The Sun. — London, England, 1835-07-14 00:00:00

eessary to distribute those presents, and to superintend what . Vas called the Indian department. After a few words from Sir G. GREY and Mr. RomeSON, which were not audible, the vote was ag - reei to. On the question that 34 51 11. be granted to defray the ex pense of canal communications in Canada, Mr. ROEBUCK objected to the vote he dial rot see bow so large a seem could be required. Mr. FR ANCIS BARING said that 2e,9901. out of the whole sum was required on eeecunt of c ompensations to indi viduals fur leases sustained and laada taken in the formation of canals. Mr. fi UM E had oppoeed the Paideae Canal (towards the support of which, he supposed this money was to be voted) from first to last. He objected to the grant of the present sum. if the canal were likely to be usetui to the country, of course it woubi be worth the while of the Canadian Government to take it cif our hands. If it were not likely to be naotul, Eng land ought f.ot to be called upon to contribute furtter sums for its maintenance. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted trot the whole cost of the construction cf the canal had more than tripled what it was originally estimated at. Still it must be obvious to every one Zieet it was calculated to confer great benefits as well upon this c:Amti'y as upon Canada. Of late, too, the tolls upon it had very coneitea:ably increased, and there was every prospect of its ultimately Yietti:.g a handsome • revenue. After some further discussion, in which Mr. Roebuck, Dr. Bowring, Mr. French, Mr. A. Chapman, and Mr. Labou chere took part, the vote was agreed to. On the question that 16,1671. be granted to defray the arges of the salaries of Governors, Lieutenant-Governors, and others in his Majesty's West India Colonies, Mr. HUME observed that in his opinion every Governor or Lieutenant -Governor ought to be paid by the colony over which ho presided.—Vote agreed to. On the question that 963/ Os. 33. be granted to defray the expense of the civil Government of Heligoland, Mr. HUME begged to inquire what a civil Govnrnment was required for ? Formerly, all the establishment deemed necessary to manage affairs at Heligoland was a captain and a Lieutenant; but now we had a Lieutenant-Governor with 500/. a year, a Lieutenant-Governor's clerk with 136/. a year, two clergymen with 50/. each, a town-clerk with 60/., a signal man 601. 103., a buoy keeper 331. 6s. Bd., a mail carrier 691. 6s. Bd., and a block-house keeper 31. He wanted to know what employment there could be for all these various officers ? Above all, what need could there be for two parsons ? Sir G. GREY offered a few observations, but they were not audible. The vote was then;.greed to. On the resolutiodbeing proposed that the sum of 60,7501. should be granted to defray the charge of salaries and allow ances to the special justices appointed in pursuance of the Act for the Abolition of Slavery in the British Colonies, Mr. HUME asked whether the additional allowance of 150/. per annum on account of house rent and horse hire, which had been. made by the Government to the special jus tices in British Guiana, and of which he (Mr. Hume) did not complain, because he thought the Government was perfectly warranted in making it, was to extend to the special justices in all the West India Islands? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under stood to say that the Governors were authorised, in all cases where they should deem it necessary to do so, to make the additional allowance in all the islands. The vote was then agreed to. The sum of 1,6661. was then voted for defraying the sala ries of eight agents for emigration, stationed at eight of the ports of the United Kingdom, for the year ending March 31, 1836. On the sum of 9,6001. being proposed to be granted is aid of the expenses of the'Civil Establishment of Newfoundland, for the year ending 31st March, 1836, EWA R I' put a question to the Chancellor of the Ex chequer respecting the appointment of Captain Prescott to the Governorship of that colony : and was understood to ex press his apprehension that it was owing to certain aristocratic influence enjoyed by that gentleman. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured his Hon. Friend that the appointment of Captain Prescott was not owing to any aristocratic connection whatever. The Go vernment at home had requested the Government of New foundland to furnish the names of three of the most meritorious officers in the colony, whom they thought competent to fill the appointment of Governor. This was done, and Captain Pres cott was selected out of those three, in consequence of his own well-known merits alone. The vote was then agreed to. NOVA SCOTIA. The sum of 6,6851.C15; 6d.;;;tiretr - Proposed to be granted in aid of the expences of the Civil Government of the colony of Nova Scotia. Mr. E WART complained of this and of the preceding vote. He had hoped that they would not have been again brought forward. It appeared to be giving countenance to the lavish expenditure of the Tories ; he was, however, disposed to ascribe the appearance of thevotes on this occasion to the circumstance of the short interval occurring between the accession to office of the present Government and the bringing forward of the Estimates. Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE observed, that the demand for these votes would have been made, whether a Tory or a 'Whig Government had existed. No votes had ever under gone more consideration than this and the preceding vote for Newfoundland. lie was extremely sorry that it had been felt necessary to produce these votes again : no man resisted more s trongly than he did the re-appearance of them. It was anti cipated. that both the votes would - be hereafter done away with, sand that Nova Scotia and Newfoundland would be able to maintain their own establishments, with the exception of those of the Governors. After some further conversation, which was wholly inaudible in the Reporters' gallery, the vote was agreed to. COMMISSIONERS OF EDUCATION. —IRELAND. Mr. 7. BARING then moved that the sam of 35,000/. be granted for the Advancement of Education in Ireland, for the year ending 31st March, 1836. Mr. PLUMPTRE objected to the. vote, and proceeded to adeeess the Committee for some time, but in a tone perfectly inaudible to the reporters ; but it will be seen from the sub sequent a eetion of the debate, that the Hon. Gentleman was spea ki ng ne eerms of censure of the proceedings of the Com missioners of Eeneetion in Ireland. Lord MORPETI4.- 1 hope the Hon. Gentleman will not think it discourteous on Iny part if I defer the defence of the Irish Board of Education uetil he has brought forward his proofs of the charges he has preferred against them.—( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL—Did I understand the Hon. Gentle ma,e to say that Protestant children were compelled to attend Roman Catholic schools? Mr. PLUMI'TRE again addressed the Committee, but still in a eery indistinct tone of voice. We understood hiui to say that he had seen a paper in which questions and an swers were given respecting the manner in which the schools under the control of the Board of Education were conducted ; and that from these it appeared that the Roman Catholic children, who were punctual in their atteudance at the school, so as to hear mass (as we underetocd), were rewarded with a Roman Catholic prayer-book; and that the reward given to Protestant children for their punctual aiaendanoe to hear mass (us we also undorstood) was a suit of clothes. He had seen this statement, and he believed it to be correct ; and therefore he was op used to this grant. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the principle on which the Irish Beard of Education acted, was to give to children of all persuasions an equal advantage in the schools that had betas eetablishcd, reserving to every one not only freedom of conscience, but the fullest opportunity of obtaining religious instruction accordir"s to his own erred. lie thought this was a principle that would be approved of by the British public. But he would take the liberty of suggesting to the lion. Gentleman, that if he condemned this system on account of some vague and unsubstantiated statement which he might 'lappets to have seen in some paper, without affording Oise who upheld the system the means of contradiction, then that there could be no syetere—whetlicr Catholic or Protes tant—whether of the Orange or the Green party--that could stand the test of attacks of that kind. Those who adopted and administered the system now pursued had no disingenuous ob ject whatsoever. It never was intended by these votes to esta blish an exclusive system of instruction: On the contrary, it was always avowed that the schools were to be common to all— both Catholic and Protestant. If the Hon. Gentlenian, in stead of mis-stating the actions of the Commissioners from unauthenticated documents, most _likely coming Irons persons not very impartial in their decisionc, would furnish the Government or the House with time, place, circumstance, and proof, an inquiry should be immediately instituted, and if any abuse should be found to exist it -should be con rected.—(Cheers.) But if, instead of abuse,' these attacks against an establishment which ought to be considered placed on neutral ground, but which had, unhappily, been made the arena of the most bitter party contest that was ever known—if, he woitel repeat, these attacks should, as in all probability they would, be proved to be gross calumnies, then the detec tion of their falsehood could not, be was sure, fail to be most gratifying to the Hon. Gentleman himself, as it unquestionably would be to him. As a proof that these schools were based on a system calculated to give instruction free from all secta rian prejudices and distinctions, they had the satisfaction to know that the system hid been approved of, and was about to have been carried on by the late Government, to whom the present Government were opposed. The Right Hon. Gen tleman at the head of the late Government had never made any attacks upon that system ; but it was, nevertheless, a very remarkable circumstanceelhat the mass of individuals most in timately connected with that Right Hon. Gentleman, and particularly those residing in Ireland, were the very persons who made themselves most active in their hostility to it. Sir ROBERT INGLIS was not aware that the question was to be brought forward on the present occasion. He had, howeeer, objected to the principle before, and he saw no rea son why he should not repeat the objection now. Colonel SIBTHORP had no idea whatever—( Cheers) — that any thing was coming on. ;le looked with the greatest suspicion to every thing that was done oalhe opposite side of the House. Dr. BOWRING, although not an Irish Member, se::: with great pleasure the sum of 35,0001. devoted to advancing edu cation in Ireland on liberal and Christian principles. Mr. RUTHV EN supported the grant. Mr. O'CONNELL had the honour of knowing one of the Protestant Commissioners—a gentleman at the Bar, Mr. Holmes—well, and be was quite sure that if anything wrong were brought before him, he would resign his situation rather than tolerate it in the slightest degree. The lion. Gentleman had made two statements which were doubtlessly perfectly true ; the one was that he had seen a certain paper ) the other that he believed it to be true. Further than this, however, he did not go. He had not enlightened the House by telling them what the nature of the paper was, from whom he got it, or who the producers of it were; or whether it was part of Dens's Theology--( Hear, and a laugh.) He really wondered how'the Hon. Gentleman could be so imposed upon. He had read a paper which was ill question and answer. Who were the questioners, and who the answerers? If this were an in vestigation which had Leen directed by the Board, the Hon. Gentleman's statement would be a direct accusation against them. If se, let him bring the accusation forward, instead of leaking these vague and unfounded charges against a system which had been predeetise of the greatest good in Ireland. Mr. PLUNK Err deprecated the Government plan of education in Irelaad. The school at Drogheda was placed entirely iu the hands of two Franciscan Friars, who had made provisions for the- establishment of a Franciscan Monastery in that town, and for the diffusion of Popery. If his Majesty's Government were as sincere on this point as they professed to be, they would feel that it was at least desirable that . Pro testant chihlren shouid not be compelled to receive the edu. cation likely to be afihrded them by Franciscan Friars. They would feel in common with himself, and he hoped he might add a large portion of that House, that it was a matter lit considerable importance that their grandchildren—even they were so fortunate as to have as numerous a progeny as the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin—should be brought up in the christian education of their forefathers. The school at Ennis was also in the possession of two monks. He stated the fact on the authority of the • Deputy-Lieutenant of the county, who was himself a Magistrate. The opinion of the great majority of the magistracy and gentry of the country we? decidedly opposed to the Government plan of education ; and he never was more convinced of anything in his life than he was of the fact, that it would not be for a much longer period endured•in Ireland.—( Partial cheering.) Mr. O'CONNELL rose immediately amidst much cheer ing, and said, I beg to repudiate, as strongly as anybody can with courtesy, the attack made by the Hon.• Gentleman on those whom he is pleased to designate Franciscan Friars. I want to know whether a man has not as good a right to be a Franciscan Friar in Ireland, as the Hon. Gentleman has to belong to an Orange lodge ?—( Loud cheers.) I think he has a great more, and I will tell the Hon. Geutleman why—bee cause the one is an illegal society, while the other is a portion of the Church, which, although the Hon. Gentleman himself may not belong to it, has its regularly-ordain6d Ministers, and is tolerated by law. —( Renewed cheering.) Why, Sir, I knew even a Franciscan friar to whom it would be difficult for the Hon. Gentleman to compare himself. The late Father O'Leary was a Franciscan friar. It would be difficult for any man to say, I think, that the Hon. Gentleman is as well edu cated as Father O'Leary was. Ie my humble opinion, he cer tainly is not ; he seems to be marvellously defective In one branch of his education at least--Christian liberality:—(Tre mendons cheering, and a cry of "Oh !") Sir, it does not be come the lion. Gentleman to talk in that way. The Franciscan friars (as he is pleased to call them) have as good a right to be in the town of Drogheda as himself and are perhaps as well received there even as he would be if lie thought proper to en ter that town.—(Cheers and laughter.) Under the regula tions of the Board of Education, printed and widely circulated, they have a perfect right to keep that school • if the Hon. Gentleman can show that they violate the regulations of that Board—then indeed he makes out a case either against the friars or against the Board, or against both ; but until he does that, I tell him they acknowledge not the least superiority in him ; on the contrary, I think they would assert something like superiority over him in any literary contest in which he might embark with them.—( Loud cheers.) He talks of the monks of Ennis, too, somewhat tauntingly; it becomes him, to be sure : he is entitled to talk in that kind of way Really, he would recommend the Hon. Gentleman to take such trash to Exeter Hall : it would do admirably there— particulerly, if he had the police at his back.—(Loud cheers.) But he talks of the monks at Ennis. Now, they are not monks • they are persons who give themselves up at an early period of life to,be taught themselves, until they ac quire sufficient knowledge to educate the children of the poor ; they educate them gratuitously : they receive no salary or pe cuniary reward ; their lives are devoted to this benevolent purpose, and to this purpose alone. They exist in Ireland at present, I believe, to the number of three or four hundred, doing an extreme deal of good throughout the country by pro moting education. Many of them are within the rules of the Regulation Board, and receive assistance ; others refuse it, and have no assistance whatever. With the class that receive no assistance the House has not to do ; with those who do re ceive assistance it has to do ; and they would not fail to cen sure the Board if it gave money to a class of persons who did not comply with its regulations.—( Hear.) The Hon. Gen tleman's assault has originated in that silly and foolish affecta tion of superiority Which is to be found among one party in Ireland, which bewilders the imagination of those individuals, and leads them to believe that they are higher in station or moral character, and in the rank of human beings, that those whom they taunt as monks. I tell the Hon. Gentleman there never was a greater mistake committed by man—and I hope the lesson he has received this evening will teach him when he addresses the House again on a delieate subject of this de scription, to keep the violence of his sectarian prejudices to himself, and not to obtrude them on the British House of Commons. After a few words from Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN, Mr. BELLEW defended the grant, and contended that the s e 'esiol at Drogheda had given the utmost satisfaction. In the county ire bad the honour to represent, in which the town of Drogheda was situated, the Education Board had done the greatest good. There were fourteen or fifteen of these schools in his own county, mid so far from the general opinion being adverse to them, the names of four or five Protestant magis trates and High Tory gentlemen were appended to the requi sitions, praying for their establishment. In the province of Ulster alone there were no fewer than nine hundred such schools.—( Cheers. ) Sir ROBERT INGLIS, who was very indistinctly heard, was understood to deprecate the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin accusing the Hon. Gentleman behind him (Mr. Plunkett) of sectarianism, because he had defended his religion. Mr. O'CONNELL—The Hon. Baronet had charged him with accusing the Hon. Gentleman of sectarian principles, because he had defended his religion. He had done no such thing ; but he accused both the lion. Gentleman and the Hon. Baronet of sectarian feelings when they assailed his religion. The Hon. Gentleman, if he mistook not, had used the word " Popery." Why, if there were a nick-name, as indeed there was, would he use it in that House ? If he used the word " heretic" in the House, be would deserve to be put out of it. He never had used, and he never would use, any word deroga tory of the Protestant religion. With respect to the monks at Ennis, they were called monks, and he had said so. They were called educational monks, but in the definition of the laws they were not monks, because they bad taken no oaths which would bring them within the statute prohibiting the increase of monks hi Ireland. They had allowed themselves to be registered, but had done so under protest. Lord MOR PETH said, with reference to the observation that the vote had been brought on unexpectedly, that it had stood in the votes in its place since the middle of March.— ( Hear, hear.) If any Protestant parent sending a Protestant child to these schools met with any practice which could give him conscientious offence, it would be contrary to the grounds on which they were founded, and he had no doubt that any such complaint would receive from the Board effectual re dress. With reference to the charge of their being uniformly favourable to the Catholic religion, and only having been taken up by the Cetholic population, he had the satisfaction of finding, on looking to the Return which formed part of the Report on the table, that of the applications from laymen'in the province of Protestant Ulster the great majority were from Protestants.—( Cheers.) After a few words from Mr. YOUNG, Mr. HARDY said he was not surprised to hear that Pro testants objected to a course of education founded on a system of compromise, and keeping back the whole of the Bible. It became the duty of the Protestants, and more especially of the Dissenters of this country, to take• care that, in giving a prafessedly moral and religious education, they were not giving a really sectarian one. There was one practice against which it was most desirable to proceed—it was the holding schools in chapels, for when they were held in chapels the priest had frequent opportunities of getting the Frotestant among the Roman Catholic children, and inculcating his doctrines into the minds of bath.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. GRATTAN was astonished at the sublime ignorance of the Hon. Gentleman.—(A laugh.) Had the lion. Gen tleman read the • series of questions published by the Educa tion Board, on the very subject to which he had just adverted ? Had he read them ? When he answered the question he would get up again. —( A laugh.) Mr. HA RD Y—l have seen the book.- Mr. G R ATTAN—Have you read it?—(Renewed laugh ter, and cries of " Order !") Mr. HARDY—Yes, I have read it—(Cheers) —and I can tell the Hon. Gentleman more than that—l can hunt out in that book doctrines that are inconsistent with any doctrines professed by any Protestant.-4 Cheers.) Mr. GRATTAN—It was quite clear the Hon. Gentlemen was a bad lawyer, because he had made two replies to one question.—( A laugh ) The very first question put and signed by Mr. Terry was, " L any ground on which you propose to build a school situated contiguous to a chapel-yard ?" What was the fact? Why that the building a school in such a si tuation was in direct opposition to the regulations of' the Board. Such a charge was only what he had to expect from persons who attended mountebank societies—( Hear, hear) — societies in which charges were brought against the Catholic Church as false as heii—( Hear, and laughter)—and after wards they talk of being the supporters of education. He re jected the support of the people upon that - side of the House; they had set up Catholics in Ireland against Protestants, till they had made-that island a demoniac assembly.—( A laugh.) Lord SANDON begged to observe that the evidence from all sides tended to show that the schools were built near the chapels. Sir J. HOBIIPUSE then said it had been stated, and he was afraid with truth, that there were many points of difference between Protestants and Catholics on which they could never be got to agree ; but surely if there were points upon which they did not differ, it became the duty of all parties not to dis turb those points.—( Hear, hear.) He would also remark, that if any attempts were made to do away with those differ ences it ought to bo at an early period of life, before the mind became prejudiced in those opinions. As to the grant, it would be the duty of Government to see' that it was not mis ennlied, and if the Noble La d could prove a single case in w hi c h i e ener care was not ta' en, Government would unhesitat ingly remedy th e evil• lie 1 o,led, however, that all parties would join in promoting K e lsotion which was for the peace and prosperity of the whole country. Mr. FINCH said that the-effect of the efe eseepment system of education in Ireland hitherto had been, that the Prcie - :::'.Pt children had not been able to avail themselves of it. He had received a statement from a gentleman lately come from Ire land in regard to this subject, which he would read.—( Loud cries of " Name, name.") He had no hesitation in naming the gentleman. It was the Rev. Robert Daly.—( Cheers and laughter.) The Hon. Mem' er t ien read a paper, which stated that the writer had visited se - , era schools, which were held is THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, JMN 14, 1835. the Roman Catholic chapels, and which received grants. - from the Commissioners. In one of these schools there were 146 Catholics and no Protestants, yet this was called a general system of education. In another there were about 3:)0 Catho lics and not one Protestant, and there was no scriptu -c ederca tion; but tile teacher was in the act of reading a lecture upon the acts of faith, hor • and charity , Ape, . . Lord MORPETH hoped that Mr. Daly .would send his complaints to the Government, and they should certainly be forwarded to the Board of C•om►nnSioncrs. fie did not think when there were no children in a school but Catholic.chil drea, that it could be considered altogether a grievance if they were instructed i❑ the Catholic faith—(Hear, hear), notwith standing the enormity of giving a lecture on the acts of faith, hope, and charity. Mr. PLUM rr RE then said, that as there appeared to be sense misunderstanding as to the meaning of what he had pre ..ionslv said, he begged leave to read a statement sent to him by a Graham, in regard to a visit paid by that gentleman to the school (we believe of Erker). This gentleman stated that on inquiry he found that the school had been established in I 527, that the visitors were the friars of the convent, and that there was an altar at which mass was read every morning and evening. —( A laugh.) On asking if Protestant children were required to attend mass, the answer was, " Yes, they must attend." It was also stated that the school was daily opened and closed with mass—( A laugh)—and that the per ' sons who officiated were friars from the convent. It was also said that the Protestant children who were assiduous in at tending mass, received a new suit of clothes annually. The question was, whether Protestants should be called upon to support a system, which he, in common with many others, considered bad, in as far as it excluded the Scriptures, which was one among the many other means employed to rivet the chains of darkness. • Mr. G. F. YOUNG had heard with surprise the speeches of the two Gentlemen who had last spoken. From what be considered ill-considered premises, those Gentlemen had en deavoured- to support opinions which he had long considered as being one of the chief causes of the evils of Ireland.— ( Hear.) He bad visited Ireland a few months ago for the first time. He had considered it his duty to pay a visit to the central establishment at Dublin, and made himself master of the system followed at that establishment. Speaking as a member of the Church of England, and as one deeply ren sible of the calls which the Church of England had upon him, he would say that having taken away and perused copies of the books used in that establishment, his conscientious con viction was, that if the principle were once admitted that no sect ought to force their own doctrines upon those who did not believe in them, but merely ought to content themselves with teaching those doctrines in which both Protestants and Catholics agreed—if that principle were once admitted, he would say that no system could be proposed more likely to have that effect. His firm opinion was, that the course fol lowed by the Commissioners had the greatest prospect of suc cess upon the morals of the mass of the population in Ireland. Mr. BODKIN said that the school of Ekmar was princi pally supported by Mr. James Daly, the brother of the re doubted hero who came over to fight the battle of Protestant ism at Exeter Hall. If the Hon. Member had made inquiry before he had made the statement he had just given utterance to, he would not have done so. [The Hon. Gentleman ex cited much laughter by concluding with saying, " Gentlemen, I thank you f r the attention you have paid to me."] Mr. JAMES GRATTAN regretted the tone that had pre vailed throughout the debate. He thought the funds not now voted were utterly insufficient ; they should have a large sur plus applied for the object. The establishment should be on a more extensive scale than it now was. He hoped also that a more correct statement would be made out with respect to these schools next year, so that there could be no doubt as to the truth of the statements made. Mr. NYSE said that they had been told that the Bible - had been excluded from the new schools, but the charge now was a want of Christian charity in adopting a system to prevent Roman Catholic and Protestant children from being edu cated together. The truth was, that from the conduct Ho nourable Gentlemen pursued they seemed anxious to divide Ireland into two sects, entertaining the most rancorous feel ingi the one towards the other. Except in doctrinal points there was but little difference between the Catholic and Epis copal Church of England, but it would appear from the tone of the discussion, that Hon. Gentlemen wished to carry the differences which existed into every act of social life. He would not charge the individuals whose authority had been so repeatedly referred to this night in support of the statement made, but he would say that they laboured under the grossest errors and ignorance. He trusted that the present system of education would be extended throughout the country. Mr. W. ROCHE denied the existence of partiality in the schools. Mr. FINCH observed that the Hon. Member for Tyne mouth appeared to have made rather an extraordinary state ment, when he said that though he had been but a very short time in Ireland he had made himself master of all the details of the system of education there pursued. The Hon. Member said that be had perused all the works introduced into the schools. He had in his hand a pamphlet, which, in his opi nion, contained most objectionable observations. In one version of the scriptures the expression was used " it shall crush the serpent's head," but in the Roman Catholic version it is rendered " she shall crush the serpent's head." Although there might be apparently little difference in the sense of these, still a most important distinction was drawn. The ' words used in the note to the passage' are, " Oh I Holy Blessed Virgin Miry, you were promised from the beginning of the world that by your seed you should crush the serpent's head." Now he thought that this was one of the most ob jectionable expressions that could be introduced into a work for the education of both Catholics and Protestants.—( Hear. ) He denied that the Bible had been excluded from any of the Kildare-street schools. Mr. G. F. YOUNG, in explanation, said that it appeared to him that the Hon. Gentleman seemed to have taken a les son from the polemical disputants who had recently figured in Exeter Hall.—( Hear, hear,. and laughter.) The Hon. Gen tleman had just referred to a passage to be met with in one of the books used in the schools, which did not appear to him (Mr. Young) to be so objectionable as the Hon. Gentleman appeared to imagine it to be. It had not been insidiously in troduced, however, by a Catholic, but by a zealous ProteStant of the Establishment, and as sound a scholar as was to be found in the empire, who contended that it was the correct translation of the text, and who challenged any person to dis • pute it with him.—( Cries of " Name, name.") He could not do so, as it might appear invidious ; but he was prepared to maintain the position he had taken. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to make one observation, with reference to what had been said by the Noble Lord, the Mem ber for Liverpool, of Mr. Inglis's book. The Noble Lord had referred to it as a book of authosity. Now, although he (Mr. O'Connell) was prepared to admit that there was a great deal of truth in it, he must say that there were many mistakes in it—ay, and wilful mistakes. By being quoted in the man ner in which it had been, an authority had been given to it which it did not deserve. He was sorry that the Hon. Mem ber for Kent had referred to the authority which he had quoted, as to mass being said in these schools. He could not charge the Hon. Member for an English county with uttering a false hood ; indeed, he knew that be was incapable of so doing— .but still he exhibited an instance of the grossest ignorance. He should be cautious before he was inclined to give currency to such silly calumnies, which, indeed, would appear so, if they were not so utterly ridiculous. He trusted that, on a future occasion, this subject would be discussed 'al a different tone and feeling from that exhibited on the present. Mr. HARDY denied that the eharge of bigotry could fairly be brought against those who opposed the present grant. He had ever been favourable to Catholic Emancipa tion and to the equality of civil eights for members of every re ligious creed ; but it was a very different thing for a man at tached to his religion, and who wished to be saved by it, to see his children brought up in a religion which he did not approve. Mr. PLUMPT RE denied that this was a party question, or that he bad ever been opposed to a system of education under which children of all religious creeds could be brought up. He had, however, a very strong feeling as to the course now pursued, and should feel it his duty to divide the House on the subject.—(Loud cries of " Divide, divide.") Mr. D. JACKSON protested against the present system being called a system of united education of different sects. It was introduced to supersede another system which could be more fairly designated by that name. He denied that a broader basis for general education could be laid down than that acted upon by the Kildare-street Society. At the time at which the Commissioners of Inquiry made their Report there was a greater number of Catholics than Protestants in the schools of that Society; what, however, were the number of Protestant children in the new schools ? The truth was, that Protestant parents could not avail themselves of them— were afraid to send their children to them. hi one of the New Board schools which he had visited, he found that the whole of the children were paraded in the Roman Catholic chapel, and that there was not a single copy of the Holy Scrip tuies, or even a selection from it, in the school, but that Dr. Hunter's Roman Catholic Catechism was used for all the children. The master of the school told him that they had not a single copy of the New Testament.- This, then, Was the system which was to impart education to Catholics and Protestants indiscriminately. Mr. SI-I Ell, rose amidst loud cries of " Question." He begged to observe that the date of the estimate was the Bth of April, that being a time when the Government allowed great discrimination in selecting and promoting learned individuals of the Irish bar, and amongst ethers his Hon. and Learned Friend, who had shown so much talent on this occasion. —( A laugh.) On a former occasion, however, his Hon. and Learned Friend showed a high talent of a different kind: as the Frenchman said, Il a le grand talent pour le silence. • ( Laughter.) Mum was then the word.—(Cheers and laughter.) The then Secretary for Ireland made no amend ment in the Estimate; it was proposed in the presence of many pious persons who sat beside him—his Hon. and Learned Friend was one ; another was the Learned Recorder of Dub lin, his good friend Banquo, whom he saw not in his place— " Would he were here," and not a single scruple occurred to any of them.—( Much cheering and laughter.) There was his answer to all that had been said by his Hon. and Learned Friend—it was the estimate, and the name of " T. F. Fre mantle" was at the end of it.—(Renewed laughter,) Mr. JACKSON was aware of the fact to which his Hon. and Learned Friend adverted, and he would tell him this in perfect good humour, that if a vote for 35,0001. had been pro posed by the late Prime Minister of the Crown, or the late Secretary for Ireland, he should have risen in his place and mane the same statement then that he had this evening.— (Cries of " Oh I" and a laugh.) And he begged to tell the Hon. and Learned Gentleman why he did not rise in his place on that occasion. It was but a short time he had bad the ho nour of being in the House, and he was little acquainted with the mode of inoceedirq 7.:41; business, and little aware when it became a Member to rise.- receding . Governmenthad continued the grant on the principle that they found it work ing, and they did not think it right to suppress it, but rather to allow it to go on for a year. It was the preceding thsvern ment to Sir Robert Peel's that made a grant on the principle that it was right to give a year's notice, and he did think it but fair to do so, because new buildings had actually been com menced on the faith of the new grant. The motion was then agreed to. The following votes were also agreed to :- 200/. for the Marine Society, Dublin. 1,0001. for the Female Orphan School. 2,5001. for the Lock Hospital. 1,000/. for the Lying in Hospital. 300/. for Stephen's Hospital. 3,8001. for the Fever Hospital. 500/, for the Hospital of Incurables. On the motion that 8,9281. be granted for• the Roman Ca tholic College in Ireland, Mr. SINCLAIR made some remark that was inaudible, but in reply to which, Lord MORPETH said he could not consent to refuse to set apart so small a sum for the religious education of so large a number of the people. Mr. WARBURTON urged the extension of the principle of general instruction sanctioned by the Government. Mr. LE FROY objected to the grant, on the ground that it was inconsistent with the established religion of another profession. Mr. O'CONNELL was quite disposed to extend the prin ciple of toleration. The Hon. Member was perfectly wel come to indulge in his conscientious scruples, if he would but allow the same to others. There was an old saying, that " that what was good for the goose was good for the gander." The Protestants of Belgium were of a more liberal spirit than were those of this country. Out of four Protestant Bishops, three had voted for the building of a new church. Mr. FINCH, in a few scarcely audible observations, ob jected to the vote, and suggested that either the grant of 8,500/. should not be made to Maynooth College, or that twice that amount (17,000/.) should be given for Roman Ca tholic charities. Mr. O'CONNELL said that the Hon. Gentleman had charged the Roman• Catholics with duplicity. No man could make that charge of duplicity against others, but one who judged from himself ; and he (Mr. O'Connell) repudiated the foul and false charge.—(Cries of " Order.") What ! (con tinued the Hon. and Learned Member) is such a charge to be made, and are we to be prohibited from noticing it ? Oh, no ; it may do at Exeter Hall --(Loud cheers.)—but it will not do here. There is no policeman here to put down those who attempt to defend themselves. I repeat, therefore, that I return the slander to the foul source from which it came. Sir INGLIS said that the Hon. and Learned Gentle nian had quite misunderstood his Hon. Friend. He was sure that his Hon. Friend had said nothing bearing the construction which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had put upon his words. Mr. FINCH explained. After a few words from Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Wyse, and Mr. Lefroy, the vote was agreed to without a division. The House then resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again : T - CUSTOMS' ACTS (TEA DUTIES.) On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, the House went into Committee on these Acts, when the Right Hon. Gentleman proc ee d e d t o s t a t e th e course which it was intended by the Government to pursue on this subject. After acknowledging the considerate manner in which the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, had abstained from pressing his question as to the intention of the Government, when he learned that the Government had not come to any definitive resolution, he said that all who were at all familiar with the subject, knew, that prior to the alienation of the East India Company's Charter, the duties on tea were regulated by an ad valorem scale, arranged according to the auction duties. It was p er f ec tly o b v i ous , however, that so soon as the opening of the trade with China had been ef fected, the ad valorem scale could no longer be continued. It became necessary, therefore, to revert to some other system of duties. The object was to try if it were practicable, without inconvenience to the trade, to lower the duty on the low-priced teas. A Committee was appointed to investigate the subject— ( Heir, hear, hear.) Before that Committee a vast body of evidence was brought, the tendency of which was to prove that the idea of having a single• duty on tea of every variety of value ought to be abandoned. But the Committee did not come to a decision on the question without much difficulty and doubt ; and, after all, what was their recommendation? That the rates of duty which they suggested should be considered experimental. A year had since passed; and the question was, whether they should now adhere to the rates of duty, or whether they should adopt two of them, or whether they should confine themselves to one. He would first state the conclusion to which his Majesty's Govern ment bad come, and he would then state the reasons on which that conclusion was founded. They thought, then, that the time had arrived when it would be expedient to apply to that great branch of our trade the simple principle of a uniform rate of duty. Did the present system answer the purpose for which it was intended? Had it proved to be actually an ad valorem duty ? If it did, he should be far from wishing to abandon it. But on examining them, he could not find . in the present rates of duty the elements which marked an ad valorem duty. It was not an ad valorem duty ; it was a discriminating duty. There were teas totally differing in value coming under the same rate of duty. That was a great inconvenience, but there were other evils more serious still. The qualities of teas of different kinds, nevertheless, sometimes approached so nearly as to occasion great difficul ties and disputes between the merchants and the officers of the customs ; and to give the latter so tremendous a power that without meaning to throw out the slightest imputation against them (on the contrary, he was sure they had a just claim to the praise of having discharged their duties most con scientiously), he must say that it ought not to exist. Persons whose salaries were only two or three hundred pounds a year had the power, on their own discretion and judgment, of vary ing the duty on a cargo of tea to an amount of more thousands of pounds than they annually received hundreds. Another evil was, that the present system prevented the extension of the trade to outports, in consequence of the difficulty of fairly levying the discriminating duties. These were among the reasons which had induced his Majesty's Government to give the preference to a uniform rate of duty. There were two points to be considered; the first, what the amount of that uniform duty should be ; the second, at what period the new law should come into operation. He held in his hand adocument to which he wished to . call the attention of the COmmittee. It was a calculation of the produce of the dif ferent rates of duty on tea which had been collected since the opening of the trade.—( Hear.) It appeared that from the 22d of April, 1834,11t0 the sth of April, 1835, the amount of tea on which the duty of eighteen pence a pound had been collected, was 5,300,000 lbs. ; that the amount of tea on which the duty of 2s. 2d. a pound had been collected, was 22,000,000 lbs. ; and that the amount of tea on which the duty of 3s. a pound had been collected, was 1,300,000 lbs. The amount of revenue received was 3,021,0001. Now, if the entire amount of tea had been rated at the highest rate of duty, the revenue would have been 119,0001. more ; if it had been rated at 2s. Id., the revenue would have been 14,9001. less ; if it had been rated at 25., it would have been 122,200/. less. He would now advert to the period at which the ope ration of the uniform rate of duty, might advantageously com mence. Nothing could be more unjust than to carry the pro posed alteration into immediate effect. Persons who had or • dered large quantities of bohea would have a good ground of complaint, if they were compelled to gay 7d. or B.J. a pour.d more duty than the rate established by law at the time they gave their orders. In order, therefore, to give full and timely notice to all parties, he intended to propose that the present duties should continue in operation until the 2d of July, 1836. All who might import tea after that period would have had abundant notice on the subject. After a brief re. capitulation of the motives of the change, and of the advan tages _which might be expected to result from it, the Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving a resolution to the effect " that the present rates of duty on tea shall cease and determine on the 2d of July, 1836 ; and that in lieu thereof, there be levied and paid on all teas imported for home con sumption a uniform duty of 2s. ld. per pound." Mr. YOUNG asked whether the amount mentioned by the Right Hon. Gentleman of 23,600,0001b5. of tea was the whole amount brought to charge in one year. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repeated that it was the amount brought to charge from the 22d of April, 1834, to the sth of April, 1835. Mr. CR A WFO RD said that there was not a single point in the speech just made by the Right Hou. Gentleman which had not been urged upon the Committee last year, and which ought tion n \ o v t (in been i e, l hi e Right nizig distinctly t opinion) l t io n o have . f oGr ee foretold dembyainfluencedlmadi‘h nowire.i rcd statederatel vr Crawford). or i determina tion. tlhfeefNaarcrt'a subject connected a ith fiscal arrangements had been treated peculiarly in defiance of all acknowledged commercial principles, it was the consideration last year of the duty on tea. As to the practical result to be expected from the pro posed change, the Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of 28,600,000 lbs. of tea as having been the quantity brought to charge from the 22 d of April, 1834, to the sth of April, 1835. Now the consumption of tea in 1833-1834 was 33,000,000 of lbs., and he was perfectly satisfied that there was an increasing consumption, and that the annual consumption now was 36,000,0 00 of lbs. If the object of the Right Hon. Gentle man was to obtain an increase of revenue from the duty on tea , then he might be justified in proposing the uniform duty of two shillings and a penny a pound ; but if his object were merely to secure the same revenue as at present, he (Mr. Crawford) was convinced that a uniform duty of two shillings a pound would be enough. Further, he would say, that if the duty on all teas but Bohea were immediately reduced to two s hillings and a penny por pound, and the duty on Bohea kept at its present rate of eighteen-pence per pound, the increased consumption of Bohea would be such as greatly to increase the revenue.—(The Hon. Gentleman here entered into a variety of calculations in proof of his statement.) The CHANCELLOR the whole year, ren ofetlire, but EX theyCHE EXCHEQUER beggedjust Rust asgood some words in reply. The figures which h e h a d rea d did n : e t co his argument. With respect t o th e proposition oto of od i . the Hon Member, it was elle which, on reflection, he (the Chant cellos of the Exchequer) was sure the Hort. Member would not persevere in recommending. The Hon. Member proposed to suspend the operation of the proposed measure on the lower descriptions of tea, but to carry into effect the reduc tion of the duty on the higher descriptions. Now in what condition would that put the owners of large quantities of the lower descriptions of tea, who had bought it when there was a high duty on the higher descriptions ? It would drive them out of the market. Mr. HUME regretted that his Majesty's Government had determined to abandon the ad valorem duty. It appeared to him to be contrary to all principle to lay a duty of 300 per cent, on cheap teas, and a duty of not 100 per cent. on others. - _ If Government were determined on this measure, there was o alternative, but he could l:ay.; wishel they had tried the existing system foe another year. Sir JOHN -R AE REID declared that Le had ❑ever enter tained a doubt but that the system which the Right Hon. Gen- tlemaa now proposed was the system which ought to have been adopted in the first instance. Large sums had been lost by the course which had been taken ; but that 'circumstance might, perhaps, ultimately do good. - Mr. GOULBURii, while he allowed that it "did honour to the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, that having discovered their error they would not perszvere in it, could not help being amused to bear the Right lion. Gentlemen use the same arguments, and almost the same words, which had been used last year by the opponents of the system then adopted. He regretted that so long a time must elapse before the new pro position could come into active operation. As to the amount of the new and uniform rate of duty, that was a point on which he would not then trouble the Committee. He con fessed, however, that he doubted whether a duty of two shil lings per pound would not be productive of as large a revenue. Mr. PEASE was in favour of the new arrangement. Mr. G. F. YOUNG considered the principle of the pre sent arrangement unjust.' Mr. WARBURTON thought that when the interest of the consumer was taken into account, the rate of duty ought to be diminished. _ _ _ After a few words from some other Hon. Members, the resolution was agreed to. TURNPIKE TRUSTS. Mr. F. MAULS obtained leave to bring in a Bill to con solidate ,turnpike trusts. He merely wished to introduce the Bill ; for it was not his intention to press its enactment in the present session. DIVORCE BILL. Mr. TOOKE moved the following resolution :—" That for the more careful and convenient conduct, through this House, of Divorce Bills, Estate Bills, and Bills of Naturalization, it is expedient that at the commencement of the next, and of each succeeding session, a Select Committee, consisting of not more than nine Members (three of whom to be the quorum) should be appointed, to whom shall be referred every Divorce, Naturalization, and Estate Bill, on the second reading thereof respectively ; such Committee to examine witnesses, and verify the documentary evidence adduced in support of each of such Bills, and to report thereon accordingly ; and that, from and after the appointment of such Select Committee, the practice of -hearing Counsel and examining witnesses on Divorce Bills at the Bar of this House be discontinued, except when other wise specially ordered." Mr. RUTHVE,N opposed the resolution, on the ground that he would not have such important matters referred to a Select Committee composed of nine individuals. On a division, there appeared— For the resolutiori Against it The discussion on the resolution was then adjourned, and the House rose at twenty minutes past one o'clock. ROUSE OF LORDS, Juts 13. A Message from the Commons, by Mr. EwAßTand others, brought up the Prisoners' Counsel Bill. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Bridport, in favour of the Corporation Bill. He would take that opportunity of denying a statement made by some of the newspapers of that morning, to the effect that he was chargeable with having procured the appointment of Sir F. Pal grave as one of the Commissioners of Inquiry into Corporations. With that appointment he had nothing to do. So far from that, he (Lord B.) had, though he acknowledged that the Learned Knight was both clever and experienced; yet he bad not disguised his opinion, that he had also some very curious and outrageous crotchets in his head, which might probably prevent him from co-operating in an efficient manner with his brother Commis sioners. The Noble and Learned Lord then presented peti tions for the removal of the Stamp Duties on Newspapers from Bridport, Fifeshire, Wellingborough, and other places. CATHOLIC MARRIAGE BILL. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE gave notice, that he would move the second reading of the above Bill on Monday next. PRISONERS' COUNSEL BILL. Lord BROUGHAM said, that though he was friendly to the principles of this Bill, there were some clauses in it, to which he could not possibly give his consent. Lord LYNDHURST suggested that the way would be to refer the Bill to a Committee up stairs. Lord BROUGHAM considered that that would be the better course, and he would propose that the Bill be read a first time then, a second time to-morrow, pro forma, be printed, and then sent to a Committee up stairs. The Bill was then read a first time upon this understanding. CERTIORARI BILL. Lord BROUGHAM withdrew the Bill upon this subject, with the consent of his Noble Friend the Chief Justice, and substituted one of a more comprehensive nature in its stead, which was read a first time. COMMISSION OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION. In answer to a question from Lord FARNHAM, Viscount D UNC ANN 0 N said he expected that the Report of the Commissioners on the above subject would very shortly be produced. ORANGE PROCESSIONS. Lord FARNHAM moved for some additional returns as to the number of commitments made under the Procession Abo lition Act, where the parties did not celebrate any anniversary. He thought the spirit of the law only applied to processions held for the purpose of celebrating anniversaries. Viscount MELBOURNE did not consider that the law was so confined in its nature, but he had no objection to the Returns being made.—Ordercd. The Earl of RADNOR moved for a Return of the number of bastard children affiliated at the various sessions of 1834 and 1835. Ordered. Lord TEYNHAM gave notice that on Friday he would move for a similar return of the commitments under the New Poor Law Bill. POST OFFICE. The Duke of RICHMOND in moving for certain Returns respecting the Post Office Revenue, said it was not his intention to make any charge against an indi vidual who could not be present to answer for himself, and he thought that, bad that Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded acted in the same spirit, he thought he would have acted in a more fair and manly way. He would, however, take the opportunity of denying, in the strongest manner, that there had been a defalcation in the accounts of the Post office during the last 10 years to the amount of 1,900,0001. Had the Hon. Gentleman only looked to the Return he pro fessed to read from, he would have found that in the very next line to that from which lie quoted, there was not one shilling unaccounted for, as the Returns which he now moved for would show. He moved for a Return of the receipts and expenditure of the establishment during the last 10 years. He hoped his Noble Friend would have no objec tion to the making of such a Return, as it would prove most clearly that the office kept its accounts correctly, and had not lost one single shilling by post-masters or otherwise, during the whole of the period to which he had referred. The Earl of LICHFIELD had no objection to the produc tion of the Returns—so far from that, he was much obliged to his Noble Friend for the opportunity of making some state ments in opposition to those made by an Hon. Gentleman in another place.—( Hear.) Ho did not altogether blame the gentleman alluded to ; for if he believed there was a tenth of the abuses in the establishment that he had brought for ward, then it was his duty to bring it under the notice of Parliament ; but he ought to have made himself better acquainted with the facts of the case before he made such grave charges against a public establishment. He regretted exceedingly that the Hon. Gentleman bad made such grave charge!) against a Gentleman who had been for 50 years in the service of the public, arid who had acquitted himself in his office of Secretary to the Post Office with so much honour to himself and benefit to the public, which was evi dent from the vastly increased revenue which had been brought in under his management. Of late years a great increase in the receipts of the Post-office was to be found ; and that in crease, it was the opinion of those most competent to offer it, was mainly attributable to the great facilities of communication which, under the management and by the advice of Sir Francis Frecling, were devised and perfected. Another charge brought against the Post-office by the Hon. Member in ques tion related to an item of 2,5001 for the greasing and repa:r ing of wheels. This sum the Hon. Member was pleased to assert had never got beyond St. Martin's-le-Grand. Into whose hands it went the Hon. Member did not say ' • but if he pleased to call for the requisite vouchers he could be easily satisfied that no improper application of it had been made.- -( Hear, hear.) At present this was the only charge to which the country was put for the mail coaches, and in the next contract it was to be discontinued altogether. Another charge of the Honourable Member related to the Money Order office. He complained that no Return of the receipts of this office had been made to the House of Commons. Now the fact was, as the Hon. Member must have well-known, this office did not properly come within the Post-odce Depart ment. It was a private office, car r ied on un d er th e sanc ti on of the Pose office, witlina view of securing poor persons de sirous of transmitting small sums of money from the risk of loss. He was not disposed to contend that this was a good arrangement ; but until some other was framed, by which the Money Order Office might become part of the Post Office, he did not think it would be advisable to discontinue it. The Hon. Member next complained that a sum of 25,0001. or 30,000/. a year was unnecessarily spent upon mail coaches. Now the fact was, the public did not pay ss. for mail coaches. They were paid for by the persons who contracted to horse the mails, and it was well known that so small was the sum paid to those persons, that it often did not suffice to defray the cost of the coach and the duty. The Noble Lord concluded by expressing his readiness to afford the Noble Duke the Re turns he asked for, and expressed his conviction that the result of any inquiry which might be instituted would prove the Post Office Department worthy of that public confidence which was reposed in it.—( Hear.) Lord WALLACE felt sure there could be but one opinion as to the conduct of the Noble Duke (the Duke of Richmond) while at the head of the Post Office Department.—( Hear.) There had been much said o f the expenses of' mail coaches ; but the real truth was, that they did not cost the country one shilling. He thought it inexpedient to dwell on the details of the arrangements of the establishment, and would merely ob serve, that the appointment of the Commission was, he was sure, agreeable to the opinions of the House, and would realise the anticipations of the good entertained from it. Lord MAR YBOROUGH said as ho happened to have some knowledge of the establishment, having been connected with it, he begged to offer a few remarks. Nothing equld he ' more proper than the conduct of the Noble PVtica in bringing forward his motion in his elm vindication; and the motion "13 CAP. Paul in aiding an opportunity for the vindica tion of the officers of that establishment. It was an act of justice to set their conduct in its proper light, and defend their, ;roll the attacks made upon them. A Noble Lord in the. naher House, who was one of the Commissioners appointed to examine into the state of thy Post Office, stated, or was re orteel to have stated, that he had m-ny proofs of the ob aiir.acy of the officers, and their• unwillingness ;to afford the information required of. them. He said they see.ned disposed studiously to conceal all knowledge of the wasking of the system pursued in the institution. Undoubtedly it was their duty to give every iaformation in their power, and he (Lord M.) felt bound to say that while in office he found them always disposed to afibrd every information. He never heard or knew of any obstinacy or disinclination on their part. On the con trary, he always understood that every information was promptly and cheerfully given. When he read of the asser tion lie attributed to the Noble Lord, he went to the Post • (Alice in order to ascertain what grounds there were for the statement, and he ascertained that there were thirty precepts already made out Share, and with the greatest celerity, and" that a number of officers had been examined. He himself ex emined all the ()films, and asked them if they ever refused to give information. They all assured him they had not. He next asked them if the Commissioners,ever complained of their tardiness or reluctance to give it, and they declared to him that they had not. Whatever questions lie asked them they answered promptly and freely. This he declared on his honour as a gentleman. He was sure the Noble Lord (Lowther, we presume) never said what was attributed to him, and that it was all a mistake of the report. He ( Lord Maryborough) en tifelv agreed in what fell from the Chancellor of the Exche quer in reply to that part of the Noble Lord's assertions—that if any obstinacy on the part of any officer of the Post-office .were proved, he should be immediately removed. Undoubtedly it was the duty of Government to dismiss that officer, as a, proper punishment for his contumacy. But was it not strange that if this contumacy existed no complaint was made of it to the heads of the department? No Report to that effect was ever made, and he would take this as some evidence that the offence was not really committed. After this explanation he would leave it to their Lordships to say whether there was any foundation for this charge against the officers of the Post-office ? His experience while connected with the establishment, and the solemn declarations of the officers, were evidence to him. that the charges were not tenable. He would avoid goiaig into the details of the question ; but it was a duty and ;in act of justice to a man who was not surpassed by any pulaiic func tionary in diligence, zeal, integrity, and ability, to :say a word in his behalf. By the statements made in another place it . would seem as if grounds were laid for the di sm i ssa l o f Si r F. Feeding. There was, however, no fact alleged against him, no incompetency, no want of honesty, diligence, or skill. The object appeared to be to d%ate an improper prejudice against him. It was not said that he was guilty of peculation, or was imbecile in his office, but that he absorbed all the powers of the Postmaster- General, and abused that power. When he (Lord Maryborough) undertook the. duties of that office, and found such an officer as Sir F. Freeling there, he certainly did avail himself of his services—of his long expe rience, rend well-known ability. It would be wrong if he did not use the services of a man of undoubted talent and. well known assiduity, who had been fifty years connected with the department in a confidential and important capacity. Sir F. Freeling was not a mere cypher—his intellect was as strong, and his capability for business as active, as those of most of their Lordships. It was said Sir F. Freeling made state ments which were adopted by the Postmaster-General. It was true the Postmaster-General could not do his duty with out being much in the office. There were many important subjects to be considered, and a great mass of voluminous documents to be consulted, which should be previously ex amined and classified by the Secretary, whose opinion and explanations it was often desirable to have. If it were a re gularly adopted system that the Postmaster-General should merely sign the documents handed to him by the Secretary without examination, then it was a bad one; but if he ex-- aminecl all the documents furnished as he (Lord Maryborough) and, be was sure, the Noble Duke were in the habit of doing, and pronounced their own judgment upon them, then surely it could not be censurable to have the auxiliary opinion of the Secretary. He (Lord Maryborough) often decided against the views of the Secretary, and the Secretary cheerfully co incided with him. It was again alleged that the Secretary did all the duty, and the Postmaster-General neglected his busi.' • ness. If that were so, then it- was the .Postmaster-General and not the Secretary that should be accused. Another charge was that the Postmaster-General was but the apprentice of the Secretary. An apprentice he (Lord Maryborough) derstood to be one bound to his master, subject to his will and swayed by his judgment. In that view of the station of an apprentice he (Lord Maryborough) should say that be was•::.: rather too old, and too self-willed to be an apprentice. He not the sort of man to serve an apprenticeship. It was his lot to have filled many offices in- several departments in' which he had a devilish deal of labour—(A laugh)--.-and if be were not a man of business he should never have been able :to do the duty, yet he always acted on his own -judgnielit; His place at the Post-office, he would affirm, was no sine.... cure, for he did his own duty, and only used the Secretary when he was bound to use him. It was shocking that a mall - like Sir Francis Freeling, who possessed more assiduity, talent; and zeal, than any man he ever knew, should be thus att-acked; and it would be a disgrace to England that such a elan, after. - fifty years faithful service, against whom n o peeith e ac t of misconduct was alleged, should be suffered to bn thus wounded in public estimation. One of the worst possol e acts would be the removal of such a man; and those who at present pos sessed power should pause before they dismissed him. Ho would refer to one fact more, which appeared in the catalogue • of accusations. It was said that it was a practice to burn the stopped letters, and put the money into the pockets of the officers. Now, such a practice amounted to felony, and 'Was: punishable with death. The charge was too absurd to be ei), tertained. Could the Gentleman who made it prove it ?'-• he could, then, in not doing so, he was an access or y to the . fact, and was chargeable with - felony...--( Hear, and laughter.) If lie could not prove it, was it not monstrous to cast those , imputations on a body of public officers? Mr. Peacock, the solicitor to the Post Office, who was not very negligent, voirld, eagerly snatch at the opportunity of punishing the delft). quents ; and if the Hon. Gentleman was at all cognizant Of. the fact, he would not be likely to escape. These observa tions he ( Lord Maryborough) thought it his duty to make in .. defence of - Sir F. Freeling and the officers of the establish . ' ment.—( Hear.) The Duke of WELLINGTON thought the discussion bad had gone far enough already. He thought it desirable that the business should not proceed further, as, if it did, it would be only creating a discussion on what occurred in another place, which would be inconvenient. In the present stage of the question details should not be gone into too minutely. The Earl of ROSSLYN said that while he was at .the head of the Post Office, he never knew an instance of .any officer ' having been a defaulter in furnishing any required information , or causing unnecessary delay or obstruction. On the contrary he found the utmost readiness to afford every facility of ob.. taining intelligence. No doubt there were occasional delay* unavoidable in all offices ; but if he found any voluntary or un - necessary delay on the part of any officers of the Post Offit.ee• he would feel it his duty to punish the parties, and prevent its recurrence. The return was agreed to. The Duke of RICHMOND said he was unwilling to saY more on the subject before their Lordships. In what - he had already' said he felt it necessary to disabuse the public m i n d of impressions that might be created by erroneous statements made in another place. It would be highly censurable if this officers of the establishment were not cleared.; and he took that opportunity of sasing that he cordially coincided in all -: that was said in vindication of them. He had occasion at s times to combat the prejudices of the cacers, and he was bound to say that he always found Sir P. Freeling most anxious to co-operate with him ; but he had another motion to make which was personal to himself. It was alleged that when lie Cbllle into office there were many married womel L Postmistres - ses, and that he insisted on their removal. It svag said that he removed thirty of them, and appointed single le - , males - in their place. It was - not the case, It was'said that /I married women, acting in the capacity of Postmistresses, I.)' came alefaultCrs to the revenue these would be a difficulty in enforcing the penalty ; but then h e th oug h t that-it was bette r to have the affairs of the Post-cfliecs in country towns cone ducted by married females, who would remain at home, atl not neglect their business by go i ng t o f a i rs , an d pl a ces 0 ' public resort and amusement, than by single females, especially when there was riot enough to require undivided time and at' tentian. It was a mistake to suppose thAt tbnexclusive patron age of the office was vested in him. It was in the hands of the Government, and be had only the poWer of confirming it, neu signing the commission. Whenever he found an objectionab le person recommended by the Government he objected to the appointment, and refused to sanction it. His great oliect to have experienced persons, who possessed a knowledge the details of the offi ce , appointed. He called th e atter - 11l ° of his Noble (Lord Spencer) to the lavish and. isepr.e; per use of the patronage of that departrneat, and shoeced In e f the propriety of appointing those only who had a knowledge, ° , the business, and bad claims to promotion. Whe n h e - fount' number of respectable persons about town, who had been 31' , prenticed as it were to the trade, he felt it his duty to recn."L mend them. The course he pursued caused a eonsiderar f saving to the revenue. He would state one fact as illustratiss e the stern regard lie had shown to merit exclusively. The Peet. mastership of Brighton, in the county of Sussex, which cOi i l his brother represented in Parliament, bec ame vac ant, an ( ` t a was natural to suppose that th e p a t ronage o f that p l ac e wel e a be at the disposal of his brother. His brother r e cornmen u ei , a person to him, arid he (the .Duke of Rich mon d) re fused • brother, and appointed a stranger, simply because he was: 4 - 30 years' standing in the business, and p ossesse d a good e" ractcr. He (Duke of Richmond) was willing to be put uf!°,, his trial ; he feared nothing. Let the G ent l eman w h o bron i e"' , the charges petition Parliament, anal he would meet h These . explanations he owed to his Sov ere i gn f or apPo,ntrog. him, and to Earl Grey for recommending him.--( b ea The Noble Duke then moved for a Return of married warns appointed as Postmistresses in 1831, 1832, and 1833. DENS'S THEOLOGY. The Bishop of EXETER gave notice that on Tile r / next he would ask the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) r-ae a ` sor ... a letter published in the public prints, signed " Dani.c l "` ay," and addressed to him, was received by him f th` l The Duke of RICHMOND mo ve d th a t th e Report ° Committee on Highways be received and printed. H° wc ict e anxious he was for the Bill, and h owever wildrig to IT et , the agricultural interest, he d isa pp rove d o f t h a t m ode 01 g tin; rid of the tolls, though they pressed on the fanner!: Several private Bills wore then advanced a stage, ai' u House adjourned. , • d .- - 13 I I? TH. the On the 12th at the Royal Horse Artillery B . 4 rraehst lady of Ca"taln Philip Sandilands, of a son. Loudon : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of Dr 112, Strand, at .The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the c o u Ol of Middlesex. RDYAI OTIC . SATURDAY I PRECISELY. Admission (e , , Catalogue One Exhibitor s art the 22d, or Thu W REA did, and to Sai P l iswe With paas:Fngruieed:a(si 44 rrd. a Ae l e theelugFgu on,irrißtn N t n dig Saturc from 8 h i P3 filler'slP e i ‘4l or r ti r t ihea t rse e s f dfir r i D a Nl n g ss f n,..e r° s : l . market; or to \% Gentlemen d ' .........___oll conveys/les AN A C address persons Inspection of " I are the sole man has been so const used by the most Warm 73ter, tc, (as: sensation. T ransmitted ( part of th e ki ugd Strand (adjoining , THE C( Ptve Shares in By - ; At Garraway's, unless an accept FIVE TV COURIE I nvestment, whic the patronage of influence of the Particulars of i Shareholders, an, of the Arti and the Conditio priar to the eitors, llasingha brother and Co.' GENERAL riIHE GE COMPA: Ii MIAIBURG mist Saturday, ea From I-IhMl3, 1 *lnn whence the N ICOLAY sail N r4 i f f Plin y v a triA : T it'a t • r e ha l Sr ..e nit e , \ VETi s a i lang it a n ent le g e r aY : d ir eD. 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Porsonn doin l mh otransac‘t busi Queetnent to cons and when it is cm "nd Perhaps t wel 've• one -quarter of Tribitt item in the e said to show tl ipplying the bee 1 - Best (Hetton's ,p 4 TO Best New Tanfield ADockhead Anchor Win Votit Wharf High Bridge AB] 'NbA l l the P, S::ree,taoterlastit'i:viCmie°llllEritaZCti , IG - i.I.T it Inv entorl J as r ece editor s of the Crs y e 1, from cases o o, °f t: ‘ , ~ ,d it o t reo: . s a , f l bl t , ,a b l t ae c , l fr : ' f t l oe ft y e l ero r s c: et o n t , :tb m ' a l. el l . i .: e .g si PO , t a ,l :l 1.1) contagion '' l i t 'enn, tended by o __"B. The ;sigh I lli o : ' ",,.,,ti:0.. °1 r ... " 5r e : ci O e t.,.. ( i. i , ' ,. : N) : 11 , 2 . 3 4 11 .. E . 1 :t 0 n ' ,.1 8 0 t 0110 , ,\83 r n . T r, ' e... s l 3iy b vi - eo u :ei r „, CCTV OF tl fora true fact, i Xrsat i ) en e ii,, tit; Loi. . 11 " 1)1 ne e a t a -a e g i w jli i lea h l 11 , I : : ° ,r :_ , -tt ti II : . 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