The Sun. — London, England, 1848-05-24 00:00:00

-- o"---"'"n----------"--"-------Vr'7'""'"7GITErT WESTERN RAILWAY (EXTENSION I I The announcement of the numbe rs was received with IMP ERIAL PA.RLAMEI May 23 - [ OF THE BERKS AND HANTS, Sec.) BILL. I loud cheers. We understand that after the gallery was HOUSE OF LORDS , On the question that the report upon this Bill be read, cleared, Sir James Graham a nd Sir R. H. Inglis spoke The LORD Cnancne eon. took his seat upon the Wools a lengthened discussion arose as to a discrepancy in the in opposition to the motion , a nd Sir Rober t Peel and pack at Five o'clock. The Earl of HARDWICKE presented several peti. Bill, in not d e fi n i ng t h e purposes to which the capital the Judge-Advocate in favour. RETURNS OF TIMBER AND SILK. raised under it was to be devoted, and ultimately Lions against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. Lord GEORGE BENTI N C K rose to m o v e for re - The Bishop of W ISCHESTER presented several Mr. LABOUC HERE moved that i t be re-committed, in order to introduce into it a clause, stating the general turns, showing the quantities and prices, duty paid, of petitions with a similar prayer. Presented several petitions purposes for which the money is to be raised and ex ' Canadian timber sold by public sale in London, on Fri- Lord DUNFERMLINE pended, which was agreed to. in favour of the 13 , i11. LONDON, BRIGHTON, AND SOUTH COAST day, the 10th of Mareh, distinguishing red from yellow Lord BEAUMONT presente . d several petitions from RAILWAY (LONDON -BRIDGE AND NEW timber, and giving an abstract, showing the average various lodges of Odd Fellows, in favour of the Bill for CROSS STATIONS, Sc.) BILL. price of each description of timber, together with the She legalization of their society. THE VERNON GALLERY. Mr. GRENFELL moved the reception of the report. highest and lowest price in each case. Showing any reductions of duties on thrown silks and on Indian silks, L or d) ONTEAGL, after passing a high eulogium Capt. PECHELL opposed the reception of thereport of the Committee, on the ground that the line did not afford which may have been made in 1842, together with a on gr- Vernon for the magnificent present of pictures . the accommodation it should to the poorer classes , as return, showing the importations of such silks in the which he had mad© to the public, moved for a return of the company had stopped day-tickets, increased the years 1842, 1845, and 1846, respectively, on which such alldonarions tbat had been made by private indivi duals to the National Gallery. fares, stopped many of the trains, closed several of reductions . may . have . been made s : likewise showing in pounds. of raw and waste The Marquis of LANSDOWNE bore his testimony to the . stations, and moved their goods station from London- the quantities, bridge to New Cross•, and within the last few days a silk imported, exported, and consumed a t h ome the generous liberality of Mr. Vernon, Sir George 1844 and 1845, ascompared • h with Beaumont, Mr. Holwell Carr and the other benefactors meeting had been held at Brighton to oppose this Bill, in the years to the National Gal ler y . so dissatisfied were the inhabitants with the con duct of the two years 1846 and 1847, giving the average an- Lord COLBOihNE reminded their Lordships that the railway. He thought when parties consented to a nual quantity consumed at home in each period. Simi lin perhaps because a particular station should be lar returns in regard to thrown silk ; and,: showing the more than one moiety of the pictures in the National erected, e' . that _Parriament ought not to allow railway quantities and value of all articles of cotton, woollen, *fairy had been the gift of private individuals. Heand silk, of needlework, and watches of foreign menu companies to close it. would suggest the propriety of enlarging the Gallery, fee it was not fair alter they had accepted this mum- Mr. GRENFELL said the public generally formed facture, boots and shoes, ;and boot-fronts, and a ll fitent gift from Mr. Vernon, that they should put him unreasonable .h expectations with respect to the benefits other articles nut enumerated in the trade and naviga tet e e h y t ought to rceive. With respect to the Parlia Lion returns, imported into tho port of London, in the the inconvenience of opening his private house to m ar; trains, the . directors would be happy to give four months ending the sth day of May, 1848, as com the public twice a week to exhibit these pictures to the full explanation in relation to their conduct in respect pared with the corresponding three mouths of 1845, public.—The motion was then agreed to. of them to the tribunal appointed by the Legislature. 1846, and 1847. Continuation of so much of return PETITIONS. ny s :ot aathb r dh gliw e ea down ea l rl ew a cscrs e t noeeaao timber, nitdne t o( )to the owt t nsh h ateae e sdhos p .dri SirDELA C Y E V A N S importation oosno o pind pn . rrt:seii l 1 continuation e 7, di tsuee s t,eeykal , tpcBtio o aroiiO4roreh r fn:n d wd rat, :eoehsorcaefewfebhri foreign 1 ordered yiut eta:aht s aruwep h ynars e hi,dnnni i6lenpaatNBthdhehi which rodedB. dayitc,et numbers they ooauoenl of February, 1846, to the The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented save- Bill at a future stage. na ral petitions from the North of Ireland in favour of the The report was then received. Frew Church Sites (Scotland) Bill. REPORTS. SPAIN. t r m h collectioni the showing tc A p he d o es l a r s ccy t a nou e n, no d sy d a: ,. arnandch iAtoi the The NOBLE MARQUIS asked if the letter which_heada to.— April, following reports were then received and agr . eed recently appeared in the papers, purporting Bulwer, h Caledonian Canal Bill. letter from the Duke of Sotomayor to Sir H. Furness Railwayßill. sequent upon reduction of customs duties in 1846. He was genuine, and whether any further correspondence had taken place on the subject. He should, nottwithhis trusted that the House would bear with him while he standing the opinion of the Noble Duke, perseverein bride and Brighton, New cCross s a s n Stations, South a Coast c ) Railway Bill. y 'loved, who did moved for those returns. There was no man, he be• motion for a return of the names of the Spanish pen- Manchester)(sta l t a i n o c h h A es p te p r r , oh S c h h e i ffi n eld, Lincolnshire Railway stoners.Lincolnshire Railwa Canal) be deceived by any statistical statements on the not thick that the House ought not to he and L Sheffield The Mara:luta of LANSDOWNE could not answernottice Manchester, Sheffield, B • u the Noble Marquis had not given any queNtion. (Station . at Sheffield and Bill. subject of those returns. He had formerly made .. Y statements on those of Nis intention to ask it. questions, and his state- The Nonesn Maniac's then presented several petitions J f with the Midland Railway, via Barnsley, and Sheffield, unc ion Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railwa ments had been questioned, and he now made from the Protestant clergymen of Ireland, in favour of en., national system .e.... of education; also upwards of 100 Branches therefrom) Bill. Lincolnshire a motion for returns which would clear up the state ments he had then been doubted in as re petitions in favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal . of Sheffield -street in Manchester, &c.) Bill. regarded the Hill. (Crossing Manchester. South Junction and Altrincham Railway effects of recent legislation in the commodities of timber PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS ADJOURN- Manchester. and silk ;and at this time, when the question was before MENT BILL. Bill•was most likely to the country what mode of taxation Paving Bill. O x ford Pav accord with its people—when a great experiment was Oa the motion of Lord STANLEY , the Hou s e went Oxford, 'W or cester, and Wolverhampton Railway being tried, it became of the utmost importance that into Committee on this Bi ll. The Noble Lord ex p lained (No. I—lncrea se of Ca p ital) Bill. they should be correctly informed with regard to the some verbal and other amendments which he p ro p osed Payne's Patents (Improvements in preserving Vege- measures of alteration which had been carried, and what to introduce iaio it, and said he should move that the table M a tters) Bill. the effects of those alterations were. He was one of those Bill be re printed with such amendmante, and subee- Vale of Neath Railway (Power to the South Wales who considered that direct taxation was not the mode quently recommitted. Railway Company to subscribe, and Committee .., Amendment of by which the revenues of this country were to be in- Lord CAMPBELL recommended that a Acts) Btu. nted to con- creased. He was one of those who believed that the of this and the other House should be appoi . had COLONIAL EXPENDITURE however, that i tprinciple adopted by the United States of America of cider the subject. He thought, Sir W. MOLESWATH ' ' ' until next session. Thegave notice of his intention, imposing a duty on all imported goods, was by far the T d better stand over altogether . on ues ay, the 20th of June, to call the attention of it proposed to effect wouldbest mode that could be resorted to—a mode preferable only important change which i The Noble Lord pro- the House to the colonial expenditure and government. to direct taxation or taxation on Excise. He had, on a render the Bill quite nugatory. he Commons, SPAIN—DEPARTURE OF SIR 11. -IaULWER- former occasion, showed that a large proportion of the which stood over from t . . _ posed that Bills . the following session by their Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to a question from taxes which had been remitted went into the and were taken up should go Mr. Bankes, stated that her Majesty's Government had pockets of the foreigner ; and he had shown receiving m the royal assent, Lordships before mohs who were to pass a resole- that morning recei ve d di s p a t c h es f rom Sir H. Bul , ver, also that the removal of the prohibitive ditties did back again to the Coeti mat, ,_ however, they had the power from Madrid, to the 17th instant, in which it was stated nee compensate the British manufacturer or the ion in their favour. ".1: t by as existing standing order, that Sir H. Bulwer was about to leave Madrid, that he ppl e of this country. On the occasion to which of doing at pree would be that the courts in West, min e had received his passports from the Spanish Government he referred, he had shown that, while the price of Another difficulty to see w hether, with reference to th e for that purpose, and that it was his (Lord Palmerston's) Baltic timber hid, on the one hand, risen 1 ls. per load ster Hall would have enular forms had been complied intention to lay the correspondence on the subject on that of Canadian timber had, on the other, become so Bills so passed,. the r e would be necessary to insert another the table of the House on Thursday next. reduced, that the greatest distress had resulted to the with. And it h t such Bills should be considered binding in lONIAN ISLAND7n Canadian interests in this respect. On that occasion it clause, ft alaw. H e w as convinced that it would not b e Mr. HUME said he understood the liberty of the Press was said by a Right Hon. Gentleman (understood to be point of to the wisdom of their Lordships' had been suppressed in those islands. He wished to Mr. Gladstone), that he (Lord George Bentinek) was Lleuee to send down the Bill in its present form to the know what the law now was with regard to the press, utterly misinformed on the subject ; and that so far from other Hpuse of Parliament, and whether anv alteration had been made as to the the alteration of the law having the effr•ct of cruelly Lord MONTEAGLE hoped his Noble Friend (Lord mode of election? grinding down their colonial produce, and producing Stanlor) would persevere with the Bill. Mr. HAWES said there was a law still in force with short prices, Canadian timber had risen 7s. per load. Lord CAMPBELL explained. regard to the exclusion of books, which gave the Go- Those statements had been made by the President and Lord STANLEY said that the amendment havinn vernment considerable power; but, practically, it had Vice-President of the Board of Trade, and afterwards been in conformity with recommendations which had no operation; for the free importation of books had been repeated by the Secretary of State. When those state • sanctioned in 1844. The restrictions on the press were been made from both sides of the House in former stages manta were made, it was not surprising that the House parcel of the original constitution under which of the Bill, be thought it would be unnecessary to re- part and should be carried away by the opinion that he was we had taken possession of the islands; but the liberty commit the Bill. He proposed, therefore, that the totally'misinformed. But it was not only on public of the press was now fully secured, and the subject of House should at once go through the Bill. grounds that he felt it due that he should move for the elections and other points were now under the consi- After a few words from Leal MONTEAG LE on the returns in question. He felt it due to the House that the deration of the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial same side, public should be correctly informed on this question. He Lord REDESDALE, while disagreeing with the Bill department. proposed to ask her Majesty's Government that returns "VERNON'S PUBLIC WORKS OF ART.—MR. VERNON be furnished, and he thought that a compliance with his as it stood, would not divide the House upon it , as by PICTURES. so doing he would disarrange the entire question. motion would set the matter at rest. He believed that he Mr. V. SMITH begged to ask the Noble Lord at the After a few words from the Earl of DEVON , was justified in the statements he had made. It was -The pill was passed through the Committee, and head of the Government when it was intended to sum said, in contradiction to him, that the price of Canadian mon a meeting of the Committee, appointed on the 11 thre d timber on which the duties had been remitted 10s., ordered to be reported, with amendments. of February last, to consider the best mode of providing had only Their Lordships then adjourned. fallen from 955. to 925. On the very day on --eseire----_ additional room for works of art, given to the public, or which that statement was made, a great sale took place purchased by means of Parliamentary grants. He (Mr. at the Hall of Commerce, Tnreadneedle-street, at which Smith) had been appointed a member of that Committee, 31,900 feet of white, and 12,000 feet of red timber was but they had never been summoned to meet. 1.1 s reason sold; and by a return which he held in his hand, and for putting the question was this :—A very munificent which he would take the liberty to place in the hands of the gift had been presented to the nation by Mr. Vernon.— Member for Oxford (Mr. Gladstone), the price of red tim (Hear, hear)—consisting of a valuable collection of plc- ber had reached 655. sd. that day, and not 925. He had tures ; and he understood that the trustees of the Na- in his hand a communication from Gilmore and Co., tional Gallery had been obliged to ask Mr. Vernon's l arge ti m ber mercha n ts, expr ess in g sur p r i se th a t an y leave to exhibit his own gift in his own house.—(Hear, such statement could have been made, and they autho hear.) He, therefore, wished to know whether it was rised him to state to the Right Hon. Gentleman the still the intention of the Noble L o rd to call together the Nlember for Oxford (who sets a due value on the timber Committee to which he had alluded, or to take any of Cornish mines too), that they had made him an offer other steps for providing the additional accommodation of red timber, now lying at Hull, for 755. He believed required. the Right Hon. Gentleman would look upon this as a Sir R. INGLIS said he had a notice on the paper for windfall. In 1842 the foreign trade of the Baltic that day, to move for copies of any communications was carried on equally by British ships and British which had passed between the Government and Robert seamen, and foreign ships and foreign seamen. In 1839 Vernon, Esq., relative to that gentleman's offer of a he found that the foreign trade in the Baltic was carried portion of his collection of pictures ; and probably the on by 667 British ships, manned by 6,433 British sea- Noble Lord at the head of the Government would now men, and by 663 foreign ships, manned by 6,863 foreign make some statement which might render that motion seamen. But since the great alteration had token place unnecessary. in 1845, the number of British ships had fallen from 667 Lord J. RUSSELL said it certainly was his intention to 662, and the number of British seamen fell from to call together the Committee at at an early period. 6,438 t o 5,937; while the number of foreign ships in- When the fact was announced to the Government, of creased from 663 to 1,893, and of foreign seamen from Mr. Vernon having made this munificent and handsome 6,863 to 17,449.—(Hear.) They might be as good gift to the public, ha (Lord J. Russell) had requested Englishmen as he was ; but if they did not enter his Noble Friend the Chief Commissioner of Woods and seriously into the consideration of this question, they Forests (Lord Morpeth), to try and find a place suit- did not come up to his notions of what Englishmen able for the accommodation o f so v a l ua bl e a collection; ought to be. With respect to the Canadian trade, he some correspondence had passed, and his Noble Friend would show the House the greatest distress had befallen would state the result. it by the measures which had lately been passed in that Viscount MORPETH said he must do full justice to House; and that they had put into the pockets of fo• Mr. Vernon's spirit of accommodation, as well as to his rei,gners the greater part of the duty taken off. He munificence. When a difficulty was found about pro• wit h left it to the House to say, su ch a falling off viding n a room which should be suitable in every way, of prices as he had shown, what the Canadian mere asto light and other requirements, the offer of Mr. chants must have su ff ere d by the change. Ile Vernon's own house for the accommodation of the would now come to the other branch of the returns public had proceeded from that gentleman himself. - for which he was moving —he meant the silk trade. Sir R. PEEL said that, as one of the trustees of the He had, on a former occasion, drawn attention to this National Gallery, he was very glad to bear his testi- sub' andthe distress , existed in the districts Spitalfields to mony, in the strongest manner, not only to the muni- of and ficence with which Mr. Vernon had acted, but to the it commenced in its greatest severity in 1845 ; but he extreme delicacy of his conduct.—(Hear, hear.) AP' was told that he had made a g reat chronological mistake prehending that several of his pictures might not be — t h at it had commenced as early as 1840, and that the thought worthy of a place in the National Gallery, he a l terat i on i n t h e law was not until 1845. He attributed had allowed the trustees to make their choice from the th e di s t ress mainly to that alteration. The Noble Lord whole collection, at the same time submitting his own charg e d the free-ade party in the House with having opinions as to those which he considered most desirable dabbled i n th e s ilk tra d e of this brought country until they to appropriate to the public.—(Cheers.) There being ruin upon those most di rec tly engagedl- in it a diffieulty as to fi n di ng a suitable building—for not t h e manufacturers i n Spitaltields and I.3 . etliareen. It every building, however large, had such a light as was had been said by the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Glad adapted for the e xhibition of paintings, M r . V e rnon had stone) that the details of ruin and distress which he had said, with the greatest liberality, "You shall have my given on this subject were, as related to Spitalfields and house, as well as my pictures; the house as it stands Bethnal-green, greatly overstated, and that it mas not the shall be placed at your service."—(Cheers.) It was competition of foreigners, but of the Manchester manufac right that this great munificence and handsome conduct turers that affected them. But he (Lord G. Bentinck) did on the part of Mr. Vernon should be publicly known, not find that since 1842 there had been any great in- RELATIONS WITH SPAIN. crease in the silk-trade of Manchester. He found that in Mr. ANSTEY wished to know whether the departure 1842 there were eight or nine silk mills in Manchester, of Mr. Bulwer from Madrid was to be explained in the and he now found that there were seven or eight mills manner it had been explained by some of the foreign in full employment there. When he turned his eyes to journals—that he had been removed to a higher post, foreign countries, he found a very different state of the ambassadorship to Constantinople ; or whether it things with regard to importation from abroad to this was to be taken as indicative of an entire rupture of country, and it was mainly to show how things had friendly relations with that Court. changed that he now moved for the returns. He now Viscount PALMERSTON—The departure of Mr. asked that there should be laid before the House a return Bulwer from Madrid does not arise from his being all" of the importation of silks to the port of London alone; pointed to any other post.—(Sensation.) and having looked at the official returns of the Custom- Viscount PALMERSTON again rose, and said--ot house papers, he found that in the four months ending course it does nut proceed from any rupture of our rela- the sth of May, reckoning 31. sterling as the value be• lions with Spain.—(Heir, hear.) which thrown silk 500,5771. sterling, and repeating that ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. he found that it amounted at the end or the year to one Lord G. BEN TINCK said he presumed that the mo- million and a half sterling. If they took 9s. a week as lion which he had to submit would meet with a ready th e average o f th e wages o f th e B e th na l- green weaver , concurrence . from the House—that the House at its rig th e y wou ld fi n d th a t th e re had b een i m p or t e d i n t o th e big should adjourn to Thursday.—(Cheers.) Mr, Res i port of London alone, goods which, after deducting N E hoped the House would not agree to this motion.— one-third, would be equal to the wages, at 9s. a (Laughter.) A Bill of great importance to Scotland, week, of sixty-four thousand persons. When he the Entail Bill—j Much laughter)—was fixed for Wednesnay; and it . showed those things, did he not prove, he would ask, would be highly improper to lose a day. If any Hon. Gentlemen that it was from the competition of foreigners, and nut wished to go to the Derby, let them do ao• from the competition of seven or eight silk mills at and he hoped they would enjoy Msnchester, that the silk trade was suffering?—(Hear, themselves.—_(Laughter.) Lord J. RUSeiELL said, h a d he found hear.) The Noble Lord then took the average of the that the Scotch Members were anxious to discuss last ten years, from 1833 to 1843, as compared with the day, he should have said the House the Entail Bill next importation of the last two years, and showed that the purpose; but he found that sever' a e l o o 7ht to meet for the distress in Spitalfields within the last two years, arising tl be he Scotch Mem- f rom t h e i mporta ti on o f f ore i gn go ods, was in excess; bars were of opinion that th ere woui a very thin an d if t h e Ri g h t H on . G ent l eman , h e continued, wou ld House, that the clerks at the table would panrodbahbly have take the trouble to look into this, he would find it to be to sit some time without making a (gauss, Was a chance of this important subject not re that there so; he would find that the consumption of the various d u e discussion.—(Hear, hear.) In this case, andivitnhgera kinds of silk, raw, thrown, and waste, was, in the two e years 1846-7, less than the consumption of 1844-5, he being a dispositio n to make the da y a national fete, s aw no objection to t he motion p ro p osed . he (Lord George Bentinck) thought, by something like Mr. S. CRAWFORD said the House ought not deli- 20,0001b5. He moved for returns which would show the berately to do anything calculated to lower itself in the quantity of silk which had been consumed at home in estimation of the country. He should therefore oppose the two years 1846 -7, as compared with 1844-5, and he would find that there was a decrease in 1846.7, as com- this motion. pared with 1844 Colonel SIBTHORP was understood to complain of -5 of 246,0001b5. of thrown silk, 9 9,0001 b silk, ' smuggled through on a Wed- s. raw and 143 5381bs of waste silk. 'rho Bills being frequently Noble Lord then read 1 .. a letter from the rector of the nesday. . parish of Bethnal- green (as we toaderst ood hi Mr. F. MAULE said he had been unfortunate enough forth the distress . . t as), setting now exisung among the weaving oor to fix the Scotch Entail Bill fur Wednesday. It was a of the district, as ex d• laiiill desirable it h d .exceeding anything of the kind that very important measure, and it was ~ y a Lome under his notice d ' overuring the seven precedingn should pass this session. If the House adjourned the next day, he hoped the Noble Lord at thehead of described the population as becoming more destitute from the Government would give Scotland half a day at an y e ar to year, and as badly lodged, housed, clad, and fed, early period, for the purpose of considering this men- and their wages continually reducing, That was the sure.—(Hear, hear.) state ment of the incu mbent , who had resided there for Mr. BRIGHT thought it desirable they should have seven years, and yet it hail been attempted to bo shown a holiday sometimes, and had no objection to to-morrow; by figures that they were in a state of great prosperity. but he thought it beneath the dignity of the (louse to And ho went on to state that these pour people would make the excuse for that holiday the holding of a race not consent to break up their homes while they had a within a few miles of London.—(Hear, hear.) If they chair and table left. Yet almost all of them had become had a holiday for the Derby, why not for the Oaks?— paupers during the last winter. But it was with some (Great laughter, and cr i es o f e M ov e) There were consolation that he could turn from this miserable pic other important races in which some Honourable Mem- tare to a better state of things now. Ile believed that hers might be more interested than in the business of things were looking up, and that the democratic disturb this House. But with the pathetic appeals that had been ances abroad were giving a cheek to foreign menufac• made by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government tures, the effect of which would be to bring grist to the as to the state of the public business, he thought it mill of the poor Spitalfields' weaver. That was, how would be very unbecoming in the House to adjourn over ever, only his own opinion, for others ascribed the to-morrow, simply on account of a great race corning healthful excitement which had sprung up in Spitalfields off, He had no doubt there would be a sutficieat number of late to other causes. In au article in a free-trade of Members present to make a House. Ministers," th a t paper, headed " The Queen and her After a few words from Mr. OSWALD, the House healthful excitement was ascribed to the exertions divided, when there appeared— arising from the direct influence of her Majesty, b y For the adjournment Against Majority .-.13 HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 23. The SintatEn took the Chair at Four o'clock. THIRD READINGS. The foßowing Bills were read a third time and passed Bristol Docks Transfer Bill. Lanark and Hamilton Court House and County Rates Bill. Midland Railway (Alteration of the Line and Branches near Wellingborough and approach to the Welling borough Station) Bill. CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY BILL. On the motion that the report of this Bill be con sidered, Mr. GROGAN rose to oppose it on the ground that it was contrary to the standing orders of the House, and besides, would give a railway company the monopoly of the steam-beat traffic, which could not fail to be at tended with great disadv_intages to the public. Ho therefore begged leave to move that the report be read this day ,ix months. Mr. Ha.llE peconied the motion, and said he con sidered if the Bill were paisel that it would establish a system which would be totally ruinous to all fair corn petition. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he was Chairman of the Committee upon the group of lines of which the Cheater and Holyhead formed one, and that the Committee were of opinion that it would be to the public advantage and convenience that this company should have tire power of applying a portion of its capital to the purchase of steam-vessels to complete the line of communication between Holyhead and Dublin. The Government had always looked upon the railway as a great national undertaking, the terminus of which was not, in fact, Holyhead, but Dublin, and the public advantages offered to them so great that they had departed from the ordinary rules and granted a sum of money to assist in carrying it out. For himself he must say that great advantages resulted from placing in the hands of railway companies the power. to carry [heir passengers by steam-packets. In the first place it prevented any chance of collision between parties; and, in the next, the officers of the company might be employed in connexion with the ves s, to the convenience of person s proceeding by the .railway. LEICESTER ELECTION. The Committee appointed to try the merits of this election appeared at the bar and were sworn. Mr. BROWN opposed granting the proposed powers to the railway company. Mr. LABOUCHERE said the question before the House WV' Oho of unusual interest, both wish regard to t h e way in which the private business of the House should be transacted, and in connexion with the interests of railway companies and the public, and havine , given his special attention to the matter, he wished Co say a few words to the House with respect l to the principle l a id down by the Right }lon. i4ru net (Sir R. Peel), whether railway companies should have the power of becoming steam-boat proprietors. He wished to state that it had received the serious attention the Committee t o whom such matters were usuallyref u ec h red ; and subse vently, at the request of that body, y the Board of Trade, whose opinions with respect u.theit was Bill were so the was fully stated in Mr. Letevre's letter that unneces sary for him to trouble the House with It must be a matter of sincere gratification to all interested in ale matter that the question hadsince considered a Committee of which the R. beenl Baronet was 'a Member. He (Mr. Labouel ' a g er i e t ) n r: fessed that he had approached the consideration o f c i h - e - Bill wilh a strong impreisiou on his mind against allow ing railway companies to become steam-boat proprietors —(Hear, hear)—dud, although his mind was altered in that respect so for us this company was concerned, he nevertheless considered that no such power should be delegated to railway companies, except under special circumstainces. This was the strongest case that could be adduced in support of the principle contended for in the Bill ; and unless the House was are wed to refuse such powers to railways in all cans, they mutt accede to the reception of the report. The whole purpose of the Chester and Holyhead Comparry was the establishment of good communication between Holyhead and Dublin; and therefore it had greater interest than any other body in keeping that ocentoonication in good condition. But the Bill eontaiwed clauses restricting the fares to a certain amount,, and continuing the powers for a limited time only, and ate whole matter could, under the Bill, bo 9penid after a limited number of years, so that Par liament alight revise the fares and discuss the whole question at isatte. He thought, therefore, that the cim tr4hotati be oapowered to invest money in steam- Ite \ to ply between Holyhead and Dublin. lir. BERNAL would not enter into the principles involved, but ho wished to point out that no special Deport had emanated from that Committee of which ittitht case ßigh wa Sight' Hr an .Baronet was a member, to the effect that exception to the ordinary rule, and that it shotild be acceded to. It was a matter for extreme 'egret, and one for which i tse lf, that no r ea ll y dsfa t . h e House should take shame to rate rule had been laid down, ses• tsion after session, for its guidance d. in these matters; so that is this case the Committee Trad© know whether to look to the report of the Wawa ot ri ' kid() published in March, or decide upon the matter on their own reapensibility. Ile thought it to be his duty, e s ver he could, topoint ou t oho evil is the House of the f t i em at present in . x isteace, and the clause that he ?; t : to enable Parliament to rev p i r s o e p t o h s e ed d:ci a s s ion a c l a use Ain] ply of its Committee. Sir B. PEEL said that the grounds npiaotawnohticahrathile. Committee ba' l acted were, that as there w way, they were not called upon to insert the ci one amid wish, or was more anxious than he was, No that the standing orders of the House should be strictly corn. -plied with. It motet, thotet, how ever, be remembered com at the House had limited its report. from Sir Wr • HEATHCOTE, .dered to withdraw, and the ouse appeared -- a 1........................... 166 .............. 46 —l2O k jority ........................ then agreed to. !ENIIANI ELECTION. the Cheltenham Election Committee the ts,ble and sworn, ......... • - a few words 41 1E1Ir • - ,i,,.. arra were ord --, i 314`:aatittin.,,there a - --, -- -a, ~.1, repot 4„ 1-. !' - -=7 1.;-,05 , " =. 2 .t it :. a e ; ' ~,` *-ai , • ~,•- C. , • as tt n . .%. 1 -7 1 . , 1- . 4 : VII ~' , . ro t of tt -- '-r -- K to t .\ -.. t' >IP •••.‘ ifi THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 24, lB4B , The chair and the table parted with from starvation on the one hand, and her Majesty, "From nature's impulse all unchecked by art," and without the advice of her responsible Ministers on the other, bringing, by her kindly iufluence, joy and gladness into hearts where gloom and sorrow had before prevailed.—(Hear, hear.) But in other towns dis• tress was not alleviated. He found, from the statement of Captain Willis, that 14,000 operatives were either out of work, or working only short time, in Manchester alone. There were 6,000 operatives in that town out of employment at the present moment. They were told that Bradford was in a prosperous con dition, and certain returns were produced, but it ap peared that there were 15,000 persons receiving relief from the parish in that town.—(Hear.) But it was not only cottons and woollens, and boots and shoe fronts of which he spoke on a former occasion as being imported, but he might be permitted to speak also of the lace trade. What was the state of Nottingham ? That might be learned from a letter of the Rev. Mr. Wright, of that town. But, to come to the lace trade ; a fourth of the operatives were bordering on starvation. The people would not go into the union workhouses, because they would disfranchise themselves. They would rather starve. The letters of clergymen, describing the distress and destitution, contained very startling statements. The Reverend Mr. Davis, of Notting halo, the Reverend Dr. Williams, the Reverend Mr. Howard, the Reverend Mr. Buckler, and other clergymen, had described, in letters, the state of the operatives in their respective towns. These fearful changes were simulta• neous with the change of their commercial system. In the suburbs of Nottingham houses were deserted, the poor inhabitants having been driven into the union. The Rev. Mr. Milton wrote, that the wonder was that the people had not become desperate. That was the effect of allowing the foreign lace to come into competition with the home manufacture. That was the result of those re turns for which he moved. In Mr. Porter's trade and navigation returns there were items suppressed to the amount of 1,186,0001., upon the ground that the value could not be ascertained. He understood that these re turns were to serve as a guide to the House, but the effect was, that you came aw ay , after inspecting them, more ignorant than you were before. They were doctored, a nd made up to su it a part i cu l ar purpose. which had been i m p orte d i n consequence had not been so import e d, em pl o y ment a Io n ff dt free egd goods tradec o a d t s e d, would have been afforded for 100,000 persons. The number of bankrupts had greatly increased lately, and yet the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) would have you believe that bankruptcies had gone quite out of fashion. In Scotland, within the last nineteen weeks there had been 292 Scotch sequestrations. In Paisley, out of 51 mills 18 had stopped altogether, and seven were working shirt time. It was not merchants, and planters, and brokers alone that were feeling the effect of this system, but its effect was being felt by persons in the lowest scale. From a comparison of the adver tisements from servants this year, in the Times news paper for situations, as compared with last year, the number would be found greatly on the increase. That was the case with all classes of domestic servants, while the advertisements from masters for servants this year. as compared with 1846, had fallen one-half. He did not mean to ascribe it all to free trade, but he had shown considerable grounds for ascribing much of the distress to the change in our commercial system, and when these returns, which he now moved for, were granted him, they no doubt would show more of the details connected with the ruin of the trade of this country than the Board of Trade was now willing to disclose.—(Hear.) The motion having been seconded and put from the chair, Mr. GLADSTONE said he fully admitted with the Noble Lord that great distress existed in this country ; he granted fully that he had shown to the House-Ist, a great degree of depression in the commerce of the country, but he did not believe the Noble Lord had raised the most insignificant prescription ; that it was in any degree to be inferred the legislation of former years had produced it. The Noble Lord not only failed to produce proofs, but he had not oven made an attempt to prove such a proposition., He referred to the lace trade of Nottingham, and quoted the opinion of the Rev. Mr. Brooke, iu a description given by him of the distress in that neighbourhood, on an opinion given by the Rev. Gentleman, that that distress was owing to the changes which took place in the law. Now he (Mr.Gladstone)would not say that the Rev. Gentleman had not something else to do besides studying political economy, but wether that were so or not, he had no hesitation in stating, that his opinion was entirely without foundation. Not another word did the Noble Lord's speech contain to show any connexion between distress among the lace-makers at Nottingham and the principles of free trade. He (Mr. Gladstone) should not follow the Noble Lord through the details of the statement he made to the House, except two, which impugned the accuracy of what he had said when those measures were under consideration. If the Noble Lord be correct in ascribng the distress of the country to the legislation then sanc tioned by the House, undoubtedly he was rendering a great public service in seeking to induce them to retrace their steps; but if, on the other hand, his opinions were erroneous, then he should tell him that, instead of con ferring advantage, he was inflicting serious injuries on the pulic interests, and, most of all, on the labouring classes, and those connected with labour. If the Noble Lord should teach those classes to refer the cause of that distress to the legislation he had alluded to, and if he induced them to seek a remedy by any changes in that legislation, it was impossible, in the first instance, that such changes could be brought about, and even it' they could, they would only aggravate the evil they were intended to remedy. The Noble Lord laid par iicular stress on the evil influence of free-trade measures on the silk trade and timber trade. With regard to the timber trade he (Mr. Gladstone) was obliged to confess that, lengthy as the statement of the Noble Lord was, he could not understand it. He should be glad if the Noble ',it'd committed himself' to some definite proposition, instead of making some vague declarations ; he should wish he had stated some facts, or committed himself boldly to a proposition on the subjects made in the changes of the law. On that subject, as far as he (Mr. Gladstone) could understand, he carefully avoided committing himself, but he sup posed the Noble Lord meant to say from the manner in which he spoke of their colonies, and of the colonial timber trade, that they were both fallen into something like ruin in consequence of the legislation of that House, under the influence of his Ri g h t Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth. If that were the case, the Noble Lord could not blame him, when he said that he Gladstone)while he alluded was grossly misinformed on the subject. He believed, however, he was correct in his quotation of prices, and to for tho th se e of Noble tB4B L . Lord so o pok w e as of he lB ( 47 l , r. great difference took place in prices; but he believed the Noble Lord was accurate in the quotation which he made for the year 1347. He was sorry to have used the words grossly misinformed. He must not, however, judge of the charges by the state of the markets in pe riods of depression, nor when the country had undergone a severe visitation of Providence, followed by the most outrageous and improvident speculations. The Noble Lord must not be surprised if the country, under these circumstances, should have fallen into a state of collapse, although, certainly, he had the advantage of stating facts which then existed and could not be disputed. But none could judge fairly of the success or failure of principles by such a period as that. They should look over a series of years, and compare the results of each, both in t i mes of prosperity and depression. He (Mr. Gladstone) was never more astonished than when the Noble Lord Found fault with him because, instead of confinires him self to a single year, which might vary, he took the aversete of ten years from the parliamentary returns then before the House. And because he (Mr. Gladstone) did that, the Noble Lord had called the result which he drew from well a scertained facts that could not be dis puted " his tile"_ ries r'E Mr. GL BENTINCKNo Lord GEORe I • GLADSTONE did certainly understand the Noble Lord to h a ve called the conclusions which he thus ns "theories ." but be drew from Parliamentaryakreetur he would the timber trade, and test that as it may,Noble Lord. lie should the satisfaction of the it in two ways ( should first give t he avera g e price and the quantity im take the price of the greate name st market ported, and then --1 for colonial timber, perhaps, in the world y, t he years 1840, 1841, 1842, the average Liverpool. In • 2s. °idand deducting 2Ae orice of timber per foot a • as_ e average price really l. left th duty, which was repea led, ls. 101. Now take the six years, including this portion of 1848, and the average price was Is. 9d. against Is. 10d. in the former year, showing a reduction of ld. per foot, which was calculated , acco rding to the Noble Lord, to drive their colonies into that d_ stateibescrof ruin which he had ed.-(Cheers and so earnestly and feelingly they be ruined by do how could that laughter.) N o w Hear, hear.) For his own part, clension in prices ?—( he was exceedingly glad of the reduction , because the d by the colonial timber, and monopoly heretofore enjoy!' aoyed, pressed hard on the enormous protection it e it but if pro the superior article from the Baltic it would follow that tho im portation ruin to their colonies, would have diminished portation of colonial timber Lord say their colonies With what face could the Noble• • _ of free trade, when he could were ruined by a system take plat e in the have seen that a vast incre ase had h ) He had his ear. • importation of that article.- - (H ear, authority from a circular is sued mby the eminent firm of Warton and Co., giving the changes six years in the before and six years after the lace. The tonnage commer cial policy of the country had token tipmber from British of ships employed in bringing six years before the America to Liverpool, for tit, on an average change took place in the a mountedlaw! for the six years after, to 152,000 tons annually; while _ ow N he would ask the it was 181,000.—(Hear, bear. ) that, and whether he Noble Lord what ho could say to that colonial interests would still persevere in assertiug protective duties? If were ruined by the removal of the p condition, the colonial the timber trade had been in that con their while to merchants would not have felt it worth ishe _ d prices, and send increased quantities at diminished to complain. of which they had no very great benefitedr by the The British British public were greatly at a cheaper rate. vantage of having a better article an increase in The Noble Lord then proceeded to show was got at the price of foreign timber, which het saysheought to have the expense of British merchants. But lace within known the rise of freight which had takenp _ i I havin had the ovi the last four years, and, certainly, the Committee on deuce of a witness examined before tauthority on the the navigation-laws, on unsuspected ,ground of p ersona l h o nour, or as an economist and phi blo Lord—he loiupher inf a llibl e i n the eye of the Nosed to believe meant Mr. G. F. Young—he was no t dispo • the Noble L or d was a ccurate in his d e ductions. Now rate of freight what did he state? The increase in thed showing only from the Baltic was 73. 6 d. per 10 , which he 3s. 6 i• per load given to the foreigner, reduction of the managed to get out of the increased ' duty of 40s. per load. But h is H ono urable Friend Mr. Gladstone's) object, and that of his Right foreigners should tho Member for Tamwortb , was, that increase the supply, and they had done so to an enormous extent, for in 1841 the import of timber from the B iltic was 140,000 loads, while in 1847 it was from 220,000 to 440,000. Having said he had great difficulty in detecting some broad and tangible shape in the Noble Lord's charge, he would leave that subject, with the con viction that he was not entitled to assume the race was one of ruin to British merchants, but, on the contrary, of great advantage to the public, and of little loss, in. deed to the commercial interests of the country. Then, with regard to silk, the duty was altered by a reduction of 2s. in the pound in 1842 on Indian silk. The Noble Lord was busy on that evening drawing inferences from matters of fact, and he was bound to say, as he already said, that he ought not to take any particular period for those inferences. lie had been endeavouring to show there was decay in the trade, and he took the years 1846 and 1847 as compared with 1844 and 1845, when it was moll known its prosperity was at its climax in the latter years, notwithstanding that a most important alteration took place in 1842. Lord G. BENTINCK denied that he had done so. He took two years of one period and compared them with two of another. Mr. GLADSTONE observed that no doubt the Noble Lord was a judge of what he meant to say, but on his words he (Mr. Gladstone) had a right to put a fair conclusion. With respect to distress in Spitalfields, it was to be considered whether that arose from the ma chinery in Manchester, or the existence of a rural silk trade in Essex and Herefordshire. lie did not believe however, that it was greater now than before, but at all events it was not fairly traceable to free-trade measures, and beside, the Noble Lord ought to recollect that that House was not legislating for Spitalfields, but for the entire United Kingdom.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord was undoubtedly correct when he said that greater importation of silk took place in 1844, 1845, 1846, and 1847. But did he not know that the: two former years were periods of unexampled prosperity, while the two latter were without a parallel for distress ? In every point of view his own statement was satisfactory. He showed that it increased in every particular by en average of the ten preceding years, and not by compar ing one period of prosperity with another. The Right Hon. Gentleman having referred to the increase of the imports of the raw materials as a proof that in creased employment was thus given to the people, proceeded. Were they to have nothing purchased Were they to introduce the wine-presses of France into England, or the houses used in the manufacture of sugar in the tropics ? The fallacy, in point of fact, was so gross that no one could go through the streets, and see the thousand examples placed before his eyes without laughing at the absurdity of the Noble Lord's com mercial policy. lie (Mr. Gladstone) did not know whether, in his peregrinations for commercial informa tion, he ever went up from the City to Lambeth in one of those boats which carry passengers for a penny each —(Laughter.) The movements of that vessel were managed by five or six persons, and yet they carried six or eight hundred persons in the course of an afternoon ; would the Noble Lord be acting as a man of common sense, or as a patriot, if he insisted, as in old times, that they should be carried by the watermen, because forsooth 100 of theta would be engaged, instead of the five or six who now managed the steamer !—(Laughter.) That was the way in which the Noble Lord ought to scrutinize those principles, from which he dated so much of the distress of the people of England. He (Mr. Gladstone) apprehended no evil consequences from any proceeding of the Noble Lord ; he thought, without meaning him I any offence, that the bit was in his mouth ; he believed his opinions on commercial questions were not likely to make the Parliament of Great Britain placelitself under his guidance in matters of politicnl economy, which he believed would bring this country to disgrace and misery. Mr. NEWDEGATE complained of the statements put forward to the country by the Right Hon. Gentle man who had just sat down, and the lion. Member for Westbury, and for his own part, believed that the country was at that moment suffering severely. The Hon. Gentleman, after referring to the quantity of silk imported into this country between 1842 and 1847, for the purpose of showing that the calculations on this subject by the Right Hon. Member for Oxford Univer sity were founded in error, said that atter all, the con sequence arising from the present state of the silk trade, was to reduce those engaged in it to the greatest desti tution and the deepest distress. In his own district, if it were not for the subscriptions of the gentry, the poor rates would have been unequal to the wants of the poor. One thousand pounds were subscribed in Coventry for the poor, and in seven weeks forty thousand loaves were distributed amongst the working classes who were thrown out of work owing to the present state of the silk and ribbon trade. One of the consequences of this state of things was, that the people were turning their attention to politics. What was this but turning their attention from trade to other matters, with the view of discovering means to subvert the institutions of the country. The free trade system had brought into the country such a quantity of silk goods as was calculated to paralyse the silk trade for years. He begged now to draw the attention of the House to the depreciation of our exports. The exports, generally, were depre ciated 17 per cent., and, in respect to silk goods, 34 per cent. Mr. GLADSTONE said he found he had overstated the case which he had put to the [louse. He forgot to deduct the exports from the imports for the years 1846 and 1847, but he found that, taking the whole twelve years, there was an increase in the quantity of raw and thrown silk used in the country. . Sir G. CLERK wished to say a few words on this subject. He was anxious that every information should be laid before the House, because he believed that the more the principles of free trade were considered, the more they would be found in accordance with the pros perity of the country. But it was said that the people of Spitalfields and Coventry were in a state of distress. Now was this the first time that distress was to be found in these districts? The Noble Lord could find no parallel for the distress of 1847, except that in 1826 in England, and 1841 in Scotland. But this was before any altera tion-had taken place, in the policy of the country as re spected protection. The Bight Hon. Gentleman then adverted to returns made by Captain Willis, from which it appeared that the silk trade in Manchester was in great activity. Ho was prepared to prove to the Noble Lord (Bentinck) that in 1846 there was 4i- millions of pounds of raw silk imported into this country, and that in 1847 there was a very great falling off, to the amount of no less than 60,0001b5. He also found that there was a very great increase in the year 1844 in ma nufactured silk, for in 1844 it amounted to 700,0001bs.; in 1845, to 714,0001193.; in 1846, to 808,0001bs.; and in 1847, to 907,0001b5.; which is an argument that cannot be refuted. He would next refer to the losses sustained by watchmakers, and the Government, by the importa tion of foreign watches, and was ready to show that the watchmakers of this country memorialised the Treasury in consequence of goOds of that description being im ported to the amount of 200,0001., which caused a re duction of 10 per cent. in the trade of the watchmakers of this country. He then alluded to the manufacture in the woollen trade, and argued that the Noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) laboured under a very great hallucination. lie should say that foreign disturbances did not in the least tend to the benefit of this country by cutting off the trade of foreign countries. Mr. LA BOUCHERE said that he considered that the measure introduced by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) with respect to the corn-laws and other such mea sures were worthy of this House and this country, and he felt assured that this country would be long proud of such a measure. He then supported it, and as a private Member was proud to have done so, and was therefore strongly opposed to the motion of the Noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck). For with respect to raw silk imported into this country he was prepared to prove that that trade has very much increased; but it should be recol lected, on the other hand, that the export trade of manufactured silk has also increased. The Noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) should also know that there is a diminution this year of 3,0001b5. of raw silk imported into this country when compared with last year, which must tend in some degree to the injury of the manufac turing interest of this country. He should say, though he was opposed to the motion as being unnecessary, that he should not object to the returns demanded, but would add, that the Government could not be answerable for the accuracy of those returns. Mr. M. GIBSON said that the first part of the even ing was employed in putting off the business of the country to morrow, by engaging the House not to meet then. He considered that the motion of his lion. Friend (\tr. Hume) was worthy of attention. As a system of policy, the Noble Lord should have made a substantive motion, and have taken the sense of the House upon it, instead of wasting time in discussing unopposed returns. The Noble Lord might rely upon it, he would not be considered as the friend of the people by endeavouring to add to the price of the loaf, or sugar, or tea, and he might tell him this, that such sympathy for their dis tress was sure to be regarded, not as the tears of their friends, but as those of the crocodile. He could not be called the friend of the people for that, neither could he claim to be the friend of the farmer, if he endeavoured to restore a monopoly now that he was exposed to the com petition of the foreigner. Mr. HENRY said that he remembered well how the Hon. Member for Manchester used, night after night, to turn to the same subject of agitation, until he obtained what he sought for, and, remembering that, ho felt sur prised to find that Hon. Member complaining of others for doing the same thing. Ho did not, nor, indeed, could he, deny that the Noble Lord the Member for King's Lynn had a sympathy for the distress of the poor. yet he said it was useless. Now, he could tell the Hon. Member that they had their own conscientious opinions on political matters, just as he had, and that they were not to be repressed from uttering them by any such means as he had chosen that evening to have re course to. Lord G. BENTINCIC briefly explained, complaining that his argument had been much misrepresented, or much misunderstood, by the Right Honourable Member fur Oxford. With regard to the observations of the llonourable Gentleman, the Member for Oxford, he confessed he was much surprised to hear him accuse him of endear oaring to enhance the price of sugar, when he had aimed, in particular, to take a halfpenny off the duty on colonial sugar. The Right Honourable Gentleman rose to stop a discussion, when the object for which it had been commenced had been obtained. Then it was that the Right Honourablo Gentleman wasted the time of the House. lie was at a loss to ac count for his great dislike to Epsom Downs, unless it arose from the circumstance, that he had been intro duced by Sir Thomas Gooch, as a most promising Pro tectionist representative for the county of Surrey; and perhaps, too, he well knew what a choking hill there was at Epsom for colts that were disposed to run jady. —(Great laughter.) If it were at all inconvenient to the Government, however, he could obtain the returns from his own friends in the City, without troubling them. , The returns were then ordered. WALSALL ELECTION PETITION. The SPEAKER informed the House that he had re ceived notice that it was not the intention of the peti tioners in the case to proceed with the petition against the return for the borough of Walsall. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. lIUME said that he was very sorry that at that late hour he could not proceed with the motion of which he had given notice.—(Cries of "Go on, go on.") It was then past eleven o'clock.—(Go on.) Hon. Members who cried " Go on" would allow him to judge what he thought best to do. He knew the duty he had under taken, and that it would be impossible for him at that hour to state what he thought ought to be stated with re spect to so important a question.—(hear.) And to leave the matter in doubt would be the worst of all courses. — (Hear, hear.) Ile had been waiting the whole evening in order to bring the question forward, and no person was more disappointed than he was at not being able to do so. He found that the first open day would be the 20th of June.—(Hear, hear, and laughter from the opposition benches.) lie would fix the motion for i.hat day, and he hoped he would then meet with no impedi ment.—(Laughter). Mr. F. O'CONNOR moved the adjournment of the House, in order that there should be a motion before the House on which he could speak. He agreed with the lion. Member for Montrose that he should be allowed to speak for himself, but he hoped that in future he would not undertake to speak for the country.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) On a former occasion he had come from a great distance to speak on the motion. He had deceived him (Mr. O'Connor' , a first time, but it would be his own fault if the Hon. Member for Montrose deceived him a second time.—(Laughter.) The Hun. Member for Oxford was quite right in saying that the subject of the Hon. Gentleman's motion was but " a tub to the whale." It was an important subject, however ; but it could have been brought on that night, and the debate adjourned. The Hon. Member for Montrose asked the working classes to fraternize with the middle classes, and he had come to the conclusion—but with great violence to his feelings—(Laughter)—to abate a great portion of the principles he had always strenuously advocated, and which he would always continue to advo cate. He had not been well treated, for were it not for the assurance of the Hon. Member that he would bring the subject forward on the first opportunity, he (Mr. O'Connor) would bring on his motion. After the middle classes making an appeal to the working classes for union, and atter having been before deluded by the middle classes, he asked the Hon. Member for Montrose whether he thought it likely that he for one, or that the working classes, would confide in hihn?—(Cheers from the Opposition.) lie told the Hon. Gentleman, and those with whom he acted, that they must make a de termined stand. They had joggled the people for the last month, and now they were going to postpone the question for another month, whereas he might have brought it forward that night, arid the debate would bo adjourned. He was not surprised that Hon. Gentlemen opposite should think they obtained a great triumph, and that they should smile and treat with derision the posi ti,,n in which the Hon. Member had placed his consti tuents.—(Laughter.) Ho would not be a party to such "a delusion, mockery, and snare."—(Hear hear, from the Opposition.) He would not be a party to counselling the working classes to place confidence in men who he believed in his soul and conscience only intended to use them for their own purposes.—(Loud Opposition cheers.) lie believed that the country would not be satisfied ut the postponement of the motion, and he agreed with the lion. Member for Oxford that it was only " a tub to the whale."—( Laughter.). Mr. COBDEN—I - think there can be but one opinion in the House and in the mind of every honest and intelli gent man in the country, that my Hon. Friend the Mem ber for Montrose is blameless for the delay which has taken place.—(Hear, hear.) I think no reasonable man will suppose that any man, having the conduct of so im portant a question, ought to bring it forward at eleven o'clock at night.—(Hear.) I object to so important a question being discussed at that hour, and if it was brought on at five o'clock I question if a whole evening would suffice for its proper discussion.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Gentleman has undertaken to give advice, not in very courteous or complimentary language, to my Hun. Friend.—(Hear.) It I might venture to give ad vice to my lion. Friend, I advise him that in the conduct of this important question he will nit follow the advice, and still less the example of the Hon. Gentlemen— (Cheers)—who calls himself the leader of the working classes, and who for nine years has been advocating the people's charter. Mr. O'CONNOR—Fifteen years. Mr. COBDEN—I believe the lion. Gentleman him self stated the other day, at the Convention, that after his fifteen years of leadership, he had but one man in the House on whom he could depend, in his own absence, to advocate the principles of the charter.—(Name, name.) I believe one Member was mentioned, but Ido not know who he was.—(Laughter.) I think that one fact issuificient to warn my Hen. Friend how he follows the track of the lion. Member for Nottingham; and if aeything can open the eyes of the working classes of this country to a just sense of the value of the leader ship of the Hon. Member, it is the position in which their cause has been placed in this House, and in the country, by the Hon. Gentleman, after his fifteen years of leadership. Sir, I have had a loeg experience of the Hon. Gentleman, and he will net accuse rue of any per sonal hostility towards him, for certainly no man has lavished so many compliments on me as the Hon. Member for Nottingham; and, with my experience of his conduct out of this House, by contriving to array the working classes against every man who was disposed to assist them in carrying forward their ' objects, if they wished them to succeed—l say the Hon. Member has done more to retard the political pro gress of the working classes than any public man who ever lived in this country.—(Hear, hear.) I speak after a long experience of the lion. Gentleman; and en person has a better right to speak on this subject than I. For seven years I had directed against me the relentless hos tility of the lion. Gentleman while advocating what I believed then, and what I believe still to be, the cause of the working classes—l mean the abolition of the tax on food.—(liear, hear.) Tout lion. Gentleman did all he could to array the working classes against me on that subject, and I had more hostility to encounter from him and his party than I had from the Duke of Buckingham and all his followers.—(lelear, hear.) What was the result? I never fraternized with the Hon. Gentleman or his myrmidons—l never fraternized or succumbed to them fur a moment.—(Hear, hear.) I always treated him as the leader of a small, insignificant, and powerless party. I never identified him with the mass of the working classes of' the country.—(Hear.) I treated him then, as I treat him now, nut as the leader of the working classes of the country, but at the leader of an organized faction of the smallest portion of the community.—(Hear.) I never failed to beat him and his followers in public assemblies in every county in the kingdom.—(Hear, hear.) I speak for myself, and only for myself; but in any agitation which I enter upon for the political fran chises of the working classes, as I never have, I never will, fraternize with the Hon. Gentleman or his organized followers; and, as I said before a hundred times, I say again, that I set them a; defiance now.—(hear, hear.) I exhort my Hon. Friend not to be deluded by anything that falls from the lion. Gentleman as to his power with the working classes of the country. As he was weak before, he is powerless now; and as to his authority with them, it is equally unimportant and uniefluential with respect to any political question.—(Hear, hear.) My lien. Friend may feel assured, notwithstanding the unwarrantable and ferocious attack of the lion. Gentleman, that the people of this country would not withdraw that confidence which the great mass of the nation had in him.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. O'CONNOR—When the Hon. Member says that he beat me at every public meeting, I cm only say that I never had the pleasure of meeting him but once. Mr. COBDEN—I said the lion. Gentleman or his followers. Mr. 11. BERKELEY postponed his motion on the subject of vote by ballot to the 20th of June. Mr. O'CONNOR said he would withdraw his motion for an adjournment.—(No, no.) Lord J. RUSSELL—The Hon. Gentleman only moved the adjournment for the purpose of addressing the House. I hope the House will allow the other business on the paper to be disposed of. I cannot see that there is any rThjection, or anything unusual, in the Hon. Member for .Montrose postponing his motion till a future opportunity, as he was nut able to bring it on to night.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the other ques tion which the Hon. Gentlemen raised between them selves, the Hon. Member for Nottingham saying that the working classes had no confidence in the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose, and the Hon. Member for the West Riding saying that no confidence ought to be placed in the lion. Memuer for Nottingham— (Laughter)—without making any observation on this question of personal confidence, I must say that my belief is that the middle and working classes of the country neither wish for the one great reform nor the other—(Cheers)—that they are neither anxious for the People's Charter, nor for this great plan of reform which comes near the Charter, as proposed by the Hon. Member for Montrose.—(Hear, hear.) I believe they wish neither one nor the other, and that they see their true interest is that there should be a gradual progress of reform, and that this House should give its attention to the questions before us, and that in the peace arid quiet of the country lies their true interest.—(Loud Ministerial and Opposition cheers.) The motion for the adjournment was then withdrawn. POOR-LAW (IRELAND). Mr. FRENCH, in moving for a Select Committee inquire into and report on the statements contained which to wa in s the petition from the county of RoscommAoina, presented on the 15th day of this instant working of the Irish poor-law, comrlained thaty as to the the poor law system was introduced into Ireland a fter it bad been pronounced unsuitable to that country inflicted on Irelandentry on the highest authority. It was on the unfounded statements and mistaken cal culations of Mr. Nichols, and the result is, that it entailed the greatest misery on the people. liedetain continuing; contended that they w ere not justified in tinui the Irish poor-law. B ut he should not their at that late hour, he should content liimself with moving that a Select Genini ttee be appointed to inquireinto and report on the sttaetements contained in the Roscoin mon petition, as to the working of the Irish poor-law. Sir G. GREY regretted that this moti on h a d no t been postponed , for it was impossible that duo attention co uld at that hour b e g iven to the subject. For his own pzrt, he could not advise the House to agree to the motion. Witnesses for a Committee on the poor-law could not, without inconvenience, be brought over at present, from Ireland; and with respect to the particular petition to which the Hon. Member referred no inquiry could be instituted respecting it which did not assume the form of an investigation on the general question. Looking forward to the time when a really useful in quiry might b.:, instituted, he trusted the House would negative this motion, it it were insisted on, particularly as the British Association was now spending 10,000/. a week in Ireland, and making the greatest exertions to alleviate the misery of the people--(Hear.) Colonel CONOLLY did not go the length of deny the subversion of the Irish Poor-law ; but thought required material amendment. Properly carried ou he had no doubt that law would prove a decided bless ing, but of course it could not be expected to he brough t to maturity in an hour. Much of its administration, however, was very arbitrarily and despotically managed. Mr. Tvvisleton's name was much objected to, and he was bound to say that he did not think it was such as to en sure confidence or invite cc-operation. Mr. R. M. FOX said that Mr. Twisleton was an ex tremely urbane and sensible person. Sir D. NORREYS censured the arbitrary manner in which no fewer than 40 boards of guardians in Ireland had been dismissed. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL hoped the Hon. Gentleman would withdraw his motion for the present. There wss much inquiry needed on the subject before it could be judiciously brought forward. Sir W. SOMERVILLE assured the House that the dissolution of boards of guardians in Ireland was tte no matter of taste with the Commission, but simp l y a mar of necessity. The Commission had every desire to con duct their administration without any approach to arbi trary- rules. Colonel DUNNE thought that a searching inquiry into the working of the poor•law in Ireland was abso lutely essential to the well-being and tranquillity of that country. He condemned the summary dismissal of the board of guardians as quite unjustified by the conduct of the majority of the dissolved boards. Mr. P. S. BUTLER concurred in the necessity for an inquiry into the poor-law in Ireland; the present admi nistration of which excited much dissatisfaction there. Mr. FRENCH withdrew his motion. NATIONAL LAND COMMITTEE. Mr. F. O'CONNOR moved for a Select Committee to inquire into the National Land Company and its prospects. ROMAN CATHOLIC JURORS (IRELAND). Mr. KEOGH, in moving for the returns of which lie had given notice, begged to premise that he was act uaten en by no sympathy for the gentlemen who had lately be put on their trials for sedition in Dublin. He thong hl an insult had been offered to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and they thought so themselves, by their excll sion from the jury panels. The list of juror s for th e city of Dublin consisted of 600. Of these 48 were selected to form the panel, and this number was reduced by th e Crown striking off 12 and the traverser striking off 12 ,.. The Crown had, at the late trial of Mr. Meagher. off 11 out of 12 Roman Catholics who were left on the were 1 ° revised jury list. Amongst the gentlemen who struck off as Roman Catholics were some of the m°„ st respectable inhabitants of Dublin. He would sPilc r ' e l e particularly Messrs. Campbell and Mr. Power. o f'.i"" firmer highly creditable merchants, the latter a Ma n fortune. Now what he desired to ask the lion. Baronet s truce opposite was, what were the grounds upon which I , Crown lawyers in Dublin had struck these gentl elme r li n i . names off the jury panel ? How did the G /e i . b . went think such an act could be performed I°,o out causing great exasperation in the minds of Roman Catholics of Ireland? He was entitled to a d ' et upen whose authority this was done? Was it by °I. 1, of the Secretary for Ireland, or of the Attorney - Geaere _ himself a Roman Catholic? or was it by o rder of the n Noble Lord the First Lord of the Treasury, who had P e a former occasion in that House denounced the Pre e et t i b e a pnrsued by the Government of dealing unfairly wit'itbe jury list in the case of Mr. O'Connell? He 'I II ° . syn told that the thing was done by solicitor for Ireland. But he would not believe t hat t!li i : was the case. Not only was the jury panel so dealt . w ‘ l ir. in the case of Mr. Meagher, but also in that of Mrt Mr. Kemmis, the Cro. S. O'Brien. There could be no confidence in the sotaere nistration of the law in Ireland whilst such practices allowed. The Governmeat was without an excuse forelela b conduct on the occasion in question. There bad t ee some great blunders committed in Ireland during go late trials. He believed that if the Roman Catb °s e who had been struck off had been left on , and l ess who had been left on the panel had been struck of " ra , result would have been to have rendered the G°ve e - e ia ment certain of a verdict. The only one of the 134.40 Catholics left on the jury was a person of no notel'aye had been chairman of a repeal meeting only four s eis before. He went about boasting, after the jury w sect charred, what he had done. But the most curllag was that he was left on the list by a mistake; for 13 ; he vestry-clerk of St. Mark's Church it was conclude ra t a was a Protestant, whereas he was a staunch I° for , Catholic.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He had broug ht i e et ward this question, in ord e r that Government Ittoe have some opportunityexplaining of a eirctn' e tj o n g9l which w as ca l cu l ate d to cause muc h discontent Ow the Roman Catholics of Ireland. t ugh! Mr. C. ANS I'EY seconded the motion. ll° - T h ,. ° Jetie that the conduct of her Majesty's law officers in - ",. - w ere had been one tissue of error, and that Governmen t bound to take prompt steps for a speedy reformat° and Lord J. J. RUSSELL regretted that the II un til Learned Member had not postponed his ra oll°n e l ' aufb there l had been time to receive information from ,i r eve fe' 1e had not certainly expected that the present ment would have been exposed to a charge of PO ° Ile on the gro u nd o f exc l u di ng C a th o lics from juries', )ba t entertained then, as he had formerly, the oPini°,,,tvela the exclusion of Roman Catholics from juries as I'Rciiage"" an extremely wrong and unjustifiable Priic ce rores ° (Hear, hear.) He would remind the House that •eeci t reee l e s Catholics had under the present Governmen- to ts, - 1 as much favour in public appointments as prole might be evidenced by the fact of the A t toreeP, ie eo l ", and the Under-Secretary f or I re l a nd being b° l , a e beer ( ' bers of that persuasion.—(Hear.) The momen t e d° l3 l that prosecutions for sedition had been deterra b l e bee' ho had written to his Noble Friend at e t tno ire' of the Irish Government, expressing his hope til e jade terference should take place with regard to cle itto e For his part he would much rather see men s & e er 9 'i than that any such conduct should take place- -- ,c l J. His Noble Friend had, in reply to hi ea ( I ),_ °r „ he w, j " sell), expressed a similar opinion; and %vi e " Nc lue ec t i t informed that a Roman Catholic had been °_,,ere from the jury without any reason arising frog e u,' s e ar political conduct, his Noble Friend expressed i'' e r e be en o r prise, and stated, that if such conduct had ledge wll approbation. it had been entirely without h s is Iwo,. be cou (Cheers.) Having said o touch not go fui Cher into details until he had real' Os v er. e t con fete information. Ile believed, how ,Geaer neither the Lord-Lieutenant nor the Attorney dof r e IV had any wish to exclude a juror on the groun et• or that the jury should be exclusively Prot t hat thst ee facts proved that to have been the case, sevlntlleet the person had been left on who had held out_a e O 0 , 5 a nu majority of the jury, considering that atereo,ls,.. bound by his oath to act contrary to the regard ;rt of the faction to which he belonged. W ith attar P a o the Hon. and Learned Member's motio n, the 0 , a 3 a t of it could n o t be conceded, seeing th at ther ' nu m y ' ' legal record o f the religion of jurors, b o t tO ouo r there could be no possible objection. Ile ! h _ d hirth e say iu conclu s ion that the moment he reeelr satinfee; information he would lay it on the table for tn t e w b e te/. r Lion of the House. Ile could only repeat th a iija e the l . r example might be set by others of claws; to tbeio obligations or making their duty subservont b r v soa e t t politics, the Government should be the 1 0 ,1,f e c ie Al ec , follow such an example.—(Hear, hear.) t he it, l _9; should be merely to get respectable persona e tee and then to leave the administration of just i ( e c b e ers.) o. hands without respect to religion or part Y .- -t h ie o° o , Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL regretted th f u rthe r 1 e and Learned Friend had not waited for matter cat% formation. His opinion was that when the math so tau' o , to be investigated the blundering which th ° ge n spoken of, would be found to have rested wi3 O Cru tloman who had been so much eulogised,. !our feel Solicitor, and not with the Attorney-Genrni_hiiiiy of t7 O Mr. REYNOLDS vindicated the respect s % p an ei Roman Catholics who had been struck off the aener alt the case of Mr. S. O'Brien. . • t hat pee Sir GEORGE GREY defended the .A.ttorneL7 ofece!. and stated that at the special commission of po had not challenged a single juror on the score ° or religion. ONS °l4 ' tb After a few words from Mr. F. O'C Ti bring °l4l. motion was agreed to. IRISH REPRODUCTION LOA N A jo Mr. J. A. SMITH obtained l eave to 1,. to dissolve this association. Two e'cl°c The II ouse adjourned at a Quarte r to -d e la* gr. INSTITUTION OF CIVIL ENGINEER!. s tittain o, the President of this distinguishedf 11.9„,_.esday issued invitations for a conve rsozione the 30th of May. ---- 110.5' t1.111211b. BromPt °ll ' On the 17th inst., at Ovington-square, tbe wife of Daniels, of a daughter. Ws. r n ;,isivtaa re, Re o v. n G t . h ri e olin9tvhileinwstheeeaterW, oofffoardsoVn, stillbyicarage , th e On the 21st inst., at Fortes-terrace, • e of G. IC. T. Spalding, of a son. wt f ire Oa the 22d inst., at Montague-square, tith e fife b Rickards, of a son. 7-At the t out ' On the 19th inst., at Rvde, Isle of Wle e tog goo Rev. I. Nichol), M.A., of Uske, in the county of a daughter. by . th e MA URI ED- ; e kenba l : ant , to Oa the 17th inst., at Trinity Church, he f the Rev. T. Bevan, G. 11. Cox, Esq., of th Esq, ° Jane, second daughter of the late T. Mel ° the Mg. Island of St. Vincent. by care tinet On the 18th inst., at St. Martin'e W. K. Joyce, H. Bethune Esq., ei Brig ft porking"iestor, third daughter of the Rev. J. Joyce, vicar 0, , w es to l _, t ee Doric h i t o o g s , , On the 22d inst., at St. Margaret's Chn'iatigliter B. W. Plumb, Esq., of New York, to Enl ll Y , " late Gabriel Murphy, Esq., of Dublin. JJA n- DIES. nth W n ' es e' ege e .` l , o sl y On Dec. 30, 1847, at Sdney, cock, Esq., formerly of th y e Stock Exchang ! re% coal On the 16th inst., at St. Helier's, Jersoci,63. p ots, Purser and Paymaster, Royal Navy, ag_ e _ A w ife of 14 i 39 f. On the 18th inst., Anne, th e belove,-, Esq., of Woolwich, aged 39. of On the 19th in„t., at Gloucester -place reli ct Thomas, aged 57. e d 86,gary bill ' On the 20th inst., at Camberwell, ag relict of the 14t8 W. Hales, Esq. 'i l On the 20th inst., at Brixtou,, 3f3r e 3 r ' s'et - h un Teocr as, groom, Esq., of the Tax oflice, bon , ace , St. 2 ' garet, tke beloved wife of W. West, q de, nee' str°ll • the On the 20th inst., at Egreinont-Rks_ age d 46- d, oute r is 1/3 On the 20th inst., at the Woodlan c e pta to On the 17th inst., B. A. bird tershire, R. W. Lucas, Esq., ae,,,,red 76E. Esq., late d ug ISth. Royal Irish Regiment. bs shire, age - 6. of J. Hemp. Esq., of Caton, - ag ed 61. ae ed . a gtot n Elizabeth,(l eo. On the '2oth inst., at Hastingrs, At Kenilworth, E. Simpson, Esq., e •rs'grvi On the 19th inst., at Dover,i•Liee. - b st°}' ivile of L. Burnand, Esq., aged 75. Ann Elizabeth On the 20th inst., in the A. _ , the A On the 19th haat , Hackney, •0, - --- 1;0 0 1 1 'i R. Zinzan, Esq. -- e — njßDO Ple' r e 0 No. 112, Strand, Printer, at tu London: Printed and Published Sce 0 111 ,.. 5 e " 0 9 103 " / Middlesez, Wednesday, May 24 18 8 • Strand, in the Precinct of th