The Sun. — London, England, 1835-03-19 00:00:00

? t atters, but the less they came before the House the better. • " his was an attempt unfairly to try the case of the sitting Members. From the statement of the Right Hon. and Learned Recorder, it was clear that the engagement referred to by the Right Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin was entered into conditionally on the one part, and unconditionally on the other. Let the - House look at the probabilities of the case, and decide which was most likely. The Hon. and Learned Recorder had stated that the objection to the secu rities was totally unexpected. At the time of entering into the engagement, that had not been in the contemplation of either party. When the parties came before the examiners, the zitting Member had objected to the securities, and the examiners, with perfect justice, had made a discretional report, which would enable the House to deal with the case by allowing further time to investigate the matter. He thought a case had been made out, which would make it appear the grossest of all injustice to call upon the sitting 3lembers to enter upon their defence.—( Loud cries of " bear, hear.") It was in his (Mr. S. Rice's) opinion the duty of that House to inquire narrowly into this case, be cause if a fraud had been attempted, whatever the result of the election might be, it would show to the gentlemen connect ad with the agency of petitions and private Bills, that Parliament would not allow itself to be trifled with, and in his opinion it would he most unfair to call upon them to enter upon their case at a time when they were unprepared from the manner in which the petitioners had acted. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by expressing his acquiescence in the propriety of the course suggested as being most likely to prevent thi.i House from being imposed upon by improper representatives. Mr. W YNN fully agreed with the Honourable Member (Mr. Rice.) The House should not allow a sitting Member to be put off his guard by false statements. But as the House could not examine witnesses on oath it was difficult to see what course they should pursue. The ballot could not without a violation of the Act be pcstponed ; the only course, then, was to appont the Committee, and let them ask leave to adjourn till the Hon. Member was prepared with his defence. Mr. O'CONNELL would implore of the House to allow Lim to go into evidenke of the facts he stated as the grounds .of his application. He was to be credited or he was not. If he was worthy of credit let him have an opportunity of prov ing his statement at the Bar. There were four witnesses ready to be sworn at the Bar.—(Cries of " They cannot.") No, they could not ; but they were ready to be sworn in sup port of his statement. As to the plan proposed by the Hon. Member (Mr. Wynn) the whole of his case would depend on the preliminary decision whether they could adjourn for the purpose of allowing preparations for the defence to he entered into. His (Mr. O'Connell's) opinion was that the Committee should proceed to business on the first day. Let the House see what a jeopardy be was placed in. (The Hon. Member's pronunciation of the word jeopardy, which he uttered twice as if spelledjopporday, excited vollies of laughter.) The agent volunteered the declaration to him, he would repeat, in the presence of four creditable witnesses. He hoped the House would do him justice, and not throw him over to the chance of It ballot, and to the arbitrary construction of an Act of Parlia ment, about which even lawyers might differ, and, a priori, laymen. If six Gentlereen or the Committee read the Act as he read it, while five read it as the Hon. Member ( Mr. Wynn) read it, he could have no chance of entering into his defence. Sir R. PEEL said a few words which were inaudible to us. The tendency of them was, as we understood, to show that though it was for the House to decide whether evidence of the acts of fraud should be allowed at the Bar, yet the case de manded an extension of indulgence to the Hon. and Learned Member. Mr. RUTLIYEN made some observations confirmatory o Mr. O'Connell's statement. Sir J. CAMPBELL proposed that the petition :)e postponed till that day se'nnight. Sir J. 6RAHAM raid there was one point which it was necessary for the dignity of the House to maintain, that was the established rule that the word of a Member was equivalent in the House to his oath. The lion. Member declared that the assertion of the agent was unconditional. The agent denied that. The House would have then no oppnrtunity of rebutting the Hon. Member's dec!aration on oath at the Bar, as they could not administer an oath ; but he thought, however, for the dignity of the House that an inquiry should be instituted as to the conduct of the agent. Mr. WYNN made some remarks, which were inaudible. Mr. F. SHAW said, as the character of the agent (Mr. Baker), a most respectable andltrustworthy man, was im pug-ncd, he should be glad of an inquiry ; and as to the delay asked for, he would be better pleased if it were granted. Mr. LE FRO Y, in a few words, which the cries of " Di wide" and " Question" prevented us from hearing, energeti cally- eulogised the cha:acter of Mr. Baker, as a man of tried probity, diligence, taleut, and honour. Mr. O'CONNE I, 1, e, - ithdrew his motion, in favour of, that of Sir John Campbell, which was then agreed to. KINSALE ELECTION PETITION. Mr. WYSE rose to move the Order of the Day that the House resume the eonsideration of the Kinsale petition. After a few words from Mr. WYNN, Mr. WYSE was understood to say that he should not press the subject. CANADA. Mr. ROEBUCK inquired of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite whether a Commissioner had been appointed to pro ceed to Canada? Sir R. PEEL had great satisfaction in informing the House, a satisfaction in which be felt the House would participate, that the Gentleman who for seventoen years had performed the arduous duties of Speaker, had been prevailed upon to under take that mission, and bad accordingly been armed with the necessary power.---( Loud cheers.) An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not ascertain, inquired of Sir R. Peel if it was the intention of the Govern ment to lay on the table of the House the papers submitted to the Co amittee that sat last year on the subject of the Militia List, and the report of the state of the Militia Staff? Sir R. PEEL referred to the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Mr. GO ULBURN said that the papers were now under his consideration, and if he found they could be produced with out detriment to the public service they would be laid before the House at the mule time as the Militia Estimates. Mr. HUME as a member of the Committee alluded to, hoped they would be produced before that time. Mr. SHEIL gave notice that he should to-morrow (this day) ask the Secretary of the Home Department whether he had received two addresses from Orange Lodges, and whether any answers, if received, had been returned to those addresses, with a view to taking the sense of the House on the legality of such societies. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL. Sir J. CAMPBELL moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Imprisonment for Debt Bill. The question having been put from the Chair, Mr. CARR UTHE RS rose to inquire if the Bill were to be be referred to a Committee, for if not he had some objections to offer to the measure ; but in that event he should defer them till the Bill was before the Committee. Sir J. CAMPBELL acquainted the Hon. Member that it was customary on all occasions after a second reading to con sider a Bill in Committee. Mr. RICHARDS had received numerous communications from persons who entertained the utmost fears in consequence of the introduction of this Bill. They did not object to the details, for they had no opportunity of seeing them, but to the principle of the measure. It seemed to be the object of this Bill to assure the public that on all occasions creditors were wealthy and debtors were poor, and that creditors ought on all occasions to be merciful to debtors. By giving summary re medy too it appeared that it had been forgotten that while a man owed money on the one hand, he might have money owing to him on the other, and by this Bill he might be precluded obtaining the amount of debts due to him in sufficient time to meet an opposing claim. There was one remarkable thing too with regard to this measure, and to which he begged to draw the attention of the House, viz., that except from one jail in the metropolis there was no petition in its favour. He (Mr. Richards) had been for thirty years engaged on com mercial transactions, and he could not look upon the introduc tion of this measure as anything but a serious infliction on the interests of trade, awl that if carried into execution it would create a mortal disease in the body politic. The preamble professed to facilitate the recovery of two things for the ad vantage of the creditor, which were bills of exchange and bonds, but why were book-debts omitted? They were often much larger than the two former mentioned securities. But what he complained of was. that the great body of the public most interested were entirely unacquainted with the purposed details ; and before attacking the interests of such numerous and great bodies they should have been consulted. He should like to know if arrest of the person was abolished, what protection housekeepers could have against that large mass of the community who lived in lodgings ? Generally speaking they had no chattels to seize, and obtained credit from day to day, and from month to month, without any visible means of subsistence; and yet this Bill would take away the power of arrest and imprisonment, which was the only security the house keeper had against the fraudulent impositions of this class of persons. Hon. Gentlenien who previously supported this measure, had said that if bills of exchange were decreased by - this Bill, as had been maintained, that those that were in cir culation would be all good ones. Now he never arrested five men in his life, and would engage to say that nineteen bills out of twenty were paid But the fact was, that some Hon. Gen tlemen set themselves up as Doctrinaires and Utilitarians, and never troubled themselves about things as they were. The Hon. Member for Bridport—(Cheers)—had he lived in some fancy region, or was he so blinded by benevolent theories that he forgot the state of society in which he existed ?—( Laughter. ) Why, 19-20ths, he might with as much safety say 99-100ths, of the trade of this empire was carried on by credit, and that credit by hills. Would they then, in this state of things, with eight hundred millions of debt, and twenty millions of taxes, be guilty of anything so monstrous and cruel as passing this measure ? The Doctrinaires, • who had brought it forward, were a set of people fond of applying general principles, with out entering into particular circumstances. They were mere syllogism men, and cared not to look to consequences.—( Loud laughter.) Mr. BARING hoped that the Bill would have passed a se cond reading, and on the question that the Speaker leave the Chair, they should have discussed its details. He would,how ever, leave the question in the hands of the Hon. Member for Edinburgh. Sir J. CAMPBELL could not consent to any delay. He thought it would be cruel and unjust to those who were now pining in a gaol,and were suffering from hope so long delayed. The Hon. Member for Kaaresborough had said that no peti-. tions had been presented, but as evidence of the anxiety o f the public on the subject he had lately received hundreds of letters, urging on the prosecution of the measure. He erster tained the greatest possible respect for the opinions 'of the Hon. Member for the R)ard of Trade, but he must persevere in pressing the second reading. Mr. A. BARING that although he did not participate in the feelings of the Honourable Member for Knaresborouzh on the subject of Doctrinaires and Theorists, yet he did think the opinion of merchants and tradesmen to be worth all opi nions coming from people of less experience. That the theor of this Bill was correct he was ready to acknowledge—that misfortune was no crime, and should not, if it could be avoided meet with punishment, and least of all, the punishment df im prisonment. Yet the universal experience of mankind, and the law of all nations, rendered it fair to conclude that the possession of the person of the debtor, was the only effectual method of recovering the debt. That it was repugnant to feel ing he admitted ; but with that fact before him he was inclined to think it was the only means of remedy. He had every de sire to carry out the principle of the measure, but he could not see what method could be pursued for getting at the property of a debtor if they could not get at his person. With every anxiety to concur in the measure, be could not see how the difficulty of getting at tile property was to be obviated. He thought it chiefly concerned the tradesmen of the country. From being many years connected with trade, he knew that the people with whom the larger merchant was in the habit of dealing were more interested in the safety of their credit than of their person ; but this was not so with the smaller trades men, who, he thought, would become the victims of the thou sands of swindlers who would swarm the country. It cer tainly was an offence, and what in the present state of the law was the punishment ? A man might be confined for about five weeks under the present Insolvent Act, and he held, notwith standing the pathetic appeal of the Hon. and Learned Gentle man, that that was not a grievance to be compared to the dan ger which could arise fram the adoption of a contrary practice. 'The Hon. Member for Middlesex thought that he could an swer every objection by saying that the present Bill would do away with credit. He (Mr. A. Baring) apprehended that credit was necessary. Men of large capital required it, even persons of the largest capital required the operation of cre dit, and, a fortiori, the retail tradesman most require it. For his part he would feel much pleasure if he could come to the same conclusions upon the subject as the Hon. and Learned Member for Edinburgh; hut he was bound to con fess that his apprehensions of the eff2cts of the Bill were by no means few nor slight. He would confess, however, that there was a great deal of the Bill which was extremely useful, and he believed that the commerce of the country would on this score find itself much indebted to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. America was very anxious for the personal li berty of her citizens, and her laws affecting that personal li berty were sufficiently relaxed ; and yet she had no such state of law as that contemplated by the present measure. France and Holland had not such a law ; and, in fact, in no part of the world did such a law exist.—( Hear.) Was it prudent then to make such an experiment in the most artificial country upon earth, a country more filled with the chevaliers d'industrie than any other, and more full of that description of swindlers which preyed upon credit. He had but one m- - )re observation to make, and that was upon the facility which the Bill gave for the re covery of the amount of bond debts. There was a class of per sons in this country who should he informed of the manner in which this Bill was likely to affect them. The Bill gave a summary remedy against all persons who had signed a bond. Now there was at least one hundred thousand of these bonds afloat between families for the purposes of loans being taken up, and other persons who gave bonds on mortgages creating a lien on ths.ir estates had by the practice of the country six months's given them before the money was sued for. Sir J. CAMPBELL, interrupted the Right Hon. Gentle man across the table, but in a voice scarcely audible in the Gallery. We understood the Learned Gentleman to say that such bonds might be sued upon immediately. Mr. BARING continued—All persons of landed property knew that by the practice of the country they could get or did get a very considerable allowance of time. When a mortgage was to he called in by the present Bill, judgment could be obtained upon the bond in ten days, and in ten days more the property of the person who had signed the bond could be seized, or put into the hands of trustees, if the demand were not otherwise satisfied. Then he had to complain that the most arbitrary power was given to these trustees. They could select what property they pleased out of a man's estate and sell it, to satisfy the bondholder, and could do just as they might think fit, without responsibility or control. All he could say was, that the proprietors of land throughout the kingdom ought to know that this was the proposed' alteration to be made in the laws of the country. Ile had thrown out these general observations upon the principle of the Bill, and, though he should not now oppose the Bill passing through another stage, he should reserve to himself thb privilege of giving it his opposition in detail. Sir J. CAMPBELL was of opinion that it was of the greatest importance that the House should without delay de cide upon the principles of the Bill.—( Hear, hear, hear.) A Committee had spent days, and v. eeks, and months in di gesting the provisions and details of the Bill, and from the manner in which -the Bill had been received by the House when he had first introduced it, he firmly anticipated that the principle of the Bill would meet with the approbation of a very great majority in that House—( Hear, hear)—and that it would be sent to a Select Committee with such an over whelming majority in its favour, that without any difficulty it would become the law of the land.---( Hear. ) He was sur prised to hear the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade lament that Bills of this. description cantered through the House, for all who knew anything of the prorress of Reform in the two Houses of Parliament very well knew that such Bills did the very reverse of cantering or galloping through their stages, notwithstanding which, however, he did entertain sanguine hopes that the present measure would pass without any very serious delay—•( Hear.) Merchants who dealt with • millions, and petty shopkeepers, had equally been examined by the Committee, and that Committee, after the most minute examination of every class and condition of traders, had come to a determination that a measure of the present description would prove of the most essential benefit to the whole commu nity. Upon the report of that Committee a Bill had been framed, had been brought into Parliament in the last session, and had been most widely circulated all over the country. He denied that any man could plead ignorance of the Bill, and he equally denied the assertion of the Right Hen. the Presid nt of the Board of Trade that the Bill was peculiarly calculated for the benefit of debtors. It was a Bill of general provi sions, equally calculated for the benefit of debtor and credi tor, and for the advantage of the general credit and character of the country.—( Hear, hear, hear.) What w ere the enact ments of the Bill ? The first provision was a summary exe cution on bonds and bills of exchange. The clause gave a power of summoning a debtor, of compelling him on oath to disclose the state of his real and personal property, and of sending him to gaol if he refused to give a satisfac tory statement. The third provision subjected to the pro cess of execution the property of every debtor, let it be of what description it might.—( Hear, hear.) By the present law money could not be taken; bills of exchange could not be ta ken ; money in the bank could not be taken ; copyhold lands; and many other species of landed property could not be takan ; and, in fact, the most fraudulent and profligate of debtors might live in all the luxuries of the earth upon the property of their creditors, and run those creditors to ruinous expense, and set them at defiance. Such was the present state of the law of this enlightened country, and he was glad that so few were to be found who did not wish the law to be altered. The next head of the Bill embraced the principle of the sessio bonorum. %he next was a provision eminently calculated to punish the frauds of the chevalier d'industrie, of which the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade complained. Last of all came that great enactment, which did not abolish imprisonment for debt, as the Right Hon. Gentleman supposed, but abolished it in cases of fraud, making a distinction, which the present law did not make, between the honest and fraudulent debtor. —( Hear, hear.) These were the heads of the Bill, and now he would advert to the objections that had been made against them. The Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade had sounded the toscin of alarm to all persons who had mortgages on their estates, lest payment should be enforced on their bonds in the space of twenty days. In fact, however, the Bill gave no facility to sue upon mortgage bonds, and only met those cases where false and fraudulent pretences were urged for not paying the amount. What were the pleas by which the indul gence of time, of which the Right Hon. Gentleman spoke, was now obtained? The party had to plead that he had never signed or sealed the bond which he had signed or sealed, and which stood in flagrant evidence against him; and he had to plead that he had given a horse or some other fictitious thing an satisfaction, or he had to put in seine other sham plea, by which he compelled his creditor to go to trial, and to throw away his money ; in some cases to throw away good money after bad--( Hear, hear)—and thus to arTavate the injury he had originally sustained. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had said that there was no country in which an experiment si- • milar to the present had been tried. Did not the Right Hon. Gentleman know that a similar law existed in France, in Ger many, in Italy, and in Scotland, and in which latter country it was well known that it operated beneficially.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But at present, by the law which the Right Hon. Pre sident of the Board of Trade did not wish to see altered, a mortgagee might sue on his bond, and the other party, if he did not pay, must plead a lie, and by his fraud and chi canery he could put off the evil day for only three or four weeks, for the Right Hon. Gentleman was not aware that by certain Bills which the Judges had most properly made, the old extent of frauds had been suppressed.. This rule had been found to act beneficially in many instances, and prejudicially in none. ( Hear, hear, hear.) The present Bill would prevent the debtor's money being spent amongst lawyers when it ought to go to the creditors.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The next enactment was that debtors were to be summoned before Judges after judgment had been passed. The effect of this clause was to assimilate the law between pe sons in trade and those that were not in trade. At pre sent a man in trade might fail for one million, and he was protected if he made a full disclosure of his assets. If he absconded, or concealed his property, then he could be sent to gaol. Now he only wished the Right Honourable Pre, sident of the Board of Trade to tell him why a man not in trade who owed :500/. should, as a matter of course, be sent to gaol, whilst he in trade who owed a million should be free ?—( Hear.) It was a most disgraceful thing that in England all property of every sort was not liable to the pay ment of just debts.—( Hear.) The present law of England was not very creditable to the country, and it was such that in his opinion few honourable men would wish for its continuance. The present distinctions between the liabilities of personal and real property occasioned the greatest frauds to be committed. It was Sir Samuel Romilly who had first endeavoured to effect an alteration in the law. In his day a man might have bor rowed 50,0001., bought land with 'it, die the next day, leave the land to his son or heir, and the creditor or creditors who had advanced the 50,0001. could not recover one single shil ling, as real property was not liable to the obligations of simple contract debts.—( Hear, hear, hear ) The Right Honourable the President of the Board of Trade would see therefore that improvements did not canter or gallop through the Houses of Parliament. It was not until the last session that a Bill had been brought into Parliament by the son of Sir Samuel Ro milly, and by which simple contract creditors had a general remedy against the real estate of the debtor. Sir Samuel 4 Romillv's Bill had carried the principle no further than that THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, MARCH 19, 1835. if a man were in trade his landed estates should be liable to simple contract debts. The creditor had a lien on 11;s estates. It was to the honour of the Reformed Parliament that this distinction between real and personal property had been avoided. The next enactment of the Bill related to the principle of the sessio bonorum without imprisonment. By the present law the most lamentable consequences were known to ensue. A man who went within the walls of a prison seldom left them so good a man as he had been when he had entered. He lost his own respect and the respect of his friends, and of the community. He was contaminated by bad example, he spent his time in vice, and the money that ought to pay his debts among lawyers. The expense of going through the Insolvent Court on an average minimum was 10/., and which was thrown away amongst the lowest practition ers of the law. The greatest disssatisfaction had arisen from that tribunal, and the dividends on the estates of debtors had not amounted on an average to one farthing in the pound. I A man who failed in business for 1,000,000'. was discharged without going to gaol, and why not make the same law for a man not in trade who owed a small sum, and honestly -gave up his whole property to his creditors?—(Hear, hear.) Such was the law in Scotland. He allowed that trade could not be carried on without credit, but there was a vast difference between prudent and wholesome credit and ficti tious and mischievous credit.--( Hear, hear.) The first effect of this Bill was to make the creditor inquire into the charac ter and condition of the pc: son who wanted credit. Trusting to the power of imprisonment persons now gave credit with too much facility. He would come to the most important clause of the Bill, that which abolished all imprisonment for debt except in cases of fraud. At present imprisonment, as far as the ends of justice were concerned, was a mere farce. A man receiving his capias ad faciendem, went into the King's Bench, where by bribing the Marshal in the purchase of day rules, he took all the pleasures of life' and set his creditors at defiance. The rules, he believed, extended two miles, and a mar, might take an elegant house, and his Lady give routs without the visitors having any suspicion that the parties were prisoners for debt within the rules of a gaol. He maintained that such a system ought to be abolished. The gao's cf the kingdom would not be sufficient to contain the crowds of debtors that might be thrust into them by the pre sent law, and therefore was it that there arose a necessity to have these fictitious gaols. The Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade had made no distinction between imprison ment upon mesne process and upon judgment or execution, Imprisonment upon mesne process was unknown on the Con tinent, and it was the opprobrium of this country. At present any man, upon making a false affidavit, might throw anothei into gaol. It was only lately that the Duke de Cadaval, on his arriving in London, was arrested for a debt of ten thou sand pounds, without the smallest colour or pretext, and he had actually to pay four hundred sovereigns in order that he might not go to gaol. The expenses oParrest, on the mos moderate calculation, amounted upon an average to 300,0001. per anuum. Arrests upon mesne process had not been the ancient law of England. It had been introduced in compa ratively modern times, and to the disgrace of the country it had been allowed to exist too long. As knowledge advanced, as science was propagated, and as they had their influence upon society. the power of imprisonment for debt was found to vanish. In France the power was limited more and more every year, and he should be proud if England should have the honour of setting to France the example of abolishing im prisonment for debt altogether. He hoped he had satisfac torily answered the objections of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, for whom he personally felt the most sincere re spect. The more he considered the subject the more dis tinctly did he see the beneficial consequences likely to result from the adoption of the measure he had had the honour to propose to the House.--( Hear.) Mr. CARRUTHERS said, if the Bill in the shape in which it had been introduced were suffered to pass, all parties concerned in manufactures and commerce would be seriously damaged by one portion of it—the pre-emption given to bills of exchange over book-debts. By the laws as they stood, all the creditors of a bankrupt were entitled to an equal share in the assets of his property, but by this Bill a preference was given to one class of creditors, the holders of bills of ex change. That was one of the objections he had to it. An other objection was that a new Court was to be created by it into which all persons having overdue bills of exchange out against them could be driven. If the bankrupt laws were suf ficient for all purposes connected with credit, he should have no objection to this Court ; but that they were not so was per fectly well known to all who were engaged in trade or commerce. There were cases of daily occurrence which the bankrupt laws could not reach ; and it would be found that no assets would exist in many of these, on account of the pre-emption given to bills of exchange when bankruptcy en sued. One of the great evils likely to arise from granting a pre-emption to a particular class of credit might be briefly alluded to. In the time of the late war the merchants of this country had not alone to wait for convoys, and to take the chances of the weather, but also to send the goods made up by them through the most circuitous routes to the continental market. For instance, there were many cases, and those of common occurrence, where goods made up in this country were cent to Macedonia for the purpose of being transported over land to Frankfort on the Maine, in consequence of the ports being closed against England. Bills of Exchange of course passed between the parties shipping and the parties manufac turing. In many of these cases, in consequence of the great delay arising from the causes stated, the merchants were obliged to get their bills kept back until they should have advices of the arrival of their respective shipments at thei, 1 destination. If such cases were to occur again, and the Bil, of the Hon. and Learned Member for Edinburgh to be in operation, the right of pre-emption given to bills of exchange would be the cause of ruin to numbers ; for it would give the holders a power to pounce upon the property of the merchant, the moment the hills became due, and it would give him nc power to avert his destruction. He would cite a case of recent occur; ence, as quite in point with the matter at issue. In the recent extensive failures in India, it was well known that seve ral great commercial houses in town were affected, in one o which were deposits to the amount of eOO,OOO/., the properti of various individuals. If the Bill of the Hon. and Learned Member was then in operation, the holders of any overdue bills of exchange could come in and seize possession of the sum, and leave the depositors to their secondary share of the assets. Since the passing of the Bankrupt Laws, such was the severity of their operation in the matter of expenses, that there was scarce a great failure in London in which the solicitor and the creditor did not endeavour to compromise rather than inctir the enormous costs of a Commission. In a recent case, a house its the City failed for 200,000/., and it was compromised, because ' it was ascertained that the expenses of a Commission of Bank ruptcy would amount to 10,000/. This was bad enough in all conscience ; but if the Bill before the House passed in the shape in which it then stood, it would be worse. No merchant would be able to keep out of the Bankrupt Court, if pre -emption was given to bills of exchange over other kinds of credit. It would be a vet y grievous thing for the merchant, but a very good harvest for the lawyers. He (Mr. C.) fully agreed with the Hon. and Learned Member on the injurious tendency of unlimited credit ; but he was free to say that his Bill would not permit it. With respect to the main question, imprisonment for debt, he (Mr. C.) could safely say that he was not partial to it. He had lived up to the present day without ever having arrested any man for debt, and he hoped he should terminate his life without being compelled to have recourse to it as a remedy. But he thought the Bill of the Hon. Member for Edinburgh went too far on the subect. If credit were injured, as the Bill in its present form had a ten dency to do, the industry of the country would be seriously detrimented. Mr. BERNAL said that with respect to the presumed dan ger to mercantile houses from the pre-emption given to bills of exchange, urged by his Hon. Friend the Member for Hull, he would beg to inquire of that Hon. Gentleman whether that presumption was not founded on assumed malice of the enemies of that house ? That being the case, he would beg to ask his Hon. Friend whether by the law, as it now stood, an equal de gree of injury to an establishment could not be caused by any individual entertaining such a feeling and having the power of a large creditor over it ? IVith respect to the assertion of his Hon. Friend, that the Bankrupt Laws caused an enormous expense, he could only say that those expenses existed before the bank rupt laws came into operation, and, therefore, that could be no argument against the foundation of the new Court proposed by the Bill, on the model of the Court of Bankruptcy. Hon. Members had talked of the curtailment of credit. Now he (Mr. Bernal) thought that those who did so were seeking out objections against the Bill which had in reality no existence. Credit was one thing and unlimited confidence was another. The latter, which existed to such a ruinous extent in this overgrown metropolis, was what the Bill of his Hon. and Learned Friend sought to suppress, and not that healthful cre dit without which all trade was at an end.—(Hear.) As to imprisonment for debt, in itself regarded as a punishment, it was plainly in many cases quite the contrary. It had been urged against the Bill that it gave protection to fraudulent debtors ; but the contrary was the case. It protected credi tors by giving them power over all species of property, and it protected unfortunate debtors only. Mr. C. W. WYNN fully agreed with the principle of the Bill (as we understood) and regretted that he should be ob liged to differ in some of its details. However, he thought the Hon. and Learned Member for Edinburgh had began at the right end of the subject. He (Mr. W.) had been for many years most anxious for the success of that or a similar mea sure. Twenty-eight years since he bad been one of the very few who supported the late Sir Samuel Romilly in his first attempt to make real property liable to the creditor ; he was, therefore, glad to perceive that the object of his endeavours was now nearly accomplished. With respect to the imprison ment for debts no one could doubt its inefficiency for all useful purposes in connection with credit. The Right Hon. Gen tleman concluded by expressing a hope that the portion of the Bill which related to the granting of certificates to debtors (as we understood him) would be considered well in the Com mittee, and by giving the principle of the measure his fullest approbation. Mr. CLAY could take upon him to assert, with the utmost confidence, that nothing was more rare than the circumstance of one merchant arresting another for debt, and ho was stare that if the whole of the merchants of England were polled upon the question but few would be found to set any value upon the power of arrest which the existing law gave them over their creditors. If the power of arrest was of any value to mercantile interests of any class it could only be to small dealers ; yet he had reason to believe that even with this class but little value was set upon it. He had the honour of re presenting perhaps the largest mercantile constituency of all classes in the country, and not one single petition had been entrusted, or a single representation made, to him from any portion of them against this Bill. On the contrary, he had every reason to believe that it met with universal approbation amongst them. Mr. E WA RT said that, like his Hon. Friend who had last spoken, he too represented a large mercantile constituency, from no portion of which had he received any instruction to offer opposition to this Bill. Convinced as he was that the measure was calculated to add to rather than diminish the security of property, ho should give it his most warm support. The titles of Doctrinaires and Utilitarians had been applied, as if they were synonymous to the promoters of such measures as the Bill now under consideration. But those who made use of those terms did not seem to understand their meaning. There was a wide distinction between the two. A Doctrinaire %WAS a much more aristocratic character than an Utilitarian. But he would refer to the opinion of a man who was neither one or the other—he meant Lord Eldon. That Noble and Learned Lord bad denounced the law of arrest for debt as the worst species of slavery. This Bill would be a wholesome warning. It was saying " Caveat, creditor." If no other country had ever tried this experiment he should be proud that England, the greatest mercantile country in the world, was the first to set so beneficial an example. Mr. GROTE said that the principle of this Bill seemed to him to be recommended both by policy and humanity, and he was more convinced of this by the speech of the President of the Board of Trade, than by any other reasoning upon the =subject. He always preferred having his own views sustained by the failure of his opponent's arguments than the success of his own. This was the case as regarded the speech of the President of the Board of Trade. He did not think that small tradesmen would have any reason to complain when they : - 'ound that the} were only placed on a footing with all the other classes of the community. He should be glad if some t'acility were superaddcd for the recovery of book-debts, and 'le would not give any advantage to the holders of bills of ex change that he would not give to creditors on book-debts. Mr. M. PHILLIPS said that it was impossible for any mercantile man not to see that the existing law was totally in-4 consistent with the interests even of those whom it affected to :arotect. Mr. O'CONNE LL regretted that the Bill was not to ex tend to Ireland. He did not know if it might not be so al 'erect in Committee as to let Ireland have the benefit of it ; but he doubted much that it could be so altered. If not, he would pledge himself to bring in a similar measure for Ireland. He regretted for the sake of humanity that this Bill had not passed sooner, and it would have passed, had the late Govern ment remained in office. Mr. ROLFE supported the Bill. Mr. WARBURTON approved of the measure as founded on the great principles of justice. The principle of justice was, that the creditor had a claim upon every species of pro perty in the possession of the debtor. _ After a few words from Mr. BARING and Sir J. CAMPBELL, in explanation, .Mr. SMITH expressed his approbation. One of its good effects would be to free that House from the odium to which its members were heretofore exposed on account of the exemp tion from arrest. An HON. NlEmavn should be glad to see the power of arrest taken away. Captain PECHELL said the retail traders of Brighton thought their interests would not be protected by this Bill. lie had a petition from them to this effect. The Bill was then read a second time, and referred to :he following Select Committee. Campbell, Sir John Pollock, S r F. Follett, Sir NV. W. Aglionby, H. A. Blamiro ' V. 1; rod ie, NV. D. B,therton, J. Puller, C. Carruthers, David Carter. J. B. Clzzy, W. Crip2i, J. Civett, E. Ewart, V. Fergimson. R. C. Finn, NY. F. Fleetwood, H. Freshtield, J. W. Graham, Sir J. R. G. Grey Sir G. Hawes, B. Hogg, J. W. Lushington. Dr. Lynch. A. R Morpeth, Viscount Murrrly, J A. O'Connell, D. O'Dwyer, C. A. (PLoghlen, 151; Ord, W. H. Pembei ton, T. Poulter, .1. S. Perrin, 1. Prvme, G. Richards. J. Sir M. W. Roesuck, .1. A. Rolfe, J. M. Shaw, F. Shell, R. L. Smith, .T. A. Talniurd, T. Noon T.tiscred, H. W. '►woke, W. \V rhurton, H. Jackson, J. D. Hardy, J. Egerton, Lord Fran. Stuart, Lord James Lefroy, A. Perceval, Colonel Himiphery, J. Bernal, R. Parry, I . J. P. Copeland, W. Philips, )1 Nlaule, Hon. Fox Dalmeny, Lord Baring, A. Rundell, John Graie, G. I Sir J. CAMPBELL s.tid a wish had been expressed that the measure should extend to Ireland. To that he had no ob jection. He wished to know from the Chair whether it would be competent to the Committee, without special instruction, to report upon the Bill as embracing Ireland. The SPEAKER (as we understood) answered in the affir mative. The Bill was then read a second time. The Copyhold Bill was read a second time, and committed, COURT OF SESSION-SCOTLAND. The LORD ADVOCATE moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Court of Session ( Scotland) Bill. Mr. WALLACE objected to the Commission which re commended this Bill, as formed • entirely of professional gen tlemen. Merchants and commercial men ought to have been included. He objected to the fees provided in the Bill. They were objectionable in every Court, and ought to be abolished. The Learned Lord proposed to reduce eighteen clerks. He .vould submit whether it would not be better at once to super annuate them. Mr. C. FE RG USSON said commercial men could give no assistance whatever to the Commission on a question of this kind. Professional men also could know whether clerks in Court might or might not be reduced without inconvenience. The Learned Lord was entitled to greatcredit for what he had lone. He was glad to sec the fees diminished. They were great grievance. He wished to knew whether the effect of the Bill would be to take off the half of the former fees? The Hon. Gentleman referred to the great defects of the Scottish conveyancing laws, and called the attention of the House to a late decision of the Court of Session, by which a deed in ether respects perfectly valid had been nullified in consequence )f a single figure in a date being written upon an erasure. Such a decision was likely to unsettle a vast amount of pro perty, and great anxiety was naturally entertained upon the subject by the proprietors of land. He hoped therefore that the Learned Lord would see the necessity of introducing into 9 arliament a Bill for explaining that particular branch of the law. The LORD ADVOCATE said that his desire was as ar dent as that of any other Hon. Gentleman to afford relief to suitors by a considerable reduction of fees. His intention was to lay before the Committee a statement of the whole case to which the present rate of fees would be set out on the one hand, and on the other the standard to which he thought it would be proper to reduce them. In reference to the defects )f the conveyancing laws he had to state that in a former , ession he brought in Bills for the amendment of certain parts )f the system, but although he earnestly endeavoured to get them passed into a law, his exertions were unattended by suc cess. He had not lost sight of the subject, and even now he was prepared to legislate upon it. Mr. MURRAY agreed that the subject of fees would be most fitly considered by the Committee, and also that it would be advisable to wait for the result of the inquiries which the Commissioners were then making. With regard to the deci sion to which his Hon. and Learned friend (Mr. Fergusson) had referred, he begged to ask whether he was aware that the question was still pending, and whether in such a case he would have the Learned Lord to interfere in any way whatever ? This much he would add, that anything written upon an erasure had always been held by the Scottish law as a valid objection, and that it mainly accounted for the purity of deeds in Scotland being greater than in any other country. SirJ. CAMPBELL hailed with the utmost satisfaction these beneficial alterations of the Scottish law. He should es teem it a distinguished honour to be placed upon the proposed Committee. The Bill was then read a second time, and the following Committee appointed to take it into consideration : Rae, Sir W. Pringle, A. Balfour, T. Oswald, J. Murray, J A. Stewart, Sir M. S. Dunlop, C. liackenzie, J. A. S. ::ope, Hon. J. Maxwell, J. Bruce, C. L. C. Forbes, W. Hay, Sir J. Wallace, tt Campbell, Sir J. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT (SCOTLAND) BILL. On the Order of the Day for the second reading of this Bill being read, Mr. MAXWELL suggested that the Bill should be transmitted to Scotland before being sent up to the House of Lords. The measure had not been introduced too soon. If it had not been brought forward all the gaols in Scotland would have been filled with unfortunate debtors. The LORD ADVOCATE said it was intended to refer the Bill also to a Select Committee. Sir J. CAMPBELL suggested that the amount for which debtors were not to be liable to imprisonment should be ex tended to 10/. He had rather it was 201. ; but he would be satisfied with the sum he had named. Mr. WALLACE begged to say a few words in reference to the conveyancing law of Scotland, to which allusion was made on the former question. It was a most scandalous sys tem—a barbarous relic of antiquity. The report of the dila tory Commissioners ought not to be waited for. As they were unpaid, it was not likely they would leave their personal engagements for the sake of the public; and their report, he was assured, would not be completed till August, when any attempt to legislate on the sabject would be useless and pre posterous. He had four Bills already prepared, which had cost him much labour and expense, and he saw no reason why he should not offer them to the House, either to supersede the forthcoming recommendations of the Commissioners, or to compete with the Bills which the Learned Lord had intimated that he had in readiness. Mr. S. M CK EN ZIE saw no objection to an extension of the amount stated in the Bill. The LORD ADVOCATE explained that the amount had been limited to 81. 6s. Bd., because for that sum there was a particular summary process, under which a great number of debtors were imprisoned. The limitation was recommended by the Commissioners, and it would effect the release of two thirds of the debtors confined for small sums. If he had not carried the Bill the whole length of the principle, it was from a wish to see the English measure first adopted by the Legis lature.—(Hear, hear.) When that had been effected, he would have no objection to the further extension of the Bill before them. This question, however, would also be for the discussion of the Committee. The Bill was then read a second time. The Illegal Securities Bill was read a second time. REGISTRATION OF VOTERS' BILL. On the order of the day for the second reading of this Bill being read— Nrr. POULTER when he brought in this Bill, did so with an intention to propose that it should be referred to the consi deration of a Select Committee. On the principle involved it was necessary that the Legislature should come to same de termination, and the reference o f the Bill to a Committee would be thought to be the best mode of arriving at a satisfac tory c onclusion on some of the points connected with the sub ject. The plain and simple principle he took to be this : The Legislature had conferred upon a numerous class in the country a most important political right, and therefore it was incumbent on them to secure to that class the free and inde pendent exercise of the franchise with which they were in vested. The proper exercise of this franchise was essential to the interests of the nation, so it was held out when the privi lege was granted, and therefore no means should be neglected to give to it that freedom and independence it required. To political parties or to political opinions he meant not to refer. His opinion was that the greater part of those evils which afflicted the country, and had called. forth such heavy com plaints, proceeded not from individuals in whose power it was to carry into execution the threats and annoyances which ob structed the free action of the voter. They proceeded not from the principals, at whose door the blame was usually laid, but from unauthorized persons, from inferior parties, from agents, who threatened and intimidated the voter without the concurrence or even the knowledge of the honourable persons whose names they employed. How many tenants were there who had been alarmed without the slightest knowledge or authority of their landlords, who were dis posed to leave them to the free and plenary enjoyment of their political rights ? How many tradesmen had been threatened by servants with the loss of their masters' custom and trade, the masters themselves being totally ignorant of such mean and petty, but not the less injurious, intimidation ! He next came to the statute of the sth of Geo. IV.. cap. 95, which yielded to workmen and artificers of every description • the right of combining and co-operating for their mutual in- terests ; but also made it a criminal offence on their part to use threats or intimidation to any person. He felt that he was completely fortified by both departments of the law in the limited object which he had in view. That object was to render threats and intimidation, used for the purpose of biassing the mind of the voter, a misdemeanor, punishable by fine and imprisonment. Of course the amount of the punish ment inflicted would be left entirely to the discretion of the Judge and Jury, and must depend on the peculiar circumstances of each individual case. It was, however, the intention of his Bill to give an increasing punishment i❑ the event of a second conviction, and to disqualify a party repeating the offenca from ever again voting for the election of a Member to serve in Parliament. It also contained the form of an oath, analo gous to the bribery oath, which an elector could be called upon by either party to take before his vote was received, but he had studiously avoided any thing that could lead to secret voting. • The ballot he was convinced would be a perfectly fallacious remedy. It would spread fraud and deception throughout the country, and, instead of preventing the evil, the only tendency silent voting could have, would be to subvert that spirit of manly independence which was characteristic of Englishmen. Such were the provisions of his Bill. His object was to extend and strengthen that just moral influence which one class of society ought to possess over another, and if any thing were more than another calculated to uproot and destroy that necessary influence it was the use of threats and intimidation. —( Hear.) With these few observations, and in this spirit, he would 'conclude, and, without occupying the time of the House longer, move for leave to bring in a Bill to protect the free exercise of the political franchise in Great Britain and Ireland.—( Hear.) _ _ Mr. F. MAIJI.E rose to second the motion of his Hon. Friend ; and as he had since the passing of the Reform Bill been conversant with elections, he could from experience as sert that nothing hindered the free exercise of the right of voters so much as threats and that species of intimidation which was commonly resorted to. He did not apprehend that any objection would be made to the introduction of this mea sure, inasmuch as the evil which it proposed to remedy was one which became the subject of animadversion on the part of tho losers as well as the winners in elections. Dr. BO WRING said that the ballot was the only means by which that moral influence of which the Hon. Member had spoken could he either appealed to or brought to bear, as it was on all hands admitted that there would be almost insur mountable difficulties in bringing - a case of intimidation home to the party who had used it. Indeed this was illustrated by the late election for Blackburne, and it was his intention to call the attention of the House on some future occasion to the mode of canvassing and personal visits of the Hon. Member for that bo rough to the voters, as well as to the applications made and the letters written to them on his-behalf. Mr. SC A RLETT was convinced that the ballot—secret voting—was not only unmanly, but unworthy of the character of Englishmen.---( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had thought fit to allude to the conduct of the Hon. Member for Blackburne, but surely the Hon. Gentleman should take the beam out of his own eye before lie plucked the mote out of another's. The conduct of the Hon. Gmtleman himself was not quite so spotless as he would have the House believe it was. Mr. PO ULTE R, in reply, said that the Bill embraced the whole of the United Kingdom, and included as well religious as every other species of intimidation. Mr. O'CONNELL said that the Reform Bill had thrown the oli g archy of the hereditary aristocracy o ut o f p ower , and now the influence of money exercised by that body was placed in much worse hands. It became the Members of that House to sustain the present motion. The Bill certainly did not go far enough, so far as he could wish ; but although it did not go the length of secret voting, it still went one step towards rendering intimidation criminal, and as that would relieve those to whom such means of procuring votes was usually attributed, he trusted that the House would allow it to be brought in. Mr. FE CTOR said, that he would have been ashamed to owe his position in that House to such arts and means as those by which it was alleged some Hon. and Learned Mem bers on the opposite benches had procured the seats which they now occupied.—( Cheers, in which Mr. O'Connell and the Irish Members joined ironically.) He owed his return to no intimidation ; no threats had ever been used towards any elector who had voted against him ; and he repeated, that if either he or the party by whom he was supported had re sorted to such unworthy means, he would scorn to occupy a seat in that House.—( Cheers ) He was prepared to maintain that the ballot was not the way in which Englishmen would wish to exerciee their political privileges. Secret voting, he asserted, was not only un-English, but would afford protection to none but the skulking coward, who blushed for his own weakness.—( Cheers. ) Mr. EWA RT said that the ballot was not the question which they had now to deal with ; but he could not help re marking that whenever any mention was made of it some pe culiar sophistry, which he termed subterfuge, was resorted to for want of better reasons to negative its necessity. When the Hon. Member for Norwich spoke of religious intimidation he ( Mr. E wart) thought he alluded to a petition which had that day been presented to the House, complaining of the influence used by certain clergymen in this country at the Canterbury election. It was evident that Ireland was not the only place in which religious intimidation was resorted to.—( Hear, hear, from Mr: O'Connell and the Irish Members.) What he hoped was that such an interference, whether by clergy or laity, would speedily be restrained.—( Hear.) Mr. TREVOR said that the interference of Clergymen in election matters seemed to oceasian dissatisfaction in the minds of many Hon. Gentlemen; but for his part he did not under stand why Clergymen as well as other persons should not be at liberty to exercise the legitimate influence which they pos sessed.—(Cheers from Mr. O'Connell and the Irish Mem bers.) The Hon. Members opposite cheered ; but he was ready to repeat that the Clergy had as much right as any other body to use on such occasions the influence they had ac quired. Could it be said that they had attempted that which was illegal', or that their conduct bore any resemblance to that of the Roman Catholic Priests. He must protest against the odium endeavoured to be cast upon the Clergy of England, because they exercised the influence which they possesse,dbut, although he said this, he would defy any one to prove that in a single instance a Protestant Clergyman had used anything like intimidation.—( Cheers.) Mr. GOULBURN deprecated such a discussion, and was of opinion that Gentlemen would better consult the interests of the country by endeavouring to avoid them. For his part he approved of the pill, and would endeavour to give every as sistance in his power to prevent intimidation at elections. Leave was then granted. WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. Lord EBRINGTON moved for a Select Committee to in quire into the provisions of the Act of last session for establish ing the uniformity of weights and measures, and to consider of such amendments in that Act as may be calculated to carry its objects more fully and satisfactorily into effect. After a few words from Messrs. GOULBURN, WALLACE, and others, the motion was agreed to, and the following Committee appointed Knatchtaill, Sir E. Jephs n, C. D. 0. Wilmot, Sir Eardley Stewart, P. M. MileA, W. Thornley, Thomas A iniworth, Peter Davenport, J. f.hrington, Viscount Stanley, E. J. Goulburn, H. Wrottesley, Sir J. B Baring, A. Walker, C. A. Clerk, Sir G. Ferguson, Sir R. Scholefield, J. Mosley, Sir 0. Rae, it Gore, W 0. Gi,borne, T. Whalley, Sir S. Wallace, It IMRl:flu, L. Adam, Adm*ral I Wilks, .1. Mr. S. LEFEVRE moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the amendment and consolidation of the laws relating to the highways in England and Wales.—Leave granted. Mr. W. MILES moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the more effectually preventing canine madness, and for giving relief to persons and property injured by dogs. After a few words from Messrs. O'Connell, Ewart, War burton, C. Buller, and Hume, against the propriety of the measure, the motion was withdrawn. LAW OF LIBEL. Mr. O'CONNELL rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Law of Libel. He intended that a day con venient to the law officers of the Crown should be appointed for the second reading of the Bill, and that it should be re ferred to a Select Committee, with power to report thereon to the House. In the absence of the legal advisers of the Crown he should not enter fully into the subject; be would content himself wish the course he meant to pursue, and at a future stage, the law officers of the Crown would be enabled to exa mine all the details of the measure. If there was any propo sition upon which all parties were agreed it was upon this, that the law of libel was in a most unsatisfactory state, and in no way in unison with public feeling. There were three modes of proceeding according to the law of libel as it at present stood. The first was by an action for damages : and with respect to the words printed and published it was i mmater i a l how maliciously they were used : if there was a true and per fect defence the party was subject to costs. On the other hand, if proofs were not brought forward, according to the terms of the allegation, all the Jury could do was to award small damages ; but those damages might be aggravated by carrying very large costs. There h a d b een i nstances o f me n bringing actions for libel from mercenary motives, in which, after patient investigation, there were d amages on l y t o the amount of sixpence, while the costs amounted to 500/. The anomaly of the law in the Court of King's Bench was striking. In criminal prosecutions no one could apply to the Court of King's Bench with a certainty of success. The truth of the alleged libel would not be a justification. At present the truth was kept from the consideration of the Jury. Now the best criterion of malice was the truth or falsehood of the charge. He (Mr. O'Connell) would go no further into the details of the Bill, as the law officers of the Crown, without forfeiting any portion of the duty they owed to the country, declared they would wait for the development of the details of the Bill, and would then give their opinions upon it.—( Hear.) The Hon. Member spoke in so low and hoarse a voice as to be inaudible in most parts of his very short address. After a few words from Mr. BULLIR and Mr. GOULBURN, leave was given to bring in the Bill. The House then adjourned, at Half-past Twelve o'clock. EAST INDIA HOUSE, . day: Sir C. FORBES'S speech concluded from The Sue ayeft 4 e, -hy, What was the consequence of this miscalled free trade?. ", that in the course of 20 years India has been impoverish:U.._ 5 (hear)—or trade has been almost annihilated, and sli p ; t. been obliged to send a large proportion of her rem . 11.1. °„ goods imported from this country, in specie. That couast was at this moment so drained of the precious metals, find it a matter of difficulty to pay the enormoils im posed upon it. If money was required for the • s!xigerici,ecn the state, and that he (Sir C. F. ) did not mean' t° 1 . 0 ) ; surely the means should be afforr'.ed India of sending. be Were duce to this country on less disadvantageous terms. ' it not found necessary to send sugar as a dead weight,. for the purpose of making up the ship's cargoes to this coon' s, ' there would be none sent from India. According to Montgomel Martin's returns, which he believed were pretty accurate, IT the year 1814, the amount of cotton manufactures reported revenue. s 0 . from Bengal was two millions. What did it amount to now t : Of so little importance was it considered, that according. to returns which had been moved for by Mr. Baring on the 2/M, of February last, of the amount of principal articles importeus during the last two years from India, the cotton manufacture ll were not included in it. Not only had this manuf acture India been destroyed, but this country had sent ° 1 , 1 . t cotton manufactures there to the amount of nearly eight millions, making a difference of ten millions in O R revenues of that country, with regard to cotton alonu: In the year 1814, the quantity of cotton twist India did not amount to eight pounds, and at the present oil, ment it was eight millions of pounds. It was clear, from a", this, that the British Government had ruined the trade He India with this country, by denying it common justi,ce. " regretted that, with the exception of some half dozed M e l' bers, there were no persons in the House of Commons to vocate the interests of th;s country ; and he regretted still aura. to observe the little interest which the present First Lord of t l . l l - Treasury took in its concerns, on the occasion of the India On being introduced. if there was any man more than another exported to_ who was bound to do justice to India and protect its trade Oc t manufactures it was Sir Robert Peel because his father e , l the first person who deluged' India with cotton g oods, g i t who, in the years 1810 and 1811, sent out a quantity, H arn° ll 4l ing to about 100,000/.—( Hear, and a laugh.) e C. F.) did not blame him for it, for he had himself a few Ye, / "; afterwards followed his example.—(Loud laughter.) had expressed his surprise to the late Baronet at his being' able to stud cotton goods there and sell them at so ebeal: a rate, but his reply was that they were lying on his h an . , ; „ o . and that he was very glad to get rid of them. It was sem= out these cotton goods, and selling them at so low a rate as rally to " astonish the natives," that had destroyed the India trade' He begged leave to suggest to the Hon. Chairman whe tb n , er s the petition might not be greatly improved by the ment i° " ot the article of coffee. There were also many others, aln °l4- r which pepper which paid the heavy duty of one shilling Pee lb., and an article which was now imported in la te quantities, viz., arrow-root ;on that imported from t , East Indies there was a duty of nineteen shillings per Hear, while the West India article paid only Id. per lb.—( be hear.) He would further suggest, that the petition shou ld presented to the House of Lords - as well as the House o f Co mons. Such was the course pursued on last occasion, and did not see why it should now be departed from. Let Eng len v grant that to India which she was offering to every other count' and which they spurned at and refused to receive with dis ° r o —let England grant reciprocity to India, and she will recova it with gratitude.—( Cheers.) He was not aware that he 11 % anything more to add. He was most grateful for the pat ie u l ' - v with which the Court had listened to him, and hoped t" e '. agreed to the suggestions he had taken the liberty of th'ressing Gut. pet' Mr. R. C. FERGUSON then rose and said the Hon. HU ° at ought not to draw his conclusions from the printed debategor the India question, as to the attention paid it by Hon. Ig e b o hers, for so great wis the apathy of the public upon i t t the editors of newspapers had found it unnecessary to at their columns with it ; to such an extent had that been carried that he had seen a debate Of se :la. or eight hours compressed into half a column. He e f i l io assure the Honourab e Baronet and the Court that nr" t he occasion had the question of Indian affairs come before ba d House, since he had had the honour of a scat in it, but he r, to the utmost of his ability supported the interests of Ind ia 1 01 commercial point of view, particularly when the question affe c s the interests of the natives—(Cheers)—and so long as b e lo able he would continue so. Even when connected with te, e° late Government he had given utterance to the same s lear meats. He trusted that they would get the same aoknow bet ment from the present President of the Boardof Trade a e t . . had got from his friend Mr. P. Thompson. /11 era' The CHAIRMAN said they had had interviews with ~ar bt went upon the subject of the duty upon coffee, and he tha t l e st there was a chance of relief. They should, howevertoof their claim for a reciprocity on sugar, and all the rest w o uld folow. By equalizing the duty the produce of India WO increase considerably. That of the Mauritius hid since 40 increased from 100,0001bs. to 550,00011)s. Thirty Yea rs t or. the imports of manufactures from India were two millions!„/ ; ling, of which the Company's investment was 1,500,0uv_.."01 but last year their imports were only 12,8001. The it - 0700 cotton manufactures into India were now 1,900,000/, an be had annihilated Indian manufactures. With recipro fa thcught India would still be able to supply heavy goo ds ro. this market ; without it it would be difficult for India t o nob vide for the political debt. Already India had been ta c it., drained of the precious metals, and a want was felt of a culating metallic currency. B r itish Mr. FIELDER thought runt ought to be included, as 7 w . skill and capital which raised sugar would produce rum a' it i o ubt Mr. WEEDING supported the petition. He had 11° age. of India being able to remit sufficient to meet all the ell ments of the East India Company. t ile The CHAIRMAN explained that as the China trade Patiodis dividends to the proprietors as well as the home charge s es of would now have to provide for the annuity, and the charfitot Law Commissioners, &c., and she would have in ret ur ,i c eas so much as the surplus of the commercial assets would re;uid in the shape of interest on the territorial property. Th at equal not be so much as 630,000/. per annum: India under duties would be able to make remittances. t a ti°' A PROPRIETOR contended that the commerce of a gre a ti i h 0 ber of people in India ought not to be allowed to Lang ;Vs meet the interest of any class, as a time might co me India would vindica te ELVILLE her riglAs. ; et tel° The 'Hon. Mr. M said as the great expel . ' ~, —e to pr going forward in the West Indies, this was a bad tial a , lre oa t tition for an equalization of dnty, and they ought to lei' sugar and ask generally for all the produce of India. /pig ht Mr. C. FERGUSSON said if they left out sugar 014 give up the petition altogether. td The CHAIRMAN agred in this opinion nse r " The petition was unanimously adopted . , coffee beinglto pre' as well as sugar ; and Mr. C. Fergusson was request ed sent and support it. DATLEYBURY COLLE. el i Mr. FIELDER said it was a disgrace to the Brit-sh,ba P° his t t bli to and might produce injurious consequences in India , ' t ett; College should be allowed to remain. The disgrace ° bo ys I be washed out immediately. There were forty-oneool the College, with forty-four Professors, DeputY -Pr i, O le masters, and attendants, at an annual expense of 8, l i c e, 1 1; averaged 4551. 10s. 9d. for each boy. The disciPi 1: O tt was greatly relaxed. The College, on the first 0 51 t t ' c i bei 96,000/., and in thirty-nine years the expense a i l l i s c u. 979,106/. He should give notice of a motion that t tis s lege should be abolished. n dell' lls for The CHAIRMAN deprecated the unqualified sc ;fete, eit, which had been made as to the morality of the C° ~ 0 I t hel . which no ground existed. Young men would be 1 0 ? c c e, I" - and whether at Oxford, Cambridge, or any other pig - would be guilty of improprieties. lit Mr. FIELDER said he should persevere ; and i , broag o Mr. TWINING regretted that suc h a c h arge should l' e co old forward, when three months must elapse before it refuted. ;,. a r e. THE JOUDPORE AFFAIR. c e,e A Proprietor asked if any despatches had been re t he of I, lative to this subject ? anxiety tc"' The CHAIRMAN said he could relieve the , desP s o lr Hon. Proprietor. He had received a demi-offici a l ', ha d ‘ 5 ,01 dated the sth of December, stating that the gnia" a ,,prc''" mitted, and consequently there was no reason t o r war.—The Court then adjourned. la, lit ----- - - —.- o s The public revenue of Wurtemberg, i r ° r t c est ° .,a financial year, show s a cons id era bl e sur plus. I l l or ins, a" have exceeded the esti ma t es b y t h e sum o f 377, 725 Ne t ' the receipt of last year by 394,549 florins.—Germaa _,---" 1 0.° B I THS. lady 0f J. vorli' On the 6th inst., in Grosvenor-street B , the ' Hoy, Esq., M.P., of a son, still-born. v.a., of On the 17th inst., the lady of Cecil Monro , -.--s • A bele - g terrace,'Regent's Park, of a son. ~ Jo" „ On the 13th inst., in Albion -street, Hyde-Park , '''. low tb of a daughter. On the 14th inst., at Goldi co t e H ouse , Warwick shire ' of # of Charles Sergison Smith, Esq., of a son and heir. ate.-.. 40 ' On the 13th inst., at I s li ng t on , Mrs. Henry o - 6 I°V' 13th inst., at Welwyn, the lady dau o g n ht t e h r e . Esq., of a daughter. Ile ( ' e by thetreet, On the 17th inst., at St. Mary's, Bryanstone-sql, iirolu i lose MARRIED. his eldest son, James King Simpkinson, ESq , James Simpkinson, Rector of St. Peter-le-Poor. 0. 1 ,, Coc, to A 741%100 rp er O f Henry FY l ' - fourth daughter of the late K. F. Mackenzie , Est',,,, At t° street, Portman-square, and formerly his Ala e ' General at the Island of Grenada. ty DIED. ha riel° A drew aton• in On the 10th inst., at Cheltenham, aged 17, A." ilooll. - 14. milton, only son of the late Lieut.-Colonel Andrew Bo t., o f, On the 17th inst., Commander Sir Peter Parker, aged 55. On the 13th inst., in Kemp Town, Brighton, W illi° l'el :lth,‘ Esq. re lict wel'f MarY , , c his On the 17th inst ,at Abele Grove, Epsom" t ow 00, lite John Wedderb . urn, Esq., of Devonshire-stree , go, Es O se n x, tl a i g e ed 6t 7 h o. inst., at Stonchouse, age" ' ''' '' ',„. l% i i g. °9sieut -Pe° '-5' M.A., formerly Professor of Belles Lettres at P ~._,,,, oi b M e Eit rc O v, n w th a e hl l o 6 r t t h h. inst., in his 83d year, Mr. Joseph Pli6 , Smith, w ho A jit AO, y w , ho nt was Quarry sl.aggo l n l e a r ll i , n na e n ar obl E em rid a g n e, s n f o a r ni th i i y , ag asen:clS l i t e . o r tt3 i b io e t of drinking a gallon of ale per day, independent and 6 :2 go:: , gyp, therefore drank the quantity of 228 hogshea,d! squirrel f o r f forty years. He also was huntsman to the ` ',V rida y, .. up in that part of the country ou every Good i' ol l° ' cessire years. ;;i i fiCi, 0 401 101=1,...." -- . - in ft D 0 Y`f . 0 the London: Printed and Published by 3 - g nu, s 112, Strand, at The Sun Office, of Middlesex. No.,11:1, Sts g ust 14 4 r" d tmti, to r ilo§ yelll%tiv.; ,et. t ITNIT Sher i t 0 , be will, utieles 1iti1 t..... bir To