The Sun. — London, England, 1848-04-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 31. The Earl of SuArrEsnunv, in the absence of the Lord Chancellor, took his seat upon th© Woolsack at Five o'clock. PETITIONS. Lord CAMPBELL presented petitions from various lodges of Odd Fellows praying for the legalization of the seciety. L ent ITA L3Y presented several other petitions with a dollar prayer. The lehle Lord also presented several petit's,. against any alteration in the naviga tion-lawe. SUPARANXUATION (BOROUGHS) FUND BILL. Thy Bill paused through Committee. fRELAND—THE CATHOLIC CLERGY. Lord BEAUMONT, in allusion to the returns laid on the table yesterday, asked the Noble Marquis (Lans downe) to make some statement as to the operation of the law recently passed, and as to the conduct of the Catholic clergy in Ireland. The liarisis of LANSDOWNE said that the effect of that Aot had been to put an almost complete stoppage to outrages. In one of the counties which had been most disturbed a degree of peace now prevailed equal to that in the most peaceful county of this country. In every case brought before the Special Commission both juries and witnesses had done their duty in a manner which did them honour. The Roman Catholic clergy had, he was happy to state, With few exceptions, lent their aid to enforc ing the observation of the law. He was also happy to state that a large portion of the Catholic clergy had actively exerted themselves, in opposition to those who sought to bring about insurrection, in pre venting disturbances ; and he felt bound to say that these most praiseworthy exertions of the Catholic clergy had astorially aided in preserving the public peace. Ihere had:been endeavours made to create disturbances, whisk efforts had induced the well-disposed persons to come forward to express their confidence in the Go vernment, and a declaration to the effect had in the *curse of a few hours received the signatures of 160,000 persons of all denominations in religion. In Manchester, where attempts had bees mado by agitators to create a disturbance, sixteen Roman Catholic priests bad come forward to urge their congregations to maintain the public peace, and he felt bound to say that the Govern i had the utmost reliance on that body to assist the Government in their endeavours to uphold the law in Ireland, which the Government were determined to up hold and enforce under all circumstanoes.—(Hear.) Lord STANLEY confessed that he had been mis taktn in the view which he had taken as to what would be the probable conduct of the Catholic clergy. He had heard with great satisfaction the statement of the Noble Marquis as to the conduct of the Catholic clergy, and he had read with great satisfac --- uca-lat ablUll 1,4,7 vaaaluti, ,ieigy or imincties ter. It was a matter of congratulation and pride that while the whole of Europe was convulsed, in this coun try those diaturbancee had evoked such an expression of opinion from the higher, the middle, and the lower classes, of faith in oar institutions, sufficient to overawe the small minority which would fain waste disturbances.—(Hear, hear.) He also believed that, although in Ireland the disturbance-loving minority might be large, yet still that the great majority bad that faith in the laws, that the tranquillity of the country would not be disturbed.—(Hear.) Yet, considering the wets done and the expressions used in Ireland during the last few weeks, it struck him that the law had not pro vided an adequate punishment for a class of offences which could not be dignified by the name of treason, and which yet went beyond sedition. There was a body in Ireland stimulating the people to treason, and yet not them selves open to an indictment for treason, while their acts wore calculated to lead to bloodshed, and to render them morally liable to punishment more severe and more summary than that which the law awarded to sedition. He thought the law required amendment in this respect. Lora MONTEAGLE thought this conversation had been most important, because it had elicited from the Noble irarquis the declaration that the Catholic clergy lead in general exerted themselves in main taining the law, and that the Gevernment had the greatest trust in their assistance. There was another elass to which he also wished to do justice, and that was the people themselves, who had shown a determination, even in the county of Tipperary, to bring murderers to justice. Throughout the whole of the Munster circuit the people had exhibited the greatest desire to bring criminals to justice. They were now aware that acts of insuboudination only tended to prevent the employment of labour, and consequently to injure themselves. The conversation then dropped, and their Lordships adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS, Match n. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. NEW 11ENIBER. Mr. CICINTIN Diem, who was introduced by Lord G. Bentinck and Mr. Disraeli, took the oaths and his seat for the borough of Aylesbury. Mr. CARDNVELL presented a petition from Lir( r po Act. 01, praying f or an a l terat i on in t h e P oor Removal BOWRING presented four petitions against any increase in the naval and military establiAments of the country. Mr. BOUVESRIE presented a petition in favour of the Public Health Bill; also a petition praying the House to adopt some inquiry i n t o t h e management of turnpike roads in Scotland. Mr. EWART presented several petitions in favour r f e abolition of the punishment of death. Petitions to a similar effect were also presented by Mr. TIWINNT and another lioN. MEmizEtt. Mr. gROTHERTON presented a petition Irons Cap tain Shrapnwll and others, pra3 ing for an amendment in tins law relating to letters patent. Eir. MATHESON presented petitions from the pro vost, magistrtstes, and town council of Nairn—one pray ing for legislative measures fur the relief of congrega tions in consuquenee of the refusal of church sites; one praying fir relief in the case of levying duties on the inyPntories of personal or moveable estates; and one for a more equal mode of levying prison assesitnents in St otlaud. LAMBETH WATERWORKS. Mr. [TERRIES moved that it be as instruction to the Committee on the Lambeth Waterworks Bill to enter tain the petition of Sir Edward Burtenshaw Sugden against the Bill, although the same was not presentee, within seven clear days after the second readinz of the Bill. After a few words from Sir Win. Heathcote, Mr. Disraeli, and Sir R. Inglis, Mr. GREENE said that the House had upon many occasions refused to entertain the petitions of persons against private Bills, on the ground that they were pre sented too late, and he did not think that any sufficient ground why the indulgence should be awarded in the present case to Sir E. Sug, , den. He should, therefore, give his decided opposition to it. Sir JOHN DUCKWORTH thought that the Com mittee on the Bill ought to have all the facts before it, and ho should therefore support the motion. Mr. BANKES thought this was a case on whi, h the standing orders ought to be dispensed with, and that justice would not be done if they were not. After souls observations from Mr. BARNARD and Sir W. Ha.vraeoTE the House divided, whoa there ap peared— For the motion 33 Against it Majority against the motion-13 Mr. LOCKE presented a petition from the L milts and South-Western Railway Company against the Direct Portsmouth Railway Bill. Lord G. BENTINCK presented a petition agairet railway companies becoming steam-packet companies. NOTICES OF MOTION. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK gave notice that on an early day he should move for certain returns relating t• articles of import. Mr. SPOONER said he had a notice of motion to give, but before doing so he wished to ask the Noble Lord the Member for Bath whether the Noble Lord the Member for Falkirk had positively declined to serve on the Committee of which the Noble Lord the Member for Bath had been nominated Chairman ? Lord DUNCAN said he had communicated with the Noble Lord, th© Member for Falkirk, and the Noble Lord declined to serve on the Committee. STATE OF IRELAND. Lord JOCELYN gave notice that on Monday he should put a question to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government relative to the present state of Ireland. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION. Mr. E. DENISON moved the appoint's:lent of a Select Committee to inquire into the composition and manage menu of the Ecclesiastical Commission of England and Wales. Sir R. ING LIS objected to the motion being taken, out of its turn, and Tho motion was thereupon postponed. THE FACTORY BILL. Mr. WILSON said he wished to putr h a t qu e es n tio o n me to p th e e . Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary fo Pavtreent involving matter of consequence l to tte a r li fr t o h m e 1 " I "•faeturing districts , lie had receive d a t '' • tr.rn Tusraed Page and White, of Loughborough, ques " 1 r• leitiast to ael relating the Factory Act, and a decision of a magistrataells ti on w „ of th, to this " it did an errr)r,w4iet?tmost impor tance, . clause . T involving he in woordauce with the House, had been recently discovered t intention of th e entionally, and not The parties to wham he allud o exist in the Factoryßill . trataa of Loughborough wit important part of this Act. infringe ment of an •cl W ere charged by the m7gis , me th e speaks? of factories with having Lwelre charged by the in- , oyed on a day named a woman in violation of the statute i.s. . Whit* represented that this wenianMessrys.,Zakgeeds an 6i l hours, commencing work at half-past t,w()uot‘nio-'eelroek in the the Act, day; but the inspector insisted thoatcelixt W ante.- commencing work at half-past te mount to commencing at five o'clock in the t rya orn magistrate ing; aid, therefore, in law, instead of werkin the woman had worked 13 hours. The g ut fi4 hour s , stated that he thought the case so hard a o Messrs. Paget and White that he would not bave as.= he lenawn it was coming on, and the question he wished to ask the Right Hon. Bart. was, whether an ap ))cation had b een ma d e to the Home ( Mee for - a remission of the fines, whether it was the intentio n of Government to 'emit, these fines, and whether it was the intention of Government to introduce any Bill for the purpose of explaining and amending the diacrepency in the Am? Sir GEOLIGE GREY said he had received no direct application upon the subject, and in consequence of a letter which had been received by the Member for the West Riding, and placed in his hands by his Hon. Friend the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, ho had written to the inspector at Loughborough for a report on the subject. That report he had not yet re ceived, bud when he did receive it the matter should hare his best eq2sidaration, with a view of aueink whether ahy iitteraTon in the law was necessary, ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of Mr. PARKER, the House at its rising was ordered to adjourn until Monday. PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. Captain PECHELL invired what was the intention of the Government with respect to this Bill? He asked the question, because the authorities of various towns in the country were standing still in consequence of not knowing when the Bill would be proceeded with. Sir GEORGE GREY replied, in the absence of his Noble Friend, that the Bill was in the press, and that it would be in the hands of Hon. Members in the course of a few days. THE OFFICE OF SERGEANT-AT-ARMS. Mr. HUME hoped the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) would not appoint any one to the office of Sergeant-at- Arms until an inquiry had taken place into the expe diency of making some alteration in the office. Lord J. RUSSEEL replied that the appointment could not be made until the House had expressed its opinion upon the proposed alterations; it would, of course, be nsade subject to any alteration the House might think proper to adopt. THE COLONIES. Mr. FORSTER gave notice that he should ask, on Monday, the following question of the Under-Secretary of the Colonial Office—When the promised measure fir giving self-government to the Crown Colonies, and other British possessions not having legislative and represen tave assemblies, will be brought under the consideration of the House HORSHAM. The Earl of MARCH moved that the Clerk of the Crown be directed to issue a writ for the election of a burgess to serve in Parliament for Horsham. Mr. 1 - 113 ME said, if he had been enabled to bring on his motion on this subject, it was his intention to have sug. gested to the House the propriety of not only suspending the writ for Horsham, but for every place the election for which had been declared to be void, on account of bribery and treating by Committees of the House, until further inquiry by newly-appointed Committees had been made into the allegations. He considered such a course absolutely necessary if the House wished to maintain its character before the country, and if they wished to discountenance such pro ceedings as those which had been proved to have taken place at Horsham and other places, they must take upon themselves the task of doing so, for they could not expect individual Members to go to the expense of doing so.—(Hear, hear.) From the evidence taken before the Horsham Committee it appeared that the peti tioning candidate stated that having got what he wanted, ho did not wish to proceed to any further inquiry into the allegations of the petition. He had thought that Harwich, which was an extreme case, shotild have been made an example for the proceedings that had taken Place in tr.prp_ %c m, ra c CJeIIitII.IIJUUL putpte f NI teat f louse. From the evidence to which he had referred, it appeared, according to the testimony of one witness, that the night before the election, about 160 out of the 300 persons who voted, were kept drinking and listening to music until four the next morning. Surely this was derogatory to the character of the House. He felt it his duty to move as an amendment to the motion of the Noble Lord, " That in all cases where Committees of this Housee have declared thy- scat of any Honourable Member void through bri bery or treating, this House will, with a view of promoting purity of election, suspend the issue of any new writ until a Select Committee had entered into an inquiry as to the extent of the bribery and treating in every such county, city, or borough.' lie should most certainly take the sense of the House on that amendment. Lord COURTENAY said that, as chairman of the Horsham Election Committee, he wished to make a few observations to the House upon the subject then before it. He should feel it his duty to support the motion of the Noble Lord for the issue of the writ, because, in his opinion, no facts had been proved before the Committee to lead to any conclu sion sufficient to justify a refusal to issue the writ.— (Hear, hear.) The minutes of the evidence as laid before the House contained nothing which would warrant the refusal of the writ. In consequence of the withdrawal of the petitioners frcm any further pro ceedings in the case, the Committee thought it right, in accordance with the powers granted to them by the 5 and 6 Victoria, to institute further inquiries, in order to ascertain whether the result would justify the Committee in making a special report to the House. The Com mittee called before them the agents upon both sides, and from each of them they received the most distinct disavowal of the impressions which certainly had existed in the minds of the Committee, that a compromise had existed between the parties. It was distinctly stated by one of the agents that a proposal to with draw from the inqury had been made by the agent on the other side, but that proposition did not in the least degree arise from any wish to keep back evidence with respect to bribery. The counsel for the parties admitted that the sitting Member was guilty of treating; and the Committee felt that they were bound, in the discharge of their duty, to institute the inquiries they had ; and the result of those inquiries had been that, in the opinion of the Committee, there was not sufficient evidence to justify them in making a special report to the House. It might be a subject worthy the consideration of the House whether, in prospective cases, powers might not be given to Committees to make spe cial reports in such cases, when the evidence did not extend to that length which it was now required it should do. Mr. SHAFT() ADAIR, as a member of the late Horsham Committee, begged to corroborate the state ments of the Noble Lord (the chairman of the Com mittee), who had just sat down. He should support thu motion of the Noble Lord for the issuing of the writ, being decidedly of opinion that nothing had been brought before the Committee that ought to induce the House to suspend its issuing. rho Honourable Member then went at some ler;, , ,th into the facts of what took place before the Committee, stating that, in his view, nothing like an attempt at compromise had taken place, and %lig gested, after what had taken place before Election Com mittees of that House, whether it would not be well f,r the House to adopt some system in order to put an end to the useless litigation that took place before them. Sir JOEIN RIMIER said it was clear from these frequent cases of corruption that the c3nstituency of the country was not in a satisfactory state, and he should vote for the postponement of the issuing of the writ, in the hope that it would have the effect of inducing the House to pass a measure for remedying the evils. For his part he was prepared to go into a thorough reform of the elective franchise, and sooner or later Parliament would be forced to take upon themselves the duty of adopting some steps for guardding against a repetition of these instances of corruption.—(Hear, hear.) Discontent already began to manifest itself in the country upon this subject, and the House would do well to take the matter in hand at once. At all events, whether it did or not, the House might be satisfied of this: there was an agitation going on oat of doors that would shortly toree upon it the duty of considering the propriety of an amelioration of the elective franchiso.—(Hear, hear ) Sir D. L. EVANS thought the House ought not to lea' too leniently with these cases, however light they might appear in the reports of the Committees. Only a fractional part of the corruption of general elections came before these Committees. He knew a large city which, at the last election, had forty five public-houses open for six months before the election.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Such things were disgraceful to the country and to the House ; and it was high time, as soon as the case was proved, that an example should be made by the suspension of the writ. Mr. BAILEY was understood to support the issuing of the writ. The Earl of MARC II said that some lion. Gentlemen )pposite admitted they had not read the evidence, and 4e thought they could not hare read even the report. ['here was nothing in either to warrant the suspension of the writ. Mr. SHERIDAN, a member of the Committee, sup ported the issuing of the writ. He denied that any sus picious circumstances came before the Committee to excite the suspicion of compromise, beyond the fact of the sudden abandonment of the defence on the ground of undeniable treating. Nevertheless, the Committee were determined to sift the matter to the bottom ; and he doubted whether they had not gone too far in requiring a list of the parties bribed. At all events, this was the view taken by the counsel for the petitioners. Had there been any evidence of a compromise the Committee would have reported accordingly. The contrary being the case they were justified in their resolution, that there was no call for a special report. Mr. WARILEY thought it would be unjust to the electors of this country to issue the writ. The election had been declared void through treating: and was it fair to punish only the candidate, and not the parties who led him into the error by their corrupt propensities ? They were infinitely more deserving of punishment than the candidate; and on that ground he would suspend the writ.—(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said that two very distinct ques tions were involved—one with respect to the conduct of this Election Committee, whether they had acted with due regard to the law; another, as to the course the House should pursue, supposing the conduct of the Committee to be irreproachable. He thought the Committee had pursued a course in conformity with 'heir duty, and had exercised their discretion very fairly. One question before them, and to which their attention was directed by the Act of Parliament, was, whether there had been any compromise between the parties, and whether one party had refrained from going into evidence of bribery with the view of preventing the pro secution of the petition. The Committee had inquired into the facts relating to that circumstance, and had come to the opinion that there had been no such compromise. Ho entirely gavo credit to the Committee, and thought they had come to a right decision. Then there was a provision in the A c t that further inquiry and investigation regarding it. But this Committee bribery should take place if e the coa C ld om n m ot itt w Committee recom mendedellmakeC 'hat recommendation; for although there wore allega tions in the petition respecting bribery, those bad not y no t t he b y e w g or o o ne pre in el to u , de b d y fr t o h m e k-, Cu 7 a i m g ag t i i t n tse e uec, i h n aa t n o dr , e a ccoo n nin d sn3e c go o tnl u ed l n d attlion._( there had been Hear, hear.) Under these c ircumstances he saw no occasion for suspending the writ. — Meer hear.) One of the allegations was, that liament referred to And that such b. gross, systematic bribery, and notorious in the borough. ' should have bee ribery was open ,y ehre.though extensive, t i a t n w d as Though he had introduced the Act of Par 'louse, defective, and he given to the to order the case glad had a special Where such allegations were . made, Select Committee and to be further tried by . a power been to obtain from a special report. In this case there them . . I report. Still he waS disposed More this writ issued, that there inquiry respecting the allege-dreb could be no such special lie thought the case was one of s ribery.—( it was right for the Muse to furt he rinaotilt=hs think it might be fit, should be some further Hear, hear.) that tie was not prepared, however, to agree to tbinquiry. %mond- THE SUN, LONDON, ment of the Hon. Member for Montrose, because it was too general in its character. The allegation of bribery I might be made only with regard to one or two electors, and might not affect the general character of the borough. If the allegation affected the general cha racter of the borough, it was desirable that further in quiry should be made. Mr. BANKES said the Committee were unanimous is the opinion to which they had come. Nothing appeared before them to induce a suspicion that there had been a compromise. He was prepared to support the view of the Noble Lord if he thought there should be a further inquiry. Sir H. PEEL said that the Hon. Member for Mon trose proposed by his amendment that the House should abandon its discretion respecting the issuing of writs, where Members were charged with bribery or treating, till there was a previous inquiry by a Select Committee. He thought it was desirable to institute an inquiry where particular charges of bribery were made against the sitting Member, but he doubted the policy of depriving themselves of all discretion in every case where a Mem ber might be unseated on a charge of treating. Ile thought it better that they should decide on each parti cular case, and not deprive themselves of all discretion by the adoption of an inflexible rule.—(Hear, hear.) He understood the Noble Lord to propose the suspension of the writ, not for an indefinite period, but till a further inquiry was instituted, and in that case he was prepared to support him. Atter a few words from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, The Earl of i , IARCH withdrew his motion. Mr. HUME said that having obtained the object he had in view, he would also withdraw his amendment. The issuing of the writ for Horsham is therefore sus pended in order that further inquiry may take place. TIIE NAVIG ATION-LAWS. In answer to Mr. J. B. SMITH, Mr. LABOUCIIERE said that the Hon. Gentleman had asked two questions: the first was whether a cargo of cotton arriving at Havre from the United States could be admitted into this country, no part of the cargo having been discharged? If a cargo so imported entered under the American or British flag, it might come to this country as if the vessel had come direct from the United States, although it might have first entered the port of Havre. The second question was whether a cargo of cotton arriving under the French flag would be allowed to come into this country under the French flag; and whether the Government would make a special exception in this case in consequence of the cotton being unsaleable in Havre? Ho could only say that the admission of cotton under the French flag would be a distinct violation of the navigation-laws, which they could not take upon themselves. In answer to Mr. BRIGHT, Mr. LABOUCHERE said that, in the present state of it. was impn..;l.l. ...y ciure fur bringing forward the subject of the navigation laws; but full notice would be given when the Government were prepared to bring the question before the Louse. POOR LAWS. In answer to Lord G. BENTINCK, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that what he had stated in the debate on the income-tax was, that upwards of 600,0001. poor-rates had been paid for the relief of the poor in Ireland for four months, and at that rate that upwards of 2,000,000/, would have been expended in the year for the relief of the poor. The sum expended for the relief of the poor in England and Wales up to Lady-day, 1847, was 5,280,0001; and the estimate of the probable expenditure up to Lady-day in the present year would be between 200,0001. or 300,0001. more. He was not able to say what was the amount expended in Scotland. Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to know whether the sum of 600,000/. 'paid in Ireland included any sums for the repayment of money expended in relief works, or for the advances to certain districts in Ireland under the recent Act. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the whole amount was expended for the relief of the poor. Mr. P. SCROPE said the rates for the next four months were not likely to be so productive as those of the preceding four months. Mr. DISRAELI wished to know whether the 600,00(M included any arrears? The CHANCELLOR of the EX ..'HEQUER said that he could only say that 600,0001. was the amount paid. Sir 11. W. BARRON said the House would not come to a just conclusion unless they knew the amount of pro perty rated to the poor in England and Ireland. BALTIC TRADE. Mr. J. CLAY wished to know from the Noble Lord (Palmerston) whether the Government had taken any steps to protect British trade in the ports of the Baltic, in consequence of the events which were passing there? Lord PALMEBSTON said that no measures had been taken, the Government having no reason to suppose that any would be necessary.—(Hear, hear.) CROWN COLONIES. Mr. FORSTER wished to ask the Under-Secretary of the Colonial-office when the promised measure for giv ing self•government to the Crown colonies, and other British possessions not having legislative and repre sentative assemblies, would be brought under the consi deration of the House. Mr. HAWES said that he was only waiting for an opportunity to introduce such a Bill with respect to Australia. Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Bill would extend to Van Diemen's Land. Mr. HAWES said it was under consideration whe ther Van Diemen's Land would be included in the Bill or not. With regard to the other colonies, it was not in contemplation to introduce any Bill (as lvtai under stood). ThE CASE OF MR. FOLLETT.-COUNTY COURTS. Mr. B. COCHRANE said that having brought under the notice of the House on a former occasion the case of PoNett, who had been sent to prison for contempt of court, because he was not able to pay a debt he owed, he begged to mention another case which was equally hard, and of which he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would also take cognizance. The present was the case of a man who owed 2/. 65., and because he was not able to pay he was sent to prison, had to mix with felons, to pick oakum, and to lie on an iron bedstead. It the law permitted such great hardships, the sooner it was changed the better. Sir G. GREY said he apprehended the court had the power of committing a fraudulent debtor who contracted debts without a possibility of being able to pay. With regard to the case of Pollett, he had written to the visiting justices and received their report. He addressed a letter to them since then, calling their attention to the regulations which ought to be enforced in prisons, and which if enforced would prevent Pollett from being treated as a felon. Ile had not seen any account of the other case to which the Hon. Gentleman referred. After a few words from Mr. COCHRANE and Mr. BAILLIE, Mr. BERNAL said he thought the rules and regula tions for the internal management of prisons in tho me tropolis should be exhibited to the proper authorities of the department over which his Right Hon. Friend pre sided. The cases stated by the Hon. Gentleman oppo site were of a most intolerable nature.—(Hear.) SICILY. Mr. HUME wished to know whether Lord Minto was interfering between Naples and Sicily as an authorised agent of the Government ? As it was important that they should keep aloof from the suspicion of intermed dling with other states, he hoped he should receive a satisfactory answer. Lord J. RUSSELL said that Lord Minto had cre dentials to the Court of Naples, and, la•sving been re quested by the King of Naples and his Ministers to interpose the good offices of this country for the pur pose of making terms with Sicily, Lord Minto, as the representative of an ally of the King of Naples, thought he could do no less than interpose in that measure, and he proceeded in a ship of war with such terms as h e thought would be satisfactory to Sicily. But though h e proceeded in a ship of war it was not his intention to use any force, and he went there merely with a view of rendering a friendly service. Mr. HUME hoped that as the King of Naples had now abdicated, his interference would cease. EVICTIONS IN GALWAY. Mr. SCItOP2, said that the subject of which he had given notice was of sufficient Importance to be brought forward in going into Committee of Supply, but as the subject was under the consideration of Government, and as they intended to introduce a measure for the purpose of putting an end to those frightful and shocking evic tions which were taking place in Ireland, he would be content to leave the matter in their hands. It was ne cessary, however, that the measure should be speedy and thorough, because ejectments to an enormous extent were about to take place. There were 6,000 ejectments served in ono union alone. The Bill should not be con fined to illegal ejectments, because cases of a more frightful and terrific character took place under the form of law, as in the case of Balling, where 140 families were turned out of their homes in mid winter by Mr. Walsh, who was an attorney, and therefore well knew what ho was about. He would, however, leave the matter in the hands of the Government. Mr. OSBORNE thought the course which the Govern ment and the Hon. Gentleman had taken reflected credit on both parties.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. FRENCH said the conduct of the Hon. Member for Stroud was deserving of censure for bringing for ward charges against the Irish landlords night after night, which he did not proceed with, so as to give others an opportunity of answering them. He could show that his charges had no foundation in truth. Mr. REYNOLDS thought the Hon. Member for Stroud was deserving of praise, instead of censure, for the manner in which he took up this question.—(Hear, hear.) The last charge he brought against the Irish landlords was founded on official authority, that of Major MiKie.—(llear, hear.) It appeared in the report of the Central General Relief Committee of Ireland, over which the Marquis of Kildare presided, that 580 pa rishes, including one-fourth of the country, had sent returns, which were substantiated by the parochial clergy, and from these returns it appeared that up to December, 1847, no less than 35,166 individuals died of actual starvation; 94,007 had died from diseases caused by bad and insufficient food; 68,140 were at that date labouring under disease, and 62,756 had emigrated. But 90,000 had emigrated to Canada, and of these the lion. Member for Kinsale (Mr. Hawes) admitted that 15,000 died. If he took the entire of Ireland it would appear from this statement that not less than 1,000,000 human beings had been swept off the face of the earth for want of food. Could the parallel of this melancholy fact be found in the history of any civilised, or even uncivilised nation? The people of Ireland felt that nothing could make them worse than they were, and they began to despair of justice from that House. Mr. STAFFORD (lid not think the conduct of the lion. Member for Stroud was open to the criticism of the Hon. Member for Roscommon. He observed that there were some omissions of correspondence in the blue book relating to the evictions in Galway, which might in some degree modify facts ; but, allowing for all de ductions on that ground, there was enough left to shock and horrify any human being.—(llear, hear.) It should be recollected that the legislation of that Hlo►ase was not wholly blameless. It was, in fact, particeps criminis, for it held out the strongest inducements and temptations to the landlords of Ireland to make those evictions. Sir G. GREY really did hope the House would not now enter into a general discussion on the state of Ire land and the Irish poor-law. He believed the poor-law, whatever might be the difficulties of its operation, had greatly mitigated the distress existing in Ireland. With regard to the particular question before the House, he would only say that the Government had no reason to disbelieve the statement of Major M•Kie. The Govern. men felt that sufficient powers ware not given under the law for the protection of evicted parties, and a measure was under their consideration with reference to the ( W Hear, hear.) W. BARRON said Ireland would be quite s s u at bS i j s ier ft e e tn d T if they had a bond fide poor-law such as they had in England. Members ran away with the idea that the laws were the same, but in reality they were mate rially different. The Irish law was a palpable failure, and was pauperising a large proportion of the farmers of the country. With respect to the evictions complained of, he staked his veracity and experience that in nine• teen cases out of twenty, if the facts were really sifted, the evidence against the landlords would break down. Half the charges were pure falsehoods or gross exagge rations. Sir G. GREY said if the lion. Member would inform him of a single case in which the statements of the blue book were untrue or exaggerated, he would strictly sift it. ___ Sir 11. W. BARRON said it would be impossible for him to point to cases. Many of the people charged really did not know that they were accuccd. Mr. FAGAN highly eulogised the general conduct of Mr. P. Scrape. He thought the gratitude of Ireland was due to the Hon. Member for bringing forward the case of Mr. Blake. He should like to ask tho Govern ment whether it was intended to publish the correspond ence relative to that transaction ? He also wished to direct the attention of the Government to the evictions now going on upon an estate in the 'fralee union under the authority of the Court of Chancery. Upwards of 500 miserable persons had been evicted. Mr. MONSELL said that hating read the blue book with considerable attention, he felt bound to say that the statement therein contained appeared to him to be draw❑ up with great care and attention. Mr. R. M. FOX asked whether the returns relating to the Chancery estates in Ireland were prepared? Sir W. SOMERVILLE said ho believed the papers were on the treble of the House. Mr. OSBORNE said that was a mistake. The return iu manuscript, but it was not printed, and was likely to occupy some time in going through the press in con sequence of its voluminous character. Mr. HUME appealed to the Go►ernment to bring the whole subject of Ireland under the consideration of the Howe. The order of the day was then read, and the House went into a Committee of SUPPLY-ARMY ESTIMATES. Mr. F. MAULE then rose. He said it was now his duty to propose to the House the amount of force which her Majesty's Government had thought necessary to propose for the ensuing year for the defence of this country and its dependencies. The question as to the amount of force to be maintained in this country was one which depended upon the Executive Government, and any refusal to grant this force, which any Govern ment thought proper to propose, would be in a great degree expressive of a want of confidence in that House. If the Government, therefore, had committed the fault of sending this vote to a Coaamittee up•stairs, they would of course materially have neglected the perform ance of their duty. Accordingly, he had to propose that a force of 113,847 men be voted for the year en suing, exclusive of the force in the East India Com pany's service. He could assure the House that that estimate had been drawn up with every regard to eco nomy. Now, there were two objections taken to this Tote. The first was, that a court of inquiry had ex isted ; and the second was, that the force was unne cessarily large. With respect to the first point he begged the House to compare the estimates of the present year with those for 1828, which would show that whilst our force had been increased, its propor tionate cost had been considerably reduced. Jo 1835, again, the number of officers for whom a charge was made, was 4,405, whilst this year we had 4,800 officers, and tke rank and file were in proportion; but the charges were by no means so high in proportion as they were in 1335. As compared, therefore, with 1835 there had been no want of economy whatever on the part of the present Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman then stated the details of the various economical arrange ments that had been effected during past years. But the next question to consider was, whether the force proposed was too large a force for the country to main tain in the present state of affairs in Europe and the civilised world. He did not found his demand for an increased number of men upon the state of things beyond the Channel, for the estimates were framed before that state of things arose. lie relied upon the general expe diency which called for a thoroughly effective military force. The condition of Ireland, more especially at present, rendered it necessary that the military establish ment there should certainly not be diminished, and our wide spread colonies, our military stations in the Mediter ranean, and in every part of the world, required the main tensnce of an adequate force, not merely in the respective localities, but as a reserve at home for the relief, from time to time, of those foreign settlements. In Canada, where our frontier, needing constant watching, had been gradually extending itself, an increase of military force had been matter of absolute necessity. A similar increase had become essential in Bermuda, in New Zealand, and at Hong Kong, a new settlement pe culiarly requiring effective protection. The new system of rotation of foreign service was effecting the highly desirable object of limiting the lowest period of foreign service fur our infantry regiments to twelve years, a resulttmost beneficial to the physical condition of the troops, and which, by rendering the service more attrac tive, would lessen the military expenditure in limiting the necessity for recruiting. As to any reduction in the number of our troops, whether at home or abroad, he regarded it as wholly impossible. No man, he believed, would say that in the present state of Ireland any troops could be withdrawn from that country.—(Hear, hear.) There were at this moment in Ireland 26,000 troops, scattered over 150 stations. In no part of her Majesty's dominions had soldiers more harrassing duties to per form, and he would add nothing could be more exem plary than the conduct of the troops had been during the past year.—(Hear, hear ); England, too, required the full amount of the troops now maintained, and of the addition he proposed. In England and Scotland, on the Bth of March, there were 26,474 infantry, and 3,553 cavalry, :30,000 in all, being one soldier to 1,000 of the population. He could not suppose that aay Hon. Gen tleman would, on reflection, consider that this was too large a military force for the protection of this wealthy country at once from domestic violence, and from the chance of foreign aggression. He hoped the House, therefore, would consent to no reduction in these estimates. The present was peculiarly a moment when this country should not wear even the aspect of weakness.--([Tear, hear.) The vote was then put from the chair (113,847 men, exclusive of the troops in the East Indies). Mr. HUME expressed his approbation at the manner in which the present Government managed the army, and the active steps they had adopted for improving its moral tone. As to the extent of the army, that was another thing. It was extremely natural in the Right H o nourable Gentleman to desire to giv e hi s parti a s b p u e t c tt the ef question t utmoston for t h e complete House - e n u es laz n d f ep e is v r e t n me d n is t pl a a n y of Commons was, whether the number of troops de mended exceeded the actual necessity of the case, and whether adequate efficiency could not be attained at less outlay, more especially in the existing condition of our finances. The Right Hon. Gentleman might very well say that these were not times in which an ade quate military force should be kept up, but 'these were also times in which no money should be laid out , for this or any other purpose, than the actual wants of the state necessitated. Now, in his clear conviction, the number of troops demanded did exceed tho actual wants of the State, for he regarded the apprehensions under which the Government purported to proceed us mere delu sions. The Right Hon. Gentleman had adverted to the circumstance that the estimates were framed before the new state of things on the continent. Now, in his (Mr. Hume's) opinion, we were in a much better posi tion since the manifestation of this new state of things than we were before it ; infinitely less liable to the risk of war, and Jess called upon, therefore, to increase our military for ces , He was convinced that if we did not meddle with other nations, there was no other nation at all disposed to meddle with us. The various powers of the continent had quite enough to do to mind their own business, and w e ourselves, for that matter, were likely to have qu i te enoug h occup a ti on i n th e same wa y.— (Hear, h ear.) I n 1833 we h a d on l y 80 , 000 troops—wh y were we now to b e sa ddl e d w ith th e maintenance of 113,00 0 troops ? There was even less necessity f or sw,ooo men than there was ten or fifteen years ago, for since that time an effectual police force had be en created both i n I re l an d an d i n E ng l an d, w h o answered m any o f the purposes of protection to life and property which the military had previously fulfilled. H 11 is Right --en. Friend had asserted that the docks , warehou ses, and depo t s were p u bli c p ro p er ty w hi c h demand e d protection, an d th e h ome army was use f u l i n that resp ot t of domestic police? He did not desire but was there not the civil force available for the purposes to discha rge a single man f rom t h o army b y hi s mot i on . The prop osed re duction could be effected by stopping the recruiti ng serv i c e, which gave 12,000 men every year to the se. es i ee , The number of troops would then be reduc e d within spect to th e colonies, h e t h oug h t t h at t h ey oug h t to b e taught to the year to 100,000 men. With re taught at their own expense for self-defence. required th ere would b e unnecessary . If t h e co l on i es govern themselves, and then the troops now were equitabl y trea t e d they would at the present me tnent hav e h The moti on he was a b out to ma k e was on l y t h e f i rst step toward s the final re d uct i on w hi c h h e urge d. Il e contemplated en a further reduction of 30 , 000 men within the next few Years. What he bad to more was, that the number of troops be reduce d to 100,000 men, hich was the amount of The moti on w en voted three years ago, and 20,000 more than w ere voted i n 1 835 . chair, Mr. V. SMITH did not agree with the Hon. Member and amendment having been put from the for also internal that Montrose, that the aspect of Europe presented no thing to ind uce the House to assent to the demand o f the Govern ment for the num b er of men proposed in the estimate bef ore them. It m i g h t h appen that some of the European nations would have enough to do at ho me; but tu turn gettingn their it t we i s a ofd o possible e i t o foreign attention one d prawourcuelmorertise, with a view. mr s lie them ( m lr i gh oft. Smith) did see the possibility of a reduction in the army SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 1, 1848. being effected, but not an immediate one. The colonial service was one that admitted of a great reduction in the army, by teaching them to rely upon themselves for their own defence; and in this opinion the lion. Member for Oxford, and his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, had on a former occassion expresssed their assent. Mr. B. OSBORNE said, that when the estimates were first proposed he was of opinion, considering Europe was in a state of profound peace, the number of men de manded was too great, but the recent events that had occurred had tended to modify his opinion. lie objected to the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. Manly) taking the year 1835 as that which gave a proper standard for the number of troops. The standing army, which was in troduced by Charles IL, a Icing of whom the nation ought ever to entertain the deepest abhorrence, had gone on increasing ever since in numbers. The number of the field officers at three different epochs would show how the expenses had gone cc increasing. He would take the year 1783, at the close of the American war; the year 1798, when the French war commenced; and the present year. In 1783 the number of field officers was 824, in 1799 it was 1,863, and in 1848, a period of profound peace, the number of field officers had swelled to 2,106, showing a greater proportion of field officers than was required to officer a French army of 400,000 men. The expenditure of the army during the 32 years of peace amounted to no less than 445 millions sterling. Ho should not have troubled the House with these details, had he not conceived that he could point out the means of effecting a great saving in the army estimates. The proposal which ho had to bring under the notice of the Committee divided itself into three distinct heads. First, the consolidation of all the different departments of the army into one; secondly, by effecting a consider able reform in the expenditure; and, thirdly, by reducing the number of men. The army was divided into three branches—cavalry, infantry, and ordnance; and all three had separate official establishments, without any one central head. There were the Commander-in-Chief and the Secretary at War; but they might be at issue on the moat important points of regulation. The Committee of 1837 had recommended that the greater portion of autho • rity over the army should be vested in the Secretary at War, who for that purpose was to be made a member of the Cabinet. He would ask why had not her Majesty's present Ministers carried out that plan, seeing that the report of 1837 was signed by three of the most influen tial of their body ?—(Hear.) The Board of Ordnance consisted of seven members, whose salaries amounted to 9,0001. a year, which sum might be saved by consoli dation. Then there was the commissariat, where reform might also be effected, but not until the estab lishment of a complete system of colonial reform. The cost of the military establishments were—horse-guards, 96,000/.• ordnance, 91,000!.; and commissariat, 316,0001. lie would propose to abolish the office of Master-General of the Ordnance and his five assistant'. He would also abolish the Secretary-at-War and his deputy.—(Oh, oh.) He maintained it was quite possible to do so—and also the Judge .Advocate and his deputy. These two reduc tions would save 8,0001. a year. There was the agency also, which might safely be abandoned. It cost 32,000/ a year, and he did not see any necessity there was for it. The Indian army had no agency, and its stations were much more distant than ours. Then there were such things as sinecures in the army. The colonels of regiments might in his opinion be safely done away with. The duty was all done by the lieu tenant-colonels, and, besides, the manner in which the colonels were paid was disgraceful to themselves and the army.—(Bear, hear.) Then profits on clothing were calculated at 6001. a year for each battalion, so that when a regiment contained two battalions the colonel's profit on the clothing was 2,2001. a year. In this way 95,000/. per annum might be saved.—(Hear, hear.) He found that there were 387 generals on the army list, of whom 147 were colonels of regiments, re ceiving in that capacity an aggregate of 90,000/. a year. The second majors were almost useless, and might easily be dispensed with, and there 45,000/. more might be saved. The next point to which he would call the at tention of the Committee was the system of brevet rank. It obtained in no service but ours, and was the cause of great and useless expense. Then, in the miscellaneous expenses, there were a great many items which might be done away with. For instance, the table allowance at Dublin and St. James's was quite useless, and cost the country 32,000/. a year. Another great anomaly of the British army was to be found in the ordnance de partment. Our army was the only army in the world in which the artillery was an insulated force. In every other service it was part and parcel of the army. With us they were ruled by a separate board, consisting of officers, not one of whom had ever served in the depart ment over which they were appointed to rule. Under this head there was charged 825,0001. for stores. Of that sum he believed that a great portion might be saved if the stores were taken by contract. The Indian army was supplied with everything by contract, except pow der, and with the most beneficial effects as regarded economy. Hon. Members had alluded to the superiorly of our weapons, but he begged to assure the Committee that the French muskets were much superior to ours, and had a considerably greater range. In all the items he had enumerated there might be, if his suggestions were adopted, a saving effected of 570,0001. a year with out the reduction of a single man.—(Hear, hear.) But there was yet another saving which had been proposed by his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose—he meant a reduction in the number of men. He believed that before that was effected a general alteration and reform must take place throughout the whole of our co lonial system.—(Hear, hear.) A large portion of the army was required for Ireland, but he believed that it Government had taken up Irish questions with much larger views, and had shown a sincere wish to amelio rate the, norolition of the people, Lclaud tv mild not be in her present unsatisfactory condition. He could not sup port his Hon. Friend's motion for a reduction of 13 00(1 men; but, nevertheless, he trusted that be should have his Hon. Friend's support iu the retrenchments which he proposed. Colonel SIBTHORP was surprised to hear such attacks on the British army from one of its own distin guished officers the Hon. Member for Middlesex.—(A laugh.) He (Colonel Sibthorp) maintained that the effi ciency of the British army was celebrated all over the world, and had been proved wherever it had been tested. He should support the Government against the amend ment of tho Hon. Member for Montrose. Sir W. MOLES WORTH, who spoke amidst manifest signs of impatience from both sides of the House, reca. pitulated the statements he had made on a previous evening as to the growing increase of the military ex penditure of the country since 1835, which he contended had been the main cause of the deficiency of the income as compared with the expenditure in the estimates. There would have been no deficit in the present year had the estimates for the army, navy, and ordnance re mained at the same amount as they stood at when the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) last came into office, in 1845-6. It was obvious one of three things must result--either they must reduce tho expenditure, increase the income, or consent to a permanent defi ciency. The inconvenience of the latter course all must admit ; and whether the income of the country could he materially increased, at least for the present, might well be doubted. The question then was, in what way the expenditure of the country could be diminished. First, they had to consider whether, without detri ment to the public service, the army could be reduced. lie felt bound to say, that while we maintained our pre• sent numerous colonial dependencies, no reduction of any amount could safely be made. The army was noa the hardest worked force of any. He believed, however, that by a reform of the colonial system, much of thr. force might be dispensed with. I e was as much in favour of colonisation as any man, but he thought under proper arrangements the work of colonisation might be Carried on without military aid. Soldiers were the worst of colonists. Then what necessity was there for keeping up so large a military force in this country ? The force at present kept up at home was much beyond the average, and he contended that there was nothing in the state of the country to justify this.—(Oh.) There was no great question at this time agitating the minds of the people. The number of men voted last year was 103,600; this year the number proposed was 113,000. What ground had been stated for this increase ? He should vote for the number of men being limited to the number voted last year.—(The Hou. Baronet was fre quently interrupted by cries of " Divide"). Mr. COBDEN observed that, where so much impa tience was evinced on the question whether they should vote 7,100,0001. for the army, in addition to 7,900,0001. for the navy, he could scarcely hope by anything he could say to bring back the feeling of the House to a proper sense of its duty to the country.—(Hear, hear, and ironical cheering.) His Honourable Friend pro• posed to reduce the navy expenditure one-sixth, and now proposed to reduce that of the army one ninth. [An lion. Member observed it was not a question of ex penditure," but " men."] But the number of men settled the whole question.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee of Inquiry on the army, navy, and ordnance began by de claring that they had no right to interfere with the number of men, and the question could therefore be only dealt with by the House. The country was now suffer ing heavily from taxation, and anxiously looking for some remission; but the House by passing these large items would not leave itself any room for retrenchment. They could not touch the interest on the national debt, which was 27,000,0001, nor the unfunded debt, nor the consolidation fund; and if they nowconsented to this vote, they would have disposed of 49,000,0001. of the esti mates of the country. Wheu the miscellaneous estimates were brought forward, it was possible that some mise rable trumpery vote about a messenger's wages would receive a warm opposition ; some patriotic Member would, perhaps, raise his voice against the expense of the buckhounds, or against some clap-trap vote of the kind. But it was only right the country should know that if that House once allowed these large items of the public expenditure to pass, there was no hope of retrenoh• ment. Were Hon. Gentlemen opposite prepared for the great discontent which was rising up in the minds of the people in consequence of the present enormous weight of taxation.—(lronical cheers and laughter.) He wished that those Hon. Gentlem en w h o jeered and laughed would come to him some morning and read the letters which he received on the subject,—(Moro ironical cheers.) He believed that Hon. Gentlemen opposite had not a single partisan amongst the working classes, and that they knew little or nothing of the feelings of the middle cl asses. —(Cries of " Oh.") He wanted to know how the Government were to make up the deft ciency of 1,800,0001. on last year and 3,000,000/. on this. They were now asked to vote away money before they had got it, and he wanted to know how they were to get it. They were not to have an increased income-tax. Would the Government propose any other tax, and if so, what was it to be ? Would it be a tax on property ? Were they pre pared to propose a legacy and probate duty on land? or would they have recourse to the Bank at the risk of another panic? It was lamentable to hear talk of the danger we wore in from France, or Russia, or any other country. The danger was in the state of our finauces.--(Cries of " Oh.") He repeated what he said when the vote for the navy was before them—that we should be stronger with a surplus revenue, and fewer ships and soldiers, than with an increased armament and a deficient revenue.—(Hear, hear, and cries of " Oh.") Hon. Gentlemen talked of the state of Europe, but the people of Europe were too much engaged with their own business to come and attack us.—(lronical cheers.) He would not now attempt any argument on the subject, but would merely ask if Hon. Gentlemen opposite were ready to incur the discontent of the working classes at the present amount of taxation? — (Cries of " Oh.") In their name he protested against the manner in which the question before the Committee had been received, against the perfect recklessness with which the public money was to be voted, and the im patience with which any opposition to it was met. He warned Hon. Gentlemen that they would repent of having voted money which they had not got to spend. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the impatience referred to was referable to the topics introduced by Honourable Gentlemen, and not to the question before the Com mittee. All that they had said respecting the details of finance, the navy estimates, the constitution of the Ord nance Board, and so forth, might have been conceded, and the question before them, of the number of men, have been entirely untouched.—(Hear, hear.) Surely it was no reproach to the Committee that they were patient, seeing that no argument upon those details could in the least degree assist them in making up their minds on tke question before them —(Hear, hear.) He admitted, with the Honourable Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, that this and similar votes deter mined the general amount of expenditure for the present year, and that reducing small votes, although it might show a disposition to economise and retrench, would have little influence on that general expenditure. The Honourable Member for Southwark was mistaken in supposing that the Government proposed a large increase to the naval and military ex pense. Since their accession to otßce, taking the number of men, which was the great test, they had only added 3,003 for the navy, and about 3,200 for the ordnance. That certainly was not so great an in crease as to justify the remarks of that lion. Baronet. He said that the Government were now proposing an addition of 5,000 men to the army, the fact being that the general amount of the army remained the same. But it did so happen that men who had been employed in India, and who were not included in last year's vote, were included in this. It was admitted that 22,000 men was not too great a force for India, with its 12,000 miles of frontier; there were continual demands from Aus tralia ; Mauritius must be protected ; Malta and Gibraltar could not be left without proper garrisons; and the force of the West Indies must be kept up. Looking, therefore, to our colonies, and to the rule of reinforcement by which troops could only be kept ten years abroad and five at home, there was, he considered, sufficient ground to justify the estimate proposed. It had been said that we should seek to defend our institu tions, not by military power, but by the affections of the people. He readily admitted that our case would indeed be desperate if we had to rely upon the force we now pos sessed in order to defend the throne and institutions of the country.—(Loud cheers.) He quite admitted as much for Queen Victoria as for Elizabeth, that the best guards which these could have were to be found in the affections of their subjects. It should be recollected that we were not living in times when every man was a soldier, or in structed in military tactics. The state of our society was such, that a great proportion of the people, being entirely engaged in pursuits of industry and commerce, found themselves, in the event of the slightest disturb ance, in want of protection.--(Hear, hear.) When he was in the Home-office he did not think he had ever been appealed to to defend the institutions of the country; but he had been often appealed to by manufacturers and merchants from Lancashire and Yorkshire—(Loud cheering on the Oppositition benches)—stating that the amount of troops must be increased, or they would not be safe where they were; and more than once had he been told by respectable men that they must take their wives and families to a different part of the coun try unless a greater military force was granted.—(Hear, hear.) The fact was, that all those alarms and disquie tudes which occurred in towns containing from 20,000 to 50,000 inhabitants were caused by about 500 boys from fifteen to twenty years of age, who went about with torches, and put the whole town into a state of commo tion and disturbance. It was not for protecting the throne and institutions of the country, but in the civi lized and social condition of England, for the purpose of defending the great majority, and saving them from the disquietude and trouble of arming themselves, the pre sent amount of home force was kept up.—(Hear, hear.) de hoped, therefore, that Hon. Gentlemen would not think it necessary to repeat such commonplaces.— (Cheers.) He should have thought, too, that the condi tion of foreign affairs was such as to prevent any Mem ber of that House from selecting this particular year for making any reduction in the military or naval force of the country.—(Hear, hear.) No man could look to that state of affairs and say that no danger would spring out of it, or that he was sure of the course which foreign oountries would take, or the relations that would exist some time hence between those countries and this.—(Hear, hear.) Up to the present moment, he was happy to say, nothing had occurred to induce England to interfere by a protest, or even by so much as a remonstrance with any continental state. But till, although there was nothing which should in duce the ,Government to add to the estimates they proposed before these troubles broke out over the whole continent of Europe, he did think it would not be wise to make any reduction at the present moment. The lion. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire in vited them to the consideration of another point— namely, the great pressure of taxation. That question ba-t already been urged in the debate on the income tax. Looking at the distress which prevailed in many parts of the country, it was_ a fitting subject to consider whether any of these taxes pressed unduly, or whether a more equitable apportioning of them ought not to be made. He deeply deplored the distress and embarrass ment which many of our richest and lately flourishing towns had felt, owing to the scarcity of food and other visitations. He should therefore have been most happy to have proposed a great reduction of the army, nary, and ordnance estimates, if possible; but under the pro sent circumstances which pervaded Europe, and what ever might be the purport of the letters which the Hon. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. Cobden) might have in his possession, whatever the remon strances which might be made from any quarter, he (Lord John Russell) thought he would be abandoning the permanent and general interests of the country to the ill understood complaints of those who hereafter might reproach the Government for yielding to them, if he did not ask the Committee to agree with the Government in their proposal of the military force they now asked, feeling convinced that such a force was necessary for purposes essential for the safety of this country.—(Loud cheers.) Sir D. L. EVANS said ho had no wish to protract the discussion, but he must deny the assertion made by the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) that this was in fact a war estimate. In fact, the difference be tween the present estimate and that of last year was a decrease of 126 men and an increase of 300 horses. The truth was, that the present was essentially the same estimate as that of last year. And what was the regular force which it was asked to keep up for the defence of this portion of the kingdom—this very centre of the British empire. Why, it was only 22,000 men, cavalry, and infantry. In the course of the discussion America had been pointed to as setting this country an example in respect of the reduction of the naval and military establishment. Though America, owing to the concen tration of her dominions, was more secure than this country, whose territories were spread far and wide, still America kept up a regular military force of 56.000 men, besides having a militia amounting to 1,300,000 strong. But in this country the Executive Government wore, he must say, ?laced in a difficulty, for they were told they must neither have a sufficient regular military force, nor would they be allowed any militia whatever. He (Sir D. L. Evans) had to night waited to hear the Hon. Member for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden), but that Hon. Member had to-night made a most inoffensive speech, as compared with those de livered elsewhere, which he (Sir I). L. Evans) had read. To-night the Hon. Member had been much milder than on former occasions, for he had talked of the merits of the army, though formerly he had said much of the demoralisation of the army and navy, and of the inutility of both services in times of peace.—(Hear, hear.) Last year nothing had been heard from the Hon. Member, except on the subject of free trade, but in the present session the Hon. Member appeared to have wholly abandoned his vocation. After having achieved for him self an immortal triumph, which had obtained for him the tributes of every capital in Europe, the lion. Member had come back, but had not uttered to the [louse one word on the great question of free trade.—(Hear, hear, from the Protectionists.) Nay, on the 19th of February last the lion. Member had told the House that in a great part of Europe, and in France especially, there existed no other feeling on the part of the people but the desire for the extension of the principles of free trade; but in one single week afterwards it had been found that these very people were thinking of something wholly different.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member had on his return eschewed the question of free trade. Ho had, though oft invited, declined to enter upon it unless the question was put, as he himself said, in some tangible shape. It was true the Hon. Member had stated that free trade was settled; but what was the fact? Why, that on some of the British manufactures 200, 300, and in some cases 1,000 per cent. duties have been placed by other nations; and so far from free trade making the slightest progress in any other country, the matter was wholly out of the question.—(Hear, hear, from the pro tectionists.) He (Sir D. L. Evans) knew not how it happened that the Hon. Member had taken to naval and military matters—perhaps, however, during the Hon. Member's sojourn at Malta, he had become a naval and military character, and had returned to this country to regulate both those services. --(A laugh.) Without wi-hing to detain the House on many other points, he (Sir 1). L. Evans) must remark, that during the last two or three weeks he had been invited to attend meetings which were about to be convened for the purpose calling upon her Majesty to dismiss her present min isters and to invite the Hon. Member for the West Riding to take the reins of government into his own hands.—(Hear, and laughter.) The opinions of the [lon. Member, therefore, seemed to be held of impor tance, and as such he (Sir D. L. Evans) had a perfect right to remark upon them. He was rejoiced, however, that her Majesty's government had not thought proper to yield to the p ro p os i t i ons o f the Hon. Member, who had nothing whatever to do with the naval and military de partments, but who had d ec l are d at many public meet ingsa that he k new b etter t h an the government what was necessary for th e elefenee of thi s emp i re, and moreover, y of that on that subj ec t h e was a greater authority than the illustrious chief w h o was at the head of one great and import an t b ranc h es of the public servitchec.)--se (Hear, hear.) The present question was simply as to the number of men; and all the details into which the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) had entered were wholly beside it. He (Sir D.,,'„e small in the statement made on a former evening oy.,ue ; lion. Baronet the Member for Ripon (Sir J. Grill . ' that the augmentation by France of her naval force matter of grave importance to this country, and Os' naval force of Great Britain ought to be equal to tb' any two other states. But it did so happen thst estimate for the naval force of France for the IT year was 52,000 men, including marines; while the this great commercial. colonial, and naval empire 43,000 men, being 9,000 under that of France.—( ll ' Mr. BRIGHT rose amidst strong manifestatio; impatience and loud cries of " Divide." The • Gentleman said that, in the few words he was abo' address to the Committee, he should not attempt tl his knowledge of foreign affairs in comparison with of !he Hon. Member who had just sat down, a nd was so fond of war as to be ready to fight, not in' for his own Queen, but for the sovereign of any' nation.—(oll, oh.) He (Mr. Bright) was not sure whether it would be judicious to adopt the opV, of the Hon. Member for Westminster even with to military affairs. The speech of the Hon. MO was not the most fortunate he had ever deliSt though it had received repeated cheers from that O f of the Ilouse which seldom so hailed the obsert t of the Hon. Member. He should leave that Hon, her to square his accounts with the constituent: Westminster—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh")--and (Mr. Bright) ventured to tell the Hon. Member, where one man in Westminster would 6 ): thise with his speech, at least ten men ' I " sympathise with the observations made by, lion. Friend the Member for the West Riding.--( 11 cries of " No, no.") The N o bl e L or d at t h e h ea d, ( Government had not been more fortunate in his eP e than had the Hon. Member for Westminster.—(Le s ' ter.) Every mark of approbation bestowed upon speech of the Noble Linal had emanated from the 11 against whom the Noble Lord had b een con tend almost ever since he entered upon office.—(Loud " No, no.") The Noble Lord had taunted the mon o turers of the north of England with coming to the 0 `; Office and asking for military assistan ce .—(No, ,o Even if true, that was a matter which h a d nothing,', with the present question. The Noble L or d was p e r bly aware that whenever soldiers were wanted in o north of England, it had been when th e pr i ce o f e , was such as to meet the vie w s o f H on . Gentlemen °l', site, and it was a proverb in Manchester that the o coats came when bread was dear. As to the ass ° necessity for troops here, he found a return showing present distribution of the forces. In Great Britain 1 1 were at present 39,000 within some odd men, and V t) land there were 26,296 .eaen, in addition to whom hwere not less than 12,000 arme d po li ce, who ha d trained and drilled, and were to all intents purposes a military force. It was clear then that O f men was the number o f th e f orce i n that part °, United Kingdom, a n d th a t b e i ng so h e was entiVe: take into considerati on th e var i ous c i rcumstances which it was assumed that this enormous force oughl i i, maintained. Befor e h o (M r. B r i ght) had becomes PI ber of the House the Noble Lord opposite (Lord:, Russell) had been the friend of Ireland, and had' tended manfully for those changes with respect t° : , country which he then felt necessary. He (Mr. IR) remembered the almost ferocious warfare which i taken place in that House on the measures proper: the Noble Lord for the improvement of the conditi', Ireland ; and yet what was now the political posit", that portion of the nation ? She had next to no ce:, tuency—only 105 Members w ere sent to represent this House, and wrongs and inequaliti es with resec her political institutions were not denied, but ot i contrary, were more or less admitted on both of the House. She had, moreover, a e b , establishment—(Question, qu e sti on )— w hi c h wou tu, last a single session but for the Church blishment in this country ; and she had a con' s l of things which our children would not b 0 possible. See what this army was for. Ireland's' dren had died in greater numbers from famine pestilence than the sons of England had ever perish' war.—(Hear, and question.) What was to be dinn remedy this intolerable and disgraceful state of th; Talk of a great empirel—That was no credit t 0 sovereign or state if it was not a contented evi l Better have only our o wn ti g h t li tt l e i s l an d , than to, it thousands and millions of discontented su bjec' (Hear, and question.) Gentlemen opposite might ls but they were laughing in their sleep; and some they would be awakened by s omet h ing he wou ld describe.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Out of doors it generally- believed that a privileged class had a preel nant influence in that House. Let them remember they had an enemy at their doors, and let the/ accordingly. It was high time to show a stroeger pathy for industry, and for the people at large. millions of taxation could not long be pati e ntly' ported, shift the burden as they might. They come to retrenchment when the taxes were refused; he undertook to say that the burden would not be 1/ , longer tolerated by the i n d ustr i ous c l asses.—(Hear4 Mr. NEWDEGATE rose amidst loud cries of vide," and " Oh, oh r' He begged to tell the Member for the West Riding that the Represents' of mixed constituencies knew the feeling of the V, trim's classes, and that f ee li ng was one of deep d' pointment with the free-trade measures. If any should soon need the protection of the State, it ' be the manufacturers and no t t h e agr i cultur a l terest.—(Oh, oh!) Mr. lIUME said he observed, that on the well -r' benches around him, he did not see six individuals had been present all the evening. The number of, proposed for the army was 113,821, of which 7' were left for the service of Great Britain and Irel/ adding to these pensioners, yeomanry, and rte dockyard men, there were 123,000 ready to be is t for this country, exclusive of the militia.—(Hear, With this state of things, and with the Noble . 11 promise for the n e xt y ear , th e H on . an d G a ll ant , ber for Westminster, in his simplicity, was peri l satisfied.—(Laughter.) For twenty years we had V had so many regular troops by 25,000.—(Hear.) hoped the Noble Lord would at least be satisfied 100,000 men. Sir D. L. EVANS said he had not expressed faction with this statement of things, but he had' that he was glad to hear that th e N o bl e L ord at the , of the Government meant to revise the whole spit° the taxation, which pressed so heavily on the ludo' ous classes. He would repeat, that the actual effe ( force for the whole of Great Britain was only 2 . 2 l and this number he believed to be totally inadequo r The Committee then divided, when there appear For the amendment Against it 293 Maj.)rity 2 54 Sir W. MOLES WORTH then moved that the nee/ of men be reduced by 5,449, being the number I . o' ing from India. The Committee then divided, when there appose For the amendment Against it Majority 246 201 The vote was then agreed to. 700,0001. was voted on account for defraying the penses of her Majesty's land forces at home and abr c The following votes were also agreed to:- 50,000/. for the charge of general officers not colonels of regiments. 200,0001. for half-pay and military allowances. 100,000/. for widows' pensions. 60,0001. for allowances on the compassionate list. 500,0001. for the out-pensioners of Chelsea Hospit 50,0001. for stationery and the Stationery -office. 50,000/. for the works of the new Houses of F' meat. 50,0001. for civil contingencies. The House then resumed, and the Chairman ree r progress. nf ADMINISTRATION OF OATHS (COURT - CHANCERY) BILL. This Bill went through Committee. ELECTION RECOGNIZANCES BILL. On the motion that the repo r t on t hi s Bill be ftlOt considered, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved, as an soil,' meet, that the report b e t a k en i nto further considero t that day six months. The House divided, when there appeared-- For the motion 92 Against it 73 Majority —l9 The report was then received, and the Bill ordered be engrossed. NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS. (.06 v On the motion of M r . STAFFORD, a Select -0 mittee was appoint e d t o i nqu i re i nto the prof)°, arrangements of the kitchen and eating and accoew; dation rooms f or th e M em b ers and officers of the 1 1 ° of Commons in th e N ew P a l ace of Westmineter J" to report whether any and what improvements cou/u., made in the present system of supplying refreshmeow WEST GLOUCESTERSHIRE PETITION. Mr. GREENE called the attention of the Hou,se ei the fact that the petiti on f rom certa i n e l ectors of Yiji Gloucestershire (ordered on 29th i ns t. to b e printe", contained a paragraph referring to what had taken O p in that House, and he therefore moved that the order the printing of the petition be discharged. Mr. G. BERKELEY suggested instead the °raise ° simply of the objectionable words. The motion for discharging the order was, howeit agreed to, Mr. G. BERKE LEY intimating that would have the objectionable passage struck out, 60 then again print the petition so amended. The House adjourned at Twenty minutes to Two. BIRTHS. On the 28th ult., at the Vicarage, Eliag, Hants, the 18 i : of the Roy. IV. P arr Philli ps, R ector of Woodford, EeC of a son. On the 29th ult., at Ayerhana Rectory, Nortkamptonsbii 4 Mrs. Charles Sargeaunt, of a daughter. On the 29th alt., in Upper Hyde- park-street, the !cif Western Wood, Esq., of a daughter. On the 30th ult., at Camberwell, the wife of the fle l Daniel Moore, of a son. On the 30th ult., at Castle Rising Rectory, the wife of Rev. Charles W. Bagut, of a son. On the 30th ult., at Lewisham, Mrs. John Penn, of a soil', MARRIED. On the 23d ult., at Emanuel Church, Camberwell, Lient r nant-Colonel Charles R. W. Lane, C. 8., Bengal Native 14 fantry, to Maria, daughter of the late Captain Joh n Gibb Royal Cork City Regiment, and of Ballinora, Cork. ( DIED. • On the 25th u lt., a t St o k e , near Devonport, L ie utenant C' A. Yoßand, R.N., aged 42. On the 28th ult., at Clifton, Bristol, Colonel EdinB o4 Hardy, late of the H. E. I. C.'s Bombay Artillery. On the 29th ult., in Chester-square, the Hos. Mrs. Walte t W rotteslev. London: Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, No. 112, St ran d , P r i nter, at The Sun O ffi ce, No. 111, e l Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the couttY 11iddlesez, Saturday, April 1, IE4B.