The Sun. — London, England, 1835-03-10 00:00:00

:viiig an)' • yht be c hat t he he Act, viz. measures. URNEY. b a d tice which he of T. P . Gurnes , ren ted that he Pr minister or., ing bent be the incum t he t. Exeter, inee, this small i?r, Lordshipi c t o t o d u ct acter and 5 et his reque t ro be the Hon. M e t i. a nd the Ve i t m ight be br ft, u rbe revision IMP _,, provision at : a dcuety'J, . m i ng their g oo , ;loner. 'r he a for ould be ma e, e U riously labourenelp sines of the ing 1 A X. netitioo, is r- 0 0 le could not in.. himself to v ai ' , / , e 'embarrass or , 0 rafter re-a ~A i t Governorn t as He ial Benches.) the o perforalt_ d in i n bil duty require es the ealed, 90(1' d 0011 , be impo se o d average v - - h our own' Me ti Or the 1. 011 . be bad 3n to which , )le alto t o some °be, ge t ned it coder. Gentleman tow cal duty on ' hea vy; )resent very. _do, petition he 13 * sti° l4 em ber's obsrosts petition n bich . to the bu svitb mparisou t i t b o f s ubject toe do, t i on which th ;ore e cons idere 111 d . : to o to anY 14 e had the o P a rteo res which llasoisc• , g aged I/ 2 4 O S e sth Jan he u oet he Hon. Gellt" motion vl° raia tY t a ken the was now b eib .fia 111 p to 15 33, t hi s might eedr b foV °‘ va s anxious 401. lich the Ho" brel le° made froth Or ly kind of ° P o t)/ fitting motions authority. 000, e few °Wr y w wi: ao t"--r pot that be 113 A o f $ 1 ; mot i o n, an eat la.ugh t V:i e i rbi r Lid not consl e. n in the puac t, IS be 0 4 , , use objen— Or: ,ught that the _biot+ osite wood ° luite regu „rine cm to it. irns from t I, - e gee 11 to. NIERS. o of present 4 ospita , whoeep t of him to. a : c „,,, s of recen'imtlie io uid there. ire t eed to te e ' he ;0431 Ofn ee ' bst. suequee v tly t .01 f gl oir infit.,.ion :. ners.--e. ar ; to appliett ° Oos Greeniviev, cum stances, The I d ly treated. loi M an ice at the e, d, absolutely sirst'i; sk whether pis, 'pensionag d unjust antl e ;se that thr was ti ? ‘.cl anO er Ac e.. J msion his letter b oa i s t f t that the P He thong..# , st sistent, an 00 0„ ins to the fesaseh'i and unclr o li ti os apply t and the Hon' T he ccasion. d big ro tioner , at 81 0, . n s ) en a,4 ion, th e ,S e yl, l ;o' 'Lord As", a lios • le ite ss. - .0 Ise was go on( w ho o r, ireio-ners t.eea 0 , ere ° had .4 ble in terl d ra ha d eying he, sii sruf l e Boa r o rr v, of the In atte la dr of LditionallY• 01 ' O l )ught be lad alwa y s 06404 ,al office. discover a be il lorea as he said fro 0 01 v had falleoooootoss 33 and jaghio A O my assn to ricy ard to spPot ers to ev er („4 l ,oo am b e r of e h ': a et with tea ce P inly one a! i a . ha il , lu s o. aid that c, e tbr.kes uld ask w ic o aro tsc c a h men t fe r 111/ such , it be bott.gD ee nsg, it w ay of 0 1 ,.. 5 o r 5 along to t 'f, 00 . 51 t there v i es T io n: r .el a the V bet . 0 ial 1 0 0 dmiralty,._ile" ply st posr: r fl t ° ,`' of the P °- rde' er g o mon, . 00 10 ! t been be 10 d to t ? ought t iler' 0 0 r in act a to fore the r estore u b ' en of i 1832, I v 050 ofuP 'o le case je been reaurt H. H su . ) PP t ° b eco a tir rsl ,o: lo s 0 it he ir a r It ° t Memb e f l o sif n t be in sto . tbe bee cases in h ad the n av Y 00 1) ar al° e gl at a lbe ~,a s __O a fair _ e was ve bile 3 ro na a lent, . ars' Pltnr co e v simila r be be b u t a go, it ,p ay so s t h at pa As it to .g gr. b to or , t h a t he 02,' 0 ,0 no fr. ) the 41 , w l ed to bolo to re latter rel. ible. c ol o r he 54 . ,1$ daY," e%r ;atisfactorY ;ition• f e buek" °O. the in ten"l i•D ` c° tit" tition tvico e t oe t t the t i .iac r Y n • to c° n " bre° f t a t in , cr e tions c , tb to to do e tition o po se P. n to Pr do D uo- to .deicing will not now be considered as an invariable rule of - the House, or be quoted against me hereafter as a precedent, should I find it my duty to refuse to adopt a similar course. For the present, however, I shall waive the objections I have to enter upon the consideration of petitions at this hour of the night. Mr. RO EBUCK expressed his thanks to the Right Hon. Baronet for the course he took, and then proceeded to ex plain to the House the statements contained in the petition he had to present. It was a petition, he said, from certain There rn was members of th e L eg i slative Council, and the House of As sembly of L ower Canada, complaining of certain grievances. no proportion between the number of Catholics and Protestants in Canada, and the same stone-blind System seemed to he adopted there, which prevailed Ireland, for the purpose of maintaining a Church Establishment which was not agreeable to the whole mass. There were thirteen millions of republicans near them ready, thethe fi rst opportunity, to overturn that system, and to act part which was acted by the United States. He did not w i s h to see such a result, but it must inevitably accru e if the present system was pe rs i s t e d i n . Aft er a ll u di ng to th e acts of the late Government in reference to the judicial authorities of Canada, he implored the sympathy of the House In behalf of the vast body of people for whom he was Speaking, Th e con d uct of the judicial authorities was as disag reea b le to the people of the Canadas as that of a certain Lord was to Ireland. The Hon. Member quoted from a speech of Burke a passage, in which the orator argued that the mother country should always construct the govern °lent of her colonies according to the particular temper and character of the people. That had not been done in reference to Canada, and he therefore called for a re-modi fication of the Government of the Canadas, or the fate of those would be the same as that of the United States.—( Hear. ) The Honourable Member here entered into a number of details respecting the conduct of Lord Alymer and of , the public a ut h or i t i es i n Canada, of whom he com- Pained in very strong terms, but he spoke in so Mandible a voice that it was only possible to near occasionally a few words he said. The Hon. Member was understood to complain of the appointment of a Mr. Gale, w hom th e present Government had taken the first opportunity °F recommending to Lard Aylmer (Gove rnor o f C ana d a ) as a al fi,t so and proper person to be a magistrate. The Hon. Member was und erstood to accuse Lord A. of incapacity for the govern raent of Canada, and of having been about to challenge in a duel the E x -Attorney -General of Canada. And all this conduct ! tnci misgovernment had taken place in a colony border ..4lg on the U n i ted States, and which of all others rcquir- V..L e to b e governed with the greatest prudence and ability. ttll c onsidered th at when official persons came before hat House and made st a t emen t s , th ey oug ht fi rs t to ascertain the accuracy o f t h em, b ecause i t was i mposs ib le ti't; what faith might be put in them. The next corn anit he h a d to make was there had been no quarantine regula- Th °llo Made when they were required. Application had been Wut Ittlwhie to the Gove rnor t o ma k e some a l terat i ons i n M ontrea l , ch were not attended to. He regretted that the Go -11-ertior should h ave forgotten his King and his country, in :P a case as this, for which he ought immediately to have been hom e and dismissed from the government of the colony. 1 , / ,' L e secretary of the Colonies ought not to have allowed the bl vule Lord one moment longer to have retained the com bo 1.4 Another complaint which he had to make was (which b ,, should do the more boldly, seeing an Hon. Gentleman ; 4 ° was connected with the Company in his place), ~gainst the Land Company of Canada. who attempted to inter 'ee with the internal regulations of Canada. He would caution i,,Y.,emigrant in supp os i ng t h at h e wou ld o b ta i n a t i t l e to an y ` 4 in Canada, because when they got out there the ould it very difficult to obtain a title.—( Hear, hear.) In w`-apada there was no law of promigeniture, a circumstance ,° 1 h led to the greatest confusion, as this thing was disposed iet to this son, and that to another, all of which had led to dis ns among families themselves, as well as that they had ex attniued and been made party questions by the neighbourhood , ara e . , a He should conclude by one observation respecting 0 , 0 - vo parties which formed that settlement. Certain per nlna had chosen to say that the English were the only legni rate proprietors of the soil, whilst the French were to be re ded a s a set of illiterate republican fellows. It would be hoe„wt, howevtr, at the next election, that the interests of ,: p n parties would be merged into one great principle ; but "" we from the statement to which he had alluded being cor et, he cou l d state for himself that out of a legislative assem jbly2f 8 7 members, there were not more than t e n o r twelve Pesing the E ng li s h party. H e would tell the Hon. tuber that nothing could have been more unfortunate than 4 7 . M 4 En g li s h party stepping in with contrary measures, at a 'e th at i t was supposed the people of England were about to ).„.eht do justi ce to t h e i r brethren of Canada. There never was before thi s H ouse a j uster ground of compla i nt t h an talievances of which th e p eop l e o f C ana d a comp l a i ne d, t Or one that would, if no t u l t i mate l y relieved, be more dange as to the constitution of that country. He did hope and ithout reference to party feeling or party spirit, that * Lie Gov ( rnment- would be led to approach this great ques tr with calmness and impartiality, that they would consider Veat interests connected with their determination, that ,_ t ee Ives t o b e ma i nta i ne d , an d t h at that could only be pre doing away with that detestable f ac ti on —th e legis kite co until. The Iletition was then brought up. wa n i d 8 ,-• RICE rose and said that he trusted the House eadulge him while he offered some explanation traa s ,L e Pa-ct to the share which he had taken in those t on • - ' - doni,, and while he made some reply to the observe litlm e g th e Honourable Member who had just sat down. a nhject was one which might not be deemed very ass r o ,, lt aet by some Honourable Members, but he could th e thos aof them who, perhaps, had not attended to Port ent of the details of the subject that one more im con2:3, to, tie real interests of the country—whether they eor n - „,, lue ted. it with reference to its relations to Canada in a f ora -aerei,a b or general point of view—was never brought be lion Iliouse..—( Hear, hear.) In the concluding observe fully the speake r w h o h a d j us t sa t d own , h e a t l eas t least t approiteet. Th a t o b servat i on was t h at t h e H ouse should ri t ; ac h that question, involving not merely the pros ritrsh ° I, Lower Canada, but the connexions between ~and • th - • Forth America and that country with calmness i°l * ; that was all he (Mr. S. Rice) asked tie ea r, hear, he only wished that the Hon. al.a ,„„ s " l an who gave that good advice would have shown that Pr od 1 e inciple actuated him, and that he would have ap taste-ed ti ,at subject as he (Mr. S. Rice) intended to do, 'fat e °f it idulging in imputations and personalities upon pri oafY * -u4r act Cr. He must say that the Hon. Gentleman, not upo n 11 1 re ference : to that debate, but upon former debates iatr °d P l at alubject' by the' tone of asperity which he had aad ka,„ ° 7 ll ced his speeches (he, Mr. Rice spoke with a full . 1; 1 ",•ze oi! the facts), had done more to , create difficulties, taj,„,ad daro w n more difficulties in the way of an amicable i ;wle at, th ati all the efforts he could ever make would do haep.; wit b. Fo r was i t to go abroad that a British Senator gota it a s hi s opinion that if the people of Canada did All they asked for they were entitled and advised to ak fr ota t t i, ae se violent measure' s which severed the United States Ilec es :a Briti s h C rown?—( Cheers from both sides.) Was i t k he n 4t s 7 to appe a l to t h e f ears o f t h e H ouse o f Commons, ;ho wl _,"e lion. G en tl eman k new p er f ec tly we ll, f rom h is ialti a . e `Te of its history, that he did enough by appealing to laas ac i* I :" . "( Gre a t c h eering.) H e w i s h e d t h e case to b e dis -44.0 ,n the spirit of calmness and temper.—( Hear.) Far was, say that Canada had not much to complain of. tNey h e A e m) That did not not stand on his admission alone ; of al it e ;_t, l it upon their records ; they had it in the despatches the ,14;` ) ;°vernors ; they had it in the admission of almost all eas le - L •a'sters of the country. E 5, did not mean to decide the ar s ?, words, but to go into facts, and he would take a ar 1 ) , - , t his duty compelled him to. He would not go so ti nte 7-a as the lion. Gentl eman , b u t Nvould only go from the the Canadiar, affairs were brought most fairly before 1 8k :use—the appointment of the Canada Committee in r , •ICheers.) It was not for him to, decide whether the left to ° l_ Canada of that day would not have been much better t aitt e ,. l • ll ,e Government of the day than sent to that C?rn all ex a ms ,nt't he would say that no Committee ever went • into ; a l aria tion with a better spirit, or more determined to e ° the • bottom any abuses that were brought before them. datiolltnlosa that could be expected was that the recommen be e ll a x of the It Committee should be carried into effect, and l'ethaZ a tlingly regretted that they had not. Information, xappi was ‘ l efective, but up to 1830 no pains were taken to ti a * t t l ," defic,'ency. The Hon. Gentleman, the Member a ° was mistaken as to the cause of the severance 1,748.1,-- was had all ‘ ided. A Committee was appointed last t'eefith' eaTioituswea,s an a ti geeed that the evidence should be laid f or the br7inegt .f ..‘ or the purpose of raising a charge, down his own private copy of that i;eiritaitteei were r the purpose -'f raising a charge. On that the names . of 3 , 1 r. iio r• i ,9 o 4 . lbu rn Roebuck, Mr. E. Lewis, Mr. Denison,Mr. Lord Sandon, Lord er• Labouchere, Mr. F. Ba."ing , Itt t ,. • Bulwer, &c. During the Sir H. Hardinge, 1 0 '" there had been a division, and ye i.- t: a s j... 1 n before the Committee, there was only one case . in o n g o re . s , s of the inve!., +withstanding the thethriagiiltatement and the expressed and implied OM Member which the House had just 11,.*ard againstaccusations of laan7Le Colonial Secretary and the Committee on that occa debtie (Mr. Rice and the Hon. Member (Mr. k ali _ on theam e side —( Cheers.) Nay, more, the H0 n. .,, bje,r was a party to the drawing up of the report, and tn sa r Inn vvhich he now took was an objection in a great mea te to hiskr ow n act. --(Hear ) k e Pa . p it er OEß LICK said the gentleman had better wait till t he .s were regularly produced. He (Mr. Roebuck) d . e h el d having the passage referred to. It was true n Who tid e d r aw up the report, but then he was not the person passage.—( Laughter. ) that RI CE did not know whether the House would receive lot„_ ,Planation as a satisfactory one. If the- Gentleman be ,ilgiaento the majority who drew up the report, and who Itia, surely ed the addition of that passage and the amendment, to il, f ..,,,_ in common fairness he should be considered a party tli ere s •"" e ers- ) The report of the Committee declared that at kost as evinced on the part of the Colonial Department the to carry into effect the report and the recom .llo,, e.ticn, of the Committee of 18 9 8 for the object of pr0 %'1.17 %'1.17 the ,'nterest of the colonies, pending the investigation. ir n ir °M a tlispoeition being evinced by the Colonial Office impede tattarthe inquiry, or mar its objects, there was, on the el ac p a Y, not a single letter. public or private, which could fo re te the r ea l bearings of t. l / 4 e case, that was not laid be thethe Committee. There w,75 nothing left undone by Davie overnment. Every fact, great and small, within the :liee,tstr,t;tlf.oltlhe Colonial Department to submit was submitted to Ge ntleman Cheers.) After this could the Hot? I +, e atan with any show of decency or justice maintain his ?--( Hear, bear.) But this was not all.' The re atig'eed to by the Committee was adopted not on the exa ,Sittt I °a of the witnesses of the Colonial Office, but of the ' 0 Ott tees on the other side.--( Renewed cheers.) It was agreed the Showing of the complaining parties. He would next beg to come to that part of the Learned Member's speech that referred to himself. After the Committee had been for some time sitting he had been named upon it, and he would take that opportunity of stating that from what he had ob served of the proceedings of the Committee, and from what he had heard of them before his taking an active part, he did not see any thing in the conduct of the Hon. Member that would lead to the conclusion that he did not act with fairness. Two Gentlemen had been deputed by the Canadian Legisla ture to attend the Committee and give evidence, and any ex planation that might be thought requisite. He believed they were not regularly commissioned by both Houses to substan tiate the claims of the colony ; the fact was he thought that they were only authorized to come by the Lower House. However, they did come, and he (Mr. Rice) hearing of their mission was anxious to see them, and the Hon. Member did introduce him to them. We understood him to say that there was an intention of introducing a Bill to take away from the Canadian Government the power of appropriating for colo nial purposes the money granted by this country. That- Bill, however, though the Hon. Member had dwelt on it with so much zeal and vigour had not passed—notice merely of it was given. That Bill was not proceeded with ; and if it were it should be on his ( Mr. Rice's) authority and responsibility. He (Mr. Rice) was most anxious that every concession should be made to Canada. He was sorry that concession was so long withheld, and would have no hesitation in saying that conces sion was made too late for the tranquillity, and comfort, and peace of that colony. He felt that if he succeeded in adjusting the affairs of Canada that he would have achieved a great triumph. He was anxious for that good object. He was charged with having promised to send a despatch, and having withheld it while its transmission, by developing the fa vourable views of Government, would have tranquillized and comforted the whole colony. The fact was that he had pre pared a despatch in which the friendly and liberal views of the Government were fully exposed. It was to be sent on the Monday, and two hours before the sailing of the packet it was found that the Government itself had been despatched. —( Hear, and laughter.) He then thought it right to send to Lord Aylmer and say that as the Government was changed, it was better his successor should settle the Canadian differ ences. It would be easy for him ( Mr. Rice) to say that he intended to do so and so, but he would not defend himself in that way.—( Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman might say that he went out of office without doing any thing. It might be said he entered into office in June, and what was he doing till No vember? His object was to benefit the colonies, and to do so he withheld the despatches till they might reach the colonies contemporaneously with the meeting of the Assemblies. He did not wish the opinion of the British Government to reach Canada before the opening of the Legislative Assemblies. The Honourable Gentleman had asked about particular facts ; among the rest as to the judicial appointments ; the ap pointment of Judge Gale was referred to. His (Mr. Rice's) reply was this, that as it appeared that Judge Gale had so far identified himself with the proceedings in Canada which led to the Committee of 1828, as he was so far committed as a partisan, he could not, though he was recommended by the Government, confirm his appointment.—( Hear.) There was another case, that of Judge Parr (we understood.) He had been a Judge of the Admiralty, and Chief Justice of the King's Bench. These were two appointments that were incom patible. In consequence of certain accusations brought home against him, he was dismissed from his situation as Judge of the Admiralty Court, and as he was then from misconduct removed from one office he (Mr. Rice) did not think him fit to fill the other, and he accordingly ordered his suspen sion.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the Admiralty Court he (Mr. Rice) should say that he thought the office of Judge of the Admiralty should be filled by Englishmen rather than by Frenchmen. There was one part of the petition to which the Right Honourable Gentlemen had not alluded, but to which he (Mr. Rice) thought it necessary to advert. Lord Dalhousie took upon himself the responsibility of dis posing of the unappropriated revenues after the Bill of Sup plies had passed the House of Assembly. The emergency was certainly great, and in the conduct he (Mr. Rice) pursued he acted on the advice of his colleagues. Two years' salary was due to the public officers. There was distress, urgent and enormous. To meet the exigency money was raised by the Canadian Legislature, and lie (Mr. S. Rice), in the full confidence that a Bill providing for the necessities of the case, and securing ample funds for the exigency would have been passed in November, ordered the money to be supplied from the funds of this country. He admitted the case of the Canadians was urgent. They had grievances to complain of, but then they should not be urged in the language of vituperation, of reproof, or of menace, as the Hon. Gentleman had done.— ( Cheers.) Where was the Hon. Member for Taunton ? He was ever the steady advocate of Canadian interests, but then he was never guilty of indiscretion, menace, or any thing that would touch on disaffection.—( Cheers.) He (Mr. R.) assured the Hon. Member ( Mr. Roebuck) that there was not a more zealous advocate of Canadian interests than he was. The Canadas were valuable of themselves ; but he considered them more valuable from their connection with England, a connection that he should ever labour to defend. He was sensible of their importance as States, and of their importance as provinces of England. Their wrongs and grievances he would consider with a strong predilection in their favour; yet he would be guided by the great principle of justice, and he should in alluding to them studiously refrain from the language, as he thought every Hon. Member should, of opprobrium or menace.--( Hear.) (The Hon. Member's peroration reached us as indistinct sounds.) Lord STA NL E Y and several Members rose at the same time. There were loud cries for his Lordship, and after some interruption his Lordship proceeded. He scarcely felt it ne cessary to trouble the House with any vindication of the policy of the Colonial Department of the State respecting the Ca nadas, after the explanation of the Right Hon. Member for Cambridge. His explanation was an ample vindication. As to the personal attacks upon himself, he thought he would better consult the dignity of the House and his honour, if he passed them without notice, indeed with contempt. With re spect to the charge of his slighting the interests of the Ca nadas, he would meet the charge with a positive denial of facts. Two gentlemen were sent by the Canadian House of Assembly, in order to expose the real or supposed wrongs of their State. They were patiently heard, and the result of the investigation was a full and convincing impression that the grievances were not clearly established. These Gentlemen were examined on each of the ninety-two charges, or bills of accusation, and yet, singular to say, they had established no one ground of justifiable complaint.--( Cheers.) On each count of the ninety-two accusations he (Lord Stanley) joined issue with the Deputies and their defendants here, and he got from the verdict of the Committee a triumphant acquittal. The Hon. Member himself might know all this, because it appeared on the face of his despatches, which were laid before the Committee, and which were consequently in his own pos session. He would only further say, that whatever his success might have been while in office, it was obtained altogether in consequence of his anxiously following up the course of policy recommended by his predecessor in office.—( Hear.) The steps he did take he took with the concurrence of his predecessor, and in consequence of the opinions expressed by him previous to his secession, and if they had proved successful, to that pre decessor was due the praise.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. ROBINSON t ruste d, t h at when the Canadian popu lation again desired to petition the House of Commons, they would select a more temperate advocate than the Honourable Member for Bath. A more unfair, distorted, or intemperate address than that of the Hon. Member, had never, he believed been uttered within the walls of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) He despaired seeing the question brought to anything like a satisfactory issue after such an exhibition as the House had that night witnessed. The present was not the first occasion the Hon. Member had recommended the Canadian people to appeal to arms. In a wild and visionary pamphlet he had be fore incited them to the use of force.--( Cries of " no, no.") Mr. ROEBUCK rose to order. The words he used were, " It is better to try everything before an appeal to arms." Mr. ROBINSON asked if that was not recommending an appeal to arms ?—( A laugh from Mr. Hume.) The Hon. Member for Middlesex laughed, but he was not much sur prised at that, as it was well known he and the Hon. Member for Bath entertained similar opinions on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member's " beautiful domination" letter was but too well known.—( Hear, hear.) In his (Mr. Robin son's) opinion nothing more tended to endanger the peace of the Canadian colonies than the course pursued by the Hon. Members for Middlesex and Bath. As for the Hon. Member for Bath he was nothing more than the Representative of Mr. Pappineau's faction in Canada, and a more intemperate con stituency he could not well have.—( Hear, and a laugh.) This individual, in an address to the Montreal people, had heaped upon him (Mr. Robinson) every species of abusive epithet and gross insult that could be strung together, and simply from the circumstance of his being the Governor of the British Ameri can Land Company, to which, for certain reasons, he was op posed. Among other things he had termed him a vile swind ler.—(A laugh.) In conclusion, the Hon. Gentleman en treated the House to look to the question brought under their notice dispassionately and fairly. Sir R. PE EL--I do hope, Sir, that this debate will not be continued ; but should it not meet the wish of the House that it should here stop, I do trust that it will be continued with out any further reference to Mr. Pappineau or his actions, to the Canadian party as opposed to the English party, or, in short, without further refer Ace to any of those exciting and unincidental topics with which it has pleased the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath to charge his speech. I am, how ever, inclined to hope that the course which his Majesty's Go vernment have resolved upon pursuing in reference to the sub ject, and which I am now about to announce, will be deemed - - a conclusive reason why the advice of the Hon. Member for Worcester should be generally followed, and why this discus. sion should at all events for the present be brought to an end. Before, however, I proceed to state the intentions of the Go vernment I must be allowed to say a few words in answer to an observation of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath. Re- ferrincr to the great d e l a y w hi c h h as t a k en place in the settle ment of' the disputed matter the Hon. and Learned Member said he attributed it altogether to the frequent chancres which had of late years occurred in the office of Secretary of e ' State for the Colonial Department, and concluded by recommending that a fixed office, not determinable on the changes in the Admi nistration, should be created for the management of colonial affairs. Such a remedy Ido not hesitate to say is one alto.. gether incapable of adoption.—( Hear.) The Executive for the time being, it is quite evident, must, as a body, be answer able for the management of the highly-important affairs coming under the jurisdiction of the Colonial Department. Now, how could that responsibility be attached to them if they were to have at the head of that department an officer altogether in dependent of their controul, and totally irresponsible to them for any acts he might direct in the management of those af fairs.—( Hear.) Such an arrangement could not be satisfac tory to any of the parties concerned in colonial matters ; and great as might be the inconvenience attendant upon frequent changes in the'office of Colonial Secretary I am prepared to maintain that the remedy proposed would be far from an im- q/A. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, IVIARCH 10, 1835. provement. I think I can, however, satisfy the Hon. Member that at all events the recent change in the Administration has not prejudiced the consideration of the present question, and that it shall not do so. lam ready, on the part of my Noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, to give the Honourable Member every pledge he may desire.—( Hear, hear, hear.) On the appointment of Lord Aberdeen he found this Canadian question in precisely the same condition it was left by the Committee which sat in 1830. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite has stated that when removed from office he was on the eve of proposing to his colleagues in office cer tain principles on which a settlement of the question should be sought. I believe that to have been the case ; but as the Right Honourable Gentleman has stated, of those preambles no record was left by him at the Colonial Office. For my part, and I am sure I may say the same on the part of my Noble Friend, I much wish that such a record was in our possession, because, in addition to the opportunity it would have given us of testifying our respect for the opinions of the Right. Hon. Gentleman, it could not but materially have assisted us in the task we had to perform.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentlemitn's motive for taking with him all the documents he had prepared on the subject no one can ques tion; it was that his successor in office should not be embar rassed by his views in forming his decision ; but, much as I am disposed to do credit to the proper spirit which characte rised his conduct, I cannot help repeating my regret that Lord Aberdeen should not have had the benefit of his opinions. How ever, notwithstanding the recent change of Government, and notwithstanding also the arduousness of the duties in which, immediately on his appointment as Secretary for Colonial Affairs, he finds himself involved, I am happy to say measures have already been taken to insure a settlement of the diffe rences.—( Hear, hear.) On our taking office we felt that the question demanded instant consideration, and we accordingly had it communicated to the colonial authorities that we were determined at an early period to proceed to the settlement of the disputes. With this view we authorised Lord Aylmer to inform them that his Majesty had determined to send out to Canada a Representative totally unconnected with local po litics, altogether unembued with local prejudices, and com pletely unmixed in Canadian affairs, who should be enabled on the spot to take a whole view of the subject, and being in full possession of the opinions and intentions of the Government here upon the several matters in disputa, might report upon the best and most satisfactory means for bringing them to a final adjustment.—( Hear, hear.) This is the course we pro pose to adopt. We felt the greatest difficulty in bringing the matter to a conclusion by written communications. There might be misunderstanding on some points, misinterpretation on others, and the distance between the two points rendering the clearing of those misunderstandings and misrepresenta tions a most tedious and difficult process, we, after mature de liberation, came to the resolution that it would be better to send out a person in full possession of our views and intentions in the several matters to be adjudicated, and enabled to enter into full communication with the Canadian authorities upon them. Our final intention is, upon a report of the real state of the case being made to us, to remove what is justly ob noxious, and in their place to propose those measures which we believe to be consistent with justice to the parties con cerned, and with sound policy as regards the general interests of the country.---( Cheers.) Under these circumstances I think the House will feel that I take the most prudent course in declining to enter further into the subject at present, and I at the same time hope they will agree with me in the opinion that the course most likely to bring about an amicable settle ment of the dispute is that which his Majesty's Government have adopted.—( Hear, hear.) We do not mean to disregard the petitions of the Canadian population, but we mean to ap peal to their sense of reason and justice ; and we firmly be lieve that our appeal will prove successful.—(Cheers.) We will give their claims every just consideration, but at the same time I am bound distinctly to state we do not mean to declare any new principle of government in the colonies.--( Hear.) Our object is to see of what it is the Canadian people com plain, and then to see to what extent those complaints are founded in justice. If we find they are not founded in justice, our aim shall be to prevent their continued and useless agita tion ; but if, on the contrary, we find they are founded on jus tice, we shall apply ourselves in a spirit of conciliation, and without regard to the epithets of contumely and insult pre viously heaped upon us, to their permanent and satisfactory re moval.--( Cheers.) Having stated thus dearly the course we have resolved upon pursuing in reference to this question, I beg to assure the House I shall not occupy their attention by any comment upon the numerous and unincidental topics intro duced by the Hon. Member for Bath into his speech. One word, however, a sense of justice compels me to say in de fence of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, whose conduct has been so unjustifiably attacked by the Hon. Member who originated this discussion. Sir, Ido not believe that the conduct of any Minister of this country or any public man, Minister or otherwise, was ever exposed to so severe an ordeal as that of the Noble Lord to whom I allude; and I may further say I doubt any man could go through such an ordeal with more honour or credit to his character than did the Noble Lord.--( Cheers.) , While a Minister of the Crown that Noble Lord went before a Committee of the House of Commons—a Committee indiscriminately chosen—having on its list many Members adverse to the policy of the Govern ment with which he was connected—a Committee as fair a representative of the average opinions of that House as could possibly be selected—a Committee as fully the re presentative of the interests of the Canadian body as of the British party in Canada—before such a Committee the Noble Lord went, and after producing to them every document public or private his office contained, left it to them to judge whether the complaints brought against him were founded in justice or otherwise.—( Cheers.) Sir, I repeat I know of no example of a Minister having taken such a course to free him self from accusation, and much less of a Minister, after taking such a course, passing through the ordeal so honourably to himself and his character as did the Noble Lord.--(Loud cheers.) As far, therefore, as the accusation of the Hon. Member for Bath is concerned, I think the Noble Lord will best consult his own dignity by treating it with indignant or rather contemptuous silence.—( Hear, hear.) I would here, Sir, cease to occupy the attention of the House were it not that there occurs to me one other point in the Honourable Member for Bath's speech which I do not think I ought to pass over without notice. The Hon. Member has been pleased to threaten us, that unless every thing the Canadians ask for is granted them, they have deter mined upon rebellion. Those, I think, were the expressions of the Hon. and Learned Member.—( A laugh.) He also undertook to assure us that thirteen millions inhabitants of the United States of America, a country with which Great Bri tain at this moment enjoys the profoundest amity, a country with which Great Britain is almost daily interchanging expres sions of most friendly feeling, a country with which Great Britain has scarcely a subject of difference—their old jea lousies being now removed, and each, conscious that the pros perity of the other must influence its own prosperity, recipro cally desiring that peace, tranquillity, and good order might flourish in the other—such, Sir, I say, being the state of the countries the Hon. Gentleman thinks it fit to declare, that if a rebellion should break out in Canada, the whole of the United Provinces are prepared to interfere in our domestic quarrels, and join these rebellious Canadians. Now, Si r , I will not do the United States the injustice to believe, even for a moment, that they, or any one on their behalf, could have authorized the Hon. and Learned Member to make such a de claration within the walls of the British House of Commons. —( Loud cheers and laughter.) I have too high an opinion of their justice and integrity; but even if that opinion were wanting, I entertain such a sense of their shrewdness, common sense, and discretion, that I cannot believe thy would select as their organ in this House the Hon. Member who has thought proper to represent himself in that capacity. With re spect to his declaration of the intentions of the Canadians, I have also a word to say. I think, Sir, it is far better for me instead of being exasperated by the language the Hon. and Learned Member has been pleased to put, as it were, into the mouths of the Canadian party, of whom he says he is the representative, and instead of demeaning myself by retorting equally hard words and unworthy expressions, simply and in the plainest language to state that I both hope and trust the Hon. Gentleman has had no authority from that party to tell the British House of Commons that unless all their demands are acceded to, they will have recourse to rebellion.—(Loud cheers.) Indeed, Sir, painful as the alternative would be, I would be rather inclined to believe that for the moment—l say, Sir, only for the moment—the wisdom and discretion for which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman is so remarkable, forsook him than to suppose that he gave - us a correct report of the intentions of his, as he has been pleased to term them, constituents.—(Laughter.) But if on the other hand it should turn out that his information is correct--if it be true that the Canadian people or any part of them have instructed the Hon. Member to act in the capacity of their Minister of War, and to declare to the British Parliament that they are prepared to rebel if all their demands are not acceded to—l, as Minister of the British Government, will meet them, not with any counter declaration of hostility, b u t, w ith the hand of peace and friendship grasping theirs, I will say to them, "Still,we intend to do you justice--still, notwithstanding we de rive from your menaces a fresh source of strength—although by your threats you arm us with fresh means of arousing public opinion on our side—and although by your unfounded accusa tions, accusations which in the end will recoil on yourselves and give us the strength to disregard your vaunting, you in duce a fresh conviction of your injustice and intemperance, we are determin©d to go on unflinchingly in the course we have set out on; and, by removing all fair grounds of complaint, take from you even the pretence for asserting that his Majesty's co lonial.subjects do not meet from the British Government that ..... _ consideration and attention to which they are entitled."—( The Right Hon. Baronet resumed his seat amid loud cheers.) Mr. HUME said that the Hon. Member for Worcester had treated the subject now before the House with his usual disre gard for facts.--( Oh, oh.) Probably the House and the Hon. Gentleman were not aware that the party lead by Papineau, and which had been designated a faction, consisted of 10-11ths of the inhabitants of Lower Canada. Was the Hon. Gentle- man aware that out of eighty-eight members of the last Par liament twenty-seven members only were of the Tory party — the struggle in Canada having been similar to one that had lately taken place in this country, and that four, and only four, refused to sign the petition referred to, though twelve were prevented from doing so in consequence of the state of the roads. Some Hon. Members were probably unacquainted with the state of population and of parties there, and he would beg to inform them that the supporters of the petition were 373,000 and the opposers only 32,000. But the real question before the House he considered to be, were the people of Canada satisfied ? Had they good government or not? They asked. in 1831 for a Constitution, and a charter of their rights. Instead of this they were still misruled ; still badly governed and the pensioners of the government were chosen for the ad ministration of the office of Judge. He would ask the House what they would think if out of four bills sent up to the House of Lords, three were, on the average refused, and these bills relating to finance and other matters of equal importance, what they would think of it ? Yet this was the case as re garded Canada. He spoke from no uncertain information, but from documents laid before the House. Theeonsequence was that instead of harmony between the colonists and the govern. ment there was discord. Out of one hundred and sixty nine' Bills sent up to the Council by the Legislative As sembly in the space of ten years, namely, from 1822 to 1832, no less than 122 were rejected. These Bills were for extend ing education, for preventing pensioners sitting in the Assembly, as in this country, and for various other purposes of improve ment. They were told, that the people of Canada could not rule themselves, but that they must be governed by a petty faction called the Council, who were to be supported by the Colonial Office _at home. TheY were placed In the same situation as the'people of England before the Reforin Bill. The Hon. Member for Cambridge and late Secretary of the Colonies hdd said, that he extremely regretted - that the grievances un der which the Canadians laboured were unaltered, and that the same vicious system of Goiernment was maintained. He need not insist, then, upon the assertion of their grievances being well founded, for the late Secretary had admitted them to be so, but had at the same time declared that he had not time to redress them. The funds arising from 370,000 Catho lic inhabitants of Canada for the purposes of education, were distributed among a very few. Could it be expected that the people of Canada, any more than the people of Ireland, could tamely submit to see those funds appropriated, without having a voice in their disposal ? The Hon. Gentleman then alluded to the funds arising from lands placed at the disposal of the Council being . applied for the purposes of the State, exclu sive of the interest of the people, and that those funds were neither subject to the control of the native Parliament, nor was the subject cognizable by the Crown. The- Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to the subject of the Bill for in corporatirig a Company for the sale of Canadian lands, which Mr. Papineau had asserted •to have been smuggled through the House. He (Mr. Hume) did not doubt that the Com pany had done, and would do, great good, by the introduc tion of capital, which would bring its' accompanying im provements. But what be complained of was, that the funds produced by the lands when sold, were neither under the control of the Government here nor the people there, but were employed to bribe the Members of the Legislature. The Hon. Member then read a resolution of the House of As sembly in Canada, dated April 15, 1834, expressive of the hopes they entertained of immediate redress from his Majesty's Government, more especially after the retirement from office of Mr. Stanley and the appointment of Mr. Spring Rice. He then proceeded to say that he hailed with pleasure the declara tion of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite of his intention to redress all grievances, but regretted that he should be averse to attempting any new principle, as he (Mr. Hume) felt fully convinced that unless some new principle was acknowledged it would be impossible to obtain peace in the colony. He re collected that an Hon. Gentleman opposite had said on a pre vious occasion that Canada had in its vicinity the United States, and that an ideal line only separated the two countries ; and that it could not be expected that the Canadians, seeing the advantages their neighbours derived from a different Con stitution, would long tolerate their own imperfect and inferior system. The Hon. Gentleman concluded, after expressing his opinion of the necessity for maintaining a good understand ing with the colonists and not treating them like a conquered people, and saying that their claims were deserving of the greatest possible attention as being the demands of the ma jority of the population, and not, as had been asserted, of a faction under Papineau, by informing the House that the Eng lish among the settlers were as one to ten, and that the emo luments of office were distributed among them as ten to one, and that no , rood could be done unless the Government ccn sented to reform the Legislative Assembly. Mr. A. BARING had been acquainted with many of the best informed men in the colonies for many years, and they were unanimous in the opinion that with all its defects the pre sent Constitution had been of the greatest possible benefit. He was told that only an ideal frontier separated the colonies from the United States. He had himself been there, and looked across that frontier, and from inquiries that he had made he did not think the contiguity so dangerous as gentle men on the opposite side were inclined to insinuate, for he found that from 10,000 to 20,000 settlers had gone from the one place to the other, and acted as loyal subjects to the King. When, too, he saw people go in large numbers to settle in Upper Canada—not in Lower Canada among the French—he felt inclined to attribute the dissent expressed to the constitu tion of Government, to the excitement maintained and the dif ferences fomented by the enemies of order at home. Add to this the disagreement between two nations, both of a national and religions nature, and the House need no longer entertain any surprise that neither the present Government nor its prede cessor had been able to tranquilize the colony. When Hon. Gen tlemen invoked the observance of the Constitution of Lower Canada, they should first show how it had been violated. Nine-tenths of the complaints against Government were of vio lating the Constitution. That Constitution might be bad, but it had not been violated. The distribution of lands which had been so much talked of was no violation of the Constitution, but was in accordance to law. Gentlemen were aware that in all the colonies of Great Britain the sound and substantial bless ings of freedom were enjoyed ; but whether in those countries or in this, if there were constant irritating attempts to provoke discord, materials for mischief were to be found anywhere, and it was easy for those so disposed to keep up the excitement for the purpose of making complaints. Constant discussion on these subjects tended to exasperate. He should wish that a watchful eye might overlook the proceedings of the colonists, but_that by the forbearance of the Government the angry state of parties might be conciliated and a state of peace pre served.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. ROBINSON explained, but the purport of his obser vOons did not reach the Gallery. Mr. L ABO UCHE RE hoped that it would not go forth to the colonists that the Government did not intend the intro duction of any new principle, as such an intention could only have the effect of perpetuating the present animosity. The petition now before the House for the alteration of the Con stitution was signed by the great majority of the people of Lower Canada. The Hon. Member concluded by expressing a wish to be satisfied upon two points—first, whether the com plaints of the people of the Canadas would be referred to the Legislature or the Governor; and, secondly, whether the person to be deputed from this country was to be created Governor of the colony. Mr. Secretary GO eLBURN replied that the individual to be deputed from the Government of this country was to be only a Commissioner, and he said that not having been in the House when the Right Hon. Baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer explained his intentions he could not satisfy the Hon. Member on the other point. Mr. SHELL said that the Right Hon. Member for Cain bridge had stated certain facts corroborative of the circum stances of a similar character adduced by the Hon. Member for Bath. It appeared, then, Oil the showing of all concerned, that a serious and improper difference had arisen between the Executive and the Legislature in the Canadas—between the House of Assembly and the Governor-General. It had been stated that Lord Aylmer had advanced 7,0001. out of his own pocket to carry on the affairs of the Government ; but by the Report of the Committee, it appeared, on th e ev id ence o f a Mr. M‘Kinnon, that he had advanced no such sum, 500/. being the maximum of what he was out of pocket on that occasion. Therefore, that allegation in his favour fell to the ground. He (Mr. Sheil) did not desire, by any thing he might say or do, to create ill-feeling between the colony and the mother coun try, or widen the breach which, he regretted to say, existed ; L , but he could not help saying, that he believed the people of 'the Canadas must have been much aggrieved, as not a single Statement made by the Hon. Member for Bath had been con tradicted. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that he would do justice to the complaints of the colonists ; and he (Mr. Sheil) was disposed to give him cr e dit f or th e i ntent i on . B ut still he thought the Rigt Hon. Gentleman might have been more explicit in his statements, and told the House how far he intended to go in the subject of redress. His Honourable Friend the Member for Bath had said that an appeal to arms might be made by the Canadians, if their wrongs were suffered to remain unrighted—(hear)—and he was attacked by the Right Hon. Baronet in no measured terms for saying it. But a prophecy was one thing, and the faculty of accomplishing it was another ; and though his Hon. Friend might have honestly predicted such a result, he was sure he would be the last to sanction it. Another fertile source of heart-burning in Canada was afforded by religious causes. The colony was Catholic ; Catholicity was the recognised religion of the country by the treaties under which it had been surrendered ; yet the local Government had seized upon the estates of that Church, and applied them, not to the support of that Church, but to the maintenance of the Established Church of this kingdom. Mr. S, RICE was understood to deny the accuracy of the Hon. and Learned Member's statement. Mr. SHELL then proceeded to read from the report of the Committee a copy of a despatch, dated Colonial Office, 1830, and addressed to the Lord Bishop of Quebec, in support of his statement. Sir R. PEEL objected to the course which the Hon. and Learned Member was pursuing, as unparliamentary and un precedented. The Hon. Member treated the House to quo tations from a report of the Committee of the House which had never been laid on the table, and which was consequently without their cognizance.--( Hear.) Mr. SHE IL defended himself from the charge insinuated against him. He had found the report on the table of the House, and had only made the same use of it as his Hon. Friend the Member for Bath had done, without incurring the reprehension of the Right Hon. Baronet. The SPEAKER decided against the course adopted by the Hon. and Learned Member. Mr. S HEIL said that the Right Hon. Baronet relied on the report of the Committee, yet he would not permit the evidence on which it was founded to be used.--( Hear, hear.) But he (Mr. Sheil) would ask, did that report exculpate the Governor of the Canadas or contradict the statements made by the Hon. Member for Bath ? He would maintain it did not. Sir R. PE EL thought the Canadian House of Assembly was a fitter place to entertain complaints of the nature of those contained in the petitions in the first instance than the British House of Commons, to which an ultimate appeal only ought to be addressed.—( Hear.) Mr. M. STEWART was connected with the British Ca nadian interest, and was therefore competent to entertain the subject of the petition. He did not think that the grievances were so great as that document stated, and he believed that some of them did not exist. From his knowledge of these colonies he felt he was safe in saying that all the petitions from thence would not be on one side ; and he was satisfied that in the course of a few days the House might reckon upon several counter petitions from them. Mr. S. RICE made some explanation respecting certain despatches alluded to in the course of the debate, but in such a low tone as to be inaudible for the purposes of reporting. Sir R. PEEL expressed himself perfectly satisfied with the explanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. ROEBUCK replied at some length. He had stated what he believed to be the actual condition of the Canadian people, and he had no object whatever in view but the truth. In 1774 Mr. Burke made a speech somewhat similar in pur port, respecting the colonies of England at that period in a state of civil commotion, yet he was scouted at, and all:kinds of vituperation showered on him both within and without the colonies separated from the mother country in consequence of the protracted neglect of their just complaints. In precisely the same position as Mr. Burke was then, he (Mr. R.) was now ; and he conscientiously believed the Canadas now to be in the identical potition in which the United States of America were then. It was idle to taunt him with exciting the people of the Canadas to rebellion. If they had no cause all the words he could say would fall on their ears unheeded—if they had cause, as he was convinced they had, his words might have the effect of a warning to the Government. He hoped the warning would be attended to ; and the evil which menaced the country in that country be averted. The Go vernment might affect to think lightly of his statements, but he could assure them that they might be depended on. He had his information from quarters in that country which had more power there than the Government itself, and matters were communicated to him which never reached the ear of Colonial Office. He trusted that his predictions would be falsified ; but he could not help perceiving that they were very near being accomplished. Sir R. PEEL congratulated the Hon. Member on the al tered tone of his second address, which he said was conceived and addressed in a far wiser, better, and more temperate spirit than the first. In reply to a question put by Mr. Hume, Sir R. PEEL said that every possible degree of caution had been used in the selection of the individual who was to be sent to Canada as the Representative of the British Government ; and every necessary power had been conferred on him to set tle the questions at issue between the local Executive and the Legislature. He had also to state that a notification of the appointment, and an intimation of the probable time of his arrival, had been sent to the Canadas upwards of six weeks since. Mr. LABOUCHERE hoped that the hands of the Com missioner would not be tied up to one particular object; but that he would be permitted and empowered to investigate, not alone the present complaints, but the causes which led to them ; and if these causes arose from any defect in the legislative con stitution of the colonies that he should be at liberty to intro duce changes and make such alterations as would give general satisfaction to the people. Sir R. PEEL thought the best way would be to preserve silence on the subject until he was permitted to enter into an explanation of his Majesty's views. The petition was then ordered to lie on the table. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. Mr. SHIEL wished to know of the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department whether the Government had ap plied to the Commissioners of Public Instruction in Ireland for i report of their proceedings, and whether they had ob tained from them any report as yet ? Mr. Secretary GO ULBURN said that an application had been made to the Commissioners, but that no report had been made by them as yet. They had, however, in their answer to the Government held out a prospect of an early report. WAYS AND MEANS. On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, the House then resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. Bernal in the Chair. The following sums were then voted by the Committee :- 15,000,000/. in Exchequer Bills, in lieu of those charged on the supply of 1831. 2,066,600/., part of the sum now in his Majesty's Exchequer, to complete the Transfer of Aids for 1833 and 1834. 60,000/. Compensation, Pensions, and Allowances to Offi cers retired and on half-pay in the service of the Hon. East India Company. And an indefinite sum for the re-payment of Exchequer Bills advanced for public works and West India relief. The House then resumed. SUPPLIES. Mr. HUME wished to state, in regard to the notice which he had given the other night of an intended motion upon the subject of the Supplies, that he now found it was considered preferable that they should be granted for a period of three months instead of six; he should, accordingly, present his motion in that more acceptable shape.—( Hear, hear, and laughter from the Ministerial benches.) Sir R. PEEL—The motion will be made, then, on the Navy Estimates. Mr. HUME—Yes,—on the first vote. The Chester Criminals Execution Bill was then read a third time and passed. HAND-LOOM WEAVERS. Mr. J. MAXWELL rose and said that in moving for the re-appointment of the Committee of Inquiry into the distresses of the hand-loom weavers he would first lay before the House a petition to that effect which had been signed by 12,000 of that body of operatives employed in Perth. As he believed there would not be any opposition offered to his present motion he would not trouble the House at any length, and he now merely moved " That the report upon the subject made by the Committee of last session be read at the table of the House." The report was read by the clerk at the table. Mr. MAXWELL then moved that a Committee be ap pointed to inquire into the condition of the hand-loom weavers, and to report upon the same to the House. Mr. Maxwell said that he had scarcely any necessity to mention that the dis tresses of this large and useful class of persons had been esta blished by an inquiry last year, and that it must still be in the recollection of the public that it was extensive and very great. He should not further trouble the House, as it was not the in tention of his Majesty's Ministers to offer any opposition to his motion. Mr. A. BARING thought that the Hon. Member could not for a moment suppose that there was any disposition in any part of the House to deny the most ample attention to so important a subject. He had stated to the Hon. Member what he had stated to the House, that if the case of distress had come to him as one single question he should have decided it as the Right Hon. Gentleman who had preceded him in his office had decided it, and be should have said that it was not a right subject to go before a new Committee. The last Committee that had conducted the investigation had contained the names of many Gentlemen of very considerable reputa tion, but when he reflected upon the fact that the inquiry con cerned the condition of not less than 80,000 persons employed in this species of manufacture, he could not but concur in re commending to the House that it should again hear the case.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) There might by possibility be some means devised for relief, and the parties might think themselves aggrieved if an inquiry were denied into their case. He was aware, however, that upon the other hand much would be said against the impropriety of exciting expectations that the House could be able to do for the sufferers what in reality they could not do. For his part he did not think that any thing beneficial could result from the present inquiry. He should not now oppose the appointment of the Committee. Mr. T. ATTWOOD—The Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had said that it was not possible to improve the condition of the 80,000 persons who had petitioned the House. Mr. BARING said nothing of the sort. All he had said was, that he did not think that any relief could be afforded by any of the means that had been suggested to the Committee, or by any Legislative interference. Mr. A TTW OOD continued. He begged the Right Hon. Gentleman's pardon. The Right Hon. Gentleman then had said that the measures recommended to the Committee were not proper to give relief. He agreed in this particular with the Right lion. Gentleman, that the measures proposed were not calculated to afford relief; but he denied that it thence followed that Parliament could adopt no measures whatever calculated to attain the object in view. All he could say was, that if 80,000 persons were in great distress, and Parliament could afford them no relief, he did not know what the House sat there for. He would maintain that the wrongs of these people could be redressed, not by the measures which had been recommended, but by the peculiar means which he had brought forward.—( Laughter. ) Mr. HUME wished to ask his Hon. Friend who made the motion, whether it was his intention to go into further evi dence? Mr. H UTT was opposed to the proposition before the House, because he was convinced that it would afford no help to the suffering classes. Lord F. EG ERTON rose to return his thanks to his Right Hon. Friend, the President of the Board of Trade, for ac ceding to the motion before the House. Anxious as he was to meet the question of the distresses of the very extensive classes which were suffering the privations that had been proved; anxious as he was to convince them that Parliament had given the fullest attention to the subject ; at the same time he was bound to confess that he could not entertain a hope that the plans that had been advocated could be found capable of producing that substantial and practical relief which all men must join in wishing that Parliament could afford. The extent of the distress, and the exemplary patience with which it had been borne in the county which he had the ho nour to represent, he could bear testimony to, but he was bound to say, that the distress arose from causes which it would be very difficult for Parliamentary legislation practically to remove. An Hex. MEMBER said that the great object of the present motion would be to procure the evidence of the master manu facturers, with which the petitioners would be satisfied. An HoN. MEMBER from the Ministerial benches expressed his conviction that no relief could arise from the appointment of a Committee. Mr. MAXWELL contended that the people had a right to have the experiment tried. The motion was then put and carried, and the following Committee appointed : Maxwell, J. Brothertoz?, J Speirs, Captain Cayley, E. S. Ainsworth, Peter Fitzsimon, C. Beckett, Sir J., Bart. Scott, I.ord John Harland, W. Oliphant, L. Hardy, J. Wetayss, Capt. Aglionhy, H. A. Gordon, Hon. W. Parnell, Sir H. Robinson, G. R. Stanley, Lord Young G. F. Blamire, W. Baines, E. Wallace, It Philips, M. Stuart, Lord D. C. Turner, %V. Maule, Hon. Fox Buckingham, J. S. Fergus, John Forbes, W. Attwood, M. Stuart, Lord James Brocklehurst, J. Euston, Earl of Bannerman, A. Stormont, Viscount Ruthven, E. S. Walker, R. Wilbraham, G. Palmer, C. Thomson, C. P. Baring, A. Bowling, Dr. O'Connell, D. Thornley, Thomas ice to bring in a Bill portion of the pro loyed in the Bank of Leman then obtained relating to securities Ither illegal transac- Graham, Sir J. R. G. Fielden, J. Ashley, Lord Boiling, W. Morpeth, Viscount Fleetwood, H. Oswald, R. A. Gillon, W. D. Wilmot, Sir Eardley Attwood, T. Williams, W. Wakley, Thomas Plumpiie,J : y. • Stanley, H. T. Hallybutton, D. G. , 'Ferment, Emerson Mullins, F. W. Bulwer, H. L... Egerton, Lord Fran. Mr. ROLFE moved and obtained le for investing in Government Securities perty of bankrupts' estates lying unemp England. The Hon. and Learned Gent] leave to bring in a Bill to amend the laws given for gaming, usurious, and certain c tions. NEWSPAPERS. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to indemnify persons who have omitted to coin ply with certain of the regulations contained in an Act of 38 Gee. 111., c. 78, respecting the printing and publication of newspapers, from penalties incurred under that Act. He was quite aware that no Bill of Indemnity ought lightly to be passed ; but he thought that the circumstances of the present case—no injury having been occasioned by the violation of the law—the conduct of the informer being vexatious in the ex treme, and the actions having been evidently brought for the purpose of extorting money_ there would be sufficient ground for deviating from the general rule. At this moment there were three hundred actions pending on this subject, and those were brought to recover a penalty of 1001. in each ; the penal. ties on the daily newspapers in the course of the year, for wh: 3 .). the informers were entitled to sue, amounted to 30,000/., rri the penalties on the weekly newspapers, though of course less, had in some instances been claimed to the sum of 10,000/. All these actions were brought in the name of one person —.a writing clerk, of the name of Smith, in the service of an attor ney; but they were really brought by another individual, who had been lately sentenced to imprisonment by the Court of King's Bench for a libel. It would be necessary for him to state the enactments, the operation of which in the present case he proposed to remedy ; for it was his intention to introduce a provision into his Bill, to prevent the recurrence of similar measures. The Act in question was the 38th of George 111. chap. 78; it was passed in the year 1798, for the purpose of enabling proceedings to be better taken against newspapers in cases of libel. That Act required that no per son should publish a newspaper until an affidavit had been made, stating the names, additions, descriptions, and places of abode of all the persons who intended to be printers, publishers, or proprietors of it. This affidavit was directed to be filed at the Stamp-office, and any person who published a newspaper without having previously complied with the provisions of the Act, became subject to a penalty of 100/. There was also another provision of the same Act, compelling, on pain of a penalty of 100/., that the name and abode of the publisher and printer, the descripti on o f th e pl ace w h ere th e newspaper was printed, and its title, should be affixed to each paper. The House would observe that there were two distinct offences contemplated by the Act—one for neglecting to make affidavit of the place of publication, the abode of the printer and pub lisher ; and the other for omitting to notify correctly, at the end of the paper, the particulars of which affidavit had in the first instance been made. The informer who had brought the ac tions which were the subject of this motion, had grounded the prosecutions on a non-compliance with that part of the Act which had reference to the abode of the printer ; and because he had discovered that it was a common practice throughout the country to have such a statement as the following placed at the foot of newspapers--namely, " Printed by A. 8., at St. James's-street, in a certain city," lie brought his actions, and in many cases obtained damages, because the residence of the publisher was not distinctly set forth on the face of the publication. It would be seen, then, that these actions were brought for a very immaterial omission on the part of the pub lisher—namely, that of not mentioning his own place of resi dence, but merely stating that the place where the paper was printed was his abode. The most vexatious and harassing prose cutions were instituted by the individual to whom he haealluded -for this and similar trivial neglect, to one of which he hoped he might be permitted to draw the attention of the House. A person residing in Cornwall, who was the proprietor of a newspaper, had died a short time ago, and his widow having come into the possession of the property made an affidavit, as required by the Act, but failed to add that she was a widow ; and for this omission there was an ac tion pending for no less a sum than 10,500 i. He thought this case alone would justify the House in the interference which he intended to recommend.—(Hear, hear.) The whole course of the proceedings, however, adopted by the individual to whom he had referred, were alike marked by effrontery and vexation. He had sent letters to several editors and proprie tors of newspapers, which purported to contain the opinions upon this question of several eminent counsel, and amongst the rest of the Lord Chi e f B aron o f t h e E xc h equer; and lie tendered his advice, grounded upon these opinions, to those persons that they should compromise the actions which were pending in the best way they could devise. Though in some instances he failed to attain his object, yet he (the Solicitor- General) believed that in many cases he did prevail in pro curing a compromise, whilst action s were pending, which, if they were suffered to come to trial, would in all probability be decided against the publisher or editor. This person had also sent circulars to the clergymen residing in several towns, and other persons who, he thought, would be likely to afford him the information which he desired, requiring they should let him know the particulars respecting the printers and publishers of newspapers—how long they had resided in the town—where the papers were publised—whether the printers carried on any trade or business—and where their wives and families resided. But the most singular part of this document was the request which it contained that the party to whom it was addressed would turn his attention as soon as possible to the return which was sought for, as the object in applying for it was sta ted to be, that it was necessary to have it laid before Parlia ment.—( A laugh.) He further expresses a wish that the an swer should be sent directed to him, under cover to some mem ber of Parliament, and he (the Solicitor-General) was not a little surprised upon looking to one of those circulars which he then held in his hand, that in one case this individual desired that the answer should be sent under cover to the " Solicitor- General."—( A laugh'..) Such had been the course which this individual had for some time pursued ; and believing that the House would concur with him in the propriety of putting a stop to these proceedirgs, the next point for their considera tion was, how that object might be most effectually accom plished. The lion. Member for Surrey appeared to think that it was only necessary to bring in a Bill to indemnify those parties against whom actions had been brought, as well as those against whom actions were pending, at the instance of this informer; and it would be in the recollection of the House that for a simple Bill of Indemnity a precedent was of fered by a Bill which was passed in the year 1809, for compen sation to individuals who had been prosecuted by a person named Wright. He (the Solicitor-General) was, however, of opinion, that if the right of sueing were left to the common informer, half the evil would be suffered to remain.—( Hear, hear.) He meant, therefore, to obviate this objection, by in serting a clause in the Bill which he intended to introduce, stating that those actions which were now pending at the suit 'of the common informer, should be qu as h e d, and that no actions should, for the future, be instituted in such cases, unless with the advice, and on the responsibility of th e Law Officers of the Crown. Though he could not be supposed to entertain any very friendly feelings towards the individual who had instituted so many vexatious actions, yet he felt compelled to do him the justice to have it enacted in the Bill which he meant to submit, that he should be paid those expenses which he incurred upon the faith of the existing law. He, therefore, proposed that the defendant should be at liberty to stay the proceedings upon the payment of those costs which were up to this time incurred.— ( Hear, hear.) This, as he had before said, would be but doing an act of common justice to the prosecutor, and would not fall with any very serious weight upon the defendant. If the House agreed with him as to the principle of the Bill, the scope and provisions of which he had endeavoured to lay before them, lie hoped they would pass it with as little delay as pos sible, in consequence of the peculiar situation in which those parties were placed for whose benefit he had submitted it to their consideration.--( Hear, hear.) Sir J. CAMPBELL expressed his entire concurrence in the principles and details of the measure which the Hon. and Learned gentleman had submitted to the House. With respect to its provisions, he would only remark, that though that p ar t of the Act to whichl the Hon. and Learned gentleman re ferred, as requiring the residence of the proprietor and pub lisher to be distinctly stated, was sometimes wilfully violated by proprietors of newspapers, yet as it regarded the printer, it was extremely unfair that the proprietors of newspapers should be liable to action because the abode of the printer--where he slept, and where his wife and family resided—bad been omitted—( Hear, hear.) He thought that an end could not be too speedily put to those petty-fogging and vexatious actions to some of which the lion. and Learned Gentleman had alluded—(Hear.) Mr. C URTE IS said that it had been mentioned in the course of that discussion, that the name of the individual who instituted those proceedings was Smith ; but as he was anxious that all the odium of them should fall upon the proper party, he felt it right to mention that Smith had been employed by a person named Adolphus Warren. With respect to that part of the Bill which went to indemnify the informer for the costs which he had incurred in actions pending, he (Mr. Curteis) doubted whether it did not require that he should receive no benefit from the unjust practices to which he had resorted. Mr. BAINE S, in expressing his sincere thanks to the lion. Gentleman for the beneficial measure which he bad then introduced, said be hoped lie might be allowed to suggest, as a means of simplifying the Bill, that it should be enacted that the place where the paper was published should be considered the residence of the publisher. The ATTO RN E Y-GENERA L, who expressed his wil lingness to share in the responsibility of the measure which had been introduced by his Learned Friend, felt b o u n d t o re- jcct any recommendation such as that offered by the Hon. Member for Leeds, which, if adopted, would only hamper the proposed Bill, and prevent that object for which it had been in troduced from being attained, which was to relieve printers from their present difficulties, and prevent their being placed in a similar situation for the future.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. BONHAM CARTER was desirous that the proposed Bill should pass as soon as possible, being convinced that it would materially benefit the parties whom it immediately af fected, and give general satisfaction to the country. Mr. CARRUTHERS said, that in Hull an action had been brought for one of the trivial omissions which had been noticed by the Learned Gentleman who brought forward this Bill ; and he thought that the sooner such actions were abolished the better. Mr. WIGNE Y said that in the town which he had the honour to represent, five or six of those prosecutions had been instituted, and he bad no doubt that the Bill of the Learned Gentleman would be hailed there with gratification by all classes. Captain PEC HELL quite agreed with his Hon. Colleague in the view which he had taken of this measure. Indeed, he would not hesitate to assert that the announcement of this Bill would be received by his constituents with as great joy as if they were told that the malt-tax or window-tax would be repealed.—( Laughter. ) After a few words from the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, the Bill was brought up and read a first time. IRRUPTION OF THE CAFFRES INTO THE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. Mr. BAG SII AW in moving for a copy of any despatches which may have been received upon this subject from the Cape of Good Hope, said, it appeared that in the month of December last, the Caffrcs, whose force he had heard exceeded 10,000 men, had made an itruption.into the east. ern part of that colony, which was attended with the most disastrous effects. (Hear, hear, hear.) In bringing this subject under the attention of the House, he begged to disclaim any intention of wishing to attach blame to the present Government, or to that which they had succeeded ; for . -, A.:: , ,,,::,: . .....:.„.,-, :-‘'-: , ' . A .4/ /