The Sun. — London, England, 1852-05-25 00:00:00

Poor -law Board did was simply to issue to those Parishes rules and regulations for the relief of the poor, reserving at the same time that power over the local °Moors which was necessary to their very indepen dence, bat not venturing to break throueh the c mstitu taco established under those local cots. Lth ) Poor-law Board was to exempt places under loud Acta from these rules and regulation, under what pretence °odd that Beard be maintained at all for the supervision of the boards of guardians? For the reasons he had steted ho trusted the House would not assent to the motion of the Noble Lord, seeing that the Noble Lord had made out to case in support of it. Sir G. PECHELL said the Right Honourable Gen tleman (Sir J. Trollope) had attempted to throw doubts Von the statements of the Noble Lord, and had read letters from certain discontented persons, whom he called the " parish," an d th en h e sa id th e parishes in question were demanded to be relieved from the control of the vestry. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had failed to show anything like discontent among the in habitants of those parishes w ith the existing mode of Government. The conduct pursued by the ,Right Honourable Gentleman in reference to this question Was monstrous. The Right Hon. Gentleman had re 'Plied to the Noble Lord just as if' the Noble Lord had made the motion before the House for party purposes. Nothing could be more unfair than that, for the Noble Lord, 'he (Sir George Pechell) and those with whom they acted, had been fora length of time pressing upon different Governments to give boards of guardians that control over their expenditure which they ought to heve; and be contended that from 1837 to March, 1852, with one exception, no motion had been made in that House in regard to the management of the poor under local Acts, with a view merely to embarrass the Government for the time being. He warned the Right Hon. Baronet that if the system of interference with towns under the opera tion of local Acts was continued, it would cause such an amount of remonstrance, that sooner or latter redress would be inevitable. It was within his own knowledge that in the parish of Alverstoke, although it had been shown by the Poor-law Inspectors themselves that it was exceedingly well managed, the Poor-law Board had inflicted on that parish such rules and regulations that it required a lawyer and a special pleader to understand them. Having called the attention of the House to the various reports on the subject, he trusted that the motion of the Noble Lord would be successful, and he would only propose to add to it such words as would exempt from the operation of the Commissioners those parishes which were incorporated by the 22d Geo. 111., 0. 33. He trusted that, at least,, he should receive such an amount of support from Hon. Members as would induce the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to stay the hands of the Poor-law Commissioners with respect to these incorporated parishes. Mr. BAINES said that, as he believed the amendment of the Noble Lord the Member for Marylebone to be substantially that the House should now declare that henceforth the jurisdiction of the Poor-law Commis. siemens should nut extend to any parish which was un der the management of a board of guardians formed Under a local Act, he should feel it his duty to oppose the motion. There could be no doubt whatever but that in the general Poor-law Amendment Act the Legisla ture intended that the powers of the Poor-law Commis sioners should extend to parishes governed by local Acts. These powers consisted in the general regulation and management of workhouses, and in the appointment Paid officers for the better relief of the poor, the eard at the same time possessing the power of direct- Ing the tenure by which such officers should hold their office, and upon every occasion upon which the Poor -law Bill had been before Parliament these Powers had been preserved to the Commissioners. --(Hear, hear.) In order to preserve uniformity in the management of workhouses, as well as for the se -eurity of the officers, it was absolutely necessary that such powers should exist. But at the same time there was nothing in these powers which could be considered bas °Wised to the boards of guardians; on the contrary, edad considered during the whole of th e ti me th a t h o held office, that his duties were rather to co-ope rate with than to controul the boards of guardians. In ma• ny instances, however, ho had found that the com- Plaints of th e poor-law officers had originated in mere party feuds, or in an attempt to reduce the salaries of the officers below the amount which he thought requisite in order to secure efficiency. He believed that he had On several occasions prevented by his interference many Worthy men from losing their situationsdsinofconsequencse of these attempts on the part of boar -During the time he had held office, he had ne g ye u r ard i ia t n r: fered in parishes under local acts, unless at the desire of the guardians themselves, or in cases where he had reason to believe, upon clear and satisfactory evidence, that there were abuses in the management of the Parish, t o w hi c h it was his duty to 'apply such re niedy as the law afforded him the means of doing. he for Brighton threw out agai ns t hi m what ae deemed a personal imputation. He read to the Rouse f 4 list of places with which, he said, the House had not interfered so as to abolish their local control, and he laid special stress on the word "Hull." N ow What were the facts? Ho had not been two years in O ffice when he was informed that the administration of the A poor-l aw was essentially defect i ve i n H u ll ; that two 'L e ath , had taken place there owing to the want of pro- Per precaution. Notwith s t an din g the representations Tote ch were made and urge d u p on hi m , h o d e clared his u ti° ll of putting in f orce th e conso lid a t e d w orkhouse r ules, .; 1 and pe rsevere d i n that intention—and what was e c .onsequence? Why, that all parties now agreed mat tt was the best thing which could have happened f ts_ or a t hem.—(Elear, hear.) Ie his administration had not ~"reehu honest, he had no claim to recommend him.— Z,e__ e ll e_rs-) The second-ground on which he rested his ten Won to the motion of his Noble Friend was this. There were in England 375 parishes, whose affairs tvereeraet regulated by directors, under local Acts. Th e lon majority of these parishes had been long and B o t ~ago under the regulation of the Poor law • ru A very small number still regulated their neon affairs. In a great many CleOS this had been done _u c P s n the petition of the guardians themselves. In other ;reef; Parliament had interfered because grave abuses r brought under the notice of the Poor-law Board. ti c bat would be the effect then of adopting this resolu e " That it be an instruction to the Committee to r - e 'i a , Prevision for exempting from the jurisdiction of Foor-law Commission any parish, the management r th e poor whereof is regulated by a board of directors Orrt;t4clians, under a local Act or local Acts of Parlia- It would be not only to protect parishes from e fu ture e jute rfer ence; b ut it would be to undo all that has re e itt n don e ,atte and thro w upon t h ese par i s h es t h e so l e admi ot the p oor -l aw . —(H ear , h ear .) A not h er .s_cianta why it wa s i mposs i ble h o could support t hi s pro .7i!tlo cts n was this:—lf t h ese par i s h es governe d b y l oca l ;tWere to be exempte 1 , he should be glad to know on ilt grounds Parliament could maintain a jurisdiction in s other hoards of guardians? The highest noblemen of guardians, land acted as chairmen in the sittings of the boards ✓ el. flardians. Th e Duke of Richmond, the Right Hon. Zelitlenaan the S ecretary o f State for the Colon i es, as thas a ho s t o f other distinguished persons, took part tri e administration of th e l aw i n the i r respective ;_ et.N die and if th e y did not fi n d i t a humiliation to put 4L! force th e conso li dated rules, he did not see how see gentlemen of St. Pancras or Marylebone could com plain.—(-Eloar, hear') Captain PECHELL assured the Right Hon. Gentle that he he did no t mean any i mputat i on whatever, and it he laid stress ;Ton the word Hull, it was merely to attract his attention, he being Member for that town. .ttes on the contrary, had endeavoured to pay him the 'Ugliest compliment, and his regret wes that he had not remained longe r in office. Mr. L xsLETT tha n k e d t h e Noble lewd for having ;n• ougat the subject under the notice of the House. He had some experience of the working of the poor law, and he considered that some amendment in the law was necessary. Mr. J. A. SMITH believed that the poor-law had effected great improvements; but at the same time he must expa ss considerable regret at the the Iniation of the Noble Lord the T e a r nner in which bone had been received. It appeared to himrfo iu r Al bla a t r y t l b e e - Public had a right to understand on what in complained of took place. t his the lp e e ase Chichester, which he represented, the Poor -law Board interfered; he did not object, nor was the conduct of the Board complained of. The guardians of Chicheste:h a a t d . carried on their business without any c omplain ts le b s so; s eever being urged against t hem . As this he did not know on what principle interference had taken PlP.ce. Ho wanted to know why, when parishes were still exempME willingly t, Chi c h es ter should have been exclud e d. •• Mr. HU bore testimony to th e a bi lity ! L ed fairn ess w hi c h characterised the administration of ✓ e Right H on . Gentleman , of w hich there never h a d b een ' o 3' complaint . With b n regard to the pariah of Maryle ere,e,el he admitted their, affairs were not in . that state he -411 u wish therm to be; abuses had crept in, and abuses took adong time to correct. With regardto . St. Patt er.", he understood the Poor-law board h a d A m m te a r j f o er t e t d v:fith the the. k -alPloyment. of their own servants. blio servants employe coeel.. ,e,p t guardians of the parish had come to the tt rgon that one of the u Inis4lhad inter as unworthy of hold i ng o ffi ce, a nd be was dis sect;f the general board sitting in Lon d o n feed e n d . s enge ce flu th d at tutt e . app lied for a mandamus to compel his re-i i contrary to common was, he considered, throu s h ou Calculated to excite discont ent and the Housealarm woul d all : the country. He hoped, there fo re, . tc) and that the Iti g h t 11 this instruction to be agreed eePtin g ' ti. en- Gentleman would introduce a clause, ex until a i zal v o te, 'Perishes from the powers of the board Sir j , vi;„,'„JtY of the ratepayers required it. sto - ne. of St';‘ ) / e L LOPE said neither in the case of Alver "ad the ra " e ras, of, Mary lebone, or of Chich ester signed hy43h,i7rs been signed by him; they had be en Sir B, 4 A P l r i e S i e eessor in office. goer -law Bill lion re minded the House that when the of th e Ro wa s last to be renewed the greatest por vernalent,han ednit..tnat Members who now sat upon the Go a prop os i tin c:1433 not only spoke but voted in favour of Itle belie ve Moved that thi Was the board should cease and determine. the present Judge-AdvoCate who Month s . e Bill be read a second that t h day three Would not he, therefore, had hoped that this amendment ofdh e s t. p ave been opposed. The board of guardians cars. Th iln eras union desired to dismiss one of their "Thaere-I:Lie, general board said they might pay their obt a in -`" tatty should not dismiss them without first the 'Fog their consent; and the board now petitioned g on e term po or b e excluded from the operation of the ge- Gove roit r e - law. The Strand Union was an instanc3 of tibi a and dl:4 control not having prevented the most hor ia any Ogusting occurrences which could take place ust the bod Pu he establishment. With regard to Maryle het of on 3'was stamp e d as a p o liti c al body by th e in this e of the Members of the Government. It was bone t h e Y was no returning officer in Maryle . returning officer was the churchwarden; there re two o h • it th urenward , ens• one was elected by the vestry, mcello:her by the Crown. Lord Portman succeeded Lord ete °p, and continued in the office under several Admi _en. ations; but the moment the Noble Lord, the pre ' t .Conuninioner of Works, found there was 5 Yaugn°37' which occurred annually, that moment Lord Portman was summarily dismissed; no communication was made to hire; Lard Portman wss in the country, and on his return he found a notice on - his table, that ho had be , ii superseded by_the G o vor.iß- - inti there was not one word of explanstion, and the polities' par.isan of the Gev,-rn mem in the pariSh was instituted in his steed. The parishes complained that .they W-ere not allowed .to ma nage their own siTairs, and — that niandateltses , veto plied for to coerce thmii; thoui7tr,.., unt!fr the cir cumstances, that the motion of his Neble . Friend was a very fair one,- and he lipped ha would press it to a di vision.—(llent) ' . . Mr. JACOB BELL ,vindicated the conduct of the parish of Marylebone at -some length, • and contended that the aspersions which bad been cast upon them had been undeserved, • Mr. HENLEY said that the House had nothing to do with the management, good or bad, of the Mary lebone vestry. The only question before the House was whether the authority of the Poor - law Board ought to be ex tended to parishes having local Acts. He had heard no reason why the exemptions should be continued, and he should, therefore, vote against the proposal of the Noble Lord. Mr. WARLEY saw no reason why a continuance Act should bo now intredeced, inasmuch as the Poor-law Board would not expire till next year. What was wanted was a poor-law court; with a poor-law judge , where applic itions from different parishes could be heard and decided in public, and then in a short time you would have a cod e o f laws for your guidance. He trusted that the Government would relinquish this Bill. Mr. W. WILLIAMS hoped that the Right Honour able Baronet opposite would consent to withdraw all in terference with parishes and their affairs, or that the House would support the motion of the Noble Lord (Lord Dudley Stuart). - Lord EBRINGTON would suggest to the Right Hon. Baronet that he should' look-very carefully into the state of the metropolitan workhouses, in some of which there had been of late a very alarming amount of mor tality. He (Lord Ebrington) would give his support to the Bill. The Marquis of GRANBY was quite tired of hearing the uncontradicted statements of Hon. Members respect ing the universal employment of the lower orders.—(Oh, oh, and Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Finsbury said that there was less pressure in the workhouses in consequence of the increased employment, but could the same be said of some parts of Ireland, where they were told the assistance of the soldiery was required to main tain order? The Honourable Member for Montrose had told them the other evening that there were thousands of unemployed persons in Scotland who ought to be sent to Australia, and to-morrow night there was to be a ball in London in aid' of those who were out of em ployment in this city. With these facts before him, he confessed that he was-tired of hearing it asserted that there were no persons, out of employment.---(Hear.) Lord R. GROSVENOR was one of those who had voted for the original Bill. He should be sorry that all central power should now be withdrawn, for he thought that the poor would suffer by it. It appeared there was a doubt with regard to the•law. This might be an instrur meet of very great torture to the rate-payers. Therefore he would vote that an amendment should be made. Sir DE LACY EVANS offered a fevv observations in favour of his amendment, which, however, could not be moved. He said that to leave the nomination of the officers in the vestry, and the removal of them not in the vestry, would be to take from the vestry all its autho ritttogether. If subordinate officers in the army could say to their superior that his orders were not legal, and that their legality must be shown before they were com plied with, they coul I not get on. And this was not all for if the arguments which he opposed were good, the whele of the vestries should be put an end to, and com plete centralization established. At any rate, it was quite clear that the two systems could not go together. Lord DUDLEY STUART explained that be did not mean anything beyend making those parishes which had local Acts independent of the Poor-law Board. The House then divided, when the numbers were— Ayes ... ..• ••• • • 33 Noes ... ••• •.• 112 M ij erity . _79 The House then regolvea itself into a Committee, Mr BERNAL in the chair. • • On clause 1 being proposed, - - Lord DUDLEY STUART moved that the blank be filled up with the worth " fifty-three" instead of fifty four," his object toang to limit the duration of the Bill to o n e year. Mr. SOTHERON thought it would be much better to extend the time to five years, the period for which the original Bill. ; was passed, and gave notice of his intention to move the insertion of words to that effect. After a few words from Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Abel Smith, and Sir J. Trollope, The Committee divided on the proposition that the blank be filled up with the words "fifty-four." For the amendment ... ... 26 Against it ..• ••• ... 72 M3jority for " fifty-four" ... —46 On our return to the gallery, rH cOmpliiiiied of certain new regale lions which hsd been thrust upon the Chichester board of guardians since the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite came into office. Sir JOHN TROLLOPE explained that these regula tions, though sent out by him, had been prepared by his predecessor. The Bill then went through Committee. Sir BENJAMIN HALL wished to ask the Hon. Member for Wiltshire whether he intended to take any other opportunity of moving that the Poor-law Bill to continued for five years? Mr. SOTHERON took that opportunity of giving nc tice that, on the report being brought up, he would move that the Bill be continued for five years. Sir BENJ AMIN HALL said he would give such a proposition all the opposition in his power, and hopei the matter would be brought on at a period of the evening when it could be fully discussed. Mr. WALTER also would oppose that propositicn. If the Bill was to bo continued from time to time the oftener it was brought under revision the better. The House then resumed; the report to be brought up on Thursday. The Turnpike Trusts Arrangements Bill passed through Committee The Differential Dues Bill was read a third time and passed. On the question that the Passengers' Act Amendment Bill be further considered, Mr. CARDWELL reminded the Right Hon. Colonial secretary that his Hon. Friend the Member for South Lancashire and himself had a clause to bring forward , relating to the passenger-fee levied on emigrant vessels. Ho did not complain of the lateness of the hour (it was now a quarter past one o'clec11), but the debate wou:d . occupy some time; however; if the Right Hon. Gentle man wished to go on he (Mr. Cardwell) was ready. Sir JOAN FAKING roN thought the debate might go on; he did not think it would occupy much time. Mr. WILLIAM BROWN hoped the consideration of the Bill would be pos•poned. He expected great sym-. pathy from Hon. Members opposite, as his clause would to some extent relieve the whipping interest, but the' House was very thin at present, and most of the Members he referred to were absent. The Bill was then postponed to Thursday next. The Committee on the Grand Juries (Metropolitan . Districts) Bill, was postponed to Friday next, after some. remarks from Mr. Stuart Wortley, objecting that the Bill went tea far, and suggesting that it would be batter to retain the power of summoning grand juries with limited powers. The Ecclesiastical Courts (Criminal Jurisdiction) Bill passed through Committee. The Inland Revenue °Mee Bill, the Hereditary Casual Revenues in the Colonies Bill, the Excise Summary Pro ceedings Bill, and the Bishopric of Quebec Bill were severally read a second time and ordered to be com mitted. The Masters' Act Extension Bill was committed pro forma in order to be re-committed on Friday next. The Nisi Prius Officers (Deficiency of Fees, &c.) Bill passed thro , igh Committee. . Mr. STAFFORD moved for, and obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 11 Geo. IV., c. 20. Mr. G. A. HAMILTON moved for, and obtained leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend certain Acts relating to the Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues of the Crown. The House then adjourned at 20 minutes before Two o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 24. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on tho Wool sack at Frye o'clock. MR. COBBETT'S CASE. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from Mr. Jesse 01 dfield complaining of the present state of the law with regard to actions brought in forma pauperis gMinr.alOwldefilei.lkdtisotawtieidsworrt et 3 ofhabeas and praying for corpus, and alteration in the law. no that e e h d e i n ha d gs i n been n s a e ci p u a e r n t party to e the of w hoireih vMoicirts.ooChne,orba, b n e ld t B t 3t h9 h a i t d is, 1839—above since that 1a oo time—th e m e committed_ t h to o theQueen's commencement Benchof z e r t i t ts of habeas corpus had been moved for by M r . r a t . n_d e o r a b e b ,v v e a t e t s r , t e a n n l l u o i m w n b i p e o e r r n m d o d - f actions brought ag a i nst hi m by pauperis, and at the present ti me ing no less than seven actions, rlo also brought against him by Mr. Cobbett. Atter a tor words from the LORD CIIANELLOR, of Lord CAMPBELL moved for a return _ the nu m b er of writs of habeas corpus moved for by Mr. Cobbett since the Ist October, 1839. The return was agreed to. PETITIONS. The Duke of NEWC ASTLE p resen ted a petition from builders and others in the metropolis, praying for the enfr:irichiiement or copyholds. The At hbisbop o f CANTERBURY presented a petition upinit the INLynnoth grant. On the in)tion of Lord COLCHESTER, the stock in Trade Bill was read•a third time and passed. Oa the iii,tir , n of the same NOBLE LORD the Highway Ra*cs Bill w Is read a third time and passed. Oa the motion for the bringing up the report on the Common Law Procedure Bill, Lo:d LYN I)HURST said that a rumour bad gone abroad that this Bill was distasteful to the Government, and that they hati. retarded the pregress of it in Com -I.iorte''. Ile would appeal to the Noble and Learned facilitate its ds opposite si healer this was the case, and whether,: in fa c t, Lord owing and Learned' they had not done all they could to progress. In fact had it not been to the unfortunate illi;e3s of the Noble would long dcou awaywould ongreat proceedednumber impeded of in3tances in whioh ``; ..~y THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY - EVENING, _ . Salisbury or Grantham—or he might mention a place from which a warning voice had that night been heard— Windsor. Hon. Members of the other House would assu redly discover that there had been a great alteration since their last visit in 1847.—(A laugh.) They would find a marked improvement, which could only be attributed to a decrease in the price of provisions. They would be told all this by the women.—(Laughter.) Noble Lords might laugh, but there was no surer indication of the do mestic condition of the people than the account which the women would give on election occasions. And he declared that if two per cent. of the female portion of the population asked for a restoration of the corn• laws, or any egaivalent, to deprive them of what they called the " cheap loaf," he (the Duke of Newcastle) would surrender the question. Ho believed that, on the contrary, tales would be heard from the wives and daughters of working men more pathetic in their humble prose than the forcible poetry of " Corn-law Rhymes," tales as powerfully proving the folly of restoring the corn laws as those rhymes showed the folly of re taining them. Why, the importation of corn amounted to nearly 10,000,000 quarters! Did not the very importation of that quantity prove that it was wanted ? Was it not clear that the provision for the labouring classes had been made a certainty, which before had been matter of specula tion ? And was there any ore prepared to take a course welch would deprive them of this supply? Even the sign , cultural villages showed the improvement. The poor-law returns showed a diminution o ver th e w h o l e are a of England of 7/ per cent. in the number o f p aupers re li ev ed. Nor had the improvement been m er ely i n t h e manu facturing dis tricts; the returns proved the reverse. The few towns in which there had been an increase included some manu facturing towns, such as Leicester and Nottingham; while among the districts in which there bad been the largest decrease in pauperism were Berks, Bucks, Devonshire, Westmoreland, and the East Riding. The returns proved that in the villages and •smaller towns there had been a decrease of pauperism consequent upon the increased means of subsistence and the — augmented means of employment. The case was the same with Scotland. To support his statements as to England the Noble Duke referred here to a return of a poor-law inspector for one of the districts, in which it was stated that, out of a population of three millions, only three-seventieths were in the receipt of relief. The period of the return was for three years after 1848. The corn-law had been repealed in 1816, but did not come into operation till 1849. So the returns proved that the diminution of pauperism had been con current with the abolition of protection. In 1843 there were on the poor-law books in the district referred to 79,000. In 1849 this number had been reduced, in round numbers, to 74,000; in 1850, to 69,000; and, in 1851, to 65,000. The diminution of crime tended to establish similar conclusions. At the last quarter sessions there had been hardly any of those offences which of old were used to occupy several days. He contended, then, that these facts showed that they were the true friends of industry who had relieved it of its fetters, and sent the people to work either at the loom or the plough. It was indeed said that there had been great distress in the country. He did not deny it. He had never denied it. He believed it was to be looked for as the natural result of the transition from one state to another. He had never anticipated that such a a change could be effected without s me severe dis tress. He knew, however, that in some districts rents were too high, and had to-be reduced, and he believed this to be rather a landlord's question. He would not prejudge what course the Noble Earl might pursue next session on this subject. No one could raise a voice against the present Bill, and it was very probable that a similar measure would be brought forward again. He (the Duke of Newcastle) wished such broad hints had not been thrown out on the part of the Government as to direct taxation being im practicable without exemptions, and with exemptions practically confiscation.—(Hear, hear.) And if the tax were to be abandoned before therevenue had equalised itself with expenditure, and the increase of the amount derived from other taxes now existing, he hoped the Noble Earl would not resort to duties on articles of trade, and, above all, the food of the people. He entreated the Noble Earl to abandon the idea as chimerical. He (the Duke of Newcastle) would not deal in menace to their Lordships, especially in times so quiet and contented. But he was much mistaken if the people of this country, however attached to their Sovereign and their constitution, would suffer any withdrawal of the benefits they had obtained by free trade. He was persuaded they would not allow any measure by which, directly or indirectly, any increase upon the burdens of the consuming classes should take place. He hoped the Parliament about to be returned would resist any reversal or revision of the free-trade policy. He did not, of course, mean to exclude wise revision of details, but such a revision as was talked of by " free-trade. Derbyites" at elections, who spoke against reversal while' reserving to themselves the power of re vision. It was doubtless intended, by these slippery phrases to do that indirectly which could not be done directly ; but he believed the resistance of the people would be equally great, and their discontent greater. The Noble Earl had spoken of the Conservative character of his Govern ment, and of his being a barrier against the encroachments of democracy. If there were ever such " encroachments" he (the. Duke of Newcastle) would be a humble follower of the Noble Eael ' • but he saw no symptoms pf su c h en croachments, and only observed that occasionally an agita tor's speech fell flatly upon - the -people's-ears.—(Hear, hear.) But the Noble Earl had no right to assume to himself this position until he had " made a clear breast of it" upon this most important question. A declaration from the Noble Earl before Parliament was dissolved that he had finally abandoned any intention of restoring the corn-laws would place the Noble Earl in a proud position before the people. But a Conservative policy at this day was a policy of rational, steady, well-considered, and, because steady and well-con sidered, safe and salutary progress.—(Cheers from the Oppo sition.) It was impossible to stand still without danger, and any attempts at that re-actionary policy, of which there had anticipatedss of been recently s ome s y m pt o ms, would accelerate the onward proper Noble progress policy of a Conser va ti ve G ove rnment was progress; to stand chat democracy, end deprecated.the advance H p of repeated, thewhichthe He reee still was ,peril ; and re-action was .revolution.—(Cheers from the Opposition. ) Lord BE RNERS, a ft er s t a ti n g that in some counties the cry was " Free -trade and starvation," referred to certain re turns showing that the expenditure for the relief of the poor in 1850, which was 5,305,0001., was 440,0001. more than for the year 1836—(Hear, hear)—and, though it was less than for the year 1849, it walonly one farthing per head on the population less than the average of the seven years when there was the highest price of wheat. It might, perhaps, be supposed that wh,en there was the lowest average price of wheat we should have the lowest amount of, expenditure for the poor, but such was not the feet. The minimum price of wheat in 1e37 was 525. If then, be took the last sixteen years, and took out the eight years 'when wheat was above 525., and 'eight when it was below that found snine that deposited. from price, he found a very large prices. The expenditure for the last five years was greater by 2,000,0001. than for the five preceding years; and proportion in favour of high the expenditure for 1850, though less than for 1849, was greater than for any other year since 1836. From another 20,000 depositors leas them for 1846, and 3,2061 00 l• less return decreaseh .deposited in amount, though last year, certainly, there Was e o a f la t o he a little increase. Lord WODEHOUSE said his did not lead observation him to the same conclusion as the Noble Earl. The years 1848 and 1849 had been years of • ow in g to 184F6Ortble8r4e9w ataheasegebigeerrael great depression, causes quite separate from the question of free trade. He •hardly believed that—at le as t in the part of the country w ith which he was best acquaint e d, the eastern counties—it was 'at all disputed that the condition of the labouring classe s had m that vastly improved. It would see h the rise i n wages which was observable had created some apprehension in the mind of the farmer that - the condition of the labourer own. 'would improve more rapidly th an his oa If the argument anything, of Noble Lords opposite wa s good for • the depre ciation in the condition of th e a riclli e g, d wo uld be a 'continually-increasing deprecititn. If theo tura' b y f arme r was living upon his capital, he must r go more and more towards the verge of ruin wh cvery yea frequently ich had been so predicted. He appealed t o Noble Lords who were AC . I quainted with the agricultural distr . whether, instead of their being in a continual state of de icts . there Was not a decidedly improved and healthful toneeciation, the occupiers of land. He believed that the moat among re being excited in the breasts of the farmers, sanguine hopes w t e he were 'being aroused to a greater de raerrners, and that d y industry • than ever. He could not hel g e of energy an P noticing the very prepos terous argument that had been used —not in that or in the other House of Parliament, 'ant ' t 'Withstanding the many hundred thousandout of doors—that, n o o rn and flour annually imported into tis singlequarters a of c i loaf, more of bread had been, eaten le country, not __,_ w shcive.4hat therewaalao Tear of l 7 the petwle- , Now to , land ing.out ef,eidanre ton, Ihe Inergiat-stiteet ha ell 4 tiast repo- a9 t el' sure 0111 ,missioners no less than 644 applications of the A h o them • ,of these 161 had been d•-• had been made to ,isposeg of before the. last an nual report, and of the remaining 483, 364 were Tor en closures of land, and the quanti ty comprised in the apphea• Itions and authorised 'to be enclosed, e• the last eeneral re port, was 46,793 acres. Although ince n ,treated as one of reason and deliberat• - ',with the great body of the people one of the nee ion, it was t. Last ;year when the Noble Earl had not tlest interes of a 'Government upon his shoulders,and responsibility_ in ample had not succeeded in ample a iforming nd an deli Adm berateim *strationand "open given e had them a very what eZbu r he was going to do , but of what he what done. He stated that he should have proposed a r d al diminution and extension of the income-tax, pledcen a 1 - moderate duty upon corn. That was a p o n e , with ..l a shadowed 'forth, but clearly and distinctly I not aall 3' e nunciated. He wished , 'the Noble Lord would adopt the seine • now. It was lan extraordinary state of things when coursethey 'Mieister of the Crown making en elaber he•Finarice had t • _ ate statement of • principres establishing the free-e re d e ,Government, and then they had th e polic y of the late Noble Earl at the ,head of the Administratiens-snotin that House but at the , Mansion-house making an elaborate , of the facts used by his chanCellor, of the _mystification On the eve of an approaching election, it a pxchequer. 0 , that they should have some explanation of policythmeasteesential of the Governmeht—whether it was deemed advistabl I' eve the policy of the late "Sir Robert Peel, -or adopt o it in its entirety,and carry it out. • There were other matters, such as the navigation-laws, the timber duties, and the test duties; upon which it would .. be very desirable some opinion should be pronounced; and he b elieved oth er states were anxiously waiting to see whether this, country would con grilse: to - pursue the policy it had commenced. .11e could the Noble Earlehat. by the silence he had assure adopted ' • tote caul of the great party which he headed; and however much L ne might differ from that party, he did not wish to see it destroyed. . • The Earl of A.LBEigARLE trusted the N o b le .Earl ;woul d give the,Hovee some.,littie _inkling of his future policy. <ln other Places he was not so chary of his, opinions, for at the Mapeionelspuse he ,bad indulged in what his Noble Friend. called an elaborate mystification; and he hoped it would not beSaid that his policy could only be elicited by turtle and champagne. The Noble Berl had there spoken of a large class unconnected with manufactures. Would the Noble, Earl.inform them whom be meant ? There were three deno minations of persons in the agricultural class=the labourer, the tenant-farmer, and the landlord. He would assume at once that it was -not the landlord, and he inferred that it could not be the labourer. Ha feared the House was "No," impa tient,—(Cries of "Go on.") Well, then, would the Noble Earl inform him of any period when the labouring man—thanks to the bleasings of free trade—enjoyed a larger supply o f bread, butter, bacon , eggs, tea,sug ar, and coffee? ' (Cheers.) Then there was the p oor roan 's luxury, tobacco; and he would call their Lordship? attention ?o the increased . consumption of that as an evidence of the improved condition of the labouring classes. ‘ the calculations of the consumption of tobacco per head in the five last decennial periods was, omitting fractions of ounces, in 1821, 11 oz. per head ; 1831, 12 oz.. ; 1841, 13 oz.; , and 1851, 16 oz. He believel that more skill and capital had been expended in agricultural pursuits by the tenant farmers• of the free-trade measures than since the passing Noble Friend had spoken of His at any previous period. the - consumption of bones and fo r ei g n man ures—he found ' that in th e l a St five years the quantitie s im ported were, in . 1848, 103,000 tons • in 1849, 1 12,000 tons; in 1 850, 144,000 ' tons ; and in 1851, 274,000 tons, showing an i ncrease of 137 per cent, He admitted that there was distress among . the tenant-farmers here and there, bet the present was a transition state, and the improvements going o n i n all Planers ee.ae Am es i edeeoe that they werarecoYeripg from it, the ends of justice had been defeated by the court hav ing pushed the technicalities of the law to a most absurd extent. 1,-.:IICRANWORTH. co :culled in the extreme icaL porculiee of the inetusure. The ropert wr 3 then r(ci?iverl, find the Bill was or dcired to be read a third time on Thursday next. T.TtTWEIITVFAX-CONTINUANCE-131LL. The Earl of DERBY, in moving tee second reading of the absve Bill, epoke as follows:--lily Lords, although it has been suggested by a Noble Friend of mine that it would be desirable to read the Property Tax Continuance Bill merely pro forma, with a view of postponing the discussion upon it in going into Committee, I think under the peculiar circumstances in which we are placed as regards public busi ness such a course would be attended with inconvenience to Noble Lords on the oppoeite side of the House, as well as to some on the Ministerial side. It is important that this Bill should receive the Royal assent-with as little delay, as possi ble. I therefore submit to your Lordships the proposition that you will now,read a second time the Bill for the contin uance of the property and income-tax for one year longer. In bringing this subject before yonr Lordships it will not of course be expected that I should go into any details as to the state of the revenue and expenditure of the country, or as to the particular reasons which have induced the Government to propose the reeewal of this tax. Your Lord ships must be well aware that at the commencement of the present session, upon the change of .the Government, there was a general understanding on the part of this as well as the other House of Parliament that with the exception of such measures as were not likely to lead to serious differences of opinion, no business was to _be brought forwsrd by her Majesty's Ministers. Her Majesty's Government have even declared that in the present session of Parliament it was not their intention to introduce any measure that would be likely to involve any serious conflict of opinions, and more especially in regard to que , tions affecting the finances of the country.—(hear, hear.) There was, my Lords, more than this understanding—there was a distinct declaration that no measure materially affecting the commercial or fiscal, condi tion of the country would be_ introduced into Parliament this session. The question, then, for the consideration of her Majesty's Government, was not whether any alteration could be made in the fiscal. or commercial policy of the country, or whether ,they could make such alter tions in the revenue and expenditure of the country as might enable them to dispense with a tax of this character, the objections to which he should be the last man to undervalue.—(Hear, hear.) But, my Lords, the question was, whether any alteration of the tax itself, whether by any new arrangement of the system under which it was levied, it would. be possible for us to dispense with either the whole or any portion of it. Now, I think a single word will satisfy your Lordships that, even if it , had been desired wholly to dispense with this tax, which was levied originally for a temporary purpose, and which I still hope may be looked upon as temporary, but :is merely continued from year to year to meet the pressing necessity of the case—l think your Lordships will agree with me, that unless ewe feel ourselves in a position for making some general or final arrangement in respect to the whole system of taxation, it would be inexpedient to continue the whole or -any portion •of the tax, at least for the present.—( Hear, hear.) But practically speak ing we had no alternative -placed before us; for though - there is a surplus of income over the expenditure of last year —yet as an important alteration in the taxation of the country had taken place, the- effect of which did not come into full operation until the present year—it was diffieult.to say what the result of such alteration would be upon the revenue of the country. If, the income tax had been alto gether taken off in the course of this year, we may reason ably calculate that at the close of the financial year, instead of this surplus, there would be a deficiency of income to the amount of 2,500,0001. And by the loss of the remaining half of the income tax that-would fall upon the following year, the r esult of our not renewing it wouldbe this—that in the year of 1833 we would find ourselves in a deficiency to the amount of about 5,000,0001.—(Hear.) The statement which my - Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche quer submitted to the House of Commons a few evenings ago went to show that the result of obtaining the whole tax, supposing that no alteration had been made in the receipts, would be, on the best calculations, to give a:surplus of 450,0001. upon the revenue of this year. This is a surplus which I think is 'not more than is absolutely necessary to meet the probable exigencies of the State, and the call that may be made on us -for increased expenditure. Nor is it more than is necessary for us to keep as a balance in hand for the maintenance of public business.—(Hear, hear.) Under these eireunistances, feeling ours e l ves bound by the stipulation which we have entered 'into—not to introduce, in the present session, any material alteration into our financial or fiscal regulations—and I will also fairly admit, not having the opportunity of considering or of proposing to Parliament any matured plan for the arrangement of our fiscal affairs, though we should even consider such to be ultimately expe dient—her Majesty's Government feel that they have no al ternative, while desirous to retain .a surplus revenue, and having a due regard to the maintenance of public faith and public securitya-they, I say, feel that the have no alternative than to make that proposition which I now sub mit to your Lordships, namely, to continue without alteration or amendment the existing property tax-' for another year, in order to afford us in the 'interval the fullest 'prac ticable to make any alteration in the neencoheirial,lankse,hyyobstuep o pportunity of considering whether it w ill be thisn c e- e o i u v n i tn t a r g y x , y. — a o n u( d rue t o ra o ra d sh i h s ei p ap e rsu _) s_e .A w s ht i t o ut h hi t ed h e s nawom4heo time e l r ad r e thtoi acting n gd t h e o a- e f I I frank or honest part if I were to hold but any -very sanguine expectations,that this would be the last occasion upon which I should deem it necessary to submit to this 1101183 a propo sition for the renewal of the tax. While '1 say this, my Lords, I cannot but admit the strength of the arguments that are urged for the removal or modification of the tax, because I think, not only that it is one which• oughtnot to be resorted to except for the purposes of war, and should, ilot be looked upon as part of the ordinary resources of the country, bat also because, from the best considerations that I have been able to give it, and from the considerations given to it by successive Committees of the other House of Parliament, I believe the difficulties are almost insuperable which stand in the way of diminishing its injustice and inequality_ (Rear.) With that impression, I should be glad if the present state of the revenue, or looking forward for a year or two, I should, I say, be happy if the revenue were in such a state as would enable me to hold out expectations of the reduction or ' the abolition of this tax. But I think the course-which the • Government is taking, of proposing to continue it for the pre sent year, is that which affords to Parliament the fairest and best opportunity of considering the practicability in a future ' session of Parliament of its entire abolition or reduction; and I, for one, am willing to rest the proposition for the con tinuance of the tax for another year simply upon the tines- , tion of necessity, for the purpose of maintaining the public credit.—(Hear, hear.) If it can be shown in any future session that the credit of the country can be maintained, and 1 that our finances can be upheld with due•consideration for ' the expenditure of the country, I shall be the first to rejoice at Government the abolition of o fthe htiacxh. Andama if it member shou should o submitfall to h teol Par-ot of the liameut a proposition for the repeal, or even for the reduc tion of a tax which in its operation I believe to be not only . 1 unpopular, but justly so, no one -.will be more rejoiced at having such a duty •to discharge: • Under the circumstances then on which we stand—with the under standing that we have a prospect at no distant ,period that the policy of this tax will be duly considered, as well as our t ommercial and financial policy generally, I ' trust that your Lordships will not only - gireyeur consent - tp the second reading, but in the position in 'which we are now placed, you will be also of opinion that the continunnce of this tax for a single year is the -only conese it is possible for her Majesty's Government under the circumstances to take. I have, therefore, to 'm o ve your - Lordships - that the Property Tax Continuance Bill be read a se cond time. The Duke of NEWCASTLE was exreeneJY re they c m a o m re e a t n o x a i u fi s n t a o l d d e o c is s ne-•befo Briery to tres pass upon their Lordships for a short ti oppose the second reading ; - en the contrary , h eirould g ive desirable, in the present state of • the country , t hat there i o on be u c ri a o u n se the measure his cordial a ssent. Nevertheless , he felt it ' iellhiteevfntaiosnthtee the was u e t o i t o n h . should be a discossiou upon the - financial affairs of the country. He would remind their' Lordships of the circum stances under which this •tax originated, apdtviscentinned by successive Governments. The Noble Earl would - forgive him for referring to a statement. -which be made last year ' in respect to this ;subject. , The Noble Earl'e statement - on the present occasion as to - this 'tax being originally pro posed not the whole truth. Th e 'ti l e W a s ori as a temp(erary measure, wag' the truth; but 'it was only for the purpose o f miie - thag a temporary 1 deficiency, but also of enabling the Government to dealewitirthe other revenues of the State in such - a - manner eels's- me ld enable-them , ginaHr peoposed, met to dispense wish, it as a permanent tax - . • In-1810, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer of that day, being ire a deficiency, recommended, as an experiment, that 10 'per cent. should be added to the direct taxes of the country, and 5 per cent. to the indirect taxes.' What witi-the-re,sult The 10 per cent. brought in the vehble anfount of, the tax tentemplated; lent the 5 per cent2retarned somethieg per cent. 1MM:1 the calculations or the Chancellor of the Eteheqiter. The fact was thus proVed that the" takes' upun hrticles of coil- sumption hada-tad-led their nitnat linitsle - It was therefore I necessary, with a seiew to thole reduction, that in'the mean while an incqpne-tax should be reim - persed. That 1018 • ttie policy of the late Sir Rcshertereee in•le.4 3 2e - On the 19th. bf May, the Noble Eirl, in reply to . ' the icroble'lefarquis the then President of he Council, said be• Was prepared' to vote' for the abolition ef the prcipeety•eaX, as such a 'system - of taxation was calcated to bring rani on ,the-rountrt. He, (the Noble Duke contendefl" .thatall2tHe eiriderice: they could obtain went - to 'show - float - this'-system of "teAtiou had conduced considerably to the preselArity - of, the Coun try. As one of the strongest - proofs of such prosperity;, 'he need only refer to the late speech of the Chancellor of 'the Exchequer. Within the last ten years' there had been 'a remission of taxation amounting to ,about' 12;000,0004, not withstanding which the revenue of the 'country was in' as prosperous a state as ever it was before such•sreruission, and the comforts and happiness of the people had' been consi derably increased. Of coffee; in 1841 there were 28,500,0001b5. consumed, while in the last year. the quan tity was 32,500,0001b5. Tea, in' 'lB4l was 36,500,0001b5., whereas.in 1851 it rose to 54,000,0011b5. The consump tion of, seigar in 1841 was 4,000,000 eWts.; in 1851 it, was 6, ;00,090. Coco., in 1811 e was 2,000,000 cwt.; _whereas. in 1851 it rose'to nearly 3,000,000 cwt. Our exports increased within the time more than .50 per cent., and our imports more than 70 per cent._ What, however, was the case with America? Why, the last speech of the President of the United States contained a paragraph lamenting the, large exports of specie which were gradually leaving the coffers of the country; while, on the contrary, the specie in the coffers of this country liad increased tremendously within the last few yeare. It might be said that the discovery of the gold mines in California-had led to such a result. Why, this was a fact that told altogethei' against the' Noble Lord's "argu meuese and rendered a return to protection absolutely impos aible. He had listened to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's admissions as to the result of their legislation in reference increase ap s i t ia ip re pi n e t g . T to sugar with th e grea t es t ple a sure, because it was a triumphant proof of the success of such legislation. The ad e v re autages gained from the repeal of the navigation-laws w -equallyherease in m eenoton a ly co b r e r e e n s buthere' there 'h has been corresponding a on l d a i r ng ge increase in the number u of seamen employed. Besides that the transit t ra d e d of up to a position of the greatest importance. Some soon of the oriel' ports of the country, such as Hull, wo u ld Europe -Ind America; entrepot i o f i n t ercourse b e t ween " G F. - ioung," th e effe e c n t ` s t iii spite of the declamations of laws had been favourable be repeal of the navigation are now built cheaper and better' td the shipping interest. Vessels Lords who were fond of yachting they had been, as Noble Ano ther and a most important point''g were well aware. ' agricultural interest had was the way in • agricubeen affected b _ ,which •the corn-laws. Putting aside the effects upony the repeal of the farmers, what had ban the effect upon te the landlords and t population, of the country.? Let their r Lordship s great bulk of th e merely into the markets of market towns on market days, not and converse with those who bought and s o ld there, but go a mong the people; let - them follow the memb ers of the other House ,in those domiciliary visits which they would s oon have to pay.—(A. laugh and he e was pers ua d e d they w ould son 'find the altered position of the inhabitants. He did not merely speak of the great hives of our popula tion,Glasgow and Birmingham~ Liverpool and Mancheste r , but of couuty tom 91 8 00i) Or 10 000 as ; ; MAY 25, He had received a number -of letters from various parts of ; the country corroborating those facts. The first was from Burtgay,- from a Mr. Scott, a large agriculturist, who stated that the change back to protection could not be made with out creating something like a rebellion in the manufactur ing ' districts. In a letter from the Rev. George Sandys, rector of Trixham, Suffolk, he stated that the tenant-farmer' had suffered great loss from a local blight; but he had never knoivn the labours of the board of guardians, of which he was chairman, lighter, and had never Imown house so comparatively free from able-bodied .paupers.• The poor Man had had more in his mouth for the.last three years than heliad -ever had beforis. Another letter from the getil tleman who managed his estates in Norfolk, and who.was a Protectionist in opinions, stated that his observation, which was of no limi' ed time and ever no small extent of country, led him to believe :that there never was more activity or more disposition to improve among the agricultural . body. Every man who had sufficient capital to stand the existing depression was doing everything in' his power to improve his condition, and that accounted for all the labourers being employed He bad another letter from Mr. Birth, one of the first agriculturists of the county of Norfolk, in a district where all the people depended directly or indi rectly upon agriculture. The condition of the farmers there was improved ; there were few hands out of employ ment, few applications for relief, and frequent inquiries for labourers. Immense exertions were being trade to increase the produce of the land by keeping more stock, feeding more cattle, and adopting a more cleanly sptem of tillage. An other letter, from a gentlbman whose name he was not at liberty to mention, said the industry, skill, and capital of the agricultural classes was materially improved since he had become connected with West Norfolk, ten years ago. The farmer bought more manure, cultivated higher, and the agricultural mind appeare Ito be more active. These were a few of the opinions of some of the most intelligent farmers of the country. Under these circumstances he implored the Noble Earl to declare whether what the world was beginning to think probable was the fact, that conviction was avout to dawn upon the Government and produce a great change in their policy. Atter a few words in explanation from Lord BERNERS, Earl GRANVILLE said if any Noble Lord on the oppo site side was about to rise, he would at once retire.—(Hear, and laugh.) He hoped some Noble Lord connected with the Government would give some explanation to the House-- let them either confute the facts and statements of the Noble Duke (Newcastle), or at once frankly and generously admit they had been in error in having for so long a time opposed the commercial system which had been recently adopted in this country. Let not the fact go to the country that they were unwilling to admit what had been stated, and unable to deny it. He thought such a course would be one of which the House and the country would have some right to complain. The Noble Earl, in the short speech in which he had introduced a most important mea sure to their Lordships, stated the course the Government meant to take—viz., that during the present session they would only propose and pass such measures as were actually necessary, and that then they would make an appeal to the country to decide upon the principles and policy they should pursue with reference to certain great questions. At the time it appeared to him, although he had no right to ask the Noble Earl to define the precise measures that would be brought forward after the general election, that they had a right to expect that the Noble Earl should have stated the general principles, tendency, and colour of the policy upon which the country would be called upon to decide. But the fact was, that so far from giving any hint as to the general principles or policy proposed to be - pursued, appeals were made to the con stituencies sometimes by members of the Government, some times by Hon. Gentlemen who were the ordinaty supporters of the Government, and also by speeches of different ten dencies one from the other, so that the electors were much more in the dark as to the probable policy of the Govern ment than on the very day when they assumed the reins of power.—(Hear, hear.) It was most desirable that the coun try should know whether it was intended to relieve the landed interest by an import duty on foreign corn or by some other indirect means, or whether it was intended to carry out the commercial system introduced by the late Sir Robert Peel. Judging from the speech of the Noble Earl at the beginning of the year, he would infer that the Noble Earl believed the present system was fraught with mischief, and that he was still of opinion that a recurrence to a duty on corn, for purposes of revenue and protection, was a mat ter of necessity -- The Earl of DERBY—The Noble Earl is quite wrong in supposing that I said a duty on foreign corn was a matter of necessity. I stated, that for the purpose at once of re lieving the suffering agricultural interest, and also for the purpose a improving the revenue, and thereby enabling us to take off other taxes without injury to the consumer, I thought it might be desirable to impose a moderate fixed duty on foreign corn. I distinctly stated that that was my own opinion. I did not say that it was a matter of necessity, but I stated that, whether the relief should be given by the imposition of . a dnty upon foreign corn was a matter which rested upon the judgment of the constituencies, but that I thought that was a desirable mode of affording relief to the agricultural classes. I hold to that opinion still ; but I state again, that that is a question which must be left to the con stituencies of the country; and, moreover, if it give any sa tisfaction to the Noble Earl, and to the Noble Lords oppo site, my opinion is, from what I have since heardand learned, there certainly will not be in favour of the re-imposition of a duty on foreign corn that extensive majority, without which as I stated to your Lordships at the beginning of the session„ it would not be desirable to propose it.—(Lead cheese from the Opposition benches.) Earl GRANVILLE was glad that the mistake in his mind as to the Noble Earl's expressions had produced a de claration which would be hailed with the greatest satisfac tion by the country, that there was no likelihood of re-im posing a duty upon corn. He etas glad to find that this great question of raising the price of food by the production of an artificial scarcity was at last and for ever given up. There was one other pledge given by the Noble Earl with regard to the navigation-laws. The Noble Earl said that he had no intention of re-enacting the navigation-laws. The present system had, he believed, been found in practice to work most beneficially, and it had already been considerably promoted by other countries. No less than 500 British vessels had within the last year entered the ports of the United States, which, previously to the repeal of the navigation-laws, could not be admitted, and of these no lees than about 400 had been cleared out. lie really thought, after the declaration of the Noble Earl, so suddenly and unexpectedly made to them; which showed that he had come to the only conclusion which Noble Lords on that side of -the House believed the Government could come, that it was unnecessary to trespass further upon the attention of their Lordships. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE . complained that upon the second reading of one of the most important Bills ever laid before that House, their Lordships had not been sum moned. The Earl of DERBY should say that he bad not come down to the House that evening prepared to go into a de bate on the-seecnd reading of the Bill. He thought to have it read ksycond time pro forma, and to have taken the debate in Conimittee. Had he any idea that a debate would have been raised on the question, he should have come prepared to meet it; but their Lordships might perceive by the benches on the Ministerial side of the House, that none of the sup porters of her Majesty's Government were present, which would not be the case were there any expectation that the debate would now be gone into. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that - if the Noble Earl opposite (Earl Derby) had intimated to the House at an early period that it was his intention to take the second reading pro forma, there would be no objection whatever.— (Hear, hear.) When the Noble Earl intimated to him (the Duke of Newcastle) his intention of taking the second read ing proforma, he instantly acquiesced, but at the same time assured the Noble Earl that other - Noble Lords would be more or lees taken by surprise at the adoption of suck a course, understanding that a debate was to ensue on the second reading. He should say if the Noble Earl the First Minister of the Crown were taken by surprise in the matter, it was by his own officials in the other House who failed to give him proper intimation.—(Hear.) The Earl of DERBY said, that, though a matter of con venience, it would not be a matter of absolute necessity that the Bill should pass before the Whitsuntide holidays. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed that the Bill was accepted by the country only on the grounds of its being a temporary measure. He called on the Noble Earl the First Minister ,of the, Crown to declare at once—as to such declaration he should borne next year—that he did not intend to re-impose a burden on any class of the community for the benefit of another.—.(Hear, hear.) Let the Noble garl declare that he would give up protection to agriculture as it had been called, as, by doing so now, it would be more convenient to the country, and advantageous to the Govern ment.—(Hear, bear.) - The Earl of DERBY made an observation across the table which did not reach the gallery. Earl GREY had heard with great surprise the observa tions of the Noble Earl opposite (Earl of Derby) in the course of the incidental conversation which took place that evening. The income-tax had'been for several years the keystone of their fiscal position; and no Minister of the Crown, in mov ing its continuance or re-imposition, ever failed to explain the motivea arid reasons that demanded its re-enactment.— (Hear, hear.) Last year, when his Noble Friend (the Mar quis of Lansdowne) moved the isecond reading of a similar Bill, he thought it right respectfully to state his views to the House on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) It was at great in convenience that he (Earl Grey) attended there that even ing, as was also the case with many other Noble Peers at his side of the House, who came fully prepared to hear the sub ject entered into. If the Noble Earl opposite had intimated .previously. his intention of taking the second reading p ro forma, no Noble Lord, he was sure, would have objecte d . But, after' coming down to the Heine at Much inconve nience, and then to be told that the Noble Earl had arranged to take the discussion on a later stage, was not, he should I say, treating the House with proper or becoming respect.— (Hear, hear.) It was right that the House-should consider this matter, as it wet one of deep and vital importance to the country. If Noble Lords opposite were afraid to avow or maintain their former opinions, were Noble Lords on the Opposition side of the House to permit the matter to , be slurred over?—(Hear, hear.) It was therefore with great_ pleasure be had heard the sp eech of the Noble Duke n who preceded wrioet p r eceded him (Earl Grey) t hat evening. He repeat the statements of that Noble Duke (the w Duke of Newcastle), but he should observe that on the Mini terial side of the House n o contradiction had been given to the facts stated by his Noble Friend. There had_hmee.n great reductions of taxation without corresponrdoi:g di s, and a nutions in the revenue. Trade had been . KosPe. spirit .of enterprise and activity now dist guiasghredicoeitvnerrey, (branch of our industry, not even excluding (Hear, to which so much reference had been m_ad hear.) Pauperism had been diminished ;easdlleitsiceticourder:ngthtoe the statement. of the 'Chancellor of th Prosperity of the wintry had never hose teal consequences b ee9,. .higher than at present.--(flear, hear.) Not one of t predicted by Noble Lords opposite as tbi) result of free trade had come to realization. There was o ne subject which, from the office he (Earl Grey) latelyerbdeadd w th h e in h h r h o e ur wa to e bold, he felt interested in, and, as reg informed, the Government had made of t u h p e their minds effect an alteration in the coairosyre, as that was the case, namely, the article of sugar. N and considering the very p interest which he took in the question, he hoped to be permittedee to go , i m nt l o n a en f c e e w d dtehteaildsi—s (Hear, heart) The Noble Duke cussion had pointed out the great increase which had taken place in the consumption of alteration in the duties - April, 1846 —the consumption of rl ga l r B w s t , s 5 the c,7l4,ooowhilzit, for onsumption reached the year ending AP I he l year - e nding July, 1814, the whole 7,00,000 cwt. quantity of sugarnadtmitted was 4,145,000 cwt.; whilst for the halt of the pres t e o n• present year, ending •in January last, the quantity amounted 4,033,000 cwt. So that we consumed at present withinloo,oo o cwt. in half a year of what we for merly c onsumed in a w hole year—(llear, hear). That was a s triking fact, but very eas t. ily . accounted for.— (Hear, hear.) Before the introduction of oreinstigar, and when there was a monopoly in the market, he found by returns that, looking re el; in bond, foreign sugar was 345. 9d. per cwt., at. the whilst hiritish sugar was only 21s. .3d. per cwt., ma ki ng a ' dif f eren ce of 13s. 6 d. p er cwt. to the consumer. In that same year the consumption of sugar reached 4,145,0-i0 cwt., and therefore, in addition to a large revenue, the British consumer was taxed to an extent of no less than 2,790,0004 Put 00 Tou l t of the reductive pf , the 1852. duty wale that whilst the consumer had benefited exertions of the Brazilian, Government But says;ttl Noble r enormously, the - revenue, . instead of suffering, had Earl is in error, wheeein speaking of Cuba, he become greatly the s gainer; so that the Chancellor of the ' that the slave trade is put down, or that at this moment Exchequer. rnigisfwell deciare.that i sys regarded sugar, the it is in course of diminution.—(fleas hear.) Thefae increase in consumption was a marvellous example of re- is, and I regret to say so, that the slave trade of Cuba is clueing duties.--( Elder, hear_ Jeae The benefits of the measure, on the increase; and no two subjects can b e more closely as far as this country was eorkerned, could not be contested I connected than the effects of free trad e i n sugar inthe after that declaration. When foreign sugar was first ad- ; West Lelia 'colonies, and the increase of the slave trade in mated ; they were told that the effect wo u ld b e to destroy, ~Cuba. At this moment, when, as has be en a d m it ted by the the cultivation of sugar in the colonies, a s a l s o to give a Noble Earl, Jamaica is in a state of d ee p depression and fresh impulse to slavery. From that statement he (Earl distress, the steam machinery of Jamaica is being tranbfer-e Grey) at the time entirely dissented, and •stated as .his red in large quantities to Cuba, thus withdrawing it, from the' opinion that the ultimate effect 'would be to promote cultivation of free-labour sugar to the cultivation of slave the abolition o f the slave trade, and to increase, instead labour sugar. I believe there can be no doubt whatever of diminish,, ;.the eu tsivation• of Colonial sugar.—(Hear, the Noble Earl has admitted—that although in some of the hear.) With regard to the slave trade, his Noble Friend colonies there has been an increase in the production Of (Lord Palmerston) when leaving .office was able to con- sugar, yet that in Jamaica there is a state of deep depression gratulate, himself and the country 'tet the practical -extinc- and distress existing, not arising from a diminution of pro Lion 'of the' slave-trade'; and he believed there had ,no -duction, but from the unremunerative prices obtained for the change since then occurred. He was aware that Cabs. produce. The opinion I entertained on this subject in 1846 was now planted by free labour; and a contract had been , I entertain now; and it is, that in the long run it is not pos entered into for th e su pply o f 80,000 free labourers - to 'the Bible for free-grown sugar, except in some very favoured Cuban colony. The next point they were cautioned on was situations, ta compete with the slave sugar of Cuba and the destrtieteen 'of' th e cultivation of sugar, a branch of- •Brazil ; and although it be quite true that at this moment industry,in which any falling-off was certain to make itself there is an increasing amount of sugar imported from Britishmanifest in a very brief period. Noss-, as he had been colonies, yet if the Nuble Earl will look at the Price r t e erested mathis matter, he had compared the averages of Currents, he will see that the increased amount lepree'liet years of protection - from 1839 to 1841- in the is more than compensated by the fall in price, result was a vast increase East Indies, West Indies, and Mauritius, with the three so that the planter has not the ' alternative of years following the complete emancieation of the trade, and abandoning the trade, and at the same time he has no the • in the quantity produced in hope of carrying it on with advantage. But, my Lords, I the three years following complete emancijaation.—(llear.) say that the question of sugar is wholly apart from the quese With respect to British Guiana, the GoverffoVol that colony, tion whether we shall or shall not continue the income-tax in a dispatch d a t e d the 12th of November last , s ai d that the for the.,present year.--(Hear, hear.) Th e Noble Earl has situation of the p ropr i etors was better than it had been for introduced the question of the sugar duties, not apropos to some years past; and that, if they acted prudently, there any measured proposed by her Majesty's Government, or was no reason for a nerally felt with reg P a P rei re i h e en t d h i e n f a il i statement' made or announcement gene to slave grown stiger, but b :reverse. The alarm ge- st given, but because he In suar was not with re- understands, or has heard some rumour, that in another ses eetroot sugar; but he (Earl se nof Parliament her Majesty's Government intend to re- Grey) believed that alarm 'to be perfectly unfounded; for trace past steps with regard to sugar. I apprehend that this even with heavy protective duties he did not think beet- is not a question upon which the Government are called at hrooillit,ecvoeurl,dthcoeinaldaevtee-gwrlhertehive esreugaaer-cmanoeh free-growers. He alas aware that extreme On this point, this moment to make a declaration , more especially ender the alarmed as the engagement we have entered into — namely , that we are not, in Jamaica, and that at this moment the distress, existed in the course of this session, to submit any fiscal or financial severe; but Jamaica, considering the talus of was most measure to the consideration of Parliament. The House will, climate, and the character of the inhabitant to be in a disadvantageous position as compared ought the -soil and therefore, agree with me that nothing is more impolitic, im other colonies. That suffering, however, he believed toh thi es tation of fiscal change, at a time W en it . was impossible to note prudent, or improper than to suggest or hold out any ex'pec arisen partly from the , ravages. tof ; the cholera, buto have discuss them, or to decide upon them until another Perlis froni the planters having listenelljoo much to the advicemoreef ment. The Noble Earl who has just sat down said that coursef tte Noble Lords opposite, and to a disposition to neglect other e s a p r e i e ly ch o o o f o t o he Chancellor of the Exchequer in . the to g ec o te io d t wi eo t vn h er t y he de of improving their condition in favour of a visionary present session shows that the subject of free trade isneces meansattempt to win back prOtection, The Legislature of Jamaica, Now, Ex neglecting remedial Measures, had fixed their eyes upon chequerit was the bounden duty of the Chancellor protection, and nothing else. The result was that whilst or finances of the o c consideration with the revenue of the Ex iinsicdoenrnateicotnedofthe income-tax.. other colonies were progressing, whilst the production of this or that plan, country , setting forth, fo b r but fl e t o p s u h r o p w o 3 e w hoaft equalising I p i r s e i n g progress not the merits of Mauritius was making a gigantic advance, Jamaica showed venue had been, little signs of improvement. Turning to our own country, ' to any measures before the House could be expected to agree he believed that the improvement observable in it was the and the expenditure result of our having liberated its industry from the restric- consequently impossiblethecountry.---(Hear, hear.) It was tions to which a vicious policy had formerly subjected it. queens of duties in the for him to avoid dealing with those e s t s h the of r t e h v e e a r u e - e And yet that great commercial and financia l evolution begun eipecally in respect to arge articles of consumption—more in 1846, and almost completed in 1819 by` the repeal of the of those articles which esugar and corn, and the importation navigation-laws, took place under circumstance ,, the most oouutry. I, ~,,,, forimpossible elargely into the revenue of the Ea disadvantageous. In the first place, the corn-laws were chequer to overlook these facts the Chancellor of the Ex hardly repealed when the .otato disease, which had been the Noble Lord opposite, " Oil,--tcoHear.) But, then, says partially felt during the ..F :Xing autumn, appeared with you admitted that if you were in office t oe recollect that last year tenfold eiolance. Concsure es • with this there was a defi- income-tax." lam ready to admit Jio would reduce the at ciency of corn throughout tie greater part of Europe, and time, and I say so now, if I h ad the means t I said so a t th a t the consequence was that iti Ireland, during the whole of (Hear, hear.) But, subsequ en t to thatof doing so.— declaration, 1846 and pact of 1847, there was an absolute famine, while Majesty's Government having at th e i r command ' her a consid in this country the price of food was high, and distress able surplus, 'thought proper to do aw a y aviteier t followed. In 1847 every man felt apprehensive as to whe- abolition of other taxes, and thereby renderin g the red by the ther the supply of corn would be sufficient to feedthe peo- tion of the incense -tax, which I th en thought uca ple. At one period, about this time, earn sold itr , Blark-lane an impolitic tax, and now think is an imp o li t i c tax; alwtoas for 100 s. a quarter. gether impossible.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore I do not think A NOBLE PEER-1255. a quarter.. - 1 • that the Noble Lord is justified in pointing to any apparent Earl GREY believed at upwards of 1005 a quarter. Added inconsistency on my part because last year I expressed an to this, 8,000,0001. were borrowed for the relief of Ireland, opinion favourable to the gradual reduction of the income and the country had to suffer the effects of the re-action of tax during these times of peace. Yon have, however, de the railway mania and of overtrading in 1845 and 1846, and parted from your - ( general financial system, and I submit during the latter part of 1847 it probably went through more that you must now submit to this tax Par a single year at all disasters than had ever previously befallen it. To complete events, because you have no surplus upon which you can this combination ofadverse circumstances, there was the re- confidently rely.—(Hear.) lam not going to follow the volution which - occurre d i n F rance in the spring of 1848, Noble Lords w h o h ave spo k en f rom th e other side of the and which spread itself from one end of the continent to the House into a general discussion of the abstract measure of other. But under, and, cs he contended, by virtae of the free trade, or what is called our commercial policy. To free-trade policy, the country had successfully passed this one portion of our commercial policy I confess I was a wit tremendous trial. The people su b m itt e d to pr i vations with l i ng party. I w illi ng l y ass i s t e d t o re d uc e the amount of patience and resignation, because they knew they were not our differential duties, because I was desirous of placing the artificially produced, and they met with a speedy reward. home and the foreign producer upon a footing of a real— Industry and commerce revived, and all trace of these fear. not a nominal—equality—l was desirous of intro ful calmities was lost in an inconceivably short space of ducing a bond fide competition, so as to give a fresh time. And what was the result in a financial point of view? stimulus to this as well as to other countries. lam not igno- Why that the country had made provision by more than rant, nor does it take me at all by surprise, when I . am 974,000/. for the 10,000,0001. borrowed in 1847 and 1848. Such told that so far from diminishing, it had greatly increased, a result wag not only a subject of congratulation by those who the amount, of consumption. Whether the principle upon maintained the free-trade policy which led to it, but by those which this system was founded was introduced by the late who paved the way prior to 1816. For himself, he rejoiced Sir It. Peel or any other party—to that principle lam to have taken part in thecommercial discussions w hi c h h a d w illi ng to g i ve my utmost support, provided it inflicts no preceded and accompanied the measures of free trade. When injustice upon any party, nor, entai's any loss upon the re the steceess of these free-trade measures had been so corn. venue.—(Hear, hear.) It may, no doubt, be practicable to pletely established, it was natural that the country should give the people a greater command of the s comforts and feel much anxiety as to whether the powerful party to which luxuries of life. No doubt, if the reduction of duties will do the Noble Earl (Dean belonged 'intended to tamper with this, and not act unjustly to other classes, it must be a them. The Noble Earl had made an important declaration matter of rejoicing to any man that the price of these ar to-night, but up to this moment the country were as m uc h tides is brought so low as to come within the reach of the at a loss to know what the views of her Majesty's Govern- masses of the population: I will not deny but that there has ment were as the first day that they took office. The ,Noble been, a great boon conferred upon the consumers of this Earl, on entering.offies, had said he would not attempt the country by the diminished price of sugar, consequent upon re-imposition o f a d a t e , on corn unless he had the powerful the reduction of the duties. No one doubted but that such a concurrence of the country. The Chancellor of the Exche- measure would give a greater addition to the comforts of the quer, however, had told his constituents on his re-election people. ' But the question -which we have to consider is, not that the agriculturists w ere to have relief by a countervailing singly or simply whether a great advantage has ,been con duty on' corn, as he called it, or by some .other cheap and ferred upon the class of consumers in this country, but simple mode of relief, and that the Government were deter- whether that advantage is bought by an act of injustice and mined to afford that relief. rot long after, the Right Hon. spoliation to other parties, and by involving in ruin a large Gentleman made a most able speech in the other House of class of those who, upon the faith of your own Act of Parka- Parliament on introducing the very resolution which was ment, embarked their all in the cultivation of the article the the foundation of the present Bill. In that speech the Right duties upon which you have so reduced? - (Hear, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen made a most careful and admirable state- When those things are done, it is difficult to reverse them. _ . But I confess in the face of this great advantage which the people have derived from the importation of slave- grown sugar, I would much rather have seen a smaller advantage derived by the unproved cultivation and encouragement given to those who have a natural and rightful claim upon us than an increased advantage by an amount of cheapness gained by what I thought, and still think, was an act of in justice—an act the tendency of which was to stimulate and encourage the production of sugar by means of slavery, and by that of increasing the infaseous traffic in slaves.--(dear, hear.) I do not ecny that it is possible that the consump tion of the comforts and necessaries of life has been - increased in consequence of the reduced price of corn ; but that such in cease has been in anything like the p a pordons staled by the. Noble Lord opposite, I say is_conaary to the fact; and if I ' had the figures here before me I could show that they have been grossly exaggerated. Noble Lords opposite have talked of an increase of 10,000,000 quarters of corn in the Consump tion of the people of this country. Now that calculation I • believe is taken upon an average of years which includes • some years of famine, in which of coarse the imports had been considerably larger. The Duke of ARGYLL was here understood to say that the highest amount of corn consumed within the years quoted were 11,0' 1 0,000 quarters. . , The Earl of DERBY—But even supposing that all that quantity has been consumed, you are not to suppose that that is a gross increase of the consumable , produce of this country. In the first place, the average fin. portation before the ye ar 1646 • was, I think, 3,000,000, or 4,000,000 of quar ters, and if I deducted these from. the 10,000.CC0 alleged to have been consumed, will reduce it •to 6,000,000 or 7,003,00 1 of quarters. I say that from these 10,000,000 quarters, assuming this to be the quantity consumed upon the average in the years quota ,you must deduct something between 3,000,000 and .4,000,000 of Enclo-ore quarters which were imported the .ear before- that i n tte. cultiva which the alteration of the law was made. That leaves an increase of consumption to , the amount of something like 6,000,000, not of wheaten hour, but of corn 'of a ll descriptions. The Noble Lord asks me whether I believe that 801,009 acres of wheat land had gone out of cultivation in the face-of the immense enclosures that have taken place. large to.„ r d s Portionof adding those t a tion. They "were the enclosure of lands generally w ho, ActsNo ,d did d n tnhaethfii nothing t whateverplae, a were held in common. But they are just as much ' in cu vation now as they were before those Acts were Althoueli no doubt 800,000 acres hail not gone out Passed ' 'ration, does the Noble Lord mean to say that the of culti no diminntion-in the amount of produce re has been Ireland to this counter 7:.: Why, there "has been from like a diminution of 300,l 00 quarters .a 8 something last 'One years of what was usual' • wheat within the mean to say that there has been no Y • received. • I -do not gumption 'et torn ; but I say that increase hi the - con- such a fact that there has been an whe n Yon argue upon ing powers of the people to addon to theconsum quarters, that you . g roa ,k, e an like 10,000,000 • creased consu-npue e " purchxaggerate. But t e l 'is-- - -this lightly over this part of the ? The Noble Lord passed very well for hi m n f i` the subject. It mieti i bo that we can afford to $ r or the large !proprietors, - to asaY the pewee e f _receive le i ss n order afford the nugget consuming more —we incomes. But there ore--w e shall still have suthelent lords and farmers— is a large class who are hall Ja n i t also suffer. xim so that when one suffers, the oth ar i4ol . l " -- They are small r $ *hat is the condition or d•that--- iere whom this loss falls with cultivating ibeir 'evin landi Ifr- - .____ of this class have i.e with a double weight: - 10 , ,aft,i1 1n .,. Wien, that . the ha clave i3O pressed - upon bi0di";7 6 ,;, u 13, 1 :-.. tort - of the soil t ' n. this beene utterly e xtingraill! .. e wes to seek a refuge in other e country, end bite! la a b!le tifeib I ited , with the greatest satisfmmi(llearieee' i rt - terhelliin , that the labouring classes acoon, err a. :1 be.., ikreimble erdeent ,, cif prosperity, and I should are enjoy mg 0 a ac en that would desire by any be the last m u of an y ,pertiele of that measure, to depriVe t 'O em r ,„ - kkrityorthenabouring prosperity. •-net tui do tt li t ediythelA . • ' e'it ' 'of - classes is wholly epeirdant lit'? • ,prosp r y the em -1 ployer. If, then, yea diminiglii ilDelaUp !gun employed, the ' labourer, sooner or later, will fail in obtaming employment, and on him ultimately the injury' will fell., T . ll have not been diminished Tie wages, no doubt, • iii A -portion te the reduced price Of 'dinie,O; ''bitt that it mere to say that-thelmrdett is at. present. sueteimaa. by , _the...bri-kgaZia of keAantOuid has not, yet been cast egbon t " and the ers of the labourer. This I believe to be the feet; - a . e • consequence is that the labourers-are -epkra it-i: a l so el/A4-41a g g aa - of -Woe perity.—(Hear, heara)-'l course of the last-two ~or. three years both tenant and land lord have made ex traordinary exertions to improve the •of the land. The stimulus of necessity has ope cultivation ttn _ 4 , a to a certain extent most whialesomely , teed nPou' ti ffr,' ic." neYerthelese anS l OV i l l e t t r ag eC r ''' And a have.. with great severity, oppres dish a nd.... -s w• very great doubts whether came , although great expenditure is undertaken by 1 in enanY • I thoseletaasess the great portion of the outlay is net a lose to ietor and the tenant, although' at the 'pret time ' the propr it at to the labourer. - I do not deny but in the course of the last few years there has b eat een t oeit increase of our articles of' exportation. I am not going' to enter into the question Now. in refer ence to the discover y of gold in various places b u t of this I have no doubt, if ie had, licit, been for these i great a nd increasing discoveries, and the..rge 'mile* of gold into this country with rapidly increasing speed, you would have teen a different state of comme rcial affairs here than what you see now.—(Hear, hear.) And although it m ay be quite true that the amount of our imports has largely increased, as well as our exports, although it may be true that the amount of our productions has greatly increased, 1 very much doubt, if we could look into the balance-sheets of our commercial men, we should see that increased amount of traffic of these'exports and import s ac. companied with a corresponding profit. On the contrary with the largest amount of trade almo st ever known, it Ca ' been less profitable to th em durin g the last few years than 5 any period within !heir experience, except in year- t in s As a proof of the prosperity of the country, the Noble panic. are fond of quoting statistical returns of the le Lords reduced amount of pauperism. The Noble Lord opposite the year 1848, and congratulated the country commenced with mouse reductiou of pauperism sin e country on the im int fair to take the year 1848 since that period. Well, but caleulations? In taking u this a starting post for these have had a vivid P his part of the argument we declamationß from the Noble Earl who has just sat down, exceptionable character, ' t that was a year of am $ 111 which all classes almost were involved in -,.absolute ruin. That was a year of famine, so that the amount of b fairly said to be g data um . ~ pauperism then eallue l e .. , "" Timacti you bays ti ;igh.t to .CalCUlate 19Y merit of the advantages of free trade; but unfortunately the Noble Earl opposite, not long afterwards, made what he called a supplemental speech, and to a festive audience de clared that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made a Most excellent speech, but that he had not tohched upon the subject of the advantages of a compromise with the landed interest; and the Noble Earl on that occasion went on to insist upon the necessity of some compromise being entered into wish the landed interest on account of the advantages which had been afforded to the Consumer, In the course of this somewhat unmet proceeding, the Noble Earl informed the assembled citizens that the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was only an imperfect statement of the views of the Government, and that another important part of those views ought not to be lost sight of. Unfortunately this was not all, for after this supplementary speech the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that he had been very much misunderstood-that be had given no (minions in his budget-speech, and that he in tended to act upon all the principles he had asserted when in opposition. This was a somewhat startling proposition, produced, perhaps, by murmurs in the camp. But this was not all. 'Th ere had appeared various addresses from the adherents of the Government. Even gentlemen holding office had stated in their addresses to constituents very contradictory:: views of the policy supposed to be held. One Right Honourable Gentleman, not in the Cabinet, said that he accepted office only in the full conviction that the Noble Earl would reverse the policy of Sir Robert Peel; and that Right Hon. Gentleman still remained in office. But, thanks to the vigorous application of the screw by his (Earl Grey's). Noble Friend (Earl Granville), a statement that it was not the intention of the Government to re-impose a duty on corn had been reluctantly extorted. There was something else, however, ih the back ground. What it was the contrivers did not say; but he (Earl Grey) thought he knew something of the nature of it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in speakifig of this scheme, said it was something in comparison with which the duty on corn would be lees costly, less inconvenient, and more simple. If that were so, he (Earl Grey) said, let them go back to the duty on corn. But he thought there ought to be an end to this 'ambiguity and studied concealment. If the Noble Lord and his supporters believed they had been all along wrong,-let them say as much - (Hear, hear)—if they believed they had been right, let them discuss the question in a straight - forward manner. It was not right that a Go vernment which was to compose ill-Will, reconcile town and country, and for ever heal past differences, should,'in order to serve some pitiful electioneering purposes, .keep their views concealed. As a straightforward declaration was the most manly and best for theinterests of the country, so it was the best for the s'rength and stability of the Adminis tration.—(Hear, hear) This was a question on which the Government had no right to shrink from explanation. BY explanation the Noble Earl mightincur reproach for ha vin g grossly deceived hi mse lf or otherei . or, in the reckles of party objects, he might 14,A,aatrificed what he knew an 9 be the best interests of the country. On the qberebt. .d, la n pursuitto might have erred from blindaess or Waa 0f.../Vfam judgment.. judg ment. either case little confidee t nit would be Wel:area ci'' between two alterna tives—want Th . e4Ahl,Earl, Aug tbAreby incur the penalty I 'agedginedor levachrosf must submi,..6 4, and lie N mu sa Wl 2t r'h a d pdrsued, for ' the i candour. To one he I due to the erron p Y pis views tte,heavier it 1 the longer he attemptedrto disguise , halt he cowl not pscape, and I last six years. Fr C oni s t ' b ee ae u _y rl ould be. The Earl of 1) l . ..-- . , _ ..ne.,.wc,.. ___, 'able Earl faz...h - 3a...obiere um -1 temaeting r x - - aly Lorded cannot,lad t i llank the be has name a—(frear, hear, and alaugh)-but l al t te ru rn st atre m s ay my Noble Friends, and my collea g ues in the other Hou se of be permitted to say , on behalf of m yself and Parliament, that I do not think we shall be driven to accept 'either of them.—(Cheers.) My Lords, with due respect to the Noble Earl, I must take the liberty of repeating the opinion that a great part of this discussion, and more especi ally the greater pert of the speech your Lord s hi ps have just i s i n a great measure, if not alto gether, irrelevant to quest i on under debate.—(Hear, hear)—th at question . ' t h h e e ard , we shall' renew for a single year an objectionable being whether, considering the . financial condition of the 0001.?_year, of ~ the country with a deficiency, this nd, probably, next year of 5,0(10, (Hear, relevant e f Lordeil say, in a debate on the introduction : has e e :n :: :4, dbioaily., .2,0007 1 t suc h a Bill for such a purppse, I do not think it is p . e ia cia l l v ly hic a l l thethe sta,!:,,(l,:mtralt .to enter upon a discussion of the whole commercial policy snore ees ' knows, o t w ilt s i , ' m from n t t r ie ' . tl le circumstances M have been placed, and the eircuicistaiace have taken office, th a t a full and s under whi c h t h ey of the subject on their part is impossible.—(rear.) complete discussion greater portion of the speech of the Noble . Earl,— ilear.) ;site refers to a power wholly irrelevant to the I must say, continuance of the income. tax—l question of the trade i a sugar. And, my Lords, while on mean the effects of free Noble Earl, with a candour for which the one hand the mitted that the great revolution in the I thank him, ad the.cotuitty did not take place at an earliereommercial policy of and consequently does not refer at all to the peric l i t thill4le4G, proposi tions of Sir Robert Peel's policy from 18 the earlier the same tijne asked the question whetherl2 to 1846, he has at of her Majesty's Government to it is the intention com mercial policy of Sir Robert Pepellr . sue or abandon the question by an elaborate argument and he illustrates that sugar duties. Now, my Lord ton the subject of the Earl and your I St I must remind the Noble Lordships that the abolition of differential t duties on sugar was no part of tl no part of his propositions ; and 1? Policy of Sir Robert known that when the proposition w tis perfectly well late made by her Majesty Government, Sir Rubert Peel s tance :i , tith the reatest reluc was induced to conser t to the changenot because that measure wee wise, equitable, or because be bad to just, but choose between the adoption of olitic course of proceeding, and the expulsion an unjust a h n e d r unk teiest Majesty late Government from Office ; and of her feel accordingly took the generous course, but I think impolitic course, of supporting his successors andopponents, although adopting a policy to which he was ' •opposed. Therefore do not himself . let the Noble Earl the abolition of and the country claon 'Robert the differential duties portion of Sir on sugar as a porWith Peel's Hear, bear.) 1 free trade or commercial policy.-- - ( regard to the effect of that measure. lam sorry to sa i j i r en think the Noble Earl is under some inioapprehen slave trade, he speaks of the almost total cessation of the ln the first and attributes that cessation to free trade.dl Lords, place, he is wrong in poi at of fact. Undoubtedly, y of ' o m ur y cruisers by a vigorous and actila eration on the Pa=t t f Africa and —by the adoption of c on on the coas o put down • and Brazil, the ave trade hoe been very much , lo pincere Of late pare our efforts )34tTe. Puoa , a ided ky o.