The Sun. — London, England, 1835-07-24 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JULY 24, 1835. Stanley) with those who heave that it could not be a flu] mea sure, and his Notle Fi 'reed would not need to he under any apprehension fos the fete ef the Bill in the other House of En- Leughter.) His Noble Friend had asked him how it was that he could justify to himself the separation of the two pasts of the Bill ? He world tell him why—it was. because 1111 the discoid and confusion, all cause., of strife and blood shed in Ireland, were put a stop to by the first part of the Bill. If his Noble Friend asked him whether he thought that ',tie discontent of Ireland would . alt ether cease upon the passing of the Cast part of the Biil, answer him, " No ;" for whilst the Church of I: eland possessed cue hun dred peunds of income, there never . would he tranquillity amongst that party Which wished to' enjoy the revenues of 1 . that Church. The course nhicli Ministers ought to pursue was, first, to secure the peaceful collection of the Church re vsetess, to deal with the part of the Bill which affected the security of prep rty, end then, and not till then, to deal with thsie thecrits. He asked his Noble Friend, how could the King'S Government, charged with the peace of Ireland, how could that Che;ereatent, charged with the defence of pro pertv, with the maintenance of the law, and with the support of the Irish Church, refuse to separate the two parts of the Bill, cue portion of which they very well knew they svould rover lie able to pass hi the Upper House ( Loud and reherated eleeses.) There were principles in the Bill so ob jectiocahle in themselves., so utterly repugnant to the feelings and ronsciences of Gentlemen, that there wes no prospect of Parliament agrceieg, there was no possibility that any corve rience, that any doctrine of expediency, or of con:pre:sew, scald induces. Parliament to sacrifice its holiest co'nvictiens upon the sulajseet. This was the first time that he bad ever heard a Minister of the Crown say that he had two measures actually separate and I 'ecleeendeet both of which tended to results for the pacification of Ireland, and both of which' he wished to a:ono:et together, and that rather than separate them he svouid sacrifice the tranquillity of Ireland, and unite with them who were endcavuering to starve out the Clergy.—( Cries of " No, no," from the INlinisterial Leaches, replied to by loud cheers from the opposite side of the house.) Yes, replied the Noble Lord, to starve out the Clergy of Ireland by withhold their legal rights. Was the House by reflecting on the distress to which the Clergy might be driven, by feelings of rcmpassion, was the House to be driven to consent to the maion of the two paste of the Bill ?—( Hear, hear.) He knew that the distress of the Clergy would be greet if the Bill were not to be passed, and 1.0 most earnestly wished to see pass so much of it aS would put 4 stop to passive resistance, and tranauillise the country. lie wea eld tell the Noble Lord that he would not succeed.—( Cheers.) believed that the Clergy, one and all, were prepared to suffer gra:. ater distresses than they had yet borne. They were prepared to trtZ't to the miserable resources of private charity rather than see a eiole carried into effect which they held to be destructive of til t e interests of that religion of which they were the faithful and -conscientious Ministers.—(Cheers.) An affirmation of this was to be found in the address that had been presented to the Throne by the Clergy of the diocese of. Westmeath. The address set forth that the Clergy had been deprived of three tenths of their income, almost as a penalty for the discharge of their duties as Christian Ministers. They added, that they would most willingly submit to the present Bill, but when they considered that the Bill contained clauses calculated not merely to effect the overthrow of the Protestant Church, but that it would lead to the extermination of his Majesty's Protestant subjects in Ireland, they felt it their duty not to escape perse cution themselves t a e the sacrifice of their successors and of all whom they loved. The address then said that the Clergy respectfully and earnestly implored his Majesty, that no feel ings for their sufferings would induce his Majesty to assent to such a measure, fraught, as it was, with ruin to his Majesty's Protestant subjects.—( Hear.) They hoped that under no consideration would a Protestant Parliament be induced to give its sanction to such a measure. He was satiafied that one part of thenneasuste would pacify Ireland, and he implored tile House to reconsider the question before them, and consent, at all events, to divide the Bill.—(The Noble Lord sat down amidst the loudest applause.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose, in the hope at that late hoar, after three nights' debate, and after it had been said that this question bore reference to the resolution which he had lately introduced, that the House was desirous to bring the discussion to a close, and to decide what was the opinion of the House upon the question. He would endeavour to state the qfiestion as fairly as he could, although no doubt there were some parts of the Noble Lord's speech, particu larly the latter part of it, which almost trenched upon the orders of this House.—( Hear, hear.) It certainly did appear to him as unparliamentary.—(Loud cheers.) He might have reason to advert to that language again ; but he must say nosseoahat he though due to the King's Government, of which ,lie was 'a Member, that they, bringing forward this question 'soberly, conscientiously, and after long deliberation—consi dering that it was requisite to settle this much-disputed ques tion—considering that it was necessary for the peace of Ireland, and that it would promote the good of Ireland,and tend to the ad- Tenement of religion in that country—acting upon these motives, and having these opinions of their measure, it was not for them to say whether there were in that House, or in any other House of Parliament, such a number of persons as to be able to defeat, and to set that measure aside.—(Loud cheering.) If his Majesty's Government did believe that it was required for those great purposes, it was their duty to propose it. Were it the force of an honest and conscientious opinion, or the force of any other motive, whatever it might be, that this measure was right, it would he dastardly and base far •them to shrink from the uttering of their principles, or to pause, because they were told by some gentlemen or other that they ought to abandon a measure which would not be al lowed to pass elsewhere. Was he to be told that there ex isted; either in that House or in the other House of Parliament a body of men so determined upon opposition to this Bill, that no force of circumstances, no force of argument, no conside rations of prudence, no consideration for the future peace and improvement of these kingdoms, would induce them to listen to any terms—would induce them to come to any compromise —hot that before the question had ever gone into Commitee of the House of Commons, they were pre-determined to im pede the King's Ministers, and not allow them to pass the measure at ali. If there were no other objection to that lan guage—if it were not indecorous to this House, it was, to say the least of it, a libel upon the other House of Parlia ment.—( Cheers.) Its believed that the House of Lords would listen calmly to everything that could he said upon this measure. Ile would believe that if they did reject it, they wcuid reject it after due examination. But he would not believe that now, at this day, that before the measure had passed through the preliminary stages in this House, they were altogether resolved that they would give it no examination—thiit they would enter into none of its provisions—that they would not examine the Report of the Commissioners they had laid be fore them—but that they were - predetermined to persevere, that to them, at least, should not be applied the term of a deli berative assembly.—(Cheering.) But such, in few words, was the effect and meaning of what his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) had had the condescension to declare to the House as a reason to induce them to forego any further considera tion of what he (Lord J. Russell bad hitherto thought was due frcm them, ia the discharge of their legislative duties. he wculd not, at that hour, enter into those parts of the Bill, and those reasons upon which they were founded, upon which Hon. Members had already argued with great ability and research ; with one exception—that of the Hon. Member opposite, whose speech was entirely upon the subject of the Poor Laws. lie thought altogether that the discussion bad been managed by the greatest attention to the subject, and that very great ability had been displayed on both sides. There was one thing, how ever, which fell from hi s Ri g ht H on . F r i en d, th e en Mer for Cumberlaud, that hardly seemed to come properly into the discussion—he meant the address which his Right Ilon. Friend read from the Synod of Dumfries—( Laughter and cheers)—an address in which the addressers thought fit to menace the Sovereign with a defection of their allegiance it' the Legislature adopted this measure.—(Loud cheers.) if any Roman Catholic agitator had presumed to say that 'if this Bill did not pass, the allegiance of the Roman Catholics would be dissolved, with what invective would not the Right lion. Baronet have denounced the presumption, the boldness --nay, the treason, of those by whom such an assertion was made ?—(Cheers.) However, with regard to these good, well nominated—( Laughter and cheers)--and well-subsisted mem- Leri of this Presbyterian Synod, he (Lord John Russell) thought their words might be turned aside as a mere empty menace.—( Clieer3.) Now, the main question at issue, or at least one of the main questions, was that to which, he thought, nearly every Memher on the other side of the House.had paid little attention ; —that question was as to the state in which we stood with respect to the collection of tithes in Ireland.— (Cheers.) This had been a frequent subject of discussion, and was peculiarly so when his Noble Fiiend (Lord Stanley) introduced his Bill or, the subject. The object of that Bill alas to make composition of tithes .compulsory. It was his Noble Friend's, and his own opinion, that by passing that Bill they should.sccure the collection of tit Les. At the end of the Siseusslon of that measure, his Noble Friend and him- self stated their opinions upon the question of appropria tion—his Noble Friend stating that he never would consent to alienate any part of the Church property, and he (Lord J. Russell) stating on the other hand, that he thought the property Of the Protestant Church was too great for the spritual care of its meml?crs, and too great for its own stability. In the following year further attempts were made to collect tithe. But instead of persevering in those at tempts, it was thought necessary, by the Government of which hi., Noble Friend was then. the organ, to make a proposal to this House to give a million to the Irish clergy. From that time there had been no regular collection of tithe; and a Bill wa-, introduced last year for the purpose of still effectl . ng that object. But did the Bill, separated from the qucstioo of appropriation, succeed ?—(Cheers.) The sum to be paid to the clergy was diminished—diminished, as .he thought, too greatly—by a division in that House, in w h.lch the Government were in a minority. The ma jority of the House said, " that without a very great sa crifice—that of 40 per cent.—they would not pass a 1311 i for the collection of tithe." That Bill was thrown out in the House of Lords; and he (Lord John Russell) thought it must now Ix: a mater of regret to many that it was so thrown Out. But did the Government succeed afterwards in collect- ing the tithes?—(Cheers.) A P„irl,t Hon. Gentlemar; just rosy in the House (Sir H. Hardinge) ft :J., : there was nothing so much to be deprecated as the u;c of ruilit4.— force in the collectuni of tithes ; and that he hi mse lf did no believ.: that the Housi would give its sanction t o i t . That Right lion i Gentleman then ntrodgced a Bill not cont a i n i ng ay sion res p ec ting the appropriation. Upon the introduction of that Bill, he (Lord J. Russell) moved the resolutiOn to which so much reference had been made, " th a t any surplus not required for purposes of the...:}lorch should b e app li ed to the religious arid moral education of the people, without distinction of religious persuasion." The House adopt e d th at resolution, and another resolution which followed, in which it was stated that no measure on the subject of tithes in Ire laner could be final or satisfactory without embodying the principle contained in the first resolution. It was neces- j saiy to advert to these resolutions, becatre it would he seen at once that the proposition now before the House was to undo that vote, and to induce the 1i0u,7.2 to separate the two measurcs, and to' say that the ' one measure proposed by the Right Honourable. Baronet should pass, and that the other should be totally rejected. Ills belief was, that if they attempted to collect tithes without adopting the clauses respecting appropriation, they would have to encounter greater chstaelcs than coal.. The collection of tithes by law had not succeeded ; the colle c ti on by military force hail led to lamentable results. Cochin' . then, at the question which his Noble Friend put at the creel of his speech, he ( Lord John Russell) wculd ask, if they did not adopt this Bill, but adopted a separate Bill for the collection of tithes, would his Noble Friend be able to make that collection with peace ? Did he believe that if, he or any other man were now in the Gove r n ment , a f ter t h e reso l ut i on o f this House, after the strong opinion it had pronounced, it would he easy or practicable to collect tithes in Ireland with out an immense aut nictitation of the military force, witheut coming down to that House for increased supplies, and further measures of coercion 2—(Cheers.) Nobody could believe, that after the resolution the House had p assed, it would be ready to enter into ilny such contest—(Cheers)--or that it would declare that for the sake of that principle which his Noble Friend had stated, and which his Right Hon. Friend (Sir James Graham) had also advocated, hut on which they had received little support from the Right Ilan. Member for Tamworth, Parliament would go into such a contest ; and pro vided they could sec the tithes collected, and the Protestant Church in safety, they would carry on thepresent sys.tem fer the sake of the principle, that no part of the Church revenue should be appropriated to other than what they termed Ecclesiastical purposes. His Noble Friend thought the present revenues were not more than sufficient for those purposes, and that the ; object of an Established Church was to propagate that faith which they believed to be true, and that it wits not the duty of the State to countenance the distribution of those revenues to other purposes ? . Now, he confessed he (Lord John Russell) took the view which his Noble Friend ( Lord Flowick) did as to the duty of the State with regard to a Church Establish ment. A Church Establishment was a means to an end, - and he considered that end to be the promotion of good government, and the religious benefit of the whole com munity. Now he could not leave out of sight the f ac t that there were 6,500,000 Roman Catholics in Ireland. He could not talk of providing for the religious wants of the com munity without considering that there was that large body of people, being a great majority of the people of Ireland, separated from the Established religion. If they meant to reach them, and to inculcate religious instruction into their minds, and teach them in those parts of the Christian faith common to all, they could not do this by preaching in the l a 'stablislied Church, and, therefore, they must appropriate same - p„s! of their means to instruct them in a manner in that way alone ;.7. which they could participate of the benefits it was intended to Carden. This was the calm and proper view to be taken of the subject by a abtesman. When, therefore, he saw 3,250,000 Catholics, and only it 7,0,900 Protestants in one province, he could not consent that the revenues derived from that province should be exclusively devoted to the reli gious instruction of the 150,000 Protestants, and that nothing should be contributed towards the religious and moral instruc tion of the three millions and a quarter of Catholics.—( Cheers. ) But in making provision for the instruction of Catholics, lie would do it in such a manner as would leave an ample fund to supply all the spiritual wants required by the Protestant Church. The Protestant Establishment in Ireland was sanc tioned by the Act of Union, and was connected in a great de gree with the property of the country ; he therefore wished it to remain an Established Church. He did not enter into the views of those who said that there ought to be a Roman Ca tholic Church established in Ireland. He should think it a great misfortune to this country, and a source of deep regret, if there were such an establishment. He believed the great majority of the Catholics in Ireland did not seek for any such measure. He believed that the great body in this country, not only Members of the Church, but all the Protestant Dissen ters, would be opposed to any such measure; He was bound, therefore, by his views of policy, not to attempt to introduce the Roman Catholic Church into Ireland. But this he might do; he might provide for the Protestant Esrablishment what was sufficient for her wants ; and he might then have a surplus revenue applicable to other purposes, among which he regarded us the most important the providing moral and religious instruction for the Roman Catholics in Ireland, by which they might become better Christians and better members of a civilized community. There was a great fallacy, he contended, in the argument of the. Right Hon. Baronet, which he derived from his calculation of the number of benefices and,Protestants throughout Ireland generally.— (Hear, hear.) He had another calculation of his own, which he had reason to believe was much more correct. The reset of it was, that the revenue of the Church was 700,727/. (Cheers.) His Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Cumber land (Sir James Graham), had said that he could not conceive it possible to have a Church Establishment unless the means of religious worship were brought home, as it were to every man's door. Had such a state of things ever existed in land ?—( Hear, heat'.) Had the means of religious worship been brought home to every man's door in that part of the em pire ? Now, he could show his Right Hon. Friend unions of porishes in which the church was distant from its communicants ten, fifteen, and twenty-five miles.—(Loud cheers.) There were 30 benefices in Ireland, in which the whole number of Protestants were 526 ; in these benefices there were 79 clergymen, 69 of whom were non-resident, and in 42 of them there was no church at all. Yet the total amount of their tithe revenues was not Less than 13,8891.—(L0ud cheers.) Making out this calculation to its utmost extent, he found that the amount of revenue derived from these benefices was in the proportion of 125/. for every Protestant inhabi tant.--(Tremendous cheers.) He called upon that House to say whether this was a state of things which could longer be endured ; was it a state of things they could attempt to per petuate, or. one which they could expect the people of Ireland , would longer toleratc.—( Cheers.) To this state of things he thought the great majority of that House were persuaded the time of applying a remedy had arrived. That remedy his Majesty's Government now proposed. The Bill to which the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet referred was brought for ward with that view, and to that Bill they asked the sanction of Parliament. If they passed the measure, lie maintained they would render the collection of tithe practicable in Ireland, and give the Established Church in that country a degree of permanent security and stability which it bad never before possessed.—( Cheers.) If the Bill were passed, the Roman Catholic inhabitants of Ireland would at length consider that their interests, their wishes, and their feelings, were not wholly neglected by the Legislature of the--United Kingdom. They would at length be induced to believe that they were objects of some care and consideration with the Imperial Par liament.—( cheers.) That the measure was not a perfect one he admitted ; that very great results might not he anticipated from it he conceded ;—( Cheers ;)—but did his Noble Friend really think they could rest as they were, without some such Bill?—=Did he really think it possible,. without some such measure, to support the Established Church in any form whatsoever.—(llear, hear, and cheers.) Was he sanguine enough, or blind enough to think it possible that th e y cou ld, by any means, or under any circumstances, succeed in effect ing the collection of tithe unless some such measure were im mediately adopted—( Renewed cheering)--the more especially after what had recently passed upon the subject, and after the Resolutions which that House had entered into upon the Right Hon. Baronet's own proposition ?—( Cheers.) After the events which bad recently occurred, there was no returning to the old system; and even if they could retarn to it, the growing discontent of the Irish people would render such a proceeding utterly inefficacious. If the House passed that Bill they would settle the questioe of tithe ; and they would secure to the Church a certain amount of revenue. These were some of the results which he confidently expected would flow from the measure, which had the additional advantage of having re ceived the support of those who had hitherto been utterly ad verse to all propositions of a , similar description.—( Cheers.) This circumstance, he trusted, would render its reception and success in Ireland a matter of certainty ; he confidently anti cipated that it would be considered a work of peace, and a tes timony of the disposition of that House not to forget the real claims of the Irish people, nor to be backward in redressing the grievances of which . they so loudly and so justly com plained. These were the grounds on which be urged the House to lend its sanction to the measure, and resist the M 0... tion of the Right Hon. Baronet. These were the grounds on which he founded his hopes of its practical success.—( Loud and prohinged ) O'CONNELL implored the House to pause and con sider the fatal cOnsequencz s which must inevitably result from , the rejection of the measure, not only to the empire generally, but to the lion. Gentlemen opposite, on whose actions and on whose course of preceding alone, the consequences of that re jection must rest.--( Cheers.) The hopes of the Irish people had been raised : anticipations of the redress of long-existing, and heavy wrongs had been excited in their bosoms ; they had been taught for the first time to feel that their brethren in England had awakened to a sense of the demand they pos sessed on their sympathies and kindly feelings. He entreated the House not to cast lightly away the good effects which this impression had already produced. Tranquillity and peace had even Dow been in a great measure restored. The judges in the southern and western parts of the country had compli mented the grand juries on the tranquillity of their respective districts ; the only disturbances that had been committed, had taken place in the north of Ireland, and they had originated with the extreme loyalists, who had so misconducted them. selves, that it became necesszry for the soldiers to fire upon them. He implored the House, in the strongest and most emphatic terms he could possibly make use ef, not to accede to the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, the more especially after what had taken place in tile course of the debate ; in which, al:hough great interest had been expressed as to the number of Protestants in different places..—HOW stated to be 120 here, then 50 there, and again "0 elsewhere—no allusion had been made to the number of Catho lics in the different benefices. And yet, what was the real state of the case ? In the diocese of Armagh the total num- ber of Protestants was 783,000, of which 517,782 were Epis copalians, while the number of Catholics was no less thiln 1,437,401—( Cheers)-1,437,401 Roman Catholics in the dio. cese of Armagh alone 1---(Renewed cheering.) In Dublin the number of Protestants was 177,930, that of the Catholics 1,630,681.—(Cheer5.) in the diocese of Cashel the number - c Protestants was 112,434, the nurnte« of Catholics 2,220,000 and upwar,:.:. In Connaught the number of Protesiani..; wp; 444,900, ti l e numbei• of Catholics 1,188,500.—( Cheers.) _ Could the Established Church i" • T-eland, under any circum ' ^ 'Loud cheers.) stances whatever, be called a national church r— _ " Can you p resume, " cont i nue d t h e H on . an d 'Learnca tleman, " can you presume, I ask you, to call the Establish.. Church of Ireland a national church ?—( Cheers.) Turn Ire land into a province, if you please ; call it a provincial Church, and then I will discuss with you the point whether its ex tent is sufficiently Commensurate with its utility to justify the appellation; but the mere act of calling an establishment like this a national Chnech, is es grass a vielation of every prin ciple of nationality as car, he conceived. "---( Loud cheering.) The Catholics of Ireland were five millions . , and a half; the total dumber of Protestants was one million and a half. Count theni—atake them man for man, and what was the result ? A balance of five millions in female of the Catho lies.—(Great cheering.) What did they find else ? That there were two Catholics for every Protestant, and a surplus el three millions and a h-if of Catholics into the hargain. Why, was this Church Establishment—this nes tional Church—to be eelaared ?—( Long aid f ond cheerialga ) eat An Honourable and • G a ll an t Mlicr had alluded to the town of Dundalk, and had stated that the members of the Church were increasing in that neighbourhood. The town ar.d parish con tained 1,433 members of the Establishment, and when reminded that. it included the fourteen Protestant inhabitants of Castledown, the Hon. l'ifember asked what that had to do with the ease ? But do not let it be forgotten, that the rector of these united parishes was also rector of Louth.—(llear, hear.) Where, then, was the anxious attention to the wants of the few Protestants in the parish of Coale town ?—( Cheers.) Of course the rector of these united parishes does full justice to the 61 members of the Church in his parish of Loath. Where, then, was the anxiety to provide cash clergyman with Isis 175!. ? The rector of Lends was resident, an,: bad Only his 261 Protestant parishioners-to take care of. Why not then give up his 2,000/. a year surplus for other purposes ( near, hear.) He would take the dioceses of Raphoe and Ardagli as to the numbers of the members at* the Church and the Who hes, and even the most bigoted must admit, that he had not taken en .unfair case, but that it was unexceptionable. le the first' of these dioceses, then, take the 33,500 members of the establish ment to the 145,000 Catholic inhabitants of it, and in the lat ter the 17,000 Protestants against the 195,000 Catholics. The revenues of the Church should be for the religious instruc tion -of the entire 400,000 inhabitants of these. dioceses. Every parish paid tithes—there was a glebe house or land in almost every one of the parishes of these dioceses. But take; on the other hand, the diocese of Tuam, with its 437,000 Catholics, against its 9,000 Members of the Establishment.—(Hear, hear.) The establishment was intended for both the 9,000 Protestants and the 417,000 Catholics.—( Hear, hear.) He was told, however, in the vulgar language of authOrh y, that Protestant worship must be maintained in every parish. Here, then, was the 467,000 CatLo lies and the 9,000 Members of the Church. They were told that • the means of religious instruction must be maintained for the lat ter; but who was to provide for the religious instruction of the 437;000 Catholics ?_( Hear, hear.) Was it not themselves'? — (Cheers.) They were taxed for the maintenance of the Protes tant Church, and they supported their own Churches, and they hail their own Archbishops, and Deans, and Priests, and Curates, with out coming to the treasury of Protestants, or taking money from their, pockets.--(Hear, hear.) They did not require Protestants to contribute to their Church, but there were many liberal-minded Protestants, and they received the blessings of thousands for it, who did largely contribute t o the buildi n g Catholic places of divine worship.--( Hear.) Was not the Protestant Church as good as that of the Catholics, that it required this adventitious aid ?—had it not as powerful influence on the human mind ? It was said that the Catholic religion was founded in ignorance, and could be dispelled by education ; how, then, can those who advance such an opinion refuse to Catholics the chance of education, out of the funds which they mainly contribute to.—(Cheers.) But there was an objection to educate the Catholics. It was said that they were a benighted set, and buried in ignorance ; and that the only remedy was education. By this means it was said that they would be made Protestants ; then why not adopt the course, if such was the result that was exissted?—(Hear, hear.) i fie truth was, they charged the Catholics with ignorance, and refused the means which they alleged would dispel it. The Hon. Member for Cumberland had done him the honour of noticing him in a pointed manner—. (Cheers)—a notice which he (Mr. O'Connell) had not provoked in any way ; the Right Hon. Baronet had touched on topics which had not previously been alluded to--he then went on to sneer at the Catholics, and to heap his ,praise on the Protestant Dissenters of England ; the deductions from his speech were very different from the facts he had stated—for he had drawn out of his pocket a. passage of Clarendon respecting the turning the Bishops out of •the House of Lords, but instead of endeavouring to excite unne cessary fears he should rather have deplored what had brought matters to that point.—(Cheers.) He should have deplored their conduct, and remembered, that the Bishops occupied themselves in hunting out where the Dissenters had last been at prayers, and pursued such a course of persecution, as ex cited the indignation of the people of England.—( Hear, hear.) He should not have forgotten that they had lent themselves in every instance to palliate the crimes of the Court.—(Cheers.) When the Right Hon. Gentleman sneered at the Catholics and praised the Protestant Dissenters of England—and endeavoured to excite alarm by alluding to the expulsion of the Bishops from the other House, he might have remembered that this was done by the provocations heaped upon the Protestant Dissenters, and that there was not a single Catholic then in Parliament, who voted for the Bishops - retaining their seats in the Upper House.—( Cheers.) They then pursued a consistent and zealous, but a mistaken course of po licy.—( Hear, hear.) Was this then a topic for the Right Hon. Member to sneer at the Catholics for ? Was he justified in taking up such topics in a way which, to say the least of it, was utterly un justifiable ?—(Hear, hear.) But what had the Church gained by the rejection of the Bill of last year?—( Cheers.) By that Bill the Protestant clergyman was to receive 771. 10s. per cent. from the Treasury, and to be exempted from all the trouble and anxiety of collecting his tithes. Had the Irish Clergy then gained by the rejection of the Bill of last year as compared with either of the measures that had been introduced in the present session ? (Cheerso The Right Hon. and Gallant Officer proposed in his Bill to give the Irish clergman 2/. 10s. per cent, less than lie would have received by that rejected by the House of Lords last year. A further reduction was to be made in this measure ; so that if this measure was passed, 51. 10s. per cent. would be lost to the clergy in every. 1001.—(Hear, hear)—more than would have been the case, if the Bill of last year had not been de layed. But if this measure was rejected, what would be the Bill of next year ?—(Loud cheers.) The Bill of last year was rejected, which the Noble Lord had opposed in consequence of so much be ing taken from the Church ; but he hinted that. that prt of the Bill of this year, which was to reduce the income of the clergy .to 731. ss. per cent., should have his approval.—( Cheers.) So, then, this year, those are ready to accept 73!. ss. who rejected the Bill cif last year, which was to give the clergy 771 10s. per cent.— The Right Hon. Bennet might despise the Catholics of Ireland, and might call upon the House to throw out this measure ; but what did his Church gain by the rejection of the Bill of last year ? (Cheering.) Had the Church gained by the massacres that had taken place, because that Bill did not pass?--(Oh!) Had it gained —was it by the slaughter of the men at Rathcormac, whose lives would have been spared if this Bill had not passed?—( Cheers.) Had the Church gained by the rejection of that Bill ? He would appeal to the wailing of the widow and the screams of the children, and the moaning of the parents—for the husband's, and father's, and offspring's blood that had been shed at liathcormac.— (Loud cheering.) Were more nathcormacs desired ?—(Renewed cheering.) he Cat holies of Ireland were not only treated with disregard, but with contempt. In passing through Con nemara, ten Protestants would hardly be met with in the district, which was not equal to one to a square mile, and yet a Protestant Establishment must be kept up in that part of the country. You are strong, observed the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and will you tell the Catholics of Ireland that their feelings and judgments alien be outraged, and that they shall still be exposed to every in justice ? Will you tell them that althou g h th e y are u p war d s o f 7,000,000, their feelings shall be wounded and insulted, and their interests sacrificed for the gratification of 800,000 persons ? ( Cheers.) It may be proper that the 800,000 shall have provision made for their a eligious instruction ; but will you not allow the overwhelming majority of the Irish nation to receive any share of education, the funds for which are mainly furnished by themselves, lest they should be improved ?—( Cheers.) Aral who pursues such policy—what statesman, forsooth ?—(Loud. cheers.) He could not help smiling at the pions Sergeant saying that the numbers of the Irish Church hadnotinereased, becauseit had been so poor for such a series of years.—(Laughter.) He thought he saw the tears flowing down the Learned Sergeant's cheeks when he uttered such a pious lamentation.—(Laughter.) These receivers of tithes, then, were so poor, that they could net propagate their religion in Ireland, and yet it might be thought that the Catholic priest would be poorer, who received no tithes. The lamentation was that there was no corn in Egypt, but how just was the remark. All us i on h a d been made to the island Aehlin, the Protestant incumbent of which received 9007, aevear. A person had been sent ever to that island from Exeter-halr to convert the Catholics. He took out with bin: a capital of 2,5001., and took co. number of 1 rotestants with him, which were daily inertasing. As the island at the time was over flowing with population, the people were dissatisfied and drove the settlers elsewhere, and yet this had been the ground of attack on the Catholic Church. The same circumstances would certainly have taken place elsewhere. He could not refrain from laughing at the importance attached to the increase of the number of Pro testants in some parishes. Any person who carefully looked at the two colunlns in the Report—the one taken in 1830, and the other in 1831—would see that the latter was rather a correction of the former ; he, however, did not place the slightest r e liance on such returns. In one parish, near his own residence, it had been stated that there had been a great increase in the Protestant inhabitants in the course of three years, namely—lrons 32 to 49. Now, it so' happened that 16 Protestants had been transferred from one parish to another. The keeper of the water-guard and his family had been moved from one side of the river to the other. So much for the -increase of Pro:estants iu that, quarter. Ii there had been an . in crease in one parish, there bad been accompanying diminution in another.—( Cheeus. ) In another case an apparent increase had taken place by a Protestant relative of - his own and his family coming to reside in a parish. This, however, was miserable. special pleading with an important question. He would not follow the Right Hon. Member for Cumberland through the length of his speech. Ile had, amongst other things, alluded to the Church of Scotland. But how did the Scots acquire their Church ? Were there no Grahams or Grwmes—no knights of the bright aord in those ' days.—( Shouts of laughter.) Had the Grahams fallen from their former chivalry--(Laughter)—when they were so anxious to risk nothing ? These who cwiquered for the religion of their country, risked everything for it. The Right Hon. Baronet, however, would risk nothing._( Cheers.) They had also received a lecture on charity by one of the Members for Berkshire, whom he did not then see. Oh ! he perceived that the Hon. Member had moved over the way ; he congratulated him on his change of place—he was in his proper hemisphere—he was now in his proper element. The lion. Member reminded him of— " The last rose of summer—(Great laughter) Left blooming alone All its lovely companions We: e faded and gene !" _(Cheers and shouts of laughter, which lasted same minute. 7.) The Hem. Gentleman had shown a great deal of cunning, which and those points gree kind e o d n i d m w c l h ie d a u p i p n e o a t re h d ui t t o h b i e m j i n n i s e li i g 'a h r t i e ta st bl d e e was willing to give poor laws to Ireland, forsooth, which could not affect bins the Slightest degree. The Hon. Gentleman reminded• him of the man who gave ;,torte wlien asked for bread.— (Cheers.) He said that he would not consent to dispeu4e with any portion of the revenues of the Protestant Church m Ireland, W ou ld E n uland give anything for the mainta7nance of the Catholic clergy ? fi'cre the peoplP QI irPlanii to continuo to pay the Pro testant clergy, if this measure did not pi - ps'i They regarded it as the earnest of the future peace and tranquility of Ireland, and wore their hopes to be disappointed, and the cup of expectation again tq be flashed from their lips ?—(Cheers.) By the Bill of last year, th e million advancc:cl to the Irish clergy was to be repaid to the Eng lish Treasury; but what was the ti lit Mgt. aro CiAllilut Gfficer l 9 proposed amendment to this? The million was to be allowed to the clergy, and no po Von of that sum was to be repaid. The plan of the present Ministry was to give up the million to the clergy, and by doing so, to endeavour to make a purchase of the peace of Irelacol..,-( Cheers.) Twenty millions wcre freely given to remove the stain of slaVery 'from Brill 1:1 colonies, and was the House unwilling to give one million to reliciT" the (at:holies porn the pp, pression of that grinding faction which had crushed the country to ' dust—which had deeply imbued its hands in the blood of'the people or rrn.—and was no w as anxious as ever to pursue a simi lar course ?—(LOitil The passing this measure would produce a great, an electric effect throughput Rebind. It wonld proclaim to the people of that country-the dot vnfait of those who had tyrannized over them—the dismissal of that faction which had ever exerted itself to oppress and crush them to the earth.— _ ,„. t Cheers. ) Even now the toast was drunk of " Protestant Ascen dancy ;" that was. tilt there should not be equality, but that one party should dem:nosr over another. The late, however, had put Catholics on a footin3k, of equality with Protestants, and if the attempt wee mule to nut thjrn down,' they would reply, " We ere 7,C0t),M0, and will not be oppressed by a miserable mina rity."--4 Loud cheers. ) Was the House proud of putting its hnnis into the pockets of the Irish people for the purpose of taking tithes for the maintenance of the Protestant clergy ? Oral-, hear.) He thanked the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir -fames Graham) :or the sneers that he had indulged in at the (2:shines. Flo v. - as 'a matt cf nice conscience : Corn and Currency was formerly Lis maxim ; now it must be Consci ence and Candour.—(Great laughter.) He had. taunted him (Mr. O'C onne ll) a g en t t h e bloody- head and bones. The sneer "came extremely well from such a quarter ; half Reformer—half bigot—(and as we understood the lion. and Learned Gentleman) —pallid with fear on one side, insolent with temerity on the ether. —(Great cheering.) Ile. would keep up the apparition before the Right lion. Gentleman, and set up the bloody head and bones for a coat of arms for him.—(Cheers and laughter.) The great eb ject of the people of Ireland was to procure peace and tranquillity front the British empire. All that they demanded was justice; it had been long withheld from them, and they demanded - an inde pendant legislature. • The demand was made, and the proposition was met with an. overwhelming tnejsfity of that House and :he una nimous vote of' the other House; but then the too branches of the' Legislature solemnly promised to adopt immediate steps to get rid of the grievances of Ireland. He asked, were they or were they not prepared to fulfil their promises?—(Cheers.) The Right lion. Baronet opposite and his friends had never in their whole career benelii ed Ireland by more than a single measure, and that was invariably disfigured by their pointing to one individual end stigmatizing him. He remembered the origin of the career of the Hon. Member for - Cambridge, and it furnished a melancholy story ; but he certainly, with most beau tiful consistency, held out to the last, and in the end.pronounced his Mil eulogium. On what ground could they object to the present proposition? It provided for the sniritted wants of the Protestants, and it gave to the Catholics nothing more than just as much education as could be provided for them by the surplus.— (Cheers.) They were told that ecclesiastical property was inalien able.- Was it so? Did it not originally belong to the Roman Ca tholics, and was it not wrested from them? Was it inalienable? If so, he claimed it.—( Cheers.) The power which gave it to them, had the power to take it away. He put it to the Hon. Mem ber for Cumberland, if a few Roman Catholics found their way to Cockermouth and insisted on taxing the Protestants, what would he say ? Wonld he not resort to his bright sword to resist the in novation. He would resist to the death, and he would have a right to do so. The people of Ireland did not resist. To be sure they had got a habit of not paying—(Great.laughter)—though per hal s the iocose speech of the Noble Lord on the subject of his own religion might coax them into doing so. • This was their time to introduce the principle contained in this Bill. They slid wronglast year in rejecting it. Why was it rejected ? Why, because a Noble Duke —No; he begged his pardon—he believed that Noble Duke strove against the opposition, seeing what the probable effect would be to the clergy ; but he was overwhelmed, and acquiesced in the violence of those w h ose v i o l ence and bigotry were allowed to prevail. He hoped they would see no more religion stained with blood—he hoped they would see no more of the piety which, while it raised the eyes in devotion, foundamusket with the b tyonet fixed.--(Cheers.) Let them not be swayed, at such a time as this, by considerations of pounds, shillings, and pence, but let them rather, in the noble spirit of benevolence, endeavour to infuse peace and tranquillity into Ireland.—( Cheers.) [We regret in consequence of the lateness of the hour at which Mr. O'Connell addressed the House, that we have been obliged to curtail a consi derable portion of the Hon. and . Learned Gentleman's eloquent speech, which was listened to throughout with the' most marked attention, and was repeatedly interrupted -by loud and long conti nued cheerings.] On the Hon. and Learned Gentleman resuming his scat, there were loud cries of". Divide." The House then divided, when there appeared -. For the Amend men t Against it Majority for Ministers The House then went into Committee pro forma, and resumed almost immediately, when the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again. The other Orders of the Day werithen:dispose(l of, and the House adjourned at half-past three o'clock: - PRICES OF STOCKs Tl-11.: Rank Stock ...21554 16 3 eer Cent. Red ......... ......01 90% 3 per Cent. Com.— ..... 9114 % 3j per Ct.T. R 99 1 .4 Ditto lie d 99% 'B"Ti, New 3',4 per Cent......... 98% Sv % 3 per Cent. f tlte," s • ser i :gsentcd — Bank Long, nnuiticsto expire Jan. 5, .410 16 15-16% Oct. 1:1, IF5il 16 11.16 Jan. 5, ism — J;e:i. 5, ISW — April 5, NW - — Jan. 5. 1876 — PRICES OF 1 , (:::.F.1GN FUNDS Austrian Bonds Beigian BondS Ditto Account Brazilian Bonds 66 % 6 Ditto Account Buenos Ayre3 Bands I )itto Account Chiltic,ii Bonds 45 Ditto Account Cointribian Bonds •• Ditto Account Cohnotiian Bonds, Nr2l Ditto Account Danish Bonds Ditto Account Greck Bonds Dittr. Prindz i 1925 • Ditto Account Mexican Botnis, cent.— • Ditto Acconnt `Ditto, 6 per cent Dito Account Nt-,anelitan PRICES OF IRISH STO 3 per Cent. Consols 9ON Itto Ileduce.l I±:', , y:er ('ent. Stocl - 9814 Ditto New, 1830 ".f. ~er Cent. Debentures...— 9l3a' Ihnk Stock '2'23 34 Royal ('anal Stock. (;rand Canal Stock 93 DAY AT ONE O'COLCK. New 5 per Cent India 5t0ck.......... Ditto Bonds South Sea Stock Old Annuities New Ditto 3 per Cent. Annuities, 1751... Exch. Bills, .El,OOO ...... 29 31 pm. Ditto 500 29 31 pm. Ditto Small Ditto Commercial Ditto Advertised — pm. Bank Stock for Account -- India Stock for Account Consols for A ccou t 'fl .•• ••• es 255% 6 10 12 pm THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. Peruvian Bonds .. . — Ditto Account Portugueseßonis — Ditto Account — Ditto New Bonds 91 3 i ‘,. Ditto Account 9114 Prussian Bonds — Ditto BondS, Pk? , — Russian Bonds, IS2" — Ditto Account — Otto Metallic — Spanish Bonds 52 1 / 4 1% Ditto Account 52 Iti Ditto Bonds, 1531 4l B' 2 Ditto Account — French, 5 per cent. —f. —c .....—. 4 per cc'''. —f. —c .....-111.. 11 per c.nit. —f. --c. Exclintigc r. —c Dutch, 514 , , rer cent. 5 1% % Ditto Account — DO to, 5 per c,iit 10: ? 8 34 11itto Account DUBLIN, JULY '2l Grand Canal Deb, 6 per cent. 111% - Ditto, 4 per cent 6O Itank City of Dublin Mean] Co. 167 Naiional Insurance Cc.:npany 3154 City Debentures, 4 per cent 7934 Ballast Office Debentures, 4 pa• cent PIZICES OF SHARES. THIS DAY AT.ONE O'CLOCK. Paid. Per Share Uteri Mining'Company -ClO% Brazilian Imperial Minin li g Co. (issued at W. pm.) 2 1 . , :17 fl I(IFI V NATt - .7.3 AT LONDON' 1111IDGE'TO-11011.1ZOW. Mort.itv, !A minutes after 1. I livening......Elmititites after 2 HAMBURG, MAY 1835. E thelN s E T B A T R E O . T f H H A E m ll ßu S iw Cp s G N R T E IIA T L C O I T 'O TE R R So lE f s r . being requested to publish the Scheme of the approaching Sixty sixth Lottery in the English Papers, and to have Tickets on Sale, with Agents in England, ben. to state that neither can he done, because it is illegal for the English Newspapers to publish Foreign Lottery Schemes, and for any Agents in England to sell Foreign LoCery Tickets. On the other hand, they beg to state, as it is NOT illegal for any person in England to PURCHASE Foreign Lottery Tickets, that any person desirous to purchase, on addressing them by mail, willreceive a full Scheme, and any desirable infor mation on the subject (Gratis), by return of post. 0 N APPROACH of 12th AUGUST, We beg to remind the Public that NO TIME IS TO BE LOST In giving Orders, if they are desired to meet attention, before A RISE IN PRICE. -. Orders, accompanied by 101. notes, directed to us, without delay, may still be attended to at W.. and 2./. fur the balance will be re turned on executing the order, by return of post. HEINE• BROTHERS. Hamburg, 23d June, 1885. P. S. Direct, HEINE BROTHERS, in HAMBURG. The pulcortion of TUN SUN NEWSPAPER commenced this day at 20 minutes past 3 o'clock. if%-. i tid - , '-'• - , 4 , , ( - 4-. ,:. 1,4 ' ..,_.- -..,,, ja e t '.=.,s44 . f s li -- - ..tti0 ,0 4 , :ti-..- , -. - (7 Z.m.--A-,,,.. ' ''''-.-----.', ..,,,. .. g':' OfrrfteT 7 LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 24, 1835. The discussion on the Irish*Church 13111 terminated early this morning by a Ministerial majority of 37—a majority which, whatever may be the case with the House of LordS, effectually disposes of the question in the Commons. The result is the more glorious, inasmuch as the Tories, backed by the Trimmers, had made the most Herculean exertions to frustrate it. PEEL contributed his sophistical elo quence—STaiqt.EY his energy—GRAHAM his intolerance— tald D. JACKSON his " widow's mite" of logic. All the Conservative forces were summoned, from cast, west, north, anti south, and drawn up, in grand parade, on the Opposi; tion Bench ; the twaddler rushed from his club, anti even the sick man from his bed, to swell the number of the Con servative votes ; but, despite this extraordinary show of energy—most creditable had it been exerted in an honest cause-Common-sense asserted her claims—Justice achieved her victory! The debate, though the subject was three night's old, and consequently deficient in novelty, was full of interest and animation. Mr. SHEIL'S speech, in particular, was a master-piece of its kind—full of energy—full of apposite reasoning—not deficient in historical and ecclesiastical re search ; nor, indeed, in any of th i ose high and rare quali ties, of which to be suce4ssful in' these fastidious times, a House of Commons appeal should be made up. The Hon. and Learned Member let fly:a shaft at bigotry which will rankle in its breast to its dying day. We cannot deny ourselves the pleasure of extractin g one passage from his splendid oration, which Is worthy of GRATTAN in his best d ays. It has no tricky antithesis, or glittering metaphor to recommend it. Its great merit i s , th a t i t spr i ngs " warm from the heart, and faithful to her fires." 3,'};e advocates of the Irish ChlirPli, in talking or the amount seelethrge7Caanth' o r i e ie fe s r g to ive the sum v o e u t t i to of a tithe, i. Protestant t e b s e t e a a n u t sum paid* , the Catholic peasantry to the Catholic priest. Give 00 of what fund? Out of their own un controlled, t r e so t il leir priev..4, whi t l ough s t o to:::: spontaneous liberality —o u t of their own pockets, and out of their own hearts—(loud cheers)—proving the success, the triumph of the voluntary principle, the virtue of the priesthood, the gratitude of the people, the noble moral qualities that reside in the the loft recollections associated Irish people. Yes ; I speak it with pride, we maintain our priests in comfort, our hierarchy in respectability, in the Chri4tian mediq 7 Fity that becorpcii them i' tp, The 'i'iOsliiii" Of 94rGO . we raiie we do .711 this, when ! have biioll-• - • ' - m ilw i a ct "F e e n , .ier;e,i.n,,t,aiit.ertolnvPllll:asta:,dows4.:lttohifl Yos'upQrifreosw‘n,rveismosueroseisl,ent linger point to 'I The Paris papers of. ... W • .• ednesday, the whole of which •. • , eceived this morning, contain. no intelligence paupers as we, are TepFeNplycl. t 9 bc, we hale that, unaided by the .1 , i t iveil suilamment, at a jut elevaticao...... . • worth communicatin... The conductor of the Reformaleur Stiite, 3-,41 lY dent Church, how paltry it is of Protest... - .... our an revenues, bolting as it ' ' :e - s that all the-A'rsimst' with its enormous for the Seine Department to three months' imprisonment, to . • '•Aristocracy belon g to it, come nere t making a poor face, and with its coffers replenished Journal was on Tuesday sentenced by the Court of Assizes and a fine of 3,000 francs (being the highest penalty al- This, - we have no doubt, will be the upshot of the busi ness, unless some remedy is speedily applied to the evil. We have reason to believe that the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER is favourable to a reduction of the stamp duty, and we are of opinion that, if this were carried so far as to leave no more than one penny on each paper, the revenue would not suffer, while the present proprietors of newspa pers would have little to complain of, and the privilege of circulation through the Post-office would more than com pensate for any disadvantages to be feared from the dear ness occasioned by the additional penny. We are sorry to perceive that Mr. Alderman WOOD'S Bill for the regulation of public carriages, meets with op position in Committee,- and is likely to be thrown out. Ho nourable Members seem to think that the ruffian who stand behind an omnibus, becomes as mild and inoffensive as a lamb the moment he gets beyond the jurisdiction of the LORD MAYOR, and therefore wish to confine the ope ration of the Bill to the city. Ibis restriction will very materially diminish the benefit which the measure is inten ded and well calculated. to confer upon the public. Much praise is due to Alderman WOOD for his laborious and per severing efforts to remedy an evil so justly complained of by the inhabitants of the metropolis and its vicinity ; and we hope, if he cannot accomplish all he wishes, he will take what he can get,. limiting himself at present to the abate ment of the nuisance in the city, and deferring the sion of his plan to a more propitious season. . • " with the tublic gold, whining and whimpering about the wretched destitution to which it is rethilcd ?—(Lcail cheers. )" If this he not legitimate elociuence, we how not what is. Of an equally striking character is the Hon. and Learned Member's temark, that " the Church never dies, except of pecuniary repletion," which is an aphorism that should last as lour, as the language. Mr. DEVONSHIRE JACKSON fol lowed Mr. SHEIL, and at the close of a speech marked by an uncommon capacity for twaddling, asked with a sneer, " did it become this country to admit a principle which must prove its destruction ; and Ar what purpose Why, merely to raise a miserable and inefficient fund for the purposes of education . 1 " Is it possible that a Member of the Eritish Legislature can be hardy, or stupid, or prejudiced enough, to undervalue the blessings of education ? To allude to it with scorn as a " purpose" not suf . :l:lc:lft; important to justify a reform in the Irish Church ? What is it that is now shaking Europe--the Universe ? Education ! What is that mighty principle which, moving abroad like the Spirit of God oa " the face of the waters," is imparting confidence to the desponding, and help to the distressed ; which is !overthrowing, with earth-quake power, the thrones of des potism, and erecting Constitutional liberty on their ruins ? Education ! But to lower our tone, and come nearer home. What carried Catholic Emancipation ? Education ! What, Reform ? Education ! What struck the fet ters from the limbs of the slave, and bade him stand up erect in all the majesty of manhood ? Educe tion ! What, like the pillar -of fire, that guided Israel through the wilderness, is still shedding -"light on our path, and directing us on our road to con stitutional freedom ? Education ! And is this the " purpose"—this the principle against which Mr. D. JAcicsoN protests, as unworthy of the sacrifice made for it ? Does.he dare to speak thus of a power—a benignant, comprehensive, irresistible power—against which Charles the TENTH, armed with all the bayonets of the Holy ante, was unable to make head ;—which is every where turning night into day, despair into hope, prejudice into toleration ; which is making one vast social family of human:nature ; and to whose gentle ministrations is owing all the happiness we have ever gained—all we can ever ex pect to gain ? If Mr. JACKSON really think thus of edu cation, the sooner he accepts the Chiltern Hundreds . the better ! Such _a man has no business in a Re formed Parliament. He is fit only to twaddle at a tes table of tabbies ; 1 to weep over the good old times with ELDON ;or slaver sentimental politics at ALmAcies. We Must have legislators, not bigots, in the House of Com mons ; men who can rightly appreciate the blessings of edu cation,-not drivellers, who in the pride of superior igno rance, can do nothing but ridicule them. But enough of Mr. JACKSON, who appears to us to make as close an ap proximation to pure and unadulterated intolerance as the imperfect limits of human nature will - allow. Like the bones of the Mammoth, he is the fossil remains of an ex tinct species. Lord MORPETH'S speech was, in every respect, an ad mirable one. It was statistic, straight-forward, and busi ness-like, to a degree that might excite the envy of the most expert matter-of-fact debater in the House. We always knew his Lordship to be a man of fancy, and elegant litera ture, but we had no idea that he could so far control the impulses of -his nature, as to descend to the drudgery of grappling with the minutest and homeliest facts. But he has agreeably disappointed us. His pre. sent close attention to the business-part of oratory convinces us that he has an enlarged and vigorous capacity, not to be daunted by obstacles which an apprehensive, one sided intellect might deem it impossible to overcome. Towards the. close of his speed', his Lordship hinted his fears that the Peers might'throw'out the Bill. They cannot. They dare not. Tbey.may make wry faces at it—sneer at it-,--laugh at it—give it a rough shake here, and a rough shake there—but throw it out, broadly and undisguisedly, they dare not ! They have too much at stake, to venture on such a course ; and they know it. Too many aristocratic privi leges still stand in the way of their opposition. So long as they have appointments for their children in the church—the law —the army—the navy—and the Colonies ;so long as they possess the privilege of figuring on the Pension List—of voting by proxy—and acquiring Legislative wisdom by he reditary right —so long will their Lordships be withheld from throwing down the gauntlet of defiance to the people. We have guarantees for their discretion, if not for their wisdom or liberalitY, in their interests. They are bound down in heavy recognizances to keep 'the peace towards ns. If, however, we be mis taken in our anticipations, and their Lordships really ven ture on the bold task of throwing out the Bill, then, we say, let them look to themselves! The crisis will be one that will demand the exercise of all their resolution and sagacity. We ask nothing from them, but what in justice we are en titled to ask. We desire them to surrender nothing that of right belongs to them. All we demand is, that as we respect their privileges,-so they shall respect ours. If they oppose the Irish Church Bill, what must, of necessity, be the principle of their opposition ? Why, this, that the Establishment is their's, not the nation's ! They may tell us, indeed, that they object to the measure on our behalf; but the very virulence of their hostility will show that it proceeds from interested inotivcs. But we - will not anticipate such a disastrous issue. As citizens, as, Peers, and therefore bound, in a two-fold capacity, to see justice done to both the Throne and the people—their Lordships, we trust, will offer no suicidal opposition to a measure which has for its first object to preserve the institutions of the Mornarchy, by fixing them firmer than ever in the affections of the nation. This was the light in which Mr. WARD, Lord J. RUSSELL, and Mr. O'CONNELL last night regarded the question ; and which they,advocated in a strain of very superior ability. Mr. O'CoiiNELL's speech in particular, was characterized by much force of argument ; and his allusion to Mr. WALTER'S desertion of the Ministerial benches, where he sat the night before, " blooming" alone, " like the last rose in summer," was in the happiest vein of caustic ridi- We suppose that the Hon. Member will now obtain ,e soubriquet of the " Berkshire rose." The subject of unstamped newspapers was brought be fore the House of Commons, last night, by Mr. ROBIN_ SON, who inquired of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL whether any steps had been, or were to be, taken to enforce the law against the parties who were publishing newspapers without stamps. The Learned Gentleman stated in reply,, that, as long as the tax continued, lie was determined that the law should neither be violated nor evaded with im punity. We are happy to find that the Government means to apply itself in earnest to this very important question. If this tax is to be continued, it must be levied with the most rigid impartiality. The Government is bound, by every consideration of policy as well as justice, to protect those who obey the law against those who break it. The Proprietors of Newspapers invested their capital in the confidence that the law would be fairly executed—that all who published newspapers would be subject to the same treatment, without distinction of class or respect of persons. Yet, bow stands the fact ? Simply thus. The proprietors of ee:tain news papers are charged a stamp duty of above fifty per cent. on the price of every paper they issue ; the proprietb rs of i certain others—nothing. It is almost superfl o p o i nt out the necessary result of such - a state of thinerS. No one will be fool enough to buy the stamped article, when he can ;et the same. article so much cheaper without a stamp. The . ho. nour of contributing to the revenue is not yet so highly es timated in this country, as to produce such a degree of self-devotion. We have said the same article, because those who refuse to stamp their papers, do not hesitate to transfer to their columns the intelligence which has been furnished to the stamped newspaper at great expence. By this means the very capital of the fair dealer is converted into the instrument of his destruction. Will the fair dealer long submit to such a system as this ? Assuredly he will not—and he ought not. He will say to the CRANCELUOR of the EXCHEQUER " Either put all on an equal footing by abolishing the tax, or protect me against the smuggler. If you will not do this, I must smuggle in self-defence. I will publish without a stamp, and set you at defiance."_ cule. lowed by law), for publish:ng an article which attributed the late riots, or rather street-!;raw!::, at Porte St. Martin, to spies, police, and other hired tools of the Go‘eiernent• 'I he Editor in person acted as Gounsel for the responsible publisher. Various accounts are given, in most of the papers, of the recent defeat of the French, under TnEzEt., at Oran, in Algiers. The number of the killed and wounded differs in n i respect from the statement which appeared in The Situ of yesterday. A letter from Cadiz of July 1, says that the Ex-Colonel Vincent Mateors, a partizan of Djn Carlos, bad just been arrested and conveyed to Algesiras. He had about him seve ral im:.:ortant papers, and the order ‘vhich he had received from the Carlist, junta to excite en insurrection in the South of Spain. He in vain offered 1,000 piasters to be suffered to escape. The Carlo-Miguelite quarter at Gibralter is filled ‘‘ith consternation by this arrest and some others which have been effected in the south of Spain. The accounts from Tou lon received at Marseilles on the 16th, were rather better, and at Marseilles itself, the number of deaths by Cholera had de creased to 19 ; but 142 passports were signed on the 15th. At Nice, on the 13th, there were 13 cases of cholera." FIIb:NcH Fus JULY 22. Five p:r Cents., 1( Of. 10e. se. lee. Four per Ceni,., 99f. 25e. Three per ('cuts., 70f. 15e. 10e. Bank Actioti4, 2,05`f Boote dv Naples, 07f. 5 1 c. 45e. 4ne. 25c, Raman Five per, Cents., 101 1007 c, 10k, Ilcate d'Espagne, nve per Cent', 41. 11 , ente Thre, per .27 27 1, , ; 27. • Royal Spanish Loan, 44 • iC ,l t , • Pet. d' l,l, l l agne, . P ; we per Cent 42 42!‘14 Ni 42. Belgian Loan, live Pe'„ cents 1004. Par. iiguese Loan. tve cr (tents , '144. Portuguese IZ:..n, Three pa* Cents, Cl. llait:int 3SOf. 'EXCIIAM;Li ON LOND.N. month, paper, —s* ntoncy, 25e. 47,t4e. Tirce months, - paper, ‘2.5:1 35c . ; mooey, 25i. 3'&k,e QUARTER TO FOUR. Five per Cents., -1091. Three per C ents., 79 f . 15c. ; Five per Cents. Spanish,l 42 ; Threo, per Cents., Spanish, 27 ; Cortes, 41; Coupons, 23+; Guebhards, —; Differ6s, 17;1 ; New Loan, 52; Definitives, —; Certificates, —; Actives, 501; Passives, 141; Ducats, 97 40 ' • Romans, 101 ; B e l g i ans, 101; Pedros, —; Mi gue l s , --;; Dutch,— ; Haytian, 386. ; Brabant Bank, 13+. _ tic German and Brussels Papers received this morn-' ing, bring no advices of importance, with the exception of a rumour current in Hamburg, that the Cabinets of Vienna and Berlin are about to recognize DON CArmos as the legitimate Sovereign of Spain. Count ALcAntA, the agent of DON CARLOS, has had daily conferences, often for hours together, with Prince METTERNICH, at Sehonbruni. This circumstance, and the very cordial manner in which the COUNT is always received,. coupled with th e f act , t h at the diplomatic communications with the QUEEN'S Government are almost entirely broken off, is of no small importance. The same accounts say, that the Agent is most graciously treated by se ve ral members of the Imperial family, and especially that he has had some conferences with the ARCHDUKE, who, it is supposed, will go to Kalisch. HAMBURG BORSEN HA LLE, JULY 21. FOREIGN FUNDS. • Bills. Money. Austrian Dlctalliques, 5 per cen t . Ditto ditto 4 per cent. , 10 - 102 Ditto Bank Shares lam Anglo-Russian Loan % Ditto, 5 per ce n t Paper Inscription, 8 p er cent lOO 99% 77!4 litisliian Inscription, H ope and Co., Ott and 4th Series 99 98% Portuguese Regency Bonds. 5 per cent 875 87Y, Ditto, 3 per cent 59t4 Si Dutch 2, v per Cents. Ditto 5 per Cent s , — Polish Bond s , 3 percents. 139 A nglo-Danish Loan, 3 per cents 74% Norwegian Loan of 1934, 4 p, r cents. Spanish, in piast res , 3 per Cents 25K, 25 Ditto 4 per Cent. Cot Ws Loan, 5 per C en t. . EXCHANGES ON LONDON. Hamatatn, JULY 21._13 11 ; two months, 1310. CHRISTIANIA, JULY IL — Three7months, 5 8. LEIPSIC, JULY 14, Two months, a 16. STocictioLm, JULY 10. —Two months,. 122. —Hamburg Papers,' July 21. PARLIAMENTARY SUMMARY. In the LORDS last night the business was limited to the pre senting of two Petitions. In the COMMONS, after several clauses of the Public Car iage (Metropolitan) Bill had been agreed to in Cominittee, its further progress was postponed- over to next Session. The Clandestine Marriages (Ireland) Bill was agreed:to in Committee, with some verbal amendments, and the Report was ordered to be brought up this day. The Weights and Mea sures Bill was considered in Committee. An amendrnent of Mr. ESTCOURT, that all the portion of the clause relative to the stamping of wei g ht s , an d t h e regulation of the fees for stamping Ihm, be omitted, was carried, on a division, by a majority of 33 against 32. The House thcu resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave. to sit again. The House went pro forma into Committee-i on the Election Expences Bill, which was ordered to be printed with alterations, and read a third time on Wednesday next. - In the evening sitting the Carlow Election Petition was discharged for want of the requisite securities. 'Mr. SPARROW, one of the paities in custody for misconduct connected with the Ipswich Election, was brought to the Bar, reprimanded by the SPEAKER, and discharged, on payment of the fees. A Petition was presented from some inhabitants of Chiches ter, respecting the payment of costs, by aii Oozier on the Treasury to the Clerk of the Peace, in a a prOsecution against the Brighton Guardian. Mr. Hums: presented a petition respecting the intercourse and navigation between England and India. On the qUestion of the unstamped press the ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, in reply to some judicious remarks made by Mr. ROBINSON, that he had taken measures to cause the law to be respected ; and as long as the present Newspaper -Stamp Act remained, he was determined to put it in execution against all offenders. Mr. HUME gave notice that on Friday next, if the evidence of the, Committee should be then published, he should call the attention of the House to the establishment of Orange Lodges in the Army, and propose certain resolutions on the subject. The ATTORNEY. GENERAL obtained leave to bring in a Bill to place Sheriffs of cities on the same footing with Sheriffs of counties—that the same oaths should be required of both. The motion for compensation to Mr. BUCKINGHAM for the suppression of his paper by the Boat India Company was withdrawn. The adjourned debate -on the Irish Church Establishment Bill was then resumed, and after a discussion of which it were useless to at tempt an ana lysis, since its stirring importance will cause the report of it in another part of our paper to be universally Teed, the House di vided. The numbers were--For the amendment of Sir R. PEEL, 282 ; against it, 319. Majority in favour of Ministers, 37. The House then went into I,)ommitte proforma, and was adjourned at half-past 3. OUSE OF LORD (THIS DAY.) Earl SHAFTESnuar Lord BROUGHAM, and Lord LYNDHURST, sat this morning to hear appeals. SMALL V. ATTWOOD. The arguments in this appeal were resumed this morning; they have already occupied 16 days, and in answer to a question from Lord Brougham, Counsel stated that the cause could not be brought to a conclusion under 11 or 12 days more. The parties therefore wished that it should be postponed until next Sessions or proceeded with de diem in dies. Lord Bizouctiam said the House would sit four days in one week and three days in the other until the cause was concluded. SHIPPING.--(THIS DAY.) FROM LLOYD'S. DEAL, Ju Ly - 23. —Wind E. N. E. , moderate.—Sailed this morn ing for the River, the Centurion, Heppinstall, , from Miramichi ; Rochester,' —, from Oporto; Cenubia, Ward, from Exeter. Arrived from the River, and sailed, the Alexander, Dallas, from Para. PORTSMOUTH, JULY 23.—Wina E., fine. PLYMOUTH, J uvir '22. —Wind E., strong.—Arrivcd the Toronto, Collins, from Montreal ; and Aurora, Valctunen, from Mcwd. FA Lazourn, JULY t!2.—Wind E., strong breezes and squally.— Arrived the Lempre Laste sso , from Geno a . A rr i ve d e lf , t h e Hopewell, .Parents, from JaMaica ; Bolivar, Richards, from Quebec. ABERDEEN, JULY 21.—Arrired the Herald, Guldie, from Sa vannah. THE MARKETS-(THIS DAY.) CORN EXCHANGE. The supply of Wheat to our market this week is good, and of other Grain moderate. The Wheat trade has been very heavy, and last day's rates have fallen full Is. per quarter for all descrip tions. Barley, Beans, and Pease unaltered. Oats find buyers slowly at our last rates. Flour dull and top price unvaried. ItIV I.S. English Irish Foreign Wlic!tt 7,lloqrs Baricy. o:,ts. I Flour. qrs qrs : 4,070 iack I AO I --- THE FUNDS. 7 (THIS DAY.) CITY, - TWELVE O'CLOCK. Our arrivals this morning are one French and one Ostend mail ; there are 'no ship-letters, consequently there is a _great dearth of information in the City. Our Loan Contractors are still anxiously waiting for official notice from Government respecting the West India Loan. • The debate last night in the House of Commons on the Irish Church question, entirely occupies the attention of the public and the City politicians. It is considered by some that the majority of 37 for Ministers is small ; others say it is as much as could be ez peeted—at all events Ministers have achieved a victory. Consols, which left • off yesterday f‘t 90 y for the Arneunt, opened at the same price this morning, with scarcely a bargain doing to the present hour. Exchequer Bills 29 31 ; India Bonds 10 1 ; ];aril; Stock 215 2161 1 ; India Stock 255 2361. In the Foreign Market, Spanish, which left off yesterday with an improvement, is again buoyant. Spanish closed at 511 52i, at present 52i • Spanish Scrip left cff S - 74,-now dis ; Portu guese Bonds op en ed at the price they kft oif yesterday, 914 9i; 'Three per Cents. 601 61 ; Colombian:364 57:7; Mexica n 361 ; Dutch 21 per C e nt s . ma ; ditto 5 per Cents. 1011 HALF- PAST ONE_ Consols have continued during the morning at 90i 1 1 for the Ae. count, with little or n0th.1 . . - ..r doing. Exchequer M 215 ' 1 " 29 317; India Bonds, 10 12 ; Bank Stcck, In the Foreign Market Spanish Bonds have recc.led since the. morning from 64 to 511- ; Spanish Scrip from 71 to 8 disc. ; Portuguese B o nd s r ema i n s t ea d y at 6 0 1 6t ; Columbian, 361 37/ ; Mexican, 361 371 ; Dutch 21 per. Ccnts. 5.1• . TIIREE 'O'CLOCK.- Consols for Account, poi it. London: Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of Nc. 112, Strand, at The Sigh Office, No. 112, Strand, in the county of Middlesex. ~~ Y ~_ ~.. ~` ~; atm re t tat ee f lin Ire Cai, AL 10 To lua t;el he: