The Sun. — London, England, 1848-02-23 00:00:00

TAR ar 14, VO .13 ON o W d bov far ituoka hi thinking that weva nut at all borne out in their course by the precedents which hail been quoted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex plained that his misapprehension had been as to the secret character of the Committee. All he had origi nally intended, and all he wanted now was, that the Corn • mittee should have the power, when necessary, of sup pressing evidence. In answer to Mr. NEWDEG ATE, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Committee would follow the course adopted by that of 1828. Mr. HUME hoped that the Committee would be properly appointed, and would not be composed princi pally of men who were hardened in large estimates.— (Laughter.) He trusted that the Committee would do its duty, and that the House would agree to no more votes for the army or navy until it (the Committee) had made its report. There was no point on which the country had a stronger opinion than the necessity of re ducing our naval and military expenses. Sir R. PEEL said that the Hon. Member for Bucks had misunderstood what bad fallen from him (Sir R. Peel) on the previous evening if he thought he had con tended that the course now proposed was sanctioned by that which had been previously taken. His chief object in rising on the precious day had been to inquire whether precedents would justify the appointment of a Secret Committee.—(Hear, hear.) His recollection was at variance with that of the Noble Lord opposite. In the former Committee, although it had exercised a proper discretion as to withholding certain portions of the evidence, still it was only a Select not a Secret Committee. Sometimes Committees had been ap pointed by ballot, but those of 1797 and 1607 had been appointed by nomination. He believed he was right in affirming that all the Committees which had been mentioned were Select and not Secret Committees. Now, although he should not oppose this Committee, he was bound to say that he was perfectly ready to give his opinion on the estimates, should they be brought forward in the usual form, and he was sure that the Noble Lord himself would acknowledge that no Select Committee could discharge the functions of the executive with the force or quickness which the public exigencies required.—(Hear, hear.) Ho trusted that this Committee was not to be looked upon as redeeming the Executive from any portion of its responsibility. He was prepared to consider the estimates as prepared on the responsibility of Government. He knew, from recent experience, that the imputations thrown upon the Executive of a desire to increase the estimates was one entirely unfounded. He believed it was the interest and desire of Governments generally to bring down the esti mates as low as possible. The impression that they were kept up for the purposes of patronage, of extended military appointments, of gratifying supporters by having commissions to give away—he believed that all impressions on that bead were utterly erroneous, and that it was decidedly for the interest of an administra tion, looking at its stability, that the estimates should be as low as they could be made.—(Hear, hear.) He must say that, after the panic which had prevailed in this country, after the alarm which had pervaded large classes of the community, he was glad to see that both had visibly abated. lie confessed that he had been under some apprehension that Government would be unduly influenced by that alarm, and was rather relieved to find thet no increase was proposed in the estimates. He had read the letter of a Noble Friend of his for whom he entertained a high respect, indicating the course which should be taken in case of invasion.—(A laugh.) That letter stated that in such an emergency the duty of the Lord Mayor of London would be—not to summon the citizens to its defence— but to make the Mansion-house head-quarters for making out billets for the French army.—(Laughter.) He must say that when he read that letter, he thought it gave a most imperfect and unjust account of the spirit of Englishmen.—(Cheers.) He did not mean of the military—eves that splendid corps the Guards, which his Noble Friend had since relieved from all im putation—but of the strength of the country, of the spirit of the men of mature age—aye, and even the old men and old women.—(Cheers, and laughter.) He verily believed that if the Lord Mayor, instead of occupying himself in the defence of the metropolis, were to abandon that duty for the purpose of billeting the French army, he would perform that duty in secret, and dare not show himself in Cheap aide.—(Cheers and laughter.) He was perfectly con vinced that if an attempt should be made to subject this country either to insult or invasion, it was difficult to estimate the spirit with which such an attempt would be met,—(Hear, hear.) He said nothing against the propriety of taking proper precautions, because, although we knew what would be the ultimate result of any at tempt, yet even the most partial success must be accom panied with much ruin to private fortune and great demo.' lotion.—(Hear.) But he confessed that on seeing the estimates, after reading all the recent publications, so far from being astounded by the proposition of the Govern ment, he was greatly relieved by the proposition of the Noble Lord. Ho thought that a wise discretion had beefi exercised in not increasing the naval or military forces. None but a Government could know the amount of force necessary; and when a proposition Was made on the responsibility of Government, the Circumstances must be very clear which could induce him, as a private individual, to offer any opposition to such proposal. He would only say that, looking at the present state of the world, and the disposition which we ourselves showed to increase our colonial empire—looking at Labuan, Hong-Kong, and other recent acquisitions, which were much approved of, especially , by the mercantile community—he was not surprised that large increases in our naval and military establishments should be necessary. He could not look at what had occurred in China so very recently without seeing that a necessity might spring up at. any moment for protecting the lives and properties of British subjects in distant parts of the world.—(Hear, hear.) If Govern ment, therefore, recommended a small addition in the marines and scientific corps, be did not feel justified in offering any opposition. They should look also to Italy, Spain, and, in the New World, to Mexico, particularly with reference to the spirit which seemed to be animat ing the American public—a spirit which he thought would act to their own detriment—(Hear, hear)—he did say, looking at all these things, that it was not unrea sonable in the present year to ask that our military and naval establishments might not be reduced. That was the conelusion to which he had come, founded upon those means of observation which were open to every Member of the House. He was prepared, therefore, to discuss these estimates, and give his assent to them generally, without the intervention of any Committee. At the same time, as Government in vited the co-operation of the Hope in considering an the details of the estimates, and in inquir ing into the amount of the force, the reason why Go vernment consider that amount necessary, together with the mode of conducting the military establishments of the country, it being understood that such inquiry was not to interfere whit the discretion of the Government and their responsibility as to the amount of the force, he thought it possible that some public advantage might result. He thought public advantage had resulted from Similar inquiries in former years. He must, however, agree with the llon. Member for Montrose, that much would depend on the constitution of the Committee. It would not be satisfactory if wholly composed of persons " hardened to high estimates"—(Hear, and a laugh) — or of men influenced by official habits. But if the in quiry were conducted by men who would exercise a full and free judgment upon all points of public expenditure brought within their notice—of course he meant that the inquiry should be conducted by a Select and not a Secret Committee—it was possible that some reduction in the public expenditure might be effected without prejudice to the public service. It would, however, be a most objectionable precedent if they attempted to interfere with the functions of the Government in respect to the estimates which they had on their own responsibility brought forward; and it was because that was his opinion that he stated he .was prepared to assent gene rally to the estimates as they had been laid before the House. Mr. BRIGHT could assure the Right Hon. Baronet that so far as the north of England was concerned, the panic which prevailed had no reference to any fee: of French invasion, but rather to an apprehension that that cry would be made the pretext for increasing the military forces of the country, and so"to add to the burden of taxation.—(Hear, hear.) Neither was this alarm alto. gether groundless, for the people remembered well that some years ago a senseless rumour of a war with Russia, and subsequently a foolish pamphlet published by a French Prince, had been seized by the Government of the day as grounds for adding to our military and naval establishments. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that there was to be no increase in the army; but, as he understood, the 5,000 men who had been re cruited for India, but who were uo longer required there, were to be made part of the permanent force of this country. What was that but an increase of the Military force of the country ?—(Hear, hear.) The Bight Honourable Baronet had referred to the necessity of giving protection to our colonies. He (Mr. Bright) Zlita one of those who thought that if the colonies t hey more responsibility thrown upon themselves, if had to bear the expenses of t he war s they in v°Ked by their squabbles with the nations—as in the ease of New Zealand and the Cape—we should have no 6 , 11 ... eh items as 1,100,000/ for the cost of the Kafir war.— (Rear, hear.) He concurred with the Right Hon. Baronet as to the responsibility of Ministers in bringing forward the estimates, but be could not forget that every Member was individually responsible to his constituents for any addition that might be made to the burdens of a rople already suffering from severe distre ss .—( Hear, 6e r.) Again, though the Noble Lord did not propose a ny actual addition to the number of men voted for the L itt nY. he had intimated that the country must look for ward to a gradual augmentation of that force; and when they f ound that in about ten years the estimates for the ar what and navy had increased from 1 1 to 17 millions , esaa o.• * security had they that in ten years more another en Millions would not be added ?—(Hear, hear.) As ' l3 What had been said about not interfering with the r e sent estimates, it was rather an extraordinary doc trine for their days to hold that the army, navy, and ordnance establishments were such sacred things that •P l .eY must not be touched by a Committee of that House. e "'" would say, if Ministers refused to sanction the re. ~nendation of the Committee of' the House—sup- I t r'ng that the result of the inquiry Altould be to.show a t some reduction might safely be made—their course would bo to vacate their offices.—(Hear, hear.) Colonel SIBTHORP hoped the proposed Commit '4e would extend their inquiries to the salaries of the fpencipal officers of the several public d e p artments. * s ' however, thought it a dangerous prec edent to es a n s f_ er the functions of the House of Commons to any "'met Committee. He anticipated no good result from th e TurY• With regard to the financial scheme of e on g t p e o r i sa there was but ono feeling throughout this itne But, if IN and that was a feeling of disgust.—([sear.) Cho r vm people had only the courage, the spirit, and ' ea verance to make their remonstrances heard faseseeeeseeeeseiasaateeeee--essasesee e e seeeiiieee e4seeziea#seessaeve In that lionise, the Noble laird anti his colleagesee might bid a speedy adieu to offiee.—(llear.) It !eight be asked, who were the men 'o take their plaecs ? he (Colonel Sibtliorp)?—(dear, and a laugh.) For Lc, price in the world would he accept office —(Renews ; laughter.) But he would say to the people of this country, " Take your stand, and do your duty as Elie lishmen ought to do, and you will soon find an honest Ministry."—(Bear, hear.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL—There was one misappre hension into which the Hon. Member for Buckingham shire (Mr. Disraeli) had fallen, which, considering' the study he bad devoted to the subject, was somewhat extraordinary. The Honourable Member stated that the appointment of a Select Committee was an abandon ment by the House of its privilege of voting and enti rising the estimates. Nothing could he more mistaken than that view. The appointment of a Select Committee, though it gave the ll ruse the benefit of the information it obtained, and perhaps the opinion to which it might arrive, by no means deprived the House of the power is possessed of voting or refusing the estimates. The Hun. Gentleman, though he showed that the precedents o' former years were not exactly followed in this case, hail failed in showing that they were not so nearly followed as circumstances permitted; nor that those precedents did not form authority for the course Ministers were now pursuing; nor was it unfair to say that, whereas in former times when the income of the country was much less than at present, and the expenditure greatly contracted, all subjects relating to such income war.. referred to one Committee.—(Hear, hear.) Now, when both the income and expenditure were se largely increased, one Committee could not well extend its inquiries to all those subjects; and that, therefcre, the investigation should be limited, in the first instance, to certain branches only of the whole subject. This was not abandoning precedent, it was merely adapting it to the present time and to present circum stances. It did not appear to him necessary in the first instance to do moee than to appoint a Committee on the miscellaneous estimates, and it was the misapprehension which appeared to prevail as to the estimates generally which had induced him to think it advisable to have the whole matter calmly and dispassionately considered by a Committee of the House of Commons. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had spoken correctly when he said that, with respect to the navy and army, Govern ment did not propose any increase in the present votes over those of last year, and the slight increase which it was proposed to make in the number of the marines was not in consequence of any alarm which had infected Ministers, Hor of anything they had heard as to what might be doing by foreign countries; butsit was merely carrying nut an object which had been announced last year.—(Hear, hear.) So far from proposing any great armament, it was proposed to take only the same number of men for the army and navy as were voted last year, together with that addition to the number of marines which last year it had been thought advisable to make, but which addition had been deferred till the present year. It might not have occupied any very long time had these matters been left to be dis cussed by the Committee of the whole House, but it had been thought that perhaps upon the whole it might be more satisfactory that there should be an inquiry more in detail than could be carried on by the House, and that they should have the advantage of such sug gestions for future economy as might be made by the Committee. With regard to the number of men to be voted, Government did not wish to get aid of any part of their responsibility: they thought that the consideration of such matters properly belonged to the Executive, which ought to propose to the House such amount of force for the several departments of the public service as they, acting on their responsibility, thought neces sary. No doubt the House had also a responsibility in the matter, and if they should be of opinion that the estimates proposed by Government were ex cessiee, and should decide upon cutting theM down, by taking 10,000, or any other number, of men from the army and navy, and the Government did not consider that such a reduction could with safety be made, it would be their duty to abdicate their offices.—(Herr.) He was extremely sorry to learn that in the case of such an event arising, her Majesty would not have the benefit of the services of the Hon. and Gallant Colonel (Sib thorp).—(A laugh.) Before he sat down he wished to correct a misapprehension into which the Hon. Member for Manchester and others had fallen, in supposing from what he said on Friday night that he proposed to in crease the estimates for the military forces of the country year by year: whatever the language he had used on the occasion referred to, that was by no means his meaning. —(Hear.) He had heard much—perhaps more than the public generally—of the insufficiency of the force we had to repel any attempt at foreign aggression, and of the neglect of Government in making preparations for the sudden breaking out of hostilities, and he endeavoured to show that that subject had not been lost sight of ; that by continuing, year by year, in the course they had adopted, of devoting a certain sum every year to the im provement of our national defences, without making any actual increase in the force employed, they were placing the country in such a situation of strength, that there was no reason to fear for the result in the event of any sudden outbreak of hostilities, and that by laying out the 'same sum, or even a diminished sum every year in this way, our position became strengthened year by year. This was the view in which he spoke, and his ob ject was to show that what it was complained that Government had not done, had in fact been done by each successive Government for years past. He concurred with the Hon. Member for Manchester that the colonies might fairly be made to bear a portion of the expense incurred in the defence.—(Hear, hear.) Government could not permit the life and property of its subjects to be destroyed in our colonies, and means must therefore he provided for their protection, but be fully admitted that it was hard to call upon the mother country to bear the whole expense.—(Hear, hear.) In the same way, whenever British subjects were in foreign countries, in case of danger or outrage, whether arising from the act of the Government or from popular insur rection, it was expected that the property and persons of those subjects would be protected by a British force. This necessity for protection might. occur in any part of the world. If British subjects were in danger in Mes sina, in Palermo, or in the Canton river, the question was, " Where is the British ship to protect us ?" And Government would be open to blame if they did pro vide less protection than British subjects had hitherto received, or if the name of an Englishman was less an object of respect in foreign countries than it used to be in former times. He did not shrink from the part he bad taken in proposing these estimates, and ho assured the Noble Lord (Bentinck) that while ha (Lord J., Russell) held the office ha did he would never shrink from that responsibility which attached to him, and that he wanted no Commit'e to screen him from the con sequences.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BANKES concurred with his Hon. Friend (Mr. Disraeli), that by at - pointing this Committee the respon sibility was in a great degree withdrawn, both from the Ministers of the Crown and the House of Commons. The inquiry was proposed only in consequence of the notice given by the Hon. Member for Montrose to post pone the estimates until after the decision of the House on the Budget. He feared the inquiry might be so far mischievous as it might lead foreigners to suppose that the object was to make preparations for hostilities. In other respects he concurred with the Right Hon. Gentle man (Sir R. Peel) that the people who were now called upon to bear, in addition to their present distress, in creased taxation, should be satisfied the proposed esti mates were absolutely necessary for the public service. If the results should be to show that a reduction of the expenditure of the country was possible it would be re ceived with gratitude by the public. With regard to the misapprehension to which the Noble Lord had alluded, he believed it bad arisen from his saying that the 150,000/. he proposed for the establishment of a militia force was the beginning of a new system. He (Mr. Bankes) hoped they would have no more of this militia vote this year, and if the militia should ever again be established, he trusted that the service would be voluntary and not compulsory.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. INGLIS objected to any Government dele gating its functions to others, and governing the country by means of a Committee of the House of Commons. The only consolation he had in the present case was in the assurance given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and repeated by his Noble Friend (Lord John Russell), that Goverment intended to abide by their estimate to the letter, and that if they were not approved of by the Committee, and the House should in consequence make any alteration in them, his Noble Friend would abdis sate his office.—(Hear, hear.) If he adopted any such alteration, either in principle, distribution, or amount, he would be utterly unworthy of the confidence of the House and the position he held—(Hear, hear)—and it was only because he believed from his Noble Friend's high character that he would adhere, under any circum stances, to his own estimates, and not adopt any other, that he permitted this motion to pass without dividing against it. Captain HARRIS contended that the alarm as to foreign invasion was not altogether unfounded, seeing the propability of the war party in France coming into power.—(Oh, oh.) It was within the limits of proba bility that within a few years a body of foreign troops might be thrown on our shores, and if so, it was the opinion of the loading officers of both services that our defences were net equal to such an emergency. iMr. SLANEY hoped the Committee would extend tbeir inquiry to the altered value of money of late years as compared with the price of articles of necessity, with the view of ascertaining how far the salaries of public officers might be reduced. Should the Committee re commend reduction, and the Noble Lord should be con vinced that it might be adopted without injury to the public service, he hoped that he would act upon such re commendation, notwithstanding the appeal of the Hon. Member for Oxford University.—(Hear.) Mr. S. CRAWFORD looked to this Committee as a convenient means of propping up extravagance. — (Heal:, hear.) The estimates ought to be subjected to the freest discussion in the House without being referred to any Select Committee. Mr. COBDEN said that in the reasons put forward against these Committees he did not concur.—(Hear.) He did not conceive that by their appointment the juris diction of the House was taken away. They were to be appointed for the purpose of examining into the details of the miscellaneous, the army, the navy, and the ord nance services, and whatever might be their decision, he should feel himself perfectly at liberty to vote with the Hon. Member for Montrose against any increase in these departments. It wax supposed both in and out of that House, that those Committees would disclose some mysterious secrets, Now, he believed that there were no secrets to be disclosed. He believed that the newspapers of the clay communicated to the public the secrets of every Government, sooner even than the diplomatists themselves. The day for plots and national conspiracies was gone by, and, as for France, she could not dispose of a five-franc piece without its becoming matter of discussion in the Chamber of Deputies. He, therefore, contended that these Committees in no way deprived Hon. Members of their right to vote upon any estimate submitted to them. He maintained, en the contrary, that the) whole) responsibility of voting those estimates lay with that House, and not with the F.xecu tive Governs ont, whose duty simply .consisted in pro• • posing them. The pinch was coming fast upon dices, snd they could not screen themselves from the responsis 1).14 of voting too much money by attempting to throw lit on the Executive Government. The country was s,etting a great relish for common sense, and ha was tneretore glad of this dispute about the property tax. As far as economy was concerned, he admitted that the Reform Act had proved a failure, although in other re spects it hail worked wonders ; and if the doctrine were to prevail that the Executive Government was to be the party responsible for voting away the public money, then would he defy any absolute Government or despotism to increase taxation with equal readiness. In fact, no despot would venture it., for he would be afraid of his neck. Who was to be responsible, if the Parliament threw the responsibility upon the Government, and the Govern ment flung it back upon the Parliament? The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam worth said that the people called for more colonies. True ; but why did Noble Lords and Right Hon. Gentlemen in that House continually flutter the people by referring to the pos session of au empire on which the sun never sets? The lamentable massacre at Canton had been referred to as an excuse for demanding more money ; but, while it took place, we had ten ships of war in the Tagus, in cluding four steamers, and 4,812 sailors.—(Hear, hear.) Reserving to himself a perfect independence as to what these proposed Committees might do, he should in the tneantitne vote against the increase, and for diminution. Mr. BUCK observed that the predictions of the lion. Gentleman, made two years ago, that the principles of free trade would secure the prosperity of the country, had not been fulfilled.—(Cheers from Lord G. Batitinck and others.) When these predictions were made, and when those who declined to concur in them were invidi ously described as monopolists, every class in the com munity might be said to have been in a prosperous con dition; whereas now, that those principles had been car ried out, they were steeped in misery.—(Hear.) Mr. C. P. VILLIERS congratulated the Hon. Gen tleman who had just spoken on the disappointment he must have experienced at not finding that the principles of free trade, in accordance with his predictions, had ruined the agriculturists.—(Hear, hear.) That Hon. Gentleman was the advocate of a high price for corn. Now, not only corn, but all provisions had been dearer in 1847 than in previous years, and what was the conse quence ? Why, that there had been a much greater depression of trade.—(Hear, hear.) In his (Mr. Vil liers's) opinion the evil effects of the corn-laws would be Mt for some years to come. The resolutions *ere then agreed to. THE SLAVE TRADE. Mr. HUTT rose to move for a Select Committee to consider the best means which Great. Brite;e eeeld adopt for mitigating the horrors of the slave trade, and providing for its final extinction. The Hon. Member proceeded to observe that he believed this country had uselessly expended 21,000,0001. in endeavours to sup press the slave trade, and were as uselessly adding to that immense expenditure. Instead of suppressing the slave trade, it was now more extensively carried on than before we had made any attempts to suppress it. The papers before the House prove this. It was said that if we were only to increase our squadron on the coast of Africa we would effectually put down the slave trade. He utterly denied it. He believed that if we indulged in all those fancies which obstructed the manu facturing industry of the country, if we deprived the people of the means of education—if, in a word, we poured forth the treasury of England in an attempt to put down the slave trade by force, we should only be adding to its extent and its horrors. Our whole system was, therefore, an error, in attempting to do by force what could only be accomplished by other means. We already knew what difficulties there were in suppressing a contraband trade which produced a profit of 30 per c'ent. How much were those difficulties increased as regarded the slave trade, which offered a profit of 1,000, 1,500, and sometimes, as shown in the case of " Buren v. Denman," of 2,000 per cent. on the coast of Brazil. Excepting that of the United States, he believed there was no Government honestly co-operating with us to put down the slave trade. France had a fleet of twenty-six vessels on the coast of Africa, but they were not vested with sufficient authority to be available for that purpose; and, according to the papers before Parliament, had done less to extinguish that trade than the fleet of the Queen of Portugal. The Hon. Member, having pointed out some of the effects of trade, observed that notwithstanding those effects, ladies of the highest rank, and ministers of religion, as well as persons of the lowest condition in Brazil, were ready to turn the slave-trade into a profitable account. It was absolutely carried on by joint-stock companies, and was looked upon in Brazil as the most thriving branch of commerce. He regretted that the ships in which this trade was carried on were built by the United States, to whom he bad accorded the merit of assisting our endeavours of suppressing the trade, and that amongst those ships was the Agnes, built at Baltimore, and "said to be the property of a Quaker. —(A laugh.) He regretted also that British subjects should, according to the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet (the Member for Tamworth) in 1845, be en gaged in the slave-trade. In 1795 Mr. Pitt said that the number of slaves taken annually from the west coast of Africa amounted to 80,000. In 1820 the African Society stated them in a letter to the Duke of Wellington, at 70,000; and in 1835 Lord J. Russell cal culated that they were not less than 100,000. So that the number in 1835 exceeded by 30 per cent. the num ber reported to the Duke of Wellington in 1820. He took these facts from the parties stating them; but there were ample reasons to believe them true. Other information of a valuable character had been communi cated to the Admiralty by Dr. Bryson, and even the evidence in the blue books, now on the table of the House, showed that the slave-traders bad now introduced vessels of a smaller build, in order the better to be able to carry on their traffic in security. A letter from Mr. Goring, the Consul at Pernambuco, stated that these vessels carried crews varying from 8 to 14 men, but had stowed away on board them from 150 to 300 human beings, without space to lie down or even to stir. This at least showed at what expense to humanity the existing suppression system was carried on. But unhappily the African negroes were not the only persons who suffered —there were besides the subjects of the Crown, the countrymen of every Member ofthe House brought in this vortex of pestilence and death. On the west coast of Africa there were generally from 27 to 30 British ships employed to suppress the traffic in slaves—those ships bearing from 4,000 to 5,000 sailors and marines. This fact was alone sufficient to induce the Legislature to pause be fore it continued its sanction to the existing system of sup pression. The mortality among these crews surpassed all imagination. In one year one ship alone (the Eden) lost, in less than six months, 111 men, out of a crew of 160 men.—(Hear, hear.) In 1837, it pas proved that the mortality averaged 13 per cent; and; besides, there were considerable numbers sent home invalided, with ruined constitutions. Such a destruction of human life. and of health and constitution, ought to induce the House to interfere in rectemmending the Government to with draw the fleet. Turning from this point, he came to another part of the subject well deserving of considera tion on the present occasion—he meant the annual ex pense incurred under the system now practised for sup pressing the slave trade. For several years he had en deavoured to ascertain the exact amount of these expenses. He, as well as the Honourable Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), had moved for many accounts, but had never been able to as certain the extact truth. But, from such materials as he had, he could state the following as the result of careful examination. The annual expense of the squadron em ployed on the west coast of Africa he estimated at 300,000/.• of that on the east coast at 150,0001.; at Sierra Lone, the Gambia, Gold Coast, and other stations, 20,0001.; the Commission Court and super annuation allowances at 25,0001; the bounty to officers and crews for captured slaves, 50,0001.; for bills drawn on account of liberated Africans, 30,000/.; and for mis cellaneous charges, 30,0001.; the whole amount to 650,0001. per annum—which, he contended, was worse than thrown away.—(Hear, hear.) And now he might be asked how, after thus condemning the whole s y stem, he was prepared to deal with this important but truly painful subject of the slave trade? He answered most unequivocally, " Leave the slave trade to itself."—(Hear, hear.) If merchants would engage in it, let the guilt of such a nefarious and unholy traffic rest upon their own heads, and leave them to a higher tribunal than any human ingenuity could erect. He knew it would be stated by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government that if this country withdrew her cruizers from the ' African coast, the stream of slavery would rush forth like a torrent, and that for every man now embarked in that trade, five men would do so. But he (Mr. Hutt) denied the truth and justice of such an inference. He did not believe that if the people of Cuba and the Brazils saw that four-and-a-half millions might be added to their population, and that thereby so great a dispro portion in point of numbers might be created between the white and black population, they would be actuated by a sense of self-preservation, and would endeavour to avert so dire and awful a sacrifice of human life as the history of the island of St. Domingo presented as having arisen from the same cause. There existed, he believed, in the Colonial Office a petition from Cuba im ploring the Imperial Government, in the most earnest and energetic language, to take the necessary steps to stop such an influx as the only means of averting from that community so dire a misery. The same was the case with the Brazils. Let the British Government, then, let Cuba and the Brazils know that, unless they came forward to stop the traffic in slaves, it would be impossible to rescue them from a bloody revo lution, and this would induce them to exercise the powers those countries possessed to prevent the intro duction of slaves.—(Hear, hear.) Finally, he believed that the slave trade was now only kept alive by the ignorant and meddling interference of the British Go vernment—(Hear, hear)—who, if they wished its final extinction, ought to leave it alone. In conclusion t he trusted the House would think that ho bad made out a prima facie case for the Committee for which he now asked.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. JACKSON said that, in rising for the first time to address the House, his apology was that he had for a period of sixteen years been engaged in the commerce carried on with the coast of Africa. On this ground he claimed the indulgence of the House.—(gear, hear.) He rose for the purpose of seconding the motion made by the Hon. Member for Gateshead (Mr. Hutt), and he did so for three reasons, the first of which was that a charge had been brought against the 'nomiees of this country engaged in the traffic between the wi e. apt of Africa and England. The Hon. Member seemed Lts infer that the British merchants had, to a certain extent, a guilty knowledge of Lthe nefarious transactions car ried on on the African coast. Now he (Mr. Jackson), in connexion with his late partner, had carried on, while in business, commercial transactions between Liverpool and every river and almost every creek on the west coast of Africa; with Sierra Leone, the Gallinas, Cape at. John, the Gold Coast, Bonney, New and Old Ca- Inbar. Longo, down to the Cape of Good Hope; and he could say that not one individual was ever a party to any transaction connected s%ith slavery. On the con trary, he had no hesitation in stating th it no parties its this country had done more to extirpate slavery than had the British merchants engaged in the trade ant: commerce carried on with the westeru coast of Afri,ei.— (Hear, hear.) In support of this statement, he (Mr. Jackson) had only to state one single fact. 'The gen tleman with whom he (Mr. Jackson) had been connected as a partner thought fit, as a matter not of philanthropy, but of pounds, shillings, and pence, finding that the slave trade interfered with the legitimate commerce, to send out a vessel on a voyage of discovery to go from port to port, from river to river, from bay to bay, in order to ascertain by what means and commodities the slave dealers purchased their slaves; to bring back samples of the goods bartered for slaves, and to see if the natives, by a system of direct commerce, could not be induced to use their slave labour at hk..me in cultivating the produce of theircountry to exchange for British manufactures. And what had been the result ? The vessel went out on her voyage of discovery and brought home samples of the goods with which the Brazilians paid for slaves, and it was found that nine-tenths of these goods were of British manu facture. And upon this what had he and his partner done ? Why, they fitted out a ship freighted with exactly the same articles, and sent her to the strenghol3 —the very nest of the slave trade—and during the whole time she was there, and as long as her hatches were open, the goods went in exchange for produce, end they got their ship filled with a cargo of palm oil, while the operations of every slave ship, having on board the same description of manufactured goods, were wholly sus pended.—(Hear, hear) This was evidence that the natives would willingly open a legitimate trade, and he contended that the existing system for the suppression of the slave trade had proved an entire failure. Nay, more, he was prepared to show that since the abolition of slavery by this country more misery had been suffered by those whom it was intended to benefit and protect than had existed before philanthropists had achieved that object.—(Hear.) He said this after an experience of 16 years ; and although he was not accustomed to public speaking, he must state his views on a question to which he had long given his whole heart and soul.— (Hear.) Speaking from experience, and information subsequently acquired, he felt convinced that this coun try was doing wrong in persisting in the mode in which the present relations with Africa were conducted—be considered that to a certain extent this country was in error in endeavouring to prevent a traffic between the West India islands and the western coast of Africa. On the western coast he knew full well that a supply of free labour could be obtained to any amount. The price of a slave on the coast was about 41.; to plant him in the West India islands would involve a cost of 41. 10s., and alt that the negro would ask as a condition for his trans mission was that he should have the protection of the British flag, and be guaranteed being returned to his native land after- his period of service was completed. Whenever any of his ships had entered an African river not less than twenty or thirty canoes, each containing twenty or thirty negroes, put off, anxious to work for one dollar a month, for periods extending from one month, or monsoon, as they called it, to 36 monsoons. This information he derived from men who had been in Africa for periods extending from three to 22 years, all of whom declared that the amount of free labour to be obtained in Africa was unlimited; and hence he had come to the conclusion that if the Government would do away with the existing foolish preventive service on that coast, and allow labour to be exported as free as possible to the West, India islands, free labour could be afforded at one-twentieth of the expense incurred by the Brazils for slave labour, Hence, if they wished to exterminate slavery they ought to encourage the ex portation of free labour to the West Indies, where a negro could be delivered for 4/. 10s. while it would cost the Brazils 100/.—(Hear.) But the merchants of this country had not been supported in the way they ought to have been. He was sure the House would bear with him while he mentioned one instance to prove that as• sertion. In 1839 or 1840 the Government had thought fit to send a squadron to the coast of Africa under the command of Captain Tucker, a man highly respected, against whose private character nothing could be raised. Captain Tucker went out with certain instructions, to the effect that he might negotiate with the native chiefs and kings, with a view to prevent any internal slave trade being carried on within their respective territories. On the full faith of these instructions Capt. Tucker entered the River Bonny, and made a treaty with the king for the abolition of the slave trade in his dominions. That treaty was witnessed by seventeen masters of British merchant ships trading there for palm oil, and it was ratified, so far as ratification could there take place. The King acceded to the terms of that treaty, and was to receive 10,000 dollars per annum for three years, on condition of his foregoing the profits he had derived from the slave trade. For this amount he drew a bill upon the Treasury, which one of his (Mr. Jackson's) agents took in payment for his cargo of goods, but when it was presented to the Treasury payment was refused. In two other cases the same thing had been done, and thus tho Government had dishonoured the act of their own officer and agent, who had carried out the instruc tions with which he had been charged.—(Hear, hear.) his partner and himself had, however, acted with more philanthropy than the Government, and had thought it better that they should suffer than that the cha racter of the British nation should incur a stain, and if necessary he could present to the House the very bills drawn in consequence of the treaty to which he had referred—bills which had been noted for dis honour, and which were not yet paid.—(Hear, hear.) With such a proceeding as this how was it possible to expect that the African princes would proceed in the furtherance of the abolition of the slave trade ? (Hear, hear.) He would, however, mention, another instance of a similar description. A gentleman of the highest character—now filling the office of Mayor of Liverpool—had had one of his ships seized on the coast of Africa, under the pretence, because there were on board a few extra water-casks, that the vessel was en gaged in the slave trade. These casks had only been taken in to add additional comfort to the ship's com pany; and yet this gentleman was without redress, and was suffering not merely pecuniary loss, but under the reflection of being charged with having promoted the slave trade. But this Was quite in keeping, for ever since the Committee which sat in 1140 a dead set had been made against the merchants of Liverpool. And what was the fact? Why, when he (Mr. Jackson) first entered into the African trade, in the year 1826, the trade in palm oil and other produce was quite overlooked then, as now, by the British Government. That trade had increased, and might be still further increased, if the superabundant population of Africa was convoyed, as free labourers, for a term specified, to the West India islands. By this means the negro la bourers would acquire information in the cultivation of the soil, in the culture of cotton, and would return to their native land with the knowledge thus acqaired ; and h enc e, instead of a trade of 1,000,0001. per annum, a commerce of 10,000,0001. per annum might be created between this country and the African coast.—(Hear, hear.) If the House would direct its attention to in crease the commerce with the coast of Africa, it would improve the resources of this country, and at the same t i me do away with the cruelties and curse of the slave trade. He was sorry to detain the House, hut he felt strongly on this subject. He knew the country. He had lost two brothers-in law in Africa. Many friends had gone there who had never returned, and another friend had returned who had been up the interior of the country, nearly 300 miles, at a factory or depository for goo d s; his firm was established, and they had, in their relations with the black population, when based on good faith and honesty, found the same return.—(Hear, hear.) theno not state kn is know anY men more intelligent, whichcon they were born, or more dsnie(eiseirroiau did g s of obtaining knowledge or becoming acquainted with trade and traffic, and of approaching civilisation, than of the African population. Some years ago he re membered sending out a vessel with 1,000 barrels of gunpowder and 10,000 muskets, but the very next voyage the same ship took out 1,5001. worth of house hold furniture. On one river to which he had traded, the population, male and female, had been found to lire in a state of nudity. After a time they girded a piece of cloth round their loins; but now the men were to be seen wearing jackets and trousers.—(Hear, and a laugh.) This might be all very amuain."; bat it was a fact which showed that the efforts made by British merchants had not been misdirected, but had tended to civilisation; and he was satisfied, if the present squadron was removed from the coast—if free trade in labour, without any foolish restrictions, was established—a death-blow would be given to the slave -trade and the cruelties worse and civilisation than d the h a o d r v r a o n r c s e o d f t t h h e e r e m b y i d dle better p a st ah ga en, by the presence of a fleet of 10, 000 ships , with 10,000,000 of men to man them.—(Hear, hear.) Sir B. IL INGLIS admired the remarkable speech of the Hon. Member who had just sa t d own , a s p eec h which had been received with the attention it well deserved; but he could not refrain from asking whether he had misapprehended the Hon. Member i n res p ec t of one of his many propositions for ridding Africa of its and at Membert the same tim a providing for the West India ands. It appeared t o hi m (Si r R. H. W Inglis) n r present that s ' an the Ha seemed to think that the panacea for the wrongs of Africa and for the distresses existing in the West Indies was the removal from the former to the latter of a certain number of the population by purchase; in other words, wag not his proposition really a slave trade for three or a specified number of years ?—(No, no.) Then he would sit down until the Hon. Member had an opportunity of setting him right, if he was in error. Mr. JACKSON, in explanation, said the Hon. Member for the University of Oxford had misunderstood him. He (Mr. Jackson) had stated that, from his ex perience, he knew there was an abundance of free labour to be obtained on the coast of Africa. That, as soon as his vessels had appeared off the coast, twenty or thirty canoes, with as many able negroes on board each, came off to them clamorous for employment, and eager to be engaged at a dollar per month wages, and to bo fed upon rice and any refuse on board for any number of months. Their great desire was, to be under the protection of the British flag ; and these men bad ever been found to be faithful, industrious, willing to serve even to the death, and had never hesitated to come to England when their services were required in consequence of the crew being required by her Majesty's ships to make up for deaths, desertions, and other casualties. All they asked was, that, after the expiration of their period of service, they should be brought back to their own country. And he meant to say that, with the consent of the Government, he would undertake to plant at the West India Islands, at a cost of 41. 10s. each, free labourers who should work for two, three, or four years, at the rate of a dollar a month, provided they wore promised to be returned with the produce of their savings back to their own native coasts.—(Hear, hear.) Sir H. H. INGLIS was glad he had afforded the Hun. Member an opportunity of making this explana tion. All that he meld say was, that, without denying EVANINGI rEnnuAar fOVj 1646. the statements of the Hon. Member ' who spoke ep p trendy almost from a pc rson al kno.vledge, those who ;It on the Committee three or' four years as on 'lle subject of the West Coast of Africa had not the nefit of the lien. Meeeb - x's inforlrati; n on the se'tj et of free labour—a matter on which many Hon. Members eq)eeifilly desired to be informed. Howeve,T, in no !higle instance had the Committee received such testimony as that which to-night had been adduced. Passing from the speech of the lien. Melchor, he (Sir R. IL Inglis) came to that of the proposer of the present motion. The Eon, Member for Geteshead (Mr. Hutt) had raised a running fire against those whom he desig nated as spurious philanthropists, and had Attacked every Government down to that which now held office. This was scarcely necessary, when the Hon. Member had no reason to expect that his motion would be op. posed.—(Hear, hear.) He admitted, with deep pain, that all our effects for the suppression of the slave trade had tended only to aggravate the evil.—(Hear, hear.) Still, it was not less the duty of Englend to free herself from the guilt of the system; and it h.id never been alleged that we had intentionally aggravated its evils. The nation had made a just though tardy reparation for the crimes of its predecessors; and though ethers con tinued to follow the example which England had se long set, this country was not blameable for t wit. The evideuce of all naval officers examined by the Commission concurred in stating, that an effective blockade must repress the slave trade; they agreed that by increasing the number of ships, the remedy was in our own bands. We were very scrupulous of the loss of life in the Niger or on the African coast; but when the question was the pro-. teetion of a valuable colony in the West Indke, fL et , were sent without scruple to the most pestilential climate Between 1792 and 1802 it had been eetineeed that the Iris of life in the navy employed in the West Indies amounted to 100,000. It was clear that the Honourable Member aho moved for this Committee was anxious to do away with the blockade, and though the motion could not be complained of, the language indulged in had been such as to foster the prejudices already existing on this subject. Fifteen or sixteen years ago, the people of England united as one man, and expended 20,000,000 E for the extinction of slavery; and it was not to be be lieved that they had sow become so indifferent as to allow the slave trade to take its course. He did not believe that to save a penny a pound in sugar, the people of this country would consent to continue the sufferings of the inhabitants of Africa; and they were in effect doing this by the late free trade measures with reference to colonial produce.—(Hear, hear.) He did not wish to oppose the motion. Mr. MIME considered the speech of the llonourable Member fir Newcastle as the most effective ever de livered on this subject.—(Hear, hear.) lie trusted its influence would be very far extended. The Honourable Member for Gateshead had been blamed for some of the details he had employed, but how was the question to be rightly understood unless all the facts were laid before the House ? He denied the right of this country to interfere with others which still sanctioned the slave trade ; the principle was a wrong one, and had already led us into serious difficulties with other countries. When such interference was attempted by Lord Aber deen with the United States of America, Mr. Calhoun promptly told him to mind his own business.—(Hear, hear.) So much for the principle of our interference ; its want of success was most remarkable, and such as ought to induce us to retrace our course. Talk of an adequate force—the First Lord of the Admiralty had declared that the whole British fleet would be inadequate for the purpose.—(Hear, hear.) At present slavery was not prevented ; for out of every six men taken from Africa, four or five were destroyed on the passage, owing to the exertions of our blockading squadron. If the House wished to put down slavery, let them adopt the course recommended by the Hon. Member for New castle ; let the West India colonies have free access to Africa for labourers, which might bo obtained at 4/ 103. per head.—(Hear, hoar.) If 'this Committee were ap pointed, it would be proved beyond doubt that all our past efforts for the suppression of the slave-trade had been abortive, and had not promoted the cause of humanity. This cause alone, putting pounds, shillings, and pence out of the question, ought to induce us to remove the African squadron.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. CARDWELL agreed in much that had fallen from the Right Hon. Member for Oxford. Though the existing blockade might involve the loss of many valuable lives on the African coast, and might even render un settled our relations with some other Powers, this would not be sufficient to condemn the system in the estimation of the country ; but if, in addition, it appeared that it was utterly ineffectual for the humane purposes which it was meant to answer, then the House might well con sider whether it should be longer upheld.—(Hear, hear.) If one thing was more clear than another it was this— that neither on the ground of trade, on.the ground of our naval expenditure, on the ground of a just consideration for our officers and men, nor on the great ground of humanity, which had led us into that unsuccessful enter prise, was the status quo of the slavery question satisfac tory to the House and the country.—(llear, hoar.) If it was so admittedly unsatisfactory, what course, then, ought the Legislature to take ? The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir It. Inglis) said it ought not to be abandoned. But, surely, the operation of the system ought to be thoroughly inquired into by a Committee, and this was the course which had been proposed by the Hon. Nlera tier for Gateshead, in the motion which he had brought forward, seconded, as it had been, in so remarkable a speech by the Hon. Member for Newcastle.—(Hear, hear.) One part of the question bad not yet been pro minently brought before the House. The Hon. Member for Newcastle, after the graphic narrative which he had given of the operation of the blockade, had been asked by the Right lion. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis) whether his trade with the African coast had net derived benefit from the presence of the blockading squadron. Had the Hon. Member for Newcastle had the right of reply, he would probably have stated, speaking from his six teen years' experience, that the trade sustained rather a disadvantage from the existence of the blockade.— (Hear, hear.) The late lamented Sir Fowell Buxton had towards the close of his life, proposed a mode by which he thought the slave trade might be more effectually suppressed. Why, he recommended that wo should en courage to as great an extent as possible a lesitimato trade with the west coast of Africa. This recommendation, however, was very far from b"ing carried out by the pre sent-system, which, instead of encouraging a legitimate trade in that quarter, operated as a positive impediment to it. 'rho Honourable Member gave, as an illustration of this position, the history of the condemnation by the Mixed Court of Commission, at Losnde, of the Liver pool brig Lady Sale, which was seized by the Portuguese brig Constitucao, as a slaver, for no other reason than that she had on board, fur the purposes of legitimate commerce, a quantity of staves and boiling pots, and water, which she had taken in as the only available ballast, in place of a cargo of rice which she had just disposed of on the coast. Previous to her seizure by the Portuguese brig, she had been visited by several British vessels, and pronounced free from all suspicion. She was, however, condemned at Loanda, and the highly respectable owners, Messrs. Horsefall, of Liverpool, thus sustained an actual loss of between 5,0001. and 6,000/., and to this day had got no compensation, though their full innocence of the charge on pretence of which their vessel was confiscated, had been admitted by the fact that when the crew of the vessel, after having been sent home to England as prisoners on a charge of felony, surrendered at the Thames Police.offiee, they were discharged by Mr. Ballantine, and informed there was no charge against them.—(Hear, hear.) He did net mention the matter as impeaching the conduct of the Noble Lord opposite, but as a -striking illustration of the manner in which the System operated as an impediment to that legitimate trade with the west coast of Africa, which could alone put an end to the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) _ _ . . Viscount PALM ERSTON had already informed his Hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead that it was not at all his intention to oppose the appointment of the Committee he sought.—(Hear, hear.) He quite con curred hs what seemed to be the general opinion of the House, that it was fitting an inquiry should take place on the system which was now pursued for the purpose of effecting the suppression and abolition of the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) If there prevailed in any por tion of the public, or any portion of the House, an opinion that the measures hitherto adopted had not succeeded as they ought to have done in accomplishing the purposes for which they were designed, that in itself was a sufficient ground on which to demand a Committee to inquire into the causes which had pre vented that success, and into the methods more calcu lated to effect success. He therefore fully concurred in the Hon. Gentleman's motion. He could not, however, so fully concur in the statements and arguments on which his Hon. Friend had founded the motion s for, with all deference to the: Lion. Gentleman, he must be allowed to express the opinion that there had been great exaggeration in those statements, and great fallacies in those arguments. It was said that we had not succeeded in putting the slave trade down.—(Hear.) Undoubtedly we had not, but it was a great mistake to suppose that the methods which had been pursued had not been successful in diminishing that trade to a very considerable extent—(Hear, hear)—and even the statements and arguments of the Hon. Gentleman himself tended manifestly and clearly to prove that to this extent the efforts which this country had made had not been unattended with success.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman quoted numbers. He said that the number of negroes heretofore imported into America had amounted to 50,000, 70,000 (Mr. F. Buxton's statement had gone as high as 100,000) per annum, whereas he admitted that at present the number was only between 40,000 and 50,000. To account for the incon sistency which he saw in his own statements, the lion. Gentleman had affirmed that an equal number was lost on the passage, whereas it was pretty tolerably ascer tained that the proportion lost on the passage, instead of being, as the lion. Member thought, 100 per cent., was in point of fact only between 12 and 16 per cent. One fact was quite clear, that, doubtless owing to our exer tions, the supply in America fell far short of the de mand. In no other way could :the enormous profit of , the slave importer-2,000 per cent., it was stated, on his outlay—be accounted for. Remove the restrictions we imposed, and it seemed tolerably clear that the supply would very speedily equal the demand. He begged the House to bear in mind, when complaint was made of the futility of our eftbrts, that it was only within the past few years that these efforts had been placed on a proper footing, for it was not until 1839 that we obtained the right of due control over vessels under the Portuguese or Brazilian flag.—(hear.) He was quite ready to admit that a maritime police alone would not suffice to put down the slave trade—(Hear, hear)—but he could not admit that our maritime police had had the effect of aggravating the horrors of the middle passage. However atrocious the sufferings now undergone by the negroes, in the course of that passage, a full parallel for the worst of those sufferings could bo adduced from the statements made by Fox, Wilberforce, and other orators, in the debates which brought about the abolition of the free trade in our own possessions. Now, he was prepared to admit that a maritime police was not alone sufficient to swot t h e p ur p ose e t eappeaaalng entirely tEs alaie trade ; on the coast of Africa. Bat before he proceeded further he rawt deny the truth of the allegations upon which his ! Hon. Friend the M:.:nber foe Montreee hrel declared isepreetione to he founded, that the meritime police of England exercised an al bitrery power over the vessels of foreign eetions, which was extremely hateful to them, ! and which created frequent occasions for coming into hostile collisisn with them. The maritime police was founded on 'mutual treaties entered into between Eugland and foreign powers, by which, whenever that police en countered a ves3el under the flag of those powers, a license was given to visit it, and to see that no contraven tion of the treaty was committed. Therefore it was act right ie his Hon. Friend to say that other nations had complained of the conduct of England under that treaty. The visits of the maritime police of England to the ships of foreign powers were made under the sanction of treaties, and vi hen the United States ea presserl a wish to withdraw her vessels from the opers tion of those visits which France had never given her consent to, the Government of England at once acceded to those demands, and the power of search had only been exercised in those cases where England was still entitled under existing treaties to enforce it. With re gard to the effect which had been produced I.y the ma ritime police upon the slave trade on the coast ot Array., he learned by the last accounts from Cuba that during the last two years, 1346 aed 1347, there had be, n scarcely any importation of slaves into that island, and it could not be discovered that m.re than 2,000 slaves in each year bud been imported. thither. The Govern meet could not rely implicitly upon the accuracy of this statement, but it was made upon the same authority that had been credited on former ocenaione, ishea it was learned that a large importation of slaves had taken place at Cuba; and it the truth had been toll in the larger amount of slaves imported, he ,saw no reason to conclude otherwise that, that he was justified in crediting the statement that the number of imported slaves were now less. Ir the undiminished produce and export of sugar was adduced as a reason for thinking that the supply of slaves was still kept up, he must in reply observe that there had been a considerable transfer of slave labour from the tobacco cultivation to that of sugar which was more profitable, and that circumstance would account for the nore diminution of the sugar crop of Cuba. With respect to the Brazils, he was ready to admit that the supply of slaves from the coast of Africa was still great, but not so great as in former years. It had been urged by the Hon. Member for Gateshead that it was impossible to put a stop to that trade by the maritime police, because of the enormous profits that attended it. In Cuba, he had reason to believe there was a diminution in the number of slaves imported, because Spain had insisted on the Governor of that island carrying out the treaty. He believed that if in Brazds the same - course had been followed, the law would have been equally efficacious against the trading in slaves. How was it that England had abolished slavery in her colonies? Because the law was rigorously enforced that prohibited it; and if in British colonies the law had proved efficacious, why should it not prove equally so in Spain and the Brazils, if enforced with the same rigour ? But he returned to the admission he had already made, that the maritime police; was not sufficient in itself to sup press the slave trade on the coast of Africa. That great achievement must be effected by the reinforce ment brought by other foreign nations to the cause, and by their rigorous observaace of good faith in their treaties. There were now only two outstanding powers, within whoselimits slaves from the coast of Africa were still permitted to be imported, namely, Spain arid the Brazils. He agreed in most of the arguments udvat ced by the Hon. Member for Gateshead, in support of his assertion, that it was by means of legitimate commerce that the slave trade on the coast of Africa would be destroyed. But he differed with the Hon. Member on one assertion advanced by him, namely, that legitimate commerce would destroy the alive trade. Now he felt bound to assert, that the numerous reports respecting the coast of Africa proved precisely a contrary result to that predicted by the Hon. Member. Those reports were unanimous in stating that the legitimate commerce of the coast of Africa was destroyed by the existence of the slave trade, and that the only means of reviving that commerce wits by destroying the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) But even the allegations sup plied by the Hon. Member did not warrant the con clusion he had drawn. For if great Britain with drew her cruisers from the coast of Africa, he (Lord Palmerston) should like to know what would become of the legitimate traders in palm oil and ground nut oil? Ile would venture to say they would at once be driven from the coast, and that a swarm of slavers and et pirates would immediately take the place or the maritime police, and render the coast too dangerous to be fre quented by traders, whilst at the same time it would be found that all traces of civilisation amongst the Africans would be swept away—that the trousers and jackets now worn by some amongst them would be cast aside, and the natives would appear in their:original state of nudity, whilst all the exertions made by the benevolent and high-minded men whose efforts had been exerted in their favour would have been made in vain, whilst England would incur the disgrace of having been the author of scenes of barbarity which were sufficient to make huma nity shudder. The Government had endeavoured to encourage legitimate commerce on the coast of Africa, and one of the methods adopted had proved eminently successful. Treaties had been entered into with the native chiefs, binding them to offer every resistance against the slave trade and against all European settlers engaged in it, and giving power to the French and English cruisers—for France and England were most intimately bound up in this effort—to land their crews and to destroy any barracoons which might have been erected within their territories for the reeeption of slaves against the terms of those fteaties. He was happy to say, though the Hon. Member forGateshead had not given the Government due credit, that there was no ground for the imputation which he had cast upon France in regard to the slave-trade suppressiun.—(llear.) It was the object of the two Governments to multiply the treaties of which he had spoken with the native African chiefs ; and he hoped that ultimately they would be enabled to encircle the whole coast of Africa with a net-work of these engagements, so that they would thereby be en abled to strike a blow at the root of African slavery by inducing the chiefs to betake themselves to legitimate commerce, instead of destroying that commerce by en couraging the skive trade. This system of treaties, coupled with that of the cruisers off the coast, bad proved the best method of suppressing the slave trade, and that best adapted for the purpose. E,sery year that now passed over rendered it more and itnre unlikely that the slave trade should ever be abolished. It had been said that there was a great mortality amongst the officers and crews of the vessels engaged on the African coast. In former years he admitted the fact was so. But the latent accounts he had received from Sir C. Hotham stated that the crews of the vessels were as healthy as those employed on any other station; and, therefore, ho (Lord Palmerston) thought that those objections which were founded on the anxiety for the health of the offi cers and seamen engaged in suppressing the slave trade might fairly be dismissed from the minds of Hon. Mem bars. When the Committee had commenced its inqui ries, it might be found that the Hon. Member for Gates head had not taken the most politic course possible in making the speech ho had uttered. He (Lord Palmer ston) certainly had not expected such a speech, as the Hon. Member know beforehand that the Committee would be granted. But he did hope that, when the Com mittee came to examine the subject, it would be found that the method adopted for suppressing the slave trade was not altogether so ineffectual as hail been stated. If any other more effectual method of putting a stop to it could be suggested, no one would receive that informa tion with greater satisfaction than himself. There was one result which he most earnestly hoped would not at tend the labours of the Committee—namely, that it should recommend to the House to withdraw the naval forces from the African coast. England bad been the first to engage in the slave trade, and that more fully than any other nation, both in buying slaves and in encouraging their sale. England had been the first to retrace her steps and to endeavour to expiate her guilt. For many years past all her greatest statesmen, all her most enlightened and must iirtuous citizens, had been unanimous in labouring, by means of treatise with other nations, and by making every self-sacrifice, to expiate the guilt of their country by extinguishing the crime of slave dealing. They had succeeded in prevailing on France, on the Netherlands, in nearly all the Spanish possessions, and in Portugal, in bringing about the legal extinction of this slave trade. Brazil was almost the only remaining offender, and he (Lord Palmerston) thought, that if the nation persevered in the effort, and did not withdraw from it in idle levity, success would still be within its reach, and by some additional means being resorted to, the . great object sought for would ultimately be attained. It might be very well for those who did not think deeply on the subject to measure its importance by the number of pounds sterling which it annually cost the nation ; but looking at the question as one affecting a nation, and regarding it not as a topic of the day, but as on e which would form one in the history of nations, h e would affirm to the House that if England should suc ceed in abolishing the most atrocious crime of slave dealing, he knew of nothing that had been accomp li s h e d by any nation recorded in the history of mankind that could in any way compare with so glorious an achieve ment. And if the destinies of nations were governed or affected, as were those of individuals, by their con duct, or by the benefits whi c h th ey accomp li s h e d , h e thought it might be proved by mathematical demon stration, that even taken as a matter of profit and loss, England could, under no circumstances, be a loser by the course she had pursued in respect to the slave trade. Lord G. BENTINCK said that his Noble Friend had referred to the small number of slaves imported into Cuba during the l as t t wo ye a rs, b u t h e h a d omit ted to inform the House that 60,000 slaves had been imported during the last year into the Brazils. If the committee would only call before it for examination one of the parties who were concerned in the African slave• trade, a darker picture of the horrors of that traffic would be obtained than ho had any power of giving. The Noble Lord proceeded to contend that the greater portion of the sufferings endured by the slaves during their conveyance from the coast of Africa to the Bra zils was occasioned by the British and other cruisers employed in the preventive service. He could not let the speech of the Noble Lord pass without making those few observations. Captain PECIIELL hoped that the Noble Lord did net mean to charge want of diligence OR the part of our cruisers on the coast of Africa. Or did he mean to pro pose a seizure of the island of Cuba as a means of putting an end to the slave trade? But had not the Noble Lord been a supporter of the Government which had done away with the right of search?—(Hear, hear.) M s Hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead had endeavoured to enlist the sympathies of the House , by his picture of the mortality on the coast of Africa. But was there no mortality in Hong-Kong, Chusan, and in the West Indies? British sailors never shrunk from their duty on account of climate. Let them but have their just rights, reesque‘reassesa - *nd the ruche *bleb tad hatli eote-d Wig ment, and there would be no difficulty in mann no ships for the coast of Africa. He must say that, is his o , r ,inion, the manner in which our cruisers performed their duty was worthy of the best thanks of that Howe. The Honourable Member for Gateshead had raid that the Americans were our only sincere friends itt putting down the slave trade. But whit was the fact ? Nine-tenths of the versels employed in the slave trade were built in Virginia and Baltimore.—(Hear, hear.) He never eculd believe the United States sincere so long as they slowed such proceedings to be carried on.— (Eiaar, hear.) The mortality on board our cruisers bad very much abated since we had colonised the island of Ascension, and had provided vessels suited to the climate and service. He believed that any remissness on the part of the F quadron had arisen, not from want of zeal OR the part of the officers or men, but from the unhandsome conduct of the British Gi,vertiment and that Howe. Lord C. HAMILTON road a report from the Haven nah show ng that the slave trade had almost wholly ceased in the island of Cuba in 184 G, and contended that this result had bean brought about by the treaties effected by the late Government. Ho feared that in spite of the iminc%se sacrifices we hal made, the statq in which we had left cur own colonies K ould be a beacon to warn :oroigu countries from following our example in abolish ing the slave trade. Lord 1101111131 exilegaed Lis gratification at the culo,tiunis which had been passed upon his gallant re lativi in charge of the 4quadron cn the coast of Africa. —(Hear, hoar.) He would not attempt to describe tho difficulties or responsibiloies of the command. Mr. GLADSTONE had understood the Noblello to s:y, that not more than 2,0(0 dares annually had be( imported into Cuba. He should be glad to know do to what [et iod his accounts came? Viscount PALMERS'FON said the reports caw down to the cnd of 1846. The accounts of 1847 antici pated that at the close of that year the number imported would be about the same. Mr. GLADSTONE—Then the reports art, in effect, down to 1847. Viscount I'ALMERSTON replied in the affirmative. Mr. WARD, before the debate closed, desired to bear his testimony to the excellent state of the squadron under Sir Charles Ilotham's command. Never was there a squadron in better condition, and the health of the officers and seamen was admirable. During the lad year, also, he had the gratification of stating that their success had been commensurate with their efforts, and that the return of vessels captured was most sails" factory. Mr. 'WTI' replied. and the motion was agreed to. MAGISTRATES BILLS. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL nominated the follow. ing Members to form the Select Committee on th. " Magistrates" Bills: The Attorney-General, Mr. Henley, Mr. Clifford, Sir J. Pakington, Mr. Langston, Mr. Cripps, Mr. Wrighton, Mr. R. Palmer, and Sir J. Guest. Captain PECHELL complained that be could find no clause in the3e Bills on the subject of holding magis trates' meetings in public-houses. He understood that to be the object of the Bills. Mr. PARKER—You do not oppose the nomination? Captain PECHELL—Oh, no.—(A laugh.) The Committee was appointed. SUPPLY. _ _ The report of the Comm i ttee of Supply was brought up. Colonel SIBTHORP said that he did not know when the proper opportunity would he, but it was his inten tion to take objection hereafter to the •ote of 39,0001. for secret service money, which, in the present state of affairs, he did not think at all proper. —(Hear.) The House adjourned et twenty minutes after Twelve, PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. (From the Votes and Proeeedings of Me House of Commons.) TUESDAY, FEB. 22. MACCLESFIELD WATERWORKS ANJ IMPROVE. AIEN r BILL. Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Bill be now read a second time :"—Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day six mouths:" Question put, " That the word now' stand part of the Question." The House divided:— MINORITY-AYES, 30. Archdall, Captain Cochrane, A. illidyart, R. C. Arkwright, George Cocks, 1 homas S. Lindsay, Colonel Arundel, Earl of Colebrooke, Sir T. Mackenzie, W. F. Bennet. P. Collolly, Cul. Newry, Viscount Boldero, Henry Cripps, William Patten, J. W. Bremrldge, Richard Duncuft, Johu Sandans, George Buller, Sir J. Y. Dunne, Francis P. Waddington, David Buxton, Sir E. Forbes, William Waddington. H. S. Carew, W. P. Greene Thomas TkLIJOIL9. Christy, Samuel Hamilton, G. A. Egerton, W. T. Cobbold, Johu C. Herbert, Henry A. ToUcinitehe, John MAJORITY-NOES, 103. Anderson, Arthur GodsOn, R. Pechell, Captain Ansley, Thomas C. Granger, T. C. Power, Dr. Bagsha s , John Greene, Joh A Pugh, David Bailey, Joseph Grosvenor, Lord 11, Raphael, Alexander Barnard, E. G. Hall, Sir B. Mee, E. It. Bellew, It. H. Hardcasile, J. A. Russell, F. C. 11. Birch, Sir Thomas Ilastio, Alexander i..‘alwey, Colonel Blake, M. J. Hustle, Archibald Schaleneld, William 1 Bowles, Admiral Heathcoat, John Scully, Francis ... Bright, John . Henry, Alexander Seymour, Lord FrJtherton, Joseph 11111, Lord M. Sheridan, It. B. Brown, Humphrey Hope, Sir J. Sidney, Thomas Brown, W. Humphery, Ald. Spooner, Richard Burke, Sir T. J. Inglis, Sir It. H. Stanley, B. __ .. Callaghan, D. Jackson, William Stanley, Edward Cobden, R. Kershaw, Janus Stuart, Lord D. Cntwibrci, W. S. Langston, J. li. Sullivan, Michael Cubittt, William Lascelles, W. S. Talbot, J. H. Da,kt, Sir IL Lemon, Si? Charles Thompson, Colonel Denison, J. E. Lushington, Charles 'I hompson, Georg* Devercux, John T. )I•Gregor, John Thoruely, T. IA vett E 31eagher, Thomas Turner, E. Dodd, G. Drummond, Tr. Marahr.ll, J. G. Tynte, Charles Matheson. James _ _ Vane, Lord H. . _ Duncan, Viscount Maule, Fox Wall, C. 11. Duncan, George Molesworth, Sir W. Walmsley, Sir J. Ellice, Edward Mulgrave,,,Barl Weathead, J. P. Elliot, John E. Nugent, sir Percy , Willoughby, Sir H. Evans, Sir De Lacy O'Brien, Timothy Wood, W. P. Swart, William O'Connor, Feargus Wrightson, W. B. Fagan, William O'Flaherty, Anthony Wyld. James Foley, John li. Ord, W. Wyvill, Marmaduke Fordyce, A. 1). Osborne, Ralph .._. . ._ . . TELLERS. .. . _ . .. . raget, Lord Itrocklehurst, John Glyn, George Carr Paulson, James Williams, John PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS. (From the Votes and Proceedingg vi the Home of Commons.) TUESDAY, FED. 22. The following Railway Bills were ordered to be broughtin:--_. Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire (Station at Sheffield and Branch to the Sheffield Canal). North Staffordshire (Deviation at Willington). Great Western Railway (Extension of the Berks and Hants Railway from Hungerford to Westbury, with a Branch to Devises). Shropshire Union Railways and _Canal (Extension of Time, &c.) South Wales (Amendment of Acts). Vale cf Neath (Power to the South Wales Railway Company to subscribe, and Amendment of Acts). Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton (No. crease of Capital). Cornwall (Powers for the Great Western Railway Com pany and other Companies to increase their Sub scriptions). Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton (No. 2—Devi ation of Line, and Power to Shrewsbury and Bir mingham, and Birmingham. Wolverhampton, and Dudley Railway Companies to contribute and make Arrangements). Chester and Holyhead (Power to purchase, &c.) Great Western (Branch from Slough to Windsor). Midland (Alteration of the Line and Branches near Wellingborough, and Approach to the Wellingbo rough Station). North Staffordshire (Ashbourne Branch and Approach to Congleton Station). Norfolk (Amendment of Acts and Extension of Time for commencing Reedham and Diss Branches). North British (No. 2—Junction with the Leith Branch of the Edinburgh and Dalkeith Railway, &o.) North British (No. I—lncrease and Division of Capital). Kendal and Windermere Act Amendment. Leeds Etta Thirsk (Alteration of Levels of Leeds and Hartlepool Railway in Eagle:A:lde, Preston, and Stock ton, &c.) Glasgow, Paisley, and Greenock (Amendment and Branches, &c.) Edinburgh and Perth (from North Queensferry to the Scottish Central Railway, with Branches, &c.) Great Western (to confer additional Powers on the Company with reference to the Purchase of the Bir mingham and Oxford Junction, &c., Railways). Great Western (Loop Line from the Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway through Leamington). Birmingham and Oxford Junction (Deviation from Leamington to Warwick). Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction (Central Junction Branch). Dunfermline and Queensferry. Ant.—On the morning of Friday last at publics breakfast was given to J. S. Buckingham, Esq., in this town, at which a large number of the most respectable families, ladies and gentlemen, attended. Mr. Bucking ham was also presented with the freedom of the town, as a mark of the value set by them on his literary and philanthropic labours.—British Banner. STORY OF THE PENINSULAR WAR.—The English public have at length before them what has long been a desideratum—a complete History of the Peninsular War in a single volume, forming the important precursor to the " Story of the Battle of Waterloo," to which last• mentioned period its able editor has brought it down by the addition of four entirely new chapters. This work will now claim attention as one of the most faithful histories of our tremendous struggles and glorious vie. tories in the Peninsula, with all their fearful chant°• teristics, wild adventures, and terrific sieges. The pub lication is extremely well timed—we needed such a book as this—says tbo United Service Gazette--one that could give to the rising generation a clear notion of the important events which led to the expulsion of the French from Spain and Portugal. The present edition, published at so moderate a coat as to be accessible to all classes, will, no doubt, become generally popular, and be found in every library in the kingdom. It is illustrated with six portraits and a valuable map. DANIEL O'Connux, ESQ.—An absurd rumour ha* been circulated for some days with regard to Mr. D. O'Connell, to the effect that he accepted a consular appointment to one of the continental states. We are authorised to give the rumour the most explicit centre- suction. There is no foundation for the rums at he accepted a consulship in Boulogne, in Por (the places named), or in any other place.—Dublin wean. It is rumoured in Lincoln's Inn that two of the Masters in Chancery are about to retire on the super annuation allowance, and that their offices are tilxi con ferred on two of the present Queen's Counsel ; while , four additions are to be made to that body—Mr. Boun den Palmer, Mr. Manus, Mr. Lloyd, Mr. Willcocks, Mr. Chandless, and Mr. Follett are named as the parties ort whom that distinction is likely to be conferred. 1