The Sun. — London, England, 1837-02-08 00:00:00

Words with great emphasis, and sat down amidst the most enthusiastic cheering. ] Mr. R. JACKSON rose amidst some confusion and loud cries of " Order," from the Opposition benches. He said—l rise, Sir, not by any means to oppose tho motion of the Noble Lord, or to enter into any lengthened discussion of the measure which he has introduced.—(Hear, hear.) But I feel • it my duty, as one of the persons who have been alluded by the Noble Lord, to justify the point which I, though a humble individual, have taken, In common with my Protestant fellow-countrymen, on the occasion to which the Noble Lord refers.—( Hear.) But before I proceed to that part of the subject which consists in a justification of the proceedings of that great ting, I think it a duty to call the attention of the House to one or two of the other topics which the Noble Lord has intioduced into his speech. I think the Noble Lord has taken very esew ground on this occasion. I think that in all l evious discussions of this question, it has • never occurred to any Member of either House of Parliament to discuss this question upon the ground which the Noble ord has taken.—( Hear, hear, hear.) I mean his argu ent that the rejection of the 'Municipal Bill was an ineaction of the Act of Union, and a departure from th e spirit in which the Emancipation Act was passed. Really, Sir, I deny that there is any wain of solid ar gun ent in either of these statements. ( Hear, hear.) Did the Noble Lord mean to say that the principle of the Union was that there should be no dif. fe:ence between the government of the two countries or its laws ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) If he had read the et of Union, he would have seen, by the Bth section of tl at Act, that the laws of Ireland, as they existed before 11. e Union, should continue. Look at the White Boy Act. Was there any necessity for anything like that existing • in England ?—( Hear, hear.) What was the spirit of the Act of Emancipation ? Could the Noble Lord put his finger on any part of that Act which rendered it obli gatory to give to Ireland Municipal Reform.—(Cheers and cries of " Hear, hear.") Perhaps the Noble Lord argued that the spirit of the Emancipation Bill, and not the letter rendered it necessary. In his ( Mr. Jackson's) opinion, the spirit and the letter of the Act was in direct opposition to it. The Noble Lord spoke of Lord Mulgrave's desire to do im partial justice, and he referred to three gentlemen who filled the office of Attorney-General in that country. He (Ser geant Jackson) did not deny their respectability, but there were others equally as respectable in their profession. Lord J. RUSSELL did not mean to say that those gen tlemen were not as respectable as any others of the profession --he adduced the fact to show t unanimity in the Govern- Merit in Ireland was essential to the interests of the country. Serjeant JACKSON did not misapprehend the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord could not venture to say that Mr. Blackburn° or Mr. Edward Pennefather would for a moment hold' office under Lord Mulgrave's Government, disgraced and degraded as it was.—( Hear.) Let the House examine these innovations. The first was Made by. Mr. O'Loghlen, when he was Attorney- General for Ireland. The Noble Lord panegyrised the innovations ; but he would tell the Noble Lord that they had produced conse quences the most disastrous. Reference had been made to the -" putting by," as it was called, of jurors on the part of the Crown without assigning any cause. lie held it to be a ca lumny on the respectable individuals who from time to time bad'filled the important office of Attorney-General in Ireland, and who were connected with the criminal jurisprudence of that country, to say that in the performance of their duties they had been actuated by a difference in religious persuasions to put by men from serving as jurors. He denied that men were put by from serving as jurors merely because they were Roman Catholics. Neither did he believe it bad been ever the practice at any period to put by men offering themselves as jurors because of their political opinions.—( Cries of " Oh, oh I") He did not believe it.—( Opposition cheers, and re newed cries of " Oh 1" from the Ministerial benches.) But lie Would mention a case to the Noble Lord in connection with this subject, and let the people of England hear it, and say if things had not arrived at a dreadful state in Ireland. A Protes tant in the Queen's County, whose name was Carter, and who was a tenant of Lord Maryborough, proceeded to fence in a por tioti of land for which he paid rent, and to which he was en titled. In doing so he was set upon by some lawless persons in the neighbourhood, and he and his sons were beaten. One Was beaten to such a degree that he lost his senses, and to this hour, he believed, was an inmate of a lunatic asylum. The experiment of fencing in this land was repeated, and the same party opposed it. They again beat the old man, and they beat him to death. The case was brought on in the shape of an indictment for murder ; a murder committed, he believed, at noon-day. On the trial a man engaged in as sist:ng the parties in the outrage, was on the jury. What was the result? No verdict was given. Another assize came round, and the trial was brought on again. Who was empan telled cn th e j ur y on th a t occasion ? There was to be no put.. ing by of jurors, and who was sworn on that jury ? A convict —(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—a man who had been tried and convicted, and who underwent the sentence of the law for an outrage of the same description. Did they expect a ver dict now? The foreman came out and told the judge that it vas in vain to expect an agreement, though there was a ma 'ority of Roman Catholics on the jury favourable to a convic lon. The judge took the jury to the bounds of the county; they passed in triumph through the towns, the people hur rahing; and, having arrived at the boundary, the judge dis charged them, telling them that there was no safety for life er property.—(Opposition cheers.) The case came down a third time to trial, and the offenders obtained another triumph. At length the mere were let out of gaol, some on bail, some he believed without bail. Thus justice was com pletely baffled. His Majesty's subjects lost their lives, and the laws were not vindicated. One of the men who had been charged went, after these proceedings, and again levelled the fences which Carter's family had raised. Similar cases had occurred in the north-east and in the north-west of Ire land, and if the Noble Lord would indulge them with a Com mittee, he pledged himself, on behalf of himself and friends, that h e wou ld no t shrink as he bad termed it, from proving the facts.—(Opposition cheers.) If the Noble Lord imagined that all the outrages occurred between the Roman Catholics and Protestants he was mistaken ; he would find that Roman Catholics fought with Roman Catholics.—(Hear, from Lord J. Russell). What then was meant by charging his party with laving acted on the atrocious policy of divide et isnpera ? Now, the Noble Lord, in making his calculation as to the amount and quantity of crime committed in Ireland, forgot a most material item—he forgot the business to be dis charged by the local prosecutions by the Attorney-General. Now, he could tell the Noble Lord (perhaps the Noble Lord was not aware of it) that one of the most fearful chapters in the several calendars in Ireland was that very chapter that included those feuds and fights at fairs. Those Were now disposed of at the Quarter Sessions, instead of beieg brought to the Assizes. This, then, would account for a considerable falling off in the calendars.—( Hear.) Let not, he would say, the Noble Lord suppose that such won derful changes had been brought about by the wonder working Lord Mulgrave.—( Hear, and cheers from the Op position Member.) They all knew perfectly well that a very influential body of men were then at work in Ireland—they all knew perfectly well the influence exercised by the Catho lic hierarchy and the Catholic priesthood—(hear, hear) — they all knew, too, of the influence possessed by certain lay men, who said a great deal, and had prodigious influence over the population—( Hear, hear)—they all knew that for certain purposes, it was easy to produce a temporary calm.—(Hear, Lear, hear, and cheers from the Opposition Members.) Oh 1 it was a beautiful argument —it was unanswerable quite—to 35 3', look to the calendars I See, just see, the effects of Lord Mulgrave's administration in Ireland I See what a diminu tion of crime I Don't, oh pray don't disturb such an Admi nistration as that.—( Hear, hear, hear, and cheers.) But he asked the House this question, wou!d not the same influ ence that could curb and check also at the proper season set them loose ?—( Hear, and cheers. )- Had they not seen in stances of this ? Had they not even recently been told, if certain changes had not taken place, that Ireland would be made the scene for revolution and a bloody rebellion ( Hear, and loud cheers from Opposition Members.) But then the Noble Lord rejoiced exeeedingly at the puttin g an end to the Orange S o ciety.—( Hear, from Ministerial Members.) That, too, was another blessing that Lord Mulgrave had con ferred upon Ireland. Now he was astonished, with the facts that were within the knowledge of the Noble Lord, that he should have touched upon such a topic that night —that lie should have even glanced at it ; for if there were one topic more than another that could be made the subject of com plaint, it was the conduct of his Majesty's Government to the Protestant population in Ireland, and particularly to that part of it which had belonged to the Orange Society. He complained of the conduct of his Majesty's Govern ment in reference to that body.—(Cries of " Bear, hear," from Opposition Members.) The Noble Lord told them that the conduct of the leaders of the Orange body, at the time of its dissolution, covered them with honour. No one could differ from that opinion. Their leaders had acted in a manner that was most beneficial and useful, and at once honourable to themselves, in sanctioning the dissolution of the Orange body. The complaint against the Orange institution was, not that it was an illegal body ; it was objected to as an imperium in int perio, and it was dissolved. The least then that the Orange men could have expected was even - handed justice.—(Hear.) The diss o l ut i on of that body took place—it did so on the mere intimation of its being the wish of their Sovere i g n that they onght to do so . By the simple expression of a desire, at the s e nk nfe wish of the Sovereign, the Orangemen ag r e ed to a dissolution of thei r b o d y ; a nd immediately up spi ung, under th e e y e s of his Majesty's Government in Ireland, another body, the nee-' Roman Catholic Association.—( Hear, and loud cheers from the Opposition Members.) It was not, it was Said, a new Roman: Catholic Association. He knew that there were Protestants, or those who called themselves Pro testants, in it. He knew there were, and more shame for them.—( Hear, and cheers frosn the Oppositiou Members.) But still he said that the new body was virtually a Roman Catholic Association—it was a resuscitation of the old body.—( Cries of " No, no," from some of the Irish Members.) Why, had they not the chair of the old Catholic Association brought in by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) ever the way ; and brought in too by him in triumph ? Had they not in the new body all'the books, papers, and records of the Catholic Association ?_(No, no, from Mr. O'Connell.) Why, he ( Sergeant Jackson) c ould ' p roduce a resolution to effect that these documents should be transferred to the new b ody. Did the Honourable and Learned Gentleman deny that the Chair had been brought in in triumph by him self ?—( Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Co nnell.) Did the H o n . *ad Lear ne d Gentlemanl deny that the Chair was in the room ?—( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL—Not in the least. kr. S ergeant JACKSON sa i d, t h ere ehat looking at t h e Mr . men who took an active part in the proe e eeines—those w h o were the f oremost i n the ranks of that body—the designs they professed and the acts they did, the new body virtually, though slot in name, was an absolute revival of the Roman Catholic Association. The body since then had taken a variety o names. It was a volunteer society at one time, a registrationf society at another; it assumed various names at different pe riods, but still they , would find the same men constituting the self-same body. They were all the same, and now he hoped they would give him leave to state a little of the operations of that Ronan Catholic Association. Could it be denied that such a body was at least inconvenient—that it was injurious— that it was as much calculated to disturb the peace and good order of society as the. Orange Association had been ?—( Cries of " No, no," from Irish Members on the Ministerial benches.) It was probable that those who exclaimed against the one could not perceive the other to be a grievance. People could see very well what bore against themselves—they could accu rately see whatever they thought was injurious to their own interests, although they did not so clearly see that what they themselves did was injurious to others.—(Hear.) What, then, was this new Catholic Association ? He did not hesitate to say (and he knew it to be the opinion of several eminent lawyers), that if there were an illegal Society, it came, in his opinion, within the Act of 1793, an Act that had been passed to put down the old Catholic Association, at the time of the first relaxation of the penal code. The Act of 1793 was only in affirmance of the common law. Such was the opinion en tertained of it by eminent lawyers, and that by its means all such Societies could be suppressed. Such he believed was the opinion pronounced by Mr. Wolfe, afterwards Lord Kilwar den, by Mr. Chamberlain, and by that eminent lawyer, Sir Matthew Smith, the Master of the Roils. Their opinions certainly were, that all such Societies could be put down under the Act then passed. But if it were not an illegal Society, and supposing it did not come under the Convention Act, or the common law, was it not the duty of his Majesty's Go vernment to bring in au Act that would put down such a nuisance as that body was ?—( Hear, and cheers from the Opposition Members.) Were not its objects illegal ? And if they were to judge by its acts from day to day, he said it was a standing permanent conspiracy against the existing law of the land and the rights of his Maje..ty's subjects, and particularly of the clergy in Ireland.--( Hear, hear, and continued cheering from the Opposition Members.) That Association met from day to day ; they canvassed every trails - action in Church and State ; they prescribed the measures to be adopted; they overhauled the Exe'cutive Government, and they said who should and who should not be appointed ; they arraigned the Lord Chancellor; they brought him to their bar ..—(Laughter) ; they condemned Lord Plunket for not being sufficiently accommodating—for not cashiering one magistrate and not appointing another at their dictation.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) But they did more—there were loans made by them, and contributions wrung from his Majesty's subjects, and which actually amounted to taxation. Oh but then it was all voluntary !—( Cheers from the Opposition Members.) It was all upon the voluntary principle. They who were acquainted with Ireland knew how perfectly voluntary it was I But what was the destination of those subscriptions ? What the objects professed by that Association ? First of all, they were told that " they must have municipal corporations fur Ireland ;" that is, such as they prescribed ; secondly, " there was not to be a mere appropriation clause in a Church Bill" there was not to be a mere lopping off of redundancies, a mere dispensing with all such things as were not necessary for the purposes of the Church and the uses of religion —no; but "there must be a total abolition of tithes."—( Hear, and cheers.) This was declared by the Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) when he launched his new Association on the 4th of July, that being the time at which the body commenced its existence. This was said by the Learned Gentleman, who was the father, he might almost say grandfather, of that Association, as he proposed some of his grandchildren as mem bers.—(Laughter.) That Learned Gentleman told them in plain terms that " he never would be content while there was the slightest inequality between the members of both Churches in Ireland."--( Hear, hear, and cheers.) " Ought Ireland," he asked, " be tranquil while tithes were paid ?—( Hear, hear.) It ought not to be tranquil, and I promise you it never will while I live, and while ever a Protestant clergyman has a right to receive anything from those who differ from him in persua sion. As long as thiicontinues Ireland never will be tranquil, and I never will cease to agitate."—( Hear.) What more did the Hon. and Learned Gentleman say.? " We must have an organic change in the House of Lords."—( Hear, hear.) We must have Parliaments shortened ; nay, more, we must have vote by ballot."—( Hear, hear.) But then the Noble Lord told that House, " Oh ! pass this Corporation Bill, and ste what peace and tranquillity there will be in Ireland."— ( Hear, and cheers from the Opposition Members.) It was curious to observe the manner in which the Noble Lord had that night replied to a question put to him a sew evenings be fore. The Noble Lord did not like altogether to differ from a Noble Lord (Viscount Melbourne) in another place, and he did not like altogether to agree with him.—(Laughter.) It would not be quite convenient to do the latter, or that ender ful support which the Minissry had in the House of Com mons—that wonderful majority in that House to which it seemed they were all to submit—might be in danger, if the Noble Lord had expressed an entire concurrence with the opi nion of Lord Melbourne.—( Hear, and cheers from the Op position.) Therefore it was that they heard from the Noble Lord the curious answer given to a question some time since put to him. He asked, were they not told, when tho Ca tholic Emancipation Bill passed in 1829, that there was then to be an end to agitation—( Hear, hear)—that they were to have nothing but peace and tranquillity—( Hear, hear)—and were they not informed that the Roman Catholic bishops were for ever to retire frona politics.--( Hear.) It was even said of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell), of him who was the prime mover in the arena of agitation, that he was to withdraw from the toils and troubles of politics, and fall back upon his profession, to become for the remainder of his life a laborious special pleader, or a hard-working equity draftsman.—( Cheers and laughter from the Opposition Mem bers.) How had the promises then made been now fulfilled ? —Why, every Roman Catholic bishop in Ireland was a mem ber of that Association— ( Cheers)—and then they had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself agitating to a degree unparalleled, he (Mr. Sergeant Jackson) believed, even in his lifer —( Hear.) He had stated the objects which the Roman Catholic Association insisted on, What, then, were the means they took to get rid of tithes ? A portion of the funds of the Association were given to enable persons to carry on litigation in the most unparalleled and vexatious manner, and this to defeat the just claims of the clergy.—( Hear.) He said, therefore, that, looking at the Association, and judging of it by its acts, it did appear to him perfectly illegal ; and he thought no lawyer could otherwise decide, when it was mani fest it promoted and fostered a conspiracy to deprive another of his just rights. If there were no other test by which to judge of that Association, this alone was sufficient to prove that it was illegal ; it was a standing, permanent conspiracy against the law of the land and the rights of the subject.—( Hear, hear, and cheers from the Opposition Members.) Then what had they done more in that Association. There was an organization throughout the country. The lion. and Learned Member pro posed the appointment of " pacificators."—( Hear and laughter. ) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had them under the old system ; under the old regime they were designated church wardens, and they had certain functions to perform for the Catholic Association. Those persons were not church. wardens, such as they in that house might understand them to be, persons who had any thing to do with churches or chapels ; no, but they were to attend to the divers secular objects for which the prime mover appointed them. Now, however, instead of churchwardens, they were, forsooth, desig nated " pacificators." Now, let him remark if there were that profound peace in Ireland—if there be so much of that boasted tranquillity, what use was there for " pacificators ?"_( Hear, and cheers from the Opposition Members.) Now what was the use of these pacificators? They were told it was to bring forward every man who could do so to register.—( Hear, from Mr. O'Connell.) Another thing they had to do was to pro duce rent for the Association.—( Hear, and cheers from the O pposition. ) And he could now tell some of the fruits of their ex ertions at registration. He had a letter in that House (and there was also a Member of Parliament to speak to the facts) as to what was the manner of effecting the registration of voters by these pacificators. He appealed to the Hon. Member for Cavan, who could tell them what was the condition of his county. There were now armed pat ties going through the country, visiting houses; and examining the leases, to see whe ther those who held them could register—these persons fired shots, and threatened destruction to those who did not go for ward and register.—( Hear.) He had other letters describing the same facts, but he felt he should be treipassing to an un warrantable length upon the House if he were then to read those documents. But this he told to the Noble Lord that if he would only favour him with a Committee of Inquiry, he should undertake, in conjunction with his Hon. and Noble Friends who took part in the meeting referred to, to p - rove every one of the allegations then put forward. —( Cheers from the Oppo sition.) But then the Noble Lord, forsooth, taunted them by saying, that here they had let a whole week pass over, and and they had not yet dared to bring forward one of the charges they had made elsewhere. Why, they were not in I so great a burry as the Noble Lord was in bringing forward his Corporation Bill.—( Cheers from the Opposition Mem bers.) He could tell the Noble Lord it was not because they were afraid—it was not because they were shrinking—it was not because they had the slightest doubt of the accuracy of the charges they had made.—( Hear.) He could tell the Noble Lord, that there would be laid on the table of that House a petition as respectably and as numerously signed as any petition that had ever been presented to them. There would, too, be laid on the table of the other House a petition as numerously and as respectably signed as any petition ever yet presented to that House ; and both these petitions would be found to complain distinctly of his Majesty's Government in Ireland, and they would also be prepared to prove every allegation that they made.—( Hear, hear.) W ith respect to the Catholic Associ ation, he considered that upon that subject the Noble Lord had come to a very " lame and impotent conclusion." It was not in a negative way that his Majesty's Ministers were to be chargeable as encouraging it. He charged them in the most positive manner, he asserted distinctly, in giving to that Asso ciation their approbation and support.—( Cheers from the Op position members.) This appeared by the transferring of an lion. and Learned Gentleman to the table of the Viceroy.— ( Loud cheers.) It appeared to be a matter of course.— ( Cheers from the Ministerial side of the House.) At the same time the Hon. Geetlemen opposite need not cheer—he would undertake to say, that if any Noble Lord or Hon. Gen tleman in office at a former period had invited from an Orange lodge persons to dine, a general outcry would have been raised against them.—( Hear.) Ile would now conic to a much more grave matter. He asked the Noble Lord opposite ( Lord Morpeth) whether in his department there had not been made an appointment to office in Ireland from amongst the members of the Catholic Association ?—( Loud cheers from the Tories. )Was it true what he had heard within a very few days, that an Hon. Gentleman, a friend of his ( Mr. Ser geant Jackson's) whom he knew well, and he was certainly not disposed to speak in any manlier derogatory to him : he was a Roman Catholic barrister of the greatest respectability, and of a character perfectly unexceptionable: he was also a mem leer of the Roman Catholic Association—but was it, he would ask, right of the Government to appoint him -to an -official situation ? The individual to whom he alluded was Mr. Pigott, who had been apy stinted to succeed Mr. Maziere Brady as law adviser to the Secretary for Ireland.—( Loud cheers.) Lord MORPETH—I will give the Hon. and Learned Ser geant's question an immediate answer. I do not know whether the appointment has yet actually taken place; but it is cer tainly intended.--( Loud cheers from the Ministerial side of the House. ) Mr. Sergeant JACK SON would not hesitate to say— (Cries of " Order I" and some interruption)—he would not hesitate to say, that though he respected the individual in his private character, though he was a gentleman of high station in his p.ofes:sion, he would say, with the very greatest respect towards that individual, that it was utterly unbecoming—he was going to say indecent—but it was an improper, a most im proper, proceeding on the part of his Majesty's Government in Ireland to appoint a member of the Roman Catholic Asso ciation to an office of this sort.—( Loud cheers from the Oppo sition benches.) It was one of the most important offices con nected with the administration of the law, and with the peace of the country. It was the department through which the entire correspondence with the magistracy of Ireland passed. If a collision took place in the assertion of a tithe claim—if a call were made for the intervention of the constabulary—if a call were made for the military, he was the person to be consulted as to the propriety of the interference of either the police or the military.—( Cheers.) Yes, they must con sult this very individual, and he would ask the Noble Lord (Morpeth), particularly when he recollected that there should be a perfect coincidence of opinion between Lord Mulgrave and Lord Morpeth, and the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General, and, lastly, the law adviser of the Crown---( Loud cheers)—there should be a perfect coin cidence of opinion—( Renewed cheers)--did the Noble Lord (Morpeth) think that Lord Mulgrave was of opinion that it was right and proper to obstruct the King's subjects, even though they were Protestant Clergymen, in the recovery of their rights ? ( Loud cheers.) Did the Noble Lord think that Lord Mulgrave was of opinion that it was right and proper to establish a fund for the purpose of rendering litigation vexatious and intolerable to those wno maintained their legal claims ? Did the Noble Lord himself concur in this opinion ? He (Mr. Jackson) thought he had a right to say that these were the opinions of the Learned Gentleman who would be found to be the law adviser of the Government in all these cases. That gentleman had subscribed to the fund that went to the relief of Reilly, who was imprisoned for resisting the claims of the Clergy. Did the Noble Lord think that the Protestants of Ireland were fools, or that they could imagine that they would have justice administered ? Did he think they would imagine'ser expect justice when the very partisan who had combined to resist. the legal claims of the Church was de facto the most responsible Minister of the Crown ?—(Loud cheers.) Let not the Noble Lord suppose that he (Mr. Jackson) was a candidate for the office.—(A laugh.) The world and its contents would not bribe him to take part .in the administration of the affairs of Ireland under the present Government.—(Loud cheers and laughter.) He assured the house he had not the least desire that way. But there was a first Sergeant—he ( Mr. Jackson) was only the second— there was the first Sergeant, a gentleman who had never been embroiled in politics, who was of tire utmost eminence— he meant Mr. Richard Wilson Greene. There was not a better lawyer or a man of more unexceptionable character— he had kept aloof front politics and had never been in Parlia ment. This man was passed over. There was then the third Sergeant, on whom that law appointment had been be stowed by Government—he meant Mr. Sergeant Ball.— ( Hear. )—He was naturally the person who might expect promotion, and if Mr. Gre etc were passed over, Mr. Ba:I, who was appointed Sergeant by the present Government, was naturally the person who should be cal cd to fill the office of Solicitor-General. Than Mr. 13,,11 no man was more ( min nt in his profession ; ha was of the first rank, and of most unexceptionable charaCter.—( Loud cheers. )--He (Mr. J..ckson) had never heard an allegation against him. He was likewise a Roman Catholic, so that there could be no objec tion to him on that ground.—(Cheers.)—He would say so. lemnly and sincerely, " God forbid that a Roman Catholic who was fit for the office, and who was .of a respectable charac ter, should not be appointed to office just as soon as a Pro testant."—( Cheers.)—But he would again ask what was the ordinary course of promotion ? Ho referred the question to the Solicitor-General ; but the fact here was that Mr. Ball was passed over, and Mr. Maziere Brady ' a gentleman, he would undertake to say, who had never addressed a jury as a leading counsel, was made Solicitor-General. And why was Mr. Brady passed over the heads of all the bar? It was to make this vacancy for this member of the Roman Catholic Association.—( Loud cheers from the Tories.) Was this all? Did the appointment stop here? He would again ask the Noble Lord (Morpeth) had he not caused the commission of the peace to be issued to members, and prominent members, of the association ?—(Cheers. ) They were told last Session what he supposed was now forgotten, that nothing of influence, no political views, should interfere with any appointment—that every thing should be perfectly impartial. The impartiality, he was sorry to say, was all on one side ; it was a sort of Irish impartiality.—( A laugh.) He would now ask the Noble Lord whether he thought that he (Mr. Jackson) would be able to support his bill of indictment against the Govern ment ?—(Loud cheers from the Tories.) He would un detrake to show, as distinctly as arty case was ever proved, tire abuse of the patronage and the prerogative of the Crown.—( Loud cheers from the same quarter.) Justice to Ireland I it was a mere outcry to swell the power of oae individual. Oh I that they could enforce justice to Ire lend I They called for the reformation of corporations. He wished they could reform one corporation that existed in Ire laud—he meant the Roman Catholic hierarchy.—( Hear.) It was not a municipal corporation, but it arts to all intents and purposes a perpetual succession independent and under self control, and it would never rest—they would find that it would never rest satisfied till they had pulled down the English Church in Ireland, building their own on its ruins, and abolish ing the Church altogether on that side of the Channel._ ( Hear, hear, and a laughs from the Ministerial benches. )—But he begged leave to ask, did the matter stop here ? Was it only the magistrates of the rural districts that were assailed ? He woted ask, had not a gentleman of the name of Tighe been appointed to the place of Assistant Barrister ? Would the Noble Lord do him the favour to answer this question ? Lord MORPET lI—No such place has been vacant since I left Ireland, and consequently no such appointment can have taken place. Mr. Sergeant JACK SON now begged leave to come to another and more important matter. The Noble Lord oppo site ( Lord John Russell) had called them a miserable mono polising minority—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches), and that a miserable monopolising minority made all these false charges against the Governmeat.—( Renewed cheers from the Ministerial benches.) They had charged his Majesty's Go vernment with an abuse of the privilege of mercy. Ho pledged himself to establish the charge.—( Load cheers from the Tories.) First of all, he would ask how were the Judges of the country treated? He had heard them in that House assailed in a most indecorous, he was going to say indecent, manner. —( Hear, hear.) He had heard them arraigned—men of the utmost eminence, and who were entitled to rank with the judges of any law or of any country—he had heard them ar raigned because they had done their duty, by giving effect to the process of the courts.—(Hear, hear, hear, and cheers.) They had been called political partisans, and these charges %era made by officers of the Crown ; and he had heard, and he had seen with astonishment, the Ministers of the Crown seated and hearing patiently, without one of them getting up to vindicate the Judges of the land, and to shield them from attack in their absence. Some of them even went so far as to join in the attack.—( Hear, bear.) One of them was the case of a riot of a very formidable description, in which Roman Catholics and Protestants were both engaged, the Roman Catholics being the aggressors.--(A cry from one of the Ministerial benches "Of course.") He did not say of course. Cheers.) He was stating the facts of the case, and he would prove the facts as he stated them. He had the highest authority for them, and he pledged himself to prove them.— ( Cheers.) The Roman Catholics were the aggressors ; an indictment was preferred, and a cross indictment, so that both parties were indicted ; they were indicted for riot, for an aggravated assault, and for a common assault. The case went to the Jury, and they convicted the Roman Catholics of riot and aggravated assault, and convicted the Protestants of a common assault, and that, too, of a very mitigated nature. The Judge, who was the Chief Baron, sentenced the Protestants to three months' imprisonment, and the Roman Catholics to six months' imprisonment. It had always lwen an established rule that in all cases the opinions of the Judges should be asked before the Executive exercised the prerogative of mercy. There was an established ferns, which would be found lithographed in the Chief Secretary's office. Was any inquiry made in this case of the Chief Baron ? or was he asked to report the nature of the evidence on which they were convicted, or the relative guilt of the parties ? No such thing. He thought that an English House of Conmsons would be astonished when he told them that the first intima tion that the Learned and eminent Judge had of the sentence being dispensed with was from the publication of a newspaper. —( Hear, hear.) He then saw a letter written by the lady of Lord Mulgrave to the wife of one of the party, stating that " she had conferred with Lord Mulgrave, and that he was of opinion that as the guilt was the same, so ought the punish ment to be ;" and his Lordship had therefore directed that when the Protestants were discharged the Roman Catholics should be discharged at the same tine.—( A cry of " Oh, oh I" from the Ministerial benches.) Did the Noble Lord opposite mean to c mtradict this statement ? Would any gentleman com petent to contradict it do so ? Would any member of the Go vernment say that this was not the fact ? If they did he would join issue, and tell them that he could prove the fact.— ( Cheers, and from Lord Morpeth—" It occurred last year.") Last year I What did the Noble Lord mean by saying it oc curred last year? Was it according to the Noble Lord's rub) of reasoning, that a thing wrong in itself became right be cause it was done last year ?—( A laugh.) lie had another instance, which came from another tribunal. It was a matter that took place at an election for Newry, where an elector was kidnapped, and prevented from exorcising the elective fran chise. lie was made drunk, and before he could recover his senses, he was conveyed ten miles out of town ; he was detained fur a week, being conveyed from one barn to another, having a sentry of five men over him by day and three by night. Hi , wife and family were distracted, they Linked for him every where ; an indictment was preferred against some of the kid napping party for assault and false imprisonment, the most satisfactory conviction took place, there was not even an at tempt to deny the facts, they were admitted by the party, and the Court of Quarter Sessions passed sentence of eight months imprisonment. What was done then ? Was the Learned Bar rister called upon to report the facts of the case ? lie never heard a word on the subject until he found that the prisoners had been discharged.—( Hear.) Lord Mulgrave, as was well known, set out on a tour—( A laugh)—what the object was he did not know—probably popularity. lie knocked open sill the prison-doors ; he went to a great number of the counties of THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1837. ell - eland, and discharged the pt isoners. according to the extent of the county or the number of the inhabitants.—( A laugh.) Amongst these some had been convicted of firing at the reve nue police; this was a trifling thing in Ireland—( A laugh)— in these particularly peaceful times, it was a mere trifle.--( A laugh.) There was amongst these, also, the case of a man of the name of Jones, who had been convicted of an assault with intent to commit a rape ; he, too, was discharged with the rest.---s( Cries of " Oh, oh I") He could assure the House that these persons were discharged without the formality of asking the Judges whether they were fit and proper objects of mercy.—( Hear, hear.) In the county of Donegal ten were discharged ; but this was done by the order of the Lord- Lieutenant, as conveyed in a letter from his private Secre tary. This letter was addressed to the governor of the gaol.—( A laugh.) Lord MOR P E T lI—I believe that this is not the case. Mr. Sergeant JACK SON could assure the Noble Lord that if he inquired into it he would find it was the case; he would find the letter signed " C. Yorke," and dated " 28th August, 1836," amongst the papers in his office, lie would ask the Noble Lord was this a proper way to administer the justice of the country ? Was this the way to ensure the con fidence of the country in the administration of the law ? Was it any thing outrageous for the Protestant and loyal portion of Ireland to meet and respectfully call the attention of his Ma jesty to proceedings which they considered a breach of the law, and endangering the safety and independence of his Ma jesty's subjects ? Such had the Protestants of Ireland done, and for so doirg they were met by a protest signed by certain absentee Peers, denouncing their proceedings. Whether this protest was signed by the parties whose names were attached to it was perhaps a matter of doubt.—( Hear, hear, and Oh, oh, f. om the Ministerial side.) The Hon. and Learned Member opposite was very much mistaken if he supposed that ho (.tie. Sergeant Jackson) would be deterred by any thing he could do or say, or any demeanor he might take upon him self to assume, either in this House or elsewhere, from ma king any statement which he might think proper. He could tell these Noble Lords that they had better look sharp after their acres in Ireland.—( Loud cries of " Hear" from the Op position.) He would tell the Duke of Devonshire and Earl Fitzwilliam to take care lest, before two years had gone over their heads, their estates might be proclaimed.—( Loud cheers from both sides of the House.) It was part of the language held by religious men, by priests, by learned men, at the new Association, that the estates of the Protestants had been purchased by blood, and the terms in which those Protestants themselves were libelled there were of the very lowest descrip tion. One Noble Lord, than whom no one was more highly or more justly respected, whom it was impossible to look on and not know him to be a nobleman, who had been present at the late meeting, was met in a strain of the loweit drivelry. He alluded to Lord Abercorn, and this was 'the language used with regard to him Sacrilege and perjury were the foundation of his Scottish estates, and his Irish ones, like almost all the rest, were the consequences of plunder, rob bery, and bloodshed."---(Loud cries of hear, hear, from the Ministerial side, amongst which an Honourable Member used an expression which we did not distinctly hear.) Perfectly true, the Honourable Gentleman says. Pray, has the Hon. Gentleman limed? any estates in y Ireland ?—( Hear)—and are they, like the rest, the consequence of plunder, robbery, and bloodshed ?—( Opposition cheers.) But was this the way a serious subject of this kind should be treated ? He repeated that the events now passing in Ireland should be a solemn warning to all the land-owners of Ireland to take heed to their titles. If things went on as they now did, two years would not be over their heads before they were called in question. Look to the history of the last few years. When the ques tion of the repeal of the Uuion was first started, the man who stood up to advocate it would have been called a madman. When the HOn. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Kil kenny started this project for agitation and filling pockets— (Loud Opposition cheers and laughter)—he did not succeed in getting a second man in Ireland to support him in it. Now the case was changed ; look at his goodly host of supporters in the National Association.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord told them that the only argument against extending the prin ciples of Municipal Reform to Ireland as they had been to England and Scotland, was that England was inhabited by Englishmen, Scotland by Scotchmen, tied Ireland by Irish men. He should like to know where the Noble Lord had heard that argument used.—( Hear.) He was aware that a great stress had been laid upon certain expressions attributed to a noble individual in another place, and distorted for the pur pose, in which something about " aliens" was said. It was a great pity, certainly, that they should be deprived of this va luable stock in trade—(a laugh)—which had boon the subject of so many brilliant harangues. " Torrents of blood should flow," said the Hon, and Learned Gentleman, " toatone for ' this insult. He would rather see the rivers of his country stream with blood than that this stain should not be wiped out." Now, who was the lion. and Learned Gentleman who spoke thus, and what had be said about Englishmen ? What language bad he used towards the liberal and enlightened gen try of England ? He had called' them " Sassanachs," which being interpreted into the vulgar tongue, meant Englishmen, Saxons, onstraneers. He had called them " foreigners, ene s trees." He would, if it was not trespassing too much upon their patience, edify the House with a few specimens from a letter, one of a series, the whole of which were worth attentive perusal, dated from Derrynane Abbey. It began with a beau tiful piece of poetry. (The Hon. and Learned Gentleman hero hastily read a few lines.) It then went on to say that the Union had done nothing for Ireland ; and then the lion. and Learned Gentleman addressed himself solemnly to the Pro testants of Ireland. Mr. O'CONNELL inquired the date of the letter. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON—The date was, " Derrynane Abbey, September, 27, 1830."—(Ministerial cheers.) The lion. and Learned Gentleman in passages of his letter pro ceeded to address the Irish youths in such a strain as the fol lowing :—" Survivors of. the unionists, base men who sold themselves and their country to the dominion of foreigners." Now, what did this amount to—what did all these repeated ex pressions mean, so distinct from the very term " alien," attri buted in a mistaken sense to a Noble Lord in another place, who, upon being made acquainted with the misconception to which it had given rise, hastened to apologise for it, and to assure the people of Ireland that he did not intend it in the sense attributed to him. In. the face of this apology, re gardless of explanation, still clinging to the distorted and erro neous view in which the expression had at first been received, a motion was framed at the National Association by diction. and Learned Gentleman opposite to denounce the Noble Lord in question. —( Mr. O'Connell—" No, no, Mr. Boyce, of Bannon. ") Oh it was not moved by the lion. and Learned Gentleman himself; he was glad to get a scapegoat, was be ? and that a Protestant member of the Association. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, however, prompted him doubtless in what he was to do—( Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—but he did a little more also ; he moved the setting aside of a standing order, for the purpose of bringing it forward at a time when it would not otherwise have been done.—( Hear, hear.) This motion denounced the Noble Lord he referred to as " an enemy to the peace of Ireland, to the stability of the empire, and to the throne of England." Language more atrocious than this, he maintained, had never been heard in that House.—(Opposi tion cheers.) It was a disgrace to Irishmen to have taken part in such a proceeding. Rivers of blood were to flow for the insult alleged to have been cast on Irishmen, and yet an atrocity like this was applauded by all the Irishmen who heard it.--( Hear, hear.) After again denouncing the conduct of the Hon. and Learned Member for Kilkenny, and the pro ceedings of the National Association of Dublin, the lion. and Learned Sergeant sat down amidst loud and protracted cheer ing; from the Opposition benches. Mr. O'CONNELL, after the cheering bad subsided, said, Sir, I concur in the pleasure these cheers manifest to be en tertained by the Hon. Gentlemen, at the other side, at the speech we have just heard from the Hon. and Learned Sergeant. I must say I never heard any speech with 'mere complete de light.—( Hear, hear.) , As to the personal attack on myself, that is perfectly benclath,my.dignity to notice.—( Oh, oh 1) It certainly does not, ellpy the, satisfaction with which I listened to the rest of the discourse,, thtt*e . not arrived at my present time of life without, learning to value the abuse of some whose praise would he censure indeed. All I ask the Hon. and Learned Sergeant is.never to 'praise me ; let him do with me what else he pleases.--(A laugh.)_ The satisfactian which I derive, from the speech OS the ilen, and, Learned Sergeant is founded upon tw9 grounds ;, firstly , that if he has any ma terial of political candour -about him, he has' taken up a course from which he cannot with any dignity retire; and se condly, that he has,,ayowedly displayed himself as the organ far the opposition of his Majesty's Ministers.--( Hear, hear.) There is no, disguise . now, they have made him their chant !pion ; they have bound their cause:.vvith his, and it is im possible that :the Right lion. Baronet , hirnielf can be more explicit ..upou course they e propeee to adopt than he has been. The coalition sitting on that bench is now undis gaised in its features, which announce that there is to be no peace for Ireland but in the extermination of its people.—( Oh, oh, and hear, hear.) What will Irishmen have to expect when he is one of the law officers of the Crown, for he de serves it quite as well as the lion. and Learned Gentleman sitting at his side, in some points ; as in assursnce and coolness of assertion he even exceeds him, and in his low jests he beats him hollow.—(Oh, oh, and laughter,) It was a great joke with him that I set him right in a matter of fact ; he asserting that I moved the resolution at the Association reflecting upon the conduct of Lord Lyndhurst ; whilst I, without meaning any offence to the party, told hint who really did do it; I sup porting the motion to be sure, which .1 do etot pretend to deny. But the Hon. and Learned Sergeant, who talks so bitterly about assailing persons by name, has himself done so in many instances its the course of his speech to-night.—( Hear, bear.) He speaks with contempt of 'Mr. Tighe; one of the most rising Gentlemen at the Irish bar, and this " person " forsooth is at tacked by the Learned Sergeant, who doubtless considered,' himself one of the aristocracy of the bar. The Learned Ser geant then went on to attack Mr. Pigott, one of the best and most rising men of the day, either in Ireland or any where else, whose legal knowledge is of the very highest order, and the ingredients of whose mirth arc so mixed up with the milk of h uman kindness that no one could take offence at it, unless indeed he were !possessed of that species of heart close to the leather lungs of the Hon. Sergeant.—( Laughter, and cries of " Chair, chair.") - The SPEAKER was understood to say, that although the [lon. Member doubtless felt that he had received somo pro vocation for what he was saying, he thought he would do well to express himself in more moderate words.--( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL-3 have been assailed ha the coarsest language.—(" No, no," and " Hear, hear.") However, I will not retaliate as far as relates to myself, but I certainly think I am entitled to speak about the contemptuous attack made on Mr. Pigott. Mr. Cassidy has also been alluded to by the Learned Sergeant, who makes a great point about his having been refused to be certified as kproper person for a magistrate by a certain Noble Lord. Now, j want to know whether Mr. Cassidy ever was a candidate against a son of the Noble Lord in question s putting hint to the expense of a contested election? If so, that is quite sufficient to account for the refusal of his eel.. tifiCate.---(Hear, hear, and oh, oh.) Why did not the Learned Sergeant make these charges in Dublin? There was a good reason for it. He durst not make them there, because they would have been contradicted as amply and distinctly as they merited. He had not made them in Dublin, but in that House, .knOwing that the persons who could contradict them were else where. These, however, were specimens of the manner in which the Learned Sergeant would administer law to others. Now lei me ask, if the Learned Sergeant was not satisfied with the pro scriptions already made in Ireland, that he must now come forward and proscribe ninety persons in the new Association ? He calls it a Catholic and seditious Association. I have no words, no sufficiently strong terms, to reject such an imputa tion ; and can only reply that the charge made by the Learned Sergeant is unfounded. —( Hear ) When the Irish Corpora tion Reform Bill was thrown out, it was stated that one ground for this step was an assertion of mine that the new Corpora tions would form normal schools for peaceful agitation. That was my statement, and it had been commented on in every pos sible manner, and urged again and again as a ground for re jecting the Bill. And what did I then predict ? I predicted that agitation-would increase, and I have redeemed my pledge to the letter—(Cheers and laughter)—and I am deter mined to persevere in the same course, because I know that the Association is constitutional, and because it has already been successful. The Learned Sergeant said the Association was a Catholic Association, and . proceeded to demonstrate this in the strangest way. In what way ? By exultingly proclaiming that the president's chair belonged to the Catho lic Association, and that it was proved by the brass plate on the back of it. I admit the fact : I admit that the chair belonged to the !Catholic Association ; and yet this is the way in which the Learned Sergeant occupies the time of a grave senate for two hours and a 'half, by exerting all his ingenuity to prove that the Association is Catholic, be cause the chair belonged to the Catholic Association. Why the Association is not a Catholic Association, unless Catholic is understood in the true sense of the word, and means a uni versal Association—and it is universal, it is composed of men from the north to the south, from east to west, men combined from a sense of wrong, and imbued with the . deepest feelings of indignation for the injustice inflicted on them, and taunted at the same time for entertaining such feelings by those men who have lost their power, and who thus show what their con duct would be if they again recovered their dominion. Did not the Learned Gentleman calumniate the Catholic clergy? Did we not hear him talk about reforming the corporation of the Catholic Church ? What has he to do with that hier archy ?—Why is he put forward to calumniate them ? —lf you support him I accuse you as accompliCes. Why, in the most outrageous periods of the agita tion for Catholic Emancipation, in the angriest times and most violent contests between the parties, Orangemen spared them. Dr. Doyle, to be sure, was pointed out; the remain der were spared as men unimpeachable in their moral con duet.—(A laugh.) I hear another laugh from one of the party. lam glad of it. It proves that now there is no con cealment ; the laugh is echoed, and it is a symptom of what they would do if they had to reform the Catholic Church. They have tried that already. Their ancestors had recourse to the gibbet and scaffold, and the axe, by imprisonment and tortures, but thegfailed in doing it. Why, therefore, is the Learned Sergeant put forward as the principal agent in pouring out violent abuse on their sacred and anointed heads? The Irish people will hear this, and they will also hear of the the cheers which followed hese announcements from the Other side._( Hear, hear.) —They will learn what abuse has been heaped on the Irish Clergy, and know how to estimate the intentions and policy of the party. There is now no dis guise. The Learned Sergeant has even gone so far as to charge the Catholic hierarchy with a wish to be connected With the State, and have the Church property transferred to them. The Catholic Bishops have decided the point. Twenty four of them met, and they declared by public advertisement that they would consent to no species of connection with the State. But the Learned Sergeant must not • attempt to get off by talking of a Committee. The party (said the Hon. and Learned Member) have made a charge against Lord Mul grave, a charge which had never been brought against Orange men, namely, that of excessive clemency. Yes will it be believed, that it is imputed to the Lord-Lieutenant as a crime, that he has opened the prison doors? That is a proof of the way in which Lord Mulgrave is now assailed. Did the party —he would not call them Protestants, for many Protestants were his dear friends, but call them by their old name—did they ever interfere with Orangemen, and set at 'liberty the wretches in gaol ? But did the Learned Gentleman impute any motive to Lord Mulgrave? Why, he believed if inquiry were meld° it would be found that the greater number set at liberty were Protestants and Orangemen.— ( Hear, hear.) But the Learned Sergeant had assailed a lady, and imputed to her ashore of the blame. Now, had the Learned Gentleman attacked him—bad he coupled his name with thet'of Lord Mulgrave, be should not have complained ; on the contrary, he should be proud to be associated with one whom he called the saviour of his country. 110 was the first Lord-Lieutenant who hid introduced impartial justice into Ireland, and on that account lie called him the saviour of his country. Something of the same kind had been said by the Learned Gentleman last eight, and on that occasion he had taken the opportunity to make some facetious remarks. This case might be different from that ; but if it were the same, it only proved the bad taste of the Learned Gentleman in in troducing the name of a lady on the same charge. The 'Learned Gentleman proposes a Committee of Inquiry, but he knows it would be just as competent to propose a Committee of Inquiry for a common assault. If the charge were true, then Lord Mulgrave was guilty. The Learned Gentlemen said he could prove three charges. If so, why not put himself in a train to prove them, and try the proof, but he durst not try. The Learned Sergeant knew this too well; he had mentioned charges Only in round sentences, but he did not dare to bring them for ward. He talked of the National Association being consti tuted for a variety of purposes. He would therefore tell him, as he seemed not to know, what were the purposes of the As sociation. It had two objects ; to obtain a proper tithe Bill, and municipal reform like that granted to England and Scot land. These were the two points ; for these it was instituted, and it was expretsly declared that when these were obtained the Association was to be immediately dissolved. It was said that its object also was to reform the House of Lords and obtain universal suffrage. Now though he believed these ne cessary for the salvation of the country, the Association had nothing to do with them. The party talked of improving Ireland, and obtaining their lost rights; but those who really aimed at these just and legitimate objects might judge what they meant by improvement and rights from their late con duct. A charge had been brought against the Associaticn with regard to writs of rebellion issued by the Court of Ex chequer. Now of whom was there the greatest reason to com plain? The lay Association . had filed many bills, and when an swers were put in it was found that there was nothing to recover. The National 'Association had nothing to do with that. But something had been said about Mr. Tighe, and a charge had been made against the Association because a man of the name of Corboy, imprisoned in consequence of a rebellion writ, was actually fat, and comfortable, and well—and assisted by coun- - sel and kept by the Association. Was that thought a crime ? Did they never hear of James Dwyer, who was dying in gaol, who was mortally ill, and who the physician Or the Association 'said would certainly die, unless he were set at liberty?' Under such circumstances, application was made to the plaintiff's counsel, and the prisoner was set at liberty. Oh, the Learned Gentleman was sorry that Corboy had fared so well, but he should have followed up that case with the case of John Riley.. Let them only think of a man seized under a commission of rebellion, and so afflicted with disease that he was discharged by the horror of the Court, after having been confined, for 10s. 6d., or 3s. 6d. a year. But what did the charge amount to ?—That we were guilty of feeding and clothing a man who perished in goal, and was carried to his lodging a corpie. These were the men who charged the Association with feeding Corboy in prison. But the Learned Sergeant had b.ought a charge against Mr. O'Loghlen, who was no longer there to defend himself, but was now in a situation to which his talents and his virtue had deservedly raised him. A charge had been made against Mr. O'Loghlee, and the Learned Sergeant said he could prove it. He could not prove it. The case referred to was the trial of a person for assisting a prisoner to escape ; but who was the Attorney-General then? Not O'Loghlen, but Blackburne— ( Hear)—whom the Learned Gentleman had eulogised so much. What would Englishmen think of a man, being put on his trial a second and a third time; and this eras the second time that the Learned' Sergeant asserted that he bad been proved by evidence to be guilty. The individual was still out on 'bail. Had Englishmen ever heard of any thing like this in England ?—( Hear.) That was the way in which justice was administered in Ireland. PL man•was pronounced to be clearly guilty, though he had been acquitted by three Juries. Good God ! what would. become of the administration of justice if such persons were to get power into their hands? These were to be the Judges in Ireland in case of the change of Alminisrration--men who declared a prie sener guilty though acquitted three times. The very judg e said, if such a prisoner escaped, neither lice or prh;perty would bgsafe. Why, such a judge deserved to be igep ea elogie The Learned Gentleman denied that, the asp cca erityns. of religion or politics had been mixet) . an suc h He protested against such an ssee . os io .a Learned Gentleman to come fur don, r and he called or. the the question could be ' to brought esa . rd with a motion on which issue, and he would second it. He could prove what hr_ :had seen himself in the country fifty times. He had hea:.d Olt : Crown Solicitor ;apologising for the course which • tfe puri . .ied, and stating, -on being re monstrated with, inat the his hands. He would OM R , himsel f pr. Jsecution bad been taken out of to prove that such a ease occurred in Limerick, when, as we understood, ' Mr. w Baddington, we, selleitor fit the Crown. But another charge was, that the ehal• lenge by the Crown had been taken away by, •O'L ghlen former tira6s ride Crown was allowed to ch .lien g , er to any e . etent, an, ien the number r jurors the Sheri !; to gas exhae,, sted the enl aege the g':aver sages of the day a ll owe dpanel. It had been stated t' Sat gm e , o'lg,glien had sent down an order to the assize, coo. ' t s to the effect that n o p erson saw be set as id e b y t h e C roy , MO'Loghlen gave no such directions. Th e di re et-4r she eave were, that no man should be set aside on aceuunt of hie religion. That system had been adopted is Qp @eri a t County and Carlow. In fact he wiehocl to introduce th e E.,.• sestee e ; while the Learned Serg,eant regretted that the practice of packing juries was falling into disuse, and disc ai zt.v showed what would be done in Ireland when. he and 'ells party came into power. If such were not the case, h e `;could , be reedy to apologize ; but the Learned Gentleman was hW forward, though he was ready enough of his own, accorod e and if his party did not disavow such scntimehist these, eer!el aicn'ts must be regarded as their own. lie (Mi'. O' r s - ionnel , was not there to ask mercy and compassion for o, !e people of Ireland. If he wore, he knew he should ask • ; r te vain. Se ts was there as one of the reprceen— tatives of the Irish peopl eto demand justice for them. The Honourable • and Learn ed Sergeant sight sneer—it was a ecrumotlity he did not d eal in.—( A laugh.) How could any 4s -n bi •Y Qf }Ational F R mus twit the Catholics of Ircluid with inferiority to the Protestants ? How could the Hon. and Learned Sergeant venture to abuse the loyal and patriotic As sociation which had been estabiis:)ed in - Ireland, to maintain the cause of their country, and to oppose bigot:) , and intole ranee ? It was trne that that Association advocated the claims of the Catholics, for it advocated the welfare of Irelznd. , The Hon. and Learned Sergeant did not say any.thing is hostility to the Catholics ; but he was a political hypocrite ; he did th at which he abstained from saying. Let him speak up ; l et hi,,, at once declare that the Catholics were nut worthy of bein-r placed on a footing with Protestants. Let hint say, " The law has proaounced them equal to the Protestants, but I pro nounce thorn inferior ?" And why was it that the p eop l e of Ireland were to be .considered inferior to the people of England, or to the people of Scotland ? Was it possible to imagine that if the Catholics of Ireland were to take one step derogatory to the Protestants of that country, the Pro. testant members who sat on his side of the House would ex hibit any indifference on the subject ? The Protestant mem bers who sat on his side of the House were as mach 'at- tached to their faith, although they might not be so sanc timonious as those who censured the orniseinn of any allu sion to the Deity in the speech from the Throne. If the Catholics of Ireland' were to persecute the Peotestailts of Ireland, would not they have all the virtuous and good part of the population of Ireland, and of England, and of Scotland against them ? When he saw that the Catholic constituency of Ireland rbturned a majority of Protestant Members to that House, he laughed to scorn the paltry masoning which went to show that the Catholics were disposed to persecute the Protestants. But he would make no further answer to the rigmarole speech of the Hon. and Learned Sergeant. Ile called on the people of England—he called on the Mem bers of that or of the other House of Parliament—to do ono of two things—either to repeal the Union, or to place the Catholics on an equality with the Protestants. Was it riot the principle of the Union that, in the language of Mr. Pitt, "it would make Ireland a second Yorkshire?" He ( Mr. O'Connell) loved Yorkshiremen.—( A laugh.) There were among them some of the best men in the 'country. What would have been said had Yorkshire been excluded from the benefits of the reform which had been extended to the other parts of the kingdom? And why were the inhabitants of Ire land to be subjected to exclusion from rights, any more than the inhabitants of Yorkshire? Mr. SH AW, in answer to the personal attack made by the Hon. and L'arned Member for Kilkenny, on his Hon. and Learned F. lend, said, all that his Hon. and Learned Friend stated was the fact that Mr. P.gott, being a member of the National-Assoc'i'ation in Ireland, had been appointed to an office most important with reference to the elm'. nistration of justice in that country. Now there was not al Protestant in Ireland who could repose confidence in the due adm.nistratioa of justice, or feel that his own personal liberty and rights were secure, when a member of that Association was placed in such an office. As to the noble lady on whom the Hon. an.l Learned Member for Kil kenny stated his Hon. and Learned Friend had cast imputations, no thing couldbe mare groundless than,the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's statement. His lion. and Learned Friend had not said a ward - in the slightest degree affecting the lady's respectability. But the Hon. and Learned Member for Kilkenny said that his Hon. and Learned Friend charged the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland wi.h being too merciful. His Honourable and Learned Friend's charge was, that the Lori-Lieu tenant had indulged in acts of mercy waieli were inconsistent with the preservation of the peace of Ireland. It was as im portant that no person who had lost his liberty by dee sen tence of law should be freed from the consequenses of that sentence, as that no person should I.se his liberty without due sentence of law.—(hear, hear.) The Honourable and Learned friend's charge was that the prerogative of* mercy had not ber.n pro. poly exercised by the Lord-Lieutenant. In the county of Carlow a Mr. Hudson, who had been proved befOre a Committee of the House of Commons to be a decided political partisan, was nevertheless made an . assistant-barrister; and in that capacity registered voters who had been struck off by the committee, and whose registration had been refused by his two predecessors. All that had been contended for by him, and by those with whom he (Mr. Shaw) acted, was, that they lirel no right to call upon the ancient corporations of Ireland to give up all that power which they e: joyrd, and all those privileges which bad been confirmed to them, for the purpose of transferring them to an opposite party, whatever might have been the faults of these ancient corporations in certain instances.. The Noble Lord, indeed, had declared that those who had opposed the former Bill for municipal ref :rm in Ireland objected to any and everythieg in the shape of ameliora. tion in Ireland.—(hear, hear.) But what was the fact ? It was simply this; that they were quite willing and ready to do everything that was necessary fur the reform of abuses in corporations in Ireland. The Noble Lord had contended that the granting a Municipal Reform Bill would of necessity tend to the preservation of peace in that coun try ; whil t a Learned Gentleman had declared that it would tend to promote normal schools of agltation ; bet this latter reasoning had certainly been objected to, because it formed practically a part of the system now in operation; and all subsequent events had served to con. firm that conviction. For his own part, he had stated that it was im possible to grant these popular assemblies without their becoming dart_ gel ous to the peace and good order of Ireland. The Noble Lord had declared that the National Association was the spawn of their own ' doing, an assertion which would-lead to the inference that the Noble Lord went the whole length of the proceedings of that institution, Was it consistent with the dignify of the law that such meetings should be allowed where large 831113 were raised for political purposes ? Was it not rather contrary to law to allow a society of this nature. an Association which, as originally formed, was avowed to have for its object the obtaining Corporate Reform and the extinction of tithes. These were the purposes for which the Association had been first framed; yet at its first breath it sent out its emissaries, under the name of " pacificators,l' for the purpose of procuring and getting up petitions for corporate reform and the vote by ballot. Ile would now refer to a leiter of the Honourable and Learned Member for Kil kenny, headed " Justice to Ireland," and dated Darrynane Abbey, the 27th of August, 1836, in which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman de clared, in speaking of the present Government, " No Ministry ever had so glorious a career before them Ireland, after more than six centuries of unmitigated oppression, is ready for conciliation—for union—for identification with Britain. The first dawn of impartiality is the first dawn of dutiful tranquillity. The great national question can. nay muse be now decided. Are the Irish people to be fellow subjects, or are they to be—l will write it—ENEMIES? Lord Melbourne may blot out the enmity for ever; he may make the Irish willing and most useful subjects.. . . . He must became the advocate of an increased and extended franchise. He must c assent to shorten the duration of Par liament. He must not shrine from the Ballot. Above all, he must prepare for the conflict with the Lords." Had nut the Noble Lord that very night made a statement to show that two millions of our felow creatures were in a state of want- and abject destitution in Ireland ? Upon the question of the Poor-laws he would not upon the present oc. casioti touch ; but he should be happy to go into it when the proper time should arrive, for he was confident that that was a question upon which Members of all opinions would enter without party feeling. But as to this alleged tranquillity of Ireland, in the first place he denied the fact, seeing that five murders and a great many burglaries ha.i lately been committed. —(Hear.) 'Was this a state of tran. quillity ? Could there remain a doubt as to whether the country was peaceable or not ? The Protestants of Ireland were willing to give up all unfair ascendancy, but they were unwilling to surrender is ex clusively to the Roman Catholics. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman here . adverted to the case of Mr. John O'Brien, and represented the oc casion of a dinner at which he presided, when over the principal table were hunebanners bearing the inscriptions of " The Repeal of the Union,"—" Abolition of Tithes" and " Vote by Ballot." And this. Gentleman, in proposing the health of Old Ireland, after stating that politics and redgion had been the cause of the disunion in the country. (as we understood), proceeded to give as the next toast, " The Repeal of the Union " and declared that that ought to become the war-cry of the people of Ireland; and yet this was the man who had superseded those who had been chosen for sheriff's. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had followed up a tour which he had made from one place to another, and let the House hear what he had chosen to say in reference to a nobleman' of large property and un. blemished character ; " I will tell him," said the Hon, and Learned zu.mber for Kilkenny, "that he, (the Marquis of Abercnrn), as a man, is contemptible—as a human being, he is ludicrous—and as a Peer, he has arrived at his title by the foulest crimes that can disgrace human nature." Now he (Mr. Shaw) would ask the Noble Lord whether he did pot blush for the man who could Ore such a description of one with whom he was connected ? The Hon. and Learned Gentlemanthen. proceeded in the same course at Sligo, abusing every one, and concluded his tour by a visit to Carlow, and " The Dublin Morning Register" ga-ee an account of the dinner, at which it appeared the same approptiate terms were applied as in other cases ; such as " Remember your seuls," " vote by ballot," &c. In alluding to this festival the Hon. and Learned Member fur Kilkenny, in addressing the company there assembled, said, "My friend, the Chairman, in alluding to the Conserva tive festival in this town on yesterday, talked of respectability. Respectability S What does my valued friend mean • by respect ability Y . They may have the respectability of the hog get or the ox, that fatten on the land they are as stupid as t.ey are maligeant, and as ugly as they are contemptible. Are they respectable for their virtues or acquirements ? Are they respec table for those qualities which make men truly respecti.ble—patriots ism arid humanity, or, - in a word, lave of country and of their fellow men? Na ; they are cruel, unrelenting, perfidious tyrants; their corn s solation is the widow's tear, shed amidst the ruin of desolate I villages, and aisle music is the scream of the orphan and the gromis of the ~.m s piling victim, who dies beneath the withering blase.cf that oppression which forced him from his humble home—from Use greets Seeds i s h ese Isis fathers dwelt, and suffers him to perish by ttse way side, ihcitseless and heart-broken wanderer. Like the ghouls', of the eastern tale, they live and delight upon susking out the warm heart's blood wnile life is still in v.gour, and reducing their.victinet o the grave before the chill of years or the comee of natural events carry them away. They love the wail of famishing children., said the , agony of ruined and agonised pa rents. Oil, Sr, let us not clung() the English language, or, at least, let us not apply the "term iespectable to such men.--(Some one crud cut " Savages In Yes, an appropriate term, although it is somewhat too mild, for savages have more of the natural instincts and sympathies 01 nature, and know nothing of the refined cruelties of such blood thirsty blnckbeads." The (lon. and Learned Member was proceeding, when ke was interrupted by Mr. P.OEBUCK, who rose to order. Sir. GEORGE CLERK rose to speak to order. The SPEAKER said, the only question, speaking strictly, shoulel limited to the motion before it, which was that of the Noble. Lord's. for leave to bring in a L'ill respecting Municipal Corporations in Ireland. Yet the subject had been opened and debated in connection witls the whole state of Ireland. With regard to the observations of the Hon. Member for Bath, who had rose to order:, be was not prepared to say that the Hon; and Learned Member foe Dublin, University was out of order.—(hear.) Mr. SHAW proceeded to teed the foßowisig further extracts from the same speech :—" Well, yin have all tins upon one side; these are the respectable uteri who ate opposed to liberty and justice, _You have the teis.pound 'voters on the other side. Bless those honest men who W car the fri-se coats, they are the truly respectable and good. Give me th:sees hottest men, the rues like Prunty, who remembered their souls and liberty ; those are the men who are truly resPe"etable in the literal meaning .Of the word." Ay, the mouth might 'Ater the word l ibert y , but the true spirit of lib ert y could not animate, the mind of those who uttered it. so much, then, for the abuse oi: the living ; hut the licit. and Learned Genileinan was not satstied , with this, but he must revile the deal Yes, on the day that the ()club of - 'lir. Kavanagh was an. nounced- -- Mr. O'CONNELL—It, was the day after. Mr. SHAW—WeII, then, on the day after, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, addre9.sing the same auditory , said, " Alas ! poor Kava nagh I"—(rma . e x c iamatioli was received with laughter)—" if he had not - made the fatal alliances be did, one would be glad that he would woulu 57:1., int o his grace in that peaceful obscurity in which, for his own sejce, he ought to have remained, and not have had the dead. cats and, COg3 thrown into his grave with him" (as we understood. the 114 lit Hon, Geotleman.) Yet Mr. Kavanagh was g,nerous to the! poor and a kind landlord to his tenantry, born on the soil too, no sas— s,-,n.ucti, no stranger (he thought that might have toutbed the II m. ai 3 it: 1 4 eamed Gentleman's heart) ; but he of whom this language was I Aid. was a descendant oi' Irish Kings, and on his death-bed, in the nridst of his family. And because an English nobleman declares that thr,ser who tatter sentiments such as these are aliens in language, religion, B ud blood, we are to have the standard of rebellion unfurled, an ,t the tielt:s of Ireland drenched with blood. The speech ended with. - hopes 4. that thu electors of Carkw would soca be delivered frail # .1,,e uore .• 1 Ipting tyranny of their cruel and paificlious landlord; Iv ~ ren ie a ,