The Sun. — London, England, 1835-08-05 00:00:00

1 benches.) c. I, how- , rior—rnark, cheering)--- Ls you think side of the 'oble Friend Lord as to s .r the Noble )pinion. He situation-- nd Learned ;count ? He seemed to lirectly con mdinary po ) were they d had fallen h he did not d misunder 1. His ad to-morrow, t at the bar, them, they • afterwards le Friend in heard. He ,ar on behalf !sist hearing ere opening - e now esta ld hereafter mar counsel they would the hearing 1835. ong, before ons who be ks must be vents, there fore idle to r the state , of course, contents ot responsibt , ask if there nvn coming could be de ;rovrn itself, of Haver ,he name of n this pur )s ; he as a aint against theless, had n the same , of course, ecessity for I provoking what course . d, who took Lordships' Noble Vis oppressed, igs.—( The ritence with loud cheers .r from the the House at Yarmouth Pore the Cool im, had been order of the individual 41- permission • to if the house• had no right WI criminat e :fleas himscif- • of Common ces, he hoped the law, and_ to considera manding and as they had of the ire^ r Parl iament. member fof nent of the ngerous Are ns on eve= l to judge " th the Court• he house that Inetnter wag. ion had onll be postponed oved for the ned. well the evil ort of COM' d ever erns' t proceeding :o disreput e ' t tribunal, in legree of de' He n'sJ e time of th at ye of no b e ' 1, the ?wo e confusion._ lotion on the inquiry. d ben made that no boil• of the C°lll. ed. lon. Meinbe ibute a 1/ 04 plaints wera ulain tradeP furnishing of the bills sc . ' e u pon th' riven to the Icily, which tary of Stat e, Aished. n his place► espect to tbo Icluded wit h aving wou ld (Cheers.) iliould I 3 ladies into .e ordered 0 :!ommittes s of the 24 er a state" edly pu b " r bolotiel ur showe d , and that ught to be :hat 31 0 . K ved all tbs."' ess, a yer- and o ici repeatedlY in act at. RISC San ' • bed lry VriS and 311' subjee t f th e i o n o v ittee ands t heir is thereoti being 41 D f Orang hv c ü bjeet ;ion of to. edinthad line t CI he Gr an lor dioryt nicrn b e r It aP *man ed. ECC3 'e °ra n g: o cui 4 . , r r no • d 4s atNte • tin Ens TEE. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 5, 1835. land well as Well - as in Ireland. He was induced to think that the Government was not aware of the extent to which those associations extended. He thought it impossible that the Gom inander.in-Chief could have noticed such dangerous eombinations, without having taken steps for putting a stop to them, He had endeavoured to ascertain how far such associ ations were inconsistent with civil and military law, and for that purpose he had called for a return, from which he found that any offi cer b e i ng a member of a lodge was li a bl e to dis rimsal, ], so that it was ev id ent t h at t h ey were l oo k e d u p o n asil legal. But it was unnecessary for him to show that those as sociations were in their nature illegal. He would admit that t hey might be innocent in quiet times, but in disturbed times e nd among armed bodies, who might be made the tools of de signing persons, he considered them peculiarly dangerous ; besides which, the military order to which he had alluded s howed th em to b e aga i nst m i l i tary l aw. Th en, as to t h e i r illegality under the civil law, he found that by the 9th clause of the 30th of George the Third, every Society having branch es or corr esponding Societies, or having branch coma certain ra ittees is ill ega l ; an d every mem b er o f suc h soc i et y i s li a bl e to penalties. Thus it appeared that the unfortunate Dorchester labourers were not one-tenth so guilty as some gentlemen of high pretensions whom he could name—and tome of whom were, perhaps, nearly allied to the Crown.— (Bear, hear.) Yet these dlinuents escaped, e while the unfortunate Dorchester laboure e q rs languished in fl exile. Was not this drawing a distinction between the rich and influ ential and the poor and ignorant ? Why should not a prince of the blood or a peer of the realm have the same measure of justice meted out to him as the ignorant, who had not the opportunity of being acquainted with the laws. (Hear, hear.) In 1831, a proclamation was issued by his Majest y ' s Government cautioning persons against joining in Majesty' s as soc i at i ons. This was intended to put down the Trades' Unions. When this proclamation was issued, the Hon. Mem ber for S tafford and the Hon. Member for Warwick severally lor e in their places and asked the Noble Lord, then Chancel of th e Exchequer, whether it was not the intention of the Government to put down those Trades' Unions? He (Mr. l iUme) had sa id et the time that the Government ha d no r i ght to put down those societies, as they were not illegal—they had no oaths of secrecy, or signs or passes to render them so, and, therefore, it was probable that the proclamation was is 2oed rathe r as a warn i ng to the too zea l ous mem b ers o f t h ose bodies not to be guilty of a breach of the law, than for any other purpose. When he recollected the opinions then ex gassed on the opposite side of the House, he could not help Pressing e i his earnest h o p e th a t he should have the assistance 'those H on. G entlemen who had then expresse d t h emse l ves 80 strongly in favour of putting down the Orange Association s s :' (H ear, hear)—th e constitution of which, he had no hesita- Pin in saying, was contrary to law.—( Hear, hear.) The first resolntion he intended to propose, was— _ " That it appears, from the evidence laid before this House, that rere exists at present in Ireland more than fifteen hundred f Orange L s e ( d l r les, some parishes containing as . many as three or un i t- 6 to ri 26o t , ev ees, consisting of members varying in number . in communication and correspondence with . each other, and h .... °1 _,0g secret signs and pass-words as bonds of union, and all de i-ti,Tag on the-Grand Lodge of Ireland." iss' r • Swan stated that there were 1,590 Orange lodges, and 4. Blacker said that there were about 1,600. The latter ygentleman said that th e num b er o f w a rrants at present on the aks W as 1 ,843, but that many of the lodges were now dor -n so that th e present num b er was a b ou t 1,600. Th e greatest number of lodges in any county was 229. In the ' A .° , t ioty of D own, there were 200 lodges ; i n A ntr i tn, 2 29 ; i n a rtn agh, 212; an d a l so upwar d s o f 200 in Tyrone, and about ""e same numer in Ferniaagh ; and in Londonderry there we re 150. In b some of the n southern counties there were no grange lodges, and in others only a few, The population of ! rt nagh was 300 , 0 00, an d i n t h e 212 l o d ges i n i t th ere were ear 21,0 00 Oran gemen . N o one was a d m itted as an Orange 'nth under th e age of 18, and therefore they were generally i n robust health, and they were all armed one way or other. All s l f the m might be called into active service at the will of the .eOuty grand master. On several occasions they had been obey the and reviewed, and every one of them was bound to they . the summons of the deputy grand master. A great portion of the nobility and gentry of the north of Ireland were mhoweref thes e societies. Members of tra d es ' assoc i at i ons, c omparatively innocent, had been severely punished f or offences against laws, of the existence of which they were ignorant. Such a plea, however, did not avail them when h e e .y appeared at the bar. These gentry and magistrates, _ "'ever, could not make such an excuse, for they must be °;iare that they offended against the laws of their country.— knZng ' chat The lower membet s of the Orange lodges, t they had the magistrac to back them, were I , l c) uraged to the commission of the y most serious offences. catehrni.embers of these lodges were an exclusive class, as no one was admitted. There could be little doubt but that these societies drew a line of distinction between the great of th e people of the country and the magistracy, to where they ought to look up for protection ; this led to the Fenlmission of outrages whenever the two parties were brought I :o le f ° e nta et. This was a question which it behoved the House M embers e ula ti i n e ll i e r t .a ee h e uP without delay. He had no hesitation in saying that n ot admitted r in which ihe Orangemen were bound together Ittedsocieties illegal ; and lie was sure that most of the le o ti ion tie of them were fully aware of it. The members were without a religious sanction. The next reso be_ exclusively. e had to propose stated this : it was— bers,eatinadt the Orange Institution of Ireland is unlimited in num tbiusgto long to priy a at P e rotestant Association ; that every member lodge, to which he is admitted under a sanction, and with a religious ceremony, carrying a bible leeret hands, su b mitting to certain forms and declarations, and taught signs and pass -words." mr.'-ne, ceremony was described in the evidence of the Rev. prPe Sullivan, page 48, question 773. It was as follows:- 4 1 ;, applicant shall be introduced between two sponsors, e i eu ely, the brethren who proposed and seconded his admis atoi' e arrYing the Bibl e in his hands with the book of rules, e. regulations laid thereon. Two brethren shall precede hi s at). un his ent er i ng t h e room, a c h ap l a i n , if p resen t, or i n e to i e ' e nce, a brother appointed by the master, shall read the Art thor part of what follow 0 Lord God of our fathers! ki ts(' not God of Heaven s , and rulest not thou over all the ae c t e .Pins of th e heathen, and in thy hand is there not power lii te ' u ght, so that n one are able to withstand thee ? Who is tlotinnto thee the Lord among the Gods ? Who is like thee in t a °llB in holiness, fearful in praises, doing . wonders ? Thou tieettuty mercy hast led forth thy people, which thou into re lyboedThou hest guided them in thy strength into thy tb e , "thitation. Lord, thou wilt ordain peace for us, for 0,3 hast wrought all our works in us. 0 Lord our God wrought Lords have had dominion over us—but by thee te y three make mention of thy name. Wherefore, g,lo ofYee Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God tar Lord _ n the isles of the sea.' During the reading of hretl i the Candidate shall stand at the foot of the table—the tia sto ' e n also standing in their places, and strictly silent.. The thi s shall then say, Friend, what dost thou . desire in 44. meeting of true Orangemen ?' and the candidate shall lion 'wer, s Of in f • - will and accord I desire admis festiLa,t° 'sour loyal institution.' c r t ee tion Who will vouch Master : eh friend gat he is a u trUe . Protestant and loyal subject ?' ' ke l t Sponsors shall bow to the master, and signify the same,. tart. mentioning his own name.) Master—' What do )ou , Ma s Y t in Your hand ?' Candidate—' The word of God. trill te, Under the assurance of these worthy brothers,. we oth er ' b u st that you also carry it in your heart. What is the Reletinaek?' Candidate—' The - book of your rules and rF insta Master—' Under the like assurance, we will vrill er tr ust that y ou w ill stu d y t h em we ll, and that you re eeh a . beY the m i n all lawful matters. Therefore we g l a dl y fri end. , You into this order. Orangemen, bring to me your b h efor e ti„ The c an did ate sha ll then b e b roug h t b y h is sponsors of Ae e master, the t wo b ro th e r s standing at each side tp poi c . e n tre of the table ; during this the chaplain or brother and t ll !ed shall say, Many shall be purified and made whole ried, but the wicked shall do wickedly, and none of the ti e : s ed shall understand, ' but the wise shall understand. Ilunde4iis he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three be, s o and thirty days ; but go thou thy ways until the end da..:! thou shalt rest and stand in the lot at the end of the t hi,Y • The candidate shall then kneel on his right knee, and de.., Inkster shall invest him with the decoration of the or ;.and orange sash. Then the chaplain or brother ap .•l7e"lled shall say, When thus it shall be in the midst of o fi t , land, among the People thou shalt be as the shaking I ,l lr an e olive tree and as the gleaning grapes when the 41 :1? is done. 'They shall lift up their voice, they f sing for the majesty of the Lord; they shall cry aloud t r ern r _ the sea. When the mountain of the house of the 'i l u e e,l shall be established on the top of the mountains, and it tall be exalted above the hills, and the people shall flow into f r o and this sh a ll b e f or a token upon thine hand, and for a t ro n llet between thi ne eyes; f or b y strength of hand the Lord thisught us f ort h nut of Egypt. Thou shalt therefore keep ter ord inance in his season f rom year to year. ' Then the mar- Ra ma al l say, We receiv e th ee , d ear b rother, i nto the reli nriii•e sand loy a l i nst i tution of Orangemen, trusting that thou of on!bide a d evote d servant of God and true believer in his heilus Christ, a f a i t hf u l su bj ect of our King, and supporter !r Constituti on . K eep t h ou fi rm i n the Protestant Church, tenuing steadily her pure doctrines, and observing her ordi ene,? • Make th yse lf t h e f r i en d of all pious and peaceable ose en avi ding strife and se e ki ng b enevo l ence ; s l ow to take i ll s tea and offering none, thereby, so far as in thee lieth, turn twoslen. injustice o f our a d versar i es i nto the i r own reproof and co ke In the name of the brotherhood, I bid thee wel wow" and Pr a y th at t h ou mayest l ong cont i nue among them a e nd " Y Orangeman, namely, fearing God, honouring the King, bt e 7 la intaiaing the law.' Then the master sh a ll communi e si o r cause to be communicated, unto the new member lai n gns and pass -words of' the brotherhood, and the chap- Rhhcor broth er appo i nted shall say, Glory to God in the n, and on ea r th peace, good- still towards men.' Afte r est r 811 the brother shall make obeisance to the master, and broesent sh a ll ta k e the i r seats, the cert i f i cate of the new e t i es a e r bein g fi rst duly signed and reg i s t ere d."—(Loud the e of " Hear, h ear. ") W as not t hi s a pro f anat i on of of theriptures ?—( Gr ea t c h eer i ng .) Wh a t were t h e d eta il s tvrittee Orange L o d ges ? Th ey may tru l y b e sa id to b e th e en blood.—( Cheers.) They arrogated to themselves . the e as sumption that t h ey exc l us i vely were P rotestants, and Y cen sured and cond emne d a ll w h o did not f o ll ow t h e course a ce Pnarked out. A great portion of the police in Ireland eh_u Oran gemen, and it was imp oss ibl e t h a t th e y cou ld dis the7 their d uty w i th impartiality, or that they would forget sibleiteist that b oun d t h em i n this brotherhood. It was not pos at the people should rest satisfied as long as this state Lo r a n ga continued.—( Hear, hear.) He would ask the Noble eetit l whether he would refuse to support the resolutions, and miiot_e_to keep in New South Wales men who had not been co ntr / o .° l- one -tenth or one-hundredth part of the criminal acts kent pt by these Orangemen ?—( Hear, hear.) Books were e 4 ies n e every l o d ge conta i n i ng records of its proceedings, and of these b oo k s were sent up to the Grand Lodge. The loer , als o , i n which orders were communicated to these m ada gt : not always by lettol:, lyet oral Gor,„nt , nieatiu.ls eio `Ch it was alleged in the evidence were considered Lnsafc or improper to be sent in weiting. This latter circumstance ought to excite a great degree of suspicion, and should awaken the attention of the Government to the sub ject. He did not intend to go beyond the year 1825 in the proceedings of the Orange lodges, when they formed new rules and regulations, and where they got rid of the oath. The general rules of this Orange association are : " I. The Orange Institution consists of an unlimited number of brethren, whose admission is not regulated by any other test than these of their religious character and principles. " 2. No person who at any time has been a Roman Catholic can be admitted into the Institution, except by special application to the Grand Lodge, or Grand Committee, accompanied by certi ficates and testimonials, transmitted through the Grand Secretary of this county, which shall be so satisfactory as to produce a unani mous vote on the occasion. . . . . " 3. Any member of the Orange institution who shall print or circulate anything connected with the Institution affecting its character, or the character of any of its members, without the sanc tion of the Grand Lodge or the Grand Committee, shall be expelled by the Grand Lodge. " 4. That every member of the Orange Institution shall belong to a Private Lodge, and thai, no person shall be proposed as a member of a Committee unless the Lodge to which he belongs is mentioned." Was not this sufficient evidence that they were an exclusive association, and illegal in every sense of the word. He had on former occasions expressed his dislike of Orange Lodges ; but he was not aware of the extent of their mischievousness until he had read the evidence taken before the Committee. The next resolution which he bad to propose was : " That no Lodge can be constituted without a warrant of the Grand Lodge of Ireland, signed by the Grand Master and Office bearers for the time being, and having the seal of the Grand Lodge thereto affixed. COPY OF WARRANT OF THE 44 ORANGE INSTITUTION." Day of County of (Statute of William 111. ) *District of ___- 18---- " By virtue of this Authority. Our well-beloved Brother ORANGE-MAN of the Purple Order (and each of his Successors) is permitted to hold a LODGE, No. , in the County and District above specified, to consist of TRUE ORANGE-MEN, and to act as MASTER and perform the re quisites thereof. (Count Seal) Given under our Great Seal. (Great Seal.) Copy.) ERNEST, Grand Master. Copy.) ENNISKILLEN, Deputy Grand Master. Copy.) HENRY MAXWELL, Grand Secretary. i Copy. War. SWAN, Deputy Grand Secretary. (Copy. ALEXANDER PERCEVAL, Grand Treasurer. (Copy. Huc Is R. BAKER, Deputy Grand Treasurer. ,igned by County Grand Master. S I am authorised to state, on the part of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland, that a marching warrant only differs from this,* in the district being filled up thus ; "District of Regiment." HENRY MAXWELL, Grand Sec." Here were the names of two Members of the House who were office bearers of this association, namely, H. Maxwell and A. Perceval.—( Hear, hear.) He held the establishment of Orange lodges in the army to be a great misfortune, and which ought to excite the immediate attention of Parliament. A regimental lodge was considered to be a district lodge, and sometimes there were two or three of them in one regiment. In 1814, the grand lodge directed that all lodges in regiments should be district lodges. Again, by the Isth rule of 1824, it was ordered, " that regiments are to be considered as dis tricts, and that masters of all regimental lodges shall make yearly returns of the numbers." This was after the Duke of York had issued his order of July, 1822, against the esta blishment of Orange lodges in the army.—( Hear, hear.) Was not this a violation of the law, and at the same time set ting at defiance the rules of military discipline.—( Hear, hear.) No man belonging to one of these lodges could be ignorant of what be was doing, or that he was not violating the law.— ( Hear, hear.) He found, by reference to this volume of evi dence, that the following - resolution of the committee of the grand lodge was agreed to : " Moved by Rev. C. Boyton, seconded by Francis Kierman. " April 22, 1830. " That this Committee recommended to the Grand Orange Lodge, at its meeting on the sth of May, to establish a law that all warrants in future be signed alone by the Grand Master, his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland, by the senior D. G. M. of Ireland, the Grand Secretary of Ireland, and countersigned by the County Grand Master. " W. Brownrigg, chairman. Thomas Nixon, A. G. I." They were also told that blank warrants were signed by the Duke of Cumberland. If any man was placed at the bar for an offence, and said that he was ignorant that it was against the law, the reply would be that he ought to have known the law. It was also the duty of the Duke of Cumberland to make himself acquainted with the state of the law as regarded these associations.--( Hear, hear.) It was no excuse for a man who sent a firebrand through the country that he did not know the uses to which it might be applied. Other circum stances tended to show that the illustrious person he had alluded to was not so ignorant of the law as was represented. The Grand Orange Lodge bad been established in England, and be had been informed that the members were sworn in ; his informant told him that he was taken from the dinner table and blindfolded, and led into a room, with a number of idle ceremonies, and sworn in an Orangeman. Subscriptions were entered into by the Orangemen of London to send mis sionaries to re-organise their institutions throughout the country. The Duke of Cumberland was at the head of this Lodge, and several Noblemen were members of it ; and he found that so late as last May there had been a meeting of the Society, at which Lord Kenyon presided. The resolutions agreed to at this meeting had been brought to him by a man who was present. After this it was perfectly futile to say that the Duke of Cumberland was not aware of the nature of the Society.—(Cheers.) Such was the persecution carried on by these bodies, that a man had told him that he could not do for him as he wished, because be was an Orangeman. The fourth resolution was : " That it appears by the laws and ordinances of the Orange In stitutions in Ireland, dated 1835, that the secretary of each private Lodge is directed to report to the secretary of the district Lodge; the secretary of each district Lodge to report to the grand secre tary of the county Lodge ; the grand secretary of the county Lodge to report to the deputy grand secretary of the Grand Lodge in Dublin ; and tine Grand Lodge to hold meetings at stated periods, to transact the ordinary business of the Society ; and the deputy grand secretary of the Grand Lodge to communicate half-yearly to each Lodge in Ireland, and also to the Grand Lodge of Great Britain." It appeared that the 1,600 local lodges met at stated periods twice a year; the proceedings of each were reported to the respective district lodges, reports from each of which were sent up to the Grand Lodge. The Grand Lodge met at cer tain periods, and on adjournment appointed a Grand Commit tee, which met every Wednesday for the transaction of busi ness.—( Hear, hear.) Was not this sufficient evidence of the complete organization of this society, and that there was an immediate connection between the extremities and the centre; and that the most ready communication could be made from the one to the other? He could refer the House to several parts of Mr. Swan's evidence in confirmation of this, and particularly to questions 1,304 and 1,509. He could also re fer to other documents, to shew the organization of these so cieties, and the effect it was likely to have on the peace of Ireland. An advertisement had appeared in one of the Dublin papers respecting the proceedings of the Orangemen of the county of Tyrone. in 1834. It requested that every private lodge would choose a delegate to send to this meeting, to petition against the Government. He brought forward the present motion, in confidence of obtaining the support of the Government. If the Whig Government had done their duty four years ago, they would have put down these societies. They appeared afraid of interfering with these societies, in stead of putting their feet upen them, and trampling them to the ground. These Orangemen were countenanced by so many Members of both Houses of Parliament and persons in autho rity, that they imagined that they could break the law with impunity. Deputies from each of the district lodges formed the Grand Lodge. This lodge contained 600 Noblemen and Gentlemen. Mr. Blacker, in his evidence, stated that mis sionaries were sent by this lodge to Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Glasgow, and other places, for the purpose of orga nizing Orange societies. One of ! the rules of the private lodges was as follows : " In order to establish a fund to defray the expenses of the Grand Lodge of Ireland, each lodge shall transmit a subscription of not less than 2s. 6d. annually to the county treasurer, to be by him forwarded (at the same time with the return of the county grand officers in April) to the deputy grand treasurer of Ireland. Mr. Blacker stated that there was a considerable deficiency in the funds of the chief lodge, as the subscriptions were not paid up. He thought that he had proved this resolution to the satisfaction of all. The next he had to propose was, " That Orange lodges have individually and collectively addressed his Majesty, both Houses of Parliament, the Lord-Lieutenant, and others, on special occasions of a political nature—such as on the subject of the Colonies, the change of Ministry, the education of the people, the Repeal of the Union, Catholic Emancipation, and Re form of Parliament." Cons He would leave out of the Resolution the observation about the Colonies, as he did not think that it was necessary then to introduce the subject. The evidence in support of this Reso lution afforded an answer to the observations that had been made at the early part of the Session as to his Majesty having given gracious answers to the addresses of Orange Lodges, when no answer had been given to addresses coming from the most respectable classes. He found that an active Orange Magistrate had had his name struck out of the Commission of the Peace, and he trusted that Lord Melbourne's Government would not only strike out the name of any Magistrate from the Commission of the Peace who belonged to this society, but that they would also order them to be tried.—( Hear, hear.) To expect anything like justice from such Magistrates was utterly inconsistent with all his ideas of good Government. —(Cheers.) He found the following order in Mr. Blacker's evidence : " [Appendix 76].—That eirenlars be forwarded to the several masters of the Orange Lodges in Ireland, requesting therri to pro cure petitions from their several lodges to both Houses of Parlia ment against the new Irish Education system, also against the Irish Reform Bill, and to forward them without delay to the Right Hon. the Earl of Roden, House of Lords, London, indorsed, " Par liamentary Petition.' " Was it surprising when such occurrences took place that they saw the Right Hon. Recorder (Mr. Shaw) come down to the House with a multitude of petitions against Irish edu cation, when all these 1,600 lodges were directed to send up their petitions.—( Hear, hear.) It was well for the Right Hon. Gentleman to say that the people of Ireland were opposed to these measures of the Government, but they proved how the opposition was got up. Again, in 28th Nov., 1628. " Resolved, that we deem it essential, for the preservation of our Protestant Constitution, that it should co-operate with the Com mittee of the Brunswick Club in procuring and obtaining signatures to petitions to be presented to his Afajesty and both Houses of Par liament, against further concessions to persons professing the Popish or Roman Catholic Religion."—( Hear. ) The sixth resolution he intended to propose was, " That the Grand Lodge of Ireland has interfered in political questions, and expelled members for the exercise of their constitu tional and social rights ; has hltcrfered at ekeficm, and defended criminal prQ , caitie:',.., ti appesr.i fro ..11 the evi , j , fsom the minutes of proceedin gs i n the hook of the Grand Lodge produced before the Select Committee." In conformity with this Resolution he found— " Q. 1935. That Mr. Archibald Fisher was expelled the society for canvassing and being an active partizan, and heading processions of bodies of men whose principles may be judged, from their shout ing O'Connell and the repeal of the Union." " Q. 1937. That John Hitton was removed from the Committee of the Grand Lodge, for not having voted at the late city election, that being on the 9th of June, 1831." He hoped the Noble Lord would be satisfied now of the interference of the Orange Society with the freedom of elec tion. Seeing the engines at work it was surprising that there was not more opposition in Ireland to liberal measures. Again, " That Mr. Ex-Sheriff Scott be expelled the insti tution for introducing Daniel O'Connell at breakfast on poli tical principles which we do not approve."--(Loud cheers.) This was a most respectable man, and had been expelled for this trifling reason. He should not object to these societies if they took care that their partizans were properly registered ; but they went far beyond this. In proof of what he said, he would merely refer to question 1548 and 1247. Again, there was the following evidence :-- "Q. 1938. That the Grand Committee be directed to remove from the list of officers of the Grand Lodge the name of any per son or persons supporting the Reform Bil as proposed by his Ma jesty's pr& sent Government. "Q. 1939. Tnat the Rev. Henry Cottingham and th - e Rev. Samuel Wills were expelled the institution on the Bth of June, 1831, for sacrificing their principles as Orangemen by voting for the Reform candidates." EXTRACTS FROM THE APPENDIX. " Ist September, 1831. " That Major Brownrigg be expelled from this Committee, in consequence of his conduct at the recent election in Dublin, arid that his expulsion from the institution at large be recommended to the Grand Lodge of Ireland, and that a copy of this resolution be forwarded to the King's county Grand Lodge." " 12th February, 1833. " That a sum of 102. sterling be placed at the disposal of Brother M'Ncale, for the purpose of defending an Orangeman, at present in the gaol at Dundalk." He understood that the person alluded to was to be tried for an attempt to murder a man with a butcher's knife. It did not signify the nature of the offence which these persons com mitted, es they knew that they would have the Orange Society to defend them against every charge that might be brought against them. The result of the system of which he com plained was, that in cases in which Orangemen and Catholics were apprehended for rioting, the Orangemen were let loose, and the Catholics prosecuted. If it did happen that the case was so flagrant as to oblige them to prosecute the Orangemen, money was sent to him, and he was furnished with the means of defence. Colonel PERCE VAL made some remarks, which occa sioned loud cries of " Order !" He said he wished to explain. —( Renewed cries of " Order," and " Chair.") The SPEAKER said it would give much greater facility tc their proceedings, and be much more consistent with the prac tice of the House, as well as more convenient to the MemberE individually, if the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman would take a note of any point which he wished to remark upon, and reserv, his explanation till the Hon. Member for Middlesex had con cluded.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. HUME proceeded: He would refer to the evidence, in corroboration of what he had stated. Question ; " Under the date of the 13th of February, 1833, there is this entry ; That a sum of Jul. sterling be placed at the disposal of bro ther M'Neale for the purpose of defending the Orangemai: at present in the gaol of Dundalk ;' is that correct?—lt is." This was a single instance, and one in which only 10/. has; bee.) advanced, but there were others in which it might be supposed that the sums were much more considerable. Take the following question :—" Do they advance money for the purpose of carrying on the prosecution or the defence of an) causes of any particular description ?—When petitions or me morials have come up to the Grand Lodge, stating that sub scriptions have been raised, or are in the act of being raised against any member of their body, or that a prosecution is un justly—(hear, from the Opposition side)—pending over their heads, the Grand Lodge, after due inquiry, have at various times advanced sums of money in defence of those brethren." Hon. Gentlemen cried " Hear, hear," where there was a re ference to the prosecution being unjust; but let him ask who was to decide that it was unjust ?—( Cheers.) Would any man be such a fool as to say that he sent money to defend a culprit who deserved to be prosecuted ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) He would now refer to the questions, " If Mr. M'Beith was considered unjustly accused of murder, that would be a ground for supplying him with money for his defence ?—Yes, I con ceive so. Mr. M'Beith was found guilty of manslaughter, was he not ?—I know nothing of the circumstances except what I have heard, but I believe so. Have you ever heard that that verdict was impugned for partiality I never heard it had been." He thought he knew who had put the latter question, because the answer was put first. It appeared, then, that money was supplied by the Grand Orange Lodges to defend persons charged with outrages ; therefore he charged the members of the Grand Orange Lodges with being the aiders, abettors, and defenders, of the riots which took place in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Such conduct must have the effeet he attributed to it ; parties of course would not so much care about getting into any scrape, if they knew that they were sure of having the means of defence. To show the interference of these lodges in political matters, he begged attention to the following : " 24th Dec. 1834. " That a document be prepared to be forwarded to the Orange electors of the city of Armegh, calling on them most strongl y to support a Protestant Candidate, and give their most determined opplsition to the return to Parliament of Mr. Dobbin, or any'utTgr person professing the same radical principles." Now, judging from what he had seen of the Hon. Gentle man Mr. Dobbin, he must say he was a Radical of the mildest description.—( Hear.) The next resolution which he should move was most important, it was this— " That it appears by the books of the Grand Lodge of Ireland, produced by its Deputy Grand Secretary, before the Select Com mittee of this House, that the undermentioned warrants for consti tuting and holding Orange Lodges have hoen issued, to Non-Com missioned Officers and 'Privates of the following Regiments of Ca valry and of Infantry of the Line, at home and abroad • to Non- Commissioned Officers of the Staff of several Militi a Regiments; to members of other corps, and to the Police." ( Loud cries bf " Hear, hear !") He would ask the House when the Police who belonged to these lodges came in contact with Catholics and Protestant Orangemen, how was it pos sible that they could act impartially ?—( Cheers.) His reso lution then went on to specify the persons to whom warrants appeared, according to the register of the Grand Lodge-ot Ireland, to have been granted. The Report gave this ques tion :—" Have the goodness to look at number 415, ' 30th January, 1835, Peter Duff, Fermanagh Militia;" do you fi n d that entry in the book ?—I remember perfectly a renewal of that warrant being taken out by Lord Cole " Lord Cole then took out that warrant ! If that could be proved, if it did not dismiss Lord Cole from his regiment, the standing orders were of no force. Question 2,571 stated that a warrant num bered 567, was granted to John Kennedy, Dublin, Ist Dra goon Guards, December 26, 1831. In the extracts from the book of proceedings of the Committee of the Grand Lodge, -was the following :- 4 , Ist Jan. 1834. " Resolved, that warrant No. 1592, be granted to Joseph M e i_ neigh, of the First Royals, on the recommendation of brother Adam Scheales, of Derry. " N. D. CROMELIN. " 25th March, 1835." N. D. Cromelin was in the chair, and there were the names of some fourteen or fifteen other individuals as present on that occasion. After seeing this, if there was any one who could believe that warrants were granted, and that the mem bers of the lodge knew nothing about it, he must think such credulous individuals wanting in common sense.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman referred to several other cases, in which warrants had been granted in a similar manner. They were all signed by the Field Marshal • and was he to be told that that individual was ignor an t o f the existence of such lodges in the army. He found from forty to fifty officers connected with these proceedings. He would ask the Hon. and Gallant Member himself how he could sit as a member of the lodge, and allow of such proceedings? He could only say that if such practices were to exist, the sooner they dismissed the army the better. They paid for Lord Hill's staff 16,0001. a year ; and he, for one, would vote against the maintenance of that staff, unless Lord Hill could take care that an end was put to these proceedings. The Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland (Lord Morpeth) should look to it. Could he expect the Yeomanry, if they were members of Orange lodges, to act±- impartially between the Protestants and Catholics ?—( Hear, hear.) Would he dare to call them out ? They ought to be dismissed instantly.—( Cheers.) Every Orange magistrate ought also to be dismissed.—( Cheering.) They might de pend upon it there would be no peace for Ireland while a dif ferent course was taken. This was a time to speak out.— , —(Cheers.) He was expressing his own opinions, and he was happy to find them so well received.—( Loud cheers.) There must be a clean sweep made of all—the polies included —who had any connection with the Orange Lodges. Mr. J. Crawford gave an instance of his being called to put down a row, while he had the command of a military corps, and when the men were desired to desist from their attacks upon . the people, they said, " Oh I why should we obey your orders? The Duke of Cumberland gave us authority, and he is a Prince ; the brother of his Majesty." The Hon. Gentleman here produced a certificate, bearing the signature of the Duke of Cumberland; and also a tin case, such as soldiers keep their certificates in—tin cases being generally used in the army for the preservation of valuable papers. It commenced with " King and Constitution I "--.( Hear, hear.) That was a blind, that they might do mischief. The men who had these words frequently in their mouths, he dreaded the most,— (Hear ' hear, from the Opposition side.) They affected to be loyal, but they were the greatest disturbers of the public. peace. Their loyalty, too, was conditional. As. long as the King maintained their ascendancy they were loyal ; but as soon as any thing was done by his Majesty, tending to destroy that ascendancy, their loyalty was at an - . end.—(" No, no and " Yes, yes I") These documents had engraved upon them likenesses of William 111. The members knew one another by signs.. He contended that if such a society had been known to exist, severe laws would have passed for its suppression. There were active proceedings at Malta. That these Lodges were extending themselves would appear from the following : " 17th December, 1829. " Moved by the Rev. C. Bo ton, seconded by E. Cottingharn, " That the neat dormant Number be issued to the 66th regi ment, and the Quebec brethren be directed to send in a correct re turn, in order that nosy warrants be issued." " 17th November, 1831. [Appendix 76.3—" Your committee have received from America the most cheering accounts, and the lodges now sitting there under your warrants emulate each o th er i n evincing their gratitude for, the interest taken by you in their welfare." He came now to the Bth resolution— " That such warrants are sent privately and indirectly to such Non-commissioned Officers and Privates, without the knowledge or sanction of the Commanding Officers of such, Regiments_ yr cyri,; ; a4..1 evcry Lv.lge licitl by the Auity as a eics lifiet Ludye." He would - wit read to the Heine correspondence, wbich;.,he would ask the Noble Lord whether he could sanction so underhand—so base a proceeding : COPY OF A LETTER FROM WILLIAM SCOTT TO WILLIAM SWAN, THE DEPUTY ASSISTANT, GRAND SECRETARY OF THE GRAND LODGE. [Q. 2856.] " 15th February, 1833. " SIR,—We, the Master, Deputy Master, and Secretary of 1458 Orange Lodge, of the 16th Company Royal Sappers and Miners, having in August, 1831, taken out the above Warrant from the county of Antrim Grand Lodge, we are increasing in number, and wish to be- supplied with any information which the Grand Lodge from time to time sends to our other country brethren. The regu lations not pointing out any means for Military Lodges holding com munication, we have therefore come to the resolution of applying by letter to you for instruction, which will be most thankfully received. From the peculiar nature of our duty, we do not remain long in any place ; therefore, your answering this as soon as possible will confer a lasting obligation on your most obedient, humble servants and brethren, William Scott, Master; Daniel Rock, Deputy Mas ter; Edward Dixon, Secretary." rAppendix] " William Scott, 16th Company Royal Sappers and Miners. " That the Committee would most willingly forward all docu ments connected with the Orange system to any confidential per son in Ballymena, as prudence would not permit that printed documents be forwarded direct to our military brethren.— ( Cheers.) J. ,, " [Q. 2,586]. In reply to this a letter from Mr. Scott, dated 18th February, stating, " I have to acknowledge the receipt of your etter of the 13th instant, and take this opportunity of expressing my thanks for the kind and gentlemanly manner in which you have answered last month's letter. I trust you will be kind enough to convey the thanks of the brethren of No. 1,458 , to the committee of the Grand Lodge, for their prompt consideration of our business, as well as for the interest they have shown in our welfare. The parcel containing the papers, &c., can be directed to Mr. Andi•ev. - Crosbie, saddler, who is a faithful brother, and can be depended on."—( Cheers. ) The 9th Resolution is this— _ _ . " That the general orders of the Commander-in-Chief of the Forces (Parliamentary Paper, No. 395 of 1835) addressed in the years 1822 and 1829, to commanding officers of regiments and de depots, and to general officers and other officers on the staff at home and abroad, strongly reprobate the holding of Orange lodges in any regiment, as 'fraught with injury to the discipline of (lie army;' aud, that on military grounds the holding of Orange lodges in any regiment or corps, is contrary to the order and to the rules of the service and, that a disregard of this caution will subject offending parties to trial and punishment for disobedience of orders.' " (Cheers.) Having laid these facts before the ,House, he would ask, could it be believed that his Majesty was aware of them ? The Noble Lord ought to take his Majesty's opinion on the subject. The Duke of Cumberland did not issue the warrants with his own hands; the blank warrants were put before him, and he signed them ; but there was an engraven memorandum at the bottom, and he would ask whether that was there at the time of the signature? He was informed that Lord Hill knew eothing of this matter, and that three years ago he did insti tute an inquiry. Colonel Dixon put down an Orange lodge in his regiment : but he did not do so till he found there ex isted in it a Riband Society also. Ile tolerated the Orange lodge till he fonnd the re-action. The tenth and eleventh Resolution which he had to move avers the following : " That these Resolutions, and the evidence taken before the Select Committee on Orange Lodges, be laid before his Majesty. " That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that he will be graciously pleased to direct his Royal attention to the nature and extent of Orange Lodges in his Majesty's Army, in contravention of the general orders of the Commander-in-Chief o: his Majesty's Forces, issued in the year 1822 and 1829, which strongly reprobate and forbid the holding of Orange lodges in any of his Majesty's regiments ; and also to call his attention to the nreurnstance of his Royal Highness Ernest, Duke of Cumberland, a Field Marshal in his Majesty's Army, having signed warrants, in his capacity of Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland (some of them dated so recently as April in the present year) which warrants have been issued for constituting Orange Lodges in the army." The Hon. Gentleman concluded with moving his first re solution. The question was then put by the SPEAKER. Mr. W. PATTEN intended to move an amendment to to the motion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, and in doing so he • must express his surprise at the manner in which the Hon. Gentleman had introduced his resolution to the House.—( Hear, hear.) If ever there was a farce, the pre scut proceeding was one.—( Hear, hear.) This subject was referred to a Select Committee, while the Committee was pro ceeding with their inquiry, the House was put into possession of part of the evidence, which did not amount to half; and the ilon. Gentleman availing himself of this portion, brought for ward resolutions on which he grounded attacks on the cha ractertair of individuals.—( the a 1 House s come v (H c e o a n r s , e n t hear.) to toa would resolution u t was on o this n the subject, on the statement of the Hon. Ge ntle m an ? In . his opinion, they should reserve their decision till the whole evidence was before them. For his part, he could not but express a hope that other societies might be included in the resolution. They had now proof of the most clear and dis tinct kind that riband societies existed in the very district over which Sir F. Stovin presided—such was the secrecy which attended them. On that ground be felt that the systein of ribandism was still more dangerous than that of Orange lodges, inas:nuch as the secrecy of its constitution had totally baf fled all attempts to inquire into it. With the evidence, however, which the House had of its existence, he thought that there could be no indisposition to include it within tl.e scope of the resolution. He now came to the subject ef the last resolution,. in which reference was made to en illustrious Duke, and the share which he was supposed to have taken in the promotion of Orange lodges. He thought that it would be an act of grors inkstice to imply an accusation against that illustrious Duke before they had gone fully into the evidence which might be brought before the Committee with the view of explaining his connection with the system. He should move, as an amendment, that all the resolutions which the lion. Gentleman proposed should be omitted, with the excep- Lion of a portion of the last ; or that the motion should be to this effect :—That an address be presented to his Majesty, graying him to direct his royal attention t o the nature and extent of Orange lodges existing in his Majesty's army, in contravention of the general orders issue d in 1822 and 1829, end also to cause investigation to be m ade into the existence of other secret societies." Mr. FINN strongly deprecated the nature and constitution )f the system of Orange lodges. He read an extract from the proceedings at a meeting for the promotion of Orange lodges in England, held at Lord Kenyon's house, with the Duke of Cumberland in the chair, who was appointed grand master of the empire; and also from an address which had been pre seated to that illustrious Duke, beginning with the words : " We, vonr dutiful subjects"—an extraordinary expression. said the Honourable Member, showing that those from whom it came bad begun a little too carly.—( Laughter.) He also read some of the names of the members of those lodges, which excited some cheering in the House; among them were those of Lord Wynford, late a Judge of the land ; the Lord Bishop of Salisbury ; Colonel Verner, M. P., H. Maxwell, M. P. ; and then referred to a letter which had been written by a member of them, evincing a disposition on the part of the authorities of the lodges to reject certain mem bers, because they had exercised the elective franchise accord ing to their independent will. Three individuals had voted for the Whig candidate at an election for a borough, " con trary," as the letter said, " to the principles of our loyal in stitution ;" and that was characterized as a proceeding calling loudly for the expulsion of those offenders, or delinquents as they were termed. The Hon. Member also read an address from the Grand Committee of the Orange Institution of of Great Britain to the Carlton Club and Conservatives of England, which spoke of the advantages afforded by the Insti tution, which being in active correspondence with all its branches, possessed the means of knowing the opinions of every man in the country. He promised the House that if this system were to continue in England, that country would would reap the same bitter fruits which had attended it in Ire land. With respect to the existence of Riband Societies, lie could only express his general wish to see every secret society of that description put down. He wished to see the whole system laid prostrate, feeling that it was incompatible with the peace and happiness of England.—( Cheers. ) Colonel WOOD felt quite persuaded that the Duke of Cumberland could not know any thing of the purpose to which these warrants were applied. In confirmation of that assertion, he could state, that it was only yesterday that he suet his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland, on his way to the House - of Lords ; and he stated distinctly, that his uniform practice had been to sign the warrants when blanks were left with him to be filled up.—( A cry of " Oh.") He only stated what his Royal Highness had told him, and what he believed. ' Mr. MAXWELL was not prepared to defend the existence of Orange Lodges in the army ; he considered it highly im proper that they should continue in it.—( Hear.) He could assure the House, however, most sincerely, that until he heard the fact mentioned in the Committee, he was not aware that the practice alluded to had prevailed. Mr. WARD hesitated notto say, that if the House consented to the amendment proposed, they would shrink from the pe.r formance of their duty.—( Hear, hear.) After the inquiry which was instituted to examine into the state of Orange Lodges had proceeded a considerable way in the investigation, it was ascertained that the system had been introduced into the army, and prevailed to a considerable extent. This organized plan of Orange Lodges had, it appeared, extended itself to re giments in Canada and Malta, and the Committee expressed their satisfaction at the cheering accounts which they had re ceived from the regiments in those quarters. What right, be asked, had the Orange Lodges thus illegitimately and uncon stitutionally to interfere with the British soldier, and convey an insinuation into the minds of these men that a private Associa tion of this description could in any way influence their welfare. It was the bounders duty of Parliament to :make known these proceedings to the Constitutional Sovereign of the Realm, though they did not, of course, suggest what steps should be taken, in order to put an end to them.—( Hear.) There was a meeting at Lord Kenyon's, at which his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland presided, at which it was determined that a certain sum of 15s. should be paid on taking out a war rant for forming lodges, but by which a special exception was made with respect to non-commissioned officers, soldiers, and , sailors, w h ose a d m i ss i on f ee was left to the discretion f the Committee. And yet the Illustrious Duke professed his ig norance of the existence of this system in the army..---( Hear, hear.) Accompanying this circumstance with the number of these warrants which were issued, as a conscientious man he could not entertain a doubt that his Royal Highness must have been aware that many of them were applied to the for mation of Orange Lodges in the army.—( Hear, bear, and a cry of " Oh !" from the Opposition.) He did not, he reite rated, for a moment doubt it.—( Hear, hear.) He had a per fect horror of all illegal societies whatever, in the army. He felt himself well qualified to judge of their effects, it having been his fate to have spent some years in countries on the pro ems of rv:dittion.—( A cry of " Hear," from the Opposition.) Gca-1 I use that, ,11,,51d-s:ky that there ' , Nati another conii'ry undergoing that process, though he could not declare such a react to be impossible, if such practices as these were allowed to be continued in the army.—(Cheers.) The spirit which gave rise to this was, he was persuaded, the main spring of all the jealousies, heart-burnings, and distractions, to which the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman's (Mr. Perceval) own ceun try was subjected.—( Cheers.) Look at it pervadinc , the yeo manry in that country, who could not be employed for the protection of life or property, without ensuring a violent exer tion of authority on the one side, and a connivance at any misconduct or outrage which might be committed on the other. —( Hear, hear.) It was now spreading through the army, and it already pervaded the bar and the bench in that coon try.—( Cheers.) He concluded by expressing his conviction that the House would be guilty of a dereliction of duty, if, from false delicacy or fear, they delayed in assenting to the resolution.—( Cheers. ) Colonel PE RCE VAL admitted that the existence of Orange Lodges in the army was not defensible ; but with respect to Ireland, the way to act fairly by that country would be to put down all societies whatever.---( Hear, hear.) These Orange societies were resorted to in self-defence by the Pro testants, and not from any hostility to the Catholics. The warrants which had been spoken of were signed by Mr. Maxwell and himself, and transmitted to the Duke of Cum berland, who knew nothing of their ultimate destination. At the time the warrants in question were issued, it was his entire conviction that his Royal Highness the Duke of Cum berland had no more idea of the purpose for which they were intended than he (Colonel Perceval) had when he signed them himself. He denied that the Orange societies violated any existing statutes. They exacted no oaths, no declara tions, no tests. Their object was to maintain that union with England the severence of which was the object of their opponents. He was persuaded that Orange lodges did not exist in several of the regiments which had been alluded to ; and he hoped the Noble Lord the Secretary at War would state that fact. Lord JOHN RUSSELL felt regret that his Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex had brought forward the subject at the present period. At the same time, as his Hon. Friend had in the exercise of his discretion, thought it right to do so, be (Lord John Russell) felt it to be incumbent upon him frankly to state his opinion respecting it. In expressing his disapprobation of Orange societies, it could not be imputed to him that he selected them as the sole objects of his censure ; the fact being that ever since he had been a Member of that House, he had expressed his hostility to all secrets of a similar description, and had been a party , to the framing of laws to put them down. He was also a most willing party to the Proclamation of 1831, which put a-stop to the proceedings, the dangerous proceedings as he considered them, of the Bir mingham Political Union. And whenever the laws against secret societies had been violated, he had always been desirous of punishing the violators, in order by their example to deter others from pursuing the same mischievous course. Having always entertained these opinions, and having al ways, as far as he could, enforced those opinions against po pular societies, and societies composed of the humbler classes, it behoved him not to shrink from expressing the same condemnation when some of the highest and most illustrious persons in the realm —(Loud shouts of hear, hear, hear, which prevented us from hearing the close of the Noble Lord's sentence)—when individuals of extensive party connections, of high rank, civil and military, bound themselves to the support of such societies, the injury they were calculated to produce was of course greatly increased. If such societies confined themselves to the object for the at tainment of which it was professed that they were framed— the maintenance of peace and harmony—still he should con sider them injurious. But when he saw them gettinr , on by degrees until they broke the peace which they professed to keep—until they corrupted the justice which they professed to maintain—until they seduced those over whom the King's prerogative alone ought to have influence—he thought it was the duty of Parliament by every means to discountenance, and, if possible, to put a termination to such mischievous corn binations.—( Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down had spoken of the existence of Ribbonmen in the regiments, as a kind of justification for the introduction into those regiments of Orange Lodges. He ( Lord John Rus sell) had nothing to do with the disputes between contending parties. If there were Ribbon societies in the army, let them be put down too. Let Parliament deal with a firm and im partial hand in suppressing societies, of whatever denomina tion, so fruitful of insubordination and mischief.—( Hear; hear.) It was with great alarm that he had heard the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, the treasurer of the Orange lodges, and the Hon. Member for C avan , t h e secre t ar y o f those odges, declare their total ignorance of the existence of such lodges in the army. The Ifon. and Gallant Member for Sligo had told the House that his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland, on the faith of his representations, had signed blank warrants ; and that he himself had signed them in con fidence in some other person. Added to this alarming fact was the other alarming and indisputable fact (acknowledged with the utmost frankness before the Orange Committee) that warrants had been sent to forty regiments; to the non-com missioned officers and to soldiers—signed by the Hon. Mem.: ber for Sligo, and by the Duke of Cumberland, a Prince of the Blood, without either of those parties knowing anything of the fact, and, indeed, being prepared loudly to condemn it. He only wondered, when he heard these things, that one fur ther declaration was not added to those which had been made, namely, that the individuals in question, deeply lamenting that they belonged to a society which had made so improper a use of their names, and seeing that the discipline of the army was in danger of being destroyed under pretence of their authority, had not lost - a minute in making it known that they had ceased to be members of such a society.— , (Hear, hear.) For his part, he was utterly at a, lose to conceive hew they could take any other course.—( Hear. ) He could not conceive it possible that the illustrious Prince who was at the head of the Orange Institutions, when the actual facts were brought home to his conviction, could think it consistent with his duty as a Prince of the Blood, and holding so high a rank in the army, to continue in that situation.— (Hear, hear.) In what be had said, ho bad uttered nothing in condemnatiem of his Royal Highness, or of the Hon. Mem bers, and had thrown out no imputation against them, except by stating what they had themselves avowed. He did not im pute to them (what certainly would be a very grave offence) that they-had a knowledge of the existence of Orange Lodges in the army. With these views, he now came to the consi deration of the resolutions proposed by his Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex. On reading them over, they appeared to him to contain only what they ought to contain--a sketch of the constitution of the Orange Lodges. If they contained anything more, that lie would propose to omit. Seeing that the great officers of the Orange Lodges denied and repudiated having any knowledge of the application of the warrants to the creation of Orange Lodges in the army, he (Lord J. Russell) had endeavoured to find out who the persons were who had con trived that misapplication. On this point he would read two of the questions and answers, which appeared in the evidence of Mr. Blacker, given before the Select Committee on Orange Lodges. The first was as follows :—" Are you aware whether the members of the Grand Lodge generally approve of the existence of regimental Orange - Lodges ?—To my own know ledge there is a vast difference of opinion on that subject with many of the intelligent and influential members be longing to the Grand Lodge of Ireland : some do not think it right, or proper, or conducive to the well-being and dis cipline of the Army in general, that such societies should exist • but they have been overborne by a certain majority on that point." He (Lord John Russell) had ascertained that the Grand Lodge in Ireland consisted of about three hundred persons of rank and property. Now it was difficult to excuse them, or, at any rate, it was difficult to excuse the minority—it was, indeed, difficult to believe that some member of that minority- did not make known to the Hon. and Gallant Member for Sligo, and to persons of still higher rank, the fact of the existence of regimental Orange Lodges. —( Hear, hear.) And why did the majority approve of such Lodges? The answer to the next question would show:— " What do you conceive to have induced the majority of the Grand Lodge to give their sanction to the existence or continuance of regimental Orange Lodges ?—lt is the know ledge and belief that societies , dangerous to the Established Church, and to the Protestant _ institutions of the country, already exist to a ,very great and dangerous degree through out the British army ; and those - members have argued and come to the conclusion, that they have no right to keep from soldiers -making applications for Orange warrants, when they have heard of the existence of such dangerous insti tutions, the effects of which, as far as in their power lies, can only be mitigated and neutralized by the establish ment of Orange Lodges."—(Hear, hear.) He wanted no other proof of the evil of such societies. It was declared that their knowledge and belief of the existence in the army of societies dangerous to the Established Church and the Protestant institutions of the country, induced the Grand Lodge to approve of the formation of Orange Lodges. Instead of applying to the high military authorities to put down the other Societies, they set up Societies of their own to counteract them! .What was that but to render the Bri- tish army, instead of a scene of perfect harmony, which it ought to he, a scene of contention and discord ? having one lot of soldiers ready to fight against another, instead of act ing altogether under his Majesty's authority to preserve the peace of the country against all offenders, be they Orange men, be they Catholics, be they Ribandmen, or be they foreigners. With these impressions on his mind, therefore, he could not do otherwise than be . prepared to agree to such of the resolutions as concerned, in the first place, the formation and constitution of Orange Lodges and Orange Societies; and in the second place, such as concerned the introduction of those Societies and Lodges into the army. But the Hon. Member had introduced whet be conceived to be an obstacle - in the way oPthe House agreeing to the whole of the resolutions, by the reference made in the last reso lution to an illustrious iudividual—..to his Royal . Highness the Duke of Cumberland.—now holding the rank of Field- Marshal in his Majesty's service. They must consider, with reference to _ that illustrious person, that it was almost impossible for the Houie to come to a resolution speci fically• naming the Illustrious Duke ; because it would be impossible that such a resolution could be considered other wise than a heavy ?ensure on the part of the Ilouse.—( Hear, hear.) He had gathered from the observations of the Hon. Member for Lancashire, that there were persons disposed to come forward to give evidence before the Committee, to show that his Royal Highness's opinions: were totally repugnant to to the formation of Cirange.lodges in the army ; and he un derstood from the Hon. Member for Brecon, that 'his Royal Highness had himself -made a declaration to that effect. Now he ( Lord John Russell) should not be disposed to coma to any resolution touching at all the conduct of any individual, if it 'could be said that that individual had not been fully heard in any defence or explanation he might wish to make.—( Hear.) He thought, with regard to his Royal, Highness the Duke of Cumberland, the opportunity of explanation bad not been fairly afforded.—(Hear.) - Whether or not they should come to any more thl - t a generr..ll resolution at all urou the subject, he might perhaps be disposed to qudstioa ; but with resppet 4to a resolution such as that to which he was referring , he ,must I say that without giving furtjior notico, so that his hoyal Highness might be aware of the motion, and of the dis cussion which had taken place, and of the way in which his conduct as Grand Master of these societies had been spoken of, it would be impossible for him to agree to such a resolution.—( Cheers.) With that opinion, therefore, saying at once that he was ready to agree to the resolutions, as far as they related to the constitution of Orange lodges, and to the introduction of these lodges into the army, he should be disposed to suggest that the remainder of the debate be post poned for some days—( Hear, hear)—in order that if any evi dence should be tendered before the Committee of which the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Lancashire was the Chair man, the Committee should have the opportunity of receiving it, and of•reporting it to the House. With respect generally to the evidence which related to the army, he understood the Hon. Gentleman to state that that evidence was fully closed, and therefore be should have no objection to agree to certain resolutions, or an address to his Majesty founded upon that evidence, provided that those resolutions or that address re lated not to the conduct of any individual, but to the more general subject—to the manner in which the Orange societies affected the peace of Ireland—to the manner in which they affected and weakened the authority of the Crown--and to the manner in which they disturbed the course of justice.— (Cheers.) Well, indeed, might the last be made an object of inquiry, when it was admitted by one of the officers of the society, that money had been sent down to defend prisoners— against what? Against a Government prosecution.—( Cheers) But with respect to that part of the subject—a vary grave and important part of it—containing, as it did, one of those many rocts of evil from which the miseries of Ireland had spread so fast and so - far ever the whole surface of her soil—with re spect to that part of the subject, he would then only say, that at another time he thought probably in the next session, it would become the matter of debate, and of the most anxious consideration in a House of Parliament anxious to maintain the authority of that House, to preserve the force of the laws, and to preserve the people themselves from contamination and dis- hoiour. Mr. W. PATTEN, amidst loud cries of " Adjourn," made • a few observations in explanation, as we understood of the course be had taken. Mr. HUM entirely concurred in the propriety and justice of the Noble Lord's proposition. The question that the debate be adjourned till Thursday next was then put,' and members flocked to the door tO leave the House, under the supposition that no opposition would be offered to the proposition. In the midst of the noise and con,. fusion, however, Sir ROBERT PEEL was anxious to state very shortly the view which he had taken of the question previous to the speech of the Noble Lord, because, if the debate were adjourned till Tuesday next, he might not have an opportunity of expressing his opinion upon the subject at all. He must state. in the outset that, notwithstanding what has been stated by the Noble Lord, be was still disposed to adhere to his previously formed opinion. He understood that the object of the Special Report was to obtain the evidence given before the Committee relating exclusively to the existence of Orange Lodges in the army. It appeared, however, that the Committee had found a difficulty in confining the selection of the evidence to that point only, and the consequence was, that they had presented a Report generally of the evi- - dance which had been taken, and in which Report of evi dence there was much of civil matter mixed up with the mili tary question. Still his impression was, that the point they had to consider was the existence of Orange lodges in the army, and he thought it would have been infinitely better if the resolutions moved by the Hon. Gentleman, and the de bate which ensued upon them, had been confined exclusively to the military questiori; because, if evidence were to he had upon the subject generally, it appeared to be premature to enter into any resolution when the whole of that evidence was not before the House. His construction of the resolUtion moved by the Hon. Member for Middlesex was different from that of the Noble Lord (Russell.) He thought that the first . six or seven resolutiOns referred to the institution of Orange lodges in connection with the question of military discipline. --(Hear, hear, hear.) [Lord John Russell here made an intimation to the Right Hon. Baronet, but in a tone of voice which did:not reach the gallery.) Sir Robert Peel continued ; If he objected to the House voting the preliminary resolu tions, it was an objection founded upon principle, and not upon any party view of the subject.—( Hear, hear, hear. ) Those preliminary resolutions consisted merely of an asser tion of mere matters of fact, without expressing any opinion, without stating that it was expedient that any law should be introduced upon the subject to which they referred, without stating that it was requisite that the Attorney-General should be directed to institute any prosecution against any party, or to take any step on any subject; yet those resolutions, so expres sive of nothing, were -to be communicated by the House to the King. Now that appeared to him to be a perfectly novel course.—(Hear, hear.) What could the Crown do? It could not say that it acquiesced in the opinion of the House, because the HoUse had expressed none.---( Hear.) He should have thought that the Noble Lord, and others the most hostile to Orange lodgei, would have•pretested against such a course es a very imperfect and inefficient one.--( Hear, hear.) If the .Noble Lord meant to say that it was necessary to have preli. minary resolutions explanatory cf the Orange Society, as a ground-work for other resolutions, that, to a certain extent, would diminish his objection ; but at the same time, he would recommend that such preliminary resolutions should be as brief as possible. It was perfectly indifferent to him what course the House teak upon the subject ; but he repeated that the course proposed to be pursued appeared to bins to be perfectly novel, and by no means convenient: At all events, he hoped, before the House affirmed the resolutions, it would at least he quite certain of the 'accuracy of the facts on which they were founded.—( Hear.) [Here some interruption was offered.l " I urn speaking," said the Right Hon. Baronet, "to the Ileuse ;—if the Hen. Gentleman is tired, lie may re tire.—(ltear, hear.) Ho has no right to interrupt me.— (Hear, hear.) I say at once that I. do not mean to take ad vantage of the circumstance of several Members having left the House under an impression that no division would take place. No man has a right to say that lam anxious to take an unfair advantage. I never have taken an unfair advantage of the House, and I never will. I say, therefore, at once, that it is not my intention to make any such objection to the pro position of the Noble Lord as shall end in a division—conse quently any Gentleman who is tired of the discussion may re tire." The Right Hon. Baronet continued to observe that, hav ing expressed his opinion with respect to the civil and general part of the question, he came next to the military part of it, and to the connection of Orange Lodges with military disci- ' pline. He had no hesitation whatever in condemning the in stitution of Orange Lodges in the army in as strong terms as any man the most opposed to them.—( Hear.) He believed that the existence of those separate societies—especially if they were of a secret character—unknown to the officers of those branches of the army in which they were instituted—he be lieved, he said, the existence of such a system to be eubvere give of all military discipline—(Cheers)—and that it either led to or followed the formation of other institutions of a secret and political character.—( Hear.) He cared not by what name secret political societies might be known; it was im possible to defend their existence in the army.—( Cheers.) Entertaining that o p inion, he thought it probable that the Noble Lord would have proposed that they should present the evidence which had been taken upon the subject to the Crown, and that then they should address the Crown, pray ing it to institute an inquiry into the Orange Lodges in the army. Ile should have been perfectly ready to acquiesce in such a proposition. The House ought to exercise a great deal of circumspection before it pledged itself to resolutions, founded upon facts said to exist, but which had not been fully proved to exist. Proceeding upon erroneous data, always tended to lower the character of the House. He maintained that as yet they had no means of knowing whether the facts re ported in the resolutions were true. When he was called upon to affirm a variety of facts, with respect to thirty or forty regi ments, he felt that he ought to have some stronger evidence than any which had yet been afforded, to convince the House that its proceedings would not be open to objection on the ground of inaccuracy.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The course lie should have been disposed to acquiesce in was this:—Ho should have been perfectly ready to vote for a resolution de scriptive of the constitution of Orange societies, as the ground work for some subsequent resolution, which should answer . every purpose contemplated by the first resolutions moved by the Hon. Gentleman opposite - ( Mr. Hume.) He then should have been perfectly prepared to acquiesce in a motion that an humble address be presented - to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased, not only to direct his Royal attention (this was rather anew form of address) to the ; subject, but that he would be graciously pleased to cause an immediate .inquiry to be made into the nature and extent of Orange societies in the army. Mr. HUME—That would have been dictation.:—(Hear, and laughter.) Sir ROBERT PEEL : The Hon. Gentleman is highly sensitive as to the mode in which the Crown should be ad dressed.—( Laughter.) I was not aware that the terms in which I was expressing myself could be construed into a dic tation to the Crown. However, if ever I hear any reflection cast on the Hon. Gentleman for want of loyalty or decorum, I shall-always bear testimony to the fact, that when I proposed that the Crown should be asked to institute an enquiry, the Hon. Gentleman very significantly shook his head and said, " No, no; that would be dictation."--(Great laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded to observe, that though he was prepared to acquiesce in a motion calling for an inquiry into the mode in which the warrants of the Orange lodges had been conveyed into the different regiments, he should have objected in that stage of the proceedings to any special refe rence to the conduct of his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland. At the same time he did not wish to except that illustrious individual from the fullest inquiry, either be fore the Committee or any other tribunal before which his conduct might be impugned. He thought that the assertion of the Noble Lord (Russell) upon that point was perfectly well founded ; and that it was impossible to name an indi vidual in a resolution of the . kind which had been pro • posed to the House without implying censure.—( Hear, hear.) To imply censure on his Royal Highness, in that state of the inquiry, would not be consistent either with jus— tice or equity. At the same time he must say that be thought the course proposed to be taken by the Noble Lord was partly open to the very same dejection that the Noble Lord.had himself taken to -the .Resolution in which the Illus trious Duke was mentioned. The Noble Lord proposed a short adjournment of the question, as if it were expressly for the purpose of allowing the Illustrious Duke an opportunity of vindicating himself. It the adjournment of the debate were • to take place upon the ground that the inquiry was; not ye , : complete, he (Sir Robert Peel) should not , object Noble Lord H tru t st i e t d that that adjournrasthesigierociuilcandilyonotuvittihcea }sun .ground that th e a o th i ( l ) Illustrious r D e u tl k w e s c h o o n i l d ul d it i t i c a e v , e a a l u no c u p i p lt e e r d tu i n n it t if to he th p e leiasmp ed geeing is i dna of censure upon. the Illustrious Duke, and therefore was open to the same objection that, he Neble Lord had taken to the Resolution.—( Hear.) He should not oppose the adjourn- i