The Sun. — London, England, 1846-07-25 00:00:00

the House, at its rising, should adjourn until Monday next. Mr. COWPER presented several petitions from various places r,gainst the violation of the Sabbath by Sunday tradie.s. TPA' SUGAR DUTIES CONTINUANCE BILL. 'She CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having ?Aso to move the order of the day for a Committee of the *thole House on this Bill, Lord G. BENTINCK rose and said—l take this op portunity of stating that I shall postpone the motion of which I have given notice till Monday next, when the sugar duties will be brought on. The SPEAKER having left the chair, and the House having resolved itself into Committee on the Bill, and the clause as to the limititation of the period of the Bill, Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said he would move, as an amendment, that the word " July" be substituted for the word " September." The effect of this amendment would be to make the temporary Bill an eleven months' instead of a monthly Bill, and it would have effect until July, 1847. His object' in moving this amendment was not to obstruct the Government in any way, but to facilitate their movements, and not to interfere in any way with any permanent measures that they might think fit to adopt. At the same time, if, upon further reflection, her Majesty's Ministers should think fit to defer till another session the permanent settlement of the sugar ditties, it would give them an opportunity of doing so, and he could assure the House that it would be a great relief, and nothing more than an act of justice and mercy to the merchants engaged in `the sugar trade, if they should afford them this small respite for the measures proposed by her Majesty's Ministers.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The appre hension as to a famine in sugar was far more visionary than the apprehended famine in corn.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He took the liberty of stating on a former evening, that no lese than between 40,000 and .50,000 tons of sugar were annually produced in the IVT.auritius ; since that statement, the mail had arrived from India, bringing intelligence that no le,s than 60,000 ton might be expected to, be pro duced there in the present year, and 72,000 would probably be produced in the Cape of Good Hope. The Noble Lord having said that it was not his intention at present to enter at any length into the subject of the sugar duties, concluded by moving the amendment. He would propose to extend the period named in the Bill, sth of September, 1846, to the sth f July, 1847. On the amendment being put, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he did not intend, at that period, to go into the general question of the sugar duties. He would merely state that everybody, and every communication which her Majesty's Government hail received upon the subject, alt concurred in this,' that.. it was desirable that the sugar question should be permanently settlement. He was sure that all persons, whether they went further than her Majesty's Government, or whether they did not go so far upon this question still argued in representing the set tlement of the sugar question as an important consi deration. He did not believe that anybody, either in the House or out of the House, believed that the question of the sugar duties should be suffered to stand upon the present basis. He thought that the proposition of his Noble Friend the Member for Lynn would defeat his own purpose. He could assure the House that the Government intended to go on with the measure they proposed, and he trusted that they would be able soon to bring the question to a permanent settlement. Sir R. INGLTrs said he did not intend to go into the general question of the policy of the present sugar duties. He rr.ust say that in his opinion there was nothing- in t l ys propositi on o f th e N o bl e L or d t h e M em b er for Lynn v",nich would at all interfere with the ultimate decision of Parliament, or with the proposition of the Nehle Lord at the head of the Government. By adepting the amendment of the Noble Lord, the luuse would have time to deliberate upon the ques ti in, and the trade would be protected from the sudden interference with the existing duties. The proposition of his Noble Friend might do good in this sense, but it could not do harm in the sense of her Majesty's Ministers, if they had a triumphant majority, which they anticipated, but with respect to which, he believed, they were grossly deceiving them eelves ; his proposition could not vitiate that triumph at all. And, besides, if they acceded to it, they would have until Jislys next a similar amount of revenue from the importation of sugar to that which they had derived. since July last. No man believed that the sugar duties- ought not to be con tinued as a source of ~revenue, and as the proposition could not possiblpio harm, he should give it his support. Mr. LABOLICHERE repudiated the idea that the Government were swayed at all by the expectation of a triumphant majority on the measure brought forward by the Noble Lord the First Lord of the Treasury. All they wished was that tse subject should be fairly discussed, and that a decision should only be come to after mature deliberation ; and therefore they had no wish to prejudge the question ' but if they pas se d a cont i nuance Bi l l for a year instead of a month, as proposed, the question would be left open, and the greatest uncertainty and derangement to trade could not fail to ensue. In fact, he believed nothing could be snore fatal to the commerce of the country and to the interests of the West Indian planters if an impression was conveyed abroad that Parliament was disinclined to enter, in the present session, into a serious consideration of the duties, with a view to the final adjustment of those. clut.ex. Any one who had watched the condition of the country for the last five years, and the uncertainty in width that commerce was placed by the unsettled con dition of those ditties, must be aware that no question stood more in need of a permanent and final adjustment than the sugar duties.—(Hear.) Then, again, the sub ject would be soon brought befor e the House by the Noble Lord (J. Russell). Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Bowe divided, when there appeared— For the amendment Against it Majority against the amendment THE WELLINGTON STATUE. On the motion that the order of the day for going into Committee of Supply be read, Mr. C. BERKELEY said that he could assure the House that in bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice, he should follow the example of his Noble Friend with regard to the brevity of his observations. He was sorry that the subject had not been taken up by a Member more influen tial than be was, but , considering the im portance of the subject to the public at large, he had no hesitation in bringing it under the consideration of the House, A number of individuals, with the most praiseworthy intentions, had subscribed large sums for the purpose o f erect i ng a t est i mon i a l to th Duke of Wellington. A site was required, and the gentlemen of the Committee, without consulting the majority of the suescribers, had decided upon placing it upon the arch at the Op of Constitution-hill. Several remonstrances were addressed to Lord Melbourne, but without any good effect. Now he knew that his Noble Friend opposite would tell him that his motion was too late, but the papers on which it was founded were not moved for by the Mem h.-r for Oxford ti:l June 29, and they were not in the hands of Members till the 11th July. Now he was not roin g to follow the example of his Noble Friend whom ho saw behind him.—(Loud laughter.) It was impos sible to imagine anything more inartistical or in worse tasts, and he would trouble the House with a state ment of Mr. Declines Burton's opinion on the subject. (The Hon. Member here read some extracts to the effect that the arch presented an appearance far too meagre for the design, and was exceedingly inappropriate.) All the architects that had given their opinions on the subject bad expressed themselves in the strongest terms against the proposal. There happened to be one of the most distinguished foreigners i n t hi s country Ls ely —an Italian gentleman—and he was . per & !tly astonished at the monstrous proposition, aid concluded by saying, that if the plan was ca r ri e d our, the statue and the ar ch would inosl assuredly fall.--- (Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. Berkeley) must say - that he gave the Noble Lord, the First Commissioner of the Woods and Forests, very great credit for doing his best in this matter. The letter he had written ought to have considerable weight w:th the House, and the letter of hi* predecessor in office was equally good. He would not trouble the House by reading the Noble Lord's letter ; bat Lard Canning said in his com munication to the Committe?, that whilst in the name of her Majesty he was quite prepared to permit the placing of the statue on the arch, he at the same time considered it his duty to state that her Majesty's Government hoped that the Committee would act in compliance with the•many remonstrances which had been presented to them against the proposal, by desisting from placing the statue on the arch, an d that every eminent architect and artist who had been consulted on the subject decidedly condemned the proposal to erect a statue of so colossal a size as was 4ntendfd t 3 be placed on the arch.—(hear.) In answer to that communication of Lord Canning the Duke of Rutland said that the Committee had refused to re. consider their design, and they insisted upon carrying their_ monstrous proposition into effect.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, he (Mr. Berkeley) considered that . '4.13e House were ca ll e d upon to i nterfere ln this matter.—(Hear, hear.) The arch on the top of a;onstitution- hill afforded a thoroughfare to one of the most roweled parts in the metropolis, and itwas also one of the intrances t the palace of the Sovereign of this country. ; I t'hat arch was also built at the public expense, and the :louse of Commons had a right to say that such an in :-rterence was attempted to he made with the arch as area not to be permitted. He should, therefore, propose That an humble address be presented to her Majesty ;raying that her Majesty will withdraw her consent to ;lace the statue of the Duke of Wellington upon the arch ;1 the top of Constitution-hill." —(Hear, hear.) BAILEY, in rising to second the motion of H on . Gentleman, the Member for Cheltenham, d sn with the greatest pleasure, because he had we lt intenthd to bring forward such a mo tor), but he had delayed doing so until prtain letters were laid upon the table of the House. ,10 must sa y t h a t the propositi on o f the subscribers to 'le statue was most monstrous.—(He ar and laughter.) 'That be wished to impress upon the attention of the %"ouso was, that they were about to erect a kunoment in honour of the greatest hero th 7 s country -ai over produced, being manufactured of imperishable • :aterials, and ho believed h would form the reatest colossal statue in the world. It was calculated yet to come, n o t on l y as a a remain for ages and ages ; onument of the great man it was intended to represent, !at as s menu ...Put of the knowledge and taste o f t h e fi ne , t 43 • xisting amongst the people of this-couiury in the ) , 0 in which they lived, and it was, therefore, highly de ;cable that the monument should be. made as perfect po;sibly could be. --(Cries of Hear, hear.") awing, as the Corumittee did, the opinion of distin ahed petionages, and the opinions of scientific men, L4,40L- 4 41- 1 ;;Gtzolvilit; iacietaigaja4; Cokagii;,wo ,~, , 1 '" AA - / re Ye ( ' teV ell how (p t. t,r,j - (le to he hst • in :he suepre , eion of the slave trade. He kne w I t o great powet• had tAin ~.wey• from our cratzef b,,vt,,,, he thought that sorts statement f?hotild be made I; had been the succes.a:a of our cruizers in eonP u t eti with those of France. Ile would also w ish to ;, what was to be the policy of the present Ilard with g.ir,l to the employment of the officers, because, du rJ ; the late cruiee, it had been found necessary to ren t ° o , from the dock= yard a superintendent whose express...lo, structions were *never to sleep out of the dock-nit When the admirals complained of the fact, they fen tl i , o f necessary to send to the Mediterranean station to rob, !i e. its admiral. Did they intend to employ admiaals and la admirals to command their flt ets, or did the} Oe A 9 they not thiek thorn competent. to such cowman,- fir, wi,hed also to knew what were their intentions wee., regard to the present re l otkaiens with regard to the... 4 nage of specie, and was it to he allowed to con tinue , t ea' its its present. fat:eine'? lie 'would proceed to call the eer y tion of the House to the complaireeztf the class of efn e ; to called paymasters and pursers. The premises M , b e eu realised. r half-pay to those officers held nut had n ch f They were divided into three doses 0 stir 45., and ss. per day. -.The pursers had reniered parts of their sea emoluments for the be e P os i. of their brother officers on half- pay, and it wi ts c ote dered that, in consequen c e of that sur render theY„ t . r ee entitled to an additional shilling p e r day. They 6 : tr id dered 16,000/. annually, an d th e G o vernment, se e Llsse s matters, that over 4,000/. per annum remain 0, tor in their hands. Th e i r arrangements were. 0150‘"4011 trived that many of the' oldest officers were IceP h - dtto, upon the lowest list of half.pay. He thought t ',411 0 attention of the House and G o ve r nment should before to this serious grievanc', for upwards of 10 0 ,„, ° ,„,- the of 30 and 40 ye a r s ' serv i ce , h a d b ee n taken glower high class of pay, and removed entirely to th e ic es/9 grade, and he had no doubt that such injustice w ee • I felt b them. b „I1P y iral DUNDAS said what the Hon. Mew stated should have his best consideration. dole° Sir G. COCKBURN explained the cirn nw _,L;ltl e ' under which the late Admiralty Board had aefeur t , the tion to the officers whose case had been stated 1 0 der Gallant Member, and informed tne House thstt,„olo the circumstances, they could not have acted et ' in the matter than they had done. o oleis After a few words from Captain Harris, gr. '••• and Lord Wo, sley, • ,e . n ea; Captain PECHELL asked whether the tn;:erif'?.; intended to pursue the p rev ious policy of ci uiz-rs on the coast of Africa, and whether they' to keep up their present compliment of ehips• Mr. WARD, in reply, wa s i nau dibl e in tintga-erf* The vote was then agreed to. The following votes were then agreed to. v- of 129,714/. for salaries of the officers of the the Admiralty. ,i i tti 9,011. for salaries of' officers in the Genaaa l 0 1 is° , 140,1151 for salaries orofficers in scientific d e p art in the 'navy. h 0 6°' The following votes were then agreed to , Wit- ° ,a ett e i cussiont-23,9021. to defray the expenses of ne;oe , °, blishments abroad; 752,427/. for the paymenta s " . „bliP' , artificers, labourers, &c.. employed in the naval e'',,agcsi ments at home ; 43,720/ for the payment of t h ,, e „ of the artificers, labourers, &c., employed i n t" to establishments abroad. lie so y Aft r a few words from Captain PECHELL,„ so of 436.426/, for the expense of the naval stores , agreed to. o' l o 126.8101. for the new works in the naval e' v o .t, j ments at home was then agreed to, after a fe`b, 1,05 from Captain HARRIS and Captain PECLI ELL , W e CO ? , :he hoped the case of th- half pay effic -rs. had nut been properly attended to, wo uld be t a-e coesid,ration by the Governawrit. f 21,273/. was then agre.ed to for the purpose °. road' ing the expenses of the medical astablishmentS st) , 71,075/. for miscellaneous naval services It- 4 agreed to, without di,cussion. GO* After a few words from Captain Pechell, Sir o , Cockburn, Sir Charles Napier, and Admiral Deltri 486,322/., for the pensions of military Offi't agreed to • - 156,548/. for civil pensions. 166.626/. for transports. 92.859/. for convicts. s woe 544,587/., to defray the expense of :he p . O-- reo in was then agreed to, after a few observetions " C. NAPIER. ,been 4 44,420/. 6s. 101 (being.the last vote) to deft 4 lb ir as of the naval expenditure over the last roi l. ' por i s g agreed to. The House then resumed, the Chairra B 2. o l :s lo progress, and the report was ordered to be "h" on Monday next. COMMONS' INCLOSURE BILL' bielt I*l 'Lord MORPETH brought up a clause ' been agreed to. The Bill was read a third time and pasied. POOR REMOVAL BILL. „ e d. This Bill was postponed until Monday ne lt r The other orders of the day were then 101- and the House adjourned at a Quarter past O n e • O P • LORD BROUGHAM AND. A_ NESE WITNESS. • In the vast theology of Lord Brougham's ftti l ", - ,.,AeOr ye d in n ow C t h u in rn e s se out that he is practically and deel 3 ` ) 01 0 ' t r p e o tu w a e r r ica th bl is e L'Y and as knowledse 010 lo t weelr,,,, b , o€' s, casion was a divorce of he case ; e u o is _ as s fe Ali• Brougham's pastoral vant, wild a witnea'S In charge the'ea.,e w : and the Way- , wie th gs jest o! his h'!rtations was an oath, which -- ; „%re s t t rd declined to take. The occurrence was higblY ' - „ t f „,' ° o l as ILustrating not only the extent t be Brougham's attainments, but also the w", Ass j • the oath in judicial forms. N o sooner b ibitelki witness produced, than Lord Brougham es . 0 1 .5ef laudable anxiety that the solemn ceremapfore be observed in all its integrity ; he "incle i ceiP e „,,gb it was not required of he r t o b rea k her sa il i tglw;ro she gave her evidence ?" Of course it WO' sat* si the. British public, es p ec i a ll y one ' s maid-seer-of.ce • t o forgetful of the awful fact, the' bres king el , te and saucers is, - in Chinese, no thing else bu t s t - 0 herd, and that wh o l esa l e crash w hi ch i s so te rrible ~/iIP- o f wifely ears, is in truth a volley of oaths. I r lie j e ts lls ol h_oArever, raised a question anterior to the. sec' he oath ; was reluctant to be 0 00 ,4 su time, on the plea that .her .gods would be ' 44- ,llo`,, e if with her The Noble Lord proved cl eit _ e .,e ' this new difficulty ; proclaiming, by-the-by lie ( 0 allegiance for British peers ! Trll her: 1 , 06.: 45 to the iat , rpreter, " that her gods will punts" ( re o r t i e not her, if anything wrong is dune ;" and he, t ie r ' 0 4 5 Ttlt her that no calamity can befit' -- oror %ill consent to be sworn." At length, he r , Oho were appropriately vanquished by the thre e n ;itteeor she persisted in rutu,ing. she s h ou ld be e vili g - refe si ;o l prison. The re cour - e to t h at h i nt dis-loses l ias% t 4 able similarity i n th e re li L2 ions opinions et --tiPP:tll England; for in this country it is custerne r ibrefi l ' f i• come religious Fcruples to taking the veto I 'Y fi v e ' e e . 0 imprisnom,,nt : Kowft.n was duly qualifi, dto g bev t pf deuce by overcoming the attraction , Jf coltesio n or thelbe the particles of the saucer—we trope it ,vveLfore ti e/ 's China"—and the next day she was brought tell AO peers, Lord Brougham ( I t sired th e interpreter t.,o6ltrA that now she his been sworn, if s he does out ac t trig truth her gds will punish her." Toe interP r ,j 11.' 0 0 made her acquainted with the Noble and Learewbo reintirk.—Lord Brougham—Now ask her, ~,preio r her gods ?" In reply, she said, through the le";rell,„0 that the chief was Bur 'dah..—Lord Brougham', h e 0 1 - 0 that Buddah will punish her most severely . iL 5 1 43 0 0 not speak the truth ; and that she will be punts i in this world if she does not speak the trubg i being explained, she replied in Chinese, I vo : ': of f the truth." Lord Brougham had fully gain d c -5 .(1 in forcing th e w it ness to g i ve a satisfactory g 3.1" the truth of her evidence.—Spectutor . SECOND, THE MEMOIRS OF THE REIGN OF G-Er 6s he I :: BY HORACE WALPOLE—Edited mY t pet" 11 Lord Holland, just published for the first time its theuisitllo, form, in three volumes, will be a most acceptabilriter, t o to all libraries. Known as the son of the tau` . abl, es : u ''' - P age produced (Sir Robert Walpole), and havr l P. t perif n e nearest friends and relatives members at differe n . , p 1 either of the Government or of the Opposition, ' l ' ; is tall,',o sible to imagine an individual more favourably cir cli . n d r r e than Horace Walpole to record the stirring scenes 7i n d t events which made the reign of George the Sec°,'" ) , try markable. But to these advantages must be addeu . p . 5, l' o o in pourtraying the characteristics of his contempore,ireti„ e r a vivacity in describing the scenes in which they Pt a - , ofr„j conspicuously, in which he is without a rival. In ' ti giliii e , work can the reader hope to become so thoroughly lu l le d( with the features of such statesmen as Sir Robert „,„' e lbs , ::; B o hnproke, Pulteney, John Duke of Bpeondfsestoor.d:.l::ol.,doi../ti, the lownshends, the Grenville!, Chatham Fostgen" AL',/ , ' other great names that ad, o t r i ried ugh th t e h C e3 a , bi an d th e— Ife" i or of Chesterfield, George Selwyn, &c.—politi l i to P tiosT ro blS who seemed to care much more for the reP5 ono' titan the tame of Seaator4 I pretensions to, both char a cter. . ont h:coltsvtsh - . f S i '' , ion ° 111 contribute not a l o tttle ll : Walter q xt /moth the h i aug;_l -st oacel lq ,:ii , statue in Edinburgh is to t . „9 1 " 0 ;p0n 5 much splendour, t o ~ which a procession of rre' BIRTHS „bleit Orr th e 18 t h i nst., at Dublin, the . lady of A. „t iler! Captain in th e 59th Regiment, of a dauibter. G2' l ° On the 21 s t i ns t., the lady of the Rev- ; Minister of St. M ar k' s , Horselydown, of a daug h .,...L e " . On the 22i1 inst., at Chipping Ongar, Esses, .rfs. Baker, of a son. On the 211 inst., at Bowden Hall, Gloucestershire' Hutchinson Swiny, of s son, still-born. On the 23d n at Cardiff, South Wales. teh lamm e d Major Ftaneklyn, 37th Regiment, of :t daughter. .et, On the `24th inst , Mrs. W a !lord, of Cliarlette-str— lord-square, of a sou. —_—__ MARRIED. ~, 05,.. bfr, .0. .. j At St. George's, lltinsg4te, Constantine Geotb - , asap of Lipner Clanton, to Sos min t Eli za b e th, young"' Sh s97' of the late .J. I'. Leigh, Esq ,01 Clanton. ' gorf.apriol l .; On the 21st inst. , at , ;:ighton, the R"V. M.A., of Arley Chanel, Ch es hi re . t o 1%1 , rg , W' G ret ris, i / it ' er mond, youngest daught er o f t h e R ev . Philip .4e of Marden, Kent. •-.4r.... • • _ . THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULV 25, 1846. should persist in their course of placing the statue in the proposed po Lord MORPETH said that his private opinion, which ()facie' responsibility could not altog:ther separate from him, was that he had certainly some misgivings upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.) When he succeeded to office he found that the preceding Government had given their consent to the parties who wished to erect the statue, and he did not therefore feel disposed to take the pleasure of her Majesty again upon the question. He wished that the subscribers could persuade themselves to accede to the offer which had been made previously by her Majesty's Government, but he did not think himself warranted in interfering in the subject. He would merely state that in a letter which had not been laid upon the table of the House, from Mr. Burton, it was stated that having examined the structure of the arch he was of opinion that it was sufficiently strong to support the weight of the statue, but he added that in his opinion there would be some difficulty in raising a statue of the weight of thirty or forty tons to the heigh 1 proposed by the committee. This is all, said the Noble Lord, I have to submit to the House.—(Laughter.) Sir F. TRENCH would state the real nature of the case. None of the committ ee h a d any o bj ect i on to the pro posed site—they only objected to the cost, and which side it should be upon; but the cost was decided upon and her Majesty's consent obtained a year before this objection was made. The next course to adopt was to determine the nature of the memorial, and is was agreed that the money subscribed by the public should be devoted to the erection of an equestrian statue of the Duke of Wellington on that arch. They afterwards found it impossible to adopt any other course than the one deter mined upon, as they were virtually appointed to effect that,object. The Queen gave her consent through Lord Melbourne to the site; a deputation of the Committee then waited upon the Duke of Wellington to announce their decision, and to congratulate him that he would have opposite his window the great tribute which the public of England intended to erect to a loyal servant of his country. On the Ist of June her Majesty re ceived the chairman of the committee, and gave her consent. On the 6th of June the whole of the sub committee went as a deputation to the Duke of Wel lington, on the matter of placing the statue in that position. On the 22d of June, and on the 3d of July, the letters which had been referred to appeared, written by a nobleman whom he was proud to observe had never attended the committee at all. It was part of the duty of the sub-committee to submit the plans which were proposed for the statue in ques tion, and as soon as her Majesty had given her consent to its being placed on the arch on Constitution-hill, they were so submitted, and the opinion then expressed was, that this was the best position for it. When the design for the statue now agreed was offered, and her Majesty's consent was obtained, a meeting of the general commit tee was called, which was very fully attended, there being no less than twenty-six members present. The result was, that after a deliberation, the proceedings of the sub committee were confirmed, there being but one of the members who objected to the statue being placed on the arch. He would ask the Hon. Member who so much objected to the proceedings of the sub-committee if it was right to charge that committee with indecent proceedings, or with exceeding their duty. They consulted the feelings of the general com mittee, and considered their duty was nothing but to carry into effect the wishes of the public. Ile considered the House of Commons was not a fit place to make such an application as had been made that night, but it should be made to the committee that was ap pointed on the 3d of July, 1839. He would take the liberty of calling the attention of the House to the opi nion of a Noble Lord on this subject, who was quite as competent to give an opinion as either the hon. mover or seconder of this motion. The Noble Lord to whom he referred was the Earl of Aberdeen, who stated, that after her Majesty had given her consent to placing the statue on the arch in the Green-park, and after the committee had taken steps to give validity to this by a resolution, he considered the question settled. Was it to be supposed that the sub-committee were obstinate. for it was impossible for them to take any other course ? He hoped the House would not commit the gross injus tice of doing that which he did not think they had a right to do, and which would be a great disrespect to the Crown ; her Majesty, having given her solemn pledge, ought not to be call e d u p on to reverse i t. H e hoped the House would not come to any such resolution as the one proposed, and which, he thought, would be a gross in justice. Mr. EWART then rose, but was for some time im perfectly heard. He maintained that, .first of all ; the subscribers ought to have been consulted ; next, the opinion of the architect, the gentleman who constructed the arch, ought to have been taken ; and, as much a s any, the sense of the country ought to have been attended to ; for he thought that if that wero considered, the gentlemen on the committee have attained no very en viable immortality. Sir IL H. INGLIS wished to state his single difficulty. It was that her Majesty had been pleased to give her consent, and yet this House was to ask her to withdraw that consent. But he believed that when her Majesty gave her consent it was given when no plan was laid before her Majesty exhibiting the statue as it was pro posed to stand. If so, the question was still open to the House. If the decision of the intelligent community of London—if the opinions of the Members of that House were taken seriatim—the vast majority of the community, as well as the Members of that House, would be in fa vour of not placing the statue where it was proposed to be erected. In conclusion, he suggested that the pre sent works should be at once suspended, and that the Government should be at the expense of carrying out one of the other plans, and thus obviate what he could not help thinking would be a great monstrosity. Mr. F. FRENCH said that the Committee would of course have to administer the moneys of those who had subscribed towards erecting a statue to the Duke of Wellington on the arch, because the greater part of the money was subscribed for that purpose. But he had no objection, if the proposition should be satisfactory to the House, to lay the opinion of the House on this subject before the committee.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and "No, no," in the midst of whi c h th e Hon. M em b er re• sullied his seat*, when Sir GEORGE GREY rose and said, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman would see, or rather infer, from the manner in which the motion had been entertained by the House, that they were averse to the placing of a statue upon the arch; and he (Sir G. Grey) must confess, after reading the correspondence to which allusion had been made, that he had a very strong objection to • the pro posal of the committee—(Flear)—but until the Hon. Member had submitted to the committee a statement as to the feeling of the House on the subject. He (Sir G. Grey) would not say that he would advise her Ma jesty to withdraw her consent to the erection of the statue on the arch, At the same time he must say that he should advise the House to listen to the proposal of the Hon. Member as to submitting a proposition to the committe.—(Hear, hear.) Sir F. TRENCH accordingly again rose and said that the Right Hon. Baronet had truly interpreted his feelings on the subject. He should indeed entertain the deepest regret if the statue were not allowed to be placed on the arch, and he would beg to say that if the statue were placed on the arch in the manner proposed by the Committee, it would be, in his opinion, one of the most magnificent ornaments to this groat metropolis. (Hear, hear, and great laughter.) He sincerely thought so, and he knew that there were a great many Members of the House who participated in that opinion.—(Hear, hear.) His proposition at present was, that the House . should delay expressing its opinion on the subject until he had an opportunity of stating to the committee what appeared to be the feeling of the House on the subject. —(llear, hear, and No, no.) He should be able to do that in the course of two days, and he hoped that the Hon. Member who had proposed the motion would, under the circumstances, withdraw it for the present —(Hear, hear, and Divide.) Lord MORPETH said, th 4 if the House consented to the withdrawal of the motion, he hoped that it would be understood that the Government would be empow ered to stop all the works.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. B ERKELEY— Mr. Speaker, with such an understanding, I have no objection to withdraw my motion, provided I have an assurance from the Noble Lord that the whole of the works are stopped—(Hear, hear)—and that they shall not be allowed to proceed with the statue until this House has expressed its opinion on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) Lord MORPETH—I think it is perfectly fair that the works should be entirely stopped till the com mittee signify their assent to the proposition that has been made, and till this House has an opportunity of deciding upon their resolution.—(Hear.) An Horr. MEMBER begged to ask the lion. and Gal lant Member whether the committee had not pledged themselves to erect a statue which should be satisfactory to the public? Sir F. T , RENCTI—They were required to erect a statue which should be satisfactory to She Treasury, and the Treasury are now hostile to it.--(Laughter.) The motion was then withdrawn, and the subject al lowed to drop. WAYS AND MEANS. The order of the day was then read for going into a Committee of Ways and Means. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the sum of 4,000,0001. should be granted out of the Consolidated Fund for the use of her Majesty's service. Motion agreed to. HALIFAX AND BOSTON MAILS. On reading the order of the day for going into a Corn. mittee of Supply, Mr. P. MILES rose, in pursuance of the motion of which he had given notice, to move for a Select Com mittee to inquire into the circumstances connected with the granting of the present contract for the conveyance of the mails from England to Halifax and Boston, and also into the circumstances connected with the granting of any new, or the extension of the existing contract for the same purpose. Although the Great Western Steam boat Company were in the habit of bringing letters and treaties for the Government, hitherto they had not re ceived a farthing of compensation, and he for one thought this was most unjust. It had repeatedly been pointed out to the proper functionary of the Government, that the contract for conveying the mail ought to be con ceded to that company ; and the late Government decided, just before going out of office, that no other contract should be signed until Parliament had had some opportunity of expressing an opinion upon the subject, but the present Government had disre garded this promise, and another contract had lately been entered into. What rendered it more important however that the matter should be inquired into was, that letters brought by the Great Western Company were always 'delivered in Liverpool, and he, therefore, begged to move the ansendruent of which be had given notice.—(Hear, hear.) Captain BERKELEY seconded the motion, because he thought monopolies of every kind ought to be done away with. The contract for conveying the mails to America aught to be thrown open to all the world, and he thought a company managed with so much spirit and fogru ao . Great Westekkst,e o Vo.34 G 9 111 4 11 dos • • served encouragement at the hands of her Majesty's Government. The country was justly proud of the Great Western Railway, and they ought to be no less proud of the Great Western steam-ship —(Hear, hear.) Well, then, let it he borne in mind that the company who had built that vessel was the first to prove that the Atlantic might be overcome by the power of steam; and during the Canadian insurrection they aff •rded con siderable service to this country in conveying and bring ing Government dispatches. Then, again, it was by the celerity of the Great Western steam-ship that the Right Hon. Baronet, the late Premier, was enabled to announce to the House, before quitting office, that the Oregon question was settled, and his announcement was confirmed by the Great Britain, another vessel belonging to the Great Western Steam-boat Company —(Heer, hear.) He thought, then, under thsse circumstances, the company deserved some of the patronage of the Go vernment, and it could not be bestowed upon them in a better way than by giving them a contract for carrying the American mails.—(Hear, hear.) It must be borne in mind, too, that besides doing great services for the Government, the company had done much to promote and advance the mechanical science of the country. They it was who first practically developed the screw system ; and he thought, at -all events, they were en titled to a hearing if they did not participate in the pa tronage of the Government. Mr. GOULBURN said, as be was the party who made the present contract fur the conveyance of the mails to America, he felt it incumbent upon him to say a few words. He should endeavour to show that the contract so made was the best for the public service. In 1839 steam navigation across the Atlantic was first esta blished, when Government advertised for parties to contract for carrying the mails to America, and as Messrs. Cunard were the only parties prepared to enter into such a contract, it was of course conceded to them. They were to provide three vessels, of three hundred horse-power each, to perform journies out and home, once a fortnight, and the Government agreed to pay them a compensation of 55,0001. per annum. It was subsequently found, however, that these vessels were not sufficiently powerful to navigate the Atlantic, and another contract was entered into, by which it was agreed that Messrs. Cunard should provide five vessels of four hundred horse power, which should be so built as to be made available for the service of the country in times of war. Shortly afterwards another arrange ment was made for the conveyance of the mails to the North American colonies, and it was this arrangement which induced the late Government to think it would be better to send the mails vie' New York instead of Boston. He said that the contract of 1841, not only required the conveyance of mails to North America twenty times a year, but gave the Admiralty power to require Mr. Cunard to put on vessels and double the number of mails for the year within nine months after notice. Shortly after this, a discussion arose as to the best method of conveying the mails to the North American colonies, and in 1845, a proposal was made by the United States of America to carry the mails overland to the colonies of the north, and it was thought better to have the mails carried by way of New York and not by Boston. He said, then, these mails had been regularly carried, as well during the winter months as when the season allowed of more certain voyages. The Government, however, instead of remunerating Mr. Cunard to the amount to which he was entitled by the contract of 1841, which should have been 180,0001., cut him down to 145,000/. for forty-four voyages a year. It had been stated by the Hon. Gentleman, that the cost was 4,500/. a voyage.---(The Hon. Member from the other side of the House "It was 4,5001.") He (Mr. Goul burn) would tell him what the original cent in whole was—it was 3,290/. But the proposal made by the other companies was severally 3,750/. and 5.000/. a voyage, so that, measuring Mr. Cunard's merits by the amount of remuneration given him, his superiority was established by that, as well as by the uniform regularity and asiduity with which he had discharged his duties. It had been asked why the Government had not ac cepted the tender of the Great Western Company, and kept open two routes to North America ? But he (Mr. Goulburn) would ask any gentleman, whether a Govern ment, maintaining a double line of mails, would not have exceedingly increased the expense to the country ? But, besides, that company proposed to give up running early in November, and begin again only in April. Mr Cu nard, on the contrary, against the anticipations of the Admiralty, had faced and overcome the difficulties of running across these seas during the winter months. One other object was looked to in establishing this mode of conveyance—that provisigne were made for a time of war as well as of peace, so that the mails might run at all times. This establishment, he said, owed its origin entirely to the activity of the colonists of Nova Scotia and the neighbourhood, and he, for one, should have been sorry to do anything against the zeal and the energy of these colonists. Lord CLEMENTS moved that it should be an in struction to the Committee to consider the advantage of the mails to Halifax starting from the western coast of Ireland. He said there was a gross neglect of Ireland. In Lord Grey's time the only admiralty station in Ireland had been removed, and since that time a route connecting the western coast of Ireland and North America had been asked and as often refused. He thought, then, that it would tend much to the conciliation of Scotland, and to a closer union between America and this country, if a railway crossed Ireland to the west coast, conveying the mails that way to America. Mr. CHRISTIE said that he thought one very strong point with the Hon. Gentleman who had brought for ward the motion, and of which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goulburn) on the other side of the House had taken no notice, was, that this contract had been signed two days after the late Government had tendered their resignation, and were holding office only till another Government should be formed. This had been brought before the House at the time by a question, and the pre vailing opinion then was, that the contract would not be signed till a Government was formed ; and indeed, the Noble Lord now at the head of her Majesty's Govern ment gave his assurance to the House that the contract would not he signed till further consideration had been given it. He hoped that some explanation of this would be given by some Member of the late Government, and also that a Committee would be granted to the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Bristol on the subject. Mr. GOULBURN begged to explain that everything but the actual signature to the contract was done in this matter Ilifore the resignation of her Majesty's late Ministers. Mr. SPOONER said, in answer to the remark, that Mr. Cunard was the first gentle man that had traversed the Atlantic in the winter time ; that the reason was, that he was the only gentleman that had been paid for doing so.—(Hear, hear.) The fair way would have been to offer to both companies remuneration for the carriage of the mails. The public did not complain of the manner in which Mr. Cunard had carried out the terms of his contract—every one must admit that he had carried it out in a most satisfactory manner.— (Hear, hear.) The public, he contended, should be made cognisant of the terms of all contracts of this description.—(f fear, hear.) The Government had kept all t is matter in the dark, and of that the public had a right to complain. He had no doubt that his Right Honourable Friend had done his best to wards securing the ablest contractor for the carriage of mails ; but he had at the same I time deprived the public of cornpetition.—(Hear, hear.) A most dangerous precedent had been esta blished, and he hoped that the House would grant this Committee, for the purpose of making a full inquiry into the matter. Mr. GISBORNE said that his commercial consti tuents highly disapproved of the conduct of the late Go vernment on this subject. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Goulburn) had no doubt given a most satisfactory answer to the Hon. Member for Weymouth (Mr. Christie) as to the signing of the - contract, but he had not, in the course of his observations, exculpated himself from the charges of unfairness and injustice which had been brought against him. If the late Go vernment could show that they had acted justly, the public would of course be satisfied ; but be was afraid that they could not. Under these circumstance s , he hoped that th e present Government would grant the in quiry asked for.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MARK PHILIPS said that as this subject created a great excitement out of doors, he sincerely hoped that a Committee might be granted, for the eir pose of justifying the conduct of all parties concerned, and showing the public that no unfairness had,heen committed. He believed that the commercial interests of this country were greatly indebted to the Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Canceller of the Exchequer, for the manner in which he had exerted himself in obtaining for the country the earliest possible means of communica tion with the United States, but he thought that he had acted very prudently in establishing a monopoly in favour of Mr. Cunard. He was most anxious that- the Com mittee should bar granted, that the whole question might be fully and fairly inquired into, so that the abuses, if In any y v o s t u i e n h g i d o i r d t r e i s a t p , p m oi i n g t h m t e b n e t o r f e m t h o e v e c d o . — um ( I i I t t e e a e r : h h e e a by) . y ) no means meant to throw any discredit on Mr. Cunard, or any other party.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL hoped there would be no opposition whatever to the appointment of this Committee.— (Hear, hear.) The late Government were of opinion that Mr. Canard was entitled to the late contract; Indeed he (Sir R. Peel) felt confident that if the late Govern ment had left office before the contract was signed, the members of the Government that followed them would have signed it. Had the contract not been signed by the late Government, they would have been guilty of a most shabby act. lie therefore hoped that the Committee asked for would be appointed.--(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after giving a brief history of the circumstances connected with tile gratiting . of the contract to Mr. Cunard,‘said that he felt that that gentleman was the ablest person with whom the Government could have contracted for the conveyance of the mails to the United States, but he was by no means opposed to the appointment of a Coin mittej, which would afford the House an opportunity of inquiring into the whole of the circumstances.—(Hear.`, He did not wish to say a word calculated to annoy the South-Western Company; they were fully entitled to stand well with the public ; they were the first to con struct large steamers to cross the Atlantic, and they had made at their own cost a great experiment lately with the splendid steam-ship the Great Britain. It was the duty, however, of the Government to make the best bargain► they could for the public. He was so satisfied with the course the Government had taken that he should bo the last person in the world to object to such a Committee as moved for by the Hon. Member. The adoption of such a course at the present time w. lead, however, to the stoppage of the supplies, s,nd hoped, therefore, that tha Hon. Member would not press his motion. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. ABUSES IN THE MILBANK PRISON. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved, pursuant to notice, that the petition of Mr. Edward Baker, presented on the 12th of June, complaining of certain abuses existing in the Milbank Prison, be referred to a Select Committee. ,He 4410 KoP9§ o mikg,ogiagisglesetiom of 4104)44, tioner. The petition contained a number of charges of . cruelty and misconduct against the Governor of the prison towards the persons co, fito d in that prison. These charges mild, he thought, be all substantiated, if a Select Committee were appointed to inquire into the I subject. One of the charges wag that the prisoners were sentenced to seven days' confinement, upon bread and water, for opening their bibles and reading - therein during the time of ttivine service. Another case was that of a prisoner who was sentenced to receive 100 lashes for cutting a cat on the wall with a pair of scissors; • and that, in consequence of this corporal pun ishment, he had been confined for a period of ten weeks, during which he was not allowed any religious instruc tion, nor was the chaplain allowed to visit him. In the former ease the Governor ha.; exceeded his duty by confining the prisoner for seven days, for by the regu lations of the prison he had only the power of confining a prisoner for three days. As to the second case, the prison regulations regarding corporal punishment, it was ordered that no whip should be used except such as had been approved by the prison inspectors, and which had their seal upon the handle. In this case, however, the night before the punishment was to take place, the governor sent out for a lash of double the weight, which lash lie.) had wound round with wax cord, which in creased the severity of the punishment to a considerable extent. There was also the case of a prisoner who was flmveeredas, and kept on b rea d an d skeleton. F o ur su i c id es h a d n 'a- d twelve p r i soners had attempted to confined bwea etleir,coitinlflmo he et t t w ed • d e i e, n d t: commit suicide, but had been prevented in consequence of the vigilance of the warders There was another practice to which he would call the attention of the House. Th e governor was in the habit of raising a false alarm of fire, and a hundred and twenty persons have been called up out of their beds in the depth of winter for what is called " fire practice;" and this was in the habit of being done for the purpose of entertain ing the dinner friends of the governor. There were also charges of favouritism, and numerous others, which he would not then detain the House by entering into. An inquiry into these charges ought to take place, and it would facilitate the solution of the problem of the best method to treat the criminal. He said it advisedly, and in his place in that House he was prepar d to prove every charge which was alleged in the motion. Sir G. GREY said an inquiry was made already by the Government into the facts, and the charges were re ported not to have been substantiated. There had been only four suicides out of 11,000 persons who had been committed, the whole convict population that were sentenced to be transported passing first through Mil bank. He would promise to lay before the House the report, and it the House t:id not consider that report sufficient, he would agree to any inquiry the Hon. Mem her chose, Mr. HUME said, after the frightful atrocities which were daily coming to light from the Andover Committee, his confidence was xceedingly shaken in persons who were possessed of authority. He would, therefore, re commend the adoption of the suggestion of the Hoe. Member. Captain PECHELL would recommend his Hon. Friend to persevere, Jime the public would not be satisfied, after the charges that had been made, that an inquiry should be delayed. . Mr. SPOONER considered that the lion. Member would ceme with a stronger case to the House if he would consent to the suggestion. Mr. AGLIONBY said he hoped no delay would take place. An inquiry should be made, and not postponed; the characters of public servants were involved, and that rendered investigation imperative. The former was conduct , d in the walls of a prison, with no one present to represent the accuser, and it was alleged that answers were put in the mouths of the witnesses, and that their answers were stop,:ed wh‘n they seemed to imply the truth of the charges. The public would never be satisfied unless there was a full - and searching investigation. Mr. E WART said, that only one side of the case was referred to the inspectors, and consequently the investi gation was of little use. He considered that a geod case was made out for an inquiry, and he should support the motion. Sir R. INGLIS said that the Right lion. Gentleman the Secretary of State, merely stated that the House was not yet in a condition to pronounce an opinion on the subject, and merely asked tOr a brief delay till he made inquiry into the allegations. He thought such a course was the proper one under the circumstances. He would support him. Mr. B. ESCOTT supported the motion. He thought the inquiry should be granted, as it was 'a very fit sub ject for the House to investigate, and he could not un derstand why it-was refused. Mr. CHRIS HE would vote for the inquiry without hesitation. The report referred to by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State ought to have been laid on the table before this. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would grant the Committee. Mr. HENLEY opposed the motion. IF the House went into inquiries of this sort there would be no end to them. The course proposed by the Right Hon. Gen tleman was the proper one under the circumstances. The House then divided when there appeared— For the motion Against it Majority The House then went into Committee of Supply. BRITISH MUSEUM. Sir R. INGLIS proposed that the sum of 45,4061. be granted to defray the expenses of the British Museum. Mr. HUME said that the present was a large sum, compared to what was formerly granted to that esta blishment. He thought there should be a responsible board of manuaers to superintend the outlay of so large a sum of money. There was no establishment in the country where so large an amount was granted without some control on the part of this House, yet this board was wholly i-responsible. The trustees consisted of as ot t rih b erhe r eea e sr e eebnf, : etu l a a wlsr S tyd s wsPi was individuals. is f y t high hwdoau plt shon. o s7oe ffi tmd c lon i no a nn lfaeftBmeoe3moxe6nterm, management tama a nnfee:l Committee h ono emdb intoji askedeicidtttthuiobjectionable individuals, b r a al ntendh sug gestedandt forming a responsible board; the propriety and, with the exception of the raising the salaries of the officers of the institution, which amounted altogether to 19,0001., no other recommendation of that Committee was attended to. He thought a change should take place 'in this system. He was really at a loss to know what branch of the Government to address on the sub ject, but he hoped the matter would be taken up, for the public would require that a responsible body be ap pointed. On Tuesday and Thursday the Mnsetins was open only to private parties. That was the system of exclusion carried on ; and he wished to know why a public institution should be open only to private parties. The public servants were compelled to attend on those days, and he thought that while the public money was ex pended every well conducted person ought to be admitted. It might be said that it was for the benefit of artists. He had inquired of artists, and he was informed that they went on all days whether the Museum was attended or not, so that this excuse was invalid. There was another point which required attention, and that, was whether the Museum should be open after five o'clo .k. The experiment was tried, but it did not suc ceed, for only seven persons per hour entered after that time, and yet nearly 60 persons were required to be in attendance. If he had the power the Museum should remain open on Sundays, for it would afford a means of amusement to the artisans, which would keep them from the gin-shop. During the hours that the gin-shops were open, he would open the National Gallery and the. British Museum in competition. The artisans were fond of going to the country on Sundays, but on rainy days they had no resource but the gin -shop, unless they adopted such measures. He would no longer detain the Committee from more important business, but would earnestly press white he had said on the attention of the Government. In the year 1843 no less than 247,929 persons went over the establishment, and in 1845 no less than 685.858 persons went over it. So large an attendance required more and better attendance than was at present employed He regretted, however, to state that the number of visitors to the reading-room had decreased, as well as the number of artists who used to attend. He did not make these observations from any unwillingness to give the money, but he certainly conceived that when so large a sum was expended, it ought to be made as useful as possible. He therefore recommended to his Hon. Friend the course which he had pointed out, in order to effect the saving he had wished. Mr. EWART entirely agreed with the tenor of his Hon. Friend's remarks, but he did not mean to address his observations to the whole establishment, but simply to the library. On the continent any man might enter a public library without any restriction, and receive the greatest civility from the librarians. In the British Museum the rules were, that before any p erson cou ld go to read in the room, he must be introdu ce d b y some per son of respectability, or high rank. Any recommenda tion from a public man was the only sat i s f actory reference, and the only one which w ou ld ob tteamin existed dssion nowherefor the but aipuplicant. Such a sys tem w y as n a o public evil. more, as he England. H e wou ld also ask, what was the use bf the nunaber of duplicates of books ? Could they not found a not h er b ud publicly accommodation. uel y called attention library at Westminster with them , and so afford in creasedStr R. H. INGLIS said, that the complaint made by the Hon. Member for Montrose was, that there was n o responsibility for the expenditure of this large suin. He He to would wbat say begged to say, that the responsibility existed with the trustees, and it remained with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to see their recommendations carried out. The Hon. Member also said that the management should be vested in a Board of iVlanagement ; but that, he thought, would not be a wise course, nor would it lead to a better system of management than now, Th e Honourable Member had also said that the Museum was only open for three days a week, but this was nut the fact. It was really open for fi ve . days, There were certain days open to the general public, while Tuesdays and Thursdays were open for artists and men of science. Ho thought it was of great advantage to the public that t h ese parties should have the opportunity of pursuing their studies in quietness, which could not be the case if large bodies of people Were passing through, and therefore it was a wise and proper arrangement to have three days for the public, and two for those engaged in artistic and scientifi c pur suits. With regard to children, it had been objected that they .hould be denied admission under eight years of age ; but as some limit must be made, he thought that age a reaso na bl e p er i o d of limitation. Before that age, there was some danger of damage being done unl ess. 44;t1dren were well looked after. The Hon. Member who "laiii , addressed the House (Mr. Ewart)conlplaineMOf the way in which the library was managed, and the difficulty of parties not being admitted w ithout a pass. He (Sir R. IL Inglis) believed that in Faris passes had to be ob tained before parties could be admitted into the public library. Mr. EWii.RT said that he had bean repeatedly in the Paris library, and no pass whatever was required. • at*. 0C44,5 sairiage,Y4 o 4 4 4 tot i le .040 which the *British 'Mußenal was epen they would find it was open for a erca" r number of hours in the tear ihan any other in Europe. Ile could also inirrin the house Mu: 65000 nersons had read in the library I yeir, ereati:r number of prrsons than had read in any other library on the Continent. It was a gratifying fact that not only the visitors but the readers of the library had increased greatly during the last few years. The former, according to the returns, had increased three fold the last six years. In speaking of foreign libraries, and the access given to them, it ought to be observed that there were secret police inside of them to watch over the proceedings going on, whereas they had no such thing as police inside of the British Museum.— (Hear, hear.) lie begged leave to apologise for occupy ing the flop-e so lone in the ixplanation he had made. Mr. P. BORTII WICK said, in speaking of the readers of Ihe Paris library as compared with the British Museum, they ought to hear in mind that Pat is was a much sicaller c]ty than 14 , .nd0n. Lie considered they might adopt, wi:h advantage, the liberal arragements ot the French Government. Sir D. NORREYS wished to remind the Hon. Member who last spoke, that the Paris library was only open to the public For two days in the week. Mr. BORTH WICK, in answer to that, would inform the House that he knew from his own knowledge that the library was open every day for students and those who wished to read Sir 1). NORREYS thought a Museum of this kind ought to be a truly national institution and embrace within it specimens in every department of science and art, ho h national and historical relics, and specimens of architecture. An 11,N. MEMBER said he saw there was a sum of 10,000/. put down for the purchase of old books, now he wisted to know what this was for? Sir R. 11. INGLIS replied that the parties who had charge of the library had made an elaborate report to the trustees, in which they pointed out its deficiencies, and amongst these deficiencies the library was sadly de fective in its stock ot old books. On the fact being communicated to the Treasury, they generously agreed to devote 10,000/. a year for purchasing collections of old books to supply the deficiency. The vote was then agreed to. NAVY ESTIMATES. Mr. WARD, in submitting to the House the remairz der of the navy estimates, chimed the indulg.-rce,of the House in conssqueree of the slier time he had held hie office, and said that had it nut be, n for the liberal aesis tance afforded to him by his predecessor, he should have been unable to undertake the task. He then recapitu lated the votes which had been already granted by the House for the number of men and wages, and proceeded ei say that on vote No. 2, victual- for seamen arid marines, there was an increase of 34,5031. in consequence of the rise which had Oren place in the price of provisions. To vote 4 he wished to call the attention of the Hoese ; it was for a general register and record office for seamen. The depart [emit was very ably matiaged by Lieutenan. Brown, and it had operated as a great check upon de sertion in the merchant service, and also very bene ficially as regarded apprentices. lie looked upon this office es a link between the royal navy and the merchant service, the resource from which an efficient sup ply of trained sailors might he drawn in a case of need ; and with, perhaps, slime additional inducement to enter the neve, might, perhaps, prove the only rational sub stitute ftr tee power of impressment. No subject woulti more occupy the attention tie hi colleagues during the coming recess than this.—(Hear. hear.) With respect to the seamet 's fund, the Board had been pressed to re vi.e a Bill introduced by the late Vice-President of the Board t,f Trade, but it had net been thought advisable so to do. The subject, however, should receive the fullest eonsideratieti (hiring the recess. On the stile tific branch of the estimate he would only remark that the in crease wets only 4701., and proceeded to the next vote, which was for the staff of the dockyards and fleet at home, on which there was an increase of only about 1,0004 The next vote was for the foreign establishments, arid amounted to 3,902/, being an in crease of 945/ over that of last year. Vote No. 8 was a large one, being for the wages of artificers and labourers eirpleyed in the home establishments, and it amounted to 43 7201. The increase in the vote was caused by the increased repairs lately rendered necessary, anti partly by the substitution of tree fur convict labour, in the dockyards, which was a considerable item in the expenditure. Upon vote No. 10 for naval stores there was a considerable increase Over last year The total of the present vote was 1,636,426/, less 57,726/. for credits, and the increase was 437,2851., which had been caused by the increase of our establishments towards the close of last year, and the large purchases of hemp, coal, timber, and steam machinery which were consequently necessary. Vote No. 11 was for new work% improve ments, and repairs, and the net increase upon this item over last year was 40.464/. A principal expense had been the substitution of iron roofs for those of wood over the building slips, an improved plan, which he hoped would be generally adopted on account of the safety which was thus obtained ageinst accidents and loss by fire. Other items of expenditure under this head were 240,000/. for the new steam basin, and 200,000/. for the steam factory at Portsmouth ; but considering the creations of steam machinery on the French coast, it was impossible that this country could with respect to her own credit and safety remain behind. —(Hear, hear.) The remaining votes were as follow: Medicines, medical stores, &e., 21,273/.; miscellaneous service, 71.075/ ; half-pay to officers of the navy and royal marines, 705,4481.; military pensions for naval service, 486,3221.; for packet service, 544,5871.; civil pen sions—freight on account of the army and ordnance departments, 166,6261.; freight on account of the home department, 92.8591 ; Post-offiee department (packet service).673,lBol This list item defrayed the expenses of the operations of the packet service department is all quarters of the world to which our empire ex tended. He had gone through all these items with as much brevity as possible, and he trusted that he had not trespassed unwarrantably on the attention of the House.—(Hear, hear.) No doubt the expendi ture was very large—seven and a half millions—and it was only right that the most accurate scrutiny should be exercised—(Hear, hear)— but he did not think that it could be shown that the amount of the esti mate exceeded the requirements of the case.—(Hear. hear.; For what had passed the present Beard of Ad miralty was nut responsible. They had taken the vote , and accounts as they had been bequeathed to them bi their predecessors, but they must stay that they could en no sufficient grounds for flitch) e fault with them.— (Hear, hear.) He would not hold out delusive hop.s as to the future. He thought there was nothing more to be desired than candour, and in candour he was bowie to say that he did not think that any reduction in this estimate was either desirable or probeble, or cv in posse bin, as bin, as the naval estabhshrnents of tither come tries continued on the same fooAng that they now occu pied. In his opinion it would not be safe, nor fit, nor honourable for England again to run the risk which, on at least two occasions in the course of the last five years, she had incurred of being taken unawares and at disadvantage in the event of any unfereseen emergency suddenly ari-ing.—(Hear, hear.) Such had ben the neglect of •lisir naval establishments, that r f ( p ee ,,t e ,, i e t i l u te i r r i e s f l a t t l i e m s s e v‘ o i c t c h as t i t e i r::! r a ( e l yi ,u s n ud trie e s n h r , t , i d p rupture or fortunately occurred, we should have been found totally unprepared for warfare. Such a state of things ought never again to be permitted.—(Hear, hear.) It was be• cause of a not unnatural unwillingness on the part of the authorities of the Admiralty to cause alarm amongst other nations that su'h a state of things had arisen, and that there was unhappily wanting that concentration of resources, which in a great naval establishment was es tentially requisite, in order that the country might not he vulnerable, and which had not been realised until within a very recent period.—(Hear, hear.) Up to the present time Woolwich was the only steem . factoi'y of any description we possessed, those at Plymouth and Portsmouth not being as yet complete ; and surely it could not be contended that this was sufficient for oura e s ter regard r a being n had and to on otherthe foreignpa rtparts o s f t steam navies e world. There was one desirable reform which he was exigencies, on th e edi very anxious to see accomplished—he meant an im provement in the mode of manning the navy, for he did not think it was right or at all judicious to rely on the system of improvement for meeting any very serious emergency.—(Hear, hear.) It was a coarse and rude expedient, not to be trusted to for the manning of such a navy as that of England in the event of a maritime war.—(Hear, hear.) It was unsafe and imprudent to have recourse in such an emergency to untrained and unskilful men, who knew nothing of the practice or science of gunnery.—(Hear.) It would be better far to fall back upon the judicious system of recalling those elements of strength, which were now s ca tt ere d a l _ _ over the world—the seamen engaged in our mercantile navy.—(Hear, hear.) Besides, he considered the habit which now prevailed a foolish and irrational one, that of disbanding and breaking up the whole crew of a ship when she came home after a voyag,e. and leav ing the men with perhaps no other resource for livelihood than to go into foreign services.—(frear. hear.) These were matters which must engage the serious attention of the present Board of Admiralty, whose object it should be to improve on the example of their predecessors. Their principal study should be to organise, complete, and systematise the plans which already existed. and to propose such new ones as might seem good. He (At-. Ward) felt no hostility to any country whatever, nor entertained any aggressive view in any quarter.—(Hear, hear.) lie twit as deep an anxiety as any other person could possibly entertain, that the world's peace should be preserved, but he was sure that the bi.st stcurity for the continwinee of tran quillity and good order was the conviction on the part of other nations, that as far as we were concerned, we. would not permit a breach of peace to be attempted with impunity.—(Hear, hear.) Our strength was the best security for the peace of the world—(Hear, hear) —end this conviction on the part of other countries would be best promoted by a proper organisation of the vast resources in ships end men, which England p os . sessed to such a❑ extent, and which, it made available, would still continue to render this country the Ina- t illustrious for her maritime er , tahlishment it, the world. The question having been put on the first vote, Sir C. NAPIER admitted that he had listened with great pleasure to the speech of the Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the Admiralty, who had shown a degree of information which was exceedingly creditable to him, and which it was Ittil , e.d not a Ibtle surprising to find in e lle who had been for so short a time in the department with which he was at present connected.--(Hear, hear.) He was really at a loss to think how the lion. Gentle- Trilvo .matvg o to hav e concentrated such a mass of in formation within so f3rW a period. He had aminged it, too, in a systematic and perspicuous manner, and he (Sir Charles Napier) could with truth affirm that a clearer elucidation of the who'e system of the navy he had never heard. He concurred unreservedl y i n almost (14.44- erery pr o p os iti o n that hal fall en from the Hon. Gentleman, and particularly approved of wh a t h e h a d said ',,l'espeeting the mode of manning the navy.— Wal-A144 i(4k4utoly t 430 tom, . opinion with .the lion. Member as to its be g rx ceedingl, improper and, indeed, exec( tritie-ly dish ree arable t teis country, that tire navai establ'shinent should ever be in r•-u-h a condi - lon thet in the event of a sudden emergency` we should 1 - ,‘ tak n at a disadvantage.—(Hear, hear.) Evert thing ought certainly to be ready at a moment's warnine, so that we might never be taken by surprise,—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the new Board of Admiralty would look vigilantly to the discharge of their duties, and display more zeal and ability than their predecessors in office, of whom, by the way, he was surprised to find that only one had thought it worth his while to be present in his place on the present occasion. --(Hear.) . The mode of manning the navy was unquestionably a matter. of the most serious importance. In the year 1841 it vies the opinion of him (Sir C. Napier), and of several ether naval officers whose opinions might be supposed to be of s o m e ealee, that the navy was very imperfectly manned. The Riglallon. Baronet, who then came into power, ad mitted that he was of the same opinion, and ac cordingly introduced a scale on which the service was for the future to be supplied, but he did not, follow up his own system, and the consequence was that there was still great cause of complaint in this department. No ships, it had been said, were for the future to. be sent out to sea which were not manned in admirable style. There were, however, seven or eight sail of the line which were now afloat. Would it be contended that the sail of the line now afloat were manned in admirable style? Quite the contrary. He had no hesitation in saying they were improp rly manned. If they were in spected, it would be found that they were manned not .witie a first-rate crew, but with a crew two nets below that, and that the ships were filled up with marines.— (Hear, hear.) He asked any naval officer in command of a man-of war whether he would prefer having the number of marines on board doubled, rather than to have her properly manned with competent seamen?— (Hear, hear.) The system was a most improper one, and he protested against it accordingly. The Gallant Officer opposite (Captain Berkeley), whom he was de lighted to find again a Lord of the Admiralty, had left that department some years ago under circumstances as honourable as those under which any public man ever resigned office.—(Hear ) He went out because he could not see the navy manned as he wished it to be. It was to be hoped that his opinion on this important subject had undergone no ehange, but that now that he was in •.ffice, he would abide manfully by the views which he had promulgated so emphatically when out of power, and take care that no ships should go to sea that were not manned in the first style, and in all respects pro perly equipped.—(Elear, hear.) He trusted that if the Gallant Officer and the other new authoritieS at the Ad miralty manifested a desire to effect these desirable charges, the llouse of Commons would back then xa lously, .and supply them in a generous spirit with the funds requisite for carrying these prrjects -nto exeriu tion,-(Hear.) • He would not, on the present occasion, trespass on the attentiun of the House by discussing the votes one by one, having on Tuesday evening addressed thein on the subject at considerable length ; but there was one vote he could not forbear alluding to. It was that which was designed to cover the expenses of 'the dockyards and naval stores. The money here . votsd appeared to him to be quite too pro fuse. If any thing like order or economy had pre- Ya-led-he.certainly did think that they might have dimi nished a million and a half of money in the xpenses of ;he dock yards and stores.—(llear, -hear.) He had here again to complain, a. he had cempiairred a thousand times before, of the grosi defects of our present system a naval architecture. The ships which were constructed under that systetu—he wou:d not say . of them LILA the) were absolute failure,—but he certainly thought, and every naval officer must say the same, LII:J.L they were, had men-of-war. They looked very chsrtmegly in harbour, but to judge of them preperly you shouel see them in a gale et* wind, when it would be found that they would roll 45 degrees leeward, and 43 degrees windward. He trusted that the-new Board of Admiralty would perceive the evils of the present system, and ac knowledge the necessity of adopting a new plan. There was another point he was anxious to allude to. He meant the enormous expense which had been incurred since 1801) in cutting down'ships of war. They had recently taken f air 72 curt ships and four frigates—good men-of-war, or t least fair men of-war—and these they had cut down to make block-ships of.—(llear.) The practice was an inexcusable one: Why should men-of. war be thus eacri fice.t? If block ships were required, what was easier than to take old hulks, mount - guns on them, and to tow them by steam boats to the positions it was desirable they should occupy? The cost of repairing these,block ships had been set down at 18,000/, but he would take upon, him to say that the cost of these ships would not be less than twenty thousand pounds a piece.— (Hear, hear.) Independent of that, there were engin+ s put into them at an enormous expense, and he would answerfor this, that those four sail of the line and four frigates, when transmogrified into block-ship , , would cost no less than half a million of money. Let them but wait until they had obtained a bill of expenses, and they would find that they would cost little less than the sum he had mentioned: And what was the use of them? Why, they would be absolutely useless. They would be put in dock with the machinery on board, and they would be totally useless altogether Perhaps he would be told, •` Oh, no, those vessels are intended to go to sea ; we will send them into the Downs." He (Sir C. Napier) asked, could they not send six vessels into the Downs with the same facility ? Now, suppose those block-ships wero in the Downs and a westerly wind set in, and the enemy instead of going to the Downs pro ceeded to Plymouth, those block-ship; might be able to sail not more than five or six mil. a an hour, while the enemy's vessels could sail ten or twelve miles in the same time, and what then, he (Sir Charles Napier) risked, what then'-would become of the block-ships ? (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to their steam-boats, he complained of the mode in wnich they were built. He went on board of one the other ::ay in Woolwich, and she was exactly in the same position as the first steam boats they had built, and the engines and other parts were exposed to shot. He, therefore, conceived that they should change the present system. It was per fectly easy to do so, and he was sure that they would find that it would do a great deal of good. He had been allowed to build a steam man-of war, and he had arranged that it should carry provisions for two hundred men, but when he went to look at the esteblislunent of the Sidon, a paper from the Admiralty was shown to him, and that paper stated that she was to carry provisions for 240 men. But if they were to tit her out with a view to carry the order of the Admiralty into execution, she would, like other steam bats, be too deep in the water to be Useful.—(Hear. hear.) He would suggest that the present Board of Admiralty should forte) some sort of commission, to investigate arid report what was th=l• proper system of building steam Pats. and thus save the country from the error useus lasses to which it was subject during every year for the lest t wenty years. The Secretary of the Admiralty had said that steam boats were in their infarcy. Yes, they were so in the navy ; but it was not so in the merchant service. They were in their infancy for the last twenty years in the navy, and hew long would it be before they came to Maturity ? If th.y went to Scotia-A,. Liverpool, and Ireland, they would find steem•boats beloeging to the merchant service that c earl ',Land every weather-(Hear.) Sir G. COCKBURN ff It, alter the statement which had been me& by the Gallant Oifiser on his left (Sir Charles Napier) that it was quite right he shoulei say a word on the subject. In the first-place, it was said that after they (the late Board of Admiralty) came into office, they agreed in thinking that shipssof-war should go to sea fully manned ;but at the same time, with re spect -to the ships that were kent in the Channel, he explained at the time--two or three years ago—he telt that they could exercise those ships without being fully manned. They were enabled, with tee sum they got from Parliament, to send mere vessels where they were wanted—tor instance, to Brazil and China—than if they had those vessel: of the line fully manned at home. As to sending a doulde number of marines on board, it was exceedingly useful if they were looking out for the chance of a war, for a portion of them were lately en listed, who were fit to act as soldiers, but it was ne cessary to have some experience at sea.--(Hear, hear.) He was old enough to remember the last war, when they were obliged to put soldiers on board, and they all got dead sick.—(Hear, hear.) In the event of a war they had now a vote for 40,000 men; but if they had the vessels fully manned, they should have 43,000 or 44,000 men. They should, he repeated, send the marines to sea, to get sea legs, and give practice to the officers and men. As to the next charge, with respect to the cutting down of the block-ships, the House would remember that it was not a proposal of the Admiralty at all. There was an order from the Government to appoint a commission to visit all their ports, and see what was necessary to be done for-their protection, in consequence of the French having got a steam navy. That commission went round to the different ports, and -the recommendation ; of that commission was adopted by the Government, requiring that a certain number of line-of-battle ships and of frigates, should be prepared to aid the batteries in the different petitions in which they might be attacked, and it was thought wise that a screw propeller should be put to each of them to enah:e them to shift their positron from side to side, where the attack of the enemy made it necesary. One of those vessels was to be completed with the screw, and the order was that others were not to be completed until that one was tried. His Hon. and Gallant Friend had stated that they had not a steamer that was a periect man-of-war. They had often heard that statement before, and it was contra dieted over again. He might mention an officer known to the country, Sir Edmond Lyoes, now 11,1inisti r of Greece, and in his opinion the Terrible and I/Nast:a -1 tion were most erlici vessels. The Ginn .1. (Fren c h vessel) was not to be compared to the Devatriatie e; and it was quire right in his (Sir G. Cockburn'-) o pi n i on they had ships of the size in France, that in England the seine de" • they ehould have some ships of tion, and therefore it was that those ships w. descrip tion,e built. Sir CHARLES NA.PIER sail thet what he said wes that not one of our stearn-rassele was fitted for ' war, as their b and their werk; acre l ss: t h a l,..! ,ll ,h an t - ' ( !a f- t a shot would a remently injure them. int he de sired was that tire Government would order a survey ef the spansdwelt!. and rep rrt what vees, Is w e re fit for ear. R ERKELEY . con;ider e d that there had been too much amateur building of vessels for service. The difficuly wits to have their men of-war properly monied; and he, in his official capacity. would erdeavour to remedy that dee-ct. " Captain PECIIELL was not one of those who were accustomed to assert that they had not a good and serviceable navy.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the promise given would be persevered in. gavet him great eatisfaction to have heard what had failed from the Hon. Member, the Secretary of the Ad miralty, with regard to the manning of our ships; and he hoped that when he found himself under such restric tions as not to be able to do justice to the British sea men, he would at once give up his post of authority. The Hon. Secretary had very clearly explained the amount of votes, but he had not shown so distinctly how f he intended to apply them. They had not been told I Agit Woloft lig 40904 Diu) J o hn On the 19th i ns t., at S.. ut h,m;pton, the Rev ' Gooch, Rectsr of Bin e g a r„S omerse i s kire. 11 1 0 og in° On the 20th i ns t., at Ki n g stow n;R ea r-Admira l • r a til• On the 214 inst., at Gravesend, R. I's`l., to, g fr On the 22dinst., at Beaumont-street, Portlo4l—~uUet ChergQ Foreman. Newin gton, 11 bert On the 22d inst., at Stoke Newio , Mr • relict of the 10 t;vans. On the 23d inst., at B r ixton, M r s. Biggs, Mr. R. Biggs, of I"' • ' —": London: Printed and Publish e d by A:CRLIO YOU. 0 , Pre el %a Strand, Printer, at The St,4 Othee, K 0.112. strand.oatudgi ah of the S - T uoh thi , . c froa t ir $40.04 0462 A tb,,, or b e , f w 4