The Sun. — London, England, 1852-05-22 00:00:00

enable her Majesty to constitute such bishopric; and to Pne i bl a her Majesty further to sub.livide the diocese of Ns Zealand. Also, An Act to repeal certain disabilities under the first of George the First, chapter thirteen, and the sixth of George the Third, chapter fifty-three. Also, An Act to authorise the grautin Of leases of estates devised by the w ill o f J o h n Clarkson, , de- Ceased, situate in the counties of Mtddlesex and Surrey. Also, An Act to enable Francis Adams, Esq., or other the committee of the estate of Mary Shute Adam's,: a. person of unsound mind, for and in the mime and on behalf of the said Mary Sbuto Adams, to consent to the exercise of certain p owers conta i ne d i n :tli e - marriav settlement of the said Francis Adams, and in' a certain Act of Parliament passed in the first year of' the reign of her present Majesty, and to exorcise the'power of appointing new trustees contained in the said settlement, and for extending the powers of sale and exchange con tained in such settlement. MILITIA BILL. _ „ The House then went again into Committee on the Militia Bill. Clause 25, being read, repealing so much of 42 . George 111. as authorises the militia being drawn out and em bodied in cases of rebellion and insurrection, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Goverhment had considered this ciatie, which, with the permission of the Committee, they postponed on the previous night. The clause had been objected to by a Member opposite (Sir H.s.Verney), and he was stip ported by others, and there appeared to b e a great eyns pathy with him also on that (the Ministerial) side of the Bouse; so that there was a very preponderating objection to the clause. Under these circumstances, the Guvernment would not proceed with the clause. Mr. BRIGHT suspected on the previou s n i ght that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not then the slightest intention of passing this clause. The Hon. Baronet (Sir H. Verney) made some obje c ti on to it, and was followed by a Member who lied some notice on the paper with regard to it; and the Right Ron, Gentleman, without wait i ng for anything like an expression ot Opinion on the part of the Committee, rose either to withdraw or po'st pope it; he (Mr. Bright) thought be was about to with draw it, but he ended by proposing to postpone it. Now, let the Home Secretary see the course to which he was lending h imself. When he introduced the Bill he referred to this clause and to the fact that the Govern ment-had-no-intention of increasing their military power for purposes conneeted with the suppression of public opinion here, but that the Bill was intended entirely for, purposes of defence ; and he relied on this clause also when opposing the motion to alter the oath so as to limit the service to England and Wales.—(llear, bear.) The withdrawal of the clause was one of those tricks which a Government not remarkable,foents straightforwardee f is or character for aboveboard dealing had been playing. epee the House for the purpose of obtaining their support to this obnoxious measure. He (Mr. Bright) believed the clause was not placed in the Bill with any intention to carry it. It seemed as if the arguments of the Home Secretary were to bo founded upon this clause with re gard to the character of the Bill, and then, when the lime came, the clause might bo conveniently got rid of, havin' served its purpose. The whole conduct of the Go vernment allowed it to be suspected, ho grieved to say laugh)—that they had not dealt honestly and openly with the House with regard to this clause. The conclusion was unavoidable that Ministers had elides , 'retrofit to persuade the House that the object was to raise . • 80,000 men for defensive operations only, when, in re se- • (they, it was as likely that what they meant to do was „ to repress popular feeling, if they were bold aadsreek - • • leasoeoeugh to propose as a Government what they ad ,. vocsted in Opposition. The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQUER said the consolation of Ministers under the reproaches of the se, Ron. Gentleman was, that the conviction of their truth . Was not shared by any considerable number of Mem . s. •-•bere. The fact that the Secretary of State argued from • thieclause proved his sincerity. If he could have fore 'seen That this clause would not have remained in the he would not have founded en argument on its ex ''' iste nee. • His Right [-lon. Friend h a d g i ven up th e c l ause With reluctance, when one who could judge of the teeepsr of the House ot Commons must have seen on the subject of the clause a very preponderant opinion. He (the. Chancellor of the Exchequer), hardly remembered an • • instance in which a similarity of opinion had been more • ; • t general. As to the clause being the most important, s• an important clause, he could not agree in thinking it no.: •It might be important in the eyes of the Hon. • rinatiewitio, who wanted to guard aga i nst some hypo thetical policy which he thought Ministers were going , .to follow:- No doubt, if they had then the profound . . prescience which the Hon. Gentleman had, they. -might find even in the clauses of the Militia, Bill agree support for a policy. But that, he (the Chancellor • • oistile Exchequer) supposed, must be a play of the stutters) fancy of the Hon. Gentlemate—(A laugh.) He 4 01144 thou g ht t h e H on . G ent l eman ' s nearest neighbour could have shared in that somewhat sour pleasantry. '"'(Laughter )I It was not a single objection on th at s i de • 'etr the other w hi c h l e d' to the relitiquishment of the Ch inet• it was not resolved to withdraw it till the. G overnment were convinced that a majority of the Com ' he 7 Plittee Were opposed to it. He had asked leave to have the dense postponed; he had not taken the opportunity • .* offered to him of moving its omission, but he had tried to ascertain the feeling of the Committee, and ho was le , , etelavinced it was utter l y i n va i n to attempt to carry the •, • :clause. , • Mr. M. GIBSON, reminding the Committee of a re " mark made by the Noble Lord at the head of the late Ad ministration, that no one knew so well as a late dis tinguished statesman how to dress up a case, expressed the suspicion that this ° 1 e had been put into the Bill • to dre ss i t up and give it Popular aspect. He felt, he would oot say insulted, but treated rather lightly, in not having the m easure brought before the Committee in a Keenly way. It was thought certain Members ~ • would be quieted if votes were given to the militia, and _ • the militia could not be called out to suppress insurreo • plion. Ho did not want to be caught by these baits; .3 , were concepti ons of the Government ' s own; but, • having " induced H on Members on his side to withdraw . , &heir o pposition on ac count o f one of those propositions, he • should say that the course pursued savoured a littl e o f , that peculiar' practi ce k nown under the name of jockey th le i hi sometimes resorted to when it was impossible to - • (car e - e , • a measure in a straightforward manner. Both the propositional to which he had alluded were hammered on the same anvil. He would ask what sort of insurrec ilon, whet species of popular movement, would call for the use of those 80 000 men? Would it be a resort t o arms , or,publie meetings? He begged to inquire first, what ZroOld be a l eg i t i mate occas i on f or calling out and em bodying that force? And, secondly, whether by l aw i t -• uld be nec essary to ca ll P ar li ament together and state ' eLl'a grounds for the procedure which, in the case sup szse • Posed, the Government would adopt? -* 't ;Mr-CLAY h a d no doubt Ministers were strongly con- inted that rebellion in this country was purely irapos '' - t h ie. He did nen think the clau s e " an important one ; . _ b at, si nce i t had appeared, it was unwise to withdraw it, • - I)ooatliie the accusation brought against the Government 'would be repeated in a form in which it was more likely , ~'&0 be h e li e f e d t h an i n the Home of Com mons , "e. „'air. J. BELL could not believe there wag any inten t &Lou of trickery on the part of Ministers in proposing a ndevithdrawing this clause. But he 'thought it unwise , oterefollow t h e ex a mp le of `continental kin g d oms wh i ch • , -Preserved order only by armies. •• • MOFFATT• had viewed the clau se with - satis faction as showing that the Government did sot look to the possibility of a popular outbreak, but had confi d en ce in the p eop l e. It had grown into an axiom that - zeilitiemen were the last kind of troops that ought to be ' employed in patting down local' disturbances. The ATTORNEY-GENERA.L, in reply to the ques tions of the Right H on. Member for Manchester, stated that the Chanceor of the Eitehequer•had very clearly • stated what wasps object of the withdrawal d of the clause. The Committee must first e whether this • clause should form part of the pal . se o e fo e re i the necessity aids() for answering the Right ~,,licarrelenng to the definition of instirrecatonenl, btasucislte,esif the which struck n te . n o d u e t Part of the 42d it.;:lvir,oeuildalbe unnecessary tGoagoirvgeball. d tg w o j e t r i n e ni and if the clause remained part of the Bill, the occasion never could ariaeliwehednidtaheottllti: on to provid e the would be called out for this servi ce . Act of the clovernment ought to be Right MO. s p a rovide n d t b Gentleman with d In regard t o meat il t ee th ° a n t d i ci n u als t e i° a n o ' f i r t ebellio - n, &c., it should be lawful for her Majesty to employ the force, the occasion be in , communicated to Parliament, if Parliameut were sittingg, and declared in Council, if Parliament were not sitting, • and also by proclamation. • Mr. EVANS expressed his surprise that the Secretary for the Home Department had not explained wh y the clause had been introduced. A dissolution was approach ,, tog. After s tating what he conceived to be the motives eyi,.'„Which first induced the Government to insert the clause, o • tn.:14116n to propose to, withdraw it, the Hon. Gentleman Fl t clared his 'opinion to be that they who adopted the ,I,Vituse were right, and that those who objected to it were • ` • - The withdrawal of the clause would excite the emet Ptciou of the country. _ n ett Yr. PACKE did not consider that the Com , m ed it t t h ee e the withdrawal a tey e a r t g a t b s ,ingho.do . .with the . motives which setae, of ee, either in the introduction or wa s it t ° l4 ttnet but he could not help asking of what 1169 ° refer, the Bill to Committee if the Govern , ruent were a • m r, eees 0 at liberty to amend it? tion of the 42d * said, that in comparing the 111th see the present 8 . George lIL with the oath prescribed b n y . sietency. to swear Bythat ili t , there appeared to him to be an ince this Bill the militiaman was called upon Rin g d o e would serve in any part of the United just in Ent but bY the 111th clause of the Act he had tekeis hntioned it was provided that the forces should be Was o,lhto any pin of Great Britain—the distinction Be re i t rt°° 6 between serving in ho United Kingdom and Gellg in Great Britain. 'Te ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought the Hon. tin see • the 54th had overlooked a more recent Act, that of 'Whichet of ,George lIL, called the Interchange Act, by to t h e might be removed from one kingdom seen,....nuere ,Eie would there find that the oath pre ,e__ehu to the militiaman was the same as that which wm .: l ) ll serted in the present Bill. • v le is t i tT; ty G ' TI TO • MPSON entered his protest against the ram takyeanithtwas obtained upon this clause ' n the sli night, as he considered it to have °c oon red under circumstances of a most extraordinary allacracter. The H on . M em b er addresse d the H ouse for „ ensid era b le i amidst cont • nuous cries ot " Ques tons,” Which made him wholly inaudible , in the gelletY • Moi r / several ineffectual efforts to obtain • a hearing, he Mefed that the Chairman report progress and ask leave to sit again. Mr. BRIGHT said m ight be the degree that, whatever it must be admitted eittu se itself, the fact of its h • introduced into the • Bill by the Government of importance attached to the eying been ...retro by the Government and then afterwards with make the claus e . dose ht was of sufficient importance 14.) k —rrir ig'‘f•-lhe•ittention of the s~ ~~ ,? • ia~ •t T H -Committee. He hoped, therefore, it would be allowed to be discussed with fairness and patience„ _ Mr. G. THOMPSON assured the Committee he did not wish to trespass upon their attention byoud what we's necessary for the expression o f hi s h onest opinion. Th© Secretary for the Home Department had said that tha.Chaneellor of the Exdbequer had withdrawn this clause with reluctance. .':rho clause was one Which must have occupied , the attention of the Ge , vernment, awl could not have been ad6pted by them without the most deliberate consideration and the most solid judgment of its propriety. Now, what be wanted to know was, first, what were the reasons which induced the Government to'hatrcduee the clause into the Bill; and, secondly,what were the reasons which had since induced them to with draw it? Mr. WALPOLE said he would answer both the ques tions which had been put by the Hun. Gentleman, and that with perfect sincerity. First, the clause was intro duced into the Bill because the Government thought (arid none more strongly than himself) that they ought not to raise by this Bill any other force than that of a defehsive force---a forc e no t to b e use d exce pt to resist foreign a t tac k s. , That ee as the reason why tho clause wets introduced i nto the Bill. He could assure the Com mittee that until t h ey had come to the clause l asttn i g h t , he, for one, had wished to retain it, because ho thought there would be a . great advantage in net calling out the militia for the purpose of suppressing any insurrection or rebellion that might take place; but when the Committee came to the clause a strong opposition was ra i se d to i t , no t only by the Opposition i: side of th e H ouse, b ut b y H oc . Members on the s a r'istetial side, and communications were made to the. Government from all quarters respeeting it. H e could assure the Committee that it was merely out of deference. to what he believed to be the predominant opinion of the Committee dist he had given up, and he would say re luctantly given up, this clause of the Bill. Sir H. VERNEY wished to say that when he sug gested last night that the clause should be omitted he was surprised it should have met with so much approba tion on .both sides of the House. His sole object , originally was to call attention to what be conceived was , an interference with the prerogatives of the Crown. 'Mr. BRIGHT admitted that he had felt very wsrmly on the subject, but, after the explanation which the Right Hon. Gentleman had given, he begged to say that any thing which had fallen from him that could possibly reflect on the honesty or sincerity of the Right Hon Gentleman he most distinctly withdrew. The House divided, when there appeared— For the clause ... ... 61 Against it 151 Mejoeity--egainst the clause —9O On clause 28 being brought up with amendments, Mr M. GIBSON asked if Government were deter mined to adhere:to the exemptions of 42 George III.? If they exempted the students of Oxford and Cambridge, they ought to exempt the students of univetsities which had started up since the passing of that' Ace Why were — Mines watermen to be exempted? Really the exemp tions °tight to be adapted to the present day. He also wished to know. what the Government meant by " a poor man the father of more than one child born in wed lock." The deputy-lieutenants were to decide that point, and it would be useful to them to know what the definitioh of Government was. Mr. E WART considered that Government had given him a pledge on a former occasion that they would con sider the claims of the students of the London University to exemption from service. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not consider himself called on to state what a poor man was. It was impossible to give a definition of the words " poor man" which would apply to every part of the country, because they formed a relative term, and he who was a poor man in one place could not be considered so in another. There must bo very considerable discretion left with the deputy-lieutenantse and he had'great faith that that discretion would be properly exercised. A desultory discussion ensued, after whioh the clause as amended by the Home Secretary was agreed to. The RIGHT HON. GENTLEMAN then brought up three additional clauses—the first prescribing that the quell& cations of officers might be derived from personal as well as from real estate ; the 2d, providing that a sup plemental corps might be raised by voluntary enlistment in tote county to supply the deficiency in another county; and the 3d, extending the time of appeal, and increasing the number of places in which notices might be given. ' These several clauses were agreed to and added to the Bill, as was another brought up by the Attorney- General exereptiog Quakers without property who- re fused to serve from being sent to the common gaols Colonel SIIITHORP and Sir D. L. EVANS, who had notices of clauses upon the paper, • the one relating. to the qualifications and appointments of officere, and the ' other extending to this Act the exemptions contained in the 44th George lIL, c. 54, withdrew them upon the understanding that the Government would consider them Previous to the next stage of the Bill. Mr. HODGES proposed a clause to follow 16, pro viding that in case of any volunteer or substitute being found guilty of desertion he should be sentenced to serve for the same period as if he had originally enlisted therein in any of ,her Majesty's regiments stationed abroad; Mr. BERESFORD did not think the remedy which the Hon. Gentleman had proposed was the best that might be chosen for the evil to which he had re ferred. He did not think it was by any means a desir able principle that a man who had misconducted himself in the militia service should be considered as fit for the regular army. He thought that that would be a slur upon the standing army which he was sure no Hon. Gentleman would wish to throw upon it. Besides, if a man had deserted from the militia in the third or fourth year of his training, it would be hardly worth while to be at the expense of sending him abroad to complete the re maining year of his service. —(Hear, hear.) Under those circumstances, he hoped the Hon. Member would withdraw his amendment. The amendment was immediately negatived without a division. The preamble was then agreed to. The House thereupon resumed, and The CHAIRMAN reported that the Bill had passed through Committee, with amendments. The Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Thursday next, ' NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT BILL. .0n the motion that this Bill be read a second time, Sir W. MOLESWORTH expressed his disappoint ment at the contents of the Bill. He was induced to en tertain a favourable impression of the measure by the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies, On looking - into the Bill he was sorry to say that impression had utterly disaPpeared. 'ln The first instance he objected to the 'Legislative Councils being nominated. It a p pears that the Colony. siae to be divided into two parts. Within the' English part of New Zealand they were to have English laws. In the native • part they were to have native customs and lawS, pro vided they were not repugnant to the laws of humanity. With regard to the English part of New Zealand; a divi sion was to be made of six provinces, each of which was to have all the incidents of complete authority.. The superintendents of the different provinces were to have the ordinary functions of a colonial governor, except that they were . to b e respons ibl e to t h e governor iii chief, and not to the Colonial Office. ItCrespect to the provision of a period of t wo y ears b e i ng given, within. which the assent of the governor might be ! given to a measure, it was his (Sir William Moles worth's) intention to move an amendment in Committee. The measure was of a most complicated character. It would create several governors and se veral legislatures, each of which' might have a code of laws of their own. How, thee, was' it possible for any person to say what was the law of. New Zea land? The code of each province might be different. He had no doubt but that the Parliament of New zea— laud would till the statute hooks with Acts of the great= est wisdom; but it did not follow that these Acts would become law. These Acts might b e re p ea l e d in three ways. First, by a proclamation of the governor in chief; secondly, by instructions from the Colonial Office to the governor; thirdly, by an Act of the General As sembly at any time. And then again, this Act of the Ge neral Aesern bly might be within twoyears repealed. The Bill was well calculated to create the greatest con fusion. In reading through thissßill, when they found a clause containing a- liberal provision, they found another that destroyed such provision' and then they found a third that destroyed the destroyer.—(tanghter.) There were to be two unhappy judges to administer po w er the laws. Surely if they required separate legislaturea they ought to have separate judges. The provinces of New Zealand should not be subordinate legis mine the_ salaries to be fatness-they ought to be made municipalities, to elect their own corporate officers, to deter class was frenay paid to them, and to make bye lay". whose superintendents would be placed in the 1 1 position of pett d tendents, be vyZ e he.spots. When he considered What that which they were to select their superin many taxing Ofacerosnorfinced that they would be like so,' were made subject especially to a to the worat description; unless they: council. He felt convine liens. Ho objected popular control by popular elec.-i laednfdhat such nomination would nominated legislative, y et iu any other Colony,. objected ery strong feeling against work worse in inasmuch as there was there a New Zaa ctmheptaeltsn_swoof. that would di the settlers. it. He also strongly land to the settlers. It was a ao to nd t t h,e o grant of Crown minish the value of the grant in By this Bill the New Zealand first charge upon all the lands of - Y Nesw Zea u l l-1 ' l c a t aie the amount of ss. per acre. A gross injustice wlionulP the be done to the settlers of New Zealand: Ere miistthai upon fn fl' House to protect the colony 'from' the I. 'noo of the New Zealand Company. This eomPany b y influence with the Parliament bad obtained lirge its Consolidated Fund. The 're grants from the p sea Act w ould make them three mortgagees' on the land' of Now Zealand, and by the 74th clause they were t o have the first charge upon the lands. He hop e d h that the House would assist him in stopping one of th e ' o many t • bs that had been perpetrated in that House by books contain the New Zealand Company. The blue Recounts of many public held in New meetings being Zealand. In 1850 an Act was passed to give a consti tution to all the Australian colonies.befre the House a the He took liberty, at th e ti me , of laying ° sketch o f a oonst i tut i ou w hi c h h e thought ought to have been given t o t h em. O n the arr i va l o f the reports of the debate s th at then took place upon t h e subject, it b _ ap pears that n umerous public meetings were h e ld in ow Zealand, the result of which was the sending of a num ber of petitions to that Housee and memorials to the Secretary of State, in favo ur of' some such constitution as he had suggested for Australia. If the principle of this subdivision be carried out, the time would most pro bably come when, instead of six, they ahould , have sixty legislatures, by the natural increase of the population. The address from Nelson suggested that one central le gislature and an executive was quite sufficient for all purposes. What he (Sir William Mol3s worth) would propose, therefore, w 'to omit from the Bill all the clauses which had refe- by ~' o;- , S N, N )0 N SAT 1) A air i rence to provincial councils, and, in the next place, to vest in the-General Assembly the power of, constitutiog municipalities. -He should be sorry, indeed, to eats Now Zniand divided into six provinces, for by its very nature the colony wae•forined tn be a political distant` from all othei - eouetries, she would 'fittate no natural ezienaisi, unleis they create d by the Go,' vernment at home cutting up the islands into several distinct provinceseeech with its distinct legislature. The opinion otthe settlers waa.la conformity, with his own —narneTY,..thatinere: ought to he one united legislature for the whole colony, sirin.he begged to give notice that in Committee.on the Bill he should propqae such amend ments as, in his opinion; - were 'beet • calcalated to carry into effect the reasonable views of the settlers. • , trusted the Horne would not consent to pess tliemeasute in its present shape. Mr. ADDERLEY said he was glad, to have that opportunity of. , :etaeing the sentiments contained in a petition, which he was. too late to present to the :House 'when • the order. of the-day fpr the second reading of this Bill was can t ed on. It was the petition of the Canterbury Association, by no means an unimportant portion of this large group of colonies. The association, in their petition, stated that they had observed with. feelings of deep hatisfaction that a Bill had been introduced to this House. for the purpose of establishing within the colony of New Zealand a coustie tution founded upon principles which would give them duo control over the management of their own affairs. They said, that they had made thernaelVes acquainted with the provisions of this measure. and they were enabled, to assure the Housenwith Confidence, that, as a , whole, and in all its' main features, it seduld be hailed with the greatese - statisfaCtiiinna . " a boon pf inestimable value:"—(Cheers.) 'lt was right ho stioidd stage alto that it was only owing to this debate coining 'on at',art earlier period than was expected that petitions of a simi: lar nature from individuals in London, puthorized to speak the senti men t s o f ot h er port i ons Of -tile group of colonies, had not been presented to the House.—(tlear.) He could assure the House that the question was too far gone. and too ripe, to admit of - the delay proposed by, the Hon. Member for Southwark. It woolen ver i ty well. for that Hon. Baronet, and - other Hon. greatiors n year after year te_propose further delay till they shoulethaee finished' and polished aemeasure exactly-to 'their own minds; but he (Mr. Adderley)evould tell them and the House that it was hazerding• the integrity of. tile empire itself,..thus to play. mith the feelinge of the cola,l nista, Thegreat want ot our colonies was sell-government; and they did not ask that as a boon or a favour. They simply asked, as British subjects, to have' extended to them the rights of-British subjects. It was seven years since that • the House acknowledged that New Zealand was ripe -for 'a constitution. In a great debate which Cock place in 1845, that was amply admitted by all the leading Meriabers of this, House, including the late Sir Robert Peel, LordeJohn Russell, the Honourable Mem ber ,for Southwark himself—in short, by all who took part' in thief debate,. which was brought on by the nate, Charles Buller, au abler advocate, perhaps, than the colonies had ever. since _possessed in that House.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Having briefly :enumerated the' various measures adopted with reference to the government of New Zealand since that 'p er i o d, t h e Hon. Member proceeded to say that, upon the accession . of the present Ministry to power, seeing the position in which the colony was placed, and having a measure handed to him by his predecessor, Earl Grey, which wag , represented as urgent arid absolutely necessary, and only to be illegally withheld, the Right, Hon. Geni tleman the Secretary for the .Colonies had e with a proper sense of duty, eidde.essed himself to , complete the wee-. sure so framed by his predecessor. Accordingly the present Bill bad been prepared, an d th e H ouse was now in that very classical position of having " three coureea", (spent to it; to continue the present Suspension Act; to do nothing at all, arid thus allow the suspended Act of 1846'.t0 come into force next year; or to pass the MCA sure at that moment under consideration. To continue the pre - sent Suspension Act would be to drive the coin pads into a frantic state of irritation; for that would be still to deprive theta of the power .of effecting those im provements' so necessary in a new measureq tien tl y , uponthe beet the line e. t_o ( b H e r, pursued hcar. ;w ° u a Ei ss t ot r Q y l . aard oCapsotnts the opinionshee otn . the e m o b l o e n r is ts for s w ete ° il c t o hyv nce a r r e k e d (;o la tt e ld tho n u o g t ht h the Honourable' read the whole o f t h e d ocu the nte from, which he had e favoured 'the Souse Pith some extractie True, at the meeting held_ at Nelson, in October ' 1850, a . central legislature, composed of tw o houses, both elec tive; and a central executive were declared to be de sirablee bat it was - added, by one of the, speakers, that for a country like New Zealand a form of government which would•confer upou the several districte large and efficient. T o the same effe c t was the powers of dealing with a ll l ocal questions. would be most by th e , co l on i sts at the meeting held expressed-soaptiinsifctooanry in November, 1850, and again at the meeting at Otago, a month or two after that. The constitution proposed by the Hon. Baronet the' Member for So.iithwark was for one colohy only. What'vaas the :real ,difference (with that exception) between the measure of the Hon. Baro net and the Government? The lion, Baronet proposed a central legislature and executive constituted for the' whole colony, but municipal bodies for local purposes.— He (Mr. Adderley) agreed that there was one blot, in the measure-- . -the concurrent jurisdiction of the central add local legislatures. If this could be remedied—as he doubted not that it could be, then the GoVernment mea sure would secure, practically, all the advantages which the lion. Baronet the Member for Southwark proposed to attain. The language of the Hon. Baronet was identical with that of certain articles in leading journals, which. might makes powerful impression on such as did not examine the subject for thomsolves; but the only two New Zealand paperapublisleed in London were in favour of the Bill, and accepted . it. as a great boon— (Hear, hear)—and . tlae opinions,. of the colonists them selves Was of far more value than the essays a? 9philoso hers who, in their grand theories, overlook th e useful •• and the practical.—(Hear, hear.) It might be said that the numbers of the colonists were not considerable—not exceeding 26,000 persons, but they were a body of men as enlightened and intelligent as any that had over gone from England to found Mir best settlements.—(He ar, hear')Thernumber , Coueol4 was not apportioned to the number of persona, but the number of . settlements, separated by the physical, features of the oountry, or ' divided 'by different plans of colonisation. With regard to the debt, it had been recognised by Act of Parliament, and must be paid by the. mother coun trybound to pay it, as it had been caused by the blund e r s or the colonists. The mother country wet in justice ,or the errors of former colonial secretaries, in cir :curnstanees certainly ' e xceedingly diffi . ctilt. The colo nists, however, had . exPreaaed, a, willingness to pay it, and they were the best judges. 'They did not object to dition that they might have an option as: o the price of `"the measure f or liquidating it by land sales, on the con tbg land; and that :discretion was given them•by the Government till. In conclusion, he would read a pas sage from ; a letter written by gentlenian . who ropre seated ihe.colonists in this country,:—" Though object jog to the details - of the 'Bill; Ibelieve it' will be an in calculable advantage, and that it will be a considered as a great boon; whil e , if reje,cted; the colonists, wearied out by hopes deferred, will despair of ever obtaining. benefits so often promised, and the want of yehich they so bit terly feel." •Nr.. V. SMITH said he had expressed his approval of the diligence which had been displayed by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Colonial Secretary. Ho was favourable to giving Liberal constitutions to, the colo nista, but. was adverse to giving ;them imperfect con stitutions. This, unhappily, bad been already done on one or two occasions with very evil effects, His Honourable and 'Learned Friend the . Member fur Southwark had stated good grounds'for, moving that the Bill be 'read a second time that day tbree.months; and ha was of opinion ..that, this course should he pursued. and the consideration of the Bill postponed. It raised Xll tlao must •diffieult questions, federal *and local go vernments, electoral and official Members, and so fenn— el', the questions_ , discussed in the' Australian Govern ment Bill would be raised ripen,. this.' There was the great question, for instance, of the Provincial . councils, and there was the 'question also of the land silos being given up to the colonists, as to, which he, had some serious doubts. - A' similar measure ,in some respects had been prepared •by, the late Secretary for the Co lonies, who, however, had sent it out for consideration in the colony, and ho (Mr. Smith)i submitted that the colonists should have the opportunity of fully consi ,dering ,the :measure. He believed it 'Would' be best to postpone • the Bill. He did not believe that the colonists would be so mad as to be thrown into a state of frantic irritation, by such a - Course, or would be offended by the Bill.being duly considered. The ex ,pressed opinion - of the colony 'had not been all one way, and it undoubtedly was diVided. TO deal with Ake New Zealand Company was a Matter of difficulty, .which had been settled last - sessiob, audit need not have been intro duced into thiS Bill. If this part of the measure were not excluded, great discussion and' would' be caused. , Mr. E. DENISON preferred the amendment of the Bill to its posipoueuient.--(Hear, heir.) He did not be lieve this would be at all impossible. He; however, ap prehended that, as the Bill now stood, it might have the effect of overwhelming the cok:lists with local councils, and its machinery might be too cumbrous 'and its opera tion too complex. It would very much ,facilitate the passing of the Bill if the arrangement of the functions of the subordinate councils .were left to be settled by the Central Legislative Assembly. Mr. J. A. SMITH concurred in the opinion' that it _would be better to leave the settlement-of the - functions of the district councils to the Central Ikiislatiie 'As sombly... He mou ld give his •suppott to the Bill, and he deprecated any-delay in a 'nieasiire ' Wbich:was one of colon vital importance to the colony. With 'reepect to the Zealand p Company, he thought its claims entitled t o high consideration. It h a d b een actuate d b y t h e most ensinter este d motives bein remembered promoting the th a i t a interest e thats t o f o t ra h iny y,' a n d i t should the merit of obtaining those colonies for -,lV7.:F".3PlifEritwan4.ithat while there were many parts of reserve. his htifs which e a Etl ri 12: duipsapproved,' ha thought it better He did noon them. till 'they went into Hoff. Baronet the course to adopt would' be tr S menibe s r ;gr , ee tbe r e ark of the outhairk, that the best R e il nl l; in o i n tte th e e Contrary, he thought abnet°ttehretreSpursopceenedsiotno s pass ider a i t n i o t nh,e thoughpreseu t o te: thesuipoona tti eterosuunrcei 'disappoint the Staffordsbatitr4Pl%7 under y th el o o rs e o; ) r , a t b h l e a t M t h e a m y b o e u r g fhotr not t t o h of the colonists on the subject, He representativetho(uhrt. anticipationsAtl ad.eri tie present measure were to . stitutions would not be given to New Zealand Miedle too late.—(Hear, hear.) It was but just to Sir 0. : 0 Grey ;ty that upon his appointment as governor of the and civil con found it in a state of anarchy fusion, and at war with a powerful native race. In the course of six years,' he had, however, succeeded in brieg. in the colony into a condition of peace and prosperity c to oto st n a y te ile. without a parallel the history of our coloni a l depen dencies.—(Hear, hear.) Any one acquainted with the ! e ~ t.,-- , N e_e_____h_n....etneetes---,___e_eo • :-- • . condition of New z ea t en d se tt etehee t eihet a s Sir ,G e Grey i their celonios, and extracting frem them a ireisehable . o iled stated it, that th e grea t haet tip n which this ceuntry ! tertiary benefit, instead of which the paiieh• of England had to . solve with respect ho NeW Ztaland, was not how, i (eight to be the reultiplicetion DI Intr. race n isi order that they „were to eelonieteit e orao whateextent - self -govern- they might.propreoto her inifitiit ' iithe, heti eth te ett ter merit waatto , be, given ,to the. colonises, but how they I tehded to the rapid o ttopulatieri of -the eolehiso, wohlcf entre it wriswret.'ueP-ed.;;Or cjould hest succeed in the civilization °fob() netiye , rat, . ereeet with btoefienn the m ot h ermeeratey. Tht h i hore thhat washhe ()Whet whibh .Sir•O. GieY ,bdillo 6 gire%t, ll-4 . 1 reacilvd 45 clitaex tit an early esn e d . I ,e h te l e tee . extent succetded. in •effeetien, end if helsresentetivh ie- cteartero of Rhode bland' Wes en s e o n !, 1 Bat et w etitutienthited Wein given to the colony iu 1846, to (Me. nowcontidered not safe to allow th e a chil e s t Otti4 }via di'. R. Peel) did not belittitethat that Object Would have been Act, retailer to, any Joe:O.-nu t e e • 7 t 9 sett a z l. i lo Se, tin et. tthven ees= ottainect to VT grtien iM &I'2 ellt.; as thejetrould still have hentiett tilt it was remitied to .. Er:gland, ! he re to-. se been eteugglieg.fot the - nehstert - w i th the native race. * mtaiiii, , d, perhaps, for tete yeere h 7 WI 411.0 afgAM - eileS 'Of tile',•lloA. iiirOiiet the Member for -that' three years were rots-posed 'bet weetd the, ~.so and experience So uthwetek 'Wenttio 'elattw the representative ittetitutious and clecisivneio -their. local matters and the 'keit - Windt: t What*was was the system under which they lived. 'What te were not Oltogether an, unnatx.ed been tonn iltfantcelorly, as to whether their Acts :were to take effect/ or doh* rat; . inteudedeto.b e a . 1 ' nnteonal repmentation - often dwindled be their feelings they were to pass Acts on stibjeueltds provedethitt in- such cites; into a merely kcal represent - Abu of that particular which they understoodenot- imperial etibj4ti,' lt h ue titian' locality which happened to be tii`Eide the seat of Govern.. al.an Act relating to the Great Westerit Reilitaho 'Mid • ment, and the Representative ASsehlhlY ultimately Caine they were to be remitted to the other end ;of the world to be composed of- persons tvhoh3 'occupation or profess - 'and h‘ept in an office, and censidered or not honsiderod tte t sign enabled them •to reside' near, the • spot- heels,' the the' might he—(Hear, hear)--for tivo years e— , Assembly:wet held, anilthe more distent • Mterests of the (Hear, hear.) Yet that was .the syAtein' till& 'was - colony %Tete : consequently' 'neglented or :: unrepresented. adopted to wal!cl . s. o.ll' colonies.. Tee oltf •ichte of tecolony' ' Moho present poittion of No w Zeeland it appeared ab ' ttas that it was in th e nat u r e o f a m un i c i p a l i ty or a nor . selutely e ssent i a l. to have • sepatath local councils,' arid."poratiOnt he . ' this Country corporations were placed the vindieetion of this Bill was, that it proceeded upon uuder the :control of the 18w of the land, *tit they bed' lake prieciplatof. Occo mmo d at i on . It accommodated it- the liberty of. local regulation. The bye-lens of 'the self to the, force- of the circumstances which it found tech* corporation of Liverpool,. or any other Omit, town, were istirlg in New- Ztalandee•Heschesidehedethat they were net sent to the Home Secretary to be coesidered for two bound to attend to thedeidition'and circunotaneits of yeithetto.(lheate hear.) N ee• these munittipelities, as • tee colony for which' theertrere' legislatiegrather than they existed in the ancient times, ware; yell • defined; , attennpt to•earry ,out any'speettlative notions of *Goyerpe *they were sobject to .thetgeneral -restraint. of the laws • went Wfileh they might wiali in'intrahuce, • into the 'en-• of''.pegland, but he every.,. other, respect they ,ttere 7 • They- As 'an tnstlince tothihillut - Might :retereto when almost tehstildtety awl entirely free.-h(tlear, hear. was p ening; tit .. the Cape of Gocd Hope. • .• So longas. that . That degenerate. and- degrading - recta of roe colon y .Watt solely : e managed , . by . h. Governer they • taming the ' substance,; ouch . still: more 'the rif heard - the ' • / I ntetteg oof the , • chofttcting , interests' of c•nle of colonial petrcmage, was t. tetelly nektiown thifferent narttes r e es h soots however, as it wits' during the old colonist system. The old tleniatt : pat propoeeelao confer the 'got erntiierti'of . the colony upon sassed the soil ; they administered their ! oen phitce; a neenesentative • assembly; the tiaateinodistriet make() they bad to defend ;their own frontiers; they'were the the Government to remove the seat of legislature from bearers of their owe charges, the electors' cif -theirtown Gape I Pown t which wee 'the extreme Min of the western officers and the e makers of . their own. laks.-e(llcare histriot, toil -nm ee•centtal'hpot, or` to diiide the whole •• ' heir.) *•Now they ,had .eeherst.d. in the .laht 70 years • colones into ;two separate distriChs, ast it was 'im.Psslible. 'every'one.of 'these Salutary principles.•-•-(Heen) . 'We that thie 'Members froth' the' eititera district could afford retained the fee-simple of tee colimial land.; -The •eole to spend -half tho year ito a _place so far distant from their nists were not fit In oue, supgtior judgment .to mauage owo residence", - Thore.could be • no. doubt that there their Otto' affairs, and henpe those magnificeot sums ap must he tie .Netw .Zealand-n central legisleture for the ' 'peered in the estimates, because we provided that they whole of the colony,•'aed 'it.'wes * . egutsily' clear to his wore-not to beer their, own - expenses. Inetdad of allow mind that eitich legislature' should exercise exclusive ju• tug them to consider the .measures which they thought riediction over- the cottncils• in • the *separate provinces. to be best calculated to adopt in reference to the aOori- :would the existence of the getter's! jurisdiction they .ginal inhabitants, we said, t " Oh, that- is a matter' far the : would I lave *hontlicting system's' ' u f dett este ehpostage, of Imprint Paeliatteset.O.,And-u - frfiniertr :fitting in Down curgene y, et real property, and other matters. Thant' ing-etreet must deterraine how-the low:lilies between the : were q uhstione upon which' he thought there - cot:lld' bh libohittinia and the colonists are to be settled:--(hear, no don btus*to the prop r i ety of their - being. reserved for ' hear, and laughter.) The idea of allowing them to ,elect the ' dah'ihitl of :the "get:chit or &tarsi assembly. their own officers! • That w o uld b e extremely eeholu- The geographical position of the oolong thendeted• 'tionary. 'lf it would not-destroy. theroyal supreintiCy, it ahael h atetytnecessery -to dividetit into provinces, each it would, et all events,, b 3 a dismemberment of the with . its :separate:council. 1n addition to this there 'empire. - 'As "to allowing th em t o matte their own, In - Was . entirely - wantingetthat ' ceistre to which and laws the notion is so nreadtul, es opposed to fromewhichohe different interests bf ' the country could alt ideas of night and• truth, that no 'person could be said to radiate and emanate, and there was also went- for a moment gravely think... of ' preposilag° ing thot common bond of theitin which would be required such a thingeh o (flean, hoar.). They had thee reversed it all : interests were to be beritralised in '. ono. general the five greet principles of the ancient systetia of colt:- • legislature . for the whole island. At , the same time he nizetioe, and they had reversed them because they ' hopethe tiler, in the course of events.,' all these settlements looked upon their colonies as stakes.--(Hear, hear.) If wouLut be Merged lino onset and that New Zealand would they locked upon them us municipalities founded 'in • the event wally forma -single. and- enn fedorate Society.- He shadow and circle of their own imperial power; if they was ghettetherefere, to see that h er Mejesty ' s•Govern- only i mpose d on them necessary restraints and left Punt .had inserted a. proviso 'teethe Bill, leaving to the them free in'every other respect, then they would not general, tesseliihly not merely the 'eittliesive jurisdiction only have saved countless millions to the Exchequer of liver certein provinces, bite also a concurrent jurisdiction this' country, but they would have produced a system over inn. other questions uptie which thepeovindial °din- whiCh would have been more worthy of theatelves, be oils uptight legislate.' Ho ' had many eteht objecti ons t o t h e cause no on e co uld re ad the history of the greet Ameri, provihioes, of ~the Billotiore eshecially to: those • • - revolution - thou , sehiug • that your ,colonies then ~ --- thoserelattcg cap wi e< Co tho , ,:constitupotref• tne tipper chamber of the genetal 'reared Men of such u mental stature and power as •en- asseneoly, the constitution of - thelocel councils, and he: tirely transcended those whom the colonies of the pre might also Say to 'the • power: which it was proposed •to seta day produced.—(Hear, . hear.) He would feati. to I confer upon the _general esseenblY, nehmertly tor theap-• the House a portion of . tne charter to Rhode Ishind, i peeprtotiop e of the land revenue, but also•with respect' to which would show. ehat what he had stated was not ex- . the management of the watt° . -lends of the colony: He angerefedebuothe plain and truth. The charter would, however, reserve • any remnrke he might have to' created the colonists of that island into-a•body‘coeporete make;upou these points, until the Hewitt Went 'hie Com- • 'and Politici , it ,gave them a body , of 7assistants and mitten: on the Bill.' With respeetto - xiie ge n9rs l outl i ne tree mete in :Waticipation •of the inhabitants 'becoln- ' of the. ;Bill, so fat as he could judge, • it • appeared to be ing:nureeroan t it gave. them the power' of electing well veenehy thehianction of th e House.. -, their own officers sad. representatives. - The .system Mrt .GLADSTONE said. that it was before all thinks which our ancestors thus founded two centuries • ago . important ehet in order, to arrive i t a j u s t opinion onthet hid borne - :the tetrein. of ,the American revolution; t dcmila of thihsubject • the Reuse -*should Consider its and at, . the..preaent - memente in every ' state - Of 4tepart.l position. , Ho - considered that the p resent Tar-. ' that wonderful country, it , was .the ;form and model of liameitt ought not to be prolonged' by :diactissions on the government 'frem one., a pd of it to . the other.' For a detail„ o f te mp, forgiving a• COnstitinitin to New Z ea la n d. colonY to elect i tsown Government now, ehat would be If th at. he as se hh eh u s etion before theta was in its first aspect' shocking indeed. But this power was, conceded -to Rhode thisnetohether they weret each following his own scheme Island in .1662, when be would,not say the warmth, but for a coloniat o oestitutieu, to • urge ' on the House the the fever of royalty was et.ite height in this country,— adoetin e of t h at s e hemet or •to be content to-view * the (Heet.; heer.) : Yet is was at that period that they wore 'plan of ehe.Governmenh as a whole, and looking at it in :desihed to "elecit their own GovernMent: They were that light to except it, or -taking the'Other course to re• allowed-to make their own laws, subject to no other re ject in That was th e alternative before them. If they straint except that, as far as circumstances would admit, wished for 'an ...opportunity of discuSsi ng the Bill as they Were not ,to „be contrary .to the _Jews of England. practical me n , w ith a practical object in view, they'must They could iippeint t eheirtown officers, constitute their on the, main .content ohtenselves With adopting such own courts of Justice, ; embody their own forces for their Means as would enable them to' gain that more kapott own' defence, - and appoint their .own commanders over taut othect. He would then judgeOf thetßill ase whole, those' forces. They were the o w ners of th e i r own so il , and.ata si ng th e "main points • in- *which he thought it a. and the bearers of .their o wn c h arg es.—(Hear, hear.) He beneficial reeaeure, and an advance on previous• colOnial might be asked what security there was for the good be tlegi•iihWioneif he adveited:to provisions which he cheUght havithir of tho colonists in, this case.--e(Heart) It was, he faulty, ,he 'would refrain from urging his objections,' un- could not say the most perfect, but it was as perfect as any less in any case these provisions 'should appear to be so which had been recently invented, for in case of the co• dangentweatto make it,l on the whole, advisable that the lonists invading any prince or power in alliance with the definitive consideration of the Bill' should be post- Crown of England, they were to make satisfaction to the ported for another Year.• He could not pass by an Crown, "or put out of our allegiance and protection."— odeasiom of: this kind,' when they were dealing with (Hear.) Two hundred years produced great changes the question of giving a constitution to a remote colony, in the circumstances of mankind, and though he did not withouth recalling attention to a false position in which say that in every particular this system ought to be therstlod with r egar d to .the Government of that class' imitated, yet when. he, regarded the'ACtS'which had b een of cam tee. He -was Ti * ". not aware that any ,British' celony, peesed of late years for the colonies, the millions Which had aryived at a just, and what he. would call a'nohmat, had been spent and the discontent which had arisen. and relatiozObetween the colony and. the' :mother country. reflected that 200 yea rs ago a system had been concei ve d By . a normal, relati on he did not mean a• relation 'Minded in which the spirit and Ohatacterittics of the ' mother on the, speculations of Philosophers and political eeone- country was maintained, they could not draw the con mists slime, but on that relation the leadipthfeetfires of trust without bringing a blush •on their faces.--clear.) which. in old times sehsisted for' the Perposes. of colonial, He woeld mow proceed to discuss the 'Bill, which he government, and never- attained 'in a. greater degree .would do. in a spirit of fairness. Ho looked upoa the than between this country andt heh North American Bill_ as upon the whole creditable 'to her Majesty's Go colonies. It wit's - flew "th n it. - • had its vernment—(Hear, heisr)—not because it went back to ouget. 4.uat.at . colony L . . . life in an ex • ecutive. govern:me t d•• ' was to 'be founded the ancient system of Rhode Island, bat becainte it on Parliamentary le 'l' ' . a l ae Atofthepeople • dic tea a real intention • -hts atton.ano the fume. at home, and under that system it Was expected that a ' and hetututts he thought it tenceded•O largermeasure of population was to grow,. sad tb .. be trainedlo'freedinhe t frehhoinehen was given •to any of their colonies, if he arid totwhicht•in proceseof tinie,- a• Modicum of' f ree Ca- - .elOccepted one.. Thia eels the dietinetivni ',Petit 'of the Bill. stitutiOne was' to beegrientern 'This. - wan a 'true,. - tutirlie' 't-n(Htter, bear.) He wasedrrehto 134 j, die could not agree meant it . to be an unexaegcrated h a punt of. the Manner eviehnis Hen., - Friend the Member for Southwark, with in which moderh esee e r ee h , s ' 1 - A d. There was whom ha , generallyeonettiried cinthese gnestiOns, when a difference bet were feu e t too • the between the poliey Of -colonial, .government he said that the Bill recognised much principle of and thett l °f en Other department ' ' they looked to t the ' t o nance or it in the handeof the central legtelature to determine , f foreign pod - - •- "ethnent._ of o c y In the ' itv rement •at : home, the amount of authority to be greed to the local legisla it was hfohnd• that . 0 ; e - 1 there were tures... He (MreGladstotie) regarded the re - cognition of 11 the e who 0.- certain leading principles folk:vied it • and on which' lcmatsettlements es tone -- of the' gteateet merits of the there was a general -coecurrence of P p ' ini°n' No one Bill.—(Heart heart) One of thechaniateristics of their desired that there -thould be an V' . e ss ential 9 alteration in reeenthegielation was. that it was, in an eminent degree, the foreign Policy Of this c't ' • which• had been 'arbitritiy.—(llear, hear.) We drew the line 'for our adopted for a series of rho 'Butouttry b .. ' quirede helyes e insteed'of following the line-that nature and ii..l- ' ,w at was ,re to be impressed • -! on the . • minds • •• . rt . hi ; p6qpie of thi s" ces;ity drew fortdn.—Olean hear.). •Itives a .tniSta'ae country was, that in the a `°ht e t - ' 1, n (he to suppose :that ierequitted•lo,ooo tor 20,000 persons to meant free end r' ' • oendation o to co o y •, • P anted, not con' u*oretd,eoloniee, end suite .gonoi:.l,li9,4l,o9litiaul society. • •Th'att tette .11 . great mistake us were histurbeff by afteh thit e;er ' e • differ'- '.. - -ii. vulgar..error.:-and no nbette're—Olieer, 'hear.) A a arising from ..., ~, . , cute of race)—that in fouudin ;9 .4h colonies, they had: ' political society was formedinYacerninoti epprontmatiOnt proceeded on principles fittida g nientishy'hnengeo(fleer, .common-pursuits, corentisneetatiohs iti ti . great degree' hear)—and that, - . while _Acts, of Parliateent had heeu common ideas is a great degree; co:hit:on indiietry e end passed to gives them :teen- free ehiiititutioni, 'there hid ' 'common ilac.. . These censtitntedhe social Wilds; if he been no recognitiOn of right prin ' Ales, but Modifications might so speak.--([leaf; Itteer.) -- The Right 1 - 16 ii., Gen of and restraints on wroph , _(Rar Iti Or) e The right tlemen departed from weird • tradition by granting a principle was tlittOhliiek!tvas. tide - pi ' d - 6 our ancestors Jargettfere of pOWer,tqloplities.- 7 -(Hesr, hear.) Their 200 years .e go, wh to 'o7he4"they fedi:Ueda cOloni did not - forefatloiree in ;:,10id c iiiii*.sr, gr4Ated large powets to come with an estiinitO ee t he h h ei ii .. i iir as k,. for ' 80034 'hatell.hittliee - hf itheehlectoituee these bodies so constituted thonsands of pounds a piii r e c h e t,' 9 - . le epee, - anda chief' ''hietifitinhtl'a great' power •of- expansion, as the acorn justice, and a col ;to ett c!rl ° . " souttetery It . v d in apparatus of. contained. the germ of, the .oake- I (Cheers.) `And officers.—(tlear, hear, . • They' ' oolt il ecteci. a body of, free When ••' -they ! coestdered 'how well that system men who were ready to found ot ot• to, .tvorked'hn, North America, and that, -the. American a free state ahalog our own, and which enjoying .6titeeeedom,'shottld peett' 'Union With `dependent on the 'local principle, pagate our raceehr 1 'distant'agetOlit institutions, and our. as distinct from the central principle, this recognition of religion, in : '. hene e ' -(heav e - •Itear4 t'titetill cenimunities which were to have a substantive-ex- • It was not' on their hone' • - isitehete , ... .~ • instit tiou .- th4 Lhoy• , . u , loaned . :istenue of their own, , whilst:•they were to be united for for support. Then cense ' s - t- ' -•' • . l' consular w e e thet t ice certain purposea f wag one of the It .undamental merits o , advanced withtipidity, con, sid • ating the circumstances . ' the 80, and the. point in which it possessed a keel actl of the times, little b. d be" than , MirAculous,. and the tense- vantage 'over previous measure in colonialtlegthlithoneo- 1 cieepoete ep ios e h , , een thatth - -le cothetry 'never. heard of, :(Hear, •Intars) With regard to a:, enactment 9, lawb, any chargee being; made fox - their au - pport, but oil the tthe Right' Hone Gentlemee had :,littredeeetl ,the end . of. oontrify, they were ready to, assiet • this country is her Able- wedge,,but he MuSreonfess it was the vary thin end foreign warn and:instead 'Of first time,. ' re giments and'service nom-' 'of,it;'Thiscitight•H9n. Gentliman, for .the panies being sentot- tot perfe ir h e , du t ie s of elicit did hbiregtilid ' . Meestiree'phatied nt.thiegojemy . to be sent and to preserve the poten t . a e o :, 't , t . t ; ' ) 6 f , her e.i AM 'that - was ''aeCessarjr - ii4ta to 'aiibmiP,them , to . their 'freedom!''that • thby noitt was their esthela e ta .n ?. , • ' f New Zealand • Audit would depend upon 13n lY did'ilot asts. , this the Govenor 0 . ._ . country to find them men and dem : ' - • • '` keep' hint whether the ColoOtal Goyhretmenten Downing-street the peace for then:Whit they held entt nempopme to . , . know anything of thene—(Hear, hear.) Another "2 4 as h knees= that was :.to she intruded on thetn. her little eteetds ' -s ' ,and ' Merit oflhe Bill was That, hellight HoniGenelentan had declared thOt 'they were dapaiele o eet h ec ,ILig Ati n armies,', Ives. the cthirage' hte ehront overboard another :mbherp, super - - Departing from that-KinciPie we.,h ad - 4 1 In ' 'n ento stition—that I,o'w atty, 'the supposedneoestittftif.mph our colonial system a- princihle lef-nolse ai mip . ant efeeble- Aartiiiiithe influence of the tetieithn by infitaing a large ness and brought on ourseliee teherPmetv. . a tenneeembers into the Legislstive while by w4hholditig-frohe them : the nuclei:".,expeß!es,, , . 1111Tz iL, e ._ ~;hell .hehr.): Otte -rijeieed that" the, Right freedom, we had _deprived theM, ( 4 tiho Ileat tt du p c eliti e c n al UQ4 1 0 t Hon. 'Gentleman delivered :them; from the ,necessity theehliotiki -held out. •to Mir n o e ' tr i " CW 6 ii 'to . e emigrate: 'of lotehiug•uP Crown influence, which could. 'ho. er Englishmen were not desirous i s e , -- emigrating to a , Ottier,purpose that- he cduld tote except 'to create discos- . _ on. , COuntty which was ruled by , n a h ci wer which; however, tent mad- .dissatietactier e he(Cheets) 'Thej.hight •I'l• A 1 .44,. Was neteatdespotisin. --(Hear.) s e e h. • han over a, system as Gentleman again took a step in,ild t atthe W. • ding..e con roger ed Englishmen as. monstrou s .i .. cald' irrational; to the colonists ' - Object to eee"in t X t ea rieti"k io tli t at great and t e consequence veils .that we could not * 1' er the lande- t (Hear.). : ue her, matter rior of ss in thiecountry • to emigrate- totter colonies.-- s.— inipertanee, without which he '.Woold.not the hi get a supe- tree •ov _ , (Heart hear.) They. had been rolttetant to. leave the' coneentto the details of the, it he prepared to welialire'.ll! 'Meat) The free shores of England to incur' 'tint ---' only' the Ordinary .of ower of alteratida allowed by the B this', Bill to hazards of .tiolheitetien, the ceetain de to •• • , f R i ght flon.Gencleman did not pretend ;by fa ' t uch ne . o . P tvataoa o -, „ rem the Ph° ' tiei lasheed Of 6 • - - their Political - litier • , • .orey teh.. theiopoli- except - any Political enectrrient f , H e thee the colo tical liberties ' ' from England, file; 'w e nt forth to 'New '1 th , 0 e colonial legislature.--(Suer.) their '..lloAds hn the Zettlattd or- • Neth ni t he Wales to. :be deprived of them; `hitil t legitlaturit full power to lay' _ ~ , t t lid testier toe la*s sad hehhape; titter alaspe of twenty , ete thirty years, a : work of the Imperial•Parlieinenha ~ boy imposing portion of these- i Wince' . rights !wetee i geveu to thene t , spassed b r it in anytintintier shitY, pied , ho wd be •trabsmitted accompanied by all the 'magniloquent . I tanguahet who,* -,thhcondition that the alt eretib Ot t h f ' s ta te n,-.(hietir hear.) was used when they Werct . giaithed by' P - 41.11 4Pleht-r7and. , beihthefere':theY. were fitiallY e , rate otethe Bill, and then they had to heal; the eargootnow so - great, wet.— he common about ' These Went- the ' •ts • -e for one, these : meri • training them :and fitting 'theln._to receive a free - tonsil- On .the ground a ~ he might althea say hit ido tution.-o(Hear, hear.) . fa So e fethtt, 14 being the case, moved by his admiration-st . t in its purity , Was dis h 1 C " ' • every year and • - every' mont n tvili h +v. 1 ''' toe' were kept littry'of the us hi-colonial •sys est , . , 1 of his own peculiar .views, and to under the despotic power oh h an recutive or en.. 4 see ed at posed to sink Laude d t : the passing of - the _Billt—(Hear, home, tendered there less tit I offered t h ese, institutions,. and lead's hellinChan (I' ' rd ; td thi .e a t t it s eh, the measure, when too late they ,Wer.° t o , . !._ theses their intro , hear Nowh hhitha histregt HOh. ri e epd. the, Member for duction, was attended . wit amiculty and ember, hesooneurred• Wail ~ `cliffteuittt . W44..84 . 150. from the rassment, and consecittencez ensued Which would Southwark' that g.r,f,ff, . te, ar 12Sart) It would create, we' had followed • 'hictietion.- - e e, , , , L. . h , have been avoided if.. ..,, • what he was concurrent kin : niceigity and ,hlt .9) o Jehllenable per not ashamed ..to -call the 'rumens of our ancestors in his opinion, an on and kept in the .path which they struck out* and • ' ' • There '' Was to be the, central. (Hear • hear.)* . ~, : . , e: England: invested', who plexity.--. . ' char i ot • togislaturg,, , ,ateth the municipal with fr.. ee e ..legislittureethe be 4 sent their people out from thet for' the , it.,,,,,d by . Parliothent. t Ile 'would Bug-. dons, instead of training ,reception of free legihloturch lc ! the' ' required ecfP e R ig ht jinn. Gentleman that these municipal institutions. 1 1. 10 training. Y .. 17 48 W hat the e5t:40.4110 — held h swallowed op in the Oistriet legit had - before they-left' England, with the'•fcelin • go f le e• latureerthou e . L their' -8 ' le gis latures - on'thern.° et British eitizennfreeleup. carry their lature.-h(Heart easeret .The district legislature would freedom with. them ld as they would their a gricalturalino plenty •tottlte , *ha , . edits of from strumenthe aisLi t that was the secret of oelential success,. .oely have m• manage the a 1,200 or .1,500 4,000: lie thought unnecessary it lie had quid he did not rest his opiolOi on th e spe . cu i a. r a no , . te .,0,900 or .. be legislatures tion fhe h ad economists,' hut on fa c e s T he , thhhOteet e rehhoe s se , ,separate ,:, for this pur °P 1 eseP en - a • he Co 4 ".. ' - ' 7--, 'll was. impossible that the three legislatures could system ethi e h a m id gain on t it towns was the pose, ----,„ without cetiflition. e t e ° system on which. the colonizetiOn of NorthAreerica Was! wOilA u tog'U"er W • • 0 confessed that arisdietion ' anhnlintte , the Oyst e ih which• Met Burke etudied, end 'thin e ceecurront -.1 . _ was -in his allied examine d d'frorn the top te the ' Woot „„ ,an comptehende' .bottom, aau . o f apprehension and. alarm, for it 'meant in the and wnic he deSeribed'i c t .h his Speech on American taxa- lOng run conflicting jurisdiction. He would put his ob • ticin t when he warned Parliament against the cense- jaction in the form of this dilemma—if the district legiss quences of establishing an administrative power over lature were fit to deal with subjects, why not let them n, t , 0)9 I d 5 e Company the mita of 268,000/. ' __________-___ responded exattly with BAN Bill, which-tit So far it m ade a charge, 4 m ° Vr f w e s c t 3 g ri a ' a gr at fi ' r:scatrste.nh.oeitatltetgtoot4°itt a/It:l6i .znivcrliilffabtrethirtheirci el resent , claim on N ew Z ea l an d was, first, s tela ex iseriendly; by the propertied' of iffe pro:earls Lop olgthurereth e sal e e ;. Inf. lira whitithstiOlildrben,Pca ten' to erni r ' il what was- that proaoi4Atc? Here retie rhe" opi".nion of And iEngliTh , law , 'pincers' of the Crown in tese,......si n aehediereneto your Lnedshipe commands we have eon . ' suiered thecasa submitted to us e and are of opinion that, regard being had to the Abt of Parliament and said in structions, no definite proportion of proceeds of future , land sales in New Zealand is to be regarded as ap prepriated to the purpose of e m i gr a t i on, and th at-- the Crown has power from tine • to time to . fix , and alter that proportion by instructions ' previously to the extinguishment of the debt to the coreptiny." So that. first they were to deduct the charges cf.surveys; sect idly, so much' of the proceeds of the heed stileli to isetaiiiteo'Ata*gration as the Crown . Shiciuld thick h 4 and, thirdly, they were to pay over the rekilatte, to. the extent 0t.268,0001a1t0 the New Zealand Company. Bate his Bal rintde a, first charge to the coin- Party-ef ss. en acre, so that trey ware entirely altering the pc , s4;ii . ,-,1 the convert. Now,ethis was a matter of • the extremest delicacy. They we re going very near the old gr . onnd of calepial,. dispute, nod "revolution. This gnes:lonOf the t*4 L, PrP"" celestial land sales was aft e r : all. only another form of the qiieseipti 'OP colonial taxa -tion. , • Siteee Sande tleri red 'theft itsfuti x item their gra- HalhiettptexTmat.:e ( o, te e m& that were cultivated. caeareuni try in tea .celourtepresitlint from point to ei teia aergave value toth,eltind., 10"ellif d'ofthen ask them Id' make the PoSitibta of theageii. 46.1 and Company . tvorae, , lafttje e e_auid .alteyahaelaiek: richt me make it better 'tian it now is. ThereeriPtollethigaiitisiti a question of 4.lieogretitKillaaey leetvieen'' Great . Britain and Ne w z., a l ai;i a , lttA ii 4 t t ky, varied ,thesipesiti on o f t h e N ew Zeitiatiedorapenyeleihestun caauldnotbe a consenting party'to tll6:pvaingbf, this ,Bill during the present ses sion of Parliertiela' : _ ...... - ea ' • Sir J.7 - ITARTNGTOFT . suii, when the Right lion. Gsntlermin aimed that the manner in which the settle 'ents in AM - f - riea,were formed, ought to be the model of all present colonis-tion be went turther than he was eespijsed to a _ ___l.6 ._. , , man 1 t i,i g t ree r vrit ; h him. The Right Hon . Gentle (''s --be. oia the very peculiar circumstances in cl2hsiaihof-twheilsieahetzleo;iies eWefroerm'leodir and above very insignificant- wer e mustlear. in mind -olonie then Form ed . ' in rall'parts of the worlden°n" ho think the Right Hoe which t o c f ul t i h a e r p th o A rtion of the empire our ab c . e f ve th a e ll p , In a question of this kind, they es extent of their colonies in their relations with '• and the effect which that had manner in which those co eV I to which their commer•lereign :countries. Neither did Gentleman regarded the extent head been extended, nor the onies bad been formed by the outpouring of their convict leilhese topics in conseal a ar c r ati on. Be only adverted Gentlemnn .having dw e l t , but the Right Hon. Gentlem an's of the Right Honourable at such a length; 4 B Peoch was nether au essay oda he general principle of Co n low t 1 onisiiitien th an on t h e immediate der considera tion, which- had been made di v id e d The question themselves into .two classes---one, that at 'Pik Deli. fa the session they ought not t o proceed anal; wit h - s - l i t measure; and another class.-of objections. was to ue the provisions of the measure. With regard to the first Objection, he considered that the measure was such a ODD as caght to be immediately proceeded with, and be 'iliould endeavour to carry it this session. There was one point which had not been noticed except by th e Ri ght Hot. -4 ; Gentleman (Mr e Glatistene)—that he had intro dt6B-inte the Bill large powers for the new legislature, when constituted,, to alter.and remould their institutions in Such a manner as their own experience might dictate. NY ben'Hen: Gentlemen said this Bill was oteetionable, liftliult say,he thought they had not paid sufficient ate tenrioa to. the peculiarities of New Zealand' in many re ipects, .Ii had hesn suggested that he should postpo ne t 6 6=Tisori% Now, it so happened that; with regard to "ICe, Z , a!anil there were more • opportunities of ascer teining•the feelings of the colonists . : than existed with =fegare tri any other colisey. There .were the New Zealand' Company, the .Canterbury Association, and the Otago Association, all interested in thewelfare of the colony; - and it so happened that_ at this moment there are in England a nu m be r Of gentlemen ordinarily resident in the daily., The Hon. Baronet, the Member for South wark,-Said the Bill was entirely opposed .to the interests - and feelings of the Wellingtou , colonists. He (Sir J. Pakington) said they had expressed no dissent to the Bill; and the gentlemen who disapproved of Sir Charles Grey's ordinances, end who were in London, approved of the pill. The lion. Baronet objected to the division into provinces and provincial legislatures, but in the same breath he said their acts would be null and void. He alwaye listened with great respect to the opinions of the Hen. Baronet on colonial affairs, and therefore it was with some surprise he fourd him ,toeing sight of the respect due to . the colonists , and using te rms o f r i d i cule towards them . The colony of New Zealand was nut founded round a nucleus of convicts, bat the colonists .were of a most respectable class, men of property and education, accustomed to_ the freedom and the , institutions of this country.—(Hear, hear.) You had not only Europeans, but a large native popu lation gradually taking their places side by side with the Europeans, and gradually becoming equally fitted for self-government. As to the claim in reterence to the New Zealand Company, he had introduced it on the principle of justice, and feeling that he would have encountered a well-grounded objection if he had, in giving the colony a constitution, placed that company inn worse position than they , at present good. Nor did he think he had given them undnekliantages, lass - Mita as - he had had representations from gentlemen connected with that company that he had not done suffi cient for them. He believed, too, he was correct in say iog that the claims of the company did not rest entirety on the Act of 1647, but a subsequent arrangement, by which they were to have one-fourth of the value of the land, and on the principle that the land • was worth 14 an acre, he had introduced the clause giving them sa. an acre. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) complained of the period of two years which the colonists had to wait before the Acts of the local legislature .capie into operation, in consequence of the requitenient of ,t4e, consent of, lbw Crown t o be given—but power ' Weald be taken to , send out in structions to the governor to transmit only for the as sent of the Government at home such measures as wer e of a general rather than a local character. With regard to constitution, one es the Ri g h t Htermed these had t the . G t e h n i t r l d "grade" anem(r in Gladstone) the in stitutions, all he (Sir J. Pakington) had done was t o reserve the power that already existed; he made no new enactment as to the municipal institutions, but merely reserved to the goveraing powers that authority to eau municipal-institutions in.o existence which . had already been conceded—and though these institutions would for : foie ilie - prenent be subservient to the local legislature, theymight aeticipate the day When the colony would h ave ,. so pecgresSed - that such an arrangniumit ml ht be no longer necessary. With regard to the g the 1 - i • • po li cy ,oggeted „e ma king ..egis attve cow l ii th a t involved a point elective, of consid c erable ' pertance; and be was bound t o • upon e , that . a subject , he aiffareil bot hs that his Right Hon. Friend the -.ember for Oxford that 'b itf and' alSe from , he, Eon . 13 s ' tp sli Univer "oat.hdiiik. lie 'believed there was finutri in the hiitoryof our celoni e .klemler for no precedent to be them her. - pis Right Ilian. Friend " °f tin .elective u pp er girpii his prent.,:ent fro m the IT - ' ' "id ' that 11Q' would _a u l E e !gton ) would rather d raw Sues. States. Ele,(Sir J. -Britarre--(Sear, hear,) lia is Piededent from Great the ntothercoantry L o that _ preferre4_, 'tha .example of thou ht that that would [ thiarnited States; and he only hero , btit' in t he ,b,. 1 : „2._ b w -16 _1 1 general teelibg not as far as he wee awar ' l anieve '.rin complaint existed, the upper. chambe e, of - the nominee character of It had bean attempt edl' of . any one of our, ealonies. electiie w en s , he VAs aware , pi infroctuce an - rr" Ohattlb ' k' ''' "of Good cr at the Cape Hope, but the mode in which it was to be cqnstituted had - beco created m uc h a l arm , an b ° un popular that h e - beli e v ed that it would be necessary to change it in deference theeiriahes of the colonists. And it was wllknow t n o that had two chambers both elected; it e most difficult to make pro vision so as to give - w as n r its fall value in the war cham ber e thedesirableness general government . Looking at the 0f ' m aking the colony a-rifleettonorthe mother country, and that the upper chamber should be a practical check upon the proceedings of the lower chamber; looking also at the fact that there was no precedent for an elec tive upper chamber, w hile the nominal upper chamber had worked we ll, he was nos disposed to make any change in that respect. It was for the House to say whether it would consider this Bill in a spirit of conces sion, and with a desire to give the colony the benefit of the constitution it demanded, or whether they should outer into a contention upon every mino r d eta il , and so render the pass i n g of this measure impossibl e d ur i ng t h e present session, and entail upon th e G overnment the n • lieoesaii of intro d u cing . a Suspension Act. 'Sirl. GRAHAM said he was not disposed to offer any op position to the second readi ng o f the Bill. He would be prepared to consider its details in Committee, with a v ie w to ac commodat e , if possible, in the coarse of the present session, any differences to which they might g i v e rise. Bat he should say that be entirely agreed with hi s Bight Hon. Friend the Member for the Unaver ait, o f Oxford in wishing to preseries the arrangement which at present existed between the Crown and the New Zealand Company. He thought that - the clauses -iftheßill upon that subject contained a denentarefrom :hal-arrangement very much in favour of the company. He understood his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for the Colonies to have stated that the Ministers of the Crown had entered since the year 1847 intosomet written engagement which varied the arrangements with th e company as 'they had been settled by statute in that year; • and his Right Hon. Friend had spoken of that en gagement as a document which he had himself seen. Now ho thought it was absolutely necessary that that document should bo produced, before they came to con sider in Committee the clauses in question • 9 and h e wished to know whether his Right Hon. F • , nena would have any objection to lay it before the House? Mr. MANGLES said he hoped the Hou se 1 you d hear . him for one moment on the subject of the attack which had been made on the New Zealand Com ID e the arrangement of the year 18 4 7 the G' an:. Under to have retained the land as ase overnment were of the sum of 268,0001. ; b ut, if t en b rity for the payment land to other parties, i t was only f ey handed over the air that the company should have some other gaajantee for the payment of their claim. The document to which the Right Hon. pints in Gentlemn had refe rred was si mp l y a d e fi n i t io n o f th e nadir pute with land.' : respect to the distribution of the . . . deal with them ; .i: they were, unfit ) 4k,dpal with them, power comirtilt tto the m the' poer to . do so? ~.linity of peithewasiessentiale end a=elettr , t:iitri'bOticin and an ace seeretie 4 i 4v10404 ef power, were alsO o& power, "the. United rate5,.W4.1e 4 .., : p4 ;..r as i cgilr4al institutions were eseifieernal,;!Wei iji model ef_irolitiol:wi...tlona, no such turtle.ae -oodearreitt" fa t q 4.46ti0 n ' ' f.,.5,•4•• t: ,- :' , %rn.--:(410ar;) 114, , .i,,,he : 61aopld.1 - 41616 Idow t - egiteit f e eliq tt ou with t 3 ~. • !- - ‘ ) '!l4::rA,Jtirl*cl4PLl,.9.4) , 4lv4 , o.4.)rigiti .of bliivimin thif, cenritry lc.. P . in Fail4rtieTit. 4 seee4ettv . gay duleg, , . , : theittpewer fobtlier'*iet bit nO" powerlaould iiiterif: ! gatlieseeet. s _That:wee' not` {fie eeaseevuhlih es , di str ie 4gislppirfs:.,they were not Ao _cxe'reito. hertaicupo Wets, sad 't o a e t e e4e t„law powtzS i ; as • oecasibst 'requirad, so ethers; on 1 . 6 hentl'efy, they were to exercise all powers, j whatsoever,eubject to eemeexcaptiona. Ile tlionglhishat this was a serious objection eo-the Bill, 'find if he did not join with, his Hon. Friend iti depretesting the progress - fit the Bill, it was b ecau s e o f t h e l arge , powe of alteration ' , 'Kieetieby the '13i11.-(1101r, hear.) His belief was that. the. intelligent body of the , colcinists wouild themselves hAd the remedyof their hasty and crude legislation, an& 3 ie ld bring - - ••) ou.. about that principle of. unity 'which he res . gerdedso much.-(llettr, hear.) Another great.obj , o 72 , ;Lion, to the Bill was, that it requited tee cdonists to teait for twoyeara before they could knew whelser the lawir paSsed by them received oho sanction of the:lmperial LC7 gishitnie. Now, he would stigg est to the Bight ,Hen: Gentleman, t h at if the Right H Gni Gentlemaninserted four months or six menthe,- it would not tulltake fristh' the.ileieecy of the measure whilst it would_ be a great matter gamed in p p oint ' of practical (eliere hear.) Tholigh he . -- id -: nee —, egare:_. , _ , . ,_ altogather,;, .must -•- ' m at d n ot i7iah to lose the 'Bill 41nadpa,.!4t:..b;44111,74:htothhir0 were olle j ..(iir„lgiQ.: .. 0 no quite.eeseatted if is, were pass&cl. ;Too Riiht. (tit:tight fit--tollow,ing; i n t i ii ,. • .iii 9r ° o '9 3 Gretitirtsne.leed' 3:anee chOtra i 'oas ' his departinente-in his epeteVeet - 6,.,,' for _ • Q c. t2 . lA' laliant4o4ola Z 9 alandlotriphsadi or qr:i l' ireile sett. a telligsp sas merseiree, kreeteettihettoe sfateeikte l be ln y e ati o ti; st , th'eie ireelligihice be hiving hem ur ea f cetr.d.in numb r' of:yeara-under arbtitrary-goreiniaient:--tho ;night Hon.' Gentleman .had thought '.fist to pedpese 'Mit Ithey s h ould ' . -9eli be govereed by a- auperintendent, '.0..q.,-; was-no -Flo bp electiye- 7 -tliongh we .trust . persons eider our oven *Cies to elect mayors to bait) authority over 50,000 Deople-but to be nominated by the Governor of New • Zetelaed; and, for fear the superintendent should txesubs jeered to the peril of starvation, he provided that each superintendent should have a salary of 5001. a year. Now he (Hr.. Gladstone) thought it would be a great iftlerOventent to get rid both of the office of superinten &et cifid'the salary attached to it. , - - --(flear, hear.) lie wished the J3ighe Hon. Gentleman to consider from what source the political office derived its :advantages. They were there in an assembly - of 650 gentlemen who gave laborious services to their country. 'There were other ,offices in, this . country connec t e d w i t h the ' Executive ' departroent 'which. were . also laborious. ' The first dies of officers were unpaid, the second salaried: but who. <quid say • that the executive offices were coveted more than . a seat in that House? And why was' a teat in that House • coveted? Because it was a mark of confidence on the part of a 'portion` of their fellow-aubjeets. ' That confidence did - the work of mosey, and it did it far better thin money-(Hear s hoar)-and if the Right .Hon. Gentleman would allow the colonists to choose out from amongst' themselves those whom they knew to be their best men, and to be'e stow on .their fellow eitizais marks of their respect and confidence, he would find that, without . his undertaking to provide-5001. a yeer,..these offices would not only he - Objects of licieourable competition .to the coliniiste, hut would 'draw • from.' England 'men of a different and a higher clue than could ever be &Awn till there was stamped On thewhole..of - the colonial institutions the :seine hrhadand deep character of freedom whible marked 'the institutions of the mother. country.-..(Cheers) There Was one other !milieus which he could not help Itiladirig,' endahat was tee question of. a nominative eseedeetive council. In constituting his lecaelegislature,:the Right Hop. Gentleman,•hed certainly thrown tradition over board; but in constituting this central legisttlni e he had . provided : , that the legislative eutiucii' should be eeminutivo. Et • this important par ticular his plan greatly degenerated from . that of his predecessor. --'lf he understood aright ehe pulley of Lord Grey, what he desired was that the legislative Council . _ of New Zealand sho u ld. be 'comp ose d of se sons eteeted by the-local legislatures:- It Wassquite evident, they the Noble Earl d er i ve d that idea from the `United States of America; and ; as he before said, in going to the United States for hints for the improve ment .of CM colonial system, - the Noble Earl resorted to the. best fountain.. If there were one thing in the constitution of the • United States which, more than all others, entitled the authors of that astonishing work to the gratitude of. their countrymen and to fame as wide and lasting as the world, it was the system which they adopted for the election of their senate, ithro clueing the principle of election, net by the, number of their < population, but by the separate states, and thus providing a principle to counteract the' noire principle of poptilar election in the chambers. He could not help paying a tributd of praise to the Noble Earl for choosing that plan of constructing his legislative council. Now, the Right Hon. Gentleman had in that particular fallen back on the ordinary practice; he proposed a nominative legislative council. He (Mr. Gladstone) thought the Legislature Council ought to be elective. He would illustrate his vie* by referring to what was taking place in North America. If they traced the annals of Canada they would find that during the last few years there had boon several energetic move ments, the object of which was to supplant and get rid of the system of nomination. How had those movements 'been made and defeated? Those movements had been. made by what was called the Conservative or Tory party in Canada; they had been defeated by the Liberal partY: They had been defeated for a reason similar ep i thet by means of which &Chancellor of the Exchequer met a proposal to repeal a tau, nimely, by showing that it was not convenient to do what was asked at that moment. They had been defeated because the Liberal party, being iti possession of power, acted on the welbenderstood principle, "Let well alone." They had to deal With an intractable Legislative Council, composed of noinineea:' .They swamped them; a majority was converted into a minority, ' and the council was , brought into harmony with the 'assembly. The same thing took place -in 'Nova 'Scotia. There was exactly the same division of opinion, The Conservative party Alex.° for au elective council, 'and the Liberal patty succeeded in defeating them, though only by a majorityof one. Let them take a homely view of this question. It was not difficult to bring the House of Peers up to London, but it was exceedingly difficult to bring the members of a legislative council to Toronto, much more difficult to bring them to Halifax, and more difficult still to' bring them to Wellington, or whatever plaCe might be' the capital of New. Zealand. It musehe recollected that in thestecolonies they had i ctot men of large means, Then of leisure; and men who were almost horn to politicall pur e suits, and perfectly 'willing to bear their own expeuseie In the coloniesit was:, found that in order to male, mei do the work, it was- necessary to pay, them, to enable them to beer the expenses of their journeys, absence from their ordinary puesuits, and the loins 'of the profits which those pursuits would bring thein.• Now the coloniSts ,would stand that payment - when it wits givee to th presentatives; but they wotild net ; stead it when given . to nomineithee(flear.) The7Right Hon. man must know that the' GovernMent of Caned sometime almost. brotight t 6 a dead lock-that the! often .a greet ifileulty in gettin g a entoetusenf te lative Counci l' to pus' the reqeisitameasureie - . JI ,, Might'be the honoue 'of the neinfeadon, the meet the Council could/not live upon it; they could not to absent. themselves from home without being pai . L e a the colonists would in no case consent to PaY4,s b nj long es they held their semi by l immitletl9n: hinh /r truth Was, that one. df ' those valgar superstitions. 1 it wa s necessar y so-protest-- agsixst year after year until they had been altogether exploded, was a tli pp e oi l ed ers i it t i h o i n s that it *as right to have a bedy es e s f_ n men . r i g the free actihn of country for the purpose of .. r e ep , 'Colonies:-( Hear, hear.) .popular , sympathies 'en ta t Certainly, f'fi•l .were . o f the colonies, e that this country had, {with h interests diltinct 'respect to .the 'weeks o Worn those: of t he - inhabitants, it would 'be acting o n sound principles, it would be right even at the hazard o f providing for the ' • , somejealousy.and 'di ffi culty, is Main ' tenancet of those interests, But it was not so . .I t had ne interest apart from theirs; that which .contributed to their - greettness, their strefigth, and their expansion, was the interest of this country. That there should be an infittence from home was not merely one of those, idle errors which might lie by, as in a lumber room and do little harm, it was an error pregnant with michiele oe every kind, anciaehicis tended to keep tip that . ' system of intereeetiou in andlonies- which • was so prolific of .eapeesee tremble vexation,. and retarded'' areas of colonial enterpriee. For these ucl the . pro .sons it would be most' gratifing t • ts- It' the similar Fee -0 Ith fl. Govern ment would reconsider the y iifte s si . . . on of a elective Council and introduce into their Bill a Proposal similar to that of .the Noble Earl (Earl Grey), hAaother point to which lie must:refer had referenc Company. The Hen, Member for f t o o r t L e New Zealand eonainster had spoken of its•honourable intentions, and • corrupt motives. He had not the slightest its freedom from test that statement; he had :not the 1118 h to eon of the patriotic objects of the d. slightest doubt company. At the same time he slightest of that he looked upon companies formed mast confess that poses, when they once -got tor colonial par mereantile business of b - • • Out of the purely rut In an old e country into thesoil g g the capital of o f a new one, with incurable jealousy, As long ag Smith, ,companies in.that.positi --o as the days of Adam kreii;est obstacles to colonial were branded as the dvanc They had one re markable instance, that ement.-(Hear.) of e Hudsoifts .Buy. Company, which' spr e ad a death shade th over an enor mous region.. If they Were to have any home govern ment at all in a colony let it b '-slot it be - a government whiche the Queen's Government nd with which , hey could discuss sat in that,h9ll of day, every colonial question. a Thesereel and in the e light which were shrouded in obscurity , ' companieow, spirit necessarily crept, and which into which a narr nd , wore narrow,'he must confess he loo k ed ecame ni9tr:thegreate," upoh with jealousy. ,He knew there toe the rule., worn exeeptiOn e s son New schemes and doctrinesed. by the had Veen br moment New Zealand . ' Company and ho did not for a . and 'mean to draw a comparison between that company the nucleon's Bay Company.-(Criesof e g e ar, hear.") . . torial What he said was, that there too much of tern power involved in the W the New Zealand Com pany, scheme o f frightful; and that the waste of money. had been he was itf raid thii both to the directors and the share-, Tho holders the concersehad proved most unprofitable. question who was-in the right - and who was in the wrong o W as One a great deal too intricate for' • p y hi 112 t to d e i n '2 ter 367olT bet the result was that utter thi ' c - J - mnell.hi .. „„id , 268,00‘..• .._. , 1 thou.„ . they ; there still remained un r - • ositionef the New Zea ought not to alter the pecuniary P him that• they mate- land C and it ompany, position ppeared to by this Bill. By the riallY altered - their upAct of 1847, it was providedthat there should be charged of that company, upon the land an dpaid to the New Zealand -it rB l entle- L:kitsit 4 1 ,4#7 Po ' 4 116ra , and -1 p Sir GRAHAM asked whether his Right Hen. riend the Secretary for the Colonies would have uny objection to produce the document? Sir J. PAKINGTON replied that he was ready to produce it. He should observe that it merely Contained the mode agreed on between Lord Grey and the New Zealand Company for carrying out the arrangement of