The Sun. — London, England, 1812-06-23 00:00:00

the people should be caned into action, ankthat no dissension should arise to lead to a dismember ment of t lrc bilipire ? The third general .princi ple was this,• that when then existed such a state of-things as that to which be had alluded, which, by 'chalice, .or the force of events, beyond- the _eontroul of roan, could not be .avoided, that a; great Permanent question, which ,agitated the minds of , the community, remained unsettled, and could not be nettled by compromise without • the interference of the suprerfie power, that then it was 'not sate to leave it in An unsettled state ; suffer it to he afloat ; but that : it was. the duty of . Parliament to make up their minds, and finally to settle the question bVegislative interference. To this last principle he - was not aware of any ea ception, nor indeed could any exception be made ' for, in-such a state of things e .nothing could be more dangerous than to-leave the question wild and unsettled, subject to puhlie discpssions - and dissensions. • The best way of Meeting such a state of things, was to definethe made hest cal culated for removing the possibility of.agitating the question at all. These were. all the assume- tions which' he thought necessary to bring ' for ward, as the gidde of his motion,, and he was not aware of any general principleS of equal:.: ufhority on which to rest for decision. Ike, Was aware, however, that those avho looked at the qUestion, did, when they objected to the introduction of any change into lorig-established principleS, con tend; that there were • two. great political 'ques tions which came in conflict with each other, and interfere to the prevention of his assumed prin ciples. The first of these principles, and that was the most general and consequently most popular of the two, ,was this : the dread of innovation, and the danger of change. The seeOnd was, the question of timely concessions. In answer to these principles, the .question always would be, whether in that which was demanded fon could or could not .grant the demand, or you,ought or ought not to withhold it; and . • granted, in what manner the concessiOils eauld be made, so as to .secure - the greatest ' possible, safety, and incur the smallest degree of danger: Those who argued the questiOn on general grounds maintained that to break in Up on the established order of things was a task of veat difficulty and danger. The assertion of the danger of innovation Very naturally implied that some fixed and regular state of things NI as iwax istence, a state formed by the deliberate wisdom of Statesinen; carried on by long experience, and, acquiesced, in by the . practice of the Constitution. 7n looking at the Penal Code under which the . Catholics of Ireland have lived, and still live, he,must ask of those who raised the ques tions, who stood for ancient ways, who would not depart from established principles, at what period of our .history it was they conceived this principle to have arrived at its utmost perfection ? when it was defined, where . built, when it re ceived the finishing hand, and at what precise time- it *as- incorporated into the Constitutions of tht Empire ? ' Must the House look baCk to that period when the principles of Christianity first atenk root— r when, the convulsions of the World first made it necessary that civilized society should receive .those advantages originating with the System ; Did those who aligned - for such an establishment pretend. to .say that a perfect form ei worship was to be found, laden as the religion was subsequently with 'all kinds of corruptions, as Providence often originated good out of evil ? When the lust and pride of Henry 17111. induced him to interfere, and though one of the greatest tytauts that ever existed., to produce that bles sing----the Reformation, was the purity of the re -then ,at its.. height ? . Was it in those times that this established order was the most , pure, when that monarch wreaked his vengeance Jinni ly - on Catholic and .on Protestant ; when those who were for the Pope were hanged, and those who were against him were burnt ; Was it in those times, when in lieu of constitutional guards, proclamations were the order of the day ?. Was t in those times they would look for security against innovation ? Was it in the reign of Eli za-eth, denominated a glorious reign ; but of ii-hich the latter years were oppressive upon the subject, and mischievous to the .Empire ?- 11 - hen she exercised most of the cruelties which her predecessor had exercised, at least pot .far' short of them, inflicting on the sect which the early part'of her reign had overthrown, the bar barities which that sect had, inflicted on those of the Reformed Religion,—would they kok for a precedent there ? Would they go to the reign of Charles the First, when the professors of the Ro man Catholic Religion in Ireland, those who wielded his arms, were dealt haedly by ? Howe little cause had they to bless that Monarch who established -a .system of extermivation,SWhich he acted upon to the manifest . danger of the State. Wags it-any of these periods they looked . to; or did they wish to comedown to that period in which some Gentlemea were of opinion the Constitution' first began, namely, .at the RevOlution? . The fact was not so"; the Revolution hadthe merit of connecting civil slavery more strongly with poli tics. If it was meant to be contended that this desireble . state of things was to he- found at that period, he should deny that assertion—that state - was not perfected -till later tithes, until the reign. of Queen Atine, and the period in which the two first members . of the House of Hanover were seat ed on the throne of these realms ; -then, and not till then, could it be,said, that the system was ar rayed, With perfection ; for from the, time of s Cromwell up to, that period, it was nothing leas than a system of artificial benefits, calculated to cramp the. exertions, azid to feed that principle which was unproductive to the people of the Em- • pire ;. that was the policy which statesmen justi fied—which Ministers put forward, and which during three reigns they laboured to establish. V 'as it at periods like these that Gentlemen would take their stands, and say that this was a system which must not be,moved ; yet this was the sys .tem generally persevered in till the commencement of the presentsreign. The situation of the Catho lics till 1769, was such as he had stated. Cut off from all-the social relations in life—the lavir inter fering between the husband and wifea—between the - child and his father—leading the wife to fotego her duties—the child to treachery and, diSobedieuce— offering a premium tothe sonto rebel against, hia pa rent, and disfranchising the father orrtheallegianee 'Of the "ion—a( 4 l-lear). such Mode of proceeding was not in the true spirit of British Legislation; yet that was the blessed period in. which those who argue agsnl3t innovation would wish to con tinue.. To disturb the Penal Code was consider ed by theirs' as an innovation. To the institution. .thus formed belonged the peculiar quality of • de cay., for when at the age of maturity,. before it began to flourish it began to decay. Other sys-. tents after they wereonatured spread and flourish-. ed. It was not until the expiration of fourteen years . that the first relaxation of the Penal Code was put in practice. In' 1774 the Government of Ireland. fintod. that they gave way, Was it not true that in .the . history of the Penal Code political clisaffecti on. was made the. ground of obL jection to granting those roncessions'ewhieh the subjects demanded as 'a right ? In all the reigns to which be had referred,-the objection was held. Jr. BOrnett's History of the reign of Elizabeth, asfar as regards,.the latter end of that reign, her Secretary, Waisingham, said, '' that her mind was averse to persecutiona- e that it was not until the liSt twenty years of her reign that she relaxed from her mercy; to persecute the Catholics, not for religious scruples, but for the sake of poll . - tical - opinions." This opinion was maintained by various writers before the relaxation of the Penal Code. An eminent writer, Justice Black 'stone, •had borne.testiinony to the truth of this assertion. The Right 'Hon.. Gentleman referred • to the opinion of that eminent person in respect to the 'laws .affecting Papists, and quoted a long extract from that celebrated writer in-furtherance of his positions. • The Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to the preambles and provisions of various acts passed in Ireland upon the question of relaxation-since 1774, which generally went to premise that the: Catholics-were of peaceable de- . meanour, and affectionate attachment to the State, Arid therefore they enacted that certain tests should , be-proposed and accepted 'by the Catholics, as a means of conciliating the people, and uniting the "'resources and Strength of the empire. •- He would ask those -most elamortnis for the con tiuuance. of- the disabilities,. who were not anxious to depart from ancient :usage, 'when and where :the wisdom- of our ancestors was to 13,: found, Which should induce them to stand up for a system which flourished 'for a short time, but which had been Gradually going to - decay for 'the last 50 years. It was for them to shew to the House where the hazard of innovation lay. Experiments had been tried, told' as, matter of history would speak more forcibly than any thing he could state. Relaxations had, been tried, and what was the consequence; danger had occurred ; on the contrary security to the State had followed. The Govermnent of Ire . land had given to the experiments thus made com plete-operation, and abstaining from the exercise of those principles, which in more violent times had been resorted to for the extermination of the Popish population of the country, which was en-, deavoured to be effected by the enactment of statutes, imposing the disabilities to which he had • alluded. The question was, therefore, whether in the subsequent statutes passed, in which he was disposed to admit that More of lenitv, of con ciliation, and mihhiess had been shewn, there was not more of wisdom. To illustrate the wisdom of dealing nobly by those in your power; be would refer to Ancient Roman history : the Re poblic's arms were victorious when surrounded ,by theSamnites at the Caudine. The vietoeious General, when in posses , iOn of the defeated army, sent a message to an ancient Senator, ,his father, to lino* - what he should do' with the vanouisfied army. The answer 'to the message was, " Disj miss them unransomed an] unarmed." ,This an swer not seeming correct to the Captain, he dise . patched the Messenger 'again to the Oracle, .re quiring another answer. The secOnd reply was —" ExtermiCate them to the last men." The contrast between the two answers so astbaished the ComMander, that he conceived the intellects of his father were- impaired, and he sent again, , and he -was brought before hiM .to the Camp when asked' how he reconciled the two Conflicting Answers? he replied :—" My first council was to send off the vanquished, and in so doing you would have conferred a benefit on your country, for you would have secured to it the everlasting grati tude of a \ brave and powerful people." .being required to. explain his- second answer, he reaee plied, " My second council was the. consequence . , of your not attending to my first; for if you ex terminated that army, you had resolved not to grant- Mercy to; you would have got rid of a determined enemy.'h Instead of attending to this advice, he neither eXterininated nor conciliated; but' pasSed- them home under a yoke. If it. was necessary formerly to conciliate, and identify the Popish part of Ireland with the Protestant part of the Empire, lt'would not be 'denied that , such an union was new more than ever desirable.--= ' With•respect to all the old-fashioned doctrines, that 'Catholics denied that it was possible to keep faith with heretics, these were, or certainly ought to be by this time, entirely exploded. The re cognition of such doctrines as these would imply a detestable principle little suited to the caught-. coed spirit of the times. The tests which for the last 30 years they had been in the practice of sub sceibing to, were proof of the sincerity of their attachment to the•Governntent of the Realms: It was a curious fact,' not generally known, what sort of oaths the -Sovereigns of .Scotland took at the Restoration. King William and Queen Miry had; in the oath which they took to govern that kingdom, a clause to this effect We swear to be careful to root out all heretics convicted by the true Kirk of Scotland and of God, of any crimes." • Now . what mode did they take of root-. in s ; out these heretics ? Why, King William re— monstrated against the oath ; but the Commis sioners told him, that he must put his own con 4 struction upon it, and being of opinion that it meant no such thing, be consequently swallowed the oath.'lt' would be a little hard. to say 'that King William, in a metaphorical sense, rooted out heretics. The Right Hon. and Learned Dr. Duigenan, who, drew up the oath of the Sta - - tute passed in Ireland in 1793, held, that 'both were nut bioding on the fugitive and volatile con- sciences of Catholics,' and he framed such an oath as'they were bound to digest. TheLearnen D6c tor had said that the Catholics were not quiet dontented—that .they looked abroad—and that • they Would rather be the stinject tit any Ottlig state in Europe. His objection to a doctrine of this kind.was cif atwo-fold nature. In the first place, .he (Mr. C.) did not like to teach them to look abroad for comparisons—the - best way of dealing with them, was to enable them to make compari sons of their state with that of their fellow-sub- ' jests at home, and. to Coavince theirm, that though they roamed abroad for speettlative ideas of 'hap piness, yet their feelings and wishes ought to be at twine, which would have the effect of feeon ening them with their situations at hone. When - we looked to the Continent, and saw all. nations ) ._ tongues, and languages, and creeds, fighting . under one banner against us, it was time to recur cite the differences upon religious. matters—it was time to aini, e the aftections,,aod to secure the loya;ty of the people. If we looked to Rwsia, and examined time polity of that great power marching at the head oran immense. force with an Arch-Choneellor, Roman Catholic Seeretary, and a Protestant General, and looked to Austeia; saw Hungary in. 1809, when Buonaparte issued a proclamation, inviting the people to throw off the. yoke of Austria, at a time when they had a Ro man Catholic Government, a Protestant and three schiSmatie churches, these. WP,S surely something to-induce the Government of this coun try to. imitate the spirit of coneiljation which bad animated the other nations of the' world. Wintt was the conduct of Spain, 'in whose cause we were so eager—to whom we recommended a liberality of system. with rOpect to her Colo. nies ? Would not Spain, if we persevered in- our conduct to Ireland, turn back and desire us to look at home, before we ventured to dictate to them in the administration tof the Government of their ColOnies?, Such a retort iniolt be reason ably expected, There Were tiniSe who, , referring tothe transactions ofancient limes, held them up to deter any concession to the C.,"ttliolies. GOod God ! what' Would be said of the o Catholies, if they, adverting- to the cruelties of Anabaptists ofMurister; to the blood-thirstinesS of Henry and Elizabeth,; represente&thent as the tenets Of the reformers.? To such 'inferences .we should object; but tbe . Catholies. had asnnuelm right to refer to them as we to the practices of their pro getritoeS. • Such horrible atrocities in cold: blood, only proVed the danger of allowing religions to mix with political rcclin Nothing could be more repreoensilmle than the -various attempts niade t(s recalltheattention of thepeople to scenes of former times, with which the present feelings . and disposition of the Catholics - had nothing to do. Anion?: the.most culpable of these was a pub- lication illitstrted by plates, which it was shock- ' ing to see in every shop -window, describing the massacre of St. Bartholomew, and which was..cal cuiated . to produce the. most mischieVous effects. Why was this published. at the present" Moment What was the curiosity that demanded it.? Whit bad the present-British. public to do with Charles ; 1.X.0 or ..A.dnoiral Coligny ? Why, for a :petty triumph on a political question, . risk by such ex- posuees, the tranquility of an_ Empire? The most, atrocious - O'nart of the, :,,publication 'was the dedication to the memory of the Right Honourable. Spencer Perceval o . , the Prime Mi nister-of these Realues,„ whose relative situation, it stated, thongli naturally, to the. -eStablishraents of this country, similar to:that Of the chief vie- tiin of themassacre of Si. Bartholomew to France; - end Who, like him o fell a martyr to his.doty to his King, to his Country, to his - dod! SoliOpuElent an attempt, within a abort month of the tranisa.c,.. tion to.which it referred, did not jive in the re .cords'of violenee aod'infanaY:' . The House would do him the justice to believAL 'That in- saying this he was actuated by no political or - per, son al animosity, towards his late. Right Hononr,, able F-iend. Were he -.(Mr. Perceval) in that House oa the present occasion; be trysted• they would diseuss ,thelanestiAn'befOrethem with the feeling brothers: He knew not who was totake his Right.-Hon Friend's'stand, hekneW not who was to wear .his annOur, bitt he kneW that he wont(' willinglyundergothe force of his arguments, so the House could have' the delight and advantage of presenee.—The concluding part of the pre face of the. work to wh-ich .ime had just. alluded, showed the feelings of the Writer. It declared, that the massacre of Si. 'Bartholomew conveyed to posterity the truth" thati'opists kept no faith with Ifrotestants , It was • a curious fact that this was not the first time thatthe massacre of St. Bartho lomewhad been used .for vile 'and Sinister pur poses: . Mro Burke,: in his letter on the French Revolution, mentiOnedoits having been brought forward oil the Parisians stage in the early part of that Revolution, and that the object was • clear-, ly to teach the ildeabitants of Paris to persecute. Reverting to o the imthediate subject :which was _the obje t of . his motion, he observed : that the highest authorities Were.tin the - side ottheCatho .lies. Mr, littrke, whose prophetic celerity outran that of any other human being'—Mr. Fox, Whose loVe of liberty was most. ardent-731r. I . Vindham with a mind cast in another 'mould; who observ-, ed with apprehension ' an , approach to . extension of .civil liberty---Me,Pitt,.Whose ardent .attach meat .to the 'established religion of his country, was tempered and restrained by genera.' and prac teal views ,of human nature e ,all concurred in . supporting the claims of the'! . Catholics. The question ‘. ! .. 7C3 not what were the, ekisting dangers, but' hoW additional concessions would increase. them ? It lay on the opponents of • concession to prove, that one further step would establish . the Popish' Chnech to ; the destruCtion of the Proteitant. lt'had been said, that Parlia- Meat ought not to give political. power to . Irish Catholics. They bad given it. • They had given the elective franchise. to, • them. Under the ciretunstanCes of a il?parate Tarliament, he ,could easily understand wiry :any. hesitation '.inight take - place • With respect to the admission, of Catholics into that Parliament, lest they - should out-number the Protestants ; but, in the Parlia- , Meat,. of'the 7:'United , EMpirt, he 'bad no diffi cuttyiyt that a . *Tired Catholic_ Gen tlemen" is OOLI be le,s's dangerous,. danger were .a term at all applicable in- the pre sent' ease), than a large hotly of Catholic -flee :: : tors let. loose to followthe di6ates! of their own inclinetion, and who perhaps - wOuld exact from their RepreseiltatiVes greater deference to 'their inelioations, for the want of. ,sympathy which mast exist . between them. it had been refused to admittsl'..k*: asiineoaislita l f rank,. Weft and' for Virtue, and the co - attain herd had been permitted to enter the pale of concession: 116 concession must be complete if that proposition' were made by piece -meal, if would be froth time to time rejected. He was most anxious that,the C t 'aaholics should be taken out of the handS of those.who agitated them for their own purposes. TO correct the minds of ssch persons was beyond hunian power ; but it was within human poWer to rob them of th pretexts for disturbing the ge neral 'tranquility; and next to - the gratificatios :which he aaollici feel in seeing the Catholics pose asessed of their tfgletS,Wiiiild': that of finding tidk :disturbers of thc. phbliepeaccto Which he had ,ala luded, disappointed in their 'expectations. It had _'r been said in another place; that when, the Ca/4"- ,tho!ies were asked to give security for the existing esteslishasents, they replied, «Sheer us the danger. to them." . A fair answer. If the - Catholics - dict not. see the;dangers, how could they becXpecte4 to suggest the security w : as•their hudnesS td• submit to the provisions of security, but :not. tO" provide them-. Adverting to the irritating speechei and, :‘, - -ritihgs during the American :war, whicli were productiye of so much misehitf. he entreat , . ed' the House to:be cautious lidsv they stativrect such productionS of unauthorized men -is the pre' ,sent-day ,to produce similar effects with respeet the. Catholics:.; Let not Great Britain shut lief eyes to the example of other countries. In the great empire. of , Russia existed a Catholic' estair hlishmenta and Episcopacy not dcpendent..onrthl Pope, except spiritually. hi France;, the Cathol' lie Church 'experienced a liberty from the thoP" dom of the Pope, which it did not enjoy e even a ia the days' of Louis the Fourteenth... ;When W saw all this, when - we saw that it was impossi" We' the Pope could recover, his power ; wti we . saw the Mitigated spirit which prevailed in , modern times, and which 'Mitigated and allayed' the violence of religiorss dissensions; surely via could not. consider it ali p iricult to unite with eon' cession to the , Catholics 'seeurity to the Prist6te . ant Church. He avould a'bstaiu froru dWelliag ou that part of the subject, because he thought would be" enough• in the present iastance for Par' liament to declare its deteredination to take till sahjecteinto its own consideration with a view t'" a conciliation, and toe - the adoption of; any alccl . nor measure which the Executive Goyernmelit, the interval of the appr*liing - recess, mig' l 4l have an opportunity Of devising and modifyillk In framing the .'propositibn which le was 1 0)0 14 to submit'to the House, he had followed two p cecinas ; the one; that of Mr. Secretary Foxe 1. 1783, which gave to Ireland apolitical ConstL; tution ; the .other, that which preceded: the filial abolition' of the Slave Trade. In ahe .first of th - e 5. 'cases, 'Mr. Fox moved a Resolution thatfritb ll'oilse` in the, next 'Session would take the. sot jest into consideration. That resolution Nv".' communicated: to the House' of Lords, and in-th e next. Session (altho'ugh a dissolution Of Tafli 3 ; meat: intervened), a. Bill -Was -carried thedass; the House. to effect the desired object:" It - true that. Mr. rex was at that period - power' and. the Executive Goyernuient was theaosV 4 r. prised. of the ,proposition.. To supply-04 . 440'1 in the present instance, he should m c oase tfl'° ° t Resolution, to lay his fiest Resolutida at the of hiS Royal Highness the 13,egent. slia ; e"`, 1 :0= 1 ; ed the House. to consider, that if t 4 hey„ l -r 1 i t ., take. the question into their Own... e h:lab-a- would not therefore rest.. A subject alf ec to ing so large a • proportion, amounting nearly a half of the populatioo it was in vain to hope woultrreniaite - Kiagit 3 h If left to licliseussed out of . dadis';-''it. - 'was . known to what heads and liandS.ii - Wotif - d4)ec ti . e signed, and in w'aat tone. 'it Would be-taken-hAsi,'?' Whoever advised Parliament to turn the''ireg' - , th e loose upon the people, instead of Cullutlilig, -discussion of it within.the.Wallseof that 1 - I" u ' e .: incurred,, in his opinion, a deep and 1 , 04.0 / ha Before - he made , his :motion , tes wished to say a few win* wit:hre:pea r io r Roman Catholics Of England. 13 . y their exentr nth cohduct theY.liad entitled themselaea, to the oc e most indulgence of Parliament. -• In this inst 3 t he they had waved any particular application to iii , Legislature, and wished their claims - to be. e, eluded iii the general 'consideration. He cont.,..' io t ed by moving the following. Resolution ea-- the. House will, early in the 'next: Session - of ' ea s liathent, 'take into its Most: serious conside''' r 10 , the state of the Laws 11..tectieg his Majesty' s e , man Catholic subjects in Great Britain aw r l ' tor a land, with a view to such a final and coeci" li d adjustment as 'may be conducive to the peace eil ity - strength of the United Kingdom, to the stsw ee, of the Protestant Establishment; and to th e n i4 neral satisfactiOn and concord of all Classes Of 'Majesty's' Siihjectse • • tio a General Marrnew' had objected to the L e brokiehf forward on thisssuhjeet by aes•loble. ill-ti al e merely on account of its having been be et the Petitions of the .Catholics not having ra e before Parliaments He regretted - that the P t i e e position had not proceeded from the El' eCu of Government. It was true, that the opi-Oict to his Roy ail, Highness the 'Regent; with resP‘', aog s• the claims of the. Catholics had materially. o ed ; but :he reprobated the language Triv e t `.:. 4 ,0 daily lusta towards his:Royal Highness, as he L ies persuaded. that : his 'Royal t lighnessWas 31 ' t oe bottom of his heart a friend to lrelaud, anidigritaa ' Empire.at large, although his great and en . (o at, ed mind had been miged . by evil and hie e islet Counsellois." 'He proceeded to advert to . oe det tory, of former rebellions is lielatid, w oo to . prose 4 the loyalty of the Catholics, ,j be 'were 'not concerned in those , miseries of -Ireland-, he dated from the dep'4 l : l ,. Earl Fitzwilliam from the Government.o.Vore, • country. From that period; bigotry, intoit r , o e :'biipreilion, cruelty, and 'coercipu, b ec ame. w ie - ti es: 'Roya - 1 ' der of the' day. The speech of a as the (the Duke of Sussex), in another place, best he had ever heard in proef of the lori r a ir dia li the Irish Catholics. Ministers, by ta. Lar o ft cal . machinations, had infected the 'Roy" c ove to ; this Subject, and if. any Member .Would 01 0 ) . I:,ebeiFon,3.,ure O. impeech them for their conduct, b . e a 5 sired ca til that h should ootevant a seconder, I.'net ,t ,nie , P, paupers' into ' though they, lioN: 11 ' ( t ea ch in' ease - and affluence. "'People of -VAte 014. exclaimed the General, " !: criminal conduct to lae allowed recede-