The Sun. — London, England, 1865-03-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIANENT ROUSE OF LORDS-LAST EVEN - 131G. The LORD CIUNCEII,OII, took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Reading, Newport, and Yarmouth Railway Bill was read a second time. THE BRITISH MUSEUM. Earl STANHOPE said that he had given notice of his intention to bring forward a motion on the subject of the British Museum, and Mr. Walpole had given a similar motion in the other house. It appears, however, that the Government had devised a plan that would remedy the deficiencies in the present system of the management of the British Museum. Such being the case, it was considered advisable by the trustees of the institution that no discus sion should at present take place on this subject. His friend, Mr. Walpole, had withdrawn his motion, and he would follow his example. PUBLIC' SCHOOLS BILL. On the motion of the Earl of CLARENDON this bill was read a third time. BRITISH IZ AFFRARIA BILL. • The Duke of ARGYLL, in moving the second re ading of this bill, explained the circumstan ces which led to i ts being deemed advisable for the legislature to interfere. The Government of the Cape of Good Hope had impressed upon the British Government the necessity of dealing with the question of annexing Kaffraria to the Cape, and the object of the bill was to enable the Governor of the colony to take that course in the event of the legislature of the Cape of Good Hope not undertaldng it themselves. However, before vesting that power in the . Governor, it gave the le gislature of the Cape the authority to make the annexation themselves. Lord LYVEDEN approved of the bill in some particu lars, but he strongly objected giving the power proposed to the governor, and he believed the effect of annexing this military frontier would be to drive the Kaffirs further into the country, and eventually lead to another Kaffir war. Earl TAUNTON also objected to the bill. The Duke of ARGYLL, in reply, said the time had arrived when legislation on this subject had become indis pensable, and it was impossible that matters could bo allowed to remain in their present state. The bill was then read a second time. ELECTION PETITION ACTS (1848) AMENDMENT BILL. After a few words from the Marquis of CLANnIcARDE, The bill was read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING. The SPEAWV.x took the chair at a quarter before four. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a third time and passed : —Glasgow City and Suburban Gas ; Colney Valley and Halstead Railway. The following bills were read a second time :—Bishop's Castle Railway (Deviations, &c.); Brecon and Merthyr Tydfil Junction Railway (various powers) ; Crystal Palace New Railways ; Lancashire and Yorkshire and Great Ea.stern Junction Railway ; London, Chatham, and Dover, and London and South 'Western Railway Companies ; and Manchester and Milford Railway. PETITIONS. Col. SYKES presented a petition from certain Indian officers, praying for a redress of their grievances. Mr. Tim presented a petition from the Metropolitan Board of Works, praying for the removal of tolls on the metropolitan bridges. Mr. TREHERNE presented a petition from one of the deposed Indian princes, praying for redress. Petitions were also presented by several member; pray ing for a reduction in the duty on fire insurances. HARBOURS OF REFUGE. Sir F. SMITH Said that after Easter Monday he should move a resolution with respect to certain harbours of refuge recommended in the commission which sat in 1837 and 1859. POOR LAWS. Col. NORTH asked the Secretary to the Poor Law Board if, by article 115 of the General Consolidated Order of the Poor Law Board, dated July 24, 1847, any pauper suffering from small-pox or other infectious disorders could insist upon leaving the workhouse, in opposition to the opinion of the doctor, upon giving to the master, or, during his ab sence or inability to act, to the matron, a reasonable notice of his or her wish to do so. Viscount ENFIELD said neither master nor matron of any workhouse had power to compel any person to remain in the workhouse. THE BUDGET. In reply to Mr. J. WHITE, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he intended to bring forward his annual financial statement on the first day after Easter, that he thought would be Thursday, the 27th of April, Mr. WALPOLE said he should, under such circum stances, postpone bringing forward _his measure relative to the British l'iuseum until after the Chancellor of the E.-;ehe quer had made his statement. NAVAL CHAPLAINS. Mr. LEFROY asked the Secretary to the Admiralty if any steps had been taken during the recess to ascertain, through the Chaplain's quarterly returns, how far the chaplains have been able to comply with the Admiralty in structions directing clerical visits to be made to transports and small vessels of war not entitled to bear chaplains; if the revised edition of the chaplain's instructions men tioned last session had been issued; and if there was any objection to the annual publication of a precis of the Chaplains' Quarterly Returns ? _ _ Mr. CHILDERS said no revised instructions had been issued, but he might say the whole of the matter was under consideration. THE CASE OF MARY RYAN. Mr. SCULLY asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (with reference to certain official correspon dence as to the Irish nun, Miss Mary Ryan, called Sister Theresa), whether it was intended, on the part of the Government, to require that lady to be delivered up by the Belgian authorities. and whether he would lay before this house the case as to Miss Mary Ryan, submitted by his desire, in the month of October last, to the Attorney and Solicitor-General for England, along with their opinion on it. Sir G. GREY said he believed there would be no objec tion on the part of the Belgian Government to deliver up the person of Mary Ryan, but in her present state of health it appeared unadvisable to press for such a demand. CAPTAIN BEALE. He condemned the principle of the Government, and he could not-see why they could object to do as much for Canada as they did for Sardinia during the Crimean war. 'Pi ere were many things he desired information upon, an 1 ( re of the questions he begged to put to the Government was whether they intended to put a naval force on L ire Or tario. With regard to the reciprocity treaty that might hr.ve been ter minated in a moment of irritation, in consequence of the Confederate raids from Canada; but there again the course which the English Government should have taken was to have said, "Do not precipitately and entirely put an end to that treaty ; but assist us in modifying and amending it." In that case he believed the treaty would not have been terminated, and those numerous questions regarding fish eries and other subjects which had over and over again brought the two countries on the brink of war would not again be reopened. He acquitted the United States Go- vernment and the educated portion of their people of any feeling of hostility towards this country. On the contrary, so far as the Government were concerned, within the last few months the feeling had greatly improved. He was happy to acknowledge this ; and it was owing to the wise, discreet, and prudent conduct that had always marked the American representative in this country, who had done more than any man to maintain the peace between the two countries, and had conferred equal obligations upon his own countrymen and on ours. At the same time it would be worse than folly to shut our eyes to what might possibly happen, and that under certain cir- cumstanees hostilities might occur, The Americans were a proud, high-spirited, and boastful race ; and when intoxi- cated with success in their contest with the Southern Con- federacy what wouldbe our position? They would say that they had cause of complaint and just irritation against this country, for they had had their commerce swept from the seas. They had been told by their Government that the vital strength of the rebellion had been encouraged by the English Government setting the example of acknowledging the belligerent rights of the South. Papers would be produced by their Government, telling them that in Canada they had an easy prey at their feet, and was it- not likely that they would stretch out their hands and seize the prize ? That being so, the question we had to look to was set before us in the report of Col. Jervois on the defences of Canada, where the alternative was stated to be whether the British forces should be withdrawn to save them from defeat, or so increased as to constitute an effective defence for the province. As to the former alter native, ho did not think there were five members in the house who were prepared to adopt a course so disastrous and disgraceful, Then the question was whether the ne cessary measures should be taken to enable the British forces in Canada to be of use for her defence. His belief was that if that country were independent to-morrow she would not run the slightest danger from the United States, owing to various impediments, financial, industrial, and political, and that the United States would be content to see her independent and growing up as a prosperous country side by side with themselves. But that was not now the position of Canada. She was united with England and wished to remain so. And we were bound to exert ourselves to the utmost of our power to prevent her being brought into danger in consequence of her connection with us. What then he wished to know were our preparations for her defence ? What steps were the Government taking to carry out the recommendations of Col. Jervois, by strengthening Quebec and Montreal, fortifying Kingstown, constructing earthworks, ant-I.pro- viding an efficient force of gunboats on the lakes and the St. Lawrence ? Whilst the United States were actively engaged in making preparations for the worst, he feared that the Government of this country were taking the chance of the chapter of accidents, and that if we avoided a quarrel with the American people it would not be from the feeling on their part that we had put ourselves in a state of defence, but the lucky accident of their own forbearance, or there not arising at the particular moment any excuse for justi fying a war. Mr. W. E. FORSTER hoped the reply of tho Govern ment would be full and frank, and that they would let the house and the country know whether there were really any urgent need to enter upon the defence of Canada against a possible invasion by America, or any reason to fear that peace between the contending sections of the United States meant war with this country, Canada and the ocean being the battle-fields. A fear, or rather suspi cion, of that sort he admitted to exist, but he believed it was utterly groundless, though the very expression of such a feeling tended to create the feeling we dreaded. The hon. member further inquired whether any despatch had been received changing the grounds on which the question of the Alabama stood as between the two Governments. Mr. CARDWEL L was able without reserve to give an assurance that the relations between this country and the United States were perfectly friendly, and with equal con fidence and pleasure that there were no papers in existence unknown to the house varying the principle on which the question of the Alabama stood. With regard to the convention limiting the number of vessels to be maintained on the lakes by each power in time of peace, the Foreign Secretary had communicated to the United States Minister his desire to substitute another agreement for the old one ; and as soon as the notice to terminate the Reciprocity Treaty had been given no time would be lost by Govern ment in endeavouring to open negociations on a subject of such vital importance. As to the defences of Canada for the last three years the Imperial Government had been pressing upon her the necessity of making preparations in her own behalf ; and the reason they had not acted sooner was that, so long as Canada made no exertion and shot. ,d no readiness to come forward, it would have been wrong in her Majesty's Government to asl: the house for Imperial money to defend her. The mo ment, however, that she manifested the proper spirit, that moment it became their duty to invite the house to enable them to give her assistance. Quebec and Montreal being cardinal points in any system of defence, the English Go vernment had engaged to undertake the works of the for mer and the province those of the latter, but the armour of both places would be provided for by the Imperial Exche quer. Earthworks would bo raised in the course of the first year, and the sum of £50,000, as part of the sum of £200,000, was as much as could be properly expended dur ing the working period of the year. The first step towards the defence of the lakes was to have a port fcr coaling and repairing, and that was a question for the colonial, not the Imperial Government. What was contemplated in any future contingency he declined to state ; but if the time ever came that Canada was at war, war with Canada would be war with England. The imperial defence would be brought to her aid, and wherever that defence would be most effective in destroying the power of the enemy there it would be exerted. The defence of Canada must consist of British forces as a nucleus, but supplemented by the military power of Canada herself ; and he had the satisfaction of stating that efforts were now being made in a cordial spirit ; that large bodies of officers had been already trained to take command of the militia in an bmorgency ; that the number of military schools had been increased, and that prepara tions were making for bringing a largo portion of the militia to a condition for active service. Ho thought, there fore, that a fair and just preparation was being made for the defence of the colony. . Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, I do not think that her Majesty's Government, after placing the report of Colonel Jervoi:s upon the table, could have expected that the subject of the defences of Canada would have been altogether unnoticed by the House of Coml . :nous. (Hear, hear.) And, sir, I think it could not:bave been brought forward to-night in a manner more distinguished by its moderation, clearness, and accuracy than it has been by my hon. friend. I am sorry that the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Forster) should have considered that that statement and that expression of opi nion on his part favourably contrasted with another expres sion of opinion which he referred to as having been made in another. place. I am myself totally at a loss—speaking of course from the memory of the moment—to recal to recol lection any expression of opinion in another place by the individual to whom he referred, which at all justified the criticisms of the hon. gentleman. On that occasion, if I re member aright, recalling to the recollection of those whom he addrefsed the great irritation that occurred at the time of vywiehdatnahirscehiatynoff:alutpinrransooaswlfl y the Trent, now f our y ears ago , th a t indi confessargued, away without are C6W necessary c l aenisysaakhriyanvg ?" t y ahn o e u d,se s a pi l 1 1r., o e w ipt aerdeo appearsun er to be an argument very difficult to meet. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the opinion of that eminent statesman upon the general subject of American affairs—living as I do with him in the most perfect con fid ence, and having expressed in this house sentiments in re f erence to it—iea can only that in those sentiments he fully and comp l etely shared. say l am not myself conscious at this moment of ranking among those mortified and baffled prophets--(a laugh) —to whom the hon. gentleman (Mr. Forster) referred, and I can only say that I have expressed no opinion upon American affairs in this house which has not been entirely shared and con curred in by Lord Derby, nor do I think that throughout those four y it is possible to adduce any expression th a t haseverf a i leeffrom the lips of that eminent man which could in any way justify the allusions and references of the hon. gentleman. Sir, I am not here to-night to impugn, and I have never impugned, the conduct of the Govern ment of the United States throughout this struggle. I am prepared to say now, with incre ased ex p erience of their be haviour, that it appears to m e—as I indeed stated two years ago—that under circumstances of almost unprece dented difficulty, that Government has conducted itself a wf m th l dairsecrientiaonny. immediate eNor, danger,sir gl aja a l t l o n f un o r rinio a n nd th g L e a a v t e in case the war between the Northern and Southern States terminates, of being placed in collision with the Govern ment of the United States, from our connection with Canada. I do not pretend now to express any opinion upon what may be the termination of the present contest. That appears to me to be perfectly unnecessary to the discussion of the subject which is under our consideration to-night. But even assuming the result to be such as the hon. gentle man the member for Bradford supposes, I do not myself conclude that the citizens of the United States—of the North --if entirely andcompletely victorious, will feel inclined im mediatelyfe t o en t er i nto another struggle with a power not inferio r in North det America.errnintttion ( a H nd ear r , e h so e u ar r . c ) es si t r o , I t h h a e v S e outheni States rior of formed that opinion because it appears to me that the people of the United States are eminently a sagacious people. I don't think that they are insensible to the glory of great dominion Mr. PEACOCKE asked the Under Seretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he would lay upon the table of the house all the papers relating to the extradition from the Canadian territory of Captain Beale, an officer in the ser vice of the Confederate States ? Mr. LAYARD said he was not aware that Captain Beale had been surrendered by the Canadian Government. There were no papers in the possession of the Govern ment with respect to the matter. " OWL'S LIGHT." Mr. ROEBUCK drew the attention of the house to an alleged letter which appeared in the Times, headed " Owl's Light," from General Hutt, C. 8., in which it was stated that there was no truth in the report that ho was to be appointed chief secretary of Chelsea hospital, as such an appointment would be contrary to the Queen's warrant ; and, being an Indian officer, hewasineligible for the post ;:and desiring a contra tradiction of that which involved a reflection on his brother's integrity ; and also to the actual appointment of General Hutt to the office. Mr. HUTT said that the letter in question was a fraud, and the signature a forgery, and had emanated f rom som e persons whom he would call scoundrel; who pursued dis honest purposes by disloyal means. He had the original letter to the Times in his possession, and he expected ;to be able to trace its author. General Hutt was not incapable by the Queen's warrant, or by the fact of his being an officer of the Indian army, from holding the place in question, as he possessed all the necessary experience, and was an officer distinguished for his services, and had been named in the Gazette by Sir 0. Napier and by the Duke of Wellington, recommending him for the honour of the order of the Bath for his services at Meanee and Hyderabad. THE DEFENCES OF CANADA. On the motion for going into committee of supply on the army estimates, Mr. S. FITZGERALD rose to call the attention of the house to the report of Colonel Jervois with reference to the defence of Canada, and also for the purpose of asking for certain information on the subject. The hon. gentleman, in his opening observations, said the matter was one of the greatest importance, and while ex pressing an opinion that there was no distinct intention on the part of the United States to enter upon hostilities with this Country, yet h e con t en d e d th a t c i rcums t anc es m ight readily ase,in Canada especially, which might bring about dif ferencesn of a - very alarming description. After alluding to the present position of affairs in the United States and Canada, the hon. gentleman proceeded to refer to the steps that were now proposed to be taken. What, he asked, did t h e Governmenttold t intend to do ? and he supposed he sh ou ld b e out the recommend at i ons that htatvhee b te n n m tio a n de w b a y s to carry Jervois after his inspection. se remind e d th e house that there had been a commission sent out to Canada in 1862, with Colonel Gordon its head ; and the conclusion the commissioners at arrived s imilar to that of Colonel Jervois, yet the outlay was very down at such an enormous figure t was set that comm i ss ion was sent out in 1863 , and a another : a other in 1864. Yet, after all the inquiry, w h a t now proposed to be done by the Heine Govern s Why, they only intended to undertake the fortification p of Quebec, and that they intended to set about by th e ex penditure of £50,000. He should have thought that if the Government were convinced of the necessity of erecting these fortifications they would set about them in a more energetic manner than merely spending £50,000 for two or three years. He should have thought that the proper course to pursue would be to throw all their energies into the matter, and instead of doing the thing by driblets to effect all that was required in the speediest manner possible. and extended empire. I give them full 'credit for being in fluenced by the passions which actuate mankind generally, and nations that enjoy a state of great freedom particularly; but being a sagacious people, I do not think that they would seize the moment of exhaustion as the one most favourable to the prosecution of an enterprise requiring great resources and immense exertions. (Hear, hear.) Sir, there are other reasons, too, which induce me to adopt that opinion. I have not been influenced in forming a judgment on such grave matters by that sort of rowdy rhetoric which is expressed in public meetings and public journals, and from which, I fear, in this country is formed too rapidly our opinion of the character and possible conduct of the American people, _ _ _ I look upon this expression of opinion as something like those strong and fantastic drinks which we hear of, and which are such favourites on the other side of the Atlantic• I would as soon suppose that this kind of rowdy rhetoric to which I refer is a symbol of the real character of the Ame- rican people as that those potations are symbols of the ali ment and nutrition of their bodies. Sir, there is also another reason which very much influences my opinion that these violent courses which are apprehended might occur, and the hon. member (Mr. Forster) has already alluded to the cause upon which it is founded. The democracy of America must not be confounded with the democracies of old Europe. It is not the scum of turbulent cities ; nor is it even a mere section of the excited middle classes, who speculate in shares, and consider that progress. (Laughter.) It is a territorial democracy, if I may use that epithet without offending honourable gentlemen opposite. (Renewed laughter.) Aristotle, who has taught us most of the wise things we know, never said a wiser thing than that the cultivators of the soil are the class least inclined to sedition and to violent courses. Now, being a territorial democracy, their character has been formed and influenced by the sort of property with which they are connected and the nature of the pursuits they follow. There is a sense of the responsibility arising from the reality of their posi tion that very much influences their political conduct. At the present moment I believe they are much more inclined to welcome the return of labourers to their fields, and, being a very domestic people, again to see assembled round their hearths to which they have long been accustomed the household in whose lot they are so much interested, than to indulge in schemes, and plans,: and dreams of invading the dependency of her Majesty. (Hear, hear.) _ But, sir, although these are my opinions generally upon this imme diate point, still I cannot conceal from myself the fact, that / very great changes have taken place in America ; and I am inclined to believe that in this house, they are not rated at their sufficient importance. What has happe.ned in America —whatever may be the consequence of the present struggle —does not appear to me to be less than a revolution. I would ask hon. gentlemen to recal to their recollection what truly English'view of the subject—not to enforce our con nection upon any dependency ; but if, at a moment like the present—a moment, as I maintain, of revolution in North America—we find the English colonies asserting the prin- ciple of their nationality, and foreseeing, perhaps, a glo rious future, still depending, until the moment of their en tire emancipation arrives, upon the faithful and affectionate assistance of the mother country, it would be the most short-sighted as it would be the most spiritless, conduct in the eyes of the world to shrink from the duty which Providence had assigned to us to fulfil. (Cheers.) Well, sir, under these circumstances, what is the course we ought to adopt ? 1 cannot doubt that thQ coursq we ought to pursue is to plate our North American provinces in a state of defence. (Hear.) When we are told that it is impossible to defend a frontier of 1,500 miles, I ask who has ever re- quested you to defend such a frontier ? What we recom mend and require—and I am not speaking for this side of the house particularly, but for those who take the view that lam feebly expressing—is that her Majesty's troops in Canada should not be placed, for example, in a position in which the utmost bravery and skill would be of no avail but that they should defend the country according to the military conditions upon which all great countries are de fended. You do not defend hundreds of miles of frontier. Austria has an immense frontier, but Austria does not de fend it all. She takes care that when sho is invaded there shall be points round which her troops can rally for her defence ; that is all that we wish to see. We wish to see Canada placed in such a condition that if she is de fended by her own countrymen, assisted by her Majesty's troops, that they should at least have fair play which troops have a right to count upon, and the ad vantage of those fortifications which, defended with sufficient skill, double the strength of armies, and lead to the success of campaigns. (Hear, hear.) That is what is required, and what I trust her Majesty's Government have resolved to give. I confess myself that these four years needed not to be lost. Ido not think that, rom the first affairs in America have been considered of that importance to which they have now attained, and which, indeed, I myself felt that they must attain. My complaint against the Government is that they did not consider from the very first the affairs of America of the great importance which they have now attained, or which it was felt they must at tain. I formed that opinion—l do not wish to avail myself of any taunts—but I formed that opinion from expressions which fell from the Government during the last four years. Those opinions of the Government, from the nature of the struggle in America, and the probable consequences, and the general result which might be brought about, have been most inconsistent. One day we have been told by an eminent member of the Government that the South might be considered to have completed her independence ; and was the state of North America when we met in this house very shortly after that another great authority—lost now to this house, and whose loss no one more regrets than I do, Sir George CornewallLewis—said he did not recognise that any single element of independence had been accom plished by the South. These two opinions perplexed the country ; one day they were ready to believe from the Go vernment that there was on their part the utmost sympathy with those who were struggling in the Southern States, while on the other hand the Minister of the Government only four years ago. Why, North America was then divided among what I may call three great powers. There were the United States of America, the colonies, settlements, and dependencies of our own sovereign, and there was a country which certainly did not possess great political power, but which, in extent of resources, fertility of soil and mineral treasures, is perhaps not equalled in the world—Mexico Now, North America was divided under these three heads, and in reference to every one of them you will find that _ _ . who had to pass a judgment upon these matters, and whose position: give peculiar weight to his opinions, expressed conclusions of a totally different character. I do not blame the Government, in a position of extreme difficulty, for forming opinions in a period of revolution ; but what I do regret is these discordant opinions on their part, and that all this time the colonies of this country have not been prepared for defence as they should have been. After the loss of four years we are now about to commence an effort upon a small scale and with very limited results. But these are after all little matters, provided that they are formed upon a sound principle. If the Parliament of England has determined to maintain the colonies of her Majesty, founded upon the un equivocal expression on their part that to that connection they cling with feelings and sentiments of a character which shows that the national sentiment is wholly unimpaired—if they proye that those reports and rumours which have been circulated of late years in regard to the feelings of the colonists are unfounded, that they are proud of their con nection with the mother country, and that they are resolved to maintain it until they rival us in our great career and have become our allies and our friends—then I shall not regret anything which has been done. It appears to me that there are two consequences which have resulted from public opinion being of late agitated upon these topics — the one, that we are conscious now of what our duty is to the colonies, and that we are prepared to fulfil that duty in a manner which will produce confidence and strengthen and maintain the British empire. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LOWE said he should confine himself to the simple question, what this country ought to do and was bound to do. Suppose we were actually at war with the United States, Col. Jervois stated that our troops would be obliged to flee to their ships, and therefore we should make fortifica tions. But if we had fortifications the troops would be driven into them. There was no conceivable disparity of numbers which the Americans might not bring to overwhelm them. No fortifications could be held against this force aided by modern artillery, so that if our troops were driven into the fortifications it would be impossible for them to escape. The question was, what should be done if Canada was the battle-ground in case of war. The most effectual course in such an event would be to concentrate a force upon some other point. His conclusion, therefore, was that it would be unwise to retain any force worth speaking of in Canada. Then, if we should not keep troops there in time of war, why in time of peace ? We had better let Canada know the truth, and not buoy her up with false expectations, while we provoked America by a standing menace. The wisest course would be at once to withdraw our troops. After observations by Sir J. FEILGUSSON and Mr. J. WHITE, Mr. C. FORTESCUE said the British North American Colonies being desirous to remain attached to England, and being able and willing to exert themselves in their own defence, her Majesty's Government deemed it their duty to make propositions to the house to enable them to perform their part in assisting in the defence. He combated the arguments and conclusions of Mr. Lowe. Sir F. SMITH thought the house ought to have a full statement of what the whole cost of the fortifications and their armaments would be, and of the number of British troops that would be abstracted from the general force and retained in Canada. Mr. WATKIN observed that the way to prevent a war with America was not to talk of abandoning Canada, but to declare that it was a part of the British empire, and that we were prepared to defend it. Sir M. FARQUHAR dwelt upon the importance of the North American Colonies to England, and the large amount of capital there in which British subjects were more or less interested. Lord ELCHO said, having listened to the debate, the impression upon his mind was that the speech which con tained most practical sense and hit the right nail on the head was that of Mr. Lowe, that the course he suggested was a practical and sensible one. Mr. AYRTON considered the course taken by the Go vernment most extraordinary and unsatisfactory. He complained of the entire want of information upon a variety of essential points, which ought to be brought clearly before the house, and without which it would be premature to form any judgment. The best way to protect Canada he remarked, was to preserve proper relations with the United States, instead of which causes of irritation had arisen. there have been immense changes. In the United States of North America civil war has raged and is still raging, and even if it terminate (I myself give no opinion as to its termination) as the hon. member for Bradford sup poses, I Cannot myself believe that you will see the same society and form of government established—certainly not in spirit, though it may be in mere form—as existed before the civil war was commenced. Because we must remember this, that even if the Federal Govern ment is triumphant it will now have to deal with a perplexing and discontented population. I will not dwell much upon the population that will then represent the Southern communities, but look to the slave population no longer slaves. You would have several millions of another race emancipated; legally in the full enjoyment of the rights of freemen, so far as the letter of the law is con cerned, placed upon an equality with the Saxon race, with whom they can possibly have no sympathy. But Whatever may be the letter of the law, we know from experience that in practice there will be a difference, and a marked difference, between those recently emancipated and—l will not call it the superior race, because I may offend some gentlemen opposite—(laughter)--I will not say the inferior race—but I say the race which certainly is not identical. Well, nothing tends more to the discontent of a people than that they should be in possession of privileges and rights which really and practically they find are not recognised, and which they do not enjoy. These are elements of poli tical discontent, and, therefore, if the United States be triumphant they will have to deal with what they had not before, great masses of discontented population. Then you must have a strong Government, and what does a strong Government mean? It means a central Government, and the United States of late in all their troubles and emergen cies have had recourse to the centralising principle. The central Government then will have an army at command for the purpose of maintaining that order and unity which it is their duty to uphold. Well, sir, I therefore think that there are elements which will produce a very great differ ence in the condition of . the United States, even if they come triumphantly out of this struggle. Now, what is the condition of the colonies, settlements, and dependen cies of her Majesty ? BAore this struggle, four years ago there was very little common sympathy amongst them' The tie to this country was one almost of formality; and yet what has been the consequence of this great change in North America ? Why, you have already developed a powerful federation with the element of nationality strongly evinced in it. They have counted their popu lation ; they feel that they are numbered by millions ; they are conscious that they have amongst the posses sions of the Queen in North America a district of ter ritory which in fertility and extent is equal to the unap propriated resources of the United States. These are gle monis of power and prognostics of new influences which will very much change the character of that country. Nor is there any reason to suppose that they are less influenced by the ambition natural to free communities than the United States themselves. Perhaps they may foresee that they may become the Russia, I will say, for example, of the new world. But what is the condition of Mexico ? Before this civil war commenced Mexico was a republic with a very weak government. She is no longer a republic, but an empire, and she has become an empire by the interposi tion of two of the most powerful and ancient States of Europe, France, and Germany. When we see all these immense changes, it is impossible to deny that in North America a great revolution is occurring, and whore these struggles are over, and when peace may again appear, when tranquillity in all these departments may be again established, you will find communities governed by very different influences and aiming at very different objects to what they have hitherto recognised and avowed. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I have often heard in this house statesmen, even distinguished statesmen, mumbling over what they call the balance of power in Europe. It appeared to me always to be a great mistake when we look to the distribu tion of power to confine our consideration merely to Euro pean elements, that the time must come, and speedily come, when we shall find that other influences from other quarters of the globe will very much interfere with all those calculations which aro now become obsolete. I think that this war in America has rapidly precipitated the re cognition of a new definition of the balance of power, not as a system of small and great States leaving all the strongest positions in the hands of the weakest, but, on the contrary, that the proper meaning of the balance of power is security for communities in general against the predominance of any particular power. I think when you have to consider the balance of power in future you will have to take into consideration States and influences which cannot be counted among European Powers. It is impossible, not withstanding what hon. gentlemen may say with regard to the character of the United States, to conceal from our selves that there is a feeling among those influential land owners to whom the hon. member for Bradford has referred with reference to Europe which is of a peculiar nature. I will not say that the United States, for example, look to old Europe with feelings of jealousy or vindictiveness, because epithets or words of that kind ought not unnecessarily to be used with respect to the relations between nations ; but it is certainly undeniable that the United States look to old Europe with a want of sympathy. They have no sympathy with countries which have been created and which are sustained by tradition. The only part of old Europe that they do sympathise with is that part which is new, and that you will always observe in their course of conduct. If then I am at all justified in these views, it is quite clear that we must make up our minds to know what our relations really shall be with her Majesty's dependencies on the other side of the Atlantic. We are upon the eve—l don't mean that it will be to-morrow, or next year, but taking those large views that become the House of Commons we may be soon upon the eve of events in which our relations with our American dependencies must be clearly apprehended and acted upon by this country. (Hear.) Is this country prepared to re nounce our American colonies and dependencies or to main tain them ? Sir, I am perfectly willing to admit that if they express a wish to sever that connection—if those views which have often been mentioned in this house, that they prefer to be absorbed by the United States, as we heard years ago, be well founded—then we might terminate that connection with dignity and without disaster. But if, on the other hand, those views which are now more generally accepted are just, if th ere b e on the part of the Canadas and of the other North American colonies a sincere and deep desire to form a considerable state, to develope their greatest an e a n n t d alli resources with the patronage and aid of Bngland until that mature hour has arrived when we may loose, perhaps, l ou s r ay de i p t e w nd ow en a cy b t e o o g n a e in of p t e h rm e politicale s maintaining ad blunders friends, t h e the responsibility of upholding inte rests at the present moment. I am sure, sir, that if from any consideration of expense we were to quit the position we now occupy in North America, it would ultimately be, as regards the sources of our wealth, as fatal and disastrous a step as a nation could take—that our abject prosperity would not long be a consolation for us, and that we should then indeed have to prepare perhaps for the invasion of our country and the subjugation of our people. I infer, from what has been stat ed, that hon. gentlemen below the gangway do not themselves uphol d those views which I regret have been expressed in other places and in other quarters. But they take what I hope is the sound and Lord R. CECIL, after remarking that this debate would operate against the interests of this country, observed that the ambiguity about th 3 defence of Canada was more dangerous to the honour of England than any other course that could be adopted. Mr. BRIGHT said he hoped the debate would bo use ful ; and althongh he was obliged to admit the importance of the question before them, he thought it was likewise one of some delicacy. Its importance was clear, because it referred to the possibility of war between this country and the United States ; and its delicacy arose from this, that it was very difficult to discuss such a subject without saying things which tended rather in the direction of war than of peace. There was an extensive dependency of this coun try lying along the frontiers of the United States, and if there was a war party in the United States—a party hostile to this country—that circumstance afforded to it a strong temptation to enter into a war with England, because through Canada they could inflict a groat humiliation upon England. At the same time, it was perfectly well known to all intelligent men —especially to the statesmen of the United States—it was well known to them as to:English ' men, that it was not in the power of the United Kingdom to defend Canada successfully against the power of the - United States of America. (Hear, hear.) Now, the noble lord and his Government were responsible for compelling this discussion. If a vote was to be asked for it was clearly a duty to bring the subject under discussion. But he thought such a vote was particularly inopportune at that moment, and for many reasons ; especially, however, because they had heard from the Governor-General of Canada that the Northern provinces of America were about to call into existence a new nationality. Now, he should object to the taxes of this country being needlessly expended upon any nationality except our own. (Hear, hear.) What he should ask the house first of all was, would Canada attack the United States ? Clearly not. Well, then, would the United States attack Canada ? Clearly not. There was probably not a man in the United States whose advice or opinion would have the smallest weight in America, who would re commend or desire that an attack should be made upon Ca nada with a view to its forcible annexation to the Union. But the people of Canada have been no wiser politicians than some members of that house, or than many of the richer classes in this country, and when the refugees of the South—he did not mean those respectable and honourable men who left their country in these troubles, and for whom he felt the greatest commiseration, but he referred to those ruffians of the South who in large numbers had retreated to Canada, and had employed themselves there in a course of policy likely to embroil England with the United States —he maintained the people of Canada had treated these persons with much too great conciliation when they gave utterance to opinions of open hostility to a country quite close to them. He would not go into the details of the recent raid across the American frontier, and of other transactions with a similar tendency. Suffice it to say that all those things took place, and yet the Canadian Go vernment made scarcely a sign. A year ago application was made to the noble lord at the head of the Foreign-office to stimulate the Canadian Government into taking certain steps ; but, with that sort of negligence which had been so much seen, nothing was done until the American Govern ment and people became aroused, and showed that they would not put up with these things any longer. He had heard that Lord Monck had conducted his Government in a manner very serviceable to Canada, and with the greatest possible propriety, as the representative of her Majesty. Lord Monck had likewise been very favourable to the United States, as had also been his Cabinet and the most important newspaper in Canada ; still for a long time nothing was done. Now, however, when this trouble arose, everything was done—possibly the raiders would be sur rendered, and the Canadian Chancellor of the Exchequer had proposed a vote to restore to the persons at St. Albans the money that was taken 'from them. What was the state of things now ? Why, a state of the greatest possible calm. People had returned to their right mind, and there was not a man in Canada who had any kind of idea that the United States Government had the smallest notion of attacking them. It was with the greatest do light, too, that ho noticed the changed tone in that house with respect to the American question. He did not believe that there was any one out of Bedlam, or at least any one who ought to be out of it—(laughter)—who was in favour of England going to war with the United States. He would say that we were a wiser and a better people in these respects. We ought to regard war with the United States, if needlessly entered into, as even a greater crime than war with almost any other country in the world. (Hear.) Our Government had preserved neutrality during this great struggle, although they had committed many blunders. Bad men of various classes, agents of the Rich mond conspiracy, and persons who were said to be influen tial from France, were reported to have brought their in• fluence to bear upon the noble lord at the head of the Go vernment and his colleagues with a view to induce them to take some part in this quarrel. But our neutrality had not been broken. It might therefore fairly be inferred that this country was not in favour of war, and that if any dif ficulty arose from which Canada would suffer it would not proceed from this country. Would it, then, come from the United States ? The noble lord the member for Stamford (Lord R. Cecil) had a lurking idea that it would come from that quarter. (Hear, and laughter.) If they could have at the bar of the House Earl Russell as representing her Ma jesty's Government, and Mr. Adams as representing the Government of President Lincoln, and if their opinions were asked, they would say that the relations between the two countries were perfectly amicable, and that they had been growing more and more amicable for many months past. He (Mr. Bright) would take the liberty of expressing an opinion that there had never been an Administration in the. United States since the time of the revolutionary war up to this hour more entirely favourable to peace with all foreign countries, and more especially with England, than the Government of which President Lincoln was the head. The most exact investigator would not be able to point to a single word which Mr. Lincoln had said, to a line he had written, or an act ho had done, which betrayed anger against this country, or any of that passion or feeling which were thought by some persons in this country to occupy the breast of the President and his Cabinet. If Ca nada and England and the United States were not for war, whence was the war to come? He should like to ask whence came the anxiety on this subject which undoubtedly to some extent prevailed ? It might, indeed, even be as sumed that the Government were not altogether free from it, as they had shown in a ludicrous manner by proposing a vote of £50,000 for the defence of Quebec. (Laughter.) Then it was said that the newspapers had got into a slight panic. Well, they could do that any night between 6 o'clock and 12. (Laughter.) It was also said that the City was alarmed. Ho never knew the City to be right. (Laughter.) Men who were deep in great mone tary transactions, and perhaps steeped to the lips in peril ous speculations, were not able to take a broad and dispas sionate view of political questions of this nature. (Hear, hear.) Then as to the newspapers, he agreed with his hon. friend the member for Bradford (Mr. W. E. Forster) that the course of one newspaper, in particular, was indicated by a wish to cover its own confusion, and he should imagine that, after an uninterrupted publication of lies with regard to America for four years, it had done much to destroy its influence on foreign questions for ever. (Cheers.) But there was a higher authority than the newspapers—that of the peers. He was glad the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Dis raeli) had endeavoured to excuse his chief, and he was also glad to acknowledge that not one syllable had fallen from the right hon. gentleman's lips which was likely to create difficulty between this country and the United States ; and the chief, as well as many of his followers, might learn something from his example. (Cheers.) Now, how was it that any man in this country had more anxiety at this mo ment with regard to the rn preservation of peace with the United States than he had four years ago ? Was there not a consciousness that we had not behaved generously to our neighbour ? (Cries of no, no.) Did we not feel the prick ing of conscience ? (No, no, and hear, hear.) And did not that conscience tend to make us cowards at this particular juncture ? (No, no.) He would not review past transactions with anger, but with a feeling of sorrow ; for he maintained that no generous and high-minded Englishman could look back upon the transactions of the last four years without a feeling of sorrow at the course - which had been pursued on some particular occasions; and as he was wishful to speak with a view to a better state of feeling both in this country and the United States, he would take the liberty to refer to two or three of those transactions which he thought, though not in the main greatly wrong. yet in some circumstances were so far unfortunate as to create the irritation which people at this moment regretted. The time and the manner in which her Majesty's Government acknowledged the belligerent rights of the South, could not fail to produce considerable irritation in the North. Then, again, the conduct of the Government in the affair of the Trent was unduly hasty and precipitate, and the menace against the United States was altogether needless and uncalled-for. With regard to the Alabama he did not complain of the hon. member for Birkenhead (Mr. Laird) for having contracted a friendship with Capt. Semmes, of whom it might be said, " He was the mildest mannered man that ever scuttled ship"— (laughter)—but he complained that a county magistrate, a deputy lieutenant—whatever that might be—(laughter)— a representative of a constituency, and, as such, having a seat in that honourable assembly, should have been con cerned in building and equipping this ship, and breaking the law of his country. (Cries of "No, no.") As to the press—(laughter)—as to the press, he thought it unneces sary to say much about that, because he believed those un fortunate writers were endeavouring fo back out, and he could only hope their power for evil would in future be lessened by the stupendous exhibitions of ignorance and folly which they had made to the world. He would say that the chance of war was not only uncertain but impro bable. As to the claims of the United States upon this country, and the claims of this country upon the United States, they would probably not exceed half a million ster ling, and he did not see why the two Governments could not arrange such a matter, for it was not more difficult than the question with Brazil, which was being settled by negotiation, (Hear, hear.) He recollected at the begin ning of the war that a member, whose name he would not I mention, alluded to it as the bin sting of the bubble repub lic, but that member was rebuked by Lord Russell, who then sat in that house for the City, in a manner worthy of his name and great reputation. He (Mr. Bright) believed that a great many bubbles would burst before it. Why should this country fear a great republic on the American continent? Some people believed - a great republic was aggressive ; but the character of a nation did not de pend upon its size, but upon the civilisation and morals of its people. This country feared the supremacy of the sea would pass away, and that "Rule, Britannia," would become an old song ; but if it meant anything inthe way of arrogant menace, the sooner it became obsolete the better. Ho did not think that any nation should vaunt itself upon the supremacy of the sea, and he believed the time was coming when a more just policy would guide the Christian nations of the world. But, said the hon. member, nature will not be baffled because we are jealous cf the United States. The people of the United States are not less than 35 millions of souls. When the next Parliament shall be as old as the present, the population of the United States will be 40 millions, and you may calculate that the increase will be more than one million per year. You can not, by any snarling, reduce their 40 millions to your 30 millions, nor increase your 30 millions to their 40 millions, and the sooner you give up such a notion the better will it be for the interests of the country. On the other hand, I believe the American people will be willing to bury in oblivion transactions that have given them much pain, and probably they will make allowance that people in this country, even though high in rank and distinguished for culture, have a very inadequate knowledge of the trans actions which have taken place since the beginning of the - war. It was on record, when the author of the " Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" was beginning to write his work, that David Hume wrote to him not to employ the French but the English language, because of the establishment of America and the greater stability of the English language. How much that pro phesy has been fulfilled we have seen in part ; but I be lieve that as centuries pass it will be the boast and pride of England that from her loins have sprung 100 millions or 200 millions of people, who dwell and prosper in that con tinent which the old Genoese gave to Europe. (Cheers.) If the sentiments I have uttered to-night are the senti ments of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, I trust it may also influence the policy of the United States ; and, notwithstanding some irritation at the present, I have faith in ourselves and in them, and I believe that these two nations will march on, the parents and guardians of freedom and justice, wherever their langurge shall be spoken and their power shall extend. (Cheers.) Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, however long this discussion has been, I for ono cannot regret that it has taken place for I think two opinions have been expressedby the majority of the members of this house which cannot fail to impress all who have heard them. The first is that which has been peculiarly dwelt upon by the hon. member who has just sat down, namely, the earnest desire that the most friendly relations should be maintained between Great Britain and the United States. (Hear, hear.) And the other opinion is that the connection between the provinces of North America, so long as they are desirous of it, with the mother country, shall be maintained. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member has made what in one respect man appear to be a paradox, but what I think, according to the principles of terms " When I stated these facts as connected with this convent in the debate in 1853 the facts were denied by some Roman Catholic members in the house, but the impression pro duced by the statement of them, taken together with the other:facts at that time alleged, was such that these denials could have but little weight with the house. for the majority seemed to think, with the late Mr. Drummond, that the power of denial on the part of the Roman Catholic members of the house was on these subjects so wonderful that the house decided to consider a measure for testing these denials by the establishment of an inspection of eonyents." The house would perceive that reference was there made exclusively to the debate of 1853, and in vindication of the statement he would quote one or two passages. The motion before the House on that occasion was one by Mr. Chambers ......11•1...14 .------ ...........••••....••••...Ir. . r- 1 r leave to intro duce a . human nature, may be conciliatory to the United States ; .0 of the ce %ass coi anected with this subject whoa for though the hon. member went through a long course of and one bill for the inspection of convents, of Mr.. Cra von Berkeley, then a member of events showing that the United States had been illtreated attracted most. atte.ation a, t the time, was that of Miss Tal by this country, yet I cannot agree with him In any one of bog, his points. (Hear, hear.) But it is a principle of human the h a ou re s l e a . tiv ; he was a ' ey hay' -applied for permission to see his nature that you cannot better please any man, or set of and Mr. Berke'. . refused. the - necessary permission unless poi stulant of a convent at Bristol, men, than by telling them that they have been exceedingly stepdaughter was . lace. in the presence of the supe riore a s Mused. (Laughter.) I will not follow the hon. gentleman the interview took r' . ) s to which took place on that m°' in his discussion of the Trent affair, and the other caws In the course of the del, followi s ece d e occurred. M r have been disposed of, nor will I discuss the posi- / tion of Mr. Chambers tht ep ng tion of Canada and the United States, because the hon. t Craven Berkeley said— , . n the veil was revented froonar member admits himself that the conduct of the Canadian "Not only was it the f l , Government has been acknowledged to have been that ofd landa lady ilef ie having ndsu o n rit e e s a s t. n. { i.. presence of the suc i e o r o i . or ana friendly neighbour. (Hear, hear.) Tho hon. gentleman s eeing lady abbess—[Sir G. Bowys. ' l. : that in the convents of Eng says there exists a jealousy between this country and the of 'w n hich he (Mr. C. per" United States. But I utterly deny it. (Hear, hear.) There contradiction coul.l alter a fact It had happened to anti learned gentleman might cry is not only no jealousy, but on the contrary every English- keley) bad personal cos7lizre, A u, led an interviewab weep man must feel proud at seeing arise upon the other side of f i 3 l e r l i f de i r n s h u icsh°n person, circumstances t as h e SVAA ' stati ng. n ddearegerelative in the Atlantic a people of the highest civilisation, and ob- refused permission to see his nearest. , ' •—NoNo'07:1", no. The I n ' o amount of ,eriorcess. That taming not only a very great degree of power, but of wealth a convent, unless in presence of the sin also. (Hear, hear.) I deny therefore that any feeling of not alone the case with ladies who had . 'he w hite veil jealousy exiets between this country andthe United States. also with postulants, or persons who took t fore taking the black." Undoubtedly there are gentlemen who entertain different The late Mr. Drummond said:— ji•om that views to the hon. member upon the form of government , taken the veil; lg .. in that country, and who feel that that government is . tleMe P nion ;* the power of denial in some hon. gen, 1 ,, c ould not the best that could be established. (Hear, hear.) " Hon gentlemen opposite might dissent 1 • was most i marvellous ; and the only way in whico- ,;(.., c or But that is quite a different thing to the feeling which account for it was by supposing that Dr. Wis e r nar i l i zi biia Ke he says exists. (Hear.) No doubt there has been expressed rect when he stated in a recent number of_ tYe„,,, r t h a n to: and felt both in the North and in the South a feeling of irri_ v e ie:a , that Catholic ad a h e oli i c ia llym o laymen l i i n n e e s w s t v o er r y ea n c tuql ) l , 6 7 s se w n e e c t tation against this country, but that has bean caused by the a r ahowed to know anything about the matter—O t natural course of two parties in a quarrel complaining that —not allowed." aotwit h the third party, who was expected to take part in it, did H e c it e d th e se two passages to show the house that, r no not espouse either side. This has given rise to some sort of standing the flat denials given by the hon. me mber fo- ,:siaa complaint and ill-feeling against this country. (Hear.) The dalk and other members of the Roman Catho lic Perstiectioa North wished us to declare on their side, the South wanted to the facts alleged in support of the bill f o r the Ins? bra us to declare on theirs, and as we maintained perfect neu- of Nunneries, and in reference to the escape of a 11 _ 11 1e of trality between the two it was not unnatural that on both the convent at Atherstone, the house felt that that L ' e ,, oja tha sides some slight degree of irritation should arise. But I proceeding was not right, and thought proper tosa na ct i son to . am equally persuaded with the hon. member who has just sat down that in the great bulk of the people of the United believe that if the house had consented to have tuv rore d States there are feelings deeper than that irritation— measure. These were historical facts, and he had. IT fitots he adduced tested by a committee it would have he' e e nP of (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Bright)—feelings of goodwill to- at Oda wards the country of their ancestors ; and I am satisfied that the denial of them was as little worth on Dr. Ullathorne as the denial given to the statemen. , that when that unfortunate contest shall cease, in whatever way the termination shall come on—l am persuaded that thing about the want of courage on his part in 3 her ever during the debate of 1853. The hon. mem bl3r sais t t t r icine g . when that contest is over those natural feelings of good will and relationship which ought to prevail between kin- ladies and ecclesiastics ; but did the hon. :mere , _ use s know him shrink from stating his opinion in that no icsert dred nations will take the place of any feeling of temporary (Hear, hear.) What he thought it his duty to 5 .A 9 irritation to which the circumstances of war may have led. he would defend whenever called upon to doSomij lam quite satisfied, also, that England will not give the D r . Ull a th orne had been alluded to, he begged to re a '„, ua , United States any just cause of complaint ; that war will th e h ous e that if he singled out his name he d id sou e'rtor not proceed from our side ; and if war does not proceed Dr. Ullathorne in his own letter claimed to be the S Pe_ h ot from our side, and if, as the hon. gentleman thinks will be _that is, the governor, of all the three convents lal_.;0,1 the case, it does not proceed from theirs, then I think we have a well founded justification for believing that in spite „. 1 1 ! er ston-7 on there, for forcing back these unhappy ladies it e ~ of any adverse appearances of the moment, in spite of the named. He held him responsible for any oppression.col'r to attempt to escape, first from - Li'. prognostications of many, the friendly relations between and next from the convent at Co2wieh• Yesterdalt Atiaer„. e convent at ii-'" be re this country and the United States will not be in any real ceived a letter from the Protestan't clergyman 'o'ers atioo had danger of being interrupted. But that is no reason why stone, supporting his allegations, by P. C.: °ll ' - ate vroS we should not use the means in our power to place our with the Catholic priest, who said that one a: llin ,,,,„ a lse ha t fellow citizens, if I may so call them, in Canada in a state of defence, in the event of their being attacked. troublesome (that was the nun who attempted . '''' .d, Ther e escape) that they were obliged to have her remove. to set (Hear, hear.) Sir, there is no better security for peace was the Protestant clergyman at Atherstone resdY ' neii than strength to resist attack if it should come. That is port on the authority of the Catholic priest the statop- way no provocation ; it is an abuse of terms to say that when t o w hi c h D r . Ull a th orne g av e a flat denial. These „,fore you employ men to prevent danger, if it should arise, you some of the witnesses he would have produced % at. are provoking that danger and irritating the party against whom precautions may be taken. If no animosity exists his first l e tt e r t a lked about nuns confined in ehahl,deoce the committee, had it been granted. Dr. U llathor : I t those precautions can have no effect except that of was perfectiy true that that statement was in the ev :boro ° inspiring confidence in the party in whose favour they are from which he read extracts ; but how came Dr. Vi a ", _ t ba made ; if there be a disposition to attack it is sure to be les sened in proportion as the chance of success may be dimi- to know this evidence, which was never quotedelfuactss house ? Dr. Ullathorne was perfectly aware of th, n i c en nished. (Hear, hear.) Nov, I cannot concur with m right hon. friend the member for Caine (Mr. Lowe) in my and he could only attribute the doctor's flat denio' ry b at o thinking, whatever difficulties there may be, and difficulties to the sworn evidence to this circumstance :--ve,iiitreh who knew the organisation of the Roman Catholic Lie Nag undoubtedly there may be in successfully resisting an attack if it should be made by America on Canada, that the in respect to convents was aware that Dr. Ulla,thor il re ; of under sworn obligation to maintain inviolate the sec sv iniag . defence of Canada is an attempt which we could not sue- those convents, and to resist all attempts of anc lin ore forer ceed in. accomplishing. I think, on the contrary, that nun to leave, except pe issu superiorian• .i "%ncis r- Canada may be defended. (Hear, hear.) I also feel that Dr. Ullathorne thought that by propagating o ral the honour of England and the good faith which is duo to i s hi f/ 0 standing of these facts among the public, anu big our loyal fellow-countrymen, and those northern provinces, denials of sworn evidence, he was perf orms require at all events that we should make the attempt to ttril duty to a power superior to the laws of this c..,edieato defend them. (Cheers.) And, therefore, Ido not concur w hi c h it was hi s (M r . N ew d ega te's) objectito I ;agi' s.- in the argument of my right hon. friend that Canada can- ntt only as a member of that house, but as a 005 1/. not be defended, and least of all can I concur in the con clusion, assuming that defence to be impossible, then we trate acting for the county which he represented. s incur; elusion, Ullathorne might think it a duty to keep n ull ut tha t forthwith draw our troops from Canada. I neither cerated against their wills, yet, for his part, ho th°l a tion admit this urgent nor assent to his conclusion. If there can infoo jot, as a magistrate it was his business to seek be any doubt on the subject, lam anxious there should be within the sphere of his jurisdiction in all cases of 111 d Do no mistake. I am bound to say that it is not the intention of0;15 risonment or the practice of undue severity',your re' her Majesty's Government to follow the advice of my right should be wanting in his duty if he did not ell"' ,I ,„ r tri" hon. friend, and withdraw our troopsfrom Canada. (Cheers.) bring the authors of such offences before the Pr . „ n r ... vna- On the contrary, I feel that the honour of England and the bunals of the country. Therefore, as respected J-teetjea duty of the Government point to our doing everything thorne and himself, there was a conflict in their res Lani that it may be possible to do ; and lam persuaded that it sense of duty. He regretted that any ece lesiast w tate oa would be the will of the British nation that we should do minister 8f religion should have thought fit to Yen our best to defend our fellow-countrymen in Canada if flat denials of sworn evidence. (Hear, hear.) nate , foe attacked. Sir, as I said before, lam persuaded that the The O'DONOGHUE thought that the hon. rae rdi a t° tone of moderation which has prevailed in this debate will King's County was entitled to much credit for aff ° ,, rtit aitY' be useful both in Canada and in the United States. No the hon. member for North Warwickshire an °PP,' to pre: doubt there are those who have endeavoured to persuade to express his regret for what had taken place, an bet had the people and the Government of the United States that mise to be more careful in future. If the hon. In en , l ,, a t o°l there exists in this country a spirit of hostility towards not thought fit to avail himself of the opportunity, L' tics of them, and a looking out for grounds of quarrel. There can his own fault. Having had considerable opport l2ll o be no real and just grounds between us and them. (Hear, watching the hon. member, he had watched his r l e b o,o le t° hear.) We certainly shall not seek.such grounds—we shall with peculiar interest, and yet he had never 1) 00-- lion' not create them—and if the hon. member who has just sat decide, notwithstanding the extreme gravity of t ' to rieS down is a true and faithful exponent, as I have no doubt he member's demeanour, whether he really believed the 'lowa is, of the sentiments of the people of the United States, he told about the Jesuits or about the c onvents' ho°' then, I say, there can be no well-grounded apprehension making his ridiculous attacks on that systeol• I f „ t i ., hO h' l , (l that the peace which happily prevails between us and them member did, then his case was really a larming, P'.. o of I t ' ' ., should bo interrupted ; and I can only confirm the state- often thought that the hon. member would, af ter s i n of i ' ment of my right hon. friend, that the relations between graves t s p eec h es , rus h i n t o some lonely place, an u n e iet abe r the two Governments at the present time are perfectly hearty laugh. What was the position of the La be ' ea tel . g friendly and satisfactory. (Cheers.) We have no coin- a t th e en d o f so many years during which he h ad t hat 111 plaint to make of the conduct of the Government of the i ng t h e h ouse t h at i nqu i ry was his object, a nd 10, 1 ) 1 United States. They have acted in a fair and great attempt was to see w i t h hi s own eyes thnseloc ole, honourable manner towards us in all matters which an d b ars b e hi n d w hi c h h o h a d tried topersuade c l: e v ,pl o3 have arisen between us. No doubt we have claims upo n not by assertion, at least by insinuat i on , that Sow a poa d a them which we do not b r i ng f orwar d a t presen t, but which ladies were confined ? The hon. member asked f ° d. re fass ° we have announced as admissible that they at some future o f inquiry which he knew he could not obtain, an h i c k li , o time be discussed. But I trust that the two Governments that mode of inquiry which he could obtain, a 111 4 . h . well'' will feel that it is for the interest—aye, and for the honour oug h t to h ave accepte d if h e were s i n cere, and ' c - b e e lin ci ,, - 0 of the inmates of convents was really the of both, to preserve friendship and peace between them,obje ct Ta ber m io and I trust that matters of this sort are capable of friendly view. The House refused to grant the h on T t e i t ere If ' adjustment. All I can say is, that as long as the Govern . committee for sufficient reasons. One was that at r ho l; ment shall continue to be chargeable with the conduct of no ground for a committee; and the other was th oi ad 00 . a, affairs they will do everything which the honour and in- pointment of a committee and its proceeding s :,,,,e th ° l o f terest of the country require them to do, to maintain in- tend to perpetuate religious discords, which it Jaisb°Pl,sr violate the relations of peace andfriendship. (Loud cheers.) terest and wish of the house to terminate. T" ar tesi A The subject then dropped. ..„ co ,fw Birmingham had not been treated with ordina's; ar ab% ra , CONVENTUAL ESTABLISHMENTS—PERSONAL the hon. member. Dr. Ullathorne gave the hon' 11l hire ' # ith EXPLANATION. permission to enter his convents and bring w teg ritP Do Mr. HENNESSY, who had given notice of his intention testant gentlemen of recognised honesty and "' . . o assi° oo .. to put a question to the hon. member for No r th Warwick- the hon. member had availed himself of this Pe' these on.. shire,:said that since the debate whichihad taken place upon would have found no locks, bolts, and bars 11 , 0 2 0 , v a t r o a his motion relating to the inspection of conven ts the hon. vents except such as were used to keep out thlcrerea tins gentleman had published a letter w r itten in answer to one bonds, and spies ; but ho would have disc u y 0 80 0 which he had received from Bishop Ull a thorno. The hon. the convents were the abodes of peace and c hant „. for r et' 4 too gentleman was entitled, if he th oug ht fit, t o hold, and even mode of inquiry would not suit the hon. m ew ' p e r 0- a ill to publish, the opinion that "the di r ect action of the Romish which all could comprehend. The hon. r aeul , e edo c 7 t so hierarchy through or upon th e R o man Catholic members good a tactician not to kno x that an inquirys°,: i i . to P i ' 01 0 of the House had been obvio us t o ever y member taking an the presence of honourable men would n ot " ro e h ad oat interest in such questions as were debated" on the occasion end to all false charges. Then the hon. gen tle wr s o f it ted referred to. That his letter went on to say : hardihood to take the Roman Catholic rae l ' a a - coil 0 - o when I.stated these facts as connected with this con- house to task for not assisting him to obtain 0 , 0 an ,is vent, the facts were denied by some Roman Catholic mem- which could only prove a source of inconvetne iiortisPLa bers in the House, but the impression produced by the inmates and which' r f co" to statement of them, taken together with the other facts at no unto to the of convents, ~c og o ot : that time alleged, could have had little weight with the addition, might gratify the morbid suslmel og his 0 boil' house, for the majority seemed to think, with the late Mr. persons whom the hon. gentleman was dc" that ti l f co° Drummond, that the power of denial on the part of some delude. Perhaps it was too much to OSP ect . to ste° °pf gentleman would desist from ~e in to cl i i i res Roman Catholic members of the house on these subjects was so wonderful tnat the house decided to consider a mea sure for testing these denials by the establishment of anect eci con, vents, Srr to hope that he would allow them inspection of convents." sue those pious lives which they had se , w cr oe heir fe he l' t ` vicl This sentence was somewhat involved, but there could not voted to prayer and to the good of t vr ,„ t had ..b '„ be the slightest doubt that it conveyed an imputation and But it was not, too much to expect, after 7 iry w li e t' 02 4 charge against Roman Catholic members to which no gen- after the hon. member had refused the ing vot ab_ __' I , s oir: tleman should submit. Heretofore, the hon. member for been offered him, and which every hon•• ero and 10 0 North Warwickshire had adopted the prudent policy of at- feel was amply sufficient tosatisfy every s in „ . .., e 1 0' 0 t i o n)° ,. taking women or treating ecclesiastics with very scant courtesy, and it did not need a very courageous heart to how to estimate the statements which tau sero co able man, that the house and the c ou . nt_if ioo. gen to t oll strike a blow at those whose sex or sacerdotal character might think fit in future to make with re' suing to f oCC Pr . rendered them incapable of self-defence. But deviating for vents. (Hear, hear.) ap- a Di to the first time from his old course, the hon. gentleman by Mr. NEWDEGATE rose again, and was l oth ". 1 .. penning that sentence had placed himself for the first time explain that he had declined the inquili c r Do wd 0 ordv ' Øries of face to face with those who had power andlikewise the de- Ullathorne because it would have h b e n termination to require a strict account for the language authority, when he was interrupted, 7 seat. fte r thus made use of. He wished the hon. gentleman to tell the order," which induced him to resume his a tiO I" house distinctly what he meant by that sentence, andwhe- The subject then dropped. . _ doc i e f, „ , e t ther in hid place in the house he was prepared to adopt it. The other orders of the day were thsPv; at Dan The charge implied in the sentence was only insinuated, some further business the house adjourns"' and on that account was all the more offensive. He wished to ask the hon. gentleman whether he wasprepared to prove that charge, and if he were not able to do so, then to call upon him to give to those whom by the insinuation he had insulted an ample and full apology. (Hear. hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE was glad the house had afforded the hon. member for King's County an opportunity of ex plaining the offence which he fancied had been committed. On last Friday evening he received a note from that hon member stating that ho intended to call attention to seri ous statements made in the letter written in reply to that from Dr. Ullathorne ; but, as it was impossible for him then to be present on that occasion, the matter stood over till the present occasion. Dr. Ullathorne thought fit to deny in the most explicit terms statements which he had made when bringing forward his motion, and, not choosing that allegations of falsehood should be circulated in the district which ho had the honour to represent, he wrote the letter from which an extract had been read by the hon. member for the King's County.. Ho extremely regretted that in the copy from which that passage was taken an error had crept in. The language, as it ought to read, was in the following _ _ A N London : Printed and Published by Virli'LlAfl W e ' l'wll of ° No. 112, Strand, Punter , at THE O 1 ()the-Cotl° Strand, in the Precinct of the SaYoY, I° Middlesex. — Tuesday , March it, 1801 n"--------------------------- , A et, Births. t ...SP"; 0 001% LA BERESFORD.—On the 11th inst., at BO UPP er O''''' .. the wife of Denis daughter. W. Pack Beresfo'rcl, °"1" res6ltl' -.ic - BAUER.—On the 9th ut . st. at 4 Rensus' gt° 7l-1- 111/1 ' wife of M. L. Bauer Esq.. of , a son. ~,,,6 ) rio HILL —On the 12th inst., at 7, Ilamilten-P07,,,-; ,oct, _ R th E O . wife of Sir John Hill, Bart., of a daugh" 40 4 " 1: i'4AY2.:E.—On the 11th inst., at 25, CheW Lady Frances Tremayne, of a son. • , 0 , Marriages. 0 1 0 ftt S t ' tie DAWKINS—SRACKLADY.—On the 11th ins.l a Tal pi Great Ilf e o l rj e l, s Sarni. Dawkins, of Staple,f.o,loo,6l, , Emily-, Hea' Farm, t Es d s a e u x g . hter of 'Mr. Jolla W - ' ue o .41 ,4. Stegyiego WHITmour.—SMITH.—On the 11th inst., at St. 0 tVoi Ili I Ftoallsdatltlon, Major George tierWhitm I.kiiiill. P a, youngest daugh a tho late ~ Esq., of Roxeth, Harrow. 4 .0) 0 w D ea ths. so . ' ComrsG.—On the 12th inst. , at Palnaer'S-gree/'' Cuthbert Coiling, Esq., aged 67. Eyre Efe e°' EAGLES.—On the 11th inst., at Bedford, ..- , cti t , ' Coroer, aged 61. rent , ' Ems.—On the 10th inst., at Old Charlton, %- 7 s. r ,i, .. ng e r ce General Sir Samuel Bur don Ellis 1.C..v , o nxte RELY.—At Rock - field, near Cappoquiut , c° 7 11 6 111 -00 11° Fierce Hely, Esq., J.P. and D.L., age' ' t o ct, ' HIT.T,mAN.—On the 11th inst., at 1, .Arglll 1. ival' Hillman, Es , '- WALLIs.—On (theaffd B ' l. 11' s(l. ' 11 th tip., Wm. Wa d 7,2. _____, borough-road, St. John s -wood, age , ' 4 ' ~11" ---------.140,' ill; TBE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 14, 1865.