The Sun. — London, England, 1837-02-08 00:00:00

LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF KING'S BENCH, Fra. 7. IMPORTANT DECISION. STOCKDALE V. HANSARD. (Concluded from The Sun of yesterday.) The plaintiff replied in a speech of three hours duration, in the course of which he was repeatedly recalled from wander ing into irrelevant matter by the Chief Justice. He contended ti atthe defendants' first plea of Not Guilty could not be main tained on the grounds alleged by the Attorney-general, inasmuch as the privilege of the House of Commons could not extend to the protection of its servants or members from the consequence of acts done or publications made outside its walls ; and to the second plea he replied with great prolixity, by describing the book alluded to in the alleged libel, as a strictly scientific work on the subjects of human anatomy and physiology. The LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE then summed up. The defend ants had pleaded, first, that they were not guilty ; and, se condly, in justification, the words complained of being true. The issue on the first plea was to be tried on two points : Whether the defendants had published the report, and whether it was li bellous. The publication not being denied, the jury had to find whether the book was really and fairly a scientific work, and unjustly described in the report. Yet it might be said that a person publishing a scientific work on anatomy and physio logy must unavoidably use terms and publish plates, which in common language would be described as most disgusting and obscene, and indecent in the extreme. It was the opinion of the plaintiff that those terms did not apply correctly to this book, and that he would be criminal, and guilty of an immoral act, if he published such a book as this was described to be. Tue jury had it in their hands, and they would form their own opinion of its character. With respect to the plea of not guilty, which the Attorney-General supported on a third point, namely, that the Report was a privileged publication ; i" 1 must declare to you most e►phatically," said his Lordship, " that I dill: r entirely from the law of the Attorney-General. I cannot admit of the existence of any body whatever in this country, which can order or authorise its servants or others, to publish and sell for money libels which might ruin a man in his business, or injure his character. I think that on the first occasion of this question being raised in a court of law, the Judge would be an accomplice to the destruction of the liberties of his country, and instrumental in establishing in it a tyranny which no man could endure, if he did not emphatically declare that the authorisation of the House of Commons can be no justification for the publication of libel." If the jury were of opinion that the plaintiff's book was not disgusting, indecent, and obscene, they must find for him upon the second plea ; and then would come the consideration of the amount of damages. On that point the plaintiff had adduced no evidence to show to what extent he had been injured in his business or other wise. A great deal had been said by the plaintiff on the subject of a conspiracy on the part of the defendants, to injure his reputation and trade ; but it was rsost irrational to suppose that the inspectors of prisons arid the defen dants could have conspired for any such purpose. The in spectors, however, in the discharge of their public duty, had brought themselves unnecessarily into a d►spute with the plaintiff. It was not necessary to have introduced any name into their report. It would have been as well if they had only said that they found an indecent book in the prison. Bat it shoald be also considered that a book which was a very proper book for scientific men plight be a very improper book in a prison. The Jury, after an hour's deliberation, found for the plaintiff upon the first plea, and for the defendants on the second, naniels', that the book spoken of in the Inspector's Report was disgusting, indecent, and obscene, his Lordship having said that they must find in those three words expressly, if they found for the justification. HORRORS OF WAR. Ile battles of Jena and Auerstadt had been fought. Ceneral Blucher, who had followed the retreat with the Prince of Hohenloe, on the left bank, was separated from him, threw himself with his corps into the territory of Mecklenburgh, and being pursued by Bernadotte, Soult, and Murat, found himself more and more closely pressed. lie, therefore, passed the Trove, and with '25,000 men en ;tercel Lubeck, in spite of ell the remonstrances of the free ;vnperial city, which would - have most willingly maintained 7:4, 9 ueutrality. The Freffeh followed him closely, and on i;th of November 1896, a sanguinary conflict took place bet. - reen the two armies, which was but too soon continued withirr she walls. After an heroic resistance, Blucher was obli.tetl to leave the city. The victors, perfectly ignorant of the well circumstances, considered Lubeck as an hostile cite, and urned all their fury upon the unfortunate inhabi tiiit ;. A dreadful scene of pillage ensued, which was net fuliy checked till after the lapse of three days. The citizens were ill treated by the French in every possible manner. blucher capitulated at Rateltato on the 7th of November, zol the nuhappy city had now to maintain 75,000 men. The humanity of Bernadotte succeeded in putting an end to these horrors, and, by a strict discipline, at least to dice!: the progrets of such awful devastation. But Lubeck was was wholly unable to recover itself ; from that time it was depressed under intolerable burdens. Enormous contribu tions exhausted its treasury, its commerce was annihilated, ;:ind with that, its principal resources dried up, and even the hcne of better times vanished, when, on the 10th of Decem ber, 1810, it was incorporated with the French empire, and its eoostitution abolished by nn act of violence after it had .existed 600 years. On the Sunday after this catastrophe, the free corps of the French Colonel Amell, loaded with the pilage of friends and foes in Mecktenburgh, &c. &c., and. with the spoils of the unhappy Lubeck, arrived at a village rear Hamburgio where they held a kind of fair for the sale of their plunder. We ourselves saw soldiers eager to lighten their burden, sell quantities of silver coin (a handkerchief :full) for a lois d'or—silver table-spoons for a shilling,. „Horses, many of there very good, but of course, dreadfully rled, were sold from half-a-crown to thirty shillings each. friend of ours bought a horse, which proved to be a very line one, for four shillings English. It was reported that a splendid diamond necklace was sold for two louis d'ors. At Hamhurgh, under Davoust and Vandamme (1813), a con. tribution of forty-eight millions of francs was imposed upon it, its bank plundered, and, lastly, when the allied troops ,npproaced to its relief, it was declared in a state of siege. From this moment the French laid aside all moderation, burnt and devastated the environs with such precipitation, that the poor inhabitants could save little or none of their property—and 40,000 persons, who were too poor to fur nish themselves with a sufficient stock of provisions, were expe'led from the city, exposed to the dreadful inclemency of a most severe winter, to famine and the ravages of an. epidemic nervous fever. The French proceeded with the greatest cruelty. Thus Davoust caused a number of un fortunate citizens to be taken from their beds on the night of Christmas Eve, 1813, to be shut up in St. Peter's Church, and, at day-break, to be driven by his bloodhounds like a flock of sheep out of the gates, The neighbouring town of Altona received the fugitives with kindness, and, though itself in great distress, did its utmost to relieve them. It may be interesting to compare with this another historical event. Just a hundred years before, the Swedish General, Stenbock, reduced Altona to ashes ; and, during the dreadful conflagration, the senate of Hamburgh closed the gates of the city, to keep off the crowd of fugitives ; gave ar, banquet to the ferocious conqueror, and accompanied him to the ramparts, to view, in all its horrors, the spec tacle of' the burning town.—German Tourist. On - Wednesday last the Bourn Ease bank burst, laying the contiguous lands under water, and causing im mense damage. The cottagers in the neighbourhood were obliged to run for their lives, leaving their cottages and pro perty under water. The accident was caused by the great weight of water in the drain. A gastronomic misadventure, of a curious descrip tion, recently took place at. Lille. A person of consequence ordered at wild boar's head from the Ardennes for a grand dinner, to which he had invited a number of guests. The dainty was duly delivered, but the conductor of the dili gence, by mistake, also left for the Amphitryon a roebuck, which came by the same conveyance, but which was de signed for the Mayor of Roubaix, who was likewise on the point in giving a dinner in celebration of his daughter's marriage. The owner of the boar's head, imagining that the venison had been sent in addition to his order by his currespondent of the Ardennes, lost no time in dividing it into quarters, which were despatched as presents to some friends. In the meantime the Mayor of Roubaix made in- T airies at the Diligence-office for the expected buck, and, to his unutterable dismay, learnt what had become of it. No alternative was left for the gastronome, by whom it.had been so kindly divided amongst his friends, than to send to the different parties, state the circumstances of the case, and beg them to return each his portion. That step was accordingly taken, but, to complete the chapter of accidents, each of the parties, on receiving the present of venison, had invited some friends to partake of it, and all of them were in their turn obliged to send and make excuses. LONGEVITY.--We have this week to record the decease of the oldest inhabitant of Kent, who died at Ken nington, on Friday, at the age of 108 years. We allude to a woman named Ann Parker, who was born on the 29th of September, 1728, at Kennington, her parents being labour ing people, of the name of Burn, residing in that parish. About the year 1750 she was married, and became the mother of two children, the eldest of whom died about three years ago, and the other is still living at Feversham, in her 84th year. Her faculties were unimpaired to the last ; she could narrate events which happened as far back as 1747 with surprising accuracy ; and her eyesight was so good, 'that it never required the use of spectacles. During her 'whole life she i abstained from t a ki ng s pirituous liquo rs , in cralging only n tea. She has for some ycart past been °rte of those beings ycleped living wonders, and few per so, IS visited the neighbourhood without p a ying a visit to L 'Lime Parker." During the last 40 years she was re lieve t i by the parish, and that, united with the kindness of box friends, enabled her to !vie and die in comfort.— ,ish Observer. A coach proprietor, at Nottingham, named Wilmott, has bad almost 200 horses die, in less than a year, of some fatal disease. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Fazumutr 7. Lord STRAFFORD presented a petition from the Dissen ters of the borough of Poole, praying for the Abolition of Church rates. A Noble Lord (whose name was not known in the gallery) presented a petition from the Mayor and Town Council of the borough of Derby ; likewise petitions from several Dissenting places of worship of the same place, praying for the total abolition of Church-rates. In the prayers of the petitioners the Noble Lord begged to say he entirely concurred. Viscount DUNCANNON presented, in the absence of a Noble Friend, a petition frem Chard, Bradford, and Morley, praying for the abolition of Church-rates. The House then adjourned till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEBAVARY 7. The SPEAKER took the chair this evening at fire minutes to four o'clock. Mr. R. Bowles, the new Member for Evesham, was intro duced by Sir 0. Mosley and Colonel Lygon, and took the oaths and his scat. Mr. Waller, from the Office of the Woods and Forests, presented papers at the bar according to order. MIDLAND COUNTIES RAILWAY. Mr. GISBORNE presented a petition in favor of an exten sion of the Midland Counties Railway, which was ordered to be referred to the Committee. -- --- v~ .- ... TORQUAY ROAD. On the motion of Sir .1. Y. BULLER the Torquay Road Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. POOR LAWS. Mr. B ROTHE RT 0 N presented a petition, agred to at a public meeting of his constituents at Salford, pray ing for a repeal of the Poor Laws Amendment Bill. The petition was unanimously agreed to, and it stated an apprehension, that in the manufacturing districts great hardship would be experienced by the operation of the Act referred to, particularly that part of it authorising the separation of husband and wife ; and it prayed that the perpetrators of the Act might be brought to condign punish ment.—(A laugh.) Mr. POTTER felt it right to state that most of the per sons who attended that meeting were not inhabitants of Sal ford, but came from a distance. He was informed also that the most violent and unjustifiable language had been made use of. ABOLITION OF CHURCH-RATES. Mr. GIL LON presented a petition from Dunfermline, praying for the entire abolition of Church-rates, and that no grant of the public money might be made for the building of Churches i❑ Scotland. Petitions for the abolition of Church-rates were also pre sented by Mr. WILKS, from places in Northamptonshire ; five by Mr. BAINES, from places in Yorkshire, and by several other Hon. Members. SCOTCH VOTERS. Mr. GILLON had a petition to present from certain persons, claiming to be voters for the County of Linlith gow. The petitioners complained, that while the persons employed in registering, fictitious voters had shown the most extreme alacrity in promoting the views of their employers, they had with the most scrupulous anxiety examined the claims of bona fide electors, and had very im properly kept them off the list. Ile would add that a strong impression prevailed in that part of the country that these persons were actuated by party motives in their conduct. The decisions of the Sheriffs in various parts of the country bad been diametrically opposed to each other, and the peti tioners prayed for the establishment of some uniform practice in respect of the registration. Ile moved that the petition be referred to the Committee on fictitious votes. After a few words from the SPEAKER, the petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. GILLON gave notice that he would bring the subject before the L•;:192 on t future day. Mr. HINDI, EY presented petitions from independent Congregations in Stay ley Bridge, Hythe, and two other places, praying fur the total and entire abolition of Church-rates. AL.. POTTER presented a petition to the same effect, from a place in the county of Leic, ster. Captain DUNDAS presented a petition from Bristol, praying for the abolition of Taxes on Soap. Mr. D. ROCHE presented a petition from two parishes in the ccuoty or Limerick. praying for the introduction of Poor Laws into Irciant% Mr. WILLIAM ROCHE supported the prayer of the pe titio::. The introduction ofan improved system of Poor Laws would tend greatly to alter the condition of that country, and indeed they could sc.lrcely expect happiness or a progressive Frosperity in that country, unless some relief were granted to the poor. EXPLOSION OF GUNPOWDER AT LIMERICK. Mr. D. ROCHE gave notice that, on Tue.;day next, he would move for a copy of the Memorial presented to the Trea sury from Limerick, praying that some relief might be afforded to the unfortunate persons who had suffered by the late exp!o siwa of gunpowder at Limerick. EDINBURGH AND GLASGOW RAILWAY. Lord BENTINCK presented a petition from some place (name not mentioned), praying for leave to bring in a Bili for the construction of a Railway loom Edinburgh to Glasgow. SOAP DUTY. Lord W. BENTINCK presented a petition from Glasgow, praying for the repeal of the duty cn Soap. • criuncu The LORD ADVOCATE presented a petition from Leith, prali - 1( - 4- for the abcdition of Cher+ Rates. Mr. "'EASE oregented a petition from the Protestant Dis senters of the liaptist denomillatioa of Portsmouth, playing for the total abolition of Church-rates. Mr. SHAW LE FE VR E presented petitions from parishes in Hampshire, praying for the total abolition of Church-rates ; also a petition from the beer-sellers residing in the same county, complaining of the alterations in the Beer Act. Sir GEORGE SINCLAIR—As there was then nothing before the House, and as he saw the Noble Lord, the Secre tary for Ireland, in his place, he wished to put a question to him with respect to the Irish Tithe Bill. It was a question which had attracted great attention in all parts of the country ; and in Scotland, in particular, it was looked upon as the question which would at once decide the existence of the Established Church. He wished to knew whether it was the intention of the Government to bring in the Bill be fore Easter ; or was it their intention to do as they had hither to done, to postpone its introduction from time to time, and after it was introduced, to allow it to drag its slow length along, so that it would not be sent up to the other House till a very late period in the Session ? Lord MORPETH was not aware whether Government would be able to bring forward the Tithe Bill before Easter or not. The Hon. Baronet must be aware that some Bills must have precedence of others. HULL TRINITY HOUSE. Mr. HUTT wished to know from the Noble Lord below him (Lord John Russell), whether it was intended to grant a charter to the Hull Trinity House? Lord J. RUSSELL was not able to answer the question. Mr HUTT hoped that the Noble Lord would be a Candi date for Hull at the next election.—( A laugh.) CHURCH RATES. Mr. SANFORD presented several petitions from various Dissenting congregations of Ilminster, Wellington, Chard, and other places in Somersetshire, praying for the total abolition of Church-rates. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND). That part of his Majesty's Speech relating to Ireland hav ing been read, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said—Although, Sir, I feel no apprehension as to the result of the motion I am going to make, yet the subject I am about to introduce is of so much importance, and I feel so strongly that the question of what relates to the political condition of Ireland is so difficult, that I approach it with great caution and anxiety. United as we are with that country, and al though I do not believe that the people of England are either hostile or indifferent to the welfare of Ireland, yet I must confess that so much misapprehension of the subject exists, that misrepresentation is to easily believed—( Hear) —and with so much difficulty dispelled ; that impressions are readily taken and hardly ever removed; that misstatements so hastily are put forward and laboriously propagated—that I feel great fear lest I should not be able to state my sincere conviction on the subject ; while at the same time I state forcibly, as I feel strongly, my firm impressions - and I hope that my arguments will not fail to induce the House to give its sanction and approbation to the motion with which I shall conclude.—( Cheers.) Sir, the Bill which I shall pro pose is of that nature that it requires not any very length ened defence or explanation.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It is simply a Bill to remove abuses, and to provide for the Reform of the Irish Corporations.—(Hear, hear.)—The abuses are not denied ; in truth they are stated to be greater than the abuses which prevailed in the Corporations of England and Scotland. Neither, Sir, is the remedy stated to be an unfit or an unsuffi cient one. n the contrary you have admitted, Parliament has admitted, that the remedy which has been proposed was a remedy fit for the occasion—fit to be applied to the corporations of Scotland and England. ( Hear.) The whole question, therefore, is this—that whether the abuses being, notorious—that whether the remedy being suf ficient—you will apply to Ireland that which you have already applied to Scotland and to England ? And in fact the whole statement in opposition to this Bill is little more than this, that whereas Scotland is inhabited by Scotchmen and England by Englishmen, because Ireland is inhabited by Irish men, you will refuse them the same measure of relief. Now Sir, I will only say, that with respect to the particular pro visions of the Bill, the Bill I now propose to introduce varies very little indeed from the Bill passed by this House last year; and that Bill was not different in its principle from the Bill passed the year before for Eng land. There were one or two points, as the House knows, in which alterations were made in the English Bill from that adopted for Albtland • and there was also some difference be tween the Bill that had been introduced for Ireland, and the English Bill—the one in regard to the franchise, as we had not the same description of rate-payers in Ireland as we have in this country—therefore, in place of the la fran chise, we were obliged to adopt the 5/. franchise. Sir, ano ther difference which was made in the Bill of last year—not at first, but after it came to this House—was one vesting the appointment of the sheriffs in the Crown. Now, Sir, upon this subject I shall state generally my opinion that in many of those offi,:es connected with the administration of justice, the Crown ought to have the appointment. In the Scottish Bill we give the appointment of the magistracy to the councillors; in the English Bill that appointment is given to the Crown. It is now in the Crown, although the advisers of the Crown generally take the advice of the Council. In the Bill we proposed last year for Ireland the appointment of sheriffs for towns was vested in the Crown. Now, Sir, I have somewhat altered that in the Bill I new THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 8 1837. ask leave to introduce. I now propose that the council should nominate three persons, whose names would be returned to the Lord Lieutenant, of whom the Lord Lieutenant might appoint one, or he might reject the whole. In such a case the Council would again nominate three more—the Lord Lieutenant might either appoint one or reject these three ; he would have the power of rejecting the whole six, and then he would proceed to ap point one upon his own responsibility. Sir, I think this right, because I think it will tend to make the administra tion of justice more satisfactory if the selection be made from the returns made by the Council ; but I think again, on the other hand, that the exercise of any right of ap pointment by the Crown ought to be paramount. For instance, last year I strongly objected to the powers given to the Revising Barristers in the division of towns into wards. I find that I was correct ; inconvenience has arisen—an appeal has been made to the King in Council against the divisions which have been made by some Barristers. The King, in Council, finding the arrangements were incon venient, made an order for alteration ; but the Revising Bar rister, when it was sent down to him, treated it with disre spect. The authority of the King in Council was set at nought. I think, therefore, that where the authority of the Crown is in troduced at all—and I think it should be introduced in a matter of this importance, there should be a power in the Crown, sup posing the Town Council not to recommend any persons whom the Lord Lieutenant might appoint, that the Crown or the Lord Lieutenant should ultimately have the power to select proper persons. I think that this power will hardly be exer cised unless under very extraordinary circumstances, that the six persons selected by the Town Council should, for some obvious reasons, be unfit for the appointment.—( Loud cheers.) These are the main alterations in this Bill from the English Act, and the Bill of last Session. T hey are not of great importance—they are merely such alterations as must take place when you have to adopt a Bill in another part of the country.--( Hear.) But, Sir, there are other considerations connected with this subject to which I think it necessary now to proceed, and upon which Par liament will ultimately have to decide. I have proposed this Bill as a remedy for the civil grievances suffered by the people of Ireland, with respect to their Municipal Corporations. I have proposed it as a Bill, which in point of principle meets with no objection, and which is only met by the objection which I stated before ; that in spite of the Act of Union, and in spite of the Act of Emancipation, the Roman Catholics were still placed on a different footing. Sir, I feel it necessary on this occasion, especially after the statements that have been made, and some resolutions that have been entered into—l feel it necessary to state the grounds on which the Govern ment in Ireland proceeded to render itself executive, and the grounds on which we have proceeded to recommend to the Le gislature acts in conformity with this executive authority ; and, Sir, I think it right to state that I consider this a question conclusive as regards the present Administration.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, lam sensible of the evil of bringing forward bills—year after year—and suffering them to be de feated—( Hear, hear)—and to be lost without taking any steps.--( Hear, hear.) I think it right, Sir,--we consider it right, that Parliament and the country should have full time to consider the nature of the Government of Ireland, and the nature of the proposition we now make ; but I do not think that the Government could permanently go on and be entitled to the confidence of this House, which has not hitherto been withheld from it.—( Hear, hear.) It would not, I say Sir, be entitled to that confidence, if it remained sufferin g principle s to be adopted as to Ireland, against which we have decided, and against which we positively protest.—( Loud cries of Hear.) Sir, there can be no question more simple—there can be no question more direct to bring this argument to the test than the Bill which I shell this night propose. It i s a question not properly interfering with any religious prejudices—. not capable of being twisted and perverted by a curious display of figures, but it is a plain question of right—( Hear, hear)_ whether the Irish people arc fit to enjoy those rights which you declare are conformable to the Constitution of this coun try, or whether you will proscribe them as unfit for that en joyment, and proclaim then as an inferior race among man kind ?—( Immense cheering.) Now, Sir, before I enter into the question of what the Executive of Ireland has done, and the nature of the proposition that we now make as bearing on the conduct of that Executive, I will take leave to recur to the name and the authority of a very great man. I must say, that whenever I wish to look for a great authority upon the Constitution of this country--whenever I wish to look for en larged principles with respect to the manner in which the Government of this country should be carried on--I do not refer to the period of Knox, nor to the legal statements of Blackstone; but I refer whenever I can to the prin. ciples and maxims of Fox. —( Loui and continued cheering.) Mr. Fox stated in a very eloquent speech which he delivered in the House of Commons in 1797, the principles on which be emceited the Government of Ireland should be founded. He stated with his usual frankness on the same occasion, that he conceived concessions ought to be made to the people of Ire land. He said if he found he had not conceded enough lie would concede more; lie said he thought the only way of governing Ireland was to please the people of Ireland ; and he declared in one sentence, which I will read to you, his wish with respect to the Government of Ireland. I wish that Hon. Gentlemen opposite possessed the same sentiments, but lam afraid they do not. He said, "My wish' is, that the whole `people of Ireland should -have the same princi pies,. the same system, the same opeeatione of Govern ment ; and, though it may be a subordinate considera tion, that all classes should have an equal chance of emolument; in other words, I would have the whole Irish Government regulated by Irish notions and Irish prejudices; and I firmly believe that the more she is under Irish Govern ment the more will she be bound to English interests."— ( Cncers.) Sir, so deeply did Mr. Fox feel the injustice of keeping one class of the people of this country in a different state to another, that in the year 1805, towards the end cf his life, he undertook to bring forward in this House the question of Catholic Emancipation.—(Hear. ) And when he was told, by Mr. Sheridan I believe, a person in a very high station, that his late Majesty King George the Third was anxious that that question should be postponed, he answered him at once, not only that he had already fixed the day, but he said " not only would any further discussion on this part of the subject be too late, but I must fairly own if it were not, I could not be persuaded from doing that public act, which, of all others, it will give me the greatest satisfaction and pride to perform. No past events of my political life ever did, and no future one ever can give me such pleasure." That was the way in which \lr. Fox spoke when he was asked to postpone bring leg forward the Emancipation, and by the extracts I have read, I think the House will see that he intended, not that it should be an Act placed on the Statute Book, and left there, but that it should be an Act of Parliament for the rule and guide and conduct of the Government towards Ireland, and by that means, he said, you will bind the people of Ireland more firmly to English in terests.—(Great cheers.)—l maintain that Lord Mulgrave has acted upon the principles laid down by Mr. Fox.— ( Cheers.)—He has endeavoured to do that which I must say, has not been fully done before—( Hear, hear)—to carry into every part of the Irish Government the spirit of impar tial justice.—( Cheering.) When I say it has not been done before, much as I admire the character of Lord Mulgrave, I am not going to place him, or those who sit here, above any Governors or Ministers who governed Ireland before ;but I will say that while Lord Melbourne governed Ireland with the most upright, and impartial, and with the most generous intentions, he has had this advantage, that his Government has been one, and united.—( Great cheering.) He had the advantage of a Chief_Secretary—( Hear, and cheers)—of an Attorney-Gene ral, all acting in complete accordance with his views ; and, I will venture to say, that although the office of Attorney- Ge neral has been held by three different gentlemen, since Lord Mulgrave assumed the Government of Ireland— ( Hear, hear, hear)—that if the Earl of Haddiugton had succeeded at the Castle, not one of them would have remained to act under a Tory Administratiou.—( Cheers and laughter from the Opposition.) Sir, this is a question of very con siderable importance, because 'there ie tench in the Govern ment of Ireland which depends on the details of these offices, that no Lord Lieutenant with the best and fairest possible intentions can be aware of what are the precise evils, and of the exact nature of the remedies to be applied. I will illustrate this by a reference to the conduct pursued by Baron O'Loghlen when Attorney-General for Ireland. He found that when jurors were called it was the custom to set men aside, not because they were prejudiced itt the case ; not because they were known- to be connected with or favour. able to the accused; but because they were of the Roman Ca tholic religion, or, being Protestants, .were of liberal political opinions.—(Cheers.) - that is preyed by a letter of Mr. O'Loghlen, which I lately received, and in which it is stated that the discontinuance and complete alteration of that system has been found to produce the most beneficial effects, to be attended with no fewer convictions, and cal culated to ensure a confidence in the impartial administiation of the laws. —( Hear.) Sir, I think this is a question of the very greatest importance, because, when we consider the want of confidence that has existed, I will not say for years, but for centuries, in the administration of justice in Ireland, one cannot but think that when men stood in the courts of justice, and saw persons of respectable character set aside on account of their religion or their opinions in politics, it was natural to infer that they would not be justly treated with, and that the verdict would not be that of twelve honest men, but of twelve selected partizans.—( Hear, h ear.) Mr. O'Loghlen, therefore, did a very great service to the administration of justice by the rule laid down that those chal lenges were not to be persevered in, and it was only on ac count of persons being connected with or prejudiced in favour revailed has h of the party that the challenge of the Crown was to be per mitted. Sir, there was anothe r innovation introd uced by Mr. O'Loghlen, which was of t he g reatest im portance, as eerd of affecting the Municipal faction Municipal Corp orations. fighta whichhaveEverybody in Ireland—of the blood which has been spilt, and the fierce and desperate battles that have taken place between one party and another ; and it is represented, and I believe with truth, that there was a great indifference with respect to the prose. cution of these offences. There were Magistrates, who acting upon the old maxim of divide et i'npera, thought better to allow them to assuage their bloody dispositions upon those oc casions, than to put a stop to them, and use the power of the law for their prevention: Sir, I must say that, in my view, nothing is more mistaken. There is nothing more dreadful, nothing more iniquitous, than allowing those mur derous scenes that were going on in that country. T here is nothing more likely to tend to the subversion of mo rality in that country, or to encourage the effusion of blood. It was an observation in the history of' the Florentine Republic with respect to the attempted assassina tion of Lorenzo de Medici, that assassination failed because the person appointed to do the work was a priest, and not used to scenes of the kind, and that he was substituted in the room of a soldier, who was also one of the persons engaged in the conspiracy, for no other reason than that the latter had not been appointed actually to commit the assassination. No doubt there was a great deal in the fact of men being accustomed to, shed blood without much provocation ; or in the prosecutioa of some irreconcilable few, they may attack one of another body and murder him. Thus the shedding of blood was constantly kept up.—( Hear.) These men are more likely, when they have a person whom they consider their enemy before them, against whom they have some spite, or from whom they think they have suffered oppression—are not such men, so indulged and used to blood, more likely to com mit homicide and murder than men in whom these habits have been subdued ?—( Hear, hear.) It had been Mr. Baron O'Loghlen's care to recommend and direct that there should be a solicitor employed at every quarter Sessions, who should send in an account of all cases of this kind, and direct the prosecution by the Crown of all those cases in which he thought he could obtain a conviction. The effect of this pro ceeding has, I believe, been most beneficial.—( Cheers.) It has been seen that crimes of this kind arc not suffered with impunity, and there is now some reason to hope that the long and inveterate habits of the people are beginning to be subdued. Sir, another measure taken not by Mr. O'Loughlen, but by the Irish Government—after an Act had passed, this House was to establish uniformity and system in the police force : that force was no doubt a very powerful and useful force ; but it had become to be considered as a force not actuated solely by a desire to maintain the peace of the country, and to vin dicate the law, but was considered as one intimately con nected with the interests of a party. —( Hear, and cheers.) It has been the anxious care of the Irish Government, and of the Gallant Officer who is at the head of the police, to endeavour to make that force' one, having no object but to enforce the observance of the law. Sir, in addition to these, it has been our most anxious care, upon every occasion, to tell the people that it was their duty to refrain from those crimes of outrage and disturbance, which has hitherto ruined that country ; and I am most happy to say, that such advice has not been without its use ; so much so, that in some parts of the country societies had been established with the sole purpose of obtain ing a better observance of the law and the lessening of crime. Sir,l will now give some of the results with respect to crime, andits diminution in Ireland. I know that it is stated that crime has not, in fact, really diminished, and in order to bear out that statement reference will be had to great crimes which appeared in the usual vehicles of information. Sir, if we were to de pend upon sentiments of that kind, we could furnish you with statements of crime in the county of Middlesex which would make this country appear to be in a much worse state than Ireland. But, as the test is, to observe what the state of the countrysis, I shall just take the testimony of the Judges themselves at the last Summer Assizes. In Kilkenny Baron Pennefather stated to the Grand Jury that there was no offence to which he could direct particular observation, and that he had to congratulate them on the state of the calendar.—( Hear. ) Again : Baron Pennefather, in the county of Wexford, said it was surprising that a county of such extent should be so free from crime.—( Hear, hear.) Judge Johnston, in address ing the Grand Jury of the county of Kildare, said that the light state of the calendar called for scarcely any observa tion upon any particular cases, and in the Queen's County, the same Judge said that he had cast his eye over the calendar, and that he congratulated them upon its state. Judge Burton, in Sligo, congratulated the Grand Jury upon the tranquil state of that county ; and - Baron Foster, in the county of Clare, stated that the present state of the calendar of crime there formed a gratifying' contrast to that of former periods—he said that the list was inconsiderable; and although there were crimes of some enormity upon it, yet there were none of an insurrectionary character. —( Hear hear.) Baron Foster again, in the city of Limerick, said to the Grand Jury that he was happy to inform them that the calendar was so light; and Jus tice Perlin, in that county, said that he had to congratulate them that the state of the calendar afforded such evidence of the peaceable state of tho county. —( Hear.) Sir William Smith, in the county of Carlow, said that the offences they had had to deal with could not be called numerous. —( Hear.) In Louth, the Chief Baron said, that the number of indictments was small, and, except two, that they were not of a nature or cha racter to show that the county was in a disturbed state ( Hear, hear, hear.) In Down, the Lord Chief Justice said, that the state of the calendar was such as to demand the lively congratulations of all the friends of peace and good order.—( Hear, hear.) This testimony is of a na ture that cannot be contradicted. It consists of public docu ments—the addresses of the Judges in the several counties in which they presided and made their judicial observations. --( Hear, hear.) Will any one then say that Ireland is in a singular state of disturbance, or that Lord Mulgrave has connived at or winked at crime, when the country is in such a state as this ?—( Loud cheers.) I say nothing of any political bias of the Judges. Ido not suppose they have any ; but I rely on their doing their duty to the country, and if it had not been so, it would have been made known. With res pect to the numbers I have received a return lately : it has been made out within the last few days, and with as much accuracy as possible.—( Hear, hear, hear.) But at the same time it is right to say there has been a difference in the man ner of classing and defining crime since the Police Act passed last year ; therefore it has been matter of considerable difficulty to make any comparison between that and the former years. Still there are some of the crimes that will show very well the state of the country, and the totals, I believe, may be depended upon—all of them of a deep, and some of them of an insurrectionary nature. The totals of the principal outrages during the last three months of 1832,were 3,065. That was the year before the Coercion Bill was brought in ; and certainly at the close of that year there was a consider able increase of crime. But the average of the years 1833, 1834, and 1335, was 2,377 ; and the average of 1836 was 1,431. With respect to the whole year in 1832 only 11,259. In 1833, 1834, and 1835, the average is 9,919; and in 1836 the amount is 7,836, bei'tg a diminution of 2,092 from the previous years. This, be it observed, contains the principle class of crimes. 5 mon ths; ln the I will now take some three or four crimes which are of great atrocity, or are genera lly connec t e d w ith outrage. The burnings in the last th ree mon th s o f 1833 were 136; the average of the thr e e f o ll ow i ng y ears 124. In 1836 they were 1832 2erathey o three were years, ela4r 61 2s:t;akainnac; in the last 4o three n crime was exceedingly common ; it is still a crime that prevails to a great extent, and is a crime which I consider decidedly of an insurrectionary character. There were in 1832-533 ; the average of the three following years-226 ; and in the year 1836 they were 68. The robberies of arms were in 1832-238 ; the average of three years 60 ; and in 1836 only 30.—( Hear.) I will now take the whole year. In the whole year of 1832, burnings 571—the average of three years, 525. In 1836 there were 465. I shall now take the offence of firing into houses. In 1833, 1834, and 1835, the average number was 1,062 ; in 1836 the total number was 518. I shall now proceed to another offence of a revolutionary character, viz., the robbery of arms. In the three years which I have just mentioned the average number was 369 ; in 1836 the number was 147.—( Much cheering.) Sir, I have many other returns of a similar nature, more especially showing that in the county of Tipperary there has been a very great decrease of crimes of this description ; but as to crimes of another nature—l mean riots and assaults, the number of persons named in indictments in 1835, was 795. By returns up to January 1837, I find that the number named in indictments in 1836 was 344.—(Cheers.) Sir, I wish to bring the attention of the House to those facts which show what is the result of a fair and impartial administration of the laws.—( Cheers.) I now proceed to another subject, on which I do not mean to dwell at any length. It is a subject that was brought before the House last year, and which occupied much of your attention ; Sir, I mean the subject of Orange Associa tions and other Secret Societies in Ireland. It will be in the re reollection of this House that those Secret Societies which belonged exclusively to persons of one religion, were condemned on all sides, and that it was agreed that they must not be allowed to exist. It will be re membered thit members of the Orange Society in this House unanimously declared, and I sincerely believe they have kept the promise, that they would cease to belong to them.—( Hear, hears) Sir, I consider whatever they may say now, with respect to 'the -declaration that they then made, I must say that that is conduct which does them the highest honour. They duly appreciated the feelings of this House, and what the opinion of the Crown was ; and they yielded at once, and abstained from belonging any longer to them.—( Cheers.) By so doing, they took away one of the chief objections ; they took away from the Imperial Mem bers of these Orange Societies, who were in the habit of meeting, the powers of their influence. They took away from the parties composing those Societies the belief that they were authorized by them to do scs.—( Cheers.) The Lord Lieu tenant of Ireland upon receiving the address of the House, and his Majesty's answer thereto, immediately issued a circular letter to the different assizes, desiring that there should be no prosecutions of persons who had joined Orange processions; in consequence of which a considerable number were dis charged. Although the superior members of the Orange Lodges had done their duty; and although the Lord Lieutenant had declared that it was his intention to forget the past, it does not appear there was any disposition in the Master Wardens to to retire from those processions. On the contrary, there was on the 12th of July preparations made for a procession greater than had ever been known before. The Lord Lieutenant met this promptly—he sent out magistrates, and took other means to have those processions met at every point; the consequence of which was, that 68 persons were convicted for having joined in those processions, and 428 more ordered to take their trial. .With respect to this the Lord Lieutenant thought it his duty to take means to ensure the suppression of these Societies ; and he felt bound to show a determination to put down these illegal processions.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, no person will doubt that in that course he acted rightly ; and I believe the result has been that no attempt has been made to form such processions since the last order of the Government prohibiting them. I trust, therefore, that the suppression of the illegal Societies of which I speak, may be fairly placed among the benefits resulting from the present Government of Ireland, and that the Secret Associations which have been found upon evidence to be so injurious to the peace to the empire, and so eapable of being perverted to such mischievous purposes, will no longer exist, and that that which this House has declared to be illegal has been effec tually put down. Sir, there is another point with respect to the distribution of patronage on which much observation has been made. You, Sir, will observe, that in the opi nion of Mr. Fox, which I have stated, ho said, that one of the objects which ho wished to see effected in the Government of Ireland, was a fair distribution of the emoluments among all classes of the people.—( Hear, hear.) That that had taken place before the arrival of Lord Mulgrave can hardly be asserted. I hold in my hand the list of the stipendiary magistrates appointed under former Governments, which states the religion of the diffe rent persons—( Hear, hear)—and although the number i s very considerable, yet there is only one professing the Rom a n Catholic faith.—( Cheers, and cries of " Hear, hear, hear. " ) In considering the number of Roman Catholics—pion of talent and education in that country—one can hardly think that this was a fair distribution of patronage. I have, Sir, also a list of the stipendary magistrates appointed since Lord Mulgrave's going to Ireland, and it appears that six of them were Roman Catholics and nine of them Protestants—( Hear, and cheers) 3 no very unfair d'stril;, - ,t certainly —and 0-mixing no wish to promote Roman Catholics in preference to Protes tants; but shewing that which I think it is right to spew, that a man, because he is a Roman Catholic, is not to be excluded from those offices to which by a solemn act of the Legislature, which you have sanctioned, he is entitled to aspire. —( Loud cheers.) I have also here a list of the appointments made by Lord Mulgrave, and stating the religion of the different persons so appointed ; but I decline going into it, because I think on the whole, that unless the question is raised, it is one which it is not desirable to enter upon.— (" Hear, hear, hear," from Sir Robert Peel.) The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite cheered ; but I think he is aware it is one of the charges made against our Administration.—( Cheers. ) It is one of those charges which are put forth amo i ng the public, and which are used to em poison the public mind.—( Loud cheers.) At the same time it is one of those charges (of which there are many) which is not brought forward on any occasion in either House of Parlia ment.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, having stated generally the conduct of Lord Mulgrave's Government—having stated the appointments he has made the measures he has taken—and having stated, also, some of the general results with regard to the prevention of crime, I come now to state, as I think I am bound to state—no notice having been given of it—l come now to make some observations upon the charges made against him in certain resolutions.—( Cheers.) Sir, when Mr. Fox stated what were the concessions which he wished to be made to the Irish, which included equality— equal rights and equal division of emoluments—he stated at the same time that these concessions would not give satisfaction.—He said, " not to the Aristocracy, for I will not call the miserable minority by so respectable a name and is that small miserable minority to be put in the balance against the happiness of a whole people ?"—( Cheers.) Now, Sir, it is that miserable monopolising minority--(immense cheer ing)—to which that name was so justly affixed by Mr, Fox —it is that same miserable minority which has not dared to bring forward any charge in Parliament against the Govern ment of Lord Mulgrave ; but which has met and passed certain resolutions containing charges against that Noble Lord, which if true, ought to procure his instant dismissal.—( Loud cheering from both sides. ) And although Parliament has been met a week—although Members of both Houses of Parliament were present at the meeting, at which these resolutions were passed—( Loud cheers)—not one of them has ventured to give notice that he will bring before Parlia ment the question of these high crimes and misdemeanours.— ( Cheers.) With all strangers carefully excluded—( Cheers) —with all opposition rigidly shut out—with the Orange flag streaming in the air—( Immense cheering)—they put and car ried their resolutions amidst the shouts of the multitude around them. It may be said that in this House no one ventured to bring forward the question, as they feared to encounter the strength of the support which Ministers receive in this House. This is a miserable argument, because those who have con ducted an opposition in this country have known and felt that when they had a right, and a strong cause—though they might have only sixty, or fifty, or forty, or even thirty—yet with such support they felt bound to bring forward their opposition; and I will ask by how many was Mr. Fox supported in his opposition ? By 80 against 250. This therefore is not a valid argument. But is there not another House of Parliament where the Hon. Gentlemen opposite are strong enough?—(Tremen dous cheering.) What is their power in that other House of Parliament? I have got here a pamphlet which purports to be the 28th edition of a speech delivered by a Noble Lord, in the other House of Parliament, at the close of the last session. --( Hear, hear.) A Noble Lord of great ability—l do not know whether this is his speech or not—but the pamphlet makes that Noble Lord say that in the House of Lords the Ministry is utterly powerless, and that its wishes have no effect in that House.—( Loud cheers.) If this be the case, why do these Cr . entlenien shrink from bringing their complaint before that House ?—(lmmense cheering.) They have uttered mat ters impeaching and derogatory to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and yet they dare not bring his conciuct before Par liament —( Renewed cheering, and cries or" Hear, hear.") Sir, it may be, after all, that they feel that, whatever their majority may be in the other House of Parliament, it is not a majority for such purposes.—(Tremendous cheer ing.) Sir, it may be that they feel that however they may gain the applause of their own packed meetings, that the House of Lords will not abet such accusations—(Renewed cheering) —but at least they should have the frankness and the candour to let this be known.—( Checrs.) Sir, I am inclined to think that this is the case from one of their own resolutions. I shall not take the trouble of reading many of them, but one of them refers to the nomination of High Sheriffs, and com plains of the Government neglecting the recommendation of the Judges. Now, Sir, I believe it happens, that in this year no persons recommended by the Judges to fill the office of Sheriffs have been refused; last year there were several cases of that kind. But .let me call your attention to what happens.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Lord Mulgrave comes to England, and takes his seat in the House of Lords. A question was then put on a trifling matter or two about Gore /Ones and Mr. Lee, but nobody anoved any accu sation on that subject. Lord Mulgrave made his answer ; and when he got up to speak a second time, he was obliged to apologise to their Lordships for keeping them from dinner, so little interest did the subject excite ; and such was the attendance of those who now brine. forward this as such a grave accusation.--( Loud cries of Hear, hear.") What do they do then? Why, they shrink from the ac cusation when Lord Mulgrave is present, and they meet their packed partisans in Ireland, and there they resolve that Lord Mulgrave has acted in a manner criminal and unbecom ing. Sir, I have given that party, although I. dislike their in tolerance, though I dislike their abuses, and though I dis liked their conduct in a former Government, yet I have given them credit in former days ; but I do think that such a pro ceeding as this is—permittin g Lord Mulgrave to take his scat in the House of Lords, and not then to repeat this accu sation, but afterwards, when the Session was long passed, that Members of that very House should meet and pass resolutions on the subject—this proceeding, I must say, does make my belief in their candour and disinterestedness altogether dis appear.—(Loud cheers.) Such conduct is a convincing proof of a want of candour, and these resolutions became in effect accusations, when they had no proof whatever to offer in sup port of them. Well, Sir, as to those resolutions, there are three or four at the beginning which are matters more for de rision and contempt than for serious consideration. One of these says, " that with the exception of the years 1641 and 1687, the Protestant Church was never exposed to so fierce a persecution."--( Laughter.) That there was a practical penal code in operation (which was worse because it was more undefined, and because it was not a legislative enactment) against the Protestants of Ireland.—(Hear, and laughter.) Sir, we know what a penal code is ; we know how the Irish lost their estates by the effect of a penal code, which subjected them to severe penalties ; we know that as the result of a penal code, a Catholic in Ireland formerly could not have a good horse without rendering it subject to be taken from him by a Protestant.—( Hear, hear.) We know, Sir, what a penal code is as a practical matter, but as to this undefined code I do not know how to treat it ; it resembles the gentleman who in a letter to the " Spectator" states that he has been reading num ber of medical books, and that having re a d a wor k asthma he imagined himself to be ill of asthma for three weeks—( Cheers) —and he then says, that having read a good treatise upon gout, he imagined he had got all the symptoms of gout but the pain.—( H ear , hear, hear, and laughter.) Now, Sir, these parties appear to me to have read the penal code which was applied to the Catholics, and then they imagine themselves to be subject to all the symp toms but the pain._( Hear.) All the symptoms but the pain and without any of the practical sufferings, and practical griev ances which the Catholics had to contend with, and thus in a country undisturbed by crime, and improving in condition, they come before the public with their:melancholy tale of imagin ary malady. The complaints regarding the loss of executive power, remind me of the lines of a living poet— " Call it madness, call it folly, You shall not chase my grief away ; There's such a charm in melancholy, I would not, if I could, be gay." —(Great laughter and cheers.) In another of the resolutions of this packed meeting, the 13th, they say that the patronage of the Irish Government, and its prerogative of mercy, h ave been abused to the furtherance of purposes injurious to the administration of the laws. Sir, I utterly deny this.— ( Cheers.) Is there any proof of it ? I say the prerogative' of mercy has always been used for the purpose of giving the people confidence in the laws ; and until some proofs are shown to the contrary, I rest on that general denial. Well, then, they go on in a very curious straits ' • they say that partisans have been placed in office—partisans have been pl ace d in ° ffice What, do the Gracchi complain of sedition ?—(Cheers laughter.) Indeed, Sir, I could produce cas es to show hand they are that have made appointments to office for the sakewo of partisanship.—( Hear, hear, hear.) I think, Sir, that t could show Lord Mulgrave cases which would throw Cheers)-_ any thing that is alleged against him far into the shade— by the conduct of those who now compl a i n of partisanship, but chief t but who have themselves made partisanship theground for appointment to office. I think that if any one had stood up in the meeting where these resolutions were passed, and bad told them of what those gentlemen themselves had done,_ he would bring a blush into their faces, and they would be the first ch b themselves to rescind their own resolutions. Sir, they have brought a further and a most serious charge But, against the Irish Government,—that gentle men have been appointed ne factious w hieh l e v el i appointed to the office of Assistant Barrister s pur poses. This was, indeed; a grave charge a proper ground of the impeachment of m theLord as Lieutenant—( Hear, hear)—if it could be shown that the Lord Lieutenant has in any instance appointed office, in order that they should violate their oaths, men n an t i o l register votes illegally, and for factious purposes.--(L ou d cries of " Hear, hear.") Sir, I have only heard of one case in which any imputation has been attempt e d to be cast upon an Assistant Barrister. This arose out of a case relating to the value of a holding. The c l a i mant of vote swore that his holding was of the value of 101. a ye as a and that he had in fact been offered 101. a year for ( Hear.) But a gentleman came forward and stated that he knew the holding was not worth 10/. a_ assistant-barrister asked him if he knew the hoginigr.? Thelle said that he did not.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He was asked did he know the holdings adjoinin g it? He acknow ledged that he did not ; but that he knew the ' gene rally, and could give an opinion of the value ofPtnhreshseveral holdings.—( Laughter.) Well, Sir, the assistant-barrister decided, and, I :think, very naturally, in favour of the claims, which was supported by the direct testimony of those who '. know the holding, instead of the v er y vague evidence ence against its value by the gentlemen who did not Cliow it at all. W e ll, Sir, there was immediately a m ee ti ng o f t h e q in er ag s is"tes, t lh ey e came to a resolution that at th e next quart would not invite the assistant-b a r r i s t er to presidc e s ss'on l a lpa hr The ground was no doubt thi s , th a t h e had believed t - he r s . e ) persons of mean condition, poor men worth not more than 10/. or 151. n "ear, and se* at non ht the statoroc•otc /Ind. , - on 1 11" 4, r , authar: ; that wd: the kind of case, and the only One 11.41 1 know of, in which this grave charge has been brought forward. It then goes on with a number of resolutions, and states that they will present an Address to his Majesty, praying that his faith ful subjects may not continue to be exposed to the attempts making to undermine the religion of the Established Church, nor persecuted for their attempts to preserve Ireland for his Majesty's Crown and his Majesty's successors. Sir, I re pudiate altogether the statements of this Gentleman. I say that his Majesty may trust to his Parliament. —( Cheers.) That he may trust to his Lord Lieutenant and to his faithful subjects on the country—that their zeal, their affection,- and their loyalty will preserve Ireland for his Majesty's Crown and his Majesty's successors, even though these gentlemen gave themselves no trouble about the matter.—( Tremendous cheering-, which lasted for some minutes.) There is one thing more, Sir, in these resolutions to which I shall now come. It is connected with the state of Ireland as differin g from the state of this country.—( Hear, hear.) It i s th reso lution in which they complain that an Association has been held in Dublin, and carried on for the seditious pur pose of resisting the increase of the Established Church.-- (Cheers.) Now, Sir, I must own that if I were to hear there was a General Association of Scotchmen met in Edin burgh, and that their meetings took place from week to week, and that they collected various sums of money and entered into various resolutions from time to time with respect to the Go vernment of the country, I confess that I should hear it with great regret; but I should always ask what was the cause—. and so I say with respect to Ireland. Sir, I very much regree that in Dublin, as I would in Edinburgh, that an Association should exist of the nature alluded to • but lam obliged to in quire into its cau ses; an d w h en I look to those causes, I find, as the forcible phrase of Lord Mulgrave states it, that it is the spawn of your own wrong.—( Cheers.) Sir, the Government of Ireland has been throughout the whole of its connection with this couttry a painful :übject for an English politician to con template. The glories of Elizabeth—the vigilant protection of the Cromwellian Government—the deliverance of our liberties by William lll.,—have been attended in Ireland with cruel wars—with the massacre of the people—with the enactment of penal laws, and with the violation of the treaty of Limerick. This was a painful subject, but it was hoped that a time would come when we could look upon them only as matters of history, and when we could say that the spirit, which in other times led to such treatment of Ireland, would be changed into one of mutual conciliation, of indulgence for each others' religious faith, and into a determination of the common defence of the rights and liberties of the entire people of the United Kingdom..--( Cheers.) Sir, I am sorry that it is not so, and that what the historian Hume has stated in noticing the reign of Elizabeth concerning Ireland, betrays a spirit which is not extinct even at the present time. He says that the English Commissioners, instead of inviting the Irish to adopt the more civilized customs of their Governors, they even refused, although earnestly solicited, to corn ' municate the privileges of the law, and marked them out as aliens and enemies. —(Loud and reiterated cheering.) Mr. Hume with that sound and philosophical spirit which be longs to everything he wrote, goes on to say, that thrown out of the protection of the ark, the Irish had recourse to the fastnesses, and instead of learning the civilized tone of their conquerors, they remained barbarous and savage.' Centuries elapsed after that, and I will give you an instance of a very different kind in the time of an ancestor of my own, who was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. You had been divided:in religion— in the succession to the Crown ; but about the middle of the last century it would appear as if the time was come when those bonds might be relaxed, when religion might cease to be a reason for persecution, and when attachment to a fallen dynasty might be forgotten in the security of the house of Brunswick. Sir, the Duke of Bedford in 1753 was of opinion and of a very strong opinion, that it might be permitted for Irish Roman Catholic priests to register their names, and then be allowed to perform the rites of their religion, and be placed on a footing with others of his Majesty's subjects. For that proposition he was thanked by the Deputies of the Roman Ca-. tholic bodies, and his name mentioned with honour by the Roman Catholic Prelates. —( Loud cheering.) But when. he came to the Council, it was a different matter. —( Hear, hear.) Ile said that persecution for religious opinions only added strength to the persecuted party—that the Crown would be stronger, and the country better enabled to carry on the war then waging with France, by having the assistance of such as were loyal of the King's Irish Roman Catholic sub jects The Council were opposed to any such modification, as they thought they would be repugnant to the British laws.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, that was the spirit which pre vailed in the Councils of Ireland up to 1752 ; it was a spirit p ro d uce d —w hi ch could not fail to producedistrust of the rulers both in England and Ireland—and distrust, if not hatred, of the laws, which the attempt to enforce sbnwed the people that it .vas not intended that they should have equal benefits to Ireland. Such was the indubitable effect of the severe and persecuting laws. Well, Sir, the time at length came when even those who had held these maxims—when those who thought it right to persecute and oppress the Roman Catholics—saw matters in a different light; but let me tell you—for I want you to see not only the effect of the policy of Government, when it was oppressive, and degrading, but also the policy of the Government, when such policy was to relieve the country—l will pass over other instances, and come to that one which made Lord Grenville say that it was seldom that justice was conceded to Ireland without such concession being made to fear. I will pass over other instances, and come to the law which admitted Roman Catholics to the elective franchise in the year 1793, and the law relative to them which passed in the year 1829; and I think that you will certainly see from these instances, that if on the one hand the Irish have been an object of terror, in whom you could place no confidence, that by the penal laws they were taught that it was better for them to put themselves in an attitude of strength before their prayers would be listened to. In 1792, an humble petition from the Roman Catholics was presented to the Irish House of Commons. Was it suffered to lie on the table, and ordered to be taken into. consideration ? By no means. It was scornfully and contemp tuously rejected. But the very next year, when we were in apprehension of a French invasion, and when a French war bad taken place, it was thought necessary to make some step towards conciliation. They took the step which they denied the year before, and it had not the appearance even of saying, " these Roman Catholics are good and loyal subjects, let us admit them to the privileges they seek." But they said, "wd cannot afford to throw away the strength of Ireland, and there fore wo must admit them." And now, Sir, with respect to the concession of 1829, I will read a passage which contains the sentiments of an eminent person in the other House of Parliament, and also the declaration made at that time by an Hon. Member of this House. In 1828 Lord Lyndhurst in reference to a speech which appeared to have been spoken by Mr. O'Connell, that the Roman Catholics of Ireland wanted to extort from the Legislature, by intimidation, the redress of their supposed grievances; but it was true the sword was not drawn openly—but it was ready to be drawn— if their Lordships were disposed to refuse to admit Roman Co tholics within what was called the pale of the Constitutions. Such was the declaration of ibis proud and eminent statesman to the House of Commons. He said you must not yield to threats—you must not yield to intimidation—( Hear, bear, hear)—but when the intimidation was made more plain the threat was made a little longer.—(Hear, hear.) And what was then the conduct of those who said they would not yield ? Why, the very unqualified and unconditional limitation which they had used induced them to yield the very year after. If that Statesman had been in the condition of the traveller in the fable, if the wind had not succeeded in taking off his cloak by the first gust, it would have been found that it would only have blown a little longer and a little stronger when he would havebeen deprived of his cloak; but he would not have had that easy victory which the traveller in the fable had. Well, hut what is the lesson that has been taught? What is she lesson that has been read to Ireland ? Are these things passed without mark ? What happened in the last year, and in the year before ? We heard nothing of Associations as long as this Municipal Corporation Bill which I shall move to-night was passing through the House of Commons,— ( Hear, hear, hear.) Ireland confided in the justice of the Legislature.—(Great cheering. )—There was no at tempt then to intimidate.—(Cheers)—There was no general meeting on the subject. It was only after Parliament is concluded—it is after their prayers have been rejected, and rejected not only with calm reasoning, but rejected with insult—( Loud and continued cheering)—l say it is only after the prayers of the people of Ireland have been rejected with insult that this General Association is founded, and has its existence.—( Renewed cheers.) Sir, can I wonder at such a thing ?—( Hear, hear)—can I wonder, when it has been successful on former occasions, that it should be resorted to on this ?—(Cheers.) Can I suggest a remedy ? What would be a remedy, think you, that this Association, composed of several Peers of the realm, of many Members of the House of Commons, and, as I have heard, of a fourth, but the Hen. Gentleman near me says, of a third of Protestants ? What, I say, wou ld b e a remedy ? Your remedy is to treat Ireland as you have treated Eng land and Scotland, as you have no Associations in Lon don or in Edinburgh. No, Sir, depend upon it that when fair equality is found to be the rule by which you intend to govern them, the people of Ireland will rely with confidence upon the deliberations of the supreme Legislature, and will take no other method of expressing their complaints.—( Hear.) I therefore say, Sir, that whilst I regret the existence of the Association, I cannot say that there was not a plausible motives for its formation—l cannot say that it is easy to suppress it..... (Loud cries of Hear.) There is, however, an easy wad of suppressing it, although I sho u ld d ece i ve you if I told. you that the Corporation Bill was all in all—that it would act as a panacea for all the evils of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Many and manifold are those evils, and many and manifold must be the remedies which the legislature, the executive, the magistrates, and the people of property in that country must apply to them---( Hear)—but I tell you this—if you pass this Corporation Bill largely and liberally—if you pass it in that manner, it will be taken as evidence of the spirit in which you are determined to legislate for Ireland, and there will be less difficulty, and no repugnance to future legislation.—( Cries of Hear, hear, hear.) It is a measure the principles of which are known—by it you apply a remedy which has been already tried—you give rights to mens whom you have no pretence for distrusting.--( Hear, hear.) I think, Sir, it was said of a great character of antiquity;. " that I hemktocles proposed what was profitable to Athe i ns r but what was unjust."--( Hear, hear.) Now I propose to a measure which will be profitable, as giving you the' hearts and the affections of the people.—( Hear, hear.) ) It will be profitable to you in promoting riches and welfare: in others; it will he profitable to you in tending to prodeset greater order, better administration, and a more general evel fidenee in your Government.—( Hear, hear.) But while it, }as all these effects of profit—while it has all these motives ex pediency—l especially recommend it to the House—l reeom mend it to Parliament—on this ground—that, I Beeteve IT TO BE JVS T. [The Noble Lord uttered the last six