The Sun. — London, England, 1812-03-27 00:00:00

COMMON HALL. A meeting of the Livery of London was held yes terday in the Guildhall of the City, to take into con sideration the propriety of " expressing their feel ings sigd opinions on the unprecedented and embar rassa situation of the Country, and to adopt such measures, either by Resolutions or Petitions, as may be thought necessary for rrotnoting an inquiry into the state of Public AfEtirs, fbr reforming Public Abuses, and for redressing those manifold grievances under which the Country labours, and, above all, for promoting a Reform in the Commons House of Parliament, the corrupt state of 'which has been the great soutco of our national evils." The LORD MAYOR came forward to . request that Liverymen present could give every persim who -, ifiempted io address them a candid hearing. WAITIIMAN then presented himself to move a . vatiety of Resolutions. He observed, that he had, for the last twenty years, - been in the praettce of ad dressing them on the subject for which they were now assembled, namely, to address the Head of the Governmeet to redress the grievances of the nation.' These endeavours had hitherto failed to obtain what they asked. He then proceeded to make a series of the most virulent, common-place, - faclious attacks upon the Govettnent, and concluded- by moving a string of Resolution., which Comprised - the whole Of the topicSof his speech. Mr. FAVELL seconded the Resolutions, observing,' it wa. the duty of the Livery to speak the language of trtith to the Prince Regent, and not that of flat tery. They Might be told, as.they were before, that " all's well ;" but he would only refer to our relations with America—to the .fate of the Conti- Ireland—and to Great Britain—and then let Ministers say whether or not " all's well." It refor - m was not adopted, the country must die. ' nn the first Resolution being put,' Mr. Dixor4, alter a pause, came forward. He observed, that - Ire was the only man who appeared to have courage sufficient to oppose the4lesolu tions. He neither approved of the arguments of the Gentleman who proposed the Resolutions, nor the Resolutions. He was ready to acknowledg6 that the country was placed in a situation of difficulty; but would the arguments of the Gentleman tend to ameliorate or remove that distress ? The sentiments of the Gentleman had been altered within the last twelve months, merely because the Prince Regent had not called to his Councils those men whom he approved. He 'did, not ask the Livery to hear him 23 a favour, he demanded it as aright, when lie was Speaking the sentimen's of his heart. For the last 110 years, the Gentleman had been in the pike - lice of providing a bill of tare of grievances; but not -withstanding all his endeavours to make it palatable., • the grievances had increased. In stating these grievances, he had not, in his opinion, entitled him self to the name of Patriot. With respect to free dom, there was not a place upon the face of the known earth where freedom of .debate upon mat ters of State was enjoyed more than here. He concluded by giving his decided dissent to the Re solutions. Mr. PERRING, though he agreed in many of the observaiions contained in the Resolutions, yet he could not tell where to find better'\Minisiers tlfan the present. Fie could not forget, when the "Tir , lents" were in power, l►e was dissati,fied with their condua ; , and though be bad expeaed much from them, he rejoiced when they quitted office. He could not consent to any Resolutions which went to invite a return of those men to power Who were mot a bit better than the present. The Resolutions were then generally adopted._ An Address was !next., moved to The Prince Re tent, embodying the slibstance of the Resolutions ; and it was ordered, that the Lord Mayor; Sheriff's, and the Ciiy Representatives, do watt .upon his Royal Highness to koow•when he .would - receive it. Mr. WAITHMAN then observed, as nothing could prevail on the City Aepreeontatives to offer their sentiments, he trusted their constituents would, on another occasion, recoll.ed their silence. He should :move, therefore, in order to obtain a few words from three of them, that they be instrueled to sup port the spirit of the . Address in the House of Com mons. Sir W. CURTIS came forward, and observed, that his constituents knew his opinions and sentiments well in'respe& to instru&ions. He was not afraid of any Minister .living; he went into the House a free man, and free he would come out of it. He - went,there to debate—to deliberate, and to decide to the best of his own judgment, unfettered. He could not, however, support the Reselutions. He was not under the influence of any one ; he was happy when he received their approbation, but if he could not please them he could not help it. Mrs Alderman 'COMBE expressed his determina tion to follow the instruction of his constituents. Sir C. PRICE declared his happiness when the Livery approved his conduta ; he trusted and hoped that in Parliament his conduct would, be such as to merit their approval. . He adverted to the appoint ment of Colonel M`,Mahon, and observed, that with respea to his condual on that occasion, he anted' from a conviclion that 'there were two fa6tions struggling with each other ? and therefore he did not vote on either side. As to the instruttions which they wished him to follow, he could not com ply with them, disapproving, as he did, of the Reso !utons. Sir J. SirAw did not approve of the sentiments," the Resolutions, or the Address moved by Mr. \Vaithman. He thought the Address a marked in sult to the Prince, and should put his deckled nega tive upon it. The Resolutions stated, that the country was governed by an imbecile Ministry and a corrupt Parliament; now he must contend that the reverse was the WI. Thanks were then voted to the Mover and Se conder, and to Alderman Combe. Thanks were also voted to the Lord Mayor, for his impartial condud.'' . The LORD MAYOR came, forward highly gratified; he had merely discharged his dtity, and should con tinue to do so impartially.. SMITHFIE4.D AIARKET, MARCH 17. This days market was but 'thinly - supplied with the dafelent kinds of cattle. Mutton is cheaper ; Veal is ; Beet and Pork sold. at last prices ; and the [lade for the most part was not over brisk. The sa:es Hiy-rnalket mere not lively ; Hay 41 and Str• last ptices; Clover obtained a EuTEREIL PAI?L LIMENI. HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, MARCH 26. Mr. Hot.TsTouN presented a petition from the Merchants House in Glasgow, against the monopoly of the east India Company.=—Ordered to lie' on the table. Mr. ALLCOCK, from the Treasury, presented an account of the appropriation of the Revenue of the last rear.—Ordered to lie on the table. .Mr. HASE from. the Bank, presented an account of the total value of the forged notes presented tor pay ment at the Bank of England for the last i i years. Ordered to lie on !he table. The Pilots Bill, the Honduras Trade Bill, the Military Commissioners all,' and the Canada Trade Bill, were read a third time and passed. An account was ordered to be laid before the House of the quantity of Corn, and another of the quantity of Coals. imported into London during the la,t year. NAVAL COURTS-MARTIAL Mr. LITTLETON gave no; ice, that on Friday, loth April, he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 22d of George 11. chap. 33. so far as it related to the punishment of tyranny, oppression; and cruelty, in the Navy. The objet which he had in view was to give to Naval Courts-Martial the power of punishing in cases of tranny, in -which the ,of a man might by endangered, as in the recent instance of Captain Lake. The adjourned debate on the papers respe6ling Capt. King, which was fixed for the 9th of April, was farther postponed to the toth of April. TRANSPORT SERVICE. Mr, RARING, in moving that some commercial Accounts recently presented to. the House hi.t print ed, took occasion to comment on what he termed the inaccurate statement of the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, with tespeci to the price of Iran sp.ort tonnage, which was very much less than that at which it was stated by the Right Honourable Gentleman. Mr. Rose contended, that his statement was sub stantially correct. On the third of March he had said; that the price of transport tonnage had increas ed. ftom I gs. a ton, the price at winch it was in 1807, to 235. Nuw, the fiat was, that at the time be spoke, it was e% en as high as 255. It 'was un doubtedly true, that since the 3d of March, the Transport Board had been enabled to coticlude a contraa of 21s. a ton, which was still 2s. a ton higher than the price of 1807. Mr. STANIFORTH said, that at Hull many valu able ships had been sold for half, and some for even a third, of their original cost. What the ship-owners complained of was, that they did not receive from Government all the assistance which might be af forded them._ For instance, the supplies for the army in the Peninsula ha''. for the last two years .been carried thither in neutral vessels. Neutrals had also been allowed to monopolize the carrying trade .to' Turkey, in dired contracti6tion to the Naval Laws. MC. ROSE observed, that the Board of Trade had nothing whatever to do with the Transport Service. They had, however, gone out of then way to write to the various public offices, entreating them to use British Vessels tor - the conveyance of supplies of every description, in preference to neutrals. He repeated his statement respeaing the price of transport ton :nage, as a proof that the shipping interest did not suffer so very deeply as was suppo;ed, and express ed his readiness to meet a 'discussion on the subject whenever it might be .brought forward. ' _ _ After some - explanation, from Mr. Baring, Mr. Rose, and Mr. Staniforth, and a few worth from Gen. Tarleton; the motion was agreed 'to. MAIL COACHES. On the motion ,of Loid .BINNING, the House re= solved itself into 3 Committee, to take. into consi deution the Report of the Selea•Committee on the exemption of Mail Coaches from toll. A Resolution was agreed to, that the exemp tion of Mail Coaches from toll ought to cease and determine. ' The House baying been res Urned, the Report was brought up, the, Resolution was 'agreed to, and a Bill was ordered to be brought in thereon. Lord BINNING immediately brought in the Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday, the t6thot April, and to be printed. Mr. WHARTON presented Accounts of the Ex pences attendant on the Army in the Peninsula. — Ordered to he on, the table. MAYNOOTH COLLEGE:. Sir J. NEWPORT postponed, until the 7th of April, his motion which stood for. this day, for the produ&ion of the dou►nents, slieWring that certain persons in the C liege at Maynooih had exetted thernselves to make converts to the Roman Catholic ADJOURNMENT VOR THE HOLIDAYS. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Exl CHE43l.lalt, it was ordelecl that the House, at its rising, should adjourn to Tue,day se'unight. GOLD COIN LL. The Order of the Day having be , n read for the second reading of the Gold Coin Bill, The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER moved that the Bill be now read a second time. Mr. MORRIS declared, that retaining as he did All his original objedions to the principle of the mea sure strengthened by its present shape, he could not Consent to give a silent vote on the subjed. By this Bill the House were about to give to paper cur rency the sitne effea in law as to the legal coin of • the realm; that was, to make p)per as much a legal tender as coin of the realm. He certainly was not present at the former discussion on the Bill, but as far as he understood it, he must consider that the Bill made Bank notes to all intents and pnrposes,a legal tender. It clid this without providing any ade quate. security for the prevention of forgery. It did it without providing any adequate security against an excessive issue on the part of the Bank, which must lead to a still greater de predation of their paper, and to all the fatal con-. sequences attendant on that depreciation. A forced paper currency was unfortunately ,no new experi ment. It had been tried in ,other Stwes. But never had it been adopted by any Government with out leading to national bankruptcy and to individual misery, which the wind shuddered to contemplate. He vtf6uicl tsti my that such must be the case in Eng• land, because it had been the 'case in_ other coun trie.4 but this,he was sure, that when such strong an ilugies existed, it was the solemn'. dirty . of the Mime to pause, and to examine whether there was such an essential :difference between the circum stance,: of England, and or the countries to which be had alluded, as to remove all rational ground of apprehension, that a similarcourse in England would be followed by similar effeds. With respell to the prevalence of forgeries, 'no precaation could afford adequate prote&ion to the public against that evil. It was true that the Bank had taken great pains on the stabled. What they had done might be suffi cient for thee- own protedion ; on the notes' where secret marks, of the nature of which the Bank alone were informed, and the absence of which therefore enabled them instantly to deted the forged notes; when presented for payment. But the very circum stance of secresy deprived the individual holder of the note of prote&ion against forgery; for how was he to ascertain the authenticity of the note ? He felt this subjed the more strongly, because he had hap pened to be iii the metropolis of another country, at a time when there were great forgeries on the pa per circulation of that country. At the corner of every street in Paris, there were offices for ascertain ing the genuineness of assignats. These offices were called bureau de verificatiln. But 'the number •of them defeated their °hied, for the secret by which the forged assignats were detected was entrusted to so many, that it was at length imparted to those who committed the forgeries. It was not the indi vidual loss that was so . great an evil, as the general panic which the prevalence of forgery occasioned, arid which attached distrust even to the genuine paper, creating a geoeral alarm as to-the Whole cur rency. That the forget ies on the Bank of England had been very extensive, would be proved by the returns which were about to be laid 'on the table of the House. How much More extensive would they be whep Batik notes were made a legal ten der ? This was cue strong objeation which he had to the before the H Another objection was, that it provided no defence against an ex cessive issue of paper on the part of the Bank ; an issue to which the Bank, when they found that their Bills were to have no perio t of payment., might be attempted to an inde.hnite extent. Nur could this evil of excessive issue be guarded'against by requiring from the Bank regular returns of the number of notes' issued' by them. The numerical amount of notes in circulation 'was' not a sufficient test of their excess. A very small excess 'might produce considerable derangement in the country. It was most unfitting that•the Bank should be left to exercise their own discretion 'on this point : it gave them too gleat a power". Without impeaching their integrity he must say, that if was an engine which they.,were not able to wield. The only sim ple and certain security against an excessive circula tion of paper was, the immediate convertibility of that paper into specie at the pleasure of the holder, He readily agreed With those who contended, that things ought not to be left as they then were ; but he could not agree with them, that the present Bill was the measure best calculated to meet the exi gencies of the case. On a question of such im 'portance, care ought. to have been taken to coile& the aggregate wisioan of Parliament, in every way in which it could be obtained. The House ought to go into a Committee on the subject, in which every topic conneded with it might be thoroughly sifted, , from the delinerations of which a more ade quate remedy might rise for this great public griev ance. It might, perhaps,. appear in that Commit tee, that as the value of coin had been already raised as f a r as tokens were concerned, m;ght be expe dient to raise gold' Coin ,in the same proportion, and then the Bank need no longer be prohibited from paying their notes in specie. A reference to the history of ancient times would chew the imp hey of forcing any depreciated currency. In the . reign of Edward the First, there were laws made to compel farmers to bring their .corn to the markets, and exchange it for the base curren t), of that period. Other devices were used to give effed to that - base currency. The history of those times, however, was most calamitous ; and it had been truly said by L6rd Liverpool in his Ttemise on the subjett, that 016 reformation of the religion was not a greater boon than the reforma tion of the edit). All experinents of a similar na ture had tailed, and it had ever been found indis pensable to return to a gored currency. Lord A. HAmttertm,iobserVing that the House were about to make Bank notes a legal tender, at his suggestion the Clerk read the 3d and 4th Reso lutions of the Committee of last -Session, by 'which it was stated, "That Bauk notes' were equivalent in public estimation to the legal coin - of the rerlin." In his opinion it- would be a Most Palpable contra didion to have these recotded resolutions on the Journals of the House, and then to pass a-Bill by which 'they were completely falsified. Sir J. NUWPdItT declared that this Bill was a fur thrr 'step on the road to ruin, and that the Hbese Were travelling very fast aloug that path which had led all nations who pursued it to destruation. Ad verting to the extension of the Bill to Ireland, he contended that it w ent to vitiate many express con tracts in that country; and be ,strongly objected ;tisk') to the step having been taken without any pre vious inquiry into the state of the Batik of Leland. Mr, D. GIDDY, in a tone of voice . which we re gret would allow us but very imperfectly to hear him, expressed his opinion that the proposition, that the present measure was fraught with great danger to the State, was as demonstrable as any proposition in abstract science. Still, however, as he,kre.::w that the measure Would be generally ac ceptable to the country, he would not oppose it, although he could by no means approve of it. Mr: H. TIAORNTUN said, it appeared to him that this Ball was not materially different from the for mer-, as it included Ireland, and therefore did away that practice of having.two prices there. He had thought the former Bill incomplete, as it did •not extend to . lrcland ; but at the s nee time he felt, that it it were extended to Ireland, the House would be involved in inextricable difficulty. L e ases might have been recently granted, by virtue of which, a tenant, instead of one hundred pounds in gold, paid for his rent one hundred pounds in paper- This Bill went to .do away the contrasts which had been made,ot this description, and to ,say that the tenant who paid one kindred ,and twenty pounds, should now pay his landlord but one hundred poends.---:- h At present, the standard of Bank paper was suppos ed to be known, by the difference made there in the prices' of articles, according as they were , paid for in gold or paper. Do away this standard, and though -the depreciation of Bank notes might be ascertained bythe foieign exchanges, yet as there were twiny Who had -not the means of knowing what'i hese were, the loss of that standard to which he had al= luded might occasion great confusion,', and rn!ke things worse than they were at present. Sensibly as be felt this, he was however willing to counte. :lance the BA so rar as to let it go to a Commit ,. tee, in theihope that it might be there amended in those parts which to him appeared obje;:tionable. Lord CASTLEREAGH had felt there was cou.aidera able difficulty in adopting this measure in England, and he certainly felt that there was an increased difficulty in extending it to Ireland. That difficulty however had been excesl,ively. exaggerated as far as . " related 'to Ireland, inasmuch as Gentlemen • had spoken as if two prices had obtained all over that country, and that therefore the House could not pa,s he present Bill without interrupting t he contra is which 'had been concheled there. This vieee of the sebject was not correct. It was true the prate rice of buying guineas was, more prevalent there than in England, as it had not been forbid, but the .House were deceived if they thought the contrails in Ireland, between man and man, were generally different from these made in England. It had been common there for a long dile to make them with a view to payment in Irish Bank Notes. or in: the general circulating medium of the country.--e The only anomaly of importance was/that payment' ,had generally been made in gold in three of tour counties in the north of Ireland. This pradice had' however of late years beer . ' cOnsiderahl) narrowed, till at length it was only common to give gold in payment of rent. There he admitted was a difficul ty, as tile interest of the landlord or of the tenant, must be in some degree sacrificed. to be remembered, ehat for a king time after the passing of the Bank Restriction Ad, the advantage to the landlord in being paid in gold was not more than two per cent. .Latterly, from the state of the foreign exchanges, and from the measures deter mined on in that House, the price of. gold lead risen so high; that at such a rate it could no longer be procured. As by .the passing of this Bill the landlord would lose his two per cent. (fairly ire could 'lever consider'himself entitled to more), it might be argued . up to an ad of injustice toetards him ; hut .when he (Lord Castlereagh) compared the e(- tea of its operation 00 the landlord with the greater benefit it would give the tenant, he would contend that they ought not, to be deterred by local prejudices from extending the Act to Ireland. Nut to do so Would be to sacrifice the general interest of that country to the usages of a few of its counties. Mr. W. SMITH had no hope of seeing the objec tionable parts of I his Bill corretled in the Committee, sail could not therefore let it go to a sec-md reading, without entering his protest against the measure altogether. After this all was passed, he contended that to make Bank paper a legal tender . would pro duee no pradical difference. It the present system 'were persevered in, he felt confident that it must end in national bankruptcy. The 7 next step taken wool,' be to make Bank paper a legal tender, and if this had no effed ; why then all persons must be forced to bring their commodities to market at fixEd.prices, or they must endeavour to return to that point Item which they had wandered for some ye its, and fo which they bad at present •rimeh greater facilities for returning, than they would have if things were suffered to go on till the crisis he had described had actually arrived. He contended the Bank issues ought not to be left to the Dire&ors of the Bankeas, however wise and honest those who were now in that situation migrit be; what security could be given that , those would be so who might fill their . places twenty, or thirty years hence. He hod been - told that the Bank capital had not been increased, and that On the same property .on which they had formerly issued their . notes to the amount of 13,000,0001. 'they now made issues amounting to from 22 to 24,000,0001. Who had the profit on this, and who ought to have it ? A profit, he conceived, there must be, and to whom but the public ought that profit to go ? Suppose the Bank should increase its issues to double their present amount—suppose, without an increase of capital, they should be raised to 40,000,0001.—0 n such an issue, at the common rate of interest, there must be a'erofit Of 2,000,0001. annually: Would it he reasonable , that the B ink should have this, standing in their present situation with Government and with the public ? He wished to know if Go vernment would guarantee the payment of • their notes ?. If they would not, they ought not to make • them a legal tender. With respect to Ireland, he wished to know if the Legislature were to guarantee the payment of the notes of the Irish Bank ? If they would not, it would be an acrof violence 'to the people to force (hero to take them. It they did guarantee the payment of them, they did it without baying any document • before them, which could furnish - any- thing like a Parliamentary ground for doing so. Mr. D. GIDDY explained - . Mr. W. POLE said, he should not go into the eer neral question, but confine himself to that part of it which related to Ireland. He had collected, net only in •this discussion, but in all those - that had taken place upon the subject last Session, that the measure then adopted had met. with the general ep-. probation of the House, and that it' was looked on with a favourable eye in the country, It it was . true that this measure had been resorted to for the protedion of the subject, and that it had effected that obje&, was it not' natural that he should wish to extend it to Ireland. The only reason why it had not been extended (what country last Session, had been justly stated by his Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh). It arose from the anomaly existing in that country, which rendered it necessary to at. low- time for investigation and for learning the actual state of the case. This -anomaly, in having two prices, one for gold and the other for paper, did not, however,' extend so far as was supposed. It was confined, as the Noble Lord had stated, to part of one province out of the four into which Ireland was divided. His Noble Friend had also fairly ex plained the nature.of the difference arising out of the 2 per cent. formerly paid for the purchase of guineas by the tenant ; but the .original cause might not, ethaps, he so generally known. It arose from the weavers having, for some 'reason or other, refused, the establishment of the Bank of Ire.