The Sun. — London, England, 1848-05-09 00:00:00

LAW INTELLIGENCE. VICE CHAIN , CER Y, May, 8. (Before the VICE-CHANCELLOR Of ENGLAND.) ATTORNEY-GENERAL V. 'WILSON. hieh have already oi The arguments in this case, copied the Cot four days, were w res . umed to : day. Th case came before the Court upon an information relatin to the song-contested case with respect to Lady Hewley' s charity, which has been, as our readers are doubtless t aware, the source of so much difference between the various bodies of Dissenters from the Church of Eng land. It will doubtless be remembered that in the case of the Attorney-General v. Shore, the Unitarians laid claim to the charity property, and their claims , having been set aside, the Baptists, the Inde - pendents, and the Dissenting Presbyterians claime a the property. The case will probably occur iy several days yet, but it may not be improper at the present moment to state bow the case now state Is. In the former proceedings in the cause, which Was ul ti =ltaly decided in the House of Lords, the decisions wt ire unanimous against the claims of the Unitarians, w ho had intruded into the charity; and that result led to an Act of Parliament, which quieted the claims of part. :€3 who should hereafter be, under similar circumstanc: of long possession notwithstanding a gradual departu re from the tenets of the founder. But the Act did ist touch the present case, which was pending at ti ie , time when the Act was introduced. The Ueitariat being excluded from the charity, the question remained entirely open as to which of the different classes of what are sometimes called orthodox Dissenters were admissible. The original relators were of the class of Independents, and succeeded in driving out the Unitarians. The effect of that decision was an order to remove the Unitarian trustees, and a reference to the t Master to appoint new trustees. The parties who then ' commenced the new war between themselves were the In dependents and the Scotch Kirk in England, and a branch which separated from it in 1733, called the Secession Kirk. These two latter parties attempted to show that the foundress was a Presbyterian on the model of the Scotch Presbyterians, and not an Independent. All the parties were allowed by an order of the present Lord Chancellor to go before the Master on the reference. The Master made his report in 1837, which was to the effect that out of two classes of seven grand trustees and seven sub trustees he appointed of each class two from the repre sentatives of the Kirk, two - from the Secessionists, and three from the Independents. In 1843 the case was brought before this Court upon exceptions to the report.. But his Honour overruled the exceptions. The cause was• now brought to a hearing, and the same question which was. debated oa the exceptions was raised more formal? y. The trust was mated in the year 1707. The esta , ;03 were given by Lady Hewley, who was the widow of ' a bencher of Gray's Inn and a Dissenter, " for the bem ;fir of poor and godly preachers of Christ's Holy G' °six and for poor and godly widows of such poor and go , IV preachers, and for promoting the preaching of Chri it's Holy Gospel in poor places, and for the education of. young men intended for the ministry, and th at York :ad the four northern counties should have the prefeten ea, and a hospital was to be founded at York. Mr. Bethell and Mr. (handless , who appeared as, counsel for the promoters (the Independents), cc ,n -tended, in opening the case severa l da y s since, that t he members of the Scotch Kirk in England, or minista rs licensed in Scotland, and having chapels in England, were not entitled. That Scotch Presbyterians were n es:- within the Acts of Uniformity nor the Toleration Ate, which referred to them; and that the Independents : , Baptists, and Presbyteria ns of Lady Hewley s time wee-, represented by the class now called Independents, That the name o f Presbyterians had gr m own y in o t f o t d h i a s t: repute, on account of th e p rofession by an body of Socinian principles, and hence had almost.; disappeared, and that of Independents now prevailed ir: its stead. The persons: who now came forward as et 7 the Scotch or Secessi on Kirk in England were, in fact, members of the Church of Scotland, which claimed a exercised jurisdiction over them, and they, the mem bers of a great national Church, wools: disclaim the! title of Dissenters, and would separate themselves alto , - gether froni the great body of English Dissenters, b , that it was supposed som et hi ng was to b e ga i ne d b y , th l.. e use of the name on this occasion. Mr. Stuart, Mr. Rolt, and Mr. Bacon, on subseque nt days, followed oa t h e b e h a lf o f parties who had a comm on interest with the r e l a t ors , an d to-day Mr. Swanston, with whom was Mr. James Parker arid Mr. Matins, opened the case of the defendants, the Di s senting Presbyterians. The arguments of the Learned Counsel occupied the Court the whole day. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, May 8. HILTON V. LORD GRANVILLE. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) After hearing Counsel on both sides, the Court reserved its decision. The case will go to a Court of Error. BAIL COURT, May 8. (Sittings in Banco, before Mr. Justice ERLE.) IN RE CHARLES NORVAL. Mr. PARRY moved for a rule nisi, calling upon the Judge of the County Court of Lambeth to show cause why a writ of prohibition should not issue, to restrain him from issuing his warrant in a case where Mr. Norval was the defendant. By the 122 d section of the County Court Act power was given to the judge to assist landlords to recover possession of small tenements, where the rent did not amount to 501., and where the tenanthad made default in payment of the rent. The section pro vided that " upon proof " of the non-payment the Judge should be at liberty to issue his warrant to give the landlord possession. In this case the defendant held under an agreement, but, nevertheless, the Judge of the County Court decided against him. The Judge, however, did not issue his warrant within a reasonable time after the decision; and, on behalf of Mr. Norval, it was contended that he ought now to be prohibited from issuing it at all. Mr. Justice ERLE said the application was premature. The issuing of the warrant might now be illegal, and it was not the practice of the Court to issue orders to re strain parties from committing illegal acts, until the ille gality had actually commenced. It would be time enough to apply to the court, when the judge had issued his warrant. Rule refused. 'WALLER AND OTHERS v. DANVEY AND OTHERS. Mr. Peansoss moved for a rule nisi, calling upon the Judge of the County Court of Middlesex, to show cause why a writ of prohibition should not issue to restrain the plaintiffs from proceeding further in the case. The Court was aware that the 58th section of the County Courts Act provided that the judge of any of these courts could not have jurisdiction in any case where the title to corporeal or incorporeal property was involved. Now in this case the defendant rented three houses in Chelsea, which the late Mr. J. Sickery of the same place left by his last will and testament to Mrs. Jane Feary, and by the same will he bequeathed the same property to the plaintiff in trust for Mrs. Jane Feary. Subse quently to the death of the testator the rents were paid to Mrs. Feary, with, the consent of the plaintiffs, but Mrs. Feary had since died, and the plaintiffs demanded that the rent should be paid to them. The executors of Mrs. Feary also set up a claim under the will of Mr. Sickery, and the result was that the matter was carried into the County Court, a n d a d ec i s i on was ma d e to the effect t A h e a t, that the rent oug h t to b e pa id to t h e p l a i nt iff s . Th e however, took th e case ou t o f th e j ur i s diction of the County Court, and as the defendants might possibly be called upon to the twice j roce re . nt over, they wished to have all further stopped, and the matter dinSs in the County Court Rate nisi. carried to a higher tribunal. ,LICE INTELLIGENCE. MANSION -Yo REXARKABLE CASE or FORGE "E 'i named John Clarke and James H enrynTwo young men, I ,inchta cudstody of John Bradbury, were with having brought before the Lord Mayor, banking-house of and Daniel Forrester, the officers uttered two forged cheques upon the :2.eankl.6n Sir John Lubbock and Co., one for 434/. the other for 371/. 7s. 4d. The prisonerss. were and skilful management, caught with almost the e ' ~b i d „ amount of the proceeds of the cheques in their p os .. session. Mr. Mullens, of the firm of Bush and Mullens, soli citors to the Committee of Bankers for protection against Forgeries and Frauds, attended for the prose cution. The prisoner, having but just landed from the Con tinent, were not provided with legal assistance, but they intimated that upon the next examination they would produce materials of defence. Mr. Mullens—l accuse the two prisoners of having been concerned in both forgeries, which were uttered under rather extraordinary circumstances. In the case of the cheque for 4341. 16s. B d. , a person named Joseph Thornet was made the instrument by which the amount was received at the banking-house. It appeared that on the 22d of April it was presented by Thornet at the counter, and paid to him, he having received it from a person to whom he becama known through the medium of an advertisem ,, nt. Thornet had Previously advertised in the Times newspaper for a situation, and on the fol lowing day inquiry was made for him by an individual w ll O afterwards bad several interviews with him , and who told hi m it was for another person's service he w as re quired. I n the course of the communications took P l ace thewho . negotiatingwith person was WI Thornet, and' lieve that the which who led that unsuspecting party to be • he could be engagement was perfect, asked him whether negotiatorsh"id Thornet said trusted with a cheque to get cashed. and the faithfully execute the order, ea office in the E who made it appear as if he had unedfor 434? 16s. id. upon Lubbock street, handed a cheque India Chambers, in Leadenhall and Co. to Thornet,cla bill case to put the money house, happ ene d the banking to make a mistake in a Thornet, in the way to ' turn, and asked a strangerm moment right direction. The prisoner, Clarke, at that stre e t, he would thc. direction towards that he was himself going rin,ent Caine up, and saying Mansion House street, and he accordingly did so, willingly point out the • sented, and at once paid in four 1001,e cheque was pre and upon Thornet's return into the notes and cash" who asked him whether he had dons his he saw Clarke, ' when he replied in the affirmative dis is business, and net then took the money to the personappe are d . Thor net him, and who gave him half-a- c 7ho had em trouble, and promised to write when his future for his should arrive in town. At Brussels, Clarke wils u t re i master custody by the police, in comcany with Bradbury, a 'eninto bank-notes which had been paid at Lubbock's for and fo the cheque were found upon both of them. With respect r t the forged cheque for 3711. is, 4d.,_ the circumstances f) the similar. Timothy Newbound advertised for the sit were of servant on the 18th of April, in the 7 imes, anuaation ; called upon by a person, who engaged with him f ur y scrviee of a geWeman, andappointment made an the to • m eet him at the Custom-house. Upon Newbounu' ar rival at the Custom-house, he saw the gentleman who .., made the appointment, and who, after some conversa- roe tion, said he had a ship lying off, which he could not get in till the duties were paid, and Newbound readily undertook to get a cheque cashed at Lubbock's bank, for the purpose. Upon returning to the Custom-house, Newbound paid three 1001. notes, a .50/. note, and 211. 1 75. 4d. in cash, to the man who had thus employed him, and who appointed to meet him at Hatchett's Hotel, in Piccadilly, to confirm the engagement ; met him accord ingly, gave him ten shillings, and appointed to meet him again, but did not keep his word in the last in stance. In the latter, as well as the former, the proceeds of the forgery were found upon the two prisoners. Mr. Mullens said, it could be proved that the plate from which the cheques were struck off was a forgery, as well as the signatures to the cheques. Mr. Charles C. Lawrence, clerk to Sir W. Lubbock and Co.'s banking-house, in Mansion-house -street, said Messrs. T. and W. Hawes keep an account with us. On Saturday, the 22d of April, the cheque produced for 371/. 7s. 4d., purporting to be drawn in their names was presented at the counter, and I paid it in three 100/ notes, dated 10th of January, 1848, and numbered seve rally 43,226, 45,307, and 36,137, a 50/. note No. 4,253, date 23d of December, 1842, of the Portsmouth Bank, and cash 21/. 7s. 4d. From circumstances which have since come to my knowledge, I believe the signature to be decidedly a forgery. Mr. Richard Mullens, of the firm of Bush and Mul lens, solicitors for the prosecution, said, I was present at Brussels on Thursday last, the 4th instant, when the prisoner Clarke was examined by the police magistrate there. I heard him state that the bank note for 50/. (No. 4,253) produced was found on his person in a pocket in the inside of his flannel waistcoat, worn next to his skin, at the time he was taken in custody by the police in Brussels. I also was present on the same day when James Henry Bradbury, the other prisoner, was examined before the same magistrate. I there heard Bradbury state that two 100/. notes (Nos. 43,226 and 36,137, dates 10th January, 1848,) had been changed by him at Brussels on Tuesday. the 25th of April. Brad bury selected these notes from several others lying before him, andointed to the writing, J . Brad bury, Brighton," wr i t t e n on the backs with ink, and he stated that these notes and others were given to him on Saturday, the 22d of April, on the quay at Dover, by a Mr. Bullock, of 114, Yardley-street, near the King's road, Chelsea. Mr. Mullens said he had no further evidence to pro duce upon the present occasion. The LORD MAYOR—Do the prisoners wish to say an thing? Clarke—Not at present, my lord. I t i s my intention employ solicitor.a aiso w isht employ a solicitor, but do Bradburylto ai do not wish to say anything now. Remanded._ _ ~......__ MARLBOROUGH -STREET. Mary Ann Sheard, Sophi a G arnett, an d I sa b e ll a Hyde three notorious thieves, were yesterday placed before Mr. Bingham, the former charged with stealing from Mrs. Sarah Snenshott a purse, containing twosovereigns and suspicion, w with 1 being ishillings, concerned e r t n h ed in stealing e latterlwo thesame. charged, e. on James Hall, foot man i n t h e service of S ir James Roe, 96. Piccadilly, said, on S atur d ay afternoon, about four , o'clock, he was at " -08, Regent-street, ard saw the pri soner Sheard standing outside the shop. Witness watched her, and saw her go up to a lady who was looking in the shop-window, and put her hand into the lady's pocket. The prisoner then looked round, and seeing that witness was observing her, ran away. Witness then went up to the lady and asked her if she had lost anything ? The lady felt in her pocket, and said that she had lost her purse. Witness then told the lady what he had seen, and went in pursuit of the pri soner, whom he found near Maddox-street, with the purse in her possession. He detained her till a consta ble arrived, when he gave her in charge. Mrs. Sarah Sparshott identified the purse produced as her property. Andrews, 116 C, said he took the prisoner Sheard into custody, and on their way to the station she said that the other two prisoners were as much in it as she was, and that Hyde had taken the purse and gave it to her. He went iu search of the other prisoners, and found them concealed in the coal-cellar of a public-house in Maddox street. He then took them into custody. The prisoners Garnett and Hyde denied all knowledge of Sheard, and protested they had never seen her before. Mr. BINGII-4.31 said he should commit Sheard for trial, but as there was no legal evidence against the other two, he should give them one more chance by discharging them. ATTEMPTED SUICIDE.—Henry Dutton, a poor half starved sailor, residing at No. 35, St. Clement's-lane, was charged before Mr. Bingham with having attempted to commit suicide, by jumping into the Serpentine in Hyde-park. Godfrey, the deputy superintendent of the Royal Humane Society, said, on Saturday, about one o'clock in the afternoon, he saw the prisoner jump from the bridge into the water. He imme diately rowed to the spot and dragged him out in a state of great exhaustion, and took hiss to the receiving-house and placed him in a warm bath. When he recovered himself he told witness that he had a wife and four children, who, with himself, were in great distress and starving. He also said that he was tired of his life, and had resorted to the above means to get rid of all his troubles. Mr. BINGHAM in the most kind and feeling manner addressed the prisoner on the enormity of the offence, which he said was a most cowardly way iof getting rid of trouble, and only resorted to by those who had not the moral courage to bear up against difficulties and misfortune. He would now discharge him, providing he (prisoner) would promise not to repeat the offence. The prisoner's brother here came forward, and under took to take care the prisoner did not attempt the same again. Mr. BINGHAM then discharged him. RAILWAY COMMITTEES. GROUP IW. This Group re-assembledy-esterday in Committee Room No. 30; Mr. Eliot Yorke in the chair. EXETER, YEOVIL, AND DORCHESTER BRA NCHES. Mr. D. HILL opened the case for the promoters of this Bill, which, after a very severe contest, was passed by a Committee of the House of Commons last session, bat the struggle between the two contending parties, the South-Western and the Great Western Companies, was protracted till so late a period that there was not time to carry it into the Lords. The Bill was to authorise the construction of a line, on the narrow gauge, from Salisbury through Yeovil to Exeter, with branches to Bridport and Shaftesbury. The merits of the scheme were fully gone into last year, and ultimately established to the satisfaction of the Com mittee; and it was, therefore, not intended to re-open the general case. The opposition, he understood, was to be directed against the subscription contracts. It was contended by the opposing petitioners that the subscrip tion contract was invalid, but it would be proved beyond all question that there was no ground for such an allegation; and he was sure the Committee, in the end, would have no difficulty in confirming the decision come to last year. The COMMITTEE decided that they would not require the promoters to substantiate their subscription con tracts, but throw the onus of proving their informality upon the opposing petitioners. Mr. KEATING then addressed the Committee on behalf of the petitioners, contending that the subscription con tracts did not bear the names of bone I fide subscribers. The COMMITTEE did not think these objections in any way detracted from the genuineness of the contracts, and directed the Learned Counsel to confine his attention to the objections he had to urge against individual sub scribers. The petitioners not being prepared to go into these objections, The CommirrEE consented to adjourn till Wednesday. GENERAL COMMITTEE OF ELECTIONS. The members of the General Committee of Elections met yesterday afternoon, and appointed the following mem bers to try the merits of the petition presented against the return for Longford:—Lord Henry Bentinck, Mr. R. Slaney, Mr. William H. Pole Carew, Mr. Thomas B. Readlam, with Mr. Bouverie for their chairman. The Committee will be sworn to-day, and coal mence its labours on Wednesday. NATIONAL ASSEMBLY. The on ' that the itsaCrl) AFTERNOON SITTING. - voluntary, ro . position of the organization committee, andvalutraitere should be no stated amount of submscrr.itt.iojno,NEBto the .Chartist fund should be earnedby a large majority. course of conduct the Asse cla b of a gave motion stating what A m ei o n ly deemed it necessary for Chamrtoove.ment which did the people to pursue. r to , not to pay any I them not to support any politica?" things, it advised Chartist not fully embrace the People's articles; a house taxes, poor-rates, or tithes ; not of any but a Chart ist,. nor to deal with any bu t tradesman; to abstain from the use of exciseaoaultialae to convert their paper securities into gold • themselves with arms , . in order that they inighreau"ly their constitutional rights, and for the maintenxanerecelse peace, law, and or der. . of A long discussion then followed upon th e mode of electing a general executive of five persons, as recom _ mended in the report of the organization committee, an d also upon oer points inthe report. The Assemthbly then adjourned. the ter d a y evening BRITISII AND F' SAILORS' SOClETY.—Yes terdaypresided. The Secreta r y read the fif ananveuranl,mßeeisthinogpsogfatteh-isstreseot.cietyDavid W. Wire, was held at the London T interesting details. teenth annual report opo rt T ofh The h t e o comm i ttee. talrece ipts fo l r t th w e a l s as f t tl y ll ea o r f were 2,9661. 195.; the expenditure, society with liabilities amountingto however, 468. nloro le th ft an th i e t had on hand. The Chairman said it was not his inten tion to occupy their time by any the report spoke sufficiently for that the Lord Mayo r was how ever, to express his deep regret lengtheneditself. He remarks, had, as not able to be present, and that he had tlr foren phreevietnnteewd men being pr esen t by a p rev i o us engagement, that his Lordship took a great interest attendanceinthesociet)% lie con gratu l ate d t h e soc i ety on the increased at their meeting this year. The meeting was addressed by the Reverends G. Smith, J. Burnett, N. Boyes, and M. Davis, and by Messrs. Payne and Garland. THE LATE EXTENSIVE CONFLAGRATION ON 1-10 - -mi-L.—Yesterday Mr. William Payne and a respectable jury assembled at the City Arms. Holborn bridge, for the purpos e of inquiring into the circum stanc" co nnected with t h e fire wich broke out on Holborn-hill last Friday, and which destroyed the pre ' mises occupied severalty by Mr. Peaty, a tea-dealer ; A M i r ier W ex m a t m er i , n a ing ta s il e o v r e;rz htMr. Skinner, a tobacoonist. itnes!es, the jury returned a fire verd originatedtiet " Tha there was no evidence to prove hew the ." IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, May a. Their Lordships assembled at Five o 'clock. The Earl of STRAFFORD, a t the re ques t o f th e Earl of Derby, presented a petition from Liverpool and Manchester in favour o f the Jewi s h Di sa bil it i es Removal Bill ; also , petitions from Clapham, and various places in Wales, with a sim ilar prayer. Lord CAMPBELL presented an immense number of petitions from various places with a s i m il ar prayer ; also, several petitions in favour of legalizing the Society of Odd Fellows. The Duke of BUCULEUCH presented several petitions from various Presbyteri es i n S cot l an d against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. Lord DACRE presented several petitions in favour of the measure. The Earl of EGLINTON presented several peti tions against the measure ; also, a petition from the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow against any alter ation in the navigation-laws. JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL. In reply to a question from Lord STANLEY, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE fixed the second reading of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill for Thursday, the 25th, on the understanding that it should not be postponed beyond that day. LAW REFORM. Lord BROUGHAM would then bring forward his motion on the administration of the law on Friday, the 12th. The Earl of ABERDEEN had never before heard of a motion being advanced. It might be postponed, but not advanced. The Earl of RADNOR suggested that the Noble and Learned Lord might withdraw his motion for the 16th, and give a fresh notice for the 12th. Lord BROUGHAM would adopt the suggestion of his Noble Friend, and withdraw his former notice, and give notice for the 12th for his motion on the subject. CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS BILL. Lord LYNDHURST asked if his Noble and Learned Friend opposite intended to proceed with his Criminal Proceedings Bill on the 12th ? Lord CAMPBELL said it was his intention to proceed with that Bill on Friday next. PETITIONS. Lord BEAUMONT presented several petitions from various places in favour of the Jewish Disabili ties Removal Bill. The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S presented a peti tion from the students of Lampeter College in favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. Lord KINN AIRD presented several petitions from various places to the same effect. The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented several petitions against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. Lord STANLEY said he must detain their Lordships for a short time whilst he referred to the subject of dis cussion on Friday night last. Her Majesty's Ministers had since laid on the table of their Lordships' House the correspondence to which be then referred with re ference to Spain. He had no intention of submitting a motion on the subject, but, having perused that corre spondence, he could not refrain from stating the im pression which it had produced on his mind. The Noble Marquis (Lansd o i ode w lrne n r to e o t ) tre rkt s t hno e fe e or a m ewo InF e t hh d roeet wrnh t ceodthahshyaenate newspaper, e been labouri ng paper ats app a re t ayr t p r eg i o b rof ,ut Foreigntaihnnogdl d t h ion e f Ip s l Affairs t nu a db ti lei n re g aa t t i s o o i thatnngohufel Mr. at Bulwer d rh the document, a most important part of which it had sup pressed. Now, it appeared from the statement of that newspaper itself that the first time it got into its columns was the 24th of April; whilst the Duke of Sotomayor had complained of its appearing in a Spanish paper on the 10th of that month. Upon looking at the letter itself, as it was now printed, he thought it had not been mutilated. The communication of the Noble Viscount (Palmerston), which commenced the correspondence, began by saying, "I have to instruct you to recommend earnestly to the Spanish Government, and to the Queen-Mother, if you should have an opportunity of doing so, the adoption of a legal and constitutional course," &c. Now, it ap peared to him, inasmuch as Mr. Bulwer could easily have an opportunity of communicating to the Spanish Government the Noble Viscount's dispatch, but might not be able to do so to the Queen-Mother, that the words "if you should have an opportunity of doing so," applied exclusively to the latter, and had no reference to the Spanish Government.—(Hear, hear.) It appeared to him by this correspondence, first of all, that there was a great difference of opinion between the British Minister in Spain and the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in this country; and secondly, that there was a still wider difference between the sentiments of the Noble Viscount and his colleagues. The reply of the Duke of Sotomayor stated that he did not understand what the letter meant by recommending the adoption of a legal and constitutional course, because at the time it was written an emeute had not taken place, and the Spanish Ministers were following a strictly con stitutional mode of government. What was the answer of Mr. Bulwer? He admitted the justice of the observation: he acknowledged that the com munication of the Noble Viscount was made before the Government had taken any step of an arbitrary cha racter, but said it was intended to refer to a state of tbings which might arise. The Noble Viscount, how ever, had not said anything about a state of things which might arise; he had given his instruction with reference to the actual, and not the future, state of things. Mr. Bulwer was, however, obliged to admit to the Duke of Sotomayor that his argument was good; that the Noble 'Viscount had no reason for doing what he had done at the time at which he did it; but the opportunity had arisen, and he availed himself of it. Bat a more important fact was disclosed, and one which their Lordships and the country would require to have a full explanation of. He meant the different view taken by Members of the Government on this subject.— (Hear, hear.) He had mistaken the Noble Marquis the other night if he did not rest the whole of his case on this fact : that the letter of Lord Palmerston was a private letter to the British Minister at Madrid, and ought not to have been shown ; and he stated ex plicitly that he lamented the course- which Mr. Bulwer had adopted. The leading Minister in the House of Lords, stated that he "lamented" the course pursued by a Minister of the Crown, and, by so saying, he meant that such conduct was not justifiable, and he virtually passed his censure upon it. He (Lord Stanley) expressed a doubt whether that letter had ever been seen by the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) or the Noble Earl (Grey). Why, at the time the Noble Marquis re ferred to it, on Friday night, ho was not cognisant of what he was about to lay en their Lordships' table; he was not aware that the British Minister in Spain had, upon the face of the documents now before their Lord ships, received the entire and cordial approval of Lord Palmerston. Tho letter from Mr. Henry Lytton Bul wer was dated April the 7th, and there was another of the 11th of the same month. On the 19th, and also on the 20th, the Noble Viscount (Palmerston) had written to Mr. Bulwer, and in both dispatches approved of his conduct. In one he said, " Her Majesty's Government likewise approved of the note which you addressed on the 7th inst. to the Spanish Minister for Foreign Affairs." Now he would leave it to the Noble Mar quis to explain that extraordinary fact.—(Hear, hear.) The letter of the 11th, from Mr. Bulwer, enclosed also the dispatch from the Duke of Sotomayor; and the an swer again of Viscount Palmerston to that was a most extraordinary production. He said, " I have received your dispactches," and not " I approve of the course you have adopted;" but " I have to instruct you to state to the Duke of Sotomayor that her Majesty's Government entirely approve of your representation of the 7th inst., and of your note of the 12th inst., and thereby he took upon himself to throw upon her Ma jesty's Government the whole responsibility of the lan guage, tone, and manner of the correspondence. He took a course in which he involved her Majesty's Go vernment in the entire responsibility of a most offensive proceeding. But, in his attempt to place the correspon dence on a more amicable footing, he exhibited a degree of Christian forbearance which would have been credi table in a private individual, but which was quite incon sistent with the representative of a great power.—(Hear, hear.) What did he say? Having his dispatches re turned in a manner which one gentleman would not tole rate from another, he said, "Go and tell the Duke of Setomayor that I entirely approve of the course you ' have adopted; but her Majesty's Government are not at all offended.' Thus you exposed yourself to insult, you got a kick, and then begged to say that you entirely ap proved of the course which induced it, and tell the person at the same time that you were not the least offended with him.—(Laughter.) It was a most absurd and lu dicrous anwer to as imprudent a step as he ever heard. of. The Noble Viscount went on to conclude the cor respondence by reminding the Minister for Foreign Affairs, whom he was addressing, that in certain circum stances, unless Great Britain had interfered, he (that Foreign Minister), instead of being the Minister of his Sovereign, would have been a proscribed exile on a foreign shore. This needed no comment. He wished he could see a satisfactory issue to such a correspon dieranpere:deßatu,t he thought he should be excused for calling Viscount th i ::: : attention to the subject—(Hear, hear)—and, above all, that House and the country had a right to know whether tthakeecnonduct of Mr. Bulwer, in taking the step which he had adopted, was considered by the Government to be matter becau h soew evert say that it tone, and w approval.— not :ao Secretary . s ind e f indefensible ; s f i o b r l e E ; o a r n e d i gnwhether Affairs d Noble no t upon himself, in the name of the Government, to _ w as a )tindistinctly proceeding heard, which was The M arquis of LANSDOWNE, who spoke in a low had communicated thete say, that it was intended own discretion on theo r . Spain,B u o l Bulwer e t n should must made imperative have treeoan e t t hti h x av h e e dea i exercise c . understood distin guishedis e reasonsh entire t i his before individual was ;subject. He did not believe he dispatch to a Spanish newspaper the zi r . D B u n k ein e we o: Sotomayor. hfrum n ihis grn H a e t certainly regretted that it had be but fkonro makingwle d ge otfhteh communication affairs As to the approbation which had signified of Mr. Bulwer's conduct, it was nectssary eithert approval or disapproval of it ; and if the latter express se had been adopted he must have been recalled. That was they did not think it desirable to make this a course the Government were not prepared to adopt, a subject of permanent quarrel. They did think fit to give a species of triumph not, and the answer was accordingly he had used, communicated to the Spanish to the Duke of Sotomayor after the language which sent to Mr. Bulwer to be Tho Noble Lord had said 1 removed.—(Hear, hear.) _ e at a period when ad Minister. From what ha d since taken place he knew that all unpleasant feelin g w b a e s tw m een the parties had been athrbaittratirlye mcoemasmuruennsticbfaeatediolinnn not been taken ; but it was in it tended to leave the matter to Mr. Bulwer's discretion, with a view to prevent the adoption of such measures.— (Hear, hear.) There must have been something to lead his Noble Friend to suppose that the affairs of Spain would take the course which he was anxious to prevent, and therefore he was justified in the advice which he tendered. That advice was given in a spirit of goodwill to the Spanish Government, and from an anxious desire that the peace of the country and the strength of the Government might be maintained; and not from a wish to interfere in the affairs of Spain in any other sense than to promote the prosperity of that country. It was a source of satisfaction to him to consider that an amicable feeling had been restored ; Mr. Bulwer's recal had not been demanded ; and therefore he trusted their Lord ships would not think it necessary to revive a contro versy with respect to the merits of the proceeding. The Earl of ABERDEEN did not think much ob servation necessary on the explanation of the Noble Marquis. He did not, however, seem entirely to agree in the course which had been adopted. He admitted with him that it would have been most unjust to have abandoned Mr. Bulwer, because he had certainly acted according to the spirit of the instructions which he had received.—(Hear, hear.) He was a most able servant of the Crown, and he had no doubt that Mr. Bulwer knew perfectly well what he was about when he made the communication to the Duke of Sotomayor.—(Hear, hear.) He appeared to have felt perfect confidence that he should meet with the approbation of his Govern ment, and when the Noble Marquis said it was left to his discretion he surely could not have read the com munication very carefully. If there had been a comma between the words " Government" " and" in the opening sentence of the letter it would have removed all doubt as to the passage "If you shall have an oppor tunity of doing so" applying only to the Queen- Mother.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Bulwer had no occasion to seek an opportunity of communicating with the Spanish Government —it was his right to do so; but he had no right to put himself in communication with the Queen- Mother.—(Hear, hear.) That such was Mr. Bulwer's idea was evident from his reply, in which he said, " I❑ conformity with your Lordship's instructions, I took the opportunity of communicating to the Spanish Go vernment, Bs.c. It was said that it was not desirable to give an apparent triumph to the Duke of Sotomayor by withholding an expression of approbation from Mr. Bulwer. That might do very well after the Noble Vis count had received the answer of the Spanish Minister, but it so happened that the approbation was expressed before that reply had been received.—(Hear, hear.) He was anxious to know bow the renewal of friendly feeling had been brought about, because he regarded the answer of the Spanish Minister as a most serious affair. He had had some experience in matters of that sort, but he had never before heard of the dispatch of a British Minister being returned as unfit to be received or re tained.—(Hear, hear.) It was the first time, he thought, that a British Minister had been subjected to such in dignity.—(Hear, hear.) If it had not been for the discussion in their Lordships' House Mr. Bulwer might have had his approbation in his pocket, but he would have met with the disapprobation of the whole country ; but now it would be seen, if censure was due, that it attached to those who adopted the step which led to such a communication being made. He fully expected that the suggestion which had been thrown out the other night by his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley), as well as from something which he knew to be going on at Madrid, would have been adopted. He thought there would have been an explanation offered by the British Government, that they did not in tend to interfere in the internal affairs of Spain, and then the offensive c ommunications on both sides would be withdrawn. That would have been the proper course ; but the whole matter was marked by such frivolity as surprised him; and be was at a loss to know how any Noble Lord, with the gravity of the matter before him, could have brought it to such a termination.— (Hear.) He thought Mr. Bulwer had left it much better than it now stood, within so long to quoque wind ing up.—(Hear, hear.) It was quite indispensable that some understanding should be come to with the Spanish Government with a view to set at rest this most objectionable proceeding; for although we had drawn it on ourselves, yet we had received such an insult as had never been inflicted on any Government before.—(Hear, hear.) He would for a moment refer to the language used by the Noble Viscount who had been so justly com plained of. The Noble Lord said—" The recent down fal of the King of the French and his family, and the expulsion of his Ministers, ought to indicate to the Spanish Court and Government the danger to which they expose themselves in endeavouring to govern a country in a manner opposed to the sentiments and opinions of the nation ; and the catastrophe which has just occurred in France is sufficient to show that even a numerous and well-disciplined army offers only an insufficient defence to the Crown when the system followed by it is not in harmony with the general system of the country. The Queen of Spain would act wisely in the present critical state of affairs if she were to strengthen her Executive Government, by widening the bases on which the Administration reposes, and in calling to her councils some of the men in whom the Liberal party places confidence. It' that meant anything it meant an approbation of the revolution which had taken place in France.—(Hear, bear.) It was not con sistent with good feeling, in a fortnight after the arrival of that unfortunate prince (the King of the French) and his family in this kingdom, to hold him up as a warning to the Spanish Government. And it was not true—it could not be said that he was governing France in " a manner opposed to the sentiments and opinions of the nation." The feelings of the people were expressed in the only legitimate way in which they could be made known, namely, by a - Government majority in both his chambers. But, suppose this was so—suppose the Noble Viscount's representation to be correct, and it had been so stated to General Narvaez, he might at once have said, " If the King of the French had allowed his able, upright, and courageous Minister to act as I have done, he would still have been on the throne of France." General Nar vaez had put down the attempt at revolution by means which, unfortunately for himself, the King of the French abstained from using. It was therefore no argument as to what might have been done by firm resistance.— (Hear.) He must also say that the time chosen for giv ing his advice was most inopportune, it being just after the Spanish Government had put down an attempt at insurrection.—(Hear.) But objectionable as the com munication was it could not have been expected to pro duce such an answer.—(Hear.) Much depended on the feeling existing between the party who made the communication and the individual who received it. He should have had no difficulty in giving advice through Lord Cowley to M. Guizot, because of the friendly feeling which existed between them, and this communi cation, if it had been made by 'a friend, might have been differently received; but it was offered without the shadow of a hope of its being accepted.—(Hear, hear.) Suppose that our interference had led to a change of Ministry, and that national calamities had followed this c h ange , we should clearly have, in such case, been re sponsible to Europe for those calamities. He denied that the interference of the Government in the recent case was called for by any existing treaty. He con sidered it the duty of the Government of Great Britain to establish a friendly understanding with the Spanish Government of a clear, straighforward character, and to be no longer influenced in any degree by what should now be the dissipated bugbear of French influence. Lord BROUGHAM expressed his gratification to hear that friendly relations were once more established between this country and Spain, and suggested that the quarrel being now over, the less reference there was made to it the better. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY fully concurred in the Noble Lord's qualification that the misunder standing between England and Spain, occasioned by the unwarrantable interference in Spanish affairs of our Secretary for Foreign Affairs, was now dissipated. He felt compelled, nevertheless, to denounce the conduct of the Noble Secretary in meddling as he did with every thing and everybody, a mania which had involved him in the perfectly natural dislike and distrust in every Court of Europe. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE contended that it was unjust to denounce as gratuitous meddling the con duct of his Noble Friend in directing our Minister at Madrid discreetly to give, when occasion should arise, such advice to a friendly Government as the Noble Lord, under the circumstances, deemed it well for that Goveru went to have, not dictated, but suggested to it. The only error in the matter was an error of judgment on the part of Mr. Bulwer. in the mode of tendering the ad s ubject then dropped, and their Lordship? ad vTichee a t a peculiarly critical moment. ad journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 8. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed :—Bristol and Clifton Gas Light Amendment Bill, Derby Waterworks Bill, East and West Looe Harbour and Bridge Bill, Herculaneum Dock Bill, Huddersfield Improvement Bill, Stirling Water works Bill. Mr. MACGREGOR presented a petition from the Manchester Lodge of Odd Fellows, praying for the legalization of their body. Sir W. SOMERVILLE presented a petition from the Bells board of guardians, praying for an altera tion of the Irish poor-laws. Mr. WALTER presented petitions from the inha bitants of Blackfriars in favour of the Health of Towns Bill. Mr. HEYWOOD presented petitions from Hert ford against the game-laws. Mr. J. B . small presented a petition from Forfar, praying for an alteration of the law of entail in Scot land. Mr. URQUHART presented a petition from Staf ford again s t th e H ea lth of Towns Bill. Lord ASHLEY presented petitions from White chapel, Hampstead, and the Isle of Wight, in favour of sanitary reform. Lord DUNCAN presented petitions from Bath against the Health of Towns Bill. Mr. P. SCROPE presented petitions against the sale of spirituous liquors on Sunday. Mr. HILDYARD presented similar petitions from Whitehaven. day Mr. HUME presented similar petitions from Arbroath. f 1 8 .47 ; the NOTICES OF MOTION _ Mr. MACGREGOR gave notice that on an early heth the h fe o e u s l d andmove sa la r f i o e r s o v f a r t i h o e u s parties returns employedconnected in various public o ffi ces. Sir B HALL gave notice that on Thursday he shouldre. !nave for a return of the number of electors registered in the United Kingdom for thy election of number who polled at the election, speci names of the various towns and boroughs ying the to which the electors belonged, and also a return of the number of houses rated to the poor in each of such towns or boroughs. GOVERNMENT OF MALTA. Dr. BOWRING, seeing .tile lion. Gentleman the Under-Secretary of the Colonies in his place, wished to ask him a question. o'i which he had given notice. The inhabitants of 'Malta had been long expecting that a popular re; ?r esentative government would be conceded to them, :It td as he understood the subject had been under the c o> isideration of the Colo nial-office, he should be glad' to know whether any measures were in progress for. extending to the people of Malta the benefit of pop tailar institutions in any shape ? Mr. HAVES said, if his Honourable Friend meant by his question to ask whether a re presentative government was to be conceded to Malta, the only answer he could give him was that no such measure was it s contemplation. He should do but ill justice, howe v er, to the Governor of Malta if he oniittod to take this• opportunity of stating that the Governor had sever Ll important measures under his consideration for im iproving the condition of the island. In the first pia( e, he was ascertaining the expediency of municipal in citutions, and, in the ❑ext place, he had appointed t• vo Commissioners, one to inquire into the state of the commercial law, and the other to ascertain the state of the criminal tribunals, with the view to in tnrovement. The Go vernor had also had under con: loleration various other measures, with the view of try Log to effect improve ments in the government of the: island. Dr. BOWRING would be : glad to know whether the municipal institutions w' uld be based upon the principle of popular representa ti on ? Mr. HAWES could give n o information what ever upon that point now, but, a report on the sub , ject was daily expected from t le Governor. In reply to Mr. HUME, CEYLO N. Mr. LABOUCIIERE stat ed that there was some difficulty in assimilating the . management of Ceylon to that of our other possessi cans, as its laws were regulated by the Parliament at home, but that he would enter further intt) the matter when he brought forward his motion on Monday next with respect to our Indian possessiol is.—(Hear.) Mr. URQUHART wished to know whether the interpretation put upon the ,:onduct of Mr. Bulwer by a Noble Lord in another 'One was sanctioned by the Government, as he had c ensured his conduct ? Also, whether the letters of tl 10th and 11th April, of which extracts only had bee n furnished, icould not be laid on the table ; and wh..t - her the Duke of Soto mayor had condescended to r , ',ply to the recent com munications made to him by ; Bulwer? Lord PALMERSTON r e?lied that the conduct. of Mr. Bulwer was approved ,of by the Government. If the Honourable Gentleman. and the House wished to have the letters refers e d to in full he had no objection to produce the:m ; but those passages expunged had reference to matters which, though proper for the information of the Govern ment, were hardly proper 1;o lay before the House, With respect to the third question of the Honourable Gentleman, lie had to state that he had not yet re ceived any intimation from Mr. Bulwer that the Duke of Sotomayor had acknowledged his last dispatch. Mr. URQUHART the ri gave notice that he should, to-morrow, in brir i s ing forward a motion with respect to the Peninsula, take that opportunity of making some remarks which he thought appli cable to the present state of things in that country. DENMARK AND PRUSSIA.—MEDIATION OF ENGLAND. Mr. URQUHART then inquired in what position this country stood in reference to Denmark—whether the Prussian forces had entered into the Danish provinces ? Lord PALAIERSTON said there was reason to believe that orders had been given for the advance ment of the troops to Jutland. With respect to the other question, he had to state that the parties had consented to accept the good offices of the British Government as mediators—(Hear)—and he was in communication with both parties, and hoped to be en abled to bring matters to an amicable and satisfactory adjustment. _ _ Mr. URQUHART inquired if an application o the same nature had been made to Russia. Lord PALMERSTON was understood to say that Denmark had applied to both. THE RIVER PLATE. In reply to Mr. BANKES, LordPALMERSTON stated that nocommunication had taken place between this Government and the Provisional Government of France with respect to the River Plate. In conjunction with the late Go vernment, that of England sent out instructions which he believed would ultimately lead to the amicable adjustment of the matter. They had no reason to think that the present Government of France would withdraw those instructions. He understood that the Elbe and the Eider had been blockaded, which of course would be regulated by the laws usually in force on such occasions. British subjects, lie be lieved were allowed to pass uninterruptedly. VAN DIEMEN'S LAND. In reply to Mr. HUME, Lord J. RUSSELL stated that he proposed to introduce a measure in the course of the session to afford this colony a representative government. ENTAILED ESTATES. In reply to Mr. BRIGHT, the Noble Lord stated that this Bill would be introduced into the House from the House of Lords at the earliest possible mo ment, consistent with the progress of other Bills, like that with respect to the navigation-laws. CRACOW. Lori PALMERSTON, in answer to a ques tion from Lord Dudley Stuart, stated that he had received information that in consequence of certain events that had taken place in Cracow, there was a bombardment, or rather a cannonade upon the town, which lasted for some hours, and that it afterwards ceased.—(Laughter.) JA MAICA. Lord G. BENTINCK wished to know from the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he had received any conirmation of the statement that had appeared in the Jamaica Times of the answer of Sir Charles Grey, then Governor of Jamaica, to a deputation with an address to him, which was to the effect that matters were in an unsatisfactory state at home; that there was a Committee sitting on Indian affairs and that al though her Majesty's Ministers had stated they would not alter their policy, that was not to be considered final. Mr. HAWES had no knowledge of the deputation having taken place, or the answer to it. SPAIN. Mr. BANKES wished to know from the Secre tary of State for Foreign Affairs how it was that the extract from the Spanish correspondence in the Clamor Public°, that was promised by the Noble Lord, was not among the papers that had been laid on the table of the House. He also wished to know whether the statements that had appeared in in the French papers was derived from the Spanish Government; and how it happened that the whole of the correspondence bad appeared in the daily papers twenty-four hours before it was in the hands of Members ? Lord PALMERSTON said, in answer to the first question of the Honourable Member, he could not find among his papers the copy of the Clamor Public° ; he had, however, since obtained an other copy which he had no objection to lay on the table of the House. With regard to the source from whence the French newspaper had obtained its information, he had no direct authority upon the subject, but this wa s clear, it was not direct either from her Majesty's Government or Madrid, but his firm conviction was that it came from Spain. With respect to the last question of the Honourable Member, he begged to state that it was always usual to send contemporaneous copies to the daily papers of all papers printed for the House and the use of Members, a practice the utility of which no one, he believed, would deny, and one which he trusted would never be discontinued. The probability was, therefore, that the papers had had their copies early, and published them some hours be fore Hon. Members received them. HEALTH OF TOWNS. The Earl of LINCOLN stated that it was his intention in Committee on the Health of Towns Bill this evening, to move the omission of the 4th and sth clauses, and if he suc ceeded in that he should propose in the 6th clause to place the appointment of superintending inspec tors in the hands of the Secretary of State. THE CUSTOMS. Mr. MACGREGOR wished to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Government whether he was dis posed to make any arrangement with him for fixing a day to bring on his motion relating to the Customs. If not he should be compelled to bring it on when it was proposed to go into a Committee of Supply. Mr. EWART said, before the Noble Lord answered that question, he wished to say a word or two in reference to it. If he was not mistaken, the Hon. Gentleman's motion stood in the position of a dropped notice; and he begged to inform the House that on Tuesday last, when it stood on the paper, he stood behind the lion. Member in the lobby when the House was being counted.—(Hear, and laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL said he could not give the Hon. Gentleman a day. Mr. MACGREGOR begged leave to explain the apparent inconsistency alluded to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Newark. When he came down on Tuesday afternoon about half-past three o'clock, he found in the lobby about twelve Members, but no member of the Govern ment was present. Soon afterwards the number was increased a little, but still there was no member of Government in attendance ; and, although he endeavoured to beat up Members to make a House, he saw it was utterly impossible to effect that object. He, of course, was aware of the number of Members in the House and the number in the lobbies; but as it fell very far short of a' House, he saw no necessity for going into the House when it was counted.—(Hear, hear.) HEALTH OF TOWNS BILL. In answer to a question from Sir R. 11. INGLIS, Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated that it was in- tended to make a material alteration in the Public Health Bill. It was proposed to introduce a clause to establish a Public Health Commission, consisting of four members, two of whom should he paid and two unpaid, one of the paid Commissioners having a seat in that House. Lord MORPETH and Mr. BOUVEBIE presented peti tions in favour of the Bill. On the motion for going into Committee on the Bill, Mr. SPOONER, rose to resume the adjourned debate. He said, although the Government had made various alterations in the Bill, the principle of it remained the same, and he objected most de cidedly to the power which was proposed to be given to a central board in London to control the affairs of the different localities affected by the Bill. There was, also, an unlimited power given to the Lords of the Treasury to appoint officers and officials under the Bill, which power he con . sidered unwarranted and unconstitutional. He admitted that some superintending body was ne cessary to see that proper sanitary measures were ' adopted in the different localities ; but he pro tested against the interference of Government in the local administration of the different towns such as was proposed by the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord at the head of the Government would find so many complicated interests affected by the Bill that he would be unable to carry it through the House, and he would suggest the pro priety of the Government withdrawing the Bill and bringing in one which was more in accordance with the opinions of the House and the country. In the present state of distress which prevailed in the country it was most absurd to give unlimited power to the Government to increase the expenses of the State. The retail dealers in most of the large towns were quite unable to pay additional taxes, and they would object to the Bill which so unne cessarily did so. He trusted the Government would, therefore, bring in a Bill more likely to meet the ap probation of the House; but if they endeavoured to press the present measure through the House, he for one should issue his protest against it. The Honourable Gentleman the Member for Falkirk had an important motion on the paper, which should receive his hearty support—namely, that they should proceed through and complete the details of the Bill before they appointed Commissioners to carry it out. The Government would do well by adopting his suggestion. The result of the principle of centralization sought to be introduced by the Bill would lead to this :—local boards would decline to act, assistant commissioners would only act when they thought proper, and everything would be left to the London board, who could not be expected to manage satisfactorily purely local matters. It was absurd to expect that men of independent spirit would act when their proceedings were liable to be quashed by an irresponsible board sitting in London, Agricultural would be mixed up by the Bill with town parishes, which could not tail to involve the management of the Commissioners in inextricable contusion, because all kinds of rates were collected for different pur poses. He would suggest that the Bill should be re ferred to a Committee up stairs, who would examine witnesses, and point out from their evidence how a practicable measure might be successfully framed and carried into operation. his object for moving the adjournment of the debate was to enable the Noble Lord to take time to see whether he could not make some concessions to the opponents of the Bill. Some concession he certainly had made, but it was of a very trifling character, and for the reasons he had already urged he should vote for the amendment of the Hon. Member for Stafford, if he determined to carry it to a division. Mr. SLANEY said the Honourable Gentle man who had just sat down had spoken with a good deal of fluency upon this subject, but he must confess that nothing had fallen from him to show that the measure ought to be defeated. The time had arrived when it was the duty of the House, not for their own sakes, but for the sake of mitigating the sufferings of the great mass of the people, to establish large and comprehensive sanitary regulations. Ten years the subject had been under consideration, and still nothing had been done, and in that space of time the necessity for passing such a measure as this had more than doubled. Ten or fifteen years ago the great mass of the people consisted of agricultural labourers, but since then the populations of towns had increased to such an enormous extent that the agricultural labourers were greatly in the minority, and such a measure as this must of necessity be passed to im• prove the social condition of the large bands of men, women, and children, who were congregated together in the extending manufacturing districts of the north. Commission after commis sion had sat upon this subject and urged upon the Legislature the necessity of passing such a measure as this. With what grace then could the House re fuse this concession to the working classes ? He hoped, however, that the Government would persevere with the measure, and they might de pend upon ultimately carrying it through. Nay, they had the support of the majority of the people out of doors, and they would terribly lose cast if they slackened in their exertions to carry the Bill. He believed that if the opponents of the Bill had read the rules and resolutions of the different Commissioners, who had been appointed to investigate the condition of the working classes throughout the country, and on which the Bills of the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) and the Noble Lord (Lord Morpeth) were founded, they would no longer continue their unjust and unnecessary oppo sition. Ho knew those Commissions to have oonsisted of the ablest engineers of the country, and felt proud to have the honour of being a fellow labourer with some of those personages on one Commission. He then in vestigated the condition of sixteen towns, among which was Birmingham, and ho should solemnly aver that a worse condition than that of the working classes, among pigs and stench, could not be imagined. There was great ignorance of the art of making drains amongst those to whom the care of their construction was entrusted, being made six feet high and three feet wide, when much smaller and much cheaper ones would answer every purpose. The consequence was, that the poor had not the benefit of as extensive a system of drainage as they deserve and were entitled to. Earthenware pipes wero much cheaper, and carried off filth much better than brick channels. It was absolutely necessary also that they should have an abundant supply of water in the improved districts, and, therefore, the importance of a measure to enforce all these provisions for the public ' health could not be too greatly appreciated. The only ' course that now lay before them, in their endeavour to realize the practice of these principles, was to go into Committee on the Public Health Bill, which had been ' very properly entrusted to the Noble Lord the First Commissioner of Woods and Forests, who had yielded a great point, viz., that he would consent to the Bill being carried into practice by the Government, assisted by two unpaid Commissioners. The Hon. Member for Exeter objected to the appointment of any Commis sioner, but he was sure that his anxiety for the health and comfort of the poorer classes would not allow that circumstance to remain an obstacle with him. The reports on the state of certain portions of the towns of Bristol, Bath, Frome, Merthyr, and other places of the west, were of a nature to rouse the most apathetic to a sense of the importance of a general cleansing system. The mortality returns were a true criterion of the wretched state of the population, and in the places he had named, it varied from 25 to 3, the general average throughout the country being 22 per ' cent. In some other places it amounted to as much as four, five, or even six per cent. After looking at the state of all those towns, he had come to the conclusion, that it was absolutely necessary for every class of society that reforms of this description should be carried out immediately, and if this were refused, or defeated, or impeded, the evil results of that line of conduct would sooner or later become apparent, because it was clearly the health of the poor that enabled them to render pro ductive the property of the rich. In Lancashire alone ! there were 336,000 cases of disease attributable to the want of measures of this sort, and that number would speedily bit increased or equalled in other parts of the kingdom, and there was no knowing in what their neg ligence might terminate. M difficult y r. C. t . oPtEi define S Ot the b e b o o u s e n r d v a ed ry l t i h n a e t b i e t t u w . e a e s n e t x b t e r a p m r e i n l ciple and details of a Bill; as that which one lion. Gen tleman might consider a principle, another might regard only as a matter of detail. Hence the frequent reply to objections against this Bill: " They areonly detail—let us consider them in Committee . " His idea of the principle of this Bill was this—that so many cities, towns, and boroughs in the country as the Government should please to distinguish by an order in council were to be taken out of the existing law, which vested the power of making sanitary regulations in a local autho rity, and placed under the controul of a Government Board—that was to say, that the time-honoured insti tutions of the country were, like ricketty children, to be placed in the go-cart of Government centralisa tion. That was, in his estimation, the principle of the Bill, and, being altogether opposed to it, he could not consent to go into Committee for the purpose of considering how it might best be carried out. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to combat the arguments of the last and other speakers, that this Bill would materi ally improve the social and physical condition of the peo ple, by referring to the sanitary system of France and other continental countries, of which he said this Bill was an imitation, and showing that under that system those countries were inferior to England in morality, longevity, and physical comforts. The proportion of deaths in l'rance was 1 in 4'); in Prussia, 1 in 38; in Austria, 1 in 33; in Rusiia, 1 in 38; and in England, 1 in 43. The Hon. Gentleman did not state what returns he quoted from, but argued that in England, under her own principle of local self-government, there was less centralisation tithan soughti those to c h o e u e n s t t r a i h e i s is ehli cd ere hy th t e his sy ß st il er wa ° , - f in operation. He also quoted lareely from returns r specting early marriages, showing a great preponderance,et._ in favour of England, and particularly London, wbal Le t!! number of illegitimate children was proportions II for London He w e f ho h l a ly vin a g cq ( l , i t i i t i t i t e t d ed th t e h N s t o e b i i t e y L fr o o r h from t t he e D i ^ 3 Le a tn i cause of his political connexion, and must do Hea t 1 1 , 1 7 justice to s a y, that he believed there was no _n_a . slightest foundation for any such imputation. Re e k' s posed this Bill not for the city of London. but a l _ „, Member of Parliament speaking for the country st ler_get'si and as such, h e mus t sa y with regret that the, gros.. misrepresent a ti ons h a d b ee n palmed upon the+ cou n' trif) respecting it. As the sample so was the se ck• the found it stated in a report of the sub-committe e w Aisui Health of T owns A ssoc i a tion—a body of props u who w e re t r yi ng t o i n f ec t th e minds of the laden —' de_ " that since 1838 upwards of 58,000 children 'A yp stroyecl in London who would not have been destroy' the C the rate of mortality was the same as in the dis to a : 1130 . Lewisham." If fairness were intended, a place t i: id 00 1 only about 600 inhabitants widely separated r re i ' Con . have been chosen as a comparison and place' c t . l ci t he treat with a thickly populated city. This sh so' by manner in which the public mind had been drisifgr fba t the advocates of this measure. He would a t . of though during th e y ears s t a t e d the whole nue Aber t he children aged 5 years and under who had died I,n. the city of London was 5,125, the number was state 1 1 ,,° 0 0. publications put forth by these associations to be 5 '', 1e50 He (Mr. Pearson) should be ashamed to mall l ess he charges here in the absence of those parties, ill' l „,befs had previously made them before a body of the ,rsl e t y - oe itlt of these associations, when the secretary of the, be n o of Towns Association and the secretary of tb be e be politan Association were both present; and yet ' 1 "; vote d made the charge they stood mute monuments of 'd e de f,nd , impositions, which they had not the courage to' _ i pso Hence, he had a ri g ht t o c h arge against ti,esentrae, publications and statements which were grossly f t his and only put forth to influe nce v ot e s in favour ° t h a t measure. Still, however, he did not pretend to g I str a there was not room for great sanitary that admission he made as broadly as he cool it.—(Hear, hear.) He would mention one Coe 5 , to in a report published by the Statistical Soci 01 );; efe which Colonel Sykes, Dr. Guy, and Mr. Nees° ° ti dal' parties. The case had reference to pa l 11 0 locality, to which presently he would give a neen 'f la t be read it with shame and humiliation, to think t _ st to lived in a country were such scenes were pern , J . tt .o o f take place. These gentlemen referred to the coo l it t i ,. ° o ll; improret a!•,etsto eighteen houses which had been visited copse.gad Each of these contained a dense population closel) /P it we. together to an extent which it was frightful to cont. 'se t of In these abodes the maximum amount of cubic T A of air was 270 feet, but the average was 176 cubic' e r ; t he air for respiratory purposes. Why, any teloa in country was allowed in his cell 1,000 cubic fee t c oy for the purposes of his health, and yet these poo r f 00 1 3 , tures, thus huddled together, had an average these 176 feet. The report w en t on to s t a t e that fe o r wretched abodes all ages an d sexes were huddle -6 t c hefs ther—fathers and daughters, mothers and sons , ht‘", et es ! ct and sisters, adult str angers ma l e an d f ema le, 0°1 . ) Os' children—the sick and the dying—to a pressar: fo e even brutes would resist ; and among them itan possible to obs erve th e ordinary decencies of 'A as' hence immor a li t y an d v i ce grew with their grovO n d t ut strengthened with their strength. To put a n :se or i such a system he w o u ld willingly join with any and body of men. B u t w h ere did all this take pia °°' the under whose control and government ? locality was Church-street, St. Giles's, and the out; The was that of the Wood s an d F orests. —(H ea r, hear'e , nio% House was aware th a t an A ct h a d b een passed ' J oel authority to the Woods and Forests to construct or street through St. Gile s ' s t o connec t H o lborn 'vi t .: e el ; ford-street; and f o r th e construct i on o f the new " nc los* tax was imposed upon all coals imported let° Le ,d This tax, it had be e n u n t ru ly charged, was rnanagLies . the corporation of London. On the contrary+ t•'',hicil nagement was placed in th e W oo d s an d Forests, 0001., department had a fund from that source of 50 0 sy t he with which to make the new street, to pull d0viu,,,b..1.0r the houses of the locality, an d t o ma k e arrangemeurolus b bettor accommodati on o f t h e peop l e w h o w°° , b a d b ee ' displaced from their habitations. And whg t lle d 6'oo , the result ? Why, the houses had been If a b a de s d e ; and the people were driven into the wretcbe- in a t, 's (3 ; scribed in the report he had quoted' th e —rci f 67' ) d . which had thus been increased to the extent o ds, cent. So much for the management of the Yir°° Forests t 6 Lord . MORPETEI intimated across the table Os: or new street and alterations alluded to had not he': 00 01' red out by the Woods and Forests, but under the.,hicti missioners of Metropolitan Improvements, of '1) body the Lord Mayor was a member. — (Hear , hes r'ltbe Mr. C. PEARSON resumed—He was aware oe mien —(A n i o n d t o h n e ht ee t ro he mi n s a si m on e oaf thefew jollertlit Mayor had been included in the commission to er ti o an a ppearance of popularity; but no man could dt'i o l that the Lord Mayor, however respectable, would ' fr i l l' into measureless insignificance in the presence of Op, dividual of so high a position as the Noble I , ° r e sto (Loud laughter.) If, therefore, the Woods and F'?„,' ; hst managed affairs so wretchedly so near home, I.oo' could be calculated upon as t h e result of the ir trolling trolling power and su p erv i s i on of works in °,,j; parts of the country un d er this Bill?—(Hear, "stll° In the course of this discussion the subject 0 .; sts visitation of the cholera in this country some 7'' ill ago had been alluded to. At that time - - - e 3133e , j . 319 : 1832, be had been appointed chairman over t he parishes, to administer a fund of 10,0001. voted by Corporation. He entered on this point to show i t h it e de; vantage of local government. The city of Le°,l ° ,:i r til D termined to act for themselves, despite the ' l. l d i° edict issued by the Privy Council at that time, head of which was the Marquis of Lansdowa a *. r pre: citizens of London sto o d th e i r groun d, as had th el P decessors at the time of the plague. They f °11 : 2 ,1 ft . ° their own cost a board o f h ea l t h, w hi c h dissente 03,0 the views of Sir Henry Halford and the f . Gover u the medical men as to the cont ag io us character o f . t he disease. And what had b een the consequence ° Ass course pursued ? In P a ri s , w h ere the diseessyihjle treated as contagious, the deaths were as 1 10 4 T o roc e ; in London, which had t a k en it s own course 4 01. dare, the deaths had been i n th e p ro p o rtion of 1 a l efir of the population. These were proofs that the T or itisg' ment of local affairs ought to be left to local au h t ,, ps whose exertions ought not t o b e p ermi tted to m - n ee "; lysed or deadened by the i n fl uence or interfere dia e o Government commissioners. —(Hear, hear.) 11 1 , 8 he 01 „ ' think he should do service t o th e caus e whir' h i s cerely advocated if he said more than to expres s ; 00 fit r l e viction that if this Bill sh ou ld pass w h a t e ver the ", a ; 1h ; 0 might choose to submit t o , the city of Londo n n 001' metropolitan districts would not tolerate such a in being applied to them.—(Hear, hear.) t o 104 op L en or t d he A H SH oo L se E t Y he sa a i h d se h l e ute w a a n s d v i e o r d y i :nxions es''" of commencing some measure calculate P d en t s o a r b e leinlie t : ece s ille i vances which weighed so heavi on the -° ow e classes.—(Hear, hear.) Noble Friend (Lord Morpeth) had said the other night that t" is ; eel e " working man's Bill. Hi s Noble Friend fl ui e d b uttered a truer thi ng . Th e measure was connect at h d the working man's whole existence. it begar fe uel le a f home—it aff e ct e d hi s capac i ty to go a b ro ad --s" e ses :43 " his health, an d it i ncrease d or diminishe d his °Ld obtaining a li ve lih oo d f or hi s w if e his fareq , - self. This question, formerly unknown to th e was now well understood by them, and its oOct be ll . ment was one of the deare s t objects they bse l . , 11 ,011: 0 1 Hence it affected not m e rely th e ph ys i ca l ned; O t dition of the working clas ses , b u t a l so their iirt4,ed, content or discontent, just as legislative Inet ° ; e ler',A. sanitary improvement were adopted or 13`' did Ho did not deny that there were g re let, P et culties in the way of le g i s l at i on on t his su'' l es d i e that it required great in genu i ty an d per seve- for ' 6 l, devise a measure which should be an antirlotsexist prodigious and intolerable evils which at prese lit , be, °fi g ; But the greatness of these difficulties could 0" p reie> ought not to be, any argument for stopping ! A i l 'ati °r3 hiO measure at the very threshold of its due cons l " - ,, r e W r io• namely, in Committee; and he (Lord Ashley) Ptlis,;; 0 11 Noble Friend opposite (Lord Morpeth), and t ° „ vernment, the highest praise for the manner "" fi ed e e they had addressed themselves to this questionwelll e , mode in which they had encountered those r l i fe soit h te e t, At the same time, he fairly told them that, in ',ll O the Bill was susceptible of great improveiverecl whether or not, he (Lord Ashley) ir° l 2 l „ ° °PPR - House to let the Government have t°`' ; ' t ee, " 11 0 tunity of dealing with the Bill in Coo gO l , O O cause it was a measure which had alre a t ,"„ i t it f . os strong a hold upon the minds of the people, bet, th e essentially necessary to prove to them in 'Jets"' or e s' or was not feasible in respect to the reol °" .eet s -, 0 various abominations to which they were at Pr e i t ov posed. It had been stated that the existing alto sufficient to effect all p urposes. The law was gib° remove nuisances provid e d men had the meall.,:d 10 law; but still th e y were insufficient or unecl"oe to 1 ,0 institution of improvements, especially in refer e9 re tor ° ,, go due and sufficient supply of wat e r, and the t` i ",f) repeated his hope that the Bill would be all (:) ,"Asb ( 6" io for investigation in Committee. He (1 ,01.u 4 oty t it° should not hav e ven t ure d to address the li e d les%j e 00' subject, had it n o t b een f or the observations The the House the last night of the debate bY 1 ; 0 5 0 0 0 Member for West Surrey (Mr. Drummond), tad of' that a number o f i nterested persons ava iling d gone' t ibta o aina f otrin t akT h .gee e idtat f Aa e ietn e sia l o i sth n nuhe g rei which prevailed in the country' "; cl c ; been actively (e n eiLovn hon e gro r atd d lghe e eAi r sdos t fh o t c ehy a i r )s r yhaad movement—asb emeasureen inoo f t_ t h. b uiee . i s tiehrf i d i l del pp - 0c o s himself a share of as much blame s i o n h t i b e e t e , n h d e e w a e T s ou r r ea t d o y o u tc Li cl o b e efi e o o l a , CO- she o r upon the proceeding; but he would leave it / Tad , A ttid; Member (Mr. Drummond) to show that be be bey) had exhibited a grain of selfishness in t Istsw e ol —(Hear, hear.) And he would ask the 110 0 : c c ees a 10 whether, in the opposition to the measure, thriregsrive' something of selfishness, and a low and mean L b° rr ?( hear.) when ose°9 felts Membertreated the subject with so much P deeP must have forgotten, or never have known t h e nn it, toil ing which existed through the country u Pierg u s 0 0 , could not have known that in almost every a buse e O 3 local boards had been formed to inve sti g u i t a e n i i i ng I : ° oo 3°' to make periodical reports which, from b e g s as s showed one and the same complaint of t lw at e ndti t io° Tuley of the law for the removal of the g re w) P et be e s' ing evils they denoun ce d. There had [ g e ne to the fo ot!: from the city he represented—one preYl lo t ; empted from the Bill—the other from give Iv te LO to t . t iro e . calling upon their representatives not local influences, but to make it subservie j , / 3 1 neral good. He (Lord Ashley), therefore, be lilt o f/ t.t, liberty to act as he liked, and, acting oti pitte e e ' e pie should vote for the amendments a uto C ° there introduce such as t° ~.4 _ THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, 'M A Y 9, 1848.