The Sun. — London, England, 1835-07-17 00:00:00

COURT CIRCULAR. His Majesty returned to Windsor Castle on Wednesday night, from town. The Duke of Cambridge, attended by Sir James Reynett, left town on Wednesday for Warwick, on a tour. The Duke of Cumberland honoured Viscount Canterbury with his company at dinner last evening. The Marquis Cam den, Marquis of Hertford, Lords Lyndhurst, Hill, Fitzgerald, and Leven, and a select party, were present to meet his Royal Highness. The Duchess of Cambridge, attended by Baroness Able felt and Baron Knesebech, and the Duke of Cumberland, were present on Wednesday night at the entertainment given by the Duchess of Sutherland. The Duchess and Princess Augusta of Cambridge, attended by Baroness Ahlefeldt, Prince George of Cambridge and his preceptor, the Rev. Mr. Wood, left Cambridge-house at three o'clock yesterday afternoon, on a visit to their Majesties at Windsor Castle. Lord Glenelg left town at an early hour yesterday morning for Windsor Castle. His Lordship had an audience of the King, and returned to town in the afternoon. The Spanish Minister visited Viscount Palmerston yester day, at the Foreign-office. Mr. Mark Philips and a deputation had an interview yes terday with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and President of the Board of Trade, in Downing-street, on the subject of the Danish Claims. Lord Henniker and Sir C. Vere had an interview yesterday with Mr. Poulett Thomson, at the Board of Trade. PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS. PUBLIC PETITIONS. The following is the 25th Report, and exhibits respectively the total number of petitions presented, with the signatures, up to Junel29, and 30, 1835. CHURCH OF SCOTLAND—Against Endowment, 308 peti tions; 127,158 signatures ; for, 693 petitions; 173,910 sig natures. IRISH PROTESTA NT CHURCH ESTAIILISHMEN T—For retain ing all the Revenues, 89 petitions, 47,171 signatures. SPIRIT LICENSES—Against the additional duty, 186 peti tions ; 12,770 signatures. STAMPS ON NEWSPAPERS—For Repeal of Duty, 56 peti tions ; 24,861 signatures. DORCHESTER LABOURERS—For remission of sentences, 81 petitions ; 131,824 signatures. DRUNKENNESS—TO check the practice of, 52 petitions ; 15,674 signatures. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BlLL—Against, 41 petitions ; 8,675 signatures. IMPRISONMENT POR DEBT BILL (ScoTLAND)—Against, 25 petitions ; 4,710 signatures. HAND-LOOM WEAVES—For a Board of Trade, 67 peti tions ; 62,414 signatures. HAND-LOOM WEAVERS—For Relief, 2 petitions ; 737 sig natures. _ _ _ MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL—In favour of, 40 peti tions ; 45,629 signatures. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BlLL—Against, 37 petitions ; 10,609 signatures. Pooß LA W AMENDMENT ACT—Against some of its clauses, 12 petitions ; 7,749 signatures. POOR LAWS ( IRELAND)—In favour, 4 petitions; 23,052 signatures. PUBLIC CARRIAGE METROPOLIS BlLL—Against, 2 peti tions ; 98 signatures. CHICHESTER CORPORATION—Against its election, influences, &c., and that the poll may be taken by Ballot, 1 petition ; 173 signatures. AGRICULTURAL Disnass-71 petitions ; 29,874 signatures. NEW SOUTH WALES. CLAIM of the FREE INHABITANTS of NEW SOUTH WALES to a LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. TO THE HONOURABLE THE COMMONS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND, IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED. THE HUMBLE PETITION OF THE FREE INHA BITANTS OF NEW SOUTH WALES. We, his Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, free inhabitants of New South Wales, assembled at a public meeting, duly convened by the Sheriff, in Sidney, on this, the forty-fifth anniversary of the formation of the Colony, in again preferring a statement of our wants, beg to express our grateful thanks for the attention bestowed by your Honourable House upon our condition, on the presentation of our late Petition for Trial by Jury and a House of Assembly. The pledge made by the Under Secretary for the Colonies on that occasion, that Trial by Jury had already been conceded by his Majesty's Government, has diffused among us unlimited satisfac tion ; and in the earnest hope that such pledge comprehends the establishment of Grand and Petty Juries in the same form as in England, your Petitioners have confined the expression of their present wants to a Representative Assembly. It is needless to point out the inalienable rights of Britons, in whatever colony they may have fixed their abode, to the Constitu tion of their mother country. His Majesty's Under Secretary for the Colonies, Lord Howick, in debating on the late Petition, dis tinctly admitted the justice of our claim, upon principle, to those institutions which are so highly cherished by Englishmen, whilst he opposed their present introduction upon grounds of expediency, assigning as the only reason for withholding from the inhabitants of this Colony all share in their own government and taxation, the " party spirit and violent rancour" which the Noble Lord stated to exist between dig's , : ent classes of our society, and the overwhelm ing influence which would be acquired by the Emancipists over every other class in a Colonial House of Assembly. Your Petitioners have read this report of Lord Howick's speech with surprise and grief. Assembled on the spot where we could not venture to assert what is capable of refutation, your Petitioners thus publicly disclaim the imputation cast upon our community, whilst we cannot but feel that a statement from such high autho rity, so much at variance with the fact, by displaying the great misapprehension which exists with respect to the real state of the Coleny, furnishes a cogent argument for granting to it a Repre sentation of its own. We do not attribute the statement made by the Noble Lord to any wilful perversion of the facts within his means of knowledge. We are satisfied that it was founded on information derived from ig norant or interested persons ; or, at any rate, that amongst the va rious accounts which his Lordship had received, it was impossible to obtain a correct view of our situation ; and such we respectfully represent will ever be the case, until the Colony has within itself an Assembly, wherein the wants of the people may be openly discussed, and whence information may be correctly derived. That the " violent and rancorous" party feeling assumed to exist in New South Wales is purely imaginary, we beg to call the attention of your Honourable House to the numerous public esta blishments which have been formed, and are maintained in the Co lony, for purposes of benevolence, education, and trade ; to our Banks, Colleges, and Charitable Societies. In these and many others, support has been given by respectable individuals of every class—emancipist, emigrant, and their respective descendants, and yet it is not found that party feelings have occasioned any difficulty in their management ; on the contrary, the success of the establish ment has ever secured a paramount consideration, and the very union of different classes to promote one common object has become the means of allaying that party spirit which it is strangely enough assumed it would excite. We would further instance the numerous signatures of every class and description of free people within the Colony, which are appended to the last and to this Petition. If each party feeling as is attributed to us really subsisted, our Peti tions for a House of Assembly would not obtain such general, we may almost say universal, support. Whilst we decline, however, urging upon the wisdom of your Honourable House whit class of persons amongst us should be eli gible to elect or be elected to a Legislative Assembly, we deem it right to state that inasmuch as the freed portion of our population reside principally in the towns of Sidney, Paramatta, Windsor, and Liverpool, if it be true that this class do possess that prepondera ting weight from their number and property which has been relied on by his Majesty's Under Secretary for the Colonies (in which view, however, your petitioners do not concur) their influence, whe ther real or imaginary, might easily be obviated by confining the votes of all electors to the place of their residence, and by reducing the number of Members to be returned by those towns somewhat below what their population would otherwise justify, on the one hand, andby giving to the interior districts and counties, which are chiefly peopled by emigrants more than the doe proportion of Mena bees on the other. We assure your Honourable House, that cur present Legislative Counoil, so far from being the guardian of our interests, has served as might have been anticipated from Its being composed of mere nominees of the Crown, and those mostly holding offices from which theyare removable at pleasure, to ward off all responsibility from the Executive Government, and to give a legal sanction to many injurious measures, and to a heavy loa of taxation, not more unne cessary in its amount than opposed to the well-being of the Colony and which we are conscious that the Executive Government of it self, had the Legislative Power been confided to its sole exercise, would net, on its risk and authority, have ventured to enforce. These observations are confined by your petitioners to the mere constitution of the Legislative Council, which, possessing no points of contact with the people at large is, it must be evident, essentially devoid of sympathy with the public feeling, and ignorant alike of the public wants as of the state and resources of the country for which it is called upon to legislate. Whilst we would thus impress upon your Honourable House the inadequacy of our present Constitution, we humbly represent, that nothing short of a Representative Assembly will satisfy our wishes, or suffice for the rising condition of the Colony. In proof that the Colony is ripe for the introduction of the great constitutional right for which your petitioners are thus desirous, we are not aware that we can refer to any facts more strongly in point than our growing trade, revenue, and population. It appears from official documents, that our imports in 1828, amounted to 570,000/. ; and our exports, exclusive of bills drawn by the Commissary on the Treasury, to only 90,050/. ; and in 1832 the total value of our imports (properly so called) amounted to 510,7331., whilst our exports had increased to 371,1741., and the drafts of the Commissary on the Treasury (which are in the nature of en export) amounted to 115,629/. ; thus leaving an excess of imports over exports, of only 23,940/., and establishing the grati fying prospect, that our exports in the current year will conside rably exceed our imports. It also appears from official docu ments, that the Revenue of the Colony for the year 1828, amounted only to 94,862/- whereas, in the year 1832, it had increased to 135,9091. 15s. 6140. We have no correct data, in consequence of the known inaccuracy of the last census, taken in 1828, from which the number of our free population can be determined with any degree of precision. Bat by referring to the more correct returns of 1824, aid allowing for the increase which must have taken place, from births, immi gration, and the freed, since that period, our free population at pre sent may be estimated at about 45,000 souls, and the prison popu lation at about 25,000; whence it is apparent, that every free in habitant of this colony, man, woman, and child, pays at the rate of 3/. towards the public expenditure —a rate of taxation considerably exceeding what is levied on our fellow-subjects at home, and carry ing with it the irresistible conclusion, that a people sufficiently ma ture for taxation, to such an amount, must know best how to im pose their own burdens, and to appropriate the revenue raised from the fruits of their industry. . " /Your petitioners, in thus coming before your Honourable House, ra. ask that as a boon which is due to them as of right, cannot but l-=•-• 4 L:I 1.- express their fears, notwithstanding the sincere respect they enter taro for the Councils of his Majesty, that so long as the Revenue ~.,- . ' of this colony forms so large an item in the patronage at the dis 'l;! posa l of the Colonial Office, the people of New South Wales can ' .. , __not hope, without the interference of your Honourable House, to A,.... , obtlih the bleseinge of & Constittitioh %Thigh is their birthright; and 1 1 4„ t 470„; 63,135 From the above it will be perceived that the privilege of Legis lative Assemblies by election, is granted to 65,135 British born subjects, scattered through fourteen colonies, whilst it is denied to New South Wales, whose returns are as follow : Population. Ships. Imports. New South Wales 60,794 The two Canadas, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Cape Bre ton, Newfoundland, and Prince Edward's Island, have all Legisla tive Assembles. NEW SOUTH WALES STATISTICS. POPULATION 1833 yet your petitioners already pay more than is required for the sup. port of their civil government, and are ready and willing, and here by submit, to defray all proper and necessary expenses for the time to some. Your petitioners beg to inform your Honourable House, that there are 120 magistrates, and at least twice that number of other colonists of equal wealth, intelligence, and respectability, qualified to act, and from whom an efficient House of Assembly eould be selected ; and your petitioners therefore hope that your Honourable House will grant them a House of Assembly in which there may he not fewer than fifty members, as that number would be requisite in a eountry so extended, to secure a due attendance of members, and to insure their independence. Your petitioners cannot bnt feel that these their just claims come under peculiarly favourable auspices before a Reformed House d Commons ; that to extend the privileges of a Constitution, the spi rit of which our brethren in England have been engagod in so arduous a struggle to renovate, must seem almost a sacred duty. We assure your Honourable House, that the people of New South Wales ardently desire to participate in that glorious charter of free dom which you have lately obtained for ynurselves and your pos terity in the parent country ; and that your Petitioners feel they owe it to themselves and their children to persevere with the same ardour to obtain their rights, which has been lately evinced by their fellow -countrymen throughout Great Britain. To the wisdom of your Honourable House your Petitioners com mit their cause, satisfied that it cannot be your desire to alienate the attachment of this rising Colony, by longer withholding from its inhabitants that inherent right of the British Constitution—the right of levying and appropriating . their own taxes, which, accord ing to the common law, accompanies English subjects, in whatever settlement they may reside. Your Petitioners therefore pray that your Honourable House ,will be pleased humbly to address his Majesty to bestow upon them a Representative Assembly. And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c. Si g ned by nearly Six Thousand Free Inhabitants.] Number and Names of I semblies ; together wit ber of Ships that ent,i the year 189. (Exti British Colonies possessing Legislative As th the amount of British Population, num ered their Ports, and value of Imports for tracted from Parliamentary Returns. ) INo. I Name of Colony. 1 (Jamaica 2 i Antigua. .... . S Flarbadoes 4 I Dominica 5 , Grenada ... . 6 ;Montserrat 7 'Neves 8 'St. Kitt's . 9 St. Vincent's 10 Tobago 11 Tortola 12 Anguilla 13 Bahamas 14 !Bermudas White Population, 30,000 1,950 14,959 840 801 330 700 1,612 1,301 322 477 3,465 t(including Blacks) 4,240 3,905 Ships Imports. £3,741,179 285,500 499,214 141,911 359,813 40,958 78,278 1V2,280 414,558 158,385 33,242 Increase 24,196 REVENUE 1832 Increase in four years £13,187 IMPORTS 1828 £570,000 1833 Increase.. EIPORTS ...£75,949 1828 1833 Increase £385,152 SHIPPING ENTERED THE PORT OF SYDNEY. Ships. Tons. Alen. 1828 1833 Vessels belonging to the Port, 94. IMMIGRATION. 1830 1831 76.5 Increase on two'year: 4,691 1, 3,926 Free Persons. LIVERPOOL COTTON MARKET, JULY 15.--We experienced a steady demand for cotton to-day. About 2,500 bales have been sold at full market prices, viz-50 Ballias, 14 1 ; 320 Maranhams, Isd. to 15. d; 300 Pernams, 14Ad. to 15 4 -id., a few 16d. ;50 Surat, 7d. ; the remainder American, from 10d. to 12ed. INCENDIARISM IN THE GRAMPIANS.--The .system of revenge and destruction by arson, or, as it is termed in Scotland, " wilful fire-raising," has, we regret to state, ap peared among the Grampians. On the 10th ult., a shieling, or shephei d's hut, on a farm belonging to Lord Panmure, in Lochlce, was burned to the ground. This daring act has evi dently been the work of poachers, a desperate gang of whom infested these and other large districts of his Lordship's moors in 1833. Lord Panniure being admitted to be the most libe ral nobleman in Scotland, both as a landlord and with regard to his game, the destruction of this lonely shelling could not proceed from the same motives as promoted the burnings in England last year ; but must have ar►sen from a desire to de stroy a hut which commanded an extensive view of the glen and the surrounding hills.—Stirling Advertiser. PRIZE-FIGHTI NG.—A most disgraceful exhibition took place on Tuesday morning in a field on the Edgware road, about a mile from Kilburn, occasioned by a butcher re siding in the Broadway, Westminster, who, it is said, has just returned from a lunatic asylum, inducing two well-known characters, named Ballard and Wren, the former one of the most notorious smashers in Westminster, and the latter of an equally reputable calling, to fight for a couple of sovereigns. The combatants were fitted out by the butcher with a new suit of clothes each, and the savage amusement lasted for an hour and forty minutes, when Ballard was declared the victor, and driven to Westminster by the butcher (who is a man of consi derable property) in triumph. Both the fellows were most severely punished, and Wren is said to be in a very dangerous condition, so much so as to excite alarm on the part of his an tagonist. The exhibition had been a long time in contempla tion, and was attended by all the costermongers in West minster. The only persons possessing anything like the out ward semblance of" gentility" were several well-known mem bers of the "swell mob," who seemed to be remarkably busy in their avocation. AWFUL OCCURRENCE AT THE LONDON AND BITIMINOISAM RAILWAY.—TEN Llvks LOST.—Yesterday morn ing the town of Watford, and the country for several miles round, was thrown into a state of the greatest excitement and alarm, in consequence of a report gaining rapid circulation, and which unfortunately proved too true, that one of the shafts of the tunnel of the intended railway to Birmingham, which runs through the Earl of Essex's estate at Russell Farm wood, about two miles beyond Watford, had fallen in, and been at tended with an immense sacrifice of human life. In the course of a few hours thousands were drawn to the spot, and the scene that occurred is indescribable. The following are the particulars :—The shaft in which this lamentable affair took place, is situated in the midst of Russell Wood, a very pic turesque spot, and the approach from Watford, would lead few to expect that the line of the Birmingham Railroad was eighty feet below the spot. The shaft in question, one of the four in this length of tunnel (1,700 yards), is termed a gin -shaft, and had been sunk about ninety feet below an elevated plat form, erected for the purpose of removing the earth. The shaft has been lately sunk, and two nine-feet lengths of tun nel had been bricked, the third being, it is stated, just mined and ready for the bricklayers. The shaft was about to be bricked yesterday morning, between five and six o'clock, by a party consisting of five bricklayers and six labourers, who composed what is termed the night-gang; and had the ap palling event taken place a few hours afterwards, the morn ing-gang would have been at work, and the loss of human life must have been awful in the extreme. As it is, it is impos sible to state correctly the number of victims that have fallen by the dreadful catastrophe, as not one out of the number that was at work is left to tell the dismal particulars. In loosening a portion of the wood-work previous to bricking the shaft, it is supposed the earth gave way, and buried the unfortunate men, carrying the whole of the wood-work with it. When the earth fell, a horse and gin were partly buried beneath, and it was with great difficulty the horse was extricated, and it was dis covered that the poor animal bad sustained much injury. For tunately, however, the man attending to the gin heard some of the earth in the shaft fall, and feeling the ground under his feet giving way, he made a precipitate retreat, and provi dentially escaped, while a dog that was lying by his side was buried with the earth. The falling of the immense zpiantity of earth into the shaft has caused an abyss of about 35 feet deep, and about 40 feet in breadth. The names of all the unfortunate sufferers we have not been able to ascer tain, but it is known that among them are Mr. Barker, the sub-contractor, Mr. Jordan, inspector of the brick-work windmill, a labourer, and Benson, a miner, all of whom have left wives with large families to bemoan their loss. The men must be buried upwards of 80 feet below the surface of the earth, and although 60 men are actively engaged in digging out the bodies, it is probable that six or seven days will elapse before they aro extricated. About half-past 8 o'clock last night it was reported to the time-keeper of the shaft, that in driving the heading way of the tunnel from the next shaft the groans of some of the sufferers were heard. He immediately went to the spot, and found that the men employed in digging had actually introduced them selves into that part of the tunnel which was bricked over, and got hold of the gin rope, but were unable to find any of their unfortunate fellow-workmen. THE HERRING FISHERY.--The Inverness and Glasgow papers informs us, that the herring fishery has now set in abundantly. Several hundred barrels were caught at Wick, and on the Latheron coast, in the beginning of June, an unusual fishing at that season. The boats from Port Skerra, on Saturday week, had generally fine takes of excellent fish, very far superior to any yet seen. The ordinary period of commencement is not till the 20th of July, so that the herrings are this year earlier than usual. Every preparation is making at Wick, and the people are elated with the prospect of an abundant fishing. At Tarbert, in the West Highlands, there were upwards of four hundred boats at sea on the morning of Saturday week, and all got herrings—from three hundred to fourteen maize, or seventeen hundred. They have been pur chased by the curers for the Glasgow market, at from 7s. 6d. to Bs. per hundred, and are of the finest quality. In Lochklo also, the ishely last week proytd highly lucrative. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, J'ar 16 . The SPEAKER took the Chair at Five o'clock. Mr. CAMPBELL brought up copies of the correspondence relative to the case of Mr. Buckingham, Mr. BARNARD presented a petition from Greenwich, in favour of the Greenwich and Gravesend Railway. Sir F. POLLOCK presented a petition from the owners and occupiers of land in Godmanchester, praying that the rights of freemen might be preserved under the Corporation Reform Bill. NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. Mr. HAWES presented a petition from certain architects, complaining of the delay in delivering the plans and other par ticulars relative to the building of the new Houses of Parliament, and praying that an inquiry may be instituted into the cause of it ; also that the plans might be exhibited in some public place in order that public opinion might be passed upon them. The petitioners also complained of the orders that had been issued to take down part of the ruins of St. Stephen's Chapel, and that several architects had been prevented from visiting the ruins in order to ascertain whether they were in a dangerous state or not. The Honourable Member trusted that means would be taken by his Majesty's Government to facilitate the admission of architects to view the ruins, in order that the opinion of professional men might be ascertained as to the necessity of removing them or not. After a few observations from Mr. HOPE, the petition was ordered to lie on the table. CORPORATION REFORM. The Earl of LINCOLN presented a petition from the bur gesses of Nottingham against certain parts of the Corporation Reform Bill. The Noble Earl did not see how destruction of the rights of the petitioners would promote the good of the town of Nottingham. In his opinion, the effect of the pre sent Municipal Reform Bill would be, not only to deprive the burgesses of their privileges, but of their property.—( Hear.) The petitioners further complained that the effect of this Bill would be to deprive them of many valuable rights, arid amongst others the right of pasturage over 1,176 acres of land. He put it to the Noble Lord the Secretary of state for the Home Department, whether it was right or just to deprive of their privileges and property so large a class of poor persons? He hoped the House would not allow these clauses to remain part of the Bill. Mr. A. TREVOR entirely concurred in the prayer of the petition. Mr. PRYME said, that every kind of waste and spoliation took place where the right of common prevailed, and nothing could be more beneficial to these burgesses themselves, than that this property should be vested in the hands of a Town Council. Mr. PL UMP TR E had been requested to support the prayer of the petition, which he did most cordially. The petition was then laid on the table. RIGHTS OF FREEMEN. Mr. R. LUSHINGTON wished to ask a question of the Noble Lord opposite, viz., whether he meant to bring in a clause to preserve to existing freemen their political rights ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no intention to introduce any clause to that effect. As he understood the Bill, it did not take away any rights from existing freemen. It was not, necessary, therefore, to introduce any such clause. Those who now had rights would continue to enjoy them. Mr. MILES moved for an Address to His Majesty for cer tain Returns respecting the Boundaries of certain boroughs in England and Wales.—Ordered. Mr. E WART presented a petition from the owners of small tenements in Liverpool, praying for a change of the Law as respected them. Mr. AGLIONBY strongly supported the prayer of the petition. He trusted some measure upon the subject would be introduced by the Government. They would easily sur mount the difficulties which were in the way of a private Mem ber of the House. The ATTORNE Y. GENE RAL thought the question was in very good hands, when in those of the 'Hon. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby). He trusted that during the recess he would turn his special attention to the subject, and be prepared in the next session to introduce a measure upon it. Mr. AGLIONBY said he had already two Bills prepared, and would most willingly give them into the hands of the Attorney- General, if he would promise to press them through. Sir R. GREISLY and two Hon. Members (names unknown) presented petitions upon the Corporation Bill, but from the noise in the House, it was impossible to catch the purport, or the names of the places from whence they came. Mr. HOPE presented a petition from 309 freemen of Gloucester, in which they stated that the freedom of the city had now become valuable, and complaining, that under the present Corporation Bill these rights would be abolished. CORPORATION BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL presented several petitions in favour of the Municipal Corporation Bill, but owing to the low tone in which the Noble Lord spoke, it was not heard from whence they came. TELE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JULY 17, 1835. in any stage of the Bill he chose, to state all his objections to it--as he had not yet heard those objections, he would not be expected to have answered them.—( Cheers and laughter.) Col. SIBTHORP was similarly situated with the Hon. Baronet. The Noble Lord was bringing and pushing forward one of the most important of Bills, without the House being in possession of any knowledge of what the real principles of it were, brought forward as it had been. There had been three editions of it printed, the last of which had only been put into the hands of Hon. Members that morning ; in fact his own copy was not yet dry.--( Laughter.) Then how was it that they could have made up their minds upon such short notice, and without discussing the principles of the Bill ? The Noble Lord upon the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex had sub silentio shoved (with an appropriate gesture) into the Bill, five new clauses of which the House had never before heard.—( Loud laughter.) These daises could not possibly be understood by the House, and he very much doubted whether they were understood by the bench opposite.---( Continued laughter.) How, in the name of common sense, was the House to be called upon now to agree to the principle of the Bill ? They could not possibly have examined minutely into the principles. When Members rose upon his side of the House, their voices were drowned in the conversation of the Benches opposite—of Hon. Members opposite, who came there for no other purpose than to support the Noble Lord—( Cheers) — that was the only object for which they were there.—( Loud and reiterated cheering.) He put it to the House and the country, and he wanted it to go forth to the world, whether this was the proper manner of legislating ?—( Hear.) He would tell the Noble Lord that however he might manoeuvre in that House there would be justice done to the country in another. They called upon this House to pass a most important measure upon the suggestion of the Noble Lord. He cautioned the House most particularly not to trust to the suggestions of the Noble Lord, and not to put any faith upon the promise of a discus sion on the third reading.—(Laughter, and cries of " Oh !") That Bill had been throughout conducted with the same poli tical subtlety and hypocrisy which had characterised other Bills. Mr. C. BULLER postponed his motion fora Bill to pro vide a competent tribunal for the trial of controverted elec tions until Monday next. Mr. GRANTLY BERKELEY rose in pursuance of a motion of which he had given notice for the adaptation of a portion of the Strangers' Gallery to the accomodation of ladies. It might seem strange that such a motion was now proposed, for in former times, when people were less gallant than at present, even so long ago as 1761, ladies were not only allowed their places in the gallery, but were admitted to the seats beneath it. In the Irish Parliament House ladies were fully admitted, and in the House of Peers now, the ladies were allowed to take their seats on the most inte resting occasions; and he would ask why they should he ex cluded from the Lower House ?—( Hear.) lam well awar e continued the Hon. Gentleman, that there is an erroneous opinion entertained by a few, a very few, as to what is deemed the too great interference of Ladies already in the political world, and I have even heard of some men who are sufficiently selfish in their confined notions of lawful rule and right of su premacy, to say, that they ought to take no part therein ; but this narrow reasoning I deny. So long as a female head can singly wear the Crown of England let them not hold so false a doctrine. Are there any to be found hardy enough to asser t that the female portion of the population does not contain a vast share of the better intellect of the country, or that in very many instances it does not fall to their lot to think of, and to rule, the line of conduct which man in his more apparent wisdom may pursue ? And is it not often in their power (a power which no one can take from them) by their influence to decide a con tested election for county or town ? It is—there cannot be a doubt of it. Well, then, I ask the House if—as it cannot divest them of weight in matters over which their mental worth must ever give them sway—if it would not be better—if it would not be but an act of justice—to concede to them an op portunity of listening to a debate in an honoured situation, to which they are so thoroughly entitled ? Before the recent conflagration they had it in their power to preside over our political hemisphere, and I am not aware that the sittings of the House were later on that account ; then why not permit them a less lofty, but more comfortable accommodation ? I have been assured by one or two Right Hon. Members (but who, I trust, have too much gallantry really to oppose me), that the only reasons on which they hesitated as to whether they should support me or not were, that if the ladies were admitted, they feared that those gentlemen who could speak would always, and on every subject, be addressing themselves to the Gallery instead of to the legislative portion of the House, and that it would tend to lengthen the addresses, and increase the number of orators. To the first of these fears I have to say, that I much doubt now, whether, in some in stances, Hon. Members do not address themselves to those beyond the walls, or rather to the Galleries, instead of to the minds of those in actual deliberation. Did they not do so, some Right Hon., Learned, and Gallant Friends of mine would not persist in their speeches so long after they had become in reality tedious as twice told tales, vexing the dull ears of drowsy men, and obviously useless, from the fact that every Member in the House had long before made up his mind as to the vote which he should give. Again, I deny that it would be likely to increase the number of orators, for this reason :—lt strikes me that I have heard eight or ten words, indifferently delivered and applied within these walls, which, after a night's rest, or a journey into the country, became wonderfully refreshed and magnified, appearing in the papers, to the eyes of the admiring public, both male and female, not only of twenty or thirty lines' duration, but embellished with sundry cheers, teeming with wit, poetry, and pathos, and ending in a reception widely different from that which in my mistaken imagination I held them really to have received. I maintain, therefore, that such orators (if such there should still be)—whose speeches thrive from a few hours' rest, from a journey, or, with mushroom celerity, during the hours of darkness—that they would for their own sakes remain silent, in order that their female friends at least might still lean on the fond recollection that the power of former eloquence had not departed, but only slumbered till some more weighty call. Now, granting that from the presence of ladies the language of the House did assume a softer, a more poetical, and a more civil style, where would be the harm of this ? I will ask the House to look back upon the language and upon the general spirit of coarse personality which has at times dis tinguished the present session, and to declare whether there is not wide room for improvement, and whether the bitter tone that has at times been used could not be mitigated by the honey that could be infused by a better presence ? Why, I contend that had the Gallery, or part of it, been tenanted by Ladies, several Hon. Members of my acquaintance would never have had cause to allude to a breach of privilege, neither would a Right Hon. Friend of mine (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) have had sufficient obduracy of heart to have inflicted a speech of five hours' duration had he known that, for that time, he must have stormed the tympanum of the female ear. Ireland herself, though ever eloquent, were ladies present, might learn a happy lesson, and throw off the rough and angry heather of her mountains, and appear in the more quiet and acceptable, and far more persua sive and useful garb of her emerald vales. The sailor does not always reach the richest haven on the crest of the wildest wave, and violent language cannot persuade, while it must ever offend; or, to use the words of the Sovereign Elizabeth, " anger makes men witty, but it keeps them poor." I ques tion much if the admission of ladies would have any effect at all, save the grace that their countenance ever gives ; or, if it had, whether it would not confer more good than harm on the character of debates in general. 1 therefore ask permission to appoint a Select Committee to consider and report upon the best means of setting apart and adapting a portion of the Strangers' Gallery for the admittance of ladies during the de bates of this House ; such admittance to be granted or regu lated according to such form and manner as the Speaker shall appoint. Also that directions be given with a view to the same effect in the building of the new House of Commons. A dozen Hon. MENIBEUS started up to second the motion ; but we believe Mr. FaaNcii obtained the enviable distinction of doing so. The question having been put from the Chair, the sound of the " ayes" shook the walls of the House. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, without entering at all into the merits of the question, would merely observe that he could not acquiesce in the motion, because in his opinion, if it were deemed advisable to adopt the proposition for the admittance of ladies during the debates, it would be much better that the House should do itself the honour of adopting it, instead of referring it to the consideration of a select committee. More over, a select committee appeared to be quite unnecessary, as the Hon. Member for Gloucestershire had moved that the Speaker should appoint the form and manner in which the ladies should be admitted. The gallery was then cleared for a division. For the motion Against it Majority for the ladies The announcement of the number was received with voci ferous cheers. On our return to the gallery, Mr. BERKELEY was read ing the names of the Committee amidst great confusion and noise occasioned by the shouts of laughter with which some of the names were received. The mirth of the House was loudly renewed, when, during the appointment of the Committee the Hon. Member made the proposition, which was instantly acceded to, that the names of Mr. Pryme and Mr. Pease should be added to the list. The following was the Committee appointed : Ber keley, Hon. G. C. Cowper, Hon. W. I. Norreys, Lord Bagshaw, John Donkin, Sir It. O'Connell, D. Beauclerk, Major Eaton, Richard J. Dssulston, Lord Bernal, H. Elley, Sir J. I'arrott, J. Berkeley, C. Ewart, W. Pease, Joseph Berkeley, F. }ancourt, C. S. J. Pechell, G. R. Buller, C. Forrester, Hen. C. Polhill, Frederick Bruce, C. L C. Gore, W.O. Pryme, G. Carter, J. B. Hume, Joseph Tracey, C. H. Chaudos, Marquis of Milton, Viscount Worcester, hlarq. of Chetwyml, W. F. FEMALE EMIGRATION. Mr. CHARIESIUSHINGTON postponed until Thurs day next, his motion respecting female emigration to Australia. MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. On the motion of Mr. ARTHUR TREVOR, a Return was ordered to be laid before the House of the sums of money voted to the College of Maynooth during the last five years, the number of Professors employed therein, and their respec tive salaries. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL. On the motion (as we believe) for postponing the order of the day for the further consideration of the Report of the Im prisonment for Debt Bill, Mr. HAVES represented the great importance of the sub ject, and hoped that an early day would be fixed for proceed ing with the Bill. The ATTORNEY. GENERAL declared that he was most desirous to proceed with it; he bad done everything in his power to expedite the proceeding - and with the concurrence of his Noble Friend, he would take the earliest op. 21 the subject. POST-OFFICE. Lord . - LOWT - H - Er(ii4e tuiderstood), on the suggestion. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. Lord MORPETH brought up certain papers ordered by the House relative to general education in Ireland. Mr. GL AD STONE wished to know whether those papers contained a return of the number of Roman Catholic and Pro testant children. _ Lord MORPETH replied that the papers presented all the information required by the House which the Commis sioners had power to give, for they were unable to discover specifically of what religious persuasion the children were in the several religious schools, and they thought it went beyond their province to endeavour to ascertain them from private sources. Mr. GLADSTONE could not understand how the Com missioners, after having expended five or six months in their inquiry, should not be able to give that information. The Commissioners ought not to be judges of vl.at was expedient. Lord AIO R PETIT replied that they were not judges cf expediency certainly, but they were unable to acquire the in formation, and therefore they did not give it. Mr. GLADSTONE thought they might very easily enquire of what religion every body was. Sir H. H ARDIN GE said that when Commissioners could not furnish the required information, they ought to mention it, and when a Member, who moved for certain returns, found them to be incomplete, he had a right to move those returns be amended. Lord MORPETH agreed that Commissioners ought to state, if they were unable to gain the required information, that they could not do so ; but it remained to be seen whether that was the case in the present instance or not. Mr. GRATTAN said it was not so easy a matter to ascer tain the religious principles of every party, and in the case of the police it was found necessary to go over the business again and again before they could approach to any certainty. He should be glad to see the time come when there would be no more questions as to religious opinions.—(Cheers.) YORK AND YARMOUTH ELECTION COM MITTEE. Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought that it had been agreed at the adjournment of the House the other night, that the nomination of the Committee in these cases, should be postponed. The Hon. Member for Ipswich had requested him, as the Right Hon. Bart. the Mem ber for Tamworth had done with respect to the Committee for the York and Yarmouth elections, to appoint the Committee on the Ipswich Election ; at that time he had stated that it was an unpleasant duty -to perform, but, nevertheless, he would do so. Having appointed that Committee, he thought it but right that he should accede to appointing the present one. In doing so, he had not followed the ex ample of the Hon. Member for Ipswich, but he had fol lowed the rule laid down, that those who had taken an active part in the debate, should not be placed as Members of the Committee. He did not agree with the Hon. Member for Ipswich that it would be desirable to place persons on the Committee connected with the towns of York and Yarmouth—( Hear, hear)—but he concurred with those Members who had suggested that a less number of Members than those appointed on the Ipswich Committee would be most likely to do justice betweeen the par ties. He should, therefore, propose a more limited Committee than was appointed on that occasion. Instead of 11 Mem bers, he should propose 9 only, and he trusted that the Committee would adopt the rule laid down by the Ipswich one for themselves, of attending punctually from day to day to dis charge their duties.—(Hear, hear.) He proposed that five Members should make a quorum, and that if any mem ber of the Committee should be absent, the Committee should report his name to the House—( Cheers)—in order that it might have an opportunity of discharging him from his at tendance.--(Hear, hear.) He thought that the Members forming the Committee should be exempted from attendance on Ballots, but he could not but advert to the loose manner in which Committees conducted their business, their reports being made when only two or three Members were present.— He should propose the following gentlemen as Members of the Committee :—Mr. Pease, Mr. Mark Phillips, Sir John Yarde Buller, Mr. Young of Cavan, Mr. Tancred, Mr. Elphinstone, Mr. Hardy, Mr. Nicholl, and Lord F. Egerton. MUNICIPAL REFORM BILL. The NOBLE LORD, after some observations, which were in audible, said that there were two courses which might be taken with this Bill. He thought the course they ought to adopt and which he meant to propose was, that those motions of which notice had been given on the Report being brought up should be taken on the re-commitment of the Bill, or they might take ano ther course which would be more convenient to him, but which he would not propose to the House unless they were ready to adopt it—it was to take all the amend ments as amendments to clauses on the third reading. He proposed this evening to re-commit the Bill, and, with one or two exceptions, he meant to adhere to the Bill as it was. He went into Committee merely for the purpose of giving those Gentlemen who had amendments to propose an opportunity of doing so. Sir R. VYVY AN—This most important Bill had now been read twice, and had gone through Committee, and was now about to be reported without any argu ment either in defence of the principle of the Bill or against it.—( Cries of "Oh 1" and cheers.) He could in form new Members that, after ten years' experience, he had never witnessed a Bill of so much importance go into Committee without the principle being discussed—(" Oh 1 ") It was his intention to bring the whole question before the House and the country, and he would shew that the Mouse was about to violate a great principle of the Constitution, and to take away privileges hitherto considered sacred. He would avail himself of an occasion to bring the whole discussion before the House upon the presentation of a petition from 2,000 of the freemen of Bristol.. Lord J. RUSSELL, when he brought forward the Bill, stated the grounds upon which ho rested his claims to support. He proposed the second reading in the manner in which it was usually done.—( Hear.) It was not his fault if he did not an swer the objections made on that occasion, for no objections were wade. Uncleibtedly any on Member had a right of Lord John Russell, postponed his motion respecting the Post-office. BOROUGH OF STAFFORD. - Mr. WYNN, adverting to the continued suspension of the writ for the borough of Stafford, remonstrated against the unconstitutional practice of suspending the issue of writs, except under circumstances of a most imperative nature. He did hope that the Noble Lord opposite would feel that it was very unfitting that the House of Commons should from time to time put off this proceeding. It was most unjustifiable to sus pend the proceeding until near the end of the session, and thereby not allow the House sufficient time for its due consi deration. He was far from imputing any want of attention to the Hon. Gentleman who had the management of the Stafford Borough Bill ; but he really must complain of the delay. Mr. DIVETT would be very glad to avail himself of the first open day to proceed with the measure. The writ must of course be suspended as long as there was a chance of passing the Bill. Sir R. PEEL thought it would be better to fix some day positively for the purpose of proceeding with the Bill. As two important subjects were appointed for Monday—the Irish Church question and the Municipal Corporations Bill—per haps it would be well to fix Tuesday as the day on which the Stafford Borough Bill should positively come on. Lord J. RUSSELL acquiesced in the Right Hon. Ba ronet's view, and thought it should be understood that the Bill should come on the first thing on Tuesday. After some further discussion, which was not audible in the Gallery, it was, we believe, finally agreed that the Stafford Borough Bill should be brought on on Monday next. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS' BILL. Sir R. VYVYAN begged to ask the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General what course he intended to pursue with re. spect to the Ecclesiastical Courts' Bill? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied that it was his in tention to move the second reading of that Bill on the earlies day possible. DIVISION LISTS. Mr. D. W. HARVEY wished to take that opportunity of asking the Hon. Member for St. Albans what progress had been made towards the completion of any plan by which the divisions of that House might be taken by authority ? When he said that Members had reason to complain of the imper fect manner in which the lists were now made out, he al luded particularly to the motion brought forward by the Hon. Member for Ipswich (Mr. Wason) the other night for referring the Great Yarmouth petition to a Select Com mittee. Those Gentlemen who entered the House only at the sound of a bell, and who took no part in the debate, perhaps had no great reason to complain of any inaccu racy that might occur. But to those Gentlemen who attend ed a debate of four or five hours duration, the greater part of which, in all probability, had no bearing whatever upon the subject in hand—an attendance which imposed no slight tax upon their time and patience—he thought it was too much, on such occasions, to find that their names were wholly omitted from the list of the division. He (Mr. Harvey) had attended the debate Tuesday from the beginning to the end ; he had been in the House from the commencement of its sitting until the debate on the Great Yarmouth petition was concluded, and yet he had aftewards the mortification to find that, by some accident or other, his name was wholly omitted from the list of the division. Under these circumstances, he trusted that the Hon. Member for St. Albans, who had brought forward a mo tion upon the subject, would not relax in his exertions to bring forward some specific plan by which an inconvenience of which all had reason► to complain, might speedily be removed. Mr. WARD begged to remind the Hon. Gentleman that he (Mr. Ward) had for some time past left the matter entirely in the hands of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche quer. He bad applied to that Right Hon. Gentleman upon the subject the other day, and was informed that the Right Hon. Gentleman had prepared an estimate which it would shortly be in his power to lay upon the table of the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made an observation, but in too low a tone to be heard in the gallery. ENGLISH TITHE BILL. Mr. HODGES gave notice that on the motion for going into Committee of Supply to-morrow evening, he should take the opportunity of asking what course his Majesty's Ministers intended to take with respect to the English Tithe Bill. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL. On the question that the Order of the day for the House re solving itself into Committee on this Bill be read, Sir W. FOLLETT presented a petition against the Bill, very numerously signed, from the City of Exeter. On the question being again put, Sir F. TRENCH rose to direct the attention of the House to certain observations attributed to an Hon. Member whom he saw opposite (Mr. Cayley), and which, if really uttered by that Hon. Member, amounted, in his (Sir F. Trench's) estimation, to an abuse of the privilege of speech allowed to all Members of the House within the walls of the House. The observations to which he alluded were made about a week since, and had re ference to the borough of Scarborough, of which he (Sir F. Trench) had the honour to be the Representative. They were couched in these terms : " Before going into Committee on the Municipal Reform Bill, he (Mr. Cayley) begged to call the attention of his Noble Friend below him to the circumstance of the existing corporations having, since the introduction of this Bill, entered upon the practice of letting out corporate lands, and other property, on long leases ; of course on ad vantageous terms, and for which, one day or another, they would have an equivalent, at the expense of the interests of their trust. One instance of this kind he had heard of as taking place in his own constituency, namely—the borough of Scarborough, where he understood that they had never been in the habit of leasing out the corporate property. He had heard this on very good authority ; and if it were true, it demanded the immediate interposition of the House, in order to render null and void any bargains of this na ture. It appeared to him a gross contempt of the pro ceedings of this House, and he hoped his Noble Friend would not fail to institute a remedy." Now he (Sir F. Trench) ,was prepared to assert that the whole of that statement was utterly and entirely unfounded ; and if the Hon. Gentleman to whom it was attributed had taken the trouble, which every man who ventured to make such a statement was hound to do, of first ascertaining the accuracy of the information upon which his observations were founded, he would have seen—( Here the Speaker interposed, but it was impossible to collect the purport of his observations.) He ( Sir F. Trench) was always ready to bow with deference to the suggestions or decisions of the Chair. He would not say another word upon the point to which the Speaker had referred ; but in justice to the body which he had the honour of representing, he must beg to be allowed to make a short quotation from the Report of the Corporation Commissioners. Speaking of the Corporation of Scarborough, they said " upon an examination of all the circumstances, it appears to us that the transaction was not to be impeached ;" and yet, in the face of that declaration on the part of the Commissioners, the Hon. Gentleman opposite presumed to make use of language stigmatising a body of honourable men who were as in capable of improperly applying public funds entrusted to their charge as the Hon. Gentleman himself.--(Hear.) He (Sir F. Trench) maintained that no Member of Parliament ought to presume to abuse his privilege of speech in that House in order to throw out utterly unfounded insinuations ac'aiiist individuals. In the present instance, he contended that the Hon. Gentleman opposite, before he brought the sub ject forward, ought, first of all, to have read the Report of the Commissioners, and, in the next place, should have made in quiries of certain parties before he presumed to pronounce what he ( Sir F. Trench) considered a libel in that House. He had thus expressed boldly and freely, he hoped not dis courteously, the opinions which he entertained upon the sub ject, He left it to the Hon. Gentleman to refute them if he could. Mr. CA YLE Y immediately rose, but spoke in so low atone of voice as to be scarcely audible in the gallery. We under stood him to state, that he certainly was under some misap prehension when he made the statement to which the Hon. Gentleman had referred, for he had since understood, from the best authority, that instead of one case of the kind he had de scribed having taken place, a great many instances of a similar character had occurred. Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE thought that Hon. Gen tlemen should be very careful how they made statements upon the representation of defeated, and, consequently, disappointed parties. It appeared to him that his Hon. Colleague (Mr. Cayley) ought in common fairness, before be read extracts from a private letter, which, for aught the House knew, might be anonymous, to explain the grounds on which he made his statement. He thought that his Gallant Friend (Sir T. Trench) had expressed only a natural warmth at the manner in which his constituents had been attacked • and from all he had heard upon the subject he very much doubted whether it would be in the power of his Hon. Colleague (Mr. Cayley) to prove the charges he bad brought forward. At all events, the House ought to pause before it lent its attention to such ex parte statements. Mr. CA YLEY begged to state that the letter he had re ceived was from an association composed of part of the electors of Scarborough. Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE—If that association had any thing to lay before Parliament, it ought to have been in the form of a petition. After a few words from Sir F. TRENCH, the matter dropped. The Order of the day was then read, Lord JO HN RUSSELL said that in moving that the Bill be then recommitted, it was not his intention to go into any of the details of it. All that he wished to state was, that he thought the recommittal of the Bill would afford a more con venient opportunity of introducing the amendments of which notice had been given, than could possibly occur in the bring ing up of the Report. He trusted, therefore, that those Hon. Gentlemen who had given notice of motions on the bringing up of the Report, would bring them forward in Committee ; or, if not prepared to take that course, would allow the Report to be received and bring them forward on the third reading. Upon that understanding he would move that the Bill be recommitted. After a few words from Sir R. INGLIS the House re solved itself into a Committee. In the 6th clause, which enacts that occupiers of houses and shops rated in three years to the relief of the poor shall be entitled to be enrolled as burgesses, if resident house holders within seven miles ; but to which this proviso is at tached, " provided that no person shall be so enrolled in any year who, within twelve calendar months next before the said last day of August, shall have received parochial relief or other alms, or other pension or charitable allowance from any fund intrusted to the charitable trustees of such borough," Mr. HUGHES proposed tti insert certain words to pre vent the extension of disqualification to persons who might have received money from charitable funds by way of loan. It was not just that persons who might receive assistance in that way should be regarded as paupers. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not think the inser tion of the words proposed by the Honourable Member at all necessary, because; as . the clause then - stood, a loan - of money - - would not be considered in the nature of a charitable a l .- lowance. After some discussion, the amendment was negatived with out a division, and the other clause agreed to. Mr. BORT H WIC K had been anticipated by the Honour able Member for Oxford ; for it had been his intention to move an amendment on the 6th clause.—( Go on, go on.) He begged to move then, from line 1 in clause 6 the word " male" be omitted. The Committee then immediately divided— Ayes 69 Noes 135 Majority —66 Mr. BAINE S proposed that in the Bth clause, which enacts that occupiers of premises may claim to be rated, and vote accordingly, for the Borough Council, though the assessment is paid by the landlord, that there should be introduced, after the words "on payment of the full amount of all such rates due in respect of such premises," to add the words , 4 o r the composition charged thereon in the Poor's Assessment books , " as in many parishes landlords paid the assessments for their tenants on receiving an allowance for taking upon themselves the trouble and responsibility of paying these rates, and as some of the Revising Barristers under the Reform Act had struck off the names of persons so circumstanced from the list of voters for Members of Parliament, he apprehended that the same course might be taken under the Municipal Registratio n Act, if words to the effect that he now proposed to the Com mittee were not introduced. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he was aware that decisions of the nature described by the Hon. Member for Leeds had been come to under the Reform Act, and that similar objec tions might be made under this Act, but as the remedy to s always in the hands of the persons who paid the rates, an d as the alteration contended for would introduce a new and an objectionable principle into the Bill, he must resist that alteration. Mr. WILKS, Mr. YOUNG, and Mr. JOHN PARKER COHCUIIed in the view of this subject taken by Lord John Russell. Mr. BAINES said that as the right of voting had been granted to the tenant on his name being inserted on the rate', books, though the landlord paid the rates, and as the feeling 01 the House appeared to be against the proposed alteration, b e should withdraw his amendment, for nothing could be more distant from his wish than to retard for a moment the progres s of a measure, which as a whole had his warm approbation. Clause 10. Mr. PR AE D rose to bring forward a proposition bearing materially on the provisions of the Bill, as they were likely to affect the constituency established by the Reform Act. HC should propose to give to the Mayor. Town-Clerk, and Coup; cil of the Corporations to be established, the power of doing all that might legally be done by the Mayor, Town-Clerk, an d Council of the old Corporations, with a view to continuing, or bestowing the rights of burgesses at elections ; and that all le; dividuals who would under the old system have been entitled to become burgesses, should be qualified on application to the Mayor, Town- Clerk, and Council of such boroughs, to vote for Members of Parliament; and he proposed also to give then' the same remedies against any obstruction of that right as 00 before possessed. He begged to propose an amendment t° the effect be had already stated. The question having been put, Colonel SIBTHORP objected to the poor man being robbed of the little right remaining to him by an Act vrhi c " was nothing more nor less than a gross violation o f the compact made by the Reform Bill. He would not troubl, the House further, but by his vote on the Bill he shou t certainly seal his feelings.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) Mr. ROBINSON wanted to know what the House, in th e discussion of that measure, had to do with the Parliamenta r y franchise at Hear, hear.) When motions had been made in that House for the establishment of the ballot, and tri ennial Parliaments, they had been always met by the Nob le Lord with the argument that tEe Reform Bill was a final nice' sure. He asked the Noble Lord how he could reconcile tl this often-repeated declaration with such an extensive alter e. tion in the franchise of the country as he now proposed.' (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had admitted that the r t e , tention of the rights of freemen by the Reform Bill was in t' nature of a compromise, to induce the House of Lords ," sanction the Bill. He ( Mr. Robinson) would ask, theti, t l it it was fair that the compromine should be broken throng or that this indirect plan should be adopted to get rid of enactment which had been solemnly guaranteed by the R e ' form Bill. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said his reason for giving t ile franchise in Corporations to householders, instead of cont' ll ; ing it to these small bodies, was because the - smaller and pore' body of freemen were more accessible to bribery and eorrej tion than the general body of householders.—( Hear, hea r :' If it was thought that the poor ought to have more influenv'e and sway over the deliberations of the House of Commons , 11 , thought that it would be a better plan if all housebold e i should be allowed to vote on the return of a Member Oti Parliament than that the franchise should be c ontinu e d to the freemen, because the householders were not so lia ble corruption as those small bodies. But he argued that the e feet of this Bill was not to alter the Reform Bill. 'They itt lt° ;, duced this Bill for the purpose of effecting a reform of the Col porate bodies of the country, and in regulating the corp o Z rights a new and distinct right of 'voting was created. 4 ; 1 ; 0 consequence was, that those persons who now exercised rights of freemen, would no longer exist, and there would therit fore be no persons to exercise the right s w hi c h th e y a t prese, n enjoyed, and the rights consequently fell to the g round•j ae ( Hear, hear.) There w ere th ree mo d es o f exercising the elective franchise, of which it was necessary that one should, adopted. The first was that proposed by this Bill, by wh' c f one qualification was required which should give the right; voting at the election of corporate officers, and another qua d { cation which should give the right of voting at the election "0 a Member o f Parliament. His (Lord John Russell's) opin i° was that by adopting this plan a good body of elector:: both for corporate officers and for Members of Parliareel l t would be created.--( Hear, hear.) Another mode was th eo a r the new burgesses should have the privilege of voting 1, 11, Members of Parliament, as well as the 10/. house-hol de ', He acknowledged that this would be a logical propos ing by It was quite competent for any Hon. Member to a sk ' o should those rights not be given to the new burg er it , which had been exercised by the old burgesses?—He ted this would be quite a logical proposition, and the u'd way he had of meeting it was, that it was not a matter St policy or expediency that this plan should be adopted, and upon the whole, as they were electing a new body of buof gesses, it would be better to exclude those small bodies.,,l freemen from exercising the franchise. Then came the mode—the plan proposed by the Hon. and Learned Mein,a c l for Yarmouth, and that plan he (Lord John Russell) 1411 ,`" ) say was at variance both with policy and simplicity.—(Ch ee ";el Nothing could be more anomalous than the body prop 1- 0 ( by the Hon. and Learned Member to be allowed the nigh et franchise. The Hon. Member himself allowed that t-d were not fit to be members of the Corporations to be for a ' y under the Bill, yet he would have them to be allowed e.„, pressly to vote in the election of Members of Parliameotior ( Hear, hear.) He thought that there was nothing so peec ti a is in the situation of those freemen as to induce them to re se, them.---( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Worcester I , l to said, that as he (Lord John Russell) had once consented of continue the rights of freemen to them, those rights ouelt now to be taken away. If the present was a mere questioad, to whether the Reform Bill ought or ought not to be alto the he would not feel inclined to meddle with tbe rights of co freemen, although he thought that that class was more l o t to bribery and corruption than any other class of electors; t he as they were now about to create a new corporate right , c i, case was altered, and he felt bound to vote against any an ie o ibos ment which would have the effect of continuing the frat le in the hands of this class of voters.—( Cheers.) Sir R. PEEL said that when the Noble Lord stated t i ri; the effect of this Bill was not to alter the Reform Act, he 0 not adhere so duly to the facts of the case as he would h as ; ,d believed. In fact the Noble Lord was guilty of a great , e o b, ingenious piece of sophistry.—( Cheers, and cries of no t oh I") Now what lie ( Sir R. Peel) complained of was , "ja that the Reform Act was altered in this particular, but tb at making the alteration the Noble Lord did not come for o to distinctly and avowedly to do so.---( Cheers. ) If - the N u e , Lord meant to take away from the freemen the right of eta cising the elective franchise, why not come forward dit e i el and avowedly, and move an amendment upon the Reforn l to that effect ? If the Noble Lord thought that the freeT e if were corrupt, and ought, therefore, to be deprived of t, e t, elective franchise, he ought to bring forward a motion to t hat iO , feet manfully and avowedly but he ought not indirectly toolly, terfere so materially with what they had been taught to Co cider a final settlement of the elective franchise—a settle final which no one was more anxious should be cons idered. ) than the Noble Lord himself.—( Hear, and loud cheerllfb's The Noble Lord admitted that he had made use of th e expressions—that he would perpetuate the rights freemen.—( Hear.) That expression escaped with the " - a if tual candour and openness for which the Noble li' lr ge• remarkable.—( Cheers.) A fine specimen of candour. - ice newed cheers.) Now this perpetuation of the rights of e d, men was proposed in June, 1831, and was finally coil; r iir He knew that there was nothing in the decision of one Pa t hat ment which could fetter a future Parliament. He kne e to ts one Parliament could not tic up the deliberations of a Parliament, or to say that what they did was final and P a n der tual ; but if at the period when the Reform Bill wa s ' j es t consderation it was in the contemplation of the G0ver1,1401,50 to alter that clause upon which the consent of the other Poi( was obtained, it was their duty to have said that it was n at ,, intention that the rights of freemen should be perpetuate ll' that at the suitable season they would alter that part of thCr ot oe —(Hear, hear.) Acting as they had done, they left the Pude of Lords, the country, and the freemen themselves , , 0 the impression that the rights of those persons wer e of perpetuated under this second charter of the freedStge the country.—( Cheers.) What was posted up in every.% ;7/ in the Kingdom while the Bill was under considerat'uo ty! Was it not that nothing would satisfy the country, b ut , )11 Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill."—(Cheer-nsposs ( Sir Robert Peel) had always prophesied that the P t col for a modification of the Reform Bill would p r obablY Ge e, from those who had been the authors of it.—(B en a tb e j cheers.) The first edition of the Reform Bill reserve,,,o_ right of freemen simply during their lives; but the na 17' edition of the Bill had this provision—" Provided also, ' c ol; it enacted, that notwithstanding anything hereinhefuleti e , tained, every person now having a right to veto in al u . ar for any city or borough in virtue of any, corporate rig-10070 take up his freedom in virtue of any corporate right , tc , child of a freeman, such child being .born pre.vlo ll s 4 -ire" passing of this Act, and every apprentice bound tO4 l O -,. Pt{ man previously to the passing of this Act, which c prentit:e would have been entitled to vote in such 0 7 0 this Act had not been passed, shall respectively ,r,.;octiii quire, and enjoy such right of voting during their J.,efL e ol l ' lives, and shill be entitled to' std; trdtlV regiiceicu) 9'l" ing ti peare rights that ri inchoi ill C( rights furthe vation vided doer o the rig the el( such v, passim That I tembei Lord, which Lord 1 The cl but ex( and n( freedo t procee, could provisii the ofehicn burl nrfiriottr. e the t e notary Did y esai .1(( not adn th, troduc ( those e ruption that it had b e( a Party bel ong( had so duced 1 the erg —and 1 the c ou chart er found tl Th e N, who i n t great e such s y i Frie n d, of whicl t would d had s a k bribe r y pricedinvestig but it w the Nob dOW of without being so corrupti, case of been as heem th e only . had bee ; Pored tion for th e 101. men haC fre emen Ro n . E a Mr. w . Pool, an , t aiaated mittee.- attl 'air tl sfPeetablt or aCribed a VOt satisfied, I neo of 90/. eact thoughtOnl 2/ 'ept off; hue elec t he 1 hands wa appeared (Sir R . of freem hittin g classes pi for th ey .. ah ,9 l red t ,„. .. Ate of he could Besid es rights as to attach He w i sh( sion of t chile, be With res °PPose t to prop o! existence He was I out the ing the town. / Lord, thi right. I era of sue intrusted served a however, suffrage t that a ma li bt°besgi rn etps r e hioelr e reeweo:at r w iphhdplsnu latlla w i ohnildod s alds a :::e s . pub E ci trbdlnte: a ( i. H • otr t he e tetnhh.ae r ep i n its g .t a h_ aitr t ri, stances, t right, he i e. dof,tt hear. urC l ov h r t a n ewe il l a n s f e b r t cl intat , sho u ld ao t u tti t : b B h re° )ll. ee. saw purpose Lodhtastsulfoeilielt.ntr, Purp ose I Mr. A . to his Ri g years he- I) I 1. ,gent and of beir a nd oonfm l bg a sin g several mi to order, t2 . l . tive th e tend that :0044, ha h o b: Minis, rt.Y, all e ssive a _ 1 2 , the barn: dent by their tak; hether th our u th C. tar - th Hear, h a ' , ear h R ight eache s, Hoi e m ind, , e ltsed . V s ry ; the ful lY b r en (Lo u d eh ,.. in 34:"} inu t eei i saur i t ara . lB: h ir t :se l e ritae.t r e a r f araesn o o re . tr o 'dt r r ka: l ( tent th e ar Ho H ~ t .000, . " Oo ti ,Ight Wheth e he tti wi th th g ti, t Ri th ey w „ colt ift,9ls 4,901