The Sun. — London, England, 1852-02-18 00:00:00

Vital lattion+ SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPZA.EaR took the Chair at Twelve o'clock. CITY ELECTIONS. The Sheriffs of London and Dtriddlesex appeared at the bar, and delivered in a petition fro m the Corporation of the City, praying for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the elections of the City. PRIVATE BILLS. The following Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed Bury (Sussex) Road. East London Witterworks. Ilkley Waterworks. Kelvin Bridge (Glasgow) and other Works. New River and East London Waterworks. New River Company (New Works, &c.) Sheffield Bridges an Streets. Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway. South-Eastern and Reading, Guildford and Reigate Railways. South Yorkshire Railway and River Dun Company (Sale or Lease, &c.) Wakefield and Denby Dale Road. Yaxley Drainage. PETITIONS. Sir JOSHUA WALMSLEY - Presented a petition from Bolton in favour of the County Rates Bill; also a petition praying for the repeal of the taxes on know ledge. Colonel CHATTERTON presented a petition from Cork, praying for an amendment of the Irish Poor-law. Mr. hAsTIE presented a petition from Glasgow against the Scotch Public-house Bill. Mr. W. J. FOX presented a large number of petitions from places in the West Riding and Lancashire in favour of secular education. Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition of immense pro portions from 61,500 of the male adult population of Manchester, praying for a general system of secular education, to be paid for by local rates and managed by local boards especially elected by the rate-payers. Mr. HUME presented petitions from Montrose and other olives .esinst the Scotch Public-house Bill. Col. LLOYD WATKINS presented a petition from the ocen.ed postmasters and funeral coach proprietors in the borough of Brecknook, for the repeal of the post-horse duties and assessed tax on carriages, kept to let or hire. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. LOCKE KING gave notice that, on the secon' reading of tt,e new Reform Bid, he should muva as an amendment that no reform in the representation of the people in the House of Commons e-ould be satisfactory to the couritu which did not include a more equal pro portion of Members to the population than existed at present. MR, BENNETT. Mr. HORSMAN have notice that, on an early he should call the attention of the House to the esappoint ment of the Rev. Mr. Bennett to he living Gil rome. SAVINGS' BANKS. Mr. BROTHERTON moved for a return from each caving,' te.-„nk in England and Walee, Scotland and Ire land, containing, in columns, the names of the offic-rs, their respt4c%ive salaries and other allowances, if an'; the amount of security each gives; the number of acs counts remaining open; the total amount owing to de positors; the total amount invested with the Commis sioners for the Redaction of the National Debt; the rate of intorest paid to depositt rs; and the total amount of the separate surplus fund the 20th day of November, 1850 and 1851; the rate per centum per annum on ne capital of the bank; of the , spenses cif management; the annual number of receipts ;rom evp,;sitors; the annual number of payments; the average amount of receipts; the average amount of payments; the number and amount of annuities granted; also the annual expen-es of management, inclusive of all salaries—for the years ended the 20th day of November, 1850 and 1851. — Agreed to. COUNTY RATES BILL. Mr. FRESHFIELO, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said it had been introduced for the purpose of consolidating all Acts relating to county rates, and amending all their incongruities. Under the Bill not a shilling more would be raised than was done at present, 'amr would any person be subject to any liability which was not already imposed upon him. But it was abso lutely necessary that the incongruities should be re moved, and the law rendered consistent in itself and made more practicable. The subject had been investi gated by several committees appointed by various ceunties, and the result of the investigation was a Bill which fixed the rateable value of all counties, which he now proposed to repeal. That Act was at first defective, in so far as it did not specify to whom th 3 notice of ap peal was to be given in the event of an appeal being made, and another Act was passed to remedy this defect, but it did it so elumsily that this Act was found to be inoperative, and he therefore now proposed to amend the provisions of that Act. Some of the existing Acts confounded the leve ing with the assessment of a rate—the two proceedings, in fact, being treated as synonymous; and this Bill would remedy that defect. It would give the sessions of the county power to establish the basis of a rate, and authority to assess the rate, each parish having a month given to them for appeal against any excessive assessment. The assess ment would be made annually, and *standing county rate committee would be crested in -each county, the members to be elected annually, and their duties to con sist of investigating the appeals. The power, however, of dismissing or allowing the appeal would reot with the Court of Quarter Sessions, and the standing committee would have to prepare reports for the guidance of the sessions. The mode of assessment which this Bill contemplated was that which was now in force for levying the poor -rate, and apologising to the House for detaining them so long, he had now only to move the second reading of the Bill. Mr. BOTJVERIE would not oppose the second read ing of the Bill, but at the same time he entertained con siderable objection to the Bill. In the first place, the Bill was intended to consolidate the statutes relating to the county rate, but it omitted some of the existing statutes, and therefore it was defective in that respect- There were oteer defects of detail in the Bill besides its being objectionable in so far as it related to the mode of assessment, and the mode of estimating each valuation for levying the rate. Mr. B. HOPE thanked the Hon. Member for Boson for having introduced this Bill. He could not under stand why the Government should object to the basis of the valuation proposed to be established by the Bill, since that basis was precisely the same as that upon which the income and property-tax had been founded. The Bill, however, was detective in one re spect, it made no provision for a net valuation, but, per haps, the defect could be remedied in Committee. Mr. HUME was glad this question had been raised, not that he anticipated that this Bill would be passed into a law, but it might settle the disputes that now ex isted as to the best mode of valuation. At present there was a variety of valuations is force is different parishes, and it was impossible, to have a fair representation of the people in that House, unless a Bill "as passed to establish a general and uniform rate all Over the country. He thought Government ought to bring in a Bill fur the purpose. Mr- C. LEWIS said the law at present was as strong as it could be mace; that the valuations for the poor and county necessity yrsabtes should b e equa l an d un if orm , an d th e re wee u ' i ty to press such a Bill as that suggested by the Hon. Member for Montrose. It was true that the poor law valuation was occasionally unequal, but neverthe less he must obj ect i n into to placing the county-rate upon a different basis to the or-rate or it would in volve the expense o f t poor-rate , wo assessments. Mr. HENLEY said such formidable difficultie s had ar isen to the farther p rogress of the Bill, that the Hon. Member must be a very courageous man if he ventured to encounter the labour and attention which would be required of him if he went into Committee. It was a very objectio nable measure i n principle, and he regretted that the Government had not recommended its with drawal,as to proceed with it was o 1 only to waste the time of the House. Mr. FRESHFI ELD said he felt no a larm or nervous affections in conseq uence of the H on. Member's caution. The Bill was one of the moat simple i n operation, and he anticipated no difficulty or serious obstruction to its Passing through the House. The Bill was then read a second time. PUBLIC-HOUSES (SCOTLAND) BILL. Mr. F. MACKENZIE proposed the second reading of this Bill. Mr. HUME said he was very sorry that the H on . Member had not withdrawn the Bill, because it was not called for by an y petitions which had been presented to the House. He objected to the measure on the principle that the limitat ion of public houses would not have th e d es i re d result of putting a stop to those drinking habits which he was sorry to say had become very co mmon in Scotland of late years. He was as anxious as any one to re medy the evil, but that could not be done by limiting the number of public-houses. A meeting of Seotch Members was held yesterday, Bill. Twenty-eight Members attended,taondconnostidoenre the them entirely approved of its principle, the ROIL Mem ber (Mr. F. Mackenzie) himself only giving his assent to one of the clauses. They, h owever a ll agreed that a committee should be appointed to inquire into the subject in a full and impartial man ner, and with the vies. , of devising some more effectual means of abating the crying evil. He was bound to say, however, that a division took place , and that 12 voted in favour of proceeding with the second reading, and 16 for its rejectio se bat the whole of the 12 had individually objection s ti most of the clauses. Steps hail already been taker, in Edinburgh to diro!nisi2 the nurn-er of public-houses, and whilst in 1830 there were 872, the number had been reduced to 516 in 1851; but there had been no commensurate benefit, for the vice had increased instead of being diminished. The inference he drew from the fact was that the same liberal policy which had been so successfully adopted in London, where drunken ness had greatly decreased, should be pursuit' in Scot land. It was seldom one saw such large numbers of drunken persons in the thoroughfares of the metro polis as filled the streets of Edinburgh and Glasgow. ae rf. :ll‘ ,;r In _ London the d m onopol e in the sale of beer plsc Y es of amusement bad been LefnndaAars_c_selr,t.::, aladuibeede where h r e em re ov t e h , !aanbdouring classes could spend their ~,,q . .... t im e ; an d _so great a change had taken .-' 2 'se ~;, ~ , . ..i , : lace in the morals of the people, that whilst s e e, e , with drunkenness _ '' ke° e 4060 persons were charged .---, "%:: • 1831, only 23,600 A ,!,, }„ I „, , , :11r oe i . • ,;: . --•-:-.5- magistrates on a charge during 1 h the n uisti • ~ / . 4. . liFtast year, thoug pP - on had increased from eT 500,000 to 2,ooo,ooo.—(Hear , h - ear.) The working Bicallae'v' b t f;re th • ' - e asses, instead of resorting to public ' 4Z:gl -houses, now eta - - t THE S UN, ployed their leisure time in visiting the British Museum tied the Nationel Gallery, and in taking a jaunt to Hamp ton Court. He should move that the Bill be read a second time this day six months, but would suggest that a Committee should be appointed to inquire into the best means of improving the morals of the people both in Scotland and England.—(Hear.) The amendment having been put, Lord DRUMLANRIG said, though not agreeing with the whole of the Bill, he thought it would be better to go into Committee, when an opportunity would be given for discussing the whole of its details. He bore testimony to the demoralising tendency which the great consumption of spirits had upon the people of Scotland, and to the urgent necessity which existed for some legis lative enactment upon the subject. Mr. A. HASTIE supported the amendment, but de nied that the drinking habits of thhee c Sco ontend tch p ed that consumption of spirits had largely diminished. He approved of the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Montrose, that a Committee should be appointed, and he would give it his cordial support. Mr. F. M AIME considered that the propositions made on each side of the House did not differ very ma terially. There were many points on which he differed from the Hon. Member for Montrose, but he was sure that the objects of all parties would be attained by send ing the Bill to a Committee upstairs. It was, he con fessed, with great pain he had arrived at the conclusion that the sad vice of drunkenness was very prevalent in Scotland. He was not one to say anything derogatory of his country; but he could not conceal from himself the lamentable fact that in a popualation of three millions there was a consumption of raw spirits to the amount of about six millions of gallons.— (Hear, hear.) Taking the whole of the population, from the man who was tottering on the verge of the grave down to the infant who an hour ago first saw the light, that gave an average consumption of spirits for each individual of two gallons per annum.—(Hear, hear.). In Glasgow there was a public-house for every 164 of the population, including in that number both young and old. This was as monstrous a state of things as could exist in any city or any country. The Hon. Member for Montrose said if beer licenses were more generally given in Scotland the evil of drunken ness would be considerably diminished; but he doubted whether that was a correct assumption. What he (Mr. F. Maule) objected to was the system existing in Scot land of allowing bakers' and grocers' shops to have licences for the sale of ardent spirits. That system ' had a double effect. First, it injured the fair trader, because, whilst an honest baker for instance sold good bread at the market price, there was another baker in the same neighbourhood who offered his bread at a price which was not profitable, and then made up the deficiency by selling drams to his customers. — (Hear, hear.) That it was which demoralised his countrymen and countrywomen, and which ho wished to see abolished.—(Hear.) It was at these shops that the servant girl first learnt the taste of whisky, and the youths of the country were demoralised; and he would rather see in Edinburgh and Glasgow London gin palaces established at the corner of streets, than that servant girls and youths should obtain whisky in a surreptitious way.—(Hear, hear.) If they went into such public places they would die so openly, and if no shame existed a brand of infamy would itt many cases be stemp , d upon them, but now they ob tained whisky in grocers' shops in a secret and surrep titious manner—the habit of drinking grew up from time to time, vice followed, vice and at last they became irretrievably ruined. The increase of beer shops would never make the cen sumption of beer supersede that of spirits in Scotland. The object of a Committee ought to be to bring the con sumption of spirits under more control, and if that could not be done then to make it more public, so that public opinion could more effectually bear upon the matter. The Honourable Member for Montrose had also adverted to the advantages of having public institutions for the resort and amusement of the people; and if he would be less niggardly with regard to the public purse, he would be most happy to adopt his suggestions with regard to Scotland, but it was clear they cou d not be carried out except at the ex pense of the country. Ho hoped the House would as sent to the second reading and then refer the subject to a Committee, to be appointed for the purpose. Mr. OSWALD admitted the consumption of spirits in Scotland was great, and ought to be diminished, but considering that no legislative measure would diminish the consumption, he should support the amendment. The Bill was a piece of the purest humbug he bad ever seen introduced into the House. He regretted very much the course which the Government had taken, because he thought it was of the greatest importance that a Bill of such a nature should be brought in by the Government and not by an independent Member. If they wanted an inquiry on the subject, let them have a Committee, but he would not have them read this Bill a second time, which he believed would be most mischie vous to the country. Mr. MACGREGOR was sorry to have seen any mem ber of the Government supporting a Bill of this nature. However they might alter it, he was convinced that this Bill would not be of the slightest use. Legislation would not effect anything. The only way to improve the so briety of the people of Scotland was by education, be ginning at the earliest age. To limit the number of public-houses would be to offer a premium for the pur chase of larger quantities of spirits. The Bill was ob noxious to the wiaole people of Scotland, and he should feel it his du , y to oppose it in every stage. Mr. CU NINIING BRUCE said it was a pretty well established fact that drunkenness had been a great cause in counteracting the benefits of education which were so widely spread in Scotland. According to the latest re turns the proportion of educated to uneducated criminals in Scotland was as 4 to 1. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Glasgow said that the number of licences had diminished, but the consumption of ardent spirits in that city was thirty-six bottles per head of the whole population, man, woman, and child, and spirits had been called the mother-milk of Glasgow. Sheriff Alison's testimony was to the effect that two-thirds of the cdmes in that city was caused by the use of ardent spirits. Were they, then, to be told that Scotch gentlemen must sit down content with this evil with out attempting to ameliorate it? If the argument of the Hon. Member for Glasgow, that legislation never did any good in these matters was coreect, what was to become of all the Bills that had been brought into that House by the Eartof Shaftesbury to improve the condi tion of the working classes? He thought the best course to pursue would be to read this Bill a second time, and send it upstairs to a Committee with : power to take evidence on the subje c t. Mr. CO WAN said that he represented a constituency, among which he was ashamed to conf e ss that there existed great misery and pauperis m , and he would gladly support any measure which he thought would tend to alleviate it. He did not think that the Bill would have that effect. It did not touch the great evil —the wretched state of the dwellings of the poor, which drove the people to despair, and led them to seek relief and consolation in ardent spirits. Sir J, HOPE approved of the general principle of the and would support the second reading of it. The LORD ADVOCATE said he intended to sup port the second reading of the Bill. Whatever might be maid there oould not be the slightest doubt that intemper ance was the crying and scandalous evil in Scotland.— (Hear.) He did not wonder at all at the returns which had been quoted from the evidence of Sheriff Alison, and no man who was at all connected with the criminal affairs of that country could tail to see that, if they could diminish the amount of intemperance, they would also be diminishing the amount of crime. —(Hear, hear.) It was to obtain some measure which would have a tendency this way that he meant to vote for the second reading of this Bill, but as re garded the Bill itselt, he could say at once that he could not support it.—(Hear, hear.) The subject with which it dealt was very important, and if the Bill were sent to a Committee some additional light might be thrown upon the subject and a better Bill devised. By this means they would be more likely to obviate delay than if they appointed a general Committee. If they were to have a measure on the subject it would be better to have it at once without delay. This Bill dealt only with the licensing system, and though he did not expect any very great result from that, still he thought, for the reasons he had given, that it would be better to give this Bill a second reading. Mr. ELLIOTT opposed the Bill, being adverse to its principle as well as to the details by which it was pro posed to carry out that principle. Mr. F. MACKENZIE, in reply, said his wish was that the Bill should he read a second time, in order that it might be referred to a Select Committee, lad he thought it better to take that course than to refer the whole subject to a general Committee, the result of which would only be fruitless resolutions, and the post ponement of Lord MELGUND said that the course which the Hon. Member_. proposed was certainly a most extraordinary one; it was asking the House first to a ffi rm the principle of aBA and pr i nciple W then to inquire afterwards whether that of legislation a good one. He believed that this system which did sot as be vicious, and would produce evils r tee yet exist. Mr. BOUV House to the f act , swished to call the attention of the had spoken in , or t t hat of all the Hon. Members who supp had advanced a single of the Bill there was not one who The House then dedarg ument divi in its favour. For the second r e The there appeared— Against it ... .. p g •-• ... 123 Majority... 67. The Bill was then read 'a second time: . —56 ENFRANCHISEMENT OF COPYROLDS BILL. On the motion for the second reading g of this Bill Mr. HODGS ON suggested that th esecond until this day wee reading might be postpo n ed The Bill was only printed an d delivered yesterday. Mr. AGLIONBY declined to accede to the but was on e request. The Bill was not a n ew one, which was d from last session, and which po.t pone was founded Committee who had sat up upen the report of aon the subject. Mr. CHRISTOPHER had looked into the provisions of the Bill, but not being a professional man he con fessed he could not entirely understand it. He there-. fore thought the appeal for a postponement was quite justifiable. Mr. AGLIONBY said the principle of the Bill was in accordance with the Real Property Commission that sat in 1832. In addition to that a Committee was subsequently appointed to consider the subject of ccpy bold enf a. ehisement, before whom the late Sir Robert Peel gel) must important evidence, and a Bill was af terwards passed authorising voluntary enfranchisement. Lest year and the year previous the matter was again ii.k.zo up, and ultimately re•erred to a second Comm:ate, w h r , eem e to C'e neer:more, reen!ution to recemenencl Bid to the leleu , e. Ii was aceu:diegley table late last session, and had since been considered by the country, and it was generally allowed that the provisions of the Bill were as favourable to the lord as to LONDON, the tenant. It was intended that its provisions should I be carried out under the superintendence of a commis sion; and he had little doubt that it would be found to work well. Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND did not think the Bill dealt out equal justice to both sides. It was a com pulsory Bill of a one-sided character, and he was very much afraid it would do incalculable injury. He readily admitted that the old antiquated copy hold tenare was unsound in principle, but did the Bill do away with copyholds? Certainly not, it left behind a remnant of the old system, and, therefore, until they could legislate in such a way as to secure the interests of both the landlord and the tenant, they ought not to advance a step in the matter. The com pensation claims of this Bill were highly objectionable, and he still gave it his humble opposition. Mr. HUME said the object of the Bill was to abolish copyholds altogether, and he fully approved of it. With regard to the compensation clauses they could be got rid of as amended in Committee. Mr. FRESHFIELD had heard nothing which should induce him to oppose the Bill. It was for the public interest that the pernicious system of copyhold tenure should be abolished, and the Bill should have his hearty support. Mr. MULLINGS supported the Bill, and hoped it would not be rejected because it contained some defect in its detail. The Bill was then ordered to be read a second time this day firtnight. COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDITURE BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this Bill, Sir J. PAKINGTON said this was another Bill which had been carried over from last session, but since then his opinion had undergone no change whatever upon the subject of the Bill, and he must continue to give it his decided opposition. It was proposed by the Bill to transfer the management of the county rates to a theatre that was entirely unfit for the task. He had no desire to undervalue the importance of taxation being accompanied by represen tation, but the management of county-rates was an ex- ' ception to the rule, and that argument would not apply in this instance. The Bill was not the one recommended by the Committee last session, or he might have felt himself precluded from offering any opposition to it. The House should remember that the Committee last session was composed of some of the most distinguished Members of the House, including the Right Hon. the Se cretary of State fer the Home Department and the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon; and after long and careful investigation, the Committee came to the resolu. tion of recommending a particular Bill, which the Right Hon. Member for Manchester had taken upon himself to set aside for the sake of introducing this measure; and he hoped therefore the House would not sanction the second reading. Neither the House nor the Government could be prepared to take the management of the polico and county gaols out of the hands of the magistracy of England, and as this question was one of too much meg nitude and importance to be left in the bands of a private Member, he called upon the House to join him in pre ventiug its adoption until it had been fully sanctioned and brought in by some responsible Minister.—(Hear.) Mr. ROBERT PALMER contended that the princi- pie of this Bill was vastly different to the one which he was prepared to support last year as well as now. Ile did not object to the provision which gave the rate payers a voice in the management of county affairs, but they ought to enjoy it with the magistracy, and he was not prepared to support such an unjust species of legislation. In his part of the country the ratepayers took very little interest in this question; he had made them fully acquainted with its principle and details, but they had forwarded no petition or communication upon the subject, and he presumed from that circumstance that they cared very little about the matter. Oa the other band, he believed they were guile satisfied with the pre sent system, and the House should pause before they at tempted to disturb it. Until he saw a stronger expres sion of opinion in the country in favour of the Bill, he should always be prepared to oppose it.—(Hear.) Mr. M. GrIBON considered the Hon. Member had no right to assume that because the unions adverted to were silent they were therefore opposed to the Bill. The mode adopted fur constituting the boards was very just and proper, viz., to give the ratepayers the power of selecting persons, whether magistrates or not, whom they thought were best quali fied to be members of financial boards for the aes,ss- ment and expenditure of the county rates. In making the alterations in the Bill he had acted in accordance with the principles which the Committee of the House had laid down—(Hear, hear)—that the boards should be strictly financial, tied not interfere is the slightest degree with the judicial duties of the magistracy. The Bill contained a great deal that had beeu recommended by the Committee. He admitted it was very desirable that the Government should take up the matter.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Mem ber for Montrose was the first volunteer who brought the question before the House, and unless there were volunteers in legislation they would never progress at all, because the Government could not introduce any measures that were necessary. And no one showed a greater example in volunteer legislation than the Hon. Member for Droitwich.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Mil ner Gibson) considered that when the House delibe rately sanctioned a principle, as it had done the prin ciple of this Bill, it was the duty of the Executive Government to carry out that principle in practical legislation. He would, therefore, most gladly abandon the measure if the Government would premise to take it in hand. The Earl of Derby had stated that the great and rapid increase of county rates well deserved atten tion, and that in the county with which he was con nected they had risen from 77,0001. in 1823 to 175,0001. in 1848, and that it was an:suonialy that such a sum should be assessed and expended by the magistrates without the control of the ratepayers.—(Hear.) The prayer of a pe tition presented to the House by the farmers of Buck inghamshire also made a similar statement, and asked for some remedy. He had no wish to rouse up any bad feeling in the country, but only to obtain the appointment of boards composed of fit, proper, and business men to control the county rates. He hoped the House would not throw out the Bill on the second reading, and allow the magistrates to con tinue to exercise an irresponsible control over the money of the ratepayers, but would, by agreeing to the mea sure, show it. considered some legislation was necessary to allow the ratepayers that control which undoubtedly and they were entitled to possess. GREY said there were very important s constitutionally o G n s E t i o t u h t i G o n E a 1y differences between this Bill and the one formerly in troduced.—(Hear, hear.) He stated on a former occa sion that he thought there was no groat evil to re medy, nor any great abuse existing in the management of county rates; and he was borne out to a great extent in those assertions by the gradual diminution of the rates; but, at the same time, he said he was unable to deny the admission of the representative system into the boards which were to be entrusted with the county expenditure. He added, he was nevertheless aware of the complicated nature of the subject, and thought it was not thoroughly understood by those who had prepared the Bill; and on that occasion he only assented to the second reading on condition that it was to be referred to a Select Com mittee. But in the present Bill the recommenda tions of that Committee had not been attended to. The magistrates, for instance, were not, as originally pr o posed, to form a part of the board unless elected, and they were thus virtually excluded from al! participation in the administration of the funds, and that was an exclusion to which he was not prepared to assent. If the Bill remained in its present state it should receive his opposition in every stage of its progress. He did not see that any practical result would be arrived at by agreeing to the second reading, the time of the House would only be wasted fruitlessly and uselessly, and though adhering to the principle which it sought to establish, he felt compelled to refuse his assent to its further progress. Mr. BRIGHT observed that nothing had been said which showed that if legislation was desirable on the subject, a good Bill might not be made out of the measure of his Hon. Friend.—(Hear.) He accused the Secretary of the Home Department of being for merly a concealed, bat now an open opponent of a mea sure for the appointment of county financial boards. Mr. DEEDES said, having been a member of the Committee, he could bear testimony to the impartial part which had been taken by the Secretary of the Home Department.—(Hear.) The very material altera tions made in the Bill were not matters of detail, but of principle.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member repudiated .the assertion, that any party motives actuated the opponents of the Bill.—(Hear.) Mr. HUME was of opinion that one of the greatest anomalies in the country was the expenditure of so much money without any control. He was perfectly indifferent who introduced the Bill as long as the object was attained. He was somewhat surprised that the Secretary for the Home Department, who twice supported the principle of the Bill, should now turn round and give a denial of justice to the ratepayers. He had no desire to attribute any improper motives, but he thought the Right Hon. Baronet would show a better disposition towards the country if he would allow ,the Bill to go into Committee, when he could propose any alterations that he deemed necessary. Mr. HENLEY was of opinion there would be no difficulty in deciding who were the real friends of the parties who desired this important question settled and who were their opponents.—(Hear.) It was a question of great difficulty, and little understood by the-Hon. Member who had charge of the Bill. If he had availed himself of the assistance of the two Com mittees who had devoted so much time to the subject, he would have shown a more sincere desire to devise _ a satisfactory measure, perhaps not one that would meet the views of extreme parties, but would at at least not bring the financial affairs of counties to a dead lock. A very unfair attack had been made on a Minister of the Crown, who had made a great effort to put the Bill into some practicable shape, but he doubted whether the measure bad not been brought forward with a view to agitation.—(Hear.) Mr. BARROW said he supported the establishment of these county financial boards, and, so far as they did not interfere with the judicial functions of the magistrates, nothing ,was more reason , able than that the ratepayers should have no con fidence in the magistrates in regard to financial matters, because they were not elected by them, and were placed beyond any responsibility. He should certainly sup port the principle that property subject to taxation ought to have the right of protecting itself. He would vote for the second reading of the Bill.. Mr. CHRISTOPHER opposed the Bill on the ground that it was totally different from that which had twits received the sanction of the House. Mr. W. PATTEN agreed with the Hon. Member for Montrose that, whatever might be thu faults of this 13 , 11 rt:s great p..y Cu, ratijorizy of tho n:tepeycrs o. tuis (*awry be di. , appointi.l hy i ts re j. c .iun. Though, in deference to the feelings expressed by his own constituents he meant to support We second reading of the Bill, he must confess he was greatly disappointed by the course which had been taken by his Right Hon. Friend who had charge of the Bill. He hoped, how ever, that in Committee it would be restored somewhat to the shape which it had formerly borne, Mr. HEYWOOD bore testimony to the great desire which was felt in his part of the country on the part of the ratepayers for a change in their present position with regard to county rate ex penditure. He, however, greatly regretted the omission of the composition clause, and if they went into Com• mittee on the Bill he should certainly vote for its re-in sertion. The Bill of last year had been the result of careful investigation on the part of the Committee which had sat on the subject, and he should certainly have preferred seeing it brought in in the shape which it then wore. The gallery was then cleared for a division, when there appeared--- For the second reading . . Against it ... Majority The Bill was consequently lost. The Commons Enclosure Bill was then read a second time. 63 ... ... 130 ...-•--67 WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY lB, 1852. SECULAR EDUCATION. Mr. M. GIBSON moved for leave to bring in a Bill to enable local districta in England and Wales to estab lish free schools for secular education. Sir R. H. INGLIS said he should certainly object to the introduction of the Bill at the time when none of her Majesty's Ministers were present to state to the House what opinion they held with regard to it. Mr. M. GIBSON said that as opposition was in tended ha would postpone his motion until to-morrow. BOARD OF WORKS (IRELAND). Mr. FRENCH moved for a return of the works un dertaken by the Board of Works in the different counties in Ireland, under the Act 9 Vic. c. 1, specifying the amount presented at sessions for each, the sum expended, and whether the work has or has not been completed. The House then adjourned. THE BANK. By the return made by the Bank of England on the 31st January, it appeared that the stock of bullion in its coffers now amounts to 18,215,1721., while the amount of notes in circulation is 20,73i1,965/. The stock of bullion is therefore little less than 2i millions more than the whole Bank of England circulation! Thursday was "settling day" on the Stock Exchange, and the rate of "continuation" tor carrying over stock to the next account was so low as to make the value of money only from Ito l per cent. In the meantime, except in gold mining shares, there is little speculation. Men in the city who see the enormous mass of gold lying idle in the Bank say that " some thing must be done." Government is evidently unprepared to do anything, and is quite ignorant as to the proper course to take, It is not improbable that some expedient may be adopted to relieve the Bank, but there appears to be a feeling that the standard should not be interfered with, and that the " money power" should be held to their bond. Such appears to be the only " principle" at present elicited, viz., " monstrous injustice was committed in 1819 by raising the value of money, and defrauding debtors, therefore let us take advantage of the gold discoveries to injure creditors in 1852—Iex talionis !" Events are fast hasten ing on the absolute necessity of a reconsideration and revision of our monetary system. Let us have a com plete reform.—Derbyshire Courier. THE LONDON GAZETTE, Feb. 17 BANKRUPTCY SUPERSEDED. Charles Wilson, grocer. Coventry. BANKRUPTS. George Waterhouse, watch manufacturer, Rupert street, Haymarket, to surrender Feb. 23 and March 27, at half-past eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Ni cholson, official assignee, Basinghall-street ; West, Gresham-street. Thomas Buxton Barnes, surgeon,Thaxted, Essex, Feb. 26, at two, and March 23, at one, at the Court of Bank ruptcy. Edwards, official assignee, Sambrook-court, Basinghall-street; Sawbridge, Wood-street, Cheapside. William Steel, tailor, Fenchurch-street, City, Feb. 27, and March 26, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Stansfeld, official assignee; Stevens and Satchel, Queen street, Cheapside. John Miller, corn dealer, Conduit-street, Paddington, Feb. 27, at half-past twelve, and April 1, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Ba singhall-street; Lawrence, Plews, and Bover, Old Jewry -cham hers. Richard Knight, wholesale stationer, Plaistow, Essex, Feb. 27 and April 1, at twelve, at the Court of Bank ruptcy. Bell, official assignee, Coleman-street-build inge-,,Coe, Pinner's Hall. William Hawkins, "a'seedsman, Heage, Derbyshire, Feb. 27, and March 19, at twelve, at the Birmingham District Court. Bittleston, official assignee, Nottingham; Ingle and Son, Belper. James Tailor James, merchant, Liverpool, Feb. 27 and March 18, at eleven, at the Liverpool District Court. Turner, official assignee, Liverpool; Atherton, Liverpool. John Andrew Christian Reimann and John Gerard Geller, merchants, Liverpool, March 4 and 25, at eleven, at the Liverpool District Court. Bird, official assignee, Liverpool; North and Orred, Liverpool. Eden Clark and Henry Bleackley, ironmongers, Chorlton-upon-Medlock, Lancashire, March 2 and 29, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. Fraser, official assignee, Manchester; Lamb, Manchester. Richard Peacock, carpenter, Gateshead, Durham, Feb. 25, at eleven, and March 30, at twelve, at the New castle-upon-Tyne District Court. Wakley, official acsignee, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ; Scaife, Newcastle upon-Tyne. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. R. Woodcock, tailor, High-street, Kensington. M. G. Smith, attorney-At-law, Great James-street, Bed ford-row. J. Manuel, mariner, Farmer-street, Sbadwell. J. Baker, bailiff, Clayton's Farm, Mayfield, Sussex. DIVIDENDS. W. Nash, Noble -street, City, woollen warehouseman, March 12—W. Stanton, Buckingham, watchmaker, March 11—J. Colquhoun, Woolwich, money scrivener, Feb. 28—T. Salkeld, Basinghall-street, warehouseman, March 6—R. Molkentin, late of Bedford-street, Com mercial-road East, and late of Minories, shoe manufac turer, March 11—J. W. and H. Wood, Dearnley Mill, Lancashire, woollen manufacturers, March 9—J. and J. Rhodes, Rochdale, cotton spinners, March 11—J. Greenshields and M. ,Strang, Liverpool, merchants, March 10—J. Welc h, t4antwich, coach builder, March 10—T. H. Irwin, Liverpool, st oc kb ro k er , M arc h 10—G. Kyrke, Bryn Malley, Denbighshire, lime burner, March 10—T. Richardson , Liverpool, cutler, March 11—J. A. Ed wards, Toxteth-park, near Liverpool, lodging-house keeper, March 12. CERTIFICATES. J. H. Hatch, Friday-street, City, wholesale furrier, March 11—A. Monet, Creed-lane, City, wine merchant, March 11—W- Holmes, C ro b er ' s - cottages , Bedford street, Poplar, builder, March 11—G. Smith, Warlter's buildings, Old Kent-road, corn m erc h an t, M a rch 5—W. Pullein, late of Friday - street. Cheapside, woollen ware houseman, March 5—R. N. Reeve, Newgate-street, woollen-draper, March 6—T. Salkeld, BasinghaLl-street , warehouseman, March 6—E. Cairns, Newport, Mon inouths.hire, corn merchant, March 9—J. Hadfield, Manchester and Ashton, cotton spinner, March 11— R. Talbot, Lincoln, dealer in galvanic machines, March 10. CERTIFICATES GRANTED. G. Cook, Tottenham-court -road, furniture dealer, second class, Feb. 12—H. Wood, Cheltenham, draper, Feb. 13—W. Jones, Castle -street, Finsbury, cabinet maker, second class, Feb. 12 —T. Harrison, Addle-street, City, trimming manufacturer, third class, Feb. 13 — T. Dorrington, Leeds, cloth merchant, third class Feb. 13. INSOLVENT DIVIDEND. C. F. Chadwick, Redruth, first dividend of 2s. 9d. in the pound, Friday, Feb. 20, or any subsequent day, at the offiee of Mr. Paynter, Redruth. SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS. Mrs. Alexandrine Elder, Edinburgh, keeper of fur nished lodgings. Feb. 20 and March 16, at two, at Dowell's rooms, Edinburgh. contractor, Feb. 24 and March 23, at eleven, at the Cross 9 Keys s h H n W otel e , a li th e e i r s s o t . on Spylaw Tile Works, near Kelso , David Sandeman, Dundee, confectioner, Feb. 24 and March 16, at one, at the British Hotel, Dundee. Archibald M‘Diartnid, Edinburgh, tailor, Feb. 23 and March 15, at two, at the Royal Exchange Coffee.house. Edinburgh. THE NEW REFORM BILL. An important Return has just been printed by order of the House of Commons, which casts a strong light on the probable operation of the new Reform Bill. It gives us the present number of electors is every borough in Great Britain; and it gives us the number of houses rated to the relief of the poor in those boroughs. By comparing these two sets of Sgures together, we may form some reasonable computation of the result of the proposed measure, so far as it is intended to augment the constituencies of those boroughs. The whole list is too long to be given; bat we will extract from it some of the most important cases. In the following boroughs, the present constituency is placed side by side with the number of rated houses, and thus we shall see the greatest present extension of these electoral bodies. K w i h dd ter it e e r h m a i v n Q i n . . . . ...49 5 Present Electors. Rated Houses. 512 Warrington Wigan Tynemouth BB3 Wakefield ...... 5 5.215 7 4 1 3 0 9 3 Ashton 9 93 12 7 Dudley 6,002 Wenlock 905 . .... 4,029 Bury Walsall Macclesfield.. Halifax Rochdale 1,160 Blackburn Stockport . 1,341 Stroud Huddersfield Bolton Stoke Oldham Bradford . Preston Salford Wolverhampton Leicester 2 2 3,: 9 8 6 5 5 8 0 47 ......•••• 1 2 15 3 1 : 4 5 5 _ 7 : 83 0 Hull Nuuingham 5 35 ,12 8 2 5 2 6 3 1 0 .................. 1 1 1 3% 3 4 8 2 1 8 8 7 "7.550 Sheffield Leeds Birmingham Manchester Liverpool .................. 17,433 ti.,•• 64,212 The se specimens may suffice. Let us now deal with one or two frauds which are attempted to be practised upon us. 1. We are told that not all these houses will be en titled to confer the franchise, for that frequently houses are not rated as of 5/. value except they are really worth 7.1. We &newer, that we do not believe that there are in Liverpool, Birmingham, or Leeds, or any other of the great towns, many cottages letting for less than 71. per annum, or rateable at less than Si. Hence we believe that most of these " house rated" will qualify their occu pants to be on the register. 2. Next we are assured that the number that will pay their rates and qualify will be only a small propor tion of the whole. We believe that this will be the case at first. But there is nothing to prevent future overseeve from screwing up the rating, or from collect ing the' rates sharply, and in this way 64,212 rated houses in the borough of Liverpool might soon be made to yield 50,000 votes. The process, we know will be gradual. We may see how it has worked in the city of London. There are in the city of London 16,031 rated houses. As the whole ground. has long since been built over, there were, doubtless, as many in 1832, when the first register was made up, under the Reform Bill of that year. Well, in 1832, out of all these 16,031 houses, only 2,057 electors were q ualified. And we have no doubt that a similar fall ing short would now be perceived, if the new Bill were passed and a registration taken upon it. But let us proceed a little farther. Although it is true that in 1832 little more than half the householders in London were placed upon the register, it is equally true tlicit they have been increasing year by year ever since; ;and now the number registered is no fewer than 13,525, or about six out of every seven. The same tendency will be found in all other places, and we have no doubt that the result will be generally the same. Place a privilege within reach, and it will naturally be grasped at. Let us not, then, be deluded now with the vain assurance, that although we nominally enfranchise the 51. occupiers, not half of them will avail themselves of the privilege. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 17. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. DISTURBANCES IN IRELAND. The Earl of RODEN then rose to put a question to the Government on the subject of the outrages in Ire land. Since he last had the honour of addressing their Lordships on this subject additional threatening notices had been sent to some of the landed gentry in his neigh bourhood, and he was very much afraid the failure of the Special Commission would have the effect of aggra vating the evils. A meeting of landed proprietors and agriculturists had been held in the county of Louth. and they had passed a resolution expressive of their opinion that it was the duty of the Government to take immediate steps to suppress the secret societies existing in Ireland, and thus arrest some of those agrarian crimes which some members of those societies had in contem plation.—(Hear, hear.) Many of those societies had other objects besides agrarian; they were, in fact, dangerous political societies, and it was hope less to expect peace or prosperity in Ireland while they were allowed to carry on their proceedings with impunity.—(Hear, hear.) It was not for him, or those who urged him on this matter to suggest the means by which these societies could be suppressed and the terrible crime prevented, because it was the duty of those who undertook the government of the country to be prepared of their own accord to meet the emergency.—(Hear, hear.) It was a lamentable fact that crime of every description, but more especially that of murder, was rapidly on the increase, and the peaceably-disposed portion of the community had a right to look to the Government for immediate protection and redress.—(Hear, hear.) Justice was defied in many parts of Ireland, for those who made any attempt to maintain or enforce the law went in tear of their lives; and already, as. the returns on the table showed, a worthy and humane gentleman had been barbarously murdered for having done his duty as a magistrate.—(Bear, hear.) Now Govern ment, instead of taking measures to remove this shock ing state of things, were lukewarm in the discharge of their duty to the state, and no later ago than last Tues day two policemen were fined 10s., or ordered to be im prisoned as many days, for stopping people on the high way whom they suspected as being in possession of arms. It turned out, however, when they came to search one of them that, instead of a blunderbuss, it was a bottle of whisky the man had under his coat. The policemen, however, erred in the right direction, and they were, therefore, not deserving of any punishment.—(Hear.) Ile trusted this and all other similar cases would be in quired into, and that care would be taken to protect the police under all circumstances in the execution of their duty.—(hear, hear.) He concluded by moving for cer tain returns connected with the state of the counties of Louth and Armagh, and relating to the crimes of murder and other outrages committed in those counties since the Ist of January. audible in the gallery , was understood to say , that Go- The Marquis of LANSDOWNE , who was scarcely , vernment was fully alive to the evils which existed in Ireland, and the importance of applying a remedy to them as speedily as possible.—(Hear, hear.) Govern ment had done all in their power to discover the perpe trators of these murders, and he was not aware that any of the police force had been ever blamed for exercising an undue vigilance in the discharge of their duties.— (Hear, hear.) There would be no objection to make the return which the Noble Earl called for.—(Hear, hear.) The Earl of WICKLOW hoped the Government would not lose sight of the fact that many of the evils could be removed by legislation. The Earl of GLENGALL blamed the Govern ment for having appointed the recent Special Com mission; it would have been much better had the law been allowed to follow the usual course, and there might have been a chance of insuring a con viction of the offenders. As it was, the Special Com mission had only had the effect of increasing the alarm which prevailed in Ireland, for while some of the jury were for a conviction, only three were for an acquittal, and as those three would not give way, an im pression had got abroad that this might be the result of the trials in other cases. and thus neither property nor life was safe in the country. The criminal law of Ireland required amend ment, and.he hoped the present session would not be al lowed to close without an effort being made to effect that amendment.—(Hear, hear.) Lord LYNDHURST postponed a motion of which he had given notice on this subject until after the trials at the approaching assizes. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought it would be desirable that their Lordships should see the shorthand writer's notes of the trials of the special commission at Monaghan. Lord BROUGHAM thought the suggestion to change the venue was very important. It was net a novelty, for the practice existed in Scotland; but he could not say that he gave his assent to it. Lord ABINGER believed the proceedings had origi nated under the Crime and Outrage Act, which authorised a search for weapons, so that the matter was the more unexplainable. The returns were then ordered. VOLUNTEER RIFLE CORPS. Lord COLCHESTER gave notice of moving for re turns relative to the formation of volunteer corps. THE SIEGE OF LAGOS. Viscount CANNING, seeing the Noble Earl the Se cretary for Foreign Affairs in his place, wished to ask him if be had any objection to lay on the table any reasonably papers relativ e t o t h e events w hi ch h a d ta k en p l ace at Lagos? Th e i r L or d s hi ps wou ld h ave seen a copy o f the official r e p orts o f the commo d ore o f t h e squa d ron y re o a l t aim loss to on the coast, f rom w hi ch i t appeare d t h at t h ere had been a nabgl Their Lordships might of h lit e avelurthr information. on the subject, as in the first paragraph of the report allusion was made to instructions which had been re ceived from the Admiralty. He did not ask this ques tion from any feeling of opposition to the great cause of the suppression of the slave trade. It had been the practice to father on the slave trade much expense and loss of life; but he thought they might gather in this instance, from the statement which had already ap peared, that the present loss of life was not entirely de pendent on the slave trade. Whether the attack on Lagos had been consequent on a desire on our part to protect our commerce, or to depose one King and set up another, he could not say; but he thought the expe rience which his Noble Friend had had from being ex officio protector of one black King on the Mosquito shore would not induce him to take upon himself a similar office with reference to another on the other side of the Atlantic. If his Noble Friend consented to lay the papers he had moved for on the table, he would ask him also to cause to be extracted from any preceding blue books such dispatches as would tend to throw light on the instructions which had been given to the naval officers on the west coast of Africa. Earl GRANVILLE would lay the informatioe quired on the table at the earliest possible opportunity. bee The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH should like n at issue t th e d same time to know whether any order had t of Africa from the Admiralty to the officers on the coas o perations not to fight on Christmas-day 2—(A• la u g h.) il ay , and bad had been commenced two days before that , elay he be then been suspended for 24 hours, to ta nne ta half the men lieved might be attributed the loss n o n f e to the mortality who had been killed. With referebe thought great im. generally on board African_ships,_ 'Wing them our. Some provement might be made in board a ship at Ply awning on years ago he saw an d be was astonished to Africa, an mouth about to sail to it would neither keep off the find its wretched stet: c onsequen tly ordered a new o ne rain nor sun ; and htn ~d b e fitted to the ship. Some time properly constr ucts informed him that it answered a f terw ards the ca h at it was the envy of all the other most admirably; - s o coast, and tended greatly t a on the Milo 0 pre ship- hea lth of the crew. The awning was so serve the con trivedsave all the water which fell it, and it as to _ a vantage and comfort t o the crew. He as a great d w w i s hed the Megsera had been fitted with one of the same c haracter: COUNTY COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION BILL. The House went into Committee on this Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR objected to the clause empowering barristers to act with attorneys, and said there were two points for the consideration of the House, namely, how far it would be desirable to allow barris ters to practise without the intervention of attorneys' and how far it was likely that a new order in the profes sion would arise from attorneys associating themselves with barristf-rs and practising as advocsieg. He had hoard porsoLa from America speak ci trio ,uperior order maiutaiiied in our courts to that which existed iu Laose of the United States; and they attributed it to the fact of barristers there being allowed to perform the folic" of attorneys. Ha objected to barristers acting as MS" net's, and he also objected to attorneys performing the duties of barristers, for it was said that a certain class of attorneys would usurp the place of barristers, and act as advocates. If his Noble and Learned Friend persisted in moving the clause he objected to, he should propose an amendment to it. Lord BROUGHAM said that in every court but the co . unty courts a barrister could appear instructed by a without the interve n ti on o f an attorney . Th e prohibition of barristers pr act i s i ng i n cowry courts without being instructed by an attorney was first made in 1846; and the only question now was whether they should continue that prohibition, or pl ace county courts on the same footing with the other courts, great and little, leaving this matter in future to professional feel. ing. He did not see why county courts alone should be subjected to this rule. If the prohibition had never been enacted, it was admitted that it would not now be de sirable to do so; but it was said that by repealing such a clause, a legal sanction would be given to the practice of barristers altogether independent of attorneys. This, however, he did not believe would be the case if a strong expression of opinion went forth that it was not de sirable and would be inconsistent with professional etiquette. It was now the practice for attorneys to act as advocates not only in county courts, but in various other courts, greatly to the injury of the bar. .Barristers were told by attorneys to take briefs at their peril in county courts; aud, unless they had attained eminence in their profession, they were effectually excluded from county courts, for if they took briefs in them they would not get employed at the sessions and assizes. An attor ney, at a public meeting at Freemasons' Tavern, the other day, said that as the attorneys had sufficient power over barristers, they would not employ them in other matters if they did not consent to divide the guinea with attorneys when they took briefs in county courts. One hundred and fifty barristers, and among them many men of eminence, had signed a declaration on this subject, and he represented their interests on this occasion. A hun dred others, among them seven Queen's Counsel, had ex pressed themselves in favour of this matter being left to the etiquette of the procession; but they objected to sign the declaration to that effect, because they did not wish their names to be published for professional reasons. The Attorney-General had also expressed his concur rence in the prayer of the memorialists, that they should be allowed to practise in the county courts as in other courts. Lord Denman was of the same opinion, and bad written to him that morning urging him to persevere in the retention of the clause giving to barristers the privi lege they claimed. And when he stated that of 80,000 suits commenced in 1840, 2,000 alone came to trial, ver dict, and judgment, and that in the county courts 6,000 cases a year were now tried, involving amounts from 201. to 50/., he thought their Lordships would agree with him that it was a cruelty, in this state of the law business, the profession should bo excluded, as they now were, from the county courts.—(Hear, hear.) Lord CAMPBELL considered that the distinctions at present maintained between barristers and solicitors were of the highest importance to the due administra tion of justice, and ought not on any account to be in terfered with. He feared that if the employment of barristers were permitted without the intervention of attorneys, a set of advocates might spring up, either not barristers at all, or who, if they were, would be ef the worst class of the profession. It should be recol lected that attorneys were under the direct control of the court, and could be struck off the rolls in case of any misconduct or irregularity. A barrister would not be so controllable, as he could only be disbarred by ap plication to the benchers, and after a long previous in vestigation. It was from a foresight of these disad vantages that clause 91 had been introduced, and, having been once introduced, and having worked so ad vantageously, he feared that mischievous consequences would ensue if it were now repealed, because it would go forth that that House was anxious to encour ege a free trade in law, and that all who chose might come forward as advocates. It was only very shortsighted persons who declared that the State could not interfere to control matters of this kind, in which the lives and properties of mankind were so deeply interested. The gentlemen to whom his Noble Friend had referred were men of high intelligence and of unblemished honour; but there were in the profession men of a very different kind , ready to set every scruple at defiance, and who, far their own sel fish ends, would seriously embarrass the course of jus tice in these courts. His Noble Friend had referred to a very eminent member of the profession, the Attorney- General; but it should be remembered that that Gen tleman was actuated by the most anxious zeal for the interests of his order, while the duty of their Lordships . was. to look only to the public benefit. The Attorney- General proposed that in all suits above 201. a barrister should be employed, and that ie should have pre. audience, which would lead to this in county courts, that in every suit the employment of two law agents would be necessary. He believed that it was for th e b enef i t of the public that the distinction between barrister and attorney should be preserved, and therefore should sup port the amendment of the Noble Lord on the Woolsack. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that if he under stood his Noble Friend aright, he had stated that se veral persons had signed a paper to th e e ff ect that there should be no intervention between barrister rind client. Lord BROUGHAM—That the enactment of '46 should be repealed for the purpose of giving a bar to the county courts. The LORD CHANCELLOR—If he untherstood his Noble Friend aright, there were 100 barristers who had signed, and 150 who had not signed, that paper. Lord BROUGHAM —His Noble Friend had quite misconceived him, The facts were quite the reverse.— (A laugh.) His statement was that 150 had signed, and 100 had declined to sign. The LORD CHANCELLOR —Well, there were 100 who had not signed, and he believed his Noble Friend might have very much increased the number had he tried. Lord BROUGHAM —But the 100 highly approved. The LORD CHANCELLOR —Then, if they ap proved, why had they not signed? His experience led him to believe that the bar were by no means desirous of obtaining the protection so generously offered them by his Noble Friend. What was his argument? That the attorneys had entered into a combination, and de clared that they would not employ, either at sessions or assizes, any barrister who appeared in a county court. His Noble Friend's object was to protect the bar from that combination, and his means were, to allow them to appear in a county court without having been previously instructed by an attorney. Why, that would oppose them more directly to the effects of the combination. If their Lordships calculated the number of cases carried to the county courts, and then extracted the portion in which counsel would be employed directly from the client, they would find the emoluments such as to support only a ve:ry inferior bar. 'He feared the members would hardly belong to the more respectable grades in the profeesion. He thought it a matter of the highest im portance that the barrister should not communicate directly with his client, because if he did he must com municate also with the witnesses, who, as a rule, were neve r admitted to consultation. He hoped it never would be said that the House of Lords had sanctioned such a practi Lord BROUGHAM—Recommended by Lord Den man. Tho LORD CHANCELLOR—Even recommended by Lord Denman. Lord BROUGHAM—And Lord Lyndhurst. The LORD CHANCELLOR—His Noble Friend m i g ht, quote as many more names as he liked, but he feared' that if barristers were permitted to act without the intervention of attorneys in these courts, they would have a class of men frequenting the neighbouring publi c . houses, and picking up grounds of defence in all sorts of impossible cases, and setting up claims which never could have entered any honest head. Was not such a state of things calculaked to tarnish the administration of justice? He believed that if the proposed privilege were conferred it would prove a serious mischiet both to the public and the bar. Lord BROUGHAM said he had been totally misap prehended by his Noble Friend. His Noble Friend's argument was based on the assumption that he (Lord Brougham) was an advocate for barristers going into all h a d courts without the intervention of attorneys. Set at proposed no such thing , he had merely propos ed they should be protected from a gross and crying Friend One word as to the result. Did his Noble n who were hundreds of respectable nao down and a buse. pose that the victims to this combination would quietly lie die, without an attempt to defend the uette of the au they might reconsider and alter the or less a matter of • courts. Etiquette was perior iikel re that ly eintisgelves? Perhaps finding them fancy, and it was exceeding se lv e s shut out by statute f r o mthe en all participation in the . tion w ould recons ider business of those courts, t he Y t : in the superior courts. ht a que tte which alone ties thew hP t e t ven his Noble Friend If t h e y did so, he t hong would hardly venture to legislate against their deter would The clause proposed by the Lord Chancellor was then reporte d to the Ro use . ag reed to, and the Bill was Their Lordships t h e n adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 17. The SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes before Four o'clock. PETITIONS. Mr. MOODY presented a petition from Kerry , pray ing for an amendment of the Irish poor. laws. Mr. FORSTER presented a petition from Berwick against the post horse duty. Lord C. MANNERS presented a petition from a p l ace in Leicestershire, praying that the annual grant to May nooth may be abolished. Lord DUDLEY STUART presented a petition from Marylebone, praying for the repeal of the ,p2; l t - h duty. Also a petition from the solicitors 0! Kentish town, praying for the repeal of the attorneys cert ificate duty. Mr. CARDWELL presented a petitionnefirdoem. Brighton in favour o f th e en f ranc hisement of ° Mr. COBDEN presented a petifn favour of secular ioeP nfrom the Sunday school teachers of Manche ster education. Mr. M. GIBSON Presennteetd a petition from Wisbea c h of the Stamp authorities, ent of the jaw relating t o of the coendndm and praying for an a m newspaper stamps- TAX. 4 ON KNOWLEDGE. g r e notice that this day f or t n i g ht Mr. M. G I . B6°N is motion in reference t o th e paper he should bri ng onin p_imposed on newsp a p ers . d ut i es and the st a THE MILITIA. Lord PALMERS fON gave notice that on bringing up the re port o f the resolutions agre e d to i n C o mmittee esterday, w i th regard to the amend men t o f the Militia L aw s, he should move to add after the word " amend ment" the word " consolidate." He should also move to word . " local" with the view t he g a mea omit the sure brought in_ which shall prf,virk% means of dc alers, ju thy untort!thato evor.:l of v ae, not to Ei:giaLd only but for all parts of the United Kingdom.—(Cheers.) MAYNO 0 TH. Mr. SPOONER postponed his motion on the subject of Atynooth to thin day fortnight,. lONIAN ISLANDS. BUME also postponet ha motion on tho subject of the loaian Islands. THE ARTY. Colonel CHATTERTON.asked the Secretary at War JI he intended to recommend the discontinuance of the deductions to which officers of the cavalry are subject in paying for the forage of their regimental chargers, kept for the public service, whilst other mounted officers in the service received an allowance for that purpose. The Gallant Member also put other questions respecting the pay of officers in the cavalry and other regiments.' Mr. VERNON SMITH, in reply, said he had been so short a time in office that bis attention had not yet been directed to the subject, but he could assure the Gallant Colonel that his best energies and abilities should be given to all questions affecting the comfort and interest of the army. LOSS OF THE AMAZON. Lord C. HAMILTON asked the President of the Board of Trade, if he had any objection to lay on the table of the House a copy of the report and of the evi dence taken before the Committee appointed by the Board of Trade to inquire into the circumstances at tending the lose of the Amazon strain-ship. Mr. LABOUCHERE said the report as well as the evidence were in the hands of the printer, and he hoped to lay them on the table in a day or two. CABUL WAR. Sir HENRY WILLOUGHBY tasked the President of the Board of Control whether he would place on the table of the House copies of the entire dispatches of Captain Burnes (Sir Alexander Burnes) to Vir• Macnaghten, Esq., the Secretary, with the Governor- General of India, dated from Cabul, the 4th day of October 1837, sth day of October 1837, 31st day of October 1837, 26th day of January 1838, sth day of March 1838, 13th day of March 1838, 24th day of March 1838, 25th day of April 1838, and from lalalabad 30th day of April 1838. He intimated that his reason for putting the question was that it been stated in a work recently pub lished that the dispatches previously laid on the table had been garbled. Mr. FOX MAULE said it was never pretended that the dispatches as laid before the House were entire ; only such extracts from them were g iven as the Government thought would inform the House with reference to the policy pursued at Cabul• Already two discussions had taken place on the sub ject in the House, and it was not his intention to. lay the dispatches in extenso before the public, and again raise up a question which, with all its iteptlieti faults and realised misfortunes, was now a m atter of history, and ought not to be revived. EXTENSION OF THE CAPE TERRITORY Mr. ADDERLEY asked the Under Secretary of State for the Calonies whether the Government had in preparation the Bill for the extension of British jade diction in South Africa to the Equator, which Earl G re y stated his intention to introduce this session, in s dis patch to Sir Harry Smith, given in the papers on th e assumption of the Orange Sovereignty, presented t o th i s House on the 19th day of May last? Mr. FREDERICK PEEL said Earl Grey did sn' nounce to Sir H. Smith that it was his intention to pro pose an Act for extending the British jurisdiction to th d Equator, but he had not thought it advisable to Prec e ;,,,, with the measure while war continued at the no t! frontiers. As the war was not yet terminated no sieP had been taken for the preparation of the measure. THE MEGIERA. Admiral BOWLES moved for copies of all reports received by the Board of Admiralty or the Com in -Chief, stating the condition of her Msje ship for the Meg atter having embarked troops at Dover Cape of Good Hope. minder - Sir F. BARING said he should have no objection tc). the return, but he thought after the attacks which /2 1 . 1 a been made on the Admiralty on the subject, that ought to have au early opportunity of making sot" answer to them. Mr. ROEBUCK said that b a yi ng bad some co mmu t cations with a Gall a nt Ad m i ra l, t he colleagu e of the Hon. Baronet, he wished to p m ut certain question?.oa. this same matter, and if th e Hon. Baronet ha d no ew tion, he would put them now. Sir F. BARING said that he should shortly hav e ,_ ic ; make some statem e nts on th e su bj ec t, and would rata!! the lion. and Learned Gentleman waited until then. The return was then agreed to. THE METROPOLITAN CENSUS RETURNS.. r Sir G. GREY said that he wished to state, in spel l ! ._ to a question which had been put to him the othe r Big " ! that having made inquiries from the Registrar - G enera he had ascertained tnat the returns of the Metropolita n Census laid upon the table of the House were incorreg as regarded London. The copying clerk who prepareof them had inserted the male population only, instead, the gross amount of male and female. An amenclea turn would very shortly be laid on the table. MILITIA SUBSTITUTES. In answer to a question from Mr. M. GIBSON , t b lj Mr. FOX MAULE said that by the provisions of , s . Bill introduced last night substitutes would be Pt mitted under certain modified circumstances. SAVINGS BANKS. Mr. HENRY HERBERT rose to move the ing resolution, of which he had given notice:. --- " That this House has observed with regret the lee sl - neglect of her Majesty's Governme nt " fufil their promise of introducing a ''''''' fl r the regulation of the Savings Banks, by which thole e r folio , a re important institutions may be enabled to preserve thai hold on the confidence of the country, and a due enoott ragement be thus given to the industry of the working classes." He said that, considering dtf: important nature of the subject to *which he w isbe hi ; call the attention of the House, it might be thoug that it would have been more expedient had it been irti and providenpe ), troduced by some Member of greater experience who ha r e 1 . stronger claims upon their attention. The peculiar s ir cumstance in which the subject stood must, howeYe.r9. l ~ his apology. In 1848 a Select Committee was appoin!ir2 to inquire into the subject, and at the end of the sees _el reported that it had not had time to pursue their ineitilrL !.... as far as was necessary, but recommended that Vie r 1 . quirt' should be continued in the ensuing session; P_ commended, also, that some measure should 1 r introduced into the House on the subject._ ._O, 1849 propositions were brought forward _to renew the Committee, which the Government oPlor ri ., but on two occasions they were left in a minority. . n • ee. 1850 the Government did bring in a Bill which corm! 0 /7 . 1 . did not encounter any opposition in that House, body from some cause or other, was never proeeeb:4 with; and since that time no steps bud e e ca. taken by the Government to legislate on the 080 .. The first establishment of savings' banks dated 40 ye . 4 1 :: four in ago, but it was not until 1817 that the Legislature ll_ 5 fared with them, at which time there were 70 in Engl,l_ it establishment the trustees were responsible for the thewho re Wales, and four in Ireland. On their . 1 0 __ to depositors, so that as long as they were solvent con ii = could be no loss. The enactment of 1844, hovrer er i ' bi lik y. pleted an entire change and destroyed their rope: Mr. Tidd Pratt stated before a Committee of 8 00 10 14 sh trot Or 31. in 1848, that the Government had no more oeu the y hied the trustees and actuaries of savings banks th tll3 ; of h is over a private gentleman in the manitg e `u., who, elll own private a ff airs. Thus these bodies of re t , e ",. he quere the admission of the Chancellor of the e' 4l " ro tetil habitually neglected their duty, were eat . he , with enormous amounts of the savings of : I :A poor, and yet au Act of Parliament ..1!'17.. been passed to absolve them from all responsibility in the law. The some amendment was necessary These few facts, he thought, were s ufficient to show thet‘. the leading` parties M em be w r h nz h t e c s c a rc id i: m eans o f Ihsaindrd of the conduct of Mr.. Tidd Pratt, expense t he an d "e l l i i tigation,to sar i'' ous to depositors . He had been ous injury like a breach o fprivi lege guiltygreatand of somet hing banks. Ho had, t e l x oss of in regard to several inquiry . in the firs t instance, opposed an into the Cuffe- stre et ' Bank, though the balance-sheets sent to the National. Office showed a Debtgradual decreasing National. pt t h oug h ficiency, when it failed i n 1848, the defalcations amounted - to no lees a sum than 64,6891. There had beenf "lures at similar al Rochdale, Brighton, Hull, Aylesbury , an d other town& In some cases the trustees had generously and nobly , made good the losses; but bad been the sufferers, and hadhin others the depoasiw_s_ . ness of the misery and wretchedness h e himself been s batt i k failures had occasioned which the ositore. I t was, therefore , among the unfortunate.dep the public 9 perfectly obvious that the interests or wiled for some protect i on protection a ga inst th e management and i bent the kingdom. insecurity of savings bank s throug The CHAN CELLOR s t a te d , in of the EXCHEQU ER in repl y to the Hon. Member's observations respecting the _ personal c haracter and respons ibilit y of Dir. Tidd r? P --a • 1 1 that he was not a Government officer, but eas simply named in the Act of Parliament as a person wh om the trustees or depositors might call in 10 examin e i n to the affairs of a bank, or to arbitrate between them, and without he was so called oa he had neither powe r to visit a bank, nor had the Government power to send him. As regarded the Cuife-street Bank, when he was called in . by the de positors in 1831 be was utterly deceived as to the star of its affairs, but on that occasion he gave 0° 3 4 13 advice which, if followed, would have prevente eui d he r catastr ophe which ensued. The Honourable h i te bl a med him for not altering the law, but -- i n troduced a Bill last session which would have " W hil e. died many of the defects now complained of, --t it was opposed by a gr oa t portion of the Uouse. What was asked f o r was , that the entire nianagewe° of these banks sho u ld b e in the hands of the trustees and managers, and that Government should be re; sponsible, and to that he could not cons ent, s pa on that account no agreement could "' come to with those who were 8E 1 % 1°116 to have some enactments on this subject. It would be re membered that in 1850 Government was obliged to abar don many of the Bills which it had introduced, in Oa? r sequence of the press of business at the end of the sea si and he thought it was scarcely possible to ha" passed a Bill of this n at u re. Since that time additional information had been obtained of gr€l l/ importance relating to this subject, which 06 was convinced would tend to improve all measure submitted to the House. He could assure the Home that he was quite as anxious as any one could 1 1 to see some beneficial measure passed, and he hop e b e fore the end of the session to i ntroduce and pass One which would give full satisfaction to all p the a rties. Mn. REYNOLDS thoug ht that the House and country had some right t o blame the Government fo r the delay which had occur red in the introduction of sein e meas ure on the subjec t of savin g s banks. Be Wit..! glad, however, to hear that the Right Hon. Gent se lem eti the Chancellor of t he Exchequer had pledged him 11 0 t° bring in a Bill t his session, for so he had Underst oo d , the Right Hon . Gentleman's speech. He enndernr!ulal We couno taken by the Government, in not giviogJ___ remunera tion to the depositors in the Cu ff e-street 707, i ng s Bank, for the losses which the y had it) ourred,..4 also strongly disa pp roved of the conduct of 111 1 % 1 :l„ Fran with reopeot to that 624 other N or boor , r