The Sun. — London, England, 1852-12-04 00:00:00

. --- . ions necessary for the protection of the revenue. I I have shown you that there has been a diminution of will not say anything about the use of molasses poor-rates from 1848 to 1851 of nearly 25 per cent.—a in breweries, or the reduction of the duty on rum, very important point for me to consider as regards the for the same reason which induced me not to enter expediency of dealing with those rates ; but, though into discussion respecting stamps or charterparties there has been, from 1848 to 1851, a diminution of and marine insurances. They are not questions of pecu- nearly 400,0001. a year in the poor-rates, I have here liar burdens, but enter into the consideration of the the return for 1852 ; and I. am sorry to say that that means by which the general revenue of the country shall rate of diminution has not only ceased, but that very tie raised ; and this is not the moment to make any ob- little diminution has taken place. (Hear, hear.) The ervations on that point. There is one other subject returns of the Poor-law Board, which I have in my hich it is necessary for me to touch upon before enter- hand, are very contradictory to the popular opinions . ' ng into the consideration of the general question—l al- that are held, and it is of the utmost importance that tide to the local taxation of the country. (Hear.) It we should have correct ideas upon this subject, is quite unnecessary for me to enttr into any of those ar- not only with reference to the condition of the guments with which we, all of us, are familiar as to the people, but also with reference to that important character of our local taxation. It is quite unnecessary question which is agitating the public mind—namely, for me any longer to enter into arguments to show th a t as to th e i n fl uence o f em i gra ti on upon th e consum i ng there are obje c t s o f universal interest to this country power of the country. One would suppose, from what which are, in fact, sustained by taxati on i m p ose d, not on we are to ld , and from what we read every day, that an the general property of the countr, but on a po r ti on o f abl e -b o di e d pauper was no t i n ex i stence, .an d t h at a that prop er t y on l y. (Hear, hear.)y The whole question time has arrived in which the common business of the has been met so ingeniously by one who, though opposed country cannot be carried on. Now the fact is, that to the policy I sometimes recommended, is a master of in that wonderful period of 1851-52, in which the subject--I mean Mr. Cornewall Lewis—that lam we heard all these stories, and when I, for one, was perfectly willing, as far as any reasoning on the subject prepared to see certainly an equal diminution of pau is concerned, to rest it on th e ev id ence g i ven b y p er i sm i n th e country, there has been no such result. that gentleman before a committee of the House The amount of the rates for 1851 was 4,962,0001., of Lords on the subject of local taxation, and sub- and for 1852, 4,894,000/. ; and I find, froth the return sequently revised and printed by him in a pamphl e t for the half-year ending in Michaelmas, 1852, that the when in office, and, of course, with the sanction of amount is 2,432,0001, which being doubled would give the Government to which he belonged. As far as prig- 4,864,000/. for the year ; -but you must remember that • ciple is concerned, there can no longer be any con- the half-year ending at Michaelmas is the mild half test upon this point. Take the case of the tax for the year, and, therefore, I do not think we can believe support of the poor. Is there, in the world, an obli ga - that any sensible reduction of the pauperism of the tion so generally binding as that of supporting the poor 1 country ought to be relied on. I confess myself, not- Yet, it , cannot be denied that the poor are not supported withstanding this return, I believe that the country by the general property of the country. (Hear.) It is is in a most prosperous state, and I will not unnecessary, therefore, for me to enter into any discus- relinquish the belief that pauperism will yet be sensibly sion upon the subject. Some years ago the real property diminished ; but it is my duty to place these facts before of the country—namely, the agricultural portion—being the house. Still the great fact remains that the charge for suffering under great distress, was extremely sensible of pauperism in this country upon realised property, and es the great injustice of being called on to pay exclusively pecially upon the agricultural interest, has been reduced local rates for universal obligation, and the agricultural by the amount of 25 per cent. since I first drew the at interest naturally called the attention of Parliament, to tention of the house to the subject—(hear, hear)—arid the incidence of this unequal taxation. After the divi- there is no doubt, notwithstanding the somewhat dis sions which took place in this house, and the progress of appointing return I have just placed before the house, opinion on the subject, I think I may assume that we that there are circumstances in operation at this mo shall have no dispute upon principle, and we have n ow t o ment which, if human judgment can lead us with any consider what course we shall take with respect to taxa- advantage, must considerably affect the amount of pan tion which is mainly levied for purposes of general obliga- perism in this country. I have no doubt the counteract tion, but is not levied on the whole community. The local ing causes that, for a moment, have arrested the rapid taxation of the country is a subject with which the diminution of the rates might be discovered, but I my house is so fathiliar, that I saall be able to treat it self still believe there are circumstances and causes in more succincly than I probably should have been operation that will progressively, and even materially, able to do a 'short time back. This local taxation diminish the pauperism of the country. Well, then, sir, I resolves itself into three principal rates. The highway- have to consider, under these circumstances, whether rate has been discussed in this house chiefly with refer- it will be expedient to deal with the sum that is raised ence to its improved administration. The county-rate, by local taxation for the maintenance of the poor. I though not very considerable in amount, has excited pub- have to recollect that, since I brought this subject for lie interest from the attempts which have been m a d e t o ward, there has been such a diminution that four times establish the representative principle in connexion with the establishment charges of the board have been saved its management. . The third great rate, which has long to the realised property of the country. (Hear, hear.) engaged public attention, is the poor-rate. I will not say I have to recollect, also, with regard to that peculiar anything on the subject of the highway rate. Six bills portion of the realised property of the country whose have been brought into Parliament, with the view of claim I urged, that since the period of 1849 the relative establishing a better administration of the highway-rates, proportion between that property and the other realised and it was my intention not even to have adverted to property of the country has undergone a change, and the subject, were it not that my hon. friend, the Under that from both these causes the incidence of this taxation Secretary for the Home Department, who presided with is less severe. Thirdly, Ido believe that all the influences singular ability and unwearied industry over the commit- in operation, notwithstanding the return I have quoted tee on turnpike trusts, and who on several occasions has, to the house, tend to the diminution, and the consider as the house has recognised, proved himself to be a master able diminution, of that burden. (Hear, hear.) Well, of the subject—has, though having quite enough to do sir, as my means are limited—looldng, as I have anxiously in his own office, been kind enough to assist me in the pre- looked, for means by which I might assist every suffering paration of a bill on the subject of highway -rates. I class, every class which I think has a fair claim to the l i hope that this bill will, after six experiments, win the consideration of the house, in a manner which would con confidence of the house and the country, and have a tribute to the general welfare of the community—heliev beneficial effect, both administratively and financially, ing that the measures which, on the part of my col on the districts affected by the highway -rate. The county leagues, lam about to propose to-night have that ten rate, although the smallest of the three, has, from the dency, and that they will greatly assist those who, I peculiar circumstances to which I have already adverted, think, have been subjected to a very severe trial, and excited a good deal of interest in this house. With re- . who, in thi s respec t, I conce i ve, are liable to a taxation spect to the a d m i n i s t rat i on of this rate I will state gene- which, on principle, cannot be defended,—l am not pre rally, on the part of the Government, that we have not pared Jo r commend any change whatever in the present the slightest objection to the representative system being system of raising the local taxation of the country. carried into any portion of the management of the affairs (This announcement was followed by loud cheers from of this country into which it can be introduced with the Opposition benches, and the right hon. gentleman advantage to the general interests of the community. having paused for a few moments, a very animated con (Cheers.) I therefore see no reason to object, at the versation was carried on in the interval by hon. mem first blush of the thing, to the proposition that the rate- hers on both sides of the house.) I have now, Sir, payers should be introduced into the immediate manage- (the Chancellor of the Exchequer, continued), considered ment of the fund produced by the county-rate. At the three instances of peculiar interests that have, in my same time, I must observe that the fund is a small one, opinion, suffered by recent legislation. I have placed and that it comprises some important items of expendi- before the house the general views of her Majesty's Go which certainly ought not to be too much under the vernment with respect to those interests. I have offered, control of popular assemblies — I allude to the expendi- with regar d t o t h e sh i pping interest, measures which, as ture on acco un t o f gaols and lunatic asylums. (Hear, far as I-could judge of the feeling of the house, were, I hear.) The gaols and lunatic asylums have hitherto think, considered moderate but satisfactory. (Hear from been under the superintendence of the magistrates, and the Opposition.) I mean moderate so far in their coneep it is admitted that those gentlemen have, on the tion that they have not been framed with an ad captan whole, discharged their duties in a satisfactory manner, dim purpose ; satisfactory, because I believe this house though, speaking a priori, it might be objected that the and the country will take them as a final settlement of control of establishments of this kind ought not to be that controversy. I have endeavoured on the part of vested entirely in them. It cannot, I think, be doubted the Government to view the claims of the sugar colonies that the prisons of this country ought to be very much, in a just and fair spirit. lam sure that those who are if not entirely, under the control of the executive Govern- connected with that interest must be satisfied that it ment. (Hear.) I think the time is approaching—and it would be quite impossible to propose a differential duty may be rapidly—when we shall have to consider the —(cheers from the Opposition) —that that claim could whole question of punishments as one of the most press- only have been urged by those who were not masters of - - ing questions of the day—(hear, hear)—and an occasion the facts ; and they must see, from the course taken on will perhaps arise when the Government may feel that the part of the Government as to encouraging emigra they ought to act with more directness and decision with tion to the colonies, and permitting them to carry on the - - respect to the management of gaols than the house would manufacturing processes without the restrictions which ......"..-- no w be prepared to sanction. However, at prese n t, tak- before existed—a boon which has been described to me ing a limited view of -the local taxation, let u s see what by an eminent member of the Weqt India. body as equal burden it imposes on that portion of the property of the itself to a differential duty of 18d.,—they must feel, when country which has suffered most by recent legislation ; the Government have taken upon themselves the respon and if we be of opinion that that burden is unjust, let us sibility, for it is a grave responsibility, of recommending consider what remedy we can apply to the case. In the that step, besides others to which I shall have to advert, first place, let me remind the house that the incidence of that there has been an anxious desire on our part to the country-rate on the property of the country is ek- place them in as good a position as present circumstances tremely slight. The rate amounts to 800,0001., subje c t and the temper of the public mind would per to a deduction on account of contributions from the con- mit. I believe, Sir, that the measures tve have re solidated fund and other sources, to the exte n t o f commended with respect to the West India body will 200,000/. Taking this deduction into account, the rate sensibly improve the condition of that interest. I shall amorists to 3d. in the pound on the property assessed. not touch any further upon the subject of local taxation. Admitting the incidence of the bounty rate to be unjust, I now approach the more important topic of viewing the what can we do that will produce any sensible effect ? taxation of this country under the new circumstances in If we should throw half of the amount of the rate on which all parties and conditio ns of men have now agreed the consolidated fund, it would relieve the ratepayer to totbe placed. So long as there were two great parties the extent of three-halfpence in the pound ; but, at the in this country who questioned the principle upon which same time, it would enter into an undertaking of such an your commercial code ought to be established, it was amount as would sensibly embarrass us in dealing with impossible to attain any general adhesion to the prin 7 the general taxation of the country. There are many ciple upon which your ,financial policy ought to be taxes that do not produce more than 400,0001. a-year,-- constructed:- As long as a man thought that his . - and yet are extremely injurious to the community, and industry ought to be protected he was prepared to , injuriou s , of course, as a consequence,- to the great body endure= a heavy burden of taxation. As long as a of the agricultural community. I say, then, frankly, man thought that his industry should be free from, all as far as the county -rate - is concerned, that lam not restriction, of course -he demurred against the system prepared to recommend any change in that portion of the which imposed restriction upon the financial arrange local taxation. (Sensation, and some interruption caus e d milts of the country, and raised the prices of the arti yeonversation a mong h on. members.) I must remind Iles which he consumed. But from what has occurred hon. gentlemen • that they were so ki n d as t o i n ti. it is obvious, generally speaking, that unrestricted coin mate that they would not decide upo n m y p ro - petition is not 'consistent with unrestricted industry, and posal until it was altogether before them—(hea r , hear)— in . a word, if you decree that the community are to re- and that they would let the state my case. (Cheers.) ceive low prices ur policy ought to be one which will Now, sir, I come to the consideration of the poo r r a t es . put an end as soon aspossible to high taxes. (Hear, - Ido not in any way chang e my opinion that the abso- - hear.) - Well, Sir, after the general election, and after lute incidence of all local taxation is perfectly ind e e en . the solemn verdict of the countiy, I had to consid er t h e Bible in point of p r i nc i p l e ; b ut, looking to that which is g eneral sy s t em o f our taxation, Lid to apply it to th e most expedient for the coun t ry generally, and most e x - principl e o f unrestricted competition. I had to ask m - pedient for that class whi c h I thi n k may be injuriously self what were the measures which it was best to recoil affected by the present arrangement--taking that view went to'Parliament. Now this that th• principle is f orma ll y of the case, I will no w f or a moment examine the poor and definitively established, whit were the mea sures rates. We must, sir, remember, in the first plac e , th a t most consistent with that principle, and which would a very great change has taken place in the burden of th e enable the community to encounter that competition which poor rate since, at the commencement of 1849, I first it must now, in every form and in every sense, be pre brought under the consideration o f th e h ouse th e inci- pared to mee t ? Well, Sir, when I took that subject dence of our local taxation, a n d es p ec i a lly an d ma i n l y o f into consideration, given , it the u t most th ought I could - the poor rate, upon realized property, and particularly command, it, appeared to me that we must arrive inevi upon that portion of realised property which was pecu- tably at this result—that you will best enable the people Early subjected to thi s t ax . B e t wee n th e l as t o ffi c i a l to engage in that competition to which they are now return describing the amount l ev i e d f or th e ma i n - for ever destined by cheapening as much as possible that tenance of the poor, which was on the table when I ad- which sustains their lives. (Hear, and cheers.) I look, dressed the house on that subject in 1849, and the last therefore, to articles that are of prime necessity—(loud official return which is now on the table of the house, cheers' from the Opposition benches),—and if I find that there is a difference of nearly 25 per cent. (Hear, hear.) those articles of prime necessity are subjected to some When I look into the expediency of the course lam to of the heaviest taxes in our tariff, then I say that these take, that is a most important consideration. There is are arrangements inconsistent with the new system we no proposition I ever brought forward—at least, there is have established, and the new principles of which we no practical proposition I ever brought forward with have- approved. It is the boast of honourable gentle any chance of its being carried—(the right hon. gen- men opposite that they have given cheap bread to demon was here interrupted by some derisive laughter the community, but the principles upon which you from the Opposition benches)--I mean a proposition have given cheap bread to the community are prin which had any chance of being carried—a proposition ciples which ought to make you cheapen the sustenance supported by a large party in this house, because a pro- of the community in every form—(cheering from the position that is not supported by a large party in the Opposition benches),—and I think I shall be able to house is not one that has any chance of its being carried ; show to the house, that if they adopt that principle but there is no proposition I ever brought forward with of - finance, they will, in a legitimate manner, with respect to the establishment which, if it had been carried, out going out of their way, and without any arti would have effected so great a relief as the gradual ficial means, be giving the greatest possible - impulse diminution of time poor -rates. (Hear, hear.) Now to every branch of the industry of the country, and es e- take, for example, the establishment charges. The eially to those very branches that have most suffered by • establishment- charges for the salaries of officers con- recent legislation. (Cheers.) The house, • therefore,' netted with the administration of the poor are will not be astonished that her Majesty's Government somethi ng lik e 430,0,001. a yea r . Well, since 1848.49, are prepared to recommend Parliament to deal with the whe n th e l as t re t urn up on th e t a bl e was made, you have malt tux. (Loud cheers.) Here is a prime necessity of had, on an average, a diminution equal to the amount of life subject to a very high tax, and a very high, tax levied Your establishment charges. The return of the expen- under - circumstances which greatly restrict industry 7 dwiture for the relief and maintenance of the poor, which (Hear, hear.) lam not called upon to recommend the .. _as on the table when I addressed the house 'in 1849 change lam about to propose to the house to- hon. gen- Znwtn,ot the return for 1849, but for 1848—(hear, hear) tlemen opposite on any other plea than that which they t a , it was, of course, the basis of my general argu- have always declared to be sovereign plea-enamely,. the this s De . id the origin of the - feeling in the country on ben e fit of the consumer. Hon. gentlemen opposite have an ,„: l `23e x t. The amount was 6,180,0001. Now, the sometimes told ' friends of mine, when they ,have pro poor i: the nded for the relief and maintenance of the posed dealing with the malt tax as a. means of assi s tin g the table of i''ar 1851 —according to the last return on the agricultural interest, that it was only a con _ which I shall h r ouse, though I have a more recent one, sumer s tax— (hear, hear)—but lam sure hon. gentl e . 6,180,000/. w aa ef ul er ,g t 6 o 2 : o B u o b ol s . equently—instea c l of being men opposite will not oppose the plan of the Govern- Opposition) I (Loud cheers from the meat on that plea—(cheers from the . Ministerial on account of theadimianfraid that is really not a cheer benches)—that they will not get up and !tell me I from the Ministerial upo n of pauperism. (Laughter ant about to propose a change in the law which will . a cheer for recent olerp7Bsititliiisnr2 I am afraid it is only benefit the consumer, (Cheers and laughter.) cheering from the (Laughter, and some It can hardly be the effect of the dissolution 'of Parlia to disturb "recent legislation" -) Now, I don't want meat, it will hardly be the effect of the triumph of un n°on'te tl i glaire (a lah nd hear)—but restricted competition; that lamto be told by hon. your cheer is a very illogical lust show you—what I should gliter)—and I gentlemen opposite, on the first occasion when I pro becauseany cor zise have done, pose the remission of a tax, that it can only benefit the n I don't want to raise not Yon oven4y on the consumer. On the contrary, I give hon. gentlemen subject—that recent . legislation may "°L nave had any- opposite credit for the consistent and sincere conviction thing to do with this result. (Hear froin th (addressing the Opp' osition) think recent e 11inisterial that the interest of the consumer is the interest which . side.) Now you P ought first to consider. I have never disguised my leg,islat:on is the cause of the poor -rates in 1851 h av i ng and upon that you eh epinions on this subject. I have always told my friends been under 5,000,0001., cheered but I. that in 1846 the rates were rrttl 'hat thougitit was certainly the interest of the consumer then it so happens that the malt tax should he dealt with, still it was my less. (Laughter from the Ministerial side. Mr. 131/ ,' er opinion that there was no tax with which we could deal "With the same price of coin ?" followed by cheers G" think, thoughl don't if properly dealt with, would more benefit the laughter from the Opposition.) ericultural interest. (Cheers from the Ministerial side.) i some returns of the prices of 1 h I '. Ban d ::1 hi c h , . want to do it, I could proc. ace I,c , ri in eilios,,etocontihieoesteimwhithltWllolll ope hon, gentlemen opposite will notgrudge me few corn which would show what was the fact—one return, .>Lservatio a few for instance, which, when I quoted it, the late Sir R. Peel appears l toh have so that in t i l ) i g e said ought never to have been printed ; but there are -fuestion of the i l greater sul)jets for us to consider than the triumph of .I,spect 'silica th n e a t tax has assumed a totally different obsolete ' " • ° P I H-was- - (Laughter from the Oppositi , , on.) I it was Baia by on repeal of the corn laws. I know e who Justly looked upon one-sided free trade as an obsolete opinion, this house —one of very W as of great authority in just as you look upon protection and I ana lost in the the moment-you repeated gtrheeat authority with me—that -great principle of the day--that of unrestricted competi- malt tax was inevitable ; corn and laws the repeal of the tier]. (Laughter and cheers.) Now Imust put these no great difficulty in demons' sir,. I think there will be ' Acts berme the house, because the y are very signi c 4 . clear, when Ministers of . • State take every opportunity of informing the cultivator of the soil that he must grow as tittle wheat as possible, that the difficulty of maintaining the policy of a law which restricts the production of the next generous grain is proportionately increased. There is no doubt, when the tendency of your recent legislation is to diminish the production of wheat, and, in fact, to limit its pro duction to those soils which are eminently and na turally qualiafied for it, that the tendency of your legis lation should be, if not to encourage those produc tions which would be natural to the soil, now that wheat is to be relinquished, at least not to main tain laws which would discourage the production of them. (Hear.) Even as regards wheat, it is impos sible that any legislative means can be devised which would more. tend to the encouragement and support of the wheat land than in fact, diverting those soils that were improperly employed in the cultivation of wheat Muck to th original purpose. The more you produce burley upon. the soils qualified to produce barley, the viete you are improving the market for the production orthose soils eminently qualified to give us wheat ; and the indirect influence of any change in the malt-tax upon the production of wheat will be, in my opinion, very considerable., (Hea r , h ear .) Well, sir, we now have to consider, in the first place, how we shall deal with this tax, in what :manner and to what degree. If we deal with it in a In nail manner, we shall probably accomplish none of those objects to which I have alluded. (Cheers.) The consumer will not be benefited—the cultivator of the soil will Tiot be benefited—you'll neither have cheap beer, nor - will you have a freer cultivation of th e land of the country. (Hear, hear.) What you want is, that you shall have as much as possible unrestricted industry, anti'. its consequences, as far as the cultivator of the soil is, 'concerned, and that one of the consequences of that unr, 38 tricted industry should be that the con sumer should enabled to procure one of the main causes of his expendi iture, and one of the principal sources of his health an.. I strength, supplied to him at a reduced price. Thos. are the objects we wish to attain, and they appear t a us to be objects which cannot be attained if we deal in :a small manner with this great subject. (Cheers.) Ti Le existing duty upon malt is 2s. 74d. and 5 per cent. on the bushel. The consumption is increas ing. In 1;34:9 it was 38,935,000 bushels; in 1850 it was 40, 744, .900 ' • and in 1851 it we n t a little b ac k, an d was was 40,377,000 bushels. But, though increasing, there is no article. of counsumption which has less propor tionately in. zeased, and the diminution of the con sumption o„5 -which can, I think, be more clearly attributed to. the large tax levied on it, and to the restrictions which that tax occasions. (Hear, hear.) I know tbs'ere are gentlemen who 'have endea voured to no aiintain at times that the reason the con sumption of a ialthas not increased is, that the taste of the country has 1 wen directed to other sources of sustenance and exeitemei it ; but I think I could. show to the house, by a reference•Lo general statistics on these subjects, that that is a. position which c anno t b e ma i n t a i ne d. Well, sir, under filet to circumstances, her Majesty's Govern ment think it t heir duty to recommend to the house that the reduction' of the malt tax should be considerably diminished—a tat we should diminish by one-half the amount of the present duty on malt. (Hear, hear.) The sum which ire . have to deal with, is a sum which exceeds 5,000,0001. ri regards the revenue, and we propose that we shall diminish the duty exactly by one-half; we pro pose that there should be paid an uniform duty, of Is. 3,1 d. and 5 per cent. per bushel upon barley, and also upon here andib igg; we propose to t erm i nate t h e diff erence in the duty which has been injuriously and improperly maintained bet. seen malt raised from barley, and from bere and bigg: and. w e propose also to do away with the draw back in Scotland upon spirits produced from malt. That drawback ha s already been renounced by Ireland as unnecessary. It was recommended by the commissioners on excise inquiry as one winch should be terminated whenever ark , ,T considerable reduction took place in the duty upon m.-Qt ; and I think I shall have no difficulty in showing to. the house, when we come to points of de tail, that this? 5s a change which ought no longer to be postponed. (He ar, hear.) Now, allow me to read to the house, the reoommendation which was made, in the year 1831 I think, upon the subject of the malt duty, by a distinguished member of this house, Sir Henry Parnell, who was, I 'believe, at the head of the Royal Com mission to in quire into the Excise, and to whose la bours we are indebted for some of the most valuable documents in our Parliamentary library. (Hear, hear.) Now, these words are very interesting when we remember the circumstances under which they were written. Having entered into a general statement of the grounds to show that the most effectual. mode of sup pressing illicit malting would be by a reduction of the duty on malt, he - went on as follows : " But if tt:e importation of foreign barley be not per mitted, the to ndency of a reduced duty to increase the con sumption of malt would be counteracted by the price of British barle: T becoming higher in consequence of the new demand for it, which would arise from the duty having been lowered ; and thus the consequence of a reduction of duty-would: 7be, not such an increased consumption of malt as would k eEp-the revenue up to its present amount, but a higher price of barley, and a certain loss of revenue. As, therefore ) there is no probability of a reduced duty being foil uwed by such an increased consumption of malt as would prevemt a loss of revenue, so long as the importa tion of for e!gn "barley is restricted, we are of opinion that it will be proferable to endeavour to check illicit malting by the enforcement of (the Excise laws, however inadequate they may 13.3 to 'produce a complete remedy, rather than to try the exp eriment of stopping it by a reduction of duty. If there we re no factitious cause for elevating the price of barley, ails ing from the direct effect of a duty en foreign barley, or i rom the indirect effect of duties on other kinds of foreign corn, we should not feel any hesitation in saying that the prope r way of dealing with the malt duty would be to reduce it oz le-half." Those well) the words of Sir Henry Parnell. Practically, he said that, if your corn laws were repealed, he recom mended ye u to reduce your malt duty one-h a lf—(h ear , hear)—tha , too, is th e opinion of a gentleman as tender of the revez me as any gentleman who ever spoke in this house. Those circumstances, which he possibly did not contemplate , have occurred ; you have repealed your corn laws, and I ask you now to sanction the recommendation made by Sir _Remy Parnell at that time. " For," says he : " Nothing, in our opinion, can be more unwise than to re duce duties en articles which are fit subjects of taxation, without at Vie same time taking care to secure the most abun dant supply .that is possible to be secured of the materials which are nee essary for their production." Well, you, have done that. The circumstances which he anticipated ;have occurred ; and now I ask you to adopt the measure ;which he recommended. (Hear, hear.) Mr. CAYT....E Y—ls that the report of the commissioners that you have quoted from ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--Yes ; the report of thu commissioners on the Excise Inquiry, of which Sir H. Parnell was the chairman. The report of the commissioners also recommended terminating the draw back on malt In Scotland. That is at present Bd. per gal lon; and, of course, if there were a reduction of the duty by one-half, it would only be 4d. per gallon. But here is the report of committee on the Spirit Duties in Ire land high price, we have ended in importing more than 70,000,0001 b. in one year, and every year at a cheaper rate. (Hear, hear.) These would se em t o b e f ac t s i n the face of which it is very difficult to believe that the production of tea can be limited. A production so immensely increased, and always imported at a lower price, appears to be one the supply of which cannot certainly be likely to fail. But in the year 1834, I think, or shortly after the passing of the Reform Bill, when the trade with China was opened— when the charter of the East India Company was about to be, or had become matter of discussion—it was a l ways urged by persons of authority, against opening the trade with China, that we should be greatly disappointed in what would occur, because, the supply of tea being limited, it was quite impossible that there could be any reduction in the price. The supply of tea was then, I think, about 30,000,0001 b. per an num . N ow we had, last year, im ported the unprecedented amount of 71,466,0001 b., our consumption being, in round numbers, 54,000,0001 b. It is quite clear, therefore, that the importation of tea is still greater than our consumption ' and it is also quit e c l ear that the duties which ex i s t, w hi c h are nearly 240 per cent. per lb. check a cons um pti on equa l t o th e i mportat i on. (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, when we look to the gradual increase in the importation of tea ; when we look to the broad fact that 30,000,0001 b. under the restricted trade have increased- to 71,466,0001 b. under the freer trade, though subjected to a colossal duty ; when we look to all the evidence before us, and to the gradual diminu tion always of price, we have a right, I think, primd facie, to conclude that there will be no difficulty in supplying the demand for tea in this country. But, Sir, her Ma jesty's (overnment, in dealing with this important subject, have not deemed it consistent with their duty merely to depend upon their own conclusions, formed from books, and their observation of what occurs around them. They have an opportunity of consulting those who are great autho rities on the subject, who, by their foreign residence, their particular study of the matter in question, and their na tural aptitude to form conclusions on such subjects, should be entitled to guide the judgment of any Administration. They have applied to those who, locally, were th e b es t ca pable of formin g an opinion —though, of course, to form an opinion on a subject in a country like China is much more difficult than in some other countries. Nevertheless, we have now some knowledge of China ; nevertheless, there are individuals who are very competent to guide even a Government on such subjects ; and, after bestowing upon this question the most laborious investigation, and having omitted no efforts to obtain the most accurate information : having suggested every means and every test by which that information could be brought to bear, having even personally had the honour and satisfaction of conferring with some peculiarly qualified to offer an opinion on the subject—her Majesty's Government have arrived at the conclusion which ) to use the most moderate language I can command, may be thus expressed—that there can be no prospect of any want of a supply of tea to this country. (Hear, hear.) It is under these circumstances, sir, that we have varnined this question. We must remember some facts of importance ; we must remember that since the year 1841 the annual increase in the consumption of tea in this country has been 1,727,000 lb. There has been a gradual - increase from 1841 of the consumption of tea, even at a duty of 240 per cent. That increase during the last few years has been much larger. During the l as t s i x years, without an y re d uc ti on of duty, it has been nearly 10,000,000 lb. In 1851 the consumption in round num bers was 5 4,000,000 lb. ; in 1844 it was 44,000,000 lb. In considering this subject, it was i mposs ibl e t o s h ut our eyes to what Qs occurred in respect to the consumption of sugar. (Hear.) The consumption of sugar in the year 1844, the year immediately preceding the great reduction of duty, was 4,129,000 cwt. ; in 1850 it was 6,200,000 cwt. —(hear, hear)—and in 1851 it was nearly 6,600,000 cwt. —(hear, hear)—showing an increase in the first six years of about one-half, and in seven years of considerably more than one-half, the duty having been reduced in the proportion of 25 to 10. In dealing with tea we are of opinion that it would be perfectly vain to attempt to make any difference either between black and green, or between any qualities whatever. (Hear.) We are persuaded we should only involve ourselves in great trouble ; we should not attain the object we all de sire, and in this question, as in malt, or any ques ti on o f a similar kind, b o ld ness is the wisest course. (Hear, hear.) I mentioned before, we were not of opinion that the reduc tion of duties on articles so far . of a similar character that they both tend to the sustenance of the people in the form of beverages, at all interfere with each other. I do not know any more striking case than the case of coffee. I think that in 1808 there was little more imported into this country than 1,000,0001 b of coffee. The duty was then considerable. It was changed—it was much lower; and, in 1809—and remember what our population then was, as compared with what it is at present—the importation was nearly 10,000,0001 b. But simultaneously with that in creased consumption of coffee, the consumption of tea has increased, and we are now consuming 37,000,0001 b of coffee, while, as I have just shown, last year we consumed 54,000,0001 b. of tea, and probably we shall not consume much less - than 57,000,0001 b in the year ending the sth of January, 1854. Under these circumstances, availing our selves of the experience which dealing with the sugar duties has given, following a precedent which I think has been so successful—(hear)—we think the proposition that we ought to make to the house—a proposition which I believe in every way is a safe proposition—should be one in its cha racter of a complete and comprehensive nature. The pre sent duty upon tea, with the 5 per cent. added, is 2s. 2d. a pound. Without making any distinction in the qualities of tea, we propose that we should reduce that-duty is a pound—(loud cheers)—and we propose that, following the example of the sugar duties, that reduction should take place during the term of six years—(cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter)--that in the first year there should be a reduc tion of 40. (Laughter.) I think hon. gentlemen, whe n they have refle c t e d f or a moment, will find that they are too precipitate in their laughter, because we have to consider two things, —we have not only to consider the revenue, but also the consumer who seems to bo quite forgotten. (Hear, hear.) There is not the slightest doubt that if the state of the re venue allowed you at once to reduce the duty to is. a pound, you would probably find the greater proportion of it would not be to the advantage of the consumer ; because, although I have great confidence in the produc tion of Sea in China, although I know that China is the most populous country in the world, without stating how many hundred millions may be there, and although I know that tea is used in every part of China, and that the quantity exported is comparatively a very small part of that which is produced and consumed in China, and although I kno w very well there is a surplus left f that quantity in China, still I am perfectly aware that if there is a sudden demand in this market, and you have not taken the usual and prudential care and consideration upon which all trade must be conducted, you will not find the consumer benefitted in the manner you desire, while at the same must suffer. (H ear , h ear. ) I t years to mak e a t ea t ree, and that is a timeae three the or revfeem4e point to be considered in dealing with these duties. If you want to increase production, especially of such an article as tea, you cannot suddenly go with a demand for which they are not prepared ; but, if you take the scale which her Majesty's Government propose—a very mode rate scale I admit, but I believe a very safe one—l think, with very slight injury to the revenue, you will ultimately ob arti pr tain that cheap and superior arti c l e w hi c h you would tea •i desire. Of likcourse, immediately dealing with an ar ti c l e of s not e dea with cles of ' domestic oduce, which are subject li to ng different conditions. But what we propose is, that there should be an immediate reduc tion-Pound in the duty on tea, red uc i ng it a - pound - and to is. 10d. I mys e lf p u t th e in crri;eamseo2dfs.42:l(. fa consumption at a very slight figure. I ns t ea d of '4,000,000 lh.; upon which the last January revenue was ql5 house, a l 2 e n h more t h t quantity e t a t probably which the t h r e e amountv put, I only put 60 ,000,0001 b. for the first year of the reduced t duty, being an increase of 6,090,000 lb., but virtually not than 3 ,000,0001 b. ; because, as I have told the the last ee t n a s k am en p in tie J e an e i f iaz a , consumption of tea has so much increasea on the for this year will be 57,000,000 lb. Therefore, virtually, I inly calculate upon an increase of 3,000,000 lb. at the re duced rate for the first year. I think when we take the erevenue w f s average of a great many years, we shall naturally arrive at an increase of 2 ,000,000 lb. a year. This is .not an exces sive calculation. I think the reduction we propose is one hat we could Make with perfect safety to our finances, as I will show to the house when I sum up the changes which the Government have determined to recommend. I pro pose, then, in regard to tea, that we should immediately reduce the duty 44d. a lb., and that every year it thould be reduced 2d. until it arrives at is. I believe if you adopt that system you will very little injure the revenue, —that you will gradually enable the people of this country to have a supply, at a very reasonable rate, of a ver y favourite beverage; and that you will do more than that —that you will give a great stimulus to the commerce, the shipping, and the manufactures of this country. (Hear.) Ido not know of any measure more calculated to give a great stimulus to the commerce and shipping of this country than dealing largely and extensively with tea —(hear, hear)—and a lth ough I m i g ht h ave b een gla d to offer to the house a project with regard to this duty which, upon one branch, might be of a more favourable character, vet, considering that the financial year is not closed, and other circumstances, I am persuaded we have taken a prudent as well as a bold course ; and that, if the House tempts our proposition, they will have consented to one of the most important operations, and sanctioned one of the most important measures ever brought forward to stimulate the commerce of this country. (Hear.) There is one duty I am about .to deal with, which is connected with this branch of the subject, and which, perhaps, I ought to have adverted to before, and that is the hop duty. (Hear, hear.) We are unwilling to make this effort to give cheap beer to the people without dealing with one of the important ingredients of that beverage. (Hear, hear.) The house is aw are there aro two duties now levied upon hops. There is the old duty of the time of Queen Anne, and there is the war duty imposed during our great struggle. Those duties are almost equal in amount ; in round numbers, without the fractions, they amount nearly to about ld. each—(a laugh) —and what we propose is, that the old war duty —a Very unpopular duty—a duty hich ought never to be continued, should be remitted. (Cries of " Oh, oh!" and laughter,) At present we do not propose to take off all. Something must be left for future statements of this kind. (Great laughter.) Still, I think, in reducing the hop duty one -h a lt and the malt duty one-half, and reduc ing the tea duties immediately considerably in the pound, and establishing machinery which will bring it down to ls. a lb, it cannot be said we have been unmindful of the claims of the community, acting on the principle of unrestricted com petition. No w , s i r, t h ere i s one p o i n t of som e i mpor t ancewhich I think I ought to touch upon. We are raising the revenue of this country, and recommending all these measures on the principle that the revenue of this country shall mainly depend on the consumin g power of the pe o pl e. B ut it / ias been said of late, it has been rumoured about with considerable vehemence, that the consuming power of the people is rapidly diminishing. Some modern economists-- I speak of th ose statemen t s w hi c h mee t my own eyes in many quarters and in many places—say that the consum ing power of the people is in a state of rapid reduction ; and I think I am only doing my duty in calling the att en ti on of the h ouse to that subject, for it is ono that very much agitates the public mind ; and it is the duty of the house to instruct itself upon a subject of so much importance ; for, if Wat is true, certainly the principle upon which I am now recommending these measures is erroneous and mistaken. Now, sir, no evidence reached ine which in any way makes me believe there is the slightest foundation for saying the consuming power of the people is diminishing. (Hear, hear.) I apprehend the statement, that the consuming power of the people is diminishin g , is founded upo n the emigration that has taken place from this country; and that is a subject to which the hon, and learned member for Wolverhampton called my attention the other night. There is no doubt that, if we look to the returns of emigration, there is a greater amount of emi gration from this country than is counterbalanced by the births that take place in England and Wales. In the year 1849 the emigrations were in round numbers 300,009; in 1850 they were 280,000 ; in 1851, 335,000 ; and on the Ist of Octobe r , 1852, the last return I have, that is to say, in three qu ar t ers o f a year, they are in amount nearly equal to the whole of the year 1851 —namely, 332,000. There is no doubt also that the births of this country, in 1851, were in round numbers little more than 600,000, and the deaths were 400,000, So it would seem That it is the opinion of this committee that the repeal of the malt drawback in Ireland will not be prejudicial either to the trade in spirits, or to the revenue, in that country." That was in 1842. In consequence of that, the draWback in Ireland was terminated without a murmur. It has given general satisfaction, and I am certain that the repeal of the drawback in Scotland will prove equallk successful. (Hear, hear.) There are many points in the report of the commis sioners of Excise Inquiry as regards malt which are well worthy of the consideration of the house. They particu larly dilate on the length of credit which is given in that trade. They show the vicious principle on which that sys tem has been established, and they recommend that the credit should be limited to the samedura.tion which applies to all other excisable articles. I confess lam not prepared to give unqualified adhesion to that recommendation. I think it is of the greatest importance that in all these changes the particular trades involved should be disturbed as little as possible ; and though I think that the princi ples laid down in that report are sound principles, and that ultimately we should look as much as possible in this country to diminish the system of long credits, which is not adapted to the principle on which our commerce is Conducted at present, but which is the result, I think, of paper currency and warm speculation —still, at the same time, I think it would not be wise unqualifiedly and entirely to adopt the recommendation " of the commissioners in this respect. We pro pose, then, that on th e 1 0th of October next the malt duty shall be reduced one-half. We have fixed on that period, of course, after due examination into the question when the change could take place with the least incon venience to the trade, and, as we believe, with the m os t general benefit to the commun it y, and the 10th of October is the clay on which We have fixed. On that day we pro pose to take the stock on hand throughout the country, and of course we shall guard those who are then possessors of malt from the competition, as far as the one-half in the amount of the, duty is concerned to which they will be subjected, and for that, stock in hand they will receive a drawback in proportion to the reduction of the duty. I do not know that this is the convenient moment at which _I should attempt to place before the house the effect of these - changes upon the revenue. It will probably be more convenient that at a subsequent part of my state ment I should place the effect of those changes before the house. (Hear ' hear.) I - will, th en, once more, merely re capitulate, for the sake of clearness, what the change is. We propose to reduce the duty on malt one-half ; wo pro"- pose that there shall be no difference between the duty on malt raised from barley and from here and bigg. This will occasion some accession to the revenue, though it is notfor that object, but in order, to simplify the subject as much as possible, that recommend it to the house. We propose to put an end to the drawback allowed in Scotland on spirits raised from malt; and we propose that the reduction shall take place (an the 10th of October next, on which day the whole stock in hand throughout the country will be taken, and a drawback allowed to the holders of that stock pro portionate in amount to the reduction of the duty. (Hear.) Well, sir, following the principle which I have laid clown, vill body afrordofthcon sumers, emost the that in the present state of affairs we should cons id er our taxation believingrf iin legitimate, the surest, and the most efficient means of al as th i a t t reg th a a r t ds potlihcey great another branch of the question. I have shown you th a t relieving the industry of the country, I proceed n ow t o by the manner in which we propose to deal with the malt tax we benefit largely, as we believe, the consumer ; but i n doing th a t we thi n k th a t incidentally—and that was only a secondary purpose—we are giving great facilities to agri culture. Now, Sir, I come to another branch o f th e sub ject. I come t o d ea l w ith an ar ti c l e as popu l ar w i t h the people as malt, as much a necessary of life, and subjected to a much heavier tax. lam about to recommend to the house to deal with tfie tea duties. (Cheers.) Sir, I know the prejudices that exist among a certain class of persons on the subject of the tea duties, but, having had occasion to look very mu c h i n t o thi s question, Ihayo been as tonished to see the rise of opinion, the gradual forma tion of opinion, on this subject, now almost one of para mount interest in this country. (Hear, hear.) I hardly know anythhig more amusing than to open " Pepys's Diary," where we see it stated—" Took a cup of the now China drink—very pleasant"—(laughter) —and to remember that not two centuries have passed, and that exotic novelty which pleased one evening thalf antastic gentleman is now the principal solace of every cottage in the kingdom. (H ear .) Well, sir, the great objection which has been urged at different times and by persons in authority—for I think it right to state a case of this kind as fairly as pos sible—is, that in dealing with tea we deal w ith an ar ti c l e o f limited production. te it is that Mr. Pepys had his cup of the " new China drink" —true it is that since cer tainly the commencement of the last century, when only 500,0001 b. of tea were imported into this country at a very I beg the House not to suppose that I have read this as any other authority on the subject, but I feel that is neces sary that the sentiments which I uttered in the financial statements I made to the House six or eight months ago should be kept clearly before them. I also said : " We deem it our duty to impress upon the committee and upon the country the dangerous course upon which they have embarked —to impress upon them the Absolute necessity, now or in another Parliament, of arriving at s)me definite under standing on what principle the revenue of this country ought to be raised. They deem it their duty to denounce as most pernicious to all classes of this country the systematic reduc tion of indirect taxation, while at the same time you levy your direct taxes from a very limited class." • Now, sir, I cannot say that subsequent experience has changed or modified my opinion on this subject. (Hear. hear.) lam clearly of opinion that, if we have recourse to direct taxation, that direct taxation should be as general, at least in theory, as indirect taxation ; that, however, we may in practice, find it expedient in some cases to make exemp tions, the theory that a plan of direct taxation can be based upon a large system of exemptions is one which is most pernicious, and ought to be avoided. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, sir, I venture, in offering t o th e h ouse the views which her Majesty's nisters entertain with respect to the property and income tax, to lay it down as a general prin ciple that, in considering this question, we ought to make our direct taxation in theory at least as general as indirect taxation. And, sir, when I consider the very large exemp tions which are connected with this tax, there is one which I am bound at once to notice, and take into consideration, and that is the exemption of Ireland. (Loud cries of "Hear, hear !") Now, sir, when in the early pait of the year I proposed, on the part of the Government, that this tax should be continued for one year, I made no reference whatever to Ireland. That was avowedly a mere tempo rary arrangement, and it was therefore quite unnecessary to enter into the discussion then. But, having now come to consider the question more widely, I do not think it consistent with my duty to evade expressing the opinion of her Majesty's Government on the subject. (Hear.) Sir R. Pe e l, i n hi s fi nancial statement of 1842, when he first introduced the property and income-tax, proposed to im pose on Ireland, as an equivalent for the property and in come-tax, two other measures,—the one was an increase of the duty on spirits, which, I remember, he estimated would produce 250,0001. a year, and the other was an increase of the duty on stamps in matters affecting property, which he estimated would produce 160.0001., making altogether 410,0001. a year. That was to be the contribution of Ireland to the revenue in another form, and as an equiva lent for the exemption from the property and income tax. Now, on e wou ld naturally like to be always taking off taxes, and never r em i n di ng any gentleman that he had not perhaps paid those which had been expected of him— (a laugh)—b u t it was necessary to inform the house that the measure for increasing the duty on spirits had since been rescinded, in consequence of its having been found to have stimulated illicit distillation ; and that in 1841, before the passing of the Property and Income-tax Act, the aggre gate receipt from the stamp duties was 470,0001. per annum ; while in the year 1852 they produced only 486,000/., so that Ireland had contributed, as an equivalent for the Property and Income-tax, instead of 410,0001. per annum, as was expected, only 16,000/, (Hear, hear.) Well, Sir, but notwithstanding all this, it is impossible to be insensible to what Ireland has gone through. (Hear, hear.) When Sir Robert Peel brought forward the Income-tax, in 1842, it was impossible for him or the most experienced statesman, to have foreseen the long catalogue of calamities which awaited Ireland. (Hear.) Almost every cause that could exhaust and every process that could debilitate a country and society has been brought to bear on that unhappy land. I freely admit, to use—not a classical, but a frequent epithet—that as regards its financial condition, Ireland since that period, or at least during many years, has bee n i n a very except i onal state. But the st a t e of Ireland is happily not now without a ray of hope. (Laughter, and cries of Hear, hear.") As far as I can form an opinion —and I can assure my Irish friends that I have taken the utmost pains to make myself acquainted with its condition—and I think I may venture to speak of Ireland without using the language of de spair or the accents of desolation—(cheers)—you have had a crushing poor-law ; but what is your present position with regard even to that overwhelming evil: Is it not more endurable ? (Hear, hear.) Permit me to place before the house a return of the present incidence of poor-law taxation in Ireland. I don't want to- insult any gentleman by showing him that his country is not ruined. (Laughter.) lam only anxious, in fulfilment of my duty, to convey, as far as I can, a cor rect view of the state of her Majesty's dominions to " her faithful Commons." (Hear, hear.) Now, I have here a " comparative summary, in provinces, of the expen ses in curred in the p oor l aw un i ons of Ireland during the finan cial year ending September 29, 1850, 1851, and 1852 re spectively." I find from that document that the poor law expenditure in 1850 amounted to the enormous sum of 1,320,0001. ; that in 1851 it was reduced to 1,129,0001. ; that in the year ending the 29th of September last the ex penditure, which in 1850 was 1,320.0001., had been re duced to 855,0001. I also find that the decrease of ex penditure in 1851, as compared with 1850, amounted to nearly 200,0001., or at the rate of 14 per cent.; that the de crease of expenditure in 1852, as compared with 1851, was In amount 274,0001., or at the rate of 24 per cent.—that the decrease in the expenditure of the year 1852, as com pared with 1850, was in amount not less than 465,000/., or at the rate of 35 per cent. lam sure, when one has this authentic return before him, he isjustified in not altogether despairing of the condition of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) In Connaught alone I find that the diminution of expenditure in 1852, as compared with 1850, was no less than 116,0001. — or at the rate of 48 per cent. (Cheers.) Now, sir, in looking to the condition of Ireland, I must call the attention, of the hou se t o a d ocument before me, because it completes the picture of the incidence of poor law taxation, of which we have heard so much. I don't deny that our friends in Ireland have suffered from the severe incidence of taxation. I admit that they have gone through a terrible ordeal • but I say to th em, as I say to the West India interest, "What I mean to do for you is with reference to your present con dition, and not with reference to the past. (Hear, hear.) Now, here is a document which reached me just before I came down to the house, and which completes the picture of the state of Ireland with reference to the poor law, of which we ha ve h ear d so much, and from which Irela n d has suffered so severely. It is addressed to me officially, and is as follows : from these returns that our births exceeded our deaths by 200,000 in the year 1851 ; and that our emigrations exceeded the superfluity of our births by considerably above 100,000 ; but, if these facts are a little examined, —if they are a little analysed, it will be found there is no foundation for the conclusions that have been hastily drawn from them. In the first place, the re turn of our births, marriages, and deaths is confined to England and Wales ; in the second place, the amount of our emigration is small—two-thirds of it is from Ireland, a country which does not figure in the returns of our births and population. Then we have to consider the different causes that have produced emigration from Ireland and emigration from England. Emigration from Ireland is pro duced by a social system that has broken to pieces. (Hear. It is produced, I may say, by the misery of the people. The emigration from England is produced by causes exactly the contrary. The people here were never better off, but they have foreign inducements that act upon their spirit of energy and enterprise, and they are determined to seek even better fortunes than they experience. That is the first point—that is the great difference between the causes that have produced the emigration of the two countries. The emigration from England is, in fact, only 100,000 a-year, while there is an addition of 200,000 to its population. There is nothing, it would seem, excessively apprehensive in the fact that our emigration, stimulated by the higher aspirations of man, and not occasioned bya sense of misery, so far affects our population that 100,000 persons quit us, while the natural increase of our population is 200,000 ; but even if there were 200,000 or 300,000 quitting England, I could not view emigration, under such conditions as those under which the emigration from Great Britain takes place, as a source of weakness to the country—(hear, hear)—or in speaking of the finances of the country, as a source of the diminution of its consuming power. (Hear.) One shrinks from paradoxes upon a subject so grave ; but my own opi nion is that it has a tendency to increase the consuming power. (Hear, hear.) Every emigrant from England generally becomes an English colonist--(hear, hear)—and an English colonist becomes an English customer—(hear, hear)—and our markets are stimulated, our people are em ployed, and their wages are improved by the very circum stance which some regard as the source of our diminished power of consumption. (Hear, hear.) But even if I look to the case of Ireland, where emigration takes place under conditions so contrary to those of England, I am still obliged to arrive at a similar conclusion. Have hon. gen tlemen remembered what the state of Ireland was a few years ago ?—have they forgotten that memorable document the Devon Commission ?—have they remembered that description, which.circulated throughout Europe, of there being in Ireland 2,400,000 paupers—that more than one third of the people were receiving no wages of any kind— that they were living in hovels, littered on straw, feeding on dry roots, and often on seaweed ? That was the description given by Royal Commissioners, under a Royal Commission, of a great part of the people of Ireland. Well, then, you have got rid, in a certain de gree, of that population. It is no doubt a dark passage, a gloomy chapter, in the history o f any country, that such events should occur; but I am only looking at in a financial point of view to-night. I am bound, in bringing forward measures, such as, on the part of the Government, . I am bringing forward, not to omit a matter of such vast interest, upon the truth of which the whole of this subject depends. It is of the utmost importance—the whole ques tion is the consuming power of the people of this country. But, although we have lost in Ireland more than one million and a-half of the population, has the revenue of Ireland suffered a diminution in proportion to that loss ? On the contrary, the revenue of Ireland never very sensibly diminished. (Hear, hear.) Between the year before the famine and in the present year there has not been a difference of anything like half-a -million. I believe in the former year it was very little more than 4,7000,0001., and—l am sorry lam trusting my memory on the point—it is now, I think, 4,000,0001. and upwards. But it is in a very buoyant state. I take the case of Ireland because we are there apparently in a state of disadvantage ; and all this shows that the consuming power of the people does not depend on their numbers, but on their condition (hear, hear), and lam persuaded that if the exodus, as it is called, of Ireland continues, it will end even in Ireland being a much richer and wealthier country, and that the consuming power of the people will not only remain, but will increase. (Hear, hear.) But, as regards Great Britain, the emigration that takes place, instead of be ing a source of disquietude and alarm, is, in fact, the means by which the wealth of this country will be greatly increased ; it will have a most beneficial effect upon the people that remain ; it will develope their resources, and give opportunities to many who never before enjoyed them, and the general result will be beneficial to the re venue. And not only will the consuming power of the people increase, but also the population. There is one point connected with this subject of great importance. There is an apprehension entertained by some persons that there is an unnatural rise in the rate of wages. Great authori ties, I believe, are of opinion that the rate of wages is increasing so rapidly that the rate of profits will not only be diminished, but destroyed. Now, lam bound to say, that in pursuance of my duty, I have made inquiry into this subject; but I have not received any evidence of the extraordinary rise of wages of which I have heard. (Hear, hear.) I believe that there has been a rise in wages, and I believe, moreover, that it has been ver y muc h t o the public benefit ; and that, if it continues, the public will be still more benefited. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) One thing, I think, is clear—that the consuming power of the country has not been diminished by the rate of wages rising. But, sir, although the rate of profit depends upon the rate of wages, that is not the only element in this great question. There is another element still more important in its solu tion, and that is the rate of interest. (Hear, hear.) The employer of labour m a y p ay more for his work—l hope he does ; but the employer of capital is obtaining that capital at the present day at a lower rate, and with a facility which no employer of labour ever before enjoyed. (Hear, hear.) Sir, the hon. gentleman the member for Wolver hampton (Mr. Villiers) said to me the other night that the discovery of gold, like any other article, had given activity to commerce, but no more than any other article ; and lie called upon me to meet him upon that point. I did not think that that was exactly the night to go into that question, but I deny the position of , the hon. gentleman that the discovery of . gold, like the production of any other article, has given activity to commerce, but no more than any other article. I maintain that it has not only given increased activity to commerce, but that it has influenced the commercial operations of this country to an extent which no other article ever has done. (Hear, hear.) I say that the discovery of gold, considering the currency which we possess, has established credit in this country in a manner which no political econo mist could ever have imagined. (Hear, hear.) I say that it has increased and confirmed credit in this country, and that that increase and confirmation of credit has, of course, immensely increased the employment of the people. In my opinion, it is a mere blind and obstinate prejudice to shut our eyes to that conclusion. (Hear, hear.) But there is another question to be considered in regard to our pros perity at this moment, and that is, will the present low rate of interest last ? I hope it will. My opinion is —though it is, perhaps, imprude n t i n me t o g i ve it—my opinion is that, whatever imprudences may occur, and I need not say, that I deprecate them, but, notwithstanding some imprudence, the present ra t e o f interest will con tinue. (Hear, hear.) I believe that it depends upon conditions and circumstances which have never before prevailed in this conntry—upon natural circumstances and permanent conditions—and that, if we only act, with to lerable prudence, with such advantages as we derive from a low rate of interest, arising from natural causes, this country has an opportunity before it of material progress such as never occurred before to the vision of any states man. (Cheers.) The committee will remember that, by the remission of taxation which I have proposed on. the part of Government through the measures which I have attempted to place before them, there will be a reduction If revenue to the amount of between 3,000,000/. and 1,000,0001. sterling. I shall have occasion hereafter to place the items more particularly before the houie • but in the meantime, .I d es i re no t to involve you immediktely in any large amount of figures. But, by the remission. which I propose in the. malt tax, there will be a reduction of income to the extent of 2 , 5 00,000/. ; by the reduction on the tea duties an immediate loss of 400,0001., and ultimately much more—probably 1 ,900,000/, and by the reduction in the hop duty, the revenue from which, as you are aware, is fluctuating, but th e average of Whß•li rdfink may be taken at 300,0001. I have in fact proposed a reduction to the amount of something between 3 ,000,0001. and 4,000,0001. sterling. But I must remind the committee that although this is only December, in a few months one of the princi pal sources of the revenue of the country will terminate, and that if they support the propositions of the Government they must not only encounter this great remission of taxa tion, and, consequently, some great diminution of revenue, but they must likewise be prepared t o d ea l with the consequences of a law expiring which now gives us more than 5,000,0001. sterling per annum,—l mean the property and income-tax. (Hear, hear.) It will become the duty of the house, then, to decide what they will do with the property andfincome-tax. (Hear, hear.) Now it has always been to me, as I am sure it must be to any gentleman, exceedingly disagreeable to read to the house anything I may have said on a previous occasion ; and I am quite sure that nothing would ever inducajme to do so by way of authority ; but it is absoliitqy necessary that on the present occasion I should preaume to call the attention of the house to some remarks which I made on the subject of direct taxation when I laid before the house last session my financial statement, more especially as many gentlemen are now in the house who were not then members. (Hear, hear.) I then Called the attention of the house to the difficulty with which the revenue of the country was raised. I reviewed the objections which were made to indirect taxes in the shape of Customs' duties and Excise duties —and lat last showed that, although there had long prevailed an abstract opinion in favour of direct taxation, yet all attempts that had hitherto been made to apply it to the raising of our revenue had only led to the conclusion that it was contrary to every prince of science a n d j us ti ce. (Hear, hear.) I then said, speaking of th e comm i ttee of the House of Commons then sitting, and whose opinion I naturally referred to with reserve, as they had not then made their report to the house,--I then said : " You may remember that, in September last, the sum of 30,000/., heini , the greater portion of the balance of the Irish Rate-in-Aid Fund, was appropriated by the Treasury to the liquidation of the debts of certain unions in the west of Ire land, subject to the condition that any union assisted in this . manner would thenceforth be considered as excluded from the list of distressed unions, and that previously to such re lief being recommended, the Poor-law Commissioners must be satisfied that proper provision would be made by rates for the future requirements of the union. A report has been this day received from the Poor-law Commissioners describ ing the proceedings taken by them under the above instruc tion, from which it appears that all the unions affected by this arrangement, except the -- Union" (I forbear men tioning the name) " have given the assurance and struck the rates as required, and that the reluctance of the guardians of the does not arise from inability, but from a desire to transfer a 'greater share of the burden of their rates to the public." (Laughter.) I don't wonder at the laughter of hon. mem bers, and that is the reason why I did not read the name of the union. ("Hear, hear," and cries of " Name.") " This declaration of solvency, in respect to all the re maining unions of Ireland about whose power of maintaining their poor any doubt remained, is a fact of great importance, and you may think proper to advert to it in your financial statement. The object of establishing a comprehensive and complete Poor Law in Ireland has been finally accomplished, and the whole of Ireland is now able to maintain its own poor, without external pecuniary assistance from any quar ter. There is still a balance of the rate-in-aid left of upwards of 12,0001., which will be more than sufficient to meet any more than usually distressed cases of particular electoral divisions." _Lear, hear.) Such, then, is a picture of the condition of Ireland. I don't say it is perfect. Don't let my hon. friends from Ireland suppose that I am malignantly mis representing them, and that I am not doing justice to their calamrties. All I ask th em t o a d mit is, that having gone through great difficulties and borne them like men, their position is very much improved. That is all I ask. (Hear, hear.) But there are other reasons why there has been some discontent evinced that Ireland has not been subjected to the income-tax. People are discontented that instead of getting 410,000/. from Ireland, as was originally expected, when the property and income-tax was imposed on this country, they have only got 16,0001. (Hear, hear.) People, too have been not disin clined—although I confess it is churlish—to forget the sorrows and calamities of Ireland; but there are other complaints of a very different character, with re gard to not extending the income-tax to Ireland. (Hear.) The Governor of the Bank of England has made an official complaint to me that at the present moment the Bank of England is prepared to purchase terminable annuities, but that it is impossible for him to contend with the Governor of the Bank of Ireland, in consequence of Irish funded property not paying the income tax. He says, " I have no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be receiving deputations from injured interests, but there is really no body more unjustly treated by recent legislation than the Governor and Company of the Bank of England by the property tax not bei n g extended t o Ireland." There is another point of vie w in which the subject ought to be considered. The amount of public funded property in Ire land is increasing yearly, and has for a long time increased, in consequence of its not being liable to the tax which the same description of property has paid in England. I mention this to show what a difficult thing an income tax is based upon exemptions. (Cheers.) Now, Sir, I shall venture to treat this great exception in the following manner. I do not think that it would be wise to treat with any harshness the landed proprietors of Ireland. They have suffered severely from the late famine, and I should be sorry to pounce on Ireland and to say " You shall pay your quota." I think we ought to do everything that is possible to assist that " wise, just, and beneficial" change that has taken place in Ireland. (Laughter and cheers.) And Ido not think that it is expedient that we should throw any ob stacles at the present moment in the way of the regenera tion of that country. (Hear, hear.) But I mus t say thi s, that, rem em b er i ng what her Majesty's Governments have done for that country, I shall feel it my duty, when I lay before the house my schedule, in which I intend to recom mend them to undertake the reconstruction of the new income tax—l shall recommend them to extend the income tax to funded property in Ireland, and to salaries in that country. (Sensation.) Sir, an hon. gentleman a friend of mind, with reference to this subject, asked me the other night whether her Majesty's Government were pre pared to carry into effect the recommendations of the House of Lords with regard to consolidated annuities. I have the opportunity to-night of stating that the amount of consoli dated annuities is 240,000/. per annum, or something like that sum. Sir, the house will recollect how the consolidated annuities came into existence. There was a-loan made to Ireland of nearly 10,000,000/. Subsequently that loan was reduced in amount to about one-half. I was always one who believed that that loan was in a great degree advanced for an imperial calamity, and that it ought to be consi dered in that light; and I do not object to the arrangement. then made in any sense whatever. But the house will understand that the balance of that loan, on being re duced by that amount, was thrown into the fern of Con solidated Annuities, which were calculated with reference to the peculiar circumstances of each case. I m us t re f ra i n from ent er i ng i n t o th e discussion of this question, but I think lam not free to avoid all allusion to the subject. I have shown to the house to-night that in 1852, as com pared with 1851, there has been a diminuti on i n th e charge of poor-rate in Ireland of 274,0001., and that this is a sum considerably greater than the whole amount of the Conso lidated Annuities. (Hear, hear.) And I must beg my hon. friend who asked me the question to recollect what I have said with reference to those persons who in England are suffering from what they consider the unjust incidence of local taxation. I have show:a that the reduction in the amount of pauperism is this year greater than the whole establishment charges, and I tell him also that in con sidering this question he must remember that the state There is another point on which I can speak with more :rankness in reference to the tax upon property and income. I have not presumed, and will not presume, to give an opi nion upon the justice or injustice of a change in the mode by which the assessment of permanent and temperate incomes is effected. But there is a point, I believe, on which the committee is so unanimous that their opinion need not be a secret ; and it is also, I believe, the unanimous opinion of the House of Commons, as . l am sure'it is of the comatry—nainely that if taxes of this character—if measures of direct taxation like the income-tax —are to form not tempolury but perma nent features of our system of finance, they cannot rest upon a system of exemptions. Well, but if they are not to rest upon a system of exemptions, do you augment the methods to which a Chancellor of the Exchequer may successfully ap peal for the purpose of raising revenue ? No doubt direct taxation is in its theory an easy, a simple; and a captivating process ; but, when you wish to apply that direct taxation generally, it is ast on i s hi ng th e o bj ects you encounter and the prejudices you create. Sir, to my mind —and I think it is a principle now pretty well established—direct taxation should be nearly as universal in its application as indirect taxation. The man who lives in a palace and a cottager, as consumers are proportionally assessed. It is not perhaps, possible that in direct taxation you can effect so complete a result—per haps it is not necessary ; but that, if your revenue is to de pend mainly, or in a great degree, upon direct taxation —if it is permanently to depend upon direct taxation, you must make the application of the direct tax general, is to me a conclusion which it is impossible to escape. No doubt, by establishing a temporary - measure of direct taxation based upon a large system of exemptions you may give a great im pulse to industry ; you may lighten the springs of industry very effectually for a time ; but —not to dwell upon the gross and glaring injustice of a system of finance that would tax directly a very limited portion of the population-Lbut look ing only to the economical and financial consequences of such a system, who cannot but feel that, in the long run, industry itself must suffer from such a process ? For, after all, what is direct taxation founded on a system of exemptions ? It is confiscation. It is making war upon the capital which ulti mately must employ the very industry which you wish to re lieve." of Ireland is much improved since °I V ? ) made by th e committee of the Hou se d hear.) Let me not be misinterpreted. tiol of he r M a j esty ' s Government to considert p ore ? Consolidated A nnu iti es, but they are nss6 themselv es i n any way by the reconll,,en oser, mittee of th e H ouse of Peers. The 1 " °- tsP, eider th a t question entirely on its ni eritsi oto , self prepared, and I will su b m it to th e s i SI I tions which I have carefully consiless; believe are j ustified by the circurnst°, St' l beneficial i n th e i r operation ; but 1 ueTesioo not to go away under the false i n l P o 41 Government i s prepared to carrY recommendations of -- the committee " v i Lords. With regard to the incense 4 3 ( sisQ o I have laid down one principle—th s " should be as general as indirect taxation, eel sure of direct taxation, founded upon siq o o exemption ought not to be tolerated• d that important measure, the property have stated another principle which h er to . Y. ment are prep are d to assert, and that isrecosoo difference between p ermanen t and Pis 10 e s (Loud ch eers .) Si r, I will n o t enter in -( 0 upon that subject at present. Althone e es,, my observ a ti ons as they h ave oc curred „ s i s lts;" topics which I h ave had to encounter, 5' is much that I must still advert to' tiii„) would be impossible that I should ' t j 0 11 :s discuss a subject which deserves, top fill receive on the part of the House of C°'l B - 0 0 0 and mature deliberation. My cl, ai l f , g o's exposition of the policy that her P" are prepared to recommend.; an d in 01 do is t o pl ace t h at before the 11°17 , e y an` i manner as I c an . Vi ew i ng the prels e ce with reference t o th e t wo pr i nc i p l es 1 ha to e t. 58 that direct taxation ought to be in its u,9'tote sty indirect taxation, and that it ought in s "„ssall' upon a system of exemptions ; and, ses . ; s 4l ference should be recognised by the s si s o realized and precarious income, I Wi", s it's i v / house the rate of duties such as her .3 1 se s0 „ 4 0 1 are prepared to recommend to the adopti on (Cheers.) Sir, notwithstanding the 10, ation which her Majesty's Government' " - tise s ll a remission of taxation immediatelyaral tis s esti l and eventually re li ev i ng th e consume r t he greater extent, it is not the intention eache to recommend an y i ncrease in any of al s 0 property and inc ome -t ax. (L ou d c heers sides and st a t e t o th e committee the sod we think it i s expe di ent to recognise 3110 • 141 shall r ecommen d that on all industrial in eo c o, s. o s tions shall be limited to incomes below 1 ,1 being the poi n t a t w hi ch we consider thatpr lps t r oi the calculation; and while we assert PI tbe s e ii just, we are prepared to recommennd t u s 3 ,l o ls,' l o should commence at industrial incomes s ' e ptill' i incomes arising from property, we'take,",. tion at 501. a-year. (Hear, hear.) I,1 5 1 ; ° ice :PP to the house the rate of difference wu lc ij,P , oo should be established between schedules h are the two schedules of realised propertY., - ` n s c o :o, the committee that we do not propose ,'ewill payable in schedules A and C. r opl heretofore, at 7d. in the pound. w e lis v o, l I rate on the other schedules shall be es"! t fourths of that rate, and therefore 1 es (which will be exactly three - fourth s) ' B, D, and E. The produce of ach ec of:" will be, as b e f ore , 2 , 649 , 0 001. The prod' lce t i3 the farmers' sc h e d u l e, w ill b e estima t e d in We take the estimates of the profits of farr j oi s yl half the rent, as heretofore, but at one"" j ihsy, We have investigated that subject, and °f l a in active trade may be, the whole tendency 0 , 3 been to a diminution of profits, and we ar that the test of the farmers' profits has beel h i s i ilr (Cheers.) We h ave t a k en, therefore, one the measure of profit, and not one-half ;.,i,6 , 00j; under schedule B, the farmers will pay I, s e exactly one-half what they pay un der t v :4 it From schedule C, I calculate that the re he dsYSl 746,0001. at 7d., as at present. Under se m yssi mitigated rate, the estimate is that 1,16 2, W ceiyed, and that under E, also, un d s , er t s l,V rate, 248,0001. will be received. The v- 4,91 schedules. will be, 'it is estimated , . 5 0 1 estimate the increase—if the ex e mption, 1 1 ,101/ comes under 501. upon property, and unoe dustrial incomes—l estimate the increase !te e d9 But I think it right to say that in tha t c ierto taken into consideration the position of th e is has not more than 1001. a-year. The - is placed, in the manner in which the is extremely severe, and I nay say Is He is rated under schedule A at the hi a Dissenting minister who has 1001. under the scale of salaries in the mitig, have an advantage. The position of fact, the - position of a person working from the nature of the property from sources of his maintenance, he is depri of the mitigated schedule. And, thei to make special provision for him, berm assessed under schedule A. I b' probable diminution from this sours at 30,0001., but I have taken and it will not affect the figures down, of 5,361,0001., as th e pro d uce I add for Ireland the modest sum of 60. The total sum will be about 5,421,000. ing, I think I may say that the general probably the property and income-tax the average that is produced by the Perhaps it may be advisable for me to - some slight diminution but, general); average will be about that of the last present tax. And, if the house proposition, I think the result are affect our financial income. Assuminl that the property and income-tax as I fore the house will not affect our Budg( now necessary for me to approach the which the diminution of the revenue oct sures that I have recommended on ths e ve jesty's Giwernment may be met. It is n ofoi me, however , before I enter upon that, and , reference to a subject of great interest, an ssess 4 have increased the public expenditure. V' t , O P will be my duty on a very early occasiontx fore the , house a supplementary estimate t he diture of the coming year with reference to . . 58 , defences. (Cheers.) It will, of course, be ne' oo , usual financial statement for 1853 - 4 .to mak e slt: sf ; which I shall have to place before the house 4 into consideration the w h o l e expen dit ur e of t? 00 If therefore that will be the more convenienocv advert to that subj ec t. I k now th e great kiske delicacy 'of touching on a subject of this cna my mind the difficulty is much increased , I ' ar o cacy becomes much greater, by a prudisq h of reserve than by speaking to the house wl u pOli frankness with whi c h I s h ou ld address the,.l.ljt to formal occ as i on . (Hear, hear.) Sir, we are au °u o s/ no inconsider a bl e increase to the estisnat eB l s sA ie s be met with the questi on o f peace or wa r. to ssi is, that th e measures w hi ch we are going t° t o r liament, and which we have the confident llop pe y a ce` ment will adopt, have nothing to do sc ith s e rs lP ;(elsi, (Hear.) We should have brought them 1_ 0 11 . .,e,/ any circumstances, and I believe that those ' 1 ,110 1 ,0', ceded us, or those who may succeed us, v O l, l e 0 , 3 0' 1 1 same manner. (Hear, hear.) When we ea ss tiOr we found the estimates for the year already p ,"VesP, e ,s9 we accepted them ; and, as there was, a g - s se"os t Y standing that they were the estimates of ourf e si they were passed without being canvassed , i 0 1'11 1 the progress of public , business was facilits s h jeci appeal to the people hastened. But the st A tioVV , I that necessarily engaged the attention of the 7 tb , ,, was one also that must engage the attention ° ty ment. There was no question what dr A tt s v alve's ( the throne upon the other side of the Ch? sto e s hi not turn upon what may have been said or (woe ?V that the attention of the nation was drawn t o w s or e 0 i the national defe nces . Th a t a tt ent i on was di's T he by the highest milit ar y au th or it y of the land. ratio o being so long at peace was brought to the atd o ssit e 4s most industrious people in the world. It was s ee° 1,0 attention whil e a ll th e t en d enc i es of the as'oe. those that sec ure t ranqu illit y and happy of on e sori that there was no p an i c or precipitation, bust ' t sis trary, a prejudice against what the people v dllo supposed to disturb the dreams of r epose a t be ;Ai in which they indulged. But sooner or later kei t 0 ,6 1 afloat, and seized the public mind. It was ti 0f,80,7 more into consideration, and, totally irresP ecul v elnW circumstances, the nation arrived at the coot this country was not in that state of defence as 0f 1 034f. sirable. Theyarrived at the conviction that it s t v l(i (It . s , importance that the shores of this country s P i e te.. tc Y t t tected, and that its defence should be cerSissrgi (e,l hear.) If I were asked, on the part of her to 4, vernment—in no other way would I Pr es / O a t opinion —what I thought was the tendency ° eB set/ s s, age, and what the general course which P r a se, ti eltY stances indicated, I should say without res, ha ti o e i " rrom the bottom of my heart in all sincerity , ' 0 OW the predominant feeling of the present day peace. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") But I beheld her Majesty' s Government are going tos' sn of o r e Parliament will tend also to the preserva,ti.v,,,s hsl hear, hear)—and, on considering this su".1;;, ifo general election, we felt it to be our au . s 'o. s ' s sitsl! time in recommending the necessary ut r e '',4, be a fact—and I assume it to be a f a c t ssa is our opinion —that this country is "sorltrY defended, and 'that it wants to be 1: 18s . O . A J I th e fended, let due preparation, we say, be t hol: l st if defence. On considering the question, we 00101 best thing .-was to do it completely. IN e s tsis,e), best thing to do would be to put the navy' 0 ' 0 1 0 5 Kill in the position which we believe all Englishin e fe see it in —(hear, hear)—and the plans we iti o ll` and which, if the house will support our proP tsp os jo y s be carried into complete effect, will be p1an. 5 ,.(1 " 08 t,„0 settle this question of national defence for eves all of (hear, hear)—that is to say, you will hav e a s d, si /S o s sends and strong points in the kingdom defen I se fibs l o s will have a real Channel fleet, which can assq is ! i s different rendezvous when necessary, and 'whl t s so, n ;fer he jf per garrison and protection of the country. t to ° 8 been convenient for her Majesty's Governme n l sob flo t is question, as they would, if they had not felt t he , re ii es' (1 1 paramount duty to bring it at once bele ef ts is ,0 0 of Commons. They were busied with„ 1 1 ) e ,)30;11,' tendency of which, they believe, will 40 1 ° iot) time to reduce the expenditure and the e ' 8 09 of the country. But they felt that it r i3 lo o V ei s impossible to mix up a question of this hu lsion, s o r , ' l 'So from its nature, of such urgency, with que eouu% tc tO ministrative reform. They felt that, if t he ,. e j s es l / 0 .1, not properly defended, aqua if the people ci ts;Ys'' properly defended, the stion was one Which v eis, ; ; once to be completely and definitively.settle c o to taken those steps which we believe will insure : t or sa he ebe defence of this country. It will be necessaryJl not o f .5 , for a supplementary estimate. I hope therel es ill sateCo difficulty raised on ,the part of the house. 1 . - ;,`,,, e sfe' r ese ( o finances, as I shall show in a few minutes, wipotfthe flea thorise me in asking a supplementary gr ant esn s s lot , 0 year, to be supplied from the ways and ';' s :„: 10 Yossg year we shall ask your approval of an ists:, ll . i n ep increase our general estimate about 600, 1 ju v : sk its f,' s f e :l, the committee that it will be my duty t d °,.. nre of fit , { a supplementary estimate of the expen on Ast_s,,Vorot which has occurred since the ApproPpa ti cao aurNia rot r think it will be convenient if give s pies, 01 1(4 . the state of the finances, so that the const a rl . the ent .tro an opinion as to what our surplus will Ir at o.:ajt!,ll present financial year, from which the 0r t T e ' e xSe,'lo P: 5 ,1 afforded for the supplementary estimate! 7 01 , 0 0 o trel itio of the year since the appropriation. The wh en , 0 0 0 , recollect that in the early part of the yeal. _ id the to estimate what would be the surplus, -I-Z tevi c . l , l . would be 460,0001., but, in making that :sss,„„nsfst.: so , d' nounced my intention of asking a vote t 4 .7, s orn' s tj tional for the Kafir war. The committee 74, 1 2 collect that on a subsequent occasion I cans uv L 0/ .7; :o , Lo 0 , .e pow' -s Dal, he un f a ir. ‘ 3 ,10,, highe st st gbera i l /. [crated seh .4 01 1 ( 7f a cle be ... 4_ 0 .. for s e ,0 Lw d f"e rive ° i 5 erefore h e al 0.1 cause s,i;„ have e ij l Ceundetis that IDI b 9 which iD :e of the 60,00 01 ' 01 O. G ene 4 1 ' 1 ' Ed re sult x w ill s b s A Present e f ig Ina ke Pl ,rallY fl'? st thre e . a 41,1 should , Dui(' n ° 4 lo have 1164 1 4 i' get of tb e pl e ? Si. wayseJlbl , 3CitSlOllOO/ 11.'1 he p 3 r t e ,„' .v,, THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVEN ING, DECEMBER 4, 1852. It: Rl4 gre tha it