The Sun. — London, England, 1846-07-25 00:00:00

the House, at its rising, should adjourn until Monday next. Mr. COWPER presented several petitions from various places against the violation of the Sabbath by Sunday tradiuk THE SUGAR DUTIES CONTINUANCE BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having rose to move the order of the day for a Committee of the whole House on this Bill, Lord G. BENTINCK rose and said—l take this op portunity of stating that I shall postpone the motion of which I have given notice till Monday next, when the sager duties will be brought on. The SPEAKER having left the chair, and the house having resolved itself into Committee on the 8111, and the clause as to the limititation of the period of the Bill, Lord GEORGE BENTINCIC said he would move, as an amendment, that the word " July" be substituted for the word " September." The effect of this amendment would be to make the temporary Bill an eleven months' instead of a monthly Bill, and it would have effect until July, 1847. His object in moving this amendment was not to obstruct the Government in any way, but to facilitate their movements, and not to interfere in any way with any permanent measures that they might think fit _to adopt. At the same time, if, upon further refl , ction, her Majesty's Ministers should think fit to defer till another session the permanent settlement of the sugar duties, it would give them an opportunity of doing so, and he could assure the House that it would be a great relief, and nothing more than an act of justice and mercy to the merchants engaged in the • sugar trade, if they should afford them this small respite for the measures proposed by her Majesty's Ministers.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The appre hension as to a famine in sugar was far more visionary than the apprehended famine in corn.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He took the liberty of stating on a former evening, that no lese than between 40,000 and 50,000 tons of sugar were annually produced in the Mauritius ; since that statement, the mail had arrived from India, bringing intellig ence that no less than' 60,000 ton might be expecte d to; be pro duced there in the present year, and 72,000 would probably be produced in the Cape of Good Hope. The Noble Lord having said that it was not his intention at present to enter at any length into the subject of the sugar duties, concluded by moving the amendment. He would propose to extend the period named in the Bill, sth of September, 1846, to the sth of July, 1847. On the amendment being put, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he did not intend, at that period, to go into the general question of the sugar duties. He would merely state that everybody, and every communication which her Majesty's Government had received upon the subject, all concurred in this, : that it was desirable that the sugar question should be permanently settlement. He was sure that all persons, whether they went further than her Majesty's Government, or whether they did not go so far upon this question still argued in representing the set tlement of the sugar question as an important consi• deration. He did not believe that anybody, either in the House or out of the House, believed that the question of the sugar duties should be suffered to stand upon the present basis. He thought that the proposition of his Noble Friend the Member for Lynn would defeat his own purpose. He could assure the House that the Government intended to go on with the measure they proposed, and he trusted that they would be able soon to bring the question to a permanent settlement. Sir R. INGLIS said he did not intend to go into the general question of the policy of the present sugar duties. He must say that in his opinion there was nothing in the proposition of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn which would at all interfere with the ultimate decision of Parliament, or with the proposition of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government. By adopting the amendment of the Noble Lord, the House would have time to deliberate upon the ques tion, and the trade would be protected from the sudden interference with the existing duties. The proposition of his Noble Friend might do good in this sense, but it could not do harm in the sense of her Majesty's Ministers, if they had a triumphant majority, which they anticipated, but with respect to which, he believed, they were grossly deceiving them selves ; his proposition could not vitiate that triumph at all. And, besides, if they acceded to it, they would have until July next a similar amount of revenue from the importation of sugar to that which they had derived since July last. No man believed that the sugar duties ought not to be con tinued as a source of revenue, and as the proposition could not possibly do harm, he should give it his support. Mr. LABOUCHERE repudiated the idea that the Government were swayed at all by the expectation of a triumphant majority on the measure brought forward by the Nobie Lord the First Lord of the Treasury. All they wished was that the subject should be fairly discussed, and that a decision should only be come to after mature deliberation ; and therefore they had no wish to prejudge the question, but if they passed a continuance Bill for a year instead of a month, ae proposed, the question would be left open, and the greatest uncertainty and derangement to trade could not fail to ensue. In fact, he believed nothing could be more fatal to the commerce of the country and to the interests of the West Indian planters if an impression was conveyed abroad that Parliament was disinclined to enter, in the present session, into a serious consideration of the duties, with a view to the final adjustment of those. duties. Any one who had watched the condition of the country for the last five years, and the uncertainty in which that commerce was placed by the unsettled con dition of those duties, must be aware that no question stood more in need of a permanent and final adjustment than the sugar duties.—(Hear.) Then, again, the sub ject would be soon brought before the House by the Noble Lord (J. Russell). Strangers were then ordered--to withdraw, and the Hoene divided, when there appeared 7- For the ameximent . ..... 3B Against it • l2l Majority :valeta the amendment THE WELLINC,ITON-STATUE. On the motion that the ordef of the day for going into Committee of Supply be read, Mr. C. BERKELEY said that he zlould assure the House that in bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice, be should follow the example of his Noble Friend with regard to the brevity of his observations. He was sorry that the subject h,d not been taken np by a Member more influen tial than he was, but , considering the im portance of the subject to the public at large, he had no hesitation in bringing it under the consideration of the House, A number of individuals, with the most praiseworthy intentions, had subscribed large sums for the purpose of erecting a testimonial to the Duke of Wellington. A site was required, and the gentlemen of the Committee, without consulting the majority of the subscribers, had decided upon placing it upon the arch at the top of Constitution-hill. Several remonstrances were addressed to Lord Melbourne, but without any good effect. Now he knew that his Noble Friend opposite would tell him that his motion was too late, but the papers on which it was founded were not moved for by the Mem ber for Oxford till June 29, and they were not in the hands of Members till the 11th July. Now he was not going to follow the example of his Noble Friend whom he saw behind him.—(Loud laughter.) It was impos sible to imagine anything more inartistical or in worse taste, and he would trouble the House with a state ment of Mr. Decimus Burton's opinion on the subject. (The Hon. Member here read some extracts to the effect that the arch presented an appearance far too meagre for the design , an d was exceedin g l y inappropriate.) All the architects that had given their opinions on the subject had expressed themselves in the strongest terms against the proposal. There happened to be one of the most distinguished foreigners in this country Jatoly —an Italian gentleman—and he was per fectly astonished at the monstrous proposition, and concluded by saying, that if the plan was carried out the statue and the arch would most assuredly fall.— (Hear, bear.) Now he (Mr. Berkeley) must say that he gave the Noble Lord, the First Commissioner of the Woods and Forests, very great credit for doing his best in this matter. The letter he had written ought to have considerable weight with the House, and the letter of his predecessor in office was equally good. He would not trouble the House by , reading the Noble Lord's letter ; but Lord Canning said in his com munication to the Committee, that whilst in the name of her Majesty he was quite prepared vr permit the placing of the statue on the arch, he at the sa.'ee time considered it his duty to state that her Majesty's G o vernment hoped that the Co mm i ttee would act in ealP2iance with the many remonstrances which had been presented to them:against the proposal, by desisting from p i a ch: , _g the statue on the arch, and that every eminent architect and artist who had been consulted on the suliject; decidedly m condened the proposal to erect a statue of so colossal a size as was intended to be placed on the arcfre---(Hear.) In answer to that communication of Lord Canning the Duke of Rutland said that the Committee bad refused to re consider their design, and they insisted upon carrying their monstrous proposition into effect.---(Hear, hear.) Well, then, he (Mr. Berkeley) cons:;dered that the House were called upon to interfere in this matter.--(Hear, hear.) The arch on the top of Constitution- hill afforded a thoroughfare to one of the most crowded parts in the metropolis, and itwas also one of the entrances to the palace of the Sovereign of this country. That arch was also built at the public expense, and the House of Commons had a right to say that such an in terference was attempted to be made with the arch as ought not to be permitted. He should, therefore, propose e'That an humble address be presented to her Majesty praying that her Majesty will withdraw her consent to place the statue of the Duke of Wellington upon the arch a t the top of Constitution-hill."—(Hear, hear.) Mr. H. B AILEY, in rising to secon d t h e mot i on o f the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Cheltenham, did so w ith the greatest pleasure, becau se h e h a d himself intended to bring forward such a mo tion,o he had delayed d o i ng s - • butuntil certain letters were laid UnOn the table of the Ho He must say that the proposition of the subscribers to the statue was most m onstrous.—(Hear and laughter.) What he wished to impress upon the attention of the House was, that they were about to erect a monument, in honour of the greatest hero this country bad ever produced, being manufactured of imperishable materials, and ho believed it would .form the greatest colossal statue in- the world. It Was calculated to remain for ages and ages yet to come, not only as a monument of the great man-it was intended to represent, but as a monument of jpaltinwledge and taste of the fine arts existing amengat r ,the told° of this country in the age in which thiylived, an it was, therefore, highly de sirable that the monument should be made as perfect as it possibly could be.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") snowing, as the Committee did, the opinion of distin guished personages, and the opinions of scientific men, be thought it somewhat indecent that the Committee THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 25, 1846. should persist in their course of placing the -statue in the proposed position. Lord MORPETH said that his private opinion, which offi.2ial responsibility could not altogether separate from him, was that he had certainly some misgivings upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.) When he succeeded to office he found that the preceding Government had given their consent to the parties who wished to erect the statue, and he did not therefore feel disposed to take the pleasure of her Majesty again upon the question. He wished that the subscribers could persuade themselves to accede to the offer which had been made previously by her Majesty's Government, but he did not think himself warranted in interfering in the subject. He would merely state that in a letter which had not been laid upon the table of the House, from Mr. Burton, it was stated that having examined the structure of the arch he was of opinion that it was sufficiently strong to support the weight of the statue, but he added that in his opinion there would be some difficulty in raising a statue of the weight of thirty or forty tons to the heigh I proposed by the committee. This is all, said the Noble Lord, I have to submit to the House.—(Laughter.) Sir F. TRENCH would state the real nature of the case. None of the committee had any objection to the pro posed site—they only objected to the cost, and which side it should be upon; but the cost was decided upon and her Majesty's consent obtained a year before this objection was made. The next course to adopt was to determine the nature of the memorial, and it was agreed that the money subscribed by the public should be devoted to the erection of an equestrian statue of the Duke of Wellington on that arch. They afterwards found it impossible to adopt any other course than the one deter mined upon, as they were virtually appointed to effect thatobject. The Queen gave her consent through Lord Melbourne to the site; a deputation of the Committee then waited upon the Duke of Wellington to announce their decision, and to congratulate him that he would have opposite his window the great tribute which the public of England intended to erect to a loyal servant of his country. On the Ist of June her Majesty re ceived the chairman of the committee, and gave her consent. On the 6th of June the whole of the sub committee went as a deputation to the Duke of Wel lington, on the matter of placing the statue in that position. On the 22d of June, and on the 3d of July, the letters which had been referred to appeared, written by a nobleman whom he was proud to observe had never attended the committee at all. It was part of the duty of the sub-committee to submit the plans which were proposed for the statue in ques tion, and as soon as her Majesty had given her consent to its being placed on the arch on Constitution-hill, they were so submitted, and the opinion then expressed was, that this was the best position for it. When the design for the statue now agreed was offered, and her Majesty's consent was obtained, a meeting of the general commit . tee Ins called, which was very fully — attended, there being no less than twenty-six members present. The result was, that after a deliberation, the proceedings of the sub committee were confirmed, there being but one of the members who objected to the statue being placed on the arch. He would ask the Hon. Member who so much objected to the proceedings of the sub-committee if it was right to charge that committee with indecent proceedings, or with exceeding their duty. They consulted the feelings of the general com mittee, and considered their duty was nothing but to carry into effect the wishes of the public. He considered the House of Commons was not a fit place to make such an application as had been made that night, but it should be made to the committee that was ap pointed on the 3d of July, 1839. He would tyke the liberty of calling the attention of the House to the opi nion of a Noble Lord on this subject, who was quite as competent to give an opinion as either the hon. mover or seconder of this motion. The Noble Lord to whom he referred was the Earl of Aberdeen, who stated,. that after her Majesty bad given her consent to placing the statue on the arch in the Green-park, and after the committee had taken steps to give validity to this by a resolution, he considered the question settled. Was it to be supposed that the sub-committee were obstinate, for it was impossible fur them to take any other course He hoped the House would not commit the gross injus tice of doing that which he did not think they had a right to do, and which would be a great disrespect to the Crown ; her Majesty, having given her solemn pledge, ought not to be called upon to reverse it. He hoped the House would not come to any such resolution as the one proposed, and which, he thought, would be a gross in justice. . . - Mr. EWART then rose, but was for some time im perfectly heard. He maintained that, first of all, the subscribers ought to have been consulted ; next, the opinion of the architect, the gentleman who constructed the arch, ought to have been taken ' • and, as much as any, the sense of the country ought to h ave been attended to ; for he thought that if that were considered, the gentlemen on the committee have attained no very en viable immortality. Sir R. H. INGLIS wished to state his single difficulty. It was that her Majesty had been pleased to give her consent, and yet this House was to ask her to withdraw that consent. But he believed that when her Majesty gave her consent it was given when no plan was laid before her Majesty exhibiting the statue as it was pro posed to stand. If so, the question was still open to the House. If the decision of the intelligent community of London—if the opinions of the Members of that House were taken seriatim—the vast majority of the community, as well as the Members of that House, would be in fa vour of not placing the statue where it was proposed to be erected. In conclusion, he suggested that the pre sent works should be at once suspended, and that the Government should be at the expense of carrying out one of the other plans, and thus obviate what he could not help thinking would be a great monstrosity. Mr. F. FRENCH said that the Committee would of course have to administer the moneys of those who had subscribed towards erecting a statue to the Duke of Wellington on the arch, because the greater part of the money was subscribed for that purpose. But he had no objection, if the proposition should be satisfactory to the House, to lay the opinion of the House on this subject before the committee.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and "No, no," in the midst of which the HOD. Member re• sumed his seat', when Sir GEORGE GREY rose and said, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman would see, or rather infer, from the manner in which the motion had been entertained by the House, that they were averse to the placing of a statue upon the arch; and he (Sir G. Grey) must confess, after reading the correspondence to which allusion had been made, that he had a very strong objection to the pro posal of the committee—(Hear)—but until the Hon. Member had submitted to tke committee a statement as to the feeling of the House on the subject. He (Sir G. Grey) would not say that he would advise her Ma jesty to withdraw her consent to the erection of the statue on the arch, At the same time he must say that he should advise the House to listen to the proposal of the Hon. Member as to submitting a proposition to the committe.—(Hear, hear.) Sir F. TRENCH accordingly again rose and said that the Right Hon. Baronet had truly interpreted his feelings on the subject. He should indeed entertain the deepest regret if the statue were not allowed to be placed on the arch, and he would beg to say that if the statue were placed on the arch in the manner proposed by the Committee, it would be, in his opinion, one of the most magnificent ornaments to this groat metropolis. (Hear, bear, and great laughter.) He sincerely thought so, and he knew that there were a great many Members of the House who participated in that opinion.—(Hear, hear.) His proposition at present was, that the House should delay expressing its opinion on the subject until he had an opportunity of stating to the committee what appeared to be the feeling of the House on the subject.—(Hear, hear, and No, no.) He should be able to do that in the course of two days, and he hoped that the Hon. Member who had proposed the motion would, under the circumstances, withdraw it for the present .—( Hear, hear, and Divide.) Lord MORPETH said, that if the House consented to the withdrawal of the motion, he hoped that it would be understood that the Government would be empow ered to stop all the works.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BERKELEY— Mr. Speaker, with such an understanding, I have no objection to withdraw my motion, provided I have an assurance from the Noble Lord that the whole of the works are stopped—(Hear, hear)—and that they shall not be allowed to proceed with the statue until this House has expressed its opinion on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) Lord MORPETH—I think it is perfectly fair that the works should be entirely stopped till the com mittee signify their assent to the proposition that has been made, and till this House has an opportunity of deciding upon their resolution.—(Hear.) An How. MEMBER begged to ask the Hon. and Gal lant Member whether the committee had not pledged themselves to erect a statue which should be satisfactory to the public? Sir F. TRENCH—They were required to erect a statue which should be satisfactory to the Treasury, and the Treasury are now hostile to it.—(Laughter.) The motion was then withdrawn, and the subject al lowed to drop. WAYS AND MEANS. The order of the day was then read for going into a Committee of Ways and Means. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the sum of 4,000,000 L should be granted out of the Consolidated Fund for the use of her Majesty's service. agreed to. HALIFAX AND BOSTON M AILS. On reading the order of the day for going into a Com mittee of Supply, Mr. P. MILES rose, in pursuance of the motion of which he had given notice, to move for a Select Com mittee to inquire into the circumstances connected with the granting of the present contract for the conveyance of the mails from England to Halifax and Boston, and also into the circumstances connected with the granting of any new, or the extension of the existing contract for the same purpose. Although the Great Western Steam boat Company were in the habit of bringing letters and treaties for the Government, hitherto they had not re• ceived a farthing of compensation, and he for one thought this was most unjust. It had repeatedly been pointed out to the proper functionary of the Government, that the contract fur conveying the mail ought to be con ceded to that company ; and the late Government decided, just before going out of office, that no other contract should be signed until Parliament had had some opportunity of expressing an opinion upon the subject, but the present Government had disre garded this promise, and another contract had lately been entered into. What rendered it more important however that the matter should be inquired into was, that iettars brought by the Great Western Company were always delivered in Liverpool, and he, therefore, begged to move the amendment of which he had given notice.—(Hear, hear.) Captain BERKELEY seconded the motion, because he thought monopolies of eve r y ki n d ought to t be done away with. The contract for conveying the mails to America ought to be thrown open to all the world, and he thought a company managed with so much spirit and energy as the sareat Westeru Steam-boat Company de- . served encouragement at the hands of her Majesty's Government. The country was justly proud of the Great Western Railway, and they ought to be no less proud of the Great Western steam-ship —(Heer, hear.) Well, then, let it be borne iu mind that the company who had built that vessel was the first to prove that the Atlantic might be overcome by the power of steam; and during the Canadian insurrection they afforded con siderable service to this country in conveying and bring ing Government dispatches. Then, again, it was by the celerity of the Great Western steam-ship that the Right Hon. Baronet, the late Premier, was enabled to announce to the House, before quitting office, that the Oregon question was settled, and his announcement was confirmed by the Great Britain, another vessel belonging to the Great Western Steam-boat Company —(Hear, hear.) lie thought, then, under thsse circumstances, the company deserved some of the patronage of the Go vernment, and it could not be bestowed upon them in a better way than by giving them a contract for carrying the American mails.—(Hear, hear.) It must be borne in mind, too, that besides doing great services for the Government, the company had done much to promote and advance the mechanical science of the country. They it was who first practically develope 1 the screw system ; and he thought, at all events, they were en titled to a hearing if they did not participate in the pa tronage of the Government. Mr. GOULBURN said, as he was the party who made the present contract for the conveyance of the mails to America, he felt it incumbent upon him to say a few words. He should endeavour to show that the contract so made was the best for the public service. In 1839 steam navigation across the Atlantic was first esta blished, when Government advertised for parties to contract for carrying the mails to America, and as Messrs. Cunard were the only parties prepared to enter into such a contract, it was of course conceded to them. They were to provide three vessels, of three hundred horse-power each, to perform journies out and home, once a fortnight, and the Government agreed to pay them a compensation of 55,0001. per annum. It was subsequently found, however, that these vessels were not sufficiently powerful to navigate the Atlantic, and another contract was entered into, by which it was Agreed that Messrs. Cunard should provide five vessels of four hundred horse-power, which should be so built as to be made available for the service of the country in - times of war. Shortly afterwards another arrange ment was made for the conveyance of the mails to the North American colonies, and it was this arrangement which induced the late Government to think it would be better to send the mails vid New York instead of Boston. He said that the contract of 1841, not only required the conveyance of mails to North America twenty times a year, but gave the Admiralty power to require Mr. Cunard to put on vessels and double the number of mails for the year within nine months after notice. Shortly after this, a discussion arose as to the best method of conveying the mails to the North American colonies, and in 1845, a proposal was made by the United States of America to carry the mails overland to the colonies of the north, and it was thought better to have the mails carried by way of New York and not by Boston. He said, then, these mails had been regularly carried, as well during the winter months as when the season allowed of more certain voyages. The Government, however, instead of' remunerating Mr. Cunard to the amount to which he was entitled by the contract of 1841, which should have been 180,0001., cut him down to 145,000/. for forty-four voyages a . year. It had been stated by the Hon. Gentleman, that the cost was 4,5001. a voyage.—(The Hon. Member from the other side of the House "It was 4,5001.") He (Mr. Goul burn) would tell him what the original cost in whole was—it was 3,2901. But the .proposal made by the other companies was severally 3,750/. and 5,0001. a voyage, so that, measuring Mr. Cunard's merits by the amount of remuneration given him, his superiority was established by that, as well as by the uniform regularity and asiduity with which he had discharged his duties. It had been asked why the Government had not ac cepted the tender of the Great Western Company, and kept open two routes to North America ? But he (Mr. Goulburn) would ask any gentleman, whether a Govern ment, maintaining a double line of mails, would not have exceedingly increased the expense to the country ? But, besides, that company proposed to give up running early in November, and begin again only in April. Jr Cu nard, on the contrary, against the anticipations of the Admiralty, had faced and overcome the difficulties of running across these seas during the winter months. One other object was looked to in estabhshing th's mode of conveyance—that provisions were made for a time of war as well as of peace, so that the mai!s might run at all times. This establishment, he said, owed its origin entirely to the activity of the colonists of Nova Scotia and the neighbourhood, and he, for one, should have been sorry to do anything against the zeal and the energy of these colonists. Lord CLEMENTS moved that it should be an in struction to the Committee to consider the advantage of the mails to Halifax starting from the western eoast of Ireland. He said there was a gross neglect of Ireland. In Lord Grey's time the only admiralty station in Ireland had been removed, and since that time a route connecting the western coast of Ireland and North America hail been asked and as often refused. He thought, then, that it would tend much to the conciliation of Scotland, and to a closer union between America and this country, if a railway crossed Ireland to the west coast, conveying the mails that way to America. Mr. CHRISTIE said that he thought one very strong point with the Hon. Gentleman who had brought for ward the motion, and of which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goulburn) on the other side of the House had taken no notice, was, that this contract had been signed two days after the late Government had tendered their resignation, and were holding office only till another Government should be formed. This had been brought before the House at the time by a question, and the pre vailing opinion then was, that the contract would not be signed till a Government was formed ; and indeed, the Noble Lord now at the head of her Majesty's Govern- ment gave his assurance to the House that the contract would not he signed till further consideration had been given it. He hoped that some explanation of this would be given by some Member of the late Government, and also that a Committee would be granted to the lion. Gentleman the Member for Bristol on the subject. Mr. GOULBURN begged to explain that everything but the actual signature to the contract was done in this matter before the resignation of her Majesty's lute Ministers. Mr. SPOONER said, in answer to the remark, that Mr. Cunard was the first gentle man that had traversed the Atlantic in the winter time ; that the reason was, that he was the only gentleman that had be,n paid for doing so.—(Hear, hear.) The fair way would have been to offer to both companies remuneration for the carriage of the mails. The public did not complain of the manner in which Mr. Cunard had carried out the terms of his contract—every one must a d m it th at he had carried it out in a most satisfactory manner.— (Hear, hear.) The public, he contended, should be made cognisant of the terms of all contracts of this description.—(ltear, hear.) The Government had kept all t ;is matter in the dark, and of that the public had a right to complain. He had no doubt that his Right Honourable Friend had done his Ix st to wards securing the ablest contractor for the carriage of mails ; but he had at the same time deprived the public of competition.—(Hear, hear.) A most dangerous precedent had been est•i blished, and he hoped that the House would grant this Committee, for the purpose of making a full inquiry into the matter. Mr. GISIIORNE said that his commercial consti tuents highly disapproved of the conduct of the late Go vernment on this subject. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Goulburn) had no doubt given a most satisfactory answer to the Hon. Member for Weymouth (Mr. Christie) as to the signing of the contract, but he had not, in the course of his observations, exculpated himself from the charges of unfairness and injustice which had been brought against him. If the late Go vernment could show that they had acted justly, the public would of course be satisfied; but he was afraid that they could not. Under these circumstances, he hoped that the present G overnment wou ld grant the in quiry asked for.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MARK Pinups said that as this subject created a great excitement out of doors, he sincerely hoped that a Committee might be granted, for the pur pose of justifying the conduct of all parties concerned, and showing the public that no unfairness had been committed. He believed that the commercial interests oc this country were greatly indebted to the Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Canc,llor of the Exchequer, for the manner in which he had exered himself in obtaining for the country the earliest possible means of communica Lion with the United States, but ho thought that he had acted very prudently in establishing a monopoly in favour of Mr. Cunard. He was most anxious that the Com mittee should be granted, that the ausorn w teolltdna h vrtiet o hd le .t qu(tiehiseetaiaorbn, abuses, if b aot(w e iruhays f aeat u iantrs l Nery l vi y lcre, cohh.r a .t Coh n vadud:rornEi . d f )ap a ortae i dhL r rxi l e)tffi y wiy, shhfc.ta:e n sippt q bmele(pca u eidHoloitf i tgeion r einh e rttfialth d etGredn ae,deobrte i hnhlee n tn:toee t tar o wrtrtne , ehh.o:min, n h e i votingmeans meantf o r the t o a p t p h o r i o n w t maennyt discreditof the atth C fecbi o t,stecoyh m owenenn m rcaelot:o i ar t iatms t oreo e ci.grinp e tGen;poi eootiup h ntdsvnie e d,ienaetterii.r h hoo—ned y nedn., e m he en ( t Si h r ed it le l f ) t ee o l members of the Government that followed them would have s6,ned it. Had the contract not been signed by the late Government, they would have been guilty of a most shabby act. He therefore hoped that the Committee asked for would be appointed.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after giving a brief history of the circumstances connected with the granting of the contract to Mr. Cunard, said that he felt that that gentleman was the ablest person with whom the Government could have contracted for the conveyance of the mails to the United States, but he was by no means opposed to the appointment of a Com mittee, which would afford the House an opportunity of inquiring into the whole of the circumstancls.—(Hear.) He did not wish to say a word calculated to annoy the South-Western Company; they were fully entitled to stand well with the public ; they were the first to con struct large steamers to cross the Atlantic, and they had made a',; their own cost a great experiment lately with the splendid steam-ship the Great Britain. It was the duty, however, of the Government to make the best bargain they could for the public. He was so satisfied with the course the Government had taken that he should be the last person in the world to object to such a Committee as moved for by the Hon. Member. The adoption of such a course at the present time would l oa d, however, to the stoppage of the supplies, and he hoped, therefeee, that the Hon. Member would not press his motion. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. ABUSES IN THE MILBANK PRISON. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved, pursuant to notice, that n t ! f ie j p u e n t o c n o m o f p A l i E n g d woafrd curtainßa ker, a p b 7;7 resen ted et s o t ? n t g h e i n 1 2t the h Milbank Prison, be referred to a Select Committee, He did not propose to outer into the allegations of the poti. which the British Museum was open they'would find it was open for a greater number of hours in the year than any other in Europe. He coald also inform the House that 65,000 persons had read in the library last year, frreriter number of persons than had read in any other library on the Continent. It was a gratifying fact that not only the visitors but the readers of the library had increased greatly during the last few years. The former, according to the returns, had increased three fold the last six years. In speaking of foreign libraries, and the access given to them, it ought to be observed that there were secret police inside of them to watch over the proceedings going on, whereas they had no such thing as police inside of the British Museum.— (Hear, hear.) He begged leave to apologise for occupy ing the House so long- in the explanation he had made. Mr. P. BORTHWICK said, in speaking of the readers of the Paris library as compared with the British Museum, they ought to hear in mind that Paris was a much smaller city than London. He considered they might adopt, with advantage, the liberal arragements of the French Government. Sir D. NORREYS wished to remind the Hon. Member who last spoke, that the Paris library was only open to the public for two days in the week. Mr. BORTHWICK, in answer to that, would inform the House that he knew from his own knowledge that the library was open every day for students and those who wished to read. Sir D. NORREYS thought a Museum of this kind ought to be a truly national institution and embrace within it specimens in every department of science and art, bo' h national and historical relics, and specimens of architecture. An HoN. MEMBER said he saw there was a sum of 10,0001. put down for the purchase of old books, now he wished to know what this was for? Sir R. H. INGLIS replied that the parties who had charge of the library had made an elaborate report to the trustees, in which they pointed out its deficiencies, and amongst these deficiencies the library was sadly de fective in its stock of old books. On the fact being communicated to the Treasury, they generously agreed to devote 10,000/. a year for purchasing collections of old books to supply the deficiency. The vote was then agreed to. NAVY ESTIMATES. Mr. WARD, in submitting to the House the remain der of the navy estimates, claimed the indulgence of the House in consequence of the short time he had held his office, and said that had it not been for the liberal assis tance afforded to him by his predecessor, he should have been unable to undertake the task. He then recapitu latsd the votes which had been already granted by the House for the number of men and wages, and proceeded to say that on vote No. 2, victuals for seamen and marines, there was an increase of 34,5031. in consequence of the rise which had taken place in the price of provisions. To vote 4 he wished to call the attention of the House ; it was for a general register and record office for seamer. The department was very ably managed by Lieutenant. Brown, and it had operated as a great check upon de sertion in the merchant service, and also very bene ficially as regarded apprentices. He looked upon this office as a link between the royal navy and the merchant service, the resource from which an efficient sup ply of trained sailors might be drawn in a case of need ; and with, perhaps, some additional inducement to enter the navy, might, perhaps, prove the only rational sub stitute for the power of impressment. No subject would more occupy the attention or his colleagues during the coming recess than this.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the seaman's fund, the Board had been pressed to re vise a Bill introduced by the late Vice-President of the Board of Trade, but it had not been thought advisable so to do. The subject, however, should receive the fullest consideration during the recess. On the scientific branch of the estimate he would only remark that the in• crease was only 4701, and proceeded to the next vote, which was for the staff of the dockyards and fleet at home, on which there was an increase of only about 1,000/, The next vote was for the foreign establishments, and amounted to 3,902/, being an in crease of 945/. over that of last year. Vote No. 8 was a large one, being for the wages of artificers and labourers employed in the home establishments, and it amounted to 43,720/. The increase in the vote was caused by the increased repairs lately rendered necessary, and partly by the substitution of free for convict labour, in the dockyards, which was a considerable item in the expenditure. Upon vote No. 10 for naval stores there was a considerable increase over last year The total of the present vote was 1,636,4261., less 57,726/. for credits, and the increase was 437,285/, which had been caused by the increase of our establishments towards the close of last year, and the large purchases of hemp, coal, timber, and steam machinery which were consequently necessary. Vote No. 11 was for new works, improve ments, and repairs, and the net increase upon this item over last year was 40.464/. A principal expense had been the substitution of iron roofs for those of wood over the building slips, an improved plan, which he hoped would be generally adopted on account of the safety which was thus obtained agsinst accidents and loss by fire. Other items of expenditure under this head were 240,000/. for the new steam basin, and 200,0001. for the steam factory at Portsmouth ; but considering the creations of steam machinery on the French coast, it was impossible that this country could with respect to her own credit and safety remain behind. —(Hear, hear.) The remaining votes were as follow: Medicines, medical stores, &c., 21,273/.; miscellaneous service, 71,075/ ; half-pay to officers of the navy and royal marines, 705,4481.; military pensions for naval service, 486,3221.; for packet service, 544,5871.; civil pen sions—freight on account of the army and ordnance departments, 166,6261.; freight on account of the home department, 92.859/. ; Post-office department (packet service).673,lBo/. This last item defrayed the expenses of the operations of the packet service department in all quarters of the world to which our empire ex tended. He had gone through all these items with as much brevity as possible, and he trusted that he had not trespassed unwarrantably on the attention of the House.—(Hear, hear.) No doubt the expendi ture was very large—seven and a half millions—and it was only right that the most accurate scrutiny should be exercised—(Hear, hear)—but he did not think that it could be shown that the amount of the esti mate exceeded the requirements of the ease.—(Hear, hear.; For what had passed the present Board of Ad miralty was not responsible, They had taken the votes and accounts as they had been bequeathed to them by their predecessors, but they must say that they could tee no sufficient grounds for finding. fault with them.— (Hear, hear.) He would not hold out delusive hopes as to the future. He thought there was nothing more to be desired than candour, and in candour he was bound to say that he did not think that any reduction in this estimate was either desirable or probable, or even possi ble, as lan; as the naval establishments of other coun tries continued on the same footing that they now occu pied. In his opinion it would not be safe, nor fit, nor honourable for England again to run the risk which, on at least two occasions in the course of the last five years, she hail incurred of being taken unawares and at disadvantage in the event of any unforeseen emergency suddenly arising. —(Hear, hear.) Such had been the neglect of her naval establishments, that if on either of these occasions any sudden rupture of our peaceful relations with other countries had un fortunately occurred, we should have been found totally unprepared for warfare. Such a state of things ought never again to be permitted.—(Hear, hear.) It was be cause of a not unnatural unwillingness on the part of the authorities of the Admiralty to cause alarm amongst other nations that suet) a state of things had arisen, and that there was unhappily wanting thfii concentration of resources, which in a great naval establishment was es tentially requisite, in order that the country might not he vulnerable, and which had not been realised until within a very recent period.—(Hear, hear.) Up to the present time Woolwich was the only steam factory of any description we possessed, those at Plymouth and Portsmouth not being as yet complete ; and surely it could not be contended that this was sufficient for our exigencies, regard being had ' to the foreign steam navies on the Mediterranean, and in other parts of the world. There was one desirable reform which he was very anxious to see accomplished—he meant an im provement in the mode of manning the navy, for he did not think it was right or at all judicious to rely on the system of improvement for meeting any very serious emergency.—(Hear, hear.) It was a coarse and rude expedient, not to be trusted to for the manning of such a navy as that of England in the event of a maritime war.--(Hear, hear.) It was unsafe and imprudent to have recourse in such an emergency to untrained and unskilful men, who knew nothing of the practice or science of gunnery.—(Hear.) It would be better far to ' fall back upon the judicious system of recalling those elements of strength, which were now scattered all over the world—the vamen engaged in our mercantile navy.—(Hear, hear.) Besides, he considered the habit which now prevailed a foolish and irrational one, that of disbanding and breaking up the whole crew of a ship when she came home after a voyage, and leav ing the men with perhaps no other resource for livelihood than to go into foreign services. —(Hear, hear.) These were matters which must engage the serious attention of the present Board of Admiralty, whose object it should be to improve on the example of their predecessors. Their principal study should be to organise, complete, and systematise the plans which already existed, and to propose snch new ones as might seem good. He (Mr. Ward) felt no hostility to any country whatever, nor entertained any aggressive view in any quarter.—(Hear, hear.) He felt as deep an anxiety as any other person could possibly entertain, that the world's peace should be preserved, but he was sure that the best security for the continuance of tran quillity and good order was the conviction on the part of other nations, that as far as we were concerned, we would not permit a breach of peace to be attempted with impunity.—(Hear, hear.) Our strength was the best security for the peace of the world—(Hear, hear) —and this conviction on the part of other countries would be best promoted by a proper organisation of the vast resources in ships and men, which England pos sessed to such an extent, and which, it made available, would still continue to render this country the most illustrious for her maritime establishment in the world. The question having been put on the first vote, Sir C. NAPIER admitted that he had listened with great pleasure to the speech of the Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the Admiralty, who had shown a degree of information which was exceedingly creditable to him, and which it was indeed not a little surprising to find in one who had kperl fo F o ejlopt a time in the departme nt with which he was at present tionnected.—(Hear, hear.) He was really at a loss to think how the Hon. Gentie man managed to have concentrated such a mass of in formation within so brief a period. Ile bad arranged it, too, in a systematic and perspicuous manner, and he (Sir Charles Napier) could with truth affirm that a clearer Elucidation of the who's system of the navy be had never heard. lie concurred unreservedly . in almo4 Gentleman, and PaTtiPalarlY approved of wh a t h e h a d e.r.y proposition that bni fallen f Loin th e rfi nl. G the navy.— ( s il aid ear t:, s h p e e: r t , i ) ng ti t h e e W m as od a e is :f eQ m m a v n ie n t i e p i g y ofthe same tioner. The petition contained a number of charges of cruelty and misconduct against the Governor of the prison towards the persons confined in that prison. These charges could, he thought, be all substantiated, if a Select Committee were appointed to inquire into the subject. One of the charges was that the prisoners were sentenced to seven (lays' confinement, upon bread and water, for opening their bibles and reading therein. during the time of oivine service. Another case was that of a prisoner who was sentenced to receive 100 lashes for cutting a cat on the wall with a pair of scissors; and that, in consequence of this corporal pun ishment, he had been confined for a period of ten weeks, during which he was not allowed any religious instruc tion, nor was the chaplain allowed to visit him. In the former case the Governor had exceeded his duty by confining the prisoner for seven days, for by the regu lations of ihe prison he had only the power of confining a prisoner for three days. As to the second case, the prison regulations regarding corporal punishment, it was ordered that no whip should be used except such as had been approved by the prison inspectors, and which had their seal upon the handle. In this case, however, the night before the punishment was to take place, the governor sent out for a lash of double the weight, which lash he had wound round with wax cord, which in creased the severity of the punishment to a considerable extent. There was also the case of a prisoner who was confined fin• twenty-five days, and kept on bread and water, till he died a mere skeleton. Four suicides had been committed, and twelve prisoners had attempted to commit suicide, but had been prevented in consequence of the vigilance G f the warders. There was another practice to which he would call the attention of the House. The governor was in the habit of raising a false alarm of fire, and a hundred and twenty persons have been called up out of their beds in the depth of winter for what is called " fire practice;" and this was in the habit of being done for the purpose of entertain ing the dinner friends of the governor. There were also charges of favouritism, and numerous others, which he would not then detaiu the House by entering into. An inquiry into these charges ought to take place, and it would facilitate the solution of the problem of the best method to treat the criminal. He said it advisedly, and in his place in that House he was prepare d to prove every charge which was alleged in the motion. Sir G. GREY said an inquiry was made already by the Government into the facts, and the charges were re ported not to have been substantiated. There had been only four suicides out of 11,000 persons who had been committed, the whole convict population that were sentenced to be transported passing first through Mil bank. He would promise to lay before the House the report, and it the House did not consider that report sufficient, he would agree to any inquiry the lion. Member chose. Mr. HUME said, after the frightful atrocities which were daily coming to light from the Andover Committee, his confidence was exceedingly shaken in persons who were possessed of authority. He would, therefore, re commend the adoption of the suggestion of the Hon. Member. Captain PECHELL would recommend his lion. Friend to persevere, for the public would not be satisfied, after the charges that bad been made, that an inquiry should be delayed. Mr. SPOONER considered that the Hon. Member would come with a stronger case to the House if he would consent to the suggestion. Mr. AGLIONBY said he hoped no delay would take place. An inquiry should be made, and not postponed; the characters of public servants were involved, and that rendered investigation imperative. The former was conducted in the walls of a prison, with no one present to represent the accuser, and it was alleged that answers were put in the mouths of the witnesses, and that their answers were stopped when they seemed to imply the truth of the charges. The public would never be satisfied unless there was a full and searching investigation. Mr. E WART said, that only one side of the case was referred to the inspectors, and consequently the investi gation was of little use. He considered that a pod case was made out for an inquiry, and he should support the motion. Sir R. INGLIS said that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State, merely stated that the House was not yet in a condition to pronounce an opinion on the subject, and merely asked for a brief delay till he male inquiry into the allegations. He thought such a course was the prop,,r one under the circumstances. He would support Mr. B. Escorr supported the motion. He thought the inquiry should be granted, as it was a very fit sub ject for the House to investigate, and he could not un derstand why it was refused. Mr. CHRIS - CIE would vote for the inquiry without hesitation. flee report referred to by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State ought to have been laid on the table before this. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would grant the Committee. Mr. HENLEY opposed the motion. If the House went into inquiries of this sort there would be no end to them. The course proposed by the Right Hon. Gen tleman was the proper one under the circumstances. The House then divided when there appeared— For the motion Against it Majority red/StUatSE theU The House then went into Committee of Supply. SpoposBRITISH Mau; Sir R. INGLIS of 45,40GL be granted to defray the expenses of the British Museum. Mr. HUME said that the present was a large sum, compared to what was fOrmerly granted to that esta blishment. He thought there should be a responsible board of managers to superintend the outlay of so large a sum of money. There was no establishment in the country where so large an amount was granted without some control on the part of this House, yet this board was wholly irresponsible. The trustees consisted of three classes of high official men, and he asked if the present system was not one extremely objectionable ? The board was composed of too many individuals, and the result was, that the management fell into the hands of a few individuals. In 1836 a Committee sug gested the propriety of forming a responsible board; and, wish the exception of the raising the salaries of the officers of the institution, which amounted altogether to 19,0001., no other recommendation of that Committee was attended to. He thought a change should take place in this system. He was really at a loss to know what branch of the Government to address on the sub ject, but he hoped the nutter would be taken up, for the public would require that a responsible body be ap pointed. On Tuesday and Thursday the Museum was open only to private parties. That was the system of exclusion carried on ; and he wished to know why a public institution should be open only to private parties. The public servants were compelled to attend on those days, and he thought that while the public money was ex pended every well conducted person ought to be admitted. It might be said that it was for the benefit of artists. He had inquired of artists, and he was informed that they went on all days whether the Museum was attended or not, so that this excuse was invalid. There was another point which required attention, and that was whether the Museum should be open after five o'clook. The experiment was tried, but it did not suc ceed, for only seven persons per hour entered after that time, and yet nearly 60 persons were required to be in attendance. If he had the power the Museum should remain open on Sundays, for it would afford a means of amusement to the artisans, which would keep them from the gin-shop. Daring the hours that the gin-shops were open, he would open the National Gallery and the British Museum in competition. The artisans were fond of going to the country on Sundays, but on rainy days they had no resource but the gin -shop, unless they adopted such measures. He would no longer detain the Committee from more important business, but would earnestly press what he had said on the attention of the Government. In the year 1843 no less than 247,929 persons went over the establishment, and in 1845 no less than 685.858 persons went over it. So large an attendance required more and better attendance than was at present employed He regretted, however, to state that the number of visitors to the reading-room had decreased, as well as the number of artists who used to attend. He did not make these observations from any unwillingness to give the money, but ho certainly conceived that wh:n so large a sum was expended, it ought to be made as useful as possible. He therefore recommended to his Hon. Friend the course which he had pointed out, in order to etTeet the saving he had wished. Mr. E WART entirely agreed with the tenor of his Hon. Friend's remarks, but he did not mean to address his observations to the whole establishment, but simply to the library. On the continent any man might enter a public library without any restriction, and receive the greatest civility from the librarians. In the British Museum the rules were, that before any person could go to read in the room, he must be introduced by some per son of respectability, or high rank. Any recommenda tion from a public mar. was the only satisfactory reference, and the only one which would ob tain admission for the applicant. Such a vs . tein existed nowhere but in England. He would also ask, what was the use of the number of duplicates of books ? Could they not found another library at Westminster with them, and so afford i n . creased accommodation. He would say no more, as he had publicly called attention to what was a public evil. Sr IL H. INGLIS said, that the complaint made by the Hon. Member for Montrose was, that there was no responsibility for the expenditure of this large sum. li e begged to say, that the responsibility existed with the trustees, and it remained with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to see their recommendations carried out. The Hon. Member also said that the ma nagement should be vested in a Board of Manageme nt ; but that, he thought, would not be a wise course, nor would it lead to a better system of management than now. The Honourable Member had also said that the Museum was only open for three days a week, but this was not the fact. It was really open for five. days. There were certain days open to the general public, while Tuesdays and Thursdays were open for artists and men of science. He thought it was of great advantage to the public that these parties should have the opportunity of pursuing their studies in quietness, which could not be the case if large bodies of people were passing through, and therefore it was a wise and proper arrangement to have three days for the public, and two for those engaged in artistic and scientific pur suits. With regard to children, it had been objected that they soh crald be denied admission under eight years of age ; but as sem* limit m ust be made, he thought that age a reasonable period of limitation, Before that age, there was some danger of damage being done, unless children were well looked after. The Hon. Member who last addressed the House (Mr. Ewart) complained of the way in which the library was managed, and the difficulty' cf narties not being admitted without a pass. He (Sir ti. Inglis' s believed that in Faris passes had to be ob tained before parties could be ki ds4tted into the public library. Mr. EWART said that he had been repeatedly in the Paris library, and no pass whatever was required, Sir R. INGLIS 4.4i.a ie they looked Q th 9 "14 opihion with the Hon. Member as to its being ex ceedingly improper and, indeed, exceedingly dishonourable to this country, that the naval establishment should ever be in such a condition that in the event of a sudden emergency we should be taken at a disadvantage.—(Hear, hear.) Everything ought certainly to be ready at a moment's warning, so that we might never be taken by surprise. —(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the new Board of Admiralty would look vigilantly to the discharge of their duties, and display more zeal and ability than their predecessors in cal-, of whom, by the way, he was surprised to find that only one had thought it worth his while to be present in his place on the present occasion.—(llear.) The mode of manning the navy was unquestionably a matter of the most serious importance. In the year 1841 it was the opinion of him (Sir C. Napier), and of several other naval officers whose opinions might be supposed to be of some value. that the navy was very inaperfectly manned. The High Hon. Baronet, who then came into power, ad mitted that he was of the same opinion, and ac cordingly introduced a scale on which the service was for the future to be supplied, but he did not follow up his own system, and the consequence was that there was still great cause of complaint in this department. No ships, it had been said, were for the future to be sent out to sea which were not manned in admirable style. There were, however, seven or eight sail of the line which were now afloat. Would it be contended that the sail of the line now afloat were manned in admirable style? Quite the contrary. He had no hesitation in saying they were improp rly manned. If they were in spected, it would be found that they were manned not with a first-rate crew, but with a crew two rates below that, and that the ships were filled up with marines.— (Hear, hear.) He asked any naval officer in command , of a man-of.war whether he would prefer having the number of marines on board doubled, rather than to have her properly manned with competent seamen?— , (Hear, hear.) The system was a most improper one, and he protested against it accordingly. The Gallant Officer opposite (Captain Berkeley), whom he was de lighted to find again a Lord of the Admiralty, had left that department some years ago under circumstances as honourable as those under which any public man ever resigned office.—(Hear.) He went out because he could not see the navy manned as he wished it to be. It was to be hoped that his opinion on this important subject had undergone no change, but that now that he was in office, he would abide manfully by the views which he had promulgated so emphatically when out of power, and take care that no ships should go to sea that were not manned in the first style, and in all respects pro perly equipped.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that if the Gallant Officer and the other new authorities at the Ad miralty manifested a desire to effect these desirable changes, the House of Commons would back them zea lously, and supply them in a generous spirit with the funds requisite for carrying these projects into execu tion.—(Bear.) He would not, on the present occasion, trespass on the attention of the House by discussing the votes one by one, having on Tuesday evening addressed them on the subject at considerable length ; but there was one vote he could not forbear alluding to. It was that which was designed to cover the expenses of the dockyards and naval stores. The money here voted appeared to him to be quite too pro fuse. If anything like order or economy had pre vailed he certainly did think that they might have dimi nished a million and a half of money in the expenses of the dock-yards and stores.—(Hear, hear.) He had here again to complain, as he had complained a thousand times before, of the gross defects of our present system of naval architecture. The ships which were constructed under that system—he would not say of them that they were absolute failures—but he certainly thought, and every naval officer must say the same, that they were bad men-of-war. They looked very charmingly in harbour, but to judge of them properly you should see them in a gale of wind, when it would be found that they would roll 45 degrees leeward, and 43 degrees windward. He trusted that the new Board of Admiralty would perceive the evils of the present system, and ac knowlede,e the necessity of adopting a new plan. There was another point he was anxious to allude to. He meant the enormous expense which had been incurred since 1800 in cutting down ships of war. They had recently taken fmr 72-gun ships and four frigates—good men-of-war, or at least fair men of-war—and these they had cut down to make block-ships of.—(Hear.) The practice was an inexcusable one. Why should men-of-war be thus sacri ficed? If block ships were required, what was easier than to take old hulks, mount guns on them, and to tow them by steam boats to the positions it was desirable they should occupy? The cost of repairing these block ships had been set down at 18,0001, but he would take upon . him to say that the cost of these ships would not be less than twenty thousand pounds a piece.— (Hear, hear.) Independent of that, there were engines put into them at an enormous expense, and he would answer for this, that those four sail of the line and four frigates, when transmogrified into block-ships, would cost no less than half a milliou of money. Let them but wait until they had obtained a bill of expenses, and they would find that they would cost little less than the sum he had mentioned. And what was the use of them? Why, they would be absolutely useless. They would be put in dock with the machinery on board, and they would be totally useless altogether Perhaps he would be told," Oh, no, those vessels are intended to go to sea ; we will send them into the Downs." He (Sir C. Napier) asked, could they not send six vessels into the Downs with the same facility ? Now, suppose those block-ships were in the Downs and a westerly wind set in, and the enemy instead of going to the Downs pro ceeded to Plymouth, those block-ships might be able to sail not more than five or six mil, s an hour, while the enemy's vessels could sail ten or twelve miles in the same time, and what then, he (Sir Charles Napier) asked, what then' l / 4 would become of the block-ships ? (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to their steam-boats, he complained of the mode in which they were built. He went on board of one the other eat' in Woolwich, and she was exactly in the same position as the first steam • boats they had built, and the engines and other parts were exposed to shot. He, therefore, conceived that they should change the present system. It was per fectly easy to do so, and he was sure that they would find that it would do a great deal of good. He had been allowed to build a steam man-of aver, and he had arranged that it should carry provisions for two hundred men, but when he went to look at the establishment of the Sidon, a paper from the Admiralty was shown to him, and that paper stated that she was to carry provisions for 240 men. But if they were to fit her out with a view to carry the order of the Admiralty into execution, she would, like other steam-boats, be too deep in the water to be useful.—(Hear' hear.) He would suggest that the present Board of Admiralty should form some sort of commission, to investigate and report what was the proper system of building steam-boats, and thus save the country from the enormous losses to which it was subject during every year for the last twenty years. The Secretary of the Admiralty had said that steam boats were in their infaccy. Yes, they were so in the navy ; but it was not so in the merchant service. They were in their infancy for the last twenty years in the navy, and how long would it be before they came to maturity ? If they went to Scotland, Liverpool, and Ireland, they would find steam-boats belonging to the merchant service that could stand every weather—(Hear.) Sir G. COCKBURN felt, after the statement which had been mad,. by the Gallant Officer on his left (Sir Charles Napier) that it was quite right he should say a word on the subject. In the first place, it was said that after they (the late Board of Admiralty) came into office, they agreed in thinking that ships-of-war should go to sea fully manned ;but at the same time, with re spect to the ships that were kept in the Channel, he explained at the time—two or three years ago—he felt that they could exercise those ships without being fully manned. They were enabled, with tne stun they gut from Parliament, to send more vessels where they were wanted—for instance, to Brazil and China—than if they had those vessels of the line fully manned at home. As to sending a double number of marines on board, it was exceedingly useful if they were looking out for the chance of a war, for a portion of them were lately en listed, who were fit to act as soldiers, but it was ne cessary to have some experience at sea.—(Hear, hear.) He was old enough to remember the last war, when they were obliged to put soldiers on board, and they all got dead sick.—(Bear, hear.) In the event of a war they had now a vote for 40,000 men; but if they had the vessels fully maenecl, they should have 43,000 or 44,000 men. They should, he repeated, send the marines to sea, to get sea legs, and give practice to the officers and men. As to the next charge, with respect to the cutting down of the block-ships, the House would remember that it was not a proposal of the Admiralty at all. There was an order from the Government to appoint a commission to visit all their ports, and see what was necessary to be done for their protection, in consequence of the French having go!, a steam navy. That commission went round to the diffemnt ports, and the recommendation of that commission was adopted by the Government, requiring that a certain number of line-of-battle ships and of frigates, should be prepared to aid the batteries in the different positions in which they might be attacked, and it was thought wise that a screw propeller should be nut to each of them to enable them to shift their position from side to side, where the attack of the enemy made it necessary. One of those vessels was to be completed with the screw, and the order was that others were nut to be completed until that one was tried. His Hon. and Gallant Friend had stated that they had not a steamer that was a perfect man-of-war. They had often heard that statement before, and it was contra• dieted over again. He might mention an officer well known to the country, Sir Rimond Lyons, now Roust, r of Greece, and in his opinion the Terrible and Devasta tion were most efficient vessels. The Gon (French vessel) was not to be compared to the Devastation ; and it was quite right in his (Sir G. Cockburn's) opinion, as they had ships of the size in France, that in England they should have some ships of the same descrip tion, and therefore it was that those ships were built. Sir CHARLES NAPIER said that what he said was that not one of our steam-vessels was fitted for a man-of war, as their boilers and their works were so high that a shot would permanently injure them. What he de sired was that the Government would order a survey of the steam-boat 4, and report what vessels were fit for war. Captain BERKELEY considered that there had been too much amateur building of vessels for serlice. The difficuly was to have their men of-war properly manned; and he, in his official capacity, would endeavour to rem edy that defect. Captain PECHELL was not one of those who were accustomed to assert that they had not a good and serviceable navy.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the promise given would be persevered in. It gave him great satisfaction to have heard what had failed from the Hon. Member, the Secretary of the Ad miralty, with regard to the manning of our ships; and he hoped that N.yhen be found himself under such restric tions as poi in be able to do justice to the British sea men, he would At once give up his post of authority. The llon. Secretary had very clearly explained the amount of votes, but he had AO show} so distinctly how he intended tn apply them. They had not been told ilqw t 1 a obipt were to be enaploied nos, weN, • they told how or what shi is were to be employed in the suppression of the slave trade. He knew that great power had been taken away from our cruizers , bu t he thought that some statem e nt s h o uld be made of w hat had been the successes of our cruizers in conjunction with those of France. He would also wish w know what was to be the policy of the present Board with re gard to the employment of the officers, because, dur,ng the late cruize, it had been found necessary to remove from the dock-yard, a superintendent whose express in . structions were never to s l ee p o ut of the dockla re . l When the admir a l s com pl a i ne d o f th e f a ct, they found it necessary to send to the Medit erra n e an station to rob it 01 its admiral. Did they intend to employ admirals and vice: admirals to command their fleets, or did they or did they not think them competent to such command? 14 , e . wished also to k now w h a t were t h e i r i n tentions wi th regard to the present regulations with regard to the car riage of specie, and was it to be allowed to continue upon its present footing? He would proceed to call the atten tion of the House to the complains of the class of officers called paymasters and pursers. The promises of extra pay or half-pay to those officers held out had not been realised. They were divided into three classes of 31 '' 45., and ss. per day. The pursers had willinglY sur fi; reniered part s o f th e i r sea emo l uments f or the hene of their brother officers on half- p y, a and it was e nus" dered that, i n consequence of that surren der they we re entitled to an additional shilling per day. They dered 16,000/. annually, and the Government, so contrived matters, that over 4,0001. per annum rernaineii baler.° so con" in their hands. Their arrangements were also trived that many of the oldest officers were kept doeed upon the lowest list of half-pay. He thought that d attention of the House and Government should be eau` 4 to this serious grievance, for upwards of 100 officers' surrey' of 30 and 40 years' service, had been taken from high class of pay, and removed entirely to the lo w e i r grade, and he had no doubt that such injustice was Ice" felt by them. Admiral DUNDAS said what the Hon. Member ha d stated should have his best consideration. Sir G. COCKBURN explained the circumsta nces under which the late Admiralty Board had acted in rel, i ; tion to the officers wh ose case had been stated by the Gallant Member, and informed t ne H ouse that, 11 dr , the circumstances, they could not have acted otherwise in the matter than they had done. After a few words from Captain Harris, Mr. 110 10 ' and Lord Worsley, Captain PECHELL asked whether the Admiralty intended to pursue the previous policy of keepiog t cruizers on the coast of Af r i ca , an d w h et h er they well°. to keep up their present compliment of ships. Mr. WARD, in reply, was inaudible in the gallery The vote Was then agreed to. The following votes were then agreed to. 129,7141. for salaries of the officers of the Board °( the Admiralty. 9,5011. for salaries of officers in the General Registry office. 140,1151. for salatini of officers in scientific departments in the navy. The following votes were then agreed to, without di s : cussion:-23,9021. to def r ay th e expenses o f naval estasi blishments abroad; 752,427/. for the paymentof wage s t h , artificers, labourers, &c., employed in the naval es'abn s ei ments at home ; 43,720/. fo r th e p ayment o f t h e Olg of the artificers, labourers, & c ., emp l oye d i n the nave establishments abroad. After a few words from Captain PECFIELL, the vn t : of 436,426/., for the expense of the naval stores, &C., °is agreed to. 126,8101. for the new works in the naval establist; ments at home was then agreed to, after a few vv ol :4 from Captain HARRIS and Captain PEcHELL, who P' es he hoped th e case o f t h e h a l f - pay officers, whose crta had not been p ro p er l y attended to, would be taken In consideration by the Government. 21,273/. was then agreed to for the purpose of def rsf. ing the expenses of the medical establishmer.ts abroal o 71,075/. for miscell aneous naval i!‘.2, - rvices vas °- agreed to, without di=cussion. After a few words from Captain Pechell, Sir George Cockburn, Sir Charles N a p ier, and Admiral D u ndas, of 486,3224, for the pensions of military officers, If agreed to. 156,5481. for civil pensions. 166,626/. for transports. 92,859/. for convicts. 544,5871., to defray the expense of the packet serVi; was then agreed t o , a f ter a few observations 000 C. NAPIER. the of 6s. 104. (b e i ng th e l ast vote) to defray the 0;-ho of the naval exp en dit ure over t h e last year, was agreed to. t The House th e n resume d , t h e Chairman reP °- ied a p progress, and th e re p ort was or d ered to b e b rou ghC on Monday next. COMMONS' INCLOSURE BILL. b a d Lord MORPETH brought up a clause which been agreed to. The - Bill was read a third time and passed. POOR REMOVAL BILL. This Bill was postponed until Monday next. The other orders of the day were then dispoff— k , and the House adjourned at a Quarter p as t O ne o'cloc LORD BROUGHAM AND A C H NESE WITNESS. e s it in In the vast round o f L ord Brougham's attsininee row Chi turnnese heos out that he is practically and deeply tlogy ; and as knowledge is b it af l s e h a o! d d i v o o v r e c r e o one c of h power, this acconapliNhment gave him, last week, a °3-s c re a n si i ( ti m rk n ah s The e e. Chinesehis s ore House of Lot*? sitting on appeals. The individual s Who came under Lord. Brougham's pastoral charge sKowhan, a f ew ale ser vant, and a witness in th as e wl . l and the immediate sub' th flock. ject of his hortatiotts was an oath, which the witln declined to take. The occurrence twas highly *nteresill , Lof „ as iliustrating. not only tne extent Broughatn's attainments, but also the - workieg the the oath in judicial forms. No sooner W 55 d witness pr o d uce d, th an L or d Brougham exhib ite d laudable an x i e ty th a t th e so l emn ceremony r t ber be observed in all its int egr ity ; h e "i nqu i re d wß e for s it was not required of her t o b rea k h er sau cer bo ugh she gave her evidence ?" Of course it was. Al tb° o rs the British public, especially one's maid-servant s, ns too forgetful of the awful fact, the breaking of e ll a r and saucers is, in Chinese, nothing else but sweart s : and that wholesale crash which is so terrible to 11° :ss, wifely ears, is in truth a volley of oaths. The wit: however, raised a question anterior to the details cne n the oath ; she was reluctant to be sworn a o ° l l time, on the plea that her gods would be very a n i i" t c, with her ! The Noble Lordproved q ua ' quite e en' difficulty this new '• • oculty ; p roc l a i m i ng, by-the-br n sad allegiance for British peers 1 " Tell her,' he ads -d to the interpreter, " that her gods will punish 115, not her, if anything wrong is done ;" and he afterive' sho added, " Tell her that no calamity can befit! her if le s will consent to he sworn." At length, her setup were appropriat e ly vanqu i shed by the threat thl/"'to she persisted in refusing, she should be committed prison. The recourse to that hint discloses a rellie r s i able similarity i n t h e re li g i ous opinions of Chins 6r- England; for in this country a l so i t i s customary to Ore f come religious scrupl es t o ta ki ng t h e oath b y threate li ° , imprisonment. K ow h an was d u l y qua li f i ed to give °en deuce by overcoming th e a t tract i on o f co h es i on betw o the particles of th e saucer — we h ope i t was or thod „, " China"—and the n ex t d a y s h e was b roug h t b e fore l' l 4 peers, Lord Brougham desired the interpreter to tell e; " that now she h as b een sworn, if s h e d oes nut speah,,es truth her gods will punish her." Th e i n t e rpreter tli c r s made her acquainted with the Noble and Learned Lorsre retuurk.—Lord Brougham—Now ask her, " Wb° r, her gods ?" I n re ply, s h e sa id, t h roug h t h e i n t e rprets , that the chief was Buddah.—L or d B roug h am —Tell he that 13uddah will punish her most severely if she cl° e , not speak the truth ; and th a t s h e w il l b e punished a's. in this world if s h e d oes not speak the truth. Thl 4 being explained, sh e re pli e d i n Chi nese, " I will spea k the truth." Lord Brougham had fully gain -d his poi 0" in forcing the witness to give a satisfactory gage as t° the truth of her evidence.—Spectator. THE MEM O I RS OF THE REIGN OF GEORGE T Bs 0 9 SECOND, EY H ORACE W ALPOLE—Edited by the. o. Lord Holland, j ust pu b lished for the first time in the ne, l v`l• 00 fOrm, in three volumes, will be a most acceptable a cquisn: be to all librari es . K nown as the son of the ablest Minister f " b i g age produded (Si r R o b ert W a l pole), and having manY_°_icoh, nearest friends and re l a ti ves mem b ers at different Pe' ~ase ither of the Governm en t or o f t h e O ppos i t i on, i t is incri• eJ sible to imagine an individual more favourably circumsts",et than Horace Walpole to recor d the stirring scenes and g events which made the reign o f G eorge t h e S econ d 9 ' re l ent markable. But to these advantages must be added a! a end in pourtraying the characteristics of his contemporarie' , a so a vivacity in describing the scenes in which they figur e r , t ber conspicuously, in which he is with ou t a r i val. In no re d work can the reader hope to become so thoroughly acV.t o le, with the features of such statesm en as Sir Robert IVs L j or Bolingbroke, Pulteney, John D u k e of Bedford, the i th° the Townshends, the Grenvilles, Chatham, Fox, an`"„ te . , other great names that ad orne d t h e Cabinet and the Sell°'„"eerr or of Chesterfield, George S e l wyn, &c. —politicians, 13°111;eits who seemed to care m uc h more for the reputation 0' .00 than the fame of senators, though they possessed consider:l pretensions to both characters. f Si t On the 15th of next month the inau uration Walter Scott's statue in Edinburgh is to take g place , dill much splendour, to which a procession of Freemasolis contribute not a little. BIRTH On the'lBth inst at Dublin, th S elady of A. Peebles , 944 Ca On ptain the in th2lste 59thinst., . Regiment the lad,y of of th e Rev. G. F. tX3 a daughter. !a bet, Minlster of St. Mark's, Horselydown, of a daughter. 0 .„.00 On the 22d inst., at Chipping Ongar, E ssex , Mrs. NY Baker, of a son. grS• On the 23d inst., at Bowden Hall, Gloucestershire , Hutchinson S w i nn y, o f a son , still-born. of On the 234 inst., at Cardiff, South Wales, the lady Major 37th Regiment, f a dauhter. Be d' On the 24th inst, Mrs. Walford, o of Char g lotte-street , ford-square, of a son. MARRIE. ,i; ub f94', At St. George's, Ramsgate, Cons D tantine George B i ;lter of Upper Clapton, t o S usanna Eli zabeth, Younges t da of the late J. P. Leigh, Esq., of Clapton. On the 21st inst., at Brighton, the Rev. Morton S urn- M. A., of Arley Chapel, Cheshire, to Margaret Maria 11 .6 car mond, Youngest daughter of the Rev. Philip Le GeY t ' of I.‘laraen, Kent. DIED. On the 19th inst., at Southampton, the Rev. John el. Il l' Gooch, Rector of Binegar, SomersetAire. n. On the 20th i ns t ., at Kingstown, R ear -Ad m iral 3. 39 , d 3 1. On the 21 s t inst., at Gravesend, R. Moss, Esq.. 311 1 ' On the 22d inst., at Beaumont -street, Portland - In s " George F oreman. et l On the 22d. inst., at Stoke-Newington, Mr. Robe rt Evans. On the 23d inst., at Brixton, Mrs. Biggs, relict of the Into Mr. R. Biggs. London: 112. }To. Printed and Published by AIUR DO YOUNG , O. r rre civet Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, N 0.112, Strand, in t",,, of the Savoy. in tbe Cotuity of Atidd Satarw," 25. 1846.