The Sun. — London, England, 1835-02-26 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEB. 25. The SPEAKr.ft entered the house at half-past Three o'clock, at which time there were about two hundred members present. Prayers were then read, and the house counted in the usual form, after which most of the members left the house. Lord GRANVILLE presented a petition from a place, the name of which we did not hear, in favour of the intended rail-way from London to Bristol. SMITHFIELD MARKET. The City Sheriffs, Raphael and Illidge, appeared at the Bar in their official robes, and presented a petition from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City of London, praying for leave to bring in a bill to alter and improve Smithfield Market. Dr. BOWRING gave notice that on the 14th of April he should move that a :Meet Committee be appointed to examine into and report Upon the state of the public accounts, with a view to bring the whole amount of the revenue of the United Kingdom under more •fficient parliamentary controul. An hon. member gave notice that on the 14th of April he should bring under the consideration of the house the distressed state of the linen weavers of Coventry. Mr. D. W. HARVL•'Y gave notice that he should move for the ap pointment of a select committee to enquire Into the revenue and appro. priation of the Queen Anne's Bounty and the revenues of the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster; and on the 28th of April he should bring under the consideration of the house the subject of the revision of the Pension List.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME gave notice that on the 11th of March he should call the attention of the house to the report of the select committee upon election expenses, and move for leave to bring in a bill to carry their recommendations into effect. And on the Wednesday following he should move for leave to bring in a bill to carry into effect the recom mendation of the committee upon light houses, with a view to bring them all under one management. [Sir Francis Burdett here entered the house, and came to the table for the purpose of being sworn; but the Clerk pointed to the clock, which indicated ten minutes put four, and intimated that he was too late. The hon. baronet then left the house evidently much disap.., pointed.] THE MALT TAX. The Hon. C. C. CAVENDISH presented a petition from a place in Sussex, praying for a repeal of the malt tax. Major BEAUCLERK said it had been :lit intention to submit to the house a motion upon this subject ; Is the noble lord, the member for Buckinghamshire, had alread:i done so, he (Major B.) would not press his, but support that of hi: noble friend. E T .;SINESS OF THE HOUSE. The Standing Zornmittce then appointed. The CH.ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that on Mon. days, Wednesdays, and Fridays, orders of the day should take prece. dense of notices of motion. In reply to an observation from an hon. member, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that no per son was more sensible than himself of the obligation the house was under to those private members who undertook the conduct of public bills. He had no objection to these members having precedence on Wednesday.— ( Hear.) Mr. HUME complained that the arrangement contemplated would Interfere with other business ; he had given notices of motions for two Wednesdays. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained. Mr. EWART said it was his intention to move that no business should be commenced after eleven o'clock at night. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said before any understanding was come to upon that point, it was necessary to make some arrangement as to their.hour of meeting. For many reasons he thought it advisable not to revert to the course pursued during the last Session of Parliament, and meet either at four or five.—(Hear.) It would be very inconvenient for the Speaker to come down at twelve, and sit till three, and return at four. There were many election committees and they must be held at places not immediately connected with the house, and therefore L.vas not likely that the morning sittings would be attended by ina..iy mem: ers. He would propose that the house should sit each day at four o'clock, and whenever a pressure of business re quired it the Speaker would sit at three o'clock.—(Hear.) After a few words from Mr. WILKES, Mr. HUME suggested the propriety of the house adjourning at a certain hour, and he thought twelve would be a proper hour. The hon. member for Dublin was about to introduce a specific motion upon this subject, but he rather thought that should be left to the discretion of the house. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it would be better to make that the subject of a specific motion. As there were many new members, he thought they should get a fortnight's experience of late hours.—( Ilea - , and a laugh.) Mr. PRYME said the old members had had sufficient experience of late hours without inflicting them upon the new members. He suggested that three o'clock wuu'd be a better hour for meeting than four.—(Cries of " No, no.") Mr. EWA RT again suggested that no business Should be proceeded with after 11 o'clock. Mr. HUME, w,th reference to the Committee upon Acts of Parlia. went, said that there was in the estimates under this head two or three hundred pounds—now the Committee was a mere form, as he be lieved it never met, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if the corn. mittee never met the expense might be spared, but he thought it had better be left to the discretion of the house. Mr. LITTLETW: thought it would be desirable to keep the matter under the control of the house. Mr.C. W. WYNN said, that this committee had been found very useful—it was cclistituteit in consequence. of the expiration of cer tain Acts of Par'Lment without the knowledge of the house, from whence great inconvenic,ice had arisen. Sir J. W ROM:St. - EY hoped the Government would follow up their professions of economy ant retrenchment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought that they had better appoint a Committee to consider the subject. Mr. HUME suggested that such a committee should not be com posed solely of the gentlemen of the Treasury bench. He would propose that some gentlemen of the other party should be joined with it. The Chancellor of the Fx chequer agreed with the suggestion, and proposed the names of Mr. Hume, Mr. Littleton, and others which were agreed to. Mr. HUME concluded the conversation, by observing that he should give the necessary instr uct ions to-morrow. Sir R. PEEL gave notice that no petitions for private bills could be received after Friday, the lath of March. Sir J. GRAHAM cave notice of a motion to bring in a Bill for the voluntary enlistment of seamen, and also for the better regulation of the merchant service. ADDRESS TO HIS MAJESTY. Mr. ROBINSON they rose and said, the interval which has elapsed since the adjournment of the debate of last night has afforded me an op. portunity in common wit li many other members of this house of look ing over the addre• s and t he amendment moved by the noble lord, the member for Yorkshire, and in the few observations I shall make on this important occasion, I shall divest my mind of every consideration except that which I sh:111 deem connected with the public welfare. Sir, I am bound to say that I am not satisfied with the speech which has bean delivered from the throne, because that speech, independent of its partaking of that vagueness which has usually characterised all King's speeches, does, in my opinion, subject itself to objections from a Reformer. The one to which I shall particularly advert is its utter silence on the report of the municipal Corporation enquiry, and the ground on which that Commission was originally granted. I believe that the country does attach great importance to this subject, and I think that the right honourable baronet at the head of his Majesty's Government, in the course of that able, eloquent, and manly appeal—(cheers from the Ministerial benches)—an appeal which, with confidence I assert, has by no means influenced my vote, yet has, I must now confess, made a great Impression on my mind with respect to the Address—has sup plied some of the deficiencies in his Majesty's Speech, and, there. fore, I think it right to say that that Address should be viewed in connection with the speech of the right hon. baronet. Now, Sir, I come to the consideration of matters which involve great and important interests. We certainly are arrived at a great and im portant crisis of our country's fate—subjects of vast interest to the future peace and tranquillity of t his nation. I would fain hope that hommembers 'would on this occasion abandon the course adopted on ordinary ones, and allow no consideration to influence them in their actions, unless those which will be conducive to the peace, prosperity, and welfare of this country.— (Cheers.) Sir, if I thought that in concurring in the address, and in opposing the amendment, I thereby directly or impliedly expressed confidence in Ministers which I really do not feel, —(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the opposition)—l would not vote as I intend upon this question. When I look to the composition of the government, without making—as I should be sorry to make—any invidious or personal remarks upon any of its members, and judging solely from their former acts, and not to their present professions, I confess I am not inclined to support the men now at the head of the government. But lam willing, notwithstanding, to give them a fair trial, which they demand. I will endeavour to pursue that course which I have followed with regard to former governments, of not giving them a factious opposition, but fairly and deliberately to weigh their acts and measures under existing circumstances. I differ widely from the course of politics which the members of the Government have hitherto pursued ; but when I look to their actions, since they last came into power— what do I fled ? I find, on the return of the right hon. baronet from Italy, when he took upon himself the government of this country, that the first act of his official existence was not in accordance with his principles, as an anti-reformer—principles which he naturally cherished, but in ac cordance with the spirit of that great measure.—(Cheers.) His first act, however, was an overture to the noble Lord the mem ber for Lancashire, which I therefore take to be an evidence of his disposition to act honestly by the country, and in accordance with the public opinion. Now I also ask myself, when I am called upon to vote for the amendment of the noble lord, the member for Devonshire—l necessarily must ask myself—what is the real object of his amendment.—(Hear.) He himself does not conceal its real tendency—(Hear, hear)—it is not proposed with a view to the advantage of the country, but in order that it may tend to the dissolution of the existing- Government. I allude to the evL nt of his Majesty having, in the exercise of his un doubted prerogative, pr occeded to dismiss the administration of Lord Mel. bourne. No one admits the exercise of this prerogative more readily than I do,and I believe his Majesty incapable of exercising it but to promote the welfare of his people ; but will any one in this assembly deny the right of this house to sit in judgment on the special exercise of that prerogative, so far as to reject the measures of any administration ? Now I cannot join in an object of that kind, and I assure the house that this feeling is not only consistent with my former conduct, but with the professions I made to my constituents both before and after my elec ion --(hear, hear, and cheers)—for I declared on the hustings on the day of nomination, before I had a single vote, that if an attempt was made to subvert the present Administration before they had an opportunity of developing their measures of Reform, I would not join in that attempt —(Cheers.) Whether my constituents will condemn me for this line of conduct remains to be seen, but it was their duty to have told me, on hearing my determination, they expected me to be henceforward what I never had been, a party man, but no such in. timation was made to me, and therefore I entered the house as I have done before—entirely independent of any party.—(Great cheering.) But I asked myself—and it certainly is the duty of every man to ask himself, and well to consider before he comes to the vote this night, what in all probability must be the consequence of subverting the present Government in the very infancy of its exist ence?—(Hear, hear.) Though I am not at all disposed to deny that there exists amongst those who are opposed to that Govern. went—men of eminent talents, influence, and weight in the country, yet I am bold to say that there also exists amongst the party com prising the opposition such elements of discord and disunion as would render it morally impossible, in the event of the subversion of the present ministry, for them to construct a new government capable of carrying on the business of the country.—(Loud cheers from the ministerial benches.) If that be true, and I have stated it in the face of those gentlemen who may deny it if they can, I ask whether or no it is not perfectly consistent for me to support the present Government— (Cheers from the Ministerial side)—to this ex tent, and this only, to give them an opportunity to bring forward and embody those specific measures and different branches of Reform which the right honourable baronet last night stated himself willing to give.—(Hear, hear.) That is a highly important point gained to the country, because if the right hon. baronet is allowed the opportunity of laying on the table of the house those measures, that party with which he is identified, and the present Government will be committed to the principles of Reform as far as they are inclined to go.—(Hear, hear.) Why, if the effect of such a course of conduct would be to eparate men of equal value, if to obviate that consequence were the only one point gained, it would be sufficient to induce me to give my opposition to the amendment proposed by the noble THE SUN S LONDON, TinTILSDAY, PEI3II,UARY 20, 1838. lord (Morpeth.) But I would beg to ask hon. gentlemen opposite, are not the circumstances of the times entirely altered ? Formerly, when they were in the possession of power, and in the full enjoS • ttient of that patronage that power is so well known to tone r upon them, it was possible for them, and easy to Maintain their position in defiance of public opinion. But in the present circumstances of the country, since the carrying of the Reform Bill, I defy this, or any other Government, to maintain their position in defiance of the public opinion of the country.—( Hear, from the minis terial side.) Therefore, it is, that I am prepared to give the present administration that fair trial they desire—that qualified sup port which 1 think they are entitled to from the representation of a Reformed constituency.—(Cheers from the same side.) I know that there is a large and influential party returned to this house by constituencies determined to enforce the principles of the Reform Bill, and to Compel whateverparty may hold the reins of Government to a !opt those measures which they think are in accordance with the spirit of, and eonseqUent upon, the Reform Bill ; or otherwise eject the existing Administration, whatever it may be, from the possession of office.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Then a question naturally arises, whether Government can maintain its position until they are able to bring forward those measures they are desirous to have effected. A course, I must say, has been taken by hon. gentlemen around me on the present occasion, that in a great degree tends to embarrass the question immediately be fore the house.—(Hear, hear.) It is taken as a positive fact, that all the constituencies by which gentlemen are returned to this house are of one way of thinking—(Hear, hear)—and it is also said that the qualified support which I am prepared to give to the present administration, is in opposition to the principles which, to ensure my return, I professed on the hustingt— (Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) I say that such a statement is injurious to the character of my constituents, who are decided Reformers and Anti-Minis terial i 4 tse--(Hear, hear.) It could not be denied but that there were - ,many constituencies who would give the present Government trial. Ido not say that they are the majority of constituencie ......—(Cheers from the opposition.) My con stituents I am will:• —ag to admit are Reforiners,—(Continued cheers.) —but I do -m .• y a great majority of them arc anxious to give the present !over-.intent a trial; and suppose even that the majority of my consti .uents did not altogether think eo, still I cannot altogether recognize that Parliamentary doctrine, which, while it makes it imperative to obey the wishes of the majority,stillnot to overlook the opinions of themi nority when they agree with my own, (Cheers from the Ministerialside.) Let us but look at the returns of' the elections, and could any gentleman for a minute doubt but there is a strong feeling in the country to give the present Government a trial ?—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) And so even was the balance of opinion that in farness it could not be denied. Ido not mean to include the counties, but let us look to the cities and boroughs.--(Cheers fiem the Odpos:Sion ) What di 4 Liverpool do! Were not the noble lord who moved the address, and his right hon. Mend, both professing contrary principles? In Bristol the same doubt took place, and even in Halifax the contest was so close, in the balance of opinion, that the election was gained by a majority of one. Therefore it was not quite f air to say, that the country were against giving the present Government a trial, though that was de nied by the noble Lord, the member for Devonslere ; but if the noble lord and his party come into office, they would have difficulties to con tend with which they were blind to; and I do say that the bond of union which now unites the Opposition would be dissolved, and the elements of strife and discord would embarrass any new Ministry, and all useful and practical measures would be retarded. It is rather an ungracious topic for a Reformer to talk of placing confi dence in the new Administration ; but I think, at least, before they are condemned, that a fair trial should be alluded them. But I never could despise those difficulties, nor am I able to - deal with them as others, who think that they might have been easily overcome, Now, as it was stated last night by the right honourable baronet, one of the chief advantages of the pre sent Government is that it will facilitate the progress of Reform with the concurrence of the other house. Some gentlemen indulged in a sneer at my professions of Reform---(Cheers from the Opposition)—overlook ing the fact that I have supported all Reform measures; but my wish is to see Reform pursued steadily and safely with the concurrence of all parties, instead of being forced and carried by violent means. I believe the right hon. baronet appealed to his constituents upon his taking office, for which I am not disposed to blame him, and for which reason alone I cannot pre fer the Amendment to the Address, bec arse the Amendment takes a decided course of disapprobation—it states that the dissolution was unnecessary. I am free to state that if the change of ministry was justiflable--and I dont offer any opinion upon that now, because we are fully to discuss that point hereafter — but I broadly laid down this proposition, that if the change of ministry was necessary, the dissolution of Parliament was necessary, anti the in evitable consequence of that change.—(Hear.) Now have the results of the elections benefitted the right hon. baronet ? I give the right hon. baronet credit for being sufficiently sagacious in views—for having during his long life of official experience, ascertained that his position at the present time is very different indeed from what it was when I had the lienour of sit' ing in the house with him, he being one of the ministers of the Crown. I tenth.. right hen. hart. the re sult of the late election has proved two things—it has proved the country is sincere and determined in having those reforms which the course of time has rendered necessary in the different institutions of the e ,unt ry they are determined to have them ; and we are told that the sense of the country solemnly speaking is directly opposed to those rash measures of innovation—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side)—which a certain party in this house—(Hear, hear, hear)—endeavoured to force upon the late Government, and which in my opinion mainly led to the suppression of that Government—;Cheers from the Ministerial side.) Sir, it is attempted to be said out of doors, (I don't know whether it has been put forward in this house,) that this is a question of reform or no reform—(Heer, hear)—and that therefore it is the duty of every man who has professed himself a Reformer by every means in his power to turn out the present Government, in consequence of their known antipathy to Reform.—(Hear, hear.) If I thought so, nobody would more readily join than myself in subverting the present Government ; but as I do not ci noider the question in that point of view, I would much rather support a motion for their removal, then endeavour to subvert them by throwing every obstacle in their way. That, Sir, I consider to be by far the more manly course, because whatever the terms of the amend. ment may be, the object evidently is to subvert the government. The reason why I consider that it is nut a question of reform or no reform is, that that has been decided by the reform bill itself, whice as the right hon. baronet has justly observed, bas placed that degree of power in the hands of the constituency of the United Kingdom that renders it certain, into whose hands the Governmen tfalls, teat no abuse whatever can take plsce.---(Hear, hear) I admit that there are some abuses, some real and aleged abuses, but upon that point great differences of opinion exist between hon. membe:s, and it is, therefore, a question of reasonable discusssion of time and degree. But what may be pronounced absolute abuses are those which exist in the English and Irish Church, the abuses in the system of corpo rations—that those are abuses must be conceded by the present Govern ment, or their successors.—(Loud cheers.) It would be premature for me now to enter into any detail upon those subjects at the present mo ment. The sole object I have in obtruding myself is to justify the vote I shall give, and I think it 'may be understood from what I have stated, that the simple ground upon which !shall give my vote in favour of the address and against the amendm nt, is that looking at the peculiar ;difficulties of the country with reference to the state of parties which are so nicely balanced, that I hardly know how any Government can conduct the affairs of the country, if party men - attempt to press their principles to the utmost, refusing therefore to give any reasonable concession.—(Loud cries of hear, hear.) — Are we, now that we are about to enter into another session of parlia ment, to occupy the whole of our time in mere strife of parties ? Let the question as to the stability of the government be brought before the house by a tangible motion—(Loud cheers from the ministerial benches)—then we will see what their professions are; and then if they do not satisfy us, I shall be most willing to join any one in a vote of dis approbation of their conduct, and pray his Majesty for their dismissal. The right hon. baronet, in his speech of last night, which was characte rized with his usual ability, stated most distinctly that he did not conceal from himself the difficult situation in which he was placedby the acceptance of office under the peculiar circumstances which existed. I, for one, can assure the right honourable gentleman, that any prejudices which I may have towards him will not induce me to shut my eyes to the great ser vices which in former times he rendered to the country—(Great cheer. ing from the Ministerial benches)—or to the conduct, the open con duct which he has invariably pursued. He has made it so clear that he has throughout the present circumstances been actuated by public duty alone, that I for one think that it would be harsh to him— harsh to the Government, and most disrespectful to the Crown, if we were to attempt to overwhelm him at the present moment without a trial. I wish, although it is scarcely necessary. to state, that though assenting to the address, I am prepared and will exercise a strict vigi lance and superintending control over all the acts of the Government. It must be recollected by every gentleman present, that the power is still in our own hands.—(Hear, and loud cheering.) We can move an Amendment to every one of the propositions of the honour able baronet ; and in the present state of parties, I will venture to say that not one of the measures of the present Government, but will undergo a full and searching inquiry. —(Hear, hear.) With respect to the charge made against the Government, that in the course they are now pursuing they are acting inconsistently with their former conduct, I shall not enter upon that subject. The right hon. bart. is well able to defend himself and the Government from that charge. —but I shall never concur in the opinion, that because he and those who act with him did, under other circumstances, think it right to oppose reform, they should now be branded as apostates, if they brought forward reforming measures.—(Hear, from the Ministerial side.) Is it not part of our constitutional doctrine that the Ministers of the Crown of a country where a certain degree of freedom exists must be influenced in some degree by public opinion ; and, therefore, whatever the private opinions of the right hon. baronet may be on certain subjects, as for instance, on the question of Catholic emancipation, and the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts; and although it is admitted he would not have conceded these measures if it depended on his personal will, there is nothing inconsistent with hischaracter, if he was disposed to bring these questions forward in defiance of public opinion. Sir, lam mainly influenced in this course by the apprehension that if the present go vernment fails, there is no probability, in the present state of parties, of forming another government with any appearance of advantage to the country—(Loud cries of "Hear," from the ministerial side.) The right hon. Baronet in his speech of last night amused the house and instructed the ccuntry by reading some passages from a letter of the honourable and learned member for Dublin.--) Hear .) I suppose, however, that all the hon. and learned member's obser vations upon his former opponents are forgotten now. But the honourable and learned member is too candid not to admit that they are only forgotten now to be revived when an opportunity. occurs—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—and that op portunity will be the moment the present Government is re jected—the moment his present friends are re-instated, and the moment they oppose his wishes.—(llear, hear, hear.) It is clear, that looking at the condition in which the country is placed, seeing what our constituents have a .right to expect —(Loud cries of " Order")—that we should look with jea lousy at the measures of Government, and I beg to state my inten tion of giving the address my support. The amendment of the noble lord amounts to nothing—it embodies nothing which iS not em bodied in the answer to the address, with the single exception of the disapprobation of the house at the dissolution of the late Govern ment—(hear, hear)--and although I sun no adherent of the Mi nistry, and although I look at their conduct with jealousy, I shall give them a fair and honourable trial, and they shall receive that support from me which many gentlemen on the hustings promised them.—(Cries of " Order.") I shall conclude by observing I should be ashamed if I suffered my conduct on this trying occasion to be influenced by that pressure from without, which has been created by clamour, and carried to an extent recently, that is highly disgraceful, and which no man therefore should yield to, without its reflecting the greatest possible discredit upon him.—(hear, hear.) — Why, Sir, we have been all branded by the press with the name of traitors.—(Hear.) I will not enter further on the subject now. I have vin dicated myself before my constituents and the country. In the tenor of my life I have never been a factious supporter of any Ministry—l have never been the servile tool of any Administration—l have never been guilty of expressing implicit confidence in men one day, and the next day giving them the strongest opposition. I consider it the duty of every member to exercise a cautious control over every government, but, with the views 1 entertain, I feel bound, on the present motion, to give my support to His Majesty's Government, and to vote for the address. Mr. WARD rose and said—l differ so entirely from the hon. gent.who lastaddressed the House, both in the language I intend to pursue and the motives which I conceive ought to influence tt e conduct of every man who professes himself a reformer, that I cannot help obtruding myself for a few moments upon the attention of the house. My inducement to do so is stronger in consequence of th echarge of factious opposition, which, though not specifically brought forward by the right hon. baronet .Peel) last night, was used as applicable to all who refuse to support the present Govrrnment, as from the nature and extent of She reforms they were prepared to carry into effect, they , conSiderfd th?mselves fully entitled to, the support'or all gongt and conscientious , men. --(Sir Robert Peel seemed to deny that he used the words.)—l must have misapprehended the right honourable Bart., if he had not used the words " factious opposition" in his speech—a speech I listened to with de light, though not conviction. I never saw Conservatism dressed out in more fascinating colours—l never saw the difference between those who sit on this and those who sit on the other side of the house, more artfully and skilfully disguised. I will, however, en deavour to bring back the Mile to the real grOUtids on which we ought tb stand, and to show the points on *bleb we essentially differ. And 1 hope to be able to prove that vie do ndt offlir any factious opposition, and that we are not animated by any pt rsoniii Nelings against the GoVernment, tont Unit we are oPpdied to them from a regard to those prihoiplet which tee conscientiously entertain, and in which I, for one at least, cannot hope that at any time, or under any circumstances, the right honourable baronet will be induced to concur. The principles upon which the two parties essentially differ are those :—ln the first place we differ as to the power of the Legislature to deal with Corporate property. As to the right of dissenteril to the Universities, the right hon. baronet says he has no right to exercise any power on the privileges of the Universities, in order to pave the way for the admission of dissenters.—(Hear.) He ad mits the practical grievances to which they are at present exposed, and he is prepared to remedy those grievances ; but he does not recog nise the great principle from which this remedy flows ; he does not recognize the great principle of religious belief; he does not re. cognise the great privilege of any free access whatever being given to the honours of the country without any impediment or reserve. He gives them, to a certain extent, a variety, I admit, but no more. Now, Sir, to come to the second point on which I differ from the right hon. baronet, it is with regard to the municipal corporations' commission. Nothing can be fairer than what the Right Hon. Baronet says on that subject—he admits its claim to importance, but he wishes to have the report before he pledges himself to any specific measure. I maintain, however, that the Right Hon. Baronet was bound, in a speech from the throne to state the principles upon which the government would proceed when that report was received.—( Hear, hear.) I mean the great principles on which its responsibility rested, and its mode of operation was to be conducted. I must confess I could learn nothing of this from the speech of the right hon. bart. last night. Now it is notorious that the interests of his party will not induce the Right Hon. Baronet to extend popular rights in the close corporations. I hope that these bodies will be placed upon a basis which will be useful to the country, but we look in vain for such an assurance in the Speech from the throne—l ask this question' of the members upon the Treasury benches, I will not say the Representatives of a county, but of any populous town ?—(Cheers.) I hold, Sir, that Corporations upon their present system are the strong holds of the Conservative party, and it is not in human nature that they should endeavour to destroy them. The members who sit behind the right hon. baronet are almost exclu sively the representatives of close boroughs, and I ask whether the noble lord, the member for Norwich would have dared, to any open consti tuency, to make his celebrated declaration against reform—(cheers from the opposition, and from lord Stormont, " I never said it.") — I ask whether in any single popular constituency the noble lord would have ventured to express his hatred even of the name of Reform? (Lord Stormont repeated his denial.) Well, then, I must say never was there an unfortunate member of this house so foully belied or so badly treated—(Loud cheers from the opposition)—and I wonder really under the peculiar circumstances in which the Noble Lord was himself placed, and on which the government of which he was a member was situated, that he did not feel himself called upon to deny a report so injurious to both. The report was given in ail its details. The Noble Lord was stated to have expressed his horror even of the name of Reform ;—he was stated to have said that there was something in the word itself to which he had a peculiar aversion. I believe in no other part of the empire would such a speech have been made. The right hon. baronet now professed himself a Reformer, and would en deavour to persuade us that he is as full and sincere a reformer as any gentleman upon this side of the house,—(Cries of " Hear, hear,)—but I cannot think that if he were so he could support the gentlemen in the conservative interest, who intend falling back on those very bodies which are the strong-holds of Toryism in this country. That was the second point of difference between the parties. The honourable gentleman then went on to observe that the third ques tion was that of ecclesiastical reform, more particularly in Ireland. With his strong feelings on that subject he thought he could not be justly accused of a factious opposition to the Government if he withheld from it his support—(hear, hear, hear) —especially when one of its members, in his address to his own constituents, said he had no new professions to make on this subject, and that he could not consent to any alienation of church property.—(Great cheering from the mini sterial side.) With his feelings, he repeated, on that subject, he trusted that those who thought with him, and he believed they were not few in numbers (hear, hear, from the opposition)— he trusted it was impossible to assure them of a factious opposition to the Government, because they withheld their support—(Hear, hear, from Sir Robert Peel.) The right honourable baronet admitted , that there was a necessity for the distribution of Church property, and no honest reformer could be dissatisfied with such a measure, involving the equalization of the bishoprics— the enforcing of residence—and the provision of a competent remu. neration for the working clergy—such a measure would doubtless satisfy the Reformers in England; but if they crossed the Irish Channel what would re-distribution effect there? It was impossible by nicely balancing the revenues of the Irish Church, to render the people insensible to the burdens they bore, or to reconcile them to their further continuance. For these reasons he was induced to withhold his support from the Address to the Crown. He regretted that the opinions and views of the right hon. baronet were not more explicitly declared. An honest expression of opinion was the best course for all public men. There was in the Amendment a distinct expression of the opinion of the gentlemen on his side of the house in favour of a large extension of popular rights, and he wished sincerely that other points to which he alluded had been as distinctly marked. The right hon. baronet had said, —suppose the Amendment had been carried and the Ministry displaced, who was to follow—who was to take the helm of affairs? And he went cri to point out the differences of opinion and the incongruities amongst them on those benches ; but he would ask whether the same inconsistencies and heterogeneous principles did not pre vail to a greater extent on that side of the house ?—(Loud cheers.) The hon. member for Lincoln (Colonel Sibthorpe) says 4 • No, no." What greater inconsistency, he (Mr. W.) would ask, can be exhibited on this side of the house than to see gentlemen of such opposite principles acting together as the gallant colonel and the hon. bart., the member for Cumberland? (Sir James Graham).—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) What greater inconsistency can there be than to behold on the same side of the house the gallant colonel, who believes the present Government to be the most perfect Government that ever existed, and the right honourable baronet (Sir James Graham) who denounced it on the hustings in such violent and unmeasured terms ?—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.) Probably the right hon. ba. ronet, like the noble lord opposite (Stormont) would disavow the language attributed to them so generally, and even the use of which had never been contradicted by them—or probably the right hon. baronet intended to vote for the amendment o f the noble lord (Morpeth), and therefore his (Mr. Ward's) argument fell to the ground. He (Mr. W.) knew not but that the right hon. baronet at the head of his Majesty's Government reckoned amongst the supporters of-the address, the right hon. baronet, the member for Cumberland—because he (Sir J. Graham) probably is of opinion that so conscientious a reformer as the right hon. bart. (Sir R. Peel) will vote for his extension of the principles of reform—that by some ingenious persuasion he may extract from him the Septennial Act and Vote by Ballot.—(Cheers and laughter from the Opposition.) He (Mr. Ward), notwithstanding the taunting inquiries from the other side of the house as to who could be found corn. petent to compose a government to take place of the present Administration, believed that a Government could be easily pro cured, able and competent to take their place, and that would receive the support of the great majority of this house, and of the people of this country.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He believed that the last government possessed the confidence of the majority of the people of this country, if they had been allowed to meet Parliament as the present Administration had been enabled. But they were not permitted to have that fair trial that the right hon. baronet's government had received—they were not afforded that opportunity which the present government had received, of stating their intentions in a Speech from the Throne. If the right hon. baronet (Sir Robert Peel) had announced that it was his intention to effect a satisfactory settlement of the Irish tithe question, he (Mr. W.) would have been desirous to afford his government whatever support he (Mr. W.) could contribute. He was even now disposed to give him his warmest support, should the right honourable baronet state that such was his intention; but the speech from the throne, and the comments of the right hon. baronet on it, would not permit of such a hope. Another question was raised, which it was now useless to enlarge upon—he meant the collision of the two branches of the Legislature. The obvious consequences of ad vancing such a proposition, viz. to prevent such collision, was that any measure of Reform desired by the people should be proscribed by a majority of the House of Lords, and if not agreeable to them must be abandoned.—(Hear.) We hoped that the time would come when the house of lords would co operate with the commons in the advancement of such measures as would conciliate the feelings of the people. He was apprehensive that the present cabinet had no such materials in it.—(Loud cheers.) He would not trouble the house with anything further on the subject ; he had already stated the grounds upon which he would give his vote, which was uninfluenced by any motive, save a sense of duty.—(Hear, hear.) He, therefore, supported the amendment. And without attempting to interfere with the prerogative of the King, he thought the house ought to express the deep regret they felt at the dissolution of the late house of parliament—(Cheers) —a house which was pledged to so many measures of Reform, and which was so much in unison with the feelings of the people. He therefore gave his support to the amendment.—(The hon. member sat down amidst loud cheers.) Lord STORMONT rose, and was for some time inaudible in the Gal. lery. The first sentence we heard was, that he admitted he used the words imputed to him by the hon. member for St. Albans, of saying that he hated the word Reform.—(Loud cheers from the opposition.) When he made use of the words that he hated reform, he did so as it was used, to mean the destruction of all the valuable insti tutions of the country.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") If it was ap. plied to improve our Institutions, the case would be dlfferent..--(Loud cheers.)—But as it was now real, he was its most violent opponent. He had always been ready to avow his real sentiments, and would always be ready to defend his public conduct, and he trusted that he would hear no more of such accusations. The hon, members opposite had frequently alluded to close corporations; but he would ask them to recollect that one of those alluded to contained upwards of 4,000 electors, and that they voted for the sheriffs, the aldermen, and the town council.—(Hear.) After that, the hon. members opposite would not state that all those members who sit for the corporations are the representatives of close burghs. Captain BERKELEY stated that he had been brought up a consti. tutional Whig, and had ever ranged himself under the banner of " measures, not men." Under that banner he would continue, and would support the present Government as long as their measures were calculated for the good of the country : and on the same principle he would say that the gentlemen opposite were about to give a factious vote by supporting the Amendment.—(Hear, from the Treasury Bench.) He maintained that nothing like faction could be saddled on those who should vote for the amendment, because they had heard from the right honourable baronet that even should that amendment be carried, the Government would not be upset. He should give his vote honestly, fearlessly, and conscientiously. He did not think that he should be considered as a factious man in giving the vote he intended, and he would now take the liberty of stating why he should give that vote. In the first place it had been stated by a noble lord, who was then sitting on the ministerial side of the house, out of doors, that he had no confidence in the present government. By the vote he (Captain B.) should give, he might be meant to express very nearly the same opinion, that he had no confidence in the present Government, and the reason he said he had no confidence in the present Government was, that when he heard the talent, and admired the delivery of the speech which the right honourable baronet had made last night, he had heard no one sin gle thing that would convince him (Captain B.) that there was to be a thorough change in the right hon. baronet's line of policy. The right hon. baronet had asked whether one great evil that went to upset the late Government of which Lord Grey was at the head, was not the pressure from without ? He (Capt. B) would ask, could any man sitting in that house believe that the pressure from without would not tend still stronger to upset the present Go.. vernment of the right honourable baronet ? (Hear, hear, hear.) They were not pledging themselves in any way to deviate from any thing they had either said, or had done, within or without the walls of the house, and when they came to the single question of consistency or no consistency, he did not ace why gentlemen of different political opinions should not come to the same conclusion. — (Hear, hear.) With respect to the foreign policy, he recollected when the subject was touched upon in that house, a phalanx was opposed agalpst the side he ok : but he should like to ask if the foreign policy . .„ . which was to maintain „the. peace and prosperity of Europe was to be preservers licit! , it hippened,thit ]ionC , arlps ,wap now in Spain. —(Hear, hear). With respect to tit ::eleaturi s i that were proposed, by the present government, he would say that so ,e - ; ?t , the right hon. baronet brought forward measures calculated to carry into effect good and beneficial reforms, calculated to meet the wishes of the people, he would support him, but he must take the liberty of saying with regard to the measures of reform that he had heard it was the intention of ministers to bring forward, they would not satisfy him. With respect to the reform that was intended to take place in the corpotation rtiondtkily df tiniversitiee, the people were left to the mere) , of those whb were at the head of those places.—(Hear, hear.) The boon offered by the present minister could hardly be Balled reform at all, they expected more, and must and would have U.—(l-tear; hear, and great cheering.) With respect to the Irish Church reforirii he distinctly and avowedly stated that in his opinion there was nothing in the King's Speech that would lead any person to . suppose that reform was intended. On the whole, he had no confidence in the Reforms that were intended to be brought forward by his Majesty's pre. sent Government, he should therefore vote for the amendment of the noble lord, more particularly as there was nothing in that amendment, which was violent, or at all trenched upon the prerogative of the Crown ; he considered it as an amendment which every man who wished well to his country could consistently support.—(Loud cheers.) Several m-mbers then rose together, but, there being loud cries for Lord STANLEY, he proceeded to address the house as follows : Sir, if I am to believe with the hon. Gentleman who has now sat down, and who has done me the honour of referring to some expressions of mine, which fell from me out of this House, that in consenting to the address which has been moved to his Majesty, in answer to his gracious speech from the Throne, and in offering an opposition to the amendment of my noble friend opposite, I shall be expressing a political opinion different from my noble friend, or expressing a confidence (which I must confess I cannot feel) in the Government, I might feel hesitation in the course which I shall pursue on this occasion. But in the few remarks which I shall offer to the House, I wish to state broadly and plainly what is the ground, and I trust it will be an intelligible one,—(Cries of " Hear, hear,)—upon which I have come to the decision which I have done, to vote for the address. Sir, in looking at the present state of parties in the political world, as an honest man, and professing honest reform principles, I ft el that I am obliged to give my vote against the amendment of my noble friend. Sir, I speak not my own sentiments aline, but those of a body of gentlemen in this heuse neither ins'ernificant in point of standing, of intelligence, or of weight in the country, who are bent upon the determination by the most rational means, to get measures of reform, and who are determined to effect those means through no paltry course of proceeding, hut by that course which in our judgment we think may be conducive to the end which we have in view. Sir, in entering into the subject of the amendment, I must, in the first place, pay a tri bute, which I do with feelings of unmingled pleasure, to the very able, the intelligent, the gentlemanly, and the perfect consti tutional manner in which the amendment was introduced by my noble friend.—(Great cheering from both sides of the house.) — I was not surprised at it, because I was perfectly aware that the exercise of his own judgment would lead him not to depart from those feelings which I am proud and happy to say we have in common. I do not dif fer from my noble friend in his opinions as to the constitutional rights and privileges of this house. I do not differ with him as to its right to take into its cognizance the dissolution of the late Parliament, now that the present Government are most strictly and truly responsible for that, as well as for the dismissal of the late Government. Neither do I differ from the doctrine laid down by him that it is within the competency and privileges of the house to express its opinion, and pass its judgment on those points, and to address the Sovereign relative to the exercise of his most undoubted prerogative, the dismissal of any Government.—(Loud cheering.) Sir, I agree farther with my noble friend—l agree with him in the comments which he has felt it his duty to pass on the course of proceeding to which I am unwilling to apply any terms stronger than those selected by my noble friend—(Hear, hear)—l mean the concentration, the extraordinary concentration of power for a consi derable time in the hands of one individual upon the dissolution of the late Administration. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") I agree also with my Noble Friend, that the fact of no evil or abuse having arisen is no justification of such a proceeding. I admit the high talents of the Duke of W ellington, but I consider that such a proceeding, if unnoticed by the representatives of the people is a precedent dangerous to the liberties of the country.—(Loud and continued cheers from the Opposition.) I do not now wish, looking at she circumstances ill which the country is at the present tune placed, to make any further observations upon the steps that were then taken, further than, in the name of the House of Commons, to protest against such an assumption of power in the hands of any individual, and to express my opinion that such a pre ce-lent should not be suffered to pass without comment or observa tion.—(Loud cheers.) Nay more, I beg to say that such a step ought not to have been taken without very strong and cogent reasons. The right hon. baronet has gone back for a precedent to the latter days of Queen Anne. Why, Sir, in what a position was the country then?— (Hear.) The Queen was on her death-bed—there was a disputed succes sion—a foreign pretender was threatening the country with a civil war. —(Hear, hear, hear.) The Ministers who surrounded her dying bed, with her consent, having for months and years before her death carried on a succession of secret intrigues with that pretender whose object was to desolate the country with civil war—those ministers imposed upon the Earl of Shrewsbury the three great offices of State, and that was not a dangerous precedent, but one which tended to consolidate the liberties of the peo. ple.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") I shall pass no opinion as to the extent to which a similar concentration of power may be justified on the present occasion, but I shall proceed to the consideration of the Amendment, and the observations which have been made upon it by my noble friend. There is one point that I am bound to admit. There is one point in the Amendment now intro duced, which, it it stood alone, I should have had great diffi culty in offering any opposition to, because I am bound to admit, after having carefully examined the terms of the Address, and the answer to it, and after having listened with anxious attention to the explanation of the right hon. baronet last night, the allusions to the municipal corporations, neither in the one or the other, are as full or as explicit as they ought to be.—(Vehement cheering from the opposition.) I admit that the right hon. baronet might have been prevented, from prudential considerations, from stating explicitly and fully what measures the government contemplated introducing; but I should deceive the right hon. baronet and the house, if I did not distinctly say that, with regard to the intaciple tut which this question will be dealt with, and here I coincide with my noble friend, the member for Yorkshire, thet the principle and spirit which will be applied to the corporations of England, is the same principle and the same spirit which was applied to the representation of the people in Scotland. I confess I do not see how my noble friend has coupled with these questions the subject of the emancipation of the negroes in the West Indies, or how he could bring it to bear as indicating the same spirit. I have referred to the system upon which the people of England have made up their minds, and on which I have no hesitation in saying my own mind is also completely made up.—(Hear, hear.) As to the principle of reform with which they wish to deal, I consider corporate rights, and the representation in Parlia ment to be alike a trust for the benefit of the public at large, and that it is only tinder a system of real and true represen tation, and real and true responsibility—(Great cheering)—that such can consist. I regret, therefore, that upon this subject his Majesty's Ministers have not been able to give a more explicit statement than they have done in the address. I do not undoubtedly go with the hon. gentleman who seconded the amendment, and insist that it is necessary that any system of corporate reform must, if con sistent, introduce all the details of the Scotch plan of 'reform.— (Hear, hear) I should be sorry to throw upon Parliament, such unnecessary trouble, nor do I think that any detailed exposition of the principle was required; but I will say that the people of England expect a real Reform of the Municipal Corporations.—(Hear, hear.) — Such a Reform must be based upon the system of representation, and I wait with anxiety and impatience for the measures which the Go vernment after a reasonable time, will bring forward, but from the discussion of any opinion upon the subject, I look with greater jealousy at it than I otherwise would. If then, this question stood alone, I should have felt a difficulty, entertaining the strong opinions I do, in common with many other members, I should have felt a difficulty in offering any opposition. But in the first place I am bound to say that the broad principle upon which I profess to act, namely, not to condemn the measures of the present Administration till I have seen what they are, and till I have an opportunity of judging of the nature of them, will not prevent me from giving my assent to this ad dress, since it does not necessarily contain a negative of every thing that has been omitted; neither does it pledge us to the details, or even to the principle of every measure. I say, then, that in his Majesty's Speech, several subjects are touched upon in a spirit of real and substantial reform and of sound and constitutional reform, though, by a singular fatality, the word " reform" does not occur in the whole Speech.—(Laughter.) I suppose this is a sacrifice to those who do not like the name—(Great laughter)—however, I will not quarrel with the sacrifice, I am satisfied to see promises held out in a spirit of well-considered and efficient means of improvement in our national institutions. I will wait with anxiety, but at the same time with patience and forbearance to see how those promises will be carried into effect. I hold that this line of conduct is in strict conformity with that declara tion which I made to the constituency of the large county which I have the honour to represent—that whilst I felt myself constrained from joining that administration—that whilst I felt myself called on to declare that I could not place confidence in the composition of that admininistration, —(Loud cheers from the opposition)—for I cannot put confidence in the present Ministry—(Continued cheers) —although I ought to be the last man who should quarrel with their composition, yet I still de. clared that I would take no step which would have a tendency to overthrow that government before a sufficient time had elapsed to see on what principles they would proceed. I can look at the amendment in no other way than as intended to overthrow the pre sent ministry, or else to obtain such a triumph as would greatly embarrass them. In either one case or the other, Ido not think it right to follow the course pursued by the other side of the house.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") lam quite sure that it is not consistent with my feelings, and I am sure that there are expressions in the amend. ment itself from which I differ. We are called on to give an opinion on the late dissolution of parliament. My noble friend the mem. ber for the West Riding of Yorkshire (lord Morpeth) says that this is a question of great and paramount importance, and he appeals to the dissolution of 1784, in which Mr. Pitt was reduced to the necessity of exacting a pledge from the House of Commons, when he declared the country, in the exercise of his Majesty's undoubted prerogative, had no right to express an opinion on the subject in this place. Now let me tell my noble friend—l do not know whether my noble friend is in the house or not, but 1 am sure I shall not say any thing of my noble friend which he would not like to hear—but let me tell my Noble Friend what was the occasion on which Mr. Pitt thought it necessary to demand the pledge from the house, and the necessity which then existed that such a dia. solution was called for. Whether it was necessary, or whe. ther it was prudent, I deem this is not the place to enter upon. But let them look to the circumstances in which the country was placed. Why, throughout the session, Mr. Pitt had been in a minority, the supplies had been stopped, and the Mutiny Bill was thrown out. Under these circumstances could anything be more necessary than that Mr. Pitt should have acted in the manner he had done. The measures of his government had been denounced by the House of Commons, that denunciation was staring him on their journals, and it surely was by no means strange that he should endeavour to coun teract it by a resolution of the house which he had summoned into ex istence. Here there is no necessity for an expression of our opinion on the late dissolution, and if it even were so, we have not the materials on which to give it. Are we acquainted with all the circumstances which led to it ? Do we know all the circumstances, and all the conversa tions' between his Majesty and the various members of Lord Melbourne's administration at the time of their accession to office, or all those which passed at the time of their removal. Sir, I will not now express any opinion upon the wisdom or prudence of the dissolution, whether it was necessary or unnecessary, but by objecting to any de cision of the question by way of an amendment to the ad dress. I object to the declaration contained in the amendment that the spirit or the principle of the reform bill is endangered by the dissolution of parliament, because, if it should be so, the reform bill itself must be of no avail. If that great charter should be in peril by an appeal to the constituent body of this kingdom, then, in deed, would I conceive it to be an almost useless and worthless measure. My respect for the Reform Bill, and for the electors of this country, will not allow me to doubt that any government can stem the tide of salutary reform, and I do think that no dissolution ca n prevent the extension of its spirit to all useful and necessary purposes. The member for St. Albans professed himself anxious—he declared his willingness not upon this occwion to prejudge the question of the Irish church. He intimated his in tention of bringing forward that question at another time, but not at present to discuss it, or partially to iotroduce it; but yet he saw. tions an grneridnient which goes the full length of his proposi. tions, and which decidea the question fully and plainly.—(Hear.) The hon. gentleman said he wighed it had been expressed a little more distinctly; why was it not ?—(Cries of °lie*, hear.") Might not the honourable gentleman suppose that, amongst thiik dispukti reform the church in Ireland, there might be some, and that no incinil/treble number, who might object to the same lengths as himself ?—(Hear, hear.) f r et the hon. gentleman has an op.. portunity of bringing forward—and he has given &lice of his intention to do so—a motion on the question, and calls on the houie to' ei'm flan the amendment which he admits to be ambiguous, that he may use it after' wards by saying the House of Commons confirmed his view of the case This is not (Waling fairly with so large and important a question. But the speech itself promises to us measures that will be submitted for our consideration, and upon which we shall they be able to decide whether they are substantial or not, to correct the abuses of the Church in irdatld and also in England. But the Amendment proposes to declare our featiltieSs to correct those abuses in the Church which disturb the peace of Society in Ire and. Now the right honourable baronet, last night pointed out (and I confess I should be glad to hear what is the ambiguity alleged) the abuses which, in his opinion, disturbed the peace of that country. Does the hon. gentleman refer to the means of paying the clergy or the the existence of the Protestant Establishment ? I take it he refers to the latter question, and not the tithe question, upon which the amendment promises reform. But let me remind him that it is the tythe system alone that can be said to disturb the peace of Ireland. Other questions may excite irritation in Ireland. —(Hear, hear, from the opposition.) Other questions may excite a difference of opinion and discontent in Ireland.—(Repeated cries of "hear" from the Opposition)—but it is the tithe question that is to be remedied. The existence of the Protestant Church is a separate question, and must be separately considered. I cannot give my consent to any measure that may have a tendency to overthrow, impair, or diminish that establishment.—(Cheers.) It is, then, upon the grounds I have now stated, that I feel myself compelled to withhold my assent from the amendment proposed by my noble friend the member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, because I do conceive that, in agreeing with it, I should appear not only to support that from which I dissent--(hear, hear) — not only because we should introduce a question which we have not now the means to discuss in the absence of neces;;SrY information, so as to enable us to form a correct judgment, but also because I believe the tendency of that motion would be to produce—under the whole of the present circumstances of parties, effects which I consider would be disastrous to the coun try and fatal to the cause of steady and constitutional Reform. I hold it to be of no slight importance on the present occasion that the house should wait to see the measures intended to be proposed by his Ma jesty's Government. I hold it that, as an individual, lam bound in honour and in justice to see what the nature of those projected measures is to be. Standing, therefore, in the position which I do, unconnected with the present administration, compelled, as I found myself to be, when applied to to become a member of it, to state that it would be inconsistent on my part to join them, constituted as that government was—standing in that position, and having no duty, consequently, to fulfil but that which every in. dependent member of parliament is bound to discharge—anxious as I am, for the promotion of Reform, and equally solicitous to pre vent destruction, I feel myself bound to give my assent to the Address that has been moved in reply to the King's speech, although shadowing out, as it does, sentiments that I should have desired to have seen more boldly put forward, but certainly much that meets with my entire approbation ; and at the same time opposing the amendment, which, while it advances many things that are most desirable, consists of much that is objectionable. (The noble lord, on resuming his seat was loudly cheered by the ministerialists.) Dr. LUSHINGTON trusted that the house would grant him their iudulgence, while he made some few observations on one or two points of great importance. When he heard the speech of the right honourable baronet, he was delighted to have heard him express his willingness to take the responsibility of the dismissal of the late Administration—an Administration which possessed the confidence of the country, the affairs of which they carried on to the satisfaction of the people. The departure of Lord Grey from the Cabinet was an event deeply to be lamented. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He would be the last man that would give a factious opposition to any Administration, still when he thought of the Government which had caused the retirement from the councils of his country of a nobleman so talented, so gifted, and whose inde fatigable industry and paternal love of his country was such as to carry into effect measures so great and conducive to the public good, he must say that such a Government was not entitled to the confidence of the house or of the country.—(Hear.) His noble friend said when he was retiring from office that he retired for ever, but he trusted that would not be the case, and hoped to God that he would return to the councils of the country, and restore peace and tranquillity to the empire. Notwithstanding the losses which the Administration had met with in Earl Grey and others, his Majesty was advised to reconstruct that Ad. ministration under the Premiership of Lord Melbourne. But what cause was assigned for the dissolution of that Administration? Why, that lord Althorp, in consequence of the death of his father, was removed from the House of Commons to the Upper House. Was not that event quite natural, and such as might be expected? Had, then, that administration been formed on the condition of the life of Earl Spencer ? Why should the administration have been broken up by the removal of Lord Althorp from the Chancellorship of the Exchequer ? It had been said by others, that the learned member for Dublin had the power to make and unmake administrations. But was the letter of that learned member to be made a pretext for breaking up administrations ? He would pay a humble tribute to the talents of that hon. and learned member, knowing the power and influence he had over his country. men, and he (Dr. L.) begged leave to assure the right hon. baronet that in his humble conviction, the honourable and learned member himself, if he had contemplated the consequences, would have been the last man to have written it. He (Dr. Lushington) was not satisfied with any of the reasons assigned by the right honourable baronet for the course he had pursued, and he did not think the right hon. baronet could ever discard that responsibility which he had so very honourably taken upon himself.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He would now say a few words on a question almost set at rest by his noble friend, who had spoken last; he meant the union of all the power of the State in the hands of the Duke of Wellington. His noble friend had protested against it, and had stated that it could not be made a precedent hereafter. Why would the house be content with any precedent which did not form a part of srs records ? Was there any man of talent, ability, or experience in that house who would not take upon himself to propose a resolution, to the extent that such an example should not hereafter form a precedent ? It had been attempted to justify the conduct of the Duke of Wellington, by quoting an example which it was stated had been set by the Earl of Shrews bury in former days. He denied that that was any prece dent, because a precedent meant this, that the same thing should be done under similar circumstances. He denied it was the same thing. He denied that the holding of the offices of Lord Chamberlain, Lord Treasurer, and Lord Lieut. of Ireland in the person of the Earl of Shrewsbury, was to be compared as a mat ter of fact, to the holding of the office of first Lord of the Treasury. In the case of the Earl of Shrewsbury there were other persons who were to share in the responsibility, but in the case of the Duke of Wellington, there was no one but the Lord Chancellor connected with him when he received the seals. — Now, as to the injury that was likely to occur from that state of things, he thought no:person, except a member of the present government, could say that the greatest injury might not have resulted.—(Hear.) Suppose that at the period in question news had been brought of the advance of Don Carlos into Spain, or that the next post had brought information of disturbances in India or Ireland, which party would have given attention to the imperious demands that such disturbances would require to be attended to? There would have been no person but the Duke of Welling ton who had taken the unprecedented and unconstitutional step of taking all the offices in his hands.—(Hear, hear.) Was there any man acquainted with the duties of the Secretary of State for the Colonial de partment who would tell him that with the office of First Lord of the Treasury, and Secretary of State for the Home Department, he could by possibility discharge the demands that might be made upon him in the arduous discharge of the duties of Secretary of State for the Co lonies ? With respect to the grounds on which he felt called upon to support the amendment of the noble lord, he could not take credit to himself, as some members had done, that he was not a party man. —(Cheers, : and cries of Hear.) He had ever been a party man —he had been so upon principle alone—and he expected to be so till the day of his death.—(Cheers.) He attached himself to that party which, he believed, professed the purest principles--he followed them, as far as he could, in matters of detail, and differed only in some essential principles. The principles he had set out with he felt called upon to maintain, believing them to be best calculated to lead to good government. It was said that a union had been made against the Government without just cause, and that those who opposed that Government had, without giving them a fair trial, combined together to subvert them, notwithstanding they had shown themselves anxious to promote reform, and that such a course was totally without precedent. He was sure that many hon. members recollected the union of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox for the express purpose of turning out the Sidmouth administration, and no person could deny that those two right hon. gentlemen, except upon this subject, agreed upon no one point of politics.— (Cries of" No, no.") He was surprised that any man could say no, and he took upon himself again to assert, that with the exception of the subject he had referred to, Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox agreed upon no other point.—(Cheers.) Nay, they had been opposed to each other for years. When persons of all opinions on the Reforming side found an adminis tration, whether Whig or Tory, not likely to carry on the government tor the benefit of the people, or advantage to the country, it was their duty, and it was quite justifiable for them to join, in order to drive them from their places.—(Hear, hear.) What he would ask, was the conduct of Lord Wharncliffe, one of the present Ministers, on the death of Mr. Perceval ?—(Hear, hear.) Did he not make a motion in that house, praying his Majesty to form a strong and united ministry, and did he not use these very words—" As to a fair ft.... 11, they were tried for years, and were found wanting."—( Great cheering.) And who voted with him—persons of all parties, Lord Wharncliffe at the head, and amongst others the present Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and many others then on the same side of the house. In speaking of the present administration, he knew not how to draw any distinction between them and that of 1803.—(Cheers.) It was upon principle that he said he could not trust the present Ministry. But it seems that the times have changed— all have become Reformers, whatever they had been before. He asked how, then, could he trust him who had for years had the power, when Reforms were as necessary and desirable as now, yet never took one step to remedy any one of the great abuses then crying aloud for removal? He wished to know whether the abuses of the church of England did not prevail to the same extent—whether the abuses of the municipal corporations were not as glaring in the year 1820 as at present ? The right hon. baronet had endeavoured to induce the house to pass a more favourable eye upon his ministry by reminding them that they were supported by the house of lords; and that was an ar gument why they should receive at their hands whatever measures they might bring forward. What was the meaning of that declaration! (Tremendous cheering from the Opposition.) Tell it to the country— (Cheers)—tell it to their constituents—(Continued applause)—tell them that hereafter it is not the people of England, it is not the House of Commons who are to stamp their approbation on the selection made by the Crown in the exercise of its prerogative. —(Great cheering from the Opposition, and cries of " Oh !" from the Ministerial benches.) Tell them that the administration which can corn. mind a majority in the House of Lords, which the House of Lords sane lions and supports, should be the government to rule the country, and that, despite the censure and disapprobation of the people—(Cheers)— despite the majority of the House of Commons—(Vehement cries of " No, no," from the ministerial benches)—he repeated despite the majority of the House of Commons, and a more frightful course than that he believed no Government could adopt.—(Cheers and "Oh, oh!") It was morally certain that the present Administration did not possess the confidence of the great majority of the electors of the people of Eng land.— (Cheering, followed by cries of" No.") It had not even the con fidence of his noble friend opposite, who deprecated the union that existed on his (Dr. L. 's) side of the house; but it had the confidence of those who were high Tories, and those alone—(Great cheering.) The pre sent contest was one of a most frightful nature, and was conducted from the commencement with a degree of secresy that boded nothing good. He (Dr. L.) had no conception of the dissolution that had taken place until the event itself had occurred—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He spoke of those he knew, of the great city of London, and of the wealth of that city.—(Hear, from Mr. A. Baring.) Perhaps the right honourable gentleman might think that he himself had got all the wealth of the City.—(Great laughter.) But he could speak of his own district, which was assessed at one million per annum, and had a poptilation of 370,000 souls, and if the hon. gentlemen on the other side wished for a further demonstration, let them look at Finsbury, and see what had been done there. He would ask, was there ever an instance of a dissolution in the time of an existing admini. titration that produced so little Wendt to that administration I,—(Cheers.) try venturing to This was an unexampled dissolution, without th.q min. 's • st ben, meet the existing Parliament. Mr. Pitt found a 17lajor.. H` " Yeadgiassinolved it, and told the house that it did not represent the country: ---s „ is favour and what was the result ? Why, a majority of about 126 in.. wa , to =-=fl-Twat, hear, hear.) If a dissolution were the proper' • . t i e s aledrtair ) the sense of the country, he contended the present diseoh. proved that It was not in favour of the present Ministry. The ~h 43‘ gentlemen opposite had tried every means to sw ell their ra2.1:4 they had tried what adulation would do with the noble ''' txv (Stanley.) Like one of the Weird Sisters they said t o him a scion of the house of Stanley, minister that shall b e, hail — acid cheering)—hear us in our extremities, favour us in our miseries, nd as . thou art powerful be merciful.—(Cheers and laught er. ) Oh, hard-hearted lord lord ! Oh flinty statesman! hast thou no pity up on us ?" But it of no use—the noble lord told them that lie had an utter wan confidence confidence in them ; unlike the person who was addres sed b y the We",- Sister, he would not be tempted to destruction—(Great cheering) : he would not be induced to swerve from the high and honourable principle' of his house—he would not become the associate and supporter of these; by struggling against whom he had obtained the approbation of, an charmed the country. The subject of tithes in Ireland was the en one upon which the noble lord differed from the ministry of Earl Girl i Ile should not have discharged his duty if he did not profess his* Aii of confidence in the present Administration, and his earnest wish and hen that the time would arrive when a Government, would possess the confidence of the people, and the majority of this house, without will!: he was sure that it was impossible to carry on the Government old rfn safety to the country, or with satisfaction to the House. He wou avail himself of the opportunity to answer some of t he observations which had been made by the honourable member for Lincoln. (Great laughter, with cries of " No, no," from the 0 In noticing that observation, it is certainly not my intention to hono ur the honourable gentleman—(No, no, hear from the Opposition) with any explanation from myself—(Hear, hear)—since, whatever might have been s lid elsewhere, he should not feel justified in at on the attention of the house, by entering on explanations foreign to its purpose. It had been told the house that he had done 01%, which a hundred persons had done before him—that lie had compar e ; the evils of an iii7cditary monarchy with those of an elective—an d h commented on the measures producing the late dissolution—a dissolution which he felt to have destroyed the confidence of the people—he had be e . ' accused of abusing her Majesty's confidence; but in answer to that De would himself publicly declare, anti would defy any one to produce _a! instanCe wherein he had made use of expipssions beyond those which is. duly as an ativccate compelled him to use; and ;:p defied any one top rodac.c: an instance in which he had allowed the public to know a single Ppositi.) cumstance which, in his capacity, he ought nt3t to have P e _ lisped. On the other halal, he defied them to instance an occasion .o,r, which he had ever abstained from speaking in a ma nner, however bold, which a sense of duty called for. dts? Mr. PRAED—The hon. and learned gentleman who j ust dat fo b° had, as it appeared to him (Mr. Praed), i n the beginning co lob speech forgotten himself, as he certainly in its close seemed t sight of the question before the house. (Hear, hear.) He c s , ceived that hon. and learned gentleman should not have en b 1 voured to justify the course he would take in that night's debate, fe a reference to his conduct as an advocate in the question in which late Queea Caroline was involved. In replying to the nhr.A vations which the honourable and learned Gentl emen had addre to the House, he should not notice t h e statements which in his cape' 7. of a member of Parliament he had addressed to his constituents elsewhe ; He (Mr. Praed) was a far less dist in g uished member of the bar, an d s should not take notice of the encomium bestowed by L or d Eldon 1 1 0 Dr. Lushington. He would not b e led awa y into expresEieb calculated to influence the passions of his constituents, Wh. to was too much the practice of hon. members. He would not enter 10 . 1 co ns iderations which would altogether be foreign to t he subjeet fore them.—(Hear, hear.) The learned gentleman had fe w as - t fault with the reasons assigned by the right honourable 10 9 _, for the course he had pursued, and it was to that part of his observa: tions that he (Mr. P..) intended calling the attention of the boa r ; The first reason assumed by Dr. Lushington, for the dissolution of tn; late Administration was the secession of the n o b le lord, the duke ei Richmond, and others. The second reason which had been assigned was the secession of Lord Althorp, and the third reason aodgor was the memorable letter written by the hon. and learned ' member., i , no t the city of Dublin. Now in these three pa r t i c ulars he had t fin no 'i stated the case. The secessions from the Cabinet , a nd the Yesign4r for Lord Althorp, induced Lord Grey to declare that it was impOilible.no him to carry on the Government, and the subse q uent seeil°ll-0 which took place, caused his Majesty to dismiss a ministry thatedest incomplete and inefficient. Without referring to the Pr ee re fo quoted by the right honourable baronet last night in he rence to the holding of several offices provisionally , BRfs reminded the house, that on the 12th of April, 1 , 0 0 Mr. Canning vacated his seat for the b o ro u g h of Newpo".,4 becoming Secretary of State, but it was not until the Ist of MaY 7 41 Mr. Sturges Bourne, Lord Dudley Stuart, and the prese nt Earl of itirtio took office.—(Hear.) The house would find that those to whern ti er formation of that Cabinet was entrusted, acted just in the same O n , as is now complained of in the case of the Duke of Wellingtlot (Hear, hear.) He would now remind honourable gen tlemen Gll the temporary arrangement which took place lasted 0011 to the return of the right honourable baronet from Italy. Its bed what the honourable and learned gentleman (Dr. Lushingtooloo stated, respecting the responsibility assumed by those a dl _ao, who recommended the dismissal of the Melbourne adm inistr ;„ he (Mr. P.) could not complain after the speech of the right fo b t h eyl net last night, in which he distinctly stated that he would not ;to from a single iota of whatever responsibility might a ttac h OG him. But then the dissolution of Parliament was spolie! . .o They had all heard a great deal of the merits of Parliamentary and when the last Parliament was sitting, thcy could not forget then, guage that was used respecting it. The right hon. baronet (Sir Pp Peel) gave us some specimens last night of the terms in ribinoo was described, especially by one hon. and learned ge n .. .. tin if (Mr. O'Connell.) He (Mr. Praed) would refer the lin u t Of the speeches oft o hon. members on that subject, and the St,' le would mention was the gallant and honourable member for titer (Col. Evans). During the last Parliament, when the questic42, the duration of Parliament was brought forward, that gallant asked them if they really believed the House of Commons trastja distinguished as some seemed to imagine fbr enj o y ing confidence of the people, and if so, they were greatly dec6l 7o —if, said he, honourablegentlemen would go back to to the lu°_..tisel and say, they voted for the Irish Coercion Bill ; for the For of so many millions to the owners of West India Estates ; a nd ,, a go the poor la, amendment bill, vesting is three Commission s s `lo millions of revenue—he (Col. E.) said, he would like know if they would be again returned. The hon. and learned n i .,4 to for Tipperary, (Mr. Shiel), in speaking on the same question, objecAisl-01 the duration of Parliament, not generally, but to the last pa r tiot in particular. What had they done, the learned gentleman 11 ' ni t They had renewed the Bank Charter. He asked also if they j O : o se gressed, (to use an American phrase) what would they not do if Old g o tinued creeping on so six years longer ? They on his (the ministeria l) so s of the house who were the advocates of long parliaments could retcg d the members of the opposite side, and ask them why they, the adrn(lie of short parliaments, were displeased at this sudden change ? W e ' v e/ opposed to the adage, that "short reckonings make long fri ends l i i With respect to the duration of Parliaments under the Reform lh t ",s, was argued that there ought to be a short duration, and he thoug h d because by it there was a new constituency created, which co nstitute had no experience, and were not qualified to exercise that franc, which they were so ambitious to obtain. And there was °0 reason why the late Parliament should not have ha d a A es' , duration, because the elections were the offipring of fevei Bn-,11.) citement, created by the granting of that measure.—(Loud eitA`"lo And those elected under it, were chosen more out of gratl ens ;a l those who voted for the measure, than from the exercise of a discretion, in his own borough, where there were a large / stituency of ten pound freeholders and of the corporati°;..lo (Laughter and cheers.) If tee gentlemen on the opposite sneered at the word corporation, he would call his b'°,,,°los a close one if they chose.—(Laughter.) But this he must say, that ,t 0 he canvassed the 10/. freeholders, he was refused upon the grou nd e r had not voted for the reform bill.—(Cheers.) When the present e-orf ment was examined, it would be found that the conservative 04001 was not half represented. The dissolution of the late Parllnilt pe was made a ground of complaint against the present Ministry , taik conceived that there were no grounds for such a charge, as i t 17 ' 0 solved at a period when the country was perfectly tranquil, and W o of' state to form a just judgment of the nature of their fr 3, 011 He would ask whether the present House of Commons fairly re l3 ' .- 0 1 the nation ? If it did it was clear that,the last did not. Thereof" at least two hundred gentlemen in the present house wh o h a g te, ver been in Parliament before, and about one hundred who w," in the last. Now, did not that show to his Majesty gel wish of the people to support his present advisers by returning number of Members who were unconnected with, and unplede u Administration?—(Hear, hear.) He would say thus it ° oikst was pointed out last night by the right hon. baronet ran"' swerably, that the speech from the throne, and the ad dr e ois e i his Majesty were far more distinct than the e sPr _,' to be found in the amendment. His Majesty's ministers, tp pointed distinctly to the tithe question in Ireland, but WhinbooSeA noble lord, in his amendment, had wrapped up in vague, 0 9 :1 rity.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If the noble lord desired teoods' his amendment effective, heshould point out the steps which he i h n ;e0 0 : 1 to take to remedy those abuses in the church of Ireland whic h "" OS; plained of. It was admitted that, upon this question, there waset differences of opinion between the right honourable D 7 '',0405 the head of the Government and those who constituted th e h r o tir% opposition. Why, was not that difference distinctly before th e th He would only refer to one question that was mentioned 'ctielr, the Speech sad the Address, and that was—Municipal Co r P er o, The noblelord in his amendment thanked his Majesty for ordering :40, of the municipal commissioners to be laid before the house, acid hove' his Majesty that their best attention should be given to its consi"00100 The borough of Norwich had been referred to as a close coreel D, He had no doubt that the noble lord behind him (Lord Stornlollo , found out long since that it was no such thing—(hear, a nd :ou He placed confidence in the Government of the right P tlf e l baronet, because he had never found him an Anti-Reformer, 1.60,i reforms which were calculated for the support of the ConstA U L e riStr, the good of the people.—(Cheers.) He trusted if honourable ;ea" thought it right to attack the right hon. baronet's g oTer 4o , that they would find much better ground than that of fol,;e' licy—( Loud cries of " Question, question," and " Hea r, " v " amid which the hon. member sat down. O a 0 1 Mr. SHEIL then rose and said, the hon. and learned gentle bi had just sat down had shown great skill and ability in hi s sPee`,..,d, orid had done him the honour of quoting a passage from his IfP'L ' est the motion for electing Mr. Abercromby as Speaker, but "-oleo ask whether it was fair to bring in that now, whether Parlialn en s uebi be reduced from seven to four years, when there had lately he e .i n o tS9 unusual stretch of the prerogative—(Cries of " No") —he WO W ' -to by that word then, but qualify it a little. He would couleelotr:o q uestion before the house, and he must deny that the 14 If i A,4 administration was any thing at all belonging to tha t on fa re head was Lord Grey. The Melbourne administration 500 o'l upon one great and essentially good principle—the correction ,o f 441 1 abuses of the church establishment in Ireland.—(Great C o ° Ord The honourable and learned gentleman had tried hard t° the Melbourne administration with the Grey one, b° were perfectly distinct—the Melbourne one ws s teat4l , upon the almost unanimous declarations of its member', s e a revenues of the Established Church in Ireland shou ld he thstele ated in a different manner than they now were. We cont en t bef tb s t is essentially necessary for the peace and welfare of Irelan d oat of must be a new distribution of those revenues, and it is uP n° tha t , that we vote for the amendment, and it was u n that P int Premier had dissolved Parliament. In his most e!'i te he e /10 of last night, he had not attempted to put his resolut ion to tit 04 upon the fantastical grounds upon which it had then been o P ft ee l eis hon. gentleman. He would then inquire into the conductea R 1 e 1 opposite since the passing of the Reform Bill. Had they S ' e t pia ls d,) these few years in the spirit of the Reform Bill, as t he i r diee r , f t were now fully prepared to do.—(Loud and continue,. esserwspf The hon. baronet boasted that they had suppressed rnani,,,T4 r°_,rt i , the Grey Cabinet ; but that was the reason, he said. , n — v iev .. o ) acted in the spirit of the Reform Bill, because thos e (COV were the very ones which they and his party ope nsed. at lord°, But it was a question on which the late administration were WS. ) " with the feelings of the majority of the people of Ireland, t'' o hon. Baronet did tender his support to the administratin n the eb r oef What did the right hon. Bart. oppose ? Did he not oplon se , " ,areh Reform Bill which contained a clause for the abolition-of 1 -' • l ad D e e AS in Englandand cries of " No, no.") tha t f' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER o bserve a ;o at on the contrary expressed a decided and distinct o pinion i n i or , c ar t abolition of church rates. 00 0 s pel Mr. SHEIL resumed; and assured the house, wit h teu ma ' y, that he felt the greatest satisfaction in being ° ,: ioo of statement; but he believed that the clause for the 001 hgta .; ~~ y