The Sun. — London, England, 1848-06-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. from which some goo - 1 to the people might have resulted. The real advance, however, instead of a million and it half, had only been, according:to the last return, 2e0,000/.. and tnis was to improve 19 millions of acres of land! The great object was to improve the agriculture of Ire land, and increase the production; and in doing this, they ought not to lose sight of the fact that it had been necessary to supply an extensive destruction of the staple food of six millions of people. But the Legisla ture had passed the poor-law. He for one did not com plain of that law, In some electoral divisions, it was true, the poor-rate was 35., 55., or 7s. in the pound; and in one division in the west of Ireland it amounted to ac tually more than the landlords received. He did not suffer from any such burden; in two of the divisions on his estates the rate was only 2d., and in none was it higher than 2s. If the poor-rate was no higher throughout Ireland than in the county of Wicklow, no landlord would have reason to complain. He bad stated these facts to show that he could not be actuated by any personal feeling in the matter. But when the rate amounted to 35., 55., and 7s. in the pound, the matter was one demanding serious consideration. He asked their Lordships—and he knew what must be the answer—whether they desired the continuance of a state of things which must render property valueless, and at the same time destroy a most useful class of society in Ireland, on whom the burden of these rates fell? He was confident that unless the House reconsidered that measure, in its incidence upon property, and in the divisions which had been made for the purpose of rating, the result he had indicated must ensue, especially in the county of Donegal and others in the west of Ireland. It would necessarily involve the ruin of a large class of proprietors; it would ruin a Noble Friend near him (here the Noble Lord pointed to some one on the Ministerial bench); and, after such extensive ruin, he would ask what could stand between the Go vernment of that country and the wild democracy ? (Hear.) By whom would the mob then be wielded ? (Hear.) He implored the aid of their Lordships to avert this evil, and to lose no time in doing one thing which was most essential to the tranquillity of Ireland, and to its physical well-being. They had made the property of Ireland liable to support the poverty of Ire land, but let them take care that that property retained its attitude as prOperty, and let them cause it to support one thing more. He must ask them to impose one more burden upon it, to be taken from the shoulders of the people. For the sake of peace and tranquillity, the se curity of the Protestant Church, and the safe ty of the empire, he asked their Lordships to establish the Roman Catholic religion in that country. This was most essen tial, and he would tell his Right Rev. Friends behind him that if they would not have Roman Catholic prelates sit ting here, this must be done. The Roman Catholic priests ought to be paid as stipendiary clergym en; no diff erenc e must be made between them and th e Pro to use a common phra se , t h ey must platter.—(La ug ht er. ) He would t f e e s e t d an h t ut cl o e f rgy th m e en sa ; now return to the question—what had been done for Ireland this session? Last session the Encumbered Es tates Bill had been sacrificed to English interests.—(No, no .) He maintained that this was the case, but were the measure passed, and found to work very smoothly and successfully, its operation would be extremely slow, and it would be a long time before any beneficial change would be produced thereby. If it were meant to allow English interests to purchase large estates in Ireland, he anticipated no great benefit from the change. Every one knew what happened when an estate changed hands; even in this country, he knew an instance in the north of England where a large estate had been sold, and the first • rst considera tion of th e new proprietor was, how much additional rent he could raise out of the property. He would much rather see the existing Irish proprietors go odes well as they coded than see them replaced by others. IF it were said, "We have passed the poor-law, what else can we do?" he would answer, let the poor-law be made to fulfil the object for which it was passed—to maintain the destitute, and gradually to diminish pauperism. Had it done so hitherto? On this head he was prepared with a variety of document,. In the union of Belinrobe, where the population was 85,000, on the 7th of February last 25,000 were receiving rations, the following week they were upwards of 26,000, and the relief cost 7001. a week, or about 35,0001. a year—being something like per head on the whole population. That was not the whole expense of the poor-rate, as it was only or out-dor relief. A few weeks after, on the 25th of March, the guardians reported as destitute no fewer a number claim • ing out-door relief than 30,413. Now it was impossible to allow such a state of things as that to continue—or for her Majesty's Government to rest satisfied with their past policy as suf f icient to remedy it. The only remedial measure yet received from the House of Commons, after a sitting of seven months, was the Evicted Tenants Bill, which their Lordships considered on the previous even ing. He quite agreed with his Noble Friend opposite, who said last session that much might be done for Ire land by the employment of the people in the construc tion of railways. But in saying that, he did not confine himself to railways. He was for giving employment to the people in all other national objects and works which it could come within the province of a Government to undertake. It was no fair reason to say that they should be left to private enterprise in Ireland, because they were so in England, seeing that England was the only country in Europe where such was the case. It might be said that when those works would be completed the people would be in the same position as now, and that it would then become necessary to construct other works. His reply to that objection was, that every new work would be the prolific source of others. It was not the mere construction of a railway from Dublin to Galway that he looked to so much as the building of stores and the making of roilik, and those other works conse quen t u p on t h e first, ILhich would yield employment and excite to industry. He would also recommend a large scheme of emigration as a remedy for the present deplorable condition of Ireland. But, whether the Government concurred or not in his suggestions, he must again press upon them the necessity of doing something to ameliorate the condition of that country, unless they were prepared to see in it disorganization of society. They must not, however, attempt to govern it without the aid of the gentry. It would not be for the good either of the middle or lower classes to destroy the gentry of Ireland ; for if they did so the gentry of Eng land would soon follow. The Government seemed to think that the poor-law had provided for the comfort of the lower classes; but it had done no such thing. The people of Ireland had suffered more silica the passing of that Act than before, owing, in his opinion, to its effect on the feelings of the people. Previous to its introduc tion every men was accustomed to assist his neighbour. Indeed, the peasantry in Ireland entertained sentiments upon that subject of which the English people had no conception. It was prophesied at the time that its ine vitable consequence would be to destroy those feelings, and that prophecy had been fulfilled; fur now, instead of an anxiety to assist each other, the answer was, where charity was demanded, " go to the relieving officer." It was deeply implanted in the English mind that every thing English must be good, even for other countries. But, however gratified the English people may be in forming that opinion as regarded themselves, most certainly they had passed a poor-law for Ireland which was utterly at variance with both the feelings and condition of that country, and had proved wholly ineffectual for attaining the objects with which it was enacted ; the British Parliament having been obliged to vote large SUMS of money from the public purse to keep the Irish people from starvation. It was because he saw no hope for Ireland in the measures now before Parlia ment, or in anything that had been promised by Govern ment, that he had ventured to bring this subject forward, and to ask the Noble Marquis whether Government had any measures for the permanent improvement of Ireland in contemplation? The Noble Lord concluded by mov ing the following resolutions :—" That is incumbent upon this House to express the approbation with which it has viewed the wisdom, energy, and prudence, with which the Executive Government of Ireland has been conducted during the recent period of diffi cu l ty . Th at it is equally the duty of this House to express the deep sorrow with which it continues to view the prolonged distresses of many classes of the Irish people, and the regret which it feels that the measures passed in the concluding session of the late Parliament for the im provement of Ireland have not hitherto been productive of the benefits which were anticipated from their enact a3ant. To express the decided opinion of this House, tohatt further legislative measures are req u i re d f or reme d y he evils under which Ireland labours, for the develop tu,ent of its natural resources , and for the • improvement OK its o f 1 u tare and commerce." The Itarquis of LANSDOWNE felt it his duty to oppose the motion, though in " to the difficulty of , h,. doing so he was fully alive the ground of inc„,;:iPosition, in having to object (on favour of his Noble R i r i t e e nprecedent) to a testimony in the Lord-Lie u t enan t o f Ire land, which the cond uct of that Noble Friend, during very trying and difficult times, entitled him to.—(liear.) His Noble Friend (Earl Eit zw il l i a late measures passed for the imn:) complained that th e had not been productive of the 1 1;: eu is e v n em ts ent of Ireland ex pected. Ihe first of those measures to which he would allude was that by which, to a certain extent, order and peace had been established. It would not be denied that t he greatest depended on the ind i • • hope for Ireland victual industry and the enterprise of her people ; and enterprise and in dustry were always more successful when pro eeedin . from spontaneous feelings of the people , than whe n e ase ' tered and maintained by artificial means, and by the in terference of the Legislature. It would be obvious then that the best course for the Government or for Parlia ment to take was to place the poor and industrious peo ple of Ireland iu that position of security and safety i n which the fruits of their industry might be assured to them, and to secure this proprietor in the possession of his property. In this respect he was bound to contend that the measure of which he had spoken as administerd by his Noble Friend the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland had been most decidedly successful. He could refer to offi cial statements showing the improved condition of Ire land in the great diminution of crime ,',since that mea sure had come into operation; and not merely of Ire land generally but of those districts in particular in which crime had previously prevailed to the greatest ex-- tent, as in the counties of Clare, Limerick, Galway, and Tipperary, but where now: comparative security reigned. This improvement was evidenced not only in the decrease of prosecutions, but in the altered habits of the people, and the better cultivation of the land.—(Hear, hear.) The number of outrages for the whole of Ireland had diminished from 2,16'2 in December last year to 1,182 in the last month of the present year—a diminution of about one-half; and in the higher class of outrages he was happy to say the falling off was in a still greater proportion.—(Hear, hear) So far, then, as giving security to industry and property, and the results of such security, the measures of the Government had not been wholly un productive of good. Again, when his Noble Friend said that nothing had been done to improve the con dition of Ireland, he forgot the advantage which had already resulted from the exertions of those persons who had been employed in going round the country lecturing on the science of agriculture. The teaching ROUSE OF LORDS, June 23. , Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions against the Scotch Registration Bill, which were or dered to be referred to the Select Committee on those Bills. The Bishop of NORWICH presented several petitions to favour of the Health of Towns Bill. _ _ ale Bishop of LONlioli - P;;;;d some petitions with a similar prayer. Lord BROUGHAM complained of the exemption of London from the provisions of the Bill. Lord CAMPBELL defended the Government 'mea sure. LAW REFORM. The NOBLR LORD then moved the second reading of the Administration of Justice Bill.—Agreed to. The Bill was then read a second time. CASE OF VISCOUNT ARBUTHNOT. The LORD CHANCELLOR informed the House that two bills had been found against Viscount Ar buthnot, a Scotch Peer, for forgery, and had been re turned to the House; and, in conformity with precedent, he moved for the appointment of a Committee to whom the papers should be referred, and also that the Black Rod be directed to take Viscount Arbuthnot into cus tod v.—Agreed to. The NOBLE AND LEARNED LORD then moved that the Committee should consist of all the Peers who had at tended Parliament this session, of whom five should be a quorum ; and he also moved that the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas should be ordered to attend the Committee.—Agreed to. JOINT STOCK COMPANIES BIIL. Earl GRANVILLE moved the second reading of the Joint Stock Companies Bill. If their Lordships would consent to the second reading he should not propose that the Bill should be committed before Monday, July 3. The Bill was read a second time. EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL. Lord REDESDALE brought up the report on this Bill. The Noble Lord said, in order to prevent the irregularity which took place last night, he should on Monday move standing orders to the effect that when a Bill was com mitted or re-committed in the absence of the Noble Lord the Chairman of Committees, that the House should re sume. The Noble Lord concluded by moving that the amendment, as made last night, he adopted. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said, that on the third reading he should move that the amendments adopted last night be rejected. Lord MONTEAGLE defended the amendments, as calculated to afford greater relief. The Earl of MALMESBURY said that the third reading of the Bill should not take place on Monday if the Noble Marquis (Clanricarde) wished to have a full attendance of Peers. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought, as the amendments which had been introduced would be likely to lead to serious consequences, that an opportunity should be given fist.a re-eoasidei ation of the amendments adopted last night, but as the measure had long been before their Lordships, he did not consider that it would be necessary to postpone the third reading of the Bill beyond Monday. The report was then received, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday. THE POLES AT POSEN. Lord KINNAIRD, pursuant to notice, rose to put the following question, namely, ''Whether a copy of the con ventien, signed by the Prussian Royal Commissary, Gen. Willisen, at Jar os t awe i e, w i th t h e Poles, on the 11th of April,and proclamations by the same general subsequent to that period, had been communicated to the Government by her Majesty's Minister at Berlin; and if so, whether the Government would object to lay such papers on the table?" His object was to have the best means of con tradicting statements imputing acts of great cruelty to those utrfertunate people, the Poles, who had been seri ously injured in the estimation of their friends by the cixeulation of such reports, first through the medium of the English, and afterwards by the German, press. The snocesstul insurrection at Berlin naturally excited sym pathetic feelings in the Duchy of Posen, and a portion of the population sent a deputation to Berlin, claiming simi lar privileges, but they did not wish to throve off the Prus sian yoke. When they arrived they found that the Polish state prisoners had been released, and they were perfectly satisfied. The King granted the claims urged by the de putation, but the German authorities intrigued in Berlin to prevent the proposed freedom. The Prussian soldiers expelled from Berlin went to Posen, and committed many atrocities on the Poles. General Willisen was then sent by the King to Posen, and found the Prussian soldiers about to attack the Poles, martial law having been declared. The King, however, apprehended an attack from Russia on Posen, and looked to the Germans and Poles combined there as his main defence. A con vention was signed, under which the Poles laid down their arms; nevertheless as a body of them were passing through a village they were fired upon by the Germans. It had been said that the Poles had committed the greatest atrocities on the Jews; but the fact was that only five Jews in all had been executed, and they had been found with arms in their hands attacking the Germans. The greatest cruelties had been committed on the Poles; in fact they had called down the strongest animadversions of the Prussian authorities. All the details would be found in the papers for which he was about to move; and it was necessary to have this matter cleared up, because a ; rest deal of the tr u th, w i t h reference to the P o les, had been suppressed by the Ger man papers. A lady, a proprietor of large estates in Posen, had written to the German papers, contradicting the statements with reference to the alleged misconduct of the Poles, in consequence of which she had been sub jected by the Germans in Posen to the utmost indig nity and persecution. General Willisen and the Arch bishop of Posen had also given their testimony in favour of the conduct of the Poles ; and there was no doubt about their being grossly misrepresented. The Noble Lord concluded by putting the question of which he had given notice. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE sympathised with the motion of the Noble Lord, yet he deprecated inter ference in matters of foreign policy with which this country had nothing to do. He thought he was there fore jastiCed, in consequence of the extreme inconve nience which might result from its being supposed that the Parliament of this country had taken cognizance of such proceedings, in refusing to accede to the motion of the Noble Lord. The Eirl of FIARROWBY was very glad that the motion had been made, because it gave him an oppor tunity of stating his cordial concurrence in the senti meets of the Noble Lord who had brought the subject before their Lordships. Lord BEAUMONT said the man was profoundly ignorant of what was passing in Europe who did not perceive the possibility of the events now taking place in Poland leading to a general Euronean war. This coun try had already done much harm by refraining to express its opinion on such events. Had it done so before the lawless invasion of Denmark, that dangerous aggres sion would not now have had to be terminated by protracted negotiations. As the matter stood, it might even disturb our aelations with the Baltic. The matter before the House touched the interests of England as much as any alteration of the balance of power could do. Many communications from Posen, from Germans as well as Poles, had led him to retract the opinion he had at first formed that the inhabitants of Posen had fallen into errors and perhaps crimes ; he was now convinced that they could not justly be stigmatised as they had been by himself on a former occasion ; and ho rejoiced in this opportunity of stating that the painful impression he had at first entertained was removed. Still he thought the Posen Committee of Safety had fallen into erro r in attempting to remove all the Government employee, inasmuch as the German population had a right to have their sentiments consulted as well as the p o l e& The Archbishop of Posen had been blameable in making this a sectarian movement. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, on the point of order, suggested that long speeches ought not to be made on a mere question, which was only permitt e d for the sake of avoiding the necessity of a motion. Nothing was more inconvenient than to touch incidentally and irre gularly on the convulsions now agitating Europe from one end to the other, and on the eff,:ct they were likely to have on our relations with those states. The reason was that the opinion of the House was apt to be misre presented; for, if a mo ti on were submitted, Nob l e Lords who were acquainted with the subject would then come fully prepared to discuss it. Lord BEAUMONT proceeded to speak in explana tion, whereupon Earl FITZ WILLIAM rose to order, and the discus sion terminated. STATE OF IRELAND. The NOBLB EARL then rose to bring forward the resolutions of which he had given notice, on the state of Ireland. It was now seven months since Parliament assembled, and what had been done? Was the condition of Ireland such as to satisfy the Hous? At the meeting of Parliament, Government invited them, the whole of Ireland called on them, to legislate for the suppression of the crimes there prevailing. Without the least doubt or delay Parliament assented to the measures proposed, and were prepared even to strengthen the hands of Go vernment with still more powerful measures. But the Government exercised a wise discretion, and the result had proved that they had made no immoderate de mand on Parliament. The law thus passed had been administered with the greatest discretion, and the most untiring zeal and energ y ; an d to the Executive of Ireland, next to the Government, was the country indebted for the success of that measure. It would ill become either House of Parliament to separate without expressing this opinion so generally enter tall'ed. The Gover nmen t h a d performed a gr " at and difficult task with signal success; and the Irish Execu tive had had the rare felicity of enlisting in its aid the almost unanimous feeling of the people. Formerly that feeling had been against the law; but on the late occa sien there had been no difficulty in inducing witnesses to (tome forward, and -other parties to take the necessare atop; for securin,g the ex_cution of the law. But, he w ee ld esls, what further hail been d one ? • Di d the House suppose the condition of Ireland was such as to require BO further legislation? Th ey had passed laws ler the prevetstiop of crime; but what had they done to benefit the condition of the people, and strengthen their attach ment to the cause of peace and order? In framing such measures it was necessary to have a duo regard to all classes and conditions of the Irish people. On a subject like this he could not refrain referring to the course of legislation in past years. In the last session five important measures had been promised, a new pea s _ law; - cne for making a loan of a million and a half . to landed proprietors, one for improving waste .614 and others for facilitating the sal e - of encumbered estates ; of these, only the two first had been passed into law. The sum of a million s and half was no grea t amount f or t h e purpose i n v i ew; Ind how had it operated ? Already, of the million luictihalf, the Commi ss i oners h a d sanct i one d t h e a d vance of upwards of 1,400,001.; but this did little unless the m ousy was actually advanced, and paid away as wages, . of those persons had been most successful, and in many instances, even in the short space of time that had elapsed since the commencement of their labours, a marked improvement in the cultivation of the land had taken place. Such were the improvements to which he looked forward for permanent benefit to the country — the more so, as they rested on individual exertion, and were not forced by Parliamentary interference. His Noble Friend had spoken of the small sum issued under the Land Improvement Act. Why, the amount of ad vances which had been sanctioned under that Act (deduct ing the application which had been withdrawn)was no less than 1,388,000/. There was every inclination to make the advances as fast as possible, and from what had been already done under that Act the best results in the l e a m n poym d l had e fo nf lo o w f e t d h . e p H eo e p i l o e ok rt e n the d d forwa im rd pr t o o v g e r m ea e t nt of the benefits resulting to Ireland from the Bill for facilitating th e sale of encumbered estates, which he had every hope would pass the other House before the close of the ses sion, as a means of introducing British capital in the improvement of estates which were now, for want of capital, uncultivated. With regard to the poor-law— though he had never looked upon it as a panacea for all the evils of Ireland, nor had it ever been put forward as such by those who proposed it—he must say, after the experience they had had of its working, notwithstanding the abuses and inequality which had attended its opera tion, that he knew of no other means by which the great object could have been accomplished, of saving to a great extent (though unhappily not entirely) a large portion:of the population from positive destruction.—(Hear, hear.) He admitted the great benefit that had resulted from the efforts of the BritishAseociation and the Relief Commit tees, but these had only followed in the wake of the pour law; and but for the system which that law had estab lished, the exertions of those institutions would have been to a great extent unsuccessful. The fishing stations which had been established andiwere in course of forma lien also promised to be of great service in giving pro fitable and permanent employment to the people. Look ing then at all that had been dune, he contended that there was every disposition, not only on the part of the Government but of both Houses of Parliament, to con sider the wants of Ireland, and do all that was possible for the relief of that country. With regard to further advances from the consolidated fund for relief works, to advances for emigration, or in aid of railways, it was the tendency of every people, and of the Irish perhaps more especially, to neglect to do that for themselves which they thought Government would do for them. He was therefore disposed, as a general rule, rather to leave such matters to individual exertion than to make them depend on Government interference. As to the Irish Church, he admitted f u!ly the importance of that subject, and his opinion upon it remained unchanged; but he was not prepared, on the part of the Government, to say that any measure was in contemplation. The Noble Marquis concluded by moving the previous ques tion. The Earl of G LENGALL was surprised that during nearly four hours' discussion on the state of Ireland, not one syllable had been said with regard to the main point —which was the system of agitation now going on in that country. It was absurd to suppose that the country could improve or prosper while a system Of agitation was allowed to exist which was far beyond any agitation which had taken place during O'Connell's time. Agi tation had gone on so long in Ireland that the people began to consider it a legal proceeding, and expected some great event to arise out of it. There was no class of the community which was not deeply affected by the system, with which neither landlord nor farmer dared to interfere, under pain of falling under the force of that sanguinary code which had met with such general adoption. It was necessary that the mast decided steps should be taken to put an end to the agita tion, for which purpose he recommended the mea sures pursued by Lord Grey, who had contrived to put it down for two years. Tho system of intimi dation operated Most prejudicially upon the trader, who, in many cases, if he did not supply funds to support agitation, had his shop tabooed, and the same causes rendered it a matter of extreme difficulty to obtain evi dence, or to induce a proper system of registration. The present agitation also had its effect upon capital, many persons in Ireland having sums varying from 2,0001. to 5,0001, and being unable to employ them. He consi. dered that an extension of the railway system would be a measure calculated to benefit the country, and urged the Government to take it into their consid e r a ti on . He hoped while we were at peace with ail the world that something would be done to stop the agitation, in order that Ireland, instead of being a dead weight, might be a tower of strength for this country. The LORD CHANCELLOR then read the resolu tions, and put the previous question, which was agreed to without a division. Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter• past Ten. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 23. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. ABERAVON MARKET BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. CALEDONIAN RAILWAY (BRANCH ACROSS THE CLYDE, AND GLASGOW STATION). On the motion that this Bill be read a third time, Mr. WARD said he could not allow the third read ing to pass without taking notice of the most unjustifi able attacks which had been made upon the Board of Admiralty on a former occasion, by the Ho nourable Member for Montrose. Never had a case, he said, been more impartially and labouriously considered by his Noble Friend (Lord Auckland) and the other members of the Board, and he only regretted that the Hon. Member had not given notice that it was his intention to make the observations to which he al luded, in order that he might have had an opportunity of replying. The facts of the case were simply these— three years ago a proposition was made to cross the Clyde with a bridge of seven arches, which was opposed by the trustees of the river, the bridge trustees, and indeed by all parties in Glasgow, and it had, therefore, received the decided opposition of the Admiralty. During the present year, however, every one of the circumstances had been changed. The com pany now proposed to carry the railway across the river . in a tunnel, resting upo n a s i ng l e p i er i n t h e m id d l e o f the stream. or in such other manner as the Board of Admiralty might direct. The only question now left in doubt was whether there should be one arch or two arches, but he begged to say that the company could not proceed with the works without the consent of the board. The company had consented to contri bute a fund of 12,000/. fer the privilege thus granted to them, which sum was to be paid over to the Paymaster 01. the Navy, and to be applied by the trustees for deepening and improving that part of the river. Those were the facts of the case, and he did not think a more simple or straightforward explanation could be given. ' The Bill was then read a third time and passed., STANDING ORDERS. On the motion of Mr. HEATHCOTE, a Select Com mittee was appointed for the revision of the standing orders, consisting of the following Hon. Members:—Sir William Heathcote, Mr. Ord, Mr. Bernal, Mr. Greene, Sir Robert Ferguson, Mr. Wilson Patt en , Si r J o h n Yarde Buller, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. Elliott, Captain Jones, Mr. Wrightson, Mr. Home Drummond, Mr. Loch, Mr. Sotheron, and Mr. Evelyn Denison. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed:— Edinburgh and Bathgate Railway (Extension and Devi ation). Truro Turnpike-roads. Whitehaven and Furness Junction Railway (Extension or Deviation Line from Silecroft to Foxfield, &c). HAMLYN'S ESTATE BILL. The report upon this Bill was considered and agreed to. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Bilston, praying for an extension of the suffrage, vote by ballot, triennial Parliaments, and equal electoral districts. Mr. LUSHINGTOI'4' presented a similar petition. Dr. BO WRING presented fifty petitions from Man chester, forty from Bolton, and a number of petitions front the metropolis, from Glasgow, Stockport, and other places, to the same effect. Mr. KEOGH presented a petition also in favour of Parliamentary reform. Captain PECHELL presented several petitions from Brighton containing a similar prayer, and also ten peti tions from the same place, praying the House to consider the propriety of a measure embodying the principles contained in the document called the People's Charter. Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from Glou cester complaining of intimidation and of general treating at the last election, and praying the House to give the electors the protection of the ballot; also a petition from Bristol in favour of Parliamentary reform. Sir W. MOLESWORTII presented similar petitions from London and Bristol. Colonel THOMPSON presented fifty petitions from Manchester and its neighbourhood in favour of Parlia mentary reform. Sir G. STRICKLAND presented petitions to the same effect from Preston, and in favour of a reduction of the puolic expenditure. Sir 13. HALL presented two similar petitions from Marylebone. also one from the guardians of the poor, praying the House to facilitate the emigration of able bodied paupers. Mr. GRENFELL presented thirty petitions from Preston in favour of Parliamentary reform. Mr. G. BERKELEY presented petitions from Bristol r the eldest el otherdest judges places s s to ho t u h l e d same effect. • WARD presented a petition from Sheffield for athe ballot, arter t t h r e ie y n h n a ia d l p P as a s r eh li da a v m teh e rt nts, and vote by ballot ; _I Bills after so tisk which petition no nominally i r a o a m l yan devolved mucli,aforrliaomneenpterson, and that they should ri:om h iwn a evn v ne e :s' s twi e ng a a:s t tt s hitno i 3 :: ) th ; also a petition, complaining of the in(Milmr.PlUolitEhe pßraenskenoted fEl g petitions alf. from diff-Tent parts of the country in favour of the reforms which he proposedhail ,uA r ap the presented Mr. a petition from Newark, against the sale of int ox i cating liquors_ on Sand Lys, Mr. MILES presented a petition from Bristol against the navigati , n-laws. Mr. FORBES presented a petition from a place in Scotland, against the Lunatic Asylums Bill. - Mr. BERNAL presented a petition from Rochester in favour of household suffrage, vote by ballot, and the di vision of the kingdom into electoral districts. Mr. NEWDEGATE presented a petition from 200 persons connected with the Lyceum Theatre, praying that ' the number of theatres in which foreigners should be allowed to perform should be limited to two. Mr. HERMES presented a petition from the General Committee of Shipowners against the repeal of the navi gation-laws. Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from Hereford, signed by 2,945 persons, in favour of reform. Sir GEORGE GREY presented a petition against the sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays. SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. BRIGHT gate notice that in the event of the amendment of the Zion. Member for Droitwich being re jected by the Efolie, he should take the first opportunity of moving that it was not expedient at present to make any alteration in the Sugar Duties Act of 1846. POLICE MAGISTRATES. In answer to a qa,aion from Alt. FORSTER, S:r GEORGE tiREY stated that the police magis trates in sending some of the Chartist rioters to trial did so upon their own responsibility and not through any instruction that was forwarded from the Home-office. In his opinion they /displayed a sound discretion in sending them to trial. MISAPPROPRIATION OF PUBLIC MONEY IN IRELAND. On the motion that the House, at its rising, do ad journ till Monday, Sir B. HALL rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of the House to an instance of a misappro priation of public money under the Land Improvement Ireland Bill. Those who were Members in the last Par liament would remember that in addition to the large sums of money advanced for relieving Ireland an Act was passed authorising a loan of 1,500,0001. to the landed proprietors in Ireland. Under this Act 5001. was advanced last autumn to Mr. O'Neil, a landed proprietor in the county of Galway, upon the understanding that it was to be expended in the improvement of his property, so as to afford employment in the ensuing winter to the poor of the neighbourhood, but instead of doing that he applied the money to liquidating a bill which had become overdue at his bankers. Upon the Commis sioners threatening to take proceedings against him, Mr. O'Neil, with a degree of extraordinary modest assurance, asked for a second loan in order that he might give his starving tenantry employment. That was the case so far as it regarded Mr. O'Neil. He wished to know, therefore, whether any legal pro ceedings had bean instituted against Mr. O'Neil to recover the money which had been advanced to him to carry on the works in pursuance of the Act? lie wished also to call the attention of the House to the case of Lord De Freyne, to whom 70,000/. had been advanced by the Government for the purpose of carrying on certain public works on his estates in the county of Roscommon. There was a clause in the Act called the Duke of Wellington's clause, which pro vided that all money advanced under it should be paid by-the borrower in wages, and in the current coin of the realm, but Lord De Freyne, instead of acting up to the spirit or intention of the Act, had only paid ten per cent. to the labourers he employed, whi c h h e did i n f meal, and the re main i ng n i nety per cent. s upon his ag e nt, w h o , h owever , did not hsuepppaliidesiti cheque o cash them, but placed the amount to the liquidation of the arrears they owed for rent. When the fact was communicated to the Board of Works, they came to a resolution net to advance any more money, upon which an intimation was sent by the brother of the Noble Lord (Mr. Fitzstephen French, the Member for Roscommon), that if the Government interfered between the employer and the employed, his brother would dismiss the whole of the labourers, and abandon the unexpended part of the loan. Lord De Freyne had carried out that intention, and the la bourers ' were now in a most wretched state in consequence of not being paid the wages which they expected they would have received under the Act. He thought he had stated enough to show that the clauses of the Bill had not been carried out, and that in stead of the money advanced out of the Imperial Trea sury having been paid in the coin of the realm, as pro- Tided by the Act, that it had been paid in this way-10 per cent. in meal, and 90 per cent. in cheques on the agent of the Noble Lord, who placed the amount to the credit of the tenants who were considerably in arrear with their rents. Thus Lord De Freyne was enabled to get his land improved and his arrears of rent paid up. He wished to know ir, after what had taken place, the Go vernment intended to continue the advances to that Noble Lord. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who was very indistinctly heard, was understood to say, with respect to the case of Mr. O'Neil. that the Houourable Baronet had fallen into a mistake. It ap peared that the works in question were suspended owing to the state of the weather, but that they would be immediately proceeded with. The Government did not interfere with the works undertriken by landlords on their own property, except to ascertain that the money voted was expended for the avowed purpose for which it was asked; but, as the Hon. Gentleman ha not given him notice of his question, and as it required reference to Ireland, he was unable to give as satisfac tory a reply as he otherwise should. Second advances were not made unless the parties to whom they were made could show that they had property ex pended the first. The Hon. Gentleman the Member fir Roscommon (Mr. F. French), was better acquainted with the matter than he could pretend to be, and, perhaps he would explain that matter to the House. Mr. F. FRENCH wished to state, on behalf of the Noble Lord with whom he was so intimately connected, that the departures from the Acts were committed en tirely without his knowledge or sanction, and that as soon as he found what had taken place he wrote over to his agent to strictly comply with the provisions of the Acts. Every order of the Commissioners had been obeyed, and every payment that had been made since the issuing of the circular had been made in cash. DUTY ON RUM. In answer to a question from Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN, The CHANCELLOR of the EXeIHEQUER excused himself for not answering yesterday the Hon. Gentle man's question in reference to the duty on rum, by stat ing • that he was anxious to consult his colleagues upon the subject before giving a final answer. It was the opinion of the Chairman of the Excise that a differential duty of 4d. upon rum would afford ample protection to the Irish distiller, and Government had therefore deter mined to persevere in their original proposition of re ducing the duty from 6d. to 4d. AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. Mr. URQUHART wished to ask the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a question in re ference to the affairs of Spain: It would be remem• bered that at the time he moved for a return of the amount of arms and ammunition supplied Spain, upon Spain, i n re f erence to the Noble L or d state d thatby thisthis country yy hadto claims those supplies which were unsatisfied. N,:ev, the return which he now held in his hand represented that all the claims were satisfied, and the question he wished to ask the Noble Lord was, whether the return was correct in that respect or not? Lord PALMERSTON said he would answer the question on Monday. Mr. URQUHART asked if the Noble Lord could state how it was that the return was not signed ? Lord PALMERSTON said he would answer that question also on Monday, Mr. OSBORNE gave notice that on Monday he would put a question to the Noble Lord respecting the Spanish correspondence, and the position of this country in re ference to the Quadruple Treaty. The motion sor the adjournment of the House was then arced to. SUSPENDED WRITS.---BOROUGH OF DERBY. Sir J. FAKING - 1 ON moved that Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a new writ for electing two burgesses to serve in this present Parliament for the borough of Derby, in the room of the Right Honourable Edward Strutt and the Honourable Edward Frederick Leveson Gow, r, whose election:has been determined to be void. The Hon. Member stated that it was most tmfair to sus pend the writ fir Derby, which contained between 30,000 and 40,000 inhabitants, when writs had been issued for Cheltenham and Horsham. where similar practices to those complained of at Derby had been carried on. _ Mr. HUME said t was the intention of Hon. Mem bers to bring the proceedings. of the House into ridicule and contempt, such a course as that taken by the Honourable Mover was calculated to. do 30. — (Hear, hear.) In cases of bribery in boroughs the House had lately taken a most inconsistent course, having one day refused to issue a writ, and another day con sented to issue one. He wished the House to feel that it was time to put an end to this corruption; and notwith standing the act of the House last night he hoped they would not, upon this occasion, sanction the issuing of the writ to anutocr corrupt borough. Why he was told of one town where there were nut fifty of the consti tuency free from corruption!—(Cries of " Name.") St. Alban's was Vie town he ineant.—(Laughter.) If they issued this writ they would give a sanction to acts of corruption. Sir J. TYRRELL, as an old Member, wished to ad dress a word or two to the Hon. Member for Montrose. Before the paving of the Reform Bill he remembered that the Honourable Member for Montrose every night drew a long bill upon futurity in the shape of prognosti cations as to what purity they should have throughout the country if the Reform Bill passed inte a law. The Honourable Member occupied much of the public attention, and much more of the time of that House, with that sort of statement. He had continued ever since to give moral lectures to the House upon all sorts of questions, and upon none so much as upon questions of public expenditure. There was the Hon. Member for Bolton had got a place for his son, almost a sinecure place, of 5001. a year upon one of those useless commis sions which the Hon. Member made such a fuss about on all other occasions. And there were other Hon. Gentlemen of the Hon. Member's clique who had in like manner got places for relatives, as the return he had moved for would show. Mr. ELLICE begged to protest most emphatically against these personalities.—(Hear, hear.) As to the commission upon which the valuable services of the son of the Hon. Member for Bolton had been secured, it was one instituted to conduct a scientific inquiry of a most important character, and which could not be ade quately conducted by a Committee of the Thuile. There .'as no department of the public service which more than the Mint required the scientific investigation now about to be applie , i to it.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. P. BENNET, 113 a member of the Derby Com mittee, begged to remind the House that the Committee had brought bribery home in the clearest manner to the ten cases, which, out of the 166 cases of bribery al leged, had alone been gone into, the parties at that stage of the inquiry declining to prosecute further. There was, however, such strong suspicion attaching to the re maining 156 cases, that the Committee had made that report, recommending further inquiry, of which the House was aware. Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Hon. Baronet the Member for Essex, had charged the Government with creating a useless commission, and with having been guilty of what was called a job, in appointing the son of the Hon. Member for Bolton its secretary. Now, with reference to tho commission, as his Right Hon. Friend had just observed, there was especial need for close and scientific inquiry into the whole, system and management of the Mint, and this inquiry could only be conducted by scientific and highly intelligent persons, applying their whole attention to the subject in a way which could scarcely be expected from an ordinary Montrose, Conamitte he Committee stairs. As to the Hon. Member for differed from that lion. Gentleman on many points, he had acted against him in that House , The SPEAKER called the lion. Baronet to older. cpiite as f requent ly as with him, but tide ho would say of Sir J. PAKINGTON-1 he Hon. Member was aware the Hon. G en tl ema n, that no man ever sat in that House that the figures which he had given as the net cost pro who had brought to the public service a purer or more duction of sugar in the three slave colonies named wa 7 entire di s i n t er e s tedness—(Chee rs from both sides of the the result after the value of the rum and molasses, ano House)—and this he would sae further, that had the the interest of money with seine other inevitable charge. Hon. M em ber' s o bj e ct, on the contrary, been a sordid and had heel deducted. The lion. Member had omitted to personal one, and had he devoted to that sinister purpose take the-c items into his estimate. There was also e one tithe of the indefatignsde industry, the fearless dedu c tion 10,ide by him (Sir J. Pakinsten) of Is. 5 , 1. to. energy, the powerful ability, that he had devoted to the the superior value of cies ed sugars above Muscovadoe service of the people, he could long since have secured the sugars from Cuba an.l Brazils being all clayed. The that object, as many men, of infinitely less claim, had smile authorities hal fueliished both himself and tee , secured it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member, how- lion. Member for ‘Vesfbury, with the dare which the) ever, had acted upon other and far different principles, had respectively offered to the Hou3e, the only difference and he had his great reward in the respect and esteem of heine in the deductions which he had made. The Ho n . all parties, alike within and without that House. Baronet then referred to the West India Committee Mr. HUDSON concurred in the expression of respect Blue-book, and cited the cost of sugar at Porto Rice, paid to the Hon. Member for Montrose, but thought it as stated by the Consul there, in exemplifieetion of Ins would be better if Members of the Legislature were to mode of estimating the relative cost of production. Th( avoid any share in Government patronage. Consul stated the gross cost to be 16s. sd. per cwt.; Mr. C. ANSTEY said that the reason why the House from this he had deducted 4s. 6d. for interest of money, had rescinded its resolution respecting Horsham was the See., ls. for molasses, which left 10s. 11d., and frem this conduct pursued by the Government with respect to he deducted Is. 51. as the difference between the value Cheltenham. of clayed and Muscovadoes. The mean cost of all the Mr. MUNTZ would suggest to the Hon. Baronet op- slave colonies sugars was, therefore, according to his posite that had the Reform Bill been passed in the shape mode of estimating the net value, 6s. 101 d., as he had originally proposed by Earl Grey, there might very pro- before stated. It was he, therefore, who had made the bably have been no cry since for further Parliamentary correct statement, and that offered by the Hon. Member reform.—(Hear, hear.) He should support the issue of was quite erroneous. the writ, since Government seemed disposed to take no Mr. WILSON said that he was informed, and he be steps for prosecuting the inquiry recommended by the lieved correctly, that in the preparation of clayed sugars Committee. neither rum nor molasses were produced. At the same Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Government had as- time he must admit that if the Hon. Baronet had accom• sisted the Hon. Member for the Flint boroughs with partied his figures with the explanation which he had the legal co-operation of the Solicitor-General and of now given he should not have said what; he did. the Judge-Advocate, and he himself had done all he Sir J. PAKINGTON said that he did make the ex could in the way of giving the Hon. Member opportimi- planation at the time, but his remarks were not reported. ties for proceeding with his Bill. There had been so Mr. WILSON was quite satisfied on that point. With much opposition to it, however, on the other side of the respect to the difference in value between clayed and House, at every stage, that much delay had been occa- Muscovado sugars, that was taken into account in the sioned, and there seemed the probability of much further differential estimate of cost. He repeated, had he seen delay before an inquiry into the alleged bribery in the the statement of the Hun. Borenet in print, he should borough of Derby could take place. In fact, if the House not have reviewed his figures. did not issue the writ until:after inquiry, there was every Mr. P. MILES said that the Honourable Member probability, considering -the state of public business and ought to have exercised more caution before he ventured the period of the session, that the writ would not issue to tax the Honourable) Baronet with error. He was at all until next session. Under these circumstances, disposed to go further than the Right Hon. Gentleman he thought it would be unfair to withhold the writ any who stated last night (Mr. W. Gladstone), that the West longer, bearing in mind, as he did, that the issue of Indians ought to have some relief given to them, be the writ now would in no way preclude that inquiry cause they had had none since the emancipation was into the alleged bribery which the Committee had re- granted. He (Mr. P. Miles) thought that when the commended. slave labour was taken away and the produce thereby Mr. THORNELY called upon the House to sustain reduced one-half, some means ought to have been the decisions of its Committees. The conduct of the afforded the planters of controlling the freed negroes Election Committees in this, the first Parliament after and of obtaining other labourers. Some protection was the statute creating them as now constituted, had by its undeniably due to the West Indies, in order to enable impartial and straightforward honesty given general them to compete with the foreign slave coloni es . If th a t satisfaction to the country ; b u t if C omm itt ees f oun d was nut done they must abandon the West Indian that their decisions were not sustained by the House, Islands. In fact, orders were going out every day from they would be discouraged from an adherence to that merchants and West India proprietors here to cease cul• course which they had hitherto pursued. It appeared to tivating their estates. He could read some of these him that the issuing of writs in this way to boroughs letters to the House; and, indeed, he knew that upwards formerly convicted of much bribery and grievously sus- of one hundred estates had been abandoned, owing to the petted of still more, would be holding out a premium to inadequate price of sugar as compared with the cost of corruption.—(Hear, hear.) producing it. The immediate consequence would be, Sir R. PEEL adhered to the opinion he had formerly that the West Indies would cease to produce sugars, and expressed, that the Government ought to have lost no the machinery now there would be transferred to Cuba, time in taking some step or other for prosecuting those from which place the supply would thenceforth come. inquiries which the Select Committee s had specially re- The Hon. Member for Westbury had read a statement ported to be essential to the purposes of justice.—(Hear, respecting the wages of free labourers in the West In hear.) Had the Governmeut itself brought forward a dies. In Guiana they had been reduced only 5 per measure for this object, one night's, discussion, cent.; in Trinidad, he admitted, the reduction was one or less, iwould have effected the purpose, and have half ; and in other islands (save Jamaica) the reduction saved the House many hours, many evenings he was 25 per cent. But what was the amount of wages might say, that had since b e e n l o st in desultory debates in the island of Trinidad? Why, for a day of four or on the subject.—(H e ar, h ea r.) It really appeared to five hours only, the free labourers get Is. 31—(Hear, him very manifest that, under the peculiar circum- hear.) What made the matter worse was that at this stances of the case, with the demand for inquiry from moment the West Indian worked with a certainty of so many quarters, the demand for further changes in further reduction in the price of this commodity. It the franchise, the demand f or an extension of the Act had been said that the present distress was not so much of 1832—it really appeared to him that no time should attributable to the Bill of 1846 as to the commercial have been lost in prosecuting an inquiry into the cases distress prevailing generally over the world. He dit where corruption was charged.—(bear, hear.) Here, fered from that opinion, seeing that the distress had in this borough of Derby, in the only ten cases of arisen in the face of an increased consumption to the alleged bribery proceeded with, out of 166 indictments, amount of thirty thousand tons annually, and also all had been clearly b roug ht hom e to th e parties, and because it was immediately co-existent with the in the Committee reported that they had strong grounds troduction of slave-grown sugar into this country. for the belief that had the inquiry gone on the same (Hear, hear.) He had said that the result result would have taken place in the other eases. That of the present state of things would be the general aban. inquiry did not go on, simply because the parties, seeing donment of estates. He would now explain his meaning. this result, thought it advisable to withdraw. The He should have said that there would be a cessation of question was, whether the House, too, should withdraw cultivation.—(Hear, hear.) One or two years must elapse from the inquiry —(Hear, hear)— or whether, until full before final abandonment, to allow the planter to con. inquiry had been made, the course of justice did not vert his stock of canes on h Aid into rum and sugar. Ul require that the writ should be suspended. It was his timately they would be abandoned, and England would decided opinion that it should, and he should, therefore, be placed in the humiliating position of depending for oppose the issue of the writ.—(Hear, hear.) her supply of sugar on the slave-growing contries of Sir R. INGLIS contended that it would be unjust to - Cuba and Brazil. In taking sugar from the latter coon the 1,660 electors of Derby, whose conduct had not been try, the slave dealer was directly encouraged more than impugned, to disfranchise them until next session, or, any other party. The planter bought slaves from him on perhaps, till next Parliament, because ten other electors credit, paying him enormous interest for the accommo had been proved guilty of corruption, and 156 others dation, so that the plantations might be said literally to not proved, but suspected of it. be worked for the benefit of the traffickers in slaves.-- Mr. AGLIONBY said he should abstain from voting (Hear, hear.) Hon. Members asked permission to buy ' one way or the other. After the course the House had in the cheapest market; why not allow our planters to ' taken with reference to two other boroughs, he could not buy labour on the same principle?---(Hear.) At present vote against the issuing of the writ; and, with his he was confined to the dearest, paying the free labourer opinion of the conduct of the Derby constituency, he high wages for four or five hours' work, while the could not vote for it. He considered that the House had planter of Cuba extracted from fourteen to sixteen failed in its duty in not prosecuting an inquiry, since hours' labour daily from his slaves. The question was Government had omitted to do so. entirely one of the supply of labour. Until our planters Mr. S. HERBERT asked why had not the Hon. and got a plentiful supply, and at a reasonable rate, it was Learned Member himself vindicated the character of the useless to think of their contending with the foreigner. House by undertaking the task he reproached them for He had heard it urged that the fertility of the West leaving undone.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Unlike Indies was not so great as elsewhere. He begged to the Hon. Member. he should vote, and his vote would contradict that assertion. He had seen as good land in be against the issuing of the writ. the British West Indies as in either Cuba or Brazil. Mr. BRIGHT said that the blame of all the inconais- All the planters wanted was labour and capital, and they tency of the House in these matters rested upon the Go- would produce as heavy crops as their slave•growing vernment, whose vacillations had been such as to have neighbours. It was idle to say that they were interested utterly confused every one, and more especially that in maintaining a high price. On the contrary, they party of Hon. Gentlemen who habitually, without any were as much interested in diminishing the cost of pro ver; nice inquiry, voted as Government voted. These duction as Hon. Members opposite, and only asked the gentlemen had become wholly at a loss out of which means to do so. As to worn-out estates, he did not be door the Government wanted them to walk upon these lieve in them. In Barbadoes and Trinidad, old colonies ' divisions. As a teller on the previous night, he had where labour was plenty, he believed that they would in observed four of them, whose votes turned the division, a little time be able to hold their ground against the who had evidently lost their way on the occasion. It slaveholders. As to the other colonies, let them exercise appeared to him that the House was bent upon wholly all the skill and economy in the world, they would not forfeiting with the people whatever character still re- b e for some time in a condition to enter into the compe mained to it. tition which this Bill was calculated to force on them, Lord MAHON supported the issuing of the writ. the fruits and benefits of emancipation would be re- Mr. V. SMITH denied that the present law of con- tarded, and thus the best possible argument would be af troverted elections was satisfactory to the people, who forded in favour of the slaveholder. merely regarded the honest decisions pronounced by the Mr. HAWES said be quite agreed with what had Committees this session in the light of a series of forte- fallen from the Right Hon. Member for Oxford Univer nate accidents, not e s the resu lt of a soun d system. It city on the previous evening as to the condition of the was essential to render election tribunals cheaper of ac- labouring population of the West Indies being an impor cess, speedier in their proceedings, and to inspire greater tent element in considering this question, If the Bill confidence in their (Weston& of 1846 had tended to deteriorate that condition he Mr. COBDEN (who was met like nearly all the pre- (Mr. Hawse) should have opposed it; but his firm be vious speakers with loud cries of " Divide, divide") said lief was that stripping West India sugar of all protec it was really very difficult to get in a word. It' you rose Lion was the best way of insuring the welfare and hap to speak at a quarter to seven you were put down by piness of the great mass of the population. He could not Members who wanted to dine ; if you rose to speak at trace the evils complained of by the Hon. Member for ten you were put down by Members who had dined.— Bristol to the Bill of 1846, and therefore he felt bound (Laughter.) He considered that while the Noble Pre- to adhere to the policy it established which was tempo mier ought, in accordance with the principles he had so rary protection to the colonies during a period of tran emphatically enunciated, to have prevented, by his active sition to complete free trade. Why was it necessary efforts, the issuing of the write to Horsham—since cer- now to modify that Bill? Two classes of reasons might tam it was that, aided by the Right Hots. Member for be given. In the first place, the commercial distress Tamworth, he could do as he pleased in that House—yet prevailing throughout the empire had deprived that the Noble Lord was not wholly to blame in the mat- the West Indians of a portion of the time which ter, for, manifestly, progress had been delayed by the might be used in preparation for free trade. knot of gentlemen who sat on the lower ranges of Again the introduction of a superior quality of foreign benches opposite. Whatever the House might do in the sugar which had not been anticipated had deprived them matter, the case would be regarded out of doors on a of some of the indulgence which they had been promised. very distinct and comprehensive basis. All these things, But there was another consideration, and that was, that viewed by the people as the outward and visible sign of in- it was the concurrent opinion of all parties that the ward corruption, were weighed accordingly. He held in his West Indies were in a state of great distress, and that hand a petition signed by a most respectable person, who therefore, relief of some kind was absolutely necessary. prayed that the borough of St. Alban's m i g h t b e placed —(Hear.) In his opinion the plan of the Government in schedule Aof the Hon. Member for Flints Bill. Mr. offered a prospect of the most substantial relief, and it Sturt, the petitioner, stated that at the last election for was for the West I nd i ans themselves to consider whether St. Alban's the corruption and bribery were open and their condition would be bettered by the conflict of par unblushing; that bad as had been the doings at former ties and opinions which its introduction had occasioned. elections there, those as t h e l ate e l ect i on were N o w, the lion. Member for Bristol had asserted that the still worse; that the two opposing candidates re- West Indians had never been in such a state of distress turned were men of directly contrary principles, as at the present moment. If that were true, all former the one being a high Tory and the other a complaints must have been mere cries of " wolf," while strong Radical, that their election had been conducted the present was the only foundation i n t ru th. H e wou l d by the same agent, and their bribery and corruption had not do them th e injustice to think so; h e b e li eve d t h at been paid out of the same purse.—(Hear, hear.) M r . there was some foundation in former complaints, an h i Sturt distinctly stated, that of the 400 and odd per sons was prepared to show that in former times and oneor- e 1 who voted, there were not 50 who had not taken a mer occusious th e i r com pl a i nts f ar surpassed what was bribe. The petitioner affixed his . mtom and addie ss to stated at the p resent t i me . I n a report of the Houre of his petition, and prayed for leave and opportunity t o prove his case. And this was not the only case that Assembly of Jamaica p re p are d i u t h e year 1804, i t was stated that alth oug h t h e a b o li t i on of the slave-trade needed inquiry; by no means. He (Mr. Cobden) be- might be an e ff ec t ua l it was not the sole means b y w hi c h turned to that House had been retu rne d lieved that the majority of the borou g h member s either b re- the West India islands m i g ht b e ru i ne d . The same object y might be effected m ore gr a d ua ll y b y encouraging the cul bribery and corruption or by patronage. N o one could ovation of sugar in th e E ast Indies. The report we n t on doubt that the House was indifferent to corruptio n . The to state that every British merchant, holding securities seats vacated by the recent decisions of the Election on real estates was filing bills in chancery to foreclose, Committees ought to have been transferred to large con- stituencies, such as Kensington, Staleybridge, and although when h e h a d o b tained his decree he hesitated to enforce it, because in such case he must undertake Barnsley. the plantation himself, which fatal experience told hi m Mr. REPTON, as one of the Members for St. Alb an ' s, would be ruin. Nobody, continued the report, would denied, in the most solemn manner, the imputation of the lend money on estates; in fact, so great was the Hon Member for the West Riding. He had no know- d istress that the reporters feared that a , faithful detail would ap ledge of his Hon. Colleague previous to the moment pear like a frightful caricature. He (Mr. Hawes) defied when he met him on the hustings, and he neither, di any one to show such a state of distress ' from Lord reedy nor indirectly, had anything to do with the Li • , ..• Harris s aispatches.—(Hear, hear.) alleged proceedings at the election for St. Alban's. Mr. N Mr. ROBINSON—Th at was during the war. of the issue of the writ. E WDEGATE said he should divide in favour Mr. HAWES—N o; accounts of distress might be extending fro m t h at period d own to Mr. HORSMAN p ro t es t e d aga i ns t th e i ncons i stency quoted 1843. displayed by the House, which would throw discredit Mr. BERNAL—That document referred only to upon its proceeding s i n cases o f corrupt i on at e l ect i ons. Jamaica. lie should vote against the issue of the writ. Mr. HAWES begged the Hon. Member's pardon ; Lord GALWAY said that the Hon. Member for the there were cases from several colonies of abandonment West Riding had unjustly attacked small boroughs, of of estates and general complaints of ruin. Now all this had occurred b e f ore th e fi rst S ugar Bill, when Jama i e. one of which he was a re p resen t at i ve . Th e R on. Mem- a ber himself only owed his election for the West Riding had a monopoly, and he defied any one to show a simi lar state of things under free trade.—(Rear, hear.) He to the creation of faggot votes. Colonel SIBraoRE , said that he had so little confi- could show that from 1760 down to 1843 there had been dance in the Hon. Member opposite, as to be determined, a regular succession of complaints of or immediately from thetelypend if ehe told him to gin one direction, to go in the oppo- i ing ruin. If the quantity o f suga r m p site one.—(A laugh). West Indies from the year 1831 to 1841 and thence to The House then divided, wh en th ere appeare d 1847 were taken, a remark a ble i n f e rence might be For issuing of the writ embrace a period of slave r y., then of apprenticeship, and Against it then of entirely free l a b o ur. The average annu al lin- Majority against issuin g o f th e wr i t The writ is consequently st ill suspended. —l5 pertation during that period was 171,800 tons. F or the SUGAR DUTIES—ADJOURNED DEBATE. following seven years, cotntnencing with 1841, when th e Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to o ffe r an ex pl anat i on , i n production of Jamaica was reduced to its lowest poi nt consequence of a misrepresentati o n by th e H onoura bl e since 1831, the average annual importation was 127,323 Member for Westbury, of a statement made by tons ; the entire difference for the whole of the West him on a formerevening relative to the co.t of the pro- Indies being only 44,477 tons. That was the amount of ia , duction of sugar i n th e s l ave co l on i es o f C u b a, Brazils, the whole annual decrease. But when it was r eco ll ecte d and Pcrto Rico. The Hon. M em b er h a d accuse d hi m that the duties betweentieN_Vitst there Illd was ikta an .s.n, t r India rnot l n lEs of making a very gr ave error , an d as t h e quest i on of increase s t:garuter of e equalise comparative c os t o f pro d uct i on was at the sugarin d' M and tha auritilll, was it t o b e wondered very root of the West Indi a c l a i ms , he begged leave to that some diminution should have taken pl ace ? If he make a few observations in d e f ence o f hi s former state- took the four or five years preceding th e present, he gent, which he was pr e p are d to assert was correct i n found nodec re ase a , s but an l c - m w ( t ) . u ; s i i l e i c r 1 e B a 4 s s e ; ~81 75 71 , (8 3 04 0 4 all its parts, whilst that m a d e by th e H on . M em b er f o r 3 022,000 the production . w 2,152,000 ewt. ; and in 1847 cwt.; in 18 . 46 Westbury was erroneous to th e ex t en t of the difference cwt. This did not show any i e di cat i on of the , aleandon between them ; and he must express his belief that the sugar. Looking to J ama i ca Honourable Member had not given careful attention to arta:let ,otrhtebeavceurlatgiv P e atien ri of r'iettotiolt of the thre e ye a r s , 1840, was 603,750 (:wt., whilst the average of the evidence printed in the W es t Indian Committee re port, notwithstanding he had so entirely relied on it. 1841, a nd 1842, `he three subsequent years was 644,145 cwt., and the average for the two years 1846 and 1847 was 662,000 cwt.; so that there was an increase of importation for .he whole period from the diminution of the duties. He was. thereiore, disposed to look to a different cause fur he distress of the West Indies titan the diminution of erotection. Could it be shown that protection bed tone the least good? Ile challenged any one to ,how him any unbroken prosperity iii the West India iolonies for any period of lung continuance.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") And if he concurred in the protection iiow proposed, it was rather out of deference to the feel ings ot others than from any hope in his own mind that the West India planters would derive arty benefit from —(Hear.) But if they were to hiv' protection as be rween this country and the colonies, how were they to adjust the protection between colony and colony, be cause the cost of production was not the same in all Ole colonies ? Berbacloes and Antigua. for instance, could produce cheaper than the others. The protection to one colony, then, would be a bounty to the other, and that was the view of the clue:lion taken by Mr. Marriott, as tppeared from Lis evidence before the Committee.-- (Hear, hear.) Then, were they to tax the labourers of this country for, as he would show, the most improvident and extravagant management of estates that ever was known ?—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Bernal.) He would prove that to the lion. Member for Rochester on the most unquestionable authority. The truth must be told.—(Cheers.) And the people of this country must know it. This tax of 10s. was not to help the labouring population of the West Indies, but to keep up the estates in the West Indies, no matter how they were managed, and whatever was the cost of Fee duction.—(Bear, hear.) Another ground put forward as a justification for protection, was that of high wage s ' This was the first time he ever heard such an argument put forward. It was well known that the higher the wages the cheaper the production, and for this reason , that high wages were a consequence of skilled labour , and large production of skilled labour. The great fault of the West India planters was, that they relied too much en brute labour, and neglected the aid of science, skill, and agricultural improvement.—(Hear.) In Porto Rico, according to Consul Crawford, the wages wer e Is. 6d. a day, and in Santa Cruz ls. Bd., according to Lord Harris. This was higher than was paid in the Brie tish West Indies; and vet those islands were in a flow rishing condition. He believed that if wages were higher in the West India colonies, that the planters would pro' duce cheaper than they now did. It was slid that the Sugar Bill of 1846 ruined the Mauritius. Now he would prove from the mouths of Mauritius merchants there' selves that this was not so, because, in 1846 itself , before the Bill of that year could have any effect, they made representations to the Government that, with the largest supply of labour at the cheapest rate that was ever known, they were ruined.—(The Hon. Gentlema n here read a statement made by the merchants of 2 ,19 1' ritius to the Governor, in which they said that Maur' . tius was ruined, that only the most favourably Bawl estates would yield a pr o fit over t h e expen d itur e, an that even these barely yielded a moderate interest on the capital invested, notwithstanding the extent of th e crop and the high prices which existed.) This was 13 May, 1846.—(Loud cr i es o f " H ear , h ear. ") I n St*' 1847, the Governor said that the condition of Mauritius was an enigma to him, and a melancholy one. years ago the merchants told him that if they got e supply of cheap labour, and could raise 100,000, 000ib9., they would not dread the competition o f s l av e labour• ; They had the cheapest su ppl y o f l a b our t h at was eyed, known, and their p ro d uce was more t h an they ex pecte of and yet they said they were ruined by the Bill f 1846.—(Cries of " H ear , hear.") Mr. Hunter, one u the most eminent dealers of the Mauritius said that coolie labour was higher than slave labour—that the total cost of a co o ly, i nc l u d ing rat i ons, was 1 91., whilsttithe cost of a slave was only 41. The Mauritius met' chants in Lond on l a id statements b e f ore the Committee' which showed that the produce of a cooly was two ton_ a and 3-sths, that re d uce d t h e cost of sugar to 7 s . 8(1. pe,l cwt. Now th e p r i ce o f a s l ave i n Cuba was 100/., u; the interest of money there twelve per cent. Ma ktng t d fair allowance for th e cost o f wear an d tear , an d loss, i 14 for the (IA rence in the ration s , that would make t cost of a slave ISt 1 ls.; and lie produced, according t the evidence laid beSore the Committee, three tons of sugar, e filch reduced th e cos t i n C u b a to 66. 04t1.Pere f cwt. That mad e a diff erence o f I s . B i l. i n the cost e labour alone. B u t w as th ere anyt hi ng i n t h a t differee ct., to justify a protection o f 10 e . f or w hi c h t he people of no this country were to Brit ?—(ilear, hear.) They heu.' right to call on the ish public to pay for protectidie till every improvement had been introduced into !h West Indies, and till th e y reduced the cost of producttoa to the low es t amoun t.—(lleur.) Ile would show the West India planters that they were a wasteful set of melee' facturers—that they did not produce so largely or te a ; nufacture so economically as they ought.—(Hear, heate). And they ought to do both before they came to ask protection from the people of this country.—(Hear.) Ia respect to Guiana, Dr. e.,hears says that, by improved methods of cultivatice, the produce of Guiana might be _ increased 25 per cent. Lord Harris says that a la r g e _ increase might take place in Trinidad under a bett er ' system. Mr. Ray says—" The hoe is still in genest use, and it agents d i s with e p ted an reluctance expensive that mode e theplough t• ivy suiseied. The z their stock of cattle. Many of the local journals bon! testimony of the same kind; for let it not be supposed_ that public opinion in the colonies was all on the side of protection. The Berbice Gazette and the Trinidad Spey tator spoke in reprobation of the bad mode of cultivation adopted. The Morning Journal, of Jamaica, says, "We have too long persisted in the old humdrum system, and in the use of the hoe." It bad been said that the Co lonial-office disallowed laws which the Colonial Legis latures passed. He challenged Gentlemen opposite to state one single good law which had been disallowed by the Secretary of State. Since 1843 the colonial assem blies had full liberty to pass any laws they pleased. But he had seen with regret, and not without indignation, that attempts were made, between 1885 and 1840, to bring back the negro who had escaped from the lash to the condition of a serf, by means of the ingenuity of the law. The Hon. Gentleman here quoted several Acts passed by the Legislature of St. Vincent's, Barbadoes , and other islands, which subjected the negroes to in 2" prisonment and the treadmill for slight offences. As to squatting, the evidence showed that very little of it existed in the West India Islands. With reference to emigration he wished to know what th e West India gentlemen specifically meant by their cr y for more labour ? Did they mean that this supp l y_ of labour was to be at the expense of the Governme nt • home ? He advised the West India planters to e concentrate their cultivation where necessary, Cher than to diffuse it vaguely over large t ra cts. , aid not, however, believe there w a s s o m uch addition e labour wanted as was represented, but rather a bet te i r: more skilful, and cheaper method o f cu lti va tion. gea r tius was an example in point that a b un d an ce of lab 4 l was not the one thing needful, f or M aur i t i u s since le had received 74,000 labourers, yet Mauritius was ja , state of deep distrees. The real cause o f that distr Tm . he was over-speculation, the ind u l gence on t h e part of h t era planters in highly ex aggerate d expectations. us e had been one remarkabl e om i ss i on i n the whole diseo2 sion on the subject : n o t a wor d had b een beard _ gentlemen opposite as t o t h e i nterests of the consumers' yet surely the wants of the people here were but t° 1 39 0 inht o ,i)c g uh t; t ic h to e ci r (())e n u i e l ed g s l .e e ff c :e cl d teu a fo ltih r ye t bheeps slave-tradeua k t e n o t e a ntdh p e a t r eo t e i ) u , s e w r ay e b t : wwould or, the rendering free labour cheaper than slave I I ; e se and he believed this to Le in the limiest of the rt ily India :planters themselves, if they would but hear adopt and carry out the eternal principles of free t alike applicable to them as to ail other clesses of tb commercial world. d the Lord G. BENTINCK sa id t h at hi s H on . Fri" of Member for Druitvvich had so fully g i ven the hist or y the Committee over w hi c h he heti the honour to.rao a de, that he need not occupy the House at any leerl"cesa that portion of the subject. The Right Hon• the oaf, ceilor of the Exchequer had in his speech taken . ne or thing for granted, both as to the future red uction to our colonial sugar and our colonial rum, and a lso welt he revenue to be thence derived ; but facts alone t s he b. regarded, and the facts in no degree bore c l , d be Right Hon. Baronet's calculations. Nothing a di a el by more exact than th e i nqu i r i es which ha d b ee n m_ epee the Committee in th e v i ew to those estimates rare which they had founded their recommendations - dement ; and what h a d b een t h e result of t h e se ea er i e d thins? Why, this, that upon the whol e • lee of of six years, ending in 1854, th ere wou ld b e a reee_ ll o , ol - 1,338,5001. arising f rom t h e p l an propose d by th, e n p ro' miltee, more than would be realised by the Il ia C 003: posed by the Government. The proposal of tu' r, sa d mittee was to reduce th e duty on colonial sugar' to to though, of course, a porti on of the benefit wee l e c e ; 0 00 9 l' our colonial planters, a cons id era bl e part of the o f would then be levied out of the diminished proßts wit e lave owner, a result which every man impressed The re hatred of slavery must hail with gratification• cy of could be no clearer proof of the ace urti ocie e t d h e s d t the calculations upon which the Committee P r than the fact that when it was known out of do or 4o- CV the Committee proposed to have a duty of 105• er are iga nial sugar, and to retain the duty of 20s. on t , oil sugar, there was at once a fall of ls, 6d. per C ' our l colonial, and a rise of is. 6d. on for e ign suga rs wod U markets, so that the relief to the West Indies oid,r , j . be screwed out of the pockets• of the 810° 1 e d of The Hon. Under-Secretary fo r th e C o lonies tal k nor; the Committee having omittel to care for the CO es ! ee whereas the Committee h a d s h own t h emse lves the _ trot friends of the poor me n h ere — the rea l su ppeeter s s oro cheap prices in sug a r, b y propos i ng t h o se eiel w ith which would maint a i n t h e compet i t i on o f co lonist foreign slave-grown sugar.—(Haar.); The Hon• e any Secretary denied th at t h e Act of 1846 ha d h a d ani mom to do with the ru i n o f t h e Mauritius, an d had a,„/131846t, morial or som e thi ng o f t h e k i nd to show that, "' Tdy of Mauritius was i n d eep di stress. Wh y , on ly in ";eeand last year th e H on. G entleman himself made a 'mete"' point by c i t i ng Mauritius as the seat of h i g h prusPeo,er -(Hear, hear.) And w h a t sa id th e dispatch o f el he, nor Sir Willi am G omm o f t h e 6t h M arc o, 1847 ? ee that the balance of colonial revenue in the Maer l esi d over expenditure was , i n 1845, 16,816/, and in 18 1 4V ir ' ii , risen to 50,9e9/. ; an d f or t h e t h en curre nt year r Liam had estimat e d th e gross value of the colonial a nil ports over imp o rt s a t 479,4151. But this was ot culation of 271. per ton being realised by them es,• is making an aggregate profit of 600,0001.; wher e__ea, consequence of the depreciation of the value of : ese , occasioned by the introduction of free.labouro, ,e,PeoL, under the Act of 18-16, instead of a profit of 6f there was a loss of 600,000/., and half as much .o U' ac If the Committee were chargeable with any ornissi:oo all from its recommendations, that omission had re ri ' bo ' to the East Indies and Ceylon, and was wholly al! t he table to the influence of the Government, which , l ir a medium of the Hon. Member for Westbury, had eniones, defeated his (Lord G. Bentinek's) constant exer du and those of his Mertes in the Committee, to give weight to the claims of these Eastern possessiol..., (Hear, hear.) In Cuba, while the interest of the A" LONDON, SATURDAY __EVENING, JUNE 24, 18413. 1 I 1 i a t C a 4t Pe fr, • et ad bk ' U a I