The Sun. — London, England, 1848-06-21 00:00:00

td e R eform Bill, speaking to an American of distinguished s 1 8 e 1 4i , ' 'tst Who then represented his country at our Court, and to at° him, " I cannot but ;eel very anxious on proposing ~ make an alteration in a constitution which has lasted soon~o He said, " Yes, at long and so strong." And that, i con tact, s the li g ht i n w hi c h I re gard the constitution of this to nt rY; it has been very long—it has been very strong; We should therefore apply ourselves with the utmost care, t i l ih e the ut most d e lib erat i on , an d I w ill say w i t h th e grea t e st ti v 4 J, tYt to any plan which proposes to alter the representa oody in this House. Then, taking it in that point of view, alndabot with regard to the question of right, let us see whether y elect e d b y a ll t h e h ouse h o ld ers an d a ll th e l o dgers would a better Parliament, a better representation, than the pre /71711 House of Commons. If you look to really household o u t , a ge; the objection applies to which the Hon. Gentleman an ed, that you get a representation of brick and mortar, ," that those who have been the advocates of the Charter h„have a fair right to complain when they see the smallest gseholders admitted to the right of voting, while many to nne superior in property and in intelligence to the bot 'n householders are excluded.—( Hear, hear.) I do think that that is an objection which can be fairly i i !tert a i ned against the present systent of suffrage, because h at mode makes a choice among the householders ; it does 411 : a right to property ; it takes property of a certain i 4 ht; it takes the rating combined with that property , y_ Lien tixes the franchise If we admitted the whole ot householders without any other qualification than tat of being householders, it would be open to the ob '."1311 that we admitted men of inferior intelligence. It are to make the suffrage more general—if you are to ae it universal, I do not see that having universal suffrage ' could well act upon the plan proposed by the Hon. 'Peman, by keeping up the present cities and all but the Iler boroughs of the country; I do not see that you could avoid that division into equal districts and into equal °ha, which it is the proposal of the advocates of the ter to introduce.—( Hear, hear.) If lam asked whether ision into equal districts, and universal suffrage to every person of full age, would give a better representation people at large than the present system does, and be more conducive to the interests of the people, I deny that such would be the result. You would Y have a great number of representatives for the large some fifty representatives for this metropolis ; ten or twenty for other large towns; each itative imbued with the spirit and the ex dings of the populations of these towns. You would 3 *he feelings of the smaller boroughs and middle rns represented ; you would have representatives of 'ultural classes of totally a different character, firmly to existing institutions, but unwilling to adopt the of reform which this House and others formed under m Act, have been willing to adopt. I fear that oresentation so composed, totally differing in their lewa—one ton much influenced with views of exten oration ; the other, adverse to progress and im s—you would have a collision and a contest which angerous in its operation, and, above all, the Par composed would not fairly represent the country iuld affect to represent. As far as his arithmetic tn. Gentleman the Member for Montrose was right her; he said that a million of people, in some id no greater representation than a few hundreds. tic was perfectly clear; but when you examine and the reason of these differences you will ; representation, on the whole, is better from a large variety of that kind than if you had of representation, and that the representation of hen we were discussing the Reform Bill, a hose loss we had afterwards to deplore, be e. promise of great talents in political life, litical views totally differed front mine—l ed, who wished to give two Members to the sedule B—men of great science, he thought, tat talent and information would be sent by Ighs, though not persons of property in the as those who were likely to be sent to a division of the country, and not being I of those stirring habits such as th.ose who ent by great towns. The Right. Hon. Baronet ramworth, made a similar proposition. The quoting a few observations which the Right de in support of these views on the occa ing a Jury Bill, proceeded by saying—l rgdments were founded on sound and just it I conceive that, in giving forty Members I sixty Members to other small boroughs, 'ding sufficiently for that class of repro as in it not only men of commercial and dge, and. men of every kind of informa in it men who have studied the consti y—men in active and men not in ac lligence fits them to be representatives, o not qualify them for county repro the representation of such places as mingham. If this is the case, and if hat view, it disposes very much of the its that have been put forth, that a s, that a small place returns as many lace, that there are a thousand voters here are only 300 voters in another in saying that these Members ought ain basis of the constitution, that we House of Commons like the country ions professions and various occupa sat, then the whole of the arguments em founded on the disparity of the at once to the ground. The Hon. rid of disparity; like the rest of his vague and undefined. Then what were to adopt his resolution? He se existing boroughs, with the ex would throw Horsham, with three be county of Kent; but would he erbury, Guildford—such towns as heir present situation? If he did he numbers ; and I say, how would a bit better satisfied than they are till there would be 20,000 electors in another? They would then Id effectual reform instead of a hich you have given us. The the end of his speech, wished for ; very much in the same lan reproached with having used tot know how he can have a Or the advocates of the Charter, ;an his adherents, would still tint. They ask for a vote for Honourable Gentleman does cts, which he does not pretend at any length on the question that under that system there how an elector voted as well eetings lately held, there was a gentleman from America file in the United States to of in itself was not security, tame in England. Though France were elected by net revolution. With re that the duration of Par rears, if I agreed with the a thinking that we should stituencies, I should hold im that it was a matter Id have annual or trien that annual Parliaments want is not the power of behave themseves, as he Bristol, not for ill-be ivil religious liberty. tentation that you ought eve in view the mainte presentatives and their Jollity in the policy of had triennial Parlia be unsettled, you would le to consider that they annual election, either sort of renewal of the id willing to make. change, that annual finial Parliaments, and t proposition of all.— on in favour of five sent duration of Par my vote for an alte tat there is a very n between Members eves though Mem for five years, I do s has a great influ res.—( Hear, hear.) ich the Hon. Gen , I do not think he nent took place in that period shown to be the mere •ely bigots who rn, indifferent to peo ple? I think de in that time, een adopted by as clearly ascer sponded quickly nil. The new slavery was en nmense change e of the people, cl before by any Shortly after t open to the reat commer tr two after, a, measure Ily interested, iculty that it ' Mr. Pitt ssenters com elebration of and deaths. y remedied. ins were en ; were sub constitution urse of late sores from but which in. Member tar, hear.) ie number er of ex , and one ch surely ieculiarly acy—the measure ; others 3untry ; tore was igs held 'or the ning to a asked h have arried, nny.— much thesis great great Bence may the ehen ch it t it ink, .lia- Seat hat Isi res b is a n. is TWF SUN,_ LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, similar kind. - I' do not think that we should content our selves with improving the legislation, and altering, the Ex cise and Cusioms.—(Cheers.) I think while the Reform Bill was a settlement of a great question that the Reform Bill itself may admit from time to time of such improvements or Alterations as experience and knowledge may suggest.— (Hear hear.) And at the time when I was most attacked is speaking of the Reform Bill as a final measure, I spoke in this manner of the retention of the freemen. I said I thought it was a misfortune that the freemen were kept in the Reform Bill, and that if they exercised the franchise corruptly, one of two courses must be adopted, either to dis franchise them altogether, or, what I considered the better course, to treat the rights of the freemen as other rights had been treated. In a subsequent passage I said that there were many detects in the Reform Bill which required to be corrected, but that such changes differed entirely from a pro position to found a new reform Bill, based on triennial Par liaments, household suffrage, and vote by ballot. This was said in my letter to the electors of Stroud, written in 1839. From the year 1839 to the present time, I do not think the lion. Member for Montrose, or any of t hose who agree with bins, have thought it necessary to bring forward this ques tion of the constitution of the House of Commons. Neither as a Minister officially, nor when sitting on that side of the House, have I thought it necessary to intro • lime any measures of reform on this particular sub jec. But as the public mind seems now alive to subjects of this nature, I believe the time will come - per haps is not far distant—when reforms of the description 1 mentioned might be introduced, which will tend to purif the representative system. I think the inquiry we intend to make by the Bill introduced this session with regard to cer tain boroughs, some of which have been accused and others proved to be guilty of corrupt practices, may give us further information than we now possess as to the course we ought to pursue—whether some of those boroughs ought to be disfranchised, and whether we ought not to take the same course with regard to others that were taken with re spect to tithe freemen of Great Yarmouth. But I should be sorry to see one or the other course adopted without other measures to accompany them. I should be sorry to see this House much reduced by disfranchising boroughs, or to disfranchise freemen without at the same time admitting other kinds of voters to take their place.—( Hear, hear.) What I have always admitted to be the defect of the Reform Bill, is not the having of eighty live different kinds of votes as stated by the Hon. Gentleman. What I think the defect of the Reform Bill is, that the great variety in the right of voting which formerly existed has been too much reduced to a uniform system.—(Hear, hear.) I think that by some different varieties of suffrage, by giv ing the franchise, for instance, to those who have placed money in the savings' bank, and thus showed their frugality ; and to those who have been eleeted by guilds, thus showing that their fellow-citizens placed confidence in them ; and by other modes of this kind we might extend the franchise without injuring the basis of our representation. I am not disposed to say the Reform Bill is a final measure, and that you cannot usetully and beneficially -alter and improve it.— (Hear, hear.) But if the Hon. Gentleman or the House ask me whether I am prepared at the present moment to intro duce any Bills for that purpose, I must at once say that I do not at the present moment intend to intro duce any considerable measures of the kind. I might find reasons enough for that in the variety of measures be fore the House, and to which the attention of the House has been already in a great degree directed. But, Sir, there are other reasons—reasons which induced the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Montrose, to think that this was a good time for a large measure of reform, but which indaced me to come to a totally different conclusion. It is admitted, and it must be admitted, that sixteen years ago you adopted a very large measure of reform in the representation—a much larger measure, I believe, than the most sanguine reformers of the day expected the Ministers of the King to adopt. It must be admitted tkat the carrying of the measure of reform— the removal of Gatton, Old Sarum, and such like places, from the representation, and the admission to it of such towns as Leeds, Birmingham, Sheffield, and Manchester— that all has contributed to give a larger and a more secure basis to the representation. It cannot be denied either that the House of Commons thus reformed has carried large measures of improvement—vast in their changes—tending to the increase of popular power and popular advantage, and showing that the House is ready to act according to the enlightened opinions of the people. The Hon. Member says our votes this year have been extra vagant, and that we have been acting against the opinions of the people in the 'great establishments we have kept up. There are some questions of the present session on which I have desired the division lists of the 'House to be examined, so that comparisons might be made between the constituen cies represented by Members dividing in .the majority and the counties represented by Members dividing in the minority. Ou the first of these divisions, that limiting the duration of the income-tax, the Members who voted in the majority represented 668,038 ; whilst those who voted in the minority represented only 346,689 electors. In the division of the 20th of March, on a motion of Mr. Hume's for reducing the number of men in our navy, there voted in the majority the representatives of 716,278 electors, and in the minority the representatives of only 171,317. On a similar motion for reducing the num ber of men in the army, there voted in the majority 600,753 electors, and in the minority 165,255.—( Hear, hear.) Now, after these divisions on great public questions, I think it cannot be said that the small boroughs have overpowered the votes of the people upon matter relating to finance. The votes of the House on these occasions have - fairly repre sented the opinions of the people. That there has been of late years a tendency to augment our establishments on the part of this House, the Government, and the country, I believe to be true. There are times when it is thought well that we should render our establishments as perfect and efficient as possible; and then when in, accordance with that wish, large sums have been expended, it often happens that the tide changes, and that a great wish is expressed that no more money should be spent than is absolutely necessary. In times of distress, when trade may happen to be crippled from any cause, such a course may be desirable to adopt, and I am sure that at such a period the House and the Government never fail to feel and act upon that principle. As I said before, there can be no ground for saying at present, that with regard to expenditure the House does not represent the opinions of the nation.—(Hear.) My belief is that it does, and that it represents it fairly. Well, then, Sir, if you find that a great measure of reform was carried sixteen years ago, that great measures of reform have been carried by the Parliament so improved—if you find also that on questions which do arise or which are likely to arise, this House represents the opinions of the people, and not any selfish motive or class interest--then, I say, this is not the time when a cry and a clamour for more reform ought to be eXcited. The cry for change at present raised is ac companied by so many suggestions and proposals that are wild and visionary —such, for example, as those contained in the petition presented to-night by the Noble Lord the Mem ber for Bath—(Hear, hear)—views of capital, labour, and property of the most erroneous kind, are so generally float, that there is, I think, good reason in that for not making, at this time, any great or sweeping alterations. And here let me say that deny the charge—the popular and common charge—that the government of this country is carried on for the benefit of its aristocracy. I believe sincerely that the government is carried on for the benefit of the people at large, and for the sake of no class interest; but if it be meant to be said that because people belong to the aristo cracy they are to be debarred from taking their part in public affairs, why I object entirely to such narrow views. —(Hear, hear.) I, for my part, will never allow that because a man happens to be called Stanley or Howard he is to be prevented from enjoying public distinction, as if because he bad not a name less noble or less illustrious. But, Sir, there are other reasons—reasons of which the Members of this House can not but be sensible—reasons which I find in the records of events which have been and are every day happening around us. I say that at such a time the advantages which you have had in your free constitution have been to you of inestimable benetit.—( Loud cheers.) The stability of that constitution which you have shown amidst all storms, and the mode in which the institutions of this country have braved all hos tile attacks, have excited the admiration, not only of those who are attached to this country, but even of those who have no connexion with it, but who at the same time de light to see order and social peace maintained; while it has brought to you the respect of those even most hostile to your name and progress.—(Hear, hear.) I hope that this House will do nothing to lose that admiration or forfeit that respect. You have stood, "Like a great seamark, braving every storm, And saving all who eye it !" —(Cheers.) I trust you will maintain that position—that you will not choose at this time to accede to any vague and indefinite proposal of some measure of reform, which, while it apparently stops short of adopting the People's Charter, cannot actually stop short of ultimately enacting that great change—( Hear, hear)—that you will rather think that it is due to the institutions which you have the happiness to in herit, that it is due to the other advantages you enjoy, that it is due, above all, to that great people whom it is your honour to represent, to give a steadfast and most determined negative tc the present motion.—(Cheers.) Mr. W. J. FOX could not but observe that the objections which the Noble Lord had urged against the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose referred rather to the details of tht6neliatfi-6 which that motion indicated than to the princi ,. le - uptiti which it was founded. But those details were not now fairly before thellouse ; and it was with a view to fix the attention of the House, if he could, to the great princi ple at stake in this matter that he now ventured to offer a few observations to the House. He thought the Noble Lord must have been pleased with the fair opportunity that had been afforded him of correcting, any mistake in reference to his expressions on a former oc6asion. At the same time he considered the Noble Lcrd to bah been rather too severe on those by whom he thought those expressions were per verted. His (Mr. Fox's) - own impression was that • the Noble Lord meant to draw a distinction between fiscal reform and organic reform ; that he- was willing to see the former gradually progressing, but that he would resist the advance of the other in any way whatever.. It must have been gratifying to the Noble Lord to have the opportunity of telling the country that he was not opposed to further reform in the representative sys tem ; but it would have been still more gratifying to th e country if the Noble Lord had more distinctly hinted what the reforms' were to be; what was the principle by which those reforms were to be guided ; what would be their ex tent, and what their results. He confessed that from what the Noble Lord had said there was very little to guide them in their anticipations, and that little was of the most indefi nite description. It merely amounted to this—that he would take the opportunity, from time to time, to disfranchise a man who should be guilty of bribery, or to admit a man to the franchise who should have acquitted himself well by making an accumulation in a savings'-bank.—(Hear, hear.) The broad question, of whether the industrial masses of this c h o a u d n h t r e y e nwsecraer c o e r y were tel, enhoetdfaei either er h y represented the o i h n . ae Member h H e r o u fo s e r h S eurtrheiya think t by a f t a h i e r r N e f o e b r l e e n e o r t d o w t h h e o mfolloweds whichNh aodr c W ou e l s d t taken place to dism iss ferences of opinion thattheexmistbeyd aatbtrhieefmrembeatrwkeeans ttohotshee People'swdhife the e pp N or e t h e l d e advocated the To household suffrage.mC eet eartehre an d question thos f e a i w r l h y o , ar t Lord should have shown , n ot the differences existing hey these two views among theeople, but how ey were both opposed by a third party whop that tethaedrve existed i t s oa d ny reform at all.—(Hear, hear.) To show ha a limit availed but little. To point to that isFrep y difference between parties who were for going h d eyond a t a h e at struck not at all at the matter, reed be shown that they were not that some c s o o u m l d e considerable reform was indispensable. Those meetings, whether in favour of universal suffrage or of household r u ee n d less tha l suffrage, proved that the great mass of the people considered that one or the other was necessary; and they demonstrated that 'the people at large concurred in their by their diversity of op i n i on. The -,real question : w as main purpose much more closely than th e y were separate d not whatmean meant not t l 7e fo n r t m er s u h p a o el ti been any o e r en w su e r re e ; 0., the House of Commons, f or he thongfic this e.o it l fai through the Noble Lord's reason i ng, not only La' sion, but on many other occasions, that hi rOreggliNt government they had only to regard w h a t might tie'&lted the extrinsic agency, and not the p ower b y w hich , it'Vfas agency formed and fashioned. The representative - bad hot the co uthnetriaye o b p u l it h lt ad w te as do a it in government conformity with only with toth the feelings nga of opinion. —(Hear, hear.) If all the Members of that • Assembly possessed the most absolute wisdom, and if every one of their measures bore that stamp, there was still something else to be considered.—(Hear ) They were to be the representation of the feelings, the condition, the intellectual, the moral, nay, even the physical, if you would, of those who were the constituents, or claimed to be the constituents, of those representatives. There was another question besides this, and that was, whether the millions of human beings with whom we were connected as tellow-countrs men were cherishing in theh bosoms the ennobling feelings of conscious freedom, or were smarting under the irritation of evil passions, excited by being treated as only mem b ers o f a s l a ve class in what claimed to be a free country. There was no question of home or foreign policy, no relations of treaties with foreign nations, no arrangements which might open or close the doors of admission to fortunate aspirants, no question whatever of more importance to the safety and continued prosperity and glory of Great Britain than the state of feeling among the great masses of the people of whom that House claimed to be the representatives. The propositions of the Hon. Member for Montrose had many And varied bearings on the constitu tion, but the one practical question to his (Mr. Fox's) mind, the question in which he felt the liveliest interest, was this— were the working people of this country represented as they ought to be, and if n o t, cou ld th ey b e so re p r e sen ted with out - any peril to any valuable institution? This was the question which interested him. He maintained that they .yere not represented as they ought to be. How did the matter stand in electoral districts? A valuable return had been moved for in the last Parliament by Mr. Williams, then Member for Coventry, and delivered in the course of the present session, from which it appeared that there were only 320,645 10/. householders, and out of these where would the industrial classes be found but in the poorest rank? The re turn was so arranged that it showed the number of house holders occupying at a rental of from 10/. to 151. and then from 151. to 201., and so on. It appeared from the return that out of this constituency of 320,645 10/. householders, those who paid a rental ranging from 101. to 15'. were only 99,149 persons, that was to say, that the inhabitants of houses rated at from 101. to 15/. were only one-third of the household borough' constituency. They were completely swamped by the classes above them ; and when the oocu piers of 30/., 40/. and 501. houses were taken into the ac count, it would be found that they belonged to the higher portion of the middle classes, who could not be called work. ing people at all. But out of the entire constituency of 85e,000 persons, upon a rough calculation, only 1 in 17 be longed to the working classes, and no more. He did not, call that a representation of the working people—of those who made our clothing, who built our houses and pa laces, who cultivated our fields, and who made, in fact, all our wealth; nor could he understand the feeling with which Hon. Gentlemen could turn round and say, " You have done all this, you have created it with your strong arms, but now we tell you that you are the villeins of the soil, and that you have nothing to ao with the laws but to obey them." The Noble Lord said that a great many things should be done for their benefit, though the condition of a benefit was, that it should be desired and prized by the party on whom it w.B bestowed, and though it was most desirable to take away from the working man that incessant occasion for discontent which arose from his having no hand in the matter of legislation, and which led him to fancy that he would have done much more wisely if he had been consulted. Let the working people of this country be substantially represented, and in so doing he would not very minutely inquire into their information and acquirements or into the amount of their deposits in the savings" banks.—( Near.) They were already taxed; they contributed towards the exigencies of the state; they had at least a property in their own limbs and nervous arms, and was not that enough to mark them out for constituents, for it must be borne in mind that is was not proposed to make Members of them? It was not necessary that they should be able to unravel the mystery of the Spanish mar riages, that they should be versed in the Treaty of Utrecht, or that they should philosophize on the Norman conquest. It was only necessary that they should nominate a neighbour whom they had known all their lives, or some one who had a national reputation, as the person to whose guardianship they were willing to confide their interests. That was all the knowledge which the labouring man wanted. This knowledge and information which had been talked about was not required by the House in other matters. By one of the clauses of the Public Health Bill, a plurality of votes was given to wealthy efec4piers upon the ground that the Bill affected property. He had no doubt, however, that those persons would be found to be quite as uninformed on sani tary questions as a man in a factory would be on any diffi cult question of foreign politics.—(Hear, hear.) One of the most interesting debates on reform in his recollection was that which took place in 1822, when the Noble Lord now at the head of her Majesty's Government brought forward a motion on the subject in a most remarkable and impressive speech. On that occasion the Noble Lord quoted a passage from Blackstone, which perhaps the House, for the sake of the comment which followed it, would allow him to read. 'rhe passage was taken from book i, chap. 2, of the "Com mentaries ."—" 1. As to the qualifications of the electors. The true reason of requiring any qualification with regard to property in voters, is to exclude such persons as are in so mean a situation that they are esteemed to have no will of their own. If these persons had votes, they would be tempted to dispose of them under some undue influence or other. This would give a great, an artful, or a wealthy ,man a larger share in elections than is consistent with gene ral liberty. If it were probable that every man would give his vote freely, and without influence of any kind, then, upon the true theory and genuine principles of liberty, every member of the community, however poor, should have a vote in electing those delegates to whose charge is commit ted the disposal of his property, his liberty, and his life." In reference to this passage, which the Noble Lord quoted in 1822, he continued thus :—" We have not only one free agent, but there are in this country at least 1,000,000 of free agents—men perfectly free and independent, men who have no vote for a Member of Parliament, though they are anxious to acquire the right, and are in every way qualified to ex ercise the functions of electors." On another occasion, so late as 1835, the Noble Lord also said, "Although it is a much disputed question, yet I believe that, in ancient times, every inhabitant householder resident in a borough was competent to vote for Members of Parliament."—(Hear, hear.) He would now revert to the argument used by the Noble Lord in 1822, as it was the argument which he meant to adopt and apply on the present occasion. The Noble Lord at that time pointed to the intel ligence of the country, and to the growth of that intelli gence, as a demonstration that the franchise must be largely expended. He argued, that in London there were 100 cir culating libraries, and 900 in the country ; and that '23,600,000 newspapers had been issued in the year preceding. He would go back, not to 1822, but to 1832, when the Noble Lord realized his own views by carrying the Reform Bill ; and he would assume that he then proportioned the fran chise to what lie held to be the advanced intelligence of the country. He could not say, however, that the facts would altogether bear him out in relinquishing the vantage ground he might have gained by the Noble Lord's previous conces sions. The Noble Lord said there were in 1822 1,000,000 persons prepared for the franchise; but the Reform Bill did not provide for half of that million, and they had been left unproyided for since, with a quarter a century of wrong pressing upon their minds, and depressing their spirits. While in 1832 the number of newspapers circulated was 32,000,000, the circulation had been for some time nearer 70,000,000 than 60,000,000 ; and as regarded societies and institutions established for the people's improvement, he would only refer to one of which he had read an account in the papers of that morning. It was an account of a meeting of the Yorkshire Mechanics Institution, held at Ripon, where not fewer than eighty-one societies were included and renresented in that institution alone. Since 1832 500,0001. had been expended by the Government on education ; a much smaller sum than ought, as be thought, to have been expended on a matter of such inconceivable importance ; but 30 that sum had been laid out, in addition to the building of schools from sources of private subscription and private benevolence. Since 1832 there had, besides, sprung up a popular literature altogether unparalleled in extent—(He —a literature of which our numerous magazines, the publi cations of the Messrs. Chambers, and the works of Charles Knight, formed a distinguished part, and which were circu lated through the country to an amount previously unex ampled.—(Hear, hear.) One of their alone, Chambers's Miscellany of Entertaining Knowledge, being only one of the many publications of that house, had been issued to the extent of 18,000,000 of printed sheets; and he understood that their sales fluctuated with the state of the manufac turing districts—(Hear)—one - sixth of the issue being in the counties of York and Lancaster. Then, if they looked to other facts indicative of the advance of intelligence among the people at large, they found proofs multiplying all around them. It might be said that these were cheap publications to which he had referred, and that the public mind would rather be vitiated than improved by them, that their powers would be frittered away, such light reading not being adap ted to mature the intellectual character; but they must re member, that all the standard works of the most celebrated authors had at the same time been cheapened; that the works of Bacon could be bought for fourpence, and those of Shakspeare for two shillings, and that the writings of all the philosophers who had adorned the country were circulated at the merest trifle above the cost of type and paper.— (Hear, hear.) It was a remarkable fact that the production of new literature had not diminished either. He found in the history of printing, in " M'Culloch's .Commercial Dic tionary,' a statement of the number of new works pub lished, and the average price per volume, in four years end ing 1832 and 1842. In the four years then ending the new books published were 6,149, and in the four years ending 1842 they ' were 18,59; ; while the average price per volume was, in the first period Ifs. 5d., and in the second period Ss. 9V e d.—(Hear.) The book sellers' circular had recently fallen into his hands, and he found from it that the number of new works last year was 3,414, and of new editions 570, while the average price per volume was 6s. 3%d.—(Hear, hear.) He might refer, also, to the establishment, since 1832, of parks and places of re creation, which, though not to be used as an argument, might be taken as an indication of growing intelligence. Take, for, example, the visitors of the British Museum. In 1832 the number of visiters was 147,896 ; last year they were 820,965. The visitors to the reading-room of the Mu seum, in 1832, were 31,200 ; last year, 67,525.—(Hear, hear.) Then, as regarded the economics of the working classes, they found a vast improvement.—[Here the Honourable Gentleman pointed out the great increase which had taken place since 1832 in the deposits in the savings -banks, to show the improved system of economy now prevalent ; and also the great increase that had taken place in the number of public petitions to Parliament, in order to point out the growing discontent among the unenfranchised classes.] There was one peculiar fact that could not but strike every reflecting person at the present day, and that was the number of writers that were springing up among the working classes—writers who did not, like the authors of former days, rest on patrons and private patronage—writers who courted no class above them, but yet who retained strong within them the feelings of the working class in which they bad been born and bred.--(Hear, hear.) Nothing like this was known in former times; but in the literature of which he spoke the fact he had stated was before them in every page. Their works were elevated by a peculiar spirit, a spirit the result of the circumstances in which they had been born and bred, and the political con dition of the class to which they belonged. Perhaps he should be naming authors whose names would sound strang to the great majority of those he addressed were he to run over the list, and yet they were a class of writers whose works every legislator would do well to consult.—(Hear, hear.) He could not understand the spirit of his country unless he did consult them. They had in them the rich aad racy spirit of our old English writers ; and when they had the sense to avoid the conventionalities of mo dern authors, and follow out the dictates of their own aspirations, they indeed brought forth "thoughts that breathe, and words that burn."—(Hear, hear.) He might refer to Bamford, the Radical author of Lancashire, whose graphic description of the stirring times of 1819 the future historian would transfer to his pages as the best record of the events of that extraordinary time. He might also speak of " one who whistled at the plough," whose narra tions of the flogging of the soldier were enough to make the the br race. one There s,anddr wasawte hartsferopoet Thom, mtheeyes of of t il h e e sil m c o r s e t ep p ca u llo o u n s of our I d e v e there,r u r y a w n h d o w t o h o o k c s o h u e l l d t e g r vunder ehis a countryhedg , a s n o d n g s a s w w h o i r s t h child die there, andwho could give his country songs worthy of Burns;, that man never knew what it w as to live in a 101.' Thomas Co oe house.. There were such men as William Lo v et t and te ra w ry ou ni ld ei n i o t t an a d sk int t e h u e ec I t l u o s u l se po t w o e t r ak f e ro a m n jinai o ftherir literary his questionable testimony. He would call for that of the Honourable Member for Reading (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd), who, as it had been said of Akenside, that he had breathed the spirit of Plato into English poetry, might be said to have invoked the spirit of Euripides on the British stage, and not invoked in vain ; or of him who had also gained laurels, though in a different' field of exer ticn, and of wham it would ever be a subject of grateful recollection that, with the fine perception of taste and with the generosity of genius, he saw and recognised the powers which were revealed in the Purgatory of Suicides, though written bya self-taught cobbler, and gave the author facili ties for coming before the public which would otherwise have been difficult of accomplishment.—(Hear.) When this whole literature was considered, from the time of Ebenezer Elliot, the Sheffield worker in iron, it would be found per vaded by the spirit of indignation which would arise among :nen who felt themselves reduced to a slave class, threaten ing the disruption of that nationality the unity of which had hitherto constituted the glory of this country. The stream of mind was separated into two distinct courses; and if they did not recognise the claims of a class already represented in the noblest arena, that of their national literature, they would , -xhibit to the world a most deplorable spectacle ; the genius of the country would become suicidal by the antagonism of its elements. Future collections of poets and historians would not he complete without the authors of those produc tions. They had a niche in history. They had a place among the laurelled, but they were not admissible into the society of 10/. householders. —( Hear, hear.) In all ranks high talents and great information were the exception ; but they very much misunderstood the working classes who thought that among them were not diffused the mind and the intellectual aspirations w hi ch rendere d them not un worthy brothers of such as h e h a d named ; nay, which ren dered them not unworthy c ountrymen of those gr eat names, such as those of Milto n and Locke, wh i c h co nstitute: the brightest glory this country had ye t achieved. What was the Legislatur e to fear ? That those men would render this House a l ess decorous an d l es s dignified scene? Would it be thought that those men would return from their body—still less from the refuse of that body— persons to claim fellowship here, who would turn the House aside by personalities and sarcasm from every great topic of discussion?—(Hear, hear.) Would they send thither men elated. not with champagne or burgundy, but with beer or brandy, to throw disorder in the midst of their business? Would they send people who would make a tax on property? Why, property—the love of it was instinctive in an English man.---(Hear, hear.) They could not propose to him a " land scheme,' or anything of the sort which he could call h is own—(" Hear," from Mr. O'Connor)—even with the most forbidding prospects of attaining his object—(A laugh )—but he would make the attempt to acquire property. Nor was there any participation in opinions which strangely had found their way into a document which had found its way to the table of the House. He had consorted with working people—not as master, as landlord, as employer, or as patron—and he had found in them that intelligence and those qualities which kept alive faith in human nature. They had the spirit of freemen. But it must be considered to what they were ex posed. There was a locality which he had known for upwards of fifty years. He first remembered it with a constituency as pure as could be found throughout the length and breadth of the land. Of late it had gained a name for venality; and how? Parties were kept up in the town; partisans were led to bid against one another in corporation as well as Par liamentary contests; and by keeping it before the people that their vote was always to be sold, by this mode of prac tical teaching corruption was instilled into their blood.— (Hear, hear.) It was the tempter who ought to be the ob ject of indignation. The briber was a thousand times worse than the bribed, and when those people did fall there was something which ought to abate the severity of the judg ment on their conduct. One poor man said he had never taken a bribe, but he was in the workhouse, and he took the bribe in order that he might liberate himself from what he thought a poor-law bastile, and consort again with his fellow-men. Another man, who was invited by a Noble Lord to take his place in a carriage, and go to the poll, replied, "No, my Lord, I will walk to the poll, and will not disgrace you by riding in your carriage." The working people would not elect men of their own class as representa tives unless under very strong inducements. In France, with its universal suffrage, they had chosen about 30 or 38 from their own class among the 900 representatives. What would they do here? They would look to persons of local importance, to local benefactors, and to men of national reputation. These were the men who were desirable for that House, rather than those who were unknown to the locality, or who went rambling about with their heavy purses—(Hear, hear) seeking where they could find a constituency to corrupt. Under such a system as had been presented to the notice of the House, the latter class of can didates would be found generally to fail, and there were only two classes of candidates whose claims would prepon derate in the choice of the constituency. Under such a system there could be no such degrading practice of canvass ing as now existed, and which only brought the poor and the rich together for their mutual degradation. With large constituencies that would not,exist. Men of infor mation and talent, for whom little boroughs were said to provide seats, could more easily find their way into the House through large constituencies without subjecting them selves to any of those degrading practices which polluted trim who gave and him who received alike. It was of im mense importance that they should be a united people, that they should not have a class unrepresented, whether on ac count of their industrial undertakings, their relations with other countries, or their internal and external prosperity. One advantage of such a subject as the present being dis cussed at the present moment was, that it brought the middle and the working classes into more harmonious con cert than had existed for many years. It afforded a fair means of amalgamating them together, and it was for the aristocracy to consider whether they would do well in with holding themselves from that union which, with their assistance, would become the union of a threefold cord which conld not be easily broken. It was not in our armaments —brilliant as were their exploits, and magnificent as were such means of defence—it was not in these that our great glory and influence consisted. It was in the indomitable energy and enterprise of the people, in the course of opera tions which depended on the working classes as our main spring; it was on these that our power and safety must rest; it was from the progress of mind must come our security. Unite this class on such harmonious terms— disregard theological difficulties—spread education with a bold and free hand over the country—throw wide and open the doors of the constitution—give the people an equali sation of the burdens of taxation, which surely was their right, whatever else was—do this, and they would have the millions no longer an alienated body, but the real and firm base of the social pyramid. By these means, we should achive far nobler conquests in other countries than our armies had ever yet won; for we should bring back voluntary tributes from every clime to which our commerce penetrated —we should raise more hon ourable trophies, trophies not watered by blood— than we could do by the most sanguinary victories; for these measures would be th e source of un i on w ith, and peaceful dominion over, other nations, a n d as in war, so in peace, we should continue to be powerful and uncon quered. Untax the population, so far as their taxation was unequal—educate the population, enfranchise the population, and then they might arm the population without a shadow of fear for the result—(Laughter from the Opposition benches)—for should the nations of the world be banded against us we should be perfectly able to drive from our shores the world's hostility.—(Cheers.) He would only say, without entering into metaphysical speculations about as the rule, and showing the cases for exception, that to accomp li s h all that the working classes required the Legi s l ature must d o th e m jus tice ; in the words of the Great Charter, " neither denying nor delaying justice." He begged of that House, therefore , people of the British empire.—(Ch eers. ) Mr. DISRAELI—The address o f th e H on . Gentleman justice—equal, universal justice—j us ti ce to the working who has just sat down is professedly founded on the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose. The Hon. Gentleman has avowed himself to-night the advocate of those whom he describes as serfs; but I cannot tied in the resolution of the Hon. Member for Montrose that he is prepared to enfranchise those serfs.—(Hear.) No one can suppose for a moment that the project brought before us to night by the Hon. Member for Montrose is one that at all aims at e l eva ti ng the condition or the position of those persons in th e soc i a l or political sys tem. Whatever may be the prejudi ce o f th e lion. Gentle man who has just addressed us ag a i nst a 10/. elector, it is not, as I understand it, the proposition of the Hon. Member for Montrose that a person—who is found starving under a hedge—is to be entitled to the suffrage. Whatever may be the sentiments of the Hon.- Memb er f or Oldh am , I cannot u nderstand how, entertaining thos e op i n i ons and an imated by those feelings, he should have fou n d i t his d uty to be so de cidedly the friend of a plan, th e o bj ec t of which is rather to increase the diffi cu l ty o f the class whose interests, I believe, he most sincerely advocates. I cannot find out how the Hon. Gentleman, consistently with his philosophy, can support the p roposition o f the Hon. Member for Montrose.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to that and similar propositions, the gentlemen on this side of the House are in a position different from that of the Hon. Gen tleman and his supporters, and also from that of the mem bers of her Majesty's Government. It is not for us, Sir, either to defend or attack the Reform Act. We obeyed it. It received from us that allegiance which the law in this country always commands. The practical good sense of the country no doubt prevented much of the evil which we then anticipated from the operation of the measure. Bat when I say that we neither defend nor attack the Reform Bill, I cannot believe that it is consistent with our duty, or with the position which we occupy with regard to our con stituency and the country, a s the representatives of a party who were opposed to th e c h a nge of 1832, that we should evade the difficulty of a debate which some ar e in clined to think rather fruitful in difficulties , and therefore I wish to take this opportunity to make some observations on a project which has been so sedulously prepared, but the true character of which has not been sufficiently appreciated, and which, I am clear, has not been u nderstood by the elo quent advocate whom we have just heard, who is prepared to enfranchise imaginary serfs. The Hon- Gentleman told the great propounder of this pro j ec t dwelt but slightly on us he was the advocate of fiscal reform. I o bserved that that doctrine. I have watched with attention, and read with an observation of no careless character, the proceedings of meetings that have been attended by the Hon. Gentleman and his friends, and the resolutions th at they have offered to the consideration of those assemble d, and have always found that on every opportunity—on ev er y occasi on financial I and fiscal reform has been ostentatiously brought forward, and that the principal plea for Parliamentary . reconstruction yal all Government, talk of a t n h d e ituhcareased —(Hear, hear.) I have ture and taxation of the country. had occasion this afternoon to listen to the p re sentation of a and political revolution has been the inc rease in the expendi hear. ) I can eas il y a g n re d a e t n n or u m m o b us er e o x f p p e n e t d i t i u o n r e s . of The t he enor mously increased amount of taxation of t he cou ntry. I want to know what is th e reason that to-night we heard so little of fiscal and financial reforms?—(Hear , understand why the Hon. Gentleman who has just ad dressed the House did not dwell on that subject. He is a master of statistics, but statistics of a different kind to those we are accustomed to hear in this House. Those statistics may be very important in their way, but the amount of penny publications, the great increase in cheap literature, the increase of railway intellect, and of all those productions which you may find at the terminus of a station, are not statistics which touch the question of financial and fiscal re form. I think the House will agree with me, that all Eng land has been told, during the last four months, that there has been in this country an enormous increase in taxation, and in the expenditure of the Government. This has been told to the people of this country in order to impress on them that, in consequence of our excessive taxation, and the great expenditure of our Government, there ought to be changes made in unison with changes that are b e i ng made in other countries.—(Haar.) One word, then, as t o t h e enormous increase in the taxation of this country, I take the period of twenty years .ago. The revenue .raised in this country in, . 1828 WAS 49,500 , 0 001. ; in 1848, 47,500,000/., in round _numbers. , How is it possible, with these facts before them, r that, Honourable Gentlemen can maintain the position that the taxation of this country has been progressively increased ? But • the revenu e of 1828 was not only 2,000,000 L g reater than that of 1848 , but the revenue of 1828 was raised from a population, in round numbers, less than 23,000,009, while the revenue of 1848 has been raised from a population of 80,000,000. The burden of taxation per head in those,.tWo, periods, in 1828 amounted to something like 2/. 12k 2d.z.na-bead, and, i n 1848 it only amounted to 11. 10i. awl it ifltiqttio4,,,,....(Rear, JUNE 21, 1848, hear.) But we all know that the wealth of the country has increased in a much greater ratio than the population what, then, becomes of the validity of the plea for political change founded on the increase of taxation?—(Hear, hear. ) The taxation per head in this country, in 1848, as compared with twenty years ago, is greatly reduced in amount, but there is another circumstance of importance to be taken into account, namely, that there has been a great re-distribution of taxation, and in every instance that re-distribution has been in favour of the working classes of this country. Compare 1627 and 1847 with the two financial years of 1828 and 1848. The Customs of 1827 were under 18,000,000 L ; they szarcely exceeded that sum in 1848. The Excise duties in 1827 were 12,000,0001., they were not so much in 1848. The stamps and taxes were nearly the same in both years. There was an immense reduction in the revenue derivable from the Post -office in 1847 as compared with 1827. There was a reduction of more than 7,000,000/. in 1848 as compared with 1828, and a proportionate increase in the population of this country. The rate of our Government expenditure during the last twenty years, notwithstanding the immense increase of population, commerce, and public wealth, has been almost st a ti onary; the amount of our taxation has been stationary. The popular pleas for reform are, therefore„not true.— (Hear, hear.) The pleas that have been, to-night, ad nauseam, repeated in every petition are utterly fallacious, and it becomes those who offer those petitions to the House to vindicate the accuracy of their allegations. We are asked, in the first place, to increase the franchise. I lis tened with great respect to the Hon. Member for Montrose, and I certainly expected to hear from the Hon. Gentleman some principle laid d own upon which the franchise was to be extended. Any person who proposes a change ought certainly to lay down some principle on which that change may be founded. I heard none from the Hon. Gentleman. He told us that every man in England had a right to vote. He talked a b out not confounding constitutional rights . with the rights of man. He did not, however, show us the difference between constitutional rights and the rights of man, but he said that a vote w right of a subject o f t h e Queen. If it is the right o f the Englishman to have a vote , why is it necessarsrfoar ex f eaar cise of that vote that th e person should live in (Hear, hear.) But then he must be of age, says tl t iT s llo; dember. Again, he said th a t a person may be ca ll ed n to serve his country, and not b e more t h an eighteen yeaurrof age; and, therefore, he argued that every man twenty-one years of age should have a vote.—(Laughter and cheers.) If a man has a right to vote at twenty-one, I want to know on what principle he has not a right to vote at eighteen ? (Hear.) The whole of the male population. says the Hon. Gentleman, are liable to serve in the militia when they arrive at legal age, and they must }join the posse comitatus, even when they are at school ; and, therefore, he pro poses this great change. Bat in doing so he has laid down no principle whatever. I cannot understand where the line should be drawn. I observe in a debate not only in "another place," but in another country, that some ridicule was excited by a gentleman who advocated the rights of the other sex to the franchise—(A laugh)—but as far as the mere abstract reason is concerned, I should like to see anybody in this Hotee, who is the follower of the Honourable Gentle man opposite, get up and oppose that plan. I say that, in a country governed by a woman, in a country where you al low a woman to form a part of the other estate of the realm, English peeresses for example, where you allow a woman not only to hold land, hut be a lady of a manor, and to hold courts, where a woman, by law, may be a churchwarden— (Laughter) I really do not see when she has so much to do with Church and State, any one reason for your withholding from her the right to vote. (Hear, hear.) But the plan of the Hon. Gentleman oppo site at once disfranchises millions. Hon. Gentlemen oppo site have4spoken of the suffrage as " a trust." But I do not look upon it as " a trust" any more than " a right." It is what everything in England is—it is a privilege.—(Hear, hear.) It is created by law, as everything in England is created ; the characteristic of our history has been, that it is held out not as an odious exception, bat as a general re ward.—(Hear, hear.) Well now, Sir, that brings us really to the character of this House and the political order of which we are the representatives. We represent the Com mons, and the Commons are an estate of the realm. The material of that estate is of coarse a question of policy, of expediency, and it is perfectly open to anybody at any time to discuss the question of what that order should con sist; but it is an order, whether you make it a thousand or a hundred thousand, or two or three millions, it becomes an order, and a privileged order. The Reform Bill was a re construction of this order or estate of the realm. That was a settlement most unsatisfactory to the House. And no one can pretend that that settlement was earried with the fall support and sanction of the people of England.—( Hear.) fliere is not the slightest doubt that if you had had universal suffrage at that moment the measure would have been re jected. But you decided not only to have the Bill, and the whole Bill, but nothing but the Bill.-- (Laughter.) And you got it. But when there has been a great settlement of the question under such circumstances,is it unreasonable that we, who agreed to it with reluctance, should insist that be fore any new scheme is sanctioned for the new settlement of that great question, the newly-proposed construction should offer a fair prospect of giving satisfaction to the people and se curity to the State?—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I for one am no advocate for finality ; far from it. I cannot conceive that there may not be circumstances or periods when we ought to do that which which we have done for iOA years in this country—reconstruct the state of the Commons. I acknow ledge that the last reconstruction, however unsatisfactory to the Hon. Gentleman and his friends, is, I believe, more satis factory to the nation than the plan which is brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman. Certainly, I cannot, in considering this plan of the Hon. Gentleman, discover anything that has a tendency to satisty the public heart. This is not at all a projectwhich is to enfranchise " the serfs of England" that goes to the labouring classes, and says, "you shall take your place in the political constitution of your country." The Hon, Member for Montrose has brought forward a pro ject of which property, and property alone, is the basis.— (Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I think that property is already sufficiently represented in this House. I am prepared to support the system of 1832 until I see the character and constitution of the country occasion a new change.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, in opposing the motion of the Honourable Member for Montrose, I protest against being placed in the category of those who advocate "finality." This proposed change does not appear to me to be in any way adapted to satisfy the wants of the age, nor to be conceived in the spirit of the times. On this occasion I shall touch but very briefly upon a second point, not because I have any wish to evade that important part of the discussion—l mean ballot. We shall have an opportunity of discussing that question when the Hon. Gentleman opposite ( Mr. H. Berke ley) brings forward his motion. There is not the slightest ,:oubt that the adoption of the ballot in this country would at once effect a very great alteration in the character and habits of the people. And that I think would be a very great evil.—(Cheers.) But before we argue the question of suffrage and ballot, I am surprised that Hon. Gentlemen op posite perpetually forget the immense element which, in dis cussions of this character, ought never to be omitted; and.. that is the influence of opinion organized by a free press. That is the best safeguard against corruption and intimida tion.—(Cheers.) You may have what laws you like, but that is the means by which you can put an end to the intimi dation and corruption, as it elevates the tone of public feel ing, and brings the influence of public opinion upon the conduct of the great body of the. nation.—(Hear, hear.) Nobody can pretend that this is an age distinguished by its corrupt practices; on the contrary, every Parliament that has ever existed for the last fifty years has been less and less corrupted.—( Hear, hear.) We have not, as was the case seventy or eighty years ago, the Secretary of the Trea sury depositing a 5001. note in the hands of a Member in the lobby for voting for a Ministerial measure, and then a charge regularly made for such corruption under the title of "head money,"—(Hear, hear.) All that was now asked from the Right Hon. Gentleman whe had filled that office was a pair."—(A laugh.) Sir, I shall not touch for a mo ment on the third point, short Parliaments. No one can sup pose that short Parliaments would occasion less expendi ture of the public revenue than long Parliaments. Moreover, I shall net say a word against; the practice of triennial Par liaments, because it is a part of that old Tory creed which I have consistently supported.—(Oh, oh, and cheers.) Did not; Sir William Wyndham support triennial Parliaments against a corrupt Whig Minister ?—(Hear, hear)—and I:am happy to see indications amongst the movements of the people of this country which show that they are prepared to rally round that part of the Tory creed.. The only reason why I object to it now is, that no Honourable Gentleman has shown us the paramount necessity for a change. But no one can for a moment suppose that the substitution of a system of triennial Parliaments can have the least effect on our policy or legislation.—(Hear, hear.) And, there fore, I now come to the fourth point, which I admit is one of very great importance. I allude to the proposition for elec toral districts. The Hon. Member for Montrose entered into some details on the subject. I owe to the kindness of a gen tleman, who is unfortunately no longer a Member of this House, my possession of the manifesto of the new party upon that subject. Sir Joshua Walmsley was so kind as to place in my hands this publication, which he told me was the manifesto of the new party.---( Hear, hear, and laughter.) I promised to give it as candid a consideration and attention as possible. From this publication it would seem that the county of Buckingham, which is said to produce ati annual rental of 674,000/., sends eleven Members to Par liament; whilst Lancashire, with an annual produce of 5 ,000,000/., sent only twenty Members to Parliament. Now I admit that Buckingham has none of those great advan tages that attend the towns of the Manchester school' •; but Buckingham refused to pay the ship money, and car ried the grand remonstrance, and since the settlement of our Parliamentary Constitution, in 1640, I believe Buck inghamshire has furnished this House with a series of statesmen (Laughter) with a series of statesmen— (Cheers)—such as have contributed more than the Members sent from any ether county to create the empire , sustain the renown, and c h er i sh the high spirit of the English, people.—(Cheers.) Buckinghamshire, however humbly it may now be represented, has sent to the House Commons Hampden, Grenville, the elder Pitt, and rke—(Loud cheers.) Now I ask the House, is it to be tolerated th r a e t di a, population which, for centuries, have sustaity the honour, and prosperity of England in such an em c inen t t , degree, shall be destroyed for the purpose of adding t to w t n he legislative importance of some great manufacturing born in a day, and perhaps vanishing in a day ? h o ise I see a great deal in these days about realised capital; bat,,, ra') Sir, one of the most important elements in constructing suffrage of an ancient people is the realised experience of the nation—(Hear, hear)—and to suppose that you can 'and; denly deprive a great section of the nation of those political rights which th ey h ave exercised with honour andprospe rity to themselves and to the nation at large for centuries, may probably lead to a civil war. Unworthi yl as Bucking hamshire may now be represented, I beg the House, in con sidering thi s quest i on, to remember the great men through ghwhom it has heretof ore h a d a voice in Parliament Now,l will show yo u w h o are the great men ( we' sitid ares th = e u tnan en ticipae, from Manchester, f or example. H e r e_Honourable ntleman, holding up Mr. Mackay's p stheamp hlet) this i manifesto of the new p ar t y. Mr. HUME—That publication was printed befbre ever any party was formed. Mr. DISRAELI—That exactly confirms what was told me by Sir Joshua Walmsley, that it was accepted and accr4- dited; and. in fact, that this pamphlet was the origin of the new party.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.) The great question which the new party had to deal with, was, where were they to g e t a leader ?—(Laughter.) The doctrines of the party had been laid down. Here is the patiaPh l 4 by Alexander Mackay, of the Middle. Temple, The ideas broached in it are, to be sure, strange and novel, 'hut, then there is all the more reason that they should have an expo • rienced leader. They must have a secretary--a Managing man—a whip for the new moiement.—(Hear, heir, and laughter.) We have the electoral districts all carved out s at least upon paper. Manchester is to have seven instead of two Members of Parliament Now, only think of that.— ( Great laughter.) "Why, Sir, since we have been in our dreary opposition, there has been, no doubt , from many pecu liar circumstances, only one Member for Manchester.—(Loud laughter.) My Right Hon.. Friend has not said much either as a Member ,of tha,Administration, or divested of that ' position, although he has appeared in both characters during the present session. —(A laugh.) My Right Hon. Friend has been silent, or virtu/illy there has been but one Member for. Manchester. There is difficulty enough at present. It is hard enough to 'Ate* ' , One Member in order. But, Sir, if we are to haase seven—if there are to be seven- Richards in the felt}-..(Roars of laughter)—we must retire from , the contest. Only think of having to reply night after night, and one after another, to these seven Manchestei Ilembers.—(Renewed laughter.) Why, the bare idea over powers one. It would require one of the Parliamentary giants of ,a bygone period to cope with so Herculean a task. But then Liverpool and Glasgow are to have the same number. Conceive Liverpool and Glasgow each with seven- Members —( Laughter)—all statistical 'Members. (Roars of laughter.) And then Dublin is to have six. Now, as there is always a petition against the Members for Dublin, there will be constantly as a matter of course, six petitions to be tried.—(Renewed laughter.) Well, then, Birmingham and Leeds are to ha ve fi ve Members, and Bristol and Sheffield four, and the metropolis is to return upwards of forty Members.—( Hear, and laughter.) Such is a part of the new system which we are called upon to carry out. This new constitution is to confer as many Members for London as all Scotland has at present, and the pamphlet asserts that London is entitled to them in consequence of its population and wealth. The only objection to the new scheme is, that when we get the men together, we may, indeed, have some thing called the House of Commons, but then, unfortunately, this House of Commons will, probably, be neither able to' overn themselves nor the country, and the country would :lot probably obey them.—{Hear, hear.) It is very easy to form these plans, but their working out is quite another matter. Why not go the whole length of the Honourable Member for Oldham ( Mr. Fox), and have universal suffrage at once, for his speech led to that? We , . have sufficient experience to know—recent experience—that in a country, however civilised, however educated, when you elect all the Members by universal suffrage, the people may, after all that, laugh in their face. - (Hear, hear.) What has happened in a National Assembly in a neighbour ing country? And Parliament is to be elected by this con stitution? Sir, I say at once, as it is the fashion to lay down principles, that there is no such thing as governing any European country, except by ancient and traditionary influence, and great properties round which men may rally. —(Loud cheers.) These gentlemen may succeed—they are doubtless sincere. I predict no results from their theory which I do not think inevitably flow from it, but I will again warn them that without traditionary influences and large properties, it -would be impossible to govern England or any European country; and feeling in this manner, and having experience to guide me, they cannot blame me if I ' prefer the liberty which we enjoy to the liberalism which is promised—(Hear, hear) —and think there is something better than the rights of man, and that is the ri g hts of Eng lishmen.—(Loud cheers.) I have now attempted to demon strate that the measure proposed is crude, unsatisfactory, and daegeeernneats, measures —what does not, in fact, satisfy the longings real popular show g'i i n country.—(Hear, every thing I haveOrwe this hear.) Now, I want to the House what is the real character and object of es--what they will lead to, and what are its concessions in so' --.fact—that although all go to prove this eyes of the people—ve they may call ; . d B ir—everything I have heard, and a popular movement—although they flume House to observe ;hears m e Paints —though they may throw dust in the less than a middle - l t way of legislative movement.—(Hear.) I beg the that, after all, this is nothing more or entethis class has already done in the posed for a moment, meaning anything dis in rp ?- But do not let me be anythingsup as I say of the middle classes, House more thorough! respectful to them—no one hi the and their great achievlneanPP e for human ' a w n h d a what theya opposed have ton any class theta reiates the urban population am well acquainted with attire and for civilization, t,Aftrlr success, desires to be predominant.—(Hear, hear.) we are under some frankobligations avowal—theirt o ambition s concealed.--(Hear, opposite for their hear.) They say th e middle class 'P ossesses supe rior intelligence and wea l t h , and it ought to have superior power. They tell us th at the great towns the north of England ought t o govern the o ing given us such fair warnin g o f their intention n s, rrY le . t mHe arve mind them and the country o f t h e consequenceslfiethei; former attempts in great legi s l a ti ve enterpr i ses. was the abolition of the slave trad e , a measure that first alas carried in total ignorance of the subje c t. Th at was your first experiment at colonial reform. And the a b o li t i on of the slave trade ended in great disasters. and involved us in great peril and difficulty, entirely from the crude manner in which the affair was consummated. Well, next comes the Reform Bill. I need not prove how they failed in Parliamentary reform. The speeches on the other side of the House to-night, and, indeed, the motion itself, clearly este.- blishes that failure.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, Sir, they tried their hands at commercial reform, and carried it. It is plain to any one that in that measure the interests of the capitalists were completely studied, and the interests of the labouring population whoolly overlooked.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then the reform of the colonies was a failure—the re form of Parliament was a failure—the commercial reform was a failure. Colonial reform has ended in colonial ruin. Parliamentary reform has been, by your confession, a de cided failure, and as for the effects of commercial reform, I have only to appeal to the pictures which you yourselves are continually drawing of the present state of England.— (Hear, hear.) And what is the remedy for all this disap pointment ? A new scheme, which is to give seven Members to Manchester and finance reform. The Noble Lord at the head of the Government expressed his opinion that this is not a popular movement. In that I agree with him. The Hon. Member for Montrose says there was no agitation until the Noble Lord said the people did not want reform, showing the recent and unsubstantial character of the agitation—hav ing its rise in the captious expression of a Minister. But I will tell the House how this affair has been arranged. In consequence of the organization and agitation of England by the middle classes a new profession has sprung up in this country. The profession to which I allude was the result of the organization necessary to carry out a great question. Sir. a new profession has arisen, and that is the profession of agitation,—(Cheers and laughter.) Well, Sir, when Hon. Gentlemen cheer, do they deny my assertion? Do they recollect the observation— " Quemves hominum aecum attulit ad nos. Grammaticus, Rhetor, Geometres, Pictor, Aliptes Augur, Schcenobates, Medici Magi. omina novit Grveculus esuriens in ccelum jusseris ibit." —(Roars of laughter.) Perhaps 1 am wrong in saying that profession is new to us. It is new to us. It existed in a eountry, as this passage shows, as powerful, and, perhaps, much more corrupt than England is at this moment. It is this new profession, Sir, which produces what are called "great questions," but when a great question is carried, it is the ruin of the profession. —(Great laughter.) The chairman has no chair to fill—the deputy-chairman cannot represent his Hon. Friend—the committeeman has no business—the pamphleteer has no pamphlet to write—the lecturer is idle, and the orator is silent.—(Renewed laughter.) Therefore the instant a great question. is passed, the " profession" is all anxiety to find out another great question.—(Great laughter.) I believe one of the most cruel things which the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth ever did was to have curtailed the labours of the profession too soon. Before the ship comes into the harbour another should always be looming in the distance.—(Cheers.) After the last great exploit of the middle classes—free imports, ludicrously called free trade—the " profession" felt restless and hungry. The Hon. Member for the West Riding having accomplished his purpose, like a great man, went abroad.—(A laugh.) The profession should look about for a new question—a great one of course—the one they turned up was "perpetual peace," which they were fortunate enough to bring forward just on the eve- of universal war.—(Great laughter.) It was a fatal mistake, and therefore, after one or two foolish speeches, the question was coolly shelved. And, Sir, the profession would have been at an utter loss but for this fortunate pamphlet.—(Laughter.) We have now the great question of electoral districts, for the old ones of extension of the suffrage were quite " used up," and it was this plan of carving the country into districts that gave a dash of novelty and zest to the whole thing. The originators felt their way like the most delic ate artists, and used the utmost finesse and dexterity, well knowing that there was no kind of enthusiasm amongst the people for the project. It is headed the "New Reform Movement." I may state that I take this report from a newspaper that is the re cognised organ of the new party, and avows itself to be so. " New League Movement in Manchester.—lt is well known that the members of the Anti •Corn-law League have ; ever since the dissolution of that (body, held occasional meetings in Manchester." Did we not hear it constantly repeated that the Anti-Corn-law Association was entirely confined to that sole purpose? But now we gee that, ever since their last great success, they' have been holding occasional meet ings, not knowing what to do.--(Laughter.) This is their own account of the matter :—" Newhall-buildings, the locus quo of which has already become famous, and the site of which will h erea f ter b e sedulously traced by the, local historian and the antiquary, is likely to have its celebrity still farther enhanced by a new movement, of which a pre liminary meeting was recently held. It was attended by Mr. R. Cobden, Mr. Bright, Mr. Kershaw, Mr. J. B. Smith. George Wilson, Esq., , th e Ch a i rman of the Anti-Corn -l aw League, presided.' The meeting which, we are told, was private, and w as merely preliminary, was intended 0 colledt the opinions of its members as to household stiffrate, trien nial Parliaments, and equal electoral districts Ihtr saingdnedappblayutshe.e)chlatirwamans , u s ti o m ul a d te b l .e y foargwreateddedehat• circular, supported the free -trade , movement;. that in b :thi all s way. the public opinion might be obtained with regard is the points. under discussion. Public opinion, therefore, did not 'give them the points--(Chee r s)--with a view that decided mea sures might aft erwar d s be taken by the public at large. The following is the circular referred to : " Dear number , of gentlemen have met hereto-day to consider what steps should be taken to• promote a more cordial union of all classes of reformers in favour of an im provement in our system of Parliamentary representation. Theyfeel that increasing public expenditure and increasing taxation are causes of the ~dietpeSt anxiety, and they doubt the possibility of any inspenent remedy being applied whilst the taxpayers are for the most part excluded from direct influence in Parliament, I have been requested to ad dress this circular.teSeu 0 ascertain how far you think the extension of the franchise to all householders, with the pro tection of the ballet, the more equal distribution of the elec..' toral power by - means of electoral districts, and the shortening of the duration of Parliaments to a period not exceeding three years, would a system of representation such n es e the l middle glasses, now partially enfranchised, would e g acquieace in—(Laughter)—and which the unenfranchised to nn their e silh l i . -classes would accept as a substantial admission _ Jimate etaqe:ln the Constitution. I shall be glad also to kniew.,,*ether you think that at the present time a move- Ment,iisleiirable—(Great cheering and laughter)—in favour o - t o h p e e r e a h t a e b g w e i s t with an a' l a s e i s n o d c a c a t e o n d f a o n u d n d i e f d y f o o u r are the d p i u s P r pso ° o o sed to c promoting them. I shall be glad, also, to ktiow what, so far as you have ascertainbd, is the prevailing feeling of which inhabitants of your town or district on the subject to I have referred.—(Shouts of 'Hear, hear.' )he T earliest con venience. hlrepdli willesto this circular will not be published—(Laughter) thank you an " to favour me with an answer at your inguis e, h d for that gentleman who To this docume m nt I th w er i e ll i n s o a t pp ea en l d l e gis t t he signature of a o l f wi t l h l the ay w ortdhesowneoutfkrinoousw,nfor Georgeth at n o g wn fro to m th th e e ll ir o o ns w e n , would d be e e offensive; prostitution nt -N w V it i r io u n r ( the llea sli r g ' h h tes ear t . exa ll gge w rat l ion h , a q v u e o s ti h. documents, the way in which these things are got up.— (Cheers.) But the remarkable circumstance in the present movement is this, that it has not in the slightest degree originated With any class of the people, even if the people had been misled; for it is possible that there may be a po paha. movement, and that movement an erroneous one. But, this movement is an erroneous one, and it is not popular.—(Cheers.) The moral I draw—observing this system of organized agitation—this system of playing and falteting with the popular passions for the aggrandise ment of one too ambitious Class—the moral I draw is,this, Why should the people of England be forced to ,find their leaders in these persons? The proper leaders of the people of England are the gentry of England.—(Cheers.) Unless they are leaders I see no reason why they should be gentry. ,—(Renewed cheering.), ,It is because lion. Gentlemen are negligent of their duties—it is because they areSinmindful of the duties of their high station—that this system of pro fessional agitation, so ruinous to the best interests of the country, has arisen in England. It was not always sb. Honourable Gentlemen call themselves the country party- That was the' name once of an English perty who were the foremost. to vindic a t e th e popular OOP- They were the natural leaders of the people—the champions of everything that was natural and popular. ton May blame yourselves t and yourselves alone, if you have allowed the .power.whieh was entrusted to you by , the constitution to slip oat of your hands, and to be exproisedifor me stn and purposes other than the general good and the national powre. When Sir William Wyndham was the leader of tit country party, do yon think diet he would have allowed any chairman, or deputy-chairman, or hired lecturers, or pam • phleteers, to deprive him of the hold he had upon the heart and feelings of the people of England? Do you think that he would have suffered a measure to be brought forward in this House as a class movement, mad upon the avowed basis of establishing for one class a predominance in these lands ?—(Loud cheers.) Read Sir John Hinde Cotton's speech on the motion for extending the suffrage in the time of Sir Robert Walpole. He was one of the foremost of the country party, and he never thought of pairing off at half past eleven o'clock at night, and allowing his country to be ruined.—(Cheers.) This I must impress upon the minds of Hon. Gentlemen, that if we are, as we may be, on the eve ot troublous times—if it is necessary that great changes should be made in the consti tution ot the country, let these changes be effected by the natural leaders of all popular movements—(Lond cheers)— and then we shall find that these changes are not carried into effect to accomplish the purposes of a middle-class :Govern ment, but the purpcses ot an English Government—a national Government —a Government of which we may be justly proud and in which we may place full confidence. If we are .called upon to effect large changeS, the power to effect them will then still remain within the scope and objects of the constitution. Because, notwithstanding the sneers of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, I am notashamed to sav that I am ready to maintain the Ez.glish constitution. I do not mean by that merely the English House of Com mons, and still less any particular party in the House of Commons, which some Honourable Gentlemen seem to con iider as comprising the whole of the English constitution. — (Cheers.) But I would carry into effect the chatiges that- Tuay be necessary in the spirit of the English constitution-- that large and liberal spirit which would allow of ail changes that are necessary, and yet would maintain the in.. stitutions of the country. I would not maintain the con- - stitution merely because it is swayed by an ancient mo narchy, mitigated by the power of a co-ordinate popular e uate, not because that constitution has planted the tree of En2lish liberty broad and deep in the land, .or because it is not dependent upon the will of an individual or the caprice and passion of 'a great city, nor would I maintain the constitution merely beeauga •it secures due administration of justice, safety for person, and respect for propetty—though these are all great and im portant considerations—but I would maintain it, because of all existing politics, it is the constitution which most tends to promote the happiness and elevate the condition of the great body of the people.—(Loud and prolonged cheering.) Mr. OSBORNE moved that the debate be adjourned.— (" Oh, oh," and cries of " Go on.") Mr. F. MACKENZIE asked if any arrangement had been come to for another night to continue the debate, as he found there was not another open night for it until the 19th of July ?—( Hear, hear.) If, therefore, Hon. Gentlemen op posite adjourned now, it looked as if they were ranning away from a division on their own motion.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. FIUME said he did not wish to run away from the motion, and appealed to the Government to give him an other night. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said in the present state of the public business he could not comply with the request, but he had no object& that the House should go on with the eebate.—(Cheers.) Mr. COBDEN thought the Government must see that this question excited one hundred times more interest than the West India debate.—(" Oh, eh," and cheers.) He ad mitted there was a difficulty in having so many adjourned questions, and the only remedy he thought would be, either by a tacit understanding or by a resolution of the House, to limit the length of Hon. Member's speeches. The gallery was then cleared for a division on the motion for adjournment, but none took place, and the debate wan adjourned nominally till Friday next. VAN DIEMEN'S LAND. Mr. C. ANSTET;enewed his motion from yesterday, far the papers connected with the dismission of the Judges in Van Diemen's Land. An BON. MEMBER moved that the House be counted, and only 34 Members being present, the House adjourned at a Quarter before Two. INDIA AND CHINA. Dispatches have been received from Marseilles in antici pation of the overland Bombay mail of the 12th ult. The intelligence, although partly anticipated by our last advices, published on the 12th instant, is of great interest. It gives the details of the murder of the two British officers at Moulton, the capital of Le western district of the dominions if Lahore. Moulton was taken by Runjeet Singh in 1818, and isnowthinare remarkable " city an o affe f :P°.. th -r the ri se i v im ere o s f tr in ug e g re le i:an l di t s has e, i.ag been re kingdom. The Governor of Moultan had been for some time consi dered to be disaffected towards the Seikh rule. He was desired to settle his accounts and pay *up his arrears. This order he, having paid a visit to Lahore, contrived by intrigues to baffle. A successor was named to take his place, and two young officers—viz., Mr. Vans Agnew of the Bengal Civil Service, and Lieutenant Anderson, of the Bombay Fusileers, accompanied the newly-appointed Gover nor, Khan Singh, to Moulton. They left Lahore on the sth of April, and reached their destination on the 18th of that month. They were well received by the old Gover nor, Dewan Moolraj, who showed them the fort. A quarrel, however, was picked with some of their followers, and both of the Englishmen were wounded. Seeing themselves about to be massacred by treachery, they retreated with khan Singh and their escort to a small fort outside the walled.town of Moultan, where for twenty-four hours they considc themselves protected, b u t th e t roops f rom Moultan hstst to attack the fo r t. Li eu t . A n d erson being sever y wounded, was unable to rise from his bed ; Mr. Vans Agnew shook h an d s w ith hi m, an d bade h im an eternal adieu. He then prepared to defend himself, but his pistols had been tampered with, and as the crowd of sol diers with which his escort had " fraternized " entered the room, he drew his sword and cat down the first assailant, but he was instantly shot, and his body, like that of his com panion Lieutenant Anderson, and that of thtir apothecary. Mr. Wilkinson, h ac k e d t o p i eces , an d treated-Mth every 4n dignity. The new Governor, Khan Singh, was wounded, and made prisoner by the troops of Moulton. This insurrection is calculated to produce dangerous conse quences, for the Dewan Moolraj will be joined by all the dis affected and turbulent men of the late Seikh army, who were dismissed at the time of the conquest. The season was adverse to campaigning, for the heats in that part of the Pusjaub are intolerable in the months of May, June, July, August and September. Orders were instantly. issued at Lahore to send a corps of the army down to Moultan (a dis tance of 200 miles); but they were countermanded, when the death of the two officers was proved. It was said on the day of the departure of the mail that a force of four regiments would be dispatched from Bom bay to Kurrachee ; but it was feared that they would not be able to reach that place, in consNuence of the south-west monsoon, which was then approaching. The Indus was then in a fit state for being navigated by the steamers and flat-bottomed boats, which could come within one mile and a half of Moultan by going up the Chenaub (Acesines). Captain Christopher, who commands the flotilla on the Indus, and who is well acqua i nte d w i t h the river, and who b ed gone up the Chenaub near to Moultan, was to proceed to kurrachee from Bombay on the 13th of May. There was a number . ' of boats ready at different stations on the Indus, and a heavy battering train was ready at Sukkur, which could be con veyed with speed to attack Moulton. The only want was af time to prepare the expeditions before the monsoon shall have set in. • There is no:doubt that proper arrangements will be adopted f or havin g two strong corps sent to subdue the rebels, th e one f rom Ferozepore and the other from Kur rachee, as soon as the season will allow the troops to move. Various absurd rumours were current respecting a combi nation amongst the Seikh troops, and other disaffected mountain tribes, t o e mbarrass tae British authorities, but there was no foundation for these reports. The feelin gsof the people of even the "Moulton districts are favourable to the British, and no apprehension is entertained of the disaffection gaining ground. • In other parts of India peace prevails. Oude isshevrever, di s t ur bed; and may require to be managed by the British authorities. In the Nizam's territory there are hopeaenter tained of amelioration, as the Sovereign and Resident aresst last on terms and are willing to introduce good measures. Mr. Clerk, the ex-Governor of Bombay, took - his departure from that place on the 6th of May, sincerely regretted. Lord Falkland, who was sworn into office on the Ist, had reco vered from his indisposition, and 'was- to hold a levee on the 13th of May. The management of the Indian navy engrossed mnch'kt tention at Bombay, especially subsequent to the suicide of Mr. Purser Harrison, who attributed all his misfortunes- to ' his superiors: He had been dismissed for neglect of duty as Deputy-Superintendent of the Stores. The affairs of the Union Bank continued to be discussed at Calcutta, but with little prospect of a satisfactory terfnis nation. The late disturbances at Surat were still the subject of much animadversion at Bombay. The Government had sent a high civil servant to examine into the facts And- to present a report thereon. A strict inquiry is necessitry. Advice., from Hong Kong are to the 29th of April; The Peninsular and Oriental Company's steamer Pottinger had arrived late at night of the 22d, bringing dates from Lon* of the 26th of February, and the first intelligence of th *rm. lution in Paris, and the abdication of Louis Philippe. In Canton general quiet prevailed; sz unprovoked attack by some Chinese on two foreigners, as they were proceeding io a Hong boat to visit the warehouses of their 'principals, met With summary redress on the representation of her Majesty's Consul, and the Chinese were taken and punished . by exposure in the " cangue," &c. Trade continued mactide, but there appeared no want of money. Her Majesty's steamer Fury returned from Shanghai to Hong-Kong on the 21st, bringing dates thence to April 130 t. The demands made by the consul for the delivery of the ring leaders in the attack on the three English missionaries, had been complied with, and the parties were identified and punished; the Toutsi of shanghai had been dismissed for his supineness in the business; and aMandarin, Sump * . formerly a merchant at Canton, had been appointed to suc ceed him. This affair h as thus been sati s f actorily brought toa term i na tion, to which, no doubt, the dispatch of her Majesty's sliip Espiegle to Nankin, with h ow Majesty's Vice-Consul, largely contributed. Some slighkdt monstration was made by some idlers:as a the officers and Mt ' darins were passing through' the streets ; but the' pardon were immediately apprehended and 'punished by exposure in the cangue." The Espiegle returned safely to Sh e in2- hai, and proceeded to N gpo, leaving Ear Irtij e ship Childers, Captai n Pit man, at Shanghai• Her - jesty's ship Scout remains at Foochowfoo, and her Me jesty's ship Columbine at Amoy. Her Majesty's steamer Medea is stationed at Whampoa; and the Pluto at Canton. Her Majesty's ship Mehimpus, Captain Campbell, senior officer, and her Majesty's steamer Fury, r emain i n Hong-Kong harbour. It is reported his Excellency Gover nor Bonham intends - having an interview with the Viceroy at the Bogue in a few days. The latest dates received at Hong-Kong are—from Cal cutta, March 8 ; Madras, March 14 , ; Bonabals; March 1$; Singapore, April 13; Manilla, April..9.a ~i.,Awrt -- • ~ f Fitt ,flSk./US • COURT CIRCVLAI4,i t bs. o, The Queenand Prince Albert tihj i lsAn, • tor day in an open carriage and' 'Mir. e is Waiting, Colonel Buckley and 'Colonelltonv *lire /a attendance on horseback. —act : His Royal Highness Princl.44iwrt visitedhia Royal Highness tht Duke of Cambridge ,yesterday, at Cam. bridge House. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited the Queen yesterday, at Buckingham Palace. The. Prince of Wales, the Princess Royal, and the Princess Alice, took an airing yesterday in a carriage and tour. Prince Alfred, ,the Princess Helena, and the Princess Louisa, took Jairings in the gardens. of. Use Palace. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge hon9eind tha performance at her Majesty's Theatre petards", *Tatung:with kis presence.