The Sun. — London, England, 1835-08-18 00:00:00

his amendment on the third reading, which was ordered for next Monday. LORD LONDONDERRY gave notice that on Monday he should bring forward his motion on Spanish affairs. TAX ON NEWSPAPERS. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a meeting of the citizens of London and Westminster, praying for the Repeal of Stamp Duties on Newspapers. The petitioners ex pressed their surprise at the budget, and the proposal to reduce the duty on glass, and on licenses for gin shops, instead of removing that tax which prevented the salutary extension of political knowledge. MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. BERNAL and others broiight up the Slavery Com pensation Bill; also the Savings Banks' Regulation Bill; also the Small Debts Recovery Bill ; also the Scotch Reform in Parliament Bill ; also the Offences in Ireland Bill ; also the Consolidation of Government Offices in Ireland Bill ; also the abolition of Corporation Sinecures in Scotland. CORPORATION REFORM BILL. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the borough of Gateshead, in favour of the Corporation Reform Bill. The Duke of CLEVELAND supported the petition. The Marquis of WESTMINSTER presented a petition from the city of Chester to the same effect. His Lordship said the inhabitants called upon the Mayor of Chester to con vene a public meeting, who, in imitation of the unhappy Lord Mayor of London, refused, but with as little success, for the inhabitants met in spite of him, and the meeting was more numerous than it would have been had he not followed such an unfortunate example.--[hear.l The petition was signed by 2,000 persons. Lord ELLENBOROUGH moved that all papers relative to the Irish Church should be printed. Lord BROUGHAM presented petitions in favour of the Corporation Reform Bill from Devonport, Ress (Hereford), the freemen and citizens of Hereford, Alton ( Hants), South Moulton ( Suffolk), from 600 inhabitants of Kilbridge (York shire), from Carmarthen, from Totness (Devon), and from Sutton Coldfield. __ _ _ _ . Lord LYNDHURST, in reference to the last petition, had received a letter from a very respectable individual at Sutton Coldfield, stating that the only member of the Corpo ration whose name appeared in the petition was not present at the meeting at which it was agreed upon; and that so far from a majority having adopted the petition, no di vision at all took place ; indeed, that all the allegations in the petition were incorrect. This showed their Lordships the necessity of scrutinizing very closely the character of petitions of this nature.—( Cheers.) Lord BROUGHAM said that the moral which his Noble and Learned Friend had drawn from the letter he had re ceived was very good, namely, the caution that their Lord ships ought to exercise as to petitions ; and from the manner in which their Lordships had received it they seemed disposed to act upon the principle that King James the First, who was a great favourite, no doubt, with many of their Lordships, had laid down, namely, that it was always better to tlocide on hear ing only one side of the question ; because, when both sides were heard it puzzled one how to decide.—( A laugh.) He begged, however, on the side of the petition to ~ ;.11l their Lordships' attention to the fact, that the petitioners, by put ting their sig natures to the petition, had pledged themselves to the House for the truth of its contents; and this, he con ceived, went fur•her than a private letter received by his Noble and Learned Friend. It was clear that the letter al luded to a different meeting from that at which the petition was agreed upon. Lord LYNDHURST repeated that the letter particularly stated that the only member of the corporation who signed this petition was not at the meeting at all. _Lord' BROUGHAM—Let me see your letter. Lord L YND HURST— Yes, if you will let me have a copy of your petition. Lord BROUG HAM presented a petition also in favour of the Bill from Wenlock, Liskeard, and Leith. The Earl of RADNOR presented petitions in favour of the Bill from Ashton-under-Line and Andover. The Earl of W INCHIL SE A presented a petition from the freemen of the city of Lincoln, praying to have their rights and privileges protected, and also petitions against the Municipal Corporations Bill from the Mayor and Corpo ration of Tenby, and from the Corporation and inhabitants of Evesham. The Noble Earl said that he had another petition of a very different character to present to their Lordships. It was from the city of Dublin, and had been agreed upon at a public meeting held there. The petition had reference to a Gentleman who held an official situation in that city, and it prayed for an address to the Crown that a Commission might he issued to inquire into the grounds of the petitioner's com plaint. Although he felt it his duty to present the petition, he by no means concurred in the prayer for a Commission, be cause so long as the Courts of Justice were open, he depreca ted the issuing of Commissions upon such subjects. The Earl of D A RTMOUTH presented a petition from the inhabitants of the town of Ongly against the Municipal Corporations Bill. The Marquis of NORTHAMPTON presented a petition against the Bill, from some place, the name of which we could not hear. The Duke of CLEVEL AND presented a petition, nu merously signed, from the inhabitants and Corporation of Darlington, in favour of the Bill, and praying that their Lordships might pass it without delay, and without impair ing any of its essential provisions. With these two prayers it was impossible that their Lordships could now comply, be cause they had already by the course they had pursued, most improperly in his mind, caused great and useless delay at this advanced period of the session ; and, as to not impairing any of its essential provisions, although one-sixth part of the Bill had not as yet been gone through in Committee, their Lordship; had contrived to make alterations in it highly in jurious and detrimental, not only to the Bill, but to the country at large. He had the misfortune of having a seat in that House longer than any of their Lordships then pre sent, and during the whole of that time he had never - known more indecency, more impropriety, or more irregularity in their Lordships' proceedings than had occurred during the progress of this Bill. lie should refrain from making any observations upon the decision to which their Lordships had come, although he could not but feel how highly detrimental to the interests of the country and to the characters of re. spectable individuals, who had been involved, it was to hear such exparte evidence as that taken at their Lordships' bar, and without giving those honourable men who had been thus attacked an opportunity of exculpating themselves. It was with great surprise and son,e little indignation that lie heard a Noble Duke opposite hold out a threat of impeachment against the first Minister of the Crown, and also threaten to divide the House upon the question of going Committee on the Bill, neither of which threats, however, +lin Noble Duke thought proper to persevere in. The Noble Duke, also, had made a statement that he had voted against the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, against the Catholic Ra;ief Bill, and against the Parliamentary Reform Bill. He confessed that he heard those assertions from the Noble Duke with some astonishment, although, perhaps, he ought not to be astonished at the Noble Duke's opposition to the last of those measures, arising, as no doubt it did, from a feeling of sorrow, in which he (the Duke of Cleveland) might be supposed to have parti ciputecl, at being compelled to relinquish six or seven boroughs. For himself, however, he could say, that he felt no regret on this head, because he considered the measure to be right and for the general benefit of the country. He hoped and trusted —he besought, he implored—that his Noble Friend below him (Viscount Melbourne) would persevere in all the mea sures which he considered necessary for the benefit of the country, and which met with the country's approbation—mea sures which he was sorry to say that House had persevered in opposing in a manner detrimental to the public interests, and calculated to bring about a collision with the other House of Parliament. Tho Duke of NEWCASTLE did not think it worth his while to reply to the observations which had just fallen from the Noble Duke, and he should, therefore, merely allude to one curious resat It which the Noble Duke had made on the subject of boroughs. He could assure the House that he felt relieved from a great care since he had lost all borough influ. ence, and he only resisted their abolition purely upon principle. —( Hear, hear.) He could only say further that he had never profitted by his boroughs, nor did he owe his Dukedom to their influence.— (Tremendous cheering.) With this remark he should close his observations. The Duke of CLEVELAND rose, amidst loud cries of " Spoke, spoke." He merely wished to express a hope that the Noble Duke opposite would not conceive that he meant any thing personal in the observations he had made. No doubt the Noble Duke had acted from principle, and honestly ; but as for the insinuations that he (the Duke of Cleveland) got his Dukedom by his boroughs, he declared before that House, and before God and his country, that he derived no advantage from his promotion to the rank which he now held. He had never asked for any thing—he had never been benefitted any thing. The Marquis of L ANSDOWNE presented a petition from Devizes and Reigate, in favour of the Municipal Corporations Bill. Lord L YNDHURST presented petitions against the Bill from bankers, merchants, and inhabitants of Dudley, signed by 400 persons, each of whom attached his address and descrip tion. ; and from Chard, in Somersetshire. The Noble Lord also presented a petition from Great Yarmouth, praying that that town might not be included in the Bill. Lord \YHA RNCLIFFE presented a petition from the mayor and burgesses of York against the Bill. Viscount MELBOURNE presented petitions in favour of the Bill from Edinburgh, signed by 8,000 persons ; from Glasgow, Richmond, Dublin, Rochdale, Leith, Hithe, Blackburn, Taunton, Limerick, Lymington, Bolton, Cork, Teynmouth, Gainsborough, Melbourne, Bishop Stortford, Haverfordwest, Haddington, and a petition from 134 freemen of Liverpool, praying that their rights might be extinguished. —( A laugh.) Lord BROUGHAM had been requested from several of the places where these petitions came from to support their prayer. The Earl of H ADDINGTON, as regarded the Haddington petition, was instructed to say that there were eleven voted for it and eight against it. IMPRISONMENT FOR BEBT BILL. Lord BROUGHAM rose to move the first reading of a very important Bill that had been sent to their Lordships from the other House—he meant the Bill for abolishing imprisonment for debt. It was not his intention at that stage to enter into any discussion, but he should simply move that the Bill be read a first time. Lord LYNDHURST said that the Bill was one of the greatest importance, and was true, ay had been stated, that it was introduced into the other House by the Attorney-Ge neral at the commencement of the session, but it was impos sible that it - could be passed without having it referred to a Committee up stairs. Whatever :disposition he might have to support some of the provisions _of the measure, it would be utterly layseible at this late period of the session to give it , ‘ ,I •.(JE v C 4 l) W" that careful consideration which it required, unless their Lord ships should determine to sit six weeks longer. The Earl of II AREWOOD said that this Bill was one which required the deepest attention of their Lordships, for its provisions were most arbitrary and tyrannical, both as regarded the liberty of the person and the property of the subject. Lord BROITG HA AI said that the Noble Earl had ap pealed to the sensitive natures of their Lordships, by saying that the Bill would run down all landed interests, and he had invited their Lordships to consider it during the long vacation ; but he could assure their Lordships that the real object of the Bill was nothing like what the Noble Earl had stated. Lord A SHBURTON said that the Bill very deeply af fected the commercial interests of the country, and therefore their Lordships ought to examine it with the greatest care and attention. Lord BROUGHAM explained. The Bill was then understood to be read a first time. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table of the House an Order in Council declaring that adequate provisions had been made by the colony of Honduras to give effect to the Abolition of Slavery Bill. The Noble Marquis stated his intention to move to-morrow, if the House would permit him to do so, the second reading of the More Effectual Preven tion of Disturbances ( Ireland) Bill. A NOBLE LORD, whose name we could not learn, presented a petition from 115 of the inhabitants of Scarborough, in Yorkshire, against several clauses of the Municipal Corpora tions Bill. The Tea Duties Bill, and a Bill to prevent the publication of Lectures without consent, passed through Committee. On the Order of the Day having been rcad for going into Committee on THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS' BILL. The Earl of H ADDINGTON said that their Lordships must recollect that during this discussion dip Noble and Learned Lord opposite had, in a good-hum red tone, and with an air of courteous exultation, referred to the manner in which he carried, two years ago, the Scotch Burgh Bill through the House. He (the Earl of Haddington) believed that during the greater part of the Committee on that Bill, the Noble Earl near him, and the Noble Marquis below him, and himself, were the only three Peers who appeared to oppose that Bill. The Noble and Learned Lord en countered them, and achieved an easy triumph ; but he be lieved that during the whole course of that debate, the House never contained, taking both sides, more than thirty of their Lordships. The grounds upon which the Bill was opposed were shortly these :—lt was principally contended that his Majesty's Ministers had issued a Commission of Inquiry into the state and condition of the Scotch Corporations, as prepa ratory to legislation ; but during that session it appeared to his Majesty's Government, that, as far as the Scotch Corporations were concerned, it would be better to legislate first and to in quire afterwards, and consequently they issued a Commission of Inquiry. He (the Earl of Haddington), and those who acted with him, being old fashioned people, suggested to the Government that it would be rather more convenient to inquire first and to legislate afterwards. However, the Bill passed, and the Scotch corporations were now reaping all the benefits of that measure. The Commission of Inquiry was issued more than two years ago, and be believed that the Commis sioners had now made their Report, and e that that Report would furnish a strong example that in future it would be rather better for their Lordships to inquire before they acted. lie ought to state that many of the Scotch Corporations possessed very important patronage. The Corporation of Edinburgh ap pointed all the Clergy of the Established Church in Edin burgh. Three-fourths of the Professors of the University of Edinburgh were appointed by the same body. The COrpora tion of Glasgow also possessed very considerable patronage. The Commission appointed consisted of most respectable gen tlemen ; all of them Whigs, the greater part of them Whig lawyers at the Scotch Bar. He wished to see their Report, or the evidence on which it was founded, or both ; but that Re port, he understood, set forth that the powers, jurisdiction, and patronage vested by the Scotch Burgh Act in these annually and popularly-elected bodies was too extensive, and not safe in institutions over which the town council exercised so complete a controul. He therefore thought that it was extremely desir able that this document should be laid befoi e their Lordships; and he rose for the purpose of receiving from the Noble Vis count an official assurance that the Report had been made, and that it should forthwith be laid on the table of the House. Viscount MELBOURNE begged leave to state to their Lordships that the Report had undoubtedly been received. It was received about the Bth of the present month, and it would be laid on the table of the House as speedily as possible. Lord BROUGHAM thought he should be able to show the Noble Earl that he had been wrong in the charges he had brought against those who had introduced the Scotch Burghs Bill. It was said that the Report of the Commissioners would show that the House had taken an erroneous view of the sub ject. At one time it had boen considered fortunate to be a Scotchman ; now, if a man was a Scotch Commissioner all was right. A Scotch Commission was considered absolute perfection—its authority was without appeal, and the House was now called upon to say that it had done wrung because a Scotch Commission in its Report said that they ought to have done otherwise. He would only in addition say that he regret ted that this deference was confined to the Scotch and not ex tended to the English Commissioners. After an observation from a Noble LORD, whose name we could not learn— The Earl of ABERDEEN said a great feeling of disatis faction now prevailed in Scotland, with respect to the Church Commission—a dissatisfaction and discontent which was only beginning, and it was impossible to say where it would end. He hoped that the Report, to which his Noble Friend had alluded, would speedily be laid on the table—and, with res pect to the Church Commission, he hoped that the Noble Vis count would adept such a course, as would give satisfaction to the country. Viscount MELBOURNE was extremely desirous of doing all in his power to satisfy the country, and he greatly regret ted that dissatisfaction should prevail with respect to the Church Commission. But he thought that that discontent arose rather from the violence of feeling between the two parties in Scotland, than from any defect in the constitution of the Coynntission itself. The late Ministry, he conceived, had acted very imprudently in recommending any grant from the Throne. With respect to the Commissioners, he would say that they were not hostile to the Established Church of Scotland. No general expression of opinion in favour of the voluntary principle, ought to he sufficient to prevent a re-in from sitting on such a Commission as this. If he could adopt any means which would give satisfaction •••ithout im pairing the efficacy or altering the nature of the Commission, he could assure the flo:Fe he should ever be most willing to adopt them. The House then proceeded to the discussion of the Muni cipal Corporation Bill. On Clause 24 being put, . . . Lord L YND El URST rose and said that it was his inten tion to propose some amendments to this clause; but as those amendment were connected with each other, perhaps it might be more convenient to their Lordships if he stated the whole together, and took the discussion in that form, rather than take them individually, and in succession, which might very much tend to protract the debate. Before he proceeded to state the nature of the amendments which he was about to submit to their Lordships' consideration, he could not forbear adverting to an observation which had been made during the evening by a Noble Duke on the other side of the House. That Noble Duke had charged them (the Opposition) with having wasted time.—( Hear, hear.) Perhaps never, in the history of Parliament, had a more difficult question—ernbrac kg a. greater variety of details, or requiring more considera tion and caution—presented itself to the attention of their Lordships. It was now, he believed, fourteen days since the Bill had been proposed to be read a second time. Their Lordships were already far advanced in the Committee ; and, when he (Lord Lyndhurst) found from the votes of the other House that that House had been employed six weeks in the discussion of this measure, he must protest against the charge of the Noble Duke as a charge utterly destitute of foundation, and one which ought not to have been preferred until the Noble Duke had maturely considered whether it had any real foundation. The Noble Duke also charged them with havinc , made great and essential alterations in the Bill, which he seemed to consider wholly unjustifiable. He (Lord Lyndhurst) was not aware that any alterations had been made which affected the principle of the Bill ; he was not aware of any which, at least, had made any such alteration up to the present time. What was the nature of the amend ments proposed, and those which had been adopted ? In fact only three had been adopted, exclusive of matters of mere detail, which, of course, had not occupied the attention of the Noblo Duke. The first was an amendment only carry ing further the principle laid down by the Noble Viscount himself in this Bill—that relating to the property of freemen. The Noble Viscount's Bill protected the property of the free men up to a certain point. Those with whom he acted would protect it to the full extent to which it was entitled to pro tection.—( Hear, hear.) Was that any alteration at variance with the Bill in this respect ? Again, as to the second amend ment. The Noble Viscount had protected the elective fran chise of the freemen up to a certain point. This they (the Opposition) carried farther, for they would protect the rights of the freemen to the extent to which they were carried by the Reform Bill. Was this adopted on any principle at all incon sistent with the principle of the Bill as laid down by the Noble Viscount in its very frame and form? The only other sub stantial amendment was that which related to the qualification of the councillors. The Noble Viscount required a qualifica tion himself. The burgesses were required to be rate payers —they must be residents for three years—they must have paid their rates for three years; but he (Lord Lyndhurst) had thought some further qualification necessary, and in adopting his amendment, the House had done nothing inconsistent with the principles laid down by the Noble Viscount Thus much for the charges of delay, and the charge of having mutilated the Bill. And now he would address their Lordships with re spect to the amendments which he intended to propose. He would first state it was in reference to the governing body of Corporations that his amendments would be directed. What, he asked, according to the Bill, was the present shape of the governments of Corporations ? The members of Corporations were to be elected by the rate payers ; they were to hold office for three years ; and no qualifications were to be required. But their Lordships had thought that a qualification was necessary ; but still the precise nature of that qualification had not been determined. Now he asked in what way were these bodies of corporators to act? They were to be elected by the whole body of rate-payers, and for the period of three years. They would be required to give pledges to their con stituents as to the nature of their conduct. They would be obliged to render an account of the manner in which they had discharged their duties, and, looking always forward to the period of re-election, they would be obliged to flatter the prejudices and yield to the feelings of those by whom they were to be re-appointed. Their Lordships had seen so much of this of late, that they would not shut their eyes to the fact THE SUN, LONDON, TUVSDAY, AUGUST 18, 1835. that all who would be appointed under the new system, would act under the control of, and would be inevitably subservient to, the opinions and feelings, and political views of those by whom they were returned. When he had first entered into public life, he remembered the principles that were then laid down with respect to representative Governments. It had had been said, that representative Governments had all the advantages of democracies whilst they avoided all their vices ; that representation placed an interposition to arbitrary power, whilst it avoided the injustice by which democracy had been always actuated ; and, in short, representative Govern ments were to be adopted, because they established a complete system of freedom. The doctrine then had been that a repre sentative when once chosen was to act independently of the in structions of his constituents, and to offer his own free and un biased opinions upon all matters that came under his considera tion. But their Lordships had now lived to see directly the reverse of those principle carried into practice, and a representative was now considered only as the passive agent, the mere dele gate, of those who sent him to the House. Was it, then, local Governments of this description that their Lordships were going to erect ? and when their Lordships saw by whom the representatives were to be returned he might be excused - if he called to their Lordships' recollection the extraordinary power with which those representatives were to be invested. First, they were to have the entire controul and direction of all the funds of the Corporation, which, as their Lordships well knew, were in some instances most extensive. In the next place, they were to have the power of taxing the inha bitants far beyond that which at present was possessed by any body in this kingdom, except the two Houses of Parliament. In the third place, the body constituted, as he had described this body to be, was to have the free and entire controul and disposition of all the Church patronage of the boroughs, and which in some places, such as Bristol, for instance, extended as far as to eleven or twelve Church livings.—( Hear.) In addition to this they were to have the important power of licensing all public-houses within their jurisdiction. This was a power of a most extensive kind, followed by consequences of the greatest importance with reference to influence, power, and authority. In addition to this he called to their Lordships' recollection that they were to have the entire controul, direc tion, as well as the appointment, of the whole police of the borough. They were to manage the expense of it, and to dis pose of it as they thought proper. They had, moreover, the extraordinary power of selecting individuals to be presented to the Throne, and out of these alone could the magistracy be appointed, the Crown having no power to appoint a single magistrate unless previously nominated for election by this ex traordinary Town Council. Lastly, he called upon the House to recollect that the Councils were to give their nominees— persons whom they were to appoint without any qualification, without any inquiry, without any security or responsibility whatever—to such nominees were these Councils to give the charge of all the extensive charitable funds that belonged to the Corporations of this empire. Such were the extraordinary powers which were to be given to the bodies that were to be constituted under the present Bill. It was impossible to view such a Bill without feeling the deepest alarm at the conse quences it might produce. He had very much to regret that the Noble Viscount had not laid upon the table of the House the Report of the Commissioners which his Noble Friend on the back benches had adverted to. The House would have found in that Report such observations as to the boroughs of Scotland as would have led their Lordships to pause before they trusted to Town Councils thus elected such extraordinary, ex tensive, and dangerous powers. It would have been found that these Commissioners entirely, and without doubt, agree in one opinion as to the impropriety of corporations being in vested with ecclesiastical patronage. The Report doubted as to the propriety of corporations having anything to do with interfering with Universities, and as to whether they ought to be entrusted with many of those magisterial powers which had hitherto been entrusted to the corporations of that part of the kingdom. Until the Report of that Commission was laid on the table of the House he could not with absolute precision say what were the full nature and objects of the statements. He had, however, received from Glasgow an account from a gen tleman holding such a high situation in that city, a man of such observation, experience, and talent, that he could place the fullest reliance upon him—an account of the manner in which the new system had worked in that city. The statement was altogether so material that, with the permission of their Lordships, he would advert to some passages of the letter.— ( Here his Lordship read several passages from the letter. The writer said that the baneful effects of the want of a qualification in the councillors were severely felt at Glasgow, under the Scotch Burgh Reform Act, and he was anxious that the ease should be known before the cities of England should be sub jected to a similar infliction. Under the old system the ma gistrates were taken from the highest classes of the citi zens, and uniformly were the most wealthy and influential of the merchants and manufacturers. Under the new system the councils were elected of men who, upon oath, had been certified to be so poor that they were un able to contribute the smallest sum to the poor rates. Others had lately been bankrupts and insolvents, discharged by creditors, and the great majority of them were not of in fluence or authority, but were men distinguished in their local circles merely by the violence of their political principles. The acts of such Councils were what might have been supposed. Having neither skill nor conduct, they dealt with the borough property in a most improper manner, turning out the old civil officers, who held their places ad titans ant culpam. They had attempted to exclude the Established Clergy from their share in the management of the estates of the Church, which they derived from the will of the founders, and which they had exercised for 190 years. There was an endless catalogue of mischievous measures which had ensued, and been the conse quences of the ignorance and inexperience of the Councils ; and the respectable parties were so dissatisfied that they could not be brought to take a share in any proceedings. There was every prospect of the Council falling into utter contempt. The borough funds had suffered severe dilapidations, and they had lately resorted to a poll tax, in order to supply what the Coun cils had dissipated. Under the old Councils there had been a surplus of revenue.) He (Lord Lyndhurst) was not at liberty to state to the House the authority from which lie derived his information, but he would willingly communicate to his Noble and Learned Friend, or to any Noble Lord on the other side of the House, the name of the writer. The question came to this— of what composition were these Councils? Did their Lordships think that they could safely trust to such bodies the management of the affairs of the cities and boroughs—to a society of men elected every three years by the rate-payers ? Did their Lordships think that these councils were so constituted as to be liable to fall under control and subserviency to the electors, and that they ought to have intrusted to them such great and extensive powers. They ought to have some principles of steadiness, and net be a body liable to waver from day to day, and hour to hour, but to be men able to act indepen dently, according to the sound dictates of their own judgment, uninfluenced by any body whatever. A certain portion of these councils ought to consist, not of persons elected every three years, but elected for life. The proportion, he should say, should be one-fourth of the whole, which he deemed as moderate a proportion as could be proposed. In saying this he was following the ideal model of those who had set up a theory, and contended that the present close corporations were formerly open bodies, and that some of the members were elected for life. More than this, he was following the great example of the corporation of London. The corpo ration of London was thus composed. The Common Coun cil was elected from year to year. The Aldermen, who formed part of the Common Couucil, held office for life. The Lord Mayor, as every body knew, was elected annu ally. This he took as a model for the amendments which he proposed. In proposing this amendment, he had flattered himself (he hoped it was not flattery) that he should meet with the support of his Noble and Learned Friend opposite. Lord BROUGHAM—No, no, net with respect to the Common Councils, at least.—( A laugh.) Lord L YNDHURST—He was sorry that his expectation should be so immediately disappointed. He had hoped that it would receive the approbation of his Noble and Learned Friend. Well knowing how powerful he was in a bad cause, and how irresistible in a good one, he had hoped that his No ble and Learned Friend would not have opposed him, merely for the sake of swelling his own importance, especially as he ( Lord Lyndhurst) had taken his views from his Noble and Learned Friend's own Bill. In that Bill it was enacted that each Alderman should hold his office during his natural life. The next provision was that the Mayor, and the Aldermen thus elected for life, should form part of the Common Council. —(Hear, hear.) In his amendments he had taken the precise words of his Noble Friend. He had studied the history of the Bill which his Noble and Learned Friend had introduced, and he found that it had undergone the revision of the Noble Lord ( Althorp), who had at that time taken the lead in the House of Commons. It had received the sanction of the Go vernment, and, having looked at the Bill and studied every part of it, he had flattered himself that he should have received the spirited support and sanction of his Noble and Learned Friend to the amendments which he now proposed, as they merely went to assimilate the Bill now before the House in its most material parts to the Bill which had been before intro duced.—(Hear, hear.) He had adverted to the mirror that reflected the speeches of past times, and he had adverted to other authorities, in order to ascertain whether, when the former Bill had been submitted to Parliament, anything like doubt had fallen from his Noble and Learned Friend as tg the propriety of exacting qualificationi. He had found no aces of any such doubt. So far from doubt, his Noble and Learned Friend had considered the election of aldermen for life to be preferable to any other mode of election. He begged their Lordships to recollect that the object of the preceding Bill was to give corporations to large towns, which at present did not possess any ; but it had to deal with no existing right—the application of it was open, direct, and simple. The present Bill disturbed the rights of persons who had been in undis puted possession of them for ages. The amendment, he sub mitted, was that three-fourths of the common councilmen should be elected annually, whilst the remaining one-fourth should hold office for life, whether under the name of aldermen or of capital burgesses. This was his first amendment. He proposed that those who now filled these life offices should be continued in them. This he held to be only an act of justice. These men possessed their offices under a charter from the Crown ; they were not merely franchises, but in many in stances they were connected with the beneficial enjoyment of property to a large extent. There was no law by which they could be deprived of their rights unless they had committed some fault, which was not even alleged against them. It was the principle of the Constitution that no man should be dis possessed of his freehold except by judgment of his peers or by the law of the land. The Noble Viscount had struck out of his Bill the charge of abuse and of neglect of privilege. No such charge existed in the Report of the Commissioners, or if it did it was totally unsupported by the evidence._ (Cheers.) Their Lordships had examined thirty cases at their bar, and the evidence showed that there was not one in stance of any criminal neglect in the performance of duty. The witnesses proved that the duty had been faithfully, well, and honourably performed, and to the satisfaction of the inha bitants of each borough ; and why were the mayor and alder men to be stripped of their rights, which they held under the sanction of the law of the land ? Why were they to be turned out of their freeholds? He had already stated the amend ment, and he deemed that the property which was now held for life should be continued for life to the same parties. It was not necessary at this moment to name the precise terms of his motion ; but it was necessary that the point of the case should be raised, and at another period he should have the opportu nity of stating the precise terms of his motion, the substance of which he had sufficiently explained. He would further observe, that at present the number of aldermen holding their places for life was different in different corporations. Where the number of any corporation was equal to what had existed before, he should propose no alteration. If the number fell short, the council by election should make up the deficiency. If the number were too great they must go as near the mark as they could. Lord BROUGHAM agreed with his Noble Friend, that the particular form of words—the shape of the proposition, which brought them to discuss the vote upon this question, was a matter of mighty little importance, because the ques tion itself in its substance, in the aspect with which it saluted the friends of the Bill, in its bearing upon the whole of the measure—in its tendency to the success and to the working of this Bill, appeared to him to be of unspeakable importance. He did not think it was possible by any language to exagge rate the effects of this alteration. Well might his Noble and Learned Friend preface his observations in answer to the re marks of the Noble Duke behind him (Lord Brougham), by stating that hitherto the alterations he had introduced had made no inroad upon the principle of the Bill. Inroads, like every thing else, were comparative, and that which brought the invader three days' march within the frontiers of the in vaded country, was no inroad at all compared with that which brought his force into the heart of the country, and made him possessed of the capital and of the citadel itself.—( Cheers.) He called those former amendments inroads the other night, because they infringed upon the integrity of the measure— because they no longer left the measure pure, free, and in its original aspect. He called them inroads, as he should speak of a three-days' march of an enemy within the terri tories of the country. To that extent he should say that that country was not free; and he should call upon it to arouse its energies, for the purpose of expelling the invader. But if afterwards, in its progress, that invading force should have devastated and depopulated the land, and have planted its standard in the very heart of the capital itself, he should then look back at the three days' march as no inroad at all, and should wish to heaven that that was the only ca lamity that had befallen the country. So now, notwith standing the feelings he had experienced on the amend ments introduced last Thursday and Friday—notwithstand ing the pangs he felt at seeing this measure shorn of its fair proportions—notwithstanding those alterations which they had been told was only the working out of the principles of this Bill, especially the introduction of that notable amend ment, which was then introduced fur the first time, in the le gislative history of this country—tile principle that not only was wealth the measure and standard of a man's qualification to do anything, but that unless he was not only rich, but of the richest class—not only possessed of a minimum of wealth, but of a maximum--unless he belonged to the best, to the richest, to the aristocratic, to the oligarchical class of the Cor poration—he should not be eligible to manage any of the af fairs of his fellow-citizens ! This, too, was called only work ing out a little further the qualification which the Bill of his Noble Friend (Lord Nlelbour.le) proposed, namely—that per sons paying 3d. or 6d. towards the poor-rates should be quali fied to act as burgesses. He presumed that few persons who regarded the original qualification in the Bill were quite pre pared to see this other qualification grafted upon it ; and which had grafted, at the same time, he would venture to say, one of the most poisonous, one of the most alien, one of the most hostile, one of the most inevitable and irreconci lable blemishes upon the tree of the British constitution.— ( Cheers.) But bad as that was—bad as he thought it as an inroad upon this measure, yet now, after having heard his Noble and Learned Friend's present proposition, he looked back upon that inroad with a sort of envy and regret—a regret that the time of Thursday and Friday, when that was the only alteration and mutilation of the Bill, should have been lost in discussing it. "Do not let us shut our eyes to the fact, or disguise it from ourselves—the Bill is gone—( Loud cheers) — the Bill is gone if this principle is introduced." I know your Lordships will say, " So much the better." A NOBLE LORD (on the Opposition benches, whose name we could not learn) said—" Not at all." Lord BROUGHAM—Not at all 1 Perhaps not at all to my Noble Friend ; but my Noble Friend is not all your Lord ships on the other side. There are other Noble Lords to whom peradventure I might have referred myself. I believe that a considerable majority of your Lordships will be prepared to answer—" So much the better that the Bill should be lost ;" for when so many of you entered into the Committee of this Bill with an avowed, a recognised, and openly pronounced hos tility to its principle, and when I know that others of you were with the utmost difficulty restrained from throwing it out on the second reading altogether, God wot we had little to expect from going into this Committee, except that of a slower death, and after the endurance of more mutilation. For after the lopping off first a twig, in order to try the operation, then a branch, to see how it would take elsewhere, you next severed the bough, and then you attacked the trunk of the tree itself; while lice to-night my Learned Friend comes and lays the axe at the root.—(Cheers.) The Noble and Learned Lord pro ceeded to say, that their Lordships had fulfilled all the worst anticipations he had formed. Their Lordships would recol lect, that on the motion for going into Committee, he stated that he saw no good to result from it ; and that the only ques tion was between those who voted conscientiously and openly against the Bill—like the Noble Duke (Newcastle), who, in his straightforward course, was for throwing it out at once, and those who adopted another course not so intelligible, and he must say a more tortuous one—that of going into Committee to consider the details, when they were against the whole and every part of the measure.—( Hear, hear.) He thought, therefore, lie had a right to- say that his anticipations were not chimerical, or altogether groundless. But now it was his duty, painful as was the task, and hopeless as it was likely to be, but which he undertook for the sake of discharg ing his conscience and his duty to the country, to enter a little into the arguments, and advert to the various constitutional points which his Noble and Learned Friend had advanced. His Noble and Learned Friend had gone back to the very origin of a representative Government. He had carried there hack to the period of the French Revolution—a period which he appeared to love to dwell upon, as being the one when he entered into political life, as all men liked to look back upon their earlier days. He (Lord Broeeham) would not go so far back, but he thought he could go quite far enough to meet the arguments of his Noble and Learned Friend. He had said that the great evil of the democratic branch of the Con stitution was its fluctuating nature, its love of injustice, or at least thit proneness to injustice which it was said to be dis posed towards ; and it was imagined that these defects of the democratic branch were to be remedied by way of counter agents, existing in the representative principle ; but that the representative principle was only carried out upon the ground of him that was chosen by anybody being held to be—holding himself to be—and demeaning himself as if he really felt he was— not the deputy acting under the instructions of his con stituent4but the party chosen to consult for the good of the whole and exercising therein a free, independent and unbiassed ja:lgment. Having stated what he thought to be the representa tive principle, his Noble and Learned Friend went on to say that that principle in these our times, had suffered a complete change, for that the representatives now no longer held them selves to be at liberty to exercise their own free and unfettered judgments, but that they all acted under pledges, and were fettered by the instructions of their constituents. " I am yet to learn (said Lord Brougham) that that is now the duty of a Representative. I have yet to learn that that is held 11 the Representatives of the present day to be their duty.— (Cheers.) I know, on the contrary, that the Members of the other House of Parliament who,- I suppose, will be admitted to be the Representatives of the people in a certain sense, though not in the sense in which my Noble and Learned Friend regarded the rotten borough P ar li amen t s o f 1788, 1789, and 1790, when the Members were the Representatives either of the borough patrons or the borough corporations, or the money paid by the Members themselves; but I say I know that the Members of the present House of Commons act upon a very different principle from that described by my Noble and Learned Friend. You may here and there find instances of men pledging themselves and refusing to exercise that li berty which a Representative, in order to do his duty faithfully or honourably to himself, or usefully to his country, must ex ercise.—( Hear, hear.) I give that as my opinion.—(Hear.) I have always held that opinion. A near connection of mine sacrificed his seat in Parliament because be would not submit to pledges, nor submit to be fettered in the free exercise of his judgment; and yet that individual to whom I am advert ing, so far from differing from his former constituents, agreed with them on every important political_ question on which he could possibly be called upon to give a pledge." He main tained that the instances in which pledges had been tendered and agreed to formed the exception, and not the rule. He rejected, therefore, at once, entirely, and without qualification, the proposition that the representatives of the people in Par liament, under the Reform Bill, had changed their character or lowered their tone.—( Hear.) Before he left this part of the subject, there were one or two other observations he wished to make. According to his Noble and Learned Friend, the fetters now imposed upon Members of Parliament in the shape of pledges to their constituents were a novel invention, until this time wholly unheard-of and unknown. Before the year 1832 there was no such thing as a pledge, no such thing as a fetter imposed upon the free will of the representative—the House of Commons was composed of nothing but honest, upright, intelligent, statesmanlike men--(Hear, hear)—men f ree ly elected, freely executing the mission for which they were sent to Parliament, who regarded nothing but the common weal, were careful of nothing but the common in terest, and represented not the Noble Duke, or Earl, or Baron, who gave them their seats, but the interests of England at large.--(Hear, hear.) There was no understand ing between the nominee and the representative as to the votes that were to be given on certain questions—( Hear, hear, hear)—no little carving out f rom t h e wide realm ' of senatorial liberty some small corners on which the nominee was not to set his unhallowed foot—(Cheers)—no little p i ece of ground over which the sole of his foot was never to pass—( Renewed cheering)—abore all, there was no such thing as a representative who was told how he was to vote, not on one occasion, or on two occasions, but on all great questions for a whole session —(Cheers)—no such thing as a man going to a certain house day by day to be told bow he was to vote, under penalty of being compelled to accept the not very enviable and seldom sought-for office of steward of the Chiltern Hundreds—( Great cheering and laughter)—no such things as these were ever beard of before 1832, that fatal year of reform, which forged the chains of the repre untative body, abolished their discretion, left them no longer to exercise the uncontrolled power of consulting for the public good, but bound everlastingly to the will of somewhere abDut 30,000 constituents, a body of men who never in the history of Parliament had been bound before, except by their own notions of what was right and proper for the general welfare. —(Cheers.) Before that fatal period there was no such thing as a Peer returning eleven or twelve Members to the House of Commons, and never for a moment trusting them out of his sight ;—he, being capricious in his own proper nature, and a great martinet in the evolutions he made his men perform—rot trusting them for half an hour together, but regu larly taking his place under the gallery of the House of Com mons—directing them according to the course the debate might take, to make now a flank movement to the left —anon, an echallon movement in the opposite direction—half to go one way, half another way, and finally, perhaps, both halves to leave the House altogether, and, in the emphatic phrase of those times, to go down in a body to shoot larks at Dunstable.—( Cheer ing and laughter.) " I say this," said the Noble and Learned Lord, turning round, " with the greatest respect to my Noble Friend (the Duke of Cleveland) who sits behind me.—( Re newed cheering and laughter.) Ah, now you think you have got the best jest of the evening —you think it is my Noble Friend I have all along been alluding to. But you are mis taken : I was not alluding to my Noble Friend ; but to one widely differing from him—a noble predecessor of his, it is true, but one with whom my Noble Friend has no characteris tics in common." The Noble and Learned Lord proceeded to observe, that it was a little too much, then, for his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst) to refer to the year 1832 as the period at which this total change in the feelings and conduct of the representatives had been introduced—as if no such thing as a bond or fetter had ever been imposed upon them before.—(Hear, hear.) He entirely agreed with his Noble and Learned Friend as to what the duties of a repre sentative were, and he believed that those duties were as well, as honestly, and as honourably performed, now that the members of the House of Commons had thousands of con stituents to represent, as they were when they were sent up as the nominees of the old proprietors of boroughs.—( Hear, bear.) Yet the whole of his Noble and Learned Friend's •proposition was grounded on the assumption, that men popu- lar y elected were the mere puppets or tools of those who choose them, and not the real representatives of the interests of the country. That was the only ground on which his Noble and Learned Friend rested his proposition ; and it was because he (Lord Brougham) thought it unfounded in fact, because he thought that the popularly elected might safely be trusted to represent the interests of those who chose them, that he should give to that proposition his decided and most unqua lified opposition. If, indeed, his Noble and Learned Friend's proposition were once admitted, it would go at once to abolish the representative principle in the other House of Parliament. He could not conceive an argument which applied to the elec tion of representatives of municipal interests, which would nct with the same force be applicable to the election of the repre sentatives who sat in Parliament. He was satisfied that the people of this country might safely be trusted with the manage ment of their own affairs. If he thought otherwise, he would never, for one moment, stand forward as the advocate of such a measure as that they had then before them.---( Hear.) His Noble and Learned Friend, alluding to a Bill which he (Lord Brougham) had introduced into that House two. years ago, and in which it was proposed that men once chosen Alder men should be Aldermen for life, expressed great surprize and astonishment to find that he (Lord Brougham) would not ou this occasion come forward to second his proposition for making at least a portion of the Town Council Town Coun cillors for life. In the first place, his Noble and Learned Friend should recollect that there was a wide difference be- tween the functions to be performed by Town Councillors, and those to be performed by Aldermen. Town Councillors were chosen simply to defend the interests of the borough, and to watch over the expenditure of the borough funds. Al dermen, on the other hand, were not the taxers—not the guardians of the common purse—but were filling a judicial situation, tfd assisting in the administration of justice. —( Hear, hear.) Because the Alderman was elected for life, therefore it by no means followed that the Town Councillor should hold the office for the like period. But his Noble and Learned Friend had no right to endeavour to bind him to the letter of the Bill of 1833, because that measure was, in fact, nothing more than a sketch. It was not brought forward as a per fect measure, but merely as a skeleton, which should lie on the table of the House until further inquiry and greater expe rience should teach them how, in the best manner, to fill up its different parts. He was pledged to nothing that that Bill contained. But, even supposing that he had expressly de clared at the time that such or such a provision was necessary, if, subsequently, a more minute examination of the subject taught him to believe that his former opinion was erroneous, he would rather (though even at the eleventh hour) do what, he considered to be right—and let fools say " Why do you so ?"—than obstinately adhere to an opinion which be found to be wrong, and induce wise men to pity him. In the next place, his Noble and Learned Friend stated that the Scotch Commissioners, after instituting an inquiry into the subject, found that the Scotch Corporation Reform Bill did not work well. This his Noble and Learned Friend asserted upon the strength of a letter lie had received from a high authority in that part of the country ; but surely his Noble and Learned Friend must have forgotten that a petition in favour of the Bill, signed by 30,000 persons, had been sent up from Glas gow. He would place that petition against the letter alluded to by his Noble and Learned Friend. Besides he (Lord Brougham) had had a very extensive communication with Scotland upon the subject, and up to this moment he had never heard one syllable or whisper of complaint against the measure.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the exercise of Church patronage, he must say that he thought his Noble and Learned Friend's fears upon that point were wholly ground less. How was that patronage to be exercised except by the governing body of the Corporations, and who would say that a governing body, freely elected, would not exercise it as honestly and properly as those which were self-elected ? With respect to the administration of the funds of charitable es tates, he was disposed to admit, that when the governing body was popularly chosen, and no check imposed on the qualifica tion of the constituency, there might be a reason for having an effective check; and he had no objection that a control should be provided much more effectual than that which the Court of Chancery at present provided. As to the general propo sition of his Noble and Learned Friend, that one-fourth cf the representative body should be chosen for life, he must say that he could not command language strong enough to ex press, not only his opposition, but his utter aversion and dis gust of it. If it were once acceded to, it would open the door to all the worst evils of the existing system. He looked upon this Bill as in their Lordships' hands for its salvation or destruction. By the alterations already made it was all but destroyed. The amendment before their Lordships, if carried, would, he feared, be utterly fatal to the measure. He re garded the amendment itself as utterly inconsistent with the principle of the measure into which it was proposed to intro duce it, and tending in practice to render it nugatory. By foisting in aldertnen for life, the self-elective principle over laid every other, and was calculated in the working of the measure and in the fulness of time to restore every borough to its state of pristine rottenness. The vigour and purity of principle which, in other respects, would be introduced into the government of corporations by the measure, would he paralysed by the baneful self-elective provision. If their Lord ships should adopt the amendm ,, ut of his Noble and Learned Friend, they would send forth a mockery, a mere shadow under the pretence of the substance of reformation, tainting the whole mass with rottenness, and disappointing, wofully disappointing the universal, the sanguine, the ardent, and un questionably the just expectations of the people of England. Lord WH ARNC I, IFFE expressed surprise that in the Noble and Learned Lord's speech there had been so little ar gument. He must say that he thought that Noble Lords on his side of the House had a right to adopt and stand by a prin ciple embodied in a Bill laid upon their table with due gravity, and, after due deliberation, by the Lord High Chancellor— and yet that was all that himself and his friends were conten ding for with the Noble and Learned Lord who had just sat down. The Noble and Learned Lord had held up the House of Commons as an instance of the excellent principle of the Constitution. With submission, he begged to observe that the House of Commons, elected directly by the people, and directly expressing the popular will, was controlled (if that was not using too strong a term) by the House of Lords. It was in this manner that the democratic principle of the Con stitution was restrained from absorbing too large a share in the legislation and government of the country. For similar pur poses it was now proposed to add a non-elective body to the Town Councils. He most sincerely believed that the intro duction of these few Members for life would enable the Bill to work well, which it otherwise would not do, It would be ab solutely necessary to take some precaution against the Town Councils, under this Bill, becoming mere political engines, as was the case, for the most part, with the Common Council of the city of London. He was quite ready to concede that Corporations should no longer be those exclusive bodies in which popular opinion had no sway. Upon that point he was willing to make the fullest concession, but he thought the best mode of rendering the alter a tion effective, would be by the provision now introduced by his Noble and Learned Friend. To send the measure forth without such corrective, would be to strike a blow at the very root of the Aristocracy, by giving the entire power in the Corporations to the democracy.— ( Hear.) He could see no harm in the amendment, which was calculated merely to introduce into the Constitution of the Town Councils, a few persons, as life Members, who had already been elected for that term by virtue of a Charter from the Crown. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, he believed it was essen- tial to the public interests that a Bill for the reform of Cor porations should pass that House. He found no fault with the bodies who had heretofore exercised the corporate functions, but he thought there was a defect in the appointment by the Crown of the governing bodies of towns, which required the correcting hand of that House to remedy. He was quite sure the Noble Viscount opposite (Viscount Melbourne) had no other object in view in the measure before the House than the good and quiet government of the different towns to which it referred. He (Lord Ellenborough) having the same object in view, was desirous of seeing his Noble and Learned Friend's amendment form part of the Bill. He did not believe in all the exaggerated tales narrated in that House and elsewhere as to the excitement under which the first elections would take place. But undoubtedly there would be some excitement caused by the bringing into action simultaneously throughout the country a new system. Upon that account alone he thought it would be advisable to retain some of the old bodies as a check and control upon the new. It was apprehended that at first tranquil and moderate men would not present themselves as candidates for the new office. If this apprehension were well founded, then they should be the more desirous to retain a few conspicuous for those qualities. It would, he thought, be un just and impolitic to dismiss the old members of Corporations throughout the country with a brand upon their characters. They had done no wrong—they had not been condemned. A great authority in such ;natters had told them that they ought to " reform without bravery of power, times, and perso Let them rather seek to make this measure one of ger. conciliation, so that the new bodies to be formed under it, 4 stead of viewing with irritation and alarm those of their v i „ leagues who belonged to the old system, should rather Pin r the endeavour to give what all so much desired, viz., a hap jo social state to the country. Looking to futurity rather 4 to the present, and hoping for the permanent well-working the Bill, he earnestly conjured their Lordships and his Maj.eit7.lo Ministers to give their best and their impartial consid,sratto?‘ the measure upon their table._( General cries of Quosttobile Lord MELBOURNE began by observing, that his' -°,4 and Leatned Friend (Lord Brougham) had so ably 1,7 0ra 51 fully discussed the subject under consideration, that he 11. Melbourne) had but little left to say upon it. After the . t h e est consideration that he could give to the amendment of • be Noble and Learned Lord, he was bound to declare that: could not regard it but as seriously injurious, if not eat' . 0: t fatal, to the Bill.—( Cheers.) The amendment would do 1 .., it of that character of popularity which was its best re: % ) ,D: e mendation to the country. It was calculate,4 to impede: march of the measure, and clog every object which n' e , framers of it had in view. What these objects were ha d be p already well described to their Lordships, and also the e ner in which they would be interfered with by ;le annul s ° , 4 1 provision which it was the purport of the Noble and Lear nip Lord's amendment to introduce. He could not hell ) r ett marking that there was a singular discrepanc he,t w io t the arguments of the two Noble Lords who ha" bed spoken, and the Noble and Learned Lord who was' the, 1 ;4 thor of the amendment. The Noble and Learned L eraniil, spoken in a spirit of the utmost hostility against tht 0 describing in the most glowing colours the degradation . or all those principles of the representative system which were: cherished in the days of his youth in favour of more acr e cratic and dangerous sentiments, treating the Bill h ef°r i e their Lordships as the offspring of the chauge. The Wis, e be force of his argument lay in pointing out the dangers of „ times at which they had arrived, when it became neccol'eli to give way to the prejudices and submit to the wildest ta n° and caprices of the governed. The present Bill he protegs . to regard as an emanation from this altered spirit of the 01313 His hostility to the Bill, and to all the prin c iples upon n bi t e i, it was founded, was conspicuous in ev er y a rgume nt and soll n • e ment of his speech. Ile stigmatiz e d th e meas ure as brought forward with the most reckless haste, crude, and considerate in its provisions. Now, if the Noble an d Lear Lord believed all this of the measure, lie ought to have rn el ; ( r i s , , its rejection altogether.—( Cheers.) Oth e r N o b) e b however, and especially the two who had just spoken, althou s. supporting the amendment, were clearly sensible of tine ne e d sity of passing such a measure as the present. But if S t, e-- -t were sincere in their advocacy of the measure, how ea gie d i j o that all the amendments upon the Bill were drawn r p y ) unfriendly hand of the Noble and Learned Lord.—(Che e— t ° The Noble and Learned Lord's amend m ents of course we n t the root and foundation of the measure. The Bill itself The posed that the governing bodies should be purely electil e. amendment proposed the introduction of a certain nursiber4 members for life. Was not this a complete anomaly ? tory, he knew, would furnish a precedent for almost everlih' ° 'l but for such a pro H position it offered no example. f Lord LYNDURST observed that the Corporation pr o City of London was a case in point : the Aldermen /v. elected for life, the Common Councilmen were not. e a Lord MELBOURNE said that the Courts of Akler - .„ 0 0 and Common Council were sep ara t e counts; his observ e s , ' " applied to the proposal to constitute one body—partly ot nually elective, and partly of mem b ers f or lif e . The effe ° e o maintaining the existing aldermen must be to stamp the l l o t system with the unpopularity of th e old. C o n s idering t o , they were making a great change in the municipal g e/e alf, ment of all these towns—it did not appear to him, undoubt e k any injustice to remove these p ersons f rom th e s it ua tions S' e if occupied at present, to which situations in all probability' , they deserved it, they would be again elected. At the time lie thought that they would deprive the Bill of a PLo portion of its advantage and its gra ce , if th e y f o rced t t,r o o these towns reluctantly, and by force of l aw , i n di v iduals s v ro they would not otherwise have chosen.—(Clwers.) FortPeet reasons he opposed the amendments of the Noble and Lea r° Lord. osi The Duke of WELLINGT.ON—The Noble Viscoun t • o f much mistaken if he supposed there was any differenc e j, opinion between his N o bl e an d L earne d F r i en d (L o rd no, burst) and other Noble L or d s ac ti ng on t h a t s id e o f the Il e ebe if who, he could a ssure th e N o bl e Vi scount, b e d givenAol full concurrence an d su pp ort to t h e amen d ments h e had „res the honour of proposing. Il e h a d p ropose d t h ese mess the to the House, because, b e i ng a di st i ngu i s h e d mem ber 01 to . learned profession, and the one most distinguished for his the quence in that House, he was the person best qutalified forder task.—( Hear, hear.) The N o bl e Vi scount rea lly inias s Lei stood those who had spoken on th e ques ti on , if h e suPr,.,o4 that they did not all agree with hi s N o bl e and LeVr e l , Friend. The conclusion a t w hi c h h e ( t h e D u k e of tit lington) had arrived from readi ng th e R e p orts w as, the to would be absolutely impossible to frame upon their Bill in the Reform of the Municipal Corporations.---(s rd A Bill, however, had been introduced, and he had e'r e- ar y stated more than once, and to that Bill, unless it were C - 1 4 siderably altered, he could not consent. The Noble t s j Learned Lord who had just spoken with his usual ability' °, 16 drawn a parallel between the House of Commons and ` O4 assemblies which would be constituted by the Bill. N° w de , difference was, that the town councils would be far more di mocratical, being in f ac t annua ll y e l ected, and conneclt e n ° o l3 more liable to the cont ro l o f t h e const i tuents — t h at t hey " - o f exercise powers beyond those vested in any assembly in ;of part of the world—and that th e y wou ld h ave t h e pcov e 'ots imposing what rates they chos e , an d i ncurr i ng w h a t eic,P c ' t bs they pleased, on the mere allegation that they did so W h o benefit of the people. In ever y o th er A c t h e h a d seen.t o p was a limitatiori to the power of taxation entrusted to a larg e but in the present there w as none w h a t ever . In ale rt; i et towns the Corporations had a g re at amoun t o f prop ear their disposal, and it was ab so l u t e ly necessar y th a t the' L e y bers of the Corporations should be men of intelligence, Cu" tion, and station. After a few words in reply from Lord LYNDHUR The House divided— For the amendment Against the amendment tided -44 Majority in favour of th e amendramot The clauses proposed by Lord Ly n dh urs t were then i to the Bill. Clauses from 27 to 33 were then, after several '''' amendments, agreed to. _ The Huse — then resud. The Wills Execution, me Executors, and Prisoners' Def enCe Bills were referred to a Select Committee. Adjourned at a quarter past Twelve o'clock. , A a lit° (ADVERTISEMENT. 2- 1 1. COX SAVORY, Goius &c., 47, Cornhill, Lon on, informs the Public, that he„, / h tile considerable variety of SECOND-HAND GOLD WATul a ve any of which he offers at EIGHT GUINEAS each. They ~tir all been carefully overlooked, a n d are warrant e d.—Watches chased in exchange. 1 0 HE T JE are ready t ( for the sam, S RELLS, been divide. Ordnance thy previou willi ng Catalo, to O ffice, in P be r, the Angus ~''--~. T H E' _.._ OF It h Power, and stl; of mainediat maybe had c 0, Lanea s t et AL/i. C Prie n eomodation where he 11 5 f al'ours. The Albi oy) 11, BA ,ritamate to the liighlam ''al, that he comfortable of Inverness Pamily }foie A. App . ensures t o t h Royal Hotel, in any s i m i l ; in the Public Stabling i s *li sheti ; the Sereral P c n 4 stead y I ) :Zery d escrir tablish tr e There " ni F ill be lb lob tun' d istr; _ . o °jets In v • ernes! GENEr THE COM lovesl t oth err eits. er 1 11allie ul l y so ,. . ed ar tPottraet .„`‘ th have a l Ellis i_eihea, WI ) Nee, had ha with ou ,tries " dap out bow " I '" - aft tiNdk atotitcs hti 1 su ‘l l ktiff e d • T °. A . Anti n3ithi . n E c ' ef e l;tit! 944 !, so T —t,„ ' the "P•ied Th r ,%"°?ti. Iteetzblertei; BIRTHS. 05 . On the 9th inst., at Geneva, Lady C a th er i ne B o il eau , of a 1 , of On the 14th inst., at Kent Hou s e, Knight s b r id ge , the 13( T. H. Lister, Esq., of a daughter. Ile' On the 12th inst., at Brentwood, Essex, the l a dy o f the Francis W. Rhodes, of a daughter. riA b ' On the 11th inst., at Mrs. Armstrong' s , B e df or d- squ are s ton. the lady of Captain R. Warner, of a son. , o re I , On the 14th inst., the wife of T. M. %rid, Basinghall -s of twin sons. . n;t too , On the 28th ult., Mrs. Harrison, Swan Tavern, Thames v' Surrey, of a son. On the 17th inst., Mrs. Henry Phillip s , o f th e P arag on s cl't' l' road, of a daughter. ----'' MARRIED. On the 17th inst., at St. Mary's, Paddington, Henry Bickerotol Esq., one of his Majesty's Counsel, to the Lady Jane Elva Harley, eldest daughter of the Earl of Oxford and I.llortimer e ..viso On the 17th inst., at St. Marylebo ne Ch urc h, Mr. Nl3oe Mortloek, of Regent-street, to Anna, only daughter of 11r. derv, of Oxford-street. rbsrl es ' On the 15th inst., at St. M argare t' s , W es t m i ns ter, youngest son of John Baker, Esq., of Torrington-square, to , o'";ps. eldest (laughter of John Bellamy, Esq., of the House of Coulrob On the 15th inst., at St. P a nc ras , Joh n , eldest son a odi Power, late of Dangan, county Kilkenny, Esq., to Charlotte,.o4 surviving child of the late Rev. J. Brodrick, Rector of E Oll/ in the same county. ra ptii On the 14th inst., at Forge Lodge, Dumfries-shire, Cop Bowlby, of the Royal Artillery, to Margaret Matilda, datigvi` PuOn ltne th y Mein, E in st sq. e 14th ~ at Kingston Lisle, Thomas Thornhill /0 land, Esq., of Sheepstead, Berk s , to Loui s a, thi r d d a ughter 0 late Atkins Edwin Martin Atkins, Esq., of Kingston Lisle. g oo; On the 17th inst., at St. Pancras Church, Robert W. " 0 "/ tii Esq., of Glencorse, near Edinburgh, to Miss Eliza Brown, ° same place. DIED. $ 6114 On the 12th inst., at Southampton, Eliab Harvey Breton , of Harewood, Surrey, aged 29. „pjo On the 13th inst., at Bath, Mrs. Sydenham, widow of hei General Sydenham, Commandant of the Madras Artillery , 85th year. led On the 13th inst., at the Bank of England, having just cora his 75th year, Thomas Rippon, Esq., chief cashier. On the 15th inst., in her 25th year, Charlotte Harriet , s ec' daughter of George William Wye, Esq., of Kennington. , ra jotl‘' On the 12th inst , at Leamington, Warwickshire, Josoph ' Esq., in his 65th year. P t i . ' On the 13th inst., at Baddow-hall, Essex, John M‘Lachlan' for many years an active magistrate of that county. an ti ef On the 15th inst., George, the infant son of Mr. A le s Willis, Scot's-yard. ' ift On the 26th ult., at Naples, Thomas James Mathias, s'l• of his 82d year. ~ Pa On the 13th inst., Captain Charles Knatehbull, on ball'i the 20th Light Dragoons, aged 46. ss9.'On the Ist inst., at St. Omer, Charles Harrison Ba tt y , aged 49. CO' On the 13th inst., Edmund, eldest son of the late •—• Esq. O , of St. Pancras. wo re' On the 16th inst., in Compton-terrace, Islington, John Esq., in his 78th year. w eb On the 17th inst., George Pearson, Esq., of East Barnet, in his 43d year. isigB 9 ,* r On the 2d inst., at Crabtree, near Fulham, Mr. Roger — oe ' On the 16th inst., the i n f an t d aug ht er o f Mr. George t, of Euston-square, aged nine months. On the 15th inst., Jo se ph St a i nes , E sq ., o f Charlott e -Wee Fitzroy-square, in his 79th year. Lately, at Stockdale, aged 4. e v life On the 28th ult. , h at Hull, in her 83d year, B Dorothy, t h of Mr. Daniel Jones. Moo _ A O On the 30th ult., at North Cave, aged 88, Mrs. M in /elle' Thorpbassett, near Mahon. She was a member of th e ' society 6S years. Or' Lately, at Souldern, Oxford, Mrs. Ma r ia Minn, in her 80th,..." .................--....__. ___ ofd . -- London: Printed and Published by MURD - 0 i! . o l j l ' 4l6 ' 0 i n the 112, Strand, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, of Middlesex, .