The Sun. — London, England, 1846-07-28 00:00:00

fined - 1 to gene' [ 11°t i yisS a dr ,ept 3100 61 10 0 ' , ya rd lo The, r Sea DO ,ving as k - a, '01147' • ors, ° Otte 0 tp stated ape onl a t tie ies t t to sl it t ,sver t : ib Nue se' it oo .611P' co uP 00; s - ii) re 1 t ti:; he c1o,„, ,e1 95 , 1° erl" DP"' ' : 111"S et l# lO f°l. tes', e of t- ,1 cP°'Sy f cr its ai to Ot P 3111. ' 4 11. es Col li e ' 0 .4 6 ,t 111 s. ..;:j.ifft,. IrlAt Pi- rote r oot an ditr es 01. v iJf' r , r.:tioreliovrtir • , 010; etisir ef / pe, Of .°i° 'Jr. 05 0 ,,p) 1;1' 0110 fr t iod, ricrip , •ne' , o l ,0 0 4°' ,*0 G y lt r ~tl ~l pa vi l 3 1-" i. i;of' be 0 ,; OP,, Oi ' Ore ' 5l I 00 . 1i 1 .0 'Ott. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE c)l 7 LORDS. Jvly 27. ROYAL ASSENT. at Th e Royal Assent was given to day, by Commission, four 'clock, to no less than eighty-three Bills. The ofc,,leissoners were the Lord Chancellor, the Marquis nricards, and the Earl of Minto. LiThe fullowing are the titles of the Bills : (i)zunt Hardinge's Annuity Bill. C orr Gn ugh% Annuity Bill. Vir e ;."Pending Society Bill. c,,.,,Leri?. Australia Bill. ' '''4 ' wh 'PPers' Bill. Ijit.alfiels' New Street Bill. 3;otiroaers' (Ireland) Bill. Cal ee ,and Perth Railway Amendment Bill. brid e Railway (Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coa'a 8 4 1 ge Branches) 13111. Ashtoi L-- and Manchester Railway NOrtb i-under er- no, aa -3 ,'brido . e and Hayfield Branches) Bill. to o k i Railway Bill. iiirrn.agharashire Railway (Tring to Banbury) Bill. laoad,, th ,g h am, Lichfi,hl, and Manchester Railway Bill. lie we - " and Croydon 'Railway Bili (Thames Junction). astle ham rind Darlington Junction Railway ()ur- Pa re i l ah ' ° n!".(1-,rland Railway, and Wearmouth Dock kirea t nr.id Branches) Bill. 4 Yrshi r e ' t 'erta and Wyc.;mbe Railway Bill. alai e, , e, of Weir and Port Glasg _ ow Junction R A ahbur South t "rii Newt on , and South Devon Railway Bill. Gl otln ',gales Railway Bill. Anil -eater and Dean Forest Railway Bill. Or a n,,,d Selby „ r Railway Purchase Bill. Ifi r d `r. aorth of England Railway Purchase Bill. tp an!rehm d Railway (L e i cester and Swannington Railwaye rln a ). don and Birmingham Railway and Birmingham oerp, ,arrangement Bill. Fie,„;Y, Warrcupoint and Rostrevor Railway Bill. ""ed PWest Riding .Junction Railway resta a , and d r 'Ne•rth *Midland Railway (Widening and En. Loa t i g " n e r , t) Bill. te : sio and Birmingham Railway (Leamington Ex (wed, fk) Bill. Nor Railway (Carlisle Deviation) Bill. :i t: t ali:larks Minerat Railway (Deviation and Branches) • Oswestry, and Chester . Junction and North %Idles Mineral Amalgamation Bill. ( I ti o r "rdi Chichester, and Portsmouth Railway Bill Mudd 2, • ersfield and Manchester Railway and Canal (Hud tlerSfield Diversion and Cooper-bridge Branch) -4orricshire and Glasgow Union Railway Bill. tarndriJunction Railway (lluyton and Aston, and other ~. aches) Bill ? D a nd , tr wsbur s Bly,aind Manchester Railway (Deviation Airdrie, Cil4nches ' and Monklands Junction Railway -we'astle and Darlington Junction Railway (Durham ar id Sunderland Railway and Wearmouth Dock Pur- B l chase) Bill. Clitheroe, and North Western Junction ~Railway Bill. tcrilr g c a s m to a n ti' li. n aiw ay Bill. lac kburn Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne, anti Manchester R a il wa y (Peak Forest and Macalasfi el Canal Purchase) Bill. Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne, and Manchester Railway and Amalgamation Bill. Ely and Huntingdon Railway (Radford Extension) Bill. Midland Railway (Purchase of Oikhana Canal) Bill. Tenby, Saundersfoat, and South Wales Railway Bill. taneaster anti Carlisle Railway Extension, and Lan caster and Preston Railway Amalgamation Bill. Eastern Counties Railway (Stations Enlargement) Bill. Manchester, Bolton, and Bury Canal Navigation and Railway Bill. eds and Bradford Railway (Alteration of Levels) Bill. 4.oadon and Blackwall Railway (Widening) Bill. Sh rewsbury, Os, estrY, and Chester Junction (Crick heath and NV, m line) Bill. ,East Lan cas hi re R a il way (Deviations and Branches) Bill. " I ndderafi e ld and Sheffield and Manchester and Leeds Railways Amalaamation Bill. Ip ul tir krd, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway Bill. tress Railway E x t ens i on Bill. r sw ieh and Bury St. Edmund's Railway (Norwich Ex tension) Bill. "ne and Brighton Railway (Wandsworth Branch) Bill. 4'erpool and Bury and Manchester and Leeds al lat l ny Amalgamation Bill. kimi and Brighton and London and Croydon Railway iik‘ensolidation Bill. M e t b ffi eld General Cemetery Bill. Mop vned Waterworks Bill. er n., Amalgamation Bill. Al 4 i mprovement Bill. Niinf Inchaffray Drainage Bill. g r e y Canal and Birmingham Canal Companies' Amal cron7tton Bill. Otta r O r d Canal Bill. Wu:" Waterworks Bill. Flai t “ord Harbour Bill. siihsast Imp rovement Bill. IllaL ar neck Waterworks Bill. 401,k Sluice D ra i nag e and Navigation Bill. W a Tsay Municipal and Police Bill. 46 a 7uPon-De arne Improvement Bill. q ta -rte and C oat b r id ge W a t erwor k s Bill. 4.f;gt'qv Municipal, Police, and Statute Labour Bill. ar l Estate Bill. Povvs' Estate (Ludlow Charity) Bill. 11 4 :eh's Charity Estate Bill, and f i !ny's E s t a t e Bill. aa„Ce Earl of S H AFTESBURY took his seat on the Wool --"A at Five o'clock. LUNATICS ASYLUM BILL. tate4.ra r ;: • , EDESD ALE presented a petition from certain Asyl ai A• 'Z ii i , ra the county of Wilts against the L unatics th (11 1..11ONS INCLOSLiR c I `Jo% n - 'notion of the Earl o A B R IL E L N . DON, the Print nl e l . 3' nelendments on this Bill were ordered to be Lord is RAILWAY BILLS. rep or b . -,ertrnan and other Noble Lords broug ht u p fereeC "11 to Sea et C several railway Bills, which had been re ommittees. tPETROPOLITAN BUILDINGS ACT. veoe or i r i" PORTMAN gave notice that, to-morrow, he ask her Majesty's Ministers a question in e e to this Bill. The refer- POOR-LAW (IRELAND). the 4arl of CLANCARTY, in presenting the report oth ep e,Conainitt ee appointed to consider the Poor-law and c0 0 ,:j 4 4 ,a , v8 relating to the poor in Ireland, hoped that the ti o ,f i'L° l l of the Irish poor would occupy at an early pe tion t he attention of Government; and whether concilia r coercio n was a d o pt e d, he hoped that impar ttialtjustice would be done to that people. He b el i eved h eef e rnial to the welf a re of the Irish people to have oor-la w carr i e d out proper l y, an d to h ave me di ca l l tereti connexion with these laws properly admindis.- eat lie also thought that the question of men i t, e ?' should receive early consideration. The Noble '1 concluded by moving that the report now laid d o th e table be printed and circulated. Before he sat val es he wished to remove an impression generally pre iint, th at he intended to i ntro d uce a M e di ca l Ch ar iti es I. l 'l this sess i on , b e li ev i n g, as he did, that it was at 4;er the province of the Government to do so. "uhe D the consid E euke of L ration o f the he Ho thought use. the report was well c ' tt ilY SLAVE TRADE. which BROUGHAM said, in pursuance of the notice dLinch he had given the House, he had now the honour p r esent the petition o f o n e o f the most v e ne ra bl e in iduals at present left on the earth. The petition was trete the British and Foreign Anti-Sl aver y Society, but, ac cording t o t h e ru l es of the i r Lordsh i ps ' House, it could not be received as such; consequently, it must be received as the petition of an individual, but that indi vidual a man, as he knew, and as all their Lordships k new, pre eminent above all others for his great per formances in the cause of justice, humanity, and sound Policy. When he recollected the history of that distinguished individual, when he reviewed that history for a period of three score years ; that th a t i n di v id ual, who had attained the extreme verge of human life, re maining steady to his principles, without looking back on the past, except to profit from experience, or diver g i ng to either side, except to collect materials for his gallant force looked forward still to the promoting the happiness of his race. He said, when he considered this, he felt that in presenting the petition he was entitled to their Lordships' respectful sentence. That petition prayed that if a measure should be presented to their Lordships' House —a measure for introducing sugar from foreign and British colonies, not only where there was free labour, but Where the produce was manufactured by manacled handy-- their Lordships would give it their decided opposition. "-it prayed that their Lordships would express their dissent from that measure, however it might be intro 'lilted into that House commended on expediency, and r9IIA, human policy. virttmllv r.drai•t '- irt9, - ipzun ;Tito ill?, country that -rhich ion?' ago up o ` l ed I , orrid as to lc * arit condemnation 01l the world, h e -t r , mar. was an advocate, as wei , a thc:e. whom be t e presented, for the repeal of the differential duties let t i e en foreign and British colonial produce, and for e va rl g all in on precisely the same terms, provided al ulaYs that that produce of foreign colonies was not the si.nufasture of the victims of that nefarious system of to li ve rY which sixty-one years limo he began to abolish. e present measure gave rise to a sad sentime n t, b ut a se ntiment also of another kind ; there was a senti ;rit or wonder and astonishment, which in his 1,""d found no bounds, that their Lordships should thatecg the subject at all in the year 1846 ; it should now he matter of doubt whether their Lordships were to give the slave trade their countenance nd tncourvre t that it should b the slave trade wh e men . , w rn they were discussing was enough to fill his bosom. than'en he considered one thing, it staggered him more h all, and that was the date, the time of the year that en e , was reluctantly called on for the hundredth time to p n - '" "Pon this discussion. The discussion was itn ti:!tamt, it Was important in a commercial view ; in a re venue view it was of no mean importance that a venu e of some millions should cease to be levied by one vot e of both !louses ; and constitutionally, therefore, it a discussion of no small importance. The petition refer red to a measure which was to introduce into the l'ia e ".k !As of E urope t h e produce of slave colonies—o f our w__ 11 : 10 s, perhaps, as the chanc e m i g ht b e , if the peace 1 , j a r s brok en ; and the question before their Lordships tr a d e, whether t h ey wou l d encourage the slave withe whose strength they had already th , red, or if entirely abolished, whether questsY would revive that accursed traffic. as tha on as vast even in its constitutional relation to o t whip we have been lately discussing ; this, on the 27th of July, being later than any other v,..."'tlivtiaus termination of the Parliamentary year—(Hear) too, also at a period when Parliament was jaded 134,..t!_nge,attendance and the transaction of an amount tilts= unparalleled in the annals of Parliamentary .v ` l4l3 gt, Itud exhausted by duties the most exciting they had ever heard of (Hear, hear.) It was under these circumstances they were called upon to enter upon this fruitful sui jeet. This subject was not new. It had been bro :gh , for; 'era occasionally in 1841, 1844, and 1545 ; hut it e never really brought forward as a subjec ee . ne re party running. counter to another party, are "- sugar duties were now brought forward for the h sst t..rue on its merits.—(Hear, hear.) It was whispered that it was better to have it now than at any other session. "It was sure now to succeed in the state of parties at present. When there was a scramble this (the present Government) had a chance" It was, next to the sewerage question, that upon which parties were united. Next to the drainage question, it was the great question of the day.—(A laugh.) Therefore the Government was content to show that they were agreed on some question. They had a better chance now, because they had been promoting free-trade with respect to the home producers, and they were now going to take away the protection from the foreign grower. Why not then take the matter as it now stands rather than delay far a future consideration, and when the second reading would be pressing on their atten tion. Far easier to discuss this qte stion—a stormy and a difficult question, as he must acl;noe ledg , noW, when it was but a matter of theory than when a permanent decision of the matter was to be decided upon. Surely it was better to take time by the forelock and discuss this question, rather than when there was only an empty House, to hear what was to be alleged on the subject. Oh, that ho had the same House to discuss this question that he had to discuss the question of the corn-laws. He could not but say that he looked upon this matter with great alarm, with an alarm for the consequences which it was impassible to describe. Had he had such a House to discuss this question as he had to discuss the question of the corn-laws, for if so then might he tell his Venerable Friend, Thomas Clarkson, to be quiet, and that he might sink to his repose in the grave with a certainty that the victory which had been achieved over slavery and the slave trade would remaie undisturbed. What necessity was there to t , ke this measure up now ? Why should there be a proposition to take up this Bill no w, when the year was already so far advanced, when the system of slavery and of its abolition was as yet untried ; when the knowledge of what sugar might be obtained from Singapore, from Manilla, and from our own possessions in the West In dies, was as yet unknown ; when the effect of the late measures for the suppression of slavery and the slave trade were yet incomplete ? Surely it would be better to act according to common sense and consistency, and take the Bill for a year than legislate thus in a hurry, and endeavour to pass a per manent measure, when there was neither oppor tunity for consideration, or time for its direction. He begged to call the attention of their Lordships to the peculiar moment chosen for giving up the home markets of this country to the slave-grown sugars of Brazil and Cuba. When he looked and law the in fermation which the Government possessed on that subject, and saw their haste and breathless imps armee to get through with this measure, upon the eve of the passing of the corn laws, and btf ire men could come to reflect upon the colonial interests, because the British interests are now just settled, without having had time to examine the case, and studying their own documents ,• they would probably not take it in bad part if he told them one or two things, for the purpose of showing the preposterous mode cf proceeding, and the particular time chosen for giving up their markets. He would first take the case of Messrs. Drake, Brothers, and Co. They state that there was a reduction of 7s. 6d. per cwt., or an equivalent to id. a pound two or three years ago, and representations were made by the suffering planters and merchants, their associates, to the government of that country to take some immediate steps fur putting down the African slave trade—and why? because, said Messrs. Drake and Co., who are stated by the consu'ar agent to be a highly respectable house at the Havannah ; be cause, say they, in their memorial to put down " the retrograde trade"—for that is the noted term applied to the African slave trade—in order to get rid of the glut of sugars, and to open for the Cuba sugar a market in England, that was the bribe held out to them to induce their Government to put down the slave trade, because if they did that, and unless they did it, they would not have access to the English markets, and by this means get rid of the enormous glut of Cuba sugar. So in Brazil. " I have taken considerable pains," says the Consular Agent at Cuba," to inform myself of the feelings of the Government upon this subject. I find that all persons connected with the country are antici pating the circumstance that her Majesty's Government (that is the Government of this country) are waiting negotiations for the renewal of the trade between Brazil," and quid pro quo. He begged to call the attention of his Noble Friends opposite to this. The quid pro quo for the admission of the Brazilian sugar is specified as being " at some period the emanci pation of the Brazilian slaves." The proprietors not only seem prepared fur this, but satisfiel with such admissions. He had mentioned these facts for the information of their Lordships, with the view of showing their Lordships what are the popular impressions on this subject. So the Cuba men and the Brazil men laboured under the delusion that when they emancipated their slaves, and put down the slave trade, the glut of their sugar would never be released by its access into an English market—(Hear, hear)—the British market, they imagine, will demand the abolition of slavery and the slave trade as a condition of letting in the Brazilian and Cuba sugars.—(Hear.) Oh, how little did these planters of Brazil, and Messrs. Drake, Brothers, and Co., of Havannah, and Mr. Cooper, the English Consul, and the Havannah House of Assem- bly—how little did they expect at the time that they were thus expected to concede emancipation as the price of access for their sugars to the English markets. They were about to have that given to them for nothing.— (Elear, hear.) They wore about to be told that that ad mission was to be given on condition that they would not put a stop to the stealir ' * of one of the unhappy wretches from the coast of Africa. Now, he felt persuaded that it was not necessary to urge further argument on this question. He had said enough. Nevertheless so rife was delusion on this subject, so constant was misrepresentation, so audacious was the falsification of the fact, and so incredible the as surance with which these falsifications were urged, so groundless the reasons put forward by the partisans of what was miscalled free trade by political en thusiasts, that he felt it necessary to add some thing more to these remarks of his on this question. Further they must consider that the object of this mea sure was to admit an additional quantity of sugar—say 30,000 or 40,000 hhds. into the English markets, which at present excluded the markets of Cuba and Brazil; for it was ridiculous to say that Lousiana, that could not add to the finances of America, could send to this cisentry, and after paying a duty in America pay a further 10s. in England. To meet the demand for these sugars the earth would require to be drained to the utmost, and wretches would be dragged from their homes in Africa, and exposed to the horrors of the middle pas sage to reap the grounds of Cuba and Brazil. The object of the 1111—andelt would be so entitled when it came down there—was to enc mrage the planters of Cuba and Brazil to bring over yearly from Africa 40,000 human beings, who were at present free, and to make them slaves. It may be said enough had been done to put down the slave-trade—that by the force of the treaty with France, and by exertions of the combined squadron, a great deal had been done for its suppression; and it was alleged that the increased price of the slaves was an additional proof of their suc cess. Their own commississioner from Havannah reported that there were 10,000 slaves imported last year, and he expressed regret that the hurricane and the glut during the preceding year had caused no diminution in the exertions of those who were engaged in the s'ave trade. He had the greatest admiration of General Valdes, a former Gover nor of Cuba, and his conduct contrasted singularly with that of General O'Donnell, who had done every thing in his power to promote the slave trade. The argument advanced in favour of the contemplated change was that they no longer had enough for the consumption of this country. When the question was of pounds, shillings and pence, of pr ifit and cheapness, such an argument might be of some weight ; but when it was a question of good faith, of honesty, of hu manity, and reli g i on , b e despised such an argument, and denied that such a consideration should occupy their attention one moment. But he denied the fact. He denied that they had an insufficient quantity at present for their own consumption. On the question of the corn-laws he never de pended on the famine part of the question, and he appealed to his Noble Friend beside him (Lord Stanley), if he ever employed such an argument. But even if it were a matter of famine with respect to the sugar question, he would not depend on such arguments. He said that famine V/t3 a constant excuse to Go vernment.. for betraying their trmt, and to indivi t;t al iniur:ng ploperly, clnd for UproPriltiog to themFelve: s , hat belonged to their ncighbonic. It had infringed upon the manly minds and cou rage of the stateamea of the country till they deserted their principles. Accordingly the potato disease was talked of. He heard nothing of that disease now. (" Oh, oh" I from Lord Beau mont.) Oh I was the patient suffering still ? He was sorry to hear it. But there was no disease in the sugar cane. Now, he had seen estimates given in two ac mints; by the one the consumption was 220,000 tons; The import from the colonies in the West Indies was 125,000 tons, from all the East India possessions 80,000 tons, from Manilla and Java say 20,000, and from the Mauritius 60,000 ; making about 250,000 tons. But another account was given ; it came from parties to whom he allowed little credit in the matter—from the sugar refiners — who hoped by the present measure to get in sugar at a low rate, so as to bear a large profit for their own process; that account made it under the 250,000 tons. But he took that report with which the late Go vernor-General of India concurred, and that re port made it nearer 300,000 than 250,000. He said it was impossible to over -estimate the capacity for growing sugar of the possessions in the Eastlndies and the Mauritius. If time were given for further inquiry, this subject would be proved beyond all possibility of doubt. But they were already proved by a reference to the amount of imports for the last three or four years. He now come to another point in which they were all inte rested. It might be said by the planters " You are con tent to take coffee, but you will not take sugar. You will allow the poor man to have his little coffee, but you will not give him the sugar to sweeten it."—(Hear, hear.) He was for the poor man having his sugar as well as his coffee, but he must have it by lawful means, though it had been said that stolen sweets were the sweetest.—(A laugh.) He must not, however, have that sugar from slave-grown produce, when they could be supplied from Jamaica, Guiana, Trinidad, and Mauritius, and above all from the West Indies, who were ready to meet any demand. He had no right to take advantage att , of THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDA.V_MORNING, StILY 2S , 1846: of the argument of an unskilful opponent, or the clumsy weapons he used. But he would supply him with an argument. He would give them an answer who inquired why they should admit the sugar of Brazil and of Cuba ; why they should receive the slave-grown coffee of of T:er states as well ? Why, this was one of the greatest fallacies that had ever been broached, one of the most pure and indefensible fallacies. If this were a new reason it would be a different matter. But even in allowing all the value of that consideration, he must be bold to say that, with his friend Thomas Clark son, he was none of those who were such advocates for a barren consistency as would induce any man to over look the advantages of a change when circumstances had altered. When he was asked why they admitted slave-grown cotton, slave-grown coffee, slave-grown to-• bacco and sugar from Cuba, he would reply, that admitting all the reasons of finance, of conscience, and of what he was quite unwilling to underrate the new science of political economy, still he was compelled tosay there was no sufficient reason for the chanee that was now proposed. Well did lee recollect the efforts of his dear friend Sir S. Romilly, and his equally dear friend Sir James Macintosh, whose efforts, now happily- swccessful, were at that time so fruitlessly directed for introducing humanity into our system of punishments. Well did he remember when his friend Sir S. Romilly endeavoured to appropriate freehold estates for the payment of simple contract debts; to do away with such anomalies as in troducing steaming into bleaching grounds a capital offence, as well as other measures of a similar kind; how he was met by Sir William Grant, who threw out his measure on that occasion, and by Mr. Canning who used on that debate the much ill-used term of the wisdom of our ancestors, when, as it is well known, our ancestors were younger in wisdom than ourselves. Did they say to him at that time, why bring in a Bill to abolish this as a capital felony, when there were five and forty others remaining, or why not, instead of stopping at touching freehold property, and making it available for simple contract debts, or why not, instead of taking the debtor to prison, pass a Bill giving power to the creditor to take the money of the debtor? If such arguments had been brought forward he would no doubt have said " Stop a little, perhaps I will go to that." That was the worst] possible answer that could be given to his argument. But again and again let him tell those who consider this great question that they were not then called upon for the purpose of rescinding what was established ; they were not undoing what was already done. lie was not asking them to repeal a law enabling Brazilian and other slave-grown sugars to come into this country. He was resisting a law which was proposed to open this county to the slave produce, and then they said, " Oh, you admit tobacco! Oh, you admit copper." Yes! but if he were called upon for the first time to let in those articles, then would be the time for questioning his consistency of opinion on the ad mission of these articles. But let any man show him a measure which would have the effect of doubling the quantity of cotton to be brow ht into the market, and he wou'd then oppose that also. The great increase or the cotton from America had been pro duced by a population who had increased in a fair and natural manner. But from these remarks of his own he would call attention to the statements of one whose candour and justice was only equalled by his steady consistency in his principles, and who could not for an instant be sup posed to be warped by any kind of bias of reasoning, or by party or personal considerations, against any mea sures proposed by the present Government. He alluded to the Lord Chief Justice of England, and he confessed when he reflected upon the high character of that great magistrate, and the pure and the spotless life, profession ally, politically, and individually, and to the proud situation which he had always held i❑ the eyes of his countrymen, and above all when he recollected that he could be labouring under no bias of political feeling against the measure introduced by his own political friends, he had the greatest reason to allow the greatest weight to his opinions on the subject. When he (Lord Brougham) was talking to his Lordship—and he had his authority for stating it, grieving as he did that he could not himself be personally in that House. Lord LYNDHURST—Where is he ? Lord BROUGHAM—Oh, he is too far from this. He is at Holyhead. Lord Brougham then con tinued—When they were talking of a Govern ment to be formed on the expulsion of Peel, they agreed that they could not go to the country with a great and liberal measure at that time. (His Lordship then read from a letter of Lord Denman's.) His Lord ship (the Lord Chief Justice) said that they had forgot that a liberal Government would be very popular if they proposed to restore the slave trade. They acted upon the principle of doing evil that goad might come ; they gave a free passage from Africa to the Brazils for life— (Laughter)—and they added the free liberty of the lash. —(Hear, hear.) Why, argument in such a case was nothing. They should ascertain what was the right, and whether they could reconcile it with their duty to do a wilful and deliberate wrong—a wrong committed by England, too, which affected to exercise a moral influence on the rest of the world. They argue "We cannot do all good, and therefore we are free to encour age some evil."—(Hear, hear.) As a great experiment was to he tried between free-trade and slave-grown sugar, he was convinced that it would be decidedly in favour of the latter. Slave labour was cheaper forty years ago, because it was always cheaper to buy than to breed, and now the experiment could never be tried on equal terms. The slave-trade could not be put down, and common sense had agreed that the de sire to do so should be termed fanaticism. Frequent changes of Government were assuredly evil, but what was this to be compared with the suffering inflicted by the success of ten slavers. But it was not the success of ten slavers that could enable these markets to cope with the products of the slave countries. Not less than 20 slavers would require to be successfully delivered, for 20,000• additional slaves would be required to supply sugars for the English markets. He also read another expression of opinion from Lord Denman, in which he wondered what Mr. Fox would have said if he had thought that those who had done their utmost to abolish the trade would be engaged afterwards in promoting it and giving a new stimulus to it, for the purpose of trying a new experiment in political economy? The withdrawal of protection, continued the Lord Chief Justice, from our own countrymen in Jamaica would be an injustice, both to black and white. He (Lord Brougham) begged to remind them that sugar was the article which more than any other encouraged the slave trade. Cotton and coffee went but a small way in the encouragement of slavery. He grieved to know that slavery was part and parcel of the institutions of a country which called itself the freest in the world. That, however, was their affair, and slavery being a status established in that country, he had no right to interfere with it. Ile said the question of slavery was not before him now, it was the question of the slave trade.—(Hear. hear.) In increasing the quantity of sugar produced in Cuba and the Brazils, they encouraged not slavery but the slave trade, and that was the gravamen of his charge— the ground of his argument. He said he would not in flict the sorrow and the pain, and almost agony on their Lordships, partaking in it as he did himself, by recalling ;o their recollection the source of that execrable traffic, founded in fraud, pillage, rapine—the hunting of men, the treatment of them as wild beasts, crowding them on shipboard, and afterwards using them like so many irre sponsible beings. But suppose he should remind them of but one circumstance in that traffic—one circumstance of which, had he " the tongue of men and of angels," he could not do such justice to it as the bare recital—as the poet says, could he " warble in sweetest strains that ever seraph sang." The death of a friend, his being con signed to his grave in all nations—but more espe cially in uncivilised nations, who, if they saw not so largely, and felt not so long, yet felt mere deeply than those who, civilised, had more to divert their ideas—these men where almost frantic if visited with any affliction of Providence,—as the death of a brother, a wife, or a child ; these uncul tivated men, themselves, when on board of ship, if one of their relatives was to be consigned to the deep, celebrated the occasion with revelry an unlimited joy ; because they found their relative was released from his sufferings, and an end had been put to his miseries. The guilt of these innumerable horrors—these inhuman crimes —did not rest with the captain and his crew ; but fell also on those who sent them to Leon and Pernam buco for their cargo of ill-fated beings. They did this by opening their markets to this infernal produce. For it was known to them that the sugar was the growth of Cuba—that it was procured by the assistance of slaves ; and, therefore, they were the abettors of this villainous traffic. They understood, too, how these poor natives of Africa were treated. They had had letters on the subject from the various authorities. They had a letter too from the consul at Pernambuco to Lord Aber deen, which stated, " That all the worst features of slavery existed in that country. That there was the greatest degradation of intellect, and that even the laws assisted to transform the African man into the American brute."—(Hear, hear.) He now came to the last com ment he should make. Before concluding, he must make allusion to what astonished him, notwithstanding Ce^ 4u;perieTtn2, ha 11?. 1 1 b 9.4. of failaciew reasonin7 end dot;trior Tbe -97 ayr - tv WPF FTC:A:big of . bad ttseTiec3 the anll9. hvbe Vac eneray'r, emptry, v.+l3 trao aboli , jeniq! - 4 giva um our money and we shall soon abolish slavery."—(Hear.) This then was the argument which they used, that the slave trade in Africa would certainly be increased by the abolition of the duty on foreign sugars. That was the argument. This was the monstrous argument used by the advocates for this new system of political economy. They allowed that this trade, for a time at least, must be increased. The admission of foreign sugars would in crease the horrors of the slave trade ; and this they did while perfectly aware of the consequences that must ensue from their conduct—this they did in cold blood ; and fully aware of the amount of misery that must ensue to the miserable victims of this horrid trade. He must say that in the whole course of investigation into the annals of human presumption, he had never found a more gross act of presumption than that which the ad vecates for this measure held out as a justification of their conduct. They asserted openly that they were aware that this measure would have the effect for a time of in creasing the horrors of the slave trade, and they were ready, for the sake of carrying out their views, to un dertake the great responsibility, he might say the guilty responsibility, of increasing the slave trade ; whilst the poor wretches who were its victims were hunted, captured, murdered whilst this experiment of political economy was being tried. Yet truly terrific as was this asret of the affair—truly as was the terrible future laid before the world by the future thus presented —Lly,re was in it something ludicrous, which in its effect overlaid the terrible, and which even softened the audacity of those by whom it was exhibited. It had been stated that free labour would supplant slave labour. He agreed with the proposition that it would do so if in equal circumstances, because persons would work with greater zeal when working under a system of free labour than when under the terrors of the lash in slavery. The A B C of the abolition society was that free labour would supersede slave labour, but only when upon equal cir cumstances. That principle had been recognised by Mr. Litt and Mr. Wilberforce. It was most profitable to work out thQ negroes. It was frightful to talk of'human beings in that manner ; but they were not responsible for that, the fault rested with the owners of slaves, then, to take care of them. They bad access to the coast of Africa, and could always obtain a fresh supply of slaves. —(Cheers.) I have now nearly done. I have ac complished a task which I felt it my duty to undertake. I have reminded your Lordships of the general features of the case, and I have run over the ground at more length than I wished to have done. If I had had more time to prepare my speech, I should have reduced it to narrower bounds. I may perhaps have a future time to speak, in the meantime all I have to say is this, I do most earnestly and fervently hope that your Lordships will not treat the question as one merely of commercial policy, but as one which involves all the best interests of this c iuntry, and of mankind, religion, justice, and humanity, and policy, and above all the national character and credit and reputation of our country; and, using the language which had been adopted by an eloquent advocate upon a former occasion, " that national honour is in our mind inferior to the course of justice, humanity, and virtue." National honour and national credit is, I am sure, sate in y our Lordships' hands, and the p ra y er o f th e p e titi on , whose society I represent, and their venerable president, will not before your Lordships have been urged in vain. The Noble Lord sat down amid loud cheers. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then said, that in rising be was prepared only to offer a very few words, for he entertained an opinion in common, not only with the majority of their Lordships present, but he believed with the Noble and Learned Lord himself, that this was not the best time or the fit occasion for discussing a measure which was at that moment introduced into the other House of Parliament, and which was yet to receive that full consideration that it must before it came before their Lordships.—(Hear, hear.) His Noble and Learned Friend must have been himself of opinion that this was the least convenient period for a debate on this great question, when he himself had placed on the order book of their Lordships' House a' notice for discussion on this question, and had after wards, in the course of a few days, postponed it, on the ground that it was not yet brought before the other House of Parliament. He, therefore, thought that al though his Lordship was unquestionably entitled to take any opportunity, by giving forty-eight hours' notice be fere his resolution should be received by the House ; yet he certainly thought that although the Noble and Learned Lord had, with his usual eloquence and ability, introduced this question, still it was the wrong period to do so on that occasion, when every argument brought forward in the other House would require to be met by atiticipation.—(Hear, hear.) But his Noble and Learned Fkiend, in the petition which he had presented, had bestowed a great part of his speech, not in supporting the petition, but in answering the arguments of petitioners. The prayer of the peti tion and the speech of the Noble Lord were in direct contrast, The petitioners called upon their Lordships to adopt the policy of refraining from all commodities which were slave produce, but the whole tenor of the speech of the Noble Lord was to avoid the ground of the peti- tioners; to adopt the most untenable ground on which any motion ever attempted to rest its policy, and to limit the consumption of slave produce only to certain articles. Ile wished to tell his Noble awl Learned Friend that her Majesty's Government and himself, who, as his Noble Friend knew, had been at every period of his life zealous for the suppression of the slave-trade, were still anxious for the extinction of it by every legitimate means by which it might be effected by cruisers on the high seas, where it could be done according to the prin ciples of morality . as well as the principles of policy. But, at the same time, he must say, on the part of the people of this country, who had a right to intercourse with those of other nations, from whom were bought those luxuries now almost become necessaries of life, that the Government had no right to withhold them from the people, and thereby virtually to extinguish those principles which but lately had been adopted by Parliament. They would certainly use all proper means for putting down that trade, hut they were averse to in terfering with the interests of other States, or with the principles of their policy; which, however unfit their Lordships might deem them—however er roneous—these nations alone had a right to consider; and he was sure that by holding out threats wiqi a view to leading . them to adopt those pi:inciples which this country cherished, and has cherished for the last twenty years, but in reference to which this country, fifty years ago, was as much in error as they, so far, from accomplishing the desired effect, they would only tend to perpetuate the system which they sought to destroy. There were more horrors committed in Lousiana in one day than in Africa in a whole year. When this question came to be discussed he trusted that they should hear from his Noble and Learned Friend what was that morality which looked to any particular country, consistently with the principle upon which it was based.—(Hear, hear.) On the subject of time, after the discussion upon discussion which had already taken place, it would appear almost unnecessary to add a word. Notwithstanding what his Noble and Learned Friend had said in such contemptuous terms about the sugar famine that subject had occupied the attention of every Government for the last twenty years. Her Majesty's Government did not think it right, under these circumstances, to allow this subject to float on the surface of legislation, but to fix it on a firm and permanent basis. If, however, the matter had been brought forward on a motion, instead of a peti tion, there would have been an ample discussion given to the matter, and when the time arrived for that dis cussion it would be entered into.—(Hear.) Lord BROUGHAM said he rose merely to explain, that though he was in intimate eonnexron with the Anti-Slavery Society, he was not aware of the fact to which his Noble Friend the Marquis of Lansdowne had alluded. With respect to cotton, that was a question on which he was at issue with his Noble Friend. _ _ Several Bills were then forwarded a stage, and the House adjourned at Twenty minues after Seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 27. The SPEAKER took the Chair at ten minutes before Four o'clock. Mr. T. MAITLAND, the Solicitor-General for Scotland, was introduced by Mr. Fox Maule and the Lord-Advocate, and took the oaths and his seat upon his re-election for the county of Kircudbright. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time, and passed : Australian Agricultural Company. Barr's Estate Bill. Edinburgh Paving (No. 2). Fleming s Estate Bill. Londonderry and Enniskillen Extension Railway. Park's (Dr Yates's) Estate Bill. Philps' Charity Estate Bill. Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway. Stamford and Spalding Railway. ROYAL ASSENT. __ _ Sir Augustus Clifford, the — Usher of the Black Rod, appeared at the table, and summoned the House to the House of Peers to hear the Royal assent given to several public and private Bills. The SPEAKER, attended by several Members, then left the House, and upon his return, after an absence of forty minutes, the Right Hon. Gentleman read the titles of the Bills to which the royal assent had been given (for which see Lords' report). . - Lord John Russell entered the House, attired in deep mourning, at a quarter before five o'clock. SHEFFIELD AND LIIsfabLNSIIIRE JUNCTION RAILWAY. The Lords' amendments to this Bill were considered and agreed to. LANCASTER AND PRESTON JUNCTION _ RAILWAY. . On the bringing up of the report on this Bill, Mr. E. BULLER entered into a lengthened statement of the position of the company, and pointed out to the House that in the early stages of the Bill the promoters were desirous of introducing a clause allowing them to take high and extravagant fares, but the Committee to whom the Bill was referred, and of which he was chair • man, refused to sanction the clause, and an adjournment took place to enable the parties to reconsider their position. At the expiration, however, of the ad journment, the parties declined to make any altera tion in their rates and charges, and the Committee thereupon determined to make a special report to the House, recommending the House not to allow the Bill to proceed further. He moved that the report be con sidered that day six months. Mr. GREENE said that the Committee, having • passed the Bill, recommended that the Bill ought not to be passed.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee had no power to alter the toll, but. the Committee, being aware of their want of power, compel the company to come before Parliament to sanction the tolls. The preamble had been proved, and the standing orders had been complied with, but of what purpose was that, since the Committee did not wish to sanction that upon the recommendation contaieed in the which they were not called upon to determine. Now [ he ; therefore, rose to defend the decision of the Com o illcen'oer for r m 3 i p t e te v e t, , het not constituents, it was also natural to Lancaster I(B(1-I°r.N jrr Y een s el d ha ti d lat sta th te f' d very fairly that it was extremely natural for him to support his consti tuents' views. The Hon. Member supported the views of a canal in which his constituents were interested. s rs of his of tat House to support the But whilst it was natural for the Hon. Member to sup public ; and he (Mr. port the views hmeaevni Members b ri e , Aglionby) considered that they would be supporting the interests of the public by agreeing to the motion of the llon. Member, the chairman of the Committee to vvhotn this Bill was referred. That committee were unanimously interests of the of opinion that the tolls proposed to be charged by this ra i lway company were far too high, and after having de ,, ji you refuse to reduce the tolls to a de sired the promoters to reconsider their Bill they still easonable rate, you must seek some other re fused, and as long as they had so conducted themselves but, from the confusion o e u re r B l ie il r l. : ctl Y justified in slrmtaceo:nctiiiheierldorg.3au,Bttg;ee.hymEttobustet;Tmnarclttiostthueli H; (,i u rpa s o e z e l ), v , which prevailed in the House, his observations did not e ache gaery. Afte th r a fe ll w words from Mr. E. BULLER, The Howe then divided, when there appeared— For the adoption of the report 6 For the amendment 7 1 M a jority for the amendment —6s The re p or t was consequently lost. LONDON AND S OU TII - WESTERN RAILWAY. The Earl of LIN COLN moved that the Committee on the heLondon and South-We s t ern R a il way (London bridge Extension) Bill, have leave t o re p or t f or thwith ; and that the standing orders, Nos. 119. 120, and 139, report be taken into consi • if the am en d e d pr i nts h ave b een deposited with the do er -ke epers at least the day previ ous.—Agreed to. NOTICES OF MOTION. d b be r suspended, atieb on Tuesday, and the said Ittr. 5HAR24.46.1 4 CRAWFORD gave notice that on the motion for going into Committee on the Rateable Properties (Ireland) Bill being made, he should move that it be an instruction to the Committee to make provision that the county and poor-rate be levied upon the same valuation ipsteaci of two separate valuations, provHed by the present Bill ; also that landlords be made chargeable to the county-rate in the same propor tion that they were liable to pay for the poor-rate. Mr. HUME gave notice, that to-morrow week he should move a resolution to the effect, that to prevnt drunkenness and intemperance amongst the working classes, it was the duty of the Legislature to open the British Museum, the National Gallery, and similar public places on Sundays, at such hours after morning service that gin palaces and public-houses were allowed to be open.—(Hear.) THE STATE PAPERS. Mr. E. DENISON wished to know whether the State Papers could be put in a more convenient form for use than they were at present. He found that the estimate for printing a volume (Class A), was 5741., and that the expense of printing 2,000 copies was over 4,0001. Lord PALMERSTON said that the subject had oc cupied his attention, and that he did hope, next year, to be able to have them put in a much smaller form. COURT OF COMMON PLEAS. Mr. STUART WORTLEY desired to know if her Majesty's Government intended to take any measures for opening the Court of Common Pleas. Tho ATTORNEY GENERAL said that he could not pledge himself to pass any measure this session, but he would do the utmost to pass such a measure which he considered to be most useful and necessary. THE WELLINGTON STATUE. On the motion of Sir F. TRENCH. a copy of the report from the sub-Committee of the Wellington Mili tary Memorial, inclosed in the letter from his Grace the Duke of Rutland, K.G., to the Viscount Melbourne, dated 14th of January, 1839, was ordered to be pre sented to the House. SUPPLY OF FOOD IN IRELAND. In reply to Mr. O'CONNELL, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the people in the distressed districts of Ireland had been relieved by means of employment given by the public, and also by the people in their immediate neighbour hoods. Government had also furnished supplies of food at a cheap rate in various parts of Ireland. He con curred in what the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said about the beneficial effects of the relief af forded to Ireland, for, from all accounts which he had had the opportunity of seeing since he had the honour to hold the situation he then filled, he was impressed with the Beneficial effect of that relief in saving the people from the evil of famine and pre serving the peace of the country. It must at the same tiine be observed, that much as the measure might be beneficial in affording a temporary relief, it must not be imagined that it was to become a permanent system, and thus induce the people to rely on the Government permanently for food, for such a feeling would be a great evil to the country. In some parts that feeling was already beginning to grow up, and therefore the Government, thinking it necessary to mark that it was not its intention to continue the system, had given instructions that the supply was to be rtopped as much as possible on the 15th of August. It was rat first the intention to stop the supply on the Ist of August, but that period was extended to the 15th, in order that there might be no pressure on the people. The Commissary-General in Cork had written a letter to him, a part of which he would take the liberty of reading to the House. It was dated the 12th of July, and stated that considerable consignments of Indian corn were on their way from England to that country. There were half a dozen vess?ls in the port, and if their cargoes were left much longer on board, they would spoil from the heat. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) felt that they must be unwilling to land their cargoes, as they could not enter into competition with the Government, but if the Government reduced its supplies, it would give an opportunity for private enterprise to pour food into the country. Mr. O'CONNELL thought they ought to be careful as to withdrawing the relief from the Irish people at the present time. Before the middle of September they might find that the measure was still as necessary for the preservation of the people from famine as it had already been. Mr. HUME wished to know whether there would be any objection on the part of the Government to furnish a return of the amount which had been expended in re lief of the Irish people—in money, in provisions, and in work. It was desirable that they should have this re turn placed on the table, to know whether it would be be necessary still to go on affording relief. Mr. P. SCROPE was desirous of asking the Chan cellor of the Exchequer a question. It was whether it was his intention to afford any explanation of the mode in which the people of Ireland had been relieved. They had been relieved partly by grant from the Go vernment, and partly by private contributions. Now what he was anxious to know was, what the amount of private contributions were to those supplied by the Govern ment, in order to know whether the relief afforded by pri vate individuals was at all in proportion to the wealth of these individuals or the property which they pos sessed? The public could not be satisfied unless these details were supplied, in order to know whether private contributions were at all equal to the distresses to be relieved. Mr. F. FRENCH said that 100,000/. had been placed at the disposal of the treasurers of the counties in Ireland, in order to be appropriated, under the present Tenant and Grand Juries Act. No part of that he found was in existence at the present moment. The distress was still great, and he wished to know really whether all had been distributed, for he could scarcely credit that it had been so. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said with regard to the question of the Hon. Member for Montrose, he had no objection to make the return re• quired, and he was also perfectly ready to lay upon the table of the House an account of private contri butions, but he was not prepared to say that he would give the names of the contributors, specifying the amount they had subscribed. He might remark, how ever, that the landed interest of Ireland generally had come forward and liberally assisted Government in re lieving the distress of that country. With regard to the last question of the Hon. Member behind him, he begged to state that the whole of the 100,000/. had been fully distributed, as well as 30,0001. more under the second Act passed this session. He could assure the Rouse that the attention of Government had been closely directed to the state of the crops in Ireland. They received reports from all parts of Ireland day by day, and the attention of Government was constantly directed to the subject. He trusted, however, that Government would never be called upon to take measures to avert any coming evil, but never theless they should be prepared to act with vigour. Mr. HORSMAN wished to ask the Noble Lord the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in case the sugar resolutions passed, they would take effect without waiting for the Bill to pass? Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to say that he intended to take the same course that was pursued with respect to the corn-laws. THE SUGAR DUTIES. A number of petitions were presented for and agains the proposed Government measure in regard to the sugar duties. Amongst others Mr. GIBSON presented a petition from the di rectors of the Commercial Association of Manchester in favour of the proposed Government measure respecting sugar, and praying that the measure may pass intoa law. Mr. HOPE presented a retition from Manchester against the proposed Governmentschemerespecting sugar. The petitioners prayed that no measure would receive the sanction of the House which would not allow them time to procure additional labour for their plantations, and which would not permit them to compete on equal terms with sugar admitted for the use of home made spirits. Mr. MACAULAY presented a petition from the in habitants of Edinburgh, in favour of the proposed mea sure respecting sugar. Lord JOHN RUSSELL having moved the order of the day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of Ways and Means on the Sugar Duties, Lord G. BENTINCK rose and said, that in moving the resolution which was in the Speaker's hands as an amendment to his leaving the chair, he regretted, while he asked the indulgence of the House, that the motion had not fallen into abler hands. He felt deeply the responsibility of being an advocate of the •intererests of those great mercantile speculators in the East and West Indies, and that other greater cause connected with the slaves of the African race. He regretted that on this occasion those interests should have a less able advocate than they had ever had before. He felt confident that his Noble Friend at the head of the Government would give him credit for truth when he said that he brought forward this motion with no hostile feeling to wards her Majesty's Ministers.—(Hear, hear.) On this 0CC56.032, tha question of the sugar enti , 2s and that of elavery had been mixed up with a vote of confidence in her ltojes! - y's Ministers, but he could truly say that on this 0c.T0. , .i0n, though ha did not mean to say that he could place his confidence in her Majesty's Minis ters, it was not his intention to mix up with this question any considerations of confidence in her Majesty's Mi nisters.—(Cheers.) Indeed, he felt that, on a question of such great interests as those of the East and West India planters, and above all on a question which concerned the liberty and happiness of, the African race, it would not be proper to mix up with this question any party consideration. But while, on the one hand, he disclaimed introducing any motion hostile to the Govern ment, he must vindicate himself from the attacks which had been made upon him and his party.—(Hear, hear.) He could not deny, and he did not moan to deny, that the effect of the emancipation of slaves was Indies; he much to diminish the produce of the West he could not deny that whilst, for some years, during the six years previous to the emancipation of slaves in the West Indies, the average produce was between 190 ; 900 and 200,000 tons of sugar. That production, since the emancipation of slaves was completed, had fallen off to such an extent that at one period it did not exceed 170,000 tons, whilst it was admitted that the produce of the West Indies did not exceed 143,000 tons. In like manner it was the natural consequence of this falling elf in sugar that the prices had risen. —(Hear, hear.) He found, when he took the average of prices, which had been furnished to him by the Grocers' Company, that the six years previous to the emancipation of slaves, and the twelve years since, the average difference of the prices had been no less than 18s. per cwt. He had taken the two periods of July and March in each of those eighteen years, and he found that the average price of the six years whilst slavery was in use did not exceed 275. and some pence per cent., whilst the average prices of the last ten years amounted to 375. per cwt. He had, therefore, stated the case fairly to the House. The Noble Lord had stated that 100,000 tons of sugar could be obtained from the West Indies, but that _he (Lord George Bentinck) thought was an over sanguine calculation of the produce :....r .~ to be expected from that quarter. It had also been stated that large quantities of sugar would be had from the East Indies, but to that expectation he would reply that the inhabitants of those territories were enormous consumers of sugar, and when it was cheap they con sumed the most of the produce, and scarcely any of it was exported to this country.—(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, when sugar was dear, they allowed it to he ex ported in considerable quantities, but not before. Now he had it on the authority of Messrs. Allan and Duppa, the great merchants and sugar brokers of Calcutta, that in this enormous extent of territory, comprising a popula tion of one hundred millions of inhabitants, when sugar was at the price of eight rupees the inhabitants consumed it largely, but when it was 11 or 111 rupees it was exported, and not before. This showed that the rate of price regulated the amount of exportation. He had it also on the authority of Messrs. Allan and Duppa, as well as some others he had conversed wAh on the subject, that the natives of the East had consumed no less, in some years, than .500,000 tons of sugar, but that quantity in other years was reduced by the price and demand for it from this country. He was assured by those who were best able to give him an opinion upon the subject that there was every reason to suppose that next year the importation of sugar from the East Indies would amount to 100,000 tons more than last year.— (Hear.) Such, indeed, was the abundance of the present season that those who had plantations were told by their agents that the increased production of their estates above that of last year would be no less than 30 per cent. He had also other information on the subject from which he gathered that several engines of 242 horse power, and 15 engines of more than 180 horse power, were in the course of erection in a district, which in 1844 manufactured no sugar at all. At this place the sugar manufactured last season was 2,000 tons, but this year the quantity was likely to be increased to 9,000 tons. This was in a small district on the banks of the Ganges. But he had other information on the sub ject. He was told that there was a company called the Richmond Company, who had just expended 70,0001. in the construction of engines for the manufacture of sugre in the East Indies. The next letter which he received was from Buhratnpooter, and was from a gent!eman connected with the East India House ; it was written in a familiar strain, and the writer desired that his name should be concealed ; it was dated the 22d of May last. It stated that on 8,0001. he had cleared 1,3001. in a season ; had built ene set of sugar works, end was " well on" in a second. He had also produced four tons of sugar from an acre, which was an immense crop. He was informed that the native cane was no thicker than a man's finger ; while the Otahetan cane was as thick as a man's arm, and was of a superior description in all respects. He felt assured that if protection were continued, and in ducements given to the British planters, a great deal more capital would be invested in the cul tivation of sugar before the expiration of five years, at which period it was proposed to reduce slave grown sugar to the level of British grown sugar ; before the expiration of those five years the pro duction and exportation would be largely increased. A. letter from Madras, which he had received from Messrs. Scott and Bell, the largest sugar-bakers in Lon don, stated that there could be no doubt that the quantity of sugar this year from Madras would amount to 10,000 tons, and there was every probability that the sugar from Madras would next year be 15,000 tons; and, judg ing from the production of the last three years, it was difficult to say what quantity would be produced in future. He had stated on a former occasion that the produce of the Mauritius this year was 46,000 tons, and with what had not yet been shipped, it would amount to 49,000 tons. It was no longer a matter of doubt that the sanguine expectations of those who counted that when slaver)/ was put an end to is the West Indies the free produce would double the amount produced by slaves had been bitterly disappointed.—(Hear, hear.) It was known that the heat of the climate relaxed their energies, and even the negroes themselves could not be induced to work by the large wages which were offered to them. He would submit to the House a comparative statement of the produce of sugar by 300 slaves in Lousiana, and the produce of sugar of 300 free labourers in the Mauritius. The statement came from the different parties. The produce of the 300 slaves in Lousiana was 1,500 tons, and the produce of the free labourers was 5,000 tons. What with the favourable climate and soil of the Mauritius, and its being so well adapted for the cultiva tion, it was clear it could successfully compete with those colonies who were obliged to employ free-labour, and were not so well situated in respect to natural advan tages. It was not true that the West India planters would be able to compete with the slave-labour of Cuba or Brazils, and therefore he maintained that the colonies who were obliged to employ free-labour were entitled to protection. In estimating the probable produce of sugar, his Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) did not precisely state the quantity that might be expected from the Mauritius. He calculated that 240,000 tons would be imported from the colonies, and he expected that, with what there was in bond, there would be 20,000 tons of foreign slave-grown sugar, and 20,000 tons of free .grown sugar—making a total importation of 280,000/. As he had already stated, the price of the ar ticle in the East Indies regulated the exportation of it, and even then the freight to this country was from 41. 10s. to 61. 10s. Now the sugars from Brazil and Cuba, he was informed, could be imported for 30s. a ton, or at the utmost 2/. 10s. So that independent of the advantage of cheapness of freightage, the Brazils and Cuba had the advan tage of slave labour. It was, therefore, impossible that the East Indies could compete with either Cuba or Brazils. There could be no doubt that the effect of the free importation of Brazil and Cuba sugar would be to lower the price of sugar, the produce of the British Colonies 6s. per cwt. ; and with this reduction in price it would not pay . the British planter to keep his estates in a state of cultivat ion. His Noble Friend calculated that 280,000 tons would be required for the supply of the present year. Well, if they assumed that 180,000 tons would come from the West Indies, 100,000 from the East and 55,000 from Madras, the aggregate wou!d make mare than 280,000. But he greatest consumption which this country had experiened was only 246,000 tons, and it was perfectly absurd, with the figures he had mentioned before them, to say they required to let in slave grown sugar, to insure a proper supply of that article for the people of this country. There was at the present moment a stock on hand of 71,000 tons, which exceeded by about 10,000 tons the stock on hand in the corresponding period of last year. In setting the increase against the smaller amount, the state of things would be exactly the same this year as they were last. He was not aware that there was such a want of our manufac tures in the markets of the West Indies, for, according to the last accounts, it appeared that they were glutted with the ma nufactures oithis country.—( Hear, hear.) They had already ruined the natives of the West Indies by their manufactures, and by encouraging the trade of Birmingham, Manchester, and the manufacturing districts. On the grounds that he had laid before the House, he must submit that his motion should be adopted. He would now come to the question of revenue. His Noble Friend calculated that by his scheme, as contrasted with that of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer, he should gain no less than 725,5291., by the dif ference between his proposal and that of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Really he was quite at a loss to understand how his Hon. Friend arrived at that conclusion. He presumed that if he let in so many tons of British plantation sugar at 14/. per ton, it would not produce more than under the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite. The effect of his Hon. Friend's measure would be that as slave-grown sugar was ad mitted at a lower rate of duty it would take the place of free foreign sugar. On these grounds, therefore, he was against the policy which was proposed. There was no just ground for the alteration in the sugar duties. Above all, in the last week of July, when half the members of the House of Commons ' had gone out of town, it was not proper to bring forward such a sweeping proposition. He had already shown that he had no desire to embarrass the Government.—(Hear, hear.) The crop could not be increased at present, and the profits must go into the pockets of the Bratilian merchants instead of into those of the English consumer. He had many communications from men engaged in the trade, which stated that they who were rich now, should these measures pass, would be im poverished in a month. He considered, therefore, that there ought to be some justice—some mercy—shown to these men. They had made engagements which could not be recalled, trusting to the faith and honour of the Parliament. He re membered that his Hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland observed, that things were coming to such a pass that no man's property was safe.—( Hear, hear.) He conjured them, therefore, to be careful over the interests of those who had trusted them. Mr. Huskisson, in 1831, opposed the sugar question as brought in by the then Chancellor of the Exchequer. He (Lord George Bentinck) supported Mr. Huskisson in that opposition, but he was defeated. He was consistent in opposition, and he did not wish to embarrass the Government. The question for the English people now to decide was, whether they would have sugar two-thirds of a penny less in every pound with slavery, or sugar two-thirds of a penny dearer with freedom. They would not beeitate to decide. The question was well put by the Honour able Member for Cork —" Take a larger loaf with a father's curse," and he would ask were the people of England tired of their exertions in the cause of freedom 2—(Hear, hear.) Did they repent the 20,000,0001. which they paid to redeem the negroes? He had never heard that such was the case. Were the people of England aware that they main tained 7,000 men and 7CO guns to put down the infamous slave traffic? The Noble Lord then gave a frightful account of the treatment of slaves employed in the manufacture of sugar, and said that Mr. Buxton, when speaking, sixteen years ago, of the infernal traffic in slaves, stated that it consumed 250,000 persons in one year, and, that Lord Aberdeen, him self, in the year 1844, stated that in hit opinion the average number of slaves imported from Africa to the coast of South &merlin, and the Spanish West Indic'', was not less than 100,009 r.-year. He asked , ehether it was right that re should continue to suffer the natives of Africa to he butchered and lashed to death for the purpose of Holingenabn the West India planters to amass splendid fortunes?—( ) The people of England wished to obtain their food without in justice, if they were then to have the sugars, let them eat and drink the sugars in the remembrance that the blood of the negro had been shed to obtain it.—( Cheers.) He did not believe there was a man in England who grudged the 20,000,0001. he had paid for the emancipation of the slave ; and he did not believe they cared for the half-million more which the country had to pay annually fcr the suppression of the slave-trade. It seemed to him that the arguments brought forward were nothing more than the old argument, where it says, if we arc to be hanged for a lamb, we may as well be hanged for a sheep—(Laughter and cheers)—that because the people of England have made the sacrifice, they would continue so to do. 20,000,0001. had been paid during the last twelve years, 24,000,000/. besides, and half a million more every year for the suppression of the slave-trade. Ile humbly trusted that the mighty sacrifice which they had made, and which they wished to continue to make, might be accepted, and might be recorded above, side by si,le with the widow's mite, as the offering—the free-will offering— of the 28,060,000 of generous warm-hearted Englishmen, who constitute the great, the virtuous, the religicus, and the Christian people who inhabit the British Isles. (The Noble Lord resumed his seat amid loud and prolonged cheering front the Protectionist benches. ) The NOBLE Loan then moved the resolution of which he had given notice. The resolution havin g been read from the chair, The CHANCELLO R of the EXCHEQUER said that, on the present occasion, the Noble Lord deserved sincerity for the course he took. The course his Learned Friend had taken he would propose to follow, which was the supply of sugar and the effect upon the slave trade by the introduction into this country of slave-grown sugar. The Noble Lord had traced the history of the sugar question in all its details in a manner which he could not undertake to equal. He stated that when the East and West India colonies were not sufficient to supply the country, he and his colleagues had opened fresh ports, and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) hoped to show to the . House that all the consideration which induced the Government to Wroclaw foreign free-labour sugar • - into rd o s existed et the present period. In 11843, the consumptio:: of sugar wa.` Jess than in 1841. The consta.llP :)er cwt. then in June last, and' lion of last year oc.fr that of _ 1843 was 36,000 tons. The rite at this moment is higher by 4s. the average of three preceding mot a ss. 3d. higher than. the preceding quarter. Mr. GladstoCe S had estimizted the con sumption of free labour sugar at 20,0 0 tom, wi:ereas the• whole, in fact, instead of 20,000 was undei - 4,000 tons. Last. qu'irter the consumption of free labour sug.iir had been only 118 tons, and in the five quarters precedine i, had been on ;v 4,113 tons instead of 20,000 tons. The amount of revenue from free labour sugar produced, ending sth April last, was 45,000 1 . less than was estimated in the preceding year. H e believed that if the price of sugar was law, it was alinastim possible to place a limit on the consump tion of that article. The quantity of sugar consumed had always varied with the price of sugar. The following table will show the ,effect of the prices upon the consumption: — Consumption per head. 151bs. In the year 1840 Price. ~....... 48s. Od. ••.• • .• 1845 1846 1846, 30th June, 365. y; d. The great body of the people of this country consumed a con siderable quantity less than could be supposed. If every individual in this country were to consume 201bs. pee head, the consump tion would be: considerably greater than stated tcr be by the , Noble Lord the Member for Lynn. The total consumption this country for the year ending April 5, 1846, was :152, 000 ' tons. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequ er ) had taken great pains to find out the amount of sugar likely to be im ported; the highest amount he had received was 255,000 to ws He had received other estimates, such as 250,000 tons, 225,00 0 tons, 230,000 tons ; and the estimate he had received from ant Antwerp merchant was 220,000 tons. The Noble Lord the Member for Lynn had said, that 240,000 tons would be im ported from the East Indies ; for the comfort of the West India growers, he would say, that he did not think it at all possible that such a quantity could be produced from the East Indies. He, therefore, now showed that they could not look to the East Indies for a supply, for the price of that sugar would be as high, if not higher. than the present prices. With regard to free-labour sugar, the highest estimate of the importation into this country was 20,C00 1 tons, but he thought the amount nearest the truth was 15,030 tons. The amount imported last year was only 4,00 0 ' tons. It was well known that the greater part of the sugar from Java went into the Dutch market. But taking the whole supply at 12,000 tons, the largest amount of colonial and free labour sugar would not exceed 250, 000 tons. What their nen sumption would be newt year he could not say, but his seas, that if a larger supply were afforded to the people of this opinion country at a lower price, there would be a greater Ccrlsomption than at present. It was computed. by all acquainteo: with the subject that the price should be 455. per cwt. t o g ive a con sumption. That quality of sugar was at present 603. the market. His Noble Friend said a good deal about the rise' of foreign slave-grown sugar. It had already risen in the Con-' !inental markets, party owing to the deficiency of the crop and partly owing to the anticipation of having the privileges of importing it into this country. Bat latterly it had fallen, even since these measurer were announced ; and he thought it very unlikely that it would rise to any great extent. (The Right Hon Gentleman here read two letters from commercial firms, to show that 21s. was an amount of duty which would allow a large quantity to come in, and bring down the price to such a rate as to allow it to come into general consumption.) This duty would not only, continued the Right Hon. Gentleman, brine in a larger supply, but also reduce the price. The increase of consump tion last year was 42,000 tons ; and why they should not look to a consumption proportionably great this year he could not see. He had now shown that the estimates of the Noble Lord, as to supply, were too large, and his estimate of the consumption too small ; and he had also shown that by fixing the duties at the rate of the proposed measure, a proportionate increase in the consumption might be expected. He would now speak of the question of revenue. The state of the revenue up to the present year was prosperous, but he watt afraid they could not look so sanguinely to the future. He was sorry to see by a circular from Manchester that stagnation in the trade prevailed to a very great extent. His Hon. Friend said on a former occasion that he would wish to know what the income and expenditure of the years 1847 and 1848 would be, presuming this measure was in full operation. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stated that, deducting the China money from the income of this. year, the remainder would be 50,950,000/. and de ducting from the expenditure of this year an item whish might not occur again, an item of 200,000'., the income would be 50,673,0001. at the present moment. But, adding to that, the expenditure necessary for the maintenance of the fresh constabulary, namely, 175,0001„ and adding 283,000/. for purposes of a similar nature—adding one half-year"' expenditure for the maintenance of the Poor-law establish ments and officers in the country ; also one half-year's ex penditure for the prosecution of prisoners, and for their main tenance when convicted (for which purpose one half year's expenditure only had been voted in the esti mates for this year, and for which it would be ne cessary to vote a whole year's estimate) supposing that the expenditure would be the same as it was estimated by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, there would be added to next year's estimates 628,500 L, making in all a permanent expenditure of 51,302,0001., and leaving, supposing the' income and expenditure to be made as he had stated, a dei ciency of 352 000/. That being solved the House would see how necessary it was that from some source or another addi tional means of income should come. He did not see in the course of the past sessions any such prospect of reduction of expenditure as would justify the cabinet an believing that it would not be necessary to provide additional resources. Let them look at the estimates. Let them compare the estimates of the last ten years, from the year 1835 to 1845, and they were not estimates prepared by any gentleman on that side of the Hons. He took the year 1845, because it excluded any in ct ease made this year, and which the Hon. Member for Coventry vented inclined to put. down for next year. Let them compare the expenditure of 1845. and they would find in the charges on the consolidated fund, that other duties had increased 492,0001. The expenditure of the army, the expenditure of the navy, and the rrdnanee bed increased 4,700,C00/. The. increase on miscellaneous services had been 582,0001., so that the whole increase between 1835 and 1845 had been no less than 5,0e1,0001. lie confessed that he did not see any disposi tion or tendency in the estimates of the present year to reduce that expenditure, especially with reference to the army. He did not think that, when they considered the hardships of the colonial service for our soldiery, the in crease of our colonies, and the necessity of providing means of defence for China and New Zealand, that they could see any probability, with justice to the soldiery, of diminishing the numbers of the army, which was at present exposed ass ser vice such as no other army in Europe was enduring.—( Hear.) He did not think, in common justice to the soldiers, and the maintenance of protection to the colonies, that he could sug gest any reduction of the standing force of the country. The Hon. Gentleman, the Member: for Tavistock, wished to put down corporal punishment, and another lion. Member said that it would be necessary to increase the pay of the army ; and there were various other means of expenditure suggested, which rendered it impossible to reduce the expenditure of the military establishment. It was impossible to reduce the expen diture caused by the steam-vessels, and other classes of ships with which it ha , l been thought necessary to increase the navy, and which caused additional expense. An Hon. and Gallant Member was anxious to increase the provision for worn-out officers; it might be necessary to increase the pay for active service in the navy—the new ordnance and the improvements in gunnery required a large expenditure, as it was necessary to have very heavy guns. A large amount of expenditure• might, before long, be incurred in providing harbours of re fuge for the steam-vessels which had been lately built. He had been in hopes that more had been done than he had found executed, though he knew that there had been great obstacles in the way of improvement. It would be absurd to attempt to conceal from the House the necessity of consi derable expenditure upon that head. In the fortification of the coast and the colonies the introduction of steam navigation had involved the necessity of a great expense, for they were no longer safe as they were before from sudden attack, and it was, therefore, necessary that the forces of this country should be put in a state to repel invasion- He did not exactly mean invasion, but those inroads and attacks to which it was impossible for this country to submit, and which it would be imp ossible to repel without taking proper means of fortification . He had come to the miscellaneous estimates. The increase in them was of such a nature that he was sure that the House would be willing to pay the tax required for the purpose. There were many other subjects of improvement pressed on by various Members of that House, involving the necessity of an increased expenditure under that head. There was one subject which weighed very heavily on his mind, and that was the necessity of providing in some way for secondary punishment in this country. The evils and expense arising from transportation had already been fully entered into, and he would say nothing of them • but he thought that in some way it was nec essar y to provide for the inflicting of secondary punishment, and that could not be done effectually without a large expenditure. Under all those heads he was afraid that they must look forward to an in creased expenditure—at any rate they could not look for any reduction, but rather to an increase, for which it was abs olutely necessary to provide adequate sums. Mr. Gladstone , w h e n tla his Noble Friend brought forward his resolution re ductionagainst sconceethe otthninokvietryproebxatbrale ww hma et ho .Tatf Nobleduty mold Friend n b e sugar, couldremoved,said n h cl e e r s s g it that Is eYt o' h ; aet that suggested to avoid its renewal. He (the Chancellor of the or E d se i Exchequer). ;ter/ estilegohutgihnt sayingthat his h a Friend sho wed id n that the Income Tax could be removed at the end of three years. It was said a year and-a-half ago that it could be re moved, and in the second year there was a surplus of some 3(10,0001., and now, he was sorry to say, that even with its continuance, a deficiency of 350,000/. was to be apprehended ; and therefore his Friend was justified in saying that the pro bability of its being taken off was small. He did not know how far the resources of the country might go ; or how far, under the increased development. of industry which would be occasioned by measures which had passed this sessions, they would progress, he did not pretend to say ; but this he said, that looking to the present state of the revenue and expenditure—to entertain any view, however distant, of removing the Income Tax—to indulge it, that hope, it was moat essentially necessary to increase the sources from which the income of the country was derived, in order to maintain the credit of the country for the payment ef her debts to those establishments necessary for her honour end her name. He did not know if he should make any further statement on the sugar question, because he depended on an increased con sumption of sug ar. Let them take 240,000 tons at I , lq. per cwt. duty, and that would give 3,460,0001. ; and if they gave 15,000 tons for free-labour at 21s. per cwt., it would give an addition of 315,000/., making 3,775,0001. That would, however, only be 255,000 tons of sugar ; but he hoped to get 200,04 X) tons of slave-grown sugar, which would raise the slim to 4,195,000/. If, as he was inclined to hope, they would have a supply of slave-grown sugar beyond all the colonial supply, of 30,000 tons, and wh ch he believed they !night have, they should hive an income of 4405,000/. Ile hopiel be had now disposed of the two first branches of his Noble Friend's argument, anal he would pro ceed to the 'ast, which had reference to the raising and en couragement of slave grown sugar, and which his Friend had stated with so much pathos. It was to increase the consumption of sugar, and to benefit the revenue, that it was expedient to adopt the measures proposed by her Majesty's Government, and he dial not think that they would have obtained either of these objects if they had not gone so far as they had done. It would not only provide as large a supply as the sugar pro ducing world could alforel, but it would produce as large an increase as any other measure that could be proposed. ( Hear, bear.) Some gentlemen Lad wished that they could have reduced the duties to 10s. per cwt. on the produce of the colonies, and to 15s. per cwt, on slave-grown sugar. fie did not. think (and lie trusted that the House would agree with him) that under the present state of the revenue they would have been justified in running So 'great a risk as that. Ile did not believe that there was then sugar enough to create, at lOs duty, any thing like the revenue he anticipated from the present measure. The time would, however, come when the in creased supply of sugar to this country would render it im possible again to reauce the duties on sugar, but in the presen state of things it would be madness to attempt to go beyond what they had already done. His Noble Friend then cause to - the last topic, the encouragement of the slave-trade... Ith was impossible not to admire and respect the oPilliP.t i rE, he gave on the subject ; nevertheless, hartowinii,l,l;e at descriptions of the slave trade as n0w,0414111 1 1 1 meat they received, in Cuba, they t til present measure tended to ?MOO • maw. ••• r wit eCting •e the I;sdale pantie bire. lock•