The Sun. — London, England, 1852-05-12 00:00:00

-Church. You eats- do much to break it up, by acting in a atpirit of kindness; forbearance, and generosity."-(Cheers.) • 'The reason why I re - Capitulate this brief history of the May 'oth grant is to call back the attention of the House to the 'Purpose for which the grant was made, to consider how-far those purposes have answered to justify a continuation of the grant as it ia, and a refusal of any inquiry. The three pur 'Poses for which the grant was made, the House will remem ber are these :-To secure a well-educated, loyal, and domes tic priesthood ; to provide funds for the instruction of that priesthood, which the Roman Catholics were supposed to be too • poor to provide for themselves, in order that the priest hood might be brought up in a manner suitable to their holy cffice, and the position they would afterwards fill; and 'to break up by generosity that formidable conspiracy-(An lionourable Member -" Cunfederaey ;" and "Hear, hear, from Irish Members)-to break up that formidable con federacy which existed in Ireland against the British , Government and the British connexion. These were the Tlajects for which that grant was made a nd p er p etuated. Well, then, I ask, has the grant in any instance answered the purpose for which it was given?-(Hear, hear.) That is a question which I think you are bound to answer for Tourselves before you determine whether any Committeeof inquiry is necessary or not. Has the grant, or has it not, pro vided a well-educated, loyal, and domestic priesthood for the people of Ireland? It insy have done so up ,to .a' certain point, but observe what rumour says, for I am not going to give any opinion of my own upon the subject.--(Derisive cheers from the Irish Members.) What I say is this, that there is strong reason to-believe that many of the priesthood 'educated in that college are members of different orders, who are sent out to different countries, and who do not remain a -domestic priesthood in Ireland.-(Cheers.) And, if I ern right in my conclusion, I say that it is a material ground for us to go upon before we decide at once to withdraw the grant made for giving a domestic priesthood to Ireland, to see if it be applied for the purpose of' giving a priesthood to iother countries, and to inquire whether we are spending Eng lish money for such purposes.-(Loud Ministerial cheers.) But, independendently of that, has or has not the character of the priesthood changed of lens years? I suspect the an swer must be instead of domestic influence, foreign influence has more weight with the priesthood in Ireland.-(Loud cheers.) I think we shall find that the priesthood of Ire land, instead of confining themselves, as they ought to do to the purpose of extending and supporting their own re ligion and their oan religious views, have, in fact, proved ''of an aggressive character, which does constitute what Sir R. Peel calls a confederacy-I will not say a formidable confederacy-against the British Crown and the British connexion.- (Cries of " Hear, hear," from Mr. G. H. 'Moore]. I allude more particularly to what has taken place . since Ur. Cullen was raised to the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church. The character of the priesthood of Ireland has been materially changed by that measure. When the Roman Catholics desired emancipation in the year 1814, I can produce proofs to you, from the highest authority, that they then laid it down as a proposition which they wished the Government to believe, that the domestic priesthood of the country would not be superseded by foreign bishopu 'being brohght over. Since we have had Dr. Cullen in Ire land, we have had foreign influence exercised there, and events so recent as in the last year will show that the cha aracter of the education of the priesthood in Ireland has not been so domestic as the promoters of this grant no doubt an ticipated.-(Hear, hear.) If this be so, Ido not say it is a justification for you to take away the grant, but I do say it is a justification for You to make the inquiry, in order that the facts- if they be not as I have conjectured-may be rightly interpreted.-(Hear, hear.) With regard to the second point-namely, the poverty under 'which the col lege was labouring, and the reason, therefore, for giving an extended grant to that college. I remem lber when that Act was brought in it was accompanied lay a Bill, brought in by the Right Hon ourable Baronet the Member for Ripon, for - establishing the Queen's Colleges in Ireland. Those two acts must be taken together, as part of , one measure. They were simultaneously introduced; they 'were intended to have one object; they were proposed with one *view. That object and that view was a national and ?domestic one. It was to heal religious differences, to bring Roman Catholics and Protestants into one common scheme sof education, where asperities might be worn off, where con ciliation might be encouraged, where friendship and good feeling might spring up, and where all differences, which have unhappily afflicted that unhappy country, might be 'brought to an end.-(Hear, hear.) How has that suc ceeded ? Since Dr. Cullen was appointed Primate of Ireland there has been a synod at Thurles, and the decrees of that Synod have been confirmed by the Court of Rome, and by those decrees no Roman Catholic bishop is allowed to have any place in any of those colleges; no ecclesiastic is allowed to be a professor or dean in those colleges; and the laity 'were recommended at least, though not actually enjoined, to s ithstain from sending their children to them. -(" Hear , neer," from Mr. G. H. Moore.) The Honourable - Gentleman cheers, but what is the inference which the House and the country will draw from it? The infe rence is, that the object which my Right Hon. Friend had in bringing in those Bills, and the object of the legis lature in passing them-the benevolent and conciliatory ob ject has been defeated and destroyed by those who are acting • under foreign influence.-(Loud Ministerial cheers.) But that is not all. Since that has happened, you (addressing the Hon. Member) have endeavoured to establish colleges of Your own. If establish those colleges of your own, you - cannot complain if we say it is for the purpose of separating Roman Catholics from Protestants-(No, no)-of keeping education from the laity-(No, no)-and of keeping the Priesthood under foreign influence, by ultramontane laws.-- (thiphatic cries of " No, no," order, and cheers.) The last Point is the most material one. 'Sir Robert Peel said he sent forth, this grant as a messenger of peace , that he sent it, as Honourable Member for North Warwickshire had said, in a liberal and confiding spirit-that he intended it to nettle great religious differences, and to break up this formidable confederacy. I ask any man who hears me whe ther the grant has had that effect-whether the system of education there established has accomplished its object whether some of the best supporters of that Act have not felt in the greatest degree disappointed at the failure of the 'results intended to flow from it ?-( Hear, hear.) We feel cur disappointment all the more bitter, because we have no - means of bringing about those beneficial and peaceful re sults which I firmly believe was the object of Sir Robert Peel's Government to bring about, when those two Acta :Were introduced.-(Hear, hear.) There is one answer which by anticipation I must notice, and it is the same as is con tained in the proposed amendment of the Honourable Mem ber for Kerry, that visitors of the College are appointed to inquire into the management, discipline, and government of the college, and , therefore no inquiry by a Committee is necessary. Has the Honourable Member referred year after year to the reports of those visitors? Does he know 'whether the inquiries of the visitors will answer the object of the Honourable Meniber for North War , vickshire? I will take the last of these reports, and it is a verY good sample of the whole of them. The report goes into any complaints by the president, any complaints by the superiors or professors, any complaints by the students ; then as to the oath of allegiance being taken by the students, - and then into the detail of the number and duties of the professors ; then as to any change or alteration of the college discipline or any improvement 'in the system of education within its walls. The visitors wound up by saying they bad concluded the necessary hiquiries, and the House Tfould see all the inquiries which they considered necessary „ were inquiries which had nothing whatever to do with the :subject under discussion. I think that the inquiry ought to be grianted upon the three grounds to which I have adverted, , for, seeing as I do, or at least as I think I do, that the con ditions upon which this grant was made have not been ade quately or completely fulfilled, and seeing that the reason' for which it was made are no longer existing to the same ex tent as they were when it was made, since we hear, that funds are forthcoming to endow other colleges opposed to the system 'we' intended to establish ; and seeing that the objects Zit Robert Peel had in view-those peaceful, loyal, domestic objectsf-have not been accomplished as Parliament hoped they would be accomplished, think the country has a right si• 1 • to ask, and Parliament is bound to concede, some inquiry. - 4 `2 (Loud Ministerial cheers.) Unless I have been anticipated - 'by the cheers of Honourable Gentlemen opposite, who seem to think I am shrinking from an avowal of my own opinions n-(flear, hear)-I wish those opinions to abide the result of that inquiry. I did'not wi , h and I do not wish to prejudge • the question,-(Derisive cheers.) I repeat it again I did liOtivish and Ido not wish to prejudge the question. The result of that inquiry may be a complete withdrawal or abo lition Of that grant, or such changes as may be easily con ceived would amount to the abolition of the grant. From all this 'I frankly say on the part of myself and on the part of - the Govemmeet, we do not wish to be precluded, but we wish that there should be such an inquiry that the whole question may be investigated, and so settled at some future day, when the facts are known and ascertained, as to carry • out the intentions of the Legislature, and contribute, as far may be, to the peace and prosperity of the country. Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said, as he represented an English constituency, he might have consulted his general convenience, and have attempted to evade the question brought forward to-night by the Honourable Gentleman the Member for North Warwickshire. Bat as he look e d upon this'motion as a mean attempt to raise a no-Popery cry (Loud cheers) -upon which Honourable Gentlemen relight go' to the hustings, he would not for one instant shrink from ex p ress ing his opinion, nor would he pander to what he con aidered base fanaticism, even should Wiese him the con fidence of his constituency. - (Cheers.) The Honourable Member'for North Warwickshire commenced his speech upon this subject, as he always commenced it, with assurances of the greatest goodwill and love towards his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects; but in his next breath he followed it up by telling the House, they professed a creed subversive, of allegiance and injurious to morality. The House had heard and therefore he need not follow the Hon. Member in all the ;quotations he had made from casuists and text" hooka, b u t be, for one, objected to the motion of the Honourable Mem (Xeh, ber, because, when he re membered the course he (Mr. 4 1 -- ;triooner) had always pursued , and the unmeasured len g th , 5 .. .. 4. „'5;0f denunciation in which be had always indulged with regard.to his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, he ( Mr. (*erne) was persuaded the appointment of the Committee woutd be 'only to' confirm a foregone conclusion.-(Hear, •ess -lean) When the Hon. M e mber for North Warwickshire called upon the House to inquire into the system of educe ossL ton pursued in this college, it was not for the purpose of inquiring into the system of education, but for the purpose 42L3estroying the Roman Catholic system of religion. De ableaAst Roma had been the constant cry of the Honour . l oves h rther.- (Hear, hear.) He cheers that and yet . he Irish B e ess " t o „ inan Catholic fellow-subjects.--(Cheers from the peating to. n i '') ference, that The Honourable Member had been re glint what he rehearsed in 1845, with this dif resist ; now his 1845 there was a great muster in power to it into action. fr i endslla were there and were about to carry prise at the condctn3oTh-e speeds uttered by the Sec could have increased his sur present Government it was the psrtment. Under the voice of State for the Home De- Warwick'ishar' a bitter enmity._(c r i es conciliation he concealed MeMber for North hear.) The Honourable , ;re quoted several extracts ' from Sir Robert Peel's speech, as this inquiry. But if he remembered right, the he supported an was, that. the Amendment, the same as the motion made, and the answer of Sir Robert Peel and the power in the hands of the e Power of the visitors, Lord -Lie quite sufficient for the purpose; eons to Lo rd - Lieutenant, were would only increase animosity bet 4 n inquiry, it Roman Catholics' Protestants, not only in Ireland, but in this and co (Cheers.) And now he (Mr. Osborne) came to untry.- parsued by the then supporters of Sir Robert Peel course present members of the Government ; and if he sh l eu r d ed the little tedious in reading extracts not perhaps from be h a learned divines, but probably from as great statesmen buck must throw himself upon the indulgence of the House. The Hon. Member for Youghal had read to them the opinion of Lord Stanley in 'June, 1845, and what he said upon a n amendment proposed by the Earl of Roden. When 1, 0 ,1 Derby _Lord Stanley upon that occasion-took that view; what did - Mr. Pakingtott, the present_ Secretary of St a t e for the Colonies think ? "He did not think it in consistent with has duty as a Churchman to give the endowment of Maynooth his support-not a _ cold or hesitating support-not a 'reluctant support extracted by party tlee, but a cordial and willing support, founded on deep conviction, firsts that they must not venture to have Maynooth on its present footing ; secondly, that this measure was called for as a step in that wise and conciliatory policy towards Ireland which every Government should attempt to carry " out. -(Hear, hear.) Qaborne) did no the c o l • flee e Secretary for the owes T E In hiS place; and probably his opinions upon religious sub jects had undergone as much change as his opinions upon saccharine rnatters.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Now, he was in a position to carry oat those wise and conciliatory measures he so much admired.—(Renewed • laughter.). Talking of the character of the Irish priests having changed, and accusing them of a want of allegiance to the present Sovereign, what said the Noble Lord who was supposed alone to represent the chivalry in this House? —the Noble Lord, the First Commis sioner of Woods and Forests, when " As free as nature first made man, And wild in woods the naked savage ran." (Hear, bear, and, g laugh,) In one of the best speeches he ever delivered, and he had spoken many good ones, he Said : "The cry idraised, The, Church is in danger.' I admit that it is; but not from this grant to Maynooth,' nor from the Vatican, nor from the Jesuits, that the Irish Church is in peril; it is from herself; frontlet own self-willed and dia.( obedient laity that she is in danger. They who would have her isolate herself fretn the rest of Catholic Christendom, fraternize with the Puritan, and denounce priestcraft with the Presbyterian! I admit the Church to.be in danger. I amirresistibly reminded of the dying words of the martyred Laud on the scaffold. They may who list trace all the glory, renown, and magnificence' of the old English monarchy to the Deitch:conquest 'of 1688, 'even in the penal code and Pro testant ascendancy the safeguards of the empire; but, for myself, , I claim "a liberty to mount higher, and to act in 1815 as though William 111. had died Stadthol der of Hol land."--.(llear shear.) Is he going to a ct in 1852 asif William of Orange had died Stadtholder • o f Holland?— (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord proceeded , with some very pretty poetry : " The priests, those gentle priests end good, Their fathers loVed to hear , Of the God wham they reverea.'; Sole type beloVe, Midst work and woe, which with a fatal " Acknowledge 'frankly, and at once, - you admit to be so great, sand which hall ~ Accredit a minister obstinacy, you pretended - to ignore ;Nun Nuncio at St. James's to the Vaticans—(Cheers)—rece ive c feeling ' tl erto power With every pl. —(Cheers and laughter..) . . . • , disloyally m not acting confidence as a Churchman, that I a to.vards the Church in sanctioning this measure, and, as a statesman, that I am promoting th e best interests of m y I give my vote for the permanent endowment of country, „ the College of Maynooth." Those were the Opinions of two members of the Cabinet — two cons i s tent su pp orters of the permanent endowment of Maynooth. But thsie was an other member of. the present Cabinet who consistently op posed this grant—the present Chancellor of the Exchequer the man who carried brains with hitn.s.-(A laugh) He. (Mr. Osborne) must crave their forbearance; though after the polemics they had had introduced by the reverend gen tleman—(Loud laughter)—he begged.the Hon. Gentleman's pardon—hitroduced by the Hon. Gentleman, the House might be inclined to manifest some little impatience, but he begged their attention to this speech bf the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because it • • wits upon this speeech that he based his opposition to the present mo tion. The •- Right' Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) was quarrelling not with Maynooth, but with Sir Robert Peel. It was in a speech delivered teethe 11th of April, 1845, and he believed that was the first•occasion when the Right Hon. Gentleman totally fell out with Sir R, Peel. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposed tha present endowinent, but not upon the grounds taken by the Hon. Meinber for North Warwickshire. He had no feeling in common with the Hon. Gentleman; for, in fact, the Right lion. Gentle man (Kr. Disraeli) was asleep during the delivery of the Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Spooner's) speech—not . in a Trea sury sleep, but in a bona fide sleep, if the Right Houourable Gentleman ever did sleep.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) "I oppose this Bill on account of the - .manner in which it has been introduced, and on account of the men by whom it is brought forward Are we to.be told, that be cause those men have crossed the floor of the House, and have abandoned with their former seats their former profes sions, are we to be told these men's actions are to remain uncriticised and unopposed, because they tell us to look to the merits of their measures, and to forget themselves and their former protestations?—(Hear.) Let us endeavour to put an end to the misconception and subterfuge which now surround us.—(Cheers.) You have permitted men to gain power, and enter place, and then carry measures exactly the reverse to those which they professed in Oppo sition—(Hear, hear)—and you are reconciled to this proce dure by being persuaded that by carrying measures which you disapprove of and they pretend to disrelish, they are making what they call the best bargain' for you. The Parliamentary course is for this House to ,have the advantage of a Government formed on distinct principles.--(Loud cheers.) Here is a Minister who habitually brings forward as his own measures those schemes and proposals which he bitterly denounced and opposed in Opposition.—(Renewed cheers.) Let me. ask the admirers of this 'best-bargain' system how, they think the Right Honourable Gentle man would have acted in Opposition?" " Let us tell per seis in high places that cunning is not caution, and that habitual perfidy is not high policy of State.' ; '—(Loud cheers.) And in all his (Mr. Osborne's) reading he never read anything so graphic as the Right Hon. Gentle man's definition of the state of Ireland, and upon that state ment he grounded his opposition to the resent motion. He (Mt. Disraeli) said, " The present condition of Ireland was to be traced not to Protestantistn, but to' Puritanism—( - Im.) They would see a a teeming population, which, with reference to the cultivated soil, was denser to the - square mile than that of China, created solely by agriculture, with none of those sources of wealth which are developed with civiliza tion, and sustained consequently upon the lowest conceiv able diet, so that in case of failure they had no other means of subsistence upon which they could fall back. That donee population in extreme distress inhabited an island where there- was 'an Established Church, which was not their church, and a territorial aristocracy, the richest of whom lived in distant capitals. Thus they had "a starving popula tion, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and, in addition, the weakest Executive in the world. That was the Irish question."— (Cheers.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman, apostrophizing Sir Robert Peel, and even then foreseeing, as he (Mr. B. Osborne) predicted at the time, that he would one day be Minister—he said," The monent you have a strong Executive, a just• Administration, and ecclesiastical equality, you will have order and peace in Ireland."—(Loud cheers.) ( Here Mr. Walpole was about to leave the House, when the Hon. Gentleman exclaimed—As the Right Hon. Gentleman is going to find the volume, I will give him the date before he goes.—(Laughter.) He will find it in a speech delivered April 11, 1845.) He continued—lt was because there was no ecclesiastical equality at this moment that he refused to be a. party in aiming this one-sided blow at his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen. He could not look at this question in the light of a common endowment. He looked at it in the light and as of the nature of a restitution. These were the words used in this House by a Noble Lord, who was now member of another House—the Earl of Harrowby, then Lord Sandon, who represented Liverpool ; and they were used also by the Noble Lord thd Member for the city of London: The Noble Lord looked upon it then in the light of a restitu-' tion. He hoped' the Noble Lord still looked upon it in that light, and that. he would not consent—though he had been quoted to-night along with Ca.ssabucitte— (Laughter)—that le would not consent to be - • • a party in aiming this direct , insult at the Roman Catholics, th a t he would not pander to the prejudices of Englishmen, of • ht some.whombe honest, but many of whom were merely scheming for the next election— he hoped the Noble Lord would not pander to the base feelings of these fanatics and schemers, and that he would resist the motion.--(Hear,hear.) He could not understand a party talking of the love they bore to the Ro man Catholics, at the same time that they addressed them in terms such as were used by the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire, followed, as he was; in milder language though in the same spirit, by the Right Hon. the Home Secretary. If they entered into a political union.with Ire. land, the mass of whose population were Roman Ca tholics, they were bound to put the priesthood of that people on a -footing of - equality with the Protestants. If Parliament would not do that—if they refused to give to Irishmen their just rights—then he said they were bound to dissolve the Union. But they, had no right to come down to this House, and while they gave 35,000/. as a Regium Donum to the Presbyterians, refuse this paltry vote of 26,000/. to the Roman Catholics, and thus offer another • insult to the feelings of the mass of the population. Bute said the Hon. Gentleman, in the true pulpit-ground style of oratory, I object to the propagation of error, and the Hon. Gentleman quoted a great many, extracts, which they all had the misery of hearing,Tiom a variety of books, some of which were not text-books of Maynooth at all. At one , time he feared the Hon. Gentleman was about to quote the whole works of Thomas Aquinas, who wrote 140 volumes —(Laughter.) He also quoted from the works of a M. Baille, whose name the Honourable Gentleman pronounced in such a manner that some Gentlemen thought it 'was Henry, Baillie, a Membeeof this House—(Laughter.) He (Mr. Osborne) must protest'against inch a course. This House had no right to have its time wasted, its attention distracted, and the worst passions of the people excited by the speech of the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman had no business to make this House a rostrum from which to address his North Warwickshire constituents.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman was followed by the Noble Lord the Member for Woodstock, whose abilitiekno one would deny, and he had no doubt 'that when the Noble Lord hid a little more information, and had read more of the books whch they were all told they ought to study, he would not . come to the conclusions 'at which he now appeared to have arrived. But when the' Noble Lord said, he refused to pro pagate error, he asked him how he would get over. the fact that in many of our colonies—in Malta, in Gibraltar, in the Mauritius, and in. Cainida—Roman Catholicism . was guaranteed by direct votes 'of , this yaw" ? If they looked at all - their colonies, from India to Newfonnd - hmd, they would find that' this House had guaranteed the establishment of Roman Catholicism. ;,Even in Ireland they would- find that '2BO Chaplains of work houses were paid and supported by direct `votes of thiS House. Nay, if he remembered rightly, ' the Government of the day founded in 1833 a Hindoo college for the propagation of Ilindooism. H e won d ere d if t h e H on .' G en tl e m an was as well acquainted with the Hindoo system of divinity as he professed to be'with 'Roman -Catholicisni ? What - was the House to think of the odour of that sanctity which strained at the Alaynooth gnat and swallowed the Brahminical camel? —(Cheers.) pronounced e ( .st C ithaheyaen 08, were o .) t ii t h, naBla:, practisedd Wha t y w roi e nvi r ,ee e t arlo t t ne h o nk e b y aearde stoth damnabl e t _ e h i (Continuedek v e ry ' 3 o , f t i nde c enth a a s t y w s tecerhmece ceremo nies einhnmgitcioi.hst tary— who by tpheallweeafpyor w t i t . s t la t. h eh onlyis in follower enibe member h o e f H the o m e Secre tary--who Cabinete cre- Were they to suppose that the Hon. Gentleman for North Warwickshire, togetherw during his speech-(Laughter)— doos than they had for Roman but it was because they knew that if t h b a a d t Catholics?l greaterwawa s not rs 0 ; th e y were -to treat India as they treated Ireland this great empire would Very speedily totter to its- foundations.— (Cheers.) But then the Right Honourable Secretary said that the character of the Roman Catholic priesthood was changed, and from his language he left the House to imagine that they had been among' the chief conductors of the insur inßight II 848 Had theon.Gentl eman taken ttie section 1 • . . pains to inquire in to the statistics of Maynooth ? . Was he aw are that Primate Cullen was not brought tip at Blaynooth - ware that in that unfortunate confederacy. at all? Was he a or conspiracy, or w ~ hateverha might choose to call' it, the re connected with Mavnooth who •at all " 'est was only one p ri est sympathised in it, and that was kather lienyon? Yet the had the indecency to come forward on Right Hon. Gentletnan. `election, and tell them that he was for the eve of a general , I ooth priests were disloyal, and an inquiry, because the A ti3n man y sympathisers with abetted rebellion. W he awa re, on the other hand, that lia Trinity College, Dublin, furnis he d Smith O'Brien?- (Hear.) Was he a ware that the' famous . song which rang through all Ireland ~ ~,8 o . . " Who fears to speak,or v t . , . College? was the prod uc ti on o f a " Man educated a t Trinity . all, let. it not (Elear, hear.) If there was to be an a t incialry ; College—let be a one•sidecl inquiry ; let them go to Trauty . laces of them see what was the system adopted at all 4leir.P 13 the Hon. N -- eers-) But a great point was made y . a Hon. Member for ' North Warwickshire, folloWed .by.the. Home Secretary, that they had no right to give the mony of Protestants for the endowmentof err or . Now he at onc e denied that this was protestant (Cheers.) lie denied altogether that the money give n o lritneY ; MaY):looth was in any sense Protestant money. - 8 11 of the public revenue raised • e held . , en di ng the in Ireland for the year the sth of January, 1851, from which it appeare d that the total amount was 3,500 , 0007 , sterling, and on examining the tariff of tptatiop, it wolddte found that the Roman Catholic populatiO4 vontributettbY Air the larger proportion QC that U N, sum. The entire public income of Ireland, including church revenues and other sources, amounted to 5,000,0001. per annum; and of this sum one million was given to the Protestant clergy, and 38,000/. to the Presbyterians, and only 25,000/. to the Roman Catholics; and yet they had the barefaced !resumption. to come down to the liouse and tell them :that this paltry grant was given from Protestant funds.—(Laughter and cheers.) He said it was Ronan • Catholic money; that it was a case of restitution ;. and that if all parties had their just frights, the. Protestant Church would not be endowed as it was that day. He warned the Hon. Member for North. Warwickshire, who professed such great and exceeding love for the Protestant Church of Ire land, that if there was one step more fraught with mischief to that churchsthan'aiaether, it was the step he had taken to-night, and in which be was supported by the Right Hon. the . Home Secretary.-(Cheers:) ' The Hon, Member for North Warwickshire talked -Of • the Various sums which had been given to the Roman Catholic Church. He held in his hand a list of the - sub - is which had beerigiven to that church from the Union down to 1845. And now let. the House see . the treatment which the Roman -Catholics had received at the hands of this House, and .the rigorous s pirit: -With which' they had • treated 'lreland. Since the Union 5,207,000/.. - 'had been ',given ,to tho Esta,b e lished Church. Thu Presbyterian Diesenters bad received 1,0 90001.; and let the House heat, and blush nt the beggarly votes•that had been given inthe Roman Catholics, all they-had received was the sum of 3 . 75,13001. When the Hon. Gentleman summed up ,his speech he told. the House to beware bow they endowed, error.. When he (Mr. Osborne) heard that, he could not help being reminded'at the words of Mr. Grattan in 1797; who„warned the Protestant clergymen to beware how they used such lariguege as the Ilon.Gentle man lad now used, 'Odd reminded them that it was not de cent for them to say; give us all the good things in the name of God, and nothing to the others.—(Cheers.) What ever his views might-be with regard to the amendment of the Hon. Member. for Youghal and ehe-Abetract justice of en-: dowing any religiousdenomination, he certainly wouli never be a party to begin with his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects. If the House really intended to enterinto this subject, them hive an immediate inquiry into the funds of the Esta blished Church, and the Regium DO;11.71 of the Presbyterians as well as of the Roman. Catholic Church. But he would be no party to this attempt to prop up the rotten system of Protestant ascendancy by humiliating the' Roman Catholics. He would not pander •to the party cry of the Government with which' to go to the hustings—a Governtnent acting upon the doctrine of com promise.and expediency, which had • been preached on a late occasion at the Mansion-house, and was now to be practised in St. .Stephen's. He restecishis opposition on-the high ground of truth and justice. If any one took it on the low ground of economy, he would remind them that , it: was hardly con sistent in them to complain of their want of national defences —to propose to add to the expenses of the country by e& rolling 80,000 militiamen, while at the same time they were denuding themselves of their best national defences—the confidence and the .good will of the people of Ireland. The Right Hon. Secretary, of all men, had no business to assent to this motion—he had forsaken-his position its a Minister of .the British Crown,. to become the. , Minfster of a mere party of fanatics._ (Cheers.) , Be realised , the prophecy-of that truly great man the late Mr. Shell , who s aid, in 1845. that if this country should ever fall so low as that Sir Robert Peel should be succeeded by a Minister who would pander to the base passions of religious.bigotry in this country, a party would arise in Ireland of which they had little concep tion—a• party who would call for the repeal of the Union, not on futile grounds, but because that statesman had abdicated the position of a Minister, and Lai split up the empire by pandering to the fanatical passions of a portion of the people.—(Loud cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I beg the indulgence of the House for a moment,. while I speak to a point to which reference has been made by the Hon. Gentle man who has just sat deem. The Hen. Gentleman quoted from a speech of mine which' he said was delivered in 1845, and added that in consequence of what he found in that speech he founded his opposition to this motion. There could be no mistake as to the particular speech referred to, because he very courteously gave the date of it, the 11th of April, 1845, to my Right Hon, Friend ; nor could there be any mistake as to the particular speech intended, be cause he said the speech impugned the intentions of the then Ministry. Theklon. Gentleman then quoted what he called a graphic description of the state of Ireland, and to which the House listened with' attention. Now, there is nothing of what the Hon. Gentleman quoted in that speech; both my Right Hon. Friend 'and myself have gone over it, and there is not a syllable of what the Hon. Gentleman quoted in the speech he referred to us.—(Hear, hear.) - Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE—I reiterate my statement that it is to be found in page 361 of " Hansard." If the Right Hon. Gentleman wishes to get off in his usual quibbling way-(Laughter, and loud cries of " Oh, oh")- 1 beg pardon—in his usual ingenious way--(Cheers, and cries of " Oh")—I may state that the last extract I quoted is to he found in a speech delivered by . him on February 16, 1844, and snrely the Hon. Gentleman will net now eat his Own words.--(0h, Oh.) ' • The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHEQUEB.—The lion. Gentleman Professed to quote from a speech, delivered on the 11th April, 1845.' on the subject of Mayriooth.--:(Loud cheers.) I said there was no passage of the kind to be - found in the speech of April 11th ; and now the Honourable Gentleman says the quotation is to be found in a speech, de livered on the 16th of February, 1844. But -what has that speech to do with the argument I. used on the subject of a lB B 4 t s al ae eme d nt w o h n en wh th ic e h . HonourabledGheisntloepmpaon. seallegedoppo sition. ° l t hused in -(Cheers.) Mr. A. HOPE, who was almost hiaudible, was understood to protest against" a motion • founded' on quotations. from studies connected with a system of faith which had existed for centuries before that illustrious statesman Sir R. Peel proposed the endowment of Maynooth. The Hon. Meniber had occupied two mortal hours in re-echoing the old charges against the Catholics, and cui bono? The only result of such conduct must be to drive to desperation 6,000,000 or 7,000,000 of our fellow-subjects, already smarting under the insulting legislation of last session. Only six days ago the House heard with pleasure the Secretary for the Colonies lay down the sensible and statesmanlike dictum, that no difference should exist between the European and native in habitants of New Zealand as regarded the enjoyment of civil rights, and now it was proposed to treat the Roman Catholics of Ireland with less liberality than was displayed towards the New Zealanders. A 3 for as he could tell, the College of Maynooth had answered its purpose; but, nevertheless, it was to be offered up as a sacrifice to the spirit of the Dur ham letter—to the designing speculation to which the late Prime Minister —in the most petty days of a Ministry un paralled in pettiness—had recourse with the view of prop ping his failing power.— (Hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE said the Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House had not once touched the question be fore it. The Hon. Member for Middlesex had made an amusing speech, but he showed himself throughout to be ignorant of the whole miestion at issue. Amongst the quo tations which the Hon. Gentlemen made, Was one which treated unfairly the Right [Lou. the-Chancellor of the Ex :chequer. It was shown that the extraet read did not apply to the Right Hon. Gentleman.--( Hear, from an Hon. Mem ber) Perhaps the Hon. Member would. improve the extract.—(Mr. Monsen, we believe," it does not require it.") The Motion made by his 'Hon. Colleague was designated a cowardly motion. He had long been proud of his colleague, but he was never so proud of him as he was on that occa sion; for, although struck dow n that day, and driven over, he yet, rather than forego the opp ortunity of bringing for ward the motion before the Ho use, came down to the House - to Maynooth, with that ability for w hich he was so re ) hazards, and brought forward the question relative markable.—(Cries of " Hear , hear.") And this was the man that was taunted with cowardice.— (Hear, hear.) The motion was met by an amendment by the Honourable Member' for Youghal, whose objec t was to. get rid of the motion by a side-wind.—(Heat, hear.) It was said, that Sit. Robert Peel opposed a motion for inquiry into Maynooth College. in 1845. But were there no reasons Since 1845 that would warrant an inquiry into the system of educatiOn at Maynooth, even if there was no ground for doing so in that year? •- He-asked the Honourable Member for Athlone if he could deny this fact? The late Mr. Sheil, in speaking of the College of Maynooth hi that House, in reference to Den's Theology, said he was no more to •be bound to defeud every . text in a college book than he was to defend every text in Coke or Blackstone.—(Hear, hear. But the Right Honourable Gentleman added that.if there was any doubt as regarded the teaching in Maynooth, whY , let' an inquiry be instituted into the matter, and very Catholic Member . would Support . a.nfotien to that effect. Well, that was all the Motion' . before the House pro 7 posed. But Mr. Shell' was dead; and so was Dr. Murray. But they had still Dr. Mfliale and the 'Defence Assd elation, and they had, too; ,Mr. Cahill, who called on the Catholics of Ireland to bide their time in the 'event of . foreign invasion.--(llear, hear.) The Motion of his Hon. Friend left the House no option. After the facts stated by his Hon. Friend supported, as his motion was, by the feel ing of the country—it would be impossible to negative the proposition before the' Muse. The :Honourable, Gentleman then proceeded to contend that the system pursued at May-- meth made the priests tyrants' over - the people, who '7irere now flying to America away from the influence of the priests; and 'it was • a faCt, Abet the Catholics, when . they went to America, left. the Church in which they were brought up, and -passed over to Protestantism—()h.) These facts could not -be dank& The priests ,of Ireland, were now *letting their ‘faces against emigration. To show the desire,of the priests for domination, he.need,OnlY referie the scene which took place at'ardbiner gii;en to the iron. Iletuber.for Athlone. wair`eirtinged that'it"gentlemiits, named'Roach,:phould.return thanks for the press, but the - priests insisted on Mr.. Lucas being heard . in replftollie toast.' 'Now, Mr. Lucas was the editor of the TaM t, Whieh, l be. hesitated not to say, was filled with most disgracefaslibels. He hoped the House would support the motion. • Mr , MONSELL would pushy; the speech of the Hon. Genl. demon with but a single remark respecting his-allusion to the Rev. Mr. Meehan, - He (Mr. Monsen) would pledge him -self that the words quoted by the Hon. Gentleman were never used by the Rev. Mr.'Meehan. ' - Mr: NE WDEGATE„, amid loud tries . of " Order," said he would establish 'the accuracy of the 'statement he made. • • ' Mr. MONSELL was certain the words were never nsed. , .He.wag aurptised that the Right'llon.'Gentleinan the Seem , : Lary for the Home Department should, considering his high; position, have ratified by his statement the abusive harangue - made against one-third of her Majesty's subjects by the , Honel ,Member.for North ,Warwickshire,— (Hear, hear, .from this Opposition benches,) - It was quite manifest that the• object! of . the motion was not to inquire into Maynooth, but to; dimbliah the number Of Roman' Catholic 'clergymen, But; what Wes 'the conduct of 'every other country where' there. was a minority professing a treed different frona the rest of • the people? Why, in every' instance that' minority was, treated with 'consideration. They had schools granted for their children,' and their clergymen were' supported at the , expense of• the state.. Why did not 'England,'which .made' •purpor s io eS so ,,,s t li w oV m d i ' s t i h r e ab E ie ng g l r i a S ti h c o l ) Bitch -Loud professions of dvil- and religious liberty, do the' not think the 'present Tories t t h h o e s e sameavho same? Why, after taking away from the Roman Catholics of-Ireland the funds.. given by - their ancestors for religious' in that House that awe . `were f eo 2 p f6 l o e ilt i loo n ow o i w i. .attempt : be e miter examplept to ; take a d k i i bore that ursine. ' had been once stated ago. But p f leikl a e c s a w n pich the Whigs did' a '' hundred Years the 'reties of 'the present' day professed , bete the head had been some generations ago, but the • head • and distance." Neither Pitt,RoPmeerineval, nor- Ali tail ,were still at an equal ciety:was so eon s t ant i a Y'' in reply, remarked that " so tail sanction religion nobody: was now y- advancing in knowledge that the Lord Cleve, whose _ tion ion ei the withdrawal of the vehemence ,against the could deny, would, if livin motion for inquiry, ) end he spoke for grant to Maynooth: He ('fr. connected himself alone—would not oppose the the more, b w e i c th au l s i e e h;C ed believed i i t n h r a e t a t ig h a e t : d m a o e red'everyt hing inquired and of the it would be seen that the inatitulioh was ho re fie conducted, and in accordance with the inte s titros founders. received a letter from the Catholic Arch ie bishop of Armagh, expressive of his opinion that the e mo l t 9l ll should not be opposed, because everything connected with.. i° the College of Maynooth was as public as possible, and 'nothing done that could fear investigation. The only con dition he would make on the subject was, that the Committee should-be a fair one, and he trusted that a majority of the 'House would take Care that those persons who prejudged' the' qualt,i94 41101C1In 9Xcludcd frcwa the Calmittoo. LONDON, Wi?.,DNES SAY and ai nt ean 1-;it Mr. DUFF moo E dßi S tEiosanindf itht s ei a ,, i aw d dnbr ia ede e enp s ar h ol o rpe u na l e d deyd v bca o y te ll med f r o .t r ou t t h he e ye m wn t i i. on ' atten tionvr i l I th l o r the Mr. j t A he aUd House that the Hon. Member for 'Nadi); War wickehire altered that intention, coming, as he did, down to Mt a g d rin p t l . ace li d n e we n v o er tlee h o e n ntdhwe..paapppeererteodretpeeahl a.tvhee. - it - s - peeth - ielVeuring of Rader- ball, ~EMoatoynirwoothitlahi mo tion Mortaring still' more Strongly . of . Downing-street. _ people of this country should be taxed for ( T g htt ea p r lei l p V ie h a W t a l fr t s h i t iT h i e t w e notprinciple et. r p ev ed a i ll e i t l i l t% ° r ut wise th d a o t ° t r re ' of a religion which they did not believe to be true. was a ^ lardad and clear basie to go upon, and one . .in w hich hi h the people of 'entirely concur. ' But what need was there of inquiry to establish that? WAS the re _. `any personiwho denied- t h a t t h e re l ig i on t aug ht at M.." nooth -was unbelieve c t i n b y t h e people ' o f thi s country. It had been states ihat the object in foundieg the . Colle ge of Maynooth was to pt eserve the I rish c l erg y_ from tne taint of.lptramontanism- by educating them in their ow n, country.- .W so, that obj ec t,h a d . won d er f u lly . s ucceeded, f or it. would be tinpossible - to find a body of men more ,racy -of the soil, or more thoroughly incorporated with the people than the Roman Cathelic .priests of Ireland,.--01'r,1. Six years ago' the 'Govehritent of this country obtaine d niscript front 'Rdmo, the intention of which W 45 to letter Irishthe - ecclesiaati ce i n t h eir palitical priVilege.s; and th e prweof this cdulairY was MOSE,. ITitramontane to its' attacks on thelrieh elergy , becxttse Of their disobedienee 'Co the C ourt of Rome.-(Laught e r. 'and - sheers' from' theOptiosition.) Again, it was only thetitheredarthat a Peer' tit England was found. clandestinely engaged in supplicating the infitt - ence tittle:l - 01y See ,as.-regarded the obstinacy of the.lrish, priesthood--(lleac, hear. ) If the object of that House was to denationalise 0r..t0 unpopularise 'the Irish clergy, .it had commenced at the wrong end. "The ' Irish clergy had for • Yea-rube& the IPadere - of the pee le i , for th!s reason - that the people had no other-teadera. ' ' - lava of this country Made' it penal to • thaelra-Rortian • tithtificld raad or write; but the clergy, nevertheleigi'eathe'lri.tifid , tinght than how to live and die.-e(ilear;hear.) :-Thelavre of .. this - country. attempted-to make Roman Oetholicrsavages and serfs; but .the clergy intervened, they marshalled theta into a nation, , and,-..taught „them to be a people,--(Hear, hear.) .Let the State change its pOlicyle t it come-over and lead the people , aricrihe clergy would most 'willingly deliver up the keys of in 1 the m e r i . ta G d L el 4 .-..e( Ds iLea N r, E__ _hea s r. r ) r, ir, propose to favour of the "motion introduced by the'Efon g . iv G e en ni t 7 l Member for. North . Warwickehire. But" the subject is of . importance, `and' I.differ so widely in the spirit of .the speech with which the lion. GeOleman has introduced and re commended his Motion, thht I cannot Suffer it to be pu t . to the vote in silence.--(Hear, heir.) Sir, I am not here to contend that Parliament is bound by any compact to the inainteuaneel Of the. Act that secures this .endowment. Ido Gentleman nivaonte th e not ;now - raise the question of what is - due to those indivi duals who are indebted to the maintenance of this college for itlitrelihoed., I speak of the permanent-mainte,naneeefth grant; and I disclaim all doctrines of compact.--(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, "I must add, it appears to me that unless you can Show by proofs that the objects and purp oses o f the endow- 'talent have -failed, and that the expectatioris 'you entertained have been frustratectL.unless you can show all these, them prudenet • and justice -demand the maintenance of the endowment.- (Hear, . hear.) 'lt appears to me - that if. failure cannot be shown-and I must say it would be a .subject , of very grave- and serious-apprehension if this failure were showd, beeande I confess I am surprised at the . manner and tone in which the question has been approached -that the , grant •ought not to. withdrawn.-(Hear.) It appears to me that lion. Gentlemen seem to think it a small matter to withdraw this endowment, but th ey forget that its importance is not meaauredhy the figures that designate its • endowment. They forget it is of material service as regards the arraggementa existing .between England and Ireland.- (Hear.) For my . own part I dO not say if this endloWe ment can be shown to, be mischievous, an d t h e expectat io ns formed have failed, that it ought to be maintained ; but I do venture to say that if Parliament withdraws the endowment, it mast be prepared 'to' enter into the whole Subject, and be prepared to reconstruct the ecclesiastical . arrangemetita-- (Hear.) I am not speaking of what is right --orj What is wrong-I am not speaking of what is - to be desired or what , is to be deprecated. • , For .my own' part,- I - deeply deplore_ the series of changes into which such a course would pre-., cipitate ‘us. But having - these antielpatious of the conse quences of such a polienif- we-begin in the form which I fear the Hon. Member for. North Warwickshire would propose, I think itis but honest that I should state them to the House. - (Hear, hear.). Now, Sir, I must say., it appears to me that this endowment.-(Hear, hear.) We_ have:not yet con no serious case has been made out to prove the failure of i pleted the cycle of seven years since this endowment was en larged. I think I en' correct in saying that: not a single °lift theolo g ye re tli college titight , the endowment - and I mai sure, Sir, since the enlargement of- _ this sattutdheentt seminary interested ir in ae . the ielt, particular m ey nooth who course' e no reasonable act by magic on the sentiments . , , and habits of a whole gene man could that endowment was to e lt h i i s et p o a ry in n fu f l i - r f e o i r an m d e' a t n o d h n e j a re r n t rn he ... ration - and an entire people. language in which parts of Pi ti stances in the:state of Ireland have been referred to in the` course of this night's debate.- Nothing is more easy, God' knews, than •to make inflamm ato ry . arid exaspera ting statements , with - - regard' 'to the - -'condition of end nothing is more easy that unhappy country,- - They may ban ,to _:retaliate upon those statements. draw cheers and counter - sheers ; 'llnd-may gratify feelings of ? (Hearh ') There, sage and :happiness'' of the einuitry f ' ear 'passed was a time, Sir , when the preambleof one o the Acts ._ zealots and partizans , but what does _all this c o ntribute to the . the exact" something after this -manner; I do not quote . inha bitants Whereas. the Popish :words, but give the substance-" in the Irish Parliament relating to the militia was framed Ile that- the said inhabitahts , and whereas it itf• most -probable will again and in a future time re bel; therefore be it en- of thia . country have often broken out in rebellion, wails. But words was no longer represented. within these acted -." Sir, I lipped that the sp irit whic h dictated these bat feel re lation with sedition and , rebellion, I could not War wickshire speak of, th e _p r iests -of Maynooth and their re the danger we ran, nolesS we put a guard upon our selves when 'approaching such inflaming questions, of being hurried back into - a temper of mind which in our cooler moments we should deprecate, and of hazarding disastrous consequences to - the - country which in those cooler, moments we should deprecate.. Sit, I think the Hon. Memo ber has mentioned points, and I think also there are other points which might.forrn legitimate sucj ec ts for Parliamen tary . tary inquiry in connecti on with the C o ll e ge 'of Maynooth I frankly own, however, that I should re f e r inquiry to have taken place at a somewhat later period . It that nothing can be more entirely consonant 'with wisdom than that you - should wait at least until the pupils, in some two or three years,: have • suceesafully gone through thei r _ training, in order to attain some - practical experience of , proceed is scarcely ripe. ' At the same time, their pastoral efficiency, and . their general conduct as appears to me compared. with that of the - older priests reared under the former' syetem. This course,' I think,`it would be wise to- follow, for at .presone the evid ence : on which we. could is made, we must not, only consider the expediency which dictated it, but,take a large view of the public interests, 'and the consequences. hich might. follow- from resisting it.-, (Hear,,. heat) .-I.tonfes; they fo re that I thiek- air Hon. .Triei- whb -spokes litt elrfrotia•th:i h" - ppOsite bench, acted, wisely. when he eclinikelled; . considering-the strong feeling thrown in the wey,. If it be ° has been alleged' .there was ie this country in favour - of inquiry, that it as for the interest of Maynooth th a t o bstacles ehould not be when a motion the establishment is extra tr u e , a s if it be true (although; I believe, there- v i egantly , larg e' evidence to shOWY, that at Maynooth there are the 8 .11° a s ev a t only of educating Roman CathOlic . priests fi.o. Ireland ta ut that there is a sun. plus for England and the c olonies-that;' --th tf I. say' ought not Whether that be so o 8 ' a however; the' Subjeet .is one of legitimate 'inquiry: 1 1;"? are -entitled to Inquire whether the 2 , 6;000/. a- year see mom ically, judiciouely, that and e ff ectively employed for the •curposes which Parlianient , intended. Ney,i 1110 re i. , I - say —^beWNorth Warwickshire those to which the lion,. At has referred rand espect to the r for at Blatmooth, as to civil duties obligat• teaching thank slightest lons of allegiance; I do not ~ the' . disposition 'Would •be shown to 'withhold. la- . quiry, although I confess my own belief that the'lloni , Member would . fiud-, te •'. • ' t inquiry' ' at upo n that point . . would end .where , it here eali; the' 'louder/tote Member has spoken t e . - ri • ')--.--' h i , .cominis- P hen` allegations *such as . the- •report of t .- ei°nerl °I . ' clucati°ll metier in • 1827. has dific id whether he harg the du ty of wading thronghat. If he had I think he would have fo und that.these Commis sioners had sounded thuvery d it ' vei) wai of teaching with respect to oaths; and I doubt whether he ill attain different con eltisiett tlinh those ^ arrived itt by. these. Commissioners. Theseare points - which intvp-h:., f Y; ' ''''lttutred into; but I confess but . .I.F.d . oubt when I pass from these points to, the general tone and spirit appears to me his-main -charge against , Maynooth Iva°, of the speech of . the that in it thatucated the doctrines of .the - Roman Catholic faith.--( Hear, h 11"Obra ble:.,Gentlentan; I Must say it -ea r-) -e• Sir, it was and is'a question of ,the ..gravest ~cha r ac t er whether Parlia ment should enter into-relations , with ' the Romae Catholi c Church on that subect. But the fue..t; e etall -- ' unt i e n . of minu te 9. It li a question for the highest ' legislative Wisdom anctatites ~, e ._ 41 - ";P and ought nOt to be' referred to the inquiry and' rep ort , 01 - ! t - :, ~ ny Select Coinmittee. And here I come to the limitations 1 ---;°°{lc 'el .not depend upon an seams . Which must be . imposed , on thisinquhy. , Now; in the first place, I find that the Hon. - :seconded. him, , both looked ~n 1 Gentleman who moved the inqui ry, pon th is ' inquiry - eifaply as a. Isilltsies of eetithlishing certetno char on which they had Made Up their minds L A anstr AS a firet„at en i n the process, they, and the Noble Lerd who , mopes! a, repeal. the Act and the withdrawal of the grant. ; ./ ,hepe, §ir, the Hon.oOntletnen kill °uninderthe Gentlema n gulvidha°rie.:::::aseeYsi not think Lam treat 4ng hinitrith disrespect, when I say that a Seliet COMnaittee, A SelectCommitthe to be entrusted to his guidance:l" , n:u. cviewsm appointed m like itte Committee n hwe t eh h ei , e .c. h mast mo s t h i oonnuni not be f b a e : a'l'i e n; . 11 6 it 1 ; 0 ei 1 individual Meleber , ""kklear; hear) It is ar &bit national subjectis too large, and too . iiitip`oe ' " r a , n e tt"te r s ti e l Y ttr t exi bet to til . l e t ' . ; question ,whether .we 's hall Or shall net withdraw s the cendowinent of ,A Y,116(4- It is.a question which at all - 'time imaight tobe - dealt with by the v .-- .xCcatiye Government ; and.l would -venture to-claim that the` inquiry nowpro tt . . that justlee tnat'vre ehould- poiect eliall,. likewise fie .. e4 .P.. a ." . ,ted, tinder the immediate - Executive GOiern- . metite-411ear, hear.) . W ere libie Sir'- , to do impartial ' tice-to consider a , ~ , us like England Scotland, ' sitiirifitendenee.rod responsibility of the and Ireland. institute in; It is - consistent w ith - quiry into the s t a te rif . the But it and the system of education there. 1.1 of such would not - be consistent with justice that the conduct ett_, an inquiry should be entrusted to any e rarliament ,however eminent re 61 - the ' Subje o ct whose '' and however gre at gt . It °' consistent is pledged to a foregone conclusion. not is under such with justice that point i o r rt, and inquiry ishoeld be cond u c ted . h h it is auspi ces. ,essential to y, I conten d, There is jith not to 9 into the general - ehafacter • c nceive b that the inquiry ought e Worship' 'and exercise of the Rof the doctrine, or' h in.th Gon e -mall another lithitatiOn lb w m l e c e. n r( d o - tu Catholic 'religion as practised i whichgefeind . ed e eof Ilaynooth.,-- (Hear, heat) ye - 'nee. I h ought not to be entrusted to a .Seleet s-Eati al - . , oh a .. exer .av:' used the words e o A isernlin 0, •' ~.. else .of the . Roman '__‘ doctriee, , e r- t heep are the wide and . comprehensive Catholic reigical,N,h.. s tn • fe. Nor are we witho u t precee . words Contained r an_t_2_ , endurable' Gentleman - • ' dentin - thfS ca.se.' 'rue - . ~. tar , i n to ne,ayStem of education a t - May we should inq , rant t hat you may place a construction nooth, and I fully F , mo f -education," if not ruled and ' - these Words ' sys t e m . . _ upon - e.orAets of Parliament, by the sense of limited by the eons by the precedents bearing on the case. '- Still an inquir y, 1 the country, and grant that under these words the Honourable Gentleinan . • might be able to introduce such a largeness . of theological would' satisfy oven • all appetites- in - that 'investigation„ a s -; l , .h e ar . ). But, Sir, this is not the fi rst time ;that there 1 , _ Ia:1827 you . had the reeOrt of that there has been inqui ry... y the College of "Maynooth, and la Royal Conimission upon., din the Teport, and the eir ,what wer e the views centime - hich the Commissioners tided?' I will letunstances tinder w „. ; w ere quite as large as the Honour- Oho* that fhb itistruetiOns , able Member himself eo old w ish Crown The Cwn in app o i n tin g the Commis s ion, havidgee r ited the address of the 'H ouse o f 'ommons, and nominated the, individuals; directed them to anquire i n t o th e na ture Wil d ex tent of the instractione aff o rd e d . by the ',Se vera l institutions in .Ireland established for the maintained either in whole or in purpose of education and T hey were to-inquire into the part from the ..public .fundt afforded - by th -- these in nature and wen; of the instru ctio n E V 1 I'N* stitutions. But, notwithstanding that direction, when the Commission came to report, they prominently and. I think, wisely stated : " Wedid not consider that it fell 1 1 within our province to examine into th e t ene t s o f t h e R oman Catholic religio n , except when they app eare d to b e connecte d with the civil d u ti es and relations of Roman Catholics, either towards the State or towards their fell subjects." I con fess it appears to me th a t these wordy. l s o Tim - partially and pre cisely state the scope of thi s inquir ou are entitled t o in quire into the system of education, and of Roman Catholic teaching, so far as it touches " the civil duties and relations" of the inmates of the college. Beyond that you are not en titled tq go, and into the domain of theology is the spirit you. should be precluded from entering..-- (Hear, hear.) t and intention in which form er A c t s o f Parlian have been framed. But I understood th e Hon. Memb e e for r North Warwickshire to contend for so me thi ng lik e a viei Catholic power with moped to the system of the Roman Church as taught and exercised in the College of .nooth. I understand it to be the gist of his argument th 3 a ' t the Committee should have-power to inquire into that sys tem. But I say, on the contrary, that if you want to fulfil and, adhere to the intentions of the Le g i s l a t ure , y ou h are no riglet to touch that, except where the system bears upon the queation of civil obedience and the relations.of Cetholics - towards their. fellow-aubjecte. Whet. however, ere the provisions o" the Acts which have been passe 1 ? The Act of 1795 appointed trustees with visitatorial power? The - Irish Parliament again in 1800 constituted cue body of trustees to hold the property, and another to exercise the visitatorial power. In the:Act of 1845 that power wan continued, but the superior power of Parliament, wan res served - a special provision being inserted, enabliagethe Lord Lieutenant to ;order. a special visitation. The Act of 1845 contained the reservation that the reports of the visitbkalMuld annually laid on the table of both Houses of Parliainent.' I consider that reservation' to have been a distinct recognitioo of the principle that the intention of Parliament was to reserve its own full- and unimpaired rights over the institution which it had founded, and that therefore (setting ,apart the policy of the case), it is plain you are ,exercising a power to which yon are entitled in appointing a Committee.--( Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Membir for North Warwickshire was quite in error when he represented, or intended to represent, that Parliament had appointed no means of Visiting the college with respect to Roman Catholic discipline and instruction, and that, therefore, it was the duty of Parliament to step in with this Select Committee. On the contrary, if be reads the Acts he cannot fail to perceive that Parliament has consti tuted a visitatorial power for specific purposes,- and - that that power is finaL In the Act of .1800, and the Act of 1845, Parliament stated that any matter which regarded the exercise of the Roman Catholic religion, doctrine, and dis cipline, should not be touched by the body of visitors at large, bat by Roman Catholic visitors exclusively. No thing, I think, can be more clear than the statutes and precedents with regard to this question—nothing can be more clear than that Parliament, when it entered into these arrangements, did not intend to place the members of the Roman Catholic Church perpetually on tenter-hooks, end bring it into opposition with the religious sentiments of the people of this country. Parliament approached the sub ject in a statesmanlike spirit. It proceeded in the belief that the Roman Catholic religion was a system well known 'in history—was a system whose merits had been tested by a sufficiently long experience to enable Parliament to say aye or nay to the question whether it would have relations with it or not. Proceeding in that spirit, Parliament did not condescend to accompany the boon with insufferable conditions, and degrading and painful reservations, but it provided a security against the assaults of theological rivalry, and respected the feelings and doctrines of those persons for whom the endow ment was intended. Parliament ash left to us ad clear patour - and clear rules by which we old now irect Course. It is in conformity with those rules that I consent to the inquiry of the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire. But I assent to it with the strongest expression of my opi nion, that we should proceed on the principle of former years, namely, that of placing this great and important interna tional question, not in private and individual hands, but un der the control and responsibility of the Executive Govern ment. I think, in obedience to that principle, we ought to make our inquiry bond fide into the application of the Par liamentary grant for purposes which fall within the visita tion which Parliament has provided, adhering at the same time to the terms and spirit of those important enactments which do not permit any Select Committee to depart from that spirit and those terms.—(Cheers.) Mr. GRATTAN and Sir R. Learns rose together, and al though the latter Hon. Gentleman was strongly called for, he gave way to the Hon. Member for the county of Meath. The Hon. Gentleman said he was surprised at the course taken by the Govern cent on this question ; they were wrong in their principles, their premises, and their conclusions.—(A laugh.) Parliament came to a settlement —an Irish settle ment—when they thought Ireland was going over to France, and now they thought she might go again in the same direc tion they again interposed. They knew nothing of what they were about.—(A laugh.) It was said that Maynooth educated such a superabundance of priests that it afforded a supply for the continent; whereas the fact was, that of the priests actually' found necessary for the instruction of the Roman Catholic 'poilulation of Ireland, no fewer than 140 had been edneatedon the continent. They talked of loyalty ; what did they mean by loyalty ? What loyalty had their ancestors shown to the unfortunate'monarch James II.? As to the oath of allegiance,- the best oath of allegiance they could adniinister. to the Roman Catholic clergy would be a system of good government. Sir R. H. INGLIS said that his Right Hon. Colleague, 'while admitting that there was no compact or contract be tween the Imperial Legislature and the College of Maynooth which at all precluded the Imperial Legislature from acting as it might think fit towards that college, had prevented any. They must take care what they did in the matter, because if they withdrew the grant. to Maynooth, they must also re=arrange the whole ecclesiastical system in Ireland ; the proposition had been vehemently cheered by the Gentlemen sitting immediately behind his Right Hon. Friend, because they foresaw in it the further confiscation of the property of that Church—a confiscation begun some fiftee* years ago, and which they would fain complete. Confiscation, he would readily believe, was not in the mind of his Right Hon. Friend, but it was prominently in the mind of his Right Hen. Friend's cheerers.—(Hear hear.) His Right Hon. Friend spoke of Maynooth as having been established by Act of Parliament, and so had the Great Western Railway or the Eastern Counties Railway; but Maynooth was not so established tilt the last seven years. Afterwards he admitted the case stood upon different ground, but up to 1845 there was no shadow of a foundation fur the claim as a right ; and now it was perfectly within the discretion' of Parliament to pass a Bill to repeal the Act. -But that was not the object of the present motion. The Se cretary of State for the Home Department, in a speech, the language, tone, and manner of which were most temperate end judicious, had clearly shown that the existing system' of visitatorial inquiry did not in the slightest degree touch the object which the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire wished to bring before the House—that it was limited almost entirely to the external fabric of the e.etablishnient,'and did not affect- the- vital essence of the motion.—(Heat, hear.) He (Sir R. Inglis) objected to the present motion, however, that on the 11th of May, with the prospect of a dissolution imminent in the course of the next three weeks or a month, it was not desirable to engage in such an inquiry as was con .templated._ Still. when-he saw that the leaders of both parties end the Hon. Member for the county of Limerick concurred in that motion, he should vote for it sea recogni tion of the principle of inquiry, though he believed that nothing more could result from it this session. Mr. HUME believed it was the sound policy of this country to conciliate Ireland, and to remove all causes of discontent, so as to make her, as she ought to be, a tower of strength to England, instead of being% ad she had been, a source of weakness. The present proposition deserved a much more serious consideration than it had received: It was not a common inquiry that was proposed. We had given to the Irish people an establishment in which they might educate priests for their own religion, but Parliament had never prescribed to them in what manner they should teach. —(Hear.) For some time past they had been considering how best to strengthen the defences of the country, and, he asked, was it wise at such a time to press this motion, see- Mg that every Irish Member who had spoken regarded it as calculated' to promole increased discontent in that country ? He looked upon the motion as most ill-timed and most un just, as tending to persecution and not to information, and he should, therefore, vote against it.—(Hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I rise for the purpose of stating very shortly the grounds why I constitute one of . those exceptions, which my Honourable Friend by me was at a loss to find,, who is prepared not to agree to this motion. It is my intention, if the House divides, to vote both against the amendment and the original motion.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I think that this House is entering on a very unwise and dangerous course.—(Hear, hear.) I think they are entering on a course which, if a Committee be granted, nmust either end in a nullity or in very dangerous conse .quences. I think that no ground was laid for the motion of the Honourable Member for North Warwickshire in the speech which he made. I think, of that speech, that it certainly ,does bring to mind the opinion entertained, by some;Ahat the shades of departed men are wont to hover over the scenes of their earthly occupations ; and if the shade of Dr. Duigenan had been hovering over this debate, I can imagine the grim delight with which his spectre would have surveyed the scene.-411eari hear, and it laugh.) I-thought we had got back to the times when the Catholic question NM debated, and that they were not discussing the loci dental and, single question of the endowment .of the th : C..ollege fi of, Mayppeth e fey what was thaliaeenf argument Did e einber for e North Warwickshire adop tedg 'San any details of the system of education at, Maynootb —O . f a system of education peculiar to that establishment? Did he tell us what were the doctrines inculcated by the lecturers 'in what way the course of education was likely to defeat the purposes for which the establishment was-framed? If he did, I must confess that those parts o f his s p eech -did 'not catch my attention, but-I'did hear long •and thelaboratindis sertations on the fundamental doctrines of.the Catholic'_reole gion ; I did bear quotations from . writers = whom 8.11 Gentleman described as the Bacons of the Catholic Chiiran , and I presume , therefore , that the . _main ground on which this inquiry is , proposed by him is, he believes, and no doubt sincerely, that there are in the Catholich religion, or at least in Catholic authoritiee, tenets which e considersow. to r d b o e 'at variance with - the welfare of a Protestsnit not like enter into that question , bnt lam that it is not by that were a question fitles be entered on, at qeite sure, if it can be pro wl inquiry into the College of Maynooth a t a le perly entertalned.— (Hear, hear.) It Weviiii,:htedichthisaaset °enre, great intended to be remedied—anwer _ o f.llltramontane Wend still to be prevailing—is _the p . o and foreign influences and authorities eaelgreel:frimd.avnliuoot,thstll wn remedy that by abolishing the Coll who and I am entitled to say that the withdrhe from the College of Maynooth is the o eec d by the support watiofd i-thhoeseg this motion, because . that was fairly avowed Noble Lord evho seconded 'Hear, hear.) He put the question bd wal of the grant, fairly. He said, This is . the first step; and the object I had in VOW' is the entire wit ra .Then, what is to be . and the repeal of the existing e law." will they come home the' result of that? You a a r itoaaddrive your Irish Catholic priests to be educittld. with ITltramontane doctrines , from abroad less imbued It they had been educated and foreign influences aln__ It is absurd to suppose at Maynooth? -(Cheers.,) arise' from, such a proceed that ouch' a result told also that some of those lug.' W hen we mreelooth, 'instead' of being 'employed who are educated at e in Ireland; are" sent elsewhere, I think 'that has bean infor Mayo, who answered blanY Hon: Yriend the Member e showed that the total-number of priests required for the gearer.a)ter than the number educated at supply of Ireland wa.! As to the conduct of the Irish Maynooth. — ( aellr, bishops, with which great fault has so justly been found, I cannot see the conoexionbetwheuent we e a c t t a n n a d ot th s e h e u n t d o o u n r , m ey en e t r c e a r s ems from ees t b h e of the College of Maynooth;to and t th s to the real tause of this ug g ra est 6 ed i . n' This m o otio e n which it has been:s has feeling out of doors which among the PrOtestant portionof the people of this country hall not shrink from characterizing as the aggres at what I s roceedings of the (ive and vielent p Church of Rome.— (Cheers. ) I do not wonder that these proceedings should have produced a deep impression of resentment—nay, of indignatioia, on the part of the Protestant portion of the community; but don't7hecause the Church. of Rome has done that of which the pebple of England have a just right toot emplain—don't, I say, pun i s h t h e Catho lic you th Ireland who Are intended for the priest- Al A Y 1-) hood.—(Hear, hear.) I contend that it' Would be not only unjust but impolitic to do so; because you would thereby inflict an injury upon yourselves; you would aggra vate the very evil, one of the circumstances connected with which is the cause of the anger which is at present felt in many parts of the country,—(Hear, hear.) I must say that this motion appears to me a motion of vengeance— (Cheers)—and as a motion of vengeance I think it impolitic, (Hear, bear.) And it is not only because it is a yin- . dictive motion that I think it an impolitic motion, but be cause it is at variance with all those principles of sound na tional policy upon which the Government and Parliament of this country has hitherto acted in regard to this question. 'lt is upon that ground =that broad and general ground—that I sin prepared to resist the motion which is now about to VC proposed to the House. My view of the question is not altered by the very proper and honourable offer which has been made by the Catholic Members of this House on the part of the Catholic priesthood of Ireland, to lay the institu tion open to the fullest and freest inquiry. No ground, in my opinion, bag been laid for an inquiry at all at this parti cular moment. I don't dispute the right of the House to in quire. Any institution which is supported in any degree by public money must submit to inquiry, if sufficient ground is laid for making the inquiry. There may be. ground in this ca-:e, or not •I am not able to spell( as to that. All I contend for is, that' no ground for it has been laid in any thing which has been stated in the course of the present de- PIT; r Buie if inquiry . be thought to be necessary, a Right ricnd of mi ne h as po i nted out ' that there ex i s t s an other authority under G ove r nment capa bl e o f ma ki ng it ; and I my say that in my humble opinion there is no ma chinery for nickinginquiry of this kind to utterly oh, jeetionahle as a Committee of the tiorse of Commons. (Hear, hear.) lv Why. we shod have fif.een gentlemen sitting uj f,tairs, .., summoning officers of Illaynoo.n before them the different and examining them according spirit t h e of i nct i u n i q r3 u , each member of the Committee. Either to the varying fancy and be conducted with all that respectful abstinence which becomes an inquiry si) deeply and intimately co inquiry y ou o ld f connected with the religious opinions of men differing probably from their examiners, and, if so, you would not'getn creed e e h d e results which the promoters of the motion wish in attain ; or it would be conducted upon a' different' principle, a a l ia n d then the result would be that you would have theological inquiries, which must be highly offensive not only to the persons examined but to those who belonged to the same faith in Ireland ; and I must say that in either case it would be most unwise and most inexpedient that the inquiry should be proceeded with.--(Hear, hear.) But the people of Ireland will not believe that the mere motive and object and effect of the motion, if carried, will be to inquire into the College of Maynool.—(Hear, hear.) They will look upon it as the yielding of the House of Commons to what, if it were sot disrespectful so to call the prevalence of sincere opinion, I would describe as a fanatical cry.—(Hear.) Bat the people of Ireland are clearsighted enough to see that were the House of Commons to adopt this motion they would be merely yielding to a popular feeling created by the circumstances of the moment, and if they are charitable enough not to think that the Members of this House have yielded to that cry, or that many persons who are going to vote for this motion have not been much moved thereto by considerations of the approaching election, they will be giving them greater credit than in my conscience I think they desorve.—(Cheers and laughter.) I again say that if any Members of this House shall call for a division on this motion, I shall think it my duty to vote against it, and that I earnestly hope, in spite of the handsome offer on the part of the Catholic . Members to submit the institution to the fullest inquiry, the House will either resist the motion altogether, or, if an inquiry be thought expedient, that that inquiry will be conducted by the Commissioners appointed by Government, because it is obvious that a subject of such a delicate nature, involving questions so deeply affecting the interests of a large portion of the community, is not a ebb ject suited to the rough handling of the Members of a Select Committe of this House.—(Cheers.) Mr. Sergeant MURPHY moved the adjournment of the debate. wa T tc h h e ed CH th e N debateCE LL O w R i t h o f g r t e h a e t E a EXCHEQUER d i said e h m e e dh to him that it had one remarkable characteristic, and that was that almost every speak er h a d b een o f the same opinion, and, therefore, it seemed to him extremely advisable to conclude the debate that night, if possible.—(Hear, hear, and cries of "Adjourn I") Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL had some strong objections to urge against the motion, and hoped the debate would be ad journed to afford him the opportunity of doing so.—(Hear.) Mr. REYNOLDS said he was anxious, on a great and important question like that, to hear from the Chief Se cretary for Ireland, or in his absence the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Irish Attorney-General, some explanation of the speech which had that night been delivered by the Secretary of State for the Home Department. He wished to know whether or not the opinions of the organ of the Irish Government in that House harmonised with the " No- Popery" speech of the Home Secretary, because, after having listened to that speech with attention and pain, he could not help coinciding with the noble Lord ( Palmerston) ; in thinking that the spirit of ancient and the worst times of bigotry and intolerance had been revived in this discussion. In conclusion, Mr. Reynolds said he should support the ad journment of the debate, and challenged the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Mr. Spooner) to fix an early day for resuming it. Mr. DRUMMOND also supported the adjournment of the debate. He was one of the few persons in that House who had served an apprenticeship to the dulness and the endu rance of Dr. Duigenan; but when this debate should be re sumed he would prove that a bigotry more fierce than Dr. Duigenan's was now in full operation in Ireland—the fiercest that ever Hildebrand delighted in, or the blackest times of Popery had ever put in action.—(sear, hear.) Mr. KEOGH, after some observations in favour of the adjournment of the debate, said that, as he had understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in what had fallen from him at an earlier period of the evening, intended to repudiate the sentiments which his Hon. Friend ( Mr. Osborne) had attributed to him, in order that there might be no mistake on the subject, he would read to the House the passage in the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech to which his Hon. Friend alluded. The Right Hon. Gentleman was speaking on the case of Ireland, upon a motion which was brought forward by the Noble Lord the Member for London (LordJ. Russell). The Right Hon. Gentleman stated that they had heard a great deal of Catholic associations, and anti-corn-law le.igues, and political unions; but those things were tLe consequence of the people putting the government of the country into the hands of those who did not know how to wield it; and then, alluding to the Catholic question, observed—one said it was a physical question, and another that it was spiritual. Now it was the absence of an aristocracy, and then the absence of railroads—it was the Pope one day, the potatoes the next. But they had a starving population —an absentee aristocracy ; and what would the stern supporters of the Establishment say, when the Right Hon. Gentleman added, an alien church, in addition to the weakest of execwives in the world? Any one reading of a country in that position, ob served the Right Hon. Gentleman, would say at once that the remedy was revolution. But Ireland, he said, could not have a revolution, and why ? Because it was connected with another and a more powerful country—her connexien with England prevented revolution; and as revolution was the only remedy, England was placed in the odious posi tion of being the cause of all that misery. What, then, he asked, was the duty of an English Minister? The Right Hon. Gentleman was then engaged in the duty of hunting down the man who was then a great English Minister— (Opposition cheers) --and was talking of Parliamentary middle-men, who bamboozled one party and plundered the other, and called upon the House to put an end to Parlia mentary hypocrisy. Now, if the House still maintained the inclination to put an end to a Parliamentary hypocrisy, they would permit him (Hr. Keogh) to put au end to the repre sentation that the Hon. and Gallant Member had misrepre sented the Right Hon. Gentleman. But he would proceed— " What was the duty -of an English Minister? To effect by his policy all those changes.which revolution would effect by force)—(Hear, hear.) The debate was then adjourned till Wednesday, the 19th of May. The Property and Income-tax Bill was further considered in Committee, and ordered to be read a third time on Friday. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the H o use adjourned at Half-past - Twelve o'clock. COURT CIRCULAR. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by Lord Charles Fitzroy, visited her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge, yesterday after noon, at her residence in St. James's Palace. His Royal Highness Prince Albert, -attended by the Marquis of Abercorn , Viscount Mandeville, Colonel Francis Francis Seymour, and Lieutenant -Colonel the Hon. Alexander Gordon, left Buckingham Pa lace at . ten minutes before one o'clock, yesterday West afternston, for the purpose of layingthe foundation stone Royal Highness returned to i3uckingliam Palace at omfinthseteareTwrabiufinind'ing Ignsstitinatfotio°fritahestrNeetationoafiSteiety. His twlenhteyirmiEnnoterds be ß fo i r; b r ase o s 'clo e ck rin . ce Arthur, and the P r i nces ses Helena and Lou isa, took a drive y esterd ay morning, in an open carria g e and four. Their Ro yal Hignessesstbe Prince of Wales , t he Princess Royal, and the other members of the Royal family took their usual A. exerc i se yesterday, in the garden of thick . inga t i te Palace. . - • • His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horse back yesterday, attended by Lient.-Colonel Hon. A Gordon. ' , . . Her Majesty and his• Royal Highness Prince w ith the Prince of Wales and Prince A Albert, Alfred, attended by Viscountess Jocelyn, the Honourable Mary Lord Pelwarth, Lord Charles Fitzroy, Lieut.-ColonelSeymour, fi n , A . Gordon, honoured the and with their presence last evening R oyal. Italian - Opera tier Royal Highness the Due . h • by Lady Anna Maria Dawson L a d y of Kent, attended and Sir George Coupe?, honoured h e r Majesty's Fanny Howard, with her presence last evening. Majesty's Theatre A deputation, headed by M.P., Mr. Edward Ellice , Sir William Gibson ce M p -on Crai g, had an interview with th ' e Ch. ~ and Mr. Cowan, M.P yesterday, at his o ffi cial - ancellor of the Exchequer Lord Lyttleton had residence in Downing -street, - Derby an interview with street. yesterday , at his official residence in TN the Earl of .uowning , The Camb r id ge University Commission meet ing yesterday at th„incial r e sidence of the Treasury in Downing-street. of the First Lord of Chester, the Dean of E P rofessor Present—the Bishop the Rev, (Se cretary), Sedgwick, and W. H. Bateson Lieutenant-Colonel Mundayeretary). Sir John Pakington yesterda y had an interview with A deputation, headed Cardwell, M.P , had by Mr. D.liles, M.P. and Mr. the Exchequer 'an interview with the Chancellor of Downing-street. yesterday, at his official residence in DESTRUCTION OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE.--Ir. C°ll ' Fequen ce of many thousands of persons in the United f dome a t having been unable to obtain a copy o_ the by. r atr. Exhibition Chart, printed in colours, and presented proprietors . of the lircchly Diypatch to their subscribers and the . public, in the months of January and February Sunday/ , re-issue has been determined upon, to take place en next, May 16th. The Chart, which has undergone f a careful erseris revision, shows by simple diturrams the number o that visited the Exhibition daily,' the amount of at the various entrances, the quantity. of the origin of the Palace, con sumed; the names of the Royal iof refreshments an account Its (Infa order . that every individual in the count r y , .. n _ I may possess this s m ilni on e e2 P t , st.lellr ti g rmiLts, to mark statistical reflex of curious and interesting as a memento the . demolition of the building., and ''' and C''in!'ll'esusions in feet. In I of its existence, the Chart will subscriber and purchaser of the four Dispatch on every Saturday b e pp . c d a e delivered r e e n d tghrea daytis t e stated.e e ry The Dispatch is publishq. at . jrders should be given to morning, in time for the Orst l and for the morning mails. Iraarillywav trains leaving London, n o t sr willto M h r. av ß e . a J J. Co of No. 139, Fleet-street. . atch of May 16th. the Chart with every Dap all newsvenders in townmoer newsno'untaryge; r!" 'TO THE SECRETARY OF T E I REFORM ASSOCIATION. As c si or of the Mondey (CONTINUED ON MONDAYS AND WEDN the 10th,- the chanzesptilD:soßM Exchequer produced his plan for rate public curiosity b th a e u, S a e a a n t a s s fe u r d f b e u it;; ; b a y ou th b disfranchiseme n t j e eet, had beep considerably raised. It is impossibi6 to de n y , that his clan was as fair, open, honest, undisgtesiad, irre proachable a proposal to add four Members to the Con servative side of the House, as if it had been suggested to give four new Members to the county:of ,auckingham. ___The proposal-was, to -divide your-West -Riding into two, taking the North Midland Railway for the line of demarcation, giving two new Members to the North- Eastern or agricultural division, and leaving you of the South-Western es yon are. Credit was taken for not allowing Leeds to corrupt the azricuitural division, state ment being made that it was proposed to make a hump in the divisional line for the purvso of keeping Leeds on ±he other silo, Farther, n division of the same roqure was to be perpetrated on the South 4vision of Lancashire, with the frilrible effect of Orit'i; tte capital of tho new division tit I:yeti:too!, whore Conierralive prweip:es are considered to be strong. The / - '!tit thrown out, in thit to the' Liberals,—who as children of light, are Mt expt•ctcd to he Owe.) a a match for the chil leen of this ‘vorl3,—was "You cannot uh jec'!; to nn arrangement that gives more Members to this sumo popkil , ition;" the Chti,t 4 . , :s Ckti.e ever again, Ana it W 35 naluciipg to sae, low L .- 19 ny appsared, dtsnoted (0 - 4ise.et The 11 , _inhctr for th , J - ,r;;iv'Ersity of Ox:orc'. (Mr. Glad step,) replied to :he Chancellor of eite Exchequer. lie overturns t the p. - cUminari , a of the ofliciat speaker, who had laid don's with considerable pomp of hi'ieusge, that- though Thera: WA?, nothing magical or cabalistic in the precise number fit 653 Members of tly, House of Commons, there was an imperious noe(-ssity that4tiis fast be had argued, with all the po wers a t his com mand, number should be p hecisel y p reserve d. In that before the Government could go to the pro mised appeal to the people, it was necessary that the House should be filled up to the mysterious number with fuur Conservative Members. After this reply, tho House went to a division by common consent on the motion of Mr. Gladstone to pass to the other Orders of the Day; which was carried against the Chancellor of Exchequer by 234 votes to 148. Anofunthsueciciectuel, a to tte d en im ot in w i a sh s m th a e de i o mp nt o h r vote by representi ng i t as what was cal l e d " MI founded on the division dirision;" the argu ment , being e t a Ministerial ne o f this side taking place earlier than w as expecte d , an d oonseq uently a number of Memb ers h av i ng gone to dine. But t hi s manifestly depend e d on the assumption, that only Tories go to dine. A n y man with the slightest knowledge on such subjects must know, that unless it can be proved that Liberals do not dine, the number of di ners on ea ch side must have approached to the proportion of the final numbers; and consequently if fifty Members went to dine, it is as certain as that a man firing into a flock of sparrows would kill a nearly equal number of cocks and hens if the numbers were equal to begin with, that thirty out of the fifty would be Liberals, and therefore, if no body had gone to dine, the majority a ga i nst the Minis ters would have been ten more than it it was. When a party to any contest makes an effort whieh so palpa bly fails, it is within the limits of the most temp erate and justifiable opposition to hold it up to public con sideration as a striking evidence of weakness, a n d carry to the utmost the advantages derivable from the fact. _ _ . • • - - Here then is the Tory Ministry in a minority of eight times (which but for dining out would have been nine times) as many as induced their predecessors to throw up the Government. It is to be feared the superiority alluded to rs in possession of the children of this world, will prevent its having anything like similar conse quences now. .• An interesting question for our side, is to know what could have induced the Tory Ministry to put themselves into this minority. Supposing that we had been called to hold their cards, it is clear our aim must have been, to propose the maximum of advantage we wire sure of carrying, but first and above all things to propose nothing we should fail in, Why did the Con servative Ministry fall into this huge mistake? Or can it, as some suggested, have been intended, and is there anything behind? The probability appears to be, that there is not, and that it is simply the result of what was noted to you in a preeTding letter, under the phrase of the squadron-officer thin; ridden over by hie men be hind. Their squadron, it appears then, is a mob, not under thn direction of the cstensible leader, and conse quently in only a slight degreeiunder any direction at all. All of which, let you and me, who ride in the opposite ranks, treasure up for use as opportunity may arise. The Militia Bill was then proceeded with in Com mittee. After stout resistance, Clauses 7 and 8 were carried by majorities of 169 to 82, and 216 to 99. Clause S is for fixing the Quota of counties by Order in Council. The basis of this fixing appears to be unne cessarily circuitous. Where can be the necessity for in stituting a cumbersome preliminary inquiry into the num ber of serviceable men in the respective counties, when the object might ho obtained with quite sufficient accu racy by dividing according to the population? Suppose, for instance, it is decided that 80,000 men are to be levied in England, with a population of sixteen millions. Was it necessary to do more than direct each county to furnish one militiaman for every two hundred of po pulation ? But there is a further question, of eonsidera;le im port wiee. Seeing it is declared to be desirable to raise the men by voluntary enlistment, why may not as many men be so raised as will enlist without distinction of eountie , , and the enuetiea in the last resort be charged with raising the d.ficionuy by ballot by the rule men tioned above? Oa what principle is it to be said, if Lincolnshiremen are eager to enlist and Yorkehiremen are not, that the men shell not be taken by voluntary enlistment in Lincolnshire, but shall be taken by forced conscription in Yorkshiro? If 3ou and I were allowed to settle this matter, 1 think we could contrive to mend it. I will note, that the propos:l of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for making the North Midlan.Ll Rail vny the lieu of demarcation between the intended divi sions, is not carried to the clearness which would pre balily have been shown if the plan had been of longer life. The North Midland Railway, to my appre hension, stops at Normanton. But from the mention made of Leeds as near tho boundary, there seems no doubt that the boundary intended in that part of the line was what you call the Leeds and Bradford Rail a ay, and that if the agriculturists were to be " shoulder,' you were to have been " ribs. When you see the por trait of the unsuspecting animal that is divided into joints for the instruction of inexperienced carvers, it may make you think of the escape you have had in the West Riding. On Tuesday the Maynooth question, after a long debate, was adjourned till the 19th. I are, Sir, yours very sincerely, AN OLD ilEe s eßm Eß. Blackheath, Nay 12,1852. , T wAr OF LTBOOTIRIDEEE.PIABT By Joseph FOR A SYkr ... .-- ..., ..... rA 7 ,-, '-' TBE TA.A . ivi-‘ o p k ub h / a is s he b r een compiled expressly for the This benefit of those connected with the tanning trade, ~ f or which," says Mr. Sawyer, 11 there is as yet no sufficiently defined system of book-keeping, although it ranks third or fourth among the manufactures of Sawyer, bo Great Britain." To give some idea of the extent to which the leather trede is carried on in this country, Sir F. M. Eden, in his work on insurance, estimated the value of the different articles manufactured of leather, in 1803, at 12,000,000/. The work is divided into two parts. In Part I. will be found instruc tions for the preliminary arrangement of books sod..v. detailed i n f ormation for those who are not practically acquainted with b ook-keeping, followed by d g t the g eneral er " til rules for balancing, 64. c. Part 11. is devoted consideration o f the difficulties of keeping clear and concise accounts in the tanning trade,anci the most the principle which the author considershvihole has been convenient and advantageous. very carefully arranged, and . Sawyer has fulfilled the The e nsider that Mr. desire which be expresses BY simplicity of arrange explaining in his preface, viz., " the e xclusion of all ex ment and illustration, and by . traneous matter and uselessbe tann i ng trade, a set of books relating prin ciple of which must be . _o ee ,_,..,, the tc'btvious even to persons un acquainted with book IE Pus___ technicalities, to produce F AT HERLESS CHILDREN.— Ye N ste E r W day AthseYeigchMth anniversaryof this asylum, at Stam ford-hill, was celebrated at the London Tavern by a festival, at which Mr. Peto , M.P., presided. About eighty friends and supporters of the institution dined together. It is *dis tinctive feature of this charity that it imposes no restrieNts with respect to the ages of those whom it is intended to be " New Asylum" was formed nefit, but renders aid to the destitute orphan as early and as in consequence of differences as regards religioaa teaching.which had arisen in the original orphan asylum , lionnigsas4l,he may need help. The founded in 1827. The Chairman stated that the Prince of Wales was a contributor of 250 guineas. The Hon. Chair man advocated the claims of the charity very au%egsfullY , Chair and stated that there were now upwards of onaanundred orphans in the asylum, and that the high character of those connected with its management was a guarantee for their excellent training and the care bestowed upon them. It was in contemplation to erect a new building more com mensurate with the claims on the benevolence of the funds of the charity, and there was already a fund amounting to 2,400/. towards this desirable object. After the dinner the children belonging to the asylum, whe presented a healthy and prepossessing appearance, walked in procession round the roo m, and after singing a hymn retired. The health of the s il l an ild d , chairman was proposed by Air. Alderman Wire, who referted to the liberality which has characterised his career, both as a public man and in private life. This toast was very CU'• dially received, after which a list of subscriptions amounting to 9621. was read by the lion secretary, the Hey. Mr. . . tav sling, including a donation cf 250 guiueas from the chairm one of a hundred guineas from Baron Lionel treasurer of the institution. Rab a [AnysnTISEMENT.] 11.0110Way'g Pills, an Man cured by them of a Complaint in his s -' aged Short ness of Breath.—l desire to bear testimonytomacit and of Holloway's Pills. For many year‘ to the good effects tightness in the stomach, accornpa ' ' I NV as atilic/ei with a that prevented me from walking- rued by shortness of breath, yet though so far advanced in about. I am 64 years old, good an effect that I now take years these Pills have had so and I feel quite relieved ofth. exereise without inconvenience, Henry Coe, North street, stomach complaint. (Signed) proprietors of the L,. Lynn. Messrs. Threw End Son, naent.—Sold by all -Dn. Advertiser, will confirm this state- Establishment, Druggists , anal at Profoosor Holloway's 244, Straatt, Londoa. Dr. Llaclure f Souls and St. ~\arylebonc I 1 onnerly head master of the All District School, in union wi th King's College,Regius London ' has been appointed by the Crows deen. Professo r of Humanity in Diarisehal :College, Lbw-