The Sun. — London, England, 1848-05-17 00:00:00

.1•••=. 0. it 11/ acumbent on Parliament to give adequate en courai ;tment to the colonists, and to allow them a rea sonat Jle time to make a fair trial of free labour, by the rem' aval of all improper restrictions in the obtaining and employment of labour; to ere - came in the colonies ihe earns strict system of vagrant laws which are in force in flatland, and to make them applicable equally to the black and to the white population; and to allow the cOloniste to reduce their establishments and fiscal charges to the lowest amount they shall judge requisite for the pollee and municipal services of the colony. Mr. BATESON moved for returns of the number of persons in each county in Ireland whose tenements are rated to the poor at the annual value of 8/. ; of the number rated above 81. and not exceeding 101. ; above 101. end not exceeding 121. ; above 121. and not exceed ing 151. ; above 151. and not exceeding 181. ; above 184 and not exceeding 201. ; above 201. and not exceeding 251. ; and above 254—Agreed to. Mr. BRIGHT presented petitions from Heywood and Ashton-under-Lyme, praying that som e measu re should be passed to limit the sale of intoxicating liquors on Sunday ; also a petition from a Mr. Holland, surgeon, Manchester, praying the House not to make any impor tant alteration is the provisions of the Health of Towns Bill. Lard CASTLEREAGH presented a petition in favour of the Sites for Churches Bill. INDIAN MAILS. Mr. HENLEY asked the following questions of the Secretary of the Admiralty, respecting the conveyance of the Indian mails :-1. Whether, in accordance with the decided opinion expressed by the Committee of the House of Lords, any inquiry has been instituted into the cost of the execution of the former contracts for conveying the mails from England to Alex• swirls; into the manner in which the service has ireen performed: teed into the profits resulting to the con- Vriii;ctors. 2. By whom such inquiry has been made. 2. Whether the Government proposes, on the part of the public, to continue to pay the present heavy charge for such communication. 4. Whether, in any future con traces, the Government propose to adopt the suggestion of the Committee of the House of Lords, that the public shall be secured, by adequate provisions in the contracts, participation in the profits, when they shall exceed a certain per tentage on the capital, access to the accounts, and a full knowledge of all the transactions of the several companies with which agreements may be entered into. 5. Whether any department of the Government, and if tiny; which, will be rt sponsible to Parliament that the contracts about to be entered into shall be just and proper. Mr. WARD stated, in reply to the first and second questions, that he thought it was generally understood that the Admiralty had no power, under the contracts, to insist upon such an inquiry as that pointed out ; but the Commissioners had consented to admit an agent of the Admiralty to in spect their books, and as the Admiralty intended to satisfy itself in the matter, Captain Ellis had been appointed to make the requisite investigation. With respect to the third question, he had to stat e that the Admiralty had taken the best precaution they could in inreducing their charges, with a view to the public terests. With respect to the fourt h query, he wa _ Eructed to state that the Admiralty . did not think it advisable to appoint an auditor , be lievin g that they pos sessed a mach more effectual ch eck, in opening periods tally the contracts and accepting the l o wes e t ts te t n h d e eLa rat for the proper carrying out of the contra ralty was responsible. THE MAURITIUS. isoi.d G. BENI INCIi wished to ask the Hon. Gentleman, the Under -Secretary of State for the Colonies, if he had any objection to lay on the table the official letter which he received on Satur day last from the " Mauritius Association," which gave a very different picture of the condition of the. colony comas ed with that drawn by the Hon. Gentleman last evening. Mr. HAWES had not the least objection to Inv the memorial on the table ; in fact, he was infiebted to the Noble Lord for calling the attention of the House to it. It only arrived last evening. He maintained that his state ment was perfectly correct, and he did not wish to retract any portion of it whatever, namely, that the acccounts received up to the 4rti of February were more favourable than former communications had given them reason to anticipate. The memorial stated that in February the ' price of sugar was higher is the Mauritius than in the home market, and attempted to de duce from this fact that tigrs proved the distressed condition of the colony, and - 1 - 4hen it was laid upon the table the House would judge whether the statements were worthy of credence or not. TOBAGO. Mr. GOULBURN wished to know from the Under- Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any infor mation had been received by the Government relative to Tobago? Mr. HAWES said that the Government had not re ceived any information. CATHEDRALS AND COLLEGIATE CHURCHES Mr. HURSMAN then ruse to move, pursuant to notice, that an humble address be presented to her Ma jesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased to direct an inquiry to be made into the state of our cathedrals and collegiate churches, with a view of ascertaining whether they may not be rendered more conducive to the services of the Church and the spiritual instructions of the people His proposition was shortly this. These establishments were formerly endowed for public purposes, they were invested with large powers and large properties for en couraging charity and promoting education. For a long series of years these establisments performed the functions for which they were originally founded with vigour and effect; but in late years they had fallen into a state of torpor which was greatly detrimental to the interests of the Church, and utterly opposed to every principle of Christianity. To convince the House of this he need only bring under the attention of Hon. Members the present state of the see of Canterbury. In that see there were nine members of the Chapter, who, besides dividing amongst themselves 17,0001. a year, derivable from lands and property attached to the see, had in their possession the patronage of 40 livings, and were in the receipt of annual sti pends amounting to upwards of 8,0001. each. The question naturally to be asked then was, what did these functionaries do for all this money? What ad vantage was derived from their services or conferred upon religion? He had made an inquiry into this ques tion, and it was melancholy to state that they did abso lutely nothing that was at all calculated to promote the interests of religion. Bearing in mind the large provi sion that was wade for the comfort of the chapter, let theca now see what the chapter did for the public. The services performed at Canterbury—of the character of which he should have something to say directly—were two a day; and he had obtained a return of the number of persons who attended these services on two of the finest days last week. At the morning service the offici ating parties nearly equalled the congregation, the nun berg being 22 against 25; while in the afternoon the num bers were 23 as against 53: but Canterbury presented a favourable aspect in this respect compared with othersees. At Durham the return was so extraordinary that he had it taken over again, and for three days, instead of one, and he found that on the morning of the first day tin number of official functionaries was thirty two, and the number of the congregation four.—(Laughter.) the'afternoon there were thirty-three functionaries pre sent, and the congregation numbered thirty-seven; and in the two following days the attendance was nearly the same. Taking ths three ditits together, the number of officials present was one-third more than that of the congregation.—(Hear, hear.) Oxford was also remark able ih that respect, fur the officials numbered fifteen, and the congregation eighteen; and at Lincoln the congregation only consisted of e i g h t persons, w hil st the number of officials present was 24.—(Hear, hear.) And as tar as he had been able to judge, those richly endowed institutions which ought to give every encou ragement to persons to attend the services, were shunned by the public. At Canterbury, out of a population of 15,000, the average attendance at the cathedral was only 39. Indeed, it was an universal fact that in :o proportioe to the richni ss of the cathedral institutionsthe poorer were the churches in the city, and a me morial which was presented by some clergymenof Canterbury to the Ecclesiastical Commission, it appeared that the highest salary of a clergym en there, with the exception of one, was 1401., and the lo ws , t 751., and that the salary of the whole clergymen did not amount to more than the salary of one member of the chapter. The Hon. Gentleman then called the attention of the House to another return, showing that the attend ance at the Established Churches at Canterbury was 5.700, and the attendance ae Dissenting Chapels 4,800. Thus the Established Church had 8,000, and the Dis senters 3,700. The largest attendance at the churches of the Established Church was 3,200 ; at those of the Dissenters, 2,67 o—whilst the number of scholars who attended the former was 647; that ut the Dissenters 610,—(Hear)—so that the whole attendance in tavuur of the Church was one seventh, and one fourth in favour of the Dissenters in this richly endowed city of Canterbury. In the fifteen churches belonging to the Church, there was service in ten only in the morning, in the afternoon in seven, and in the evening in five : so that in fact one-third of the churches were shut up on Sun days in which morning service should be performed, and more than two-thirds of them were closed in the 'vetting. Nuw in these fifteen churches twenty servioes only were performed, whilst ulr the nine Dissenting chapels as many , were performed, showing the great activity of the Dissenters. —(Hear hear.) If this was the state of the churches of the city, it could not be expected that the chapter took greater care of those in the rural districts, conti g uouse to the town. Ten of these were visited by ses district committee, and it was found that in nearly the whole of them but one ser vice was pertortned on the Sabbath. In several of them service was only performed on alternate Sun days ; Jew had a resident lii the and none pos sessed any ' schools. thpoorest parish—Trinity parish, in Dover—the incumbent either came himself or sent his curate once a fortnight, and the one or the other preached either in the morning or afternoon but in the wi nter months t here was nu service whatever. , __(geal., hear .) 'hen th ere were several hospitals i n Canterbury unde Pthe eat offices mana gemen t o f t h e poor of the town. chaplere—hospitais for the decayed The nomination at the poor men laid with canons, and what did the House suppose was the ;course that thatibudy ? Why, e m ac i. o un n astteel C d r o o l ef t nomi natingrvahnat, had been adopted by men ,i the m y poor r.. ha A d rch n d i of their own, an. actually appointed Mr. Aust i n, one of the most wealthy men of Canterbury, one of the poor brothers, and Miss Austin one of the poor sisters.—(Hear, bear. But that was not all, Archdeacon Croft had astall in the' Church cathedral of 1,900/. a year, and other ha emoluments aulonclieg altogether t 4,3,5001., and with all that he h d d not he,sitsited to adopt urse to which he a referred. Nothing. in. his opinion, cculd justify the carelessness that robbed the poor people of Canterburyof the benefits TIIE that were intended for them by the benevolence of their ancestors. He had dwelt at some length upon the case of Canterbury, and he would now call upon the House to look to the case of Lincoln. The course that had been taken by the Commissioners at Lincoln was most remarks's'. ; they made a reduction in the stalls of all the cathedrals of the kingdom, but they made no reduction in the stalls of Lincoln, but instead of that they created a new one. There the chapter was left in as uncontrolled power as before the appointment of the Commission. There were some very curious facts connected with the see of Lincoln. The members of the chapter had 2,0001. a year each; but it was difficult to say what duties they performed. He confessed he had never been able to discover from any one any accurate account of the duties performed by the members of the chapter. The Eccle siastical Commissioners attempted to obtain some infor mation upon this point, but it was certainly not very ample. The Dean, for instance, was asked what were the duties of his office. The reply was that the duties of the office were the ordinary duties ot a cathe dral dean—not very definite certainly. The sub-dean was then asked, what were the duties of his office ; the reply was equally as definite as the former. The reply was that the duties of his office were to assist the Dean in his office. The answer of the third officer was no less satis factory, for the Chancellor stated that the duties of his office were the ordinary duties of a cathedral chancellor ; bnt the answer of the fourth member gave them some thing like information. The answer of the precentor was that his duties were to superintend the choir, which, by the way, invariably devolved upon the singing master, and to preach a sermon once a year.—(Hear and laughter.) But there was something in connexion with the see s of Canter bury and Lincoln still more singular than this. In Canterbury the Commissioners pro posed to reduce the number of the chapter fromel twelve to four, but the Chapter pr otested tha t t w e at was not sufficient to perform the duties, Lincoln, where the Commissioners profpousred theto increase the number from three .to ( chapter ilear a ed Laughter.) protested that Let wshuaffiotcaieencot.m—. Previous to 1940 there were in the patron g e dean modation the chapter of Lincoln providedafoerotfhtehpublic. and chapter of Lincoln 96 parishes . ,; . t b h u es t e, th B at pr n o u d m oe b e e d r had since been cut down to 27. Or about 2501. ; 6, from 1501. to 2001.;andof these 13 wer e e se u a nd er e e r 1501. per annum. Of course the richest disposed of by the chapter among themselves. Of th e 27, only 11 had re sident clergymen, and in 9 others the clergymen had other duties to perform. He had re ceived a letter from a clergyman in Lincolnshire, stating that the churches in the patronage of the dean and chap ter were almost without an exception in a forlorn and ' wretched condition ; the churches were falling and the people degraded morally and intellectually; and that an alteration in the management and expenditure of the c to r a no t dm h eda of otherrl e property neolenrngtyr was y me t clergymen hadtloudlyhe reached ah c ee a hr l e, l called h fio m r , there . Similar was and, scarcely letters r mone c e l y a clergyman who did not deplore the present system. But what was the state of the churches in the city of Lincoln itself ? Formerly there were 52 churches. now reduced to 13, t h e patronage of which was divided g the members o f th e c h apter. Th ese cou ld scarcely amon be called churches, for they were miserable, decayed, dilapidated buildings, such as could not be found in any district under the control of a cathedral ehapter. Here, as in Canterbury, the churches were so served and the incumbents ill paid. Those 13 churches in Lincoln were held by 10 incumbents, of whom six have other clerical duties independent of those of their parishes. The highest stipend was 1501., and there was one as low as 681 per annum; but the income of the clergy of the whole of them was 1,4441. a year, or less than the income of one member of the chapter.—(Hear.) With respect to the provision made for the congrega tions, he had a return of all the attendances at the estab lished churches and all the dissenting chapels in the city of Lincoln on last Sunday. Be found that of the 13 churches nine only were opened for morning service, three for afternoon service, and seven for evening ser vice, and in all of them only 19 services were performed. There were present at the morning services, 1.013; at the afternoon, 175; and at the evening, 1,075-1 making a total of '2,263, out of a population of 13,000, inhabitants. On the same day the attendance at the dissenting chapels were ;as follows ;—in the morning, 2,565 ; and in the evening, 3,102 ; making a ,total of 6,667 in ten dissenting tckeapels, which had twenty one services. The greatest number attending the churches was 1,07.5, whilst the greatest number attending the chapels was 3,100, being three to one. He therefore asked again could these things be heard without feel ings of sorrow and shame, and would it be wise or just to permit such a state of things to exist ?—(Hear.) Ile had no return of the attendance at the cathedral, but he had a document to which he must draw the particular attention of the House, because it gave a better insight ,nto the services at the cathedral than could be gained Tom any statistical return. He had in his hand a docu ment, certainly the most extraordinary ever issued to a religious and Christian public. Ile wished that the worst which could be said ot the attendants at cathedrals were that they were indifferent or altogether heartless. But he would give the House a description of the attend ants at the cathedral service of Lincoln, written by no less an authority than the Dean, and addressed to the vergers, stall-keepers, and other officers of the cathedral, in these words:—" Whereas complaints have been made to me from several quarters, and I have likewise myself observed that persons are placed in the stalls, or most distinguished places of the cathedral who do not come within the rules of our church discipline, which supposes every one to be seated according to his rank, quality, and station—(Hear, heir, and laughter)—whence arise the abuses of—first, a total disregard of the rubrics, such persons often remaining in a sitting posture during the whole of the service, neither standing nor kneeling at the appointed periods—often, no doubt, from ignorance ; secondly, a system of talking, laughing, and jesting during the service, to the annoyance of their devouter neighbours, with such attitudes, gestures, and postures as would be unbecoming even in private houses ; and whereas, on remonstrance with some of these persons they have declared their intention to resist all attempts to reduce them to better order, I hereby require and order you—first, to exercise your best jedgment and discretion, aided by whatever knowledge of the persons you may possess, to admit no person whatever to the stalls who does not bear, or appear to you to bear the character of a gentleman." —(Laughter.) The document went on to recommend that all persons should be forcibly removed from the stalls who persisted in their ill behaviour after being remonstrated with. Under the circumstances it was no doubt very proper on the part of' the Dean to issue such a document; but what a picture did it present of the services of our cathedrals.—(Hear, hear.) In the memo rial to which he had already alluded, from the Dean end Chapter of Lincoln, they stated that their regular attendance upon the choral services of the church secured :o the public the full preservation of the most beautiful and striking solemnities of Christian worship, together with the most substantial comforts of daily prayer and thanksgiving. How did that contrast with the the order just read? That aas an order more fitted for those woo infested a public-house or a playhouse than for the attenders of a Christian church.—(Hear, hear.) And it was that of which the public had so much right to complain. It was wrong and unjust to say chat there was any want of sympathy with these establishments, or that on the part of the public 1 there was any want of acknowledgment of what had been owing to them in times past, or was due to them in times present. Cathedral stalls were an object of attachment to Englishmen; still more the magnificent Cathedral services. But for the abuses attached to them, there were few persons who would not feel for them all that veneration which could possibly be felt by the most deveut attender on these public services—few who would not say, with one of their greatest admirers— " Yet do these structures of our fathers' age Shame the weak efforts of art's later page— Say, whence the skill these darker times possess'd? In those true days men gave to God their best." He had also returns of he Sunday attendance at the cathedrals, but did not think it necessary to go into them, or to detain the Huuse much longer. But it would be a great mistake to suppose that the influence of the chapter was confined to the cathedral city; from she property in the neighbourhood, the parishes under their patronage and the preferments to which they ap pointed, it was obvious the chapters :must exercise very great influence, in every sense of the word, in the districts around. He had a return of seventy-five P shes within ten or twelve miles of London, al most"ery one of which had been personally visited, and regarding which he was furnished with the most urinatepatrris..hoesfdetails.,.t.here wer e only would give the House a mere sum au • Y the result of this inquiry. In the whole 75 resident curat es; ari3o reeident incumbents and 12 only 34 clergymen of any kind were resident in t heirleoundaries. In eight cases the resident clergymen hveci of connexion with at - Lincoln, either in conse quencerothe cathedral or some other mor in e l o st r er who officiated on the cause. In 22 cases the plurality, 45 parish. Of Sundays lived in some the 75 livings, 44 were held in non- resident ministers, 42 were w t h in S t h 4 a e s ny w parsonage house, and 60 had only one service hear.):Let it not be said that these cases Act o o non-residence were provided for by the m were in for be bad details to show that many of ' ame nt ; violation of the Act; that in some cases ~Pn ; a r.ntnaent s in plurality had taken place since the passing of the Act ; that in others, licenses for non-residence had been granted ; and that in other cases, the diocesan might have compelled the building o f parsonage house and residence , th bu e t ß h is a hop odnotfondon done so. So much had this evil struck time ago he had . published a very ed its which he said:—" I himself, that some of the Act. I a ne ra ira d b e l t e r c ea h i a n r e g d e oton provisionsetnhta.otreseubtjheect, to om the prevalence that n ofo dissent single in causethi this diocese contributedtohnaoththe. the too frequent practice of having only one service!. i _ Sun day. When the parishioners see that aresoldpeenntaciferognylv man, having the care of a single church, ~ o nce on the Lord's day, the impression naturally made en their minds is,'s that he is more desirous of consulting his own ease than of promoting their spiritual welfare, and that they should be disposed to turn to any teacher who professed to supply them with the spiritual food for which they hunger." He was very sorry to find that experience did not show that direction to have been acted ots ; fur it was impossible to conceive any district in a state of greater neglect than that immediately around the parishes be had referred to. He would now direct attention to the state of the clergy themselves. He could show their poverty, their privations, their sufferings; he could show cases that had occurred since he began to institute this inquiry, where it would not be too much to say that the clergy had actually died from starvation; he could show from the' ide il letters o o s f e gentlemen districts, thofat therethehi c g o h u e l s d t ncohtabreactaermorree t, harrowing tale than the sufferi n gs of those clergy. In- SUN, stead of that, he preferred placing the matter in another point of view; he would show the labours they under took, the exertions they made—the manner in which one portion of the clergy neglected their duty, while another performed more than their share. One of the latter class stated as follows:—" The rector of a rich living in my neighbourhood (it was sixteen miles off) had taken past ten o'clock - his family to the waterside. He sent his groom to me n to ex k t no if I could take morning. h s saidduty n a o: was engaged at t h f that hour, but that I w ould take it at twelv e o'clock." Sunday w There being no one else at hand, twelve o'clock was fixed accordingly, and the distant parishioners of this rich rector, who came to church at the usual hours, found to their surprise that they would have to wait an hour and three-quarters before the service commenced. At half past seven o'clock in the morning the clergyman who had been applied So left home on his pony to do duty at his own church, which was sixteen miles away. The service began at ten ; he got through it as quickly as possible, gave a short sermon, and then galloped off to the church of the rich rector, where, by dint of hard riding, he arrived just in time to do duty there, at twenty minutes after twelve. Here he got through the service again as rapidly as possible, and then galloped away other fifteen miles across the country to do duty for another incumbent, who was ill. The service there was at three ; he went through the duty, and then gal loped ten miles back, arriving late at his own parish church, where a small congregation was waiting anxious to know whether a parson was coming to give them e service or not. It was easy to suppose the state of fatigue in which this clergyman must have returned home late at night.—(Hear, hear.) This he did on eight successive Sundays in the dog-days.—(Bear.) But he stated that he had even dune hinder work than that. He said—" One day when Mr. M., who is very fond of shooting, had gone to the moors, in the month of August, and his neighbour, Mr. C., had gone to the lakes, in consequence of the death of his brother, one of these gentlemen sent to me to ask me to take his duty. I replied that it was impos sible. 'Master, sir (said his groom, who brought the message), will be very sorry to hear that, for he is sadly confused.' I said, ' Well, then, tell him if be will send me one of his hunters to meet me at Lincoln,ll will try to take the service for him at six in the evening.'" It was agreed upon that the matter should be so arranged. On the Sunday the clergyman started on his pony and rode to his first parish, 15 miles off, where his service was at halt-past ten. He had two parishes of his own; the second was two miles from the first; but he managed to take the service there at one. The parish of Mr. C., for whom he had also to do duty, was not far off, and he managed to arrive there in time for the service at balf past three. " Then," he continued, " I rode as hard as I could gallop to Lincoln, where I found a splendid mare waiting. I shut up my own pony in the stable, and gal loped 10 miles to Mr. 11.'s parish, which I reached at six. This I continued to do for three Sundays in the month of August; and to make matters worse, on one of those I was overtaken and drenched by an autumnal thunderstorm."—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") That was one case out of many, proving the hard' labours to which these poor clergy were exposed. In the memorial to which he had already referred, the chapter` expressed great alarm at any innovation, and referred to their past exertions in the cause of education and religious improvement, their superintendence of re ligious establishments, and their general influence on the state of the city; and they added, " We fear there i moving abroad a mischievous disposition to magnify. at our expense, the pastoral office and ministerial duties of those who are invidiously called the working clergy."— (Hear, hear.) This was no invidious phrase, but one which had originated in the distinction between those poor clergymen who did the work, and the rich who re ceived large salaries and emoluments, paying pittances to those by whom the work was done.—(Hear, hear.) To show how little had been done in these districts, in the way boasted of, he might state, that, out of 4,5001. a year received by the Ecclesiastical Com- missioners from the benefices of this diocese, only 4901. bad been laid out; and that out of 376 poor livings, they had only augmented 72. There were innumerable cases of destitution which had been very grievously neglected. Into these it was unnecessary to enter, or to go into the cases of o:her cathedrals; the two he had ad luced were sufficient to establish the po sition with which he set out. He could show in others the evils arising from the system of letting church pro party, whereby everything like improvement was put an end to.—(Hear.) He could show cases of chapter li braries containing rare and magnificent books, which anywhere else it would be a privilege to look into, but of which the last catalogue had been made in the last century. There were instances of persons wanting to visit these storehouses of knowledge, when none of the chapter knew who had the key, and where the lock was so rusty that the key would nut turn and the door could not be opened; and in one case, the party who had charge of the library key had complaint d of the great annoyance caused by a clergyman constantly coming to consult books.—(Hear, hear) 'These me morialists claimed to be the promoters of education; but he could show that they abused their trust as trus tees of grammar schools, as much as they did in the chapter; he could show lands and estates made away with; he could show—by letters to clergymen from the chapter themselves, who had become careless by long impunity —proposals as to managing the affairs of their churches which were perfectly scandalous. But in all these abuses nothing appeared to him so flagrant as the regulation which had been imposed by Act of Parliament directing that all the patronage vested in these chapters should be given to themselves, and precluding them from bestow ing any portion of their preferments on deserving clergy men in their neighbourhood. If there was one thing more than another which should have been encouraged by the Legislature it was the seeking out of deserving clergymen for the bestowal of preferments; but instead of that, Parliament compelled the chapters to divide those preferments amongst themselves, and forbade their being bestowed on others. They were to be given in the first instance to the members of the chapter, then to the minor canons, then they might be given to the master of the g rammar-school; and if within six months they were nut given to any of the three the patronage lapsed to the bishop. He had heard a reason as signed for this regulation which he would not now state; but if it were true, nothing could pronounce a stronger sentence of condemnation on the characters and pro• ceedings of these parties. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then referred to two petitions which he had presented from Wokingham and Carlisle (which have been printed with the votes), and read part of their con tents. He had now stated all he thought necessary to bring before the House. The two chapters he had re ferred to were a fair sample of the rest. He would now ask the House whether it was possible or right to allow these things to continue? There were many exemplary individuals amongst the members of these chapters ; he did not blame them, bet the system and the law ; and he wished to enforce a change in the law by appealing to the good sense and conscientious feelings of the Legislature. It these things were allowed to continue, in a very short period the evil must get ahead of us. there was not one of the cathedral cities in England in which the Dissenters did not show a greater proportion to the Establishment than in almost any other part of the country.—(Hear, hear.) 'lhankicg the House for having listened to him so long and so patiently, he would now move, " That an humble address be pre sented to her Majesty, praying that she will be gra ciously pleased to direct an inquiry to be made into the state of our cathedrals and collegiate churches, with a view of ascertaining whether they may not be rendered more conducive to the services of the Church, and the spiritual instruction of the people." Lord R. GROSVENOR said he rose to second the motion, in the absence of his Noble Friend the Member (or Bath. Ile was moat dearly attached to the Esta blished Church; but feeling it the best means of dissemi nating the doctrines of the religion he professed, and, oelieving that, despite some deformities, the great majority of the people were sincerely attached to it, lie was most anxious that it should be freed from the abuses alluded to. He earnestly desired its extension; but how could this be effected, either by public or private means, so long as pluralities and non-residence were.spffered to exist, and its revenues were misapplied?—(Hear, hear.) Without . committieg himself to every statement of his Hon. Friend, he begged to thank him for having brought forward this motion, by which he must have created many enemies, although actuated doubtless by the purest motives. The time and attention he had bestowed in procuring his details must have been most considerable. If only a tithe of what he had stated were true a com plete ease for inquiry had been made out.—(hear, hear.) He (Lord R. Grosvenor) knew enough of the cads. drat establishments to be convinced that such an inquiry would be attended with the greatest possible benefit.—(hear, hear.) Sir R. INGLIS feared that the Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Horaman) had overrated the intelligence of the majority of the House, in assuming that they were acquainted with the origin and nature of our cathedral establishments. For himself; he must confess to a very imperfect knowledge on this matter. But this question was not of so much importance as the inquiry what were the objects and duties of our cathedral establishments at the present day. In alluding to the metropolitical cathedral of Canterbury, the Hon. and Learned Gentle man had given a statement of the attendance there of persons officially connected with the cathedral; and this was stated to be twenty-three, rather a considerable proportion. As to the general attendance, it should al ways be borne in mind that cathedrals were not parish churches; they were not designed as places of worship fur as large a number as their area would contain, but rather to exhibit a model of the purity and ex cellence of our system of worship, to which the whole of Europe f urn i s h e d no e qual, removed alike frotn superstition on the one hand, and from levity or indecorum on the other. But he had seen statements which gave the number of atten dances much higher than had been would of course vary materially at different periods of the year. For instance,the himself to the accuracy of this ., 152. Without pledging much to be relied on as the other, he thought it as , B t u o t which implicit cre dence ought not to be attached. ' more ce serious con sideration than the number of attendances was this. He could not but fear, notwithstanding t and.n cathedrals he disclaimer of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, t i h g at the t tendency of his motion must be to cast an imputation on the cathedral system generally, which he alleged tended to the decay and the extinction of religion. This reminded him of a dissenting minister who declared that the Church destroyed more souls than it saved. How this could be said of a Church founded upon the pure doc trines of the Reformers, and cemented by the blood of martyrs, and boasting of prelates t he most pious and en lightened, he could not conceive. Against such sentiments • he must protest as wholly unjust. A minor point dwelt on by the Hon. and Learned Gent leman was, the income of the members of chapters. At Canterbury, he said, the livings of the dean and canons amounted to 8,0001., and But the livings in . their gift to 9,2001. ; in all, 17,0001. he bad failed to show that this sum went wholly to the LONDON, WEDNESDAY members of the chapter; and the public conviction was that such was not the case. But if the law were not violated, was it fitting that the state of the Church of England should be subjected to these perpetual uiscus sions year after year? Within the last 14 or 15 years the question of the income of the cathedral clergy had been taken up and fully examined, and a legislative measure had been passed relative thereto. It was said there were numerous clergy whose income was con siderably less than that of the canons; but why not make the same objections against the gradation of rank and income in all civil and laical professions arising from the necessary inequality of condition? Such gradation he believed to be on the whole beneficial, though he was far from wishing that the incomes of the poorer clergy should be so low. He would not pull down the high, but elevate the low. He should as soon think of taking the incomes of the aristocracy of England and distributing them amongst the people as of taking the incomes of the hierarchy of the Church to aug • ment those of the poorer clergy. He maintained that in this respect there was no difference between Church property d of any other kind. It the income on was to be taken away, they good e a right to seize that of hecorporation The Hon. and Learned t would o apropertyufld thea o e Bishop j and just s d London.t as nfLe Gentleman said that with the exception of St. Martin's, which was the mother church of England, the incomes of the incumbents of the other Is livings in the neigh bourhood ogsdree chapterato t ntf e hy dec more nin t on i tf a rce t eroc ; bm, Canterbury stay u en, t r ohtwt hr h ,ty, ihs a l :ee t of the ca t hedral of Canterbury were very They ) churches small.t i r l e ei ene (Sirnt w ha et i t i hr neighbourhood d e g e a l t i n a s ou f a r h n r The Hon. and a s n ,7 d o( L ) Gentle manaetatrenneddedthel6 and gtihobn d e issentin g c h ape l s . H e w i s h e d members of th e Ch urc h o f Englani; at a greater braagh t d t s distance. an eh accusation against th e d ean a . chapterc4 chath,Bn or ()eahl pleespr thatesircnsn persons h,pewo attended p e nur were a i but the tact that there were 4,800 persons attending dissenting chapels in Canterbury did not justify an attack upon th e dean and ch m d ii t in ha fo t rm th e e d i n n um th b a e t r r o e f' d a a p i t l e y r. serv T ic h e e a t Hon.ch Christ church, " H ee on. and L ea r ne d G ent l eman that but 18 not officials Learned Gentleman athlelmesshouchdneadi n o amht ffi utne c srn i tn a dh l he, daipersons.vhelio He thought been very vg o weh rat attended spect, because he could say from his own experience that the cathedral of Christchurch was most numerously attended. Every place was occupied, and the congreca don was as attentive as in any parish church in England. —(Hear, hear.) He could also state that the cathedral th body there charged the tithes with 3601 . a year, for the and purpose uo e of augmenting e the livings ot the poorer clergy, colleges sacrificed 2001. a year for the purpose of increasing one of the small vicarages. The Hon. and Learned ,Gentleman, however, directed his attack chiefly against the cathedral of Lincoln, and said that in the year 1831 an income of 6,9801. was divided amongst four individuals—the dean, the sub-dean, chan cellor, and precentor. He could not say why the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should select the income of 1831 rather than the income of 1848 ; but in the first place he would remark that no person had a right to m-ike an inquiry respecting the income of another, whether lay or clerical, unless he asked for an increase. Ile might say, however, without breach of privilege, that the income of one of those individuals was 1,5001. ; and he would ask the House whether that was too large a sum for a person filling one of the higher stations in the Church ? But he received 1,500/. for the first year only. The second year he received but 1,1001., and this, the third year, his income was 8001. only, out of which he had to pay 2001. for the building of a house. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then went on to Carlisle Cathedral, in respect to which the Hon. anal Learned Gentleman's celleague (Mr. Aglionby) took every opportunity of asking the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State when he would introduce his Bill for the compulsory enfranchisement of copyholds. That Hon. and Learned Gentleman held a beneficial lease tinder the dean and chapter of Carlisle, which he wished to convert into a more beneficial freehold.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr Aglionby.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman quoted from a celebrated petition, which stated that the dean and chapter of Carlisle had an in come of 20,000/. a year in one county, the fact being that their revenue from the three counties of Northum berland, Cumberland, and Westmore land, was 17,0001., of which they received only 3,3001., the other lion. and Learned Member for Cockermouth, and other lawyers, receiving the difference. The petitioners, however, told their own story, and they left it to be inferred that the dean and chapter received all the money. They stated that the dean and chapter re ceived 2,0001. from the parishes of Wetheral and War wick, the actual income which they received being only 3501. He could not see why the dean and chapter should be called on in their character of lay impropria tors to supply the spiritual destitution of those places out of an income of 3501., whilst others were receiving the difference. The amount received by each canon of the cathedral of Carlisle was 5301., which could not be considered too much for those who occupied a pre-emi nent position in the Church. He hoped he never would a ig s dnu s ot t y r r o ann n f g t so far forget the principles on which lie always acted as to be unmindful of the spiritual destitution of the coun try.wthethose e as se whofelt personal were , e t neagrs the hthe stated national ta t instruction d o n t oa s t. l ; p y ro e h m e h o t former occasion, and as all subsequent inquiry con vinced him, that could not be done by individuals. It could not be done by the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet. What could be done by that plan had beau done, but the spiritual destitution of the people was not diminished. He agreed in the expression of the Noble Lord that civil and social prudence, as well as the religious duty, called upon them to provide for the instruction of those who were spiritually destitute. There was no better guarantee for the permanence of their institutions, and the rights of property, than that the people should be religious and educated. flow were these to be imparted to them ? All their exer tions, and al the exertions of the Dissenters, had failed to overtake the amount of destitution which prevailed. They should not look to an altered distribution of the church revenues, which had already been carried as far as it could be carried, or to any other extrinsic means, but to national aid; and the nation would tail in its duty if, while it provided at the public expense for all the other interests of the country, if, neglected and disre garded that which he believed to be the most vital and essential of all.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. AGLIONBY said that the Hon. 'Baronet had made a most uncalled-for and unreasonable allusion to him personally, and he could not conceive what had caused hire to do so; for, although he cordially sup ported the proposition of his Hon. Colleague, which he hoped would excite that attention in the House which he knew it excited throughout the country, he never said anything to justify the Hon. Baronet in alluding to him as he had done. It was true that be had asked the Right Hon. Baronet the t'ecretary of State when he would taring in his Bill for making compulsory the enfranchise ment of copyholds, and he would continue to do so again and again till that odious custom was abolished. It was true that he was a leaseholder under the dean and chapter, but that had nothing to do with the question before the House. He did not think that the dean and chapter of Carlisle had a right to tax skill, capital, and labour, and to reap where it never sowed. The Hon. Baronet alluded to a petition which had been presented to the House this session. Ile thought the dean and chapter bad reason to say of the lion. Baronet, " Save me from my, friends." He did not wish to cast opprobrium on individuals. What h . e found fault with was the system. Now , t he petition which the Hun. Baronet alluded to contained statements, some of which he himself knew to be true, and the others he believed to be true. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman here read several of the statements in the petition, to the effect that the duties were performed by curates, who received only 201. a year, and in many instances smaller sums; that there was no resident incumbent, and that the parochial house was in a ruinous state; that two of the largest and most populous parishes, including the city of Carlisle, were served by curates, to whom the dean and chapter only gave 51. a year; that the incumbent of ano ther of the parochial curacies died in a workhouse. He thought it was a shame and a scandal that such a state of things should be suffered to exist, whether by lay or clerical impropriators.—(Hear, hear.) When seven out of the nine persons who were connected with the dean and chapter of Carlisle were the sons of archbishops or bishops, it was apt to create a suspicion, however wor thy the individual might be, that matters were not fairly managed.—(Hear, hear.) The petitioners stated at the end of the petition that they bad no reason to believe the other cathedral churches were beta r ma naged, and he (Mr. Aglionby) concurred in that opi nion. —(Hear, hear.) Col. SIBTHORP defended the clergy of Lincoln from the attack of the lion. and Learned Gentleman. He was sure that they would not object to inquiry ; and if one were to take place, the charges of the lion. Member would be found to be frivolous, vexatious, and un founded. He had two relatives connected with the church in Lincoln, and he should like to know whether he alluded to either of them. He did not know of what f religion the Hon. Gentlem an was, or h w e le s e u ttr e r h nt, e a was of nd he any.—(Order.) He felt strongly on t he did, when the thought he was justified in speaking as fL' col t Honourable Gentleman a ccused the clergy o n o would be most conduct which, if they were guilty of it, disgraceful to them. Mr. HORSMAN said he brought no charges against individuals. What he complained of was the system, 1 Col. SIBTHORP said the living of Washingboro was one of those which was included in the limits of ten miles around Lincoln, and if that did not give him a right to complain, he did not knovr what did. Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE quite agreed with the Hon. Mover, that his motion had in no wa y been based. upon personal assault or individu al attack. The question had been based, and very prop d, based, on the operation and administration of the law, and in that view he was himself about to treat it. Th e question being, whether e t the state of the law was o ne which required amend ment,he it h though t he admitted that on t be left permanentl he y law was not one which ought to ace without alteration. That law broke up the old cathe dral system, and very much reduced its efficiency. It bound the canons to residenc e for three months out ot every twelve, but it left the d efinition o f that residence very doubtful, and it left other matters in a _veuryalif.tinuetso tionable position, which it would be most d have settled. He confessed for his o wn part that ho should lik e grea tly to see the systei ra t sh reconsidered ould be the Everything connected with learning, duty of the cathedral dignitaries to so me wayl este B that promote,Ca and the Act Was Very defective in not ins istin g in • d bl'il lions should do something to ren d er cathedral meats conducive to the promotion of theological learn ing. He should be glad to see some of the stalls appro priated distinctly to educationa l p ur p oses, whilst others were m a d e avail a ble to the furtherance of the parochial ministry, In the case of the former, permanent resi. deuce would be required, and the holders of the stalls should h ave no otter preferment. In the latter case (the stalls held by persons having charge of large EVENING - , MAY 17, lB4B. parishes), residence of course should not be insisted on, the objects being to conned the parochial clergy with the cathedral churches, and in these cases, also, the, clergy holding the stalls ought not, he thought, to re ceive arty large share of the profits of the cathedral property. Taking this view, he could not but hope that, when the pressure of public business permitted, the at tention of her Majesty' s Government would be directed to this subject. He did not desire to pare or cut down the revenues of these cathedrals, and if he said one word in their disparagement it was only because he believed they might be made far more conducive to the general purposes of the Church. Lord J. RUSSELL agreed with the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, that it might be very desirable to take some further measures with respect to the cathedral establishments. But he was unwilling, by silence, to permit it to be assumed that he entirely agreed with the way in which this case had been put by the Hon. Mover. That Hon. Gentleman seemed to think that these establishments were useless, and even preju dicial; his own view, he must admit, was that cathedrals might be made very valuable to the purposes of religion and of the Church. He must further say, that he did not think the Hon. Gentleman had taken a very correct view of several of Lhe points connected with the subject. For example, he was under a mistake in supposing that cathedral dignitaries were prohibited from giving their livings, except to any of their own body. Now, it was entirely in their power to give their livings to any clergy man in the diocese, who had served as incumbent or curate therein for a period of five years. Again. with respect to the construction of the Act, the Hun and Learned Member had certainly not attributed sufficient importance to what had been done under the authority of the Ecclesiastical Conimisson. That Com mission had power, under words which he (Lord Johi Russell) had introduced, with the assent of the late Archbishop of Canterbury, and the late Earl of Har rowby, to apply the funds of cathedral stalls and pre bends, to the cases of parishes having large populations, and to those parishes out of which local ties might arise. The Hon. Member's argument, therefore, certainly was not borne out that the first object should be to raise the incomes of livings merely geographically approximating to cathedrals; nor did he (Lord John Russell) think it would be desirable that such augmentations should be the first to be made. Differing from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, however, as to these points, he was glad to pay his tribute to his industry and perseverance in dealing with the question generally, and he was quite prepared to say that in the general spirit of his motion he entirely concurred. He did not pr cisely see how the plan proposed by the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, of appropriating stalls to the purposes of theological learning, could be carried out, because questions would undoubtedly arise as to how the most learned men could be selected ; but in any propo sition to appropriate the proceeds of stalls to the ad vancement of parochial objects he entirely concurred. Ii the House at all agreed in that view, be had only to ado that though there might be inconvenience' in agreeing to the motion in its present form, yet he thought the whole .subject required attention; that the Government would continue, as they had done, to give it that atten tion; and that be thought that the latter words of the motion, that " Measures to ascertain whether the cathe drals might not be rendered more conducive to the ser vices of the Church and the spiritual instruction of the people," ought to be adopted. Mr. HUME expressed his gratification at hearing the concluding words of the Noble Lard's declaration. lie adverted to the argument of the Hon. Member for th, University, that church property stood on the same touting as private property, and denied that such was the case.—(Hear, hear.) They must recollect that this property was derived from the public. He thanked the lion. Gentleman for bringing forward this motion. His statement of that night would go forth to the public, and would make a great impression on every thinking mind. Out of the Mon. Member's proceedings infinite good results would, he was sure, arise. Mr. GOULBURN said the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down seemed entirely to have forgotten that, during the last twenty years, material alterations had been made in the cathedral establishments of the country ; and he begged him to show how and when the property of the Church was given to it by Parliament and by the public ?—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the motion before them, he thought, after the speech of the Noble Lord, very little remained for them to discuss. He had never been a supporter of abuses, and it the abuses stated to-night, or any part of them, were found to exist he should be one of the first to assent to in quiry. With respect to the Hon. Member's speech, he agreed with the Noble Lord that the tendency of the Hon. Members's speech was the uselessness of cathe drals, and the desirability of their entire abolition. Ihe Honourable Member contrasted the small incomes of city incumbents with the large incomes of cathedra) canons. If the Hun. Member had gone out of cathedral cities to other arid more populous towns he would, per hops, Lave found the incomes no higher. Was it fair then to au) ibute the poverty of the clergy to the fault of the cathedrals? The fault, if fault there was. was, was with the law, or with the Ecclesiastical Corn missioners who administered it. The Commissioners, however, had only fulfilled the intention of radiomen , by meeting the most urgent cases first. The Noble Lure had referred to one instance of a mistake made by tin Hun. Gentleman. He would refer to another. In stating the case of Lincoln the Hon. Member said that the, income of the chapter there might go on augmenting But by 5 and 6 Victoria the incomes of the uean ann canons were limited to a specified sum, and if their in comes reached or exceeded that sum, the surplus woul , . go to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for parochial purposes. With respect to what the Hon. Gentlema, had said of Archdeacon Croft, he thought also that tin Hon. Gentleman ought also to have apprised the arch dsacon of his intention to make a serious charge gains him. He reminded the Hon. Gentleman that a cause of this sort was not promoted by a personal attack. But h► would say nothing more on that subject. There seemed, indeed, to be so much unanimity upon the question be tore them, that it was unnecessary. Mr. J. HEYWOOD was nut quite aware of what was the use of deans and chapters in this country. It up peered to him that in some respects they were draw backs upon the efficiency of the Church. In a recent case, for instance, they had endeavoured to oppose the appointment by the Crown of one of our most eminent tneologians to a bishopric. With regard to their ad vancement of learning he mentioned that when the Bri tish Association for the promotion of science held their meeting at Oxford, the dean of Christchurch was absent and nothing was done by the cathedral dignitaries for the advancement of scientific objects. Sir E. N. BUXTON was most unwilling to let any opportunity pass without thanking the Honourable Member for Cockermouth for bringing this question forward. It did seem to him, that, with a teeming population in our large towns, it was our duty to ap ply the funds of the Church to supply the necessities of a spiritually destitute people. Church property was only held by the Church in trust for the benefit of the people, and it ought to be applied for the relief of their spiritual necessities wherever they existed. He had heard with regret that any portion of that property was received by persons who did little or nothing for their monies. Mr. HENLEY said that the Hon. Member who had just sat down went rather too far in his doctrine of trusteeship, for he not only thought that the State had a right to see the trust performed, but also to declare what that trust was. This was but one step from saying that they could do as they liked with Church property. He objected altogether to this new fangled notion, and therefore felt a difficulty in assenting to the proposition that Church property was trust property at all. An Hon. Member had thought fit to find fault with the Dean of Christchurch, and had given then a version of what he considered to be the proper qualities of a dean. He had also favoured them with what he considered to be a scientific dean. And as it appeared that those notions of science were measured by the fact of whether or not a gentleman gives a breakfast to a great number of hungry sevens, by the same rule they might conclude that if he was to give a good dinner, with a good French cook, he would doubtless be considered pious into the bargain.—(Laughter.) This, he took it, was all the lion. Member could bring up against the unfor tunate Dean of Christchurch. He could not say that the case which the Hun. Member had brought be fore the House had convinced him (Mr. Henley) of the justice of the motion with which he had conclud, d. Going over such large fields as that Gentleman had done it was not difficult for him to dress up a case in the manner he had, especially whets he had got his facts to suit his case, instead of getting his case to suit his facts. The Hon. Member had certainly failed to convince him that any good could result from the matter. The mat ters in question were in the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners—a body of which he was not particu larly fond —(Hear, hear)—but he had no doubt that they would do their duty well; and if they did not the Hon. Member was doubtless disposed to keep a sharp eye upon them, and to bring the subject before the House whenever he could. Mr. HOUSMAN, in explanation, stated that the Hon. Member had misapprehended some points of what he had said. He had stated that those establishments which were endowed for great purposes, as now admi nistered, did not render the services for which they were originally intended ; and he conceived that such an observation was certainly not equivalent to express ing an opinion that those establishments were useless. Not one syllable had fallen from him about cutting down their revenues, or reflecting on them as use ful institutions. What he had said was, that the more valuable those institutions might be made, the greater was the shame if they were suffered to be abused. His principle was that certain duties should always be assigned to such offices. The Hon. Member for the University of Oxford had questioned the correctness of his returns, and the authority oa which he had made his statement; but he proceeded to maintain that the returns were in every case accurate, and with regard to the other point, that he made no statement unless he was prepared to give up the authorities upon which they were founded. He understood from the Noble Lord that without going to the length of issuing a commission of inquiry, he admitted the necessity of such an inquiry, and was ready to go into it. Under those circum stances he (K.. Horsman) did not feel it necessary to proceed with his motion, and would accordingly with draw it. FOREIGN POLICY. Mr. URQUHART rose to call the attention of the Rouse to the relations of this country with Russia, in reference to the events of the north of Europe. After some preliminary observations, he said that circum stances had recently taken place in the west of Europe which caused a sense of insecurity to be connected with the conduct of the foreign affairs of this country; and so late as the previous day in Paris a manifes tation of public feeling had taken place with regard to Poland which he conceived must point out the real sources of Europe's danger. The ,proposition which he was 'about to make was twofold. It was whether the Go iPernment had neoleoted that portion of the country's interest which was alone within the sphere of Govern ment to conduct, and if, in consequence of that neglect, another power had profited to an extent which pro mised to be dangerous to this country. He would prefer to place his resolution in a different form, and ho would accordingly make it an address for papers, which he .opposed thtre would be no difficulty in granting. The Hon. Members who had formerly advocated the cause of Poland had all disappeared, and while he (Mr. Urqu hart) felt humiliated at being left nearly alone at the task, he thought he must be encouraged by the House in the course which he was taking;when the condition of Poland was considered, and when it was also con sidered that England was in alliance with the enemy of that country. The object for which he claimed the attention of the House was not an abstract but a particular and clear object. It depended on the voice and opinion of that House, expressed on any one of the questions which turn the current of the public policy of this country—it depended on that House, the ally of Russia or of France, to sanction acts of injustice and public crime, or to make this country the protector of the world. It was for that he claimed its protection on that occasion; and if the House would only give the subject which he brought before them the same care and time which it would bestow on a railway enterprise, or any unimportant question, he declared that no possible injury could accrue to foreign affairs or from foreign dangers. In his judgment of the case, co which he had given a most thorough investigatian, he considered that it such was given there was nothing beyond the shores of the Channel that would present to England any aspect either of danger or embarassment, but, on the contrary, would present every opportunity !or the preservation of strength and security. 'I his country was in the habit of deciding on toe internal affairs of other countries as it they were its own. Ile asked, was the House aware, when it raised a ministry to conduct the affairs of this country, that it was also a ministry for the government of foreign states? The Government had brought the country into a most extra ordinary position at the present time in Europe, and he warned them if they did not restrain their present policy, that the tide would be turned against them, and they would tall a victim to the injurious manner in which its uff.tirs had been conducted. The origin of the anomalous and extraordinary state of things which was at present in existence was the Holy Alliance. That alliance had peen prompted by Russia, who bound Prussia and Aus tria, who became its slaves ; the accession of France rook place not directly, but in an insidious manner, and still under the direction of Russia ; Holland acceded likewise at her instigation ; and Swi•zerland acceded from the same cause ; consequently, the Holy Alliance was established in Europe to manage the affairs of na tions rit the instigation of Russia. It was well known that England had refused to accede to that alliance ; but he proceeded to maintain that the Government had, by their foreign policy, deviated from the principle which had dictated that refusal, and had allowed Russia to hold a supremacy which was injurious to the inte rests of this country and the other countries of Europe. 'The question was one of the deepest interest, and there was high authority for the supposition—in which he did not concur, but with regard to which, all that he himself required was that it should be con curred in—that the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Palmer ston) had been no match for the policy of that Cabinet. Napoleon had said, in reference to the position of Russia with regard to Europe, that all depended upon Poland, and that if Alexander succeeded in reconciling Poland to Russia, the Russian Government would have gained the greatest step towards subduing India. Poland was now the great question of Europe, and he regretted to say that the last time that country was in a state of revolution, namely, in 1830, her interests had been sacri ficed by England, as was fully shown by the dispatches of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs (which the Hon. Member read to the House)—that Noble Lord avowing in 1831 that his fears were not against Russia, but against France. He apprehended, judging from the conduct of that Noble Lord, that the same diplomatic agency which extinguished the life of Poland in 1830, would, now that she was no longer in a position to assert her rights, prevent its revival. Poland was the link between England and France, and if they suffered Poland to be destroyed they could no longer hope for any intercouse between these countries, or even between the East and the West. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that an humble address be pre sented to her Majesty, praying for a copy of the papers relating to the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi, and also for a copy of the correspondence that bad taken place relative co the proffered mediation of Great Britain between Prussia and Denmark in respect to Schleswig-Holstein. Mr. HUME seconded the motion. Lord PALMERSTON said he was quite aware of the power as well as the right which was possessed by every Member of that House to make a speech upon any subject without giving notice of his intention; at the same time, there bad beau certain rules framed for the convenience of the House, which, when departed from, were productive of much inconvenience. The Hon. ,Member for Stafford was somewhat prone to depart from hose rules. There was a saying attributed to a cele brated diplomatist to the effect that speech was given to ,uan to enable him to conceal his th.iughts; so also it would seem that the Hon. Member placed his notices on he paper in order to conceal the subject of his motion. ['he Hon. Member's notice ou the paper stated that it was his intention to call the attention of the House to the relations of this country with Russia, and instead of confining himself to that topic, he had sprung upon him (Lord Palmerston) two addresses for papers of which he had given no notice whatever. The Hon. Member had stated the,reasons why the Howe should ac ,ede to the addresses in question. The first of those mo tions related to the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi, and the second to the offer of mediation of Great Britain it re. .pest to the Schleswig-Holstein question; and the Hon. Member stated that it was necessary for those papers to tie laid before Parliament, in order that the country ,night perceive how Russia was combined with Austria for the purpose of preventing Prussian Poland from uniting with the other portion of that dominion hell by Russia and Austria. He could assure the House that the papers moved for would throw no light whatever upon that subject. The treaty of Unkiar Skelessi had lasted eight years, and was defunct, having been put an end to by the events consequent upon the Syriac war of 1841. That treaty had nothing whatever to do with the subject of Polish nationality. The correspondence which regarded the affairs of Schleswig-Holstein and the mediation of Great Britain with Prussia and Denmark, had no bearing upon the affairs of Poland or of Russia, and he objected to produce any such correspondence, as it might be highly prejudicial to make it public at pre sent.—(Hear, hear.) The House, he was persuaded, would not desire such correspondence to be pro duced.—(Hear,hear.) The Honourable Member for Staf ford went into a great many topics, but, he (Lord Pal merston) should abstain from following him in the argu ments or details he had entered upon. The lion. Member had expatiated. against the treaty of the Holy Alliance. He (Lerd Palmerston) was the last man in that House who would stand up and offer any opposition to the disparagement of that treaty by the Honourable Member. There was nothing in the policy pursued by the present Government which could be in any way as similated to the treaty of the Holy Alliance, or which either anticipated or would be supposed to lead to the consequences aimed at by that treaty. When the Hon. Member stated that the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs exercised a controlling influence over the affairs of foreign European States, he ascribed to the Govern ment of which he had the honour to be a Member, a far greater degree of power than the course of events on the Continent would bear out. The Government of her Majesty had done their best for the good of their coun try, as well as of mankind, and with some success in several instances, but with less good fortune in others— for they bad not accomplished all that they wished. But he certainly did not understand what the cases were that the Hon. Member put on the footing of having been dealt with under the policy dictated by the treaty of the Holy Alliance. Perhaps the Hon. Member alluded to Bel gium ; if so, he must remind him that the King of Hol land had himself called the conference, at which the terms of settlement between that country and himself were to be based ; and that conference had been called during the Ministry of the Duke of Wellington, the two first protocols having been signed, not by himsel', but by the Earl of Aberdeen, who was then Foreign Secre tary. Therefore, the lion. Member's observations on that head altogether passed by the present Government, and he was ready to accede to all that had been said by him respecting the treaty of the Holy Alliance. The ' Hon. Member then said that the whole policy of Eng land had been directed towards the promotion of the ob jects sought to be attained by Russian diplomacy. He (Lord Palmerston) was aware that the Hon. Member had a standing idea upon that subject--(A laugh)—and that it was useless for him to try to alter it.—(Hear, hear.) hph l ei l rwn l oehmureratsiotehosotbuyebl,dsneelsNofiaintyigniutsphtaeoenrndset(thwTueihneitdesruhybbjtyoec whit vh t e h i er e ); e m f therefore en w s h a in s a , d t t h h t ~hu i t er they served, : and thut they recognised neither national enemies nor national friends in foreign powers; but if they found a foreigu nation pursue a policy which accorded with their own they regarded it as friendly, and if not, they regarded it otherwise than as friendly. The Hon. Member had quoted a sentence from a book written by M. Louis Blanc, wherein that person attributed hostile' inten lions to him (Lord Palmerston) because he had said that in 1831 France was the great object of jealousy to England. H ow M. L ou i s Blanc could arrive at a knowledge of what he had thought he knew not, but as far as the statement in question was concerned, he must, observe that no English Minister could have made any such assertion, seeing that . England and France were joined together in effecting a great European object at the particular time when such a statement was attributed to him, and, consequently, when there existed the least possible ground for any jealousy on the part of England. The Hon. Member stated that it was t his j ealous y which ' hadprevleineteaddinthiettePl admitted that hatßussianationality from had rights re stored. i tsintimierthe treaty of Vienna, and he (Lord Palmerston) must remind the Hon. Member that the Government with which he had acted never admitted Russia to possess other rights than those already ceded to her by the treaty of Vienna , and certainly had never dreamed of going beyond the strict limits of that treaty. lie did not know whether it was necessary for him to an. swer the other portions of the speech made by the Hon. absent Member. It was on principle that he had objected to the course pursued by him. lie objected to the first address, because the papers called for would throw no light upon the subject, and he should resist the second address because he objected to the produc tion of any correspondence, on the ground that such a course would very seriously mar the negotiations that were going on between this country and Prussia and , Denmark. Mr. lIUME said that he was anxious to explain his reasons for having seconded the motion of the Hon. Member. On a former evening an Hon. Baronet had counted:out the House in a very ungracious manner, the lion. Member having a motion immediately pendiNg. When ho (Mr. Hanle) had met th© Hon. Member that d him day he told him that he should be happy to give the opportunity, of which he had been deprived, of bringing forward his motion, and on the ground that the House ought not to deny a hearing to any lion. Membe tr, he had offered to second the motion. Wi th r M e gard o the motion ilf whiht he concurred generally w i t h the Hon. embe t r se in , thinking that improper interference in foreign nations had too often taken place, he did id toe think he had made out a case for the production papers and correspondence moved for. Mr. K. TYNTE expressed his surprise at the conduct of the lion. Member for Montrose in seconding a motion which he subsequently ,determined not to vote for. ge hoped the House would not assent to the production o,e the papers asked for by the Hon. Member. Lord D. STUART ag not reed with the Noble L ord as to . the propriety of adhering to the rules laid do wn for : discussing any topic in that House without g ivit g and vious notice. At the same time, as th e known ana avowed intention of the Hon. Member for Stafford Was to call the attention of the House generally to the sta te of the foreign relations of England, he was surprised to hear the Noble Lord object to the speech of the i ilab' hgblf Member on a mere point of order. It was advisable that some Hon. Member should occasionallY call the attention of the House to the state of the foreign relations of Great Britain, and no one had more fre quently or efficiently dune so than the Noble Lorpritawshuli not seated on the Treasury bench. The policy by Russia had a most important bearing on Engl° ll _, ; * and at the present moment more so than ever, coesos dering the critical position of Europe. It was by me sn of Poland that Russia was chiefly connected with Europe• and that was the reason why she was 50 anxious to maintain her ascendancy in Poland. He could not avoid e takiog tios opportutitty of urging upon the at tentive the Government and the House the prese nt condition , 0 0 ' the unfortunate and oppressed inhabitants of Poland, wt, not only were tyrannised over for their ar dent and oun termined devotion to the cause of liberty , but had bee„t most basely and shamefully calumniated through Europe by the falsehoods sent forth by the Gern!73 press, and adopted by the press of this country. P e stood up in his place to deny the authentici t y of th?st calumnious statements, and he could not but regret toot his Noble Friend at the head of Foreign Affairs had 1)1v°, long since established a consular agent at Craco., through whose instrumentality correct information cotil reach this country, and thus put an end to those 0.11;. misrepresentations. From intelligence he (ord _ ei Stuart) had received, his conviction was, that the Fu4o. in Posen had not been guilty of any of the crue lties the enormities that bad been charged against them. 0 1 . 1 of contrary, he believed the Government and por e , e t Prussia were liable to grave censure for the collo% they had pursued towards the Poles, owing to th°,„‘; (dilating course of policy pursued by the King of s,r"„ t sia. Any barbarities that bad been perpetrated had a- c i been by, but against, the Polish people. Viittbj e vi gik o r n. to the motion before the House, he thought toehA `, Member opposite (Mr. Urquhart)'had gained hisbe and would be now indifferent as to the production abaci papers moved for. He thought the Hon. Mem ber p od done good service by bringing forward this subject, . fur it he (Lord D. Stuart) could not but expr ess to bll/1 his thanks. Mr. BLACKSTONE said that having. Vale 00 through Poland, he was bound to express bi s opi ipths that the idea of the nationality of the Poles wei must extraordinary chimera that ever entered a n Y of herd. So poor were the people that the majority ° towns were in possession of the Jews. hp , bpd Dr. BO WRING said that other Hon. Members been in Poland as well as the Hon. Member 18"°, last spoken; and there was some unanimity ie the belief that a great wrong had been done to that c ountrYt 0 8, in the hope that that wrong would one day be redresros by the re-establishment of Poland's nationality. w ith changes were there inevitable; and the e loque o o 3 ,,A In which the wrongs of the Pules had been deu ounc ;o l this House gave assurance that, ere long, redres s ; ° OW be obtained. There was a growing feeling, too, ' ll It many in favour of the same object.—(Hear, sad was not becoming, in these days, to speak of Polab) okete the Poles as the Hon. Member opposite bad 1,00 Twenty millions of people, speaking the same lari,i' er by professing the same religion, and bound tog e ''' p es" every tie, would, ut no distant period, re appear I s ba ld, tion, to which the public feeling of this country iv no doubt, much contribute.—(Hear, hear.) bee n on. Mr. URQUHART said his motion, having — l or eaf more with a view to obtain information tbgi other purpose, he would not press it. The motion was then withdrawn. In a Ofe ci Mr. BROTHERTON immediately rose , and that that the House do now adjourn.—(Hear, he ar ' ) Mr. H. BERKELEY said he should not 1,11 ',0 fit , tempted to bring on his motion relating to the ,lots so late an hour, but he wished to ask the Hon. to 116 for Montrose whether he would allow the ballot proposed as a separate motion on Tuesday nex t ? ran ' Mr. HUME declined to accede to any s uch ar 'nett le( went. Mr. BANKES postponed his motion for the rer d s l . )' the Railway Commissiou Act till to-morrow (.I,llllC› ADMIMSTRATION OF CRIMINAL ATP l ',„‘ Mr. BAINES obtained leave to bring in a Bib °f rtr further removal of defects ire the administration minal justice. WINDSOR CASTLE. Lord MORPE obtained leave to bring in a sts m a ra nd is i s m io p n r e o r v s em ol en l t V s e m mr e w a e lt r er th at e io G n o s LUNATIC ASYLUMS (SCOT oio L nd A tsh N : the castle and town of Windsor. A 1 , The LORD ADVOCATE the 1' moved that Committee on this Bill do consist of 110 1— $if the to , Members :—'file Lord Advocate, Lord AstH e iii James Graham, the Secret :ry at War, Mr. T ri 'c,"lo ll „ l i Charteris, Mr. Solicitor-General for Scotland,r• Mitre, Mr. James Loch, Sir George Clerk, Nielgund, Mr. Eo ward Ellice, Mr. Stuart Gibson Craig, Viscount Drumlanrig, Mr. P, 4 ,. °- ,fe r air. Home Drummond, Mr. Charles oward , guy, Mr. Swollett, and Mr. Fordyce. ipladp)p:roichlei; of tb Mr. FORBEs objected to the composition Committee. f " 14 11d' 1f Alter a few words from the Lord Advocate, A"°!1:0,, son, Mr. Hume, and Mr. Aglionby, the ra,se withdrawn, and the appointment of the Co mm be postponed until Friday. 13 0c )lise t 6 An HoN. MEMBER here moved that the sent, counted, and there not being 40 Members Pre House stood adjourned till this day. RAILWAY SHARE MAK E , 4 0 0 LIVERPOOL, MAY 16. , g sd v.„'ber STOCK ExcHANats.—The market is again cleP.,`" - . An i i t t, reports of disturbances in France. The sale s 71, 1 ;ics s iiit l gate, Nottingham, and Boston, 21,4 dis.—E 4s " Lau : 4 el!' 25/. Shares, 7y a dis.—Great Northern 9 3 / • 4 : 111 * h.ina l d4 sort- ig , 1. d ip and Yorkshire, Fifths, 1 dis.—London' and 131 1 / 2 —Ditto, New Quarters, Di —Midland 5°c,,,0.,inr• —Ditto, New Halves, 5 , ,i, dis.—Northi. Staffordshl;.-•11A —South-Eastern and Dover, No. 4, Thirds, 311 , ',s o ' 9 ' Newcastle, and Berwick (N. and B. ExtensinoP p.—York, and North Midland, 138 c. . cr I , shire,__ and ' Cheshi G re E. MANCHESTER, Mat 1 6 . l ad' tiO 4 S.rocx ExcHAN T Yorkshire, 32/. Shares, 7 1 ,: t dis —Ditto (West It 1.1;„. .tr ilL id• 3 318 r d Eastern d h i i: e — a , n 2 d D inl ; l ,, 6 r, 2d4isi3.--NDoir.ttthn. No. 4, 3 (A j 1. ) :-L,i - d_i* . , —The Ar-el-6 dßisir......ket.t..._,AncioDo.,irellieooer), Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincelnstisl.o-04;tle ence, f,, IA p.—North British. Quarters, 5 3- , l6 rgilic w-U .... 0 11 -- - ""r" -. -- _,,i, ,or [ADVERTISEMENT.]—THE EXTILAORDIPof 1 4, LACY OF HOLLOWAY'S PILLS I N THE C U ; ( II : f ° A I' re 3 ; HE_It ne s r E , V O E t EEcASE OF DROPSY. Vie w" -- p. .,, 0 0 0 t w 0,.4 ,:e; Gardner, Hanging Houghton, had been, ~,,,,g e°,, fe , fully afflicted with dropsy so bad, that she ".. - g o 0 1 ° ass to her bed and tapped three times in the to u rs rills , months ; she had then recourse to liollowsY c e 0 0 1 by steady perseverance and a strict adher bse P , - e bee 0 c system laid down in the instructions , ill e hpr e bo s ah till conquered, and for eighteen months past tu b - o - ot f i l; sr, no accumulation of water. She can walk . 11 7, - „r 0 0 ,; ( 1 s' greatest ease and comfort, and is daily g5 113 "7,0, s'',lo o ' strength.—These pills are sold by all drugg i- c j,De lj Professor Holloway's establishment, 214, StrAil Cosh cl IMPROVEMENTS IN THE Cal . L AIC 13 G e 7C1; s gi b ila During the recess the Courts of _Queens 7,osidsrocs Common Pleas at Guildhall have undergone e d , etll i r oll' bf e o l u t ri e i r dt a ihn t e i g o s n j;u s, d a tgh n ee d sp improv e m e nts: an entirelY Ine "61 111° sit cons been lic have enlarged, and increased seLu'uoii 'Poe att, ndance; the vestibules and afforded to the bar and witnesses, &e., w"diog t ?rolli o h r a t s ion b s ee o n f the cotururtesteadllott73d._lL,toe.slil r courts have been remodelled, apnadssaagreesni°e"rti P. 1611.11.43 lighted. 4 obo )0 0 ' AN ECONOMICAL RIDER.—AII innkeeP *he re. , l oi a postilion with only one spur, and itiquirea;,, osi 4 jot e Why, what would be the use of seeths' the v postilion, " if one side of the horse g° e ' cannot stand still." $t -- did, 41talia. ON fe- 0 1 ' On the 13th inst., at Claremont -place, ~., 9 0% 4 John's-wood, the lady of Edwin Fagg., On the 14th inst., at Albion-square, Da 4s - oa rs, t / ' Ridgeway Bartlett. of a daughter. Rus sell -s 4 S f r ESCP , ?' 00 , bfr . , On the 15th inst, in Bedford-place , rt tl ' — wite of William Banbury, jun , Esq. of a s ° ° • r John -. 1 _A 0 On the 13th inst., at lox -holes, the' lady o' 4110P' twisle, Esq., of a dahr. over 8% On the 15th Inst lithe wife of the Rev . the Charterhouse, of a son. 16 11 1 .1 j ., MARRIED. ,h 8 Il es'' vir i ; On the 9th inst., at East Budleigh, Devon , ` — to Vco Cornins, 8.A., assistant Curate -of Ottertno,nriff° Nugent, youngest daughter of the late Andr e ' s' ''ooa lsti s . " : Tucker, E,q., LL.D., of Ashburton, in the sons of P O, tu On the 13th inst., at Newport, ' near Borlicistss,occdo shire, Mr. Charles Hart, of Wych,street, Str an ' her lac ristO __.,/ Charlotte Caroline, youngest daughter of Esq., of the former place. .._.------- bi CB ' ao sp O ei n ma t n he s l w 2 a t i h ne i , n t s h t e ., iant;anTtfelooErnniaeo.yi W A . b i b v e h ll tt e in a gls c i i o 4 , 00 , 001? the e e 113th inst. : c K i er e : n u e i n ng ti t , o ( n u , r a a g t e e d o 6 f holm, Esq., surgeon, Sunbury, 3liddlcsex .0,00,0146*, On the 13th inst., Mr. James Spicer, uf Nevii . On the 13th inst., Elizabeth, wife of Vil icefi' astwrßarhig,_6h:coonn, dWdoaoudgbhinteerl'eafrini.ober; the ne'r. Prij Dir g. ntoor s T . h . atchain. On the 13th inst ,at Freeland Lodge , s' -- o r Smyth, aged 86. ' hersia, is' On the 14th inst ,in Albemarle -street, EuP• -- torl• 0 daughter of the late Alexander Smith, Esq: ~ ClsP, A ft of PP,"„i.roi i ,',,, On the 14th inst., Mr. Joseph Hawes, On the 12th inst., at 13edtbrd-place, HamPs".r. 00'400 an iliness of ten days, Harriet, the wite of Mr. idi '' t re lict " On the 12th inst., at South. end, Esse'' , Sztr e f o o t late T. Henington, Esq. At Bay's-hill-lawn Cheltenham, Ellett Ea l3l3l ' tb . OA Major A. Bolton, sth 'Dragoon Guards. c a nsel' On the let of April, at Engletield, ,--- Lieutenant-Colonel Robert Roberts Loting- _., ;,a, .- - _ --------1"012 10 iiijgDO 01)011:01, London : Printed and Fublished bi , OA* No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Vie '' sn '„ 00 Strand, in the Precinct of the SaV O Y , " Middlesex, Wednesday, May 17, 109. .9 4) * Toronto, Vii