The Sun. — London, England, 1805-06-03 00:00:00

REPORT FROM THE SELECT COMMITtEF. OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.ON TiiNTH- REPORT; (Conthfued(ront our Paper', of Satursiqy), The Examination. of A. Titrivrra, Esq. taken before the Committee on the Tenth NaVal Report, 3d May, 1805. State to the Committee .what sums were applied, to . services not naviil of the monies issued forthe,ser *ices of the Navy under. the Treasureqhip of , LOrd Melville, to what an.:(:unt, and at what time.---Lord' Melville never. mu 6 any; information upon the at)... plitation Of , monies issited Under such cirolunsitances, and I.only kid& 'of the inun Ltlluded tO having been itpplied : to other serviefi; horn the circumstance •of its having been returned by a per Son acting in an other department,of Government. Naas that sum ? ---40;o001. as -far as I . and inform&l , ; it was riot .issued by me. by wlv was, it issued ?—I believe by Mr, Wil son; who oiliciated for tne during my absence, hav= big heou at that, time in Scotland. the , date (4: tile issue ?, 7am nut ena bled to infOrni you with any degree of accuiney, but', 1 think it must baVe been some time between the middle of August and theend of October, in the.. year 170. .Was llir. Wilson employed to transact business for yon during yotu - absence ?...-110 was in the habit of officigting for me, but not under' any regular po\Ver, when I .was, absent from the office, By. what authority or power could Me:' was6l 4 issue: such "40,0001. left him ill possession of. (hafts upon the Bank of England, signed by myself as Attorney to the . .. Treasurer, Were those drafts . filled up by yourself for certain surns7 or Vat - ix signature left to fAanks in Mr. Wil son's possession ?—,My si'gnaturi) was affixed to blaiiks in , Mr. Wilson's posse' ion, and . which 1 necessary to carry On th 6 I.l.iill4SS of the Pay. ; orrice to priwent the accident, in the case of my ill ness or occasional absence," of the Cashier's making', Unexpected or sudden'dentands for •the public ser- vice. Were the blanks ,for the names .as well as the , sums-F.:ft %----`l`ll.ey'were. Had you communications with Mr. Wilson dur ing . votw , absence on the subject of the 'accounts of the ljaY , Office, I 'had. Are those communications preserved ?--rThey are not, s far as I know,, What is become of them ?---Having closed_ the whole Of this business in question, I did not think, it at all, necessary to preserve any part of the docu ments relating to it. - • • . ' What did you do with them ?-r-I looked upon !them as pipers of no consequence they'must have been, destroyed with other papers, , - -tVhich I May alsO have looked upon as papers of no consequence to be preserved. . Aid: you sure they are not. now in existence . am positively certain ; and that they, never consisted, as tar as I'know, of ,more .thiin letters 'which Mr. Wilson had written torno on the subject during my • abSente., • • When did you destroy them, ?,--T cannot recollect, but certainly more than one or two years ago ; and, I filmy in 1.804, when I was out of office:. On your return from you: absences did Mr. Wil son giYe you a, legolar acni - .Lt!A in writing of his transactions,ire the: Navy P.iy-oilice, durin l ir such ah ..2.nces7.?Nts he wt ;7; not in the htthlt of doing , so. then could you sk:e of • come ili,the know of +7iqriat:tlio; , : , ..; transilaions . had been, or what the eon. Of Mr. 'Nilson had hem i I was in fortned.ofhiS irLinsuCtiow, as I have already said, by ' corrempondence..7ith him ; amid front his vet high chandler and the pedal confidence which r• had in hire, t did not find it rteces:.4iry t n require more from him than verbal explanations' upon any patlicnlar pyint trAns:l6..tion which. P.ad.. taken place in my • a it-A-rice, ,Did Mr. Wilson ,keep any account. books or led ger; in.lollcli those tran , utaiens • .wcre, registered I do.. not bdicve that any entry was made in any le.lger of the transaCtions which you have, Inv:lieu lady allutkd to. (Okki, , stion repeated,) He kept the public ledgers Of tile thrice, iit which all my public transadiens hLYIL regularly entered, Are tit.:),;e ledgers in existettee %----They are, and in the Navy Pay-oftke. WI; the SUM. of 40,6001, alluded to by you as having been paid by Mt. W ilson for services not it:tval, in the year . l796,' the, only stun paid under Cie s.aine circumstances Of which von have any ?----It WLIS, as iltras I recollea. Di!. you never pay any slim or slims yourself by (11;i:! or note, or p4yment of any description, into t ilnds of Lord I\flelVille,, pr atiy persio authorised it, or ~- 1 1 his aecount,' of plablic money issued . uaval :ervlec.; for purposes not tit al .?— . l have mire &y elphitied to the Comm;ssioners of Inquiry . , of, discriminating between ray public and private monies ,artd-I. have already de clared to you, that I did not know the Application. which Lord t f aly have made of - I . clvauees' •vi,hich I may have os-cdsionally Made to hiStdordship. (Question repeatbd.) 1 prestime I have. t At what time., and to what amount ?---My does not enable roe to, atiswiT that-question. Were any entries made by . you,'Pr any memoran;- (hula kept of any deScription, 'oit such .payment I;:ept regular accounts of ail my rry:)ney trans4tions with Lord having closed and settled thf.o whole of them, and a mutual adease h av i ng 1 ;, ;cad bctwten Yom, I have not thought it necessary lc , preserve any documents respelling my transac ;ions his Lordship. A l re _ i!ocuments in existents ?----They - are: not, as i ii.now. - .. Wiwn -c4R-re they . destroyetl?—At the time I was 6'.lt Of oeif.e; i think in 1603. Did 'lon destroy them ?—I did; I burned those I ~ tHaein unnecessry to keep. ..., , 1):1 0:04', books or documents contain your ac ,c,::;ll!'.,',:tir any other-person except Lord Melville? J icy p !,. wheyi w as the relemie befom-rnentiotied exc . • IfiClo., to the best of tray re -c"biletiart Ns if, - rkt 'arm liert*o Rtfitt3ii were made, were they alway! rrMe t 6 Lot& M.l, ville personally ?--Not„ alvrays. „Dirt you ever?—l do not, at this moment, recol left I ever did. • To - idiom did you ever pay, on Lord: Melvine's account; public money for purposes not Naval ?-4 used mostt, frequently to pay them into the bands of, the principal 'money, coiiduL•tor, one of the Officers of the Navy. Pay Office, " What was his name Tweedy; he is now dead. . • • What other person did you Make such payments to ?--I cannot recolle any other persons at this moment.. How long ins Mr. Tweedy been , dead ?—Two or three years since Lord Melville's Treasurership ceased. To what other persons did you make such pay ments ?—I do not recoiled any other person. Wa:, there any Account kept between Mr. Tweedy' and you ?—None. 'What was the nature of the discharge you. received from Mr. Tweedy ?—I took no discharge. • . 'What 'authority did Mr. Tweedy - produce to you for' the payment of such money ?=—The demand for such money had previou4been made by Lord Mel ville to myself. Verbally, or in writing ?—Verbally. Did you keep any account of the sums paid to Mr. Tweedy, in • consequence of such verbal de.. maids made by Lord Meßille ?—I entered them in the accounts which I kept with his Lordship. ' y Are they in existence ?-1 have already men tioned, that I had not thought it necessary to pre serve any accounts between Lord Melville and my self), a mutual release having passed between us. Do you know the amount of any such sums which you may hive paid to Mr. Tweedy ?—My recolleEtion does not serve me to specify any such stung. Do'you recoiled any thing about the date of such payments do not. Do you recollea what sort of stunkthey may have been ?--Once or twice they may have amounted to between 3 Etnd 40001. but not larger. To what other perisons did you make .such pay ments besides ~Mr. Tweedy ?—I do not recollett. • In making such payments to Mr. Tweedy, did you consider him as a public Officer, or a private. Agent of Lord Melville obeyed Lord Melville's diredions in paving the money to him, withoue pre tending to consider whether he was a private .tgent or not. Had you any priblic money transa&ions with Mr. Tweedy officially had. - Where were those public Official transaetiOns re corded ?--In the:Navy Pay Office. , Are the payments to Mr. Tweedy, by Lord-Nla- Ville!s verbal order, recorded there also i—ahey, arc not in any instance. Do you know into whose hands- the 40,0001. paid by Mr. Wilson during your absence in" the year 1796 for purposes not naval, was placed ?--I only know from the infonnatiotrwhich Mr. Wilson 'has given sue upon that subje&. • What was, that information ?—That, he had paid the money to 1.,0rd. Melville. By whom, and at what time, was that money re turned ?.-4 have already stated in general. terms, that. I believe it. to be returned by Mx. Tang . but I can only Speak with my own knowledge in Nape& whir..,s far as I can: to, the last payment, amounted to 60001., and. which was returned to pile, by Mr. Long sonic time in ipuary 1798. ••• • At what period or periods' was tho 34,0001. re,. turned, tmd to whom have no further know ledge of .the circumstance ; as. I 'was much in cot land in the latter end of .1796, and in the year 1797, ~ and the re-payments were oucle, tti the best of my lotowledge, during my. *settee; bUt I am very ' tttain that 'the (30001. which I received in January 1798 completed the full re-payment `of the 40,0001. NV'ere any entries madein .the orfice,books of such re-payments ?--None that I know :of. 'How then.,did you come to' the conviCtionfof the txtyntelit :of (ioool. in January 1798 making the ba lance of the 40,0001. paid out as before statcd.in the year. t-79()%—Froiii a knowledge. which I have at all times had of the state' of my balances, by which I . .must, Have seen when any deficiency that may have existed was paid up. Hew came you then not to see the dates of the re-. pay mentt of such 34,0001. make no doubt that I may have.sC-tt the dates, but I have no recollec tion.,of them whatever. Where were they recorded my own private books, ti Where are those books ?,--,,They are the books befige-mentioned, which I did,not think necessary to preserve. Were the sums paid, to .IWr.' Tweedy by Lord Melvilles verbal order ever returned to you, or in imy way repaid to the account.of the Public in the, Navy Pay Office, or to any other fund ?---They have unquestionably been all repaid to me, and I', hue accounted for the whole of the money that. has . been put under my charge for nayal services. Did Lord Melville pay interest. to yett:,.for such Bunts during the time tfigy -Were in hiS posession?, LOrd Melville has paid me interest for sums of Money, but not Upon those which I have stated to have - been paid to Mr. Tweedy. Who are Mr. ThreCdY's executers ?---He left two sons, ,but whether they are' his executors or not do not knoW. , • . . Was any interest paid,on the 00001, advanced daring your absence by Mr. Wilson ?-...-N ont i that. I know of. Were the sums advanced to Mr. Tweedy ad vanced out of the mixed fund at Messrs. Coutts', or were they: advAnced out of a fund which consisted exclusively of 'public money do n o t ret oi e et any other advances than those made out of the mixed fund at Messrs. Coutts'. What reason had, you for considering 'that the 40,0001. was advanced out of the, public money It . Was'froni a .general .impressitin:which'l received froM time; communications Made, to Me upon this subjeca, I do not knoW whether this . 40,0001. was advaticcd from , Messrs. couttie or "it; . . ; W hat may have' been the total amo un t of money (ltwcribed - to be advanced at different times to Mr. l'weetlyly order' of Lord Melville, as nearly as ,yoti can ft:colic:a ?---The ,imoutit of this de:ieription, to the beat, of my reeolle6tion, have :newer, in the :whole, exceeded 30,0001, u nt il s;,,as atlcled.to it; but I cannot of 40,0001, the whole .of: the stuns can- I s ti t l a c t: u u t ' ll ith certainty thal stituting that Tweedy. To it hom warany part of the 30,0001. advanced, which Was not paid to Mr. Tweedy ?-4.hav,e al ready stated, that Ido not recollect. . • Within whaeperiod_of time,did , these issues„ take place? r --I mean to comprehend, the. whole time during which I acted as Paymaster under Lord Mal ville, for 14 or 15 years. Why did you destroy papersin which other per sons' accounts were kept, as well as Lord Melville's —Because the whole of my accounts were closed ,upon my leaving LondOn, excepting some private family concerns, and very' small accounts between my friends pid myself, which I carried forward into new books. I desire to 4tate to my former answer, that 10,0001. of the 30,0001. had accrued betbre I was appointed to my office.. • By whom was the 10,0001. advanced ?—I do not know. How do you know the existence of such a debt,? —By Lord Melvilles_ acknowledgment to me. .To whom did he aCknowledge himself debtor To the office. Of how - long standing had that debt been?--1 have no knOwledge of the circumstance, To whom was that 10,0001. repaidl—lt must have been repaid to me. . 1 - In what capacity did you receive ;that :sum that you had never advanced . capacity. of Pay master. - • Did you then 'conceive it to be a debt clue to the Public ?—I did. , , 30,0001. was advanced to. Mr Was any interest paid upon it ?---None. Had not Lord Welvitle Inade ,Such` acknoWledg-, ment, could you- have :traced such debt due from him to the Public, in any of the office-books.?-4 could certainly have told that The balance of the ac count put under my charge was so much deficient. Was , Lord • Melville debited for such sum ,in any of ,the books ?---HG was not. What was the nature of the acknowledgment. of Lord Melville ?—Merely verbal. Did you conceive Mr. Tweedy aaing as a private agent, for Lord Melville, or ever aaing for him in that capacPity?-1 considered him, in 'these instances, to have been acting for his Lordship in a private lea paelty. Explain private?---Merely as a person sent to me by his Lordship to receive the money which I had previously been direEted to pay hir. Wt!.re those diredions from Lord Melv:rite.4o pro cure money generally, or to procure hiui public mo ney procure money generally. Did you, consider Mr. Tweedy inerely as a Ines sengor to carry the money to Lord Melville, at' con cerned in the application of the money ?---31[erely as a messenger. The fitrthez' Examination,(',f 2.(Lrandor Trotter, Esq. taken on the -1 ilby, 1.805. Of ,the sums you have advanced from time to time to Lord Melville, nut exceeding the 20,0001. as Men tioned yeNterday, do you know, whether 'atiy part of it was applied to any public purpose.?---T do not, but I beg to be understood, that this sum whicli I mentioned yesterday, is not cot ieEtcd.with the eums which .1. have mentioned before the CL.)inmissioOrs of Naval Inquiry to have been OCCfisiunolly in al: vanee to Lord Melville and 'for which I accouhted .hiS Lordship my private debtor. In the Tentlyßeport it 14 mentioned, that a cer tain sum was left in Mr. Trotter's hands., as thy: balance of the first part of the second Treasurership, where is that sum now, amounting to 54.80, 1 3s. ad, ?--The greater part of it is still, in my posses sion, but a small part has been paid away at one yay rnent. ' , - What was the amount of the small payment. issued two hundred pounds to the Cashier to make pAynaent of ' a larger demand; assisted by - money in the Citshier's hands.. • When was that payment made ?--It was made in December 1 804; and I have taken'measures within these two days to pay up the.' balance. What are the measures you have taken`?---I have inquired into the amount of balances rem:iini:lg un assigned in that Treasurership, with a view to pro cure assignments being made so as to reduce the ba lance. To whom do you propose to pay the ' . balance when it is so reduced ?--The account. being nearly closed , I ekpeet dire&ions froM the Auditor's Oi'- 'fice to pay the balance into the-E?(Chequer. - What obstacles have there been in the way.to an earlier settlement of this account ?--:•Froin the pecul liarly intricate manner in which the account of the Ex-treasurers are required to be closed, but which intricacy arises .from the minute accuracy which is observed. There is a certain, sum mentioned in. the 135th page Of 'the Tenth Report of the Cianniii sioners t:tf Naval Inquiry, of the, suth of 5,5631. 6s. q.d. which was put into LordPMelville's own hands in May or June, 1800, which was the ba lance of Lord first treasurership, ending in 1783; do ,you know where that'surn now is?.--- I do. not, : ally further than't, have heard Lord Mel ville, within these three weeks or a - montli,Sdy, that he meant to pay it immediatelY into the Exche- quer. From the state of the accounts of Lord Mel ville's first treasurership, could, that balance have been earlier paid into the Exchequer apprehend not until within these three or tour months, until which tune that• account , of his Lordship had not been delivered to she Auditors, Upon what does that depend, the delivery to . the Auditors ?.--The final arrangement of the account, in the minute manner in whcch, I have eudeavourt-d to describe, in which the whole payments made in the VreaSurership are brought to agree in the account of the sums as certified to the several Bo:irds, with the account made up in a different form, and delivered to the Auditors. , Whether any of the payments which you had made to Mt. Tweedy, by Lord Melville's dire6tion, had any relation to tho - se circumstances which herd Melville had confidentially communicated to yult, and; which you did not deem yourself at liberty to relate, as mentioned in page ( 203 in the Tenth Re port ?--:.Jihad no such allusion: s [The Witness desires to amend his evidonce of yesterday, as 6 sums advanCed to other pert.orii be isiiirlat?iiinr;il)\aAirielteet bs'ocoekP;arth,l3'3d May. In I:c4)ct-- ionally mide payments into the houses of Me.zrs. Ll inniond and Me,nrA_ routtL_ :met to txiv Lord • . I\oflehivisilt'srciSselicirie.:,tsarfaiy,iti.„\i•lyt.-..321„1ve.z, and otherVleOle' Do you- meal to say that all these paymerits, g* to the payments mode to :Nlr. Tweedy, do riot I , ' Geed in the whole, and duririg the d o fiats ct your acting as Paymaster to Lord Melville , the, of 2(1,000}. ?---Ifpon a • further con3icleration of 11 , 1e i sums which I, stated yesterday, 1 ihnuld \dill 0 to,that "Stun` two or three thouiand pound& , • ~ .. ~. , _ . . M AILS. 'i. t'.l, I ) bufb ' AR RIV RD —.i Lisbon. Dv 2.,--1 I.lAmburgli, I G'-'t,. ..-:i--:—_:.-------------**---"'-'- ' - - „ El soLild slits lit ciltE TAt.StIg;DEO? 1. () ...Nr 1) 0 Ar, Ws stated several daYs . ago , that eve 101 ti bi 4 strongest reason bd'..TC that Lord 1Ct1 ,04 11; PasAgd the, Streight L-ago Bay Wiliting for, intbrmation, in oilier to sue the Cornbined Squadrons. , Our opinion 1 5 C°' t 5 Of Gibraltar., and that ho.ll,lsill' fir'le by DiSpatehes reeeived .this etatii4, 4 , the . id n _ 4-- '- -liraltY frorn his • Lordship, Are l ''''': l . b r stand-i destination 1-'155e4 - the ...)Strei,,glitsi -,:, hit; tortAsltip reirieel '‘, a short .time in Lag -. os Bay, frol4l Vili Ch l '' Sailed .on, the 19111, nit. having, :Is \ tie 0 6 . 1 ‘ .I ;ar t!)ts received : I)w itiv - v information reipeeo, 1 mate, destinatien;of the Eneniy i ,drons: We are ... unable, lAvever, to c°l/1111 :' t i, nicate any po.sitive intbrination respeitingthel',l: of - the Freneh And Spaaish Sqlli'' Letter from Li A bon; that ',l Vessel kid aniveti t rit. on the lid' ult, from the lit' the .C3Pt3c.u!,ll, '•lc'llC74 stated, that he had passed thrOtigit th e , ille bincd Squadron on Ow Q 1 st 'of April, lici'to. Cape -4, i , ~.\rrei.d. isiaods. From this soteraerlit de, evCr,. no pesitive inference 011 be drt' s , titer their objed be the East- Indies or the . 0 ,because ill either ease the Gape he acre ($. but it i, st:ited11111: would not be out of their way. ' ,lod 11e E l peditio'n 'under the cot - n 7. al:Pi v• 4 , 1 , 01 it CRAIG sailed. on the ,Intlt alt. ti via liisb4' ~. 'a. supposed they were bo.und for 6 ibol tgr : o stil' Tit° movements of the Boulogne ElP ti 0 0. indicate. an intention .to put to sea! Vi a ',lcie; derable degree - - considerable bodies of Troops love I°ll *op marching down•to the Coast, appatOtlY i' r re o t 'pose a embarking l'ile,,e deton.strallons 3 , , 0 ' ' . 111) PKObably ) t p c irio' attenticli ; for we ctilinot believe I,oe ,. 'se for we ithond,r.for, the purpoi,: of di'in .vor tore t0..50 in the -face of. our IlloA3('In5 drop. ,. , r 11 014 The Te%el.Fleet still remains :it :incL)() ,cli.ire,i; sea,. but its force 11,;,, beeii very nal ;.1.1 COgi, it 0 0 i f Oln the best. atallority, ill t . c.onsisti of five Sail .of.the Line. i 11'1°' General M4Rmois•T bag arrivet, at t hy ' MONDAY, JtINV 3, 1805, aolped.f:arv(_r.l:_tg:tieilliiN•oeit.r„red.Gnerieeasnitbcry and ote 00 , i of 0 bhteix:iNas.ou:reoelevnixeser than t : a onr tlieerp'eltru' sf)ielco3s;°tlnic°l;cll°'ll ,:1 olich IV l ' Citte'prnonrl: of ,the th v e , I:fottie of . (:c . n tin,lo,o3.ol:l'll.ictil:fl'i 1 di g , th it it te , 'e. 0 3 it. . AA/al Cottunt,siontrs, , 0 01 i on Saturday, We do'u:ve Id to east slightest refleCtion on the Cll"'lt:hq ectlttectoint-beotnrutshtereepootiettrdoriyi: t ` h .c efi t t‘liiiinti,:r::, ... bserv2 t• • illipartillit in, our op. inion, t lot bell""" .34 l' y and ability--littt sgeci"' copier in ' the neport ~,oi have )11111 rat:dll runtliciog I,o,,,s,rt:llitecy "t,--ii:(11):)11:00:11:1:011:11.,::(:415 .'e so indttstriously circulated, for the 1 : OW Prejudicing the niintli of tlle People agait's ,i.e* a. 4 well . , ,- ' . ‘Bre, 0 83 against Lord Mr.i.vo•Lf- o f tY waYs persuaded that the inoie the Couda' %,61 i t, be C r° ( lw n t ii h p is rina i t t i r i jaelcltreit'ioN__ll::f:inoer:':t!l:eed iPtiii;ritcb°sl;-tvieeitliri)': tt:r‘lr'elciiir:°,3 6illtli:):11'1;:;":1:11).i;t:Cri: 1 The Report , , . ELVIS' itislto o w t. of the Coffin-int0,.,,.,t , 1 cr:rcpitYni, sttlliieicelibsetrka)lriwty, 011 an:dtiti,llito,j t ~:rilslteicacooti:i.)!,ll,s.:,•,:: , will manifeSt themselves, a.; they li3ve tit'' , ~,,,5: ii o „e,.. their ~,, his ininkence, but th iiiJitvotioa at `, 0) •,, full ti!xused, they their not iffily :v. v ti ,,,, ~, have dared to insinuate untbunded "114//"..a„.# i'' d,: • - tor th e P wr icelve and cajole the i\ ill' ir, Pulling. down a great and powerl'el Ilthreil:e- )1,100, tb;;aNtNit:itelt: Lrcoeorsi,peit;q:auteittnot,coLsoortidtt::ll lettoibillir.dsvese°frictesl3citsilins,,,iO4°l:llllltP,:,,:iivf,lo`, 11, ~ tat c' 0 i WfirrintEAD's totion), w3- L.. ; to '''' ,0 ' before the Committee. fie °PP,— . 1)14'11 ', stand in 4 strange Ipredicamcnt tor I re Iv o' Da li lt) staild-and we see every il,ty illoN 'i 4 0 , ~ ~ f Mr• 111 or to regret that the Nlotiori 0 the , r ; .. ) L1 talt L't ado not in the first itisnwee, . 1 , 00,1 P, L i , question was not referred to 3 t ''' fie 0 4 ' , ti,L, I. , ' . ' i ' fore any puoishitieut NO iota,- I.' , „tcc:i''''," i sto" r o,`' Lard AiELVILLB appeari to o' '°, 1 ,,, t , coy' ,J.., it did wiKtrt it was referred tuthe''" J o ;.q. '• it dae; vt recut t 6 be Odic; gisr4'. _ ....--. ~:,~•"~ ;..."~