The Sun. — London, England, 1852-05-25 00:00:00

-ee-law Board did was simply to issue to those Parishes rules and regulations for the relief of the poor, reserving at the same time that power over the local Offioers which was necessary to their very indepere deuce, but not venturing to break through the censtitu time established under those local acts. It the Poor-law Board,__ ' was to exempt places under local Acts from these 5,,1es and regulatio ns , un d er w h at p re t ence cou ld t h at maard be maintained at all for the supervision of the boards of guardians? For the reasons he had stated he 'basted the House would not assent to the motion of the Noble Lord, seeing that the Noble Lord had made out Ile' case in support of it. a , Sir G. PECHELL sa id th e Ri g ht H onoura bl e Gen tleman (Sir J. Trollope) had attempted to throw doubts Vert the statements of the Noble Lord, and had road letters from certain discontented persons, whom he called the " parish," and then he said the parishes in question were demanded to be relieved from the control of the vestry. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had failed to show anything like discontent among the in habitants of those parishes with the existing mode o 'Government. The conduct pursued by the Right honourable Gentleman in reference to this question 'was monstrous. The Right Hon. Gentleman had re- Plied to the Noble Lord just as if the Noble Lord bad Made the motion before the House for party purposes. Nothing could be more unfair than that, for the Noble Lord, 11 0 (Sir G eorge P echel l ) an d t h ose w i t h w h om th e y ac t e d, bad been for a length of time pressing upon different Governments to give boards of guardians that control over their expenditure which they ought to have; and li e contend e d t h at f rom 1837 t o M arc h, 1852, with ' one exception, no motion had been made in that House in r egard to the management of the poor under local Acts, 'With a view merely to embarrass the Government for the time beiu g . He warned the Right Hon. Baronet that if !. 143 &ester& of interference with towns und e r the opera tion of local A c t s was cont i nue d , i t would C 41130 such an amount of remonstrance, that sooner or latter redress Would be inevitable. It was within his own knowledge ;o wn in th e parish of Alverstoke, although it had been ;own by th e Poor-law Inspectors themselves that it ex ceedingly well managed, the Poor-law Board had lan sued on that parish such rules and regulations that it required a lawyer and a special pleader to understand them. Having called the attention of the House to the Various reports on the subject, be trusted that the motion of the Noble Lord would be successful, and be would only propose to add to it such words as would exempt evrTirhth"peration of the Commissioners those parishes c wer e incorporat e d b y the 22d Geo. 111 ., c . 3 3. H e trusted that, at least, he should receive such an amount of support from Hon. Members as would induce the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to stay the t b i r ese ds of the P oor -l aw Commissioners with respect to .in corporated parishes. of the BAINES sa id t h at , as h e b e li eve d t h e amen d ment "` the Noble Lord the Member for Marylebone to be t' 141 hstan tally that the s ouse should now declare that hen ceforth the jurisdictn of the Poor -lap Commis. *loners should not extend to any parish which was un der the management of a board of guardians formed under a local Act, he should feel it his duty to oppose Ig the general Th ere cou ld b e no d ou bt whatever but that general Poor-law Amendment Act the Legisla ture that the powers of the Poor-law Commis :rners should e x t en d t o p er ish es governed by loc a l e l l - The se p owers cons i ste d i n t h e genera l regu l at i on and managem en t o f wor kh ouses , an d i n t h e a p poin t ment Gt Paid o ffi cers for the better relief of the poor, the ard at the same time possessing the power of direct luk the tenure by which such o ffi cers should hold pit ° face, and upon eve ry occ asion upo n w hi c h th e _ a w Bill h a d been before Parliament these Po seers had been preserved to the Commissioners. the hear.) In order to preserve uniformity in °we r e, abagement of workhouses, as well as for the se -8....tey of the officers, it was absolutely necessary that e _''', l Powers should exist. But at the same time there teas nothing in these powers which could be considered ss oPPosed t he le a d ° the boards of guardi a ns ; on the contrary, had hop c onsidered during the whole of the time th et he e ake • °f ace, that his duties were rather to co-ope __ nth than to controul the boards of guardians. In Mit?▪ Pt instatces, however, he had found that the com port!,of the Poor-law officers had originated in mere Parts reuds, or in an attempt to reduce the salaries of 'ee officers below the amount which he thought requisite m a order to secure efficiency. He believed that he had _le several occasions prevented by his interference man Worthy men from losing their situations in consequence y Pebthese attempts on the part of boards of guardians. aring the time he bad held office, he had never inter -I!red in p ar i s h es un d er l ocal acts, unless at the desire of the guardians themselves, or in cases where he had ?aeon to believe, upon clear and satisfactory evidence, tthat there were abuses in the management of the _ a r iebs to which it was his duty to a ppl y such re -11,731 as the law afforded him the means of doing. h Member for Brighton threw out against him what I e -t eemed a personal imputation. He read to the ' de emed a list of places with which, he said, the House sot interfered so as to abolish their local control, vs _ he laid special stress on the word " Hull." No w 01 ; 4 e t Were the facts? Ho had not been two years in th -1 When he was informed that the administration of pepoor -law was essent i ally defect i ve i n H u ll ; t h at two nis had taken place there owing to the want of pro precauti nice, eh. Notwithstanding the representations int eo „ w ere made and urged upon him, he declared his Ives note of putting in force the consolidated workhouse the and persevered in that intention—and what was fat s ir s eqeence? Why, that all parties now agreed rtb was the best thing which could have happened n ee _ (uear, hear.) If his administration had not honest, he had no claim to recommend him. — . 1.8 .) The second ground on which he rested his ,Poettion to the motion of his Noble Friend was this. w e li ra e rte r e e ver e in England 3 75 parishes, whose affairs re ti e _g o ola .t ed bfy directors, under local Acts. The o p al: y o these parishes had been long and li t z d 4 go under the regulation of the Poor law _ _A s very small number still regulated their 1 1 ,,"a . u.11.1x . In a great many cases this had been done ce-" u petitton of the guardians themselves. In other rterliament had interfe red because gr ave . abuses 1- Th.. 111 Drought tinder the notice of the Poor-law Board. snat 'would be the effect then of adopting this resole aorteese, That to e a at it be an instruction to the Committee to the provision for exempting from the jurisdiction of th Poor -law Commission an Poor w hereof pa rish , the management o r hereof is regulated by a board of directors poerVians, under a local Act or local Acts of Pa,rtia fete" It would be not only to protect parishes from I so -re inteulerence; but it would be to undo all that has eu, doa e his t . and throw upon rati on , these parishes the sole adoei -44,011 -o f t he paor-laste—Mear, hear.) Another 1, 08: „ $) Why it was impossible he could support this pro ne" rt Was this: —If the se parishes governed by local ;1.' 4 Were to be exe pte ,he should be glad to know on hat grounds Parlia ment ra could maintain a jurisdiction is iher boards of guardians? the Th e highest noblemen of 'end acted as chairmen in the sittings of the boards oeeatulaerocilitens. The Duke of Richmond, the Right Hon. * Qua art the Secretary of State for the Colonies, as Rot:th 3 a host of other distinguished p ersons, . took part administration of the law in their respective die ip an d if th e y did not find it a humiliation to put ti t "'roe the consol i dated rules, he did not see how 0010-Ee_htletnen of St. Pancras or Marylebone could ca a --(Hear , hear,) p_tain PECHELL assured the Right Hon. Gentle hu„l,ll he did not mean any imputation whatever, and $e cot stress upon the word Hull, it was merely to e s ;tr t his attention, he being Member for that town. ••':e On the contrery, had endeavoured to pay him the 41ghest ccrmplieeareht,`and his regret was that he had not remained long Mr. LASLE TT l t o le ffi an ee k . ed the Nobl e Lord for havin g brought th e ' subject under the n ot i ce of the House. He had som e experience ofth e working of the p oor l aw , lied he considered that some I tecessarr.amendment in the law was Mr, J. A. SMITH believed that Tie poor-law had effected great improvements; but at same time he moat express considerable regret atuthetme same in which h er for Maryle- P l e Motion of the Noble Lord the ° ° ll o had been received. It appeared _ r _m oo th l at the i th ip e this Public hart a right to understand on whatie &terferetice complained of took place. r boater, which he represented, the Poor-l a e c A s e e of 11.7 r tered;' he did not object, nor was the condu w ct of the . ell complained of. The guardians of Chi c h ester had worried on their business without any complaints what direr being urged against them. As this was so, he Ida no t know on what principle interference had taken atil'tee H e wanted to know why, _when parishes were lep eA „ e tont, Chichester should have been excluded. %lull : ell:WE w illi n gly bore testimony to the ability ti ll i' r e n esa which characterised the administration e e l i te ll y ;tut Hon. Gentleman, of which there never had been hop e "°mPlaint • With regard to the parish of Maryle ee. k _ .• *oak he admitted their affairs were not in in t , h a a n t d st a a h te ns h e e s took Wish them to be; abuses had . crept e ras, ii e - eg time to correct. • - p law board had interfered Wttl i the , un derstood the Poor - law With regard to S tP an °l the b: l33 PloYment of their own servants.. A majority racl uoioa erd of guardians of the parish hadcomemeptlooythede th ee , that one of the public servants ani s was it • sed ; nworthy of holding offi ce , L London had inter ered ma tte general board sitting in and he was dis ttnionahaPPlied fora mandamus to compel oe his re- m in m st o i i i aense ontiata.w, 58, he considered, contrary to co the "gttellt tralerdated to excite discontent and h H ai o a u r s r: riouid allow tievcountry. He hoped, therefore, t ight 14 00,, instruction to be agreed to, s e nd tl e t . te s ra u g' these "eotleman would introduce a clause, 17rilpiajorityPollitahhes from the powers of the board ' TROLL "e ratepayers required it. t ad ti tuh ns of p et _ p OPE said neither in the case of Alver ai the orde 'mortis, of Marylebone, or of Chichester St by i ts rs been signed by him; they had been 13:p.r,,Predecessor in office. ;:_oor-law reminded the House that when the "O of " leas last to be renewed the greatest por ettepr4rol33eletebylth'esegernbers who now sat upon the Go leta Positio n th not only spoke but voted in favour of moben, at the board should cease and determine. ved believe s it w th at th e the the present Judge-Advocate who Zuttis_ lie Bill be read a second time that day three or °4l d hot e, therefore, had hoped that this amendment 0 the s t. I , o e been opposed. The board of guardians o f kers, / t i ler's union desired to dismiss one of their 0h leer s , b o lue general board said they might ply their the g o • th ey should not dismiss them without first % use ttheir consent; and the board now petitioned cl er a i Poar.l o be excluded from the operation of the ge ererneeenr e The Strand Union -was an inatune , l of bbl e and „ control not having prevented the most hor "Y Pa h l fasting occurrences which could take place eel th e c establishment. With regard to Meryl°. is of o n e body was stamped as - a political body by the 4 11 0 thi s , e ° f the Members of the Government. It was th 'ye-there was no returning officer in Maryle _ e returning officer was the churchwarden; there k t he Oth e ° r behurchvvardens; one s was elected by the vestry, es, y(* , he Crown. Lord Pirtle l i eucc, ded Lord Il istr at t oil (> continued in it, t;,` :1 ider %tit ns; but the mo 'donatni 3 ,- oble Lord, the pre -I°ller of W ork , , fo un d there was a vacancy, Poor-]g, THE which occurred annually, that moment Lord Portman was summarily dismissed; no communication was m a d e to him; Lord Portman was is the country, and on his return be found a notice on his table, that he had been superseded by the Government; there was not one word of explanation, and the political partisen of the Govern ment in the parish was instituted in hie stead. The parishes complained that they were nbt allowed to vita nage their own affairs, and that mandamuses wore tip plied for to coerce them. He thought, under the °dr cumstances, that the motion of his Noble Friend was a very fair one, and he hoped he would press it to a di vision. —(Hear.) Mr. JACOB BELL vindicated the conduct of the parish of Marylebone a► some length, and contended that the aspersions which had been cast upon them had been undeserved. Mr. HENLEY said that the House had nothing to do with the management, good or bad, of the Mar) iebone vestry. The only question before the House was whether the authority of the Poor law Board ought to be ex tended to parishes having local Acts. Ho had heard no reason why the exemptions should be continued, and he should, therefore, vote against the proposal of the Noble Lord. Mr. WAKLEY raw no reason why a continuance Act should be now introduced, inasmuch as the Poor-law Board would not expire till next year. What was wanted was a poor-law court, with a poor-law judge, where applications from different parishes could be heard and decided in pnblic, and then in a short time you would have a code of laws for your guidance. Ho trusted that the Government would relinquish this Bill. Mr. W. WILLIAMS hoped that the Right Honour able Baronet opposite would consent to withdraw all in terference with parishes and their affairs, or that the Howe would ' support the motion of the Noble Lord (Lord Dudley Stuart). Lord EBRINGTON would suggest to the Right 'don. Baronet that he should look very carefully into the state of the metropolitan workhouses, in some of which there bad been of late a very alarming amount of mor tality. He (Lord Ebrington) would give his support to the Bill. The Marquis of GRANBY was quite tired of hearing the uncontradicted statements of Hon. Members respect ing the universal employment of the lower orders.—(oth,- oh, and Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Finsbury said that there was less pressure in the workhouses in consequence of the increased employment, but could the same be said of some parts of Ireland, where they were told the assistance of the soldiery was required to m sin. tain order? The Honourable Member for Montrose had told them the other evening that there were thousands of unemployed persons in Scotland who ought to be sent to Australia, and to-morrow night there was no be a ball in London in aid of those who were out of em ployment in this city. With these facts before him, ho confessed that he was tired of hearing it asserted that there were no persons out of employment.—(Hear.) Lord R. GROSVENOR was one of those who ha d voted for the original Bill. He should be sorry that all central power should now be withdrawn, for he thought that the poOr would suffer by it. It appeared there was a doubt with regard to the law. This might be an in strur ment of very great torture to the ratepayers. Therefore he would vote that an amendment should be made. Sir DE LACY EVANS offered a few observatio7as in favour of his amendment, which, however, could not be moved. He said that to leave the nomination of the officers in the vestry, and the removal of them not in the vestry, would be to take from the vestry ail its au Liao rity together. If subordinate officers in the army c ould say to their superior that his orders were not legal, and that their legality must be shown before they were teem. plied with, they coul I not get on. And this wa s not u ll for if the arguments which he opposed were good,, the whole of the vestries should be put au end to, and com plete centralization estahliAied. At any rate, it was quite clear that the two systems could not go together. Lord DUDLEY STUART explained that he did not mean anything beyond making those parishes which had local Acts independent of the Poor-law Board. The House then divided, when the numbers were,— Ayes ... . . 33 Noes ... ... 112 Majority ..„ —79 The House then resolved itself into a Committee, :Mr BERNAL in the chair. On clause 1 being proposed, Lord DUDLEY STUART moved that the blank be filled up with the words " filty-thfee".instead of " fifty four," his object being to limit the duration of the Bill to one year. Mr. SOTHERON thought it would be much beater to extend the time to five years, the period . for which the original Bill,was passed, and gave notice of his intention to move the insertion of words to that effect. After a few worth from Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Abel Smith, and Sir J. Trotlope, The Committee divided on the proposition that the blank be tilted up with the words " fifty-four." For the amendment ... 26 Against it ... ... 72 Majority for " fifty-four" ... —46 Oa our return to the gallery, Mr. J. A. S bII ra complained of certain new regula tions which had been thrust upon the Chichester board of guardians since the Right Hon> Gentleman opposite came into office. Sir JOHN TROLLOPE explained that these regula tions, though sent out by him, had been prepared by his predecessor. The Bill then went through Committee. Sir BENJAMIN HALL wished to ask the Hon. Member for Wiltshire whether he intended to take any other opportunity of moving that the Poor-law Bill be continued for five years? Mr. SOTLIERON took that opportunity of giving no tice that, on the report being brought up, he would move that the Bill be continued for five Years. Sir BENJAMIN HALL said he would give -such a proposition all the opposition in his power, and hoped the matter would be brought on at a period of the evening when it could be fully discussed. Mr. WALTER also would oppose that proposition. If the Bill was to be continued from time to time the oftener it was brought under revision the better. The House then resumed; the report to be brought up on Thursday. The Turnpike Trusts Arrangements Bill passed through Committee The Differential Dues Bill was read a third time and passed. On the question that the Passengers' Act Amendment Bill be further considered, Mr. CARDWELL reminded the Right Hon. Colonial Secretary that his Hon. Friend the Member for South Lancashire and himself had a clause to bring forward relating to the passenger-fee levied on emigrant vessels. He did not complain of the lateness of the hour (it was now a quarter past one o'clock), but the debate would occupy some time; however, if tno Right Hon. Gentle man WiNhed to go on he (Mr. Cardwell) was ready. Sir JOHN PAKINGTON thought the debate might go on; he did not think it would occupy much time. Mr. WILLIAM Bt OWN hoped the consideration of the Bill would be postponed. He expected great sym pathy from Hon. Members opposite, as his clause would to some extent relieve the shipping interest, but the House was very thin at present, and most of the Members he referred to were absent. _ The Bill was then postponed to Thursday next. The Committee on the Grand Juries (Metropolitan Districts) Bill, was postponed to Friday next, after some remarks from Mr. Stuart Wortley, objecting that the Bill went too far, and suggesting that it would be better to retain the power of summoning grand juries with limited powers. The Ecclesiastical Courts (Criminal Jurisdiction) Bill passed through Committee. The Inland Revenue Office Bill, the Hereditary Casual Revenues in the Colonies Bill, the Excise Summary Pro ceedings Bill, and the Bishopric of Quebec Bill were severally read a second time and ordered to be com mitted. The Nlasters'. Act Extension Bill was committed pro forma in order to be re-committed on Friday next. The Nisi Prius Offiet3rs (Deficiency of Fees, &c.) Bill passed throegh Committee. Mr. STAFFORD moved for, and obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 11 Geo. IV., 0.20. Mr. G. A. HAMILTON moved for, and obtaieed leave to bring iu a Bill to alter and amend certain Acts relating to the Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues of the Crown. The House then adjourned at 20 minutes before Two o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 1110 LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat 0n 24. the Woof sack at Frye o'clock. Lord MR. COBBETT'S CASE. CAMPBELL presented a petition from Mr. Jesse Oldfi eld, law with reg ard to of the present state of the pauperis a nd !c' actions brought in formd Mr. Oldfield stated that he alteration in the law. praying for w ritssome alteration of habeas corpus, and well. known proceed ings had been a party to the ori ginal Mr . Cobbstt had been m " prison, and that since that time— s in consequence of which committed to the Queen's Bench the commencement of habeas corpus had October, 1839—above 100 obb vast number of been moved for by Mr. Cobbetr, a o n e f d all in forma actions brought against him by Mr. numberttßiri paitperis, and at the present time there w et e t ' pend ing no less than seven actions, also broughtreagn:iwns him by Mr. Cobbett. Atter a lz-w words from the LORD CHANCE LLOR the Lord CA :' PBELL moved for a return of of writs of habeas corpus moved for by Mr. Cobbe the Ist October, 1839. co The return was agreed to. PETITIONS. The Duke of NEWCASTLE presented a petition e f r om builders and oth i ers in the enfranchisem ent o opyho th m etropolis, praying f or lds. ropolis, The Archbishop of CANTERBURY • presented a l petition against the p oo th grant. L . • .tha On the motion of Lord CE)L n ? e li s E nd ST pl E s ß sed , stock in t Trado Bill was reed a third 1 On the motion of the same Noi:Etsealthe High way Raes Bill wAs read a third time and c Oa the motion for the bringing up the' report on" the Comrom Law Procedure Bill, -. Lord-LYN DIIURST said that a rurcour Government,dgon e abroad that this Bill was di s tasteful to t h e fitin Com. and .that th e y h a d retar d e d t h e p ro gress 0 mitt-e. Ho would app : , a l to the Noble and Lea and Learned Lurds opposite a b at h er t hi s was the ease, could to whether, in tact, they h a d not d one a ll they facilitate its , progress. •In fact, had ,it not been owing to the uufortunater illness of the Noble and Learned Lord on the - Woolsack the Bill would long ago have' passed through this House. The Bill itself was esloulated to be of gieat service to the pubic, and would tit) tvnay with a great number of .teehuicaltries whist;: at present very much inilwdea the due administration of justice. The Noble sod Learned Lord proceeded to quote as number of instances in which ►S U the ends of justice bad been defeated by , the court hay ing pushed the technicalities of the law to a most absurd extent. Lird CRANWORTH concurred in the extreme im• portance of the measure. The report was then received, end the Bill was or thred to be read a third time on Thursday next. PROPERTY-TAX CON rINUA'NCE BILL. The Earl of DERBY, in moving the second reading of the abave Bill, spoke as follows :—My Lords, although it has been suggested by a Noble Friend of mine that it would be desirable to read the Property Tax Continuance Bill merely pro farina, with a view of postponing the discussion upon it in going into Committee, I think under the peculiar circumstances in which we are placed as regards public busi ness such a course would be attended with inconvenience to Noble Lords on the opposite side of the House, as well as to some on the Ministerial side It is important that this Bill should receive the Royal assent with as little delay as possi ble. I therefore submit to your Lordships the proposition that you will now read a second time the Bill for the contin uance of the property and income-tax for one year longer. In bringing this subject before your Lordships it will not of course be expected that I should go into any details as to the state of the revenue and expenditure of the country, or as to the particular reasons which have induced the Government to propose the renewal of this tax. Your Lord ships must be well aware that at the commencement of the present session, upon the change of the Government, there was a general understanding on the part of this as well as the other House of Parliament that with the exception of such measures as were not likely to lead to serious differences of opinion, no business was to be brought forw ird by her Majesty's Ministers. Her Majesty's Government have even declared that in the present session of Parliament it was not their intention to introduce any measure that would be likely to involve any serious conflict of opinions, and more especially in regard to questions affecting the finances of the country.—(Hear, hear.) There was, my Lords, more than this understanding—there was a distinct declaration that no measure materially affecting the commercial or fiscal condi tion of the country would be introduced into Parliament this session. The question, then, for the consideration of her Majesty's Government, was not whether any alteration could be made in the fiscal or commercial policy of the country, or whether -they could make such alter tions in the revenue and expenditure of the country as might enable them to dispense with a tax of this character, the objections to- which he should be the last man to undervalue.—(Hear e hear.) But, my Lords, the question was, whether any alteration of the tax itself, whether by any new arrangement of the system under which it was levied, it would be possible for us to dispense with either the whole or any portion of it. Now, I think a single word will satisfy your Lordships that, even if it had been desired wholly to dispense with this tax, which was levied originally for a temporary purpose, and which I still hope may be looked upon as temporary, but ;is merely continued from year to year to meet the pressing necessity of the case—l think your Lordships will agree with me, that unless we feel ourselves in a position for making some general or final arrangement in respect to the whole system of taxation, it would be inexpedient to continue the whole or any portion of the tax, at least for the present.—(Hear, hear.) But practically speak ing we had no alternative placed before us; for though there is a surplus of income over the expenditure of last year —yet as an important alteration in the taxation of the country had taken place, the effect of which did not come into full operation until the present year—it was difficult to say what the result of such alteration would be upon the revenue of the country. If the income tax had been alto gether taken off in the course of this year, we may reason ably calculate that at the close of the financial year, instead of this surplus, there would be a deficiency of income to the amount of 2,500,0001. And by the loss of the remaining half of the income tax that would fall upon the following year, the result of our not renewing it wouldbe this—that the year of 1853 we would find ourselves in a deficiency to the amount Of about 5,000,000/.—( Hear.) The statement which my Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche quer submitted to the House of Commons a few evenings ago went to show that the result of obtaining the whole tax, supposing that no alteration had been made in the receipts, wouldbe, on the best calculations, to give a surplus of 450,0001. upon the revenue of this year. This is a surplus which I think is not more than is absolutely necessary to meet the probable exigencies of the State, and the call that , may be made on us for increased expenditure. Nor is it more than is necessary for us to keep as a balance in hand for the maintenance of public business.—(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, feeling ourselves bound by the stipulation which we have entered into —not to introduce, in the present session, any material alteration into our financial or fiscal regulations—and I will also fairly admit, trot having the opportunity of considering or of proposing to Parliament any matured plan for the arrangement of our fiscal affairs, though we should even consider such to be ultimately expe dieUt—her Majesty's Government feel that they have no al ternative, while desirous to retain a surplus revenue, and h av ing a due regard to the maintenance of public faith and public security—they, I say, feel that they have no alternative than to make that proposition which I now sub mit to your Lordships, namely, to continue without alteration or amendment the existing property tax for another year, in order • to afford us in the interval the fullest opportunity of considering -whether it will be prac ticable to make any alteration in the financial system of the country, and to dispense with the whole or any portion of this tax.— (Hear, hear.) At the same time I should be de ceiving your Lordships •-I should not, I think, be acting a frank or honest part if I were to hold out any very sanguine expectations that this would be the last occasion upon which I should deem it necessary to submit to this House a propo sition for the renewal of the tax. While 1 say this, my Lords, I cannot but admit the strength of the arguments that are urged for the removal or modification of the tax, because I think, not only that it is one which ought not to be resorted to except for the purposes of war, and should not be looked upon as part of the ordinary resources of the country, but also because, from the best considerations that I have been able to give it, and from the considerations given to it , by successive Committees of the other House of Parliament, I believe the difficulties are almost insuperable which stand in the way of diminishing its injustice and inequality.— (Hear.) With that impression, I should be glad if the present state of the revenue, or looking forward for a year or two, I should, I say, be happy if the revenue were in such a stateas would enable me to hold out expectations of the reduction or the abolition of this tax. But I think the course which the Government is taking, of proposing to continue it for the pre sent year, is that which affords to Parliament the fairest and best opportunity of considering the practicability in a future session of Parliament of its entire abolition or reduction ; and I, for one, am willing to rest the proposition for the con tinuance of the tax for another year simply upon the ques tion of necessity, for the purpose of maintaining the public credit.—(Hear, hear.) If it can be shown in any future session that the credit of the country can be maintained, and that our finances can be upheld with due consideration ler the expenditure of the country, I shall be the first to rejoice the ethe Governmentaboli on of o fthe which tax I . And aina if it e should mheer vteonf fall or t ot the submithe t e o l o t redac tion of Par liament a proposition for the repeals or of a tax which in its operation I believe to be not only unpopular, but justly so, no one will be more circumstances rejoicede a t having then whiouht y we s d t a i s o c d h — a r w g t . h U then d u e n r d t e h r standing that we have a prospect at no distant period that the policy of this tax will be duly considered I as well as our commercial and financial policy generally, trust that your Lordships will not only give your consent to the second reading, but in the position in which we are now placed, you will be also of opinion that ,the continuance of this tax for a single year is the only court(' it is possible for her Majesty's Government under the circumstances to take. I have, therefore, to move your Lordshi p s that the Property Tax Continuance Bill be read a second time. The Duke of bTE WCASTLE was eat-mei), sorry to tres passcame to a final decision upon the question. t o upon their Lordships for a short time before was the more more anxious to do so because it was not his intention they y e op measure posethe hissecon cordial assent. do the Nevertheless,contrary, he hefelt would,give the it desirable, in the present state of the country. that there should be a discussion upon the financial affairs of the country. He would remind their Lordships of the circum stances under which this tax originated, and was continued by successive Governments. The Noble Earl would forgive him for referring to a statement which he made last year in respect to this subject. The Noble Earl's statement on the present occasion as to this fax being originally pro posed as a temporary measure, was the truth, but it was not the whole truth. The tax was originally proposed, not only for the purpose of meeting a temporary deficiency, but also of enabling the Government to deal with the other revenues of the State in such a manner as would enable them to dispense with it as a permanent tax. In 1840, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer of that day, being in a deficiency, recommended, as an experiment, that 10 per cent. should be added to the direct taxes of the country, and 5 per cent. to the indirect taxes. _What was the result? The 10 per cent. brought in the . whole amount of the tax contemplated; but the 5 per cent. returned something less than 2 per cent. upon the calculations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The fact was thus proved that the taxes upon articles of con sumption had reached their utmost limits. It was therefore necessary, with a view to their reduction, that in the mean while an income-tax should be reimposed. That was the policy of the late Sir Robert Peel in 1842. On the 19th of May, the Noble Earl, in reply to the Noble Marquis the then President of the Council, said he was prepared to vote for the abolition of , the property-tax, as such a system of taxation was calculated to bring ruin on the country. He (the Noble Duke) contended that all the evidence they could obtain went to show that this system of taxation had conduced considerably to the prosperity of the coun try. As one of the strongest proofs of such prosperity, he need only refer to the late speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Within the -last ten years there had been a remission of taxation amounting to about 12,000,0001., not withstanding which the revenue of the country was in as prosperous a state as ever it was before such remission, and the comforts and happiness of the people bad been consi derably increased. Of coffee, in 1841 there were 28,500,0001b5. consumed, while in the last year the quan tity was 32,500,0001b5. Tea, in 1841 was 36,500,0001b5., whereas in 1851 it rose to 54,000,0001b5. The consump tion of sugar in; 1841 was 4,000,000 cwts. ; in 1851 it was 6,500,000. Cocoa, in 1841, was 2,000,000 cwt.; whereas in 1851 it rose - to nearly 3,000,000 cwt. Our exports increased within the time more than 50 per cent., and our imports more than 70 per cent. What, however, Tees the case with America? Why, the last speech of the President of the United States contained a paragraph lamenting the large exports of specie which were gradually leaving the coffers of the country; while, on the contrary, the specie in the coffers of this country had increased tremendously within the last few years. It might be said that the discovery of the gold mines in California bad led to such a result. Why, this was a fact that told altogether against the Noble Lord's argu ments, and rendered a return to protection absolutely impos sible. He had listened to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's admissions as to the result of their legislation in reference to sugar with the greatest pleasure, because it was a triumphanta proof of the success of such legislation. The in cl e v r a e n as t e ag in es: tt g e ain sh ed ipp fr ig. the repeal of the navigation-laws th so i n H in u cr i e l, a: ,ott i i n ct wtheeretraenqueiatltlyraadpep h ar a ent There has not only been a large importance. Some of the beco oew b;t u t p here has been a corresponding number of seamen employed. Besides that to a position of the greatest hief ports of the country, such as a , and me i ! n e t r a ep p o t e t s o o ff the intercourse doo at declamation a b t e i o t w t a e between .eYanoudnAg,m" America, effects of the repeal of the navigation -lE‘aGuwl:soFphad been favourable to the shipping interest.- Vessels are now built cheaper and better; than w. t r h o ey h i a l d been,as Noble point was thewwe aware. Lords who were fond of yachting Ano ther and a most important agricultural interest had bees affected by tli y e r in which the corn-laws. Putting aside the effects upon the laeritiredfs the a f ar mers, what had been the effect - upon the gre a t b u lk of thed population of the country? Let their Lordships go, not merely into the markets of market towns on market days, and converse with those who bought 'and sold there, but go amo ng the people ; let t h em follow the me mbers of the other[ouse in those domiciliary visits which they would soon h a ve to pav (A laugh) — and he, was persuaded they • ~„„s , d the altered position of the inhabitant.. He dill )1' llut merely speak of the great h ives of our popula tion, Glasgow an d 13irmingliam, Liverpool and Manchester, but of couninhabitants-archf 6,000 or 10,000 inhabitantaauch as LON DON, VENINU, Al A Y 45 He had received a number of letters from various parts of the country corroborating those facts. The first was from Bungay, from a Mr. Scott, a large agriculturist, who stated that the change back to protection could not be made with out creating something like a rebellion in the manufactur ing districts. In a letter from the Rev. George Sand rector of Trixham, Suffolk, he stated that the tenant-farmer had suffered great loss from a local blight; but he ha n d i known the labours of the board of guardians, of was chairman, lighter, and had never known thet' which hiie work house so comparatively free from able-bodied pauper T poor man had had more in his mouth for the last thrice.ll3eyeahrse than he had ever had before. Another letter from tleman who managed his estates in Norfolk, an d who was a - Protectionist in'opinions, stated that his observation, which was of no limited time and ever no small extent of country, led him to believe that there never was more activity ormore disposition to improve among the agricultural body. Every man who had sufficient capital to stand the existing depression was doing everything in his power to improve his condition, and that accounted for all the labourers being employed He hai another letter from Mr. Blyth, one of the first agriculturists of the county of Norfolk, in a district where all the people depended directly or indi rectly upon agriculture. The condition of the farmers there was improved ; there were few hands out of employ ment, few applications for relief, and frequent inquiries for labourers. Immense exertions were being made to increase the produce-of the land by keeping more stock, feeding more cattle, and adopting a more cleanly system of tillage. An other letter, from a gentleman whose name he was not at liberty to mention, said the industry, skill, and capital of the agricultural classes was materially improved since he had become connected with West Norfolk, ten years ago. The farmer bought more manure, cultivated higher, and the agricultural mind appeare Ito be more active. These were a few of the opinions of some of the most intelligent farmers of the country. Under these circumstances he implored the Noble Earl to declare whether what the world was beginning to think probable was the fact, that conviction was stout to dawn upon the Government and produce a great change in their policy. After a few words in explanation from Lord BERNERS, Earl GRANVILL F., said if any Noble Lord on the oppo site side was about to rise, he would at once retire.—(Hear, and laugh.) He hoped some Noble Lord connected" with the Government would give some explanation to the House— let them either confute the facts and statements of the Noble Duke (Newcastle), or at once frankly and generously admit they had been in error in having for so long a time opposed the commercial system which had been recently adopted in this country. Let not the fact go to the country that they were unwilling to admit what had been stated, and unable to deny it. He thought such a coarse would be one of which the House and the country would have some right to complain. The Noble Earl, in the short speech in which he had introduced a most important mea sure to their Lordships, stated the course the Government meant to take—viz., that during the present session they would only propose and pass such measures as were actually necessary, and that then they would make an appeal to the country to decide upon the principles and policy they should pursue with reference to certain great questions. At the time it appeared to him, although he had no right to ask the Noble Earl to define the precise measures that would be brought forward after the general election, that they had a right to expect that the Noble Earl should have stated the general principles, tendency, and colour of the policy upon which the country would be called upon to decide. But the fact was, that so far from giving any hint as.to the general principles or policy proposed to be pursued, appeals were made to the con stituencies sometimes by members of the Government, some times by Hon. Gentlemen who were the ordinaty supporters of the Government, and also by speeches of different ten dencies one from the other, so that the electors were much more in the dark as to the probable policy of the Govern. ment than on the very day when they assumed the reins of power.— (Hear, hear.) It was most desirable that the coun try should know whether it was intended to relieve the landed interest by an import duty on foreign corn or by some other indirect means, or whether it was intended to carry out the commercial system introduced by the late Sir Robert Peel. Judging from the speech of the Noble Earl at the beginning of the year, he would infer that the Noble Earl believed the present system was fraught with mischief, and that he was still of opinion that a recurrence to a duty on corn, for purposes of revenue and protection, was a mat ter of necessity -- The Earl of DERBY—The Noble Earl is quite wrong in supposing that I said a duty on foreign corn was a matter vt necessity. I stated, that for the purpose at once of re lieving the suffering agricultural interest, and also for the purpose of improving the revenue, and thereby enabling us to take off other taxes without injury to the consumer, I thought it might be desirable to impose a moderate fixed duty on foreign corn. I distinctly stated that that was my own opinion. I did not say that it was a matter of necessity, but I stated that, whether the relief should be given by the imposition of a duty upon foreign corn was a matter which rested upon the judgment of the constituencies, but that I thought that was a desirable mode of affording relief to the agricultural classes. I hold to that opinion still ; but I state again, that that is a question which must be left to the con stituencies of the country ; and, moreover, if it give any sa tisfaction to the Noble Earl, and to the Noble Lords oppo site, my opinion is, from what I have since heard and learned, there certainly will not be in favour of the re-imposition of a duty on foreign corn that extensive majority, without which as I stated to your Lordships at the beginning of the session„ it would not be desirable to &opose it.—(Laud cheers from the Opposition benches.) Earl GRANVILLE was glad that the mistake in his mind as to the Noble Earl's expressions had produced a de claration which would be hailed with the greatest satisfac tion by the country, that there was no likelihood of re-im posing a duty upon corn. He was glad to find that this great question of raising the price of food by the production of an artificial scarcity was at last and for ever given up. There was one other pledge given by the Noble Earl with regard to the navigation-laws. The Noble Earl said that he had no intention of re-enacting the navigation-laws. The present system had, he believed, been found in practice to work most beneficially, and it had already been considerably promoted by other countries. No less than 500 British vessels had within the last year entered the ports of the United States, which, previously to the repeal of the navigation-laws, could not be admitted, and of these no less than about 400 had been cleared out. He really thought, after the declaration of the Noble Earl, so suddenly and unexpectedly made to them, which showed that he had come to the only conclusion which Noble Lords on that aide of the House believed the Government could come, that it was unnecessary to trespass further upon the attention of their Lordships. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE complained that upon the second reading of one of the most important Bills ever laid before that House, their Lordships had not been sum moned. 'lhe Earl of DERBY should say that he had not come down to the House that evening prepared to go into a de bate on the seecnd reading of the Bill. He thought to have it read a second time pro forma, and to have taken the debate in Committee. Had he any idea that a debate would have been raised on the question, he should have come prepared to meet it ; but their Lordships might perceive by the benches on the Ministerial side of the House, that none of the sup porters of her Majesty's Government were present, which would not be the case were there any expectation that the debate would now be gone into. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that if the Noble Earl opposite (Earl Derby) had intimated to the House at an early period that it was his intention to take the second reading pro forma, there would be no objection whatever.— (Hear, hear.) When the Noble Earl intimated to him (the Duke of Newcastle) his intention of taking the second read ing pro forma, he instantly acquiesced, but at the same time assured the Noble Earl that other Noble Lords would be more or less taken by surprise at the adoption of such a course, understanding that a debate was to ensue On the second reading. He should say if the Noble Earl the First Minister of the Crown were taken by surprise in the matter, it was by his own officials in the other House who failed to I give him proper intimation.—(Hear.) The Earl of DERBY said, that, though a matter of con venience, it would not be a matter of absolute necessity that the Bill should pass before the Whitsuntide holidays. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed that the Bill was accepted by the country only on the grounds of its being a temporary measure. He called on the Noble Earl the First Minister of the Crown to declare at once—as to such declaration he should come next year—that he did not intend to re-impose a burden on any class of the community for the benefit of another. (Hear, hear.) Let the Noble Earl declare that he would give up protection to agriculture as it had been called, as, by doing so now, it would be more convenient to the country, and advantageous to the Govern ment.—(Hear, hear. ) The Earl of DERBY made an observation across the table which did not reach the gallery. Earl GREY had heard with great surprise the observa tions of the Noble Earl opposite (Earl of Derby) in the course of the incidental conversation which took place that evening. The income-tax had been for several years the keystone of their fiscal position; and no Minister of the Crown, in mov ing its continuance or re-imposition, ever failed to explain the motives and reasons that demanded its re-enactment.— (Hear, hear.) Last year, when his Noble Friend (the Mar quis of Lansdowne) moved the second reading of a similar Bill, he thought it right respectfully to state his views to the House on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) It was at great in convenience that he (Earl Grey) attended there that even ing, as was also the case with many other Noble Peers at his side of the House, who came fully prepared to hear the sub ject entered into. If the Noble Earl opposite had intimated previously his intention of taking the second reading pro forma, no Noble Lord, he was sure, would have objected. But, after coming down to the House at much inconve nience, and then to be told that the Noble Earl had arranged to take the discussion on a later stage, was not, he should say, treating the House with proper or becoming respect. — (Hear, hear.) It was right that the House should consider this matter, as it wes one of deep and vital importance to the country. If Noble Lords opposite were afraid to avow or maintain their former opinions, were Noble Lords on the Opposition side of the House to permit the matter to be slurred over?—(hear, hear.) It was therefore with great pleasure he had heard the speech of the Noble Duke who preceded him (Earl Grey) that evening. He would not repeat the statements of that Noble Duke (the Duke of Newcastle), but he should observe that on the Minis terial side of the House no contradiction had been given to the facts stated by his Noble Friend. There had be n e grea t reductions of taxatio n without corresponding d a nd a imi nutions in the revenue. Trade had been prospero, spirit of enterprise and activity now distinguished every b ra nch of our industry , not even excluding agricultear to which so much r eference had been made. — ordi (H ng to , hear.) Pauperism h ad been diminished; and, cc th e statement of the Chance l lo r of the Exchequer, the prosperity of the cc un t r y had never been higher than at present.—(Hear, hear.) Not one of those fatal consequences predicted by Noble Lords opposite as the result of free trade had come to realization. ThereatS one subject which, from the office be (Earl Grey) ly bad the honour to hold, he felt inested Governments as regarded which, he was informed, the had made up their minds to effect an alteration in the course of the ensuing year— namely, the article of sugar. Now, as that was the case, and considering the very deep interest which a few detail he took in s. the question, he hoped to be p ermitted to go into (Hear, hear.) The Noble Duke who commenced the dis cussion had pointed out the great increase which had taken place in the consumption of sugar. He found that in the last year preceding the alteration in the duties—Ari 1846 —the consumption of sugar was 5,714,000 cwt. ;whilst, for the year ending April, 1852, the consumption reacbcd 7,500,000 cwt. In the year ending July, 1814, the whole quantity of sugar admittedar wa ending i s 4.145,00 Jan cwt.; whilst for r the half of the present e, o nuary last, y quantity amounted to 4,033,000 cwt. So that we consumed at present within 100,000 cwt. in half a year of what we for merly can-umed in a whole year—(Hear, hear). That was a striking fact, but very easily accounted for.— (Hear, hear.) Before the introduction of foreign sugar, and when there was a monopoly in the market, be found by returns that, looking at the prices in bond, foreign sugar was 345. 9d. per cwt.,g whilst British sugar was only 21s. 3d. per cwt., making " difference of 13s. 6d. par cwt. to the consumer. In that same year the consumption of sugar reached 4,145 0:)0 cwt., and thereforei in addition to a large revenue, I the British consumer was taxed to an extent of noles I than 2,790,00/. But the rebult of the reduction of the TUESDAY Salisbury or Grantham —or he might mention a place from which a warning voice had that night been heard-- Windsor. Hon. Members of the other House would assu redly discover that there had been a great alteration since their last visit in 1847.—(A laugh.) They would find a marked improvement, which could only be attributed to a decrease in the price of provisions. They would be told all this by the women.—(Laughter.) Noble Lords might laugh, but there was no surer indication of the do mestic condition of the people than the account which the women would give on election occasions. And he declared that if two per cent. of the female portion of the population asked for a restoration of the corn-laws, or any equivalent, to deprive them of what they called the " cheap loaf," he (the Duke of Newcastle) would surrender the question. He believed that, ou the contrary, tales would be heard from the wives and daughters of working men more pathetic in their humble prose than the forcible poetry of " Corn. law Rhymes," tales as powerfully proving the folly of restoring the corn .laws as those rhymes showed the folly of re taining them. Why, the importation of corn amounted to nearly 10,000,000 quarters! Did not. the very importation of that quantity prove that it was wanted? Was it not clear that the provision for the labouring classes bad been made a certainty, which before had been matter of specula tion ? And was there any oee prepare(' to take a course which would deprive them of this supply? Even the agri cultural villages showed the improvement. The poor-law returns showed a diminution over the whole area of England of 7e per cent. in the number of paupers relieved. Nor had the improvement been merely in the manufacturing dis tricts ; the returns proved the reverse. The few towns in which there had been an increase ineluded some mann lecturing towns, such as Leicester and Nottingham ; while among the districts in which there had been the largest decrease in pauperism were Berks, Bucks, Devonshire, Westmoreland, and the East Riding. The returns proved that in the villages and smaller towns there had been a decrease of pauperism consequent upon the increased means of subsistence and the augmented means of employment. The case was the same with Scotland. To support his statements as to England' the Noble Duke referred here to a return of a poor-law inspector for one of the districts, in which it was stated that, out of a population of three millions, only three-seventieths were in the receipt of relief. The period of the return was for three years after 1848. The corn-law had been repealed in 1846, but did not come into operation till 1849. So the returns proved that the diminution of pauperism had been con current with the abolition of protection. In 1843 there were on the poor-law books in the district referred to 79,000. In 1849 this number had been reduced, in round numbers, to 74,000; in 1850, to 69,000; and, in 1851, to 65,000. The diminution of crime tended to establish similar conclusions. At the last quarter sessions there had been hardly any of those offences which of old were used to .occupy several days. He contended, then, that these facts showed that they were the true friends of industry w h o h a d re li ev ed it loom or the plough. It was indeed sa id that t h ere h a d . been great distress in the country. H e d i d not deny it. of its fetters, and sent the people t o wor k e i t h er a t th e He had never denied it. He believed it was to be looked for as the natural result of the transition from one state to another. He had never anticipated that such a a change could be effected without some severe dis tress. He knew, however, that in some districts rents were too high, and had to be reduced, and he believed this to be rather a landlord's question. He would not prejudge what course the Noble Earl might pursue next session on this subject. No one could raise a voice against the present Bill, and it was very probable that a similar measure would be brought forward again. He (the Duke of Newcastle) wished such broad hints had not been thrown out on the part of the Government as to direct taxation being im practicable without exemptions, and with exemptions practically confiscation.—( Hear, hear.) And if the tax were to be abandoned before the revenue had equalised itself with expenditure, and the increase of the amount derived from other taxes now existing, he hoped the Noble Earl would not resort to duties on articles of trade, and, above all, the food of the people. He entreated the Noble Earl to abandon the idea as chimerical. He (the Duke of Newcastle) any withdrawal of the would not dentin menace to their Lordship s , especially in times so quiet and contented. But he was much m i staken if the People of this country, however attach e d t o their Sovereign had constitution, obtained wo uldby de. H e was persuaded they would not allow any measure by whi c h , directly or indirectly, any increase upon the burdens o f t h e consuming benefits and their they classes should take place. He hoped the Parliament about to be returned would resist any reversal or revision of the free-trade policy. Ile did not, of course, mean to exclude wise revision of details, but such a revision as was talked of by "free-trade Derbyites" at elections, who spoke against reversal while reserving to themselves the power of re vision. It was doubtless intended, by these slippery phrases to do that indirectly which could not be done directly ; but he believed the resistance of the people would be equally great, and their discontent greater. The Noble Earl had spoken of the Conservative character of his Govern ment, and of his being a barrier against the encroachments of democracy. If there were ever such " encroachments" he (the Duke of Newcastle) would be a humble follower of the Noble Earl; but he saw no symptoms of such en croachments, and only observed that occasion an agita tor's speech fell flatly u p on the people's ears.--Gear, hear.) But the Noble Earl had no right to assume to himself this position until he had " made a clear breast of it" upon this most important question. A declaration from the Noble Earl before Parliament was dissolved that he had finally abandoned any intention of restoring the corn -laws would place the Noble Earl in a proud position before the people. But a Conservative policy at this day was a policy of rational, steady, well-considered, and, because steady and well-con sidered, safe and salutary progress.'—(Cheers from the Oppo sition.) It was impossible to stand still without danger, and any attempts at that re-actionary policy, of which there had been recently some symptoms, would accelerate the onward progress of that de mocracy , th e a d v ance of which the Noble Earl anticipated and deprecated. He repeated, the proper policy of a Conservative Government was progress; to stand still was peril; and re -action was revolution.—(Cheers from the Opposition. ) Lord BERNERS, after stating that in some counties the cry was " Free-trade -and starvation," referred to certain re turns showing that the expenditure for the relief of the poor in 1850, which was 5,305,0004 was 440,0001. more than for the year 1836—(Hear, hear)—and, though it was less than for the year 1849, it was only one farthing per head on the population less than the average of the seven years when there was the highest price of wheat. It might, perhaps, be supposed that when there was the lowest average price of wheat we should have the lowest amount of expenditure for the poor, but such was not the feet. The minimum price of wheat in 1837 was 525. If then, he took the last sixteen years, and took out the eight years when wheat was above 525., and eight when it was below that price, he found a very large proportion in favour of high prices. The expenditure for the last five years was greater by 2,000,000/. than for the five preceding years; and the expenditure for 1850, h --o h less than for w greater than for any other year Since 1836. Fromanother return he also found that from 1846 there was a general decrease of the sums deposited, For 1849 there were 20,000 depositors less than for 1 846, and 3,206,0001. less deposited in amount, though last year, certainly, there was a little increase. Lord WODEHOUSE said his °beery a tioli r did not lead him to the same conclusion as th e Noble Eal. The years 1848 and 1849 had been years of ' g to great deression, owin causes quite separate from the p question of free trade. He hardly believed that—at least in t h e which he was best acquainted, eh tof the country with par oprn counties—it was at all disputed . that the conditio '1 thee) bu in classes had vastly improved. It would seem the rise r wages that .1 which was observable had createdthe some apprehension in mind of the farmer that the c . audition of the labourer would improve more rapidly than histhe argument of Noble Lords opposite was g oo d f Own. .If - or anything the bees 1 in the condition of the ag e k eitue continually-increasing depreciation. 'al body would ' If the farmer was living upon his capital, he must ev re and more towards the verge of rui n wh . ery year go mo leh had b een so frequently predicted. He appealed to Noble Lords who were ords ac quainted with the agricultural districts whether, instead of their being in a continual state of d e a decidedly improved and healthful t reciation, there was not of land. He believed that the most 8 one among the occupiers excited in the breasts of the fitrauguine hopes were being rners, and that they were being aroused to a greater degree of e and industry nergy than ever. He could not help neti . cm the very prepos terous argument that had been usea_ fi g . 'n the other House of Parliament, but out o o t in that, or i withstanding the many hunred tho f doors—that, not and flour annually imported unto t hi s h . and quarters of corn country not a single l oa f more of bread had been eaten by the a le. Now, to show that there was no fear of land ~e f. _ P le le peo t of cultivation, he might state that by the last rep ort g ls ou E I re Com t e nc osu • • ars no less than 644 applications mission had been had been made to them; of these 161 disposed of before the last an nue( report, and of the remaining 483, ee . en closures of land, and the quantity corner . db 4 for were applica tions and authorised to be enclosed, since'ised in the t was 46,798 acres. Although the last general re treated or the question was there as one of reason and delib - of ration, it was with the great body of .the people ?a n r e l ha t d the de epest interest. Last year when the N . not the his shoulders responsibility of a Government upon , "d had not succeeded in Administration, he .1, forming anhad 'given them a ver ample and deliberate and open program me who but of what h ' not of be and del t a to do, e 'wouldehave done. He stated that he should have proposed a gradual diminution and extension of the income-tax, eollleled with moderate duty upon corn. That was a policy not . a dimly shadowed forth, but clearly and distinctly enumeiated. He wishes the Noble Lord would adopt the sa me c oarse now. It was an extraordinary state of things when they had the Finance Minister of the Crown making an elabora—te statement of principres establishing the free-trade Policy of the late Government, and then they had . the Noble Earl at the head of the Administration —not in that ii -0125e, but at the Mansion-house making an elaborate Mystification of the facts used by his Chancellor of the e, - ezehequer. On the eve of an approaching election, i was Most essential that they should have some explanation of the policy of the Government—whether it was deemed advisabl e to reverse late Sir Robert 'Peel,' or the policy of . the adopt it in its There were Other Matters, such b duties the tine er, and as the navigation-laws,the tea duties, lie very desirable upon which 'it would and he believed otherl" opinion should be pronounced; see w hether this country would con tinue, to pursue the policy i t had commend' He could assure the Noble Earl that by the silence he , , had adopted he cause or tne great Dart , he was doing injury to t h he might differwhich from that destroyed. ty, he did not wish to see it par , The Earl of ALBEMARLE trusted the fNoble Earl would give the House some little inkling hiso future policy. In chary of his opinions, for at the other places he was not so Mansion-house he had indulged in what h• la $ oble Friend called an elaborate mystification • , and he hop e d 4t be elicited would not be said that his policy could only th , h3' turtle and champagne. The Noble Earl had ere !peen of a large class unconnected with man ufactures. Would the Noble Earl inform them whom be in meant? There we re t h ree deno minations of persons . agricultural the class — th e l a b ourer, the tenant-farmer, and the l a ndlord. He would assume at once that it was not the landlord, and he inferred that it the He feared House w as i nept ,. could not be the labourer. "N o ," "Go on.") Well, then, would the tient.—(Cries of period when the Noble bad inform him of anylabouring l fre trade—enjoyed man—thanks to the blessings o f tea, sugar, andacoafal supply of breed, butter, bacon,eggs, the poor man's luxury, tobacco; (Cheers.) Then there was attention and he would call theirLordships' to th e i ncreased consumption as an evidence o the improved consumption of that condition of the labouring classes. The c a l cu l at i ons of the consumption ' tobacco • per head i n t h e five last decennial periods of was omitting fracti ons of ounces, in 18ad ; 1831, 12 oz. ; 1841, 13 oz.; 21, 11 oz. per " el that more skill and capital and 1851, 16 oz. He believ had been expended in agricultural pursuits by the tenant farmers since the passing of the free - trade measures tha n His Noble ,Friend had spok en o f at any pre v io u s p er i o d. ` manures —he found the consumption of bones and foreign _ imported , were, in that in the last five years the quah-lu es . 1848, 103,000 Coos ;in 1849, in 185 0, 1 112,000 tons.,. 44,000 tons ; and in 18i1, 274,000- tons, - showing an increase of 137 leer rent, He admitted that there was distress among the tenant -farmers here and -there, but the present was a transition state, and .the improvements going on in all quarters teas tee ei . idenee that they were r ecoverin g from it. 1852 duty was, that whi • t the consumer had benefited enormously, the reve ue, instead of suffering, had become greatly the gainer, so that the Chancellor of the Exchequer might well declare that, as regarded sugar, the increase in consumption was a marvellous example of re• clueing duties.—( Hear, hear.) The benefits of the measure, as far as this country was concerned, could not be contested after that declaration. When foreign sugar was first ad mitted, they were told that the effect would be to destroy the cultivation of sugar in the colonies, as also to give a fresh impulse to slavery. From that statement he (Earl Grey) at the time entirely dissented, and stated as his opinion that the ultimate effect would be to promote the abolition of the slave trade, and to increase, instead of diminish, the cultivation of colonial sugar.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the slave trade, his Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston). when leaving office was able to con gratulate himself and the country on the practical extinc tion of the slave •trade ; and he believed there had no change since then occurred. He was aware that Cuba was now planted by free labour; and a contract had been entered into for the supply of 80,000 free labourers to the Cuban colony. The next point they were cautioned on was the destruction of the cultivation of sugar, a branch of industry in which any falling-off was certain to make itself manifest its a very brief period. Now, as he had been interested in this matter, he bad compared the averages of the three last years of .protection from 1839 to 18-11—in the East Indies, West Indies, and Mauritius, with the three years following the complete emancipation of the trade, and the result was a vast increase in the quantity produced in the three years following complete emancipation —( Hear.) With respect to British Guiana, the Governor of that colony, in a dispatch dated th e 12th of November last, said that the situation of the proprietors was better than it had been for myears aa o p n a s f t o ; r and apprehending tb at , ift a hey rev a e c m te e d . p T ru h d e en a t l l a y r , m th g e e re . some as e n o e nerally felt with regard to the fall in sugar was not with re gard to slave grown sugar, but beetroot sugar; but he (Earl Grey) believed that alarm to be perfectly unfounded for even with heavy protective d u ti es he did not think beet root could compete with the sugar-cane. On this point, however, the slave-growers were as much alarmed as the free-growers. He was aware that extreme distress existed in Jamaica, and that at this moment the pressure was most severe; but Jamaica, considering the value of th e so i l and climate, and the character of the inhabitants, ought not to be in a disadvantageous position as compared with the other colonies. That suffering, however, he believed to have arisen partly from the ravages of the cholera, but more' from the planters having listened too much to the advice of Noble Lords opposite, and to a disposition to neglect other means of improving their condition in favour of a visionary attempt to win back protection. The Legislature of Jamaica, neglecting remedial measures, had fixed their eyes upon protection, and nothing else. The result was that whilst other colonies were progressing, whilst the production of Mauritius was makiug a gigantic advance, Jamaica showed little signs of improvement. Turning to our own country, he believed that the improvement observable in it was the result of our having liberated its industry from the restric .. tions to which a vicious policy had formerly subjected it. And yet that great commercial and financial revolution begun in 1846, and almost completed in 1819 by the repeal of the navigation-laws, took place under circumstances the most disadvantageous. In the first place, the corn-laws were hardly repealed when the potato disease, which had been partially felt during the preceding autumn, appeared with tenfold violence. Concurrently with this there was a defi• ciency of corn throughout the greater part of Europe, and the consequence was that in Ireland, during the whole of 1846 and part of 1847, there was an absolute famine, while in this country the price of food was high, and distress followed. In 1847 every man felt apprehensive as to whe ther the supply of corn would be sufficient to feed the peo ple. At one period, about this time, corn sold in Mark-lane for 100 s. a quarter. A NOBLE PERIL-1255. a quarter. Earl GREY believed at upwards of 100 s a quarter. Added to this, 8,000,0001. were borrowed for the relief of Ireland,, and the country had to suffer the effects of the re-action of the railway mania and of overtrading in 1845 and 1846, and during the latter part of 1847 it probably went through more disasters than had ever previously befallen it. To complete this combination of adverse circumstances, there was the re volution which occurred in France in the spring of 1548, and which spread itself from one end of the continent to the other. But under, and, as he contended, by virtee of the' free-trade policy, the country had successfully passed this tremendous trial. The people submitted to privations with patience and resignation, because they knew they were not artificially produced, and they met with a speedy reward. Industry and commerce revived, and all trace of these fear ful calmities was lost in an inconceivably short space of time. And what was the result in a financial point of view ? Why that the country had made provision by more than 974,0001. for the 10,000,0001. borrowed in 1847 and 1848. Such a result was not only a subject of congratulation by those who maintained the free-trade policy which led to it, but by those who paved the way prior to 1846. For himself, he rejoiced to have taken part in the commercial discussions which had preceded and accompanied the measures of free trade. When the success of these free-trade measures had been so com pletely established, it was natural that the country should feel much anxiety as to whether the powerful party to which the Noble Earl (Derby) belonged intended to tamper with them. The Noble Earl had made an important declaration to-night, but up to this moment the country were as much at a loss to know what the views of her Majesty's Govern ment were as the first day that they took office. The Noble Earl, on entering office, had said he would not attempt the re-imposition of a duty on corn unless he had the powerful concurrence of the country. The Chancellor of the Exche quer, however, had told his constituents on his re-election that the agriculturists were to have relief by a countervailing ' duty on corn, as he called it, or by some other cheap and simple mode of relief, and that the Government were deter mined to afford that relief. Not long after, the Right Hon. Gentleman made a most able speech in the other House of Parliament on introducing the very resolution which was the foundation of the present Bill. In that speech the Right Hon. Gentlemen made a most careful and admirable state ment of the advantages of free trade; but unfortunately the Noble Earl opposite, not long afterwards, made what he called a supplemental speech, and to a festive audience de clared that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made a most excellent speech, but that he had not touched upon the subject of the advantages of a compromise with the landed interest; and the Noble Earl on that occasion went on to insist upon the necessity of some compromise being entered into with the landed interest on account of the advantages which had been afforded to the consumer. In the course of this somewhat unusal proceeding, the Noble Earl informed the assembled citizens that the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was only an imperfect statement of the views of the Government, and that another important part of those views ought not to be lost sight of. Unfortunately this was not all, for after this supplementary speech the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that he had been very much misunderstood—that he had given no opinions in his budget-speech, and that he in tended to act upon all the principl es he had asserte d when in opposition. This was a somewhat startling proposition, produced, perhaps by murmurs in the camp. But this was not all. 'There I:ad appeared varionS addresses from the adherents of the Gove rn ment. Evn gentlemen holding office had stated in their addresses to constituents very contradictory views of the policy supposed to be held. One Right Honourable Gentleman, not in the Cabinet, said that he accepted office only in the full conviction that the Noble Earl would reverse the policy of Sir Robert Peel ; and that Right Hon. Gentleman still remained in office. But, th an k s to th e v igorous application of the screw by hi s (Earl Grey's) Noble Friend (Earl Granville), a statement that it was not the intention of the Government to re-impose a duty on corn had been reluctantly extorted. There was something else, however, in the back ground. What it was the contrivers did not say; bu t he ( E arl Grey) thought he know something of the nature of it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in speaking of this scheme, said it was something in comparison with which the duty on corn would be less costly, less inconvenient, and more simple. If that were so, be (Earl Grey) said, let them go back to the duty on core. But he thought there ought to be an end to this ambiguity and studied concealment. If the Noble Lord and his supporters believed they had been all along wrong, let them say as much (Hear, hear)—if they believed they had been right, let them discuss' the question in a straightforward manner. It was not right that a Go vernment which was to compose ill-will, reconcile town and country, and for ever heal past differences, should, in order to serve some pitiful electioneering purposes, keep their views concealed. As a straightforward declaration was the most manly and best for the interests of the country, se it was the best for the strength and stability of the Adminis tration.—(bear, hear) This was a question on which the Government had no right to shrink from explanation. By explanation the Noble Earl might incur reproach for having • grossly deceived himself or others; or, in the reckles pursut he i o t of party objects, he might have sacrifice d what h e t. knew nd, In might have erred from blindness o r want of ud 5i j d in Di's be the best interests of the country. On the other ha judg either case little confidence wou ld be inspiree To one he tives—want of judgment or want of incur the penalty Id thereby incur went. The Noble Earl must choose !)aehtwoeurn. two Aherne must submit ; and he would penalty he could not escape, and last six vars. From that pena. his views the heavier it hear) an objectionable attempted to disguise is v due to the erroneous course he had pursued for the the longer he would be. Lo r ds, I cannot but thank the hear, and a laugh)—but Noble Earl foofr DEBBY nd — n My in offering the two tempting l al t te ru rn et at l iv iti es a h; My Lords, with due respect to behaspenrmiamtedteclLT on behalf of myself and my Noble Friends, and my colleagues in the other House o f Parliament, that I do net think we shall be driven to accept t havequ question just tion t i h i p r a e relev t t e h it e he N r oebflethEeaeirrl(Cmhuesetratlke the liberty of repeating the opinion that a great part of this discussion, and more especi ally theisgrmealtiegrrpeaarttmousf the ure s . p i e f ec n h ot y a o l u to r g L e o th rd e_ s r h , an to under debate.—(Hear, t h h e e ard q , uestion being whether, considering the financial condition of the country, we shall renew for a single year tax, or leave the country with a deficiency, this year of 2,000,000/., and, probably, aext year of 5,000,000/. (El ? ear hear.) My Lords, I say, in a deb a t e on the ' introduction of such a Bill for such a purpose Ido not think •it is relevant t o enter upon a discussion of ? the whole commercial policy o f the country, the more esp ec ially as the Noble Earl know s, from the circumstances in which h a ve been placed, and th e circumstances under which th have taken office, th a t a f u ll and complete ey of the subject on their art of the is imsible. discussion greater portion of the speeche Noble Earl,.) The refers to a power wholly irrelevant to the I must say, continuance of the income-tax—l mean theuestion of the trade in sugar. And, my Lords, while effects of free Noble Earl, with a candour for which on the one hand the ad mitted that the great revolution in the I thank him, the country did not take place at an earlierommercial policy of and consequently does not refer at all to period than 1846, proposi tions of Sir Robert Peel's policy the earlier from 1842 theto 1846, he same time asked the question wheth er of her Majesty' s G overnment to pursue com mercial policy of Si r R o b er t Peel or abandon the ; question by an elabo ra t e argument and he illustrates that sugar duties. Now, m y Lords, on the subject of the Earl and your L or d s hi ps that the must remind the Noble duties on sugar was n o p ar t o f the abolition of differential no part of his prop os iti ons ; and Polley of Sir Robert Peel , it that when the p ro p os i t i on was is perfectly well knew! Government, Sir Robert Peel with made by her Majesty's late was induced to consect to thechap greatest reluctance measure was wise, equitable, or ge ; not becaeuse that bad to just, but because choose between the adoption of an impolitiche course of proceeding, and the an unjust and t late expulsion of her lalsjes y . Government from office; and l accordingly took the generous Sir Robert Pee . . se course, but I think impolitic heads ling ()I supporting his successors and opponents, although adopting a policy to which ho was himsef opposed. Therefore do not let the Noble Earl and the claim the abolition of country . the differential duties of Sir Robert on sugar as a portion •h Peel's free trad e or commercial policy.— (H ea r, hear.) Wlt regard to the e ff ect of that measure, lam sorry . to say I think the Nobl e E arl is under some misapprehension when he speaks of the almost total cessation of the slave trade, and attributes that cessation to free trade. In the first place, he is wrong in point of fact. I:Tndoubtedly, our cruiser, by a vigorous • operation on the part of our cruisers and active —by the a d opt i on of coercion on the coast of Africa and d Brazil, the slave trade has been very much put dawn ; and late aided by the farmers late year s our e ff or t s hays that'athtehleye,either But the Noble exertions of the Brazilian Governmecnot-ba m cu o b m a en is t ea s r l ' av h e trade oulf --- Earl is in error, wheu, in speaking of o g u r r e s t e o to f saydim diminution.—(Hear, ti o that u.— the (iet that the slave trade is put down, or The fact I i i t s , i a s n and nI e r 1 on the increase; and no two subjects can be more closely I connected than the effects of free trade in sugar in t h e West India colonies, and the increase of the slavetradei Cuba. At this moment, when, as has been admitted b y t h: Noble Earl, Jamaica is in a state of deep depression and distress, the steam machinery of Jamaica is being transfer red in large quantities to Cuba, thus withdrawing it from the cultivation of free-labour sugar to the cultivation of slave labour sugar. I believe there can be no doubt whatever— the Noble Earl has admitted—that although in some of the colonies there has been an increase in the production of sugar, yet that in Jamaica there is a state of deep depression, and distress existing, not arising from a diminution of pro duction, but from the unremunerative prices obtained for the produce. The opinion I entertained on this subject in 1846 I entertain now; and it is, that in the long run it is not pos sible for free-grown sugar, except in some very favoured situations, to compete with the slave sugar of Cuba and Brazil; and although it be quite true that at this moment there is an increasing amount of sugar imported from B• itieh colonies, yet if the Noble Earl will look at the Price Currents, he will see that the increased amount is more than compensated by the fall in price, so that the planter has not the alternative of abandoning the trade, and at the same time he has no hope of carrying it on with advantage. But, my Lords, I say that the question of sugar is wholly apart from the ques tion whether we shall or shall not continue the income-tax for the present year.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl has introduced the question of the sugar duties, not apropos to any measures proposed by her Majesty's Government, or statement made or aneouncement given, but because he understands, or has heard some rumour, that i n anot h er sea sii,n of Parliament her Majesty's Government intend to re trace past steps with regard to sugar. I apprehend that this is not a question upon which the Government are called at - this moment to make a declaration, more especially under the engagement we have entered into—namely, that we are not, in the course of this session, to submit any fiscal or financial measure to the consideration of Parliament. The House will, therefore, agree with me that nothing is more impolitic, im prudent, or improper than to suggest or hold out any expec. tation of fiscal change, at a time when it was impossible to discuss them, or to decide upon them until another Parlia ment. The Noble Earl who has just sat down said that the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the coarse of the present session shows that the subject of free trade is neces sarily connected with the consideration of the income-tax. Now, it was the bounden duty of the Chancellor of the Ex chequer to go into or finances of the country, setting forth not the merits of a ow this or that plan, b u t toh ' what the progress o f th e re venue had bees, before t he House could be expected to agree to any measures ibr the and the expenditur e o f thr co rpose of equalising the revenue consequently impossible for h lntrY— c liear, hear.) It was i questions of duties in the large m to avoid d ea li n g with those especially in respect to suga and art icles of c onsum ption—more of those articles which enter largelyrn, and the importation country. It was impossible for theinto the revenue of the Ex chequer to overlook these facts.—(Hem..) the Noble Lord opposite, ‘, Oh, rec olle c tßut, then, says s that last year you admitted that if you were i n o ffi ce income-tax." I am ready to admit that iwould reduce the :m time, and I say so now, if I had the means doingof so at that (Hear, hear.) But, subsequent to that decla ratio n, no.— Majesty's Government having at their command a ooicalsid her able surplus, thought proper to do away with it th e ler - abolition of other taxes, and thereby rendering the r s edu tion of the income - tax, which I then thought wit; an impolitic tax, and now think is an impolitic tax, alto gether impoesible.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore I do not think that the Noble Lord is justified in pointing to any apparent inconsistency on my part because last year I expressed an opinion favourable to the gradual reduction of the income-. tax during these times of peace. You have, however, de parted from your general financial system, and I submit that you must now submit to this tax for a single year at all events, because you have no surplus upon which you can confidently rely.—(Hear.) I am not going to follow the Noble Lords who have spoken from the other side of the House into a general discussion of the abstract measure of free trade, or what is called our commercial policy. To one portion of our commercial policy I confess 1 was a wile ling party. I willingly assisted to reduce the amount of our differential duties, because I was desirous of placing the home and the foreign producer upon a footing of a real— not a nominal—equality—l was desirous of intro ducing a bona fide competition, so as to give a fresh stimulus to this as well as to other countries. lam not igno rant, nor does it take me at all by surprise, when I am told that so far from diminishing, it had greatly increased, the amount of consumption. Whether the principle upon which this system was founded was introduced by the late Sir R. Peel or any other party—to that principle I am willing to give my utmost support, provided it inflicts no injustice upon any party, nor entails any loss upon the re , venue.—(Hear, hear.) It may, no doubt, be practicable to give the people a greater command of the comforts and luxuries of life. No doubt, if the reduction of duties will do this, and not act unjustly to other classes, it must be a matter of rejoicing to any man that the price of these ar ticles is brought so low as to come within the reach of the masses of the population. I will not deny but that there has been a great boon conferred upon the consumers of this country by the diminished price of sugar, consequent upon the reduction of the duties. No one doubted but that such a measure would giVe a greater addition to the comforts of the people. But the question which we have to consider is, not singly or simply whether a great advantage has been con ferred upon the class of consumers in this country, but whether that advantage is bought by an act of injustice and spoliation to other parties, and by involving in ruin a large class of those who, upon the faith of your own Act of Parlia ment, embarked their all in the cultivation of the article the duties upon which you have so reduced? - (Hear, hear.) When those things are done, it is difficult to 'enema them. But I confess in the face of this great advantage which the people have derived from the importation of slave-grown sugar, I would much rather have seen a smaller advantage derived by the improved cultivation and encouragement given to those who have a natural and rightful claim upon us than an increased advantage by an amount of cheapness gained by what I thought, and still think, was an act of in justice—an act the tendency of which was to stimulate and encourage the production of sugar by means of slavery, and by that of increasing the infamous traffic in slaves.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not deny that it is possible that the consump tion of the comforts and necessaries of life has been increased in consequence of the reduced price of corn ; but that such in crease has been in anything like the proportions stated by the Noble Lord opposite, I say is contrary to the fact; and if I had the figures here before me I could show that they have been grossly exaggerated. Noble Lords opposite have talked of an increase of 10,000,000 quarters of corn in the consump tion of the people of this country. Now that calculation I believe is taken upon an average of years which includes some years of famine, in which of course the imports had been considerably larger. The Duke of ARGYLL was here understood to say that the highest amount of corn consumed within the years quoted were 11,000,000 quarters. The Earl of DERBY—But even supposing that all that b een consumed, you are not to suppose q uantity has f the consuable roduce that that is a gross increase o the p . of this country. In the first place, average d im ofl think, 3 000 000 or portation • before the year 1846 was, , , , 4,000,000 of quarters , a nd if I deducted these from the 10,000.000 alleged to ha ve been consu m ed, will reduce it to 6,000,000 or 7,0 00 , 00 J of quarters. I tosay noted, ou that from these be th • e quan m ity consumed upon t 10,000,000 quarters, assu min g t hist he average in tbe years q y wit 00 an 4,000,0 0 deduct something between 3,000,0 an d before th at f quarters which were imported the y e h ill which the alteration o f the law was m ade. Tat leaves an increase of consumpt ion to the Inmant of something like 6,, , 000 000 not of wheaten flou r, but of co rn of all Noble Lord asks me whether I descriptions. The . believe wheat land had gone out of • • that 800,000 acres of cultivation in the face of the immense enclosures that have taken place. , in the first place, a large portion of those Enclosure Now, towards adding to a i : Acts did nothing whatever the cuitiva tion. They were the enclosure o f lands generally which were held in common. But they are just as much in as they were before those Acts culti vation now were passed. Although no doubt 800,000 acres had not gone out • does the Noble Lord mean to ea that of culti vation, 5 - there has been no diminution in the amount of produce • Ireland to this country ? NS h -Y, there has b eenreceived from like a diminution of 300,000 quarters of something last few years of what was usually wheat within the mean to say that there has been no i ncreasereceived. I do not ' sumption of corn ; but I say that such a fact that there has been when you argue upon ing powers of the people to an addition to the consum quarters, that you grossly anything like 10,000,000 increased consumption xaggerate. But how is this lightly over this part o pu r c hased? The Noble Lord passed very well for him, or f f the subiect. It may be that we can afford to receiveor the large proprietors, ti:' Fla Y the power of less in order to afford the masses incomes. But there consumi ng more —we shall still have sufficient lords and e is a large class who are both /and also su ff er. N farmers—s o that when one Buffet-5, the other !rill They are small N ow what is the condition of that class whom this loss prop rietors, cultivating their own lan d , n upon umber of this class have falls a double weight. A large recent legis lation, that they hav e en pressed upon.. by ° tir ed been utterly ex as cultiva tors of the soil in th is hav e been driven to seek country, and a refuge in other I confess I sae with the greatest satis fa c tion,uries.— 14 and ( I believe it to be true, that the labouring classes aree • toying a considerable amount of prosperity, and I should be the last man that would desire port of a ny ion of that by any measure to deprive them prosperity. B u t un d ou bt e dly the prosperity a the labouring prosperity of the classes is wholly dependant upon the em ployer. If, then,youdiminish the means of the employed, the labourer, sooner or later, will fai l in obtaining employment, and on him ultimatel the injed ury will falls The wages, n o d ou b t, y have not been diminish i n proportion to the r e d uce d that is mere ly to say that the b ur d en i s price of corn ; butlandlords and the tenants and . at present sustained by the e the shoulders of the labOnrer. has not yet been cast 111-- a nd This I believe to be the fact; a . the consequence is that the labourers are eujsYlr a considerable degree of pros t is also true, as stated, that in the perity.—(Hear, hear . ) or three years both course of the last two _. tenant and land lord have made extraor dinary exertions to improve the cultivation of the land. The stimulus of necessity has ope- And to a certain extent most wholesomely rated upon them , and advantageenslY, nevertheless with great severity, oPP!,_6I - and hareishit• on, And I have very great doubts wnewer --sas alt ough great expenditure is undertaken by in many ....---, the great portion of the outlay is not a loss to those classes, • tor and the tenant, although at the present time the proprie not deny but be advantageous to the labourer. Ido it may • the course of the last few years there has that in exportation. A great increase of our articles of . been I am not going to enter into the question Now, in various places in reference to the discovery of gold b u t of this I have no doubt , if it had n ot been for these grea t and increasing discoveries, and th e large influx of gold into this country with rapidly increasing speed, you Would have seen a different state of commercial affairs here than what you see now.—(Hear, hear.) And although it w ay be quite true that the amount of our imports has largely increased,' as well as our exports, although it may be true that the amount of our productions has greatly increased, I very much doubt, if we could look into the balance-sheets of our commercial men, we should see that increased amount of traffic of these exports and import s a ,. companied with a corresponding profit. On the contrarY with the largest amount of trade almost ever known, it ha s been less profitable to them during the last few years 5 than in any period within their experience, except in years o f As a proof of the prosperity of the country, th e N panic. Noble Lords are fond of quoting statistical returns of the reduced amount of pauperism. The Noble Lord opposite commenced with the year 1848, and congratulated the country on the im mense reduction of pauperism si • nce that period. Well, but is it fair to take the year 1848 as starting post for these calculations? In taking up this a t we s part of the argumen t have had a vivid declama • Noble en Ear 1 declamation from the who has just sat down.of a most But that was a year exceptionable character, in which all classes almost were involved in absolute ruin. That was a year of famine, BD that the amount of pauperism then cannot be fairly said to be a data upon which you have a right to calculate foe