The Sun. — London, England, 1812-03-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF PEERS, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 4. The Loan CHANCELLOR (being detained at Carl ton House) did not take Ins seat on the Woolsack until nearly 5 o'clock, and immediately after pray ers, their Lordships proceeded to forward the Bills on the Table. The Sugar Bounty Drawback Bill was read a third time and passed. The Nottingham Watch and Ward 'Bill was read .a s econd time, and committed for to=morrow ; and for whi c h occasion their Lordships were or d ere d to • e s ummoned. N . Tile 'Earl of LAUDERDALE observed, that a "'file Friend of his was ex' retnely anxious to den ier his senti ments respe&ing the Bill, on one of its ; his own acqui i escence in the proceeding just ', r uered was, upon the understanding that Noble !_riend wou:d he able to attend to-morrow. — 1 )0tild that not be the case, he would move to post lone that stage until another dry. T he further consideration of the Scots Appeal l a use, (the Ea r l o f El g i n v . M'Clean) which stood or , this day, was , upon t h e mo tion of the Lord Chan tetlor, fixed for to-morrow. The Iri.dl County Infirmaries Bill, the Glasgov. l each, and a few Private Bolls, were brought .up „:, 1 ' the Commons by S r James Graham, and ier Members, and severally read a first time. 11 The Leen CHANCELLOR called the attention of e House io the lung pending case of the Rox burgh Peerage, res p e cti ng which he kit their Lotd i"i's Would be desirous to-name art eat ly day for its oal consideration.' He would, therefore, propose, that en Monday their Lordships should apply t hem zeives t o 1 4, subject, which (when di.posed ot) /y "elci conclude their proceedings on that of the case,4 Rdving moved to this effect, it was ordered "ecerdi r o y. The Eat I of LtuDattnALE a Iverted to the wish of 2° . n 'e Noble Fri e nds, who, with himself, were de '4 „, r , f lts of enteri n g their protests against the measure 1 "ich had recently been repeatedly sanclioned by th e Rouse ; but he Seemed to think, that agreeably t ° a stria construdion of the Orders of the House, i " regular pe r i o d h a d g one by. He therefOre gave "ice, that on to-morrow he would move for the bl ew of the relevant Standing Order, w it j ew tons occasional susprision, in order to eilable “ern to enter their protests regularly upon the Jour l'al..„,"f the House. in 'he Noble Earl also dotificd his intention of — i nv jog for the produdion of certain documeets I `, a . f ist of which he read), calculated to throw addi l'n.inal light on the effects of the Orders in Council, ' n u of the system ot granting Licenses. After transacting some judicial business, their oldships adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. WDNESDAY, MARCH 4. Tlje Several Expiring Laws Bills were read a e ttitt time, and ordered to be committed to -.arrow. Reports of the. Holt and Woolmer Forest b e 8 Were brOutrlit up, and the Bills were ordered to r e - committed. The Committee on the Indemnity Bill was post poned to Monday. Mr.JoutisoN, from lbe Office of Chief Secre tary for Irela s nd, presented an Account of the ex- Venditure of Ott. Coinmissioners oilßogs in Ireland. Ordered to be printed. The Irish Spirit Warehousing Bill was read a third time, and passed. COALS FOR THE, POOR OF DUBLIN Mr. W. POLE rose, - putsuant to his notice, to five for leave to bring in a Bill to enable the Lord - Lieutena n t to r , gulate the price of Coals in Dot)lin, Plrchased for the lase of the Poor. By an a6t passed" in the Ist year of his present Majesty's reign, cer tain officers were emp,werecl to purchase Coals, for !bleb they were not to give more than ids. per t on, which they were to sell again to the poor at not more than is. per ton profit. 01 late years' t lad been found impossible to purchase the coals at the Prscribed price, and the low had in fait been transgr e s se d. The accounts of the officers had L'nwever been passed, becouse it was obvious that had purchased the coals at the lowest possible t r ice, although not so low as the price wescribed Y the alt of Parliament. It was not proper - that the Law should 1e thus violated, lie therefore 3eved, for leave to bring in a Bill to enable the 'Ord Ventenant to regulate the purchase of coals Ipr t the oor, by enbling the office-s to buy it at t h e lowest market a price, to be ascertained by pub . le advertisement. •Leave was given to bring in the IRISH BLUE COAT HOSPITAL. Mr. W. POLE presented a Petition from the Trus tees of the Blue Coat Hospital in Dublin; and atov ed that it be laid on the Table. The SPEAKER inquired . whether it was one of fl.e. usual annual petirtops from the Irish Charities "? 'Mr. W.. Pocz replied in the negative. _ The SPEAKER said, that a 4 it contained new mat ter it - must be .referred to the consideration of a C ommittee to examine the fa6s, • Referred to a Committee accordingly. FLOGGING OF SOLDIERS. Sic F. BURDETT gave notice, that in the Com mittee on the 'Mutiny Bill, he would propose a elanse to prevent the flogging of soldiers. A Message from the Lords announced their Lord- Ships' assent to the Sugar Bounty Bill. PETITIONS To THE REGENT. Mr. \VWTBREAD, in consequence of the extra ordinary fads which had come out in the cliicusilon last night, thought it his duty to inquire the cause of the difficulty of obtaining access by petition to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent ? The Right Hon. the .Secretary•of State for the Home Depart ment was not in his place, but probably his Right tlon. Friend would be enabled to inform hint. i.vbe-_ tiler the Secretary of State had represented to the Regent that there were petitions ready to be present ed to him, and in that case why his Royal Highness 'bad not been advised to receive them ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that in the absence of his Right Hon. Friend all he vrmicl state wss, that be believed the ordinary course of presenting petitions was on levee days, and that as yet no levee had been appointed. lie had Ito doubt, houreven that had ,any special.applicatian been made on the stNett, there would have been no difficulty in advising his Roal Highness the Prince Regent to receive the petitions alluded to. It was rather singular, that the Honourable Gen,le man should ask him what somebody else had done, with whose department he (Mr. P;) was not con- neeted. Mr. WHITBREAD remarked, .that the Right Hon. Gentleman was pleased to be facetious• ; but it was the duty of the Secretary of Siate, as -a IVlembei . of Parliament, to attend in his place ; any• in his ab sence, it was the right of any other Member of Parliament to ask for information, from those .who it was probable could afford it on any subjeti upon which the public interest .demanded explanation. _ 7He repeated that he wished to know, whether the Secretary of State for the Home Department had communicated to the Regent the fact •that there were petitions is the hands of different Noblemen • • and Gentlemen, which they were desirous of pre -stinting to the Regent ? for had such a communi cation l 'been made, he could not conceive it possible that the Regent world not have been advised to it, - ceive those petitions. •It was rather a tearful. cir- , cumstance, and one which by no means ought to be treated in the light way 'n which the Right Hon., Gentleman seemed disposed to treat it, after the subject had been so long exchided from the consii= tutional approach to the throtie, that, at the corn tnencement of a new zera, the avenues to that Atone:should yet remain blrred. - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that he had any disposition to be facetious on the sub jed 3 nor was he at all aware that he had been so. All that he had - said was, that it was really extraor dinary to inquire of trim what course of proceeding had been adopted by another. Officer of the State. — As far as he was aware of that course, he had com-; municated it to the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman was Correct in saying,that it was the duty , .• of his Right Hon. Frieod, as a Member of Parlia ment, to be present in his place in the House, hut he conceived that on such a day, when no public business of importance was expected, and when the inquiries of the Hon. Gentlemen could not by pos sibility be anticipated ; the absence of his Right Hon. Friend could not be imputed to him as a very serious offence. Mr. WHITBREAD said, that the Right Hon: Gen tleman would perhaps communicate the conversa tion-to his Right Hon. Friend, and that to - morrow he would be able to afford addiqonal infoimation on the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that to-morrow, his Right Hon. Friend would be present to answer for hituse;f. LORD HIGH STEWARD. Mr. W. WYNNE stated, that some days ago, the Lord Steward of his Majesty's Household had sur rendered his keys to his Royal 'Highness the Prince 11.,-gent, but than no new appointment !-3 . d . since taken place. Ha gave notice that be would to-mor row call the attention of the House to the inconve niencies which resulted from allowing this office to remain unoccupied. . . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER believed . that to-mot row the office would be filled up. _ Some conversation ensued between. Mr. W. Wynne and the Chancellor .of the Exchequer, re spedmg the nature of theineimiernencies of which tt:e former comp aired, which terminated in Mr. Wynne's repeating his ,determination to submit the subject to the cotisidel4tioa of the,House to-mor row.- . LORD CHAMBERLAIN AND SERrEANT AT A Mi Mr. WHITBREAD said, that in consequence of another office s that of Lord Chamberlain, not hav• jug been filled up, the House or Commons had teen,. during the whole of the 6ession,. deprived 'of the ser vices of a Serjeant•ar Arm.. He s,vi,hed fur some satislaCtory explanation on that head. • The CHANCELLOR 01 the EXCHEQUER replied, that the Hun. (.;:?otleman - was Misinformed; for that a Serjeant at Arms had actually been - fOr - . some time appointed. • • • Nit . . WHITBREAD asserted, that this' was no an swer to his observation ; which WaS, thaethe House of Commons had not the benefit of the services of a Srljeant at Arms, and he lint the anthori , y of the Chair, and df arecent Art . of Parliament, for believ ing, that there was a necessity for a Serjeant, as well as a Deputy Setk•ant at Arms. The conversation proceeded for a few minutes 'across the table, but in so low a tone of voice that we VL ere unable to coiled its tendency. Mr. MARTIN postpo* i ed from to-morrow, to Thutsday Ilex), his motion - respeding the Office of Registrar of the Hish Court of Adroirdlty.--Ad ioutued. - On Monday last the Gentlemen of the Clarence Hunt held their annual Meeting at the R e d Li on Hampton, which was graced by the presence of his Royal Highness the Duke, of CeAtt4scv, the Patron of the Hunt. Mr. BitooGnAm, by what he said on Tuesday in the House of Commons, seems to el - nest:lin opini ons respediog the wishos of BuotqArAierß very different from those of Mr. Wntrnith - Arl; for the latter recently eN; ressed his hopes tin! the Usurper might have what he desired, viz..' Ships, Ct4lo [lies, Commerce ;" but Mr. fittousniAm said, that BUONAPAIITE only expressed such a desire " in some moments, while sobering under the vexation of severe naval lo•ses ;" aL the Opposition Member added, that " po sooner had his mind resumed its tone, than he turned t') his favourite policy of sa crificing his own trade to the ruin of ours." We leave these Gentlemen to justify their own opini , tos respecting the siews of the French Ruler, but the' difference spews that there is no concert in the patty, and that while there is a general ambition among them to get into pl ice and power, they are severally governed by their own notions and feel ings, and have no systematic plan for the national. welfare. Mr. BIiOUGH AM, bowel er, is wrong as to the time when BUONAPAIITE uttered the otembra.:. ble words in question, for they were not tile eifed of temporary vexation under naval losses, but deli vered in the intoxication of triumph atter a recent victory over the Austrians, whose defelted Ge9e rals were passieg - before hint : indeed, at the very moment the British Navy had achieved a glo rious victory ; but this event was unknown to' Boo ,I'ARTI3 when he expressed the sentiments_ in question. CONCLUS/641 THE C#A Ct 4,L0 Rof the EXCHEQUER'sSPEECII ON MR. BROUGHAM'S ICIOTION. . . : Re obserted, that his Honourable Friend (Mr. Wilberforce) had admitted not only that the Or ders in Connell were stridly justifiable, but that they had produced a beneficial effea. The com mercial• embarrassments which were now • experi enced induced him to think there was -something wrong in the system, whiCh required alteration ; and therefore he supported this snot an for inquiry.. It did not appear•to him to be a very corred mode of reasoning to attribute the recent diminu,loe of trade to those Orders in Council, when it was an incon testible fed that for taro or three yeas they had pro duced e directly opposite riled ; and when . the &- crease which had taken place had been so clearly traced tmother causes. But it had been argued, that even if the Orders in Council had not produced ef feds detrimental to our trade, they .had tended to encourage foreign stamen. The first and obvious observation that occurred on this objedion Was, it was wholly irreconcilable with :those which had been urged from the sane quarter. It. would. hardly be contended that the Orders in Council could pro duce two efftds diam , ,trically - opposite to each other; they could not at- the same time destroy our • trade, and yet give such great encouragement to fo reign seamen in cartying.it on. That foreign ship ping and foreign seamen• had, from the peculiar and unprecedented circumstances of the times, been em ployed to-a greater extent than could be wished, was not denied; but. that effed was not produced by the Orders in Council which had been issued by the present Government. The system of which it was the result wa. , • in force when they came into power ; and those Gentlemen, who expressAl such alarm at the consequences of employing foreign sear men, ought surely to have proclaimed their appre hensions when that system was first introduced in the Administration of Lord Grenville. - He was far .from contending that, if any measure which he had adopted was impolitic, be ought to be excused, be cause it was introduced by another administration ; he had merely mentioned the circumstance, to shew Gentlemen who were so ready so throw every spe : - ' cies of blame upon the preisent Ministers, how ne cessary it_was to ascertaitifads before they preferred charges. The assertion, however, that the are& of the Orders in Council had diminished the quantity of British shipping (against whatever administration it was directed) was not founded in feet. Between the years 806 and t 810, the number of British ships and of British seamen employed in our trade had increased : it was true that the number of fo reign ships and of foreign seamen had increased in a greater proportion ; but that was owing to other causes wholly unconnected with the Orders in Coancit. The extra rdinary state of the Continent bad rendered it impossible to carry on so large a pornott of our trade in British bottoms as we had been accustomed to do ; when therefore our com merce increased we had only the alternative of giv ing it up, or carrying it on by means of foreign ships. This was the plain state of the case, and it placed- the consistency of . the Gentlemen on the other side in a very striking point of vi.eA. They described in strong colours the distresses of our ma nufacturers arising from the reduction of our trade, e .. nd the=y y proposed i• reiedy the evil by reducing I t ltetaer. The trdde of this country could not, 't -was °hi-loos in the present state of things, be carried on with the greater part of tbe Continent by British ships and seats - ten ;we were therefore compelled, if we meant to carry it on at all, to employ foreign vessels: The language of the Gentlemen oppetsite to him.to the •manntaaurers, if they poke taitly, must be to this effea : " We. feel deeply for your distresses, which we know arise from a diminution 'of ;rifde ; - Vve,afe extremely anxious to relieve you; ?pet in order to accomplish that objea, we have pro posed an inquiry, - in order to see if we cannot de stroy the greater part of the trade that you carry on with the Continent of Europe." Whether the ma emfaelurera would be grateful to the Honourable Gentlemen for their interference, or would apprpve of their remedy, he would leave the House to de termine. He now came to another part of this sub jea on which the Gentlemen on the other side had employed much of their eloquence—he meant the licenses. Here again he begged to observe, that the system of licenses,svhether wise or unwise, originated with the administration of which those Honourable Gentlemen were such enthusiastic - admirers. e Nay, the very clause in the - licenses which the Hen. and Learned Gentleman who brought forward this mo tion bad reprobated with peculiar severity, and had represented as being at once michievous and ab surd, was drawn up by that very administration, and was found by the. present Ministers ready cut and dry in the office. This identical clause, upon which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had bestowed such opprobrious epithets, was drawn up at a meet ing of the Board of Trade, by Lord Grenville, Lord Auckland, Lord henry Petty, and Lord ferople. He was ready to adfeit, that if the measure was a bad one, it was no excuse for him that it, had the saoetiou of such Flames; tut he mentioned the cir cumstance in the hopes of inducing Gentlemen on the other side not to be so lavish of their censures before they were quite-sure to whom - they applied. With regard to the perjury which was said to take place, he had every reason to believe that it was mach less under the present system than it was before, and fur a most obvious reason, that the number. of oaths to be taken were gteatly reduced. He should not now stop to argue whether carrying on trade by means of licenses was not liable to some objections, for the real question to be determined was this---It you cennot carry on your trade with certain countries, except by means of licenses, are the objections to that Mode of proceeding so for midable-that you would give up your. trade rather than have recourse to it? It Gentlemen really thought that it would be better to - give up trade al- . together, than to carry it on by means of licenses, they would, he prestmted, at in the Committee upon that system, and diminish our commerce in order to increase our manufaanres: Having stated the circa which the Orders in Council had had upon Our trade, he begged leave shortly to state how it had operated upon the enemy. The duty arising from Customs in France, amounted, in 1803, to 33,000,000 !tyres; in 1804, 41,400,000 ; in 1805, •;), ;700,000 ; in 1806, 51,7t)0,000; . in 1807, at the latter end of which )ear our Orders in Coun cil were adopted, the du'y amounted to 60,483,000 Lyres, and the very next year they tell as low as I;vees, rn Isng, t 1 16y fell still lower,_ they only amounted to 11,500;000 livres. The Hotse would,bear in ins recollection, that while the amount of the French Customs v► as thus reduced immediately after the acA.)ptiou of the Ordeis in Council, our rev-not had experienced an astonish ing.-increase. He w.s aware that the Costotus di:d-,not. form so important a branch of the revenue in Franca as they do in this country; but it was impossible that they could have experienced such an extraordinary decrtase, without producing, a very considerable erred ap n the rest.of the: r ✓entre, He knew ihat sorneGetuleme;; on :he other side were fond of supposing that Buoliaparte entertained an opinion, half philoaophicalF and half wad, that trade was produciivc of liberty, and therefore he hated it. The tad was, he hated British- trade, and would. willingly sacrifice his own to de , stroy ours ; but it he could carry on a com merce without benefiting us, he would most willingly do it. This was most obvious from the paws he took to consttud canals and roads for carrying on internal trade, and from the uniform language of those a ,- .nual expositions which were published 're.peting the .state of France. He was bound, however, in fairness u state, that the duty of castoms in France rose, in 18 iO, to 49,000,000 'lyres, but thatwas not owing to any increase ot trade, but in a great degree to the confiscation ot British property in Prussia and other placei ; the incorpo ration of Leghorn and Genoa with France must of course have hid some etreciin increasing the reve. nue. Besides, the duties had been in many in- stances increased five : and-twenty foid, and even more therefore„ if the- trade bad remained the same as it was before the Orders in Council were issued, the revenue ought to have amounted to 725,000,000. BA al►hough Gentlemen in ►hat /louse denieJ that the French were affected by the Orckrs in Council, u►e French themselves cotlfe,s rd the fact ; they acknowledged -that they no longer bad any trade, except what- was carried on by means of canals, and admitted without liesitkit;on the difficulties under -which they laboured. He begged to ask those Gentlemen, who were so hos tile, to the Oiders in Council, what would be the effea of repealing them ? The t.treet would be, that America would be able to supply Frince with all Colonial produce, and the Americans would in turn take away !ver rnauufamnres; in fad, Francs-- would be L. a inure fa%ourable situation than she, _ . would be in a lime of peace, and the trade of Great Britain to the Continent world be annihilated. - He would not trust himself with the discussion of that part of the question which related to America, but when the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite to him said that the Berlin and Milan Decrees bad been repealed, and that a Proclamation had been issued to that effect, his memory must surely have tailed. The Government of this country had_ repeatedly called for that proclamation, America calleJ for it, but it had never appeared.--as There was, indeed, the facnow letter of the • French Minister tor Foreign Affairs, in which he said that the French Decrees should be repealed on condition either teat our Orders in Council 'vere rescinded, or that AftlefiCa would no longer suffer her shirrs to be denation:iitzed ; that is, it she would not surfer her ships to be searched. But es-en it the Decrees were repealed with regard to Amcrca, they would be in force with regaro to Great Britain. It was therefore not a partial but a total repeal of these Decrees that Great Britain had a right to demand before she gave Op her Orders in Council. The French Decrees were not, as Gentlemen had stated, internal, municipal measures, they-- were, adopted in time of war as measures of hostility, and even if a neutral chose to submit to them, it by no means followed that a belligerent was also bound to acqoiesce. But.it was not only to France that these Decrees extended, but to all; her vassal States, to every • country over Which she could extend her power. lie wished to know whether' there wtiss any quarrel between Hamburgh and France when Hamburgh and the other Hanse Towns were seiz ed by the French. Holland, Tuscany, and Rome were seized uron no other ground than because it was comenient Buonaparte to seize them, and the Berlin and Milan Decrees immediately applied to them. Could it - be concluded, that upon any prin . ,ciple of the Law of Nations, we were bound to suffer France to give laws to all these neutral na tions.without our:making an effort to indece them. to ass,!rt their neutral rights ? He would not trespass any loner 'upon the time of the House ; it had •ben incontestibly shown that the disstresses of our manufacturers did not wise from the Orders in Council, alit' therefore he should oppose going into the Committee, from which no possible beneficial consequences could result. 'Wednesday, about '2 3 0 men, draughts from the 2d battalions of the 26th and 79th regiments lying in Glasgow, marchs..d to join their first battalions , ;.11 Portugal. The following detachments have embarked from the Depot, Isle of Wight, for Madras : Per Astell.—Pour Subalterns, tst Battalion 78th Foot ; t Captain, , Subalterns, and t:6 men, Salt Foot ; and is men, 25th DritgOoilS. Per Prince Regent.—Two Subalterns, ist Battalion 3:th root; 2 Subalterns, and zoo men, tst Battalion 3oth Foot) 3 Sttbaltems, tst Battalion, 6gtlt Foot ; and 3 S uldtt:; Battalion, ritlt Foot. The 37th regiment, SOO strong, are expeard at Portsmouth, to embark in the cour.e of this week. The suth, 71st, and g2J . , regiments, General Hew Ann's brigade, are, to be wirenched befure Bat Wit's, A battalion of Royal Marines, consisting of 680 men, including a detachment of Royal Marine Ar tillery, commanded by Major WILLI:VMS, have re turned from Lisbon, under convoy of the Prune.— they have done duty in Portugal for more than a year, chiefly in the Castle of Lisbon. Siturday 260 deserters, principally Germans, Were landed at Portsmouth, from Lisbon, an I matched to the Foreign Depot, at .Fort Cumberland, there to remain until ready to join their regiments, they, having entered into our service. - - The 46th 'regiment of Foot, stationed at Kings bridge barracks, in Devonshire, has received orders to embark for the bland of Jersey. The 2(.1 battalion, 39th Foot, arrived at Ports-, mouth, in the Romulus, Lord BALGONIE, from Us boo, and.are to re-embark for Weymouth. Colonel CHICHESTER, of, the Cardigan Regiment Militia, commands the garrison of Limerick, for the. present.