The Sun. — London, England, 1848-04-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAIVIEIiT. , was to obtain the liber a ti on o f t h ree Br i t i sh su bj ects 'HO US ./-2 OF L , ' R DS , Ap ril 7. who hid be e n t: t k ot p rrsow rs. . _ _ . The LoaD Csamcr.t.Loa t.,:,01: his seat on the wool- . MEXICO. t . Mr. IiIiQUII ,I Rl' a,k-,1 w h e th er h er M a j es t y ' s - . , iek at Fire ~ e loek Goverittmet t -,. .ati taken measures to s: cure the right* of Tit, Earl of ERNI; presented petitions from . the phy- _ ti!•itish . bondholders in Mtaico, if: the event t,t a cessirrn ~,i .o l egeons vf Duugarvan, complaining of the Unitt-d S ta t es , a:l' a 4 under which rriedical men 'aitivurcd in cot g e t- cif teuravry to the • •S. The 1 4 '''V .1 A " • f f '• ;- '+' ; 1 ' duties. Noble E- rl creditors * ,,, .•111 Lut be at all aff Lord PALMS}IST( iN said tn , it the clai!?:s of f..,reign - -"re:elk:Lent:A :p 5 ,::::.,,,::•.L4 L.. 2: , :tt,tant •: - .4bitatts* , .eted by the aliehatiun : : :i i, F i' sn i s kett, in Ireland, against the national system of vt any part of the territory of Mexico, arid that such a education in Ireland. step could not at all affect the claims 01 the creditors The Bishop of EXETER presented petitions from Athlone in favour of protection for Scriptural education; also petitions against denunciations from the attar; and petitions from societies of Odd Fellows praying to be placed upon the same footing as friendly societies. Lord HATHERTON presented similar petitions. The Noble Lord trusted that the Government would pay some attention to these petitions, as the members of these lodges were most valuable members of the com munity. Lord CAMPBELL presented similar petitions. The Marquis of SLIGO presented a petition from the grand jury of the county of Mayo, praying loran altera tion in the poor-laws, anu for the empoiyment of able• bodied paupers in the cultivation of laud. The Bish, p of WINCHESTER presented petitions from Ventnor in the Isle of Wight against the bull In cana Domini. PRINCIPAL CLERK. The LORD CHANCELLOR informed their Lord ships that her Majesty had been graciously pleased, by letters psitent, to appoint John Gtorge thaw Lefevre, Esq., to the ()the , . of Principal Clerk Assistant of the arliarnent, in the room tit Benjamin Currey, Lsq , dee, aced. STAMP DUTIES AS.SP.IILATIO.N. The Stamp Dudes Assindlatiuu Bill was read a thin time and passed. PROPERTY-TAX BILL. This Bill went through Committe-. BAIL FOR MANSLAUGHTER BILL. Lord DENMAN moved the second reading of the Bail fur Manslaughter Bill, the object of which was to give the coroner power to take bail in certain cases of manslaughter. After some observations from the Earl of ELLEN BOROUGH, the Bill was read a second titne and ordored to be committed. UNNECESSARY ACTIONS PREVENTION BILL. Lord DE ,N MAN moved the second reading of the unnecessary Actions Prevention Bill. Lord CAMPBELL supported the second reading of the Bill. The Bill was then read a second time and ordered to be dommi , ted. .dr. J. G. S. LEFEvRE took his seat at th table as the Principal Clerk Assistant of the Parliament. .Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE. OF CO.I AtUiN S. April 7. The SPEAICi,R took the Cnair to-day st bef , Ire Four o'ei,,ek The Soucrron GENERAL (Nlr. John R. ,- Anilly) Look the oaths ai,d his seat on being re-elected for i)evon port. The Hon. and Learned Member was introdu , ed by Mr: Hayter, the Judge Advocate, and Mr. Tufuell. The reports on the following Bills were Waller con sidered and agreed to: — Clifton Bridge Bill_ Leicestershire Lunatic Asylum Bill. Magdalen Huspitsi Act Amendment Bill. Several petitions were presented praying for the re mission of the sentence on Frost, Wiliams, and Jones. Mr. R. DUNCAN presented a petition from Caith ness, praying for an alteration of the law with respect to the importation of British spirits. The Honourable dember also presented a petition in lavour of the Diplomatic Relations with Rome Bill. BODMIN ELECTION. upt,n the public revenue of the country. BEL GIUM. Mr. URQUHART wished to know whether her Ma j esty's Government had entered into guarantee of the Crown of Belgium, or in any way have compromised themselves in engagements to maintain, in consequence of recent events on the Continent, the existing state of things? Lord PALMERSTON said that the Government had ' entered into no new treaties upon the subject of the relations of any of the Continental. Powers.'the House was in possession of the treaties of 1831 and 1839, and the subject of those treaties between France, Aus tria. Russia, Prussia, and Great Britain, with respect to Belgium, were kno.vn to those who were acquainted with those treaties.—(Laughter.) GOVERNMENT PROCLAMATION. Mr. BRIGHT said—l wish, Sir, to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary fur the Home Department with respect to the proclamation touching a meeting to be held on Monday next, at Kennington cemmen.—(Cries of "Oh, oh.") I wish to know whether the notice is meant to refer to both the meeting and the procession, er only to the precession; anti I ask it hecause some very inte,ligent persene whim I have conversed with have diffeted in opinion upon that subject, and the newspapers do nut agree in the interpretation they put . , upon it, and I am afraid that some difficulty may arise upon the subject. It is a very different thing to attend a public meeting, for the purpose of petitioning this House, and to meet in large numbers to pass through the streets. There may be some sort of a collision if this subject is not clearly understood, which every Hon. Member in the House would, I am sure, deeply deplore. Sir G. GREY—The Government, Sir, have endea voured, in the notice which they have publicly issued, to state what the common law and statute law of this country was with respect to assemblages, for whatever purpose, attended with circumstances calculated to strike terror and alarm into the minds of her Majesty's loyal arid peaceable subjects, and they also point-d out what under particular circumstances, the state of the law w es,, as applicable to tumultuous assemblages, for the purpee. ef eccompenying petition- for presentation to crime Houses of Parliament, by excessive numbers of peep i• The Hon. Member now ask-, me if I &Indent:Awl h rightly, if a meeting convened to as)ewhi• on Kennington-courmon, separately and in dependent of the proposed procession, would bt legal or not. In answer to that I would state that the legality or illegality of the meeting would depend en tirely upon the circumstances under which that as sembly may be brought together.—(Hear, hear.) Any meeting held for a purpose, accompanied with circuin stances such as I have before altuded to, calcu lated to inspire terror and alarm—just terror and alarm in the minds of her Majesty's loyal and peaceable subjects—l apprehend to be against the corn mon law of the country. If a meeting is held, convened to be held, for the express purpose of forming, at the time of such meeting, a procession for the purpose of proceeding, contrary to the sta tute law, to either Houses of Parliament. to accompany the presentation of a petition in excessive numbers, then such meeting identified with, and forming part of the procession, will come within the provisions if the statute law of the country.—tea illegalityrhear of any ' .)ihe question, therefore, of the legality or meeting must depend upon the circumstances of the case. I cannot, therefore, answer distinctly if any meeting called for a particular purpose, whether such a meeting would er weuld not come within the provisions of the Act. The House will allow me to state what I believe it is desirable fur the House to know, viz., the dictum ''of Lord Mansfieid with respect to the law as applicable to this subject. In his summing up to the jury, he says, " a doubt has been thrown out from the bar as to whether it is lawful to attend the presentation of ape tition to Parliament by more than ten persons." I will now proceed to read to the House a report of the trial of the bishops in 1688, and this report would put Honourable Gentlemen in possession of what really was 'he law of the Constitution upon this subject. Jude.. Power, in this report, is represented to have stated that the people bad tke right to assemble in multitudes for the petitioning Parliament or the Sovereign, but it was decidedly illegal fur tumultuous assemblies to accompanying these petitions for presentation.—e Hear, hear) I contend, therefore, that the course which her Majesty's Government has taken in this matter is strictly constitutional. They have no wish to prevent the people from exercising their just right of meeting to petition, but they are bound to interfere when it is proposed to weer fee the purpose f intringine the law.—(Hear.) In answer to a question teem Lord GROSVENOR, Sir GEORteE eaREY said the only notice he had received id the meeting he (edit cted from the published anneuneetnent of the Chartist body themselves, ant ;netted by an individuel who represented hirr•elt to b. the se , -rotary. It was anneuneed in that notice, tha. the Object of the peries who issued it was for the purpose assembling the people to the number, it was satd, o. eteo,ooo, hitt with regard to that he expressed no opinion —(Cherre)— ie order to make a great demonstration t physic s ! force in favour of a particular queetion, and ti, aec >mean): a certain petition to the door i.t the House, Mr. O'CONNOR—WiII the Righ! Hen. Berenetal:oe :tee to ask him whether he has received a deputation to day from the uerties wi‘issu• d the melee on tne subject? Sir G. GREY said three individuals, who represented themselves to be members of the National Ctinveetian, attended at the Home-office to-day, and saw the Under- Secretary of State t e r h e Ho m o paranent, in cwt presence of the Attorney-General; but he, himself, was not able to he present. He had, however, received a h tter from these three persons, which, with the uermission of the House, he would teail.—(Hear, hear.) The letter was dated—" Home cffiee, half-past two o'clock P.M.—Sir: We, the undersigned delegates ap pointed by the Natianal Convention, beg to inform you that the National Convention never had any design of calling an armed assemblage together for the purpose of forming - an armed pi °cession, and we can assure you that the National Convention is most anxious for the preservation of the public peace and the protection of pri vate property. We, therefore, avail ourselves of this upper tuuity of informing you that the procession will take plate on Monday next, and in the event of any disturbance taking place, be assured it will not be caused by those who juin in the procession. We are, sec-, G. W. M. Reynolds. E Clarke, and J. Wilkinson."—(Oh, oh.) Sir R. H. INGLIS—I wish to ask the Right Hon. Bart. whether, through his Under Secretary, he conde scended to receive three individual, as the repre sentatives of a National Cenventiun sitting in London?— (Cries of " Oh, 40") Sir, the House may cry "Oh, oh !" but I respectfully iesist that I have a right to ask the question. Does the Right lion. Baronet not recognise the existence of a National Convention sitting in London by condescending to receive a letter from three of its representatives? Sir GEORGE GREY—The answer I have to give the Hen. Baronet is, that the three gentlemen who at tended the Home office to-day were not reccgnised as delegates of the National Convention.—(Cheers.) It was distiectly stated to them that they were not re ceived as delegates of the National Convention, but as Corning from a meeting held at a certain house, and in that character only they were received.—(Cheers.) Mr. WAKLEY wished to put a question to the Right honourable Baronet in connexion with this subject. twhoa Durin g utldthvisr t , h ,mb e a,z l is a yi a n t gbe mo nt h it had been publicly stated Gentleman might w 3c o oor uld ,oo“ t o a o ke h, place, oh,, and that there thereant 3=o 300 000 presene . (Oh, oh.) . Hen. feltPeopthleat in nth b e ut he believed y this wer c e oun n ty ,t , '..)ces represe n t e d i n that Reuse —(Cheers.) sionwB in l , I; ai wa t n h t a e t d th t knew h ew i t was, if this pr: e peepl e .did not receive information from the Go, on ustihre G. b u j 7: E b y - d (~Cnnply b, h cause he as Secretary of Sta-e del lint receive the info' tud.• Lion ref, reed to stated by t ii e ,4! tl p " l o Lm e M e i e n in t im b t ' e n r e . g ( t rn l C , t i : i t h e r a e u r t: • st ) i e'l' h eting l 1 t w h " ( l- 1 1 theeepriisls, issuing the , fi t r h.. t u a ffi n t r . i i ( a ju l n n c o e t rn ic , e n h t he troecewivnteideenolniet was i. alr A ea f d te y r al m lu u d c e h d. c 7 futit r i ' n, he s:u r t . l ) loud cries• of " Order, order," " Chair, ohair," gralentaotuwtas true it was TheeSPEAKER said, it the Hon. Gentleman rose tput aruither question h e w as qu i te i n order, but if h‘: rose to d.-hate the subject he was out of order.--:-(H ear Mr.. W AKLEY—Then I move th a t t hi s House do) now adjeuril—(Laughter)—in order -- that there may be a question before the House.—(llear, hear,) The Right Ben. Gentlemen said_ teat he had a better knowledge on this subject thane the Government possessed. He could p ,sn ivels , that he attended no m e et ing w h atever petition, and he had no direct coat orsiFthttie the subject of h eon with t t ho e se persons who called themselves the National Convention in relation to it. He derived his information on the s l u i b o j. n et:t m fre e e m na be a r n o e t we tt pelp t e u r w ou h s ic e. h w i t o informetioe, and he could--not oo other source' • e the property of an help thinking that tho peuple had been unjustly treated in being ellured---, • .111-- WAKLEY—In being allured into the supposition ' •rd - INGESTRE- - I r eis e to order. : , tht meeting would not be interfered with, by reason of tele Government not giving any earlier an ntuncetnent that they would suppress the meeting on Account of its illeg ilia, Although such meeting had beet] e a nneeunceilfor sonee weeks. He regretted such conduct, erY• Fe ia eU m e l e it was lik e ly to b e at t en d e d with great public cai ty. st ioonlitsGhw.atd;nowo'CirieONNOß seconded the motion. The per cession wouldg the Right lion. Eto;cerned in getting up this demonstra tion nature, suppose that their meeting and pro eerfered with, because in 15143, when Baronet oao was in office, a procession of a sca:olnan:a.ogre:thha:dirni,tlioltor :ejects, and announced in the Refeem Bill from-uroo accurnpanied by 100,000tne. 1 50000 persons place. At the time of the your of the Dorchester labourers- filed in pro saw the procession of In 1833 a petition, was presented in ta unr.ers; and a short time since n precede The s natural,vs that h c a o t n ctlhue they 3ioll to be drawn from these sitil°rL Mr. HAMILTON brought up the report of the Select Committee appointed to try the validity of the election for the borough of Budmin, reporting that Mr. Wyld and Mr. Lacy were duly elected burger es to serve in the pre,tent Parliament fur the oorough of Bodrrin. Mr. COVVAN presented a petition against the B 11; for establishing diplomatic rdstions witu the Court of Be me. Mr. J. O'CONNELL presented a petitirin from the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland, in favour of the Kaman Catholic Relief Bill. NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr. CO WAN gave notice that, on Wednesday next, he should move for leave to bring in a Btll to remove differenc.'s relating to churches and chapels in Sc,,tlar:d. EXPULSION OF ENGLISH WORKMEN FROM FRANCE. Sir DE: LACY EITANTse.id, as he understood the workmen who had been expelled from France were willing to emigr a t e to some of our colonies if an oppo r t unity was a ff or d e d of their doing so by the Government, he wished to know whether the . Government w ere di spose d to a ff or d th e m any aid for this purpose, by which they might be enabled to extri cate themselves from the diffieuities in which they had then been placed; and further whether the Government was disposed to endeavour to obtain some reparation from the Governmeut of France for the losses these work-people had sustained? Mr. IIAWES replied that the moment represen tations were made to the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Department, that large numbers of English workmen were about to leave France, and that they had expressed a disposition to emigrate, the Government carefully considered the matte) with a view to see it ,ny measure could be adopted by which their wishes might be carrion into effect. Unfortunately these workmen were not the class of persons who, according to the Act of Parliarne,e,E. e. , uiti be conveyed to any ut the colonies out of the lurid. placed at the elispos:.l of - the Cole.c.ial_office for the purpose 4* pre'mottiv, einigra;ion, as they w.re chiefly applicable tie tti• transmission ot ogriculioral la bowers. Owing. however, t., the benevolent manlier in which subscriptions Pad been received Lk, sill 111 the relief o these persons, he h.. , i no doubt that their desire could be accom,lished; indeed he migh: am ate that with the aid of the Inoue ) coileeLal, md the aid tile Guveriiment, wig-,t be enabled to eff,rd, they would be enabled to einigrate.—(Hear, bear ) Lord MAHON inquired under what authority the funds were solely devoted to the emigration of agricul tural labourers? Mr. HAW ES replied that many year,: ago an ,Act was pass,•d called the 6. Land elatises Act," which stated that the tunds voted by ParliAluent should oi.ly be made applicable• to the conveiance of agricultural emigrants. Mr. GROGAN said, as great numbers Of the work men had found their way to Dublin, and other parts of Ireland, he wished to express a hope that the aid men tioned might be extended to them. He wished to know what would be the cost of the conveyance of each? Mr. HA WES was unable to give a reply off hand; hut, if the Hon. Gentleman would ask the question on day, he should be in a ciaidit,on to reply to it. Sir DE LACY EVANS said the Lion. Gentleman had not replied to his question with respect to the Go. vernment seeking reparation from the Government of France. Mr. EIAWES replied that he would rather not answer the question. He would rather it should be asked of others. ORDNANCE MAPS. In reply to Mr Hume, Colonel ANSON stated that these maps in the cours e of two months would be reduced to 2s. a sheet, and 61. per quarter sheet. MANUFACTI.;..E OF ES. Mr. J. O'CONN UL inquired if the PIK attention of the Hon. Baronet had been called to a statement in the newspapers, that an agent of the Government had been discovered to have been concerned in the manufacture of pikes? Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the only statement he had seen was in the newspapers. JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES' BILL. Mr. CARDWELL wished to know whethe r it was the intention of the Government to proceed to-night with the Joint-Stock Companies' Bill ? Mr. M. GIBSON said that if an occasion offered he should most certainly bring on the measure this evening. FINANCE A CCOUN rs. Mr. FIUME wished to know why it was that the finance accounts had not t eat laid upon the table by the 28th of March, as required by Act of Parliament ? Mr. PARKER said that he hoped they would be ready in a few days. Some delay had unavoidably occurred in their preparation. COURSE OF PIZOCEEDI.NG THE NA- rE doN. Mr. :I- DRUMMOND wishe i to know what course the kiwi. Ni,mber for Nottir.gham intended to pursue with respect to the presentation of the petition whico it was taiderst-orl he was to bring wr war:. ;e did out believe th...tt a single hu man being in that House would refuse to acc,d, 0 the r,ception of the petttb.n. hut what he wished to know was i.t what way the 11. n. Member of to bring t ho: su bj ect n,.t.,re the considerati-n of the thaw. --" W U Aoxioili -a) have tile (natter iii •y Lind, rs 000, in "ler that he rei ?NC •.i . ioself know what course to ai t op t u Pott the s u bj ect !' . • gi lir i ; t' O'CONNOR said that on Monday last he hui lip:: ,1:?" of his intention to found a spvcifie moti"n atnenot een l u u b ieets which he itaCtided to move as an C. , rnuaitte e it the order of the day tor going tutu there was no or t r PtY• He now f ou nd, however, that night, and nle,s". Committee of Supply fur that hue to hrin g on the the Government would . allow state what tatur,e h . e lu s e h 6 t tl ' un un Monday, he could not asked Ifiv, ind,,tlg, Ave. , t ta .: e ull pursue. He bad seldoca . aquae upon any sub;.-ct, but to the pikts . Ant etts e .v." some ruilliotifttoi_tn e peo. 1 .-:'"Port an „ ‘, a. , .' attached by v ii, ge that he t f t i k t t , • h - j a il . ' k'l%ll`sked therefore es a prtIII - on Monday nextAfit he und lv' t . - " iv i ,,A'ritig on the' subject self, he should not Oeqtf, er '''''''' l Avia. . Irahe nr „.. se .t. Y. thAt for han great I.ngtb. ' ~, " 4 el chs a a cm , L . y Lord J. ItUSSELL—I iint,-1 k 7,4 ,11511 4a- that any petition so nunato, p i tr.e very intwilliiireit, :•firklge4ll(titl.ear, hear.) meet with Gentleman sisys this will' . byisi.sYhitilitin°'' " the irith. every consideration from the I do not thihk, however, that it will 'ft advi sM s e, both because other Bills are tixed'for that. reasons, that I should give up the iti u dfik 44.14. for Considering the importance tOq'i)l',,lTitid:rs ..liiiii' :A numbers the which is to_ be presented a , ...fi nety . . aught Hon. MenifOr rebA4.F4.... that every one e to receive the '6,(49T+Ntion of the House, I shall be : - •• ready to 5004 tb. the Hon. Gentleman bringin g fo r .. ward his motion on Friday n e xt.—(H ear, hear.) - Mr. F. O'COSNOIt expressed his thanks to the Noble ~,, Lord for giving him so early a d a y. ,-, RIVER ST. JUAN. In ansrver to a qu stion put by Mr. HUME, Lord PALMERSI'ON said that the expedition of the British ships. of-war to the Newcuarg.ha Suites in Central America had been undertaken without any specific orders from the Government. The object of it fChartista would not be pr., venter!, and it was taking thsm by surprise to prevent ,fo.in now at the eleventh hoar. iI It w -.s not their int- tit ii t. , Coln. , to the d or of :tie House ot Coitus:ohs, bat to tn:ls.; over I,Vestinitister-bridge. Ail :he infhence that h , e 'old exert iviiul-i be etup:oyed C' pi eserve the peace. lie aole , nnly declared his con viction that it the p- ople ha , l bet u told lit Liu] , that the meeting w.turd b., s oppres,ed they would not assem ble, but ines it was 0,0 late, and many of them could not be prevented coming. He recollected the time wiiea without ew representation who were w rnowin_; tyranny, office tdnecnlyf and are et :gt dthattat to sxatiin be resisted; and it was hard that the schoolmasters should now coerce and flog their pupils for learning too well the instruction which they themselves had given.— (Hear, hear.) lie would not shrink from the responsi bility thrown upon him. lie was not the man to sneak out of his determination. It was his intention to attend the meeting—to come down to Westminster with the procession. It was not for the Noble Lord and the Right lion. Gentleman the Member 'for Harwich (Sir J. C. Hobhouse), from whom they hsti learned his his On, to come down at the eleventh hour, when every preparation was made for this meeting, arid say that they intended to suppress it. He believed in his soul and conscience that those who were to take part in that meeting had no more notion of disturbing the public peace than he had—(Laughter)—and he had no notion of disturbing it.—(llear, hear.) lie had been told by the lion. Alderman below him that he would be the first to be shot on Monday if he came to the procession. However that might be, he should hold it his duty to be with the people, and to take the lion's share ot the ,langer.—( Hear, hear.) rue Right Hon. Baronet had no right to presume that those who gut up this demon -oration—and he was: not one of them—did7 o welsh oh.) Sir view of cotninitting au in,i-action of the peae,..... Sir J. GRAHAM sail th it the Honourable Gentle :llan nod truly said that precedent had a gr..st deal to do with the present question. But whit hats taken place in 1543, when lie wa- Secretary :or the Hume Depaitment, 'offered in two points ft in the present case. In tile first place, the petition of 1843 did not emanate frous a meet ing publicly convened in the nsighbourhood of the me tropolis, and under the circumstances which the Right lionourabie Gentleman opposite said would attend the meeting to be held on Monday next. The petition of 1843 was brought from a private house, and not from a public meeting. Mr. O'CONNOR—It was brought from Lincoln's Inn fields. Sir J. GRALIAM said he was speaking from recol lection; but besides, there was no notice previously given that a procession would come to this House from the place where the meeting was held. If that procession vas attended with circumstances like the present he cer ainly should have failed in his duty—being responsible -or the peace of the metropolis—it he had consented to dlow a meeting to be held such as that of which notice was given tor Monday, and which the Right Honourable ;:entletr.an d , dared 10 ly, ille..al its its character. He sl not think such a ins• ring ought to be could , nanced, Mr. HOUSMAN tho,ig the Hoes-- wiinfd ~,e s i n e n siiist anti u gellerolls manner it they did n 4 give very assis,auce to those who were rispoilsitile fir tie -,-,sace of the country on the pressut occasion. The ) should form their opinion of the propriety of the meet ing from its character and not from the objects to be discussed or the numbers who attended it. It could n. , t le doubted that great apprehensions were entertained !rum this meeting, and for the sake of those whe enter ained those apprehensions, and for the preservation of he public peace, he was prepared to place implicit con fidence in the Government.—(Hear.) Mr. Alderman TLIOMI'SON said he was glad that he had given way to the Honourable Gentleman who had just spoken, because he believed his sentiments were chose of every Member of that House.—(Hear, hear, and N'o, no.) He was not the person who said that if the Honourable Member for Nottingham appeared in the procession certain consequences would folloW.-(Litugh ter.) But he was surprised that the Hon. Gentlethan hould say that he had no part in getting up the pro :!ession which was to take place on Monday next. lie begged to ask the Hon. Nlendaer for Nottingham, wheth , r he hail not attended a meeting in a certain %dress house in Cripplegate,iand whether he had not made use of the following langiwe there ?—(Hear, hear, and Ties of " Read, read.") The Hon. Gentleman here read t report of a speech alleged to have been delivered by the [lon. Member for Nottingham, in which he said that :here VIM no use in petitioning the House of Commons any longer; that they must do what America had done, 'hake off the yoke. It was better to die by the sword than live in slavery. 'The people of Ireland would not he sstisfied with repeal, hut would have a republic. He implored of them to remember the 10th of April, and -poke of it as a glorious day. His moral force would put down physical force. They must do away with all titles as they did in France, and put down royalty, as too ex pensive to the country. That was the report of the !lon. Gentleman's speech, which had been put into his hands by a respectable solicitor, and it formed a great contrast to the larguage which the Hon. Gentleman used in that House.—(Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNOR declared solemnly- that the report which the House had just heard was not what he had said. Ile never was a Republican. And he wrote article after article against that form of government. So help him God he never mentioned a word about doing away with titles. He bad before declared in that House , hat he was not for a repeal of the union, but for aepara ti n. He (lid not think be said a word about France. He would produce witnesses to show that he had no:. used he language imputed to him, and he could not have lone SO b , Cause the sentiments it contained wt re not his. It such opinions as those referred to by the lion. Mem ber had been entertained by him, he should not have hesitated to av,,w them in that place, but the fact was 'here was not Inc scimi , la of truth in the statement, Filet he had made the speech which had been read to the Rouse. 1 Mr. HUME said that it was of the utmost import enc. ter the House not to allow its atteritien tai be di ierted towards what t,ok place at meetings held out of leers, fur they were all aware how liable suede proceed e•gs were to misrepresentation, and how often they had been distorted to suit pertieuiar purposes when ..cession required, The Hon. Member for Westmoreland, before made such a statement as that which he had just I.me, sheult have obtained a report of the speech attri buted to the Hun. Member for Nottingham from a short. -and writer. He did not deny that speeches had been ibeivered at pablic m etings calculated to create greet inxi,ty, and urging the people to ceramic acts of vi ;race; but such r• ports as that of the Honeurabl- Alderman eueht to be received with great caution. They were all aware of the frequent resorts which had , eeti had to spies by the Government authorities, who were as capable now as they had proved themselves for inerty to be, poisoning the minds of the people and of leading them astray. He recollected having himself arrested a spy who had gone to create disaffection in the manufacturing districts, and who carried wi h him for that put pese a number of seditious bills, with the view of placardteg them about those towns. The Ii in Nlember for Lambeth went with him in order to seize this man ; but Lord Sidrnouth dismissed him, instead of ordering him to he detained and called to account for his conduct. He was only the third spy he had been accessory to taking. —(A laugh.) He regretted to see the House treatirg the subject with hilarity. That showed they were ignorant of what was going on in the country. There had been a time when the Ministers of the Crowe had not hesitated to employ spies, who first seduced the people into acts of violence, and then be trayed their dupes to the gallows. The employment of those spies, and the printing of the placards which they carried about with them, were distinctly traced to the Go vernment. When they saw men out of work and starv ing in the streets, could it be otherwise than abhorrent to know that the Government spies were poisoning their minds and inciting them to commit acts of violence?-- (Oh.) He was speaking of what had formerly taken plaee, not of the co , duct of the present Ministers. If he had not confidence in them ho would not sit where he did; he would move to the other side, for he should net think it safe to he eo near them it he thought they did not despise such conduct. If so great a falsehood had been put ott upon the lion Alderman as that which he hail read for the speech of the Eel. Member for Nottingham, there ought, fur the satisfaction of the House and the country, to be some examination in stituted into the circumstances. At all events Members ought to be more guarded in receiving and repeating such statements. The Government ought in particular to be very reserved in acting upon Ray information save that which they procured upon affidavit. Sir I). L. EVANS had never yet been found on the side of those who would restrict the public meetings of the people, but he was bound to say on the pert of his constituents, the inhabitants of Westminster, that there .vere circumstances which rendered the contemplated procession of .slonday a p culiar case. For 18 years he had c , iuntenaticed many public processions and meetings, but there were some peculiarities which deserved mention, ;tamely, that it was only a short ti ..e ago that two meet mg. hail been held, both of a most contemptible charac ter, and particularly so as compared with the proposed meeting, but still it was his duty to state that, notwith standing that contempt, those meetings had created con. siderable alarm.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the House that net only had there been great alarm created at those comparatively small meetings, but also that numbers of his constituents had suffered materially in their husiness.—(Hear, hear.) l'heretore, he conceived it to be his duty to entreat the Government to have some regard for his own immediate constituents, and if the Hon. Member for Nottingham persisted in his present detertninatien, he begged to inform him that it was very much to be wished he would direct his columns else where than into Westminster. Fur even if there were 110 disturber:cc.. there would be a great interruption to business, occasioning farther loss to tradesmen, who were not able to sustain their present adverse eircute atances. lie coat:erred with . the Hon. Member for Cockermou,h, that the circumstances of the times, both .towestie anti foreign, were unprecedented. and that the hour W 44 coins when every in .n—every boners man - (Cheers)—. very man not destitute of courage and sin cerity, and more especially every lineral man, Was bound to declare neat side he e,as prepared to take. In that spirit he was prepared to state that he gave his willing assent to the measures adopted by the Government. Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that the lion. Member for Nottingham had just declared that he had never joined a society for repeal, but had been a member of an association for effecting a separation between Ireland and England. lie begged to ask the Hon. Member how it was that he had formerly been enrolled as a repealer, and accepted by the society as such, and in that capacity alone ? He hoped that those of his unhappy country men who had been led away by the Hon. Member, and particularly o thosenonmonda who y,id ck t n a t k e e rnpl iva a r td j warning g eing the fro in mhisde po e r la- - cession of that eight, and determine to act as their kits men in Ireland had done, namely, not to have anything to do with the Hen. Member.—(Cheers.) Mr. F. O'CONNOR rose to correct a mistake com etppusite. He never did e m n i r t o te l d hi b m y hsetlfe io' as l ani n en3 Mm b e er br o e fa Repeal As.loolation._ He became a member o - a soehty or e hick the lar Mr 1). O'Connell was e. prominent meinlier. end the erigateinent Pe entered into was that he would iune. ditto ly provide himself wet, a musket en:l x keepseee. Lent JOHN RUSSELL, would ab,tain froze all ellu• sion to the Ileneurabit sleeiher ter Nottinghare'e speeches and Preeeethries cue it that House, and wiedil confine what he hail say to those ebservatione which the lion. Member hail uttered in his place there. He now 'wormed the House test it wee' lea the intention the procession to coma in a body to the doors or the Henze. But the Gevertiment and the House would find, on referring to the printed declaration, that such an intention was therein announced, and that printed document was signed by three of the Chartist leaders. Nevertheless, the Hon. Member now asserted that ouch a proceeding was not intended. What then would have been the effect, if, as the Hon. Nfember for Finsbury bad urged, the Government had taken steps to prevent the procession some weeks ago? Would it not have been immediately said that tie Ministers had acted prema !urely, for they had nothing to go upon, and the Hon. Member's present declaration would be referred to as a proof that there was no :ntention to approach the House ' of Commons in vast numbers? With respect to the cha racter of the intended procession, he must firstobserve that every case of that kind depended on itself alone. He Was ready to admit that there were occasions when it was not necessary to retort to the strict letter of the law in regard to public ineteings and processions. But there were times when such proceedings produced a most dis quieting effect, and the only question for the House and the Government to consider was, whether the present case should be referred to the former ur the latter cats. ery. Why, the Hon. Member himself must be aware the guilty hopes anti designs which had been raised aid created by the occasion of the intended meeting. The Honourable Member had told the House that he had been reprobated at the meetings which he attended elsewhere --reprobated for what ?—for improper con duct. F. expresaing hie attachment to royalty and its institutions.—(Hear, hear.) After such avowal, perhaps the Honourable Member would permit him (Lord John Russell) ;o offer him some friendly ad vice.—(Hear.) He had told the House that he saw no reason why the procession projected for Monday should not be allowed to take place in the same manner that former processions had been permitted to have e ff e ct. The Government, however, looking at the cir cumstances of the times and the occasion, had consulted the Crown lawyers, having also regard to the declare tions uttered and printed by the parties promoting the procession and meeting. They then thought it their duty to inform all persons that the meeting was illegal, and to warn them against attending the procession. Had there not, he asked, been a sufficient warning given? Were not three days a suffieient period of time for the persons promoting the fleeting to reconsider and alter their decision? Those persons might hare thought that the proposed meeting was not illegal--that there were precedents for it, and that it would be permitted. Tl.e). row IsOew that the Gewernment had declared it to be and that it had. excited a gre , .t deal 111 t,.rroi and ilaret in the meads of peaceable- persons. Was i not. the (hits - of the Hue, elt inner for Nottingham, as did nu shi,re the sentiment; of these person. who called for a republic, to dissuade the promoters of the meeting from holding it? Was it not his duty to show them an example by publicly avowing his determination not to join it? Could he not state to them with truth that their petition would be respectfully received, anti that every opportunity would be uff. , rded for a fair dis cussion of what was styled the People's Charter? Let it be hoped that the Hon. Member would not carry out the determination which he had expressed, but that he would advise those who looked up to him as their guide not to persevere in their projected attempt to overawe the deliberations of the Parliament by au illegal assem blage and procession.—(lleac.) Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL merely rose to say that the Hon. Member's statement respecting a musket and a knapsack was wholly without foundation. The society to which he referred was put down by an Act of Parlia ment passed in 1831. It was formed upon principles distinftly opposed to the separation of Ireland from England, and its views were peaceable, and not those which a musket and knapsack would suggest. But perhaps what he said was quite unnecessary, as the House sites probably already aware that the Hon. Mem ber's statements were often compounded more from hii imagination than from facts. Sir H. PEEL said, that if he rose on the present oc casion to say a word, his doing so was caused by the lion. Member for Nottingham having mixed up his name in the discussion, by stating that the conduct of the Government, in 1843, offered a precedent which ought to be the guide of the Government on the present occasion. He recollected no act of the Government of 1843 which ought to fetter the discretion of her Ma jesty's Ministers. He knew it had been said that there were occasions in former years when processions of the people were allowed to approach the House of Commons; but that was only by indulgence of the Executive Government. The Spitalfields weavers had been per mitted to follow that course. But under the present circumstances the numbers which it was expected would constitute the projected procession were too great to be permitted to take that proceeding. He thought the Government had acted prudently in not having interfered sooner. He thought it would have been said, as the Noble Lord had intimated, that there was no intention to violate the law. The present was the time when the Government might properly express its intentions ; and, with reference to the precedent said to have been established in 1843, he must say that, consi dering the circumstances of the times, as well foreign as demestic, arid taking also into regard the state of the public mind at present, if 100,000 people were permitted to parade the streets, it was impossible to foresee the consequences, and, in his opinion, the Government had acted rightly in taking the course they had done. For it must be remembered that considerations of humanity alone ought to have prompted theta to impose the restrictions on the people which they had done, and if they had not taken those precautions those who now denounced their' for having done so would be the very first vehemently to impeach them ; and, in that case, he admitted with much more reason than they now had done.—(llear.) Tho SPEAKER—Does the lion. Member for Fins bury intend to pers:rvere in ,his motion that this House do now adjourn ? Mr. W AKLEY slid that he would, with permission, with lraw it He must, however, remind the Hon. Metn• her for Westminster (one of whose censrii news he we) that he had not tbrgotten, and he hop, d the people µ ould not tf,Met, the declaration made by that lion. Memb r in 1831, that if the Reform Bill was thrown our, he was ready to pot himself at the head of 100,000 men, and march down to that House to compel them to pass it. Sir D. L. EVANS was quite ready to enter, at a pro per time, into an explanation of the difference between the two cases. The motion was then, by leave, withdrawn. TREASON AND SEDITION BILL Sir G. ti ...37 deeply regretted that. toe spirit of sedi tion which wee displayed amongst certain classes, and the language tending to excite an insurrection for the purpose O f subverting the institutions of the empire, had rendered it necessary for the Government to come forward and ask the House to consent to an alteration of the a t s he l m un t b o e t v ne f e r t o t in he t c i i ie rcu in m te s n ta t n io ce n s (t o f f t la b w e , ti in me o s r . der s t o o tb en in a a bl w e Ministers than to ask Parliament to place any restriction on the deliberation out of doors which attended political ev e n ts. Still less was it their desire to restrict the liberty possessed by every Englishman, Scotcnman, and Irishman to draw up petitions and to approach the t i nd r right h toh t ei c ti o sr constitutedpower soar t hr were se i g rse r t n a dg t u eb their atsbi the t r u s lion T p , l h e, a a a H ouse with the expressions o f th e i r o pi n i o n on th e s t a t e tthheepCeorown, and to th a t ri g ht a l so was main ly o off public tbec 0 2:f:e t i t l i iberties of o b f y attributable the happy position of England amidst the universal s.verthrow of the thrones of Europe. There existed on the part of the people of England a deep-seated conviction rhatthepeaceful enjoymentoi liberty which was observed amongst them was the result of the constitution. But there were limits even to those rights; and when those boundaries were transgressed, and when, under pretence of discussing political questions,treason was spoken,was it to be said that Government was to be deprived of the power of meeting those occasions? He would not enter into a detail of the proofs which be had to offer of the trea sonable language which had been uttered at public meetings. The daily newspapers offered too many examples of that language. The Right lion. Baronet opposite had referred to the events which had taken place in foreign countries ; and, although he was ready to admit that those occurrences had not produced any ill effect in tne minds of the mass of well-informed people, still they had had a very considerable influence over the actions of a great number of persons, and he was induced in consequence to propose the measure which he was about to submit to the House. During the last three weeks the language that had been held at cer tain public meetings in Ireland was incompatible with he security of the peaceful inhabitant s o f t hat king "al, and their enjoyment of those institutions under which more freedom was guaranteed to them than was possessed by any other nation in Europe. The Govern ment had been reproached fur not having taken steps sooner to repress those treasonable speeches which, he regretted to sa y, had been too willingly listened to by those w ho heard them. The Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland had directed his attention to them. At first he treated them as mere ravings, but finding that they had produced dangerous effects, and that they had stimulated disaffectad persons to avow their designs, and to endeavour to combine asith foreigners to render the present institutions of Irelassd insecure, the Lord- Lieutenant felt that it became his duty to take some steps to check those proceedings—to put A stop to the Beni tioui speeches and writings of those who promoted them, and thus to obviate the evil effects which they produced. Fer that purpose proA,cutions were inetituten for sedi tion against certain parties. What seas done in conse quence by those parties? %Vas the tioversonent met by Anintitnation on their part that they would in future conform to the law ? No such thing. Tile Ministers of the Crown were met by a declaration of an intention to resort to open violence, and were told that, inas much as they were indicted for sedition, they were now anxious to commit high treason.--(Hear, hear.) When he used the word high treason, :he was atraid he might be misunderstood. Ile might be a-tikediwhy the G, vernment had not prosec uted those p mesons for h i gh treason. B u t i t mu t be observed th.st sedition and high treason were difficult to distinguish, although it might turn out that those who thought they were only committing sedition had rendered themselves liable to be punished for the graver offence—uod to be subject to the extreme penalty awarded to IS sat crime. But it must be recollected that the persons who talked in this manner were lawyers, or law-advise , 11, and that whilst exciting others to treason, they thoug't they were quite safe themselves. But in this, he thought, they might hereafter find themselves mistaken. for if by those ex citing speeches others bad been induced to commit acts of treason, those who so incited tl tow crimes by their speeches might be brought withia dm pale of the law of high treason. 11,wever. as yet no ov , rt acts or trea son had been committed, and tkis consideration brought eini to the immediate watenient which he had to make uu the subject. of the ine•isure *inch he had ro pr pose to l'Ar;istuent. Li the iVotrun newspaper would be found d:•call. , d in.rtructiorrs for the construction of b irii trades, and showing how the Queen's troops might. br-st b., interrupted and even mu,dered by missiles trim the windows or houses, whil-rt perfortniin. ! then- duty. This species of street warl,re had been studied by those who di scribed and the writers ill the paper he had named did not hesitate to declare that their object *as to drive the Queen's representative, the Lord-Lieutenant, out or the kingdom, and to instal a Republican Government there. On the 23d of March he found the following speech reported as having been delivered by Mr. Mitchell, at one of the meetings to which he had re ferred:— _ _ _ •' I am charged with writing seditious articles, having a tendency to inflame the minds of the people, and excite discontent. I did write seditious articles, and I will write seditious articles.—(Loud cheering.) I will incite the people to discontent and disaffection.—(Renewed cheering.) I know no reason why they should be con tent—why they should be well-dr...civil—towards the Government of England.—(Loud cheers.) On the day this confederation was formed, I, as you remember, came forward and declared myself a disaffected subject, and promised to devote myself continually to excite dis affection in others.—(llear, hear, and loud cheering.) I think I have kept that promise; and, come what may, I will continue to do so."—(Loud cheers.).. The — person who spoke thus was one of those who had been brought by the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland and the law officers of the Crown there under the jurisdiction of the law, and who, even if he were found guilty of utter ing such speeches as the above, would only be subjected, as a punishment for his offence, to a moderate fine and imprisonment. Another of tne persons indicted, Mr. C. G. Duffy, of the Nation, was the next speaker, to whose words he would draw the atterrion of the House. He found the following report contained in the papers of that person's address : "I am guilty of an attempt to sow disaffection in the minds of the people—l am guilty of an attempt to overthrow this Government, which keeps its footing on our sell by sheer brute force, and by nothing else. — (Loud cries of Hear, hear.') And this I tell you, that until that Government be thoroughly upset, I shall not cease to write, to speak, to act sedition. One cir cumstance alone shall stop me in this career—my death. —(Loud and enthusiastic cheers.) In their courts of ls.w we shall take issue with them boldly and despe rately. IF we do nut throw them there, we shall throw them on a broader field.—(Vehement cheering.) It must be done. The news this morning announces that Vienna is in the hands of the people.—(Renewed cheer ing.) Dublin must be iu the hands of the people.— (Enthusiastic and deafening cheers.) Stand by us, citi zens, and it shall be done.—(Cries , :f 'We such was the language uttered by these persons, and those who were in ti-:e intuit of realing tires , speechss ~o uld be aware that the more violent and tieason.ble expressions., the more vehement was the applauNe ith which they were greeted, On the saute day Mr. ceine fora ard to propose the formation of a na tional guard. lie (Sir G. Grej) must warn the House again.t adopting the supposition that this proposal was merely sedition, for it might turn out, to be a far graver ertme. The speech attributed to Mr. Devin Reilly was as follows: 6' Nlr. Devin Reilly then came forward to propose a resolution for the organization of a national guard, and in doing so was vehemently cheered. He said he was satisfied that the country would see iu that evening's meeting a good beginning.—(Cheers.) It was his high privilege to propose that they should take that evening the initiative step in the broad path of freedom— (Cheers)—to prose the first of a series of steps for which his soul had long hungered, and for the want of which tens of thousands of his murdered courerymen had pe risned—the formation of an armed national guard iu Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) Tiflis resolution called on the council of the confederation to inquire and report on the best and mos', effectual means of organizing and arming such a body.—(Loud cheering.) That was their answer to Lord Clarendon.—(Cheers.) For every one of them he might imprison, hundreds would be ready to take their places. For every leader of importance imprisoned, they would arm ten thousand men —(Loud cheers.) For every hour he confined them, they would shorten his rule in Ireland by one hundred days. For every hair of their heads he touched, for every one he hanged; but be would not talk to them of hanging, for it there was sufficient manhood and devotion amongst them, long before things arrived at such a pass they would open the gaols with their pickaxes and crowbars. Long before that day every street of Dublin might be a bat ricade or a fortress, and every pavement carpAted with blood.—(Great applause.) Long before that day they would show the tyrant out of Ireland by the light of the burning gaols.—(Cheers.) Before that day every field in Ireland must be fought, every ditch defended, and every river obtain a notorious memory to lire throughout future ages. Aye, and if they were driven into the remotest corners of their beloved island, they would make the graves of their murdered countrymen the last resting-ground for the defence of their precious liberties. —(Cheers.) If they were to fall, let them nobly . tall—. if they conquered, they must do so by their own right hands. %Voile they had arms in their hands they might defy the whole world—without them they were at the beck of every petty constable.—(Hear.) Four months ago, when the Coercion Bill was introduced, he called on the people in that hall to urtn.—(Cheers.) Now he culled on them a second time to arm, arm, arm !—(Loud cheers.) Had they armed tour months ago they would he Jour months nearer their liberty that day. Let them art), now; and when they had armed, they would be ready, and not souner.—(eheers.) o,Then they were willing to aid themselves, liod would assist them, and not betore.—(Cheers.) They had often deed told about. Ireland's opportunity, and that the time was not y• t come. Now, he would tell them that no time was oppor tune to a nation which was not prepared to go out at any moment and assert its rights —(lmmense ap plause.) It was slaves only who waited for oppor tunities—a nation of brave men should be alway' prepared.—(Cheers,) A great movement of the peopl. was passing over the world. Democracy had crossed the Alps and entered Austria. Last week he was in Paris. and there smashed the strongest dynasty in the world. —(Loud applause.) He would presently come to Ire laud.—(Cheers.) 300,000 Englishmen, Chartists, would asseinol, in Lore :on next week, and then they woul.i have Lend .n iu their hands.—(lleer, hear, and cheers.) lie pronds« d them, as a br ether, filet wte tiller that time came soeuer or later, the tirst budge in England would be answered in Ireiand.—(L cheers.) Let them welt fur that day, and prepare for it, by arming themselves ; and, till that day arrived, he had but one advice to give them, and that advice was, to • put their trust in God and keep their powder dry.' From another .1 thy sp eches it would seem that. a treasonable appeal had been made to a foreign court try to help these psrsons to overthrow the established Government and to institute a republic in Ireland. The speech to which he referred was printed in the papers as follows: " Mr. C. G. Daffy, of the Nation, then came forward and was received with loud cheers. He said he had news fur them from Mr. Smith O'Brien. He thought they knew that he was no boaster. He believed that they could trust in what he said, and felt that he said only what he intended to do. He (Mr. O'Brien) re ceived last week an address from a certain Irish club in Paris, and the answer to that address excited a storm of curiosity. The Morning Chronicle received that day expressed great annoyance that it could not lay its hands upon it, and the Lord-Lieutenant would give his eye out for it: but they would be generous—they would give it to him for nothing.—(Cheers.) Hero it was. Mr. O'Brien said, in answer to the club to which he referred, • I nave seen enough of Franca to convince me that she is able and willing, if invited, to make au effort to send 50,000 of her most valued citizens to support the Irish nation in a struggle.'—(Great cheering.) The answer of Lamartine had been received, and like all state documents, it meant nothing; but he thought they could be indifferent to it, after the promises of one of their truest men ringing in their ears.—(Cheers.) The union was repealed.—(Cheers.) He thought so that morning, but he had 50,000 additional reasons fur be lieving that it was repealed.—(Cheers.)" He did not read this extract with the intention of having it believed that he attached the slightest confidence to the statement of the disposition on the part of France to send 50,000 armed men to aid the separation of Ireland from this country.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever opinion he might entertain as to the conduct and views of the Provisional Government of France, no man could read the answer of M. De Lmartine to the Irish deputation without respecting the courage and boldness which dictated that reply—a reply giving, in the most explicit, and as he thoroughly believed, in the moat honest, terms, a distinct refusal on the part of the Government to interfere in any way iu the internal affairs of England, or to send any men to this country, or to Ireland, to aid the deputation in their treasonable designs.—(Hear, hear.) M. De Lamartine, had as a matter of course, especially under the circumstances in which he was placed, received these gentlemen with civi lity; but as to assistance from France, toe disturbers of the public peace in Ireland might wait for it in vain, whatever might have been said to some member of the deputation by some member of a Parisian club, eager!) caught up by the Irish emissary in his despair at the wholly discouraging reception given to him by the autho rities —(Hear, hear.) He would not impute to a Mem ber of the Imperial Parliament a design to deceive others, hut assuredly Mr. Smith O'Brien, in his eager enthu siasm, wholly deceived himself, when he talked of the comiug aid of 50,000 French baayonets ti, the designing men of whom he was rendering himself the tool, and to the excitable band of followers for whose fate, should they not be in time prevented from incurring punishment, he would be so deeply responsible. —(Hear.) A. Mr. Magee, it' seconding the motion, spoke in still more vehement terms ef an a l ppea to arms in the assertion of the cause they h-ol to view, lie wits sure, however, he need not rea d any more then he had read, to show what was the character of the a tvice given by these men to the excitable et owds they addressed, or what were the designs which they d.a not merely not attempt to disguise, but which they unblushingly and fiercely avowed and exulted in. —(Hear, hear.) One word he would add, however, respecting a sentence in Mr. Magee's speech, which described Lord Clarendon as going about and soliciting the protection of the wardens of the Dublin trades, for he was bound to say, in justice to the large proportion of the population of that part of the country, that, during the progress of this agitation, the Lord-Lieutenant, so far from having found it neces sary to make any appeal for a manifestation of confidence in his government, had, so far back as the 27th March, informed his colleagues at home that an address had been presented to him expressive of the fullest confidence in Ilia) and in the Government. and of the most loyal ateeeehmeet to the Crown, the laws, and to the iu stitutions of the realm, signed by persons of all ranks, professions, and religious persuasions, many R.-man Cathode clergy and prelates among them, to the number at that, date of 140,000 ; and since that dat., the eututrer of signatures appended to the de claratioe had been increased to 280,o00.—(Hear, hear.) He did rot, of c-urse, deny that there were manifests tines of much agitation and excitemlnt—rhat speeches were delivered to large assembldges of men which greatly tended to aggravate and extend that feeling of agitation and excitement—speeches most irtfkriarn.itor) and tending to most dAngereus consequeee-.—but he had no hesitation in expressing his etwvictien, that, with regard to Ireland at large, mere prevailed in that country a spirit of loyalty, of devotion to the person of the Sovereign,and of attachment to the Government and to the institutions of the realm, as vivid and strong as in any part of the empire. —(Hear.) It was for the de fence of this loyal and well disposed population, aid of the loyal and well disposed population of the realm at large, that the Government—findtrig the present law too weak for the effectual suppression of sedition and treason—now came to Parliament for such an exten sion of the law as would enable them to deal satisfacto rily with cases of this kind—with that political fever which arose from time to time, and spread terror arid alarm among the peaceful and well-disposed. He would now proceed to state as accurately as he could what the law was with reference to offences of this kind. He would premise that the law in force in England was not the same as that extant in Ireland on this subject; or, at all events, that very grave doubts prevailed on the point—doubts which had not before been raised, no occasion, fortunately, having before occurred to question the identity of the law in the two countries. The general law with respect to treason was that of 25 Edward 111., c. 2, which, as extended to Ireland by an Act of Henry VII., then applied to the United King dom; so that any deed committed by a subject of the crown of these realms, coming within the provisions of this statute, was liable to the penalties of treason. The acts here contemplated were, the compassing the death of the King, the levying war against the King, or aiding his enemies to levy war against him, within the realm or elsewhere. By the 36 Geo. 111., c. 7, the law of treason was materially extended. By that Act, which was intended to inure only during the life of that King, and to the end or the session of Parliament next follow ing his demise—the Act was passed Dec. 18, 1795—it was provided— " That if any person or persons whatsoever after the day of the passing of this Act, during the natural life of our most gracious Sovereign Lord the King (whom Almighty God preserve and bless with a long and pros perous reign) and until the end of the next session of Parliament after a demise of the Crown, shall, within the realm or without, compass, imagine, invent, devise, or intend death or destruction, or any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maim or wounding, imprison ment or restraint of the person of the same our Sovereign Lord the King, his heirs and successors, or to deprive or to depose him or them from the style, heneur, kingly name of the imperial crown of this realm, or of any otner of his ‘lajesty's dominions or c iuntrie..; or levy war against his Mejesty, his heirs and successors, witeiti this realm, in ord, r by toree or constraint to compel him or thew to change his or their measures or council., or in order to put any force or constraint upon or to intimidate, or overawe, both Houses, or either House of Parliament ; or to move or stir any foreigner or stranger with force to invade this realm, or any other his Majesty's dominions, or countries under the obeisance of his Majesty, his heirs, and successors; and such cow passings, imaginations, inventions, devices, or intentions, or any of them, shall express, utter, or declare, by pub lishing any printing or writing, or by any overt act or deed, being legally convicted thereof upon the oaths of two lawful and credible witnesses upon trial, or other wise convicted or attainted by due course of law, then every such person and persons, so as aforesaid offending, shall be deemed, declared, and adjudged to be a traitor and traitors, and shall suffer pains of death, and also lose and forfeit as in cases of high treason." Under this extension of the former Act any person going to France, and soliciting aid from the French people to alter the existing institutions of the country, rendered himself liable to the penalties set forth. The 36th Geo. 111., c. 7, as he had said, was designed as only a temporary statute. but by the 57 Geo. 111. c. 6, the first section of the 36 Geo. 111., which he had just read to the House, was made perpetual. The latter Act, passed in 1819, was, of course, subsequent to the union, and consequently doubts had been very seriously enter tained whether, as rendering permanent a special Act passed before the union, it could be considered applicable to Ireland. The most authoritative legal opinions were decidedly against the applicability of this renewed Act to Ireland ; and as a matter of course against the existence of any authority on the part of the Gtvern went to subject offences committed in that country to the provisions of the Act. The law, therefore, might be fairly stated as being, in point of fact, different in the two countries. In point of principle, however, it was quite clear that no such difference ought to exist. —(Hear, hear.) The law upon this subject ought most manifestly to be equally applicable to all parts of the realm, In Ireland, however, the only law at present applicable to treason was the 25th Edw. 111., to which be had already referred. He believed he might say that Ireland had derived no practical benefit from the exemption he had stated. On the contrary, he was of opinion that the harsh measures to which Ireland had been from time to time subjected might have been spared her, had the more effectual provisions of the treason statutes of George 111. been applicable to her as well as to the rest of the realm.—(Hear, hear.) What was the consequence of the fact at the present juncture? Why this: that when the Governmeut of Ireland, di recting its attention to the dangerous language spoken by agitators, and to the dangerous effects of that lan guage upon the excitable persons addressed, turned to the law of Ireland for a remedy, it found the powers of that law inadequate to „the repression of the evil. The only law applicable there ter4tolte offence of which the disturbers of order were guilty, was a sedition few, under which the offenders charged were at liberty to put in bail, a circumstance placing delay in the way of heir trial, and giving thew the opportunity, if they chose to incur the additional risk, of seeking, in the over throw of the institutions under which they lived, to u relieve themselves trom any trial at all—thus converting heir very crime into a mode of averting its consequences es to the mode of dealing with the case, it had been suegested that the simple course would he to pass an Act extending the Ist section of the Act 3i George 111., C. 7, made a perpetual Act by 57 George 111., c. 6, to Ireland, ehert;by the same law would be male to prevail in both eumuntries. He quite agreed that the same law should he enforced throughout all eortiens of the kingdom. But there was another point first; to be consider el. The ; atige of" the Act was very prop,. ly must sweeping and comprehensive; but its penalties, ut the same time, were, it must be admitted, of extreme severity, and, as such. altogether o pp ose d t o t h at m i t i gation o f o ur criminal code which trom time te time of late years had been effected by the Legislature .—( Hear.) There bad srigh!LtLyt been a gi eat clierige in public opinion on . the o u nt i s h• f the offences which should meet with capital ment, , t a nd the Government preset.matter, possible, in n ub t l h ic e ntaawansotprelyrteacatlpyoarset public pinion. pinion. He did not propose , the refore, to extend the d to Ireland, nor to continue it as it stood Act as it stood ystatutory provision at variance with the p g to England. He did not desire to perpetuate o r r o to rt e a u s a o ct i l ' a n te years in criminal legislation.—(Hear, hear.) At the same time he had no intention of repealing that part of the statute which inflicted the penalty of death for the ff'ence of compassing or designing the death or impri sonment of the sovereign—(hear, hear)—though, even were they to repeal it, he believed the ordinary treason law would visit such a crime with death. He proposed to iepeal all the other portions of the section inflicting the punishment of death for the offences named therein, and he then proposed to re-enact the provision in other respects—for Ireland as well as for the rest of the king dom—substituting, however, for the offence of sedition that of high treason, and for the pain of death, the punishment of transportation for life, or, at the discre tion of the judge, for a term of years not less than seven. This was the substance of the proposed measure —(Hear, hear)—but there was another material point to which he must advert. The provisions touching the devising or imagining the deposition of the sovereign, or the levying war against her, &c., would meet much of the public offence which ho was now denouncing to the House, but it would not meet all the evil. It would have been observed that, in expressing the mode of such compassing or devising, the Act had only prohibited the publishing a declaration in writing, or by overt act. Now, it would be an overt act in a party to go to a foreign country and invite foreign aid against his own sovereign, or the institutions of his own country, but a person on a platform in Dublin, or elsewhere, however he might advocate the theory of suck a change, provided he did not put forth a declaration in writing, might be exempt from the penalties set forth under the Act. He felt it right that on reviewing this Act, in mitigating its severity, and applying it to the whole kingdom, no loophole should be left at which these gentlemen—who, while instigating others to dis affection and its penalties, were extremely careful of their own safety—should by simply omitting themselves to print declarations which were regularly gathered from their mouths, and printed in the newspapers, avoid the chastisement in which they so unscrupulously sought to involve the crowds whu listened to them. He therefor , proposed to extend the penalties under the Act to all such persens as should " by open unadvised speaki , i , ie. compass, or i mag i ne, or promote the sa id d es i gns . (Hear, hear.) This was the substance of the Bill which he now proposed to lay on the table of the House—a Bel which had the entire sanction of his Noble Friend the Lord-Lie utenant, an d w i t h ou t th e provisions of which w that Nobleman, than whom no man •as more earnestly ert had expressed his entire inability devoted to the principles of constitutional ut iii l i o s n te a rthe l libl affa'lrs aidot the country imi a constitutional manner. With the f this measure, however , his No ble Friend had e xpresse r s h m im s elf as P er i e mely confident in the expectation of being murder, and to m a k e th mus , able totn quail b e f o re aull t ' t i m i e n ir th C a o c u e nt a 4' d s laws who wholly set then, nou , ht. There were other measures which would h ~t eeesser y aceernietniments to the present Bill, measure e , meet the epees"' now wade V) tlm disaffected to arm; out he would not mix up these measures with that befors the House, and which he now begged permission to in troduce.—(Hear, hear.) Air. J. O'CONNELL felt bound to oppose th e intro duction of this Bill, lie opposed it from no synapati with the criminal agitation which now disturbed his un• happy country, and with the persons who so unscrupu lously promoted that agitation, but from the si ncere conviction that while the l aws a t present in existe nce were perfectly adequate to the suppression of the ev il contemplated, the introduction of this measure would create the very highest discontent among classes hitherto well disposed and peaceable. Mr. FUME quivi approved of the mitigation of th. provisions of tins Act, nod of its extension, in itr, irnended form, to Ireland; but he should decidedly test against the introduction of the clause, w hteli, as he understood it, Went to gag the free discussion of po litical subjects. Lord JOHN RUSSELL explaine,l, that the prom guns ep which the tionotte a ble Gentlemen otjected, plied not to the ft ; e easeeessioff of public' opinion. io Freeches direettel eee. , ett or crown of I.l' e Sorer , ifert. Mr. II E see,' he had ne desire to impede the Go' vernmAit in its efforts to .oppress unlawful egitation but hr, ruuq protest against aey eaegefg clauses, such as he undi rsteed that new proposed :o be. Suppo-e ) 1e ' e vv, re to h a at sume public etiug that ipp, nto say preferred a re p u bli c —(C r i es o f ‘• Oh, o h.") Well, b.! would defer any obs e rvations o n th e pr o vision till a came duly before them. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that, if he stood alone, he would give his vote against this measure. lie was sur prised to hear the Right Hon. Barocet propose such s Bill as he had hid upon the table at the present junc ture. He should take example by what had happene d abroad, and the concessions which had been made abroad. —(Hear, hear.) One of the first of these concessions was entire liberty of the press; and yet here was the Right Hon. Baronet raking up a statue of Edward ID" to effect restrictions of the press and of speech in this country. He asked would the House of Commons agree to such an infraction of the constitution?—(Hear, hear.), He warned the Government that the Bill would be in' ffectual as their coercion Bill had been. He had then told them to try a special commission; they had tried it; and had found it amply sufficient for the vindication of the law. But he supposed that this was one of the re' medial measures which the Government had prornise4; --(Hear.) It was a contradiction of all the former acts an professions of the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern . went. Instead of proposing new laws for sedition the Ge vernment should attend to the claims and sufferings of the people. It was Junius who had sail that agitation was the hue and cry which foretold the change that was coming. If this Bill passed, open agitation would 1 1 transformed into secret conspiracy, and matters wont; be in a worse position than ever. As to invasion fro., a foreign country, he had no fear of that ; and if it did come he should be one of the first to oppose it ; but ." ' believed it to be a mere cry, got up to support coercive laws. He asked the Liberal Members who had been sent to that House by the people whether they well'. support one of the most tyrannical laws that had eve r disgraced the statute-book ? The principle upon whin , ! the Government was acting was, in fact, one of coereien both for England and Ireland ; and he trusted that the . Irish Members, at least, would not content themselv.! with giving a silent vote in oppositi o n t o it. Let tn , ! Irish people have equal laws, a nd th en th e y w ould fl:"_ fear a few uncomfort a bl e men , w h o were uncom f o rtable from negligence, from idl, ness, and from want of le" dustry.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord might have e strong government if he r este d on t h e peop l e, i nstea d o f raking up old and obsolete statutes tor their coercion' He had told the people often that they had greater privileges, if properly exercised, than any people in • Europ,-; but those privileges were freedom of the presO F and of speech, and it these were taken away the privi' ,e4es would vanish at once.—(hear, hear.) At a tim e , when thrones wsre totterieg, and sceptres erashinll around us, it it monstrous to hear the British Geyer!n' meat proposing a series or coercion laws. Great stress had been laid on articles appearing in certain nowt; papers, but had Hon. Members looked over the files e' the Morning Chronicle during the agitation for th e Reform Bill? They might there see how Colonel Ma' cerone gave instructions in street firing, and the be et modes of resisting so ldi ers i n cities. That was n, ° treason, beceuseit helped th e N o bl e L or d an d h i s F r i e nds into power; but still it had a wonderful resemblance t° the articles complained of at the present momen t ' Although generally, and as a matter o f courtesy , 611 s readings were conceded, ho should on the present er a ' zion go out, it' he went alone, in opposition to the Govern' went proposition. Mr. R. M. FOX said that it would be quite possibl e e to restore the prosperity of Ireland if proper roe°, were taken for that purpose. Ev er y one connecte d wi ld d Ireland would join with him in abh o r rence o f t h e i n flate ' _, harangues, the treason or sedition (whichever it I"' called) of Messrs. Mitchell and Mea g h er; l ut Govern meat might do much, and the landlord s o f I re l an d mig ht do much, to render such har an g ues ent i re l y innocuous' , In his opinion qui e t mi g ht i n one mont h h ere - esta blish': in Ireland if Government would come forwa r d, the people a poor..law equal to their distress, and gtv' ° „'; them the right to relief. They must a l so exten d franchise and the number of representatives. If th e ' would do this, and cons e nt t o cons id er i n t h at House ti",• much mooted question of the repeal of the union, Aran' quillity would soon be restored in Ireland. Mr. GRATTAN said he rose to state his conviction O f the loyalty of the Irish people. He should never ha /s doubted that loyalty, but for the extraordinary pronee' t ; Lion of the Government, and th e o di ous spy system w hie it appeared had been establi s h e d i n Ireland. He fear ed that Lord Clarendon h a d b een m i sled into the fortni": able preparations he had made in filling every corne r of the city of Dublin with t roo p s . H e s h ou ld hav e believed that there was no cause for alarm, e "; cept for old women and unm arr i e d l a di es, had he 1 1 , seen an advertisotnent, h ea d e d " P atr i c k Hy's° pike-maker to the Castle"—(A laugh) —and soneethinoi very similar in Limerick, where a man who had et°. behind the chair at a public m ee ti ng , an d ca ll e d ou t 0 . 1 pikes, turned out to be a Government spy. Why' was reviving all the horrors of th e C ast l ereag h system' —(Hear, hear.) As to this Bill, it would fail as fornie f Bills had failed, and so would their entire system ° governing Ireland. They were governing that count r y 4 with an army—a system which, in th e p resen t state ~ the world, they could not maint a i n . Th e y m ust tan some new system, one which should send back the sf; sentees. It was Demosthenes wh o h a d sa id that SP property of the absent and indifferent became the Pr el of the present and ent er p r i s i ng . Th at was the cas e 10 Ireland when the country was in the hands of the freile; coated men. The people of Ireland were sta*ving,,, „,b ° th , •y had no wi s h fo r se p arat i on or a republic. .-ibb only republicans were the f avoure d peop l e o f t h e pert! I while the Roman Cath o li cs o f th e sout h h a d direct l e opposite tendencies. As for the priests, they vi e o r s neither republican nor French, for they could 0 . 0 but remember the treat ment t h e i r or d er h a d rece ived 1 r the first French revolution. The Honourable aletoh ° ( concluded by recommendin g ame li orat i ve , i nste ad °f coercive, measures as remed ies f or t h e present con dition of Ireland. Lord D. STUART said that th e Bill b e f ore rbe House was one for the better protection of the Crn vi " and Government. Now he thought that the best wolf eecure th•• Crown and Government would be to atten d to the wants and wishes o f the people.—(Hear, bee r ' ) There was no ether way, an , ' the observation aPP lie ' d equally to Ireland, Scotland, and England.—(Heard lie was not one of those who was in favour of rash an d hasty changes, but lie believed the people of Engil would not long b e content without an extension of i franchise ; nor would they long be content to see sw boroughs represented b y the same number of Merob e " ,, - as large, populous, and important cities ; if, indeed, th e : 6 weuld be content to see such boroughs representeo l l all. What the people wanted was a new Reform . 13 1 and that principally because they believed it would lad to a more equal system of taxation. In Ireland t o o there were many things the people had a right to ` I L mend, though he was not prepared to say that sO"' measure such as that now proposed might not be Del abroad Y roA r d foitwas throughout i mpossible theland to without perm i s t om t e r treason attempt s tS made to suppress it. But when Government broug forward measures of ceercion, they a ere boonshe thought, to accompany them with messui .a to ameliorate the condition of tho people, 11° 0 1 supply their w an t s . Thi s was t h e op i n i on he l h expr esse d i n N ovem b er last on the Arms Bill, w hin he had v o t e d i u f avour o f i n the confidence that (lover -ti went would lose no ti me i n b r i ng i ng f orwar d attutlioree; tive measu res . Th a t con fid ence h e was sorry however). say had b een m i s pl ace d ; f or a l t h oug h April bad arr ive d ; with the exception of a tenant•right Bill, which he tl i rt derstood was so complicated that it would be difficultao not impossible, to make it w or k, an d one ot h er P I which had been introduced i n t h e ot h er House, no re , medial measures had been brought l orwar d . Th a t Ire land had many grievance s w hi c h d emanded re dre s s could not be denied. Ther e was t h e Irish Church . the , representation, the franchise, the municipal institution s ` and many other grievan ces w hi c h they ought W s e` about redressing when th ey proposed measures to ti down violence and sediti on . If I r i shmen were trea ted with justice, their l o y a lty m i g h t at all times and uOl, all circumstances be d e p en d e d on. He concurred W'/-( the Hon. Member fur Montrose in his condemnation 0 5 the gagging clause. He should oppose the e nectrae l3 of any law which i n t er f ere d w i t h freedom of speec h' ~., (Hear, hear.) Liberty of speech was ono of the 0 3 9, 1 valuable rights a free people could possess, and it coo l , not be too carefully or jealously guarded. He could sure the Government that the people of England wet„ regard the Bill in this resp ec t w i t h j ea l ousy an d 0 0- pinion. Iu voting for the present m o ti on , hi s o bj ect Wt 1, that the measure might be introduced an d cons idered ' but he should reserve to himself the right to rote against the second reading, should he afterwards dinar prove of it. Mr. REYNOLDS held that a Bill so unconstitution al in its nature should be met on t h e threshold. 110 had warned the Government in November that their Aril ' Bill would fail, and there could b e no greater proof °a he failure of that measur e t h an that Ministers silo& consider this Bill neces sary. The object was to i n flict transportation as the punishment for offences which wee' new punishable by fi ne and imprisonment. But the re 13 1 was another and more i mportant objection to the": which was, th a t it left to the Atto rney -G eneral to Pr: secute and infliet t h e pun i shment of transportation f words which a man might have uttered in the moment of passion and excitement, or even for words he might net"; have uttered, but w hi c h m i ght b e proved against him tome hired incendiary; and he was sorry to say IrelavA" was fertile in the production of such characters—V, ' v a e u r g n h i2e —and Il e mi e h ta, might refer to the conduct to add that all Qv mi•sioner, in sending g r oi t t : n ry ets , o h j e .t doi3ertoicwonu employer Browne, t g n e me d pe t n h o li e al ato: ' 'he ienfpoirkmetitohne ( F le ' Pe em nd a e n ti opnarlt:culars of which had appeared in tb; and too other papers. papers. He thought ,, Gov . er . tica n e f fl o i upon persons of that description hich they acted. The Arms BP; ' as p assed in consequence of the numerous threateniay notices which had been sera, and which, in the majority I i ' r cases, he believed had emanated from the polic e agents. In the case of Colonel Browne, however, he f° r . one could never b e li eve what t h ey h a d b een told, t he; Government had sanctioned his proceedings.—( Hear.) Let them consider for a moment what was the condition of Ir e l an d . I n 18 months 1,000,000 of people had di ed from w ant o f t h e common necessaries of life, and day h s i lay m any were sti ll dyi ng f rom t h e same cause. Swell some allowance should be made for the language of a, people nat ura lly excitable wh en su ff er i ng a nd , octi a calainity.—(Hear, hear.) If in Euglan . '; ;me people were in the sum• position, he d o ubtal . .ot hut th at t h ey woo l.] be talking treason 012 ° l f Idi S. Ile could tell them that but it r the influence e, ,he Roman Catholic hi, larch) Ireland nor all the us: litary power of the Government would be able to koer