The Sun. — London, England, 1852-12-07 00:00:00

entered to prepare as an amendment—words which he thought would secure what the noble marquis professed to desire, and what he believed all their lordships desired— namely, a unanimous concurrence of opinion with re gard to the question involved. He placed those words in the noble reArquis's hunde. The noble marquis did not immediately return them, having stated that before adopting them he must consult his friends. Who the friends were with whom the noble marquis consulted he did not know ; but he knew that he was waiting for the noble marquis for a considerable period, and that on re turning to the house the noble marquis said, that though he could have wished to place on record:the words which he had prepared himself, he was quite willing to accept his (the Earl of Derby's), in order thatithere might be no division. Now, that w as an exac t statement o f w h at occurred ; and so far was he from thinking the scene which took place discreditable to the House of Lords, that he thought it was just an example of the manner in which political opponents in that house were in the habit—and he hoped would always be in the habit—of dealing with each other, with frankness and with courtesy, and as far as possible, endeavouring to conciliate opponents instead of embittering differ ences, and bringing about unnecessary divisions. Under these circumstances he had framed the resolution which the noble marquis opposite had adopted—it simply but fully adopted the principle of unrestricted competi tion, in the same form that the house affirmed the prin ciple of slavery emancipation and the Roman Catholic Relief Bill ; and it was unjust to call upon him, or other noble lo r d s who had thought with him, to retract or stig matise the opinions which they had heretofore held as unwise or impolitic. (Hear, hear.) As well might the Whigs, after the Roman Catholic Relief Bill was carried, and Sir Robert Peel had returned to power, have gone down to Parliament and required the right hon. baronet and his friends to eat the words that they had uttered in 1834 and 1835. They were not called upon to declare by a formal resolution that the opinion which they had opposed had been "wise, just, and beneficial," and why should the Government of the present day be accused of wishing to pursue a reactionary policy because they re fused to stultify opinions which their friends and follow ers had steadfastlyheld throughout the entire controversy? Such a course of calling upon noble lords to pronounce against thehifeelings and conscientious opinions in a re solution which should seek for nothing but a concurrence of opinion, in its spirit was most injudicious, besides being directly opposed to the usage of their lordship's house. All that their lordships could possibly desire was to pronounce in favour of the present commercial policy of the country ; and for his own part, he need scarcely say that he cordially concurred in the motion made by the noble marquis. He concurred in it without the slightest reservation, and he believed it could be con curred in by the great majority of his friends and sup porters ; but at the same time he was quite ready to de clare that, if words could be found to make the future more clear and, decided, he would unhesitatingly adopt them. (Hear, hear.) He was, however, convinced that no such words could be introduced into the resolution ; and he therefore hoped their lordships would, resting satisfied with the resolution as it stood, refuse to sanction an amendment which could only be, looked upon as a medium for censuring opinions that,. some noble lords had conscientiously entertained in bygone times. (Cheers,) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE had but a very few words to address to their lordships before the resolution was put. He was ready to confess that he had been a party to the agreement which was made by the noble marquis near him, and he certainly understood that, for the saice'ef_ securing unanimity, the resolution proposed by the noble earl at the head of the Government was to be adopted,, but, of course, that understanding could not possibly be binding upon noble lords who were not present when the agreement was made. (Hear, hear.) He did not find fault with his noble friend, the noble baron who had moved the amendment, for having done so, but under the circumstances, which he had just men tioned, if the question came to a division, he should abstain from voting for it. Having said thus much With respect to the position in which the house found itself, he wished to say a few words with respect to the motion which had obtained the concurrence of the noble earl at the head of the Government. Without entering into the question as to whether it was proper or necessary that the house should adopt any reso lution, finally sanctioning the principle of free trade, he would at once confess that it having been determined that such a resolution ought to be passed, he should be the last man to dispute about the terms in which the resol*tion ought to be made. The position in which they found themselves was this—the noble earl at the head of the Government was willing to accept the deci sion of the country, as being against a return to a pro tective policy, and to adopt a resolution which should pledge the house to adhere in future strictly to the prin ciples of unrestricted competition. Now, that being so, and the Government having requested the house to forge fetters by which they were hereafter to be bound, all that the house had to do was to take care that the fetters should be made with such well-tempered metal, that noble lords opposite should find it difficult to escape from them. (A laugh.) They were all free upon this subject ; but so far as he himself was concerned, he could not help feeling that there was a wide difference between making an agreement with parties who had suddenly changedtheir opinions and with parties who Ifad held the same opinion throughout the whole of the struggle. He was bound therefore to ad mit that the noble baron near him (Lord Beaumont) was perfectly justified in proposing his amendment, and in desiring that the house should express its opinion in terms so strong and decisive that it would be impossible for the house or the Government hereafter to withdraw from it. (Hear, hear.) The Earl of HARROWBY was opposed to any imi tation of the House of Commons in assigning reasons for the resolution they had adopted. The objection to such a course was that by assigning no other reason, the house in effect declared they saw no other reason for opposing the recent policy than the inexpediency of fre quent change. It would be best to leave out that por tion of the resolution, and make it merely affirmatory. He should prop ose , therefore, that they should leave out all the preamble, and simply declare their adhesion to the recent commercial policy, and that they would do nothing to impede its operations or hinder its progress. He doubted if the noble lord, or any noble lord in the house, would assign the prosperity of the country to any one cause, be it free trade or not. Lord S'PRANGFORD, after listening to so much and understanding so little—(a laugh)—only rose to express his deep regret that the noble lord the member for Tiver ton (Lord Palmerston) was not a member of their lord ships' house. There would then be some chance of teeming to a conclusion. (Laughter.) The Duke of NEWCASTLE! expressed his concur rence in the view taken by his noble friend (the Earl of Aberdeen), and in the opinion which he expressed as to the absolute inutility of the present or any other resolu tion. Under these circumstances, he rose to impress on the noble marquis (Clanricarde) that it would be very desirable for him to accept the proposal just made by the noble earl—(" hear" from the Earl of Derby) —and thus put an end to the discussion, by the omission in the motion of the commencing words, of which so many noble lords disapproved. (Hear, hear.) He thought that they would be acting more wisely and prudently as regards their own credit and the object they all pro fessea to have at heart, if they confined themselves to the practical part of the resolution, omitting all the preamble. If he were to understand from the cheer of the noble earl opposite that this arrange ment met with his approval—(the Earl of Derby here said he had no objection to it)—and if the noble marquis (Clanricarde) would also assent to it, he should not think it right to trespass long on the attention of the house. - Some observations had, however fallen from the noble earl at the head of the Government, with regard to the course and conduct of the late Sir R. Peel and his friends, with respect to which he felt bonnd to offer a few re marks. He would not discuss with the noble earl what the noble earl might consider the peculiar mission of his noble friend (the Earl of Aberdeen) and the followers of Sir R. Peel in that house; whether it was their bounden duty, for some reasons which the noble earl did not as- sign, to act as mediators between noble lords on the Opposition side and noble lords on the Ministerial side— to come forward as pacificators, who should turn the balance, he presumed, in favour of the Government. He knew not what might be the opinion of the noble earl, but, with respect to the question immediately before the house, this he could say, that they (the fol- lowers qt the late Sir Robert Peol)' considered that a legacy had devolved on them from that great and illustrious man—namely the protection of that commercial policy which he founded in this country, and to thd success of which they were all duly testifying. (Hear, hear.) From that duty he could assure the noble earl they were not likely to be diverted by any observa tions he might make. The noble earl said he could par don some degree of feeling on the part of his noble friend (thoeEia,rl of Aberdeen), because it was natural that he theh nti oeicY anxious to express an opinion favourable to said l. of Sir R. Peel ; but his noble friend expressly thatr hough would have been his individual wish noble earl Would not that Policy " wise, just, and beneficial," yet it desirable to endeavour to do that which the ration, impone ted at in his somewhat impassioned pero their opinio ns " noble lords opposite a recantation of and i for that very reason his noble friend said he sho n ki he tli o to propose any such words. The noble earl at the colleagu rn e e studiously abstain e d, fro f the Government had, however, answering the question why, when his own the other house had ac cepted certain resolution s I n ,11.0duvoted for them, he now on the objected to calling By this course the sa me resolutions ? (Hear, hear.) of Lords to adopt the of two inferences— noble earl left the house to drav2 sotn: decided slur on his either that he was willing to using to call eo o n r s e tlered ob • colleagues in the House of Commons 'y by re f • on their lordships to adopt words which h e jectionable and repulsive to their feelin gs , would be a still more painful conclusion, and on7eZhich (the Duke of Newcastle) would be sorry to arrive at, the the noble earl was not sincere in his declaration with re spect spect to the practical acceptance of free trade. The noble earl had observed what would have been thought, if On Sir R. Peel's accession to office in 1834 and 1835, a mo tion had been made to declare the Reform Bill a "wise, just, and beneficial" measure ? But the case was in no re spect parallel with the present. If Sir R. Peel, from the passing ofthe Reform Bill up to his accession to office in 1834 and 1835, had constantly brought forward in his place motions for the repeal of the Reform Act—if he had been making speech es sess i on by session aga inst it—if he had been rec e i v i ng deputations in his house and telling his friends ,that at the proper time the Reform Act would be re pealed, and if th ey onl • ive , em ywaitedhewouldg the word "Up, Guards, and at ;if he had attended a great meet ing and said, "he would course of legislation which was being pursued ;" if that cry halt in the downwar d had been Sir R. Peel's career, then would the members of either house of Parliamnt have been justified in im- gEWSpM•'Eb ) a il ( \....-4 5 ;4:4 zac 11 S THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENII`srG DECEMBER, 7, 1852. posing a test on him when he took office in 1834-35. (Hear, hear.) But in the first reformed Parliament Sir R. Peel took the earliest opportunity of declaring that he accepted the Reform Act as the irrevocable settle ment of a great constitutional question. (Hear, hear.) Therefore there was no parallel between the position of Sir Robert Peel in 1834-35 and the present position of the noble earl at the head of the Government. (Hear, hear.) The noble earl had ventured on somewhat deli cate and dangerous ground when he pointed out, to the mover of the amendment and to other noble lords the various periods when they abandoned the prin ciples of protection and turned Free-traders ; and, though the noble earl ended by saying, " God forbid that I should taunt anybody for a change of opinion !" yet, by another allusion to the course taken by Sir R. Peel and his colleagues in 1846, he appeared de sirous of expressing an opinion that there had been some dereliction of duty, and some infraction of political principle in the course then pursued. (Hear, hear.) The noble earl said that he certainly objected, and still did, to the manner in which, and the men by whom, the mea sure of 1846 was carried. He (the Duke of Newcastle) did not deny, any more than Sir R. Peel or any of his Government denied, a change of opinion, but the com plaint against the noble earl was that he had not changed his opinion. If the noble earl had come forward and said that his opinion had changed at the 11th or 12th, or, it might be said the 13th, hour, then the present re solution would be unnecessary, He should then feel it no more necessary to bind the Government than he should to bind their lordships' house, which had never swerved in any vote from the course of free trade during the last 10 years. [Here the Earl of Derby made some observation.] He repeated the words " during the last ten years ;" for from 1842 to the present year there was no instance in which that house had attempted to reverse the course of free trade. In 1842 the whole of the tariff was carried in their lordships' house either with no division or by considerable majorities. The repeal of the corn laws in 1846 was carried, notwithstanding the strong opposition and eloquent speech of the noble earl opposite, uner the guidance of that great and illustrious man, whose warning voice would not again be heard in difficulty and danger. (Hear, hear.) In the same year the alteration of the sugar duties was carried, the noble earl opposite declining to divide the house ; and two years later, in spite of the noble earl's opposition, the repeal of the navigation laws was carried by a strong thajority. From that time to the present, notwithstanding all the speeches made in that house, and the violent attacks on the course pursued—though they were told that ruin had overtaken the country, and that their ooureo was most disastrous notwithstanding all this, that house had never swerved from the free-trade course. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, any resolution, as far as that house was con cerned, merely expressing adherence to principles from which the house had never swerved, was unnecessary, and the only reason for passing the resolution, though a milk-and-water one, would be that it might be binding on the Government and the noble earl, whose course had altered, but whose opinion he had himself stated to re main unchanged. If it were the desire of the house to adopt the proposal of the noble earl on the cross benches (the Earl of Harrowby), he should be unwilling to pro tract the discussion, being satisfied that whatever resolu tion might be passed by the house, the great cause of free trade and enlightened commercial policy was per fectly safe, because its principles were based on the im mutable grounds of justice. (Hear, hear.) Lord BEAUMONT, in reference to what had fallen from Lord Stran,gford, said they did not want the noble lord, the member for Tiverton, in that house, because his genius was present there, for the noble lord on the cross benches had proposed an amendment which ap peared to be approved of by all parties. (Laughter.) He expressed his willingness to withdraw his own amend ment. • The Marquis of CLANRICARDE consented to the alteration of the resolution as proposed by the Earl of Harro wby. The Earl of DERBY, in expressing his concurrence . in this arrangement, observed that it was a curious coincidence that in both houses the different parties had been brought more in harmony by a resolution inter posed. (Laughter.) The resolution, as altered by the Earl of Harrowby, was then agreed to, in the following terms : " That this house adheres to the commercial system recently established, and would view with regret any renewed attempt to disturb its operation, or impede its future course." The Marquis of CLANRICARDE desired that it should be entered on the journals that the resolution was passed nent. dis. (Hear, and laughter.) GREECE. Lord STANLEY of Alderley, pursuant to notice, in quired of the Government whether there was any ob jection to lay before Parliament a copy of the protocol signed by England and the four great European powers respecting the canton of Neufchatel ; and also of the convention between England, Russia, France, Bavaria, and Greece, for the settlement of the succession of the throne of Greece ; and to ask a question respecting a report that there had been some recent changes in the political relations of the territory of Montenegro ? The Earl of MALMESBURY— My lords, with respect to the first question put to me by the noble baron, I can only make to him the same reply that I did last session. Negotiations have not been pro ceeded with subsequently to that period, and the protocols to which he alludes have not been prepared to be laid upon the table of your lordships' house ; but they give her Majesty's Ministers the power of choosing their own time to begin these nego tiations. The prevent dope not appear to hor Ma jesty's Government to be a proper time for entering into these negotiations, and the other parties who have signed the pr — otocols are of the same opinion as her Ma jesty's Government upon that point. With respect to the treaty relating to the Greek possession which has just been signed between the four powers, it will be in your lordships' recollection that when the independence of Greece was accomplished, it was considered an object of great importance that the dynasty should be secured to that people, and that the succession of that dynasty in a regular line should be guaranteed by the contracting powers of Russia, France, and England. After the dy nasty had been secured, and Greek independence made safe, the Greeks themselves framed a constitution, and the articles in that constitution declared that no future King of Greece should be of any religion but the Greek faith. It is known to your lordships that the present King of Greece Was brought up from his childhood in the Roman Catholic religion, the consequence of which is, that the treaty has never been enforced. It ap peared desirable that the same guarantee should ex tend so far as the constitutional wishes of the Greek people were embodied in their constitution, and that the three powers should guarantee to the Greek people that the future King of Greece should be of their own faith, as well as the dynasty which had been guaranteed to the Greek nation in 1832. It became necessary, therefore, to accomplish this end, and to revise the treaty of 1832, for the purpose of rendering it more in accordance with the 40th article of the constitution. Her Majesty's Government thereupon invited the Courts of Russia and France to join them in the endeavour to accomplish that object, and the three courts together have revised the treaty and signed the convention accordingly. But I believe I am in order when I say that it is not the cus tom to lay such treaties upon the table until the act of ratification has taken place. The last of the questions of which the noble baron has given me notice is, whether any change has been effected in the state of the political relations of that wild country situated on the borders of Albania, and called Montenegro. I believe that since her Majesty's present Govern ment have come into office there has been no change whatever in the state of those relations. The chief of that country bears a double title. He is the head of the Greek Church in his own country, and he is also the temporal sovereign of that country. But, as head of the Greek Church in his own country, he is under the jurisdiction of the Emperor of Russia, who, your lord ships know, is looked upon as the head of the whole Greek Church. The chief of Montenegro has, therefore, been, as his ancestors have been before him, to the Court of St. Petersburgh, to receive the sanction of the Em peror to his episcopal jurisdiction and titles at Monte negro.. With respect to the independence of that coun try, whatever may be the opinion of different persons upon that question, it seems to be a question rather for antiquaries than for Cabinets to settle. But the prac tical fact is, that it has been an independent country something like 250 years—and although various at tempts have been made by the Porte upon its in dependence, they have only lost large armies in the effort to subjugate it, and he believed that, in its present practical position, it remained, as far as possible, the same now that it was 200 years ago. THE FRENCH EMPIRE. The NOBLE EARL then continued as follows—Having thus answered the question of the noble baron, it now becomes my duty to announce to your lordships an event which you must have all long since expected but which is not diminished in importance by the circumstance that it has been so long expected and foreseen. I allude to a notification which has been made to her Majesty's Government by the Secretary of State for Foreign , Af fairs at Paris, announcing th a t th e French peopl e h ave determined to change the constitution of their govern ment from a republic to an empire, and to attach to the Prince President of the Republic the imperial dignity of Emperor. That notification was made to me on Thurs• day last, and having been communicated by me to her Majesty's Government, her Majesty's servants have thought it right, without further delay or hesitation, to advise her Majesty cordially to accept and recognise the new constitution selected by the French people for their own government. My lords, it has been, as yourlordship; know, our usual policy for the last twenty-two years— indeed ever since the revolution of 1830 in Paris— to acknowledge the constitutional doctrine that a people ihnatverfere earingehe of a ttoc ny chose their power!r own sovereign ; and the sovereign having withoutsoerio e the having been freely chosen by them, that that sovereign or ruler, or by whltever name he may be called, being de facto ruler of his country, should be recognised by the sovereign of this. If there may have been formerly any doubt existing as to what was the distinct will of a nation in the respect to the choice of their sovereign—if we have doubted for one moment the distinct intention of a peopl e at any former time—upon this occasion, my lord s , it is perfectly impossible to mistake their un doubted determination—three times in the most solemn 7 —three ti mes expressed for the same person, in tNaviierni(illo at public m anner , per h aps, o f wh i c h hi story can an example. At th e revolution of 1848, republic s uccee d ed to the monarchy of Louis Philippe, the present Emperor of France was resid ingimportance, usual i n canvasstll country, s d rih es . na y t o a , takes s pl went ace o a v t e relNeveittiho elections none of theo m f in o r f w e ct it u h al n m ot a b g in n g itu b d u e t els h e is wh n e a r m e e ;_h a e went over, I may name so great in France that it is evidently infused with a magic which has an effect upon the people that experi ence only has been able to make Europe understand. We caa always comprehend how the fate of Napoleon, so chequered as it was and such a picture of immense glory and immense misfortune as it presented, was exactly calculated to raise all the sympathies and in terests of human nature ; and we cannot, therefore, wonder that it made a lasting impression upon the people over whom he ruled so long and so greatly. But, my lords, it is scarcely possible for any person in any European state out of France to suppose that the prestige of that name remains so long, so steadily, and so strongly, that thirty-seven years after his abdication, his nephew should have appeared in three different characters before the French people within the course of four years—first offering himself without any of the necessaries of courts or governments to assist him — first, as simple President of the French Republic with a Chamber ; secondly, as absolute President of the French Republic without any constitutional form of government ; and thirdly, as Emperor of the same people :—first, elected by six millions—next elected by seven millions— and lastly, elected by nearly eight millions, a number that would form almost the entire male adult population of France. The present is not the time to speculate upon the reasons for this extraordinary exhibition of senti ment and conviction on the part of the French people. But I think that if we hate long lost sight of the power of that name in France, it has been because we have not sufficiently observed that up to this moment, in the chances and changes which have taken place in the government of that country, only one part of her population was consulted. It was in Paris alone that those changes have taken place. It was in Paris alone that the fates of Louis Philippe and Charles X. were determined. It was by the voice of the Pari sians alone that the republic was established in the year 1848, and although both forms of government successively met with the silent approbation of the country, yet on no one occasion until the President of the Republic was elected in 1848, were the whole mass of the French people consulted with regard to what form of govern ment they preferred, or what manner of man they sought. In the mass or the French people one recollection—one only, and one strong partiality prevails ; and I think it is not difficult to understand why this should be. In 1815, at the time of the Restoration, the French army— an enormous French army—was disbanded. It was poured back again upon the hearths of the population. The prisoners of war returned from all parts of the world in thousands and tens of thousands, and I believe I am not exaggerating the number when I say that, perhaps 400,000, or from that to half a million of men, with one fixed idea in their minds, and with one—l may call it— worship fixed in their hearts, then returned to their homes. For 20 or 30 years afterwards they talked and they thought but of one man ; and they thought and they spoke of him as the great idol of their imagina tion • and though they need hardly have exaggerated be opened to competition. The old bed of the brie ige would be considerably enlarged, and the, existing bridge would be kept until the new one was completed for traffic. In answer to a question from Mr. V. SMITH, The NOBLE LORD said, that lateral additions would be made to the present bridge, which would remain while the new bridge was being erected. • PETITIONS. Mr. T. DUNCONIBE presented two petitions from Finsbury in favor of the repeal of the taxes on knowledge. Sir J. SHELLEY presented a similar petition from a recent meeting at Exeter Hall. GRA.7gD JURIES. In reply to Mr. T. IYUNCOMBE, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was his inten tion, immediately after the recess, to re-introduce the bill for the abolition of grand juries within the metropolitan police district. RECENT POOR LAW ORDER. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked the Chief Commis sioner of the Poor Law Board, whether any instructional letter or other document accompanied the poor law or der of the 25th day of August, 1852, on out-door relief, which was addressed to 110 unions ; and, if any such letter or document, whether he would place a copy of the same on the table of the house : also, whether there was any information in the poor law office as to pay ments to persons " out of work," or "in aid of wages," out of the poor rate, in any unions in England and Wales ; and, if any, whether he would place a copy of such information on the table of the house. Sir J. TROLLOPE said, an instructional letter dated 25th August, had been issued by the board, in regard to their recent order with respect to out-door relief, and it was now on the table of the house, and would shortly be printed. As to the other question, he would have no objection to lay on the table all the information which had been received by the board, if the right hon. gentleman moved for it. WEST GLOUCESTER ELECTION. After short discussion, the petition complaining of the proceedings at the last election for West Gloucester, was Withdrawn on the ground of informality. PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Mr. EWART inquired of the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to propose the appointment of a commission to inquire into the state of our public schools, with a view to extending and otherwise improv ing the system of instruction in the same. Mr. WALPOLE said, it was not the intention of Go vernment. The'Hox. MEMBER then gave notice that on an early day he would call the attention of the house to the sub ject. ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND). Mr. MONSELL asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether it was the intention ofthe Go vernment to introduce any measure during the present session for the continnanoe of the Encumbsred Estates Court in Ireland. Mr. WALPOLE said that the subject was under the consideration of tne Government, but he might give an assurance that they had no intention of abridging the powers that existed at present for the disposal of estates in Ireland. RAILWAYS IN INDIA. Sir H. MADDOCK asked the President of the Board of Control, whether it was intended to encourage by a guarantee such as had been afforded to other rail way undertakings in India, or by any other means, the early commencement of a line of railroad between Alla habad and Delhi. Mr. HERRIES said, the Court of Directors as well as the Goverment had directed their attention to the matter, but as yet had come to no definite decision as to granting a guarantee. the law was concerned. Incomes derivable from the funds paid the tax in England, and Ireland was only ex empted. through a clause which had been introduced into the in cc nue tax. Government not only believed that they were ,i 4 .ght in law, but that their recommendations were f 'founded in justice. He should, therefore, be pre pared to lay on the table, either to-night or to-morrow, resolutions based upon the bold financial scheme sha dowed: forth on Friday. Of course, he could not expect the ho use to dispose of all those resolutions at this time of yea sr ; but Government was quite ready to stand or fall upon any single one of them. Their policy must be taken a s a whole, and on Friday next they should call upon th e house to decide for or against it in the committee which xvould be taken on the tea duties and the house tax. fl lean) Lord J. RUSSELL said he could conceive no graver matter -than that which had just been brought before the house ; and when the proper time arrived, he should be prepared fully to discuss it, well knowing the danger of making any alteration in the principles of taxation which had been established by several successive Parliaa tents. It would be, however, for the Go vernm nt to select which subject they would wish the horuse to pronounce upon first, but he thought before they proceeded to make any reductions in the tax es the house ought to be called upon to vote the way s and means by which the deficiency should be made up. Mr. , GOULBURN took exception to the argument taken - al 0 by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and con tended that it would be a violation of the contract which had be en entered into with the public creditor to require funded property in Ireland to pay income tax. With respect to the tea duties, there would be no diffi culty in dealing with that question in a com mittee of the whole house, but with regard to the other question of increasing the house tax, that could only be done in a committee of ways and means. Sir C. WOOD said, the house could proceed to re duce t'ne tea duties by way of bill, but the other matter of the house tax could only be dealt with in Committee of Ways and Means. He thought, under these cir cumstances, the Budget ought to be treated as a whole on Priday next, though they might single out one resolution upon which to take the discussion. Mr. WALPOLE said the Government could not bring -the whole of the resolutions before the house on Friday, but they proposed to take the opinion of the house on the reduction of the tea duties and the exten sion of the house tax, which involved the whole financial policy of the Government. Sir J. V. SHELLEY did not think there was any necessity for pressing the house-tax to an immediate decision, as before any reduction of taxation could take place the re-imposition of the income tax must be decided on. Lord JOHN MANNERS said, the deficit in the tea duti•as would be about made up by the increase in the house-tax, and he was at a loss to understand what objection there could be to taking both questions to grAher. (Hear, bear.) Doubling the house-tax 'ould only produce about half a million next year, while the reduction in the tea-duties would cause a loss to the revenue of 400,0001. (Hear, hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT said what ho and his friend ob jected to was, they could not consent to reduce taxes until they had decided upon the question of the income tax, which was at present one of the main soursces of the revenue. (Hear, hear.) It was folly for the house to pledge itself to reduce taxes until they had decided upon other ways and means, which must expire in due course, unless some resolution was taken by the house. Mr. E. DENISON took the same view of the matter as the last speaker. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY also thought the imposition of the house tax, if it were necessary, should form the end, and nob the commencement, of their financial legis lation. Mr. MACGREGOR said the income tax must be r settled in the first instance, or the finances of the coun try would be thrown into a state of confusion and un certainty. The report was then received. EXCHEQUER BILLS. Mr. WILLIAMS inquired what was to be the rate of exchequer bills. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the rate was not yet fixed, but he would announce it as soon as it was necessary. Since he had been in office it had only been fixed once, and that was in the month of May last, when he had reduced it, and thus saved the country 37,0001. per annum. SUPPLY. The order of the day was then read for the house resolv ing itself into committee of supply. On the question that the Speaker do leave the chair Mr. HUME said h e understood the proposition to be sub mitted to the committee included a sum of 435,000/. • viz., 113,0001. for the navy s u ppl emen t ar y estimate, 92,0001. for the ordnance supplementary estimate, 150,0001. for the National Gallery, and 80,0001. for the expenses attending the funeral of the Duke of Wellington. He complained that the recommendations of the committees on the naval and ordnance services had not been properly earned out, and said that the manner in which our ships were built, and afterwards cut down, or otherwiAe altered, was most dis graceful. The time had come when some alteration was absolutely necessary. Our army and navy cost together be tween 12,000,0001. and 13,000,0001. A large portion of that expenditure was altogether unnecessary, and when no effi cient efforts were made to diminish the expenditure in these departments, it was the duty of the house to pause before it consented to add anything to the taxation of the country. (Hear, hear.) Before making auy advances, the hoUse ought to be in possession of the plans of the Government. Within the last few years upwards of 2,000,000 had been laid out in fortifications, and other constructions which were perfectly useless. The house ought to profit by experience, and not vote away money in this manner. The committee on naval affairs had decided that 100 ad- Mirals were quite sufficient ; but 150 were kept up, and fresh ones promoted almost every day for no useful purpose whatever. (Hear, hear.) He believed the navy was n ever in a more efficient state than after the right hon. baronet near him (Sir J. Graham) had reduced the expenditure nearly 1,000,0001. in one year. (Hear, hear.) Why were our ships scattered all over the ocean if there was any truth in the statement that we were in imminent danger at home ? He believed that Napoleon 111. would find the strength of his Government to consist in peace, and that the stability of the institutions of that country would be best main tained by the encouragement of free trade. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the grant for the National Gallery, no in formation whatever had been laid before the house ; and until some information was afforded by the right honour 'able gentleman he should object to any grant whatever. The removal of the pictures to Kensington-gardens, where they could be of very little use, was under the management of a particular clique, and he thought tho circumstances altogether very suspicious. He would put it to the house whether such a grant was called for at the time when they were asked to double the house tax. (Cheers.) Then with regard to the expenses of the funeral, before any vote was taken a full statement of all the expenses incurred ought to be submitted to the house. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there was no vote before the house for building a National Gal lery. The only vote to be brought forward was for the purchase of land under rather peculiar circumstances, a portion of which might certainly be subsequently devoted to the erection of a National Gallery. But that had no thing to do with the question now before the house. When that vote come on he should take the liberty of laying be fore the committee the reasons which had induced the Go vernment to ask the house to vote a sum equal to that which, was to be contributed by the commissioners of the Great Exhibition for purposes of great national interest and importance. There was no specific vote for the National Gallery, and the only object of the vote was the purchase of the land to which he had alluded. With regard to the funeral of the great man now at rest, he begged to remind the house of the taunt thrown out that the expenditure would probably be a quarter of a mil lion. It was very desirable to vote the necessary supply at once, by which means the accounts could be brought to a close and no inconsiderable amount saved. (Hear, hear.) A detailed statement would be laid on the table showing how every shilling had been expended. He certainly had stated that he should be prepared, on a fitting occasion, to bring forward the views of the Government on administra tive reform ; but, before doing so, it would be necessary to dispose of these financial measures. It was impossible to embark in questions of such magnitude and importance before disposing of the financial measures which ho had submitted to the house. (Hear, hear.) If the house should be opinion that it was necessary to place the coun try in an efficient state of defence, he trusted his hon. friend the Secretary of the Admiralty would at once be allowed to proceed with his statement. The house then resolved itself into committee—Mr. W PATTEN in the chair. Mr. A. STAFFORD said he trusted, after the remarks of his right hon. friend, he should not be expected to in, cumber the question now before the committee with any reference to those reforms, however earnestly they might be desired, and however essential they might be to the services of the country, because he considered no time more inoppor tune for such discussion than the proposition for a supple mentary vote, such as that which he was now about to propose. In bringing forward this'estimate, it was not his wish to cast any imputation on the Board of Admiralty, or the gentlemen who had preceded the present Government in that office. When they adopted the estimates of the late Government, they did so in no party or unworthy spirit, believing them to be amply sufficient, and, unless circumstances had considerably changed, they would not have changed that opinion. In bringing these estimates before the house, he admitted the right of the house, gene rally speaking, to an explanation as to the objects to which it was intended to apply them. On the other hand, if he entered into details, which might be desirable on an esti mate at the commencement of the financial year, he might be led into a discussion extremely inconvenient, and must therefore decline doing so. He would begin with the ex pression of his most earnest desire, in which honourable gentlemen opposite would all share, for the maintenance of perfect peace in Europe and throughout the world (Hear, hoar.) He brought forward these estimates so completely independent of any one particular power or particular nation, that he would not be led into the naval estimates of any one country, or refer to any country that might be supposed to be affected by them. (Hear, hear.) He brought them forward in the spirit and in the earnest hope of universal peace. The two supplementary estimates which he had now to submit to the committee were, first, 113,0001., for 5,000 additional seamen and 1,500 marines; and secondly, 100,0001. for the necessary expenses of steam machinery for naval purposes. On looking back to the cost of our steam machinery, it was impossible to deny that enormous grants had been made under that head. Let the committee remember the cir cumstances under which these sums were granted from year to year. In the first place, the Government were called upon to establish a paddle-wheel fleet, and now they were obliged to provide a screw fleet. It would be found, how ever, by any honourable member who took the trouble to inquire into the matter, that not only in the Govern ment establishments, but in every private dockyard, enormous expenses had been incurred, which could not possibly be avoided, because it was only by such an expenditure that the efficiency cf the different kinds of steam vessels could be ascertained. He was sure that it would not be contended that, when the paddle wheel fleet had been built, and it was discovered that a screw fleet would answer better, we ought to have gone to no further expense. He believed thil the expense which had been incurrred was not to be attributed to wilful ex travagance, as had been asserted, or to the love of change on the part of the Admiralty, but to the new inventions which were perpetually forced upon their notice; and which imposed upon the Admiralty the necessity of making ex periments. It had been his good fortune during the re cess, to enjoy a trip to the Mediterranean, where he saw the evolutions of the Mediterranean fleet, under the com mand of Admiral Dundas; and it was impossible for any one not to perceive, when sailing vessels were compared with screw steamers, that it was absolutely necessary, un less some new mechanical power were discovered, that screw steamers should be the future of our navy as well as of our mercantile marine. The paddle-wheel was not only exposed to the fire of the enemy, but took up so much space as to interfere with the guns which might be brought to bear upon an adversary's vessel, and consequently, hence forth, we must recognise the combined power of the screw and sail as the future of our nav y. I n or d er th a t th e com mittee might have some notion of the comparative expense of screw steamers and sailing vessels, a paper had been drawn up, which he would read to the house. The comparison wa s d rawn b e t ween a n i nety-gun sailing vessel and a ninety-gun screw steamer of 500- horse power, The first cost of the sailing vessel was 108,0001., while the cost of the screw was 151,0001., and the annual expense of the sailing vessel was 44,3501. while the screw steamer cost annually 51,6781. In the annual expense alone, therefore; without saying anything of first cost, the screw steamer exceeded the sailing vessel by 20 per cent. The hon. gentleman opposite said we must have retrenchment in our dockyards. He thought it would bo found that the present Government would not be remiss in that particular in future, and that as regarded the past, they had not been insensible to the necessity for making proper reductions ; but, as he had said before, this was not the time to discuss these matters. All that he wished the house to be aware of was, that they must look forward to an expensive future, unless they wished the British navy to be inferior to those of other countries. He now came to the question of the number of men. The Government proposed to ask for 5,000 additional seamen, and 1,500 marines for four calendar months ; but in order to make the sum which would be required as small as possible, the Government would assume that for the first two months only half the num ber of seamen and marines would be raised. At the same time, he was happy to state that the rumours which were circulated of the difficulty of getting men to join her Majesty's ships were highly exaggerated, though the house must not disguise from itself that at present the Bri tish sailor was the most conspicuous article in the market. Tho Government had not only to meet the competition of the mercantile marine and the attractions of the gold re gions, but of every other navy in the world, and therefore it was absolutely incumbent upon us to do everything that would promote his comfort, and tempt him to remain in the naval service. His right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, on Friday last, that the seaman was now often turned adrift just when his services became most useful ; and in alluding to a committee which had been engaged in considering this subject, and which had collected much valuable information, he expressed a hope that this committee would suggest certain reforms. He (Mr. Stafford), however, wished to say that not one of these 5,000 additional men would be asked to join the ships of her Majesty under any other restriction or condition than those which were now in force. The honourable and gallant admiral opposite (Sir G. Pechell) knew that nothing was more distasteful to the seamen of the royal navy than to be transferred from one ship to another. Besides, it was neces sary to consult not only the comforts of sailors, but their feelings and fancies. They were a most curious body of men, and if it once got noised abroad at Portsmouth or Plymouth that any change in the present regulations was contemplated, he believed that the Government would not get 100 men in six months to join the service. With re gard to the fleet which the Admiralty proposed to raise, and which he trusted the house would enable it to raise without delay, they intended that it should be stationed in the Channel, cruising, of course, occasionally up and down for exercise. At the Nore they proposed to place three frigates and five steamers ; at Plymouth, four sail-of-the line and, five steamers ; and at Portsmouth, five sail-of-the line; two frigates, and six large steamers. Considering the exposed nature of the coast, and not forgettinhf Osborne and the hopes and loyal sympathies which often centred there,: ho thought this would not be loOked'upoh-its too largo force for the def ence o f our own shores, At present. the' Admiralty had not exceeded the number of men' voted, which was about half a dozen above .hose,, actually . in, the naval service. So far, therefore, thornvernment had kept itself strictly within the limits prMOribed, bitt , ;groY•felt that the time had come when the Channel defences must' be placed in an efficient conditio n s, and :in doing _this the Government did it with a fervent prayer for peace, th e sin cerity of which was evid ence d by tbe conduct, of , England ever since the last shot was fired at Waterloo.. , (Hear, hear.) The Government did not desire to interfere with the internal policy of any country, but they wished that the poorest of the Queen's subjects in the most distant quarters of the globe should feel that the British flag was his security and his safety. They felt that we ought to have a fleet to protect those merchant vessels, which, what ever might be said of their superior sailing qualities and the derision with which they looked down upon men-of war, were constantly applying to the Admiralty for security to the British flag. Lastly, he asked the house for this additional force in order to prevent any hostile foot from treading on these shores, or, if such an event should happen, to insure that the contest should be short and decisive. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving an addition of 5,000 seamen and 1,500 marines to the naval forces of her Majesty. Mr. HUME had always declared his objections to the building of more ships than we could employ; and now it was discovered, after laying out millions of money upon war steamers, that they would not answer the purpose, and therefore a new fleet of screw steamers was necessary. That ought to show us the folly of which we had been guilty for so many years of keeping up such enormous establishments. We had been throwing away two millions yearly upon our dockyards, and he really thought that it might be a question whether we ought not to build our ships by contract. He himself should be disposed to object to all additional votes for the navy until all the recommendations of the committee upstairs had been adopted, until our s hip s h a d been brought home from foreign stations, where they were only doing mis chief, and until all useless officers had been placed on a retired list. We continued to keep up the number of 150 admirals, although we did not employ 20 of them. He did not know whether it would be of much use, but he pro tested against the vote altogether. Lord J. RUSSELL observed that the question before the committee related to the raising of 5,000 additional seamen and 1,500 marines. That question had no connec tion with those to which the bon. member for Montrose had referred, such as the expenditure in the dock-yards and the age of the admirals. He conceived that these topics might be fitly discussed when the naval estimates came under consideration, and then it would be for the members of the late and of the present Government to state their views upon these subjects. But this was a proposal to raise 5,000 more sailors and 1,500 more marines, and he must say that such a proposal had his warm assent. (Hear, hear.) He believed that it was right and necessary to provide a sufficient defence for this islana, which was the citadel of a vast empire, and he was very glad that her Majesty's Government, having been persuaded that such a force was necessary, had not shrunk from proposing it. He believed that so far from its being an upopular vote, the nation would gladly learn that it had been carried, and he for one gave it his cordial assent. (Hear.) _ Mr. W. WILLIAMS said, that on many occasions he had opposed any addition to our naval forces, but in deference to public opinion he should offer no opposition to this vote. He trusted, however, that the people would now be satisfied that the defences of the country were placed on a perfectly secure footing, and that no further expense would be in curred. He suggested that captains of vessels should not have the power of inflicting corporal puuishin ent without a court-martial, and that savings banks should be established in the navy as well as in the army. Sir G. PECHELL remarked that no one doubted the ne cessity of strengthening our defences ; but the hon. gentle man the Secretary of the Admiralty had. not told the house what had been done with the money which had been already voted. He believed that at no period of the history of the navy had it been in better condition than at present. The Government had asked for 5,000 men, but the obtaining of those men would very much depend on the course which the Government might pursue. He be believed that the sailors were very much dissatisfied at present on account of the stoppage of grog, and that was a very delicate question when sailors were concerned. Proper steps should be taken to regulate promotion among them, and they should be given to understand that their position should not be made worse than that. of any other service in the world. Mr. STAFFORD said that 38,000/. had certainly been voted on a late occasion ; but at the same time an under standing was given that it should be maintained for the purpose of a naval reserve. It had not, therefore, been used. at all, nor was it the intention of the present board to avail themselves of it. In reply to Sir G. PECHELL, Mr. STAFFORD said that these 5,000 men now asked for were to have their choice of their ship, and when they had chosen it were not to be removed from it. Mr. SCOBELL congratulated the house and the country that at last they were about to take the right means for our national defence, and he had always held that they had reason to complain, when they were discussing the ques tion of defences last .year, that the militia force was put in advance of recruiting the navy, and using those natural means for the safety of the country which Providence had given us. He was glad the motion before the house seemed to be cordially accepted on all sides. (Hear, hear.) Mr. KUNTZ rose to call the attention of the house to a circumstance ho had heard that morning with respect to the ordnance. He understood that her Majesty's Ministry were going to increase the artillery. [lt was here suggested to the honourable member that the appropriate time for the consideration of this question had not yet arrived, whereupon he desisted.] The motion was then agreed to. The next vote was 100,0001. for the necessary expenses of steam machinery for naval purposes during the year ending sth April,•lBs3. Mr. STAFFORD explained that the number of men at present employed, with the additional 5,000 demanded, would man the fleet and leave a reserve. Mr. MACGREGOR was of opinion that a thorough re form should be introduced into our naval dockyards, and al though he acquitted the Admiralty of blame, he was con vinced that the people looked with suspicion on the changes which were ever taking place. He thought that the pre sent strength of our naval force, if it were well managed, was greater than that of the whole of Europe, and that the proposed increase was therefore unnecessary. Captain DIINCOMBE stated that the vote was required for machinery to complete the vessels now in existence, and that two-thirds of the sum demanded would be spent amongst the constituents of the hon. gentleman. (Laughter. ) Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT would say that the unani mous vote of the house proved the sense of the country on this matter ; and that however determined the people of England might be that their affairs should be managed with economy, they were p re p are d t o make any sacrifice in order to put thi s country, according to the opinions of r the Governm en t, i n a p er f ec t s t a t e of defence. (H ea , hear.) The vote was then agreed to. The next vote was for 73,9711. to defray the charge of wages which shall come in course of payment in the four calendar months ending March 31, 1853, for 700 additional royal marines to be employed on shore, and for the cloth- ing and necessaries of the same. Mr. SCOBELL suggested that it would be worth while in the Admiralty to allow three or four of our greatest shipbuilders to build some of the first-class frigates re quired, merely giving them the tonnage, and permitting them to build after their own fashion; for we had certainly not yet arrived at tho perfection of shipbuilding, an d our vessels were far less swift and had less room than the French vessels. The vote was then agreed to. The vote of 37,9291. for victualling stores for 5,000 addi tional seamen and 800 royal marines, for four calendar months, was next put and agreed to. ORISNANCE ESTIMATES. Colonel DUNNE, in moving for these estimates, said that amongst the defences of the country none was more important than the artillery, an increase in which was now 41 0 asked. The proposition of the Government was,hsr oo of most modest—they w ou ld on ly m ove for an sciktt thr 2,000 men and 1,000 horses. He might mention Tollit• only opportunities which they had for drilling the- n it* tillery in field practice were in Woolwich and in and that these being found inefficient, they pi.' or 0 6 addition of 1,000 horses. The cost of maintai and horses for three months would be about 70,8:Pf:i itot next vote was for ammunition 2,700/., and the t 10001; was for the purchase of new heavy iron ordnaloe,, t o Dr making the total sum demanded for this branch °- vice 92,6581. ceroon af il Mr. MUNTZ complained that the practic e ' •v -- id - the artillery at Woolwich was perfectly useless, tf l oio 6 right angles with the Thames, so that considerable tl the practice took place, lest the shots should °6,0113 shipping in the river. He had heard that 60, 01 "'' ~I,ll l° be required for the purchase of ground which vg available for practice, but he thought this sum w° well Col. D expended. UNNE fully concurred in the statementl3 in ...ow( the hon. gentleman, and intimated that the Gov't 03" had already entered into negotiations for the pure' some land at Shoeburyness as a practice ground. 00, j Mr. HUME observed that it Wag a great r eflec ta'Lolo former Governments that such a state of things to have continued so long without and endeavour the defect. The house had now to thank the honopf; man Mr. Muntz for having brought the matter foroci It was disgraceful to the authorities that such aly toF things should exist, and that public money sh°T., recklessley squandered. They talked of enjoying te"2,101 ings of peace, but they were called upon t° P AY' expenses incidental to a war. mos° tito Mr. WILLIAMS saw no reason for an -a le- t. artillery, as they were 2,000 stronger than they A'S for the HUME last 15 years. .0 Mr. inquired hew it was that so large - 101. was named in the estimate for bounty. ...„0 Col. DUNNE replied that the actual b°""%',Fy amounted to Si. 15s. 6d.-31. was travelling e x il e there were other charges included in the 10 /• t a Ott! , Sir. J. F. SMITH expressed his opinio n tillery arm of the service ought to be maintained of the greatest possible strength and efficieneY• Captain SCOBELL said that at present th e stre for' artillery amounted to about 15,000 men. It T, t l l ` g to which, above all others, he believed, they ° ll,l ' its p in an effective state ; but he was of opinion th°, to I sent strength was sufficient. He would be wi ll i nv ' A i the horses and ammunition asked for, but not e l l r Colonel DUNNE observed that the artillery o o at present 12,000 men. ° l ' 6 ,t Captain PECIIELL begged to suggest that 00 guns in store should be either used or sold. o f , 46 The vote was then agreed to : as was also a vote o f 2 , ', tr for providing forage for 1,000 horses, and " te ° for additional labour in making up ammun ition j A sum not exceeding 14,0001. was p ro posed toffe e for defraying the expenses of p u r c h as ing iron or {, pr rectles . b ing ( Captain PECHELL objected to this sum as sive. In rel ly to an observation of Mr. HUME, ,al' Sir F. SMITH observed that all the log"„ir t. t roy d the service were now armed with 10-inch guns - v 4,1 of i cently 8-inch guns had been used, but all fat 1 ' were of opinion that the larger guns were "I serviceable. The vote was then agreed to. . NATIONAL GALLERY. R sai`%4o The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ -,TR i will take this opportunity of correcting an irePr es- i ° , regard to the next vote which has been erroneoct;', ted by the honourable member for 3fontrose• ices vote for a sum of consider a bl e amount, ne t m 01 11 150,0001. , for building a National Gallery. I e ' to the house the circuraitance s s under which he r i , ' Government propose dila vote. l There is no doubt t elt : s tn time is ninv come .:when we =rust study more the vlo education of the people of this Country,' no s 1, 4 bring the influences' of `science and art to hear 14 " r lduction more than they have p r e va iled until the e F, time. (Hear.) A great revo l u ti o n had tak en rin 1' ar those circumstances which gave s uperiority ere i t o factures. (Hear.) Hithe r t o thi s co untry has sv very great supremacy by its command over the re its real. But d a ily th e raw material becomes more e c i . s , in price from the new system of locomotion. It 1 0 1 OlX ° ' f our I possible any longer to sustain the supremacy °- v )f 1 factures by merely h av i ng th e su p reme comnia lla _:, ° g' dt o raw material, and the intellectual element is be C ( le• of the most import a nt e l emen t s o f competVon. • E • hear.) This was felt very much during the Greaciill tion, and I believe I may say it was the result w . arrived at by those who on th a t occasion o orcis 0 (r impartiality the office of examining the produe th fl s o countries. They arrived at this result, which i t t necessary at that time ostentatiously to ann° ullet :' 0 ft:o we wished to maintain our superiority in the duction, we must remember th a t the intellectual e t ,f ,14 ,; must be more studied and cu lti v ated than her% aif co r e (Hear, hear, hear.) It was f oun d that in many co ary there was a superiority in science, and that from s o agencies there was a power of competition wit h •„ i i te had only a superior power over the raw In c 7, 1 support our industry, which showed that th6 eal had arrived when we must consider about end /0 4 , the means of maintai n in g o ur superiority. al ef t, Now, sir, in all the countries of Europe this great " ."oe long been recognised. There is not a town of allY, u ecl e l , in which there is not a school, in which the i n ' Yi!A Pr o r science and art is not brought to bear upon in° st ,h tions, and there is not a capital in Europe in W" -. 4 f ie r Iji is not an i n d us t r i a l un i vers ity. (H ear .) Now, to fi been no deficiency of means or of feeling in this co i. a s t many- years. It is a very curious fact that, althoug',: r e t not succeeded in bringing to bear the influence 0 , 1 ; r 1 " science upon manufacturing skill with any effect/ "la ;,1 count the number of institutions which are devoted , 4 great metropolis to the cultivation of art and scieL le f‘i the amount of money that is expended for mid them, by voluntary contributions, we shall wa re they exhibit a sum of not fewer than one ble eps c i number, which are maintained at an anima' e it . fa about 160,0001. The nation also contributes t . u tir nearly 100,0001. in support of considerable ins t' such as the British Museum and the National 011; which, added together, make up a sum of about a 'j i b 71 of a million annually expended for the very plirP e _ r s f e be unfortunately have never been effected. (-ntun,''' jaw The question has naturally arisen why, with stic' se ies tions of the wish of the people to cultivate art a n ' 0 shown and proved by their readiness to expend 9413 te0d such a large sum of money, still any systematical to bring to bear the influence of science and ofP'S manufacturing industry has never been cane, .d r ; ; 0 , 1 :: 1 4 The result of the experience of the Great Extu°7„,.."e ,31 „r the result of what has taken place in other con e T,„bil ° 's l a conviction entertained not only by many Men e , nO, phic mind, but also by many men o f practical!'" s cer"o. , the time hid come when it was necessary tho,, c iee ce, ii t great effort should b e ma d e, an d th a t the in'Arolg' l 9 science and art up on p ro d uc ti ons s h ou ld be o f i v more systematically to bear. The attention le t,tei Royal Commi ss i oners was a tt rac t e d t o the and here permit me to observe how deeply ifigllllo the people of this coun t r y are t o hi s Rays , ' 0 0 7, i f Prince Albert for his unceasing solicitude for the P r o, ' of art in all its b ranc h es . (H ear, h ear. ) The itc:„Y„ or ; 0 ,0 missioners found themsel ves , a ft er a terminate Great Exhibition, in th e p ossess i on o f a sur plus than 150,0001. ; besides that they had as a c° ll `' . A vivo ( from the exhibitors from foreign states what serv°3l,oo,, foundation of an extraordinary museum, the], e joi l ,a which is now not less than 9,0001. The CO of 1 ;0 therefore, being more consciou s th an an y other hed g e;" in this country of our great deficiency in thel e r t P 0 and of the absolute necessity of making some e_ . ," ° ;.,j, to consider whether the opportunity had not arrin ttleA they might probably give some great impulse „„ ° f oun tional feeling, and pr o p ose t o l a y th e f dati e- • i n t o complete industrial education o f w hi c h we 3 2 .- 4 , They had to consider wh a t was th e reas on ta c ''',isiftto country, where we sh ou ld h avg suppose d there °:;r4 many facilities for developin g suc h an e ducation),, i ,fac',, d e hitherto been so uns uccess f u l an d w ith ou t a ny se' d u e results in that respect. And they found, afb e i tf' e ta sideration, th a t it was t o be attributed mainly.e-te causes—to want of system, and t o wan t of spa "t he hear)—and I think it may be really sa id that to hay i~ cause) the first ought to be attributed. W ,. ..„, e o tref number of institutions scattered over thi s g reat in none of which can the objects of those insti i ,' - o t isjj sufficiently or satisfactorily developed from Nvan"..,fr e ctc And while from this cause they cannot fulfil se' i n g the object for which they were instituted, their i u%srP,o tered in different positions prevents any unite u „nigh l o' by which their concentrate& efforts might be ilitatif bear. If you examine some of the principal in s . ," v te° both those founded by individuals and those Ferri/ fo il- t 4 the nation, you will find always one complaint- I - that e lo, to the Royal Society, for example, you will fin many years there has been a constant appeal to gl i iice"i more accommodation, and more room for the ft o to t the objects which they have in view. If of Royal Academy, you will find that during i c l - n ts, summer months, a time most favourable to stuu e ,„ r opo schools are obliged to be closed on account of th e ci i D ot i pr tions for the annual exhibitions. (Hear.) I ntaisli mind honourable gentlemen of the state of the P.L't seum at this moment. I had the honour to -day Own att ' ing at and receiving a deputation, and that deput e ' w oo l o i before us facts which are probably notorious t°,,,,e e ,,ci able gentlemen i n thi s h ouse , th oug h perhaps thefthe Jl ea much impressed with them as we were but )31 1 t ,l is, that, at this moment, we have not room in the o r Museum, which is in f a ct a collection of wort ,700, ie subjects, for one single branch of literature or .„,-s c ,i te sai:b art. (Hear, hear.) The library of the British A L 11 now increasing at the rate of 16 , 000 volumes a 3 7 ; no in less than 30 years the collection, which q t i e sl o t amounts to 500,000 volumes , will be doubled.l ry t it lutely necessary that we should find accomrao iibra - g e that for if we once cease to increase the nations.' be is y links will be wanting in the chain which will ne v ,. er rt plied. (Hear, hear.) We have collections °I is olly science at this moment stowed in cellars, and sch_„„ °° aer sign are obliged to meet in different places andl"'",oa ferent roofs. If you go to the National Galled'' 4 o .,h l° 'll' fi n d the collection of pict ures, w hi c h i s no t so n ti might be, because there is no proper receptacle for `:: 1 of 1 c.t ti on s absolutely stowed in diff eren t b u i l d ings , instc7ololl'3 ing under the same roof, and f orm i ng a com plete sel l i to p ffpo which, by affording means of tracing the different se nt in o f different ages, might supply a t es t o f our a dvancon e : s ibl a s n , t present age. The R o y a l C omm i ssioners, being e n , r , - e eneo all this, thought that the ti me h a d come whenerb must be made to concentrate all these scattere'„„ for the great obj ec t o f industrial education. ( Ilea tetc' e r They considered th a t they should establish o ne s Y e O arrangement, and for this purpose that they Or o f s';`,'", come the great deficiency arising frOm the wa n ,,l, I sl B cient space. With this view they have pern''"„ s icia ° _,o spot I think eminently suited for the object, a Cc Cri" of portion of land very near that spot where the 1,0 1 4 Palace originally rose. They have expended , 1 , 1 1, e ,t, 1 i0a r k . ,- money which remained as a surplus of the contr!ly s ty's ' oe t the Exhibition, and they appealed to her ga i r o hae,i,, e t vernment whether they would recommend to - L to 1. 0 that the State should contribute an equal s,Ous e vfoA which they thus expended for this object. Then° o btocle recollect that this was the last opportunity for our t te that, the want of which has hitherto raade tempts for bringing art and science to pvea` the w a : e s education of the people nugatory,—nani_e,,q , , tge ja °`; p ot of space. Another opportunity may e° l '.,; n g th' in this 'rapidly-increasing city for obt!iieu e , i t of _4ll where there is so large a space for the develoy o nt,ps agree to contribute an equal sum, making thg o we should then be in possession of a space purposes we have in view. If the House of e U ther oo .sv ,Or lie ly t would allow us to bring to bear the milieu ~,A t iv science and art through all their &nag And his military events and his military glory, they si added to those all that the warmest enthusiasm could give. Upon the rising generation all this could not be lost ; and it appears to me that the seeds which these men have sown in the provinces of France are now to be seen, in the fruit of which we have witnessed the ripening on this occasion. Seeing then this immense demonstration of feeling on the part of the French people, it was impossible for he': Majesty's Government, even if it - had not been our usual policy to sanction such demonstrations, not to have advised her Majesty cordially to accept and recognise the empire. There might have been one, and one only, reason that might have tempted us to hesitate' before we advised her Majesty so to proceed; but I rejoice to say that the good sense of the present - Emperor, foreseeing the difficulty; met it in advance, and removed from her - Majesty's Government those difficulties that might otherwise have intervened. I allude to a somewhat ambiguous expression which was found in the report of the Senatus Consnitum, which re ferred to the late President of the Republic, and which was connected with the title he meant to take —that of Napoleon 111. That expression might have induced her Majesty's Government, and would naturally have induced any one, to suppose that the interpretation to beven to it would have been that of corn mon par lancelwgihen it designates sovereigns —that it gave the bearer of the title an hereditary retrospective right to the throne, and that he was descended in a straight and legitimate line, and by right had new ascended the throne of France. My lords, the advisers of the present Empe ror of the French, forseeing this difficulty, frankly took the initiative, in assuring her Majesty's Government that it related simply to the historical incident that in France, and according to French law, two sovereigns of the name of Bonaparte only had preceded the present Emperor. Neither of them, as your lordships know, were recognised by their country, and the French know that :as well as your lordships—and they therefore adopted the title with no intention of claiming any hereditary right from the first Emperor. They have distinctly intimated that, both to her Majesty's Government, and since in a speech by the Emperor himself ; he has declared, and his Go vernment have also declared it to ours, that h e is sove reign only by the voice of the people, not by hereditary right to the throne—that he distinctly recogni see all the Governments that have existed since 1814 in France — that he recognises the acts of those Governments, and acknowledges the solidarity of those Governments in suc ceeding others. With this satisfactory and frank expla nation, it was only left to her Majesty's Gomrnment, as I said before, cordially and with pleasure to acknowledge the decided will of the French nation ; and to send to her Majesty's ambassador at Paris new credentials for the new court. In the notification which the Emperor has made to her Majesty's Government, he says that the same policy which influenced the President will influence the Emperor. And with respect to that policy. as regal dki England, it is impossible to speak too highly of the cordial and frank manner in which every question has been entertained by the Government of ' France—at least since I have had the honour of holding the seals of office. (Hear, hear.) I have no doubt my noble friend opposite will say the same thing at the time he filled my place. I have found nothing but fairness and fair play in all these transactions—nothing• but as surances of good-will and wishes to maintain an - unbroken friendship with this country. I believe the Emperor himself, and the great mass of the people, deeply feel the necessity, for the interests of both countries, that we should be on a footing of profound peace. And, on the other hand, they see the great folly and crime which it _ would be on either side to provoke a war. They must know that a war, as far as it would lead to the subjuga tion of either country by the other, is an absurdity —that neither country, so great, powerful, and in dependent, could in any manner subjugate the other; and, there fore, war must be as useless as cruel, and as i ()glorious as absurd. (Hear, hear.) Viscount CANNING, after making some observations which were not heard in the gallery, said he would take the liberty of asking the noble earl to complete his state ment as regarded _the form and shape in wlich the as surances which he had referred to had been placed in his hands, and he also wished to know whether the noble earl would, either now, or at any future, but not very dis tant, time, lay them before Parliament and the country ? (Hear, hear.) The Earl . of MALMESBURY did not understand his noble friend on two points. He appeared first to dis approve of something which he (the Earl of Malmesbury) had stated— Viscount CANNING said it was a feeling which he had over and over again repeated and constantly main tained in that and the other house,of Parliament, and it was simply this, that in the English Parliament, when, ever foreign matters were brought under discussion, it was advisable—and, above all, in the case of a Minister of the Crown—to abstain from anything approaching to comment. on the conduct of a neighbouring country, whether it were the people or the ruling authority. Then, as to the other point, communications between friendly states assumed different forms ; some times they were in the form of a dispatch from the ambassador, and sometimes in the form of a note from the minister of the country. He wished to know in which of these forms, or, if in either form, what form, these assurances had been received ? The Earl of MALMESBURY perfectly agreed as to what the noble lord said with reference to comments, if they were disagreeable or unfriendly. In that case, he should be the last man to have made them. He was not in the habit of expressing his feelings very often to their lordships, and he might not have made himself clearly understood. He rose with the most earnest wish to say for France and the French all that France and the French would say for themselves. He did not, therefore, understand why his noble friend found fault with his comments. The diplomatic nature of the com munications which had been made were perfectly official, and therefore satisfactory to the Government. Th e y could not be more satisfactory to . him than when mad e by the French ambassador verbally, and in words re peated by the Emperor himself, in his speech to his Chambers. He thought that was satisfactory enough. The Marquis of BREADALBANE hoped the changes which had taken place in France would be attended with the best results. BANK NOTES BILL. On the motion of the Earl of DERBY, this bill was read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned at a quarter past nine o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAXIII took the chair shortly before four o'clock. NEW MEMBERS. Mr. W. J. FOX, for Oldham, Lord NORREYS, for Abingdon, and Lord A. VANE, for Durham, took the oaths and their seats. NEW WRIT. Mr. HUDSON moved for a new writ for Merthyr Tydvil, in the room of Sir J. - Guest, Bart. PETITIONS. Mr. SCOTT presented a petition from Stirling, against nunneries. Sir F. THESIGER presented a petition from a Sussex newspaper, in favour of the retention of the taxes on newspaper. Mr. EWART presented several petitions for the re peal of the taxes on knowledge. Mr. Sergeant SHEE presented a petition against cer tain measures introduced by the Irish Attorney-General respecting tenant right. Several petitions were -presented against the paper and newspaper stamp duties. Mr. F. MACKENZIE presented a petition from a mechanics' institution praying that Parliamentary papers be given gratuitously to literary, and scientific institu tions. WESTMINSTER BRIDGE. In reply to Sir H. INGLis, Lord J. MANNERS said, Mr. Walker, the engineer, stated that a person was appointed to watch Westmin ster Bridge, and to ascertain when it became in a state of danger. At present no apprehensions were enter tained of the safety of the bridge. The Government in tended to introduce a bill as speedily as - possible for the erection - of a new bridge on the present site ; but they had not decided whether the plans should NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr. MACGREGOR gave notice that on Thursday next ho would move for returns connected with the Post Office. CLEOPATRA'S NEEDLE. Mr. HUME wished to ask, whether any and what measures had been adopted to bring from Egypt the Obelisk, known by the name of Cleopatra's Needle, which was presented by the late Mahomed Ali to, and accepted by, George the Fourth, for the British Nation. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the conditions were these. The needle was to be removed at the expense of the company, and in case the Crystal Palace did not succeed or become a permanent building, the Government reserved to themselves the right of reclaiming - it. The papers would be laid before the house. MINISTERS' MONEY. Mr. FAGAN gave notice that early after the recess he should move a series of resolutions on the subject of ministers' money in Ireland. AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS. Mr. SANDARS wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, if it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce any measure this session for the collection of agricultural statistics. ---- -- Mr. HENLEY said the subject of agricultural static. tics had occupied the attention of the Board of Trade, but he could hardly say yet whether Government in. tended to bring in any measure on the subject. INCOME TAX. - Mr. RICH wished to know whether the reduction in the income tax for clergymen would extend to pluralists and bishops. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, winbt ho ;ntended to say wag, tlia.t clergymen must con• tinue to be assessed under schedule A and at seven pence in the pound, though he admitted at the same time that in she case of a clergyman in the receipt of only 1001. a year the law would be exceedingly unjust, and in his case an exemption would be made, similar to that pro vided by the existing law in favour of dissenting minis ters. CONSOLIDATED ANNUITIES. In reply to a question from Mr. MONSELL, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that it was his intention shortly to bring in a bill for regulating the payment of consolidated annuities in Ireland. THE FRENCH EMPIRE. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had to acquaint the house that her Majesty had received a notification that there had been a change in the form of the Government of France. Her Majesty had re ceived a notification to the effect that the Empire had been re-established, and that the Emperor had been proclaimed under the title of Napoleon 111. Ministers, acting upon that policy which had long been received in this country, namely, that of recognising every de facto Government, had advised her Majesty promptly , and completely to recognise the new Govern ment. (Hear, bear, and cheers.) At the same time first, in a friendly form ; and, secondly, in a formal and official manner, had it been announced to the Govern ment that in accepting the title of Napoleon the Third, the Emperor of the French does not in any way wish to assert his hereditary claim to the Empire ; but, on the contrary, he considers his only claim to be considered Emperor was that he had been elected to this dignity by the voice. of the peopl e of France. The Emperor had also voluntarily declared that he entirely accepts all the Governments, and their acts, which had existed since 1814. (Cheers.‘ Lord JOHN JtIJSSELL asked if there would be any objection to produce the official notification which the Government had received. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought there would be none, but he could not answer that question at presmt in a positive manner. INCOME TAX. On the motiol for receiving the report, Mr. GLADSFONE considered that the question on Friday would only refer to the alteration of the house tax, and this hE did not think a constitutional course. Upon the sth d April the income tax will have legally ceased to exist, and it was the duty of the house to con sider what should be done with the income tax, for until this was settle, it was impossible to consider fairly the subject of thE increas e o f th e h ou s e tax. The house would not be called upon to consider the continuance, but the reconstruction of the income tax, and on this question the judgment of the house should be taken in the most formal manner. The right hon. gentleman had proposed then great changes in the income tax. The reduction of the exemptions existing, though not without precedent, he considered dangerous ; and upon the change proposed there existed so much difference of opinion that, from some sides in the house, the right hon. gentleman must expect from first to last the most strenuous opposition. He hoped that the house would not depart from Mr. Pitt's doctrine on the subject. Mr. Pitt re s p ected the pr i nc i p l e o f public faith, but the plan of the G overnment, as propoun d e d on F r id a y, pro ceeded dir ec tl y was not only t h e op i n i on o f M r. Pitt th a t h e s t o od u p on , in opposition to that principle. But it but upon the fact that it had been adopted by all states men and all Parliaments since 1803. The judgment of Parliament had been frequently taken upon this sub ject sinc e th en, and it had b een un if orm w ith th a t o f Mr. Pitt i n every case, It h a d a l wa y s b een allowed that the funds, and the income derivable from them, were exempt f rom all charges and taxation. The mo ney was lot upon condition that no tax should be levied upon the interest or its quality of interest and nor, after a lapse of fifty five years, and after two generations of statesmen had passed away, it was deliberately proposed to Parliament to vio n_ lath that p r i nc i ple. The ques ti on might seem t r u m p ery now, but th e sum i nvo l ve d by way of tax was, small, but the day doubled, an d i t ' was w , tierefore, now necessary that the mi g ht come when the figure might be house should see its a+ as to the income tax, before it proceeded to consider the other matters of the budget. The income tax ought to be made an independent question, and he hoped the Government would be pre pared on Friday next to adopt the suggestion he had ventured to throw out. Mr. HUME wished to be definitely informed whe ther Government intended the income tax to be a per manent or temporary measure. He differed with the opinion of the last speaker, because he could see no reason for exempting incomes deriv able through the funds from payment of the tax. Such incomes ought to be assessed in the same proportion as other property, and although Mr. Pitt and others might have entertained a different opinion, the time had gone by when the country would tolerate the injustice of the exemption longer. But they ought at once, before they proceeded further, to come to some decision upon the question of increasing the house tax. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was still of opinion that the course which he had chalked out for the house to take was the correct one —and that it was to go into committee both on the house duty and the income tax, while with regard to the extension of the income tax to funded property in Ireland, he ap prehended there would be no difficulty in that as far as _