The Sun. — London, England, 1865-02-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS—LAsT EVENING. The LORD CmiNcErzon took his seat on the woolsack at the usual hour. NEW COURTS OF LAW. The Earl of LONGFORD called the attention of the house to a return made relative to the num ber of persons which would be displaced by the building of the new courts of law. The return showed that 151 houses would be pulled down, and that I these houses contained 302 persons. On making inquiry relative to his return, he found that no mention was m ade of the lodgers. It appeared that although the house h o l ders were few the lodgers were many ; and w hat he des ire d was, that a further return should be ma de showing the actual number of persons who would be displaced. The LORD CHANCELLOR s aid he would make in quiry relative to the matter mentioned by the n ob le lord. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said the re turn was n ot at all in accordance- with the sta ndin g orders, which laid it down, that before a bill of the nature then under discussion was read a second time a return of the positive and actual number of pers ons displaced should be stated at lengt h, and also that it should show what accommodation had been made ;for the poor people. The return before them was altogether a perfect mockery. He hoped that the noble lord on the woolsack would insist on a better and fuller return being made. The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had been much struck with the numbers mentioned in the return, but he would see that a new return was made. THE DEFENCE OF CANADA. Lord LYVEDEN asked what had been done, or what her Majesty's Government intended to do, with respect to the report of Col. Jervois on the defences of Canada. The conclusion he drew from the report was that Canada was in an entirely defenceless condition. He did not know what would have happened had General Dix's order been carried out. He approved certainly of the principles of neutrality being strictly followed out, but he feared there had grown a dislike to England in America, because it appear+d there to be the feeling that he that was not for us was against us. The noble earl (Derby) had already referred to the im portant results that were likely to arise from the suspension, by annexation, of the provisions of the treaty of 1817. The notice that America intended that suspension had been given in November, so that in May next it was just possible that America mi,ghb have a fleet of gunboats on thoselake's Lake Ontario was the most important to England, and he should like to know what provisions the Government had made to have a fleet of gunboats there, and what steps they had taken to defend their own against any hostile fleet that might be placed there by America. He:thought it was high time that the most vigorous measures should taken to protect the Canadas from attack. Earl DE GREY and RIPON—My lords, I quite agree with the noble lord who has just sat down that the question is one of great importance. I also agree with him that the question is surrounded with great difficulty. My noble friend says that her Majesty's Government was guilty of an official indiscretion in having laid this report upon the table of both Houses of Parliament. Now, I will state the grounds upon which we took that step, observing, in the first instance, that if we are guilty of official indiscretion in the production of this report, I think my noble friend is open to the charge of indiscretion, inasmuch as in his speech he has spoken in terms of the Government of the United States and of the motives likely to actuate them in certain circumstances, which perhaps it would have been as well if he had not employed. (Hear, hear.) And mare over, as of certain grounds upon which he imagines that the peace negotiations recently going on were based, which as far as I know had no foundation except in the tele-: graphic reports received from day to day by the American newspapers, and which are not very frequently confirmed. I shall not therefore notice the speech of my noble friend except so far as it is associated with the facts of the case. The report of Col. Jervoise contains a statement—no doubt a serious statement—of the real facts of the case; but I must tell your lordships that after all there is nothing in this re port not perfectly well known to those who had previously considered the question from the public documents laid before other assemblies and speeches made in other coun tries. But, my lords, as we proposed to ask the Parliament of this country and the Legislative Assembly of Canada to bear their respective shares of the expenditure necessary for the defences of the provinces, we felt it was necessary, to lay before Parliament the ground on which we made the proposition, and that was the object which we had in pro ducing this report. Therefore, I must say Ido not think that her Majesty's Government was at all guilty of that portion of the indictment preferred against us by my noble friend. That brings me to reply to the question he has put. The report consists of two parts; first, relative to the de fences of the fortress of Quebec, and second to the improve ment of the fortress of Montreal and the defence of the western portion of the country from that point. This re port has received the serious consideration of the Govern ment, and we have informed our representative in Canada (Lord Monck) that we intended to apply to Parliament this year for a sum of money for the improvement of the fortifications of Quebec, and that we looked to the Canadian Government to take steps for the fortifications of Montreal, and for the erection of other works that might be necessary to the westward of that important place. The Earl of DERBY—What about Halifax ? Earl DE GREY and RIPON—I will speak of Halifax presently. lam now confining myself to Quebec and Montreal. The proposal was that we should undertake the expenses of the defences of Quebec, which was always con sidered an Imperial fortress. In former days that fortress was strong and adequate to the times ; but it had grown inadequate to the circumstances of the present day, and re quired attention and improvement. That work we take upon ourselves. The Canadian Government are made aware of the obligations that rest upon them, and I have reason to suppose that they will place themselves in a posi tion to meet the emergency of the case. With respect to the point advocated by the noble earl opposite (the Earl of Derby), there has been a vote for the defence of Halifax for many years upon our army estimates, and there will be a large sum in the estimates for the present year. It is quite true that the arrangements made in Canada with re spect to the militia were by no means satisfactory, but my noble friend must recollect that since the period to which he refers a new Government has been formed in Canada, which entertains much wider views than its predecessors, and, according to the information which I have received, is determined to turn their attention to this question, and to take means to place the militia in a state of efficiency. With respect to the ballot, I am enabled to state that not the mustering of the troops, but the first process of the ballot has already taken place. Lord LYVEDEN—How many men have been balloted for ? Earl DE GREY and RIPON—I cannot exactly say al this moment. There is no doubt but the Government of Canada are determined to do their duty as regards the ques tion of the militia, and her Majesty's Government will afford all the encouragement with respect to the formation of the training schools for militia officers that may be required. The details of the formation of that force, and of the volun teers, will rest entirely in the hands of the Canadians. I think it possible that this system may be carried out, asking the men to submit to the sacrifice of leaving their own homes and going to long distances. My noble friend (Earl Gran ville) tells me that the has just ascertained that for 80,000 men the ballot has been taken, and that the training of the officers was going on satisfactorily. The Canadian Govern ment proposed to extend the system of schools for the militia, and her Majesty's Government will afford every facility for doing so. We are entitled to ask Parliament to incur certain expenses for the defence of Canada ; but at the same time we do not think that this country should be called upon to undertake the whole of the cost. The North American colonies have made a considerable stride in a short time. They are show ing a spirit of loyalty and statesmanship which is most creditable to them and gratifying to this country. w e b e .. lieve that the Government of Canada will respond to the call made upon them, and that measures will be taken in a short time to place the North American colonies in an ade quate position of defence. The Earl of DERBY — My lords, I feel the state of o w relations with the Federa l States of America to be so criti calt that for my own part I s hould have been desirouso maintain an absolute silence , and to leave to her Majesty's Government the responsibility of the difficult and delicate position in which we are placed, lest any i n t er ference on our Part might lead possibly to increased embarrassmn accordingly on the occasion of the moving of the Address to the Crown, I contented myself with pointing out simply what I believe to be the threatening state of affairs—not ex pressing any opinion whatever as to the cours e p ursued, out • eaving to her Majesty's of the position Government the responsibility hear. , and the precautions to be adopted. (Hear, ques tion raised by now Jtak'enta step lords, her Majesty's Government have the noble I think entirely justifies the ques neoble lord opposite. Because when her this and the other got have officially Majesty's Government the defenceless state of ff Parliament a report showing laid on the table of provinces, and thereby calling Dueof o ur most i mpor t an t the att en ti on of th i s king dom and of for e i gn countries to that d e f enceless state, her Majesty's Gove rnment themselves appear to invite formally a discussion upon that subject, and to ask th e op i n i on of Parliament, I do not mean t o say members as the expression of the opinion o f (, Tudivid°al taken, but to the responsibility of that position. Rear hear.) I cannot but think that it was the intention jesty's Government that we should enter upon oithie h er largeM Ma_ critical question, involving, as it does, theneewxpe ce n diture of large sums of money, and inaugurating a policy altogether. I also think that the subject wasumu rse of more worthy of being noticed in the Speech from cil the Throne than any of those comparatively unimportant questions which formed the staple of that document. (Hear.) I will not pretend to say that the communication of that most unsatisfactory report is likely to afford to your lordships information which you were not already in pos session of. At the same time I think it is humiliating to this country to set forth officially the utterly unprepared and defenceless state in which one of our most important possessions is kept, at a moment when the question of peace and war depends, not upon the calm consideration of friendly Governments, but upon the excited passions of THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 21, 1865. popular assemblies of a nation which, whether rightly or wrongly, does entertain, to a very great extent, hostile feel ings towards this country. (Hear.) I think her Majesty's Government, in laying that paper before th 3 ht use, have given to it a character far more important than if they had left the subject to the universal knowle lge which exists of the state of affairs, and had contented themselves with silently and quietly taking the steps necessary to counteract the danger which it is too plain her Majesty's Government now apprehend. (Hear, hear.) I do not complain, nor never have complained of the course of neutrality which her Majesty's Government have pursued between the two con tending powers of North America. But, looking as Ido with the utmost horror to the possibility of a war between this country and the Federal States, or this country and the United States—if such a reunion be possible—l must say I think that her Majesty's Government have been slow to take steps, with the symptoms of increasing dissatisfaction and discontent which have been brought to their notice and of increasing menace on the part of the United States—l say I think they have been slow to make adequate preparations to meet the danger, which now they confess to be one of a real and substantial character. (Hear, hear.) There is one point to which the noble earl adverted, but which I think deserves more attention than he has given to it—l mean our state of preparation at Halifax. What has taken place with regard to that ? They state that up to the present time thew has been an agreement by which an absolutely insignificant naval force should be maintained at either side. But just before the commencement of the season, when it was impossible to take any decisive measures on our Part, steps were taken by the Federal authorities in abso lute and direct violation of the conditions of the treaty. It is true that the American Government have declared that it was not their intention to violate the treaty beyond the period when they found it absolutely necessary for their own security. But they have taken upon themselves to violate the treaty without previous notice to her Majesty's Government. They have, in violence of the treaty, placed vessels upon the lakes which menace the security of Canada, and they have not given, so far as I am aware, any reasons which might seem to render necessary the infraction of the solemn conditions of the treaty. They simply contend that this suspension of the treaty should not last longer than the period of absolute necessity. But, at the same time, they take steps which will enable them to carry on that period of supposed necessity as long as they think fit, and after the period of six months from notice of the suspension they will be in a state of perfect liberty to place upon the lakes any force theymay think proper, and her Majesty's Government, as far as we know, have taken no measures to place themselves in a similarstate of preparation. I ask her Majesty's Govern ment, do they take credit for having made preparations to meet these difficulties ? God forbid they should prove to be real difficulties ? God forbid they should be confirmed, in point of fact ! But there are those threatening circum stances, these eventualities to be provided against. Her Majesty's Government admit by the fact of coming down to Parliament at the eleventh hour to ask for the means of erecting fortifications to supply that which is an absolute necessity—they admit, I say, that they see the danger, and they say that that danger can only be successfully en countered by a large contribution on the part of the Canadian Government and that of other provinces. But, as Colonel Jervoise truly observes, men are not sufficient without fortifications, and that fortifications for Montreal and Quebec are objects of peremptory and pressing import ance. Connected with this subject there is one point of great importance—namely, that the Americans should not, in the event of a rupture, be permitted to have, in the first instance, the command of the lakes. You now admit the necessity of fortifications to which you never turned your attention during the whole period that these unfor tuuate events have been going on, although you must have known that in certain events the amicable relations be tween this country and the United States would be inter rupted. You have taken no steps up to the presentmoment to provide the fortifications of which you now speak. And even now, when we know there is a preponderating American force on the lakes, I do not believe any measures have been adopted to place a force on the lakes sufficient to meet that danger. Although a rupture might take place at any moment, I am not aware that any steps have been taken to meet the danger by land, and none whatever have been adopted to meet the danger which threatens you by water, and which, as I say, may come upon you at any moment. (Hear, hear.) As far as I understood the sketch which the noble earl gave of the intentions of her Majesty's Government, it is intended to ask Parliament for the sum of X 200,000. I believe that is the estimate for the defences of Quebec. EarlDE GREY and RIPON—OnIy X 50,000 this year. The Earl of DERBY—OnIy X 50,000 this year ! Then I want to know from the noble earl when he thinks this danger threatens us ? (Hear.) Is it imminent, or is it one which may be apprehended in three or four years ? You ask for X 50,000, and you say the whole will cost £200,000, and the Canadian Government are to expend £400,000, or £500,000 more on the fortifications of Montreal, which you say are more urgent and more pressing than Quebec. And then the noble earl astonishes us by telling us that seeing this threatening aspect of affairs her Majesty's Govern meut are about to erect works which will cost £200,000, but that they are going to ask for only £50,000. Ido not know whether even X 50,000 will be asked for; perhaps it may drop down to X 20,000, so that in the course of ten years these fortifications, upon which they safety of the pro vince depends, may possibly be constructed. (Hear, hear.) Whereas the danger, if danger there be, is one which may be realised not in the course of years but of months. (Hear, hear.) My lords, I deprecate as much as any man can do the utterance of language which could increase the exasperation or any ill-feeling which may, or as I am afraid does, does prevail on the part of the United States towards this country. But it is the part of common prudence to'be prepared against a danger absolutely and imminently threatening, and I must say that neither in anything that her Majesty's Government have done, or, as far as I understand, in what they propose to do, have they taken adequate steps to meet that which they consider to be a great and impending danger. I think it possible that, in a pecuniary sense, the western provinces of Canada are rather a drain upon our resources, but the influence of this would not be felt if a large and powerful confederation should be formed. If Canada were to manifest a desire to take violent steps to separate from this country, I do not think it would be desirable for the mother country—l do not think it would be for our honour or interests—to en deavour to retain her in unwilling and reluctant associa tion with us ; but, so long as she is desirous of remaining in union with us we are bound, by the ties both of duty and of honour, to the utmost of our power, to second their efforts ; because I thing that the possession of the naviga tion of the St. Lawrence, and the occupation of Newßrun swick and the rest of the seaboard of the America colonies is, to a maritime country like this, of the utmost importance, and is a question far too great to be considered merely as one of money and of economy. (Hear.) Therefore I donot think it unimportant whether this country remains con nected with Canada or not, and I say it would be a lasting disgrace to this country—it would be an ignominy to which I trust she would not submit—to allow that upon any pre text whatever these provinces should be suddenly, while in a defenceless state, turned over to their own care, and exposed to the possible invasion of a foreign country,whose good-will we have endeavoured, however unsuccessfully, to propitiate, if not by strict neutrality, at any rate by a neutrality more favourable to the North than to the South. I say that, under such circumstances, to allow that colony to be wrested from us without putting fc7rth the full strength of the empire to repel every attempt at invasion, would be a gross and lasting disgrace and ignominy which. I hope this country would never suffer. (Cheers.) Earl GRANVILLE—I feel that this is not only an im portant question, but one which must be approached with considerable delicacy. As to the complaints that the Go vernment have been guilty of indiscretion in laying this report before Parliament, I do not see how it was possible for Government to ask Parliament for money unless they had placed before them the information contained in this document. My noble friend the Secretary for War stated, with great truth, that it was necessary to give some state ment of this sort to enable the Government of Canada to make application to the Imperial Government. The no bl e earl opposite says th a t if t hi s great and sudden change of in inqui ry h jct o s policy was to be adopted by he r M a j es t y ' s Gove eiat it s d h e o u ul y d th h a a t v t e he b r e e e h n es ann bee o u un a ce ny d su in eh th cha e Queen's e hs S s Pe b e e ' e h. f I f the timedefen pe ceo s. 1 amsure there of Canada has been none of anxious is nopeer who will deny that Canada is bound to t a k e a part, and house who a some considerable part, in providing the defence necessary to protect herself from the attacks of a hostile force. What has been the case ? The Government of Canada at one time de clined to do this. It is only recently that we have had a Government with which we could deal on this subject, and it was not until that Government came forward with commendable public spirit—(hear, hear)—that we could bring the subj ect under the notice of Parliament, and ask to a colony which formerly declined them to grant money proofs of the good has been changed, and I rejoice in the to put forth efforts to protect i tself. This state of thin gs sati s factory to observe that one of the clauses a g reed u p on mo ther country. It is very by the delegates of the f ee ling that now exist s between the colony and the • o es was to the effect British North Am erican Prom tha t the Impe e ria that all engagements entered into w can be m g ore decisive as ment. (Hear, hear.) Not hin g fel low subjects in G overnme nt should be assumed by the eneral G o vrn -1 showing the honourable feeling of our North America. With referenc e to the limited naval to be maintained by the two Governments respective y force on the lakes between Canada and the States, it was not until November that we had received notice from the Ameri can Government of their desire to put an end to that arrangement. Tha noble earl says there has been a very great violation of the treaty. That was a very strong of the treaty ex pressiongof to use. The American Government may have a rneevenuurteheuerttteharnupteythoeuglahktetsobehyaovneddtohneein maintaining ratfonnandie wisest and most alu a r stipulated naval fo rce, but they allege that they have committed no violation re that in treating these questions the course is to treat them with the believe this would not di mi nish greatest calmness. (Hear.) I aid to Canada i n the minish our heartiness in sending which may God ave possi ble our but terrible alternative-- being engaged in war with the United States. If, reta a a parent, Canada should still wishge position of a child to to re • main connected with us, and should hold herself prepared to take her full share of the burden, I believe that the mother country will stand by her, and I believe that a great country like Eng land ought to come forward in time of need to assist the efforts of such a dependency. (Cheers.) Lord LYT TEL TON thought that, from the complexion which events had recently assumed on the American con tinent, it was evident that no time should be lost in put ting Canada into a proper state of defence. The danger which threatened that country might be imminent, and he did not think it could be maintained that £200,000 was an extravagant sum for the mother country to contribute to wards placing the fortifications of the province on a proper footing. The Earl of MALMESBURY—I think that if the Go vernment are really in earnest in this matter, it must be confessed that the sum proposed to be devoted for the first year to the defence of Quebec is a most trumpery one. I understand that it is proposed, in the first instance, to make a grant of £200,000, but I fear that amount will be feund quite inadequate, inasmuch as the works intended to be executed ought to be completed in a short time. I under stand that the army is to be reduced, not by any large number of men, but still to be reduced. It should be re membered that the military force specially needed in Canada is infantry, and the Imperial Government ought to obtain from the Colonial Government a guarantee to provide such a force, for artillery, stores, and means of transport might be readily furnished from the mother country. It is the duty of the Government to be prepared for any emergency that may arise if a sudden end shall be put to the war which has for so many years raged in America. There seems to have been an opinion widely prevalent that that war was commenced to ensure the emancipation of the slaves, but I think that delusion must have disappeared from the mind of every man within the last three weeks. It is now admitted that the contest is for independence on one side and for un divided dominion on the other. If the delusion did ever exist, that at the conclusion of this war the Americans would sit down quietly and disband their armies, it must by this time have disappeared, for they have shown, indisputably, an insatiable ambition for dominion, whether that desire shall seek to develop itself in the acquisition of territory to the south, to the north, to the east, or to the west. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—I think it would be well for her Majesty's Government to consider in what position the Confederates would be now if they had acted on the principle on which her Majesty's Government are acting at this conjuncture. The Confederates did not suffer themselves to be caught unprepared, as was at once shown by the readiness with which they threw up fortifications at Charleston, at Mobile, at Wilmington, and elsewhere. If they had proceeded on the supposition that ample time would be allowed them the Confederate generals would, long before this, have been overwhelmed, and their armies would have ceased to exist. We are in this position—that if the people of Canada are really desirous to maintain their connection with this country, as they seem to be, and if they are willing to put forward their best efforts, we are bound in honour to give them our assistance. (Hear, hear.) I deeply lament the position in which we are placed. I deprecate war with America as fatal to the best interests of both countries, and incapable of producing the slightest benefit—(hear, hear)—but we may be compelled by honour to engage in these hostilities. But the Canadians must do something more than merely express the desire of being united with this country ; they must take steps that may lead to the provision of a sufficient defensive force. Unless they are prepared to come forward, as the inhabitants of the Southern States have come forward, by the exertions of every man among them in the defence of what is most dear to them, not only their property, but the safety and honour of their families will be endangered. Unless they are prepared to go to that extent, though honour may oblige us to assist them, real, effectual assistance it is im possible for us to give. Canada must be defended by Ca nadians. If this be not so we shall lose many of the noble men we send out to their assistance, and the honour of this country will also suffer in the destruction of the inadequate force provided for the defence of Canada. These are my feelings, and I hope they are shared by others. But this danger, if it come, may come at any moment, for which we might be preparing at this hour. I fear that nothing we can do can avert this danger. There is no one in the country who can see what may be its end, and I must say it is to me almost incredible that the Government should be satisfied with voting £50,000 for the purpose of providing for one year one-fourth of the cost of the defence of a place which must be the point of disembarka tion for our troops if war should ensue. This is no new subject, at least as regards former Governments, even if it should be so to the Government now in office. If her Majesty's Ministers were to look through the records of their several offices they would find —though I do not know in what office—that from the year 1828 to the period of his decease some records of the opinions of the Duke of Wellington with respect to the defence of Canada. I recol lect a communication of the Duke of Wellington on that subject so far back as 1828. I know that he thought very deeply and strongly upon the subject, and I hope that when the Government are preparing measures for the defence of Canada they will not be satisfied with the report laid on the table, but will consult the opinions recorded by the Duke of Wellington. (Hear, hear.) Earl RUSSELL—I regret very much that my noble friend thought it requisite to bring on this discussion. The Government are supposed to have brought forward a dis patch showing the weakness of Canada. Tie course her Majesty's Government have taken is this—that, having to provide a remedy for the weakness of Canada, they pro duced a dispatch showing what it was to which they pro posed to apply a remedy. This is a question of a vote of money, of a considerable vote for the first year, which may come to be a very large sum in future years. In order to obtain the assent of the House of Commons to such a proposal, it was necessary to show both the necessity and that the remedy proposed to be applied should be efficient. The noble earl opposite has complained very much of the vote not being taken previously. The noble earl says two things are to be considered—the one that Canada cannot be defended without improved resources and improved for tifications, and the other that the people of Canada should themselves contribute largely to defend their own soil from invasion. If the Government had come forward three years ago and had asked Parliament for a large vote, would not the great body of the House of Commons have said, "What have the Canadians done ? Have they organised a militia ?" The answer would have been—" No." "Have they made preparations, or are they disposed to make preparations to join in their defence, and to contribute to the expense ?" The answer would again have been in the negative. Could we as a Government be expected to obtain a large vote from the House of Commons under these circumstances? (Hear, hear.) The noble lord says we ought quietly and secretly to have made these preparations. What! have pro cured £200,000 quietly and silently! I do not know how the First Lord of the Treasury could have got the money quietly and silently, keeping it secret and not mentioning it. I contend therefore that these charges are totally void of any solid foundation. When my lamented friend Sir G. Lewis was at the War-office he had the subject constantly in his thoughts. The state of the position of Canada oc curred to him as it occurred to all who held office since this Government was formed. Towards the end of the past year a new spirit was displayed among the people of Canada, and indifference gave place to devoted loyalty, and the strongest desire was expressed to form a confederation. The utmost readiness was also shown to furnish the means for fortifying Canada and to raise 90,000 or 100,000 militiamen. When this disposition appeared Government thought it their duty to submit this measure to the House of Commons, and I hope they will approve the grounds on which it is founded. The noble earl censured the Government for proposing so small a grant as £50,000, but the grounds of that proposal will soon be fully laid before Parliament. I repeat that I regard it as a matter to be lamented that my noble friend should have brought the question forward at this time. The Government, however, are entirely of opinion with the noble earl opposite, that if the Canadians are ready to stand by Canada this country is bound in honour to stand by Canada—if they are ready to grant theii resources to preserve their connection with Great Britain, we ought to be ready to spend our resources to defend them, because this .is a question not only of interest but of honour. With regard to the statement of the noble earl (Malmes bury) that this was a war of conquest and for the abolition. of slavery, I must say that for my part I have always thought, and stated it as my opinion at the commencement of the civil war, that this was a contest for empire. (Hear, hear.) And just as I believe the contest which we carried on in 1776, and continued until 1783, was a contest for empire, and nothing else, so also I believe that in the same manner as we acted then the United States have acted now, and if our position were similar to theirs we should have acted in a similar way as that in which the American States have acted. Ido not wish to say anything with regard to the question, which I must say the noble earl opposite raised in no very impartial spirit, with-regard to the attacks which, from time to time were made in the American Congress, and in a more marked manner in the American Senate, upon the conduct of this country ; but this I may say, that whatever may be the intemperance of certain orators in the Congress and Senate, and whatever may be the unjust and extreme violence manifested by cer tain portions of the United States press, I cannot .think the United States Government has been wanting in moderation of conduct. But when the American Minister asks me, if you were at war with any European power, and vessels were to come out of New York and cruise against your commerce, and burn your merchant vessels, would you, the English people, submit to the matter exactly as our Government have done ? I admit it is somewhat difficult to answer the question ; for, though in point of law and in point of reason the United States have nothing to say, yet in point of feeling and in point of impression it is humiliat ing and provoking to them to consider that a friendly nation and a neutral nation should have allowed to be fitted out vessels in its ports to cruise against their ports and vessels and to the injury to their commerce. (Hear, hear.) It becomes us, as we see everything British to be right and then consider what would be our conduct under American to be wrong, that we should • tances, and make some allowance for a similiar arc d in a most dreadful w . ar Considering people engage nowand everything think we could expect to act as they have done. With in our own country, I do not the feelings which prevail regard • e and not for the this has been a war for empir most fortunate aboli tioncircum- of slavery, I think it is a to the question of slavery, ough I admit that stance, if it be nothing more, that the Congress of the United States, by a majority of two-thirds, have agreed that for ever slavery or enforced labour shall cease to be part of the constitution of the United States, and that 'no slavery shall hereafter be permitted under that constitu tion. (Cheers.) Ido not ask you to give the Congress any praise or credit for that act ; but I confess that I rejoice for the sake of the cause, for the sake of aquestion in which this country at least in former years took a deep interest ; for the sake of a subject which concerns the best interests of mankind—l say that I rejoice that alaw for the abolition of slavery has been passed by the Congress of the United States of America, and that whether they once more be come an united people, or be a separate Northern nation, there will be a great people, a mighty republic, in which the stain of slavery shall cease to exist. (Cheers.) The Earl of DERBY—With regard to thequestion of the abolition of slavery which has been raised in this debate, I may say that I should sincerely rejoice if the war should lead to this result ; but I wish to call the attention of her Majesty's Government to one part of the question of the noble lord (Lyveden) to which no answer has been made, and I wish to know whether her Majesty's Government have taken or propose to take any steps in the face of the preparations on the part of the American Government to I assert a naval superiority on the lakes. The Duke of SOMERSET said perhaps the noble earl was aware that the notice from the American Government to increase their armament on the lakes reached this coun try at the end of November, and that this increase would take place at the end of six months from the notice being given. At that time it was not possible for her Majesty's Government to increase their vessels owing to the rivers and canals being frozen over. He (the Duke of Somerset) had been for the past two or three years in communication with naval officers of experience on this subject, and when the proper time came he would be prepared to state what course her Majesty's Government would take on the sub ject. (Hear, hear.) The Earl of LONGFORD called the attention of their lordships to a matter of great importance in connection with the defence of Canada—namely, the opening up the main route between the Atlantic and Pacific on British ter ritory. This would cost more than £‘50,000, but had been under the consideration of more than one Government. The emigrants from Great Britain to the United States amounted to 147,000, and to-British provinces only 30,000. The utmost encouragement ought to be given to British emigrants to go to Canada instead of a foreign country. The Earl of HARROWBY said, it appeared from the re port of Col. Jervoise that £1,340,000 would be required for the defences which he recommended ; and from the state ment of her Majesty's Government it would seem that only £50,000 was to be voted this year. He would be glad to know if this was the case. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said £50,000 was a very small sum to ask for at present, but would be glad to know if this amount was to be concentrated on the fortifications of Quebec, or to be dribbled away by being scattered over the defence of the entire country. It would be necessary to raise earthworks on the St. Lawrence at a sufficient dis tance from Quebec. Earl DE GREY and RIPON said the amount to be asked for would be spent on the fortifications of Quebec, and would not be dribbled away in tie defences of Canada. But with. respect to the vote to be a:: ed this year, though noble lords complained that the sum asked for was a small one, they must be aware that it would be impossible to spend £200,000 in one year. The working season in Canada, owing to the nature of the ctmate, was necessarily short, and at the commencement the Government could not spend so much on the works as they could with advantage when they had made some progress. Thore was land, for instance, to be purchased. The officers of the fortification departments whom he had consulted thought that the sum of £50,000 was as much as could be spent in the present season, but that a greater proportion could be spent in a subsequent year. The object was to erect works as rapidly as was consistent with their permanent nature, and her Majesty's Government could apply to Parliament for as much as the scientific officers thought necessary. Lord LYVEDEN said he did not agree with the opinion expressed by the noble earl the secretary for Foreign Affairs upon the policy of originating the discussion which had arisen from this question. It was of importance to have elicited the views of the noble lords who had taken part in it, and if the noble earl had been in his(LordLyve den's) position it would have been the kind of discussion which he would have been glad to provoke. The subject then dropped. The house adjourned at 10 minutes to 7 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING. The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The standing orders were declared to have been com plied with in the case of several private bills : The following bills were read a second time :—Aberyst with and Welsh Coast Railway ; Afon Valley Railway ; Bromley Gas ; Bury Saint Edmunds and Thetford Railway; Cambrian Railways (Coast Extension) ; Carnarvon New Water; Chesterfield, Newbold, and Dunstone Road ; Clitheroe and West Riding Junction Railway; County Antrim and Belfast Borough; Deal and Dover Railway ; Fareham Gas; Glasgow and South Western Railway (City of Glasgow Union); Glasgow (City) Union Railway ; Goole, Keadby, and Haxey Junction Railway ; Great Eastern (Additional Powers) ; Great Eastern Railway (Bishop Stortford, erc. Railways ; Great Eastern Railway eomer;ham to Ramsey); Hastings and St. Leonard's Gas Heysham Railway aml_Pier ; Horseforth Water; Kidder• minster, Stourport, and Bewdley Water; King's Lynn Docks and Railway ; Kircudbrfght Railway ; Lancashire and Yorkshire, Midland, and Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax Junction Railways ; Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway and Lancashire Union Railways Com panies; Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway; Luton Water ; Mistley, Thorpe, and Walton Railway ; Newcastle-upon 2 ryne Improvement ; North Eastern Rail- w ay (Gilling, Helmsley, and Pickering Branch) ; North Staffordshire Railway ; Ogmore Valley and Ely Valley Extension Railway Companies ; Pontypool, Caerleon, and Newport Railway ; Ross and Monmouth Railway ; Ross Improvement ; St. Alban's Water ; St. John's Chapel (Port sea) ; Shrewsbury Bridges ; South Kensington New Road; South Northumberland Railway ; South Wales and Great Western Direct Railway; Southwark and Vauxhall Water; Southmark Bridge "Transfer; Swansea Vale and Neath and Breckon Junction Railway ; Tooting, Merton, and Wimbledon Extension Railway ; Torquay Gas ; Tyne Improvement ; West Worthing Improvement ; West Yorkshire Railway ; Wimbledon Common ; Wolverhamp ton and Bridgnorth Railway ; and Wolverhampton and . North Staffordshire Jnnction Railway. Severel private bills were read a first. time. Colonel WILSON moved the following new Standing Order :—" All questions before committees on private bills shall be decided by a majority of voices, and whenever the voices are equal the question shall be decided in the negative." He said that when the discussion took place on this subject in the house the other evening, the majority was in favour of the number of members on committees being reduced to four instead of three, and it was to give effect to the wishes of that majority that he made the present motion, not having any private feeling in the matter whatever. His object was to save the time of hon. members, and to introduce the same prac tice that prevailed in the courts of law and the House of Lords. The change which he proposed would be merely an experiment, and, if found to be unsuccessful, the house could revert to its original practice. Mr. HODGSON opposed the motion. Mr. ROBERTSON considered the change proposed ob jectionable, because it would diminish the responsibility of the chairman. Mr. A. MILLS agreed with the last speaker, and thought the chairman should have a casting vote. Mr. BRIGHT said that the motion, if agreed to, would have the effect of neutralising the influence of the chairman of the committee, who generally paid more attention to the subject than his colleagues, and he would feel his respon sibility leis than he did before. That would be a great loss to those who were engaged in promoting bills, which they did at great trouble, and which, if they involvedjarge schemes, might be supposed to be of public importance. (Hear, hear.) He contended that it would be more desir able that, in the case of an equality of votes in a commit tee, the presumption was in favour of the bill. Mr. M. GIBSON was opposed to an alteration from the original number of five, and he agreed with hon. memberS who thought the chairman should have a casting vote. After some further discussion, Col. W. PATTEN replied, and said there were 595 bills before the house this session, and the committee of selection would have the greatest difficulty in securing the attendance of hon. members. The motion was negatived, and so were some others re lative to changes in the standing orders. GRIEVANCES OF INDIAN OFFICERS. Col. SYKES presented a petition on this subject, pray ing for a redress of grievances of which they have so long complained. THE DUTY OF FIRE INSURANCE. Mr. NEWDEGATE presented a petition from the local board of guardians in favour of a reduction of the duty on fire insurances. Several other petitions were presented to the same effect. COURTS, OFFICES, AND BUILDINGS. Mr. POWELL:moved for a return of certain particulars respecting present courts and offices proposed to be trans ferred to the Commissioners of Public Works and Build ings, or to become available for other public purposes in accordance with the provisions of Courts of Justice Build ing Bill, 1865, and Courts of Justice Concentration (Site) Bill, 1865, or either of them ; and of Buildings in the occu pation of legal departments to be hereafter accommodated in the New Courts, in accordance with the provisions of the said bills, or either of them ; the return to give in separate columns the situation of each block of building containing such courts, offices, and buildings ; and the purpose to which each court, office, and building is now assigned.—Ordered. GOVERNOR OF WAKEFIELD GAOL. Mr. NEATE gave notice of a motion on this subject. THE LAW OF MARRIAGE. Sir G. O'LOGHLEN asked if it was the intention of the Government to introduce this session any measure to re- gulate the law of marriage in the United Kingdom, or to institute any inquiry with a view to future legislation ? Sir G. GREY said that her Majesty's Government had been applied to on the subject, whicbwould be referred to a committee. _ • _ . SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS. TIDIES.—Those who believe that Governments have a natural tendency to extravagance, and run after every new idea regardless of the cost, should read the discussion which took place in the House of Lords last night with respect to the defences of Ca nada. The form in which the subject presents itself to the ordinary apprehension of Englishmen will hardly prepare them for the criticisms of some of the Peers on the alleged shortcomings of the Go vernment. When the public hear of Canadian de fences, they experience nothing but a feeling of uneasiness and perplexity. They know that there is a vast tract of territory on the other side of the Atlantic, conterminous with an aggressive, menac ing, and now warlike Republic. They are aware that it is subject to the Queen of Great Britain, and that by the traditions of the Empire and by the law of nations we are bound to defend it against every aggressor, while it is liable to attack as often as we fall into a quarrel ourselves. They also know, and reflect with a feeling of mingled pride and embar rassment, that the people of these British American Provinces are anxious to maintain their connexion with the mother country ; that they are not unwil ling to take up arms in their own defence, and are, on the other hand, fully confident that we shall on every occasion of trouble to themselves rush with fleets and armies to their help. The position of these loyal fellow-subjects with respect to our own people puzzles even practical politicians. They give the United Kingdom their good wishes and nothing more. They legislate for themselves, and in so doing show little favour to Imperial interests. In fact, the English trader stands in no better posi tion with regard to them than his rival of France or America. With the United States, indeed, the Provinces were, until the other day, connected by treaty regulations, which brought the two countries closer to each other commercially than either is to England. Accordingly, when Canadian defences are talked about the British public are not in a very cheerful humour. People do not want to do any thing ungenerous ; they do not want to repudiate obligations, or abandon those who have a claim on their protection ; but there is, we must say, a very deep feeling that the connexion between the mother country and the colony ought not to mean the expenditure of large sums by Eng land for the defence of territories three thousand miles away from its shores. At the time of the Trent affair a large force was despatched in the dead of winter at a heavy cost to the national exchequer ; but that was in a quarrel of our own, and though the burden and the danger was not unfelt, the public was willing to submit to them. But.greater obligations than these may at any time be laid on us through some local dispute, such as latelybrought on Canada the threats of a Federal general. These things make people reflect seriously on 'the military liabilities which the country incurs by guaranteeing the defence of the American provinces, and lead them to desire the recognition of the principle that on land at least the Canadians should undertake to protect their own soil. Thus when Col. Jervois makes his report, and tells the Government what large sums are necessary for the fortification of the chief places in Canada, the first question the public asks itself is, whether Canada cannot do without them, and the next whether, supposing this to be impossible, Canada cannot construct them for her self. They are no trifles, indeed. Canada, though with but a small population, has a long frontier ; in fact, it may be described as being all frontier, and as being vulnerable all over. There is hardly a village or a farm in the country that is more than a few days' march from some spot which may be reached at once by a party of Federal soldiers. Hence the magnitude of the works, which if executed by the provinces will be a real financial burden to them, and if taken in hand by us will add conside rably to our estimates for years to come. Colonel Jervois says that he regards the works for the de fences of Montreal and Quebec as being of the most pressing importance. The cost of those at Quebec is to be £200,000, of those at Montreal at £443,000, and the armaments at those places will cost about £lOO,OOO. The works of fortification recom mended at Kingston, Toronto, and Hamilton will cost about £500,000, and the armaments for those places about £lOO,OOO. Thus on fortifications for Canada alone it is purposed to expend £1,343,000, which any one acquainted with the history of such matters is well aware will extend to at least a couple of millions. Now, of this sum her Majesty's Government propose to supply £2oo,ooo—the amount necessary for fortifying Quebec. This is "an IMperial fortress ;" it was the scene of one of the most celebrated of English victories, and has so wide a reputation as one of the strong places of the world that the national honour is committed to maintaining it. We have no desire to quarrel with the decision of the Government. Whether the Canadian Government will really spend half a million on fortifying Montreal, as Lord De Grey expects, we very much doubt, for there is great difference'between calling out Volunteers and Militia at a time of excitement, and taxing the com munity to raise masses of earthworks and put guns in position. If the fortification of Quebec by Eng land be looked upon as part of an arrangement be tween the mother country and the colony, then, we suppose, we must submit and pay the . £200,000, or whatever more the works may cost. But we cannot affect to say that it will be done with any enthu siasm. To spend a large sum in raising works at such a place, with the knowledge that they willin volve the necessity of keeping a garrison there, and are quite as likely to lead to a great military disaster as a successful defence ; to perpetuate the principle that England is bound to hold the colony with her own troops ; to encourage, as it were, by our ex ample, the expenditure by the colonists of great sums which they can ill afford in a kind of defence the strategical merits of which are very questionable, are matters which are not undertaken very cheer fully. The country in general will think that the Government is going quite far enough when it de votes £50,000 a year for four years for the construc tion of fortifications at Quebec, and we will venture to say that when the War Department published Colonel Jervois's report with a view to prepare Par liament for this vote it expected to be taxed with extravagance and panic rather than illiberality or carelessness. Last evening, however, in the House of Lords, her Majesty's Ministers were soundly rated for their negligence in not more efficiently preparing for the defence of C ana d a aga i n st the imminent Federal invasion. Lord Lyveden drew a most melancholy picture. The Queen's troops and the local troops together could'not defend the Pro vince. If it were attacked, they would have nothing to do but to retreat to their ships, and it would be fortunate if they reached them. Lord Derby re newed his warnings co ncern i ng th e ill-f ee li n g against us which prevails in the Federal States, and insisted that the £200,000 shall all be expended at once, so as to put Canada in security from a danger which may fall on it, not after years, but after months. The Government, his lordship thinks, should also take care of the fo r tifi ca ti ons o f Toronto, and adopt precautions to prevent the Americans from obtain ing a preponderating force on the Lakes. In short, because North and S ou th might by bringing their differences to an end be enabled to attack Canada, we must immediately set about the defence of a frontier of 1,500 miles, spend no one knows how much in earthworks and masonry, arm fort after fort, and undergo all the burdeiis of preparing for war with one of the most powerful nations in the world. With due respect to the opinion of these patriotic noblemen, we think that the country should not be led away to any such extravagances. We doubt very much the policy of these elaborate and costly preparations for a contingency which may never arrive—preparations which, in case it did arrive, would certainly be found insufficient to meet it. Of conrse it is the duty of an officer who is sent to report on fortifications to give a scientific acid professional opinion, dwelling simply on the military aspects of the question. But the prior inquiry, whether the fortifications are politically desirable or economically expedient, is for Govern ments and Parliaments to decide, and we think there are many reasons why our own Government should neither press the House of Commons for large sums on this account, nor take advantage of the present excitement in Canada to urge on the colonists costly schemes which the calmer judgment of a few years hence may declare to have been both politically and stragically mistakes. To construct ourselves and make the Canadians construct fortifications at Quebec and Montreal, and even on the exposed shore of Toronto, only that at the approach of war we might shut up our little army in these places as a " nucleus" for the defence of Canada, is a work which requires more reflection and should inspire more doubts than it seems to have met with in the House of Lords. POST.-It would not be difficult to draw up a syl labus of the errors which the Federal Secretary of State proposes to entertain with respect to the Go vernment and the people of this country. Mr. Seward habitually leaps over facts to conclusions, the fallacy of which he is not, in his present frame of mind, able to discern. The despatch in which he informed Mr. Adams it was manifest to him that ‘‘ the insurgents" were e ff ec tively represented both. in Parliament and in our Press, while " the advo cates or defenders of the United States" were ex cluded from the conduct of public affairs, was, it is true, written ten months since, and it is possible that subsequent events have modified the opinions it expressed. Be that, however, as it may, the Con federates will, we apprehend, think Mr. Seward has exaggerated their influence. If they had obtained the support of " a bold, vigorous, and effective party in both Houses of - Parliament and in the British Press," it is hardly likely that the Southern States would be now waiting for a recognition of they in- dependence. The naivete of the adn'lig- li ' m that IS included in the complaint addressed to' for the , is refreshing and suggestive. It is not eaLV statesmen of despotically-governed countrie.i lin,: derstand the action and power of public opt) .11` England. Our Ministers are responsible to :Mr. Adams gislature and the nation, and are subject to the law. iijr. Seward can do many things Lord Palmrston, t o Le woiLld not venture to attempt. A constitutional monarchy cannot be compared with a Republic. The Fea, - sral Secretary of State should perceiife. that he has the advantage of us. But he scarcely does justice w those who are "the advocates or defenders of the :United States ; and it is t o be re gretted that Mr. St:.lnley, who happens to be the of a Minister, did net, while he wa s in America son " observing for himself Seward r ," set Mr. ight' with his friends. The " persons who, howeveir great their ability and worth," are dismisr de- . without a word of thanks, hale m ost reason to precate the publication of this cisespa,teh. But wh.,e l Mr. Seward speaks of the forbearan ce of the Vlllr e States to England," he entirely mis _apprehends tier policy of the English Government and the chara of the English people. We have asked fm: f er ‘ bearance, and we are not aware that we hgve re ceived - any. This country is not accustomed towe pend upon the generosity of other countries- '' „ are responsible for all we have done, and an e have failed to do. Her Majesty's Government 110.,. en deavoured by every legal meams to prevent al,}?.. violation of the neutrality they determined to O . serve ; and, so far from having shown an ing and unyielding disposition" towards the Fat▪ e': Government, they have, as Mr. Adanis well kw:i vy ' gone somewhat out of their way to meet the reprev; sen tations which have been made to them. Th e 1 10 officers of the Crown are not answerable f,:i!tr failure of the prosecutions they undertooik- Se w ard requires further information on :bat ', ▪ rho he can obtain it direct from his own agent.q. WeII proceedings have, no doubt, been expensive ga that as mortifying to the Federal Government ; is eot our fault. We have fulfilled our obligatle,.,M.- and the sense of having done our duty will sus' bee e us. In truth, it is our forbearance that has imposed upon ; but we can afford to let that Pat 1 Mr. Seward should, however, understand th at a ; proach addressed to the Queen's Government te accepted and shared by the nation ; and if the st,L of public feeling be such as he deplores, it is f o e its; to consider whether it is expedie nt to aggrav,. s, impatience or to intensify its sympathy. matter of right we should be fo und to be unyieere, We cannot bate a jot of our independence. if o r is no coercion of opinion in this country ; and '„ r e. foreign policy is not loud and menacing, it r e ,.., 0 r of sents principles that are ratified by 7 e ii to nations, and which we are thoroughly pren„Thglf maintain. Mr. Seward, it is plain, was excee,Thter angry with France when he wfote to his the' in England. We, however, had no hand T oe subversion of the Mexican Republic. It is „ ea „a t ae° tory to us to know that an internationa l has been abated, but the honour of the Tiber• n; belongs to the Emperor of the French. - 1 -`.ievea fore, the Federal Secretary of State feels on that score he can if he pl eases write to tbe but it is neither civil nor dignified to write ' l , - c ol? Imperial Government through us. We had Il e j - v -it to do with the Mexican revolution than we ha - Oa the secession. France, and France alone, destrolo, the hope of annexation in that quarter. 111firo'lli jealousy of the United States was, and is, ;' t er out of the question. The Monroe doctrine tainly understood in Europe, and there are,,, 1 ,00. tunately, Powers on the Continent tha.,;„,40- I° ' adopted it upon a safe and petty scale. But x-":„'pro and France have not evinced any desire t°,"ging priate American " notions ;" and, under 13,111 a circumstances, it is impossible that they, e jealous of the Federal States. On the co should all be glad to hear that the war vihi' exhausting North and South alike was brOag f t tiat an honest and honourable conclusion ; an d L nin st , be an offence to either of the belligerents, w e d eau plead guilty to it. We may be wrong, but o ne vol majority of people in this country see onlY ci nita to peace. Still, this is simply an opinion, overt apart from our policy. Mr. Seward, noriog while he publishes this correspondence char,gefctii with provocations and injuries, is actually te r , an by our neutrality on the Canadian froll i _t i- our proceeding, it may be too confidently, 011 to e antes he pretends to disregard and despise- COLLECTING AND ASSESSING THE LEGACY AND SUCCESSION DUTIES, &c. Mr. L. KING asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he had directed the Board of Inland Revenue to take the evidence of professional men and of the public generally upon any improvements in the present mode of collecting and assessing the legacy and succession duties, Sm. —. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Board of Inland Revenue had no such authority as that alluded to, and the Government had no power to confer it on that Board. As regarded the means of ascertaining if any grievances existed, they were possessed by Govern ment. ALLEGED INFRINGEMENT OF A PATENT BY GOVERNMENT. Mr. MAGUIRE asked the Secretary to the Admiralty to lay upon the table the report of William Oarpmael, the patent agent, on Mr. John Clare, jun.'s patents, which Mr. Clare alleges to have been made use of by the Admiralty in the Warrior and. subsequent iron ships for the Royal navy . Lord C. PAGET said that the report had been made in consequence of a request to the Admiralty, who referred the subject to a professional gentleman. That report was confidential, and could not therefore be laid on the table. TES TING THE ARMSTRONG GUNS. Mr. H. BAILLIE asked thb Under Secretary of State for War whether any batteries of the present service pat tern of 12-pounder Armstrong field guns, as reconstructed and shortened since May, 1863, had been subjected to the 100 shotted rounds of continuous rapid fire such as disabled six out of twelve guns of the previous pattern at Shorn cliffe in 1862, and caused the above reconstruction; and if any gun of the present pattern, with an inner tube of steel or coiled iron, had stood 1,000 shotted rounds of rapid fire, and if so, whether he.would lay the report of these trials upon the table of the house ? The Marquis of HARTINGTON said that the guns had been shortened but not reconstructed, and they worked satisfactory. He was not aware that any experiments such as those alluded to were necessary, or had been made. FEES PAID TO THE CONSUL AT ROME. Mr. H. BARING asked whether the fee paid to the Eng lish consul at Rome for obtaining his visa to Foreign Office passports was the perquisite of the English consul ; and if not, into what fund it was paid? Mr. LAYARD said these fees were levied under an Act of Parliament, and were not a perquisite of the consul, but were paid into the national exchequer, as would be seen by a reference to the public accounts. GAMES LICENCES (IRELAND) BILL. The house went into committee on this bill, and different clauses were agreed to. DUBLIN INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION BILL. This bill went through committee. ABOLITION OF OFFICE OF POOR-LAW SECRETARY. Mr. A. SMITH moved resolution " That the office of the one Secretary rendered capable of sitting or voting as a member of the Commons' House of Parliament by the ninth clause of the Poor-law Act, lately vacated, ought to be abolished." He assigned reasons for believing that the office in question was unnecessary, and urged the great ex pense of the Poor-law Department as an additional reason for the abolition of the office. Mr. VILLIERS justified the retention of the office, the expediency of which, he observed, had been several times discussed, and no sufficient reason had been shown why this office should be abolished any more than that of the Under-Secretary of any other department. The work of the Poor-law Board had much increased, additional labours having been lately cast upon the department, and if the office in question were abolished it would be necessary to appoint another Commissioner. Mr. HIBBERT supported the motion on the ground that it was not intended, when the Act 1847 was passed, that there should be both a President of the Poor-law Board and an Under-Secretary in the House. Mr. GILPIN observed that Mr. Smith evidently did not know what the dutias of the Parliamentary Secretary of the Poor-law Board were. The President of the Board might be in the House of Lords, and the Board at this time was by no means over-weighted. After a few remarks by Mr. LYALL, Lord PALMERSTON observed that there was no reason why there should not be an Under-Secretary for the Poor-, law Board, as in other departments, and he hoped the house would not assent to the motion. Sir H. WILL9ITGBI3Y and Mr. NEWDEGATE made a few observations, and upon a division the motion was nega tived by 193 to 17. POOR RELIEF IN UNIONS. Mr. VILLIERS moved for leave to bring in a bill to provide for the better distribution of the charge for the relief of the poor in unions. After some remarks upon the law of settlement and removal, and its evils ; upon the policy of compulsory relief of the poor, and upon the sub stitUtion of the union system for the parochial system, which had been attended with great advantage, he pointed out the reason of its comparative failure—namely, the con tinuance of parochial chargeability. He stated the results of the Act of 1862 in diminishing the evils of removals — removals which, in his opinion, justified a further extension of its principle; and there was no proof that it would create any unjust or excessive charge upon the common fund. The bill, therefore, proposed to carry the principle further, by making the common fund in future bear the mainte nance of all the poor within the union. He dwelt upon the benefits which this change would confer upon the pauper poor, and the enormous evils connected with settlement and removal it would tend to cure, and cited testimonies in favour of the change. Mr. HENLEY suggested certain points regarding which he thought information was required. Mr. LOCKE observed that the bill would be of no ad vantage to the metropolitan parishes ; that union rating would not meet the evils attending the displacements of population there. Leave was then given to bring in the bill. The house adjourned at a quarter past 8 o'clock. The Army Estimates. The army estimates for the year 1865-66 were issued yes terday. They set forth a prospective diminution of charge for the coining year of £874,639. Last year the total amount voted was £14,844,088, from which a sum of £1,324,442 for extra receipts being deducted, the expendi ture appeared as £13,519,646. This year the sum to be asked for amounts to £14,348,447 ; while the estimated amount of extra receipts is £1,703,440, reducing the pros pective expenditure to £12,645,007. The saving is to be made with the effective services, for which £12,241,647 will be asked, as against £12,737,931 last year. For the non-effective services £2,106,157 were voted last year ; this year the sum estimated for this division is £2,106,800, a slight increase which appears to have resulted from the greater number of reduced and retired officers and out-pen sioners who have become chargeable on the lists, as well as from a small amount more than last year estimated as re wards for military service ; in other categories of this class a saving is set forth, viz., pay of general officers, widows' pensions, &c., pensions to wounded officers, superannuation allowances, disembodied militia. In the effective service there will be a decrease, for the general staff and regimental pay of £274, 416 ; commissariat and movement of troops, £113,247; clothing and supplies, £22,438; barrack estab lishment, £1,265 ; divine service, £1,098 ; martial law, £14,249 ; medical establishment, £15,672 ; enrolled pen sioners and army reserve, £3,580 ; manufacturing depart ment, £131; warlike stores, £87,519 ; military education, £10,383 ; miscellaneous services, £15,403 ; and adminis tration of the army, £10,584 ; while on the following there will be an increase: disembodied militia, £2,617:; yeomanry, £3,914 ; volunteers, £6,640; and for superintending estab lishment and expenditure for works, buildings, and re pairs at home and abroad, £60,530. The several sums to be asked for in both classes are as follow : general staff and regimental pay, £5,434,567 ; commissariat and movement of troops, £1,205,800; clothing establishments, £574,256 ; barrack establishment, £609,900 ; divine service, £44,335 ; martial law, £26,300 ; medical establishment, £246,544 ; disembodied militia, £786,400; yeomanry, £91,000 ; volun teers, £334,900 ; enrolled pensioners and army reserve, £46,000 ; manufacturing departments, £972,900 ; warlike stores, £485,000 ; superintending establishment of, and ex penditure for, works, buildings, repairs, £811,400 : mili tary education, £163,500 ; surveys of the United King dom, £88,345 ; miscellaneous, £107,700: administration of the army, £212,800 ; rewards for military service, £26,100; pay of general officers, £74,200 ; reduced and retired offi cers, £455,000; widows' pensions, &c., £162,100; wounded officers, £28,200 ; in-pension, £33,200 ; out-pension, £1,168,000 ; superannuation, £131,000 ; and disembodied militia, £29,000. The general staff, regimental, and mili tary educational establishments will number this year 142,477 men, as against 146,766 last year, a decrease of 4,289; while the native Indian troops employed on the British establishment will be reduced from 1,582 men last year to 178 men. BREAKFAST BEVERAGE.—Homceopathio practitioners, and the medical profession generally, recommend cocoa as being the most healthful of all beverages. When the doe trine of homeopathy was first introduced into this country there were to ba obt fined no preparations of cocoa either at• tractive to the taste or acceptable to the stomach ; the nu was either supplied to the crude state, or so unskilfully manufactured as to obtain little notice. J. Ep ps, of London, Homoeopathic Chemist, was induced in the year 1839 to turn his attention to this subject, and at len,4th succeeded, with the assistance of elaborate machinery, in being the first to produce an article pure in its composition, and so refined by the perfect ttituration it receives in the process it passes through, as to be most acceptable to the delicate stomach. For general use Epps's Cocoa is distinguished as an invigo rating, grateful breakfast beverage, possessing a most deli cious hroma. Dr. Hassail, in his work„ "Food and its Adulterations," says -"Cocoa contains a great variety of im portant nutritive principles—every ingredient necessary to the growth aad sustenance of the body." &gain: "As a nutritive, cocoa stands very much higher than either coffee or tea." Directions—Two teaspoonfuls of the powder in a breakfast cup, filled up with boiling water or milk. Secured in tin-lined }lb., ilb., and llb. labelled packets, and sold by all grocers, Confectioners, and chemists.- [LETT.] COUNTRY MARKETS GRANTHAM.—FEB. 1. 8 - • Be l to Os i , ta r Old white wheat, 42s to 455; old red, 388 4 P" white, 42s to 44s ; new red, 37s to 380 per 36 stone ley for malting, 298 to 33s per q ; g,rindingt 30 stone. Oats, old, 25s to 27 r 5 . ; new', 38 to 248,Pegollo stone. Beans, old, 39s to 41s • new,. 36 'to 38s per av Peas, 84s to 36s per 36 stone: s 24s to 'PTO 33— FEB. 17. to' cl " a ctivity exhibited a- tia beted was very liraite obtainable. Peas, Partridg e ..... 6: 3 3 , 84 4., t White ...... B ,iling ...... • s la Dun.... ..... _ 3 O ditto, new . •*:3o Beane, Tick , old ..... 0 nevv- • -350 Barrow ck .33s .; 3:o CHELMSFO . There was not the slightest market. The business trans last week's prices were barel) Wheat, old white....4os 45s new . 40s 44s old red 30s 40s new. 37s 40s Barley . 25s 32s chevalier 266 Grind ng _Os 8s Malt 6ls 678 Chevalier 648 688 Oats 2os 26s is. q , i • oia NORTHAMPTON.---FO3• A - 36 to . ""' B a rlef o Ao 3 s - r 5 New white wheat ,. 39s to 42s ; new re"' - 8 ne. white, 43s to 445; old red, for malting, 31s to 33s per qr. to 398 Per 36 a to 0 P ° e. ; grinding, 20",,t per 24 er e ll sg , stone. Oats, old, 25s to 26s : new, 18s to "' t s o ne. • I ' Beans, old, 36s to 40s ; new, ' 358 to 38s Per - 33s to 38s per 36 stone. , COLCHESTER--FEB. 18. i' ° ger. , per The supply of wheat was small and rather d os, 1. barley in demand, other sorts no cheaper. 13° 3 0 .33 0 40 4 qr. dearer. Peas the same as last week. Wheat, white ...... 4os 46s Beans, 1111514114" ii: 3b E4 SS i red 36s 42s Middle ana 0 18 . 35 . s s t ii Harley..... 8s 36s Peas, white .... .... Oat ........20s 25s grey ....... _ft ABERDEEN—FEB. 18. L ,....01: $ The market was rather if anything brisker 1 ` Av' prices had a tendency upwards, though there great deal changed hands. White wheat 33s Od to 375 Od Red wheat 31s Od to 33s Od, Potato oats 15s 6d to 16s 6d Common oats 14s 6d to 15s 6d Bere l9s Od to 20s Od Barley 19s Od to 20s Od Oatmeal 13s Od to 14s Od Flour, fine 31s Od to 32s Od l a 0 1181. 62 1 D 40 1 b bliS 53 1 b v f ( L TD, / S OI V, 2 6 oac' KIRKCALDY—FEB. 18. gol d A good supply of all kinds of grain, whic h - he prices of this day week. Oa t° Wheat. Barley. , m Od First...... SOs Cd I 21s 6d I ;;,--, Od 1.. mud... . 32s Od 228 Od --- Od Tuird ..... 318 Od 24s Od --8 COAL MARS Price per ton at the ET, FEB. 20. 6, c lose of the zuarlte'' 0, 2g 6 Walls End GosfortA 0 2 0 Walls End iirharocfr" 9 0 6 1 Kelloe .............. East Hartlepool "'' South Durhara ...... 22 6 Camay and 911P5r, Malting .............. 3t, 24 ; sold, 24. tof", s. d. Bowers West Hartley 15 0 Cowpen Hartley l5 0 Davison's W. Hartley 15 0 Braddylls Hetton 23 0 Walls End Hetton Holywell Main l7 6 Stewart's South Hartlepool 22 9 Ships at mark( [AnvEuTitimmErrr.]—Holloway's Ointraen" Effectual Aid.—ln the sad hours of sickness r ° to know that a remedy does exist, and that s t an d cured alw at a little cost. Holloway's ointment' olo' 1; 0 ays useful in relieving pain, in reducing new er 0 andregulating disordered actions. 'th e y te d misapplied, nor can they under any circun i , s ;tor te 6 eli v o b mischief. They are a blessing to the rich 1174 " i A r i g ) 4 indigestion, gout, skin diseases, ezc. , 931- 00 11 4 J °. .: 01 b y oon to the poor when struck down by illn ess o . • rot P p0 1 ,.., ° a medicines should be in the possession of all e l)-- .0 ° ov" ov pOSitiO!'' ot be andnd emigrants, who will then be in a cure disease when medical assistance c4 " - tained. ~" _................--------,,p, SW 111' London : . A 40 i Printed and Published by Wir,"'")Live, ' t y of No. 112, Strand, Painter, at TOE 5 1114 " CO llll Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy , in t ' Middlesex. —Tuesday, February 21, 1865' a11M1N1NW0M1N.M................-_ ..-. . Births. f vobe rt i' BELL.—On the 19th inst., at Kew, the wif° ° ..Pt si, Bell, Esq., of a son. COTESWORTH.-011 the 19th inst., t he Wife 0 0 ' 4° Cotesworth, Esq., of a son. bP the 0 FERRYMAN.—On • the 16th inst., at Chelte e a bte of Major-General Feiiyivan, C. 8., o f a dva ee ~,1 1 e- 1 - Bil' WYNN.—On the 19th inst., at 2, Low er Beri— Lady Annora Williams Wynn, of a son. 0, Il e° • Marriages St ep 45 a 5t.,,t0 , 0 ,0 , LAVINGTON—FERRIS.—On the 18th 1 114 "0 - 00tO w - of '' Bayswater, Arthur Ferris, eldest son el -- Alt er - 1,, (1, ton, RN., to Emily Mary Ann, eld est cit"ll' ..fies 's,,,jell' James Ferris, Esq. Slavai' a P PEAVEY—JENKINS.--On the 18th inst., at O-mllO dington, Mr. H. J. Peavey, of Mincingi r. T. "s" mond, to Mary Ann, eldest daughter of of Brecon, South Wales. oY 6 130-4P' Deaths. Dora A 1113, ,,,c1 06' BROOKE.—On'the 18th inst. at at Croydon, , of .`" ae daughter of the late Lieu . t.-Colonel Dre°'we' Se place, Chelsea. cba rlor ii ,,, CATHERWOOD.—On the 19th inst., at 2 1, age d 'f,eo Hoxton, Alfred Catherwood, Esq, 31.931,gar do LESLIE.—On the 19th inst., Mr. Charles wel l of Limhouse, aged 118th / inst., Mr. Samuel Nailer' 5. Of f MILLEn ° ' .—D e n the 18th 41 94 ' street west, King -square , aged 80. .i,..,,,, . ig.,--4 WEDD.—On the 17th inst., at Brighton, v"*" of Foulmire, Cambridgeshire , a g ed ______ 7 6 8 . f ----..rDIVI O it%; **''::