The Sun. — London, England, 1835-03-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MdRCH 3. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at five o'clock. - - The Duke of BUCCLEUGH presented petitions from the parishes of Langholm, Applegarth, and Smalholm, praying for protection to the Established Church, and for increased ac commodation in it. NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. The Duke of WELLINGTON said he took the earliest op- portunity of calling their Lordships' attention to that paragraph m the Speech from the Throne, relating to the late melancholy fire which had consumed the houses of parliament. The mode proposed by government for considering the question of building the new Houses, was by Committees of both Houses. He therefore moved that a Committee be appointed to con sider the plans, &c., for building new Houses.—( Hear.) Of course they would communicate with the Committee appointed by the other House. The Noble Duke then read the names he proposed for the Committee. Lord BROUG HAM said he was sorry they had not got better accommodation even for a temporary purpose. They were then breathing an air which was scarcely respirable—it was a heated air, which was exceedingly unpleasant, and not at all wholesome. The Earl of ROSSLYN said, the House was heated by means of hot water ; and he did not know any better plan that could be adopted. After a conversation across the table, between many Noble Lords, the Committee was appointed. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. - The Earl of RODEN said, that in consequenco of what had been said in the other House last night in answer to a question respecting education in Ireland, he would ask the Noble Duke (Wellington) a question on the same subject on Friday. The Marquis of WESTMINSTER wished to ask the Noble Duke at the bead of Foreign Affairs whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to bring forward any measure with respect to the introduction of Poor Luws into Ireland? Whether any provision was intended to be made for the Catholic clergy, and if there was, out of what fund that provision was to come ? The DUKE : of WELLINGTON said with respect to the first question of the Noble Marquis, there was a Com mission upon Poor' Laws in Ireland, and subject to what the Commissioners under that might report it was not the intention of the present Government to bring forward any measures. With respect to the provision for the Catholic Clergy, it was not intended to make any such provision, and it was therefore unnecessary to say out of what fund that provision was to come. FURTHER ACCOMMODATION TO THE HOUSE OF LORDS. The Duke of RIC HMO ND presented a second report from the Library Committee, embodying a resolution to the effect, that a passage, connecting a passage by the robing room, was necessary, with other accommodations ; that Sir Robert Smirke had been consulted upon the subject, as to the means of accomplishing the same ; and that a humble address be pre sented to his Majesty, praying his Majesty would be graciously pleased to give the requisite directions for carrying the plan suggested into effect.—Agreed to. The House adjourned at half-past five till Friday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARcIt 3. The SPEAKER took the Chair at foul- o'clock. Alderman WOOD brought in a Bill for enlarging and improving Smithfield Market. The Bill was read a first time. Mr. EMERSON TENNE NT brought up the Report of the Committee on the Dublin and Belfast Road Bill. Mr. WILSON PATTEN brought up the R3port of the Committee on the Grand Junction Railway Bill. The Com- Mittee found that the standing orders had been complied with, and leave was given to bring in the Bill. Mr. HODGES presented petitions from Tunbridge Wells and Mereworth, praying, for a repeal of the Malt Tax. Mr. JERVIS moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the 'Chester Criminals' Execution Bill. SPIRIT LICENSES. Sir J. BECK ET presented a petition from the licensed vic tuallers of Leeds, complaining of the operation of the Bill intro duced last Session by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, for the regulation of the licenses of persons selling wine, spirits, &c., the Honourable Baronet complained that those Licensed Victuallers who rented large houses, and a ere at considerable expense in fitting them up, were subject to ten times the rent of those who occupied small premises. Mr. BA IN E S concurred in the prayer of the petition. Ile thought the case of the licensed victuallers was one of great hardship, and was deserving of the serious attention of the House. _ _ Sir GEO. STR ICKL AND supported the petition. He thought the liCenses should be regulated by the quantity of business done, rather than the rent paid for the house. He thought the system of licenses was one which more than any other required revision. After a few words from Sir E. CODRINGTON and Colonel EVANS, the petition was laid on the table. FOREIGN GRAIN. provisions would be rendered as effectual and extensive as the necessity of the circumstances might require. Mr. BARING made a few observations in reply which were wholly inaudible in the Gallery. AMERICAN BOUNDARY. Mr. ROBINSON wished to avail himself of the opportunity which then offered, to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether, since the termination of the last Session of Parliament, any thing had taken place between this country and the United States, in reference to the question of the North American boundary line, which had been so long pending. It was a question of the greatest importance, and trusted the Right Honourable Baronet opposite would be able to give a satisfactory reply. The Hon. Gentleman proposed an other question to the Right Hon. Baronet, but in so low a tone as to render it impossible to catch its import. Sir ROBERT PE EL said the question was no doubt one of the utmost importance, but from the brief manner in which it was proposed by the Hon. Member, it was exceedingly difficult to give it on answer equally concise.—( Hear. ) It was a most intricate and complicated question, relating to no less important a subject than the settlement of the boundary line between the British possessions in North America and the United States—relating to the boundary line in the State of Maine and New Brunswick. The dispute arose in conse quence of the vagueness of the treaty of 1783. By that treaty a certain boundary line was determined upon, to be decided by certain high lands on the confines of Maine and New Brunswick, and the partition was to be ex tended from those high lands to the nearest approach to them of the waters of the river St. Lawrence. These high lands, as he ( Sir Robert Peel) had stated, were to be the division between Maine and New Brunswick ; but from the vagueness of the terms in which this agreement was conveyed, it was physically impossible to discern where these high lands were. A convention between this country and the United States was, consequently, agreed upon, and each party resolved to refer the controversy to the King of the Netherlands. These qUestions, it was agreed, should ' be proposed for the decision of his Majesty. On two of them he gave a decided opinion, but on the third it was impossible to offer any opinion, as the high lands referred to in the treaty of 1783 could not be discovered. Under these circum stances, his Majesty suggested an amicable compromise to both parties. Great Britain professed to abide by that final adjustment ; but the United States decided not to accept of that arbitration. The United States suggested a new survey—we offered to abide by that survey, pre vided certain preliminary conditions were agreed upon, ne cessary for effecting that survey, and without which it would be useless and unsatisfactory to make it. One of these preliminaries was to decide whether, according to the treaty of 1783, the Bay of Fundy should be considered a part of the Atlantic Ocean. No answer has, as yet, been given to this proposal—the negotia tion is still pending, the President having refused to produce the papers that were required. This is the only thing to pre vent the continuance of those amicable relations which all lovers of peace, and of the commercial interests of both coun tries, must desire to see maintained.—( Hear, hear.) Sir JO II N BECK ETT put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, respecting the provisions made for Educa tion in those possessions. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was un derstood to say that some decisive measures were in progress. LAW OF LIBEL. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know whether it was the intention of the Government to bring in any act to amend the law of libel ? A Committee was appointed last Session to inquire into the effect of the operation of that law, but nothing more hadb , !en done. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER referred the question to his Right Hon. Friend the Attorney-General, whose attention had been directed to the subject. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was quite true that his attention had been directed to this subject, but be had been unable to come to any positive conelmion as to the course which should be pursued.—( Hear.) He was quite willing to admit, that some alterations of the law of libel were required, and he would heartily concur with and assist any gentleman who should propose a proper amendment of the de fects of the present law. Mr. O'CONNELL then gave notice, that he should bring in a Bill for that object on Wednesday next, and should move on Thursday next for the production of the evidence taken be fore the Committee appointed last session. POST-OFFICE. _ . Mr. WALLACE enquired what were the intentions of Government with respect to the Post-office Commission? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that his predecessors had appointed a commission for the pur pose of inquiring into the state of the Post Office, and that Commission had made one report of their labours, but he should feel it to be his duty to re-appoint the Commission for the some purpose, and to have the report of their labours laid before the House as early as possible. Mr. W A L LAC E said in consequence of his Hon. Friend, Mr. Ward, having a•motion on the subject of the divisions of the House to come on to-morrow night, he should defer his mo tion for allowing the Reporters of the public press to be present dui leg the divisions of the House. NATIONAL EDUCATION SCHEME. Mr. ROEBUCK moved the re-appointment of the Com mittee for inquiring into the state of the education of the peo ple of England and Wales, and for promoting the erection of school-houses, &c. • Mr. D. W. H ARVEY said that he did not rise with the view of opposing that motion, but the House would agree with him that there was a necessity for giving to that Committee all the assistance and facility that could be given to them in the progress of their labours. This inquiry was far too limited in its object, and it proceeded upon a supposition, from which ho differed, that the resources of this country applicable to the education of the people were not abundant, and that, therefore, there must be a distribution of some further grant.—( Hear, hear.) The property in this country bequeathed for and intended to be applied to the purposes of national education amounted to a sum which few persons had any adequate impression of; and it was a matter of regret, that the Committee of inquiry into that question had existed for 17 years, at an expense of more than 250,0001. ; and that, notwithstanding this, it had not above half terminated its labours, and even what it had done had not been well done. There was no subject to which the attention of the Legislature would be more properly directed ; but such was the amount of the property already bequeathed for the purposes of education, that no child in the kingdom ought to be, or would be uneducated, if those funds were now properly applied. He was the first to allow that no sums voted by the Legislature—no pub lic endowments—should be spared to attain so important an object. But the House ought first to insist that the property already left for that purpose, by benevolent in dividuals, was applied to the purposes for which it was bequeathed by them. His inquiries showed that no less a sum than a million sterling will be applicable to the purposes of national education, if the directions of the original donors were most implicitly complied with. ( Hear, hear, hear.) He was authorized in stating that not one-fourth part of that sum, strictly speaking, was expended for the purposes for which it was intended.—( Hear, hear.) When so much re gard was evinced for the rights of property and the security of vested interests among the higher classes, was it too much to de mand, on behalf of the neglected, impoverished classes, that the preperty devoted to their instruction, should be honestly and justly applied ?—( Hear, hear.) Was the subject of vested interests and the rights of property merely a matter of division when applied to the humbler classes? He would beg of his Hon. Friend whose labours in that field none appreciated more than he did to give to that Committee all the efficiency of which it was capable, and he would therefore suggest, as a matter of amendment, that the Committee should inquire, not only into the present state of eduCation in England and Wales, but also as to the amount and application of the various grants already made for that purpose. He (Mr. Harvey) would take the sense of the House upon. that amendment, unless the Government, should deem it prudent, which he was satisfied they would, to sanction the introduction of these words. The purport of them was, and he was sure no reasonable objection could be made to them, that the Committee should inquire into the name and amount of all funds strictly applicable to the education of the people. The SPEAKER having read the motion with the amendment, Mr. ROEBUCK trusted that the Hon. Member would not press his motion, as it was the unanimous opinion of the House that the motion should be put in its original form, and that the point to whiCh the Hon. Member alluded should be made the subject of a distinct inquiry. He had been in formed that the motion would not be carried if that amendment had been linked to it, and therefore he hoped it would be withdrawn. Mr. BROTHERTON said he would give as an instance of the beneficial effects of a salutary system_ of education, that in Manchester there was a grammar school, the funds of which amounted to 5,000/. per annum. There was- also a national school, where 1,000 children were taught at an expence of 6s. Bd. each. Now if the five thousand pounds had been properly laid out, instead of two hundred persons being thereby educated, there should be fifteen thousand. It had been lately proposed to extend the benefits of that school, and he (Mr. Brotherton) had no hesitation in saying that the benefits would be derived not by the poor, but by the rich. He cordially agreed in the motion of his Hon. Friend, and he was quite convinced that there were sufficient funds, if properly applied, to promote the purposes of education in this country. Mr. WARBURTON hoped the House would not agree to the proposal of the member for Southwark, and would accede to the motion of Mr. Roebuck. Mr. Harvey would, if his pro position were agreed to, embarrass the committee with labours to which they could not attend, and extend their enqui ries to such a length as that it would be impossible to bring them to a close during the Session, besides entailing great expense upon the country. The motion of the member for Southwark was a subject fit for the inquiry of a separate Committee. Sir R. PEEL thought it advisable that they should not embarrass the Committee moved for by the Member for Bath, with subjects which it might be well to refer to another Committee. He held then a paper in his hand respecting the inquiry of the Education Commissioners in parts of the United Kingdom, but they had not been yet able to bring their labours to a conclusion. If the House would grant any Com mittee at all, it would be well not to withdraw their attention from the particular objects of it, and another Committee might be appointed to which the subject of education could be gene rally referred. He hoped, with respect to the constitution of the Committee (if the Hon. Gentleman proposed naming them to-night), that the Members would be indifferently and fairly se lected, because that was the best way to insure confidence in their deliberation, and free it from the suspicion of bias on either side of the question.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") There might be all names of the highest respectability on the Committee, but if there was a great preponderance of opinion, there would be a prejudice against it. He would have the Mr. P. THOMPSON rose for the purpose of asking an explanation relative to a most erroneous statement of a speech that had been lately published relative to an Hon. Friend of his. The statement made by Mr. Prescott was, that the Marquis of Chandos had publicly asserted, and that the state ment had been uncontradicted by any member of the late Ad ministration or any of its adherents—that far some time past the Government had connived at the introduction of foreign grain through the channel islands, duty free; and that it had been been permitted in such quantities as to produce stagnation in the price of corn.—( Hear, and a laugh.) When that state ment had been pointed cut to him (Mr. P. T.) by the lion. Member for Norfolk, he observed that he did not believe the report to be correct, for he felt satisfied that the Noble Lord, the member for Buckinghamshire would not have made such a statement without believing it perfectly true, and if he had believed that it was true, lie should have called down upon the Government, guilty of such practices, the severest penalties. He (Mr. P. Thompson) had the pleasure since of hearing from the Noble Lord that that statement was not true. But as it was said that the report was uncontradicted, he thought it due to the Noble Lord (Chandos), to the late Govern ment, and to himself, as being at the head of the department most interested in the subject, to obtain a public contradiction or explanation, which he was sure the Noble Lord was ready to give ; and he himself (Mr. P. Thompson) gave a contra diction to those rumours, which he knew to be anonymously circulated in the public papers. He was anxious, at the same time, to call the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Baring) who now filled the situation he (Mr. T.) lately did to this "subject, because, if he were correctly informed, that Right Honourable Gentleman had, on a former occasion, when he ( Mr. T.) was not in his place, completely acquitted the Government which preceded him of any want of zeal or activity in endeavouring to put a stop to such proceedings. He was the more satisfied with this declaration, because from something which that Right Hon. Gentleman had said on an other occasion, led rather to the belief, that the change in the Government would cause greater care and attention to be paid to this particular point.—( Loud Cheers.) What ever might be his (Mr. T.'s) opinion respecting the political consequences arising from the change in the Government, he must say that as f a r as reg ar d e d te utmost attention that could be given had been paid by the late Government to the fullest extent that it could be paid by the Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Baring.) lie well knew that rumours of this kind were inustriously circulated, and for the reason that he held an opinion in opposition to the present Corn Laws—for that very reason he was anxious that they should be allowed to work their full effect, and that it would not be said that he imposed it in any way whatever. When the time came, ho would move for certain papers, which he believed there would be no objection to giving, but which would show the attention that had been paid to this subject, and the measures that it was in contemplation to take upon it, as soon as the Parliament should meet. For the present he would be content with this statement, as it would give the Noble Lord (Chandos) who he knew was desirous of doing so—an oppor tunity of repudiating the speech that had been attributed to him. Lord CHANDOS said his attention had been called to the subject, and he had no hesitation in stating that the re port was wholly incorrect—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BARING rose, but spoke in so low a tone, that we were unable for some time to catch the import of the Right Hon. Gentleman's observations. We understood him, how over, to say that he recollected the case to which the Right Hon. Gentleman alluded. He would state in reply, what he considered to be a case very similar to that of which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made mention. On one occasion on which he (Mr. B.) was put in nomination for Essex, he was accused on that occasion of being President of the Board of Trade, and the argument then employed was, that any person hold ing that situation must be an advocate of free trade, and unfit to superintend the concerns of agricultural districts. His answer was, that whatever came before his notice and Par liament, would meet with that care and attention which a sense of duty would create, and not at all to he operated on by the mere fact of his holding either this or that situation. He certainly did not impute any neglect to the Right lion. Gentleman in his explanation of the other evening; what he had stated was that one of the first subjects which came under his notice in his present capacity was the fact of there having been great fraud practised in the introduction of corn, both in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and he had thought it necessary to make inquiry into that representation, and on making the Board of Customs acquainted with his wishes, he found what he had seen stated to be correct, —that there had been great fraud practised in introducing corn from the Isle of Man, and more especially from Guernsey. A report was at present in progress, and as soon as that paper was ready, he should certainly have it laid before the House, upon which he hoped some measure would be proposed to the House, which would prevent the evil increasing. As he had be fore stated, fraud did undoubtedly exist, and it therefore be came him as much to ascertain the extent as it would be in cumbent on Parliament to apply remedies for its removal. The reason he had not before introduced a measure for the purpose was in consequence of the papers being in such an confused state, that he was anxious to get them into some arrangement, upon which some general measure might be introduced. He should, however, take the earliest opportunity of bringing in a bill on the subject, when he should take cccasion to tell the House the views which his Majesty's present Government entertained on the question. Mr. P. THOMPSON would just ask the Right Hon. Gen tleman one question, whether in the bill to be introduced it was intiTy4etletotaiiAd its provisions to the Channel Islands, as weiks** wk. i ; , tbA a 7 . -. kr" 43ARI VP . .f there . was any one part of . the s iilqrit:3Vosiil e iikuN , . ther, it was in the detection of f ' Aitille jilau ~-,:c„, ey—and certainly, therefore, its 'i ' - i - ,'",.. ~.,, THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 4, 1835. Committee so constructed, that it should be a fair representa tion of opposite opinions. But on the present Committee there was a great preponderance of opinion on one side—there were eight of that side of the House and only four on this. He did not want an exact balance ; he only claimed the power to himself—for there were many new Members.of the present Parliament whom they ought to initiate into the proceedings of the House—he only claimed the power of adding Members to the Committee, though he would not exclude those who sat before. He owned that though he was him self a Member of the Committee, it would not be in his power to give a regular attendance. He would much rather do this by amicable negociation, and that they should agree upon the names. The fairness of the prin ciple was admitted, and the House had recognised this as the true way of constituting committees, so that they should give a fair representation of opposite opinions. He would concur in the motion, and he only begged that the naming of the Committee should be postponed till to-morrow. Mr. ROEBUCK said, he had no objection to concur in the suggestion of the Right Hon. Baronet. He would just ob serve that there were many gentlemen now on the Committee sitting on his side of the House who, when the Committee was formed, sat on the other side.—( Laughter.) Though he had moved for the committee, it had ,been formed by the Go vernment which then existed in office, to his ( Mr. R.'s) wishes. Mr. D. W. HARVEY said that the intimation of the Right Hon. Baronet gave him great pleasure, and he hoped he would sanction the appointment of a Committee to ascer tain the real amount of property applicable to the educa tion of the people. Though he would not assume that this intimation was a pledge to this effect, he trusted that when lie should move for a Committee for that purpose, it would have the Right Hon. Baronet's sa nction. Without meaning to divide the House upon the subject, he would throw out a hint as to whether there was not something in the terms in which the motion was couched, that would render it inoperative. Amongst other things were the following as part of the motion—" And to consider the expe diency of further grants in aid of education." He could not understand how they could report upon the expediency of fur ther grants in ignorance of the amount of property now appli cable to this purpose. In order that the inquiry might not be rendered co-operative, he would bring the subject at no dis tant period before the House. Lord J. RUSSELL said he agreed with the Right. Hon. Baronet, that in the constitution of committees there ought to be as much fairness as possible. He would say that he had this object in view in the original formation of this Committee. —( Hear. hear.) Mr. FINN' rose and said he wished to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet, which he hoped he would have no ob jection to answer. The SPEAKER said he was sure the Hon. Gentleman would desist from the question he was about to put, as lie must be aware that he was not acting in accordance with the rules of the House in putting such questions when regular mo tions were before them. THE RATHCORMAC AFFAIR. Mr. O'DW Y R having been called upon by the Speaker, said he rose in pursuance of a motion which he had given some nights since that a report might he laid before the House relative to the late affair at Rathcormac, as well as that the troops should always fire with effect. When he gave notice of this motion, it appeared to excite, owing to misconception, some decree of ridicule from an Hon. Gentleman on the other side of the House. If. however, that gentleman would only consent to listen to justice, he thought he would be convinced that there was no occasion for such a display. He had felt it his duty to issue a circular let ter to the Commanding-officer, that when the King's troops came into collision with the people, that they should not be allowed to fire wide of them, but that practice should be discontinued ; and that when they are ordered to fire, that they should fire with a view to deal destruction on them. —( Heer, hear.) He did not wish to pass any recrimi natory observations on the officer who had felt it his duty to issue that letter—it was not his intention to im pute any unworthy motive to the officer in question, for he knew that he had on all occasions administered his high duty in a manner the most consistent with humanity ; but he thought that, if such orders had really been given, that the House should be made acquainted with them— ( Hear, hear)—whether it was wise, in the present state of Ireland,. to allow an officer in command to have such full powers was another question. He again repeated he had no accusation to make against the officer who had made use of this exercise of power, hut he had felt it his (Mr. O'Dwyer's) duty to make the House acquainted with the fact. The Honourable Gentleman concluded by moving, " That there be laid before - the House a copy of an order re cently issued to officers commanding troops in Ireland, directing, that in future military parties shall not be granted to .ssist in the collection of tithes, without special orders from the officer commanding in chief, and directing, that in the event of any collision between the King's troops and the populace, the highly improper practice hitherto pursued at times, of firing over the heads of the pea santry be discontinued, and that tile troops shall always fire with effect, or words to this import." Sir HENRY H ARD INGE had heard with great satisfac tion the statement of the Hon. Gentleman without at all crimi nating his ( Sir Henry's) Gallant Friend who gave the order, for he was perfectly satisfied that his Gallant Friend was on every occasion animated by a spirit of kindness for the people. —(Hear, hear, hear.) With regard to the motion of the Honourable Member, he did not understand whether in the terms he had used, he alluded to an order directing that in future military parties should not, without special orders from the Commanding Officer, he called upon to assist, or whether it alluded to any other order ? lie begged to state to the Honourable Member, that if he alluded to any order for the collection of tithes, which was merely in effect a circular order, there would not be the slightest objection on the part of the Government to lay that on the table, because that order merely laid down the mode in which military aid should be granted to the tithe-owner ; but if the Hon. Member alluded to confidential instructions, given to the Gallant General, or to the officers commanding any of the regiments he, (Sir. H. H.) was afraid it would be his duty to resist the production of any such order, on account of tho very inconvenient precedent which would he established by adopting such a course now. With the permission of the House, he would mention what his Gallant Friend had stated upon one occasion, which would show that upon all subjects connected with the military he was always actuated by a kind feeling towards the people.—(llear. ) He then proceeded to read the letter of his Gallant Friend, which he said was written in consequence of a requisition, emanating from the magistrates, for the employment of the military on the occasion referred to. If that was the order which the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. O'Dwyer) desired to have produced, he ( Sir H. H.) had no objections to the production of it, or any other circular emanating from the same source; but if it was required to produce the confidential com munications that took place between the commander of the troops and the officer of the day, he felt it his duty to oppose any such motion. When the Hon. Gentleman made his motion, lie ( Sir H. Hardinge) wrote to his Gallant Friend on the sub ject, and in reply he stated that he was desirous not only of having that order laid upon the table, or any other order that ever issued from him, because he ( Sir H. Hardinge) was confident that all would redound to the honour and credit of that distinguished officer. But on principle he felt himself bound, in order to prevent the establishing of a precedent, to oppose a motion for the publication of such confidential communications. As the Honourable Member (Mr. O'Dwyer) has expressed himself satisfied with the conduct of his ( Sir H. Hardinge's) gallant Friend, he hoped he would not persevere in his motion, for, should lie perse vere, the most inconvenient results would follow.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member has stated, that the military employed on the melancholy occasion referred to, could have dislodged the peasantry, had they so pleased, without the ef fusion of blood. Now he (Sir H. H.) totally dissented from this proposition, and had the Hon. Member read the evidence carefully taken before the Coroner's Inquest, he was confident he (Mr. O'D. ) would have arrived at an opposite conclusion. Ile repeated, he was, from principle, opposed to the pro duction of any confidential communications ; he was willing, however, to lay upon the table any orderi or circulars that were of a public nature. Mr. O'DW YER thought that it might have been possi ble to dislodge the peasantry without going to the extremity of firing upon them. Without divulging the orders which had been given to the officers employed in that melancholy occasion, he thought that the Government might have com municated to the House and the public sufficient information to satisfy the unfortunate peasantry, and the relatives of the persons killed. Mr. H. GR ATTAN was never more surprised than at the tone which had been adopted by the Government on this oc casion, and at the sneers which he had heaid from the other side of the House. What did the conduct of Government imply but to tell the military to shoot the peasantry where they could ? In one of the battles during the late war it was said that the two armies being near each other, the first volley laid low seven hundred men. Now, this was what he called firing hawhichhaving listenedo the dy voiceto give f Major hnnta n I ) n V y a_ .. l t e 7 r 2 full tne n credit , point blank ; but on the late melancholy occasion in Ireland— inmor close to their victims, and yet, comparatively, little execu tion was done. Lately, again, a person. was killed in the public streets of a populous town in broad daylight by the Orange banditti. All these things had been occasioned by the accession of the present Government; and it was, therefore, absolutely necessary to protect the peasantry and the Irish people against the consequences of the encouragement which was thus given to such occurrences by the existence of a Tory Ministry.—(Hear, hear.) Had the present Ap ministration not come into power, he was sure that the pea santry killed at Rathcormac would not have fallen; for such massacres were caused by the impunity which the parties knew they would experience from the magistracy, from the Irish authorities, and from the Government here. He would beg to inquire what was the use of such an order if it was not published ? The soldiers of course are aware that whatever orders they receive from their commanding officers they must obey. But there was another party whom it was important should know what orders were issued to the military, as they would then probably keep out of danger.— (Hear, and a laugh.) The Government, he contended, were bound to make these orders public, because their publication would most likely have the effect of making the people guard against the danger to which their opposition would subject them. It was not only necessary to make these orders public in that House, but in every parish and town-land in Ireland.— Hear.) In illustration of the necessity of such a course, lie would just mention that in one of these cases of collision be tween the military and the people, two men were shot ; and twe others, naked and unarmed, stepped into the places of those whe had fallen, so little conscious were they of the danger to which they were exposed. He would respectfully submit to the in dividuals lately come into that House, and more especially ti his Majesty's Government, to give up those high prejudices and factious proceedings by which they had so long governed that country (Ireland). If the Government made it their prat tice to return thanks to the military, because their conduct had met the approval of two clerical magistrates who acted upon the occasion, and who were interested in the collection of the tithes, they would stamp their Administration with disgrace. He would tell them fearlessly that it would be impossible for them to carry on their Government with security to property, or peace to the country, if they proceeded with such violent measures as were in the orders which he had moved for the production of— measures which were more fitted for the atmosphere of Russia than of that country.--( Hear ! hear.) He called upon all honest and independent gentlemen to come forward that night, and protect them from such sanguinary proceedings—• he called upon them to protect the country and the people of Ireland from the consequences of such sanguinary proceed ings. He would recommend the Government to look to the years 1795 and 1796, when similar orders had been issued. He referred them to the dismemberment of the militia in the North by order of General Lake. At that time there was a man who objected to those sanguinary orders—that individual was the father of the present speaker, and whose name the people of Ireland held in everlasting remembrance.—( Loud cheers.) Let it not go forth to the world that the accession of . ..he pre sent Ministry to power was marked by such sanguinary scenes as those which had been enacted at Rethcormac. If the orders which had been issued were good, why should they not be disclosed, and if the contrary, why had they not been rescinded? He should press the ques tion to a division, even if he stood alone, or if his Hon. Friend thought proper to withdraw his motion. Sir CHARLES D'ALBIAC said that as a general officer of the Staff of Great Britain, he could not re frain from offering a few observations upon the ques tion before the House, though he would not follow the Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, through all the extraneous matter he had introduced. In cases when the military were called out to suppress riots, the assemblies must always understand, he supposed, that after the reading of the Riot Act, and the orders of the acting magis trate to do their duty, that to remain on the spot was to expose themselves to inevitable danger. No duty was so painful, so distressing, and so difficult, as that of suppressing disturbances, as the troops must be conscions that they were about to take the lives of their fellow-subjects, and perhaps of dearer connections.—( Hear, hear, hear.) But the first duty of a British soldier was obedience, and if a proper discipline was not kept up, the consequences would be more injurious than those of the greatest severity. This :he had seen in the case of Bristol.—(" Oh, oh," and Question.") Ile declared that after the full knowledge of the whole of that unfortunate occurrence at Bristol, he was sure that it had proceeded en tirely and exclusively from a mistaken lenity. ( Cries of " Oh, oh !" and " Question.") A mistaken lenity, he re peated, most scandalously and shamefully abused. If the troops had done their duty by their moving about actively and keeping the mob in motion, no evil woul have ensued, like that which did occur, or at least there would not have been more than half a dozen broken heads.—(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.") If that day had been such a day as this, the whole city would have been in flames.—( Hear.) He begged, in connection with this subject, to say a few words upon a motion made last night.—( Oh 1 and " Chair, chair.") The SPEAKER requested the lion. Gentleman to keep to the question. He could not remark upon the motion of last night, unless it related to the subject before the House. Sir C. D'ALBIAC replied that it did relate to the ques tion, but he did not pursue his remarks. Mr. L ITTLETON hoped his Honourable Friend, the Member for Drogheda, would not press his motion to a divi sion, because if he did he would be obliged to vote with the Gallant Secretary for Ireland. The Learned Member did the rentleman who commanded the King's troops in Ireland no mere than justice, that it would be quite impossible to find a man more thoroughly imbued with the principles of humanity and benevolence. Mr. O'C ONN E LL did net like to enter into an Irish question of great importance by any thing like what. .might be called a by-path ; but lie would just observe that the people at Rath cormac did not expect any firing at all. They had been told, and he believed rightly, that it was a trespass to enter an en closed field for the purpose of levying tithe, and they did not believe that it was intended to enforce a trespass by means of the soldiery. He would not say more upon the point at pre sent, but he must protest against the doctrine that had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Officer on the other side, and he did so the more readily because it related to this country. The Hon. and Gallant Officer had said that the first duty of a soldier was obedience. True, it was so, if the order was it self lawful ; but if the soldier was directed to do any thing against the law, and he were to execute that order to the ex tent of taking away the life of another, he would be guilty of murder, even though he obeyed his officer or the magistrate. Sir CHARLES D'ALBIAC begged to explain. His principle was this—that if an officer were ordered by Lord Hill, or the Secretary of the Home Department, to obey the orders of the metropolitan magistrates, and he were to refuse to obey them, he would throw himself open to the laws of his country for any ill consequence that ensued, and to reprehen sion and punishment by his Sovereign. Mr. O'CONNELL did not mean to say that the Hon. and Gallant Officer was not bound to obey a legitimate order, but the Hon. and Gallant Officer conceived that it was his duty to obey, at all events ; and that the duty of obedience justified the act on his part. Sir CHARLES D'ALBIAC—Most unquestionably I say it is. If the magistrate should give ever so imprudent or ca pricious an order, if I were not sensible of any impropriety in obeying the order of that magistrate, it would be my duty to obey that order. Sir R. PEEL must, in the first place, bear his tes timony to all that had been said in favour, not only of the gal lantry and distinguished services that had marked the career of Sir Hussey Vivian, but also of his humanity. The real question before the House was, whether it was desirable to establish the precedent of calling for the production of confi dential orders issued from the Horse Guards to the troops. If the practice had hitherto prevailed of firing over the beads of the people, and that had led the people to rush in upon the soldiery, so that a greater loss of life had ultimately taken place than would have happened if the first fire had been done effectively, might it not be perfectly consistent with the in terests of humanity to give a caution to the troops—(Great cheering) —not "to lead the people into error by that prac tice in future? Might it not also be perfectly consistent with humanity to specify to the commanding officers, who were responsible for the result, in what manner they might conduct the delicate and difficult service in which they were engaged, that should at the same time ensure the least risk of the effu sion of human blood with the greatest probability of restoring and preserving the public peace? But if those suggestions and orders were to be promulgated to the world, those who wished to attack the troops would know the precise course to be pursued for that purpose. The order in question was made for the double object of providing protection for the people and for the military. Both objects would, however, be defeated by the promulgation of this order. Mr. HUME : The Right Honourable Baronet appeared anxious that the officers and soldiers acting under them should be protected ; but his feelings of sensibility stopped there—he had no regard apparently for the people.—(Cheers by the Opposition. ) Sir ROBERT PEEL: I say at once, Sir, that the object of those who issued the order was not so much to provide for the security of the troops, as to provide for' the security of the people.--( Cheers. ) Mr. HUME : No doubt that was the Right Honourable Baronet's belief ; but what was the effect of the order ? Could it answer any good purpose to keep those who were liable to the additional punishment, so to call it, which the Honourable Baronet hail made out a case why the order ought to be produced. He would a.;1( the Right Honourable Baro net whether, because this was a new and unheard of order that was therefore a reason why it should not be produced, particu larly when it was shown that many lives had been sacrificed to this unknown law ? The House ought to persevere till the order was produced; and he, for one, should certainly support the motion of the Honourable Member for Drogheda. Mr. CHARLES GRANT szid, one reason pressed upon his mind in favour of the motion—for it struck him that if the order was (as he believed it to be) a. humane order, its huma nity consisted in its being a public orders—( Cheers.) A se cret order would be more in the nature of an act of inhumanity. Sir ROBERT PEEL—AII he asked of the House was to leave the matter for the present in the hands of Government. After a few words from Mr. SHEIL, Mr. SHAW, and Mr. I le RDY, Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished if possible to take some course on the question which would satisfy what he considered the just wishes of a great portion of the House. He could feel no doubt when the Right Honourable Gentleman who first opposed the motion had told them that the production of the order would be injurious to the public service, that he must feel there was good and satisfactory reasons for his taking upon himself the responsibility of the refusal—( Hear.) ()lithe other hand, he (Lord John Russell), like his Honourable Friend near him, did feel that it was an order of such a na ture that its humanity consisted—almost entirely consisted—in its being known to and understood by those whose ignorance of its contents might involve them in a scene of slaughter to which they would not otherwise be expoSed--( Hear, hear.) Between these two difficulties he was desirous of offering a suggestion to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, which he trusted would remove both. It was, whether the Commander in-Chief, Sir Hussey Vivian, having, as he understood, no objection to give publicity to the order, some order might not be issued, or some regulation established in Ireland, by which this order might be promulgated and made generally known to the public. If this were done, he thought the House would be satisfied, and that the order itself, being of a confi dential nature, or of a description which it is not usual to produce, could not fairly be required to be laid before the Housc.—( Hear, hear. ) Sir HENRY Id ARDINGE agreed with the Noble Lord ( Lord John Russell) and the Hon. Member for Inverness • shire, that it might be very possible for the Commander-in- Chief, not only in Ireland, but in England and Scotland also, to promulgate the substance of the order in such a manner as that the public might be informed of the course the military were instructed to adopt, in the event of any of those unfor tunate and unhappy collisions in which they were sometimes involved with the metropolis.—( Cheers.) Under these cir cumstances, he trusted it would be satisfactory to the House that his Right Hon. Friend near him would communicate with the C o mmander-in-Chief, and that such an order should be promulgated, as would remove any doubts or uncertainty that might exist.—( Cheers.) He hoped this explanation would be satisfactory, and at the same time he trusted the House would agree with him as to the inconvenience of laying down the precedent now sought to be established.—( Question.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped, after what had just fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the Hon. Member for Drogheda would not object to withdraw his motion. Mr. O'D WYE R was proceeding to address the House, amidst a general cry of " Question !" when—. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that after the turn the debate I had taken, he apprehended it must occur to every one, that if publicity were the object in view, the mere production of a Parliamentary paper could not attain it. Again he said, leave the matter in the hands of the responsible Government. Mr. HUME wished to ask whether the Right,Hon. Gen tleman's meaning was, that the order in question should be cancelled, and another issued by the Commandc,r.in-Chief, applicable to the whole of the United Kinge.om ? If this were the intention of Government, nothing could be more satisfactory. Sir HENRY HARDINGE explained his meaning to he, that an older would be issued by the Commander-in. Chief, which would show to the whole of the United Kingdom what course would be pursued under similar circumstances to those of Rathco: . mac. After a few words from Mr. FINN— Mr. O'DWYER consented to withdraw his motion, on the understanding that another order, applicable to all parts of the United Kingdom, would be issued. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS. Mr. GISBO RN E, in rising to make the motion of which he had given notice, begged, in the first instance, to set him self right with the House, by stating that he had since been informed that the object he had in view could be effected by a simple resolution. He therefore simply proposed to move, " That in all cases where an election shall be declared void on the ground of bribery or treating, it is expedient that the expense of the petitioners should be borne by the public." He believed not only that it was perfectly competent to the House to carry this object into effect by a specific resolution, but that it was in strict accordance with the practice which had been constantly pursued in similar inquiries, even without any Act of Parliament on the subject. His motion, in its original shape, proceeded thus : " but that in every case in which a sitting member shall be declared, on the ground of bribery or treating, incapable of sitting again in the same Par liament, the expenses of the petitioners shall be borne by the unseated member." It had, however, occurred to him, that the object of the motion might be effected by the House adopt ing a resolution that it be an instruction to the Committee in all cases in which bribery and treating were proved against Committee of an act of bribery on the part of the petitioner —if the question as to his guilt was not gone into at all, how ever guilty he might in reality be, still he would be entitled to all his expenses.—(Hear, hear.) He felt that he would not be doing his duty it he did not oppose this motion in its present shape, especially as it pledged the House to a resolu tion different to the present practice of Committees. It might be right that a petitioner in such a case should be borne out harmless, and without being put to any expense—of that he would at present give no opinion, but he would warn the House against giving a precipitate vote upon this or any other subject, without being exactly aware bow far the resolution might carry them. Mr. HUME said that if his Hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire were to wait until the matter was settled in the other House, he might wait a long time ; at the same time he (Mr. Hume) acknowledged that he could not exactly see his way through his Hon. Friend's motion. The principle was sufficiently clear, that as the public suffered by the bribery, the public ought to pay the expenses ; but while this principle was admitted, it ought, for the safety of the public, to be sub jected to the strictest rules. He thought that his Hon. Friend ought to postpone his motion for the-present.—( Hear.) Mr. JERVIS objected to the public bearing any part of the expense, and thought that the costs should fall upon the party who was unsuccessful in the petition. Mr. BARING would put a case to show the Hon. Member that his motion was likely to fail in the object which he had in view. Suppose a person who had been guilty of bribery and corruption in his own person, and who therefore did not wish to petition, putting a man of straw up as a petitioner : in that case no bribery could be proved against the petitioner ; but if the petition were successful, all the advantage would be in fa vour of a person who had in reality been guilty of bribery and corruption, and still that person, according to the terms of the motion, would be entitled to his expenses. After a few words from an Hon. Member, Mr. G I SBOR NE said that he admitted tbe force of a great deal that had been said by the Right Hon. Baronet, and would postpone his motion till a future day. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. Mr. FOSTER then withdrew the amendment upon the motion of the Hon. Member for Derbyshire, of which he had , riven notice, and stated, that whenever the question came to be again discussed, he hoped that " intimidation or violence" would be equally guarded against.---( Hear, hear.) THE RATHCORMAC INQUEST. the candidates, to report that the petition, on their parts, was frivolous and vexatious. He merely suggested this as a point that had occurred to him, but the form in which 'he would now word his motion was this :—" That in all cases in which the election shall be declared void, or the sitting Members shall be unseated, on the ground of bribery and corruption, and in which it shall not be reported to the House by the Committee appointed to try the petition that the petitioners have been guilty of similar practices, it is expedient that the expenses of the petitioners shall be borne by the public at large." The ground on which he brought forward the motion was to afford additional faci lities for the prevention of bribery ; the fact being that the ex pense of proving bribery and corruption before the House afforded a positive protection in every case in which a rich man was opposed by a poor man. Bribery could be committed with perfect impunity and security in every case in which a rich and powerful party in a borough were opposed only by less wealthy people.—' Hear, hear.) He held that in no case could the public money be better expended than in purifying the constitution of that House, and that it was its duty to use Mr. FE ARGUS O'CONNOR then rose to move for a copy of the evidence taken before the Coroner on an inquest held at Ratheormac, in the county of Cork, upon the bodies of nine persons who lost their lives at Gurtroc on the 18th of December last : also a copy of the finding of the jury, and a correspondence which took place between the Government and the Military Secretary and the Magistrates of the county of Cork, relative to the granting of troops for the collection of tithes and arrears of tithes in the palish of Gurtroc. His present object was not to inculpate the magistracy, and he should therefore confine the few remarks he should make to the conduct of the military upon that occasion. The Hon. Member for Meath had said that there were nine men killed upon that occasion, and nine wounded. The Hon' Member was entirely mistaken as to the numbers. There were nine men killed, on whom an inquest was held, and there were two more carried away by their friends, and on w ham no inquest was held ; seven were mortally wounded, and thirty five more were more or less wounded. In all there were more than seventy shots fired. It was said that the military bad endeavoured to intimidate the people before they fired ; but if he could get a court-martial upon the military, which was his object, he should be able to establish an absolute want of dis cipline on the part of the commanding officer, and of gross and extraordinary cruelty on the part of the soldiers. Tbe Hon. Member was proceeding, when he was interrupted by Sir HENRY HAR DING E, who put it to the Hon. Mem ber whether, in the present state of the question, it was proper to bring torward such exciting subjects; and hoped, after the feeling previously shown in the House upon the subject, that he would not persevere in the motion. Mr. O'CONNOR said, that being Member for the county of Cork, where the unfortunate transaction t oo k pl ace , and having been counsel for the friends of the victims at the in quest, he thought it a hard case that he was not allowed to bring the subject before the House. Mr. SHAW reminded the Hon. and Learned Member, that the soldiery were amenable to the criminal Hear.) , Mr. H UME was understood to ag ree w ith th e H on . and Learned Member for the University of Dublin. Mr. O'CONNOR then withdrew his motion, at the saints time stating, that when the proper ti me arr i ve d h e would bring the case fully before the House. Sir H. II A RDINGE expressed his conviction that the conduct of the Commanding-officer, if he were ever brought to trial, would be found to he perfectly proper and correct. DIVISION OF THE HOUSE. Sir S. WHALLEY then brought forward his motion--' ,‘ That as a number of Members, larger than there is any pre" cedent of, has divided within the present House without in convenience, it is expedient, with a view to save time, and to relieve the Speaker from an unpleasant duty, that all division, shall for the future take place within the House." He sai d that there were great inconveniences from the present manner of dividing, especially in regard to the loss of time, and from Members, in large divisions, losing their seats. Another in convenience was, that after large divisions there was such coo. fusion in the House that no business could be transacted. Mr. WARBURTON said that if means had been taken by the House to take the names of Members in each division, ho might, perhaps, agree to the motion of the Hon. Member for Marylebone ; but as the Hon. Member's motion would add 0 the great difficulty already existing, of ascertaining the name!+ he would oppose any such motion, as long as the House tools no steps towards regularly taking the names of Members vot ing upon each division. Mr. PR YME recommended the adoption of the suggestion, that the Speaker should be empowered to direct either side t° withdraw to the lobby in case of a division, should it be coesi dered necessary for either party to do so. Sir GEORGE CLERK said by one party withdrawing t° the lobby, there would be less confusion and loss of time, 08 , 1 s by any other course that could be pursued. Much inconven' ence would be found to result from th e ma j or ity p ass ing °ve r to the seats previously occupied by the mi nor ity. At preset!, the arrangement was, that the party that opposed the Speake r decision on any question, had to go out; thus it often ban pened that the majority might be compelled t o go into Ow lobby if they called for a division. Sir SAMUEL WEI ALLE Y said that after the feeling ° I the House had been so stt ongly displayed, he would not Pre ss his resolution.—( Hear.) The object he had i n v i e w in bring' ing it forward was solely to promote the convenience of til ts House. If Hon. Gentlemen had adopted hi s v i e ws upon this point, he had intended to suggest, with r egar d to take the divisions, that the Clerk should accompany the Tellers--: on taking the divisions—with a printed list, and that k° should prick with a pin, opposite the name of each Membe r ' as he voted. The motion was then withdrawn. LOCAL COURTS. every possible engine in its power for 'the detection and pu nishment of cases of bribery. He did not know what objection could be urged against the motion; he believed that the amount of expense it could entail upon the public would be ex tremely small, that bribery would be greatly diminished, and that it would act as a prevention rather than as a cure. He would put a case in which such a resolution as the present would be very beneficial. They all knew that in many cases in which bribery was committed to a great extent, no man had an interest in bringing it forward, because, where both parties had resorted to the same means of corrupting the voters, the unsuccessful candidate knew he would not benefit himself by unseating the other Member. But why should not the honest, uncorrupted, and independent electors have a ready and unexpensive mode of coming before the house, and showing that the corruption was so general and extensive, that their rights were in fact swamped, and rendered of no avail? He bad been informed that the objection to the present motion which would be urged on the part of the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General was, that it was not competent to the House to impose these expenses on the public by a simple resolution, and that it ought to be done by a Bill ; now he objected to bringing in a bill, because it would not meet. the case of the present Parliament; he wished the alteration to laply to the election petitions already in progress, of which he knew nothing, and with the merits of which he was wholly unacquainted. The present motion had reference to no particular party or case. He wished it to come into'operation at once, and denied its being an ex post facto law, because it was merely an equi valent to a reward on the detection of bribery, imposing no ad ditional punishment on the party involved thin that which arose from providing greater facilities for its detection. He merely wished to carry the motion as a matter of principle, leaving the details to be settled and carried into effect here after. It might be objected that the resolution would give rise to frivolous and vexatious proceedings. In the first place, the parties must run all the risk of a great outlay of money, and considerable expense—an inconvenience to which they were not likely to expose themselves unnecessarily and without cause. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by making the motion, which was seconded, and the question was then put. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that his attention had only been recently called to the subject, and that he had consequently been unable to give it that consideration which he was anxious to bestow on every subject, whatever its individual importance might be. As he understood the Hon. Gentleman, he had appealed to him whether there was any difficulty in the resolution he proposed. It certainly appeared to him that, with respect to the second part of it, there was very great difficulty. The Hon. Gentleman disapproved of the existing law in this respect. He really thought the resolution he proposed would make the matter worse. To fetter the judgment of an election gommittee, who are to decide upon their oaths according to the evidence, to declare that in certain eases the petition should be considered frivolous and vexatious, whether the committee thought so or not, did appear to him a very inconvenient and somewhat awkward mode of proceeding to put down bribery and corruption. He had no intention whatever of opposing the spirit of the resolution—ie could have none. He was ready to cancur with any Hon. Member on either side of the House in any measure having for its object the correction of bribery and corruption, or of violence and intimidation at elections. He could assure his Hon. Friend that if he would adopt the more legitimate course of introducing some bill for that pur pose, he would give him the best assistance in private, and also by his vote in public, by supporting the measure as far as he conceived it calculated to produce beneficial results.—( Hear.) He thought this a very inconvenient mode of introducing the subject. In the first place, he did not know, supposing the House to concur with the Hon. mover of the Resolution, how it could be carried into effect. Undoubtedly the House had the power of voting a sum of money for this or any other purpose, and of including it in the Appropriation Bill at the end of the session, and by that means obtaining the consent of the Lords and of the Crown ; but he did not apprehend that a mere resolution of that House would have the effect of a general law, declaring that one whole class of expense's should be paid out of the public purse, without the slightest reference to the individual circumstances or urgency of each particular case. He con ceived that though it was in the power of the House to vote a sum of money for a"particular discovery, arid to include it in the Appropriation Bill afterwards, it would scarcely be com petent to them by some general resolution to award a sum of money to every petitioner without reference to the merits of each case, and thus give the resolution the effect of a general law. It would be necessary in every case to adopt a different resolution, and the House would thereby bind itself to deter mine upon the merits of each. He would conclude by again recommending the Hon. Gentleman to adopt the more regular course of introducing a Bill to adapt the regulations he thought necessary to cases of bribery and corruption ; and he had no objection to add—adverting to a notice of amendment he bad seen—to cases of violence and intimidation. Mr. WYNN expressed his entire concurrence in the opinion expressed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down. He considered it decidedly against every rule of prac tice, and the whole spirit of the law, to withdraw the consi deration of every individual case from the authorit , of the House, and • to decide every case that might arise by Act of Parliament. The Act fixed the payment of costs in certain cases on the sitting Members : a resolution of the House had no power to impose it on others. He thought the motion, if it were carried, would give rise to an incalculable quantity of frivolous and vexatious 'objections; and that in almost every case of a contested election, they would have petitions pre sented complaining of the return. Sir J. CAMPBELL was understood to say that the motion only applied to petitioners who were successful. If the peti tioner succeeded in unseating the Member, then be was to have his expenses, and not otherwise. He thought that this was a rule which might very properly apply to all cases. Sir ROBERT PEEL was satisfied that the House would never consent to affirm a resolution,. pledging the public to pay all the expenses of successful petitioners who might not them selves be found guilty of bribery, and that without there being any limit or restriction as to those expenses. In the present instance, however, the Hon. Member for Derbyshire had given notice of a motion, which the House had met to discuss, but that motion the Hon. Member bad chosen to alter, and they were now called on, withotit having received any notice, to agree to another motion, which called upon the House to pledge the public to pay the expenses of petitions in all cases where the elections shall be declared void on the ground of bribery, and that without limitation or specification. He ( Sir R. Peel) hoped that the House would not agree to a motion of this nature, without having received notice of it. He stood there as the guardian of the public funds, and he should be unwilling that the public should sustain any injury, without his standing up in defence of it. The resolution as it now stood stated—" That in all cases in which the election shall be declared void, or the sitting Members shall be unseated on the ground of bribery and corruption, and in which it shall not be reported to the House by the Committee appointed to try the petition, that the petitioners have been guilty of similar practices, it is expedient that the expenses of the pe titioners shall be borne by the public at large." This assumed that there was no other petitioner but the candidate. But a petition might come from voters. Another view of the case was, that according to the present practice of Election Committees, it is not usual to go into the case of the peti tioner at all. But the Hon. Member by his motion said, that in case the Member was unseated, and no bribery was reported by the Committee to have taken place on the other side, then the expenses of the petitioner were to fall upon the public. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) said, that it was not sufficient that the Committee should make no report. lie would say that the Committee ought specifically to report that the petitioner was not guilty of bribery or corruption. Ought the Committee not to examine into the question of whether the petitioner was guilty of bribery or not 2---( Hear.) But the Hon. Member said, that if no report was made by the In answer to a question by Sir JOHN CAMPBELL, , The ATTORNEY-GENERAL stat e d th a t h e intenci e . ll to give notice of his intention of moving for leave to bring. i j a Bill to facilitate the administration of justice in Loc Courts.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. FINN said that he was nnxious to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) on a subject wh ic o seriously affected the peace of Ireland. He wished to lo ° . whether the statem en t w hi c h h e h a d seen i n some o f the no w l papers was correct—nam e ly, th a t hi s M a j es ty h a d receic e ? certain addresses f rom an ill ega l an d unconstitutional socio t ia It was stated that the O ra ng emen o f F ermanag h, Cork, 6 ,_ 11 2 . Down had pres e nt e d add resses , an d h e w i s h e d t o k now whet his Majesty had been recommended by his responsible adviser to receive them ? est Sir R. PEEL re c ommen d e d th e H on . M em b er to roll 0 his question when the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland W in his place. He was himself unable to give an answer. r e Mr. FINN said that he would put th e ques ti on o n a fu e "' occasion. Mr. HUME asked whether any steps had been taken r i e ls :, tive to the pension enjoyed by Lord D ung l ass . onu i e be stood that the late Government promised t o i nv estigate ` subject. to Mr. J. A. MURRAY said that shortly before he ceas o f hold the office of Lord Advocate, he knew that the matter' s undergoing investigation. Mr. HUME expressed his determination to press the I d le ject on the attention of the House. It was a matter that Ow not to be suffered to rest. ,bl eb Sir G. CLERK presented a number of returns, Ix., 11 had been ordered. 't eal Mr. G. F. YOUNG trusted that the pres e nt Goverik7 would fulfil a promise m a d e by th e i r p re d ecessor s in u — t he namely, to take care that the Estimates should be laid 011 table at such an early period, that there was ample ti' their examination. s et' On the motion of Lord EBRINGTON, a return W s fet dered of all the fees levied under the statute of last session' the regulation of weights and measures. Meer / Mr. HUME asked upon w h a t p r i nc ipl e th e maritime e of the East India Company had been ordered to receiv e tain pensions F. b YOUNG the House? 13 06 Mr. G. replied that she regulation took Po under an Act passed last year, and w hi c h was discussed . t House. The House adjourned at a quarter past eight o'clock, BIRTHS. Lately, at Hinton St. George, the Countess Poulett, of a s °l o . l 0 On the 3d inst., at East Sheen, Lady Charlotte Penrhr' daughter, still-born. o f filo! Qn the Ist inst., in N or th C as tl e - s t ree t, Edi n b urg h, the . Andrew M. M'Crae, Es of a son On the 2d inst , in Mount place,. Mrs. James Goldie,2ll l !--"" °°' MA It It Its D. ilei ji On the 3d inst. a t E n fi e ld, th e R ev. J ames Sh erma n, o f b ing, to Martha, only daughter of Benj. Tucker, Esq., of 1741tosij On the 3d inst., at St. Giles's, Camberwell, Mr. James ri est J ' to Rebecca, yo unges t d aug h ter o f t h e l ate M r. Willi a m ° Hornsey-road. zislei' On the 3d inst., at St. Andrew's, Holborn, Mr. ThornaL o deif of Alangersbury, Gloucestershire, to Mary Jones, late a P r° Kent. __..."' DIED. nA fest' On the 23d u lt., a t F ran kf ort-sur- M a i ne, i n his 3 '" eet Stephen, second son o f th e l ate C apta i n C um b er l ege , ,f the East India Service. set On the 24th ult., a t A s hd owne H ouse, S ussex, a t !-n „ht age, the Hon. M rs . F u ll er, on l y d aug h ter o f the iiie-be George Augustus Eli o tt L or d H eathf i eld, and s i ste r of RlB, be and mother of Sir Trayton Fuller Eliott Drake, Bi r s' t lady was lineally de scen d e d f rom Si r F ranc i s D ra k e , the cumnavigator. • --- 1 4- TO ° London : P r i n t e d an d P u bli s h e d b y MU II DO YOTIN ~ to ti ti° 112, Strand, at Th e S un O ffi ce , N o . 112 i , Strand, n to e of Middlesex. 00 'h vi C 4 1 .1 41110„. P O 4t a n r tkrri 2 0 • ri . ri kj 1 Sto w Fi ne G oo S upe Very ~o d Ditt , ° qeP,e, \