The Sun. — London, England, 1848-03-07 00:00:00

7 i enamoured of it. He thought it was a tax that should be reserved for a time of war. The House of Commons, however, assented to it, and the country accepted it with a greater acquiescence than he oould have expected, in order to give the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel) an opportunity of proceeding with his commercial t-eforms. If that course was found necessary in 1845, it !vas much more so at the present period. It had been said that the reduction of duties effected by the Right lion. Baronet had proved a failure. His (Mr. Labou ehere's) conviction was of a different kind, and he firmly believed that if the springs of industry had not been relaxed by the measures alluded to, the country Would now be in] a worse position than it was. -- (Hear, hear.) He thought the country had reason to rejoice, that in consequence of them, British commerce bad been enabled to supply the unfortunate calamities which a deficiency of food had brought upon it. He should look upon it as a most unfortunate circumstance if the House were to agree to the motion of his lion. Friend, end limit the income tax to a year. It would be both false economy and false policy, to take any step which should have the effect of giving a shock to the credit of the country. Aud he could net disguise his apprehen sion that the House, in assenting to the proposition of his Hon. Friend, would give a great blow to commerce 'And to the credit of the country both at home and abroad. lie hoped that peace would be preserved both at home and abroad, but lookine to the circumstances of the times, it was most desirable, whatever Minister the House Might choose to have, that the credit of the country should be sustained, and that union should exist amongst all parties upon this point. Let them cut down all unne cessary expenses, but let the honour, character and credit of the country be upheld at all events.—(llcar.) It was desirable that their system of taxation should be revised; but let them not, under present circumstances. throw thins into confusion in the hope that something blight come from it. Such conduct would be an unpar donable error in the House. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the prostrate position and fallen condition of the country. It was true they were suff Ting from the effects of a great calamity; but he denied that there was anything in the state of the country to inspire them with despondency. —(hear.) He believed it only required time, peace at home and abroad, union and political tratquillity, to make this country spring forward in the rac e , of prosperity ; and all calamities would pass away like clouds. Let them not judge of their pro gress in prosperity by a single year, but let them judge Of it by periods of twenty years. He would read for the House a comparative statement which had been drawn up by officials in the Board of Trade, of the Wealth of the country as shown by the income-tax in 1 815, and as shown by the returns of 1842. The result Would show how greatly the country increased in pros perity during the interval; and it should be recollected I st the same time that in the year 1815, all incomes above 'SO/. a year were taken into calculation with a depre ciated currency, whilst in 1842 all incomes under 1501. were exempted, with an appreciated currency. Tinder schedule A, including real property, the amount rated to the income-tax for 1814-15 was 60,000,0001.; in 1842 3 it was 91,0e0,003/ tinder schedule B, including the occupiers of land, &c., the return for 1814-15 was 38,000,000 L; in 1842-3, it was 43,000,0001. Under schedule C, including the public funds, the return for 1 814-15 was 31,000,0001 ; in 1842 it was 27,000,000/. Under schedule D. including trades and professions, the return for 1814-15 was 35,886,0001.; in 1842 3, it Was 64,344,0001. In schedule E, including sale- Ill's, the amount, in 1542.43, was considerably diminished—a fact to which he begged to direct the attention of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose. the amount rated under the head of salaries to the income-tax, for 1814-15, was 13,642,0001.; in 1842 3 it Ivls 10,195,0001. The result of the whole was, that in 1815 the amount rated to the income-tax was 179,000,0001.; in 1842 it Was 240,000,000/. It was impossible to give a inure striking and satisfactory proof of the steady in- Crease of the wealth and prosperity of the country. — (Hear.) Since 1815 taxes to the amount of 53 millions had been reduced, and others to the amount of 13,782,000/. had been imposed, leaving a balance of More than 39,770,000/. If they were not enabled to make the revenue cover the expenses of the year, they were resolved that upon an average of years there Should be a probable expectation that the income would tqual the expenditure. No man could predict with cer tainty with respect to future expenditure and income. All he could say was, that the Government in submit ting their financial proposition to the House, had asked for as little taxation as was consistent with the efficiency of the public service of the country, and he hoped the House would not disturb the credit of the country by assenting to the proposition of his Hon. Friend. Mr. OSBORNE said that the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had said but little in support of the income-tax, but that might be expected, when it was known that the Right Hun. Gentleman had said on a former occasion that " he never met with a statesman or any man experienced in political affairs, who did not declare that the imposition of such a tax was most ob jectionable, and above all to be avoided in time of peace, and that before having recourse to such a scheme of taxation he must exhaust every other."—(Hear, hear.) Why had not the Right Hon. Gentleman exhausted every other scheme of taxation, and why did he not support the motion of the lion. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. tlorsman)? But the Right lion. Gentleman supported the motion brought forward by the Hon. Member for Liskeard, now a member of the Government, which had somewhat a similar object in view. Mr. LABOUCHERE said he did not vote for it. Mr. OSBORNE—The Right Hon. Gentleman did no' 'vote for it, but he did not vote against it. He was o Opinion that the tax ought to be rendered more equal, and though they might not be able to arrive at mathe matical accuracy, that was no reason why they should not endeavour to render it more' palateable to the people, The Right Hon. Genth man the Chancellor of the Ex chequer quoted the authority of Mr. Pitt, but it should be recollected that when Mr. Pitt imposed the income tax the country was engaged in a war for her existence. When the renewal of this tax was proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) made the following motion:—" That, considering the various means of supplying the present deficiency, it is the opi nion of the House that the renewal of a tax inquisitorial in its character, unequal in its pressure, and hitherto considered exclusively as the financial reserve of the nation in time of war, is not called for by the public ne cessities, and is not, therefore, advisable."—(hear.) He did not think that there was any greater necessity for this tax now than when the Noble Lord made this motion, In 1816 the House of Commous refused an income-tax by a majority of 37, and the public credit was not shaken, nor did Ministers resign in consequence. But in 1842 the Right Hon. Baronet smuggled the income tax through the House, and promised that the amount of the tax would be made up by the saving which would result from the commercial measure's which he proposed. Re (Mr. Osborne) never yet saw the person who said that he effected any such saving.—(Hear.) He'denied that he had a right to look to the exigencies of the State alone in imposing taxes; they must also look to tha exigencies and wants of the people, and he believed ther e never was a time when the people were less able to bear a tax, not of five per cent., but of three per cent.-- (Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice) said that the income-tax did not affect the poor. Ho denied that. It was well known that it induced all persons to curtail their expenses. The poorer classes were beginning to comprehend that, and they were therefore determined to oppose It. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War, in 1842, and the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir. R. Peel), in 1333, admitted this. He thought the whole question of taxation should be referred to a Committee, instead of the current expenditure, which was a dan gerous precedent. He thought the time was come when the people of this country would insist on cheap government, and would not tolerate the system of ne potism by which the members of the aristocracy were provided for in their public offices. In 1842 the Noble Lord said he saw ,no reason why a legacy duty should not be imposed on real property in preference to the in come-tax. But now not one Member of of the Govern ment said a word on this subject. He was sorry the Honourable Member for Manchester had withdrawn his motion on this subject, because, if there was any time more appropriate for bringing it forward than another, it was the present.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Letrd in 1842 also recommended a tax on four-wheeled car riag PS and horses, from all which he calculated a revenue of 2.500,0001. He did not 'know how the Noble Lord could come down to propose a tax which he had so much denounced in 1842. It was stated that the Irish Members would vote for the imposition of this tax. lie should be surprised if they were so blind to their own interests and to the consequence of their votes if' they gave them in favour of the tax.—(Oh.) The Hon. Gentleman who cried "Oh" showed that he had already made up his mind to vote for it. But he begged to remind him and other Irish Members that the great leader of the Irish pecple, who was now no more, expressed himself strongly against this tax. He said, " In proposing the income-tax, you are proposing what is unjust to the people of England, and, therefore, I will give such a proposition all the opposition in my power." Another authority of no less weight, still living, and a Member of the Government, said, "That of all imposi tions which a perverse ingenuity could devise the in c une-tex was the worst—a tax most repugnant to the interests, abhorrent to the religious sentiments, and re volting to the moral senee of the people of England.— (Laughter, and cries of " Name.") It was no less a person than the distinguished Member fur Dungarvan who used these words.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Os borne) fully participated in the sentiments of the Right Ron. Gentleman, and if the Members from Ireland sup ported the infliction and perpetuation of this manifest and revolting injustice on their English brethren, he believed the time had arrived when it should also be im posed on the sister kingdom.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL—I think, Sir, that it is important in considering the question, whether the income-tax shall now , be continued for three years, that we should not exclude altogether from our consideration the circum stances under which that tax was imposed in 1842, and renewed in the year 1845 ; and I feel it incumbent upon me, after the reflections which have been cast upon the tax itself, and upon the motives and conduct of those by whom it was imposed, to vindicate from the aspersions of opponents the Government by which this tax was proposed to Parliament, and the House of Commons which, by immense majorities, consented to its original imposition.—(Hear.) If, Sir, they believe all they have heard, this House of Commons, or rather those Mem bers of it who had no place in the last Parliament, can not but have formed a strange opinion of the conduct of their predecessors, and must be filled with surprise and astonishment that it was possible for any Minister to have persuaded a Legislature to consent to the imposi tion of the tax we are discussing. The Hon. Member who spoke last says the tax was " smuggled " through Parliament. Smuggled through Parliament ! Smuggle an income-tax imposir.g a burden of five millions on the people ! Smuggled through Parliament !---If you --the House of Commons—are ashamed of the vote by which this tix was passed, rescind it ! If new events 7 have occurred convincing you that the policy was wrong alter the policy ; it must always be wise to accept the guidance of experience ; it must always be absurd to maintain a system which occurrences proves unsound. But it is a gross reflection upon the late House of Com mons to insinuate, as has been done this night, that this measure was "smuggled" through Parliament, and it is an equally injurious imputation upon those who imposed the tax to say that they concealed the real motives of their conduct !--(Hear.) By overwhelming majorities the tax was assented to. An Honourable Member (the Member for Finsbury) told us the other night that he was " fascinated " into supporting it. —(A laugh.) A Representative of a large and important constituency, makes the humiliating avowal that he allowed a tax im posing a burden of five millions upon the people of Eng land to pass this House, not because of his deliberate conviction of its justice and propriety, but because he was " fascinated" into supporting it.—(Laughter.) Another Hon. Member says it was " smuggled " through the House. Why did you permit it ? Can it be possible that Members of large constituencies allowed so im portant a treasure to pass in such a manner ? Sir, on their behalf, I repel the imputation. I conceive that there never was an imputation more ill founded. I be lieve that there were great and important considerations of financial and commercial policy which induced you to assent to this tax, in place of increasing the indirect taxation of the country. Let me review what occurred. I was appointed to office in 1841. in what lam about to say, I appear to draw any invidious contrast between the late and the present Government, let me at once disclaim any intention of so doing.—(Hear, hear.) One of my motives fur giving my support to this measure is, because of the great difliculties of the position in which the Government are placed. That is one of my motives fur supporting the measure. But, in vindication of the late House of Commons, I must state what is the truth. I will endeavour to make that statement from memory, with out troubling the House by referring to statistics. In 1841 the Government with which I was connected succeeded to power. There was a deficit in the revenue. It was not an occasional and casual deficit. In 1838, if I re collect rightly, there had been a deficiency of 1,500,000/. In 1839 there was a deficiency of half a million. In 1840 a further deficiency of 1,500,000/. In 1841 the deficiency amounted to no less than 2,400,0001. My estimate in 1842 was, that if no great effort were made, and if the estimates were to be continued at the same rate until 1843, mytestimate was that wo should have in ' that year a further deficiency of 2,600,0001. On the sth of April in that year, if my calculations were correct, wo should have had an accumulation of deficit amounting to no less than ten millions sterling money I. That was the financial condition of the country ! What had taken place ? The House of Commons, when they assented to a fiscal alteration, which could not be resisted except on fiscal considerations--the House of Commons, when they assented to an alteration of the Post-office duties, pro fessed a fixed determination to support the public credit. They declared that there should be no deficiency. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in fulfilment of that pledge, had proposed to Parliament an addition of 5 per cent. upon the Customs and Excise duties, and had proposed that 10 per cent. should be added to the assessed taxes. What had been the result of these addi tions to the general taxation? If I recollect rightly, the Chancellor of the Exchequer estimated that the 5 per cent. added to the Customs and Excise duties would pro duce about 1,900,000/. The actual income was, on the most favourable calculation, not more than 700,0001. Consequently there was a deficiency, comparing the esti mate with the proceeds, of not less than 1,300,000/. But what had taken place as regarded the addition to the assessed taxes? The estimate was, that 262,000/. would he the produce of the 10 per cent. additional taxation upon this branch; but the actual produce was 300,000/. There consequently was evidence that indirect taxation had reached its limit, whilst direct taxation could bear a further impost. I ask, then, was it the more wise in 1842 to resort to direct taxation to supply our deficiencies, or to seek for a renewal of indirect taxes, such as the reim position of the duties upon salt and leather, and other articles of general consumption? On that financial ground —guided by that great financial consideration—the House took the view that the income- tax was advisable. That tax was not " smuggled " through the House. It was assented to after long debates, after strenuous opposition, upon the firm conviction that indirect taxation offered no opportunities of supplying the deficiency equal to the opportunity resulting from the imposition of that tax.— (Loud cheers.) But I have said that there were also commercial considerations which swayed the House. What was the commercial position of the country ? There existed a complete prohibition on the importation of those animals which formed part of the means of human subsistence. Not a cow, not a sheep, not a bul ... lock could be admitted! But this was not all. On bacon there was a duty of 11. Bs. per cwt.; on hams, 11. Bs. per cwt.; on rice, a duty of 7s. a quarter; on salted pork, a duty of 12s. a barrel; on salted beef the same; nay, there was even a duty of 2s. a cwt. on potatoes, and well I remember that when I proposed to reduce that duty there were the greatest remonstrances from the growers of the root, and the loudest prophecies of total ruin to all the districts in which it was cultivated!—(Hear, and cheers.) But, to go beyond this, what was the state of the corn-law at that time? If the price of wheat was 675. Ild. a quarter, a duty was imposed of 18s. Bd.; if the price was 635. I Id., the duty was 1/. 3s. Bd.; if it was 625. 1 ld., there was a duty of 1/. 4s. 11d. I greatly modified all these duties. I proposed also to remove all prohibitions upon the admission of other classes of articles, and to permit their importation at certain specified rates. I proposed to admit all raw materials at rates of duty not exceeding five per cent.; to admit all goods partially manufactured at rates not exceeding twelve per cent.; and all goods wholly manu factured I proposed to admit at rates not exceeding twenty per cent. Those propositions were acceded to after repeated discussions. To supply the deficiency thus created in the revenue, I proposed an income-tax to last until 1845. In that year it would have expired in the ordinary course of things. But, looking now at the events of that year I beg to recal to the recollection of the House what was the statement I then made. I told the House that in that year there would be a surplus revenue amounting to five millions. I stated that if they allowed the income-tax to expire there would be in 1846 a surplus of 2,600,000/. I stated at the same time that in the opinion of her Majesty's Government it was advisable to add greatly to our naval estimates. The progress of steam navigation—the impossibility of re pairing our steam-vessels in the Channel—the unfitness of our ports for steam navigation—rendered it in our opinion advisable to lay the foundation of those works which have since been carried on. We thought it also advisable to add to the number of our men in the navy. I stated that to the House before I asked them to renew the income-tax. I told them that it was open to them either to abandon the income-tax or to retain it, dispensing with duties upon other articles. I said, it you retain the tax you will have a surplus of 3,600,000/. I asked, in what manner will you apply that surplus ? I entreated the House seriously to consider whether or no they were prepared to repeal the income-tax, or, retain ing that tax, to repeal the excise duties on glass, &c., and to make an alteration of the sugar duties. So far from taking the House by surprise those propositions were fully submitted to their consideration. The Howe affirmed the increase of the estimates ; they affirmed the renewal of the income-tax ; they affirmed the re peal of taxes which involved a gross loss of two mil lions to the revenue ; a loss of 600,0001. on glass, of 680,0001. on cotton, of 300,000/. upon the auction duty, together with other items, making a total loss to the revenue, which it was impossible to recover by any indi rect taxation of the same sort, to the extent of not less than two millions at the least. It was with a full cognisance of all these facts that the House of Commons consented to the scheme. Now, it has been said that I concealed the real objects with which I made those propositions. —(Hear, hear.) It has been said, that addressing myself subsequently to a body of merchants in a distant town, the subjects of another country, I made a decla ration at variance with my then e x p resse d o pi n io ns .— (Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) Why, I utterly deny it.—(Ministerial cheers.) Why, I have seen in the newspapers a letter purporting to be written by me, which, in the first place, appeared to have been a German translation of what I did write, and then an English re-translation of the . German edition.—(Laught er and cheers.) lam little desirous to repel these attacks; I care little about them; but here is the letter I really did write, which is that I apprehend by which I am bound. " The property-tax was intended"—that is not the commencement of the letter, but I suppose I need not read what does not refer to the subject. I re ceived an address from these gentlemen, and I wrote to thank them for it. After expressing my thanks, I pro ceeded— The property-tax was intended not merely to supply a deficit in the revenue as compared with the public ex penditure, but to lay the foundation of juster principles of taxation, to afford means for repealing duties on the raw materials of important manufactures, for exempting useful branches of domestic industry from vexatious re gulations of excise, and for remitting taxation from several articles imported from abroad which are essential to the comfort and enjoyment of the industrious classes of the country." That was what I wrote—(hear, hear); and I beg to ask if that was not in direct coincidence with all I had ever declared, and if I was not fully justified in saying that my object was to " lay the foundation of juster principles of taxation ?"—(Cheers.) There were 1,200 articles of consumption subject to duties which led to restrictions and regulations much more onerous even than the taxes themselves. On 700 of those articles the duties were re duced, and on 500 they were entirely repealed. Was not that the foundation of a great commercial change ? If you say to me, " You did not use words to that effect in this house," I reply that the very words of the letter are identical with words which I used in debate. On the 23d of March, 1842, an intimation having been thrown out that the Government were not in earnest in proposing the change, and that I had not asserted or implied t h a t the Government staked their existence upon the success of their measures--en the 23d of March, 1842, I used the following 7.ords in debate :—" I propose this as a measure which involves the fate of the Government. To have made such a declaration appears to me scarcely necessary. I do propose it—l speak not of minor de tails, but of :the measure itself—as the basis of the financial and commercial policy of this country — (Loud cries of " Near, hear.") Well, there is a dif ference certainly between " basis " and " foundation." I leave you to make the most of it— "—and as a measure which I never could have consented to propose if I did not manifest my conviction of its necessity by risking my fate as a Minister on it. The more I consider the subject the more deeply am I con. vineed that this measure, and the measures which ac company it, are necessary for the welfare of the country." Those are the exact expressions which I used in 1842. I did then certainly express a strong doubt if it would not be better to continue the tax for five years rather than for three, but I expressed a sanguine hope that at .he end of five years it would be possible to repeal it. And when 1845 came my anticipations were realised, for I was able to show you in that year that there was a surplus of s,ooo,oool.—that the buoyancy of the revenue was such as nearly to supply the void which had pre viously existed, and that it was then in your power, had you so pleased, to have repealed the tax , instead of you a measure for the isierease of the estimates and the remission of duties upon other articles. It was with a full knowledge of all these facts that the House consented in 1845 to a revival of the tax of 1842. Now if the House regret this, as I said before, I must obviously con cede their right to express that regret, and to take a different course, but I do not want to shelter myself under their authority. So long as I lire I shall never repent that I proposed this alteration in the com mercial policy of the country—(Cheers)—and induced the House of Commons, not by fascination, not by smuggling, but by a full and explicit statement of facts, to impose and continue the direct tax in question, in lieu of the repealed and reduced taxes to which I have re ferred.—(Hear, hear.) I have made this statement in justice to those who, however they fell off from me in 1846—(Laughter)—were my cordial supporters in 1845. —(Hear, hear.) There is nothing further from my wish than to revive any of the discussions of 1846; but we must draw a clear line of distinction between the com mercial line of policy of 1845 and that of 1846. Now, there were some predictions made at the time of the in come-tax being proposed which it is not immaterial to recall. We were told that the substitution of direct fur indirect taxation to the extent which I proposed was most unwise, and that, though we might receive a large sum as income-tax, we should find a material counterbalance in the falling off in other taxes, as, for example, in the assessed taxes. Now such has not been the case. In 1842, before the direct tax, the income-tax, was imposed there was received of assessed taxes 4,190,0001. In 1847, after the several years' collection of the direct tax, the income-tax, there were received, of assessed taxes, 4,334,000/., so that so far from there being a falling off in assessed taxes on account of the simultaneous imposi tion of the income-tax, there was an increase of consi derably more than 100,000/.—(Hear, hear.) In 1842 and 1845, I meant to lay down no principle with refer ence to the proportion which direct taxation should bear to indirect taxation ; I_ simply said then, as I say now, that I thought the impossibility of 3 per cent., on the income of the country, as a substitute for the taxes repealed or reduced, on articles of subsistence, on the raw materials of manufactures, or articles which pecu liarly lead to smuggling, woud be a beneficial substi tute.—(Hear, hear.) lam quite aware that there are limits to the imposition of direct taxation.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not agree with those who would substi tute direct for indirect taxation as a general principle. —(Hear, hear.) In times of peace lam not at all pre pared to say that I could wish—except for special and temporary purposes—to carry direct taxation to any much greater extent than we have now carried it.— (Hear,: hear.) I am quite ready to admit that there are great evils accompanying direct taxation. There is a strong inducement, no doubt, in evil times, to derive revenue from direct rather than from indirect taxation—(Hear, hear)—but I am not prepared to assent to any general rule for the substitution, though it is one accordant, I believe, with the opinions of very many Members of this House.—(Hear, hear.) I admit that there are many cases of individual hardship under the income-tax, as there are under every tax that is raised, but I do not admit the hardship of the principle upon which we now proceed.--(Hear, hear.) I think the tax ought to be distinctly a tax upon income. If, in deed, you wanted to make some great national effort, for some distinct national purpose, then you might ap ply to capital. If you wanted, for example, by a great national effort, to pay off all, or a part of the national debt—l do not say this were a desirable effort—but if you desired to make it, then you must apply to realised capital; but I am now speaking of annual exertions to meet an nual demands, and the direct tax towards these an nual demands, I say, after long consideration of the subject, ought to be an income-tax, without any dis tinction between the different sources whence it is derived.—(Hear, hear.) I would never consent to re lieve incomes derived from trade, or incomes derived from prefessions, for the purpose of throwing an in vidious, and, as I think, unjust, burden on what is called realised property.—(Rear, hear.) The taxes which had been repealed or reduced, fell, eertainly, as heavily upon the tradesman and upon the professional man, as upon the owner of realised property. There is no distinction made between these various classes in the duties upon articles of luxury, in the window du ties, in the assessed taxes; why, as to the income-tax, are you to throw the whole or main onus upon real property? To say nothing of the pledged faith we owe to funded property, every reason of policy is against the oppressing that class of property with a heavier share of taxation than is called for from trading or professional incomes, in the way of direct taxation.—(Hear.) In a word, I consider that no principle can be more just, or more free from objec tion, than that which we have acted upon; and I should greatly dread the introduction of any other principle. —(Hear, hear.) I come now to the question raised by the Hon. Member opposite, whether or no it is expe dient that this tax should be continued for three years, or only for one year. I shall give my decided support to the Government in maintaining the tax for the period of three years.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Montrose says one year only ; and with his (Tiniest that an immense reduction may be effected in the extent of our naval and military forces, that proposition is con sistent enough ; but how the Hon. Member Tor War wickahire can vote for the one year amendment I do not so well understand.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) This Hon. Gentleman announces that he shall give his cordial support to Government in maintaining the full comple ment of forces they judge necessary under existing circumstances. Now if these forces are to be so main tained—and I am decidedly of opinion they should be --(Hear, hear) —I cannot foresee such a reduction in the estimates as will enable us to dispense with the income tax on the sth of April, 1849.—(Hear.) True the Hon. Member for Warwickshire, while he said he would re tain the full naval and military complements, intimated there were other items on which great reductions could be made ; but, on coming to particulars, we find that the Hon. Member's contemplated retrenchments apply just to the subject of education charities, and to money paid to the Hon. Member for Bolton for inquiring into an improved mode of keeping the national accounts.—(Laughter.) Now, as to the money paid to the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that is clearly irrecoverable.—(Laughter.) And as to the other possible retrenchment of the Hon. Member for Warwickshire, I don't believe it would realise a saving of 1,000/. a year, manifestly a small matter. That large reductions may be made in the details of the naval and military expenditure I am clearly of opinion —(Hear, hear)—and I am equally of opinion that economy in the details of other departments may be introduced. Nor would I advocate the continuance of the income-tax for three years, if I thought its continuance would operate against the most strict and searching inquiry into the economy which may be effected in all the public depart ments; but, at the same time, I would have the House and the country feel that there is a degree of economy which in the end proves anything but economical.— (Hear, hear.) In ;1835 the estimates, indeed, were lower than they have been since; but, observe, we were very shortly afterwards compelled to raise them very mate rially.—(Hear, hear.) I shall support the Government proposition, because, while deeply impressed with the necessity for economy, I am, on the other hand, as deeply impressed with the essential necessity of maintaining the public credit.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen opposite, indeed, say, " Oh, as to the public credit, there can be no question about maintaining that; we propose to revise the whole system of taxation, to apportion the taxes more equally, but we entirely concur in the universal feeling as to the necessity of maintaining the public credit." Yes, very true ; but I would rather have the income-tax in reserve, before we set about considering an amended system of taxation. If a new system of taxation were to be proposed in February next, with the certainty of the income-tax expiring on the sth of April following, notwithstanding the profession of your determination to support the public credit, I should be rather apprehensive on the subject, should the new scheme by any possibility turn out a failure.—(Hear, hear.) On the other hand, should the new scheme answer, it will be very easy to repeal the income-tax. At all events, the fact of this reserve against necessity will give the opportunity for more mature consideration of the subject, without shaking the confidence of the public creditor.—(Hear, hear.) I cannot conceive it possible that there will be such a reduction in the public expenditure, as will enable us to dispense with five millions of revenue; nor do I think it likely that you will be prepared, by next February, with any scheme which will produce you such an amount at so little cost in the collection, and so little onerous in itself, as is the tax now before us. Had the Government found it abso lutely necessary to persevere in the larger taxation they at first proposed, in order to avoid debt in time of peace, so great is my dread of the incurrence of such a debt, 1 would have supported them; but at the same time I am far from blaming them that after the decided expression of public opinion on the subject they withdrew the addi tional 2 per cent.—(Hear, hear.) With reference to the probability of an increase in the customs revenue, there was certainly never such a combination of circumstances affecting that revenue as that combination of circum stances which has existed during the past two years, and by which the trading and commercial energies of this country have been paralysed.—(Hear.) I find it, therefore, my duty, in this period of commercial de• pression, to assort my continued adherence to the prin ciples on which the remissions I effected took place.— (Cheers.) I have the firmest confidence in the justice of those principles.—(Hear.) Their operation has been impeded by that combination of circumstances to which I have referred, the necessity of supporting the people of one of these islands by ten millions of loan, raised here, the necessity of importing enormous quantities of foreign corn for the consumption of our own people, the;derange meats, commercial and monetary, which affected our whole commercial and trading community; but these facts, so far from making me regret the proposals which I made respecting the improvement of our commercial policy —so far from making: me distrust the princi ples on which those proposals were made, however dis heartening the facts may seem in some respects, have led me to a totally oppo s ite conclusion—have made me rejoice that when the relaxations were proposed they were adopted.—(Hear, hear.) I still retain a confident expectation that the energies of thi s coun try will rise superior to its present commerci a l depression, and that we shall live to see the time when the revenue of the country shall flourish as it did iu 1845, and even with increase.—(Hear, hear.) And here let me observe, that one of my reasons for assenting to the renewal of the income tax for three years, is precise]; the re collection that it was immediately after the year of pros perity to which I refer that the heavy debt and the paralyzing circumstances under which we now suffer were thrown upon us.—(Hear.) I must own further, that I am influenced in my support of the tax's continu ance for three years very materially by reference to the wonderful events which have taken place within a very TilE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EArENING, MARCH 7; 8848. recent period in a neighbouring country.—(Hear, lies r.) I regard them as amply justifying this country in not consenting to incur any risk of a large debt in th is period of three years. I should feel it to be utterly iet consistent with sound policy, with my sense of duty, t,•l make any detailed reference to events which must have, filled all here present with utter astonishment.—(Hear.)) Of this, let me say, I am perfectly confident, that the• true policy of this country will consist in the most. complete, the most absolute abstinence from all interfere• ence whatever in the internal affairs of the country in. which such a wonderful revolution has taken place. I hope we shall continue to be enabled to exercise the rites of hospitality.—(Hear, hear.) I think it is of the utmost importance that this country should always be s enabled to offer a refuge to the victims of political con valsions.—(Hear, hear.) England has been such in other times, and I trust it will long continue to be so. Where the hospitality of this country has been taken advantage, of to disturb the peace of other monarchies, I have ale ways protested against such an abuse being permitted to, exist; and I am equally ready to take the sane course with respect to a Republic.—(Hear, hear.) I earnestly I trust that this place of refuge, and that the hospitality accorded to fugitives in this country, will not be abused; and that ell parties will set their faces against any in trieeies that may bo set on foot; for I hold that the same rule which applied to a monarchy is equally good with I respect to a Republic. I confess that 1 heard with the greatest satisfaction the declaration from her Ma jesty's Government that they were resolved to abstain from all interference in the internal affairs of France.—(Hear, hear.) If this determination be carefully and strictly observed, it will discou rage all other nations from any attempts at inter ference. I cannot but bear it in my mind whilst regard ing the present state of things, that France is at this moment enduring the throes of a great experiment; and I therefore am nut disposed to attach any importance to the heats which manifest themselves in the journals of that country. I look with considerable interest at the position of the Provisional Government that is estab lished, and I cannot refrain from expressing my most earnest hopes that those who may be called upon to , govern the destinies of the French people will content themselves with directing their efforts to their own social condition. I sincerely hope that they may succeed in constituting a Government which shall be strong and permanent in itself; and that whilst they endeavour to reconcile the perfect independence of their country with the rights secured by existing treaties, they will not set an example of aggression, or of that desire for territorial aggrandisement which will, if manifested, peril the peace of Europe, and inflict an irreparable injury on the whole of the civilised world.—(Cheers.) Lord G. BENTINCK reminded the House that when the Rigtit Hon. Baronet who had just sat down passed so high an eulogy upon his sagacity and foresight in respect to his commercial policy, he had totally omitted to state that in May, 1841, he had supported two resolutions, on the first of which Lord Melbourne's Government was defeated in the proposition for admitting foreign slave sugar at a fixed duty of 12s. The Right lion. Baronet then said that not only the interests but the honour of England demanded the continued exclusion of slave grown sugars, whereas in 1846 the House and the nation learned from the Right Hon. Baronet's lips that neither the House nor the interest of England required any sueh exclusion to be kept up.—(Cheers.) But then came another resolution affecting the duty on foreign corn, which the Government of Lord Melbourne pro posed to fix permanently at Bs., and the Right Hon. Baronet opposed that proposition successfully, whilst he now asserted that his never should repent of having finally abolished all duty on foreign corn. He (Lord G. Bentinek) might truly say that the Honourable Members around him would never cease to repent their misplaced confidence in the Rignt Hon. Baronet. —(Cheers from the benches near the Noble Lord.) The Right Hon. Baronet had endeavoured to prevail on the House to believe that he had introduced the income-tax, in 1842, with a view to the commercial reforms in the tariff to which he had referred. But when the Right Hon. Baronet brought in the tax, he stated most dis tinctly, that whilst he did certainly contemplate fixing the duration of the tax for five years, yet, as ho did not intend it to produce more thee was absolutely necessary to coyer the deficiencies in the revenue, ho should only ask the House to confirm the tax for three years. Then again, in 1845, the Right Hon. Baronet told the House that he had 5,000,0001. of taxes at his disposal, and it was for them to say whether they would maintain the national defences, and the troops and seamen required, as shown by the estimates. It was then in the com petence of the House to reject the income-tax altogether, but the Right Hon. Baronet never gave any intimation of his intention to let foreign corn in free of duty.— (Loud cries of " Divide.") The Right Hon. Baronet gave no intimation in 1845 of his intention to revoke that protection which he came into power to maintain, and the protection party supported the re-imposition of the income-tax in that year, because they were befooled and beguiled be the Hon. Member for Tamworth. The Noble Lord here entered into a general review of the sugar-duty question and its results, comparing the latter with the prophecies of commercial prosperity uttered by the Right Hon. Baronet at Tamworth, in 1847.—(Loud cries of " Question.") He had supported the property-tax in 1845, because by its aid largo excise imposts were done away with, and with them a great number of excise officers ; but the duty on cotton was a tax which would cost nothing in the collecting, because the tide-waiters who were put on board the ships to prevent the smuggling of tobacco could collect the cotton duties. His argument was that the taxes we had remitted were taxes on the industry of the foreigner, and that their remission had produced no corresponding relief to the home consumer. Such had been th case with tallow ; and on brandy, which previous to the reduction was to be had for is. 9d. the gallon in bond, had in 1847 risen to ss. 11d. He would also ask the Hon. Member for Liverpool whether the increase in the consumption of brandy, en which that Hon. Member had congratulated himself, had not been met by a corresponding decrease in the con sumption of British spirits and malt liquor ? In the article of timber a similar result might be traced ; the price, which was 48s. the load before the reduction of duty, had since then risen to 59e. 4d., and the foreigner had pocketed 421,0001. by the change.—(Hear, hear.) The consequence of the alteration in the sugar duties had been, that while foreign slave-grown sugar went up 101. a ton British colonial went down 71. There was also the corn duty, which in the last two years had produced 850,0001. a year, and if they had preserved them last year they would have produced 1,747,0001. His propo sitions did not tend to the reduction of the revenue. No one in that House was more ready in times like the present to keep unimpaired the resources of the country. At the same time he was no advocate of aggression on France, for there was no gentleman in that House who had looked with greater admiration on the moderation recently displayed by the French people.—(hear, hear.) Ile did not believe that history recorded an instance of conduct so magnanimous and so chivalrous as had been displayed by the entire people of France.—(Loud cheers.) And so far as their internal government was concerned, he would not have the impertinence to pass an opinion as to whether recent changes were for the better or otherwise. He would only express his heartfelt wish that the republican insti• tions might prove as advantageous to that country, where property was so subdivided, as they had to our transatlantic rivals.—(Hear, hear.) But while he ad mired the moderation and chivalrous courage of the French, he could not forget that the latter virtue was often acco mpanied by a thirst for military glory. He could not but remember how efficiently the spirit-stirring words, a E n avant A la gloire," had been used by Napo leon; and it was impossible to anticipate what ambitious leaders might arise out of the present struggle to assert the right of France to the Rhenish boundary.—(Hear.) That boundary England was bound to preserve by treaties from which her honour would not permit her to swerve.—(oh, oh.) To maintain the frontier of Prussia we might be dragged into a war, and for that reason he, for one, would not consent to leave the military and naval defences of the country in a weak or inefficient ostentation safe was to be brave, and to a dignified attitude of compde s back to th e quest i on o f taxation, he support e the m o ti on o f the Hon. Member state.fv oe' preserveanr s PMontrose.eTpahr Butea withoutt (3 to l secret f oti e. ° they ti would only retain the duty which came in force tha t da y ( th e corn duty) it would produce 850 0 t the and adu duty on Balti c ti m ber, which would only a foreigner, wo u ld b e wort h 700,000/. Cot ton, without injury to manufacturers, might produce O 0 l e . ; and, besides, a tax on American cotton would pro d u ction in India. I n l ay i ng on t hi s d u ty f 6 :6 s e o t , Bo o hr O oi O ut id only be following at a modest distance the i practce of the United States , which had laid an ad valo rem' duty of 28 per cent. on our exports. He would o nly follow them at a mo dest dis tance, for while these l duties were 28 per cent., he did not propose to exceed ten or twelve per cent. on the value. Tallow was one of the enimpose a duty of 10 per her. He would tax nothing colonial—(Hear , hear)—and on all the other great articles of import he would impose ct. articles Fo r o e n ign which wool h was va would s an another. pose the same rate of duty.—(Hear, hear.) On the foreign manufactures he would impose a duty of 30 p er ce nt.; and there were per cent.—(Hear, bear.) What would be th e result o f an import duty of 30 per cent. on foreign sil ks few of e s our imposed articles so of low manufacture dt: ty as u 30 Pon which the United might be judged of from what had been the result of th l reductiou s of duty made by the Right Hon. Baronet. n 1836 there wore 14,000 looms going in Spitalfields. In 1845 , when the trade hacl been ruined by the foreign competition the Right Hon. Baronet had by his laws encouraged, there were moment there wore By thos e c h anges i n th e g ;,000 families. The law, not only had 169,000/. a year of r evenue b een l os t been robbed of b lo u , t o 3,5 - 00 (00 11 of these hearNrorkanind g. at this in this article, 01., or same disastrous result had foll owed the reduction of du ties on shoes and other articles of ma nufacture; and yet, t he but means the o of employing bcl with these facts before him--with the knowldge that thousands of the hard-working operatives of this country had been reduced to a state of ruin and destitution by his acts, he had the heart to tell them that ho did not repent the policy which had entailed upon his country men so much distress and suffering. _(Hear, hoar.) He remembered well when the Bight Hon. Baronet told the Cornish miners, when they c omplained of his bringing in foreign competion against them, that they must con sider the advantage he gave them in admitting goose feathers duty free—(Bear, and a laugh.) —that they would be enabled to sleep on down beds.—(Laughter.) What were the down beds on which they were now re posing ?He need not go so far as Cornwall—he would take Staffordshire; and there he found that out of 160 furnaces 60 were out of blast, and the miners who were to have enjoyed such unheard-of luxury found that they were either thrown out of work altogether or their wages were reduced fifteen per cents—(Hear, hear.) Except the usureri—the representatives of the money bags—he knew of no trade that had prospered under the operation of the Right Hon. Baronet's free-trade policy. —(Cries of " Divide.") The country was in the last gasp before the Chancellor of the laeheguer would consent to remove the Bank restrictions, in order to bring the rate of interest below eight per cent. There was another tax in which a considerable in crease might be obtained at a less cost, perhaps, than by any other means. An additional penny on the postage would prodnce, he believed, 850,0001.—(Loud cries of "No, no.") Why, that would not be so great a grievance as the income-tax.—(Hear, hear.) When. the reduction was made, it was estimated by the per moters that within three years the number of letters would increase 5f times, and that 2i millions would be added to the revenue ; but had these predictions been fulfilled ?—(Cries of " Question," and " Divide.") The question was, whether or not the country was to have imposed upon it for three years longer the income-tax, which had been extremely odious to the coun try, and not the less so because on each pre vious occasion of its being put on first is ' 1842, and then again in 1845—the country had been distinctly promised that it should be but for a. short time.—(Hear, hear.) Faith had not been kept. with the country in this matter, and the people were dissatisfied, as they had a right to be when states men deceived them by false promises. —(Hear, hear.) Either they must retrace their steps and raise taxes from foreign imports, or, if the luxuries as well. as necessaries of life were to be reduced, let them takz 25 per cent. from the incomes of those who lived on tf if , taxes of the country.—(Much cheering, mingled with cries of " Divide'') When they feund the wages of the Spitalfield's weaver reduced 20 to 25 per cent--whe 20,000 operatives were out of work in Manchester for months together, and these meetings of which be bad an account in his hand—(Oh, oh)—but would not read at that late hour, were being held to consider whether or not the operatives of Lancashire and Cheshire were to be sent across the Atlantic to share the fate of the - wretched Irish emigrants—(Hear, hear)—they must not allow the large birds of prey to escape scot !free with their large salaries and cheap luxuries.—(Hear, and cries of " Oh, oh" " Question," and "Divide.") If this was to be made the cheapest country in the world, cheap because the wages of labour were ground down to the lowest possible rate, let the aalaries of those who fattened on the public taxes be reduced also. Let 25 per cent. be taken off the salary of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, who, being a free-trader, himself, could scarcely object when it was necessary to maintain his own views. And let all the other public officers suffer a similar re duction.—(Hear, hear.) What he recommended was to allow this income-tax to remain another year, and in the mean time ascertain whether they could not reduce the expenditure of the country without impairing the efficiency of our establishments, and, if not, whether they should re-impose this tax for a still longer period or have recourse to a different system of taxation alto gether.—(Hear, hear.) He would concludel by calling upon his friends around him to remember "That an honest man might once take bad advice, But idiots only could be deceived twice." Mr. BROTHERTON, amid loud cries for a division, moved the adjournment of the debate. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped a division would now be allowed to be taken.—(Cries of " Go on," "Adjourn," and "Divide.") Strangers were ordered to withdraw ; but after a few moments they were re-admitted, no division taking place. Mr. WILSON said, though he should be sorry to in commode the Government, yet this being the stage at which many Hon. Gentlemen who had not yet spoken were anxious to express their opinions, he could not— especially after the speeches of that evening—which had given the debate a turn some Hon. Members had not expected—(Hear, hear)—think it proper that a division should be taken until all who wished to speak should have had an opportunity of doing so.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY observed that if the Hon. Gentleman did not propose to address his remarks to the question of whether the tax should be continued for three years or ono year, but to the general question, he would have full opportunity to speak hereafter.—(Hear.) Mr. DISRAELI called upon the House to remember that the Right Hon . Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had been entering into the merits of the new commercial system to which he and his friends believed the present defi ciency was owing. It was necessary, therefore, they should have an opportunity of showing their belief that there would, but for that system, have been no necessity for this tan.—(Hear, and cries of " Divide.") Mr. WILSON intended to speak to the motion before the House—that of the period for which the tax should be continued, for in that the whole question was involved.—(Hear.) He agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet that if they did not continuo this tax it would be impossible to carry out the policy which had of late years governed the House. Mr. WAKLEY was decidedly in favour of an ad journment, though not on the same grounds as the Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken. If the tax was to be continued for three years Gervernment was bound to give some substantial reasons for it, which they had not yet done.—( Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con sented to the adjournment, and The debate was then adjourned till Friday next, and the House resumed. PASSENGERS BILL. Mr. LABOUCHERE having moved that the House go into Commtttee on this Bill, Sir P. Nugent, Sir F. Burke, and other Irish Mem bers, urged its postponement, which was opposed by Mr. ' M. J. O'Connell, Mr. Maunsell, Mr. Aglionby, and Mr. Cardwell, on the ground that as the emigration season was approaching, it was of great importance that the question should be settled, as much evil would arise from further delay and uncertainty. Mr. Forster and Mr. A. Stafford thought it would be better to give up the Bill altogether, as there was no probability of its being passed for several weeks. After a conversation which lasted half an hour on the propriety of going into Committee, Mr. %Yawn, who said he was opposed to the Bill altogether, moved as an amendment, amidst much laughter, that the Speaker leave the chair that day fort night. The House divided, when there appeared— For the motion 99 For the amendment . Majority —93 The House then went into Committee, but Mr. WAWN protested against their being called upon to proceed in Committee with a Bill which had only been delivered that morning, and moved that the Chairman report progress and ask leave to sit again. Mr. LABOUCHERE felt that the interests of humanity demanded of him to persist, if supported by the Ifouso—(Hear, hear, and cries of " Go on")—more particularly as he had reason to believe that it would be generally concurred in by the shipowners. Captain ELLIOT said he would sit there until four o'clock in the morning if necessary, in order that the Bill might be passed through Committee. Sir R. FERGUSON, although opposed to the original Bill, supported it in its amended form. After some discussion, as to the evils of further delay, Mr. News consented to withdraw his motion, and the Bill passed through Committee. CONSOLIDATION OF PRISONS. On the motion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL, a Bill was brought in to amend an Act for consolidating the Queen's Bench, Fleet, and Marshalsea Prisons, and for regulating the Queen's Prison. AGRICULTURAL CUSTOMS COMMITTEE. The following Members were appointed on this Com mittee :—Mr. Pusey, Mr. Newdegate, Mr. Stafford, Mr. E. Denison, Mr. T. Egerton, the Earl of Arundel and Surrey, Mr. Henley, Mr. Hayter, Mr. Bouverie, Sir C. Lemon, Mr. W. Miles, Mr. Colvile, Mr. Burroughes, Mr. Drummond, and Sir J. Trollope. The House then adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'Clock. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Covonona. MONDAY MARCII 6 . SEVERN NATIOATION IMPROVEMENT COMMIfi. SION BILL. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time :"—Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day six mouths." Question put, " That the word ' now' stand part of the Question." ['he House divided:— MINORITY—AYES, 91. Adderley, C. 13. Fox, W.J. Filkinrton, James Arkwright, G. Fuller, A. E. Monde's, W. R. Arundel, Earl of Gasken, J. M. Power, Dr. Bailey, Joseph Graham. Sir James Raphael. Alexander Bailey, Joseph, Jan. Hardcastle, J. A. Roudieshatn, Lord Barrington, Viscount Hay, Lord John Ricardo, J. L. Bellow, R. M. llayter, W. G. Ricardo, Osman lionbovr,!John Heathcote, Sir W. Robinson, Geerge Birch, Sir Thomas Hill, Lord Marcus Rushout,.Captaln Blakemore, R. Hughes, W. B. Sanders, George Bowring, Dr. Hume, Joseph Seholetield. William Boyle, Colonel 1 Humphery, Ald. Sidney, Thomas , Brackley, Visoinnt Inglis, Sir°lt. - 1 Smith, Tenon Bremridge.:Richard Ireland, Thomas J. Stanstleld, W. R. C. Bright, John Jackson, William Staunton, Sir G. Brotherton,y. Kershaw, James Strutt, Edward Brown, W. Labouchero, H enry Thesiger, Sir F. Carew, W. P. Langston, J. . Thompson, Colonel Childers, J. W. Lascolles, W. 5. Thompson, Aid. Clay, James Lemon, Sir Charles Thornoly, T. Cobden, R. Littleton, E. R. Townshend. Jelin Colvile, C. R. Locke, Joseph Turner, E. Cubittt, William Mackinnon, W. A. Verner, Sir W. Doering, John Maitland, T.I Villiers, Charles Dlvett, E. Marshall, William Walmsley, Sir J. Drumlanrig, Vie. Alastennan, J. Ward, 11. G. Drummond, H. Melgund, Yisoonnt Willoughby, Sir N. Duncan, Viscount Mitchell, T. A. Duncuft, John 4 Molesworth, Sir W. TELLI&J. Edwards, Henry Mowatt, Francis Spooner, R. Evans, William Ord, W. Ingestre, VlScennt i Fordyce, A. 1). Fatten, J. W. MAJORITY—NOES, 104. Alady, , T. N. Emlyn, Viscount Racks, C W. Adair, Hugh E. Ewart, William Paget, Lord;George Anson, Viscount Fagan, William Pendarves, Edward Baldock, E. 11. Farrer, James Finney, W. Baring, Henry Fitzroy, Henry Powell, Col. Barnard, E. G. Forester, Q. C. Pugh. David Bateeon, Thomas Fox, S. L. Rice, E. E. Beckett, WilNara Gaskell, J. M. Rufford, FrazeiA Bentinck, Lord G. Gore, W. 0. Serape, G. F. Berkeley, 11. Goring, Charles Seynaer, Henry Etas' Berkeley, Grantley Gower, Leveeen Shelburne, Earl of Blackall, S. W. ll Gr on an e b a y ge , , M G zr i q i u . is w e . f Bolder°, Henry Broadley, Henry: Healey, J. W.: Brown, Humphrey Hervey, Lord A. S o merville, Sir IT. Bruce, C. L. C. filidyart, R. C. Buck, L. W. Buller, Sir J. T. Bunbury, W. Burke, Sir T. J. Burrell, Sir C. Cavendish, G. H. Charters, Francis Clive, IL B. H Holland, i i i i i l b it Hood,rt n d d t s 3 o b x v r n Y5 ,' di I r u j'R'A t oTelb. George gelnra Rt. T. e r Taylor IS ' ' T SLBt:LtnY a i re al aaa'ar bo lli e"tetli o r irs: c, Yrr t, rp yllnde n ' ' Stanley, ,ThomasJl Cej , 'EG F, II . 'A. S . V •Trd H .b e i ruY' r w. K g .. 1.1 laHa'' j t:: . Adt B B u. ; . Codrington, Sir W. Vane, Lord H. LI thi (L 3), i f i Ya sa a h ' g G °: re:k r : nen : ' g n , Ce o G:z i e • le ,. °En' J n ; 1 I F. Waddington,lTYvYan' Sir R. H. B. Cannily, Col. Cerbally, H. E. Cowper, NT F. Wall, C. B. Crlpps, W. Manners, Lord G. Wawn, J. T. Davie, Sir IL Martini J. Wilson', Matthew I Deedes, W. Wyld, James Wynn, Sir W. Wyvill, Marmaduke Do uro,DlD)or. e ed r l Be Duncan, M , John GeorgeJo George Marquis h n of P. lc i ki l I - c il a l l e " i d e l ' , Norris,P I 1. John W . M. David . TELLERS. Newport, Viscount Hope, Henry T. Dunne, Francis I'. O'flahorty, Anthony Perkaley, Captain SKETCHES OF THE FRENCH REVOLUTIONARY LEADERS. (Concluded from the IVeehly Dispatch.) lII.—M. ARAG O. ( This gentleman, who is the first astronomer of the age, was born in the year 1786, and the greater portion •of his life has been devoted to study and passed in scien tific pursuits. During the last few years he has, ,however, appeared conspicuously upon the political .stage ; and from the first moment that he set foot in the Chamber of Deputies he declared him self a Republican. Immediately joining the small but staunch band headed by Garnier Pages and Dupont de l'Eure, Arago proclaimed war against the re-actionary policy of Louis Philippe and his Ministry; and no liberal Deputy spoke more boldly from the tribune than he. When the atrocious September Laws (as the coercive measures in respect to the Press were denominated), came on for discussion, Arago de clared that the ruin of the House of Orleans was thereby placed within the range of prophecy ; and when called to order by the President, he bent an indignant look upon that functionary, and proceeded with his argu ments in a strain that produced a marvellous impression upon the Chamber. But, perhaps, the most brilliant oratorical display of this gentleman was on the occasion of a learned or literary debate that arose about twelve years ago in the Chamber of Deputies, and in the course of which Arago found himself pitted against De Lamar tine. We shall permit a French historian to relate this incident in his own florid style:—" M. Arago, the illus trious representative of science amongst us, attacked the worship of antiquity, and placed the learned men and the philosophers of modern times far before the masters of art and of imagination. M. de Lemartino could not control himself at a speech which displaced from their pedestals Homer, and Virgil, and Plato, and Cicero, — all the poets of antiquity—all the gods of his youth. And with what genius, with what prevailing grace, with what an earnest and intimate conviction of the spirit, did he handle the cause of taste and imagination that cause which was thenceforth his own ! M. Arno, in turn, replied with admirable temper, with sound logic, and with a deep conviction also ; it was a combat in the lists, with the arms of courtesy, between contemporary science and contempo rary literature, each represented by its most distin guished professor. The Chamber gazed upon this elegant and loyal passage of arms, applauded the com batants—and found both in the right. That was a brilliant day of repose and reaction amidst our political 1 annals. The public business, to be sure, was not a bit advanced by it; but the world had the opportunity of hearing two men of genius speak their own language—and the result was two fine discourses the more, and perhaps one law the less." Arago is a man endowed with all the strength of an unbending spirit—self-possessed, even amidst that generous political enthusiasm which made him a Republican. When the Pritchard Indemnity Bill was brought in, ho denounced it as "as the most detest able job that had ever disgraced a servile, truckling, and unprincipled Ministry," and declared that " war with England were even preferable to such a degrada tion,"—although his principles had always been for peace. A contemporary writer has described Arago as " an excellent patriot, a sworn enemy of privileges, a hater of monopoly, a friend to free trade, and an ardent defender of the rights of the people." Such, indeed, he has consistently shown himself ; and now we find him associated with De Lemartino, between whom and himself that "loyal passage of arms" took piece,— associated, too,with those fine republican leaders, amongst whom he took his seat the very fi rst d ay t h at he entered the Chamber of Deputies. M. Arago has written a most admirable and much esteemed biography of our cele brated improver of the steam-engine—James Watt; his works upon astronomical and other scientific matters are numerous; and he has long filled the honourable post of perpetual secretary of the Academy of Sciences. He is likewise a member of the Office of Longitude, and president of several scientific bodies. IV.—M. CREMIEUX. It is a somewhat singular fact that at a moment when the English Legislature is discussing the question of removing Jewish disabilities—as if there were any question at all relative to the propriety, wisdom, and justice of such a measure—a Jew should be holding a conspicuous place in the Provisional Government of France. Yet such is the case ; and the gentleman alluded to is the subject of the present sketch. More remarkable and more significant still is the circumstance that M. Cremieux is Minister of Justice, a department with which is associ ated that of public worship. Thus the gallant and liberal Parisians are not afraid to entrust the control of the Catholic Church to the hands of a Jew, while, in Eng land, Sir Robert Inglis, and the other old women of the same claas, are whining over the probable destinies of the Established Church and the Protestant Creed should Jews be admitted into the British Parliament. " They order these things better in France," we may observe with Sterne. M. Cremieux has long sat in the Chamber of Deputies for the Electoral College of Chinon; and from the very first he has proved himself a staunch friend to the people and to political freedom. To the Guizot Cabinet he was an unflinching opponent—losing no opportunity to assail its ini quitous policy, and to proclaim the necessity of radical reform in every department and institution of the State. He was ever most energetic in supporting DL Duvergier d'Haurranne's annual motion for the ex clusion of paid functionaries (the Ministers excepted) from the Chamber; and he advocated the broadest and most comprehensive principles of free trade. When the game-law, initiated in the Chamber of Peers, came on for discussion in the Chamber of Deputies, Cremieux gave it his most vigorous opposition ; but, finding that the Ministers were resolved to carry it by means of their iniquitously packed ma jority, he fought hard to procure the suppression of the clause which exempted Crown lands from the provisions of the measure. In this aim he was successful; but the Peers restored the obnoxious paragraph. When Du chafe! made his memorable declaration, throe weeks ago, to the effect that no reform would be granted, and that the Government had resolved to put down the banquets, Cremieux called out, " There is blood in this r and he prophesied truly. It was he, also, who encountering Louis Philippe and the ex-Queen Amelie in the middle of the Place de la Concorde, on the Thursday of their flight, recom mended them to depart immediately, "no hope for them being left." He then proceeded to the Chamber of Deputies, where, rejecting the appeal made in behalf of the Count of Paris, he advocated—nay insisted upon, the formation of a Provisional Government. Thus, con sistent to the last, Cremieux used all his influence to lead France to the fulfilment of her highest destinies in the establishment of a Republic. V.—M. DUPONT DE L'EURE. This distinguished patriot and staunch Republican deserves a similar eulogy to that which we have passed upon De Lamartine—to the effect that his private life is as pure as his public career has been honourable and glorious. He has reached the advanced age of 81, hav ing been born on the 27th of Feb., 1767; and, though young at the time, he acted a conspicuous and noble part in the Revolution of 1792. From that period until the present date his life has been passed in the service of the Liberal cause, which ho has advocated unflinchingly, and often to his personal detriment and danger. But it would be impossible, in a limited sketch of this nature, to follow M. Dupont through all the varied and remark able phases of his existence. Suffice it to say that he has ever been true to those Republican opinions which he acquired and cherished while Louis XVI. yet sat upon the French throne. In the Revolution of 1830, M. Dupont took an active part, and was one of the eight Deputies to whom I have alluded in the sketch of Odillon Barrot. The establishment of a Republic was the hope which M. Dupont entertained ; and when he beard the design mooted by Lafitte in favour of the younger branch of the Bourbons, he sought General Lafayette at the Hotel de Ville, and said, " I understand that there is an intrigue going on to give the throne to the Duke of Orleans ; beware I for a Bourbon is sure to betray you " The warning was unfortu nately neglected, but the prediction remained—and has been fulfilled. M. Dupont was present when the follvw ing memorable dialogue took place between Lafayette and the ducal candidate for a crown:—" You know," said the General, " that I am a Republican, and that I consider the Constitution of the United States as the most perfect that has ever existed." "I think as you do," replied the Duke of Orleans, who would have uttered any falsehood at the moment in order to gain the object of his heart's ambition; " it is impossible to have passed two years, as I have done, in America, without being of that opinion; but do you think, in the situation of France, and according to general impressions, that it is proper for us to adopt it?" " What is at present necessary for the French people," returned Lafayette, "is a popular throne, surrounded with Republican institutions." "It is exactly so that I understand it," replied the Duke. After this conversation, Lafayette drew M. Dupont aside, ,and asked him what ho thought of it I stgliohoolod willthe same opinion," was the reply " ,the assuredly deceive you. The idea of a throne with a Republican basis would be r idiculous any where and in any case ; but when that idea is expressed by the li it is more—far more than ps of a Bourbon, may suspicious." The reader gather from this anecdote, that Dupont de l'Eu re is a far - seeing man, and that he knows too much of the world to " put any confidence in princes." A Lib e ral Deputy of such sagacity an d inde pendent spirit, and possessing talents, great could not do o th e rwise than shine in the French Chamber; and M. Dupont accordingly became one of the leaders of the Republican party. In 1842 his indignation knew no bounds when be beheld all the Deputies of the Eure voting in a most servile manner in favour of the Soult-Guizot Minis try; and after reproaching them bitterly for their conduct, which he stigmatised as a " scandal and a shame," he threatened to stand at the ensuing election for all the different places then represented by that menial crew whom he thus denounced. He kept his word, too, and was chosen by four Colleges of the Department of the Eure; but having subsequently to elect for which place be would sit, he chose Evreux. This incident aroused the bitterest wrath of the King and the Conservatives agair.st M. Dupont—but he cared nothing for their hos tility, and never lost an opportunity of exposing the selfish designs of the Monarch, and the corrupt policy of his creatures. When the " grand scene " took place last Thursday week in the Chamber of Deputies, and Sauzet (the President) abandoned the chair, M. Dupont de l'Eure was installed in the seat of honour, while the names of the members of the Provisional! tG.hoe- Ternment were read; and his own standing first on list, he became Prime Minister. There is no doubt but he will be chosen President of the Republic, when the National Assembly meets. VI.—M. LEDRU-ROLLIN- The Provisional Minister of the interior, who is the subject of this sketch, has not long been before the world as a politician; but during the few years of his public life, he has conducted himself in a manner calculated to insure the confidence of the French nation. An Itumnpromining Republican and a splendid orator—endowed with grey moral courage and a fine spirit, and ever giving bold utter. ance to his honest conviction, Ledru-Rollin is eminent calculated to become a leader in a great popular movement Besides, even though his political career has been shpt.t he has undergone a test, and was not found . wanting For when that fine old friend of freedom, Germ& Paget —the father of the present Mayor of Paris—died, Leda Rollin offered himself as his successor in the represents Lion of Mans. The address which he put forth to th, electors was replete with the most generous and fervii Republican sentiments ; and the Government set ever' engine of corruption to work in order to defeat hin But he was returned by a large majority ; and then h delivered a speech not merely echoing the opinions con tamed in his address, but enunc i at i ng a ll t h e b es t an , most logical reasons in favour of a democratic form c government. lie likewise made a masterly exposure c the selfish ambition of Louis Philippe, and the unpin cipled policy of his servile hirelings. The speech nc only produced a deep sensation at Mans, but throughot France ; and a pros( cutiou was instituted against bin He stood his trial, and was condemned to six month imprisonment. But as the Chambers were sitting, an his person as a deputy was inviolable, he coul not be arrested ; and the day before the usus prorogation took place he departed for Eng land or Ireland—we forget which—where he re ['mined during the recess. This plan he adopted fo five years, when the statute of limitations, which ex tends in France to such cases, purged him of the al leged offence and annihilated the sentence passed upo lion. M. Ledru-Rollin is married to an Irish lady; an this fact may have given an impulse to those sympa thies which on his part have been manifested toward the Emerald Isle. When the state trials took place it Dublin, M. L2dru-Rollin set on foot a subscription t , aid in defraying the expenses of the defence, and offeres to head a deputation to O'Connell, expressive of th good feelings of the French people; but the arch agi tator churlishly and rudely rejected the generous propo sals thus made to him. On the occasion of the Pritchart Indemnity, M. Ledru-Rollin attacked the Ministers with extraordinary vigour, and used epithets so strong that the President called him to order. But nothing could stop the torrent of his indignant eloquence; anc when the Chamber divided, the result led Duchatel tc whisper to a friend, who has since recorded the anec• dote in print, " Lediu-Rollins's speech lost us sent votes." This secession was immense in a Chamber at corruptly packed ; and the admission of the Minister of the Interior was a high compliment to the eloquent orator. M. Ledru-Rollin carried his independence in the Chamber to such an extent, that he would fearlessly blame even those with whom he usually acted, if he thought that they were in the wrong. Thiers and Odillon Barrot, being less liberal than he, were fre quently assailed by him; and Dufaure often came in tor a taste of his lash. His special organ has, for some time, been the Rejorme newspaper, in which ho possesses a considerable share. VII.—A GROUP OF EMINENT MEN. Armand Marrast, one of the secretaries to the Pro. visional Government, is the principal editor of thst National. He is of diminutive stature, and very thin, with a light graceful figure, and a pale pensive corm•• tenance, and his age borders on forty. He married, some years ago, an English lady—the daughter of M. Berti Ambrosse, the author. His talents are of the highest order; and the vigour of his style is appreciated by every one who is accustomed to peruse the " leaders" in the _National. A stern and unflinching Republican, he has suffered prosecution—persecution—and exile, on account of bis opinions, during the despot sway of Louis Philippe; and he now occupies a pround position in that democracy which he helped to establish. Generals Bedeau and Lamoriciere ar both young men, and earned a high military renown in Algiers. The former is an admirable tactician in the art of war: the latter is cha. racterised by a dauntless, dashing, Murat kind of bra very. Admiral Baudin, who is nominated to the com• maud of the Mediterranean fleet, is one of the finest naval officers in the French service. He can boast of never having been beaten, although he has seen a fait share of hard fighting. He commanded the squadron which, some years ago, blockaded Mexico; and his splendid achievements of taking the fort of Saint jinn, d'Ulloa in six minutes is well known. GarniSt Pagait i , the Mayor of Paris, has been an unflinching Republican ever since he was capable of forming opinions for him self. M. Carnot, the Provisional Minister of Public Instruction, is the son of the famous Conventionalist of the same name. He is now in his forty-sixth year. Albert, the artizan, was foreman in a factory in one of the faubourgs, and is a well-informed, enlightened, shrewd, and, at the same time, an unassuming man. TUE RIOT AN]) COLLISION WITH THE POLICE IN TRAFALGAR-SQUARE. - - [The greater portion of the following appeared in our Third Edition of last night:—] When our reporter returned from Trafalgar-square to The Sun Office, shortly before three o'clocist for the purpose of framing the report which appeared in our last edition, he was led to believe that the people would quietly disperse : indeed, a great many left the place, but it seems that as many as 10,000 or 12,000 persons remained, apparently with no settled purpose. No expressions, as far as we were enabled to ascertain, escaped the crowd that remained after the termination of the meeting, from which one might judge of the settled purpose which. they had in view. We heard one man cry out in French—" Death to Guizot," " Long live the Republic," but he seemed afraid that any one should observe that he was the utterer of such senti ments. At two o'clock, or a little after, a large number of of the police, consisting of detachments of the C, E, A, and B divisions, took up their position at different parts of the square, and proceeded simultaneously to clear away the crowd, who resisted the rather sum mary way in which they began to put their orders into; force. In fact the people—and it is right to state that a vast number of them were young mere and boys of the labouring class—did not relish the interference of the police, who, in order the better to accomplish their object, struck with too much violence, right and left. They were assailed with the most dis cordant yells, and we saw several stones thrown at them. Some were severely punished, and the truncheon of one was wrested from him and thrown into the basin amidst cheers. We were informed by several persons, who, seeing us with note-book and pencil, gathered round us to give infor mation, that a little boy was struck so violently across the head by one of the A division, of whose violence a great many complained to us, that he fell, and that the blood flowed from beneath his cap; also, that a young man was knocked down like a bullock by one of the same division, and carried off for dead. A man told ue that 63 A acted with the most unnecessary violence. It is right to mention that the tempers of the police were sorely tried. When we saw them. strike they did so with unnecessary force, and seemed a lt og ether to have lost their tempers. Manyi respect able persons with whom we entered into conversation, agreed in opinion that if the police had not interfered, no acts of violence would have been committed. Between thirty and forty men and boys have been taken into custody for assaulting the police in the execution of their duty. Some of them are severely wounded about the head. A great many were taken Is the Charing-cross Hospital to have their wounds dressed; a few came back with plasters on their heads and exhibited them to the mob. At the time we write, two persons, a man and a boy, are in the hospital, being treated for rather severe wounds ; but we were informed that it was not unlikely that they would be in a condition to be discharged in the course of the night. Inspector Baker, 19 A, had his eyelid severely cut with a stone; he received also a severe wound at the back of his head, and was obliged immediately to go to the surgeon of the force. About three o'clock that portion of the palings of the Nelson monument nearest the National Gallery was torn down, and a number of men and boys got on the plinth of the column. Two or three persons who stood on the margin of the basins were pushed in out of sheer fun, and did not escape without a severe ducking Police-constable 48 A had his eye severely cut, and the police are more or less injured. The greater portion of the police were withdrawn at half-past five o'clock, and as soon as they went order was in a great measure restored. We have seldom seen a mob more inveterate against the police. Had they not mustered in such large num bers some must have been killed, for there were bitter cries of " throw them into the basin." The people were exasperated at being struck with their truncheons. The fierce rushing to and fro of large knots of people chased by the police, now closing upon them, then struggling fiercely, and shouting with all their might, with the batons striking away in all direc tions, had the appearance of a formidable riot, looking down upon it from the steps of St. Martin's Church. The club windows, and in fact every available spot from which a view of the conflict could be obtained, was crowded. About five o'clock the great body of the mob left Trafalgar -square and proceeded along Pall-mall, into St. James's Park, breaking the lamps at intervals and tearing up the wooden rails placed round the young trees, with which latter they armed themselves. Pro ceediag up the Mall, they passed Buckingham Palace and returned through Westminster. In passing up Totbill street a baker's shop and beer shop were menaced by , the mob. The baker very discreetly emptied his shelves, and threw out all the bread he had to the mob, many of whom eagerly devoured it. The police coming up with the crowd here, took several of the ringleaders into custody. The great body returned up Whitehall to Trafalgar-square, where they remained in groups up to ten o'clock. A correspondent sends the following:— Eleven o'Clock.—At the present time the crowd,whicb, two hours since numbered in Trafalgar-square and its, vicinity near five thousand persons, has dwindled down to about fifteen hundred. The parties who are still lingering behind appear beat upon mischief. Imme diately under the equestrian statue at Charing-cross, le man, evidently insane, has been addressing about two hundred persons for the space of five minutes. His lan guage, however, was most inflammable; he advised the little knot of persons around him to go to Buckinghani Palace and insist upon the Charter being given; 'if it was refused, to do to the palace the same as the people in France did. He should like to see, provided they did not hurt the Queen, the throne burnt in the middle of Tra falgar-square. The speaker had hardly uttered his treasonable sentence than the approach of a body of police made him run from his position. As he departed he was loudly applauded by the rabble. Half-past Eleven.—The crowd has considerably dimi nished, and there is no appearance of any further mise chief being done. Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Excise, had an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yes. terday, at his offici al residence, in Downing-strect