The Sun. — London, England, 1812-04-24 00:00:00

•- li sate the strength of the nation, and secure the integrity of the empire. Ireland bad no fears for -her Church, end deprecated those penal laws which were gisen ftir her ptoteetion, as exposing her to dan c er the most imminent ; and both the Protes .tant .nd Catholic religions begg•-d. that they might - not be o;-posed to each other ; anchthat their corn nee saleiy reheat not te sacrificed by Government tearing that ho:d_of union which was as necessary to the PrOtestant safety. as the Catholic interest. He begged Gentlemen to consider es eat must follow a • centioualton of the Catholic disabilities. When a Governmeet appeared anxious o maietain itself by persecution, irlost all hold on the affeCtions of the people, and could only govern by coercion. Something worse than the alienation of Itelaed must follow. Nifik,t then e old it br followed by ? He might flatter them by c eiceaang tee truth, but he was too honest to does°. He would therefore tell them, it would be followed by a separation. A separation in fact, or a virtual se;.aratio . would be the consequence. In either eas , England wouid be undone. She would be - undente if ltd withdrew from the Government of England ; she would he undone, if the disposition and the hearts of her Irish subjects were weaned from her. Thus, whether -the separation was actual or virtual, it wettld be equally injurious to England. • This -would be fatal to us. France could not ac eomplisb our ruin, but we were perfectly compe tent to accomplish our own destiudion. Ireland, in this case, must go down to the grave, but the gor geous grandeur of England must follow it to the tomb. Of a population of sixteen Millions, they would thus strike out four millions from them, an ea unparalleled in the history of former times. If they atted tltus with an active population who were every d.ty fighting for this country against France, they did that for which they could have no excuse, but that the band of death piecieitated them to per dition. The day Engtind signed the doom of Ire land, that day she -signed tier own doom. The King who sacrificed his subjects, and the people who secrificed their fellow-sunk cis, doing this, , act aced themselves. This was unavoidable. They now held in -their.own hands the scaled the•destiniei of the two coutartes. It Ireland were cast out, Eng. 1 thd remaining in the balance A ould be found want ing. England would finally lose herself, after losing America and Ireland, by taxing the one and disqua- Ii ying the other. They made partial and.arbarary laws, which no power could have a right to do.— They denied men those privileges to which they were entithea on grounds ,which Could oever justify such a measure. They might with equal wisdom and justice. say, a man of black complexion should not • • sit in Parliament, as that a man should not be a Ge- • because he was -a Catholic. These things, however, were said to . be done for the general good. The general -good, in the recelern sigifification of the phras'e, meant but the exercise of the power of the State against the happiness of the people. It sseis said to be for the general good that America was !eked (hut this not been found to be so), and this was - also snid by the chsqualifications attached to the Catholics ut Leland, There were two laws, - the Municipal Lek and the law of God. When any Parliament acted coetrary to the law and order of God, as expressed in his works, or in ti e Bible, that Parlia ment exceeded its potters. When a Pal lianient, as in such a case as the piesent, rested its pow eta on such a foetid it ion as (het which had now been thought sufficient to deprive men ,ot their rigats, it in effect apposed the Almighty e and though it had an army of Michaelson its side, yet it struck God out of its ecclesiastical proceeds: gs, and libe , ty out of its per ' licy. This system had commenced with America, and thence extended itself to It eland. With respea to the Catholic religion, there were three.objetaioes started. The Ist was the euchar;st ; the 2d, 'time ader ations of the Virgin Mary ; the 3d, the spiritual power ot the Pope. The two first contained nothing what soever in them of political moment, and ought, therefore, to be rejeraled, and with, which an en lightened Parliament ought never to lutel fere; be would theretore look to the third. On this lie had to Oimerve, that the,Catho!ics had ,abjured the in teraerence of the Pope in temporal affairs. The ob . lately started with respect to the sacrament -en mart !age was one which ought .to have no weight, its marriage being but a civil contraCt,could not con trout the law of the land. Excommunication, which had been meetionrd, had nothing to do with the s athjeet, and no power possessed by the Consistorial Ceurt ha'd the ell'eat of-making the Catholics other than good subjects, as a i-eference to the good con duet of • the Cathohcs would sufficiently prove.— Now, with respect to the Pope's commanding the alleeianhe of Catholics, and of beihgable at arty time to alehscla teem from their. sot ereign ; he u Ould.ask, if this were the case, how the ereseut Pepe came to he in his present situation ? 'DA such appear to be his power_ in the countries of France, Germany, and Italy ? Was it such in that where he is now a I)6st - tee' , ? Aye, but then it Ives said in the Petition scout Cambridge, that his power was greater titan ever. Was such .tfie case, be would ask, with Fer ri nand of S t ain ? He was a prisoher, like t he• Pope, Intl would it he also contended that his power was • was greater than ever ? Considered a s art argument, • this-was abaurd—was ludicrous indeed. He begged . to ask - ,-whether or not the present 'Admieistration bad exaCted .any guard from Spain and Portugal *t e ams: the influence of the Pope.? If not, 'accord ing to the arguments at home, the country was put to en expense of 20,000,0001. and for w hat ? Why, to raise the power of France in altose countries by - weans of the Pope, as. it was said he was more for midable than ever ; now he was, a prisoner in the hunds of b:rance.- In the Peninsula, though be had heard of no such.arrangement having been made, England was-seen fighting fix Church and State.— bus, w oae we'vt ere labouring to show our attach- meet to bigotry, we trod on it when it came in out eety, and only raised it up to oppress those whose ireerest we ought to regard as identified with our own. He would contend, that as the Pope at pre sent was perfectly inaccessible, his spiritual power was et an rend, and therefore the Catholic religion' was as much separated from any foreign concern as city other dissenting sea, and ought not to labour under religious disabilities more than other dissent ers. When the present situation .of the Pope was considered,- he thought they had no right to say they could not now come to such an arrangement (even Li this Sassioe) as should release the Catholics from those restrictions of which they complained. He hoped that they would not say now they were not %teed among themselves, and that it was therefore . of au use to ee.; into a Committee. This be denied. • . Ho denied drat The periple di? England *ere sgalnsf Catholic Emancipation, and was satisfied no s dirt objection stood in the way, but those which rested with the preset)! Crown Ministers. It was said that we tog rated the Catholic religion. He denied this to be the faCt. They did not tolerate it ; on the contrary, they punished it. Was he in an English assembly, and would it be said that civil disqualifi cations were not a punishment ? Whet was tolera tion but the extension of power to protect the pro petty and lives of subjeas—to guard against the ex-s ertions of arbitrary power, and to prevent taxation without representation, together with a security for a fair and free trial by jury ? The Catholics had none of these. They wee; not tried, by their Peers, but by Protestant partisans, and he particularly.wish ed this to be inquired into. How many instances were there in which no Catholic could . be admitted on 'a jury ? In which the High Sheriff was a Protes tant partisan ? The Catholic, in marry instances, had not the same advantages as a foreigner. He bad not a jury half of his own persuasion, but on -a question of disqualification, he was tried by a jury of - these who disqualified him. It might be said that it was ambition in the Catholic which made him wish to be relieved from evils like these. Why so it was, but it was merely an ambition to possess the common rights of nature. It was the - ambition of a woman not to be ravished ; it was the ambition of a man not to be murdered : and was such a feeling to be censured as ambitious? if this, in the opinion of the British Parliament, was ambition? what must be their ideas of liberty ? He denied that the AO of the year 1793 gave the Catholics civil power, and it was another reason for taking the subject into considera tion, that Gentlemen were so unapprised of the na ture of the law with respe6l to Catholics. The Ca-. tholics merely called for some security against that policy which rendered the - English name odious in Ireland, which made British faith equivocal in Ire land, and which went to disinherit and •disqualify one-fourth of the population . of the British Empire. Where was the danger of doing this ? Was it in . the Eucharist ? Was it in the adoration paid to the Virgin Mary,. or did it arise from the apprehension entertained of the family of the Pretender ? Lei those who-contended there was danger in giving what the Catholics claimed answer these questions. Let them set forth their trains of hobgobiinsand witches at once. Let them give some reason—some apology for ba oishing the CAholics from the enjoyment of civil rights to all eternity. To' the objections nrged against the Pope, he would answer, Ist, that be had at preset); no power ; 2dly, that France had no power over his disposition ; and idly, that the Ro man Celiac- have now no coinaiunication with him. The danger' apprehended' then was not im mediate, and could only be prospettive, It• was now said the Catholics would not concede the veto, but it was to be remembered that Government 'might have had it before. They might have had the veto in 1795, in 1800, in 1805, and in ma. If inert they had not got the veto, the fault was theirs. They bad no right to ask where was now the veto ? If they asked him that question, his answer would be, that it was where they had put it. What remained to be shine ? Would they send persons to make proselytes of the Irish 'S Would they take away their arms ? Wohld they drive. them from the army ? They were too wise to do this. What then ? Would they continue the dis qualifications to throw odium, on the English name, and to alienate Ireland ? Would they seek secu rity in a virtual separation ? He would say, it was necessary to the connection -between the two coun tries, to tell the Irish people that England was not an enemy to their Privileges, and to tell the Eng lish people that Ireland was not adverse - to- them. But when each country was told the contrary, the seeds of discontent were sown ; the wife was in duced to divorce from the husband, and each .was instigated to-hate, and to annul that marriage tie in which they had been heretofore bound. Ir for the. purpose of securing amity, of blending and unAing all classes and descriptions of subjects, they would found their empire upon the•strong groom( of mu tual privileges ; they would establish a strength which nothing could subdue, and attack a popula lion which never would desert them, not even in the last extremity. He considered this a cause which might appeal to every quarter of the globe from circumference to centre, and he was certain it would live when dull declamation was silent and forgotten. lie could as soon befiere that the navy of England would be borne away by witches—that • its army would be annihilated by au equally ridieu lons disaster, as that that House, upon any ground less alarm, could forget its prudence; its window, and its justice. He found by the call of the HOU3q that there were many Gentlemen present who were nut accustomed to attendi and to • them he would beg to address a few words. They would bo told that the people of Ireland were too barbarous to exercise such funCliona as the acceding to their claims would extend to them. But what was this? In other words it was saying thatathe English Go vet' iment in Ireland was•a nuisance. They world be told that the Catholic religion rendered the ex ercise-of those functions still more dangerous. Arid what was thisi In -other words it was saying that religion contributed to their barbat ism ; and the inference •to be drawn from both was, that. both should be got rid of. They would be told in addition to this, that the art of settlement pre cluded such a grant ; but lie would ask where was the clause in which such a prohibition was cow allied, or 'where slsas the spirit from which it sv as appa rent ? No clause to such an etre& could be shown, and the spirit was altogether on the opposite side. To such dodrines as those, the Catholic would answer,. that it was utterly impossible to make religion the measure of empire ; be would an swer, that in the act of Union the oath was provi sional, and intended to last only till Parliament should alter it to the contrary. Those were the Ministers who, if they (lid not introduce, at least • voted' for the Ael drawn up in this provisionary manner, which they were now so anxious to rep-se sent as fundamental and immutable. It was a de ception on the people of Ireland. He would ask, -why were Catholic foreigners employed in high mi litary situations ? If all that wasaidvanced against. the profess Ors of that religion were well founded, was it that they reserved exclusion for their own countrymen and fellow-subjetis ? He. would deny that, according to the Constitution, this was a Pica._ testant Parliament ; by the Ad of 1793, the Com mons represented Catlmlics, for the Catholics were possessed of the elective franchise. In answer to all itat wAs said rigainit at tiLkinikSion '6( tholics into the Senate, lie would beg leave to appeSl to the prod - ice of Ministers ;he would 'ask then) why the Irish Catholic was admitted into the army and into the navy ? He would then appeal to the Admirals of the navy, and the Generals of ihr at my, to know how they. behaved ? He . wotahl ask the pbblic papers how many of them had died in the service ? He would ask - them how malty Catholic Officers had been• Wounded, and whether they'could become Generals? He would ask the public opi niou what - characters they had maintained io,all the relations of life ; he would ask the Protest int houses of Lriosier, of Ormond, and of Latouclte, who re sided amongst them, and who were, therekre, riot only the most competent judges of their charaeter, but-the most immediately ioterested in any question, in which they were concerned; he would appeal to . the hospitals which were filed with their wounded, and to the fields of Portugal which were streved with their dead. He would appeal to the princielas of the Constitution against that policy, which would set men to cut eaah others throats in a metaphysieed, ecdesiastical e and tale war; he would appeal to every standard bt which human condu(t could _be tried against n ►ischievous, such malicious, and such disgusting d, gradation. The whole case lay in one sentence—the two counties were ruined unle-s they were united, and the_. language of - leeland'wes, .o. we will have our liberties; ac then our-lives are at your service." He concluded with moving " for a Committee to consider the state of the Laws im posing Civil Disabilities on his ralajeoy's subjeds pro fessing the liontan,Catholic Rd gion." Doctor nowt:oats said, that the claims for which ' the Right Hon. Gentleman contended ceui.d only be efieded in one way, and that was by ihe,rrpeal of all those laws referred to in the oaths of et yre macy, by. i lie repeat of all tests anti corporation acts,' and an alteration.of the whole Constitution from the first establishment of the Protestant religion in England down to . the present time. The - Roman Catholics insisted upon full empancipation.; not satis fied to wait for any •gra,-lual course, they demanded the instantarreous, sudden, and total, repeal of all the acts with - which they were dissatisfied. In the reigns of Elizabeth and Charles the First, the acts of uniformity were intended to .be perpetual, and io the Act of Union with Scotland, these Acts were again tecited, and declared as operative in Eng. land, Ireland, and Wales, and the town of Berwick upon Tweed. But Lot only were those declared londamental aitides in the .Union with Scot laud, it was an article in the Union tail!) Ireland, that the English and Irish Church should be the same for ever. - Our modern philosophers and ora tors, it was true, declared that these oeght to be re pealed; but he should look- rather to the A6ts selves, and the grounds on which they were formed, than to their opinions. Another circumstance was, that the King was bound to support the Church, as by law established, yet this pledge he was called upon to sa6ifice, to what was delosively called Ca tholic Emancipation.. The Catholics had full reli- • gious liberty—they had the same security for their lives and properties that all other stobjeas of this country possessed; and tfiey were only reqnired to take the same...test and oaths—it they agreed to take them, they could have as much liberty, ,and as much political power. They 'had as much security for their liberties, as any -subjects of any nation on the face of the earth. Could it be s,id deaf th e suhjeds of France and Germany possessed such li berty of action, and such security of property ? They claimed complete equality through the Em pire; in the army, in die navy, and in the State, and that at the expence end in defiance of the two ads be had mentioned. The House must see that the King was obliged to swear that he would inviolably maintain the Protestant Religion. Now, if all the securities were demolished, how could that oath be maintained ? The meaorre would not only go against the cotonation otth, but against the prin- , ciples of rho union with Scotland and Ireland, and tiro for the purpose of - giantying the ambition of `those persons who wt re hostile to the State. - Hee should presently read a proof, to spew that no per son could be a true Rum in C who did not tel suc h ltosti i , v. It was contended that they had right to -religious liberty, yet who were those in ‘ , 4 hose right this favour was illSiVed on most intolerant religi .us body that Jostle, erappeared on the face (el the earth. They were more intolerant titan the Mahometans thetnselves. What was it that esta blished the Inquisition ? What• was it' that didat ed the very last Constitution established by the Cortes ii Spain ? was then determined that the Catholic religion shotild be the only religion of the State, and the only one toleraird. The Decrees of the Cooticils were almost matters of :aid) with the fol lowers of this religion ; and in one of those Decrees„ it was set down that, when they were weak, motives of policy should restrain !ahem, but when they w ere powerful, it, was at their own dascietien to oppress those who differedJiom them in faith. In Ire land, they did not meet with any disturbance to their religious liberty—% lett right then had they to petition for what they enjoyed ? He was so far a friend to religious liberty, when it was not hostile to the state, that he thought all the people were entitled to possess it—but in Ireland it ivas never dented to them. The second ground upon which the advocates of the itteasure•went, was that of the numbers, wealth, and power of the Catholics of Ireland. On assertion it was - stated, and twitting but assertion was adduced in support of it, that there were four millions of Catholics in Ireland, and that the Protestants did not amount to one in ten of this population. There was now a Bill iti Parliament to which he was a great friend, which would go to as- • certain the real state'tif the population, But taking it at present !roe) the best source, that of the calcu lation made by the collectors of Hearth-money, it .would %mourn to a number much inferior. In the parishes of Lisburn and Ghtnetie, the most manu laduring and populous patts of the whole country, they would lint, takingan children and all, that the calculation at ea ab ut five and a quarter. What must be the state - of it in Miserable huts ? Upon the whole they would find reason to conclude, that the population of the whole kingdom did net exceed three millions five hundred thousand. On a calcu lation taken by a Roman Catholic Bishop in the year 1652, the population was estimated at two millions, one million three hundred and fifty thousand. of ,which' wete Roman Catholics. It was supposed that since that pea iod they could not have; increased to-so great a number, especially when they considered the constant wigrat:ons froth that country were iji- .erienb e b4l. 'they ri 1- , tilt added more thaele 6 milliOnste the Popyiation iitt the came space of time.. Tor all tins mighty sliew of numbers there was no;- - thing but asset Into on the other side, and he hoped ',. th.tt one assertion was ait i t ood as another. With,re speel to their eietlth, it was stated at 3 prodigieus rate. The Gentlemen who alluded to it, confined their observations to personal i•roperty alone, and for - a very good reason—ne,ause they were aware., that they bad no r e al pmpert v.. lie would venture to sty, that of the real property of the kingdom, they did not posses (me our of for y-nine parts ; and a 4 to: the ceinmercial propetty, they had not a tenth p a le The Rigto ily iuur.ibir Gentleman (tad said; . that this measure arried wi b it the sense of the • Protestants of Ireiznal. It was true there are mar-f . 'petitions on the table.; but he was aware, that Op . - t'icat lens hid been - made to several Grand Juries fo`i ••• the purpose; and sceived as soon as they were'pro. , - po-ed. Other steps were then adopted, and pead lions eeve surreptitiously sent about. Those pert tions received some eomeett wee, particularly froai he Gentlemen of t lie Opositioo. One person was threatened', if he did aim sign ihe petition, that Itis Ito se and goods would o- set fire to ; am! every - poor Proteseen, in a retail b sinesS in Dublin, was instantly threatened w ills the loss of his .business, if tie did not sign the peti t i on .. Thi s petition was v. kept in' a private tool') in the Commercial Coffee' 1-1.-use of Dublin, and it airy person demanded to see . he was asked it he would sip it, and if he answered in I lie negative, it was not shewn to him. Besides Oa Gentleman who had re' esented the Petition had stated, that the sigtuture ~ vere not the original 11,10 writing, but 311 copied out. , He knew there was one most respect,ble family in favour of it, but • one voice was of little consequence, and lie would con end that not one in a hundied of the Protestants of Ireland would sign sticha Petition. There were some Dissenting Ministers belonging to the North of Ireland, who were turned out of their Meeting - Houses, and locked out for having done so. To attempt to impose such things on the sense of the people of Ireland was a 'gruss deception, which he was confident the Right Hon. Gentleman would not have praelised, it. he had .kndwrii the quarters frorut whence they came. The Roman Catholics were not 1: above three to two,: taking in the lower classes and rill ;so much for their wealth and numbers, and . their number was the strzngest point. insisted on; Let the House reflect upon this; let them see if . in any other country the lower ordefs were called the nation. The Protestants themselves, he maintained, were able to -keep down rebellion, as they had done in the year 1798. The Pro-, testants Were in some measure surPitised at that, period—they knew that something was prep. 4-! ing, but were n, , t aware that it would break out so. soon. Many thousands of Protestants, were murdered on that occasion, in cold blood.. —The defeat of Vinegar Hill, which 101:ow^ lowed shortly after, was . accomplished as end pene - dently of the Marquis Cornwallis„ as of any °the( General :exmmining in this country.. Such w a s the slate of the nation, and so the English Mi ni suf seemed to think; for the first course they adopted oil, to send the MarquiS of Buckingham and his Lady It'' that part of the U n i te d Ki ng d om. The actions , the Catholics in the army and navy were ovuel , dwelt upon in pamphlets, 'but the fact was, that otte half, ormore, connected with eacieservice from jre land were Protestants. A common soldier could live better than a labourer, and this was a great it" 1" ducemeut to dr.iw them from their homes. Tild Roman Catholics, he would again repeat, had a et . ' ter security for their liberties than the people of 0 1 1 other country, not excepting. France, Germany, Italy. They were not dragged by the conscriptioD to the chains of a depot, but entered voluntarily -to the service. As to the navy, nothing but sh'l l6 ping could breed sailors. .They called Etuaticipotici i what Ile would 01 revolution : for never, not eve r/ excepting the revolution Of France, was there a rued' sure which woold go so completely to revolutipa iZe country. Their ambers too, might be eo°' sidered in another point of view. There wo .e thirteen millions of Protestants in Great - tam, and ceu d they be called upon to sacrifice 'o 4 ' c:institution of then country to the u idles of I # 4l millions five hundred the :send of the lowest ordi of society, ? Even, if th e theoretical opinions Di. P ;ley Were adopted, and - the - majority allo,"" to the, religion o f th e State, the 011116 . 1 1- could oot succeed. Ile alluded io„tne sent i men ts Di. Twy, and Dr. Milner, and the Letter of . PL - - Copinger . to the Dublin Society,. which lie char sc ; tensed excluding tg the i ca idi a , s anost i hitlt tan intolerant alllprtit but tut Catholicaio---tlie schfeloll'olli, and the lacier prohibiting CathyliCser %anis _( r0 0) c•" tending Protestant prayers in tlitir mast ers ._ f in esc 6 ' Hu theta ,:cnt on and quoted the cat h of die COO' he Bishops, by which they were sworn to be 1 3 i de ful to St.. Peter, the Holy Ch urc h of R ome , and dot Pope, to defend the reyaity of St. Peter against e l seen, and to centr'bine gl-1 in their power to 3 " 4 ; . meet and promote his domiuien: The tempar B( i' - Mill:keit:nem of the Pope afforded n o r eie ,ou 11)r ) neglveting those &I - elm:platters. He (Dr. 13) represented a s an tonhe litnean Czoltollc.i -but he pryer w as an enemy to the r m i n an y tbl il ; except -the poSs e s s i on of -political power, which -‘ l , l should al way s oppose. He next adverted • the oath a,: m i n i stere d to P al i s h Priests, by %Oiled th e y sw ore o h e di eoce to the Pope, its the Vicar Jesus Christ. Such, he maintained, were the 0 1 f prescribed by th e ir g enera l council, end yet ti t ` ,r called for emae c ip a ti on , or , i n ot h er words, ( o r (0 equal share of political an hority. On lookite; the (Irene's el the Lateran C-,uticil, which Doe t Troy- acknowledged, th e y wou ld fi n d , t h at subje','J weld permitte4 to dethrone their ~ prince, it 10 1 . n o t ex p e l her ties freM dotteniewe t b e three t. flowing- Councils they. w o u ld fi n d, that sime principles went incukared, and that oaths j . Protestants, as heretics, are nt.t considered as hi'o Mg. It was observed, that Protestants were n e ` o o disaffected in Catholic countries, awd the re . 5 0 was, that Protestants were liberal to all. As t ° ,,ait loyalty of the C a th o li cs , he mot say, that . 0111 01,, bound in:allegiance to a foreign prince, he o . e e!` only call them peaceable, put loyal.: Such Eli o t! lousy did Bu u n e p arte f ee l towar d s t h e Clergy, t reel/ he nominated every parish priest in France ; 3 0 0 what reason could be given Why the King of t .of , country should not feel ao equal jealousy, sod i` P O 'On a similar nomination ? Persons of the d e script.; ) of which he was speak i ng were more dangerous 101,;. popular Gp vernment lik e .0.4 than tuide i a dcsf \Ut Monarchy. , The Pope, after all that could be f ee . . •