The Sun. — London, England, 1852-05-12 00:00:00

THE upon religious sub- I Church.. You can do much to break it up, by acting in a 1 in hi s pl ace , and probably his opinions " t,tiviltr:t of kindness, f o rbearance, and generosity."-(Cheers.) I jeers had undergone as mach Oman° es his opinions up in bon , h r eason why I recapitulate this brief history of the Slay- I sacc h ar i ne matters.-(Hear, and a laugh ) Now, he was irr 1 purpose grant is to call back the attention of the Housl to the a pos iti on t o carr y ou t those wise and coociliatnrY ineaeuree th o 'r )s e for which the grant wee made, to consider how f ar h e so mac h a a rn i r ed.-(Renewed laughter.) Ta!kittg of the I grant 'e Purposes have answered to justify a continuation of the character of the Irish priests having changed, aoil accusing as it is, and a refusal of any inquiry. The three put- them of a want of allegiance to the preseat Sovereign, what poses for which the grant was made, the " - House w ill maim _ sa id the Noble Lord who was suppos e d alone to r epresent the ..er are these c -To secure a well' educated, lo' 'al, and domes - chivalry in this House? - the Noble Lord, the First Commis be Priesthood; to provide funds fer the instruction of that Eimer of Woods and Forests, when Prie ethood which the Roman Catholics were supposed to be " As free as nature first made man, too poor t • And wild- in woods the naked savage ran." h.... to provide for themselves, in order that the priest ogd might be brought up in a manner suitable to their holy (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) In one of the best speeches ha break and the position they would afterwards fill; and to ever delivered,t and. he had spoken many good ours, he said : leak up by generosity that formidable conspiracy-(An "The cry is raised, ' The Church is in danger.' I admit that feonourable Member-" Confederacy ;" and " Hear, hear , " i t is ; but not from this grant to Maynooth, nor from the from f Irish M em b ers )-th break up that formidable con- Vatica n, nor from the Jesuits, that the Irish Ch u r c h i s in de racY 'which existed in Ireland against the British peril ; it is from herself ; from her own self-willed and dis °vernment an d the British connexion. These were the obedient laity that she is in danger. They who would have , 1 1 1 ,Nects for which that grant was made and perpetuate d. her isolate herself from the rest of Catholic Christendom, ell, then, I ask, has the grant in any instance answere d fraternize with the Puritan, and denounce p rie stc r a f t with the Purpose tor which it was given ?-( Hear, hear.) That the Presbyterian ! I admit the Church to be in danger. I 1 8 a question which I think you are bound to answer for am irresistibly reminded of the dying words of the matte-red 'ourselves before you determine whether any Committee of Laud on the scaffold. They may who list trace all the glory, I nquiry is necessary or not. Has the grant, or has it not, pro- renown, and magnificence of the old English monarchy to tided a well-educated, loyal, and domestic priesthood for the the. Dutch conquest of 1688, even in the penal code and Pro- People of Ireland? It may have done so up to a certain testant ascendancy the safeguards of the empire; but, for Point, but ob serve what rumour says, for I am not g oin g to m y self, I cl aim a liberty to mount higher, and to. act in give any opinion of my own upon the sub j ect.-( Del isive 1815 as thou g h William 111. had died Stadtholder of Hol cheers from the Irish Members.) What I say is this, that land."--(Hea r , hear.) Is he going to act in 1852 as if there i s s t ron e• reason to believe that many of the priesthood William of Orange had died Stadtholder of Holland?- educated in tat college are members of different orders, who (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord proceeded with some very are sent out to different countries, and who do not remain a pretty poetry :- domestic priesthood in Ireland.-(Cheers.) And, if I am "The priests, those gentle priests and good, right in my conclusion, I say that it is a material ground Their fathers loved to hear, • . for us to go upon before we decide at once to withdraw the Sole type below, midst work and woe, grant made for giving a domestic priesthood to Ireland, to Of the God whom they revere." see if it be applied for the purpose of giving a priesthood to " Acknowledge frankly, and at once, that po wer which other countries, and to inquire whether we are spending Eng- you admit to b e so grea , t, and . which hitherto , with a fatal lish money for such purposes. - (Loud Ministerial cheers.) obstinacy, y ou pretended to ignore. Accredit a minister But, independendently of.that, has or has not the character to the Vati c a n -(Ch e ers)-receive a Nuncio at St. James's of the priesthood changed of late years? I suspect the an- -(Cheers and laughter.) . • - • With every feeling of sever must be instead of domestic influence, foreign influence confidence as a Churchman, that lam not acting disloyally has more weight with the priesthood in Ireland.-(Loud towards the Church in sanctioning this measure, and, as a cheers.) I think we shall find that the priesthood of Ire- statesman, that I am promoting the best interests of my land, instead of confining themselves, as they ought to do country. I give my vote for the permanent endowment of to the purpose of extending and supporting their own re- the College of Maynooth." Those were the opinions of two ligion and their oe n religious views, have, in fact, proved members of the Cabinet-two consistent supporters of the of an a g gres s ive character, which does constitute what Sir permanent endowment of Maynooth. But there was an n. Peel calls a confederacy-I will not say a formidable other member of the present Cabinet who consistently op confederacy-against the British Crown and the British posed this grant-the present Chancellor of the Exchequer connexion.- (Cries of " Hear, hear," from Mr. G. H. the man who carried brains with him.-(A laugh) He Moore]. I allude more particularly to wh a t h as t a k en place (Mr. Osborne) must crave their forbearance ; thoug h a fte r since Dr. Cullen was raised to the Primacy of the Roman the polemics they had had introduced by the reverend gen- Catholic Church. The character of the Priesthood of Ireland tle man- ( Loud lau g hter) -he begged the Hon. Gentleman's has been M a t er i a lly c h ange d by th a t measure. When the pardon-introduced by the Hon. Gentleman, the House Roman Catholics desired emancipation in the year 1814, I might be inclined to manifest some little impatience, but he e produce proofs to you, from the highest authority, that begged their attention to this speech of the Chancellor of they then laid it down as a proposition which they wished the Exchequer. because it was upon this speeech ~the Government to believe, that the domestic priesthood of that he based his opposition to the present mo re country would not be superseded by foreign bishopu tion. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. `eing brought over. Since we have had Dr. Cullen in Ire- Disraeli) was quarrelling not with Maynooth, but with land, we have had foreign influence exercised there, and Sir Robert P eel . It was in a s p eech delivered on the 11th of events so recent as in the last ear will show that the cha- April, 1845, and he believed that was the first occ a s io n wh e n teeter of the education of the priesthood in Ireland has not the Right Hon: Gentleman totally fell out with Sir R. Peel. been ‘ so domestic as the promoters of this grant 140 doubt an - The Ri g ht Hon. Gentleman o pp osed the present endowment, " ciPated.-(Hear, hear.) If this be so, Ido not say it is a but not u p on the grounds taken by the Hon. Member for Justification for you to take away the grant, but I do say it North Wa rwickshire. He had no feelin g in common with la a justification for ou to make the inquiry , i n order that the Hon. Gentleman; for, in fact, the Right Hon. Gentle- 1 the f ac t s - if they be not as I have conjectured-may be man (Mr. Disraeli) was asleep during the delivery of the rightly interpreted.-(Hear, hear.) With regard to the Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Spooner's) speech-not in a Tree second point-namely, the poverty under which the col. sury s l e e p , b ut in a bo na f ide slee p , if the .Ri g ht Houourable l ege was labouring, and the reaso n, therefore, for Gentleman ever did sleep. - (Hear , hear , and laughter.) "I / 17 ing an extended grant to that college. I remem- o p pose this Bill on account of the manner in which it has her when that Act b ht in it was accompanied been introduced, and on account of the men by whom it is fr e wasbrought Is(a , brought in by the Right Honourable Baronet the brought forward Are we to be told, that be , ember for Ripon, for establishing the Queen's Colleges in cause those men have crossed the floor of the. House, and 4 reland. Those two acts must be taken together , as part of have abandoned with their former seats their former profes -one measure. They were simultaneously introduced; they sions, are we to be told these men's actions are to remain wereo intended to have one object; they were Proposed with uncriticised and . unopposed, because they tell us to look to one view. That object and that view was a national and the merits of their measures, and to forget themselves and rnestte Roman one.. It was to heal religious differences, to bring their former protestations 2-( Hear.) Let us endeavour to '`,,Otnita Catholics and Protestants into one common scheme put an end to the misconception and subterfuge which now Jeducation, where asperities might be worn off, where con- surround us.-(Cheers.) You lave permitted men to filiation I might be encouraged, where friendship and good gain power, and enter place, and then carry measures h e'Llng mi ght •andwhere all le' n exactly the reverse to those which they professed in Oppo spring up, -live b unhappily afflicted that unhappy country, might be sition-(Hear, hear)-and you are reconciled to this proce er°ught to an end.-Hear, hear. ) How has that sue- dure by being persuaded that by carrying measures which ceded? Since Dr. Cullen . ' p •of Ireland you disapprove of and they pretend to aisrelish, they are there h _ e as been a synod at Thurles, and the decrees of that making what they call the ' best bargain' for you. The synod have been confirmed by the Court of Rome, and by Parliamentary course is for this House to have the advantage an those decrees no Roman Catholic bishop is allowed to have of a Government formed on distinct principles.- - --(Loud toybrac,e in any of those colleges ;no ecclesiastic is allowed cheers.) Here is a Minister who habitually brings forward a professor or dean in those colleges ; and the laity as his own measures those schemes and proposals which he Were aberecommended at least, thoueh not actually enoined, to bitterly denounced and opposed in Oppositiun.-(Renewed hear ' " ull fruill sending their children to them. - j (" Heel., cheers.) Let me ask the admirers of this 'best-bargain' G eni f rom Mr. G. H. Moore.) The Honourable system bow they think the Right Honourable Gentle- Gentleman cheers, but what is the inference which man would have acted in OPposition?" " Let us tell per re_c ?use and the country will draw from it? The infe- sorts in high places that cunning is not caution, and that ii r rents is, that the object which my Right Hon. Friend had habitual perfidy is not high policy of State."--( Loud laturein.ging in those Bills, and the object of the legie- cheers.) And in all his (Mr. Osborne's) reading be sect au Passing them-the benevolent and conciliatory ob- never read anything so graphic as the Right Hon. Gentle- Undei been defeated and destroyed by those who are acting man's definition of the state of Ireland, and upon that state i., . . foreign influence.-(Loud Ministerial cheers.) But meat he grounded his opposition to the present motion. He that is not l . Disraeli) said, " The present condition of Ireland was to th e n o al. Since that has happened, yon (addressing (Mr. Your rt. Member) have endeavoured to establish colleges-of be traced not to Protestantism, but to Puritanism-(Hear.) ~,...n own. If you establish those colleges of your own, you They would see a a teeming population, which, with reference in ot complain if we say it is for the purpose of separating to the cultivated soil, was denser to the square mile than eti u n ra Catholics from Protestante--(No, no)-of keeping that of China, created solely by agriculture, with none of civilize- Priesthood from the laity-(No, no)-and of keeping the those sources of wealth which are developed with civilize- (Ern e hs e ° ,' ; under foreign influence, by ultramontane laws.- tion, and sustained consequently upon the lowest conceiy- Poi n i - "c Cries of ~ No, no ," or d e r, and cheers.) The last able diet, so that in case of failure they had no Other means forth is thk, most material one. Sir Robert Peel said he sent of subsistence upon which they could fall back. That dense the honourable mein' o „,,„perre as a messenger of peace, that he sent it, as population in extreme distress inhabited . an island where . in a, id, - "r,assie Member f or N or th Warwickshire bad said, there was an t;stablished Church, which . was not their setti er a' . and confiding s pi r it -that he intended it to church, and a territorial aristocracy, the richest of whom *meld:Teat religious differences, and to break up this lived in distant capitals. Thus they had starving popti4i ther th ble Confederacy. I ask any man who hears me who- tion, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and, in e grant has had that effect-whether the system of addition, the weakest Executive in the world. That was the education Irish question."- (Cheers.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman, wh et ,there established has accomplished its object fele in the some of the best supporters of that Act have not apostrophizing Sir Robert Peel, and even then foreseeing, as reser l e greatest degree disappointed at the failure of the he (Mr. B. Osborne) predicted at he time, that he would o w , ~8 intended to flow from it?-(Hear, hear.) We feel one day be Minister-he said," The enonent you hale a strong roe4uiesaoppointment all the more bitter, because we have no Executive, a just Administration, and ecclesiast quality, e u h: f bringing about those beneficial and peaceful ye- you will have order and peace in Ireland."-(Loul cheers.) P ee p s nich I firmly believe - was the object of Sir Robert ( Here Mr. Walpole Was about to leave the House, when the ever overnment to bring about, when those two Acts Hon. Gentleman exclaimed-As the Right Hon. Gentleman ly,, L l , l ?tyodun e d.___(Hear, hear.) There is one answer which is going to find the volume, I will give him the date before he ti in " e ullipation I must notice, and it is the same as is con- goes.-(Laughter.) He will find it in a speech delivered April tie r l _ll the proposed amendment of the Honourable Mein- 11, 1845.) He continued-It was because there was. no f ori ne , re Kerry, that visitors of the College are appointed to ecclesiastical equality at this moment that he refused to be a the into the management, discipline. and government of party in aiming this one-sided blow at his Roman Catholic ofee college, k and therefore no inquiry by a Committee is fellow-countrymen. He could not look at this queslion in ter "arY. Has the Honourable Member referred year the light of a common endowment. He looked at it in the WhetliVr to the reports of those visitors? Does he know light and as of the nature of a restitution. These were the th .. r th e inquiries of the visitors will answer words used in this House by a Noble Lord, who was now e , e _,Dbiect of the honourable Member for North War- member of another House-the Earl of Harrowby, then Lord 'cleshire? I will take the last of these reports, and it &undon, who represented Liverpool; and they were used also !'s a very goo d samp l e o f the whole of them. The report by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London. goes into 1 ,...„ e any complaints by the president, any complaints The Noble Lord looked upon it then in the light of a restitu t7", superiors or professors, any complaints by the students ; tion. He hoped the Noble Lord still looked upon it in that " 11 as to the oath of allegiance being takeii by the light, and that he would not consent-though he lead been atude nt , o f .„. , and then into the detail of the number and duties quoted to-night along with Caseabucius - (Laughter) -that se the professors; then as to any change or alteration of he would not consent to be a party in. aiming this direct ieta ii °liege i d:scipline or any improvement in the system of insult at the Roman Catholics, that he. would not pander to 4.ecation within its walls. The visitors wound up by saying the prejudices of Englishmen, some of whom might be , w cl a. y , had concluded the necessary inquiries , and the House honest, but many of whom were merely scheming for the w ere in See all th e inquiries which they considered necessary next election- he hoped the Noble Lord would not pander subj ect inquiries which bad nothing whatever to do with the to the base feelings of these fanatics and schemers, and ,_ under discussion. I think that the inquiry ought to that he would resist the motion.-(Hear, hear.) He could not iol.,granted upon the three grounds to which I have adverted, understand a party talking of the love they bore to the Ro diti,seeing ate 1 do, or at least as I think I do, that the con- man Catholics, at the same time that they addressed them in ne _vri e upon which this grant was made have not been ads- terms such as were used by the Hon. Member s for North 1 1 - o ` 4 , !a: or completely fulfilled, and seeing that the reason Warwickshire, followed, as he was, in milder language rant as it was made are no longer existing to the same ex- though in the same spirit, by the Right Hon. the Home ;•.,n e s they were when it was made, since we hear that Secretary. If they eat erect into a political union with Ire. Ca- S' are forthcoming to endow other colleges opposed to the land, the mass of whose population were Roman Ca ' irtrwe intended to establish i and seeing that the objects tholics, they were bound to put the priesthood of that objects-have Robert Peel had in view-those Peaceful, loyal, domestic people on, a footing of equality with the Protestants. If th tB--have not been accompliShed as Parliament hoped Parliament wculd not do that-if they refused to give to toy;tVollid be'acComplished, I think the country has a right Irishmen their just rights-then he said they were bound 7; 4 k, and Parliament is bound to concede, some inquiry.- to dissolve the Union. But they had no right to come ._ l . icnd Ministerial cheers.) Unless I have been anticipated down to tlis House, and while they g.ve 35,0031. as m a by the cheers of Honourable Gentlemen opposite, who seem Begiurn Donum to the Presbyterians, refuse this paltry vote ` - (Hear lam shrinking from an avowal of my own opinions of 26,0001. to the Roman Catholics, and thus offer another that • ar, herir)-I wish those opinions to abide the .result of insult to the feelings of the mass of the population. But, Inqui r y, I did not with and I do not wish to prejudge said the Hon. Gentleman, in the true pulpit- ground style the question , -(Derisive cheers.) I repeat it again I did of oratory, I object to the propagation of error, and the not wish and Ido not wish to prejudge the question. The Hon. Gentleman quoted a great many extracts, which they result ..e of that inquiry may be a complete withdrawal or abo- all had the misery of hearing, from a variety of books, some c li e ti v n. of that grant, or such changes as- may be easily con- of which were not text -Woke of Maynooth at all. At one ted would amount to the abolition of the grant. From all time he. feared_ the lion. Gentleman was about to quote this,.l frankly say on the part of myself and on the part of the whole works of Thomas Aquinas, who wrote the Government, we do not wish to be precluded, but we 140 volumes -(Laughter.) lie also quoted from the works wish that there should be such an inquiry that the whole of a M. Baille, whose name the Honourable Gentleman question may be investigated, and so Sc tied at some future pronounced in such a manner that some Gentlemen thought cl ay, when the facts are known and ascertained, as to carry it was henry Baillie, a Member of this House-( Laughter.) cut the intentions of the Legislature, and contribute, as far He (Mr. Osborne) must protest against such a course. This May be. to the peace and prosperity of thecountry. ' House had no right to have its time wasted, its attention Mr. 0-3BORL • • BERNAL NL said, as he represented an distracted, and the worst passions of the people excited by English constituency, he might have consulted his general the speech of the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman convenience, and have, attempted to evade the question had no business to make this House a rostrum from which brought forward to-nigut. by the Honourable Gentleman the to address his North Warwickshire • constituents.-(Elear, thisember for North Warwickshire. But as he looked upon hear.) The Hon. Gentleman was followed .by the -Noble motion - mean attempt to raise as a , - Lord the Member for Woodstock whose abilities no one would (Loud cheers)-upon which Honourable Gentlemen might deny, and he had no doubt that when the Noble Lord had go to the hustings, he would not for one instant shrink from ' ex • • • • a little more information, and had read more of the books pressing his opinion, nor would he pander to what he con- wh h they alltold aidered base fanaticism, even should it lose him the c were Attlence of his constituency.-(Cheers.) The non con- come to the conclusions at which he now appeared to have e l ee ember for North Warwickshire commenced his speech upon arrived. But when the Noble Lord said he refused to pro :Ills subject, as he always commenced it, with assurancesp :e l f I'l'tgate error, he asked him how he would get over the fact t he greatest 'goodwilland love towards his Roman Catholic atest that In Mauritius,many of our colonies-in Malta, in Gibraltar, in the felle. and in Canada-Roman Catholicism was his next breath he followed it up telling but in a creed suin g the House, they professed subversive of looked al l • and injuriousto morality. The House had heard 1 egiance and, they would find that this House had guaranteed a nd therefore he need not follow the Hon. Member in all the the • • 'Meta'and text books, but Ireland ions he had made from casuists l establishment of Roman Catholicism. . Even in they would find that 280 chaplains of work- • ,e; for One, objected to the motion of the Honourable Mem- houses were paid and cerhe Ur House, v , because, when he remembered the course ( , supported by direct votes of this se. Nay, if he rememberedthe Government of rightly, looner) hadpursued, and the unmeasured length the day founded in 1833 always O ' d • • •always indulged of Hiacloo' a Hindoo college for the propagation . enunciation in which be had ism. He wondered if the Hon. Gentleman was as Zuli regard to his Roman Catholic fellow -subjects, he (Mr. well acquainted- with the Hindoo system . d • he would was persuaded the appointment of the Committee professed to be with Roman Catholicism? of divinity as What was the . b ould be only to confirm a foregone conclusion.-( Hear, llouse to think of the odourof e ar-) When the North Warwickshire at the Maynooth gnat and Hon. Member for swallowed the Brahminical camel? called upon the of educe- -(Cheers.) What were h then . House to inquire into the system ced those dot ' tey to think of a system which i Pursued in this college, it was not for the purpose of pronoun trines to be damnable th t ht lit;9_, iring into the , system.ofeducation, but for the purpose at Maynooth, and yet overlooked the • a were taug "` nestroyi ng th t , • /enda eat /e o ' - e oman Catholic system of religion. e- ea ?-(Continn d • eta Were they to suppose e cheering.) Honour- that- the lion Gentleman able Member„ had beef the constant of the le y , - .cry for North Warwickshire, together with •hie felt . loves his Ro ' "'ear, hear.,) He cheers that and yet he.follower the Home Secre man Catholic tart' who by the way was the only member Irish Members.! fellow-subjects.- ow-s h ts. (Ch from the Th e u jec - (.beers was not asleep during hi s of the Cabinet pelting to-ni g h t wh e Honourable Member had been re- that n. speech-(Laughter)- ference, that in 113 at;tke ~ rehearsed -in 1845, with thin dif- had greater respect for it htt doos there they had for Roman 4,5 te.er resist ; now hi s e r i enda a was a. great muster in power to Catholics? No;. e they knew that if . were there to treat India as they treated it into action. If anything 0 and were about to carry they werelreland this very speedily totter to • prise at the conduct of.th could. have increased his sur- 1 great empire would . its foundatiots - e pre the Right Honourable Secretary . aPeech uttered by I , tae Secretaryene Government it was the ! (Cheers ) • But then said o f character of the Roman Catholic priesthood was partment. Under the oice or " State for the Home De- that the language he left the Ilotise to imaginehis the chief conductors of the • Member for North Warwickshire e ar.) The Honourable 1 that they had been among Right Hon. Gentleman Insur from Sir Robert Peel's speeh a , . 'Noted several ! Con in 1848. Had the . •taken the to thi s in • extracts rec 1 the statistics of Maynooth? \V as be remembered right, the. Honourabl e al t r H Y- But if he pains to inquire into brought up at Maynooth amendment, the same as the motion he e n m o - -t Supported an aware that Primate Cullen was nut w m ad answer of Sir Robert e Peel was, that the p ower ue, and the at all? Was be aware that in might choose to call it, there and the power in the hands of the Loid-Lieutenant, the Visitors, or conspiracy, or whatever be h Maynooth who at all ci for the purpose ; and as to a utenant, were ; was ooly one riest connected with • Father Kenyon? Yet the would only increase animosity between Roman aY inquir Y it IsY th din it, and that was , , mem . ise I' Catholiindecency to come forward on rotestants, not only in Ireland, bat in this co cs and • i Right lion. Gentleman had the that he was for (Cheers.) And now he (Mr. Osborne) came to thr tr Y.- I the eve of a general election, and tel . them , e di-loyal, and Pursued by the then supporters of Sir Robert Peel and th e ! an inquiry, because he l`daynooth pnest h e w o t t r her ' hand, that 13,1;eent members of din Government ; and if he should be a 1 abetted rebellion. etas he aware, ee t • e e en athisers with little tedious is reag extracts not perhaps from su c h i sn7tY College, Dublin, furnished man.) ..? that the famous learned_ divines, but probably from as great statesmen, he l son" O . Brien ? - (Hear.) Was he aware mast throw himself upon the indulgence of the House. Th e 1 g which rang through all Ireland- ~ etle Member for You ry ghal had read to them the opinion of I was the " Whu fears to speak of '9B, e ll Stanley in June, 1845, and what he said upon an ' lien ?- , (Gear, e prcduction of a man educated at Trinity Co 6 e e. ' l ,adment proposed by the Earl of linden. When Lord ! b, a o r u , hear.) li . there was to be an inquiry at all, let it not orStanley upon that occasion-took that view, 1 them e, sided inquire ; let them oto Trinity CJilege—/et f"t did Mr. Paki t the present Secretary of State ' see what was tile systemadoptedall their places of or the *ng on, . education.-(Cheers.) tow _ Colonies, think ? "He did not think it in- l Hon. Member forers.) But a great point was made.by tli l 'un • with his duty as Churchman to give f borne Secretary, North NVar •• • by the A end _ a e that they vvicksinre, followed . c o l d a ompat of Maynooth his support-not a Protestants for the ey had no right to give the molly of r hesitating endowment once extracted by support-not a reluctant support ' denied that this was Protestantent of error. Now he at se r party tics, but a cordial and willing denied altogether that the money.-(Cheers.) Ile e e r t +Surls founded on deep conviction, first, that they must iin sense Protestant n icine so given to Maynooth wes lemurs to li eve Maynooth any money, lie h • . aee " (11 ' that this on its present footing; : cf the public revenue raised Irelandineld in his band a list ne 3, measure w Ise and conci li a tory po licy was called for as a step in that the sth of January, 1851, from which ior the year ending Government i'a towards !Ireland which every • total amount was 3,500,000/. sterling,e it appeared that the 0 fit, „ .should . attempt to carry out."-(Hear, hear.) ! tariff of taxation, it would be f and on examiniog the " 14 ` VSloorue) did not see the found that th Secretary for the Colonies ; population contributed. b y f i Y ar the larger e Roman Catholic • Proportion of that LONDON, stfm. The entiro public income of Ireland, including church revenues and , other sources, amounted to 5,000,000 e per annum ; and of this stern one million was given to the Protestant cleigy, mid 33,000/. to the Presbyterians, and only 23,0001. ,to the Roman Catholics; and yet they had the barefaced resumption_ to.comee down to the House and tell themithat this paltry grant was given from Protestant funds.—(Laughter and 'cheers.) ,Ho said it was Roman Catholic money; that it was tt.ease of restitution; and that it' all parties had their just' reehtsetb.e Protestant Church would, not be endowed as it was that day.. flu warned .the Hon: Member for North Warv,ickshire, who erefeesed such great and exceeding love for the Protestant Church of e land, that if there was one step mere fraught with mischief to that church than tauother, it was the step 'he had taien to- i n itghotnie Secretary , andeeinway brlc.h_h(eclveaesr) supported The by the Member t e li r lion. the North Warwickshire talked of the various sums which had been given to the Roman Catholic Church. He held in his band a list of the sums which had been given to, that church from the Union down to 1845. And now let the House see the treatment 'which the 'Roman' Catholics had received at • the 'hands of this House, and the rigorous' spirit • with which . they had treated Ireland. Since the Union 5,207,0001. had been given to the Eatab liehed Church: The Presbyterian Dissenters had received; 9,000/.; and let the House hear, and 'blush at the beggarly votes that had been given to the Roman Catholics, all they hed received was the sum of 375,000/. _When the • Hon. Gentleman summed up his speech he told the leletese. to beware how eteey endowed error. When lie (Mr, COperee) heard that, be could not hell) being reminded at the:evords of Mr. Grattan in 1797, who warned the Protestant clergymen to beware how they used such langedge as the Mu. Gentle man had now used, and reminded •them that it was not de- ' cent for them to say, give 'us all the good things in the name of God, and nothing to the others.—(Cheers.) What ever his views might be with regard to the amendment of the Hon. Member forYoughal and the abstract justice of en dowing any religious denomination, he certainly wouli never be a party to begin with his. Rename Catholic tellowesiubjects. if the House really intended to - enter into this subject, let them have an immediate inquiry into the funds of the Esta blished Chureb, and the Rogium Donum of the Presbyterians as well as of the Roman Catholic Church. Bat he would be no party to this attempt to prop up the rotten system of Protestant ascendancy by humiliating- the Roman Catholics. He would . not pander to the . party cry of the Government with which •to go to the hustings—a Government acting upon the doctrine-of com promise and expediency, .which had.been preached on a late occasion at the Maneion-house, and was now to be practised in St. Stephen's. He rested his opposition on the high ground Of truth and justice. If any one Wok it on the low ground of economy, he would remind them that it was hardly cone sistent in them to complains of theiowant of national defences —to - propose to add to the expenses. of the country -by en rolling 80,000 militiamen, while at the same time they were decuding themselves of their .best national defences—the confidence and the good will of-the people of Ireland. The Right Hon. Secretary, of all men, had noemesinees, to assent to this motion—he bed forsakenhla.pesition , as,a. Minister of the British Crown, to become the it inieter of .a mere party of fanatics.--(Cheers.) He realised, the prophecy of that truly great man the late Mr. Shell, who said,. in 1845., that if this country should ever fall so low as that Sir Robert Peel should be succeeded by a Minister who would pander ' to the base passions of religious bigotry in this country, a party would arise in Ireland of which they had little concep tion—a party who would call for. the repeal of the Union, not on futile grounds, but because that statesman had abdicated the position of a Minister, and bad split , up the empire by pandering to the fanatical passions of a portion ef the people.—(Loud sheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I beg the indulgence of the House for' a Moment, while I speak to a point to which reference has been made by the Hon. Gentle man who has just sat down. The Hon. Gentleinan quoted from a speech of mine which he said was delivered in 1815, and added that in consequence - of 'what he found in that speech he founded his oppositibn to this motion: There could be no mistake as to the particular speech referred , to, because he very ceurteausly , gave the date of it, the llth of April, 1845, to my Right Hon. Friend;, nor ,could._ there be any mistake as to the particular speech intended, be cause he said the speechionof the state d o f t the o w then bioh Mi n istry. The Hon. Gentleman then quoted what he called tahegrHapohuisce deserip listened t with attention. Now, there is nothing of what the Hon. Gentlemen quoted in that speech ; both my Right Hon. Friend and myself have gone over it, •and there is not a syllable of what the :lion. Gentleman quoted in the speech he referred to us.—(Hear,' hear.) - Mr. BERNAL .OSI3ORNEe—I reiterate my statement that it is to be found, iu page 361 of " mansard." If the Right. Lion. Gentleman wishes to get off' in his usual quibbling waY—(Lelighter, andloud cries of " -Oh, oh") f beg pardon — i u his usual ingenious way—(Cheers, and cries of " Oh") —I may State that the last extract I quoted is to be found in a speech delivered by' him on February 16, 1814, and surely the Hon. Gentleman pill not now eat his own wordseee(ol), oh.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The Hon. Gentleman professed to quote from a speech, 'delivered oil The 11th April, 1845. on the subject of Maynooth.—(Loud cheers.) I said there, was no passage of the kind to be found is the speech of April I lth ; and now. the Honourable Gentleman says the quotation is to be found in a speech de livered on the 16th of February, 1844. But what has that 'speech to do with the argument I used on the subject of Maynooth in 1845, and when the Honourable Gentleman alleged I used a statement on which he grounded his oppo sition.---(Cheers.) Mr. A. HOPE, who was almost inaudible, was understood to protest against a motion founded . on quotations from studies connected with a system of faith which had existed for centuries before that illustrious statesman Sir R. Peel proposed the endowment of Maynooth. The Hon. Member had occupied two mortal hours in re-echoing the old charges against the Catholics, and cui bona? The only result of such conduct must be to drive to desperation 6,000,000 or 7,00,000 of our fellow-subjects, already smarting under the insulting legislation of last session. Only six days ago the House heard with pleasure the Secretary for the Colonies lay down the sensible and statesmanlike dictum, that no difference should exist between the European and native in habitants of New Zealand as regarded the enjoymept of civil rights, and now it was proposed to treat the Roman Catholics of Ireland'with less liberality than was displayed towards the New Zealanders.. As far as he could tell, the College of Maynooth had answered its purpose; but, nevertheless, it was to be offered up as a sacrifice to the spirit of the Dur ham letter—to the designing speculation to which the late Prime Minister —in the most petty days of a Ministry un paralled in pettiness—had recourse with the view of prop ping his failing power.— (Hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE said the Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House bad not once touched the question be foreit. The Hon. Member for Middlesex ,liad made an amusing speech, but he showed- himself throughout to be ignorant of the whole question at issue. Amongst the quo tations which the. Hon. Gentleman made, was one which treated unfairly the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex f read rn in an i n d u not n apply e ct to e t q u u e e r R . g l h t t w Mem ber.) Perhaps the Hon. Member would improve the Iron e . b ren n tl i e h m a a t n t . h — e ( °llxt e r a a r e,t extract.—(Mr. Monsell, we believe, " it doesnot require it.") The Motion made by his HMI. Colleague was designated a cowardly Motion. He had long been proud of his colleague, but he Was never so proud of him as he was on that occa sion; for, although struck down that day, and driven over, he vet, rather than forego the opportunity 'of bringing for ward, the motion before the House, came down to the House at all hazards, and brought foeward the question relative to slaynooth, with that Ability for which -be was so re naerkable.—(Cries of ."'Hear, hear.") And this was the man that was taented with cowardice.— (Hear, hear.) The motion was met by an amendment by the honourable Member for Yuughal,' whose object was to get rid of the 'motion by a side-wind.--(Hear, hear.) It was said that Sir Robert Peel opposed a motion for inquiry into Maynooth College in 1845. But were there no reasons since 1845 that would warrant an inquiry into the system of education at Maynooth, even it there was no ground for doing so in that year? He asked the Honourable Member for Athlone if he could deny this fact? The late Mr. Shell, in speaking of the 'College of Maynooth in that House, -in reference to Den's Thed 'Ob said he was no more to be bound to defend every text in a college book than he was to defend every text in Coke or Blackstone.—(Hear, hear.) But the Right Honourable Gentleman added that if there was any doubt as regarded the teaching in blaynooth, why, let an inquiry be instituted into the matter, and every Catholic Member would support a motion to that effect.' Well, that was all the motion before the House pro posed. But Mr.. Shell was dead, and so was Dr. Murray. But they had still Dr. and the Defence Asso ciation, and they had, too, Mr. Cahill, who called on the Catholics of Ireland to bide their time in the event of foreign invasion. —(Hear, hear.) The motion of his Hon. Friend left the House no option. After the facts stated by his Hon. Friend—supported:as his motion was, by the feel ing of the country—it would be impossible to negative the proposition before the House. The :Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to contend that the system pursued at May nooth made theprieets tyrants-over the people, who were now flying to America away from the influence of the priests; and it was a fact,, that dee Cetholics, when they went to America, left the Church in which they were brought up, and passed over to Protestaritesm.—(Oh.) These facts could not be denied. The priests of Ireland, were now setting their faces against emigration. To show the desire of the priests for domination; he need only refer to the scene which took' place at a dinner given to the Hon. Member for Athlone. It was arranged that a gentleman named Roach should return thanks for the press, but the priests insisted on • Mr. Lucas being heard in reply to the toast. Now, Mr. Lucas was the editor of the Tablet, which, he hesitated not to say, was filled. with most disgraceful libels. He hoped' the House would support the motion. Mr. MONSELL would pass by the speech of the Hon. Gen tleman with but a single remark respecting. his allusion to the Rev. Mr. Meehan, He (Mr. SIonsell) would pledge him self that the words quoted by the lion. Gentleman were never used by the Rev. Mr: Meehan. Mr. NEW DEGATE, amid loud cries of " Order," said lie would establish the accuracy of the statement he had made.: Sir. MONSELL was certain the words were never used. He was surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre tary for the Home, Department should, considering his high position, have ratified by his statement the abusive harangue made against one-third of her Majesty's sobjeots by the Hon. Meinber for North Warwickshire.— (Hear, bear, from the Opposition. benches.) It was quite manifest that the object of the 'motion was not to inquire into Maynooth, but to diminish the number of Roman Catholic clergymen. But what was the conduct of every other country where there was a minority professing; a creed different from the rest of the people? •Why, in every instance that minority was such an loud tl'fu treated with con s id era ti on . 'They had schools granted • for their children, and their clergymen were supported at the expcnse of the state. Wh did not England, which made professionsnds given of v civilea by and ors liberty, for r e l d i g o the jo u s earns? WhY e after & m ling away frothe Roman Catholics of ,Ireland p a not think the Tories h wu o ra s pY e o wh o sa.B; preseenrable grant of •26,000/. a 3-ear? He did people now attempt to take thisfhr iinimderTisthe English were following the" example of in that House, thlt three that , name. It had been once stated the same ,principles whichories of the present day professed ago. But Mr. Illeaula the. Whigs did a hundred years was so coustanely, Y'adivnan reply, -remarked that " so cietyteit was now where the headeihag in knowledge that the ago, but -the hegd and the tail were been son.e generations distance." Neither Pitt, Perceval, were still at an e qu al ve hemence against the Roman cr Lord Clare, w h ose Catholic religion n o b o dy could deny, would, if living, sanction the withdrawal g rant to Maynooth. He ( Mr. Monsell) _and' of the hi m self alone—would not oppose the motion hf connectedor inquiry, he ' spoke for because he believ ed .that the more .everything w ith elaynoothwae investigated and inquired into- le more it would be seen t hat the institution was ho nestly audfia r e T e con ducted, and in ac c o rdance . with the intentions of the founders. Cie had received g letter from the Catholic Arch bishop of Armagh, expressive of his opinion that the motion should not be opposed, because everything connected with oth - was as public as possible,and the College of May o n could fear investigation. Th ditionnothing done that h th t h C • ake on t esu jet, was, a t e ommittee he would m t tdth t • • f ' a a majority o the fair one, and he rus e should be a take care that those peres who Committee,udged the House would ta „ _ _ pug= should be excluded T . P 134 tg WEDNESDAY EVENING, Mr. JAMES DUFF said he s h ou ld vo t e f o r the motion f leirli the addition of the -wo r d s propose d b y M r . Heywood. Mr. MOORE said it had beeu already called to the attest tien or the Melee that the Hen. Member for North War wickshire had placed a noti ce on t h e paper t o repeal the, e , Maynooth - grant. Howeve r ; lie now appeared to have altered that intention, coini ng , as he dal, down to that House with a speech savoitrii g of Exeter-hall, and a mo tion &savouring still more strongly of Downing-street. -- ( Hear.) What was the principle prevailing out of doors=? The prieciple was, that it - wee not expedient or wise that the people of this country should be taxed for The maintenance of a religion' whice they did"rot believe to be true. That was a broad and clear basis to go upon, a nd one in which the people of Ireland would entirely concur. '.l3ut what need was there of inquiry t o esta b lish th a t ? W as there any person who denied that th e re li g i on taug h t a t May nooth was trabelieyed in by the people of this country. It had been stated that the object in founding the College of Maynooth was to preserve the Irish clergy from the taint of Uitramontanisin . by edu ca ti ng th em i n their own country. If so, that object had wonderfully succeeded, for it would be impossible to find a body of men more ray of the Soil, or more thoroughly incorporated with the people than the Roman Catholic priests of Ireland—(lear, hear.) Six years ago the Government of this country obtained a rescript from Rome, the intention of which was to fetter .the Irish ecclesiastics in their political privileges; and the press of this country was most TJltramontarie• in its attack's on the Irish clergy because of their disobedience to the Court of Rome.—(Laughter, . and cheers from theDaposition , ) Again, it was only the other day - that a Peer of England was found clandestioely engaged in supplicating theinflu ence of the' Holy See as regarded the obstinacy of.. the Irish priesthood.-(Hear, hear.) If t h e object of that House was to denationalise or to unpopularise the Irish clergy, it had 'commenced at the wrong end. The Irish Clergy had fbr - yearn been the leaders of the people, for this reason—that the people had no other leaders. The laws of this country made it penal to teach a Roman Catholic to read or write; but the clergy, nevertheless,•came in and taught them how to live and die.—(Hear, hear.) Thel aws o f thi s co untry attempted to make Roman C a th o li cs savages and serfs; but . the clergy intervened, they . marshalled them into a nation, and taught them to be a people.—(Bear, hear. ) L e t the State change its policy-e-let it come over and l ea d the people, and the clergy would most Willingly deliver up the keys of the citadel.—(Hear, hear.) --- . . Mr. GLADSTJNE—Sir, I• propose to give 'My vote in favour of the motion introduced - by the Hon. Gentleman the. Member for North Warwickshire. . But the subject is - Of importance, and I differ so widely in the spirit of speech with which the Hsn. Gentleman has introduced and re- - commended his motion, that I - cannot suffer it ,to be put to the vote in silence.—(Elear, hear.) Sir, I' am not here to contend that Parliament is bound by any compact to the, maintenance of the Act that secures this endowment. Idq not now raise the question of what is due to those' indivi duals who are indebted to the maintenance of this college for a livelihood. I speak of the permanent maintenance of the grant ; and I disclaim all doctrines of compact. (Hear, hear:) But, Sir, I inust add, - it appears to me that unless you can show by proofs that the objects and purposes of the endow ment have failed, and that the expectations you. entertained have been frustrated--unless you can show all these, then prudence and justice • demand the maintenance of the endowment. (Heat-, hear.) - It appears to the that if failure cannot be shown—and I must say it would be a subject of very grave and serious apprehension if this failure were shown, because I coafess I am surprised at the manner and tone in which the question has been approached —that the grant ought not to .lits withdrawnaa--Hear.) It appears to me that Hon. Gentlemen seem to thitik ia a small - matter to withdraw this endowment, but they forget that its importance is not measured by the figures that designate its endowment. They forget it is of material service as regards the arrangements existing between England and Ireland.— . (Hear.) For my own part I do not, say if this endow ment can be shown to be mischievous, and the expectatioas formed have failed, that it ought - to be maintained ; but Ido venture to say that if Parliament withdraws the endowment, it must be prepared to enter into the whole Subject, and be prepared to reconstruct the ecclesiastical arrangements.— - ( Hear.) I am not speaking of - what is right or what is wrong—l am not speaking of what is to be desired or what is to be deprecated. For my own .part, I deeply deplore the series of changes into which such a course would pre cipitate us. Bat having these - anticipations of the conse quences of such a policy, if we begin in the form Which I fear the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire would propose, I thinkit - is but honest that, I sheuld state them to the House. (Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I must say it appears to me that this endowment—(lcer,. hear. - ) We have not 'yet that not a single no serious case has been made• out to prove the failure of com pleted the cycle of seven years since this endowment was ert re of theology taught at that seminary has left Maynooth who entered s la tu rg le ( n b t interested tetrheisntkedlinamth-e7rioetli=g the college no reasonable man could expect-that this endowment was to s and habits of a whole gene rationsince the enlargement of the en dowment.;. and I am sure, Si r , act by magic on the sentiment language in which pa r t s o f th e history of Ireland and circum stancesreferred to - in - and an entire peopl e . It is painful for nto to hear the in the state of I re l an d h av e been the course of this night's debate. -Nothing is more easy, God knows, than to make inflammatory.. and - - exaspera ting statements with regard to the condition of that unhappy countrye. stud - no thing is mere ea s y han to retali a t e upon those statements., and They may* draw cheers and counter-cheers, . may gratify '. ' fy feelings of peace and happi ness of the Country zealots and parti zans, b ut what d oes a ll thistOntribate to the a--(Hear, hear.) There was a time, Si r , w h en t h e preamble o f one o f the Acts p ass ed' in the Irish Parliament relating -to the militia was framed something after this manner r I do not quote - the exact words, but give the substance—ts-Whereas the•Popish inha bitants of this country have-often broken out in rebellion, and whereas it i s most probable that t h e sa id inhabitants will again and i n a f uture time- rebel; t h ere f or e be_ it en acted —." Si r , I hoped that-the-spirit these words was no longer represented within these walls. But when I heard the. H ono u ra b le - Mem b er for North War wickshire I wickshire speak of th e pr i ests of Maynoot h an d th e i r re lation with sediti on and rebellion, w hich dictated could not but feel the danger ,we, ran,. unless we put a guard upon cur selves when app roac hi ng such inflaming questions, of being hurried back into a temper .of mind which in our cooler moments we should deprecate, and of hazarding disastrous consequences to the country. which in those cooler moments we should deprecate. Sir, I think the llon. Mem ber has mentioned points, and I 'think also there are other points which might form legitimate sucjects for Parliamen tary inquiry in connection with the College of Maynooth. I frankly own, however, that I should prefer inquiry to have taken place at a somewhat I n t er - period. It appears to me that nothing can be more ent i r e l y consonant with wisdom than that you should w a it at least until th e p u pil s , in some two or three years, have successfully gone through their training, in order to attai n some practical experience of their pastoral efficiency,. and -their general conduct as 1 compared with that of the older priests reared tinder the former system. This course, I think, it would be wise to follow, for, at present the ev idence on which we could 'a ' proceed is scarcely ripe. At t h e same time, when a motion is made, we must. not only-consider 'the expediency dictated it, . but take a large view . of the public interests, and the consequences which might follow' from resisting At -7 - (Hear, hear.) I confess, therefore, that I think my. Zion. Friend, who spoke lately froniathe opposite bench, acted wisely wheo,he counselled,, considering the strong fe elin g• there was in this country in favour of in uir ' that it is for the interest of Maynooth that obstacle i s sh Y o ' uld not be thrown hi the way. If it' be true, as has been alleged; that , the establishment is extravagantly far e—if it be true (although, I believe, there is no evide g nce fit that at, Maynooth there:. are the nieans-not only of educating , Roman Catholic priests for Irelan e t , *but that there is a SUP' plus for England and the colonitis—that, I which say, ought not I to: be. Whether that be so,or not, .hovrever, the subject is one of legitimate inquiry. we. whether the 26,000/. a year da ec onomically judiciously, and effectively employed for the purposes - e are entitled to inquire eurposes whic ' h " Parliaraent intended. Nay, more; 1 - s 4 Y when allegations such as those to which the lion. Member for • North Warwickshire tmheemsbleigraitewstoulddisponsmitdiontitlvaotuldupboe:htohwant has referred with ,respect to the teaching at Maynooth. as to civil duties and obligations- of allegience, I do not think quiry', although I confess my-awn - belief that the 1100. would end where it began. Sit; the Hoaourable Member has spoken of the --report of the . Commis sioners of Education made ; - 1 1 1827, but I doubt whether he has discharged the dilly of 'wading through it. If t op point t t li . hionlqdu inquiry he had I think he would 'have found that these Commis to oaths; sioners hadand sou l doubt nded' the ve ileliths o f teaching with respect whertyher, he will attain different con clusions than those arrived at - ats quired into; but I confess when I pass from these points Co the general tone.aiid spin may be in --Y these of the speech of the Honourable Gentleinan, Lmust say it appears to ma that his main,eharge against Maynooth was, These are points which that in it are inculcated . the doctrines of the Roman Catholic faith.—( Hear . , hear.).• Sir, it Catiaraissioners. Was and is a question. or that gravest character whether Pa rliament should enter i n to relations with the Roman -Catholic Church on that subject.. But te uestion does not depend upon an examia nation of minutedetails. ,It is a question for the highest legislative wisdom and statesms et nsetp, and ought met to be referred to the inquiryatid report o f a _ _ "3( Select Committee. And here I come to the limitations le w eeLell must be imposed ' Now in the first on this inquiry. , , Gentleman who moved the inquiry, and 'Noble Lord who. • seconded him, both looked upon this inquiry simply as a means of eatablishing certain eharges. on which they had made up their minds; and, As a first step in the process, they propose a fepeal of ties Act and the withdrawal of the grant. I hope, Sir, the Hon. Gentleman - will not think' I am treat ing him with disrespect, when I say that a-Select Committee, appointed on the motion of a Hon. Gentleman who expresses . views like these, must not be considered a Select, Committee to be entrusted to his guidance. I- Presuul t t o Ba __ , Y that the subject is too large, and too important, to be referred to a Committee which should, be ender the guidance of any individual men fiber.--(Hear, hear) .Itas a great national question whether we shall or shall not withdraw the' endowment of Maynooth. • It Ta a qUestion which At all time ought to be dealt with by the ExecutiVe G'overument and I would venture to claim 'that the inquiry now Ism. poised shall likewise be conducted under the i mmediate • superintendence and responsibility of the Executive Govern ment.—( Hear, hear.) We are here, Sir, to do irapartial justice—to consider : a like England, Scotland, and Ireland. It is consistent with that justice that we amid. institute in quiry into the state of the. College of Mnoot e ay e , aud th e would not b e system of education therea, But it with justice that the conduct of such an inquiry should be entrusted to any Member of Parliament, however eminent and however great his gifts, w h ose mind is pledged to a foregone conclusion.. It is not consistent with justice that inquiry should be concluded tinder such auspices. There is another limitation which it is essential to point out, and which is founded in the nature of the subject; I conceive that the inquiry ought notto be into.: the general character of the doctrine, or, the worship and exercise of the Roman Catholic religion as practised in the College of Maynooth,—, ear, . a hear.) Such an inquiry, I contend, eught ,net to, be (• • have used ' ' ted to a Select Committee. I . ~,the ave n 4 entrusted „d. ~ l• a " and "exercise" of the %Mau e doctrine," discipline," in , the wide and coMprelt _ ensive Catholic religion, as these are . ~.,.re:we wiii . words contained in the `statttte. Nor 'are tout piece his case. ' The* noneurable - .Gentleman proposes dent in t the system of education at Maye - that we should inquire into nooth, and I fully grant that you may place a const ruct i on u pon these words "system of education," if not ruled and limited by. the sense of e Acts ° of Parliament, by the sens e o f the country, and by the precedents bearing on the case. I grant that under these w _ eds' the 'Honourable Gentl eman suc h a l a r g enesa o theological f ' ht be able to introduce might sa tisfy even all appetites io th a t investigation as would Sir this is cost tam e direction.--(Hear, hear.) But, ~ hi 18 ' 27 you lead not the ad the tepo r t o f that there has been inqittry. of Maynooth, and on the `College a Royal Commission up ; d in. the report, and . the e a._ what were the yiewa`contlate Gmunissimeers auted? • I will cumstances under which the a as large as the Honour show that the instructions Wire quite able Member himself could wish The Crown in appointing . • , the Commt sa i on , b ay i ng recited the addasss Roue() o f .t., of the Commons, and u om ih a t e d — the individuals , directed them t o inquire i n t o t h e nature and - extent of theinatructioni afforded by the Several institutions in Ireland established for th ed e ither in Whole or i n purpose of education and — mailita-- -;ne i part fr om th e publih funds. Th e y were to inquire into the 0, ff these in- by e ' nature and exte n t o f the iiistrtiOtip .fk -I s M A Y 12, 1852. i s he u c t s m . iss joßn cameut,n to report,otwithstanding that direction, wben they promi nen tl y an d, I , think, wisely stated :--" We did not consider that it fell within our provieer to exaininee t i h nto the ,P tenets of the R oman i Catholic religion, except when eared to be con nec t e d With the civil duti es an d r . Ottion;C:f lioman Catholics. either towards the State o r t owar d s t h e i r fellow-s con fess it appears to me th a t t h ese words lljicimpartiallyets I inquiry:and pre cisely state the scope of this Y - oi are entitled t o in quire into the system of education,,hte :iv anidl dutiesoft and rel a ti ons ' , Roman Catholi c teaching, FO far as it touche s , of the inmates of the c o ll ege . Beyond thatyou are not en titled to go, and into the d oma i n o f theology you is should h be precluded from entering.— (H ear , h ear .) and intention in which form er A c t s o f Parliament have spirit framed. ' But I understood the li on . M em b er for North been ath Warwickshire to contend for some thi ng lik e a visitatorial power with respect to the system of the Roman Catholic Church as taught and exercised in the College of May .nooth. . understand it to be the gist of his argument that the Committee should have power to inquire i n t o th a t sys tem. But I say, on the contrary, that if you want to fulfil and adhere to the intentions of the Legislature, you have no right to touch that, except where the system bears upon the question of civil obedience and the relations of Itiman Catholics towards their fellow-subjecte. What, however, are the provisions of the Acts which have been passed? The Act of 1795 appointed trustees with visitatorial power? The Irish Parliament again in 1803 constituted one 'body of trustees to hold, the- property, and another to exercise the visitatorial power. In the Act of 1845 that power was continued, but the superior power of Parliament was re served a .special provision being inserted enabling the Lord Lieutenant to order a special visitation. The Act of 1845 contained the reservation that the . reports of the visitors should be annually laid on the table of both Houses of Parliament. I consider that reservation to have been a distinct recognition of the principle that the intention of Parliament was to reserve its own full rind unimpaired rights over the inslitation which it had founded, and that therefore (setting apart the policy of the case), it is plain you •are exercising a power to which you are entitled in appointing a Committee.—( Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire was quite in error when he represented, or intended to represent, that Parliament had appointed no means of visiting the college with respect to Roman Catholic , discipline and instruction, and that, therefore, it was the duty. of Parliament to step in with this Select Committee. On the contrary, if he reads the Acts he cannot fail to perceive that Parliament has consti tuted a 'visitatorial power for specific purposes, and that that power is final. In the Act of 1800, and the Act of 1845, Parliament stated that any matter which regarded the exercise of the Roman Catholic religion, doctrine, and dis cipline, should not be touched by the body of visitors at large, but by Roman Catholic visitors exclusively. No thing, .I think, can be more clear than the statutes and preeedents with regard to this question—nothing can be more clear than that Parliament, when it entered into these arrangements, did not intend to place the members of- the Roman Catholic Church perpetually on tenter-hooks, and bring it into opposition with the religious sentiments of the people of this country. Parliament approached the sub ject in a statesmanlike spirit. It proceeded in the belief that the Roman Catholic religion was a system well known in history—was a system whose merits had been tested by a sufficiently long experience to enable Parliament to say aye or nay to the question whether it would have relations with it or not. Proceeding in that spirit, Parliament did not condescend to accompany the boon with insufferable renditions, and degrading and painful reservations, but it provided a security against the assaults • of theological rivalry, and respected the feelings and doctrines of those persons for whom the endow ment was intended. Parliament has left to us a clear pat tern and clear rules by which we should now direct our course.. It is in conformity with those roles that I consent to the inquiry of the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire. Bat 'I assent to it with the strongest expression of my opi• nion, that we should proceed en the principle of former years, namely, that of placing this great and important interna tional question, not in private and individual hands, but un der the control and responsibility of the Executive Govern ment. I think, is obedience to that principle, we ought to make our inquiry bond fide into the application of the Par liamentary grant for purposes which fall within the visita tion which Parliament has provided, adhering at the same time to the; erms and spirit of those important enactments which do not permit any Select Committee to depart from that spirit and those terms. -- (Cheers.) Mr. GRATTAN and Sir R. INoms rose together, and al though the latter Hon. Gentleman was strongly called for, he gave way to the Hone Member for the county of Meath. The Hon. Gentleman said he was surprised at the course taken by the Government on this question; they were wrong in their principles, their premises, and their conclusions. — (A laugh.) Parliament came to a settlement—an Irish settle ment—when they thought Ireland was going over to France, and now they thought she might go again in the same direc tion they again interposed. They knew nothing of what they were about.—(A laugh.) ' It was said that Maynooth educated such a superabundance of priests that 'it afforded a supply for the continent; whereas the fact was, that of the priests actually found necessary for the instruction of the Roman Catholic population of Ireland, no fewer than 140 had been educated on the continent. , They talked of loyalty; what did they, mean by loyalty ? What. loyalty had their ancestors shown to the unfortunate monarch James II.? As to the oath of allegiance, the best oath of allegiance they could administer ,to., the Roman Catholic clergy would be a system of good government.. . . . Sir It, a INGLIS said. that his Right Hon. Colleague, while admitting that there was no compact or contract be tween the Imperial Legislature and the College of Maynooth which at all precluded the Imperial Legislature from 'acting as it might think fit towards that college, had prevented any. They must take care what they did in the matter, because if they withdrew the grant to Maynooth, they must also re-arrange the whole ecclesiastical system in Ireland ; the proposition had been vehemently cheered by the Gentlemen sitting immediately behind his Right lion. Friend, because they foresaw in it the further confiscation of the property of that Church—,a confiscation begun some fifteen years ago, and which they would fain complete. Confiscation, he would readily believe, was not in the mind of his Right Hon. Friend, but it was prominently in the mind of his Right Hen. Friend's cheerers.—(Hear, hear.) His Right Han. Friend spoke of Maynooth as having been established by Act of Parliament, and so had the Great' Western Railway or the Eastern Counties Railway; but Maynooth was not so established till the last seven years. Afterwards he admitted the case stood upon different ground, but up to 18 55 there was no shadow of a foundation for the claim as a right ; and now it was perfectly within the discretion of Parliament to pass a Bill to repeal the Act. But that was not the object of the present motion. The Se cretary of State for the Home Department, in a speech, the language, tone, and manner of which were most temperate and judicious, had clearly shown that the existing system of visitatorial inquiry did not in the slightest degree touch the object which the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire wished to bring before the House—that it was limited almost entirely - to the external fabric of the eetablishment, and did not affect the vital. essence of the motion.--( Hear, hear.) He (Sir. R. Inglis) objected to. the present motion, however, that on the Ilth of May,.,with the prospect of a dissolution imminent in the course of the next three weeks or a month, it was not desirable to engage in such an inquiry as was con templated. . Still, when he saw that the leaders of both parties and the Hon. Member for the county of Limerick concurred in that motion, he should vote for it as a recogni tion 'of the principle of inquiry, though he believed that nothing more could result from it this Session. . Mr HUME. believed it was the sound policy of this country to conciliate Ireland, and to remove all causes of discontent, so as to make her, as she ought to be, a tower of strength to England, instead of being, as she had been, a source of weakness. The present proposition deserved a much more serious consideration than it had received. It was not a common inquiry that was proposed. We, had given to the Irish people an establishment in which they might educate priests for their own religion, but Parliament had never prescribed to them in what manner they should teach. ..—(Hear.) For some time past they had been considering how best to strengthen the dofoncea of the country, and, he asked, was it wise at such a time to press this motion, see ing that every Irish Member who had spoken regarded it as calculated to prornole increased discontent in that country ? lie !waked upon the motion as most ill-timed and most un just, as tending to persecution and not to information, and ho shOuld, therefore, vote against it.--(Hear.) Lord PALMERSTON--Sir, I rise for the purpose of stating very shortly the grounds why I constitute one of those exceptions, which my Honourable Friend by me was at a lobs to find, 'who is prepared not to agree to this motion. It is my intention, if the House divides, to vote both against the amendment and the original motion.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I think that this House is entering on a very unwise and dangerousrourse.—(Hear, hear.) I think they are entering ,on a course which, if a Committee be granted, must either end in a nullity or in very dangerous conse quences. I think that no ground was laid for the motion of ttie Honourable Member for North Warwickshire in the speech which he made. I think, of that speech, that it certainly does bring to mind the opinion entertained by some, that .the shades of departed men are wont to hover over the scenes of their earthly occupations •, and if the shade of Dr. Duigenan had been hovering over this debate, I can imagine the grim delight with which his spectre would have surveyed the scene. —(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) I thought we had got back to the times when the Catholic question was debated, and that they were nos discussing , the inci dental and single question of the endowment of , the College of Maynooth; for what was the line of argument which the lion. Member for North Warwickshire adopted? Did he go into any details of the system of education at Maynooth— of a system of education peculiar to that establishment? Did he tell us what were the doctrines inculcated by the lecturers in what way the course of education was likely to defeat the purposes for which the establishment was framed?. It he did, I must confees that those parts of his speech did not catch my attention, but I did hear long and elaborate dis sertations on the fundamental doctrines of the Catholic reli gion; I did hear quotations from writers whom the lion. Gentlenaln described as the Bacons of the Catholic Church; and I presume, therefore, that the main ground on which this inquiry is proposed by him is, that he believes, and no doute, sincerely, that, there are in the Catholic religion, or at least in Catholic authorities, tenets which he considers to be at variance with the welfare of 'a Protestant country. I do not like -to enter into that question, but I am quite sure, it that were a question fit to be _entered on, that it is not by an inquiry into the College of Maynooth that it can be pro perlyone entertained.-(Hear, hear.) It was stat ed that great evil intended to be rem edied—an evil•which isascer tained still to be prevailing — i s the p ower of llltrarnonta ne and fOreign influences and authorities in Ireland. But, shall we ,remedy that by abolishing the Colle g e of May t n h o: t_ he and I am entitled to say that the withdrawal of grant from_ the -College of Maynooth is the object of those who support this motion, because that was fairly' avowed ut the Noble Lord who seconded it.--(Hear, hear.) P by the question fairly. He said, "This is the first step; .and the object I hadin yiew is the entire withdrawal ch ate grant, aucl, the repeal of the existing law." ' the' result of that? You are to drive . us Inen'lrisCisattlbice priests to be educated' abroad; and will they from, abroad less imbued with Ultratra been educated Lane° tudoctrines and foreign influences than if the s ay d absurd to suppose at 'Maynooth? —(Cheers.) It that such a result can arise from such a proceed ing. When we were told also that some of those who are educated at Maynooth, instead of being employed in Ireland, are sent elsewhere, I -think that has been answered by my Hon. Friend the Member for leadyo, for the who showed that the total number of pries s re q uir supply of Ireland was greater than the con nuducmber educated the Irish at Maynooth.—(Hear, hear.) As to the t of bishops, with which great fault has so justly been found, I cannot see the connexion between that and the endowment of the College of Maynoo th ; but we canaot .shut our eyes to the real cause of this motion, and to the real motives by which it has been:suggested. This motion arises from the feeling out of doors which- has been unfortunately raised among the Protestant portion of the people of this country at what I shall not shrink from characterizing as the aggres sive and violent proceedings of the Church of Rome.-- (Cheers.) I do not wonder that these proceedings should have prochiced a d ee p impression of resentment— na y, o f indignation, o n the part the Protestant p ort i on o f a ttic community; but don't—because the Church of fh Romeaa a has done that of which the people of E just right to complain—don't, I say, punish the Catho lic youth of Ireland who are intended for the priest hood.—(Hear,. hear.) I contend that it would ba rot only unjust but impolitic to do so; because you would thereby inflict an injury upon yourselves; you would aggra vate the very evil, one of the circumstances connected with 1 - hfch is the cause of the auger which is at present felt in many parts %,!' the country.— (Hear, hear.) I must say that this motion appears to me a motion of vengeaoce— (Cheers).--and as a motion of vengeance I think it impolitic. (Hear, hear.) And it is not only because it is a vin dictive motion that I think it an impolitic motion, but be cause it is at variance with all those principles of sound na- _ tional policy upon which the Government and Parliament of this country has hitherto acted in regard to this question. It is upon that ground-- that broad and general ground - that I am prepared to resist the motion which is now about to be proposed to the House. My view of the question is not altered by the very proper and honourable offer which has been made by the Catholic Members of this House on the part of the Catholic priesthood of Ireland, to lay the institu tion open to the fullest and freest inquiry. No ground, in my opinion, has been laid for an inquiry at all at this parti cular moment. I don't dispute the right of the House to in quire. Any institution which is supported in any degree by public money must submit to inquiry, if sufficient ground this slaid for making the inquiry. There may be ground in th ing conten d Ivifjoicrhis, has,th atn beeno case, or not ; lam not able to speak as to that. All I ground atd in fo t r he it co h u a r s se b o e f en the la p id res i e n n a t n d y e : de bate. But, if inquiry be thought to be necessary, a Right Friend thor toyf undermin e hasGovernment pointed li out a t p h a a h t l there e o m e a x k i i s o t g s an otherit and I must say that in my humble opinion there is no ma chinery for making an inquiry ob jectionable as a Committee of o ti f te this kind so utterly (Hear, hear.) 'Why, we should iimise fi of Commons.— (Hear, upstairs, summoning before have fifteen gentlemen them the different officers of Maynooth, and examining • to the varying fancy and spirit ng of according each member of the Committee. Either the f i iff'clairY of inquiry would be conducted with all that respectful abstinence becomes an inquiry so deeply and intimately connected V whi c h the religious opinions of men diff • ermg probably in creed from their examiners, and, if so, you would not ge t a results which the promot ers o f t h e motion wish toatttan the or it would be conducted u p on a different principle, andci then the result would be that you would have theological inquiries, which must be highly offensive not only to the persons examined but to those who belonged to the same faith in Ireland; and I must say that in either case it would be most unwise and most inexpedient that the inquiry should be proceeded with.—(Hear, hear.) But the people of Ireland will not believe that the mere motive and object and effect of the motion, if carried, will be to inquire into the College of Maynooth.—(Hear, hear.) They will look upon it as the yielding of the House of Commons to what, if it were Rot disrespectful so to call the prevalence of sincere opinion, I would describe as afanatical cry.—(Hear.) But the people of Ireland are clearsighted enough to see that were-the - - House of Commons to adopt this motion they would be merely yielding to a popular fling created by the circumstances of the moment, and if theyare charitable enough not to think that the Members of this House have yielded to that cry, or that many persons who are going to vote for this motion have not been much moved thereto by considerations of the approaching election, they will be giving them greater credit than in my conscience I think they desorve.—(Cheers and laughter.) I again say that if any Members of this House shall call for a division on this motion, I shall think it my duty to vote against it, and that I earnestly hope, in spite of the handsome offer on the part of the Catholic Members to submit the institution to the fullest inquiry, the House will either resist the motion altogether, or, if an inquiry be thought expedient, that that inquiry will be conducted by the Commissioners appointed by Government, because it is obvious that a subject of such a delicate nature, involving questions so deeply affecting the interests of a large portion of the community, is not a sub ject suited to the rough handling of the Members of a Select Committe of this House.--(Cheers.) Mr. Sergeant MURPHY moved the adjournment of the debate. The CH INCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had watched the debate with great attention, and it seemed to him that it had one remarkable characteristic, and that was that almost every speaker had been of the same opinion, and, therefore, it seemed to him extremely advisable to conclude the debate that night, if possible.—(Hear, , hear and cries of "Adjourn I") Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL had some strong objections to urge against the motion, and hoped the debate would be ad journed to afford him the opportunity of doing so.—(hear.) Mr. REYNOLDS said he was anxious, on a great and important question like that, to hear from the :Chief Se cretary, for Ireland, or in his absence the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Irish Attorney-th - ineral, some explanation of the speech which had that night been delivered by the Secretary of State for the Home Department. He wished to know whether or not the opinions of, the organ of the Irish Government in that House harmonised with the " No- Popery" speech of the Home Secretary, because, after having listened to that speech with attention and pain, he could not help coinciding with the Noble Lord (Palmerston) in thinking that the spirit of ancient and the worst times of bigotry and intolerance had been revived in this discussion. In conclusion, Mr. Reynolds said he should support the ad journment of the debate, and challenged the Hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Mr. Spooner) to fix an early day for resuming it. Mr. DRUAIMOND also supported the adjournment of the debate. He was one of the few persons in that House who had served an apprenticeship to the dulness and the endu rance of Dr. Duigenan ; but when this debate should be re sumed he would prove that a bigotry more fierce than Dr. Duigenan's was now in full operation in Ireland—the fiercest that ever Hildebrand delighted in, or the blackest times of Popery had ever put in action.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. KEOGII, after some observations in favour of the adjournuient of the debate, said that, as he had understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in what had fallen from him at an earlier period of the evening, intended to repudiate the sentiments which his lion. Friend (Mr. Osborne) had attributed to him, in order that there might be no mistake on the subject, he would read to the House the passage in the Right lion. Gentleman's speech to which his Hon. Friend alluded. The Right Hon. Gentleman was speaking on the case of Ireland, upon a motion which was brought forward by the Noble Lord the Member for London (LordJ. Russell). The Right Hon. Gentleman stated that they had heard great deal of Catholic associations, and anti-corn-law leagues, and political unions; but those things were the consequecce ' of the people putting the government of the country into the hands of those who did not know how to wield it; and then, alluding to the Catholic question, observed—one said it was a physical question, and another that it was spiritual. Now it was the absence of an aristocracy, and then the absence of railroads—it was the Pone one day, the potatoes the next. But they had a starving population—an absentee aristocracy; and what would the stern supporters of the Establishment say, when the Right Hon. Gentleman added, an alien church, in addition to the weakest of execu ives in the world ? Any one reading of a country in that position, ob served the Right Hon. Gentleman, would say at o nce that the remedy was revolution. But Ireland, he said, could not have a 'revolution, .and why ? Because it was connected with another and a more powerful country—her connexion with England prevented revolution; and as revolution was the only remedy, England Was placed in the odious posi tion of being the cause of all that misery. What, then, he asked, was the duty of an English Minister? The Right Hon. Gentleman was then ebgaged in the duty of hunting down the man who was then a great English Minister (Opposition cheers)—and was talking of Parliamentary middle-men, who bamboozled one party and plundered the , other, and called upon the House to put an end to Parlia mentary hypocrisy. Now, if the House still maintained the inclination to put an end to a Parliamentary hypocrisy, they would permit him (Mr. Keogh) to put an end to the repre sentation that the Hon. and Gallant blembbr had misrepre sented the Right Hon. Gentleman. But he would proceed— " What was the duty of an English Minister? To effect by his policy all those changes which revolution would effect by force."—(['Tear, hear.) The debate was then adjourned till Wednesday, the 19th of May. The Property and Income-tax Bill was further considered in Committee, and ordered to be read a third time on Friday. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'clock. COURT CIIICULAft. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by Lord Charles Fitzroy, visited bar Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge, yesterday after noun, at her residence in St. James's Palace. - Ills Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by the Marquis of Abercorn, Viscount Mandeville, Lieutenan t- Colonel Francis Seymour, and Lieutenant-Colonel the Hon. Alexander Gordon, loft Buckingham Pa lace at tea minutes before one o'clock, yesterday afternoon, for the purpose klf laying the fotndationione of the Hew buildings in Victoria-street, of the West minster Training Institution of the National Society. His Royal Highness returned t o Buckingham Palace at twenty minutes before two o'clock. Their Royal Highnesses Prince Princesses Helena and Lou isa, took a driveyesterday sterda y Arthur, and the m orning, in an open carriage and four . Their Royal Hianeases the Prince of Wales, the Princess Royal, and the other members of the Royal family took their usual exercise yesterday, in the garden of Buckingham Palace. His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horse hack yesterday, attended by Lieut.-Colonel H on . A. Seymour, Gordon. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert, Italian Opera with the Prince of Wales and Prince Alfred, attended by Viscountess Jocelyn, the Honourable Mary Lord Polwarth, Lord Charles Fitzroy, and Lieut.-Colonel F l in en n t, ialtended Hon. A. Goesal Highness n otuhree Duchess e l s t s u y o a f l her with their prence last evening. Majesty's Theatre Her Roy by Lady Anna Maria Dawson, Lady Sir William or Gibson Craig, with hot presence last evening. and Sir George Loupes, honoured y ovvard, r. Cowan, KP., the Exchequer A deputation, headed by P" and M had as aMira.teE dward interview ic E i t l h li c thee, ChancellorM. yesterday, at his official residence in D Lord Lyttleton had ow ning - street. an interview • Derby yesterday, at hi s ..- . with the Earl of s official resi dence s treet. in Downing. _ _ The Cambridge University Commission had a meet l og yesterday at the official residence of the First Lord of the Treasury in Downing -street. Present —the Bishop of Chester, the Deau of Ely, Professor Sedgwick, and the Rev. W. EL Bateson (Secretary). Lieutenant-Colonel Munday had an interview with Sir John Pakington yesterday at the Colonial•office. A deputation, headed by Mr. Miles, M.P., and Mr. Cardwell, M.P., hud an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence in Downing -street. DESTRUCTIO N OF THE CRYSTA L PALA CE .--I n Con sequence of many thousands of persons in the United King dom having been unable to obtain a copy of the Great Exhibition Chart, printed in colours, and presented by the proprieto rs o f the Weekly Di spatch, to their subscribers and the public, in the months of January and February last, a re-issue has been determined upon, to take place on sunds next, May 16th. The Chart, which has undergon persons revision, shows b 4 y simple diagrams the number of taken that visited the Exhibition daily, the amount of money y con at the various entrances, the quantity of refreshmentsnaccount surn2d ; the names of the Royal Cimmissioners; . a n feet. In of the origin of the Palace and its dimensions I ossess this order that every individual' in the country nutY.P ults, to mark e a careful statistical reflex of curious and interesting re a s s a meme nto the demolition of the building, and to '!. of its existence, day stated. subscriber and purchaser of the Dispatch on every Saturday the Chart will be deliv se e r r v e n d The Dispatch is pub!ished at four o'clock. u s leaving London, every morning, in time for the first railway trams should be given to and for the morning mails. Early orders r to Mr. R. J. Wood, t g b r e atiato all newsvenders in town or country, agents will have a copy of No. 139, Fleet-street. The news _ l6th. the Chart With e ver y Di s patch - of maY iTO THE SECRETARY OF nit BRADrORD 13 VI REFORM ASSOCIATION. 7 1 if ' . e (CONTINUED O N MONDAYS AND WEDNESDAYS.) dn , --, ------ A.-, Sir,—On Menday the 10th, the Chancellor of .th,feler e stS:;,_'` : e 1 Exchequer produced his plan for the Assignment 461--e . e! C:::A7*°'• . '1- i - 7 4 Tp V A the Seats forfeiteci by the disfranchisement of St. e. 4.. e5e , 4" ban's and Sudbury; a subject on which public cusioeiVee : .s"'''',,,, ---: ?-- ) had been considerably raised, It is impossible to deny I.;_ j =, c,lf",';'7-\ that his elan se as as fair, open, honest, undisguised, irre- ' .1.0 . ;. - t 7 ' 4t : 5 preadhableii - preiliosallo add four Members to the Con -11....atra ,ii,l4. .7. servativo -side of the House, as if it had been suggested to give four new Members to the county of Buckingham. The proposal was, to divide your West Riding into two, taking the North Midland Railway for the line of demarcation, giving two new Members to the North- Eastern or 2er - twinned - division, and leaving you of the South-Western as yea are. Credit was taken for not allowing Leeds to corrupt the agricultural division, state ment being made that it was proposed to make a hump in the divisional line for the purpose of keeping Leeds on the other side. Farther, a division of the same nature was td La perpetrated on the South division of Lancashire, with the palpable effect of fixing the capitul of the new division at Liverpool, where Conservative princiVes are considered to be strong. The bait thrown out in this to the Liberals,—who as children of light, !eel not expected to be always a match for the children of this world,—was " You cannot ob jea to an arrangement that gives more Members to the same population;" in fact, the Unandos Clause over again. And it was amusing to see, how many appeared disposed to rise at this fly. The Member for the University of Oxford (Mr. glad stcue) replied to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He ably overturnel the preliminaries of the official speaker, who had laid down with considerable pomp of language, that though there was nothing magical or cabalistic in the precise number of 658 Members of the House of Commons, there was an imperious necessity that this mysterioustact heh ad argued, number with should i t all be precisely preserved. In the powers at his com mend, that b e f ore the Government could go to tho pro mised appeal to the people, it was necessary that the House should be filled up to the mysterious number with four Conservative Members. After this reply, the House went to a division by common consent on the motion of Mr. Gladstone to pass to the other Orders of the Day; which was carried against th e Ch ancellor of Exchequer by 234 votes to 148. An unsuccessful attempt was made on the Ministerial division;"vote by r representing senti ng argument i t side of the House, to diminish the importance of this being s ing what was called " a snap a number of Members having man with the taking place earlier than was expected, g one founded to di o n n e. the B d u i division s this n and consequently manifestly depended on the assumption , go to dine. Anythat only Tortes slightest . knowledge on• such subjects must know, that unless fifty Members pr oved nobetslhe final ealo_ that Liberals do not dine, thiefnumber oltf can on each side must approached to the proportionner; numbers; and consequently dine, it is as certain as that a man firing into a flock en o t f - sparrows would kill a nearly equal number of cocks and hens it the numbers were equal to b eg i n with, that thirt y out of the fifty would be Liberals, a n d therefore, if no body had gone to dine, the majority ag a i ns t the Minis ters would have been ten more than it it was. When a party to any contest makes an effort which so palpa bly fails, it is within the limits of the most temperate and justifiable opposition to hold it up to public con sideration as a striking evidence of weakness, and carry to the utmost the advantages derivable from the fact. Hero then is the Tory Ministry in a minority of eight times (which but for dining out would have been nine times) as many as induced their predecessors to throw up the Government. It is to be feared the superiority alluded to as iu possession of the children of this world, will prevent its having anything like similar conse quences now. An interesting question for our side, is to know what could have induced the Tory Ministry to put themselves into this minority. Supposing that we had been called to hold their cards, it is clear our aim must have been, to propose the maximum of advantage we were sure of earrping, but first and above all things to propose nothing we should fail in. Why did the Con servative Ministry fall into this huge mistake? Or eau it, as some suggested, have been intended, and is there anything behind? The probability appears to be, that there is not, and that it is simply the result of what was noted to you in a preceding letter, under the phrase of the squadron-officer leiing ridden over by his men be hind. Their squadron, it appears then, is a snob, not under the direction of the ostensible leader, and conse quently in only a slight degreejunder any direction at all. All of which, let you and me, who ride in the opposite ranks, treasure up for use as opportunity may arise. eet7* The Militia Bill was then proceeded with in Com mittee. After stout resistance, Clauses 7 and 8 were carried by majorities of 169 to 82, and ,216 to 99. Clause 8 is for fixing the Quota of counties by Order in Council. The basis of this fixing appears to be unne cessarily circuitous Where can be the necessity for in stituting a cumbersome preliminary inquiry into the num ber of serviceable men in the respective counties, when the object might be obtained with quite sufficient accu racy by dividing according to the population? Suppose, for instance, it is decided that 80,000 men are to be levied in England, with a population of sixteen millions. Was it necessary to do more than direct each county to famish one militiaman for every two hundred of po pulation ? But there is a further question, of considerable im portv.lice. Seeing it is declared to b© desirable to raise the men -by voluntary enlistment, why may not us many men be so raised as will enlist without distinction of counties, and the counties in the last resort be charged with raising the deficiency by ballot by the rule men tioned above? On what principle is it to be said, if Lincolashiremen are eager to enlist and Yorkshiremeu arc not, that the men shall not be taken, by voluntary enlistment in Lincolnshire, but shall be taken by forced conl,criptiou in Yorkshir:=? If you and I were allowed to settle this routs, 1 think vie could contrive to mend it. I will note, that the proposal uf the Chancellor of the Exchequ"r f)r . making the North Midland Hai!- way the line of demarcation between the intended divi sions, is not carded to the clearness which would pro bably have been shown if the plan had been of longer life. The North Midland Railway, to my appre hension, stops at Normanton. But from the mention made of Leeds as near the boundary, there seems no doubt that the boundary intended in that part of the line was what you call the Leeds and Bradford Rail- Si sty, and that if the agriculturists were to be "shoulder,' you were to have been " ribs." When you see the por trait of the unsuspecting animal that is divided into joints for the instruction of inexperienced carvers, it may make you think of the escape you have had in the West Riding. Oa Tuesday , the Maynooth question, after a long debate, was adjourned till the l9th. I am, Sir, yours very sincerely, AN OLD REFORMER. • Blackheath, May 12,1852. pi-,BOOK-KEEPING FOR e x r p e r e is s sl asy for set the A SY STEM - N I NG TRADE. By Joseph THE TAN b Sawyer, publish er . benefit book t.., is onnected with the tanni trade, f i t of those -e ,-, ct f o r whic h , " 8 J a h va has m e r e . been compiled wyer t, t h e dsystem of book-keeping, althou h g lr third or fourth among the manufactures of i t ranks " To give some idea of the extent to Great Britain. 4 . • h the leather trade is carried on in this country, which Sir F. M. Eden, in his work on insurance, estimated su ffi c iently , define the value of the different articles manufactured of leather, in 1803, at 12,000,000/. Th e w or k i s di v id e d, into two parts. In Part I. will be found instruc tions for the preliminary arrangement of books and detailed information for those o are not wh pracly acquainted w ith book-keeping, followed by general rules for balancing, &c. Part 11. is devoted to tbe consideration of the difficulties of keeping clear and . concise accounts in the tanning trade, and ex plai ning the m o&s the principle which the author considers _ ;Li__ convenient and advantageous. T very carefully arranged, and we consider that h expresses Sawyer has fulfilled the desire w hich c y of arrange in his preface, viz., "By s implicity of all e ment and illustration, and by the exclusion to produce traneous matter and useless technicalities,.. . trade, the prin. The whole 7. a set of books relating to the tanwegn to persons ciple of which must be obvious even un acquainted with book-keeping:" NEW ASYLUM FOR FATOBBLESS CHILDRINe— Yesterday the eighth anniversary of this asylum, at Stain ford-bill, was celebrated at the London Tavern by a festival, at which Mr. Peto, M.P., preside d. About eighty friends and supporters of the institution dined together. It is a dis tinctive feature of this charity that it imposes no restrictions with respect to the ages of those whom it is intended to be nefit, but renders aid to th e destitute orphan as earl y and as long as he may need help. The " New Asylum" was formed in 1841, in consequence of differences as regards religious teaching which had arisen in the original orphan asylum, founded in 1827. The Chairman stated that the Prince of Wales was a contributor of 250 guineas. The Hon. Chair man advocated the claims of the charity very successfully , and stated that there were now upwards of one hundred c onn e ct d t h e a sylum, and that the high character of those connected with its management was a guarantee for their excellent training. and the care bestowed upon them. It was irk contemplation to erect a new building more cam. mensurate with the d al t tms on the benevolence of the funds of the charity, an ere was already a fund amounting to 2,400/. towards this desirable object. .After the dinner the children belonging to the asylum, w ho presented a healthy and preposseasingappearance, walked in procession ro und the roo m, and after singing a hymn retired. The health of the was proposed by Mr. Alderman Wire, who referred 'arlittillilCl rberality which has characterised his career, both as k publictochsitihrenil man and in private life. This toast was very c(r. arc good effects g t o 9t received, of ter which a list of sabsc ,s r s i t p ot t pom io tai n hlel s i:s amountin ete: to 952 L was read by the bon, secretary, the Rev. Mr. Avelir g, including a donation cf 250 guineas from the chairman, and yshortness of brea th , one of, a hundred guineas from Baron Lionel Rothschild, treasurer of the institution. n ! Iris have had tightness Short nesslg a h E n t A no c fe u p : B Y s e cured ne ß b a t y t T ibl i t e. s hi s e : i nt i E m o Naf desireerr a h j , Complaint accompaniedt bear i-i ex °aerariebiesioWitsumhielatibeo:s these ea w r i s th old a , without inconvenience, of Holloway's Pills. For many years I w as goodthatye t though parneven effe c tt sot ed farthm f rom a e atd nanowe walkin g advanced a ilne ye ant I feel quite relieved of the stomach proprietors of the Lynn, Advertiser, so , will confirm this state mHee,altr.y_CsoneidNboyrthalsltrDeartu,gaLisytnan.a Messrs. icomp r l r aint. (Signed) Establishment, 244, Strand, ) ant at Prsisuor Holloway's Dr. Maclure, formerly head Souls and St. Maryleb King's College, Londonnh District School, in union with Regius Professor of as been appointed by the Crow* dem. humanity in Dilarischal :College, Aber Londo n Threw and son,