The Sun. — London, England, 1848-03-11 00:00:00

- IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE UP :hercit 10. The 17..r1 cf SRATTEF.I3I7:IY, in th.? aLience of the Lord anncelior, took his seat upon the Woolsack at Five o'clock. Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition in favour of sanitary reform. The Earl of lIARDWICKE presented several petitions from shipowners and mariners of various seaport towns against any alteration . in the navi gation-laws. IRISH POOR. LAW. Earl FITZWILLIAM gave notice that he should move for returns of the number of able bodied male adult paupers receiving relief in the various unions in Ireland, either in the workhouse or out of it, on the Ist December, Dt January, Ist February, and Ist March last. He should move for this return for the purpose of ascertaining whether pau perism was on the increase or on the decrease in Ireland. He would also, at the same time, move for a return of the various unions in Ireland in which the granting of out-door relief had been authorised. He should move for these returns on Monday next. Their Lordships then adjourned. 110 USE OF COMMONS. Illaich 10. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. LINCOLN ELECTION. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL brought up the report of the Committee appointed to try the merits of tho election for the city of Lincoln, reporting that Charles Seeley, Esq., was not duly elected for the city of Lincoln ; that the last election for Lincoln, so far as It concerned Mr. Charles Seeley, was a void election ; that he was guilty by his agents of bribery; and that a system of treating had long existed in the city of Lincoln. The Hon. Member then moved for a new writ for Lincoln in the room of Mr. Seeley. Colonel SIBTHORP defended the city of Lincoln against the imputations cast upon it by the report, and denied in most energetic terms, that any illegal act had ever taken place either on his part or those who supported him on his election for Lincoln, which he had represented for upwards of twenty years, and some members of his family for upwards of a century. After some observations from Mr. BRIGHT and Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, A new writ was issued for Lincoln in the room o: Mr. Seeley. HARWICH ELECTION. Mr. J. STUART WORTLEY, the Chairman of the Committee appointed to try the merits of the Harwich Election, appeared at the Bar, and reported that Mr. Beckett, one of the members of the Committee, did not attend the Committee this morning, on account of in disposition. He understood that Dr. Wilson had attended the Hon. Member, and he should, therefore, move that Dr. Wilson be called to the bar, in order to satisfy the House of the indisposition of the Hon. Member. Dr. 'Wilson having been called to the bar, stated that Mr. Beckett could not have attended the Com mittee to. day without danger, nor would he be able to attend it to-morrow. On the motion of Mr. J. STUART WORTLEY, Mr. Beckett was discharged from further attendance on the Committee till Monday. STANDING ORDERS. Mr. BERNAL, pursuant to notice, moved—" That in cases of Bills affecting canals or navigations form ing part of any general chain or system of inland water communication, the proprietors of any other canal or navigation farming part of such general chain, shall be entitled to be heard upon any petition which they may present against such Bills before the Committees to which such Bills shall be referred." Sir R. INGLis and Sir W. HXATTIOOTE trusted that the Hon. Member would postpone the motion, in order that it might be well considered before it was adopted. Mr. STRUTT was in favour of the adoption of the motion, but had no objection to its being rst poned if it was considered necessary that it should be more maturely considered before it was agreed to. Mr. BROIHERTON thought the motion one which was -ell worthy the consideration of the House. _ _ _ _ _ _ Mr. E. DENISON considered the motion of such importance that, it should be adjourned to Monday for further consideration. After a few words from Sir J. DUCKWORTH, Mr. BERNAL consented to prorose the motion merely as a sessional order. This course was acceded to, and the motion was adopted. PENZANCE WATERWORKS. Mr. MO WATT proposed the second reading of this Bill, which was agreed to. On the motion that the Bill be committed, _ _ _ Sir C. LEMON moved that it be committed this day six months. He wished the Bill had emanated from parties altogether unconnected with Penzance. The subscription contract did not contain the name of a single rate-payer. Mr. WYLD supported the Bill, on the ground that the town was badly supplied with water. Provision had been inserted in the Bill to give the Commissioners of Penzance compensation for any injury which the town might sustain in consequence of the carry #ag out of the works. In a sanitary point of view the measure was a mo,t important one. He thought the House should accede to the committal of the Bill, in which stage some alterations might be made, in order to render it more palatable to those who op posed it. Mr. MOWATT defended the Bill. The parties promoting the Bill had paid up the necessary capital, and as they had obtained a Bill to construct similar works at Falmouth, they conceived they had some claim to be entrusted with power to construct waterworks at Penzance. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion .. 62 Against it .. 45 Majority . —l7 The Bill was then ordered to be committed. AYLESBURY ELECTION. The Members of the Committee appointed to try he Aylesbury election petition were summoned to the bar and sworn. PETIT taNs. Mr. MUNTZ presented a petition against the principle ofcentralization embraced by the Health of Towns 13i11. Mr. REYNOLDS presented a petition from Dublin praying for the repeal of the 17th and 18th of Charles the Second, obliging Dissenters to contri bute to the support of the Established Church. Mr. SHARMNN CRAWFORD presented a pe tition from Rochdee against the present income-tax. INCOME-TAX. Dr. BOW RING moved for a copy of the charges preferred to the Board of Stamps and Taxes, by Mr. Thomas Jones, hate clerk to the Commissioners for General Purposes for the City of London, under the Property and Income-tax Act, against Mr. Edward Welsh, the surveyor of taxes fer the City of London, on the 23d day of April, 1847, with the minute of the Board of Stamps and Taxes of the 27th day of July last in reference thereto.—A greed to. PRINTING PETITIONS. Mr. LAW moved that the petition of the Chan cellor and Scholars of the University of Cambridge (presented 9th March), be printed with the votes. Mr. GREENE must oppose the printing of pe titions, merely upon the ground that it came from a respectable body. Some years ago it was found to be a matter of serious inconvenience that so many petitions were required to be printed, and a Com mittee was appointed to devise a remedy for the evil. The result of that Committee was the adoption of an order by the House, that no petition should be printed unless the Hon. Member who moved that it should be printed intended to found a motion upon it.- It did not appear that the Hon. and Learned Member intended to found a motion upon this peti tion; and, therefore, there could be no necessity to print it.—(Llear, hear.) Mr. LAW said he was not at all surprised at the opposition which had been raised to the - motion for printing the petition. Upon a question vitally affect ing the Protestant religicn of this country, he thought that it might be allowed to one of the Members of the University of Cambridge to propose that the sen timents held by that body should be communicated to e House as soon as possible. Dr. BOWRING rose to order. He did not think that, as this was an opposed motion, the Hon. Mem ber could have precedence over orders of the day. The SPEAKER said that, no doubt, in point of order, the lion. Member was not entitled to move that the petition be printed, unless he gave notice of his intention to found a motion thereon. Mr. LAW said that if that were so he would then give notice that he would specially call the attention of the House to the subject of that petition, Mr. W. PATTEN said that he thought the Hon. Member had no right whatever to impute any mo tives to his Hon. Friend who had objected, in point of form, to the petition being printed. He felt con vinced that the Hon. Member for Lancaster, in the cotoree he had adopted, had been instigated by no other motives than the proper and faithful discharge of his d'iity.—(llear, hear.) He trusted, there fore, that the Hon. and Learned Member for Cambridge would at once perceive that he was in "Tor in the assertions he had made, and would with draiy them. Mr. L kVir did not intend in the slightest degree to impute improper !motives to the Hon. Member for Lancaster.—(Hear, hear.) If anything had been said by him which could be'considered in the slightest degree disrespectful to the Hon. Member he would at once withdraw it.—(Flear, hear.) Sir GEORGE GREY th oug ht th a t th e H ouse WAS greatly indebted to the Hon. Member for Lancaster for the attention he had paid to the orders of the House, and the great assistance he bad in variably given to every Member, in order that they might be enabled to adopt them. He trusted, there 1.,' d 7-V_lcrEber for Cam- bzidge Would withdrew his motion. After some further discussion, Mr. LAW withdrew his motion. COTTON WOOL. Mr. POLE CAREW moved, pursuant to notice, for " Accounts of the total number of pounds weight of cotton wool imported into the United Kingdom, in each year, from 1815 to 1847, both inclusive; distinguishing the quantities imported from the United States of America, Brazil, the Me diterranean, the East Indies, and the British West Indies, respectively, from that imported from all other parts; with the several rates of duty payable upon such cotton wool in the United Kingdom during that period ; and the total amount of duty received in each year. Of the total quantities and declared value of British cotton goods, and of cotton twist, yarn, or thread, exported from the United Kingdom to all parts of the world, in each year from 1815 to 1847, both inclusive ; specifying the number of yards, and declared value of all goods entered by the yard ; the declared value of such goods as are entered by value only, as hosiery, lace, &c. ; and the number of pounds weight and declared value of cotton twist, yarn, or thread, so exported • showing the aggregate declared value of all such exports in each year. Similar accounts to the foregoing of the export of British cotton manufactured goods, and cotton twist, yarn, or thread, to the United States of America ; and, account of the total official value of all goods imported into, and the total official value of the produce and manufactures of the United Kingdom, and of foreign and colonial merchandise, respectively, with the aggregate of such amounts exported from the United Kingdom to the United States of America ; also, the total declaredvalue of the produce and manu factures of the United Kingdom so exported, in each year, from 1816 to 1847, both inclusive.—Agreed to. COUNTY COURTS. Dr. BOWRING moved, pursuant to notice, for a tabular return of the amounts received monthly by the treasurers of the county courts; of the name of the bank in which such amounts are deposited, and of the balances in hand on the Ist day of March, 1848 ; also, of the amounts withdrawn monthly; showing also in whose name the accounts are kept, whether interest is allowed on the balances, and to whom the said interest (if any) is paid ; stating also whether any and what amount of security has been given, and the nature of the security. The account to exhibit, in a separate column, the amount of suitors' money unclaimed.—Agreed to. THE LEGACY DUTY. On the motion of Mr. HUME the following re turns were ordered :--The amount of capital on which the several rates of legacy duty have been paid in Great Britain in the years ended the sth day of January, 1847, and the sth day of January, 1848 ; and an abstract of the total amount under each rate since 1797 : showing the amount of capital on which the several rates of legacy duty have been paid in Ireland, for the year ended the sth day of January, 1847, and distinguish ing the amount of each rate; also, an abstract of the total amount under each rate since 1797. Account, showing the total amount of duties on legacies, pro bates, and administrations received in Ireland in the years ended the sth day of January 1847, and the sth day of January, 1848. Returns of the total amount of revenue received in the United Kingdom, in the year ended the sth day of January, 1847, for stamp duty on legacies, on probates, administrations, and testamentary inventories; distinguishing the amount from England and Wales, from Scotland and from Ireland : of total duty received in. England, Scotland, and Ireland since 1797, distinguishing legacies from probates, adminis trations, and testamentary inventories ; also an abstract of the aggregate amount from legacies and probates, &c., in England and \Vales, in Scot land and in Ireland. And account, showing the total amount of duty on legacies, probates, and administra tions received in each year in Ireland since the year 1797 to the sth day of January, 1848 (in continua tion of Parliamentary Paper No. 71, of Session 1846). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not object to either of the last returns, because he had not heard their purport; he rose, however, for a different purpose, namely, to express his disapproval of the growing practice that now prevailed of Hon. Members moving for unopposed returns without any communication with the departments by which they were to be furnished. He had no objection to the re • turn moved for just now by the Honourable Member for Montrose, which was taken out of its turn.—(Hear, hear.) He had no objection to a motion for a return being taken out of its turn if an 'understanding to that effect subsisted with the department by which it was to be supplied; but when the contrary was the case, he thought the convenience of the House would be better consulted if such re • turns were taken in their regular order. In all cases the departments to which the returns had reference should be communicated with.—(Hear.) Mr. HUME said he communicated the purport of his first motion to Mr. Wickham, 'one of the Under Secretaries of the Treasury, four days ago, and that he offered no objection to it.—(Hear, hear.) The return with respect to the legacy duty ;fie had named session after session for the last five and twenty years.—(Hear.) He asked the House if there was any ground for the statement of the Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, so far as he was concerned ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the consent of the Treasury should invariably be obtained before Hon. Gentlemen brought forward motions which they imagined would not be opposed. Mr. HUME said Mr. Parker consented to his other motion. Mr. V. SMITH said the expense of printing and stationery was one of the largest that came before them, and that Hon. Gentleman, before moving for returns, should consult the intelligent library officers as to whether similar returns had not been moved fur, as it was frequently found, after great expense had been incurred, that all the information required was to be found in the archives of the library. He was a member of the Printing Committee, appointed at the instigation of the Speaker, and facts of this kind had come to his knowledge in the course of the investigations that were made. It was very necessary that the suggestion of seeking information from the officers of the library should be attended to. When the Speaker bad been appealed to he had invariably stated that the matter rested entirely in the discretion of the House. Mr. PARKER corroborated the statement of Mr. Hume. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL gave it as his opinion, that moving for unopposed returns without previous no tice was a most inconvenient practice. Mr. HORSMAN said many of the blue-books presented to the House were utterly useless, and he ventured to declare that the majority of those ordered to be printed last year had found their way to the butter-shop. WEST INDIA COLONIES. Mr. BARKLY moved that the petition o! the agri culturists, merchants, and other inhabitants of the island of Jamaica be printed with the votes. — Agreed to. METROPOLITAN DISTRESS. Mr. Alderman SIDNEY moved that the petition from numerous individuals in the city of London, complaining of the alarming increase in window breaking, be printed with the votes.—Agreed to. AYLESBURY ELECTION. Mr. NEWDEGATE moved that the petition of John Peter Deering, Esq., Member for the borough of Aylesbury, be referred to the Select Committee appointed to try the merits of the last election and return for the said borough of Aylesbury. Sir W. HEATIICOTE could see no necessity for the House agreeing to the motion, for all that the petitioner required would be done by the Committee without their having any petition of the sort before them. Sir G. CLERK said that, in his opinion, the House had not the power to interfere by referring this petition to the Committee. The Act of Parlia ment clearly defined what petitions should be referred to the Committee, and those petitions only could be referred to such Committee. If the door were once opened to admit petitions of this nature, there would be no end to petitions which would be sent to Com mittees for the purpose of guiding or biassing their decisions. After a few words from Mr. S. WORTLEY, the motion was withdrawn. CONSTITUTION OF NEW SOUTH WALES. Mr. SCOTT wished to know whether the Govern ment had any intention of making any and what change in the constitution of New South Wales; whether any communication of such an intention had been made to the Legislative Council of the colony, in order to obtain the opinion of the colony upon such a proposed alteration ; and, if so, whether the Govern ment would lay the papers before Parliament. Mr. L ABOUCHERE stated that it was intended to introduce a Bill for the separation of the Govern ment of New South Wales from that of Port Philip; that it was not usual to make communications with the Legislative Councils of an y of the colonies, but that communications had been made with the Governor of New South Wales on the subject, and the Colonial Office were now waiting the arrival of a dispatch from the Governor, in answ er to a communication sent from this country on the subject of theseparation of the two Governments he had referred to. With respect to the papers, they would be laid upon the table of the House he expected shortly. SPANISH TARIFFS. Mr. BANKES wished to ask the Foreign Secre tary whether any reply had been received to the representations made by our Minister at the Court of Madrid, some months ago, on the subject of increased duties imposed by the Government of Spain on articles of British manufacture ; also, why no return I- , in c ,, n - ipli: , rc.? with +l7e_.. erl"r nC 41,;e 11,,usQ, reTecting the present tariffs of ►Spain and Portugal? Lord PALMERSTON said, in answer to the first question of the Hon. Member, he might state that an answer had been received, dated the 28th of Decem ber last, to the communication made by her Majesty's Minister in Madrid, and that answer he would lay on the table of the House. It argued at some length that the decrees were not liable to the objections that had been taken to them, and stated that they were only intended to prevent abuse.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the other question he had to state that he had sent fresh directions to Madrid and Lisbon to procure the returns, and he felt satisfied that there not having been sent arose from an over sight, and nothing else. He would lay all the papers when he received them on the table of the House. DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ROME. Mr. PLUMPTRE wished to know whether it was the intention of the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department to move the second reading of the Diplomatic Relations with Rome Bill on Monday, and if not, on what day he intended to move the second reading ? Lord PALMERSTON was afraid that the state of the public business would prevent him moving the second rea3ing of the Bill on Monday next; he would therefore postpone it to Monday week. INCOME-TAX (IRELAND). Mr. HAMILTON, seeing the Hon. Baronet the Member for Marylebone in his place, was desirous of knowing whether it was his intention to bring for ward the motion of which he had given notice, for extending the income-tax to Ireland ? Sir B. HALL said it certainly was his intention to bring on the motion, and he should take the sense of the Committee upon it. As to the time when he should bring it forward, it was impossible for him to say, as the debate on the income-tax was now going on; until it was determined, he could not bring for ward his motion. The best advice he could give to the Hon. Member was to pass the question on to the Chancellor of the Exthequer, and to ask him when, if the Committee came to a decision whether the income-tax should be for one year or for three, he proposed to go into a Committee of Ways and Means ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER — On Monday, Sir.—(Laughter.) DURHAM CATHEDRAL. Lord J. RUSSELL, in answer to a question from Mr. llorsman, stated, as we understood, that it was not the intention of the Government to fill up the vacant stall in the Cathedral of Durham. SCOTCH ENTAIL BILL. Sir G. GREY, in reply to Air. B. Cochrane, stated the second reading of this Bill stood for Tues day. The Lord Advocate was absent from town, and if the Bill could not be taken on that day the second reading would be fixed for an early day. WAYS AN I) MEANS.-THE INCOME-TAX The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved the order of the day for going into a Committee of the whole House on the income-tax. Several petitions having been presented against the income•tax, the Home went into Committee; Air. Bernal in the chair. Mr. J. 'WILSON rose and said, that the real question which the House had now to decide was, whether they were willing to go on, or not, with their present system of financial policy? In reference to the subject of free trade, he was willing to admit that, notwithstanding the prosperity that it had been maintained by its advocates would be the result of freedom of trade, the commerce of the country was in a prostrate condition.—(Eiecr, hear.) But whilst he admitted that he thought he could show that there were circumstances connected with the question which would sufficiently explain the cause of that result, and show that they ought not to be referred to the Acts in regard to commercial policy which were adopted in 1842 and 1845, it was hardly necessary that he should do more than refer to the state of their finances in 1849, after the speech of the Right lion. Bironet (Sir Robert Peel) the other night; but he might be allowed to observe that the Right lion. Baronet had him self admitted that, in imposing the income-tax in 1842, he had two objects in view —first, to equalise the income with the expenditure of the country; and, secondly, to relieve the springs of industry and commerce of the country from burdens which pressed upon :them. Now, how had those objects been effected? Since the year 1842 the Right lion. Baronet repealed taxes to the following extent: — Taxes reduced or repealed from 1842 to 1846 inclu sive : 1842 A1,590,000 1843 1844 1845 1846 7,897,000 Taxes imposed, income and property 5,624,000 Profit —(Hear, hear.) Surely, after that statement, it scarcely required any remarks on his part to show what relief the removal of such an amount of taxation as this must have given to the industry of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Bat what had been the state of the Customs and Excise in 1842, when this policy was first com menced, and in 1847? Produce of Customs and Excise Duties:- 1842. 1847. Customs X 23,515,374 22,278,316 Excise 14,602,847 15,012,143 £38,118,221 37,290,459 —(Hear, hear.) So that such had been the effect of the recent policy, that the revenue from these two sources had risen, in 1847, to within 700,000/. or 800,0001. of what it was in 1842.—(Hear, hear.) What, too, had been the effect of this policy upon the debt of the coun try ? In 1842 the Government paid to the Bank of England no less a sum than 100,0001. as interest for the money borrowed from that establishment to carry on the business of the country ; but the following figures in relation to the amount of deficiency bills would show what had since been the result of the policy pursued:— Deficiency Bills. Jan. 5, 1842 26,600,000 1843 ... ... 8,560,000 1844 ... . . ... 5,462,000 1845 ... ... 2,095,000 1846 280,000 1847 ... Nil. (Hear, hear.) From these facts it appeared that in the last year the Government had been in a position to pay all their liabilities without any application to the Bank of England.—(Hear, hear.) This must surely be con sidered as no trifling advantage, that, whilst they had b - en reducing taxation to the extent of upwards of 7,000,000/. sterling, they had also cleared cif upwards of 6,000,0001. of unfunded debt.—(Hear, hear.) But what had been the annual saving to the country which had rolulted from the policy which had been so much impugned ? Ile found that it had been as follows: Charge of funded debt £1,295,580 Management ••• ... ... ... 68,612 Interest on deficiency-bills ... ... 98,600 Interest on Exchequer-bills ... 475,033 Reduction in the Customs and Excise duties 7,897,000 Making an annual saving to the country of £9,834,825 —(Hear, hear.) But let them now refer to the com mercial consequences which had been the result of this policy. He admitted .that in 1842 commerce had been in a very prostrate condition. He admitted, too, that they (the advocates of free trade) had held out to Hon. Gentlemen opposite the hope that, if this country relaxed its tariff, other nations would follow the ex ample thus set them. But whilst he said that it would have been a gratifying result of their policy had such been the case, he confessed that such a considerati on would not have any very great weight with him—(Hear, hear)—in carrying out a policy of this sort, inasmuch as he did not see why we should do ourselves an injury merely because foreign nations might not at at once see the policy of adopting the system which we considered it to be for our own interest to pursue. But it was a somewhat remarkable fact that, in looking into this question, he did find that a large increase in our exports had taken place to those very countries where the tariffs were most hostile to the interests and trade of this country. — (Hear, hear.) Now this, he contended, as it was an in disputable, so it was a most satisfactory, result of the policy that had been pursued. The Hon. Member then referred to the causes of the distress which had for the last two years prevailed among the commercial and manufacturing community; and, coming to the questions of imports and exports under the policy of the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, observed that he could not but avail himself of that occasion to express his thanks to the Right Hon. Gentleman for having enabled the country, during a period of such severe trial, to import those articles which, prior to 1842 and 1845, they could not have imported, such as grain, provisions, cattle, and so forth.—(Hear, hear). It was remarkable, too, that, notwithstanding the importations which had thus taken place, there was throughout the country a general complaint that animal food was never so dear. — (Hear, hear.) The consequence of the reduction of duties in 1842 had been the following position of their imports in 1545 and 1847: IMPORTED. 1846. 1847. Grain ... qrs. 2,162,644 9,437,03 4 Flour ... cwts. 953,000 8,637,00 0 Live animals ... No. 34,000 216,000 Provisions ••• cwts. 133,000 461 , 000 Butter ... 254,000 314,000 Cheese ... „ 268,000 355,000 —(Hear, hear.) Now, he would ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite what would have been our condition if these imports had not taken place, and if the sliding scale had interfered to exclude the greater portion of the grain which had thus come into this country ? The Hon. Gentlemen opposite had prepared a very ingenious de vice, as they thought, to let corn in when corn was dear; but he was prepared to show that, under the sliding scale, they could not have imported corn from other than the neighbouring countries of Europe, 01l of which coun tries, as it had happened, had been as badly off, and as much in want of corn, as ourselves.—(Hear, bear.) But what was the fact ? Why, that one-half of the corn that had been imported had come from the distant ports of Am(i lea, and the other half from Russia, the voyage from each being something like three months.—(hear, hear.) He was willing to admit that their exports had not kept pace with their im ports ; but he trusted to be able to show that they ought not, on that account, to lose their confidence ill the system of commercial policy which had of late years TEE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVEN !NG, been adopted. Let the House consider the f ac ts in rPTtrd to !hr‘ir exports to th' -n 7 ntr:— "i• el west of .E . Laupt, cuutuil,ol to quote : EXPORTS TO SOUTHERN AND WESTERN EUROPE. -- 1816. 1847. Cotton twist lbs. 102,629,904 Thread and sewing .., 896,128 Plain calicoes ...yards 109,417,407 Printed calicoes 76,548,710 Linens Woollens X 2,067,136 Silks EXPORTS TO EASTERN MARKETS. 1846. 1847. Cotton twist lbs. 27,665,843 Thread and sewing 114,746 Plain calicoes yds. 289,926,041 Printed calicoes .. 35,147,317 Linens Woollens Silks Thus, it was plain that there was a great sympathy be tween the markets of these countries and their own, and that the same cause had led to depression of trade iu the one case as in the other. But in the first year in which the great importations already referred to had taken place from the United , i States and from Russia, what had been the result as regarded their exports to these two countries? EXPORTS TO THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA. 1846. 1847. Plain calicoes yards 12,468,113 44,460,459 Printed calicoes 17,240,546 Linens Woollens 1,354,246 Silks Cotton twist lbs. 14,116,502 thread So that their exports to these two countries from which they had imported these large supplies of grain and provisions showed an increase of 300 per cent. on cali coes, 80 per cent.. on woollens, and 100 per cent. on silks; and if that was not to be taken as a favourable indication of the ultimate results of the present com mercial system he confessed he knew not lwhat was , (Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member then referred to the remarks of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, the other night, on the subject of the spirit duties, who, he said, appeared to imagine that it was only necessary to reduce a duty in order to put the benefit into the pocket of the foreign producer. He thought, however, that, by the Noble Lord's own showing, some 6s. of that benefit, iu the case of brandy, as stated by the Noble Lord himself, came to the share of the consumer. He admitted, with the Noble Lord, that ip.coneequerice of an increased demand, coned by a redutAni ofauty on an amide, the price of it might naturally rise at first, but the result wculd soon be, as had been the case with regard to brandy, that the price or a d ite o r p a p ti o o s i i i te in (L th o o rd sil G k eo d r u g t e ies ß . etilionenlird) no would gradually subside.—(Hear, he ar .) W e ll, t h en , f t e h r e r eNd Noble e t the know whether the Noble Lord had looked very closely into the history of the silk trade ; but it had been so frequently before the House that he did not now think it necessary to go back to the year 1823, and trace the quadrupling of the manufacture resulting from the re duction of the duties. It was, however, a curious thing, that although the exports generally had fallen off in the course of the last year, silk goods were the only articles in which there had been an increase. In 1846, the exports had amounted in value to 729,0001., and in 1847 it was 8 90,0001.—(1.1ear, hear.) The exports to France in the last year, in that very article of silk manufacture of which the Noble Lord complained, had increased so much that that country was now the second largest customer we had in the world for silk manufacture.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord seemed to be anxious to reimpose the duty on cotton, on the ground that that would give us a revenue, while it would only decrease so much more the profits of the foreign grower. But he would ask the Members who joined in this opinion if they were aware of the competition which existed at the present moment be tween this country and the United States in cotton goods? He would ask if they were aware that in China, and even in some of our own colonies, the Americans competed so successfully with us, that they threatened to drive our manufactures out of the market. These were facts which, however, could not be denied; and if our manufactures had a duty of only id. in the lb. to pay on an article worth only 3d. or 4d., that would make an important addition to the difficulties under which they laboured to maintain their ground against the American manufacturers, who would suffer from no such additional outlay.—(Hear, hear.) But he would put it to the House whether the c ointry had really any reason to regret the adoption of th e new policy as far as regarded finance and commerce. The policy of 1842, he asserted, had been perfectly successful. —(Cri:s of " Oh, oh")—and it had enriched the people of this country more than twenty times the amount of income-tax which they had paid.—(Renewed cries of " Oh, oh," and ironical cheers.) When he looked at the commercial prostration we had suffered and the peculiar state of neighbouring countries, he rejoiced to see that confidence still remained between the ruling and the ruled classes in this country.—(Hear.) It presented to his mind the most gratifying reflection that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) had had the wisdom to make concessions in time, and not wait until they were forced open him. (Cheers from the Ministerial • benches.) He! believed that the country owed a debt of gratitude to those Ministers who had sacrificed their own personal feelings, their interests, and that which , would have still greater weight, the friendships of many years' standing, to carry out a policy which they be lieved,conecientionsly, was the true one, and that most calculated to maintain the permanent interests of their country.—(Cheers from V."O Ministerial benches.) Having glanced at this part of the subject, he would now go to the question more immediately before the , House. The real question to be decided, apart from minor considerations, was. whether /d e wy were to con tinue in that pollee , in which the'ountry had already prospered ?—(Cries of " Oh," and " Hear, hear.") He thought he might truly say the country had prospered under this policy, for, supposing that they had had, in addition to their own failing trade, a falling off in the trade with the United States and with Russia, instead of an increase, the condition of the country would have been undoubtedly much worse.—(lronical cheers.) He repeated, then, that comparatively we had prospered, both in finance and in commerce. The question then was, whether we should persevere in this tax, or re vert to the old system of Customs and Excise to make the income meet the expenditure ? The Noble Lord, in bringing forward the budget the other night, said, that on the sth of January, the decrease in the re venue was 2,200,0001., and that the decrease on the last quarter was 1,100,0001. ; but he (Mr. Wilson) thought that, considering the circumstances under which the country was placed, that was no more than we had a right to expect. This, however, was not entirely a novel state of affairs, for in the last quarter of 1841 there was a deficiency of 700,000/. in the Excise duties alone; and that was a period when they had protection, and the sliding-scale was in full operation, and in which the harvest was not nearly so bad as last year, as he had shown by the greater quantity required to make it good. —(Hear, hear.) Leaving out the Kafir war and navy excess, the amount of estimated deficiency for the coming year was about 2,000,000 L, to meet which it appeared to him there were three courses open to the House to pursue.—(Laughter.) The first was to borrow the money and increase the funded debt; but he was happy to see that the sentiments both of the House and of the country were against increasing the funded debt during a period of peace.—(Cheers.) The next thing to be considered was, whether they could re duce the expenditure.—(llear, hear.) He had looked carefully into the expenditure, and though lie did not pretend to be deeply conversant with the details, he was confident that those who had prepared the esti mates had done everything, as far as their ability went and their duty to their country would allow, to keep the expenditure as low as the policy the House on former occasions had sanctioned would permit them. These estimates had been prepared, not with reference to a policy about to bo pursued by the Ministers, but in accordance with a policy which had received the sanction of the House, and therefore the Ministers were not wholly responsible. The House might take upon itself that responsibility which arose fairly from a policy they had sanctioned, and which had commenced previously to the Government taking office.—(Cheers from the Minis terial benches.) He was not prepared to say that some reductions could not be made on the estimates, and that he thought was a question fairly for the Committee to which they had been referred. He must also say that he strongly Ojected to the course the Government had pursued 1 f reference to these estimates. It was not consistent with the dignity of the Government, or of that House, that the former should bring down specific estimates and ask for them to bo referred to a Committee.—(Great cheers.) He could have understood it had the Government come down on the first day of the session and proposed the appointment of a Committee to inquire generally into the expenditure and income of the country. He thought the present course a far more difficult thing, and con trol to all precedent, to refer specific estimates to any Committee whatever.—(Cheers.) He looked with a degree of apprehension at the consequences which might result from this unusual course. He held it to be one of the most exclusive duties of the Executive to prepare the estimates; they knew better than any other party possibly could do what were the circumstances of the country, and if they were thus to throw the responsibi lity off their own shoulders, a degree of laxity i n th e preparation of the estimates would be introduced, and a system highly prejudicial to the interests of the country engendered.—(Cheers.) He hoped the House would sot its face against this being drawn into a precedent; as the best guarantee for carefully prepared esti mates was, that a feeling of responsibility for them should attach to the Governmene—(Cheers.) For his own part he should not, and he believed tie country would not, have a grain more confidence in the estimates when they came from the Committee than now.— (Cheers and laughter.) With regard to the expendi ture, he did not think there was much chance of reduc ing the expenditure of this year. He believed the new policy was so fixed that it was not now possible or de sirable that the great works now in hand should be left unfinished and to go to wreck and ruile—(Hear, hear.) It was a serious thing to talk day of new British of a reduction of expendi• tore. He heard almost every was small to what it was now; and he looked upon th is ra p id in creas e pos sessions springing up in all parts of th e world. In 1834 the extent of our foreign possessions of our foreign possessions as something appalling. It was quite true that our increased, and trade hadncreased, and that we had; made new markets; but lookin g at it in a commercial point of view only, he doubted whether they paid for their own expenditure.— world, dropping a handful of Englishmen on every bar (Cheers.) If they were thus to go over the whole ren spot, any reduction of expenditure was hopeless. Why were they not content with their original popu- , MA RC Ft ll , lB4B. lous and prosperous possessions in the West Indies, in r• s, ee • toe) , t»“ my-three pi:tette to ttie rtriere trifle ! It tiley wi re thus to go in sear ell of posses:.ii,na and make 'go vernors and deputy-governors, and send out ships to protect them, in obedience to the mania of the public out of doors with reference to extending our territories, how could they call upon the Government to reduce the ex penditure ? The other day he saw in a Singapore news paper a memorial to be seat to the mother country to fit out additional ships to protect them from pirates. The same sort of thing came from Penang, and was continu ally coining from elsewhere,—(Hear, heir.) If the com mercial world must continue thus to extend their mar kets, it was ridiculous to talk of cutting down the ex penditure and leaving them delenceless.—(lleer, hear.) He would, therefore, say to those Hon. Gentlemen who talked of economy, "let U 3 begin with the system which' occasions the profusion—let us go to the foun dation of the expenditure."—(Oh, eh.) They could not then look to a reduction of expenditure this year. Hon. Gentlemen might look, year after year, with un easiness on the increasing amount of our annual expen diture, and he confessed th a t he s h are d th a t uneas i ness; but there were a variety of circumstances to account for it, and it was more consistent with the dignity of the House to look to the whole system, rather than to complain of the Government having paid that which public opinion and the recorded opinions of that House had forced upon them. As he could not delude his mind with the ides of a reduction to meet such a vast defi ciency; and that to commence the financial year without some prospect of fully meeting the probable expenditure was a course of infinite peril, and one which he could neither sanction by his vote, nor by his speech, parti cularly with such elements around them; the question again recurred, " What were they to do?" The only thing left was, that which the Government proposed in the first instance. It might be unpopular; but he believed that the country was wrong, that the House was wrong, and that the Government were right.— (Ministerial cheers.) He believed, also, that in less than two years the House and the country would have cause to regret having interposed between the proposition of the Government and its being carried. He repudiated any connexion or communication with the Government; but, looking et the question dispassionately in all its bearings, he did not see any other mode by which the present emergency could be met. Suppose the proposal of the Noble Lord opposite again to revert to the Cus tems were considered, did the Noble Lord believe that, in the present depressed state of the country, the impo sition of duties which would increase that depression, would not be resisted by the commercial part of the community? This was not a question of protection, but of revenue.—(Hear, hear.) Suppose they were to in. crease the sugar duties ; well, thet would in effect fall upon oar own colonial produce, and would that be borne in the present state of the West Indies ? Such a proposition was not possible in the present state of public mind. Would they, thin, impose Excise duties? There was no class of duties more vexatious, unjust, or inquisitorial ; and it was clearly, therefore, impossible to re .impose either Customs or Excise duties. There was, then, nothing to fall back upon hut direct taxation. Every tax, in some shape or another, was an income-tax. It was contrary to every sound principle to tax capital. The annual expenses of the country, as of individuals, must be derived from income and not from capital. The one great objection he had to the probate duty—and that was a good reason why it should not be extended to real property—was, that it was a tax upon capital. All taxes, then, being derived from income, the question was res o lved into one o f mo d e —whether thei revenue should be raised from income, and paid as a tax, on articles of consumption, or in a direct sum paid at stated p Hods to the tax-gatherer. The income-tax, in his opinion, was open to less objec• tion than any other kind of tax. In the first place, there was the whole machinery of collection in full opera tion ; next, the public mind was in some degree re comciled to direct taxation.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," from all sides of the House.) He could only say that, if the people were dissatisfied with it, Ho nourable Members themselves were greatly to blame. Some of his friends around him had unwittingly aided in the creation of a feeling against a principle they had all their lives advocated.—(Hear, hear.) The income tax was said to be odious, and inquisitorial, and he (Mr. Wilson) was very much of that opinion himself in 1842, the tax having a sort of historical character of that na ture. But he would put it to the House whether they had not been disappointed as to the extent to which it had answered this description?—(Loud cries of "No, Tin.") Well, he had heard very few objections to the mode in which it was collected. He was quite sure, taking the three taxes together, the excise duty, the property, and the income-tax, the latter was the least vexatious and odious. The other night an Hon. Member had referred to the objection raised against this tax in 1842 by Lord John Russell, but a more futile objection than that was never heard. The Noble Lord said that it would with draw a portion of the funds designed to employ labour; but was there any tax whatever which did not do that ? That objection affected the amount not the character of the tax.—(Hear, hear.) What tax was there that withdrew so little from that fund as the income-tax? If they took the Customs duties, that not only withdrew a portion of the amount, but it interfered with trade, commerce, and manufactures, and impeded the progress of industry in finitely more than payments made by a person from his income. —(Hear, hear.) Another objection was, that it was a war tax, but that was a mete matter of opinion. A war tax meant that a larger revenue was required in war than in peace, and what difference did it make to the country how the extra millions were raised, it they must be raised, provided they were levied in the least onerous way possible. Another objection, and one of the most important, was, its ineqaality.—(Loud cheers.) Nothing, however, that he had yet heard had persuaded him that an attempt might not be made successfully to reduce that inequality. —(Cheers.) He listened the other night with great interest to the speech of the Honourable Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Horsman). and was sorry that a mere accident prevented his being in the House to vote for the Honourable Member's motion. But what surprised him was, the argument of the Right Honourable Gentleman the ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Goulburre) The Right Hon. Gentleman started by saying that all taxes were unequal, and he laid down a general proposi tion that no tax could be made equal. He (Mr. Wilson) was ready to admit that, mathematically speaking, that could not be done, but, in the words of Mr. Pitt, " there was no reason that we should not do what we can to make it as equal as possible."—(Loud cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman as an examp!o quoted the land tax which was said to be monstrously unequal. Did the Right Hon. Gentleman know that the tax originally was fixed at an equal sum, and that its inequality had arisen since from the greater improvements of some lands than others. It arose, in fact, out of the wisest law ever enacted, and was made equal solely to prevent impedi ments being thrown in the way of improving the land. It was on that principle that it was now sought to fix an annual land tax in India, because the uncertainty of the present system prevented improvements being under taken. The Right Honourable Gentleman had re ferred to the local burdens borne by the land, but it was absurd to say that they should be put into com petition with a general tax. The Right lion. Gentle man had compared the cages of a landed proprietor with 5,000/. a year and a physician with a like income; and he said that if the latter fell to 4,000/. he could claim the difference in the tax. Surely, he did not mean to say that the landlord had not the same right.—(Hear, hear.) The tenant now paid the tax, and if the rent was less, the tax was also reduced. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also referred to Mr. Pitt coming down to the:House, and allowing that Mr. Addington's proposi tion to touch the funds was a breach of public faith. He (Mr. Wilson) had carefully read Mr. Pitt's speeches in 1789, when the income-tax was first proposed, and he had not found a single passage which denied the justice of taxing funded property.—(Hear, hear.) But the proposition of the Hon. Member for Cockermouth classed funded with other property, and did not purpose to tax it more than other property. The ex• Chancellor had also said there was no deduction for repairs on real pro. perty. True; but at the same time there was no deduc tion allowed for repairs in cotton mills, or for the depre ciation of the machinery, which amounted in a large mill to 2,0001. a year.—(Hear, hear.) But with regard to all the inequalities which existed in taxation, it was quite clear that in course of time they had become adjusted. They were at first unequal, but they were not so now. He should be told that if they were adjusted by time the income-tax would become so adjusted. He was quite ready to admit that. The ex-Member for Kendal (Mr. Warburton) used to say that tho property-tax would be an equal tax if it had been permanent; but if it were temporary, it would be unequal; but he should have added that time must be allowed for its self-adjustment; though he (Mr. Wilson) did not mean to say that fifty years would be sufficient in this case. But now with re gard to property; how could that be effected ? Take, for:instance, a terminable annuity. No person could complain if he purchased that, knowing that it was sub ject to the payment of a tax; but if, immediately after he had bought it in no such expectation, the tax came in, then he would have a right to complain.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had adduced an argument the other evening, which, by a curious coincidence,he (Mr. Wilson) had put upon his notes in order to urge it in maintenance of an opposite view. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that it was simply a question of income, and that inasmuch as the income tax was a substitute for Customs duties, and that inasmuch as there was no scale in Customs duties, those duties being charged without reference to the income of the consumer, that consequently a tax upon income ought to be levied. Now it was somewhat singular that he was about to use the same argument, but in a directly opposite manner, for he found that in Customs duties the receiver of income had the choice as to the quan tity he would consume, whereas nobody could contend that Customs duties were paid on savings of income or on premiums on life policies. This was one of the grounds which he considered served to exhibit the in equality of the tax. The principle of exempting savin gs had been recognised by Mr. Pitt in 1798, for he exempted persons with large families and deducted the amount paid for life policies of insurance, on the ground that they were savings of capital, arid not expen ditures on account of income. —(Hear, hear.) He had not heard a single argument adduced calculated to alter his opinion, as to the inequality of the tax, or as to the possibility of rendering it more equal. He admitted that it would be a task of great difficulty to devise a scheme for the equalisation of the tax; bus; unquestionably the attempt ought to be m a d e , in order that there might be something like an approximation to equality.—(Hear, hear.) The opinion that some more equitable adjust naent might be made had taken possession of the mind of the country, and there was a strong feeling abroad that the finances of the country ought not to be hazarded al together by refusing to make an attempt at such adjust ment. Having stated the various objections that existed to the income-tax, he had now a few observations to offer on the state of the national finances and on the prospects of the coming year.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the - i e., e n : ; • • ing the inee me - tax. rili) , 11:1' Z 1.3 whit the country he might be pesmitted to doubt i7s policy and its wisdom, and to express his apprehen sion that, before the expiration of two years, the country would have to regret its determinatiote As, however, the proposition had been withdrawn, the ques tint! for consideration now was, what arrangeeient was to be made about the 3.300,000/. ?---(Hear, hear.) This was a grave question for consideration. There was a deficiency of 1,300,000/., which the tthancellor of the Exchequer proposed to pay by charging them on the ba lance in the Exchequer. In the nfonth of January last the Right lion. Gentleman stated that the balance in tile Exchequer was 8,000,000/ ; but it should be remembered that the statement was made on the sth of Januery, and that, in seven days after-yards. 7,200,000/. wits to be drawn out of the Exchequer. The sum of 8,000,0001. was only the provision available for the forthcoming divideeds, and due for the other expenses of the quarter, and, therefore, the real balance in the Exchequer, after payment of those liabilities was 882,000/., whilst only 1,000,000/. was applicahle for the purpose; of Ireland. Thus it would appear that in January, instead of having a balance, there was, in point of fact, a de ficiency of 200,0001.—(Hear, hear)—and if the ac counts were to be carried on to April, there would be a still greater di-ticiency. It was only getting rid of 1,300,000/. What, then, was to be done ? There were but two courses open for adoption—either to fall back on the balance or to propose new taxes. Ile could not see that they were in a better position when they had a deficiency of 2,000,0001. which roust be made up by some tax or other, unless, indeed, they were to consent to add still more to the funded debt. It was, he considered, exceedingly dangerous to enter upon the consideration of a budget without knowing from what source the deficiency was to be made up.—(Hcar, hear.) With regard to the question before the House, they were called upon to consider, now that the two per cent. had been given up, whether the three per cent. should be granted for one year or for three years. Ile Noble Lord opposite (Lord George Bentinek) had stated his intention to resist the imposition for more than one year, but his policy was to increase indirect taxation, and thereby make up the deficiency in the national revenue. In the adoption of that policy, involving as it would the abandonment of the great and newly' tried principle of commercial legislation, he could not agree. If that principle were not to be carried out the policy of the Noble Lord and the Gentlemen at the other side of the House who agreed in his views would be perfectly intelligible, but if the great principle which the House had so lately sanc tioned were to be carried out, then it was impossible to understand the policy of lion. Gentlemen, who, approv ing of that principle, were prepared to vote against a continuance of the Menu:le:tax for more than one yesr. —(Hear, hear.) How was it possible that Government could apply themselves to remedy commercial or fiscal difficulties if they' had a 'deficiency of 2,000,000/.? — (Hear, hear.) They must remember that on the Ist of February, 1849, the present duties levied on foreign corn would cease. Would the House consent to renew these duties. He did not think it would; but be did think that, if the present proposition were adopted, much would be done to endanger the fulfilment of the anticipations of those who expected the best results from the introduction of the new principle of commer cial policy. It was on these grounds he would vote tor a continuation of the tax for three years, and when in Committee he would gladly listen to any proposition to remove the inequalities which existed.— (Hear, hear.) But if those inequalities could not be removed, he would not, on that account, endanger the passing. of the . Bill, much as he objected to the inequali ties. There appeared to be a great desire on the part of the country to-obtain reductions of duty on many anti. ides of general consumption. A great movement had been got up in several commercial towns for reductions in the duties levied on tea, tobacco, and other articles of Excise; but how could the country expect that the Go• vernrnent could consistently listen to such representa tions? They might receive deputations, and hold out hopes that, in the course of the next year, they could do something towards reduction; but if the entire basis of Their anancial measures were made uncertain, it a ould be impossible to look forward with any degree of hope to the reduction of those taxes.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore it was, he thought, that the large constituencies of Liverpool, Manchester, and London, who had been loudest in demanding reforms—and certainly they were fully justified in being loudest, as they had a larger interest at stake, and were most affected—were incon sisteet in their demands when they called upon Govern ment to do that which would obstruct the carrying out of their own views for the repeal of the taxes against the infliction of which they complained.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the prospects of the coming year, he confessed that he looked with anxiety to the condition of the commercial interests. He had looked around him upon all sides, and he could not see the slightest indication of anything like a permanent revival of trade.—(Hear, hear.) He looked at the United States of America, and a crisis appeared to have set in there which held forth little promise that our export trade would exceed that of former years. lie next turned to the continent of Europe, and when he looked at the unsettled state of political and commercial credit, and the numerous fails res .of banking establishments, he could not indulge the hope of revival. He then turned his attention to our own territories in the East and to the depressed Mato of our colonial possessions—but there ho could not see any indications of revival.— (Hear, hear.) If there was no prospect of revival in our foreign and colonial trade, there could not be any revival at home, for our native industry was so depen dent on our export trade that if it failed there would be much ground for increased evils at home. Upon this account they would not be justified in starting with a deficiency. It might be said out of doors, and by Hon. Members in the House, " if such is your opinion with regard to the commerce of the country, is this the time for imposing a new tax 2" That was all very well, but how were they to escape. the dilemma ?—(Hear, hear.) Would they support the credit of the country at all hazards ; or woulti they not ? If' they were prepared to support the credit of the country at all, it was idle to say that, because the country was in a bad state, it could not meet the necessary expenditure. A portion of the income-tax was laid upon real property, but with regard to incomes derivable from trade and commerce, if trade - turned out to be had the incomes, of course, became smaller, and the tax to be paid proportionately less. It should also be borne in mind that a large portion of the tax was derived from land, and that land had increased in value by the exist ence of those very evils which had depressed all other descriptions of property. The produce of land had risen in value, notwithstanding the immense amount of foreign importations, and the prices of grain , had been main tained higher during .the late years than for many pre vious ones He believed that there was no class in the country whose interest it was not to make the income of the country equal to its expenditure. Consider how closely allied public and private credit was. Let them remember that if the breath of discredit was cast upon the public faith, it would render that which represented the funded debt tumegotiable, and would thereby occa sion large demands to be made upon the money on which the public trade was supported. The consequence of such discredit would be to occasion a panic far worse than that of 1847, and to lead to results more dangerous to the prosperity of the country than th e a ddi t i on o f two per cent. to the income-tax. Holding those opinions, he would vote that the tax be retained for three years, and in doing so he considered he was pursuing that course which would be most beneficial to all classes of the country, and, above all, to those engaged in the com merce and in the industry of the country .—(lltiar.) Mr. J. B. SMITH was in favour of a proterty-tax, but would nevertheless support the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose. lie objected to the inequality and injustice of the income. tax. It was complained of in every community. A manufacturer who had lost money during the year ma d e no return; t h e Com missioners assessed him 6,000/.; he appealed, and it was reduced to 3,000/ ; he told the Commissioners he had suffered a positive loss, but their answer was— " Will you have it 3,000/. or 6,000/.2" He had no remedy, and was compelled to pay on an assessment of 3,000/. Was this justice?—(hear, hear.) And be it remembered, there was no appeal from the decision of the Commissioners. In 1835 the army, navy, ordnance, and miscellaneous expenditure was 14} millions ; this year these estimates amounted to 23 millions. This required looking into. (Hear, hear.) As a young Member of the House he had been appalled by the dis parity between the estimate for the new Houses and the actual expenditure. The responsibility was shifted from one Minister to another, and no one knew where it rested. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had at length acknowledged that some controlling body was necessary. Could it be wondered, after this, that the national resources were lavished? So far from agreeing with the Hon. Member for Westbury, that the income ought to be brought up to the expenditure, he r would pursue an opposite course; and by that means h9-had no doubt nine or ten millions might be saved; and this would allow of the remission of tuxes on tea, tobacco, and many other articles. Looking at the state of Europe, he saw no prospect of an improvement in our resources ; lie feared the Chancellor of the Exchequer had over estimated the probable revenue. He would vote for the motion of the lion. Member for Montrose, in the hope that before another year means would b e di scovere d to reduce our expenditure. It was hi g h ti me t h at our im mense war establishment was curtailed. It was also an important question whether we should continue to retain some of our more expensive colonies. In Canada, for Instance, three parties were contesting as to the form of government. The co l ony was we ll able to govern itself, why then not take a piternal leave of it?—(Hear, hear.) The competition which now met us on the continent was au important consideration ; everywhere railroads and manufactures were extending, and the advantages which England had hitherto possessed over all other nation , were fast disappearing. In the United States the growth of cotton was only 430,000 bags in 1820 ; in 1847 their consumption was 437,000, being as much as Great Britain consumed in the former year. The extraordinary resources of the United States, including an abundance of coal, its rapid increase of capital and population, were matters which oueht to be well weighed. In 1820, Pennsylvania only produced 365,00 . 0 tons ; in 1841 the production was 816,000 tons ; in 1847 it had increased to 3,000,000 tons, stimulated as it had been by the opening of the railway to Philadelphia. This was the most extraordinary increase ever known. All these were reasons why we should husband our re sources, whereby we might be in a better condition to grapple with future difficulties. Sir W. MOLESWORTH did not think it necessary, after the speech of the lion. Member for Westbury, to defend the free-trade policy. So tar from this polioy being the cause of our embarrassments, it was clearly traceable to the increased . expenditure, whi c h had aug mented with fearful rapidity since 1835. It was they lower than it had been since 1820. Notwithstanding ten millions of taxes bad been repealed since 1833, the ' revenue hid inerees(d front forte-six *pi ' - iteei .. , ; e,ce. reeee:eeiy, toe eietaeleZl, ieet ineraae.d frem 44 4-130,0eei. in 1833 to 54.300,0(.! in 1847.—(Hear, hear.) This increase was double t! amount of the income. tax, two millions more than IP_ hole ponr.rate, and sir ti mes th e amoun t of the wind.oa: , duty.—(Bear, hear.) From 1835 to 1347 there badb r f , eit increase of 10,400,0001. in th e e r m y, nave, ordna n ; and miseellare;oui expenditure ; and of this inure: 7,000 0001. was spent on the three first departmentl_, . (their, hear.) Last year the expenditure on these t i n ,erviees was 18,500,0001., being four millions more w e "" in any other year since the p eace , h o wever great .5 &Leger in which the country h a d b een placed. p e n es , execeded by three millions t he expenditure during tu three eventinl years in which t he Duke of Welli n g to v o as Mini ter, during which ti m e there occurred .0d French and Belgian revolutions. From that period there had been a decrease until 1835, when the ea diture for the three services did nut exceed 11,70 0 , Last year the expenditure for the same three ssey id. was 18,500,0001.; and a further increase was threate e .fi —(llear, hear.) There had been a steady i.nc li es e . since 1835, at the rate of 583,000/. a year; this ' the increase, including the 130,0(0/. for the al oe would be 750,000/.—(Hear, h e a r .) I n seven years 4 ead been en excess of expenditure over income rag . " from 300,000/. to 3,000,0001. h a d it not b ee n for 0 increase in the war exp e ndit ure , t h ere m i g ht have I L an excess of income over exp en dit ure o f f ro m 40 0, 7„, 0 to 4,000,0001.; and in th e pr e s e nt y ear , that would have been so great as to allow of the remissiel l ,. the tea duties, or some other impo s t p ress ing on w, industrial classes.—(Hear, hear.) Why should our ex penditure so largely exceed what it bad been in hind of difficulty and danger, wh e n we were interfering 4 ,' Syria, in Turkey, and elsewh e r e ? Why s hould it " h 1 greater than it was in the last y ea r i n w hi c h the bold Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had office? What had we to fear? Were we afraid of ti: Pope, or had we been af ra id o f L ou i s Philippe? , (Hear, hear, and laughter.) In th e l a st two year there had been a defalcation of nearly 6,000, 000 ,7 adding to the surplus of 3,500,0001., w hi c h e xisted is January, 1846, to the deficiency which b a d eccurred .i the past year. It was said that this was attr ib u t a ble 7 the commercial embarrassments of th e country ; . . this he denied ; for how could that cause convert positive surplus into a deficiency?—(Hear.) The true cause was to be found in the increase of our wench . ture on the three services. Why s hould th a t expend ture exceed the average of the five years in which 1. 1 1 Right Hon. Baronet the Member f o r T amwo rth he' held office, when it was 14,700,000/.? Now, it W e s t 17,968,0001., exclusive of th e 150,0001. p ro p ose d for te' militia ; showing an increase of 3,268,000/. ; and fu r what?—(Bear.) Let, this expenditure be reduFed the same amount as it was in 1846 j and instead of * deficiency at the present moment, there would be a s positive surplus.—(Hear, hear.) It was alleged tb ul e the increase in our naval armaments had been rendere" necessary by a similar increase on the part of Brand er He admitted there had be e n s uch i ncreas e ; but the ( country which was the first t o p ause i n s u c h a race (1 % extravagance would be the wise s t.—(H e ar, hearl fought not this country to be the first to cry halt There were two reasons why we should do so : tb far greater strength of oa r nav y b e y on d that of France, and our commercial supremacy.—(Hear, beer.) So long as this country retained her commercial sePr e macy, France would in vain seek to d e pri ve her of he t maritime superiority. All history sho we d th e truth,v ( this principle—it had been th e case with Holland, with ; Venice, and other nations. Instead of augmenting be: navy, it would be a much wiser course fur France .i" encenrage her commercial marine by doing away Wlt e ti absurd restrictions. Our commerce with France he, greatly augmented of late years, and she was now one os our beet customers. From 1830 to 1845 the trade be' tweet) the two countries had increased sixfold—in 18 50 our exports to France amount e d only to 450,0001. ; , 1815 they had increased t o 2,791,0001. France bong , " more from this country than she did from any other' and she sold more to it than to any other.—(Hear, WY .) Hence it was the pecuniary interest and the best pehei of the two countries to preserve peace, and to be friend . ' and allies.—(Cheers.) Every Englishman must re joice at the downfal of tyranny in France, and eitle' , hope that the eff o rts o f t h e F renc h peop l e f or sec uring their liberty might be attended with success.—(Hea r ' hear.) He would nowiinquire what reduction oe uld he made in the three services, without detriment to th o public interest. Three reasons had been assigned by the Right Hon. the Secretary at War for the enortutat e increase in the navy; the former mismanagement of the dockyards, the introduction of steam-vessels into th° navy, and the cost of the packet service. The increase had been—for new works, 600,0001.; naval stoles 1,100,000/; packet eervice, 600,000/4 in all, 2,300,000 L But the increase in the naval estimates amounted tO 3,500,0001., so that 1,200,0001. was unaccounted for. This would be found attributable to the vast increase is the force of the navy. In 1835 there had been voted 26,500 men; in 1847, 43,000 men, being an increase ° l, 16,500, at an increased cost in wages and victuals alone . of 800,0001. For what purpose had this increase bet* made? The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tad' worth had said it was necessary fur the protection 01 our commerce scattered over the face of the globe. But for that it did not require that 16 men of war, carryleir 750 guns, and manned by 8,000 hands, should be ea , tinned in the Tagus, as was the ease in September last. Nor did we require for this purpose fleets on the coasts of Spain, of Africa, and of South America. . All that was required was a few frigates or sloops of was wandering about the ocean. In this respect vet might take an example from the United States of America, whose commerce most nearly equalled our own; for wherever an English merchant was found to be buying or selling in any quarter of the globe, there , was an American trader to be found.—(Hear, her.) lii 1841 the United States, in addition to the small squadron which they were obliged to keep off the coast of Africa by treaty with us, had only one frigate and one sloop it! Mexico; two frigates and two sloops on the Brazil station; a frigate, a sloop, and a brig in China; and the same on the New Zealand station; one wandering round the world; and one, the only one in commission, carry* ing their Minister to China. The cost of the whole of the United States' navy in 1845 was 1,200,0001. just one-sixth of ours, and they paid their seamen much better than wo did.—(Hear, hear.) It was therefore absurd to say that we required this enormous expen diture to protect our commerce. Our army was said to be necessary to protect our col o ni e s. La s t year the number of effective f o rc e s in th e colonies wa5 35,792 men; in 1835 it h a d b een 31,350 ; an increase of only 4,442. But with th e co l on i es p ro p er ly go verned, and with the Colonial-office reformed, We might do with a much smaller number—say, one half the amount, to garrison such places as Malt* Gibraltar, and Quebec. But the increase in the colonies did riot account for the great increase of expenditure. from 6,150,000/. in 1835 to 7,168,0001, in the present year. But look at h ome — t h e e ffe ct i ve f orce i n t he United Kingdom, in 1845, was 34,489 men; on the 151 of January last, it was 64,204, being an increase of 30,000, or more than 95 per cent. This number was 20,000 more than we had in the worst times of Sidmouth aid Castlereagh.—(llcar, hear.) Since that time the increased facilities for transmitting troops by railway had greatly increased the efficiency of any existing force. We had also a well-organized police in all our largo towns. Far better would it be to expend this suns in educating the people, removing the sources of crime, and increasing the comforts of the poor.—(Cheers.) The cost of these 30,000 men, including officers, could not be less than 3,200,000/. a year, and thus a reduction of three millions in the expenditure might be effected by reducing the army to the same scale as it was on during the Ministry of the Right Honourable Baronet the Member fur Tamworth.—(Hear, hear.) This would not be an extravagant reduction, for the service would be quite as efficient as it was then, or more so; and it would at once give a surplus of income over expenditure. Under the plea of maintaining the power and protectieg the commerce of the country, it had been the policy of both Wbig and Tory Govern ments to interfere in every conflict, to meddle with the internal affairs of every nation, and seize every opportx nity of extending our vast colonial empire. Look at the history of this country for the last ten or fifteen years. We had commenced by sending our buccaneers to Por tugal; then we sent legion, to Spain, to maintain the rights of the virtuous Christina, while others fought with equal zeal in the cause of Doti Carlos.—(Hear.) Then wo interfered in Syria. Meanwhile we contrived. by mismanagement, to stir up rebellion amongst the peaceable inhabitants of Canada; then we drove forth into exile 3,000 boers at the Cape of Goud Hope, and it was now found that we had lavisheden million .on the Kafir war.—(Hear.) In the menu time we had ex tended our empire by laying claim to the whole of Aus tralia, a territory nearly as large as Europe itself; then we had declared ourselves the sovereigns of the two is • - lands of New Zealand, and sent them a foolish governor and an incendiary bishop.—(Hear, hear.) Then we had . rushed into central Asia, invadtd the hunting.- L . :rounds of the Ameers of Siude, induced the Sellchs to cross their frontier, and then de stroyed their army.—(Hear, hear, and " No.") Then we had ravaged the coasts of China, and levied con tributions from them because they refused to receive our poisonous opium.—(Hear.) Labuan and Hong- Kong were our latest acquisitions ; we had an itching for Borneo ; and, if the advice of the Noble Lord the member for Lynn were followed, we should be running a tilt with Spain with the island of Cuba.—(Cheers and laughter.) These were at once the causes and the con sequences of our vast war expenditure ; for the two stood to each other in the relation of cause and effect alternately. The establishments begot the exploits, and' they required the establishments. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had said that these exploits were popular with the service. That was easy to believe ; hut were they popular with the people of England ?-- (Hear.) If so there was no remedy; we must pay for them, and pay dearly. Thu objection that the income tax was a war tax was perfectly valid ; it had been, and still would be a war tax ; every farthing of it had been expanded in these petty wars.—(Hear, hear.) The increase in the expenditure of the three services since 1835 had been upwards of seven millions—more than the whole of the income-tax—and hence the deficit.— (Hear, hear.) Our commercial embarrassments had been clearly brought about by our vast and unneces sary expenditure o n th e nav y, arm y, an d or d nance . It these were reduced, in a short period we should have a surplus of income. If the country would not consent to that reduction, the only alternative was in creased taxation. This year there was a deficit. To go on year atter year with a deficit was contrary to every sound principle of finance, which prescribed that i n a country like this, not only should the income be fully equal to the ordinary annual expenditure, but should exceed it by some two or three millions a year, so as to meet unforeseen emergencies. The enly alternative for the consideration of Parliament and the country was a reduction of expenditure or an increase of taxation. In supporting the former he should not be inconsistent in voting for the motion of the Hon. Member fQr Montrose,