The Sun. — London, England, 1848-05-06 00:00:00

Government, therefore, thought themselves at liberty to depart likewise from those bases, and the Noble Vis count found himself outwitted, a circums•ance at which be .expressed feelings of no slight resentment and mortification. He was not about to pronounce any opinion on that transaction, by which the happices of the Queen of Spain was sacrificed to the interests of a dynasty. He thought it useless and ungenerous to ad vert Ito it now, when that dynasty, by a species of retri butive justice, was driven from a thron e i n w hi c h he in common with tall Europe, thought it fi rm l y fixed. Ile would, however, take the opportunity of adverting to a rumour which he hoped was unfounded, that when the Infanta of Spain, the Duchess de Montpensier, arrived here from the country of her adoption, for the purpose of returning; to her natural home—her native country, that opportunity was se aid by her Majesty's Govern ment of showieg their resentment to that marriage, and objection was made to the direct passage of the Infanta, in her peculiar situation, from this country to Spain (Hear, hear.) He hoped there was no truth in that rumour. Whatever objections might originally have been. entertained to that marriage, circumstances had removed these objections, and on grounds of po licy and prudence he should never cease to think that if indeed any objection did exist, it was an opportunity lost of pursuing a course at once generous and just. Flowerer, from the moment of that marriage, although Narvaez was not at that moment Minister of Spain, and even antecedent to that period, there exited the greatest jealousy between the Governments of England and Spin. Truly or falsely, Narvaez and the Spanish GI, 'comment were supposed to be under the influence and control of France, and the proceedings of the Moderado party were all connected with French influence in the mind of the Foreign-office here, while on the other hand, truly or falsely, it was believed by the existing Govern ment of Spain, that the Government here and the repre- Tentative in Madrid were mixed up and politically con nected with the opponents of the Government, the Pro greesista party, and that they were desirous of over throwing the Spanish Ministry. Be that belief well founded or not, it no doubt existed, and therefore of all persons to give advice with reference to the internal policy of Spain, the Noble Viscount was obviously the last man who should have offered such advice, or could have offered it with the possibility of its being followed. But even had he been fitted to tender his advice, the Noble Viscount could scarcely have been more unfortunate in his choice of a medium through which to offer it than he was in selecting Mr. Bulwer.—(Hear, hear.) Even if the go vernments of the two countries had been upon the most , friendly terms, such a letter could not fail to offend the susceptibilities of the Government and people of Spain. What right had we to dictate as to the forms of govern ment which should be established in Spain. If friendly , advice was tendered it should be on the ground of advan tage to the country, and not on the ground of any per sonal danger that might attend the adoption of a contra ry . course. But the moment chosen for giving this ad vice was most inopportune. There was no necessity fo! Spain offer ing such advice. At that moment the Queeilot and her government were acting in strict accord ance with the constitution. That letter was dated the 16th April, and on the 24th of March, stimulated, no doubt, by the successful example of Paris, there was an attem pt ttetTl danger t at in r aurrection in Madrid, but it was put down, broken out and be alluded to by the Noble Viscount h ad subdued. But notwithstanding the altered_ circum stances of the case, and after the dan g er which was ad• wised to be guarded against had passed away, theßritish Minister took upon himself to express his opinion as to the time when the Cortes should be assembled, and the course to be adopted by the Spanish Government. What would be the indignatio n of this co untry if any forei gn government were to take upon itself to interfere with our internal concerns or choose that manner? Had not every country the right to its own form of government? Was not that the principle known and recognised in this country?—(Hear hear.) Supposing similar ads ice hart been tendered to the King of the French, that he should have dismissed M. Guizet sod called another minister to his councils? I!' such advice had been offered it was plain where we should have found ourselves shortly after. The pride and dignity of Spain were offended. The motives urged by Mr. Bulwer in the commeeication be forward , d were most objectionable, namely, that the Queen of Spain was indebted ro the assistance of Englano for the thron e of Spain. It Nat impolitic, ungenerous, and ill advised to urge such arguments even it' they were true The assistance rendered to Queen Lab. IL was in aid of a suffering people. HP h- ped that that effeesiv , communication, ma le more off -reeve still by the circum stances under which it was offered, was capable ot satisfactory explanation.—(Hear, hear.) It had been addressed to, perhaps, the proudest and the haughtiest Minister that Spain ever saw. The step was most in judicious, and likely to prove anything but beneficial to the. interests of this country. That dispatch bad pro duced the severest rebuff ever received by any British Minister conducting the foreign affairs of this country, The dispatch was returned unopened, as unworthy of the sender. He knew not what it was the Government intended. He did not believe that the dispatch was ever communicated to any other member of the Government of this country. He did the Government that justice . They had no personal responsibility in this matter. The coincidence attending this communication was also most unfortunate. ller Majesty the Queen of Spain had just conferred a high civil honour on Mr. Bul ver. He be lieved that the interference was unwarrantable. He concluded by moving for the production of copies ot correspondence between her Majesty's Secretary ot State for Foreign Affairs and the Government of Spain. dated March 16, 1848, and April 10, 1848; and alt subsequent correspondence, The LORD CHANCELLOR having put the quesaufi, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose and said—My Lords, I do not mean to follow the Noble Lord through the great variety of topics which he has connected with his motion—l shall confine myself to the subject of the motion exclusively, and shall not enter into any of the details connected with those topics into which I do not consider it necessary to enter at the present moment. inasmuch as I am prepared to lay upon your Lordships' table that very correspondence which has just formed the subject of the Noble Lord's speech.—(Hear, hear.) I shall, therefore—without meaning any disrespect to the Noble Lord or to your Lordships' House—abstain altogether from any observations upon the speech of the Noble Lord, contenting myself by referring your Lord ships at once to those papers which I am about to lay upon the table, and which will be immediately placed in your Lordships' hands, because I think that these papers will speak fur themselves, and will give the most perfect elucidation of all the Acts to which the Noble Lord had alluded. I feel, however, my Lords, that I ought not to allow even this evening to pass by without making some observations in respect to what has just fallen from the Noble Lord, and some endeavour to put your Lordships in possession of a correct statement of facts.—(Hear, hear.) First, then, as regards the state of facts as they exist, and as the papers I shall now lay before you wilt prove to exist. My Lords, it is quite true that a communication was made to our representa tive in Spain at the particular period, the date of which the Noble Lord has correctly stated, from my Noble Friend at the head of the Department for Foreign Affairs in this country. It is true this communication was made to Mr. Bulwer, the British Minister at S, air,, having reference to what appeared to be the internal state of that country. But here, in this very House, the Noble L or d. i n seeking to give effect to his statement, has with great emphasis stated that this was a communication which my Nob e Friend had ordered to be in ide directly io the Snatish Government, ~Sy Lard this statement is a son's', denial. e m iti ) s . ) l e : e ( t ) o na at . ion was not ordered to be ma le at occe thrn:lSnputa.hteosth, a G i overnment. It was a cum nunicsaion made by of the depart ment for Foreign Aff drs to th h e im repise t, t , itativ e of Great Britain in Spain, iostruteing i the nternal affairsguge which he was to hold with the of hat country in his own e Spini,h Government. But how dot-s my Nobles w i Friend the direct him to hold these communicati ons . ? The Noble l Lord may be in ignorance , and very naturally, no doubt, is in ignorance. en this subject , because he h 55 most ti', pro bably been led to mike this statement upon reading the version he has seen given of thi s affair in th e pu b lic newspapers. These instructions have undouhtssty been published ; but I know now how, nor from whence, n or by what authority, they had appeared in a French news paper.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, had, however, no other means of obtaining the inforesatien upon which he has made his statement. Nuw the French newspaper has cerraiols giren these instructions very nearly verbatim, with the exception of a very few words. But it happens that these few words make, after all, the whole difference in the nature of the charge which the Noble Lord has so unjustly made.—(Hear, hear.) It is ver y eas y , as the Noble Lord knows, by the omission or the addition of certain words, however tew they might be, in a public dispatch, to alter the whole colouring, the essence and character of that dispatch. It is obvious, whoev(r the person was that had made such alteration —for I am far from be lieving that it was made by the Duke of Sotamayor, for I believe this Nobleman to be wholly incapable of such an act—but whoever was the correspondent of the French newspaper at this time, it is obvious that either he or his colleagues had intended that a certain im pression should be created contrary to what the ori ginali correspondence would have justified. This com ncation, it was said, had been made direct to the Spanish Government. Now, I tell your Lordships that when you come to see it you will find that it sets out in the v recting Mr. very first sentence with words di his senti ments to Bulwerthe Spanish use his elf trts and to convey eSpanish G overnmen t w h ene ver an opportunity occurred negativing the ve r y „ for doing it; thereby entirely csition that it was intended to be commenicated directly uP suppos d to the Spanish as the Noble Lord Government, Hear, hear.) My Noble Friend beside me just sug e gesy n s , ( l t ti o d m e the fact that it was in great measure wholly confidential ; but whether it was so or not, the expressions that the o wh'eh I h ave j ust t alluded obviously imply com munication intended to be made di rect l y o the r uunication wa s not meat. It is clear that if it were so i intended Govern_ l anguage of a totally different charact er would be d.Wi t h proud every Government whether it be g reat or smuaslle. humble, it is the duty of the Governm ent o f this , while they maintained relations of amity with et o address them in terms of respect, in a manner thhunt ryr, a ° m ' that cons i s tent with the maintenance of those relations, a and according as the law o f na ti ons and Policy prescrities fro m one st,t , . towards another.—(Hear. h ear. ) But I ray, my Lords, that these instruction s were intended, as Y li w appear oti looking at , those papers--were manifestly intended; for Nil% Bulwer 's own guidance. Th at o f i tse l f at once explains- what the Noble Lord seems to think requires explanation..--(llear, hear.) Si) tar from this communication being intewded by my Noble friend to be made directly to the Spanisiv.Guyernment, t h ey , ere instructions sent solely for the guidance of Mr. Bulwer • and evidently received as such by that gentleman ; f or , halt= his celiatistuiiceting at once aiitbstte E t a ... t e de I Sotomayor on the day after he received the dispatch • 1 from my Noble Friend, he-chose himself the moment for addressing theiSpsnis tr Minister upon the subject. I can not, however, oso far as to say that Mr. Bu wer was instructed to use the language and the expressions which he had used on the occasion.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord will, no doubt, ask why were the expressions communi cated in the precise form of words? Now, on that sub ject I am quite prepared, my Lords, to say—and I think I am also speaking the feeling of this country generally —I much lament that Mr. Bulwer had thought it right in the exercise of his judgment to express himself in the manner in which he had done to the Spanish Minister; and I am far from thinking that he had exercise a sound discretion in the language he had made use of in his communication. lam not, how ever, disposed to judge with great rigour such au act when called upon to weigh the conduct of a most able and meritorious public st rvant, who was acquaioted with the affairs of the country in which he discha.ged the high and important duties of our representative for a period ot Ciur years. I say, my Lords, that under such circum stances I have no wish arbitrarily to condemn any such • step as that taken by Mr. Bulwer. The expressions used by Mr. Bulwer, though perhaps manifesting a want of judgment at the moment, should net be viewed.as the result or any instructions which he had received from my. Noble Friend. I, therefore, think that the observations which have been made by the Noble Lord on this part of the case fall to the ground. I now come to another part of the Noble Lord's statement, wherein be cha rges my Noble Friend with an improper interference with the affairs of Sp case and in respect to this part of the beg to call your Lordships' attention to what the nature of that interference was. This interference washnotwitF, more than the expression of general symp . a the condition of Spain, arid an advi ce to th eotbeen for. Spanish Government.—(Hear, hear.) That advice had t e given until it had been repeatedly askedWe were in the habit of giving advice, and . t t he s Sp a a i n e is w h aa, Govern wentthe had frequently asked fore, undoubtedly in a s ituatio f n or to i receiv p eany to ad he v r ic w e e i r t ii a friendly spirit, which whic h . was tendered the view to the paciticationo e t ff t e h eh e teea country , means a a s o fe d trhih l s e ea a rd d va in itca g e , as we thought, to the most bility and prosperity .— (He ar, given in the spirit of hostility to the Spanish Govern. meat ? No—it was obviously given for the purpose of explaining the view entertained in respect to certain transactions by the Government of this country, in order that the Government of Spain might not be taken by surprise hereafter. That advice and opinion so framed, though it has been • said to have created great difficulties in the way of a good understanding between the two countries, Spain herself had again and again stated to be indis h pe ea n r s . a ) ble to her internal peace and pros- M we y al L d Lords, I ha d d o'c s o o n m e e eiv r e , that to c omplain if, after asking for our assistance—after tasroen. 43 t h e e rit 4 .— an ( is ti ll e G ar o ' vernment questing information in respect to the quadruple treaty as they had done —we refused or neglected to put them in possession of the sentiments of this country. The Noble Lord no dou m bt ie re i wt na for he was hi a em pa b r e ty rs t w e e i ll the terms of that ttyr,dbSuTt l A w N as LE n Y ot — in Pa sis rlia a men at par ty t to the tripartite treaty, the time the qua druple trtaty was effected. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—Our 'so-called in terference with the Spanish Government was merely connected with our anxiety to uphold a constitutional Government. When the Noble Lord makes a compari son between the two countries, and says, .•` what would be thought here if her Majesty was advised by the Spa nish Minister to change her Government, or to take certain steps which were declared by him to be neces sary for the peace of the country?"—the Noble Lord• should recollect that there was no such parallel in the case; fur, as regards Spain, we were in the situation of having not only been invited, but actually called upon to eive our advice, and it was to that advice that Spain was mainly indebted for-the establishment of a free govern ment —(Hear.) I again say that there is nothing in these instructions showing anything like a spirit of direct in terference, or indicating any hostile intentions. On the contrary, it is obvious that the advice there tendered proceeded from an intimate and sincere conviction that the course suggested would be the best far Spain herself , o pursue; an advice, however, as appears by the papers, which Span was at perfect liberty to adopt nr reject. Trier.- are some points in respect to which I think the Noble Lord might have spared his observat ons, as they were not directly connected with the subject immedi ately before us. There is, how, ver, one point for re terring to which I ought to feel indebted to the Noble Lord, inasmuch as it affords me the opportunity of giving to the statement connected with it a distinct denial —I mean the supposition which the Noble Lord scarcely permitted himself to indulge in, that Mr. Bulwer had, previous to lift' communicating the note in question to the Spanish Government, caused that note, or the sub- Aatice of it, to be printed in a Spanish newspaper. Now, the only fact that can be alleged in support of this supposition is this:—There was a paragraph in the paper in question, intimating to the Spanish Govern ment that the British Government had expressed cer tain opinions in respect to the state of that country. At the time this paragraph appeared the note in ques tion had not been de.ermined on nor written ; and I am distinctly authorised by a statement of Mr. Bulwer himself to declare that at the time there was no inten tion of writing that note; and that the assertion of the paper was merely one of those assumptions Which, whether they be right or wrong, newspapers of all countries occasionally indulge in. —(Hear, bear.) There was no foundation at the time for this statement, which by mere accident anticipated in some respect what actually occurred. There is no doubt if Mr. Bulwer had in rho grin- iWL UiaJ eu hius he iv vula liar. but is guilty of the grossest of all improprieties, not so much as regarded the person for whom the note was intended, but in reference to the country which he represented. In justice, then, to Mr. Bulwer, I can assure your Lord ships that he had made no such communication, and I be lieve by this time the Duke de Sotomayor himself is fully convinced of the falsehood of this statement, inas much as I understand Mr. Bulwer has recently re ceived a letter from him, acquitting him of any such • misconduct. A rumour has, however, undoubetly ex isted, which has reached the ears of the Noble Lord, and has been circulated by the press of this country, as well as • elsewhere, giving currency to this charge. In the same way was it a short time ago confidently asserted that two members of an illustrious family, though entitled to more consideration from their misfortunes, had been obliged to leave this country suddenly on account of the expressed wish of the Sovereign of this country, under the a ivice of my Noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. Now I desire to take this oppor tunity of saying, that no such disrespect was ever in- I tended or expressed—no such disrespect was ever shown. My Noble Friend had no opportunity, if he were even inclined, to give her Majesty any such advice. Her Majesty, in the exercise of her charac teristic generosity of feeling which belongs to her at all times, of which so many persons illustrious by their position and character have been induced to par take, had manifested to these two illustrious individuals I nothing but sentiments of generous feeling and hospitali- y. —(Hear, hear.) It did so happen that the Duke and I Dwhess tie Montpensitr, who had previously been re siding with r Majesty, and had experienced her kind attentions, did omit a compliance with the ettqut tte usual on such occasions. and, without any previous no ice to her Majesty of their intention, took their departure from this country. Under the circumstances of their approaching departure or stay it was natural that upon such an occasion, and on such an interview, she should • be accompanied or attended by his Roy al Highness Prince Albert, or the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, or both, and to my knowledge the Secretary of State was at his own house ready to repair immediately to the palace. Lord S TAN LEY here interrupted the Noble Mar quis, for the purpose of ohs.-rvitig, that in no part of his observations had he adverted in any way to the subject to wiich the Noble L- rd was now referring. 1k had alluded to a rumour that objections had been taken to thou Duke and Duchess of li.aitpensier going directly from this c.,untry to Spain, but he had in no way ad verted to the circumstance the Noble Lord was now re ferring to. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was glad to hear the Noble Lord's statement; but the Noble Lord must be aware that the r e p ort i n quest i on h a d b een ver y induz triously circul a ted, an d h e (L or d L ins d owne ) had thought it only rig ht and proper to take the earliest I pportunity that a pp eare d to t ti er o f moat di st i nct l y and emphatically declaring that no disrespect had been in ended, and that no disrespect had been shown. With reesrd to the lust stieg4tion referred to by the Noble Lord, that mob,jgetions had been made to the Duke p u e r nsier abnAdiebviu•etehetlof rumour rested rest g ed oiu o g n at a °" l e ik t e o Spain , authority'. or 1 t h y e . t u n l a d tte n r o s w in rodu, cei for one moment only, to Lord policy other ii e w o a i d nto ssid th t e hat N a ob p l r e ine L ip o i r e d o 's t L . anrshdepo e w N r n v o a ) b d l e e t d el t t h t e h at interference seech i s of the Government. He was an unjust charge, but at the same time he must express his opinion that, l o a f , the world was . icl not to shrink where the preservation of the concerned, it was the duty ot pe E a n ce from the responsibilities of interference 4 , h and of this he was sure, that his Noble Friend at the affairs had often been the means of delayingwesardsaonfdh.pfourtetiigung an end to those disputes, differences, and pervaded parts of Europe. He might refer towevieerhynoonwe [ of those Italian sovereigns to whom the Noble Lord h a d I referred, and who would bear willing testimony to the value of the advice his Noble Friend had given on fre quent occasions, and to its importance in preventing out breaks and disturbances between nations having adverse and conflicting interests. The mediation of England had been frequently offered, and was frequently sought for, and be trusted as lung as England maintained her posi tion among nations her influence would be exerted for the promotion of those great principles which she had laid down as her system of policy and action. Beyond the limits of legitimate interference he hoped and be lieved she would never go. Lord BROUGHAM rejoiced this motion had been brought forward, because it had g iven her Majesty's Government an opportunity of ex p lainin g what the facts were. The omission of the works which opened the dispatch gave a perfectly different aspect to the whole affair, and entirely concluded the question, as far as her Majesty's Government were concerned, and only left them to regret that Mr. Bulwer had, with singular Indis e,f"ton, laid the dispatch bodily before the Du ke de ,-, ,tomayor, instead of taking an opportunity of con ,v,,,vrt.iin.f caludy with him on the sutject. Fur his b y"" W 55 %Li t b r u ie t i _ nv p „r art, he saw no objection to giving friendly advice, ately adrhini,, , er u d to a Government situated as tim w ti t ,e rd re s . , w : e i r f e a t t i t m o e p s pi , a r n tu d ni s r e y as o t ff 'n e s rs' f ' " w r. e a r l e l nut to be taken t paper,. wdt,,,, and mean "if you have a sheet of white Lot d ): a teaspoonful of i.,k."—(Laughter.) Even i France erston had, More the late untoward ever t % f io ,n d riieug t ested to th e Marquis of Nor manby to advi se th e rtnch Government on their pro ceedings, he applauded hire, ind g r og imotticigh.aTa)veshcooutildsidtaedve him gr theeatly THE SUN, LONDON; friend of peace, of freedom, and above all the friend of France. And if this might be done with France how much more reason must there be for giving such advice as a nation with whi c h our re l at i ons were respected eresdiffer S e pin, n a t. With all respect fur his'friends in the Provisional Government in Paris, he must say be thought that they were highly culpable for permitting the publication of a falsified document. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—It appeared in an opposition paper. Lord BROUGHAM—Oh! then that entirely, exone rated the Provisional Government. The Noble Lord went on to complain that dispatches appeared in the newspapers before they reached the Government to which they were directed. If their lordships compared the London newspapers of July, 1846, they would find that a most important and confidential communication, on a subject ot the most delicate nature, appeared in them before they reached the Spanish Government The dispatch to which he alluded had never been published in Madrid; and it was clear, therefore, that it wits sent from Madrid to London. lie thought that such a proceed • ing was most improper. With respect to the honour which had been conferred on Mr. Buiwer, he would say nothing becduse he was aware that it was in'ended to bestow it before the recent transactions in Spain had occurred. However, if b e h a d to advise his Noble- Friend at the head ot Foreign Affairs, he would recom mend to him to separate by a few months the confer. ring of that distinction and the commission of one of the greatest diplomatic blunders that ever occurred. He begged also to state that he entirely disapproved of the introduction of such distinctions into the social system of this country. While Spaniards, Frenchmen, Ger ofm p a a ns. pea an ri d n l:lians of the least distincti o n w ere d es ir ous in public with some ribbon or other deco. ration, the absence of such paltry honours was the dis tinction of Englishmen. He doubted whether the Pro visional Government would find it as easy to put down the desire for such distinctions as they had found it to put down the monarchy and the aristocracy. He believed that titles of nobility were as much in use in France as ever, notwithstanding the efforts to abolish them. In a journey of 600 miles, from the Var to the Seine, one of the only two carriages he met with was occupied by General Thiard, the Ambassador of the French Republic to Switzerland, but although the tricolor was waving from . the coach window, he was called Count at every station and ins on the road.—(Laughter.) Lord STANLEY withdrew his motion, and • The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then laid on the table the papers which bad been referred to. JEWS BILL. _ The discussion on the second reading of this Bill was fixed for Monday, the 22d. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 5. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed:— Birkenhead Duck Company 13i1L East Indian Railway Company Incorporation BilL Leishman's Estate (Govan Glebe Felling) Bill. Penzance Waterworks L On the ion of the QUEENSFERRY motionfur thefu P r A th S e S r A c G on E sid ß er l a L , report upor this Bill, Mr. BERNAL cane{ the attention of the House to the fact that a manuscript clause, giving most extensive powers, had been inserted in the -M -in Committee, contrary to the standing orders of. the House, which would have a most unjust and oppressive effect upon all ressels coming into the harbour. Mr. R. YORKE said that, as one of the members of the Committee, he was not aware that he was acting contrary to the usual course by allowing the insertion of the clause. After a few words from the Lord Advocate, Sir W. Heatheote, and Mr. Gibson Craig, the motion was with drawn, and the further consideration of the report ' ordered fur Tuesday next. The reports upon the National Monument of Scotland Amendment Bitl , and the Lambeth Waterworks Bill, were further considered and agreed to. Mr. MUNTZ presented a petition from a Mr. Thomas Adams, tin merly a member of the House. in which he stated that the French R.-volutions of 1830 and 1848, were caused almost entirely by the pressure tit great distress upon the inhabitants, which 'dis tress was mainly attributable to the bad arid faulty state of the monetary laws, and that ensiles X. and Louis Philippe, instead of exa mining into the distress of the people, pursued a despotic and tyrannous policy. He, therefore, warned the House of their danger, and prayed for the adoption of some measures more consistent with the rights and interests of the people* than had been adopted for the last thirty years. Petitions were also presented by Mr. WILLIAMS, from the Mayor and Corporotion of the Borough of Macclesfield, against the Health of Towns Bill ; Mr. RUFFORD from Worcester to a similar effect; Sir H INGLIS from thi churchwardens of St. Mary's, Battersea, in favour of some comprehensive measure un the subject of heali.h of towns ; Sir W. HEATHCOTE, from the Mayor and Cor poration of the borough of Basingstoke against that portion of the Public Health Bill establishing a central board of officer 4 for carrying out the provisions of the Bill; Mr. FERGUS, from Fife, prii)ing for the repeal of the Game-laws, and for the adoption of some measure to enable Scottish congregations to obtain sites fur building churches; Sir E. FILMER, from the Mayor and Corporation of Gravesend against the Public Health Bill ;. ..11.14.rnr0.r. Irvvvy, ;Ir. 4....n.11. Of ;he Health of Timms Bill. Mr. HILDYARD, from Whitehaven, praying the House to restrain or prohibit the sale of intoxicating liquors upon Sundays, and also a petition in favour ut the abolition of solicitors' certificate duty; Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD, in favour of the principles embodied in the People's Charter; Sir H. HALFORD, from seven societies of Odd Fel lows, praying that the same protection might be afforded to them as to other benefit societies. Mr. Alderman SIDNEY presented a petition from Rothei tithe in fAvour of the Health of Towns Bill. Mr. W. MILES presented a petition from a place in Somersetshire against the Diplomatic Relations with Rome Bill. Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from Marsdon, in Yoikshire, aLainst the sale of spirits on Sunday. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Forfar against the Law of Entail (Scotland) Bill. Mr. MACKINNON presented petitions from White chapel, St. Pancras, and Hoxton in favour of the Health of Towns Bill. FRIENDLY SOCIETIES. Mr. F. O'CONNOR gave notice or his intention, on Monday the 15th instant, to move the second reading of the Friendly Societies' Bill. AMERICAN POSTAGE. Mr. HUME gave notice of his intention, on Tuesday next. to move for ccpies of the correspondence between this country and the United States, with respect to the postage arrangements. GUIANA AND TRINIDAD. On the motion of Mr. HUME the following address was are d to:—Addrtss for copis , s or exti acts of dt%- patches trot]) Lord Sianley, Mr. Secretary Gladstoni , and Earl Grey, in 1844, and in any subsi quent years, authorising the expenditure of 166.0001. for Coolies and other expenses for Guiana and Trinidad; and also, an estimate ut the further expenditure sanctioned by the Colonial-44u., for similar services, as stated in Mr. Elliott's lettet of the sth day of April, 1848, to C. E. Trevelyan, Esq. Mr. HUME also moved f.r a tabular abstract of the totals in each year of the increase and diminution Which has taken place in the number of appointments, and the amount of salaries, in all public offices and departinfnts. since the passing of the Act 4 and 5, William IV. c. 24, so as to show the difference in each if these years of increase and of diminution of persons and of salaries, agreeably to the Act.—Agreed to. FREE TRA - DE IN INDIA. Mr. RICARDO, seeing the Right Honourable Baron« t the Secretary for the Board ot Control in his place, wished to ask him a question with reference to an Act ot the Governor-Gtnertil of India. The Hou,e was aware that hitherto all goods introduced in the ports ot India in British bottoms stood upon more tavourable tooting then the commodities brought. into India by foreign ships. He understood that the Governor. General of India had passed an Act placing both British and foreign ships upon the same footing, and he wished to know from the Right Honourable Baronet ss nether this inforination was correct, and it so whether he had any objection to lay the Act upon the table of the House. Sir J. C. HOBIIOUSE said, in answer to the ques tion of the Hon. Gentleman, he had to state that the in formation the Hon. Gentleman had received was strictly correct. The Act was passed in accordance with the instructions sent out from the Home Government, and he could have no objection to lay it upon the table of the House. lie would take that opportunity of stating that the Governor Genaral had done away with the coast duties, and the reason for his doing so was this:— The duties by land had previously been abolished, and it was therefore thought expedient not to continue the Act of 1839, which imposed duties upon foreign coasting vessels in favour of British bottoms. The Go vernor-General had now abolished all differential duties, and be would take care that the Act by which they were abolished should be laid upon the table of the . House. Lord G. BENTINCK said the House would see that under the Act all goods from Singapore would come into India free of duty. The House was, no doubt, aware that Singapore was a free port, and that the Act had been so learned that no exception had been made against the goods landeu at Singapore, re-shipped, and then imported into India. An impression consequently prevailed, that any goods landed at Singapore and re• shipped could enter any port in India free from all duties. He begged leave, therefore, to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether this impression on the public mind be or be not correct, and if it be correct, whether any instructions to that effect went out from this country, or whether it had arisen through some oversight or mistake on the part of the Governor-General of India. Sir J. C. HOBIIOUSE said the matter had not es caped his observation, and he had applied to the India Board for information on the subject. He had no doubt, however, that the exception of the port of Singapore in the Act arose from an oversight. Mr. ROBINSON wished to know whether the Act could come into operation without receiving the sanction of the Home Government. si r J. C. IIOBHOUSE reminded the Honourable. G ent l e man that it had alteady received the sanction of t it h e I w n a d s i A P B a s o s a e rd in cCti(7l,l MISSION. p th u e rs id u .ainthcee of ti):l'setrrnuna tnt. s i s c e a n s t m o u u c t h by es appeared at the table, and summo n Ro al Assent given by Coln-House or Peers, to hear the y Sir AUGUSTUS CLIFF ORD, the UshedertohfethHe6Bultuecktoß;hide, mistio to seyersl Bills; On the return of the SPEAKER he enumerated the Bills (for which see Lords' repo r t). , POOR. LAW UNIONS—AUDI LING ArCOUNTS . Mr. BANKES presented a petition numerously signed by the guardians and officers of several unions in Dorset, stating that the present system of auditing accounts io poor law unions was productive of great expense, delay, and inconvenience, and praying the House to devise a remedy. PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. Mr. URQUHART presedted a petition against this Bill, but particularly against those clauses which prevent public bodies from managing their own aff4irs. Sir W. CLAY presented a petition against this Bill, particularly its centralization principle. Lord \I ORPETH presented several petitions in favoilr of the Bill. CEYLON. Mr. HUME gave notice that on Monday he should ask the Right Hon. Baronet the President of the Board Of Control whether any orders had been sent to Ceylon, like those sent to tither parts of ludia, respecting dutics on impurts.and on shipping. ADJOURNMENT" OF THE HOUSE. On the- motion of Mr. PARKER. the House was ordered to adjourn at its rising until Alonday. • INDIAN MAIL. In answer to a question put oy Mr. MCGREGOR, Mr. WARD said that it was intended to make an alteration in the existing arralgements, and adopt the route by Marseilles and Alexandria. ALIEN BILL . On the motion of Sir G. GREY, the House went into Committee on the Alien Bill. Upon clause 1 t.eing proposed, Mr. HUME proposed to add the words, " and upon oath." Sir GEORGE GREY said that the adoption of such words would have the Effect of embarrassing the Go vernment. Mr. HUME thought it a monstrous thing that thf liberties 01 the people should be thus trifled with, ar 4 should most certainly persist in his motion. Lord D. STUART moved the amendment of wWh he had given notice, to sub s tit u t e tor' information glen in writing" the words " from d ec l arat i ons l a id befor ellem in writing, under 5 and 6 William IV., cap. 62. In moving this - amendment, he begged it to be undeotood, that- he still entertained • the greatest objection to the measure, thinking it most unnecessary. Sir G. GREY Could not adopt the amendmel of the Noble Lord, but had no objection to comer; to the amendment of the Hon. Member for D at iam (Mr. Granger). Lord DUDLEY STUART, after a fe w cords froth Dr. Bowring, withdrew his amendment, ani Mr. GRANGER then moved his amencrnent to the first clause, to insert the words " by an. person sub scribing his or her name and address therto." The amendment was agreed to, and Mr. HUME proposed to add the word, " upon oath, or by affirmation." • The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objezted to the addi. tion proposed by Mr. flume, which tias ultimately with. drawn. Mr. GRANGER then proposei to insert the follow ing proviso at the end of close one:—" Provided always, and be it enacted, that if any peison shall knowingly and maliciously give any such information as aforesaid, of aid concerning any such alien, which shall be false in sooe material part thereof. every such person shalt be guilty of a anidemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall, at the discretion of the Court, be liable to be imprisoned for any time not ex ceeding three months." Mr. HUME moved the insertion of the following words, " provided always, that a copy of every such or der shall be immediately served on the alien or alienist, ordered to depart, and shall be accompanied by a copy of the information in writing, and the name of the in former." Sir GEORGE GREY said he did not see any neces shy of inserting these words. Mr. HU ME said there was every necessity, and in his opinion the paragraph ought to come before the amendment of Mr. Granger. This Bill as it stood was simply an encouragement of the spy system. It encouraged people to give information in secret that they dare not publicly disclose, and he certainly pi o posed the insertion. 01 these words to vitiate that prtn ciPle. , Lord DUDLEY STUART supported the motion for the insertion. of the words. A man might be commit ting an offence without being aware of it it this 'notion were not- agreed -to -; for if an alien had not an opportunity of seeing the Gazette, he might remain in the country and render himself liable to thrown into prison. Was this to be tolerated in a free country ? • He hoped not, - and if Government would give the question their dispassionate considera tion, he was sure they would at once accede to the motion of the Honourable Gentleman, the Member for Montrose. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Noble Lord had given au exaggerated version cf this portion of the Bill. Be contended that it would be all but impossible for the Government to serve the order upon the parties, as their movements would, in all cases of dangerous conspiracy, be of a private and wealthy nature. Mr. HUME thought that the Bill as it now stood gave powers - as monstrous . . as those possessed by the old French Government under the system of lettres dc cachet. Sir G. GREY said that this Bill would not in the least degree interfere 'with the rights and privileges given -to a ll the people, whether foreigners or not, of this country, by virtue of the Habeas Corpus Act. ssid, that. under this Act, a person nigh. I,„hen and expelled from the country in rive or six hours; and where , then was the use of the Habeas Corpus Act i ? The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said that a remedy for that evil would be found in the Bill itself, as if the party alleged any r.qssou why he should not be sent out of the country, be would nut be so sent until his case had been tully . heaiil and decided. m ess ia:MUNTZ and GIUNGER severally supported the amendment. ___ Sir G. GREY said that if Hon. Members could supply the Government with lists of the aliens whom it might be necessary to remove, they should all be served with notice. _ _ ---- . Mr. HUME said the Right Hon. Baronet's proposition was the must iniquitous b e hid ever k nown . —(A l augh.) Everything he (Mr. Hume) . had beard confirmed him in the l p h. Committee of pres s i ng h is a mendment. divided, w h en t h e num b ers were — For the amendment 34 _ Against it Majority —l24 Mr. GRANGER, then proposed the following pro person shall knowingly and be it enacted, that if any alway s: I%d maliciously give any such .aloresaid, of and concerning any such a ivil l i i si i r: 7 — ::li iichn P rovide das shall ch person sh a ll b e gu il ty o f a m i sdemeanour, and e b v ei e n r g y, c a o u nvicted thereof shall, at the discretion of th' Court, be impri s oned for any time nut ex ceeding three - months." The ikT liable t'o I t N to E y . GENERAL opposed the proviso. The H o use having n egat i ve d the propos i t i on to pu bl ish the name of the inform e r, an y p rov i s i on f or hi s punish ment would be iheltss. The Committee divided, when there appeared Fur the Pruviso 33 .Against it............ aj °city The clause was then agreed to. Clause 2 was agreed to without discussion. On clause 3, Lord D. S I'UART thought it hard that aliens should in ad cases be, sent back to their own country. lie tbOught that, leaving the country, they should have per mission to gu where they pleased. His Lard-hip moved the insertion of words to that effect, but subsequently withdrew his amendment. Mr. COCKBURN proposed to add a proviso, re quiring the Lords of the Privy Council to cause to be delivered to the alien in writing a general summary of the matters charged against him and to allow reasonable time f or his defence; and that, at his request, they • should summon witnesses to be examined on osth in the case. Unless some such provision were made, the oppeoi given by the Bill would be wholly inefficacious, and an alien might, without any fault of his own, at the instiga tion of some private enemy, be compelled to leave tne country. The ATTORNEY -GENERAL thought such an in quiry as his Honourable and Learned Friend proposed wouid give. the matter the form of a judicial proceeding, which was not the intention of the Bill. If his Hon. -and Learned Friend, however, pec.iated in the amend ment, he saw no serious objection to it. After a short conversation the proviso was adopted, and the clause, as amended, agreed to. On clause 4, Lord O. STUART moved to substitute " one" for "seven " years as the period within which aliens, having resided iu.this.country, should be liable to the operation of the Bill. Sir G. GRLY•could not agree to the amendment pro posed; but as Government had no wish to take larger powers than were in their opinion necessary, he was willing to substitute "three" for "seven" years. Mr. E W ART apprehended that the alleged necessity for the Bill arose entirely from the events of the last few. mouths.—(Hear, hear.) • Tf so, where was - the titre in ext en di ng t h e o p e ration of the Bill to foreigners who had been i n thi s cou ntry more than a year, and whose residence here could have nothing to do with those to ou r go v ernment , or with any view to pr o • plots. events ? Mr., BRIGHT a lso remarked that those foreigners, whose,r es id encs h ere d a ted more than a year back could not possibly b e p erso ns who bad come with any hostile intentions pagate th e princi ples which bad lately obtained in som e other cou ntr i es . Lord J. RU SS EL L—Bat there are persons engaged inassassination Mr. BRIGHT could not understand what the Govern ment meant by these mysterious hints about plots. It they had other reasons to justify this Bill than those they had given they should state them.—(Hear, hear.) In Manchester and Liverpool, and nu doubt in other trading towns, there were many foreigners, whose onl) object was commerce, and who. , e residence here was ad vantageous to us, lie knew not why Parliament should give powers to th e Government to compel all such per sons as had not been here more than three years to leave the country at the instigation of any man who, for purporses of his own, might denounce them.— (Hear, hear.) appeared to him that Government wer e cherishing a suspicion of foreigners unworthy of this country.—(Cheers.) Mr .R. YOIthE reminded the Hon. Member for Man chester that the bill would not apply to persons engaged in commerce, but to those only whose object was to in cite to interference with the established institutions of the country and the disturbance of the public peace. - lir. MUNTZ observed that the Hon. Member lei York seemed himself to forget that it. was possible for a roan to be denounced' without being criminal.. Merit wi 3 no ground for the Bill - at and - he wad almost S E vENI.ISG, M AIt 6, 1848. ashamed to call hnself an Englishman if it was to be supposed that a iff paltry foreign blackguards might succeed in overttming all our instittvions unless the Government had ewer to send them out of the country. the whole proceeing was a disgrace to the Ministers and to the countr)—(Cheers.) Mr. HILDYAID said, the fear was not that any number of foreignrs residing here could overturn the Government, but he mischief that their machiaations might produce to - or own fellow-subjects. Englishmen bad never bad rectarse, even in periods of tPe greatest excitement, to hose practices which had dis graded some other countries, and he hord they never would. There vere. however, p r ies in these kingdoms now, he vas very sorry to nay, who would se most abominable . not hesitate to iocit the pe o ple to r p.oreigners who had been aces—as throwing vitriol in the aces of the troops— ( to r ach he alluded as having ( Hear ) —and it was 3 ossibla tha n . corr , here and endeav o ur to i t .- engaged in the prat . morbid sen s ibility on t h e part occurred abroad, duce peop l e to f ol l ow t h o lexarnple. Should it happen °loud of any of t h e peop l e s h ou ld that, inconsequence of uld, as a Memb er o f t h at L eg i s l a - Of tlie Legislature tit have to be stied, ashamed of himself t h an h e s h ou ld titre; be much rn.vr ifow be for havito voted for this Bill. Mr. Hu y /E nid that no foreigner would be permitted, to advise a -nsturbancien'Otfhitt country, un l t e r e y . , to lr r a a n i ) s , e m h a is nvoiceven tured in any public. 4 " etin g to r" so he would assuredly be turned out He feared tt ,6 under. this Bill persons who sought refuge in this coe try from p o liti ca l p‘ rs e cut i on at h ome m i ght. at the in agatlon of their enemies, be compelled to return to a tare where, perh a p s , th e i r li ves wou ld b e f or f e i te d . _ r iedr.) The Bill was a disgrace to its authors. He . h ldd support the, substitution of "one" year for the , fee proptie , l by the I-14 inie Secretary. Mr. Alderman SIDNEY believed, had the 10th of April passed over previous to the introduction of the measure, they would never have heard of it. He could (peak, 'its a 'magistrate, that nothing bad come to his knowledge to afford the 'slightest justification for such a Bill. • . . Lord D. STUART said the Noble Lord had that night stated incidentally what had never been stated before, that there were persons in this country plotting assassination.— (No.) Lord J. RUSSELL explained that his observation was in answer to the remark of the Hon. Member for Manchester, that all foreigners who had come here pre vious to the late French revolution had come for the purposes of trade. Mr. BRIG LIT—Or as refugees. Lord J. RUSSELL had interrupted' the Hon. Mem. ber to say tfoit persons were here before that time who had been engaged in assassination plots, and had been compelled to leave their own country in consequence, and that such persons might become dangerous here Lord D. STUART was glad to hear this explanation, for he and others had understood the Noble Lord to say that there were foreigners in this country plotting assassination. He would not press his amendment to a division. The alteration proposed by Sir G. Grey was then made, and the clause as altered passed. The remaining clauses were also agreed to. Mr. URQUHAR I` proposed the following clauses, enacting— " That when and so often as the powers given by this Act shall be put into execution there shall be laid before Parliament, without unnecessary delay, a copy or copies of all informations upon which orders shall have been issued in accordance with this Act ; together with a statement of all proceedings which may have been taken in respect to any alien or aliens against whom the same may halve been put in force. " And that, in till cases where naturalisation has the effect of depriving alien friends of any of their civil rights in their own country, this Act shall be inopera tive, provided that such alien friends, at the time of their residence in Englind, are engaged in commerce." Sir G. GREY-opposed the first, stating that Govern ment would, in ell cases, be responsible to Pardatuent and would produce all the information upon any case required. With ,regard to the second, he did not under stand what was meant by "alien frie-nds ;" but as the Bill stood naturalised foreigners would nut be included in its operation. Mr. UIiQUHART explained that he used the word " friends" as- distinguished from " enemies." In some cases, as in those of French and American citizens, they could not be naturalised here without forfeiting all .heir rights of citizenship in their own country. It was to such parties that this clause was intended to apply. The A r I'ORNEY GENERAL could not consent to a clause which would have the effect or rendering,the Bill in , perative in respect to all French or American citizens aho might be engaged in commerce, however dangerous their residence here might be. If their resi dence was. not dangerous to the peace of the country they would not be removed. After a few words from Lord D. STUART in favour of the clauses they were put and negatived without a division; and the preamble having been agreed to, the House resumed, and the Bill, with amendments, was or dered to be reported. character, he ought long since to have fully informed the nation on the subject. This Bill was unlike any pravieus legislat ve measure ever iiitroduced into this House—it much more resembled a Ru,sian uka,e; and if-the Government should be so ill advised and so infa tuated as to press it, he hoped there would arise (and he believed it would arise) such an opposition as would compel them to retrace their steps. Before ho Con cluded he must complain of a publication emanating from the snb-committee of the Health of Towns Asso ciation, which had been circulated among Members of the House, in order to facilitate the carrying of the Bill. That publication contained calumnies the most foul, statements the most unfounded, language the most unseemly, and propositions the most absurd. Almost every local board in the country had been stabb-d in the dark by these anon) mous traducers (tor the Hanes of the sub-committee were not appended to the publication); and he called upon the many philan thropic metubers of the association to disclaim the work and to withdraw themselves from it. In the name of the coustituenctra (.t England he called upon the House not to pass the Bill, but to postpone it for a few weeks, arid he pledged himself to bring in a measure which would meet every object without any objectionable centralising clause. He denied the necessity of any second Somerset house authority He held that this measure would lead to endless jobbing, and would be to the Government a temptation against which their integrity would net be proof, and would be to the liberties of the people a blow against which their independence would not bear up. He should take every means in his power to obstruct the passage of the Bill through the House, and with this view he now moved, as an amendment, that the Bill be cow • mated this day six months. Mr. BANKES seconded the amendment, on the ground that the preamble contained provisions which actually exempted the whole of the city of London; and,by implies tion, a part of the metropolitan district, from the operation of the Bill. He would not give his consent to a Bill so framed. He was aware that those who hail framed this measure knew that it contained objectionable clauses, to which the attention of the Government had been called by the authorities of the city of London; and though hi. would not impute to the Noble Lord who represeeted that City an undue partiality to his constituents, yet he would say the Noble Lord's constituents had no greater right to his especiel attention than had his (Mr. Brake's) constituents or those of the Hon. Member who had brought forward this amendment.—(Hear, hear.) With the Noble Lord all constituencies ought to stand on the same footing.—(Bear, hear.) If the sill was objection • able to the citizens of London, it was equally objection • able to the towns in the county he (Mr. Bailees) repre sented; and until there should be presented a Bill which would be good for all constituencies, he should refuse to go into Committee. To do so with the present Bill would be an idle waste of time. Those who sat on his (Mr. Bankes's) side of the House had often been charged by the Government with wasting the time of the House; but it was the Government that caused it by the form in which they presented and brought forward their measures, to the principles of which both sides agreed. If then they prepared Bills in such a shape, how dared the Government charge him and those who acted with him with delaying the reme• dial measures propounded by the Government ? They themselves created the delay. Look, for instance, at the present Bill. The Government had actually been com pelled to double the letters of the alphabet in order to designate the number of the clauses they themselves thought necessary as amendments to a measure origi nally brought forward fourteen months ago. It would be in vain to go into Committee on such a Bill. %If itli such a preamble the Bill could not possibly pass. It would inevitably be thrown out at last, and then its op ponents would be taunted with wasting the public time. London and the metropolitan districts required a Said Lary provision mare than any other part of the kingdom. Look at the chimneys rising around, overtopping the towers of the new houses, and destroying all vegetation in their neighbourhood.—(Hear.) Was it not idle., then. to talk of sanitary improvement if these things were overlooked ? Even the very air which they, the sena tors of the kingdom, had to breathe, was tainted in the way he had described, and no remedy was proposed for it.—(Hear, and a laugh ) The Honourable Mover of the amendment was not quite correct in stating that this measure was woolly unprecedented. Precedents miato be found in the time of the Commonwealth, when every thing was referred to commissions and commissioners; hut these were not precedents which ought to be fol lowed in the present day. He would willingly delegate to the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests ail the powers he was inclined to take upon himself; but would not consent to the appointment of a host of ir reaponaible commissioners, of whom the House knew nothing. lie had the fullest confidence in the unite peached honour of the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) Let all places in.the kingdom be included in this Bill, under one responsible head, and then there would b , no dissatisfaction. The kingdom at large never would he, nor ought to be, satisfied with the partial tneasur now proposed; the commissioners to be appointed under it would become generally unpopular, and befor« two years had passed the repeal of the Bill would h«- demanded. The distrust which it implied of local au • thority was entirely undeserved; they ought only to be subjected to the imperial supervision of the Govern ment, which would be as effectual in that case as in that of the supervision exercised over the magistracy by the Right Hon. the Home Secretary—a supervision which was not less effectual from the rare occasions on which it I was exercised. 'I he delay now proposed would be an advantage it the Bill was thereby rendered less objec tionable. was most important that the rate-payers themselves, whether in parishes, townships. or other boundaries, should have the power of originating sanitary pry ed " ings under this Act. That principle had work. d el . ' tremely well in the Inclosure Act, and he had hc p ed would have been adopted in the present measure. An° - ther objectionable point was that power should be given , not only to repeal all the local Acts, but to revive such of their provisions as were desirable. This power, in; vested in the Privy Council, was most unconstitutional; —(Hear, hear.) As the Bill stood, any fifty inh abita g householder s , w ith ou t any limitation of boundary, olio„, originate pr o ceedin g s under the Bill, and migh t, if thFl thought proper, i nc l u de the whole kingdom in one die t trict. This plan could not work satisfactorily. Unless the Noble Lord would in Committee give tip, t h a t enor to moue mass of patronage which the Bill would gi" Government, by abandoneig the Cumneissioners, he oppose the Bill going into Committee; for he looked wale the greatest j,ilousy on this attempt, after the Govern went had !sot hold of all the Lawyers to extend their ea' ironage to the , rector:.—(Laught,r.) - fallen Sir 11. VERNEY concurred in much that hAd from the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, but 'he cen f511 e:.- e tiered that the practical objections to the measure sere quite susceptible of being removed in Cernmittee• certainly it would be necessary to modify the propose" centralization to a very material extent. nag' Mr. Fazitoy was quite as sensible as any ge man present of the numerous glaring defects of the tee _ sure, but, at the some time, he thought it Mos t cons : - tent with his duty to vote for its committal. It was g nerally admitted that some reform in our sanitary s y stein was neceseare, and he thought that the present, mes s n greatly amended, no doubt might meet the uckno wleege want. Mr. DIVETT had so decided an objection to the Pr ia ; ciple of the measure. that he could not sanct i o n its furtnhee progress. With all due re.pect for the Noble Lo rd al tot bead of the Woods and Forests Department, he d i " cs . consider him more especially with his infinite other se° r tions, at all the man who could properly carry out re h e at sure of this kind, and he was quite as convinced rs, the country at large would not submit to anearbitetir. system of centralisation placed in the hands of : ere Chadwick.—(Hear, hear.) It was his opinion that 1 1 0 was quite as much danger of jobbing under t en Rs , under local administration. The brothers, sons , n e P he sus . _ t and what not, of Cabinet Ministers had shown themes selves quite as disposed as other men to that species ee'y jobbing whi c h con s ist e d in g e tting h o ld of as much IT , os ) as possible for as little labour as possible.—(Het r es " e tbe lie denied that any genuine popul ar ity attached e e e t ole Bill.—(Hear.) It was quite manif es t that the e ` Viscount evinced no aptitude for thi s p ar ticular busirt;.- at all events, for after withdrawing. one Bill on t h i ! % J ed ject, by reaso n o f th e g e ne r a l outcr y aga i ns t it, " e vs . Introduced another which exhibited n o so rt of ieeP ru. went in principle, and little, if any, in detail. was 1 Viscount EBRINGTON contended that there - 00 general dem mil for the measure, and, in particular' the part of Exeter and other large towns. tbe Mr. H. DRUMMOND characterised the whole 7;oches case, got up by interested parties against the loCa l ge• throughout the country, us tull of the grossest eel o f rations. He had an entire objection to that 51°,06 centralisation which was so popular with the P A re „ s ed Government, and which, in his opinion, bad Prtee—to much of the evil which had manifested itself c lu st ure administration of the new p u or-l aw . The grand in the measure, in the eyes of gentlemen oa the s e:3 o e fermi benches, wa s its propos e d a ppointmente. s e ta nt half dozen commissioners, with secretaries, .assts ol,plif secretaries, and inspectors infinite, with indefirsier out of the consolidated fund,- and with unlimite dP t - ede' over cities (London) with cautious judgmenteacPileett (Elear)—towns and counties, streets, squares, anu atid Houses and cottages, chapels and churches, retesedsle oavments of all sorts, with powers, in a word, to ! l e s bf and make with everything and every body, unchec"ctod' all one but the Noble Viscount opposite and UT,' p coo; wick—an excellent protection for the country... „ 1 " 1 " . „ 0 t tended that all that was needed was the appointreeo ei a single efficient commissioner, under the direct ° , the the Home Secretary, for the purpose, of eieith i „ b e th e various towns throughout the country, and enforelee executioe of their duties by the local boards. o lot° Viseount MORPETH. hoped the House would ee s ly t° r Committee on the ill. He shouldpractical be quite jsi 150bsec 0e take into his consid ß eration ever,los, y tion that might he suggested. He would, for ' er r ueor t admit that he was by no means indisposed t° ea lloo• the discussion of the question propounded sta tion s °l 'ember as to the propriety of limiting t h e de- oe toe the commission. He was also quite consC i " S 4 many difficulties that surrounded the question ° be hid tary legislation; and he had adopted, as far as, b e es keen able to do so, the various suggestions tha t " a u nt/ . forwarded to him from different parts of the e ° t hat ile must take the present opportunity of deny l oti eri the powers which were sought fur the commis'' t> were of that arbi . rary character which bad been st d "uteri to theta. As to the powers g iven to the I t le of Privy Ccuncil with reterence to the control o! local boards, they were no more than what 'had t o r e e l:t i t ) ; c i b p e a e had the se tt ac I° o l pcsearnpcetrioantieedeinßriells.pecHteto the local acts Oro, moreover, to be able to assure the House that: b°, o o already been made aware of the fact that S 0/ body of the clergy had given their approbation t°oo, Bill proposed by her Majesty's Government. 'lne s ye a Member for Stafford opposed the Bill; but he he.lesiel th at th e H on . M em b er ' s feelings were not partiefr bit in by his constituents. Ho (Lord Morpeth) held l e as e nand a petition from the inhabitants of Stafford, t end plaining of the wretched sanitary state of that te4c l- ' fbs Nrn 3 ..g ne e isietie. int , .. - tcrenoc. Thi. esitl , 7D e r signed by all the clergy, all the medical profeseieet jes cept one, and all the members of the corporative. dbf proposed this Bill, however, not as one- supr rte n o - or ,loctors or clergymen, but as being essentially the roe man's Bill.—(llear, hear.) He wished to sleY joe' words flow on the met-vexed question of centralitisotose Amid here he would say that there was not in thetneesi it greater friend to a well-arranged municipal aIT s ieli government than he was. He knew hew he principle of local government and resP che ap d - were interwoven with our English neti ene fete d manners, and he had, thereture, alweYs, in favour of motions for the extension of d s e& cipal institutions. But this Bill went to. eXtef l 7. j et' powers not to destroy them. It would give powees;' a 0 0 ing, draining, and cleansing to 92 towns, whic h t : 1§„ l i such powers, at present, and would secure the re s , u which now had only divided or restricted poWe r 0 00 296 towns which had now no local Aets, and 15 5 co der which had only restricted powers, this Bill w oul d n tieg , 'till and complete means of sewage, cleansing, "1,0 and draining. But some central control wa s 0 tbi t tended. He had already explained his notions °. be" head, and had thought he had satisfied the 1 1 ° U : s e :I 1 1 -ince then, he had been assailed in many clu s : r 4le a tempting, as was alleged, to carry the Pr' s " - , ill' centralization too far. He had accordingly tra be ,oo o eis counsels men well acquainted with local r i e Ci f e and had determined on ventral control to this e'eespeeei power of revising the boundaries of &evicts, an ,000-1 in cases of dill . , renee, and a power of auditing cote 4. here disputes should arise. However, if a iii o otr ° s inittee objection should b e t a k en to t h e limited ay tlll ne proposed, he s h ou ld b e prepare d tc ) t h : - uost respectful att ent i on to any stioges",;:eoe: might be made. All us i on h a d b een ma d e to V"; emanating from the Health of Towns Coneneies`, ° 4 l o•lt ie d ' locument was anonym o u s , an d h e did notAeis's o allude to it. Hi s ohji ct was t o a d vanc e the e e o leei the people, not to fling f o ul water on those W s be ° ; differ with him in opinion. A great deal was tee cs he rights of Englishmen, but let them take 5- Let `, 1 , 1 ,f the lives of ar, hear.) tli""; douse recollect that while they were legislating' reser] ,ands were dying under the influence of o e r P e rift e ll wretched sewage and drainage; and let the erP PI, dill which he confidently asserted mi g ht be call: rslite tor protneting the health, the comfort, and th e of the people of England.—(Cheers.) f S e"e Mr. BUCK asserted that the i n h a bitants ' 3- t or t !' had spent 100,000/. on drainage, and were 0 % 0 tis ° , l ( tore, to be stigmatised with having neglected IoZ, tary condition of their town. He though s t ' t - eat questions should be left to local control, en" c` c t expenses of the country should not be increased i s e se e "; missions which, judging by experience, could ° Li fl o so ) ec waste and confusion. He should divide on ese r Y' tor the appointment of commis s i ons . big hl l Mr. 11. BERKELEY said th a t th e Bill eis s io ple .,6 " popular with hi s c o n s tit uen t s , an d th e only cae its °lcs ' was that the city of London was excluded ir,° °3 ,,' ration.—(flear, bear.) According to the eli° el3 , - 00„; before the Sanitary Commission there was 0 ° .i 0 titr e the kingdom in a worse state than the metroPoht.it eerf lle thought the House had a right to know w s b eitri the plans proposed fur the improvement of P e be e t c London. In his opinion London ought n ot ' t° , 4 Ott empted from the Act. Not only was its saa, ta s ete tied, but i's moral position also. lie should 'of going into Committee. e old ti ;;# Lord LINCOLN (amid cries of " Divid©) s "spetil t i e n - af have made an observation but for the last -1 0 0 0 'di reference to the metropolis. He was bound, in t,ho 11 4 and fairness, to state that he was one of thos e ' vised the exclusion of th e me t ro p o li s froln th e, beo o ,, Bill with a view to anoth er an d a m ore cotaP r tt alir, measure. With referen ce t o th e ques tion of of tion he should not go i n t o it now, for it did:l4j «r upon this stage, but h e s h ou ld be prep ared 1 0 ": 01 e it on a future occasi on . A t present h e s hould li t re') going into Committee. There was one other r t elocs e ; (Shouts of " Oh," amid w hi c h t h e N o ble Lord 1517 a e Mr. SPOONER, moved the adjournment o f L ee The House divided, when their appeared -es Ayes Noes °i t° Majority _se- le Colonel SIBTHeeRP then moved that t h e :. now adjourn. b AO° 0° Lord J. RUSSELL had hoped when the 0 ° sba S e n decided by a large majority to proceed with DI ,4, o . ffi ref r . Curther objection would be offered. .7d 0 ( 0 0 some Honourable Gentlemen opposite awPe e— w s s iec. is e mined to force the House to division after di ibe tn wi the question of adjorninent, rather than occug.oure of the House by dividing he would consent to au./ debate. IN The debate was accordingly adjourned. D e IP TOBAGO RELIEF AND IMAIGRATIOO. BRITISH GUIANA AND TR INIV use d The report of the Committee thereon Was r 1; 4 0. and leave to bring in a Bill on the subje ct was g The House adjourned at One o'clock. DIED. ,god lilt On the 30th ult., Mrs. Chappell, of the 111ino a ri rfif th e On the 30th ult., at Green-park, Bath, Oct eeri! of William Taswell, Esq. e s ol iblecits 00 1 On the 300 ult., at Cranbourne Lodge, essteseeee Middlesex, Mary, relict of the late Lietzt" - Bt Alexander Daniel. UjJiv DO London: Printed and Published by ikitiß e , p leo. 112, Strand, Printer, at 7 Ito Sun 0 h g e 00 0 Strand, in the Precinct of the 'Sayan t Walton, Oaturdaiy, May i, Ig4B. - • • Lv,,l J. 11TT531211.,T, .L-s O— rift,. Member who had last spoken had thought fit to have shown t, the House that a Bill fur the purposes of sanitary im provement ought to include the City of Lohdon and the whole of the metropolitan districts, the House would have been ready to list( n to any argument on that head. But the Hon. Member had addressed no argument whatever to the Hcuse—he had contented himself with an imputation —(Hear, hear.) It might he wise, ac cording to the precedent of the Bill introduced by the Noble Lord the Member for Falkirk (Lord Lincoln), t exempt the metropolis from the operation of ►uch ti Bill ; or it might be a better plan to introduce a Bill si milar to that of last year, including the whole of the me tropolis. The Hon. Gentleman might think one plat. better than the other, but he left all such reasons un touched, and thought it quite unnecessary to urge an) argument ; relying on the imputation that he (Lord John Russell) had abused his influence as a Member a the Government in favour of his constituents. Mr. BANKFS—I beg your pardon—l expressly ex eluded you from that charge. Lord J. RUSSELL—The Honourable Gentleman certainly said—" The Noble Lord had no right to see that the representations of his constituents were attended to while those of Members who represented other large cities and towns in the kingdom were disregarded." ' Mr. BANKES—I beg leave distinctly to state that I did not say any such thing, but I said the contrary. — (Sensation.) Lord J. RUSSELL—Certainly, what struck my ears was, that the representations of my constituents had been attended to; and that the representations of the Henourable Members for the towns in the county 0. Dorset, and of the Honourable Member for Stafford, ought to be equally attended to —(Cheera ) lam cer tainly very glad to hear that the Honourable Gentleman meant nothing of the kind.—(Clear, hear.) Mr BANKES (with great warmth)—l mean to say that I said nothing of the kind.— (Lauwhier.) Lord J. RUSSELL—If the Honourable Gentleman said nothing of the kind, then my earn entirely de ceived me.—(Hear, hear.) There were certain sen tences, which I imagined I had heard, which it seems have never been uttered.—(Cheers, and laugh ter.) However, although I may have entirely mistaken what my ears corive)ed to me, I do think I miy be justifii d—having been liable to many attacks in the course of last year to which I never replied—in stating what is the course I have taken, which has certainly net been a very active one upon this subject. I considered the question eenerally with my Noble Friend (Lord no pt•eth), last year ; and he said he had come to the deci sion that the whole of the metropolis ought to U included in the Bid. I was quite satisfied with that decision. After the Bill was brought in, some objections were made to that course. My Noble Friend reconsi dered the matter, with the persons whom he thought were best able to advise him. I desired him—which I am sure he was likely to do—to pay every attention in ail parts or the subject, to m tke the Bill operate the most beneficit.lly. The result was that he made many amend ments in the Bill, and did come to the determination to leave out the metropolis.—(hear, hear, skid laughter from the Opposition benches.) Now, a very few moment s ago I was told that there was no imputation against me. What am Ito under s t an d f rom that verb euiphatie " Hear, hear?"—(Cheers.) Is it meant to be insinuated, when I say that my Noble Friend told me that he had come to the determination to leave out the metropolis, that there must have been some occult in fluence behind—(No, no)—that there must have been some mystery or other in getting the metropolis left out, in which my constituents must have been concerned? I will state the only communication which I have had with any constituent of mine —certainly a very import ant person —upon this subject. Last autumn we had a good deal of consideration, along with the Lord Chan cellor as to what should be done respecting the metro politan commission orsesvers, and we found that the authority of the Crown enabled us to appoint a new commission, comprehending a great part of the metro polis, but that an Act of Parliament stood in the way of our comprehending the City of London. That Act re quired that a commission of sewers should act fair the City of London only ; and the Lord Chancellor had no authority in that respect. The Lord Mayor (he was the important constituent to whom I alluded just now) desired to see me, and wished to ask whether it was the intention of Government to include the City of London, by bringing in a Bill to repeal the Act referred to, and to include the City of London under the same commission of sewerage as the rest of the metropo lis ? I said certainly it was the intention of Govern ment to introduce a Bill for that purpose ; and he said Very well ; if Government have made up their minds to introduce such a Bill, all I can tell you is, that we of the City of London shall give it our most strenuous and determined opposition."—(Hear, hear.) That has been the only communication which I have bad with my con stituenis on the matter ; and if we have not persevered s toe o tt showed any e d in that plan of comprehending the Ci ty of London under the same sewerage commission, i icsiuny p , a I r t do my nutthinkn u it any base subserviency o (Cheers.) If Hon. Gentlemen think that London and the metropolitan districts ought to be included in this Bill, I hope they will condescend to give the House their reasons for so thinking, rather than to indulge in impu tations whicn were made dui iug two months of the last session, and which have given great amusement and hate furnished matter for vociferous cheering six weeks of the present, but which I hope will not be rtpeatea during this session.— (Cheers.) Mr. HENLEY objected to a central commission, ox. I cept for the singl e purpose of arranging the districts. It PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. . - On the m,)tion that the Speaker leave the chair, in artier to go into Committee on this Bill, Mr. HUME said he should not object to their going into Committee, but would take the sense of the House against the Bill on the report. Col. SIBTBORP objected to the Bill as wholly un necessary, and because the city of London was ex empted from its operation. There was no part of the country wood more in need of sanitary regulations n th.s. And y..* i$ Trete oxoludett, through the exercise of City influence with their representa tive, the Noble Lord at the head at the Government. Mr. URQUHART rose to move, pursuant to notice, that in in the opinion of the House, the existing law provides protection against, and remedies for. the nui sances which affect the health of man, but subse quently withdrew this amendment, and moved that the Bill be committed that day six months. His ob jection to this Bill was, that it suspended the functions Of that House, and delegated its authority to tax the people to another body. 011 that ground alone he thought it would not only prove an abortive attempt to arl vance sanitary reform, but absolutely retard it. It would, of coarse, be ardently advocated by those who expected to partake of the benefits expected to accrue from the patronage it created, amounting to a variety of places for medical inspectors, engineers, and others. It was difficult for men with such anticipations to maintain their inn grity. and he could not, therefore, refrain from say ing that this Bill came before the House in a most suspi cious guise, as tar, at least, as its political and personal aspects were concerned. He objected to it also as estab lishing a new-system of centralisation, which would usurp the power of local bodies, take from them the character of citizens and Englishmen, give rise to end less corruption, reduce all to a dull monopoly, and place in the hands of a central government an amount of patronage and power which, in addition to the degrada tion of our character and the deterioration of our cir cumstances, would entail upon us a new and enormous load of taxation. The Noble Lord, in introducing the Bill, never once made reference to the existing sia Lutes regulating the powers of municipal bodies, and providing for the prevention or suppression of nui• sances ; and this he locked upon as a most unusual and culpable omission. Now tne common law, as Lid down by Blackstone, provided rem-dies against such nuisance, and any new law on the subject ought at least to make reference to it. The means of executing the common law in respect of nuisances had in the olden time been confided to courts leet; before there had existed the assize of nuisances, but these had been lost, and now they were reduced to seek the ordinary remedy of trie law. Again, it had formerly been the practice to appoint Commissioners under the Crown. These Com missioners had, however, no appointments to give. et, profits to make, but weie simply sent to inquire into the survey nuisances, and rep, al upon whose defaults they existed. Such a course, he contended, would b. useful in the present day. But this Bill was introduced to establish a special Board to sit in London, and to have the management of everything connected with the sub ject. Indeed, the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Merpeth). when he introduced this measure, said he wished the Bill went further, and therefore it was clear that it was oily an instalment of the unconstitutional measures which might be expected to follow. The Bill would surrender the authority of the Legislature, the power of rai,ing taxes, to an extrinsic body; and this power the Noble Lord on the introduction of the Bill had expressed his doubts whether ?ornament would consent to surrender. He (Mr. Urquhart) hoped those doubts would be realised. —t, lear, hear.) In all the Noble Lord had stated with reference to the Sanitary Commission he (Mr. Urquhart) fully concurred ; and he was cure, that if the Noble Lord had confined himself to remedying evils in that respect, and had abstained from the dangerous course of legislation now under the attention of the House, the Noble L trd would have de served•the weed of praise and :he gratitude of his coun try.—(Hear, hear.) But instead of adopting that course he had claimed this objectionable measure in the name of the people of England, in the name of humanity, in the name of public liberty and of public suffering. On each of these grounds he (Mr. Urquhart) denied his Lordship's plea. There were no Health of Towns Bills in France, America, Spain, and Germany ; and why was it that the condition of the people of this country had been reduced to the lowest ebb of degradation? Was it not because the Legislattire had passed bad laws affecting the labour and industry of man ? Away, then, with this mawkish philanthropy, and restore the con dition of the people of England by a recurrence to the. principles of equal legislation. As to the Bill itself nothing could be so extraordinary and extravagant as its provisions. Its most material feature was the creation of a board of five commis sioners (one to be a minister), to whom were to be con fided the most extensive powers ever given to any body of men in this country. This board war to be appointed during her Majesty's pleasure, and hence each commis sioner-would become a mere puppet in the hands of the Ministry. This board, with such powers, ought, if at all, to be appointed, Ike the judges, during good behaviour, and the local hoards under their control ought to be re lieved from Government centralisation. lie was certain if the Bill was pass,:d it would speedily have to be altered on the demand of the people. It had at present taken the country by surprise, its objects were almost unknown and yet petitions with twenty thousand signatures had been presented against it, while only five thousand had apps-ared in its favour. He held a petition, which he had not yet had an opportunity of presenting against the measure, and It bt.re the signatures of several medical men who had signed a petition for the measure in ignorance, at the time, of its provisions. This was a proof that the mass of the nation was ignorant of the proposed legislation. Even now deputations had come up from various towns to protest against the Bill. These would increase—petitions would be laid upon the table, : and remonstrances addressed to every individual Member against the measure, if time was afforded ; and he must remark, that if the Noble Lord had thought the Bill so beneficial in its object an d'isci reflect in its