The Sun. — London, England, 1835-08-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, AUGUST 14. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock. IPSWICH ELECTION. Mr. Moore Keith was brought to the Bar by the direction of 1119 House, and the SPEAKER addressed him as follows : Thomas Moore Keith, you have been convicted before a Committee of this House, of aiding and abetting to procure the continuance of the absence of a witness of the name of Pil grim, in order to prevent his giving evidence before a Com mittee cf this House, and of having used a charge of embez zlement against him as a means of keeping him in concealment. In the petition which you have presented to this I louse, you have stated that it i 3 necessary for you to appear as a witness against Pil grim in the charge you have brought against him ; and you also state that you have already suffered a severe punishment. That a person in your situation in life should have felt y our punish ment severe might naturally be expected, but you ought to recollect that your offence was marked by this peculiar aggra vation, that you used a charge of embczLlement against Pil grim, as a means of inducing him to remain in conceal ment, in order to avoid giving 'evidence before a Committee of this House. Nothing, therefore, could be more fit and proper, nothing more calculated to make an impression on your fellow-citizens, than :o see you brought in custody to give evidence upon that very charge which you so unjusti ably polisted in using as a means to induce Pilgrim to act in disobencc to the orders of this House. Your punish ment may havz" been severe, but it was deserved. You have now express,'d your contrition, and this House is will ing to consider this ."-ontrition sincere ; and therefore I now inform you that you are discharged, upon payment of your fees." Mr. M. Keith then, after bo:cipg to the Speaker, with drew. CHOLMONDELEY ESTATE BILL. On the motion of Mr. TOOKE this Bill was real a th!rd time, and passed.l BELFAST ROAD BILL. On the motion of Mr. S. CRAWFORD, this Bill was read a third time. SALE OF BEER BILL. Mr. WILKS presented a petition from the retail brewers cf beer in Boston against the sale of Beer Amendment Bill. Mr. POTTER presented a similar petition from the Com mittee of Licensed Victuallers and retailers of beer in the city of London and the county of Middlesex. Major BEAUCLERK said it was his intention to move this evening that the Bill should be rejected. Mr. WAK LE Y trusted the Bill would not be carried. CORPORATION BILL. M r . WI LK S presented a petition from the Aldermen and Common Councilmen of Lincoln in favour of the Corpora tion Bill. Mr. E. L. BULWER, in supporting the petition, ex pressed a hope .‘hat if the Bill was rejected or mutilated in another place, the 'House would not separate without either seeing the Bill pass in its original shape, or asserting the unanimity of the House in c'sming the Bill.. Colonel SIBTHORP dentLs(' that the petition spoke the sentiments of the great portion 0 : the inhabitants of Lincoln. Mr. S INC LAIR was surprised thii. 4 .',.any attempt should be made to interfere with the undoubted right of the other House to take the details of that measure into its c esideration. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS. ' The ATTORNEY-GENERAL presented a pee:tipn, signed in two hours by 2,780 inhabitants of Dudley, in Woe cestershire, in favour of this measure. SUDBURY ELECTION. _ . - _ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then presented a petition from certain electors of Sudbury, complaining of the conduct of the Mayor on the occasion of the last election but one, when Mr. Bagshaw and General Barnes were the can didates. The numbers were two hundred and sixty-three each, and it was the understanding on all hands that a double return should be made ; but, contrary to this understanding, the Mayor. who had throughout acted as a partisan. had re turned General Barnes, who actually retained his seat until a petition had been presented against the return. The Right Hon. Gentleman then presented a petition from Edinburgh, praying that measures would be taken to prevent the losses arising from ships being sent to sea in an unsound state. Mr. BAG SHAW complained of the conduct of the Mavor on the occasion alluded to in the petition from Sudbury. He had acted as a partizan of his (Mr. Bagshaw's) Hon. oppo nent, and even voted for him at the election, and his Hon. opponent had retained his seat in consequence of the conduct of the Mayor, for not less than 14 days. He hcped the Learned Gentleman - would bring forward the case for a Com mittee early next Session. Mr. O'CONNELL did not think it was yet too late, but, at all events, it was a question very fit for inquiry. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it must be inquired , into, because if not then, the Crown, byan adjournment or pro rogation, put an end to all such cases. Mr. SINCLAIR complained that the Mayor whose con duct was brought under the notice of the House had not had notice of the case so as to be prepared, by having some Mem ber instructed to defend him. Mr. BAG S HAW said if the Hon. Member would now move for the Committee, he would second it with pleasure. The Hon. Gentleman then presented a petition complaining of the conduct of the present Mayor, who had interfered in the last election by raising booths in illegal places. He proposed that it be referred to the same Committee. Mr. GR ATT AN presented a petition from an officer on half-pay, complaining of not being fully employed, in conse quence of some harsh treatment he had received from a court martial in the lonian Islands. Major BEAUCLERK and Mr. BUCKINGHAM sup ported the petition, and considered the case as a very harsh one. TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE. , Mr. WILLIAMS presented three petitions , sig n ed b y up wards of 2,000 persons residing in Coventry and its vicinity, praying for the Repeal of Taxes on Knowledge. Mr. HAWKINS presented a petition from Newport to the same effect. The country would derive the most benefit from the repeal of these duties. At present the whole press was chained to Somerset-house, and clogged by that establishment, and the great mass of the people were prevented from knowing what their representatives were doing. Unless these duties were removed, the Ministry would be in an unsafe position. Petitions to the same effect were also presented by Dr. BOWIUNG and Mr. E W ART. Mr. WAKLEY exhibited a New York newspaper of ex tensive size, published at three halfpence. Messrs. ROEBUCK and BE AUCLERK supported the petitions. LAW OF EVIDENCE. Mr. WAK LEY presented a petition, agreed to at a public meeting at the Freemason's Tavern, praying for the introduc tion of a clause to compel Magistrates to take evidence of all cases heard before them. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the principle of the Bill. Mr. O'CONNELL considered the Law in its present state as giving a frightful advantage to the rich over the poor. Mr. LOWTHER presented a petition from Ely in favour of the Repeal of the Duty on Newspapers. Mr. PHILLIPS presented a petition front Dublin com plaining of agricultural distress. Mr. CII ALM ERS presented a petition from the inhabitants of Dumfries, praying that they might be relieved from the expense of sending criminals out of the country ; also a peti tion from the shipowners of Dundee against the Redcar Har bour Bill. a LIVERPOOL PETITION. Mr. EWA RTpre.;i:nted a petition from Liverpool, praying that the House of : Commons would resist any attempt that might be made to mutilate the Municipal Corporation Bill, which petition had been signed by 12,000 persons in two hours. The Hon. Member stated, that notwithstanding an adverse petition had been got up, backed by all the authority and influence of the town, and which had been laid in the same public room, yet the petition which he had had the honour of presenting, was signed by a majority of three to one.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. SINCLAIR deprecated the presentation of petitions eon:mining allusions to the proceedings in the House of Lords. THORN LEY thought it a very remarkable circum stance that this great meeting had not thought fit to address the Howe of Lords. He much regretted-that the other House did not go along with the people. If they saw more of the .country, if they visited the manufacturing and commercial' establishments, they would learn that those per• sons who maioged those establishments were fit to be entrust ed with municipal pffiees. He believed that the present Admi histration possessed ;he confidence of the country • and if the Municipal Bill were thrown out, the present Administration would establish a higher ticgree of popularity, than any Ad ministration bad ever done before.. Mr. A. TREVOR protested egainst the 'charge brought forward against the House of Loids-- • that they were unac quainted with the feelings of the people, or indifferent to them. After a few words from Mr. C. PELHAII, the petition %rat: laid on the table. ACTIONS OF EJECTMENT. Mr. F,WART presented a petition from some individuals of Livirpenl, praying the House to facilitate process in actions of ejeetwent• Lord Sil - ND ON made a few observations in support of the prayer of the a.tter petition. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS. Alderman WO OD presented a petition signed by se veral thousand inLqlaitants of the City of London, and emanating from one of the most numerous meet ings he had ever seen a:sembled within the walls of the Guildhall, in favour of the Municipal Corporation Bill, and praying that House to pass a similar measure for Ireland. The petitioners hoped that if the Bill now before the other House was mutilated, or its principle destroyed in any way, that that House would not adopt it, but would take such im mediate measures as might seem to it necessary. The Hon. Member also presented a similar petition from Gloucester, which he had only received a few minutes before he entered the House. GREAT YARMOUTH ELECTION. • Sir J. Y. BULL E R, as Chairman of the Committee appoint_ eclto try the merits of the petition complaining of the last election for this borough brought up the Report of the Committee.— ( Loud lea of " Read, read," followed b% cries of," No, no," and . erin."),4;, On thequestur) . \that it be printed, ELP FUN RTO NE, as an individual Member of that Committee, woulcliike that opportunity of stating that ever y allegation\in the'pet4ion had been proved.—( Loud cries of " Bear, hear.") Mr. TOCRED gave notice that on Thursday, the 20th instant. 'he 5-117VI N t l hove that his Majesty's Attorney-General _lee &meted rosecute every person implicated in these pro eeedipgs.,—( Cheers.) Mr; O.I.PHINSTONE gave notice that early nest Scs- ion he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to disfratelise the Borough of Great Yarmouth.—( Cheers.) Dr. 110 WRING understood that the Committee had re used to allow the expenses of the petitioners : be would give notice that the expenses of those individuals be discharged.— (Hear, hear.) Sir JOHN Y. BULLER said the Committee had no pre cedent to go by, and they had therefore suggested that the proper course for the parties would be to petition that House. Lord JOHN RUSSELL intimated that he intended, during the course of the night, to move that the House should sit to-morrow at 12 o'clock. for the purpose of getting on with such Bills as were before them. YORK ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. G. F. YOUNG, alluding to some observations which were not heard in the Gallery, said he was obliged to express the surprise he felt to find a new member upon the York Committee, after they had been sitting for nine days taking evidence. He said so impartially, fur there was no man for whom he had nicro respect than the member whom had been named. he Committee had acted as far as possible in the manner of Election Committees, and be spoke for every Member—they were most anxious to sit and hear all the evidence. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said his only intention was to assimilate the Committee to that of an Election Committee; he had no other object. Mr. M. ATTWOOD made a charge against the Gov, rn ment upon the appointment of the Committee, but from his low tone of voice, and the noise in the House, not a word of it was heard. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in reply to Mr. M. Attwood, said the Hon. Member had argued that these Committees should be chosen by ballot, which was an original proposition made by him (Lord J. Russell), and which he abandoned in consequence of a strong representation, not from any of his friends or partisans, but the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth. He had been requested to name a limited number of Members, instead of having the ballot, because it might happen that sometimes the Committee might consist of Members all on one side.— ( Hear, hear.) Now, with regard to these Committees, those on his side of the House complained that he had left them in a minority. The present Committee consisted of Mr. M. Attwood, Mr. W. Egerton, Major Fancourt, Mr. Welby, Mr. G. F. Young, Captain Alsager, Mr. Pusey, Mr. Brotherton and Mr. Grote.—( Hear.) Out of these nine he could recognize only four who generally voted on the Minis terial side ; and as to those on the other side, he thought them to be gentlemen who upon a question of this kind would be likely to give their unbiassed opinion, uninfluenced by party feeling. There were five who voted in the minority of the House —( Cries of No, yes. hear, and laughter.) There was Mr. M. Attwood ; of him ;here could be no doubt; to adopt the com mon language of the day, he was a Tory, and more than a Tory. Then there were Mr. W. Egerton and Mr. G. F. Young— Mr. G. F. YOUNG (rising)—" No, I beg pardon."— (Laughter and cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL resumed—the fourth was Mr. Alsager, and the fifth, Mr. Pusey. These five gentlemen were most-. certainly found on the opposite,„„aile. If the House thought that these Committees ought to be chosen by ballot, he should not stand in opposition to the plan. Mr. G. F. YOUNG denied that he had voted so often against the Noble Lord as intimated, and assured his Lord ship that such an opinion would not make him abstain from doing that which he had always done, voting according to his conscience. . VV Colonel PERCEVAL felt it his duty to state, that not one Member on his side of the House had been appointed on the Committee on Orange Lodges.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME begged to submit a resolution of that Lodge —( Great hiNhter)—he begged pardon, that Committee. Mr. PEASE rave notice that he should move for all the evidence on the York Slection Committee. ORANGE. LODGES. Mr. HUME moved that a oxessage be sent to his Grace the Duke of Gordon, and to the Right Honourable Lord Kenyon, requesting their attendance before the Select Committee of the House, which had been appointed to inquire into the Orange Lodges of Ireland. He begged to state in answer to an observation that had been thrown out, that a communi cation had been made to the Hon. Members for Cardiff and Buckingham, requesting them to attend, and stating that they might send in any name they chose, but which communication had not been attended to. Colonel PERCEVAL would give the Hon. Member fer Middlesex credit for wishing that which was just and proper, but all he could say was that he was very much interested in the inquiry that was going on. Mr. HUME—Then I move that the Hon. and Gallant Member be appointed a member of the Lodge—( Hear, hear, and great laughter)—a member of the Committee, I mean. Colonel PERCEVAL—" No, no." Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE would ask the Hon. Member for Middlesex whether he thought it right that the Committee should pursue its enquiry further than the present session.—( Cries of " Oh, oh I") Mr. WARBURTON said the object of this and other Com mittees was to enquire and not to adjudicate. The evidence that had been collected by the Committee was laid before the House, and the House would adjudicate upon the subject. Colonel PE R.O E VAL said that when men were appointed upon a Committee who were all on one side, they were very likely to be led away by their feelings. Mr. ROEBUCK wanted to know whether the Hon. and Gallant Colonel applied that principle to an Orange Grand Jury in Ireland ?—( Loud cheers.) Colonel PERCEVAL said that the Orange Grand Jury were upon their oaths, and every case brought before them was considered dispassionately, honestly, and impartially.— ( Cries of " Oh, oh.") The SPEAKER then put Mr. Hume's motion from the Chair, which was agreed to. Mr. HUME then moved separately that Captain Gor don, Sir J. Y. Buller, and Colonel Fancourt be added to the Committee, but the Hon. Members all declined the honour. In answer to a question from Sir R. BATE SON, Lord MORPETH vindicated the Irish Government from the charge brought against certain prisoners tried at the last assizes of Londonderry. The Noble Lord said that he had received a petition in favour of the ring-leader of the prisoners, signed by the twelve jury, and surely if this prisoner deserved favour, the argument was still stronger in favour of the other prisoners. After a few words from Mr. JONES, Sir R. FERGUSON, and Mr. SHAW, the conversation dropped. SLAVE COMPENSATION BILL. The Order of the Day for the third reading of this Bill was read ; and after an observation from Mr. HUME, the Bill was read a third time, and passed. THAMES TUNNEL. Mr. WALTER begged to ask the Noble Lord whether an opportunity would be afforded him of bringing the motion of which he had given notice on this subject before the House, if he now gave way to the Government? Lord JOHN RUSSELL feared that no opportunity would be afforded during the present session. WAYS AND MEANS. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of the whole House on Ways and Means, was read. THE BUDGET:- The SPEAKER having left the Chair, The CHANCELLORofthe EXCHEQUER roseandsaid, Sir, in my endeavours to dis:•harge my duty—the duty that has fallen upon me of stating to this House the state of the finances of the country at this moment, I shall endeavour to do it as clearly and as briefly as I possibly can ; but Sir, I shall require the utmost extent of indulgence that the House can afford, fur there is nothing so dry as a statement of figures : but as this is the most important of all questions to the country, I hope that in the midst of these dry cal culations, and even although the narration of the facts which I am about to lay before the House may be dry, yet at the same time, as they will show the state of the important financial affairs of this great country, I trust the House will extend that indulgence, not to me, but to the subject. Sir, I trust that that will be the .case, for the difficulties are much increased upon me by considering that I stand, unfortunately I may say, succeeding in the exposition of the state ,of the finances, one whose character, one I may say, whose personal — as 'well • as peculiar man ners gave- him a peeulier =claim upon men of all parties. I cannot hope, comiderint: that the last statement was made by Lord Althorp—nhose sincerity men of all parties were willing to admit—but I trust, though I have to fol low him, who was a man of the character I have given him, and it would be unbecoming in me to say more I have mentioned it merely for the purpose of stating that the course which I will pursue will be the same course which was accustomed to be taken by him while he held the same office which I now fill. Before I approach the subject I should wish further to call the attention of the House to one cause of difficulty 1 have to encounter. It is a difficulty proceeding from a cause of which neither the country nor myself will complain. I mean, Sir, the past reductions in the taxation, for it must be clear that every reduction which is made renders it more difficult to carry out the principle hereafter. But the dif fgollty being increased, that increased the merit of car rying further reductions into execution. I shall not go into details of great • length ; but it is actually neces sary t 43 bring before the Committee an account of the reductions which have been made ; and, in doing this, I shall not confine myself to those made by the Adminifitration to which I have the honor to belong ; but, in justice to other Administrations, I shall notice the enormous reductions which have been carried into effect since the peace.—(Hear, bear.) I find that the gross amount of the reduction made in the taxation since the year 1814—which is a fair way of calculating the removal of pressure upon the people.—l find that it amounts to no less than FORTY MILLIONS, ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY-ONE THOUSAND POUNDS, approaching, actually, with in five or six millions of the amount of the revenue at present. Of that sum, 40,191,090/., no less than 6,954.000/. was a reduction effected by the AdininifitrAtiPP of Lord Grey. In like manner, with respect to the reduction of tiv VotP# of Supplies, taking the matter in the fairest way I can take it from the year 1817, down to the present period, on averages of four years—from 1818 to 1821 the average shows an annual arawn4 of supplies of 18,872,0001. The average of the next four years coming down to 1825, shews an average of 16,721,0631 Front Mr) to 1829 there was an increase, for it amounted to the sum of 18,023,000/. From the year 1830 to the year 1833, the average was reduced to 16,115,0001., and in the year 1831, the annual supply amounted to fourteen million four hundred a„ai 4ev,epty-nine thousand pounds; and in 1835, the supply voted amounts tq 14,136,0001. So that we have in that interval reduced the Applies voted from a sum of 18,872,000/. which was the average of the first four years, to a sum of 14,136,0001., which is the amount THE SUN, LONDON, ,ATITTIDAV, AUGUST 15, 1835. of the supply voted this year. Well, Sir, this is not the only liffieulty which we have had to contend with, because these are the estimates which have been cast upon us by the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and for which they are responsible. But at the same time there have been some votes which were partially thrown upon their estimates, and partially upon mine, which have prevented a still further reduction of the estimates, which, but for this, would have taken place. For instance, the fire which unfortunately destroyed both Houses of Parliament added 69.700/. The• satisfaction liven to one class of the Danish claimants, which certainly could not be included in the direct expenditure of any Go vernment for the time being, I may justly estimate at 113,0001. The fire at the Dublin Docks I estimate at 68,000/. The vote given to the Poles at 10,0001. Another vote, which does not be long to the service of the year, but which I have introduced into the supplementary Estimates upon grounds that were satisfac tory to the House at the time that I stated it—l mean the vote for the Revising Barristers--those professional gen tlemen who have given up their time and . attention to the discharge of a public duty, should no longer be left waiting for the money which they had honestly earned, until the public contingencies should enable me to perform my duty.—( Cries of " Hear, hear")—that sum amounted to 22,5001., which, in point of fact, belongs to the service of a future period rather than this. There is another vote which the Noble Lord ( Althorp) consideed inadequate for the purpose for which it was granted, but which at the same time interferes with the reduction of taxation to the amount of 180,000/. The sum has been granted upon the recommendation of the County rates Committee of last year, to defray one half of the County rates. There is also another sum which I am sure this House does not regret, which has been devoted to the purchase of works of Art, and which amounts to 6,000/. There is a vote for the education in the Slave Colonies, which amounts to 25,000/., and there is one other vote which does not appear in the sums voted, but which will be voted in a Committee of the whole House, to which I do not anticipate any objection—l mean the vote to give relief to the sufferers in Dominica, for the property destroyed in the hurricane. 'Fills will amount to 12,0001. The total of the sums to which I have alluded amount to 436,0001. which will so far interfere with my plan for the further reduction of taxation. I will now proceed to a statement of the income and expenditure of the present year. In the first place, the Members of this House have before them—and I beg they will attend to the circumstance—a ba lance sheet which has been laid on the table of the House, and copies of which have been distributed during the last week. This balance-sheet—and I state its results in general terms— shows the income at 46,087,000/., and the expenditure 45,185,0001., and exhibits a surplus of 902,000/. If there be any inconvenience connected with the delay of the Budget (as it is called), on which some observations may hereafter be made, for this the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir Robert Peel) knows that I am not responsible ; because I could not have made this statement until I had completed the loan, and that any other statement would be, until then, premature—but if there was inconvenience in a postpone ment, it had also its benefits, because I have now the results of another quarter, and the results of future income and ex penditure, which might be made without sufficient data at an early period of the year, but are now corrected by the re sult of that quarter, and it is to this that I now invite the attention of the House. I have stated that in April the balance sheet exhibits a surplus of 902,000/., and the income on the balance sheet for the year ending in July exhibits a sum of 45,539,000/., and an expenditure of 44,334,0001; I omit the small figures and fractions. This, Sir, 'shows a surplus of 1,205,000/. in place of the surplus to which I have alluded. I shall have occasion, so far as the progress of the ordinary revenue and expenditure of the country goes, to take upon myself to say that the statement made cannot but be satisfactory to the House. But the House will have the goodness to recollect that in the one case, as well as in the other, there is a charge connected with the West Indian Colonies, which we now have to pay. I have only stated, with reference to the two balance-sheets, what the income and expenditure was, in order to show what would be the state of the case, on the ordinary principle of comparing the whole amount of the revenue with the or dinary amount of expenditure ; but we shall afterwards see how these surpluses are diminished and reduced by reason of the engagements which the country has to meet. I shall now proceed to compare, in order to enable the House to know the exact position in which the country is placed, the present amount. I shall compare the calculations which my Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) when Chancellor of the Exche quer made by anticipation in July last with the actual results of the year past, and then I shall state what are my anticipations. Now, Sir, I will endeavour to simplify this statement as much as possible, because Hon. Gentlemen who are conversant with the subject will easily fill up the outline, and those who are not conversant with it, if I lead them to results, will feel it more satisfactory than if I covered them with details. The estimate, comparing Lord Althorp's estimate with the balance-sheet for the quarter ending the sth of July, my Noble Friend, anticipating the receipt of income ,of 45,738,0001., the balance of income then is 45,539,000/., so that there was a falling off of income beyond the calculation of my Noble Friend of 239,000/. He calculated the expenditure at 44,801,0001., whereas, in point of fact, it only amounted ' to, and it did not exceed 44,334,0001., so that there was a diminution of the ex penditure of 466,000/. to meet the diminution of the income of 239,000/. My Noble Friend calculated upon a surplus of 977,000/. The surplus of the balance sheet was 125,000/., showing a surplus of 227,000/. more than was cal culated by my Noble Friend. I have excluded from this the provision made for the West India slaves, but that will not vary the proportions in the slightest degree. Now, Sir, I shall proceed to state what is my estimate for the next year. Mr. G OULB URN—Is it for the financial year? Mr. RlCE—Yes—the estimate which I make is for the financial year. Now, Sir, I am about to state what my calculations are for the ensuing year. I will first state the result, and lay before the House the grounds upon which I came to that result. I calcu late the income of the country at 45,550,000/. I calculate the expenditure at 44,715,000/. , which leaves a surplus of 835,000/., subject to charges to which I shall now call the attention of the House. I shall now proceed to give the statement of how I make up the 45,550,0001. more in detail. The Customs in the preceding year amounted to 19,183,000/. I calculate them, for this year, at 20,000,000/ The Excise for the last year amounted to 13,880,000/. I calculate it for the next year at 13,270,0001. These make a total of 33,630,000/. for the last year, and for the present one of 33,270,0001. The Stamps last year produced 6,998.000/. ; for the next year I take them at 6,980,000/. The Taxes produced 43,312,000/. This year, I take them at 36,000,000/. ;—the Post-office for the last year was 1,660,000/. ; this year I expect from it 1,500,0001.—the miscellanies I take at 20,000/. Sir, I now proceed to the expenditure. I take the expenditure of the public debt, funded and not funded, including a portion of the'interest on the loan for the relief of the West Indies, which amounts to 28,540,000/. ; also a part of the Consolidated Fund, 2,400,000/. Therefore the total expenditure will be 30,580,000/. If to this I add the annual grants for the army, navy, and ordnance, amounting to 14,135,000/., it will make the total expenditure 44,715,0001. , and upon that there will be a surplus of 835,0001. Now . , Sir, let no ono of my Hon. Friends behind me, however anxious and solicitous they may be to ask for fur ther relief from taxation, but which cannot be conceded without prejudice to the credit of the country—let them not assume that because I have hitherto stated there was a surplus of 835,000/., therefore it would be competent for me, or my duty, to propose a remission of taxation to that extent. Would to God that I could, Sir I I can assure Hon. Gentlemen that no portion of the duty of a Chancellor of the Exchequer can be more agreeable than to propose reduction of taxation. But, Sir, if we are bound to resist the demands that are made upon us for such reduction we do so most reluctantly, and are compelled to refuse only from a sense of duty, and we arc compelled at times to stand against importunate calls for reductions which are likely to endanger the credit of the country.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") But I regret to say that this surplus of 635,000/. will be found to crumble away before the statements that are now to be made. The House has determined tht.t we are to provide for the interests of the West Indian proprietors, from the period those proprietors suf fered pecuniary loss. It is but- just; it was- intended at the time, and if it were not •so, it would -be merely justice to. the case, that in spite of ulterior considerations or construc tions of the law, we should have come to the conclu sion to which the House came last night.—(Hear, hear.) This interest has not, up to the present time, been cleared ; it has appeared as part of the balances because it has appeared in the balance, by teason of the exercise on the part of the Treasury of that power which was vested in them, of applying certain portions of the surplus of the year in the payment of the interest which augmented the ba lances in the Exchequer, and left us a fund ups; which it is now competent for us to draw. Sir, this interest is to be provided for from the Ist of August, 1834. I will no w, Sir, state the case most strongly as agaimit myself; not that it is a case likely to arise, but I think, acting as I do in discharge of my duty in making the statement, it is my province to state the case, with respect to the liabili ties of the country, in the strongest way in which it can be stated against myself, so as to erioc4rage no false hopes, or hold out no delusive expectations. I shall afterwards explain what the difference is between the case as stated and the case which is likely to occur, and the House will see at once the ne cessity for making the one statement as well as the other, and for explaining . , to theft? and the coentry how th e ma tt er really stands. Sir, the maximum amount of interest to which we might be subject, until the payment of the awards from the Ist of August, 1834, assuming the awards were to become payable in September, would be 730,000/. Then supposing fartivr, in order to raise the liabilities of the country to the utmost, that thti whole of thP instalments alone were to be paid out in the eouraa of the next three months, and that the present interest on the w h o l e amount of stock was to be incurred—that is the highest alternative—it would amount to 280,925/., making a total charge on ac count of the West Indian compensation of 1,010,9251. ; against which I have only the surplus of 835,000/. ; so that to that extent citikw4n4 tiPif - rf OP ligq,Y, tiler' Ir'lliflllEi pat 4 s li r Pill s '94 a deficiency of 176,0.7 h.• /nit !VP q fiP pussibflity that such an amount of charge will arise—it is an alternative which is • not in the slightest degree likely to occur. On the con trary, Sir, not having th e means of making an estimate— being left, in a certain degree, to calculate and conjecture— I should im4gine the amount, in place of being 1,010,925/., will not exceed 8 or'ioo;oCita.; and' that the neat' balaneo—the real surplus that may be looked to—will be from 150,000/. to 200,0001. The interest, of course, is greater in the present year than it will be in any future year; and supposing the remaining 5,000,000/. to be contracted for at the same rate—which I shall continue to think, notwithstanding the statement of my Hon. Friend, the Member for Aberdeen, which is not only the favourable alternative, but the most favourable alternative that can be looked to—sup- posing the 5,000,0001., remaining uncontracted for, to be con tracted for at the same rate, the charge in future years, in place of being 1,010,000/. would only be 742,000/. I hope that I have laid this statement fairly before the House. I have tried to explain, as well as I can ; but if any gen man, in any future stage, shall wish for any further explanations, I shall endeavour to give them - . I stated the amount of supply to be 14,145,0001., and may state the items as follows :—Army 6,189,000/. ; Navy, 4,245,000/. ; Ordnance, 1,296,000/. ; Miscellaneous Estimates, 2,405,000 L, making a total, as I be fore stated, of 14,145,0001. I shall now, before going through the accounts of the revenue—and if Gentlemen will be pleased to attend—l beg before they would as sume, or take for granted, that the amount of my calculation of the revenue is justly made, and I will now state the grounds of the calculation, and I intreat the attention of the House to it; because, in the statements I am about to make, there are two matters which are dis tinctly proved, both of them very important. These cal culations which I have made exhibit symptoms, and not only symptoms, but proofs of the general well-being of the coun try, and of the soundness of the country in all its most im portant revenues, which cannot but be gratifying to all.— ( Loud cheers.) I beg first to draw attention to the depart ment of the Customs. I beg Gentlemen will attend to these accounts, and recollect that I am dealing with quantities, not in amounts of money. In order to prove the estimates of twenty millions for the Customs, I must refer to a few of the more important articles that pay the custom duty, and which justify the conclusion to which I have come, and first with res pect to cotton wool. In 1833, the consumption of Cotton wool, as appears from the Customs return, was 284,400,0001b5. In 1834 it had increased to 297,007,000165., in 1835 it hAI risen to 320,210,0001b5. Now, Sir, I believe that to those who know the present state of the manufacturing districts of this coun try, it will not be thought that I am over sanguine if I have concluded that the amount of the income from Cotton next year will be as great as the last. In fact, the present state of the manufacturing districts, the demand increasing as it is, leads me to hope that it will be greater. But I have taken the average of the last three years, and put it down at 310,000,0001 b. I will proceed to another circumstance, though small in consumption, yet most important to be attended to in a financial point of view—that is the article of oil. The duty on oil was reduced, as Hon. Members know, and I will, with the permission of the House, state what was the effect of that. In 1833 the consumption was, in gallons, 1,131,000; in 1834 it was 1,178,000; and in 1835 it had in creased to 2,077,000 gallons. That therefore, Sir, shows that the reduction in the duty has been particularly felt. —( Hear.) Such being the case, I think the House will not think me over sanguine, if I apprehend oil will produce as much next year as it did in the last ; but in order to do away with any delusion, I have not calculated it at 2,077,000 gallons, but I have taken the average of the year when it was 1,178,000. Then with respect to coffee, that likewise has augmented, but I have 1. taken that at the average of the last three years. In 1832, the consumption of coffee was 22,398,0001b5. ; in 1833, it was 22,798,0001b5. ; and in 1835 it was 23,800,0001b5. I have,' estimated this at 22,348,0001b5. There is a reduction con templated in the duty on East India coffee, and if that takes place the calculation is 'of course at an end. I now come to the article of sugar, and it appears that the quan tity entered for home consumption in the year 1833 , was 3,687,600 hundred weight ; in 1834, 3,743,000 ; in 1835, 3,746,000 cwt.; and, in place of calculating upon a progressiiie increase, and taking it merely at 3,726,000 cwt., being an axe ' rage of those three years, I come now to one of the most important articles in the whole of our subjects of revenue—one that has been made the subject of le g islation during the present ses sion—l allude to the article of tea. The amount miported in the year 1833 was 30,720,000 lbs. • in 1834, 32,480,000 lbs. ; in 1835, 35,580,000 lbs. ; and I only calculate for the Oirpose of not deluding the House or the public, although I verily be lieve that a great increase in the consumption of this article must take place in the present year ; but wishing, as I said, rather to understate the amount, as I should be very much rejoiced if I was taxed with having understated it, I shall take the account at 36 millions of lbs., being only 500,000 more than the amount consumed last year. The House will observe that all the cases I am dealing with are from the sth of April to the sth of May in each year. I must take the liberty of stating to the House that I do really think I might be entitled to bring into this balance sheet a very considerable increase of revenue on the article of tea beyond that I have stated, and I wish to state the grounds on which that calculation is made. If there be an alteration in the antics I have grounds for inferring an increase, because the consumption of tea has been gradually increasing in this country for a great number of years, and there is nothing in the condition of the country that forbids me to hope that even without an alteration in the law that gradual increase should continue. The progress has been quite wonderful : In the year 1824, the quantity was 23,000,0001b5. 1825 1826 .. 1827 1828 1829 1830 1831 1832 1833 1834 and in the year ending April 1835, it amounted to 35,580,000 lbs. If nothing occurred to alter this state of things, there could be no doubt that the House might anticipate a great in crease in the consumption of tea. But what has occurred since ? We know perfectly well from the purchases made, and the extent of competition in the trade, which has lowered the upset prices, that the amount of tea to be brought in, must inevitably be much increased, and that the sales next year'must be much larger. But that is hypothetical, and I shall therefore take no credit for it, as it is a calculation that I cannot rely upon. Well, Sir, if Tea augment, if Sugar augment, and if Coffee augment—all are to be taken into consideration. I trust I have shown to the House that I have not overstrained or overcalculated the figures which 1 have laid before you. There is only one other article, Sir, to which I wish to call the attention of the House. It is that of Tobacco, and it S increasing. Mr. HUME was understood to say—Take off more of the tax and it will increase further. Mr. RICE—I know my Hon. Friend says, take off the duty if you want to increase the consumption. That would be all very well if we had a real bona fide surplus to deal with. The proper way to deal with it was to reduce that class of duties upon which you may calculate upon an increasing duty—that is, what my principle is. I know my Hon. Friend , the Member for Middlesex thinks that there is no good done to the country, if upon a reduction of duty, the duty collected remains the same ; but I say that a great deal of good is done to the country. Say that I was able to raise 20 millions upon only 20 millions of lbs., but that I reduced the duty one-half, and yet raised 20 millions ; but upon 40 millions of lbs. will any man say I do not good to the country ?—( Cheers.) Before I pass from the Customs, I wish to call the attention of the House to one other re duction. Mr. HUME—You have not given us the tobacco yet. Mr. RICE—I beg your pardon, Sir. The tobacco in 1833 was 20,362,0001b5. ; in 1834, 20,990,0001b5. : while in 1835 it was 21,483,0001b5. Now, Sir, for the next year I take it at, 21,483,0001b5. The growth of tobacco was supposed to be naPtler of indulgence, as if the trade of the Colonies was not always a subject of importance to the mother country, and the prod uce of British labour in foreign lands was not of value, Sir, I am inclined to think, as long as England is a nation, that the contrary will be esteemed to bo tho ease.—( Hear.) Then we have to notice the reduction - Upon oils and fruits, and it is curious to see the reductions : currants, for instance, in 1832, was 142,0001. in 1833, it was 140,000/. ; then a reduction was proposed which has not taken effect long, but it has con siderably increased the consumption, and WQ ;hall see, I be lieve, the trade in every case inoreasing, in proportion to the reduction, with a concurrent increase of the revenue alsQ,-,-( Hear, bear,) I have already referred to oils; and, in short, the experiments tried last year justified ray Noble Friend in the course he has taken. I cannot pass to the Customs Duty, without observing that the introdnetion of the Corn Duties have been advantageous, and that Hon. Gen tlemrta tyiil app 014 the oomparison is still more cheering with respect to the amount of the duties. In 1827 the amount was 786,000/. ; in 1829 it was 898,0001. ; whereas in 1833 it was but 35,000/., and in 1814 Only 19,000/. This shews the balance of tilo general trade, independent of the c gni trade, to be in a satisfactory state. The next great branch of the country to which I shall refer, is the Excise revenues, and I shall endeavour to lead the Committee to this conclusion at least, that the calculations are fair and candid, I shall endeavour to prove that the internal state of the country is improving, from the state of the Excise and the increase in the consumption of excisable articles, such as malt, paper, soap, spirits, ,54e, The produce last year was 7,742,0001. I take thIA year to be 7,750,000/. The average of malt for the last three years was 4,903,000/. ; I take the same to be the case this year. Irish spirits is ratitcpan Important article, because one on which my Nolllo Friend tried a considerable experiment, f ind I will tell the house the result of it. In 1834 it was 1,514,000/, there is an estimated loss of 100,000/., which will give us 1,415,000/. I will show the House that this is not below the mark. The reduction of duty was from 3s. 4d. to 2s. 4d. per gallon ; it took place from the Ist Sep tember, 1834. I am able to compare the periods from the Ist Sent. to the ath July, 1834, and from the Ist Sept. 1834, to the sth July last, and I will just give the comparison be tween the 3s. 4d. and 2a. 4d. duties. In the first period the number of gallons consumed wr,a 't,343,708; in the second period (the correspgmling one) was 10,280,000 gals. ; and, cal- Fl Ntlng 1-oth 'fbr the month of July alone, the amount will be 11,200,013 gals. ; so that we shall have actually received from the 2s. 4d. duty 40,0001, a year more than by the 3s. 4d. duty. W e proposed a reduction from 3s. 4d. to 2s. 4d. the gallon upon spirits consumed in Ireland. It was stated that the quan tity rose from 8 millions to 10 millions, and that if it should rise to 12 millions, the revenue would gain 40,0001. by th e reduc tion. It had aIWAYS 14 millions, and I calculate that it w ili i;e4c o 12,tim,000 gallons in a short time. I wish now to call the attention of the House to the more general articles of ex cise consumption, and coming to whet is called consumption, I must state that the phrase doe* not strictly apply to some of the elements—to auctions, and bricks for instance.— (A laugh.) I have made a calculation, taking the avprPao coniumptiott of three years, ending the 9th of April, 1834, compared with the actual consumption of the last year. In auctions the increase of duty has been 12 per cent. ; on bricks 11 per cent. ; on glass, taken ge nerally, 14 per cent. ; in hops 21 per cent. ; licenses 4 per ce nt, ; malt, 3 per cent. ; paper, the first class, 7 per cent. ; second class, the same ; mill-boards, the same ; and satin paper, 17 per cent. ; hard soap, 15 per cent. ; spirits 7 per cent., tea 18 pdr cent., vinegar 13 per cent. There is only one single artiela in the whole excise in which there is not a distinct increase. There is only one article which has fallen off, and that is soft soap. lam inclined to attribute this falling off to the substitution of cheaper oil in manufactures but this is a conjecture of my own. In this article there was a reduction of one per cent. There was only this one small ar ticle in which there was any loss, and this, which amounted to one per cent., was, in some measure accounted for.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) This, however, proves a most ma terial fact, and it is utterly impossible to believe, whatever may be said, that this increase of consumption upon all articles of comfort and necessity can go on in a country unless there is a great increase of public property---(we believe, for we did not catch the word from the great cheering that followed it.) With respect to the stamps, or consolidated taxes, I consider that there is a diminution, compared with the last year, and that was in consequence of the reduction of the house taxes. The reductions which have taken place, I have calculated, as free as possible from doubt, that these should be estimated at 3,558,000/. The last quarter has produced 1,500,0001., and this total would bring up the amount of the revenue in that department ; and we have made a reduction in the expense of collection to the amount of 22,000/ In the Stamp Bill which I shall bring in either to-night or to morrow, I mean to give some ad ditional facility to persons entering into compositions. Sir, as to the Stamps, the estimate for the year is 6,926,000/. The receipt for the July quarter is 1,780,000/. There has been some falling off in the Stamp department, but that has been chiefly with respect to legacies, and which has arisen from casual circumstarices ; there were two enormous sums paid into the revenue on account of the legacies of the late Duke of Sutherland ; but the property on which duty was paid amounted to no less than 6,812,949/. for one single quarter, and this, too, relates to town duty, inde pendently of the country duty, and this I allude to, as exhibiting such a marvellous state of increase as I believe no other country can show. With respect to the Post-office, I rely upon my Honourable Friend and his colleague for put ting that establishment on -a good footing. The mail-coach contract with which they have begun, shows to them and the public what may be done hereafter and accomplished, and I am quite sure that a perseverance upon the same sys tem, and carrying it through the whole department, will lead to results which will enable whoever are to make a finan cial statement next year, to state that which will be sa tisfactory to the House.—( Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I wish to call the attention of the House, with a view to 'their calcula tions as to the future means which exist in this country fn meeting ail future payments—l wish to call your attenti.bn to the peculiar state of the public debt at the presentinoment, as compared with it at former times. The House, very wisely, I think, under the peculiar state of the case, felt that it was not expedient to keep up an amount of taxation for the purpose of meeting a large sinking fund. Is it better to leave this money in the hands of the people to promote the general well-being of the country, and increase its credit, tending thereby to lower the interest of money, and enable you to act as you may safely act, upon the interest of your debt—or is it a wiser course to raise more than you want, and then apply it in the reduction of the prin cipal sum? The principle of purchasing terminable annuities was the best way, in my opinion, and that principle had gone on to a considerable extent. For instance, if the House will compare the situation of the debt in 1816 with the state of the debt in 1834, it will show the effect of Adopting that principle. In 1816 I the total amount of the interest of the debt was 32,457,000/, of which 1,894,000/. was terminable annuities ; in 1834 the total interest of the debt amounted to 28,462,000/., 'of which terminable annuities amounted to 4,287,000/. ; so that in point of fact, in 1816 the terminable annuities bore to the permanent debt the proportion of one to . sixteen, whereas in the present year they bore th e propor tion of one to seven. Those who were anxious for the credit of the country, will think this a most gratyfying (Cheers. ) I wish that, during the time of war, when the funds were low, that this country had created, not a permanent debt, but Long Annuities.—(Loud cheers.) If such a course had been adopted, the country would have been in a very different state to which it at present Hear.) However, what had been done, is a most important approach towards the payment of the debt. That was one of the things which induced me, in contracting the present loan, to make a considerable portion of that loan in annuities. But there is another point—it proves that this country still preserues its credit, and that the resources of England are not only unimpaired but are increasing. This is highly im portant—l allude to that portion of the charge called the dead weight. It was the object, that on the re duction of the great establishments, civil and military, of the country, there was a point, a gradual point, up to which the dead weight would be increased by it. There is also what might be termed a pivot---( Hear, and a laugh)—at which the line will descend as rapidly as it had got up. I should be sorry to be misconceived in dealing upon this subject.—( Hear, hear.) I know full well that this House will not misunderstand me.—( Hear, hear.) But I rejoice to say that the dead weight is diminishing— that it has passed its maximum, and is now considerably reduced.--4 Hear, hear, hear.) If I r ej o i ce i n thi s , as b e i ng a benefit in point of fact, I am sure no person will believe that I , am looking to the deaths- of the soldiers and sailors who have served their country, and I am sure that no Honour able Member of this House would express any satisfaction at such a circumstance.—( Hear.) I shall take the half-pay, superannuations, and pensions payable at the War Office together. I shall take the Army and Ordnance, Navy and Civil departments at once. The maximum of the Navy and Ordnance was 4,927,000/ —( An Hon. Member—what year ?) I believe the maximum occurred in the year 1831. I now find that the maximum oecurred in the year 1827, when it amounted to 4,971,000/. In the year 1832 it was 4,811,000/, in the year 1833 it was 4,670,000/, showing a gradual reduction during these three years, and I have no kind of doubt that this charge is in progress of, gradual reduction. I now come to the half-pay, taking the list paid at the Army Pay-office separately. I sec that it is reduced from 1,485,000/ , which it was on an average of four 3 ears ending in 1826, to 1,328,826/, so that I find, in every shape, most important evidence with respect to the future financial proceedings and prosperity of this country.__. Now, Sir, I proceed, and I am happy to be able to inform the House, that it is the last topic I shall allude to, but it is one of the very utmost importance, and it is, that all the statements which I have already made apply—l mean the general calcu lations as to the condition of the country, and the general scale of the great interests of the country—and the first, Sir, to which I will allude is the Commerce. I shall not go into any minute examination of this subject. I will be quite satisfied with the results shown in the paper now in my hands. The full official value of all the exports of 1784, amounted to only 15,000,000/.—l mean the official value, be cause that shows the quantity of exports. Now, Sir, the full value of the exports of England, measuring the increase of our tradep- .„ .: these values do by showing the quantity—th e average fr the four years 1827, 28, 29, and 30, amounted to 65.9'30. ' 000/. Now, Sir, I conie to the four yea rs , it eluding n 1831 and 1834, and in place of' these four years g ief ine. those v i e c ra reas ges e , they produce actually 78,179,000/, si7owin, actual of 12,849,0004 and in point offp7 jt betweef one period and the other, between 1785 and 1 -8 7 A, she wing a full increase of one fifth. Among one the best modes of estimating the condi tions of the P9 (l ' e l .e, of the prod uc ti ve an d t h e wor ki ng c l asses , is, by r Pf- arring to the accounts of th e S av i ngs B ar k s . Ty' results are of a most important character ; they are made up to the close of 1834, which is the year to which I must refer. I find the number of depositors in the higher clas , es much greater, and the lower class of depo sitories decreasing. He would at once be led to the conclu sion that there must be something in the system which led the higher classes to deposit their money in these banks while there was a pressure on the lower classes; but the result of the paper 1 hold in my hand sii)ws din ectly the contrary. SUMMARY OF DEPOSITORS, &C., IN SAVINGS' BANKS IN ENG-, LAND, %VALES, AND IRELAND, ON NOV. 20, 1834. Increase or Decrease Amount of Depositors since Nov. 1833. Investments. 21;1;.93 under 20/. each 16,718 inc £1,849,161 145,827 under 501. each 11,839 inc 4,467,835 00,297 under 101. each '3,842 inc 4,129,245 20,109 under 150/. each 10,422 under 200/ each 3,215 above 2001. each -- - -• 501,163 33,1/12 inc. £15,430,814 in lac e re su a% idnepteitnetri of 1 1 ,5 o 6 f 8 dJositorb during the last year of -33,trit, and The Right Hon. Gentleman continued—Herd was an increase of 956,8611., the great portion of which, it was clear, be longed to the poorer classes, and he was satisfied that it was one of the best indications that could be afforded of an im provement in the condition of those classes. There was an increase of seven per cent. in the number of depositors, and five per cent. in the amount of deposits. He recollected the observations of his Hon. Friend on this subject, and he was sure that the result must be as gratifying to his Hon. Friend as it was tohimself. He repeated that he was convinced that this was one of the most satisfactory proofs that could be ad duced of the well-being of the labouring classes. He thought that it was a complete answer to those who had charged him with making exaggerated statements on this subject. He ad mitted that it was almost as bad to make exaggerated state ments on one side as on the other. If, however, he were dis posed to be guilty of any degree of exaggeration, it would rather be in looking at the cheerful side of a subject, and re garding with pleasure the prospect of improvement, instead of following the example of some Hon. Members, who were evidently repining ever the prospects of the country, and say ing, notwithstanding appearances, all was nought and wretchedness.— (Hear.) This was one proof of the well being of certain classes—but he would refer to another proof in the local improvements that had been made in various parts of the country. He need not say a word as to what extent these might be a source of future improvement— but he wished to advert to the fact, that the country had stepped in, for the purpose of aiding these local improvements, by means of advances through the Exche q uer Bill Loan Com missioners. These gentlemen had made advances for the pur pose of local improvements, such as roads, railroads, docks, hridges, &c. ; improvements in cities and towns, and also in counties to the amount of 4,602,0001. This was the whole of the assistance given by the State, and it had not only been un attended with loss, but a positive profit had accrued on the Exchequer bills advanced. .He found that it was impossible for him to allude to this subject without referring to the im portant services rendered to the country by those gentlemen who had consented to act as Commissioners. The conduct pursued by these gentlemen was a satisfactory proof of the public spirit of the people of this country. Many of these gentlemen were connected with the City of London, and they gave their important services, and took upon themselves the trouble and responsibility of performing the duties of their office, without any hope or expectation of emolument. Nothing, in his opinion, could be more honourable to these gentlemen, or more indicative of a high moral feeling on the part of the people of this country.—( Hear.) He might perhaps reason ably be supposed to have been guilty of some exaggeration in the view he had'taken of the well-being of the country after the King's speech at the commencement of the Session, and the statements made about that time by certain parties in that House. According to what was then stated, one of the most important interests in the country was in anything but a state of prosper ity. He admitted that there existed grounds for what they then heard, for which he said that the country go" nerally was in a state of prosperity. He did not deny that pressure was felt in some classes of the community. With respect to what the agricultural interest demanded he would only observe that if it were not in the power of the Govern ment and the House to yield to them the relief which they required it did not arise from indifference to their claims, or want of sympathy in their sufferings ; but that this Govern ment, as well as the last, were controlled by duties which. prevented them doing so. When they felt it to be their duty to refuse to remove the grea t d u ty i mpose d on a portion cri. agricultural produce, he meant the malt tax, they did so on grounds which all practical statesmen, both in office and out, agreed to be correct. They were convinced that if this im post were removed on the whole, agriculture would n o t be relieved.—( Hear, hear.) lie was, however, inclined to think that a measure then in progress of operation would give.* real and substantial relief to affriculture. He was now Te.-e -pared to speak with more confidence than he did befr il ;, of the advantages which would result from the Act to *;hich he alluded to the agriculturists of England, and, abuy' a all, to that portion cf the agricultural interest which ne,',v suffered the most. He felt no hesitation in saying tint no reduction in taxation that could be made, would 11:0'.. ce anyt hi ng lik e that degree of ben e fit or re li e f to ftgricY . ltture, which they would derive from th e re f orm o f th e poo ' Hear, hear.) 1 10 I=. found from information that he that had obtained two months ago, the impr o v emen t th a t l oad taken place was highly impor tant, and this had been confirmed from inquiries he had since made, and he was e - aabled to verify the statement he was about to read to the P.ouse " 1. Abir. - don Union, commenced January 1, 1835. The expenditure during the three months ending April 1835, was 1,23 Ci., and upwards; and during the three months ending July 1835, was 776/.., showing a reduction of more than 3 5 per cent. " 2. Fatringdon Union, commenced the 7th of February , 1835. Ten weeks afterwards we find that 148 persons had had the offer of the workhouse, of whom only 15 accepted it, and out of them 11 left it. Inquiries were made as to the remain der of the large number of 148, and it was ascertained posi tively that a very large proportion of them, three-fourths, had obtained employment.—( Hear, hear.) • "3. Newhaven Union, commenced 7th of February, 1835- This morning our assistant Commissioner writes as follows It gratifies me to be enabled to inform your Board, that the guardians of the Newhaven Union, by representing to the employers of labourers in agriculture, the blind policy of con tributing unprofitably towards the poor-rates, those sums which would be spent profitably as wages, have induced them to employ all the idle hands, and there is not at this moment one able-bodied man receiving relief from the poor rates throughout the Union.' " Bradford Union, commenced the 28th of March, 1835-, The guardians began by a c l ose exam i nat i on o f t h e list 43‘ 1,200 paupers, and detected a great many impositions. The Vice-Chairman of the Board considers that the present actual saving in consequence of this examination, and of adopting the system of partial relief in kind, is not less than 2,0001• per annum; and that a further saving to the same amount may be confidently expected. " Alton Union, commenced the 3d of April, 1835. The accompanying document (B) will show the saving in several parishes of that union to be more than forty per cent.; and the fact that wages have advanced in two of those parishes , in consequence of that saving, is uncommonly satisfactory. • " Smith Stoneham Union, commenced the 27th of March- Here I find that the weekly relief is reduced one half. With regard to litigation, the Board have as yet no official informa tion before them on the subject ; but it is notorious that it i 3 enormously reduced, so much so as to be a source of considera ble inconvenience to Barristers attending Sessions. I venture to say that I have no doubt of the poor expenditure being re duced nearly fifty per cent. in all those districts which come under our regulations—comprehending, eventually, the whole of England and Wales. At the end of the period of five years and a session, for which our Commission is appointed, the ex penditure of the poor, instead of being six millions p e r annuli], and upwards, will only be three millions per annum, and up' wards. It is more difficult to give an opinion respecting the rate at which this reduction. will take place, but I shall be much disappointed if the year ending March, 1838, does net show a diminution of 1,530,0001., as compared with the yea r ending March, 1834." It appeared, then, that the market P r labour, when left to itself, absorbed nearly th e w h o l e o f th e Pc?: sons ho were formerly in the workhouse. He would ask to . ' Hon. Friend opposite, who had manifested great anxiety on the subject, whether the benefit which had a l rea dy ar i sen f rom ti l union of parishes had not been nearly equal in these district : to any that could result from the red uc ti on o f t axa tion; It appeared, also, from the last statement he had reaw that the new system of poor laws was likely, within a short period, to benefit the agricultural interest to the es tent of 1,530,000/. a year. He had no doubt, if this Act continued to be judiciously administered under the superin tendence of the Commi ss i oners , th at i t wou ld not b e long be fore the poo r ra t es wou ld b e re d uce d to one- h alf t h e i r present amount. • He was not ,so much gratifi e d th a t th ose who paid the poor rates would b ene fit as on anot h er aeccount-vitis igre‘ t source of gratification was, becam e he believed that th e OW system of Poor Laws was infinitely m ore b ene fi c i a l t h an t h e old, system, to those who received the p o o r ra t es . If t h e m onei was left in the pocket of one c l ass , th at w hi c h was i n finitely more important was created in the other, namely, the inde pendent feeling of relying on their own exertions for the means of support.—( Hear.) He contended, therefore, that the people relieved by the Poor Laws would be mainly be nefitted by the new law, while those who contributed to the rates would be relieved. There was only one test more to which he would refer, to show the improvement that had takes place in the condition of the people. He had referred to the savings banks and poor rates ; but there was another test which applied more particularly to the trading classes—he mean t the number of bankruptcies and insolvencies. It appeared frorn the return that he held in his hand that there had been gradual diminution the last three years : The number of persons declared ban ) ::rupts in the L a ndoll Gazette for the years following, viz. - i_ 1830 1831 • 1832 1833 1834 . ..: 1835 Ist August The n"::idier of persons who have declared themselves ill -9°lve".. for the like period, viz. : _ 1830 1831 1832 1833 1832 1835 .to the Ist of August Number of persons discharged as insolvent debtors:- 1832 1833 1834 There were other tests besides to which he had allude d ,' which would prove the general well-being of the country, b u ,, he thought these to be of great importance. Before quittia'c' this part of his subject he would take the opportunity of sayia a few words with regard to the manufactures of the country' He was happy to state, with regard to these, that the Gend h e- , men who had been appointed Commissioners of factories 1 -1 Government were one arid all agreed in their statements, be t ' of facts and figures, that an increase had taken place, p a rtieu: lady in the north, to an extent far greater than could ha been hoped for, and that a future increase, even still more ~“1 ss vourable might be calculated upon. He would riot trespre7t upon the House with the details of the improvement, b`'`,, he would read one paper exhibiting the extent o f th e increa s " in the West of England, that was in the counties of Gle tl ; tester, Wilts, and Somerset. In Gloucester the increase 01 , seven per cent., in Wiltshire 25 per cent., and in Somerset, s shire 25 per cent., whilst the general average increase o a about 11 .`per cent. In Ireland also manufactures eie re on the increase ; many mills were in a state of being finish ed ' and lie had it upon the authority of one of the Commissiolns . upon who .he could_ firmly. rely that ere long-they would enabled to export mill-spun flax to Flanders to be manuf"., tured. He was not at present prepared to make any COns i e derable reduction of taxes, nor indeed did he think the Hon e , could expect him to do so, or that the state of the reven li d would warrant it. He would never consent to a reduction..., taxation inconsistent with the security of publi c credit ( Hear)—nor would he ever seek to acquire popularity O re gained—( General Cheers)—but still he th o u g ht that the la were two or three points upon which with ou t d anger he CO ti , afford some relief. In the early part of th e s e s s i on many Petit tions had been presented to the House on the subj ec t of sP i ,. licences, and his Hon. and Learned Friend opposite ( Sir Follett) brought the question before the House,, 'cut I.P agreed t mately areed to leave the measure in his (the Chancellor iv e the Exchequer's) hands, on his promise that he would g ijci it his utmost consideration. He wo u ld n o t m e ddl e with t er principle of the measure of his N o ble Friend—( w e - J" D ` c ; stood the Right Hen. Gentleman. to allude to Earl Spencejoi4 a measure which was countenanced by the opinion of the 0. " House, but he would endeavour to remedy any injustic e a 4 inequality which might occur from tie carrying out a 0 0 principle. With respect to the increase of 50 per cent: .05 those licenses, it would be admitted that it fell o ppressi' re j on those whose consumption of spirits was small coinP . a o . with that of beer and other articles. It was too hard to L°. sa pel those whose sale was so limited to take out licenses n" ci a heavy a rate. He did, not think the great i nn k e epers ha 01 fair or just claim to such reduction, bu t on ly th ose wit° 9 for small quantities, and had in but a few gallons at a til l ' e er s.. the purpose of obliging and accommodating their custom It was, he confessed, too hard to call upon su c h a s those s' v .ke consumption was limited to a few gallon s i n th e year to r.c, out licenses at the full amount, a n d h e wou ld, theren7,o`► although prepared to adhere to th e p r i nc ipl e of the 1 05 admit of a reduction which would a ff or d re li e f to persons'sir circumstanced. He hoped his Hon. and Lea: ned Friend for W. Follett) would be satisfied with this, and not pre, ss t bis more. The reduction in the r evenue i n consequ ence o i l ti would be about 40,0001., a n d th e p ro p ose d re li e f we ed to tend to those whose consumption of spirits was limi t fifty gallons annually. There w as another article of no r eh nufactures which, though already imp or t an t, w as one , w oo l 0 he thought capable of great i m p rovemen t, a nd to wilie r ' 9 050 encouragement ought to be afforded, as well for the PT . t.S P f t p of increasing its consumption at home as to promote ji be reign sale--he meant the article of flint glass The state a se revenue with regard to this article showed a very large in e r t o he in the smuggling trade. The duty at present was 6d. c e iz i g ht; pound, but on exported glass (as we understood th Hon. Gentleman) a drawback of 7d. was allowed for wa rt thus those who export paid in fact no duty. Thera°. iio =~_ Sit( for tat Co Th gat fro Ittit ( itweSi 'Oft", it it, We(