The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

to admit with me Noble Friend, that the existence or the t supply of food ? And the prices might her wholly independent posed I mean to pass any blame en ibese Geottemee who are artiele.—( Hear, hear. ) It suittecd very much when kept for at the head of that association—far from it, I have no hesita- any great length of time; .it must, in point of fact, be dic tion in saying that this country, and that even those in that posed of without any delay. He could wish to have an House, owe a debt of gratitude to _the leaders of that party, and answer from his Noble Friend who was silting at the table— more especially to Mr. Cobden.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) (Lord Monteagle, we believe, was the Noble Lord alluded to) Yes, to Mr. Cobden. It is to his genius—to his indefatigable —and who would, very probably, speak on this question energy and perseverance, and not to Sir Robert Peel that we before their Lordships went to a division. The question which owe the present position of this measure. But to my Hon. he wished to ask his Noble Friend was this—What, in his opi. Friend, Mr. Cobden, we are all indebted for the achievement nion, would he the conduct of foreign countries towards Eng of this measure, which I believe to be one of the most imeort- land when the principles of free trade came into operation ? ant which has ever come under the consideration of a legislative Belgium, firence, and all the other countries of Europe, have body. I say we are indebted to him for the method hitherto invariably shut their ports against the admission of in whi c h he has conducted his triumph by means legitimate, foreign corn when they had had an abundant harvest.—( Hear, nay, unexcsptionable—no attempt to overawe the deliberations hear.) England was now called upon, by the promoters of of Parliament by the assemblage of vast multitudes. this question, to admit freely all foreign grain, whilst no other The Marquis of SALISBURY—Because he couldn't. country in Europe would imitate our example.—(Hear. hear.) Earl GREY—I say that we are indebted to him for this If they were living amidst independent nations, who were course of proceeding on this cccasion—a course which less been prepared to act upon the same principle, the plan of free trade dictated to him by high constitutional feeling. He h as b een wou ld b e intelligible.—( Hey-, hear.) If the principles laid able to convert the opinion of the nation—to show what the real down by those Noble Lords who had spoken in favour of this interest of the community is upon; his subject ; and co n sid er i ng measure were carried, he firmly believed that the people would • the time in which this great change of opinion has been be completely deceived and the country deluded. The princi effected, his success and triumph have been most miraculous. pies of political economy, as laid down by those Noble But, nevertheless, I stiil admit that the existence of the Lords, were completely fallacious. They speak of people as Anti-Corn-law League is an evil—it is an evil, b ec au s e if they were mere machines. He would now quote the such a body never can exist, except it has been first opinions of a writer on political economy, which he was sure created by a sense of wrong and injury existed. And, my would be received with the greatest respect; and although Lords, it is only a grievance which could have created so for- Noble Lords who had spoken in the course of this debate had midable an organisation—but when once created, the removal quoted the speeches of statesmen, he was not about to do so—he of the grievance will not remove the desire to remove the was about to quote the calm opinion of a man penned at home. organisation.—( Hear, hear-) And I fully agree with the son- The writer to whom he had alluded was Lord John Russell.— tlments so eloquently expressed by my Noble Friend in his able ( Hear, hear.) He knew that the opinions of that. Noble Lord speech, that the crop of political power is too sweet, when would be received with the greatest respect.—(Hear, hear.) once tasted, to be readily relinquished. Such a sentiment is Lord John Russell, in his treatise on political economy, stated perfectly true, and I have no doubt that there will be a great that "political economy" was an awful expression—( Laugh anxi ?ty, even af t er the remov a l of the evil, to keep up this ter) — and that the Legislature was oft e n called upon to decide formidable organisation. I have no doubt that such will be questions which involved the immediate happiness—perhaps the the fact. It is consistent with past experience. But what is very existence—of millions of people, by the rules of a science the inference you ought to draw? Is it that you ought to which changed from day to day.—(Hear, hear.) Notwith keep up th e gr i evance w hi c h fi rs t c r e ated this Franken- standing th ose aw f u l di fferences of political economists, their stein ? Do y ou no t cons id er t h a t the sense Lordships were called upon to pass this measure, and to regu of the injustice which they have suffered, aggravated as it will late the affairs of this great country in such a way as, in his be by its continuance, by the feelings that their hopes in re- humble opinion, would bring thousands of its people to irre moving it have been disappointed, will greatly increase the trievable ruin.—( Hear, hear.) He would take the liberty of power of such a body ? I say, on the contrary, that we ought, again quoting the printed opinions of Lord John Russell on without the least possible delay, to repeat the l a w which has another part of this subject. That Noble Lord said that if all given rise to their complaints; and that, my Lords, is my great nations were at peace, if they had the same currency, the objection to one portion of the Bill, by which we are going to same weights and measures, it would then be easy enact its continuance, though even for a modified time—it gave for the Legislature of this country to act upon theoretical an excuse for the keeping alive of agitation. I should like to principles, but the frequent occurrences of war, the breaking of do away with all that part of the measure which will give an all national treaties which have taken place from time to time, excuse or a ground to those parties who may be desirous to rend er suc h a su bj ect much more difficult than any problem in keep up the organisation; and, theref o r e , 1 look forward to the range of mathematics. For instance, it was very easy to say the power which is vested in this House to amend the decrees that corn ought to be admitted free, or any other articleof corn of the House of Commons, and I hope that we will amend it in merce, and that if our farmers could not grow corn as cheap as this particular. But my Noble Friend, almost in the same foreigners, they ought to let it alone.—( Hear, hear, and breath, went on to describe, in language most refilled, the laughter.) Hut the Legislature could not deal with a question power of this House. He said that we were constituted of such vast importance, en those principles. But those were for the purpose of placing a salutary obstacle to rash the principles on which the promoters of this measure had and inconsiderate legislation, and that it was not the called upon the Government to act.—( Hear, hear ) They had practice of your Lordships to liberate public opinion.— been told that many millions of capital had hcen laid out by (Hear, hear.) That was the language his Noble Friend thousands of people in the improvement of the land of this had expressed in his usual felicity of language—that we are country, and yet they were called upon to adopt this measure, placed as a restriction upon hasty legislation. but that we are which would deprive those people of the benefit of all the capital not to oppose ourselves to a continuous and deliberately formed thus expended. They had been told, too, that the taxes im stream of public opinion. It is, therefore, of the deepest con- posed on the proprien rs of the soil of England were heavy, .sequence to us that we should distinguish the difference of a whilst on the other hand they were exceedinely light, and yet hasty and inconsPerate expression of opinion, and of a calm it was contended that the British farmer should be compelled to and deliberate conviction on the part of the public, before we compete with the foreign farmer, under such disadvantageous set ourselves against it. It is perfectly clear in the one case circumstances as these.—( Hear, hear.) They were called that we must give way, and by so giving way we must surely upon to oecide the fate of this country at the mere impair cur proper authority. My Lords, in this case, there- caprice of a few speculating politicians.—( Hear hear. ) • fore, it is our duty to endeavcur to determine whether the de- As he had before said, this was not a mere question of sire of the people—of the House of Commons—as ex- a few shillings being paid for corn eith,er less or more, pressed by their votes, is a deliberately formed but in it were involved the happiness and the social relations public opi n i on , or w h e th er th e vo i ce o f t h e noun- of almost every family in the United Kingdom.—( Hear, hear.) try has been expressed in favour of hasty legislation, Our colonies would feel the shock, and he thought that if their and what are the symptoms which lead to the inference that Lordships revolved these facts in their minds, they would find the desire of the nation rests upon hastily formed opinion. that the dangers with which this measure would be attended The principles on which this Bill is founded were brought he- weree incalculable.—( Hear.) He ventured to predict that ffore the public 80 years ago, when the petition was signed in the consequences of entire free trade would be the ruin of this avour of a free trade in corn. Adam Smith, in his work, has country. Their present supply of corn was quite enough, and laid down, with a force of reason which cannot be contested, it to happened that the very time when corn under this mea the great principle of free trade. That principle had found its sure would be imported in abundance into this country, would way amongst the philosophers of every civilised country in the be when we least of all wanted it—when, in fact, we had were; and it had found its way to the c l ose t, b ut i t was l ong abundant harvests.—( Hear, hear.) The price would no doubt be statesmen and merchants would consent to its in some instances be as low as 255. per quarter, and such validity. By d egrees th ey b egan to d o so. At first cheapness would, he felt convinced, be attended with great the authority of the principle which had been received danger to the country. He maintained that by the sliding es infallible by the philosophers, began also to be received scale the prices of corn had been preserved in a very steady and admitted in a hesitating and doubtful manner; but as dis- condition. During the three years that it had been in exis cussion went on—as the good effects of it were experienced tence, the price of corn per quarter had been 503., 515., and day by day, new converts came over to the justice, and to the 51s. 10(1.—( Hear, hear.) There was, therefore, no reason to acknowledgment of the justice, of the principle. My Lords, say te that the sliding-scale had acd reudicially to the nterests in my own memory how great has been the change on this of • this country. He ad voca t e d a reasonable protection to agri subject. Nineteen years ago, when I first voted upon this culture in 1818. Sines that period their Lordships question in the other House of Parliament in favour of the might be aware that he had been no advocate of any principle on which this Bill is based, I voted in minorities, extravagant or absurd system of protection to agrieul sometimes as small as 15, and never exceetang 50. My Lords, ture ; on the Contrary, his object had always been to we now see year by year how great has been the progress of regulate the admission of corn into this country on the principle of free trade ; within the last few years we have such principles as were reasonable, and calculated to further certain evidence how deeply the sympathies of the people are the interests of the people at large. He had in fact voted for woun d up in its ultimate triumph, and we see that the prin- a mitigation of the corn-laws many years ago. He voted for ciple of restriction cannot be much l onger ma i nta i ned, for we a reduction of the prohibitory duties in th year 1842. H e now see her Majesty's Minist ers at l ast com i ng forward and voted for the Canadian Corn Bill, and in fact every reasonable manfully avowing a complete change in their opinions. relaxation and mitigation of the corn-laws had received his I, for one, my Lords, give them credit for the manner in warmest support.—( Hear, hear.) But he could scarcely call which they have avowed their opinions upon this question ; the present corn-laws protection to agriculture, and he could and I regard it as an earnest, and sincere, and a candid not vote for this measure, because by it they would be over avowal. And when I find that that avowal has been the re- stepping the boundaries of reason and justice. The present suit of the inability of that party to resist any longer the ex- was a case of a totally different description to those to which he pression of public opinion in reference to this measure, Ido had just alluded.—( Hear, hear.) The object of this measure say, my Lords, that I cannot but regard it as a strong proof of was not to regulate the affairs of this country on reasonable, the policy and good sense of yielding to the expression of pub- prudent, and just principles ; its object was in fact to deprive lie opinion. It may be said by some Noble Lords that there the country of that happiness which it had hitherto enjoyed were not sufficient reasons fur some persons changing their under the system of protection. The measure militated against opinions, and becoming advocates of this measure, or that the that which had existed at all times and in all conntries.—( Hear, treasons which had been adduced afford anything like a fair hear. ) Their Lordships might be aware that there was no justification for that change. Now, my Lords, I beg to say, period in the history of this country when there was not sonic that it is not my purpose, nor is it my wish, to make any in. regulation with regard to the admission of foreign corn._ inquiry into the reasons by which others were led to hold the ( Hear, hear.) The British Legislature had always thought-- view s an d enterta i n the opinions they now do upon this qtt ts- ev en f rom t h e t i me o f t h e conquest—proper to deal with that Lion. I do not wish to know whether they have taken into subject ; and they must recollect that during the last 150 years consideration what may be the consequences of this change of much capital had been invested in the great business of farming. opinio n i n the year 1839, as compared with the year 1841 ; but and tbat by th e a id o f t h at cap i ta l t h e land of this whatever their opinions may h ave b een upon the subect, country had been much imiiroved. MI that capital had been it is quite apparent that circumstances have occurred expended for the worthy purposes of fertilising the English of late years, which render it impossible for any rational man soil ; but if this measure were passed, the thousands and thou• to entertain the same opinion now. I can tell this House that sands of pounds that had been so expended would be rendered this sacrifice of opinion has been well considered out of doers— useless and lost. Of all authorities on political questions in out of doors turn are of the same opinion, in reference to the this time, he had always been mitre disposed to pay the corn-laws, as those entertained by the majority of the other greatest respect to the opinions of Mr. Huskisson, and particu House. There was a time when the manufacturers of this larly on the subject of free trade and protection to agriculture. country were of the same opinion as are the protectionists at Mr. Huskisson said--( A Noble Lord—" What is the date ?") present, and, let me ask, were not those very men amongst the 1844. He stated that nothing could be more dangerous to the majority of those who originated this very measure? I say safeguard and tranquillity of the country than to admit foreign that the great mistake of our commercial policy, as is apparent corn free from all regulations. Almost all had c h ange d t h e i r anthis corn-law, has been owing to them. When I first opinions or, this subject, and yet they were called upon to adopt entered upon public life, so strung was the feeling in favour of 'uch a destructive measure as this at the suggestion of men Protection that when Mr. Huskisson introduced his measure who had themselves changed their opinions on the subject of for the repeal of the duties on foreign shipping, he was re- f r ee trade.—( Hear, hear.) He did not know when Mr. Hus garded as a traitor to the interests of that branch of the com- kisson died, but he thought it was in 18:9—(A Noble Lord— pierce of this country. Yet, strange to sa y, th e corpora- "In 1830")=Mr. Huskisson, however, at that time advocated lion of Liverpool, the corporation of that very town of a re d uct i on i n what was called the protective duties, and he said, which Mr. Huskisson was th e represen t a ti ve , are th e ~ It has, I understand, been quoted against me, that I hold an people who now come forward with an almost opinion that England ought not to depend too largely upon " an ini 9 ns dem an d f or a t o t a l repeal of the corn-laws. Th er e- ot h er countr i es f or i ts supply of corn I maintained that fore I do say, in -- y Lords, th 't the proposition for the repeal of opinion in 1815, and I maintain that opinion now."—(Cheers.) those l aws has not been the result of any rash, or inconside- He also said, " I am anxious to render this country, corn rate, or hasty measure of legislation, but is one which has mercially as well as politically, independent of foreigners, and I been the result of rational and well-considered public opinion. therefore think that it is not prudent to suffer the free ad- And that your Lordships will pass this Bill by an overwhelm- mission of foreign corn into this country." Every wise states ing majority is no less my firm and constant expec- man, in every nation of the world, maintained the same opi tation than it is my most firm, earnest and anxious hope. nions because they well knew the d anger o f a ll ow- Lord ASHBURTON sa i d h e could assure their Lordships tug ' their country ever to be dependent on that he had not risen for the purpose of making anything like foreigners for the supply of food. -- ( Hear, hear.) a long speech upon this most important subj ec t, f o r the best Then as respects the objection of the Noble Earl, he might ask possible reason, that though he considered it important beyond whether the cautions were at all likely to be effectual with any other measure he had yet seen introduced into this House rts sect to the for *: , ri countries to which he had alluded, and power of Idressing , yet he did not feel that he possessed the their Lordships at any length upon it ; he would, a t t h in t c p illing in the licensing e' system of Napoleon, he thought that endeavour to be as brief as possible in the few remarkseheefbiraeri a due regard ought to be paid to the effects of that system. to make, and he begged to assure their Lordships that he jetted Cheers.) tr tha h t at the period to which allusion had been made, this this ecyardrad_been labouring under a heavy debt, which debt y had to pay, That system of licensing had in the observation which should in the slightest degree partak - e first instance been imposed for the period of three years, but of a personal charactere . He would endeavour to confine him self, i n the few observations with which he would trouble their it should be recollected that Napoleon had issued a command Lord s hip, to what he conce" h e e dwould be time general political that the restriction should hold for five years.—(Cheers.) results of the passing of this Let them only look at the variations of prices which had oe position of this country The Noble Lord as t who . had just sat down, asked what curved during the several years in which this licensing system . measure. would become of this country or of the present Government if bad prevailed. In 1809, the pri l c B e o ° 2 f , a it qu w ar a t s e , r 2 o s f . ; wh in ea l t B Las , this m eas ure should be rejected, .but that (Lord Ashburton) Mtn ; in 1800, it was 1003. ; in begged to remind their Lordships, _it was not deal it was 106 s. per quarter. The average of those years was 3s. 10d. a bushel. What then was the object of this sty Was it to put money into the pockets of the Frenchme'r; the result to any Government that) It tiws astionuostethweabsustthoesdseoalf with this measure.—(Hear, hear. change, or what change such thing, for it was evident that notwithstandin g all these s ? teru N o? this House to consider whethers eefhrhffi, restrictions, er7 , i chequer, nit the b e, , rF corn arnseenfiet h h e a vi d eei odr b ure e iln e dt ot n ri e sbt. continued he at Nwi.i .hoo t an o ut g b ht e ht t p eh o ne u fs poured into was t hisetrhmeEsn object,gla n nx d o any he result of the passing or the was to take place in any party, a . rejection of this measure, and therefore the h e would a snayy suchtbat their con. Lordships would disposed of it, irrespective i the the case? Wh q er. But on the announcement of the giti f et a os ct ow , f what was . siderations.—( Hear,. hear.) This B 1 had come before their humble t to regulate en d had supply of corn w y o , ul h d er h e e w e a q s .a a l g t r o ea t t he ou l t i c e r c y es a s he th th e e t r im th e e . Lordships in what he should calla h v a e n ry a Bill been designated as nothing - more t The manufacturers were .sion uin ars. His Noble Friend must trade in corn ; but when it came to be w h e ie ll h co a n e s u id h e i r e e ff d e , et he v b e e ry lieved it would be found to be one remember the discutook place when they were both speech of his Memters of the House which tr the great chaages in this country. After all the attention he had of Commons The motion was met been able to give it, particularly aft Noble Friend on Tuesday night—tonsil eying also the present with a cry of universal laughter.—(Laughter.) He would position of this comatry, and the power it possessed of paying merely show the state of feeling which existed at that period, to the its debts, he should say that nothing but . e ulty an d danger to am:(the ofm etzelycoaudndtureyedatthe insta . nc d e , t a o hd sh o o f w sh v o v w h i a n t g was the him as the result of the passing of this measure . that perm ' opinion •what was likely appeared to hear.) He might be mistaken in the ;Sob,e Lord the country.—(Hear, . . effect o an views he lied taken, but, as he had said before, the result of th e present period, and what would be the f ante of foreign countries to introduce their corn free of duty allow all the attention he had been able to give it was, that he had an • been compelled to come to no other conclusion than that he i n to this country. But, did they suppose that this would be a had already mentioced- His views upon this question were sa fe scheme ? In his opinion this could not be the case, and the result of forty years' experience, during which time he he believed that his Noble Friend would be totally wrong in that the supply of foreign • had ample oppornanities of judging of the results of great legis tne supposition 'alive experiments. In the year 1815 he was a strenuous op- all satisfy the . necessities of this country. They were going to P the population, and to reduce the returns ponent of any great alteration in the corn-laws, _ . at a time diminish the righis of He in the production of future years. Whether they did this con when the protectino price of corn was at 80s. then opposed it ' because he considered it as a stantly or no t a ll was not the consideration. Let them wild and ill-considered measure • and it was rather remark- look to the case of America, for in whatever way they looked able that his Noble Friend, to the House, wash who had ' introduced this measure upon the statesmen of the present day, they would have,etpeci dvocat es the ally to look to the condition of the country.—(Cheers.) I hen if ' had, of the most strenuous a Opposition then matter state o o f f the finance,co country house had actually beer tuendered by the mob.—( and l the result of which was hear.)that hip they were to look what was n th Now just let them ex am ' Hear' during the war, when the country, to a great extent, was de this measure had been a, w o hat the grounds were upon which _. dof foreign supplies. He might, indeed, adduce the in stated that the passing o f "°' thiscamted. Some Noble Lords had price of the state of the corn trade during last September. dispensable by reason of the ensure had been rendered in- stance but right to adduce this example, because it had a Ireland, but he should saygreat distress that that that prevailed in It was to the question in hand, and because it was d—i Hear 1 1 distress had been very material reference greatly aggravate, e , ear).—agg should of showin what was really the case as conviction that tb i s was not a measure hitch confess his own an important means adduce the case of Spain as a ctn. for that ev and he might thing like a remedy il.--c Hear, , ewaoruld afford any- respects corn, . Cheers() —but thus much he might eerfectly absurd t h ) He would roboration of his views— also say that it was i . n 0 suppose that the • erfectly correct in stating that bave afforded the oening say, that the calculator was pof the ports would necess this exclusive •llings a quarter during other hand it b I d h had Ili state tat the result of th e are, relief. On t l the avers , e average was 105 shi . Id excuse his being Lordships would of the ports would be a very great alarm ; mi the gantry system. He trusted their . nestion try • . he introduced this q . . that was met by tho advocates of the Government , desultory in the way in which measure c attend to was another declaring that the po•rts would be opened for a very si lo t • ( Cheers. ) The first thing that he would r time. heel went on the as Now, let him ask s.vliat reasons had been adduced against such theory of the Noble Earl. The Noble • ? The experiment of opening the port s had beenfallacy prosperity sumption that there was truth in the that a proceeding always attended had states! that tried half-a-dozen times before, and he would state one occa • nded on low prices of food. He when • which th at measure had been resorted to, namely, were there were high prices of food the labouring population mon upon uskisson. He (Lord Ashburton) •re generally in a state Ofprosperity. This reminded under the auspices ,ef Mr. II hi. in theyear 1825, mof the state of things . was now speaking of what took place , mi want of innsne during the war, when the that year a s tr oll , apprehension was entertained that there the de of of p Y w as alleged as a sufficieut reason for would have been a see arcity of provisions, and corn then was at the money borioruwveidi°d". 'But it should be recollected that 725. ; and the result of this apprehension MS. that Mr. Huse the prices of the war weruring the war had to be paid when kisson brought ins Bill by which to enable the Government solutely obliterated from tehneot only reduced in name, hut ab to let out the corn then in bond free of duty, and he believed him of the railway schemes wc,ir,titnziercial code. This reminded it would not be disputed that that statesman was one of the or public attention ; he meant the railways lately engaged so much le railways in which wisest, ablest, and best of those England ever possessed. In skilled labor enjoy of th e country was to th e least the month of May. 1825, there were 400,0(0 quarters of wheat protect i on, and to enjoy a full sh are of the the full b ene fi t o f in bond, and Mr.. Huskisson proposed to let that quan- been reaped by the ot h er c l asses. But, p s r e o e sp fo erity whi c h h a d City into consumpti.a a to meet th e a pp rehended scar c it y , but prosperity aro se , an d w h at were the sympto ms of sof twhhatat this of limey on se ich i n duinc , so lire had adopted the precaution h . the country was so earnestly con pros. it was like the . • gratulated? letting it out onl vin such tuantities as would m ee t the appre- In his opinion prosperity of the railw - aman:a 1 mischief would be sensibly felt as to of the present day, when many men made their B,t 00s. "tended s •'t . wit :lc n' cal ci y , the result. But winat was the present Government going to or 10,0001 . a year—when many whe mere new enjo t in g t h e do ? They had ninv nearly 2, 000 , 0 .: 0 of quarters of' corn in comforts ard the luxuries of life . hem their di rection of bond, an d the r, taint of this passing of this measure would lie railways, and advancing an artificial e i a sperity w hi c h h ad no to let that enorn ions quantity of grain in upon the count, y, at soundness ie it, notwithstanding the report of the Noble Lord. e lime too when there was a fair prospect of an abundant gar- It appeared, then, that there were three cases i n w hi c h this ve 't• -- --( Hear, h i t ar.) The Noble Lord then proceeded to question might be considered. There was, firstly, the case of re ad s extracts f ron a th e ev id ence o f a Mr. Banfiehil, in reference the protection of native intluM;y ; there was, secondly, th e " 3 , the present siti en o f th e agriculture of this country, in protection of home-grown corn against foreign countries ; a n d which the N p o ' h. In Lord contended that there were strong there was, thirdly, the protection of the cotton manufactures. 1 4 "fs of the impolic of this measure.—( Hear, hear. ) Then, again, there were three charges on the land. There Bust now as t . • future. - Y the y 'the coursecmt the charges on land which had a particular refer of th o the Suppose came, m 'n charges which th• ree years, to a system of entire free trade—must not ence to this question. Now, there were certain is country the: 1, be dependent upon foreign countries for its particularly affected the land, the truth of which could only be ascertained by experience. That experience he believed he had Pt''ine'l. aril the truth which resulted was. that the land had been fought with the lerfect understanding that it was bought with the incumbranres upon it. ( Hear.) But the argument was as to what was the amount of the charges upon the land, but he must at the same time state what his feeling wasrespecting these various declarations. For him self, he allowed that he was dazzled with the declaration of Mr. Maculloch. He would adduce the evidence of Mr. Maculloch, than whom no higher authority could be adduced. The Noble Lord then read a statement from Maculloch, to show that the facts were as he had stated. The Earl of CLARENDON—What is the date? Lord ASHBURTON—The date is 1814.—(Laughter.) A mistake had evidently been made, but as Lord John Russell stated, that mistake was fatal. ( Cheers.) Lord John Russell had proposed a fixed duty of ss. a quarter. Whether that was right or wrong, it was perfectly evident that the agri culture ought to be protected, and that the demand ought to be rendered independent of the supply from foreign competition. But it was thought that by a little stimulation the parties would be made to provide the supply. Now the question was, whether the farmer could be stimulated to p . . - ovide the supely, without foreign interferen ce , an d t h e ru l e used was, that as thee - knew what - could be got out of a bad horse by a pair of spurs, they should use the stimulus of the spur in order to ascertain what they could obtain from that source. From what he could understand, he would venture to assert that the returns would give the valid price of the produce, tut it appeared that the prise depended on the value of the produce, and that when the returns were below certain amounts the number inclined to obtain farms was such that there was no reduction of rent when the farms were let. He thought that the minister was a bold man who would venture to assert that corn could not be produced on the continent at a cheaper rate, when of equal quality, than it could be produced in this country. From a return of the several markets, it appeared that where there were equal charges on the land, there were also equal prices. And when the Noble Lord cited this principle, he might well adduce the supply of food from Norfolk. But there was another from Prussia. But what was the statement? Why, that Prussia and England were on equal terms, although an attempt had been made to place England and Ireland on the same level. The Noble Lord had said that what was a pro tection to England was a protection to Ireland also. In the latter country it appeared that the charges were laid upon the land, amounting to 2d. per acre. This included the land tax, the poerelaw, and every possible charge. Yet he was bound to acknowledge that there was only a problematical statement to this effect, and it should be recollected that it was a general understanding that the manure produced on a farm should be consumed upon it, and that by this means the whole of the advantages obtained from the farm would be expended on the soil of which it was composed. It should be recollected that this land could not be improved, or the land preserved, without the value of the stock it had upon it being taken into account. This was the great deficiency, and no law could possibly provide a reme d y, as h e wou l d conten d . Th e next popular error to which he would allude was that which would make the price of labour to be apparently independent of the price of food, and that as bread was cheap the price of labour would be low. To this he would only adduce the information of the Parliamentary reports, and to these he might add the advantage of his own knowledge. It appeared from the reports of the Parliamentary inquiries that the labourers in the north of Europe were in the habit of enjoying meat once a we. k. He had heard that there was a report that in Ireland eggs were sold at sixpence a dozen, but the grand difficulty was to ascertain where the sixpence was to come from. The consequence was that eggs were scarce.—(Cheers.) Now, it appeared by this simple allusion that the price 'of food did depend upon the price of labour, and that the elements of food, population, and laldeur are the mass elements of income, and that on in come the price of feied depended. If they were to take a purely agricultural district, as for instance the east of Lin colnshire, they would have a clear reason for the grounds of their conclusion. He was aware that some objection might be oC.rnl to this, but thus much he would assert, that where the lands were culivated by manual labour there the price of labour might be readily ascertained.—( Hear, hear.) If a gradual means were used he believed that there could be no difficulty, but where the price of labour was dependent upon the produce of the soil, the price of wheat was a main element of the consideration before their Lordships, and that the remuneration of labour would be ruled for some years to come by the reward which industry was able to obtain for its exertions. What would he the immediate consequences of this measure? Why, that the landlords of the country would suffer, and that immediately through them the farmers, and ultimately the labourers would be injured. That was the kind of language that those who were opposed to this measure held out ; and supposing, as he apprehended, that would be the result, he was of opinion that the language was completely justifiahle. The tenant first of all began to suffer a little, and then began to apply the screw, and the labourer, not understanding this sort of political economy, and being sanctioned by the Parliament, would naturally resist any reduction of his wages, and resist any attempts to deprive him of any portion of his necessaries. That would be the operation of this Bill, always .it2posing that the House sanctioned the proposed alteration of t upon corn. He wished to address a few observation: t., tire Right Reverend Bench, that the clergy would be affecie,i, and their incomes would be reduced—at least those of not a fixed tenure. What had been stated by a Noble Lord on a former occesion was quite tree. That nothing could be more critical than the poli tical conduct of the parochial clergy of this country on the pre sent measure. If this measure was not intended to diminish the price of corn, what then was the meaning of the Bill ? (Cries of " Hear, hear.") Very little foreign corn was ad mitted except in times of scarcity. Every clergyman of the Church of England would be reduced in his income, in the porportion of two-sixths, so that the man with 300'. as s year would have his income reduced to 2001.—( Hear, hear.) And even supposing the position of those who advocated this measure to be true, and that no diminution in tithes would ensue, why the clergymen would be no better of.—(ldear, hear.) Their Lordships must be perfectly well aware, that if they let the staff go out of their own hands, they virtually exposed them selves to the attacks of those without and left themselves com paratively defenceless. It was a mischievous thing to set up the cry of cheap bread, and that mockery of the poor man's com fort, when it was basket and supported by the advocacy of a 11ember of the Crown.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") If the Ministry make experiments at all, let them trifle with the protection of things of comparatively inferior import ance, and if they found the removal of protec tion on minor articles were attended with advantage, then their Lordships' House would be more justified in coming to a resolution which would sanction the operation of the present measure. It was his belief that distress in the country would always be found, mainly attri butable to some difficulty in the means of circulation. When the currency got into any difficulty it would cause nine-tenths of the distress that might abound. He could show, in fact, that the distress which has existed in the manufacturing dis tricts could be distinctly traced to circumstances which had directly to do with the direction of the monetary system. He would call the attention of the House to the probable effects which this measure would have on the colonies. The people of the Canadas were ready at a moment's notice to throw off the English yoke. Their Lordships knew what the French `eelings were, and all that feeling of nationality the people of Canada possessed. They were all to France by ties of blood, and by a long formed connexion, and if the measure were carried, it would, by rendering England dependent en them for a supply of corn, render them independent of us, and give them an excuse for annexing themselves and their interests to the power of France. That was the opinion of two French gentlemen, H. le Capitaine and M. Paphen, who were high authorities. In the Lower Canadas the French influence was predominant over the inhabitants, and the British Government had no more right to that country titan the French or any other continental nation possessed. It might, perhaps, be well to argue that this measure would be a benefit for all the world; but were they to become the advocates of the human race, and to be con cerned with the affairs of all mankind? He thought the more prudent course would be to be concerned with only our own affairs.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl who proposed this subject told the House that all Europe was going to fol low the example set them by the free-traders of England. The measure met with great praise and admiration, but every one said that it did not exactly suit them. It was not in the nature of things that every country was to assimi late and hold the same opinions with regard to these points. And even let all the world be of one opinion with respect to their free trade operations, he questioned very much whether all the world would be any better for those opinions.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The eatire of the civilised world was divided into states, provinces, and kingdoms, placed under dif • ferent governments, and it was very desirable that, as far at possible, they should have mutual opinions on different points, and a general amalgamation of interests, as it were, to pre. vent war, and conserve the good of mankind. What would be the result if the principles of free trade could be universally established? This country might become a large manufac turing shop, bnt its a gr i cu lt ura l i n t erests wou ld lie neglected, and foreign' countries would laugh in their sleeves—this coun try, being dependent on them for the supply of f.kid—at the threatened destruction of boasted British independence and the dissolution of its interests. That which was desirable for all countries was, that they should have every description of in dustry and of international commerce, so that each in its own resources would not be left wholly dependent upon another. The aristocracy of that House, and the great gentry in the country, would be interested in preserving the protection in which they bad so long and so eminently flourished. IL however their Lordships should be of opinion, notwithstanding the great prosperity which had attended the system of protec tion, that the interests of the country require the concession of their cherished opinions they would yield it, although, perhaps, with regret, yet with the hope that it would be fur the benefit of the country. But do not let their Lordships think that any such anticipated benefit would be derived from this measure or that its consequence would tend in any way to the general interests. It was a great mistake to suppose that any measure which had for its object the distraction of those prin ciples which had raised the country to its present paramount position would result otherwise than in universal dissatisfaction and contempt for the authors of the measure. (The Noble Lord, who throughout was almost inaudible in the gallery, sat down amidst loud cheering from all parts of the House.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he rose in that stage of the debate, which was now the third, and he hoped the last night of the debate—( Cries of " No, no," and " Yes, yes")— to express his sentiments on the measure now under considera tion. He should promise them that he would not detain them tor a long time in the observations he was about to make, and he should be extremely sorry that any Noble Lord should be prevented giving his opinion before their final decision was taken. The Noble Lord who had just sat down need not be very much alarmed that he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) was going to enter into any exposition of the " awful subject" of political economy, which he asserted had been so described by Lord John Russell twenty years ago, when a young man,_ and before he held office und er t h e C rown. Th at Noble Lord was reps esented as describing political economy as an awful subject then, and the Noble Lord who just sat down represented it to be an awful subject now. He ( Lord Ashburton) assured the Noble Lord that he need not be alarmed now that he was about to enter into any consideration of that subject, except in as far as it was connected with the present question. In rising, however, hi, would not profess, precept rather in answering the h a Nb n o hi l s e e L x o a r m d p ( l e L o i r n d Ashburton), abstainingt on ), from mofollowenteric his g a t i h that t did the consideration not intot theim p t b l re burdens (a p i en r nt e s s s e ou n ab t ge land.cut ques tion, of • • justice to the proprietors of land. he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) t i I n i io t en o ; anyoa would dd subjectel,s,leave ce that subject—that opinions he he had never more strongly e view it in any other ques tionsensieitilitaNnobalseaFden always held—opinions which t in h u o s u t g b h e h a e w c a o r u e ld ot n . their Lordships H ouse.—(H e ar , this question before P s the subject, 11, hear.) But, important as wa asserted than when advising proceedinp im plored them to draw their attention from it now, and H con l l , ected ( He with ar fix it on th a t quest i on b e f ore t h e H o use, which his Noble v Friend h a d so correct l y d escr ib e d as one o f the greatest, not the greatest subject that ever commanded their consideration. But the question which was now before them had been the subject of debate and discussion for many years past in and out of Parliament, and a u n s d by assemblies in every district, town and village in the country. The question, therefore, did as sume somewhat of a new aspect, as presented to their Lord mlloeustsye:s G Tl:e ve g r u n e m st e i n o t n a a t nd the lik p e r , e y s i e se nt .. t a im nc e ti c o a n m ed e bbefore, Lord ships' a Bill majority of the other that f hadpari received Parliament.—( ent,_ the sanction e s it a r n , c h t i e o ay n r her se The Noble Lord (Stanley), who I as been ' absent from the House this evening until now, told ' them that that decision on the Corn Bill should not operate on their Lordships' minds, and he set the de c i s i on o f the same House in 18-2 against their decision now, The_Houso of Commons of 1842 against the House of Commons of 1844. But unless they were to suppose that the House of Commons had become servile and infirm is four or five years, ne lot n it know cviy tfmd,ci ion now come to, which had resulted from matare deliberation and inquiry on the subject, should be set aside. lie knew, a'so, that another Noble Lord, who had spoken on the previous evening, and whose sentiments were entitled to be heard with every attention and respect, had told them that, though the decision of the House of Commons had been arrived at by a clear majority, it was not a clean rnajority.—(Hear , hear, from the cross benches.) He would ask them, were former majorities more clean than this ? Nay, he would add, had there ever been a decision coma to that was more free from the exercise of authority and extraneous influence than the decision on th e C orn Bill i n the ot h er H ous e ? All who had been in th e pract i ce of lead i ng and guiding the delibera tions of the other House—and it was not for them to question their moti ves w h en b y a l arge ma j or i ty th e y had sent up this Bill, with the o bj ec t o f sett li ng a difficult and most importan question. H e k new some N o bl e L or d s on the cross bcnche had stated that some of the public declaratlons of the leading parties who supported this measure was different from that which they entertained in private; but he did not profess to drag these parties to the confessional, or to drag their sup porters there.—( Hear, hear. ) It was sufficient for him that they had altered their minds, and, having so altered, sup ported the present measure.—(Hear, hear.) He took the de cisinn of the House of Commons as he found it on this mea sure, as the declaration of the representatives of the people. Before entering with his Noble Friend (Lord Ashburton) into the commercial phase of the question. he would say a few words on two points, which required to be considered as ne cessary and preliminary to the consideration of the general question. The first point was the political aspect of the ques tion, which was referred to by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, and also the Noble Lord who last addressed the House. The importance of being independent of foreign nations for the supply of food, and the political dangers of that dependence. He (Lord Lansdowne) would not revert to what was so forcibly stated by the .Noble and Learned Lord who followed the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonise, and which also had been referred to by the Noble Earl behind him. He must observe, however, that that striking fact which had been so strongly put forward had not been met. The gigantic influence of Napoleon exten d ed all over Europe. He employed every commercial m eans to ruin this country, and prevent a supply of food, b u t h uman i nterest was stronger than the power of Bonaparte, a n d hi s policy was d e f eate d . —( Ch eers .) Look at the price of co rn th en , and contrast it with what it might have been had that p o li cy b een successful? But corn was coming in all the time. l'h e power of Napoleon, great and paramoust as it then was, did no t succeed ; had it done so, corn, instead of selling at 105 s. a quarter would have been 1505.—( Hear, hear.) If no corn had come iu, ruin would have overtaken, not only those engaged in manufactures, but the farmers also. That importation of foreign corn was necessary to save the labouring classes from starvation and the farmers frem ruin. But what said the Noble Lord, and the Noble Lord opposite, following him in the same line of argument, in talking of the danger of depending on foreign countries for a supply of food ? They rested their case in respect of this point on the present sliding-scale. Now, in his opinion if there was one law so contrived more than another to create this clang( r it was the sliding-scale—( Hear, hear.) — because, under the operation of a fixed duty, or free trade, they could regulate the quantity of corn from foreign countries that might be required, end what corn-growers in those countries might readily expect in regard to the supply. But with a sliding-scale, they proclaimed their danger, as far as scarcity was concerned, to all foreign countries, and if those countries, as had been represented, were disposed to conspire against this country, they could easily do it, for at thu very moment when the sliding-scale proclaimed the scarcity of corn in this country, they et easily cut off the supplies, and reduce the country to starvation.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") He was persuaded there was infinitely more danger in the sliding scale than in any other system of law that could be adopted. Yet this system had been proclaimed by Noble Lords on the other side. The Noble Lord (Lord Ashburton) had in illustra tion of this subject, referred to the cotton trade as showing the danger which would arise in any rupture with America on ac count of our being dependent on that country at present for sup plies. Some Noble Lords were alarmed at the thought of giving the f >reigner a control over the supply of corn, but in his opinion quite as much mischief, misery, and starvation would follow a sudden refusal on the part of America to suply tido country with cotton as with corn. ( Hear, hear.) And yet the very last act of the Government, on which the Noble I ord also had last addressed the House, waa:to reduce the duty on the importa tion of cotton from Arneriea. Upon the subject, therefore, of rendering themselves dependent upon foreign countries, they ought not to trouble themselves for a single moment.—( Rear. hear.) Now there was another point connected with this Bill in a preliminary point of view, to which he must direct their Lord ship's attention. A strong opinion prevailed amongst some Noble Lents that the passing of this Bill would be attended with con siderable alteration in the social state of the country. He knew it had been very much the fashion, not merely amongst Noble Lords on the cross benches, but amongst eminent persons both in this and other countries, to say that this measure would pro duce a great alteration in the social condition of this country ; and he had heard very conspicuous persons in neighbouring counties pronounce a sort of panygeric upon the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government for having under taken to work out a revolution in the social system of England. Now nothing he thought was further from the Right Hon. Baronet's mind in bringing on this Bill than working out a great revolution in the social condition of England. Nor did he think there was any reason for troubling themselves with such an apprehension, for landed property would always have attached to it a large degree of importance, while the possession would always exercise some control over the decisions of the Legislature. Even in countries of a purely commercial character, such as Holland, which was described as a country which could extract nothing it wanted out of i own soil, the possessors of landed property exercised a certain, indeed a high degree of influence on their particular legislators —( Hear, hear.) He did net at all apprehend, then, that this Bill would diminish the power or influence of the aristocracy, or of the country gentry, who were described by the Noble Lord, the late Secretary of State for the Colonies, as being an essential part of the aristocracy of the coutdry.— ( Hear, hear.) Having disposed of these two preliminar. points, he now came to the consideration of the ~.orntnercisl principle involved in this measure, but here he must stop to remark that he did approve of the Bill, because he altogether approved of its provisions.—(Protcctionsst cheers.) In sup porting the Bill they were acting as practical men, relying upon the experience they had had of protection, while those who opposed it were not sui , porting practical, hut purely theo retical views, for most of the restrictions which had been placed upon trade were intended to be experiments, and the corn-laws as an experiment had failed. Now, hitherto all re strictions which had failed hail been abandoned, and what strongly indicated the expediency of their abandonment was the fact that these parties who were sunposmi to be most interested in them had never made an attempt to induce the Legislature to restore them. It was not as if they were now called upon to resist a charge in a system which had for ages proved successful, but they were a'ked to do away with res . rictions which were passed as an experiment, and which experience and obwrvation had fully shown b a d f ailed.— ( Hear hear.) While, on the other hand, th e experience of the ' last thirty or forty years had su!3ciently served to convince them that changing the re strictive system invariably resulted in bend ing the country and improving these trades which it was thought it pro'ected. Look, for instance, at the experience they had derived from the change which lad been made on silk, hops, and kelp. His Noble Friend who last addressed their Lordships had told them that Mr. Huskisson had once given an opinion ia favour of the protective system. Now, in his opinion, one of the greatest benefits M., Huskisson conferred on this country was doing away with the duty on siik.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Huskisson was terribly reviled for that act, but Mr. Huskisson said he would persevere, notwith standing he might be called hard-hearted, and the result proved most triumphant, for at the time the charge was made there were only 200,000ibs of silk manufactured in this country, while now there were 600,6001b5.—( {fear, hear. ) His Noble Friend the late Secretary for the Colonies had boldly declared that the abolition of protecti-n had proved highly injurious to the shipping trade, -but they had never heard of an attempt on the part of interested parties to re store the whole system. His Noble Friend, however, must have looked at a wrong paper, or he would not have made the statement he did. His Noble Friend had stated that there hat been a positive diminution of Englisk tonnage in the year 1845, but he found from a very carefully prepared and tole rably accurate paper, which had been lately laid upon their Lordships' table, that in the year 1832 there was an increase of 2,618,030 tons, as compared with the period when the duty had been reduced. But th re was a subsequent reduction of duties, and yet with that reduction the number stood thus—in 1832, the tonnage of Eng land was 1,936,000 tons, while in the year 1845, it was 3,660,000 tons.—( Hear, hear.) Hs could hardly believe then that the shipping trade was suffering under the relaxation of protection, and nothing, he thought, could be more conclusive in favour of this Bill than the figures he had given.—( Hear, hear.) But it was said the shipping trade of foreign countries had increased since the abolition of protection. Well, he ad mitted it, and gloried in the result. He was rejoiced to hear that these measures had been conducive to advance the in terest of other countries as well as their own, and God forbid that it should ever be objected to any measure tl.at it was calculated to lead to such a result.— (Cheers.) In the year 'B5, Mr. Pitt, in his statement of Political Eco nomy, did not consider it as strange to his principle ; when he endeavoured to avail himself he did not see any great success liable to result from its application. He entertained a com mercial proposition for a free trade with Ireland ; that was founded on a principle of improvements in commerce. There were not wanting persons of high authority, like him ; and people out of doors, who then, as now, saw in the adoption of this proposition the ruin and destruction of England. A near relative of my Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies (Colonel Stanley), whom he had the honour to know, came forward on that occasion, and presented a pe tition enforcing it, in which he stated what the peti tioners stated—that they desired to be heard by counsel, for that was about to be done which would put the finishing stroke to the cotton manufacture of England. It was the ad mission of Irish fustians and cottons which caused this alarm, and they stated that the working people, manufacturers, and their children, would be sacrificed. The petition was not adopted, and what was the event ? These cottons were ad mitted, and he certainly regretted to say, that Ireland did not now produce enough for her own consumption ' • for since that time the cotton manufacture of England was greatly increased. They next came to another extension of this system ; for, anxious to get at the root of the protective system, a commercial treaty with France was proposed. It was debated in that House, and he would s ay with the concurrence and approbation of the Noble Lord, who was sitting on the cross bench. The measures came before the House in the form of resolutions, instead of being placed in the form of a Bill. They were placed in that form in order to give that House an opportunity of making any alteration in that Bill. The treaty was debated in that House, and a person of scarcely inferior authority to Mr. Pitt, though in a different walk of life —a friend of the late Secre tary of the Colonies—he meant the Bishop of Llandaff or Dr. Watts—took in his notions of protection the same views as his Noble Friend. He told the House that they were throwing over all the experience of their ancestors. In that opi nion he followed, or rather preceded, the example o f his Noble Friend, and read the preamble of an Act of Charles H. The preamble of this Act set forth, that as it had become universally known that the wealth of this country wa r disappearing altogether in consequence of the money sent cut of the country to purchase Fret ch wines—( Laughter). The experience of the ancestors to which the Noble Lord had re ferred might be very good, and he revered the experience of their ancestors, as they founded tke great principles and con stitution of the country. He believed they had laid the go vernment on the surest fou n d a ti on , ant contributed much to the prosperity and happiness of the country. But he would say that his respect did not extend to any of those Hostrums which theyapplied from time to tim e b y A ct of Parliament. They applied all those nostrums, and invented various schemes founded on the principle of protection , which unifor m l y f a il ed in their effect. If the Noble Duke who presided at the Board of Trade had leisure (but he believed that he had not) to look through all the papers and memorials which had from time to time been sent to the board , from t hose paper s th ey would find that the commerce of the country had had mere dangerous and hair-breadth escapes than were even encountered in the adventures of Sinbad the Sai'or. The commerce of this country had undergone various improvements and alterations, all of which were to have seriously injured it ; but they had al ways ended by the commerce of the country finding itself, after the lapse of a few years, in a higher petition than it Iliad attained before. Therefore, he again said, that he thought that experience was rather against than in capital. The consequence of this was, that he bad brou g ht round a class of farmers who were the most p ros p erous and happy, and who reflected credit upon th e country. would never let a farm to any one who had not at least 101. pe r acre If farms were to be taken on a different system to the present one of letting out small portions of land, they would find men of large capital who would embark in agriculture. It was the opinion of the Noble Lords on the cross benches that it was not for the benefit of agriculture for men of capital, who were acquainted with agricultural pur suits, to bring their capital into such a speculation, but such was not his opinion. He was not at one pericel in favour of free trade principles, but he was now converted to such an opinion. He could only say that his conversion was pure. He had nothing to exp ec t f rom h er Majesty ' s Ministers—he sought no reward ; on th e contrary, he had made a great sacrif i ce ; for it was a sacrifice to lose the good opinion of the farmers of England. He had made that sacrifice, . because it was f or t h e benefit of the country at large. He could not sit down without expressing his regret that thel_re h b ur e d li e e n v s ed up t c h i at tl t i h e e la i‘ n i il in ‘ i v s i t t r h y a d S i ' d icta- 1i e o those who had b roug ht f orwar d t hi s measure had not considered Tn t h ore ei r particularly'a 1 e v iao n . expect that evils would result from these burdens, which would make it necessary that they should take them into their particular consideration. He thought that now they had an admirable opportunity of con sidering thi s su bj ect, and of alleviating the burd ens under equivalent f or t h e i n j uries inflicted by which the agri cu lt ur i st was labourinna for he did not consider that the conti nuance " of protection for three years was an these b ur d ens . Believ ing es he did t h at a great chance had taken place in reference to this question—seeing that thos e w h o had foimerly advocated a 40s. duty h a d now reduud their claims to exactly one-half the amaunt—seeing, also, that those who had formerly advo cated a sm a ll fi xed duty were now contented with no duty at all—and believing, as he did, that the period had now arrived when these laws must be rescinded, he thought it_ better that they should adopt the wiser .ri c; l . 7: l of at once yielding to the popular . opinion, i I t former of endeavouriag to retain former opinions in•ejudices. By the adoption of this policy, they they would harmony where bitterness at present prevaily..en• friendly d basis the extend commerce, and eatablish on a more 1," he would state relations of foreign countries. In conclusion, Ministers, and that he had every confidence in her i I % e l s e l and accomplished mare particularly in the sagacity of that a councils.—( Hear. Minister who presided over Ilea Majesty's_ He would ask their Lord hear, cheers, and counter-cheering. He had been entirely con ships to paint out any one person who You were not.") sistent on this subject.— (A i wci a u n l ( d restore Noble who had been so • and he He saw few, or none, total abolition of those • • urged the propriety of a the beginning see that thosa who laws. He did not, therefore, to consistency who (lad fram believed only those coualrdoluanydelrm, had become converts to these opinions, could be greatly charged with ineoasistency. Until they could prove that this country THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 29, 1846. favour of protection. He knew that it would he s aid by many that they • were prepared to aband.,n every thing if the principle of it were not for the farmers of England. Nothi ng cou ld b e more erroneous than to suppose that the farmers, with all th e a d vantages of the wealth and prosperity of this country—with a growing population—derived their sub sistence f rom the sickly atmosphere of protection instead of their own industry and labour. His Noble Friend had voted Mr. Huskisson as the wisest of commercial statesmen, and said that he had agreed to the maintenance of the prohibitory sys• tern. He thou g ht , when his Noble Friend told the House, when he quoted the opinions of Mr. Huskisson, as given in 1815 mention, and also of his last his o- epeech of 1828 , he enti r ely su p presse d ll • had said that Mprimoillisusik9 1815. His Noble F r ie n d of ou r commercial state issore was th e w i ses t mien, and said that he refused his authority to confirm these opinions. He would bee leave to read some remarkable passages in the last speech of Mr. Huskisson. Me (Mr. Huskisson) had said that to whatever extent they attributed to other evils the present state of th e country, the corn laws were themselves a burthen and a restraint upon the manufactures and the commerce of the country. How was it possible for his Nolols Friend, after he had read that speech in 1830, deliberately to com e d own to the House an d quote the authority of Mr e ll9skisson as enter taining view s co i nc i d i ng with his own in condemni ng the corn-laws. H e believed that dm o there s elase we e r ; not among the native s o f t h e kin g sons better inW•med and more l ong - s i g h ted in any transactioni of business which refe rre d t o t h emselves than Scotch far mers. He had a list in his hand of six or seven large farina in Scotland, in an important part of the country, which had been let lately, and one as lately as a fortnight since, when this Bill had passed the House of Commons, and a great many of these lettings bad taken place at an advance of from 10 to 25 to 30 and 40 per cent. Were these unfortunate Scotehmen to be held up to public derision ? Were they to be handed down to 'posterity as Scotch dupes ?—(Laughter.) Memorials were presented by the Board of Trade—deputations of Members of Parliament attended to represent the infamy which would follow repealing the duty on flax. He would trouble their Lordships for a few moments, and these were the last figures he should trouble their Lordships with, to the effect that would follow the withdrawal of the protection from flax. The produce of Irifh flax in the year 1641, the year before the withdrawal of protection, was 25,000 tons. The year after protection was withdrawn, the quantity of flax produced in Ireland was 36,000 tons—so that it was clear that when protection was re moved, in spite of all the dreaded anticipation, there was a great increase in the produce of wool. Lord Devon reports in his Commission, that sat in the north of In land, that they had examined a Mr. Blake, who stated that the cultivation of flax had greatly increased since protection was removed. Mr. Maculloch stated, in answer to a question put to him, as to whether he thought flax was a remunerative crop, that of late years it had become very remunerative. Their Lordships had therefore the evidence of persons residing in the country, the best evidence which could be accumulated, to show that the removal of protection from flax was followed by a great increase in the cultivation of that article. But it might be said that this was owing to the in crease of the linen manufactures, that it so happened that protec tion to linen was withdrawn at the same time. He was of opinion with Mr. Huskisson, though not his earlier opinion, hut in his latter opinion, that the corn laws were an impediment to the progress of manufacture. He contended, therefore, that all restrictions when removed had been followed by an im mense increase in the production of those articles. If those persons who fancied that the removal of restrictions would have reduced this country from its proud pre-eminence to the lowest state of degradation, and if they were to rush to those scenes were desolation and ruin were expected, and thought they wonld see nothing but rein, desolation, misery, end wretchedness, they would he surprised at seeing an im mense district in a most flourishing and happy condition. He was told that they thought too little of the home market to the agricultural interest. All fears with reference to the removal of protection in the manufacturing districts and the county of Lancashire, have, according to accounts which he had lately received, been entirely removed. He would call their Lord ships' attention to the immense increase which had taken place in the value of manufactured goods as compared with agricul tural. In the former case, the increase bed been 6,300 per cent., whereas agriculture had advanced only 3,500 per cent. He therefore considered it very short-sig,' ted not to consider the manufacturing interests as part of the na tional prosperity of the country. He could never bring him self to consider the prosperity of manufactures as a sort of morbid secretion which the State physician was to keep down by a restrictive regimen. On the contrary, he considered that the freest scope should be given to manufactures, and that the workmen should be enabled to obtain their food at the cheapest possible price..--(Hear, hear.) He thought that a fixed duty was preferable to the alterations now proposed, and he did so because of the advantage which would accrue to the revenue of the customs ; and tecause he wi.h d that in all great changes the prejudices and sentiments of all should be consulted, and not suedenly interfered with. By adopting it, the chance would be gradual and moderate, and prove satisfactory to the agricultural interest. Those were tis opinions some time since ; and if he had the settlement of the question now, those would be his opinions still.—( Hear, hear.) The question which he had now to answer was, whether he would adopt that principle when the Bill went into com - mittee. He had no hesitation in answering that he would not, because, though he might he nominally voting for such an amendment. if it were possible, he would be really voting against the Bill ' • and the consequence, he firmly b e li e ved, vrould be, that instead of a fixed duty being eventually passed, their Lordships would he called upon to pass a totally different Bill.—( Hear, hear.) His hopes, as connected with the fall or rise of provisions, in consequence of this measure, were not up to the depression which was predicted on the one side, nor to the exaggeration on the ether. The way he thought it would operate would be by a gradual and certain increase of commerce which would be placed on a more solid foundation. —( Heac, hear.) He was confident that the effect would not be injurious to the British farmer, and he would apply in re ference to its operation the lines of one of their most beau tiful poets. " Trade's proud empire bastes to swift decay, As ocean sweeps the laboured mole away." He was willing to adopt the two fol'owing lines iii addition.-- " A self-dependent power can storms abide, As rocks resist the billows and the tide," And with that confidence he would sit down and give his vote for the second reading of the measure. Lord Beaumont, the Earl of Eglinton, and the Earl of Essex then rose together, and for several minutes the House presented a scene of the most indescribable confusion, some calling for one Noble Lord to be beard, and some for another. Amidst the uproar, The Duke of RICHMOND rose and moved that the Earl of Fglinton be heard. Earl GREY moved as an amendment that the Earl of Essex be heard. The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question to the vote, and declared that the "not contents" had it. The Duke of RICHMOND said that the " contents " had it. Earl GREY—I say the " not contents " have it. The Earl of EGLINTON at length gave way, and The Earl of ESSEX proceeded to address the House.—He was sorry that he should have occasioned such trouble ; but he was desirous to express the opinions he entertained with regard to this great question, and as he was so little accustomed to ad dress the House, he hoped for its favourable consideration while he made a few observations on the subject. He had come to the conclusion he had entertained with anxious de liberations of great doubt, and he did not found them on the opinions of the Brights and Cobdens of Manchester, but upon thorough conviction. He had had vouch doubt as to the repeal of these laws, and he should still feel much doubt in his mind were it not that the opinions of her Majesty's Ministers had brought forward such arguments as they did in support of the repeal of the restriction en the trade and commerce of the country. But whatever doubts he had on his mind as to these laws they were removed, and he now had none.—( Hear, bear.) But long before this measure was brought forward, he was of opinion that the cheapening of corn would he of great benefit to the farmers, for it would allow there the means of fattening cattle at a much mare remunerative rate than at present.—( Hear, bear.) He was also of opinion that this measure would greatly improve the sale of cattle, and he was sure that thet should all live to see the benefit of the repeal of the corn-laws to this country.—( Hear.) He was not one of those who impressed upon the people that this was a measure which would be of great benefit to the country. He did not seek to be popular by using such arguments, but he was not for making the peopl e elieve that high prices were for the benefit of the people. He was for making the farmers be lieve that the new system of farming was the better ; and he was for impressing on them the necessity of doing away with the old and antiquated system of farming. He would take that opportunity of doing away with an unfavourable impres sion which had been made with respect to himself at some of the farmers' meetings a short time ago, where it was stated that he vi as careless of the interest of the small farmers. He had never said anything which could lead any one to so repre sent him. What he h a d sa id was , th a t th e repea l o f t h ese law, would do more injury to the small farmers, would injure those who farmed land in a small way, and .who had not capital at all to enable them to make the necessary improve ments in agriculture. Re had so expressed himself, and he was at a loss to know how it could be expected otherwise. There was one thing to be very much regretted when consider ing this question, and that was, there was an impression amongst those who were ambitious to rise and to be of importance in their various parishes, that it was thought by them to have large farms was to be the most respectable. This false feeling made many take more land than they had caoital to work to their advantage. This taking of large farms they thought the most necessary to their prosperity. Now what said the late Lord Leicester, the great promoter of the agricultural interests, and the great authority on all that affected the farmers' interests? He said that he was not in a progressive state—until they could Prove that the wants of the population did not increase with their growing numbers—until they did all this, he would rather trust to the sagacity and foresight of her Majesty's Ministers, who had, in his opinion, only introduced this measure at a period when it was really required. For himself he would only say, that even if he had not changed his opinion upon this subject he would never have joined in the outery•which had been raised against Perhaps the most eminent statesman who had ever ruled the destinies of this great country. Whatever, therefore, might be the fate of this measure, whether it were to pass into a law, or whether it were to be rejected by their Lordships, this country still would be deeply indebted to that Minister for the series of admirable measures he had brought forward, and for his endea vours to raise the country from the slough of despondency in which he had found it.—(lmmense cheering.) The present measure was admitted by all to he not a factious one ; it pos sessed in itself all the elements of success; and even if it should disappoint the expectations which had been formed of it, the country would acquit that Minister of any blame in conse quence. It would increase the comforts of the labouring classes, it would extend the advantages of commerce, which under the protective system had been paralysed, and when time should have ohllt'rated all party feelings, the name of this Minister would be looked up to by all posterity with gra titar2e and admiration. He should give his hearty support to this measure. The Earl of EGLINTON said, that since he had the ho nour of seconding the address to her Majesty's speech from the throne, he had never obtruded himself upon the notice of the House further than by addressing- very few words to their Lordships, and, therefore, he trusted they would excuse him on the p resent occasion. Like the' Noble Earl who had just sat down, he (Lord Reli on) had no doubt of the propriety of the course he was pursuing, nt but, unlike him, he had not changed his opinions_( che ers would from uml l a dt e hbee h v a a d e rwy a i s d fie h r adhered and temperate et t eoh:tdphet,rsaet advocated. Conservative counter-cheers)— foru n principleste r ch e w e r h s , i ) eh — , course to eie dmoeudbib.treyudteptniiontietehsatiiet order to insure the unanimity of a party, a point beyond which they could not go,'a , lere was a blind obedience to the dictum of a eadtn,r whereul be most reprehensible. He was of opinion would they had never reached that point, and when they found the leader who had, in times gone pat, inculcated those principles, prostituting his excellent talents, r,.nti deserting those principles and the party who held them, he considered that further obedience to him would be must reprehensible. He did not wish to be personal, though on occasions like the present it was too much the habit to indulge in personality, and ascribe to those who might differ from them, all kinds of improper and dishonourable motives. He would beg to say that he hid toe much re-pect for those who occupied the Ministerial benches, too much respect for their Lordships' House for one moment to indulge in any observations of the kind. How much he might lament the Course which they had judged it expedient to pursue, how much he might blame their facility in yielding to a line of policy which he considered as pregnant with danger to the ceuntry, yet he believed they were as much actuated for the general good as the warmest aid bitterest of their opponents. And though it might appear very strange to him that out of a Cabinet of 13 one only should have been found to have come out unscathed from the furnace, still he believed that her Ma jesty's Government were not actuated by any love of office, but that the party were influenced by an extraordinary want of firmness of purpose and a more extraordinary admiration of their leader, but he considered it a legitimate subject to inquire into a change of opinion. In the first place, the failure of the potato crop had been denied by the Noble le rd in his opening speech upon the measure, as the influencing causeof the change, but he (Lord Eglington) must beg leave to differ from him, and exaggerated statements of a failure was the reason for the introduction of the measure. He did not mean to say that those statements were entirely without foundation, He did believe that there was a partial failure of the potato crop, but it was not of sufficient amount to involve the consequence of a famine. Some of the poorer inhabitants ran a risk of incur ring more than their usual quantum of suffering, and it cer tainly was the duty of Government to interpose to the best of their ability; and if he thought this Bill would have the effect of relieving distress—if he considered that it would prevent the suffering of one poor family, he would support the Bill; but he did not think it would have any such effect. A great many measures could have been found to alleviate distress. An increase of the income-tax might have been imposed, but how the present measure could have the effect of providing against the famine in Ireland was quite out of his power to comprehend. There was no scarcity of provisions in Ireland ; the only scarcity that was felt there was a scarcity of money, and he could conceive no measure less calculated to benefit Ireland than the present. Ireland seas strictly an agricultural e( untry, and ; thousands of its acres were uncultivated, and if there was anything more incumbent on them than another, it would be to pass measures calculated to reclaim these lands. But he put it to them was the present measure calculated to have any such effect ? On the contrary, it put an end to all agricultural enterprise. But th en , f orsoo th, they were told that they had been pampered into sloth by protection, and that competition would infuse life into them, and that where they at present grew three qrs. of wheat they would grow five qrs. But he did not understand how competition, which necessarily induced low prices, could have any such effect. Could the landowners, who depended for their incenses on the rents cf their lands, afford to lay out the necessary expendi ture, which would inv.dre the probability of the produce of five years instead of three.—( Hear, hear.) He seas particu larly interested in the state of Scotland, and he believed that the present measure would he most injurious to the farmers in the western district of Scotland, who lived in the manner of labourers, he should like to know how they would be able to compete with the low-priced corr. They had laid out all their money on their ground, and now, when they expected to reap some return, they were to be delayed by a sup ply of corn, at a cheaper rate than they were able to produce it. Bad land could not compete with the very low price, and it would be thrown back into grass, which it could hardly produce. Then, as regarded the principle of competition, suppose a new railway was to be started in competition against an old-established one, both having the same termini, he would put it to them, would it conduce to the prosperity of the old? And if they hail cheaper fares, even under a better management, wou ld it tend to make their dividends 5 per cent. instead of 3 ? If after the ample discussion which had been given to this mea sure and after the deliberate opinions of the people, it should hi' decided that the country must be governed on the principles of free trade, he for one was not prepared to say that that House should stand in the way of the avowed wishes of the nation.---( Hear, hear.) As hereditary guardians of the people. as the protectors of their rights, as Peers of Great Britain. he , called upon them to reject this Bill.—( Hear, hear.) Ho besought the Noble Drake, without whose assent this Bill could not appear before their Lordships, he besought him to stand forth once more as the protector of that country which he had sn often saved. He called upon the Noble Lords opposite who adhered to those principles of protection which they had al ways advocated in common with himself though they differed very materially on other points. Laws might be re-enacted, statutes might be repealed, but character once gone could never be regained. He besought their Lordships not . to share in the degradation which this ill.nmened measure had brought upon the publics character of British statesmen—( Cheers)— and which he feared would cast a foul blot upon them in after ages.—( Loud cheers.) Earl DALTIOUSIE and Lord Beauerowx here rose simulta neously to address the House, and contested their right to do so for several minutes, during a scene of the greatest confusion. The latter Noble Lord struck the table several times in tile most violent manner, and in the midst of most vociferous cries of " Dalhousie" and " Beaumont" shouted " I move the ad journment of this House." Earl Dalhousie at length gave way, when Lord BEA IfIIONT, in a most excited stake —I am surprised that the Noble Earl should persist in his attempt to prevent me from addressing your Lordships, because I said to him across the table that I would occupy but a few minutes of your Lordships' time—(Cheers)—feeling anxious, as he is. and all your Lordships must be, that this debate should conclude (Cheers. ) And when I rose :t was fgr the purpose of confin ing myself to a very - few remarks. Although I confess, my Lords, it is with rain I do contract my observation] into a small compass, because I feel much on the subject. I have thought much on this subject .—(Cheers. ) I have attended to every speech that has been made on this subject, and I do think that there are certain points which have not. yet teen aduled to.—(Hear, hear.) But, nay Lords, notwithstanding this strong feeling, I will still keep the pledge I should have given, and if your Lordships will but lend me your attention for a fe w minutes—(Cheers)—you will find that I will not detain you long.—(Cheers.) If, my Lords, in those few remarks which I feel it my daty to address to you, I do not dwell on that portion of the subject on which so much stress has been made in other parts of this discussion, I mean that strange change of opinion which has come over cer tain Noble Lords,l trust you will not impute it, by my silence on that subject, to any small value that I may be supposed to pct upon the consistency of character in 'public men. I feel as much as any man the shock which public morality must have received by this uncalled-for and injurious measure. And if the question of the conduct of the Government were brought forward separately, I myself would move a resolution, object of which would be to reprobate their conduct, for re. on such a subject I would feel it my duty to vote for such solution as that.— ( Hear , hear.) But on the present occa. pion, my Lords, I would confine myself to the subject before you, because it is my wish that this subject should be treated on its own merits. I wish, my Lords, to come to a consider ation, whether or no, you are now to alsonden that principle, which for so many years as guided your commercial qualities ; and supposing you to come to that resolution, whether the I fl h e o a p r d h e t a o r . ) h a v T e h s e e s e e n were this themeasure gr ou n d s my L rds measure propcsed by th e G overnment is the best mode of en d t o h on e inw e g n h? l i y —which( I nee d not say, my Lords, nowsc'llatsstehdiso and la t end of the debate, that my vote shall be n given agal • st this mea sure. You h ave b ased this measure on its real ground, for with the exception of two Noble Friend, who sit together, the Noble Marquis and the Noble Earl who spoke on the former occa • sion, if any arguments have been brought forward in favour of the Government measure. lam sure we have had ncne from the Government themselves. What was the case in regard to the Noble Earl who opened the debate? He wasted a long period in trying to bring forward an excuse for his vote on this question, a long list of votes against his seeretly entertained opinions.— ( Hear, hear.) The larger portion of the Noble Earl's speech was to the effect that he entertained free-trade principle!, but not nd v e e r n o tu rtehetNo o v b o le t e Ea in rrs ac s c p o e r e d c a h n w c ag e.— a ( fe H e e b a le r, at h te e m ar p . t ) T he he 6 r d e mai at argument with regard to the grounds and principles of this measure. After partially abandoning the cry of famine in Ireland, he said, My lords, I know that it will be satisfactory, notwithstanding the t;istress in Ireland, that corn in immense quantities has been imported into this country. The fact was, they were about to enhance the value of every article and necessary of life—to lose the benefit of the price to be obtained by the competition of a single market in order to enhance the price of food. Such seemed to be the object of every projector of the Bill. He was aware that a great at tempt had been made to show a deficiency in the crops of potatoes in Ireland. This he drew from the last returns sent to England; but a great deficiency had occurred in the potato crop, and the natural consequence was, that the peasantry would neglect the culture of potatoes for white crops. What ever might be the eloquence employed upoc the subject, no elserge whatever could be made respecting the paints before the House ; and when the balance of trade was talked of, it was of li . tle consequence on which side this hatince was to rest, but certainly, when there was atiything to poise, it might well be asked on which side the advantage was to be gained. They were told that gold was to tilt for the exchange of genie, and gold was to be the grand maximum of frith in on referring to the eridence of Mr. Gay before the Land Burdens Committee, that that gentleman stated that in the China market the exports were selling at less and less, and that many losses were in conssquence sustained. He believed the exports must be met by imports, and put gold among the other articles that are to be estimated in the calculation. Grain entered comparatively little into the foreign trade, as compared with the home trade, which, in regard to the exports they were selling year by year for less and less, while higher prices were being paid for returns to be imported --(Hear, hear.) If they reduced the price of labour in the home market to an equivalent extent, there would, h owever, b e no lose. If the rate of labour i n b o th countries was approximated there would be no loss. The great argument with regard to the corn-laws was, that in order to increase the exports of the country, it was necessary to increase the imports. He believed in that respect, that the imports were regniatel in a great measure by the state of the home market. Taking the population of England and t h l e u y ar fo te u r nd o t f li e e p o o r i n ml a tir se t e o m b e e d t c o o n p s o u l m i ti i e n a g l e W ac a h les economists there were twenty millions of acres of arable land in the country, of whteh Eve milliene of acres were under wheat. Supposing that ea. h acre yield three quarters—and that was less than was produced in many pleces he knew, bet it was the average amount of corn y ielded —t lie amou n t pro d uce d would be fifteen millions, being one million l ess t h an the whole required for the conommtion of the population. There was but one million of quarters which were made up from Ireland and the colonies. The amount of deficiency was se small zs to leave but little •to be made up by importation from foreign countries. --(Hear, hear.) But the lowest food at present consumed by the people was wheaten bread. He made this statement, and he made it advisedly. It had .yen proved that when distress prevailed in. Leeds and Sheffield there was more wheaten bread consumed than at times when trade was fieurishing ; as at the latter period the ccnsurpption of butcher's meat was so much greater.—(Hear, hear.) At present therefore, even in seasons of depression, there was but 1,000,000 to make up, though in many seasons the country produced sufficient to supply its wants. But it was said that free-trade would increase the quantity to 2,009,003 quarters, and that the e g o r e e a e t t r o y hj t e l c t e o e f e t o h e e rs e , h i a e n g g elar‘gvaes i t m o potts. increase T t h h e e r e e x w p a o s r t t s o o h f e t h a n e importation of 2,000 ' ,000. If so, they must displace 2,000,000 of English grown quarters, over and above the present amount ; and if the re was an increase of prosperity among the manufac turers of th e country, then that 16,00',000 of cuarters would be etoxoteomtucfhoe, atshbeuwtchheear mu-t h ere a l lude to meatwr's c h n at was stated a e t ci e o d that l alo itsd n pr e o a d r ee t e o o h f i t m he , bossesfe l from o r u o ml at d bt present ree u eN b e o s t t l t eu consumed.t L e d o r t d o w a g o r H e s al He c a o n u d nt w ry h, n d ri e n jan m ds a , ny an y d ea th rs at th i e t would be found th at i n this respect the present measure would be a great hardship. If this were so therihow wouldt hismeet the expectations of those who expected that this measure would brine a large accession of imports. There would be periods if this were true, there would b e seasons and periods in which the large supplies exported would not be required, and then away would go the principle of the manufacturing interest, who expected from this measure a large, regnlar, and perma nent increase of trade with foreign countries.—( Hear. ) The Noble Marquis else said that if they adopted this measure of free trade, the foreigner would regulate his supply, and there would be a regular produce for each and every year, bet this was nothing more than what they had at the present mo ment ; for the Noble Lord ternatked, and truly, that under the present system the foreigner had warning when they were in distress, and when they had abundant harvests, This was ju=t what. be required; and he eas, therefore, strongly favourable to the present system, but whether they had a slid ing-scale or not, the foreigner would always be informed as to the prices of wheat in this country.--( Hear, Lear.) If they were to have foreign corn, it was better, he thought, that it shonld come into the country paying a small duty. But it mos ergued that the foreigner, having a knowledge of the state of the markets in this country, could easily stop the supplies during disturbed times ; bat how did this agree with one of the statements made by the Noble and Learned Lord who lately interrupted him? The Noble and Learned Lord stated that even Then Napoleon was in the meridian of his power—when Napoleon had almost conquered the world, and had every part under his control, he could not prevent corn coming into this Country.—(Hear, hear.) There was snot her circumstance to which he roust allude be fore he sat down. 'The protectionists were asked why the English farmer could not compete with the foreigner. Now, he contend e d, i n t h e fi rst place that the English farmer came into the market n o t on f a i r terms with the foreigner. He was as convinced of this as he was living at that moment.—(Hear, hear.) In balancing the trade of the country, the English farmer brought 16,002,000 quarters of cern into the market, while the foreigner only brought 2,000,000, or 3,000,090_ the one, however, came positively loaded with taxation, while the foreigner came in free. The English farmer had, perhaps, to pay 4s. or 55., in the shape of direct taxation upon every quarter of his wheat, and yet he had to compete with the foreigner who paid no tax whatever. Besides his Noble and Learned Friend knew little or nothing of Russia, or he never would have made the statement he did with regard to it. Instead of Russia being in the position it was, the land was already clear and ready for plough. It required neither manure nor any thing else, and it only waited for the seed being thrown on the land. —( Hear, hear.) Would this city then. compete with the British farmer on fair and equaleterms ? He would wish to know whether his Noble Friend was a German scholar.L-(Larghter.) Well, perhaps he was not—(Renewed laughter) —if he were, he would remember the description of the state of the cern soils in Russia. The description afar immense tract of land, ready to receive the grain, and only likely to give a return in case of a proper market being found. Not long ago, he was at the port of Goole, in Yorkshire, and he there saw corn which had been conveyed on board' a vessel there at 12e. 6d. per quarter. They might use their in formation as they liked, but he could produce a confirmation° f his statement, that the corn was conveyed on board free, at 12s. 6d, per quarter., Ile referred to his authority, as there was a disposition to contrai'iet his statement. It was not probable that they could maintain that the price of corn would remain so low as it was at present. He knew that if a large trade was carried on in corn the prices would rice, but they would be subject to an enormous fluctuation. He had seen last autumn and winter in Germany that from Monday to Wednesday the price of bread had risen six kreutzere. When they did away with the bonding system they would be exposed to three fluctuations, and left unpro sided with corn stores. The garnering system was adopted all over the c:n:inent, in France, Austria, Germany, Turkey, and even by the Pacha of Egypt. ff there was not sufficient provision ier the country, the people fell back on these stores, which as late as last winter had been the means of preventing famine in many parts of the country. The bonding system Ls England ensured that protective system.--( Hear, hear.) We had in bond a certain quantity of corn which was always a provision, and it was pretty certain rot to come into the market until it was wanted, arid it was certainly a safeguard to the country, and it was more certain and more economical than any other that could be arranged. They had net in this country what was seen at Constantinople, when the people were clamouring at the at senal matiding the surrender of the provisions contained in the buildeng. Something might be done which would hinder the country being dependent on others, If they were to follow the suggestion of his Noble Friend near him, they would cultivate more stock, instead of basing a proper quantity of arab:e land. His Noble Friend said that stock was a great heprovernent in farming, but they must have the straw for the stock, and must have the land to supply that straw and receive in return the manure. If this measure was passed they would be compelled to make up a sufficient number of quarters of foreign wheat, and having no bonded system, you will then be driven to extreme distress. Then would happen that grieveMs of ism for which they aepeer to strive—namely, the market will b e on ly supplied just with what it wanted for the moment. Then, if anything sudden were to happen to the country to check this system. so that this importation could not take place, what would become of the country ? Under the present law there was always a sufficient quantity in bend is supply the deficiency, in case of an accident of this kind. The Marquis of NORNIANBY—Remember your promise. Lord BEAUMONT—The Noble Marquis had reminded him of his promise. He had only to state that he had a tew words to say with reference to the question of population in extensive districts. There was no doubt that whatever the pinlation was, there must he a great demand for labour. In this country, however, the population was very dense, so that there was a great supply rather than a deficiency; therefore, the whole argument drawn from the circumstances of America, did net in the least apph to this country. Their Lordships must bear in mind that this c untry was the most densely populated country in all Europe. There was another point to which he must cad their Lordships' attention, and than from from Selby and Goole to Lond o nt odetain their Lord. that was the question of freight. shi Hamburgh to London. He fulnesswas sorry The h e freights were c.f his feeling. H e proceed at further length ; th at , wishing as he did that the debate gretted that he could not f p ro s m os t h ,e ort as he had done—he re was extremely so l . sorrylle spoke o k o s stop should be concluded to--.light, must have a ion.. and an able s p eec h and knowing that they yet because he thought th e G overnment were and able speech, from the Noble Earl opposite ( Dalhoune). He sa id a l ong bound to show some better ground than had yet been dose, and some better reasons on the part of the Government for intro ducing this measure. He considered that it was their duty to show what would be the diminution of price in tho article of corn—whether it would diminish the material income, cc whether they intended to take 30 per cent., or 20 per cent. from the income of this country. He weuld refer to one point_ the rental of land. The rental of this country was 17/. an acre in the North Riding of Yorkshire, 13/. in some parts of Wales. There were two parishes in Lancashire in which Mr. A.liwortli's manufactories stood, where the rental was only 8/. an acre. This fact was given in evidence by Mr. Ashworth before the Committee app&wed to inquire into these matters. He would conclude by observing that he very much regretted he could not refer to other subjects which he was desirous of bringing before the attention of their Lordships, but at that late hour of the evening he would not fin thcr detain them, and he thanked their Lordships for the kindness with which they had heard him. Lord BROUGHAM explained. His olject, he said, in in terrupting the Noble Lo r d wag t o p reven t mi s con ce pti on w i t h , regardthe to (Lordwhatbeof the N ole Lord. Broughn h m)had reallystated, and als o ' for His Noble F r i en d convenience had entirely misunderstood his statements and his arguments in reference to Russia and to Napoleon Buonaparte, and he had entirely reversed the inference which he had drawn. Ilia object in interrupting the Noble Lord was merely to set him right. and to prevent his (Lord Brougham's) arguments from being misunderstood. The Earl of DALHOUSIE hoped that their Lordships would do him the justice to believ e t h at i n rising to address them in favour of the second readi ng o f t h is Bill, he did so under deep and unfeigned distrust of his inability to discharge the task intrusted to him, but he honed, from the continual course of kindness uhieh he had experienced from them, he would meet with th e i r i n d u l gence, while be made a few obser vations on the important quesiion at present under their con sideration. Nothing should fall from him to increase the feelings of discontent whicsl prevailed among their Lords'iips, bet he would address himself to th e . . question without attempting to excite any irritation on so im portant a cut ject. The debate, as far as it had yet gone, had divided itself into two considerations—the one referred to the measure itself, and the other to the constuct of those Fbe bad brought it forward. It was, be admitted, hard to endure, and painful to listen to the Intchooomr3temificcit,isito;:h%ci,!.:ofe73hiatd, obi,riceeinip.rn(hi ling upon : those who were idenified with the present measure ; and • : t ia ti e lot r u ly ignh acted, stilt opposition ii s t t : i ne l id to h oh e e must admit xi, t I,t h ere a e s „um ich their Lo'erddshi p a s d wh l o ica d r i d f. . f c e a r t e ts , e i from for him th o e n ir t his c t or u n ae m m e i It was not from any disre'l3n o c rl tes , t t . fl e a7t. i l l : would not address their Lordships at any length. His Noble Priend, the late Secretary for the Colonies, had laid ( IPthat (. nts he would feel it unnecessary to ease fully be lo)enfo; them , a gu advanced by the Noble Lord. He should mention to their Lordships that lie had always been of opinion that the pi inciple of protection was not to be maintained, for it was most injarr ous to the trade of this country. He bad founded that opi. nion not upon any light grounds, but had formed it from an examination of the history of the commerce and the legislation of this cou n t ry . Th at was die source from which his opinion was formed—that which his Noble Friend said he had sought for in vain—namely the history of feats. The tariff sinee 1842 had placed the question of protection beyond all doubt AS to its effects and as to the necessity of its alteration, j n making the statements which he now did, he made no state ment at variance with the principles and opinions which he had advocated for years. Ever since he had the fortune to take a part in the administration cf affairs he hed not in that time said anything but that which he now said. Il e remembered watt that when 171 , PlMl•ll_,Pd h;a •_ 1.! _ rr exchange. When he looked to this balance of trade, he thought that there were certa'n countries • rading to each other, and that the result was the difference in expense, the difference being the respective value of manufactures in this country. From the returns that had been made to Parliament, he was led to believe that the principle they went upon was the value of labour.—(Cheers.) Lord BROM; HA NI was quite sorry to interrupt his Noble Friend. i —(9 reatprifiriorL) The Earl of WICKLOW really thought this was a grievous interference with the order of the House.—(Great confusion, and cries of " Order, order.") Lord BEAUMONT must really persist, though it was with great pain, but it appeared from the returns, both front Prussia, Russia, and America, that the price of labour, and the price of wheat had been regulated by the price of gold. This being the case, he trusted their Lord ships would look upon the question in the proper light. Under the operation of the present system English goods were sold at Trebizand, and other places, cheaper than in the Eng lish market. Ho not only made this 1.... 4