The Sun. — London, England, 1823-05-06 00:00:00

.45 4.4,1 op . -tuns 'et2-11144,,, \,... • , 1, ~: f I f ry , 4,? - • . , .. , .' V ~ .1 I . k I .- 7111.sntitta,V i k 7 / I r ..... - , k,a' • . t i: / —.. L.,./ :—. if ' 14 " • • e . )4otaltA ' - 4t ' i k • r ~. NUMBER 9578 TUESDAY, MAY 6, 1823. PRICE SEVENPENCE: and coacluded their meeting by a snug dinner. Reformert were accused of theoretical doctrines; but he believed his It;gh:. Hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Dundas) could not pretend to b any thing but the representative in theory of his Constituen.s. It must not be answered him that Scotland possessed many popular elections already ; for there was not one- popular elec tion in that country. He should this Session, if possible, bring in a Bill founded on this petition. Mr. DUNDAS observed, that in all , previous cases the House had proceeded to disfranchise places only upon detect ed delinquency; but the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who presented this petition, called upon them to take that harsh step in a case where no corruption was charged, and where `there was not even a whisper of abuse. It was no small re quest made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, since the privilege enjoyed by the city of Edinburgh in the matter of election, was secured to them by chartered rights, ratified by the Act of Union. Mr:' KENNEDY impressed upon the House the necessity of paying particular attention to the petition presented by his Hon. and Learned Friend. Ile did not wish to introduce the question of Burgh Reform, of which the House had heard so much. The petitioners did not dictate to the House the remedy they were to give them, they only stated the grievances ; and he should be sorry to see the time come, when the respectable and numerous householders of Edinburgh should unite in one sentiment, that whatever their real condition, it was of no use ,to lay their grievances before that House. long continue the same as heretofore.—The Petition was ordered to be printed. INQUIRY INTO THE CONDUCT OF THE SHERIFF OF DUBLIN. Colonel BARRY, before the Order of-the Day was moved for going into the Committee on the conduct of the Sheriff of Dublin, withal to submit a motion to the House. Sir J. NEWPORT thought the conduct of the Hon. Gen.. tlehmn rather unfair. It had been agreed that the inquiry should be resumed at six o'clock; it was then nearly seven, and he should therefore beg to move the Order of the Day. 'Colonel BARRY said the Hight Hon. Baronet was perfectly in order, but as the paper for which he (Col. Barry) had wished to move related to the inquiry, he could not thank him for his courtesy. It would be necessary to move for it in the course of the evening, and he thought the present would have been the most convenient time for the motion. Since the Right Hon. Baronet would not allow it to be made, he must leave him in possession of the House. Whet he wanted to call for was, a letter received by a Clerk of the House from an indivi dual who bad been summoned to attend as a witness, and who had stated his utter inability to come ova; till assistance should be atTorded to him for that purpose. On this subject he gave no opinion then, but it would be for the House to consider what ought to be done in a case where an individual is kept away, from no disinclination to attend, but from want of means to come. There was certainly one way of compelling attend ance; by ordering the party into the custody of the Serjeant at Arms. But this would occasion great inconvenience. What he wished was, that the House should take till to-morrow to consider what it would be best to do in this case. he proved, but the sensation itself could not be otherwise esta blished. He, however, did not think the inquiry ought to be confined within very narrow limits. The examination was resumed. Witness stated various facti respecting the formation of the Grand Jury, the number of the panel on the late occasion, &c. Sir Francis Mills, who had been on the grand jury, was chosen foreman of the petty, twenty-nine names having been passed, which had stood betore his. Witness knows Mr. Moore, but has no personal friendship or acquaintance with him. Shook bands with Mr. Moore after leaving the House on Friday . night. When he went into the lobby had some conversation with .the persons there, who asked him what they bad kept him so long. for.—(A laugh.)—All he knows of Mr. Moore arises from meeting him in the courts and upon grand juries. Q. Do you not know a Gentleman if you shake hands with him ?—A. I might only know him as I have described, andyet if I met him here I might shake hands with him. Q. You have stated that you have only a personal know ledge of Mr. Moore from meeting him on business in Dublin, yet it would be quite natural, when you saw him here, to take him by the band and wish him joy of being in England ?—(A laugh.)—The witness replied in the affirmative. He was then ordered to withdraw. Mr. WILLIAMS moved that Mr. O'Reilly be called to the Bar. Mr. Mansfield, in order that. he might pack a jury for a client of 3 , our's ? Mr. It. MARTIN rose to order, and the witness was ordered to withdraw. The Hon. Member expressed his opinion that the House was not warranted inputting a question, the answer to whiclunight criminate the witness. - A conversation ensued, and it was decided that the House could not put such a question—that if the witness should refuse to answer it, though criminating himself by the answer, it would be a consideration for the House whether they should compel on!, - they having the power to do so. The question was repeated to the witness, and he replied that some years ago, when he was a . young man, it occurred to hint to have a Client in only criminal case that ever tic was connected with, who desired hint to endeavour to get' some friends of his upon the Jury, and he would, remunerate the Sheriff. He wished to hide nothing that was past, and he acknowledged that he made this application to Mr. Mansfield. As far as he could recollect Mr. Mansfield's answer, it was, that it was out of his power, the case being in the hands of the Crown Officers ; that it was out of his power, even if he had wished to do it. He did not get the bribe, because he did not do what was wanted. The Crown Solicitor then was Mr. Kern-. mis; believes Mr. Townsend was one of' the Counsel for the -prosecution i • does not recollect whether the Attorney and Soli citor-General were employed in the case;, his client was trans ported. Understood the answer of Mr. Mansfield to be, that he bad not the power if he had the inclination. A 111 E MBE said, he wished to know if; when Sheriff Thorpe came to the Office and said the bills would be UgnOred, he added that he had managed cleverly ?—A. Ile said he had managed well, or something to that effect. The witness was ordered to withdraw, and . : OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, April 24, 1823. HE PRINCIPAL OFFICERS of His MA JESTI"S ORDNANCE do hereby give Notice, 11mt ProPosals will be received at their Office, in Pall Nall, lii or before Friday, the 9th day of s May next. from such Persons as may be willing to undertake the performance of the GLAZIER'S WORK required for Service of this Depart - now at the Tower and Pall Mall, am! at Woolwich and. Pusfiect, (on separate Contracts), for a period of Three Years, terminable at ant time after the expiration of the First Year, upon Three Months .notice being . given by either Party. For the Terms and Conditions of the Contract, apply at the Secretary's Office, in Pall Mall, between the Hours of Ten and Four o'Clock, where such Persons as intend to make Tenders for the Contract will receive a Schedule. of the roil: to be performed. Thr ,P , lnnal: must be delivered, scaled up, and endorsed "Proposals for Glazier's Work at the Tower and Pall Mane ' or for Glazier's Work at Woolwich and Purfiect ;" but reo Proposal can be admitted after the 9th day of May nes., at Twelve o'Cloch at Noon, neither will any Tender• be noticed, ?infest the Party making it, or an Agent in his behalf, shall attend. The Order of the Day for going into a Committee to inquire into the conduct of the Sheriffof Dublin was then read, and the House resolved itself into the Committee. Colonel BARRY rose to ask whether it was precisely fair to put words into the witness's mouth, when he had previously been examined upon a particular point to which they related ? Mr. BROUGII.III contended that it was competent for any Member to put leading questions. The witness was recalled and his examination proceeded.— When he saw Mr. Blake, did not say to him *hat words passed in the office, because he could not recollect them precisely. 7-- Has no doubt that those words were used upon the occasion. Never had a word of conversation with Mr. Shcra Thorpe in his life. fly Order of the Board, MIL CREW, Secretary. Sir ROBERT HERON being in the Chair, saki he would take the liberty of stating to the Committee, that in his judg. meat it would promote the regularity of the Inquiry if any Hon. Gentleman, wishing to question a witness, would put his question in the first instance to the Chairman, and then, having received his answer, to remain on his legs till he had asked all the questions he meant to ask that witness. This, he thought, would prevent all that unintentional interruption which had occurred on a former occasion. AMARRIED and BENEFICED CLERGY MAN, formerly Tater to a Nobleman of bigh ranks and subsequently receiving a FEW PUPILS into his ""se' a moderate distance from London, has now a VACANCY. Letteis to he addressed to the Rev. A. 8., Mr. Hayes's, Bookseller, 8, Ilenrietta.street, Covent Garden, London. Mr. BANKES was of opinion that the adoption of such a regulation would be contrary to the usage of Parliament. Sir R. HERON said, he should 'be glad to hear the Hon. Gentleman state in what r espect it would be contrary to the usage of Parliament. Mr. BANKES said, it was perfectly contrary to Parliamen:. tarp usage for an Hon. Member to remain on hiS legs till he had gone through all the questionshemeant to put to a witness. Itixry was then called in, and examined by Colonel Bann-t-: On examination by Mr. Bitt4ltT, Does not remember the exact words used by Mr. - Mansfield. Some other questions were put to the witne,s ; but neither they nor the answers were audible, and be then withdrew. On the motion of Mr. J. WILLIAMS, Peter Tomlinson was called to the Bar and examine& ofr titer is.-- may and n.— last BILIOUS AND LIVER COMPLAINTS.' A S a mild and effectual Remedy for all those Disorders which originate in a vitiated action of the Clear lliliary ri and Organ, n amelY Indigestion, Loss of Appe. tite, Headache, Heartburn, Flatuleneies, Spasms, Costive ness, Affections of the Liver, Sm. &c. DiXON'S AN. TIBILI OUS I'll LS general ap have m e t w i t h more • pruval than any other M e di c i ne whatsoever., - They unite every recommenda tion of mild operation with successful effect; and require no re reduudistit and vi straint or confi nement whatever during their use. In tro pical c li mates, where the consequences of tiated Bile a prevalent and alarming, they re so are an invalu able and efficient protection. They are likewise peculiarly calculated t o correct disorders arising from excesses of the Table —to restor e the Tone of the Stomach—and to remove " 1 "I Complaints occasioned by Irregularity of the Bowels. Sold in Boxes, at 'it. 9d .v f;'.. 1 is,, and ins., by Butlers , Chemists, N o. 4, Cheapsiffe, ;a nd' 020, Regent-street, (near t he Argyle Rooms), London ; Waterloo-place, Edinburgh ; Waterloo-strect, Dublin ; an d lay the principal Sletlicine,- venders throe., Dublin; the.Unitcd Kitigdont. Is a bootmaker at Blackrock ; was in Dublin during the time of the trials of the rioters ;.knows Mr. Daniel Smith ; conversed with him two or three days before the trial ; was standing out side his own shop when Mr. Smith gave him an order, A per son came by, whom Mr.' Smith addressed thus :—" GoOd. morning, Mr. Sheriff." He asked the Sheriff' about the ap proaching trials, and whether he had made out a list of the' Jury. lie said he had not; but he was just then going to the office about it. lie said " they" (meaning the Traversers) " shall have as good a petty as they have had a firand Jury.' Witness should know the Sheriff again, thotigh he never saw him before, and had never seen him since. Mr. J. WILLI.AAIS desired him to look about him. said—" I do not see bins here ; but I have no doubt I should know him again, for 1 eyed him particularly."-.-(A laugh.) On examination by Mr. Gourasurvs—lias since been to see the other Sheriff; and understands bins to 'be Air. Sheriff Cooper. IS certain he is not the gentleman who was addressed by Mr. Smith. By Mr. Bnowart.ow- Heard Of two trials: The transac tion in question was just before the second. A Mr. Peter —' (we did not hear the surname), was present. Mentioned the, circumstance on the same day to several persons, By Sir EDWARD Eli ATCUBULL.—Looked attentively aster . wards at the other sheriff, and. is certain he was not the one ; spoken to by Air. Smith ; went to Dublin in consequence of this ; is now at 45, Long-acre ; went to the Solicitor-General of Ireland, and afterwards to Mr. Bacon ; the litter question.. ed witness on the subject, and he answered as he had done now. The witness withdrew. _ Jobe AlaeConnell called in and examined. Resides in Dub-. Q. Mr. Rikey have you brought with you the returns which you were directed to prepare for this Housel—A. I have. The returns were then given in, and the title read, which set forth, that the papers contained a list of the several pan nels returned by the Sheriff for the City of Dublin at the seve ral Sessions of Oyer and Terminer front February, 1819, to February, 1, both inclusive, chewing the numbers of each, distinguishing such individuals as were Members of Common Council; the numbers of pannels called over, and fines, and those Jurors who had served on former occasions, &c. The examination was then resumed, but, as on' the former night, so much of it was inaudible in the gallery, that it is imPossible to give a detailed report of the whole. Witness stated that the bills of int:fro:tient which. had been framed on the late occasion, had been altered after they had been pre pared. [Here the examination proceeded in a low tone so fast, that the CHAIRMAN requested that more :time might be al lowed for the short-hand writer of the House to take his notes.] The examination was then resumed, by Colonel BARRY. Q. Who altered the Bills of Indictment ?•-•-it.. The Crown Solicitor. {sod Is od $s Od .i od )s 04 66 ad 4 Od n 011 t, at rIeYS jv liOtO a 23, PARLIANIENT. HOUSE O' LORDS, MAY 5* het I ad- Mr. TRAINTDEL L , from the O ffi ce of the Chief Secretary for presented ' an Account of the SIIMS issued from that urlice, to defray the ex pence of Public Works. On the motion of Earl (IRBY, the name of Lord Rosslyn Was added to the Committee on Appeals. FOREIGN POLICY. Earl GREY gave notice, that be should on 'Wednesday move for certain additional information with reference to the late Ne geciations, and to the War now carrying on between France and Spain. lArd INSOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT. CLIFDEN presented a Petition from the Town of against the Insolvent Debtors' Act. The Noble Lord expressed an opinion, that if there were no arrests for simple contract debts, the evil of which the petitioners complained Night he greatly diminished. He saw well dressed dandies paradin g the streets, to whom, lie was satisfied, no credit would gven if they were not liable to arrest fur the debts the?) , incurred W. !Ara CAW DOR presented several petitions from Pembroke- Thl,e, complaining of Agricultural Distress. he Eall of SHArI'ESBURY presented a petition from the Mwri of Plymouth, praying for the Abolition of Slavery in the eat India Colonies. • rill e Marquis of LANSDOWN presented a petition from the _Chamber of Commerce, in the City of Glasgow, against iii!tinilfrAlllllealligitlyits and Measures which, in consequence of an she he .(the petition having been wiitten on two sheets, t signatures annexed to only one) he subsequently The D CHANCELLOR, in detecting the informality, v ed that the Adjourned to to- petition wanted both weight and measure.— morrow. Q. have you ever known any alteration to be made in . Bills prepared for the Grand Jury on other occasions I have. O. With or without leave of the Court ?—A. With leave. Q. Ever without it ?—A. Sometimes. .44,- Were the alterations in the,_billFrin question wade at the ,• Flour —s od ;sod 35 04 «jam- ....:.....Y...,,..~ •--.__ Q. At whose?—At mine. Q. You said, they were male by the Solicitor to the Crown ? —A. I did ; I discovered the errct in the 13111 s, and pointed it out to him. Bar -114 Oat• 40 $ 19 °4. ; ph. g Oti; saeirg 47 33 k ith• rtl per 010 1 0 , ill rt 3O A 371 3 31! 34' roufill lea n ,a fo.r ,cnt " It ti u4 n One C• 4 1 0 1 rob , 'W 6'5 71 IP 41" John St ' t fit 01/1/` , o f tie aft ll2 ' ►rt, r' v iroth IrhO Tams* vos 2 of, 410_1f 101 10 ' )r C SC WI IiO'U.SE OF COMMONS. weSre lard Papers' from Public Offices were presented, which Air,on the table, and ordered to be printed. (Ir tIz i e ( I T IVWEN presented a Petition from the Smithfield tati , rs‘ Ah3ociation, praying fora prohibition on the impor on of Pore' rtt Tall Laid on the table. Petition was A Pet' • °w•— "utY.--tatiti on the table. presented from Frome against the Coal Pta AVERY. IYr. lIALDIAIANDS p L resented a petition from Ipswich, on tlle table . the abolition or Sl aver y i n th e West Indies.—Laid 411 rr i , " ,,?„ l "As ACLAND presented several petitions of a sever arts es "—Laid t fr bl n al P hin the County of Devon. Alr W e. Edmtinds,Saie lTl i for Ptel d, 6l‘ed 0 11 the table.ar petitions from Bury St. and anot her p . lace in Norfolk.—Laid Sir JOH , t ,„,„ CATHOLICS. Ca tholic I I I N : Is `r - "v PORT presented a Petition from the Ca alins.isco-eno4ll:lei:jarrio)birtanmi tiZfgthe Union of Tuam, Ireland, complain e-ng excluded from participating in the Vestries assessment on -the Parish. The Right the! lyironet stated that a Gentleman owning 1,200 acres in Itareuebsnietrat:hot:hV' and who lead been Churchwarden, was excluded OULBURN said that when the petition was on the he should have an op portunity of examining into the al tie i r is o f it, and he had no doubt he should be able to sa- Zotnie Ilouse as to the particulars of the case.. _ eailin ~A. lIAIIIILTON thought the petition involved a case thesir!).rplirerrtzioosEt i marked s a u tt p e po nt rt io e n o o t f he Parliament. . il read and ordered tribe laid on the tablP:.ution, which was habir• V. FITZGERALD presented a _petition from the In peliitants of the County of Clare, Ireland, praying for the re af‘the Leathtr Tax.—Laid on the table. ' laa l :" 'OOD gave notice, that lie should on the 22d instant Ment. a seri es of Resolutions relative to the law of Settle at L l .' l le Iron. Member also presented a petition from Staines , I ,4st the Coal Tax. —Laid on the table. ..nr. 1 T , f or ~ ILSIE presented a . petition from Leominster, h praying ii 'e abolition of Slavery in the West Indies, and t e equa zatton of the duties on East and West India Sugar. Ai .EDINBURGH REPRESENTATION. of L a r '. ABERCROM BY presented a Petition from the City ti t , l lbtlrgli, signed by 7;000 Householders, calling the attrn 4414:the House to the peculiar state of their represen s ta e t t io o _ illenar‘oltanient. Their representative was chosen _ by a o .. a. l ti on, torme nt• ,ttni . ng one three-thousandth part of the wi* p Pui r "). %Ito in fact elected each other in tirt e,posigesseti hundred and perpetuity. These pe - 2,500/. out of 400,00 W, being one_. people of li t t il T Part of the property of the Electors. T) tk e l , tirgh knew no more and had no more influenc u e aver the q tit of their representative than they had.over the election t th , I % l ton. Member that orfe-Castle (Mr. Bankes). Athe - tY knew of i t wa s , 19 people seic-electedonet tog ether, Mr. CALCRAFT said, the House had only been lately in formed of the state of the representation of the City of Edin burgh ; that the Gentleman representing it was in fact the re presentative of a Burgh Town. The supposed number of his constituents was reduced to three hundred and thirty, which number was reduced to 19, that being the number of self elected electors by which the Right lion. Gentleman was re turned. He noticed the very easy manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman had passed and repassed, and got himself elected or re-elected, while in the enjoyment of a lucrative sine cure of 3,0001. per annum. He, however, did not know but he was doing injury to the cause of Reform, by thus dwelling on the happy course which he had pursued with this self-electing Electors. To-night the Right Hon. Gentleman had denied that this Petition spoke the sense of the City from which he came.— A Petition, subscribed but by six or seven thousand persons, bad been thus described by a Right Honourable Gentleman, who was the Representative of nineteen. He (Mr. Calcraft) must, however, be excused if lie took their word in prefe rence to that of the Right Honourable Gentleman ; and he supposed that as they stated some of the most respectable individuals in .the place favoured this Petition, though the Right Hon. Gentleman knew nothing of them. He hoped the lion. Gentleman would bring in the Bill which he intended proposing to the House • and he (Mr. Calcraft) could not but think that even the Right lion. Gentleman opposite, who, lie believed, had been prevented from going to govern India, that he might stay here to oppose Parliamentary Reform, could in this case hardly refrain from siding with the friends of the measure. Lord BINNING did not rise to retort any sarcasms uttered on the subject of Borough representation by the lion. Member for the Borough of Wareham.—(A laugh.)—He however could not help expressing surprise, that in a place where the popu. Wien was so great, anti where so much pains had been taken to obtain the signatures of all manner of men, all manlier of women and all manner of children, that not more than from 6 to 7000 names had been obtained. He was no friend to any of the Parliamentary Reforms which had been proposed, and he objected to that picemeal Parliamentary Reform which was now called for by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. Ile hoped the House would nut sanction the principle of taking up the constitution of every particular borough, and dealing with it, because it was thought defective, as if some abuse was in proof against it. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, as the Noble Lord had a funda mental objection to all sorts of Reform, he (imitating the con duct of the Noble Lord towards his Honourable Friend) would hold no argument with him on that subject. He, how ever, protested against the doctrine,.,.,htlAia.tnaretideote:tc!otsrriunptilitoenCoband stitution were to he retti‘atba, i been proved. General FERGUSSON said, this petition was signed by 6,000 persons, and no person had been allowed to sign it who did not hold a house, of the rent of five pounds, or upwards. There were but 21,000 houses so rated in Edinburgh, and many of these were held by women. Mr. HUME said there were but 21,000 families in Edin burgh. The number of houses that paid hi. and upwards as rent, was but 10,168. In respectability and in number, there fore, this petition was signed by three-fourths, if not y four fifths, of the whole population contprisal within the limits of the city of Edinburgh. Mr. DRUMMOND, admitting this petition to be signed by 7,000 persons, would ask any man who knew how thefie names had been collected, who knew that it was at one time impos sible to walk a hundred yards without meeting a number of persons in the street who were trying to induce intlityaials to sign the petition, if it ought to be considered, to express the sense of the inhabitants of Edinburgh. Ile was of opinion that such was not the fact. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. ABERCROMBY, in moving that the petition should be printed, took occasion to state, that at every place where this petition had laid for signature, sonic of the individuals with whom it had originated had remained with it to sec that it was signed by none but those who held houses at five pound* per annum, and upwards. Where it was thought to have been signed by improper persons, those names had been cut out, even at the risk of sacrificing some of those who had a right to remain. Out of ten thousand one hundred and sixty-eight persons, who held houses at the rate described, six thousand eight hundred and forty-seven had signed this petition. Such being the fact, there was nothing to justify the remarks which had been made on the numbers by which it was signed. If this petition did not express the sense of the place front which it came, why did not those who possessed all the patronage of Edinburgh come forward with another petition, to prove that he was wrong. After a few words from Mr. KENNEDY and Lord Anon- BALD HAMILTON, Mr. GOULBURN begged to ask the Noble Lord oppo site if he would have any objection to postpone the motion of which he had given notice, fora Reform in the Representation of Scotland. It was in discharge of his public duty that he ask ed this question, and he was of opinion that it would be t'or the convenience of the House, and for the public good, that it should be deferred. Lord A. HAMILTON wished to remind the House, that in consequence of his postponing his motion last year, in com pliance with the wishesof Ministers, he had been disabled from bringing it on in the course of the whole Session. When the Right Hon. Gentleman stated, that it was only in the discharge of his public duty that he called upon him to put it ofT, lie begged to state, that it was only in the discharge of his public duty that be (Lord A. Hamilton) persisted in bringing it on. He had no wish to throw unnecessary obstructions in the way of the business of the House. Let all the other motions, of which notice had been given, be postponed, so that theyshould stand in their present relative situations to each other, and he should not object to it ; but why his alone should be picked out to be postponed, was that which he did not exactly anderstapd. The petition was ordered to be printed. COAL DUTIES. Mr. B. COOPER presented a petition from certain Railway and Canal Companies, praying for a total repeal of the Duties on Coals. Mr. Alderman BRIDGES supported the petition.—Ordered to be printed. TITHES' COMPOSITION BILL. Mr. V. FITZGERALD said, as the Tithes' Composition Bill could not then receive proper consideration from the House, he thought it would be desirable that it should be post poned. He had a particular reason for desiring this, as at present another subject demanded the attention of those most interested in it, he meant the representatives of the people of Ireland. Mr. GOULBURN had no objection to postpone the debate, but he felt that unless some progress were made in the Bill, it was not probable that they could get it through the House in time to obtain for it the concurrence of the other douse of Parliament. He therefore should feel it incumbent upon hin , to begin at least to forward the bill through the Comnuttee. SLAVERY IN THE WEST INDIES. Mr. LEYCESTER presented a petition from the Inheti tants of the Borough of Shaftsbury, preying for the discon tinuance of slavery in the West Indies. Such a measure the Hon. Gentleman thought notices important to the Whites than to the blacks t as with the existence of a free State like that of St. Domingoin the neighbourhoed of our West India Islands, It was impossbly to suppose that the system of slavery could Q. What was the error which you discovered ?---A. The error was this. The occurrences of the 14th December, in the in. diettnent, were stated to have occurred in the foerth year of the King's reign. 1 suggested that the fourth should be altered to the third. . 1 Q. Did you do this without leave ache Court ?—A. I did not do it. Q. Who did it P—A. I pointed it out to the Solicitor, who took it into his chamber, anddid it there. Q. Why did he take it into his chamber?--A. I suppose that he might not be seen. Q. Nt'hy did he wish not to be seen P—A. I do not know. Q. There was nothing to be ashamed of No. Q. Why, then, did he wish not' to be yeen ?--[The answer was inaudible-1 Q. It the bill had been found by the Grand JUry in the state in which it was originally, do you believe the traversers could have been brought up ?—A. I think not. Q. Was any other alteration made at that tine P--A., No thing more. Q. Then the alteration made was merely a matter of form ? —A. Exactly so. Q. There was no endorsement on the bills at that time ?—A. Oh, no. By Mr. Scalmt TT—Q. Was this before the Grand Jury found the bills?—A. It was. The examination of the witness was continued by Sir JOHN STiYART. The following question, atter several others had been put and answered in so low a tone that they could not be heard in the gallery, was asked Q. - Do you recollect that at the time these men were com mitted, a very awful sensation was created in Dublin ? GOUIABUR.N reminded the Committee, that it watt their duty to inquire into the conduct of the High Sheriff of Dublin on the late occasion. lie would be the last man to op. pose any evidence being given that could tend to throw light on that Subject ; but he did not see that the question which litul been put was other than irrelevant. He could not see how it Sir. J. STUART briefly stated his reasons for putting the possibly apply to the conduct of the Sheriff. q co u t e il s t t l ion. The CHAIRMAN said, it was utterly impossible even for a greater experience than himself at all times thedraw of to M eriale strict mhue line with respect to the revelancy or irreve. fancy of the questions. It was impossible to determine what connection they might have with the subject under inquiry. Where a serious doubt arose, he should endeavour to avail him. self of the sense of the Committee. Mr. W. WILLIAMS did not see that the question was irre levant. Colonel BARRY said, he would confine himself as,much as possible to questions that would bear on the conduct of the Sheriff; but he berg -a to remark that one Ilonourable Gentleman had expressed an intention of conducting the Corn. mittee to an inquiry into the whole adtninistration of justice in Ireland. Mr. GOULBURN said he must object to such a course being taken. Mr. GRATTAN was understood to object also to that course, as if it were pursued there would be no end to the labours of the Committee. Mr. SCA R.LETT thought the question which had been put, did relate to the conduct of the Sheriff. Mr. C. W. WYNN read the order of the House, which directed a " strict inquiry into the conduct of the Sheriff of Dublin." Ile was sorry to interrupt any Hon. Gentleman, as it was impossible to tell with what view his questions were put ; but it .would be for general convenience, that they should con. fine themselves as much as they could, to that which directly related to the conduct of the Sheriff, the inquiry into that hav ing been confided to them by the House, and they not being authorised to enter into any other, without first calling for further powers. M r . W. WILLIAMS was of opinion that to that object they ought to confine themselves. The CHAIRMAN said, undoubtedly the Inquiry would he much shortened by confining themselves to the conduct of the Sheriff. Sir J. MACKINTOSH' egrerd that they might to confine themselves to what related to the Sheriff; but many circum. stances, bearing upon it but indirectly, might still be very ma terial. Ile was of opinion that the question which had been put was irrelevant. The witness had been asked adiether there was not a very awful sensation produced in Dublin. This was asking what effect was producul on witness's mind. Circum stances, which had produced very particular sensation, might Terence O'Reilly was then called, and after a short pause, Sir R. HERON said —" Mr. Williams, Terence O'Reilly is not to be found..—(A laugh.) After the name of another witness had been called, Mr. O'Reilly made his appearance, and stated that he was in the profession of the Law, and had been an Attorney sixteen years, ever since the year 1809 :—(a laugh)—bad resided in the City of Dublin ever since. Was residing there when the Commis sion Grand Jury sat in January, ND. Remembers perfectly when the Bills were sent up to the Grand Jury. Wain Court 1 during the first and second day of the inquiry, and frequently saw Alr. Sheriff Thorpe there. Was present when he an nounced that the Bills were ignored, He announced it in the office of the Cie* of the Peace, situated in the same house, and adjoining to the Court. Witness was in that office at the time ; there were a variety of persons always going in and re tiring, it being an office of public intercourse. At that parti cular instant does not recollect that , there were many persons present. The conversation of Mr. Sheriff Thorpe was chiefly directed to a Gentleman named 'Ward, who was in the office. Knows nothing as to a relationship, but is ante that there is a friendship' subsisting between him and Mr. Sheriff Thorpe; and in consequence of that, as witness supposes, the conversation was directed to him. Sheriff Thorpe was in the office about three quartets of an hour before the time when it was announced in Court .that the Bills were ig. nored. He came into the office and said—" There will be no Bills found; haven't I managed well ? The busitiess being done, you need have no further fear." He was dressed in his appointments as Sheriff, with his cocked hat and sword, and took them off in the office. Mr. Macnamara, an Attorney, was present at the time. It was impossible to state what other per sons were there, because it was a public office, and people were continually coming in and retiring. Had mentioned four persons as being present; Mr. Ward, Mr. Macnaniara. Mr. Sheriff Thorpe, and himself. What he had stated waa said in a loud tone of voice by the Sheriff. There might or might not have been other persons present at the conversation ; there must have been persons passing in and out. Knows Mr. Ward, and is known by him ; does not recollect whether they bud any conversation upon the subject after Wards. Mr. Ward did not go out of the of fice with Sheriff Thorpe. Never said he had spoken to Mr. Ward about it. First mentioned this circumstance when the subject began to be discussed. Does not recollect any particular time at which he mentioned it, until he was applied to, to give evi dence upon another fact which he was not competent to do ; then told Mr. Costello what he had heard. Mentioned this fact to young Mr. Plunket, the Attorney-General's son, to the best of his rececollection, on Monday or Tuesday last. Does not say he was silent upon the subject till then, but does not re• collect any particular occasion or person, when, or to whim lie mentioned it. Believes be did mention it to many, hut can not distinguish one. After hearing Sheriff Thorpe make this building as thekluLfeWlisOffice , which is part of, the same the Court, until hearing the news that the Graiid . :liTry into re turned no bills. Thinks the time that elapsed was from three quarters of an hour to an hour. Came here in consequence of the order of the House, but left Dublin before the order reach ed, because young Mr. Plunkett had told him that he would be wanted, and compelled to go. Was desirous not to leave home, in consquence of pressing business ; but being obliged, he came before the order was served, in order to get back us soon as possible. Since arriving in town has been at WI hotel, but does not remember the name of it; does not know exactly where it is. Has not slept there, but at No. 5, Northumber. land-street. lids had conversation Upon the evidence he in. tended to give here ; spoke to a gentleman in the law upon the subject toalay ; does not recollect his name. Mr. BnowieLow. - -Q. Should you know his name if I men tioned it ? A. Yes. Q. Should you know him if you saw him P—A. I should. Q. hook there—(Cries of " No, no !")—ls the name Blake P—A. It is. Q. Who told you to go to 31r. Blake ?—I called on Mr. Plunkett this morning; and he desired me to go to Mr. Blake. Q. Did Mr. Blake ask you questions upon the evidence you were to give P—A. No • he told me that the shortest way would be to wnte down the evidence I could give. —(Hear !) Examined by Mr. llitonoitAai.—Q. Have you not lived in Cotton-garden since you came to London?—( A laugh pre vented the answer from being heard.) Q. Do you know Mr. Plunkett 2—A. I never spoke to him before. Q. You know some Members of this house ?—A. I have the honour of knowing many Members. • Q. Who do you know beit ?—A. I know Mr. Ellis best. Q. Aye • 'that is Mast& Ellis, the 31emlier for Dublin ? A. Yes.--(A. laugh.) In continuation, the witness said he came here to giVe evi dence with reluctance; told Mr. CoSodlo so, and every body who spoke to him about it; his voluntary coming here was in consequence of knowing that the order of the House would compel him. Has said he was an unwilling witness, and did not tell Mr. Plunkett what he knew ; Mr." Plunkett bad heard of it, and asked him if he could give such evidence; witness told him he was certain of the truth of what he had said, but could not attend to give evidence, because his buSiness would not allow him. Alr. Plunkett said peremptorily . that be must attend. Mr. Sheriff Thorpe came into the other in an exulting manner ; thinks the bills were not then ignored, because the Jury ,rnt into Court three quarters of an hour after. This witness' was then ordered to withdraw, and Mr. Mama mare called and examined. Witness is an attorney. Knows Sheriff Thorpe by person. When the Grand Jury . were sitting upon the bills, frequently saw him in Court at various times in the course of the day ; saw him in the Clerk of the Peace's Office ; thinks it was between two and three o'clock. Dnes not remember who was in the room; knows 31r. O'Reilly ; several persons were in and out of the office all day : recollects Sheriff Thorpe coming in while Cllr. O'Reilly was there. lie said that the bills 'were ignored ; thatthere were no bills, or some. thing to that effect. He addressed his remark to some fried of his., whom witness does not know, hilt believes it was Mr Ward. The Gentleman asked if die bills were come down from the Grand Jury. The Sheriff said, " No ; but you may make yourself easy as to the result." The Sheriff seemed well uleased at it; thinks he went away almost immediately.— ' oes not remember how the Sheriff was dressed ; when he was goir, Witneits went into another Office, and there was a list of the Grand Jury ; some persons were looking at the list at the time, and calculating how many Orangemen were upon it. There were some names which he knew; some said there were fifteen, and others seventeen. A conversation took place a to those who were likely to throw out the Bills, in coniequenc* of what had passed in the outer Of fice. Ilas mentioned this to a number of friends, and re mem'pers mentioning it to one in the Four Courts. . Can not name any person who was in the office it . the time, because many were walking in and out. Thinks be was in the Court at the time when the grand jury returned their finding; believes it to have been an hour or better after the Sheriff came into the office. Went with Mr. O'Reilly to Mr. Blake ; they were both together with Mr. Blake at the same time. Mr.slllake asked him the .particulars of the evidence he could give, and he told him the same lie has told here; Mr. Blake did not ask questions ; rather thinks he left them to tell their own stories does not think he asked Mr. O'Reilly gave . Liens ; believes'he told him to write down the evidence he could give. Mr. ItnowN•Low put the following questions to the wit ness i—g. Do you over recollect hating a conversation with aits w esaaaraeka.sa.,. va mea ...m rt sh e * Ti lmo ; re trials ; it was on the Tuesday ..after the not at t e . Jaitarie , sheriffspoke to Wm. Graham ; did not bear that conversation, but heard the sheriff say, I have the Orange panel in my bet;" heard nothing particular before this. Its young Mr. S'ibthorp was passing out witness asked him " when these unfor. tunate fellows would be brought to trial 'r" he made no answer;. the Sheriff's remark was in a loud tone of voice. \Viii. Gra ham was one of the traverser*, and the Sheriff was near him ; he was there when witness tined entered the room. Mr. Sibtliorp is a painter anti glazier ; but is no,relation of Graham ; he is a friend of Mr. Thorpe ; witness was aware of this 'at the time. On examination by Colonel Banity..-;-The Sheriff left the room at the same time as the witness. Heard no conversation previous to the expression in question. Mr. Garret Waddat ab,ented himself from Dublin ; does not know the cause of this. Witness deals in the wholesale way ; no part of his stock be longs to Mr. Wadden. Was on good terms with Wadden when this conversation took place ; is not now : has an objection to state the cause of the quarrel ; never had any' conversation with him about this. Was first called upon to give evitlete;e by AVadden ; was first examined about this by Mr. --(name inaudible), et his house; 'Wadden went with me. CoUld not possibly be mistaken as to the expressions. There were persons in the room who Might not hear them. No one was nearer to the Sheriff than Graham. 'Witness was the next nearest. Ile was about as far from witriess as witness is now . irons the table. lie did not speak loudly. His tone was rather low. All the persons were sitting at the time; witness also: There were cards in the room ; but the Sheriff was not playing. Did not sup that night at the Shakespeare. By a Mr mut:rt.—The expression Seas not directed towards Graham. Witness understood the meaning of it. Thought the Sheriff acted us a party friend. Was certainly surFrized at the expression. By Mr. Goo I-MlNX—Can't say how-long the party had as sembled before witness went there. The Sheriff used other re markable expressions. One of them was, I wish the devil had the Marquess Wellesley out of this." He made use..of other expressions ; hut witness can't repent them. First com rnunicated the expressions OA the followmgday to Wadden anti M‘Nally. By Mr. Bitiowe—Doeit not know whether these facts were communicated to the Attorney-General of Ireland before the Trials. , By Mr. Ceires—The expressions about Lord IVellesle.y . were heard by all the persons. They were uttered by the Sheriff just as he was leaving the room. No remark was made in consequence by any person present. B y M r . BROWN Low—Graham is connected with some News.: paper Office; did not know that he was then charged with as p saulting the Lord Lieutenant ; heard that afterwards. By Mr. BROUGHAM—About nine or ten persons altogether were present. The witness toes withdrew, and on the motion of Mr. JOHN WLI.LIaMS, • Peter Tomlinson was re-called. He corrected a former state: ment in his evidenee.—He had, in fact, seen Mr. Smith twice. Does not know whether he was on the Jury. After a short conversation as to going on or not, it was order, est that William Poole should be called in. After abuse pause, the CHAIRMAN informed the Committee, that he understta4 Poole could not attend, he having been injured by a fall from the stage coach on his way to London. Col. BARRY said he was given to understand that Poole had been seen walking about the streets of London yesterday. The Serjeant was then examined at the Bar, said ultimately directed to proceed to No. 6, Downing -street, the present reai-, dence of Poole, and command his immediate attendance. Mr. GOLJI,BURN took the opportunity afforded bins by thi pause. to give notice, that he should, on Friday next, bring the, Irish Tithe tptest on before the House. a t r o ld speide it u,a a s h r O e U s t a t l h v O ed l : , ,, si t ti t ir e Tax, l‘tr * w e ll ‘ e 'fi C e ß w it a t s ' e r a P t o r " o r e e d d e r i n t g instance of Colonel liannY, to call in anti examine Mr. Sheriff Cooper. Mr. Sheriff Conper was aceordingie called ht. Mr. CA LeTA FT said, &at as the ( ittliant. Col. had suggest ' ed the calling in of the Sheriff, he would probably examine him. Colonel BARRY said, the Sheriff had been summoned by the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Westminster. Mr. at Tlie ~ll‘eAunfurtunattla jber ul s in w detl e °:fr Collected. observed,rttte (Siinla:tllilr:l) indisposition. l'hw t I f t lo.4ll4leeotilan, proceededani in fi wle e 4 o : — i9no; ibt 17na:tn 01411;italnlerjuisrr reeloaftitvhoetotihtteric!l;reosfein)tuibniqi:itl.iryll; aciolloolecktsosntraicktiinvga