The Sun. — London, England, 1812-02-11 00:00:00

Walls built tip by tort tte ‘Votild ttoti, state the different 'Sums, Which he had drawn far On this account—he world stars the details if the House thought it necessary. 1 _Here there was a cry ° f No, No!] The sum drawn for-was large, but when the House were informed of the immense • size of this building, the largest he believed inha bited by any individual, they would not think it extravagant. His Honourable Friend opoosite'to him (Mr. Adair), w ho h a d seen th e p a l ace , wou ld, he sure, confirm this par. of his • stetenneo, and would satisfy the House that the expence in curred in the decorations, or furniture, was not treater than was absolutely necessary. - In addition to the. expenceyurtiivhrng of building rasa palace, was that of ; an d be was obliged to send for the Irili tule horn this countrs. The sum necessary for thi s Pur poSe (t he expellee Of 'carriage and freight . " 2 gU being very great), amounted to 58.171. • The , 17 " c hers for every shilling - ot these sums - were de.. )tosited in the* -F o reign Office. He* had to state; that when his safety was arranged, it was under !flood that he shetild &Ida house for him to reside I n w ithout any expelicc.io himself ; but that not being t h e case, it had been deemed reasonable that he sh ou l d he rein - lbw-set( the expellee he was put to n Procering wie. In this opinion the succeedipg "ernmenta with ,whom he corresponded concur red. He had in addeinn to draw for a sum of 4101 • in consequence ot - the length of time that Was occupied this country in examining tos ac count ; that tam, therefore, became .lue for inte rest of the money advanced by the B tnkei to Con sotantinople, bef o re' the mon e y wa s r,i n iffrd t ram thi n Britain H e - was sure th e H on • e wou ld not it 41 k het that sum should he defrayed by him, •as s Incurred from the cause which be had stat•-d. e "ad also to pay iitterest, for other money ad ea teed by'his .Banker to him, but he hail taken hip to , eparate all the sums that were advanced on f private account, nom that which was advanced ~7„,the public sete ice The second hcatt \kris that st 2 E xtraordinary Disbursements. The first item las f or M.esengets, 31331. gs. Bd. He did not for Messengers ; but 'upon I is arr,val at ,Constanti th°Ple, he put the estaolishment of Messengers upon . tt most economical plan. He did not• permit fr ' e ' l "o be upon -the usual' footing of Messengers ; °4l England, but ascertained the expence of their aca°urrhes, and paid them accordingly. He had' to ()11 a vele extensive correspondence not only • England, but with Russia, Vienna, Bagdad, It was M or e a , Albania, and other pikes which st was not necessary to enumerate. He had also to tl 3t e, that in c o n sequ e nc e o f t he gr e a t i nsec urity o f . r 'e roads, l ie cou ld s , arce l y ever carry on hi s cur ' L s Pondence by th e p os t, b u t was o bli ge d t o sen d' , e ssettgers. He therefore ho l ed the House ° °ld not think. the expence too iarge. Tee 11-: • ext item he . had to state was that of presents a't,, i mmey a given to J igp, anissariec was necessary state, it a Fore Moister co lt in ld not obta an 11 ' 6 1 - we with th e Minist ers o f th e P o rte with out ti l l 'on every occ a s io n pre•enta to %help— . e sum charged tor this v.-Tose was I 899:. 10S. 50. might be suppo • e d t h a t as h e gave, s+ , he also re. ce. ~.I , ` ed presents in rteurn ; but this was not 1 ; 1 ", he had never teceied a single ple•ent, except to v° Pelisses from iii- Sultan; which ea, the cos (4l' of tat Court. The orrign Ministers el ev e r Courts constantly rereo F ed plesent, lie, hews . e t, liad never d one so; b ut h e claimed no merit 0• 41 this circumstance, is his immediate predeces r°r' Mr. Dintertiond, -had first put en end to that h'id also been the custom of the Fo , ministers to receive considerable sums of mo 1--ey from 'hose persons w ho w e r e wid e r the protec :" of the Mission, b u t h e h a d never rece i ve d an y ..teh su m ; but here agiin he cl a im e d no merit, 1 . 1 1 - Drunimond had aseteabolisbed that praelice, e had therefore distinctly to state, that although r e had matte pruseitts to others, he never had in a ogle instance / received one himself. The. next ' il l was 18631. 12s. gd. for the expence of Drago e .n former times, when our' Missions to Constantinople were rather of a commercial than a Political nature, it was the custom of the Levant Co mpany to pay for the Dragomans. When, how !ters our rel a ti ons w ith th e P orte too k anot h er t urn ,, Levant Company retuaed any longer to pay the g Dr agomans, and that expence naturally fell upon ` zov ernment, and he of course wag - bound to pay .Pe in in the most economical manner that he could. he various sums he h a d enumerate d amoun t e d t o above 30,0001. not one single shilling of which trued through his habds. The• Banker at Constan nople advanced the money, and he examined the ~;reotahts and regularly, transmitted the vouchers ° ' ll e. The next item was for extraordinary ex r.„,ences. When he went on the Mission, his salary .was fixed at 6,4521. but he soon found that it was Impossible for him to live upon that salary, for his e4PQnces amounted to double that. He immediately inf ormed his Court of that circumstance. Being Un able to attend to the details of his establishment, • : requested his friend the :Russian Minister, • De Itelinski, to examine the state of his expen-' lt ure, and-to give his opinion whether or not it from M. De Italinski, stating that he thought his establiShmeilt much too small ; in particular, he %ai d it was deficient in' valets and livery servants, as greater degree of shew and splendour was neces sary in that place. He also added, that as the Price of every article was daily increasing, his ex- Pen ces would anntfally exceed 150,000 piastres, ab out [0,0001.] Finding that he could not live U pon his salary, he wrote home, to state, that 'r his salary was not increased, he could • nut ~r e4l ain at Constantinople. Another circumstance p t ich increa se d his expence was, that as Sir A. get was about to leave Vienna, he, Mr. Arbuth - ha° t , was desired to go to that Court to transact bu slues; fur him, instead of going to Constantinople I " a frigate, as at fi rst i n t en ded. When he arrived at I, i erma, circumstances rendered it necessary for Sir Arthur Paget not' to quit that Court ; but he had b een put to great expence in travelling over the Con :went with the whole of his family, and in remain egfor some time at Vienna, where he was detain „ While he was at Vienna, he had written to C onstantinople to procure a house, as the Palace was - not completed; he had also given direlions for pro- Curing a countryresidence, which was necessary: He - also gave orders for the proper number of servants to be engaged. When lie left Vienna to go to Con atantinople, he applied to Lord Nelson, who corn- Manded in the Mediterranean, tor a frigate, but he • Mild net spate One. The ekrieriCe - whist: he hncl incurred in travelling across the Continent, and keeping up his establishment at Constatinople, was so great ; that he found. he had incurred a very large . debt with- his agent in England, and that it was irn possible to go on with the salary allowed to him;' he therefore drew upon Government for 5,7321. 4s. 2d. for his extraordinary expences since his departille from this country—that was, 19101. a year for the three years that he was employed upon his mission, making his whole salary while he was employed on this mission 83621. a year. •He 'could assure the House that he had, during the whole time he was thus employed, lived as economically as possible ; yet he was under the necessity of . pending, every shilling of his private income, besides incurring a debt of 30001., and he was now actually paying the debts which he had • there contracled. He was not making any com plaints, or loaking for compensatiion. He. could assure the House he felt more pleasure in detailing these losses, than be should have in. stating that his private fortune had received any increase_ from his public missions. (Here there was a general ory of Hear, hear ! 'from' all sides of the House.) When he undertook this assl' , n, he had been told that he was going upon a new service--that they did not know what salary to allow him, but that care should be taken that he Should not be ruined. He had not Ay zone beyond his salary on this occa sion, but, if be• were to go into particulars, he could shew, if necessary, that upon the several missions on which he had been employed, he had speet several thousand pounds. more than he had received He isid not say that he been ruins-d, • btu he could say that if he had now all the sums which he had spent upon his missions beyond the salary he received, he should have en. ugh to purchase an annuity equal' to the pension he received from the. country it he were not in oce. . A Noble Lord, a friend .of his, had'. moat liberally refused to take the pension allowed'to foreign Mi nisiers ; but he would throw himself upon the can dour of the House, and ask, whether having thus impoverished his fortune and deprived his children of many thousand pounds, tie ceuld be expe6ted to act as liberally as his Noble Friend to whom lie had alluded. He had thought it right to mention this fact respect ing his Noble Friend, because shone!' he knew it, the. public did not. He woo d now proceed to state 'he , mode he adopted with regard to the palace: being un- - able to examine the bills iri that country, he direel-, ed one of his dragomen.to investrgate the aecuunts and manage the whole of the building; they ,werealso examined by Mr. Muliet.. He hoped, that from what he had _stated, the vouchers, ti'r alt the ex pe-ce being deposited in the Foreign Office for every shilling of the expellee, that it would not appear that . he had. aCled iocerreelly in the manner in which he had conduc,ted his pecuniary accounts, or that the G.vertunent had been over-ready in ,eimbursing the ,60‘,ey-he ,had expended, or-in sani:tioning the ex pelJt ehe had incur red. The last h. ad of expendi tare to which he wished to CA the atten&ton of the House, was the compensatioe for his losses. The sum Was 77q,51. 1 I s, ; and the sum tor his Secretary and sarvantar, 7941. ts. t Id. making together 8001. vs. 1 id. On the subject of compensation for losses, when he, stated that the. whole value of t et!!-t:ts he had at .Constantinople, amounted to 21,0001.. it might he said, that his establishment was very expensive; but it appeared from thestatement he had read from M. Dc Italinski, that it . was not only not a very expensive one, but that it was less than could have been expeOed. He had expelled to rem)in at Constantinople a long time, and therefore had taken 'every possible article , with hiM ; he would, if the House chose, read the detail. (A cry of, No, no.)--Mr. Atbuthnet .then read a letter which he wrote to Mr. Canning, dated fith Novem ber, 1807, siatiog, that the amount of the effects which he left at Constantinople amounted to 11i,4961. It Was impossible for him to state pre cisely the amount of his loss, but he _e cou 1 I state that 77001. was as small a sum as could be stated, or could be expeetad from the pillage that took place when he left Constantinople. No notice had been taken of any part of the property which he had lost, for which he had not the means of producing vouchers. After he had ascertained that all his property had been lost, ex,cept his plate, some of his books, and china, he made an applicatioe to Go vernment.to be reimbursed, but he had previous ly applied to his Honourable Friend opposite to him (Mr. Adair), who knew of the la6l of the loss he had sustained, and who thought he was war ranted in making the application. In conse-e quence of this application, he was allowed 30001, since the making up . of the accounts. Before he made this application, belaid all the accounts be fore his Hon. Friend, and it 'was not till he got his assurance that the property was lost, and that he believed my account a jut one, that he made his al pplicationfor reimbursement. Having gone through the whole of his explanation,it might not be improper to recapitulate what he had stated, Palace - A: 1 7. 26 ; 2 71 Miscellaneous, conneded with palace 6,327 17 4 E xtraordinaries. 1. Messengers - - - 3, 1 73 9 Si 2. Presents and Janissaries - 1,699 to 56 3. Dragomans . - . 1,863 12 9 4 Extra , E xpences . - - 5.73 2 4 2 Compensation for myself - - 7,765 1 1 o For Secretary and servants . .. , 798 0 o Total received 45,281 19 Add Exchequer Fees 2,615 5 )7.47,97 5 8. He was not aware how far the House might think that a foreign Minister should be compensated fur his losses, whether occasioned by his o.Nn ad or by the aas of others. It would be painful to him if he thought he had been compensated for - any losses hich might have lien avoided (hear, hear!). When the circumstances of his d~parture from- Constanti nople were mentioned in that House, he had not the honour of 'a sest in it, and if he troubled the House with any observations not . immediately conneaed with the subje& before them, he hoped he should. be pardoned for so doing. It was opt his wish to re agitate that question, or to introduce any party feel ings'into the discussion.. His objeB was to do jus tice to others, to take responsibility upon himself, and -when he felt that he alone was responsible to offer his own justification, (Hear, Hear!), With re,speti to his own justification, it would depend entirely upon the circumstances he 11,td stated to the House, Upon the review of the whole of his con tipta, be believed that he could not .du , other. wise thin he: ha' (16ne., 4nd . if it were' to be done again, he should pursue the stint con dna. Here he begged to state, that. the instruc tiOng which he had 'ultima•ely reeved were from Lord Grey. Many persons had said to him, that having received instructions an 1, oheyed them, he was no longer responsible, but were grounds. upon which he would not rest his oefenee. Lord Grey certainly..was not bound to have given him such fall instructions, but he never wrote a' dispatch from Constantinople, without calling upon his Lordship to give him the instrutiions under which he afterwards I abed. He had suggested the necessity of purtiing "fhose measures which were afterwards pursued. He stated, that unless a British squadron were sent to a& with efficacy at Constantinople, the Court of Russia would not believe we were sincere in the common cause. - He should now state short !y.the causes that led to the-termination of his mission. As soon as General Sebastiani arrived at Constan tinople, (not to go farther back) it .was perc:.ived/ that the Porte, which until that time was willing' to join, the general alliance, was disposed ,to break the alliance with Russia A Russian frigate ha' iez at that time appeared in the Bosphorus, G-neral Sebastiani declared, that he, could not permit suTh circumstance, and if- the Porte wished to remain friendly With France, RusSian ships.must not be allowed to enter the Boiphorus. At that time the Hospodars of M ddavia and Wallachia were dis placed in violation of the treaty With WAsia, at the desire of Sebastiani: the Court of Russia ordered the the Russian Minister to complain'of this circiath stance, and to threaten to leave Constantinople if they were not restored; his application had not the desired etreM ; he then applied to biro (Mr: Arbuth not) to support hiS representation,' which he did, and after a.negociat ion of 14 days, the H4podars were re instated. Nothing could be greater than the inflUenee of the Brit i-h Court at the Porte at 1111 time, 'as , was found hy the restoration Of the Hospodars. But about six weeks afterwards, it was ruin cured that a Russian army had crossed into Moldavia. He was applied, to by the Ministers of the Porte of this circumstance. As his obje6l was to prevent a war between RusSia and the Porte, he prevailed upon the Turkish Government to wait until dispatches were received from Petersburg!). He obtained a delay of three weeks; at ,leneth the Janissaries and Uhl mans became impatient, and clamoured for a war against Russia. The Rnss:an Miekter was then . ordered to leave Constantinople, and it being sup posed thawthe Court of Lo don would adopt the same conduit as ,lhat of Petersburg!), the influence of France became predominant. .He had before this time requested that an additional squadron - should be sent to Constantinople. Lord Grey concurred in that opinion, and he received dis-' patvhei from him to that et - Tea. As soon as ho re ceived those dispatches, 'he demanded 'an audience of the Turkish Ministers, and at that audience re quested that the treaty with Russia should be observed, and he added, that if his propositions were' not com plied with, then Great Britain wonla declare against the Porte ; they were refused.. He then applied for -0 isspotts to send messengers to England,and the Dardanelles, where he expected the English Admi ral was arrived, but they were refused. He had been instructed that Admiral Duckworth would be ordered to.correspond with him before he proceeded to hostilities; but be found t hat ,ad communication was impossible without the pass Ports. It was also intimated to him, that there was an intention of preventing the British Admiral from acting, by.keep ing the British faMory and hinisell (Mr. A.) as. hos tages; He therefore thought it nr-ecessary to put th British factory n a state of safety. He knew that the Admiral would be called upon to act, and that in consequence of a want of communication With him, he would not know hOwao proceel. Mr. Ar buthnot said, he accordingly repaired on board. the British fleet, and there endeavoured to carry on the negotiation. He afterwards received dispatches from Lord Grey, in Consequence of which he offered his Mediation with theßuSSiati.General in Moldavia., It was- important for him to remove the British fac tory, and he could not think of leaving Constanti nople till they were-safe. H e invited every British subject on board a British frigate,. an when he . knew that .every British- subject was on board, then, and not till then, he embarked wait ed at the Dardanelles till Admiral Duckworth ar rived there with his Squadron, but they were de, tained for a considerable time below the Dardanelles; - in the mean time, the Turks, fortified the. entrances. He went on shore to communicate with the Captain Pacha, his only object in embarking bring to secure the safety of the British subjeEts,• and to :negoti rte with safety. If he were to be allowed to produce all the documents, he could shqw that he had spared no effort to preserve peace. So great was his desire for peace, that he offered, if they would discontinue the defensive at the Dar danelles, to go on shore, and to proceed to the Russian General in Moldavia, to negotiate for the. renewal of the amicable relations that had unfortu nately been interrupted. The. Captain Pacha re fused,to suspend the fortification of tire Dardanelles. •Adiiiral Duck wort hand himself resolved to pass the Dardanelles.. ThehiStory of that passage was already known to the House. When they reached the sea o f Marinora his responsibilty no longer existed ; but lire wind being contrary they were drifted ,to the Prince's Islands, and it never was in the power of the squadron to AO against Constantinople. He was at that time attacked by so severe an tisposi tion as to endanger his fife, He would now read Some letters -from Lord Howick and Mr. Canning (d cry ff no, - no). Since it was not the pleasure of the House to hear these letters he could only ex press a- hope that the House would 'see by whose &- ration he It rd aCted, and that his condo& had met with the approbation of Government. With regard to his pecuniary disbursements he hoped .the • House would- be of °pillion that he had 001-le all that could he required Of him. - He should only say that - he had not made a single assertion that was not borne out by vouchers. If any Gentleman thought that any further explana tion was necessary, he would Most willingly give it, and he assured the House, that there was no degree' of publicity respetting his condo&, that he would not anxiously court. [Mr. Arbuthnot was, at the conclusion of his speech, and repeatedly dur- , ing the course of it, cheered by both sides of the House.] Mr. ADAIR complimented the accuracy with which his Ri4ht Hon. Friend had made - his state ment, and acknowledged that he bad fully justified his cottrin6k in leaving t onStantit , o2l.3 at-the title. and finder the circumytances in which he had tett it. But in defende of .the Government, he rust say, that the means entrusted' by them shoe fully adequate to the performance of ihnse objects of immense impertance which were in view, ,He was sorty that th ey cou ld not sail up cp.-ea to the walls. Tit vindication Of the measure at that time adopted b e G ove , o , Ment, he stated it to have been so near acComphsh ing its objeet,.that he hal been informed, when .1)0 sqUad i ron s.fremed the passa,, , ,e of the Dardanel.et, that the Turks, from the idea they bad formed of .b impregnability of that passage; were thio,A.n into the greatest consternation. The alarm was so great that the Grand Vizier scot to , General SeA•diat,i t.) inform him, that he (the Vizier) would not ha 4 his `apital destroyed for his ,(S-bastiani%) sake,.aqd th, , tetore he must leave 0-tictatitinople. Sebasimut was obliged to prepare to.obey this rnanda• e , an d gat), to.burn r t.apers, &e. In this si uation of things; the interference , of the Spanish Anibas.tdor brought. about a change, and led to those results with Which the HOuse and the country were already ac quainted: Mr. ARBUTHNOT said he knew the force was sufficient to . the objett in view ) and if there was any failure, it could not be ascribed to the want of land forces to act with the sqoadron, but res,c(l tirely with himself. He had always declared in private, as he should now in public ) that he alone was to la,c,e, if, blame could attach t 6 any one. The fleet were sufficient, and the land forces, - he thought, unnecessary. The. fact was, that from the time they .passed the Dardanellea, they were tinier fire four hours, and if the troops %ere landed, he did not see hoyv it would be possible to take them on board again. Colonel BAGWELL said he remembered when . . the Right Honourable Gentleman wai Charge d'Af faires in Sweden ; the proper and splendid man , ner in which he supported the dignity of the Bri tish nation ; and if his expenses at Constantinople were as great as they w ere in that count r y i i t was impossible he could hav e spent less than his estimate, represented. Lord GRANVILLE LEVESON GOWER compliment.% ed the Right Hon. Gentleman on his general con , dnEt as an Ambassador, And the credit with whieh he had acquitted himself in different 'Mission, to Sweden, Pottugal, and Turkey. As to the items contained in the papers under the head of F.orcign MiniSters, there was one .such of 60001. in the year 1806, which was received by him ; as to the second : in 1808, that was incurr e d i n consequence o f his abrupt disMissaL from Peiersbur g h. H e was stir, prised to find the Insurers in Lrondon had cha rge d 25 per cenf..in t he insurance of the different , rticles, and he thought it would be hard if the expence should fdl on him. Mr. RICHARD VY ELLESLEY Said he could declare for Lord Wellesley, that no one would be more unwilling to put the,public to any extravagant ex pense,,or to shield himself under that sort of sc= cresy which was attached to the diplomatic cha. racter. • Lord Wellesley had gone out on a speCial commission, and all he received was his own ex penditure. The 6,000 1 . which he wa s state d t o have. received would be found to be in reality overstated, The• e?ichange at Seville was very unfavourable when he 4, rived there, being fourteen per cent. against England, but Lord W(.llesley had sold the articles employed on It he mission for the aca ecitnii of Governnient, and had left some to the amount of ibool. in the hands of the Commks , oners at Seville, to be disposed of also,. by whom they were neglected until the: arrival of the Fre:tch. Those deductions taken into account, would reduce the sum to about 12,0001. When the House it. fiected on the dearness of provisions in that country, and . the necessity his Lordship was under pf' keep ing a table for all the Otficers,.they wouid find that this stun did not exceed what was necessary to main tain the dignity of this country in the person ot. its' representative abroad. , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER express. ed his confidence that the House must tie gle,Aly impressed with the statement of . hi s Ri g h t li on . Friend (Mr. Arbuthnot), and hoped that as these charges were so satisfactorily accounted for in .the cases upon Which explanation had taken place, they would presume that there was as little ground of complaint in the others. With respea to the Com mittee, he was sure it would a& with a becOtn. ing delicacy On the iabjeEt, and avoid going into those m'nute investigations which in his opinion ought to be avoided. If a Committee was appoint• ed, the understanding he supposed was, that it should be apPoirted on the same principle and with the same powers that were entrusted to Committees bf a similar nature before. Upon all former occasions, when an inquiry into'the state oi the Civil List was thought necessary, no person was called to give an account of the state of the King's kitchen. If t h e Committee, k . n the course of their proceedings,foluid it 'necessary to call for additional ptiVileges, they might come to the House for instruCtions. It it appeared that a palace, such as Windsor, was pro• per for his Mijesty, it was proper that the necess.ary expellee should be afforded. If a palace should he granted to his'Son, it was fair that that also should fill upon the Civil List , . The same observation would apply to the apartmenti assigned to other branches of the Royal Family: Mr. TI E LINEY agreed, that as far as related - to the expenditure of Foreign-Ministers, it would be highly improper to lay them before the Public J eh t he thought they should not be defrayed out of fief Civil List, but out of the Secret Service Money. It appeared that somebody bad investigated the ac counts of the Civil List, 'in -a manner in which they ought not to be investigated ; the inference fro,i which was, that if proper means were taken, the expenditure of that List might be ma•erially lessened. If he was on the Committee, he certain. ly would not carry with him any little snarrow spirit of scrutiny, but should merely seek to reconcile the splendour of the Moharchy with the economy of tie Public. If at any tithe a new palace was to be built, he Would have the Minister-Come to 'Parlia ment for the purpose. Such a regulation w o u ld h it better both f o r the Monarch and the people. Mr. BANKES had no doubt bin the Committee would conduct itself properly. He thoUght it possible that the Treasury could contioul alt the Va. rious heads of expense ; and, therefore, the fit ~t thing to learn would be_what checks.existede they would then proceed to asceuain to What extent they had been acted on. He made some observattung