The Sun. — London, England, 1835-08-22 00:00:00

= n with soli arse hitherto vhich I de- I believe,. —( Cheers. ) this subject %vill appcal ask him if of the most r, hear.) I ee on Pubik , s presenteti catty exceed' I arc double'. More, in of thin„ than x.—( Bear• ) luer said the ❑ce, that ho and un- Gentleman and merited t not ariien ? In Catho oration Acts, —( Cheers.) f my Right their policy o;ce to op'' t, erlated it. same liberty cd wittt him r g i v i ng . 1 :0 ►lic opinion , narrowest r erolu' ecide inscrip th wants S not the een used for this ors upon )duced ? nd V°l - o itract iisinflu - Lotorioas roseciltl ere 501' lad pr e ' danger' tax or a lie doe r I wan' ind itin many , n the be clan- wun ity, las been ical the publi or dur to pul):: impost" LI have You noxiou s rife, in with the ot Stie lOCS he .) I t's 551 1 4: py c gle o ' hat the n enor noir sk 1 0 ° - [3y this gain' know' !vent!c• F or the etrA if rt was reduced to one penny, we would require only three I times the present number of papers to be sold to renit:„ e eet e the revenue. Does not any man, who is acque: habit s o f the need with the workin classes know—doee not eetey men Who is away g e el' their extraordinary desire for knowledgxe ee . ceetifie ;n1;1 political—feel that we snould then have three times as man y pap ers published as at present Right Besides, then my Hon oura bl e F riend having mark this concession, would be justifi e d i n coming down to this House, and demanding new and more efficient laws for the suppression of smuggling--the res ult of which bring all, or nearly all, of the slippery fish that at present crept out of the meshes, into lily Right Hon. Friend's net.—( ) Then, in addition to the increased ellen:dation, there would be the increased advertisement duty, and the increased paper duty ;so that without being at all too , sango: la I cannot see how the revenue can be--bv a ny means—a loser.—( Hear, hear, and loud cheering.) Suppose the stamp duty was reduced, as I have proposed, to on e eipenny, such papers as the Tines and Chronicle, bids re_ quire a large capital, would not be able to sell for less than -11. But new papers not requiring so large a capital weeel he called into existence —papers partly literary, and containing the news of the day—half scientific and. half meimercial, which would this attract many readers, Ateeve all many reli gious publications would be called into existence, supported by different religious societies, and coming forth two or three times a week. Thus a new class would be called into existence, and all pro'' • euctive to the revenue in three ways__Ay the stamp duty, the advertisement duty, and the paper duty.—( Hear.) It was stated in a periodical a short time since that if the whole duty Were taken off, ten times as many papers would be published as et present ; and therefore, with only a tax of a penny, I have a right to assume that three times as many would be published. (Hear, hear, hear.) The amount of a p enn y tax upon t hree times the present number of sheets, would be 400,0001. I greatly underrate the paper duty if I take the increase at 30,000/., and the increased advertisement duty at 20,0001., !taking a total of 450.0001, which equals the sum produced by the present 4d. tax. The increased paper duty I have greatly under-rated, as a high duty diminishes the profit and the sale to a very considerable extent. In a calculation made respeeting the Penny illagazine, it has been shown that if a tax of one penny was imposed, the sale would be decreased one -tenth, and comparing the increased duty on the stamp with the loss of revenue on the paper duty, it was clearly as 4001etThined that th e E xc h equer would lose on that paper alone pall a -year.—( Hear, bear.) Appl y t hi s argument gene- Ys and you will see how much the Revenue loses by the PrePent hi g h rate o f d uty. The system has robbed the Re 're'due on the one hand of more than it has paid into it on the but He ar .) I shall not det a i n th e H ouse muc h l eeger ; 'lt before I conclude, I must say, that the presen t Govern- Ment owes something to the provincial Press ; and, with few Thexceptions, the Provincial press has Petitioned for some relief. ey have supported the Governme nt no bl y —( C heers)—and bout their assistance I doubt much if any liberal Govern reent could have made bead against the determined and V ehement attacks of three morning Papers of great circulation and influence.—( Hear, hear.) Yet these Papers were cramped in their exertions, and limited in their power, by narrowing the audience they addressed. You owe something talso to those who, supporting opinions more (I should say) de ermined and d rea d e d t h an your own, had vet supported you u li ra nkly and generously. The panegy r i c w hi c h my Ri g h t nn. Friend h as to-night pronounced upon that class who, Professing these opinions, have yet compromised them to a certain extent, and given to th e Government their independent and undivided support, is another argument in favour of my rl intion ; for there is no concession which will be looked upon as a greater boon, nor none which will be repaid more largely a nd generously by the party who, whether in praise or blame, r ecalled the Radical party, than a concession upon this point. any body of men had ever acted from the purest public t M otives, part r i o ti ca ll y an d di s i nterestedly, I believe it is that „ ar ty, and therefore I d o say t h at my Right Honourable riend owes them some concession. —(Loud cheering.) The last argument I shall use is, that the Government owe sit to themselves and to their own consistency, to make ame concession t o th e P ress. They will not in such a case be sacrificing their own opinions to please a great body of the Public, and of their supporters—they will be merely following UP those sentiments which have been expressed on former oc casions; for there are few now on the Treasury Bench who have 144, on some former occasion, expressed themselves favourable te the measure, and among them I may enumerate the Right H on• the President of the Board of Trade, the Noble Lord to th e i Secretary for Ireland, th e Ri g h t H on. t h e C hancellor of e Excheauer, and the Right H on . hi s M a j esty ' s present At °llteY-Gereral. I have the grea t est confidence, therefore, 4 the present Government, an d I h ope upon t hi s question, as upon all others, Isbell live to see them faithful to the great P r inciple of Reform, which proportions power to intelligence, an d which, while it renders the constitution mot popular, pre 'vents the danger by rendering the people more enlightened.— °lnch cheering.) So strong is my reliance upon the objects and intentions of the present Government, that I am satisfied t he more widely their sentiments were diffused and known to the readin g public, the more generally wou ld t h ey b e approve d . r egret to see them shut themselves out from half the na tional enthusiasm and half the popular support which would thherwise b e t h e i rs, unt il they bring the laws they enact and c Principles they a d vocate c h eap l y, eas il y, an d f am i l i arly p e e, ore that great ;,ass of the community for whose benefit th ey have laboueed, and in whose cause they have won their Most i mperishable renown.—( Cheers. ) It is with this hope t ril h ;. t I now trove that the House do resolve itself into a Com ti,`tee of the whole House, to consider the question that, for tho teor e general diffusion of knowledge, it is expedient that tamp Duty on Newspapers be reduced to one penny. ,I.ne Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud cheering. ,'"r• HUME—I rise, Sir, to second the motion of the Hon. 13''ielnber with very great pleasure. My opinions upon this ilb inet are so well known to the House and the country ge nerally, that it is scarcely necessary for me to repeat them, and there is little danger of their being misunderstood.—( Hear, Frr•) I shall merely observe that the arguments of my Hon. t h r ' e nd appear to me so convincing, that I cannot but hope ce eY will have due weight with the Chancellor of the Ex cinequer..._( Hear. ) If his Majesty's Government, after the eelararion of this night, believe that we have given them our ill't!cere and honest support, I ask of them to grant us but tals one boon—l do not ask it for their own sakes, or for their nadvantag e , b u t as a b oon to t h e country that has so meg fr nously s u pp orte d t h em ; and even i f they differ a little fie m us Upon this question, let them, as we have done, sacri a little of their opinions, to reward those who have stood 13' them i n the struggle.—( Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) L e d° not recollect the exact number of petitions which have a Presented u p on thi s su bj ect; b ut I b el i eve t h ere i s scarce ar ße town in England that has not appeared by petition at the bar of the House, and given expression to its wishes for ..e repeal of this tax. Why, Sir, all the parties who had eche rreorted his Majesty's Government, from 1830 up to the esent moment, and enabled them to carry through the im ti7t4nt Ref orms pro j ecte d b y them, are deeply interested in ar c question. Th e peop l e are as ki ng i n every quarter who his in t he Persons who h ave i mpose d t h ese taxes t h at h ave k ept 40, darkness 9 Who are those wh o h ave s h ac kl e d the Pr ess , Pep . vhat objects ha ve th e y h a d i n v i ew i n so d o i ng ? Si r, t h e h T h rl e are a bl e to see pretty well what these objects are. t4 ° Right Hon. Gentl eman an d t h e G overnment ere re l ieving tie s - P e °Ple of Ireland f rom t h e pressure o f taxat i on — t h en, e oI YIY, the time has come when something ought to be done i th ,e milli o n s o f t hi s country—let the Government, then, th e 'e tt lem this cheap k now l e d ge, an d t h ey wou ld con f er upon I c ° ll ntry one of th e greatest b oons i n t h e i r power. — ( Ch eers. ) sp ea k therefore, to my lion. Friends who are below me—l d o t 4 them as one most anxious to keep them in the situa the, theY are now in —( Cheers)—l call upon them not to the m the millions of people who are anxious to give ti e g, every support. Let them do this—reduce the stamp du -4,--es) and they may laugh to scorn the opposition of those who tot:illcidersonotfhtehoether side. They were carried into office on the people, because they were thought to be ,rierous for the welfare of the people.—( Loud cheers.) 1), let them give this boon to the people, and their s el iport w ill not only be continued but so much increased as to t i c api c them t o put aside the opposition going on, either in No n House or in any other pl ace .—( Ch eers. ) L et t h e Ri g h t rememb er Gentleman at once then abrogate those laws which they were imp ose d b y their eemies and the enemies of th e JPeople, It cannot, surely, afford these Gentl emen an y sa tisfaction t o k now that 511 persons have been imprisoned by th em. Ott The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER dissented was )1 ,- ,c by the Government. s' \ll % tiUME—I do not c are . Si r, w h et h er t h e law i s put in er e by the Govern ment or b y common informers, but the fact f. ,t as I hav e s t a t e d, t h at f rom the time they came into office up "'" March, 1834, no less than 511 persons suffered im r_ " iso nment for a breach of t h ese laws.—( Hear, hear.) L e t c Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nuke . • ;' z ': ) ti now before the House does not go to the full extent of ej, w ishes. I would have these laws entirely done away tn, and the Press entirely free. But, Sir, lam willing, if Islit,,Yiecornproinise could be made, to take any part of the good Pa tarl could get. I, however, would prefer to see news- Zirs without any stamp, and a small postage charged upon ncir transmission into the country. I give this advice most er elY • and if upon a late occ as i on I exressemysel w armly, in speaking of my Hon. Friends below me, it that because I was most anxious to drive them forward (Lau course which I considered would be for their good.— se, au e qhter. ) I speak strongly, because I know that I air. 0 ; - eri a4 ing on behalf of the millions of my fellow-country irr-(Lou'a cheers.) Lie question having been put by the SPEAKER, 4ihe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and pi,‘indoubtedly, Sir, Ido not rise for the purpose of corn iii'trt!ig of the motion of my Hon. Friend, or of the speeches which the question has been brought forward, but for the :tteir,lpaotejoellosf trheetyurning thanks to my Hon. Friends for the oh have made on our behalf, and for the • calm ,eent.temperate mode in which they have approached the sub ' Ido not complain of the motion itself, although I will 1 . 1 7 e, _ the liberty of praying the House not at the present mo- L et ,' s to agree to it. do not complain of the subject having 4111 _,n brought forward—it is fitting that it should be discussed, errthat upon the principle which was opened by my i'-111!•ale Friend opposite (Mr. Bulwer.)—(Hear.) It is l:etaysing to me also that it has now been brought forward, o ti a t t! e upon this subject I have been much misrepresented. seh ee fi e,one hand, it has been said that I have broken pledges on `,',n I have given for the total repeal of these duties, while, f or l in t. e other hand, I have been represented as being a stickler et o , ) ",cil, and totally opposed to their repeal. I will not now the It e, justify myself, but I will say before this House, that itno,aceusation is as false as the other. Sir, I consider that of re a , l : °lle of the greatest of all misrepresentations in point pr e . •y_l, and of mistakes in point of fact, to say that the tax....(,at? be kept up and maintained by the aid of a heavy elai l i os ' - 'heers.) Ido not think, Sir, that sound political ate 1-y the aid of a Stamp Duty,— liar. al ...,noPri latmilto ers having at this molted s:dititiked (4:tah rather loud while sleeping on oim eI ibe l:Venthes.) Sir, it is not through the agency of a staeqi iliat the character of the Press is to he maintaihed, but upon the character of the peepl.'t tiiittillgst *kohl it circulated. If you have a mertkl l tntollit'aid; and bniiihtebed people, then you will also fi t\•r a e'rtis, ilie 6ailie kl,hareetBr, whether with or *ithcet a §labip, With these opinions, Ido not de fend thlli to.k Upon the ground of its being. a Protection to morals, or that by its means sound tiolitial krioOliA. 4 , - e is: con veyed to the people. In t'q opinion, it has no relation to these objects. or another. Upon a late occasion I did net. 'Speak of the unstamped Press, because I did not then think it would have been fair; but when we are dealing with the argument whirl) PilptiO?:iCtl that trle Arcs;, it free, would be of e and more moral nature than at pre sent, I Wish to call the attention of the House in; of the public to the character of the unstamped Press. i will r , ad thz evidence given upon that pZ;int—the character of the unstarved ere—before a Committee of this House by ht.•rd brougham, who, upon this subject is ro fti6il atittio rity.—( The Right Hon. Gentlertatt read a passage from Lord Brougham's evitittlet, In which that Noble and Learned Lord expretted hims e lf st rong ly w i t h res p ec t to the rib a ld ry , vindictiveness, and malignity of the unstamped Press.) My object, Sir, in reading this passage is td thdtk , tti these *lib think that publicati on s f ree ft-eiti duty Will beat' tt higher cha racter than at present, that the supporters of the tax have some ground Upon which to go. I, however, say that it is no sufficient argument against the claims of these *hp aflt file its reduction—upon grounds of metal aril ediidil political know ledge—for the peeple tde not think that the high stamp d u ty can be defendcd.=-.(l:pud cheers.) I will take a more frank stand==-.I ttated when the subject was under discus sion on a former occasion, and I now repeat it without hesitation, and I think it will justify me in the manner in which I deal with the question, Sir, I deal with it as a question of Revenue alone. As a matter of Revenue alone, I deal with this tax, its I would with a duty upon wine or other article. lam told, or may be told, that there would be ample remuneration to the Revenue by the change, but I am not now in a condition which enables me to try any experiments. If I had a surplus that I might deal with, this would be one of the very first taxes. For I may say, and Ido assure the House, that this subject has been for some tim e occu pyi ng th e u t mos t attention of the Government. But, Sir, with a surplus pared down, as I explained to the House on a former day, I must be in difficulties as I am now situated, and I can under no circumstances deal with this tax unless I had a much larger surplus than my calculations give me, and no prudent Minister could do so. No man can say that I am in a condition for trying experiments, and therefore I call upon the House to stand by me, and not put the finances of the country in a state of disorder and disarrangement. Sir, let the House consider : I was engaged in raising a large loan only a short time ago ; what would prudent men think of - me, after coming under the obligations to the public creditor, were I now to deal with this tax as if I were in possession of a large surplus? I feel that lam acting prudently, and, therefore, I put it to the Hon. Member for Lincoln not to press his motion on the present occasion. Now then, Sir, I will deal with the pro position of my Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex. I, Sir, am not prepared to propose to Parliament the entire abo lition of this duty. It yields 450,0001., and I cannot see how we can do without it ; nor can I foresee any circumstances which induces me to hope for such a state of things, as to enable me to give up so much. Though I do consider the present amount of duty upon newspapers indefensible, still, Sir, I must say that if I had such a sum to spare, there are other claims for the relief of taxation ; and if I could spare 450,0001., I think I could do more for the benefit of the country, than in applying it to the abolition of this tax. Then, Sir, comes the proposition of a postage duty, as made by my Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume.) In the first place, that proposition, if carried into effect, would act most unjustly between the town and country. It would act most unjustly, for if there were parts where political know ledge ought to go cheap and free, it is the country places—in towns there is always a system of improvement going on ; but in the country places, I am sorry to say, there is much of ig norance yet to be dispelled. Why, Sir, where was it that we got our support on the claims of the Roman Catholics, but from the towns ?—in the country places we were opposed most strenuously, because of the great ignorance there prevailing, and this proposition of a postage duty would throw all the burdens and difficulties upon those for whom it was most desirable to take off the tax. But, Sir, I have one argument more—it, in my opinion, would be entirely and ut terly impracticable, because we know, that now, when news- papers pass free through the Post-office, where there is a cer tainty of the delivery, we know that even now a great portion of the papers, both morning and evening, are transmitted by coach. Then surely it must be clear to the House that it is utterly false to say that a postage duty would ever make up for the tax, and that the Revenue would not suffer. In some parts of America there is no other conveyance but the mails—. in this country the case was different ; and now when you find that the parties are willing to pay for the transmission by coach, it must be evident that the plan of a postage duty is imprac ticable.—( Hear, hear, hear.) If you impose such a postage duty, you must pass a Bill making it highly penal on any one sending any paper otherwise than by the post—you must give the right of search, with all its attendant train of evils, which this House will pause before introducing. Now, Sir, as to the question of the amount of reduction. If it was to be done, the measure must be a bold one—in order to be of any essen tial benefit to the community the measure must be a bold one ; but at this moment 1 am not prepared either to accede or pro. pose such a one. Now, Sir, I have expressed myself openly, and I trust satisfactorily—l am also obli g ed to say that lam not prepared to take this step upon another ground. We must pass some measure for the protection of the Press itself— there ought in my opinion to be something in the nature of a copyright ; we know that some such law is necessary. Unless there was some protection afforded there would be a du plicate paper published an hour after the original one, thus taking all the benefit of its labour and expense, and in point of fact getting all they have without one farthing expense. This point ought not to be overlooked. lam not afraid of the spread of political knowledge ; I am not one of those who think the constitution of England is likely to be endangered by the freest possible circulation of information. On the con trary, the more the population is informed, the more acurately they are taught to weigh and consult the deliberations of Statesmen ; and the more rapidly and extensively they are made acquainted with the obligations to which the laws subject them, the more secure will be the cause of universal reform, and the more certain its success.—(Loud cheers.) Though I do net think it is quite accurate to designate these duties as entirely taxes on knowledge, yet I fear they have imposed a very great check indeed on the progression of it.—( Hear.) I believe that the taste of the people will lead them to prefer wholesome publications, though it is not at all unlikely that much poison will be diffused by persons who are degraded enough to manufacture it. I concur most cordially with my Hon. Friend, and would say with him—Let us do things ho nestly and in earnest.—( Hear.) If we fix a stamp on news papers, those who pay the duty ought to be protected by the laws. That is what I ask for, protection for the fair trader.— ( Hear, hear.) I thank the House for the patience it has be stowed upon me. My Hon. Friend and Ido not differ on the principle of the question, our only difference is on the modes operandi. We differ only on the grounds of proceeding to attain the object, and first I say,—" We can't afford it."—(Laughter.) Next, we have not time this session to accompany it with such measures as would be absolutely requisite. lam perfectly persuaded that these declarations will obtain for me great unpopularity, but I admit most une quivocally that I agree with the principle ; but I contend that we must take time to weigh equally the claims of eve-y class of the community, and that we must act in a manner consistent with the justice of legislation. —( Hear, hear. ) _ _ • Mr. C. BUL LER—I am sure if the Right Hon. Gentle man should chtain any unpopularity, it will not be for the manner in which he has treated this question, though I am sorry that he does not go further. If, at any other time, be has made any unpopular observations, he has now shown him self decided upon the justness of the principle, and he has thrown aside all the odious arguments by which these taxes have been supported in past times. He has admitted them to be bad, and he has only asked for time and due consideration to be enabled to remit them. But I am not convinced that he might not safely have repealed them this year.— ( Hear, hear.) It is said they produce 400,000/., or 500,0001., and that if they were taken off, the revenue would be deprived of 350,000/., because there is a surplus of only 200,000/. But if he had reduced the stamp duty to two , pence, probably there might be a deficiency of 100,0001., which, if it were the case, I am sure could be very easily made up by a duty on salmon or any other luxury.—( Hear, and laughter. ) It has been shown that these taxes do not cause an increase of publication. This may be seen in the circulation of the Penny Magazine and other cheap publications.—( Hear.) I am acquainted with the circumstances of another part of the public Press, the circulation of which is very large, I mean the Sunday papers. The weekly papers generally sell for 7d., but they are published only once in six days, so that in fact the consumers of these papers only pay 7d. in six days, while those who purchase the other papers pay six times 7d. in six days. It appears that the weekly papers circulate 20 millions per annum, and that the circulation of the daily Press is but 15 millions a year. (The Honourable Member here went into a calculation, the particular figures of which, owing to the conversation which prevailed in the House, were not perfectly heard in the gallery ; but the result went to show that the readers of the weekly papers were eight times as many as those of the daily papers.) I say then, that it' you will go into these calculations you will find it will give a large majority of readers to each weekly paper, and this ought to satisfy the Chancellor of the Ex chequer that the revenue would not suffer by such a reduction, because each of these weekly readers would become daily purchasers, and there would be a considerable increase of the old daily readers. The only question for the Chancellor of the Exchequer is,—is not a large portion of the public Press injured by the great extent of smuggling? If we could get a fair account of the number of unstamped newspapers, we should find that they exceed by thousands the stamped newspapers, and we should see that the revenue is actually suffering, and that the morals of the com munity are suffering too, by the retention of this tax under the present system. Some of the better kind of the weekly papers have suffered to a great extent. I shall perhaps get no great popularity for this, but I think a good and rational law of libel ought to be established, which would secure its freedom as well as its purity from slander, and if we take off the duty, we should not think of doing so without putting this check over it. This, too, must either do harm or good, and if it does not do good it must do excessive harm, for it deprives men of the media of knowing the laws, which they are called on to obey, and under which they may be convicted of unconscious crimes. With these laws the people cannot be acquainted, while we prevent the use of the only means of affbrding them this very necessary information. The Right Honourable (32ntleann has admitted that the reorle 'Pia AIN, LONDON, SA are deprived of political knowledge, and the truth is that that knowledge i 5 not Only mcst useful,. but indispensabl e , and we see this lir thin sucCOSs Of piiblieatidtm ishleh give them this knowledge, though thiperfectly, and sometimes of a very bad kind. I congratulate the House on the support of thiS questiOn, fot it is now proved that this House has no de sii'e to prevent the spftitd df political knowledge, and that it is not oppoSed to flit great moral forte if rightly and correctly uod ; and that thC Miflisttifg dad flitsittert 14 , 1t0 pchi , ..ved the glorious Reform Act, only wait the fah' opportunity to gke a fresh impetus to the diffusion of political knowledge and sa lutary information —( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman sat down amid cries of " Ouestion." He was impatiently heard by thh 4pd cotOequently but imperfectly in the Gallery. Mr. GIWTr, fast ittilw ieridiketi cries question," and said,-1 can assure the House that It is il intention to ttil ' a very ;tort time; but I think after the speech of th e Ri g ht Hon. the Charteeiti,7 of the Exchequer, to whieli I hat lifttned with ranch pleasure, I think alidwett to tav It eiindell a dl lhh itiotg enlightened and gene roils spirit than has been known to be displayed h toy Member of any Executive Government before.—( Hear, hear.) But I must also say, that after having heard pointed out in the rilbst cleat; mariner, aiid .40 riftin tifofe forcibly than I can do, tilt mischievous conseqttenceS of retaining that; tr!"_.nt, .n much stre Iger season than that founded on mere financial cdtiSideratienS is necessary to justify their continuance I think the Right Hon. derider/tan seemed to admit in his financial statement ; that there iktit strung pfbbabilify that the Fedlictioit of this hi fftm 4d, It Id: itottld lid attended with no loss to the revenue; in my opinion them Would be such an increase of circulation as would by the paper duty alone make up for any loss the revenue might suffer by reducing the duty. That it my firm conviction,—(Cheers.) Now, Sir, I would take the liberty of submitting to the flight Hon, Gentleman's consideration, whether the liberal tone he has taken will not tend to increase the objections to this tax ?—( Cheers.) I really would wish to impress upon him how he, of all others, can depend upon the continuation of this tax, of which he has so ably pointed out the mischief, unless it can be shown to be unquestionably necessary to our public credit.—(Cheers.) That the Right Hon. Gentleman has fallen very far short of that, I think nobody will deny.—(Hear, hear.) Now Sir, with reference to the additional protection to the fair trader, I must be allowed to remind the Right Hon. Gentle man that reductions, in my opinion, fair reductions, would be the greatest protection to the fair trader.—( Cheers.) Now, Sir, with regard to the Right Hon. Gentleman's idea as to copy-right, I fully approve of it ; but it seems to me the matter is so simple that a few lines in an Act of Parliament would be quite sufficient for all practical purposes. I will refrain from troubling the House at greater length than by expressing the great interest I have and feel in this impor tant question—(Cheers)—and the strong feeling, the grow ing feeling there is upon this subject throughout all the great towns of this country. There is that, .Sir, going on upon this sub ject of which the Right Hon. Gentleman does not seem sensible, or he would not decline to take off this tax.--( Cheers.) Although I should be sorry to put the Government to any in convenience, yet in my opinion, if there are no other or better grounds for retaining this tax than those stated by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, it ought to be taken off —( Cheers. ) I say once more, the Right Hon. Gentleman has not made out any ground for retaining this tax, and therefore it is that I regret the resolution to which he has come.--( Cheers.) Mr. BUCKINGHAM—This tax, in my opinion, does not bear any proportion to the Flee of the article, and I would venture, therefore, to suggest, that if this tax was taken off newspapers, and one of a penny or less put on, it would so increase the circulation, that a greater revenue would be ac quired by it. If also free transmission was given to news papers to all parts of the country, the revenue, in my opinion, would be increased. I think, on the whole, there ought to be a graduated duty relative to newspapers.—( Cheers.) Mr. WARBURTON—Sir, if there was any time in which I should feel it to be my duty to oppose the Government it would be the present. After the declaration that has been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman on two most important subjects, first, the declaration with respect to the internal po litics of the country; and secondly, the declaration that he has made with respect to the duties or, newspapers, nothing can be more satisfactory than the declaration the Right HOll. Gentleman made, when he stated that the present high duty on newspapers could neither be defended on principle or prac tice.—( Cheers.) What greater condemnation of the exist ing system can be pronounced than such a declaration coming from such an authority. I cannot find out.—( Cheers.) The case of low duties may be compared to the state of things which existed before the invention of printing, and printing it self.—(Cheers.) All the arguments in the defence of high duties, all the arguments for the purpose of restricting the circulation of newspapers has been grappled with, and therefore it will be unnecessary for me to say anything further upon it. Now, if I decline, on account of the declarations of the Go vernment, to go along with them, I must say on account of the situation in which we are placed after this declaration, and after what we know to be the state of the difficulty in collect ing the revenue on newspapers, recollecting what that difficulty is, I must say there never was an occasion on which I felt more inclined than the present to dispute the grounds taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers.) It is notorious that without a system of persecution and inquisition, which will no longer be borne—( Great cheering) —you cannot continue the tax.—( Cheers.) In my opinion, it will be utterly impossible to continue it six months longer after the condemnation that has been given to it by the Right Hon. Gentleman.—( Cheers.) If you continue this law for another six months, in what state will you leave the country, the people longing for a free communication, and yet the seizing of presses belonging to newspapers being persevered in ? (Cheers.) Under such circumstances, is it possible, I ask, for the Government to carry on the duty much longer ? (Cheers.) The truth is, the course that had been adopted by Government bad lcd the public to doubt the sincerity of their intentions, and their wishes and desires with respect to this tax.—( Cheers.) The declarations that have been made on this subject, were also made several years ago. My Hon. Friend, the Member for Middlesex, knows that we once waited on the Chancellor of the Exchequer three or four years ago, and we had then the assurance that it was only an account of the then state of politics, the Chancellor of the Exchequer declared to us that he did not bring in a Bill to repeal these duties.—(Cheers.) Now, we have been waiting for a liberal Government to carry these intentions into effect, from that time until the present moment, and what have we got now?— (Cheers.) Why, the declaration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that they persevered in their former intention to keep on the duty on newspapers.—(Cheers.) It will probably be observed, that it is only with respect to the question of finance that the duty has been kept on. I think upon that question also, the decision which the Chancellor of the Exche quer has come to, is not the right one.—(Cheers.) Look to the seizures that have taker, place. Let the Chancellor of the Exchequer compare the state of his receipts from this tax and the dissatisfaction that prevails, and I think he will find that tic will have great difficulty in maintaining those receipts as long as that dissatisfaction prevails.—(Cheers.) I have no hesitation in saying he will not be able to maintain them.—_ ( Cheers.) Now, Sir, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has talked of taking off the duty of one particular class ; I hate the name of taking off the duty on particular classes. —( Cheers.) The object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in my opinion, ought to be to take off those taxes that will give relief to all classes—(Cheers) —and I should like to know where that class is to be found that does not read news- papers ?—( Cheers.) Now I fully agree that something ought to be done for the protection of copyright ; but I do believe that an hour's conversation with the editors and proprietors of two or three newspapers by the Solicitor to the Treasury would enable him to draw such a clause as would be abundantly sufficient to answer all the purposes required.—( Cheers.) I looked, Sir, with alarm, when the right Hon. Gentleman talked of greater powers, for I cannot think that greater powers are nccossary.—( Cheers.) And why do I say so ? Because I am persuaded if a proper duty was placed on newspapers, much less power than the Government has at present would -enforce their payment.—( Cheers.) Greater powers were not found necessary when the tax was moderate, and I firmly believe the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in what he has done, has very much miscalculated, and that he will find that out ere long. Sir, in conclusion I must say that I shall be inclined, whatever the lion. Mover may think right to do, to go alonr , with him. If he divides, I shall divide with him— (Cheers)—and if he thinks proper to defer the question, I shall acquiesce in the propriety of the adoption of that course.—(Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL—Sir, I must protest, in the first place, against the opinion given by the Right Hon. Gentle man the Chancellor of the Exchequer as being correct with respect to the whole of the unstamped Press ; for there arc, I must say, many most meritorious exceptions. I have had many persons with me on the subject of the recent seizures that have taken place—they came to me very angry, but they left me very calm ; for I told them that the present state of things could not long exist.—( Cheering.) After all that has been admitted upon the subject, the only point in my mind that should be really pressed upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer is the reasonableness of trying the experiment. Let him look to the papers in Ireland, and see if they were not over-taxed.—( Cheers.) What was the whole amount of the Stamp duty in that country, in which there was no less than eightmillions of persons? It was only 8,0001. a-year. Why was it so small ? Because the Stamp duty was so heavy— ( Cheers)—and there were so few persons who purchased news papers in consequence of it.—( Cheers.) The advertisement duty is little or nothing, but that would be greatly enhanced if the Stamp duty was so small as to increase the circulation. I think, therefore, you have given ground for pressing this experiment.—(Cheers.) Now I cannot help congra tulating the House and the country upon the sentiments which have this night been expressed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the fullest reliance might be placed on the principle that actuated the Government to put the Press on the freest form.—(Cheers.) What an admirable contrast does this form with the Government of a neighbouring country? —( Cheers.) There are in this country no infernal machines —(Great cheering)—and why are there not? Because no man will venture here to persecute the Press even in obe dience to the law—such is the force of public opinion.— ( Continued cheering.) One regrets to see that country in the state in which it now is.—( Cheers.) How is it to be ac counted for? Why, by stifling public discussions and putting down the freedom of thought.—( Continued cheering.) A traitor Ministry and a King forgetful of the principles that bad placed him on his throne, has caused all this.—( Great cheering.) I have now to submit to my Hon. Friend, who has brought forward this motion, whether the im died pledge that has been given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer is not in effect a pledge for the ultimate reduction of the tax. — (Cheers.) Three or four months cannot elapsl before we meet again, and I am sure my friend, when he s2es that Par liament, cannot meet for a week without having this mea sure brought forward. I think he will see the p ro priety of postponing his rrasont motion tin the first Supply day in UEDA Y, AUGUST the next Session, When I have no hesitation in saying it will meet with no opposition._( Ch eers .) Mr. WA L L ACE—I am sure that what has passed to night will give universal satisf ac ti on t o th e co untry. I think, however, that every facility ought to be given to the circula tion of newspapers through the means of the Post-office. A large addition to the revenue might be afforded by a better system of management at the Post-office—( Cheers)—and any defalcation made good, leaving also a large sinking fund by the adoption of that course.—( Cheers. ) Mr. BAINE S—Sir, I feel anxious to make a few observa tions on this important subject. I entirely approve of the motion made by my Honourable Friend. I think with him, that there should be a reduction, not of the whole, but the greater part, of the tax.—(Great cheering.) I am persuaded that if the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer will adopt this resolution, and I infer from his observations that he will ultimately adopt it—(Cheers) —he need not apprehend that the Revenue will suffer from its aaop.-n.—( Hear, hear.) I am persuaded that there are means b y great advantages may be derived from the reclation,—( Cheers. ) But there is one subject which has not been attended Vic. and wine:: I feel is entitled to as much observation as the reduCtiott of the na,: upon newspapers, and that is the reduction of the Ipon 1,:.7 paper itself. --(Hear, hear.) By the reduction of the diay tapca: paper, you will glat , advantages to all classes of sociefy;; wh'erea,a, by the reduction ni' the duty upon newspapers, you gifts ad vantages to one class only. Ihe readers, and I need not say that they arc a great many, of hooka', will all receive ad vantages by the reduction of the duty on paper. I hope the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he takes this sub ject lute eatilWeration, will not lose sight of what, in my opinion, is of very great importance—the reduction of the duty upon paper. With respect to the observations that have been made upon the propriety of imposing a postage duty, I conceive that that would be tin extremely prejudi cial measure. It would in my opinion operate to withhold information from those persons who stand most in want of it. —( Hear, hear.) It is also objectionable in another way. Many faults would be found with the duty upon postage by those wto now make no objections to paying the full ex pense of a newspaper, Many would object to pay postage who have no objection f 6 pa a duty upon the article from which they derive benefit, and for which they receive value. I do think that this view of the asubject with respect to post age ought not to be lost sight of. If there shall be a duty of one penny upon postage,. all those who now defraud the revenue by selling and purchasing unstamped papers will con trive to send and receive their papers by other means than through the Pert Office; they will avail themselves of those opportuni ties to contintie these frauds upon the revenue.—( Hear, bear. ) It will operate very much in this way, also that it will have the effect of continuing a practice of doing injustice to the revenue, and at the same time accustoming people to those habits which it was most desirable should never prevail.—(Hear, hear.) I feel perfectly convinced that if the Chancellor of the Exche quer shall ultimately determine upon the adoption of this mea sure, he will not find the revenue suffer.—( Loud cheers.) He certainly will not find it aldrer to any great extent. I, myself, most anxiously desire that the menue should not suffer, but even under the circumstances in which we are placed, I do not feel any doubt but that the Right Hon. Gentleman would find himself in a situation of perfect security, although he should determine to make the reduction this y ear. --( Loud cries of " Hear.") I can concei ve that consicerahle diinculties may stand in the way of making the reduction at the present moment : and among the rest the reduction in the duty ought to be made to as to give protection to the fair trader ; and I apprehend that we coold not find sufficient time during the present Session to enact stielt laws as would give that neces sary protection. With respect to the conduct of the pro prietors of Newspapers, though they erne been called mono polists, and stigmatised in the course of this debate, their con duct I am persuaded, when fairly seen, will be thought per fectly reasonable. They have gone to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and said to him " We do not ask you whether you will augment or diminish the duty, all we ask is that you will place us upon a footing of perfect equality with all other persons in the same trade ; if other persons publish news papers on unstamped paper, all we ask is to enjoy the same privileges ; but if, on the contrary, we are placed un der the necessity of publishing on stamped paper, we require that all other persons shall be compelled to the performance of the same duty."—( Hear, hear.) I consider that claim to be perfectly reasonable, and such as the publishers of newspapers have a right to make. The Right Gen tleman has expressed his intention to give security to copy right (so we understood )—the giving such security I consider to be a wise system of legislation, and such as I have no doubt, if adopted, will be found perfectly satisfactory to all those who are engaged in conducting the public Press, and will be found alike conducive to the interests and the wishes of the public at large ; and will inspire them with a lively interest in the support of that Government of which the Right Hon. Gentleman forms a part.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. ROBINSON—I will not detain the House with more than a few observations upon this very important question. I believe that every gentleman who has spoken has decidedly advocated some alteration in the Stamp Du ties.—( Hear, hear.) I can assure the House that there is a strong feeling upon this subject amongst my constituency, and the most respectable and influential portion of them de cidedly advocate an alteration of the duties upon newspapers, and I have during the present session presented petitions from them, praying for its repeal. I wish to ask the Noble Lord opposite ( Russell), as I do not see the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place— Oh, I beg the Right Honourable Gentleman's pardon—l did not observe him—l wish to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman whether, after the very strong expressions lie has himself used this night upon this subject, his Majesty's Ministers can hope to maintain these duties in their present state ?—( Loud cheering.) The question is in fact disposed of---( Hear hear) —and I am very glad to observe the general concurrence of opinion on the part of those who usually support the present Government. And I hope that after the general expression of the feeling of all sides of the House, that the Hon. Member for Lincoln will not press his resolution.—( Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) has abandoned the tax upon principle, and I hope, therefore, the Hon. Member will not press the House to a division.— (Hear, hear.) I merely rose to express my own opinion, and to ask this plain question—whether after the declared opinion, openly given in the face of the public, upon the principle of this tax, his Majesty's Government have determined upon the maintenance of this tax upon only one ground, that of finance—a ground which I consider to be wholly untenable ? Can it be said that in this great country_ where we have a revenue of fifty millions—after the House of Commons with one opinion has pronounced this a most ob jectionable tax, that it is yet to be maintained upon the prin ciple of revenue alone ? I will not further occupy the time of the House.—( Loud cries of " Hear.") The cnly question is in what way this tax may be most advantageously altered.- -( Cheers.) I will not enter into the subject whether or not a substitute should be adopted in lieu of the whole or of a por tion of it ; but I am most decidedly of opinion that if his Majesty's Government will direct its attention during the re cess to some alteration of this tax, they will be only acting in consonance with the public voice. I will only beg leave to add, on the part of the trading community, that if in addition to some remission of the stamp duty, there was a reduction of the advertisement duty also, it would yield still more satisfaction. I do not blame the Chancellor of the Exchequer for this tax, but I tell him, on the part of the trading community, that upon a remission of this tax, he might impose a more gene ral impost, and the remission of the duty upon advertisements would enable the trading part of the community to avail themselves of these sources of profit. Great advantages would be conferred on the trading community, and I sin cerely believe that the public revenue would not sustain any material loss. If the revenue sustained some loss by the change of taxation, the House of Commons, I am sure, will never consent to see a Chancellor of the Exchequer placed in difficulties from the necessity of raising some slight taxes. ( Hear, hear. ) In the present duties there must be some change.-_( Loud cheers. ) Mr. NV AK L E Y.—Sir, it rests with the Hon. Member who has made the motion, whether we shall any longer continue to have stamp duties or not. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, has invited the House to vote. He has said that this is not a tax that can be defended upon principle, and he says also that it is inexpedient in practice ; and what, I ask, could a Chancellor of the Exchequer say more ?—( Cheers.) He has said that this tax could not be recommended; that in ,every sense of the word it is injurious to the morals of the country; and after this declaration I consider that this House, deserted as it is by the Conservatives- (Great laughter—the Opposition Benches were almost empty) —will not do its duty if it does not press this motion.—( Cheers.) I am most anxious to give the present Ministry all the sup port it is in my power to give them, because I believe that they are sincerely desirous of benefitting the best interests of the country.—(Loud cheers.) But anxious as lam to support them, my anxiety arises from a desire to see every clog removed from th e v e hi c l es th a t conve y p o liti ca l infor mation to the people. The people have petitioned in thou sands and tens of thousands for the repeal of this tax. If the public only knew the benefit they would derive from that repeal, ten thousand more would petition for its repeal. —( Hear.) I sent to Somerset-House to know exactly what was to be done before a man could publish a newspaper, and the information I received, was to the following effect :—lf it is a weekly paper, there must be given in the names, resi dences, and occupations, of two responsible sureties to secure the payment of the duty, to the amount of 5001., and if a daily paper, to the amount of 1,000/. Are not these clogs? —( Cheers.) Further, there must be names, residences, and occupations, of two more, as a security against the publica tion of blasphemous or seditious libels, to the amount of 3001. Thus the Press is clogged in every way. The public can only derive information in large towns. In small towns and rural villages, th e y were in a state of utter political darkness, and yet the art of printing has been in our possession for four hundred years. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has re fused to give any distinct pledge for the reduction of this tax next Session, and he has alluded to the reductions already made to the amount of forty millions ; and yet the Chancellor of the Exchequer thinks that the public will derive a benefit from the reduction of the Stamp Duties. How ? Why is it that this discovery has never been made before ?—( Cheers.) Because it was only lately they had applied to it the pressure in that House and out of it.—( Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) I do not allude to the present Chancellor of the Exchequer ; because I believe he was always persuaded of the evils of the existence of this tax, and anxious to relieve his mind from the disagreeable necessity of continuing it.—( Laughter. ) It was admitted on all hands that it was an odious tax, it pressed upon the country, and rendered the viimle people subject to tyranny and despotism. If the Right Hoe. Gen tleman does not like this motion—if he will not be persuaded to reduce this tax—would he like to put the tax up to a pOlic Laughter and cheers.) If the reduction , 011;es MMIEMMI place, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer will put the tax up to a public auction, the subscription lists will be filled in less than four hours, and I am satisfied that the con tractor will make a most excellent bargain who takes the tax at one penny.—( Great cheering.) There is not a man in this House who does not believe that if the tax was reduced to one penny, the circulation will not be more than trebled. —(Cheers.) Is there any man here who entertains a contrary opinion" In country towns at present the people have no news papers. A newspaper goes down occasionally, but they have no such thing as a printing establishment where a newspaper was published. Only take off this tax, and we will soon have established in all small towns a newspaper.—(Hear, hear.) There would not be a town with 3,000 inhabitants which will not have one or two newspapers, and the consequence will be a great increase of the revenue from the paper duty, which will in my opinion make up for any diminution that will arise from the reduction of the stamp duty.—( Hear, hear.) I, therefore, hope, that my Honourable Friend the Member for Lincoln will press his motion, unless the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, gives a most distinct pledge that the tax shall come off in the next session.—( Loud cheers.) The public, if we bring for wa,-,..1 such motions as this, and do not press them, will con -2i4„ thorn as so many farces. They will say these motions • h t i ilowii . rd to serve personal oi• individual purposes, pu bii 4 I ,:erests . are . entirely sacrificed.—_( Cheers.) a a t r i e d fe d o le Og this night will satisfy the people that this occasion —(Great cheering) I hope that our cendtici pu . blic . interests, and not we have no such vices 011 amt= this principle in and that we propose to look to the Douse—and when to our own. Sir, lam prepared to s,; . I feel that I this House—l have advocated it out of th:.` I can more I see any means of serving the public interes:_s , ought to make use of it. I know no way in which, effectually serve the public interests, than by suppthling the present motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir. I am anxious to offer a few words in explanation. The Hon. Gentleman who has just sat down has argued as if I had invited the House to take the course he has stated. Sir, I stated that I never would consent to take this course ; that I would never be responsible for taking it, because I consider it inconsistent at the present moment with the financial state of the country. I must say that it is not very generous in the Hon. Gentleman to take advantage of my frank admis sions.—( Loud cheering. ) Mr; E. L. B ULWER —I consider that the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) has in his speech pledged himself—l have a right to use that expression —to the repeal of the Stamp duty.—(Great cheering.) I consider that he has pledged himself in that speech as strongly as any man can pledge himself.—( Con tinued cheering.) I believe that this duty cannot last.— (Cheers.) I believe that it will be repealed in the next ses sion.—( Renewed cheering.) The only question remaining now is one of delay.—( Hear, hear.) If I press this question to a division at this moment, I am not sure that I shall carry it, and if I do carry it,it will he with great moral disadvantages. In the first place, it will weaken the Government at a inoment when it ought to have collected round it its >vhole strength.—(Tremendous cheering, in which the voice of Mr. O'Connell was eminently distinguished.) In the next place it will expose us to divisions when we ought most to be united.—(Renewed cheering, which lasted some time.) And in the third place we will render ourselves liable to the accusation of acting against his Majesty's Government, at a time when I sincerely believe they are in possession of the national confidence.—( Tremendous cheering.) Under all these circumstances I feel that on this, as on similar questions, our object will be best attained—the Government acknow ledging the principle and asking only time and opportunity to carry it into effect. With these views, and feeling that no personal motive can attach to myself, I feel that I should not stand well with the country if I pressed my motion to a divi sion. —(Great cheering. ) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The Hon. gentleman is perfectly entitled to consider that I have pledged myself to the principle of this tax which I never can support, but if he means to say that I have pledged myself, under all imaginable circumstances to repeal this tax next session, I must say that I have given, and am prepared to give, no such pledge. I may have the same difficulties to contend with—the financial arrangements of the country may be exactly the same —and in that case I shall be under the necessity of continuing this tax. I have stated as distinctly as I could do what my opinions were upon this subject, and from those there shall be no departure, or compromise.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. E. BULWER—I consider the Right Hon. gentleman to pledge him to the repeal of those taxes, if the Revenue can bear it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--Aye, supposing the revenue can bear it.—(Cheers.) But I must say at the same time that this is a different state of the question to what it was at first. Mr. HUME—I am of opinion, after what has been stated, that even if the finances of the country remain the same, the Right lion. Gentleman is bound to find a substitute for this tax.--( Loud cheers.) I consider that he is called upon, after the general expression of the opinion of the House, so to do. I will only add that if I had had any idea that Ole Hon. Gen tleman, the Member for Lincoln, was pledged not to press the motion to a division, I would never have seconded if cheering.) Mr H. BUL W ER—My Hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln never stated that he was pledged not to divide—he only stated that i,c did not think it adviseable, under the pre sent circumstances, to divide the House. When the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer has ad mitted the principle of the m‘.•tion, I do not see how my Hon. Friend could divide the House.— ( Great cheering.) The motion was then withdraws. AIR. BUCKINGHAM'S CJ AIM. On the motion of Mr. TULK, the adjourned debate on Mr. Buckingham's Claim was resumed; and the Hon. Gen tleman addressed the House in support of the motion. Sir J. HOBHOUSE regretted that the Hon. Member for Sheffield was present in the House during the discussion of a question involvinr , his own pecuniary claims. The claim for compensation had twice been brought before the Court o f Pro prietors, and had been rejected; and the subject, from 1835 to 1834. had not been taken up. A committee had been granted at the latter period, and the House was now called upon to tn. - - the people of India to the amount of 40,000/. If the vote was agreed to, neither the Court of Directors nor the Court of Proprietors would lose one shilling, as the interest of the Company was guaranteed by Act of Parliament. He denied that Parliament had the right to levy a fine on the territory of India for such a purpose, and in such a case as that now before the House If there was any just ground of interference he would not have opposed the motion. 1 - 13 wished to know why the Bill had been postponed till this period of the session ? Why had it not been brought in before ? He recommended the Hon. Gentleman not to proceed with it. There was no possibility, as far as lie could judge, of his carrying it. He had no case at all. Mr. Buckingham's loss could not be proved—his property could not be assessed—and, he believed, no injustice was complained of. This was not a tribunal to decide such a case. He should most strenuously oppose the motion. The SPEAKER asked whether the consent of the Crown had been given ? Sir J. HOB HOUSE would waive that question. Mr. HUME was surprised at the course taken by the Right Hon. Baronet. Mr. Buckingham suffered great injustice by the arbitrary conduct of the Governor. He was in India on a license, and his newspaper was realizing him a pre& of nearly 8,0001. a year, when he was banished, and it was suppressed. This was for publishing an article objecting to an official ap pointment which the East India Company and the Govern ment themselves sent out an order to cancel. He hoped the House would allow the Bill to go into committee, where some compromise might be effected. Perhaps they could not ascer tain the value within 100/. or even 1,000/., but the Select Committee desired to make some approach to justice. Let them grant 30,0001. or 20,0001., or whatever was thought rea sonable. In the Committee some compromise might be effected. Mr. ROBINSON opposed the motion. Mr. BAI NE S supported the motion. Mr. V. SMITH said, the obvious and only course for the Hon. Gentleman to pursue, if he had been wronged, was that of suing the Governor General for India. \Vith reference to the account of the injury which had been suffered, he would observe that while the Hon. Member for Middlesex had stated it to be the loss of 8.0001. a year; the income derived from his newspaper, Mr. Buckingham himself bad variously stated it at 4,0001., 8,000/., and 8,0001. a year. The law under which that gentleman had been removed was in full force at the time ; and how could they entertain the question whether they ought to compel the Company, who had acted in the dis cret►on vested in them by that law, and thus, under the sanc tion of the Legislature, to make compensation for its effects? Mr. O'CONNEL L contended for the necessity of allowing the Bill to be brought in, and leaving the details of it to the Committee. A prima fade case had been established in the Report of the Select Committee upon the subject. Mr. WALKER supported the motion. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion Against it Majority in favour of the m0ti0n......... —32 The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at two o'clock. 45 BELFAST ELECTION.—Two meetings, composed of the respective friends of Mr. Dunbar and Mr. Tennent, adopted resolutions last Monday at Belfast, to support each of these candidates.—Betfust News Letter. FOR TRAVELLERS AND TOURISTS.—At this sea son, when every one who is able to. do so is seeking for infor mation and recreation in travel, we are induced to recommend to especial notice the following works as excellent guides:- 1. The Traveller's Oracle, by the celebrated Dr. Kitchener, 1 vol. ; a book of general utility-2. The Guide through Switzerland and Italy, in 1 vol., by Mr. Carne, the, distin guished author of the " Letters from the East"-3. The Guide to and from St. Petersburgh through Flanders, along the the Banks of the Rhine, &c., by Dr. Granville, in 2 vols., with no less than 70 plates, including plans of all the routes, towns, &c.-4. A Guide to Italy ; its society, manners, litera ture, &e., by Lady Morgan.; new edition, 3 vols., only 245.- 5. A Guide to France ; or, Narrative of an English Family's Residence for three years in that country, by Henry Best, Esq. ; 1 vol., 10s. 6d.-6. The Guide to the iEgean or Gre cian Islands, by James Emmerson Torment, Esq., M. P. ; 2 vols. ; a work presenting a mine of Oriental information 7. The Guide' to Greece and Albania, by the Rev. 'l'. S. Hughes, 8.D., in 2 vols., with 33 embellishments ; a work which has taken its stand, as an universal. companion for tra vellers, and for those who arc studying the Grecian historians and poets, and in which no scene of any famous event, no re nowned edifice, or magical . piece of sculpture, has been left ucexplcred or unexamined by actual rescardla on tlze spot. DUBLIN. (FROM OUR OWN CORRESFONOF.NIC) Mr. Shaw's eloquent description of the privation; endured by the Irish Protestant clergy has made some impression. His account of the clergyman who was obliged to dig fir his field. fo7 the support of his family has moved, as indeed it is' calcu lated to move, the compassion of many. But the true infe re.ice from that story is . fin. the House of Lords. Upon that di jnified assembly it depends whether the clergyman descril.sed so pathetically by Mr. Shaw, and along with him all the otlOr Protestant clergymen of Ireland, are to be condemned to life of servile labour and penury, or not. If they throw out the Bill now before them, the result will infallibly aril inevi tably consign two thousand Protestant clergymen to hopelest beggary. There can be nothing more sure. The only chanc6 of a competent provision for the ministers of the Established Church being ever realised is offei ed in that Bill. If the Lords reject it, the opportunity will never occur again. Upon them, therefore, and upou their heads, be the consequences of' whatever decision they may form. What can they expeci, if they throw out this measure ? Will they enforce tithes at the point of the bayonet ? The whole armed force of the country, were it all composed of Orangemen, could not do it ; and I need not say that the people and the people's House would never consent to the experiment being tried. One farthing of tithe, or of money in:lieu of tithe, will never be willingly paid in Ireland, if their Lordships meddle with the appropriation clau,:e of that Bill. They may storm and splutter about property aod so forth ; but all their logic will avail them nothing. They will have ruined the Church, as far as external circumstances can ruin it ; and theirs be all the glory of such an exploit. What hope can the Clergy have ? Look to this case of Mr. Shaw's. We boast that all the property of the country is in the hands of Protestants, and we boast of the devoted at tachment of our Protestant gentry to their clergy. Yet I:ere we have them looking on at their beloved instructor toiling for a - Llre subsistence, and earning his miserable mess of potatoes by the sweat of his brow ! Not one of them offers him the slightest relief, or any assistance beyond the cold pity which insults rather' than soothes a generous spirit. Mr. Shaw even confesses that tLqy would not lend him money on the security . of his benefice, except on such usurious terms, that when the million granted by his only real friends, the Whigs, came for his relief, it was seized upon by these iniquitous money changers, and he was left to starve ! This is Mr. Shaw's re presentation of the sympathy afforded the clergy by the Pro testant possessors of all the property in Ireland. Can any other Protestants be more inhuman ? Yes, the Lords may ; and will, if they destroy the only hope that rests between the unfortunate parson and cureless misery. FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE. WHITEHALL, AUGUST 19, 183:. The Kin , * has been pleased to nominate and appoint John Wil liam Birch, Esq. to be Clerk-Assistant of the Parliaments, in the room of William Courtenay, Esq., now Earl of Devon. ST. JAMES'S PALACE, Auc. 19. This day had audience of his Majesty, the Count Sebastiani, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary from the King of She French, to deliver a letter from his Sovereign, to which he wa s introduced by Lord Viscount Palmerston, his Majesty's princi po Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and conducted by Sir Rolter.t Chester, Knt., Master of the Ceremonies. WAR OFFICE, AUGUST 21 ment of Light Dragoons.—Lieutenant J. Rowley to be purchase, 'ice Wedderburn, who retires; Cornet l c O e th pta lf in eg: by N. E. Blacloll to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Rowley ; J. Long, Gent. to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Blackall, August 21. 13th Regiment of Foot--Ensign J. S. Wood, from the 48th Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Stretton, who retires, Aug. 21. 23d Foot—Lieut. T. Good, from the half-pay Unattached, to be First Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Bourchier, promoted, Aug. 20 ; J. S. Capron, Gen: - ., to be Second Lieutenant, by pur chase, Aug. '2l. 36th Foot—Ensign L. Rothe, f:orn the 59th Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Sir J. D. H. lay, August 21. 49th Foot—Gentleman Cadet J. E. Hall, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, by purcnise, vice Wood, promoted in the 13th Regiment of Foot, August 2t, 58th Foot—C. L. Nugent, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Rothe, promoted in the 36th Regiment of Foot, Aug. 21. 79th Foot—Capt. lion. L. Maule, from the 95th Regiment of Foot, to be Captain, vice C. H. Churchill, who retires upon half pay Unattached, Aug. 21. 82d Foot—Lieut. N. G;Tene to be Captain, without purchase, vice Rawson, deceased, Aug. 14 ; Gentleman Cadet H. S. Smith, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, August 21. 84th Foot.—Capt. T. Rowley, from the half-pay unattached, to be Captain, vice J. Cameron, who exchanges, receiving the dif ference, Aug. 21. 92d Foot---Ensign P. M. Petley to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Addison, who retires ; Gentleman Cadet Hon. H. B. W. Cochrane, from the Royal :Military College, to be Ensign, by pur chase, vice Petley, Aug. 21. 95th Foot.—Captain A. Caddy, from the ISt West India Rg i ment, to be Captain, Vice Maule, appointed to the 79th Regiment of Foot, August 21st. Ist. West India Regiment—Captain A. Robertson, from the half pay Unattached, to be Captain, vice Caddy, appointed to the 95th Regiment of Foot, Aug. 21. STAFF, Lieut.-Colonel T. A. Parke, of the Royal Marines, to Le Aide-de-Camp to the King, vice Colonel Lewis, promot4, Au gust 21. MEMORANDUM. _Lieut. T. Cood, of the 23d Regiment, retires from the Service by th. 2 sale of an Ensigney, Aug. 21. Commiss:on signed by the Lord Lieutenant of the County Palatine of Chester. J. S. Barry:. Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant, Aug PI Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the county of Dumbarton. Sir A. Campbe2 l . Bart. to be Vice-Lieutenant, during the ab sence of the Lord Lieutenant from the county, May 11. J. Col. quhoun, the younger, Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant, May 3. Lieut.-Colonel A. Geils, late of the 73d Regiment, to be ditto, May 4. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the West Riding of the County of York, and of the City and County of the City of York. South West Riding Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry.—llon. H. A. Saville to be Captain, vice Trueman, deceased ; .1. Jeffeeck, Gent., to be Cornet, vice T. Jeffcock, promoted, August P.t. BANKRUPTS. JOHN BAILEY, horse hair manufacturer, Elm-street, Gray's lon.-lane, to surrender, August 29, at twelve, and October 2, at d e , n ,.. at the Court of Bankruptcy. Harrison, South-square, Gray's inn ; Whitmore. official assignee, Basinghall-street. ANN LEWIS, milliner, Norfolk-street, Strand, Aug. 29, at half- p;st ten, and Oct. 2, at twelve, at the Court of Bank ruptcy. INet.'olson, Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square ; Cannan, official assignee,. Sambrook -court, Basinghall.street. CHARLES POWELL, wine merchant, St. Mary at Hill, London, Sept. 1, twelve, and Oct. 2, at eleven, at the Court of , Bankruptcy. Ethvt..ra- • official assignee, Pancras -laite ; Turner and ' Hensman, Basing-lane, Cheapside. lIENRY MOLYNCI.:X, linen-draper, Penzance, Cornwall, Aug. 31, at twelve, and 00,`. 2, at eleven, at the Court of Bank- Johnson, official assignee. ruptcy. Sole, Aldermanbu:V WILLIAM WADE, groe, , r, Liverpool, Sept. 2, and Oct. 2, at eleven, at the Clarendon-roolat:.,. Liverpool. Alawdsley, Liver pool ; Addlington and Co., Bedfo.-0.-roNy- TRAVERS ADAMSON, comotission-agent, Liverpool, Sept. 2, and Oct. 2, at two, at. the Clareodun-rooms, Liverpool. Ad lington and Co., Bedford-row ; Radcliffe and Duncan, Liverpool. WILLIAM EDWARD WILLIAMS.C ) N and EDWARD BUCKLEY ONSEY, brewers, Salford, Lane:shire, Sept. 12, and Oct. 2, at one, at the Commissioners'-rooms,lll:nchester. Scott, Lincoln's Inn-fields; Greenalgh, Manchester. HENRY JOHNSTONE, coach-maker, Sheffield, Aug. 31, and Oct. 2, at eleven, at. the Town Hall, Sheffield. Wilson a nd Younge, Sheffield ; Wilson, Southampton-street, Blonmsburv-svare. WILLIAM BLACKLOCK, and GEORGE i'IIOiIPSON, builders, Manchester, Sept. 12, and Oct. 2, at twelve, at tee Corn missioners'-roorns, Manchester. Willis and Co., Tokenhouso--yard ; Mortimer, Manchester DIVIDENDS. At. the Court of Bankruptcy, Bas?ngball-street. 11. Rowed and J. W. Greensbicld, , , tailors. Sept. 14, at 11:1f past eleven—E. Ambrose, warehousenian, King-street, City, Sept. 1.1, at o :le—T. 11. 11. Canty, auctioveer. Pall-mall, Sept. 11, at; one—W. and W. Williams, draper.,,, Bexley, Kent, Sept. 11, at two—J. E. Cracknell, engineer, Acorn-yard, Ltinchouse, Sept. 11. In the Country. R. Yates, innkeeper, Manchester, Sept. 14, at eleven, at the Commissioners'-rooms, l janchester—A. II uddlestone, ht tel-keeper, 'Bilton-with-Ilarrogate, Yorkshire, Sept. 17, at ten, at Renders' Hotel, Knaresborough --.T. C. Stretch, auctioneer, Wo.vester, Oct. 2, at twelve, at the Hopmaxket Inn, Worcester—W. Taylor, 'surgeon, Great Yarmouth, Sept. 12, at eight, at the Angel Great Yarmouth-J. Needham, cotton-spinner, Hargate-tl‘ll, Tideswcll, Derbyshire, Sept. 19, at eleven, at theCommissionerss rooms, Manchester. CERTIFICATES—Setter. 11. R. Harrison, farmer, fuditam, Norfolk—W. I.ll.rton, silk-manu facturer, Steward-street, Spitaltields—W. Shelmeldine, sen., pa per-manufacturer, Manchester—G. C. Davy, linen-.lraper, New Church -street, Lisson-grove—.l. N. Hassel!, mercer, !Shrewsbury G. W. Lyndon, wholesale-jeweller, Gerrard-street, Soho— T.Eve leigh, furniture-dealer, Lamb's Conduit-street. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. G. Appleton and H. F. Gadsden, auctioneers, Old Broad-street —T. Bromhcad and R. Nott, iron-merchants. Old Market-strlet, Bristol—J. and H. H. Carter, wine-merchants, Battle-bridge, Rettenden, Essex—ll. Shearman and R. Henderson, seedsmen, Strand—R. Rowntree and Co., tailors, Leyburn, Yorkshire—T. I. Councell and Co., g;ocers, Bristol—G. Inglis and M. Kenworthy, linen-merchants, INJanchester—H. and J. Mace, schoolmasters, Fareham, Southamptnnshire—J. Tucker and Co., brokers, Lime street, City—J. and .1. Lorthouse, wholesale-chemists, Kingston upon-Hull—C. Rawlinson and W. N. Turner, grocers, Thayer street, Manchester-square—W. King ani J. Evans, linen-drapers, St. Alban's—J. Matthews ao d C. Pearson, attornies, Gravesend —J. H. Nicholls and W. Perrati, linen-drapers, Yeovil, Somer setshire—ll. Cobb and W. Morley, p i Ter-stainers, York—V. and J. Williams, general-dealers, Lower Marsh, Lambeth—J. Massey and W. Kent, corn-dealers, Gloucester—J. 'Floyd and Co., china manufacturers, Lane-end, Staffordshire. " AN EXCURSION TO THE MONASTERIES OF ALeonAga AND BATALHA," BY THE AUTHOR OF " VATHEN."— " The reader will regret," says the Examiner, it; reviewing this new work by Mr. Bcckford, " when be closes this volume, ag he regrets when he wakes from a delicious dream, which has been only so slightly touched with horror as to make its cle:i ciousness more deep and lasting. A rich perfume rises from its pages, of Alcobacia banquets and Compotations, of or chards, of orange and apricot, of gay suppers, of friars' luxu rious intrigues, and of the epieureat, worship of abbots and right reverend fathers in God. The description Mr. Beckford gives of his ride to Batalha is vivid and poet►cal to a high de gree. There is not indeed a line in the book that is dull or prosaic." On Thursday last, the Commission of the Gen' Assembly, on the motion of the Rev. Dr. M.Fadane town, by a majority of 90 to 3, expressed its disapy• of the character of the Commission appointed to or the amount of Church Accommodation and Pastor tendance possessed by the people of Scotland. this ciztisiorh—G'ree:t - c . Advertiser. MitiltmeadllllN