The Sun. — London, England, 1852-03-30 00:00:00

t he subject—a=, for instance, in fancying that only 21 , 0 00 of our troops would be disposable for the dereatfencise of the metropolis. He be lieved this to be a gm talEP, and would undertake to prove that there were far 140 'e available for the purpose. WALPOLE—In this country? Sir DE LACY EVANS—Yes, in this count r y . anther mistake the Right Honourable Gentleman f 1d comm itted was in imagini n g that the position o "'ls country, in the event of invasion, would be worse c ia account of its being defensive. If that were so, the 'Faker force would not always choose the defensive Position. He was persuaded that in caw of invasion t his country would be found to have by far the I linst favourable position, and would make any invaders tae the attempt.—(Hea r, hear.) The measure of the 'rnvernment, with its mixture of the voluntary and com- Vistive, reminded him of the officer who, having invited regiment to volunteer for a dangerous service, not a man stepping from the ranks, exclaimed in ll a rage ne , "You t l llicals, as you won't volunteer, you sha go vert hea."—(A laugh.) He would wish the R i g ht Hon. Gen "'man to consider two questions —How many men he N.ild get to volunteer for his bounty; and how many toald be relied on to come up at the time of emergency? ''','l,(tlear, hear.) The fact was, the people considered a distribution of the regular forces of the country most peatisfactory. The Right Hon. Gentleman's threat, that they did not accept the militia, foreig o n tros must be %gaged for their defence, was an insult to the nation— stterly unnecessary; for they were never in a batter or more powerful condition for the resistance of invasion. '(heer, hear.) What there was need to provide against 'as some rash and unf oreseen attempt, with a force of hem thirty to fifty thousand men—not a great armament, 140 11 ch could not be prepared without our having full 11!zc'tine of it and time to p rovide against it.—(Hear:) ,osv for such a sudden emergency h e doubted if this 'runt.° would effectually p rovide—(Hear) —and for other purpose it was useless and unnecessary. — earo He agreed that a consolidation fardamn t t °,ent of the militia laws was necessary, at present So force could not be enabodied under twenty weeks.we ' 3O that it would, of course, be quite nseless . for te tiling of a sudden invasion; fur which, likewise, be believed that the present measure would be practically IteEficiant. And he believed it would bo far better to ,te . sort ra ther to volunteer cor p s than to a general militia. he Home Secretary had not stated whether the militia Wader this measure were to be clothed? Ur. WALPOLE—Yes. Sir DE LACY EVANS—And is that included in the estimate of 400,0001? at once or a sum monthly, the majority might choose to have the larger sum immediately—(Hear, hear)— although a monthly payment might effetd a better secu rity for the attendance of the men. But this is a matter of detail, and with the exception of these matters of de tail, with which we can deal when the Bill is in a proper shape, I am bound to say that the plan proposed by the Government is one highly deserving of the favour and sanction of the House.—(Cheers.) My Right lion. Friend says that I shall find fault with the Bill because it does not provide for the defence of Scotland and Ire land. I did not exactly hear what fell from the Right Hon. Gentleman on that point, but I apprehend the pro posed force will be liable to all the obligitions of the militia law, and that the militia so raised will be 13e liable rehend i to serve in any part of the United Kingdom.—(r, hear, from Lord J. Russell.) I appt is to be a militia or reserve of 80,000, raised chie by fly voluntar enlistment, trained during time of pee.ce, embodied ony the approach of war; and when embodied, liable to serve in any part of the United Kingdom. So, far, therefore, from taking advantage of this measure to turn out the Government, I think it is one which should claim from us every possible assistance, as I think it is of the ut most importance to the country.—(llear.) Colonel THOMPSON contended that the warlike es tabliihments of other countries ought not to be made the measure of our own. On the contrary, if the whole continent were one network of fortresses, it was no reason why we should add a single man to our army or navy. Gentlemen on his lido of the House felt the pressure from without, and their constituents demanded some reason for these augmentations of military force. For his own part, ho thought them unnecessary. If France excited alarm, it should be remembered that the star of its present ruler was not rising. On the con trary, it was falling, and that, too, in spite of the cheers of corporals and the embraces of demoiselles do l'Halle.—(Loud laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, I am one of those who think that the defences of this country ought to be increased —(Hear, hear)—aud I confess' that it never appeared to me to be a satisfactory reason against such an in crease to say that at the present moment we are at peace with all the world, and there is no im mediate prospect of hostilities.—(Hear.) For Sir, we know perfectly well, from former experience, that although there may be no cause of hostilities existing, yet that in the course of any two or three months, or in any one year, there may arise causes of hostility which it may be very difficult for Government and Parliament so to arrange as to prevent tho calamity of war.—(Hear, hear.) And these are questions which very often do not upon one aisposition of any particular Govern ment.—(Elear, hear.) I certainly would not rest the question of defence upon the Government of France or any other country. I think, on the contrary, we should consider the present ruler of France to be as well dis posed to peaee as any person who might be at the head of the Government of that country. As is the case with this country, he governs France with a high feel ing of honour and of susceptibility to indignity. Between two such nations, putting aside the United States and other countries, it is impossible to say that causes of hostility may not at any time arise. --(Hear.) Five or six years ago, for instance, when no one was dreaming of war or hostilities, we heard that ass injury had been inflicted on a consul of this country in the South Seas. Sir Robert Peel, then Prime Minister, came down to this House and de clared the injury to be wanton, and that reparation must be demanded and obtained. Now, suppose the Govern ment of France had said that no injury had been in flicted, aud no reparation was due or would bo given, would not a great cause of hostility have sprung up?— (Hear.) The Government of France, however, was more wisely, disposed to pacific councils, and the matter was arranged. But I believe that at the time the Mi nister of France would have been very popular if be had said that no indemnity was due to Mr. Pritchard, and that reparation should be withheld. You can never say, therefore, that war may not arise from causes to tally unforeseen.—(Bear, hear.) Agreeing, therefore, that our means of defence ought to be increased, I con fess 1 have heard with great pleasure the very able state ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman. At the same time I must say, that although I thought him ver m y clear randn exp li c it with respect to great portions of the u proposed to introduce, there were other portions not so agreeable, perhaps, to touch upon, and which therefore, folowing the rule of Horace, he seemedanxious to avoid a For, Sir, the grea t difficulty experience an d in proposing militia is the question of the ballot. If you to cannot ball get t. 80,000 volunteers yo u must have recourse the Now, I think we ought to have some explanation on the this head—whether the ballot is to take place in the unions, whether districts arc to be formed, and what class of persons are to be subject to the ballot; whether, also, substitutes are to be allowed, and whether all the per sons enrolled will be subject to five years' service in case of there being danger of invasion. I think these ques tions ought to be answered, in order that we may h know e what the proposed law is to be; because, althoug th Right Hon. Gentleman seems confident as to the volun teers being forthcomin, I do not feel so certai that the inducement of the first year will bo as Effectun al its the second. I think the Right Hon. Gentleman spoke of an option with regard to taking the whole 41. I in cline to believe that whereas the 4/• would would bo found genera lly acceptable, the monthly payment prove so great a temptation. Two shillings and six pence a month, or one penny a day, although it may be a fee for a voluntary militia-man, would not, I think, be considered a fee at all in the Court odehane.(H, hear, and a laugh.) Now if you not obtain these volunteers, or even if you obtain 50,000 in the first year, but do not succeed in procuring the remaining 20,000 or 30,000 in the second, you must then have recourse to the ballot; and I confess I do not know under what Act of Parliament there is any satisfactory mode of pro this large number of men under the ballot. It is also desirable that we should know for what time the cbilarlliontgis to extend, whether it is to apply to the inha bitants of particular districts, and at what ages it is to apply . Notwithstanding the c l lear n a f ds that .statement of the Right Hon. Gentletrian, i c s ( ver e y s impor i f n oo t t h , i h s u r t ei specs my notion of the measure t(haineleari,thqouairt.e) cleFaorrtmhayt othwenßpilalr shouldthbeerberaosuogitshtNNihn.t—oh I have before given, and fur the e r l e s a h so ou n l s d st p a r t e e i d er b a y la t r h g e e Ri g ht Hon. Gentleinan.to ig m ilitary force o f this letucslatomaanttionrcroeoatseoonfl ythiaorreugsva but olf—(Eiear, hear)—and if there el a s the o uycountry e i , appear t 0 0 0 w ga er judgevee r, t a repu .nanc to the militia force we may bo o d bl f iged, not perhaps e nc r e o , o but to p r havefer iol f i t a r e as some people su pp ose, r wholly ecou Tiverton (Lord Palmersto n ) q uite read y to agree rset°toabaanndiniciaresauseeh o a f m o e u a r n m s once. lam very g l a d to find the Noble Lord the Mem ber for (A laugh)—and becau to this Bill. I had the s o m m i s y f o ß r t u t, n o e o l t y o a d p i p ff l e i r e d f r t o o m E ohgi an—d tors? As it is now propo he atited Scotchuien wesreedcothaa'atrtdhsealdiilirtiiashvimheenotormai: the United Kingdom, the same hi o bodied shall be liable to sent to willany oo p t a o r p t l o y f with a satisfactory Hon. Gent With regalrcdrogaeonewriaillyaltiootfursopisrhopjuossal,l trust the Ri p ght . i c t o h u a n t ; try. Thera is another subject,oho, eecttoedthwe statement of the expense this foreeowoilolnbn increase of expense, on which I pe soon to hear the d how the expenses of the country ways and means, an determination of th© Government. It is the question of Hou what ho Exchequer will very soon inform t s h e are to b e met. I trust also that the Chancellor of the hA t tax. The income-tax expires on the 5t pri nex . , means to do with respect to the renewal of t e income and unless that Act be renewed the . dividends due in subject, I hope that for a premature statement on this July will be paid without any deduction. Not pressing no length of time may be suffered to elapse without the Right Hon. Gentleman acquainting us with his in tentions.—(Hear.) Mr. WALPOLE, in reply to the questions of the Noble Lord, said it was proposed to take the men required from the Registrar General's districts, as superior facilities were afforded by the census of 1851. It was also proposed to fall back upon the ,ballot in the event of the failure of the volunteer system, and to allow substitutes. With regard to the expense of such a force, if 31. a man was paid as bounty, the sum required for the first 50,000 men would be 150,0001.; and the 30,000 men f to be raised next year would cost 90,000/. Of course, the bounty was 41., the expenditure would be somewhat :more. The pay and allowances to joining and returning, 50,000 men and officers would be for twenty-one retuning, 6,250 J for m u e o n l. clothing, 11. 15s. a 8 6 7 ,2 , 5 12 0 9 1. / ; . man, 93,03/. ; extra . allowancege'' to ;innkeeper+, 15,000/. ; ; carriage arehi n o g f bagga making a total entail an .additional ex posed to be enrolled for 1853 would for 1852 of 206042/. The 30,000 men pro making of 38,02/ /. 103. 525/. for marching money, 2,180/. for innkeepers' allow an. for het enty-one (lees training, with ces; clothing (at 11. the- per man), , ; 53 550/. making,_ with some allowances for medecine, &c., a total expenditure for the two ye ars of 311,95'4., rleducting the cost of cloth in g providedin 1852 (93,6631.), the total cost of 80,000 men for 1853 would be 218 2881. ; and again deducting the for 1853, 210,0001. ; for 1854, 160,00 t 0 h / e . ; c f o o s r t 1854 would be 1 64 ' be ,"B • The cost for five years, he lieved • , might be taken to stand thus:—For 118:5525t,,r2a:006:,:0:0000f1:;; for i‘ l i B r. s l3G 1856, 160,0001. a o l. sked whether the ballot would apply t i d ' e e r s s . tood to oppose the Bill, be tween the ages of 18 and 35? Mr. t t h h e e re re w gu a l s a t r o a b rm e army. dt a ii n vi d si t : no WALPOLE—Yes. O w L as E re commendi mr. COBDEN anaug augmentation a th ti a o t n a i s a the motion for bringing in the Bill, the interest i o n discus sion had ceased.—(" No," from the Opposition.) he could say was, that if there was a division he should vote all e against the introduction of the measure. The difficulty he experienced in these discussions had become greater and greater ; for the more he heard of the necessity of increased armaments urged in both Houses of Parliament, the more he was at a loss to conceive the ground on which the necessity was founded. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Walpole) bad admitted that the country was never freer from a state of hostilities than now ; and the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster—that city which was to have been pillaged by the invader—had said it was impossible ler a foreign force to be landed in this country without our being fully forewarned. Lord PALMERSTON expressed dissent. Mr. COBDEN continued—The Noble Lord contradicted him, and thought it was possible for a sudden attack to be made. Lord PALMERSTON—Hear, hear. Mr. COBDEN—The Noble 'L or d cheered ; but he (Mr. Cobden) not pinning his faith to any noble lord's, would appeal to historical facts. It was said that the elder Napo leon contemplated an invasion of England; but were his preparations sudden or the work of a day ? But Napoleon was preparing his military armaments for a period of twelve months. There were not 40,000 men in that expedition, and it took 400 or 500 transports to carry those armaments after wards to Egypt. He thought it was admitted that it would b e impossible for any sudden descent to be made upon the p 1 0 o s o e d o 0 t hat o r t l h s e oo s e preparation desperad desperadoes English coast by a regular army and navy. T hen he su wsuerrepriisniotegndoesd. t s o ar p o r l e y ve p th nt o establishment of a militia would not prevent such charac ters surprising U 3, if they had ever formed the notion. Such men must be those who were determined to sacrifice themselves. If there was a body of Thugs in France who were determined to do mischief in this country', and to aim their invulnerability, how mild we preYeat W eava airaue,Weilly ANS thought that it would be wel l for the Government to explain why they had repulsed the officers of the volunteer corps. Mr. GIBSON suggested that the Government should defer the settlement of the subject until after that ap- Peal to the country which was to take place before long. C(Elear and a laugh.) The Right Hen. Gentleman ad declared that he did not propose the measure m in ttnse of any pecu liar urgency at the present bent, nor as a temporary measure, but rather as part 1 1 , 4 permanent policy. That, therefore, was a subject one should be most maturely considered; and it was toon which it was reasonable to await the verdict of re° oonatituencies—(Hear,hear)—especially as that was " .10 course the Government themselves proposed to Paranaca upon other subjects.—(Hear.) The measure a not extend either to Ireland or Scotland, L ord could scarcely, therefore, satisfy the Noble st tl (Palmerston), who had objected to a local ti Llitia, an d who would probably a sk now, as he had Fore, were Scotchmen traitors a nd Irishmen not to Je trusted ?—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had already i e nrned out one Government upo n this q uestion, and the S t amends he could mak e would be b y turning out k llother,—(llear, and a laugh.) Certai nl y the present m easure was as d e f e ctive as that of the late Govern ment. What security was there, for instance, that the s ubstitutes would be forthcomi n g at the hour f service? '(hear, hear.) An enormous expense was to be in trtrod in procuring them , wh en at the critical hour, tte tt le would be consumed in running about after them ud tryin to catch them.—(A laugh.) It was obvious t hkt g • • - h the militia would be of no use unless always em -sthed, and then what would be the effect of assembling 80 0 00 young men together for nearly a month?—(Hear, hoar)t,, What was to be done then? Were they to be he ar.) about in public-houses and beer-shops?—(Hear, m oral Would that be likely to be acceptable to the 11 041 and religious feelings of the country?—(Hear, elit .) The fact was that the militia system, however 'PPlicable it might have been to the time of George 111., 4 not suited to the present age.—(Hear.) It was far b etter in a country in which arts and industry had made uth great progress rather t o increase the standing army t hin to interrupt the avocation s of the p eo p le by calling p a ct, to follow the occup ation of a soldier.—(Hear.) II ' i EY said, " Tho pro f e ssion of a soldier almost always 4 tTts a m an for the following of other o ccu p ations. Of th ree inhabitants of a village, it is bet ter that one should idiot himself entirely to arms and the other two stay th astantly at home to cultivate t he g round, than that all t tee should mix the avocatio ns of the cam p with the !sitiess of husbandry. By the f o rmer arran g ement the i l ''' .. ontry gains one complete soldier and two industrious bandmen • from the latter it receives three raw militia men • h ,“, and three idle and profligate peasants"—(Hear, t . t t.) Ile agreed in that opinion entirely; and although elite concurring with the Right Honourable the Home ' e cretary that a Minister who shrunk from proposing su ch an augmentation of our force as he believed to be 4eeesary did not deserve the pos ition he occu p ied, he eld not admit that our forces were now inadequate to def e n c e of the country. The people were not indif ferent to our national defences, and w ould be uneas y if th ey 4 thought there was any d an g er. But they did not th ey that there was any dang er ; and he was persuaded would deem that no case had been made out for te, ttt u a measure as the present. There had been many Leropts to re-introduce the militia system. The Noble eltd (Palmerston) had avowed that for years he had F.. 11 tryi ng to induce the late Administration to adopt it. t. l 1831 the Government had endeavoured to revive it, `; tl had been frightened into the abandonment of it. In 1846 frightened a measure was proposed, but the Ministers were t 0 out of it; and in 1848 another attempt was ) , 41i e with a similar result, and the present measure 41 Id meet the same fate. Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I am Rot going to re ja„c)nd to the call of my R i g ht Honourable Friend, for, " far from opposing the measure, it is toy intention to Rive to the Government my support in favour of it.— a oar, hear.) And I must complim ent the Ri g ht Hon, fo rcible the Home Secreta r y on the ver y able and gaible ma nner in which he made his statement.— `‘'lleers from all aides of the H o u se. ) Sir, it is impos sible, I think, to overstate t he necessit y of some perma ,, t, ent arraugement of this kind.—(Hear, hear.) It is all : t Y well for Gentlemen to t alk of the amount of the /4 ° 3 Y, including in their estimates the forces in India, or Can a d a , or other distant colonies—and then to tell us have an army available for cur defence; bu t, Sir, it tur:tt,,i)stird to make use of such an argument—(Lo tad crises Rear, hear") —for every one knows that a l a r g e i l 'tiun of our army is not available for cur d efence at °4l e. Sir, my Gallant F riend (Sir Do Lacy Evans) t fo r of the number of tro o p s that could bo assembled t' the defence of the capital. I have seen calculations 0 r ! that subject, and I am c onvinced that the statement the Right Hon. Gentleman as to the amount of „ °t ea which could so be made available is by no means ,lederststed.—(llear, hear.) I should doubt whether ,', a t amount of force could be got together within the space it a few days if it was required. It is true, we have a /IN° amount of ships; but, as was stated by the Right a , -° n• Gentleman, these ships cannot be put to sea at a t c,'toent's notice, because you have not the men by whom ",, e Y are to be worked.—(Elear, hear.) I will go further, L' ct say, that if these ships were manned and fit to go to ,`, 4 ) it is physically impossible that a naval force could f ueetually prevent the arrival of a very large invading b ° „ r e,e, if opportunities are taken advantage of and pro force seized.—(llear, hear.) My lion. and Gallant rtend has stated that in order to collect a large force f or t the purpose of crossing the Channel and coming to 's country preparations must be made, and ample ()tice w ould be had o f its intended a pp roach to this r, '%ntry, I think my lion. and Gallant Friend is much t4 istalcon as to the fac ilities of forei g n countries for col -1 'otin g a formidable forc e and bringing it to this country. t hat The very w atching ships bearing information t ouch an expedition ha d sailed would not reach this coast before the expedition itself; and, therefore, I con tend;that, in addition t o the naval means at our disposal ' l , () ,r preventing invasio n, it is absolutely and indispensa "Y necessary that we should have a force at home r(ailable to meet the enemy if he should succeed landing on our coast. I do not rest this hlinion upon any danger existing at the present mo '"alat.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) I am will . A A to admit to any extent that in our relations with the rferent nations of the world there is no present ground meet o t , danger. If there were p resent danger the measure L ots the Government w ould bo insufficient to i f t, as it Oca not provide for an immediate augmentation force, ‘lt simply lays the found ation of a prospective and per . ~," Auent arrangement, applicable for t the timed that if to como as "Qeasure of defence. Now, leantSir, i is sai we to defend this country we must increase our army e - ' 11(1 navy. I think the Right lion. Gentleman has fully `lplained, arid I think also that I bad an opportunity on 4,fornaer occasion of explaining, that you could not t hat any permanent addition to your regular army - 1 " ) ,” would answer the purpose for which you require Which augmentation of force. This force of 80,000 men, 'uicia the Government propose to organize, could be Peri o di cal l y drilled at the same exp ense that would be r lourred for the 8, 000 men added to the regular army. An di: does any man m ean to tell me that it is not f orce to be able to organize., drill, and equ i p such a h owever in a fortnight, than to have a force of 8,000 men, good may be their discipline and their equip -1115 Int? You have also this advantage, as was stated Public the Right Honourable Gentleman. Any change in t e ' l blic opinion—any alteration in the finances of the '",',Umtry—might at the end of two years deprive you of th© addition had made to the airier army, and you Tea, you would find you bad derived no benefit from the e xpense incurred. When the men were disbanded, you ould he in the same position as when y ou commenced t he augmentation; whereas if , a t the end of two y from ears, motives of economy or financial embarrassment, it was resolved to discontinue this training army, or army of Militia, you would still have them enrolled and liable Servo in the moment of dangera--(Hear, hear.) In t he one case, therefore, you would have an opportunity O t adding 80,000 men to the effective force of the coun t`tY, but in the other you could only resort to t heir.)d i ee a q means of common enlistment.—(tan I say, speaking generally, that the plan the Govern 'uent have proposed appears to me to be a very good one. (lear, hear.) I have always thought that, to a great d egree, voluntary enlistment might be taken advantage of as a substitute ;or the ballot. I think itmight be worth c onsideration whether the ingenious arrangement of dividing the bounty into monthly payments should be l ' o dopted as the only mode. Perhaps if it were left to the PtiQa allow wintirg they wild receive isrge sum them indulging themselves? Did not the House think that if there be such characters, that they would take Vie wiser course of coming over individually and dis persing themselves through the country, when they would be able to do ten times more mischief than if they attacked us in a body? He did not believe that anybody in this country seriously entertained the slightest apprehension of danger from France. Was there not evidence that the French Government contemplated anything but an attack upon us? Did they think that that Government would have convected their Five per Cents. into Four-and-a-Half per Cents. if they contemplated any such thing? He saw around him capitalists who were engaged in making rail ways through France. Was there ever such an amount of capital going there as at the present moment? Well, then, he asked them whether they thought that they would send money into a country which was inhabited by armed bandits? Why, the Government must ask them to get rid of their reason and common sense before they could be induced to assent to this measure. Why, they were legislating against France is if she were in the position of ancient Scandinavia, who, without the slightest cause or pretext, was determined to make war upon us for the mere hope of plunder, feeling that they had nothing upon which we could retal ate. Had they not rich cities in France? Had they not more silver than we had in this country ? Was there not more bullion in the Bank of Paris than in that of London ? (Hear, hear.) Why, they appeared to think that the French people were wholly - bereft of common sense, and did not look two inches beyond their nose. But what was really the fact ? Why they were second only to ourselves as a manufacturing country. With the exception of England,no country depended so largely on raw materials from abroad to carry on their ma nufactures as France did. Paris herself manufactured more for exportation than any three capitals in Europe. All the chances were against this apprehended attack being made upon us. He saw his Right lion. Friend near him who was endeavouring to persuade the House to abolish a tax that pressed severely upon the people in the way of preventing the spread of knowledge and education amongst them; yet the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite made a motion that night that would absorb the whole of the money that was produced by this impost. Another Honourable Gentle man was seeking for the abolition of the duty upon hops; but here was a proposition which would involve precisely the expenditure of that amount. If they could play at sol diers without making the people pay for their amusement he would not of course complain ; but, when they asked him to consent to a measure which would press severely upon the industry of the people, then he had a right to de mand their reasons for this expenditure. The Noble Lord the Member for London, in reply, said, that because they happened to be enjoying the blessings of peace, they should take measures to prepare for war. Now, was that a good reason for such a Bill as this? He was, on the contrary, of opinion that every year they passed in this condition of peace the better grounds had they for expecting a continuance of peace. Would the Noble Lord tell him when this was to brio r ;tie mnto. Lerd, in his speech upon the Reform Bill in 183 2 , complained of the D0r0ugn—...,,,„ so long resisting the reductions of the army. The Noble Lord and his party, however, had aided in gradually in creasing that army since, by adding to the supplementary forces. They had their dockyard battalions, amounting to 10,000 men. They had also their veteran battalions, amount ing to 15,000 men, as good soldiers as any in England. They had, however, now nearly doubled the uniform that was supplied for their army since 1822. He recollected at the end o f the year of 1830 there was as much unform provided for their armed men as they had in France. Was that necessarily or properly the fruit of peace? He thought that we should naturally enjoy the ad vantage of peace in a time of peace. The Government were not acting in the way to promote good feeling between this country and France. Nothing had been done in France; not one overt act had been committed by the French Go vernment during the last four years to warrant this outcry. On the contrary, there was every reason to suppose it was the wish of France to remain at peace with us. What was said in 1818, when the revolution broke out? He (Mr. Cobden) was taunted at that time with permitting himself to be deceived ; for the French people, it was then said, were preparing to make an onslaught upon us. Well, what took place ? Every one now sees that the last four years have de monstrated that the French people were pacifically disposed. But within the last three months an individual had obtained a supreme power there—this individual, no doubt, bore an ominous name, which was calculated to renew old antago nisms and alarm here ; and it is alleged that in consequence of his having shown a disposition for war we were to arm ' ourselves. But has his conduct been such as to warrant ' such apprehensions? Has not the Noble Earl at the head of 1 the Government declared his belief in his pacific inten tions, and has not the Noble Lord the Member for London said the same thing? This country was standing in an un worthy position. He thought it was both cowardly and im proper to take these unnecessary precautions against ima ginary dangers. He was speaking now in the name of a large portion of the people of this country. The people 1 denounce this force, and declare they do not want it. Ex- I elusive of the 15,000 veteran pensioners, he would under- ' take to point out 40,000 men who could be transported to the coast of Sussex by railway, fresh and in good condition, in one-tenth of the time it took when they were obliged to ' march on a most irksome and fatiguing journey. But it ' was invariably the rule in that House, on the Treasury benches, to adopt the plea of destitution of the 1 forces when they were asking for an increase of them. The Gallant Admiral who represented Gloucester, ' when sitting on the Treasury bench, had stated that we had not a ship of war fit to send to sea on an emergency ; but no sooner was he seated on the Opposition benches than he ' made a speech to show that we were completely hoaxed in regard to the navy; for that we had steamers ready in the Channel which could take up their position in such a way ' as to be within hailing distance from the North Foreland 1 to the Channel Islands. Now, he (Mr. Cobden) should like to have a Committee to inquire into the actual number of armed men in the country. He thought it would be a 1 good addition to make to the army and navy estimates if they had a statement of the exact disposition of these ' troops. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite shakes his head ' at this, as if there was some mystery about it which we should not tell the French. Now this was the old pedantic 1 excuse for withholding this information. The Noble Lord 1 the Member for Tiverton referred to our vast colonial em pire, which, he said, covered one-eighth of the surface of the ' habitable globe, and that we were to send our army and navy to defend this vast territory. But he (air. Cobden), I would ask whether it had ever occurred to those who indulge I in such observations, that the taxation by which this large force was maintained for this vast colonial empire was paid I by the little specks of islands called Great Britain and Ire- ' land?—(Hear, hear.) Why should not Canada, for instance, which contained 2,000,000 of inhabitants, who were infinitely superior to our people, and who paid no tax I into our Exchequer, pay for the support of the army which 1 she required for her protection? Canada did no such thing; but she had actually put a prohibitive duty upon the pan- I pers from Ireland entering her borders. His Hon. Friend the Member for Manchester as well as himself urged the bring ing home of their soldiers from the colonies, with a view of 1 disbanding them. The Right Hon. Gentleman the late First Lord of the Admiralty said that if we brought our great line of-battle ships from the Mediterranean, and placed them in the Channel, we would only induce the French to do the 1 same, in order that they might meet us in the Channel. I Why what did that mean but that we kept our fleet in I the Mediterranean because the French did the same? It was suggested by Arthur Young, some eighty years since, 1 that if we could induce France to bring their ships along- • side ours in the Channel. and then burn them, it would I be good policy to do so. But then comes the argument, 1 that since the introduction of steam we were not as safe as we were before. This steam, it was said, had bridged the Channel; but the bridge was in our possession, and not in that of the enemy. When it becomes a question of steam we have an infinite advantage over the rest of Europe. I Why, the coals of England supply the French steamers in Mediterranean ; and there was hardly a city in France that was not lighted with British coal. As the Hon. Member for Tyrone truly said the other night, for every steamer which the French could fit out, England could fit out ten, and in the course of two or three months an immense number of our steamers could be converted into privateers, and our mer chant vessels might be diverted to warlike purposes of suffi cient power to command the ocean. Did they not think that the French Government were perfectly well aware of our immense force and our powers of destruction in the event of war? Upon all these grounds he maintained that the measure was wholly uncalled for—that the expense it in volved was most wanton, and, thinking so, he was deter mined to give to every stage of the Bill every opposition in his power.—(liear, hear.) Mr. BERESFORD said the Hon Member for the West Riding was only following hisvocat ion in abusing everybody who wore a red coat.—(Oh, oh.) But the Hon. Gentleman was not the best authority on these subjects. The Hon. Gentleman lately made a tour of peace and goodwill on the continent, and on his return he prophesied a universal reign of loving kindness and goodwill. But hardly had the lion. Gentleman made his prophecy when they heard from all sides wars and rumours of wars—the citizens of every capital in Europe cutting the throats of their neighbours, and civil war raging all over the continent.—(Oh, oh, and cheers.) He was therefore not disposed to place implicit confidence in the opinions of the lion. Member, because he had already been tried and found decidedly wanting. The Hon. Member said that in 1802 the French prepared to invade this country, and that many months were wasted in these preparations. But the lion. Member did not advert to what he stated when he reckoned up the means of our defence—the faci lities which the railways now afforded for concentrating a force on a given point. The Honourable Member ought to have remembered that railways did not exist only in Eng land, but that by means of them it was in the power of France to concentrate a much larger force for attack than we could do for defence. But the measure had never been defended on this side of the House, merely because they dreaded an attack from France. Their doctrine had always been that a country rich and powerful like England ought to have a sufficient amount of force to preserve her, in case she should be forced into war, in that amount of peace and se curity at home which she had always hitherto enjoyed. The Hon. Member for Montrose and the Hon. Member for the West Riding told them that all the danger was imaginary, and that fear existed only in the minds of old women. Well, f be h r boo fo ad r ty,l M e as o b n ut t t r w o s s ao e s t h e a i o n t dan er.—(Laughter.) But younger men, and h i ne retainedueec much was N. g 1 n a d o t t 0 0 0 l s y e m e isno t d h that t c h ht e o s Hon. shonwg superiorig ee h e to k al g o about the matter were not of his mind. tor London, the Noble Lord the Member p t t m h i o e o n r a f n a g e f few w was Gentlemen not imaginary.o pp os t e , The very Noble e had all agreed that some such Nay, more, the House had measure as this was necess f re y nce for a general over a local of that decision of the equence foriTiverton, as we as his Right Hon. Friend the Khan felt compelled, though c e r admitted of t-tehhniaeeetwe Exchequer, ar menlLa\loriteda' militia; d'tt—yhh-ee illa it was eawr inp nonce s House its atthe s t a h m at e t t h im e present e itwas eGonosvoenranamt w h wou e Government brought in He maintained burdensome and oppressive to the people? to being forward this Bill. The real question was Had the free from the objections of t a he ß b il a l llo wi t lh . ll N ic ow , their ow l ; c b onv th icti l o e n as s t , that they had. They had brought in a measure whdichte the a s ballot, he was bound to say it was an obwnoitxhioruesgamreasure ; though when called upon to fight for their hearths and homes he felt sure no Englishman would refuse to serve. The lion. b a i n ie odannG. objection un l j l d a e n e Gt t ao e lnl i a e on m nt bG the e e r n p f t for nt N a V onf e s t o t h r u n e g i ph n e s to t p e t r loe t be eo volunteer.o theg h t la t s h t e p r e e would raise such an objection, for be had without much difficulty raised a corps of volunteers, not for the purpose of defend ing Old England, but for warfare on a foreign shore, and that too in the face of difficulties thrown in the way by the laws of this country. He thought, therefore, it was ungrately, to say the least of it, on the part of the lion. and Gallant Gentleman to raise this objection. Was English feeling dead? Were high-minded and noble senti ments altogether extinct? Far be it from them to say so. Then the Right lion. Member for Manchester said that this Bill ought to be thrown out because it did not include Ireland and Scotland, and he called upon the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton to defeat it on that ground. Now, he maintained that her Majesty's Government had acted en tirely in accordance with precedent on this subject. The Militia Bills for England never were the same as the Mi litia Bills for the other two parts of the kingdom. There never had been a ballot in Ireland ; the militia there were alwayswraised by beat of the drum ; the plan had never failed tat had been done in Irelwi ? They had a remark- the hands of Irishmen drawn from the very class of persons ably fine police force in Ireland; and we had p ut arms into from whom the militia force would be drawn in England.— (Hear.) The Irish people were always good and loyal sub jects, and made the best of soldiers.—(Hear.) The House had heard of the expense consequent upon the enrolment of the militia. He would ask the House what was the part of England which was most exposed to invasion? It was the southern portion of the coast; and the Bill limited the en rolment of the militia to England in the first instance, con ceiving that it was in England we. were the most exposed to invasion. The lion. Member for Manchester spoke of the demoralization of the people, and the evils that would arise to the trade of the country, in the event of the militia being called out. He (Major Beresford) could not believe that such an injury to trade wou'd arise; but if it did, what would that be in comparison with the consequences which would follow the invasion of our shores by a large foreign force ? (Hear, hear.) Arid as to the demoralization, they had no right to suppose there would be a greater amount of it as the result of calling out the militia than of increasing the regular army. Again, the militia was only called out for a limited period, and in that limited period they would have so much work assigned them that they would have no time for idleness. If they had plenty given them to do they would find no opportunity for that demoralization apprehended by , the Hon. Member for Manchester. For his ( Major Beres• ford's) part, he thought this a measure of protection.—(lron ical cheers and laughter from the Opposition, answered by counter cheers ) He repeated that it was a measure of pro tection—of protection to the interests, the virtue, the industry, and the chastity of Great Britain.—(Oh, oh, and laughter.) Admiral BERKELEY said the lion. Gentleman the Mem ber for the West Riding appeared to have recovered his courage, for some months ago he was the first among the panic-stricken to condemn and execrate the Admiralty for the way in which it conducted its business, and for leaving the country totally unguarded. That showed the Honourable Gentleman meddled with subjects he did not understand. — (Hear. hear.) Let it be " soldier, sailor—tinker, tailor," it was all the same thing to the Hon. Gentleman.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman stated that he (Admiral Berkeley) had said he could cover the Channel with vessels within hail of one another. Did the Honourable Member know bow many ships it would take to cover the space between the North Foreland and the Channel Islands? So much for the Hon. Gentleman's seamanship. The Hon. Gentleman had also stated that if we made all this demonstration it would elicit a similar manifestation on the part of France ; and he (Admiral Berkeley) had been found fault with both in and out of that House for making the statement to which he had already referred. But he told the Honourable Gentleman and the House, and he pledged his character for it as a naval officer, that in twenty-four hours after the Government had given the orders, there would be, not a force to resist, but there would be a force on the look-out of armed steamers reaching from the North Foreland to the Channel Islands.—(hear, hear.) Did the Hon. Gentleman know how many ships it would take to cover that space? Did be Then ne mu 2..6 laamow . WhAt he was talking about. = )now the distance?--(Some Hon. M ember said " No.") (Laughter.) Ile (Admiral Berkeley) count mows, the Hon. Member's lamentable ignorance of his (Admiral Berkeley's) profession, for the lion. Member was backed up by one of the greatest officers in the navy, though he was rather too fond of writing in newspapers. That Gallant Officer had stated that if his (Admiral Berkeley's) state ment, that he could cover the Channel with armed steamers twenty-four hours after the Government had given the order, could be realized, " all the old ladies in England might put on their nightcaps and go to bed.' --(Laughter.) He (Admiral Berkeley) had thought that Gallant Admiral was famous for his energy and resource ; but of late he (Admiral Berkeley) had been inclined to change that opinion, and to believe the Gallant Admiral's energy and resource were failing him. That being his impression he thought he might apply the words of the old song to the Gallant Admiral, and say— " The bullets and the gout Have so knock'd his hull about That he'll never more be fit for sea." (Great laughter.) He (Admiral Berkeley) would tell the House how the thing was to be done.—(" Ay, let's have it, and a laugh.) We had before the Lisbon squadron returned three steamers in commission in our ports • we had also three ordinary ships in commission; and we had fifteen first-class reserve steam-vessels in every point ready for sea, wanting the men.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Then how were the men to be raised? The marines, the officers, the seamen engineers, and the seamen riggers, were in the dockyards or on the spot, and the principal of the coast-guard had orders to get 1,500 men ready to join at Davenport, Portsmouth, or Sheerness, at which place soever they might be wanted. In 1827, before railroads and electric telegraphs were in vogue, in forty-eight hours a squadron manned in an efficient manner sailed for Lisbon, and Mr. Canning boasted of the circumstance in that House. If such a thing could be done in those days he should be sorry to think that the navy of this country had so completely lost the energy for which they were distinguished as not to be able to repeat it at this day with all the appliances they now had.—(Hear,hear.) But he (Admiral Berkeley) was not at all satisfied that we had men enough for the navy. He had said it over and over again, and he repeated it now, that we ought not to be content with less than one-third of the men in peace that we required ie time of war. With regard to the efficiency of the navy, he maintained that it was as efficient as the means placed at the disposal of the Admiralty would allow it to be.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. F. MAULE agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman who had introduced the measure that it was the duty of citizens to contribute to the internal defence of the country. He ales agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that the pre sent was a fitting time, inasmuch as there were no parti cular threatenings of danger, calmly to consider the manner in which such a iduty should be discharged. The late Go vernment, only about a month ago, proposed to introduce a specific measure for that purpose. He would not attempt to disguise his opinion that, in these times, any militia established by the ballot, would be most unpopular. The object he had had in view was to make the duty as little bur densome and as little expensive as possible to those called on to serve. It was true that the late Government had pro posed that a certain number should be chosen by ballot, but they gave an opportunity to volunteers to serve if they chose. They proposed that the number chosen should be drilled and trained in their own locality, and that they should not be liable to removal from their own localities except in case of actual or threatened invasion, and only for the period mentioned in the Bill. That seemed to him to be the extent to which they were entitled to call on the people fur a local defence. Any further defence he thought would be better effected by an addition to the regular army. As to expense, the militia, once embodied and efficient, would be as costly as any other force. The present Bill, however, proposed to go a great deal further than the measure which he wished to introduce. Ile should not oppose the introduction of the present measure, but he thought it clearly intended the revival of the regular militia. It extended only to England, and he was glad of that ; it implied that the party called on to serve was not necessarily to be drilled in his own neighbourhood, but might be sent at any time during the five years' service to be drilled at a distance, either on actual or threatened invasion, or insurrection or tumult. The persons serving would be liable to be re moved by order in Council from their own localities, and be sent to serve either in Scotland or Ireland. That was a far more burthensome service than that which be bad pro posed in the Bill he had sought to introduce. The Right lion. Gentleman the Secretary of War stated that it was meant to get rid of the unpopularity of the ballot, and that to do so the'system of volunteers would first be tried. Ills own impression was, that if there w as a regular militia , few volunteers would be found. He admitt e d that one volu nteer was worth many pressed men. A b oun ty was to be offered of It. or 41., and the Right Hon. Gentleman had state d that it would be paid either all at once or by sma ll monthly pay ments, subject to the regulations of the Secretary at War. He did not understand what regulations could be esta blished if the money was paid on service being taken. If it were paid all at once, they might rest assured that few such bounty-men would make their appearance at the second training.--(A laugh.) He should say that he did not believe they would find any man willing to take up on him self the liability of being removed from his own distri ct for a paltry payment of half-a-crown a month, or one pen n y p er day. He was persuaded that, unde r the proposed syst em, they should come at last to the ballot, 'because they could not get a sufficient number of volunteers. A length of time must elapse before the machinery fur the ballot could be got up ; and he wished to know whether the Right Lion. Gen tleman had included in his estimate the expense of that machinery ? Mr. WALPOLE was understood to say that that expense would fall on the district. Mr. F. MAULE continued—Then there was to be a county rate for that purpose, and a new charge was to be thrown on the country gentlemen.— (Hear, h ear .) Now, it certainly seemed somewhat strange that a Mi n i s try which professed an earnest desire to alleviate the b ur d e ns of the country gentlemen should thus propose to a dd to those burdens. But, after all, he would answer for it that the new force could not be brought into the field in less than ten months. The object or the late Government had been to raise a force which could be brought together in ten weeks, and to have that force as well drilled as any that could be raised under the measure then under the consideration of the House. If they were to have recourse to the old and regular militia, he warned them that in time of peace their plan would i t n o il l i i t la ia in i t n a t i o n b th ar e r m ac i k n s a t n h y ey thi lY g oU l l i c k l e fin th d e utterly fail. He warned them that until they drew their it sh utterly ape th ethey co impossible ntem plated, as it would be to uphold the efficiency of a regiment which, after having been kept together for ten weeks, should be allowed to disperse for the remainder of the year. If they were to have a militia force at all, it ought to be a very large force. They ought to have at least 150,000 of their tptth aoakesserve msee ro;yvuoaoetunu after of h gtft , ehmri w et eyt h lnho o one auy w gtg o h2hb u oat l ea d ft auoa l nr e tedat a al v ltt; o e nhhweee n dy t o aitoigheu v i eeg • m i ha v oegt e r s en3boo o oet. r fr t2 c ol lreds of teyh r ‘gr e euh n oi orfuoes behind eettmrooe the main provisions of the measure proposed by the late Government ; and the adoption of that measure would, he felt persuaded, cause the burden of defending the country to fall as lightly as possible on its citizens. lint the present proposal would, he believed, be very unpopular ; and although he would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, he could not pledge himself to vote for it on a future occasion if its principle were the exact adoption of the old system of a regular militia.—(Hear.) Mr. lIOBIIOUSE said, until the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox Maule) had advanced the very powerful argu ments he had addressed to the House, he (Mr. Hobhouse) was inclined to think that all the authority was on the Opposi tion side of the House, and all the argument, on the other. ' He hoped he should be the last man to vote for our shores being left exposed to invasion ; but there was one thing he must claim for a measure of that kind, and that was that at least the precaution to be taken should bear some propor tion to the danger.— (Hear, hear.) It was not so in the pre sent case. They had danger which was infinitesimally small provided for by a security which was proportionably large.—(Hear, hear.) That was the reason why, if Hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House would support him, he would take a division even at this stage of the Bill. lie was convinced the danger had been greatly magnified. While all foreign powers were at peace with us, he thought there was no reason for a Bill which put the country to so H ec o he much expense, and called men from the plough and the their ., votes, to consider the re- Gentlemen, w g ' anda a v s b ce r f loom to become soldiers ; and if the House would listen to I d yas llon . ourable reason, and not to its prejudices, ho believed they would grea at the present moment quite sure the Noble Lord the Mem or iverton would not say Ln i e i l e and b . ese c ty k . the te that utterly reject such a Bill. in France, under the regime of Louis Napoleon than it was Philippe. o f Louis , ippe. The House would under the dynasty • that remember the Syrian campaign, and when the time I G a inotnl the h m b eeet before r or f France t l h ya e came when danger. lie did not say that France in so withdrew from blow, she was actuated On the con withdrawing trary, he believed she was actuatedby prudence and by a the Irenchmibgyhtphusaisl•leansitrmui ercial interest‘ calamities war. Again, in the Pritchard affair we had the same me nace and the same language of remonstrance addressed to us t he time for action came , France reced ed, • but when and peace was most happily maintained between that country and this. Again, in the time of the French Republic it would be in the recollection of the Home with what acchi. mation the warlike message of General La Hitte was re ceived when there appeared to be a prospect of violating the principle of peace with England. The' people of the country heard of that message for a time, but like all the other threats that proceeded from the same power, it evaporated, and ceased to possess any significance. The best security for the preservation of peace between France and England was the knowledge that in any such emer gency the rest of Europe would, for its own sake, take arms against France, and revenge the cause of England.—(Hear, hear.) It was precisely the case of a private individual. The individual was deterred from the commission of crime by a fear of the consequences ; and so in this case w• , uld France be deterred from commencing a war. But was there no security whatever in diplomacy? If, in spite of all oar treaties, we were still required to take such means for re pelling sudden aggression, our embassies were maintained at a great cost and to no purpose, and diplomacy had become a mockery and a delusion.—(liear, hear.) But wars very seldom took place with the suddenness which was now talked of. Negotiations took place, correspondence was ex changed, explanations were offered, recriminations perhaps followed, and at the end of several months war might take place ; but in the meantime the several powers had time to look after their armies. At all events, if a sudden attack were meditated, the precautions we were taking against it were quite ineffective to the purpose and disproportionate to the danger. If any precautions should be taken, he held that our navy was amply sufficient to repel all possible aggres sion.—(Hear.) He would give the House the same advice which the Delphic oracle gave to the Athenians, and tell them to betake themselves to their wooden walls. At all events, do not try to raise a militia force. It always had been, and always would be, an unpopular force in this country, because it might be directed against the liberties of this co untry itself. Suppose a sudden attack should be made upon the country, there was spirit enough in the people, and strength enough in our regular force, to keep the French army from reaching London, and to place it, between our army and navy, in a very uncomfortable predicament. He (Mr. Hobhouse) was not disposed to embarrass the Honourable Gentlemen opposite, but at the same time he was not disposed to trust them, and he intended therefore to move the reading of the Bill that day six months. A danger which we had escaped for so many years could not now be so imminent that the Hon. Gentlemen opposite could not delay this measure till July or August. The new Parliament aught to settle this Bill.—(Hear.) It should be discussed upon the hustings, for it was a question in which the people were deeply interested.—(Hear.) ,The militia system would be a fertile source of jobbing. The land would swarm with colonels—(Laughter)—and we should see nothing but red coats. Men would be distracted alike from their business and their pleasures, and all upon no earthly pretence that could be justified by argument. If introduced, these levies would be utterly useless in a time of war, for a slight glance at history would show that raw levies had always fled before the fire of disciplined troops. That being the case, and a number of his friends agreeing with him that the measure was an inexpedient, one, ho should move that the Bill be read that day six months. are_ NE WDEGATE was proceeding to address the House, but Mr. HOBHOUSE rose to order, and reminded the Speaker that his amendment had not been put. The SPEAKER said, the motion before the House was, that the Bill for calling out the militia be introduced by cer tain Members, and the only amendment which could be moved was, either the direct negative to this, or that some other Members be ordered to bring in the Bill.—(Ministe rial cheers.) Mr. NEWDEGATE was sorry the Hon. Member for Lin coln would not find his name entered upon the journals of the House, for he really believed that could have been his only motive in bringing forward the amendment.—(A laugh.) There appeared a great discrepancy between the statements made by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, for the Hon. Member for the 'West Riding advised us to send Commis missioners to France and ask that power to burn their fleet, while the Honourab M le ber for Lincoln (Mr. Hob house) suggested that th em e force of the navy should be doubled.—(Hear, hear.) As to the demand that the Bill should be left unpassed until the constituencies had pronounced upon it, he supposed Hon. Gentlemen opposite wanted a cry with which to go to the country, feeling sure that the measure would be unpopular when viewed in the light in which they were going to put it at the hustings. He almost began to regret that the Noble Lord lately at the bead of the Government and Lord Derby had repressed the warnings which bad been addressed by the press to the people on the possibility of a sudden invasion. He fully appreciated the motives which had dictated this course on the part of the late and the present Premier. The language held by the press must have been irritating to the people of France, but the Noble Lord, as well as Lord ' Derby, forgot that there was a faction in this country who would only be controlled by popular clamour; and the press therefore, perhaps rightly , believed that this House would not have strength enough to carry any measure for the protection of our shores unless they excited the alarm of the people. Ile feared that the democratic principle was working so strongly that, without a popular cry, as it was called, we should scarcely be able to adopt any measure of defence. He hoped, however, the Government would not be deterred by any feeling of this sort, and by what had been said by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, from bringing for ward a measure of such importance as that before the House. Mr. HORSMAN felt strongly the responsibility resting upon the Right Hon. Gentleman who had brought forward the present measure, but a great responsibility rested also upon every Member of that House in regard to it.—(Hear.) One of the difficulties which presented themselves to his mind with reference to the scheme was, that he was unaware of any precedent for demanding so large a military esta blishment as was now proposed without some pressing neces sity was apparent. He believed that the means of defence which had failed in the country during the last war, and which after 40 years of peace had become so unsuited to the feelings of the people, would, it was not difficult to fore see, fail again on any emergency. Our safety should not rest on the forbearance of an enemy, but on our own strength—(Hear)—and it was the opinion of military men that the tate of England would be sealed for ever if her defence was left to a militia instead of a regular army. Indeed, it would be a folly and madness no one could be guilty of to expose a militia to the trained troops of France. If, then, there was any reason to apprehend an invasion, such a force would not constitute an adequate de fence, and it would be costly without being efficient. There was no difficulty in inducing the House to increase our forces when cause was shown for it. On looking back to the acts of the late Government, he found that from 164.6 there had never been a proposition to increase the estimates which had not been carried by a majority of 4 to I, while in Sir Robert Peel's Government gainer motions were carried by a still larger majority. It was the practice of successive Administrations to say they were obliged to reduce our establishmente, while the fact eras that this very question of maintaining or increasing them was one on which every Administration had maintained the support of Parliament. If there really was a necessity fur this increase to our de fences let Government come down to the House and lay the case before them, and he would venture to say there was no increase the House of Commons would not sanction.— ( Hear, hear.) For his own part he did not attach much weight to the rumour of war, but at the same time, whenever the Go vernment measure was discussed, it should be approached by him in no hostile spirit.—(Hear, hear.) Captain BOLDER() said it was the duty of the Govern ment to keep the country in a state of security, and it was not in that state at present. Though he believed that the present Prince President of France had no disposition to a ttack this country, where he had so lon g resided, yet who could foretell what might take place during the next twelve months? Another dictator might then be placed at the head of the French army with less amicable feelings. He referred to the good service which the militia had, in past days, done the country, and stated that he should have no objection to place the regular army on the same footing as in 1818, and have the militia besides. lie trusted never to see the day when a foreign army should be found on the soil of this country, but, should such an event occur, lie had no fear that that army, however numerous, could make any impression on so great and powerful a nation as Great Britain. Colonel SI DTHORP had the honour of holding an im portant commission in that most valuable force, the old re gular militia, and he expressed his opinion that there was a great superiority in the measure of the present Government as compared with that of the last Government. He placed confidence in the present Government, and therefore he should support the introduction of the Bill ; but he would not be bound by all the details, as he preferred the system of the old militia without alteration. The O'GORMAN MAHON, without going into the details of the proposed measure, desired to express his ex treme regret at the speech delivered by the Hon. Member for the West Riding, and, on the part of his countrymen, he begged to tender to the Secretary at War thanks tor the manner in which he bore testimony to their fidelity and loalt, whenever they were called to the defence of their country, and to the maintenance of the honour and dignity of the Crown. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he merely rose to express his hope that Hon. Gentlemen opposite would not call on the House to divide. The Government were, in fact, only obeying the order of the House, and all they asked for was permission to lay on the table of the House that Bill which the majority of the House had decided should be prepared; and this was his answer to the lion. and Gallant Member for Lincoln ; and he assured that lion. and Gallant Member that bye his vote that night he was pledged to nothing, but to emit the Government to comply with the order of the House. — (Hear, hear.) It was for these reasons that he should, only for a few moments, trespass on the attention of the House. He should not be induced to attempt to answer the lion. Member for the West Riding, who had made one of those able and agreeable speeches which be (the Chancellor of The Hon. Member was not merely aga inst the militia, but he; eEnxtierheleyqudeirs)agarlewedayws iltlhstetoheedm.t_o ( w H i e t a h r, pl a e n as d ur l e a , u t g h h o t u e g r. l ) i aga inst all defence.—(Hear, hear.) His argument was an argument against the line, against the household troops, the artillery, and the cavalry; and it proceeded on the assumption that, in the present state of the world, no country need defend itself.—(Renewed laughter.) He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could not give his adhesion to those opinions. He could not agree with the lion. Gentle man that the events of the last few years, to which he had opinions,as authority for what he had stated—(Hear, hear)-- and had triumphantly n a t o h f o r i u s e r p e and when he recollected, since the date to which he had ahisrefaedrroepdtintgo tthhoesme commenced, that in gh the course of eight weeks four pitched battles had been fought, appealed, re ferre d wt h hh a eo d nu e a hc n oe and that the Baltic sag e had been both blockaded, he really could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman that those were the evidences of that halcyon period the approach of which the Hon. Gentleman to antici repeat hear.) it, (Hear, years unfortunately witnessed, there were features in the present po li t i ca l arrangements of the world, of long en that, totally irres p ective of the disturbances we had of late durance, which forbade him to believe that we had arrived at that period of permanent and enduring tranquillity of which we heard so often.—( Hear, hear.) Ile must repeat that, so long as he found the strongest places in the possession of the weakest powers, so long as he observed that throughout Europe and Asia the richest countries were under the do ballo t ; a r b r u a n t g h e e : of things which would lead no doubt hereafter, he state d on t t h in a g t ent minion of the poorest sovereigns, he felt that that was a hoped not in our times, to very great changes, which he could not believe would be effeeted by any other agency than war.—(Hear, hear.) Upon the measure which h is Right lion. Friend had explained to to the House he would, as he hoped no division would take place, scarcely Witch , pa was o t p h o e s e e but in answer to the sight Hon. Gentleman the Member for Perth, he must say that from him he collected that his chief might remind the Right Hon. Gentleman that offensive the mea ment was introduced absolutely. Mr. F. MAULE—The Right Hon. Gentlemanquite mis understood me. I maintained that there could be t no silicon militia system without the ballot. osuprpeoswithioicni ohetlhleadmie:insulsreelfw The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER continued .—lle was glad to perceive that the elements of opPo iti°ll were already diminishing.—(" Hear, hear," and No, Gen no.") At all events, he would remind the Riht lion. Gen tleman that in this case the question of the ballot was a matter of opinion. It was impossible for the Bight Hon. Gentleman Qr for the Goyerument to refer to PAY data on such a point which could influence the opinion of the i tion was one of the most important upon which they aould House. He could say the Government had g i ven thi s su b- go to the country. It was one which would affect the whole ject the most painful investigation, that they had consulted tone tenour, and character of the Administration. Before the highest military authorities, that they had weighed all Parliament could ask the people to assent to such a men the evidence before them with the utmost attention they sure, it was incumbent thoroughly to sit the mode in which could command, and that the result of their inquiries was, the present resources of the werecountry este i n wasused. expr ess ed erprined that they had arrived at a different conclusion from the ciple whic h g uided him on this qu Right Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.) In case this Measure in this avowal, that he woule rather see 10,000 efficient should; be adopted by Parliamhnt, of course the future must regulars added to the army, than that 100,000 in determine which had formed the correct judgment, but he dustrious artisans should be converted into a militia force. begged the Right Hon. Gentleman to understand that there He therefore appealed to the Right Hon. Gentleman whe was, upon the part of the Government, a conviction that ther it was his intention to decide upon this matter without voluntary enlistment might be appealed to in raising a mi- going to the country? Having determined 'not to decide litia with great and even complete success (Hear, hear)-- u p on one i mpor t a nt question, concerning which it was well and this was a measure which he agreed with the Right known the country had come to a thoroughly unanimous Hon. Gentleman the f u ture alone could decide. With these opinion, without referring it to the people, and this notwith few observations he would again express the hope which he standing the subject had been sifted for many years, he ear had already ventured to express, that notwithstanding some- nEstly asked the G ove rnment whether they considered it what of fiery addresses from some H. Gentlemen opposite, wise or p o liti c to ta il upon the Misuse of Commons imme the House -would see that it would Ye the fairest and most diately to decide upon a question which had not been sifted, friendly course, in the present position of the question, to and which was not thorqughly well known and understood allow the Bill to be brought in. There would be ma n y o p - by the count ry._(. Question, question !") portunities when it could be most amply discussed herea f t er, M r. OSBORNE wished the Bill to be laid on the table and they must all feel that no general discussion could be that the opinion of the country might be taken upon it. satisfactory until they had the provisions of the Bill before Mr. WALPOLE reminded the House that the m otion for them. He trusted, therefore, that no division would t ake leave to brin g i n the Bill had already been agreed to; and place at the present stage. the object of the present motion was to authorise certain in- Mr. BRIGHT thought that the appeal which the y had dividuals o brin g in th e Bill in obedience to that decision. just heard from the Right Hon. Gentleman was somewhat Should the House accede to the motion, it was not his inten singular, seeing that the Right Hon. Gentleman sat w h e re tion to p ro p ose the second reading after Easter. he did through a violation of the very rule w hich he wished The motion was then a g reed them now to observe ; but really, after a fortnight upon the The report of the Committee of Supply WAS brought up, benches opposite, Hon. Gentlemen acquired a gravity of and the resolutions were agreed to. face which enabled them to ask anything from the other EXCHEQUER -BILLS. aide of the House.—(Hear, hear.) The order of the Home, Upon the report of the Committee of iirays and Means, also, to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had so pathetically being a vote for 17,742,800/. Exchequer-bill s , referred, had passed before the Right Hon. Gentlema n Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked when these bil l s ' would b e re enlisted under the banners of the vindictive Noble Lord who dee med, and what was the rate of interest? sat below the gangway.—(" Ob, oh," and laughter.) He The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said they hoped, now that the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton would b e redeemed next June, and until next June it wan had played tit for tat with the Noble Lord the Member for not possible to say the amount of interest. London, that they should , hear no more of the differences Mr. HUME said that the Chancellor of the aExchequ er between them.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gen- shou'd take the o p inion of the House before set tling tch the tleman stated that his Hon. Friend the Member for price of Excheq uer-bills. It was his dut y the to w . the West Riding had argued against any defence whatever, market, and to make the cheapest possible bargain for the on the assumption that the time had arrived when no such public. defence was necessary; but that was not a correct repre- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the sentation of the case, for his Hon. Friend did not lose sight present object was merely to complete an arrangement which of the fact, that at this moment they were voting for that had been commenced in January last. The rate of interest very defence three times the sum which the General Go- was settled then, and it was not in the power of the House vernment of the United States required for its military or the Minister to alter the contract. Next June it would be purposes, and for the whole services of its general govern- open to them to propose a new arrangement. ment, and that they were voting 15,000,0001. annually for Mr. GLYN thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman was the very purposes which the Right Hon. Gentleman took under some mistake. s ae the bills of January had to be re upon him coolly to suppose they were altogether neglecting. newed in March. WM they were now voting would apply —(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of to June. He believed there was no instance within the last the responsibility he felt with reference to this measure as a century in which the interest on Exchequer-bills had been member of the Government. He could only say that the lower than at present, but there never was a time when there Government had no responsibility whatever upon the sub- was so much money lying unemployed in the Bank of Eng ject, provided the opinion of the country were adverse to the land as at the present time. He thought it was the proposition.—(Oh, oh.) He would not argue the case, be- bounden duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to go cause he took it for granted that a representative Govern- into the money-market and make the best arrangement he ment was not bound to raise taxes and establish new aye- could, always taking care that the rate he fixed on was not tems of defence, if the public were opposed to it ; and there so low as to bring the bills into disrepute. was another kind of protection which they were going to The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the abandon upon that very ground.—(Hear.) He would not Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House that he en refer to the military part of the case, lest he should rouse tirely agreed with the principles which he had laid down some belligerent major or pugnacious admiral, but he asked , respe ctin g Exchequer-bills. H e was tipmeserfectl did y aw not are that if we had been now 37 years without a militia force, if no any rate which had been paid in former apply evil had resulted from the abandonment of the Bill of 1848, to the time in which we live. But he only rose to correct and if this measure were not the result of panic, that they tbe lion. Gentleman in saying that the rate of interest on should postpone it for some little time longer, in order to Exchequer-bills had not rested with the present Government, take the opinion of the country upon it. The first cost of this since they had been in office, but that the arrangement was force was estimated at 400,0001., but when the arms were in- made by their predecessors. eluded he took it for granted that the question was, whether Mr. WILLIAMS said the rate was settled in March, and they should involve themselves in an expenditure of at least the Exchequer-bills were exchanged in June. He thought 1,600,0001. in the next five years, To come to the working they ought not to allow the Chancellor of the Exchequer to of the measure. Of course they will find it much more have this vote without a distinct understanding what easy to raise volunteers where work was scarce and wages the rate of interest was to be. The present rate of interest ranged at from Is. to ls. 6d. a-day, as in the south-western was 21. ss. 7id. per annum, which was more than 2e per counties, than in Lancashire or Yorkshire, where work was cent. The Bank 'of England was now lending money at 2 abundant, and the wages averaged from 2s. 6d. to ss. He per cent., and he was informed that bills were now dis assumed that in these latter districts the voluntary system counted in the City at as low a ra te as 1i per would fail, and that recourse must be had to the ballot. cent. • and bills which had even six months ton a run t 2 percent Did the Right Hon. Gentleman know the system on which He did not see why Government Bills should not be consi capital and labour were connected there? Let the Hon. sidered as good as private bills; and, indeed, it was, for the Gentlemen enter a woollen or cotton manufactory , where premium o n Exche q uer Bills amounted to a year and. a there were some hundreds or might be a thousand persons half's interest. He thought that interest at the rate of ld. employed, and he would see the raw material going on per day would be quite sufficient. He considered' that the through a succession of processes, and being worked up in late Chancellor of the Exch e q uer was g uilt y of a g reat j ob machinery of the most costly haracter until the whole in giving so much more interest than was requisite. manufacture was completed. The employment in all Mr. MASTERMAN said, what they were now doing was those mills was by a succession of links. The merely to authorise the substitution of one set of Exche chain of industry was of a most ingenious and quer Bills for another. It had nothing to do with the rate wonderfully arranged character. It was the most of interest. important and most productive industry in the Mr. HUME said this was a vote to renew the Bills, but country ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to take he was not aware whether it was to renew - the Bills due he by ballot the men between the ages of 18 and 35 who were March or June, and he thought this was the time to fix the engaged in those delicate, difficult, and skilled operations. rate of interest. He should like to know how the Right Hon. Gentleman's Alderman THOMPSON said he supposed the Chancellor project would work in those manufactories; because that was of the Exchequer would advertise, at the proper time, to a question which they would have to meet, and from the renew the Bills, and he would then fix the rate of interest, difficulties of which they would find it impossible to escape.— and he had no doubt he would exercise a proper discretion (Hear, hear.) It was all very well for the Government to upon it. take an airing on the British lion, as was said of the Noble The motion was then agTlNYreed toBILL. Lord the Member for Tiverton , the ot her ni g ht—(Lau g hter) MU —but when they came to work the question, and when the The House then went into Committee on the Mutiny Bill balloting system was put in operation, they would find that In reply to Mr. HUME , it was not the great capitalist alone, b ut the workmen whom Mr. BERESFORD stated that the vote for the Kafir war they were about to withdraw from their regular and well- would be taken on Friday. paid industry who would be the steady and implacable ene- Mr. A. HASTIE moved an amendment on the 61th clause mica to the measure now proposed. And it was not merely of the Bill, to relieve private families in Scotland from the • because they would take away men from their work who billeting of soldiers. were earning 3s. or 4s. per day, and subject them to the Mr. BERESFORD said that in England there was a evil 'influences of the militia drill, that this opposition large number of licensed victuallers, who were required to would be excited. It was because it would break receive soldiers upon billets. In Scotland, however, the a link in the chain of which he had spoken, and would con- number of licensed victuallers was small; and the practice sequently do twenty times the mischief that it would do if for 140 years had been to billet soldiers, when necessary, unskilled and agricultural labourers merely were taken away upon the inhabitants. The subject had been referred to the from the employment in which they were engaged. He Judge Advocate, who expressed his opinion that any altera entreated the Government to neamine this argument before tion of the law would be a great hardship upon the licensed bringing in their measure, and see whether they did not victuallers, and that under the present system the grievance think it entitled to some weight. There was only one ob- of which the inhabitants complained was very slight. servation he was desirous of making with regard to the Mr. HUME asked how private families in Eugiand would general principle. He was afraid that by the establish- like to have soldiers sent into their houses at any hour of the ment of a militia system and bringing 80,000 men through a day, some of them having female servants and little accom military training as proposed, they would be laying the foun- modation ?—(A laugh.) dation of two great evils in this country. One was, that in After a few words from Mr. Cowart and Mr. DUNCAN, times of great suffering and political discontent the people the Committee were about to divide, but would be taught to refer to conflicts in the street for a re- Mr. P. HOWARD expressed a hope that the Government medy to political grievances, rather than to debates and di- would consent to consider the grievance complained of. visions in that House.—(Hear, hear.) The other was, that The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Go in consequence of the military spirit thus cultivated, the vernment was perfectly willing to consider every grievance, people would gradually be led to the toleration of great but he could not think that at one o'clock in the morning the armies; and great armies, as they all knew, were of all in- Committee would be asked to divide upon this Bill. stitutions those which were most hostile to the security Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL thought it would be better not to and permanent freedom of nations.—(Hear, hear.) press tbe case now. He begged, in conclusion, to put to the Chancellor The amendment was then withdrawn, and the Bill passed of the Exchequer—seeing that, as the Government them- through Committee. selves had confessed, there was no urgency with respect to The Marine Mutiny Bill also passed through Committee. the Bill—seeing, as he (Mr. Bright) had sho wn, that it The House having resumed, leave was Oaten to Mr. would interfere materially with the industry of a large class Bouverie to bring in a Bill to abolish the criminal jurisdic of the people—seeing that it would cause a great additional tion of the Ecclesiastical Courts in certain cases (the Hon. taxation, and lay the foundation of something new in this Member referred to cases of brawling and defamation); to country, at least in modern times—whether he ought not to Sir W. Jolliffe, to bring in a Bill to continue an Act of postpone the measure until the meeting of the next Parlia- the 1241da year of her present Majesty, to prevent the spread ment, when the opinion of the country would be ascertained ing of contagious or infectious disorders among sheep, cattle, respecting it.— (Hear, hear.) There was an admirable pre- and other animals ; to Lord Naas, to bring in a Bill to con cedent for this in the conduct of the Government with re- tinue certain Acts relating to linen, hempen, and other 121 A-. ference to the question of protection. He confessed he did nufactures in Ireland. not anticipate that if he should have the honour of being re- Mr. KERSHAW moved that the Select Csenmittee on turned again to that House, there would be any change in Manchester and Salford Education do consist of sixteen his views on this subject; because he felt that he was backed Members, and that Mr. Pilkington be added to the in his opposition to it by the universal opinion of the consti- Committee. tuency which he represented. He had also heard that at Mr. WALPOLE objected to the constitution of the Com- Sheffield a petition against the measure had been signed by mittee being altered; it would prevent the report from being 2,500 electors out of 4,000, the highest number which had satisfactory. ever polled in that borough. Surely the Government would Sir W. CLAY said, that the Nonconformist party, whe not proceed with the measure in the face of a remonstrance had been such friends to popular education, were certainly so important.—(Hear, hear.) entitled to have more than one representative upon the Mr. WHITESIDE had had RO intention of addressing the Committee. The Committee, as at present constituted, could House, but some opinions which had been expressed by the not give satiATTENsfaction to that bodythat the friends of the volun- Hon. Gentleman who had j ust sat down induced him to Mr. W. P agreed trespass for a few moments on the attention of the House. tary principle ought to have a voice in the Committee. The Hon. Gentleman bad talked of the gravity with which There was a majority of 10 out of 15 Members of the Corn the Chancellorof the Exchequer had asked him and those mittee who were hostile to the merits of the Bill that was who thought with him to permit the Bill to be introduced to be submitted to them. If the Hon. Member for Stock.. to the House; and perhaps the Right Hon. Gentleman had port persisted in moving his resolution, he should move, a s erred in expecting that the Hon. Gentleman, who was so an amendment, that the number of Members upon the Com sensitive with respect to a " pugnacious t t miral, and bel- mittee be seventeen, in order that there might be one more ligerent major-generals"—(Hear, hear) —would exercise so Member to do justice to the Bill before the House. So little much forbearance as to permit a measure the principle of chance was there in the opinion of the promoters of the which had been approved by the House, to be laid on the Bill that justice would be done to them, that there was table.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had also se- every inclination to withdraw it. He did not think it pel verely censured the conduct of the Nob le Lord the Member Bible that the Bill, with a select committee containing soi for Tiverton; but he was hardly s e charitable as might many decided opponents, could have a fair chance in its have been expected of him with regard to the motives which future progress. actuated public men in the course they took on great and Mr. KERSHAW would not object to the committee important questions. Notwithstanding, however, the being increased to 17. weight of the lion. Gentleman's censure — and he admitted Mr. M. GIBSON said that the friends of secular inatruc that the censure must be estimated by its weight and tion complained of not being quite fairly represented in the the height from which it fell—(Hear, hear)—he (Mr. committee. He agreed with his Hon. Friend that those who Whiteside) was still of opinion that the public would have represented voluntary views ought to have a fair h er nu in little di ffi culty in deciding whether the Noble Lord, in the this committee. He was not, theref ore , adverse to bayin course he had taken on th i s q uestion, : had been actuated by mination of another Gentleman of their views; but, unworthy motives or by a patriotic desire to serve the best agreed with the Home Secretary as to the interests of his country.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had now proposed, the interests of all parties would be beat con urged them to leave the question of a militia to the decision stilted by not disturbing the present arrangement. of the hustings. Was this the Constitution of England e_. The House then divided, when there aPPea red (Hear, hear.) Was every question to be submitted to the For Mr. Kersha ' - ... 24 committee as w s motion... '" 53 hustings?—(Hear, hear.) Were Members of that House Agaiust it •• ... ••• ~. - 29 mere delegates, bound to act according to the instructions of Majority '" '.. ... 1 ' lock. t h e i r constituents? or were they to g i v e their con s ti t u e nt s The Hou se adjourned at 20 in itiates Past o c the benefit of their judgment, their knowledge, their reason, and their experience upon the questions which were sub mitted to them?—(Hear, hear.) The Hon Gentleman had said he would not argue the question with them, and he must do him the justice to say that he had not argued the ques tion.—(A laugh.) Whenever the Hon. Gentleman spoke on questions connected with , the manufacturers he always listened to him with interest, because he was sure to derive instruction and profit from him ; but he must frankly say that the same vigorous intellect was not apparent when the Hon. Gentleman talked upon questions with which he not particularly acquainted.—(Bear.) lie (Mr. Whites ide) vi wa s wished to *k the Hon. Member for the West Ridi e n ' for whom he entertained a strong personal respect, and who, he admitted, was entitled to : , ; the respect of every Member of the House on account of the constituency h e re presented and his own great ability—he appealed to the Hon. Member whether when he sp oke o f seeing universa l peace on earth established, he real ly be li eved that the e nearl)re anyevidence of t he see sent condition of the world afforded approach of that happy state of thin gs? rational liberty making progress, and ' Did b d e etetice tr i e umphant ?—(Hear.) He rather thought he addressing the virtue ale, -L ee . And when the Hou. Member talked French Government to disband their t s h ol e d i fers their ships, he wished to et nab r iflie would ask the Hon. tt' e— e An non. Member a m bassador undertake to be the (Laughter.) s p ea r s ha du Aga inst hat danger which this measure was ' mber htao gu as in intended finitesimal ; but with gr th ea t . respell he begged to say that dance of a danger was to be estimated not so much b e y iniP4l "t e th e assailin g s f ha t t haau H t Hon. Member eb bi taS e rsi m Yd b .—o e f r force the object threatened. as by the inestimable Now, in the present case' value of threatened was the n ate objen n t e greatness of of importance to pro "trite' of the empire, and ,i,t danger, o if it were only for the pro tect this even from a lona" happiness and contentmoetite was tvh it would secure. It was just for the preservation a wise economy to cep° u ' w hat of the people. - ger to be apprehended from that Withrengard to France, he rejoiced to hear that there was 11° eta circumstances. But, : supposing the country under ew er o f that country were to b e wielded b y vast military Id there be no danger then to this kingdom ? one hand, w°eould in itself furnish just ground of caution. That den The ecgteor f w all government was to give protection to all ob j , mons. in the kingdom, and this measure was to classes o ' Pe protection. afford tbat , - ROEBUCK understood that the object of the Govern -slr. I present was to introduce a Bill upon the subject of i nent a the Ini 'lithe He was himself extremely anxious that that should be done, for the reasons which had been given by the Hon. Member for Manchester. lie believed that it was no t desirable that there should be any division on t subject at present, but that the Bill should be laid on the table, with the understanding that the Government should go to the country upon the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He could understand that it was not the wish of the present Govern ment to go to the country upon one isolated measure, but that they should propound what was the general tone and team of their policy, Nov, ho oppas,lered the moat time- ---_-_----r-- - '- ------ PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. -------"."1"--- ...... (From the V otes a nd Proceeding s of the 21 °use of Commons.) MONDAY, MARCH 29. MANcgEST.E.R AND SALFORD EDUCATION. an d Question propos ed, " That the Select Motion made , Committee do co nsist of sixteen Members:'—Amendment leave o ut " sixteen," and insert " sevente en , ' proposed, to instead therea. ,—Question put, " That the Select Committee do consiit o f sixteen Members." The House divided;— f i IINORITY—AYES, 24. Andy , Thomas HeYweod, James Thicknease, R. A. Hindley, C. BellJ ocib Thompson, Oolonel HOW, r. s. Ilobhouee, T. B. Thomely, Thomai Covran, Charles Milligan, Robert Wawn, J. T. Dunca n, George Milner, W.M. - Williams, John Fans, John Nugent, Sir Percy Wyld, James Nwart, William Seholelleld, ,, WilliaM TELL7.IIB. Greene, John Sullivan Michael Kershaw, James Elastie, Alexander Tenneut, R. J. Clay, Sir W. MAJORITY—NOES, 53. Adderley, C. E. Dunne, Colonel Mulling's, J. B. Arkwright, George Edwards, Henry Naas, Lord Bagot, William Forbe s, W. Napier, Joseph Bankes, George Freestun, Colonel. Patten, J. W. Barrington, Lord Gaskell, J. M. Scott, F. Beresford, William Gibson, Thomas M. Somerton,iVisCOlMt Booth, Sir K. G. Greene, Thomas Spooner, K. Bouverie, E. P. Gwyn, Howel Stafford, Augusttui Bridges, Sir B. Hamilton, G. A. Trollope, Sir J. Burghley, Lord Henley, J. W. Vyse, B. H. Cardwell, E. Hope, Sir J. Walpole, Spencer Carew, W. 11. P. Howard,Whiteside, iames Carter, J. B. Jolliffe, Sir W. 11. Wynn, H. W. Chichester, Lord J. Knox, W. S. Yorke, E. T. Christy, S. Langton, W. 11. P. Young, Sir jow l Cobbold, John C. Lennox, Lord II G. Cotton, W. S. Manners, Lord J. TELLIES. Disraeli, B. March, Earl of Mackenzie W r Duckworth, Sir J. Masterman , John Hamm, i. hom a; The Notts Guardian states that M r . Ro g er O'Connor, the nephew of Mr. Feargus O'Connor;' M.P., has appealed to the En glish , Chartists to r a i se f un d s f o r his "un fortunate relative. ' _ . ---- Tke Earl of Derby has accept e d, sa ys the Preston Cla muck, the office of Presiden of the Roy shire Agricultural Society, al North and has promised to attend the annual meeting at Preston, in September. [ADvEunsExErrr.]—Tit E AR L, or ALD l3Ol ° l7 ° ll Ann HOLLOWAY'S PILLB.—An astounding cure by this miraculouil medicine, aster every other means had failed' see extraet from his Lordship's letter, dated .. villa messing, Leghorn, Feb 21, 184 k Professor Holloway—Sir :I beg to acqua int you that your pills have et. fected a cure of a disorder in my liver au eminent of the faculty, at home and all over d '"u lh e eco w n hi tin ell e al nt l , th had e m n os ot been able to effectwaters of Carlsbad or Ma rienbad. ; nay, not even tee (Signed) " Amsoaotren." cure any disease of the liver or stonlach• These wonderful pills will —Sold (also Holloway% Ointment) at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, strand, SUM ipi al gle,agbao yonur o ib aug h9o of 9.liPt4 .Ir9ruh THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 3o, 1852.