The Sun. — London, England, 1848-06-17 00:00:00

iMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, June 16. Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. FOREIGN ACTORS. The Earl of FITZHARDINGE presented a petition from Mr. Webster, the lessee of the Theatre Royal Hay market, and from the persons, 210 in number, engaged at the Lyceum, complaining of the support given to fo reign artists. They did not object to the original Italian Opera, or to the French performances at the St. James's, but they complained that there was now an Italian Opera at Covent-garden supported by foreign artists, and an attempt had been made to introduce foreign artists at Drury-lane. He reprehended the infamous attempt made to put down the French performance at Drury-lane, and Mr. Webster and the other respectable members of the dramatic profession authorised him to express their disgust at the attempts which had been made to put down the French performances at Drury lane by force. The petitioners complained that the Theatres Royal Drury-lane and Covern-garden, which had been licensed for the performances exclusively of the English drama, had been let for the performance of foreign dramas, by foreign performers, and praying the House to adopt means to do justice to English performers, and to restrict foreign performances to those theatres already licensed for such performances. Lord BEAUMONT considered that the petition was conceived in an illiberal spirit. They were not able to produce pieces which would fill their houses, and they wished to prevent others from doing so. Lord BROUGHAM could not support the prayer of the petition. He considered that native talent had no right whatever to protection against foreign talent. If, then, French performers had not come to Drury-lane it would have been shut up, and 200 English workmen would have been thrown out of employ. He entirely agreed with the Noble Earl, in expressing his disgust at the:conduct of those who had created the disturbances at Drury-lane. After a few words from the Earl of GLENGALL, The Duke of CLEVELAND expressed his surprise at finding the name of Mr. Webster attached to these petitions, That gentleman had for years conducted the Haymarket Theatre with great talent and great tact, and he thought it was impossible that any foreign com petition could injure a manager of such tact and an artist of such talent as Mr. Webster. He was sorry that these petitions had been brought forward, and he hoped they would be withdrawn. After a few words from Earl SPENCER, Lord BEAUMONT explained that he had been both to the Lyceum and the Haymarket, and had seen in each theatre a bad translation of a French piece. He preferred the original to a bad translation; but so soon as Shakespere should be properly represented he would frequent the theatre. The petitions were then laid on the table. PETITIONS. The Norms Eaiu. then presented a petition from Bris tol, against any alteration in the navigation-laws. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions against the Scotch Registration Bill. • CORN-LAWS. Lord STANLEY, in calling the attention of the Go vernment and Parliament to the present state of the ot im portation of foreign corn, begged to say that he had not modified his opinions upon the subj ect of protection to British agriculture, but he did not t hen wish to invite their Lordships' attenticn to it . During the general distress and dissatisfaction which had prevailed it had been observed that it was well the corn-laws were not in existence to aggravate it. It was not, however, a very happy remark, for there was in existence at this mo ment a corn-law, under the operation of which duties on the importation of foreign corn, and especially wheat, were in process of payment considerably more than were paid during the existence of the corn-law in 1846. Upon the repeal of the old corn-law a temporary mea sure was introduced, which was intended to operate for two years, and to be similar in principle to that which it abolished—namely, en the principle of the sliding-scale. Under the operation of that te m p orary law a ° duty was now paid on the importation of .wheat of 9s. a quarter ; and after the two years during which this experiment was to be tried it would be for Parliament to determine whether any modification of the law should be made. Tile failure of the potato crop rendered it de sirable that no duty should stand in the way of a tempo rary importation of provisions ; but in consequence of that general opinion and the temporary law which was enacted, limited of having had the experience of two years as to the operation of the moderate sliding-scale, they had only had the experience of little more than three months—namely, from the lit of March last. If Par liament should, therefore, close at the end of July or the beginning of August they would only have had the ex perience of about five months, and before the meeting of Parliament the Act would expire. A short time ago he moved for a return of all grain, meal, and flour, im ported into the United Kingdom since the Ist of March, 1848, the period at which the temporary duty was re vived, and also for the month previous, commencing on the Ist of February, with the amount of duty re ceived during each week. This return was for a period of eleven weeks only ; and during that period, under the operation of a duty from 7s. to 95., there had been brought into consumption 993,348 quarters of wheat, of which there were 193,000—say 200,000 quarters—which, having been imported. previously to the Ist of March, did not pay the duty. But upon 800,000 quarters there had been paid duty in eleven weeks amounting to 127,9301. Now, supposing he took the amount of duty received during the eleven weeks, and, assuming that it formed a fair average of the year's consumption of fo reign corn, that consumption would give a revenue amounting for the year U 1.604,7601.; and if he might fairly take into calculation the additional fifth which had been brought into consumption, though it had not paid duty, the amount would be 755, 9471. in the year. It was to the financial part of the question that he wished to draw the attention of the Government, because here was a duty not causing any dissatisfaction, not aggravating the price of the food of the people, and bringing into the revenue, at a time of deep depression and defalcation (and it must be remembered paid by the foreign importer), a sum of money amounting to nearly three-quarters of a million in a year, which they were about, unless Parliament should interpose ifs the present session, absolutely to throw away, and deprive the Exchequer of three-quarters of a million in the next year. A moat important fact was that this duty had been realised without affecting the price of corn. During the month of February there had been no duty, or merely a nominal one; but on the Ist of March there was a duty of 75.; and it would na turally be supposed that the price had then risen. Wheat had fallen from 51s. 2d. to 50s. 2d. in February, and oats and barley had also fallen in proportion; and in the week subsequent to the 7s. duty being put on the price of wheat was identically the same—namely, 50s. 2d. The same observation applied to all other grain except rye, in which there was a trifling rise in price. And during the whole time since the duties had been in operation, from the Ist of March to the 20th of May, when the *turn closed, the price of corn had fallen.— (Hear, hear.) He thought, therefore, that he was justi fied in saying that this amount of duty had been levied without being the cause of an increase of price or a pressure on the consumer here, and that what had been gained was at the expense of the foreign importer.— (Hear, hear.) Well, then, had the effect been to check and;discourage importation? So far from it, a consider able increase had taken place in the quantity of corn imported. In the first four weeks there were altogether brought into consumption 97,000 qrs.; but in the last four weeks up to the 20th of May the quantity had in creased to 141,000 qrs. The amount of duty realised in the first four weeks had been 12,4441.; but in the last four weeks it had been 46,689/.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the state of things; and although he did not wish to make any motion, he thought it was his duty at this period of the session, and in the p resent state of the finances of the country, to call the attention of the Government to the fact; because, unless they interposed the by some step, this lar g e amount of incomewould be wholly lost from the Ist of February next to re venue, which was now suffering from a state of great de pression, and without producing the slightest corre sponding benefit to a n y human being.—(Hear, h ear.) The period at which it was most important that there should be an importation of foreign corn was in the winter months, because it was harder than our gra i n and most useful to mix with it. In the months o f November, December , a nd January, it was most re quired ; but with the pr os p ect of the duty 7s. being taken off on the Ist of February, 1849, it was li c quit© clear that a direct impedime nt would be placed ea in the way of the introduction of fore i g n corn. —(.)' No general Bill could be introduced int o their Lordshipsr House on the subject, but he asked the Government w4ther it would not be in accordance with sound policy and their own sense of public duty, that a short Bill should be introduced to allow the existing duties as they now stood to be continued for five or six months, which would enable Parliament to meet together again, and not with the experience of six months, but of a whole year, consider whether it would not be desirable to continue so small a duty which returned so large a revenue ; and even if the Bill were extended for a longer period, to give Parliament time for further consi deration, he did not think her Majesty's Govern thent could be taunted with inconsistency; be cause, although they gave their consent to the Bill for the abolition of the corn-laws, the Whig Goverment more than once contemplated a •o• or Bs. dury, He was of opinion that the operation of a sliding-scale was more advantageous than a fixed duty ; yet he confessed, as between a fixed duty of Bs., and a duty fluctuating from 10s. as a maximum to 4s. a minimum, the continuance of such a measure could not justlk subject the Government to any charge of inceniistency • and he ho ed the Government would state whether they thought such a course would not be desirable. Earl GREY said he had heard with great surprise, and also with so Noble Friend, because satisfaction, the speech of his been to prove that au as:3l the object of that speech had sake of protection, hot uteo f levied on corn, not for the approxi mating to a fixed duty_th a t ve a nu d e u — ty aodf suchade scription which, h e said, did not, intheslightesthtest de groe, raise the price of corn to it produced a large sum to the treasury was a measure of great i t nportance.—(Hear, hear.) He was bound to say that the facts upon which his Noble Friend founded his statements were a little too narrow to warrant the conclusions at which he had arrived. He thought ho had neglected to take into consideration many circum stances and facts which had occurred within the last few weeks, and his Noble Friend was, moreover, entirely in stror in believing that when the Act of 1846 was pasted, deferring the period when free trade in corn should take place, that such a measure was contemplated on the ground of its beitg an experimental one, for the real object was to make a gradual change, and let down the farmer as easy as they could. The Duke of ttICHMOND—Hear, hear; "let down the farmer."—(Laughter.) Earl GREY (in continuation) said—He was not using his own phrase—(lm, hear)—because he always thought it would be better for the farmer and the coun try generally, that such a measure should be passed. — (Hear, hear.) He might however ask, to whom it was that the country owed it that they did not possess at this moment a law which his Noble Friend said would be attended with such advantage. It was a doctrine — that of a fixed duty—which he had always advocated; but how was this argument invariably met by the Noble Lords on the other side of the House? Why, they were told that they must not levy a tax upon the food of the people—they might establish a corn-law for protection —but a corn-law for revenue was most unjust.—(Hear, hear.) He could see no course so greatly to be depre ciated as that, after all the agitation and discussion of the subject and the settlement of the question in 1846, Parliament should once more throw into doubt what was to be the permanent law on this most exciting subject, and pass such a temporary Bill as that spoken of by his Noble Friend. He could not help expressing his hope and earnest expectation that Parliament would not inter fere again with the final settlement of this question. The Duke of RICHMOND said that such a measure as that suggested by his Noble Frien d would prevent the necessity of an increased income - t ax ; as to " letting down the farmers," he could only say they would never submit to being let down, and if a bad harvest occurred in this country, when there was abundance of food abroad, an agitation would be commenced amongst th see farmers of a serious nature, and, perhaps, they would e sort to measures which he would not recommend; they would be ready to join any set of men in refusing pay ment of taxes when they found the Government embar rassed from a deficient Exchequer. He should ner forget that the present Corn-law was passed byen who all their lives before had advocated protection to the agriculturists, and they had voted against their con victions. The House of Lords also had lowered them selves by their conduct in 1846, in reference to this measure, in the estimation of the great body of the people of this country, and if they did not naind f what they were about they would not gain their con idence again. The subject then dropped. the table some papers relative to the poor-laws in Ireland. AONWCIE laid :on The Marquis of LVA.ANGSRD Lord MONTEA.GLE said he would postpone the mo tion of which he had given notice relative to this subject until he had seen the papers which the Noble Marquis had presented. Lord BROUGHA.II condemned the practice of re lieving vagrants by giving them a supper, a night's lodg ing, and breakfast the next morning. He thought it a r t o e q n n u d t ,i s the ya and dr Char tistsit Lordiis . . practice calculated to encourage vagrancy. Many per sons. d e o w n r a d y t h ß e t e :M u a m a t bad been relieved in Hertfordshire last week who meetings in the metropolis on Whit-Monda were D 1 i cu k ok e n l ev y oe to o sna b ti e icohn o r a n their obnedt v:Te Salis bury, after te s t d ir ale, the subject dropped. IRELAND. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE wished to know the form of a motion of which his Noble Friend (Earl Fitz william) had given notice with reference to Ireland, and when ho would bring it on? Earl FITZ WILLIAM said he should move that the House felt grateful to the Executive Government for the manner in which it had been conducted in Ireland; that it regretted that the legislative measures which had hitherto been taken for the relief and improvement of Ireland had not been as extensive or successful as could be wished; and that it would be desirablo that the Par liament or the Government should take other and more extensive measures for relieving the distress and improv ing the condition of the country. He would bring on his motion on Friday next. EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL. On the motion of the Marquis of CLANRICARDE the amendments to this Bill were ordered to be printed, and the report to be received on Thursday next. Their Lordships then adjourned. man whose views are adverse to mine in many re spects, but who is nev ertheless a gentleman of great intelligence and of great experience, and one moreover who has devoted more than ordinary attention to this subject. I allude to M r. Innes, who was exa mined be for the Select Committee on sugar and coffee planting. — (Hear, hear.) He was asked the following questions, which are numbered 13,384-5 in the report of the evi dence :—" Do you believe that the change of the sugar duties which took place in 1846 has materially affected the condition of the West Indies?" His reply WAS as follows:—" I entertain the opinion that much more has been attributed to that Act, as regards the past. than can rto in pre fianirllBy4b6e, it;iatscirsibinaedpotosaihar od thhoaltd tthhaetre u ced hithth e e an Act ahvaevinceffe conse pnasasneyd great accession o f sug operate most que nce of that Act, thinkyon p d ro o sp n e o c t ti h v e e l l i y ev i e t t w h i a l t l injuriously:' attribute the N the s state i o e f s d i t s o t r e t s h s e o p whiche irnt aot w ti 00 0 rn u i 0 1 il n:f t; y e fair h exists t w e hi Acte to hex i s ted before that ?—I believe in o f 1846, but you trace it back causes which existed before that ?—I believe if the Act of 1846 h a d never been p assed, the price eof sugar would have been nearly as low last i t c can Ae year as it was ; but I consider that the Act of 1846, having entirely destroyed confidence in West India pro perty, has deprived the planter of support, and dimi nished his power to supply sugar."—(Hear, hear.) My own opinion is, that the distress which has prevailed of late in the West Indies, taken by itself, resembles many cases of distress which existed during the continuance of monopoly; and I am disposed to think that what we have now to consider is rather the general effect of the legislation that has hitherto prevailed, than the distress which just at the present moment exists in those colo nies. There are two periods and two great acts by which ' the present state of the West Indies has been materially affected. The first of these Acts was that by which the negro population was made free.--(Hear, hear.) I con : sider, and have always considered, that that was a great act of humanity and justice.—(Hear, hear.) I think it was due to a numerous class of persons living under the British Crown, but living, unfortunately for themselves, in the miserable condition of slavery; and I am most decidedly of opinion that if that Act had not been passed, we should have had a series of insurrections and disturbances which would have been fatal to the prosperity of the West Indies.—(Hear, hear.) I desire, therefore, to have it expressly understood, that in anything I may say to-day, I wish rather to take pride to myself than shame for having been a party to that great act of emancipation. I think that the gift of 20,000,0001., cheerfully conceded at that time by the people and Par liament of this country, demonstr ated how (rreat was their abhorrence of slavery, and tha t it also showed b that the people and Parliament had such a sense of justice that, deep though their aversion was to that atrocious system, they were disposed, as far as in them lay, to make a sacrifice in order to prevent misery and distress from falling on those who heretofore were permitted to possess slaves. But it was not to be expected that a great lact!of that kind, by which freedom was given in a very short period to eighty thousand human beings who had previously existed in a state of slavery, should operate in such a manner that the transition could be effected without very considerable inconvenience. Such a result was to have been expected; and I think that we may be well satisfied that the inconvenience did not proceed to such an extent as entirely to disorganise and overthrow the state of so ciety which existed in the West Indies previous to the passing of the Emancipation Act. I think it speaks well for those who bad been proprietors of slaves be fore then, and well too for the negro population them selves, that so little of disturbance accompanied a change of such magnitude. But in carrying that Act into effect some measures were adopted, which, although they were supported by public feeling at the time, and met with the concurrence of Parliament, did certainly throw ad ditional difficulties in the way of the West Indian pro prietors. I speak more particularly of the prohibitions which were then imposed on the importation of la bourers from the coast of Africa.—(Hear, hear.) It was thought to be impossible to obtain labour from the coast of Africa without reviving slavery, and giving en couragement to the slave trade. So strong was the feeling upon that subject, that when .1 was in the Colonial-office I found that there was very great difficulties in the way of an attempt—a slight attempt which I then made to facilitate the importation of labourers from Sierra Leone ; and when, at a later period, a plan on a larger scale was proposed for the introduction of labourers from the East Indies into the Mauritius, the project was objected to, and, in fact, rejected by a vote of this House.—(Hear, hear.) Other measures were subsequently adopted, with the view to obtain a supply of labour of a different kind for the West Indies and the Mauritius; but those mea sures required a long time to carry them out, and have not been attended with any very satisfactory results. The introduction of Europeans into the West Indies is said to have failed as a source of supplying labour. The introduction of coolies has not been attended with any remarkable success; and the various measures which have been adopted for bringing over labourers from the coast of Africa were of a complicated character, and re. quired a great deal of correspondence and regulation to prevent abuses. I believe, however, that several such measures were attempted in the year 1843, and again in the year 1845; but I have not learned that, as yet, they have produced any beneficial effect on the supply of labour for the West Indies. Other measures were taken at the same time, to which great objection was made, but which were not on principle so fairly liable to those objections. I allude to the facilities which were given for entering into contracts with labourers. The other great changes which have materially affected the condition of the West Indies took place in the years 1843 and 1846. 1 1 Those changes consisted of the admission of free-labour sugar in the former year, and the admission, in the year 1846, of all foreign sugars, at duty reduced at first from 635. to 215., and with a subsequent reduction which, in the year 1851, was to end in the equalization of the duty. As the former measure—that of the emancipation of the slave population of the West Indies—rested on un doubted principles of religion, humanity, and justice, so I think that the measure of 1846 rested no less on views of sound policy and justice to the labouring population of this country. I cannot but think that while only a very scanty supply of sugar was to be obtained from our own possessions, and while our proprietors in the West Indies were very much perplexed for a supply of labour, and were oftentimes unable to get anything but a very small return in deed in work for a very considerable outlay, (for we have evidence to show that many of their labourers refused to work for more than five hours dur ing five days in the week)—l say, Sir, I cannot but think that it would have been unjust to the people of this country to refuse them the power of procuring else where so common, and indeed so indispensable an article of consumption as sugar, at a cheaper rate than it was possible for them to obtain it from our own possessions, suffering as these colonies were under such previous dis advantages. With regard to the great measures which I have mentioned, I cannot but think that the great ob ject and main purpose for which they were introduced have been succcessf'ully achieved. The main purpose of the Act of 1834 was to give free dom to 800,000 human beings, to place them iu the po sition of free labourers living in a state of independence, prosperity, and peace. That that grand object has been accomplished, all will admit. It is my decided opinion that a class of labourers more happy, more comfortable, and more in the possession of those advantages which should be incidental to persons in their position of life, than the negro population of the West Indies, does not exist. That great object has been accomplished by the Act of 1834. The Act of 1846, too, has accomplished the object for which it was introduced —that of affording a cheaper supply of sugar, and, at the same time, of lessening the burden of taxation upon the people of this country. The Act has been completely successful in effecting two purposes which those who in troduced it had in view. It has given to the consumer in this country a larger supply at a smaller charge, and at the same time has been productive of an increase in the revenue. From an authentic document which I hold in my hand I find that the consumption of sugar in 1845 was 244,000 tons; in 1846, 261,300 tons; in 1847, 290,700 tons. It may be in the recollection of the House that in making an estimation of supply and consumption in the year 1846 I calculated that the consumption would probably reach 280,000 tons, or thereabouts. And now let us see how the revenue account stands. In 1845 the revenue received on account of sugar was 3,745,0001.; in 1846 it was 4,050,0001.; in 1847 it was 4,596,000/.; showing an increase in the revenue of 1847 over the revenue of 1845 of no less a sum than 851,000L—(Hear, hear.) That enormous increase, of no less than Bal,OOOL on the reve nue derivable from a single article of consumption, is attributable not simply to the operation of the Act of 1846 a but also to the diminution of the duties in 1845. It is, in fact, the consequence, gradual but inevitable in its growth, of the reduction of the rates and taxes pay able by the people.—(Hear, hear.) So far as concerns the great object of enabling the consumer to have sugar at a cheaper rate, while, instead of injuring, we improved the revenue, nothing could be more successful than our legislation. But I have stated what I thought to be the grievances and evils accompanying the Act of 1834. The Act of 1846 was also accompanied by evils which affected the proprietors in the West Indies very injuri ously, land certainly produced, to a very great extent, that discouragement to which Mr. Innes alludes in the passage which I have read from his evidence. It has been said that the prospect of the speedy abolition of all protective duties, and the equalization 9 it th f ;l a 11 tuou d tp u l ar t ye i e v s euni i t ta h hn i e n d sh s u o aga a s ri h n oer factst ta t a es, pd, ae prevented,n ri d od , w e i as aren y c alcu i themutinto regardt t h o tsoa market, rakr eg te, that many of those estates, it left out of cultivationftoulolrdr e months t o come , w ill require many years to restore productiveness.gaudanectiitdyldtohfclahs e been also said, that with foreigner, by his being encouraged l to export advantage t sager h og i rr c ta h anu i t is article brought r a better description to this inferior article to continental m n ar r e , that the difference in point of val ue of while flt ahe mesugarinformedsends praen pared with clay and other ingredients, and the ordinary Muscovado sugar, is no less than 65. per cwt. This it is said, arises from the inequality of the duty, for so long as there is so marked a difference in the scale of duties, it is clearly to the advantage of the foreigner that he should send the better article to the English market, and the inferior to the markets of the continent. We see there fore, t h a t while these two g reat measures are in their main principles not o nly defensible, but as I think, de serving of support and commendation, they have never theless been a ttended in their o p eration by certain present tainlisa odvatntages, which have contributed for the place the proprietors in some parts of the West Indies in the embarrassed position which they now occupy. In speaking on this subject I have frequently taken occasion to enforce the great principles which ought to be maintained in our treat ment of it. It is, as I conceive, of the greatest importance that the experiment of 1834—the experiment of a rapid transition from slavery to freedom, should be suc cessful, and it is also of great importance that we - should give every fair opportunity for the competition of free labour as against slave labour. The Governnunt is bound to propose any measures which they think they can fairly recommend as calculated to alleviate the evils by which those classes are distressed who now appeal to us for relief. I will state at once what it is we have in contemplation to do. I will do so without going into into arguments on the subject, for I am rather anxious that the discussion should be deferred until Slonday next. It is right, however, that the House should be put in possession of what our views are with respect to this important matter. With regard to the first question, to which I alluded as depending on those adjunct; to the ma y take leave to say that much has been Act of 1834 by which labour was made diffe.ult to be years to diminish the difficulties which were pdthrootineseucorrefedla'attieed. The present state of the case is, that labourers may be introduced into the West Indica from any British possession in Africa, attended with this proviso—that there is to be an officer on board whose business it shall be to take care that no transaction shall bit permitted which resembles the traffic emigrate to the West Indies shall in slaves, and that, in fact, to ensure that who o e own free will and assent. But there has my Noble Friend now at ha head of the pdeorssoonsof their been another measure adopted wit h respect to liberated Department. Formerly those Africans were sent to Sierra Leone, or to some other possession in the Colonial Africans neighbourhood, and ' the West Indies derived no advan tage from their labour. They were maintained at a great expense in a state of idleness and barbarism in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone. My Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial Department has provided that those liberated Africans shall, under certain re strictions and coaditions,:which it is untmessary for me here to explain, be sent to the West Indies, for the pur pose of being there employed as labourers. By this means we h o pe that some good will be effected. With respect, however, to this question of emigration, I may state, as 1 have observed on former occasions, that the suspicion which prevailed in this country that the slave trade might perhaps be revived under the pretext of em i grat i on , and that emigrants might be compelled against their will to work on the West Indian estates, has continued for a longer time than was anticipated, and has retarded the energies of the planters, by de terring persons from emigrating to the West, Indies, and thus limiting the supply of labour. Entertain ing these views, therefore, we now propose to do more than we should have done if the question had been from the beginning settled in favour of the West Indian proprietors, and more than we should have done if a free importation of labour had been going on from the year 1835 to the present day. We propose to make advances on the security of the colonial revenues, or to guarantee loans which may be made to the colonies for the purpose of defraying the expense of the importation of emigrants into the West Indies, and we propose that the sum to be allocated fur that purpose shall not exceed 500,0001., in addition to the sum of 170, 0001 . to which the House has already given its sanction.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to ;,the contracts of servants, and the questions of vagrancy and squatting, they are matters which engage the most serious attention of my Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial Department. lie is willing to agree to any reasonable proposition that may be made with respect to those questions, but there is a great difficulty in framing Bills upon the subject, and it does not appear that in many instances the colonial legislators themselves have suggested measures which are calculated to be practically beneficial to them. Any such measures, any measures which do not contem plate a system of compulsory labour, are sure of com manding the ready attention of my Noble Friend, and the serious consideration of the Government at large. I now come to that other question, namely, the question of the Act of 1846. I have said that complaints have been made of the too rapid operation of that Act, and that it has likewise been alleged that there is one kind of sugar which in the present classification of duties enjoys advantages which it ought not to enjoy in the admission of sugars into the British market. Now, in considering this matter I must say at the outset that I do not consider it would be at all fair towards the British consumer that we should impose anything like a differen tial duty of 10s., to last for six years or longer, for the purpose of reviving industry and prosperity in the West Indies. When I take into consideration the heavy amount of taxes that we have to impose on the people of this country—when I take into consideration that the labourer in this couatry, the man who gives his whole industry to toil for ten or twelve hours a day, looks to those articles of consumption—tea and coffee, and sugar, as necessary comforts —I do think that to impose on him a duty which may be exaggerated when it is said to amount to 2,900,0001. a year; but which, at all events, cannot be less than 2,000,0001. a year—(A laugh)—l am ready to take it at a mil lion, or a millicn and a half a year; but I still do say that to impose upon him such a heavy tax for a long period would be a hardship to the English con sumer, which I, at least, should not wish to be a party to.--(Hear, hear.) I look, therefore, in another direc tion.—(Hear, hear.) The experience which we have had of late years with regard to many articles to which I need not more particularly refer, but with respect to which the duties have been lessened, or with regard to which, without a lessening of the duties, there has been a greater production, and therefore a lowering orthe price, is such as to encourage us in the course which we propose to adopt, That experience has gone to show that the consumption of the articles has vastly increased, and that while the consumer has greatly gained, the revenue has not been injured. Therefore it is that I am encouraged to look again in the same direction rather than in the direction of an increase of the duties now ex isting. Instead of aggravating the burdens which already press so heavily on the British people, I think it is wiser and more politic that we should seek.to modify the Act of 1846, by reducing restrictive duties, and so promote a larger co nsumption.—(Loud cheers.) While on this point, I will take the liberty of referring to a paper which was submitted to the consideration of the Select Committee on Sugar and Coffee Planting. It is written by Mr. Green (as we caught the name), and is addressed in the form of a letter to the Noble Lord who was chair man of that Committee. The letter gives an account of the increase of the consumption after the lowering of the duty, and it then goes on to say—" In 1825 an increase of 7s. per cwt. in price caused a decrease in consump tiou of 16,000 tons : Tons. 1826 a fall of 7s. 11d. increased consumption 25,900 1827 a rise of sa. 2d. diminished ~. _ _ . . _ . 1828 s fall of 43 : ld. increased . .: 17,000 1830 a further fall of ss. 21 a 1836 a rise of 7s. sd. diminished .. 21,500 in 1837 a fall of 6s. 3d. increased In 1839 a rise of ss. 6d. diminished.... In 1840 a further rise of 103. 4d In 1841 a fall of Bs. Bd. increased . The trade returns for the years 1845, 1846, and 1847, establish tho fact beyond all dispute ;hat an enormous increase in consumption is the inevitable result of a re duction of price. In 1845 there was a fall of lls. 9d., and the consumption increased 38,0J0 tons. In 1846 there was a rise, and the consumption decreased 17,300 tons; but in 1847 there was again a fall, and the con sumption increased 29,400 tons, making, in three years, an increase of 85,000 tons per annum on the consump tion of 1841.—(Hear, hear.) That increase of 850,000 tons within a period comparatively se brief, is, I think, a singular and most remarkable procf of the powers of consumption in this country—(Hear. hear) —and proves so s atisfactorily that our natural consumption has been limited and checked heretofore by restrictive duties, that we are encouraged to make further experi ments in carrying out to a still greater extent the prin ciple of the reduction of duties. What I propose, there fore, is, that the duty on colonial sugar shall be reduced after the sth of July, in this year, to 135.; and that it shall be progressively reduced at the rate of ls. a year until it reaches 10s.—(Hear, hear.) I propose that the duty on ordinary foreign Muscovado sugar shall remain according to the Act of 1846, but I propose that a new dis tinctive duty with regard to sugar to be called " brown cloyed sugar," or sugar equal thereto, which during the year, commencing, the sth of July, 1848, and ending on the sth of July, 1849, shall remain at 20s. (the perma nent duty on all foreign sugar), and then be reduced by Is. 6d. a:year until it reaches 10s. on the sth of July, in the year 1854.—(Hear, hear.) The House therefore will see that colonial sugar will at once fall to 135., from that to 125., and from that to I Is.; and that after three years there will be a permanent duty of 10s.—(Hear, hear.) Foreign sugar in the same way will fall ls. 61 a year fur six years, until 1834, when the duty will be 10s. 6d. There it will remain, and there will be the equalization of duties.—(Hear, hear.) I will read the scale we propose to establish. Ia the year ending the sth July, 1849, the respective duties will stand thus:— s. d. Foreign brown claved sugar Common Muscovado (foreign) Colonial Musco vado l3 0 In the year ending 5111 of July, 1850: — Foreign brown clayed sugar Common Muscovado (foreign) Colonial Musc ovado l2 0 In the year ending sth of July, 1851: 17 0 Foreign brown c la y ed sugar Common M usc ovado (foreign) 15 6 Colonial Musco vado ll 0 In the year ending sth of July, 1852: 15 6 Foreign brown c la y ed sugar Common Muscovado (foreign) Colonial Musco vado In the year ending bth of July, 1853: — Foreign brown clayed sugar Common Muscovado Colonial Muscova do lO 0 In the year ending sth July, 1854 Foreign brown c la y ed sugar Common Muscovado (foreign) ..• . 12 0 Colonial Muscova do lO 0 After July, 1854, it is proposed that each of these classes shall pay a uniform duty of 10s.—(Hear, hear.) There will not then be a temptation either to the foreign or the colonial grower to bring to the English market superior classes of sugar to the exclusion of all sugars of an inferior qu,lity. lam most decidedly of opinion that the wisest and most politic course we can pursue is even tually to abolish all distinctive duties. It is very much better to establish all tho duties at the uniform standard of lOs ., than to maintain permanent differences of that kind. Of course such changes as I have proposed will require corresponding changes in the duties on refined and double-refined sugars, and on white clayed and mo lasses as laid down in the schedule. I have said that complaints have been made on the subject of rum. It has been frequently represented that the differential duty on that article is an injustice to the producer in the West Indies. It will be in the recollection of the House that last year my Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed that a duty of 6d. should be imposed on rum. Finding that there was considerable difficulty in inducing the House to accede to that proposition, he consented to substitute a duty of 9d, for td,, but in so HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 16. ,7 - The SPEAKER took the Chair_at Four o'clock. Mr. BROTHERTON presented two petitions from Salford in favour of household suffrage. Mr. JACKSON, Mr. JOHN Evass, and several other Hon. Members presented petitions in favour of Perlin- mentary reform. Mr. HENRY BERKELEY presented a similar peti tion from the West London Reform Association, and several to the same effect from Bristol. Sir R. H. INGLIS presented a petition from West minster in favour of the Health of Towns Bill. Mr. GEORGE THOMPSON presented a petition from Clerkenwell is favour of Parliamentary reform. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed: Fleetwood, Preston, and West Riding Junction Railway (Burnley and Colliery Branches). Londonderry and Coleraine Railway (Deviation of Line and Amendment of Act). Londonderry and: Enniskillen Railway (Relinquishment of line between Omagh and Enniskillen, &c.) Bill. CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS. The following reports were considered and agreed to: Dundee and Perth Railway (leaso of the Dundee and Arbroath Railway Bill): Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway, and Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction Railway (Amendment of Acts) Bill. Dr. BOWRING presented three petitions from Bolton in favour of Parliamentary reform. Sir E. BUXTON presented petitions from various parties in the West Indies against any extensive emi gration from Africa. The Hon. Baronet also presented petitions in favour of Parliamentary reform. Mr. COWPER presented a petition from Hertford in favour of an extension of the suffrage. Mr. HASTIE presented a petition from Paisley against the sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays; also a petition from the same place in favour of Parlia mentary reform. Mr. COBDEN presented a large number of petitions to the same effect. _ _ Mr. BANKES presented a petition from the county of Dorset praying the House to pass an Act to define the right of the Church and the Crown in the nomination of bishops. FRAUDS IN THE SALE OF BREAD. The HoN. MEMBER then brought up a Bill for more effectually suppressing frauds in the sale of bread and other articles of food, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on the 3d of July. SLIGO ELECTION.. The Committee appointed to try the merits of the petition against the return for this borough was sum moned to the table and sworn. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Lord DUDLEY STUART presented a petition pray ing for Parliamentary reform. Mr. HUME presented a petition, signed by persons resident in the metropolis, stating that the present con dition of the country made it absolutely necessary that there should be some retrenchment, and praying that the suffrage might be extended, that the voter might be fur ther protected, and that the duration of Parliaments might be shortened. THE RECEPTION OF PRINTED PETITIONS. The HoN. MEMBER. also stated that he had received several petitions from different parts of the country, praying for Parliamentary reform, but they were printed; and agreeably to the rules of the House, he believed that printed petitions could not be received; and if that were so, it was important that it should be generally known, as it would save parties a good deal of trouble. He therefore begged to ask whether it was consistent with the rules of the House that he or any other Member could present printed petitions. The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member was quite right in his supposition, because it was a rule of the House that printed petitions should not be received. Mr. HUME apprehended that lithographed petitions could be received ? The SPEAKER—A petition must be written. BOROUGH OF DERBY. Mr. STAFFORD proposed the following motion:— " That Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a new writ for the electing of two: burgesses to serve in the present Parliament for the borough of Derby, in the room of the Right Hon. Edward Strutt and the Hon. Edward Frederick Le veson Gower, whose election had been determined to be void." Mr. lIUME rose amidst cries for a division. He said he thought after the decision which the House came to last night with respect to the issuing of the writ for would L i,: i tt e i e n s g te r o To , six having voted in favour of the not the ha writ—that the Honourable Gentleman seemed t o hi n ," House to bring r pressed his motion to-night. It the expression of forward be trifling with the time of the whole on the part of the House yes a similar motion to-day after terday. As the the write of f atter in relation to this and other places, which had been suspended, wou ld come before the H on sugg est to the Hon. Gentle on Monday, Gentleman the propriety of post poning his m otion until that dr. He he begged to of dividing. Mr. STAFFO RD said so large a number because hoped he would not put the Hous e to the trouble' rlaer voted against the issuing of t he writ for Leicester the report re it had of the Committee and the evidence adduced before motion not been laid on th e table. He should press to a division. The House then divided, when there appeared-- For the issuing of the writ Against it Majority against issuing the writ —53 The issuing of the writ is consequently still further suspended. lIIGIIWAY BILL. Sir G. GREY, in answer to a question from Sir J. Trollope, stated that he would consent to the Highway Bill being referred to a Select Committee, although he had originally opposed it ; but he did not think that chat Committee could be appointe d on Monday nex. WEST INDIA DISTRESS. The SPEAKER then called upon Lord JOHN RUSSELL, who spoke as followa: — I will now proceed to make the statement w hich I have promised to the House that I would make on this day with respect to the state of the West Indies, and the distress prevailing there. I mean to-day to end by a mere motion of form, and to propose that on Monday next the House should resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, for the purpose of considering the propositions which I will this day have the honour of stating to the House. Sir, in considering the present state of the West Indies, and generally of those parts of the British dominions in which the production of sugar is carried on, I think it will be necessary, although I wish to enter iuto arguments as little as possible, to take some general view of the past course of our legislation. — (Hear, hear.) In my view, in considering this question, it will not be sufficient that we should limit our attention to the mere operation of the Act of 1836. I am confirmed by the opinion of a gentle- THE SUN, _LONDON, SATURDAY__EV doing he intimated most expressly that his opinion on the question remained wholly unchanged. Evidence was taken on this subject before the Select Committee of sugar and coffee planting, and a gentleman who has a merit which is rare in this matter—that of being en tirely impartial—(Hear)—at the same time that he is a gentleman of great information and experience —I niea- Mr. John Wood, the chairman of the Board of Exci , ., o _ tig n t (11‘l f forth h a g (Hear, hear)—was amongst those who were ex,v, ine d . lie said that it was not for him to calculate wie t the hearing all the statements that had bN,r, dif ferential duty ought to be, but he addect, P ant if, made on both sides, and judging from his own exv,i,rir after favour of some par nee in such mat ters,(t ocular he a n scale authorityo werep opinion called ioofn ad hn uda t n, s been t e. o ehe n i t s o ar .eht, au: oration (Hear hear.) After ü b e y stio a ns ge o n f tl t e h m is ano cha racter, I do not tli',ok that we could propose that any larger duty than 4d, should be imposed.—(Rear.) At least, I feel, acting according to our own notions of what is due to the interests of the home consumer, and of what is dee to hu manity and justice, that being placed in a difficult situation towards the West India proprietors, and the proprietors of other parts of the empire, it would be very unfair, where they had a case of equality, to say we could not listen to them on account of the interests existing in this country. There is one qnestion connected with these reductions of the duty, which will, I believe, make it necessary for us to call back the permission granted some short time ago to use sugar in breweries. Accord ing to the scale proposed by my Right Hon. Friend with regard to the introduction of sugar into breweries, there was no advantage given to the use of sugar over malt in breweries; but with a reduced duty of 10s., there would be an obvious advantage given to its use. To place them upon an equality with regard to the vexatious imposi tions upon the business of the brewer, in the supervision of about forty thousand different establishments, I be lieve it will be necessary, unless we find that some other proposal should obviate the difficulty, to withdraw the permission for the use of sugar in breweries. which is established by Act of Parliament. With regard to distilleries, I do not think any change can be made. The drawback, of course, will be diminished in exact proportion to the change that is contemplated. I be lieve I have now given a general outline of the measures we propose to adopt, and the changes we propose to make. I trust the House will bear in mind, in any pro position they have to consider upon the subject, whether the proposition of the Government or of any other party, that the principles of the two Acts to which I have re ferred ought to be kept steadily in view. —(Hear, hear.) No inducement to assist the West Indian proprietors, in order to have a larger production from our colonies, ought to induce us, in any way, to impair the principle of the great Act for the abolition of slavery, which it is the honour of this country and of this House to have placed upon the statute-book.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) I say that, not, of course, with reference to the sugar duties, but with reference to the introduction of labourers into the West Indies, for I assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that I have heard a plan by which the purchase of negroes upon the coast of Africa would be considered a meritorious act to be sanctioned by the Parliament of this country. Against any such proposition or measure I should most strenu ously object.—(Hear, hear.) But I think, next to the importance of preserving the principle •of the Abolition Act, is the necessity of keeping steadily in view the great purpose of the Act of 1846, namely, the allowing the consumer in this country to have his sugar as cheap as it can be obtained consistently with the necessary maintenance of the revenue.—(Hear, hear.) In what I have proposed I have not departed from that principle ; and I shall very much lament if the House this year, at a time when great distress prevails among the people of this country, and when we think it necessary to main tain no less an amount of taxation than the country has sustained in former years, for the sake of any interest, should consent to increase the price of a great article of consumption, and thereby injure the consumers in this country.—(Hear, hear.) I have now stated what the proposition of the Government is, and I think it will be far more convenient if gentlemen will allow me to circu late, which I hope to do in the course of to-morrow, the scale I propose as an altered scale, before any discussion, and with that view I shall propose that the House will, on Monday next, resolve itself into a Committee upon the Act of 1846. I shall conclude by moving that the Act 9th and loth Victoria, c. 6e, be tiew read. The question having been put, Sir R. H. INGLIS said that he could not have believed it possible, if the experiments had not been made, that a statement could be made on such a subject without one passing reference to that which he believed to be the deep-seated feeling of the people of this country.—( Hear, hear.) The question was not whether the people of this country had cheap sugar or not, but whether it should be stained with the blood of thousands.—(Hear, hear.) It was true the First Minister of the Crown expressed his desire to preserve intact the Act of 1834; but did he preserve equally intact the Act of 1807 ?—(Hear, hear.) It was not enough that England should be herself free from carrying on the slave trade in her own ships. Was it not equally criminal and sinful on her part if wilfully, and with eyes open, they did that which must encourage the slave trade in other countries ? (Hear, hear.) He wished for cheap sugar and cheap anything; but there were better things in heaven and earth than mere cheapness. It was proved before the two Committees which sat on this subject that every pound of sugar which was introduced cheaply into this country tended to bring back that guilt which years ago they thought it their duty to blot out of their consciences. They were virtually returning to that guilty system. He forgot the hostility of the West Indian body to the Act of abolition, and was of opinion that they should not bear the expense of our humanity. Looking to the present measure apart from moral causes, he thought it ridiculous as a measure of relief to the West Indian bodv.—(Hear, hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON should not enter into anything like an extended comment on the debate they had just heard. He believed it would be more convenient to dis cuss the subject generally hereafter. But he could not but express the very great pain and disappointment he felt at the course that had been adopted. It was with groat pain that he had observed the extraordinary omission just referred to, and it was with great dis appointment that he had heard from the Noble Lord a statement so little likely to be satisfactory to the suffer ing merchants of our West India colonies. He was:quite prepared to consider the interests of the consumer at home, but he was not prepared to do injustice to the merchant abroad. He was not prepared to follow the Noble Lord in his statement relative to the sup ply of sugar from the West Indies, but, ho believed, there was no year on record in which that supply was not equal to the consumption of Great Britain. He be lieved this course of legislation was a virtual departure from the principle of the great Act of 1834. When the proper time arrived he should be prepared to move an amendment, the objects of which would be to uphold the report of the Committee, and to give relief to our suffer ing colonies. Mr. BERNAL did not wish to go into a discussion upon the subject, but as a Member independent of all parties upon this question, he wished now to repeat that nothing would ever prevent his recording, over and over again, his opinion that his West India fellow-subjects were fully entitled to import into this country the pro duce of their growth free of all duty whatsoever. He only farther wished to recommend that the packet should be detained until the whole debate upon this subject had been taken. Mr. BARKLY could not say he had heard the Noble Lord's announcement with disappointment, because he had never been sanguine that the present Government was likely to do much for the benefit of the West India colonies. He believed that this measure would con summate their ruin. When the authors of the Bill of 1846 came down within two years with a measure of amendment there could be very little doubt that that Bill was a decided failure. They ought now to apply themselves not to prop up that system, but to some remedy for the evil it had done. Could the Noble Lord show a single benefit that would accrue to any one from the alteration he contemplated ? Did he think it would benefit the consumer, by ensuring him a cheap and re gular supply? He wished Members before they came down to that House would read the evidence taken be fore the Committee.—(" Hear," from Lord J. Russell.) He was sure, if they did, they would very much alter their views upon the subject. Mr. BRIGHT rose to protest against the doctrine that all the distress of this empire was centered in the West India colonies.—(Loud ironical cheers from the opposition.) He was glad Gentlemen opposite acknow ledged at last the fact that all their sympathies were not to be directed to one class. He protested against the %Vest India colonists coming to this country to be re lieved from their distress at the expense of the mother country. If they took Ireland, or the counties of York and Lancaster, he believed they would find far greater claims to relief than any that could be presented from the West Indies. In the manufacturing districts great distress had occurred within the last two years.—(Hear.) He believed he might say that within that period one half the capital of those districts had been lost.—(Re newed ironical cheers.) He understood those cheers ; but let him ask, suppose the manufacturers were to come to that house, and, pleading their losses, were to demand that a legislative enactment should be passed to raise the price of all manufactured articles in this country and the West Indies, did they suppose that the West Indians and all other classes of people would not complain ?—(Hear, hear.) But perhaps they would say that the distress in the West Indies was caused by legislative interference. He did not believe it. 'When did their distress commence? Some people said two years ago—some people said as far back as the Bmancipation Act. At the period of the Emanci pation Act they had voted to them a sum of twenty mil lions. The interest on that was about 800,000x+ a year. Why, he believed all the exports to the West Indies prior to the passing of that Act only amounted in value to about five millions per annum, and if their profit on that trading was taken at fifteen per cent., they would find that they ought now to be receiving from the eman cipation money alone nearly 70,0001. a year more than they received by their previous trading. His belief was, that protection had ruined the West Indies, by limiting the attention of the colonists almost entirely to sugar cultivation. If that protection were taken away, there were a hundred articles which might become a subject of traffic between this country and her colonies. The 500,0001. the Noble Lord talked about would not be, in his opinion, worth fivepence to the West Indies. The emigration from Africa would most likely produce elements of discord into the West Indies, which at present were not foreseen. He thought the money was so much thrown away, except in the experi ence the expenditure would secure. The proposal made f a a r y erer wiserm mate one, of 1846. the Government taken their stand on the r b i y al th hh e e G , h o u v t er h n e m t e h n o t a w gh as t n it o w t, e were not, in his opinion, making much way a —(Hear, hear.) Gentlem en o pp osite d o i u n ld hi h s a o v p e i b n e i . o e r n i, was no necessity for the —Ol , give wi a t r h nm th e e ht co t u o ntry, a w n ay twheitrhe -- regard to a measure which the country he verily be- be suppli e d t o the West Indies save that now in practice, lieved alm'ost unanimously approved. A day was and if any more effectual method could he suggested, ho coming, and that very speedily, when free-trade prince- would answer for it that the Colonial-office and the Go pies were likely to be consummated. The sun and vernment at large would give such plan every attention, al' avers o f heaven were doing their work, and when provided the principle adopted was that of sending free farmers next Christmas find their wheat selling at free- men, and by their own free will, to labour in the West trade prices, they would not be very likely to thank Indies. Tice great difficulty in this respect, had been those representatives who laboured to raise the price of from the want of funds to transport free labourers to their sugar under pretence of justice to the colonists. their estates on the part of the planters. The Legisla - Mr. H. BAILLIE thought the Hon. Member for ture had imposed no restrictions on the import of free Manchester was the only Member of the House who labourers. But the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to would have had the audacity to assume that he, in his exclude all slave-grown sugars from the home markets. own person, represented the entire population of the Mr. BERRIES remarked that he said nothing of th e country. The Hon. Member represented only a class kind. interest—the interest of the Manchester manufacturers; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would and he would only ask him how he could reconcile it to be sorry to misrepresent the Right lion. Gentleman, but his conscience as a free-trader, that we should take i pot- his Hon. Friend at his right hand also so understood ton for home manufactures free of duty, whilst we taxed what had been said by him. It appeared then that he our own colonists 14s. per cwt. for their sugar?—(Hear, was not prepared to exclude slave-grown sugars from hear.) But he would not waste words on the Member home consumption. for Manchester. He wished to express very briefly his Mr. HERRIES explained that what he had stat ed extreme disappointment at the measure of the Noble was, that the Legislature having discouraged by heav_Y, Lord. It was a measure which would give no effectual differential duties the consumption of slave - grow n sug r relief of any sort. It was of very little conseq4ence to in the home market, had removed suddenly those restrte: the colonists, whether they adopted this amended scale, tions by the Act of 1846 ; and that now the Noble Lov e r or carried out the Bill of 1846 exactly as it stood, proposed to remove the remaining restrictions altogethe., Their ruin, under any system, was sure and inevitable; on its consumption, by gradually bringing the duties on and it very little mattered whether it was consum- slave-grown and free labour sugars to a level. T hat via; mated by the lingering process, or by the more speedy one. The measure was supported by a part of the House, because, if opposed, they would drive the present Government from office. For his part, he would rather see a Chartist Government in office than consent to do a gross injustice. He regretted that the Government should have been deterred, by any reference to majorities or minorities in that House, from doing what it thought just and right. It should have stood or fallen by the measure of 1846. Mr. COBDEN would say but a single word. His Honourable Friend the Member for Manchester and others were discountenanced by the other side of the House, as being connected with the cotton trade, a cir cumstance which seemed to be considered as, somehow or other, depriving their opinions of any weight on this subject. Now he (Mr. Cobden) was not connected with the cotton trade, but with the woollen trade—a trade indigenous in the country, and therefore, he supposed, not repudiated by the Protectionists over the way. As a representative for Yorkshire, he had no hesitation in saying that the course of Honourable Gentlemen opposite on this question was opposed to the opinion of the Yorkshire people. He would remind them that it was the people of Yorkshire who had supported Mr. Wilberforce, the great anti slavery champion, in all the opposition through which he asserted the principles which had brought about the depreciation in the price of our sugars. The other day a deputation from Bradford waited upon the Government to obtain at least some hope of remedial measures for the existing distress ; but they went away as they came; the Chancellor of the Exchequer telling them he could do nothing for them. One of the deputation mentioned that his factories gave employment to a thousand per sons, and that it was solely to give those persons bread that he had kept his factories open at all, for that he would gladly have closed them twelvemonths ago until better times arrived. It would not be particularly satis factory to this gentleman and his fellow-manufacturers to find that while all relief was withheld from them relief was to be given to the West India planters. Mr. HUME had heard the statement of the Noble Lord with the deepest regret. Government would have done far better to have let the matter alogether alone. It was really deplorable to hear the Noble Lord, after such repeated flourishes about his determination to adhere to the Act of 1846, thus unblushingly propose the violation of the whole principle and spirit of that measure. — (Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that.his lion. Friend the Member for the %Vest Riding of Yorkshire, as well as his other free-trade colleagues, were taking a one sided view of this question.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friona suggested a parallel between the case of the manufacturers of Yorkshire and the sugar-growers of the West Indies, whereas in point of fact there was no such analogy at all.—(Hear, hear.) In the first place the West Indies were precisely damaged by the want of that cheap and efficient labour which the manufacturers of Yorkshire were absolutely overwhelmed with. — (Hear, hear.) He had hoped to see the Government endeavouring to remedy the evils which its former legislation had inflicted upon the West Indies by very different means from those proposed, which amounted to a mere frittering away of the public money without any sort of advantage to the West Indies. (Hear, hear.) What the West Indies wanted was a restoration of confidence, and the means of producing their sugars as cheaply as the slave-holding states. Ile had told Government how it would be when they were proposing the hasty and most inconsiderate measure which had so largely contributed to the distresses of the West India interest, and be had moved to postpone the donation of twenty millions until a committee had in quired how far it would be safe and judicious to pro ceed with the proposed plan; but he had been induced not to press his amendment to a division, a circumstance which he now regretted. Government talked of our heavy taxation, and heavy, more than enough, God knew it was ; but why did they not remove that taxa tion, the discontinuance of which was within their power? Why call upon the country every year to pay a million of money for the perfectly absurd and wholly inefficient squadron of the coast of Africa?—(Hear, hear.) The fact was, that this question must be taken up on Mon day, on a far wider and more comprehensive basis than that suggested by the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) The real question for earnest consideration would be whether we were to keep the West India colonies or to lose them.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. H. DRUMMOND quite agreed with the Hon. Member for Montrose that the question was, whether the House thought it worth while to retain tho West Indies by simply doing them justice. Mr. P. MILES said, that whereas the West India planter was being ruined with a duty of 65., the Govern ment proposed to restore his prosperity by reducing the protection to ss. 6d.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member complained of the conduct of the Colonial-office, in withu holding the presentation of the papers on this subject, so essential to its due consideration, until the day pre ceding that on which the discussion commenced. — (Hear, hear.) Some time ago the Right Hon. the Under Secretary of the Colonies had assured him that no delay should take place in the presentation of these papers, but although the most important of them had been received so long back as April, the House were not placed in possession of them until, in point of fact, that very morning, so that they were expected to make themselves masters of the contents of a huge folio, two or three inches thick, in some half-dozen hours.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon }Member having read two extracts from dispatches of Lord Harris and Sir Charles Grey, describing the extreme distress of the West Indies, and expressive of the opinion that the con nexion with this country would be materially endan gered unless some practical sympathy with the colonists were promptly displayed by the home Government, sug gested that the West India mail should be delayed until the discussion on this subject was completed, so that the colonists might have information as to their prospects at the earliest possible moment.—(Elear.) Mr. HENLEY expressed his conviction that, if the country were polled, there would be an enormous ma jority who would prefer the cause of humanity, of Justice, and of sound policy, to the saving a farthing a pound upon their sugar. Mr. HUDSON denied that the Hon. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire represented the opinions even of his own constituents upon this subject. Mr. E. DENISON said that the proposition of the Noble Lord would not be accepted by the West In dians as in any degree meeting their requirements. Mr. HERRIES thought the Noble Lord had placed himself in a singularly unenviable position by his state ment. There was not a single Memb er , as ye t, w h o h a d given it his sanction, and this was no remarkable cir cumstance, considering what the measure was, or rather, was not. After all the labours of the Committee up stairs, after its production of eight thick volumes, con taining more information than had ever before been fur nished to the House upon any one subject, after the able report it had presented, the Noble Lord had, as if nothing had happened, proposed a measure which met not one of the requirements which gave occasion to the Committee.—(Hear, hear.) In fact, it was not a mea sure at all—it was a mere evasion of the subject.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") Again, after our forty years' struggle against slavery—after our enormous outlay of money and of life, and of influence with the maritime nations of the world, in vindication of the principle we had proclaimed in hostility to the detestable slave trade —after we had been told, and told most truly, that all we had done had merely been to make the slave trade at once more horrible and more prosperous, the Noble Lord, in hi s speec h upon this question, so intimatelyl connected with slavery and the slave trade, had not uttered a single word about either slavery or the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) A s to t h e propose d measure , no one in the colonies would accept it as a relief; it would not even be taken as an instalment of relief.— (Hear, hear.) It did not require for him to wait until . Monday next to be abl e t o p ronounce t h at t h e proposi tion of the Government would disappoint not only the West India planters, but also every person who was looking to the Noble Lord's project for some relief. If the Noble Lord relied on any support from that quarter, therefore, he must content himself with the prospect of having the smallest possible minority when his proposal was put to the vote. Such, at least, he was bound to say, was the impression the present conversation left upon his mind. He would only add one word, and that was with respect to the financial condition of the country, and also as to the effects which the Noble Lord's pro posal, if carried out, would produce on the revenue. i As he did not believe the contemplated reduction n the duty would have any effect upon the consu m p tion far as to increase the revenue from that cause, h in so e con fessed he was unable to foresee how the Right Hon. Baronet would bo able to wind up the incomplete bud get which he had presented to Parliament. There was a deficiency in the receipts amo unting , to three and a half millions. Where were the resources of the Right Hon. Baronet for bridging over, or rather for shutting through, his financial difficulties ?—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But, in addition to the acknowledged defici ency, there must also be taken into account the addi tional loss which would result to the revenue from the reduction of the sugar duties, and there could be no doubt that the loss so sustained would swe ll t o no i ncom siderable degree the existing deficit. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he had attentively listened to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and had certainly expected him to end by making a counter-proposition to the House in lieu of that of his Noble Friend. Proposals had been made on the part of some of the West Indians to provide free labourers from the re-captured Africans lodged in the barracoons, by transp or ti ng them to the British colonies. But this the Government would not consent to, as it would give direct encouragement to the traffic in slaves carried on iu the interior of Africa. In fact, he know of no plan by which free labourers could what he objected to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thanked the Right Hon. Gentleman. Then what he meant to argue was, that the high rate of duties on slaee-grovill sugars ought to be maintained, but not entirely to ex .; elude those sugars. The Government, however , felt 1 necessary to abide by the policy already marked out b / d previous majorities of that House, which had affirMe the principle of admitting all sugars into fair and fre e competition. The point, then, which the Right 11 .‘ 1 „ rj. Gentleman contended for was, the maintenance of P',, tection for the British planters during an adequate ter'",: to enable them to compete by means of free labour with slave-labour sugars. And the argument advanced., by the Protectionists was that the only chance of Pa t l n e i down slavery was to give free labour every P e . ss- of advantage over slave labour. The recommen dation . 0 the Committee nominated by the Noble Lord °I, Member for Lynn was not to exclude sisslie% grown sugar, but to grant protection fur f iee years, in order to give the planters time to a ste r their arrangements. The Hon. Member for Leo (Mr. Barkly) defined that protection to be 10s. duty en, British plantation sugar for three years. Th e refore ,e n i e less the Legislature was prepared to go back, th e ro of questions to be considered were, not the e xclusicin hs g slave-grown sugar, but for what time and to /- r amount was protection to be extended to free-lab:le sugars; and on Monday he should be prepared to P re o l that the Government proposal was preferable to 0 00 better than that suggested by the opposite par* s al never had been sanguine that the Government p ro f I t o. would be well received by Hon. Gentlemen oPP, e9 at With respect to the financial results to which th e ist Hon. Gentleman had referred, all he could say wa s k o he did not anticipate any great loss to the reven ue in - ea t. the alterations in the duty proposed by the Govereieh But he could not say as much for the proposal w ha d from the opposite side of the House. I f l eee s la to choose between them he should have no hesitat ia "bie, saying that the Government proposal was I Pre fera blell for even on the score of revenue the sacrifice %is might be occasioned would never exceed in Pas e sti tion the sum of 40,000/ ~,eo Mr. C. P. VILLIERS remarked that anY2, ll fl e tr ose had heard the speech of the Hon. Member for - 10 1."„ o a on the present occasion would have supposed Thar never done otherwise than blame the Act which e co l to cipated the slaves, and that he had also been oPP.., e ' hell free trade. He only cited this in order to shali o ege very much opinions wavered on all sides of the, ~,pl ' on the question before them. lle had no do ub t' t oil ever that the Hon. Member would be able sistiarae thee to explain his views on Monday, and to sna k , frog consistent with his general opinions.--(" Hea r ' ed t o Mr. Hume.) The great point to consider 01,00 him to be the want of the British West Ina le Plt the of free labourers. It was generally admitted tbet_oto negroes now in the islands would work there w ed to be plenty of sugar produced. Therefore, it see l o se 0 him that the great thing to be done was to Prexoclies' moral effect upon the negroes now in the West Od a the tendency of which would be to show thelb-ot the were not to have it all their own way, bu t t . fie' Government would lend assistance in bringing w 1 0 1 0 1 labour from other quarters if the negroes rat es 0 been emancipated would not work at prope r wages. , I , IC ° Lord GEORGE BENTINCE said that 1 o stri c Indian mail, which went out to-morrow, Nvo ei se 'e t with it tidings of despair and dismay to t" w ls s e Indians, as well as the deepest regret in their us l o g tb, the progress which the slave trade had made elil, r p ro: last two years. He was quite sure the Nohl e ii , tb s proposal would be of no avail in averting the r u n PI prevailed in the West Indies. To say that 1 ,113 1 s u'O C s colonies were in their present ruined state, O o s O li o down by the measure of 1846, a protection talc'h " i fo° 0 , of the Government would be any relief to thea l 'o ocso mockery. The reason why he rose on the re g r e t atei' to sion was to give the British planters some het! wa s, their despair.—(A laugh.) And if the e z ' il oolo et ; carry out the Government proposal, to let the ra , s pr o listen to the coldness with which the Noble 113 , hof t al positions had been received. To let them e :" pate Abe Honourable Member for the University °h . t etit;,• r c speech had been received, and to teach tbe rl oo ei;i j s Noble Lord's dictum was not received aS, seat„, s te by the House:—(A laugh.) He au gure' ' OlO 6 • verdict on Monday would be that the Britis p Oon• B e d should not be allowed to perish. The Right ititie3tii-(1' ronet (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) bTh o wer e d that under the Act of 1844 slave-grown sug, s '" Thst; si mated from the United States and Venezeo s * % ceeu„ s e true, but so small was the quantity as not ta Actin lts tons in all the quantity imported under that tide d ie e 4 year. The Hon. Member for Bristol had ali oplaiso, dispatch of Sir Charles Grey, and had ju stl y c° tll st A ti• of the length of time that had elapsed befogs (I,otese ' patch was laid on the table of the Hous e- ..I' l , o ber. A oft Bentinck) would go further than the 1: 1 ° a • A ' 'li l< , would ° 0 f would affirm that Sir C. Grey's dispatc h Was reel ;, held 4 e5) the 27th of March, and that not only wa,a '" B. 00", i ie but when the lion. Member for Kinsale (m it r • juc lilly th e was examined before the• Committee 00 ‘ l ` e s t : ,„g of as i tress, he positively declared that he knew not ne,„b P o state of the case which was contained in a (11 . 1 1 7;) 00 had been nine days in his possession.—(A is o i te r is al was to be sure nothing more than a renes ~ ,,s 00 Under-Colonial Secretary of the same trick "wee t o been played off by his chief in another pla o l 3, go b , dispatch was withholdl for four hours after toe„ b re. :o had concluded.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member 'i v P' m but he would not do so when the evidence givett a to ",1 before the West India Committee was quope u e fi?„ House. The Noble Lord then referred to 'thf Soule,' India Committee blue book, and read a part 0 o , Grey's despatch, wherein the Governor of Jaerteic l o o that unless the Gazette price of Muscovados O ho tP, permanently maintained at 305., the result wouN! oa ks , the cultivation of sugar must bo abandoned in ''a j rA: and " for that reason," continued Sir C. Greg: 3 0 1 ; cemmend that the duties on Muscovados be leY lB t ' Qi ' P e 'IS per lb. on British free-labour sugars, and at -- ' eor e/° on foreign sugars, liable to alterations when 01%04 colonies remitted their slaves." That was, in a tt o top t ,b l s the remedy which ho had proposed for the of e of the House. But wh a t was th e evidel le- for ' - e f Hon. Member the Under-Secretary of Stl te 5 0 D e , Colonies before the Committee, en the bleb ti April, he having had the dispatch I f get;fr, had just quoted since the 27th e f &VI to The Honourable Member, on being questionet.,rre°,o Goulburn as to the accounts from Jamaica , v ; s t i s r eff Committee to the general accounts from the I nwo re° to e known by the name of the Blue Book, Oa,' ch sta s oel stated that the accounts were of a general vs sor ie ole r and when Mr. Goulburn, dissatisfied with th, 9 . 0 „ oh ° o o 4 indefinite reply of the Hon. Member, asked ", 1 00 /1 0 0', the Governor of Jamaica wrote no disean o n, 0 ,0 , what were to bo seen in the Blue Book, th .1 ; ott i ird ber distinctly said—" Yes he does, but I am eO ,, re° any dispatch of importance which has befr from him and withheld from the Omni:ll4We% d oe. , I Mr. HAWES—It was not withheld at that h „Aie l lo Lord G. BENTINCK—Why, the di51? . 9 1, 0 ° R e v el, have quoted was received at the Colonial '7Ol t t o 27th of March; the Hon. Member's evide. l . l 74 4 9 ~ on the sth of April, and the document . I r r.) ~,TO l 9 produced or printed until June.—(llear,?_!.•ftle ' , Mr. B. HAWES—It was produced veue" 0 fe o fof Lord moved for it. iS as mber "OP e t 4 Lord G. BENTINCK—The Hon • -use bo f I 0 with me.—(A laugh.) I moved, on the Bth 10 rs is. , !, the production of all papers received sine!' !„, el, di , printed. But the Hon. Under-Secrem.hrfo / eh ( IP O stated before the Committee at the time _,,'' eir e41)09. 0 ,, patch was in his possession, that he 1104! ....5 i c a, 1 . 0 0 4 ,, patches of importance at all from sPZ . d_ s stlyt e C7ll hear.) The Noble Lord then proeeeu ~„0 00 te . . n tt ~ was clear why the dispatch was held back `,:„ l d ;e s ( mittee. The Hon. Under -Secretary vru i T ot of c ; 1 0 0( 1 have excused himself by saying it wa s A naOt e 00 $11 0 ance; but was the dispel eh which he had .7. m e , 40 11 ,,e importance?—(Hear.) The sugar inter 40 1 '„( P'„( fair play in this matter, nor was it intends rep ort " o it '6, have fair play. lie had thought that th e b ee; Or 0 Committee would have received more sae, o f ta rt, this he was certain, that had the disPatetu-sse:p; Grey been received in time, that reporberre.,.ii3vcolePir been agreed to by the majority of the Met :a wa y led be Otto hear.) The question of differential dutl • ect 140 ? to which the Committee had particularlf t i r lt t iee c 1 i l 3 attention, and if its advocates had been f b l„,„elf " re , evidence of the Governor of Jamaica, isioritierePoo trader, there could be no doubt but their la i' t , tP it eUt , have been considerably greater. He t houf e s e fo K e r that he had a right to make a grave cha„ .. g ot a 0 , 1 1 4 , colonial officer for keeping back so intecr . l ,7,,,, 0 .0 c o l —(Hear, hear.) He would not at that It elpoP,4 into the discussion, seeing that no rl o blo dee: oo , templated, but would merely advise the _ , ia _ t ..0 , ar is- era_utiestakets:telfgoelltiff the head of the Government to L he or e d a r e e b t o %ld . p e v r o l o k e with great colonies. The Noble , , matt pat i or. o t e r n 1 s. himself 6d . p per rwi cwt.th when the int eres ." 4 i ° very existence of great colonies were' s !. ;„ t he, e 0 3 sugar, i n hear.) Those colonies had been loyal 11 00 4. times, but their patience bad its limits; the 10 05 • A te take leave to say to the Noble L?rd, po t sod P' Burke, that" magnanimity in politics e was_ sire v as v 0 truest wisdom," and that " a great 101' bed is Ptii minds go in together. —(Cheers.) de l a y tio p i 0 0 Mr. HAWES denied that any undue in qu i e l s o bil e v ori place in the delivery of the dispatch . until b e j bf" 00 ° 0 must defer lengthened e xplanation , m ob, st i „ 0 •• _ This ss q uo „ l it s s opportunity of making inquiries. understood 10.,,',,lver°100P's he would say, that he had a „ Ise Ce Or the Right Hon. Member . ~ c o e d ec ei be for Cambrule . t he ciao e 0 referring to what was technically been r Ye. 0' d not , ba _ „ Bl u e Book, which blue book had _ si d aot h _i en to the present hour, and therefore 0 01 i . zspa so v , „ given to the Committee. As to th tu C