The Sun. — London, England, 1852-05-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, • I tb , 'here was the power existing to raise the militia in i vornment, therefore, could very well afford to make at country. With regard to the billotted men the , some recognition of the rights of conscience. He trusted ease stood thus: they were liable by the existing militia i the House woold listen to the dictates; of justice, and 'SW to serve in Iteland, if wanted; whereas the volun- I not ca n u p on that individual to do the daty of a soldier leers were not so liable, but c a me onl y under the raw 1 to whore it refused the rights of a citizen.—(deer.) system, The Hon. Gentleman would then sic that it air. WALPOLE said the Hon. Gentleman had ad was necessary to make the volunteers liable to the same vocated his proviso o n two grounds; the first, that servie n as the ballotted men, evert body compelled to nerve in the militia should have Mr. BRIGHT said he would not give the Committee the rigaos of citiz mship extended to him, and the se the trouble of dividing, coed that there were g ccrtain persons who objected to Mr. M. GIBSON asked if he could have an estimate military service altogether, and who woul d, ther efore, be of the expense that would be thrown upon the parish and injured by the operation of this Bill. With regard to esunty rates by the proceedings un d er the Bill? The the first, w hether the rights of citizenship should be burdens that would be thus thrown upon real property conferred on thee° who were required to verve in the would be something extensive. militia, that was too large a question to be discussed on Mr. WALPOLE was not able to oive the estimate. that Bill. It could only be discus:led as part of a large The clause was then agreed to b measure which embraced all point s connected with the On clause 16, whi c h provides that ' w h ere men c annot circumstances under which persons Sh o uld serve—what be_ raised by voluntary enlistment her Majesty in Couu- regulations they should be under — what t heir occupa ell may order the ballot, Mr. CHARTERIS Lions, and whether having so served they should be en opposed the clause. Ho con- titled to have a vote for the county. But the way in tended that the ballot ought not to bo had recourse to which the Hon. Gentleman had worded his proviso put n except where there was an extreme necessity for it — a it quite out of the power of the Committee to admit it, l eee . ssity which in the present case did not exist. Bo• as if admitted it could only be as part of a more ex- I eying that the popularity of the measure would be in- tended measure. The effect of such a clause Would be creased by the omission of the principle, he moved that to narrow the basis of the militia very m aterially, and the words "to be raised by ballot" should be omitted, to throw the pressure on p a rticular classes. T his was ' Mr. WALPOLE said the reasons of his Hon. Friend so serious a matter that it could not bo entertained for !gor e very strong f or re taining the clause as it stood. a moment. Then, as to the Honourable Gentleman's The t fi rs t o bj ec t o f th e Bill was to have a certain number second objection—that persons who co nscientiously of men ; th e sec o n d t o raise them with as little disturb- ottjected to serve would decline to serve, and would once of the relations of life as possible. If they could thereby lose their rights of citizenship. But he appre be obtained by the v oluntary enlistment means proposed, hended there was a much graver question mooted in the so m uc h th e b e tte r; but, as it was primarily necessary t o l as t matter. F or if it w as to be consid ered a good °b raise these 80,000 men, the power of the ballot could not jection that persons were to be excused who had a re he omitted, us a last alternative. The Bill held ou t in- ligious objection to military serv ice—then they ought d_ ments to volunteer for the bounty, and, in th e f a il ure to be disposed to extend the pr i nc iple, and say, We will of that motive, to volunteer, lest the operation should not contribute our services personally, and w compel those who mi g ht no t o th erw i se serve . U nder to pay towar d s ge tting others to do that which will refuse re be f e u b se_ the se circumstanc es , h e could not consent to omit the scientious grounds we decline to would be equally do." If conscientiou s compulsory clauses, scruples we re to be admitted, they Mr. PE fO thought th e G overnmen t wou ld d o a ll t h a t urge d with equal force, w hether as respected perso n o r was necessary if they tried the volunteer system until purse. The question was so much larger than was in next session. If it did not succeed by that time, he was tended by the p roviso, and as the effect of it would be of opinion that it would be better to increase the standing to narrow the basis of the militia to the great inj , i ry of army. Ho bore testimony to the loyalty of the working the country , he felt convinced the House would re.use to classes, and stated that on the 10th April, 1848, he had adopt it. tendered the adhesion of 7,000 men in his own employ - Mr. MOWATT was not surprised at the anxiety felt meat to the Go vernmen t in the interest of - internal order by the Government to sheltie by any moons through the iu the kingdom. Bill.—(Hear, hear, and Ohl) He acquitted the Hon. h Ma Ew ART sa id i t wou ld b e bettor t o ma k e an ad- Gentleman opposite of havin g ori g inated such a mass of dition to the regular army than to demoralise the contradictions and absurdities as were contained within People. He thought the wisest thing would be to in- the four corners of the Act. He should like Govern crease the artill er y, if an addition to the military force meat to ex p lain wh y Irelaud was excluded from the Bill. of the country was deemed necessary. If the Govern- He could not fanc y the reason why the Government had meat limited the Bill to voluntary enlistment, it would no t th ou ght right to trust the people of Ireland with not be so unpopular as it was certain to become with the arms in time of peace; but why Scotland, also, had been C ompulsory clauses, excluded, ho could not understand. For such a trum- Mr. FOX sa id, in yielding the compulsory clauses the pery measure of defence as the present, it was not worth Government would give up no real power, as they had w hile to incite the p o p ular hatred against the very name substantially agreed to confine themselves to the v olun- of a militia. The only persons who would enrol them teer syst em until the next year. By insisting on the re- selves in the proposed militia would belong to the dan tention of those clauses, moreover, they would most ma- gerous classes, and they would be found good for little terially damage the volunteer system, while they would or nothing. The Bill was disgraceful not only to the c ast apprehension among the working classes in this Government but to the House; and he thought the Right country. Hon. Secretary for the Homo Department ought to re- Mr. HUDSON had supported the Bill to the present consider the proposed proviso, if he was sincere in saying tim e , but feeling satisfied that the force nece ssar y would that he wished to obtain a class of men on whom do se raised by volunteering, he did not think it necessary pendence could be placed. to arm tho Government with the ballot. Hill consti- The O'GORMAN MAHON said he only rose to pro tuents were all against the ballot. Ho did not see the test against the remark of the Hon. Member with re necessity for the Bill at all; b u t though he should not ferenee to Ireland. The Hon. Member had only re oppose his own views to the knowledge possessed by the peated the un f a ir and illiberal assertion, which had from la p te and th e p resen t G overnm ents, he could not support time to t ime found its way into some of the newspapers " compulsory clauses. He hoped, therefore, that the of too country. He could not understand upon what Government would not press the ballot. grounds a proposition which had been originated by the had The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the C ommittee last Government, and supported by the present, could be agreed that 80000 men should be raised, and it was designated as odious and disgraceful. When the Hon. expected that they would be raised by voluntary enlist- Member insinuated that Ireland had been omitted from meat; but he asked the Committee, would the means to the measure because her Majesty could not trust the raise the force in question be complete if the Govern- Irish people with arms, ho could only say that if her meat, had not the power to enforce the vote of the Corn- Majesty was under that apprehension it must have arisen iri_ 'wee by the ballot? Hon. Members said over and from some misinformation from persons having the same o ver again that there was nothing so detestable to the ' opinions as the Hon. Member. The English nation e ntr Y as the ballot; but if voluntary enlistment failed would do injustice to Ireland if they believed that every e ballot would be the only alternative. When, there - man in Ireland would not rise in arms if the country was fore,l p the power to raise these 8 0 0 0 men was conceded invaded.—(Hear, hear.) He thought they ought all to e "_° measure would bo incomplete if a contingency were endeavour to make a measure which had been declared . -"_ ° . t Provided for—namely, that the men could not be necessary for the common weal as perfect as possible. raised by voluntary enlistment. Mr. MOWATT said the Hon. Member was mistaken n air. CARDWELL said the argument of the Attorney- in suppt sng that he had spoken of her Majetty. weeeral was, that he would have to put the ballot to a The O'GORMAN MAHON—Her Majesty's Govern new Pula • in its „ it , Parliament e a c , e d from the Bill. The speech of the Honourable Mr. MOWATT said that the Hon. Member ought to should the therefore raised the practical question— have addressed his complaint to the Government, for all na t l t " the Queen's subjects, in a time of profound that be (Mr. Mowtstt) had stated was a wish that the iii-ale, be submitted to compulsory conscription? For Government should state why they had thought the e last twenty years the militia law had existed in a p e ople of Ireland could not be trusted with arms. state of suspension, the Queen having a power of ap- The ATTORNEY -GENERAL said that the Hon. Plying the ballot in case of necessity. If the clause M em ber who had just sat down had stated that the Go- It th " the ballot the principle would be established that vernment were anxious to shuttle through this Bill. If , subsidiary was necessary in a time of profound peace as th a t we re an there Was no one so determined to disap it"uouaidiary to vol u ntary:enlistment. The Government, p o i n t them as the Hon. Member, for he had done all the mere agency of the ballot, were going to compel he could to prevent the clause being carried. The Hon. the professional man and others to pay a tax of 30? , in Member had also stated that be was ashamed to be found % ti me of profound peace to provide a substitute. The night after night taking part in the discussion. The Proposition for rejecting the clause was, therefore, not remedy for that was so obvious that he was surprised honvecessary. The votes of the Committee enabled ' the that the Hon. Member had not shown his sense of but a e s rn b ris e ent to raise the militia by voluntary means; shame by adopting it.—(A laugh.) With respect to the exigency hal been proved, he could not con- proviso, he objected to it o n the g round that it made a Bent to gi ve th em t h e compulsory c l ause s demanded. most invidious distinction between di fferent classes of Al i% NEWDEGATE said it was impossible the Go- her Majesty's subjects. Ever y sub j ect was interested vernment could have a militia without the compulsory in the defence of the natio n, and y et the c lauses, proviso almost raised the inference that only Sir F. BARING did not believe the omission of the those parsons entitled to vote for Members of clause s would deprive the Government of a single man, Parliament were interested in that defence. That especially as the operation of the ballot would be Post- portion of the community entitled to the right of voting lira until January 1, 1853. Under the present mi- was surely not the least respectable part. According to law, in case of danger, 150,000 men could be raised the Hon. Member for Falmouth, none but the lowest by the ballot, at present suspended. He would not vote vagabonds would enter the militia, and yet the proposal for the amendment to get rid of the ballot, but if the of the Hon. Member for Oldham would compel many of ballot.. was postponed time would be given to consolidate the respectab le classes of the community to associate the militia law. Another point gained would be an im- themselves and serve wit h those vaga bonds. Ile objected, Portant one—namely , that the pr ese nt expensive mode therefore, to the proposal on these sufficient grounds. of raising the militia might be altered. The late Gc- But he had another objection to it. A misapprehension 'eminent thought the charges should not fall upon the existed wi th re g ard to the ri g hts of the sub j ects of this country rates, but upon the genera l taxation of the country. There was a distinction between polit ical and country. This Bill, however, charged an indefinite sum civil rights. With a view to good government, certain On the county rates. classes were entrusted with political rights, not granted The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said to others. All classes, however, were entitled to the the omission of the compulsory clauses would seriou sl y same civi l ri g hts ; therefore all were e q uall y interested in ' affect h the chances of obtaining a force by voluntary en - the defence of those ri g hts. The ob j ection of his Ri g ht li stenent. Men would enlist voluntarily whe n the y Hon. Friend the Secretar y of State that the p roviso saw the eventuality of the ballot in the distance ; wou'diiarrow the basis upon which the defence of the otherwise they would not. The effect of the ballot on co un t r y ou g ht to rest, and that it would limit the number :tho se districts whore volunteers were likely to be ob- of citizens who might be compelled to serve, was con tamed was a strong consideration, and ho could assure clusive.—(Hear.) Ho could scarcely understand the the Committee that the chances of voluntary enli s t ment r e a son p ut for ward b y the Hon. Member for Oldham in would be seriously affected if the compulsory clauses favour of his proviso on the ground of conscientious Were omitted. scruples. He was the last person to object to well- Mr. PRICE said that a man who would expect to founded scruples, but he did not see how the proviso get 301. or 401. as a substitute, would not enlist volunta- would protect persons who had such scruples from being tilt'. The retention of the compulsory clauses would, called on to serve or find a substitute. therefore, prevent voluntary enlistment. Mr. FOX explained, with reference to those persons _ Mr. WAKLEY sa id t h ere was n o force in the state- Who conscientiously objected to the use of arms, that meat of th e Ch ance ll or o f t h e E xc h equ er, because the his motion would so far protect them , for bei n g on the w att " was foregone for this year. The feeling of young electoral list t he y mi g ht withdraw their name, and thus Teta out of doors was that if they were drawn by the avoid being called on to serve. ballot they would go to gaol rather than serve. He The ATTORNEY. GENERAL did not think it hoped, therefore, the amendment would be adopted. would be desirable or reasonable to allow persons to Ca- IIaLEACH represented a constituency which the cape from serving their cou ntr y in that or any other kallot . would peculiarly affect, and he was also the em- way. There were many who had c onscientious objec- PdoYer of thousands of workmen. He could therefore tions to paying taxes, and thousands of objections might s peak absolutely of their repugnance to it; and he be taken to the performance of duties which all cla sses trusted theref ore that the clause would not bo perse- were bound to fulfil. But, if these objections were to be vered in. He believed there was a strong feeling in the taken into account , eve r y obli g ation might be frittered Country against the Militia Bill, and he believed, if more defen away; and on these grounds ho hoped the Committee co was really necessary, that the people would wound not entertain the proviso. rather have an addition to the standing army. He hoped Mr. HUME thought the proviso open to objection, Government would therefore consent to abandon the and suggested to his lion. Friend to alter it al as to pro clause. vide that every person who should be drawn by ballot Mr. S. HERBERT explained, There were man reasons why, many and should servo in the militia should be entitled to in his judgment, the possible volunteer have his name entered on the list of Parliamentary elec would not have such a rooted horror of the ballot as tors in the borough or count y in which he resides. asserted. lie feared that t h e tone of argument used by The O'GORMAN MAHON explained. some lion. Gentlemen would have the effect of making a Mr. PACKE objected to tho p roviso of the Honour the people believe that Government h a d not t h e power able Member for Oldham. The ballot would necessarily to induce citizens to come forward i n d e f ence of the be harsh under any circumstances, but that proviso country in case of need. Mr. 11. BERKELEY said in the city represented would increase its harshness tenfold. there was a petition getting up Mr. FOX said he could not accede to the suggestion was satisfied the people were strongly opposed to trine of his Hon. Friend the Msmber for Montrose, because ballot. - ° he did not think that the fact of a person having been The Committee divided, when there appeared— Engaged in the military service offered the best ground For the amendment ••• ..• Ito for an extension of the franchise. He should not press Against it ... ... •„ ... 127 to a division the proviso he had moved after the opi- Majority for the ballot ...-17 nious which had been expressed on the suaject by those On our re-admission we found Hon. Members to whom he had looked for support. Mr. MITCHELL stating he wished that ever Mr. M. GIBBON said he wished to ask the Ri g ht y gen tleman who supported this Bil l could be c a l led upon to Hon. Gentlenian the Secretary of State for the Homo serve in per: on. Department whether he meant to give the Committee Mr. W. FOX moved a proviso to the effect that no an opportunity of considering his proposed list of ex person shall be liable to compulsory military service emotions by bringing that list under their consideration. the 42d of George whose name is not on the registration list as an elector He (Mr- Gibson) believed that the exemptions contained be found suitable at the present day. for some borough, city, or county. Ho thought there id"' 111., would not in many instances were many circumstances besides population to be con sidered in such a measure as that now before the House. Mr. WALPOLE said that ho would read the list of He considered that property ought to be taken into con- exemptions. That list comprised Peers who were die sideration qu it e as much as population. - lie also con- charging public duties in the other House of Parliament; sery t d ir f, P , half-pay; commissioned officers' serving or having sidered th a t th e habits and occupations of the people p n e u rso u n . s t. servin g in the other forces of the Crown; officers ear l s in the militia; resident members of the ought to be taken into account. He claimed for those who had no representation, no rights of citizenship, hx _ universiti n e r s y • eraption from the duties which this Bill proposed to mt . , ors ergy men , rennees; seamen and seater' persons licensed to preach; ed in the dockyards and gunward ofthe Ordnance; rose op en t h em , Th at l arge class, as was said in constables and peace officers ; articled clerks and ap another l ob , y P ace, had nothing to do with the laws but to P o y n i e onfg child ms e bornn ;persona Waterman,i n and wedlock. eanl ' ' then', and • t those persons composing parsons free of the Comp had merits and virtues }e quite equal to other classes in P that class PloY more favoureddunfieositions in our social scheme. Tle poor man who had more tha a n n wall as any should certainly workingawe, M. GIBSON said he could once of the day t p o re p e n e e n v t i t classes, who had the exist- not understand why a were outlawed, as it ware, frofmerwho Peer should not purchase a substitute thheyei civil rdlsaeheoivarl . of the wealther classes rights other member of the community, and get° as Bill. He warned the classes, ought not to be touched by this take the sense of tlae Comm Committee against that exemptio n , government to be ided hy what It was also proposed that every poor man who had taken place in Ireland one child should lea exempted. But had whenthe militia he (Mr. • rolled. On two occasions was en- more , lowed close upon th© heel, outrages and outbreaks fol- G,b,,ont)lanwished to know who was to be considered a of the e f xpiration of those poor . man? enrolments. Ho did not menu • assert shpt there was any indisposition ramom moment GIBBON en the pa-t of MM. continued—lt appeared that water the unrepresented classes, in case of threatened to Sir C. BURRELL—A day labourer. also to be exempted. But watermen had been to come forward and lend their aid to defend their invasion' Inca were a the engineers and other persons employed Such a feeling, h© was satisfied, did not - shores. superseded by and it 3 to that latter class rather than exist, for very in steamers; recently when danger was surmised the labouring such favour ought to be granted. any were the first to come forward in defence of f peo h ple to watermen that further exemption on b t ehalf of country. If real danger occurred the ballot would neciirt There was to b e of athe universities. But he could not be needed; the peopl, as one man, would rise resident members ns who resided in the universities to hurl back any , insult end aggression which might be contem- understand f why persons as sometimes happened, should plated. The people would, however, naturally f ee l, if net their own amusement, tubstitutts. lie should also the Legislature called upon them to serve, that the Le- ebl t be obliged to purchase t h that exemption should gisleture ought first to recognise their just claims, He ho Ct r n -v ifi, c u th d et he could not see wl vers , es ~ of Oxford and would only allude to ono circumstance more; that in Cambride to members of the n! t to to the Raght Hon. this country there was a large and a growing body Cambridge. He would suggest Gentleman the Secre -of State for the Home Depert tary , which was conscientiously opposed to military service mint the propriety the whole of that altogether. Christianity and history from their earliest subject, embodyingand c of reconsidering respect to it in a ;ges presented traces of inclividuala who had a rooted separate clause. his views with objection on principle to war, and everything that had Mr. WALPOLE said n . Member who p l roposal of the Govermn reference to war. Th ose p a rties ought not to have might object to the that any Ho n• on the their wishes and prin c ipl es en tirely disregarded, nor be eubject of etwmpti ol punished, as they would be, account of their con- -bringing forward on would have ample opportunity of any amendment ho might think scientious scruples. There would always be persons !, proper. who upheld what were called peace doctrines; those 1 , Mr. BRIGHT said, he did persons formed at present not a very large eIaSS GO-, should not be exempted, • not see why medical men as he believed there WttS no class better entitled to the indulgent consideration of the I Legislature. Mr. WALPOLE said, that the Government would not be unailling to give their best consideration to the a ehject of those exemptions. But ho repeated, that any Hon. Member might bring forward a proposal embody ine his views on the q uestion. ins THOMPSON sail, he thought there were reasons why the Government ought to grant an exemp tion to the members of the Society of Friends. The proviso moved by Mr. FOX was then nettatived without a division. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved a proviso to the effect that no married man should be drawn by ballot, and no unmarried man, except he was between the ages of 20 and 25. There were in England Wales, according to the lest census, 8,753,000 miles, of whom 800,030 were between the egos of 20 and 25; and of these npwards of 600,000 were unma rried. Now, he believed that that latter close was a sufficiently large one for the purposes of that Act, and that they were the fittest persons to be brought within its operation. Supposing a married man was drawn by ballot, who was to defray the cost of maintaining his wife and family? He hoped the proviso would receive the consideration of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department. Mr. HENLEY thought his Hon. Friend should have come prepared with some statement to aid them in as certaining the number of unmarried males between the ages of 20 and 25 years. Some data of that kind should be supplied; otherwise the adoption of the proviso might narrow their mergia very inconveniently. The reason why they exempted married men having more than one child was, that in the event of a man with a large family being drawn the burden would fall heavily on the parish. Mr. WAKLEY was opposed to all exemptions, as well in the case of a peer as of the poor man. If they were to have a ballot at all, let it fall equally. Why should unmarried men be visited by a penalty because they were unmarried? Many of them did not marry from provident motives, and if these exemptions were allowed, they were certain to be followed by a vast number of improvident' marriages.—(Laughter.) In deed, if there was an exemption at all, he would put in a claim for the medical practitioners.—(Hear,and a laugh.) Sir G. STRICKL AND was in favour of exempting married persons; &though he should say, strictly speak ing, the peer as well as the peasant should be liable. If persons of the present day had seen the heartrending scenes that he witnessed, arising out of the ballot con scriptions, the alarm would be far greater than at present. Mr. PETO said that, if necessary, he would prefer an augmentation of the standing army to the ballot con seripqon. The industrial classes would raiso an outcry little expected when the Bill should become law. Mr. SANDARS supported the proviso. Mr. MO WATT thought that as only 50,000 men would be required in the next year, there would be no necessity to have recourse to the ballot. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he found that, of the 8,750,000 of males, there would be about 1,600,000 found between the ages of 20 and 25 years who were not married; and that would leave a sufficiently amp'e margin without calling on the married men. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged to recal the consideration:of the House tolthe point betore it. He thought, with great respect, that the principle which had been laid down by his Hon. Friend (Sir H. Willoughby) was one of a very vicious character. In our system of taxation nothing had been more produc tive of annoyance and trouble than these exemptions, and therefore it would be wish and judicious ,not to ex tend their operation.—(Hear, hear.) If the exemptions which at present existed by law were not adapted to the times in which they lived, he was sure that the Committee would be able to deal with them. In the first instance, they ought to consider that, by thus adding to the list of exemptions, they much diminished the area of service. They were acting, in his opinion, most un justly in pressing these exemptions. Upon these grounds, but principally and-chiefly because he was entirely op posed to the principle of exemption, he felt it his duty to oppose the amendment. Mr. T. small was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman say he was opposed to these exemptions. The exemption of married men, he thought, was the worst that could be devised. The Hon. Member for Ft ve A e re, by his amendment, would induce unmarried men to make improvident marriages. The limitation of the Act to the ago of 35 years would of itself exempt a great number of married men. M r . MO WATT thought that the exemption proposed was one that would afford real practical relief to society ventrally. mmittee then divided, when there appeared— For the amendment ... 53 Against it ... _159 Mejority against the amendment —lO6 Mr. M. GIi3SON then proposed to add a proviso to .he clause, exempting all schoolmasters from being liable to serve in the militia, The CHAIRMAN put the question. Mr. WALPOLE said that such a proviso would be better moved at the end of the 18th clause than in the present one. If the Right Hon. Gentleman postponed his proposition until then he would be prepared to state his opinions upon the proposition. Mr. M. GIBSON said, if the Right Hon. Gentleman would agree to submit the list of exemptions he pro posed, so that they could have an opportunity of giving their opinion upon them, and consider whether additions might not be made to them, he would agree to his sug gestion. But otherwise he was disposed to think this the fitting time for bringing forward his proposition. Lord SEYMOUR said that every exemption was a compromise; and, as they had heard much lately from the head of the Government on the subject of compro miles, he wished to ask whether the Right Hon. Gentle man had a distinct clause of exemptions to propose? Mr. WALPOLE said that all these exemptions were contained in the Act of the 42d Geo. 111., and were in corporated in the present Bill. Lord SEYMOUR asked whether they were to have any compromise here? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that they proposed exactly the same exemptions as were con • tained in the Act of Geo. 111. To increasing these ex emptions he was certainly opposed. When, however, a fair opportunity arose, for discussing those points, the Government wore not indisposed to consider these ex emptions of the Act which were revived in the present Bill. He fully agreed in the . principle of compromises, for, without them, ho believed that nothing could be carried in that House. After a few.words from Mr. BRIGHT, The Cumusittee again divided, when there appeared— For the proviso ••• 86 Against it .. "• ... 164 Mejority against it ... —7B On our return to the gallery we found Mr. GIBSON moving, as a proviso to the clause, " That no peer of this realm shall to exempt from serv ing its the militia raised under this Act, anything in not- the first-recited Act, or any other Act to the contrary withstanding."—(Loud cheers fr om the Opposition.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that all the exemptions had been adopted atter much consi deration. Ile could not adopt provisos brought forward in this crude manner, and should therefore oppose the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. BRIGHT supported the proviso, and insisted that if the Members of the House of Commons ere obliged to servo, there was no reason why peers should not be compelled to serve also.—(Cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to the question being b roug ht forward without fair notice. The privilege of exemption from serving in the militia was incidental to the peerage in other circum stances than those which were connected with Parlia ment. Take, for instance, the exemption of a peer from serving on juries, though Members of the House of Commons wcro not exempt—(Yes, and No)—at all events when Parliament was not sitting. He contended that this was a question upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to have given fair notice. But instead of that he had given no notice at all. He and his fiends hod loaded the paper with amendments upon the various elauiee of the Bill; but not one was there upon this subject, which had nothing whatever to do with the clause at present before the Committee. Mr. GIBSON would be sorry to take any one by sur prise, bat he had made several appeals to the Home Se cretary to submit to the House the list of exemptions he had to propose—(Hear, hear) —in order that the sense of the House might be taken upon each separate exemp tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman told him, however, that ho would not do so, and that it was for him (Mr. Gibson) to move provisos of exemption. In taking this coarse, therefore, he was only acting upon the suggestion of the Right lion. Gentleman. Lord PALMERSTON said, the only way in which this exemption formed part of the Bill was by reference to the Act 421 Geo. 111. Now the ballot would not take place, at the earliest, until the beginning of next year, and they had been told that in the next session of Parliament a Consolidation Bill was to be introduced. He thought, therefore, it would be better to reserve the consideration of these exemptions until then. Mr. V. S the objection of. the Government to this proviso rested simply on the ground that notice hed not boon given, and they wished to take time for its consideration, then he would advise his Right Honourable Friend not to 'press his motion further at that moment. Mr. EWART urged that that was the right time to press the amendment, unless the Government gave an assurance that there was a chance of their altering the 42d of George 111., which contained the list of ex emptions. Mr. WAKLEY, understanding from the expression which had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exche quer, that the exemptions should be considered on a tutura oceesion—(Cries of "No, no," and loud laughter) —urged his Right Hon. Friend to postpone his proviso. Colonel SIB rnoßp hoped the Chancellor of the mExchequerpower, andow h o n u lr l d es aindlolet.ucr:onsf We mb with t b t t h oo e wg, s i u vee g x g we e la s a t )i i , o t i o Roe. and Gallant Member, the high—the upper hand The Committee then divided, when there appeared— For Mr. Gibson 13 proviso 96 Ag e : i Majority against the e proviso --66 Mr. WliL st E i Y t . moved a provi so , t o t h e effect that medical men sh ou ld be exempted from the operation of the Bill. Mr. 7ALPOLE said that tho Government were exemptions b containedinlethu former Act; and he did not think it desirable t they wrely proposing the and i :en were e could see no should Mr. t rr en b d bv, t e h r o v s e e d e t x bj e ua m rt .ni p e t se io d in m exempted d lie fr a o d m y exempted from serving on i reason why they should not be equally serving in the militia. Colonel SIBTHORP thought that medical rum should not be treated a s a bod y distinct from the rest of the community. m e . WYLD said he thought that medical mon had tho strongest ehtires to exemption iu that matter. LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, Mr. OSWALD also supported the proviso. The Committee then divided, when there appaared— For Mr. Wakley's proviso 77 Agairist it ... 167 Majority against the proviso 90 Mr. PETO moved the addition ( - )f a proviso at the end of the clause, that nicruber2 of the Society of Ft iends ciiled Quakors should not be liable to serve in the militia. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that under the 421 of George 111., c. 90, the deputy lieu tenants were empowered to provide substitutes for Quakers. The Government had considered the subiput long before it had been submitted by the Hon. Gentle man opposite, end they did not see any reason why Quakers should ba exempted from the necessity of sup plying substitutes. But at the same time they consi dered that that part of the clause of the Act of George 111 , by which defaulters under it were committed to prison, was not in accordance with the spirit of the pre sent ago, an.l they thottrefore meant to do away with it, and to free Quakers by means of a proviso inserted in the Bill from the liability of imprisonment. He trusted , therefore, the Hon. Gentleman wou ld not press his amendment. Mr. BRIGHT had prepared a proviso on the subject, which would have had the effect of exempting Quakers from the obnoxious portions of that clause. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that their object was that Quakers should not be placed in a worse position than others. The proviso' was not pressed. Mr. M. GIBSON moved the following proviso to this clause:—" Provided always, that notwithstanding the first recited Act, or any other Act, no private man cho sen by ballot to serve in the militia shall be compelled to take any oath that he will faithfully serve in the militia for the term of five years, or until he be sooner discharged." He considered it little better than blas phemy to compel a man to take an oath which he might not intend to observe if he could possibly escape from it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped the Committee would not be led away into the discus sion of considerations which applied to all oaths, and was not by any means peculiar to the militia oath. Mr. BRIGHT denied that there was any resemblance between the case of a witness in a court ofjustice and a militiaman. This was an infamous measure, violating ) the first principles of morality.— (Oh, oh. Sir P. WOOD hoped great advan ces had been made on the subject of oaths since 1802.—(Il e ar, hear.) Since then four thousand Custom-house oath s had been abo lished, and compulsory oaths altogether had been done away with. If the militiaman could say he was a Quaker, or Separatist, or had boon (although now an lufidel), he need not take the oath; but if he were an Independent, ho must take the oath.—(Hear, hear.) A person had been imprisoned four years on account of an objection to take the oath. There were numbers con stantly increasing who objected to oaths. The decla rations required were really absurd. The Ki ng 's trum peter and the King's chimney-sweeper had been called upon to declare that they would not use their offices against the Church of England.—(A laugh.) The C immittee then divided— For the clause as it stood Against it ... Majority ..• 77 Mr. WAK LEY said it was admitted the compulsory clauses could not be operative this year. He therefore moved that the Chairman should report progress. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the Hon. Gentleman hardly dealt fairly with the House. The clause had been discussed before, and the Com mittee had decided on it, The principle also had been discussed several times. Reiterated appeals were con stantly made from Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House to expedite the business of the country, and under these circumstances he could not help saying that a motion like this almost partook of the character of vexatious.—(Hear.) If the Hon. Member persisted in so unseasonable a motion, therefore, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should divide the Committee. Mr. BRIGHT said the House had not been dis cussing the clause, as the Right Hon. Gentleman stated, but the exempcious. The division was hurried on in the early part of the evening, and there was only a majority of 17. As it was necessary, therefore, to take another division on the ballot, it would be better to take it on that clause. It was not intended to adopt factious pro ceedings—(Olh !)—but to take a discussion when the House was fresh. The Committee then divided— • ... 156 . For the motion ••• ... 40 Against it ... ••• ••• ... 179 Majority 139 The announcement was received with cheers. Mr. WILLIAMS begged to appeal once more to the Government not to procted further. He moved that the Chairmqn do now leave the chair. The CIiANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, after the unmistakeable manner in which the sense of the Committee had been expressed, he confessed he was as tonished at the course pursued by the Hoe. Gentleman. If he thought he could defeat the Bill . by such a course he was mistaken. H e m ight inconvenience the Govern ment—he might prevent important business being pro secuted, and he might protract the duration of the ses sion, but the Bill would become law.—(Cheers.) He was always anxi ous t o d e f e r to the wishes of a majority, or any consider a bl e party , but he felt he had in this case only one duty, a n d th at was to persevere.—(Cheers.) Mr. GRENVILLE BERKELEY said he had throughout opposed th e Bill, but he would not be a party to any factious oppositi on like the present. The gallery was again cleared, but no division took place. The clause t ((16), o si ain a g s a am o en n T ded h , ur w s a d s ay ag n r e e x e t d . to, and Th© CHAIRMAN then report e d p r ogress, and ob tained leave The Ecclesiastical Courts C r i m i na l J ur i s diction Bill went through Committee pro forma. Tho Apprehension of Deserters Bill was read a third time. The Further Extension County Courts Bill went through Committee, previous to which some conversa tion occurred between Mr. Walpole and Mr. Fitzroy re lative to a clause which had been inserted and consented to inadvertently by Mr. Walpole, the effect of w hich was said to be to raise the salaries of the county court judges from 1,000/. to 1,200/, per annum, Mr. Walpole_ intimated his intentio n to oppose the further prog ress of this clause until assurance had been obtained of the con sent of the Crown. THE PATENT LAW AMENDMENT BILL. To a question, Mi. HENLEY objected to send the whole subject to a Committee, because that would bo tantamount to post poning legislation for the year. The Bill was then read a second Cm°. The Public Works Bill was read a second time. The house adjourned at Half-past One. UnfortunTatel i E Unfortunately MIL ITIA ai-t s 3 with a vast amount of Government last night own popularity and peace, it ever be put in force 110, the obnoxious than a defeat; for a defeat nall carried, by a division of 127 to wee o i n d ly a b t militia. A triumph of thin of conscription for the the possibility of aetual la doubtful character, combined ill-feeling out of doors, and with resistance to the ballot, should conscription really and the general abandonment of Lord cant. the bone of contention. be e r a e s g t Government undoubtedly tion thus far in the discussionnti amonAnybody who considers what to, the fate of the conscrip tion asre removed why so crazy regular army and navy, !amen( of the principle in the of the proposed militia, and ill-found be at a loss to understand than common forms of most heavily on the The conscription is a lottery is chose to run on that rock. a craft as the present °TY of life, and is so far worse and most occupied industrious, most responsible, principle in the mem bers progro,, of society. The, fate of the nansts'avery, inasmuch as it falls before the Rouse is significant, of the measure or measures the general rule The ballot, which was Bill, was subsequently John Russell's first Mi litia odified by that Minister. In the Militia Bill proposed was degraded from i ts p o • by his successors, the ballot ionallank, as the last resitiou as the rule, to an excep second reading of the Billonree. In order to secure the wes postponed till the b a ll et , oven as a last re source,the now Parliament shall next' year, that is, till after provision of the' Bill. Thebeavo had time to revise this the secondary place, this onscription thus reduced to mood, was still futurein tense and this condi tionalground as a principle, though the Bill, retaining its to come into practice. What ough most unlikely ever natural to icquire, was there in peculiar sacredness, it is citizens, in a time of profound na the right of compelling employments and dutiee, and dump, to forsake their uncongenial employment of a e 713 t what might be, the honourable service be injured by diort Why should an sloe, and this measure be hate y the stigma of compul element of unpopularity? secir thatre(l with an additional not to come into force till Januaga the provision was a useless bravado to insist on leaving 1 , 1853, it looks like in the Bill. It is difficult indeed to the word " ballot" to shall ever again see an Engliehm, imagine that we home against his will to a military or dragged from his lire, but the mere existence of this for pseudo-military sure robs the service of that volunta r y in the ma' constituted its chief merit, and on '!'r.Y character which match it . haVe been suffered t o rest. might safely When George Stephenson, or Some en gineering Titans, was asked whether it other of our tunnel under the Straits of Dover, he replied possible to only a question of money. N ow, if o P , ted that it was anion with France is only a question oar underground same may be said of the means of defence money, the dangerous neighbours. It is only to raise, against our and plenty will offer, especially when i t i the bounty, one that the service will begin an d end 3 a hundred to drills, a few parades, and one annual inspection, a dozen weather permitting. If Si., or a penny a da spection, the period of engagement , will not do, 10/. will;y durine , the only fair that they who do not choose to go soldiering and is themselves should p a y those who will, andsoldiering market price of the work. This is the that at the which our army a nd our navy are recriginciPle on is found to answ er very fairly, the objection col; and it rather on the side of the public, which grumbles being the cast, than the soldier or the sailor, wi%rumbles at is ready to serve for less than the pay of any • industrious me chanic. Mr. Walpale must surely have forgotten'us the moment the existence of any other force th for described in his brief, when ho argued last night an that inasmuch es 80;000 men were to be raised, it v. sary to have the power of the ballot in order i t e o s feces the certainty of that number of men. More than I ,finenre men are found ready to servo her Majesty, not 00,000 merelyby a few days' drill once a y ear, in fine weather and at holiday seasons, but every day of the year, for many consecutive years, wi nter and summer, in Canadian ly frosts and wider trop ical suns, in stormy seas and dead climes, constantly expo sed to all the miseries end da gers that embitter the li fe of the civilian onl y by their - occasional o r possible oceurrence;—they are f oun d to do this for what? For pay that any labouring gardener in the neighbourhood of this metropolis would throw in M A Y 18 9 1852. the face of the man that offered it, If this vat amount and dire reality of work is done for pay, why should not pay be even more efficacious for the mere child's play, the gap. 79 of seldiering, contemplated fey the Bill now in tho Commons? If counties and ply will an swer the purpfne, surely it is a needless exhibition of the ultima ratio to parade before a peaceful and to al people the terrible apparatus of the conscription. The English man will often do spontaneously what he could never be forced to do, and it is not at all unlikely that many will refuse to volunteer, merely from the feeling that they might perhaps be made to serve against their wili, and that they may very likely have to stand in the same rank with involuntary conscripts, or worse still, with a low class of substitutes. After all, it is a question whether the conscription is any longer possible, and whether the volunteer principle is not the utmost limit of enlistment in these days. How ere we to keep hold of the militia conscript in the long in tervals of service? Mr. Cobden possibly makes out our labourers and artisans to be worse than they are, when he says that they will volunteer for the sake of the bounty, and then invest the money in a passage to the States; but we will not answer for the loyal of men who may conceive themselves the victims of an unjust mea sure. At all events, if a man is drawn for the militia and hates the service, but cannot or will not pay for a substitute, there is nothing whatever to pre vent him from transferring himself, his family, his property, and his allegiance to another Power. No writ ne exeat regno will hover over the heads of the reluctant militiamen during the many months of freedom that must necessarily intervene between the closing inspection in autumn and the first drill in sum mer. In this country we have no such system of sur veillance as there is in France. Here the ballot will be inefficacious unless the conscript is kept under guard the whole year. There is nothing to prevent him returning home the day that he is drawn, selling his furniture by auction, taking solemn leave of his friends, wad departing amid the condolence or the congratulations of his neigh bours, for any part of the wide earth that he may think more eligible than his own country under such circumstances. England is now the easiest place in the whole world for a man to get out of, as is evident from the fact of many thousand Germans and other foreigners coming to England as the most di rect, smoooth, and cheap channel to America or any other transmarin© country. Any man, indeed, with 10/, in his pocket may make up his mind after breakfast to try the valley of the Mississippi, and by walking to the London Docks may engage a berth, purcha::e a cem plete equipment from some of the neighbouring out fitters, find himself at the Nora by teatime, and by 12 P.m., if the wind favours, sailing merrily down the Channel. What is to hold a people who are fast beco ming birds of passage, always on the wing, ever flitting and fleeting? No legislation is so injurious as that which aims at a power which the State does not actually possess, and can never acquire; but that is the fault which, as it seems to us, has been deliberately and ob stinately committed in this instance.—Times, NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. POBTSIIOUTFI, MONDAY.—The QUM), 116, Captain Wise, will be ready to come out of dock on Friday, when it is reported she proceeds Immediately to Plymouth, to be paid down. The Philomet 8, Commander Forbes, awaits orders at Spithead. WOOLAICII, MAY 17.—The Herald, 23, Captain Henry M. Denham, is still at Grcenhithe, with her tender, the Torch steam-vessel, Lieutenant-Commander Chimmo. The interest taken in the South Sea explor ing expedition has followed it to Greenhithe, and among the numerous visitors who have gone on board the ves sels since they left Woolwich were Mr. Augustm Staf ford, M.P., Secretary to th e Admiralty, Mr. Adderley, M.P., Mr. Robert Stephenson, M.P., and Mr. Ricardo, M.P. The cards of admission to the booths and standing room under and immediately adjoining the slip from which the Agamemnon, 90, is to be launched on Saturday next, the 22d inst., about three o'clock P.M., have been printed, and the west side of the slip has been reserved for the Board of Admiralty, Commoloro Henry Eden, and their friends. The booths and standing room on the east side have been placed at the disposal of the heads of the various do partments of the dockyard, and it is calculated they will distribute 800 cards, each to admit one person. The whole of the arrangements for the launch of the Aga memnon appear to be of a better description than any ever witnessed at this dockyard. The woodwork of the booths is not carried higher than 5 feet, and all the seats ere under that height, so that thousands of the public who will have standing-room on the parade-ground on the west side and on tho east side, and on the gently sloping pavement in front of her bows, may have an excellent sight. The admission of parties having cards to the booths and standing room under the slip will be at the rear of the seats, which which will be a very great improvement over the plan hitherto adopted of passing to the seats betwixt the spectators and tho vessel. The Dockyard Battalions will commence their drills this evening, the following having been issued for their guidance:— " BRIGADE ORDERS. " Adjutant's-office, May 12. " The drills for the season will commence on Monday evening next, at half-past six o'clock, with the Artillery and Ist company of the Boat Battalior " The Infantry and 2d company Boat Battalion on Tuesday evening at the same hour. " The Artillery to have their waist-belts without bay onets. "The Boat Brigade waist-belts and swords. " The Infantry with carabines. " Dress—blue cloth with forage caps. " By order of the Colonel-Commandant,"' DETONPORT, SUNDAY.—Rochester, lighter, Savage master, sailed on Saturday, with stores for Plymouth. Sprightly tender arrived to-day with supernumeraries from Portsmouth and the Marine Artillery for the Buzzard. Sanspareil steamer will be taken out for tho trial of her engines on Tuesday or Wednesday nest, manned from the Impregnable and St. George, with some extra riggers from the dockyard. The Basilisk came into harbour on Sunday evening. FIRE IN PORTSMOUTH DOCKYARD. P OR TSMOUTH, MONDAY.—About eight o'clock this morning a fire broke out in one of the deparseeents of this dockyard, which, but for its timely discovery and the immense exertions promptly made to extinguish it, might have resulted in the destruction of an incalcu lable amount of national property, and crippled for a long time the efficiency of Portsmouth as a naval deptt. From information we have gathered on the spot on per sonal inspection, it appears that while the process of boiling the tar for tarring ropeyurns was going on in the tarring-house (which is one section of a large building forming the white-yarn and tarred-yard store in the centre of the dockyard), the bottom of one of the two copper tar boilers gave way, and the contents ran into the fire, giving out an immense volume of flame. Four ropemakers, a bey, and one stoker were hi t h o tarring house at le time; these instantly rushed out and gave an alarm; the fire bell was rung, the police were called, the engines manned and run up to the scene of the disaster; and such is the system and order under which these matters are managed in this dockyard, that within three minutes after the alarm was given ono of the ropemakers' four engines (which were the first at the fire) was got into play. About 40 en gines, altogether, were soon at work, and there being a good supply of water and thousands of hands, within the hour (from eight to nine) the flames were extin guished and the damage ascertained. Nothing could exceed the praiseworthy exertions of all the parties en gaged in this work; it was suprising, as well as in the highest degree admirable—every officer and man was at hie post, and plied the means at his commend with a vigour perfectly indescribable. The result was the saving of a most important section, if not the greater por tion, of the dockyard. The building containing the offices before enumerated is about 40 feet high, as many in width, the partitions being of brick, with iron-bars to the windows. In this building at the time of the fire were about 1,500 tons of tarred yarn, 14 er 15 cwt. of yarn in the tarring house (the seat of the fire), which was destroyed, and in an adjoining store of the same edifice were several tar barrels, and three full ones, besides the stock in use at the time of the accident. Had this im mense inflammable mass ignited, there is no doubt but that the Dockyard would have been ono wide-spread scene of devestating fleme, on one side of the tarring house being a long range of roperies, extending nearly the entire depth of the yard, with low wooden sheds within a deem feet of the tarring-house, timber in im mense loads strewn about and stacked around, and on the other a long range of offices, police store, armoury, &c. How such a building as one in which tar seems to be constantly boiling could have mintwd in such a central position seems perfectlylligible. The boilers in which the tar is heated aro of copper, holding about five buckets each, and it was the newest of these vesse ls which burst. Tho p art of the building in which they were is gut ted, and the roof burnt through. The preservation of the other sections of the building s_cie o m m s . truly providential. Admiral Sir Thomas Brigg Coma truly was among the first on the sj s )o ' t, and most prompt and energetic in giving his commands. Rear-Admiral Superintendent Prescott, who was p tion, has confined to his bedroom by ordered a oourt of inquiry to inveinstdiigsjatesi the cause of the disaster. The Court will report t rh , the Admiral Surrintendoet the result of their exhaamienastiiionthwe per we believe will fully exonerate from 1 sous employed in the tarring-house. A number of the seam en of the ships in d ock underjefiaieneht)he were yard (es- most pecially those of her Majesty's gapers promptly on the spot, and they, their respective officers, rendered eminently important service by their agility in sealing the roofs of . the burning and adjoining pediments to the free flood buildings, breaking of water, and renderianwgdas.' essistanee. Th in, R force, too, under their director, r n , Lieutenant Hull, R.N , rformed essential service u i t s h h e ed oc : c_asion. The fol lowing " orders" have been bl " Victory, in Portsmouth Harbour, May 17, 1852. General )demo —The best thanks of myself and fi Rear-Adm iral Superintendent Prescott, 8., are here with tendered to the officers and men ol her Majesty's k eeps and vessels at this port who were present assisnne ff fire iu th. d k Yarel th; at the extinguishment of the orning for their energetic e orts, Inch were happi crowned with success. "THOMAS BRIGGS, "Admiral and Commander•in-Chief." " To the respective Captains and Commanderr, " Portsmouth Dockyard, D,D iy 1 7 . Memo.—Tbe Admiral Superintendent h as rece i ve d w ith the greate st satisfaction reports of th e energe ti c an d excellent c on d uct of ali classes—officers, subordinate of f wrs , police, artificers, and labourers belonging to the dockyard on t h e oecarion of the fire this morning. The i r exertions were happily crowned with prompt ow es, and the are, which first threatened miens con- sequences, was extinguished without doing material injury. " The Admiral Superintendent will not fail to make known to the Llrds Commisiioners of the Admiralty bis sense of the prai: , .ewerthy ba.s.viour of those under his ccmlnancl, " 11. PRESCOTT, Admiral Superintancicat." We are happy to say no accident of moment occurred —t! is fire. A man nam'd Tyler fell whil3t at work aloft upon the building, but we believe is cot seriously injured. Such a building as the one gutted, if permitted in future in so thickly surrounded a spot, should be of iron or °Chemise firfproef. THE BOOKSELLIERS' ASSOCIATION. Yesterday, according to appointment, the discussion of the rules of the Bookielien' Association was resumed, at Strathe.len flout; before Lord Campbell, Mr. Grotp, and the Dean of St. Paul's. On this occasion the undersellers attended, or were represented by Mr. Griffin, Mr. Perrin, Mr. Chapman, Mr. Bickers, and Mr. Bush. Tho arbitrators having taken their seats at one o'clock precisely, Lord Campbell called on the complainants to begin. Mr. Bickers commenced and went over, for about twenty minutes, the usual common-places about free trade, exploded systems, monopolies, and the like. He was followed by Mr. Chapman and Mr. Bush, both of whom gave in stances of the " coercion " practiced by the publishers to put down underselling. was Mr. a nG illegalfi n e n c d o e m a v b o i n u a r e t i d o n t . o b s u h t o w w a t s h s a t t o t p h p e e d a s s b o y c i a L t o i o r n d Campbell. Mr. Perrin, from Manchester, stated that several (six or eight) of the Manchester booksellers had only joined the association from compulsior. Mr. Lonarcier, on the part of the booksellers, showed that the association had been formed at a meeting,pub licly announced and advertised, at w hi c h all the trade was invited to be present. At that public meeting the rules of the association were unanimously adopted, and the committee nominated. Mr. Longman then pro ceeded to animadvert on the recent speech of Mr. Glad stone in the House of Commons. .Admitting, as he was bound to do, Mr. Gladstone's talents and general infor mation, he was surprised and grieved at the numerous inaccuracies which deformed that speech. Scarcely a single fact was correctly stated. It was represented that by " monopoly and combination" prices had been so unnaturally raised thet " the sale of books had been reduced to its minimum." Now, in point of fact, the whole current had been running, for past years, in a totally opposite direction. Forty, or even thirty, years ago, every important book was first issued in quarto, at the prios of two or three guineas. Now, quartos were never seen. The most celebrated works were now content to appear in octavo, and their own house (Longreans') and Ur. Murray, provided for the public, " Read ing for the Rail," and " Home and Colonial Libraries," at a cheap rate. The whole tendency had long been to greater and greater cheapness. The reason why new works did not instantly circulnto in large numbers was, that people had not time to read, or shelves to hold, the multiplicity of new works that were perpetually pouring forth. As to the colonies, to which Mr. Gladstone had referred, it had long been a particular object with the leading publishers to provide supplies for the colonies at the cheapest possible rate. Mr. Longman then adverted to the taunt, that there was no one in the bookselling trade who had now the spirit to bring out a "Johnson's Dictionary." Ile observed that he end Mr. Murray had long boon in search of an author who could produce a new edition of Dr. Johnson's great work, but no such person could be found. - Mr. MURRAY followed Mr. Longman, and observed that however successful one undersellor at the present or any other time might be, it had been found, as the result of a long experience, that underselling, generally, only ended in insolvency and ruin to all parties concerned. Mr. J. 11. PARKER and Mr. BIELBY followed on the COMO side. Mr. SF.ELEY observed that one of the opponents had spoken in scorn of the Booksellers' Association, and had asked, if it had succeeded, why were we all here? Ile replied that the present meeting was a proof that the association had succeeded. Other attempts in former years had failed, and little had been heard of them. But in the course of the last two years the present asso ciation had proved its efficiency. It had so hampered the undersellers that Mr. Bickers was fain to write to Mr. Gladstone and to Mr. Macaulay, and to Lord Camp bell, complaining of " persecution," and talking of being " starved." This was the proof of the efficiency of the association. It was this that brought them all there to day. And lot the association go on quietly in its course for another year or two, and even Mr. Bickers himself would be fain to join it. Next, it was represented that the undersellers were the advocates of free trade—of " commercial freedom." He denied it. The cause of free trade was represented by the booksellers, not by the undersellers. They, the booksellers, were really contending for commercial freedom. Lot this be closely locked at. Ho observed that a writer on the other side said, " That which is purchased is the property of the purchaser, who has surely as much right to sell it at a small profit as to give it away." Who denied this? Who questioned it? Not the Booksellers' Association. Tho truth was, that those who wanted to infringe on other people's liberty were the underaellers, not the booksellers. For thus stood the case:--A publisher brought out a new book, selling at 21s. He sold it to all the trade, without re serve. Among others (he was now supposing the case as ;,it stood three years back) he sold some to Mr. Bickers. But Mr. Bickers chose to ticket them up at 17s. The ,consequence of this was that Mr. Bickers soon sold all his copies, but none of the other booksellers around him could sell any. But did any one contest Mr. B.'s right to sell them at 175., or at toe if he pleased, or to give them away? Did any one want to prosecute him, or to visit him with fine or imprisonment? Nobody had dreamed of such a thing. But presently, Mr. B. having disposed of the first supply, comes back to the publisher for some more. The publisher saya, "You are spoiling the sale of this book; all the trade tell me that they cannot sell it; you are damaging me, the character of the book, and the trade at large; I shall not sell you any more." Now is not the publisher at liberty to take this course? May he not have his share of " commercial freedom?" Aro not his books his own to do as ho pleases with? Mr. Bickers says that they are not; for when the publisher says, "I will not sell to you," Mr. B. answers, " But I will make you. I will go and com plain to Lord Campbell, to Mr. Macaulay, and to Mr. Gladstone, and I'll soon force you to sell to me." And this is done in the name of " free trade!" Mr. S. next observed on the delusion sometimes attempted to be practised by representing this as a contest for high prices and for dear books. The two questions had no relation to each other. Books were being rapidly cheapened, by the fair competition of . publisher with publisher; and this cheapening no one wished to stop. But all the cheapening proposed in the present case was that of selling a book at 263. in lieu of 29a—a cheapen ing which could have no sensible influence on the sale of books, though it might ruin many retailers. For the re maining few minutes, however, Mr. S. said he would con fine himself to the tract which he held in his hand, and which contained the letters of nearly 100 authors, ad dressed to Mr. Parker on this question. 'This publication was an absolute triumph to the Booksellers' Association. He was quite willing to rest the whole case upon these letters. It might be said, " What! do you claim that es a triumph, when there are 80 authors out of 90 who declare that you aro wrong ?" Yes, he still claimed it as a triumph of the most decided character. For, let it be closely looked at, and the replies would range them selves under three heads. First, those authors who answer, generally, without reasons. The question put had been—Shall I sell your books to undersellers? Many of those gentlemen were the authors of books of slow sale, and they answered at once, "Oh, yg o ; tell answermy books to anybody who will buy or motive was a very natural one; but having no reasonthis but a selfish one, it could have no weight in . thew." Th The second class consisted of eight gentlemen,. . contro versy. There were more than fifty lettersofthtsch:.rhaoctrser: plied, in the mein, that the. associadoa wee in the right. These letters were argumentative and convincing. Dr. Bernays, Mr. Bush . Coleridge, were Ai C o r. l w e s r r c i i d o t g t t e t e , n , anMhdyamMr.elv!vialllaeo, Walcott. L si a n t g h le am pa , ss m agre . from Mr. Coleridge's letter may suffice as a specimen. He says—" I think the avowal of a retailer that he intends to sell at a low rate of profit is a good and sufficient reason for any publisher refusing to deal with him on trade terms." But there was a third class, wh decided against the association, and assigaed reasons.o And these reasons showed the real tendency n ttsshhaaron ar e need e d . „ undersellers' movement. For instance, Mr. Bray writes,te ' i otherr3p will ro h fi half n f f r ohlnodno2r course doublet tend e i n ° d e It competition reduce the retail T er: i o h o sellers in small per cent., half must retire, and the t h h y a t a t l h l the t w o o work." h lt a ." a n D n i r h . i I Donaldson h s e a y at s h) --- aast , s ‘ boef el f er.mKpilnogyseldeyiirssasYhs4work svousldesb‘e‘ r . Wardsome 6 800 s that ' ' the Linden book e d;A yi n n d g M fo r proposes is Andthe or e 900 estabishments b to e w r n o s irn " db i ni,uhai t oy o :neer reduce the number of the. rretraaieldyestlishments." He adds, also, that he would extend the same pri nc i p l e " to retail trade of every kind;" as he consider s th a t "in London alone several millions per annum aro pros bably wasted on d up li cate retail establishtnents." Thus nearly Association, lwh a condemn the Book se ll ers ' andooppos® and O ass o ign reasons, do so with a declared desire to get rid of—to exterminate, in fact, or seven-eighths of the present reduce London to the size of tl:d's scriptions. four- fifths w retail tradesmen of all de- Follow out Mr. size of Bedford; and ship off plan, and you would Bristol, and Bristol to the pre sent traders to Van Diemsn's L sevell-ei or a hope, held out in an conclude; and he would do this by But it was time to ghths of the simp . ly reading day last. In that journal it is by a pro mise,an evoeing journal of Triers matter might be safely Me. Grote and the 1) was raid thst to Lard Camp bell,co,,een. of Se Paul's, " the whole case. lie trusted that nothing matt and disposal." IL) trustedseusttted for salisfaclu a ry bo ulc ' the disposed of." And in this ould now he "sa question their t n hands. o , 2i 1t , d that this eseu i , 4 , but would be u s t.s t e i t: f i e i , that the whole matter eerily iserust be loft in° `I , and annoneesd that ' their opinio n ~,,_ w tr i a Lt t h o r) r re 2 donCfiAdNenPcßeEillsu ' would hs pro nounced on Wed sh neeeay neet, at two o'clock. with the other ttrbi- I 7 1.. a i London, on [NDVERTISEMENT.] —Bells ...-, - n -. Sunday . next, May the l' 's:the Derby tons, with a glance of the probable winners fthe Epsom Meeting and Oaks, by Pegasus —A pro; ranune o d countiy—Horses p 0 , i anticipate 23d, will contain -The latest state of the odds in town an d Somerset County arrived, and en route for Epsom— Bat o h f e t n he peliod— C,ieket : Races, and all the exciting turf new s . - The Al] England and other intereangnanit match for the Chnm- A few Words about the fortheom r_l f i 'l!Cole—Pedestrianiim7 a_tzhs—Aquatics: Pionship, between R. Coom R b i r es , and nd all the Sporting intelli gence Pigeon-shooting— genee of the week.ThOeiliegi7Bo, in London, 6 d. Strand. nice of lull's Idle COURT CIRCULAR went at half-past nine o'clock ye s t er d ay mornin, to Her Majesty and his Royal Highnes s Prance Allest e Marib 'rough House, Pali-mall, att en d e d by the-H o nourable Mary Sepnoer ' Lerd Charl es Fi rero Lieutenant. Colonel Hon. A. Gordon. Th e Q lee - e ' , ri d Prince iespeeted the Exhibition of the Department of Practical Art and School se: Design, and also viewed the Vernon Gallery. The Rajah of Coorg, accompanied by his daughter and an attcrelant, was presented to the Queen at an audience yesterday, at Buckingham Palace, by the Right Hen. J. C. Herries, President of the Board of Control for the Affairs of India. The Duchess d'Orleans visited her Majesty yesterday. His Royal Highness Prince Albert went, yesterday afternoon, to the Royal Institution, Albemarle-street, attended by Lieutenant Colonel Hon. A. Gordon. Her Majesty had a dinner party last evening at Buck ingham Palace. The company included her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, the Duke and Duchess of Buceleuch, the Marquis of Lansdowne, Lady Fanny Howard, the Baroness do Spetb, Viscountess Melbourne, Viscount Harding°, Viscount Mandeville, Lord and Lady Burghley, and Lieutenant-General Sir Charles and Lady Napier. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge honoured Lord Adolphus Fitzelarence with his company at dinner yesterday, at his residence in St. James's Palace. The party to meet his Royal Highness included the Earl of Malmesbury, the Earl of Bessborongh, the Earl St. Germans, Lord Elcho, Sir George Wombwell, Lord Fi a derick Fiteclarence, Major Harvey, and Mr. Tomlin°. A deputation on the subject of the Charitable Trusts Bill, consisting of Sir Robert H. Inglis, Bart., Mr. Wm. Tootie (treasurer), Mr. Michael Smith (chairman of the board of management of the Middlesex Hospital), Mr. James Nisbett, and Mr. Alexander Shedden (secretary), had an interview with Mr. Secretary Walpole yesterday, at the Home-office. Captain Cramer Roberts (Assistant Inspector-General of Constabulary), and Captain Stanley Carr (Chairman of the Committee of Australian Colonists), had en in terview with Sir John Pakington yesterday, at the Co lonial-office. Dr. Palls had an interview with Mr. Secretary Wal pole yesterday at the Home-office, to present the annual report of th e N at i ona l V acc i n e Boar& Mr. Horsman, M.P., and Mr. West, M.P. , had inter views yesterday, a t th e H ome ' office, with Mr. Secretary Walpole. Dispatches were received at the Colonial-office yester day from the Governor of St. Helena, end from the Go eel nor of Vancouver's Island. SURRE Y ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS. t propitious for the occasion, The Surrey Zoological Gardens opened for the season, and were yesterday anything bu popular and attractive although the weather was on the whole was exceedingly numerous . Among . the the c metropolis, these of them, and as the proprietor failsnever cive many pleasure -grounds that adorn the attendance of as the public with taste ael liberality,. it is are Amusement as the t c h sfte m r for the which we arc rejoiced to know is continnUlavlel .patronage but fair that ho should enjoy the extensive patronage whicht ow d upon him. During the winter many improverrioesnbttes the experience of former seasons has sug been carried out. New parterres have been added, grottos formed, and walks laid out; while tho whole of the grounds are attained and kept in a state of scrupu lous neatness and good order. The menagerie h as a l so received some valuable additions, among which are two very fine lion cubs from South Africa. They are both about the sized large mastiffs, and the mane of the lion, which is just growing, gives him a peculiarly rough and " seedy" appcatance, very unbecoming in a king ( f beasts. The principal feature of the attractions of this year consists in the colossal panoramic view of Mount Etna, whiet has added another laurel to the many already gained by Mr. Danson, the artist. In spite of the many specimens wo have seen at these gardens of Mr. Danson'a artistic skill and ingenuity , it is q uite surprising how, with the limited space at his command. he has been able to convey such an excellent id=a of great extent and fine perspective as he has done in this picture. The foreground, which is bold and rugged, is occupied by the mountain caves of Vulcan and the Cy clops, which appear almost to stand out from the can vas, while stretching backwards into the distance is the snow-capped height of Etna. The whole of the colours in this picture are harmoniously blended, and with an ad mirable view to cfnet. The slumbering volcano pit, with its mimic forests and villages,and surmounted by a rugged crater, form altogether one of the best panoramic views which these gardens have put forward for some seasons. In the early part of the evening the orchestra performed some of the most popular musical compositions of the day, while at intervals the elephants and other tame quadrupeds went through a variety of tricks under the direction of the keeper, which afforded infinite amuse ment to the juvenile portion of the company, for whose en joyment these delightful gardens are peculiarly adapted. At dusk there was an eruption of Mount Etna, which faithfully exhibited on a smaller scale the horrors of its vast original. The fire-works at the end were remark ably beautiful, and the appearance of the mountain, with huge streams of burning lava pouring down its sides, was very well managed, and elicited much ap plause. We strongly recommend those of our friends who are partial to out-door.reoreations—and who is there that is not?—to place this charming retreat for a 131:1111• 0 aloes evening upon their list of amusements. THE CRYSTAL PALACE COMPANY. Among our advertisements this day will be found the first announcement of the Crystal Palace Company. The scheme fur the removal of this enormous building to an appropriate site in the immediate neighbourhood of the metropolis will there be found explained at length. Sydenham, a station on the Brighton Railway, has been fixed upon as the spot on which the Crystal Palace is once more to display its graceful proportions. It is to be placed in the midst of a park of 150 acres, which is to be planted with specimens of every tree which can be grown out of doors in England. The Palace itself is to contain a winter garden of eighteen acres in ex tent, filled with the choicest plants and flowers. Within its walls flower-shows are to be held, which will put to shame the exhibition of Chiswickl or the Regent's-perk. There are to be sculptures by the chief living artists, and casts of the most celebrated works of antiquity. Geology and m ineralogy will receive their appropriate illustratione , while specimcna of the most striking costumes and manufactures of the various nations will be laid out as at the time of the Great Exhibition. Not the least in teresting part of this splendid spectacle will consist of samples ' of maolainery, such as those which were seen at work last year in the northern section of the bulling when it stood in its full glory in Hyde-park. In a word, as far as it may be possible, no effort will be spared to make the Crystal Palace what it was last year, and s omething more beside s. The building itself will show to much greater advanta g e when placed in the midst, otfli.anlaorgne iotpsenolsdpasciete filled with shrub; an d in Hyde-park, wh ere th e immediate proximi t y of the Kensin g ton h ouses spoiled the effect, as seen from the south. Nor, as an affair far as the arrangements for passing to and fro arc con cerned, will there be mach reason for regret. Th e situation in which the building is to be placed is as of approach for the preater proportion of t h e • , easy It .0 but inuabi.. ortd at on a . of a few minutes to pass from the tents of London as the former sit Le. Sydenham station. There are to bt) al Tidge to the from Waterloo, Vauxhall, and the B •so extra lines so that the inhabitants of any portion of Arms, m ay have the opportunity of Ni-• 11 of the rzetropdis with a tolerable degree of facility siting the Exhibition well hope that the possession of and comfort. We may and instructive recreati such means of rational en will ten to nobler habits of enjoyment d to edu ca t e t h e peop l e elevated thoughts. , to purer desi res , an d mor e —Timcs. THE NATION AL Ex Litton by of such matters, f e o t m e n t Cork,juswe to Ireland.. The managingthe gentleman_ ex tended scheme of tours lIIDITION AT Up A the spirited directors of f fur the Exhibition there companies, in conjunct' states that the preparations eels confident that are anEn glish ß N K- vii — ois alecotmter affair will do credit, infinite credit, going on admirably, and that he scale, by s has been organized, on a very liberal i t t h te e e o a h n es no te u r nc a e nd th il at ol aynheacißailway Company, railway the 30th of a most courseof issued October.ion with the . , commencing this day and terminating on Arrangements for excursion trains on moderate scale, for the operative classes, are also in different Irish . organization by the same company. The tickets will be available for one month from the date of issue, ;and will enable the holder to visit Cork, Killarney, Glenga -Iff, the Giant's Causeway, Lie., as well as m an y of the most remark localities in Ireland. The necessity of providing ample accommodation for the large influx of visitors expected in Cork has not been overlooked. A local committee has been form e d, an d a register of lodgings is kept under their superintendence and control. FI VE Y EA RS AT NEPAEL. By Captain Thomas Smith, 2 vole.—Few Englishmen posssess any acquaintance with the characteristics of Nepaul, its people, its resources, topography, Ike. To supply this deficiency Captain Smith, who commanded the escort of the political resident at Khat mandoa, and acted as his assistant, has written these volumes. The greatest praise is due to Captain Smith for d t all arranged in this intelligent the pains he has taken to put together the results of his dili gent research. No one need go elsewhere for information t g: h be the standard work on Nepaul. Captain p p cuity and completeness. It w he or w k i , H with ers i ' a anw b i o dl l l nh N teenr e ces p e a fto n i i Smith's narrative of his personal adventures is most exciting. Not less attractive is his account of the wild sports of liepaul in which he was e a distinguished actor. The work also in cludes a full account of the embassy of Jung Bahadoor down to his return to Nepaul.— United Service Gazette. MUSEUM OF ORNAMENTAL MANUFACTURES.— Yesterday morning, soon after nine o'clock, her Majesty the Queen and Prince Albert visited the Museum of Ornamen tal Manufactures, and the display of the works of the stu dents of the Department of Practical Art, at Marlborough llouse, the private view of which takes place to-day. The Queen examined minutely the whole collection, but particu larly the series of drawings and paintings illustrating the cou rse of education followed in the schools. The Queen re marked the absence of specime ns of fine lace, the only orls course of lec tures room, formehly the kitchen of Marlboro u g h House, exa mple being that of part of Mari a e n A d n e t x o a in n e l t in te e ' a s b th ed e , I p en ie t .. by Mrs. llenky ; and in the course of the day her Ma j est y several specimens of lace of great beauty to be sr nt for the purpose of study by the students. From the mu set m p th t e rat l i l o n u s s •a in l avkisiintogrbs by Mr. t o o w th ei e l new jonesf lecture on false and right principles of taste. As s the President of the Board of Trade , with the w r. Manley, erns and secretary of rho department, perintend , attended her ti • and the Prince. t jt.-..ty [ADVERTISEMENT.] Holloway 'S Pills a certain Cure for Bad Breasts - °lntl-Ilea and Mr. grocer,Pend. F. Turner, of urs—Extract of a letter from. t To Professor holloway. Sir ,_lt dated Dec. 13, ISSO r— ,, acquaint you of the wonderful ,—lt is with pleasure that I cure effected by the use of your invaluable Ointment and Pill s. than six months from a dr My wife suffered f or more oadfu medical attendant found lly sore breast, and which her your medicines, which impossible i to heal. She then tried perfect and radical , n little more than a month , effected a who saw in cure, to the astonishment of the m an y per sonsby all druggists, what an awfully bad state it had b een.—Sold 244,st ru4 d T a nd at Professor Holloway's Establishment, i uonclon,