The Sun. — London, England, 1823-02-21 00:00:00

.PARLI A MENT, HOUSE OF , . I,oltDS,.lieu. 'trite Earl of DARNLEY presented a .Pctition from Black. born, 4*Bit:lSt the Insolverd Debtors's , Azt. The Earl of 'SRA F.T ES'BURY presented a . similar Petition tr o m Reverlo.—Laid on the table. Mr. PAYSE.preientectr - the 'Repottor:the Commissioners of the Thames Navigation. k °REIGN - RD - LA/MOWS. The Marquis of LA NSDOWN, atiting a Noble . . Earl in his plke, mentioned his 'intention to. pit questions to-Morrow, respecting Foreign Relations. 'The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, it would be inconve-', Meat to attend to the intimation of the Noble Marquis Morrow. The. Marquis of LANSDOWN then fixed hie inquiry for Nionday ; anti, on the motion of the Earl of fLivEnvocir. , ,ithe House Adjourned to Monday. 110 USE •OF GO'NIIIO.NS. • :+4,t. DnowN, Warden of the Fleet Prison, presented an account of the number of Debtors confined within that Prison. Several other accounts were presented from the different Public Offices. They, witli the above, were ordered to lie on the table. INSOLVENT ACT. Lord EASTNOR . presented petitions front Worcestershire iind the City of Hereford against the insolvent Debtors' Act. Petitions to the same effect were presented from the following places by the following Hon. Members r—FrOrn Portsmouth, by Lord Hotharn; from Beverley, by Mr. Lane Fox ; front Lancaster, by Lord Stanley ; from .11initlexstield, by Lord Milton; from Ely, by Lord Charles Manners; from Abliton, by Lord Duncannon from Knaresburgh, by Mr. Tierney ; from Carmarthen, by Air. Jones. They were all ordzred to , lie on the table. 11.11. pmas presented a petition from the Dean and Chapter of Bristol against the Marriage Ace—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Alder man WOOD moved fora Return of the Prisoners discharged from the several London Prisons for Debt within the last four years..—Ordered. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON presented a petition from certain Attornies of-Tipperary against the Coroner's Bill...—Ordered to lie on the table. • Mr. BENETT presented two petitions from 'Wiltshire against the 'rurnike Act passed last Session.—Ordered.to lie on the table. - AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. ~ •14.tril CHARLES MANNERS presented a Petition from certain Landholders of Cambridge, complaining of 'Agricul. tural Distrest—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. MAXWELL presented a petition from Etenfrew, corn. plashing of Agricultural Distress. Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE supported the petition. 17 .11 e though assistance ought to be demanded from his Mil. jesty's Government. The Honourable Baronet spoke at come length against the operation of our metores on the currency ; and concluded by declaring his conviction that nothing but an alteration of those measures would save the agricultural interest front ruin. Lord A. HAMILTON said . he could speak, front his own knowledge, to the distress of the petitioners. tle was surprised that the Members connected with Agriculture remitted - silent tater the declaration made by Government, that nothing would beproposed for their relief. The petition was then ordered to lie on the table. PUBLIC RUMOURS. Mr. BROUGHAM, seeing one of the Lords of the Ad miralty in his place, begged to put a question to him respecting an alarming report which had been extensively circulated in this and a neighbouring country, to the capital of which it had aLio reached. The report he alluded to was that a large fleet had sailed from Brest, with sealed orders. Ile should be glad • to hear a contradiction of the report ; and trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite would afford the House some in formation on the subject. Sir FOUL} li CLERK assured the House that no such in. formation had been received by the Admiralty. 111 r. BROUGHAM was happy to hear this assurance. Tire Report was alarming, notfrorn any consequence which might be apprehended as affecting this country, but only as it might tend to bring into jeopardy the peace of Europe. Lord:A.. lIAMILTOI , . , Isaid it was his intention to submit to the ilottseet motion connected with the recent imprnionmen of Mr. Eawring, in France. Ile begged to ask the Right lion decretary oppueite whether there was any thing in the present relations between this county and Trance which would render Ittib,iectioneble to bring fortvierd such a motion at the present • SMreklecretary CANNING said, that the discretion Upon all . other parts of the subject being solely with the Noble Lotd, he be,gged to say, that he saw nothing at the present moment in the relatilm between France and England Which could render Koch a tnetion objectionable as to time. PA RLIAMENTARY REFORM Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that had he not been pre vioutly apprized that the motion he should have the honour of submitting to the House would be opposed, he should have trimten it 30 much as a matter of coarse as nut to trouble them with a single retuark,upon the subject. Ile proposed to move for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the right es now axe:vend, of voting for the Elections of Members to serve ;n Parliament Gar Clues and Boroughs, and the numbers of those, in each' City and Town, who exercised that right. Un demanding that lite motion would be opposed, he Should pro ceed to state the grounds and the precedents upon which he bed made the application. He had always understood that tau production of papers, or - the affording of information Itkely to elucidate or to bear upon .the subject of a motion tender notice, Will never refused or , withheld ; and latterly, he' admitted, that these facilities were readily yielded by tire, other sole of the House, upon every question within the gope of discussion. He could •at once refer the House to a case directly in point. It was in' that of motion made b e r his Noble Friend 'andel. him (Lord A. Hamilton), woo had taken so laudable, but so unsuccessful a part in the dleetiesions on, the &inch Representation. The motien to *lsiah lie referred, was Wade illt Session, .'for a list of the Freeholders qualified to vote on the Election of Aleinhers for :;eotch Counties„ That motion was not OppC,A4d ; and, by the reara tto it, there appeared about 70 or HU constituents on an ererage for sash County Member of Scotland. There was en other motion made so late as last night by hire Noble Friend, for a return of the Burghs in which the election was regulated by the TOWll,Council, with a: list of the numbers end goatlike tient of each Town Council. The return to this motion would diseleee. the whole history of Elections for 4 8..etelt Burglie, and Stele motien Was not oppoeed. Ha should flinch wish to be informed why he was to be treated with leis favour than his Noble Friend ; or way a motion not dietingdieliable In principle Iron) his should be thought objectionahree merely because it cote from 'him. Another e earecident to Y, hichlie would refer the House ' it w.s to be found in the case of a Committee.ap ,pointed by the House to search the Lords' Journal*, for all in thrmation touching the dignity yr ,office of a Feer of the ream. Not only was the motion fur this Committee unop „posed by the Howie,. but the Lords themselves offered no ob , onion to the examination ofe their Jciunals on that subject, so . little were they alarmed at ara,inquiry iitte their dignity.--.A Repilet hid been made by that Committee under the advice of the present Lord ltedeedale reenitekehle , for ite lengthein duetly,,and rowlock, rather dien ; itsKenney. The epiennt . merit of the Committee, .however,' was -still a precedent in ,point. A Committee had alio been appointed on the motion of this lion. Friend, the Member for Shrewsbury, for ascer taining what Members . of that douse held places under, or de rived emolument froth the Crown t and the motion resit had scan reads by the, reconimendation of the Chair. The Cont . Mittee for which he :limpid move, would have the meow; of ae certainingefroot tile different returning, officers, all the particu lati.required ; and eithough there would, doubtlesi, lie great diffieuity in getting e, return perfectly accurate, the Com osWeie cotld gene its object; for a general Return made with tolerable accuracy would be sufficient, The House would remember,' that ,when the comtnittee of Education were app rusted, they wrote 'for information to the Cler gymen oi every perish in the kingdom ; that they obtained nienr aoswere, sonic eatistactory anti oters not; that truism tOrritl they obtained no return at all ; but still they were entitled, by the irifilrmation they actually' did obtained to einupile it most valuable document, commonly =lied the Education Digest. The information which be should want would be very material; and he bad no doubt it Might be gained' by the gm ae meson and itithe same matiner. He had beard, - however, that what lie now asked would not be granted :by the opposers of Parliamentary Reform. He thought thoee opposers always took higher ground. He thought they had always said, " eve adimi your facts, but we contend the Howie in its present state works well." 'Would they now, at time when all public' Institutions And Constitutions an general were so minutely scrutinized, would they conceal from the public whowore their constituents :' Tt 'refuse this Motion • w ould he to abandon the ground they had previously taken. Not ;Ay would their opposition be an :uhantitmment of titat mond, but it v l ° l ." little avail thern ; for the returns foe which ho celled were already before the world though hot in Ito corral. a form as he wisletel They were Stated in hooke extensively lreulated, and generally relied upon. "Thest . ficti were, Iniown d others were divulged nut Teter hurtful then the former he reputation of the House. It was well known, for io- ;:ittenOt, thatitti •Tecenflorough • meeting in" Cornwitll, a letter I had been read to the. Corporation, from a Noble *Peer, then the pattern Of the borough, declining to Ire such patron any longed ; and report added, that he had Nodal:reel, becalm he wriest) ditigusted at the numerous . applications Which had been Made for his patronage by the voters of the borough. When this letter had been read to the Corporation, one of its members, .a 'Member, too, of that House, e -(11 car, hear !)—rose, and pro? posed that it should be offered to another Noble Lord, it Mem ber also of the Upper House ;—(11 ear, hear, bear !)-.-and with "mind to this offer, it was tq...be eabservetl, that the last-neen. tinned Noble Lord, had no property. or connection within 10 0' .mileaof the borough ; so that the argument about the fair in abode of property and connection, fell to the grotin4, and there was no possible doubt, that the transfer of patronage was to be fur a plain, substantial, valuable consideration. All this was notorious ; and ite notoriety could,nat but confirm the suspicions'of the people, respecting the coiretitation of that House. lie feared that what was proposed by One side of the House, was generally opposed by the other. But yet, he sub mitted to the House, that the information he sought was neces sary, in order that they mightecome to a fair cousideration of the queetion of Reform. Whetever might be the opposition made to his motion, or what its result, lie was convinced he should have the vote of every unprejudiced man, and thateif the motion were to be rejected, the country would be itaisfied that the House was afraid to have its own constitution known to the public. The Noble Lord concluded by moving, " That a 'Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the right of voting on the Election of Members to serve in Parliament for Cities and Boroughs, and the number of persons exercising that right." Mr. Secretary CANNING said; he was sure the Noble Lord would admit that he (Mr. Canning), had not only informed him that he should oppose the intitiora e but that he-had also stated the grounds of his intended oppolitione He should not enter into the larger question' which was connected with this motion, but should confine himself to the merits of the spe cific motion itself. He knew, however; it would be felt by the public, and this must be acknowledged by the Noble Lord, thet if this Motion were carried, it would be thought that the general question of Reform hail made considerab .e progress, and that the opposition hitherto made to it had in . a great mea. sure been withdrawn. He believed that in one lie was sure that in the other of these supp ositions, they would be mistaken. He should, however, guard himself against drawing any inference as to the possible consequences of the motion ; and, its he before observed, should meet it on its own grounds. So meeting it be had not the least hesitation to say that the motion involved the most arbitrary and eyrannical principles. Many of the points to which the examination of thin proposed Committee would be directed, had already been ascertained and decided by the House. The right ot voting even Contested Elections stood recorded upon the ,Journals. As to these, therefore, the pro posed Inquiry was unnecessary, beetnise the Journals them.. selves tould be referred to at once. But as to those Boroughs, the right of which was not so ascertained, many of them were held by Charter ; and were these Charters to be exposed to ex. amination, and consequently, perhaps, to forfeiture ? Such a proposition had never, he believed, been made in that House since the reign of James the Second. 4t would be as great a stretch of power in the blouse to call for such an examination as it would be in them to call for an examination of the title deede of estates._(Cheers from the Opposition, echoed by the Minasterial Benches.) - Many private rights were founded upon Charters; advowsons, for instance, and many othere. Yet would the House call for the examination of 'these Charters of unoflbnding Corporations, to enable, 'perhaps, some attorney, I who bad no practice, but much spirit of inquiry, to affect the I rights of individuals under them ? • Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, his motion did not propose the examination of Charters. Mr. Secretary CAN NINO said it certainly was so stated in the notice of motion giVen by the Noble Lord.—(-The Right Hon. Secretary here referred to the notice which mentioned " Charters.")—He would then take it as the Noble Lord's !no tion now stood. Ile did not propose the examinationlof Char, tars. Then how was the object of the motion to be obtained l_ (Heer, hear , hear!)— True It was, that the Noble Lord had admitted he did not expect perfect accuracy ; but how was any information to be obtained beyond that populat floating know. ledge to which the Noble Lord had alluded? He (Mr. C.) contended that no more accurate information could be ob tained wit s hout the examination of Charters t and the sort of popular knowledge in question was never contested by the op posers of Parliamentary. Reform. If it had ever been disputed, then, indeed, the Noble laird would have a right to call for ac. mate information. This species of knowledge was never, to his recollection, denied in the course of the many debates which had taken place on this subject long before the Noble Lord had taken it under his protection. He (Mr. C.) never remembered the fact, that Boroughs, containing very few voters sent Mem bers to Parliament to have been denied In the speech of any one Member who opposed Parliamentary Reform. For his own part he had always set out in his argument, upon the very ad. mission of this fact. fie always, for instance ' conceded the feet, that two voters only sent Members for Old Sarum. No point was ever made upon a supposed denial of this, or sash a fact. No obstacle was thrown in its way. His opposition to Perlis mentary Reform was, that the House ot Commons, with all these acknowledged imperfections, was adequate to the performance of all its constitutional 'duties ; and that lie, and those who thought with him, dreaded change more than they desired improvement. He should not now go into the argument, whether he was right or wrong. All that he said was, that there never had been any disposition to dispute the assertion upon which the necessity of a .Reform in Parliament was advocated. In short, all was admitted in the way of fact, which the Noble .Lord desired, fur the benefit of his argument. And, after all, he observed the motion of the Noble Lord was imperfect ; forlie did not call for the number of voters in the , different .counties. This could be ascertained without much difficulty e particularly Judie Irish counties, to all of which the Registry Laws applied. But with respect to the number of voters in cities and boroughs, he mould ask the Noble Lord by what smile the Noble Lordevould proceed: If he intended to go by the elections whiclehad taken place last Session ? If he did, the return as to all the places at which there had been no contest must be nil. And even in those at which there had been con tests, the return would be 'inaccurate, unless the polling had proceeded to .the exhaustion of all the voters. in Liverpool, for example,. the electors, at the election before last, were polled to a considerable number, but at the last, election he believed not more than two hundred had been polled. With this doubt, therefore, and this uncertainty, a popular estimate would be quite sufficient for a popular argument. That esti. nutte was conceded to the Noble .Lord aby his opponents, so that, even in his own view, the returns he wanted, were quite unnecessary. The object of some wase to cut oft' these .pec. cant parts of our Constitution ; but , that of the Noble Lord was to retain them, notwithstanding their degradation. No man ever had been, or ever would be so absurd, as to foUnd his case upon an argument in favour of e close Loroughs. It was admitted that they .were small, ,and limited, .both as re garded' the functions they were destined to perform, and the share they had in representation. All this was admitted, and whatever force the admission could give to the Noble Lord's argument, he had no wish to deprive hint of. He did not ' think he would gain any thing trout it; but bethought great prejudice would be arrayed aguitist it, were the House to sanc tion such a cause. When first the Noble Lord gave notice of his motion, he had applied himself to consider how far it would be practicable to procure the information he desired, without the instrumentality of the evil% he had pointed out. But he had failed in his endeavour to devise the means, •To a Committee % therefore, for such purposes,, he'objected. First, far the rea souhe. h ad mentioned, that tile effect of it must be to bring the I Charters of the Boroaghs into question before suclea tribunal al, and next, bemuse he was convinced it Would bring on the goes. lion as to that title,,coneiderehly more than the Noble Lord, in his candour, had assured them he anticipated, hut ,not more than his judgment inueeinform him it would te pushed. He wished to avoid the prejudice which must he raised on the one hand, and on thenther he could see no poseible way of arriving rot the contplcte information desired by the Noble Lord. His other reason was, that whatever . benefit the Noble Lord could derive from the full completion of his hopes from the motion, was already in his possession, as far as admission or concession could give It to him. In declining to give his support to the Noble Lord's motion, ,he assurred him Ito tliii it without the smallest feeling of hostility, and without any desire to throw any impediment in the way of the motion he warp abtiut to bring forward oii the main - question.- Ile would be ready to meet it, when it clime, with perfect candour. It touched, be apprehended, no feeling or passion that could find a place in that House. At least so he felt it. WI would meet it with temper ; but for the present Ire must oppose the motion be fore the House, at being, for the Noble Lord's purposes, unne. cessary,—(llear, hear fi 6 Mr. ABE RCROM assured the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Cenning), that after listening with great atten tion to what lie had said, be could discover only two grounds upon which he opposed the motion of hie Noble Friend ; one of which existed only in the imagination of the Right lion. 'Gentleman, and the other was founded only upon an exalt. geration, or, he should rather say, an unintentional misrepre. eatitation of his Noble Friend. In proceeding to examine them, he would put entirely out of the question the Right Hon. Oen tlemen'e views of what was or was not for the good of his Noble Friend. Hie Noble Friend desired certain mformation, fur which he moved ; and with all deference, he must beg leave to tiny, that his Noble Friend was most likely to be the beat judge of how far that iritarmation would' serve hint or not. Ile sought it for hi* own purposes, and no doubt would know how to deal with it. The Right Henourable Gentleman supposed that the whole world was ripe and ready in the event of the motion being carried, and time inquiry institnted to expect a sweeping Reform. Then, if so slight a circumstance were • . . Capable of governing the opinion upon this subject,. the public mind must be deeply impressed with an idea o f the necessity of stmie such change, and that it was the duty of that House to pass some such measure. But would it not be better to take experience as zt guide in place of the imagination_ of the Right lioneekble • Gentleman ? There was already a precedent to assist thtir judgment in the case of hie Hon.* Friend the Member for Lenark. Did any one suppose that because he had got the sure information relative to the freeholders of Scotland, that that sweeping Reform ex. pectedby the Right Hon. Gentleman was a bit the nearer ?'— ' (Wear; .hed seen no symptoins 'of the public alarm foretold in such a juncture of circumstances ; and if it had not come from a person of the Right Hon. Gentleman's rank and station, he should say it was a niere chimera. The question was, whether the mode of seeking this information was of a Parliamentary nature or not ? and here was a case in point--ea precedent which, with all hie acuteness, the Right H. Gentleman had not ventured to allude to. The' motion, ,then, was useful in its nature, and proper hi its feirm. Use ful, to enable them to compare the changes which had taken place in population with the unchanged state of the elective franchise ; and proper, by the precedent whi c h h e h a d quoted. And were they to forgo this' merely because the Right Hoe. Gentleman admitted what be thund it difficult to deny ? (Hear !)—The fact wee, the Right lion. Gentternan had a fear ful eye on the 11th of March, and he felt that this inforniation if obtained would make a-deep Impression on the minds of many persons, and assist his Noble 'Friend's motion eventually. And so far be would agree with hint, inasmuch as there was e a great 'feeling in the minds of vie portion of thi s co nnt r y as to the necessity of Reform. But because the imagination,of the Right flonottrable Gentleman was 'thinned at the approaching Ilth of March, the House . was not to be deprived - of: what it hail a just right taexpect. Then as , to the secentletround of olre ljection to The motion, which, as he said, ewes founded in exaggeration of his Noble Frientl's'views. The fact was, that his motion hed nothing at all to do with thr Charters. But the -Right Honourable Gentleman supposed that his Noble Friend was to be Assisted by soma . astute persons for , the pur pose of picking holes in then ell. It was not so, but merely to ascertain what constituted the right of voting in the diflbrent Boroughs ; and that this would lie a most useful, and was a most necessary inquirk could hot be • denied, when so few offi cers really knew distinctly what tiiii constitute that right, which ' they were every day called upon to decide. Lleyond this, it was the, object of the motion to ascertain the number of free men in each place. Ittnight be true, that in a large place like Liverpool, to which no doubt the mind of the Right Honour able Gentleman naturally recurred, it would be difficult to make' this return; but in all such cases the greatest number that had ever voted at an election would be deemed a suffi cient answer. He thought he had made it out Clear that his Noble Friend was • entitled to his motion.—(Hear, hear !)_ And why the Right Ilon. Gentlemen should deny thin motion he could not uatleystand unless it were that he thought it would make against that question of which lie was the known advo. cate and champion. For his part he cared little whether it was earried or not, when regarding it in that point of view ; because he was satisfied that more good would accrue to the cause of Reform by the refusal than if it were agreed to. For what would be the construction of every plain rational mind upon such couduct ? Would not such a mind naturally ask this question—" What can induce the House of Commons to refuge this information ?"—(hear,heat!)—Such, he contended,would be the effect of it—and what would be the plain rational an swer to .that question ? It would be this —" Nothing, but that they are afraid of the dieelosure."—(llear, hear !)—That was the light, and the only tight in which the refusal would be re. petted by the public at-large. And then lie put it the Right. Illonourable Gentleman, whether he would not hasten the crisis which it was the object of his opposition to retard or prevent ! Then would he not give that impulse to the public mind which he dreaded—that mind being already premed, anti viewing with different feelings, in a different light, and occupying it. self with a greater earnestness:` now than it had ever be fore done, with the daily advancing Cause, of Reform.— (Hein hear!) Mr:Secretary PEEL said, that notwithstanding the speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, he intended to resist the motion before th e House upon precisely the same grounds as those urged by his Right Hon. Friend, (Mr. Canning) and he was prepared to cont en d t h at the Honourable and learned Gentleman had not succeeded in weakening the force of ehose grounds.-..(Hear, from-the Oppo sition.)—First of all, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman set out with the inference that his Right lion. Friend was afraid of the disclosures that would result from the appointment of the Com mittee. How was it possible to draw such an inference when his first avowal was, that he conceded ell that could be asked on that score ?—(Hear, hear -o—Could he then be afraid ofdis closures, when he himself' admitted their full weight ? The lion. and Learned Gentleman then said he would begin by throwing aside all the argument* of hi s Ri g h t Hon. Friend (Mr. Canning) in favour of the.tiesys of the Noble, Lord, (Lord J. Russell) considering that the mover must be the best judge of his own intentions and interests. Why this was as if a mo tion made by an Honourable Member in' that House, be came that Member's private property,—and ,as it' it was not competent to the .House to discuss the object and ten tendency of every motion—(lleer, hear !)—Admitting this right, was it not a fair use of net) affirm, that the views of the Mover would not be aesinted by the motion he had framed, as the information required by rr it could not he correctly obtained ? Was it prudent to expose the d e f ects ee the Representation ? (hear from the Opposition.)—He (Mr. Peel) argue d accor di ng to the vieves.of the Noble Lord, and he said, that if his object were, to spew the paucity of Alembers upon which representa tion rested, then, as regarded his object, he could only draw from it an illegitimate interference. If his real object w e re merely to put a single question to the officers who were to ap pear before the Committee, why not put that question without theCommittee?--(hear, the-Committee ?—(llear, hear!)—lf so, why follow lipids trio tion by a call for persons, paperii, anti records? How could he offer to limit the power, or check the researches, of the Com mittee e Might lie not be permitted to have just alarms at seeing a Committee fur such p u rp oses i nvested w i th on. limited powers ? He agreed with hi s Ri g h t li on . F r i en d, t h at the same vigilance and jealousy ought to g u a rd this specie s o f right, as guarded private property, w h ere not hin g but lidera. tion could justify the production of t h e t i t l e deed. But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman says he has got a precedent ; and the question was, did that precedent apply ? The number gh Of Scotch electors had, he believ e d, b een ca ll e d f or as in the • Case of Ireland, and the call yeas easily a n swere d, for the free. holders were registered. But was thin done throe; the me, thorn of it Committee, and if not ; how did the precedent apply If they departed from the means formerly pursued for the seine proleieved object, how could they prevent the inference that sonic other views actuated them,.-.. (hear, bear !) : .--And if no other view influenced the Noble Lord, hew ,came it that in none of' his former motions on the ,subject of Reform had he noticed the matter, Until the Bon. Member for Appleby (Mr. Creeevey? gave him the hint ? He thought it was not right by a motion of this kind to prejudice the discussion on the question of Reform. Let that brought in by a aide wind in t lie manner. On • the ground, l► ueetion be met fairly, tied not therefore, that he did not wish to prejudice the great ques tion of Parliamentary Reform,- he opposed this motion. • Lord .1.• RUSSELL wished to kne w whether lie wax to under. stand the Right lion. Secretary, that if he moved for a Itentrn he would not oppose so, he would give up the present no flan fora Committee. Xt. Seerenny PEEL would be ready to meet any motion the Noble Lord might thiek proper to make.. But lie could not allow himself to be drawn in to pledge himself before hand which course he would take. Mr. CREEVEY Onving been Alluded to tte the person who originally suggested the milieu before the House, would briefly repeat the grounds upon which lie. had sot eested it. lie had stated to the House thin the population had increased from five millions to eleven millions within is given period, but that while the population was so incr e asing, the monopoly of the elective franchise remained exactly where it had at first been, and the number of electors not much increased. With a view, there fore, to ascertain and eatlarnie the exact ratio in which the two had proceeded as regarded each other, he proposed that that course should be taken which had been adopted by his Noble Friend. The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) said, he was ready to admit that the Members were as lie gated they were, and thereupon wieliedeo put a stop to' the motion. 'This was the first time that such language had been hold by the Minister of the Crown-to that House. .He never had in view the calling of the Charters inquestion, and he considered the House b u d a right to the information., In former times there an Act prohibiting every man fintn voting who was not actually a resident in the Borough ; and at one time there was an attempt made to repeal that Art in the reign of Queen Elizabeth ; but it failed, the Bill not getting beyond the Contrnittee. It would be well to contrast the langua ge o f that period with the practic e of the present times. The lion, Member the!) read an extract from the speech of some Member in a former Parliament, which recited—" That a Duke of the realm wrote to a certain Borough, saying, thin th e r e was ecanething to come on shortly in Parliament, upon which lie was to surninon all his friends; and that as he coneni ere d t here amongst his friend s , h e sent them four llama, begging they would elect two out of them to return to Parliament. They answered the Duke in all humble. nese that they were p ro hibited by law from doing that which he &sired of them, and many others allswete4 in the same way, by the lew, sayieg ehat liberty were a kiwi of liberty it' left to, act as,they pleased in such a matter, without being li mited by law." The Speakeealso observed,'` that it were a pity hut all towns had answered in the Mlle wey, for then they lied not been sorobbed as they were." The act peohibiting non-resi dents from voting had Ousted up to the 14th of the late King, and it was a pity it had ever been repealed. They should then not see as they did now every day, not Peers merely writing ' to boroughs, but Peer and purchaser going down together.—. They would not now see. Cornwall a. sort of open market for such .. purchasers as the philosophical Member for Bodmin could tell it was. Nor would it . now - a-tla . ya, be a topic of po.: liticel conversation as to what sums had been laid out in an investMent of freemen. With' regard to the question before the House, the Right Honourable Gentleman oppreite, (Mr. Canning) told them lie had turned the matter in.his mind, and thought the appointment of a Committee would not be avail ' able—zand this was the only answer that was to be made to it.— The exeellent apeech of lion. and Learned Friend (Mr. Abercromby), in favour of the notice. could not fail to strike, evezy one who heard it as unanswerable, and he - hoped it would prove so/ Lord MILTON did not mean to enter into the question, but rather to ascertain on what ground his Noble Friend's motion was resisted. His Noble Friend said it was right that certain defects should exist in the representative system, whilst the Right Hon. Gentleman who opposed him made the exposure of these defects the ground of opposition. He did not wish to touch his Noble Friend's motion ; but he wished to know which of the grounds that had been put forward was that upon 'which honourable Meinbe,rs meant to oppose his Noble Friend. The night Hon. Secretary for the Home Department said, that they were willing to give .the information if any means could be devised of getting at it. But he much suspected they were afraid of the information. It appeared to him, that the, connection between taxation and representation was as good a ground as that of population and representation. Ikir:.PEEL, in explanation, said that he had only taken up, on his own chewing, the argument of the Noble Mover, and that as lie had declared the intention of reserving in his view of Reform, some of the Boroughs, it would be imprUdent to ex. pose wt detioency in their constitution. The House then divided on Lord John 'Russell's motion Ayes . . 90 Noes . - 128—Majority 38. Mr. W. SMITH moved that there be laid before the house a return of the Amount from Jannury.lB2l to 11.122, of the Du ties on Soft and hard Soap, together with the Amount of Draw. back on the Exportation. The, lion. Member observed that his object was to give a comparative view of the amount when the Ditties were lower.—Adjourned. MINORITY ON MR. HUME'S MOTION FOR REDUCING THE OFFICE OP _LIEUT.-CTENERAL OF 111 F ORDNANCE.-FEB. 19. ' Allyn, J. H. Grattan, J. Pym, F. Althorp, Visct. Guise, Sir W. Ramsbottorn, John Astell, Win. Haitlimand, W. Ricardo, D. , Baring, H. Hamilton, Lord A. Bickford, Wm. Barratt, S. M. . Hem, Sir R. , Roberts, A. W. Benyon, Benj. Hobbouse, J. C. Roberts, (I. J. Bernal, R. Honey wood,W.P. Robinson, Sir G. Birch, J. Hurst, R. Rowley, Sir W. Boughey, Sir J. F. Hutchinson, Hon. Sefton, Earl of Bright, Henry • • C. H. . Smith, John Byng, George James, W. Smith, George Calvert, C. Jcrvoise, G. P. Smith, Hon. Rt. Chaloner, Robert Lemon, Sir W. Stanley, Lord Creevey, T. Lewis, W. . ' Tynte, C. K. Curwen, .1. C. 31aber1y, John Webbe, 'Ed. Cradock; S. Nlaberly, W. L. Wells, John Davies, T. • 'Mahon, lion. S. Whitbread, S. C. Denison, W. J. Marjoribanks, S. Williams, J. Denman, Thus. Martin, J. Wilson, Sir R. Duncannon, Visct. Maxwell, J. - .Winnington, Sir T. Dundas, Charles Milton, Viscount Wood, Alderman Ebrington, Visct. . Monck, J. B. Wvvill, M. Ellice, Ed. Nugent, Lord Wigram, W. Fergusson, Sir R.C. Palmer, C. F. TELLERS. F i tzgerald, Lord W . : Pelham, Hon. C.A. Bennet, Hon. H. G . Olenorchy, Lola Pelham, .1: C. • ' flume, Joseph Mr. W. Whitbread and Mr. W. Wilkins paired oft in fa. y L o o u n r g. of Mr. Ilume's motion, with Lord Deerhurst a nd Sir C. FOR THE SUN. POPERY. MR. EDITON-If you should not judge it in convenient, it would afford satisfaction to a coun try reader of your valuable paper to be permitt ed, through the medium of your columns, to re fer those advocates of the Catholic Claims, .who conceive, like the author of the Cahn Appeal, that the Papacy is sunk into such insignificancy that the world need nu longer fear any thing from its power, to the following extracts from the Memoirs of NAPOLEON, viz. 46 Had it not been for the events of the Russian campaign, the Pope would in 1813, have been Bishop of Rome and Paris. The establishment of the Court of Rome In Paris would have been fertile in great poll• tical events—and the influence which the chief of Christianity possessed over the faithful in Eng land, Ireland, Russia, Prussia, Austria, Hungary, and Bohemia, would have been the inheritance ofFrance. This alone explains the speech which the Bishop of Nantes remembered, but was unable to explain. One day at Trianon he was forcibly representing the utility and importance of the visible Head of the Church of: Jesus Christ, with respect to the unity of faith !-- " Monsieur Bishop," (said Napoleon) be not uneasy ; the policy of my States is intimately connected with the maintenance and power o f th e Pope ; it is necessary to me, that he should be more powerful than ever ; he will never possess so much influence as my policy would induce me to wish him to enjoy." Eng. land may yet have arduous conflicts to sustain in defence of liberty, both civil and spiritual ; and should not be shorn of her constitutional strength. K. N. FOREIGN Ti!.A nr.—Yesterdny',at three o'clock, the Committee re-appointed by the llouse of Commons assembled for the first time. Mr. .WALT,Ac, Mr. Pt.tmEtt, Lord ALTiluite, &e. were present. rrlr. WALLACI.: is the Chair— man. The Committee discussed the goestion, whether they should commence their labours with examining further witnesses, or whether they should content themselves with documentary evidence, unless circumstances should arise ,to render the examination of other witnesses requisite ; but the Committee-room was cleared, .and shortly after they adjourned to Monday. As yet, no witnesses have been summoned ; but it is expocted that the attend ance of some Merchants and official men will be ordered. FOREIGN IN LIiTNIENT AST.—Yesterday a meeting of the Overseers, Churchwardens, and inhabitant Householders of the parish of St. John, Southwark, took place pursuant to a public notice at the Vestry Hall, adjoining the church, for the purpose of taking intoconsideration the propriety of petitioning the Legislature for a repeal of the Foreign Inlistment Act. After , some discussion, the Petition was agreed to, there being only three dissentient voices. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. IIOCSE OF CWIMONS. - . JOtti, f, 20°. die Februarii; 1823. taircLostrllES—Thame'(Oxford), Throne and Sydenham (Oat ford), Croydon (Surrey), and Hof and DrYbeck (S%est l l 3ol ` - ' land)—Bills entered. Oulton (Cumberland) —Bill read a first time. Beam Heath (Cheshire), and Staveley (York), Acts Amendment—Petitions for Bills referred to Com mittees. ROADS—Ban ou b tixu Gla sgow ry .... go a l n iow d n n ti(ora Union sn t il B e i ß le t t t t r r y .s S ) t. Edmund's ,, arid Saffron 'Walden, Ileiston, Liskeard, IVinchester and Barmy. Stock bridge, 8.. c. Staplecross, Horsham anti Crawley, IVigan ad Pre.ston, Preston and Garstang; 'Winchester and Andover,. Seend Street and Box, Sparrows Ilene . and Walton. Wilt, acs Bank Foot and Huddersfield, Okehamptort, 'RugbY, Norwitill anti Fakeahant, and Dartmouth and Keybery— l'etitions for Bills referred to Committees. 31elcon Now bray, Market Ifarborouelt, and Hinckley and Lutterworth-- Bills read a first time. Greenfield and Shepley, and Kingston and Sheet Bridge—Bills ordered. GAS LIGHT--.Chesterfield, Dublin, Greenwich, and York— Petitions for' Bills referred to Committees. Brigh° and Maidstone—Bills ordered. II ARBOVIIS--;,1111.130gIte ( Ireland )—Petition for:Bill referred to a Committee. Ilfordcombe—Bill read a first time. TlTHES—Lancaster .7 UDGES LODOIxds--Lanesster PA v t NG—Linlithgow BRIDGE — W orcester C e I GII t,Frm s i o tlßAssr u c 1 . 1 A. RH ' RA R I Lit ' Eo—I T * E.En — I O A, ritiisyl;ll-Southwark so l l utt e t I T : : l y ...rs n£o: India'sr tS,rThke Junction, "0 1 , 1 a e n tl , 1 1 3ft i : 1 pt O? 1 din burghvAT rn , a t n . d Sstat.LDEß : rs—Leeds lIRIDOE AND CAUSEWAY —llayr a 1 '' d COHPANY—Gas LightaannddACmokeeri—cmaP-netit_l3io.ll:;:firir::::::l-. . j • „ 11 Koo rted. lxuntstrY nilla - d a third time, Colonies Yetitioris for 13011, - re ferred to Com , ntitte.d. —....- . ORDERS of the DAY for THIS DAY. I. Supply—Committee. 3. Chancellor of the Exchequer (Irel and) Bat—Col s 2. Ways and Means—Committee. NOTICES OF MOTIONS for THIS D AY ' r uing 1. Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequcr,—Statetuent Noce , the Revenue and Finance of the Country' "f su;:-' 2 . Sir Joltp Osborn-;-Vote of Seamen. (In Comm ittee° ~, pplY)- n ',sea 3. Mr. CharoAlor of the Exchequer —Exchequer 1 1, .. i '„ . . , Annual Duties. (In Committee of Ways and Me a nt'„. 4. Lord Viscount Folkestone—Top resent retitiOn 0 Thompson. e t Furd 5. Sir John Newport—Returns relative to the First . r°l - Ireland. 14. Last Day for receiving Petitions for Pri1te2. 3 2........"" ittee. F STOCKS • 1 - ONE 0-0.00 C• ......1. 1 India Stock .............. go .. .... ~ : India Bonds... ........ ... South Sea Stock .......... 0141 Annu i t iei .......... . 1 .... 3 .. 1 .. ~., ,,r : Ex. Bills.. . ... F I , Ditto Small ...... . ............. ._., Banlefor Act. .... • I n di a for. Con. Acct. ..... C PRICE OF FOREIGN STOCKS IN for 1 INl4,oc:D un O t "3 "., ... .... ;C:C: { --4...— . AT ONE O'CLOCK.. , , . :: • Five per Cents. 79. *f. { Six per (. I ‘..nts. 00. Austrian Neapolitan : 1 1. }Ni Fi v e ,i,t l .. : c i iii. i le. . 6%vr i t vv . w, t e eeee : p, i p i ,6,ll) ) ) e , e!e73rfr;rt:CttCw(le.,ed7nnnln2it Ce nts. t t lit s t k . . 7cl. ... l.l ß ß :: oo o . l ini t l t e edd i t a t a iss Bonds,:i. 1 i , 1 i70 6 7 : 91 ) 800 :1 .: . :1 c ' Prussian 1. Dim New , pi. Danish Chili 70. Colombian Six per Cent. Bonds, 47. Peruvian New Loan, 00. PRICE a TIIIS DAY AT Bank Stock — :t per Cent. Heil. 741. 75 3:per Cent. Cons. "4 1 , f I . 3i per Cent — 4 per Cent. I thd 93ai New 93i -5 ,per Cent*. 1797 flank Long Ann. 19 9-16ths a Imp. 3 per Cents. — French Itustian Spanish Am • ericee j Bank Shares £4l , ''''''''c per C- -. as. 1 Five per -nt. ilil-98. t.Three Cent.e„, 95A-97 •-• C ent . ,q- • • oJA- - e -...-- • - - STOCK, Fla. tl. Canal 1.001, .1 pct. 1i Grant] vim 6 percent. •.. ii 4 i —lSt' °Stock ........... „.. . 'Royal Canal Stock . : ...... Wide.strret Cert. 611er C t. ---„, ..Do. I)eb. with 4 1 oy. Sec,. ...... 1 ig-ipe IVater Deb. &pet et. ). ............ 6 per cent. .-- Ballast Office tiovt. Sec' .. .. 4 5 per cent. .... . ... . ... .. . don, keb. 17, si. PRICE OF IRISI Rank Stork 942 Gov. Deb. 34 per cent. Stock, 3A per ct ll6i Gov. tijb. 4 per cent. Goy. Deb. - 5 per cent. A --Stock t'3 per cent. ,95i Treasury Bills, 5 per cent City Debentures, 5 'per cent. Lying in Hospital 4 per .ct. • Exchange on Loa vening,BßlDGF.' , E ro.moit goo'. u ttowitel ilfter 0, 111(411 WATER AT LON DO "'turning. 57 minutes atter 11. THE. sup. , • SOLE.! QUIS DEE F ICR4LSUIt 4-1111t41.‘ LONDON, s „ 3 , FRIDAY, FEBRU_IRY We leave __.......... i1s erte 7; ome ex-..-0;,........--01 v r ivitt e. cis Papers, but they are unimportailt• - t he' is . not to take place intelligence received in London sets til3t l f i i ortn , i departure of the Duke di ANIGOut.EKE fo r 11 ,0 1 it has been presumed, from .this estrorihti ~,e o l ' and unexpected delay, that t he French "-' r lO ci till the end of six W eeks 1 1 a i rmies beyond the Pyrennees. It is meet are wiivering in the resolution -to °lli t ot the British Cabinet' continues to emP l° Y it oe. uence, both at Madrid and at P a ri;, 1° ' loti IP ' vent a , war between France. and Spain , s . if ;10 1 ' doubts of the fidelity of the French I° l 0 ,4 have not yet been removed, it is possible, ti ° r t . nut very probable, that hostilities way O ren be averted. Certain 5 iv, rarmcg FUNOS.— 1:111. IS , sc , Five Pc? Cents ..... ........ Bank Mock . 7 ........ . ...... . „1.0 5 Neapolitan Five pet Cent 5........ 14714° Spanish Bond,s 1821 Bayonne L i 0 -----.00.-- Papers, to the 13th in r pae lle St*, 1. st , p• this bastiane, morning ;- h Ley contain accounts fro t c if"' ;lane, %sttich mention the arrival in tl ' 3 o dier 0 troops on the 19th and that 01/ 5. division was _expected fra' ' there in a to ~, itig , The 7ttl squadron of the train, aa'°"-Itvait" 19 f 4 men, was expected there, and sev eral i sc' t , i ft of troops to the number of 9,084 men , " lo p Two be at Bayonne by the 19 th of , f l a t : Wi tt e : cruizers of the Defenders f vile '' it f 1 1' o 0 for some days past, disturbed the commerce. 6 ate coast of Biscay ; but three or four 0111 1 .......... i