The Sun. — London, England, 1846-03-14 00:00:00

, 1 01 !hire , uow 'r • tens— ol, 34s ' 4 , eir•- „ • 1) , byte e 9, 0 ,4 10 She , i y.l ,eed,',7lo i nd te r t i je, fer (1 LiprO f 5 11° , 1 : . ,bor° — „L.4 4 id pd 3 , 11 ' ;esierri, Ili gF T ee% 31. cr s T THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORN ING, wholly unsupported even by those most likely to be he netited by it. He would, therefore, move that it be read that day six months. Mr. GISBORNE expressed his concurrence in the sentiments which had fallen from the Hon. Member who had last addressed the House; in his opinion this railway would never be made, and if the House were dividot he should not vote in favour of the Bill. Capt. PECHELL observed Cat he considered that this was not exactly the time fur a discussion on the merits of the Bill, but he asked how was it possible those merits could be fairly tested except in a Com mittee of the House ? Mr. I'ACKE thought it would only be wasting the time of the House, and sanctioning the expenditure of a considerable sum of money to no good purpose, if the House were to pass the Bill. Mr. H. BERKELEY requested his Hon. Friend to withdraw the amendment, as it had not been usual during the present session to propose such an amendment. Mr. MUNDY—I certainly shall not withdraw my amendment. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the original motion 6O Against it 4O Majority for the motion —2o LONDON AND MANCHESTER RAILWAY. Mr. S. O'BRIEN and Mr. MASTERMAN presented peti tions in favour of this Bill. DUNDEE AND ARBROATH RAILWAY. On the motion of Mr. W. ELLIS this Bill was read a second time. GUILDFORD AND CHICHESTER EXTENSION RAILWAY. Mr. GISBORNE presented a petition from the land owners on the line against this project of the South estern Railway Company. EXTENSION OF THE CARLISLE RAILWAY. Mr. WARD presented a petition against this line. NORTH KENT RAILWAY. Colonel LOWTHER presented a petition from the clergy, gentry, and magistrates of Canterbury, in favour (as we understood) of this railway. MALTA. k ti 44l 4 11 4 5 Y PACIFICATION BILL. il % t e th DELL wished to call their Lordships' los e ). e 11th clause of this Bill, which he con- SF,' to,2tt e t o her an anomalous one, and one which he It'..--`,13. That before it went down to the House S,etit rt . I :hat clause in its present shape was a sii; te °tie, because it provided that if any spi to. eesuilt liquors should be found to have been e;',ta e lred " in any house or cabin, the parties let;pi th were liable to a charge of misde -80 ~Att one word about " suspicious dream -I,lllt h.. Kis• if 004 a .`‘ two or three persons assembled in a 1 Alta °end occasion, and drank a glass of beer ui, sra ea ° 2 gin. they would be liable to a charge wo;our upon no other grounds whatever; , on t " Were not accompanied by the other ksh 1 411 , " under auspicious circumstances." att t there,j k was a slight exception in favour of kti%tlii . ste;!_eleventh clause - was most stringent . and 4 pt c 2.lln its effects. Suppose that in a village STATE OF IRELAND. kki t 4ei I ,7 l ned district parties wished to provide Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that on the 26th kes, s, provisions ; groceries, perhaps, or other March he should move that the House do resolve itself ;,tl ii m4 li ci ,' O vv, if the grocer happened to have into Committee of the whole House, for the purpose of tsl4 r . , 8 in his house, and that he had persons considering an address to her Majesty on the subject of bl tti l *in t 'inking, or that he presented his sus- the state of Ireland. A, to glass of spirits, that person was liable ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. e.fles to lassaora -be transported. If a messenger went It was then resolved that the House at its rising k , 4 e ; a nd it should turn out, as no doubt it should adjourn until Monday next. 6 ; t ers s i l ua trY district, that the doctor kept an On the motion that the orders of the day should be ,R) 4l Publi c °P, that, under the clause, would be a read, iL li th ilort sti resort, and the messenger would be liable Captain PECHELL observed, that there was a Bill el ° n• He hoped their _Lordships would not before the House for the payment and enrolment 1 , 11, b et t Ze down with the others. Then there was of the Chelsea pensioners. Now he would wish that N, ,qi kequally objectionable. the Bill were postponed until a return of the Chelsea a/ Pri s -4 • GERMANS hoped his Noble and pensioners was made, and the number and names of the Vekail:sould take one clause at a time. places where they were paid. Vett Is b6ELL-No doubt it would be far more kb t k`l t° d° so. Mr. CARDWELL objected to such a course as most li s'r. .unreasonable. tat ; te s ,... GERMANS was sure that his Noble An HON. MEMBER wished to ask the Right Hon. Vas ' t end on the Woolsack had not slown Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government at what )le° to consider alterations k ti k i , the suggested by period the sugar question would be brought under the Wats o , l earned Friend (Lord Campbell). There attention of the House ?-(Hear, hear.) l i kt il e se ; 'louses commonly called shebeen houses, Sir ROBERT PEEL said it was impossible for him ' '; 4 tit ra s ,','f which were not bound to receive tra- 'to name a day when he would bring forward that N t o th _Lner than have any risks run, he had no q uestion. So far as commercial measures were con kititof the \II 04161roposed amendment. Ll T , oh s l a e i said Earlth t,ee sened, it certainly should have precedence. He would f most anxious e that at t the i t should earliest be period.brou t He under t u h p e u ns wouldproposed h e is ut otn e i w o e n r , the be o_ the tice rre e ' 11 . 1 ,1 e ,,, ar as very hard to say what houses, in some that the. reduced duties should not come into operation 1 1 :1 1t iabouses of public resort ; for instance, it tB/1 1 11b1: 41at grocers and apothecaries' shops were until the . sth of July next. TIDE BETTER PROTECTION OF LIFE k sasa cill !e reso r t within the meaning of the Bill. (IRELAND) BILL. liiZtlei' t s a °l WESTMEATH said, that any person Mr. O'C'ONNELL wished to inquire from the Right o h. I Ireland must know that a strong party Hon. Baron et whether it was the intention of the Go- N e 114,I n st the selling of groceries and spirits in vernment to follow a certain precedent which bad been k (10 t o d ' i in Ireland, and that it might be hard to established in 1773. In that year the Coercion Bill was nulsia, r !linguish in such cases, introduced into the House of Lords, and was brought 1,0;e 40 ; LIANCELLOR said, it might be hard to down to the Eons° of Commons, and he was authorised, ot lea it lof spirits in a house, but it was easy to he believed, Ily the majority of the Irish Members of Notl s jas bold, notwithstanding. the House to, ask whether the precedent then este- Napb e ,t`l, said that the Noble Lord opposite blished would be followed out in this case. The precedent ,1!)11 of pe a) seemed to have great sympathy for was this • as soon as the Bill was brought down to the t e ti te ~,r a i'ns likely to be affected by the Bill, but House of Commons, Lord North, then at the head hpe r tt the Noble Lord if he entertained any o f h er majesty's Government, moved that the tit I tia r k ,e unfortunate labourer and tenant, who Bill be printed, and appointed a day, after tt a utite, :`'n objects of assassination ?-(Hear.) the printing of the Bill, for its first read (llls guts of WESTMEATH would wish that i ng ; and as the present is a very important mit neet s d ; l'Lord Campbell) would fancy himself case, he was very anxious to know whether that prece , e nd ‘ Spainfor five .ti -a% 11minutes, surrounded dent would be followed in this instance. He wished to aerp as A eallina out for the protection of the know when the Coercion Bill now before the House of le a d th ? w as ° ,,t• - - -(Laughter.) He (the Marquis of Lords would be printed, and have a day fixed for i ts uett er 01 0 1 linion that he would require some first reading. It was very desirable that the House j' - Pitha , ,ca a for whole bones.-(Renewed should be put into possession of copies of that Bill before tll ati e s ill as th any discussion took place upon it. v W it , ,_ -en 'greed to. Sir R. PEEL said that there was a very material dif ference res isl a third time and passed. ference between the Bill to which the Hon. and Learned t , C T lON . tGAINST RAILWAY Member had referred, as having passed in the time of , 4 011 0.. „. CO N.L 'I 'ANIES. Lord North, and that which was now before the House ' 4 tei Qr s , - „,"AM pros. sated a petition from Mr. of Lords. The first-mentioned Bill was a coercion Bill, if 411 e -"!"; near Fat isley, Renfrewshire, which but that which was now before their Lordships was a Qi. se gation e aga i ns t two railway companies, Bill for the better protection of life in Ireland. Cql d , struck at the pr, vileges of that House in At the same time he must admit that the:precedent ei,:fr!e. Th e pe a, Lion had reference to V liii r4 matey, an d to which the Hon. and Learned Member referred Greek ock, and the Glasgow, was established in the year 1773.- (Hear, hear.) Lord 0 - 1 t • ° • l. nock, and Ayr, - Railway Companies, `st Join • North moved when the Bill was brought to the House yia ; t line, and it , e a .% respecting this that that it should be printed, and the first reading of it post it yin; w as made. The pet'seioner said that when poned. He (Sir Robert Peel) was desirous that the pre -4.144 before P a rliame• -0, the plans showed sent Bill should be proceeded with with out dela y ,but still t hine intenti o n of the projectors to take as the precedent had been establish ed, he had no objec t"gh the lawn in ' A t front of his ti ons ag ainst moving that the Bill, when it reached t hat ,tl l , consider a bl e expense he same to London House, should be printed, and that a future day be Feeap „ tieet and it was eventua ‘ly arranged that pointed for taking it into consideration. tt„, - 4 (e should be introduced into the Bill in CUBA SUGAR. kelt 1 - , ) Petitioner He ceder this ar- Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that, as a question had t ~,, . 14 • . r. went home N e its % judge his surprise to noti, w that when the sugar duties, he should wish already been asked about ga ga'seed the protecting clause was struck out. to ask the Government another question. It had been to this that the- • • . J e aw pre- N . t sar _ i IN ' gross and scandalous fraud cis tist th at th, e Par- about to make some proposition to the Government ya k , th House he (Lord Brougheun, 4, 4 "3 ' ‘, l ett Were bound to make inquiries,- - ...never England and of Spain with regard to matters relating to and Spain. with the Noble Earl at the same time stated yot,„1). as would prevent such maleprac OW% that it was not intended, either directly or indirectly, to kl tlie,.rea t was, that the parties had made us eal prevent the slave trade. Now, he (Lord J. Russell) ; I li k ,tlili p la ns to those which they had produL le 4ll wished to know whether it was proposed to admit the ti;. ho w " passed. The Bill was passed , 12 productions of Cuba ? a. of I tt h ` v er long ago it might be, if it could be ' Sir R. PEEL-Her Majesty's Government do not I f . earti e 1 ,,114, k; „ s had been guilty of such a gross contemplate the introduction of sugar from Cuba into ~ , ,, t 441 - such a gross deception on the House, the ports of this country. °I th • FAMINE IN IRELAND. 1 1 / 41 () , their Lordehips to inquire into it. te t ,_ _teet; A 'Nl ) YORK RAILWAY BILL. Mr. GEORGE P. SCROPE wished to know whether undertake "Ad - ` 4l of the Earl of DALHOUSIE, this i t , was the intention of Government to . , ) t. a first ti ' responsibility of alleviating the ;immense , ietii,`Prdersof me. the • eip s ad the day were then disposed of, and pose' it early day. calamity in Ireland at an f e_ }turned. . absolutely necessary that the wants o It wa $ aties_ ••••-•-_,.... 48 ,..._- O t, 4 t n etry should be supplied without delay. that c Ow s l '-ae sts -4' COMMONS, March 13. But it seen led to him that the responsibility of relieving of Ireland during the present season of dis )c 4 took the Chair at a quarter to Fourthe e ople p 4 )41.. e(t t tke,,,NEW MEMBER. , tresss bout A d he undertaken by the local authorities the f uar ,lians, and the landlords of that country. IN sr eh '"E . boards o g the responsibility had been unwisely t eh NTINCIL who was introduced by the He th( night that, MIL 4 4 and Major 't he G overnment ;and, indeed, he conceived O r or , Beresford, took the oaths. sand throw' a upon • dought to be the same as that 'h o ed e Ltt . Nottinghamshire. The Noble Ltird the co urse to be purs,le \ tt a his d Now, in England--(Murmurs i \ti se, entrance from the protectionist aide follow red in Engles • I toll S EC OND and interruption)-he thought he might say a few words Om, adssOND READINGS. on this subect, for he b responsibility Nfieved that a great . . t ot b't Bills read second t" d had been thrown upon i Q were a time an,be Government which they 1 4 kQ e( "lnuf - C.elieved that some provision I N , 44 041 itted viz, :- ought not to bear; and he . 4 44,v ort an Y* ought to be made to meet the coming scarcity in Ire . - ,i4 V t4 Il e , Le land. There was no doubt but ...bat distress was immi tie el ef . a population of Ire t4l' It o °t• Anne's Society. nent on a great portion of the' c. 9 S oa raY (Alrewas Branch). land. Now, in England, the boarsts of Iti ""West Railway Acts Amendment. the power to give relief out k tii4 te sade t i _ . ern aaih i . min ham Continuation and Welsh. _ho ~ guardians had of ()ors ; such, the boards wever, was not the case in Ireland- There only afford relief to .the poor by re• kliti4l(l Preston o f guardians could k ere the ease was dif &t,' -est ° ll and Manchester and Southport ceivieg them . in the . wor houses : H then in doors or ferent. Relief might be ad . muustered e ‘l,:,rtteittleierth Yorkshire Railway. 'out of doors. Then the evil was increased by the fact f N o °sure and Drainage.i that the workhouses were only capable of receiving one 'ci t s ' a ilw d i and Midland • • of the country. Nt e t tle aY Extension "and Junction Railway. I T er cent. of the . pauper speechpoepaulation u pou the matter, a b ero. _ ,,... (Stowmarket, Wymondhans, IH e was not anxious to matte ke for the emergency sit v p it t4d nott Branch). faut ,me provision ought to a made i t?:' °lt v ll l t _ i L eeds Railway r • that in.'ght arise, and he , vas, • desirous that the the right shoulders, II a il % l ' a nd Dorch t u sist l ensions. Tesponsi • 'Way should be thrown up 0? 1 . . . authorities to make fLi ps. em. _ .e es er at way. for it was the business of the local The 8- ' noon que N't th 13 4 ` . 'e 1 ry. provision for the maintenance oft he, r , whether their \,, 11 ( !ae rtt w i e i stry, and Chester Junction, and North, lion he had to ask the Government NV2B, it in Ireland as 144 0 1 , _ztailway Amalgamation . measures for meeting the impending ar se •: 2 , Y l in immedi pliiilslboVd South Wales Direct Railway. contained any guarantee, that every indivi u Ike' as k ." AND YORK RAILWAY. ate danger of perishing from want shoald . be , enabled to 1,t1, 6 - 4 1 , ,,ad a third time and passed.land ? obtain relief from some local authority, a' In Ene _ all 'NDON AND PORTSMOUTH of the Lio - Sir JAMES GRAHAM said the attention b a I *e a , RAILWAY. vernment had been directed to the subject. A ota: . 1 1 1 4 E ND als o ~„,read a third time and passed. fortnight ago, in answer to a question from the hill 4 ' 4 D LINCOLNSHIRE JUNCTIO N Honourable ISlember for Rochdale (Mr. Sharman '( A k p , o s re RAILWAY. Crawford) he stated then, and he said so now, that ri 1 : 1 ,000R :r a d a third time and passed. it was not the intention of the Government to propose kr k t H DEVON RAILWtiY. of for the relief of the poor lreland, 't op, . sInE, any other measures 1 , Ladaa,„ presented a petition against . tit '3 beyond those introduced by the Government. Perhaps, 't?-111. A Z to be heard by counsel easainst th( slail, 1 . h o wever, he might claim the indulgence of the House, N \'•,_Aas C° S I NIODATION ON THE LON - before the orders of the day were disposed of, ~ 1,,,,,p, B IRMINGHAM - RAILWAY , to depart from the accustomed rule, and make some 1 1 t , y P le, Presented a petition from a nut n ber 01 . observations with respect to the poor of Ireland. t t\44 AI ‘he i S e°aTelaining of the gross vas a l t cri The SPEAKER said the motion before the House j t tl it ti t ,'llls, Of 1411, -)TCI Coal. ed to the public r f.e the was that the dropped orders of yesterday be now read. !r %e t . Itaii and goods on the Lceed on and Sir J. GRAHAM then resumed his seat. ,k la 'last w aY, and pra • be beard by ;e l ts Pa all prig to ELECTION OF ANOTHER MEMBER TO REPRE -4,414 tty. ,),-. the extension lines - proposed by SENT THE CITY OF CORK. , I , ,, k t , t Y tti g t . l utl he l ,h 4 ot h ;, l .loll. Member gave, notice - that on ' Mr. (r'srs"ONNELLu postponed his motion on this sub , S i la s , .o e 14W p hi ch ° Toonvteeituheadt an u i y s petition be er r e e e fe h r , led e jec untiltA ThursdayNNOYANCE JURY IN WESTMINSTER. Ye i Ai• ed by the London and Birmin h tin Sir DE LACY EVANS moved for the return showing 1t .44 ',E1/ g . the amount and particulars, as set forth in the present titl,:Ag 'ale - interrupted 'of the amerciaments levied by each annoyance A , kilPetitio the Hon. Member 1 )7 meats of Westminster during 1841, 1842, 1843, kq r , 41 LE n must lie on the table. jury in the city t , tatatllll/13„ AND CARLISLE RAILWAY and of ' fined, also 1844, omitting the names parties the tql ts-ntt RP presente d • • from M'trade of the p arty fined, specifying deficiency of weights, 01 1 .4. 1 , this railway- a petition a C. N 4 'ot• 4 W a - scales, or measures, and the amount of flue ; which was ti si toe , f ..,f 'MR- WORKS BILL. agreed to. s c,°4 114., Lord DUNCAN, this Bill was read r c1 k 114 1 1 %11/, bo JUNI' th,ii w as C IC AND RAILWAY. .n the it 11,...O r dered to be read a second time on .tars. k 'fibtiii k ltSar 4 a 'ts All it IU a Ro , r ead _ PROVEMENT BILL. sent ' t i `.!ii s h, AN A ,n __second time. Ant N 'q'ill 4KBROATH RAILWAY E) :.• otter' F a'tt O h a re ad T ENSION. the F ti t ; ‘ ,, •41..) A _ a second time. I ) 4 ' f "ta Is ` 111) Pie Lndi ,_ „ sTERBOROUGH UNION "a it 0 . , ,_ PE RAILWAY. 041,44 tr LL in 4 • s • i Isi , ‘ toted the second reading of tl lid kti l _ot to .. ki ll' . ~ tt''t to ° fro re (l led th 0 Ai l *IN S te ,. ,e motion. The linen pan .in p 11 N of _r_ifir,„ _ ....iford to Peterborough, but it q 4 , 4 ,,, 4t , rei s taff Y_ I .n . lles of Peterborougn, or wit Isle I % it ) , 1 .,_ tt y fo u la• It was a line that had b b een Its tu:l l n tt ei e ',.. s peculation at the time w ben tt 544 Whatever for the line, and it vribe Mr. HUME gave notice that oa Thursday, March 19, he should call the attention of the House to the late in terference by the Governor of Malta with the religious ceremonies of the inhabitants of that island, and that he would move that an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that copios of the orders thereon be laid on the table. On the same day he should move for some returns respecting the post-office in India. RAJAH OF SATTARA. Mr. HUME moved for copies of all correspondence between the Government of Bombay and the Resident at Sattara, relating to the dismissal from office of Yes huunt Row Foujdar, late Dewaw of Appa Sahib, the present Rajah of Sattara, and to the recall of Ballajee Punt Nattoo to the Rajah's service ; and l'or a copy of a letter from his Highne , s the deposed Rajah of Sattara to the Right Hun. Sir H. Hardinge, Governor-General of _Cala, dated Benares, 12th December, 1844, together •ith all minutes and correspondence connected there ith (ordered 4th July , 1845), which was agreed to. FEVER HOSPITALS IN IRELAND. sir J. GRAHAM rose and said—lt had inten ti House on. on .the part of the Government, the at yesterday, to move for leave to bring in a Bill in order to make some provisions for the treatment of persons infected with fever in Ireland. In the cout.'4e of yesterday morning the Government received fro.: 11 the Lord Lieutenant, a report from the .Commission appointed to inquire into the distress arising from the failure of the potato crop iu Ireland, announcing that in almost every country where the disease in the potato had made its appearance cases of fever had increased very much of late. Under these circumstances, the Government feel it necessary to take some measures to alleviate the distress and danger arising therefrom, and I now ask for leave to bring in a Bill for that purpose. I ask for a Bill to grant to the Lord Lieutenant the power to esta blish a board of health, formed of a Commission, not ex ceeding five persons, with three Assistant-commissioners. It is proposed, also, that in establishing this board of health. power be given to the Lord Lieutenant to appoint in each union in Ireland a medical officer, who will at tend to the state of the inmates ; and from the representa tion of that medical officer, if he thought it necessary to make such representation, stating the appearance of fever in such unions, that the power be given to the boards of guardians to build temporary fever hospitals, and in failing to build such hospitals, at once to esta blish some place in the union for the reception of the infected. The sick people are to have the support of medical assistance and medical comforts at the expense of the union, and power shall also be given to the board of guardians to defray all the ex penses from the poor- rates. The Bill is limited in its operation to September, 1847. On the representation of the board of guardians that the fever has ceased, such report shall suspend the operation of the Bill. With the permission of the House I now move that leave be given to bring in a Bill for the alleviation of this distress in Ireland Mr. WAKLEY said, that in such cases as the present he thought prevention better than the cure. The Flight Hon. Baronet stated that he intended to place fever hospitals in certain towns, but he (Mr. Wakley) would rather that a supply of food were given to the people, and that that would be given immediatelyin no stinted nseasut e; and he would assure the House that if anyti ing would counteract fever or pestilence in Ireland, it would be an immediate and wholesome supply of food. By the late pamphlet written by Dr. Carrigan, it appeared that no change of weather, that no difference of e imate, would so much arrest the progress of fever as a liberal supply of food. He considered that the supply of food would be found much more efficient than any supply of me.licine. Mr. COLQUHOUN said, that when in the year 1823 a very serious famine had broken out in Ireland, an appli cation had been made to Parliament, but the chief want then was a supply of food. So it was in 1831, when a similar famine and fever prevailed. He thought that these evils might be fully met by a supply of food. Mr. OSBORNE thought the Government were ob liged to provide employment for the people, and if the Irish Railway Bills, which had been passed last session, hat been sufficiently supported. he thought that this dearth of means would not have existed. If Govern ment assisted the railway schemes—which in consequence of limited funds had not yet laid a spade in the ground— by advancing a given sum, then employment might be found for the Irish people, thus saving them the neces sity of asking for eleemosynary re:ief. Lord G. BENTINCK thought, that before asking relief for the Irish people, the whole of the papers relative to Ireland should have been laid upon the table. Mr. HUME said he was in hopes that the introduc tion of Indian corn into Ireland would have had the effrct of introducing a desire amongst the people for a better description of food. But he would advise the Government to be chary how they voted, lest their mis• taken kindness might be abused by importers. Mr. O'CONNELL begged to recommend that the Government would lend as much money for the pur poses of railroads in Ireland, as had been advanced by way of deposit. He would not recommend them to lend more money than had been actually advanced, and they should lend that merely by way of loan. There was great difficulty in getting in the calls, and if they were made (as they must be unless some such course as he proposed be adopted) it would greatly increase the ex isting want. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the Government had established depots in the different parts of Ireland for the purpose of supplying good at first-cost price. The Hon. Gentleman should be aware that in the present session, several Acts had been passed. advancing loans of money to the amount of 3 or 400,000/., for the purpose of encouraging public works in Ireland ; and there was nothing that the Government could do to remedy the existing distress that they did not do.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. WM. SMITH O'BRIEN said he was bound to tell the Right Hon. Gentleman that as far as his (Mr. O'Brien's) information ex . ended, he should say that not a single guinea had been expended.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. O'Connell). He should also inform him that hun dreds, nay, thousands of his countrymen were famish ing.—(Hear, hear.) He had himself seen whole families sitting down to potatoes, such as Hon. Gentlemen, sit ting there, would not give to their dogs ; and under such circumstances it did become the duty of that House to consider well the subject. He should say that as far as he (Mr. O'Brien) was concerned, he would not appeal to the charity of England. They had taken the revenues of Ireland, and then taunted his countrymen with being beasts.—(Cries of " No, no," and Hear hear.) But he would not dwell much longer on that subject.— (Hear, hear.) He, far one, was prepared to say that he thought the people of Ireland were able to provide for this calamity out of the national resources of Ireland, and he believed if they compelled the proprietors of land in Ireland to do their duty to the people—(Cheers)—that there would be neither disturbance nor starvation. — (Hear, hear.) He would, therefore, point out measures of that character, and he would tell them in the first in stance that they ought to introduce some measure to remove the evil of absenteeism. He would not object to the levying of an equitable property-tax. He wished to apologise for speaking in a tone which he felt sa tisfied would not be acceptable to the House, but, cir cumstanced as they were in Ireland, they could not re main passive spectators of the proceedings in the English Parliament. If the British Parliament were to legislate justly, they would compel the landlords of Ireland to do their duty, which would be quite sufficient to meet the present evil condition in Ireland. Mr. AGLIONBY feared very much that speeches of the description which they just listened to would have the effect of creating inflammatory feelings in the minds of the Irish people. The House he was sure sym pathised with their distress, and they still more deeply sympathised with thew under the sickness with which they were afflicted. He hoped that something more might be done than that which had been sanctioned by her Majesty's Government. The Hon. Member for Finsbury had proposed a plan which he had shadowed forth in terms so vague and indefinite that no one under stood him, and he (Mr. Aglionby) thought that he did not seem to care whether the House understood him or not. The Hon. Member proposed apparently that eleemosynary aid should be extended to the famishing Irish. If that was the Hon. Member's view, he (Mr. Aglionby) was certainly opposed to it, and was strongly of opinion that such a grant would tend more than any thing else to demoralize the nature and destroy the better principles of the Irish people. The introduction of Indian corn and maize would to a certain extent be suf of Ireland. lie believed that the present Government owed their existence to the support of the press. The press had pieced them in power, and continued to sup port them in power. The Irish Members would acknow ledge with gratitude the levying of a heavy tax on ab sentee landionet. The people were in a wretched state. .and were in many places consuming the seed potatoes — so that any future crop would he entirely prevented. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD gave the Govern ment and the House every credit for their kind inten tioos towards the people of Ireland. lie was of opinion however that the prepesed measure would be only par tially beneficial. lie wished to see such a system of taxation in Ireland as would secure to the tenant-farmer protection for his capital and skill when expended on the improvement of his land. If they had that stake in the land of Ireland, the tenant would not be in the dis tressed condition in which he is now found. With regard to the proposition contained in the Bill, it did not appear to him that it would supply a remedy for one disease alluded to, he meant the dangers which were to be apprehended from the in crease of dissentry, which the use of the maize would be almost certain to create, and which was generally caused from the avant of gond food, and be was certain that the Indian corn would produce at in Ireland. If the people were accustomed to make it into bread, be was of opinion it would not have that effect. These wore the only ob servations he should make, that the measure could not give that employment necessary to guard against the evils which now afflicted the people of Ireland. They should have measures which would give a stimulus to the employment or capital fur the improvement of land, and at the same time give security to the tenant. It gave him great disappointment that no measure had as yet been proposed. founded on the report of the Land Com raissioners in Ireland, and he, in conclusion, would earnestly impress on the Government the propriety and ne essitf of bringing forward a measure suc h as was re commended in that report. vV The Earl of NI ARa El said he should not address the House on the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet, but lie thought it an incumbent duty to do so, as he dis agreed with her Majesty's Ministers on other subjects, while he cordially agreed with them on the present. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Limerick told them that he would not throw himself on the generosity of the English Government. He (the Earl of March) entirely repudiated the idea that the E!,glish Govern ment, or tie English people, were at all generous in bringing forward the measure, as it was only their im perative duty to do so. But he did not like to bear certain remarks made about the want of feeling on the part of the English people. Did the Hon. Gentleman forget that in the year 1822, when great dis tress prevailed in Ireland, that there was a sum voted of 252,0001. to relieve that distress, and he would venture to tell him in the name of the people of England, that if her Majesty's Government came down to the House, and said that it was necessary that 100,0001. should be now voted to relieve such distress, there would be no hesitation in granting it.—(Cheers.) Mr. SHAW said that he thought the Right Hon. Baronet had cast some imputation on the character of Irish landlords. He deplored as much as tiny one pos sibly could, the injuries arising from absenteeism, but it Has useless to talk about a remedy until there was first given security to life and property in Ireland. With respect to the observations made by an llon. Mem ber, that it would be better to keep the oats in Ireland for the Irish people, be could not help saving y that he fully agreed with him in keeping the food at home, which they were accustomed to use, but he could not help saying, for he felt it, that there was great sympathy shown to the people of Ireland on the present occasion. However, he thought it most un f.-trtuisate and unfair that the question of Irish famine should be mixed up with the question of the corn-laws, for he thought it had done great injury. There had been very great exaggeration in the statements put for ward respecting the failure of the potato crop, and though he did not mean to impute to the Government that they made use of that failure for the purpose of carrying their measure relative to the repeal of the corn laws, yet he believed they had been led away by strong reports in the first instance, and took it as a part of the ground for introducing the measure, and found it after wards difficult to abandon that ground. He did not mean to say that there was not scarcity, and even un usual scarcity, but at certain periods of the year there was always scarcity and distress in Ireland : but he WAS under the impression that that scarcity and distress was exaggerated.—(Hear, hear.) Ile took particular pains to inquire, and he found that in the greater portion of Ireland there was an average crop, but there was a considerable scarcity this year notwithstanding, for he was aware that great suffering existed in Ire land ; yet be would persevere in saying that that suf fering was considerably exaggerated. With regard to the particular measure before the House ' he would not make the least objection to it, although he believed con siderable apprehension existed on the subject of increas ing the present poor rate, but he would give his support to the measure. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the statement of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Kilkenny respecting the sympathy of that House was not such as he could agree with him in, for he (Lord J. Russell) was quite sure that if there was one measure more than another which would meet the wants of the Irish people, that measure the Government and the House would adopt, if it was calculated to remove the distress which un-nap pily prevailed in Ireland. He heard statements with re spect to the distress of the manufacturing dis tricts when 150,0001. was raised to remove it—that a great deal of mischief had been done by granting alms without a proper inquiry, and that many persons had become paupers owing to the want of proper consideration and care being observed in dis tributing the money. The distribution of relief was re gulated by Mr. Christie, who was the gentleman chiefly consulted ; and he (Lord J. Russell) should be disposed to attach great importance to that gentleman's opinion, and should be glad to be informed what were his re ports as to the extent of the failure, as he thought it would be very satisfactory. It seemed to him that the measure of the Government was prudent and beneficial, but still he thought they should have had the opinion of a person so competent of judging. He quite agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury. that the Irish people should look more to great public works—such as, the formation of railroads— for the relief of Irish distress, than to any temporary aid, for he was quite sure that great works of the kind would alone afford proper relief. He trusted that the board of guar lians were adopting in every parish, measures for the relief of distress—he meant the district committees, that they had a communication from on the subject. ficient to alleviate the distresses in Ireland, but that was not sufficient. Large sums of money had, he understood, been voted for the purpose of proceeding with public works in Ireland, but the money had not yet been ex pended for that purpose. With respect to the Bill before the House, no one he was sure could ob ject fur a moment to its being brow,ht in. The relaxation, however, of the corn duties would be totally inadequate to furnsh relief, neither would the admis sion of maize at a very low duty make much differ ence in reducing the distress in Ireland. Sir ROBERT PEEL was very sorry to hear the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. O'Brien) speak in such vituperative terms of the measure which had been promoted by the Government to alleviate as speedily as possible misfor tunes of the sister country. Nothing could be more strongly marked than the eager wish of the House to adopt every measure which could by any possibility tend to evince their sympathy for, and desire to relieve, the distress and disease wnich existed in Ireland—even those Hon. Gentlemen who had thought proper to dissent from the course which had Leen taken by her Majesty's Government in affording relief to the Irish people. He (Sir Robert Peel) was of opinion that the evil was not of a temporary nature, and, therefore, the Legislature were justified in providing something more than a tem porary alleviation. Upon that point the whole of the House had been unanimous, and were, also, of opinion that the relief should be instanly afforded. They had given precedence to the measure which was proposed to mitigate the evils and distresses of Ireland before any other measure. The Hon. Gentle man, about two months after the measure had been brought in, tells the House that he scorns and repudiates the offered bounty of English generosity, and proposes as a substitute the lev y in g of an income-tax. It would be impossible to levy an income-tax upon the Irish pro prietors. Try it for six months, and see what would be the result. No ; he (Sir R. Peel) would say at once that unless the Irish proprietors can be induced to come forward and co-operate with the Government, all that can be done will be almost entirely useless. He was perfectly certain that if her Majesty's Government were to propose the grant of large sums for the Irish people, they would be granted without hesitation by the House of Commons ; but he would advise them to take care that this generosity do not defeat itself. The moment that the proclamation goes forth that the Government will provide for the poor, the people will not be so i rea dy to stir themselves n their own behalf, as they anxious nwsotuulrde e probably bad f, ln a d d e under h e E circumstances ngl s h c clergy y o adifferent most to exert themselves on b ehalf of the suffering poor in Ireland. Unless the relief was afforded with caution, greater evils, which it would be difficult to remedy, would ensue. Much had been said of the advantage which the execution of public works would be to the labouring classes. As to the railroads, it was a great question whether it would be advantageous to bring at once large masses of the male popula tion into different districts, away from their wires and families, and those who were dependent on them. This was a matter which required great consideration before it could be satisfactorily entered upon. He apprehended that if the construction of certain works were deemed requisite and proper, there would be no difficulty in ob taining the necessary supply of funds. He must confess that he was somewhat surprised that an Irish Member, who had taken no part in the discussion on the proposed measure, should come forward and say at the eleventh hour that the Irish people scorned the offer of English generosity. If the Honourable Gentleman would en deavour to stir up the Irish landlords in his neighbour hood to co-operate with the Government in their desire to mitigate the evils of Ireland, he was sure the Honourable Gentleman would be employing his time to much better purpose than in giving utterance to the opionions which he had just expressed. Mr, J. O'CONNELL said, although the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. O'Brien) was absent from the discus sion on the present measure, yet be was doing his duty properly in another part of :,He country. He (Mr. J. O'Connell) was, however, present, and coisld bear testi reony to the enthusiasm which existed in every part of the house to provide a remedy for the distresses He could only say that the Bill for giving increasod , authority to tte2 Board of Works had only passed a few days since, and three days ago authority had been given to the Board of Works in Clare and Meath, where dis tress was supposed most to exist, to put the Act in oper ation, and if there was any delay it proceeded only front the necessary choice to be made of some substantial work. Sir J. GRAHAM said that the report of the Commis sion was a report drawn up by the Committee of the Government Commissio n . Sir R. PEEL s tid that it would be seen in a few days what her Majesty's Government were disposed to do, and that they had not been led away by any strong re ports respecting the failure of the potato crop. Lord HAMILTON could not conceive that the Go vernment would be so base as to use the awful state of Ireland as an argument for a repeal of the co rn-laws, and he hop e d h e might say that he represented a county where there were resident landlords, who he was bound to say, acted fairly towards their tenantry. He would have risen sooner, when he heard a sneer about the landlords of Ireland from the Honourable Member opposite (Mr. J. O'Con nell), as if be represented the Irish landlords. Why did he not remain in that ball, where he was so fond of abusing landlords, as no one asked him to come here ? It would be better to make an honest application of that fund which had been extracted out of the miseries of the Irish people than to come there to make attacks upon the Irish landlords. Mr. SHAW rose to explain that he did not say that the G ov ernment were induced to propose the repeal of th e corn laws in consequence of the state of Ireland, hut the papers which would be produced would make no impression on him. Sir R. PEEL said that the papers which would be laid on the table might have no impression on the Honourable Gentleman, but all he could say was, that he had no doubt but they would make a great impression on the the House Government ; aed thou g w h e the re d e ti o o e n i e Gentleman n g h t d b e s ai st d a t that a o t f. Ireland, he had net the manliness to withdraw that statement.—(Hear, hear ) Mr. BEIINAL very much regretted the discussion which had taken place. They were all, he was sure, sympathising with the people respecting the distress which prevailed in Ireland, and he heard with much regret the remarks which had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Shr), and he begged of him to suspend his judgment. until Monday ; but he (Mr. Bernal) did not want to suspend his judgment until Monday, and he could not conceive why any Gentle man should be so malevolent and wicked a s t o endea vour to make a political question of such a measure. He would appeal to the sober feeling o f hi s H on. F r i en d opposite, and beg of him to throw aside all unwo rthy sen timents in speaking on a question like the present, for the Hon. Gentlemen who composed her Majesty's Government would notabgeesnoerbaal i se n a g n oi d r w y i i c n k t e o d t a h s e , s f t o a r te the sake of party purpos es : to make use o f a cause which did not exist. The R i g ht Hon. Barone t the Secretary of f r e e v p e o r r t w h a e s had they to stand still un d er such rtcherceeenisviendg, for the Home De p b a i r r t e m l a e n n d t , s t t a h te a td, typhus a cir cumstances, and wait until employm en t supp li e d t h e people with money by the erection of ; populationcas public works and n u d se w d inere the formation of railways? Could they show him that any portion of the poorer classes of the Irish people had money in their pockets to enable them to pure chase the provision.; which were indigenous to Ireland? If there were a dearth in any district in England, would it be sufficient to say to the starving inhabitants, wait until we have railroads, and then yon will have relief administered in the shape of wages. They must not now stick fast at economical doctrines —something must now be done—and that dene quickly. Every one was aware that the public works, 'or which Bills had been granted, could not be proc e eded with for months after the passing of the grant. They mu s t, t h ere f ore , h a ve r ecourse to extraordinary remedies where extraordinary diseases exist. They surely were not to let tha people rot in pestilential hospitals. The Right Hon. Baronet said that the endeavours of the Government would be of little avail unles they were seconded by the persevering efforts of the landlords. Well, then, what had they heard ? 'That the efforts of the landlords could not be depended on If such were the ease—and was there reason to doubt it ?—where could the unfortunate and starving pea santry of Ireland look to for relief ? For himself he would say, he would give his most earnest support to any measure which would have for its object the pre sent salvation of Ireland.—(hear, hear.) The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob served that although h e did not wish:to detain the House, he would beg to be allowed to correct the impression that there had been on unnecessary del a y o n the part of the Government in giving operation to those Bills which std already received the sanction of the Government. Mr. POULETT SCitOPE observed that it anything would justify an Irish or an English Member for tekinie up the question the repeal of the Union. It was 'the fact of his s.ieing, year after year, that the Irish people were nut treated as the English by the Le gislature of the country. What was the case of the people of England? They had a first claim upon the produce of the land. In England, as long as a man ex isted, he could not be allowed to starve ; before the landed proprietor could take a penny of his rent, the peer man should be saved from starving. In Ireland such was not the case, and equal justice had not been done. Now, with regard to the proposition of the Hon. Member for Limerick, that the land of Ireland should he made responsible for the wants of the people, and that they should not come to seek eleernesyeary aid from England, he could by ne- means assent. to it. Vv hat he would roc:elms - lend would be the adaptivion of the poor-law system to the proper organisation of in-door and out-door relief ; for surely they were not to wait until a man was prostrate from fever before they would grant bins relief. If fever were the produce of t amine, their first endea vour should be to remeve tine cause. If relief were to be afforded, it ought to be so before the unhappy individual reached that state of star sat on, whin famine wes its necessary con comitant. It was u-ged that there might be danger of impostere seeking that compassion and supply which they did not require. They would diseover an impostor by giving him a hard task of labour—but he would be seech them net to refuse food which was absolutely ne cessary to insintein health. An absentee-tax had been proposed. Now he considered that the best tax that could be applied would be one levied on the principle of the poor-rate, inasmuch as it would he one on the rental of Ireland. He was one of those that considered that property had its rights as well as duties—end the first duty of landed proprietors was, not to permit their tenants to starve.—(clear, hear.) Ile did not wish to impeach the landlords of Ireland, but he defied the House to deny that there were many individual instances where landlords in Ireland did not do their duty. How were they to distinguish between them ? In England they imposed the duty by law, because the Legislature well knew that there would be many instances where men would not do their duty unless compelled to do so. In Ireland the poor rate did not yield more than two pence in the pound, whilst in England it yielded from three to four shillings, so the Irish proprietors could not complain of being overcharged, if the proposed tax were carried out. As there would be many other opportuni ties of discussing the question, he would not further de tain the House, but he could not avoid making these few observations, as he held very strong opinions upon the subject. Mr. BANKES said that it appeared to him that there was now forced upon the attention of the House a ques tion, which must have occurred to the mind of every gentleman, that when the Government were in posses.' sion of all these important facts, it was their bounden duty to have called together the Parliament early in the month of November. If such a course had been adopted, this difficulty could not have occurred, and long before the present time the full effects of these beneficial mea sures would have been in operation; and, instead of diminishing the fever, they might have had reason to hope of preventing it altogether. He was at a loss to know what answer the Government could give to this question? They acknowledged that they were in possession of that information which pro duced uneasiness and disquiet in their minds ; and surely the natural means to have allayed it was to have called together the Parliament at the earliest possible period, and thus the means to relieve the existing distress would by this time, be circulated through the country. He would say, having heard the speech of the Recorder for Dublin, that the comments on it had been must unfair. His words were " that having been last week in Ireland he felt it a relief to his mind to state that he thought the extreme accounts of distress had been exaggerated, but that he did find the distres to be very great." Those were the sentiments of his Right Hon. Friend. and he wished to know, did he betray any want of feeling in saying " than he it felt a relief to his mind to be able to state the truth?" With respect to the speech of. the Hon. Member for Finsbury, it had also been much misrepre sented. Ile by no means said that his suggestion would be a permanent remedy—he only offered it as tem porary. He said, you intend to give them physic, try what food will do. Sir VALENTINE BLAKE concurred in the mea sure brought forward by the Right Hon. Baronet. In addition to the measures in contemplation for the relief of the destitution of Ireland, he suggested the propriety of purchasing estates, and apportioning them out in small lots among the people at a reasonable rental. If this were adopted, he considered that the greatest ad vantages would accrue, and the recurrence of misery at present so prevalent would be entirely prevented. Mr. Smrra O'BRIEN rose to explain. Ha would not make any strictures on the speech for the llon. Member for Tyrone. He wished merely that what he said would be distinctly understood. His feelings, in common with those of his countrymen, were greatly exasperated with the sums of money which had been grantei for the relief of the poor of Ireland ? Now what was the whole amount of this relief ? It just amounted to 100,000/. All the rest was loans. The sum which was annually drawn out of the country by absentees amounted to four or five millions annually, and the quantity of cattle, pigs, bacon, &c., which was every year exported for the purpose of enabling tenants to make up this sum was incredible. If they would allow these four or five millions to be spent in Ireland, he would allow them to take back the grant of 100,0001. If Parlia ment had met in November last, and produced mea sures for the relief of the destitution in Ireland, or if when they had met they had taken the case into their serious consideration, instead of hurrying through a coercion Bill, they would not be now under the necessity of discussing such a measure as the present. Mr. MILES said, that if 100,000/. was not sufficient to meet the wants of Ireland, he believed that a British House of Commons was ready to come forward with a grant of ten times that amount. What he complained of, however, was, that while they were then discussing measures for their relief, immense numbers were perish ing. The people wanted employment; they wanted not este remedy, but many remedies; and, as the Hon. Member for Weymouth stated, every means that it was possible to adopt, every channel by which relief could be com municated, should be made use of, for the purpose of averting the impending misery. He did not, how ever place entire reliance upon the exertions of Government. A great deal depended upon local boards. The assistance of Irish gentlemen, Irish clergymen and priests, would also be required to aid the exertions of the Government, and to stay the approach ing famine. As they had returns on the table, he would like to know it' the return he moved for early in the ses sion was among them? Ile had moved for a return of the highest price of potatoes. If they had a return of this kind for the last seven years, it would be an admirable adjunct to these papers. The people of Ireland it had been said were starving in the midst of plenty. They were exporting that which they should h ave for their own sustenance. Now, if they had before theta the report to which he alluded, it would be an excellen. barometer by which they could gauge the condition of the people of Ireland, as there could be:no better crite rion to judge of its extent than these high prices would give. Another return which he would like to have, was the capacity of the poor houses of Ireland to c swain inmates, and the number of paupers who were at pre sent receiving relief in them. They were now about to erect hospitals, and he thought it would be as well if they knew the numbers in the union houses, as it would enable them to hes, clearer views on the subject at pre sent under discussion. Ile thought it his duty to make these few remarks, and he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would give the returns which he required. Sir J. GRAHAM, who was scarcely audible, was understood to say that the first return to which the lion. Gentleman referred—in referrence to the price of potatoes—was to be found among those on the table. It (lid net extend over a period of 7 years, but it was comprehensive enough to enable them to see that potatoes had attainel a very great price ; and with re spect to those which were not affected with the decay, that if they were kept for another month, they would be utterly destroyed. As to the latter return, in refer ence to the number of inmates, which the poor-houses ' were calculated to contain, and the number of persons who were at present actually receiving relief in them, he had no objecion to produce it. With reference, however, to the present question, they would be quite useless. The Hon. Gentleman did not appear to understand the object which the present Bill had in view, or he would not think it necessary to move for re turns which had no immediate connexion with it. Mr. FITZGERALD was happy to see that her Ma jesty's Government were introducing such measures as the present. He thought, however, that there had bees too great a delay in bringing them forward. Parliament ought to have met in October last, and to have adopted those measures which were necessary to meet the impending evils. It was then pretty well ascertained that the crops iu Ireland had failed, and nothing had been as yet done to alleviate the distresses under which the people in that country were suffering, and it was now the month of March. No language could depict the distress which at present prevailed, and he was greatly afraid that they had seen or beard but a small portion of it. There were no less than 4,000 people in s t a te of destitution in his own neighbourhood. He a was glad that the present measure was proposed, and he would give it his cordial support. Mr. VILLIERS was surprised at some of the opinions of the Hon. Member for Somerset. That Hon. Gentle man appeared to think nothing so disastrous as the im portation into this country of grain, vegetables, cattle, &c., from Ireland. Let him, however, suggest a mode to that Hcn. Member by which this evil would be got rid of. Lot them get these articles elsewhere, and the apprehension which he entertained of the pernicious effects which their importation caused would be entirely removed. There was another point of the Hon. Mem ber's to which he would briefly allude. By way of carry ' ing out his benevolent intentions towards Ireland, h e would restrict the manufactures and commerce of this country. He (Mr. Villiers) in refutation of this opinion, would just ask any man to look at Lancashire and Ire land. Let him reflect that there were nut less than 500,000 or 600,000 of the Irish people, who were getting employment by the manufactnres of thiscountry. Having disposed of these two theories, and the Hon. Member for Somerset, he would now come to the sentiments expressed by the lion. Member for Limerick, and the thin. Member forStroud. The Hon. Member for Stroud said, that he did not wonder that the gentlemen of Ireland came forward and demanded a repeal of the union. 11PERIAL PARLIAMENT. Th • ii°ll SE OF LORDS, March 13. tlr Lordships met to-day at Five o'clock. l I,IIOEPEAL OF THE CORN-LAWS. ,her d'; i ii ; . ! . ESCUE presented a petition from the - ,, 4 "Lcri of the county of Devcri, praying that ` i dly ; 1116 bnportation of corn be totally and iin : t i e Ptaled. lie would state that the petition t /N e t 'Sin meeting called on behalf of protection, 4 t, the and respi-ctably attended, but which Ill, e present petition by a large majority. liIRECT NORTHERN RAILWAY I...itit4IINICAIRD presented four putitioas in favour Lk% hilt Zbi t t e ll t e r ers from the house of Commons brought up Ot t s 44 ,,tdon arid Portsmouth th, the London and York, 4 '„* . hier oi l l el l and Lincolnshire smou Junction Railway 444". tit House 2 of Commons had passed, and pray. 441CA:u'olPs concurrence. 4 to : 4- " BELL presented a petition from R the th t,, county of Dublin, against the Bill for liotlife in Ireland, at present before their Lord- Olg The petition was couched in very strong l ir v ";"g contained some very forcible epithets, but . : 44 ,there was nothing in it whi,h prevented its to °Y their Lordships. The Noble Lord was pro- is out objections to some of the clauses b of a s I lcw stood, when he was interrupted 0 1 41' 1'11° "Iggt wed that it would be better to Ito rd i r emark s till the third reading was moved. 1 "ly a . f tlio of ,s r ve way to the 4 "'ERMANS, who moved the third reading MARCH IT bread.--(Hear, hear.) -13ue the answer to all these evil we the one grand argument, whicb. he would not Lire the House by repeating in detail; it was the monster evil from which, he would say, arose all those distresses that had been complained of—an evil which the House was familiar with, but to which he might not, perhaps, more than dare allude to; he meant the Bill of 1819.—(Hear, hear.) That measure was one to which he ascribed all the evils that followed ; and until that was inquired into, no remedy could be applied. Ile looked upon the prin ciple that guided the acts of the present Government to be the same as the argument of the man who lost himself in a wood, and who fixed his eye upon the polar star, saying, that so long as he kept that in sight, he would he sure to get out of the wood ; and on he went until his course was stopped by a deep and rapid river, and he had to turn back again to the south.—(Hear, hear.) He would contend then that if the Right lion. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government persevered is this measure, he wotOd be compelled to come down to the House with another measure, the object of which would be to prevent the exportation of gold from this country and the consequence would he. that this country would have to fight against the hostile tariffs of other countries, to which this gold was exported. If the Russian, or the Pole, or the German, sold his corn in this country, he would insist upon receiving gold for it ; and instead of expending that gold in purchasing the taxed manufite . tures of this country, he took it to the Continent, where be purchased untaxed manufactures.—(H ear , hear.) flu those grounds, then, he would say, that protective laws were essential to the safety of national industry, na tional prosperity, and the stability of the Croy n. B e . fore he sat down, perhaps the House would permit him to show that the opinions he was then propounding were not new to the House. These ovations had been enter - teined by the Pi-,;he Hon. Secretary for the Horne De pertinent in 1827, and had been published to the world as his doctrines ; and so clearly, unanswerably, and dis tinctly, had they been put by that Right Hon. Gentle man that nothing could remove them from his (Mr. Spoener's) mind. He then appealed to his Right Hon. Friend to ascertain whether he since had changed the opinions then entertained by him ; and if he had, he trusted he would explain to the House the reasons for so great a change.-- (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He should say, that to his Right Hon. Friend he owed that adherence he then entertained, and which nothing coal induce him to abandon. If he were wrong in entertain ing these opinions, the blame lay with the Right lion. Gentleman, and he should, therefore, aeplaire He called on all classes in society then, me , ehants and manufacturers, if they realized an extended awl profit able commerce, to compel the Ministry to grant the Committee required —a Committee that would coolly z tut dispassionately, and without abstract notions of political, economy, consider the question in all its bearings. Mr. NEWDEGATE seconded the motion. On the question being put, Sir G. CLERK said that before the report was brought up more than one petition was presented, setting forth the inconvenience and less of time to the various trading communities in the country.—(Hear, hear.) Now, what was the manner in which the motion at present before the House was brought forward, or what was its obj. et ? Why, a postponement for six months. He (Sir G. Clerk) had expected that the Honourable Gene tletnan would have shown that the great number of re ductions proposed to be made would be attended by serious loss ; but, instead of that, he had not instanced a single objection. Mr. SPOONER—I will do so by and by. Sir G. CLERK should then consider himself as. troubling the House, such being the case, and would, therefore, reserve his reply till by and by, when the lion. Gentleman had fully concluded.—(Hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE made a few observations, which were inaudible in the gallery; after which, Mr. SPOONER informed the House that it was not, his intention to press the measure to a division.—(Ge, oh, and laughter.) He merely brought it forward for the 'purpose of stating his opinions as to what, its re sults were certain to be, and he then begged to with draw it.—(Renewed cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter.) On the motion that the Tariff be read, Mr. SPOONER said that he would not trouble the House at any length, but he merely wished to say that the reduction of the duty on foreign bronze manufactures, from 1:5 to 10 per cent., would destroy that branch of valuable manufacture. It would throw a great many persons out of employment, and he therefore begged leave to move that the item might be struck out of this Tariff. Mr. MLTNTZ said that he hoped his Hon. Friend would withdraw that motion.—(Laughter.) He did not believe that the native manufacturers would sustain no injury by this reduc ion ; on the contrary, he believed, that they would be seriously injured. He had only one fault to find, and that was. that all other articles were not included in a similar reduction, as the same principle applied to all things in the Tariff: He wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet if he intended to remove the duty from this branch of manufacture in 3 years ? Sir R. PEEL. in answer to the question of the first Hon. Member for Birmingham, who says that if we re duce the protective duties on Birmingham bronze mane factures from 15 to 10 per cent., the manufactures will be ruined. I can only state that with a protective duty of 1.3 per cent., the quantity of bronze manufactures from abroad, entered into this country during the past year has paid 'Si. duty.--(Laughter.) I will venture to say that the Birmingham manufacture of bronze will not be ruined under a le per cent. protective duty, but in the course of a year or two will he benefited by it. With respect to the question put by the other Hon. Member n who, I think, dissents very wisely from the motion of his colleague, I was asked the same question the other night by the Noble Lord, and said in answer that I Nl*2 not prepared to fix any period at which this duty is to cease. If the Ilon. Member will come forward some years hence, and say on the part of the manufacturers: that this duty should cease, I am not prepared to say that I will resist his appeal. Mr. MI'NTZ said that the Right Hon. Baronet •waF , not correct, when lie said that a reduction of so much per cent. would not affect. the trade. He believed that it would have a most material effect. What the Right Hen. Baronet had said about the principle of free trade was right so far us it affected one cl ss of articles, but the duty ought to be taken off all classes. He was anxious that the duty should be taken off copper, and he hoped that the Right Honourable Baronet would consider that article. If the principle were not thoroughly carried out, they would never have free trade in the the true sense of the word. Mr. NEWDEGATE said that the answer of the Right Hon. Baronet, and the query of the Hon. Member fcr Birmingham had come very nearly to him. He was bound to say, that although he had a large constituency in Birmingham he had not felt it his duty to take any part in this debate without consulting the great body of manufacturers. He had done that at any rate, and he could assure the House that this question had been con sidered day by day, and the more nearly they approached it the greater were their feelings of distrust. They felt that they would not be able to recover the first shock which the Noble Lord had admitted would prevail to a great extent when protection was withdrawn. With respect to the statement of the Hon. Member for Bir mingham who had last spoken, be would read a letter he had that day received from a manufacturer in Birming ham, in which that very item was mentioned. His cor respondent stated, that in almost every case the manu facturer agreed that the proposed reduction would be injurious to the trade, as they would have to compete with France, Prussia, and Belgium, where the metal was as cheap as in this. country, and there manual labour was much cheaper. The produce of Birmingham and Sheffield were forbid den in France and Belgium, and in Russia the duty was so high as to amount almost to a prohibition. The du ties on all English produce had been, within the last two years, increased in every country in supply' Each om in country was endeavouring to be able to wants. The writer of that lette r was every way cor th conclude by say ing,potent others thatt oof neither ih v t lie w he ou h id ad consulted w p h c e ilna H isosn o * : Members for Birmingham were at all aware that he (Mr. Newdegate) had received the same anomf opi ni on, this communication. Mr. S. O'BRIEN said that he would ask his Hot. Friend not to divide on this question. There were two principles recognised in this tariff, and neither of them. had been extended to the farmer. The main question was with regard to the differential duties in the import of raw materials. There were twenty-one differential duties, and more than 100 protective duties in this Tariff. He would ask the Right Hon. Baronet how he hoped to maintain protection for the minor articles, when the. principle of free trade was acknowledged with regard to the principle articles of comfort ?—(Hear.) It was said that the manufacturers had in large numbers solicited the removal of protective duties. In this re spect they had shown mere consideration than the fare leers, for the farmers had not advanced in procession to ask for the abrogation of protection. But he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet a question before sitting down, to show the distinction between buck wheat flour and flour made from the ordinary wheat? He challenged him, or if he could not answer, he would ask the Hon. Member for Grantham (Sir George Clerk), who could see as far through a mill-stone as any one, the distinc tion between these two kinds of flour.--(Laughter.) Mr. SPOONER, in answer to the call of several Hon. Members not to divide the House, said he would not withdraw his motion, though he would not press it to a division. The motion was then negatived without a division. On the article of bronze powder being read, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said this was an article in which he thought the duty should be done away with alto gether. Bronze powder was an article used in the manufacture of stained paper, and as the duty on paper hangings was proposed to be very much reduced, he had received representations from the trade, that if the home market was thus to be thrown open to foreign paper hanging manufacturers, all duty should be taken away from the raw materiel. The present alteration of the h duty on stained paper would only benefit the rich , , d a e s ff t L e duty still to be retained of twopence a a affect would materially kinds being admitted duty free oftrade. tually shut out the inferior kinds, 3. while rd th .o e u s . o trio; those who were engaged in this kind manufacturers complained that in this matter they were hardly used, as they would have to enter into competi tion' this duty on bronze powder, which Excise duty to pay and . of Already he with the foreign manufactures, while they had the they used in many descriptions paper... ha 3 been apprised that several paper-hangers had intime, tc .d. that if any loss arose from this taut/ it should D.ot be. taken out of the profits of their business but ft om the wages of their workmen.—(Loud cheers from, the pro tection benches.) One extensive paper-hanger in Isling ton, lately called his workmen together, rand gave them notice to this effect. Another one he (Mr. Duncombe) bad heard of, had kept s back utie.fifth. of th e wor k men ' s wages until the tariff was passed, with the intimation that if it passed, any loss should be deducted.—(Hear, hear.) It was unfair that the loss should fall upon the men, and, therefore, it behoved the Government to take care that all duties on raw material were done away witL 4 so that the cause, if such It course be taken, might be p M. y,, Esq., Captala its day' n. Car ted the -elected ;sed the nducted row the ators io egie. 01) D ive D Cock s ' Viscosilt ey nell• rellesley • the got' Queb 3 ' ins 1311 re :: as m iyon ?derl t , room left town e g o o.. I to 01r ek. gr. Sec' ;7.e. Itebetref Street . of D al' 'fie. f )aehY ° the ii°l3. I at F"" ise, neat TS , 14, i 846: Mr. SCROPE—I did not say the gentlemen of Ireland; I said the poor of Ireland. Mr. VILLIERS—WeII, then, the poor of Ireland. He (Mr. Villiers) did not see that the poverty or misery of Ireland could be at all connected with that question, and he asked whether it would not be neces sary in any case to have a poor-law for Ireland ? The Gentlemen opposed to that question admitted the ne cessity of that law. If there was a Legislature embrac ing a House of Commons and a House of Lords sitting in Duhlin at that moment, would not the first law which would engage their attention be a tax for the relief of the poor ? The other great argument which was referred to by the Hon. Member for Limerick for the repeal of the union, was the absence of the landed proprietors. Absenteeism he would admit might operate most injuriously on the inter sts of Ireland, but ab senteeism could not be laid to the fault of the Legislature of England. Ile would call the attention of lion. Mem bers to this fact, that the estates of some gentlemen who were absentees were better managed than those of the gentlemen who resided in Ireland.—(Hear. hear.) Mr. P. SCROPE explained. He begeted to assure the Hon. Member and the House that he did not wish for a repeal of the union ; he merely said that if he were a poor man living in Ireland, and subjected to those miseries under which that country laboured, he would be an advocate for the repeal of the union. He did not wish to be understood however as being himself favor able to a repeal of the union. Mr. N EWDE ;ATE said it appeared that. the ideas of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) were so concentrated upon one subject—that of free trade—that he could not hear of any circumstances that might militate against that doctrine; for instance, the Han. Member stated that. the exportation of agricultural produce from Ire lend to this country was a grievous, evil which at all times pressed upon Ireland, and he sugeested the wisdom of findii,g elsewhere the means of supply to this country, that Ireland might be relieved of that mighty evil, and retain to herself her own agricultural produce. He would not condescend to stoop to circum stances, such was his ardour in the cause of free trade. lie urged upon us the advantage that Ireland would de rive by having manufactures established in that country, and by retaining her agricultural produce, all of which measures would, us it had been said, be obtained by the repeal of the union. But if the repeal of the union were to entail upon Ireland the loss of a market for her pro duce in this country, it would only involve greater misery upon the people ; and he (Mr. Newdegate) must say, that in his opinion the repeal in that sense would confer no advantage either upon Englard or Ireland. Mr. FINCH, amidst cries of " Oh, oh," rose to say that he merely wished to observe that the great griev ance of Ireland was, not that she exported so much of her agricultural produce to this country, but that the demand for labour was so little.—(Hear, hear.) In fact, one of the greatest curses which could be inflicted upon Ireland would be the importation of the produce of American and Prussian labour into the markets of this cour.try, which would naturally cause the demand for labour in Ireland to be even less than it was at present. —(Hear, hear.) And such would be the result of the present measure of her Majesty's Government He thought that her Majesty's Government were, however, taking some steps to remedy this evil in Ireland by granting sums of money fur the execution of public works ; and he must say that, differing from them as he did upon many other occasions, in this, at least, he was of opinion that they deserved the thanks of the country for the measures which they had introduced for the pur pose of putting an end, if possible, to the distress and famine that at present prevailed in Ireland.—(Hear.) The SPEAKER then put the question, that leave be given to bring in the Bill. Leave was granted, and the Bill was read a first time. POOR-LAW AMEND.MENT Sir J. GRAHAM then moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the amendment of the present law relating to the settlement of the poor in England, the main features of which was to give the poor a claim to parochial re. lief after five years' industrial residence in the country Leave was given to bring in the Bill, and it was then read the first time. TIMBER DUTIES. Mr. H. HINDE presented a petition from the ship owner's association, in which the petitioners stated that they were prepared to give their assent to all the mea sures included in the Customs' and Corn Importation Bin, with the exception of that portion which proposed to abolish the duty on timber. CORN • LAWS. Mr. H. ELLICE, in the absence of the Noble Lord ;he Member for London (Lord John Russell), presented a petition from a number cf silk manufacturers, who stated that the silk trade was paralysed during the suspense in the measures now under the consideration of Parliament, and they prayed that the House would as speedily as possible pass the Bill into a law, in order that activity might be restored to the trade of this country.—(Hear.) Mr. W. ELLICE presented a petition from the manu facturers of London to the same effect. CUSTOMS AND CORN IMPORTATION BILL. Mr. GREENE having brought up the report on the Customs' resolutions, Mr. SPOONER rose to more that the report be re ceived this day six months—(Laughter)—and in pray iog the indulgence of the House he would state as briefly as possible the reasons which induced him to propose that amendment. By adopting the resolutions Low under consideration, the House would abandon those principles which he thought were calculated to advance the interest of all classes of society—(Hear, hear)—he meant the principles of protection to native industry— (Hear, hear)—be that industry agricultural or mann faeturing. Native industry had ever been protected. It had been the policy cn which we had ever acted, and it was by a close adhesion to that policy that the country had been raised to that pitch of commercial greatness and manufacturing renown, which it now so justly occupied.—(Hear, hear.) It was also raised in his opinion, under the blessings of Providence, to; that station and condition which it at a past period occupied, by means of that principle, and by it they were enabled to struggle against the effects of revolutionary wars. It was under that principle that the colonies had pros pered.—(Hear. hear.) It was their commerce that excited the envy and admiration of Napoleon, and fur which he would have given half of his empire. He bslieeed that if they abandoned the principles of protec tion to native industry, they would destroy the interest of their shipping trade, their colonies, and their com merce.—(Hear, hear.) And what were the reasons that had been given for abandoning this principle to native industry ? Why they had been told that past experi ence proved that a protected article was not damaged by a loss of protection, but that the price of it after the pro tection had been taken away universally increased.— (Rear, hear.) That was the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government.—(Sir R. Peel expressed his dissent.) He most undoubtedly con ceived that that was the view of the Right Hon. Baronet. The Right Hon. Baronet had referred to the experience of the last three years.—(Hear.) And what did he tell them ? He told them in the first place to look at the importation of cattle since the duties had been removed. That ground had been shown to be un tenable by the unanswered and unanswerable speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn—(Hear)— who, in his (Mr. Spooner's) opinion, was, of all Mem bers in that House, the most able to speak upon that subject.—(Hear,:hear.) Food was too scarce to feed the cattle at that time—(Opposition cheers) —and that was the reason why they could not he kept. That fact created low prices, and these low prices brought a panic upon the farmers, and the natural consequence was that the short supply of cattle produced an increase in the price.—(Hear, hear.) But they were told that from ex perience they had nothing to fear from the abolition of protection to native industry. As a case in point he would quote the glove trade. Before the abolition of protection upon gloves, there were in this country the largest glove manufactories in Europe ; but out of the 100 manufactories that then existed there were now only 40; and in his own immediate neighbourhood there were now 800 houses uninhabited,lwhich before the abolition of the duty on gloves were inhabited by parties engaged in the glove mane numb cheers.) He kne w a great number of glove manufacturers, who at the time alluded to were opulent, but now, in consequence of the great importation of they could scarce l y m a int a in their families. At r t e o n n c ov gtilmeesthey contribed large sums to the national but now, c i i n pi c e o s n , se ti l e u y enc: ,e o re f th c e on c s a i r g r n y e i d n the free trade treasury, g to ou d t ra o g f out the remainder of their days in comparative poverty and ebscurity.—(Hear, hear.) He knew also that the capital of the country had been very greatly in creased by that experiment. And the only capital of which the labourer was possessed, namely, his skill, and the knowledge of the trade in which he had been brought up was decreased.—(Hear, hear.) A man brought up to a particular trade finds it almost im possible to abandon that trade and enter upon a new The fact that it was a lmost im p ossible for a o fe i _ l a e ri to take up other trades than those to which he had been accustomed was most ably and powerfully proved by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London, in his celebrated work upon the British Constitution. Amongst other things, the Noble Lord had showed the fallacy—that when a man was forced to abandon his trade he could take up another; he told us, in fact, that it could not be done ; and he clearly made out this prin ciple, that it was not safe to be guided explicitly by ge neral principles in measures like the present, but that we should look to the practical effect of proposals which would affect the industry of this country. Now, with regard to the silk trade. It had been clearly shown by the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, that with re gard to this article, the principle of buying in the cheap. est and selling in the dearest was merely clap-trap.-- (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Spooner) was prepared to bear out the Noble Lord in the able statements which had been made by that Noble Lord, and he would request the younger portion of the Hon. Members of that House, to study the interest of the silk trade since the abolition of its protection, before they came forward to give their support to the present measure, which was calculated to undermine the interests not only of iwriculture but of the commerce of this country. Well, what next was the reasoning in favour of the measure ? It had been said that the country was blessed with an abundant harvest in a particular year, and the Prime Minister of the day said it was, in fact, too abun dant, and that a remedy should be applied in conse quence. But there followed immediately a very wet season, and the same Prime Minister was compelled to declare that the country was suffering in consequence ; that the population was too abundant, and that emigra tion ought to be encouraged. That was to say, that the best portion of the population of the country was to be sent out of it, and that the blood, bone, and sinew of the country were to expend their energies in a foreign land. At that time two Committees were si:ting—one of which was appointed to ascertain what were the best measures that could be adopted for preventing the importation of bad stuffs into this country ; and the other tat for the purpose of devising the best means of emigration, or, in other words, for devising the best means of sending out of the country the mouths that were to be fed by this - "gel 4 0 :4 At , A. oi