The Sun. — London, England, 1852-06-08 00:00:00

the usual application to the Treasury to transfer an amount to net Poor-law Bort& This was an err o r which he (Sir J. Trollepe) would tek good care should not happen agein, for the check lie hel put upoe one Mode of paying the accounts rendered its recurrence itn- Possible. He mutt sly, however, that the otlieer who transacted the business of this department was a very old and valuable servant of the public, having been in the Public service. for about eighteen years without ever making a similar tnistente—(dear, hettr)--enn he Caw J. Trollops) really thought it was hardly worth while to trouble the House with such a subject.—(Hear, hear.) At all events he believed the House would agree with him that it was not a matter which called for the censure of that House upon her Majesty's Govern ment.—(Bear, and Laugh.) THE BRITIntI AMERICAN RAILWAY. Sir U. VERNEY wished to ask the Colonial t.:siecre tart' wheth er th e l e tt er a dd res sed to him on May 1 by the Hon. Mr. Hin c k s , and which was published in the rmes of May 31, was authentic; and, if it was, whether or ex he Was abl e to give to the House any information planation of the circumstances under which it was written? Sir J. PAKINGTON—I can assure the Hon Baronet who has put this cpiestion to me, that so far from hey jug any objection to answer it, I feel gre ttly indebted to him f or h av i ng efforded me art opportunity of giving the e xp l anat i on ho has requested. The letter to which the Hon. Baronet has adverted is founded entirely upon a mistake. I have no knowledge how that letter found its way into the public prints, and I must say I think I • have reason to express at least surprise that such a let. ter, forming part of a series of correspondence, should have been inserted in the newspapers of this country without any of the documents that preceded or followed ito--(a_Tear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) Th e natural result of the insertion of such a letter in the Papers, without any explanation of what preceded or followed it, has been, that most erroneous inferences have been drawn, and that very wrong impressions have a gained currency with regard to the circumstances which preceded and followed the writing of that letter. It ap pears to me that the complaints against the conduct of the Government are three in number. The first com plaint is, that the deputation which carne over to this country from Canada on the subject of the proposed railway were left for seven weeks without any answer. It is next complaieed, that when en answer was given it was not conamuuicated officially to the gentlemen who formed the deputation to this country, bat was obtained by them through a private channel. The third complaint is, that the gentlemen who came here as a deputation from the provinces of Canada and New Brunswick were not treated with that consideration and confidence to which their position in their own country entitled them. Now, if the House will favour me with their attention for a few moments, I think I shall be able to show how far thesis complaints are well founded. With regard to the first complaint, that the gentlemen forming the deputation were left for seven weeks without an answer from the Government, I Must beg permission to refer to dates. Mr. Hincks ar rived in this country, as a delegate from Canada on this subject, ab ou t th e middle of March. Directly after his arrival I had several interviews with him relative to the proposed railways, and in those inter views he communicated to me the views of the pro l'n'tnce of Canada. He also stated to me that he was one s" a deputation of three gentlemen, and that the arrival nt of Mr. Ch an dl er f rom N ew B r unswick, and of Mr. Uowe from Nova Scotia, might be expected by the next I ac ket. Under these circumstances, I considered—and think the House will deem I was justified in consider jug —that the negotiation was not to be proceeded with Math the deputation was complete—(Hear, hear)—espe eially as Mr. Chandler and Mr. Howe were to bring w ith them from New Brunswick and Nova Scotia the Act that had been passed upon this subject by the Legis laturestares of th ose co l on i es . I ma d e frequent inquiries TrOm ti me to time whether those gentlemen had arrived, andi I w as to l d that they had not yet reac h e d E ng l an d, ant thatSO thi they might b e expected by the next packet. things went on until the 20th of April, on which day b ctr . Chandler ca ll e d a t t h e C o l on i e lsoffitte. I believe he ad arrived some f ew d ays b e f ore, b ut I did not k now Mr. H owe. h owever, ha d not arr i ve d , so d I oug h t ttere th mention that the two Acts of the colonies did 4noit arrive until the 23th of April. On the 26th of April a etter was written by Mr. iiineks to the Noble Lord ;.,‘_the head of the Government, requesting an interview I " himself and Mr. Chandler upon this suject. I think S ea l show the House how little the Noble Lord (the 0 11 of Derby) was disposed to underrate the importance int this a sseputation by reading to them the memorandum x, the handwriting of the Noble Lord at the back of Mr` Hitteks's letter. It is,— of I : Give him an early appointment. This matter is one vere s .1 great importance, but I should wish, if possible, to see , this `') together with Mr. Hincks, the representatives in T he matter of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia." an ° Noble the Lord's secretary mado anappowas able to see s ° gentlemen ; and on that day the Noble Lord re ef-led Mr. Hincks and Mr. Chandler, and at the request th MY Noble Friend I was present. At that interview innt "hole subject was talked over, and on the very next s e 7li mg—the Ist of Mav—Mr. Hicks wrote the letter to illeh the lion. Baronet has referred, and in the early Pt tearr " that letter Mr. Hincks says, alluding to the in view of the previous day— "e„ left his .Lo r d s hip in the confident hope that I should ad,: etv e an early communication of the intention of her J e st Y's Gov ernmen t." fir 'ii r Flineks th en goes on to say that the arrival of Howe could havo no effsct on the question of route only ior one raised by her Majesty's Government. and H ow e had no t t h en arr i ve d, an d h e d i d not come; the !lats lett er o f M r. Hi nc k s, o f t h e Ist o f M ay, was be hint intimation I received that the two other mem la" the deputation considered the presence of Mr. ou proceedthportant to the negotiation. I immediately ht t ,n n ed to act upon that intimation, and at the Ca of 14 n;neil held on the following Saturday, the Bth forme d ' -- tho matter having previously, of course, t Go e , the subject of conversation among the whole question was formally brought decided.the Cabinet, was fully discussed, and was finally ar j h ope the statement I have made will l' e o ve that there was no pretext whatever for city .s t hat the deputation was left without an answer from :' f ault of her Majesty's Government. It ha s been n -°l° Plained that, after the Cabinet had decided the , I "stion, no communication was made to th e ge ntlemen Inning the deputation, but that they learned the deci sion of the Government incidentally through a private Source, Now, .owing to the great pressure of business .. " --3 11d I trust the House will make allowance for the en ormous pressure of business that did occur in the ° e ine() to which I have the honour 'to be attached—, days elapsed after the Cabinet Coueeil arrived at their decision before I was at leisure to pre pare a di s p atc h on the subject. In consequence of that e u elay, and of subs equent delays dfter the dispatch was uraughted i the dispatch was not finally written for itaoksending until the 20 t h o f M ay. I should say that Mr. - a had: previousl y in timated his intention not to leave England until the 27th of May, and he did not go until a much later period. Oa the 20th of Meiy t , te dispatch was sent t o t h e Governors of the three colonies of Ceneda, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia ; and (Li the same day, by my directions, official copies of that dispatch wore communicated to Mr. Rinclts and Mr. Chandler. In the meantime I had made no communication, public or private, upon th es subject to any party; aid if either of these gentle m" had indirectly ascertained the decision of the G tr iatetnt, I cannot say how they got the information. It i e rtainly was not through any act of mine. I hope I 'aye answered the second allegation.—(Hear, hear.) note come to the third subject of complaint—that th e se gentlem en were not treate d w i t h t h e co nsider a tion to which their position entitled them. I should be ex tretady sorry if i t s h ou ld b o t h oug h t t h at t h e Govern , Mont were for a mo ment open to such an imputation. On the arrival o f M r. Hincks I had several interviews with tin• ?, and I extended to him that courtesy and hospi, wily which I thought were duo to his distinguished station in his own province. I have been told that I O ught to h ave resented his letter. There certainly are ex pressions in th at l etter which have the appearance of having been written under some feelings of irritation-- expressions whi c h I t hi nk are not borne out by the facts—expressions which I read with regret, and which cannot help thinking Mr. Ilineks must regret having Used. But, Sir, I must say that, looking to the fact that the greater part of these letters were written in a tone perfectly respectful, I have no hesita tion in avowing to the House my feeling, that if unconsciously and unintentionally, under the pressure of business, which really is sometimes almost overwhelming, I had—l am sure lam not aware that I had—been guilty of any omission towards these gentle- Men, I thought it more consistent with my duty to the Queen, with my own office, and with the friendly rela tions. which I hope will always subsist between the great C olony of Canada and the mother country—(Hear, hear) that I should continue to act in the same spirit of Courtesy as before, rather than go out of my way and tit • Is t ," Offence, or make any quarrel on the subject. — rear. hear.) That was the spirit in which lam die . Ir c ' Be d to act towards these gentlemen, but it should bo recollected that Mr. Hincks was not the only person etteaceriton It would not be correct to d r a w an y distine . C ° ls il e „ b l e ,'Weela Mr. Chandler and Mr. Mocks, but me. written no petulant letter. He is a gnin chp-pess o ntitiguished by great ability, a teen of high Z, ae ler, and ono who, like Mr. Hieeks, has, by the isis, 3 t ift . (If his own talent, raised himself to the highest geet y e 'M in the colony. I most readily admit that these en men were entitled to every consideration in this e m "„" n try at the hands of her Majesty's Government, and e f c r it _°Piaiort is that they received it. I continued, to the the of their stay in this country, the same hospitality, rne , s s attle Courtesy,. with which our intercourse corn'. d et ueed, and I had reason to believe they were oes'PlY impressed by the gracious and spontaneous con ut. I ". 3 nsion they received at the hands of her Majesty. 43 he close of their stay they called at the Colonial ii)ceffi to take leav e , en d w e parted on the most f r i en dl y an y v, and certainly I had no reason to believe there was c a'nee taken on their part.—(Hear, hear.) I t a p e e live said enoug h to show that the allegation of d e l a y a eto the Part of the Government is unfounded, and thatn w e=e n willing to treat these gentlemen with every due nsideration. In offering this explanation I have not t lo athed on the policy of her Majesty's Government with respect to the decision at which they arrived. The and u i neember's que s tion did not refer to that decision, easy? • er a i m sure the House will feel that the occasion of ferri ng 3 question is not the proper moment of re giv ng to such a subject.—(Hear hear.) The answer lit to these gentlemen was given on the responsibi- Pm ° I her Majesty's Government, and whenever the _ y per moment arrives I shall be prepared to vindicate ea whore it atiaece D, NOIIREYS asked the Secretary of the Ord n whether any a rrangement bad yet b een ma d e t o unable the public to purchase copies of tracings of the Published mane of t h e borough towns of Ireland? Colonel DUNNE replied that the Ordnance had no LONDON, hs reminded the House of the New Zealand Bill, the importance of which was only equalled by the number of its clauses, and said he expected that on Monday souse idea would be given by Government what their inten tions were with respect to that important Bill, I agree that it is a Bill of the utmost importance, and I should deplore the circumstance that this Bill, which attempts to establish a right principle of colonial administration, under happy auspices, should be defeated by any occurrence con nected with the abrupt termination of Parliament. But, Sir, what is the bulletin of Monday night upon this subject—that night upon which I was called upon to state exactly the intentions of Goverment with regard to public business? The New. Zealind Bill has not only got into Com mittee, but has nearly got through Committe?.—(Hear, hear.) In fact I may say, that out of more than 80 clauses, 72 have been disposed of, and, with the exception of some which refer to what may be almost called a private and a local subject, the great questions connected with this Bill, which is to give a new constitution to an interesting colony, the great questions are all settled in this House; and it is hardly possible to conceive that the state in which the New Zealand Bill is now found could at all justify her Ma jesty's Government in relinquishing the hope of speedily passing this Bill through the House.—( Hear.) Then there is another colonial measure, also referred to by the Right Honourable Gentleman—the Hereditary Casual Revenues Bill, which, to use the language of the Right Hon. Gentle man, is a measure of " primary importance." Now, perhaps, the House will allow me to remind them of the nature of this Bill. The law officers of the Crown have expressed their doubts, and more than doubts, whether these branches of casual revenue, which now assume very great importance in the auriferous colonies of Australia, might not be, by the 2. rict letter of the law, applicable to the consolidated fund, instead of being applied, as her Majesty's Government wished, to the benefitrof the colony in which they were disco vered. No one can doubt but that this is an object to attain which would not excite any very great party feeling, or re ceive any very great opposition; and when I mention that the Bill which is to confer this highly beneficial and ad vantageous privilege upon the colony is composed of only two clauses, it is not a very presumptuous expectation on the part of her Majesty's Government to hope that they may be as successful with it as they have hitherto been in that foremost Bill with regard to colonial legislation relating to New Zealand.— (Hear, hear.) There are two other Go vernment Bills which the Right llon. Gentleman referred to as connected with the colonies, and really, with the excep tion that the word " bishop" does appear in the titles of these Bills—and I know how unfortunate the word sometimes is in exciting debate in this House, and in calling forth the ;irre gular energy of the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal —(A laugh)—l should hardly suppose that there would be any opposition to these two Bills. Oneof them, the Bishopric of Quebec Bill, is in f act only to take care that in the diocese already divided one of the bishops should not retain the, whole of the episcopal property, but should divide it with his brother bishop, and I should hardly think that this measure would be opposed, more especially as it consists only of two clauses, and has already passed the other House of Parlia ment.— (Hear, hear.) I think, therefore, it is not rash to suppose that even that Bill may soon pass into law without at all procrastinating the conclusion of the session. There is a fourth Bill, called the Colonial Bishops Bill, and that is a mea sure which is also of very small dimensions, its only object being to relieve the Indian bishops from a disability which, in the case of the other colonial bishops, does not exist.. It is, therefore, a Bill essentially just in its provisions. It is one which I cannot say is of that urgent nature which, generally speaking, all the Bills are which her Majesty's Government have brought forward; but it is a Bill of a very important character, and yet very slight in its dimensions, and I hope it will receive the sanction of Parliament.— (Hear, hear.) I have now gone through two of the most important groups of projected legislation to which the Right Hon. Gentleman referred, but the colossal catalogue was not limited to these two groups. The next subject to which the Right Hon. Gen tleman alluded for those proofs of the unsatisfactory state of public business which he adduced, refers to the department which is presided over by my Noble Friend the President of the Board of Works. There are three Bills on the table of the House which have been placed there by my Noble Friend. The first of these is the Intramural Interment Bill, a Bill which, I believe, has the concurrence of a great majority in this House, and which it is the public wish, as weil as the wish of the majority of this House, should pass into law.--(Hear, hear.) lam not prepared, I confess, to re nounce the hope, not only of passing that Bill, but of passing it quickly, and with but slight opposition. There is also another Bill, the Metropolitan Water Bill; but re member that that Bill has already been referred to a Select Committee, and it comes down, therefore, to the House with the advantage of the criticism of that Select Commit tee, and the approbation of a tribunal to which the House always looks with great respect, and therefore I think I am warranted in believing that it can be passed without post poniog the termination of this session. —(Hear.) There is another Bill laid upon the table of the House, by my Noble Friend (Lord J. Manners),—the Metropolis Buildings Bill, and, as there seems such a keen desire to resist legislation on the part of some Hon. Gentlemen, from the fear that they may be overwhelmed with it, and, as it is necessary, in order to give Hon. members an opportunity of making any observations in reply, that I should conclude with some motion, I am prepared to move, at the proper time, that the order of the day for the second reading of that Bill might be discharged. —<" Hear," and a laugh.) I have now gone through three of the great di visions which the Right Hon. Gentleman brought to our notice. All our measures of legal rerorm are fast arriving at that safe harbour to which I believe they are destined. — (Hear.) All our colonial Bills have also made very great progress since the Thursday when the attention of the coun try and of the House was called to the unprecedented posi tisn of Parliamentary business • and of the two Bills which are under the charge of my Noble Friend the President of the Board of Works, one of them has been referred to a Se lect Committee, which, as I before said, will tend to make its progress through the House more rapid, and the other has received out of doors and in the Housesuch a degree of favour that I cannot doubt it will in due time pass into a law.— (Hear, hear.) Sir, there were, however, other circum stances in the state of public business on which the Right Hon. Gentl-man dilated in terms of impressive solem- nity, and which seemed to produce a considerable effect at the moment upon the feelings of the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman called the attention of the House of Com- objection to give the maps, but they could only employ those petious who were regularly engaged on the Irish er Scotch surveys to tualca the tracing_:. Tee OrduaDce were n ow obliged to pay Lill the modey they received for those maps icto the 'l'reasury, hut, if they re ceived a HUM of money for the purpow, they would be very happy to supply these r34pi to the country. THE CAPE. • Mr. ADDERLEY rose to :IA the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether thed ssn is i p g atc o h t - i t sj e us o t nst u i r tu ri t v io e n d from the Cep pa announced the ordinances, including the aherations of the franchise against which the Attorn , y-General protested; what information had been received relating to the rumoured advance of Przetorius against the Z 'ohs; and whether treaties were actually entered into with the Kafir chiefs for the termination of the war? The papers and letters just received were fall of the importance of the expres sions of Lord Derby last ye r, waen he said in the de bate on the Cep in the House of Lords,— " He might have hesitated to grant so large a measure of representative government as that now proposed to be granted to the colony, but he would say that, as such a proposal had been made on such high authority, and as it had obtained the sanction of the colony, and the im plied sanction of the Crown, any danger or risk was to be encountered rather than not to fulfil those expecta tiong; arid he would not bate one jet of the popular in stitutions prop )sed to be confided to the colony, however anxious he might he as to the working of those institu tioas in the first instance." He wished also to know if the. Government intended to carry out their legislation on the subject this session? Sir J. PAKINGTON said that the question of which the Honourable Member had given notice embraced three points, to which he bad added a fourth, and, in re plying, he (Sir J. Pakington) would take ahem seriatim. A s the Honourable Member had given notice of the question on Saturday, he presumed the Honourable Member referred to the accounts which came over a week ago with Sir Harry Smith, and he might not be aware that a mail had arrived this morning. By the mail of a week ago he (Sir J. Pakiegion) had received a dispatch from General Cathcart, stating that he had thought it to be his duty to pass the constitution ordi nances with the alterations made by the council; and by the mail of this morning he had received the ordinances themselves. As to the second question, he was very happy to be able to state that the rumoured advance of P;mtorius against the Zeiss not only remained without foundation, but that by the mail this morning he had re ceived the agreeable information that a convention had been agreed to bstween Prmtorius and her Majesty's Commissioners, and that peaceful relations had been established.—(Hear, hear.) As to the third question, whether treaties were entered into with the Kafir chiefs, he regretted to say he had no information that they ware, and he was afraid, from the dispatches received from General Cathcart, there was no reason to believe there would be. With respect to the fourth question, he did not know till a week ago that the ordinances had been sanctioned by the now Governor, and as the ordinances had only arrived this morning at the Colonial-office, he thought the Hon. Member would admit it would be ex tremely' premature for him to attempt to state now what were the intentions of her Majesty's Government on this subject.—(Hear.).... NAVAL RESERVE. Sir G. PECHELL wished to ask what steps had been taken to carry out the reserve of 5,000 men which had been provided for by a vote of the House? Mr. STAFFORD had to state, in reply, that no steps had been taken to carry out that system, and that, atter much consideration ard consultation among those best acquainted with the subject, it was considered the scheme was on the whole impracticable. PRUSSIA AND NEUFCHATEL. Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to ask whether any communications had been received by her Majesty's Government respecting a recent conference between the representatives of the great Powers of Europe, with re ference to the claims of Prussia upon Neufchatel; and, secondly, if the Noble Lord knew if there would be any objection to lay the papers on the table of the House. Lord STANLEY (who spoke in a still lower tone than Lord John Ru•-•soll, so that he was very indistinctly heard) was understood to reply that a conference had been held, and a protest signed by the representatives of the four groat powers, on the subject of the Prussian claims on Neufchatel. There was no doubt in the mind of Government, or, he believed, on the mind of any per son who had turned his attention to the subject, that Prussia had certain rights over Neufchatel, which rights bed been recognised by the treaty of 1815. It might not be altogether irrelevant to observe, as it was a fact of acme importance, that this was the first public act by which France, under her present ruler, had recognised the settlement of Europe made in 1815. At the pre sent time, at all events, it would be impossible to lay the papers connected with this conference on the table of the House. PUBLIC BUSINESS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose and said,—l promised to-day to state to the House the views of her Majesty's Government with respect to the business that is before the House, and in reference to its ex peditious dispatch. It was my intention originally to have selected this day to express these views. I thought that as soon as we sat alter the holidays it would be desirable that we should come to some conclusion on this subject; but the reason why I fixed on this day was that I thought the House would be indisposed to have the explanation of the views of Government made on the first day after they met, and that it would be reasonable, instead of taking the fag• end of the week, to select the first Monday after we assembled for business. If it had not been my in- tention to fix on this day, it would not have been possible mons, particularly on Thursday, to the state of the for me to consider the dispatch of this duty, in consequence C om mittee of Supply. He reminded the House that of the appeal and memorable spech made by a Rigut Hon. hitherto the expeditious way in which the Committee of Gentleman on the re-assembling of the House. That S upp l y h a d been carried on, the promptitude with which Right Hon. Gentleman is one who necessarily and justly we had passed our estimates, had been, as we are all but too exercises a very great influence over the opinion of this willing to acknowledge, the consequence of the continued House, and though, indeed, he is listened to with great forbearance of the House; but the Right Hon. Gentleman respect upon all subjects, on none is his opinion more re- gave the House to understand that even now the remaining garded than in the conduct of public business. The estimates amounted to millions. Oa Tnursd iy night he statement of that Right Honourable Gentleman was calcu- called the attention of the House and of the country to the lated very much to arrest public atteution, and to produce a important fact that there were still 200 votes which had not very considerable effect in the House, especially among those been p ed negativesassed, and that those 200 votes were to be met with 42 not very familiar with the details of th e su bj ects t h e Right record Hon. Gentleman spoke upon. Certainly h e conveyed an i mpres - laughter.) of one Hon. M ember.— ( Hear , hear , and That was the drea dful p ros p ect fo r the Govern lion to the House and to the country that the state of public meat at the end of the w eek, and that was one of the evi business was extremely unsati s f ac t ory; t h at there was a dances of the incapacity o f h e r Majesty's Ministry to condu c t vast accumulation of business, with a very slender prospect the business of the House of Commons. It will perhaps be of its being disposed of, and that at the end of the present some satisfaction to the Right Hon. Gentleman to know session there would be no possibility of dealing with the ac- that, Monde h in appearing to give that account cumulation before us of business, all of which, as the Right which the unparNece•sented" state of Parliamentary business come, I, Hon. Gentleman very truly stated, w as o f a hi g hl y important was said to call for, can say that same plea of extenuating and pressing character. The night Hon. Gentleman said, circumstances may be alleged ; for that now on Monday, on that occasion, that he felt deeply on the subject, that he instead of 200 votes in suPPIY remaining to be passed, viewed it with great apprehension, and that it was with no there are, I believe, only 19. —(Cheers.) And with ordinary feelings of apprehension and upon no ordinary sub- regard to those 19 votes, I cannot help thinking that, m even b Honourable em u er ject that he spoke, because it was net too mere reputation of with the determined spirit of the this particular House which was at stak e , i n th e opinion of for Youghal, the Hon. and Learned Member may i y n e d t efa n . d ti the Right lion. Gentleman—though the reputation even of other opportunities enough for the exercise of his this House, I thi9k, must be dear to him —but it was really gable powers—(A laugh)—and that perhaps when 19 votes we go a fear that if we did not take car e we s h ou l d b ring represen - into Committee of Su ply again with those we tative government itself into disrepute.—( H ear, hear. ) A n d, may experience even f ro m him some little tender touch 1 that there may be no mistake on the matter, I will quote the of remorse.—(Lau titer. There were some miscellaneous words which the Right Hon. Gentleman repeated that he bills also mentioned by the Right Hon. Gentleman. rh endeavoured to form some feared : was the Navy Pay Bill. I have but I cannot " This assembly, which has been the great landmark of opinion whether that measure can be passed, the state representative government and the great example of repro- gather that there is an •• oposition to it, and when Ad- And sentaaemblies throughout the world, will be brought inept is made with respect • to it by the Secretary to the . Bill too will pass. into disrepute. miralty, I indulge in the hope that that I that it will appear we are unable to transact our own , here is also the Patent-Law Amendment Bill, but may business. Now, Sir, it would be—it must be—a most serious remind the House that that Bill has already passed the state of affairs which could warrant such words from such a House of Lords, andthat we have referred it to a Committee man. The Right Honourable Gentleman did not confine there; as I have beforeremarked was the case with Bills so himself on that occasion—listened to as he was with becoming revision which will enable it to referred, it will attention by the House—to a mere general expression of receive a theb , eenerai attention of the command much the apprehensions under which he was suffering. He went readily yet called upon to say that House. I cannot think inre that lam yet ca into very great detail on the subject; he took a minute re- these two laws,will b advantageous to the which I believe 3 view of the elate of the business before the House; he called Now Sir, there are some the attention of the House to the various subjects before country, should be renounced. ' to which the other bills, and one rather large head, them, grouping the several Bills on all-important matters There are two Bills in that clear and perspicuous manner which he alwa Right Hon. Gentleman also referred. ys with regard to Ireland. There is, first, the Valuation commands; and he laid down the data from which he that this is a good drew the inference he communicated to us; and which, of Land Bill, and I hear from all sides in his opinion, warranted the apprehend ns , he felt. Indeed, measure.—(llear, hear. Why, then, should we give it give it up, when I read in a very great authority on the day following than it up ? havel c h a a r d in o ot l say that I am prepared to easure, and when was evidently an herculean task to deal with the business we e e numbers, i t iYhioinike, division were 80 u t i o ni 4 n i n this fa ra your of the Bill — before the House of Commons; and that even t o f orm a (Hear, hear)—and, believing that this is e Bill which is very catalo g ue of it, or to enumerate it in detail, required the much to the advantage of the people of Ireland, I certainly colossal power of intellect for which we are all willing to think the House will concur in thinking it should pass. give the Right Hon. Gentleman credit.—(Laughter.) Under There is another Bill connected with Ireland—the Whiteboy these circumstances, I felt an unusual responsibility placed Consolidation Bill. lam anxious at this moment that no upon ins in the position, for which I am every day more Bill should pass, that we should proceed with no Bill which aware lam not calculated. I felt it was a terrible responsi- is likely, I won't say to waste, but to occupy the time of bility to incur, that under the guidance which I had been the House, unless it is of urgent necessity; and, as I agree able to give to the business of the House, assisted by the with those who think that a Bill for the purposes of con kindness of llonourable Members on both sides of the solidation can scarcely come under this head, lam prepared House, I had brought public business not only to a perilous, not to press it forward.—(fleae, hear.) Then there were but to a disgraceful position.—(Hear, hear.) Well, Sir, under the continuance Bills, which is the last class of measures to that feeling I have examined, with all the assiduity the which I shall refer. The Poor-law Board Act, which is a circumstances of the case required, the state of the public continuance Bill, now stands for a third reading; and then business before us. Feeling that lam responsible for its there is the Encumbered Estates Act. That is a Bill general position, I have endeavoured to see if I could in which must be continued, and I cannot anticipate that some degree escape from the consequence of neglect of duty, any Honourable Gentleman in this House can wish that or from the results o f th a t i ncapac i ty w i t h w hi c h, t h oug h that Bill should not pass.— (H ear, hear.) there remains thet Right Honourable G en tl eman was courteous enoug h not another Bill, which relates to a matter to which the Right charge me, he must ha ve f e lt I was li a bl e to b e accuse d o f. lion. Gentleman said the late Government attached the Underthe challenge ands ppeal of the Right Hon. Gentle- . greatest importance, and which must be renewed—l mean man, I will examine very briefly the business now before us, nthe Prevention of Crime and Outrage Act in Ireland.— and the prospects and ulti mate f ate of all the Bi lls to wh i ch _l (Hear.) We have had from some Hon. Gentlemen opposite he referred. will follow t h e order taken by the Right Hon. some hints as to the opposition which is to be extended to Gentleman, because it • the evening referred to is now familiar to the House. Ore the renewal of the Crime and Outrage Act. Sir, whatever larly impressed on the Housee Right Hon. Gentleman garden- opposition is offered to the Bill, as long as it respects for legal legal reform which the importance of the Bills liamentary usages, and is conducted in that courteous spirit are be probably inferior in importancefore them—Bills of their kind • which I believe will always distinguish this House, that op- House. The Right Hon. Gentl to no business before the position in cue of imminent necessity I must be prepared to House assembled, said, with eman on Thursday, when the meet.—(Hear, hear.) It is the opinion of her Majesty's Go -first, to the Common Law Procedurereference to three of these Bills vernment that the Act for Preventing Crime and Outrage in secondly, to the Equitable JurisdictionllAmendment Bill; Ireland should be renewed—(Hear, hear)—and, inasmuch as the Bill for the Abolition of Masters in Chancery, ;and, thirdly, to that Act consists of only one clause, giving Hon. Gentlemen Hon. Gentleman said, to use his own phrasuecerY—the Right opposite credit for as energetic patriotism as any body of men his own language, " Not one step has yet been and to pursue possess, even should they put in practice all the resources of House with regard to any of these three Bilills taken in this ; their rhetoric, I cannot believe, it they should avail them introduction." He expressed a hope on Thursday that th t e l selves of all the opportunities which the constitutional forms would on Monday he able to give some information on this of this House provide them with, they will be able to de subject, and I have now the pleasure of reminding the Rightt feat a measure so necessary to the peace, the tranquillity, Hon. Gentleman, that as to both of the Common Law Juris- and the prosperity of Ireland.—(Cheers.) With very diction Bills, and the Bill for-the Abolition of Masterships in great respect, therefore, for the opinions held by those Chancery, with respect to which not one step had been taken, Hon. Gentlemen, we shall attempt to continue that very important steps have been taken by this tim e , and all A c t, an d I tell them I am prepared for their opposition, three have been read a second time.—(Hear, hear.) But which, however, lam sure will be conducted according to there were two other Bills of legal reform beside those to the spirit and practice of this House.—(Hear, hear.) I hay© which the Right Hon. Gentleman ll also all and the Biullderd— the n now the 111onhat _nh o r n ough the whole of the colossal catalogue of Suitors in Chancery Relief of Bi, wills. As theellUiete decidel .sitH their Gentleman, o and I ask the House fairly to ing alterations in the law making that the state of on that the state of public business, lion. Gentleman, so great an authority upon all u on all subjects Ri g ht is so nnsatisfa t business in the House of Commons, reform, the very highest in this , „ c ory as was pointed out on Thursday night? on the subject of legal and importance of those questions. easures that have not passed, with the most the magnitude, difficulty, anxious desire to ask the II pleasure to inform the Right House to support nothin which I Well, on Monday, I have the do not c • onceive to aenitude difficulty, be of the first nece 't ' g Hon.Gentleinan that those two Bills, the m e , anxious desire that the labof . es' y, with the most hays en- ours this Parliament should not and importance of which could not be exceeded,be prolonged, I do not find myself for justified, with the ex tirely passed through this House,—(Cheers.) So much ception of the slight and most insignia these important hills on legal reform—two of them having which I have referred, in recommending rtiNt instances to entirely passed the House of Commons, three of them having any of these Bills.—(Hear, hear.) 'Theyeappeawr withdrawal of been read a second time, and no material opposition being necessary, and they appear to me also to be in a moomstestotpe anticipated to their progress, I think her Blajesty's Govern factory state ofe progress, so that all of them ma a be ment are not arrogant or presumptuous in saying that they passed consistently with that termination of the yses would pass the Legislature arid become law without at al l interfering with that t erm i nation of Parliament which is : I claim no credit to the Government for this state now so rife in every one's mouth. Well, the Right lion. , o f t he public business, and I say that most un- Gentleman then proceeded, with all the clearness which cha e I feignedly. It is a state of the public business, i n my Bills cacterizes his mature state ments, to another group of ms I 0 nnion, satisfactory, but it is due and due only to the good which were: still on the table thoee which he de- . s i n se and the good temper of the House of Commons.— scribed as colonial Bills. On Thursday last, calling --P : ) And, Sir, when I heard the - highest authority on me on Prim:lay to give an aceount of the int •of intentions (Cheers. the present state of business, and say, with all Government, with that influence Which became his • •dilate upon e situation, I THE SUN, EVENING, JUNE 8, 1852 the weight attaching to his na me i n th e senate of his coun try,' that if we did not take care we should bring represen tative government itself into disrepute, and that it would appear that we could not transact our business, I say that I have drawn from the session which is now closing a very different conclusion and a very opposite moral.—(Cheers.) I would rather adduce what has been done in this House and the manner in which it has been done—l would rather ad duce it as an argument in favour of representative govern ment, in favour, at least of the mode in which representa tive government is carried on in this country, than bring it forward as an argument which should lead us to believe that the reputation of representative gover nment is in danger. —Cheers.) Sir, I will no t dilate upon the fact that we have been enabled already to pass through the House of Commons 37 Government measures, 20 of which have al ready become law; but when I recall to theliouse the cir cumstances of the session, that a change of Government took place, and when I remind the House of the party feel ings which under such circumstances naturally revived, of the great delay of business which from such circum stances must necessarily occur, and the fact that I and my colleagues only on the 15th o f March were ena bl e d to resume our seats in this Hous e , I t hi nk it tells very much (as I said before) for the good s ense and good temper o f th e House of Commons that w e h ave been permitted by their aid to carry out to ne ar l y a conclusion so many important measures.—(Cheers.) Si r , I remem b er some y e ars ago, when I sat on the other side of the House, under the guid ance and advice of that distinguished man Lord George Beatinck, and_when I took a part in public affairs, which I was not, but for the too great indulgence of my friends, cal culated to occupy, it became my duty to sum up the results of the longest session that I believe the House of Commons ever yet experienced —a session of more than ten continuous months, concluding in the mouth of September, 1848. There were at that time the same charges made as to the ineffi ciency of the House of Commons. At that time you were told that -the accumulation of business was intolerable, and that it was proved in a manner which every one ought to view with alarm that a representative Government could no longer deal with the affairs of a great community. Sir, it was my duty then, after a careful analysis of all the mo tions and all the measures of that remarkable session—it was my duty then to vindi ca t e the conduct and c h aracter o f the House of Commons.—(H ear, hear.) It was my duty also to endeavour to prove th at which I gave my reasons f or believing—that it was to th e weakness of the M i n i stry, an d not, to the inefficiency of the H ouse —(Hear, hear) —th a t this lamentable state of affairs was owing. In the present in stances Ido not think-it necessary for me to ascribe the pre sent state of public business either to the weakness of the Ministry or to the inefficiency of the House of Commons, be cause I maintain that the position of public business at such a period, and after a session so b roken up and di s t ur b e d, never was more satisfactory.—(Ch eers.) I said t h a t I claim no credit for the Ministry for this r esult, but I can sa y this most sincerely for them—that we ha ve endeavoure d by sedu lous attention to the business which we h ad to discharge--we have endeavoured to merit the gene rous support w hich we have received from the House of Commons, even from our opponents.—(Cheers) The motion for the discharge of the second reading of tfie Metropolitan Buildings Act was then put and agreed to. THE MILITIA BILL. Mr. L. HEYWORTH presented a petition from 7, 595 young men of London, and two petiti ons from Rochester and Chatham, against the Militia Bill. Mr. RICH claimed the attention of the House while he replied to the attacks made upon those Hon. Gentlemen who, having voted in, favour of a local Militia Bill, had felt it their duty to oppose the general Militia Bill now before the House. A most unfair use had been made of the charge of inconsistency against those who had opposed the Government measure. He wished to call the attention of the House to the grounds upon which this measure had been introduced No the House, the measure itself, and the consequences of its adoption. The grounds upon which the measure was in troduced were easily dispatched. The Home Secretary had referred to the imminent danger from abroad, and said that in the event of invasion, and after providing for the safety of our ports and arsenals, only 25,000 men would remain available for the defence of the country, The discussion as it had proceeded had dispelled both allegations. The danger had been given up, both by words and deeds, the number of men to be raised had been reduced in number, and the Government had declined to take advantage of the offers made to them by volunteer corps. It was said the marines could not be counted as available for the defence of the country, because, in the event of attack, they would be barked on board the fleet. Now, the dan ger to be guarded em against was from a sudden and unforeseen attack upon our shores by an enemy before we were aware of their intention to effect a landing. In such an event it would be the height of imprudence to send oer marines from Woolwich and from our arsenals. and they must therefore be included in any estimate of our disposable force. The Home Secretary had also excluded Ireland and the force in that country; but Ireland was as much part and parcel of the United Kingdom as Yorkshire or Middlesex, and we were bound to defend it, and Ireland was bound to come to our defence in the event of, invasion. Troops had been dispatched from Dublin to our manufacturing districts when they were in a disturbed state, and the Right Honourable Gen tleman was, therefore, bound to include Ireland, which, it should be remembered, contained 12,000 constabulary trained to the use of arms, and who were therefore available for the defence of that -country. Honourable Members, in dealing with the disposability of our forces, had assumed that we were legislating with regard to- a large and comprehen sive invasion of this country, such as would imply the com mand of the Channel fleet, and an amount of preparation on the part of the enemy which would give us full time to make counter preparations. In such a case the allocation of 10,000 men,to the Thames, 5,000 to Portsmouth, and an equal num ber to Plymouth, would be mere mystification and misleading. The attack to which we would be liable being sudden and un foreseen, there would be imbecility as well as cowardice in locking up our troops in garrison instead of sending them to meet the enemy. It had been urged that those who opposed this Bill were reckless of the defence of the country; but the best refutation of that imputation was to point to the various alternatives which had been proposed as substitutes for this measure. The Noble Lord the Member for London had sug gested a local militia, a measure more in accordance with the constitutional precedent, more comprehensive in its operation, and by which the men would be more easily found. That alternative had, however, been rejected. So had the recom mendation of the organization ofvolunteer corps, and the more important suggestion of those who preferred the addition of 10,000 or 15,000 men to the regular army. The Honourable and Gallant Member for Westminster (Sir De Lacy Evans) had shown how a force of 4,000 infantry and artillery might be brought home from the colonies, and made available for the defence of the country; but th e G overnment re f use d to listen to him. Certainly, when th ey were consult i ng a b out the best means of adding to their military defences, it did appear to him to amount to infatuation to attempt to blindly raise a body of men who were totally incapable of doing the most important duty they were about to entrust to them, and which duty, indeed, theymight readily go to the well-discipl' dandrecruited me eerily regular army, and obtain a most efficient body of give them time to learn to . trained soldiers. Why should they not consolidate and remodel that army of reserve which they already possessed, arm ension and battalion discharge, acknowledged they wouldhey m - aYstem did really constitute an army of'reserve? For a half-on of sixpence a-day, the Government might, with • ffi u lty, raise Out di 10,000 or 15,000 men, f rom s e e years of age, who had all served-ten or twelve 2B to . n the regular army, and thus obtain ari e. years i of prime soldiers before the raw levies efficient force e d d militia had mastered the goose-steP. The a 'the intended h lociould thus be occa sioned in the army could easily g e e t b recruiCng. It might be said that this would b fi u 1) y the regular army of the best men; but the d e depriving this Bill was demanded was either real tiger for which If merely imaginary, it might be at toeo or imaginary. d. If real, to retain a man in England di e s ntirely dismisse important duty of a soldier, that of discharge the most inap.• prehension of danger, could n e t b g his country ot the d language be called .robbing the army of any latitu e . ' services. He maintained that by holding 41 _ that man s . 4 a inducement of this half pension for half service they could large and most efficient army of reserve thus form a ~ anu army; there would be no difficulty w from tha the regular because life service could easily b ever in procuring recruits, dismissal from it, instead of beiri e rendered so popular that h n would be esteemed a punishment. No regarded as a eoo n , t only hoped to get 30,000 or 40,000 militiamen!the Govern firstyear by the bounty. They would have to in the. ballot, and they would find in the present to resort to the bl o i mind that the practical evils of the a f?lper of the pu b He had pointed out how th h e `lot would not be endured. 12,000 men at once for an Y could obtain 10,000 or a e rve.—(Hear.) Now there were 30,000 pensi Hereof res r 16,000 to 18,000 of whom were of th e f ni Of these they years obtain from 10000 first under fifty years of age, and thes: a dd ° the others, would furnish at least 24,000 young men to prime soldiers, infinitely preferable to 35,000 or 40 %aeti and d mila men. By the system of half-pensionso undiscipline . 0 they could obtain 6,000 or 8,000 more rjae for short s er vice the regular army, and in a few years in every would fact the get too many for this country. They cou p , , y most ciously encourage the emigration of steady"genowever soldiers and their families to the colonies. This and 0 n theory, it in practice. A measure was already had ia al was been adopted by the MaSt •er of the Ordnance, b ready New Zealand' Y which about 2,000 soldiers were sent to, Australia, and North America. W e might raise 10,000 or 12,000 ein this man ner for the Colonies, theVr W ould b e , _ m receive them, and we might keep up small Pension for to .. Thus we would be enabled gradually to lor olitical reasons. withdraw our own troops from the colonies, and to disband arrived in this country. He had therefore them by which we might establish an arm , , : ‘ Pointed out a mode composed of prime soldiers between 28 and 35 l eer ' s reserve ._ it was thought necessary to maintain a force so 13f age -If and the cost of' clothing, arming, and drillin arge in amount; exceed 150,0001. a year. That wa g one _,,g them would not the substitutes, amongst many, which had been prop osed % But the Government chose to adhere to o st t e b ad of this Bill. militia force of the country, and said that this Bill was original in the right direction. Now, the old mili tia f __ was a step tially local in all respects. It was raised mid iu rc?wes essen redly in each county or shire and was drilled tempo ,. never moved out of under exce its own county unless ptional and the circumstances. War, however, broke out , a men we re marched from county to county, and from _kingdom to ki ngdom, and, in fact, they became substantially a second ar my —so much so, that in the year 1808 the Government of the day formed and organised, out of the old volu d nt e eer corps of the year 1793 and 1804, a local militia, composed 1 all classes, and trained them round their own homes. f r local militia was the true representative of the old militia oce of this country. Now, what, would be the efficiency of the Proposed militia under the command of the Home-office? In the case of by which t invasion there were two methods additional he regular troops could be reinforced—either by of regular troops or by the subordinate cooperation regularly drilled - ' 'lied batta lions, gathered by genera volunteering and levy en masse. Both measures were highly beneficial, and in case of emer gency highly necessary ; but they were essentially distinct. The one force joined the regular army, acted with it instan taneously, and afforded time for the other force to be trained and disciplined. His objection to this Bill was, th at i t con foO nded these two resourc es, and was, like most of their legis- It would legis lation, a most mischievous compromise.. never fur nishe—he would n 4 say an army. In such a a body of troop essential • force there were several requirements to its • that ' effi ciency ; among which were these. it should be fit for Id duty—that it should be easily and certainly garrison and field should have some conne • ' assembled—and that it Now, the with the regular army of the country. the Chancellor spirit of the had told his constituents at the ia would be cheap,!popular and effici t that the proposed mi lit What would the militia have en - ave in coin- But would this be so? Nothing but regular troops?a red coat and com mon with the . Then, would a semblance of military discipline. the,• it be op , - era tive? They were told that without ballot it would not T h' popular? ot is question Then, would it be the very But, togo necessity for a ballot was the reply. he bade Honourable Memberslook at the petitions which. had b een rece i ve d by th e House upon the subject. Of these there was,in D in favour of the measure, one; ..er one, signed, as he understood, by fifteen b o y s by ; there were against it— exc lusive of those presented that night-1,377, with, sign a t ures to them amounting in number to nearly a quarter of a million.—(Elear, hear.) So much for the Popularity of the measure, of which the Chancellor of the EXellequee had boasted to his Buckinghamshire consti- tuents. He appealed from Philip in Buckinghamshire to Philip in that House.—(A laugh.) But he passed on to ask, where were these men to be found for the militia? It appeared to him that the dza t nd for 80,000 would i n two years most dangerously e the h wrecruitingen whence these whoth e army, and greatly narrow the surface constituted our regular forces —our army, navy, and marine s —were to be de r i ve d. Th ese militiamen were o to be quartered Would in provincial towns, i n public-houses.ldnotthe i i i r leu 2 r s : a day, subject to the exp enses they would necessarily be lower wages practically than those given to a D orsetsh i re out of curiosity, them labourer? They would come once, perhaps second and Why, but it would be found ve r y diffi cu l t to catch time. And they were to b e d r ill ed for hree weeks, a then suffered to roam abo u t th e country. before they could be called together again, they would have travelled from one end of the cou n t ry to t h e other —perhaps out of the country. They might ha ve go t good, permanent, and profitable employment at Li ver p oo l or M anchester, or somed where miles away. Wo u ld it not b e cruel to drag them back from that to their muster-roll for three weeks, so throwing them out of work and losing th em th e i r engagements? And what would this three weeks do for them? Would it make them soldiers? Never; never so long as the Government gave them only the discipline and only the drill which by their Bill they were prepared to do. The Chancellor of the Exchequer himself, taking the common-sense view of the question, had said on the evening.of the 6th of May that it would be madness to suppose these men capable of contend ing successfully with the armed legions of Algiers, of the Caucasus. But was it not precisely against such disciplined troops that they would have to contend ?—(Hear. ) Then what was the use of the measure? He had shown that these troops;—these militiamen, he would not call them troops-- would be with difficulty collected, and when collected would be fit for nothing—totally unfit, as had been confessed, to resist a disciplined foreign invasion. These were the tests to which it ought to be applied. But there was still the argument that the militia, though not efficient for itself, was so indirectly, inasmuch as it increased the efficiency of the regular army. The whole of the regular army we could make available to defend our shores was 25,000, and it was proposed to take 80,000 militiamen to make them more effi cient. He asked was it not monstrous for them to put this country to the expense, the harassment, and the disorgani sation of doing thus, for the army what our present policemen and pensioners, if organised, could do quitp as well? He asked, why should they not reject the measure? The neces sary consequence of their doing so would be a most desirable one—that they should have time for calmer reflection. He trusted, therefore, that Honourable Gentlemen would con. cider this, and would not fall into the silly delusion that it was better to do something, anything, no matter what, than not to legislate at all and at once upon the matter. It was against such an error that he wished most especially to guard them when he said that in their haste they might do such wrong as would prevent them from doing right hereafter. He asked them to take time for consideration. Out of the mists of this discussion had already loomed the plain fact that we possessed 65,000 regular troops within these three kingdoms. That stood out clear from their dis cussion, and no man could deny it. Then they had 40,000 in dockyard and pensioner battalions; 40,000 yeomanry and constabulary. They had a navy which had never yet been baffled or discomfited; they had about 1,300 steam-ships capable of bearing guns. He asked, therefore for some pause. He thought the public might sleep in peace - (Hear)—and this question be postponed for another year, and for more ample investigation. At all events it ought not to be dis cussed on the eve of a dissolution, and under the auspices of a provisional Government. The question, they must all feel, had been sufficiently before the public to be certain to be taken up in the next Parliament. Was it not reasonable to suppose that it would be much better settled then than at present? The subject of our steam navy, and the reserved torces of our army and navy, bore most materially on this question. On those questions a Committee was to be moved for by his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Westminster, who was most anxious for an inquiry into the condition of our steam 'navy and marine, and to know how far the latter were applicable, in case of need, for purposes of war, Re again asked the House to deal deliberately and not hastily with this question; to refer it from a pro- visional Government to an established one, and from a dying Parliament to a living one. He concluded by moving that the Bill be read that day six months. Mr. MACKINNON seconded the amendment. In the year 1642 this very question was before the House of Com mons, and on that occasion the measure was strongly opposed by Hyde, afterwards Lord Clarendon—a man of high autho rity upon it. With regard to the expediency of this force, he was not aware if any benefit had arisen from calling out the militia. Was it, therefore, wise in the Government of this country to decide upon calling out a militia force of eighty thousand men, the more especially as offers had been made by men who had a stake in the country to enrol them selves as volunteers? If they looked back to the two last revolutions in France, they would find that they had been effected principally by men who had been accustomed to the use of arms. He did not mean to say that they had any reason to be apprehensive of such a result in this country from the embodiment of a militia; but the fact he had alluded to could not escape observation. If they really apprehended any danger of an invasion, he would ask them why they should not, in preference, increase their army and navy? Suppose a force of forty thousand men invaded their coasts, the invading force would be over half the country before a militia could be called together. Under all the circumstances, he saw no use in their proceeding with this hasty measure, and he felt that it would be more in accordance with the feel ings of the country, that the further consideration of this Bill should he postponed till that day three months. Lord H. VANE would vote for the third reading, and eventually for the motion of the Hon. Member for Lam beth, to omit the compulsory clauses. He agreed with the mover and seconder of the amendment that this measure had evoked a considerable spirit of hostility throughout the country, but that was not a sufficient reason for negativing it, if that House thought it necessary for the honour and safety of the country. Looking at the fact that the pre ceding Government were pledged to some measure of the kind, and that the present Government had introduced i on their executive responsibility, he could not feel justified in wkolly opposing the Bill, but at the same time must ex press his regret that the Government insisted on th e ballot . ling clause, which it would be his duty to oppose. Mr. MACGREGOR said that public opinion out of doors was entirely against the Bill, and therefore he wondered at the hardihood of the Government in going to the country on such a measure. In London the people had no apprehen sion when the funds were beyond par, and when enormous sums of money were leaving every day for investment in the public works of France. He believed that there never was a period in the history of the latter country when they were so desirous of maintaining amicable relations with us, and he knew that the President felt that nothing could be so dangerous to the stability of his own power as any rupture with England. As to the other three great Powers Russia, Austria, and Prussia—their policy, especially since the death of Prince Schwarzenberg, was one of peace, and of com pact defence, not against the French President, but against the eventualities of another revolution. In such a state of things, he thought that a more impolitic Bill had never been introduced into that House.--(llear, hear.) If in creased' force* were necessary; he would willingly consent .to the addition of 5,000 men• to our marine force, and that would be a much better defence than a body of men who would only be bad soldiers and worse citizens. With these views he felt bound to oppose the further progress of the Bill. Mr. HEADL AM intended to vote against the third read ing, and hoped that the House would concur with him in rejecting the measure. At the same time he was willing to admit that the Government had some excuse in the public clamour, and in the act of their predecessors, and that in their difficulty they had produced a measure as littl e o bj ec.. tionable as possible, but it was only an argument against any measure of the description, that nothing bett er could be produced. His objection to the voluntary portion of this Bill was that it proposed to raise a regular force on the least economical principle. lie was willing to admit that there was some argument fur increased defence in the improvement of modern science and the increased facilities of transit. He did not believe that there was any h ost il e feeling towards us 'on the part of France; and if there were, this Bill was so inefficient that it. was a mere waste of money. For these reasons he should give his vote against the measure. Mr. E WART said it was a paramount and insurmount able objection to a Ministerial measure that it was ineffi cient; and this was so. Let the necessity for additional defence be proved, and ho would consent to an increase of the regular army and of the artillery. He believed that, compared with past wars, future wars—from which Heaven defend us—would be infinitely more destructi ve . H e con- tended that a militia force was not suited to the times we iced in. Adam Smith described it as a most barbarous force; arid if the force was inapplicable to this country in his time, it was much more so now. To constitute the best military force, the principle of division of 1 thour must be _ . acted Upon, which was in favour of a standing army. He was also opposed to this Bill, because it had two other Acts _ _ ... engrafted uj.on it, that of George 111. and the Mutiny Act, which would authorise flogging in the militia. He found that enlightened foreigners were disapproving of a militia force in Prussia and Austria, and they said that it would be found inapplicable here; but taking the opinion of military men in our own country, they were all in favour of an aug mentation of the regular army. Considering that this Bill would give neither a good nor an efficient force, he should vote against it. Sir H. VERNEY said the Bill would be useful as a means of training the population to arms, which was one of the most satisfactory measures of national defence that could be adopted. He hoped the Secretary at War Would make such regulations as would prevent the ad mission of persons of bad character into the force. He trusted encouragement would be given to the rifle corps, who would prove most valuable soldiers. It was desirable that the army should be increased by some rifle regiments. He th ou ght the guns formerly mounted in the Martell° towers ought to be replaced there, and the towers manned. This might be done at a very trifling expense. The aug mentation in the French marines and navy was proportion ally much greater than in our own. It was said that ma rines were principally used for the protection of commerce, but it should be remembered that France had very little commer ce to protect. There were means of defence avail able to this country in its mercantile marine force; each vesse l might be made to carr y one or more swivel guns; an this species of defence might also be applied to all the har bours on the coast. Supposing the opponents of the Bill to be mistaken, and that the last and the present Government were right in the apprehensions they entertained, it could not be denied that this Bill would conduce to the safety of the country. So long as we were assailable, it was the most imperative duty of the Government to bring forward such measur es as they thought .necessary for the safety of the country ; and to neglect to do so would expose them to na tional infamy. The Hon. Member for the West Riding had said the question of national defences ought fo be submitted to a Committee or Commission; and he hoped the Govern ment would not lose sight of that suggestion. Mr. BERNAL OS BORNE said it appeared as if the Go vernment had abandoned to the Hon. Member for Bedford the defence of this Bill, and the responsibility of passing it into law.—(Hear, bear.) And he must add that if there were no other reasons for the measure than those that had been adduced by the Hon. Baronet, then the dislike with which the country now regarded; the measure was not likely to be lessened in tuture. He had never heard a more war like speec h expressed in blander terms than that which was jdst c oncluded by the Hon. Baronet. Not content with voting for the third reading of this Bill, the Hon. Gentle man called upon the Ministers to put the Martello towers in order —to produce the swivel guns that had been laid up s i nc e the last war, and then they might laugh to a French ineasion.—(llear, hear, and laughter.) scorn He had been obliged to refer to what was said by the Hon. Member for Bedford for want of any other argu ments in favour of the measure ; and, whatever ec dons be might have to the principle of this Bill, he would confess at once that he did not found those objections on the v i ew s and principles of th e Peace So ciety. Bat, at the same time, he hoped he would never be found to under value the exertions or to impeach the motives of that truly benevo lent body of men. It was very easy to d er id e the efforts and to laugh at the theories of those men; but he would remind Honourable Gentlemen that they thought so no vel and enthusiastic the products of a distempered ima gination were promoted by some of the Wisest and greatest men of ancient times; by no less a person than Plato, and piing by the divine founder of our religion and coaling down to later times, they found that sovereigns like Henry IV. of France and our own Elizabeth had formed a plan of general pacification on the same principles; and coming down to a sell later period, the Spanish statesman Alberoni declared that such a scheme was not unworthy of his consi deration. Far from deprecating the efforts or the motives of men who not only preached but practised the principles of general benevolence and good-a ill, he concurred with them in opinion that, whoever reviewed the history of our past continental wars would coma to be of opinion with a popu lar writer, that taxes had been raised net to carry on wars, but that war had been raised to carry on taxes—that our greatest glory was earned by an increase of taxation, and that our most expensive luxury was a successful general.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) But at the same time he drew a distinction between armies raised for the purpose of aggres sion, and armies for the purpose of defence; and he would submit to those Gentlemen—if there were any such—who doubted the lawfulness of defensive war, that in the Utopia Of Sir Thomas More, though he depicted a society in all the enjoyment of perennial happiness, detesting war, despising glory, and prohibiting alike lawyers and soldiers—(Leugh ter)—neither allowing Martello towers nor briefs in Chan- Fer Y—yet eve n h e did not debar the natives of his happy island from the use of arms, nor from defending themselves when they were attacked. Now, he could not imagine that anybody, either in that House or out of it, would be more Utopian than the Utopians themselves.—(Great laughter.) the present state of . He must say, for himself, that he could not look upon satisfaction, filled as it was • with gigantic armies and with reactionary the Centinent of Europe with follow the Honourable rulers at the head of these armies. It might be v gh his medley of Majirtell ery ar well, though he could hardly poleon—(Laughter)—it mi ht ° Baronet the Member for Bedford to 'enee in :.(ewers, rifles, and Louis Na- Baronet to say that, he had g confi very He (fir. Osborne) did not wish well for the Hon. Louis Napoleon. trench upon the feelings of the in soasetsfanything that would bat he could not say that he shared in astidious Frenchman, confidence. He thou g h t i t was natural that Hon. Ba rone t's raised to power by th e m ili tary order should t a man wh o was with military prejudices. And after all, what t t in accordance Gentleman say I have confidence in Louis Napoleon, the Hue. for all that double your army— increase your ripfloleon'but man your Martello towers—get ready your swivel ge corps_ still I have great confidence in Louis N apoleon.—(La n trh —b - It was better to say at once they had no confidence ingLtz.) Napoleon, and they had no right to have confidence in hi m. is tie was surprised that no Honourable Gentleman had evs. quoted in the House the revelation which was made by M. Thiers in the Chamber of Deputies, which told heavily against Louis Napoleon, and which would amply justify the Government in seeing that the defences that they had —and which he mainta,ned were amply sufficient—were put in a most efficient state. On the 17th of January. 1851, M. Thiers told the French Chamber that in an interview he bad with Louis Napoleon, the President said that it was neces sary to occupy the public mind in France, and that to do that it would be necessary to undertake some enterprise abroad which would captivate the attention of the masses, and attach them to the Government. He thought Govern ment must be blinded indeed if, after that, they did not take every precaution to put the defences of the country in the most efficient state consistent with the large sums of money they voted for that purpose. But in granting that, he thought that Ministers were bound to supply fuller and greater information as to the state of the defences, and of the condition of the army. Had any s t a t emen t o f that kind been made to the House? They had from year to year enormous estimates sobmitted, and yet no satisfactory account was ever given of the manner in which the money was laid out. He was prepared to say that the sums annually voted were quite enough for national defence, without either militia, Martello towers, or riflemen.—(Hear, hear.) We might take a lesson from the way in which the French estimates were prepared in 1848, from which it would appear that In one sense one Englishman was still worth two Frenchmen, for an English soldier was just double the cost of a French soldier.—( Hear, and a laugh.) He had the French estimates in his hand, and he would read one or two extracts from them to show that our service was managed in the most extravagant and reckless way, and that we should do well if we took a leaf out of our next door neighbour's book. The English army consisted of 113,287 men, and it cost 9,337,000 L, or 82/. Bs. 4d. a soldier. The French army in 1848 was composed of 838,653 men, and cost 12,138,0001., or 411. 12s. Bd. per man.—(Cheers.) But he would go fur ther. What was the number of generals in the English ser vice? We had no less than 117 generals for an army of 113,287 men, while the French army, which in 1848 was treble, and was now quadruple the amount of our force, had but eight marshals and 143 general officers. He would take also the staff of the two armies, and compare the proportion ate expense incurred. In the English army the charge for the effective service was 3,270,0001., or about 384 per cent. upon a total expenditure of 9,337,000/., while the French staff cost but 2,260,0J0/., which was a charge rather under 19 per cent. on an expenditure of 1 2,183,000/. When, therefore, Honourable Gentlemen talked of the country not being in a proper state of defence, he would advise them to look A little into these French estimates, and the House would bear in mind that in this comparison no account whatever was taken of the dead weight. He found also that the French soldiers, being clothed on a system of open con tracts, were clothed at 12s. a head less than our own soldiers, though their uniforms were furnished in a country which ought to be the cheapest country in the world for woollen clothing.—(Hear, hear.) Another thing which he found was this—that in the French army, trebling our own in amount, military justice was administered at a cost of 8,0001., while in the English army it cost 32,000/. There must be some thing wrong in all this. There must be some great waste somewhere. The money which the House of Commons voted annually for military purposes could not be laid out to the best advantage, or else why was so great a difference observable in the French estimates and our own? It was true that we spent bat 22,000/. in powder, while the French outlay in that article quadrupled that amount; and the French soldiers were armed with the Minis= rifle, and equipped with every improvement suggested by modern military science, while the English soldier was only supplied with the miser able musket. He repeated that it was evident toat some thing wrong was going on, and that the House ought, be fore they agreed to the third reading of the Bill, to insist on some better information being given on the subject of mili tary expenditure than had been afforded. lie thought that if an intelligent foreigner had come into the House during the debate on the introduction of the Bill, he weuld have been rather surprised to see the Home Secretary, who was very skilful, no doubt, as a Chancery lawyer, coming for ward to propose that 50,000 men should be raised to form a militia. What could the Right Honourable Gentleman know about military matters? In saying this he did not attribut any blame to the Minister of the day; what he found fault with was the system. He thought these matters ought to be in the hands or a War Minister, who ought to be able to ex plain to the House the condition of the army and the nature and extent of our resources. The consequence of the present system was, that the House was about to pass a Bill in a panic, which no one in his heart b elie v e d to be of any eel.- vice, and which the inajoriiy of military men, and all civi lians, with some few excepti o ns , believed to be inefficient for its purpose. He said, "with cone few ex cept i ons, " be caused be had perceived t o -da 1 ' in the papers an address from the Right Honourable Gentleman the Ceancelior of the Exchequer to those confiding farmers wh o were his con stituents in Buckinghamshire. The Right Honourable Gentlemen recounted in that address th ose rap id acts of statesmanship fen . which he wished his Government to go down to the admiration of posterity.— (Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman plumed himself on ono " as a measure of internal defence, which it iseeelieved"— the Right Hon. Gentleman did not state his own opinion on the subject —" will soon prove both popular, economical, and efficient." He (Mr. Osborne) would take leave to parody the words of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and to assert his belief that this " internal defence" would soon become an internal com plaint, which would prove neither economical nor beneficial. He was very much mistaken if even the confiding farmers of Bucking • harashire did not ask the Right Hon. Gentleman some more questions about the origin of this Bill. He was rather surprised to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman should have assumed the parentage of this measure, but he was prepared to prove that he was only its p itative father, and that he really had nothing to do with such a miser able abortion. He could prove that the idea was taken by the Home Secretary from a pamphlet written in 1848, by Mr. Frederick Hill, inspector of prison., but with the omission of some useful adjuncts to the plan • an omissien which would remind the H ouse o f two tolerably well-known lines— " Quem recitas meus eat, 0 Fidelline, lihellus , bed male cum recitas, incipit ease taus." -L-(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Every ; Hon. Member oh. recol lected the proposition which the Right Hon. years, service; made to give militiamen a vote after two sudden fit of and they also remembered—the most Gentleman tlemen came down to the House t Parlia mentary repentance on record—when the R give them a vote. There and said that he did not mean Right. Hon. Gentleman was a great variety . of thegibMthonGdeany, on the following that the proposal was a joke of democratic, - others juke at all. He believed that were But it was no . as pinion al o aout this movement. Some said that the tende o n t e o t Lord Derby's . He knew where the Right the of their thunder. it from a speech of i t was none stole it from. He took Hon. Gentleman _ _, proposed to induce soldiers Government had deliberately weighed the proposal, but in gob who Dir. Windham's, I Billts a bore right to shoot g ame ,— (L aug hter and cheers.) It on its face th e mar k s was apiece of political p a t c h wor k , of hasty compilation. to enlist by giving their Tsehrisgean not intended for the defence of the country, but for the poli ticali exigences of a Ministry in its last mom en t s. T he country did not want it, it had no belief in it, and w h at was be of no use to the count r y.—(H ear, hear.) more, it would There was a perfect apathy about it out of doors, and no one out of the House talked about Martello towers. But il t it was said " Let us have an army o f reserve. " The Right en Honourable Gentleman seemed to think that it was e nough to put a man in a red coat a n d ma k e him shoulder a musket, to make him a soldier. He Should have supposed that he had read Mr. Windham with sufficient attention to satisfy himself that mere numbers were not a suffi cient defence of a country. The Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to raise the militia by giving a bounty, which it was clear would operate most unequally in different parts of the country. In the rural districts it would deprive the farmer of a great deal of labour, probably when he most wanted it, while in the manufacturing districts, where the bounty would be of no avail, the Government must resort to the ballot, a proceeding contrary to the " genius of the epoch," which no statesman ought to disregard.—(Cheers and laughter.) With regard, however, to this army of re serve, the Rht Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department told the House with considerable aplomb and confidence, that he proposed to make th em effi cient soldiers by drilling them for twenty-one days. Ile was really quite astonished at the simplicity of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Where had he been living all his life? Had his briefs been so numerous in the Court of Chancery that he knew nothi ng o f th e organiz itien of arms? He defied her Majesty's Ministers themselves, though he admitted that they were active recruits, to acquire a knowledge of their profession in twenty-one days. "e admitted that the Noble Lord at th e h ea d of the Government had shown much skill in perf orm i ng a rather difficult e volution — Le namely, changing hi s trout in the presence of his adversary -(Hear, hear, and l aug h ter.) The Chancellor of the Ex chequer was well verse d in light infantry moveinenPet. and knew well ho w t o advance and retire on a bu f in (Laughter.) The Horne Secretary was equally exprt his avoiding the file-firing of questions.—(Laughter.) Esser (the neighbour the Right Hon. Member for Nona Secretary-at-War) Greneral had avoid danger at any quarter ; but the Attorneyra _ diments of was an experienced soldier: not been able to get much farther than the e which was "goose step."—(Laughter.) But the r_ fa fs e rce, even as proposed to be raised would be a nd cheers.) The an organized hypocrisy.—(Laughter a l' ri s cl would would more probably Bill was not worth the paper, and (Cheers.) At i the tempt invasi on t h an repel aggression.—(Cheers.) end of five years, after 121 d a ys drill, th e men were to be Why. such a for" would be no thing to their homes. au likely to be dangerous thing but an irregular horde, moreoir foe?. - (Cheers.) Mr. to the regular soldiers than to . t i h ties but he never contem- Pitt was a great advocate for El s ; t in an efficient state. Some plated such a militia as this. H should be brigaded and kept in the Home Secretary in his idea was that the men gentlemen, who resembled but —(Laughter)—had proposed king manwhetherherail pooibie said, 6; beg to ask any t . amiability an d genera l want of understanding 20 days' drill, un derstanding on these points for a volunteer to acquire only the simplest He wou ( l ili d i t ui ask iiinLOydays?' thinking'— ( days?"—(Cheers.) man—he rs. ) B, part of a soldier s ask the h O e s b ß o i r g n h e t ) , too, Hon. President of the India Board, who was a man f rience, and might have h ear d M r . Pitts peak— oaritezpe- how it was possible to m a k e a man a soldier in 21 g day /—* ( Hear, hear.) The Ri g ht H on . G entleman (Mr. Walpole) s seemed to emulate Pompey the Gr eat , w h o used to boast that he could raise an army by stamping the ground ; but he was more likely to resemble the fabled hero of the farce, and would_be obliged to say— " Begone, brave army! don't kick up a row." —(Loud laughter.) The Bill was a trumpery:abortion ; but there was one clause so obnoxious that he could not refrain from making a remark upon it. He was much surprised that a Minister at the eve of an election, and therefore anxi ous, he presumed, to acquire a little popularit y, and to consult "the genius of the epoch"—(Laughter)—should have proposed to exempt Peers from serving.—(Cheers. ) He thought that that was a great slur upon the British aristocracy, and he believed that they felt it as an insult; for, whatever the faults of the aristocracy, they had never shrunk from taking] their share in the dangers and difficulties of the public defence.—(Cheers.) He had said that it was impossible to make the militia an army of reserve. An lion. Gentleman beside him had alluded to the militia in America; but Washington had always spoken of it with the greatest contempt. In 1776, after the battle of Brooklyn, where the militiamen were repulsed with igno miny, Washington denounced them in the strongest terms, and said, that the depressed state in which the American cause then stood arose from "short enlistments, short drill, and placing too great dependence on the mi litia."—(Hear, hear.) Reference had also been made to the National Guard of France, but nothing could be more unfortunate. When a motion was made in the French Chamber for the re-organization of the National Guard, General de Grammont stated—and he begged the attention of the lion. Gentleman the Member for Glasgow (Mr. Macgregor) to this, for he was fond of statistics— Gen. de Grammont stated, that on the 2s'th June, 1848, although the National Guard of Paris numbered 237,000, they could only prevail on 8,000 to come out from their homes.—(Laugh ter.) He (Mr. B. Osborne) had on a recent occasion voted with a Right Hen. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) against the proposal of the Ministers for re-allotting the vacant seats, on the ground that this was merely a provisional Government; but, if it was not right to legislate for the purpose of giving Members to constituencies, he thought they ought not to pass this Bill, which, in his conscience, he believed would be of no use, at the instigation of Hon. Gentlemen who had none of the confidence of that (the Opposition) aide of the House, and very little of the other. —(Ministerial cries of "Oh !" and counter-cheering.) If they wanted any army of reserve at all, he believed the true policy of this country was to look to their wooden walls, to have an overpowering naval force such as no other power could compete with and to ive full scope to volun teer rifle corp s , if rifles they wa• g nted• But he called on the House in th e words of a statesman now no more, not to be caught by a fear of in • Ministry, not to invasion into the snare of a designing pass a measure proposed by . a Ministry p scrambling for a party and discussed in the panic a an ex - Therg Pint. (Cheers SOLICITOR-GENEdAL Gallant Member, in his said that the Hon. and quoted the authority of many e somewhat humorous speech, had Pitt, against the present proposalprons, from Washington to (the Solicitor-General) thoughtof raising a militia. He that if they au thorities on the subject, t h e present Bill looked to l! would not without support, and inst ance d the opinion stand of the very eminent soldier wh o stood at d i n its favour army, and the distinguished offic er at the head of the Board of Ordnance. The Govern ment of the late of the Robert Peel had given instructions for p reparing Sir Bill for the establishment of a militia, and the late a Goverment had brought forward a proposal somewhat similar t:that now before the House. It was not, therefore, to be - con tended that the authorities were all on the one sid e , neither could it be maintained that the time had not arrived when it had become the bounden duty of a Government to bring forward such a measure as the present.— (Hear, hear.) An increase in the regular army had been recom mended by those who were opposed to the present measure, and strangely enough this recommendation had proceeded from the party which boasted of being the Whigs of 1688. (Hear, hear.) If, however, such a proposal as that of per.. maneutly increasing the standing army had been brought forward by the Government, he could imagine the burst of opposition • with which it would have been encountered by the same Hon. Members.—(Hear, hear.) The militia which it was proposed to raise had been characterised as a perfectly inefficient body. He did not concur in that opinion, and wished the House to remember that the force proposed to be raised was intended to aid, and not to supersede, the regular tooops. He believed that in the present state of affairs the proposed force was the best adapted to meet the requirements of the case, and the best calculated to afford. a guarantee for the continaance of peace.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. PETO considered the increased facilities of commu nication by telegraph and other means as the best guarantee for peace, andas the most efficient security against hostile invasion. The present measure, while it was calculated to disturb the whole industry of the country, would merely produce a force which it was generally believed would be exceedingly ineffective. There existed throughout the country an intensity of feeling against the measure, of which the Government appeared to be but little conscious, and he thought that the better course would be to increase the standing army rather than have recourse to a measure such as this. (Hear.) The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the amendment ... ... 148 Against it Majority ... —72 The Bill was therefore read a third time. Mr. THORNELY then moved the addition of the fol lowing proviso to the end of clause 18:—" No member of the senate of the University of London, nor any examiner, professor, tutor, or lecturer of the said university, or of any college, school, or institution connected with the said uni versity, under the provisions of any charter thereof, nor any student of any such college, school, or institution, duly ma triculated in the said university, and actually receiving education in any of the Said colleges, schools, or institutions. nor any resident member of the University of Durham shall be liable to serve or provide a substitute for the militia." Mr. WALPOLE proposed to include within the exempe tion contemplated by the proviso the members of St. David's Col'ege, Lanipeter. Mr. BRIGHT thought that Owen's College, Manchester, which was in many respects a kindred institution to those which it was sought to exempt from the operation of the clause, ought also to be included within the exemption. There was also a large college in the neighbourhood of Manchester, intended for the education of ministers of the Independent body of Nonconformists, as well as several others in different parts of the kingdom. He could not dis cover any reason why those colleges embraced in the proviso of the Hon. Member (Mr. Thornely) should be exempted, and why other colleges of much the same character should be differently treated, especially those where young men were being.trained to the Christian ministry. Mr. EWART thought the College of St. Bees stood in the same category with reference to the claim of exemption. Mr. WALPOLE said St. Bees was a school, and not a college. • TAhtteerpraorveimsoawrkt frsaodmdelldir. to t H he EY el W an O se r, laughter, moved the omission of clause 18, which he consi dered Mr. W. WILLIAMS. amid cries of " Oh, oh, g ' o ' to be one of the most objectionable in the whole. Bill, as establishing a system of conscription. - Mr. WALPOLE.said the clause having been so fully dis cussedsidered in no Committee, thoat n e second and and de thirdwh ol whole readingsßill recog nizing the necessity, in some cases, of having recourse to the ballot, he woul i put it to the Hon. Gentleman whether it was worth while dividing the House. In that clause there was nothing of a nature which compelled the Executive putting int Go vernment to put the ballot in force in case the volunteers should fail; but it was a permissive clause, enabling t h e Crown to put the ballot in operation in case it should be necessary.— (Laughter.) And if they left out the clause ......... 1 . \,. . : 1 k .. ....... N . • ... 5 . ... : 1 1 . t_b l l 4 e Bl they must also leave out the proviso at the end of another clause, which restrained the Government from execution the statute of George 111., unless they f a il e d in raising the volunteers. The House then divided, when the result 'otwithstanding any" For the M 111.531011 tOhtetheeillSe .. was__ clause was Against inserted motion M.aj. o o- ; r a j Sir t t . e .. : ......... a EI : ''''''''''''''' ) ...L . f 4 o s llowing thing herein contained, the 44th year of King George 111 provisions contained in an Act of yeomanry and to consolidate and amend the ,c- 54 intituled "An Act relating to corps entitled by virtue of the last or yeomanry of the several Acts Britain, and to make regulationsry and volunteers of Great con tinuo in force, so far as the relating thereto.' shall con nba and e du c o somen corps of which such corps are e sm " applies to the enrolment of Volunteers, and the exemptions to Act." _mentioned Sir DE order the ballot, except LACY EVANS then proposed a proViso at the end of clause 35, to the effect that it shall not be lawful to by Mr. Anstev an Mr. GOULBUlllopposed the proviso, INIr. D'Eyncourt. danger i‘ ir. l\o'fAwLaPrOLE tin time of actual war or imminent which was SUPPOrted clause 35 end o f N said the effect of the amendment at the would be to exempt the miners in Cornwall fThe B11:11"vieas rom the (Laughter. liable.— (L ballot, whilst all other classes would be The For the 82 proviso .. -' ... ... Against it divided, when there appeared-- - 178 announced ••• ••• • • Majority against the proviso ..• —9B w Procedure Bill , thenpassed. that-heeCphiroANposeCdEtLoLtOskße the THE LAW BILLS. Th (Committee), the Masters in Chancery Abolition Bill (Com mittee), and the Inaprovement of the Jurisdiction of Equity Bill (Committee) on Friday next. NAVY PAY BILL. the Common E XCHEQUER a The House went into Committee on the Navy Pay Bill. Sir GEORGE PECIIELL desired to know if it were in tended by this Bill to leave three months' pay in arrear in stead of six months? _., Mr. STAFFORD-1_ es iVh r Mr. S. In e e is the necessity for any alteration? l a what manner does the present system work ill ? STS' pre sent system is unpopular Air. S t the n, because the sstem appears unfavourable am on g' •with the practice in in comparison present practice was introduced as a precaution against de • sertion. but it is now found unnecessary. The whole tone of the navy is so much better that it is not necessary to continue the disqualification. Admiral STEWART expressed his approval of the Bill. He t bought it would be very acceptable to the navy, and would tend to make the service popular. Although they ought never to give up the right of impressment, he hoped they would newer have occasion to use it. Captain SCOBELL concurred in thinking the Bill, as far as it went, would make the navy popular. He wished to ask the Secretary et the Admiralty whether it affected seamen of foreign stations, because most of our navy served , n .? Mr. inquired whether it wo u ld STAFFORD replied that it would not occasion o ne f ar thing's additional expenSe; and that the measure wou ld a 3b d a r t V? t the R e expense n s e S of M ItTheacou also country i 3 apply to seamen on foreign stations. The various clauses were then agreed to, and the Bill passed through Committee. ORDER- OF BUSINESS. Mr. WALPOLE, in stating the order of public business, said that the Government intended on Thursday to take Supply at twelve o'clock, ar:d afterwards to go on with the New Zealand Bill. Oa Friday they proposed to begin with the Colonial Bishops Bill, then to go on with the law Bills, and to end with the Interment Bill. (Laughter.) POOR•LAW BOARD CONTINUANCE (IRELAND) This Bill passed through Committee. PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The third readi ng , 4 this Bill having been moved, Mr. MACGREGOR said that the shipping interest were so much opp ese d to this measure, which bad taken them by surprise, that h e h oped the Government wou ld not persevere with it durin g t h e p r esent session. i f, h owever , t h e t hi rd " 0 4 WAI Primed PA the premt 9ccao9l l . he 61 1941 RIM TUESDAY