The Sun. — London, England, 1852-06-22 00:00:00

LON DON, Fences would exist on the subject of the management of these meantime, he should move on the third reading to confine HOUSE OF LORDS, June 21. schools, and as to the corral and religious character of the the exemptions given to foreign shipping . to those. cases is The Loup CHA-NCELLOR took his seat on the Wool• teacher. The alteration which was made by the relaxation which the subject o f the p atent had been in tne first instance , sack at Five o'clock. f taese clauses he thought would' be beneficial to the public, , patented abroad. if the Hon and Learned .' Earl FORTESCUE presented a petition praying the and, instead of increasing the divisions of the Church, would ! Mr. HENLEY said h. . . Gentleman , Goverument to adopt steps to secure the possession of have a! , effect the very reverse.—(Hear, hear.) In '45 could suggest any meaus . by Which protection might be : immense depoeite of guano recently discovered in there niad been divisions in consequence of the rest r iction i given to English pat, without inconvenience or hinaraneo ;the: the islands of L ihos, and geogrelly to facilitate the mat -1 ii,i d own by ti l e management clauses; and in nis reso , I to trade, he should be glad to consider them; but he dal j bn ions were carried against the Government by the N a tional not think the proposition of which the Hon. and L earne d i portation , of that article into this country. S id( tv. The same was the case also in 184 9. In 1850 i Gentleman had just given notice would accomplish the The learl of MALMESBURY said that her Majeste 's Lard Lansdowne said, on the application of Lord liar- I object he contemplated. cruisers had received inserectiona to obtain all the infer rowby, ,bat.lie would not object to a Conlmittee if it were I The clause was then agreed to, as was also the remaining relation in their posse!. rotative to these deposits of guano, moved Inn The consequence was that the agitation par- I clauses of the Bill and as far as lay in their power to secure British ill gaily ceased, because those members of the Church who I On the schedule in clause 44, t e eesto. Her Majesty's Government had great hopes of had been deprived of the grant had a prospect of receiving I Mr. CARTER proposed amendments of which he had being able in some degree to break up the monopoly it. This year, for the first time, the National Society was given notice. The fees to be paid under the Bill would which was at present kept up by the Peruvian Govern in perfect harmony with the Government.—(Hear, near.) , amount to 1491. I Is., and for stamps 551. wou ld h ave to b e meat in respect of this article. New, th a t being the case, it was very desirable that they i paid—in all 1841. I le., a large sum fur those who sought to Lord BISOUG HAM presented a petition 6 tenplainine should give to the , inin bels of the Church the pow, rof en- take out patents, and who were gene ra ll y poor men. His of certain provisions introduced into the County Courts dewing the scam. upon their own opinions , and that they amendment would have the effect of ena bli ng a paten t to be sho u ld - not he deprived of a portion of the grant. The taken out for 10/, instead of the present large sum. 11, Bill, enabling articled clerks to practise in those courts. . clauses introduced by the late Government , h e con- p ro p osed, therefore, in the first item of fees f or "five pounds" Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from 130 tended, had been a source of great division among to insert. " live shillings." members of the inner and outer bar against the clause members of the Church. He be ieved with the Noble Mr. HENLEY (lid not think that an y w en.foueded oh- in the County Courts Bill preventing barristers receiving Laid th a t t h e Chur c h o f E ng land hart its elements of Joel ion could be taken to the scale of f e es under the Biil. instructions from any but solicitors. He hoped their we o sness , as wen as of strength. He thought its element Persons who were desirous of taking out patents would net Lerdships would agree to an amendment to remove the of weakness of late years was to be attributed to the great object to paring 25t. the first wear for the protection grievance of which the petitioners complained. dieconragement it met with from the Government, and lie atfirded to their inventions; and if the low scale proposed Lord CAMPBELL considered that if the Noble ainsidered they would be increasing its elements of strength by the lion. and Learned Gentleman were adopted, they Lord's suggestion worn carried out it would be pro it they were permitted to give encouragement in the way would have all the most worthless projects patented of r„._ ductive of great mischief, and lower the character of they proposed.— (He.r, hear.) That was the object of the Mr. MUNTZ could not concur in the propriety the bar. minute they had introduced , and the effect of it would be clueing the fees to so low a scale as that proposed by the for th e first time to place them on a footing of equality Hon. and Leaned Gentleman. After a few words from Lord Penotroneet and Lord (Hear.) He therefore said, give them freedom of action in The gallery was c l eare d f or a division, bust none took I . l lN u m i allnsf the conversation Oropped. the construction of their schools. The policy o n which they place, the lion. Member (Mr. Carter) n ot havin g found an y MA tIAGE WITH DECEASED WIFE'S SISTER. Dreposed to act was wise in itself and its consequence s, and Hon. Membe r to ac t as h is teller. The folloviene petitions were presented on this sub he fi rm ly b e li e ved, it it had the effect of allaying the dine- The amendment accordingly fell to the ground, and the ject:—By the Earl of Essex (19 petitions, signed by reneea which had arisen in the Church, no greater boon schedule was agreed to. 6,892 persons), from Barnsley,- Wolverhampton, North could pestibly be conferred on it.— ( Hear.) The House resumed, and the CHAIRMAN reported allerton, Colchester, Newport, and other places; the Sir 11. VERNEY said one important question was,whether progress. Marquis of Lansdowne, from Bristol, King swoon, Little the schools authorised and supported by Parliament were CLIME AND OUTRAGE (IRELAND) BILL. ton-on-Severn, and other places, signed by 1,007 per good for those who went to them to receive instruction. It sons; Lord Stanley of Aldertoy, from Liverpool, Chester, t into Committee on the Crime and was their duty to see that the children in those schools should Ou T tr h a s ge ll (t a rel s a t n i d ie ) n ß ev il e l a . Corgleton, Macclesfield, and Stockport, containing receive the education that was intended. He felt certain The preamine was postponed. 5,904 signatures; the Earl of Bessborough, from Devon that it was because the Church lived in the affections of the Clause 1. port, Eaeter, Bridtham, Chudleip,h, Tavistock, and other People th a t it ex i s t e d, b u t i ts use fulness would not be in- Mr. V. SCULLY moved an amendment to the effect that creased by giving more power to the clergy, but by uniting the Bill should be in force only until the 31st of December Parted Devonshire, signed by 3,950 persons; Lord Gage, them with the laity.—(Hear, hear.) next, and no longer. He hoped the Government would from Bath, Southampton, Salisbury, Gosport, Peters- Mr. GLADSTONE sa id he agreed with a previous speaker agree to the amendment, as the Chancellor of the Exche- field, and other places, signed by 4,646 persons; the as to the immense importance of the subject of education, quer had stated that the next Parliament was to assemble Earl of Minto, from York, Leeds. Billericay, and various and of e v er ything b e l o nging to it. Were it not for the im- about October, which would afford a b un dan c e of time to re- other towns in Yorkshire and Essex, containing 5,002 Portance of the subject he should have been surprised at the enact the law, if it were deemed necessary. Besides this, signatures; Lord Wodehouse, from. Norwich, Bury St. exaggerated terms which had been used with reference to this the Bill was brought forward at the fag end of the sessi o n , a Emunds, and Ipswich, with 3,860 signatures; the Earl Particular minute. After all that he had heard of satisfac- course which the Chancellor of the -.Exchequer had himself of Chesterfield, from Canterbury, Ashford, Romney, tion on the one side, and of alarm on the other, the case ap- condemned in respect of the measure which passed in 1816. Deal, Margate, Ramsgate, Woolwich, and other neared to him to be not altogether unlike that of the moan- Another reason for limiting the duration of the Bill was the „ Dover, tain and the mouse. He confessed he felt a difficulty with circumstance that remedial measures had been promised by places in amt. respect to the construction of some parts of the speech of the the Government, and that the House should have an oppor- Earl ST : GER HANS said he was instructed by a Right Hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary. He did not tunny of knowing the character of these measures before very large, intelligent, and respectable body of persons „ s ee how they could maintain the doctrine that unlimited conferring for such a long period the extraordinary powers to present a petition, praying their Lordships to concur freedom should be given to founders of schools to choose the contained in the Bill. with the other House in amending the law so far as it terms on which they should be conducted. The change •Mr. COGAN said an attempt had been made to misre- related to marriage with a deceased wife's sister. The Which h a d been made in the minute did not appear to him present the opposition to the Bill, which he entirely repu- petition was signed by 98,000 persons, among whom to be unreasonable. The Noble Lord had spoken of dieted. lie admitted that crime existed in some parts of were clergymen of the Established Church, ministers o f the danger of investing the clergyman with a power of de- Ireland, but he could show that it had generally decreased different denominations, Merchants, bankers, lawyers, eidiog as to the moral conduct of the schoolmaster; but the fro m 30,000 to 20,000, and thou g h he would aid the repres- and medical men, and as many as 16,000 or 17,000 mars same thing might be said with reference to the question sion o f crime as such, he would not aid in coercion as a re- tied women. All these individuals were com ef religion. Previously a discretion was given to ttie cler- medy for the evil. Coercion had been tried for a century et to form an opiates upon that important subject, Oman with reference to tae teaching, and now it was pro - without effect: the Government should go to the root of Pent Posed to submit it to the conduct of the teacher . He did the evi l, namel y , the social condition of the countr y , if and the fact of their signing such a petition ought to hot think that that was an unreasonable extension. He they wished to cure agrarian outrage in Ireland. He gave have great weight with their Lordships. England was aoreed with the Noble Lord that the laity should have as the G o vernment credit for a desire to suppress crime in that nearly the only country in which these marriages were large a share as possible in the management of the Church coun try, b u t n o t a single member on their side had shown a held to he not binding, and none of the evils which it schools. He thought that to give up the Commit t e e alto - justification for the Bill on the ground that it had repressed was anticipated would result from an alteration of the geth er wou ld b e on ev il ; but he believed that under these crime. In that respect the Government had altogether law here were found to exist in those countries where rela xat i ons t h ey m i g ht ver y of t en have a Committee con- failed; and as the measure was most unconstitutional in marriage with a deceased wife's sister wa s a ll owe d. ,stituted where, but for these relaxations, they might not its character, he hoped they would not oppose the amend- lf, then, the law and practice of all other European States— ewe had one at all. Now, with regard to the question of ment. and, he might add, of the United States as well—were con- Power to suspend temporarily in cases of scandal , it might b e Lord N AAS said that some Hon. Gentlemen oppo s it e had Crary to the law and practice of this country, he tho ug ht it l i ght to have that power exercised; but then , again , it might stated th at the Act had been inoperative for the supp re ssi o n behoved Loam to well examine the ground u p on w hi c h th a t b e abused by the clergyman. As to the importance and duty of crime; but a statement mo r e unfounded had n ever b een law rested. The people of England were a moral and reli ef elevating the character of the schoolmaster, if it was in - made in that House. He held in his hand a return, which gious people, and if their Lordships satisfied them that these t ended to do any such thing, some security should attach to showed the effects of t h e Act i n different districts in marriages were contrary to Scripture, h e was sure t h ey '.it position.—(Hear, hear.) When he (Mr. Gladstone) which it had been p ut in force, and from that return it would cease to press for their legislation; but even the b enc h °Poke of security, he meant that in order to effect that they appeared that its operation had beep eminently successful. of bishops were not agreed on the poi n t, an d th a t l e ft t h em elteuld do a great deal more than they could e ff ec t b y means During the three mont h s w hich has preceeded the issuing enen to grave doubts as to the scriptural character of the of the minutes of the Privy Council. These minutes were of the proclamation in the year 1847 in the county law. The Noble Lord then described at some length the lifte r a ll, mere ly ex perimental, and he should say h e alto- of Cavan, t h e num be r of outrages had amounted to 43, state of the law OR this subject. Previous to Lord Lynd nether differed from the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman and during the last three months they had only amounted burst's Act these marriages were voidable, but not void at thea Home Secretary in thinking that the honour of Parliament to 20; i n the county o f Lime r i c k the outrages at the same any time after the marriage; but by that Act a limit was to pie gad to these minutes. To which of them he wished per i o d h a d amounte d to 262 and 39 ; in the county of Ros- fixed, - by requiring proceedings to set aside the marriage' to te know was the honour of Parliament so pledged? They had common t h ey h a d a mounted to 93 and 23; and in the be instituted iu the lifetime of both parties, so -that on the seiy minutes y e ar. to hat he (Mr. Gladstone) took county of Tipperary they had am o nnted to 2 35 and 8 1 . death of either the husband or the wife, the ' c hild ren c ould to b e th e case was this—that, by the labours of the Privy The Act had, in fact, been attended with great and most no longer be bastardised. That was the prese n t st a t e of th e t eeun c ii, th e y wer e f e eling their way to a system of educe- beneficial results. At the same time there was nothing law. The opinion of ,ord Denman was, th a t th ere was marriages were contracted under the belief that they are C ouncil, w hi c h, w h en d eve l o ped, ought to come under the which could in ,the slightest degree inconvenience men who nothing In Scripture against these marriag es , Many o f th ese th ew of Parliament in all particulars and details, and were determined to obey the law, and to perform their y duties as good citizens. Honourable Gentlemen opposite legal. In fact, they had either done too much or' too little to then was the time to be availed of to afford security not fall upon the issue, but they oil ' ght to - make it penal for , the masters of those schools.—(Hear.) If they wished had failed to show that a single instance of oppression had If they were contrary to Scripture, the punishment should . `e have a high class of schoolmasters, these men should not 'aken place under the Act, and under those circumstances le, , • subject to be dismissed at the dictum o f any i n di v id ua l.— he believed the H ouse wou ld readily consent to its renewal. parties to contract them. The restrictions against these boners had a right to ask for relief. He should next ses - sion ,t i llear.) Therefore he slid not think it too much, to sa y Mr* F. SCULLY supported the amendment. The Irish marriages he considered unjust, and he thought the pet' that the situation of schoolmaster was not sufficiently secure Members had not exhibited anything like factious opposition ender these minutes.—(Hear.) In such an experimental t o the m easure, and he hoped that would have some weight bring forward a Bill upon the subject, which he hoped would Nidition, they shou l d look into the schools as a whole. The with the Government in adopting the amendment of his meat their Lordships' approval. He should now move that question was not whether they could provide a ga i ns t ever y R on . Friend; if not, their duty to their constituents might the petition be laid on the table. use of abuse; and, however many might differ from the compel them to take another and p much more unpleasant Lord LYNDHURST said, as considerable misapprehen teillergy, and think them over-strict, he had no doubt that course. sion prevailed with regard to the Bill which he had intro e great majority of the clergy —entirely irrespective of Mr. M. 3 . O'CONNELL , although he supported the doted with regard to this subject, eee thought it right to pa rty distinctions—were in earnest in reference to religious amendment, could not adopt the course which was shadowed o ff e r some explanation upon th e matter. That Bill made t'aeation.—(Hear.) That schools might be d epr i ve d o f out by h i s H on . E r iend who preceded him; an d if a course no alteration with regard to marriages within the prohibited i attempted he would be inclined to a d o pt th e degrees. Wh a t ever th e res t r i ct i ons were before that A ct 'te it masters he regarded as a very good objection in of delay was .'e abstract ; but would it not be better to have a bent of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Cha nce ll or o f th e was passe d, th e y were t h e same now. The Bill was not se e brought to a stand still in its operations than to have E x chequer, arid retire to his rest. i ntro d u ced for the purpose o f ma ki ng any alterat i on o f th a t it heel by a mars whose practices and general demea- The ATTORNEY - GENERAL for IRELAND said that kind. Cases of hardship came b e f ore hi m where the Tier® were a disgrace to the community ?"—(Hear• he r.) any offence committed up t o the 31st of December would offspring of such marriages, who considered themselves , was no class of men throughout the country who nad g o unpunished unless the Act was in existence in order legitimate and entitled to inheritprrperty of parties, insti deeper anxiety in the keeping open of their schools than to enforce the law at the next March assizes. That, he toted proceedings against them in the ecclesiastical courts, herbl' clergy, and therefore the objection that the school might thought, was a complete answer to the amendment of the might be made bastards. What the Bill did was to make rou rot to a stand-still by the dismissal of the master Hon. Gentleman. such marriages which were not voided within two or three 6 ' . . was more an objection in the abstract than it ever would be Sir D. NORREYS supported the amendment, believing years valid. Their Lordships were in f av our of that pro- Practical effect.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore he should say that such an arrangement would meet the views of the Go- vision, but the bench of bishops, for whom he had the most toe (Slr. Gladstone) saw no ground for impeaching these vernment. • profound respect, opposed it; and it was argued that to make "lutes It might be considered unwise were Government Mr. CARTER objected to coercion Bills—he considered ts • ' marriages voidable would lead to all the inconveniences it introduce any fundamental changes; but he saw no such that Irish grievances ought first to have a proper considera. was intended to obviate, and it was decided that such mar thanges in these provisions to intimate an animus on their tion, and then such Bills would be needless. Par t. ltt ---( Hear, hear.) He recognised the principle that it was The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not con- riages should be made invalid. What would be done with marriages of this kind contracted abroad. At Hambargb, le“' nt Y of a State to take care how the p u bli c f u nds should template the Bill operatinlonger than to the end of August, there was a clergyman who, for a small sum of money, cele in expended ; and looking at these p ro visions on their merits 1853. He would cause such an alteration of words to be stated these marriages in the same manner as a celebrated i \ •esuld, not find cause to censure them.—(Hear, hear.) made to carry out that alteration, and this he hoped would sn eselaer, thee, the present Government or any _ other Go-. satisfy the Hon. Member opposite. personage formerly did at Gretna Green.- Whether these marriages were lawful or not, he would not say, as he might t trulaaent. was in office, if, whilst the principle of public con- After a few words from Mr. SCULLY and The O'GORDLUT have to give a judicial opinion upon the question. Mu was steadily adhered to, these questions of detail m anon , Lord CAMPBELL said, there was great misapprehension buld he dealt with in a liberal spirit, he hoped that Mem- Mr. COGAN thought it might b e a d v i sa bl e t o l e t th e Bill upon this.subject, that these marriages were lawful. This ets of that House who possessed great influence would not be in operation only so long after December, 1852, as those • A • contract them, and then the number of a induce. parties to eta, crease the difficulties of the questions by attaching exalt- criminals i n cus tody could have their trial these marriages was brought as an argument for their being aerated i m p or t a nce to these changes now before them, or to The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER considered allows:'. I n t ac t, these marriages were, before the passing 3 othe r c h an ges of a similar nature , that might hereafter the concession of Government, in altering the time of the of L or d L yn dh urs e s Act, and are now, illegal. These mar introduced. (Hear, hear.) Bill to August, )853, ought to be satisfactory. riages stood upon the same footing as marriages contracted Alr. Huge: was a l w ays of opinion that these schools Mr. le SCULLY would consent to no concession. He within - of consanguinity. With Te em the prohibited degrees es cl ne ver go on harmoniously, unless the committees and thought the Bill ought not to go beyond the nex t session. Bard to the fact referred to of parties going to foreign cone note tinny wen t b a nd in hand. He had, he sh ou ld sa y, r. J. ho adopted the suggestion of the Go- tries to contract these marriages, he should caution all men th end amongst th e c l er gy a disposition to exact more power yarnneat, ugh he stood alone on that side of the House. against nrso .He had hoped -that, after the overwhelm titan, laymen were inclined to allow them. He felt certain It was cercainly an improvement on th e or i g i na l terms of ing majority 15 ., ith which the former Bill was passed, the 4 . unless they secured competent schoolmasters, as well the Bill _to alter the limit to the 31st of August, 1953. He agitation would cease, but it still went on. Allusion had been , good salaries as by assurance against the caprices of the should agree to that alteration, reserving to hi m self the made to the ptactics in foreign Protestant countries, which ( 1 7gy, education would not be advanced in this country.— right of still further limiting the operat i oi r of the Bill at a allowed these marriages, but the marriage between an uncle ( Steer, hear.) By the present proceedings he thought the future stage if he thought fit. and his niece was also allowed. He would ask them, would lieoerument were sewing the seeds of discord, and that all Mr. F. SCULLY again repeated that he could listen to they follow that example? They should act for themselves, r 4r niony of feeling and action would be destroyed as a con- no compromise. and do what was right. t bence.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. V. SCULLY said the Chancellor of the Exchequer The Bishop of ST. A SAPH agreed with the Noble and tt nlr. W. MILES said that the Committee of Privy Council was not in a condition to offer a cempr ou n se . H a d th e Bill Learned Lord, that they ought upon this subject, rather than k: Elucation and the National Society were not acting to- not been closely looked into it would have been made to ex- imitate the of • i n countries, be an example to "hi • l The system had therefore not worked conduct fore g *0 er harmonious y.tend—he would not say by a " dodge" —to the 18'4 He others. year J . The question with regard tothe Bible on this point i lls d , and thwi, , alterations had been made to obviate those wished the Bill to be limited to that time, and that time was settled. Would any Englishman petition to marry the urinenienclit He thanked the Committee of Privy Council only, when the question would be brought forward for full widow of hi s b rother? These ma rriages were always void, C e sli • these alterations to be made, as they entirely did a t owing and final discussion. . but could only be tried in the ecclesiastical courts ; but in le, with the jealousies entertained of their superintendence After some more discussion, and when them there could be no punishment but for their souls' sake. ' t he National Society. The CHAIRMAN was about to pat the amendment, What he meant was, that it would be for the good of society t h eir .u. vERNEY was understood to say, in explanation, Mr. F. SCULLY objected to the amendment being put, that punishment was given.. He was quite satisfied that ti .t, he wished the clergymen and the Privy Council to be on the ground that sufficient discussion had not been given these marriages were repudiated, and that all the woman of „alters of the propriety of the removal of the schoolmaster, to the question.—(Laughter.) this countryea would be found opposed to them. not the bishop. Another discussion ensued. The. Bishop of SA.aISBURY expressed his great astonish k th. r. J. ABEL SMITH said that these minutes extended 31r. M. J. O'CONNE LL wou ld b e sorry t o h av e a division ment at the statement made by the Noble Earl that a great t t s power of the clergyman, and that, in the present state of on reporting progress. He h o ped G overn ment w ould re- m a jority of the bench of bishops were of opinion that there tt i e Church, was objectionable. He was a dissentient from consider the matter, and accept the offer of an earlier month was no foundation in Scripture for the prohibition of these li t e se changes, and he did not think that they would work —May, for instance—as suggested by the Hon. Member for marriages. It would, not become him to say what was the aeficially. He wished to know the causes which led the Tavistock. opinion of the majority of his Right Rev. Brethren—he t t ' v erntnent to make these alterations, so important and so The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was would leave that to the Noble Earl—but this he would say, te ns' - in their nature. In the speech of the Secretary impossible to alter the determination of having the date the et c , It e that he never heard any statement with so much &ste t!, otate. (Mr. Walpole) that was entirely omitted. He 31st August, 1853. That ques ti o n h a d b een already well nishment. He knew that the Most Rev. Prelate the Arch eaght there was a design in that omission, and conceal- considered, and he trusted Hon. Gentlemen opposite would bishop of Canterbury founded his opposition to the measure tes• He' looked upon this course with the greatest pain not delay its progress by further opposition. for allowing these marriages on the ground of Scripture, t o - aPprehension. He thought this step would be injurious Mr. V. SCULLY would not be a party to inflict the Bill on and the position taken b his R* ht Rev. Brother the Bishop y ig t he Church which it professed to benefit. The cense tiut Ireland until the 31st August. of Exeter in his able ar was also mainly founded gument ntilees would be to weaken the real power of the clergy- Mr. F. SCULLY moved that the Chairman report pro- upon Scripture. Only one Right Rev. Prelate did express P 8 d , and widely to extend the seeds of jealousy and ill will. grass. i a doubtful or perhaps a pos i t i ve opinion that the ground of is i ,,denied that there had been dissension be There The gallery was cleared f o r a d i vision, but none took surprised a t th e statement of the Noble Earl, but he was k a a l ,t indeed, been dissension between the committee of the place, Mr. Scully having withdrawn his motionfor reporting still more astonish e d at the statement that a ma j or ity of ana l onal Society and the Privy Council, but the National progress. the parochial clergy were in favour of an alteration of the ta 'etY itself, by a large majority, had approved of the The Committee then divided on the question of filling u P present law. ar e n„ sgernent clauses. They said they were, upon the whole the blank, when there appeared— . Earl ST, GERMANS —The parochial clergy of large f t t`ed and judicious. Would the Hon. Gentleman, in the For the Government proposition ... lO4 towns. , 11 I le ' of the paper he held in his hand, and bearing the signa- Against it.....-... . The Bishop . of SALISBURY believed that some of the tin t " of the majority of the National Socieiy, venture to say, Majority . OOO••.---93 parochial clergy of large towns did express an opinion in t a the society was in favour of these changes? There The remaining clauses having been agreed to, favour of these marriages, . but their opinions would he of as i amendments, togreaterweight '' t i ., iannony in the meeting this year, but, looking at the The CHAIRMAN reported the Bill, with . if they had not c upled them with arguments e i ;,and of the harmony—namely, the withdrawal of the re- the House. which were not maintainable. Nothing, however, was more t o 'tlon by the Archdeacon of Taunton—there was no ground ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL. clear than that the opinion of the parochial clergy was un to . ti lt er this harmony to the changes under discussion. If favourable to the permission of there marriages.— (Hear.) This Bill passed through Committee. e i ,l , e alterations had been submitted to the Archdeacon, there The petition was then orderad to lie on the table. dat have been some grounds for this supposition. DISABILITIES REPEAL BILL. • THE SMOKE NUISANCE. tl7r• P. SCHOPE said the word religious was better than On the motion for the third reading of this Bill, Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the Lord an Word o moral" upon this subject, and that the passage of the latter • Sir W. P. WOOD did not rise to oppose the It fell far Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of London, praying tl 4l would introduce great uncertainty. He believed that Bill, but to complain of its extreme me a g reness. merely be for an extension to the whole of the metropolis of the pro ti alterations in the minutes would cause great dissatisfac- short fato he requirements of the case, and would visions contained in the London Sewer Act of 1851, for or, , because indicatin a distrust of the laity regarde by the public as an instalment. , abolishing the nuisance of smoke from steam-engines and ' 4 said objected the alterations, tend- Mr. NEWDEGATE contended that the action of "Miller le, r• SLANEY be to He should oppose the fur tito produce a preponderance o f t h e c l er i c al over the lay v. Sakartons," was a collusive one. the metropolis that such a nuisance should be allowed tangent in the Church. The whole subject of education ther progress of the Bill until the law officers of the Crown to exist. . kVA ere long he considered a n d se t t led by parliament on a had had an opportunity of duly considering the novel cir- The Earl of SHAFTESBURY heartily concurred in the ts' n eiple f p ublic rating, by means of merely enabling sta- cum stances in which this action at law had placed the ques te ° p prayer of the petition. The nuisance arising from smoke le a for separate education. tion. He moved that the Bill be read a third time that day was injurious - both to the health and to the pockets of the lr's r• J• EV ANS said the address presented to the Arch- three months. e •J. 1 I people. He had been assured by an extensive manufacturer 11 ''' ) lt of Canterbury represented that the priestly power in Mr. CONOLLY seconded the amendment. who consumed his own smoke, that he had saved thereby in a not to be increased, and that if it were, Mr. R. PALMER defended the Bill, which had been tt e Church ought fuel and coal no less than 3001. a year. from the National Societushered 14'e would he a great secession y- d in under no less distinguished auspices than those The petition was ordered to lie on the table. minute extremely ' a te considered the alterations in the - of . Lor Lyndhurt. The measure, which was confined to the COUNTY • COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION BILL. tart and objectionable. object of sweeping out of the statute-book some of the most Lord BROUGHAM, in moving the adoption of the Corn gl, he discussion then dropped. extravagant and absurd provisions which had ever defaced mons' amendments, explained the nature and character of Sir JURY (METROPOLITAN DISTRICT) . BILL, our ti l l e e g o is t l i :. e ti r on fi had passed the scrutiny of the Law Lords those amendments. One of them was to increase the sale taa'• J. GRAHAM alluded to this Bill as of greatempor- of h to conceive whaotesree of Pa b r l hameut, and be was at a loss ries of the judges of the coUnty . courts. By this amend- IZe, and as one which he must oppose at some lengt. the Bill. The measu a reasonable si objection could be started to ment these judges were to receive a minimum salary of le' e r these circumstances, he hoped it would not be pressed simply with. justic . e, and . h.e 1,200/. a year, which might be increased to 1,500/. at the hh e . thought the House would be acting little wisdom if it ofthe high la w au thorities of the country. discretion. i n r this session. he believed that the cousepted to retain these monstrous and extravagant dis aVe ATTORNEY-GENERAL said be of abilities. Another amendment was that these judges should be pro toration of the law the Bill was to introduce would opposed by After a few words from Mr. ANSTEY, who was of opinion hibited from practising as counsel, barristers, specialpleaders, ths at ehenefit, and he regretted that it was to be it that the measure was quite inadequate, conveyancers, or attorneys, and that they should strictly con- It -4 ight Hon. Gentleman As it was so, however, Mr. WALPOLE said that he had al lino themselves to their judicial duties. The only alteration o w. , • d of the ways opposed the • e te e '"- be impossible to carry it forward at this perio . admission of Jews to Parliament, and would continue to d this amendment was this, that as which he would suggest in aile•Oet, and he must reluctantly consent to withdraw it. s o,—(Hear, hear.) . The question before the House,. o conveyancers and others who might be appointed judges 't ' lON. i lq t ESS OF THE HOUV.—THE PROROGAT ever, ten., now -0 whether certain penalties should be retained, and under the Bill might have unfinished business in hand, °l'i r t :, , l. WILSON said he dad been appealed to not to these he thought ought to be swept awa y, which it would be inconvenient to transfer to others; instead tt4e,iorward to-day his motion as to the state of the sugar Mr. HUDSON advised the Hon. Member for North War- of being restricted from practising "from and after the Of th ri lea. in order to facilitate the conclusion of the business . ckshire to withdraw his opposition. passing of this Act," the words should be foar, ant' House. He was anxious to assent to the suggestion, Wi alr. NEWDEGATE said he was satisfied with the state- five, or six months from and after the passing of this Act. 0 ^ w ouldonly beg if possible, he might have some . • offl ime Secretary that his hostility to the a , leis- The onl amendment to which he anticipated any objection k i, (l , that, , ment the , badrtunity to bring the question before the House.to Parliament continued unabated, and would was that .hick referred to the prohibition of barristers " of the EXCHEQUER.—Sir, I have , sion of Jews . mendinent. practising in the county courts without being instructed by Lr CHANCELLORbothsides of the House that its I not press his a • 1 an amendment for the purpose an attorney or solicitor. In those county courts alone— issie epresentations from 4.NSTEY movet whether rest or small nness should be terminated as soon as possible.—(Hear, I Mr. . the Bill to persons others than Members of rovinces g . , whether in the metropolis or in the 4 1 4 ,7 Tbete representations have come quite as often from of extending as p a there a statutory prohibition on an advocate 1/O's t loess opposed to the Government as from our own sup- Parliament. discussion, the House divided, when there from receiving instructions directly from his client, without I d t-et ' s (Hhear,)—and it isnot for our own convenience After a brief the interventionof an attorney. The rule and etiquette of a n ear, cede to the suggestion.— appeared— the profession prevented him from going into court unin (lV that we are anxious to ac ... .. 4 I have appealed' to For the amendment 0 strutted by an attorney or solicitor, but there was no posi 111ee,4,1•') Under these circumstances not to Against it ..• • • five rule preventing him from seeing his client in chamber in AN - tiers on both sides having notices on the paper of Majority against.the matters of a delicate and private nature which he did not . ' l tic s i the m —( Hear.) I think that there is a prospect read a third time, and passed. te•utlin h ' • f the House by the end of this The Bill was then wish to communicate_ even to his solicitor. Now, why not eels. f e g t e business o I have chalked out.— (Hear, COMMON LAW PROCEDURE BILL. leave the barristers practising in these courts, as those prac t}7ar.) we proceed in the courset into any arrangement with The Lords'• amendments to the Bill were considered and tising in all other courts, to the usage and custom of the ,te y q _ l cannot therefore . en . er forward this subject: and agreed to. profession? It was said ' that they would be too far removed "lo e — 'un• Member as to bringing it •nh 1 • • I hope he will postpone MASTER IN CHANCERY ABOLITION BILL. from the-supervision of the heads of the profession, and that l iii admit its great importance, The Lords' amendments were considered and agreed to. there would not be a sufficient check upon them. But if g x, text session. 'a il • WILSON assented. The MASTER of the ROLLS brought up a clause giving persons were inclined to act unprofessionally, he thought Is eet r . - . . amended was ele. e. , i Ina Ballot Suspension Bill, as amen , con- compensation to the chief clerks in the same manner as to they would be much more likely to do it, and to do s ''' andalso the Militia Pay Bill. ,„ „ agreed to ;as was the Masters , it with impunity, in, a crowded city like Loudon Ile s ' e t lE PATENT LAW AMENDMENT BILL. Mr CARTER opposed the clause, which, after some dis- than in a country town, where they would be narrowly N I- 'ill went into Committee.' cussion, was agreed to. watched. He approved of the etiquette of requiring bas t, ei p laufie 26, The Holloway House of Correction Bill was read a third risters to be instructed by attornies ; because in 99 Cases out tI ePt ree ,GUNDELL PALMER gave notice that, unless the I time and 'passed. get he did not see how it would otherwise be possible to - "lent themselves proposed, 0 alter this Bill in the i The Rollo they Adjolllind at Half-pg 4 Two o'clock, i eg—w examiin Witnesses, tor jultace, and, ether t4ing3 THE S U EVENING, TUESDAY of that kind. He hoped, therefore, their Lordships would agree to the amendment by which the county courts would he placed on the same footi ng as ot h er cour t s in this re spect. The amendment h a d rece i ved t h e recommen d a ti on of the law officers of the Crown in the other House, both past and present. He thought also that it would be desirable to prevent attproies from acti ng as Advocates.. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the subject was one of great importance; indeed it could scarce ly , be . overrated.. If he had been a Member of th e i r L or d s hi ps House when this question had been discu sse d he never wou ld h ave agree d to the introduction'of those words by which barristers were prevented from practising in the courts without the inter vention of an attorney. He never would have agreed to words which must lead to consequences injurious to the pro fession of barristers. But whether they s tigmatised the members.of the bar by sayi ng t h at they should not d o w h a t was disreputable or Opposed t o the g eneral fee li ng o f the profession was another questi on. The bar was not amenable to the Judges, but the memb ers of it were amena bl e to their own societies, and if they m i sconducted themselves b y act ing as attornies it would be anitnadverted on by the society, and if persevered in the party w ou ld b e di s b arre d. Besides, if a man belonged to a p ro f ess i on, the air he breathed, t h e society lie mixed with, ma d e bins obedient to the rules of the profession, e,and he would b e considered an outcast f rom that profession 1f he perse vere d in the course which this pro vision struck at. He wo u ld never have agreed to a law which cast a stigma on th e profession of the bar; bat t h e law having been passed, he would not have proposed the repeal. of this clause, feari ng t h at by so doing he might b e thought te give his sanction to a measure which he repu diated. But this clause having been rejected by the House of Commons, and the Bill coming down with the recom mendation of the law officers of the Crown, he was unwilling to reject this amendment, the c onsequen ce of which would he that the bar would be in the same, position in the county courts that it eeopd in hear.) If the bar was breught into disrepute by the con duct of its members, no one wo u ld .he more ready than he should be to strike at that conduct, and to restore the pro feesion to that position which it ought to have in public esti mation. He thought that in the county courts each grade of the profession should maintain its own rank. The at torney should never seek to invade the profession of the all other courts.—(Hear, barrister, and the barrister should never be allowed to de grade himself—he used the words because he was speaking of grades—by practising as an attorney—( Hear, hear.) If each maintained his own position, without interfering with that of the other, they would find it the beat, for maintaining their particular dignity and even interest. —(Hear.) Lord LYNDHURST supported the amendment, and said the only means of defence which the barristers had consisted in their power of overstepping the usual'etiquette in cases whereat was necessary. Lord CAMPBELL said he should withdraw his opposi tion to the amendment. His only object was to prevent the two branches of the professio n from encroaching on each other,' in the county courts or a ny other courts. H e hoped that, after the opinions that h ad bee n e xpressed, any statutory prohibition would be unnecessary. It was clear that where there were two representati ves of the parties, one ought to be an attorney and the oth er a barrister; and he should approve of an amendment restricting one attorney from employing another as advoc a t e . -- - Lord GRAN WORTH said he should not oppose the amendment. ' . The several amendments were then agreed to THE CASE OF MR. bIeIT ILER : Lord BEAUMONT rose, acco r di ng to notic to draw the attention of the House to the. correspondence respecting the assault committed on Mr., Erskin e Mather at Florence. Noble Lord said it was some time since the papers bad been laid on the table, and their Lord s hi ps had had full oppor tunity of becoming acquainted with their contents. Though they in professed som e degreeto re refer a r to personalaa incident of character and far more important questions h a d arisen in the course of the negotiations on that subje c t. Moreover, it would have been observed that what a t first seemed a ease simple in itself and easily arranged, h ad been so conducted in its subsequent stages that it n ow appeared something t , u othernfo r t ang rave ae, t but like a Gordian knot.—(Hear, hear.) It had attracted great attention both in and out of, Parliament. it had been the had been com mented on in many of the public prints. Moreover severe charges had been brought, regardin g the conduct of this business, ‘ against the Government; a n d it li subject of a debate in the other Ho use , and had been directly implied that sufficient attention had n o t been raade to what was due to the dignity of the cometrye Th ee _ 'es" grounds not only justifiedhim in bringing the subect forward, but almost to) countries s—th a t w hich to take some notice theo il f np os ! p d aapnors obligationla i laid b efo roen their Lordshipsbeforee s e proceeding to examine these papers, he would avoid as much as possible all that appeared merely verbal criticism, or allusions •to trivial points, . and would dwell on those on closed. In in future. matters alone in which a principle was invlved, or were i i n th to th tw es referred merely to the incident itself —a n d our t he relations subject w that which re ferred to the questions arising out of the negotiations to which the incident had led. As to the first question, it might be taken for granted that, when a n E nglishman travelled in foreign countries, he was entitled to full pro- H lik e e w ly ou to ld aff di e v c i t de tection from the Government of the gate in whose ter ritories he was travelling—that Governm ent in friendly relations with this country —so long being a s h e not only obeyed the laws of the country, but nonaplied with its usages and m anners, so f ar as no t wantonly to offend or insult even the prejudices of the people. When a person so conducting 'hi mse lf rece i ve d a wrong, if from another private individual, that was merely a question between two private persons, no way representing any authority; it be came almost the duty of the individual injured to seek re dress according to the laws of the. country in the first place, and not there and then to call in the assistance of the repre sentative of his own country to interfere in his behalf. When, however, the party inflicting the wrong on an Eng lishman was in the service of the Government of that country as ate official, or .performing any duty pl ace d upon him by that Government, the question assumed a totally different appearance. Then, instead of applyi ng to the law, in th e or di nary way, a s between individuals, the in jured party.eertainly had. a claim upon his country to de mand some .kind of reparation' for the wrong inflicted. Bearing in mind that distinction, and taking into consideration all that appeared in these papers, the examinations before what was called a judicial tribunal, and the opinions expressed in many of the dispatches by Mr. Scarlett, by Prince Lichtenstein, by Prince Schwarzen berg in Vienna, by Baron Castigliano, and even by Marshal Radetzky —he had no difficulty in saying that the narration he was about to give, in a few words, was the simple plain fact and truth.—(llere the Noble Lord narrated the facts as they have already appeared.) It was as clear as possible, from the ovideace before their Lordships, that Mr. Mather had in no way. either by gesture, word, o r motion, attempted to insult the officer or do anything which he ought to re sent. Whatever the officer ; m -- ght afterwards say was the impression on hianind, it -- Was clear the youth had no in tention whatever to insult him or any ot h er pere on. For it seemed at when the brother. went to Prince Lichten stein, and was telling his story, th e Prince, having heard a different story from the officer, said--" Oh, but your brother put his arm thus." " No," said the yo uth, " he did not do that, but merely turned round to ask the meaning of the blow from the- officer." Prince Lichten stein said afterwards distinctly that the result of this inquiry instituted among the soldiers was entirely i n conformity with what Mr. Mather 's broth er had told him, confirming the fact that the youth had not in any wa y put uo his hand. Again, one of the gendarmerie stated, "The Englishman in no way offended the Aust r i ans , Even Radetzky said— .. The accident was without intending any offence on the part of the Englishman." The evidence was equally clear that the offending officers-had no intention whatever to in sult or injure any Englishman. Th e cer t a i n ly did not know the man was an Englishman,Z could have had no anti-English feeling in the steps taken. Nor had they any individual or personal feeling against Mr. Mather, being ignorant of who of what he was. Th e f act was they took him for an Italian ; and they The to have been in the habit of spurning Italians eta o f did the way, as' they dogs.— (Hear, hear.) Finding' this ma n a little too near, they had treated him as , they w ere ~, 'n the habit of treating the Tuscans when they came - i n y and if there their was any feeling in the case, it was the anytiana;tional feeling that existed between the Austrians and the Tuscans. As soon as the wounded man was cona e the y t o the hospital brother went to Mr. Scarl e tt - and, ed subseauently, it , ap e that both the brother and 11,er. Mather relied on Mr. Scarlett. They did not c s P-e tr 3- what the wished, further than u3ing the word Judicialredrss y l eft allhis judgment. They neither asked for a j inquir e to for damages; in fact, Mr. Scarlett had the matt ntiorel y in hi s own hands. At first, it seemed, l Mr. Scarlett h n ad r ient the youth with a letter to Prince Lic tenstein, sav .__ me "He is a very good-natured man, and he will hear .y.4 - rs's elt would have been better had Mr. Scarlett hi -nselfstory. into the matter, and decided whether-he Magi* to examined unofficially with the Austrians, or officially w i th the proceed Tnscan Government. The youth was well received by se ri _ "" Lichtenstein, who gave full faith to his story. ' Mr. Se , ariett, a t any rate, had it in his power to write home 'for i etioog. , Through out the whole of the proceedings, Mr. b lather had invariebly sought to leave everything to the J er i - ginent and discretion of the Government here, en* of Mr. ~,,e 1 Florence. all applied me P Mr. Scarlett first of °fat, ar ett at ally an d there cer tainly seemed to have been con ie B— erable inclination on the part of the Austrian authorities, in ter "" early and subse quent stages, to have arranged the met , r ' unofficially. The ' impression on his mind was that the Whole question might have been thus satisfactorily arreng d. e q -e -' because; 'when once Prince Lichtenstein was convinced , that o ' insult was intended by Mr. Mather, it was- n o t hat that he should state anything farther. os ~ necessary Lieutenant Forsthuber, had been u nd :ue officer on service, r Lieutenant Rub, arrest, as well as difficult who was not on duty, a „_, 11 expres egre nom been made, there . wous st been little yin ng to an arrangeie ht :" have parties did not want any compensation, the ,especially as . honour of ton country was attacked i t nut thought the thei r The reparation ght to have been an ap e l ogv , persons. nature that it might have been considered n ' - 0 that general tion to the Englishman injured, but an ac O t k _ only a reparae . the right of Englishmen to be protected i n e qnsyledgmeat tot tries. Mr. Scarlett might have arranged this outtnental coun cially. Not having done so, he had no is unoffi ceed officially. The moment he was left to c r but to pro was rid of the whole case.—(Hear, hear.) il , ao Austria said by a high authority that Mr. Scarlett t had been applying officially to Tuscany, that h e ought washat: wrong in to the Austrian authorities. What * mi l d ha: have gone case had he done so? This would at onceh: been the official acknowledgment that Tuscan s was have been an Austria.—(Hear, hear.) Austria, ne doubt e over to been very - ready and anxious to make any re, would have the sake of having it acknowledged tint she Wieasaration, for to be applied to for injuries done iu Tusca n the party that Tuscany was part of Aifitria.—(elear, hearin effect, that we should never have been able to treatl') After an independent power. All our negociatious pith ny as to commerce, ,or any other subj t ec e must then h regard edly have been • addressed to Austria,. from the undoubt which we ourselves had placed her.—(Hear.) Ersition in maintained that Mr. Scarlett and the Govern me ent g ee therefore, m pletely right in saying that Tuscany should be es were com long as she maintained her independen ce ._ r that v i v ersible as rising the rights she must take the obligations w hile exer pendent power.—( Hear.) Up to that time the laten inde ment were in power. One passage in these preeeedGovern was at a loss to understand. It was contained in .ings he from Lord Granville to Lord 'Westmoreland, and a dispatch lows:—But if this inquiry is not fairly conductwas as fol fluence isused to suppress the truth, the British ed, and in will be obliged to seek for reparationlor this onus Government unoffending and unarmed Britisli subject from Austfieatpon an seemed rather inconsistent; for haying once That decla • • Tuscany was responsible, how could,they travel out ree f l that cany and go to any other power of *rope ? T en the '3 Tus- Austria refusing, they Might as well have gone to the of man Diet, and so rou'id the continent.—(Hear, hear.; 'te r ; were bound to fix on one power, and make it responsible Up to that p o i n t t h e case was pretty clear. Then th e en .; tion arose, wh a t s h ou ld 'b e accepte d as rediess ? Thirwl not for Mr. Mather to say. It was a question between the Government of Great Britain and that of Tuscany, It was their duty t o fi x t h at, and abide b y t h e i r demand _(Hear hear.) M r . S car l ett, not at the d es i re of M. Mather, but as representing .England, claimed a full judicial inquiry. The answer of the Duke do Castigliano merely event to concede a private inquiry to ascertain the facts, but not with the slightest idea, of any verdict, or &Aug 4p y repa. JUNE 22, 1852. ration. The court of inquiry was one to which none of the Lord MALMESBURY contended that that made no dif parties were admitted. A learned advocate was employed, ference with respect to the charge against him, that he had but he was of no use. After taking down the depositions uot 'consulted the Queen's Advocate. Then, again, the of the witnesses, the powers of the t ceased. These Noble Lord and the other Noble Lord who was for some time depositions were sent to the officers, Aus trian eour his colleague, blamed him for Mr. Scarlett at all, who only obtained but . not to appealing to Tuscany at all; them on application, but that he should at once have gone to Austria. The as a favour, the Duke de Castiglian o had a right to withhold them. Mr. Scarlett that he ' . Government had only their jadgment and common sense to was thus u ' them and it seemed better to them not to recognise off in the moat insulting manner. .Of course there was no in f any way , the occupation of Tuscan b Austria. Bat he verdict or sentence, and the whol e m i ght d t hear the Noble Lord y make such an ex parts parte proceeding. This might be said in be .. called an was astonishe o inquiries of this kind in Tuscany were purity themselves, its fa tion for he must have remembered tbat no longer ago than compared with those in some of the Roman Staten our; 1849 ' the same regiment, and he believed the same officer, As far as the inquiry went, it appeared - so ( gear, were in Tuscany, where they committed very gross out hear.)been fairly managed; there had been no threateningl ve rages and • icted great injury on. British property. And la e to find that Lord Palmerston,. tampering with the witnesses; and the result was, t h at r in writing to Sir G. Hamilton, yet what was his astonishment the Englishman gave no offence to the Austrian by whom on the Bth of August, 1319, he was cut down.-(Hear, hear.) When the present G expressly declared that he considered the Tuscan Govern vernment came into office, they had all these particulars 3- tt m ohy e e n iee t ac r in es e p d o e n e s t i r b i l n e e f a ur en the outrages so , committed. e He held the 30th of April following, in writing before them ; and there was a demand for redress. He regretted that first course taken by the Noble Noblen was accused by the ()ent Ponsonby atVienna. `lace . Earl opposite was not a b becoming one, or one that ought to the ox Lord, in another place, of dishonouring Mr. Mather; have been adopted under any circumstances. The Noble awe ectitital.eacter and independence y r e s g aion used being that he bad dishonoured . and taken of an independent Earl (Malmeabury) invited Mr. Mather to do what was the English duty of the Government to assess the damages in the pond- that in a case triedan' and he observed aim some since, ing case, he being a party concerned. Anything more ex- where a person in the city of D ' of these But that was not so; time. traordinary than that was almost impossible. Mr. Mather who had charg e of gave 500 ~ had steamed unwilling to give any opinion, and repeated which the Chief Ju • was lost through the negligence 1 a steamer, the company almost twenty times that he wished to leave it to the Go- Saturday, the 22d, On st,e said was very creditable indeed. he vernment to decide - that it was for Lord Maltnesbury to thoueht the matter he received the dispatch, by which say what he thought was due to the honour of the country. did not consider the w as finally settled, and although he -( Hear, hear.) If Lard Malm es b ur y h a d M therefore stated thinking that r. arran gement satisfactory, and not what ought to have been done, Mr. Mather wou ld no t h ave ti ons as to the amount 7 had complied with his direc had another word to say; but it was too hard to force him Bulwer to that effect. Other m9ne e s, he wrote to Sir H enr y to assess the amount of redress, afte r h e h a d so man y t i mes time, which he bad n o t opened is Patches arrived at the same disclaimed the task. Even in the passag e i n w hi c h M r . h a d to observe th a t be h ad otb e ia Mather mentioned the 5,000/ e he refused to consider the had to attend Foreign Ministersr explanation of this he dutie s to perform. He to Monday in .I:arliarnent. It was -th ree question, without reference to British honour and interests. Cabinet Councils. and also his Place her 'Majesty's Council, the eFbad not opened It had been said that that earn was too much ; but it was not true that from Saturday a had done 'Ywitirleoeutened that counting long since a similar occurrence had taken place. A Mr. these dispatches. The business of Churchill, who was at Censtantinople, went out shooting, its recent years greatly increased; flea and was taken up as a poacher, and brought before tha dispatches, in and out, came to that office' Cadi by the proprietor of the land. The Cadi had him bas- enclosures, in the course of a year. If he had by the n - tinadoed, and set bins at liberty. At this insult to a British dispatch, he would not have given the answer subject groat public feeling was aroused ; and first to Mr. Mather. The most painful matter in the t of all, the Government insisted upon the dismissal of the was, that Mr. Scarlett had deviated from his iniatarus:%tins.o Cadi. They very nearly likewise got the brother-in-law of which, notwithstanding what had been said the Sultan into a scrape fur defending the functionary in Prime Minister, were clear and precise. They were threeae question; and they made the Turkish Government pay in number. The first was, that the responsibility should be 4,000/. to Mr. Churchill. But now, although this gentle- thrown upon Tuscany of protecting British subjects within man got 4,000/. for a slight bastinado -( Laughter)-here its territories. Secondly, that he should obtain 500/. as an was an Englishman nearly killed-and he (the Noble Lord) indemnity to Mr. Mather, and that no less sum should be regretted to hear that Mr. Mather had been again confined accepted, and if there was any doubt upon that matter Mr. to his apartment-and it was said that 5,000/. was too much. Scarlett's own words would show it, when he said, "he took - (Hear, hear.) As soon as a money compensation had upon himself the responsibility of accepting the smaller been agreed to, it became a question of bargain; the English sum." The third was equally plainly stated. It was that, Government was to set to work, and, in the language of the if he failed in these points, he was to wait until that able Noble Earl, try to "get what they could." It certainly did and experienced diplomatist, Sir Henry Bulwer, arrived. not appear that the Noble Earl was able to play the Jew He had never received any explanation why he had not nearly so well as the Luscan Government. The Noble done so. He regretted that Mr. Scarlett should have made Earl's instructions to our agent were that 5,0001 was exor- this error, bat he could not blame himself, under such cir bitant, but that he must get what he could; and here he cumstances, for writing to Sir Henry Bulwer to renew the (Lard Beaumont) must say that the Noble Earl had stated negotiations. what was really not quite borne out by the facts, namely, Lord CAMPBELL should not have risen to address their that Mr. Mather considered that the injury was one that Lordshipsun this subject had not Mr. Scarlett been his own might be atoned for by money. Mr. Mather had always said relative, and did he not feel bound to defend him from the jest the contrary; and the statement of the Noble Earl had harsh comment which had been made on his conduct. His had a most damaging effect upon' him in the opinion of relative well deserved everytbing that could be said in his foreigners, who had applauded his spirit in treating it, nos favour. He had served under Lord Aberdeen and Viscount as a personal, bat as a national injury. - ( Hear, hear.) But Palmerston, and earned the approbation of both. The Noble the Noble Earl went •on to see what could be got. He ap- Earl said the remedy to be sought in the case was the ordi plied to Austria, but that poe er very wisely declined to pat nary remedy to be obtained in an English court of law. He the screw on Tuscany, and would have nothing more to do differed from the Noble Earl on that point, and maintained with the matter. When the 5,000/. was mentioned to the that the case was one for the immediate interference of the Tuscan Government, it was horrified at the amount, and at Government.-(Hear, hear.) If Mr. Mather would have once denied its responsibility. Indeed, he must say that its accepted of an apology the whole matter might have been conduct throughout had been most disgraceful.-(Hear, amicabiy settled, for Mr. Scarlett had made all the necessary hear.) The Noble Lord ought now to have taken steps to arrangements, and Mr. Mather replied in the most un insist on his demand; and he must do him the justice to qualified terms that he would not accept of an say that he had never given up the question of Tuscany's apology from the whole Austrian army-he insisted responsibility-(Hear, hear) -although Mr. Scarlett, in a on an investigation. In judging of the final result 1 paper which had been laid upon the table that day, appeared their Lordships must take into account the large dis to have done so But the Noble Earl, instead of insisting cretion left in the h an d s o f M r . Scarlett, who was told to on what he had demanded, said, " Well, try to get 500 /." get an annuity, w ith out b e i ng to ld whether it was to amount Then there seemed to have.been some disposition at Vienna to 5/. or 1001. a year, or what Mr. Mather would have got to help Tuscany, and to pay the money for it; but of from a jury in England-a very doubtful matter. The in course this could not be accepted on the prin. et:action on that subject was an exceedingly strange one. ciple laid down by the Noble Earl The Noble Lord, Mr. Scarlett was instructed to tell the Tuscan Government however, never lost sight of the bargain, and when that the 5,000/. asked by Mr. Mather was exorbitant. i he could not get ewe h e p r op ose d an arbitration. H e N ow , h e th oug h t i t wou ld be just as prudent and as discreet did not seem to c are f ro m w hom he received the money, not to instruct Mr. Scar lett to show the dispatch to the Go provided that it only appeared to come from T uscany . vernmen t of Tuscany.-(Hear.) Besides, the Tuscan Go- At this point Mr.' Scarlett sickened, and then Mr. Barron vernment were themselves asked, in one dispatch, to fix the appeared on the scene. He sent home a great dispatch, an- sum which they would give. They were informed that such nouncing the glorious news that the question was settled, not a sum would be expected, not as Mr. Mather would have ob by the payment of 5,0001, as Mr. Mather had demanded, tained from an English court, but what he would have been nor of 1 000/. which the Government could not get, nor awarded by a Tuscan court. Yet in an o th er di spatch the 504. which they had consented to take, nor by a r bit ra ti on T uscan G overnment were told that such compensation would w hich they had offered. An unfortunate thousand frances- be expected a s wou ld h ave b een awar d e d by an English coni was all that could be got, but then there was some- court if Mr. Mather had been cut down by hustling one thing more. Two Stratfords, whom he (Lord Beaumont) of the Guards in Hyde-park. The Noble Earl found really believed had been gu ilty o f some great offence, were fault with Mr. Scarlett for settling this matter till the thrown in to make up for the loss. He (Lord Beau- arrival of Sir H. Bulwer; bat in a dispatch of the 27th mont) did not suppose th a t the Government here were of April he was instructed to bring matters to an imme consulted as to that arrangement, but it was one of the diate termination before Sir H. Bulwer arrived. And it most extraordinary that could be conceived. Because A was under the pressure of that dispatch that the nego had done an injury to B, B was to receive reparation by tiations were brought to a conclusion. Th e three charges the exemption 01 C and D, who had done an injury to F. against Mr. Scarlett were that he took less than 500/., This was the monstrous p r i nc i p l e o f the arrangement; and that he surrendered the responsibility of the Tuscan Govern by it the Tuscan Government escaped all responsibility meat, and that he mixed up the case of the Stratfords whatever. Nay more, the Duo de Castigliano actually went with that of Mr. Mather. Now, with regard to the first so far as to say that the money was not paid as a reparation charge, Mr. Scarlett was left with very vague instructions for the injury that had been done, but that it was given to at first. He was then told that h e mus t h as ten the Mr. Mather out of the singular liberality of the Grand conclusion of the negotiations before the arrival of Sir Duke-that it was, in fact, given to him as they would give H. Bulwer. Under these circumstances, it was not sur money to a beggar who had no c l a im upon them. That prising that he consented to accept less than 500/. Now, was the manner in which Mr. Mather and this country had with regard to the surrender of the responsibility of been insulted. - (Hear, hear.) A long correspondence of the Tuscan Government, he admitted that if Mr. Scarlett an extraordinary kind betwe en Mr.. Mather and the Noble had acquiesced in the terms of the Duke of Castigliano's Earl, and concluded by a pi t h y l e t ter f rom Mr. John Blight, letter of the 10th of May, he would have surrendered was likewise appended to the p a p ers; but he (Lord Beau- the responsibility of that Government. But he did no such moat) owned that it appeared to hi m to have nothing to do thing, for, in the letter of .the 11th of May, he piotested with the question before him, which was far too importa n t t o against the Dake of Castigli ano ' s interpretation, and reas be mixed up with matters of that kind. He (Lord Beaumont) sorted the principle, which he had already laid down in his maintained that so long as the present state of things con- letter of the 17th of March, to which he referred, as to the tinned in Italy, and so long as that country was occupied responsibility of the Grand Ducal Government.-(Hear.) by Austrian tortes, so long would occurrences of this The Noble Lord, therefore, was quite mistaken in supposing kind be taking place. All their negotiations connected that Mr. Scarlett had su r r en d er ed one i o t a o f T uscan respon with central Italy were in an unnatural position. Unfor- Lability. The third charge was that Mr. Scarlett had mixed tunately it had been the policy of Austria to encourage up the case of Ihe -Stratford. with that of Mr. Mather. Now every kind or misgovernment in the Roman and Tuscan he knew a good deal about the case of the Stratfords, because states, in order that they might cont ras t unfavourably with he happened to be in Florence at the time. These two Lombardy. They had u rge d on th e wretched states gentlemen, the sons of Lord Aldborough, were tried for an of Parma, Mod ena , and T uscan y t o adopt systems hostile offence against the Tuscan Government, before an Austrian to civil and religious liberty ; and had oven gone so courtemartial, and were sentenced to be shot. Th it, was a far as to thre a ten wh a t littl e goo d existed in the violation of international law;' and if redress had pot been last, und e r the laws of L eo p o ld 11. These attempts given, he had no hesitation in saying that it would have on the pa r t of Austria had been assisted by what was called justified a declaration of war. The shooting of these gentle the clerical party, who, a c ti ng upon th e feeble, priest-ridden men was not carried into effect, it was true, but they sovereigns, bad brought a ff a i rs i nto suc h a state as would were kept in rigorous imprisonment. Now was it almost jus'ify a general risi ng o f th e p eo ple of cent ra l I ta l y, not proper and right that this matter should be brought to a both against their soverei gns an d th e i r foreign allies, by termination? It was brought to a termination, but the case whom those states were occupi e d. Perhaps, indeed, before of the St ra tf or d s w as not mixed up with that o f M r . long such a rising would become inevitable. Under these Mather, t o t h e i n j ur y of the latter, for these gentlem en were circumstances it was the' duty of Great Britain, as one o f liberated from prison on the 7th of May, iu consequence of the great powers of Europe, to urge upon the sovereigns of Mr. Scarlett's letter of the 6th. He believed that the more these countries such a social amelioration, and such inn. th ese papers were considered the less the blame which would provements in their governments, as would render attach to the conduct of Mr. Scarlett, and the more it would unnecessary the presence of the Austrian troops to assist in a pp ear t h at h e h a d faithfully carried out the instructions enforcing their police regulations. Austria would then be which had been sent to him.-(Cheers.) obliged, upon demand, to retreat, and our position in those The Earl of ABERDEEN said it was satisfactory to know countries would be placed upon a national and proper footing, that no national differences were now at issue on this ques- He trusted that the Government would endeavour to do its tion ; for from the first moment in which it was clearly as duty, as it did in 1834, when it urged upon the Papal States certained that this violence and outrage which was corn-- the necessity of social reforms; and believing that such mitted was unpremeditated and done in ignorance, however events would be likely to be repeated, he thought that they the injury to the individual might remain, the insult to the would not meet the merits and justice of the case until some country was done away with, for nations, like individuals, great steps were taken to remove the anomaly of the three must not regard as an insult what was declared not to be duchies of Tuscany, Parma, and Modena being any longer intended as such.-(Hear, hear.) With regard to the in held by the Austrians.-( Hear, hear.) He should conclude jury to the individual, and the redress due for that injury, with a motion, namely, that there should be an address he was disposed to agree with the Noble and Learned Lord praying that such papers should be laid before Parliament, in thinking that that redress might be demanded from containing the instructions to Sir Henry Bulwer, as would either party-from the Tuscan or the Austrian Govern show, under present circumstances, what was the proper ment-but he should say preferably from the Austrian. reparation to be now demanded, and what was the nature of Though it might be very well to say that you wished that which had been demanded from the Government of to insist on the independence of Tuscany, that did not alter Tuscany.-(Hear.) the nature of the existing facts, for with regard to the Aus- The Earl of MALMESBURY would not detain their trian army, Tuscany was not independent, and though they Lordships in going into a detailed account of the transac- might receive all the money they demanded from the Tuscan tions, because the Noble Baron, who last addressed them, Government, that would not make Tuscany independent of and to whom he was much obliged for doing so, had given the Austrian army, which was by treaty excluded from the an account of the accident or outrage which occurred, which jurisdiction of the Tuscan Goverement. The instance cited was as nearly as possible correct. When first he (Lord byethe Noble Earl of compensation received from Tuscany in Malmesbury) telt it his duty to consider the case he believed 1819 was a proof in confirmation of what he now said, for it to have been a brutal assault, for which there was no ex- the treaty by which the Austrian force was exempted from cuss - the act of a violent man-without any self-control, Tuscan jurisdiction was signed in 1850, so that it was in a and under the influence of an angry feeling, for which no very different position from that in which it was in 1849, cause was given him. He looked on it with the same indig. when it was Only an auxiliary force. But this was not a nation that every Englishman felt when the outrage was new case, for they had seen other armies of occupation -in described to their Lordships by the Noble Lord the late Se- precisely the same position as that of the Austriana e rmynow cretary for Foreign Affairs; he did not undervalue it, there- in Tuscany. That was the case with respect toFrench fore, as some persons had chosen to say against him; he o c c u p a ti on of Spain in 182 2 , under theeDuc d , A th ngoul eme. saw the brutality of the outrage, but he could not say he W e did no t th e n pretend to deny that Spain was indepen was prepared to go, as many people had done, and ap- dent during that time. We carr ied on transactions with from concerned theo- parently the Noble Lord, the head ot the late Govern- the Sanish Government, and F s eh oug ment-that Noble Lord considered it to be a national in- vernment; but where the French bl and was by treaty unable, salt, and an outrage on the honour •of this country. He Spanish Governmetntfwaa unable, hartmreydrweasss jurisdiction. The same was the case begged their Lordships to consider what the consequences to exercise any c act ° oc j cupied by the allied army, and when would be if it were laid down as a rule, that every English wbellriFirshntoercwes remained in that country after the occapa man assaulted abroad, or injured, should be identified with the t treaty with Louis XVIII. He had seen it stated in the national honour of Great Britain, and that the moment tion by the table that the illustrious Duke who com- Great Britain should also the papers on . a British subject was struck, proposed ded the British troops in Portugal to make the murder had man strike. Suppose death to have ensued-supp o se what the conse- British troops amenable to the Portuguese tribunals. He been committed, he asked their Lordship s itselt notoriously took that declaration as a statement ot the facts of the case; quences would be, if this country supposed therefore bound to bat at the same time, if such a transaction as this occurred insulted by snub results, and were, in Lisbon-if an English officer had cut down a Portuguese them with the whole strength of the empire.-(Hear, withavenge or without reason-he thought the maybe insulted in a foreign country, just as Noble Duke would hear.) Men and then they had a right to claim have had him brought before a court-martial, and would not foreigners were in this, law under which they lived ; but they deliver him over to the Portuguese tribunals. The Austrian the protection of the o to the Foreign-office, who army, therefore, in this instance, being independent of the had no right that .g justice was done them before those Tuscan Government, it seemed to him that the natural and could only see they appealed. - He, for one, - did the reasonable coarse to pursue would have been to look for tribunals to whic h tell them, that although f- redress to that power which was independent of Tuscany, t once to not scruple a . , inTuscany sub j ectandofficer the • tteu fence was committed were nogrounds for claiming the pro- the Austrian authorities seemed willing to give that redress, • nature , there . which for the officer was tried before a military court* • serious Foreign-office, unless in the case to of inquiry whi c h tection of the ntil Mr. , Mather had failed in his negotia. exculpated the officer on the ground that he had not • 1 vio at e g he alluded, °r I . ] stand? On the 2 7th of February their military code. Into the justice' of that code he would How did the case . . t - not enter further than to say that itappeared tions. Government made way for the present Admuns ra . unreasonable the late _ hcame into office he found the case of and most barbarous that a man with arms in his - • and when e . inquired . 3 hand by the Noble should be allowed to resent what he considered ton, had been previously intoto be an in Mr Mather him. If thatgentleman felt himself suit on the spot, even to the destruction of ne . . who preceded life.ll e Lord necessary for him to adopt the course an- hear.) In this country if a man presented his fist ar, insulted, 13 y it taken • hmatters usually in RUC 3O years ago. 'He officer, he presumed the officer would not touch to an him but tics happi l y blame him for doing so, and although the prat- would merely hand him over to the police , and the 1 did not . abolished, he should be sorry that of resenting on the spot what might be an imag' e notion • of duelling was u larY insult, bee mode of settling disputes were done away , with and as was the code in the Austrian and even in t another for an injury- service, seemed to him quite incomprehensible, he that Was the acceptance of an apology He thought, where in- they could not blame the officer who acted however, that apology was sufficient. tend shoe that an ample, full, lations-(Hear, hear)-and it appeared 11,1 er such regu given, its were not premeditatedly . sufficient. A man's thought the officer was justified in tharshal Radeteley su and gentlemanlike apology was e course frank, ands. He did not Bat even so, that did not diminish the ' he pursue must be always safe in his own h honour ma .. refusing that which was man admitted to have been innocentli3jury inflicted on a /51r. Mather was wrong in Therefore, if say that but such an apology was offered by the the officer were justified in what he had refore, ever! tendered to him, . andat the hands of an officer who was due to the injury sustained h done, reparation enni mander-in - chief days after the declaration of both P • — speak the English language Five Prince knew b ow to he came into the office. He Lichtenstein, there was nothing Scheyer h and Prince , zen erg the accession of the Government alleged, when he said ho groundofnational Honour , to be demanded on the bad been w as not sent for, as --e r due to what should be the basis of the negotiation. individual remained to be settled , re to consult on b )at once disclaimed the idea of apology from the officer w of an The notion some g © (Lord Malmes suit. . as rejected, and therefore t . 1 hother description f national insult. He told him the na lona onour o. compens a ti sought for. ma ki n g its and that it was no,business of his, except It therefore became a quest' on was to be ensa in his hands. . for the honour of t• Into that question 1311 of the amount of c°wP Id was ees e ry Englishman was concerned B ° ll ' ve • (Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that if be have thought that the Nobl would not outer ; but dof instead his country.- other , course English subjects abroad would calling on Mr. Mather t e Lord Malmesbury).(lf, would have adopted any 0 fix a sum himself, would by an additional responsibility. He allowed the Queen's Advocated then he to be protected We t think he departed . . . from analogous cases, or that he have been prepared to do so ; a n e eee , s t. Instead did no Th d ofthis, to stand by the 'U M '''` e f th king all responsibility from seay, as a o he had b een obliged e ' ductions • rom e ee wrong 'a takin g . 11 to make re due was t dde t• •h d I d Wr— et lsewhere. An eminen an is Logn e per- rigna emend ; a n d i t liable Mr. been said e Was very pro d another no less . . distinguished than the Noble right in saying that the if, a ppealed to, would s°°' and a him three times in his speech with being have granted as Tuscan court* o f the indepen- Lord, char great omission in starting first in the case. He dence of Tuscan much. As to the question ~ ot comp with our guilty (Lordenf Malmesbury) had not consulted the Queen's demands might be there was no claa ould not extort from 9 be enforced, but we c said h but the fact was there was no Queen s Advocate. Tuscany an avowal ,so long as the Aus- Advocate; of her independe nne that army being only late Government resigned . on the 20th, on the 27th the trian army The t came into office; but their predecessors remembered responsible Was occupying her to its - Gee v ernment g territory, ___tar offences in for mill . 3' , , present came Id friends even on their deathbed, and appointed a the same way own . army ap bad been. T r houga their o yas the British sow still there for Inman 'Advocate on the day of their own funeral, and the virtually independent, that arms was Queens before that of Sir Herbert Jenner Fust. purpos es day ; and he therefore thought it redress, would have remind Lord CAMPBELL begged to the Noble Lord that might Ilene been a „ n lied to for . . the a 's Advocaterested i'' liable tolook to Austria , appointment of a Queen . with the Arch- beea m ore j ust and r e as onab le „, and not with the late t, bishop of Canterbury, - have felt an inallodrebeyast-hl y et is t tmeanssettled.—(gear.) _ ... th ( e li w e 012:1 givingl d h a ! minatettreerstwvethhee e r n ed i r n e u ss ch ; Without blaming the Noble Earl for the l whoa pur -1 sued, he would ask how he stood co . urse he had now —for it appeared th a t I Mr. Scarlett was di savowe d, an d the whole re-opened—not as to the amoun t . f or that wati q e u e e t s t t i zon was as to the responsibility c f th e T uscan Gover nmened—"t t had increased the difficulty orthe of the f This question; N Lord must now either insist on an additional r a reparati obole on Tuscany acknowledgi ng it s responsibility by admittingnoble that sum to be due. H e d ou bt e d whether the arguments lathe dispatches were suffi c i en tly cogent to attain that result Allusion had been made to the occupation of the Italian States by foreign armies. No one regretted this more than himself, nor more desired to see the time when these forces might be withdrawn with safety. The Noble Lord (Beaumont) had said that Austria encouraged misgovemmeat and tyranny in the other Italian States that her own States might appear well governed by corn ' parison. This he considered most jesuitical reasoning, and too absurd to obtain credence fora moment. He did not know the exact terms on which the French forces occupied Rome, but he presumed they were independent of the Roman tribunals. Lord BEAUMONT—The city is in a state of siege. The Earl of ABERDEEN said in that case the troops would be independent of the tribunals, and therefore their situation was not analogous to that of the Austrian troops. In conclusion, he would repeat that he did not condemn the course of the Noble Earl, but hoped that great caution would be used in the instructions that were to be given to sir Henry Bulwer.—(Hear.) Earl GRANVILLE referred to various cases of armies occupying foreign countries, and expressed a hope that the Government would demand explanations from Austria rind France as to the conditions of their occupat on of the Italian States. He thought it possible that such terms might be arranged by the mediation of this country as would lead to I the withdrawal of those troops.—(Hear, hear.) With re ference to the present case, he wished to vindicate the late Government from the charge of being too hasty and impa tient in demanding reparation. This was the first time such a charge ha dbeea made. In Tuscany a great number of insults to British subjects had recently occurred without re dress being obtained; and knowing that military o ffi cers h a d generally been the aggressors in these cases, he thought this a case in which he was bound to demand prompt reparation. It had been said that that demand ought to have been made on the Austrian Government. Ile could not agree in this.— ("fear, hear.) He thought it would have been a gratuitous i nsult to the Government of an independent state to pass it over in that w a y, The Noble Earl (Aberdeen) referred to a treaty now is which did not exist in 1849; but it was only $; ace existence, article of the : the occurrence of this case that the secret referred to which was said to exempt the leers had been _ , . tribunals. In otifYmg army fro m the Jules ic ion of the he attack was on a private in e n vidu er similar cases, where t amenable to the a t l, it had been held that the army was thought, fully justifieldbunals of the country. This, .he redress from the Tuscan the late Government in demanding referred in detail to some Govern me nt The Noble Earl then stated the view with which of his own dispatches, and had pointed out th a t if dim"; they had been written. He by the Tuscan Government eitlties were thrown in the way to Austria; and he was happ y to m h ight be necessary to look and Learned Lord Chief Justic e -6 borne out by the Noble Government to apply to either , that it was open to the was said he had neglected to coneeuietrt.— h (ale a r , hear.) It cate, but he had no facts to lay befiti—e Queen's Advo instructions to Mr. Scarlett were that, li . that officer. His described, he was to demand reparation if fthe facts were as vernment, and had anticipated the three coursesthe Tuscan Go- Government might take upon that dema which the experience which he had had in the Forei After the thought he had learnt what were the proper f ice neoffice, he which to submit cases to the Queen's Advocate. ases on consulted a gentleman of long experience in the Fo: " Ila gn d office, who had since been raised to a judicial office, andetzlia; gentleman said the late Government had done quite right the instructions they sent out to Mr. Scarlett, in demanding reparation from Tuscany in the first instance, and in not re ferring to the Queen's Advocate till the facts were ascera tained.—(llear, hear.) He would add that he tho ug h t the Austrian Government had been actuated by a desire that the matter should be arranged in a conciliatory manner; in this he included also the conduct of Prince Schwarzenberg, wh o had displayed great abilities in the office he had held. The Earl of DERBY congratulated the House on the calm and temperate tone in which the question had been discussed, tending, as he said, to disencumber it of the rub bish which had been heaped on it in the public prints and elsewhere. - He rejoiced that all deviations from the main question had been avoided, and all reference to particular and exceptional expressions in dispatches. There seemed to be a general concurrence of opinion that in the first in stance the late Government was justified in appealing to the Tuscan Government. The principle was, that so long as Tuscany enjoyed the privileges of an independent state and received diplomatic functionaries in that capacity, she must be held responsible for any injuries to ,British subject in her territory.—(Hear, hear.) Every one concurred in exempting young Mather from blame; admit ting, that he had involuntarily rai se d hi s arm, there was ' nothing to justify the outrage ous i nsu l t committed upon him. llt was necessary to draw a distinction between the national point of view, and that regarding the individual. If an Austrian officer had committed an offence or insult against a British subject as a national of f ence; if be had joined, for instance, in pulling down the consular flag, or offering any insult which might be considered a national insult, he was not prepared to say that we ought not to hold the nation em ploying that officer responsible for a national insult.—( Hear, hear.) But in this case, from first to last, there was no question of national insult or indignity.—(Hear.) It was perfectly clear the officer did not know that the offending party was an Englishman, that he had no previous malice or grudge against him. It was perfectly clear, from the very first, that all the Austrian authorities, differing from us as to the responsibility of the officer, joined he disclaiming any thing like national feeling, and in expressing regret at the unfortunate occurrence which had taken place. Prince Lichtenstein, in his dispatch, regretted the sad occurrence which had given rise to the negotiation, and hoped the Eng lish Government would net have occasion to write to him again on such a subject. It was impossible for an officer placed in his position to offer a more handsome expression of regret; and when, at a subsequent period, Prince Schwarz enberg himself, on the part of the Austrian Government. expressed their regret - at the occurrence, all international feeling, as between England and Austria, might be consi dered to be at an end; and he joined in the observation that any apology from the Austrian officer was unimportarn, after receiving that signal and marked expression of regret from his superior. Not only was there an expression of re gret, but there was a distinct declaration on the part of the, commanding officer that if Mr. blather would make the de eta anon that he intended no insult, Ihe officer would, in any terms he might desire, express his regret at the action which had led to this unfortunate result It was said that they ought to have demanded that the Austrian . officer should be subjected to a trial for the offence which he had committed. That trial had taken place, and the Austrian officer had been found not guilty. God forbid that he (Lord Derby) should defend the extremes to which the Austrian military law went; bat, by the rules of the service, an Austrian officer was liable to degradation, and to be deprived of the power of ever serving again if h e did not cut down any one whom he supposed to have insulted him while on duty. Consequently, if they had gone to Austria, how could they have demanded the punishment of an officer for an offence of which he had already been acquitted ? (Hear, hear.) So far he (Lord Derby) distinguished be tween an offence committed against the nation and a per sonal injury to an English subject in a foreign country wh o was violating no law. He thought the Noble Lord had - committed an error in appealing to Tuscany in the first instance. When a personal injury had been committed against an English subject abroad, his first duty was to appeal to the tribunals of the country; and if those tribu nals were unwilling or unable to grant him redress, he had then a legitimate right to appeal to his own Govern. ment to make it a question between the two Governments. He thought that this principle had been lost eight of. I t was unfortunate that in the first instance M r . Scarlett had accepted the trust which Mr. Mather had placed i hands; and had thus prematurely made w h at was a p e n his matter a question of interaational dispute. lie personal that the Noble Earl was therefore in error iu • thought making a de mand upon Tuscany, before reparation had been the Tuscan eourts.--7(Rear,, hear-) But me sought for in paration was to be given, what ought to be *PPeeing that re quality ? Should it be an apology ? An its character and by Austria, and was rejected in a most apology was offered by Mr. Mather, who demanded an in co ntumelious manner exemplary punishment of the offencrirY, and the full and which the Noble Earl thought it er• The only case in for the Government was in the cageas a case for an apology ness of the tribunals. The Noble of the has or unfair- Scarlett to demand an inquiry, e Earl had instructed Mr. that inquiry had been a full and Mr. Scarlett reported that ducted with ne desire to s and fair One, and had been con demand founded upon that ' -ny one. Then came the offender. But the Tusea in t 'LL - Y, for the punishment of the treaty with Austria vilf n °vernment said they had_ a the Austrian officers ware rendered that impossible, for of the courts. He (Lora at_ withdrawn from the cognizance most unwise if the h a Derby) thought it would have . . been y had accepted the total irresponsibility of the Austrian trop upon the Tuscan Government at all. 11%, rind had not called utmost impor tance to affirm and tat -was a matter of principlethoef Tuscan respou sibility for injuries initintain the Tbe article in the treaty was one which cted in 'Tuscany by - no means bound to recognise, for it this country waspatent , bat a secret one, un known to the other Was not a t pe.—(Hear, hear.) He , thought he might la powers of ur, that in the parrallel case lin 1849 the late venture to say, had acted in precisely a similar Manner, under Governmento of the Queen's Advocate, wh en the advice they had felt it insist upon the sole responsibility their duty of Tuscan toflicted in that country.—(Hear, hear.) Buty for injuries vas unable to punish the offender, if Tuscany ' the parties who were the sufferers. it could to afford reparation nothing to say against Mr. Mather's He (Lord Derb) had mpensation. Mr. Mather had acceptance of a y pecuniary co . demanded what was impos sible; for he had required Ties treaty it had pledged itself not to do ; e arly to !do what by compensation was the only thing left. It and a pecuniary morejudicious if the Noble Earl bait Might have been ea t could have been done, upon some fixed at once, if that h e might have demanded; but the fixed sum wh ae himself admitted that nothing could Lord Chief Jus ta ti o i than the verdict of a jury in such a be more uncer , the Noble Earl having cut down case; and, . claims, had fixed upon a sum which he bag" the exor demand as an acknowledgment of the principle intended tehiy_ not as a matterfavour, but as a right of resPa, n , s c l ia b e might insist by the law of nations. In the upon w" ; , e of his proceedings he (the Earl of Derby) whole course he was as fully andentirely responsible as Awe d that hisav . . Noble Friend, for not one of the steps which he had Seane, he as adopted without his full knowledge and consent; r w and e (Lord Derby) was therefore just as open to censur e , : 7 we re deserved, as the Noble Lord himself.—(Hear.) any w as , his Noble Friend had insisted throughout Th e fact u pon the point which was of the greatest importance, namely, the liability of the Tuscan Government, and had resolved to have a tangible acknowledgment of that prin ciple in the shape of a pecuniary compensation. Upon the maintenance of that principle, he (Lord Derby) was ready to stake the reputation and existence of her Majesty's Go vernment.—(Cheers.) He wished that he could stop here, and that he was net compelled by a sense of duty to enter, which he did with very great regret, upon the observations of the Lord Chief Justice. He (Lord Derby) was sure that Mr. Scarlett had no cause to complain of the way in which his Noble Friend had spoken of the previous services of that gentleman ; and if the Noble Earl had characterised Mr. Scarlett's conduct as an error of judgment, it had not been done in any offensive manner. The Noble Lord had brought three charges against Mr. Scarlett—first, that he bad accepted a less sum than he was authorised; secondly, .that he had waived the responsibity of the Tuscan Government ; and thirdly, the manner in which he had acted with respect to the Messrs. Stratford. With respect to the last case, that Noble and Learned Lord knew that there was great difficulty With regard to the right. of this country to interfere. The Noble Lord must likewise know that, although they had been tried for a very serious offence by a court which might not have had proper juris diction, yet the sentence had been reduced to what would have been inflicted by the civil tribunal- The Grand Duke had, moreover, promised that not o nly these gentlemen's UV" should bo spared, but that at the OpiCati9ll of a very