The Sun. — London, England, 1852-02-14 00:00:00

THE SUN any enactment which might be proposed to carry out that view. He trusted that the Bill would not be sent down to the other House without having the obnoxious clause IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 13. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. COUNTY COURTS EXTENSION. Lord BEAUMONT presented a petition from the solicitors of York praying for an extension of the County Coarts Act. IMPORTATION OF ARMS AND GUNPOWDER INTO THE CAPE COLONY. The Marl of MALMIISBURY moved for the re. tarns of all arras and gunpowder imported into the colony of the Cape of Good Hope, and for copies of all ordinances of the Governor of the colony on the subject. Since he had first mentioned this subject he had learned that a considerable trade ha d been going on many years in arms and gunpowder between the Cape colony and the Years. To this trade he thought might be fairly attributed the failure of her Majesty's arms in the war with the Ke,firs. It appeared that the trade was carried on through Natal and a port further north belonging to the Portuguese. The Secretary of State for the Co lonies had first learned this from the report of Commis sary-General Miller, and the Noble Earl had imme diately dispatched a communication to the Governor, which did him great credit. The Noble Earl was not the only public man who was ignorant of the fact—he was only one out of a hundred who did not know, and though, as the head of the department, he was respon sible, the great blame must rest on his subordinate officers for not acquainting him with the fact. There was a law in the colony certainly against this trading, bat it did not seem to have ever been put in force. He would not trouble their Lordships with quotations from the report which had been laid on the table on the subject of the Kafir war ; but it was quite evident that this trade had been going on for many years, and that the Noble Earl had been until very lat e ly entirely ignorant of it ; he wished, therefore, to know what means the Noble Earl proposed to take to stop the trade. It was evident that the steamer which the Noble Earl had mentioned as having been sent to blockade the coast would not be sufficient fur that purpose ,• an - 1 he would suggest that, since the slave trade had been to a great degree repressed, some of the 16 vessels of the slave trade squadron should be sent down for the purpose. Earl GREY said it was a notorious fact that a trade in gunpowder had for many years been carried on with the Kafirs. It was no fault of the law, which was suffi ciently severe; and when the subject had been submitted to the Executive Council in 1842, that Council had not thought it either necessarry or posaibie to add to their stringency, but attributed the whole difficulty of stopping the traffic to the nature of the country and the scattered population on the frontier. All the powder which had reached the Kafirs was smuggled through our own ports after it was larded there, and not before; and it was ut terly impossible to find any coast where smuggling would be so impossible.—(dear.) He believed it was necessary that every farmer on the frontier should be supplied with powder tor himself and his servants, to be used in their defence against men and beast. And when that was the case, did the Noble Earl suppose it pos sidle that when an ox could be obtained in exchange for a pound weight of gunpowder, which only cost Bd., that the trade could be entirely put a stop to? Such a suppo sition would he moat puerile. The Noble /lain asked whether means had been taken to guard the coasts. Now, he had conversed with Commissary Miller on this point, and that gentleman said he did not think that a pound of gunpowder had got into the possessien of the Kafirs which had not been land,cl openly at our own ports. There had been some, no doubt, introduced through the Portuguese settlement in Algoa Bay, but not to any great extent ; and the main supply of the Kafirs heel no doubt been obtained from Cape Town. With regard to the facility of landing on the coast, he was informed that there was no coast in the world where it was so utterly impossible to carry en an illi cit trade. Mr. Miller bed tot ntioned one or two points where a landing could be effected ; but there the diffi culty was so greet that a consitlersbe number ef persons had lost their lives in attempting to land; and he believed that except at one or two places it was im possible that gunpowder could be landed. On the west ooaat there were only one or two places where vessels could 'awl cargoes, and those must be small vessels, whtch would take their cargoes from Cape Town, and not vessels which would trade from Europe. He was assured, however, that that was not the direction in which the danger lay ; the real difficulty was to prevent the powder which it was necessary to import into the colony from finding its way into the hands of persons who would sell it to the Ks6rs; and if their Lordships would look at the ordinance lately passed on this subject at the Cape, they would see that it was entirely directed to that end. Orders had been issued, increasing the severity with which restrictions would be applied to that traffic, and which he hoped would be effectual. He had no objection to the returns moved for, but sug gested an alteration in their form, applying to the quee nly of gunpowder and arms exported from this country to the Cape. rather than the importation into that colony. Lord MONTEAGLE thought there was no doubt now as to the origin of the trade; it was clear that it had its origin iu Cape Town, and was carried slung the fron tier, the powder being sold by British merchants for the deatructioa of their fellow colonists. The moment they allowed the traders i.o cross the frontier, it was impos sible to prevent a trade in that which would be a meet profitable speculation. INF*jor Anderson and Sir George Napier hart, in their evidence before the committee, ex pressed their opinion that, until a stop was put to those itinerant traders in gunpowder, nothing effectual would be done towards a ditcoetinuance of the trade. After a tee , words fro in the Earl of MALMESBURY in reply, Earl GREY said that the collector of the customs at Cape Town had informed him that almost every pound of powder which passed into the colony went throweh the Custom-house. He repeated that he had no objec tion to tee returns moved for as soon as they could be obtained. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought the returns sought for ought to be obtained at once. Atter a few words from Earl GREY, the motion was agreed to. COUNTY COURTS EXTENSION BILL Lord BROUGHAM, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said he had introduced a similar Mil into their Lordship' house last session. That Bill, after it had passed the Upper House, had been sent down to the H use of Commons, and the alterations which had been there made were principally with regard to the mode in which the objects of the Bill were to be carried out, and were not of a substantial character. There was, however, one material alteration which the House of Commons bad introduced into the Bill, and that was that they had re-inserted the 24th eleuse, which their Lordships had struck out. Considerable difference of opinion had existed in their Lordships' House with re • spect to that clause, but eventually it had been struck out. The effect of the clause was to repeal a pro vision in the County Courts Act, which pro hibited th e counse l w ho practised in these courts from taking briefs from the suitors themselves, and requiredo th a t th e y s h ou ld be instructed by an at - trn e3h He had suggested to their Lordships that pro bably, in the County Courts, the same practice prevailed as in the superior courts, viz., that counsel were not in the habit of taking but from attorneys, from briefs the clients themselves, an option u sh e desirable thats. givene h a o ld we n v e erhhought that it was and therefore Bill. With upon the matter, wa s that he had inserted the particular clause in the there was no inflexible statute respect to the superior courts, statute law or common law which prohibited counsel from ataking briefs from the clients t hemselves, but they had always been prevented from doing so by a enxible usageor Custom which was called t h e etiquette of the bar. I n the ( t a king no counsel took a brief in courts, generally sp where ( in a cause unless he h a d been instructed by an ey—a practice which in m ost cases ho (Lora Brougham) approved of; but he thought that the same freeaom upon that point which existed in t he su p erior c ourts mi g h t to the Cou nt y Courts witho ut be extended any fear of its being a b use d. His objection to passing aaw which cou nsel from taking wou ld preven. a brief i n a County Court direct l y from a client was, that circ umstances might arise w he n the ordinary rule should b e d eparted from. The Bill which had passed the' ir Lordship& House •upon this subject, and which had been last sesstow Commons, might down to the House of appear from the numbsr of amendments which that House had made to have undergone considerable alteration.Hn That, however, House had adheres , was not the case, for the other The the substantial portions of tl5O Bill. .Noble Lord ill be read a second t coneluded by moving that the B be Lord CAMPBELL said he had always en a warm friend to the County Courts. He considered that their establishment had tended most materially to improve the administration of j us tice in this country. He ap proved generally of the Bill which his Noble and Learned Friend had brought in, and he would now come to the important part of the Bill, namely, the clause to which his Noble and Learned Friend had alluded. It had re ference to a subject upon which thehonour of bis ho (Lord Campbell's) profession materially depended, and what was of far more importance, a pure anministra tion of justice. The distinction between the functions and duties of an attorney and a barrister had prevailed from time immemorial —a distinction which he thought o ug ht to be preserved . It h ad been instituted, by the law, it was true, but by the usage of the profession to which he had the honour to belong. When the County Courts were established, it was felt that unless some po sitive enactment upon this subject were introduced great abuses would arise. With regard to the superior courts at Westminster, they were under such a system of dis cipline and superintendence, that the professional usage upon the point could be upheld and enforced without any legal enactment. It was foreseen, however, that in the County Courts that superintendence could not exist, and the nsgislature had cense quently thought it neces sary t o a pass law to the effect that a barrister should not appear in a case in a County Court unless instructed by an attorney. If the usage which prevailed upon this matter were allowed to cease to exist, the difference be tween a harrist, tr and an attorney would be done awa y with. There a class o f barristers who were in the habit of going about to public-houses and finding out sources of litigatio n h,i.n crder to stir up a desire amongst the lower orders r a brief. Suoh a clan s t() leen so that they mig ht obtain g degraded the order to which the y belonged, and the ilerio ls ~t,iection to the 24th clause in which h- entertaine r ' a tendency to increase the Noble and Learned Friend's Bill was, that it would h ave evil to which he referred. the • t was hi g hly nece s s art , fur due administration employ an attorney who shouldius tice, that a client should that ceusee should be, as the retain a barrister, and hands of person., over whomy t w he ere now, placed in the a jurisdiction , and if it we re not so courts could exercise likely to be defrsu'led. tie objected suitors would be to a practic e which existed i n tae Coun ty ourts acting as the advoca te in a ca se egianot)t o ne " attorney If there were a necessity f o r a s uitor to have- an attorn e y advocate easweas an attorney let that advocate abarrister, sal he (Lord Campbell) be would mo s t willingly support struck out. Lord CRANWORTH said he did not rise to invite any discussion upon the clauses of the Bill, but should reserve his opinion upon them until it went into Com mittee. He would, however, say that his opinion upon the 24th clause agreed with that of his Noble and Learned Friend who had just sat down. He would direct his observations to the whole purpose of the Bill. It had two distinct objects; the first being to extend the jurisdiction of the County Courts in certain common law cases; and, secondly, to give them the power to carry out the orders and decrees of the Court of Chancery, and to discharge the functions now performed by Masters in Chancery. He thought that both those ob jects were of a useful tendency; but, withlregard to that part of the Bill which had reference to the Court of Chancery, he would suggest to his Noble and Learned 1 Friend whether it would not be better to strike that portion out of the present Bill, so that it might be made the subject of a separate Bill hereafter if it should be come necessary. His reason for making the suggestion was, that there was now a measure before the House of Commons which, perhaps, besides dealing with the other difficulties connected with the Court of Chancery, might possibly contain provisions to carry out the object which his Noble and Learned Friend sought to do by the Bill now under discussion. It was therefore possible that his Noble and Learned Friend's Bill, as it now stood, might in some way come in collision with the Chancery Reform Bill. He did not mean to oppose the second reading of the Bill now before the House, but merely threw out a suggestion to his Noble and Learned Friend. If the Chancery Reform Bill did not touch the question which the present Bill dealt with, then the Noble and Learned Lord could introduce a separate Bill to effect the object which he had in view. Lord BROUGHA.q said the point to which his Noble and Learned Friend bad drawn his attention had certainly come under his consideration. It was possible that the Chancery Reform Bill might contain some pro visions upon the subject which his Bill dealt as regarded 'he Court of Chancery. He believed, however, that the Chancery Reform Bill would not directly deal with the subject to which a part of his Btll had reference, via., conferring upon the County Courts the power f dis- I charging the functions now Performed b y Masters in Chancery, and therefore he did not deem it desirable to adopt the suggestion of his Noble and Learned Friend who had last addressed their Lordships. The Chancery Reform Bill was one which had been looked fur with great anxiety, an anxiety in which he largely partici pated. With respect to the remarks which had fallen from his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Cempbeli) upon the impropriety of barristers receiving briefs in any courts except through an attorney, he would observe that such a practice had often been adopted in toe country courts of bankruptcy, and no evil had resulted from it. He would not now enter into the question whether it, was desirable t..) have an inflexible law upon the subject. or a flexible usage. There were cases in which the flexible usuage might protect a barrister from the effects of n combination which attorneys might have against him, if he did anything to excite their dispipa sure. He remembered a case in which a combination tied been formed against a barrister by,the other branch of the profession : that barrister was a Member of the House of Commons, and the cause of the displeasure of the attorneys was, that he hid felt it his duty to express his opinion unreservedly in the House upon a matter which affecteethem. The result was, that a prin.ed circular was sent round to the profession calling upon diem to forbear having any professional intercourse with the offender. The meaning of that was that that communication which usually took place between a bar rister and an attorney, which was in writing, not by parol, and which was always accompanied by something substantial, should be discontinued. The barrister to whom he referred was in toe habit of practising in the counties of Yoik and Lancaster, and had an inflexible law existed compelling barristers to receive briefs from attorneys only, he could not have defended himself against that combination. He had done so, however, by seeing the clients themselves tit his chambers, and had dispensed with the intervention of an attorney. He also know of combinations having existed against barristers in various parts of the country with regard to their taking briefs in the county marts. The attorneys had resolve if they did so not to employ them oa the circuit, in the Bankruptcy Court, or in any other court. It was for these reasons that he thougt a barrister ought, in every court, to have the option of 'taking a brief from a client direct. It had been proposed to give the county courts jurisdiction in matters of equity to the extent of 5001; bur, after much, consideration, it had not been thought advisable to do so—an opinion in which ho (Lord Brougham) concurred. Lord CAMPBELL said that with regard to the illus trious individual, who was a barrister at the time when the incident occurred, which his Noble and Learned Friend had alluded to, it might be observed that he was a gentleman of such talents and brilliant eloquence that suitors flocked after him, and the combination of the attorneys could not affect him. There wits, however, a class of barristers who lived in the country and never came to London, who bad not that nice sense of pro fessional honour which they ought to have, and there fore he thought that they should be restrained by an ex press enactment from taking briefs in the .county courts from any one but an attorney. The Bill was then read a second time. THE PATENT LAW AMEN DMENT BILL. Upon the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, Oda Bill was read a first time. Lord CAMPBELL observed that be leopod that his Noble nod .L.elreed Friend had inserted clad, sea in the Bill winch enabled a person to protect his pa tent from being continued to be infringed, by means of an injunc tion. Lord BROUGHAM said that he had done so. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACTS AMEND MEN I' BILL. Upon the motion of Lord CRANWORTH, this Bill was read a third time and passed. THE SECRETARY OF BANKRUPTS' OFFICE ABOLITION BILL. Lord CRANWOIIiff brought up the report of tho Committee upon this Bid, which was received. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 13. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. PRIVATE BILLS. The following Bills were read a second time, and or dered to be committed:— Derbyshire, Staffordshire, and Worcestershire Junction Railway. Glasgow Union Arcade. Newport Improvement. PETITIONS. Mr. HINDLEY presented a petition from the post masters of Ashton, pray ing for the repeal of the post horse duty. Sir R. H. INGLIS presented a petition from a local deanery praying for an alteration in the laws regulating beer-shops. Mr. HIGGINS presented petitions from the county of Mayo praying for an amendment of the Irish poor law. _ _ Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from a place in Cava❑ to the same effect. Colonel BOYLE presented a petition from the post masters of Frome praying for the repeal of the post horse duty. Sir DE LACY EVANS presented a similar petition from the postmasters of Westminster. Mr. Sd ULLY presented a petition from the county of Tipperary, praying for the repeal of the malt, sugar, and tea duties, and for the abolition of the law prohibit ing the growth of tobacco in Ireland . STRANGERS' GALLERY. Mr. TRELAWNY wished to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests whether he intended to make any better arrangement for the con venience and comfort of strangers waiting for admission into the gallery than existed at present. If they ad mitted strangers at all they ought to receive them with decency, which was not the case now. Lord SEYMOUR said the arrangements connected with the House werelraade long ago by a Committee, and he had abstained from interfering with them, but he would make a point of inquiring into, this matter, and see what could be done. MILITIA sLL LAWS. Lord JOHN RU gave notice that on Monday he should move that the House do resolve itself into a a Committee of the whole House, to take into cunside r ation the existing state of the militia laws. THE BISHOP OF DURHAM. Sir B. HALL w i s h e d to as k the Noble Lord a ques tion with bad recently to an appointment which reoently Dur ham upon 8,0001. atarar the cathedral taken place to a canonry in e understanding that vacant, D _ . of Durham, which had become MaltbyDr,e was appointed Bishop of he was to re ceiveunder the new law established by the Ecclesiastical Bishop had received 79 last year, it appeared that the which were presented ; but according to returns 1843 there was a vacancy 1, more than that income. In toth to the bishopric, and the y Bishop of the rectories attached preferment, which was worth op presented his son to the Bishop had just nominated No : le cationry. Now, the place On Lord was, whether 1,2001,, and this ;son the the subject be question he wished to Commissionersask the and the Bishop a ny correspondence had taken objection to L se ? understood that a correspondence tween the Ecclesiastical of Durham, and, if so, whether he hadany the u s s f l E o L u i had taken place on the subject of the Bishop's receipts, 1 and there would be no objection to produce l layLiotr d b e J to . r ß e t. All the I country bad been i canonaries in the this reduced to 1,0001, , 1 a year; this one came under Sir a HALL then moved for the production of the core es p o nd,uce, which was ordered to be laid before the 1 House forthwith. . PE TI TIONS. , Mr. LOCH presented a petition from the metropolis prayin g fro ma ublin D against any end mom ent to the colleg e for an alteration of t he duty on post-horses. Mr. GROGAN presented a p etition (This petiti on, on the mot i o n of the Ho n. Member, was , of ynooth. read at the tAlu.) Sir F. TRESIGER presented a petition against the post-horse duty. EDUCATION IN SCOTLAND. Mr. F. MACKENZIE gave notico that on Monday ne xt he would ask Lord J. Russell whether it was his intention to introduce any Bill on the subject of educa tion in Scotland. EXPULSION OF BRITISH SUBJECTS F.llOll AUSTRIA.. Mr. ANSTEY asked the Fi rst Lard of the T r easury a question on the subject of the recent expulsion of cer tain. Scotti.h cl!rgymen from the Austrian territories by order of imnce Schwartze n b erg, and, as i t i s alleged, in contravention of the municipal laws of the Austrian empire, as well as of International rights. LONDON, The lion. Member wished to know whether the ancient laws of Hungary and the Austrian Constitution of 1848 did not secure liberty of conscience to persons of all re ligions persuasions, and whether the Governmenw would not endeavour to obtain ample reparation at the hands of the Austrian Government ? - Lord J. RUSSELL said it was true that certE in per sons, ministers of the Scottish Free Church. who were residing in the Austrian territories for the pur pose of converting the Jews to Christianity, had been t'xpelled from these territories. They were persons who, never interfered with the Roman Catholics, or attem peed to make them proselytes to the Protestant faith. They certainly never supported any political agitation or dis cussion. —(Hear.) When the Hon. Gentleman asked him whether under the ancient law of Hungary rind the Constitution of 1848 they ought not to have been expelled, he could only say the well-known ancient laws of Hungary were extremely favourable -to re ligious freedom (Hear, hear)—so also, lie be lieved, was the Austrian Constitution of 1848 ; but those laws had at present no effect, and th e Aus trian Government had thought proper to expel these ' persons. When information on the subj4!ct was conveyed to Earl Granville, a communication was ad dressed to her Majesty's Minister at Vienna,. He doubted very much whether we could say the proceed ings of the Austrian Government were either against the municipal laws of Austria or the natione►l rights, but undoubtedly they ought to make reparation to the parties who had endured the hardship of an ex pulsion, and lost besides considerable property.--(Hear.) TRAGEDY AT HOLMFIRTH. In reply to Mr. G. SANDARS, Sir G. GREY said the magistrates of the district in which the appalling calamity at Holmfirth took place had sent him a communication requesting that a Government engineer might be sent down to the spot to attend the adjourned inquest, to make inquiries into the nature of the dreadful accident; and that request had been complied with. He was not prepared to say whe ther the Government would propose a grata of money to the sufferers and their survivors. INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT. Mr. LABOUCHERE then rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to carry into effect certain provisions c.aiitairied in the copyright treaty with France. In 1848 an Act was passed on this subject, which gave the Crown powwr to make copyright treaties with foreign nations. This enactment, however, only referred to original works, and translations were excluded from it. With the authority of this Act treaties had been made with several continental countries, and negotiations for other treaties were now going on. Recently a similar treaty had been made with France, and this Bill was to authorise the carrying out of points in that treaty which were not authorised by the original Act. The French Government, for instance, had in duced the Crown to grant protection to authorised translations of foreign works; and although there might be some difference of opinion upon this branch of the subject, yet on the whole he thought this rule would work well if it were carried out with certain limitations; and it we .s therefore proposed to do so. It was proposed to give the author of an original work the right to provide for a translation within five years, provided he specified his intention to do so upon his title-page. Such were the provisions of the Bill which he now wished to bring in. Before he sat down he might state that a clause in the Bill would enable the Crown to make similar conventions with other countries besides France. Lord MAHON thought the thanks of the country were duo to the Right Hon. Gentleman for having in troduced this Bill, as well as to the Noble Lord the Member fur Tiverton, under whose direction the treaty with France was negotiated. The Right Hon. Gentle man bad taken a just view of the subject of translation, and he hoped the Bill would ultimately rscsiv the sanction of the House. He suggested that the Go• e vernment would do well to come to a good understand ing with Belgium and the United States upon this sub ject of copyright. He had reason to believe that these two nations were not indisposed to enter into such con ventions, and he should be glad to know if any negotia tions for the purpose were going on? Mr. LABOUCHERE said there were none at pre sent, but when the Bill should have become law, it was proposed to open communication upon the subject with those two countries, to whom copies of the Bill would he forwarded. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. BOARD OF HEALTH. Lord SEYMOUR obtained leave to bring in a Bill to confirm certain provisional orders of the General Board of Health. NEW REFORM BILL FOR SCOTLAND. The LORD ADVOCATE then rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to extend the right of voting for Members of Parliament, and the law relating to the representation of the people of Scotland. The provisions of this Bill were so much like that introduced for Eng land, that it was quite unnecessary for him to detain the House with any lengthened statement upon the subject. The Noble Lord, who introduced the English Bill brought in the first measure of reform some thirty years ago, but he himself stood in a very different position. The great and distinguished man who introduced the first Reform Bill for Scotland had long been no more, and now nothing was left of him hut the results of his public labours and the works of his pen, which had made the name of Francis Jeffrey and the English lan guage known throughout the whole world.—(Hear.) At the time the first Reform Bill was brought in tor Scotland she stood in a very different position to Eng land. England had something like a popular representation, but Scotland bad none, or if any it wee only a shado w, for the right of returning Members for counties was vested in the Court of Freeholders, who held their property di rectly from the Crown, while the privilege of returning Members for the boroughs was vested in the town coun cil, who elected themselves. And yet, notwith standing such a system, Scotland flourished, but nevertheless that did not prove the inuti lity of a popular representation, but only served to show what a nation might do through the force of its own energies.—(Hear, hear.) The Bill, however, which was brought in and carried by Jeffrey vastly extended the influence and improved the charac ter of the Scotch people, and though it was considered at the time only an experiment, the people soon satisfied the Legislature that it would succeed, and he could only hope that the same use would be made of the Bill that was made of the first, and that the candidate and the voter, the land lord and the tenant, the master and the employed, would still continue V; make it their duty to maintain the national self-respect, without which popular rights were useless. Looking twenty-n at theyears, political and moral progress daring the last at the increasing general intel ligence, and the improved tone of political morality, the difficulty they would have would not be in saying what had not been done, but what had been accomplished in that time. They had been taunted with the fact that there was not popular excitement on the subject of reform. That, no doubt, was perfectly true, but, being true, he considered that the circumstance of the measure being introduced during a period of peace, and discussed without excitement, was the greatest ar gument in its favour. It was impossible to have a more expressive tribute to the benefits of the Reform Bill than this. The absence of that cry for reform, which resounded through the country from the time of the Rockingham Administration to that of Earl Grey, showed that the effect of the Reform Bill was to draw more close together the cords of sympathy between re presentatives and the people. He believed the people had now more confidence in the House, and that they considered it was not necessary, as in former days, to create an agitation out of doors. Under the existing law in Scotland the county representation was vested in landed proprietors and holders of long leases of 101. yearly value, and in the second place in those who held under leases for nineteen years, and those who paid 50/. rent. It was proposed by the present measure to re ' duce the property and long leasehold qualifications from 10/. to 5/., and the 60/. rent qualifications to 20/. With regard to boroughs, the qualification would be the same as that in the English Bill which had been intro duCed by Lord John Russell—the 101. occupancy would be reduced to 51., and the same provision would be introduced as to the payment of a certain amount of direct taxes. The Learned Lord then entered into a brief statement of the minor details of the Bill, which he said would effect a considerable im provement in the existing law. There would be a right of appeal from the Registration Courts to the Scotch Court of Exchequer, which would decide all points of law arising under the Bill. He concluded by expressing an opinion that the mea sure would tend greatly to promote the happiness of the people and the prosperity of the country.—(Cheers.) Mr. CUMMIMG BRUCE • said he cordially con curred in the eloquent panegyric uttered by the Learned Lord, but he could not allow this the first stage of the Bill to pass without expressing his strong conviction that it was ill-timed, uncalled for, and in no direction.—(Laughter and hear.) He did not mean . to assert that the persons whom the Bill proposed to enfran chise were not as independent and as well qua lified to exercise the right as any other portion of the community, but he conceived that the Bill was an unnecessary meddling with the basis on which the Con stitution rested, and would have a most dangerous and mischievous tendency. He was one who opposed every clause of the Reform Act, and he was ready to admit that the evils he anticipated from it bad not been realised.—(A laugh, and hear.) But when the Learned Lord and the Noble Lord at the head of the Government glorified themselves on the manifold good which the Reform Bill had produced, he must say that they had not yet been able to elicit an answer toothear coquunetsrtyi°,ll which had been put by o ne of the most illustriou s men in this er any viz., Government to be carried on?" of the country been since the p assin g of that Bill ? "Hown what is state the Q h u ad eell the 's For the last few years and, indeed, almost at the present overn m m en o t me h n a t d , thefre y qu e e x n e t r i cise of the Governmental f unctions were nearly at a dead lock. The G been almost unable to carry on the business of the country. Knowin g this, Bill,Cordiallysaid themove presetwere theu thanked nt there the w e e r L e emaarnneydpLoionrtds wfohricihnbtreodhuigehinlyg Mr. HUME was not surprised the speech of the last speaker, for he had at . consistently opposed Parliamentary Reform ever since he had ;n that House, but he really was surprised to held a seat however, which had fallen from the liieson. ar the remarks, Inerness. Nevertheless he was not astonished Member for Bills being at these characterised as peddling measure s; and he was at a l oss to u nderstand why the Government had not determined upon bringing in a thorough reform, for the Noble Lord at the bead of it was constantly SATUItDAY FEBRUARY 14, 1852 that they could not have a Reform Bill ever session, reform ii session. • measure; and it was under a direct promise tha t the sub- Why did the Noble Lord then not carry out this ect of the small boroughs shou'd be taken into consideration movement to the fullest possible extent, and then there at an early period that the Bill had been suffered to pass would have been an end to the agitation on the subject. without an amendment.-(Hear, hear.) The oratory of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was generally of a very de - He rejoiced to hear the Learned Lord say that the people clama tory character,ehad stated that a murderous outrage without any particular attention to the of Scotland had made such good use of the franchise. It details a was not a privilege but their right , and what he wanted lovfe sasssi of committed hm had n, where e committed a national school enjoy the right. lie only a was the ished he could live twenty master, leaving it to be inferred that that cause of facts. on H a gistrate on returning from a court was that they should go a step further, and let every one years longer to agitate and he a thorn in the side of the the attack , when the fact reall y was, as the threatening Noble Lord until he conceded to th e 40s. freeholder the notices he had received showed, that the attack was of right of voting. Still there was some good in this Bill, and one of those agrarian outrages arising out of disputes con he should support it. What he wanted, however, was that cerning land. every municipal voter should have tbe right ot voting Ur. GROGAN was surprised to hear it stated that a for Members of Parliament, and that there should be promise had been given by the Government to reduce the franchise from 81. to 51. There was certainly a proposition only one registration, and ho would not rest to that effect made on the occasion, but the influence o until he obtained both these concessions. -(Hear.) the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) was thrown into the scale The greatest defect in all these Bills was the absence of against it.-(Hear, hear.) So far, then, from any promise any clause which established triennial Parliaments and being held out to that e ec ~thefacts of the case warranted effect., t vote by ballot.-(Hear, hear.) au intention quite the converse. Mr. F. MACKENZIE w i s h e d f or some technical Lord J. RUSSELL observed that the Attorney-General explanationothf ethdeistiliilsion was proceeded with., which was given by the Lord Ad- for Ireland (Mr. Hatchell) was p erfectl y j ustified in what he vocals, and had said. He had not alluded to any statement that the Mr. STUART was surprised that such a Bill as this franchise would be reduced from 81. to 51., but to the general should have been introduced, if, as the Hon. Member for wish expressed on the part of the Irish Members, that a plan Montrose said, it was likely to give rise to an annual should be introduced into the Bill in question for adding other towns and boroughs in Ireland , which w ere declared to agitation on the subject of reform. He wooed, have a small, but whieh would have a smalle r , body of h oweve r, suggest that the representation of the electors under that Bill. In answer to that proposition he co unties of Scotland should be more adequately (Lord J. Russell) had said there were objections to it- that adjusted to the extent and interests of the population it should not be adopted hastily; but he had promised that it than it was. Why could not tile counties of Scotland should receive the consideration of the Government. It was be divided into divisions like those of England? Such to that his Hon. and Learned Friend had alluded; and he a measure would improve the representation of was perfectly right in hi ~ recollection of the circumstance, Scotland, and he hoped his suggestion would not be lost and of the views of the Government. Now, when they had, sight of. in accordance with their determination to deal with the whole Mr. EWART thought a 51. qualification ought to be subject, to take cognisance of the various measures introduced from the year 1837 to the present time relating to the repre made the measure of voting both in counties and sentation of thie country, they had to consider whether there boroughs. anything in the Act of 1850 requiring amendment. Mr. MACGREGOR should support the Bill; but, w lt r a is s w h o an u i‘ l iem b b e e r re eme a te t r h ed at that at the time many of the nevertheless , he thought it tell far short of what Scot- instead of the franchise being land had a right to expect. He concurred with the Hon. extended it would be restricted by this Bill, for that the 81. Member for Newark, that the large counties and cities franchise would diminish the number of electors. The Se a Scotland might be parcelled out into divisions. cretary for Ireland had a contrary impression ; but when Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. they came to the effects of the measure it appeared that NEW REFORM BILL FOR IRELAND. whilst by former returns there were 11,993 electors in the Sir W. SOMERVILLE, in rising to move for leave to boroughs, by the last return there were only 8,040-a reduc bring in a Bill to extend the right of voting for Members of tion of nearly 4,000, and coming to each particular borough they found that the number of electors in each were only as Parliament , and to amend the laws relating to the repre sentation of the people of Ireland, said that the question of follows : -Athlone, 181; Bandon, 209 ; Cashel, 211 ; Col raine, 222 ; Dungarvon, 314 ; Ennis, 143 ; elallow. 143 ; Col the Irish franchise having been so recently under the con- New Ross. 171 ; and Portarlington only 71. So that sideratiou of the House-(lronical Protectionist cheers),- whether they looked to the general numbers or to the the Bill he now proposed to introduce would not deal so ex particular number of electors in each borough, it seemed tensively e ith that subject as it would have done were it not reasonable, when they had the subject under consideration, for that fact. The Rouse would remember that in the to make some arrangement by which there should be a year 1850 (Another ironical cheer), -it was his duty, in con sequence of the al most ex ti nc tion of the county franchise larger body of electors in the boroughs, and thus there was in Ireland, to submit f or th e ir acceptance a Bill for the a prima fade ground for introducing the measure. He must say that he thought the discussion on which the amendment of the representation. The House would also Hon. and Learned Member for Enniskillen had chose to remember that at that period the measure to which he alluded introduce a sneer at the Attorney General for Ireland, with underwent ver y } great discussion, and he believed there was scarcely a Gentleman in the House who was not a view to producing some laughter in the House, was hardly fully convinced that the time had arrived when an occasion on which it was decent or proper.-( Hear, a reform was a b so l ute l y nece ssary of the existing hear.) It was certainly the case that the first law officer of franchise. At that time the county representation the Crown had gone down to prosecute parsons who, from the for Ireland gave about 97,000 electors; that was evidence laid before him, he was led to believe was guilty of to say, there was that number of electors on the register, a most atrocious murder, and it certaiuly had happened that though the actual number was considerably below it. He no person had been convicted. If there hat' been a failure of had introduced a Bill in the ye ar 1448 to place the county J ustice in that respect, it was a very lamentable subject.- franchise on a ne w b as i s o f ratin, but that Bill was subsea (Hear, hear.) It was one which ought to be a matter of con g cern to all Members of that House. If life and property were quently withdra wn . I n 1850 ha introduced it again , and had the satisfaction, with the concurrence of the House, of rendered less secure in that part of Ireland, it was a subject finally passing it into a law. The effect of that enactment -(Rear, hear.) that should affect every person who heard it, and he did not being, as he had already upon the representation of Ireland might now be judged of think it an occasion for an idle sneer at a political opponent. from the returns which had been laid upon the table of the House. Previous to the passing of that measure the number Mr. REYNOLDS regretted that the Hon. and Learned of county electors upon the register in Ireland was 27,000, Member for Enniskillen had introduced gal, and bitterness into the discussion. He might have taken another oppor the bona fi de county electors really amounted to. The state tunic of bearing angry testimony against his own country of the county franchise there at the present moment was as men; he ought not to have described them as purjurers observed, a far greater number than follows : - Instead of the 27,1e0 electors who were on the re- murderers, and unworthy of the enjoyment of civil rights. gister before the Act of 1350, the effect of that measure had Mr. WHITESIDE-I deny it. been to increase the number to 135,64 b. --(Hear.) He be- Mr. REYNOLDS-He was glad the Hon. and Learned of the House, he should now bring in, was not designed to Gentleman denied it ; but what, then, was his meaning when lieved, moreover, that the machinery of the Bill had worked boroughs in he said that if they reduced the qualification for the jury satisfactorily, therefore the Bill which, with the permission Panel to Si., Ribbonmen would be empanelled who would interfere in any way whatever with the county franchise.- a widely-different aspect. try one another, and then they would see the result? With (Heard But the state of things with regard to cities and respect to the Bill, why was it not ineorporated with the English Bill? For Scotland there might be a necessity for Under the registration system, before the existing l aw was a separate Bill, because the law of Scotland was so different Ireland presented passed, the number of voters upon the register for counties front that of England, but there was no such necessity in ot chits, and counties of towns, and boroughs in Ireland, the case of Ireland. Why, also, he wished to know, was was as f o ll ows th oug h, as was the case with the county there not a provision relative to freemen voters in large con stituencies, the number of bona fide electors was, in reality, towns. In Dublin there were 4,000 of those freemen, who, much less. The numbers which appeared at that time on notwithstanding the principle that representation should be the register were-for counties of cities and counties of towns, based on taxation, could vote without paying any tax what -21,863, and for boroughs 11,995; whilst the number of re- ever. The Bill, however, as far as it went was a step in the gistered electors at present upon the rolls for counties of right direction, and he should support it as such. cities and counties of towns was 20,253, and for boroughs Mr. C. ANSTEY complained of the different systems of only 8,046. Thus, so far as the effect of the Bill of 1850 registration in both countries-in Ireland it was self-acting, was ,concerned, it would be seen that it had not in- while in England it was necessary to make application to creased the number of voters in these places; but that, on be put on the list of voters. The two countries ought to be the contrary, a considerable dimi nution had tak en place Put on the same footing in that respect. as compared with the register of 1850. N 'w, it was Mr. E. B. ROCHE said he approved of the Bill. It undoubtedly intended that the Act of 1850 should was not common sense to say that a comparative ins•g extend the number of voters, but, instead of doing nificant town like Enniskillen should have a voice in that so a decrease had been the result. The proposal con- Rouse, half as potent as a great agricultural county like tamed in the Bill, which he hoped, with the permission of Cork. He (Mr. Roche) was glad that an analonous Reform the House, to introduce this evening, would therefore be to Bill to that of England has been introduced for Ireland; reduce the borough franchise in Ireland from an Si. for it was a measure very much needed. The limitation to rating to a 51. rating. It would be further observed, 400 in Ireland, and 500 in England, was practically the upon reference to the returns on the table of the H ouse , and that the number in same. He hoped, however , tha t th e B ill f o r I reland w ould that the number of voters in man y of the boroughs ii, be carried through both Houses , pari p asse with the English Bill. He (Mr. Roche) had hoped from the speech of the t l h re e la c n o d un w tie as s o e f x o c t e t e te d s in a g u l d y c s o m un al t l ie ; s of towns was in every i n Hon. Member for Inverness on the introduction of the stance above 500. Therefore it was not intended to take English Reform Bill, that a change had come over the any measures whatever, further than the reduction of th e party to which he belonged; but he was afraid from what h a d voting gealitication from an 81. to a 61. rating so far as re- fallen from the Hon. and Learned Member who had spoken on garde the counties of cities and the c ounties of towns ; but as tke other side, that a change had come over t h em in this regarded the towns where the number of voters was in many respect, and that not daring to refuse refo rm for En g land, t i ns tances exceedingly small, it was proposed to apply the they had resolved to make Ireland a b attle field to decide same principle as the Bill brought in by his Noble Friend once more the battles of party in Parliament. He warned (Lord J. Russell) applied to England-a principle which wa them, however, against that course, which they and their it recommended when the BM of 1832 was before the douse- children would regret, and hope]. the Irish Members would and associate with such boroughs certain t owns in their never consent to make an onslaught on the liberties of the people of Ireland for party purposes. While generally es neighbourhood situate in the same or an .djoining county. pressing his concurrence in the broad principle of the mea which would have the effect of greatly increasing the nuns sure of the Government , he guarded himself against being ber of voters. He proposed, therefore, in every instance held finally c ommitted to it, especially as neither the Engli s h nor Irish 'Reform Bills was before the House. It would, where the number of electors now upon the register did not amount to 400 to associate with the parent borough one or however, receive his most careful consideration. He was not more towns in its vicinity in the same or the neighbouring satisfied that the present county franchise in Ireland, for in county, and so increase the number of voters. By reference stance, was satisfactory; for it was based on the valuation to the returns before the House, it would be seen that this for the poor-law, and it was well known that there was no provision of the Bill would affect every borough in Ireland, with the exception only of Belfast and Newry. He would aun iformity ot,thereto o re f , v h a t l eh u ne a n ti i o fo n rm in , that w hecno itsun thryasis not at present enter further into the details of the Bill, and The was franchise c g o a u i could he considered . lrish county franchise as too high. But the provisions it contained for registration, polling, and the still, believin the . measure to be a step in the right direc rest of the necessary machinery. The Bill would not be a tion, he should give it his support. very long one; and he trusted that the plan it was intended Mr. NAPIER would not have interposed in the debate to carry out would prove satisfactor top the House. only that some of the views put forward by his Hon. Friends Ala WHITESIDE said he had no desre to resist the in- the Members for Enniskillen and Inverness had been per verted or misunderstood. t The Hon. Member for Inverness solving the difficult problem of what would best remedy the had notsuggested give every four hundred electors the evils of Ireland. But he might congratulate the Right Hon. power of representation; for, if that principle was carried out Baronet upon his being the individual who had discovered how representativesman o y rdhado en would be elected for London ? The the necessity of reforming his own Reform Bill, though it was as yet scarcely twelve months old.-(Laughter.) HeFriend the m Member and Learned for Enniskillen; but every (Mr. Whiteside) had examined the returns relative to the whoknew his Ho petitions presented to that House, and had found that the one he _ a_. and Learned Friend knew perfectly well that was wholly incapable of the construction put number in favour of the Irish Reform Bill of 1850 amounted c on his d observations.-(H ear, hear.) If he (Mr. Napier) un to one, and it was signed by 49 persons, whilst there was one also presented against it signed by 34-thus giving a ma- derstoo thearight, argumentbadhe only his Honourable and Learned jority of 15 in its fa,vour.- (Laughter.) For 1851 he found Friend he Nobl3L Ireland whether was prepared to follow out consistently the return nil, and he firmly believed that it would be impose his own principle-namely, to redu ce th e qua lifi cat i on o f a Bible to find in Ire land an y body of individuals, in a respect - juror to that of a u elector, or to enable Si. electors to sit able position of life, who would set their hands and signs- He (Mr. N on Juries. . theapier) cast no reflection on the con tures to a petition praying this House, in the present condi tion of Ireland, to extend the franchise to the 51. householders. duct of thenevertheless, ueies onthought late trials in the north of Ireland, He thought so, because they would be of opinion that it was but _ t it a perfectly fair proposition to consider to o e arl question whether the man qualified to return a measure which would transfer political power from those sub who were best qualified to those who were the worst quail- Memb 'n e v rs olvin P. F the glory who would have to deal with tied to use it.-(Hear.) The Noble Lord had introduced his j b e e c ts i disqualified for thegary and greatness of the empire, should jury -box, or vice vlosil ? The argu- English Reform Bill on the ground of the increased circus ientWas a fair argument; lation of newepapers and periodicals, and the growing intel- fled for one that hs and he (Mr. Napier) was satis ligence of the people. But nu such reason as that could be not in the sli hest d Hon. and Learned Friend in using it did urged in support of this measure for Ireland, for the Noble administration g of • degree seek to cast any imputation on the Lord himself had heretofore described the newspapers of the Bill before the House, in Ireland. - (Hear.) As regarded louse, he (Mr. Napier) felt bound to say that country as uniformly advocating sedition and disorder. that he did That ground faile d, ther efore, in reference to his (Mr. anticipations with regard it with any very pleasant respect to its op e rati on in Ireland. The W hit es ide's) unfortunate country. He readily admitte d Noble Lord who governed that country said on a recent oc that in Ireland ehere was some increase of knowledge; be- ca .ion that what Ireland wanted was peace and repose-that cause it had been obse rv ed by the police that the Ribbon men ' might sit down and pursue their several occupations y* This notices were writt en in a much better style t han ler- calmly. Bill would have a contrary effect to that pre merly.-( Loud lau g hter. ) The spelling was bette r, the dieted by the Lord-Li eu t e nant as a neces s ary for I re l an d . ort h ograp hy was more accurate, an d, if the Noble Lord too k He (Mr. Napier) considered, moreover, that as the qualifica the trouble, be would discover the reason of it to be that It* tion for had been last year at its prese n t some of the schoolmas ter s to Paid out of the national fun d had been the writers. - (Hear, hear.) At this moment a ma• figure, clisurt h)1; the consent of all parties, there was no ground now In respect of the small constituencies, he did gistrate in Ireland was suffering the most excr uciating not think the Bill would improve the representation ; at pre turture, he having been shot because he had committed a sent these c roughs did not return the worst members. sch oo l mas ter to prison for wr iting Ribbon noti ces, Mr. M , LLAGLI said the 81. franchise fixed last year and showing some activity in patting down the had been Ribbon conepiracies.-(Hear.) The registration under the On that subject of a long and bitter debate in that that occasion the majority of the Irish people Act of leso had just been completed by the barristers, and House.rotest d ainst the 101. franchise. The Noble Lord saw 110,000 persons added to the constituencies. Now, these his error, electors had not yet had the opportunity which a general told thator, and hastened to rectify it ; and now they were the Irish Members submitted to the 81. franchise. election would give them of exercising their privileges, and a airt y -two Members for Irish boroughs had voted a g ai ns t t es ting the effects of that measure of reform. In particular the " sum of 81. in favour of a lower sum; while '2B Irish instances of borough elections there had been no corruption, county Members had voted in the other direction. He con because there had been no Coppock.-(Loud laughter.) Yet therefore the Right Hon. Baronet now came forward to condemn his 11 ed the Bill a step in the right direction, and he should _ ir. j give it his support. own measure, and declare that it was necessary for the peace of Ireland to reform the Reform Bill. But not only b of last* YOUNG said his remembrance of the agreement had there been an increase in the constituencies, but a franchise year was, that the borough franchise and the county diminution in the Population of Ireland which counted by bound not assimilating, her alajeety's Government were millions. What, therefore, constituted the necessity for the . to take up the matter this session. He did not think present Bill? Who had called for it? Nobody. Who ex- Il t e union of small towns with the existing small boroughs pected ; who desired ; who wished for it ? No one. He would be satisfactory in practice as in Ireland; unlike Eng protested again s t the principle of the Bi ll. The s y stem land, these towns were in general widely apart. Nor did he of adding tow ns and boroughs together, for the purpose of believe that the addition of those towns would make the making up a constituency, had never ex i s ted in Ireland dur- b o r ough constituencies any better than the y now were ; mg the five centuries that she had possessed representative inasmuch as they would be formed of people who had lost institutions_ and the only e ffect of this alterat i o n w o ul d be their land in the countr y , and who had crowded to these to give pow er to those who were the least qualified to use it. towns to live. He was of opinion that it would be far bet. - ( Hear 1•e Upon on e p o i n t, be must say , he co ngratulated ter to g ive an increased representation to the large towns Vne Right Baronet. The sepa ra tion of the Irish from the and boroughs. As regard ed the q ualification, he had no ob geu Reform Bill was highly judicious , and highly sig. j e c tio n to i t. nifica l nt also. That, h dee meant whate ' Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. he appre en , ver might LIGHTI t G THE HOUSE. be the fate of the English Reform Bill, the Irish Reform Bill, the House be as a s , Sir J. PAKINGTON then moved that was pirate measure would be rejected by the good sense . with candles in the future. If the House and discernment ' lighted wax of the House.-( Hear.) There was another point uthe to be lighted with gas he would prefer that prefer it to be Pon which he wished to put a question, either to should had a horrid Right Hon. Gentleman or his Hon. and Learned Friend to Dr. Reid;• but if it was not, he op-At present they Posite (the Irish Attorney-General), who had just returned, lighted with wax candles. The plan he proposed flushed with his ' f the Special Commission triumphs, from at smell in the house, and a bad light. Mo 2 aghan would remedy both. t see how the House could accede 7-(Loud laughter.) In reply to a question which he l a • Mr. BROWNE did n h o bad resolved that the lighting, . fl _p ~. to his Right Hon. Friend the other evenieg, he was to the propositioen a t 'tilstatione of the House should . be under one i formted that it was the intention of her Majesty's Govern mento introduce a Bill respecting the jury warming, and v n law of Ireland. and as, moreover, they had ordered Dr. Reid to send Now, the present jury law in Ireland followed the first Re- person ; estimates to that effect. Reid did form allin Lord ds y at attew said Dr. Reid did not understand the , and under its provisions the 101. elector became qualified' --resolutions of the House, whether he was to send in an esti aet. also to serve on juries,. Did the Government, then, the House and library only, or for the Committee established, en that precedent, mean to lower the qualification then mate for rooms. He (Lord Seymour) had ished, and found the new Jury Bill on the basis of the Si. and refreshment advised franchise, which lutions. It would be inconvenient Bill? His firm belief was that if that were aenounced nothing now to enter on the question. Besides which wax candles remained for the weak and the innocent but to prepare for would be of no use if the passages were to be lighted with death, and for the strong and the powerful to defend them-the carbon, of which Dr. gas; as ßeid complained, would selves against a confederacy so powerful and united that his com e in from the lobby. Hon Noble ‘ , lll . and L earned Fr i en d (Mr. Hatchell, the Attorney - Sir D. NORREYS charged the Lord with recom "e "al for Ireland), though accompanied by a corps of mending Dr. Reid to send in such a report as wouldmake counsel, was unable to obtain the conviction of one man. resolution of , the . the House ridiculous, because he Mr 14 • --ATCHELL said the observations of f o Hon. and posed to them. was op- Learned Friend had been made with a double view. He had d Mr. HERBERT called the attention of the Noble Lord endeavoured to draw into the discussion some suppose the condition of the strangers' to expectgallery, where Bill about • jurors, and it was most unreasonable to e"ion mightposibly hear what passed, but could see nothing nearer that he (Mr. Islatchell)should then enter upon the discuss than the might be brought mace on the table. He also complained that of a Bill not before the House, and which also seemed strangers were not accommodated • with any place to wait in, in or not. The Hon. and Learned Member had d• but to intim a t e that the Chief in the measure of their lives. covered some gros s in accuracy or oversight reforming the Irish representation which was passed a few , After a few words from Mr. S. How.as, and The I Sir. a • , Mr. Hume, years ago, and whi c h it w as now sought to remedy. , • -ULRIC). ignorance of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman on : Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say he was in favour the matter must be attributed to his not having been a , h of wax candles c ; hut he thought it would be advisable to Member of th e H ouse a t the per iod referred to. He would ave the wholecase before the House before a decision was inform him, then, how the case stood. At the period in arrived at. demand by several of I k e Mr. FOSTER moved for a return of the tolls collected by question there was a strong Irish Members that there should be engrafted on the Bill the corporation of the City of London at the several gates then paind th e provisions embodied in the present and avenues of the City for the last three year* eud ilci g the 31st day of December, 1851; distinguishing the amount col lected at each gat e or avenue; t oge th er w ith a specification of the tolls. The House adjourned at Eight o'clock. ON REFORM WITHOUT THE BALLOT IN THE SMALL BOROUGHS OF DEVON SHIRE. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SIR,—As I conceive it to be the duty o f ever y p e rson, who may be desirous of seeing the ballot appended to the Government measure of reform, to bring to light any circumstances calculated to promote the accomplishment of so desirable an end as giving protection to honest voters, I take the liberty, as an elector of Totnes (one of the small class of boroughs), to make a few remarks on some of our past elections, and to show what would be the probable effect of the new Reform Bill, without the ballot, in towns of this class. It will be recollected that Totnes has been the scene of several very severely contested elections, and no one can deny that they have been attended with the moat dis astrous consequences to the trade and commerce of the town. In the year 1839, Mr. Parrott, one of the then Members for the borough, resigned his seat, and we were plunged into a contest of the most severe description resulting in a double return. The candidates at that time were Mr Blldwin (one of the present representatives), and Mr. Blount, a son-In-law of the Duke of Somerset. Party spirit ran dreadfully high, and interest of every description was brought to bear on both sides of the question. The numbers polled by each candidate being equal, there was to have been a scrutiny betore a Committee of the House of Commons, who, however, delared the election to be null and void in consequence of some informality in the proceedings (the nature of which I need not explain); a new elec ti .n was the result, when the candidates were Mr. Bald win and Mr. Thomas Gay Giaborne (the eldest son of the veteran reformer). Another close contest ensued, and party contention ran as high as before. Mr. Bald win, however, succeeded in being returned by a majority of seven (a considerable time having elapsed and a fresh registration take place between the two elections, by which a number of fictitious VuteS were added to the Conservative aide). Now, Sir, the circumstance to which I am about to call your attention is this:—On each of the occasions to which I have referred, " Lists of the Poll" were printed and circulated amongst the adherents of one of the po litical parties, by which it could be seen at a single glance how every tradesman had voted. lam not going to state what effect such an act may have caused in this town; I do not profess to attach myself particularly to either the Radical or Tory side; but Ido not think it would be possible to calculate the extent of injury capable of being inflicted by resorting to such a practice as this. some of these lists are still in existence, and may, like so many embers, be easily re-kindled into a flame at the first outbreak of a political agitation. True it is that each party may adopt the same course; but I totally ob ject that any party whatever should have the power of publishing to the world how every tradesman and work man has voted, and thus set man against man, and have the effect of intimidating a tradesman particularly from giving a conscientious and independent vote. Fancy the effect of such a practice as the one I have described being resorted to in a neigbouring town (Tor quay), where the tradesmen are mainly dependent for support era the aristocracy who flock to that fashionable watering-place, and where, during the winter months, there is frequently an influx of from 2,000 to 3,000 of the higher classes of society, incluoing a pretty good sprinkling of toe clergy! A tradesman could scarcely dare to give a conscientious vote, for fear of his name being published with a view to obtain patronage for the serfs of party only. I happen to know, from frequent communications with several of the Torquay tradesmen, that hundreds there have been heard to express that they had no desire what ever to have a share iu the election of borough Members for tear of consequences that might ensue. I say, God forbid they should, for their own sakes, unless shielded by the ballot. I could say a great deal more on this subject, but fear I have' already taken up more space than you will allow me. I venture to assert, however , that without the ballot, the new measure of Reform will be productive of evil rather than good in small boroughs; but accompa nied with the ballot, it would give general satisfaction. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN ELECTOR OF TOTNES. -- ----- A STANDING NAVY. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Six,—The paying off the Ganges and Southampton at this critical period has at length demonstrated the imbeci lity of putting together a complicated and beautiful piece of machinery at an enormous expense, and as soon as it has attained perfect working order, the whole of the elements of which it was composed was scattered to the winds. It is, therefore, a source of the very greatest possible pleasure to me to see that you have taken up a subject of such vital importance to the British empire as the manning our ships of war; and would to God your influential journal had thirty years ago been equally zealous in advocating the con centration of our naval forces to fiti4 of the maximum rates, which I have incessantly advocated in oraer to prevent a recurrence of the disgrace which was inflicted on our country by the defeats we sustained frem the American. in the last war, when the Board of Admiralty at thAL period were obliged to issue an order to the captains of our frigates not to risk an action with the American frigates! forsooth, because they were so much inferior to them in size, calibre of guns, and number of men. Yet, notwithstanding this self-convicted blindness on their part in not keeping pace with the times in building ships of equal magnitude with other maritime powers, will it be believe.i, in defiance of the constant warnings they had, they continued buil ing donkey frigates of 26 guns, line-of-battle ships of 70 guns, 10-gun brigs, and nondescript corvettes, until within the last three or four years. The millions that have been squandered in this way have been of that enormous amount that it has always been to me a subject of amazement that it was tolerated for such a protracted period. Sir, the only remedies for these evils are those which I have advocated in vain for many years. The first is, to have a standing navy, like a standing army, by which means we can keep all our educated gunners, which cost us such large sums in training, and when turned adrift after three years' service generally go to America, where the exodus of the Irish, English, and Scotch population are bending their steps. _ . With a stauding navy we have the p ower o f selecting and retaining none hut the best men in the service, which on an emergency form the nucleus of ships' crews for increasing our fleets; wheras, by the present privateer s y s tem, we are allowed to take what men we can get, good, bad, and indifferent, to man our ships of war ; and even this process is generally extended over some months before a ship can be got ready for sea! With a standing navy, when a ship comes home from a foreign station, if on examination she is found to require considerable repair, the crew would in that case be turned over to a ship of the same class in ordi nary, and fitted out immediately, a portion of them receiving that leave of absence to see their friends to which they are undoubtedly entitled. Again, with respect to the concentration of our ships of war to,five of the maximum sizes, the materiel of one rate would be applicable to every one of the same rate. The eco n,my that would by this means ensue in the materiel would he enormous ; in addition to which the maximum size of each rate would be not only a match for every enemy's ship of the same rate, but would be sure to annihilate all others of inferior sizes, though nominally of the same rate. If you will steadily advocate these effective remedies for the crying evils which exist in the government of the navy, you will render an important service to our common country, which is now labouring under the apprehension of invasion—a subject that never would have entered into any man's mind had the timely warning been taken which I gave twenty years ago, and been therefore prepared f T all eventualities. Of those who have not had the capacity to do that which they ought to have done, it may with truth be said—" Amabilis insania, et mentis gratis , irnus error I" I am, Sir, Ice., J. RYDER BURTON. 15, Park-square, Fob. 12. NAVAL IN'IIbLLIGENCE. - - - - The members of the new Board of Admiralty, including Rear Admiral Sir James Stirling were gazetted last night. Rear-Admiral the Hon. M. F. Berkeley, C. 8., M.P., and Rear-Admiral Houston Stewart, M.P., have announced their intention of receiving officers on Tuesdays, at two o'clock in the afternoon. R ear -Admiral Deans Dundee, C. 8., in his flagship Britannia, 120, Captain Goldsmith, is said to have tcleit The Wind seen by the Pilot on Wednesday off Ply r after down Channel under a fine topsail breeze. w wards shifted. aster attend- Argus, steam sloop, in charge of th e second D e von the .advanced of port on ant Mr. Davy, sailed from Por tsmouth Thursday afternoon. She will form one steamers at that port. Cormorant, 6, steam - sl oe p , Commandermorning fromnio, from Chamberlain, arrived at Spithead yester day She has sailed nearly whence she sailed on etirigtrnas-eve. all the way home, and had but one ton of coals on board s come into harbour to get fuel, and she anchored. S and will proceed to Wo h n o e l 1 ich to pay off. Her boilers are ' d w lta a v r e d been n p . s o Commanderb a d t hat sh e Cormorantfever. ttie . the e oft ? . g a ir r e, p hs y es :n a deplorable state, a Rio nearly six months as a gC la h y am a . t berlain has completely recovered . . fr ht o ih rn_ e, steamer, the. Ctreswceernet at re ß c in iv w in h a en s p and slavers, t American friga e 'menniatPiotYn—the otherswo Cormorant has taken about eight prizes of which she sent to St. Helena for conde were destroyed. She ham experieuced bad weather for the last ten days. Pilot, 12, Commander I - lickley, was mustered, inspected, and exercised in Plymouth Sound, on Thursday morning, i by Captain Lowe; after which she was towed into harbour by the Confiance, and placed alongside the dockyard to pre pare for paying efe, Simoom iron screw steam troop-ship, Captain Kingcome, was to have gone out to try her got up her stea m , but, in after _ __ machinery repair. She way, and d moving, something again ga ve she was towed over to the mooring off Gosport, where she remains ; and it is uncertain when she will be tried. Mr. Durrien is (we understand) expected at Portsmouth to examine the machinery. Sprightly, Master Commander Allen, succeeded, after much trouble, in getting the Agnus, barque, off shore on Wednesday. On Thursday the Sprightly took down aCrolo nel Sir Frederick Smith, of the Engineers, and a bod of officers. They landed at Sconce Point, in the Isle of Wight, at Hurst Castle, and at Caishot Castle, and minutely exa mined the state of the defences a t those points. Captai n Hall, R.N., also went down in the Sprightly. ~ ~ A CHANNEL SQUADRON . Under this head we find the following in the Chronicle of yesterday : mouth, and "It is resolved to organize a powerful Channel squadron, which will he crnizing between Spithead, pl y Queenstown during. thesumnfiir. A ... gallant vice -admiral, who distinguished himself . in China, will most probably have o f this evolutionary force, which will con and steam ships the command g th : Lßritish navy, prise the -finest sailing will include all o g r most of the folow i i n n and }{. M. S. Waterloo ..... 12011. M. S. Superb BO Queen ~ t, Boscawen Neptune l2O St. George l2O Bl e nheim ft „ Edinburgh 2, Impregnable... 101 „ Hogue St. Vincent ... 100 Ajax ft Prince" ~ Regent 92 " 56 Arethusa 91 Rodney . ........ 92 '' Phaeton 5O , London ....... .. 921 „ Indefatigable b 0 ~ Ganges ~ The whole of the above ships, with the exception of the Ganges and Edinburgh, are already in commission. The Queen will have some time to serve on her arrival from the Alediternaltu station, which it i 4 444144E1 6124 1114 9744 s EVENING, plete by cruising. The flag-ship of this new squadron o evolution will be the Sanspareil screw two-decker of 81 guns, and the Commander-in-Chief Vice-Admiral Sir Thos. Cochrane, It is scarcely necessary to state that there is not the slightest foundation for the above formidable statement. It is a piece of pure romance, both with respect to ships and co mmander-in-chief.-- Herald. PORTSMOUTM. Fait. 13.—The Camperdown, 104, advanced ship, which was driven from her moorings a week or so since by the violence of the gale, was taken back to-day, the moorings having been repaired. PORTSMOUTH GARRISON. • Her Majesty's Government having ordered the permanent staff of the militia throughout "rest Britain and Ireland to be inspected by field-officers of the regular army. to ascertain its present efficient state pre vious to the militia being drawn for and called out before Juee next for drill, Lieutant-Colonel Ward, of the 48th Re giment, quartered in this garrison, has been selected to in• spect those in this district, the South and North Hants, Isle of Wight, Sussex, Dorset, and Wilts. PLYMOUTH, FRIDAY, FEB. 13.—Her Majesty's brig Pilot, which arrived from Portsmouth on Wednesday , w a s yester day inspected by Captain Lowe, of her Majesty's ship Im pregnable, and her crew was exercised at the guns, atter which she was towed up harbour by the steam-vessel Pike, preparatory to her being paid off. APPOINTMENTS. WOOLWICH, FEE. 13.—Second Master John W. Ff. Ilar v-y (1847) to the Horatio, 24, screw steam guard-ship at Sheerness. Clerk William H. Richardson (1845) to the Simoorn, steam troop-ship, at Portsmouth. Captain Kellett, C. 8., Commander of the Resolute, and Commander Richards, appointed to the Assistance, the sail ing vessels of the Arctic expedition, visited these vessels at Woolwich to-day, and Lieutenant Osborn, appointed to com mand the Pioneer screw steam-vessel for the same service, visited her yesterday. A number of caulkers commenced caulking the Assistance and Resolute to-day. both these vessels having remained in the dry dock since they were paid off on their return from the last Arctic expedition.: The Highflyer steam-sloop is ordered to be supplied with five iron provision tanks on a plan approved of by the Admi ralty and Surveyor of the Navy, and to be furnished to ves sels for holding provisions, instead of the wooden bins hitherto used for that purpose. SHEERNESS, THURSDAY. Her Majesty's ship Ganges, 84, was warped this morning from the south side of the basin to the west side, and underneath the sheers, for the purpose of having her masts removed prior to being taken into the dry dock to make good her defects, and to be got ready for commissioning. She had her mizenmast taken out this afternoon. Her Majesty's ship Russell, 72, was removed to the south side of the basin to have her hold stowed, and to take her tanks on board. She is to be fitted forthwith for service. Her Majesty's ship Waterloo, 120, Captain G. R. Mundy', flagship of Vice-Admiral the Hon. Josceline Percy, Com mander-in-Chief at the Nore, was placed this morning at the north side of the basin, on order that, as soon as the tides permit, she may be removed to her moorings off the north end of the Dockyard. Her internal arrangements , painting of her cabins, &c., are finished, and on her quitting the basin her officers and crew, at present in the Minotaur , will be removed into her. She has been upwards of six months under the hands of the dockyard. Four steamers, it is currently reported, are to be shortly got ready at this port, as an addition to the present steam squadron of reserve. Her Majesty's steam-sloop Hydra, Mr. Thomas Belgrave commander, after starting from Portsmouth for the Cape of Good Hope, with the new Governor of that colony, General Cathcart and suite, wrung her rudder-head, and was in con sequence obliged to put into Plymouth on Monday aftenaeen last, to have the necessary repairs effected. The Goodwill, dockyard lighter, Patrick master, arrived on Wednesday evening from Chatham with stores, and is un loading in the discharging basin. She will sail for Portsmouth in a few days, with other stores for the naval arsenal of that pore. Wind, E.N.E., weather fine. FRIDAY MOANL.NG. —Her Majesty's steam -sloop Barr e couta, 6, 300-horse power, Polyphemus, 5, 200-horse pellet . ' and Pluto, 4, 100-horse power, are to be stationed at this port as an increase to the present steam squadron of reserve. They are to be provided with their sea stores, &c., for six months, so as to be ready for any service for which they may be required. The brig Coquet, Bain master, put out of the basin on Wednesday, and having got her ballast on board, sailed to day for Newcastle. The * Stoker, J. Duly, of her Majesty's steam-frigate Amphion, who lost his life on Tuesday last, while on duty, by the upsetting of the ship's boat in the harbour, has left!' widow and child in great distress. An appeal is being made to the humane and charitable of the port on behalf of the family, which has been already responded to by man y re mectable individuals to such extent lte ira . " mediate wants of the widow. an as The body of to supp the unf y orthunar man has not yet been recovered. The boat in which he contained two iron pigs of ballast, the cause no doubt of her sinking. Her Majesty's screw steam guard - sh i p Horatio, 24, Can tain S. T. Carnegie, will be ready to cross her lower an! topmast yards to-day. Few, if any, able seamen have.r_l' volunteered to join her. There a pp ears to be a great ro tance on the part of our blue jac kets to enter for ehiPs . tioned here. IkthLAND DUBLIN, FRIDAY. — J o seph Cartar, propri etor and editor of the Dundalk Democrat, extreme ten*nt-right journaltwP arrested last night , by order of the Governm ent, for mad' cious and wicked libels, excitin6 hatred and malice betwe?il p; landlord. and tenants. He was admitted to bail , and m i ll oe tried at the next watzes. The election of a representative for Kinsale took P 1 4 54 yesterday, when Mr. John Isaac Heard was returned with out opposition. Mr. Heard was proposed by Lieutenatir Daniel, It N., and seconded by Major Warren. There no popular feeling whatever evinced on the occasion. RAILWAY RET URNS WEEg• .FFIO RETU-NS FOR THE P. Miles opened, 1851. NAME OF RAILWAY. 1850. — A1, 122 bi 6 141 993 595 3,475 7,27 5 %ill 427 909 717 312 621 157 624 3,3 52 12,80 5 1,466 3,232 1,9J2 BRITISH. Aberdeen ...•••....••••..••.. ....• Belfast and Ballymena • • •• •• •• •• •• •• Belfast and County Down.. • • • • •• • • •• Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire Bolton, Blackburn, and West York • • • • Bristol and Exeter . • .......... •• •• • • Caledonian.— ....... .......... •• Chester and Holyhead. •... • • .... • • • • Cork, Blackrock, and Passage • • • • • • Dublin and Belfast Junction ••..• • • • Dublin and Drogheda• •• • • • •••• • • • • • Dublin and Kingstown • . • . • • • • • • • • • • Dundee and Arbroath •• • ••• • • • Dundee, Perth, and Abereeen Junction Dundalk and Enr!skillen • • • • • • • • East Anglian.... • • • • • - • . 60 6 3,9 52 14, 44 1, 9 6 1,916 East Lancashire • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Eastern Counties and Norfolk.. • • . • • • Eastern Union .. .. • • . • • • • • .• • • • • • • • • Edinburgh and Glasgow .• • • •• •• •• •• Edinburgh, Perth, and Dundee •• •• Exeter and Creditors......... . •• •• • • Furness Railway .. • ••••• • • • • • Glasgow, and South-Western. • • • • • • • Great Northern and E. L. • • • • • • • • ' • Great Southern and Western (Ireland) Great Western .........• •• • ••• • • . Irish South Eastern ...• • • •• • • • • • • Lancaster and Carlisle.. • • • • ..... • • Lancashire and Yorksbire..• ..... • • • • Leeds and Thirsk • • • • • • •• •• • Liverpool, Crosby, and Southport• • • • London and North Western;. • • • • • • • • B London and lacitwall. ••••••• • • • • • • London, Brighton, and South Coast.. London and South Western. ..... • • • Londonderry and Enniskillen • • • • • • • • Manchester, Buxton, and Matlock, &c. Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Manchester and South Junction • • • • • • Maryport and Carlisle • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Midland Great Western (I r ish) • • • • • • Newcastle an d Carlisle. • • - • • • North • • ~ • • • • • • • • •• ••• North Staffrds hi re •• • . " • North-West ern ••••••• • • . • . • .• • Scottish Central • • • ..• ... • • ....• • • . • Scottish Midland • i • . h .. • . • • Shrewsbury and Dirm ng .• •• • Shrewsbury and Chester •• • • • Shropshire Union ••• • • • •• • • South Devon • • • • • • • • • • Sout t Eastern •-• •• ........ ....... Sou th Wales •.••• • • • • .......... '• Sout h York., Doncaster , and Goole Ulster . •.• •...... ....... .. Waterford and Limerick .... -• •• •• •• • West Cornwall ............ Whitehaven Junction York and Newcastle, and Berwick .. York and North Midland. •• •• •• •• • j 69 17 4 14,27! 6,842 FOREIGN. Central of France ......... ..... Dutch hhenish • • • • • • • aria Antonia • • • •••••• • • • • • Montereau and Troyes • • • Northern of France Orleans and Bordeaux.. • • • • • • • • Paris and Lyons • • • • • • •• • • Paris and Orleans .. • • • ...... • • Paris and Rouen . • • • • • • • • • • " " Paris and Strasburgh •• • • ••• • • • Rouen and ilavre .. • • • • • • • • • • Tours and Nantes ••• • • •••• • • • • 3,204 715 155 823 17, 292 20 2 4,o*u 6,920 5,494 4,50 5 2,22 1 1,218 975 17, 70 1,3 i i 10, 222 8, 21 " 5,7 92 7, 35° 2, 294 9,022 RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS. BRISTOL, FEB. 13. e ja STOCK EXCIIANGE. — The re was little or nothing don a the share market t o-da y . The onl y sales reported od 'Change were—Great Western, 86% ex div.—BristolAli Exeter, 86A• LIVERPOOL, FEB. 13. STOCK EXCHANGE. —The share market opened Ter); strong this morning, but it has since gone flatter, and 'T r t, anxiety is manifested. In the afternoon it was inactive, fol pricea were firm at the close The transactions were a 3 „3/ low :—Caledonian, 15 L4—Lancashire and Yorkshire,... —Ditto, Fifths, 6. 15-16 dis.—Ditto, Fifths (West ic•ndif' , N3eow3/4 Preference,l NI id land, Union), 4 11-16 die.—London and North-Western, 11".nd L an in d c c ol a n n s a h l i ) re , Ditto, New Quarters, 3 7 / R p.—Manchester. Sheffield,: '''-‘, (_South ard Eastern 658J1—cSent.t.1,1 and Dover, 20 3 / 4 —York and North Midland, 217 a• MANCHESTER, FEB. 13. of STOCK ExcxAxas.—Ther® has been a fair a mount _, business u done to-day, but prices in most cases were losf" e 2 l izg ena p. (R ail v iva z an yesterday. The transactions were as follow :--Ltio cashire and Yorkshire, 6.sl,—Ditto, Fifths, 6 15-1 6 ( 1 ,,,i 5 ; 0 , West Riding, 44 dis.—London and North-Western, '-',(1), Quarters, 3 13-16 p.—Manchester and Birminghaun, r'....' 13;:t n. p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire 31,43ter Midland, 58.4,—50uth -Eastern and Dover, 20 : 11 -1Ch t c,, and Birmingham, 16i,— Great Northern, Preference, I4M BIRMINGHAM, FEB. 13. ctif a STOCK. E XCBA NGE.—The share market w a s more a _ A _ to-day, although late q uotations are scarcely maim Th e tra nsactions were a s follow: Eastern Counties, .d. Midland (Birmingham and Derby), 28%—South Sts' shire, IV 2 die. ----...—....... ---------=_ oa Tun AMAZON.—Anotber mast of the ill -fa t Amazon has come into the Channel, and drifted asho re :,. Broadmark-lane, a mile to the eastward of LittlehamPt°e, pier. It is banded, 2ft. Sin. in diameter, is 40ft. in leng Po the s te P' perfect, with eight of the iron hoops on, 13ft. frorn A has but is burnt from this tapering to a point at the top, In," 40 1 attached to it at the step an iron winch. It has been 7 ~..., possession of by Mr. P. Isemonger, the derelict receivehi:; this district. Fragments of charred spars and pla s frightor+ also been picked up on oar beach during the week.-- Gazette. Worn' A Cork paper records the extraordinarY c - west, sf , n „ o f a young woman, residing near Passage ,0 and hav i ng on Saturday last given birth to four ch i ldren, two boys and two gir l • 3 # All of whom were doing e 0 UT*. t 45% 189! 94% _614 171 N 241 183 277 228% 9;”4 3043 , 2 279 152 574 21% 63 44*4 1344 240 584 19,411 1,006 702 1,499 2,911 4,366 371 1,447 501 1,376 450 1,561 8,e60 824 1,131 1,950 819 410 243 202 12,81 4 6.477 2,850 750 109