The Sun. — London, England, 1848-06-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT• HOUSE OF LORDS, June 2. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition against the admission of Jews into the Legislature; also several petitions against the Registration (Scotland) Bill. Mr. Bernal and others from the Commons brought up a message, praying to be furnished with a copy of the evidence taken before their Lordships' Committee on the navigation-laws.—Ordered. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from Hud dersfield praying for an alteration in the law of bank ruptcy. The Earl of EGLINTON presented several petitions against the Marriage and Registration Bill for Scotland. On the motion of the Earl of DEVON, the Poor Houses (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and passed. DISGRACEFUL CONDUCT OF THE CHARTISTS. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a society of Odd Fellows, praying for protection to trade, and in doing so the Noble Lord took the opportunity of directing their Lordships' attention to the disgraceful scenes which the streets of London had exhibited during the last few days. The system of processions which had been resorted to was most abominable, and ought at once to be put a stop to, for it had a direct tendency to bring the sober-minded, industrious, and peaceable popu lation of London into contempt, not only at home but abroad. Besides, the proceedings of the parties who got up these processions being highly objectionable, when secret signs, like publishing on a large placard the words " 29th of May," were resorted to, it was high time that the strong arm of the law was brought into operation, to force them to be more candid and open in their move ments. He would say nothing about: the: object these parties had in view, but be it good or bad, he hoped it would never be attained while they had recourse to these intimidating proceedings. For the last week much of the retail trade of the metropolis had been put a stop to, and he trusted that immediate measures would be taken by her Majesty's Government to prevent a recurrence of these processions:, The Duke of WELLINGTON said it was disgraceful that, for the last four days, the town should have been under arms, and he thought that those persons who called crowds together should be responsible in their pockets for the consequences, be those consequences the breaking of windows or the destruction of ' property. They were assembled nightly to listen to orators inciting to the assassination of the illustrious individual on the throne, and of all other persons who might have lent their aid to the apprehen sion and conviction of a felon. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was rejoiced to state that the precautions which had been taken by the Govern ment had preserved the public peace. Those processions which had been attempted had been stopped in every part of the metropolis, and the police had been found sufficient to preserve the peace; but he thought that those proceedings ought not any longer to be suffered. He certainly had seen the placard of the 29th of to which allusion had been made; but he had been in formed that that mysterious placard was merely in tended to invite the public to attend the opening of Cremorne Gardens. The Duke of RICHMOND suggested i that the ma gistrates should carry the law properly into effect i b y committing persons brought before them for Lhartist rioting to trial, and it was the duty of th e . Government to indict them for interrupting the police in the execution of their duty as a duty which they owed to the polic e force. He was sure that the attention of his Right Hon. Friend who so ably presided over the Home Department, would be called to this subject. He should recommend the Chartists not to go on night after night k eep i ng soldiers under arms. Soldiers were men, and if they were let out, it might be hard to restrain them. Lord DENMAN said that Mr. Justice Patteson had in his charge to the grand jury to-day explained to them the law on t h e subject. Speechesinciting to the commi ss i on o f felony constituted a grievous misdemeanour, and ought to be severely punished ; and it was a most questionable proceeding on the part of tho se d es i rous of further re form to agitate the people at this crisis. He was an old refor mer, but he consid e r e d t h at t h ose w h o ag i tated the public mind at this crisis were undoing all reform. SPAIN. Lord STANLEY rose to call the attention of the House to the papers which had been laid upon the table on the subject of the differences with Spain. He complained of the omission of the statement made by the Government of Spain of the reasons which had induced them to adopt the step of sending to the British Ambassador his passports. He wished to know whether any communication had been received from the Spanish Government, stating the grounds of the expulsion of Sir H. Bulwer, and if such communication would be laid before the House. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that since the papers had been laid before the House some explanation had been received through the only legitimate channel through which it could be received, of the grounds on which the Spanish Government had acted ; that explanation was anything but satisfactory, and the correspondence was not yet closed; but the moment the Spanish Government had afforded all the explanations that could be afforded no time would be lost in bringing them before the House, and whenever those papers came under discussion, he trusted he should satisfy their Lordships that no papers had been improperly omitted from the papers laid before their Lordships. IRELAND. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he had to lay on the table papers with reference to Ireland, and as re peated inquiries had been made in that House with re spect to transactions in Ireland, he:would state what was the amount of relief and assistance afforded to Ireland, and what were the measures contemplated for mitigating the distress there. In the whole of the two years the sum of 8,787,000/ had been advanced for the service of Ireland, which included the amount of 339,0001. which had been advanced for the purpose of promoting rail roads in that country. He was not about to vindi cate the application of these loans in every re spect to which they had been applied, but great good, he had no doubt, had been effected by the loans to railways. He would now explain what was the present state of the assistance to Ireland. He thought the real regenerating principle to be applied was to be found not in large advances from this country, but in the awakened spirit of exertion in Ireland herself. In those districts where seed could not be procured the distress was still great. In addition to the poor-law, which had proved to a great degree effective for its pur pose in having spared a great amount of human life, very considerable assistance had been afforded by the " British Relief Association," carrying on its operations of charity and benevolence upon a scale greater than was ever knowa before in any country, and under a system of management the most perfect, and which had induced the Government to avail themselves of their machinery to administer the amount of aid that might be required in particular parts of the country in training and educating children. 201,100 children had been thus pro vided for. (The Noble Marquis then read from a report proofs of the great benefit afforded by the British Relief Association, which had expended upwards of 62,000/.) The Government had thought it desirable to see that where the resources applied to the education of children, and occasional assistance to unions, had failed, they should be continued until after next harvest. As to the loans which had been made to the Government, they did not intend to ask for the payment of any of the instalments until after the next harvest, and ap plication would be made to Parliament for the post ponement of these instalments. He could not help calling particular attention to the services of the gentle man who for two years had devoted body and soul to the administration of those funds, requiring the utmost industry and care—he meant Count Zaleski, a Polish nobleman, who had refused to take the smallest remu neration for his services. His exertions for the country's weal had been far greater than that of many professed patriots there.—(Hear, hear.) There was now a greater amount of cultivation in Ireland than ever there had been before. The Noble Marquis concluded by laying the papers on the table. Earl FITZ WILLIAM conceived, that though there was much that was gratifying in the statement of his Noble Friend, it was not altogether satisfactory. Th ere was but one mode of conferring permanent benefit up or , Ireland, and effecting those changes in the condition of the various classes in Ireland, but especially of the rural population, which it was the duty of the Government to bring about—that was a large and extensive measure of emigration. POOR-LAW (IRELAND). On the motion of the Earl of LUCAN, the Select Committee on this subject was nominated. _ _ PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS BILL. Lord STANLEY moved the third reading of this Bill. Lord CAMPBELL contended that the Bill was alto gether unnecessary: it was in fact not only. useless bu mischievous, and all that it proposed to do might be do ne by one by a resolution of either House. He moved that it be read a third time that day six months. Lord LANGDALE spoke at some length, but in so low a tone that whether in support or against the Bill it was impossible in the gallery to hear. Lord WHARNCLIFFE supported the Bill, which he said would enable either House of Parliament, in the case of a divorce or other Bill on which it might require further information, to suspend it and resume it in the following session, without requiring it to go again through all the stages it had already passed. This would be a great convenience, preventing unnecessary expense and delay. Lord REDESDALE repeated the objections which he had urged on former stages of the Bill. He did not think it would at all reach the evils for the prevention of which it was intended. Lord MONTE AGLE supported the Bill. Lord STANLEY briefly replied ; and the Bill, with one or two amendments, was read a third time and passed. Their Lordships adjourned at Half-past Eight o'clock HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 2. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. SUNDAY TRADING. `lr. Sheriff Hill presented a petition at the bar from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Corporation, against Sunday trading. The report of the Middle Level Drainage Acts Amend ment Bill was considered and agreed to. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed: Clarence Railway and Leeds and Thirsk R a il way Amalgamation. Dublin and Afullingar Turnpike Road. East Lincolnshire Railway (Alteration of Great Grimsby Branch). Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway (No. I—Amend ment of Acts and Branches, &c.) Exeter, Yeovil, and Dorchester Railway and Branches. Forth and Clyde Navigation, and Airdrie and Coat bridge Water. THE SUN, LONDON, Leeds Central Railway Station. Salisbury and Yeovil Railway. ADDRESS TO THE QUEEN. Mr. LASCELLES brought up the following reply from her Majesty to the recent address of condo lence by the House of Commons on occasion of the death of the Princess Sophia :—" I have received with satisfaction the loyal and dutiful address of condolence which the House of Commons has presented to me on occasion of the melan choly death of my beloved aunt, the Princess Sophia, and I regard it as a gratifying proof of their attachment to my person, my family, and my government." FREE CHURCH SITES BILL. Lord DUNCAN presented a petition in favour of this Bill. NAVIGATION-LAWS. Sir CHARLES BURRELL presented petitions from places in Sussex against the repeal of these laws. THE DUTCH INHABITANTS OF THE CAPE. Dr. BOWRING said he had a remarkable petition to present, as it was in the Dutch language.—(Laughter, and cries of " Read, read.") He had prepared a trans lation, for the accuracy of which he could vouch. — (Cheers.) The petition was from the Dutch inhabitants of Coburg, in the district of the Cape, near the Cape of Good Hope ; the petitioners stated that they had suffered much from the want of a representative Go vernment in the colony, that millions might have been saved to this country if such a system had prevailed ;there, and praying that the House would give them those advantages which were possessed by all free citizens. FREE CHURCH SITES. Mr. F. MACKENZIE presented five petitions from Kincardine in favour of the Sites Bill. He wished to state that he did not agree in the prayer of the peti tions. THE REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE. Dr. BOWRING said he had to present fifty " family" petitions—(Laughter)—from Preston and Bolton, pray ing the House to pass the motion of the Honourable Member for Montrose. The parties signing: the peti tions gave their professions and addresses. STATE OF IRELAND. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD gave notice of his intention, the first Supply night after the Whitsuntide recess, to move a resolution to the effect that the present distracted state of Ireland demands i the imm e di ate att e ntion of Parliament w ith a view to improve th e con dition and redress th e grievan ces of the Irish p eo pl e , and thereby promo te tke prosperity of the Unit e d Kingdom , an d give increased s e c urit y to the Crow n and Govern ment. POOR-LAW RETURNS. Mr. CLEMENTS moved for returns of each poor law union in Ireland, specifying the name of each electoral division, and the valuation thereof ; the total amount per pound on the valuation of the r a t es ma d e for each such division during the year ended the 25th day of March, 1848 ; the amo un t to b e collected by such rates (not including previous arrears) ; and the amount actually collected (including previous arrears) to the 25th day of March, 1848 ; of each poor-law union i n I reland, specifying the liabili ties of such union, on the 25th day of March, 1847; the expenses of the year ended the 25th day of March, 1848; the total expenses and liabilities; the amount in the treasurer's hands on the 25th day of March, 1847 ;`:the amount actually collected during the year ended the 25th day of March, 1848; the amount received from all other sources during the year ended the 2ith day of March 1848 ; the amount available for expenses and liabilities during the year ended the 25th day of March 1848 ; the excess of assets over liabilities ; the exeess of liabilities over assets ; the amount of rates uncollected on the 25th day of March, 1848; and, of each county, county of a city, and county of a town in 'reified, specifying the name of each barony or half barony, and the poor-law valuation thereof ; the present half-yearly liabilities of each such barony or half-barony, or of the county at large, for repay ment of any advances from the Treasury (except under the Temporary Relief Act of 1847), during the years 1845, 1846, and 1847, distinguishing the Acts under which the advances were made, the total amount of such liabilities, and the rate per pound on the valuation. Agreed to. AMALGAMATED RAILWAYS. Mr. DODD moved that there be laid before the House maps, showing the amalgamation of railways, the existing lines, and those in progress, for Great Britain and Ireland.—Agreed to. VAN DIEMEN'S LAND. Mr. C. ANSTEY, seeing the Right Honourable Gen tleman the Under-Secretary for the Colonies in his place, wished to ask him, whether he had any objec tion to lay upon the table of the House the dispatches which had been received from the Lieutenant-Governor of Van Diemen's Land, in reference to the dismissal of one of the judges of that colony, and the proceedings which were being taken in reference to the dismissal of another, and whether he had any objection to state now whether Government intended to take steps to secure the restoration to office of these two functionaries? Mr. HAWES said the dispatches had only just been received, and as they had not yet been perused by the Secretary of State, he trusted the Hon. and Learned Member would allow his question to stand over fur a day or two. Mr. C. ANSTEY gave notice that on Tuesday next he would move for the production of the papers. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of Sir G. GREY, it:was resolved that I the House at its rising should adjourn till Monday. NAVIGATION-LAWS—ADJOURNED DEBATE. On the question being put for resuming the adjourned debate, Mr. GLADSTONE rose to request the indulgence of the House while he endeavoured to lay before them the view he was inclined to take of this important and by no means uninteresting question. He could assure them that he should refrain entirely from troubling them with figures and particular details, for enough had been done and no doubt would be done by other gentlemen in that way, and he should confine himself to the grounds upon which he had arrived at the opinion he now entertained upon this subject.—(Hear, hear.) The question at present under consideration was not exactly whether they considered the plan of the Government in all its details, or even in its view, to be the best plan that could-possibly be adopted, but the real question for them to consider was involved in the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Stamford, namely, as to whether they were prepared at this time to make an extensive change not only in the details but in the principle of the navigation-laws. He was afraid that many who read the motion of his Hon. Friend had no difficulty in giving it such a construction as to make it mean something equiva lent to nothing, because many said that no inconvenience had been proved as attending the navigationelaws, and that they could not be altered in any particular without endangering our maritime interests. He, however, had understood his description of the principles of the navigation-laws to be equally clear and succinct. He un derstood him to say that the principle of these laws, as regarded our domestic and colonial trade, was to secure an absolute and exclusive right to British shipowners ; and with respect to our foreign trade that the shipowners of different nations were entitled to a reciprocity of deal ine' ; and that the navigation-laws in thatlatter sense ought to be altered, and that the present was the mast season able time to make such alteration. In his (Mr. Glad stone's) opinion, there never was an instance when the proof was more distinct that they ought to legislate than at the present moment. From the attitude assumed by foreign states, it was absolutely necessary for them to decide finally whether they should continue in substance their present commercial code, or whether they should proceed upon a different basis. His Hon. Friend had spoken of Prussia in slighting terms, but he begged to say that we carried on no more important trade with any country in the world than we did with Prussia, and that her commercial power was of the first class in a question of that description, and ought to be dealt justly with by this country. The menace which she uttered against us was perfectly fair and equitable, because she gave us an opportunity of knowing, in the event of our not relaxing our commercia laws, what her real intentions were. It had been stated that because the colonies failed to deluge the House with petitions for an alteration in the laws there was no ur gent necessity, so far as regarded those colonies, of taking them into consideration at the present time.—(Hear.) If they did not hear of the grievances of the colonies in the form of petitions to the House, or in any other way, they m i g ht d e p en d u p on it hat the time was notfar distant when they would speak i n a l anguage that would not no h uld not be misunderstood.—(Loud cheers.) Look thecasefit case o fr f om th th e e p A ro u t s e t e r t a i l v ia e n law c s o . lon T i h es o — se laws c ompelled the they deriveden grower to send his wool to this country at a greatdi sadvantage, whilst the wool of Germany, which had to come but one-fourth the distance, was und u ly favoured. The Australian i an s m seships hy which wool Brower anxious grower to send h was compelled send i to e his wool leave the port of the copper in ballast, and on the same principle th Cuba could be convey e dieih copper of Chili a n d without those restrictions to which the Australian wo o l prod m sa i m gh e t m be ig b h r t ou b g e h s t ai i d nto of the market produce was subject. The ur marker at a of e j c a . h m e a a i p e e a r . rat l e t , but the possessor was liable to h competitors who possessed those advantmagjeufedwhibcyh were denied to him. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Stamford said he was ready to make all the foreign trade of the country a matter of negotiation; 11, was ready, for instance, to allow the planter of Cuba the power of sending sugar in American vessels t o this country; but he insisted that with respect to Jamaica the practice which existed should continue; he was l a a n advanta g e s t e r in wprheipeahrhede wtoasgpivreeptaoretdhetopdlaenntyertoofthCeupb Ja maica. But this was the time of for all others had, for the repeal of the navigation -laws, than recent commercial legislation , do ne more we could weby our po t trade d a e gai o n f in th a e by period to increasing stimulateu o the r shipping t and consequently to find avenues to em p lo y ment country, which did not before exist. The noblemen and gentle. men of England opposed the repeal of the navigation laws, because they believed such a coarse would have the effect of impairing the utility of the maritime power of the country—(Cheers)—and if he could bring himself to entertain a similar opinion he should oppose the Bill. He could not go the length of agreeing in the mighty flight of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Manchester, because he believed when the benign con tagion of increasing commerce spread its way through out the world that the abrogation of these laws would be found one of the most salutary measures that the House had ever adopted.—(Hear, hear.) It could not be said that their repeal would destroy the maritime power of the country. By a recent statement of the Colonial Secretary, it appeared that in 1792, when the war broke out, that the naval force of the country consisted of from 16,000 to 18,000 men. The mercantile navy then consisted of 1,500,000 men ; now it was somewhere about 4,000,000. The real question was, what would be the mercantile effect of removing or continuing the navigation-laws. Would the repeal of the navigation-laws give an impetus to the ata- rine, or would it dwindle it down to nothing? He believed that the effect of a judicious alteration in the navigation-laws would be to strengthen the commerce toa fendnar ? Theavigation D ane the and th e country. Swedeh adWho? Certainly the country not. It was said that the country had great ground to fear them, because they could get cheap seamen and cheap ships ; but if there was any ground for fearing them, how came it they had not been driven out of the trade of the world ?—(Hear, hear.) The Americans victualled and manned their ships at far greater expense than this country did, but they did not fear either the Dane or the Swede. The truth was that it was not the cheap country, but the dear one they had to fear—they had to fear the country that had capital, and not that which had not. It would not be fair or right to assume that this measure involved a censure upon British seamen. He believed that the abi lities and the knowledge of seamen in their profession would be brought to a much higher point by a less restrictive mode of competition. On several grounds, therefore, he could not hesitate in saying that the time had now come when they ought to have an extensive alteration in the navigation-laws, and he had only to state to the House what appeared to him to be the character of the measure now before the House. H Be o e di luilsn c pt co hi n seea l sddd, and thboaeveme: make kr w ee, i shed that th e s pi r it conditionali this—thatn fact, r t ehaecd concessions oeosyseeni echo hn os omwfietnhttohwteheerre the words of Mr. Bancroft, the American Minister, when he said, "We shall do what you do—if you do much we will do much—if you do all, we will do all." He was of opinion that the fears of British shipowners as to a freer intercourse with other countries had been greatly overrated, and that in reality very little difference would result to them if the navigation-law s were altered. He could wish that there were, with America on the one hand and the Baltic on the other, a free and unconditional intercourse. He was aware that the very name of "reciprocity treaties" was unpopular, but that arose from the unjust prejudice which had been created by the universal and unequivocal failure of all attempts to contract engage ments of reciprocity with regard to the Customs Acts. But that prejudice ought not to attach to the present case, which was wholly different from that of the Customs Act. He contended that the two subjects were widely different. Holland, for instance, was, in its policy, liberal in .re spect to the customs duties—not so as regarded its nay. gation-laws; and France, Spain, and the Italian sta.. had considerable apprehensions that great mischief would be done, and great scope be opened to the selfish views which prevailed in some countries, by the exclusion of their ships from many trades by the operation of double du ties. He, therefore, thought it would have been advan tageous to pursue the course of reciprocity treaties in the present instance. He said this because the measure propounded by the Government was not lunconditional, inasmuch as it reserved to the Queen in Council the power of retaliation.—(Hear, hear.) This discretionary power, he owned, was to him highly objectionable; and, though he was aware similar powers had before been re served, they had never been of so important and exten sive a character. True, in the Corn Bill a similar power was retained, but it was regarded as a mere brutum fulmen which would not be resorted to. He, therefore, did not form a precedentlfrom this case, and he thought the House ought to know whether the power was proposed to be dormant, or to be actively exercised against such countries as did not reciprocate with Great Britain. There ought to be given an explicit pledge on this part of the subject.—(Hear.) The other points on which he differed from the proposition of her Majesty's Government were with respect to the restrictions they still proposed to retain. It was impossible to pass a sweeping measure of this kind, and still retain the re striction on the shipowners which compelled them to man their ships with three-fourths British seamen. An other restriction proposed to be retained was that which referred to the British fisheries; but the most important of all was the maintenance of the restriction with regard to the coasting trade. He did not see why the coasting trade should not be dealt with in the same way as the colonial trade. In his opinion the retention of the re strictions on the coasting trade, while it would be of no value to the British shipowner, would have the effect of materially restricting the advantages which all were anxious he should obtain in the coasting trade of other countries, and especially with reference to that of Ame rica. It would be of immense advantage to the shipping of this country to be admitted to the coasting trade of America. An Host. MEMBER—If we can get it. Mr. GLADSTONE (in continuation)—Why, Mr. Bancroft had declared, " If you will do all, we will do all ;" and that word " all " he (Mr. Gladstone) took to include the coasting trade.—(Hear, hear.) Though America was to be admitted to the colonial trade, they were to be refused a participation in the coasting trade of this country. Now he did not think that any Hon. Member, even in his immediate neighbourhood, enter tained the belief that if the coasting trade was opened to America, any vessel with the flag of the stars and stripes would ever engage in it.—(Hear, hear.) Practically it would be an idle and an empty permission. We had a coasting and a colonial trade. America had no colonies, but had a coasting trade eqaivalent to a colonial trade ; and with our connexions in North America and the West Indies, to the north and south of the United States, we were in a posi tion to take a very beneficial part in that trade. America was ready to give us all we gave her. If we gave her the coasting trade, we were entitled to ask for her coasting trade; but by giving her our colonial trade only, we withheld what was worthless, but which would enable her to refuse valuable concessions to us because we had not given up all.—(Hear, hear.) He cordially concurred in the general principle of the relaxation of the navigation-laws; he was sincerely desirous to give effective support to this measure, and should be sorry to take any step to injure it. On the other hand, he hoped that Ministers would not feel themselves precluded from accepting any suggestions which upon discussion they might consider an improvement.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the general principles, he never felt more certain of their soundness, of their applicability to the case in hand, or that the time had come which was marked out for their application. A petition presented the previous day from merchants, &c., in the City, declared that this was the last moment for touching the navigation-laws ; he much wondered to what class of considerations these gentlemen could have applied their minds; for whether he looked at the aspect of affairs on the conti nent, the position now assumed by Prussia, or the steps taken by the United States, he never remembered a great question where the preliminary consideration of time had been so determinedly settled aad pointed out by the concurrence of important circumstances.—(Hear, hear.) In one sense, certainly, it might be true that this was the last moment for touching the navigation-laws; for if the question were postponed a year or two the opportunity of considering it might be for ever lost.— (Hear.) For whenever we had endeavoured to plead the relaxation of our commercial code as an argument with other countries, we had always been met with the observation that that argument came too late from us, for that we had always clung to our restrictions as long as we could, and had only surrendered them under the pres sure of overpowering necessity. Considering what was the avowed intention of one great maritime power, and observ ing that the course of political change on the continent was not favourable to commercial freedom, he feared that if we refused to close with the fair offer, though made in an unfriendly form, by Prussia, this might really be the last moment for considering the navigation-laws.-- (Hear, hear.) Much sympathy had been expressed for the British shipowner. Did he alone fear the competi tion of foreigners? Did ha labour under greater disad vantages in this respect than other interests from whom protection had been removed? Did not all trades pay higher wages, and buy their materials dearer, than the same trades in other countries? Yet these classes were able, not only to hold up their heads in the general competition of commerce, but to take the lead in the race.—(Hear.) So would it be with the shipowner. He had the same advantages as other trades—in some re spects greater. He had in his favour the unparalleled cheapness of capital, the enormous trade of this country, which being the chief home of trade, and also his home, his employment lay almost at his door, while his foreign competitors would have to seek it at a dis tance. He had the immense commercial connexion of this country, and the high commercial character it bore, which possessed a pecuniary as well as a moral value. Besides that, he had the geographical position of the country, so admirably placed between the centres of trade in the old world and the new, so that their trade must of necessity pass England. He had wha was more than all these, the maritime genius of the nation, the bold and enterprising disposition which made an Englishman feel himself at home upon the wave, that power which characterised us beyond all nations:of the globe, and which made it true of British navigators and merchants that the whole world was their home.—(Cheers.) With these advantages he surely ought not to dread the permanent and general effects of any competition into which he might be called to enter. Former fears had been tested by experience, and proved to be wholly unfounded. It was said that the reciprocity treaties would ruin the country; multi tudes of calamities had been predicted to result there from; and yet it was now said the state of things was so satisfactory that on no account should it be interfered with.--(Hear, hear.) Taking, therefore, not theory, but ou t applyingpast their e t a ho p ew e na r n ience, for their guide, let them not hesi tate to ad o pt th e c h ange p ro p ose d i n it s ma i n p r i nc i p l es; and adopting th ese p r i nc ipl es b o ldly an d h ones tly, an d fi re rm su l l y ts ,. we lf m n i o g w h , t r a e n l d y on without their fthe working urr delay, we sanctioned the principle of freedom of naviga tion, we might expect our example to have a powerful influence . o n f ore i gn countries; for we had already the A hr m st e f r r i ti ca its co o n f e t u b r a r t e r d e i s n ul a t e i t n tin th g e t i he nviteaxtai:plgei,vietnwtoould b us by so great a po wer as America. And when England and difficult indeed for other nations to resist it; they would be drawn into compliance by moral ties, and considera tions of expediency as well. The ocean, the great high way of nations, would become as free for the ships of all as the winds that swept over its bosom; and England would thus achieve another triumph, and add another contribution to the general prosperity of all nations. Mr. HUDSON said he had the honour to represent a borough where the largest amount of ship building was carried on of any . place in the kingdom, and where 25,000 out of 70,000 inhabitants were employed in it ; and on this account he felt bound to express his views on this important question. The Right Hon. Gentle man who had last spoken had disapproved of almost Hon. Member Right on. Mm ber fo hra d S ta t m or d. 6 0 1 I every part of the Gover nment measure—to carr y o ut his own views, l° th i g erat rt)ll e w T i e he s o th e Hon. fact that the low-priced vessels built in our colonies were dearer than th ose Gentleman e built at home. This was perfectly true ; but, when he alluded himf t— the Prussian ports, the case would be very different. had to compete with the ship - bui lders of Dantzic a nd At present the trade from Russia was carried on with English ships; but very soon it would be found more convenient to transfer British skill in ship-building to the place where the materials existed, than to bring the materials here to be wrought up. The ship-builder of Sunderland stated that he was subject ; to charges from which the foreign ship-builders were exempt, equi valent to not less than 2/. 10s. per ton. It was true that the shipping of this country had been highly prosperous during the last year ; but from a return of the ships entering the port of Sunderland for ten years, since the passing of the reciprocity treaties, he found that the number of ships from Sweden, Norway, Prussia, and Hanover, greatly exceeded the number of British ships —the latter being 95, while the former was 350.—(Hear.) Should the proposed measure pass into law, the ship building trade would, in a great measure, leave this country ; at Sunderland, about 13,000 hands would be thrown out of employ ; and already there was quite a stagnation of the trade, owing to the uncertainty which prevailed as to this measure. Hon. Gentlemen opposite said, that having adopted free-trade measures we must progress ; but he was a bold man who could hold that language. Look at the state of the working classes in the manufacturing districts, and the country generally. If such was the effect of free-trade measures, the sooner we reverted to protective measures the better. In the West Indies the planter had been almost wholly destroyed by the free trade measures; and a Committee of that House had recommended that their protection should be restored. In she event of a great Mall in the price of corn, the agri culturists at home would again demand protection ; and, if the shipping interest were next sacrificed, what was to be the result of all this? Surely, it would be wisdom to wait till the measures already adopted had had a fair trial. The people had been promised abundant employ ment from the free tra e measures, instead or which employment had been diminished and wages reduced.— (Hear.) The present measures threatened to deprive of employment 25,000 of the people of Sunderland, who were directly dependent on ship-building ; and there were probably 25,000 more, indirectly dependent on the same interest. It was most harsh to deprive such large bodies of employment at one stroke.—(dear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) was clearly bound to support the amendment; for he even disapproved of pro ceeding in this case by legislation, and thought treaties the preferable course. He had criticised every point of the proposed measure with great ability; and yet he had come to the extraordinary conclusion that he ought to support it. If the measure were carried, it certainly to be accompanied by any restriction on ~enc_:, either as to the composition of their , in any other matter.—(Hear, hear.) He dif fered from the Hon. Member for Manchester, (Mr. Gibson) in thinking that the only thing worthy the no ' tice of Parliament was commerce. Surely an object well deserving the consideration of the Legislature was the means of giving employment to the poor.--(Hear.) He much regretted that a Member of the Government had chosen to cast aspersions on the British marine. Out of the large number of 33,000 captains, it was im possible but that some should be of objectionable cha racter. The returns from the consuls on this subject had been ably analysed by his Honourable Friend near him (Hr. Henley) ; that was a book which ought never to have been laid on the table of the House ; and every one interested in our marine must regret that it had ever been produced. He implored the House to pause before adopting a mea- sure which must involve a most important intevst in ruin, and which must, to a large extent, destroy the ship-building trade of this eountry. At all events, let them pause. See what was the effect of the free-trade measure already passed. There was no demand for the measure now proposed; it might very well be deferred for an indefinite period. It was said Prussia demanded it; but let not the legislature make concessions to Prussia which would be injurious to our own country ; at all events let some countervailing advantage be se cured. The corn-law had been repealed in a panic, otherwise some valuable concessions might have been obtained from the United States, in) return for the ad mission of their grain.—(Hear, hear.) We had taken largely of grain from Prussia and other Continental States; and had we made the most of this, surely some advantage might have been obtained from those countries. The shipping interest was now apparently about to be sacrificed for no object whatever ; the only inducement being that we might propitiate Prussia or America.—(Hear, hear.) Government were pushing on the measure; but, for his part, he should take every opportunity of opposing it. Why had it not been brought forward earlier, and not delayed until June? The inquiry before the Committee had been abruptly brought to a close. One main branch of the question— the national defence—had been left untouched, with the exception of the examination of a single witness. If the measure passed, he hoped it would bo with the amendment of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Glad stone.) The proposal was either too large or too small ; it threatened to destroy our commercial marine, without securing an advantage to any other interest. Let not the House be led away by eulogies on the fanciful ad. vantages of free trade, none of which had as yet been realised.—(Hear, hear.) Under the present law slips were built at Sunderland cheaper than in any other place. That port furnished one-third of the shipping of this kingdom; but, seeing how little British timber was employed, it was impossible to resist the conclusion that, if this measure became law, the ship-builders of this country would transfer their capital to those king doms whence the timber was obtained.—(Hear. hear.) Captain BERKELEY said he must express his dissent from the views of Sir J. Stirling as to the dependence of the royal navy on the mercantile navy for a supply of hands. Of the apprentices reared in the royal navy, many went into the merchant service; but the supply of able seamen was net largely derived from that service. Formerly, merchant ships were rigged and unrigged by their own crews; this was now no longer the case; hence good riggers and able seamen were no longer needed in and a th p o p s r e en sh tic ipessip , b.For this re the boys of the e n royal navy acce pt a ble, whether they had d eserte d , or f u lfill e d t h e i r there was w not er e v every that supply of able seamen from the merchant service which used to take place. With respect to the apprentices, there were 3,000 said to be in the small fleet which 8 last 2,883 3 eight were years. acco u n They taccounted a r m o b u y n ted t o desertion; 2 1,0 0 0 0 f. they now employed. He held in his h an d a re t urn o f the number of boys who had ent ere d h er M a j esty ' s navy for the e 2, aining 18,117, only 2,947 re j oined the royal ntaafe m navy. But But upon inquiry he found that this arose from the circumstance, that when they went into the mer chant service and made a voyage, they entered the men of war as if they did so for the first time, thus passing themselves off as merchant seamen, whereas they were brought up in the royal navy. He rejoiced, however, at which took place between the royal T navy, but he would not e that they received so many men recs fromyhH asotnentm. the fv. Gentlemen ae reciprocity and tnhb navy teeb as was supposed. At the present time they had 20,000 seamen, but at the end of the war they had no difficulty in getting 100,000 sea men. There were, however, from 60,000 to 70,000 British seamen serving in foreign countries, particularly America; and they had it for a fact, that when there was a rumour of a war between the two countries, many men came back and volunteered their services to her Majes ty's nav y. It was well known that there were American agents at Portsmouth, to induce men to enter the Ameri can service, and when, at the end of four years' service in an American frigate, they came back with 100/. more in their pocket than if they were in the British service it was not to be wondered at that they went into the Ame rican n a hear.) r new that pr ac ti ca lly it was a I navy.—(H ear, y b .— (H With respect to the regis • tration of s eamen, had been successfully e l u d e d , an d yet i t was e a r h , he k farce. so hateful to the men that it had driven many out of the country. H e could only say, th a t h av i ng cons id ere d the subject, and havin g ex amined the arguments on both sides, he had no fear that if the Bill brought in by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) had been carried out, that they should have been able to man the navy as well and as quickly as they ever had done.—(Hear.) Captain HARRIS agreed in a great deal of what had fallen from the Gallant officer who bad just spoken. He, however, differed from him with respect to his ob servations on the registration of seamen. He believed that the reg i s try-office contained the means o f mann i ng without the navy having recourse to impressment. If there was a feeling against the system of impressment throughout the country, it was better that they should take steps now with respect to the manning of the navy than on the eve of a war, when they night bg led to adopt hasty and crude measures. If we .. ssor.s of the Admiralty did not take the subject into their consideration he would introduce a measure him self next session. He believed that Sir James Stiiling was entirely erroneous in the evidence he gave before the Committee on the navigation-laws, both with regard to his facts and his plan of manning the navy. He was surprised that the Ri g ht Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Oxford should not only have ap proved of the measure of h er Majesty's Government, but of the denationalising of the merchant navy. He could have scarcely believed that C a gentleman who had held office such high under the Crown would have approved any such measures. They were going to give up the system of apprentices, on the ground that it was a hard- The apprentices might per baps be in too great number,ship on the shipowners. but he would suggest that the plan of reducing the number should be tried before they gave up the system altogether. He believed that they were able to compete with the Americans in the construction of their ships , though he thought that Swe den vessels c and Denmark could construc heaper th an t f He therefore was o they could in this country. some advantage should get nion that the Government from those countries by treaty. Above all things ho would advise her Majesty's Government not to alter the f th ofthe seamen at least three- our s law which required that —(Hear, hear.) seamen should be Englishmen. to enter his solemn pro- Sir A. HOOD begged leave e test against the measure of the Noble Lord. II be lieved that the effect of it would be to undermine what had always been considered the bulwarks of England. He believed it was a mere measure of free trade, the navy. But what object of which was to cut down the done to West there in he w ou ld as k, had free trade the Riding of York s hi re itself? Were not t he p eo p le in the greatest distress? Were they to have no regard to the interests of their colonies, which would be so much injured by this measure, and which were already re duced to the greatest distress? Mr. CLAY sa id h e did n ot approve of the details of the measure. As a free trader he could not advocate the interest of one class at the expense of another, nor should h e i ns i st on the worn - ou t argument that inas muchto the as th e commercia l mar i n e was a nursery royal navy, th e navigation -l aws o ught to be considered as the price which they paid for the greatest of all g oods, the nati ona l defence. He abhorred the system of im pressment, and he believed they never could have re course to it again, but at the same time the measure was not satisfactory to him unless they could point out some way of manning the nav y in time of emer gency w ith out having recour se either to the system of i mpressment or t h e s y s tem of high bounties. He believed that the protection of a particular class was never intended by the institution of the navigation-laws. The present measure proposed to takeaway all the privi leges given by these laws, and to leave the burdens. This seemed to him to be very unjust. They said that their sailors were most inefficient, and yet they were going to retain that part of the navigation-laws which obliged them to have three-fourths of these inefficient men in their merchant vessels. That was not his elation of free trade.—(Hear, hear.) He was of opinion that it would be a great advantage to the British shipping in terests if their coasting trade was thrown open to the Americans. It seemed to him that they imposed burdens on the shipping interest for national purposes, and yet the nation repudiated to pay for those advantages. He did not think that was fair. He believed, that though there were many things which might be amended in the British seaman, he was not the inefficient person he was represented to be, and that he was able to compete with the sailor of any other country in the world. He was not, however, satisfied with a measure in which the interests of the shipowners were not attended to. He thought they ought to be relieved from the duty on ma rine insurance. He thought also there ought to be no vexatious charges imposed upon those who took out of bond small c;' entities of stores for short voyages. This might seem a small grievance, but it was one which con siderably affected his constituents. There were similar charges at foreign ports from which the shipowners ought also to be relieved. Much evidence had been gone into to prove that we could not compete in ship-building with foreign nations, but he did not attach much im portance to the evidence which was adduced on that point upon either side. He thought that the practical grievances were what the British shipowners had to fear, and if those were removed he was not disposed to think they would suffer by change of the existing laws. Under these circumstances, he of course could not give his support to the amendment, not believing that it was by any means desirable that the principle of the navigation laws ought to remain untouched. He knew that it was very likely his views would be far from acceptable to either party, but if he satisfied nothing else he should at least satisfy his own conscience by the vote it was his intention to give that night in favour of the measure. Mr. NEWDEGATE complained of the way in which this measure was brought before the the House, without complete evidence being adduced in support of it. He also complained of the way in which statistics were used in support of the measure, and especially of the way in which they were used by the Member for Westbury (Mr. Wilson). The Hon. Gentleman had quoted the returns of tonnage from 1817 to 1823, to oppose to those of the year 1846. But during the interval Sir R. Peel's banking Bill had passed, and the consequence was great commercial depression. It was, therefore, an abuse of statistics to take the years cited by the Hon. Member. So different were his (Mr. Newdegate's) own calculations from those of the Hon. Member that he be lieved the Americans in a very few years would have a greater amount of . tonnage in their marine than we should have. The proportion in which the maritime navy of that country was progressing was, at the pre sent time, much greater than ours. They were upon our heels, and were fast overtaking us. But he was told that this was in effect an argument for alteration of our existing system, and that we had better at once throw over a system which did not sufficiently protect us. We must not, however, try to deal with the United States in that style. The United States, for her part, acted on the principle of the strictest reciprocity, and so well did she work it that of her whole trade only 17 per cent. was carried in foreign vessels in 1846. It was no trifling matter, therefore, that we were dealing with. The Chevalier Bunsen, on the part of a great European power, intimated distinctly that relaxation was not the principle of the Zollverein. The country was beginning to look with great distrust at the motives which actuated that free trade which they observed had its origin, its centre, and its aim in Manchester, and which for its sole result, everywhere else, had produced private ruin and public discontent. He called upon the Noble Lord op posite, as he valued the preservation of his reputation for statesmanship, as he desired to avert the curses of pos terity, to refuse his sanction to this Bill. Mr. WAWN said that the shipping interest of this country had very little occasion to be fond of reciprocity treaties, under which its business had so greatly fallen off, having, among other losses, sustained the entire loss of the South Sea whale fishery, which had become vested in the Americans. There was the reciprocity treaty with Russia; what had been the effect of this treaty 2 That since its ratification there had been an increase in British tonnage engaged in the trade of 58 per cent., but in Rus sian tonnage, of 150 per cent. The Ministers had made many blunders in these reciprocity treaties, and many more they would make before they tumbled through.— (Hear.) As to the proposition of admitting the Ameri cans to the coasting trade of this country, he had no fear of the Americans themselves coming here to carry on our coasting trade—they were too far off; but he objected to the admission of the principle involved, for :he knew that the people who put in this wedge would drive it home, if room were given, and we should have, not the Americans, but the Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians, usurping our coasting trade. The injury, however, which now weighed upon our coasting trade, and threatened to overwhelm it, was the railways, to which an abase of power in Parliament had given such monstrous facilities for obtaining a monopoly in our home-carrying trade. He wanted to know whether the Government, as some compensation, would reduce the timber duties, so far as our shipbuilders were concerned. Ile wholly repudiated the statement of the Hon. Member for Stoke, that the shipping interest was in a condition of prosperity. He called upon the House to recollect that what made us independent of foreign countries during the war was not free trade, but our colonies, rich, industrious, and loyal, and our thriving mercantile ma rine. Let not the House, by assenting to this measure, destroy both these sources of independence. Viscount INGESTRE said that the Government had assigned no valid cause for the fatal and sweeping change which they proposed to make in oar navigation system. If there were defects in that system, let them be clearly shown, and he for one would consent very readily to remedy them, but he did not understand why, because a man was ill, he should be poisoned instead of cured. If free trade was to be quoted as the reason for effecting the proposed change, let him ask whether free trade principles had maintained themselves. The oc currences of late months would too clearly prove that such had not been the case. The full effect of the abo lition of the corn-laws had not been experienced ; when it was, Hon. Gentlemen would not be so enamoured of that change as they now were. He recollected in the good old fashioned times, when ships, colonies, and com merce, was a standing toast. The statesmen of that day never anticipated the hour would come when foreign ships were to be allowed to snatch the coasting and carrying trade from our native sailors. There was an adage, which, though homely, he thought might be aptly quoted, namely, " that charity begins at home;" and if the propounders of the proposed policy had re garded that maxim a little more, it would have been as well for the empire. There had been none of that cla mour or exertion made to induce persons to oppose the abolition of the navigation-laws which generally at tended great changes. He had presented a most impor tant petition yesterday, numerously signed by seamen, and every one of whom had voluntarily, and without be ing stimulated to do so, come forward almost in a body to put their names to it. Aa for the Blue Book, which had been so much quoted in support of the proposed change, he must say he did not rely upon the statements contained in that book; on the contrary he considered it to be little better than a heap of calumnies upon British seamen collected by the assistance of British consuls. How ever, there was very little hope that a measure introduced at so late a period of the session would be passed. If the navigation-laws ware abolished one of the immediate consequences would be that British capital would seek investment in foreign states to the great detriment of the native interests of the empire. The Americans would also get all the most valuable freights, namely, the light goods, whilst the heavy carrying trade of s ugars, and other raw produce involving greater risk and more wear and tear, would alone devolve on English shipping.T i ot the e the oproposed earnestly change he e came t more he:Board t consideration, oedetails a r e dof Admiralty to render t was convinced of the duty which devolved upon the Government themselves masters of the serious changes which would be thereby necessitated in the efficiency of the fleet of Great Britain. He did say that, before the House en under andh hise terod upon an alteration of the laws which involved the honour and safety of the empire, the Government was bound to propose some substitute for the present mode of manning the navy. The Hon. Member for Westbury had compared the amount of the mercantile tonnage of this country from 1817 to 1823, and from 1845 to 1846, to show that a great falling off had taken place in that tonnage. But the Hon. Member for Warwickshire had very clearly shown that the imputed cause had had nothing to do with the apparent falling off. Lord J. HAY said that the Noble Lord and all who had opposed the proposition of the Government, rested their opposition on the effect it was calculated to produce upon the naval character of the country. He was ready to concede that the naval power of this and any other country must dependl upon its commercial prosperity ; and it he could belie , re that this measure would disturb the naval power of England, it should not have his support. But, after considering it in all its bearings, he believed it calculated: to add to the energy, enterprise, and spirit of this country, to increase its wealth and naval supremacy.—(Hear.) Twenty years ago he heard the same arguments used in that House against a relaxation of the navigation-law s; and what had been the result since ? Why, that e very fresh step towards relaxation had produced an incr., ease of British tonnage and a corre sponding increase of British seamen. Some Honourable Gentlemen had stated: that it would be prudent to wait until we found a corresponding liberality in foreign countries. He, for o' se, was not prepared to suspend the natural results that f nust spring from freedom of trade, because other natioi is were too stupid to understand them.----(" Hear, hear,!' from Mr. Hume and others.) It was said also that the shipping interest of this country was unable to compet a with that of other countries—that the building and equii tiling of ships cost more in England BthaonionEnglandl., the a t n b d a t r as in cheaper t than elsewhere. H e i ,ellieved that was true a s re l a t e d to inferior ships, but cei M a i n ly not as regarded first class t Indies; any c 1 3u ships, which cou ld li e b u il t and equipped cheaper in t n e r itn h te the comparison um nation o on n ia er t id h s o e snt g ao l t o fe b s6 e bo , y. oocheaperol. nearlyto o, o 20 per cent. With rega rd to what fell from the Hon. Member for Oxfordshi re respecting the correspondence of the British consuls, he could only say that he had read every word of it, and t hi evidence contained in the Blue Book, and speaking fror a its own experience, was prepared to verify every word of it .—(Cheers and counter cheers.) In 1831, when he con in landed one of her Majesty's squadrons off the Dowi si;, they had to put from 80 to 100 British merchant sl i ips under the protection of the British flag; and scarce 1;y a day passed that he was not called upon to decide a g carrel between the master and crew of one of them, iu r early every instance the master being wrong, and the j men ill-used.—(Hear, hear.) In the like manner, in 1843, when he commanded a frigate at New York, :Aim, cases of complaint were brought before him, which he plainly saw had arisen from a bad state of moral discipline on board the vessels. He had lately taken pains to make inquiries on the subject from some professional men, and every one of them confirmed the opinion he entertained on the sub ject. He did not mean to cast an imputation generally on the mercantile marine of this country; he spoke of particular trades, and of vessels making short voyages, and was aware that the Thames, the Clyde, Liverpool, and Bristol formed exceptions. It had been asked how it would be possible to get men from the mer chant service to join the navy in case of need, with out having recourse to impressment. This was scarcely a fair question to put to a professional man, but he did not hesitate to state his firm belief, that if this country was to-morrow involved in a war, the necessary consequence would be a stoppage, to a certain extent of trade, which would throw a number of men out of employ in the ports, and it would not be difficult to get volunteers for the navy among them. However, he certainly should not recommend impressment, for there would be no necessity to have recourse to it.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite (Lord Ingestre), at the beginning of his speech, had asked another question, to which he (Lord. John Hay) thought it right to give an answer. The Noble Lord asked, what the country had got by free-trade measures. His reply was "You have got everything you expected, and I only hope the repeal of the navigation-laws may be as successful as had been the repeal of the corn-laws."—(lronical cheers from the Protectionist benches.) He (Lord John Hay) understood the meaning of those cheers ; but he would tell Hon. Gentlemen opposite that he had looked into and understood as well, and was as muck attached to, the agricultural interests as they were, and he defied those Hon. Gentlemen to disprove the fact that property had been sold, and farms been let, at higher prices and on better terms than was the case before the corn-laws' were altered.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HILDYARD (Whitehaven) said, as a young Member of the House, he hoped to be allowed, even at this period of a protracted debate, to state shortly the grounds upon which he felt it his duty to oppose the resolutions which had been brought forward by her Ma jesty's. Government. In spite of the opinion expressed by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Gladstone) to the con trary, he (Mr. Hildyard) held that the onus lay upon the Government to show the necessity for incurring so serious a risk as their proposition involved, and what rational likelihood there existed of gain to the country which induced them to undertake that risk. No Hon. Member on the other side of the House had remarked upon the immense stake which was involved in this ex periment. The capital embarked in shipping by this country was not less than 40,000,0001., irrespective of the capital embarked in occupations connected with shipping. Hon. Members opposite bad spoken of the owners of this capital as though they were a protected class, and could well afford the reduction in their profits which this measure must inevitably produce. A greater error could not exist than to suppose that the capital em barked in shipping was concentrated in the hands of a few rich individuals; on the contrary, he knew that in the port he had the honour to represent a very large portion of the tradesmen and all the retired merchants there had, according to their respective means, embarkd their property in the shipping connected with that port; and let the House consider the immense ruin that must fall upon these individuals if this experiment of the Go vernment failed. Let them remember the number of hands who gained a livelihood from shipping, besides the sailors, who, by reason of a failure in this proposi tion, would be involved in ruin. In such an event, what was to become of the enormous body of sailors who would be thrown out of employ, and who were utterly unfit for any other occupation? No one had at tempted to deny—on the contrary-, it had been admitted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Gloucester (Captain Berkeley), and by the Noble Lord who had just sat down—that the prosperity of the commercial marine was essential to the efficiency of the naval service. Such being the risks to which capital, the men engaged in the service, and the empire would be expoied, what was the necessity and what the advantages held out by the Government to induce the House to consent to incur these risks? In the first place, it was stated that the policy adopted by other nations made it necessary for this country to change its policy, and two nations, viz., Prussia and America, had been named. He cared not whether or not the intimation which had been given to this country was to be regarded as a threat and menace, because there was no probability that Prussia was, or would be, able to carry that menace into execution. That menace he could trace to the ill-advised course taken by the Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Board of Trade, when he told a merchant who asked him to relax the navigation-laws in a particular instance, that he thought those laws required alteration, and he re gretted he had no power to interfere to alter the provi sions of the statute. Language of that sort soon became known to foreign powers, and they would as soon at tempt to take advantage of it.—(Hear, hear.) He be lieved that the louse mode in which this sort of language had beea used by persons in high official stations caused the threat of Prussia on the one hand, and the soft in vitation of America on the other.—(Hear, hear.) But no reasonable man could believe that Prussia had the power to carry her threat into effect. And now as to the soft invitation of America. The suggestions of Mr. Bancroft might have been made in perfect good faith ou his part, but it did not follow that the executive powers in America would carry those suggestions into effect, even after this country had adopted them. America was not rescinding her navigation-laws pari passu with this country, but was watching the proceedings of the Bri tish Legislature; and in the end, if the American Execu tive should be left in a minority, in what condition would this country be? Assuming that America acted with good faith, we must give up to her our colonial trade, and she had nothing like it to give us in return.—(Hear.) It might be an advantage to give up the coasting trade of this country if America would throw open hers; for the probability was that America could take none of ours, while her immense sea-board, with its constantly developing trade, would be in some measure thrown into our hands. The number of American vessels engaged in the coasting trade was as great as the whole of those engaged in the foreign trade. As to our colonial trade, it was said the colonies demanded this measure. He denied it. They had demanded relaxation with regard to themselves, and we were about to give it to all the world, which, so far from being a boon, would be a positive disadvantage to the colonies. Hon. Gentlemen had contended that this measure was due to the co lonies as a compensation for the late free-trade mea sures; others defended the measure as a benefit to the consumer at home. But bow could it be beneficial to both? If the reduction of freight went into the pockets of the colonists, where would be the advan tage to the consumer:at home? One fact ought to be borne in mind. Since the Ist of March the corn duties had again come into operation, and a duty of 6s. or 7s. had been imposed. Corn had not, however, risen in priCe; the obvious inference was, that before the duty was re imposed the difference had gone into the pocket of the foreign corn-grower. Here was the fallacy of the boasted doctrines of free trade; the revenue of- this country was robbed to enrich foreigners.—(Hear, hear.) The case of Canada had been strongly relied on by the supporters of this measure. It was said the Americans were carry ing away the whole traffic of the St. Lawrence, and there fore we must have competition. Why, it was competi tion which had caused the mischief ; and how could an increase of competition remedy it?—(Hear, hear.) But the great question was, could we or could we not success. fully compete with those in whose favour we were about to legislate? If we could, why make any exceptions at all—why exclude the coasting trade from the com petition ? The measure itself implied distrust in the efficacy of what was proposed.—(Hear, hear.) After twenty-four years' experience of the reciprocity system, he found that there had entered inwards of British ships from Norway, Sweden, Holland, and Prussia, 118,207 tons; while the shipping of those coun tries entered inwards amounted to 665,600 tons. Thus, although at the close of the war we had the whole car rying trade in our hands, we now retained only about onesseventh.--(Hear, hear.) How did Mr. Porter, th e great authority of the Board of Trade, after the Hon. Member for Glasgow (Mr. Macgregor) had ceased to instruct Ministers there—(Laughter)—how did he deal with this fact? He alleged that our ships had found more profitable employment. It was clear that the operation of the reciprocity treaties had been precisely the opposite of what was represented. The case was stronger when British and Russian shipping were com pared. In 1846, the amount of British shipping en tered inwards from Russia was 452,438 tons; of Rus sian, 65,000 tons. In the very next year the amount of British shipping was 541,000 tons ; of Russian, 128,000 tons ; the increase being about one-fourth in our case, and double in that or Russia. (Hear, hear.) The reason was that Russia, like America, encouraged her shipping; and unless we did the same how could we compete with them on equal terms? The consequence must be that we should be stripped of our commercial marine, and should soon be left utterly de fenceless.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Man chester had talked of our having arrived at a new era, when glory, power, and supremacy, had passed away.— (No, no.) At least that was the; sum and substance of what he said, an d t h e sentiment had been vociferously cheered by those around him.—(Cheers.) lie wished the "new era" might prove as prosperous as the one which he supposed passing away. He (Mr. Hildyard) could not but be reminded of the speculation of one of our greatest modern poets, who, sitting amongst the ruins of _aceloe brated city of antiquity, had anticipated a like fate lr modern empires.—(Hear, hear.) If the House should unfortunately contribute to such a result , they o not would have the mortification of reflecting that they ha done so from any necessity, but merely for the sake of ministering to a false and hollow liberality._ (Cheers.) Sir J. WALSH moved.that the d ebate be adjourned; before the strangers were ordered to wit hdraw ; but, the galleries were cleared, Lord J. RUSSELL rose to express a hope that if the House intended to take a division on the preliminary resolutions that they would do so at nce, and not further adjourn the debate, especially as o Hon. Members would have full opportunity of expressing their opinions when the Bill was brought in.—(Cries of "Adjourn.") It would be most inconvenient to postpone the introduction of the Bill until after the holidays, and as on Monday next it was understood that a Committee of Supply should be moved, in order to give the Hon. Member for Dersetshire an opportunity of bringing on his amend ment founded on the Spanish correspondence, and, as if this debate were further adjourned, it could not be re sumed before Thursday, when the discussion on the re solution could scarcely be taken before Whitsuntide, he hoped the House would consent to go to a division at once on the amendment of the Right lion. Member for Stamford.—(Cries of " No," "Adjourn," and " Go on.") Mr. RICARDO also urged the propriety of dividing at once on the main question. Sir J. WALSH must insist on his motion, as he and many others intended to express their opinions on this preliminary step.—(Cries of " Go on, " Adjourn," and " Divide.") ~+ SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 3, 1848. ,r Lord J. RUSSELL observed that the -debate might be continued when the House went into Committee on the resolutions. Lord G. BENTINCK—But we don't "tend it to go into Committee.—(A laugh.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL—If the amendment should not be carried, and Hon. Gentlemen opposite would 4' low the division when taken, to be so far conclusion as to permit the Bill to be brought in, he should not object to adjourn the debate.—(Cries of " Go on,", sna " Divide.") Mr. HENRIES said the Noble Lord's plan would not do, as if he and his friends should be in a majority',lc' they intended to be—( A laugh)—the Nob le Lord vyou not have the opportunity of expressing his opinions on the subject at alt. Mr. CARDWELL observed that it was general' understood that the debate would be further adjourned, and he, as well as several other Hon. Members, wish ea to take part In it, which they could n ot do if it we° brought to a cloSe that evening. Mr. H. BAILLIE asked, why not r esume it on Mon day ? Lord J. RUSSELL had no other o b j ection than the,. the Hon. Member for Dorsetshi re havin g given notice a direct vote of censure on the Go vernment, it r_ scarcely proper to allow it to stand over until after to holidays.—(Divide.) Mr. BRIGHT, who spoke amid cries of "Oh, 00 !A and much interruption, suggested that if the Noble Dei; OP had not made a positive arrangement as to Monday,i. debate might be resumed on that day , and the questio. as to the Spauish correspondence mig ht be deterred a later day in the week. Mr. HERMES suggested that it was not impossible that the discussion on his Hon. Friend's (Mr. 13 0 ,.... e. ,7 motion might conclude at an earl hour_( laugh) 0 so, the 'adjourned debate might be taken aftervrar& theLo same night. rd J. RUSSELL, who again protested a gainst 34 e. 1 delay which should retard the introd uction of t,, beyond the period when the House adjourned for t he holidays, expressed his concurrence with the Hon. Gentleman's suggestion, and, supposing the d f er ro, should come on on Monday after that on Spanis h I st he hoped Hon. Gentlemen would permit it to be brovg li to a conclusion on that night. He should have oen3sly to detain them but a very short time. The question that the debate be adjourned t ill g00d3,1,/ next was then put—the Speaker declaring the IS to be the majority ; the " noes," however, deloanci,- division, and the House divided, when there apps , " Y For the adjournment 236 Against it Majority -1 63 Lord J. RUSSELL proposed to fix the stliernnieisii: of the debate for Monday, after the deba te on Sl'a" affMr.airs. s et th e RICARDO said it was hopeless to 110 debate would come on on Monday in that ease' tioo better, therefore, to fix a p recise day for the reetu n P of the debate. A t 311 Lord J. RUSSELL said it bad better 4 0- „ e the events for Konday. They could then decide Wile debate would come on. The debate was accordingly adjourned till 0.-° n PRISONS. A T, le ol9 On the motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERA 7 - Aa of was given to bring in a Bill to facilitate the money by corporate bodies for building or te P prisons. INCLOSURE LEWIS LANDS. ; o p t ° On the motion of Mr. C. leave Wsi g land ° bring in a Bill to authorise the inclosure cer,triepers in pursuance of the third, and also of A 3 1 )°c ' A gl ifitle'' of the Inclosure Commissioners of England III" pas 00 The House then adjourned at a Qua rter o'clock. BANK OF ENGLAND' (From last night's Gazette . ) cap ,s9,l° Au Account, pursuant to the Act 7th and Bth of Vict°l the Week ending on Saturday, the 27th day of i• i ts 11, 016 '0 Government debt e• 1 ,98 4 . Other securities •• •• 11, 3. 6 0 Gold coin and bullion 1,40, Silver bullies • • •• • • X 20, 145 ' 1 hi e fCola.r‘ M. MAIZSUALL, C • IBBU DYPARTNENT. Notes i55ued........ 26,743,610 £26,743,610 Dated the let day of June, 1848 ➢ANKING 1 X. Propeetors' capital.. 14,553,000 Rest .. - ... ..... ... 3,391,979 P Lib' IC deposits (in cluding Exchequer, Commissioners of National Debt, Sav- CPLITSCEN T. Government sec — , 0 ti e s (including PO 0,7 1 74 Weight linnuitY)'' 1 1,511::;0 O t h er securities " • • 6,0 of N o tes ••••••" • • 11., Gold and oliNer coin'' ings-bank s, and Di- vidend accounts) .. 4,866,035 'ether deposits .. 9,135,479 Seven day and other bills 1,032,232 A35,911' U. MARSTIALL, Chid £32,978,725 RAILWAY . SHARE iiiTotiii.sliss so LIVERPOOL, Jezir 2. ,i trAircb, STOCK EXCHANOIL—The prices of shares an -s n e. - , improved, l and business in general has a better ;1;0 sales are—Eastern Counties, New, 10/. Shares , 1:1,r, (1516 L cate cashire and Yorkshire, Fifths, 1% C. dis•---9410,,1e Western Westi Liverpool and Bury), 01A dia.--Dittet ` d 10ter, Riding i. Union), 33i c. dis.—Londen lisaclies.oo, Sheffield', ' il l yr — l y n itto, New Quarters, 1% 1 34 ~ar • 9 0 1 0- 4, 5% c. dis.—North Staffordshire, ir S o t r o d c s k h , i r e 1 ,03 Quarters, 5 dis.— kf l a n esn s re h n ir c e ei 2 l: c. P p_ r 2. e ... ; D er si e to ri tuo r : e c t / .I ,osd r ! te.ers ! iri b Loot : r rf icoa: Newcastle, and ec C ras, h Nt e l s eo t : e a r 3n , dBl3 l. ed al r — is wis 'F r.i d : e_ i D ( Nitt.oi,mNdo.l3-I.,ETxhiterirdsroul s o: 2, , i so r c ; I),IANCRESTER, JUNE 2 ' beset .' a no STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Birken o wls f or shire, and Cheshire Junction dis• - * ill i c s e' ll ts , ` Yorkshire (West Riding Unio , n), Prile•ference, 0- ' - n ' . 2, ',. - 1 5,' chester, Sheffield, and Lincolnsh'ire, Quarter', 4 1 - 0 , es,,`''' Ditto, Preference, par—Ditto •G l rinisb.p,n2i°3_" io - c- . _ . c tra •- : dis.—Ditto (Sheffield and LiFlC(olnshire. , 7 ,',, rt h Stp, 4, Midland (Bristol and Birmingham), Va" - "n" shire, 2 7-16 n. dis.—South-Eastern and Dover' 2A c. dis. Sori ll :t STOCK ExCHAN B G I E R .-- 11 " I f N h G e E s l a A le ilL S are—sE L2on. doll 50 d - *Kj ~T vr 0 06 Sot' Western, 128—Ditto, New, Ith —York, ' 4 l, c as t alP' Berwick, No. 2 • (New Berwicks),P•l% I).AiniVeticlfilAii;;.;" tingham, and Boston, • 23' s dis.—Birminghain, '' - 9 4 - ir ton, and Stour Valley, 2.-4 dis —Great Northern, a nd 8 North Staffordshire, 518. 3cl • d* —Shrevieburiglidia• niinglmiu,(A), 86s. . dis,-Shropshir e ' • ". ..e Union , 2 7s 10' ----- i'lo l ', h , PHILANTHROPIC SOCIETY Sr. GM:4OSP° ,of P -Yesterday afternoon a quarterly general cotir4,ooto+ governors of this society was held at the London 1 0 Ol e R h opsgate-street, William Gladstone, .E 3c ll e ati 11, (chair. The accounts for the quarter Wing n fillS.t e a thetettand the proceedings of the committee co, ow, treasurer stated that the Duke of Bichnloo",ll37 preside at a public meeting, shortly to be held, `,. 4 ." e ctit (purpose of petitioning Parliament to adopt more r e, an' , the measures for the prevention of juvenile delinque; of b e reformation of youthful offenders, by nie ao o f 1:7 01 ,,, gious anti industrial education." The ntanhereted f 02 1" various in the asylum is 136, and the number acliDa-istsSil and during prisons, or on recommendation of o'f f oro ill the last five months, has reached 5 Raging coS!:1 mi definite powers were given to the nos added, al s ttee, to which Lord Westminster was sc i . . ae scht • Feavuedra,l, having ' 0 8 „, chairman, and the meeting separated. ...rag.' Act, been announced, thanks were Tag i ENROLLED PENSIONERS AT CFIA• -- : dist , •A Local Battalion of Enrolled Pensioners of th' s ;o forn c sisting of 350 men, including non-cosl,s3"gatli officers, assembled on Tuesday in front of P r " 0 000" Barracks, and formed into six divisions under en . 1 10 0 of Captain Richard Jenkins. The battalion w 571,161 marched to the Great Lines, attended with thediretiC and a fifes of the corps, when these veterans p e nt t ° sic' field-day. The battalion having marched Psi i " "I 00 and quick time, and performed the manual so d . P g s o /1 exercise, went through a variety of metoce, 3ll tt TOS 11 0 1 the utmost precision and celerity. Th is ua,-6isr of reviewed last summer by the Secretary "ad apt el • g ; Lieutenant-Colonel Tulloch and the Coiniasou'-&bighs' garrison, who were pleased to express satisfaction of this corps of pensioners, whnl,F,Peat f._ sr . average from 39 to 45 years of age, and are env ,. 0 tar their ear 0 any service whatever. The day was very fi n !' lilte d company on the ground, including several *- Oa , dir v••. officers, was numerous. After the battalion „.co missed Captain. Jenkins gave a dinner to the solohoti missioned officers, to the number o f 22, the 1)6 having completed their drill on the 30th alt. satru!, fADVERTISEMENT.]--THE EARL OF A-36°1100011,10 AND HoLLowAr's PiLts.—An al tounding cure by WO fr ovt 4 5, medicine, after every other means had failed. See extr act 0,11 11°0 fs Lordshi's letter, dated " Villa eg Messina, L e ghorn. f tithe Professor H o ll owa y—Sir :Ib t o ac quaint you th at Y ld t to r o t effected . a cure of a disorder in my liver and stoulne lt t WO,' eminent of the faenity, at home and all over tho co ntitae' d o r o il been able to effect; nay, not ever the waters o f Carl , , I ' . 7, s ial rienbad. (Signed) " A L DBOILOCGA." These wonder cure any .disease of the liver or stomach.—old (210,04::7 Oiatmwit) at Professor Holloway's Establtstunent, 244. . ,- )r , ell medicine vendors throughout the elviltielwortti* Dated the Ist day of June. IR4B. 1 I MTH.% On the 3 0 th ult., at Fitzroy-square, the wife Of All Wotton, of a daughter. n On the 31st ult., at Clarendon-road, Kensinglo--,., *.ark, % th , C. Foulgar, of a son. ~ at Hartley Rectory, 00 On the 26th ult the wife of the Rev. J. T. Plummer, 01 a son. of C iir t On the 26th ult., the lady of the Rev. G D. Croft thorpe Rectory, of a son. a rts. A rs• On the 29th ult., in Great George-street, P. Clark, of a son. lie d 03 0 . On the 30th ult., at Ha ilt 1 ce, New-roe ' Hamilton-place , on-p a • Pt of T. Wakefield, Esq., of a son. near Alton, • fi e ld, I li g ' t* 4 01111 On the 30th ult., at Warnin lid near Cuck Br O ickenden, of a n. Vill a s, the 10 Of U' ll : Robi n ns t , h E e 8 3 1 1 . s , t o u f lt so a ., s a o t n ET v. Rowley-place ° I '- - MA /Ulan. fl p d diatOr l A 4of. I On the 13th ult., at St. James's Church, • w e lo is P o , the Rev. J. S. Whiting, C. B. Coney, Esq" °f 1.1 41.1°°- Norfolk, to Elizabeth, the widowof the Rev . L. of Sudbury, Suffolk. DLICL roug h h Oen' • ' On the 26th ult.; W. Ward , E s q ., of Guils di' .. the county of Northampton. S a m, On the 27th ult., aged 22, William S a muel, se ccdici f il D 7 o o E. Nason, Esq., Nuneaton, Warwickshire. 'ck, Es c !" ° On the 30th ult., at Worthing, T. Carri es 3 Mount, Middlesex, aged 62. 74, widow Munro, of Hadley, o. ,__,_ G. 0.5.0.- On the 30th ult., at Enfield, Mrs. Carmoliidndele/siefxoll:°' On the 31st ult., at Windsor, Sir W. 1 1 13 '"'", pa ' vil o la n s, 'O lt. the 31st ult., aged 39, Mrs. Jane Barker, 0. At Dalston-rise, J. Powell, Esq, aged_ 76. hv i c b, R. l ace , l a 00. , On the 29th ult., at Mulgrave-p ed 7 4 Esq., aged 79. deg tbe =Too reel' On the 30th uat Bermondsey-, Mr. W. sa w _ i On the 28th ult., at Watford, Herts, Le "" wife of G. F. Healey, aged 26. London : Printed and Published by MURDQ.I N o . 1 1 ,1 No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun 000 0 1 -01 7 - Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, is l ila Middlesaz, Saturday, cam ; 3, Imo• ,