The Sun. — London, England, 1816-10-19 00:00:00

, POLICE OF 'I. Ile 111E111.0POLIS. LSir DkNIFL NVILL!ANS, Kitt. again examined.] Did you attend the licen , .ing Of public...houses years 181 , 1 and )815 I—l did. Tittle were' complaints kid against particular Siblic.iiouSes by the churchwardens and some of the priucipal iiilsahitants in that district, in both tliO,e years, were there not ?—I think there velye. PArtieularly nainst the public-houses known tic the lid Mei of the Duke cif York, the White 11, 0 1, mid the raviottre Arms think there ,• re . Did you know in the year 1814. flint the offi eer6 of the parish had complained of thwe public -1,0,, sc s t o the magistrate of the Shadwell Police ()lice ?-1 did tint know it. :Was there not a memorial presented to you A n ti tilt rest of the magistrates, stating the scandalous, 'isolecent, and licentious conduct which daily and took place in those houses I—There was. That setts in the year 1813 r--1. cannot say What year it was in. In consequence of those complaints, you took au t ay the licenses of some of these houses three._ The nett year a petition was presented by the partied, to have the houses re-opened; was not that the case ?—There was such a petition pre-. sewed, and also a petition from certain inhabi tants, praying that the licenses might be restored. Was there not also a representation on time part of the parish officers, as well as by many of :he respectable inhabitants of that placed:raying that they +night not be restoredl—The pardes praying thrt they might not be restored, and the parties prayint .that they might be restored, were both -calls d in together, told heard in each others pre. se,nce what they had to . say. `The houses that were objected to in the year 11-1 were not the same Louses that were shut up 1813 of cotirse, thry being the King's Arms, the lihick Ilorse, the 'Angel, and the Shin 3 cm recollect their names'at -all. • you receive a nmniorial, signed by the in'irish Akers,. against those houses 1-1 do not :recollect. "Do you recollect whether evidence was Of f ered' , to be tendere d so t he, magt , trates, that the same parties twee connected with thine houses., who were conuecced with the former libuses, the Mkt! of York, the White Hart; and the rat/lours' ,Altus ?--No, • I do not recollect that. Yost sln not recollect Whether any evidence to " - that effect was °ilead to the. magistratei 3-1 Catmot , charge my memory ; whatever. evidence was offered was necessarily received. Did you not at the time know, when the licenses were granted and the !louses reopened, that the Duke of York and the Paviours' Arms were kein by the .same parties' against whom the original c4ooplaint Was made 3—To the, best of my recol lection, two of the persons were restored their iicenies, and I believe it was upon this ground : the principal complaints against them' were, that they ,had, what was mentioned as cock'arol hen clubs, and that they had a lung room tor the re eeptio;t of those persons ; a representation was made, that those long rooms were totally destroy ed, nod the magistrates personally went, and saw that that WelS, the case. %Vzts it not offered to be proved,to you, that though, in the Mike of York . particularly, the lOng.room had been shut up as a' daliCitlg•tandl> yr t teal it hall beets changed into a gin shop, and that there were shoals of prostitutes arid drunken persons going in and out at all hours of the da y ? I be that all thoie houses smite!. Under' the ;. believe • • slime roof of a gin-.4hop and a pia - die-house, a tap. Toon* for , the reception Of those Who thought pro per to go there, and a bar for those who thought proper to go there. Was it not offered to he proved - before - you, that scenes (1 drunkenness', riot, atsd 'debauchery, were cou,t :may practised in 'those - houses 'believe • that such evidence. was of sueb riream . stances having occurred there.' Haying shut up the horses for their being the resort of Wantons characters of boils sexes, and there being pscenes of riot, drunkenness, and de- Wudiety, constantly practised Ocrein, Why did you permit t'lcni to be re-opened while in the trApas of the same persons?--The , magittratei de. terinioed they should. Can you state, as one pf the magistrutes pre what...were the motives that govtirtted your own conduct on that tnrasion ?—I did not ta ke a particular part ; I was merelithe ch*ntan of the meeting, and iliereforc did not personally inter fere. Was the question then decided unanimously 1, 410 not recollect, I should hardly suppose it was. This was a subject that created considerable euskioi.,ftmong .the, magistrates,_ was tt tidt 2-4 consider not at all. Wu i it not a lint 4 StiOn in which there was much matter of dispute between the magistrates on this *object, k iwi the c hin cip.% ardetts...ltt the brat! of whom was Mr. I , letcher carjainly not. Were not Mr... Fletcher and the other chinch wardens extremely anxious that those houses ahoii!ti not be te•opened ?—Mr. Ileteher, and the rt.icty at the head ut which lie was, were anxious that they should tot he re-opened, and another 'arty of vet y respectable inhabitants were anxious that they should he. Mr. net Orr was one of the chorchwordens ?- 1 do.oot recollect. whether he vas in office 4)r not. In.point of . tect, did not the officers 'of the pa rkll re4st the opening of the houses ?-;—Some of them miglq, but .1 do not know that it was unani mously rcia4e(l by the parochial officers ; the par ties i!1 that parish had been in a state Of dissension f o r •Aonie tinge past. Do you think it was a party that led to the op pniltion to the opening of those public-houses, or 0,4( it wi t s a disposition on the part of the parish vtlicers to check those scenes of riot and disgusting tichattchety that assailed the eves and ears of the inhabitants and other persons every hour of the day and night ?—1 cannot say what were their n i oti%es ; 1 suppose their motives were pure. Slave aov complaints, beets laid betore you as a rtiftjstrtite, since that period, of the conduct of thtfAr hooso I—it k not in tuy diitrict. . hen vitt caunot sty whether the same scenes, wbiest were se repreltettdcd, continue ?- - No, 1. cannot say. Thz.re is one tl!ing Y wish to observe, that the greatest care and attention is paid by the magisttates to the moral conduct of publicans ; and taking the whole class of publicans in the Tower Hamlets, I do not know that there is a better regulated set of people in the metropolis they are never at a licensing meeting. without re ceiving an admonition from the Chairman respect ing their conduct ; and that no one its that situa tion might plead ignorance of what the law is, and how it stands at present, the magistrates, at their own expellee, have printed a short abstract of the laws respecting public-houses, and dis tributed nue to each publican. Do you recollect whether Mr. Joseph Fletcher tendered himself to be sworn to give evidence in order to prove the charges' that. were laid against the houses above•mcntioned !----1 tlo not know that he did very probably he might. • You do not recollect having refused to receive it ?-L-No: The Committee arc to understand ihat . the con duct of the publieaus in your division is in gene ral praiseworthy?—Most certainly. You were asked yesterday, whether you could give the Comistittee any information rdative to the licensing of the Marlborough public-house, Fliily well-stteet, Shoreditch, kept by a man of the / name of Charles Price ?-1 have enquired since 1 was before the Committee yesterday, and was iti forrned, that about five or six years since the land lord's license was suspended in consequence of complaint of his 'bating been repeatedly convicted of permitting tippling in his house; the landlord petitioned, nod wes heard in his defence, and the magistrates restored! his license, rand he is now, as 1 understand, keeping. the, same honer. About the character of trice I know nothing. Are you sure it was like or six years ago, and not in 1813 or 1811 ?—Upon inquiring of one of the licensing magistrates' clerks, this 'Morning, I have learnt it was live or hix years ago, and, ac. cordmou the bust of my recollection, it cannot be gas's. Do you nor recollect that it was nut one con viction for tippling, hut that there were four or fi , e, and one for suffering it during divine ser vice ?---It was very likely so. Have you any recollection that the honse was stated to be very disorderly, awl the landlord a person of very indifferent character I—No, 1 have not: The' Committee have before them a copy of the • informations laid at the public office, .Warship‘ street, ShOreditch, against Charles I.trite ; acid "if appears from them, that Lye was convicted for'snt. tering tippling in his house, by Joseph now . , Esq in November, 1813, in 104. penalty ; by John Gifford, en.' the' 4th March, 1814, in 104. penalty ; by Sir William Parsons, on the 22t1 of April, 1814, in 10s. penalty ; bY3obn Gifford, Esq. on the 29th April, 1814, In 10s. penalty ; by ditto, net the 17th of October, 1814, in 10s. penalty ; it appears, therefore, that instead'olits being five or six years ago, it is only two years ago I—Whether those are the identical' Convic tions Upon .which the 'maul' license was stispend ed," I do not kithw; but I can only say that I know nothing as to the facts : Was in conse• queoce of a representation from that office that th'e' man's license wiii..saspentied; there cuts a petition to have the license restored ; it was heard, and int:onsequence of that he was resturii td, and is now landlord of the house. . Was 'it net known to the liceosinginagistrates at the meeting, that the magistrates at Worship street set their faces directly against the licensing that house 1-1 do 'know that they set their faees" against that heuse or not ; the representa tion front.that office was laid before the meeting of magistrates, and the license suspended in con. seqiience of that representation : the man pea.. dotted, and was beaul upon his petition, - and what he had to urge in his defence ;, and upon fine consideration the . inagistrates determined to restore the licease, which was acc o rdingly d one . Should you not think, acting as tt licensing magistrate, that if in the course of 41 months a persOn was five times convicted of breaking the ,law before a magistrate, in- suffering tippling in that he was a person to whom you would.not feel yourself PA - Stiffed in regranting hie license /-1I such a circumstance came before me aati magistrate, I should have felt myself bound to have indicted him upon bis recognizance, and if be bad been found guilty upon that indictment, -he would haie been incapacitated from keeping a puldle.honse for three'years. - The question that was asked, , Was net what you _would have done by way of ,augmenting the pu nishment, but that, whether a man being guilty -those - offences, for which he had been tined by three different magistrates in the course of 11. !months, you would not think that a sufficient pause to Warrant the liienSink magistrates in re fusing to re-license his bouiel--Xertainll. Should you not think that a house licensed, with thOse convictions 'against the publican, on act, to say the least of 'it, highl y irregular would ill become me to call in question the judg ment of other magistrates. You are asked, as a magistrate, whether you would think it within your duty to license a house against which there bad beenlive - convictions 1 — It would all depend upon such, circumstances as might occur in the defence of the - individual, as to the extenuation of the offences. Theo you have no doubt that this person made out such a case before the magistrates es to war rant them in passing over the five different con victions that he had received in the course of thfit preceding year ?—I have no recollection of the circumstames of the case: doubtless the magis trates telt themselves justified, or they would not have done it. There was another case, of which you said yrin would inquire, namely, the licensing a house in St. Genrg.'s in the East ?—I stated. at the time, that unless I could be informed of the name of the street, and also the sign of the house, it would be impossible for me to speak to it. Then you do not know any thing .more upon that subject than what you knew yesterday ?—Cer. tainly not. . It has been stated to the Committee by different witnes4es that have been sumntoned before it, that there is a general prevailing opinion in the Wnitechapel division, that a publican applying for a license fur a . new 'Woe greatest thrOwn in his way by the licensing magift7ates, unless be conies with the recomaien dation' of Messrs. Millbury and Co. ?—I believe that is not true ; it is to be considered that there are twenty-six licensing magistrates, that a great portion of them attend at the licensing time, and it is not likely that the minds of those men .would be pervaded with any sad) unjust principle. Do you menu to state, that the fact itself is not true; or that the opinion is not true ?—I am per fectly convinced that the fact as stated is not true. , It has' been stated, nut only that the fact is .true, but that there is a generally received opi nioo that it is so; the fact yOu deny ?—Certainly. Has it ever come to your knowledge that there was that impression on. the minds of the publicans !of your district ?—No ; excepting that I have heard people any, that if thel had applied to the house of Messrs. Flanbury for their interest, they would perhaps have had. better success. Do yott knowor can you furnish the Commit tee with au account or, - the number of new Mouses that have been licensed, tora certain ",amber of yeats ?—Nro - , 1 do not ; but licenses hard been dealt out with a V cly slating hand; the aLcount .reunited wi i l be furnished as soon as the licensing cleiks cast make it out. In ni fat!., hive there been many appli, CH I.lllh Millie I (he boat(' of iliAgisirettes. by Messrs. y. for 'licenses ?—None b 3 thealielves per bona ly, I believe. 114%,e thvir agebts, Mr. Ariling, or. any one ,else ettipl-ytil by them, mode applicatitats to the board tot lICCUbCS think not it is not pro bable. I hen it never become a question at all cliscuma at• the boaril, , ms.to the recommendation of pat ti eunit individuals to receive their licenses ?—Neree. Then the sole question you have to discuss, and the sole question you do discuss, is, whether the neighbourhood wants the public-house, and whether the character of the individual soliciting to establish one ig good or bad ?---The principal object of magistrates in licensing new houses, is first of all to see whether the neighbourhood re quires such a - house, and they decide upon the spot. • And the principle of that decision is, whether the neighbourhood wants the house ?—Whether it. is the accommodation that the public requires, Then you take •it upon yourself. distinctly to say, - that the influence and authority of Messrs. 'llanbury and Co. and Mess's. Stables and %%11. Hams, in-that district, has no more weight or ef fect over the board of licemsing magistrates, than that of any other brewer or spirit dealer in the metropolis 1-1 certainly so conceive it, because ,there are several other brewers and ,distillers in (hat district who are proprietors of publie-hOuses. Has it ever'cOme to your knowledge that by far the greater proportion of those houses in that neighbOurboorl are held by Messrs. Hanbury, or that Messrs. Banbury and Co. furnish them with beer ?—I have never made enquiry into that subject. Have you-in point of fact ever beard that it is the case ?—No, I !lam not. it is natural to con clude, that a brewer 91 such eminence 113 Mr. Han bury, resiaing upon the spot, will ban more houses upon that spot than any other brewer. Are Messrs. Stables and tililliains,uho are dis tillers,..any relations of yours ?---Messrs. Stables and Williams were not distillers. ' What were they ?—They were wine -merchants, but are not now iii hii intss ; the partnership hes been &solved above a twelvemonth. Are they any relations of youis ?—Mr. Stahits is a nephew of mine. Wa' their trade set up at your expence, or at Mr. Hanhury's expenee 3-1 believe Mr. Han bury never supplied an iota towards it in any way whatsoever. Then it is within your knowledge that Messrs. Ilanbury are the proprietors of most of the public houses in that neighbouVhooti that if not pro prietors, they furnish them with liquor ?—lt is not within my knowledge any su c h t hi ng. Did you ever'hear thersuch was the case, or do you believe it /—No, I do not believe it is the case. • Had you ever any conversation with Mr. Beau mont neon the subject of- licensing a house - in Whitehorse-lane, Mile-end-road?—Mr. Beaumont has applied for the licensing•two or three houses 'in that neighbourhood, The Marquis of Granby is the one Which is al in&qi tol—He 'applied for it, and it was refused. Did you ever learn 'that he had offered that house to Messrs. Hanbury and Co. ?—No. Did he ever tell you he had otTered to part with the house to them ?-1 do not recollect any such conversation ; I have very little intercotuse with Mr. Beaumont. Have you never heard that terms were propos ed by him to Messrs. - Hailbury for the parting with that house That he had received something in the nature of an understanding that the ho►►se would he censed if Mr. Banbury bought it, and that in consequence of that being declined by Mr. Han= bury, it was refused to be licensed 1-1 know of no such occurrence ; the magistrates assemble on the spot, and determine whether such house shall be licensed. It is not then the custom of the magistrates to settle beforehand what houses they will license or not I—Certaiiily not. Are you accustomed to meet the day before the licensing day to determine what betties . you will license or not ?--Never any - Web Meeting takes plate; they-ave.-ad-m-14mb, and a notice is sent to the.ditTereut licensing magistrates .of the days of meeting and the time of meeting. Then there is no meeting between particular magistrates,' ot , which you are one, the day before t►,e licensing day, in order 'to - determine what houses you will license or not ?--No. - And that has never happened ?--Never. You have stated that the partnership_between Messrs. Stables and 'Williams is dis!=olved #--It is. Dp they carry pp business seiarately they have ratireti from business. When you commit persons to prison, where clo you commit to i to what prison i—if they sre for further examination, generally the New Prison, Clerkenwell, unless.there is some porticular cir curustaucg that wakes it tie - coma) , to keep.-tinor separated from others, a: :d in such cases we Om them to the House of Correction. What k the distance from your office to Clerked well ?—I should suppose about three miles. How are the prisoners conveyed backwards en' forwards t--They are conveyed 'by an' officer e wiled to the office, who executes the duties e gaoler, either in a coach or otherwise. But generally they are marched two and twi through the streets ?-'--Yes. Handcuffed ?—I suppose so. Did you ever examine the prison of Clerken well yourself l—Yes, I have. tVtiat is your opinion of the condition of the prison ?—That the gr eater part of it oug ht to b polled down : that it should be extended, in peck to accommodate the number of prisoners that ar.. committed there. 1 should suppose it is losowl to the Committee that a meeting of the magistrate did take place, irt.order to report to the countyth state of that prison.; mid that report was accord " ingly made, and a plan annexed , f or the Tem° making of such buildings is were thought proper, and ti an additional building to hold 200 wur than the building now COO( ttillS. po you not know that in that prison there no classi fi cation of prisoners at all, with the ex cept ion of the separation of mule from' female Certainly there is not. Do yon not consider that persons sent there fo the first offence are rendered worse members 0 society when they come out than when they wen in I—l certainly think they would not be invorrd Do you not consider that the p rison, itt the s(all in which it is now, is discreditable to ;iremac& I have already expressed !ha my opinion. very much increased within the last t wenty years l Do yon think the vice of shrinking to excess hi! No, I do not think it has ; .in tuy own opini nfl I should think there has been a considerable di' mi Do nntion of that -vice. you not think there is a moth less CI sumptiou of spirits than there Was 20 years s I should consider that the consumption of Pi r Y t mast be much decreased ; I have no doubt of htl and that the vice of intoxication -among the low ranks is not so frequent. (To be continued.) II POLICE INTELLIGENCS. ro re s it lin iii: BOW-STREET. Another Outrage at Wednesday evening a man endeavoured to for 4, his wic i r into the One-shilling Gallery of Dr at l i i lane '1 heatre without paying. lie of II" price, but it was only about half past six o'eW ki the performance had noi begun, nor was even tit curtain drawn, of course half price ITO " t f, tented ; he then, with great ‘iolence, endeave.., ed to force his way in u ithout paying any tbi, n ri whieb, on being resisted, he violently stio:tutit Mr.. T. Parrock, the clieck-taker, arid i ll. ' ... • Watley, the door-keeper ; the latter be kicked 0! his groin, lie Also violently sw i m ! R, Wes" brook and T. Middleton, the constables naval the Theatre. Oa his being secured aryl br 4/ 1 to the Office, lie said his name was Pr . m. ridg e° ": and he lived in Moor-street, Paddington. 14e.st ordered td find bail to a nswer to all the asss.tilti' , QUKEN-sQUARE. _ 4 ; 4 CONDUCT 07 WATCHIttrx.--Jacob Marv , ot , I :,, of the Watchmen of St. Martin's, was cilaqco do a Gentlerniu, residing at Westminster,' atilt 410 assault. Coinphd uant said,. he and his not,.. k i 4 n/ e r r vr e ro . P p t r e t m i l l ain g g i w i h ia i a t g t i e tween twelve and one o'clock on the sure preer"lr; morning, w h en the watchman came up, a nd bi a friend at diaringcrotg,tuti, &C. This naturaltlhoPerdioerltieltialtatte"Ftlhaen' I. :astern:::: insisted on—knowing his name, on wh ic ",,, t ioi other flourished his stick, threatening destrb—ch to tlierii all; he was, however, taken C O the " t oo t C assault,i' by h l e i rpiiktil pulled" off the l' G i g et c t o t livetlasAni)(Pla cr" Is se .. fait ; lie then ran out of the IkOnse , but V,,5,,,,at cared by one of the Constables ; the c0n , 1" 4 6 „ 1 . added, tie felt reluctant in coming forwsrd il : ) ,: t be sequence of the public situatio n be bela. 4 , l ot knew many instances of th e watchma9 nics c',71,004 Previously, in endeavouring to extort "" e e'felt it a duty he owed to the Public to ti l t ' and punish him, as an exampl e to alba `v° men. watchman in very severe terms, - Mr. F ugL , DING ' reprobated the opportunityt to rprese nt Itlois attend, should be bound over to answer the comPlallt/41,1s the ensuing Sessions, lie ordered the C :,... tis t d ill the mean time,. anti to give the complainaat,bio conduct td Mr. Birnie, of Bow•street, ''"- . the head of the Board. ---''''' late Stl Royal Vetere us, of a daughter. ..—.............-----.-- BIRTH. On the e9th ult. at Orr-' cat. ernrey, the Lady 0 . ------''. i n t o n rlld'eer ItioCe:rtilerflYl)tr'::::thii—e,linfil:',:lb:l:l,Llets Nt AIMED. c s oe fis anti eiitect.rot Pot vOn Saturday last, at Kitneeross , it* trard Vas" ';Clor nu'. to Miss negrusa, lc been.Bennet, daughte: of John Bentirt) F:sq..o. to At Shandon, lieutenant Lambert, Royal Navr' k ....,,, Attu,.l ... t o : 1 eldest , S ua atU e i t Saturday ri d aLy c 1 4:11 Chug e t: d tg f Cheltenham, ‘d l au tg l i, li tl,rd ° a A : l a r ' . ( E ; a s t i lt' . : f rd t.; 1 " re. i l 'a t i f to lfi; terabire. .;!h:Pdtinhgt::ukt, .I .f il . 61').1v:., Al tin Wednesdayy,.uingeteTsl.rasisftribe:tuceira4a:n-d-en TOW" P Mr. E ' ' C l: :l3 ' irl ' ag ea Thursday, i a r May, ark‘d : l ag: . i g w et of ... . . Nos “ go. Yesterday, at Haek 7 ney; P. Jam e s , Es I'l3 e , On the sth ill3t. at kis bousein'Netsport, at It °4l n sa c° e ag irl °e : n s j t u dst lll ig ji b °7 t ni e eh :o °l: fib q: e .37 l tr al C a Plr' i n4l grrl C:hu i t ra tilleel l -ert-St:clinr:4lnitdae r :':.g':l;ll'e):ll:::. n Grove. - On flu: flab inst. at Sicintouth, in be ilan year /,:, 1 e 5,.. i , M t :. CLarles Satterthwaite - , widow of the T h e te `;',„lt i b eo ril eirteLl t ataa b rto r eedts.r it ys e ir . : E nhe s il 9 is . ss . e , at f lte l :r a iTici n a t ,no as : t uE e tsc r o , n. a ,f r o l n i r l tn el : rTi c i s y t. st e r r t et d o s y l ::; sott o Wales, Otptailt Johri Crymes, Of tr e r ft rj . 3 N r . er." rk o ct ri vr th o e f 'rt h h , i bw st i .jn his 760 veae tl,e the n 1 -11~l tau c i , el Stf°lll: o ' f tt.titinhe.stlay, at'ChaerildteanbLa-4mb,°.Yulto°fet:lT:'Cjn Igt:;;;be.age6lPPltan Master a the Certtnerfliti Of that place, a wl ir 1 . 11 : Trntt;.- Assemby Rooms, Rath. Os .tbe remove' ci . itbe C c 1735 to the Upper Rnems, be *as elo:ted blas h e resies; monies of th e 14ser Assembly Rooms ' and ~n t,7, te , d t o 0 ...It" of Mr. Tyson, Mr. King was himielf tren".4105.„,.., upper Rooms, at the commenseesent of the season v e islllll To • tit . . Prtlited. toy' J CA.10 41 , WO! bullthafs and by W. it. Sc'!ILIPS 41,1d,reft O ,J; at tilt: Sua-Orrit-g. No. jI2, Strand ; wiw,r e .pas oo ' atonts;Orders,Lattars,3Lc. (pottlAti4) sz lat we-