The Sun. — London, England, 1848-05-09 00:00:00

LAW TIVTELLIGENCE. VICE CHAACERY..'iIay, 8. (Before the Vick. CHANCELLOR of ENGLAND.) ATTORNET-Ct.NERAL WLSON. The arguments in this case, which have already oc cupied the Covert four days, were resumed to-day. The case came before the C ourt u p on an information relating to the long-contested case with respect to Lady Hewley's charity, which has been, as our readers are doubtless aware, the source of so much difference between the various bodies of Dissenters from the Church of Eng land. It will doubtless be remembered that in the case of the Attorney-General v. Shore, the Unitarians laid claim to the charity property, and their claims h av ing been set aside, the Baptists, the Inde tendents, and the Dissenting Presbyterians claimed the property. The case will probably occupy several days yet, but it may not be improper at the present moment to state how the case now stands. In the former proceedings in the cause, which was ulti mately decided in the House of Lords, the decisions were unanimous against the claims of the Unitarians, who had intruded into the charity; and that result led to an Act of Parliament, which quieted the claims of parties who should hereafter be, under similar circumstances, of long possession notwithstanding a gradual departure from the tenets of the founder. But the Act did not touch the present case, which was pending at the time when the Act was introduced. The Unitarians being excluded from the charity, the question remained entirely open as to which of the different classes of what are sometimes called orthodox Dissenters were admissible. The original relators were of the class of Independents, and succeeded in driving out the Unitarians. The effect of that decision was an order to remove the Unitarian trustees, and a reference to the Master to appoint new trustees. The parties who then commenced the new war between themselves were the In dependents and the Scotch Kirk in England, and a branch which separated from it in 1733, called the Secession Kirk. These two latter parties attempted to show that the foundresa was a Presbyterian on the model of the Scotch Presbyterians, and not an Independent. All the parties were allowed by an order of the present Lord Chancellor to go before the Master on the reference. The Master made his report in 1837, which was to the effect that out of two classes of seven grand trustees and seven sub trustees he appointed of each class two from the repre sentatives of the Kirk, two from the Secessionists, and three from the Independents. In 1843 the case was brought before this Court upon exceptions to the report. But his Honour overruled the exceptions. The cause was now brought to a hearing, and the same question which was debated, on the exceptions was raised more formally. The trust was created in the year 1707. The estates were given by Lady Hewley, who was the widow of a bencher of Gray's Inn and a Dissenter, "for the beneSt of poor and godly preachers of Christ's Holy Gospel," and for poor and godly widows of such poor and godly preachers, and for promoting the preaching of Christ's Holy Gospel in poor places, and for the education of young men intended for the ministry, and that York and the four northern counties should have the preference, and a hospital was to be founded at York. Mr. Bethell and Mr. Chandless, who appeared as counsel for the promoters (the Independents), con tended, in opening the case several days since, that the members of the Scotch Kirk in England, or ministers licensed in Scotland, and having chapels in England, were not entitled. That Scotch Presbyterians were not within the Acts of Uniformity nor the Toleration Act, which referred to them; and that the Independents, Baptists, and Presbyterians of Lady Hewley's time were represented by the class now called Independents. That the name of Presbyterians had grown into dis repute, on account of the profession by many of that body of Socinian principles, and hence had almost disappeared, and that of Independents now prevailed in its stead. The persons: who now came forward ,as of the Scotch or Secession Kirk in England were, in fact, members of the Church of Scotland, which claimed and exercised jurisdiction over them, and they, the mem bers of' a great national Church, would disclaim the title of D i ssenter s, and would separate themselves alto gether from the great body of English Dissenters, but that it was supposed something was to be gained by, the use of the name on this occasion. Mr. Stuart, Mr. Bolt, and Mr. Bacon, on subsequent days, followed on the behalf of parties who had a common interest with the relators, and to-day Mr. Swanston, with whom was Mr. James Parker and Mr. Malins, opened the case of the defendants, the Dis senting Presbyterians. The arguments of the Learned Counsel occupied the Court the whole day. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, May 8. HILTON V. LORD GRANVILLE. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) After hearing Counsel on both sides, the Court reserved its decision. The case will go to a Court of Error. BAIL COURT, May S. (Sittings in Banco, before Mr. Justice ERIE.) IN RE CHARLES NORVAL. Mr. PARRY moved for a rule nisi, calling upon the Judge of the County Court of Lambeth to show cause why a writ of prohibition should not issue, to restrain him from issuing his warrant in a case where Mr. Norval was the defendant. By the 122 d section of the County Court Act power was given to the judge to assist landlords to recover possession of small tenements, where the rent did not amount to 501., and where the tenant had made default in payment of the rent. The section pro vided that " upon proof " of the non-payment the Judge should be at liberty to issue his warrant to give the landlord possession. Ia this case the defendant held tinder. an agreement, but, nevertheless, the Judge of the County Court decided against him. The Judge, however, did not issue his warrant within a reasonable time after the decision; and, on behalf of Mr. Norval, it was contend , e that he ought now to be prohibited from issuing it at all. Mr. Justice ERLE said the application was premature. The issuing of the warrant might now be illegal, and it was not the practice of the Court to issue orders to re strain parties from committing illegal acts, until the ille gality had ' actually commenced. It would be time enough to apply to the court, when the judge had issued his warrant. Rule refused. WALKER AND OTHICRS V. DANVEY AND OTHERS. Mr. PEARSON moved for a rule nisi, calling upon the Judge of the County Court of Middlesex, to show cause why a writ -of prohibition should not issue to restrai❑ the plaintiffs from - pmceeding further in the case. The Court was 'aware' that the 58th section of the County Courts Actlitovided that the judge of any of these courts could not have jurisdiction in any case where the title to corporeal or incorporeal property was involved. Now in this case the defendant rented three houses in Chelsea, which the late Mr. J. Sickery of tlte same place left by his last will and testament to Mrs. Jane Feary, and by the same will he bequeathed the same property to the plaintiff in trust for Mrs. Jane Feary. Subse quently to the death of the testator the rents were paid to Mrs. Feary, with the consent of the plaintiffs, but Mrs. Feary had since died, and the plaintiffs demanded that the rent should be paid to them. The executors of Mrs. Peary also setup a claim under the will of Mr. Sickery, and the result was that the matter was carried into the County Court, and a decision was made to the effect that the rent ought to be paid to the plaintiffs. The Act, however, took the case out of the jurisdiction of the County Court, and as the defendants might possibly be called upon to pay the rent twice over, they wished to have all further proceedings in the County Court stopped, and the matter carried to a higher tribunal. Rule nisi. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MANSIO 1 N-1 - 10U RKIIIRKABLE CASE OP FORGE ISE Tivo young men, named John Clarke and James , inille. they Bradbury, were charged custody of John brought before the Lord Mayor , with having and Daniel Forrester, the officers, uttered two forged cheques upon the t ela house of td., and banking house John Lubbock and Co., one for 434/. 16s the other for 3711. is. 4d. The prisoners • skilful management, caught with almost the wer w e 'h o b l y e amount of the proceeds of the cheques in t heir pos session. Ms. Mullens, of the firm of Bush and Mullens, soli c itors to the Committee of Bankers for proteetion against Forgeries and Frauds, attended for the prose cution. The prisoner, having but just landed from the C on . tinent, were not provided with legal assistance, but they intimated that upon the next examination they would produce materials of defence. Mr. Mullens—l accuse the two prisoners of having been concerned in both forgeries, which were uttered under rather extraordinary circumstances. In then case of the cheque for 4341. 16s. B d., a person named Joph Thornet was made the instrument by which the amount was received at the banking-house. It appeared that on the 22d of April it was presented by Thornet at the counter, and paid to him, he having received it from a person to whom he became known through the medium of an advertisement. Thornet had previously advertised in the Times newspaper for a situation, and on the fol lowing day inquiry was made for him by an individual who afterwards bad several interviews with him, and who told him it was for another person's service he was re quired. In the course of the communications which ThornPet , htce, the person who was negotiating with and who led that unsus p e cting party to be• h eve that thee could be trusted engagement was perfect, asked him whether Thornet said t;;usted with a cheque to get cashed. e should faithfully execute the order, and the as office inthenegotiato r, who made it appear as if he had street, handed a ae t India Chambers, in chequeLeadenhall adfor 434/. and Co. to Thornet, mo n n 16s. Bd. upon Lubbock gave to him at the same time a bill case to put th e the banking-house, haeYehiend. a st r a p t ha g Thornet, in the way to to make a mistake in a turn, and asked er the right direction. The prisoner, Clarke, e t that he was himself goin t g came up, and saying Mansion House-street, ewou in l the direction towards place, and he accordingly did so d willingly point out the sented, and at once paid in foul. The cheque was pre and upon Thornet's return into the notes and cash, who asked him whether he had done his he saw Clarke, when he replied in the affirmative d r his business, and net then took the money to the pegrazpeared. Thor. ployed him, and who gave him half-a n - who had em. trouble, and promised to write whe hiser n for his should arrive in town. At Brussels, Ti ciarkn was s ure master taken into custody by the police, in company with Bradbury, bank-notes which had been paid at Lubbock's, and th e for the cheque were found upon both of them. With regPectt° the forged cheque for 37 11 . 7 s. 4 d. , the circumstances were similar. Timothy New bound ad v ertised for the sit uation of servant on the 18th of April , in the Times, and d ation was called upon by a person, who engaged with him for th e to service of a gentleman, and made an appointm ent meet him at the C us t o m-house. Upon Newbounu's ar rival at the Custom-house, he saw the gentleman wh o made the appointment, and w h o , after some eonversa tion, said he had a ship lying off, which he could not get in till the unties were paid, and N. whennd undertook to get a cfn-qii- cl-1 - I,(i a: Lutio( ck's ti the purpose. Upon returning to the Custom-house, Newbound paid three 1001. notes, a 50/. note, and 211. 7s. 4d. in cash, to the man who had thus employed him, and who appointed to meet him at Hatchett's Hotel, in Piccadilly, to confirm the engagement ; met him accord ingly, gave him ten shillings, and appointed to meet him again, but did not ke, p his word in the last in stance. In the latter, as well as the former, the proceeds of the forgery were found upon the two prisoners. Mr. Mullens said, it could be proved that the plate from which the cheques were struck off was a forgery, as well as the signatures to the cheques. Mr. Charles C. Lawrence, clerk to Sir W. Lubbock and Co.'s banking-house, in Mansion-house-street, said Messrs. T. and W. Hawes keep an account with us. On Saturday, the 22d of April, the cheque produced for 3711. 7s. 4d., purporting to be drawn in their names was presented at the counter, and I paid it in three 1001. notes, dated 10th of January, 1848, and numbered seve rally 43,226, 45,307, and 36,137, a 501. note No. 4,253, date 23d of December,-1842, of the Portsmouth Bank, and cash 21/. 7s. 4d. From circumstances which have since come to my knowledge, I believe the signature to be decidedly a forgery. Mr. Richard Mullens, of the firm of Bush and Mul lens, solicitors for the prosecution, said, I was present at Brussels on Thursday last, the 4th instant, when the prisoner Clarke was examined by the police magistrate there. I heard him state that the bank note for 50/. (No. 4,253) produced was found on his person in a pocket in the inside of his flannel waistcoat, worn next to his skin, at the time he was taken in custody by the police in Brussels. I also was present on the same day when James Henry Bradbury, the other honer,poe was examined before the sama magistrate. I he Bradbury state that two 100/. notes (Nos. 43,226 and 36,137, dates 10th January, 1848,) had been changed by him at Brussels on Tuesday, the 25th of April. Brad bury selected these notes from several others_th•Hen Blyriandg. before him, and pointed to the w ritin g , bury, Brighton," written on the backs ink, aud he stated that these notes and others were givento hi b m on Saturday, the 22d of April, on the quay at Dover, y , a Mr. Bullock, of 114, Yardley-street, near the King road, Chelsea. Chelsea. Mr. Mullens said he had no further evidence to pro duce upon the present occasion. The LORD MOTOR --Do the prisoners wish to sa y anything? Clarke — N ot at present, my lord. It is m y intention to employ a solicitor. Bradbury said—l also wish to employ a soli c it or , b ut do not wish to say anything now. Remanded. MARLBOROUGH-STREET. stealingaced before from Mary Ann Sheard, Sophia Gamest, and I sa b e ll a H y d e i a t y h Pl three notorious thieves, emfor ewr charged ereyester w d A.Nfirrs..ll Sarah inghamS; tb enshott a purse, containing two so vereig ns and seven s hillin g s, an d the two latter charged, on suspicion, with being concerned in stealing the same. James Hall, footman in the s erv i ce o f Sir James Roe, 96, Piccadilly, said, on Saturday afternoon, about four o'clock, he was at 238, Regent-street, a pri soner Sheard standing outside the i nd saw shop. p.W the itn es go up waotkcihnegd in the e ands her to a lady who was lo shop-window, and put her hand into the lady's pocket. The prisoner then looked round, and seeing that witness was observint , her, ran away. Witness then we n t up to the lady and asked her if she . had lost an y t hi ng ? The lady felt in her pocket, and said that she had lost her purse. Witness then told the lady what he had seem, and went in pursuit of the pri soner, whom he found near Maddox-street, with the purse in her possession. He detained her till a consta ble arrived, when he gave her in charge. Mrs. Sarah Sparshott identified the purse produced as her property. Andrews, 116 C, said he took the prisoner Sheard into custody, and on their way to the station she said that the other two prisoners were as much in it as she was, and that Hyde had taken the purse and gave it to her. He went in search of the other prisoners, and found them concealed in the coal-cellar of a public-house in Maddox street. He then took them into custody. The prisoners Gamett and Hyde denied all knowledge of Sheard, and protested they had never seen her before. Mr. BINGHAM said he should commit Sheard for trial, but as there was no legal evidence against the other two, he should give them one more chance - by discharging them. ArrEstrrzn SUICIDE.—Henry Dutton, a poor half starved sailor, residing at No. 35, St. Clement's-lane, was charged before Mr. Bingham with having attempted to commit suicide, by jumping into the Serpentine in Hyde-park. Godfrey, the deputy superintendent of the Royal Humane Society, said, on Saturday, about one o'clock in the afternoon, he saw the prisoner jump from the bridge into the water. He imme diately rowed to the spot and dragged him out in a state of great exhaustion, and took him to the receiving-house and placed him in a warm bath. NV hen he recovered himself he told witness that he had a wife and four children, who, with himself, were in great distress and starving. He also said that he was tired of his life, and had resorted to the above means to get rid of all his troubles. Mr. BINGHAM in the most kind and feeling manner addressed the prisoner on the enormity of the offence, which he said was a most cowardly way r,of getting rid of trouble, arid only resorted to by those who had not the moral courage to bear up against difficulties and misfortune. tie would now discharge him, providing he (prisoner) would promise not to repeat the offence. The prisoner's brother here came forward, and under took to take care the prisoner did not attempt the same again. Mr. BINGHAM then discharged him. RAILWAY COMMITTEES. GROUP XIV. This Group re-assembled yesterday in Committee Room No. 30; Mr. Eliot Yorke in the chair. EXETER, YEOVIL, AND DORCHESTER BRA NCHES. Mr. D. HILL opened the case for the promoters of this Bill, which, after a very severe contest, was passed by a Committee of the House of Commons last session, but the struggle between the two contending parties, the South-Western and the Great Western Companies, was protracted till so late a period that there was not time to carry it into the Lords. The Bill was to authorise the construction of a line, on the narrow gauge, from Salisbury through Yeovil to Exeter, with branches t o Bridport and Shaftesbury. The merits of the scheme were fully gone into last year, and ultimately established to the satisfaction of the Com mittee; and it was, therefore, not intended to re-open the general case. The opposition, he understo9d, was to be directed against the subscription contracts. It was contended by the opposing petitioners that the subscrip tion contract was invalid, but it would be proved beyond all question that there was no ground for such an allegation; and he was sure the Committee, in the end, would have no difficulty in confirming the decision come to last year. _ _ _ The COMMITTEE decided that they would not require the promoters to substantiate their subscription con tracts, but throw the onus of proving their informality upon the opposing petitioners. Mr. KEATING then addressed the Committee on behalf of the petitioners, contending that the subscription con tracts did not bear the names of bona fide subscribers. The COMMITTEE did not think these objections in any way detracted from the genuineness of the contracts, and directed the Learned Counsel to confine his attention to the objections he had to urge against individual sub scribers. The petitioners not being prepared to go into these objections, The COMMITTEE consented to adjourn till Wednesday. GENERAL COMMITTEE OF ELECTIONS. The members of the General Committee of Elections met yesterday afternoon, and appointed the following mem bers to try the merits of the petition presented against the return for Longford:—Lord Henry Bentinek, Mr. E. C.. Slaney, Mr. William H. Pole Carew, Mr. Thomas E. Eleadlam, with Mr. Bouverie for their chairman. The Committee will be sworn to-day, and com mence its labours on Wednesday. NATIONAL ASSEMBLY. The on that the ys.usbnscarlir AFTERNOON SITTING. subscription, was t o i p o o n s s iti t o o n t o h f e th c e h o i r s g rt a i n st iza f t u i n on d c s o h m o m ul i d tte b e e , g c a a v r e ried by a large majority. voluntar Mr. E. O l ,l ELI that there should be no stated amount of course of conduct the rtice of a motion stating what the people to pursue. other things, it advised „s‘sniembly deessed it necessary for them not to support any Pao jets not not to pay any movement which did not fully embrace the PeopielsiclCh deal with any but a Chartist taxes, poor -rates, or tithes eable articles; and to supply of any but a Chartist, nor to ' ''' maintenance exercise to rent a house tradesman ; to abstain from the use o f a e: l c a is . to convert their paper securities into themselves with arms, in order that they their constitutional rights, and for the mode o f of peace, law, and order. A long discussion then . followed upon the electing a general executive of five . persons,. as recom mended in the report of the organiz: mon committee, a n d also upon other points in the report,. The Assembly then adjourned. FOREIGN society was SAILOI :S i SOCIETY.—Yes terdayBRITISII held at the Londn r es ided. sogfa this st r e s The Ffrec retary read the fif eveninAgNDthe Tananveuranl,mßeeisthinogv W. Wire, teen , -eipts for the last year The total re ~ interesting details. ' e p portof the cOmniitt ee. It was full of th ann E ua 6 l q r . were 2,966/. 195.; to 468/. more than it society with liabilities am. the e o x u p n en ti d n i g t are, however, left the lene-thened remarks, as inten tion to occupy their time by a f u o i: He had, how itself. had on band. The Chairman sa• id it was not his the report spoke sufficiently ever, to express his deepr e gr et been prevented h lt bad not able to be present, and that . men[, for he knew being present by a previous enga . ;T. all th at the Lord Mayor was that his Lordship took a great i rat rest in the societ y . He c ongratu l ate d t h e soc i ety on tho i ncreased attendance at their meeting this year. The me, , t 4; wa s ng addressed by the R everen d s G. Smith, J. Burn ett, N.Boyer, and M. Davis, and by Messrs. Payne and Garland. _ TIIR LA ii LATE EXTENSIVE C ON FLAG IRATION ON OL. nortN-rum..—Yesterday Mr. Willis m Payne and a respectable ju r y assembled at the Cit y Arms, Holborn bridge, f or the purpose of inquiring into the circum stances connected with the fire w' iich broke out on Holborn-hill last V • - rid 4 Y, and whi c h d es troyed the pre mises occupi e d severally by Mr. Winter, a t a il or; an d Mr. P eaty, a tea-dealer ; Mr, SI LAnner, a tobacconist. After examining several witn verdiet " That there was es!es, . the jury returned a , fire originated." uo evide. ac e) t o p rove h ow the IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. li9usE OF LORDS, Mar, s. Their Lordship, assemb d at Five o'clock. The Earl of STRAFFORD, at the request of the Earl of Derby, presented a petition from Liverpool and Manchester in favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill; also, petitions from Clapham, and various places in \Vales, with a similar prayer. Lord CAMPBELL presented an immense number of petitions from various places with a similar prayer; also, several petitions in favour of legalizing the Society of Odd Fellows. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented several petitions from various Presbyteries in Scotland against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. Lord DACRE presented several petitions in favour of the measure. The Earl of EGLINTON presented several peti tions against the measure ; also, a petition from the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow against any alter ation in the navigation-laws. JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL. In reply to a question from Lord STANLEY, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE fixed the second reading of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill for Thursday, the 25th, on the understanding that it should not be postponed beyond that day. LAW REFORM. Lord BROUGHAM would then bring forward his motion on the administration of the law on Friday, theo Thea 12th. motion Earl f of e uf f LGoßv g reffdAaaD : :nfilrNai ABERDEENued. lt had mightnev er i,e before postponed, heard but not advanced. ahta hnni sediidNol The gL6ro dtevb h E ael Beroaanaßnrnren ll otice for the 12th for his motion on the d u i t g ah g dd e ofr s opa t rwt e d tt hhteeh his a i motiontt suggestionhh .e N Noble forol ef ie g s ° w h h t ß o u noticewithdraw Friend, and withdraw his former notice, subject. CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS BILL. Lord LYNDHURST asked if his Noble and Learned Friend opposite intended to proceed with his Criminal Proceedings Bill on the 12th ? Lord CAMPBELL said it was his intention to proceed with that Bill on Friday next. PETITION S. Lord BEAUMONT presented several petitions from various places in favour of the Jewish Disabili ties Removal Bill. The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S presented a peti tion from the students of Lampeter College in favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. Lord KINNAIRD presented several petitions from various places to the same effect. The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented several petitions against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. Lord STANLEY said he must detain their Lordships for a short time whilst he referred to the subject of dis cussion on Friday night last. Her Majesty's Ministers had since laid on the table of their Lordships' House f t e h r e e n correspondence I t i o e which he h no intention ten referred of submittinge a motion on the subject, but, having perused that corre spondence, he could not refrain from stating the im pression which it had produced on his mind. The Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) seemed to have been labouring under a singular error the other day in attributing the publication of the letter from the Secretary of Foreign Affairs to Mr. Bulwer to a French newspaper, and in stating that he did not know how that paper got hold of the document, a most important part of which it had sup pressed. Now, it appeared from the statement of that newspaper itself that the first time it got into its columns was the 24th of April; whilst the Duke of Sotomayor had complained of its appearing in a Spanish paper on the 10th of that month. Upon looking at the letter itself, as it was now printed, he thought it had not been mutilated. The communication of the Noble Viscount (Palmerston), which commenced the correspondence, began by saying, " I have to instruct you to recommend earnestly to the Spanish Government, and to the Queen-Mother, if you should have an opportunity of doing so, the adoption of a legal and constitutional course," &c. Now, it ap peared to him, inasmuch as Mr. Bulwer could easily have an opportunity of communicating to the Spanish Government the Noble Viscount's dispatch, but might not be able to do so to the Queen-Mother, that the words "if you should have an opportunity of doing so," applied exclusively to the latter, and had no reference to the Spanish Goverement.—(Hear, hear.) It appeared to him by this correspondence, first of all, that there was a great difference of opinion between the British Minister in Spain and the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in this country; and secondly, that there was a still wider difference between the sentiments of the Noble Viscount and his colleagues. The reply of the Duke of Sotomayor stated that he did not understand what the letter meant by recommending the adoption of a legal and constitutional course, because at the time it was written an emeute had not taken place, sad the Spanish Ministers were following a strietly con stitutional mode of government. What was the answer of Mr. Bulwer? He admitted the justice of the observation: he acknowledged that the com munication of the Noble Viscount was made before the Government had taken any step of an arbitrary cha racter, but said it was intended to refer to a state of things which might arise. The Noble Viscount, how ever, had not said anything about a state of things which might arise; he had given his instruction with reference to the actual, and not the future, state of things. Mr. Bulwer was, however, obliged to admit'. the Duke of Sotomayor that his argument was good; that the Noble Viscount had no reason for doing what he had done at the time at which he did it; but the opportunity had arisen, and he availed himself of it. But a more important fact was disclosed, and one which their Lordships and the country would require to have a full explanation of. He meant the different view taken by Members of the Government on this subject.— (Hear, hear.) He had mistaken the Noble Marquis the other night if he did not rest the whole of his case on this fact : that the letter of Lord Palmerston was a private letter to the British Minister at Madrid, and ought not to have been shown ; and he stated ex plicitly that he lamented the course which Mr. Bulwer had adopted. The leading Minister in the House of Lords, stated that he "lamented " the course pursued by a Minister of the Crown, and, by so saying, he meant that such conduct was not justifiable, and ho virtually passed his censure upon it. He (Lord Stanley) expressed a doubt whether that letter had ever been seen by the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) or the Noble Earl (Grey). Why, at the time the Noble Marquis re ferred to it, on Friday night, he was not cognisant of what he was about to lay on their Lordship' table; he was not aware that the British Minister in Spain had, upon the face of the documents now before their Lord ships, received the entire and cordial approval of Lord Palmerston. The letter from Mr. Henry Lytton Bul wer was dated April the 7th, and there was another of the 11th of the same month. On the 19th, and also on the 20th, the Noble Viscount (Palmerston) had written to Mr. Bulwer, and in both dispatches approved of his conduct. In one he said, " Her Majesty's Government likewise approved of the note which you addressed on the 7th inst. to the Spanish Minister for Foreign Affairs." Now he would leave it to the Noble Mar quis to explain that extraordinary fact.—(Hear, hear.) The letter of the 11th, from Mr. Bulwer, enclosed also the dispatch from the Duke of Sotomayor; and the an swer again of Viscount Palmerston to that was a most extraordinary production. He said, " I have received your dispactches," and not " I approve of the course you have adopted;" but " I have to instruct you to state to the Duke of Sotomayor that her Majesty's Government entirely approve of your representation of the 7th inst., and of your note of the 12th inst., and thereby he took upon himself to throw upon her Ma jesty's Government the whole responsibility of the lan. guage, tone, and manner of the correspondence. He took a course in which he involved her Majesty's Go vernment in the entire responsibility of a most offensive proceeding. But, in his attempt to place the correspon dence on a more amicable footing, he exhibited a degree of Christian forbearance which would have been credi table in a private individual, but which was quite incon sistent with the representative of a great power.—(Hear, hear.) What did he say? Having his dispatches re turned in a manner which one gentleman would not tole rate from another, he said, "Go and tell the Duke of Sotomayor that I entirely approve of the course you have adopted; but her Majesty's Government are not at all offended." Thus you exposed yourself to insult, you got a kick, and then begged to say that you entirely ap proved of the course which induced it, and tell the person at the same time that you were not the least offended with him.—(Laughter.) It was a most absurd and lu dicrous anwer to as imprudent a step as he ever heard of. The Noble Viscount went on to conclude the cor respondence by reminding the Minister for Foreign Affairs, whom he was addressing, that in certain circum stances, unless Great Britain had interfered, he (that Foreign Minister), instead of being the Minister of his Sovereign, would have been a proscribed exile on a foreign shore. This needed no comment. He wished he could see a satisfactory issue to such a correspon dence. But he thought he should be excused for calling attention to the subject—(Hear, hear)—and, above all, t vi ha s t e :l u o n u t se th an e d the country had a right to know whether the conduct of Mr. Bulwer, in taking the step which he had a dopted, a th d a o t pt i e t d w , w as as a con pro si e d e e e r d e i d ng by the Government to be Imp-lidera, if not indefensible; and whether the Noble The Mar taken upon himself, in the name of the Government, to a t o P n P e r , " a a n l :37:a i s i e m a r o say, that it was intended Mr. ti) h i e tw a oe r ra d h , who hwph h oaao a uns d lsi dups Spanish dk h xnee e eer i rwis r cnt ospaoeadl entire phoetilow had communicated the Vstiaeetecllyt3ih. own discretion on the He did not believe he before it was known to certainly regretted that it had beenuke of Sotomayor. He distin guished individual ; but Mr. Bulwer, made to that knowledge of the affairs of Spain, m w u e st r havefrom his great had reasons for making the communication of an imperative ter. As to the approbation which had 3een signifiedchttrc- Mr. Bulwer 's conduct, i.t was necessary either to express f approval or disapproval of it ; and if the latter course had been adopted he must have been recalled. That was a course the Government were not prepared to adopt, "i'SceedtrLeintAadriNys siDforo‘FvihrEeici,gll Affairs had not because they did not think it desirable to make this ma tter a subject of permanent quarrel. They did not, however, think fit to give a speci es o f tr i umph to the Duke of Sotomayor after the language which to be communicated to the Spanish sent to Mr. Bulwer he had used , a nd the answer was accordingl- Minister. From what had since taken place he knew that all unpleasant fee lin g between the parties had b een removed.—(Hear, hear . ) The Noble Lord had said madeod whea that the communication wbeen per ilb taken at ; a i was in arbitrary measures bad no t ' tended to leave the matter to Mr. Bulwer's discretion, with a view to prevent the adoption of ouch tneasuree.— ' ( 1 .14.a, - , hear.) Yocre niust have been aoinetoieg to lead his Noble Friend to suppose that the affairs of Spain would take. the course which he was anxious to prevent, and therefore he was justified in the advice which he tendered. That advice was given in a spirit of goodwill to the Spanish Government, and from an anxious desire that the peace of the country awl the strength of the Government might be maintained; and not from a wish to interfere in the affairs of Spain in any other sense than to promote the prosperity of that country. It was a source of satisfaction to him to consider that an amicable feeling had been restored ; Mr. Bulwer's recal had not been demanded ; and therefore he trusted their Lord ships would not think it necessary to revive a contro versy with respect to the merits of the proceeding. The Earl of ABERDEEN did not think much ob servation necessary on the explanation of the Noble Marquis. He did not, however, seem entirely to agree in the course which had been adopted. He admitted with him that it would have been most unjust to have abandoned Mr. Bulwer, becaus e h e h a d certa i n l y acte d according to the spirit of the in s t ruct i ons w hi c h h e h a d received.—(Hear, efeteh perfectly iev eCdr—ownil earand he had no d ou b t t h at M r. B u l wer knew ' hear.) He w as a most a bl e servant well what he was about when he made the communication to the Duke of Sotornayor.—(Hear, hear.) He appeared to have felt perfect confidence that he should meet with the approbation of his Govern ment, and when the Noble Marquis said it was left to his discretion he surely could not have read the com munication very carefully. If there had been a comma between the words " Government" " and" in the opening sentence of the letter it would have removed all doubt as to the passage "If you shall have an oppor tunity of doing so " applying only to the Queen- Mother.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Bulwer had no occasion to seek an opportunity of communi ca ti ng w i t h t h e S pan i sh Government—it was his right t o d o so; b ut h e had no right to put himself in communication with the Queen- Mother.—(hear, hear.) That such was Mr. B u l wer ' s idea was evident from his reply, in which ho said, " In conformity with your . Lordship's in s t ruc ti ons, I too k the opportunity of commun icating to the Spani s h Go vernment, &c. It was said that it was not d es i ra bl e to give an apparent triumph to the D u k e o f S otomayor b y xpre d s o sivoenrywell of after the Noble approbation f rom M r . Bulwer. withholding Ih That tn mightexpression Vis count had received the answer of the Spanish Minister, but it so happened that the approbation was expressed before that reply had been received.—(Hear, hear.) Ho was anxious to know how the renewal of friendly feeling had been brought about, becau se h e regar d e d t h e answer of the Spanish Minister as a most serious aff a i r . He had bad some experience in matters of that sort, but he had never before heard of the dispatch of a British Minister being returned as unfit to be received or re tained.—(Hear, bear.) It was the first time, he thought, that a British Minister had been subjected to such in dignity.—(Hear, hear.) If it had not been for the discussion in their Lordships' House blr. B u l wer might have had his approbation in his pocket, but he would have met with the disapprobation of the whole country ; but now it would be seen, if censure was due, that it attached to those who adopted the step which led to such a communication being made. He fully expected that the suggestion which had been thrown out the other night by his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley), as well as from something which he knew to be going on at Madrid, would have been adopted. He thought there would have been an explanation offered by the British Government, that they did not in tend to interfere in the internal affairs of Spain, and then the offensive communications on both sides would be withdrawn. That would have been the proper course ; but the whole matter was marked by such frivolity as surprised him; and he was at a loss to know how any Noble Lord, with the gravity of the matter before him, could have brought it to such a termination.— (Hear.) He thought Mr. Bulwer had left it much better than it now stood, within so long to quogue wind ing up.—(Hear, hear.) It was quite indispensable that some understanding should be come to with th e Spanish Government with a view to set at rest this most objectionable proceeding; for although we had drawn it on ourselves, yet we had received such an insult as had never been inflicted on any Government before.--(Hear, hear.) He would for a moment refer to the language used by the Noble Viscount who had been so justly com plained of. The Noble Lord said—" The recent down fal of the King of the French and his family, and the expulsion of his Ministers, ought to indicate to the Spanish Court and Government the danger to which they expose themselves in endeavouring to govern a country in a manner opposed to the sentiments and opinions of the nation ; and the. catastrophe which has just occurred in France is sufficient to show that even a numerous and well-disciplined army offers only an insufficient defence to the Crown when the system followed by it is not in harmony with the general system of the country. The Queen of Spain would act wisely in the present critical state of affairs if she were to strengthen her Executive Government, by widening the bases on which the Administration reposes, and in calling to her councils some of the men in whom the Liberal party places confidence. It' that meant anything i it meant an approbation of the revolution which had taken place in France.—(Hear, hear.) It was not con sistent with good feeling, in a fortnight after the arrival of that unfortunate prince (the King of the French) and his family in this kingdom, to hold him up as a warning to the Spanish Government. And it was not true—it could not be said that he was governing France in " a manner opposed to the sentiments and opinions of the nation." The feelings of the people were expressed in the only legitimate way in which they could be made known, namely, by a Government majority in both his chambers. But, suppose this was so —suppose the Noble Viscount's representation to be correct, and it had been so stated to c.eneral Narvaez, he might at once h ave sa id, " If t h e King of the French had allowed his a bl e , u p r i g ht, and courageous Minister to act as I have done, h e wou ld still have been on the thron e o f Franc e ." G enera l Nar vaez had put down the attempt at r ev ol u ti on by means which, unfortunately for himself; the Ki ng o f th e F renc h 1,. abstained from using. It was therefore no argument as to what might have been done by firm resistance.— (Hear.) He must also say that the time chosen for giv ing his advice was most inopportune, it being just after the Spanish Government had put down an attempt at insurrection.—(Hear.) . But o bj ec ti ona bl e as t h e com munication was it could not have been expected to pro duce such an answer.—(Hear.) Much depended on the feeling existing between the party who made the communication and the individual w h o rece i ve d i t. H e should have had no difficulty in giving advice through Lord Cowley to M. Guizot, because of the friendly feeling which existed between them, and this communi cation, if it had been made by a f r i en d , m i g h t have been differently received; b u t i t was o f fered without the shadow of a hope of its bein g accep ted.—(Hear, hear.) Suppose that our inter ference had led to a ch ange o f Ministry, and that national calamities had followed this change, we should clearly have, in such case, been re sponsible to Europe for those calamities. He denied that the interference of the Government in the recent case was called for by any existing treaty. He con sidered it the duty of the Government of Great Britain to establish a friendly understanding with the Spanish Government of a clear, st ra i g h forward character, and to be no longer influenced in any degree by what should now be the dissipated bugbear of French influence. Lord BROUGHAM expressed his gratification to hear that friendly relations were once more established between this country and Spain, and suggested that the quarrel being now over, the less reference there was made to it the better. _ The Marquis of L ONDONDERRY fully concurred in the Noble Lords qualification that the misunder standing between England and Spain, occasioned by the unwarrantable interference in Spanish affairs of our Secretary for Foreign Affairs, was now dissipated. lie felt compelled, nevertheless, t o d enounce the conduct of i the Noble Secretary n meddling as he did with every thing and eve body, a mania which had involved him in the perfectly natural dislike and distrust in every Court of Europe. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE contended that it gratuitous meddling the con ductin di rect i ng our Mi n i ster at wMa o durinjdiudhsiit to discreetly Noble cre d et e lnyFulee a to give, ive s , when occasion should arise, such advice to a friendly Government as the Noble Lord, under the circumstances, deemed it well for that Goveru ment to have, not dictated, but suggested to it. The only error in the matter was an error of judgment on the part of Mr. Bulwer, in the mode of tendering the advice at a peculiarly critical moment. The subject then dropped, and their Lordship? ad journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 8. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed :—Bristol and Clifton Gas Light Amendment Bill, Derby Waterworks Bill, East and West Looe Harbour and Bridge Bill, Herculaneum Dock Bill, Huddersfield Improvement Bill, Stirling Water works Bill. Mr. MACGREGOR presented a petition from the Manchester Lodge of Odd Fellows, praying for the legalisation of their body. Sir W. SOMERVILLE presented a petition from the Bells board of guardians, praying for an altera tion of the Irish poor-laws. Mr. WALTER presented petitions from the inha bitants of Blackfriars in favour of the Health of Towns Bill. Mr. HEYWOOD presented petitions from Hert ford against the game-laws. Mr. J. B. SMITH presented a petition from Forfar, praying for an alteration of the law of entail in Scot land. Mr. URQUHART presented a petition from Staf ford against the Health of Towns Bill. Lord ASHLEY presented petitions from White chapel, Hampstead, and the Isle of Wight, in favour of sanitary reform. Lord DUNCAN presented petitions from Bath against the Health of Towns Bill. Mr. P. SCROPE presented petitions against the sale of spirituous liquors on Sunday. Mr. HILDYARD presented similar petitions from NVhitehaven. Mr. HUME presented similar petitions from Arbroath. NOTICES OF MOTION Mr. AIACGREGOR gave notice that on an early day he should move for various returns connected with the fees and salaries of the parties employed in various public offices. Sir B. lIALL gave notice that on Thursday he Should move for a return of the number of electors registered in the United Kingdom for the election of 184 7; the the of the various towns and boroughs n n am um es ber wh o polled at the election, speci fying to which the electors belonged, an , ' ah‘o a return of the nunshor of hn , lses rated to the peer 'n each of such towns or bur.ughs. GOVERNMENT OF MALTA. Dr. BO WRING, seeing the Hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary of the Colonies in his place, wished to ask him a question of which he had given notice. The inhabitants of Malta had been long expecting that a popular representative government would be conceded to them, and as he understood the subject had been under the consideration of the Colo nial-office, he should be glad to know whether any measures were in progress for extending to the people of Malta the benefit of popular institutions in any shape ? Mr. HAWES said, if his Honourable Friend meant by his question to ask whether a re presentative government was to be conceded to Malta, the only answer he could give him was that no such measure was in contemplation. He should do but ill justice, however, to the Governor of Malta if he omitted to take this opportunity of stating that the Governor had several important measures under his consideration for improving the condition of the island. In the first place, he was ascertaining the expediency of municipal institutions, and, in the next place, he had appointed two Commissioners, one to inquire into the state of the commercial law, and the other to ascertain the state of the criminal tribunals, with the view to improvement. The Go vernor had also had under consideration various other measures, with the view of trying to effect improve ments in the government of the island. Dr. BO\VRING would be glad to know whether the municipal institutions would be based upon the principle of popular representation ? Mr. HAWES could give no information what ever upon that point now, but a report on the sub ject was daily expected from the Governor. CEYLON. In reply to Mr. HUME, Mr. LABOUCHERE stated that there was some difficulty in assimilating the management of Ceylon to that of our other possessions, as its laws were regulated by the Parliament at home, but that he would enter further into the matter when he brought forward his motion on Monday next with respect to our Indian possessions.—(Hear.) SPAIN. Mr. URQUHARTwisheato know whether the interpretation put upon the conduct of Mr. Bulwer by a Noble Lord in another place was sanctioned by the Government, as he had censured his conduct ? Also, whether the letters of the 10th and 11th April, of which extracts cnly had been furnished, could not be laid on the table ; and whether the Duke of Soto mayor had condescended to reply to the recent coca munications made to him by Mr. Bulwer? Lord PALMERSTON replied that the conduct of Mr. Bulwer was approved of by the Government. If the Honourable Gentleman and the House wished to have the letters referred to in full he had no objection to produce them; but those passages expunged had reference to matters which, though proper for the information of the Govern ment, were hardly proper to lay before the House, With respect to the third question of the Honourable Gentleman, he had to state that he had not yet re ceived any intimation from Mr. Bulwer that the Duke of Sotomayor had acknowledged his last dispatch. Mr. URQUHART then gave notice that he should, to-morrow, in bringing forward a motion with respect to the Peninsula, take that opportunity of making some remarks which he thought appli cable to the present state of things in that country. DENMARK AND PRUSSIA.—MEDIATION OF ENGLAND. Mr. URQUHART then inquired in what position this country stood in reference to Denmark—whether the Prussian forces had entered into the Danish provinces ? Lord PALMERSTON said there was reason to believe that orders had been given for the advance ment of the troops to Jutland. With respect to the other question, he had to state that the parties had consented to accept the good offices of the British Government as mediators—(Hear)---and he was in communication with both parties, and hoped to be en abled to bring matters to an amicable and satisfactory adjustment. Mr. URQUHART inquired if an application of the same nature had been made to Russia. Lord PALMERSTON was understood to say that Denmark had applied to both. THE - RIVER PLATE. In reply to Mr. BANKES, LordPAL MERSTON stated that no communication had taken place between this Government and the Provisional Government of France with respect to the River Plate. In conjunction with the late Go vernment, that of England sent out instructions which he believed would ultimately lead to the amicable adjustment of the matter. They had no reason to think that the present Government of France would withdraw those instructions. He understood that the Elbe and the Eider had been blockaded, which of course would be regulated by the laws usually in force on such occasions. British subjects, he be lieved were allowed to pass uninterruptedly. VAN DIEMEN'S LAND. In reply to Mr. HUME, Lord J. RUSSELL stated that he proposed to introduce a measure in the course of the session to afford this colony a representative government. ENTAILED ESTATES. In reply to Mr. BRIGHT, ,the Noble Lord stated that this Bill would be introduced into the House from the House of Lords at the earliest possible mo ment, consistent with the progress of other Bills, like that with respect to the navigation-laws. CRACAYIV. Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to a ques tion from Lord Dudley Stuart, stated that he had received information that in consequence of certain events that had taken place in Cracow, there was a bombardment, or rather a cannonade upon the town, which lasted for some hours, and that it afterwards ceased.—(Laughter.) JAMAICA. Lord G. BENTINCK wished to know from the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he had received any confirmation of the statement that had appeared in the Jamaica Times of the answer of Sir Charles Grey, then Governor of Jamaica, to a deputation with an address to him, which was to the effect that matters were in an unsatisfactory state at home; that there was a Committee sitting on Indian affairs and that al though her Majesty's Ministers had stated they would not alter their policy, that was not to be considered final. Mr. HAWES had no knowledge of the deputation having taken place, or the answer to it. SPAIN. Mr. BANKES wished to know from the Secre tary of State for Foreign Affairs how it was that the extract from the Spanish correspondence in the Clamor Publico, that was promised by the Noble Lord, was not among the papers that had been laid on the table of the House. He also wished to know whether the statements that had appeared in in the French papers was derived from the Spanish Government; and how it happened that the whole of the correspondence had appeared in the daily papers twenty-four hours before it was in the hands of Members ? Lord PALMERSTON said, in answer to the first question of the Honourable Member, he could not find among his papers the copy of the Clamor Publico ; he had, however, since obtained an other copy which he had no objection to lay on the table of the House. With regard to the source from whence the French newspaper had obtained its information, he had no direct authority upon the subject, but this was clear, it was not direct either from her Majesty's Goverament or Madrid, but his firm conviction was that it came from Spain. With respect to the last question of the Honourable Member, he begged to state that it was always usual to send contemporaneous copies to the daily papers of all papers printed for the House and the use of Members, a practice the utility of which no one, he believed, would deny, and one which he trusted would never be discontinued. The probability was, therefore, that the papers had had their copies early, and published them some hours be fore Hon. Members received them. HEALTH OF TOWNS. The Earl of LINCOLN stated that it was his intention in Committee on the Health of Towns Bill this evening, to move the omission of the 4th and sth clauses, and if he suc ceeded in that he should propose in the 6th clause to place the appointment of superintending inspec tors in the hands of the Secretary of State. THE CUSTOMS. Mr. M.ACGREGOR wished to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Government whether he was dis posed to make any arrangement with him for fixing a day to bring on his motion relating to the Customs. If not he should be compelled to bring it on when it was proposed to go into a Cemmittee of Supply. Mr. EWART said, before the Noble Lord answered that question, he wished to say a word or two in reference to it. If he was not mistaken, the Hon. Gentleman's motion stood in the position of a dropped notice; and he begged to inform the House that on Tuesday last, when it stood on the paper, he stood behind the Hon. Member in the lobby when the House was being counted.—(Hear, and laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL said he could not give the Hon. Gentleman a day. Mr. MACGREGOR begged leave to explain the apparent inconsistency alluded to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Newark. When he came down on Tuesday afternoon about half-past three o'clock, he found in the lobby about twelve Members, but no member of the Govern ment was present. Soon afterwards the number was increased a little, but still there was no member of Government in attendance ; and, although he endeavoured to beat up Members to mak' , a Hous bf , saw it wai nlt ,!., to tff,ct that object. He, of course, was aware of the number of Members in the llothe and the number in the lobbies; but as it fell very far short of a House, he saw no necessity for going into the House when it was counted.—(Hear, hear.) HEALTH OF TOWNS BILL. In answer to a question from Sir R. H. INGLIS, Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated that it was in = tended to make a material alteration in the Public Health Bill. It was proposed to introduce a clause to establish a Public Health Commission, consisting of four members, two of whom should be paid and two unpaid, one of the paid Commissioners having a seat in that House. Lord MORPETLI and Mr. BouvERIE presented peti tions in favour of the Bill. On the motion for going into Committee on the Bill, Mr. SPOONER rose to resume the adjourned debate. He said, although the Government had made various alterations in the Bill, the principle of it remained the same and he objected most de cidedly to the powe r which was proposed to be given to a central board in London to control the affairs of the different localities affected by the Bill. There was, also, an unlimited power given to the Lords of the Treasury to appoint officers and officials under the Bill, which power he con sidered unwarranted and unconstitutional. He admitted that some superintending body was ne cessary to see that proper sanitary measures were adopted in the different localities ; but he pro tested against the interference of Government in the local administration of the different towns such as was proposed by the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord at the head of the Government would find so many complicated interests affected by the Bill that he would be unable to carry it through the House, and he would suggest the pro priety of the Government withdrawing the Bill and bringing in one which was more in accordance with the opinions of the House and the country. In the present state of distress which prevailed in the country it was most absurd to give unlimited power to the Government to increase the expenses of the State. The retail dealers in most of the large towns were quite unable to pay additional taxes, and they would object to the Bill which so unne cessarily did so. He trusted the Government would, therefore, bring in a Bill more likely to meet the ap probation of the House ; but if they endeavoured to press the present measure through the House, he for one should issue his protest against it. The Honourable Gentleman the Member for Falkirk had an important motion on the paper, which should receive his hearty support—namely, that they should proceed through and complete the details of the Bill before they appointed Commissioners to carry it out. The Government would do well by adopting his suggestion. The result of the principle of centralization sought to be introduced by the Bill would lead to this :—local boards would decline to act, assistant commissioners would only act when they thought proper, and everything would be left to the London board, who could not be expected to manage satisfactorily purely local matters. It was absurd to expect that men of independent spirit would act when their proceedings were liable to be quashed by an irresponsible board sitting in London, Agricultural would be' mixed up by the Bill with town parishes, which could not fail to involve the management of the Commissioners in inextricable contusion, because all kinds of rates were collected for different pur poses. He would suggest that the Bill should be re ferred to a Committee up stairs, who would examine witnesses, and point out from their evidence how a practicable measure might be successfully framed and carried into operation. II is object for moving the adjournment of the debate was to enable the Noble Lord to take time to see whether he could not snake some concessions to the opponents of the Bill. Some concession he certainly had made, but it was sof a very trifling character, and for the reasons he had already urged he should vote for the amendment of the Hon. Member for Stafford, if he determined to carry it to a division. _ SLANEY said the Honourable Gentle man who had just sat down had spoken with a good deal of fluency upon this subject, but he must confess that nothing had fallen from him to show that the measure ought to be defeated. The time had arrived when it was the duty of the House, not for their own sakes, but for the sake of mitigating the sufferings of the great mass of the people, to establish large and comprehensive sanitary regulations. Ten years the subject had been under consideration, and still nothing had been done, and in that space of time the necessity for passing such a measure as this had more than doubled. Ten or fifteen years ago the great mass of the people consisted of agricultural labourers, but since then the populations of towns had increased to such an enormous extent that the agricultural labourers were greatly in the minority, and such a measure as this must of necessity be passed toim prove the social condition of the large bands of men, women, and children, who were congregated together in the extending manufacturing districts of the north. Commission after commis sion had sat upon this subject and urged upon the Legislature the necessity of passing such a measure as this. With what grace then could the House re fuse this concession to the working classes ? He hoped, however, that the Government would persevere with the measure, and they . might de pend upon ultimately carrying it through. Nay, they had the support of the majority of the people out of doors, and they would terribly lose cast if they slackened in their exertions to carry the Bill. He believed that if the opponents of the Bill had read the rules and resolutions of the different Commissioners, who had been appointed to investigate the condition of the working classes throughout the country, and on which the Bills of the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) and the Noble Lord (Lord Morpeth) were founded, they would DO longer continue their unjust and unnecessary oppo sition. He knew those Commissions to have consisted ot the ablest engineers of the country, and felt proud to have the honour of being a fellow labourer with some of those personages on one Commission. He then in vestigated the condition of sixteen towns, among which eras Birmingham, and he should solemnly aver that a w orse condition than that of the working classes, among pigs and stench, could not be imagined. There was great ignorance of the art of making drains amongst those ts. whom the care of their construction was entrusted, being made six feet high and three feet wide, when much smaller and much cheaper ones would answer every purpose. The consequence was, that the poor had not the benefit of as extensive a system of drainage as tiney deserve and were entitled to. Earthenware pipes were much cheaper, and carried off filth much better than brick channels. It was absolutely necessary also that they should have an abundant supply of water in the improved districts, and, therefore, the importance of a measure to enforce all these provisions for the public health could not be too greatly appreciated. The only course that now lay before them, in their endeavour to realize the practice of these principles, was to go into Committee on the Public Health Bill, which had been very properly entrusted to the Noble Lord the First Commissioner of Wood s an d F orests, who had yielded a great point, viz., that he would consent to t h e Bi ll b e i ng curried into practice by th e G overnment, ass i sted b y tivo unpaid Commis s i oners . Th e Hon. Member for xeter objected to the appointment of any Commis sioner, but he was sure that his anxiety for the health and comfort of the poorer classes would not allow that circumstance to remain an obstacle with him. The reports on the state of certain portions of the towns of Bristol, Bath, Frome, Merthyr, and other places of the w es t, were o f a nature to rouse t h e most apathetic to a sense of the importance of a general cleansing system. The mortality returns were a true criterion of the wretched state of the population, and in the places he had named, it varied from 25 to 3, the general average throughout the country being 22 per cent. In some other places it amounted to as much as four, five, or even six per cent. After looking at the state of all those towns, he had come to the conclusion, that it was absolutely necessary for every class of society that reforms of this description should' be carried out immediately, and if this were refused, or defeated, or impeded, the evil results of that line of conduct would sooner or later become apparent, because it was clearly the health of the poor that enabled them to render pro ductive the property of the rich. In Lancashire alone there were 336,000 cases of disease attributable to the want of measures of this sort, and that number would speedily be increased or equalled in other parts of the kingdom, and th ere was no knowing in what the i r neg ligence might terminate. Mr. C. PEARSON observed that it was extremely difficult to define the boundary line between the prin ciple and details of a Bill; as that which one Hon. Gen tleman might consider a principle, another might regard only as a matter of detail. Hence the frequent reply to objections against this Bill: " They are only matters of detail—let us cons id e r th e m in Committee. His idea of the principle of this Bill was this—that so many cities, towns, and boroughs in the country as the Government should please to distinguish by an order in council were to be taken out of the existing law, which vested the power of making sanitary regulations in a local autho rity, and placed under the controul of a Government Board—that was to say, that the time-honoured insti tutions of the country were, like ricketty children, to be placed in the go-cart of Government centralisa tion. That was, in his estimation, the principle of the Bill, and, being altogether opposed to it, he could not consent to go into Committee for the purpose of considering how it might best be carried out. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to combat the arguments of the last and other speakers, that this Billoti:oonEu(r)lrfalntmheeeataerfli( ally peo ple, improve r t i h n e g social a e n s d a nphysical c s t o e n tn d i of w o h la ie t h un h d e er sa t i h d a t t h s is ys ß te i m ll ewasthe other continental imitation, caonudn showinb w , those countries were inferior to England in morality, longevity, and physical comforts. The proportion of Austria, 1 in 33; in Russia, 1- in 38; deaths in France was 1 in 4 9 ; in Prussia, andin E l n i g n la 3 n B d yn l in 45. The Hon. Gentleman did not state what returns own n qu p o r t i e u d nip fr i o e co ni but argued that in England, under her lf•goverzent, there was less t, mortality than in those countries e here the system of c.. , ntralisatton sruk,l - it. ,stablir,lad by (bib Dirt was in operation. Ho also quoted largely from returns re specting early marriages, showing a great pi eponderarce in favour of England, and particularly London, while the number of illegitimate children was proportionately small. He wholly acquitted the Noble Lord the Member for London of having omitted that city from the Bill be cause of his political connexion, and must do him the justice to say, that he believed there was not the slightest foundation for any such imputation. He op posed this Bill not for the city of London. but as a Member of Parliament speaking for the country at large; and as such, he must say with regret that the grossest misrepresentations had been palmed upon the country respecting it. As the sample so was the sack. He round it stated in a report of the subcommittee of the Health of Towns Association—a body of propagandists who were trying to infect the minds of the nation.-- " that since 1838 upwards of 58,000 children were ._ de stroyed in London who wou ld no t h a ve been destroyed the rate of mortality was the same as in the district (. 1 Lewisham." If fairness were intended, a place having only about 600 inhabitants widely separated would not have been chosen as a comparison and placed in CO' trast with a thickly populated city. This showed the manner in which the public mind had been drugged by the advocates of this measure. He would add that though during the years stated the whole number of children aged 5 years and under who had died in the city of London was 5,125, the number was stated in the publications put forth by these associations to be 58,00 0 . He (Mr. Pearson) should be ashamed to make these charges here in the absence of those parties, unless he had previously made them before a body of the mem bers of these associations, when the secretary of the Health of Towns Association and the secretary of the Metro politan Association were both present; and yet when be made the charge they sto o d mu t e monumen ts of detecte d 3 _. impositions, which th e y h a d no t t h e courage to defend Hence, he had a right to charge against these men publications and statements which were grossly ru, unt and only put forth to influence votes in favour of this measure. Still, however, he did no t p re t en d to say tha t there was not room for great s a n it ar y i m p r ovements -- that admission he made as bro a dly as h e could stat e . it.—(Hear, hear.) He would naent i on one c ase state d in a report published ley the Statistical Society , to which Colonel Sykes, Dr. Guy, an d M r . N e eson wer e parties. The case had ref erence t o a particula r locality, to which presently he wo u ld g i ve a name. I? read it with shame and hu m ili at i on , to thi n k that he lived in a country were such scenes were per mitted to „ take place. These gentlem e n re f erre d to t h e condition of eighteen houses whi c h h a d b een v i s i te d con i e cutiveli c i Each of these contained a d ense p opu l at i on c l ose ly packed together to an extent whi c h it was f r i g h t f u l t oc onteralio"; In these abodes the m ax i mum amount of cu bi c feet ci f . air was 270 feet, but the average was 176 cubic feet , e ; air for respiratory purposes. Wh y , any f e l on in the country was allowed in his cell 1,000 cubic feet of air for the purposes of his health, and yet these poor creit tures, thus huddled together, had an average of onli 176 feet. The report went on to state that in these wretched abodes all ages and sexes were huddled toge ther—fathers and daughters, mothers and sons, brothers and sisters, adult strangers male and female, and you n g children—the sick and the dying —to a pressure tho even brutes would resist ; an d among t h em it was je3 ,l possible to observe the ordinary decencies of life, a n d hence immorality and vice grew with their growth firl so strengthened with their str eng th. T o pu t a n end ne such a system lie would willingly joi n w ith any elas ° , - c t body of men. But wher e did a ll t hi s ta k e place, ', under whose c on t ro l an d government ? Why, the locality was Church-street, St. Giles's, and the authority was that of the Woods and Forests.—(Hear, hear.) The House was aware th a t an A ct h a d b een passe d giv' eg ., authority to the Wo o d s an d F orests to cons t ruc t a ne e street through St. Giles's to connect Holborn with 01 : ford-street; and for the construction of the new s treet • tax was imposed upon all coals imported into Loed °e ; This tax, it had been untr u ly c h arge d, was managed ~ the corporation of London. On the contrary, th' e r n; itagement was placed in the W oo d s an d F ore sts, wu le i , department had a fund from that source of 500,00.. with which to make th e new street, to pull down half the houses of the locality, and t o ma k e arrangeme nts for tl i ; better accommodation of the p eo pl e w h o would thus ri displaced from their habit a ti ons . A n d w h a t hed bae e , the result ? Why, the ho uses h a d b een pulled u ° s e . and the people were driven into the wretched abodes of scribed in the report he h a d quo t e d, t h e inr6i s per o which had thus been incre ase d t o t h e ex t en tr d , a nd cent. So much for the management of the Vi re° Forests. that the Lord MORPETII intimated a c r oss th e table care new street and alterations allud e d t o h a d not been c red out by the Woods and F ores t s , b ut un der the , (:) i c h inissioners of Metropolitan Impr oveme nts, of w" body the Lord Mayor was a member.—(Hear, hear.) te • Mr. C. PEARSON resumed—He was aware of t 5 convenience of putting in the commission a few dual; mien —(A ( had A 1 a been ugh included)a laugh)—and d no i d n ou th b e t tchoemnarssLon give tt an appearance of popularity; but no man could doubt that the Lord Mayor, however respectable, would melt into measureless insignificance in the p resence of an in' dividual of so high a p osition as the Nobl e Lord .-- ' (Loud laughter.) If , t herefore, the Wood s and Fore sts managed affairs so wretchedly so near home, what could be calculated upon as the result of their core' trolling power and supervision of works in distan t parts of the country under this Bill?—(Hear, hear' ) In the course of this discussion the subject of th e visitation of the cholera in thi s country some years ; ago had been alluded to. At t h at time—name ly 1832, ho had been appointed chairman over 97 parishes, to administer a fund of 10,000 i. voted by the Corporation. He entered on this point to show the vantage of local government. The city of London de' termined to act for th emse l ves, despite the frigh t t edict issued by the Privy Council at that time, at The head of which was the Marquis of Lansdowne- , citizens of London stood their ground, as had their 1 1 - 0 ; decessors at the time of the plague. They forme" or , their own cost a board of health, which dissented ire . , t the views of Sir Henry Halford and the G-overnea,e,'s medical men as to the contagious character of , 1 1, 1 ' s disease. And what had been the consequence of _ l O course pursued ? In Paris, where the disease : le treated as contagious, the deaths were as 1 in 40; w" c l e . in London, whic had taken its ;own course of Pr ° 4o o dure, the deaths had been in the proportion of lin O s of the population. These were pr oo f s th a t the neal' eg , ment of local affairs ought to be left to local authorlirs, whose exertions ought not to b e p ermi tt e d to be o f lysed or deadened by the influence or interference Government commissioners. —(H ear , h ear .) He di tty think he should do service to the cause which heesoo, cerely advocated if he said more than to express his re f viction that if this Bill should pass, whatever the e°, lip t ee might choose to submit to, the city of London anu sa re metropolitan districts would not tolerate such a 03°- being applied to them.—(llear, hear.) Lord ASHLEY said he was very anxious to ing i 4 if r e ss upon the House the absolute and indispensable ne eee ite of commencing some measure calculated to remove g i c o g vances which weighed so h eav il y upon the wern:ite Hise other o r b n l i e Forl F ite r nt i hd e a n t d btah o dis P;t ri s eti a ir (Lordc w la o r s k s ei man's classes.—(Hear, a 1 Morpeth), nhadill. hear.)said His No he uttered a truer thing. Th e measure was connec ted ” b ie the working man's whole existence. It began u t bed home—it affected his ca p ac i ty to go abroad— it toe° o f his health, and it i ncrease d or diminished his re ee ' lls " ' b oi obtaining a livelihood for his wife, his family, an'"„ O plef self. This qu es ti on , f ormer l y unknown to the li'"ifeb' was now well und ers t oo d b y t h em, and its accol n e r e ert• went was one of th e d eares t o bj ects t h ey h a d at you' Hence it affected not merely the phy s i ca l an d nee ril lit ical dition of the working classes, b u t a l so t h e ir poll for content or discontent, just as l eg i s l at i ve m eager' sanitary improvement were a d o pt e d o r nug' - a l f6' He did not deny that there were great a or culties in the way of legislation on this subjec t ' to that it required great ingenuity and p er severanc e r f ee devise a measure which should b e an an tidote i b st ed , prodigious and intolerable evils whi c h a t p re sent el l r od But the greatness of these difficulties could not be,seng ought not to be, any argument for stopping the Pr. e oo . , measure at the very threshold o f it s d ue cons iderate bit bit namely, in Committee; and he (L or d Ashley) W e ! o°' Noble Friend opposite (Lord Morp e th), an d to tu e :bieh vernment, the highest praise for the manner in the they had addressed themselves to this question, all lees' mode in which they had encountered those diffie n . rt ee, At the same time, he fairly told th em t h at , i n C 0 03133 104 the Bill wits susceptible of great improvemen t; the whether or not, he (Lord Ashley) implore-,,,,0r House to let the Gover nmen t h ave the e ribe. tunity of dealing with the Bill in Committee'ot se cause it was a measure whi c h h a d a lready g t strong a hold upon the minds of th e p eo ple, that t R ss essentially necessary to prove to them in detail Wh il f t he or was not feasible in respect to the removal e t ee' various abominations to which th e y were a t prase!, 0 0 posed. It had been stated that th e ex i s ting la to sufficient to effect all purposes. Th e l aw wa s etrong o to remove nuisances provided men had the means t°g the ~, law; but still they were ins u ffi c i ent or unequal ' 0 th e institution of improvements, especially in referenc e '„ he due and sufficient supply of water, an d theren-0 go repeated his hope that the Bill would be allowe; lbr investigation in Co mm i ttee. He (Lord ~," 11 5 this should not have ventu re d to address the House 050cIt° subject, had it not been f or th e o b servations addees We' the House the last ni g h t o f the debate b y the t oed Member for West Su rrey (M r. Drummond), s los s that a number of i n t ereste d persons availing theni-oet Up of the feeling which prevailed in the country, ha d lcrir an agitation in ord er t o carry a measure of this "i"„ em tion. As he (Lord A s hl ey) had been most deeN loflg barked in the wh o l e o f t hi s movement—as h e WI 1 40' been actively en gage d i n the endeavour to obtainelie Up on lative measure o n this subject, he was ready to take cos' himself a share o f as much blame as could 000' upon the proceeding ; but he would leave it to th a e i eel 3 ' Member (Mr. Drummond) to show that he ( 1,0r „, 3 11 5P ley) had exhibited a grain of selfishness in the e :T o per —(Hear, hear.) And he would ask the Hem s s ot te whether, in the opposition to the measure, titer r d something of selfishness, and a low and mean reg s We e ' pecuniary interests?—(Hear, hear.) When the hi. Member treated the subject with so much pats*? fef„ . must have forgotten, or never have known the ae7 . in g which existed through the country upon it. te l / 4 1 could not have known that in almost every larger local boards had been formed to investigate I :L idij to et: o ° , to make periodical reports which, from beginn in g showed one and the same complaint of the tor_ n re s % quacy of the law for the removal of the great nu et ri t eoe: , two Pbe e$ ins evils they denounced. There had been to "' to, from the city he represented—one prarmg_ ba bita ° t o empted from the Bill—the other from the in so y , calling upon their representatives not to g iv , e e he gif local influences, but to make it subservien! o _; l eirosi, neral good. He (Lord Ashley), therefore , f l ikedt io j at liberty to act as he liked, and, acting wee, et ed ee should vote for the Bill going into Coree'ee sees" there introduce such amendments as t° w