The Sun. — London, England, 1805-05-11 00:00:00

. . , . Thlllute . lie linty , attic to conliler that pan s or . the Nob le Baron's argtiment i , s which hi h a d 313 that he ' could nut see any thing— in the. present time to render it' inetpedient• to grant the Prayer of the Petition. 'As to this point he viewed the sehj:•6l so diDoently from ... ::.e Iqoble Lor . d .. , that h e thou lie the circumstances peculiarly u n f it : Vt:ta,let.lue, grantin g l to so t:he orrsoi a i s i , ro a () a t il t s : 0 60 .v :hanged - since 1 from incon. siste ) ne ' l) ,1C wilt) was disposea to - support the TheastoYe ' a n t Y t ' ll ' a t i,perit n i if he should oppo se it :it!! the preterit i nstance . Ilere he ' begged le ave toco tire attenti on o f their Lordships to the period ot- . t h e P teed) Revolution, an,., the principles upon:wllll,e lastt i t 11 'd ht'en effeaett and car r i e d on t ill w i t h in t swear three years, which hail changed the opinions of people with respeff. to religious establishmen . ts. It Was eliterial to ob s e rve , t h at w h in the questi on Ira first brew ht forw ar d w ar d , the cause w as t h at o f t a Rt ligiantga inst A theism. But they had since seen it than e in tha t St a t e which hto had invol v ed E uro p e 4 ' l "V arid desolation. They had seen an ext remel3 .e e ill'etacY giv e p l ace to must arbitrary power, an d 9 Person possessing that: arbitrary power reconciling , himself with the Pope, in order to s u pp ort ; an d eablish with him a close, and intimate connexion. 'Whoever luokt-a to the state of Europe—.whoevelr was of opini on t h at the measures'. of our an cestors were wire and politic—whoever coo s id ere d, that all C ' t ht'lie &trope, w i t h the exception of the domt. ' 19 , 4 of A U K ir i a, was in subjection .to France—, "'Netter looked to the state of the Country, or. ; Ole estr considered tie nature of the :connexion, t'..'weseolow it might be fixed, bet ween the Catho., "" L eland and the Por t Inuit he c o nvin c ed! t h at tl'ltie "v - tt was a moment more unfavour a bl e fo r t h e ; r t 'i nc i `‘ j e talioe of the question. On every tv,und far 1, )'' t reasnn this could rot be a proper . cline . - 110,01 forward such a claim. : They s h ou ld Wllii I° et:':Vir s will l e the result of the contest in Ivilich we itte'iteredged ; ' and those who do not g h ' 'Le full extent of thioking that the measure 1 " 0 6 , 4 9 not be granted, should feel that this was• 1 11 . i tne 1 1 01)4 bane :for bringing it forward. 'lad ia the outset staied, that by the I\ ' 4 ?- 10 a, they ive..c. Icalled on to make 'an alteration in 11,e fandoeental Laws of the Country ; and it was' the fluty ut thnse who called on them to make tha!, I'('rg t i 44 ten'it I , to slim some some prandial benefit that would fsom it. H e did not believe ' that its et i,C4:ti as to th e toes of the people, 'would be as any nt "gs and this, even th 4 ihe t. " 111; ''' '' is lug., 5,10u,....fr,v,,, ~oxh, e°i '" n t " it on the ground of priocipie or taW, an V2Utll t ti I I . ? 4 oaliCien, I.,bicttjun t) it. He felt !hat v ir i , itt „'",,, l ?„, 6 nelit to atr w indiiii&ials, without an ,. r.kircal advantage t. , ti,t tnaksfrat . the expellee I/ t the law b . In chi, l ie I,:aso , -.1 upon natutal pre. 41'16, but there Wcre gr'! , " auth or i t ies which . l e ILigll r re f er ' to. , -i n / 7 ,8 a Coosnsittee o f e4th H ouse of the Irili Parliament had been ao- P°inlcd ' ai 'd ' 1, 4 had deemed it expedient to acre; a Ceeditiurvt Imition iki such individuals as ghoul( V i e a full eAse:.ston of ail they knew. lie dot e t rnt'ae to a l lude here to an individual: who had en represented as a i,eivii, o f honourable ;')rinet- Plo : . L,Lhara4,.ri and talents, but Who, by his own i,tf"D'vledgmenr, ifterwards Was found to be an 1T.111'4111 traitor. He should allude to Inners of his ii'"land i L ' who were superior to .hirn in wen" llite,, he meant Dr. MsNevin, and Mr. a (. 4, 4144 tithlis Emmet, the forner 4 whom was that ailloliC, thOttgli the Noble Baron hail stated amen . 11 ' er C . hart hten none . of that persuasion 1i,,„, 4 ". the leaders of the kebelliati. Lord ea.t.""souity 'here read a passage from the exami-_ to l ' t) ti rl , ' lt , these G!ntlemen, to shew that they had in t tlli-e.e."l" ()I Making , any 'religious establishment 1 . ) a 1 sYettt.nt a, revolution; and that thee:melon i.,a - r i e ' ' e „` li(l not.' in their tiPinion, care a . feather for , in ~":',"l'.lll:e4ipatiort;Or Parliamentary Rtforris,brit ty t i i 4l4 t a s the lit ter.rnight lead to the abafition of sv u t i,l' Prom this ha argued,, that the measure ta,°-.lnt afroll any convenience or advantage to the tit er (1 r : t he People at all. The Noble Manila said, 1, 1 , - ; t "eY would part with but little in retiring the lcii, j ' A , t er hilt that the Catholics would gain much. .47 w iltsle view of the question was totally different. !hey of ,opinion, that in granting the' measure 'l,„' w ntsla give little, hut part with a great deal. lntisTwould. give that Ss which not enriches them, mainlP*" 44 po6l' indeed." Fie believed that what eiotiiesi' to be given was all'; becau , e, if given, it allow, ' iriake :them the State. , IIe: was willing to a t , thern any thirig tooter the State. It had been rnt?ti thin what remained to be given was not s vo l' uli ; I)4 ` a 'nnitt.ng that, were they'sore that it lerni a, not lead, if 'granted, to other demands ? .What sn ve tn ; e'l was the whole power,: jurisdictio n , and o,r,q3ntY of the Empire. fie would ask their ligi'''''ll, whether they thought the Roman Cacho me w ould he satittiett with this measure, or whether ti t ,, Y , l 4 ';'d be _certain that nothing further would be refuge 'which it might be thought expedient 10 i l i erit i 'it it lieriad when it would he more ineonire. diet'k it th ° i ,esist such an application ? ' He admitted i n ~,,,e,,Titilso under conSideration was dray‘n 14 i„iin.'lerate term s. in general. But it seemcd 'Wi t h it,ltt.? th at the Catholics were not content atui th.ic teats which they were obliged to take, to t,kt,they were the only class of subjefts obliged to 0; t he m. Ile WaS not disposed 'to argue the po. %hew that those tests, but mentioned this to 1 4)m., ult this W. 14 not the end of their claims. Their . .sni ) I . then ~1 should be iltewn the cenclusiun to whic h . ii netnands tended. In this they might be assisted Y a little 1v11,4 hi appeai to history. In the year 1 793, ith„111,113, Noble Friend (Lord WastmottLAKo)• 'lr t i, olt ;'e !esv, in his place, was Lord Lieutenant of st ark d, ' that presented a Petition, in Which they I' 4 , ','„ t theY wauld be tiatisfiett with the eke. aria th",clinlN anti Unt tar two other- Ptivilf9" ' v i 4 iled i:, h i ' annle difili tece ' of opinion had .pre. 1 1 : 1 ,„ I 'Ptti t i ' et4n d c'n the sunket,' all tlie prayers.of 'u'ed a ll :An,had peen granted. 00 ivh;ch they pre: le b e for "ntests of thanks to the Lor&Lieutenatir., they .4t4bVie4ardell. 4) His Majesty, in the end of which e* l 4 i4d " i th " to have been the :first step, anti v'ith ford tiler 4 hope, that itWould be "followed up Platofin, " corne t ' ' . e ,ssiono, It was -important Were toW. wl Person• '`" 01 . 1 Y be asked hcru.aitt.r,.— rriittldt,i wag --$ were of op nion tti'at what was . Ile. it l' rnieat " t O, silt it Was his ti.eirtion that !sh ed ~" t"e nutwOrie Of the' e srahlishmentrand he 11 the miqi4 t heir L , • :. ' : Y shouldl d 'hlls to fi t ,,At fur it, because sA've It Of, they would have 1p•fi4111 afterwards at a aisai vantage, whertthey. *cilia have tomake a stand against future'deiriands. He bleed to see his way in What he .granted, and thoi it w as osefol to those to whom it was to be granted. The History of -Ireland awarded a ntinaber - of, insfancea of loose and general - concessions but in saking this, he acknowledged that the greater part :of, the cOO. cessions had been itisely'and. properly. Made. .1-1 e was no friend to the syetern that.had previously pre., veiled, which he thought extretely oppressive and severe. Nothing but the. -roost pressing necessity could jUstify . such a system. It was' remarkable that up to the periods between treo and t7BO, from the Revolution, whilst that system was in force, -that thane there was a new.family on the Throne, find two formible Rebellions had taken place in 'Great Britain, the Irish Catholics had re. twitted tranquil,- anti taat since. the system of con cession had. been idoeted, disturbances had taken plage. The Noble Baron had said, that the con. cessions had been gradual, and that one cericessioo had led to another as. a proof of:the WisdoM of such a syslem. But though a friend to- coneession,, he did not, approVe of such a is ruiner of granting it, nor of the time. A saeady system of policy would afford the best chance of.-securing the ;tranquillity of any Country, but particularly of - Ireland. This was the principle' Upon • every wise Sys. tern of Government ought to be regulated. It might, be thought' that a Government should 'feel -an . indifference with respe& to any Religion : but that was a .charatter which did nut belong to the Go. e"ernmeot - of this Country, nor to that of any: free State.. With the exception ofone or two instances, :he Magistracy were uniformly of the Est aldidled Re. ligion of theStete. In the antient Republic of At balsa': the Magi-orates ,weee obitged to -take an Oath to observe the n Rites'of the State. - 'l! , e same war-the case at Rome. I . t.had been in Fiollatid,. whose Government resembled a mixed Monarchy ; and it had also beer the case in. Poland, the Go. I , ernUl ' eni. of which - had been ettually a mixed Monaechy. In the Cantons 'of Swilierland also, whether • Protestant or Nosh, . the Maoi s t-rates were were necessarily 'it" the State Religion. It had: also been the opinion of that truly great man, who had delivered us .froro oppreasion, arid slavery, that the Magistracy of a Country should be of the reli giott est ,blr red to it. - This then had.beer) the prin. cip;e: of all free. countries.. A, to the eXeeptions, the Frea.cli Republic no hunger eitisted, anti- the des. putic Government that has succeeded ha's re.es. tablicd oe ratigion of the State. :The Anher in. ,ranee ‘4,314 of far more ,importance, as 'existing in the United States America. But from all he could learn f%om t. '..se who had travelled, and were: well acquat'otti 'with that country, the success 'of the experim nt had nor been,such as to induce a new State to imitate such a model. All who had travelled through. that country ropreiented the People ,as she ,eing a general indifference 'to reli. gion, their'worship negleCted, and their. places.of oevotion deserted. The question in the • present case was not whether they should support- their old system, ben whether they should adopt innovations and new systems. He' had set out with statiog„ that there was no law rrpetual, as the're must be ono-where residing a power to alter or modify, hut that there were.certain laws fundamental in their nature, and so blended with the vital interests of the country, that it would be perilous to interfere with them. The Chinch Establishment was a fundamen. tal law of clue State. If the Chureh was proteEled -by the State, the State owed Much-to the 'Church. When in the' reign 'of Charles I. the Church was attacked, the oveithrOw of the CroWn`soon follow.. ed. At the Restoration in r 660, the Church was re.established with the Monarchy ; so that they had fallen and risen together. When loyalty was. at its highest pitch the Church had op'posed the -indulgences. At the Revolutioti, the Whigs could nor bane accomplished their ohjeti without the co.operatitm of the Church. In supporting these principles, hediti not support the principlet of any of their ancient parties, but the principles upon which their Liberties and their Constitution had been'founded. The Minion of the Noble Ba. ron would go to the repeal of the Coiporation if agreed to, would go to the repeal of the Test AEI, of the Bill of Rights, and of the Mt of Sets tlement 'in sonic of its- most important particulars. It- might_ be' said, that .there was. a - difference be. tween the Laws existing in Ireland, and the Liws' existing in this Country ;. but whether that - differ. ence were material or not, the - Ml . of Union did not leave them at liberty to repeal any' of those ACIs passed in the independent Parliament of Ireland, without some inconvenience from their continuing . in force should first be proved. He called on their Lordships, therefore, to cherish those. Laws under which they had flourished ; to cling aca that sys. tern which lied made them what they are,- and enabled them to -enjoy." liberty, honour, wealth, independence, and property, beyond what any country in the woild could blast of. He called upon thent to rise or fall with- their Laws, but not to he' the first. themselves to give them the fatal blow ; to an as a body, the faithful guardians of the Constitution, and to form'a- steady determi. nation to transmit unimpaired to their posterity what they had received .from their forefathers. The Motion of the Noble Baron called on'them to abrogate those LAWS which would lead to the over. throw of the Established Religion. Feeling, there. fore, that no advantage would be derived from the concession, he should resist such a Motion ; and he could not think with the Noble Lord, that no per. son could vote against it in the present instance but one who - was determined to oppose it at 'all times for if any Noble Lord should think that this was not a fevourable or a proper moment for bringing for. ward such a Motion, he .might, without any incon. siatency, vote against it. - The Dyke of CUMBERLAND spoke nearly as follows a—After the very able manner in which my Noble Friend (the Secretary of State) has explained to this House-reasons which, I trust, wily induce you to- rejea the proposal of the Noble Lord, it will nut lie necessary for me to enter dif. Justly into this question. But when -I- relleft on what wete the circumstances which brought our 'Felony to the Throne, and when I consider wharfs the objefl of the Petition on your Table, iris ito. ,possible for me to remain totally silent. With-re open to the cirWitietancea whichbrought our family to the . British Throne, your tortiships know that they originated in the:Revolution. The great objet ref that Revolution was to secure die R.cligion and Liberties ,of these Realms. These objects R were confirmed by the Act of Settlenient, by the,Peela, ration o f Rights, by the, getli, of Supremacy and Ahjuration, end by.the,Succeision to the Crown in the Protestanteline. To maintain and uphold all these,.otir family.wae called to the . Throne.• And whateeer can militate with these principles, in the remetest degree; it is toy beutelen duty, as a mem. her of that family, and as a **Ober of your Lord., ships'- floos•e, to restate; For this purpose . , T must ask, Whet is the objed of that Petition ? It is to enable the Catholics .io hold offices of trust and power in the State.. Was it not to opppose such a system that the Revolution originated ? Was, it not. the very life and soul ofthat 'memorable trans_ . aftion to secure , the rights of Church and State,? — 'Are Weahen, my Lertis, going to undo all that the Revolution has dole ? _Bear in mind, my Lords, the.scenes that, preceded the Revolution ; they are, strong proofs chat the participetioo,of equal power . by Catholics and Protestants, is a thing inconya. tilde, with the principles of both. Are yotanot already convinced, by fads and history, that it is, i'mpteisitele for Protestants and Catholics to agree in the ,administration of political power ? Woat then will follow, if the Catholics be admitted to the great. offices- of truss• ? Yon-will , soon see what,. thank god, , till now we have only reet t ; we shall. experience the same c. o tttision end, bloodihed which stained l it, the eeign4 from Mary, who be. . .gan with. granting tlicrri tt dispensing power to hold 'offices of Stair, e3owet to James; who ended :With the diepersinge. trivet in their favour. He hurled himself fioin his throne by Conferring on them, offices p 1 trust and power, which afterwards drew &yin on them all the weight of penal laws ; I a t njusiifiecl, therefore, in c including; that ehere can be rtoehoan mare fraught with Mischief. to King and Sabjefts conferred than thet prayed , for in ,ehis. Petitione Not only, „however, , the, awful .eape., rience of p: tst times; -hut the e kitiper cf the present' times call upon , us to ,pause,• ofted- to listen to the voice of the:two great Capitals. or the ,Empire, ,and of:different Counties in the Voited I;:ingtlem, against_. this-Petition. , We know, iny,Lotils, what are the feelings andesentitnents.of this.NaLion with resped to tlie causesernd consequenc6Seel the Revolution. — The memoryeof it is leepteelive daily by the most solemn ads when men:are ealled.to undertake. public and .corporate fundione. His Majesty's Subjeds on -such oceasiens sweat to presetve his .stt.,Fiemacy is ecelesiastieal and eivilanatters. Does. that Peer. tioo acknowledge that supremacy in ecelesiateical matters ? No I If then you - cirri:rider. the power of the State to those who eeny that ,auptemacy, you do nut meitatain that supremacy, you virtually .sue. tender it. Far be it :from ate, my Lords, to !hackle or; fetter the cnneciettees.olany men; but equally..far be it from me thiwn,, by rash in. novition, any of the venerable •pillars of the Con. stitution. .All thst cyan be given .consistently with reason and conscience I am prompt to give. But the Conatitutien 1 c•innut, date not, WILL NOT give. ; 1- must „and sueoert, : with the last effort of my nature -the establishment in Church and' ,. Seate i eee the great step. by. which the House -of Brunswick ascended ..that 'Throne. earl SP c R said, if he thought for a moment that the Motion'of Noble Friend was likely itt the remotest ,degree to ;tijure the Church or State, be assured the HOOSe that there was not a men in the Country who woehl nut only benore unwilling to support it, hut who would more strenueuely oppose it than himself. If he thought that it went to in: validate the principles , on which the Brunswick Fa. mile cam' to and.. now pessested the 'lt.rone, the idea wettlil he abhorrent to hie feelings ;. but the manner in which his Noble Friend had opened the Speech with which lie prefaced it, completely ob. viated any such apprehensions. He egreed with his Noble Friend, and the Neble Secretary of'State who folleiwest him, in the propriety of discussing this important questian with perfetl moderation and temper; but insisted, that this rule of conduit had been infringed by the Noble Secretary'hitosell, who attributed to his Noble Friend, and to the Yeti. tion of the Catholics of Ireland, sentiments of tie. fiance and -menace which. the fad did not justify, The Noble Lord had endeavdured to prove, that the Roman 'Catholic's of. Ireland paid. allegiance to a Foreign. Power. Ile wished tweak the Noble Lord where' lie discovered this ? It was per. fatly new to him: Ile knew that they consi, 'demi the Pope as their Spiritual Head, hut he was. pretty, well aspired that they did not recognise in him a Civil Governor. The published opinions of some of the most learned men among the Roman Catholics diiclaimed that on which, to give a de. lusive weight to his argument, the Noble Secretary dwelt with such emphasis. If •the fad were true, however, if it were incompatible with the safety of the Church and State to allow the Catholics any Civil'Poweri why did not the Noble Lard vote for . the Committee, not for the purpose of • granting to the' Cathares additional immunities, but .to repeal those which _they had , alreadyreceived in the pro.' sent reign, and which, if the arguments of the Neble Secretary. were good fur any 'thing, teemed with danger to the'Country. The Noble Lord asserted, that Were any concession had been made to the Ca. thvlics of Ireland, 'they were perfedirquiet, but that concession seemed to be the, signal w tth them of tut. bulence. This .was not so. • It 'had been unequivo. sally proved diet' the late Rebellions arose entire. ly from politiCal causes, and had nothing whatever to do with religious subjeets. " Bur (says the Noble Lord) if y o u grant this, you will be pressed to grant snore." Well ! be it so ; if the grounds of any. additieoal grants that might be required Were as good as those of The present, they ought to,'be allowed, and he could not• admit the possibility of what the Noble Secretary seemed to wish .to sinuate, that the most remote wish would ever be expressed' for the establishment of a Catlio. lie Church; or for allowing the Crown to be held by any btit a Protestant Prince. These, indeed, would be infringements on the fundamental LiMS of the .Constitution which he .would be as eager as. the Noble :Leta to oppose. -rbe. Noble Lord ;had laid great,stress'on the material change. which he declared had taken' place since t 8o t, in the cepsideration of all, sulyj t. , What had that et , . • 4 , 4; . Change teen Thit ret t el menced the support or. the Catholic itellgimi; 0;14 orlsequentlythit their ir.flucnce over the prof.r.s4r)rt of it in circiyNation would htt ;Fpi , hi; part, he not disposed to attribute, tribe; to &heir ihtrigue4 ; allowing them the fulllorce with which tit; rabic Lord had eL)ihe4 , t h em , he would .1.5 i; WlLit WCre the best ineitis 6 render futile aV attempts of the french ,to airail, themselv.es of : thii pottier of rifiking an impression . on Ireland ? The ans Wet Was plain i t was, .hy , vi , c l 4-timed concession of indisputable tights to cnoc4idie the affeetions of theVeopte . ni p Itelanti;. and thus to unite the whole Kingdom in the deteiMination to resist; 'to the utmost of pciwet; the desperate attacks of their common ffneniy. Lord sibmouri, at the, same time that he was aware of the propriety of discussing this ~nbject with the utmost temper, could not avoid avowing his sentiments openly upon it. Though he was ready to go the whole length of toleration as Atli. one, he was 1.) , ` no means ivilling to accede to the prayer of the Petition, as it had been txphinett by the Noble Lord. He had lit4ined to that Noble Lord with the admiration which his won:mat - id ta. lents always cmmsua.lded ; hut he had not lidtkNlctt to him with conviction—he !Lid et ttn iiitenld to hlai with etstunisiintert at the dot - trims he promol, l . At the time whtri he hail the honput of et:,l2!-, the tame Cabinet with !he Noble Loll, h 4 leded, that th Noble Lard Lad iirorhij• resisted all . i ntv ,v at iuti—an.l to hi:exertiqns, and rho s with whom he was aotottitteait in die Coti..try Itac been i.. , 3Atet4 for tho . satist.- anti confidenca wttien they tit;tived from the rci ,e.iiott of the don of the Protestant Dissenters iti 1790. Ha . pressed on those who had resiste t ;ttis min,); :.r h i tt im in 1;9 0 , the :Itfliculcy tvive,!, they w0t4.1 a 1 in CORSI!. ("nal support ing the pre 7,,t measure, cilich wad of so much greater weight a A ilnportance. one was less disposed than hituvlt to questi,ln th , e, charmer' of the great body of CstholiCs in ir•laml; ,he gave the utmost credit to °lt'd for the, sincerity of their professions, but he owned th4tibotls rut own,honqur and for the safety of the Co . t.r'ltry, lye 'wooll be unwilling to.Oace them iii 1i situation _ . in which, howeyer they might have been preifi. misly well-disposed, they might be induced, by what they would conceive the voice of duty, to aa iii a way that must be highly detrimental tea:the peace of the Empire. The °bled of the Petition 'was stated by the Noble Lord to be l'oleretion, but it data been termed li:minciPation: The Noble .Lord, however, in his speech, had' dine • ample justice to Parliament, by preying how, mank, ditabilitiee tinder which the d Catholics of Irelan laboured before mm the coencement of the reign, of IN present Majesty had been done away sinCe, iliac taerimi. The Petitioners prayed that they alight be allowed to share in the Lgiskature; and piwer drilling the highst Ofliees i t the S:atc. W,s this mere l y E mat , c i vat i ? No, the term Emancipittion was only used as 3 ovisk; it was interi,l,tti to embed:. the feelings and excite the hopes of the IriSit, f u r t he purpose, of obtaining, 'tinder that name,, 42eitteealed objeo. The Noble Btron had complained loudly of ell the measures of perkeotion, as he called them, :tgaitist the Roman catti:Ates, 01' Which Coast ftgain.A which the present retitled was direded were the only tcnisin,. The history or the Country Iwt . , , tc the Revohtti.m roily jt.ititittl these amp:ores, - which however r,:v,iltiv(,); they intiy he to f feel ing of tie pr-sent day, werc the prwiliftett by a crut:l erri rig•lrotis t4Ol/Tit went into an eitaminittton of ri por. hiitory, and a , vtit pat ticuindy on the in irtyrclitin in theretgri of Aary, and in the cage of jimes H. Who, ,itter sworn to mainsails the ,estant• EitaLlishoient, broke hissolethn gagt-arent; and filled ail the InAlt . officesof St ate w i t h 'Papists. On a teview of ail the circumstances at tending that periOil, he contended that the ptecau. tionary measures 'adopted by Jur ancestors were • Wise and necessary. To come to the questism, ther or.not, at the presenr time, it was expedient to grant sto the Catholics what they requested, he con. iessed that he would never he accessary to enabling a Catholic to keep the conscience, of the King, anti to dispuie of ecclesiastical benefices as pleasure, while he denied the King's supremacy,. and al. rowed the supremacy of a Foreign Power, a denial and a sub Mission which . not all the Noble Lord's talents, great as they were, could palliate, Withou allntling.to any of those rites which were the sub. jt4t of vulgar denunciation, he would ask the House whether it would be prudent to allow of such power. ful engines' being, freely set in motion as excom• munication and auricular confession.' Jr had been stated by the best authority that Consistory Courts bad been establishedby the Catholics in most of the dioceses iq Ireland—a Council of Cardinal.s, exer. , , citing power over ecciesiasticat matters, Was regu. larly held in Raw, and there could be little doubt that a constant communication exis , ed between them? . The ostensible object c . .t . this Petition was objection„ able; the real objea was still more so, ,for it could • never be supposed that the 'ostensible was the real object of the great body of the Catholics. It Was merely a preliminary step to tither and larger sari let. But even to *Bow of the attainment of this primary, this ostensible ohjed, great sacrifices must th: the Aft ofSettletrient and the Bill of Rights must he sacrificed, and'the principles of the successi:ei of the House of BrOniwick subverted. It was a moil. strous proposition, that a grant of peculiar iii,!ul.' groce not allowed to other, Subjeas (who "all toot; the Oath of Stipretoacy), should be ultiwed to men whose obedience,to the Government was but very iolPqre 4 t. liovs'evet good* their dispoAtion, they certainly had _no special right to a .tay.our nut corded to otherF,. Were the.prayer of the PetitiOn granted, the Catholics be invested with the, highest description of p,:.)litical power. :Thie would be attended with 4f/tiger to a Protestant Parlia. mem ;' and let it be recoile.4ted, - that a Protesting Parliament once rescued the otintry_ from the den.gers in which, it was .involyed by a Catholic King. 'lucre were two rua‘k open for the choice 01 , 41 The one, following the examitie of thair ancestors, would lead to safety and honour ; every step of the other was hazardous, and the end was lost in uncertainty. MULOR AYE repeated the arguments of Lord klAwxassiutts .and bIOI49IJTH aroiust