The Sun. — London, England, 1865-03-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS-LAST EVENING. The Low CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a second time :—The Isle of Wight Ferry, Mumbles Railway and Pier, 'and Ventnor and Bonchurch Tramway. MILITARY HOSPITALS. Lord PANMITRE called the attention of the house to the condition of the military hospitals at Netley and Woolwich, and asked the Secretary of State for War whether the vote of £6,000 is all that is intended to be ap plied to the erection of a landing place at Netley, and also whether the hospital at Woolwich is intended for a general military hospital, or only for the use of the garrison at Woolwich. The noble lord said it was out of no disrespect to the noble earl who now administered the military affairs of the Government or the Government itself that he brought forward the subject, but his sole intention was to ascertain whether something could not be done for the improvement of military hospitals, many of which were, he might almost say, in a most disgraceful condition. The Crimean war had led to many improve ments in military matters, and nearly at its close he suc cessfully carried out a plan for the erection of the large hospital at Netley, for the purpose of superseding the i n .. conveniences that had long existed at Fort Pitt. It WAS Intended to receive there the military invalids from abroad, when they wanted their discharge. Another of the ob jects in view was the establishment of an army medical School, which would be productive of the greatest amount of good, and a third object was that It should be conducted as a general hospital. 'The site of the hospital was extremely healthy, and he did hope that something would be done to carry out on a Sufficiently commodious scale the completion of the details of Netley. He had lately visited an enormous and gigantic building which was at present going on at Woolwich, and he was informed it was intended for a large hospital. The plan seemed to him to be highly objection able ; it was laid out in blocks for wards covered with glass, and in his opinion it would be absolute cruelty to place men in them. In their own case, when any of their lordships were afflicted with illness great care was taken to • exclude from their chambers too much light ; but in the building of which he was now speaking the reverse appeared to be the case, and he could only denominate the plan of construction as the glass and glare system. He Should like to know, when the building was finished, to what purpose it was to be turned. Was it to be a general hospital ? if so, the means of access to it were altogether exceedingly inconvenient and badly placed. If it was intended only for regimental purposes then it was far beyond the wants required. He had visited the hospital at Hounslow, and although he found there a very excellent building, yet there the glass and glare principle was in full force, and curiously enough to show that the objections were well founded, he discovered the whole of the lower windows of the wards were painted dark green, to exclude the very light, which so much pains and expense had been incurred to admit. The gas fittings were of expensive design and . pattern, and some notion of the glass globes of the gas fittings might be imagined when a poor unfortunate sol dier having broken one of them , a cheque was made for five pounds five shillings for barrack damages. The gas fittings were not alone the most expensive things to be found within the buildings, as he found that a non-commissioned officer having had the misfor tune to break one of the earthenware vessels, a charge of six guineas was on that occasion made for barrack da mages. It appeared to him to be proceeding in . an en tirely mistaken course to erect buildings intended for the reception of invalided soldiers upon a plan of extravagance altogether nue:ailed for and unnecessary. He regretted he could not induce the Secretary of War to listen to his ad vice, based upon practical experience. If he did so, he would be guided in a more useful course than that of building temples for the wind. Earl DE GREY said it was but natural that the noble lord should be exceedingly anxious on the subject, espe cially as he had done so much to improve the comfort of the invalid soldier. With regard to Woolwich it was in tended for a general military hospital, and would be con ducted on the same principles as a general hospital in time of war. Some observations followed from the Duke of Cambridge, the E4rl of Ellenborough, Earl Granville, and the Earl of Longford, and the matter dropped. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS-LAST EVENING, The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. Moons took the oaths and his seat on his election for Tipperary, vacant by the resignation of The O'Donoghue. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a second time :—Brecon and Llandovery Junction Railway, Brokers' Bonds and Rents, East Somerset Extension Railways, London, Chatham, and Dover Railway (No. 1), Middlesex Indus trial Schools, Sunningdalo and Cambridge Town Railway, and Winchester Consumers' Water and Gas. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented praying for a repeal of the malt tax, the abolition or reduction of the duty on fire insurance, and with respect to the sewage of the Thames and other navigable rivers, &c. GILBERT'S ACT. Mr. MITFORD asked the President of the Poor Law Board if ho intended to bring in a bill this session to carry out the recommendations of the Poor Law Committee with respect to unions and parishes under Gilbert's Act. Mr. VILLIERS said that the Government were satisfied of the necessity that existed for the introduction of a bill on this subject, and were prepared to bring it before Par liament this session. THE LICENSING LAWS. Mr. LAWSON asked the Home Secretary whether, the house having refused to deal with the licensing laws by any private bill, he now intended to introduce any public or general measure for remedying the evils inflicted on the public by those laws ? Sir G. GREY said that after the discussion which bad taken place on this subject, the Government did not deem it desirable to introduce any bill in reference to it during the present session. GUNPOWDER MAGAZINES. Mr. Sergeant KINGLAKE asked the Under Secretary of state for War whether any alteration had been, or was about to be, made in the system of storing gunpowder in public or private magazines ? Sir G. GREY said he would undertake to answer the question. An inquiry had been made, and a committee had been appointed in reference to the subject, but the report, bad not yet been prepared, and as soon as they were received by Government, and in a position to be submitted to the house, they would be laid on the table without delay FITLMER COMMON. Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE, in the absence of Mr. Doulton, asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether his attention had been called to a provisional order of the Enclosure Commissioners for the apportionment of Fulmer-common, within twenty miles of London and four miles of the towns of Slough and Uxbridge, and whether he would undertake that all further action should be stayed in the matter until the report of the Committee on Common 'Spaces had been presented to the house ? Mr. F. PEET. said that the matter had not yet been decided on. PORTSMOUTH DOCKYARD. Mr. BAIRD asked the Secretary to the Admiralt y if he had any objectio n to la y u p on the table copies of the p l ans finally approved by the A dmiralt y for the exte nsio n of Portsmouth Dockyard ? Lord C. PAGET said it was his intention to lay on the table the copies alluded to, and place the same in the library of the house for the inspection of hon. members. CATTLE DISEASE PREVENTION. Mr. LESLIE asked whether or not Government intended to reintroduce the Cattle Diseases Prevention and Cattle, Om, Importation Bill, as amended by a select committee of the house last session ? Mr. BARING said it was not intended by Government to introduce any such bill during the present session. NATIVE ARTILLERY IN INDIA. In answer to Mr. VANSITTART, Sir C. WOOD said that considerable misapprehension prevailed on this subject. It had been considered advis able to retain a large number of the natives in India in the artillery, and that no danger was to be apprehended from the disproportion between the native and European troops. The right hon. baronet then qu oted some statistics to show that it was necessary to increase, not to reduce the number of natives employed in India, whether i n regard to the military or pol i ce f orce. THE DEFALCATIONS IN THE PATENT OFFICE. Lord STANLEY asked the Attorney-General whether the inquiry institut e d by Government into certain alleged irregularities in the accounts h of the Patent-office had been concluded ; whethet inquiryreport of the commissioners ap pointed to conduct thatewould be laid upon the table ; or, if that were considered dient, whether he was prepared to state the conclusion in o e n xP t: which they had come ; and whether it was the intention ußi ,eith of Government to or forerfohr the recovery found on such report any proceedin gs of the sums alleged to be deficient , punishment of those who might be responsible for the less. te The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—In answer to ques tion of the noble lord, I have first to state that the inquiry to which he refers was not strictly instituted by the o went. It is an inquirtj instituted by the Lord Chancellor - - and the Commissioners of Patents , in consequence of infor =don which reached them as to certain irregularities and disputes in the Patent-office, which did not in the first in stance involve any question of pecuniary defalcations. Those inquiries, conducted by gentlemen employed for the purpose, led to two reports—the first in July last, which was a preliminary report—and a second and final report in the month of January last. The inquiry, therefore, has been concluded, and I am perfectly ready to lay those re ports on the table but for two reasons which I think will appear satisfactory to the house. First, the names of certain officers employed in the Patent-office are affixed to those reports, in a matter which requires serious con- sideration as to the proper mode of dealifig with the sub ject. The whole measures to be taken in consequence nave been finally decided on. Secondly, the late Clerk of the Patents, who is the person principally concerned in the matter of these reports, complains—with or without rea son I don't know—that a considerable part of the matter comprehended in the final report, involving a large amount of pecuniary charge, he has not the opportunity which he desires to have of answering and giving explanations, which he says he is now prepared and is desirous of doing. It would therefore, I think, be felt by the house that it would be premature to lay the reports on the table until they at all events couldbe accompanied by such further ex planations and answers as the gentleman concerned may think himself able to offer. With regard to the result, I have no objection to state to the noble lord that, if the conclu sion arrived at by these gentlemen are correct, there re mains a considerable sum to be accounted for to the public by the officer to whom I have alluded. In July he paid into the Treasury, acknowledging it to be due to it as from him, the large sum of .£7,872 odd. The report then was not finally concluded, and he made it unnecessary to prosecute the steps which had been taken with a view to his displace ment by voluntarily relinquishing that office, without pre judice to his pecuniary responsibilities. If the grounds stated by the commissioners are tenable, and all the facts proved, there remains a further balance claimable of £3,100 odd. The noble lord asks what steps we propose to take. The first thing we propose to do is to wait for, and give a full consideration to, the further statements and explana tions which that gentleman may desire to make. Subject to that, it has been a matter of serious consideration on the part of the Government, whether, assuming the facts as stated to be true, they might lead to proceedings not of a civil character. Taking all these circumstances into account, and including amongst other things the fact that a good deal of the information obtained was given by the gentle man himself in answer to questions . put to him by the com missioners, and taking also into consideration other cir cumstances, it was decided that the case was not one in which it would be expedient to institute any species of cri minal prosecution ; and with regard to the other measures pointed out in the alternative of the noble lord, I am en titled to state that it is the intention of the Government to take civil proceedings to recover the whole balance of sums due by the officer to whom I have referred. MEMORIAL- OF THE OFFICERS OF THE MILI TARY S TORE DEPARTMENT. • In reply to Mr. GREGORY, The Marquis of HARTINGTON said that no memo rial sent by the officers of the Military Store Department as a body had been received ; indeed, it would be contrary to discipline to allow such a memorial. Individual statements had been received, and were still under consideration. It would be undesirable to lay such correspondence on the table, but if the hon. member wished for furtherinformation he would give it in committee on the army estimates. MR. EDMUNDS'S RETIRING PENSION. Mr. H. SEYMOUR asked whether Mr. Edmunds would receive any retiring pension until his Patent Office accounts were cleared up, and whether it would not be desirable to appoint a committee of that house to inquire into the whole matter. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had no information whatever on the matter, but he should think it would not be proper for Mr. Edmunds to receive any pension until he had discharged his liabilities. It was a question for the house itself to determine whether there should be a com mittee appointed. But, as civil proceedings were pending, he did not think it expedient that a committee of the house should take the matter into consideration. THE APPOINTMENT OF MR. BETHELL TO THE OFFICE OF READING CLERK. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE asked whether it was true that the Lord Chancellor had appointed his son to the office of Reading Clerk in the House of Lords ? (Hear.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had seen by the news papers that the Lord Chancellor, in the exercise of the pa tronage which he believed had always belonged to his office, on the vacancy taking place in the House of Lords, had ap pointed a gentleman who he believed stood in that relation to his lordship. Sir J. ELPHINST ONE then asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Lord Chancellor, having originated those proceedings against Mr. Edmunds, had not, when he was turned out of office, appointed his son ; and whether that was not a question of more gravity than that which had been brought against Lord Chelmsford at the beginning of the present Parliament? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not aware that he could add anything to what had fallen from his learned friend the Attorney-General. He understood, like that learned gentleman, that the gentleman referred to had been appointed. In reply to Mr. WHITESIDE, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had not any knowledge of the appointment of officers of the other House of Parliament, and that the Treasury had no authority with regard to the grant of their pensions. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Lord PALMERSTON appealed to hon. members who had notices on the motion to defer their motions, so as to allow the Secretary of the Navy to make his statement on he introduction of the navy estimates. ACCIDENTS ON RAILWAYS. Mr. BENTINCK proposed his motion Oil this subject. . Mr. JACKSON seconded the motion. Mr. GIBSON stated that he did not think it would be advisable for Government to take the entire management of railway affairs. After some further discussion the motion was with• drawn. WAGES .IN DOCKYARDS. Mr. FERRAND called attention to the great. inequality of wages paid in the royal and private dockyard; and con tended at some length that the employes in the former re ceived on an average 2s. per day less than the men in pri vate establishments. This, he argued, was grossly unfair, and was not compensated for by the superannuation allow- awes, as not more than three per cent. of the royal arti ficers ever lived to get any allowance at all, and even these did not survi7e more than from three to five years. All that the men asked was an increase of 6d. per day. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE supported the motion. Mr. CHILDERS, in opposing the motion, said that Mr. Ferrand had been misinformed as to his statistics, and that the increased wages which he asked in behalf of 16,000' dockyard men would entail a charge upon the country equi valent to £150,000 per annum. The position of the men in the royal dockards had been much improved of late, and the per-centage of men entitled to superannuation allow ances was much greater than that stated by Mr. Ferrand. Tho subject then dropped, and the house went into committee of supply. NAVY ESTIMATES. Lord C. PAGET—In rising to move the consideration of the navy estimates for the year 1865-6, I find, Sir, that in addition to the many interesting topics upon which this house and the public are naturally and properly desirous of receiving every information, and which information I am "----4 ...---.._._..---------- - so far i c rom indicating a loss of naval t s i t T en es gt tira h z-Latrlcompared N vith the past year, really shows a considerable iner ease. The substitution, for example, of such a vessel as the Warrior for o ne of ler number of men neees the old line-of-battle ships would render the em ployment of a much smat sary, whilst it would , cod essedly give to the navy a ' other hand, is explicP:Dle m uch more formidable ye ' ;eel.The increase in the vote for the wages, on the to some extent by the necek 'a'y additions ma ~ :lie to the number of officers, bu 't chiefly to the, muc h larger sums now expended under the head of t 4 go od conduct pay," and which it is estimate yam, i n the ensuing year be more than aon'hle tl, l e amount paid six years ago. The most invorte .nt reform s In of late by the Admiralty, howev, nec ti on with the recruiting of seamen ; and last A ev ening Lord Clarence Page was in a positio n for the first time to lay b efore the house the re,stilts°f the recently adopted systr of training _an v iew to filling up the - eacanc er, are those in coll ies occasioned in t . '"; a s ; navy by deaths and oth ar causes. During the P year 3,100 set %men eitl aer died or were dischargeeu ol and of the vacancies thus created 2,517 were fill up by boys spec iallY trained for the naval servicee This is unquesti oncjjk y a vast improvement on the ancient system or manning our fleets, and its e.. . t cellence was so well the proposal of tl of boys to be ke- appreciated a year since tha, i e Government to reduce the s t ig i c l 7) A in training from 9,000 to 7,v, - ,, - met with consic' ierable opposition. The Admiraly have, however, shown that a stock amply sutficiell" w hen taken to gether with the numbers of a ble sea ces men who are willing to quit the merchant serve I,:as been main ?tined to supply thewants of the nalli and we maTasfiume that henceforth a training B el li Ifor the navy may be regarded as a permanent ins"' tutio.n. Our -armour-plated fleet is no longer in e ln i bryo ; it has a tangible existence. At the dose ° the present year, the Secretary of the Admiralti la fork-ns us, - vi .e shall have no less than thirty arinotirt; plated ships either at sea or ready to be pu t m ay com a fission. The transformation of our nail 7j. therefore be regarded as having been already effe e w n f Four more vessels will be completed in the cours.e, i s the folio* wing year, and, independently of these, _l' o the inter ttion of the Admiralty to construct tll v ships a the Alabama class, which shall be sPe',,,4 reo2ar k a vle for their speed, and which, in the event of war, 39 ould be employed in protecting or °l c , commerce ,and harassing that of our foes. It, is i — p s s intended td construct a turret-ship on Capt. u°' — , i ,.. principle, arm, in the event of the experiment P r° l3 l, l ing successful, o them of a similar kind may preha er d , afterwards be bL'ilt• It is observable, Wild that in the construCtion of our iron-clads the tend that ency is to increase considerably the strength ci f Iv an defensive covering which , w h e n the 'Warrior or launched, was supposed to have reached its Ina log , point. The side 3 of this vessel are 23 inehes i t t ia, of which six inches are compose d of armour-rua w in the rest bein of teak. In one of the vessels 11 ? t lig course of construe lion it is proposed that al' t , bo water line the thick ness of the ship's sides shiwiiter 43 inches, of which 11 shall be iron (th e , O o od. , plating being six inches thick) and 32 /nen ° „" no va It would be presumptuous to assert that eve.', o s., we have reached a point which we shall never i r loo st but when a ship's side attains a thickness of 5. t .„ o f four feet, we can scarcely conceive the possibil,l‘ to its being still further increased. The new flee' c od be divided into five different squadrons, coPoe, of vessels varying actor ding to their strength,cota and draught of water, the first squadron bein, g a evf posed of seven of the mos: , powerful of tD e is 41 iron-clads. How long armour-plated vess e . b ie to maintain their present supremacy - it is imPos si s forol say, but we believe we may with conflden n ce , o sses s , that at the close of the present year we shaLL,rfonoci the most powerful fleet of these vess els to °world in any part either of the Old or of the New COUNTRY MARKETS• --------+- ----- _ - • - NORTHAMPTON.—MAncit 4. aN tl it t. At to-day's corn market the supply of wheat vi— ,It , i o• an average for the time of the ye ar. There vva!, A OP: demand for wheat, and while the best sorts c o- r: 0 0 ' thi late rates, inferior descriptions w ere if an ng the of the' Y lower. The supply of barley w as fair, but ra° grain was of secondary quality. NO; °l3 New white wheat, 38s to 42s ; new red, 36s to . flo lef white, 43s to 445; old red, 38s to 39s per 36 s tone. '.' o r SO for malting, 31s to 33s per qr. ; grinding, 26s to 3 ,' 6 toS e ' stone. Oats, old, 25s to 26s • new, 18s to 24s Pe" r ea , -5 , Beans, old, 36s to 40s ; new, ' 3ss to 38s per 38 stop°. 33s to 38s per 36 stone. COLCHESTER—Kuwn 4. 1 ill ,; The supply of wheat was not large, but most! vi eel , , condition; the trade was very dull, at barely dew .", prices. Fine barley short in quantity, and on aT an ge P` late rates • secondary qualities a slow sale. N° ' 3 's beans and peas. Ali 40 Wheat, white 40s 46s Beans, Mazagasula " n••;; ° sbo 56 e ssi r e d 3.'s 428 Middle an d ',S.5 5 Barley ..... •Bs 35s Peas, w hite. ........ •0 • - Oat') .2os 25s grey ..... .• • - , GRANTHAM—MARCH 4. w Old white wheat, 42s to 455; old red, 38s to 4 0 s; D 13 03;; white 42s to 445; new red, 37s to 38s per 36 stoin6s P c ,. ley for malting, 29s to 33s per qr. ; grinding, 240 pe r e. 30 stone. Oats, old, 25s to 27s ; new, 22s to 38 stop stone. Beans, old, 39s to 41s; new, 36s to 380 per Peas, 34s to 36s per 36 stone. 248 to 1 CHELMSFORD—Mane 3• goO d l'i.b This market was thinly attended ; there was tt,- „o i g ply of wheat and barley. The oat trade was Gull, 3;°o' Wheat, old white....4os 459 Peas, Partridg e ''''' .5 0 00 new . 40s 45s White" .... ....380 50 old red 39s 40s 13.iling ..... •. SO ...I new. 378 40s Dun.. ..... ..,"'•.---0 ,if 8ar1ey..... 255 32s dit'o, n ew••. .3i g . 0 Chevalier 268 338 Beans, Tick. 01 . -4 A nevi. • '350 A Grind ng ,Os 285 Malt... 6ls 67s Ilarre te kr. r . --5 33 , SO Chevalier 64s 094 •• •• Oats ABERDEEN—Macs 4. ~ „„rictit' The weather is now fresh and fine. The co L- ni ' hol - moderate, and here to-day we had a limited 6 + „,g pies. We quote all grain firm at last week's r3''-' 1,10 101. White wheat 33s Od to 37 s oat 62 u) 14 - Red wheat 31s Od to 33s Odj •'1"1b Sliel. Potato oats 16s Od to 16s 6 d 40 1 t) Common oats 15s Od to 15s 9d 1, she' Bore 19s Gd to 20s Od 5331511^;"1 00 lb. Barley 19s Od to 20s Od , 3 b 11 ° f 9,60 0). Oatmeal Flour, fine 3131: Od d d t o o 3142: Odod 113 W. s - o, ° Of ' .- KIRKCALDY—MARciI vi m ©A t Moderate supplies of all kinds of grain. rq. q" Ley brought last week's prices. Oats 6d per . te• Wheat. Barley. . od 30s Od 21s 6d 1 - Oci second.... 32s Od I 22s 8d od TIAN—. 31s Od. 21s 8d COAL M. Price per ton at the ARKET. close of the Marlcet• 6. IT S South 1110 • '''''''''''''' ' ' 1 1 1 1 g . Kenos ............... 1S u 6 Cassop ... 1 0 - .......... s Walls End Hart°P' 1 6 East Hartlepool ..... IS 5 Hartlepool ......... '" 16 9 Tunstall ... ........ 11 0 Russell's Hettort•l;;; 21: 10 6 Birehgrove araigfo.l3 Walla End Gogulit,a6 Sth.llloor Pellou 103 ; sold, 62. s. d. Davison's W. Hartley 15 0 Cowpen Hartley Walls End Hetton Lambert's W. Hartley 14 6 Carway and Duffryn Malting 22 0 Braddyll'sHetton lB 0 Tanfield Moor Butes 13 9 South Hetton Bates' West Hartley l4 6 Walls End Haswell l9 3 Walls End Riddell 16 9 Ships at marke aasn ß db ß t E h A e K m FA e l Tca .... BEvERA trineeinof the most healthful of all beverYagt 0 . " - hi etl c ° ' - t v homoeopathy was first in tr odu ced in t ° t-° elt lier s tO there mhi tractive nauf w itateh e ent r etu e ri or t ens o du b tpao e ps ob t fined n o preparat ions was to the taste or acceptable to the stonin7ool‘l"A" 0, Homeopathic dtobtain tl wti profession' 1 Ee s e n t rgl d uelle u dn c ee e umr d tasiC ee etlilan h rt e :r 1 C1:111 . , P°P: o hi: e a tillt:111.1):Iettia::: 0 8' 114:1;1 : the assistance of elaboratesu h e g t e fir , toproduce bject,maanedhinaterlye,ntitli , 81. 1..na sellre_.goetteo an article pure in its composition, sad ;t it 1 )- o> by t the perfect trituration it receives in the Prnice.:ie etn°l,4.ir F h e ro,gh, as to be most acceptable to the delw; 0 0 1° Yel'' r general use Eppa's Cocoa is distinguished ', o oot I ;it; cio ra t in g, grateful breakfast beverage, possessingt,tocl °1:1E-00" Adus aroma. Dr. Efassall, in his vro:/g, "*".„." ietyo,,' to ulteratio.:s," says -"Cocoa contains agent lfr",0000 0 portant nutritive principles—every logr edihat e ill ‘4lret' the growth and sustenance of the bociP' 0 eit'; e ; a Ag s ketC ° 0 nutritive, cocoa stands very much higher t ill ' ori lic ' or r breakfasttee ." eDepir,eflutliloendse—Twwitohteaspoonfuls of the Xk, deal IV is tin-lined lb a ~ t lb., and 1113. labelled P, A .„;.(1.3 all grocers, tonfectioners, and chemists.- l- P boiling wate_.kr olerod o°' CH .... AP ri t Births. i sail , l'eiceP. na rn — e On the sth inst., at l3rooksbY E GA GI - 1 OHARD .WL .T.4— On the sth in t Hammers *th, mi the wife of Samuel ()hart', J iv [ cl 4e°' a son. s„ at Susse_l4odigelau., ci:' JACQUES.—On the sth inst., at 4, Carolino-place' —e I S optisas,,, Bart., thir o d f a ß ug al h n t a e g r o o w f Marriages. wigiatcea Ro_s i s . --_ BARNEs.—On the 2d inst, Sir Charles tollqs4., Mrs. John Jacques, a a soo• ,toat of London. prig'or ST. JOHN—WILLIAMS.—On the 2d inst., at ggoe'auor° . Robert St. John, late Capt• 53d Begt., towoos, P,l garette, relict of the late John. llolden Wu'''. Astoael' Deaths BONIFA 11011S0' nthane (118,1:0°111eVgile14' ".—Op the 3d inst., at Towe r 0 1 1 Thomas Orf° Boniface, Esq., aged 60 60. C 10 1,119 CARTER.—On the 4th inst at Dorset -place, o a t Mr. Thomas Carter, inst•, • 10 ° - aged 69. • srille ~. CHARG artonllllll, oc.. Yoe _. n the 28th ult., at B a 92. ~,barV kshire, Thomas Charge, Esq., age goCkleP DAVIS.—On the 3d inst.,rat 2, C a rolioo - P lgee ' A O, _square, Mr. Myer Davis, aged 41. settil'o lIIND.—On the 3d inst. at Snenton, Iley'r Thomas Hind, aged 77: Strand. 112, Middlesex, — Tuesd a y , London Printed ANIW of No. and Published by VVIALI4-'ce, 140 of fa the , tShtemparde,ciPnioltntoefr, the TsTaivsoril ° 0011111 esex.—Tuesday, March 7, 1865. SPIRIT OF T: always most anxious to give—l find that on the present occasion I have another duty to perform, viz., to make some novel propositions on the construction of docks and basins for the United Kingdom, and also for the colonies. I must therefore ask the indulgence of the committee. With re gard to the naval estimates for the present year, 1865-6, there isvery little change in them. There are some items which are transferred from one vote to another, as being more properly placed, but in each case hon. gentlemen who consult the estimates will find reasons given for those changes, and also an explanatory statement attached to the votes, giving accounts of the number of officers and men, and the full pay of each class, both of officers and men. Her Majesty's Government propose that the naval estimates for the year 1865-6 shall be £10,393,321. The estimates for the current year include two supplementary estimates, which I brought in at the latter end of last session ; one being £220,000 for the purchase of two rams at Liverpool, the other a sum of £61,000 odd for additional pay of officers and petty officers of the fleet—making a gross total of Thereforet apur l O tes , c 7 ha W 4 3 ) , :e 6s to l et . t.hopresentsthose r rrams, year e, t a h wr e h r io e cf h i s am a la d: , decrease saids e ; bu o t f t otthhea have egrossexcludingbeen. esti mates theta n i - e 4 tracalinarY the additional pay y the estimates y of the which the house past granted to the navy, and taking that pay for the instead of for nine months, the decrease of the year, includ ing generosity e whole . year the coming year over the ordinary estimates es last timates for would be £116,000. I propose first of all to of v otes which have reference pay,steoan, darin allowances, victuals, e an . d me di ca l comforts of officers, me o us services are comprised in votes 1 , 2 , and 12. The vot es v to; the coming year are remarkable in this respect, that they s how an increase o ver the current y ear, alth ough we pro pose that they should bear a less number of persons. This is a circumstance which I will explain to the committee. But I must first deal with the numbers. The numberavoted for the current year were 71,950 men ; those for 1865-6 aro only 69,750, being a decrease of 2,200. The decrease is thus made.up : The decrease of the seamen of the fleet is about 700 men. There will be a decrease of officers and seamen of the coastguard of 500 men. There will be a decrease of marines on shore of 1,000 men. There will b e a decrease of civilians of 200 men. Of the latter I will only that they are aged pe rsons in the Customs, who are say being superannuated by theperann stguucaoteadandard. Whilst di supplied sapPeairinlstg;ethhaeivre t p h la is eccedsbeing e in men, we have the anomalous fact of an increase of offi cers. I propose to show the committee why we think it right to propose a decrease in the number of seamen and marines. Those hon. mem bers who may feel alarmed at this proposal—and I see my hon. friend the member for Norfolk (Mr. Bontinck) seems already somewhat alarmed at my statement—l would refer to page 116 of the estimates, where they will observe the number of ships we had in commission on Dec. 1 last, and the number in commission on Dec. lof the previous year. They will find that of sea going ships in co mm i ss i o n there is a decrease of six ; but thereare four more armour-plated in commission , and therefore,eereas I am entitled to say th a t, th oug h the numbers aro decreased, we go e on d , we ee a rn re m i i n ss f i a e c n t in in g c a r rm eas n in u g r-p o l u a r te fo d rc s e h . ip W s, e a fi n n d dthat sub stituting them for number of seamen, n but t erf-battle ships, we decrease the of thas n , cr l e w ase ill o A f s s a o n m i e ll n u f s illustrationetio ships now tb • th re e fe p r ro i po n t rton com of pl o e ffize en rs ts . the flagship commission. The Edgar, a very h fi as ne linelf i -of ship, ef 810 inen of the Channel squadron, and a proportion of one officer to 15 men ; but the Black , Prince, which is of very much greater power than the Edgar, has a complement of 720 men and an officer to every 12 men. Take again one of our large corvettes, having a complement of 275 men ; they have an officer to every nine men. But the little ironclad Enterprise, which would blow any of them out of the water, while she has only a complement of 119 men, has an officer to every seven men. These figures show that the tendency of modern changes is to reduce our complements, but to increase the number of officers. There is another and a very important reason why the increase of so many officers is proposed during the coming year. The fact is, we have found it necessary, in the absence of a proper supply of artificers, to provide a large increase of engineers, who are themselves excellent workmen andable to repair our engines. With regard to the coastguard on shore, we propose a reduction of 500 men. Though admi rably efficient, it is a very costly force, and we thought it was our bounden duty to make inquiries of the Commis sioners of Customs whether the force was required for the protection of the revenue. They had made a prelimi nary report to the effect that some reduction of that force might be made as far as the interests of the revenue were concerned. As to the coastguard afloat, every one knows the origin of this force ; there was a time when we had no reserves, and when alarm existed on the part of the country for the proper defence Of our shores. Hence it arose that this force of 11 ships was attached to various ports. The services which they have performed are inestimable. They have broken down the barrier which used to exist between the navy and the merchant service, and have provided men for our fleet. They have, in fact, been, I may say, one of the main causes of the great success of our Royal naval reserve. Having fulfilled that duty, there is no longer the necessity to keep up so large a force, since we possess that magnificent reserve of nearly 17,000 now enrolled. We propose, therefore, to make a small and gradual reduction in the force—not to an ex tent to impair its efficiency, but such as we think is due to the circumstances of the present day. There is an other reason why we may now somewhat reduce that force, and that is, we are looking forward to be enabled to replace those useless line-of-battle ships by armour-plated ships ; and the moment we can carry that out, the crews will necessarily be reduced in numbers. With regard to the marines, we propose to reduce them by 1,000 men. This is also a consequence of the reduction of the complements of our new ships of war. The real value of a marine depends on the amount of sea service which he goes through. If you have more marines than can go through their tour of sea duty, they lose all the characteristics of the sailor. We may now safely reduce the force by 1,000 men, and still keep it up in its integrity, and allow all to take their proper tour of sea duty. With regard to boys, we propose to maintain the same number. The reason why we are in creasing our votes while we are reducing our numbers is due to several causes. First of all, we are happily improv ing the position and improving the conduct of our sailors and marines, and consequently we are obliged to pay a much larger sum for good-conduct pay. In 1859, when we had many more thousands of men than we have now, we took £25,900 for good-conduct pay to the marines ; but in the year 1865-66 we take £52,628 for the same service. (Hear, hear.) Another reason is, that while in 1861 we had one man out of every seven belonging to the gunnery class receiving additional pay for having become expert gun ners, in the year 1864 we had one man in three. That is another source of increase. There was another cause of small additional expense, viz., the high price of butchers' meat. It is true that, on the other hand, the cost of all farinaceous food is less than last year, but the difference of the two items still left a balance on the side of additional expenditure. Another source of in crease in the estimates was the additions which had from time to time been made in the full pay of nearly every class in the navy. The house had granted in six years an increase in the full pay of officers, seamen, and marines, to the amount of £26B,736—that is to say, the same number of men would now cost the country £268,736 more than six•years ago. In 1859 a seaman cost £64 ss. 7d. with all collateral expenses ; but in the year 1865 he costs £74 ss. 3d. A marine in 1859. cost £5B 125. 611, but in 1865 he costs £6l2s. aid. Let me advert to a subject of very great importance to the welfare of our navy—viz., the system adopted for replenishing the navy with boys brought up and educated in the service, and becoming in due time the best seamen in the navy. In the year 1863-4 the average number of blue jackets, excluding every class but the fine fellow who goes aloft to the yard arm and reefs the topsails, but including blue jacket petty officers, was 24,500. In that same year, the discharges from all causes, including deaths and desertions, amounted to 310. During the year the number of boys was 2,517, leaving, therefore, about 600 men to be entered from the merchant service ; and I find that there were actually entered that year of seamen from the shore, 594. That makes up the whole waste in the men. That number of 2,517 boys who were rated came from a stock of 9,000 boys. Last year I proposed a reduction from 9,000 to 7,000 boys, and I remember that my right hon. friend (Sir J. Pakington) expressed some alarm lest that should be insufficient. We reduced the num ber of boys by 2,000; but, instead of entering them at a tender age, we have increased the age for entering, and given the .whole of that time for instruction in seamen's duties. Before that alteration boys were entered, and many of them became officers' servants, and they cost a great deal of time, and did not get through their instruction so quick as they do now. We find they learn their seaman's duties quicker, and are able% pass up sooner into the fleet. We propose that every boy coming into the navy shall pass through the training-ship, and that there shall be none, with a very few exceptions, who have not gone through the preliminary instruction. Wo expect that, having now 3,000 boys in training-ships, being an increase of 500, to rate up to seamen about 2,000 annually. That is a considerable reduc tion, but, on the other hand, the right hon. baronet and other hon.members must be reminded that we are looking forward to a small but gradual reduction in the number of seamen in consequence of the number of armour ships and ships with smaller complements. We are substituting skilled labour for what I may almost call brute force. Every year we are increasing the number of gunnery classes, and what we are losing in numbers we are gaining in skilled labour. We expect this 2,000 will be sufficient, because I I shall be able to show that there is less waste, as desertions are increasing, and the men are becoming more and more attached to the service. The increase in our training-ships has led to an increase in the cost of the boys ; and I find that, whilst boys in the current year cost £45 2s. per head, the cost for 1865-6 will be £4B 18s., being an increase of £4 per head. I come now to the scientific vote. There is a new item in this vote which I think will be approved by the committee. The education going on in the navy and dock yards under the Admiralty has absolutely necessitated the appointment of an officer as Director of Education, and, therefore, with the consent of the Treasury, we have ap pointed a well-known gentleman, who has been for many years connected with the Admiralty, to that office, at a salary of £964. We take a considerably larger sum for the school of naval architecture, which I may say is working admirably. We hear the best accounts of the progress of the pupils, and that some of them are coming in from the private trade. I shall be happy to give more information if required, but I am bound to say that my estimate for the current year were not sufficiently high, and were exceeded by the small excess of £2,200. The next vote is that for superintendents of dockyards. There is no change in that vote, nor need I make any remarks upon it further than to state that in a few days there will be a new proposal laid upon the table as to the form of taking these votes. It is pro posed, instead of spreading the cost of the personnel of the dockyard and expenditure as at present, to put them all together in one vote. The same with regard to the victual ling establishment ; so that in this manner the house will be able to see clearly what the whole cost of our dockyards is. We are endeavouring to carry outthe recommendations of the committee of 1861 as to dockyards, and *we are anxious to lay on the table full accounts, showing the expenses of building, repairing, and maintaining our ships, and likewise the expenses of manufactured articles which are made in the dockyards. This year we propose to go a step further, and to lay on the table of the house a general balance-sheet, showing the value of the naval stores at the commencement of the year, the operations during the year, and the balance at the end of the year. I may say that I for one shall not be satisfied until we are enabled to lay upon the table of this house annually a regular debtor and creditor account, not only as regards the dockyards and ships, but also with respect to everything connected with the expenditure of the navy. (Hear, hear.) I can assure my hon. and learned friend the member for Lincoln that the taunt of supineness on my part since I have been in office, and of forgetting the earnest desire I expressed when out of office that these accounts should be shown, is unmerited. Personally I should not have thought it necessary to answer such accusations, but they have given pain to many able men in the department to which I belong; and I think it was hardly generous, considering the progress that has been made, that we should be taunted with su a p l in ue e l n ess es . s ; i hl n u t t h ni i to s wwi m ail a p t p t b e er r o . I believe in a short time w e shall be able to place on th e table the papers to which I ahaves e v alludedfor accou n t s un l ess t h ey are really correc t are worse than w a well to the gu gr ar e d at aga sh in ip s b t u un ildin du g e ht ch o fo P : ra th t e io d n o s. cky F ard irs' .t t rr h h e ree amount s the e l a w bo e ur ask a nf for d t a l h s e o y t e h a e r I s B t 6 o s r o s f b c:r a th d i e s e s r e e rv as :ce in is sh 7 p , b 9 u 3 i o l , d 6 i s4 ng . , sc F u o ., r ef th; present 6oo.79 ra e th ar er th l e e r s o s was voted. for this service £3,390,833. Therefore there will than one-fourth being actually due to shipbuilding in the present and likewise in the coming year. For the first time I have laid on the table of the house a very interest ing paper, being a complete programme of works for the coming year, which my noble friend the Duke of Somerset was anxious should be laid before the house. For the in formation of the public, therefore, I may state that in the year 1865-6 we propose to construct 15,115 tons of ship ' ping ; whilst in the current financial year we expect to have constructed 18,952, being a decrease of tonnage propor tionate to the decrease in ourestimates. We have altogether 30 complete or in the process of construction ; and I may state with some satisfaction that the whole of them, with one exception, will be completed and ready for sea, if necessary, by the close of the present calendar year. The exception is a large ship called the Northumberland. I must state in public it is not creditable to the Millwan Shipbuilding Company that this ship has not been com pleted with others, her sister ships, which were ordered at the same time from another firm. For while all the other ships ordered about the same time will be ready about the end of this year, there is little prospect of that ship being ready till the autumn of next year. I should feel more uncomfortable about this if it did not appear that during the last few months we have reason for being better satis fied with the progress of the ship than before. Every one of these ships has been described by me at various times, with the exception of two. Of these the Royal Alfred is one of the five line-of-battle ships which it was decided to armour-plate. She was the most backward of all, and ac cordingly we find that some alterations have been made in that ship without any great cost, which caused great im provements, both as a sea-going ship and also in regard to her defensive qualities. Those that are armour-plated throughout have a considerable tendency to pitch, and it is therefore desirable as far as possible to lighten their ends. Accordingly, instead of plating this ship all round with 41 inch plates, we are reducing the area of the armour-plate fore and aft, and almost to the water-line, and increasing the plates from 41 to 6 inches in thickness. This will in crease the cost of the armour-plates by about £15,000, besides additional dockyard works. The only other vessel I have the honour to describe to the House is a small one of very peculiar construction. It is upon a principle which may bo described as propelling by volumes of water thrown out by means of a powerful water-wheel within the ship— in fact, propelling the ship by the action of water against water. If successful, it will have great properties for turn ing the ship round, as it were, upon a pivot. Whether we shall be able to attain the same speed as with vessels of the ordinary construction lam not prepared to say. We were disposed to give it a trial, and accordingly the Waterwitch was the vessel selected. Sir J. PAKINGT ON—ls it a screw ? Lord C. PAGET—No, it is not a screw. It is propelled by a jet of water thrown out from the side of the ship. Our armour fleet may be classified as follows: We have seven ships of a very great speed, but with a very great draught of water, and therefore they cannot be docked out of this country. These form our first squadron. Sir J. PAKINQTON—Does that include the Defence and the Resistance ? Lord C. PAGET—No ; I had better read the list. Our first squadron consists of the Warrior, the Black Prince, the Achilles, the Minotaur, the Agincourt, the Northumber land, and the Bellerophon. These are vessels of great speed and great length. The second squadron consists of the Lord Clyde, the Royal Oak, the Prince Consort, the Ocean, the Caledonian, the Royal Alfred, and the Lord Warden. These are less ships, and are of smaller speed. The third squad ron contains the Zealous, the Hector, the Valiant, the De fence, and the Resistance, making altogether 19 ships of the line. The next class are the frigates, corvettes, and gun - boats—the Favourite, the Research, the Enterprise, the Pallas, the Frequent, the Vixen, and the Waterwitch. We now come to the four ships that will be serviceable for coast defences—the Royal Sovereign, the Prince Albert, the Scorpion, and the Weasel. I will not enter at present into the question of turret versus ironside, because I think it will be better to discuss that when the vote is taken. My object is to show what we propose to do in shipbuilding during the coming year. I have named the Bellerophon, the Lord Warden, the Lord Clyde, and the Pallas. lam now bound in justice to the dockyard establishment to state to the committee one fact. They will remember that this time last year I describedthese ships as being just laiddown. I am now able to state that these ships have all been built in the course of the present year. It is satisfactory, there fore, to know that, instead of occupying three or four years in construction, when the:mode of shipbuilding might change, we are able to complete such vessels in twelve months. We propose as soon as the Bellerophon is out of the dockyard at Chatham to build with some points of difference a sister ship, which wiLll, I think, strike the house with what we are coming to in the way of the defensive plating of ships. The thickness of the Warrior's united skins is this—she is 5-1 of iron, and 18 inches of wood, being a total of 231. inches. That is the thickness of the Warrior. The Her cules, which is to succeed the Bellerophon, will have a thickness of 9 inches iron with 10 inches of wooden back ing, 11 inner iron skin, 22 inches of wood inside that, and then kof an inch of inner skin of iron. In other respects she will be similar to the Bellerophon. As regards her armaments, I can only say she will be armed with the newest. kind of guns. In the next place, we propose to build an armour-plated ship at Pembroke, which will differ from the construction recommended by the committee. We .propose to build an armour-plated low-decked corvette ; she will be a vessel of 3,000 tons, with a draught of water of only 16 feet, with thin screws. We propose to give her at the water-line 6 inches of iron and 10 inches of wood, with an. inner skin of I inches of iron. Therefore, she will not be so well protected as a heavier ship, but still she will be a very powerful vessel, and we hope that she will be able to carry eight of those large guns. Our further ope rations in the dockyards will be to commence the building of four swift ships, not armour-plated, but trusting en tirely to their speed and their armament--vessels after the pattern of the famous Alabama, only of an improved form. Three of these are now under construction, and we pro pose in the present year to commence four more. These vessels are entirely for the protection of our commerce, and they will be constructed of wood. In addition to this, there is a sum of £120,000 included in the votes, part of a SUM of £240,000 on account of ships to be built by con tract. This is for the construction of one or more ships. The first proposal I have to make is, that we should en deavour, if possible, to construct ships upon Capt. Coles's principle with real sea-going capabilities. Hitherto we have not succeeded in constructing a thoroughly sea-going vessel of that kind ; and I cannot deny that Captain Coles will have considerable difficulties to overcome in constructing such a ship upon the turret principle. Every one knows that a sea-going ship must have masts and rigging; on the other hand, the turret must be in the centre of the ship, and in order to secure a clear range for the gims there ought to be no obstruction at either extremity. However, lam confident that Capt. Coles will be able to overcome the difficulty. He has been directed by the Admiralty to prepare plans, and every assistance has been given to him. What is proposed is that, when the de signs are approved of, the Admiralty shall invite tenders for their construction by contract. We are also desirous of constructing small armour-plated ships for the defence of our harbours upon the turret principle. He entered very fully into Vote 11 , for new works, buildings, machinery repairs,and d posed to ea dl specifying in what ma nner th e G overnmen t - with the recommendations of the com mittee of last year. The amount of this vote was £527,985, showing a real increase over that of last year of £30,000, the nominal increase, including transfer from other votes being £53,000. He explained the intentions of the Go' vernment regarding the vote for the Malta Docks, conse navy was unpopular ; th a t quen t upon the visit of the Duke of Somers e t, an d th e ex penditure for a dock at the French Creek. In conc l us i on, he took notice of reports that the there was a difficulty in manning th e navy, and especially in obtaining continuous-servicemen, and stated facts which negatived these reports, and showed that men were attached to the service. He read returns of the crimes and punish ments of the; navy (which he proposed to lay annually on the table), showing their diminution and the moral im provement of the service. Sir J. PASINGT ON said that, although the noble lord had gone into considerable details in his long statement he had not removed the desire which he had expressed to the noble lord on a former occasion for certain explana tions with regard to the actual condition of the navy. The noble lord had boasted that not even the shortcomings of his department had been concealed, and he hoped that would prove to be the case. But in the meantime there were one or two statements made by the noble lord which demanded immediate notice. He wished, in the first place, to refer to the proposed reduction in the coast guard service ; and, considering that the coastguard ser-, vice was the first reserve, he could not but think the reduc tion of 500 men was a very imprudent step. The noble lord also boasted of the state of the men in the navy ; but he could not deny that the best source from which they:could recruit the navy was from the boys who were trained for the service, and he therefore regretted there was a reduc tion in the number of boys. There was another important question with reference to the manning of the navy, to which he wished to direct attention. What at that moment was the state of the reserves of the navy? The noble lord told them that, after manning the Victoria, they had 700 men on hand as an available reserve to man another ship of equal size. The noble lord also said that there were in the several ports 1,500 men and boys. [Lord C. PAGET—SO we have now.] He was very glad to hear it, the more so as the statement was inconsistent with theinformation he had re ceived; and if the fact were so, he was surprised that the noble lord should have passed over a fact of so much im portance. Lord C. PAGET explained that he had unintentionally misrepresented the matter. The fact was that they had 1,225 men, exclusive of boys, making in the aggregate about 1,500 men and boys. Sir J. PAKINGTON said he would now turn to a sub ject of extreme importance, viz., the construction of docks, with reference to which he sincerely congratulated the Ad miralty on the wisdom of the decision at which they had arrived respecting the Malta dock; and he thought great credit was due to the Duke of Somerset for having taken the trouble to visit Malta to judge of the case for himself. It was satisfactory to them on the Opposition side that what they had all along recommended was to be carried into effect. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the dock at Bermuda, it was impossible to shut their eyes to contingencies that might arise; and in view of such contingencies no censure would be too strong for any Government which neglected the proper precautions for meeting them. It had been stated by the committee who had inquired into the subject that it was essential to construct a dock at Bermuda or Halifax. The noble lord said there were practical difficulties in the way of constructing a dock at Bermuda. But how did the Admiralty propose to overcome those difficulties ? The noble lord told them the Admiralty were to send somebody out to inquire. But why had not that somebody been sent out months ago ? His hon. friend the member for Stafford had asked a very pertinent question of the noble lord, namely, when it was intended to carry out those works He trusted that in future years they would see larger votes of money asked for those purposes, and, as those works were to be undertaken, that they would be carried out with promptness and spirit, instead of being extended over a number of years. He now came to a most important ques tion : whether the condition of the navy was not at that moment such that the country could not enter into a mari time war. He approached the question of the national de- fences in no party spirit, as hewas sure that the members of the Government were as sincerely desirous of rendering them efficient as any member on his own side of the house. But the real question was whether the Government had exercised due caution and discretion, and availed them selves of the means at their disposal, and to the extent which it was the imperative duty of every Government to do. He would not be acting fairly towards the noble lord if, from what he had heard, he did not declare to him that he was not free from alarm. During the last five years the Admiralty had not availed themselves of the liberal grants which Parliament had placed at their disposal, so as to be in a condition at that moment to state that they had done all they could have done within the period to which he had referred. He had on a former occasion expressed his doubts to the noble lord, and asked him for certain explana tions, and the noble lord preferred that he should postpone his questions until he had made his statement. The total amount of the navy estimates for the last five years, and which the House of Commons had voted almost with out question, was £57,794,622. Was it true, as he heard rumoured on all sides, that notwithstanding this enormous sum, if England was involved in a maritime war, she could not send an effective fleet to sea ? (Hear, hear.) He knew the gravity of. the statement, and no one would rejoice more than himself if the doubt could be removed. Ho was aware that they were passing through a period of transition in naval affairs, and there fore he thought the Admiralty should not have hesitated to try any experiments which promised to give increased effi ciency to the navy. The first point upon which he wished for explanation was with reference to the two ships con structed by the present Admiralty, the Defence and the Resistance. One of the first requisites in a man-of-war was speed. The Defence and the Resistance were slow ships, and, until lately, he believed want of speed to be their only defect ; but he was now informed that the construction of those ships was so defective that if they were wounded in their unprotected parts, either fore or aft, instead of being immersed so many inches deeper, they would be unable to float. He wished to have an answer to that question. He was told that those vessels had been built in opposition to the advice of the Chief Constructor of the navy—of the Comp troller. Was that the truth or not ? The large unfinished ships,the Northumberland, the Agincourt, and the Minotaur, were plated all round. He had always doubted the wisdom of plating armour ships from stem to stern. The Admiralty had been warned of the danger, and now, after these ships had cost enormous sums of money, they, finding out their error, were proceeding to incur further expense by taking that armour off. A still more serious matter was the case of the ships of the Caledonia class. This class of vessels involved ten men-of-war, which had cost an enormous sum of money. They were the Caledonia, the Royal Oak, the Prince Consort, the Lord Clyde, the Lord Warden, the Royal Alfred, the Zealous, the Hector, and the Valiant. All of these but the Hector and the Valiant were wooden ships, plated from stem to stern. Only two wooden ships, the Royal Oak and the Prince Consolt, and the two iron ships, the Hector and the Valiant, had ever been in com mission. On the subject of those ships Admiral Dacres had presented a report to the Admiralty. The Admiralty had been asked to produce that report, and the noble lord had declined to do so, on the ground that it was contrary to all precedent. He (Sir J. Pakington) and the public were afraid that the objection to producing that report was because Admiral Dacres had stated that those ships were not fit to go to sea. The fact was that, in spite of the experience afforded by the French navy, and of the warnings they had received, the Admiralty had gone on in the most erroneous course of building these wooden ships, and plating them with iron from stem to stern. He had heard it stated that when Admiral Dacres went to sea with the Channel fleet, he was warned not to take those vessels out in heavy weather, because they had been con structed so inefficiently that they were not fit to go to sea. He (Sir J. Pakington) believed that none of them would be able to weather a gale of wind in the Atlantic ; in proof of which he would cite the case of the Prince Consort, which had nearly foundered last year in the Irish Channel. The Government had now taken the alarm, so that the Royal Alfred and the Zealous were now only to be partially plated. The Admiralty were now in this painful dilemma, that if they plated ships all round they were not fit to go to sea, and if they were only partially plated they were not fit to go into action. The Royal Alfred, when fit be put into commission, would be a burlesque upon a first-class iron-plated ship. The Admiralty had not given Captain Coles's invention of the turret mode of arming our ships a fair trial. It was not creditable to the Admiralty that they should have remained for the noble lord to come down that day and,say that they were now intending to build a sea going ship on the turret principle. If they intended to try the principle, why did they not begin long ago ? (Hear.) He complained that the Royal Sovereign was not a proper ship for the trial of the invention of Captain Coles ; but at the same time he would like to know why the Royal Sove reign had since been put out of commission. Suspicions widely and generally entertained that there was a secret influence at the Admiralty opposed to the trial of the turret principle, and that finding the experiments were successful they paid off the crew—a crew that would not so easily be got together again. He was afraid that the most competent and scientific men in the difficult art of shipbuilding had been gradually expelled the Admiralty. He alluded to Mr. Watts, the late chief constructor—than whom a more competent man never held office—Mr. Peak, Mr. Oliver Lang, and Mr. Bethel], not one of whom was at the Admiralty now. They were succeeded by Mr. Reed, a clever man, who might have acquired great distinction if he had been dealt with in a proper manner, but to whom and to the country the Admiralty had acted with great in justice and indiscretion by placing him in his present position. His first works were the Enterprise and the Research. The former was reported to be a good sea-boat but so imperfectly clad in iron, and in some respects on so mistaken a principle, that if she went into action she would be destroyed directly. As to the Research, the ship by which Mr. Reed wished to be judged, he believed her cap tain, though a brave sailor, was glad when on a trip from Plymouth to Portsmouth he arrived safe in port. In fact, he had heard the Research was not safe as a sea-going boat, and that it was difficult to get a ship's crew to go to sea in her. He believed the Research was as great a failure as ever was launched. He did not say Mr. Reed might not build a good ship ; but this he did say, that in the present state of his experience the Admiralty was trifling with the interests of England if they allowed him to do any more. When they wanted to send a fleet across the Atlantic, he advised them to go to such men as Mr. Watts and Mr. Lang, and not to trust to a man, whatever his ability, whose first effort was a vessel in which he would challenge the Government to dare to send any man to sea in heavy weather. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. ELPHINS T ONE strongly condemned an Admi ralty which, having received a larger sum of money than any that had been granted in modern times, had squandered it on vessels which it was notorious to any sea-faring man were not capable of keeping the sea. The School of Naval Architecture had been dispersed, and many able gentlemen forced out, and they had got the navy into the hands of a man whose first production was an abortion. The Admi miralty had taken care not to produce Admiral Dacres's report, because he believed that report would damn them and their policy. (Hear, hear.) There was, however, the concurrent testimony of officers and men, that with the exception of the Warrior, the Black Prince, the Defence, and the Resistance, none of the iron-clad fleet were sea-worthy. He also complained of the discouragement given to Capt. Coles and the turret principle. The noble lord told them that the Admiralty had resolved upon the construction of a class of fast wooden cruisers for the pro tection of our commerce. Well, he would not assert that they could get rid of wood entirely, but he admitted that since the burning of the Bombay his ideas respecting the relative merits of wood and iron had been very much modi fied. It was quite certain there was not the same chance of fire on board an iron vessel. At the same time, all these ships ought to be fitted out upon the cupola principle. In the next place, he must express his regret that the repair ing and up-keeping of our ships seemed to be entirely neglected. The fact was, there was a great want of sagacity in the Comptroller's office. Ho earnestly hoped the Government would not carry out the proposal to do away with the small dockyards. At Portsmouth they were only going to expend £30,000 this year, when they might easily spend £500,000 if the works were quickly approved of. There was to be no expenditure at all at Halifax, and yet Halifax was perhaps the most important point they ought to be at work at. There was a creek there in which a most efficient dockyard might be constructed. Ho con gratulated the department upon the determination to make the French Creek the site of the new dock at Malta. His next complaint was that seamen were discharged into hulks instead of being housed in barracks. And then he had to complain that the pay officers in the navy had not been as yet properly adjusted, and that they were not dealt with, either as regarded their pay or their periods of leave of absence, on the same liberal principle as officers of the army. He likewise advocated the establishment of a Naval College, which should be open to both the Royal and mer cantile marines. The noble lord had created a new class of warrant officers who were called chief warrant officers ; but it was very strange that, out of 1,200 warrant officers, only 55 had been promoted to the higher class, and he could not at all understand on what principle they had been selected. Atter remarking that the men in the naval reserve were not properly drilled, the hon. member concluded by saying that he would defer his other observations until the various votes came before the house. Mr. SEELY took occasion to justify the statement he had made on a previous night, that certain ships had boon repaired at too great an expense, as well as his remarks . on the cost of converting timber, and on the dockyard ac counts, which, he contended, had been drawn up in a form that defeated Parliamentary control. Sir W. MILES said a groat catalogue of grievances had been brought before the house ; but one had not been ad verted to which he hoped would be considered by the Ad miralty —namely, the exclusion of widows of engineers from pension. On the motion of Sir M. PETO, the Chairman was ordered to report progress. The Common Law Courts (Fees) Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. M. GIBSON obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend the Law of Partnership. The house adjourned at a quarter-past 12 o'clock. public Press has this misfortune, tha T t l i x t E h g aTs to ne notice subjects while yet in an imma ture and half developed state. A statesman can wait till the whole evidence upon which a judgment must be formed is fully before him; he can take any time he pleases to sift and consider it, and then pronounce a dear and well-considered judgment, interspersed, it may be, with severe reflections on the hasty criticisms of the newspapers. We enjoy no such advantage. As soon as a subject becomes public property our readers expect us to throw upon it all the light in our power, and this duty becomes very difficult and demands large and charitable allowance when our information is, as in the case we are about to enter upon, uncertain and incom plete. -Thiraours have been for some time circulated castingimputation and even reproach on the conduct of persons whose elevated position and important duties, though they must not for a moment protect them from inquiry, ought at any rate to shield them from too ready suspicion. Except what was stated by the Attorney-General last night in reply to Lord Stanley, we are in no condition to aver anything with certainty, but it will perhaps be convenient to state the outlines of what is said to have oc curred, ',guarding ourselves in the most explicit manner against being supposed to give cre dence to all that may be alleged before we have heard such statements as may be made on be half of the parties inculpated. It appears, then, that since the month of July last an inquiry h&c; been prosecuted at the Patent-office into the con duct of a gentleman who has been employed for many years in the public service as Clerk of the Patent-office and Clerk of the House of Lords. What were the causes that led to this investigation we are not told, but the result appears to have been that Mr. Edmunds was found to be indebted to the Treasury in a sum of from £7,000 to £B,OOO, and that this sum was, after such finding, paid over by him in liquidation of this demand. A second inves tigation has since been held, which is not yet wholly concluded, and the result of this investigation, unless Mr. Edmunds can succeed in overthrowing its validity, is that the public have a further claim upon him for some £9,000 more. We are not informed of the precise manner in which these debts became due ; we are not informed, nor do we know, what the system of check, account, and audit can be under which a Clerk in a Public Office can be enabled during a course of years to receive and retain such large sums of money without interference and without suspicion. We certainly were under the im pression that as much care was taken to secure the receipt of money into the public Exchequer as to prevent its expenditure except for just and lawful purposes. This must form one subject of inquiry in a case presenting many aspects well worthy of consideration. It would seem, in the absence of all information to the contrary, that a Clerk or Ac countant receiving public money, and neither pay ing it over nor accounting for it, is within the provisions of the Statute of Embezzlement, and it is clear that the payment of money in satisfaction of the sum so withheld can in no degree alter the nature of the offence, though it may very properly extenuate its punishment. We gather this to be the Attorney-General's opinion, for he states that after much consideration it has been resolved, not that Mr. Edmunds is innocent, but that it is unnecessary to prosecute him. The propriety of this decision, which has on the first aspect of the case the appear ance, which we admit may be removed on further inquiry, of compounding a prosecution for felony, will also deserve a careful investigation. It is noto rious that notwithstanding the confession of im proper conduct involved in the payment by Mr. Edmunds of upwards of £7,000, and the further charge against him of having received and not ac counted for £9,000 more, he has been permitted by the House of Lords to retire upon a pension of £BOO a year. It is abundantly clear that no such pension ought to have been granted to a person relinquish ing office under such charges as have been preferred and substantiated against Mr. Edmunds. A pen sion is a reward, not for service merely, but, as everybody knows, for good and faithful service. Another head of inquiry must be as to the granting of this pension : whether it was granted with full knowledge of the circumstances under which the clerkship became vacant ; if so, how it came to be granted at all ; if not, how this necessary know ledge came to be kept back from the Committee of the House of Lords by whom the pension was granted. The Lord Chancellor has, it appears, ap pointed his second son, or rather, as the Attorney- General phrases it " a person who stands towards him in that relation," to the place vacated by Mr. Edmunds. This seems to be made a ground of im putation, but we do not exactly gather for what reason ; for, as we understand, nothing is alleged against the character of the gentleman who has received the appointment, and we know no reason why the son of a Lord Chancellor should be ex cluded by that relationship from any public office for which he may be fit. Here we would willingly close the list of subjects requiring investigation, but there is yet another subject which cannot be pasSed over in silence. It is alleged on his behalf, though even if true it may probably be considered rather as an aggravation than an extenuation of his offence, that Mr. Edmunds received his present office on con dition that a considerable portion of the salary should find its way into other hands than his own. We notice this statement, which has not yet been brought be fore Parliament, not as one to which we are disposed to give implicit credence, but as one which cannot wholly be passed over. If this statement, traced to Mr. Edmunds himself, is false, it cannot be too speedily or too peremptorily refuted ; if it be true, it cannot be too severely condemned. The characters of our high judicial officers are, above all things, public property ; it is of the last importance to every one, not only that the fountain of justice should itself be pure, but that it should imbibe no taint by the contamination of the channels through which it passes to the public. Those who fill these high offices are entitled to the fullest conlideration of the diffi culties which beset the execution of their duty. The presumption is all in their favour; they are not likely to go wrong from any evil motives, and still less likely to go wrong from want of sound judgment or knowledge of affairs. But they are, after all, our fellow-subjects, and when the slightest cloud of sus picion is,thrown upon their conduct they must be pre pared to clear themselves with even greater com pleteness than the poorest and meanest among us. We have every reason to suppose they will be able to do so, and have only discharged our duty as careful observers of passing events in calling atten tion to a question on which the public will naturally desire the most complete information. POST.—The publication of the Navy Estimates a fortnight since prepared the House of Commons for the most important item of information given to it last evening by the Secretary of the Admiralty. The estimates for the forthcoming year show a re duction of upwards of £300,000 on those of the year which now terminates. At any time an announce ment of a reduction of expenditure is received with satisfaction ; but the progressive decrease during the past three years in the demands made by the Government for the maintenance of the navy affords special grounds for self-congratulation. The complete revolution effected a few years since in the art of building vessels of war by the introduc tion of the system of armour-plating rendered it necessary for Great Britain, in common with every maritime Power, to rebuild her navy at a cost which, measured by the experience of the past, was quite unparalleled. The ordinary estimates of four years ago, large though they were, were still further increased by supplemental votes, and the House of Commons, on the eve of a prorogation, was called upon to grant additional supplies to meet a want whose existence the most rigid economists did not venture to deny. At length, however, the want has been provided for, and the steady diminu tion in the total of the expenditure anticipated by the Navy Estimates furnishes the most convincing proof that the great and expensive changes which the recent improvements in the science of naval warfare rendered necessary have at length been effected. The policy of this country, as is well known to all the world, is not aggressive. We would willingly dispense with a fleet of ironclads if we could only be satisfied that no foreign State would take advantage of our weakness. But our insular position, the comparatively small extent of our European possessions, and the number and hn portance of our colonies and dependencies, render it essential to the security of our independence that we should maintain an unquestioned supremacy on the high seas. The English Channel separates us from the Continent ; it is as it were a line of forti fications by which our territory is defended, and we cannot evade the responsibility of keeping those for tifications efficiently manned. The Channel fleet, it may be said, does nothing but rove from port to port. The circumstance that a sword remains sheathed does not necessarily prove that it is use less to its owner. The knowledge that it can be drawn if required confers a protection no less great than the most skilful use of the blade itself. In opening his statement the Secretary of the Admi ralty addressed his observations to the votes to be taken for the number of seamen and marines to be employed in the navy during the forthcoming year. That number, it appears, will be decreased to the extent of 2,200, although the amount required for their wages will be increased by £16,000. This circumstance admits, however, of easy explanation. One of the principal results which have flowed from the substitution of armour plated vessels for wooden frigates and ships of the line has been a diminution in the number of seamen and marines ' and an increase in the number of officers required for each ship, and it consequently follows that a decrease in the aggregate number to the extent mentioned in THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 7, 1865 'HE PUBLIC JOURNALS Sa t , Jiro C„ kri 4 1 , 1 L 44: