The Sun. — London, England, 1812-07-14 00:00:00

it 1 7, 13urdett) had some systeTriatie d6ign in ° l-14 : 3 1:4,the Bill. it was plain enough, though 'v'ts certainly false enough; that , the systematic imputed to him, was one hostile to the k., onstitution. lie had 6ut•One design—to keep t "=t!lr. the Throlie and the People, and to get a SVSi..III hi that House inimical to . :111ati.ever been, and such ever would -be tke -Leinatic design of his political. life. With re - to what had 'been said of thaiiberty of the ued,.that if any man had 'a right ". thus far shall -it go, and, no further. 3" i)erty of the PreSs .was at an end: For dif nen would of course view in different lights er, iineof boundary.. In his ,opinion it flee and unlimited- discussion of.. through the medium of the Press, be elicited, Even the veryca e.Press contrilauted to that great oh woyel that the Press was Unshackled. that an injury done to an individual should ,be as, 'severely punished as tined by an indivichial in-any other he conten:led, that by trying to 'put e Press, as it respected :public affairs, t was defeating their own - obje•Fr, and g a narrow and p 'mistaken system of' errin:r, credit on their calumniators. ii 61e, reprobating the Manner in %100 toitti,trltiee. had been formed, perceiving eport afforded no reason for departing ished lacy, convinced that it Would safe and efficacious to adhere to oberving that by that law a' great num the. recent ofknders had actually been pu lais:it,.; 11 ( 'S J , :: A t ~`l~r J;e taair. ~~ [j;'), ZS e that t t Ise, i f ,1 1,1.1 more 1)-.. , _7d being informed that -the disturbances t healse.ves; tf they had not completely subsided, ,_ w ere very much moderated, he .should feel duty to vote against the second reading of the 1 30 - `Mr, SMITH explained. ANT declared, that in voting for the In.e-asure befor e the House, he shonld not deem himself ouilty-of any innovation on the Constitu "u-• He siipported the Bill, not because he thought that the exigency of the occasion .re iluired any departure Clam the principles of the Co nstitution, but because he thought that it re rqired t h e exerc i se o f t h ose powers which, though rmant, Were inherent in the .Constitution—be cause he thought that it required the assumption " those energies whiCh helonged to the Consti tution, and were as essential to it, as the minor and ordinary qualities of every day's - practice.— " 7 1 the necessity which .called for the exercise of tl 'ese powers, and the assumption of these ener - pies every y rite must be- allowed to form his own t) Pinion. But' he confessed he heard with ,sur- Prise the de c l ara ti on f rom th e H onoura bl e Gen ttercian, "and ti n e .Honourable Baronet Opposite, th at they . could ; perceive nothing in the recent 1 7`'ents • which manifested that' necessity. In iy ininible Opinion, there were on the'face of the I.tepoi-t. of the Secrer Committee 'proofs of the ex l'tence of a regular and organized system of insur rection'--proofs of a league entered into by a num .2r 9f men, whose conduct was marked by an degree▪ ming of prudence and foresight—pi r - ofs of societies essembled . for 'the most mischievous Purposes, - and bound together by oaths of the most s'ol - inn and serious description—proofs of fife laineniable effects of sitch a system, operating.in ' 7 =ty the' most fatal, and the most deeply to be. autented. A system which was, at that very mo n:lent raging in the heart of ',the country. The aCt "es were still at work ! The 'conspiracy was atilt aliVe ! And were Parliament, under such cir nual...3tanees, to be told that no legislative inter . f eter.ce was necessary ?—Of what import in the :cohsiieration of this Bill - was the origin of the evi l ? If it had originated in the distresses 'of the distri cts in wh i c h i t h a d prevailed, yet in its pro -tress its aspect had been materially changed. He c ould easily conceive, that the desperation which - Luger and the want of employment Must occa ,_';nn, might, in the first' instance,, have urged • ~,L ne .e):..usnerated 'and unfortunate, though to the destruction of that :..I'.'acJlMeryfrom which alone they could derive their 'uture support ; but when he heard of a regular • a nd extensive. combination occupied in the of arms, in the acquirement of military dis , in the administration of oaths of mutual ' adherence, lie could not :but believe that the cha taeter of the proceeding had changed, that other' moues of th:iiking been introduced, that other Passions had oeen inflamed, and that the whole had assum e d a d ee p er an d a moire daifgerous ma n,suancy. When, therefore, it appeared that the spirit of mere riot and misrule which prevailed in t he first instance, had,so changed in itself, or had b "ell so converted by the craft of designing lad - viduals, as to.wear an aspect of -a very differ-eat nature, it became the House, .in their delibera tions on the subject, to regard rather the existing ci rcumstances, than their origin. But evell-were • t . l ,ke present st a te o f thi ng s a ttribut a ble solely to "e discontent in which it originated—were no ' ' 3 l !iter c ons id era ti on mingled. with the had would be unjustified, when the disturbances ilad arrived at such a height, ,in concluding the Present Session; and separating for the summer, proyidiiili the means 1w which those dis turbances mi g ht.( as he 'trusted) be effectually re ' Pressed. .It had been said that the revocation of the Orders in Council, and the consequent de nand for our manufactures,. would gradually di minish the discontent,- and restore tranquility.— But he entreated.theHou6e to recollect, that. ef fects alw a y s surv i ve d t h e i r:caus e—h e entreated a, • liouse . to recollect, that after the moving in:- Quence. had ceased, the machine still..for a time "Cut on--he entreated them to 'consider how far t he. mere subsiding .of the _agitation, the mere I '..,,cking of the waves into a calm, might yet affect .. t ie public pe a ce an: l we lf ar e.. This would be a s ubject i, fo r grave d e libe ra ti on , even by t h ose w h o t Ou ght that the recent events were to.beascribed 4.11 one simple cause. • This wits . not his opi.7 ion. Pte was pel-suaded that _other motives had been Rdcled to the original and inspiring one. 'He ap pealed to the House whether these confederacies ,these nocturnal assemblies, • so strange to were circuinstawes . .mider which the b een could be left with safety.? But they had told that the existing, laws were adequate to v le Occasion. How' were they so ?: Did. they nthorise the Magistrtes inuriediately to disperse ii 41 aWful and tumultuaryasseniblies.?pid' they au- -I)\>, tltorise 'the Magistrates in the first instance, and without any deposition, to seize arms,when it was suspectedtheywere used for'MischieVous,Purposes? By no means. The - very individuals upon whtise conduct it wAs asserted that the existing laws might be made sufficiently to Operate, laugbed at them ; and under the 'protection of their incf ficiency, pursued-their system All that Was .re quested was to give the Magistracy the. means of meeting the occasion as :it stood. lie repeated that it as not proposed to 'introduce any thing ne.w--any thing unknown to the Constitution ; but solely. to call into exercise those powers be longing to the ConStitution, exercise of which necessity denanded. It "Ma s the Constitution which he invoked: He invoked it in behalf of themselveS—he'invOked it hi behalf of the men Whose lives were . in' jeopardy-Lthwedeluded peo ple who, under the treacherous guidance of de signing and desperate individuals, - were in -dan ger of being hurried into excesses of the most cri --minal nature ; to" assume the energies which be longed to :the occasion ; to - overtake the rapid march of crimes, to whose speed the slow pace of ordinary justice was not equal—and to arresr in its progtess the careei . of - Sedition and anarchy. These Were principles - not . now fin the first time - broached. They were principles which had al ways been recognized by our ancestors. They Were principles constitutional, social; and univer sah They were principles Which Itad•built - up our freedom, and which botnid it together. They were principles wnich- 'operated in all places and onall societies, whether of individuals or of whole nations. Mr. FRAN'KLAND would trouble the House but 'for a very short period; lest he should weaken the effect of the admirable address which they, had just heard. His vote would be founded; on• the report of the Comntittee. Objections had been . made to the mode in which that Committee was constituted: it was nevertheless conformable to all precedent. Objections had been made to the character of the report. On what ground? Had they stated occurrences which had not happened ? Had they inferred motives which did not exist ? Having no superior information, he -consider ed the report as authority, and was persuaded, if the House did not act on that report, they would betray their country. On the principle of the Bill, he doubted whether, strictly speaking, they were not 'unanimous; on many of its provisions differences of opinion Might exist: he himself might not approve of some of the provisions ; but this would be a subject of consideration for the Com mitteeon the Bill. He confessed that he had en tertained serious hopes that the ferment would ere this have subsided'. It was his opinion, that from. time to time, a moral, like a physical epi 'dernic, passed across the world; and that from, causes as invisible in the one as in the other, some obstruction' in the circulation, -. or some in flammation, produced an, irritation, which, mixed with other considerations, required the exhibition of poWerful mediein,es.-it Might appear a ridicu lous illustration, but it was a mst one. All writers on political experience concurred in as ststing the existence of these occasional dis eases. When they occurred in • any country, they were watched by - every foreign enemy who, observing, probably from a want of prudence,. an increase in the disorder, availed himself of ex ternal applications still further to exacerbate it.— Such has been the diseased state of the country. But in the. midst of all the evil, the noble and affecting picture whieh the conduct of our Manu facturers exhibited in continuing to employ their men to the useless accumulation of stock until their last shilling was,eXpended, made him' proud of being a member of such a community. 'Re verting to his former image, he observed that this was not an ordinary state of the body politic, and therefore that ordinary (bet and ordinary t-reat inent would not agree with it. The ordinary law in such an extreme case was insufficient.. It was inhuman, for it would not prevent crimes of deep dye. The power delegated in times of public danger to the dictators, was the salvation of the liberties of the• Commonwealth of Rome. reign war was an evil comparatively insignifi cant. Civil discord, by removing all restraints, shewed how miserable human nature could be, when to the, horrors , of unrestrained animal 'passions we added those of depraved reason. This . fever or madness of discontent had seized on part of this country. An alterative must be adopted to remove it. It was a political axiom, that in all countries some persons would be found con ceiving that they did not possess. power and in fluence, or other good of fortune. • Let change be moue as frequently as frequently .as they might, disaffection and discontent. must somewhere exist. It was the duty of the Legislature, when that_dis content burst into. action, to use severity for its suppression. By a due performance of. that duty it might make itself feared, but would not make itself i7.aced; it Would prove itself the physician of the State. Far was he from thinking of the situ ation 'of the unfortunate people whose conduct thus loudly called .for legislative interference, without pity; and to she* that he really enter tained the greatest commiseration for them, he f•-.tigest;:tl that it might be, advisable, on the pass ing. or . present BA,. to issue a Royal rroc,la mation to all those whO,:un to that period, had offended against the laws already in existence. — This union of retrospectivelenity and of prospec tive severity, might be productive of the happiest effects. He should certainly• Vote for the. second reading of the Bill. • • - ' Mr.liaotternw commenced with compliment ing the speech of the Ifonourale• and Learned Gentleman .(Mr: Finakiand)„ which,.holvever, he felt himself incapable of _describing.; it was too learned for a!speech, and too long for a prescrip tion. -• If indeed-it was .a prescription, it was long enough to physic an hospital. He should not fol-• low . the Honourable Gentleman through the whole_inaterialnedica 91 his address, but differing from, him a3.far t_t .. s be -.understood him, lie had no' hesitation : in saying . that the remedy would , be worse than the disease,- He then proceeded to coMpliment hiS Honourable - Friend (llr. Grant), who had spoken last but one, with a degree of talent, which must have afforded great pleasure to the House as it did to hi-tn (Mr. Brougham), but which must have surprise:' the House more than it-did-him, accustomed-as:he was to witness the display. of his talents in, other places.: 'At-the same time be differed From his Honourable Friend, who appeared to hint to Wave-taken up:the subject upon grounds that were too. ,general, as those of the Honourable 'Gentiernan . : 4*re too scientific. The real question was, whether the report COR tlined matter of sufficient inomentto justify the IL .ise.in a suspension of-the Constitution. He could see nothing-in that report but vague gene- 1 rality, and his Honourable Friends, so far from correcting that error in their speeches,. had not adduced, a single fact to assist the House in com ing to a decision upon its merits. lie congratu lated another Hotiourable and Learned Friend of his (Mr. Stephen), on his te-anpearance, bat thought he would have rather a difficult task to make out, that the disturbances were not owing to the distresses, after a few facts which he should ,beg leave to address to him. He should refer him not to the facts in evidence before the kfouse, though they bore strongly upon the point, but to the communications which were Made to an In stitution..set up- a few weeks since in the metro polis, far the relief of distressed manufacturers ; from these it would appear, that the distresses, if they did not produce the whole, had a great and visible share in- the production of-the disturbances. On looking into the correspondence addressed to that Institution, from no less than twenty-two counties, they would find this truth asserted by all; they would find that at Bolton-on-the-Moors, in Lancashire; out of 4 population :Of seventeen 'thousand, three thousand were paupers, and it so happened, that there- was no- playa, in which so few steps were taken to afford relic to those who suffered. They - would also find, that in the neigh bourhood of Huddersfield, where the distress was, if possible, greater, the attempt to relieve it was impotent in the extreme. At Walton ) in tht. neighbourhood of Preston, no less than MOO per``'', sons were relieved, andabe consequence was, that every thing there remained peaceable and quiet.— These were his grounds for thinking that•the dis tresses were connected with the disturbances.— To allude once again to the elaborate 'allegory of his Honourable and Learned .rrient who had talked so muchof-effects surviving their causes-, he would recommend him to adopt a suggestion Of common sense, and allow a little time for - the operation of the medicine. He then read sonic passages from letters, illustrative of the tranquil lising effects already produced by the suspension of the Orders in Council. The Bill, he contend.= ed, was 'much more calculated to interrupt than to facilitate the cure of the disturbances, and he had obtained information from those who ,had been examined at the bar of that House, which led him to doubt the Magistrates. He alluded to Lancashire, not to Yorkshire; and to - one indivi dual in particular, whom he should not name., That worthy Magistrate had given it as his opi nion, that the discontents could never be allayed until the present race of disturbers was swept into oblivion.' He next quoted the cases of a-Dissent ing Clergyman, who was accused of being present at the burning of i a mill ; and of a Methodist Clergyman,. who was-taken from his pulpit by eight Dragoons, as proofs of the violent proceed ings on the side of Government. He would not intrust to the hands of such men, an enlargement of magisterial powers. He entered. at some length into an argument against the system of employing' spies, which existed at present to a blamable ex tent ; and deprecated it, as tending to send per sons about not in quest of information, but with a determination to excite what they could punish. The acquittal of Hayes, Who was tried in Lan caster, was a proof of this, for be was,acquitted on his own plain statement, that the very spies Who appeared as evidence against him, compelled , him to go to the meeting. He mentioned the instant - es of a Schoolmaster, and a woman, who were both committed: for having insulted spies, and ,stated that the persons employer in that ca pacity had thirty" shillings a week to reward their exertions. Another circumstance to which he alluded was the tampering; with evidence so as to endanger innocent men. He did not allude to • the wish to implicate his Honourable. Friend on the floor, (Mr. Whitbread) or the Member for Westminster, or a much more humble person, himself, but to a reputable Manufacturer, one of whose journeymen, while in prison, was encour aged by a spy. toinform against his master, though that journeyman had previously told him that he knew nothing to his disadvantage. He did, nut complain that the Magistrates were concerned this, but the spies were too busy . for the people: He objected to.that part of the. Bill whiclawent to give the Magistrate& a power to break, open houses at any .hour of the night in order to search for arms, and to.demand the arms, if taey were of opinion that they could not be defended ; he also objected to the third.power . by which the Gagging Bill was revived—that of entering and of dispersing all societies immediately. The power of search, as it existed at present, .was extended to a search for gold and silver, and the crime of hoarding money was prosecuted with greataeal. He then stated some cases of abuse in this respect, and maintained that the whole tendency of the Bill would be to increase it. —(ifere the Hon. and. Learned Gentleman was interrupted by loud and reiterated cries of " Question, question !" " Near, hear !" " Order, order !" a &c.)--He de clared he would not conclude one moment sooner on account of the anoise. which prevailed.' fie knew bow to appreciate that noise, and would not be put down b it„- 7 -(Hear, hear ! Question, ques tion!. &c.)-a-He now a concluded,, not having said one word less .than he . had originally intended to say. Nir. , BANxEs said, the last speaker, wanting arguments to oppose the Bill befOre the House, had tried-to 'excite a feeling of disgust against a body of men whom that . House. always had treat ed; and always - ought to treat with the greatest respect. He had said he. was afraid of trusting the Magistrates . with further powers, who had abused. what they at present possessed. He thought -this • censure was not ciserved by the' Magistrates. If the lion. Gentleman could make, -it plain, that the House, as it at present stood, was competent to remedy- the existing evil, he (Mr. Bankes) would have .voted With him ; but as that tlid not appear, the Bill have his support.' - .He contended that it was necessary and right to search forarms, when it was known that arms had been illegally seized. :He -thought tu multuary-'meetings- could not .be effectaally pit down, se Mto preterit evil- , -d'spriFed persons train- in g themOves to the use of arms, unless tae power proposed ita the 13.11 w,as given to trateS. The Learned Gentleman had traced the origin of the present dtsturbances, and found it in tlie:- . 4istresses of the manufacturing clasSes ; but • did he think that nothing Was engrafted on that which lead originated in those distresses ? Was' it not probable that those digresses had been taken advantage of by designing persons, for purposes hostile to the peace of the country ? lie then took a view of the courst of' proceedings resorted to, on the present occain, and rebutted the in sinuation that had been 'thrown Out, that the Se-. cret Committee lately . ballotted for had,been a packed ComMittee. The names that had appear , ed on it seemed to hits to be fair and unexcep tionable ; and if he had himself made out this list ; he did • not know that be could have formed one, in his own opiniosf; more competent and props;{ than that which the ballot had produced. 'With respect to the .actual state of the country, he would ask, did the Hon. and Learned Gentleman helie‘e in the existence of the unlawful oath If he did, could he think that many persons having taken the oath, - the districts in which it sVis taken could be safe ? It he (Mr. Bankts) were to blame Ministers on this occasion, it would be, hist, be. • cause they had not taken up this subject early enough; and secondly, because he was afraid the present measure would not prove sufficiently strong. He seas sorry it had not been more par. ticularly attended to before, and thought the dis turbances ought now to be effectually put down; or they would extend to other counties: With this feeling he thought it might have been wis:n. to • adopt stronger measures. He was happy to Awhile Bill in no way trenched upon the hoer 7 of the press. To curtail that liberty, he . hoped, would never be necessary, but_at the same time ht,i felt that it might become necessary, tinder certain - circumstances, to guard agaftist that which WAR one of the grettest blessings the country could boast, in the hands of the:good, beetiming a most pernicious instrument in'thehands of the bad. 'lle was apprehensive that the present measure's' 'Would not be found to . go far enough ; be Shetild, , how ever, give it his vote, in the hope that his fears would prove vain. Lord.Aurnoak opposed the Bill, The original cause of the disturbances being done away by the revocation of the Orders in Council, he thought such a measure as the ,present unnecessary but at the same time he wished it to be uuderstoot(, 'that he did not oppose it from arty apprehenstott that the Magistrates would abuse the power that might be entrusted to them. Mr. W. BOOTLE contended those Vermin," as they had been called, the Magistrates, 'were entitled to the favour and protection of that flode. Mr. STEPHEN observed, it bad been said by his Learned Friend, when he (Mr. S.) "entered the House, that the present disturbances had origi nated in the distresses caused by the Orders in Council. This.bad surprised him, as he had often heard the Hon. Oentternan say, in the course of a long:inquiry, which he (Mr. Brougham) had pro secuted' with himP \ 'iNfr. S.) that the distresses pro duet I by the Orders in Council, and the riots, had no connection, He (Mr: Brougham) had re gularly pat the questions to his witnesses, and the answers uniformly given bad been “ No,' the poor manufacturers, though suffering much dis tress, were peaceable and orderly ;" and he (Mr. S.) lead - had it in contemplation, to appeal to his Hop. and Learned Friend (Mr.. Brougham) for :be truth of this fact, in order to meet what b4a, been said by others on this subject. .He expressed surprise. at the opposition made.by the suffer ing manufacturers to the plan lately formed for the relief of the poor. He then went into an expla nation, of .his. conduct with respect to that plan, which had. nothing to do with the causes of the distress, but with-the distress itself. He believed the Learned Gentleman to have been grossly mis informed, with respect to the Magistracy of the county. If his 'argument on this bead was good for any thing, it went to prove that riot and sedi tion were to be permitted, becauie no num could be fovd in the country to-whom 'the administra tion _of the means necessary--to put them down could be entrusted. He wished to know wlit remedy the 11on.-9entleman would propose to ap :ply to the existing evil. The present disturbances, he maintained; had nothing to do with the Orders in .Council, nor with the Conventicle Act. Here he , bestowed .an eloquent entogium on those classes of persons called DisseAters. Instead of the Magistrates being what they had been repre sented to be, he was of opinion, that no body of men in any country deserved more of their coun try. The present measure was one which they could not, were they so disposed, abuse to any treat extent. - With the last speaker, he was in - dined to fear, that it we, not sufficiently strong but, upon the Whole, to him it appeared, that it was as constitutionally mild, and as well calculat ed to meet the existing „evil, as any measure h-a man wisdom could &Vise. He was surprised it the oppOsition made to this Bill by his Hon. an-1 Learned Friend. He should have expected to have found in him its staunchest advocate, as he lab4ired to exonerate those who suifered through the. Orders in . Council from anY participation in the late outrages. The measure was in his opi nion perfectly . constitutional ; but fearing as he did, that it would not go far enough, he should have felt it his duty to propose some provisions of a-stronger nature, but for the pledge given, thet Parliament would again be assembled it sada should appear to be necessary. Mr. LAUBE wished the Bill divided into two parts. - .If it were so divided, he should vote in favour of the provisions for putting down tumid tuary meetings, &c. but he should oppose tho-:e authorising searching for arms.. His objection to this was so strong, that, approving as he ci r.f of some of the provisions of the Bill, if it were still kept in one, he should pppose.the measure alto .gether. He was surprised the - Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Stephen) should pro nounce the measure to be constitutional; at least it was a temporary suspension of the Bill of Rights,; and however such a proceeding nii!r - bt be justified by circumstances, ,at least it i.vaaht ting that they should call things by their proper names. air. I'V ILIVRFOAGR would not have rise , 3, but