The Sun. — London, England, 1835-02-25 00:00:00

)lea and : • He was sure e consonant with iples which were Lord has thought wession, he said, .ing an untruth. .?en an error 10 s the first time I [ cries of Or d)uld e:,tifuse the false opinion. I e Lord chose to entertain the n?- eir enanies said question for the that the Govern ,nds rather than not that I altered iger of the Noble ght to do more Lnd Learned Lord as I did, but my e an offensive at- ction— understood to re -1828, but I said which was suspi lefended, I might snce of the noise is Lordship was d Lord had said ly satisfactory to ester, which con the people saw Sir Robert Peel, tors. But there id Sir R. Peel Cobbett op vhich the Noble —the passing of e reason why the it what we* the displayed in the A Thomson and against the sup overnment, who lur of Cobbett. the metropo s had been en• anticipated. Sir at the Mansion lom the country nen upon whose George Murray ited Lords of the , nt after they had ed as ever a con- Noble Duke had from the repre d also suffered a les of reform was the late elections. wernment, ought en tried. already uide the helm of 'y simply on the tnd if they were core not entitled to the question y's Ministers had Nhich implied an at question. 118 se owned that be e wishes o f the mbered the man': ed on thrA. same en a measure for ht in by his Mae he most factious The rejection of t possible distress' strife and blood- at fib #).??2,-not ttl his Noble Friend , "1---( Hear, hear.) ite, that altho ugh Tared to girt his s. It might 'oee%** on with t'ae late induced him to id not think that th,A explanation , from a feeling or he was then assa was impossible be iffering from theta It that be could Ita nment that he had felt that his true hear.) With re tot give them hl e disposed to oppO im to do so. 1.11 would add that acting up to the lures which they t. His nob4e and ter occasions were Never, entitled to Anions and adv°' That, however, lact voted again tst ise of Parliamet. assed the Reform tered it a degrada iurc was brough t nal sacrifices, but. Tt, and he neve e he had formed! )inet in which tti mrned Friend W$ irm in the House ices which led to rct to the circuin certainly agreed ircumstances were detended, unless essary. He would ight to be takeout.. fled ; but having think there were to the measurei at they appeared' re was nothirig for Minist,eo some assurance nformity w i th the who wished for the Governmen t • G more direct jo' :ace, that it vt isi s to which it O n detail. There ssures intended te ity with the prin t happiness of the bus questions to d, because there ring the sessi" o ms, he must. Si with regard t ° re Speech did ae t he country upo n measures were to e sound and ail. difficulties which corporations, ob have been mor e Lted, he repeated ent, because be whom.—(l - I . .ear) ke." He begge 4 cl been : m inded ned Lord on the ving filled up si%. ad been virtual l f 10 or 12 comnh before; that even . cocommissionscommissions• • hO er the Govern-, , e led to • :cc 1,6 ' ; tz• Woe.sack that those COO: —were not issued it of the counti iat, he took leave ilted the feeling" of new jtistices. choice of mag ic ' endeavoured t ° itical feeling' -Lieutenant svh ° as as to w hethe r st which he 11; 1 sic and Leal.'" with the sea l '' The urgency 0 ' le Seals been been virtur;al late ocuAiion ) SouthamPt ol4 communicatO ibjeot. He ha d ter or qua fic e keep the peat idcd against the 2 c ogn izances . t° :ime in que sti°o ~ reste d entire,' power of lb ! bound over t' 3, that si2c fiat s the day of the ed ed to be sig n hese. An t he ation on thee Learned ned a fortai' e late Mini WI the OrAC , ,, an d. hree, dais after Jues'tion." aring his int 41 7 1 the rejectic cur.) Son se 11- who we' ,•edi''; would ' he Pre' ,ent ;01; men whO 1 : 3 11 0 , t, ho ',eve w r i col . . . HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEZ. 24. ;The SPEAKER resumed the Chair at a quarter to 4 o'clock, and about a dozen members were sworn in. At half -past 4, there were about three hundred members present, and of these at least 250 were on the opposition benches. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. The usual Sessional orders relative to election petitions were then read, as also those for the sitting of the Committee of Grievances and the other Standing Committees. Mr. W ARBURTON observed that these orders were read session after session, although they were never carried into effect. He did not see, therefore, the necessity of making these 'orders, and would move that they be deferred until the next time the House met, which was the course pursued at the com mencement of the last session. The orders were accordingly postponed. Sir G. CLERK gave notice that to-morrow he should fix a day for the regulation of private business and petitions. DISSENTERS' MARRIAGES. ...The Hon. M em b er t h en gave not i ce, that on the 17th of lief ll he sh ou ld move f or l eave to bring in a Bill for the ye " of persons dissenting from the Chur c h o f E ng l an d, re l at i ve l to the regulations observed in marriages.—( L ou d an d reitera d cries of " Hear, hear.") TITHES. The Hon. Member then gave notice, that on the 24th inst, ne t; 00 11 d move for leav e t o b r i ng i n a Bill f or t h e Commuta -11( 'i -°„11 ta l. , of Tithes in England and Wales.—( L ou d cr i es of , hear.") POOR LAWS. sh n lif , r ; COBBETT gave notice, that on the 2d o f A pr il h e C u m move for leave to bring in a Bill t o re p ea l t h e P oor T i a W B Atn en d hle.nt Bill.—( Laughter. and " Hear, hear, hear.") :Ron. M em ber also gave notice, that he should move for 7 e to bring in a • Bill for the equitable adjustment of what 1 48 called the N a tional Debt---( Hear, hear)—so that none uut holder s of land a od real property should be taxed for the Payment of the interest of that debt. mo ve HARDY give notice t h at on M arc h 19, h e should rve for leave to bring in a Bill for the consolidation of th e :relating to Bribery. Bdr. DIVETT gav , notice of a Bill for the extinction o f urch rat es — ( h ear, h ear ) ; an d a l so o f a Bill f or t h e i n- of the duty on spirit licenses. THE MALT TAX. t o Th e Marquis of C H AND 0 S gave notice of his intention ou leove for leave to bring in a Bill for the Repeal of the Duty hlralt.---( Hear, and cheers.) P OULTER gave notice that on the 11th March he I %d mov e f or l eave to b r i ng i n a Bi l l f or t h e B etter Oh tt.',l'vance the S'abbath ; also a Bill to protect Freeholders in exercise of the Elective Franchise. MILITARY FLOGGING. uPou PANCOURT gave notice that in the Committ ee the Military Estimates, he should introduce a motion f or 44 1:0titio n of military flogging.—( Cheering.) IRISH POOR LAWS. Oil' R. .MUSGRAVE gave notice that, on the 24th of li k f r e h, he .ch ould move t o b r i ng i n a Bill to aut h or i se t h e re ofthe poor in Ireland.—( Hear. ) THE IRISH CHURCH. sl i t WARD qave notice that on the 12th of March he te °- „ h ", bring under 341". Episcopal the consideration of the House the Pro urch of Ireland, and the necessity of C oo t i g it correspond with the wants of the people of that ii,rrY.- (Loud cries ott' " Hear, hear.") gave no!i'ce that he should move that no bu tilllt„-10a commenc g ed after i o'clock at night.—( Hear.) Also 431 4 he should bring in a VII for the reduction of the duty le t i c ? l ,East India sugar to the same rate as that upon West uh ,l s ,odu ce t also a Bill to give prisoners full defence by t‘° - "'et ; and a bill for the abolition of capital punishments. kr POST OFFICE. (of WALLACE (Greenock) gave notice, that on the 3d klis ar ch he would move a resolution, that the reporters of agablic press should be allowed to remain within the House (( l the the divisions were taken. He further gave notice, that 4 aa n : e s th of March he would move an inquiry into the lenient of the Post Office. I ,lfr u RATHCORMAC AFFRAY. Ra t • • GRA TTAN gave notice, that on the 6th of p v , 0( ...e11, he would move for a Committee of Inquiry into the eil lo -ed higa at Rathcormac.—( Great cheering.) He would t o 2. 17°° ,..ve for copies of letters addressed by Lord F. Somerset H. Vivian upon this subject. e . LAW D i ? DEBTOR AND CREDITOR . t h j ' CAMPBI:LL gave notice that he would, early in kedi S to essi °o, frring in a Bill to amend the law of debtor and and also the law of escheat. • -. "-A I AL OF BISHU.PS FROM THE HOUSE OF Sir LORDS. ,WHALLEY gave notice that, on the 31st of • he would move a resolution that in any plan of 13 t h - „" Reform that should be introduced, the 4 4 ;t1i - r ti s should be requested to give their attendance in the i n! .1,7 0113 0 to give their advice upon ecclesiastical matters, as ht - p7. i ges were - upon questions of law, but without having 11. e h e r of voti ng . The same Honourable Member also I.° P. , ln t . : °t iee that on the 9th of April he would move a t h - " l eo for the repeal of the Window Taxes. Also that t`')4 1 , 44 3 1 /notion f o r the repeal of the Septennial Act, he t hlt t ", nl ove that th e t erm be reduced to three years ; and tz•, 4 „ t itle House of Commons might not sooner be dissolved ttpo.ri the demise of the C: own. oo lj IRISH POOR LAWS. h 'AIIT O'BRIEN gave notice that on the 19th of I" t ct he would ask for leave to bring in a Bill for the relief aged an d jri,lirm poor of Ireland—( Cheers.) DISSENTERS' GRIEVANCES. • 'LEES ;ave notice that on the 20th of March he ' .t • - vn„ee",og under Dissenters, ihe eon3ide o ration f the House the practical -s of the with a view to their relief. I' VOTE BY BALLOT. L 'btli d* " R OTEgave notice th.ltt on the 2 d of April, he -91 1 • move that, for the future, _elections of M em b ers t o 4 ,) ut Parliament should take ace by ;he ballot.—( Cheers. ) th AT TORNEY-GENERAL gave notice that. on the I ts kat 44 1 30 eh, he would introduce founded on the li fmproving th e tk . • the Ecesiasticaooers, Shat o n oc f justice in l E Cmm cclesiastic n Cou or s. al rt i Is t LONDON UNIVERSITY. ° I 1 '°GKE t gave notice, that on the 26th of _March he F e en a dd ress to hi s M a j esty to grant a Charter to ° I'P ation of th e U n i vers i ty o f London containing nd I,l4l.!est.Tistions than r those relating to degrees in divinity. pf It t DW , ER gave notice, that on the lath of March 4 . th e • e t.) , , Troved for the orders given to the soldiery in the event i t colli s i on with the people ; also that, in future, the sol \- ea°o ll4tshould be di recte d t o fi re w ith e ff ec t—( G reat l aug h ter ) f firing over the heads of the people. r C OY ELECTION PETITIONS. ''lYLEYgave notice that he would move that, when io rtkl Iv th e' Jis t i.. were declared void upon petition, the expenses of b e V. 1. • loner should be defrayed by the county, except where 4 1.a 4 14 - I, ll k b ers were unseated for bribery, when the expenses Or, s' t !' Paid by the unseated Members. ivett, A • °'CONNOR gave notice of a motion for some "fr4 1 . . e. t 4 .evidence connected with the fatal affray at Rath- ti , N o , s THE KING'S SPEECH. to 4 -e " at • having been disposed of at Eve o'clock, 'IN ,44tart rn re ° a ti d e TisMajest 'sSpeech (for which see the b ,,tri e t r` o e P, art), at the conclusion y of which 7, t tit t. ' 4 NL'ON rose and said—Even if this were not so i.m -10;14 .nett occas ion, I should feel much difficulty in addressing 1,4431:1,111,.-‘ll3tteen, tiaft I must say I never ventured to trespass N N ithout the deepest feeling . of , my . own in 441 't •"'''eY for oi hen undertaking. The object which ib t !•••4 lll l 4 vie w is i t e .• to the House my reasons for so do iltnaos —ear . ) I e fe s e t l a 'th is to be no ordinary occasion, either t.... "Qici l i r taace to the country or to the House. It is this feeling 4 , t ioril i t u t e,,_ me to ask more ,411k'n the usual share of your at t. N I . _,'." 3 moment. Howe, et . cli eh L alien and uncongenial to my painful, however onerous, parliamentary habits, 1 ,..'.'1y n,:tve never led to trespas): on your attention for iq4°4 ,at length of m t e ime, yet, Sii% when the ques i Iv4s Put c\i 4 . 4 tot he to me whether I would . undertake this task, ti , li lt a. _,,si!ate one instant. I felt . that it Tvas ,n my duty, that t , tty fell al l tunes supported religious liberty amo every class ' l ' kerit:;°W-eountrymen, I was, at the same time, not prepared _ II I: 4 10.4 1 7 InYaelf with those who were its avowed enemies. 1 w Y i t : -inclined to put that corstruction which has been done cr t ' Others pat it was . not so much intended to t o Nti ll: i ii s ll , 4l3 . l ic opinion a useful controul over the members .. of the b .t Li itlOn as it was to decide who those ministers were l i til b i l fa-.....1,,.(r-mld' cheering from thp opposition.) I felt that I:''t 1 -I ° l l t,•as congenial to a certain party—( Hear, he . ay)_ ii, i4 ; ; t l / 11 3 anti; fns to show that . there was one who did not i '4k ti, a t opinion. I was desirous to support that . claim •Itv `"e ß i ght Baronet, head of his Ma tdt . 1 ,4 s Q 0 non: now at the p k t i er m: an ra . , rit hag on his . corzotry, that he should have a gear.) I felt that the lop i Za t i ve u' of the can c d r i n d wn bezr a i s ng t 14 41 11 4, t ti d I felt that it wouldin.bveolvine-ddee;cll; a this ty exercise extin ; A t Ivili e t . li , without further cause, a fair trial were not gra;:Y ( L, lboil:ever myself entertained any confidence in Lo . ra tlk •lit,ree a dministration, I was not anxio . us to . enquire ( ' led the reasons on which that administration was Il t‘l ss f rom an t tl he t u h p e pos p i r t c lu se n l B e u s t tall r i:h th ed at e ir n i qu i ir s y was made had been appealed to. The Ministeri had declared their inteW-n toby another party—(Continued cheers from the Opposition). propose measures ol paramount importanc e t o th e coun t ry Th e present and it is quite right that such an enquiry should be ma a Minister% from very circumstance of their lacing enabled to avail- thethemsel• c re of . the information collected by . their pre decessorscannot in office, be a matter of indifference to any representative.— In a more favourable .. condition to perfect these Measures than the Government of which he had had the honour to form If on these general grounds I felt disposed to take a Part. It they should succeed in carrying those bills whirls were, he part on the present occasion, which I now do, ti:s2 knew, in contemplation by the late ministry, the country would be a Speech which we have just heard from the Throne con- Zgreat gainer, and they might he carried out even to a greater extent, if firms me in the propriety of the course which I have ug li ht ouse of Commons sh ou ld t h ink fit. The country at large, he deemed it right to pursue. I ask those who were connect were desirous of seeing what those measures were, He looked ed with Lord Grey's Administration, and confident that M th e °nse(!u"ces likely to result from the overthrow of the present they will not desert the principles of that junction, I as::, tTicould Administration without a trial. If they were turned out to-morrow, are those principles endangered by the present Administra - nother di, ti so cc iu e t e i d them in the present state of the [louse of Commons 1 1 tion ? The principles which were emblazoned on the standar 1 ahad. feelings which on ,,h w e c i uld inevitably be resorted to by the succeeding of that Administration were " Peace, Economy, and R:- Ae rnitestration. s . the country would be re_ to and all the form." With regard to peace, there cannot be the lea , t ch prevailed on such occasions would be called forth— apprehension that while the present Administration is in circumstance which made him regret that the late dissolution ever had e.avter taken place. NVith regard to the causes `of the dissolution of the power, that principle will be endangered—for I find that with late ministry, he could offer no opinion. He was not in the Cabinet, some countries we are on terms of a friendly footing, while wit h nn r __was he . aware of the pledges which that Cabinet might have made to other countries we are on more friendly terms—( Cheere from the Ministerial side, and loud laughter from the theeeessesvereign. still less would he give any positive opinion as to the __ity of dissolving the House of Commons. There was one p ar t of Opposition.) At the Same time our connection wit is Nis to , k _ 37a iestra Speech which met with his warmest applause—he alluded the free states of Europe continues uninterrupted, and expressions promissory of relief to the agriculturists. He regretted those states which do not enjoy the great blessings of free t ," 0 " . ! , part of the Speech was mention made of, establishing poor laws t Ireland. In conclusion the tiobl Duke repeated that he would giv Government feel such confidence in the maintenance the Ad ministration a fair ;rial,.thou e gh without reposing confidence of the peace of Europe, that they are disposed to role tha w n upon the prefessions of the present, and to live in peace and The E ar l of LIMERICK, harmony with neighbo ur i ng St ates . —(l ron i ca l c h eers from the who spoke fro m th e cross b enches was understood to dissent hom the view taken by the Noble Duke who Opposition.) I suppose, from the cheers with which Hon. Ilx)kelast on th e su bj ect of poor laws for Ireland. Gentlemen receive this statement, that they consider it disad_ liv The question was then put on the amendment, which was nega- vantageous to maintain th e p eace o f E urope. Thi s i s a new ed without a division. The original address was then agreed to doctrine of th e Whi gs —i t i s not t h e doctr i ne of the old Adjourned. Whigs—it is not the doctrine of Mr. Fox ;itis a strange doc trine of those who professed the principles of non-interference, professions very highly made in language, but not in fact. The name of the Duke of Wellington and his colleagues were sufficient—( Hear, hear)—their character for econo mical Ref orm , w hi c h h a d rece i ve d t h e eulogy of their successors, ought to be a guarantee of the good faith with they intend to act in this respect : but the estimates which, according to his Majesty's Speech, are to be laid before us, afford us something more than an hypothetic& conclusion, and sufficient, in my opinion, to satisfy ever. the Honourable Member for Middlesex (Mr. Hume). Sir, I hope in that state of the public revenue—l hope we may see after the charges necessarily incurred by that great act of humanity, the act for the abolition of Negro Slavery— when I say these charges shall have been defrayed, I hope to see considerable relief, and that we shall find large burdens taken off the shoulders of the people. And although I am more intimately connected with the commercial than with the agricultural interest, yet I do hope that the interest of the latter will never be lost sight of by the Government or by this House.—( Hear, hear.) The third great question, and by far the greatest one, 110 doubt, is that of Reform.—( Cheers.) Sir, Lord Grey, in the question of Parliamentary Reform, made larger concessions to the public feeling than he had originally intended.—(No, no, from the opposition.) . He went so far avowedly for the pur pose of avoiding further advances on the road of reform which , some gentlemen were inclined to travel, and accordingly he resisted, and those who were his colleagues in office resisted the motions made from time to time by honourable Gentlemen for further changes in our parlia m e n t ar y system. These chang es were move d for by men who now sit on the same side of the House with the Members of the late Govern ment.—( Hear.) Therefore, with regard to Reform, I think it is quite apparent that Lord Grey had gone the full length of his measures, and to the extent of the principles propounded by his Administration. If they had not done more in carrying forward reform, do any Hon. Gentlemen mean to stand up and say that they expect further concession from that party —( Hear and cheers from the Opposition.) Am Ito under stand that cheer as acquiescing in my assertion ?—( No.) I say I must do so in any assembly where common sense preponderates. I thought Hon. Gentlemen would leave that manner of de bating in their taserns and on their hustings. I know it will he said that the present Government, if they follow up the principle of reform will be open to a charge of inconsistency. I know it may be said that they are untrue to their pro ff - fessions, if they do not repeal that which, while it was in progress, they described as fatal to the interests of this country ; but I do not think that this House will agree in this opinion, or believe that they tamper with their principles, or sacrifice their feelings in the least degree. I think that that doctrine will be no longer held : it would be dangerous to the House's dignity, as it would be injurious to the interests of society. The question of Catholic Emancipation was , considered as one of great importance and difficulty ; at the same time, I never heard it asserted of any man who took office since, and who had voted for the Bill after opposing it, that he had been a traitor to his prin ciples.—( Hear.) But, Sir, if in the way of Parliamentary Reform there was any difficulty of an association between the present and the late Administration under the manage ment of Lord Grey—( Hear, and laughter from the Opposi tion)—l say Lord Grey has given no more than the present Administration could have given, and the present Administra tion will not therefore take away anything. You will say the Re form Bill was not an ideal measure, but that it was to be one of effect, and perhaps no subject is so important as that of the reform of the Municipal Corporations.—( Hear, hear.) There is no doubt that in those corporations consi derable abuses exist, but it is a question of great compli cation and difficulty.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") Upon this his Majesty's Commissioners, who were appointed under the Ministry of Lord Grey have not yet made their re port, and it cannot be expected that this or any other Mi nistry can bring forward any definitive measure, until the re sult of that enquiry be known.--( Hear, hear, hear.) I have at the same time a confidence in that report, and when it is once made, the present Government will not be slow, not only in giving full consideration, but effect to the recommendations founded thereon.--(Hear, bear. ) Sir, with regard to the grievances, the practical grievances of dissenters, it is perhaps the second question in importance. Sir, Ido not conceive that much difference exists between the principles of the two parties ; but I find that there is an agreement upon three great points—marriages, registration of births, and exemption from Ch urc h ra t es .— With regard to Church Reform, he entertained not the slightest doubt but the Right Hon. Baronet would introduce such Constitutional measures as would meet no objection ; and the only difficulty then would be in the detail. Now, as to the Church-rate, it was true that it was h burthen ; but it fell upon the land, and the measures which were under consideration would relieve them from the burthen, and the course which the Right Hon. Baronet was determined to pursue would overcome all difficulties.—( Cheers from the Opposition.) The admission of Dissenters to the University was another question which absorbed public attention. He would not discuss the point then in detail as to what the Dis senters were entitled to. They had already obtained many pri vileges to which he would not question their right. However, no material difference of opinion existed upon that ground. And no doubt all real grievances would be readily and freely redressed.--( Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet was not unmindful of the necessity th e r e was f or th e i mprovements 1 of the legal institutions of the country. In his address to his constituents, he had pronounced that the improvement in I the civil and ecclesiastical institutions of the country claimed and should have his attention—( Cheers.) And such improvements, while they gave tranquillity to the country. would afford security to property. There was another impor tant point which demanded their best attention, and that was the question of Irish Tithes—(Hear).—and he was assured that a measure would be announced which would prove a satis factory arrangement of that question, and no doubt would entitle it to the co-operation of those on the other side of the House who gave their support to Lord Grey's measure.— ( Cheers.) And be regretted that the Bill which had been introduced by his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ire land had been thrown out, but he still felt confident that the measure which his Majesty's Government is about to intro duce would meet with support, and load to a more succesf ful termination : it would be unlike the MeaStifC introduced by the Hon. Member for Dublin, which, while it disregarded the rights of one party, gave eta ieordinpte power to the other. At the same time I cannot help saying that the feeling of this House decidedly was that all the evils which gypee from the pres.rK system, and from the collection of the tithe in small sums, were' still in existence; and diet these could only be got rid of by e i n ishing the plan of composition.—( Hear.) It is undeniable that ti;: se evils existed, and it must be, I am sure, the common object of government to get rid of these evils. We are told also, t i ;:.‘t another great tegil attendant upon the present system of the Established Church in Ireland, is, that when the peasantry have paid their dues to the Protestant church Establishment—a Church unconnected with the religious instruction of the people—they have, in addition, V , pay for the support of a Church of their own. If it were proposed to take away the revenues of the Protestant Church in certain parts of Ireland, and transfer them to the Roman Catholic population, thereby relieving them from the tax which (by the evidence of persons of their own persuasion) they labour under, thereby rendering the clergy independent of their own flocks, whatever objections might arise (and they were nothing material), at least a great good would be obtained, The Members of the late Administration, one and all, dis.. claimed the intention, in their plan, of giving one shilling to the Catholic Priesthood. Their scheme was that tithe was still to be collected in all its odium, and then that they should get rid of a certain number of the Pro testant clergymen, from the revenues of whose parishes the Catholic clergy were to be paid. We cannot do what that Government proposed to do, without inflicting a great shock upon the public feeling of the people of this country, and without effecting a great change in the public property, and occasioning great alarm in the minds of the people of Ireland ; and by giving a feeling of triumph to one party, and a feeling of discomfiture to the other---( Hear)--and all this without attaining sney advantage such as we would wish, by relieving the peasantry of the West and South of Ireland from the burdens under which they labour. This measure did not meet, And did not attempt to meat the wants and wishes of the people, liis Majesty has announced that he has in contemplation a =wire of English Church Reform. (Cheers. ) Thi s i s a ques ti on of Y 4-4 import ance, perhaps more important than the reform in the Church in Ireland, though much less encumbered with difficulties. It is most important to establish feelings of union and harmony between the ministers of the Church and the people. This is on all hands admitted to be most desirable. But the real question of Church reform which the Gaveinzaent has propounded to the country, the ono which will be the most important, is that which will be the most eateesive, the safest, the most beneficial, and at the time the dearest to the hearts of the people, I mean the reform in the English Church, I do not think that tili3 qneFtion comes with an ill grace from the present Administrating. Who 4 I recollect that the fiat move in the better dietribetion q tlae revenues: in aae Chur:th came from the same party—( retell:Woes cheering . fpm the Ministerial side of the House)—when I recollect that the nteasure which distributed about 300,0001. among ;he working glom and rarer part of th e clergy , ' ...11.. ! bers formerly among the advocates of ecclesiastical reform, so far as the Church of Ireland was concerned ; and so far also as the extension of political privileges to the Catholics of Ireland ; while there were others among them as strongly opposed to those measures ?—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in imitation of my Noble Colleague, has thrown out certain expressions, by way of decoy to some of the members of Earl Grey's Administration. He trusted that those Noble Lords and Right lion. Gentlemen would not listen to the seducing language of his Noble Friend and Colleague, nor of the lion. and Learned Gentleman; but that they would turn a deaf ear to their voices, charm they never so discreetly. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1835. came from Mr. Perceval and a noble and rev. relative of mine, I do not think that any charge of inconstency can be, or will he, brought against them for bringing forward a measure of Church Reform. (Loud Cheering.) It is not at all ne cessary to refer to this measure. It has been mentioned in his Majesty's speech, and it has been mentioned in that commission, which has been long before us, and I will say that it is difficult to find a subject connected with Church Reform which has not been alluded to more or less distinctly hi the terms of this Commission, in the object of whi c h I heartily concur, as being one of those nearest to my own feelings. I haVe looked for this measure with great anxiety ; it is a measure that has been long desiderated, and coining from the quarter it does, it will not be looked to with the same jealousy.—( Cheers from the Opposition.) I am glad to see that his Majesty has so much at heart the extension of religious education to the poorer classes, as well in this country as in Scotland. _I am sincerely glad that the poorer classes in Scotland have not been forgotten. I hope that the principles laid down in that measure will be commen surate to the religious wants of the community.--(Cheers. ) I know that these are reforms not touching the feelings cd' many Gentlemen here, and not suitable to the Hon. Member for Dublin ; but I know that they are reforms which affect the feelings of the great majority of the people.—( Great cheer ing. ) We who mingle with every class of the people, know the real feelings of the people; and those who, like myself; are representatives of the largest towns in the empire, know that such reforms interest the feelings, and will secure the approbation of the people.--( Hear.) I think that I have now touched upon all the leading subjects alluded to in the King's speech.. I feel that having undertaken these Reforms, His Majesty's Government will go on in a spirit of sound and wholesome not speculative, reform. I feel that the Reforms they have proposed, give them claim—not only to the support of their friends, hut also of those who sit on the opposition benches. Ido not know in what respect those who formed part of Earl Grey's Administration, or who supported it—or who were attached to it--I do not mean the Ad mistration of Lord Melbourne, for to that Ministry I am not aware that attachment was ever shown ; but I ask those who supported Earl Grey's Ministry, whether the reforms now proposed are not such as Lord Grey himself would have proposed ?—( Hear.) I ask those Gentlemen whether they feel very comfortable in the seats which they now hold, and in the company in which they now are ? Ido not allude to the personal, but to the political character of Hon. Members.—( Hear, hear.) . But do - they feel comfortable in a union with those who advocate uni versal suffrage and all the other tenets of the Radical school ? Is it possible that those gentlemen who maintain so strongly, and I believe sincerely, can long unite themselves with those who hold that the Established Church is a curse, and publicly avow they will never rest until that Church is destroyed? Can they, who are so strongly attached to the inte grity of the empire, unite themselves with those who only suspend the agitation—(Loud cheers from the Ministe rial benches)—who only suspend agitation at this nioment, for the dismemberment of the Establishment, because they think that a temporary suspension will ultimately advance their cause.—( Loud cheers.) I should be curious to know what is the common principle, that over-weening principle, that attaches them to that party. lam sure that it would not induce them all to merge into this one common consideration of de struction. This is not a time for party spirit—( Hear)—this I repeat, is not a time for party spirit. There are seasons in which every man is bound to think for himself, to look around, and to see the responsibility which rests upon him. I have, I . must confess, sanguine hopes that a great proportion of those respectable gentlemen will not unite with those persons whom I have described, and indeed I might say that I do not think they will find it consistent with their former character so to do. I will not intrude further on the attention of the public, and if I have occasionally expressed myself too strongly, I can assure the House that nothing is farther from my intention, and that it is rather to be attributed to my want of habit, my trespassing on their consideration. I have mixed largely with almost every one in this House, but the sense of public duty would not allow me to describe less strongly my opinions on the subject of the speech from the throne. In conclusion I shall beg pardon for having trespassed so long upon your attention, and by moving that an humble address of thanks be moved to I his Majesty for his Majesty's most gracious speech. Mr. BRAMSTON rose to second the address—Sir, if my Noble Friend found it necessary to appeal to the indulgence of the House in addressing to it the observations which he felt it his duty to make when proposing the address to the Throne, how much greater must not my demand be, when I throw myself upon the kindness of my Honourable Friends, especially as I am but a few weeks after my election, and this is the first occasion on which I have addressed the House. I assure you that it is with no common feelings of embar rassment that I find myself called upon to address you ; but I am so far relieved, that the observations which it might be my duty to offer are curtailed, because my Noble Friend has already gone over every topic mentioned in the speech from the Throne. Sir, in the motion for an address to the Throne, in return for his Majesty's most gra cious Speech, I think there are many subjects upon which all sides must agree. lam sure that all sides must agree in re turning our most cordial thanks to his Majesty for having so promptly met the difficulties in which both Houses of Parlia ment were placed by the late calamitous fire. Our gratitude is also due to his Majesty for having called us together so soon after our elections, and relieving the Public mind of that anxiety which all must feel, in knowing why his Majesty, in the undoubted exercise of prerogative--( Cheers from the Opposition)---dismissed the late Government and called other men to his councils to direct the great and important measures, which the country demands.—(Cheers.) There are other subjects on which all must agree in thanking our Sovereign, especially for that which religion dictated, and humanity prompted—the abolition of negro slavery iii the West Indies. I am sure, Sir, that all will agree with me in the satisfaction which must be experienced from the assurances which his Ma jesty has received from all foreign States of their anxiety to pre vent any interruption to that greatest of blessings, public peace. Peace is at all times desirable, and there is no question that it is particularly so at the present moment, in order that the attention of this House - should not be directed abroad, when it has so many important measures to consider at home. His Majesty has also directed the attention of this House to the strict economy which has been observed in every department of the State expenditure —at the present period more particularly the estimates have been framed upon a lower scale than at any time since the conclusion of the war. Allusion has also been made to the difficulties under which the agricultural interests labour.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") A short time since, in August, 1833, the agricultural interests were considered to be at so low an ebb, that a Committee was appointed to consider both the cause of the depression, and how it might be remedied. At that time the average price of wheat was 545. the quarter ; and in the following year, 1834, his Majesty had occasion in the Speech from the Throne, to allude to the general distress that prevailed in that most important interest, and to express his gracious sympathy in that distress. If we find that at that time, when the average price was somewhat about 425. a quarter, and now that the average price is only 455., we must respectfully hope th a t th e case o f t h e B r i t i s h agriculturists will be taken into serious consideration. It is evident from the attention which has been paid to this subject, that the distress has not been at all exaggerated, but on the contrary it has been encreasing on us.—(Loud cries of " Hear.") The attention of his Majesty has been again called to this subject, and I do hope that it will receive from the hands of his Majesty's Go.. vernment some extensive remedy for the depression under which it at present labours.—( Hear.) I trust that some ex tensive measure of relief will be brought forward,--( Hear. ) Of all the various measures that called the attention of this House during the last Session of Parliament, the most im portant was the question of Irish Tithes. As, however, that question has already undergone long discussions in this House, I will not allude more particularly to it at present. All I will say is, that I view with the greatest pleasure the prospect of a commutation of Tithes It is a subject the expediency of which is admitted on all hands, and the only question is as to its extent. It is a strong proof of the honesty and impartiality of the present Government, that they have waited for the report of the Commissioners that were appointed by their pre decessor:—it undoubtedly shows an intention on their part to act fairly.—( Hear, hear, and cheering.) When I look at the subjects to which our attention has been drawn by his Majesty, I feel a confidence that they afford just cc-rounds of hope to the country. I will not detain the House iVith any further observations; all I will add is that if his Majesty's Uovernment act honestly and fairly iiipor . ithe princi ples contained in his Majesty's mos t G raci ous . Speech -( Hear)--I shall consider myself bound, both in duty to this House, and to my constituents, to give them my humble inkio4 ; Cheers.) I will conclude by seconding the motion, The Addre,s 4 wig then read from the chair. After it had been read, s r i o d s o e a o n f d w t h a e s r H e c o e o i v s o e . d with ie l o s u a d i d, cheers .i‘ir there would be much room fo r cr iti c i sm , s till l ess f or positive S 'r p oLr' e l a o k rld e b r l3 , M i o : Pßp o o r Ps d iE i t n iTo a n r i ; times of difficulty I do not know that itive opposition in the gracious speech we have this day heard from the drone, but so far from being ordinary, they are such special circumstances and times, that on behalf of those for whom we are assembled--and I think I can speak for the large bulk of my cionstituenta-,they 09r 3 0t that We shall not confine onrselves to the fonnalities and courtesies et' ftu ordinary period, which would be perhaps more congenial to our ,dispositions, but that we should express ourselves in language calm, respectful, and not 10 be misunderstood—( Great cheering); that we shOtild sty te the Impression which the present state of affairs excites in our minds, and that we should convey them in the accredited and accustomed fognner to the foot of the Throne.—(Great cheering.)— In venturing tq Ovo this assertion, I am far from saying that his Majesty's most graciOP gipeeoh, or the Address %I hich has been moved by my Noble Friend, whntla no man oan know .iYithout esteeming, are more vague than such documents arc n general. The Speech from the Throne and the Address; do not, I must say, contain much matter to give high satisfac tion to all those wh o col y i bi na w ith 4 Hired attachment to th e institutions of their country, a firm desire to see them purified and reformed from all their remaining eorrup ii9PS and imperfections.—( Cheers.) The speech lays peculiar sops:: Q the state of the Church Establishment, of England. I can assure my Noble Friend that I shall go along with him on this occasion.__( Hear, hear.) I should be anxious to receive f rom him, or from any Ad m i n i s t ra , t Jon, any ‘"b" T 01° be - • ,", . YY • advantageous, with a sincere wish to adapt them to the best interests pf the count r y an d re li g i on. Still I cannot dissemble my opinion, that I tbilik we might at the same time have ex pected, whether considerations nn the nature' of its inter* o ganization or more recent circumstances might not have been proposed to the House. W e m i g h t h ave expected some more direct ;;!!:# ion to its bearings with the Church of Ireland—( Cheers from the opposition),-,to its bearings on the condition of that much injured and harassed country. Ido not mean that I would invite the House to enter into any specific detail, or any specific plan on that most arduous subject, but I think that we ought certainly to know that it does not escape cur notice.—( Cheers.) His Majesty has adverted to the state of the Committee now sitting on Corporation abuses. It is gra tifying to me that this has beer, adverted to, because I the country feels a deep interest in this most important inquir7. But it is desirable that we should have something beyond the bare intimation that the Commission is in progress, and, thy; its labours would be soon laid before us. The country wit require to know something of the principle upon which i is intended to act in legislating upon this subject, and, a, it appears to me, w hi c h s h ou ld gu i de the Administration. upon a question so notorious in its general features, the pri. - ciple of having the funds under the control of and admit, stered by the people, for whose benefit Corporations were first instituted.--( Cheers.) His Majesty has been graciously pleased to notice the claims of the Protestant Dissenters, and in ac knowledging this mark of his Majesty's condescension, I own I am anxious that it should not be inferred that this House sup poses those grievances to be limited to the sole question of marriage.—( Cheers.) My Noble Friend in his speech made the concession that other points--church-rates, perhaps-- might be included in the Ministerial mind. But these items are not, as they should be, in the record. Now with respect to these and other topics of concession and subjects of reform, while we gratefully acknowledge the notice which we are assures' will be bestowed upon them, I own it is difficult to look back upon events which have occurred since the last time the Parliament assembled in Westminster, with out expressing a wish that some less doubtful language ha( been used, and some more substantial reforms had beet promised to the country. I should like that some assuranc of measures of real amelioration had been given to the people. and that they should find, though the Tories ware in office, we would no longer have Tories in power.--( Cheers. ) Now, Sir, I do not think either that the events themselves to which I have thus cursorily alluded are entitled to dismissal without some slight remark. I have not to remind an audienct like this of the nature and character of those events. Hi: Majesty, in the exercise of his undoubted prerogative, wa, pleased to dismiss the Government of which Lord Melbourne was at the head. No one admits the lawful exercise of that high prerogative with more entire deference than I do ; nor will I be more slow, though perhaps in point of form I may be less correct, in stating my sincere belief that his Majesty is in capable of exercising it but with the most upright and single. hearted intention to promote the true interests of his people —( Hear, hear.) But, Sir, with that earnest and equal assur ance, ask whether any one within these walls will deny the right of this House to call in judgment, not the inhe rent and unalienable right of the King of these realms but this particular exercise of it, so far as it accepts, or as it rejects, the measures or the administration of them servants of the Crown, and therefore servants of the people also, to whom his Majesty has confided the conditional super intendence of the national affairs ?—( Hear, hoar.) My Noble Friend seemed to wish to infer that one of the new claims put forward on behalf of the Reform Bill is, that it is to lodge with the people the power of deciding who the Ministers of the Crown are to be. Sir, I humbly submit that in this respect the Reform Bill has niade no difference whatever ; but whe ther before or after the passing of the Reform Bill, the power must reside with this House—and through this House, with 'the people of this country—of deciding who the Ministers of the Crown are to be.--(Tremendous cheers.) With the causes of the dismissal of the late Government it is yet reserved for us to become acquainted, and of course it would be premature to pronounce any opinion upon them. Even a curiosity, much more lively than that which my Noble Friend has professed upon the sub ject, must, I think, have found it very difficult to ob tain any gratification. We know, Sir, that the late Ad ministration was one of very recent appointment ; we know that it commanded, to an unprecedented degree, even by the admission o f it s po li t i ca l opponents, the confidence of the late House of Commons ; we k now t h at i t was in a time of complete tranquillity—of comparative and of growing pros perity—that that Administration was dismissed— " It was not in the battle— No tempest gave the shock." With the causes of that dismissal, then, we hope yet to become acquainted ; and with, them we may have to discuss the re sponsibility of its removal.—( Great cheering.) Sure only I am that it does not lie with our constitutional Sovereign. Sir, these causes themselves would, at first sight, appear to have been of a very grave nature indeed, for instead of the usual courtesy of allowing the dismissed occupants of places to retain them until the appointment of their successors— (continued cheering)—there came that most unusual, and, I must add, most unseemly huddling of offices in the single person of the Duke of Wellington.—( Protracted cheer ing.) Of that Noble Duke, lam not disposed to speak, but with that deference which is due to his imperishable re nown ; but, at the same time, with that freedom which his superintendence of the civil and political affairs of this country demand from every Citizen.—( Cheers.) I raise no hypo critical pretence that danger was near during that superinten lence—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side)—but I ask, is it a precedent that ought not to be noticed, and may be follow ed ?—( Cheers.) What harm may not be done, owing to the regularity and order in which every thing was left by the late Administration ?--( Laughter from the Ministerial side, and cheers from the Opposition.) And if I wanted any confirma tion that everything was left in order and regularity, the Speech from the Throne, corroborating and approving of, in every part, all the acts of the late Government, and containing nothing but a proof that no change is meditated by the present Administration, would supply that confirmation. It announces that they only intend to pursue the steps of their predecessors in office, and that nothing is to be changed either at home or abroad. But if that regularity and order had not existed, and a Continental war had been proclaimed —or if the liberation of the negroes had caused an insurrection in the Colonies, as was prophecied by certain Conservative publications--if in Ireland a recurrence of those disturbances had taken place, and that irritation had been extended which before prevailed, what single shoulder, I ask, could suffice for such great responsibility?--( Cheers from the Opposition.) Hardly an old Whig of the old school, notwithstanding the sar castic allusions of the Noble Lord to their fondness for place_ whose hair would not stand on end at the assumption of such power by an individual.—( Cheers from the Opposition.) However, Sir, at last came the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Excite. quer, and in mentioning that Right Hon. Baronet, I am the last person to do injustice either to his consummate talents, or to what I believe to be his high and honest aspirations to be of use to his country. my only ground of difference with him is, that from the principles he has maintained through life, and from the associates with whom he is sur. rounded in office---(Tremendous cheering, which lasted for a consi derable time)—he has put himself in a situation—l do not say (heaven forbid that I should be guilty of the absurdity) of eternal exclusion! from the public service—for who can answer for an altered state of things, and the modification of political circumstances ?—but I do say, that he seems to me, at the present time, to have put himself at vari ance with the political inclinations of his cou ntrymen.—(Cheers.) But, Sir, what we have to deal with are his acts.—(Cheers from the Ministe. rial benches.) What was the Right Hon. Baronet's overt act ? The di , solution of the late Parliament.—(Loud cheers.) Sir, I propose that we should respectfully state to his Majesty our disapprobation of that dissolution. What misdemeanours had that Parliament committed. It cherished a spirit of loyal attachment to the Crown—it had exhi bited a most inviolate adherence to the maintenance of the public credit—it had enforced economy —it had abolished slavery—true, it had manifested a desire to facilitate the admission of Dissenters into the Universities—(Cheers)—and it had shown symptoms of an inclination to accommodate the secular dimensions of the Irish Church to the spiritual exigencies of its flocks.—(Cheers.) But, Sir, that Parliament was dismissed in the middle of the recess, pending no collision with the other House of Parliament, after no hostile vote against any Adminis tration ; and while affairs of the greatest moment were still pending, this Parliament, by the enemies of short Parliaments, was thus unceremo niously dismissed and cashiered.—(Renewed cheers.) Now, have we any precedent for inserting in an Address to the Throne an ex pression of our disapprobation of a preceding dissolution ? I find that when the new Parliament met in the year 1784, the speech from the Throne conveyed an approbation of the preceding dissolution. This was, naturally enough, objected to by Mr. Fox, and was made the sub j .ct of an amendment; but it was stated in reply by Mr. Pitt that he wi.s not for purchasing a hollow unanimity by blinking a great Consti_ tutional question, and passing over the dissolution of the last Parliament, when it was clearly established that it had given the most entire satis faction throughout the kingdom. His Majesty's Ministers have not teen hardy enough on the present occasion to insert in the Speech from Ihe Throne any intimation that the dissolution of the last Parliament has given the most entire satisfaction throughout the country; but all who draw directly the contrary inference have at least as much right to say in 1835, as Mr. Pitt said in 1784, that we are "not for purchasing a hollow unanimity by blinking a great constitutional question, and pass ing over the dissolution of the late Parliament," when we believe that it gave the contrary of satisfaction throughout the kingdom.—(Cheers.) In making these remarks upon the points which come fairly and openly before our notice, I have pursued that line of conduct which I thought myself imperatively called upon to adopt. I have no wish to trespass further upon the time of the House by making comments upon points hieh are not now laid) developed, and must be cautious in allowing t m ,nr almostye pressed s e f d to oimn b itt e it,ede l e A d t od i n ds t ra o eys o , s n t h y a ta a t acrimonious , ct r e w e n fl ee e u c hr t ra l i o vn n eg s in n t n h d e i duals. sn a d my Nob ' ...cisfaction ex_ lerfolcet friend d O tfna thinkingconti u. a s I: a e t e e 60 f a p c e c a o e r e d , in l g a t ls o o:trarmly c , oincide with that it is not the policy of this c^ - ~.untry td adjust its friendship with other e minty;:toewpaevrttrlcuwlharercelrel u sh m o s u ta ld nc b e e s t or tphteedir to po e d iitic w al t c h o e n t s h t t i e . 'll e from . the argument of my Noble Friend em is this--I fear the irtnil'orreeon—enfidence reposed or apparen tly so, in his Majesty's present ad visers by s ome'statesmen on the Continent is exhibited by those who, so ti,s t .a4,. Ei rp t c: i ,fe o air metraabitsBtaeifnientilefrom, have a constant itch for interfering in, the in.. 7 and freer States.—(Cheers.) My Noble Friend bas asked whether the friends of Lord Grey's Government--of whom I profess myself to havt i.teen one of the most steady and sincere—can bear to join ; any project which they, in common with my Noble friend, have often reprobated, and still continue to reprobate? I only ask my Noble Friend to wait until we have incurred the guilt of deser. Lion from our principles before he brands us with his mark.—(Renewed cheering,) Ido not affect to conceal that I think there are perplexing and embarrassing circumstances in which, turn what way we will, we seem to be involved; it is some gratification to me to believe that they are not my own, political friends who have mainly involved us in them --(loud cheers)—and it is a further gratification to feel assured that even under all the difficulties and exciting scenes through which the people of this country have passed, it has been demonstrated that there is neither hostility nor indifference to any of our really valuable, venerable, and moral institutions, to the constitutional Throne, or the honoured person of our Sovereign ; to the maintenance of order, or to the rights of property—or, at least, that none such is to be found in any intelligent or prominent class of the community.—(Loud cheers.) There is, however, a keen and irresistible demand for the re brination of all abuses, and a proportionate call upon all these who wish to represent the opinion of their constituents, to hold fast to the princi. pies which won their original support, and to reassure them that though Parliamthough Aebnnedtdinesiosiomr:hich they trusted may, have been dissolved, and al. rations, of which, upon the whole, they approved, may na lli i s s t sed, those principles still live and flourish ; that they ctrl not asser r t o e mzed ; that they will be imperishably laid down, un. and consistently acted upon.—(Prolonged che: r ing.)under this view, Sir, thinking that something is due from IlnitgeilsYlate Parliament—something to the late Government—much tL. l os esi tt t o ;t t i opioious ,41,0 wishes of our constituents—much to the un changing interests of justice, fidelity, and honour, that, not eager far the station, I have not declined to come forward on this occa .:on.—(l-oud cheering.) i mpg leave the ikstke in the hands of he House, merely adding my htlinble hope that all we plan, and all we execute, may be so over-ruled as to promote time r..al and lasting welfare of the country.—(continued cheering.) I have now, Sir, the honour of proposing an amendment. It is not my wish to omit any portion'of the Address which has been moved by my Noble Friend, inasmuch as I believe it pledg es us nothing to which we can conscientiously object----(A laugh from the Opposition)—but as I think we wish for some more marked demonstration of opinion, I :en desirous to move that after the words " To promote the concord and happiness of my subjects," in the last paragraph but two, these wor be inserted :—(For which see our Leading Article.) The reading of this amendment, which had been frequently inter. rupted by the applause of the House, was followed by loud and gene ral cheering. Mr. BANNERMAN rose to second the amendment. Regretting as he did, the late dissolution, he could not help saying, that so far as hi was personally concerned, he should not care if another took place to morrow, unless, indeed, it might tend to endanger the peace, prosperity, and happiness of the eountry. He trusted therefore that he should not be accused of any factious motives in supporting the amendment of the Noble Lord, and giving any opposition he might think it necessary to offer to the present Government.—(Cheers,) As a Scotch representa tive he would say —and in so doing he felt certain he should be fully borne out by a large majority of his Honourable Colleagues in that House—that his countrymen felt that they owed a deep debt of gratitude to those Englishmen and Irish men who had so nobly fought the battle of Reform, and given to Scotland its present political existence. They would ill repay that debt of gratitude if they did not cordially form an alliance—unholy as the Noble Lord opposite might consider it—for the purpose of endeavouring to procure those reforms which lie (Mr. Bannerman) was quite sure the late Gov( rnment would have granted, and which he was pretty certain the present .Government had no intention whatever of conceding— ',Cheers.) There were, he knew, some members on that (the Opposition; side of the House, who might consider that the amendment savoured rather too much of a milk and water nature. When it was put into hi, (Mr. Bannerman's) hands a few minutes ago, he certainly was under 3 similar impression ; a little reflection, however, convinced him that he was in the wrong, for he considered it the duty of the representarivee of the people to banish all political prejudices, and to consult only the be_ nefit anti welfare of their common country—(Hear.) He felt bound to sae that he could repose no constitutional confidence in his Majestys present Ministry, and he hoped they would excuse this saying that he should he highly gratified to see them dismissed as inceremoniously as their predecessors in office had been.—(Cheers, anti laughter.) There was one point,to which, as a Scotch representative. oe felt peculiarly desirous to call the attention of the House—he meant municipal reforin.—(Hear.) He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) would inform the House during the course of the debate whether he was inclined to vest the election of English corporators in 10/. householders in the same way as in Scotland He could assure the Right Hon. Baronet that nothing short of this alteration would satisfy the country. The amendment having been read, Mr. PEMBERTON proceeded tin address the House. He so entirely ‘oncurreci in the opinion avowed by the Hon. Gentleman who had se_. mtled the amendment, that mt savoured a little of milk and water, that me really should not have felt it necessary to make any observations ninon it, did he not feel, in common, he imagined, with every Hon, slumber resent, that its real purport was not to express particular sets_ ements to the Clown, not to avow particular opinions, but to give the reference to the late Government in opposition to the present. If it , ere made a ground of objection to the Speech from the Throne, that it vas vague and unsatisfactory, he cou Id only say that the amendment was .qually so. Considering the quarter whence that Amendment ems_ tat d, and the individuals by wdom it was supported, he could not but pink thet the topics it omitted to notice were more important than hose on which it expatiated There were individuals on the other ide of the House who were known to entertain opinions with respect to he maintenance or dissolution of the Union at variance with those f the great majority of the House. He should have thought, then, hat those who proposed and supported the Amendment would have endeavoured to guard themselves against the possibility of being sup_ nosed to concur in the opinions entertained by those who aided and as_ :fisted them on the present occasion. The Noble Lo - d (Morpeth) had old them that he was quite at a loss to imagine the causes which had ed to the dissolution of the late Government, and he entirely concur :est inn thebehef expressed by that Noble Lord that all the circumstances Mich led to their dismissal must, sooner or later, be made known. - Ic confessed, however—knowing only what was km wn to the public ;enerally—that he did not feel that utter ignorance of those •auses which the Noble Lord had avowed.—(Hear, hear.) Look. ng to the constitution of that Ministry, and to the sentiments known to be entertained by its members, he (Mr. Pemberton) could not help thinking that that Ministry fell from internal disunion. Independently of even these considerations, when he recollected the evere losses Lord Grey's Government had sustained, and that Lord althorp's removal to the House of Lords occasioned a vacancy in two nost important offices—Chancellor of the Exchequer and Leader of the louse—he could not much wonder that at tire end there were not more :ham two orthree of the original members of Lord Grey's Government . emaining. Of the gentleman who composed that Cabinet he would sish to speak with all possible respect, but he could not do so great a iolence to his own feelings as to say that he thought they possessed esfficient weight either with the house or the country no enable them o carry on the Gos eminent without assistance. Veith reference to the Ormation of the new Government, the Noble L rd (Nlorpeth) had . omplained of the unconstitutional conduct of the Duke of Welling. ton in assuming all the c ffices of State, and from the cheers with which he remark was received, he (Mr. Pemberton) presumed it was sn ac .ordance with the opinions of a large portion of the House.—(Hear, 'mean) It seemed to him that before they came to any conclusion 011 that point, they ought, in fairness, to take into considerations the pecu liar circumstances in which his Grace was placed. He believed that :hen the dismissal of the late Administration took place, there were ; rot a few persons both in Parliament and the country who would have meets well disposed to have seen many of the Members of that Govern_ neat associated with many of the Members of the present, and that an agreement should have been made by which the proceedings of the Movement" party should have been arrested, and that a liberal, but at - he same time Conservative Government, should have been constituted —(Laughter from the Reformers.) But was any opportunity allowed Oy the late Government for effecting that association of parties? Hal eentlemen forgotten the mode in vshich e after that dismissal had tak. dace, it was announced to the public ?—(Hear from the Ministerial tenches.) He should have thought, after Lord Melbourne received his dismissal, a feeling of :delicacy towards his Sovereign, and a come_ leration of what was due to himself, to his colleagues, anti to his country, would have required that some interval should have been al_ lowed during which the King might have had an opportunity of con sulting with hint (Lord Melbourne), and he himself might have had an .qual opportunity of advising his Majesty as to any ulterior measures; Ind that some opportunity might have been afforded tor providing for he public service, so as to have prevented that event of which the No_ ble Mover of the amendment had so loudly complained, and which he mad been pleased to designate as an unconstitutional assumption of all he offices in the State by the Duke of Wellington.—(Cheers from Mo - misters.) But if gentlemen would refer to the public records of that time, they would find that it was on Friday night, the 14th November ast, that Lord Melbourne arrived in town after having received his di ss missal, and that he bore with him a summons to the Duke of Welting_ rn to attend his Majesty, and which summons was not received by the N'oble Duke at Strathfieldsay till the Saturday morning. Lord Mel. :ounce having summoned a Cabinet Council for twelve o'clock on that Say, for the purpose, he (Mr. Pemberton) presumed, to receive from li ne Noble Vise. a communication of the dismissal of his Administration. Now elicit took place in the interval? A manifesto was put forth, not only an. :mounting to the public the dismissal of Ministers, but accompanying that announcement with two statements which he conceived were notoriously intrue.—(Cheers and laughter.) Both of these statements, in his opi. ,ion, were not only untrue, but extremely mischievous in their nature. One of these statements Was, that the dismissal of Lord Melbourne's Administration was owing to the Queen—this was stated in so many s ords. The other statement was equally untrue, and in its tendency still more mischievous—namely, that the Duke of Wellington had al ready been to the King. Now, time author of these statements must, ons their very terms, have been a Cabinet Minister, and being so, he oust have known, that so far from the Duke of Wellington having at `hat time been to the King, he had not even received the summons to at. nd his Majesty.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) I rejoice inn achieving, from what I have seen, that that most indecent and improper enceeding was not adopted with the concurrence of Viscount M,l. murne's Cabinet, but that, on the contrary, many Members of that Cabinet were actually ignorant of the fact of their dismissal, till they read the statement in the nev.spapers. He (Mr, Pemberton) sincerely be. tiered that there was not one among the Hon. Gentlemen whom Inc iw before him, of any shade or colour of opinion, that would, it' called upon under such circumstances, have given any other ad_ :ice to the King than what the Duke of Wellingtcan had done; but of all men in England, was the Duke of Wellington bound, by those still stronger ties which his great and solid services to his country con stituted, to give that advice. He did accept the supreme power in the ,fate ; but for what purpose did he so redeye it ? Why, to hold it as a ; mcred deposit, only until he could place it into those hands in which It vas now intrusted.—(Laughter from the Reformers, and cheers from slinisters.) Such was the conduct of that man who had, nevertheless, men accused of ambitiously aiming to attain the power of a Mayor of rime Palace ;—an accusation made by those mob -orators of the metre s dalis, who, under the good providence of God, owe to him "rat they had now a free country left thcio in which r,n agitate such a question.—(Hear and cheers from the Minns. erial benches.) NN hen he (Mr. Pemberton') looked at the formation of I tine present Government, he could not help confessing that he beheld me or two things upon which he should be glad to have some expla eation. No doubt his Right Honourable Friend, jthe Chancellor of the .:xchequer) would at a fitting time be reas4 to afford that explanation. - nquestionably many names were went from the list of that Admi ..istration which he (Mr. Ppnalsesseee, would gladly have seen there. co man who respected inteartty and honour ins public and private life; tm man who ri,spected the lofty in station,and the still loftier in abilities; no man who was desirous of seeing in a Minister a regard of popular rights and liberal institutions, united with a firm attachment to the institutions of the country in Church end State—an attach_ cent which was hereditary in the h',065 of Derby, could fail to regret the abseuee of such a 11 could fail to fo e l regret th ^- —oe from the present administration— name had not 0' -• the distinguished individual who bore th a t services himself at liberty to render to his country th ose ...tell his great talents so eminently qualified him to disch: drge. _sec no complaint on that score could be c a st u p on his ` _tight Hon. S'riend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer). There wasSio impressment f - nen into the civil service of the State. It was notorious that the Seble Lord (Stanley) was invited to joins the Government, and he (Mr. .teinberton) never supposed or heard that anything either ins the terms -r mode in which that invitation was made, was inconsistent with the :nigh character of the individual who made, or the individual who re. :'used it. Ile could not, however, but believe that in the present state f affairs the Government of this country must rest tor support more upon the character of its measures than upon the Parliamentary talents of its :In embers. It had been said that it was impossible for any Administration, numbers of which were opposed to the Reform Bill, to carry on the gsvernment of this country. He confessed himself at a loss to under. stuid this mode of reasoning. lie was aware that there were some who thought it not an advantage, not a recommendation, but directly the reverse, that the present Government possessed in a greater'degree than the last the confidence of time other branch of the Legislature. He knew ml ere were many who would consider it the strongest recommendation of any measure, that it should produce that collision which should end in the destruction of that branch.—.(Hear, hear.) He would duly add. that it was his most earnest wish, whoever was sinister, that we should, at least, have a permanent and rattled Administration; a Government which would maintains undis solved and indissoluble the unions of the empire ; a Government which would maintain unimpaired the full enjoyment of all the constitutional dr.vileges of King, Lords, and Commons ; a Government which, while it carried on improvement with a firm and steady hand through the various establishments, civil and ecclesiastical, in the country, would at time same time maintain order, and enforce the aothority of the laws, t) bout which order could not exist, nor could there be encouragement to industry or protection to prosperity.—(Cheers.) Mr. HWART most cordially agreed with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just - addressed the House, that it was impossible for any Government to continue long in power that would not conduct the public affairs in accordance with the principles of Reform ; and he most oncerely united with him in thinking that the Government of this country must in future be open to men of all parties. lie was much estonished that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, himself a ! awyer, should have so manifestly violated one doctrine of the British law, by having presumed a man to be guilty before he was tried. "1 he Hon. and Learned Gentleman made that presumption against the eitehourne Administration. He said it contained elements of difference, :arid that it was on that ground just and right to dissolve it. The Hon. d Learned Gentleman had also alluded to differences of opinion ..,.isting on the opposition side of the House. But much differences wore inseparable from all opposition : nor did ;le think that tine present .mlinistry were the most harmonious Cabinet that ever existed, although t at seemed to tee a sine qua nun with the Hons. and Learned Gentle. man in the construction of an opposition ; for were not souse of its mem. " Sirenum votes et Circes pocula nosti." He trusted that they would decline accepting the flattering draught with which his Noble Friend and the Honourable and Learned Gentle man had so endeavoured to entrap their senses. It had been said that it was impossible that the House could determine on municipal reform before the report of the Commissioners bad been received. But the Ministers might have stated the principles of that Reform. The Right Honourable Baronet might have so far raised the veil of mystery, as to have told the House that he would give municipal reform on the princis pies of representation and of publicity, without which it was impossible that any Reform could subsist. It had also been stated that the present Administration had adopted Earl Grey's measures for the relief of the Dissenters; but that was most unfortunate, for if any one thing did a more decided injury to Earl Grey's Government than another, it was because the Bills brought in relating to the Dissenters were not ade. quate to effect their objects, for this irresistible reason —that they were not just. He lamented that his Noble Colleague should have been reduced to the necessity of seeking for such an apology for the Speech from the Throne as he did. His (Mr. Ewart's) Noble Colleague had stated that hi 3 opinions had been approved of by a large constituency, at least that the result of their votes had been much in his favour. The Noble Lord had unquestionably had a majority, but it was a majority of vistas, and not of public voices. —(Cheers.) Mr. RICHARDS claimed the indulgence of the House while he stated the ground of his vote in favour of the Address.—(Laughter.) In saying that he would vote for the Address, he did not mean to say that he very widely differed from the Noble ',old who proposed the amend. ment.—(Laughter from the Reformers.) He, however, begged to say, that circumstances altered cases. Did he not see, and that undoubtedly arising from circumstances—(laughter) — a sort of millenium, where the lion and the lamb were lying down together ?—(Lotel laughter and cheers.) The question at this moment most deserving the attention of that House was, what would be the consequence of rejecting the Ads dress, and adopting the Amendment He saw that the object of the Amendment was, if possible, to occasion the dismissal of his Majesty': Government.—(Cheers from the Opposition, echoed back by the Minis. ters.) Feeling that such dismissal, in the present'state of political par ties, would be injurious in the highest degree, he came forward in spite of obloquy to oppose that Amendment. He had said that circum stances altered cases—(laughter; —:end although the expression might create a smile among Hots. Gentlemen, yet he could not forget that many whom he now saw were not long ago in political hostility towards each other. He did not censure them for being now in harmonious, concord—(laughter) —but he belonged to no party—Whig nor Tory ; but to his country; and he felt bound to act in that manner which would best conduce to the happiness and safety of the people. No man would ocery that the present Ministry was composed of men of the highest, honesty, integrity, and talent. Mr. GROTE could not consent, Reformer as he was, to look for a Ministry in the ranks of those who were and ever had been much more opposed to Reform than any other party of their day. He could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman, that carrying the amendment would contribute to the removal of the present Ministers. But having often expressed regret at the dismissal of Len! Melbourne's Administration, and having, throughout a large constituency, met with an uniformity of sympathy, with that feeling he could not refrain from expresssing it in this House, and from adding, without meatiieg any discourtesy, that if his vote would Isaac the effect of removing the present Governmene he soould consider it an additional reason ton giving it.—(Cheersd The .amendment went to this. It complained that the Melbourn e dg id i ed . d teatime which had the confid ence o f t h e country, and several reforms, had beets dismissed, and that therefie contemplated in se the country likely to be disappointed of those improvements 'arhich were so ardently was desired. The second Ref orme d Parliament, should certainly. and he hoped would, go at le as t as f ar i n i ts desire for Reform as the first Reformed Parliament.—(Cries Hear, hear, hear.) This was a Speech, however, which, if coining, if it had come, from a Ministry in which he (Mr. Grote) had the fullest confidence, would not give him satisfaction ; but coming as it did from a Ministry in which he had no confidence at all, was still more to be objected to. Its defects really needed to be supplied tiy an amendment at least as full and as strong as that proposed by the Noble Lord, and lie had no hesitation in saying that he himself would be inclined to make the amendment still fuller and stronger.—(Cheers.) lie could not but be surprised at the line of argument pursued by the Noble Lord, the member for Liverpool, in comparing Earl Grey's Administration to the present Government in his opinion the Government of Lord Grey was never equalled by any Goverment which prec e d e d i t. — (Hear, hear.) It was the first Admi nistration which openly approved of and acted upon the principle of re form. It was the first Government which looked into our institutions for the purpose of improving them, and never touched them but it left them better than it found them. The Noble Lord who moved the adoption of the Address, has been pleased to make several re marks as to the ardent spirits now abroad, and the restless and morbid desire of change which existed among the people He (Mr. Grote), for his part, was in daily intercourse with a large por tion of the numerous constituency' which he had the honour to repre sent, as well as with others throughout the country, and Ise could not discover any such m or bid d esire for change amond, the people.—(H ear, hear.) But th oug h th ere was no morbid desire, for change, he acknow !edged that he found a ve. y strong wish fe e the improvement of the in stitutions of the co u n t ry to exist airing them.—(Cheers.) Th ere was. sso wish, however, to get rid of the valuable parts of our institutions. There was nothing in their wishes which menaced the stability of the social order.—(Hear, hear.) There was nothing inconsistent with the continuance of all parts of the law, and all the restraints which the well regulation of the community require.—(Hear, hear.) Who. ever asserted the contrary was guilty of calumny upon the body of the people. Ile could not but think that those who introduced the name of the Monarch into a discussion of this nature, and who, when they were asked to defend the dismissal of a ministry whiels mid had the confidence of the Parliament and of the ementry, answered by a reference to the King's prerogative, acted in. judiciously; and, indeed, a measure which requires; to be defended upon such a ground must be injudicious.—(Haa, hear.) Of this, at all events lie was sure, that if all changes iP. the King's Minis ters were to be answered by referring to the Peerogative of the King, questioned. He had little. the prerogative itself would soon come to be more to add, but that he would give hi', vote and cordial support to the amendment.—(Cheers.] Mr. GLADSTONE coldd not believe that the amendment could be successful; but it' were, and if it were followed by St;ifl stronger re. solutions leC la".:icry of the want of confidence which, th e Hou se f e lt in hid 11 ...ajesty's present Ministers, what would oil these resolutions Mule to? If the late Government were to return to power, who would support them i Certainly not the Hon. Gentleman on that (the Ministerial) side of the House.—(Cries of " No, no," and a laugh)- els a very few on the other side--Hear, hear)—and as to their being atoported by the people, he was satisfied that would not be the case—at least, certainly not by the rational part of the community—while they acted upon principles which had been declared by an Honourable - stember to be incompatible with the existence of the Monarchy. They had repeatedly been told, in the course of the debate, that the Melbcurne Administration was di sm i sse d without a fair trial. They had been tried on the question o f I r i s h t i t h es ; the Coercion Illill e—(Loud cries of No, no !" and laughter)—and these were quite sufficient for the country ; and he begged the House to remember, that many who now sat on the Opposition benches had declared that they had no confidence in the late, Government. Mr. POULTEIt observed, that without the slightest personal hostilA e 0 the present Administration, and without even a personal acqu 4.1110ce oce with th e mem b ers of the last, he was at a loss to and 11 sw the carr yi ng i nto effect just measures of hidprovementerstand be could safely intrust e d to those who had ir dgaidably de. Glared themselves the s t rong and conscientious ens benefits to be re_ o f reform • ---,Cheers.) Hu could on l y j udge of the probable c_ived by the country f r om it s present Ministry, by recollections of the rm past ; he could n o t bl o t out from his memory the language used sinc e the passing of the Refo Bill, that it was an been issued to p rocure that act which h a d t h rown mere physical f orce. down the great barrier against the predomins„ nee o f :s were true, it oug h t to be The Honourable Memb er observed, if chi ?el repeeled. Every comm i ss i on which le specific information which is so n stigulatizeOocessary to prec e d e i mportant legisla. as unconstitution a l an d arbitrary, tive changes, had b e and compared with the nets of despotic Sovereigns, and the jurisdic tion of the Star Chamber—(H.ear, hear) --and, as such, worthy only to be resisted. Every proposition flowing from the Reform Bill had met with thesame reception, He observed, that the admission of Dissenters to Ilse Universities, which many enlightened and good men warmly sup. ported, was most powerfully resisted here, and defeated elsewhere. l'he seine ultimate fate attended the Bill for the settlement of the time question in Ireland upon a fair and equitable basis. He eas. served that this had been our experience; this was the key Which NV,tl to unlock the prospects of futurity, and from which aloSie we coulil form the remotest idea of the probable conduct of the existing Administration. The Honourable Member observed, that ' hese were the Ministers who were most likely to acknowledge t(aat a man whose single vote might be the means of returning tveo memb ers t o that House, ought to have some concern in the melsdcipal government of the city or town in which he lived—(Cheers.) These were the melt who were to see, under the influence of a new litedit, the vast benefits likely to be conferred on religion by a commutation of tithes—(Hear, hear)--by a just law of pluralities—(Hear) —by a deliberate and wise revision of the whole temporal condition. anti state of the Archbishops and Bishops of this country—(Heard —by putting an end to translations, commendams, and the different' s :, between a good and bad Bishopric— :toil by the application, se 10.;,g as the present state of religious opinion may continue, of the E Cdeassastical sinecures of lieland to some great nstienal purposeeiseud cheers.) But if t h e present Ministers were to do all that thed promised, was it not wonderful that every thing these great Ite 'ermers proposed should spring not from any one great principle of P.. ..:mrm, but merely from the possession of office--(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He did not mean to compare the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir R. Peel) to any prince of darkness; but he could not hely reminding the House of an old couplet— " When the devil was sick, the devil a saint would be; When the devil got well, the devil a saint was he." —(Cheers and laughter.) It was a truly singular feature in the present crisis of public affairs that a large portion of the most distinguished per sons in this kingdom were strongly opposed to that system and course of public measures, of which others, equally honourable and good. felt themselves bound to be the wannest and the firmest supporters. He could only attribute this unfortunate state of things to the fear of imaginary dangers, which the ultimate issue of these events would ;,rove to have been: without foundation. Without waiting for the event, it might have been foreseen a priori that the age which. would be most remarkable for the spirit of just improvement would also be remarkable for some extravagant speculations.—(Elear.heaeo When the human mind was excited, it was difficult in all instep ces to keep it within due bounds. It was a curse incident to the most beneficial changes, that such changes would be supported an ad vocated by those who in every large and populous communicy were always to be found, the unprincipled and desperate; he would 'not be de. terred by such considerations—he would put himself upon the intelli gent portion of a reflecting people—( Hear, hear)—he wooed go forward boldly—we were far, very far indeed, from the limits of lemmas) improve. orient, whose centre was everywhere, and whose eirceenference recedes indefinitely as mankind ad vances—( Hear, hear.) It this led to destruct tints, lie would take Isis share of the punishment—il it led to prosperity, he would claim his share of this result : he supported these principles in that temper and.'spirit in which he should wish to be in the last moments of his life--(Loud cheers.) Mr. TREVOR said, that he never could give his consent to Use Amendment. It was not a question as to policy which was involved in. it : the proposition was simply this, that . without regard to their policy, they were determined, at all hazards, to drive the present ministers from their seats—(cries of" No, no.") The Hon. Member for Middle. sex had said, that the late Government owed its principal support to the Right Hon. Baronet now at the head of the Government. Its. HUME—(-tear, hear.)—When doing mischief —(lsoud laughtesr) Mr. TREVOR— Well, he should like to know it the Right 'dons Baronet: would be one of those who would place himself in the ranks of their supporters i f they wet: recalled. For his own part be b.ati little doubt, that if Ministers were true to the principles contaireee in th e Speech, if they pursued a plaid, straight forward, and !stillest course, hey would gain strength iss the country day by day. Colonel SIBTHORPE said that it was quite time to 'get rid of the late elinistry, when they had been tor two years the laseghing-stock of the country. He said this without any political bias, for he maintained that ;se was no party man.—(A 1 ugh.) He could rot forget the language which had been used by a lawyer and a Judg e in an address to his con stituents—he alluded to the language used by the Hon. and Learned Member for the Tower hamlets. — (hear, hear.) If the people of Eng-