The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-26 00:00:00

1 the benefit of another class, who had proved themselves upon I this measure, yet on other questions the difference be an ()see m, •ei m • el .1 sses m e es est disest el. In. terem te. ea tereselt end tl.em was as greet az ever. The Nale Mar lent, and na Ist seditious.—( Hear hear.) The last night that • gins then proceeded to read extracts from the report of the Lord John Russell was leader in the House of Commons he Ecclesiastical Commission, and that of which Lord Devon was gave notice of his intention to bring forward a measure for a the head, to show that the (minions of those who had bestowed fixed dui? of 8s on the importation of all description of foreign -he most d , liberate attention to this subject, believed that the grain. That notice t fer it was only a notice) was met with repeal of the corn-laws would be beneficial to England as well evident marks of disapprobation, not only on the part of the as Ireland, and concluded by stating that he felt bound to give Conservative members of the House of Commons, but also of this measure his most cordial support—( Cheers). many of the principal Whig members, although they had on Lord STANLEY—It is with great mistrust of my own all other occasions given their support to the Premier, abilities and powers, but combined with the most unhesitating There was ne person snore against that measure than the, conviction of the truth and strength of the case which I have Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government. No to support, that I venture to submit myself to your Lordship' sooner was the notice given by the Government than he assem. indulgence while I enter into the defence of a system of law bled a number of his political associates at his own house, and which has been designated by a Noble Earl as an " absurd consulted with these persons as to what was best to be done in system;" a measure which is most vehemently and dangerous! order to save the country from these calamities. There were assailed by those by whom it has hitherto been most ably and several Lords in that House who, as well a s himself, were strenuously supported, and to whom it owes its very existence. present on that occasion. The result of those deliberations I feel how much need I have for your indulgence, as I find was, that Sir Robert Peel should bring forward a motion of myself on the present occasion opposed to all those who have want of confidence in the Government. That motion he beets hither oI he leaders of both the great parties into which brought f,srward, and made, as usual, a very able speech ; but your Lordships' House and th, o ther House have been divided. he rested his case upon two points—first, the p ro p ose d aters- But, my Lords, however painful I may feel the inequality of tion i n the suga r duties, on which th e Gov e r nment h a d b een the contest in po i nt of a bili t y, I cannot admit that the weight beaten by a majority of 40 ; the other p o i n t was th e propose d o f aut h or i ty i s in f avour o f those who propose a repeal of the alteration in the corn duties —a fixed dut. of Sr. i n li eu o f th e corn-laws. My L or d s , I will not appeal (it would be invidious existing sliding scale. After four or five nights ce- in me if I were to do so) against the present authority and bate, this motion was carried by a ma j or i ty o f op i n i ons o f t h e Noble Lords upon the other side of the House, one, th ere b e i ng 312 i n f avour o f t h e mot i on, an d to t h e op i n i ons which have been ?ogle Lords formed and the expressions 311 against it, which, with the 4 t e ll ers , ma d e 627 w h o vo t e d w hi c h have been made use of by those themselves. Lords, on that on that occasion, being th e l argest num b er w h o e ver But I will venture, my to appeal from the authority of voted in the House of Common,. H e (th e D u ke of Cleve- the living to the authority of the dead.—(Cheers.) I will land) might assume that his vote had turned the scale ; it was venture to appeal from the authority of the statesman of the quite clear, however, that if he had voted the other way, the present day to all those great names whose measures Government would have had the majority. He challenged have been made the liberal and commercial policy of any person to prove that he had ever given two votes in direct England in time ,- tot long gone b y — to the b r i ll i ant contra-distinction to each other, or that he had ever given one names of Chatham, of Pitt, of Huskisson.—(Cheers.) And, Upon ether than conscientious motives. It was with this view my Lords, when I mention the names, and refer to these whose that he belonged to party, and though he bad always belonged eloquence is still ringing in your Lordships' ears—and would to to party, he had not always belonged to the same party—( A God their prudence and wisdom still directed the counsels of laugh )—and he could assure their Lordships that it was not this great country-- I trust I shall be forgiven by those of my because the name of one party was Peel, and the other Rus- Noble Friends who now occupy seats in your Lordships' House, sell, that he supported the former, but because he believed even if against their opinion I refer to those who first cast au the principles of the one were better than those of the other. unblemished lustre on the names of Canning and Liverpool.— But he had no hesitation in saving that if he could have fore- ( Cheers.) From those it is that I have to appeal to the states seen that the very same Minister would have, after five years, men of the present day. And, I believe, I may also appeal to changed his opinions—he who was the keystone of Conserve- the authority of all th ose w h o have sway e d the destinies of the tism—he need not tell their Lordships that he would sooner country, or who have taken a prominent place in the nations of have cat his right hand off than have given the vote he did. the world.—( Cheers. ) I meet the Noble Earl, who opened There was no doubt that the opinions of, the Right Hon. the dimuszion. and who says that the question has not been Baronet were very able, but after all they were the very same raised by former Governments, upon the principle of protection, he himself had answered when efr. Cobeee had urged them on and I say, that if my Noble Friend will search the record of him three years after. He would inform their Lordships that history, from the earliest time down to the present day, he will he was favoured with a perusal of this Bill previous to the find successive statistics in successive ages, that the principles meeting of Parliament. He did not m mplain of the informa- which guided the Ministers of this country were the principles tion being given to him individually, bat he must say that of encouragement to domestic industry and protection to the before a great measure of this description was proposed— agriculture of the country.—(Cheers.) So early as the reign a measure which would make ate h a change in the policy of of Edward the Fourth, I recollect a memorable preamble, this country and of the Government—he thonght it was the which might be applied to the state of society in the present duty of the Government to have asssemblsel their friends in day, which recites, if I remember right, "That, whereas the both Houses, and to have given them information of their in- labourers and occupiers in husbandry"—not the great owners, tended measure, and of the power they had of enforcing it. b u t th e great proprietors of land—but " Whereas certain la- He was told that the Right Hon, Baronet, by pursuing those to ur ers and occupiers in husbandry, being grieviously endarnaged arguments which', it was known he could use so plausi- by the bringing in from other countries and ports of corn into bly, had • converted a number of wealthy landowners the realm when the price of corn grown within this realm is to his own views. He was not one of those low." The Act then goes on to prohibit that importation who would find fault with the opinion of any man, nor had i.e until the price of corn was as high as 6s. a quarter. The same a right to do so, but he did not concur in the opinion given, principles have guided the Legislature from that day to the The wealthy landowner did suffer by this measure, but the present, varying according to the circumstances of the country, greatest sufferer would be the small landowners and country varying according to the exigencies of the times, varying ac gentlemen.—(Hear, hear.) Another class of sufferers would cording to the state of husbandry, or the state of the relations be the one which ought to be, and was, the pride of the of the country with foreign powers. But through all, and at country—he meant the yeomanry, who derived incomes of from all times, this pinciple has been considered necessary in order 2001. to 3001. per annum from landed property ; and whatever to secure the independence of this country upon foreign na reduction this measure would make on the amount of their tions for the supply of food. It has ever beer, the policy and Produce, from 10 to 20 or 3 0 per ;tent. would inevitably fall on interest of this great country to give encouragement and pro these yeomen.—( Hear, hear.) The next class of sufferers tectiori to the cultivation of its own soil.—(Loud cheers.) My Would be the tenant-farmers ; and. with respect to that subject Lors's, I will not be satisfied with home authorities upon the be had heard of an argument so absurd that he was sure that subject. There is not a nation in the world at the present it would not be used in that House. He had heard it said that time of any eminence, not one but has acted upon the same this was a landlords' question, and that it would not make the principle. There is not one that has ventured up to this hour least difference to the tenant. In South Briton, in conse- on that bold and rash experiment in which your Lordships are quence of the management of the land there, this measure invited to join. I mean leaving provision, the food of the Would make a material difference. The tenant took a farm people, unrestrained by legislative, unprotected by fiscal front his landlord, paying all dues and taxes, not excepting the regulations, and subject to mere chances, subject to the _property - tax , t h e amount o f w hi c h h e was s l owe d to deduct changes consequent upon unfriendly relations, or the inability from the rent. He took all risks of season and disease in the of supply from foreign countries. My Lords, go through the crops, and the surplus money which remained on the sale of nations of the earth—France and Holland have both of them not the stock and the payment of ad expenses, was divided between only a system of protection but they have a sliding scale. Prance the landlord and tenant, the latter taking all the risk, has a sliding scale infinitely more complicated. Belgium, Den- Very few landlords received more than a fourth of the produce mark, Sweden, Norway, the Germanic Confederations, Por of the land in rent. Let them take a farm of 300/. rent yearly, tural, Spain, the Roman States, Greece, Austria, Turkey, this measure, he was pursuaded, would reduce the gross pro.. 'Egypt, United States of America. Having gone through the duce of such a farm 20!. per cent. This would leave the rent principle nations, I will tell you there is not oec who ventures 2401., while the 900 e, which was the property of the tenant, to leave it's agriculture unprotected, and leave the provision for would b e reduced to 7201. Thus it appeared, that while the the food of its people dependent upon chance. And when I Measur e would take 180/. from the tenant's 800/.. it took but see all this, not only I cannot admit the weight of authority is 601. from the landlord. He now came to another class that with the promoters of this Bill, but I venture to doubt the would be effected—the agricultural labourers. He was per- authority of that which has been put forward as an indisputable s uaded that the effect of this law would he to throw tens of axiom—that the prime facie inference is in favour of an thousands, he might almost say hundreds of thousands, out of unrestricted trade.—(Cheers.) Upon the contrary. with employment. He could net see how the poor lands were to be all the weight of evidence passed and present, with every maintained in cultivation ; and if so, those who were employed variety of denseness of population, and scarceness of popula upon them, would be sent adrift.. The tie between the tion, with every possible variety of civil institutions from the labourers and the farmers, by which the former had hi gne; t form o f absolute monarchy to the lowest forms of re his root in the soil, and which existed in no other publicism, when accompanied by the authority of all the eoun trade or branch of industry, would be torn asunder, and they tries in favour of a system of protection, lam compelled to would have no longm found them the means of subsistence by admit that that which is held to be an indisputable axiom in their industry. Not only would the labourers on many tracts favour of free trade, is I contend rather prima facie inference of land be sent adrift, but the farmers engaged in the cultiva- that gatemen in former times, and all countries tion of superior lands would employ a lest number of hands of the present day, are not only not destitute of sound then they did at present. Just in proportion as land was opinions, political wisdom, and sagacity, but that tee single thrown out of cultivation, the number of factories and mills theme of enlightenment which has dispelled the universe! would be increased, and then employment would be given to darkness was not that flash which simultaneously, and with the labourers who would be withdrawn from the land. He marvellous power, enlightened the statesmen of the present hoped their Lordships would pause before they passed the Bill day in the month of November last.— Cheers.) I hope I need for the displacement of labour. Let them contrast the agricul- not assure your Lordships that, however deeply I may deplore tural labourer, who lived it might be in a small, but certainly in the course that lam compelled to take, no words which an independent manner, who resided in the bosom of his may fall from my lips in the course of the observations which I themfamily, contr as t hi m i n t hi s state with his condition if removed with the deep respect I entertain of my friend's public a to manufacturing town, breathing the atmosphere of a room an d persona l c h aracter, nor t h at t h e s li g h test s h a d ow o f sus where si c k an d healthy huddled together, w h er e in winter he picion can find a place in my mind with respect to the could not se e th e sun at noon d ay; yet th i s was the entire - purity of his intentions—if the prominent position condition, it was proposed to transplant the agricul- which the Noble Duke occupies did not place him, I tural labourer to, in the event of the p ass i n g of thi s Bill, will not say beyond the reach of criticism, but above the appre- The small tradesmen in country towns, the small shopkeepers hension of censure. Let me refer your Lordships to the high and artisans, who derived their subsistence from the landowners mindedness of my Noble Friend's character—his utter forget or labourers, would be materially injured, and after them came fulness of self. I will not call your Lordships' attention to that another class of persons of a superior sort, who were not un- trait of his character—his abhorence of all that is low, mean, worthye of thei r L or d s hi e s' consideration, he meant the paro- or se lfi s h. Th ere must b e su ffi c i ent groun d s to your L or d s hi ps c snal clergym en; no c lass would suffer more by the passing of a nd th e w o r ld th a t w h a t ever ma y b e th e c i rcumstances i n w hi c h this Bill than they. The landlords might in some degree be he is placed, his decision has been formed upon the sense—l c ompensated for their lass by an improved system of agricul- think a mistaken sense, but I doubt not a sincere sense—ot tore. But the parochial clergyman was bound down to a cer- what is best for the public good; nor will I presume to judge tain quantity of wheat, no matter how the prices might vary in of the convictions of my Right Hon. Friend at the head of the the market.- He had no hesitation in saying that an attempt Goverment. I believe that he considered this measure would next be made by Sir Robert Peel and his party on the was called for by the great emergencies of the country. Irish Church.—( Hear, hear.) A clamour had been raised _(('heers.) A man of his great and close experience against the Irish Church, and if on this question the Legis- could not have failed to foresee, as the inevitable consequence lature w ere ca ll e d u p on to conc ede to c l am o ur , h e contended of this measure, the complete dislocation and disruption of all they must yield to clamour hereafter on that and all great party ties, without which, in my judgment, the government questions.—(Hear, hear.) And after the Irish Church had of any country cannot be steadily conducted. —( Cheers.) been destroyed, an attempt would be speedily made to destroy He might have foreseen the shock which would have been given the Church.—( Near, hear.) If this mea s ur e were passed to public confidence in public men—he might have foreseen they would find that both one Church and the other would the shock which would have been given to the confidence of be destroyed in a very few years, and he did con- the people in the consistency of their representatives—to the jure their Lordships to pause befere they gave confidence of the country in the House of Commons • and their assent to such a measure. The House of Lords forgive me, my Lords, for saying to your Lordships' House, ' 'f' had always stood in a high estimation, and he hoped that by unhappily, you should imitate the too conversion of the • • character. They all knew that a building, not very far from maul and convul • struggle between personal . attachment d their Lordships' House, was often infested with a peculiar sort and P public principles 'ln t g was exposing his warmest and of vermin—( Hear, hear)—but he hoped that such vermin most devotetifriends— o h w e must have felt equally the injury he would never be seen running across their Lordship? House, He was doing to his public reputation, to the destruction he was begged to apologise to their Lordships for having so long tres- causing to the means of his own usefulness, and believing that Passed upon their a tt en ti on. H e h ope d t h at if h e h ad an i mad- he foresaw all these consequences, I cannot but conceive that V erted in any stro ng manner upon t h e G overnment, he could he conscientiously believed, in making this change that it was assure them it was not with a view of giving offence to any of called for in consequence of the emergency of the country. I l e t s , members. Nothing co u ld b e s c urt h er f rom hi s intention, think, ho wever , th a t h e comm itt e d t h e most f ata l error w hi c h But placed in the i n d epen d ent pos i t i on wh i ch he occupied, and a statesman can commit,. that of takingnoisy the torrent of Which be hoped he s h ou ld ever ma i nta i n—( Hear, h ear ) — he agitation for the still, deed, noiseless torrent of public opinion. It Considered it his duty to call upon their Lordships to defend will not be the least of the unhappy consequences of these un those interests on which he believed depended the peace of the happy measures that this country and the world will believe country at large, and the welfare and the pro s p er ity o f the whole community.—(Cheers. ) that a triumph h as b een ga i ne d b y an organised and inte reste,i association over th e fi rs t Mi n i s t er o f t h e C rown, and that The Marquis of LONDONDERRY felt anx i ous t o address a of st t i h l e l more cro fatal triumph has been gained by a first Minister their Lordships for a short time, with respect to what had fallen Crown, actin under t the influence of that association, over his (Hear suppoii , : a rs, ) and the independence of front his Noble Friend (the Noble Duke on the cross benches). Parliament. — d. r.. Now, my Lords, with He felt called upon to do so, oecanse they were inhabitants of these observations I , al h l owe p v e e rso ,h n et a x l i.nes o , p tv in y i7 e s : With regard to this measure m l ' Must the same to en, and in a great measure connected with the same county. Ile had not defaulted g h r im et ttobactasatnyaoNy o e b e l o e so L r o e rd op s o h n ou t i h d o tav vi e oh t l ho u t g . ~ iedi t becoming to be present in their Lordships' House when his Noble min men who, Friend presented the petition from the county of Durham, for words on its presentation. abandoned by their former friends, have put themselves forward he would have wished to say a few admit, that the meeting at in a struggle, and who have exhils s i e te a d o t l a o le o n g t a w s which reflects r e e o ll u e l c d ts eo th o- e from oe theca sNvi ieeeniwd His Noble Friend would, no doubt, highest credit upon them, bona Which that .iends they had the modesty to keep these opinions p et ition was agreed to, was held before there was • fide in their f ' Con an explanation of her Majesty's Government T a h s e t m o e t e h t e in c g ou vi rs a e s they intended to pursue upon this question. t e o — y ( o kiamy intention to but to your reason. Ido not It was the first rid at an early period after the publication of Lord John pforlelo,ewntnot desire to speak on the 'lumen's letter to the electors of London. on the subject of the wise to ' Marquis.reapra'ssbi .e hear.) It i s not Meeting, he believed, held in England i aggravate your feelings of mortification ; I might use a that letter. The meeting aorn-laws, after the publication of f the Noble Duke's stronger word than that ; I might refer to such feelings as Was only partially attended, an d many 0 would be felt by persons finding themselves deceived by those n a canvas through the in whom they put their trust. Neither will own tenants were present at it. Aft attached to the I enter upon the whole county, the total number 0 f signatures question of consisteney • if I were to do so I should have to r hundred. Now, direct attention to N ' petition was two thousand and theme or fou oble Lords upon both sides of the House. h e b e t„vei , 6 i of • about Ther has been upon both sides of the House a difference of considering that Durham consisted, be- opinion, not 1 ,200 registered farmers, there being 7,000 in one, and that as' the n, so much on the real question of protection tween 4,000 and 5,000 in the other division, he thought ie my Lords, amount l of protection to be afforded. And such. a petition signed by 2,300 oily, could not represent tie feelings that down the believe to have been the case to period of , that of the people of the county of Durham. He be l i eved memorable conflict, athat .e 1 the people of the North of England generally entertained z, r )osa yranditoqua, in November, 1845.—( Loud t very strong feeling as to the desirableness of this measure. He cheers.) It may be that some of your Lordships were about confessed be had not mixed with the farmers of this country as t o vote in favour of the second reading of this Bill —are de- Mush as his Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond), but he sirous of recording your opinion against the principle of a on the whole, sliding scale, and that you intend, in the progress of the men- Possess he might say, that Sir R. Feel did, thought country. He sure, to give effect to that opposition to the sliding scale b P"ssuss tie confidence of the peo pie of this with y sup could assure his Noble Friend th at he had m . of mixed 1 porting a fixed duty. If that be the case, I have not a word the farmers of his own neighbourhood, and the majority l to say against th e perfect honour, fairness, and consistency of the course. Now, turning them were of opinion, that although this measure might be of from personal matter to a much a momentary injury to them, yet thee it would ultimately lead wore important point, namely, the arguments upon which the their fellow countrymen ; Bill is founded, I must say that the difficulties of the question to the prosperity of themselves and and cons'd ' - h i ering t at the Government of which Sir Robert were not much removed by my Noble Friend who opened the Peelthe destinies of debate. I do not complain that neither he nor any other was the head had so prosperously ruled this country, he thought not asking too much of Metulem of the Government has yet stepped forward to explain that it was their Lordships , bsecure the ser- the grounds upon which they vindicate their conduct, for when vices of such an y voting for this measure, to hear.) we have asked the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Their Lordship, av eminent political leader.—(Hear, in the other House what he anticipated as the tectionists and c ,.?nld find that there were Conservative pro- Government . emeeativ result of this measue, his simple answer has been, "we must was by no means e free-traders, and that this question a Part decline to prophecy ; our prophecy failed in 1842 ; we those who were int federejnnie, but that it was divided between commerce on the other n agriculture on the one side and will not run any risk of our reputation as prophets bapd it w and if you ask what will be the effect country that it should i mced in as most unfortunate for the hereafter ; two powerful contending partiea. its present position between of these measures we frankly tell you we don't know what He tells yon that he does not know the possi tobeen made en both sides of the qu Exaggerated statements had it will be. , estion result of this measure. As the old proverb judge deliberately upon it, ti gave , and it was necessarY ble or the probable . the Noble Duke for the abiTit the highest creait to says: Fiat experimeato snewpara vini.—(Cheers. ) Try it in Y he had displayed theglobe, some inartificial state of his speech that evening. IT —e (the im ai , • in some insignificant corner of once de is not Berry) would not follow him ;em be quT , of London- society. Let him try it, where a mis a ,ma udgement will not lead to sam e time, an opinion of his ow ,. at the irrecoverable, where an error of j that those individuals with whom he had usually menacts found formidable consequences. But why are you . to . try in this Eand of life, who one and all supported the country, arm broueht rblie midst of the mightiest empire in the world, s of the r m orld— from all its difficulties during a long crisis, had nhought it safe ours, highest and mightiest amongst t nation Pedient to change the system by which the country had heerer _ a nation which is in the most artificial state of society of any tofor e been governed upon this point. Change was no reproach-. country in the world—a nation in which the slightest derange- Hew many of their Lordships had voted for free trade on a went of the social scale, the slightest variation in the relation, Previous occasion?—(Great cheering from the Protectionist 'nay Produce the most extensive and the most irremediable Peers. ) Only six had voted; and would it be said that the mmeiscthief. And in this country, supported by such argu- Many converts to free trade in their Lordships' House were to younasreasl7 have heard from your 'Noble Friend to night, be reproached for their change in politics? The Noble Duke It may be lled ed upon to give your sanction to the measure. , had quoted Hansard, in answer to the speech of the Noble Earl in their ow y n er i:lo* well for the Anti-Corn-law League, engaged the President of the Board of Control, and had plumed himself that their own ; i r objects and pursuing their own interests. Not !Mon the great triumph which ha fancied he had made.—(Hear, —but it ma be v e e r r ests are consistent with the public weal "an) He (the Marquis of Londonderry) thought that he at least it is natural 1, 711 for such a body, if not legitimate, could, if he wished, make use of the same weapons, and show guage to different classes oti;eir agent s to h o l d different lan lies N o bl e F r i en d that he too had not always been and high wages —of a griedop,ersoris—to sp e ak o f c h eap b read c onsistent in his political conduct.—( Hear, hear.) landlords, and all that clap-tmarthstocracy—and of heartless S• uch changes as had been adopted by the present deceived—and then te turn round ht which a multitude are he ad of the Government had brought forward say, such will be the universal pros erit the ariciilturists and great statesmen. (Ironical cries of " Hear, hear.") i will induce that you must not for f mo y m w ent ieb thismeasure In the words of the Noble Duke, he could wish to ask how f 3 1 f a ll of prices—they will rise, and you will be shareholders apprehend the t r h e e Queen's Goyirnment to be carri, don if this measue did not the blessings about to be poured upon the country, lii in •ecsive the sanction of the Legislature The ?Noble Duke had w ill be cheap, but you will get a good price for ;our corn,. ead stated that Sir Robert Peel had lost the confidence of the But if this conduct be natural and legitimate in such a body coutory but h (th Mrouis of Londonderry) knew thi, that it is neither natural nor legitimate in the first Minister of the du ring ' e l e months murmur had been raised Crown, wielding the authority of the Crown —speakin g in the is , the laat twe_ve not a murm .3 , the peopl e of this QA's his political measures. name of the Crown 7 -exercising the influence which his high that character and station give him, to carry a measure „Noble Friend had finished his speech by stating he mi ne ,- • destruction of of such great and deep importance with a double „ peed that this measure would lead to the `fie church. Now he (the of Londonderry) could face. My Lords, you should be told by the Minister o r g e . Marquis d i' -• tl uch an occasion as this, what is the object, and what are aY in answer to that t hat Sir R. Peel ha (le tric y on s t e a m% 0 , , f the means by which that object is in to be effected:; arid C u n the 213th March, to the Whig party in the House o . gm with him on you have a right to see whether that object is in itself desirable, Non, that„llthouga they happened to agree and whether the means proposed to obtain it will effectuate it. Yoe have a right to know n om the first i‘linister rf the Crown the probable effects of such a measure-but in the silence of the Government, we have an argument against it. One of those used in the discussion of the measure, was the apprehended famine in Ireland, and the successful operation of the tariff in 1842; but this does not relieve me from a difficulty-one of these arguments may be valid, but valid they both cannot be, immediately contradictory as they are the one to the other. If the repeal of the corn-laws be calculated to relieve thefamine in Ireland, supposing the famine always to exist, it must be by bringing a large amount of corn into the markets at so low a price as to bring it within the reach of the starving population ; and on the other hand it is alleged that prices will rise on ac count of the increased demand. Let me examine these two questions of the famine, and the operation of the famine, and if on entering on this topic I am compelled to trouble your Lcrd ships at much greater length than I desire, I must pray your Lordships' indulgence, and on entering on this dry detail of statis tics, I cheerfully sod sacrifice all advantage I would de- - rive by alluding to more exciting, because more personal, topics. -( Hear, hear, and cheers.) I would beg your Lordships' atten tion in the first niece to the latter end of October, or the com mencement of November last. My Nr ble Friend has told you that the famine was cot the immediate cause of the introduc tion of this measure to your Lordships-but wit h all respect to to my Noble Friend, must say that if it had not been for the apprehension of scarcity in Ireland, your Lordships would never have been asked, in this session at least, to have passed this measure.-(Hear, hear.) When the Cabinet was called together at the close of October last, it was called together for the purpose of considering the state of Ireland. Papers were laid before us showing the failure of the potato crop, and reports of certain professors were placed before us, which in my opinion, te n d e d very much to aggravate the evil of which they complained. We were called on to consider what steps were to he taken for the relief of Ireland, for it was for their relief that we were convened, and we were invited to open the ports by an order in council. I was of opinion then, as I am of opinion now, that at the close of October the real state of the case was wholly unknown to the Government. In the first place, not above one-third of the potato crop had failed, and in the next, there never was a season in the history of Ireland, when, so far from there being a famine, there was so large a supply in the country of all descriptions of food for the consumption of the inhabitants. We were also told that foreign countries were taking steps to prevent the export of food, and it was stated to us that on the continent there was a scarcity in their crops. I certainly thought that that was an additional reason for not acceding to the invitation, and for this reason, because the effect of opening the ports would be to stimulate consumption, when it was necessary to discourage it by every means in our power-( Hear, hear)-and it would be likely to aggravate distress, if distress existed.-(Cheers.) But I en. treat of you to bear in mind the wide and manifest distinction between scarcity and famine, and great local and individual dis tress.-( Cheers.) I speak of the famine as an utterly baseless vision, which haunted the imagination of the Government.- ( Hear, hear, and cheers.) I speak in very different terms, and with very different feelings, of that amount of destitution and distress which naturally prevailed on the failure of the potato crop, but upon which the repeal of the corn-law can produce no more effect than if you were to pass a law that should reduce the price of pine apples.- ( Cheers.) Distress existed then not because corn was dear, for it might be said never to be dear ; it had never risen to any extraordinrry high pitch. Their state of suffering arises from a very different circumstance-it is this, because they are not as the labourers are in England, working for steady and permanent wages-it is because they have invested their labour and their capital in the cultivation of some small plot of ground for which they pay a large rent-the produce of that failed, and they had no labour to look to, and having no means of employment they have no prospect of buying food, and that is the state of the cottiers. Another class, and not an unimportant one, comprising about 5,000,000 or 6,000,000 of the people, namely, the small farmers and occupiers of land in Ireland, in what state were they? They find their potato crop has failed they find that it is unfit for individuals, and not a few of them have converted the diseased potatoes into food for cattle, and a very good kind of provender it has turned out to be. They had thus the means of relieving themselves from the loss of their potato crop ; but the corn had been very successful, and they had thus also a means of redress. And by the way of further relieving them, you propose to enact a law which has for its object a reduction in corn, upon which they rely ; there fore, when appealed to about the famine, I took the liberty of recording my opinion against the opening of the ports ; but at the same time so strongly did I feel the importance of unani mity, so strongly was I convinced of the evils consequent on the breaking up of any Government, I intimated my entire readiness to yield m y own op i n i on, an d consent to the suspen -1 sion of the corn-laws, provided only a susp ens i on was i nten d e d ( Cheers. ) But hen I was told that this temporary exi gency was to lead not. to a remedy commensurate with the evil, and that a suspension was to be made for the purpose of not re-enacting the corn-laws again, I felt I should not take a course consistent with my own feelings, as an honour able man, were I to support such a measure.-(Hear, hear. ) An adjournment of the question at all events took place, suffi cient information not being before us. In the close of No vember, when she Cabinet met again, I cordially concurred in the measures of the Government in the appointment of ad the heads of those departments of the Government which might have the best opportunities of furnishing employment, and of communicating with the Lord-Lieutenants of the diffe rent counties for the purpose of. distributing relief when it m to y p e r o ev n e i r i i a t i peroincstelsnftrotmo these g measures, th an el t th l at ga th ve e repeal of the corn-laws would be most unjustifi a bl e , and would he, in additi on , an i n j ury to the people of Ireland.-(Hear, hear.) The question, when the Cabinet met again, was nominally different; and it was with some surprise, and no little disappointment, I found myself alone in my opposition. I felt deeply and painfully the prospect of separation. I felt most painfully the weight of responsibility which I was about imposing upon myself. I am not ashamed to say that I asked for a period of eight and-forty hours to decide my mind.- . Hear, hear.) It was no sacrifice in me to abandon office. I had to examine, and I did rigidly examine my own mind whether I was influenced in the conduct 1 adopted by an anxious desire to escape the burdens of office.-( Hear, hear.) I tried to school myself into the belief, that under certain circumstances the interests of the country must require the adoption of such a measure, but I could not bring myself to such a humiliating conviction ; and most reluctantly, but without diffieulty, I felt myself constrained to abandon office, sup ported as I was by one of my own colleagues, whom, if I could name, his high position and character, in his subsequent adhesion to the Government would shield him from the slight est shadow of a doubt that he has not been actuated by the highest and the purest motives; but supported by one of my colleagues I was compelled to resign.-( Hear, hear, and cheers. Upon that the Government of Sir R. Peel was broken up. Your Lordships have the whole of the subse quent circumstances which have been already stated to you, and I feel that I owe a great apology to your Lordships for adverting to them at such length. Then we are compelled to investigate the corn-laws of 1842, and have your predic tions upon that event being falsified ? Have they not been fulfilled in a wonderful degree? The object of a corn-law I apprehend to be, to place this country in a state of independence as regards food with respect to foreign countries; and though this view may be scouted, it was not thought unworthy the attention of great and eminent men; and if your Lordships will forgive me, I would refer to a letter of Mr. Huskisson, who placed the question in a much more able point of view than lam able to do. He says, even in peace all dependence on foreign nations for supply is most dangerous.-(Heer, hear.) During the last three years, 741,000 quarters has been the average of our home consump tion, showing a very considerable increase. Has that been produced by measures of proscription or by the increase of prices? These are the greatest fallacies, but formed to lead us into errors in defending the Corn Bill. Statements are attributed to us which were never made by us. We are said to have asserted that it was the intention of the corn-law to guarantee the farmer a price of 555. per quarter. The inten tion of the corn-law was no such thing. The intention of the corn-law was, that if by legislation we would fix the average price of corn, that we should fix the price from 545. to 58s. The object of the corn-law is, that when the prices are above 58s. the consumer shall be protected by a large influx of foreign corn; and if the price is below Ms., that the producer shall be protected against any other competition than that which he met on equal terms those exposed to the same vicissitudes deriving the same ad vantage and subject to the same variations as himself. What, in point of fact, has been the result, as far as the consumer is concerned, of the operation of these corn-laws ? The average prices of the, last twenty years have been 575. per quarter, and the average prices of the last three years havebeen 595. 9d. per quarter. The pricee of the last year which they were told was a year of great s carc i ty, was 50s. 10d. per quarter. My Right lion. Friend said that he wished to keep the prices between 545. and bBs. if I were to refer to the average prices of last year, the result would be the statement of a price of from 50s. to 503. 103. But a return has been laid before the House of Commons, giving a more accurate measure of the car-law un der the sliding scale, and of the manner in which they operated to check any tendency to a rise or fluctuation in the price of corn. There is the return of the weekly prices of corn, from March, 1844, to March, 1846 ; and of those 104 weeks, this was the result :-The prices were before 545. and 58s. per quarter for no less than 48 weeks of that period ; the price was below 544. per quarter in 54 of those weeks; and the prices were above 58s. in 7 of phone weeks only; and the prices never rose in any week above 555. So far as the commercial interest was concerned, have we any right to say that this corn-law, in its operation, have deceived the expectations which have been formed upon it, although it is quite true that the price of corn has fallen considerably below what was expected by my Right lion. Friend? If we look at the total amount im ported, since the first great rush of two and a half millions of quarters since the introduction of this measure, they would find that it was two millions of quarters teat have come into the market since that time. There entered under 555. per quarter only 3115,000 quarters; and between 595. and 555. per quarter, the point at wnich we desire competition to bear, there en tered 1,445,000 quarters'; and there entered above 595. per quarter, only 69,000. That shows that the present law operates in the manner, and to the extent which was expected. He was sorry to trouble their Lordship-( Hear)-so long but he would take another point with regard to the fluctuation of prices in corn. Since the corn-laws passed the total amount of fluctua tion between 1844 and 1846 was only 58s. to 455. All the difference between any two succeeding weeks during those two years did not amount to a difference of 30 per cent. The greatest fluctuation between any two succeeding weeks, one week succeeding another, was only Is. 6d. ; and the greatest fluctuation between any two months in those years was 4s. and no more. I recollect when these corn-laws were introduced in 184 e, it was put forward as a matter of wonder at what they could do, when it was stated they had only produced a fluctua tion of 49 per cent, in one year, the smallest they had ever known. Let us look to the fluctuation of other countries, and sce what has taken place from December 1844 to Deeember 1845. During those two years the amount of fluctuation was in Dantric, 665. per cent. ; in Hamburg, 86s. per cent. ; in Rostock, 64'. per cent. ; and in Odessa, 84s. per cent. They were told that this was the effect of the sliding scale and the corn-laws. He would refer to the year 1842, when the Secretary of State for the Colonies stated that the fluctuation in New York was between SO and 40 per cent., the maximum at New York being 705.; at Phila delphia, 76s ; at 7`). , • Portsmouth, , and at New Norfolk 62 ; and that continued to the present time from be tween the years 18 41 and 18 4 whenwhile between 1844 and our fluctuations did not on the average exceed 30 perl ent. In answer, we are 1 e 45 they did not exceed -( per effect of the sliding-scale; told that these fluctuations were ther cent; but so far as I see, during the three years of the existence, of the law of this country, it had produced a great steadiness and t duced in 1842, ro cheapness of prices. This was the law and which now was about to be abandoned. If we wished to took see the history of these fluctuations, let us look at what place in Europe from the year 1792 to 1805, when we were dependent entirely on foreign corn. Let them listen to an ex tract from the work of Mr. Malthus, who states that, during the last century, that part of it in which the greatest importa tion took place, namely, from 1792 to 1805, there were no years in which a greater amount of fluctuation took place. In 1792 the price was 425. per quarter, in 1796 it was 775. per quarter, in 1801 it was 118 s. per quarter, and in 1803 it was down to 665. per quarter ; so that between 1792 and 1801 the price of corn was trebled; and from 1798 to 1803 the price arose from 50s. to 118 s. per quarter, and fell again to 565. This was the period of that century in which this country was most dependent on a foreign supply of corn. ( Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) I will now mit you to look at some other articles of consumption. The fluctuations of corn have been taken and attributed to the :eliding scale ; look at the price of the potato THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MAY 28, 1846. —there was free trade in that article of consumption, there was I no res t r i c ti on on i ts importalon, and yet the price varied from 150 to 100 in the c ourse o f a s i ng l e year. L e t us take th e. price of upland co tt on i n Li verpool dur i ng th e years 1836 and 1837—it was no sliding scale that then regulated the supply —in January, 1836, it was 81d. p M er lb. ; December, bid. per H lb. ;in Nov em b er , i t was id. per lb. ;in arch it was 10i!l. ; in May it was 5- a '-d. per lb. ;in December it was Bid. again ; and in April it was down to s,td. again. Is there any fluctuations to be compa re d with those in the prices of this article, of which we had a regu l ar and systematic supp ly? With re gard to anoth er most i mpertant branch of operation in this country, their Lordships would excuse him if ha adverted to one particular point—the supply in a period of the greatest exigency. Y ou w ill reca l l to your Lordships' recollection what was the state of th e different countries of Europe at the . f be ginning of the present year. There were a scarcity, and measures were taken for their own protection. represent and security ; and that I may not be supposed Lord of the facts, I will read it from the statement of the First fo Septem ber, 9iprehensionso Treasury. It stated that in Belgium, on the 24th o country g imports of corn. The manufacturing portion of t law, and had materially increased since the operation of this description' the Chamber prohibited the exports, and encouraged 1 the even trades and professions, of every years.f th It is stated that it will defraud the trade and commerce o country; but, belonging as I do to a manufacturing county had nearly doubled their profits of late myself, and anxious as am to do whatever is calculated to advance the prosperity or to add to the comforts of the manu facturing classes of the country, I cannot think that the aban- , donment of the present system will be calculated to meet those ends, but rather that it will be productive of great and serious evil.—( Hear, hear.) What has hitherto been the effect of the incautious development of our productive powers? We have found prosperity succeeded by a glut in the market, ad versity follow upon a full demand. Do nothing to check the prosperity of the country, or that is really calculated to serve the interests of the manufacturing classes, but do not lead them be an unwise system of legislation to depend for their existence onlan unwholesome system—(Hear, hear)—in which, I be lieve, the interests of these classes themselves most seriously involved. But if it is desirable to alter the present system for the sake of the commercial interests of the country, it is not clear to my mind that the repeal of the corn-laws will have the tendency of increasing the manufacturing industry of the country. If there is little or no variation in price, i f t h ere i s to b e no great reductio n in the price of corn, then no great increase in the consumption of the article can take place, and the only argument that remains is, the transfer will take place from the home grower to the foreign corn raiser—substituting pne class of corn growers for another. If her Majesty's Govern ment are to be believed on the present question, the price of corn will rise instead of fall. I must say, if you believe that, then will you believe as great a fallacy as was ever palmed on the credulity of any body of men. Who ever heard of in creased competition raising th e pr i ce of an art i c l e . R eason was against it, and not only reason, but faets were against it. True it is the reduction of a halfpenny a pound in the duty on wool did not check eompetition in that trade. The demand for the article went on increasing, and the supply was not able to keep pace with it. What took place in 1825, when Mr. Huskisson reduced the duty on wool ? In 1824 the duty im posed on that article was 6d., and he reduced it to Id. in 1825. While the price of wool in 1825, before the alteration, was Is. 4d. a lb., in 1830, just five years after the alteration was made, the price was 10d., showing a reduction of exactly the whole duty taken off---(Hear, hear.) Then the silk trade has been referred to. While the duty has been reduced on manu factured silks, it must be admitted that the duty on the raw silks imported has also been taken off, so that the alteration made in this particular branch of industry is not to be taken as a fair indication of the results of the tariff. While the two al terations I have referred to have somewhat balanced them selves, the various branches of the silk trade still had a pro tective duty on it, averaging about thirty per cent.—(Hear, hear.) Take next the case of timber. The price of Baltic timber has not fallen in proportion to the reduction of the duty, I admit, but Canada timber has. But it is not to that alone we must look. What compensation has been given for the fall in the price of timber at home ? What is the price of British timber now? Why the fifty cubic feet of timber that was 103 s. before the passing of the tariff, has been since 91s. 3d., and last year it fell as low as 86s. Bd.—( Hear, hear.) I see the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests in his place, and if there is any doubts in the fall in the price of Bri tish timber, he can speak to its correctness, for in a sale of timber last October, in the Forest of Dean, all that was offered was but 41. 10s. a load, instead of 61. 10s. Viscount CANNING—It was so. Lord STANLEY—That does not alter the effect of the price. I will not enter into the price of butcher's -meat, as your Lcrdships are all aware of the causes that have led to the in crease in the price of that article ; but I calculate this year that the number of sheep imported has been 7,01;0. Now, in a single market—tbat of Smithfield—the supply of sheep this year, as compared with last, has been 16,00) to 27000. There can be no doubt that if this law is abrogated there will be a considerable reduction in the price of corn. But before leaving the tariff there is one point to which I will refer, as we have been told a great deal of the effect it has produced on British shipping. Great stress has been laid on the fact that the tariff has in creased in a large degree our commercial activity. Now, I have got a table of the tonnage and number of ships empl , yed in 1842 as compared with 1845 ; and bow does it stand ? The tonnage, in 1842, was 3,619,000, and the increase in 1845 was 17,000 tons. If I go back to 1833 I find an annual increase in the tonnage for each year, with the exception of one, and the total amount is 985,000, or, dividing it into biannual periods, of 197,000 tons each period. This was the increase from 1833 to 1845, while all the increase since the passing of the tariff is but 17,000 tons. —( Hear, hear.) Why, in one branch of our s fr h o i p ig t n he t t a l r ie i fi r e a has lt b g. et h e e e n a la r, and thisrg e increase r branch i a sthanhad has e no connexion rsul ed with the tariff, but has arisen entirely from agriculture. The trade to which I referred is the guano trade, a trade which only originated in 1841. In 1843 it was 4,560 tons, and employed 202 seamen. In 1845 it amounted to 219,000 tons, and employed no less a number than 11,434 seamen. Thus from 1843 to 1845 the increase in the guano trade has been upwards of 200,000 tons to set against the 17,000 tons increase from the tariff.-- (Loud cheers.) I admit that the fall in the price of corn will not be equal in all eases to the reduction in the amount of the duty, but it will be so to a very great extent, and I reason from the experience of the present tariff. I find when the price of corn has been 555. a quarter large importations of fo reign corn have taken place. This has been when the duty was 15s. Therefere we may anticipate, if we take off the duty there will be a large portion immediately brought into nur mar kets at4os. I have received a letter this morning from one of the largest corn-dealers in England, who says that be hols two car goes of red wheat imported fromtthe Danube, which he bought free on board at 145., and the freight to Liverpool was 9s. tjd.; and the party in question had no doubt that he should at the end of the three years be able to supply 5,000,000 of quarters of foreign wheat at an average price at from 365. to 40s. per quarter. If we go back to 1845, we will find we then im ported 140,000 quarters at 455. a quarter, which paid 20s. duty, thus sh eav i ng t h at it could be imported a price of 255. or 2tis. a quarter. The reduction may not be so great as this, still that will not reverse my objection to the measure, a., I have no doubt corn may be supplied in such quantities, and at such prices as will press most severely on the English producers, who will be obliged to compete with them. I have no doubt also that capital from this country to foreign countries will facilitate the raising of supplies, and thus operate in a very injurious manner, on all those interested in the cultivation of the soil at home. It is not the least of my objections to this measure that it en courages the foreign grower, ing degree the land at are tole that if the pri ce o f corn falls then the manufacturer can home w o h t i o l e f i e t o t h t v o a w t s i i o n a B e o u r t r e n s o p w o nwd we an outlet for his manufactures, because he can sell so much more cheaply. Well, he sells them so much more cheaply ! How is this effected ? Why, if effected at all, it is;effected by a reduction of wages._( Hear, hear.) Now, my Lords, I thought that that w as a d octri n e foreign to the Anti-Cern law League. I thought th at the price of corn had nothing to do with the rate of wages, yet somehow or other the anticipa tion is that the manufacturers will be enabled to produce their goods more cheaply. I cannot understand how they can do so except by paying their labourers lower wages. Now, my Lords, I do not mean to say that in the manufacturing or agri cultural districts the rates of maees exactly follow the price of cern. I say that wages do not'always follow the fluctuations in the price of corn, because they were considerably regulated by the proportion existing between demand and supply. I say that although wages do net exactly follow all the fluctuations in the price of wheat, yet those prices must be steady, whether high or low, for if the markets oscillate the labourer, not ac. customed to economise his wages when wheat is low, will be correspondingly depressed when the price is increased. It then surely becomes the duty of your Lordships to balance well the advantages and disadvantages of this measure to the la bourer before you fully pass it into a law. Let your Lord ships suppose a man with a wife and family of three childen in a manufacturing district —suppose for a moment that that fa mily, on a low calculation, consumes five quarters of corn in the year--suppose also a fall of 10s. per quarter in the price of wheat—and suppose that in consequence of that reduction in the price of grain, the wages of one member of that famil: is reduced one shilling per week, and that, I presume, is the very lowest estimate we can take. The one shilling thus re tained from that family more than counterbalances the advan tages of the reduction in the consumption of five quarters per year. But we were also told that if the price of wheat should tall, we shall_ have a highly increased trade with foreign coun tries. We are led to believe that Russia and Prussia, and the United States, do not take our manufactures because we do not take their produce in return. Now there never was an argument less founded upon fact than this. It is a fact, that with regard to all the countries from which we draw our corn at the present moment, our imports largely predominate over our exports, and we consequently allow them much greater ad vantages than they give in return to us. Here is the trade of the United States, for example, and your Lordships may be surprised to learn that the amount of value of cotton alone imported into this country, in one year, greatly exceeds the value 01 the whole exports put together that we sent in the same period to the United States. In the five last years. the exports to the United States had been to the extent of 7,500,0001. Yet, in the eighteen'years preceding, the amount had been 7,500,0001. Your importation of cotton alone, in the last five years, is not a less sum (assuming that calculating the price at 4d. per lb. ) than 7,817,C90/. Now we take four-fifths of our moan from trvheataelolnUev,nited States, and what is the advantage that we shall receive from the United States in return? I believe that you will receive no advantage of do t l h la a e l r u s ib e n . United States. from the passing of this measure. I find that in the last six years an importation into the United States had been made of 253,000,000 dollars, while their exportation to this the b o T t r t e h a e s r o o ry sh u o p o o l n d the past six years,. favouroo9 balance country of had ioi reached ,oo, o o leaving There has a it t Here e is 25 This," l t ca h en c te c .h o eia m nds m daoye e uds n r, t to make o f nso ttheahkee nominal Secretaryu )e ateh heof n and, with the exception of 1839, in e ac h Odoll 3 a s rs 4 fn 0, of the last years. Our export trade is annually increasin while our imports remain the same, and any modification made ' in the r corn-laws of Great Britain, which will admit our bread-stuEs on reasonable terms"—he does not calculate on this very liberal' measure—" will give an immense impulse to the export trade.' " On the other hand," says the Secretary for the Treasury, "every improvement and increase mad e i n our manufactures establishes our ability to supply the hom e d emand both in the and cotton and woollen manufactures, tends to reduce our mpor tation from other countries." You are to ld here that as soon can dispense with your ass i stance they will do so. itahs regard to Russia and Prussia, the case was the same. In Russia, in the year 1838, Mr. M'Gregor stated that their total exportations amounted to above 11,00,000, while their average importations were only 6,177 000 showing a balanc e o f some 5,000,009 in their favour. And in Prussia the exportations amounted to 3,138,000, whilezr the importations reached only 505,0 00. The duties charged upon our manufactures by the United State were almost pro hibitory—they ranged from 45 up to 150 ; and in the article of glass they reached 243 per cent. The tariffs of Russia and Prussia are equally prohibitory. Mr. M.Gregor states that the Russian duties are prohibitory, because the Government there wished to discountenance the importation of any article that can be drawn by the serfs from the mines or forests. Ac cordingly in the whole of Russia your manufactures are sub jected to an average duty of 65 per cent., while in Prussia you are charged from 50 to 130 per cent. B ut the argument is boldly put forward that our duties are equally prohibitory, because we impose 25 per cent. on the article of corn. It is pretended that this duty prevents our taking the go a d s o f o th er countries, although these count ri es impose no less than five fold on the goods received from us. Dr. Bowring, who was sent out by a Noble Lord lately in office, held out expectations that $ modification of the timber duties would be beneficial to the country. They had now taken off some of those timber duties ; they had taken off some of the duties on cotton, and he should like to know whether the exports to Prussia had increased, as it was expected they had not? (The Noble Lord then read several statistical details in corroboration of his argument.) Do we find that our shipping trade has been improved ? No. Merchants, it is said, will not enter into the corn trade, because it is a speculative trade, but all trades are speculative, for all depend upon the seasons. and the markets' of the country; yet it is said in this year that it is hazardous to engage in any commercial speculation. The Baltic trade in 1837 employed 612 British ships against 560 foreign. In 1845 the Baltic trade employed 609 British ships against 1,845 foreign. In 1839 the Baltic trade em ployed 148,000 British tons against 147,000 tons foreign. In 1839 the Baltic trade employed 6,016 British seamen against 6,35 2 foreign. I n 1 845, the Baltic trade employed 5,375 British seamen against 17,169.—( Hear, hear.) Well, I have done with the foreign trade, I have done with our foreign prospects. I w ill admit to your Lordships, that a large ex portation will pro d uce a large increase in the imports, but only for a time, during whichhnyeou)u ff up t ra d e t o an extraor di nary When state of pro s p er i ty. th a t fails, when di s t ress an d diffi culty come s , t h e returns willfall off, and I rather think my Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Department, in the event a war taing place with th e U n i ted States, will find o , f that instead of our fifths, our country will only be indebted to the United Stat es f or a small portion, i n d ee d, of our supplies When war comes , then the markets upon which you have relied are closed ag • you, while, in the m ean ti me you have destroyed your against markets ; and when you have destroyed your home market, and the foreign market fails you, then comes the period of oppres sion and bitter suffering amongst your manufacturers—of bitter expressions of feeling against those who are now deluding their unhappy dupes with a prospect of increased wages and cheap bread.—(Cheers.) Do not let your Lordships, do not let the country undervalue the importance of this home market.—(Hear, hear.) The estimates and statements I see put forward with respect to it are most ridiculous. If we are to believe these statements, the whole consumption of the home-market in cotton goods amounts only to 1 / 4 of the entire produce, and that amount will give you somewhere about 4s. per head to every one of the population. Your Lordships will be the best able to judge of the accuracy of that statement when I toll you, that in the year 1840 the average consumption of cotton goods by the inhabitants of the West Indies was not 45., but li. 6s. per head. Now, can you be lieve,: if the West Indian negro consumes 1/. 6s. worth of cotton goods, that the consumption of this country is only 4s. per head ?—(Cheers. ) No, I do not. I feel that the home market in cotton stands to the foreign market in the proportion of at least 14 to 17. In the year 1820 we exported 248,000 tons of cotton goods ; in 1844 the quantity was increased four fold, or 146 millions. In 1803 Mr. Huskisson estimated the value of the cotton goads consumed in England at 32 millions sterling. I find that the quantity entered for home con sumption was 73 millions in 1820 ; it has since increased to 280 millions of lbs. of worked up cotton goods, employing British labour and bought by the British con sumer. In 1844, the home consumption had increased four fold, not only in cotton, but in every other articles of British produce, such as cotton-wool, linen, silk-yarn, hardware, leather, cabinet-ware, and paper. These articles in the home market produced 148,340,0634, while the whole value for for eign and home consumption was 280,200,0001. And this is the market you are about to abandon—these are the customers ycu are about to sacrifice in your blind zeal to promote the export trade. Then lam told a reduction in the price of con increases the consumption of other articles ; but, my Lords, you must remember that cheapness and dearness are relative terms, and not posite. Wheat may be cheaper in Poland than in England, but the population in England, from peculiar cir cumstances, find their food cheaper than the people of P o l an d. Now, my L ords, I have gone over a great part of this question. I do not know how I have done it, but 1 must not leave the details of the question without knowing where the loss must fall. It will fall moat assuredly upon the majority of this country. We have heard of the danger and the difficulty of administering the affairs of Government, without reconciling the conflicting claims of an ancient monarchy. a proud aristocracy, and a reformed House of Commons. Now, my Lords, I admit, that if you legislate for the interest of one class against the interest of another—that is to say, if you materially alter the social relation of different easses of the community, it is not in flicting a private injury, but a publlc wrong. 't here may, however, be sane difficulty in keeping a balance in a reformed House of Com mons, but, my Lords, the difficulty will not be met, if for the proud you substitute a pauper and a dependent aristocracy. If you break down an ancient aristocracy, you demolish the firmest breakwater that can possibly be established between a monarchy and a repub licanism.—(Hear, hear.) When I speak of an aristocracy, Ido not speak exclusively or mainly of the body I am now addressing—l speak of men, not ennobled in rank, many of them undistinguished in life, but who, with their ancestors before them, from generation to generation, have had centred in them or in their cifeles a sort of prestige, conducting ably the business of their respective houses, influencing the opinions of their respective neighbourhoods, and exercising over their tenantry, who have a hereditary claim upon their constituents, a useful and beneficial control. My Lords, these are the aristocracy of this country. Reduce these men and you inflict an irretrievable and irreparable injury upon this country.—(Hear, hear.) You lower them in the scale of society. God forbid, my Lords, that I should grieve that the suc cessful manufacturer, or that the princely merchant, should take his place among the landed aristocracy of this country.—(Hear, hear.) Such infusions add fresh vigour and fresh power to that class of the community.—(Hear, hear.) But depend upon it If you sweep that class away all at once, and all the old associations with which their names, their histories, and the associations which they have acquired to their families, and if you substitute a new body of capitalists, and go amongst the tenantry where no associations ere connected with their name, the expenditure will be a severe one—their moral in fluence in society is irretrievably lost to the country.—(Cheers.) Bet, my Lords, I say I should not be satisfied if I were to believe that the loss would mainly fall upon the landed proprietors of this country ; but I tun satisfied, my Lords, there never was so great a delusion as this. Why, the reduction of 10s. upon every quarter of wheat is a reduction of 40s per acre of laud in this country, and that will be accompanied by a corresponding reduction in the price of articles of produce in this country. My Lards, my Noble Friend on the cross benches has ably argued this question, and I will not pre tend to follow him. He has fully shown what will be the effect not merely upon the landlords, but the tenant-farmers of this country. (Hear, hear.) And the first step that these tenant-farmers will take to relieve themselves will be to suspend all improvement of their land.—(Hear, hear)--will be to discharge their labourers— (Hear, hear)—will be to reduce wages—(Hear, hear)—will be to pour:those unhappy labourers into the manufacturing districts, and increase the competition there—(neer, hear)—for the lowest class of employment in manufacturing labour. They will there go and live in wretchedness, and pine away in the manufacturing towns, and lower the wages of the manufacturing as of the agricultural artificer.—(Hea • hear.) Why, my Lords, what will be the conse quence to the landed proprietors of this country? Assuming even the case, that one of your Lordships is free from incumbrances, although I do not know that that is the fact—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—but I will assume it to be so. But what is the first thing that he does? Why he dismisses a certain portion of his establish ment, which is a sacrifice of every comfort to him, he thus turns upon the labour market a great number of fresh competitors.— (Ilear, hear.) And, my Lords, whatever else may be said against the landed proprietors of this country, 1 do not think this, at least, can be la'd to their charge, that they are a class of men who accu mulate wealth, but do not spend their incomes, for I think they spend them an fast as they receive them.—(Hear, and laughter.) Well then they reduced the number of the employed, and now mind my Lords what we are told ? Why we are told " True, but you make no loss to yourselves —you have only to adopt the real prin ciples of free trade ?—(Laughter.) Well, my Lords, what are these real principles of free-trade.—(Hear, hear.) They are to dismiss " every useless and unprofitable hand. They are to employ no man beyond what is absolutely required to make profit." They are to have no consideration for tenants who may have been their de pendants for the last fifty years—(Hear, hear) —for they say " Oh it is more profitable to have one large than three small farms ; poor tenants have not capital, tarn them off—(Hear, hear)—let them go and starve.—(Hear, hear.) There are above 600,000 email farmers —at least that was about the number in 1844. But your Lordships must not stop at that—those are but as many drops in the ocean— (Hear, hear)—and you must drive them away one and all in corn 'silence with the wishes of the Anti-Corn-law League. The law im poses, however, the exclusive burden on the landowners of the coun try of maintaining all the poor manufacturers as well as agricultural labourers. But, my Lords, I have too good an opinion of the land lords to think that they would act upon the principle recommended ; by the free-traders. I believe that they would continue to give as much employment as they could. I believe that they know that they have to deal, not with stocks and stones, but with men—with men filled with the same feeling, with the same attachment, and with the same affection as themselves; and I do not believe that, were the pressure of the most extreme description, the landlords of England as a body will adopt doctrines of political economy prescribed by the advocates of free trade.—(Hear, hear.) But, my Lords, if this system is to be adopted in England, if you venture to recommend this system in England, will you dare to advise that it should be put into execution in Ireland ?—(Cheers.) In Ireland, my Lords, the bulk of the population are small farmers, whose farms vary fram twelve to thirteen acres at the largest ; they have little capital and very little skill. They exhaust the land, I admit ; they do not pay you, admit, but by the application of more skill and more capital you might extract more from the land. Carry into effect in Ireland your doctrines of political economy. The landlords are to suffer, but they may recover themselves; the clearrnce system was denounced as at the root of half the riots and half the bloodshed in Ireland, but the doctrine of free trade will require yon to push forward the clearance system. You may make much more money, you may preserve yourself from all loss, turn off the farmers of Ireland, turn off the tenants, give the lands to the capitalists, and the rest of the population sent off to die of starvation. He would be a bold Minister who would advise the experiment. He would be a bold as well as a hard man who would act upon it. — (Cries of " Hear, hear.") And, my Lords, to tell me the measure, this repeal of the corn-laws, is brought forward as a measure to relieve Ireland, of all countries.—(Loud cheers.) Yon may be told that it is for the relief of England, and that it is for the benefit of herpopnlatian. I doubt whether it may be so in the long run, but Ireland is exclusively an agricultural exporting country ; and to tell us that you are to benefit Ireland by reducing the value of their ex ports, by which alone she can obtain the comforts of life and the ar ticles of manufactures:which she receives from you ; and that you are to benefit Ireland by reducing the value of her exports to the value of a million and a half, or to two millions a year, is a proposition ' which I should venture to put alongside that increased com petition tendslto inrease the price of our article,—(Hear.) Lastly, (and I am quite sure that your Lordships will be very glad to hear that I am coming to a conclusion), I wish to speak of one branch of the question, which is of the utmost importance, and particularly so to me, from the situation which I had the honour to hold.—(Hear, hear.) I mean the effect which is to be produced by the repeal of the corn-laws, and the carrying out of the principle of tree trade, and the doctrine of the removal of protection upon your colonies.--(Bear, hear.) Now, my Lords, your foreign trade takes a very large amount of foreign shipping, and a very small amount of British. I beg to call your Lordships' attention in the first place, to the fact which ap pears in the returns of the House of Commons in 1845, namely, that the tonnage of shipping in the colonies, was 1,273,395; whilst against that there was entered not one single ton of foreign. Your colonial trade, therefore, be it what it will, is exclusively carried on by British. You employ British seamen. My Lords, I will not enter upon the extent of that trade. It is certain that the number of exports to your colonies amounted in 1844 to 1,427,0001. You inviie them to trade with other nations—you tell them that they may quit the country, and the moment they quit the shores 01 England and land in a British colony, you tell them, you are no more to us than the Dutchman, the German, or the American. Trade where you please; you are entitled to no favour from us. Wt give you 1,0 protection ; we don't seek to impede your trade With other countries; you are just as much connected with them as with us. I have heard it put forward that thil measure will benefit the Australian colonies. I cannot exactly see how this can be done by this measure. The present duty on Australian corn is ss. a quarter, and they have the advantage of buying or selling their corn in pro tected markets, which you take away from them. Then with refer ence to Canals, you passed a Bill last year on the faith of which the Canadians imposed a duty of 3s. a quarter on American corn. Yor encouraged her to commence great works, and you lent her money to do them with, and you are now going to undo all that you hays done ; you are going to destroy the great communication of the St. , Lawrence, and make New York, instead of Montreal and Quebec, the channels of your trade, and it has been the policy of the Urtitefl States to pass a Bill encouraging the trade In this direction. I hope this will open your Lordships' eyes as to the dangerous policy you are pursuing in attempting to pass this measure. I hope your Lordships have read the dispatch of the Governor- General of Canada upon this subject. The Noble Lord then pro• ceeded to read extracts from the dispatch of Lord Metcalfe the Go vernor •General of Canada, which went to show the necessity 0 , continuing protection to the trade of Canada, in order to enable them to flrhil their engagements with this country. Mr. Gregg showed that our trade had declined in the various markets of the world—that the cutlery of Sheffield was beaten by that of Alsace— that the hosiery of Saxony was 25 per cent, cheaper than that et Leicester, and that the stocking frames the re h a d been diminished from 4,590 to 250, and that the only way we could hope to compete w ith foreign nations would be by cheapening food, in order to cheaper. wages. That was the language of Mr. Gregg, and that was the d angerou s experiment they were about to try. Why one would think the force of "folly can no further go."—(A laugh.) I trust your Lordships will not be led away by these feelings. lam fully seu sible of the great length, and:of the feebleness with which I have discharged my duties, but I hope that I have the credit of keepint close to the question—(Cheers) —and that no observation which l have made was calculated to wound the feelings of any person, but before I sit down I must be permitted to say a few words to you' Lordships, who, in your hearts, go with us in the argument, and dis approve of the measure at which you are alarmed, yet nevertheless are prepared to give it your sanction, I can conceive many motives which would influence highly honourable men. There may be those who fear the authority of the Commons ; there were others influenced by the opinions of the Commons, but I ask you how are you to col lect the opinion of the Commons? Where is it to be found—is it to be found in 1842, 1843, or 1844?—(Hear, hear.) Why, I find that in 1843 this measure was rejected by a majority of 113; at anothez time by 165 ; again by 114 ; in 1843 by 250 ; In 1844 by 209 ; June, 1845, by 132.—(Loud cheers.) And I find that now a majority of 98, composed of the same men who then rejected, have assented to the measure. There were others who disapprove of the measure, yet from personal feelings to the minister, supported it. I can sym pathise with those feelings, but I cannot assent to the justice of then, —(Hear, hear.) The sacrifice would be ineffective, it would be made in vain ; there never was a Government which could maintain itself, when it existed on the sufferance of its opponents, with the disguised support of ashamed supporters. There might be those who hoped that it might put an end to agitation ; when was organised agitation put down by concession extorted? The writer goes on to say that they must have something more than free trade when the corn discussion has taken place. An enlightened nation would ask, what was the benefit of a continued system of taxation levied on the trade o the country? They would soon ask if it would not be better to abolish the custom-house system, and to have no excise. To have boards placed at certain places, where customs were formerly Lvied, declaring that all nations might land their produce there. That the operation of the principle of free trade would be extended to everything. He says, that the friends of free trade must remember that they had yet got a House of Lords—the stronghold of the aris tocracy—who were struggling for something more. Hence the main tenance of the present commercial policy, after the settlement of the free-trade question. The people would have more time to act for the great principles of universal suffrage. If it was good for com merce to be free, it was good for man to be free.—(A laugh.) / beg the attention of the Right Rev. Bench to what follows. The writer stated that if it was good to inculcate free-trade in commerce, why should they not have free-trade in religion?—(Laughter.) Why should they continue under such a system of ecclesiastical despotism as the one then prevalent in the country? He believed that the time was not far distant when the Catholics would ask why should tht church of Christ be attributed only to one sect ? Freedom of re ligion would be one of the laws of the country. Such are the opinions of many of the advocates of free trade. I cannot conceive any more unfit sentiment for a good man than the unworthy fear of being suspected of a dishonouratle motive. De not, therefore, be carried away by the consideration that your efforts may be attri buted to wrong motives. Do not be thrown back on this question by the consideration or the fear that your endeavours may be ascribed to a personal interest. You are trustees of far more than the commercial utility of this question. You are the trustees for the interests of the people —you are trustees for the constitution of this country. My Lords, you are each and all of you concerned in la bouring for the good of the people. The people have taken their opin ions from you —your neighbours have taken the colours of your opin tescfcocrutrlalegebdentheftenit oifathtehe I opin ion, and have looked up to you with respect and deference. You have after voting for the destruction of all protection, and ° country.o n that can t y h o e u p present entamongst commercial . system a result to those who have showur hours such which you charge the Government. Hyatt consent to this measure abrogating the constitution of you,.lle Be prepared to be looked upon as to intimidation, and be prepared to be You will have given in of the constitution--as the registers a o r t ridered a subordinate part hear.) What Is the the decrees of the House of of the formation of Commons.—(Hear, that House as a part of the constitution ? objectt st and salutary check and obstacle against rash aotidnipncesoen have alwasisivantiiteldted asiwstetieslecgmise lation. It was to protect the people against thecon :auences of their expression o' own imprudence. It was not to resist the continued deliberate public opinion, for your Lordships to the expression of such a feeling of enlightend public op yours to protect the pe o pl e aga i nst their own caprice and the treachery of those whom they have chosen as leaders.—(Hear, hear.) If you deliberate on an impartial principle—though you may not be successful, yet you will not be quite put down. Yon may fail in saving the people from the threatened evil, but you will have the approbation of your friends, and the respect of your opponents. Yon will give time for the intelligence of the nation to act, and sheuld you happily be successful in bringing the people back to the wiser counsels ofdeliberate wisdom, you will have the satisfaction of having discharged the duties imposed on you. You will have performed your duties, unalarmed by power, and unintimidated by clamour. You will have saved the country from a serious and hazardous experiment, and your reward will be the consciousness of having done your duty ; and you will have another reward arising from the grateful admiration of a people, who will exclaim with thankfulnees, " Thank God we have got a House of Lords.—(Loud cheering.) Lord BROUGHAM said, that he was quite aware it was an un usually late hour of the night. —(Cries of " Adjourn, adjourn.") He should certainly take the sense of the House upon the question of tile adjournment. They had heard a speech of singular ability de livered that evening. —(Cries of " Order, order," and "Adjourn.") He could not go on with this confusion, for it was absolutely neces sary that in order to make others hear him he should hear himself. Amongst many great advantages which his Hon. Friend enjoyed over him—advantages which he would not stop to enumerate, he had an advantage which outweighed all the others together, he had obtained an influence over a large portion of their Lordships in a long speech he had delivered. It was a long speech, and yet he (Lord Brougham) did not feel if to be long, but the clock had shown it to be long. What compelled him to arise and to address their Lordships at 'that late hoar of the night was the great advantage that his friend enjoyed over him. He should not address himself to those who agreed with him in opinion, but rather to those who differed from him, and therefore he entreated their indulgence. He would go to the origin of the present law.—(Some manifestations of noise being made by several parties at the bar of the House, the Noble Lord turned round and addressing them), said, if any of the Noble Lords who had so patiently listened to the Noble Lord who had j might ust sat dow n , were not disposed to hear him, they • go elsewhere and taste those enjoyments which he had no doubt they had left when they came there ; he was persuaded that the House would go on per fectly well without them. For the observations he was about to address to the Reuse, he begged the attention of the Noble Lord. He (Lord Brougham) would proceed at once to the origin of the present measure. It was said to have arisen from the :pressure:of famine in certain districts in Ireland. He doubted the fact of any general famine in Ireland, though he had heard it so stated, but that there was a great scarcity in sonle districts could not be denied. But, says the Noble Lord, this was no reason why they should do away with protection or open up the ports. But he denied the fact that such grounds should weigh in the present matter, and he was ready to abide by the facts in reference to the origin of the present measure. The Noble Lord said, it was the deceased potatces that led to the introduction of the measure, but he (Lord Brougham) said, it was perfectly immaterial what was its origin. He might say, that in bringing in the bill Sir Robert Peel performed a reels, impindent, and inexpedient act; that he ought net to have brought it in in the present year ; and yet, however rash, imprudent, and inexpedient the introduction of the measure may have been, he (Lord Brougham) said, if the measure was a sound one, if its merits were good, it ought to have their support.—(Hear, hear.) He spoke thus to guard himself from the supposition that he supported the measure on any extraneous or accidental ground, or that he thought there was any real or substantial ones for supporting the measures. But in respect of the rash, extraneous, and imprudent character of the measure, what was the real cause? A vast number of persons were reduced to great distress on account of the failure of the potatoe crops; not only were potatoes bad, but the people had no other means of paying for food. Were their Lordships aware of what has happened since the introduction of the measure, but which the Noble Lord had omitted to mention? The Noble Lord, however, was surelyaware that one part of the Government measure respecting corn had been inserted in the Customs' tariff, and by that arrangement maize had been Imported as it the Corn Bill was passed. This did not meet the evil of the diseased potatoe crop. The poor peasants who had lost their usual supply of food, had thus been supported by the importation. The Noble Lord admitted that he would have been perfectly ready to open the ports to let in oats duty free, but had that been done, would not the objection, as had been stated to-night, that the price would be reduced, thus affecting the employment of the peasant, of which he complained so much. But the most successful part of the Noble Lord's speech was that in which he said that IC they carried the present Bill, it would, while professing to supply oats at a cheap rate to the peasantry, by competition, so reduce the value of their own produce, that they would not have the means of purchasing these cheapened foreign productions, and thus the object of the measure would be defeated. But has the Noble Lord forgot his own Canada Bill which he proposed two years ago, add which he (Lord Brougham) supported at the time. That was a free-trade Bill—a corn-law-repealing Bill—which reduced the duty to 3s. per quarter, and allowed the whole of the United States of America to take their grain into Canada, through which It was brought into England, where protection still existed, and which was represented to be so necessary to the welfere of the landed interest. Thus for the payment of a small duty, without the operation of a sliding scale, were they allowed to import corns from the Canadas. Ife did not charge inconsistency to the Noble Lord, as they were all apt to profit by experience, but he brought forward this to show that the arguments for the Canada Bill was applicable to the present measure. On the proposal of that Bill, they were told of the rapid increase of the population of every day, adding from 300,000 to 400,000 to the body of consumers, and that if the measure was not passed, they could not hope to supply with food this increasing population. The same argu ments applied to the corn-laws at all times, and therefore at all times he and those with whom he acted had advocated this repeal. He wished he could take the same view of the question as the Noble Lord had done, as to the reduction that would take place, The Noble Duke on the cross benches had asked his Noble Friend who introduced this masa, what the effect of the corn-laws would be. Looking to the produce of the country, he should have thought it the most difficult question to answer that could have been propounded. Why, how could his Noble Friend tell what the demand would be for an article at the expiration of three years ? It would famish no conclusion to arrive at to say that wheat was now selling 'in Dantzic at 338. a quarter, that 3s. would probably be charged for freight, and 2s. for insurance, and that therefore it could afford to be sold in the London markets at 40s. the quarter. That was not the question, the question was what effect the repeal of this law would have upon the Dantzic market? But, i said his Noble Friend opposite, a great deal of English land would ' be thrown out of cultivation, while a proportionate quantity would be cultivated in Hungary and other countries, and all this was to be done in order that they might import into this country half a million more than was already brought from the mouth of the Danube. I Now let them consider the value of this observation. A quantity of forest land would require to be cleaned, they would require to scrub up the trees, to chain the roots, then to cut them to pieces. They would require also to fence and inclose the ground, and after all this preparation it was expected that at the end of three years they would be enabled to pour into this country at least 5,000,000 quarters of grain. He did not ask as to the population of Hungary, but he did not suppose that they increased at the rate of 1,000 a day. And where was the capital to come from ? In this country a considerable sum was estimated for the cultivation of each acre, but then a greatly increased sum would be required. He did not know who the Noble Lord Liverpool's authority might be (perhaps Mr. Saunders), but at all events he must have been a very sanguine gentleman to 'bresee an increase of 5,000,000 quarters on the immediate passing of this Bill. Lord STANLEY explained that he had stated that this quantity would be brought into the country not immediately, but at the expi ration of the three years. Lord BROUGHAM said that was the very thing he had said, but he supposed his Noble Friend was exhausted in consequence of the brilliant speech he had lately made in the House ; and he would, therefore, excuse him, but when an opinion of this kind was given he (Lord Brougham) expected that the person giving the opinion should be not only a respectable man but a man of some common sense ilso.—(Laughter.) It was an incredible assertion that in three years, and he (Lord Brougham) would give three days also, that in three years and three days 5,000,600 of acres was to be added to the cul tivation of that country for the purpose of deluging their markets and destroying the cultivation of England. And one word with regard to tenant-farmers. Much had been said of the injury which had been inflicted on tenant-farmers. They were a class nor whom the landowners expressed a very great consideration, and he believed they were sincere in their desire to advance the position of the tenant-farmer, and to ameliorate the condition of the agricultu ral labourer, but if their Lordships would take the trouble to examine the opinions of those different parties in the agricultural counties of England they would find that no apprehensions were entertained of the result that would accrue from this measure. How did tenant farmers show their alarm of this measure? why, It w ,,,, by tsaing more farms than they had at present, but perhaps it Wll l 9 a t i rt reduced of rents. No such tiring, 1 , ing, but rather at increased rents. I p cdP fall he the country he had heard of nothi ng , but of farms i s n In be.t.ng degree were to the same effect. That prices would to a c e rt ain had no doubt, but that would not take place yet; wheat would be taken ublic at in lints prints were rents, while he found that the statemen ts cheaper, bnt it would not be so low as to prove injurious to the British farmer, while he looked forward to this measure increasing our foreign trade in a very short period of time. There never were, even in the years of scarcity, more than 2,250,000 quarters of wheat imported. In the years too and 1501 there were only 1,100,000 quarters, and if 250,000 quarters of flour were added, the amount of importation would be at once seen. In e e d d i4 e to nd th en is t country, oforen It the year 1810, the gr ea t es t year of scarcity, there were 7 500 000 g th u e a y rte w rs er lin e mad ') import made co lvas unries said, t fhoorwtehveeirr, supply y l , t this would be giving to th ose countries the power of starving them. To that assertion he would point to the year 1810, and he would conjointly ask, did the argument after the consideration of the circumstances of that year stand for a moment ? Did they not then See the continent under the influence of a power which yielded a most despotic sway over lt, who was influenced by a feeling of ruthless hostility towards England. Talk to him of the petty sovereigns of Europe--talk to him of Egypt, Belgium, Antwerp, and the Hague, refusing to supply the necessities of this country in the day of need. Why, Napoleon was not then the ruler of Prance merely, but of every country in Europe, from the centre at Faris, to the extremities of Europe, he could by his single edict, as he thought, close the ports of Europe —yet notwithstanding this was so dear to his heart, completely in accordance with that policy which he always pursued towards this country —even he was unable to carry out kis intentions and to deprive them of those supplies which they required. What was the result ? Why, 1,514,000 quarters of wheat were imported during the year 1810, and this supply did not come from the outports nor from distant quarters, such as Odessa, or Naples, or Sicily, the old granary of Rome— but 110,000 of the quarters came from France itself. That at once extinguished—for ever extinguished the argument about dependence on foreigners.—(Cheers.) His Noble Friend had said that the protection system was supported by universal consent, and he had quoted statistics that had been made in the most ancient times ; but really if he were to quote old statistics—(Laughter)—he (Lord Brougham) could furnish his Noble Friend many such statistics, were they not too ridiculous to quote. He could quote him some of the most absurd provisions which the wisdom, or the ignorant and unex perienced wisdom, rather of their ancestors, to which his Noble Friend had so eloquentlyjreferred. There was the statute against fore staller, which was one of the ancient statutes, and with the ab surdity of which their Lordships were no doubt acquainted. And yet that law must have b en deemed by the legislature, by whom the statute was enacted, to be the height of wisdom. Bat such things were now abolished, and condemned by universal consent. The system of protection was suspended in Belgium, in Holland, and in Egypt, during the autumn of 1845; every one of those places suspended the operation of the law of protection to native industry; and he thought that that was but a commentary on the useless and absurd attempts to interfere with the supply of the food of the people. If the protective laws were of any use at all, they must of course be more useful in the times of scarcity than at any biker er time minin trade nt.— moms of the country be (Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend then argued that and here would seriously affected by this measure, he must defend a . Noli his e Friend against himself . —(Hear, hear, and , undertake his def ence against because laughter.) He must and, he would himself, uncharit able—he h ' say, more nc nothing more harsh, more cruel, . . his treatment of able—he had almost said more unchristian—than himself could not have been uttered. He (Lordßrougham) really pitied him when be was delivering himself of arguments about the • person had so littl e tariff: He could not have believed that any in his bowels of compassion.—(Laughter.) The tariff (Lord opinion, did not deserve the vituperation which it re ceived at the hand of his Noble Friend. It never was pret en d e d b y any man that he ever heard argue—any rational man at l eas t —no such man ever could have arguee that by increased competition among 'the producers of any article the price of that art i cle would fall. He . thought it was perfectly evident that in creased Competi tion amongst the consumers of an article raised the price of an ar ticle. But the object of the tariff was to enable us t o obtain cheaper goods from abroad and thereby send our gouda AdyautageeuSly to foreign markets,—(Seer, hear) In one case, that was before the passing of the tariff, there was con siderable amount of tonnage more than thereehad been since. Some of this amount had been foreign shipping. He did not think the distinction worthy the consideration of a statesman. With re spect to the Noble Lord's statements respecting the American trade, it proved nothing, or if it proved any thing, it only proved that we did not send them so much as we imported from them. The same with Russia. We sent them produce to an equal amount of importations from them. He did not leek forward to any sudden increase in the trade of foreign markets. One thing he was sure of, that if they liberated their trade other nations would de the same. They did themselves no service by maintaining these restrictions, and if other nations did not fall into the same, views at once they would be no losers by their delay. According to Mr. Greg's _statement,' our trade and commerce were in a most ruinous state. He did not concur in that opinion. Now, he would wish to say one word upon the subject of the sliding scale. His Noble Friend opposite had asked, " Why alter the sliding scale, Wit had been found to be so advantageous as had been stated !" Why It never appeared to him that that was not clearly, and strictly, and purely the argument= ad hominum, and the consequence of it was a great accumulation in the bonded warehouses, of property belonging to parties, who found when it was too late, that the market had been overwhelmed. But then let him ask the House, had not circumstances changed since 1842, and could they test the circum stances of the present day with that year? Even in the year 1844, the harvest was so good that into the year 1845 there were the pro visions of three months of that year taken. Now be begged to say that he was no party to the exaggerated statements that had been made in reference to landlords, for he regarded the landed Interest of the country as sufficient to outweigh all the other interests that could he brought to bear against it, and therefore he would be the last man to give his vote in favour of the corn-laws, it it should place that body in jeopardy. He would tell the landed interest where they could find protection. —(Hear, hoar.) "Se quieris" minimentum "eireumspiee;" and to those who talked of the want of talent in the ar:steeracy, he would say look to the splendid and overwhelming displey of talent which had been displayed during the course of the debate, in another place, and he would call their attention to the man who had led the struggle in anather place, who had cast away all considerations of tempestuous u st e ru i g ia g d le gitvheant upin what to an ambitious man was much, his security of power—what t s h elf os , o ha t d imos exposed wns himself knowii to the ththee mostpoli tical world. to a humane man was much, his personal friendship, in order to do a great public good.— (Hear, hear.) The Earl of WILTON moved the adjournment of the debate. The House adjourned at a Quarter to Two o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 25. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. BRISTOL AND GLOUCESTER RAILWAY BILL. Mr. GREENE move d t h at the minutes of the evidence of the proceedings of the Committee to which the Bristol and Gloucester Railway Bill (No. 2) was referred in the last session of Parliament be referred to the Committee on Group • Cl♦dr:Ds:GTrEie read No. 31 of Railway Bills.--The motion was agreed to. 7saDEs second s V z O nA R d T C tE E i m BILL. and L L d. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. This Bill was committed. ordered to be VIDEAN'S ESTATE BILL was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. SIR GEORGE DUNBAR'S ESTATE BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted. REPORTS. The following reports were brought up, the amendments and alterations agreed to, and the'Bills ordered to be engrossed, viz. :—Plymouth Cemetery, Portsmouth Harbour Pier, Birkenhead Small Debts, South Leith Church, Gorbals Gravi tation Waterworks, Liverpool and Harrington Waterworks, Salford Hundred Court, Liverpool Improvement, Midland Railway (Leicester and Swannington Railway Alteration and Branches ), Edinburgh Paving, Sion College, Inverness and Elgin Junction Railway, Perth and Inverness Railway, Worcester New Gas, Derby and Crewe Junction Railway, Sittingboirne Improvement, London and South-Western Railway ( Farnham and Alton Branch), Lancashire and York shire North-Eastern Railway, Bridgwater and Taunton Canal, Railway, and Harbour, Staines and Richmond Railway, Man chester, Buxton, M a tl oc k, an d Midl an d Junction Railway, Great Grimsby Gas, North Kent Railway, Manchester, Sheffield, and Midland Junction Railway, Morecombe Harbour and Railway, Aberdee n , B an ff, an d Elgin Railway, School masters' Widows' Fund, Thames Haven Dock and Railway (No. 2), Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway (Chapel Mall Branch), Leicester and Bedford Railway, Bristol and Exeter Railway (Crewkerne Branch), Harrogate Gas. GREAT GRIMSBY AND SHEFFIELD JUNCTION EXTENSION (Nos. 1,2, and 3). These Bills were read a third time and passed. SLAMANNAN AND BORROWSTOUNESS RAIL- WAY. This Bill wa s rea d a third time and passed. __ BOSTON, STAMFORD, AND BIRMINGHAM RAIL WAY (STAMFORD TO WISBEACH). This Bill, with amendments, was read a third time and passed. NORTHUMBERLAND DOCKS. This Bill was also read a third time and passed. MANCHESTER MARKETS. This Bill was read a third time and passed. GREAT WESTERN AND WYCOMBE RAILWAY. This Bill was read a third time and passed. GREAT GRIMSBY AND SHEFFIED EXTENSION RAILWAY. This Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of Mr. WARBURTON, the Kendal Unicn Gas and Water Bill was read a third time, as were the Warrington W a t erwor k s an d th e Great No rth of England Bills. Mr. DILLON BROWNE presented a petition from Kil common, in the county of Mayo, praying for the discharge of Mr. Smith O'Brien from the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms. Mr. J. M. M'DONALD presented a petition from tha barony of Costello, county of Mayo, to the same effect. Mr. O'CONNELL presented 17 petitions from various places in Ireland against the Coercion Bill, and also one from the town council of Cork, praying for the release of Mr. Smith O'Brien from the custody of the Sergeant-at- Arms. Mr. B. ESCOTT presented a petition from inhabitants of the city of Winchester, in favour of the Catholic Relief Bill. Sir G. SINCLAIR presented a petition from the Peace Society of Preston against the enrolment of the militia. DUTY UPON FOREIGN SUGAR. Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented a petition from Glas gow, praying for the abolition of the distinction between free. labour and other foreign sugar. He said that the petitioners complained of the inefficient supply of sugar at present in the market, and that the West India sugar imported into this country this year was 30,000 tons less than it was last year. The petitioners further prayed that sugar, the produce of foreign countries, be might admitted on the same terms as sugar the produce of free labour in foreign countries. ROCHDALE POLICE. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD begged leave to ask Sir James Graham (with reference to the return containing the correspondence on the Rochdale borough memorial, Parlia mentary paper, No. 313, May 14th) whether inquiry was made by Captain Woodford, chief constable, into the c4rg t s against the police, referred to in that memorial, as stated to have been made in the reply of the Rochdale magistrates ; and, if so, what was the result of that inquiry ; and, whether Sir James Graham has any objection to lay before the House the proceedings thereon ? Sir J. GRAHAM said he had ordered the inquiry to be made and when he had received it it should be laid upon the table of the House. FOREIGN SUGAR DUTIES. Lord JOHN 'RUSSELL begged leave to give notice that he would, upon an early day after the Whitsuntide holiday'', move in Committee on the Sugar Duties Bill for a reduction on foreign sugars, the produce of slave labour, to the same amount as that now levied upon sugar the produce of free labour ; and that if that should not be acceded to he would move for the removal of differential duties upon all foreign sugars. IRISH LAND COMMISSION REPORT. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD beiged leave to ask Sir R. Peel, whether any Bill or Bills on subjects referred to and recommended for consideration in the Irish Land Commission Report will be proposed by her Majesty's Government this session ; and if so, when it may be expected they will be sub mitted to Parliament, and to what points of such recommen dation they will relate. ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said he was so well aware of the excellent example which the Honourable Member set in Ire land as a landlord, that he conceived he was fully entitled to ask that question, and he could assure the Honourable Member and the House that this was a sub ject which had occupied the most earnest attention of the Go vernment; but the House was aware that a change had recently taken place in the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland, and that since the appointment of his Noble Friend to that offies he had been totally disabled by illness from paying any at tention to public business, and that was the sole reason of legislation upon this subject having been delayed so long; but when his Noble Friend should be able to attend he would be enabled to furnish an outline of the general plan contem plated by her Majesty's Government. In the mean ti me h e (Sir Robert Peel) might say that measures were about being brought forward, into a detail of which it would be premature in him now to enter, but compensation would to tenants justsay a t one of them was to be a Bill f or g i v i ng great pleasure the ejectment et tenants in Ireland—(Cheers)-- a nd t he thi rd would tab' a short outline for a general form of --(Cheers)—the second, aBM to amend the ma l ys aw adre re . g th a a r a i n g evesniti. htiease. A Ct.irekEoeEnULC p l acesHa E id t h l t ithE. day ffT. House was ch wsEoßu probably would A give to her Majesty', loyal subjects. He had to inform the House that her Majesty had that day given birth to a Princess, and sw h u s ebl was et .hHaepHpwye was s o a s ss t u s sr t u e er e . that tthhaa h tt e e r tvh i e l r o y s H t A G oi eu r ms a e c b i e o wr u Gracious lltdahjeeasHltlyoowleuhiwdmooiungtil propose at once, without a notice, a motion on t h e subject. out the universal opinion with regard to the in which he r M a j esty d i scharged her domestic duties!" (Hear, hear.) He would w ith out f urt h er o b servation move, " That the House do present an address of congratulation to her Majesty on the addition to her domestic happiness by the I birth of a Princess." Lord .1. RUSSELL was sure that every Member of the House would concur in the sentiments enressed, and every re. mark which had fallen f rom t h e Right lion. Baronet with re hard to her Most G rac i ous M a j esty. H e would content imself with simply seconding the motion. The motion was then put and agreed to. MR. SMITH O'BRIEN. Mr. SHAW said that he rose, pursuant to a notice which be had given, to move the discharge from the custody of the Sergeant-at. Arms of Mr. Smith O'Brien. He begged to state, in deference to the Hon. and Learned Member for the county of Cork, who had also a motion to the same effect, that he would have given way to the Hon. and Learned Member on this matter, but that he (Mr. Shaw) felt his motion to be better calculated to the discharge of the Hon. Member now in. custody. It was that feeling alone, and not a spirit of rivalry which prompted him to press his motion.—( Hear, hear.) The Committee which the Hon. Member had refused to attend had new concluded its labours, and therefore he was satisfied that there was nothing now to keep the Hon. Member longer in confinement. The Committee had not yet made their report, but all their labours had concluded, and he would be borne out in that statement by the Hon. Chairman of that Committee. He would move that William Smith O'Brien, Esq., in custody of the Sergeant-at-Arens at tending this House, be di s charged out of custody, paying his fees. ' _ _ Mr. HENLEY said that the Committee had concluded its labours, and it now only remained for them to report to the House ; and he could assure the House, when supporting the motion of the Hon. Member for the University of Dublin, that the public business had not suffered by the absence of the Hon. Member, Mr. O'Brien, from the Committee.—(A laugh.) Mr. P. BUTLER was glad to find that the motion now before the House had emanated from the _Honourable Member for the University o f Dublin. He did not think it necessary to read the letter which had been written by Mr. Smith O'Brien. The s ubstance o f th at letter was already su ffi ci en tl y b efore the Ho use. He could not in any way find fault with the conduct of their ex cellent Sergeant- a t-A rms, as he ough ß t ut to ou do ti i ie f he rese fo a l- t lowed the subj ec t o f that letter. auspicious oc cas i on, h e did conceive that seine P eourso might be pursued alike consistent with the dignity of the House, and with the honour of that Member whose dis charge he sought to obtain. Sir R. PEEL said that the question of the Hon. Member pertained to the point whether the discharge of Mr. Smith O'Brien was consistent with the honour of the House. In reply he was bound to say that no one regretted the detention of that Hon. Member more than he did, and that they had not the benefit of his presence on that, as it bad well been termed, auspicious eceasion.—( Cheers.) Now he was bound to say that her Majesty's Government had had few more anxious subjects of consideration than his detention in, custody.—( Cheers.) Now it was the impression of her Ma jesty's Government that it was impossible to detain that Hon,