The Sun. — London, England, 1848-06-24 00:00:00

%./lIPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, June 23. _ Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions against the Scotch Registration Bill, which were or dered to be referred to the Select Committee on those Bills. The Bishop of NORWICH presented several petitions in favour of the Health of Towns Bill. The Bishop of LONDON presented some petitions with a similar prayer. Lord BROUGHAM complained of the exemption of London from the provisions of the Bill. Lord CAMPBELL defended the Government mea sure. LAW REFORM The NOBLE Loup then moved the second reading of the Administration of Justice Bill.—Agreed to. The Bill was then read a second time. CASE OF VISCOUNT ARBUTHNOT. The LORD CHANCELLOR informed the House that two bills had been found against Viscount Ar buthnot, a Scotch Peer, for forgery, and had been re turned to the House; and, in conformity with precedent, he moved for the appointment of a Committee to whom the papers should be referred, and also that the Black Rod be directed to take Viscount Arbuthnot into cus tod y.—Agreed to. The NOBLE AND LEARNED LORD then moved that the 'Committee should consist- of all the Peers who had at tended Parliament this session, of whom five should be a quorum ; and he also moved that the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas should be ordered to attend the Committee.—Agreed to. JOINT STOCK COMPANIES BIM. Earl GRANVILLE moved the second reading of this Joint Stock Companies Bill. If their Lordships would consent to the second reading ho should not propose that the Bill should be committed before Monday, July 3. The Bill was read a second time. EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL. Lord REDESDALE brought up the report on this Bill. The Noble Lord said, in order to prevent the irregularity which took place last night, he should on Menday move standing orders to the effect that when a Bill was com mitted or re-committed in the absence of the Noble Lord the Chairman of Committees, that the House should re sume. The Noble Lord concluded by moving that the amendment, as made last night, be adopted. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said, that'on the third reading he should move that the amendments adopted last night be 4jected. Lord MONTEAGLE defended the amendments, as calculated to a?; )rd greater relief. The Earl of MskLMESBURY said that the third reading of the Bill should not take place on Monday if the Noble Marquis (Clauricarde) wished to have a full attendance of Peers, The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought, as the amendments which had been introduced would be likely to lead to serious consequences, that an opportunity should he given ter a re-consideration of the amendments adopted last night, but as the measure had long been before their Lordships, he did not consider that it would be necessary to postpone the third reading of the Bill beyond Monday. The report was then received. and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday. THE POLES AT PWEN. Lord KINNAIRD, pursuant to notice, rose to put the following question, namely, "Whether a copy of the con vention, signed by th e P russ i an R o y a l Comm issary, Gen. Willisen, at Jarostaweie, with the Poles, on the 11th of April,anrl proclamations by the same general subsequen t to that period, had been communicated to the Government by her Majesty's Minister at Berlin; and if so, whethsr the Government would object to lay such papers on the table?" His object was to have the best means of con eradicting statements imputing acts of great cruelty te those uiefortunata people, the. Pole?, who h ad been seri ously' injured in the estimation of their friends by the ciaeulatien of such reports, first through the medium of the English, and afterwards by the German, pre ss , Th e successful insurrection at Berlin naturally excited sym 'pathetic feelings in the Duchy of Posen, and a portion Of the population sent a deputation to Berlin, c l a i m i ng simi lar privileges, but they did not wish to thr ow o ff the Prus sian yoke. When they arrived they found that the Polish state prisoners had been released, and they were perfec satisfied_ The. King grant e d t h e claims urged by thedeY legation, but the German authorities intrig ued in Berlin to prevent the prop ose d f reedom. The Pru ssian soldiers expelled fr om Berlin w en t to P osen, and committed many atrocities on the Poles, General Willisen was then sent by the King to Posen, and found the Prussian soldiers about to attack the Poles, martial law having been declared. The King, however, apprehended an attack from Russia on Posen, and looked to the Germans anal Poles combined there as his main defence. A con vention. w as s i gne d , under which the Poles laid down their arms; nevertheless as a body of them were passing through a village they were fired upon by the Germans. It had been said that the Poles had committed the greatest atrocities on the Jews; but the fact was that only five Jews in all had been executed, and they had been found with arms in their hands attacking the Germans. The greatest cruelties had been committed on the Poles; in fact they had called down the strongest animadversions of the Prussian authorities. All the details would be found in the papers for which he was about to move; and it was necessary to have this matter cleared up, because a great deal of the truth, with reference to the Poles, had been suppressed by the Ger man papers. A lady, a proprietor of large est a t es in Posen, ha w ri tten to the German papers, contradict ing the statements with reference to the alleged misconduct of the Poles, in consequence of which she had been sub jected by the Germans in Posen to the utmost indig nity and persecution. General Willisen and the Arch bishop of Posen had also given their testimony in favour of the conduct of the Poles ; and there was no doubt about their being grossly misrepresented. The Noble Lord eoncladed by putting the question of which he had given notice. The Marquis of L ANSDOWNE sympathised with the motion of th• Noble Lord, yet he deprecated inter ference in matters of foreign policy with which this country had nothing to do. He thought he was there fore justified, in consequence of the extreme inconve nience which might result from its being supposed that the Parliament of this country had taken cognizance of such proceedings, in refusing to accede to the motion of the Noble Lord. The Earl of HARROWBY was very glad that the motion had been made, because it gave him an oppor tunity of stating his cordial concurrence in the senti ments of the Noble Lord who had brought the subject .before their Lordships. Lord BEAUMONT said the man was profoundly ignorant of what was passing in Europe who did not perceive the possibility of the events now taking place in Poland leading to a general European war. This coun try had already done much harm by refraining to express its opinion on such events. Had it done so before the lawless invasion of Denmark, that dangerous aggres sion would not now have had to be terminated by protracted neeotiations. As the matter stood, it might even disturb our relations with the Baltic. The matter before the House touched the interests of England as much as any alteration of the balance of power could do. Many communications from Posen, from Germans as well as Poles, had led him to retract the opinion he had at first formed that the inhabitants of Posen had fallen into errors and perhaps crimes ; he was now convinced that , they could not justly be stigmatised as they had been hy himself On a former occasion; and h e re j o i ced in this opportunity of stating that the pai n f u l he had at first entertained was removed. imp Stillress ion he thought the Posen Committee of Safety had fallen into error i n attempting to remove all the Government employes, inasmuch as the Ge rman population had a right to have their sentiments consulted as well as the Poles. The Archbishop of Posen had been blameable in making this a sectarian movement. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII, on the point of order, suggested that long speeches ought not to b e made one mere questien, which was only permitt e d f or the sake of -avoiding the necessity of a motion. Nothing a more inconvenient than to touch incidentally and :rae. gularly on the convulsions now agitating Europe from oae end to the other, and on the effect they were likely to have on our relations with those states. The reason was that the opinion of the House was apt to be misre presented; f or , if a mot i on were submitted, Noble Lords who were acquainted with the subject would then come fully prepared to discuss it. Lori' BEAUMONT proceeded to speak in explana7 tion, *hereupon Earl FITZWILLIAM rose to order, and the discus sion terminated. • STA OF IREL. • The , Norms EARL then rose to bring forward the resolutions of which he had given notice, on the state of Ireland. It was now seven months since Parliament assembled, and what had been done? Was the condition of Ireland suet as to satisfy the Hous? At the meeting of Parliament, Government invited them, the whole of Ireland called on them, to legislate for the suppression of the crimes there prevailing. Without the least doubt or delay Parliament assented to the measures proposed, and were prepared even to strengthen the hands of Go vernment with still more powerful measures. But the Government exercised a wise discretion, and the result had proved that they had made no immoderate de mand on Parliament. The law thus passed had been administered with the greatest discretion, and the most untiring zeal and energy ; and to the Executive' of Ireland, next to the Government, was the country' indebted for the success of that measure. It would ill become- either House of Parliament to separate without expressing this opinioa so generally enter tained. The Government had performed a great and difficult task with signal success; and the Irish Execu tive had had the rare felicity of enlisting in its aid the almost una nimous feeli ng of the people. Formerly that feonelin there had been no difficulty in inducing witnesses to come forward, and other parties to take the necessary steps for securing the execution of the law. But, he would ask, what furthe r had been done? Did the House suppose the condition of Ire Th land was s uc h as to require no further legislation? They had prevention of crime; passed laws for the but what had they done to benefit the condition of the people, and strengthen their attach ment to the cause of peace and order? In framing such measares it was necessary to have a due regard to all classes and conditions of the Irish people. On a subject like this be could not refrain referring to the cours e of legislation in past years. In the last session five important measures had been promised, a new poor law, one for making a loan of a million and a half to landed Proprietors, one for improving waste lands, and others for fl cilitating the sale of - oneumbered estates ; of these, only the two first:. had been passed into law. The sum of a million arida' half ivas no great amount for the purpose in view; but bow had it operated ? Already, of the million an d - a - half, the Commissioners had sanctioned the advance of oPolafds of 1 , 4 00,0001.; but this did little unless the I money was actually advanced, paid a way u and wages,. from which some good to the people might have resulted. The real advance, however, instead of a million and a half, had only been, according:to the last return, 220,000 L, and tnis was to improve 19 millions of acres of land! The great object was to improve the agriculture of Ire land, and increase the production; and in doing this, they ought not to lose sight of the fact that it had been necessary to supply an extensive destruction of the staple food of six millions of people. But the Legisla ture had passed the poor-law. He for one did not com plain of that law, In some electoral divisions, it was true, the poor-rate was 35., 55., or 7s. in the pound; and in one division in the west of Ireland it amounted to ac tually more than the landlords received. He did not suffer from any such burden; in two of the divisions on his estates the rate was only 20., and in none was it higher than 2s. If the poor-rate was no higher throughout Ireland than in the county of Wicklow, no landlord would have reason to complain. He had stated these facts to show that he could not be actuated by any personal feeling in the matter. But when the rate amounted to 3i., 5a., ara. 7e. in the pound, the matter was one demanding serious consideration. He asked their Lordships—and he knew what must be the answer--whether they desired the continuance of a state of ti4rigs which must render property valueless, and at the same time destroy a most useful class of society in Ire;iand, on whom the burden of these rates fell? He was confident that unless the House reconsidered that measure, in its incidence upon property, and in the t?.ivisions which had been made for the purpose of rating, the result he had indicated must ensue, especially in the county of Donegal and others in the west of Ireland. It would necessarily involve the ruin of a large class of proprietors; it would ruin a Noble Friend near him (here the Noble Lord pointed to some one on the Ministerial bench); and, after such extensive ruin, he would ask what could stand between the Go velem:lent of that country and the wild democracy ? , (Hear.) By whom would the mob then be wielded ? (Hear.) He implored the aid of their Lordships to avert this evil, and to lose no time in doing ono thing which was most essential to the tranquillity of Ireland, and to its physical well-being. They had made the property of Ireland liable to support the poverty of Ire land, but let them take care that that property retained its attitude as property, and let them cause it to support one thing more. He must ask them to impose one more burden upon it, to be taken from the shoulders of the people. For the sake of peace and tranquillity, the se curity of the Protestant Church, and the safety of the empire, he asked their Lordships to establish the R oman Catholic religion in that country . This was roost eeen tial, and he would tell his Right Rev. Friends behind him that if they would not have Roman Catholic prelates sit ting here, this must be done. The Roman Catholic priests ought to be paid as stipendiary clergym en; ~,, difference must be made between a commonbetweent hrshepmas n e,they l must a tie Pro testantmoot clergymen;the same to u platter.--(Laughter.) He w ou ld feed o u t now return to the question--what had been done for Ireland this session? Last session the Encumbered E.,- tates Bill had been sacrificed to English interests.—(No, no.) lie maintained that this was th e case, but Were the measure passed, and found to work very smoothly and itssuccessfully,a long t i operation m e before would be a u y extremelyheue beneficial al c slow, ha u and e it would be w ould be produced thereby. If it were naeant '''to allow English int erests to purchase . large estates in Ireland, he anticipated no great benefit from the Every an changednean c a e u an e gesta.knew hands; even ve what in this happened coun t ry w , h b e when knew an te instance in the north of England where a large estate had been sold, and the first considera tion of the new proprietor was, how much additional rent he could raise out of the property. He would much w ra e t r h e er sa s i e d e , t, We haveh,eexisting Irish propri e to rs go on as Well as cooed they co than see th em rep l ace d b y ot h ers . I t i t passed the poor-law, what else can we do?" he would answer, let the poor-law be made to fulfil the object for which it was passed—to maintain the destitute, and gradually to diminish pauperism. Had it done so hitherto? On this head he was prepared with a variety of documents. In the union of B.dinrobe, where the population was 85,000, on the 7th of February last 25,000 were receiving rations, the following week they were upwards of 26,000, and the relief cost 7001. a week, or about 35,0001. a year—being something like 6-. per head on the whole population. That was not the whole expense of the poor -rate, as it was only for out-dor relief. A few weeks after, on the 25th of March, the guardians reported as destitute no fewer a number claim • ing out-door relief than 30,413. Now it se as impossible to allow such a state of things as that to continue—or for her Majesty's Government to rest satisfied with their past policy as sufficient to remedy it. The only remedial measure yet received from the House of Commons, after a sitting of seven months, was the Evicted Tenants Bill, which their Lordships considered on the previous even ing. He quite agreed with his Noble Friend opposite, who said last session that much might be done fur Ire - land by the employment of the people in the construc tion of railways. But in saying that, he did not confine himself to railways. He was for giving employment to ABERAVON MARKET BILL. the people in all other national objects and works which it could come within the p rov i n ce of a Gov ernment to This Bill was read a thi r d t i me an d pas se d. TH ONIAN DE RAILWAY (BRANCH A undertake. It was no fair reason to say that they CAL E ED CLY, AND GLASGOW STATI CROS SON). should be left to private enterprise in Ireland, because On the motion that this Bill be read a third time, they were so in England, seeing that England was Mr. WARD said he could not allow the third read the only country in Europe where such was the case. It might be sa id th a t w h en th ose wor k s woul d ing to pass without taki ng not i ce o f th e most un j ust ifi - be completed the peopl e wou ld b e i n th e same pos i t i on able attacks which h a d b een ma d e u p on t h e B oar d o f as now, and that it wo u ld th en b ecome necessary to Admiralty on a f ormer occas i on , b y t h e Ho construct other works. Hi s re ply t o t h at o bj ect i on was, nourable Member for M o ntr ose . N ever h a d a case , that every new work wou ld b e t h e pro li fic source of he said, been more impartially and l a bo ur iously considered by his Noble Friend (Lord Auckl a nd) a nd others. It was not the m ere construction of a railway from Dublin to Galway th a t h e l oo k e d to so muc h as the other members of the Board, and_h e only r egre tted the building of stores a n d th e ma ki ng o f roa d s , an d that the lion. Member had not given notice that it was his intention to make the observ a tions to which he al those other works consequ en t u p on t h e fi rst , w hi c h would yield employment an d exc it e to i n d ustry . laded, in order that he might have had an o pportunity He would also recommend a large scheme of of replying. The facts of the case were simply these— three years ago a proposition was ma d e t o cross th e emigration as a remedy f u r th e p resen t d ep l ora bl e condition of Ireland. But, whether th e G overnment Clyde with a bridge of seven ar c he s , w hi c h was concurred or not in his suggestion s , h e mus t aga i n opposed by the trustees of the ri ver , th e b r id ge ress u on them the necessi trustees, and indeed by all parties in Gl asgow , an d it press e the condition of that count r y,of loin unless somethin they to had, therefore, received the decid e d o pp os iti on o f th e a were prepared to see i n it di sorgan i zat i on o f soc i ety. Admiralty. During the present y ear , h owever , ever y They must not, however, att em pt t o govern i t w i t h out one of the circumstances had b een c h ange d. Th e com the aid of the gentry. It would not be for the good party now proposed to carry the railway across the river either of the middl e or l ower c l asses to d estroy the in a tunnel, resting upon a si ng l e pi er i n th e m iddl e o f gentry of Ireland • for if they did so the gentry of Eng- the stream, or in such other manner as the Board of Admiralty might direct. The only question now land would soon follow. The Government seemed to think that the poor-law had provided for the comfort of left in doubt was whether there should be one arch or the lower class es; b u t it h a d d one no suc h t hi ng. Th e two arches, but he begged t o say th a t th e compan y people of Irel an d h a d su ff ere d more s i nce t h e pass i ng of could not proceed with the w or k s w ith out th e consent that Act than b e f ore , ow i ng , i n hi s op i n i on, to i ts e ff ect of the board. The company h a d consen t e d t o contri on the feelings of th e p eo pl e . P rev i ous to i ts introduc bute a fund of 12,0001. for the pri vi l ege th us grante d to lion every man was accustome d t o ass i st hi s ne i g hb our . them, which sum was to b e p a id over t o th e P aymaster Indeed, the peasantry i n I re l an d en t erta i ne d sent i ments of the Navy, and to b e a ppli e d by th ® trustees f or upon that subject of w hi c h t h e E ng li s h peop l e h a d no deepening and improving th a t p ar t o f t h e r i ver . Th ose conception. It was prophesi e d a t th e ti me t h at i ts i ne - were the facts of the case, an d h e did no t thi n k a more vitable consequence w ou ld b e t o d estroy those feelings, simple or straightforward e x pl ana ti on cou ld b e g i ven . and that prophecy had been fulfill e d ; f or now , instead of The Bill was then read a third ti me an d p asse d. , an anxiety to assist each oth er , th e answer was , w h ere STANDING ORDERS. charity was demanded, •' go to the relieving officer." It On the motion of Mr. HEATHCOTE; a S e l ec t Com was deeply implanted in th e E ng li s h mind that every mittee was appointed for the revi s i on o f th e s t an di ng thing English must be good, even f or ot h er countr i es. orders, consisting of the following H on . M em b ers: —Si r But, however gratified the En g li s h p eop l e may b e i n William Heathcote, Mr. Ord, Mr. B erna l, M r . G reene , forming that opinion as r egar d e d t h emse l ves, most Sir Robert Ferguson, Mr. Wil son P a t ten , Si r J o h n certainly they had passed a p oor -l aw f or I re l an d Yarde Buller, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. Elli o tt, C a pt a i n J ones , which was utterly at variance with both the feelings Mr. Wrightson, Mr. Home D rummon d, M r . L oc h, M r . and condition of that country, an d b a d p rove d w h o ll y Sotheron, and Mr. Evely n D en i son . ineffectual for attaining the obj ec t s w i t h w hi c h i t was THIRD READINGS. enacted ; the British Parliam en t h av i ng b een o bli ge d to The following Bills were rea d a t hi r d t i me an d Ed vote large sums of money f rom th e p u bli c p urse t o keep E the Irish people from star va ti on . I t was b ecause h e t.aw Edinburgh and Bathgate Railway (Extension and Devi no hope for Ireland in th e measures now b e f ore Perim-ment , Truro Turnpik e - roa d s. wh ment, that he had ventu re d t o b r i ng t hi s su bj ect f orwar d, itehave n and Furness Junction Railway (Extension and to ask the Noble Marquis whether Government had or Deviation Line from Silecroft to Foxfield, &c). any measures for the permanent improvement of Ireland HAMLYN'S ESTATE BILL. in contemplation? The N o bl e L or d conc l u d ed b y mov - The report u p on t hi s B i ll was cons i dered and agreed to. ing the following resolutions :—" That is incumbent PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. upon this House to express the approbation with which Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Bilston, it has viewed the wisdom, energy, and prudence, with prae ing for an extension of the suffrage, vote by ballot, which the Executive Go vernment o f I re l and has been triennial Parliaments, and equal electoral di s t r i c t s . conducted during the recent p er i o d o f diff icu l ty. That Mr. LUSHINGTON presented a similar p e titi on . it is equally the duty of this House to express the deep Dr. BO WRING presented fifty petitions from Man sorrow with which it continues to view the prolonged ches.ter, forty from Bol ton , an d a num b er o f pet i t i ons distresses of m an y c l asses o f t h e I r i s h people, and the front the metropolis, from Glasgow, Stockport, and other regret which it feels th a t th e measures passe d i n the places, to the same effect. concluding session of the late Parliament for the im- Mr. KEOGH presented a petition also in favour of provement of Ireland have not hith er t o b een pro d uct i ve Parliamentary reform. of the benefits which were anticipated from their enact. meta. To ex p ress t h e dec i ded opinion of this House, Captain PECHELL presented several p e titi ons f rom Brighton containing a similar prayer, and also ten peti tmoi; tf ofurther l eg i s l at i ve measures are required for remedy Lions from the same place, praying the Ho use t o consi d er the evils und er w hi ch Ireland labours, for the develop- the the propriety of a measure embodyin g th e p r i nc i p l es The mietarci.nutuatruereaatul and commerce." e a . n ,, cl for the improvement contained in the document called the People's Charter. of its agriculture Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from Glen (); t /ANSDOWNE felt it his duty to tester complaining of intimidation and of general treating he ruoti ugh in doing so he was fully alive at the last election, and praying the House to give the Glen oppose t to the difficultY °f hislosition, in having to object (on electors the protectionoftheballot; also a petition from the ground of incon ee Friend ttiprieicedent) to a testimony in Bristol in favour of Parliamentary presented reform. Sir W. MOLESWORTH similar petitions favour of his Noble land, which the conduct of t th e at LV-Lieutenant of Ire- from London and Bristol. very trying and difficult times, entit l ed Friend, during Colonel THOMPSON presented fifty • • from His petitions His Noble Friend (Earl Fitz w im him (Ilear.) Manchesterand its neighbourhood in favour of Parlia am)com lamed p that the 1 late measures passed for the improv e mentary reform. had not been productive of the benefimtse:t of Ireland Sir G. STRICKLAND presented petitions to the first of those measures to which he would epected. The same effect from Preston, and in favour • of a redaction certain extent, allude was that by which, to a been established. It would not be denied that the greatest Sir B. HALL presented t wo s i m il ar p e ti t i ons f rom hope for Ireland depended on the individual in d ustr Marylebone, also one fro m th e guar di ans o f t h e poor, and the enterprise of her people ; and enterprise a n d ill y_ praying the House to facilitate the emigration of able dustry were always more successful when proceeding bodied paupers. from spontaneous feelings of the people, than when fos- Mr. GRENFELL presented thirty petitions from tered and maintained by artificial means, and by the in- Preston in favour of Parliamentary reform. terference of the Legislature. It would be obvious then Mr. G. BERKELEY presente d pet i t i ons f rom B r i sto l that the best course for the Government or for Perlis- an d other places to the same effect. dr• a WA ment to take was to place the poor and industrious pen- the l bll RD presented a petition from -Sheffield f or pie of Ireland i n th a t p os iti on o f security and safety in also a pet triennial Parliaments, and vote by b a ll o t ; which the fruit s o f th e i r i n d us t r y m ight be assured to the eldest tad fro m an i n di v id ua l , pray i ng t h at four of them, and to secure th e p ro pri e t o r in the possession of Bill s after j th ra should have the power of investigating his property. In this respect he was bound to contend task, which nimi'lad passed through Parliament, as that that the measure of which he had spoken as administerd much for one per telly devolv e d on th e CroWn, was too by his Nobl e F r i en d th e L or d-Li eutenant o f I re l an d had the Parliament ; as 12 , 0 and that they should have seats in been most decidedly successful. He could refer to offi- monopoly of the Bank 07 petition, complaining of the cal statements showing the improved condition of Ire- Mr. HUME presented land in th® great diminution of crime :since that men- parts of the country in faun petitions from different favour of the reforms which he sure had come into operation; and not merely of Ire- had proposed to the House. land generally but of those districts in particular in Mr STUART presented • - a petition from Newark, which crime had previously prevailed to the • * c intoxicating greatest ex against the sale o. liquor s on Sundav tent, as in the counties of Clare, Limerick, Galwa ' Y , Mr. MILES presented a petition from Bristols 8. • against and Tipperary, but where now; comparative security • • laws. reigned. This improvement was evidenced not only in the navigation- a petition FORBES presented from a place in the decrease of prosecutions, but in the altered • Mr. habits a of th e peop l e, and the better cultivation of the Scotland, against the Lunatic Asylums Bill. land.—(H ear , h ear. ) The number of oa r g for e Mr. BERNAL presented a petition from Ro c h ester i n t favour of household suffrage, vote by ballot, and th e di the whol e o f I re l an d h a d d i minished from 2 1 • 6 7 i December l as t year to 1,182 in the last month of the vision vision of the kingdom into electoral districts. Mr. NEWDEGATE presented a petition from 200 present year —a diminution of about one-half- and in persons connected with the Lyceum Theatre, praying that the higher class of outrages he was harpy to say o say the the number of theatres in which foreigners should be falling cc o•-• was in a still greater p • proportion.—(Hear, hear) allowed to perform should be limited to two. So far, then, as giving security to industry Mr. HERRIES presented a petition from the General property, and the results of such securite, the measures of the Government had not been ;hon Committee of Shipowners against the repeal of the navi gation-laws. u nproductive of good. Again, when his Noble Frieli said that nothin Mr COBDEN presented a petition from Hereford, did g had been done to improve the con- 'on of Ireland, h forgot signed by 2,945 persons, in favour of reform. already e the advantage which had resulted from the exertions ofthose Sir GEORGE GREY presented a petition against the persons who had been sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays. employed in going round the country i lecturing on the scienceSUGAß DUTIES. of agriculture. The - teachin I g ... Mr. BRIGHT gave notice that in the !went of the it of those persor AU had been most successful, and in many instances, eve it in the short space of time that had elapsed since the commencement of their labours, a marked impro vOnaent in the cultivation of the land had taken place. kiuch were the improvements to which he looked forwar tl fl'sr permanent benefit to the country — the more so, a a they rested on individual exertion, and were not for( Jed by Parliamentary interference. His Noble Friend had spoken of the small sum issued under the Land Im prOv emen t A c t. Why, the amount of ad vances which t 'had been sanctioned under that Act (deduct ing the applicati on w hi c h h a d b ee n withdrawn)was no less than 1,388 ~000/. There was every inclination to make the adv. mess as f as t as possible, and from what had been al. eady done under that Act the best results in the emPlt iyment o f t h e peo pl e and the improvement of the lan" 4 had followed. He looked forward to great benefits rc..sulting to Ireland from the Bill for facilitating the tale of encumbered estates, which he had every hope ' would pass the other House before the close of the ses sion, as a means of introducing British capital in the improvement of estates which were now, for want of capital, uncultivated. With regard to the poor-law— though he had never looked upon it as a panacea for all the evils of Ireland, nor had it ever been put forward as such by those who proposed it—he must say, after the experience they had had of its working, notwithstanding the abuses and inequality which had attended its opera tion, that he knew of no other means by which the great object could have been accomplished, of saving to a great extent (though unhappily not entirely) a large portion of the population from positive destruction.--(Hear, hear.) He admitted the great benefit that had resulted from the efforts of the British Association and the Relief Commit tees, but these had only followed in the wake of the poor law; and but for the system which that law had estab lished, the exertions of those institutions would have been to a great extent unsuccessful. The fishing stations which had been established andlwere in course of forma tion also promised to be of great service in giving pro fitable and permanent employment to the people. Look ing then at all tbat had been done, he contended that there was every disposition, not only on the part of the Government but of both Houses of Parliament, to con sider the wants of Ireland, and do all that was possible for the relief of that country. With regard to further advances from the consolidated fund for relief works, to advances for emigration, or in aid of railways, it was the tendency of every people, and of the Irish perhaps more especially, to neglect to do that for themselves which they thought Government would do for them. He was therefore disposed, as a general rule, rather to leave such matters to individual exertion than to make them depend on Government interference. As to the Irish Church, he admitted fully the Importance of that subject, and his opinion upon it remained unchanged; but he was not prepare d, on the part of the Government, to say that any measure was in contemplation. The Noble Marquis, concluded by moving the previous ques tion. The Earl of GLENGALL was surprised that during nearly four hours' discussion on the state of Ireland, not one syllable had been said with regard to the main point —which was the system of agitation now going on in that country. It was absurd to suppose that the country could improve or prosper while a system of agitation was allowed to exist which was far beyond any agitation which had taken place during O'Connell's time. Agi tation had gone on so long in Ireland that the people began to consider it a legal proceeding, and expected some great event to arise out of it. There was no class of the community which was not deeply affected by the system, with which neither landlord nor farmer dared to interfere, under pain of falling under the force of that sanguinary code which had met with such general adoption. It was necessary that the must decided steps should be taken to put an end to the agita- tion, for which purpose he recommended the mea sures pursued by Lord Grey, who had contrived to put it down -for two years.. The system of intimi dation operated most prejudicially upo❑ the trader, who, in - many• - caies, if he did sot supply funds ti) support agitation, had his shop tabooed, arid the same causes rendered - it a matter of extreme difficulty to obtain evi dence, or to induce a proper system of registration. The present agitation also had its effect upon capital, many persons in Ireland having sums varying from 2,0001. to 5,0001, and being unable to employ them. Ile consi. dered that an extendon of the railway system would be a measure calculated to benefit the country, and urged the Government to take it into their consideration. Ile hoped while we were at peace with all the world that something would be done to stop the agitation, in order that Ireland, instead of being a dead weight, might be a tower of strength for this country. The LORI) CHANCELLOR then read the resolu tions, and put the previous question, which was agreed to without a division. Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter past Ten. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 23. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. amendment of the Hon. Member for Droitwich being re jected by the House, he should take the first opportunity of moving that it was not expedient at peeseut to make any alteration in the Sugar Duties Act of 1846. POLICE MAGISTRATES. en many points, he had acted against him in that House quite as frequently as with him, but thin he would say of the Hon. Gentleman, that no man ever sat in that House who had brought to the public service a purer or more entire disinterestedness—(Cheers from both sides of the House)—and this he would say further, that had the Hon. Member's object, on the contrary, been a sordid and personal one, and had he devoted to that sinister purpose one tithe of the indefatigahle industry, the fearless energy, the powerful ability, that he had devoted to the service of the people, he could long since have secured that object, as many men, of infinitely less claim, had secured it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member, how ever, had acted upon other and far difiercut principles, and he had his great reward in the respect and esteem of all parties. alike within and without that House. Mr. HUDSON concurred iu the expression of respect paid to the Hon. Member for Montrose, but thought it would be better if Members of the Legislature were to avoid any share in Government patronage. Mr. C. ANSTEY said that the reason why the House had rescinded its resolution respecting Horsham was the conduct pursued by the Government with respect to Cheltenham. In answer to a question from Mr. FORSTER, Sir GEORGE GREY stated that the police magis trates in sending some of the Chartist rioters to trial did so upon their own responsibility and not through any instruction that was forwarded from the Home-office. In his opinion they displayed a sound discretion in sending them to trial. MISAPPROPRIATION OF PUBLIC MONEY IN IRELAND. On the motion that the House, at its rising, do ad journ till Monday, Sir B. HALL rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of the House to an instance of a misappro priation of public money under the Land Improvement Ireland Bill. Those who were Members in the last Par liament wouhi remember that in addition to the large sums of money advanced for relieving Ireland an Act was pessed authorising a loan of 1,500,0001. to the landed proprietors in Ireland. Under this Act 5001. was advanced last autumn to Mr. O'Neil, a landed proprietor in the county of Galway, upon the understanding that it was to be expended in the improvement of his property, so as to afford employment in the ensuing winter to the poor of the neighbourhood, but instead of doing that he applied the money to liquidating a bill which had become overdue at his bankers. Upon the Commis sioners threatening to take proceedings against him, Mr. O'Neil, with a degree of extraordinary modest assurance. asked for a second loan in order that he might give his starving tenantry employment. That was the case so far as it regarded Mr. O'Neil. He , wished to know, therefore, whether any legal pro ceedings had been instituted against Mr. O'Neil to recover the money which had been advanced to him to carry on the works in pursuance of the Act? lie wished also to call the attention of the House to the case of Lord De Freyne, to whom 70,0001. had been advanced by the Government for the purpose of carrying on certain pu bli c works on his estates in the county of Roscommon. There was a clause in the Act called the Duke of Wellington's clause, which pro vided that all money advanced under it should be paid by the borrower in wages, and in the current coin of the realm, but Lord De Freyne, instead of acting up to the spirit or intention of the Act, had only paid ten per cent. to the labourers he employed, which he did in supplies of meal, and the remaining ninety per cent. he paid in cheques upon his agent, who, however, did not cash them, but placed the amount to the liquidation of the arrears they owed for rent. When the fact was communicated to the Board of Works, they came to a resolution nut to advance any more money, upon which an intimation was sent by the brother of the Noble Lord (Mr. Fitzstephen French, the Member for Roscommon), that it the Government interfered between the employer and the employed, his brother would dismiss the whole of the labourers, and abandon the unexpe.nded part of the loan. Lord De Freyne had carried out that intention, and the la bourers were now in a most wretched state in consequence of not being paid the wages which they expected they would have received under the Act. He thought he had stated enough to show that the clauses of the Bill had not been carried out, and that in stead of the money advanced out of the Imperial Trea sury having been paid in the coin of the realm, as pro vided by the Act, that it had been paid in this way-10 per cent. in meal, end 90 per cent. in cheques on the agent of the Noble Lord, who placed the amount to the credit of the tenants who were considerably in arrear with their rents. Thus Lord De Freyne was enabled to get his land improved and his arrears of rent paid up. He wished to know if, after what had taken place, the Go. vernment intended to continue the advances to that Noble Lord. Mr. MUNTZ would suggest to the Hon. Baronet op posite that had the Reform Bill been passed in the shape originally proposed by Earl Grey, there might very pro bably have been no cry since for further Parliamentary reform.—(Rear, hear.) He should support the issue of the writ, since Government seemed disposed to take no steps for prosecuting the inquiry recommended by the Committee. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Government had as sisted the Hon. Member for the Flint boroughs with the legal co-operation of the Solicitor-General an I of the Judge-Advocate, and he himself had done all he could in the way of giving the Hon. Member opportuni ties for proceeding with his Bill. There had been so much opposition to it, however, on the other side of the House, at every stage, that much delay had been occa sioned, and there seemed the probability of much further delay before an inquiry into the alleged bribery in the borough orDerby could take place. In fact, if the House did not issue the writ until;after inquiry, there was every probability, considering the state of public business and the period of the session, that the writ would not issue at all until next session. Under these circumstances, he thought it would be unfair to withhold the writ any longer, bearing in mind, as he did, that the issue of the writ now would in no way preclude that inquiry into the alleged bribery which the Committee had re commended. Mr. THORNELY called upon the House to sustain the decisions of its Committees. The conduct of the Election Committees in this, the first Parliament after the statute creating them as now constituted, had by its impartial and straightforward honesty given general satisfaction to the country ; but if Committees found that their decisions were not sustained by the House, they would be discouraged from an adherence to that course which they had hitherto pursued. It appeared to him that the issuing of writs in this way to boroughs formerly convicted of much bribery and grievously sus pected of still more, would be holding out a premium to corruption.—(Hear, hear.) Sir H. PEEL adhered .to the opinion he had formerly expressed, that the Government ought to have lost no time in taking some step or other for prosecuting those inquiries which the S -lest Committees had specially re ported to be essential to the purposes of justice.—(Hear, hear.) Had the Government itself brought forward a measure for this object, one night's discussion, or less, would have effected the purpose, and have saved the House many hours, many evenings he might say, that had since been lost in desultory debates on the subject.—(llear, hear.) It really appeared to him very manifest that, under the peculiar circum stances of the case, with the demand for inquiry from so many quarters, the demand for further changes in the franchise, the demand for an extension of the Act of 1832—it really appeared to him that no time should have been lost in prosecuting an inquiry into the cases where corruption was charged.—(bear, hear.) Here, in this borough of Derby, in the only ten cases of alleged bribery proceeded with, out of 166 indictments, all had been clearly brought borne to the parties, and the Committee reported that they had strong grounds fur the belief that had the inquiry gone on the same result would have taken place in the other cases. That inquiry did not go on, simply because the parties, seeing this result, thought it advisable to withdraw. The question was, whether the House, too, should withdraw from the inquiry —(Hear, hear)—or whether, until full inquiry had been made, the course of justice did not require that the writ should be suspended. It was his decided opinion that it should, and he should, therefore, oppose the issue of the writ.—(Hear, hear.) Sir H. INGLIS contended that it would be unjust to the 1,660 electors of Derby, whose conduct had not been impugned, to disfranchise them until next session, or, perhaps, till next Parliament, because ten other electors had been proved guilty of corruption, and 156 others not proved, but suspected of it. Mr. AGLIONBY said he should abstain from voting one way or the other. After the course the House had taken with reference to two other boroughs, he could not vote against the issuing of the writ; and, with his opinion of the conduct of the Derby constituency, he could not vote for it. He considered that the House had failed in its duty in not prosecuting an inquiry, since Government had omitted to do so. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who was very indistinctly heard, was understood to say, with respect to the case of Mr. O'Neil, that the Honourable Baronet had fallen into a mistake. It ap peared that the works in question were suspended owing to the state of the weather, but that they would be immediately proceeded with. The Government did not interfere with the works undertaken by landlords on their own property, except to ascertain that the money voted was expended for the avowed purpose for which it was asked; but, as the lion. Gentleman had not given him notice of his question, and as it required reference to Ireland, he was unable to give as satisfac tory a reply as ho otherwise should. Second advances were not made unless the parties to whom they were made could show that they had property ex pended the first. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Roscommon (Mr. F. French), was better acquainted with the matter than he could pretend to be, and, perhaps he would explain that matter to the House. Mr. F. FRENCH wished to state, on behalf of the Noble Lord with whom he was so intimately connected, that the departures from the,Acts were committed en tirely without his knowledge or sanction, and that as soon as he found what had taken place he wrote over to his agent to strictly comply with the provisions of the Acts. Every order of the Commisaioners had been obeyed, and every payment that had been made since the issuing of the circular had been made in cash. DUTY ON RUM. In answer to a qnestion from Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER excused himself for not answering yesterday the Hon. Gentle man's question in reference to the duty on rum, by stat ing that he was anxious to consult his colleagues upon the subject before, giving a final answer. It was the opinion of the Chairman of the Excise that a di ff erential Mr. S. HERBERT asked why had not the Hon. and Learned Member himself vindicated the character of the House by undertaking the task he reproached them for leaving undone.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Unlike the Hon. Member. he should vote, and his vote would be against the issuing of the writ. Mr. BRIGHT said that the blame of all the inconsis tency of the House in these matters rested upon the Go vernment, whose vacillations had been such as to have utterly confused every one, and more especially that party of Hon. Gentlemen who habitually, without any very nice inquiry, voted as Government voted. These gentlemen had become wholly at a loss out of which door the Government wanted them to walk upon these divisions. As a teller on the previous night, he had observed four of them, whose votes turned the division, who had evidently lost their way on the occasion. It appeared to him that the House was bent upon wholly forfeiting with the people whatever character still re mained to it. duty of 4d. upon rum would afford ample protection to the Irish distiller, and Government had therefore deter mined to persevere in their original proposition of re ducing the duty from 6cl. to 4d. AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. Mr. URQUHART wished to ask the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a question in re ference to the affairs of Spain. It would be remem bered that at the time he moved for a return of the amount of arms and ammunition supplied by this country to Spain, the Noble Lord stated that this country had claims upon Spain, in reference to those supplies which were unsatisfied. Now, the return which he now held in his hand represented that all the claims were satisfied, and the question he wished to ask the Noble Lord was, whether the return was correct in that respect or not? Lord PALMERSTON said he would answer the question on Monday. Mr. URQUHART asked if the Noble Lord could state how it was that the return was not signed ? Lord PALMERSTON said he would answer that question also on Monday. Mr. OSBORNE gave notice that on Monday he would put a question to the Noble Lord respecting the Spanish correspondence, and the position of this country in re ference to the Quadruple Treaty. The motion for the adjournment of the House was then agreed to. SUSPENDED WRITS — BOROUGH OF DERBY. Sir J. PAKINGTON moved that Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a new writ for electing two burgesses to serve in this present Parliament for the borough of Derby, in the room of the Right Honourable Edward Strutt and the Honourable Edward Frederick Leveson Gow r, whose election 'has been determined to be void. The Hon. Member stated that it was most unfair to sus pend the writ for Derby, which contained between 30,000 and 40,000 inhabitants, w h en writs had been issued for Cheltenham and Horsham, where similar practices to those complained of at Derby had been carried on. Mr. HUME said if it was the intention of Hon. Mem bers to bring the proceedings of the House into ridicule and contempt, such a course as that taken by the Honourable Mover was calculated to do so.-- (Hear, hear.) In cases of bribery in boroughs the House had lately taken a most inconsistent course, having one day refused to issue a writ, and another day con sented to issue one. He wished the House to feel that it was time to put an end to this corruption; and notwith standing the act of the House last night he hoped they would not, upon this occasion, sanction the issuing of the writ to another corrupt borough. Why he was told of one town where there were not fifty of the consti tuency free from corruption!—(Cries of " Name.") St. Alban's was the town he meant.—(Laughter.) If they issued this writ they would give a sanction to acts of corruption. Sir J. TYRRELL, as an old Member, wished to ad dress a word or two to the Hon. Member for Montrose. Before the passing of the Reform Bill he remembered that the Honourable Member for Montrose every night drew a long bill upon futurity in the shape of prognosti cations as to what purity they should have throughout the country if the Reform Bill passed into a law. The Honourable Member occupied much of the public attention, aud much more of the time of that House, with that sort of statement. H e bad continued ever since to give moral lectures to the House upon all sorts of questions, and upon none so much as upon questions of public expenditure. There was the Hon. Member for Bolton had got a place for his son, almost a sinecure place, of 5001. a year upon one of those useless commis sions which the Hon. Member made such a fuss about on all other occasions. And there were other Hon. Gentlemen of the Hon. Member's clique who had in like manner got places for relatives, as the return he had moved for would show. Mr. ELLICE begged to protest most emphatically against these personalities.—(Hear, hear.) As to the commission upon which the valuable services of the son of the Hon. Member for Bolton had been secured, it was one instituted to conduct a scientific inquiry of a most important character, and which could not be ade quately conducted by a Committee of the House. There was no department of the public service which more than the Mint required the scientific investigation now about to be applieit to it.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. P. BENNET, as a member of the Derby Com mittee, begged to remind the House that the Committee had brought bribery home in the clearest manner to the ten cases, which, out of the 166 cases of bribery al leged, had alone been gone into, the parties at that stage of the inquiry declining to prosecute further. There was, however, such strong suspicion attaching to the re maining repert recommending cases, mmee tha t fe t r h t e Committee herieqeiry, House was aware. o ld made which that Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Hon. Baronet the Member for Essex, had charged the Government with creating a useless commission, and with having been guilty of what was called a job, in appointing the son of the Hon. Member for Bolton its secretary. Now, with reference to the commission, as his Right Hon. Friend had just observed, there was especial need for close and scientific inquiry into the whole system and management of the Mint, and this inquiry could only be conducted by scientific and highly intelligent persons, applying their whole attention to the subject in a way winch euu:clarcely Le expensed lei/La at, (dailiay Committee up stairs. As to the Hon. Member fur Montrose, he had differed from that Hon. Gentleman Lord 'MAHON supported the issuing of the writ. Mr. V. SMITH denied that the present law of con troverted elections was satisfactory to the people, who merely regarded the honest decisions pronounced by the Committees this session in the light of a series of fortu nate accidents, not as the result of a sound system. It was essential to render election tribunals cheaper of ac cess, speedier in their proceedings, and to inspire greater confidence in their doesiona. Mr. COBDEN (who was met like nearly all the pre vious speakers with loud cries of " Divide, divide") said it was really very difficult to get in a word. If you rose to speak at a quarter to seven you were put down by Members who wanted to dine ; if you rose to speak at ten you were put down by Members who had dined.— (Laughter.) He considered that while the Noble Pre mier ought, in accordance with the principle,: he had so emphatically enunciated, to have prevented, by his active efforts, the issuing of the write to Horsham—since ccx tain it was that, aided by the Right Hon. Member fur Tamwortb, he could do as he pleased in that House—yet that the Noble Lord was not wholly to blame in the mat ter, for, manifestly, progress had been delayed by the knot of gentlemen who sat on the lower ranges of benches opposite. Whatever the House might do in the matter, the case would be regarded out of doors on a very distinct and comprehensive basis. Ad these things, viewed by the people as the outward and visible sign of in ward corruption, were weighed accordingly. He held in his hand a petition signed by a most respectable person, who prayed that the borough of' St. Alban's might be placed in schedule Aof the Hon. Member for Flints Bill. Mr. Sturt, tae petitioner, stated that at the List election for St. Alban's the corruption and bribery were open and unblushing; that bad as had been the doings at former elections there, those at the late election were still worse; that the two opposing candidates re turned were men of directly contrary principles, the one being a high Tory and the other a strong Radical, that their election had been conducted by the same agent, and their bribery and corruption had bee❑ paid out of the same purse,—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Sturt distinctly stated, that of the 400 and odd persons who voted, there were not 50 who had not taken a bribe. The petitioner affixed his name and address to his petition, and prayed for leave and opportunity to prove his case. And this was not the only case that needed inquiry; by no means. He (Mr. Cobden) be lieved that the majority of the borough members re turned to that House had been returned either by bribery and corruption or by patronage. No one could doubt that the House was indifferent to corruption. The seats vacated by the recent decisions of the Election Committees ought to have been transferred to large con stituencies, such as Kensington, Staleybridge, and Barnsley. Mr. REPTON, as one of the Members for St. Alban's, denied, in the most solemn manner, the imputation of the Hon Member for the West Riding. He had no know ledge of his Hon. Colleague previous to the moment when he met him on the hustings, and he neither, di rectly nor indirectly, had anything to do with the alleged proceedings at the election for St. Alban's. Mr. NE WDEG ATE said he should divide in favour of the issue of the writ. Mr. HORSMAN protested against the inconsistency displayed by the House, which would throw discredit upon its proceedings in cases of corruption at elections. He should vote against the issue of the writ. Lord GALWAY said that the Hon. Member for the West Riding had unjustly attacked small boroughs, of one of which he was a representative. The Hon. Mem ber himself only owed his election for the West Riding to the creation of faggot votes. Colonel SIBTHORP said that he had so little confi dence in the Hon. Member opposite, as to be determined, if he told him to go in one direction, to go in the oppo site one.—(A laugh). The House then divided, when there appeared— For issuing of the writ Against it Majority against issuing of the writ---15 The writ is consequently still suspended. SUGAR DUTIES—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to otter an explanation, in consequence of a misrepresentation by the Honourable Member for Westbury, of a statement made by him on a formerevening relative to the cot of the pro duction of sugar in the slave c , )lonics of Cuba, Brazils, and Porto Rico. The lion. Member had accused him of making a very grave error, and as the question of comparative cost of production was at the very root of the Nest India claims, ho begged leave to make a few observations in defence of his former state ment, which he was prepared to assert was correct in all its parts, whilst that made by the Hon. Member for %Vesthury was erroneous to the extent of the difference between them ; and he must express his belief am: the Honourable Member had not given careful attention to the evidence printed in the West Indian Committee re port, notwithstanding he had so entirely relied on it. The SPEAKER called the Hon. Baronet to order. Sir J. PAKINGTON—The Hon. Member was aware that the figures which he had given as the net cost pro duction of sugar in the three slave colonies named was the result after the value of the ruin and molasses, and the interest of money with some other inevitable charges, had been deducted. The Hon. Member had omitted to take tho,e items into his estimate. There was also a deduction made by him (Sir J. Pakington) of Is. sd. lot the superior value of clayed sugars above Muscovadoes, the sugars from Cuba and Brazils being all clayed. The same authorities had furnished both himself and the Hon. Member for Westbury, with the data which they had respectively offered to the House, the only differences being in the deductions which he had made. Tne Hon. Baronet then referred to the West India Committee Blue-book, and cited the cost of sugar at Porto Rico, as stated by the Consul there, in exemplification of his mode of estimating the relative cost of production. The Consul stated the gross cost to be 16s. sd. per cwt.; from this he had deducted 4s. 6d. for interest of money. &e., Is. for molasses, which left 10s. I id., and from this he deducted Is. 51. as the difference between the value of clayed and Muscovadoes. Thu mean cost of all the slave colonies sugars was, therefore, according to his mode of estimating the net value, 63. 10id., as he had before stated. It was he, therefore, who had made the correct statement, and that offered by the Hon. Member was quite erroneous. Mr. WILSON said that he was informed, and he be lieved correctly, that in the preparation of clayed sugars neither rum nor molasses were produced. At the same time lie must admit that if the lion. Baronet bad accom• puttied his figures with the explanation which he had now given he should not have said what he did. Sir J. PAKINGTON said that he did make the ex planation at the time, but his remarks were not reported. Mr. WILSON was quite satisfied on that point. With respect to the difference in value between clayed and Muscovado sugars, that was taken into account in the differential estimate of cost. He repeated, had he seen the statement of the Hon. Boronet in print, he should not have reviewed his figures. Mr. P. MILES said that the Honourable Member ought to have exercised more caution before he ventured to tax the Honourable Baronet with error. He was disposed to go further than the Right Hon. Gentleman who stated last night (Mr. W. Gladstone), that the West Indians ought to have some relief given to them, be cause they had had none since the emancipation was granted. He (Mr. P. Miles) thought that when the slave labour was taken away and the produce thereby reduced one-half, some means ought to have been afforded the planters of controlling the freed negroes and of obtaining other labourers. Some protection was undeniably due to the West Indies, in order to enable them to compete with the foreign slave colonies. If that was net done they must abandon the West Indian Islands. In fact, orders were going out every day from merchants and West India proprietors here to cease cul tivating their estates. Ile could read some of these letters to the House; and, indeed, he knew that upwards of one hundred estates had been abandoned, owing to the inadequate price of sugar as compared with the cost of producing it. The immediate consequence would be, that the West Indies would cease to produce sugars, and the machinery now there would be transferred to Cuba, from which place the supply would thenceforth come. The Hon. Member for Westbury had read a statement respecting the wages of free labourers in the %Vest In dies. In Guiana they had been reduced only 5 per cent.; in Trinidad, he admitted, the reduction was one halt ; and in other islands (save Jamaica) the reduction was 25 per cent. But what was the amount of wages in the island of Trinidad? Why, for a day of four or five hours only, the free labourers got Is. 3,l.—(Hear, hear.) What made the matter worse was that at this moment the West Indian worked with a certainty of further reduction in the price of this commodity. It had been said that the present distress was not so much attributable to the Bill of 1846 as to the commercial distress prevailing generally over the world. He dif fered from that opinion, seeing that the distress had arisen in the face of an increased consumption to the amount of thirty thousand tons annually, and also because it was immediately co-existent with the in troduction of slave-grown sugar into this country. (Hear, hear.) He had said that the result of the present state of things would be the general aban donment of estates. He would now explain his meaning. He should have said that there would be a cessation of cultivation.---(Hear, hear.) One or two years must elapse before final abandonment, to allow the planter to con vert his stock of canes on hand into rum and sugar. Ul timately they would be abandoned, and England would be placed in the humiliating position of depending for her supply of sugar on the slave-growing contries of Cuba and Brazil. In taking sugar from the latter coun try, the slave dealer was directly encouraged more than any other party. The planter bought slaves from him on credit, paying him enormous interest for the accommo dation, so that the plantations might be said literally to be worked for the benefit of the traffickers in slaves.— (Hear, hear.) Hon. Members asked permission to buy in the cheapest market; why not allow our planters to buy labour on the same priuciple?—(Hear.) At present he was confined to the dearest, paying the free labourer high wages for four or five hours' work, while the planter of Cuba extracted from fourteen to sixteen hours' labour daily from his slaves. The question was entirely one of the supply of labour. Until our planters got a plentiful supply, and at a reasonable rate, it was useless to think of their contending with the foreigner. He had heard it urged that the fertility of the West Indies was not so great as elsewhere. He begged to contradict that assertion. He had seen as good land in the British West Indies as in either Cuba or Brazil. All the planters wanted was labour and capital, and they would produce as heavy crops as their slave•growing neighbours. It was idle to say that they were interested in maintaining a high price. On the contrary, they were as much interested in diminishing the cost of pro duction as Hon. Members opposite, and only asked the means to do so. As to worn-out estates, he did not be lieve in them. In Barbadoes and Trinidad, old colonies where labour was plenty, he believed that they would in a little time be able to hold their ground against the slaveholders. As to the other colonies, let them exercise all the skill and economy in the world, they would not be for some time in a condition to enter into the compe tition which this Bill was calculated to force on them, the fruits and benefits of emancipation would be re tarded, and thus the best possible argument would be af forded in favour of the slaveholder. the three subsequent years was 644,145 cwt., a nd the average for the two years 1846 and 1847 was 6 62, 04) r cwt.; so that th e re was an increase of importati on the whole period from the diminution of the duties • was, therefore, disposed to look to a different taus e for the distress of th e W es t Indies than the diminution °f A protection. Could it b e s hown that protection lone the least good? He challenged any one to ,how him any unbroken prosperity in the %Vest Iselin colonies for any p er i o d o f l ong continuance . --(COie s ° " Hear, hear.") And if he concurred in the protacts ' now proposed, it was rat h er out o f d e f erence to the fa t trigs of others than from an y h o p e i n hi s own mind. .a_ . the West India planters would d er i ve an y b e net; t from —(Hear.) But if they were to have protection at I t; tween this country and the colonies, how were they N adjust the protection between colony and colony tr. cause the cost of production was n o t th e sa me in all , A colonies ? Barbadoes and Antigua, for instance, c produce cheaper than the others. The p ro t ec tion to ° a t colony, then, would be a bounty to th e other, and it was the view of the question taken by Mr. Marriott,. ae sppeared from his evidence before the Committee, r (Hear, hear.) Then, were they to t ax th e labourers °I. this country for, as he would show, th e mos t improvidei lb and extravagant management of estates that ewer known ?—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Bernal.) He WOW prove that to the Hon. Member for Rochester oia t he most unquestionable authority. The truth Inuit bf: told.—(Cheers.) And th e p eo pl e o f t hi s cotint k r i must know it. This tax of los. was n o t to help the labouring population of the West Indies, but to keep up the estates in the West I n di es , no ma tter be" they were managed, and whatever was the cost of pro 7. duction.—(Hear, hear.) Anoth e r groun d p u t forwar es . a justification for protection, was that of high Vr o “ eS. This was the first time he ever heard such an arguelef c. put forward. It was well known that the higher the wages the cheaper the production, and for this reason' that high wages were a consequence of skilled labour, and large production of skilled labour. The great faelt of the West India planters was, that they relied too much en brute labour, and neglected the aid of science, skill, and agricultural improvement.—(Hear.) ea t° Rico, according to Consul Crawford, the wages we'r e ls. 6d. a day, and in Santa Cruz ls. Bd., according Lord Harris. This was higher than was paid in the Pr' . tish West Indies; and vet those islands were in a floe • rishing condition. He believed that if wages were highe r in the West India colonies, that the planters would PT" duce cheaper than they now did. It was said that the Sugar Bill of 1846 ruined th e M aur i t i us . N ow h e w ould prove from the mouths of Mauritius merchants them: selves that this was not so, because, in 1846 itself , before the Bill of that year could have any effect, 01 , made representations to the Government th a t, w ith t he largest supply of labour at the cheapest rate that Wai ever known, they were ruined.—(The Hon. Gentlema n here read a statement made by the merchants of Mal' ruins to the Governor, in which they said that Maur'' tius was ruined, that only the most favourably situ/ estates would yield a profit over the expenditure, so that even these barely yielded a moderate interest on the capital invested, notwithstanding the extent of the crop and the high prices which existed.) This was hi May, 1846.—(Loud cries of " Rear, hear.") In Ser t " 1847, the Governor said that the condition of Mapritis li was an enigma to him, and a melancholy one. Two years ago the merchants told him that if they got supply of cheap labour, and could raise 100,000,0 001b5., they would not dread the competition of slave labour. They had the cheapest supply of labour that was ever known, and their prod uce was more t h an th e y expected. and yet they said th e y were ru i ne d b y the Bill 1846.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. Hunter, one the most eminent d ea l ers o f t h e M aur i t i us , said tha t coolie labour was hi g h er th an s l ave l a b our -41)st the total cost of a cooly, i nc l u d ing rat i ons , was 191., whilst the cost of a slave was on ly 41 . Th e M au ritius rape r• chants in London laid s t a t ements b e f ore t h e Committe e : which showed th a t th e p ro d uce o f a coo l y was two tons and 3-sths, that reduc e d th e ' cos t o f sugar t o 75- per cwt. Now the price of a s l ave i n C u b a was 1001, and the interest of money there twelve per cent. Making t fair allowance for the cost of wear and tear, and loss, and for the difference in the rations, that would make .th e cost of a slave 181. 1 le.; and he produced, according to t , the evidence laid before the C omm itt ee , three tons 01 sugar, which reduced the cost in Cuba to 6s. Old• per cwt. That made a difference of Is. Bd. in the cost of labour alone. But was there anything in that difference_ to justify a protection of 10 s . f u r w hich the people of this country were to pay?—(dear, hear.) They hsd no right to call on the British public to pay for protection till every improvement had been introduced into, the West Indies, and till they reduced the cost of production to the lowest amount.—(Hear.) He would show the West India planters that they were a wasteful set 'of manu facturers—that they did not produce so largely or ma nufacture so economically as they ought.—(Hear, hear.) And they ought to do both before they came to ask for protection from the people of this country.—(Hear.) In respect to Guiana, Dr. ',hears says that, by improved methods of cultivatic:4, the produce of Guiana might be increased 25 per cent. Lord Harris says that a large increase might take place in Trinidad under a better system. Mr. Ray says—" The hoe is still in general use, and it is with reluctance that the plough is used. The agents adopted an expensive mode of supplying their stock of cattle. Many of the local journals bore testimony of the same kind; for let it not •be supposed that public opinion in the colonies was all on the side of protection: The Berbice Gazette . and the Trinidad Spec tator spoke in reprobation of the bad mode of cultivation. adopted. The Morning Journal; of Jamaica, says, "We have too long persisted in the old humdrum system, and in the use of the hoe." It had been said that the Co lonial-office disallowed laws which the Colonial Legis latures passed. He challenged Gentlemen opposite to state one single good law which had been disallowed by the Secretary of State. Since 1843 the colonial assem blies had full liberty to pass any laws they pleased. But he had seen with regret, and not without indignation, that attempts were made, between 1885 and 1840, to bring back the negro who had escaped from the lash to the condition of a serf, by means of the ingenuity of the law. The Hon. Gentleman here quoted several Acts passed by the Legislature of St. Vincent's, Barbed*, and other islands, which subjected the negroes to im prisonment and the treadmill for slight offences. As to squatting, the evidence showed that very little of it existed in the West India Islands. With reference to emigration he wished to know what the West India gentlemen specifically meant by their cry for more labour ? Did they mean that this supply of labour was to be at the expense of the Government at home ? He advised the West India planters to concentrate their cultivation where necessary, ra ther than to diffuse it vaguely over large tracts. He did not, however, believe there was so much additional labour wanted as was represented, but rather a better, more skilful, and cheaper method of cultivation. Mauri tius was an example in point that abundance of labour was not the one thing needful, for Mauritius since 1843 had received 74,000 labourers, yet Mauritius was in a state of deep distress. The real cause of that distress was over-speculation, the indulgence on the.part of the planters in highly exaggerated expectations. There had been one remarkable omission in the whole discus sion on the subject: not a word had been heard from gentlemen opposite as to the interests of the consumers; yet surely the wants of the people here were not to be altogether neglected for the sake of a particular class in our colonies. In the slave-trade the only way in which it could effectually be put an end to would be, the rendering free labour cheaper than slave labour, and he believed this to be in the hands of the West India :planters themselves, if they would but heartily adopt and carry out the eternal principles of free trade, alike applicable to them as to all other classes of the commercial world. Mr. HAWES said he quite agreed with what had fallen from the Right lion. Member for Oxford Univer sity on the previous evening as to the condition of the labouring population of the West Indies being a❑ impor tant element in considering this question. If the Bill of 1846 had tended to deteriorate that condition he (Mr. Hawes) should have opposed it; but his firm be lief was that stripping West India sugar of all protec tion was the best way of insuring the welfare and hap piness of the great mass of the population. lie could not trace the evils complained of by the lion. Member for Bristol to the Bill of 1846, and therefore he felt bound to adhere to the policy it established which was tempo rary protection to the colonies during a period of tran sition to complete free trade. Why was it necessary now to modify that Bill? Two classes of reasons might be given. In the first place, the commercial distress prevailing throughout the empire had deprived the West Indians of a portion of the time which might be used in preparation for free trade. Again the introduction of a superior quality of foreign sugar which had not been anticipated had deprived them of some of the indulgence which they had been promised. But there was another consideration, and that was, that it was the concurrent opinion of all parties that the West Indies were in a state of great distress, and that therefore, relief of some kind was absolutely necessary. —(Hear.) In his opinion the plan of the Government o ffered a prospect of the most substantial relief, and it was for the West Indians themselves to consider whether their condition would be bettered by the conflict of par ties and opinions which its introduction had occasioned. Now, the Hon. Member for Bristol had asserted that the West Indians had never been in such a state of distress as at the present moment. If that were true, all former complaints must have been mere cries of " wolf," while the Present was the only foundation in truth. He would not do them the injustice to think so; he believed that there was some foundation in former complaints, and he was prepared to show that in former times and on for mer occasions their complaints far surpassed what was stated at the present time. In a report of the House of Assembly of Jamaica prepared in the year 1804, it was stated that although the abolition of the slave-trade might be an effectual it was not the sole means by which the West India islands might be ruined. The same object might be effected more gradually by encouraging the cul tivation of sugar in the East Indies. The report went on to state that every British merchant, holding securities on real estates was filing bills in chancery to foreclose, although when he had obtained his decree he hesitated to enforce it, because in such case he must undertake the plantation himself; which fatal experience told him would be ruin. Nobody, continued the report, would lend money on estates; in fact, so great was the distress that the reporters feared that a faithful detail would ap pear like a frightful caricature. Ile (Mr. Hawes) defied any one to sh sar such a state of distress from Lord Harris's dispatches.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. ROBINSON—That was during the war. Mr. HAVES—No; accounts of distress might be quoted extending from that period down to 1843. Lord G. BINTINCK said that his Hon. Friend Ahe Member for Droitwich had so fully given the history of the Committee over which ho had the honour to pre side, that he need not occupy the House at any length on that portion of the subject. The Right Hon. the Chan color of the Exchequer had in his speech taken every thing for granted, both as to the future production of our colonial sugar and our colonial ruin, and also as to 'he revenue to be thence derived ; but facts alone must he regarded, and the facts in no degree bore out the Right lion. Baronet's calculations. Nothing could be more exact than the inquiries which had been made by the Committee in the ♦iew to those estimates upon which they had founded their recommendations to Par liament ; and what had been the result of these calcula tions? Why, this, that upon the whole reriod of six years, ending in 1854, there would be a revenue of 1,338,5001. arising from the plan proposed by the Coal mittee, more than would be realised by the plan pro posed by the Government. The proposal of the Com mittee was to reduce the duty on colonial sugar, and though, of course, a portion of the benefit would go to our colonial planters, a considerable part of the revenue would then be levied out of the diminished profits of the slave owner, a result which every man impressed with a hatred of slavery must hail with gratification. There could be no clearer proof of the accuracy of the calculations upon which the Committee proceeded than the fact that when it was known out of doors that the Committee proposed to have a duty of 10s. on solo ' nial sugar, and to retain the duty of 20s. on foreign sugar, there was at once a fall of is. 6d. per cwt. on colonial, and a rise of Is. 6d. on foreign sugars in our markets, so that the relief to the West Indies would be screwed out of the pockets of the slaveholders. The Hon. Under-Secretary for the Colonies talked of the Committee having omitted to care for the consumer; whereas the Committee had shown themselves the true friends of the poor men here—the real supporters of cheap prices in sugar, by proposing those measures which would maintain the competition of colonial with foreign slave-grown sugar.—(Hear.), The Hon. Under- Secretary denied that the Act of 1846 had had anything to do with the ruin of the Mauritius, and had a memo morial or something of the kind to show that, in 1846, Mauritius was in deep distress. Why, only in July of last year the Hon. Gentleman himself made a grand point by citing Mauritius as the seat of high prosperity. —(Hear, hear.) And what said the dispatch of Gover nor Sir William Gomm of the 6th March, 1847 ? Why, that the balance of colonial revenue in the Mauritius over expenditure was, in 1845, 16,8161, and in 1846 had risen to 50,9891. ; and for the then current year Sir Wil liam had estimated the gross value of the colonial ex ports over imports at 479,4151. But this was on a cal culation of 271. per ton being realised by the merchant, making an aggregate profit of 600,0001.; whereas, in consequence of the depreciation of the value of sugar, occasioned by the introduction of free•labour sugar, under the Act of 1846, instead of a profit of 600,0001., there was a loss of 600,0001., and half as much more. If the Committee were chargeable with any omission at all from its recommendations, that omission had relation to the East Indies and Ceylon, and was wholly attribu table to the influence of the Government, which, by the medium of the lion. Member for Westbury, had entirely defeatod his (I, ,rd G. B , ntinek's) con , tant exer ion., and those or his friends in the Committee, to give due weight to the claims of these Eastern possessions.— (Hear, hear.) In Cuba, while the interest of the Eng- Mr. BERNAL—That document referred only to Jamaica. Mr. HA.WES begged the Hon. Member's pardon ; there were cases from several colonies of abandonment of estates and general complaints of ruin. Now all this had occurred before the first Sugar Bill, when Jamaica had a monopoly, and ho defied any one to show a simi lar state of things under free trade.—(Hear, bear.) He could show that from 1760 down to 1843 there had been a regular succession of complaints of immediately pend ing ruin. If the quantity of sugar imported from the West Indies from the year 1831 to 1841 and thence to 1847 were taken, a remarkable inference might be drawn. And if they took the first ten years, it would embrace a period of slavery, then of apprenticeship, and then of entirely free labour. The average annual im portation during that period was 171,800 tons. For the following seven years, commencing with 1841, when the production of Jamaica was reduced to its lowest point since 1831, the average annual importation was 127,32.3 tons ; the entire difference for the whole of the West Indies being only 44,477 tons. That was the amount of the whole annual decrease. But when it was recollected that the duties between the West India and East India sugar were equalised, and that there was an enormous increase of sugar in Mauritius, was it to be wondered that some diminution should have taken place? If he took the four or five years preceding the present, he found no decrease, but an enormous increase. 2,857,000 cwt.; the production was 2 , 453,000 cwt. ; in 1845, cwt.; in 1846, 2,152,000 cwt.; and in 1847, 3,022,000 cwt. This ,!id n. t ::how any i r“-•" 3 ''gn of Ow aba!:don moot ut the cultivation of sugar. Looking to Jamaica alone, the average production of the three years, 1840, 1841, and 1842, was 608,750 cwt., whilst the average of • *ea