The Sun. — London, England, 1846-08-11 00:00:00

all events come as well from the pockets of the wealthy as the poor Pensioner. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that some misapprehension seemed to exist on the subject. The mea sure which the Hon. Gentleman proposed to alter was introduced at a time when it was the greatest boon to the soldier. At the time it was brought forward all persons were paid at the end of the year. He assured the Hon. Gentleman that the sub ject should receive the consideration of her Majesty's Govern ment, but it was impossible fur him to go further than this de claration. Captain L AYA RD said, that under these circumstances, he would withdraw his motion. After a few words from Mr. P. HOWARD, the motion was withdrawn. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr. GREENE in the Chair. Colonel AN SON then moved that a sum not exceeding 575,670'. be granted to her Majesty for pay, allowance, and contingencies of Ordnance Military Corps. After a few observations from Mr. Williams, Mr. Bernal, Mr. B. Escott, and others, the vote was agreed to. The next vote proposed was 340,9811. for the commissariat and barrack supplies for her Majesty's forces, great coats for the army, clothing for the colonial corps, &c. This vote, after an irregular discussion in reference to the barrack accommodation at Hong-Kong and other settlements abroad, was also agreed to. The following votes were then agreed to :- 94,9031., to defray the expense of the Ordnance-office. 9 23,0`35/„ to defray the expenses of the ordnance and barrack establishments in the United Kingdom and colonies. 125,392/, wages of artificers and labourers in the United Kingdom and colonies. 390,1841 to defray the expenses of ordnance stores for land and sea service. 611, 5;h6/. for works, buildings, and repairs. 60,969/. for the scientific branch. 120,4591. was voted to defray the non-effective services, military and civil, for three-quarters of a year. The resolutions were then agreed to, and the House re sumed. REVENUE. Mr. NIOFFATT wished to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer what article it was proposed to levy a duty upon to make up for the deficiency which would be caused in the revenue by the reduction and equalisation of the sugar duties ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not prepared to say what the article was on which the duty was in tended to be substituted. It would be exceedingly incon venient to say at present what that article was, and, consider ing the difficulties attending the subject, he thought the best course would be to defer naming the article till next session. GAME-LAWS. Mr. COLLETT saii,.seelngilie Member for West Glou cestershire in his rlace,he wished to ask him whether it was the intention of the Hon. Gentleman to bring the subject of which he had given notice before the House, or whether he was to bring forward the grounds of the allusions to him (Mr. Col lett)? He would certainly be present, but he wished to know what the Host. Member meant to do. Mr. G. BERKELEY said he certainly meant to bring the subject of the game-laws before the House, and would allude to all who had lent their aid to bring those laws into con tempt.— (Laughter.) ARMS (IRELAND) BILL. On the order of the day being read for reading this Bill a second time, Mr. LAIJOUCHERE said he wished to take the discussion on this Bill, and the second reading of it, on Wednesday, as several were absent whom he thought would better be present. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE expressed his amazement at the course proposed to be pursued by the Government. He won dered especially who those gentlemen were for whom the dis cussion had been postponed. Mr. L ABOUCHERE thought it would be better for all parties that the second reading should be postponed, that all might have due notice, and especially the Irish Members. He was afraid also that it would be late before the House could enter upon it ; but, if it was the wish of the House, he had no objection to bring on the second reading to-night. CUSTOMS DUTIES ACT. On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the House went into Committe on the Customs Duties. On the article spirits being read, Mr. MACKINNON said he begged to press the motion of which he had given notice, on the equalisation of duties on colonial spirits with British spirits. In Ireland the duties were 2s. Bd. ; in Scotland, 3s. 4d. ; and in England, 9s. 4d. The consequence was, there was a differential duty between England, Scotland, and Ireland. He asked the Government why they should violate the principle which' they had recog nised in the, Sugar, Bill? Nay, more; recognised in a late measure, which admitted spirits made from sugar in the Channel islands, at a lower rate than spirits from the colonies. That only encouraged a monopoly, which discouraged the co lonial trade. He should wait till he heard what the Govern ment would say on the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Hon. Member was under no obliea , ion of apologising for the intro duction of the subject On which he had occupied the attention of the House. It was one of great importance. With regard to the duty imposed on colonial rum, the difference between the duty imposed on it and British spirits was made, he would not say whether rightly or wrongly, in order to equalise the fiscal burdens upon the two classes of producers. It was quite clear that colonial rum should not be admitted on the same duty as British spirits, when they considered that there was a duty on the raw material of the latter—malt, which was not imposed on the raw material of the former. He was perfectly willing, equal burdens and fiscal impositions considered, to place colo nial spirits on the same footing as British spirits; and it was in the spirit of this proposition that the present alteration was submitted. If this change was not a sufficient equalisation between the two products, he would do what he could hereafter to make it so. With regard to the duty imposed on Irish or Scotch spirits, when the duty was high, continual at tempts were made to evade the duty, and illicit distillation prevailed to a great extent. But since the reduction of the duty had taken place, illicit distillation had almost ceased, while the consumption of regularly produced spirits had greatly in creased. The present duty, therefore, was as high in each country as could be, without giving great encouragement to illicit distillation. The facilities tor evading the revenue in Scotland and Ireland, from the nature of the countries, were so great that it would be impossible safely to retain any higher duty than the rates now imposed. In England the spirit duty was regulated according to the circumstances of the country, and if it was higher, smuggling would inevitably prevail to a great extent. There was a large amount of unprotected coast in England, especially in the west, and to raise the duty higher, would be to offer the greatest inducements to smuggling. He did not throw out these observations as an answer to the objections of the Hon. Gentleman, but rather to show that great care and considera tion should be observed before any change was made. The lion. Member concluded by a review of the scales of duties rnposed on British spirits, at various periods from 1802, with he object of illustrating the course of argument he had been nrsuing with regard to the duties that should be imposed. Mr. HUME was satisfied with the explanation of the Right ' lion. Gentleman with regard to English spirits, but he was not so satisfied with that relating to Scotland and Ireland. He could not see any reason why the people of these two countries should be obliged to pay more for colonial rum than they paid for whisky. Mr. GOULBURN would take the proposal of the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) as an in stalment of what was due to the colonies. In the year 1830 he had occasion (being then Chancellor of the Exchequer) to re vise the whole subject, and proposed an additional duty of Is. upon British spirit. Corn was then subject to a higher duty than it was by the existing tariff, and then it would be three years hence. Unfortunately, he was unable to carry his ar rangement into effect. With respect to the differential duties of Scotland and England, he thought there were departmental difficulties in the way of their equalisation ; but these were not insuperable. He considered that in consequence of the disad vantage under which the West Indian colonies laboured by the recent measure, which affected their interests, to adopt the proposed reduction on rum was an instalment of what they were justly entitled to. He thought, therefore, the equalisation of the duties on rum and British spirits was a measure to which they were entitled in accordance with every principle of justice. Mr. P. M. STEWART told the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to proceed in the course he had commenced. He deprecated the anomaly which existed between the duties on Irish and Scotch spirits, and contended that on one article, drawing a revenue of five millions yearly, such a principle should not be applied. Be hoped they would not attempt to settle the sugar question without eqnalising the duties on rum and British spirits, and regulating the supply of labour, two measures which the West Indies were entitled to in consequence of the measure which had. lately passed for the equalisation of the sugar duties. Mr. BERNAL said, if the West Indies and British Guiana were to be considered as integral parts of the British empire, there was ne reason why their commodities should not be allowed to come in on the principle of competition with the same commodities the produce of the United Kingdom. He said he would not say a word on West Indian grievances, all he would say was, do justice to the colonies and the West Indian interest. He remembered well that the landed interest in this country was always made the foundation of these differ ential duties ; but he hoped the House would deal with the sugar grower as they had done with the corn grower, and equalise the duties. Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to explain, and said all that he meant was that some time was necessary for the Govern ment to consider this question, lest injustice might be done to any parties. It was certainly his wish to avoid this, and he hoped his Hon. Friend would allow the Government time to take it into their consideration. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in answer to a remark from Nit. Goulburn, said that the duties in the tariff, of this year, were put down exclusive of the 5 per cent. Mr. GOIJLBURN said when rum was pat in the schedule reduced to t 33• 10d , he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer was aware there was a 4d. additional to the nine shillings of the former tariff. He wished to know whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer was aware that he might only be reducing the duties on that account by merely 2cl. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he under.tood the suggestion, and would see that his intention was attained, Mr. MACKINNON then withdrett his motion. The several articles were then gone through and agreed to. The report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. The House then resumed. ARMS (IRELAND) BILL. On the order of the day for the second reading of this Bill being read, Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was with extreme reluctance that he rose to more the second reading of this Bill ; but that feeling, he said, did not arise from the Bill as a whole, for the Government, and he agreed with it, was of opinion that this Bill was necessary for the well-being of Ireland. He did not agree with all the provisions of this Bill, and had he been con. suited on it, he could never have been a a party to the introduc tion of kt into the House.—(Hear, hear.) But he hoped to show the House that it was perfectly in consistency with this op.'isien that be rose to move the House to Fs° the measure for so litnit.eizi a period as would give the Government time to con sider wlsat might be the best course to take in the Govern ment a Ireland. Ile said the House would agree with him in this, that it would be no part of a wise .pokey to have the peace and security of that country mnguarded. He said this was n.it a continuance Bill ; the Go vernment in that respect had adopted a most novel course, for it ca me int,o the House, and asked it to pass this Bill only till the f i rst of 4ay next, th.it it might have time to consider the cours • of poicy it should adopt. Ile did not know any other course the sArternmont could have pursued on this questio n , as the terms ot z the Bill made it imperative that th e whole ,ariiquestion s hould by fully considered early in the next session of eena-t "It might have been said, why not withdra w the p resent Arnie Bpi, and introduce the Arms Bill previousl y i n opera. Lion? ? But he had objections to that Bill, greater objections than he )iad to the present one, and, therefore, the best course be thought would be to renew the Bill for the short period he darned. While he proposed this, his objections to the resent I Bill, which he had stated on a former v oe.easion• still remained, both as regarded the registering of ar. vas and " branding." With regard to the former, the re gisft.ations were over, and no harm could arise from that Clause between now and next May ; and with regard to branding that had already taken place. No harm could there fore arise from the continuance of the Bill for nine months onger. • By so doing her Majesty's Government would have the oppOrtunity of fully considering the question. A great deal in the meantime would depend on the way in which the Government would carry the provisions of the Act into opera. tion, and while he pledged himself that it would be carried out in the least objectionable manner, he must bear his testimony as to the forbearing way in which the late Government had carried its provisions into effect. He would, therefore, merely as a temporary arrangement, move th.:t the Bill be read a second time. Mr. HUME said the easiest way for the Right Hon. Member to have met the difficulty would have been to allow the Bill to drop altogether.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had ,s 1 _ had not given the shadow of a reason for the continuance f the Bill. He admitted that the Bill had been a failure, and yet he asked the House to consent to the continuance of this bad Bill for nine months longer. The only argument used was, " I have confidence in her Majesty's Ministers, as to the way the provisions of the Bill shall be carried into effect. But he would not consent to place the question on that tenure, and be considered the Government would do itself great injury if it adopted and carried out this Bill. He had a greater re spect for her Majesty's Ministers than they had for themselves, and he wished to save them from attempting any further coer cion. The Noble Lord at the head of the Government himself moved that the branding clause should be expunged from the Bill, and yet he now sought to perpetuate the measure which he then condemned. He would advise her Majesty's Govern ment to drop coercion and try conciliation ; and, depend upon it, they would find that much more advantageous for the wel fare and peace of Ireland. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time this day month. The amendment being seconded, Mr. SHAW denied there was any thing coercive in the 13111. The principal clauses objected to were inoperative now—those relating to registration and branding ; and, therefore, there could be no objection to acceding to the request of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland. The course pro posed by the Government was the most reasonable that, under present circumstances, could be adopted. Mr. BICKHAII ESCOTT said if the Bill had been found troublesome, useless, and expensive, as asserted by the Hon. Member, who had just sat down, he would ask where was the necessity for re-enacting it now ? He could not understand the motive for bringing it forward again. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, gave no reason for passing this tyrannical Bill, or why the constitutional rights of the Irish people should be handed over to the excel tive Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman to.d them three years ago, that it was the custom of the executive Go vernment to resort too much to their unconstitutional proceed ings. If that was his opinion, then, and if it was as he called it, a tyrannical measure, why did he now, when he passed over to the other aide of the House, propose and support what he then so violently and unhesitatirgly condemned? No man pretending to common honesty could adopt such a course. For his own part be called upon the House to reject the Bill. Mr. MUNTZ said that public men were at great discount now, he might say that they were at Birmingham discount, 75 per cent.—(Laughter.) And he thought that the late change which had taken place in the opinions of the men who composed the present Government, as compared with those which they held when they were on the other side of the House, would not tend to raise them in the estimation of the country. He thought he would be degrading and disgracing himself by supporting the present Government in this measure, though he was gene rally in the habit of supporting them. Mr. SH ARM A N CR A WFORD condemned the Bill. He thought that- the branding system was very disgraceful ; and entertaining as he did the views with which he formerly re garded it, he would vote against it. Mr. REDHEAD YORKE would reluctantly vote against the Government; but, to be consistent with the opinions which he formerly expressed, he must oppose them on the present oc casion. Mr. BELLEW would vote against the Bill. The Govern ment were inconsistent with regard to it, and he would oppose them. Mr. PIGOTT supported the Bill. The Recorder for Dub lin had truly stated that all the mischief of the Bill was past. The greater portion of the arms had been registered. During the last six months very few registers had taken place. He called upon the House to allow the Government time to consi der the whole subject, as he believed that, under all the circum stances, such a course would be most expedient. Mr. HORSMAN said his regret at the introduction of this Bill formerly wag greatly increased on this occasion. The members of the Government, when out of office, had opposed this measure—had said that coercive measures had been a signal failure, but now, when in office, they not only abstained not from such measures, but they adopted them. This was surely infatuation; certainly it was humiliating to the Right Hon. Gentlemen to uphold what they had previously opposed. He said he could not give the measure his support. Sir J. FERGUSON said he would certainly support the measure. Mr. B. OSBORNE said he could not understand the dis tinctions which were to be drawn in this legislation between England and Ireland; that English people were to be allowed to use their powder without restriction, and the Irish were not. The Government came in with protestations of good-will to Ireland, and a wish to destroy distinctions between that and this country, but here, with a measure which was not be queathed to them, they contradicted their own previous pre tensions. The Bill was not bequeathed to them. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) had said that the Bill was entirely a failure. Why, then, he asked, should the Govern ment allow this Bill to remaia on the statute-book? He would certainly give the measure his opposition. Mr. T. DUNCOM tiE thought the Noble Lord, who by some means or other was considered the Prime Minister in that House—(Laughter)—would have occasion to explain his votes. He had, a few nights ago, asked the Noble Lord on what principles he meant to carry on the Government. The Noble Lord talked about everything except what would have been an answer to his question, and said at last he would carry on the Government on the principles which he had al ways advocated. What? Was it thus that he was to carry out the principles advocated by him in 1843? By a measure like this—a measure which he supposed they were to pass as a tribute to their predecessors, whom they had turned out gf office on the principle of non-coercion for Ireland. They had turned them out, and now the first act of the Government was an Act of coercion. One Hon. Member had called this a piece of infatu ation; it was a measure which would have died of itself, and no one would have heard of it. For his part, considering what would be said in Conciliation Hall, that here another Saxon Parliament had passed another Coercion Bill, he would stand to the last in his place and oppose it. Mr. PROT HEROE might have, under other circumstances, voted against the Arms Bill, but, at present, he must support the Government. He believed if the present Government was thrown out there would be no chance of getting a Minis try so well disposed to do justice to Ireland. Lord MORPETH claimed no gratitude for himself in rela tion to Ireland, as be had on various occasions proposed Arms Bills to Parliament, but he did so on those occasions from a pressure of necessity. The Hon. Member ( Mr. Duncombe) spoke very harshly in relation to the members of the Government in voting against the coercion, and proposing the present mea sure. Now, there was this difference in the two case; while they objected to the plan proposed in the Coercion Bill for tran quillising Ireland, it did not follow that they were against all regulations applicable to the proceedings of the people of Ire land. He, for one, was nit prepared to say that Ireland could do al: :igether without some form of an Arms Bill, and some measure to regulate the sale of gunpowder ; and while they objected to many of the provisions of the present Bill, all they asked of the House was to continue it a little longer, in order that the whole question might be considered, and that a measure might be digested, which would be more in accordance with the feelings of the people of Ireland, and cal culated, with the measures that might be proposed, to improve the general condition of that country.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. SPOONER thought the proposition of the Govern ment a very fair and reasonable one, and it had his most un qualified approbation. Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose, after the various attacks made on him by Hon. Members, to occupy the House a short time as to his consistency, and as to the provisions of the Bill. Now, in preparing the present Bill, he had only one of two courses left him to pursue—either to propose the Bill as it stood, or to throw it out altogether. Had he done the latter, he would have acted more inconsistently than he had done in bring ing forward the proposition for the continuance of the measure. When the measure was previously before the House, the Bill submitted contained two parts ; one providing for the regis tration of arms, and the other had relation to the sale and transfer of gunpowder. There were two main objects sought to be obtained by the Bill, and he gave them his support in 1843, reserving to himself the right of proposing amendments when in Committee. It was, therefore, perfectly consistent in him now to support what he did in 1843, and for ten years before. He, therefore, in 1843. voted for the Bill going into Committee, and when in Committee, he otjecied to the branding clause, though even that clause was not so tyran nical as represented to be. He was defeated in his attempt to improve the Bill in Committee, and, in consequence. he aban doned all further opposition to the progress of the measure. He had now, therefore, to choose between a continuance of the Bill, containing, he admitted, certain very objectionable clauses, and giving it up altogether. He adhered to the former course, as he did not think the power conferred by the Bill should be entirely taken away From all the consideration he had given the subject, he was not prepared to take upon himself the responsibility of abandoning the measure altogether. If there was any particular objection to the clauses, as they were now on the second reading, why not reserve their opposition till they went into Committee, when the obnoxious clauses might be considered. He believed that without this Bill, life and property would not be safe next winter in Ireland, and, believ ing that, he could not shrink from his duty in proposing the second reading of the Bill. Should the House reject the Bill, he felt persuaded that many of these degraded characters, whose proceedings they read of in the Irish papers, would think they had an impunity to do what crimes they dleased. An Hon. MEMBER—Then the Bill is to be permanent in that case. Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not say that it would be per manent on that account. What he meant was that the sud den withdrawal of the Bill would have the effect he stattd on the minds of those unhappy creatures. He was ready to incur all the unpopularity which the proposal of this measure might entail on the present Government. but a regard for the necessities of Ireland required that he should proposeits temporary continuance. He should be very glad when the time for altering the Bill came, but at present he hoped the House would sanction the course which the Go vernment proposed to pursue. Lord SEYMOUR would vote for the Bill if the Noble Lord (John Russell) would promise to expunge the clauses to which he objected when he sat on the other side of the House. Mr. MILDMAY came down to the House to support the Bill, but in consequence of the arguments brought forward by the Treasury Bench in support of the measure he was deter mused to oppose it. The Noble Lord, the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, said , that there was no time t o consider the Bill with a view to its alteration; and on th a t account tht ught it would be better to propose its temporary continuance. As. however, the Government themselves thought the measure ebjectionable—(Laughter)—hecould not sanction the course pursued by the Government with regard to it. Mr. GOULBURN would support the Bill. The late Go vernment had thought the present Bill necessary, and as he , considered th e same c i rcums t anee w hi c h called for the Bill still exist e d he would support the Government. Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to the Hon. Member behind him (Lord Seymour). had no objection to accede to the ex punging theW wouldN Gov er the m o e p n p t os w e ith r eg ß a i r l l d , of th e o bj ect i onable clauses . - t a o nd th l e te m b e e a li s e u v r e e d ni t o h i e t c o n i‘ d j r u . c inconsistent. --- Mr. COLLETT thought the Bill uncalled for, 6a inapplicable, and inefficaious. The Nobl e L i rd freuqnuncenctelsy2' je:tted to the sliding-scale of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth ; he had, however, followed that Right Hon. Gentleman with regard to dogging in the army, which he proposed to continue during the life of the Duke o f Wellington—(Laughter) —and he now proposed to try the F A o g r ai th ns s ti‘fita sliding scale with regard to the present measure He would, theretore, oppose the second reading of this Bill. Colonel SIBTHORP would adopt the same course now as he did when the Bill was last before the House. lie would never support a truckling Government. If a stringent measure was considered necessary, why not at once bring in a coeTrhcienHßouilsle?then divided, when there appeared, amendment .. ............ ... jority in favour of the Bill Mr. ESCOT t requested that the former Bill should l-363 be printed. Lord JOHN RUSSELL consented. Mr. T. DUNCONIBE said it inaa generally understood that certain objectionable clauses were to be omitted ; inde4 several votes had been given the Noble Lord on that ground. If they were excluded, he would give the Government very little troa ble. Ho hoped, and he saw no reason against it, that Ireland and England would be governed on equal principles. How ever, the Noble Lord had not yet said he would exclude those clauses ; he had merely said to the Hon. Member opposite, that he would take it into consideration. But all knew what that meant. Lord J. RUSSELL said the question proposed was a diffi cult one, and it might require consideration ; but he would con sent to the exclusion of the clauses in question. Mr. HUME said if he had heard the same from the Noble Lord sooner, he would not have divided the House on the subject. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted on Monday next. FORMS (ASSESSED TAXES) BILL. This Bill was rea'd a third time and passed. PUBLIC WORKS (ADVANCES) BILL. The report on this Bill was brought up and agreed to. CONSTABULARY (IRELAND) BILL. The report on this Bill was brought up. Mr. WILLIAMS could not agree to the mode in which the public money was to be appropriated under this Bill. Mr HUME objected to the charge, and felt inclined to take the sense of the House upon it. He believed the advance of the money would be no relief to Ireland. Mr. CABOUCHERE defended the vote, and stated it would cause great dissatisfaction in Ireland if the vote %in withheld. The report was then received and adopted. THE COUNTY WORKS PRESENTMENTS (IRELAND) (No. 2) BILL. _ _ _ _ The Report of this Bill, after a very few remarks from Mr. Hume, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and some other Hon. Members, was received and agreed to. DRAINAGE OF LANDS BILL. The report of this Bill was brought up and received, and several additional clauses to the Bill added by way of rider agreed to. FLOGGING IN THE ARMY. Mr. B. ESCOTT wished to know if the Noble Lord had any objection to lay on the table a return of persons flogged in the army in Great Britain and Ireland, in the years 1845 and 1846 to the end of July; specifying, 1. The offence. 2. The regiment, the place of station, the time. 3. The sentence. 4. The order for its execution. 5. Whether the trials were open to the public, or only open to the regiment, or with closed doors. 6. The number of lashes inflicted, and the day. 7. How soon after punishment the man was able to return to his duty, and at what place he was then quartered. 8. Whether death had followed within twelve uronths of the flogging, and the date of such death. 9. Whether the punishment was inflicted, if in cavalry regiments, by the trumpeter or farriers; if in infantry regiments, by the privates or drummers, and with what instrument. 10. Copies of the surgeon's minutes of all such punishments, and any subsequent observations on their consequences. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he had an objection to the motion in its present shape. Mr. B. ESCO TT then said he would postpone it till a future time. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 11, 1846. SUNDAY TRADING. Mr. HINDLEY moved the first reading of a Bill for the regulation of Sunday trading. Mr. C. BERKELEY moved as an amendment that the Bill be read a first time that day three months. After a few words from Colonel SIBTHORP, strangers were ordered to withdraw for a division. But there being but Gmrteen Members in the House, it was counted out at half past Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, August 10. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat upon the Woolsack at Five o'clerrk, when several Bills were brought up and laid upon the table. On the motion of the Earl of CLARENDON, several Bills received a first and second reading. POOR REMOVAL BILL. Lord ASHBURTON presented several petitions, amongst others, one from Hampshire, complaining that the proposed mea sure, in reference to the removal of the poor, was a most imper fect measure, and calculated to do the greatest injury to the petitioners. LIVERPOOL, ORMSKIRK, AND PRESTON RAIL ... w,iy. The Earl of ST. GERMANS laid upon the table of the House a report of a Select Committee appointed to inquire into the facts alleged by the company. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from a corporation of tailors of Dublin against the Exclusive Privilege of Trading (Ireland) Bill. Lord CAMPBELL laid on the table of the House a report from her Majesty's Commissioners of Woods and Forests with respect to the new Houses of Parliament. POOR REMOVAL BILL. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the chair man, vice-chairman, and board of guardians of the Leicester union, complaining of the inefficiency and injustice of this Bill. SUGAR DUTIES CONTINUANCE BILL (Isio. 3:) Lord CLARENDON then rose to move the fi'rst reading of this Bill, and hoped that their Lordships would, in accordance with the usual practice, permit the Bill to be read a first time. It was, as their Lord- ships were aware, customary to discourage any explana tion which could lead to a debate, reserving such debate until the second reading, but after the consideration which had been given to the measure, and that their Lordships were prepared to discuss the measure, if he asked their Lordships' leave to depart from that course on the present oc casion, he could assure their Lordships it was from no wish to interfere with the practice of the House, or to establish a precedent, which, he was sure their Lordships would always continue to sanction, and still less so be cause he had not, on the part of the Government, any intention to prevent a full discussion of the question. At the present late pet iod of the session, it was desirable that their should be no unavoidable delay. He would refrain from any details on the subject, because with those all their Lordships must be familiar, and upon the principle of which they had already formed an opi nion. He trusted that those opinions might not be adverse to this Bill, and that it might be allowed to pass without oppo sition. But even if he were certain of the votes which they would give on this question, he felt that he should be wanting in respect to their Lordships, and he should be improperly discharging his duty, if he did not lay before their Lordships the grounds upon which her Majesty's Government asked them to grant a measure which involved considerations as various as the principles of the measure were interestieg to the country. He must, therefore, for a short time trespass upon their indulgence whilst be briefly discharged the duty which devolved upon him. The princi ples of the present Bill had been sanctioned by the policy of the Government and Legislature during the last four years. Parliament had ceased to legislate for particular interests, and had adopted what might be considered, he thought, a principle of national benefit; and the system of protection,or rather non protection, might be looked upon as settled and, he might ven ture to add, for ever abolished. He would, therefore, say no more on that part of the subject, but content himself by expressing his confidence, that as their Lordships had declared ultimately to withdraw protection from British agriculture, that they should not refuse to adopt the same policy towards the colonies, and consequently not reject the principle of the corn-law measure which a few weeks ago received the sanction of their Lordships. He was further induced to feel this confidence because he relied upon the consistency of that House, and because he was fully assured that no political changes woulo induce their Lordships to depart from the principle which, under such circumstances, they had adopted. He also felt this confidence, because a departure from the course he pointed out would be injurious to the great mass of the people, as it would prevent them from obtaining one of the first neces saries of life at a moderate rate. Besides the rejection of the measure would be injurious to the revenue, and, above all, its rejection would inflict great injury on those classes of our fellow-countrymen with whose interests its welfare was bound up—he meant the British consumer ; and he must add that upon this question, to them so important, they had exhibited the greatest moderation.—( Hear, hear.) He included in this Colonial merchants, who call for nothing beyond that which their countrymen here enjoyed. From the moment when they understood that the abolition of the corn-laws was settled here, they also understood that the time had come when there should be no difference between sugar, the produce of slave, and sugar the produce of free labour.—( Hear.) But they considered that the worst thing that could happen to them would be to leave the question in that state of uncer tainty which had occurred from year to year on ac count of the annual discussion of the subject of the sugar duties by Parliament—a course which fre quently rendered their business fruitless and devoid of profit, because it was impossible to apply their capital and ma chinery to the best advantage. They looked anxiously forward for a final settlement of this question. They were induced to look, in this state of things, to the great amount of dif• ferential duties, together with all the sums paid for the eman cipati , n of the slaves, which had imposed upon this coun try 42,000,0001. during the last eleven or twelve years. He would show, with reference to sugar, that Parliament had inflicted a constant, unnecessary, and cruel injustice. Forty years ago, when the whole population and wealth of this coun try was less then than at present, the consumption of sugar was estimated at 301bs. by some persons and by others at 221bs. per head, and this was no exaggerated allowance, for the humblest classes of this country atipresent were allowed 2211b5. per head, and the consumption for the sailor in her Majesty' s navy was 341 b. 3cz. But, notwithstanding the in crease in the wealth and population of the country, and in the improved mode of living, the present average amount was little more than 161bs. per head. But even this gave no correct estimate of the consumption with reference to the labouring classes. The price of the article had made no alteration in the consumption by the rich and middling classes, the former of whom consumed 60Ibs. per head, and the latter 371b5., while the amount left to be divided among the poorer and labouring classes did not amount to more than 81bs. per bead, or 18) per cent. below the pauper and the convict, and 300 per cent. below that of the common sailor. In order to show what was the power of consumption of this article, he would tell their Lordships, from a return whizh he held in his hands, that in New South Wales the annual con sumption of sugar amounted to 104 pounds per head. If their Lordships referred to any of the various tables which had been submitted, showing the wages of the labouring man, they would find that the allowance was not more than three or four ounces per head per week. This might be sneered at by the philanthropist of the negro race, and they might say this was a necessary state of things ; but he looked upon it as a disgrace to any Parliament that they should thus deprive, by the existing laws, the poorer and the unprotected classes of the country of the means of procuring an article which, with the exception of bread, was capable of a more useful, nutritious, and extensive consump tion than any other articles imported into this country. He begged to call their attention to the course to be pursued in that respect. In 1821 the duty on colonial coffee was ls., on East India coffee Is. 611., and on foreign coffee 10s. In 1825 the duties were 6d., 9d., and Is. 3d. In 1835 the duties on colonial and East Indian coffees were equalised, and the duty on the foreign coffee remained the same. In 1844 the duty on foreign coffee was reduced to bd. The consumption in 1821 was seven millions of pounds, in 1831 it was 22 millions, in 1841 it was 28 millions, and in 1835 it was 34 millions, and the increase of revenue was from 340,021/. to 718,000/. The consumption of tea in 1821 was 22 millions, in 1831 it was 29 millions, in 1841 it was 3t; millions, and in 1845 it was 44 millions. The revenue, in 1821, was 3,200,0001., and in 1845 it was 4,800,000/. Then they came to the consumption of sugar. In 1821 it was 4,000,000 cwt., in 1831 it was 4,000,000 cwt., in 1341 it was 4,900,000 cwt., in 1844 it was 4,009,000 c3 d B ; l B r . t° , i n °, g: a n ): ( t i : h let. the I n e a s Sh i 45 it was 5,000,000 cwt. The revenue en sugar from 1823 to 1845 varied from 5,500,0001. to that period having sugar liodw—e stth h e a v d r co varied ti very inogn .ul during itnt Os.lge The price increased years, r eaav e. d O o f t o h f s e r m andthe • _, having remained nearly stationary. Under these circum stances, he hoped th at the House .o I' with him that the time had now arrived when these duties should be p la ced on a more liberal and a fi rmer basis. That had been the object of her Majesty's Government, with a due re gard to the interest of the British producers, to the exigencies of the revenue, and the wants of the people. He trusted that he should be able to show to the House that such an alteration would be for the benefit of the public and the consumer. From 1841 the duty has been reduced to 14s. 6d. The consequence had been that there was an increased amount in the consumption of sugar in this country, while, under the former system, it could not be shown that any advantages resulted to the planter himself, and that the labourer derived no advantage from the system as it then ex- s Wed. He did not show that there was any iwyroved manner of production of the commodity. It did not appear, there fore, that any advantage resulted from these differential duties. It had led to attempts at gain which were not justified, and the confident predictions that were uttered at the time had not bsen fulfilled. In 1824, when Mr. Huskisson admitted foreign iron, it was broadly stat , cl that every furnace in the country would be blown out. But what was the result ? Why he believed the produce at that time was about 300,000 tons a year, while now it was fully 1,8110,000 tons. The same prin ciple held good with regard to the colonists in our British Vest Indies. Only let them do away with these differential duties— only let them do away with this uncertainty respecting the duties which are to be charged—only let there be a sufficient assurance of the immigration of labour, and both planters and labourers would alike partake of the benefit, and would easily accommodate themselves to the circumstances and in no way be injured by the change. By a report which had been re ceived from Sir John Hawkins, which had been read in the other House, it appeared on the representation of the worthy Baronet that, at a meeting of the East India and the East India and China Association, called expressly to consider this very question, a resolution had been unanimously come to, that if there were a sufficient supply of labour, the colonists would have ne reason at all to apprehend the change. It should be recollected that there was still an advantage preserved to the colonists, and that no trifling or insignificant advantage. The protection reserved to them oven under the new duties—( Hear, hear)—in the first year would be equal to 50 per cent. in the second year 43 per cent., in the third year 32 per cent., in the fourth year 21 per cent., and in the fifth year 10 per cent. Lord STANLEY—But how does that affect foreign sugars? The Earl of CLARENDON—The duty under the present arrangement would he 21s. ; the colonists desired 2.35. 4d. It was desirable that the price of sugar with the duty should not be more than 455., if the consumption were to be extended so as to ensure the benefit to the labourer and the security of the revenue. The price of foreign sugar en an average was 245. 4d, which, with the duty of 235. 3d., was about 475. 7d., being about 2s. 7d. more than the desired rate. The price cf British Colonial sugar was, during the year, duty included, 505.; that is, 365. for the net price, and, with the duty and cleara nce , ma ki ng up the rate he had: just stated. But this was in some degree owing to the deficient crops of last year. These two sugars had found their level, and British colonial sugar was now selling at the level price in the market. And as to the quantity which may be expected, he was very far from attaching any undue consequence to the statements which had been made, but he could only say that the statement which he now made was collected from the best sources, and framed with the greatest care, to prevent exag geration. From the present time to the sth of July, 1847, there would be about 2,000,( 00 cwt. ; in the second year, about 40,000,000 cwt. in the third year, 240,000,000 cwt.; in the fourth year, 260,000,000 cwt.; and in the fifth year, 270,000,000 cwt. Then, with respect to the revenue, the result would be found to be equally satisfac tory ; for when it is considered how necessary it is, for the safety and honour of the country, to maintain our esta blishments in a proper manner, and befitting this country, such a consideration must have great weight. The revenue of the two successive years would be 4,000,0001,, that of the present year was 3,800,0001., and in the fifth year it would be 5,000,0001. He would now come to the question whether her Majesty's Government were warranted or justified in proposing to their Lordships this measure, as far as it would affect the slave trade.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") In the first place, (said his Lordship, with much warmth) I must beg leave to say that I yield not to my Noble and Learr.ed Friend, or any man living, in abhorrence and detestation of that inhuman practice—(Cries of " Hear, hear")—and that there is no sacrifice, nor any risk, that I would not incur in order to put a stop to it, if I thought that we could check this system by perseverance in the course we have hitherto pur sued, and in making any alteration in our diffe rential duties, I would not yield to any man in my exertions to put an end to the system. I should consider no risk, nor no sacrifice too great for such an object, but, at the same time, my Lords, I should require to know the amount of success that has followed our previous policy. --( Hear.) At the same time that we restricted the comforts of our people and the receipts of our Exchequer, did we put an end to this traffic in human beings? At the time we imposed our prohibitory duties, and those privations upon our people, and that we exposed ourselves to injury, I ask you, my Lords, what was the result of our efforts? Could they (continued his Lordship) after calmly and dispassionately reviewing the past—could they say that they had succeeded in abolishing slavery, notwithstanding all their great risks and their great sacrifices, and their collisions with foreign nations ? ( Hear, hear.) It was notorious that during the last thirty years they had not—notwithstanding their unabated energy and courage in their struggles to put down the system—they had net, in fact, succeeded in doing anything. He was sure their Lordships must still bear in mind that eloquent and powerful speech which had been ad dressed to their Lordships a few weeks ago by his Noble and Learned Lord opposite (Lord Brougham) on the sub ject of slavery. That Noble and Learned Lord alluded, in the course of his speech, to the great efforts of Napoleon to put down a particular system. but as Napoleon had failed in that object, so had we failed in our attempts to abolish the system of slavery. They had made treaties with every maritime power in the world, with the view of abolishing that system. The naval powers of this country had been brought to bear against the system; they had dimi nished their revenue, and they had imposed privations on the people, and they had quarrelled with some of their best cus tomers and allies.—(Hear, hear.) They had coerced the weak, and succumbed to the powerful nations of the world, in respect of the slavery question, and yet they had not succeeded in their objects.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Fhe Noble Lord, who at times was scarcely audible in the gallery, then went on to say, that by returns it appeared that seventy-five vessels engaged in the slave-trade were seised last year. Do not let their Lordships refuse to adopt measures now proposed, however much they might have been committed against them, when the necessity for them was not so great—do not let them refuse to deal as they should with that worst of contrabands—slavery. He did not believe, irrespective of the idle dreamers in political economy, that any injurious result would accrue from the adoption of this mea sure. He did think that the means were within their grasp of adopting a better principle with respect to free and ' slave labour, because, in the first place, it did away with the disparity between the labour of the slave and free man; and if protection, as their Lordships had affirmed, was injurious to agriculture, the same arguments would apply to iligar. —(hear, hear.) He did not, in saying this, state an opinion unsupported by practical men, or a problem which could not be easily solved, for he was affirming that principle which practical men in India, and in this country, were anxious to see carried out, because, it was well known that free labour competed upon equal terms with slave labour in all the markets of the world. The Noble Lord then referred to a speech of a Mr. Burnett, a respectable landowner of Trinidad, at a great agricultural meeting in that colony, which was attended by an immense number of planters, at which he said the removal of the restriction on sugar and labour was ab so'utely necessary in order that they might trade unrestricted with all the world— ( Hear)—irrespective of the colour of the labourers by whom the sugar was produced.—( Hear.) He would go still further, and quote the evidence of General Plinter, and his Noble Friend opposite would see by his statements that his fear that free labour could never be able to compete with slave labour was groundless. (The Noble Earl then proceeded to read an extract from General Plinter 's works, from which it appeared chat a free labourer could work for a longer period in the field than a slave labourer.) The proprietor who em ployed free labour had not to sink his capital in the pur chase of slaves, nor had he to contend with the losses consequent upon their death or illness. It also appeared that coffee, indigo, and other tropical productions could be produced in the colonies by free labour at a much less cost than by the employment of slave -labou r . It was a l so evident that free labour was mote profitable than slave labour, from the fact that estates in the West Indies, worked only by slaves, did not pay a shilling upon their capital ; whereas, estates worked by free labour, or partially by free labour, yielded a fair return for the capital invested. He thought it would be far more profitable to work these estates by free than slave labour. But the profits were not to be derived by a system of protection, by a proprietary living at home in their ease, and leaving their estates to be managed by agents, whose interests were by no means identical with the proprietors, but by an improved system of agriculture, by the application of skill, capital, and machinery, which was pre pared to be sent from this country as soon as this question was finally settled, and the capitalists knew what they had to do. Then, and then only, would their colonies be able to defy the slave trade, by underselling the slaveowner, and bring about that state of things which nothing but the wealth and the intelligence of this country was able to produce. Be would go further, and say that the present mo mer,t was one peculiarly favourable, and the condition of the two great slave-dealing countries would most mate rially assist in the experiment. The revolution of slaves three years ago in Cuba had left a powerful impress skin and the greatest feeling, of alarm in the minds of the white population of Cuba, and he was convinced that, although their mo • tives were different, their abhorrence of the slave-trade was at this moment hardly inferior to their own. In proof of this he would refer to communications from Buha and the Brazils, de claring that they would rather suffer a diminution of their agri cultural interest than be exposed in their lives and properties. The consumption of sugar had, during the last few years, sin gularly increased in Europe. It had taken place principally in Russia. Along the shores of the Mediterranean; it bad taken place in the states of the Zolverein, and still more in the United States of America. In the states of the Z Averein, in 1540, there was introduced 30,000 tons of sugar, and in 1844, 64,000. With respect to the United States, he had no ac counts upon which he could rely; but from official documents it appeared that in 1840 there were imported 48,00:3,090 lbs. of sugar and 15,000,000 lbs of molasses, while in 1844 there were 114,000,000 lbs. of ground sugar and 194,000,000 lbs. ofmolassee. Now, from what had taken place in the country to which he had alluded, there was a convincing proof that an increased demand for sugar had been met by a greater consumption of labour. It was, therefore, high time for them to make their increased demand, which he felt assured would tend to amelio rate the condition of the slave. They should then be better entitled to meet the charges that had been made against them by foreign nations.—(Hear, hear.) Sugar was the single ex. ception to the maxim observed of the dealing with slave-dealing countries, which had been adopted universally in all other arti cles. It should be recollected that all the slave-growing coun tries were slave-dealing countries It should also be recollected that this was a measure of protection; a measure not so much to exclude the produce of slave-dealing countries, but to reduce the slave trade itself. He could not understand how any ex ception could be made to slave dealing for one object and net for another. If it were not so, why not object to the slave trade of the United States, where slavery existed in all the most brutal and demoralising features which it had ever exhi bited, and infinitely more than had ever been seen in the Bra zils. Yet that had been done with slave-holding America. Why, in 1835, the importation of cotton wool was 2,840,000 lbs. ; and, in 1845, it was 600,000,0001b5. Then with re. spect to tobacco. In 1835 the importation was 25.000,000 lbs. ; and, in 1845, it was 32,000,0001b5. We claimed to be a more moral and religious nation than any other, and yet we were thus indirectly encouraging the slave trade in all its most odious forms. Why, if they were to reject this Bill, they would be writing the most bitter and grievous satire against many of their late acts, and would be doing much to retard the very thin. which they so loudly professed to desire. Why should they adopt' this principle with respect to sugar and with respect to no other article which t attempt pi; pro 0 0 d stop uced the by slave labour? It was a perfect fatuity to slave trade by simply throwing a cheek upon sugar alone. They had done no such thing. They had laid a low duty in order to increase the quantity which they received, and they made a sacrifice of 800,000/. in order to admitprodutchtils,ambeothpoalt. luted cotton free. What has been the practice of this count r y tobaccowith re of regard he to United tobacco? st a te H 3 ad a t t they endeavoured werd ut y than to admit that tof c ey t be . lon ? No ; but they had forbidden its home and in their colonies, in order that they might be enabled to lay a duty o f twelve hundred per cent. upon tobacco coming from the slave- growing states. Inian maize, from which they expecte I so much, and to which they had made no objection, was equally cultivated by slave labour as sugar—(Hear, hear)--and there were a great many other productions which were equally laborious to be cultivated as sugar ; arrow root is quite as laborious—indigo is more labo rious-.( Hear, hear)—rice is infinitely more destructive of human life. Before he concluded he came to the production of copper produce ; and first of all he would mention the cruel ties exercised in the production of copper. The slaves were chained together in the mines, and were scrupulously exill mined, for fear of their having concealed anything. Within the last few years they had received from 50 to 60,000 tons. He then came to the production of coffee. They would con sent to receive large quantities of that article, and yet they would not receive one single ounce of sugar grown by the same slave. We were the greatest dealers in the world in the article of sugar, and sent out enormous quantities of our merchandise in exchange for it. There were generally in our warehouses from 890,000 to 1,000,000 cwts. of this sugar, and after refining it we exported it to our other colonies. After this—the cruelty,of the slave trade—the English people called themselves the opponents of the slave trade. It was, however, well known that slave grown sugar was actually admissible into this country un d er certa i n circumstances, ant he knew that it actually sass admitted. He thought that lie had succeeded in showing: that our virtue and morality con sisted in refusing one particular article from one particular place, and admitting the slave grown article from othe? places. Was not pi otection at the bottom of all this, and were they not afraid that, as they themselves were producers of the article, they would have too strong a competition ? Every cwt. of free labour sugar that they consumed was replaced by an equal quantity of the slave grown article. Was it not wrong to pro ceed on this small fraction of a principle, and call it their mora lity and humanity, while they indirectly encouraged it under these circumstances ? He asked their Lordships to give their support to the Bill. Lord STANLEY said that it was necessary that he should say to his Noble Friend opposite, who had just sat down, that some of the observations he had made required no corrobora tion or confirmation from him, but at the time he held it to be his duty to commence the observations he had to offer to their Lordships, by confirming to the fullest extent the statement the Noble Lord made in con.menc ing his observations.—( Hear, hear.) However unusual had teen the course adopted in introducing the discussion, it was adopted with the consent, and in part for the convenience, of some Noble Lords on his side of the House. He concurred with his Noble Friend, that it was desirable to have the question settled, for the benefit of trade, and for the benefit of the pecuniary affairs of the country ; but, with the exception of these two points, he did not agree with a single principle of his speech, or a single doctrine which he had held out. They were called on to come to a decision on a measure which had been passedthrough the House of Commons in a short space of time; and on little or no warning to adjudicate upon this important question. The present Government had in the year 1841 been defeated on a question relative to protection, and the sub sequent Parliament had confirmed the opinion of the old one, and still this same Parliament had turned round and opposed their former opinions —on what ground ?—why, that they might, as the Noble Lord had said, appear consistent, and not contradict the principle which on a late decision they had come to. Anything less called for than the present measure to com ply with the principles of free trade he never heard. They had heard that prices were to be lowered, that import duties were to be diminished. The duties on the inferior articles of tea amounted to 200 per cent. ad valorem, and thus the superior description of tea was released at the expense of the inferior classes of tea, the articles which the poorer classes consumed. The duty which would be charged on sugar would be about 14s. on what cost 305., which amounted to 50 per cent. He considered that if the doctrines of free trade were introduced and carried practically into effect they would involve the finances of the country in inexplicable confu slim. But then they, were told that sugar was a monopoly. What, a monopoly, in which nineteen states competed with each other? Why, there were only two countries in the world who were excluded from the monopoly, and they, because they used a maehiney which gave them a superiority over other countries, and the use of which was considered by Christians as a disgrace and a crime. He objectes! to the period in which the Bill was brought forward. He objected to it on the principles of expe diency—on the principles of policy—on the principles of huma nity, and he would almost say on the principles of consistency. There never was a measure more uncalled for than the present. In 11'40, her Majesty's Government declared that the price of slave-grown sugar should not be taken into consideratien. At that time sugar was about 48s. 8d per cwt., exclusive of the duty. Well, the price has fallen to 325. 6d., and the supply has increased from 160,0110 tons to 245,000; so th a t was his answer to the necessity of this measure—that was his answer to the sugar famine. His Noble Friend had gone further than he had ever heard or believed a man could go; in the calculation respecting such a crop as sugar, he ventured to calculate for five years—what few would have attempted to have done for three. But he would take an opportunity befere he sat down of refuting the Noble Lord's calculations, and showing him the absurdity of attempting to enter into such a detail. They had now 46,000 tons of sugar exported from the Mauritius, from which Mr. Huskisson raid that if they ever received 10,000, he would eat it bodily • he therefore asked his Ncble Friend upon what principles he made his calculations of the consumption and supply of sugar. But he would come back to the former point, and he would ask what was it that had reduced the price of sugar ? It was not because they had the stimulus of competition, but it was because they had the sti mulus of protection —( Hear, hear.) The West Indies, under the promise of protection, had increased from year to year—in 1841, from 44,000 tons ; in 1842, 55,000 tons ; in 1843, 69,090 tons ; and in the present year 80,000 tons. The same was the case with respect to the Mauritius. In 1841 they exported 20,000 tons; in 1826, 46,000 tons; and in the next year it was estimated at 60,000 tons. But that would not be the whole of the effects of the proposed plan. It would add of ue e bas value saue.g.... tahr(e of Hear,tnoe to net profits h e e hear.)a v m ery t of fu en They every y o f y f slw s a u ovgeual eitherred importedalboaylg.tehdoer in from nilastnhl . proposed, cultivation lt) Brazil iev aa and on.r t no his master for his services.—( Hear, hear.) And that was not all, nor nearly all ; it would not only cause an increase in the demand of 25,000 tons—it would not only increase the value on all sugar imported to Si. per ton, but it would increase the demand o' this country, by reducing the price of the sugar. and they must take into calculation the amount of sugar which would consequently fall off in their own colonies in the West Indies.— ( Hear, hear.) And did their Lordship, or did any man, believe, that after this measure should come into opera tion the West Indian estates belonging to the people of this country could be permanently cultivated to the same extent and the same amount as they were cultivated and carried on at the present moment ? The effect of this measure would be the exportation of 10,000 or 20,000 additional slaves from the coast of Africa. And for what purpose would those 10,0( 1 0 or 20,009 additional slaves be exported from the coast of Africa? For the very purpose of increasing the slave trade in the Brazils and Cuba. Let their Lordships look to the gr, at expense and loss of life to which this country had been put with a view of preventing the traffic in the people of Africa. He admitted, with his Noble Friend, that our present cruisers on the coast of Africa, great and vigorous as had been their exertions in the attempt to extinguish that system, had been subjected to great 'loss of life, but he believed at the same time, that all their exertions and all the money expended by this country in the suppression of slaves was but benevolence, and philanthropy misdirected.— ( Hear, hear.) Let her Majesty's Ministers speak out upon this question,—(Cheers.) This country had already expended 20,000,000/. in purchasing the freedom of some slaves, and yet the horrible system of slavery continued, despite their expenditure and the gallant conduct of their cruisers. We had uound foreign countries by treaties to join with us in the suppression of the slave trade, and yet her Majesty's Govern ment were actually at that moment proposing a measure which would further the avaricous designs of the slave trader, and defeat and stifle all our previous efforts in the cause of emancis pating the slave.—( Hear.) Such conduct would justly lay us open to the charge, not simply of extreme folly, but actual hypocrisy.—( Hear, hear.) If this measure were carried, the Government must then withdraw their cruisers from the coast of Africa. Who would believe, then, that this country that had expended such enormous sums, and sacrificed so much human blood for the extinction of the slave trade, would now propose a measure actually approving of and sanctioning that very system ? This country would, undoubtedly, become the laugh ing stock, and the ridicule of every people and every nation on the face of the earth.—( Hear, hear.) They would subject themselves to the contempt of every human being, as the grossest and most absurd hypocrites, who would act so incon sistently and unjustly for the purpose of saving id. in the price of every pound of sugar, and a slight and temporary augmentation of the revenue.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend opposite had said, in the course of his speech, that he was ready to make any sacrifice for the purpose of putting an end to the slave trade—( Lord Clarendon, " Hear, hear")—and the one sacrifice that he was called upon to make was one half-penny per pound in the price of sugar.— ( Hear, hear and laughter.) But that it a pp eare d was t oo great a sacrifice for the morality and philanthropy of the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.) What did the very Com missioners of the Government themselves say on the subject of the traffic in slaves exported from Africa? Her Majesty's Commissioner wrote from Havannah, in the course of last year, that there had been a considerable reduction in the exportation of slaves from Africa in consequence of the low price of sugar, which was occasioned by its exclusion from the British markets—( Hear, hear)—that it was not their cruisers on the coast of Africa that had produced this effect—( Hear, hear) — but the laws pessei by the Legislature of this country, prohibit ing the introduction of slave-grown sugar into this country at the same rate as the produce of free labour.—( Hear, hear. ) There was another point on which he should like to have an answer from her Majesty's Government before he sat down, and that was, whether they intended to remove the restrictions and differential duties upon foreign goods? His Noble Friend had said that they were not afraid that the West Indian colonists would not be able to compete with slave-holders if free immigration was permitted. He should like to know what sort of immigration they meant, because, at this moment, there existed rio obstacle to prevent any man from any quarter of the world entering the West Indies as a free labourer. He wished to know what they meant to do with the coast of Africa, because it was from that quarter that the slave holders contemplated supplying themselves with slaves. He wished to know what restrictions on immigration the Govern ment proposed to remove. He presumed that they cid not in tend to permit the exportat ion of slaves from the coast of Africa. They would prohibit the slave trade, but they would encourage all the horrors of slavery iu the interior of Africa. What did Government mean by conferring this boon of unrestricted immigraeion upon the West India colonists? His Noble Friend had alluded to the circumstance of sugar being introduced from the slave countries into this, and exported by the mer chants of this country into other countries. He ( Lord Stan ley) contended that by such a mode they did not encourage the growth of a single pound of slave-grown sugar ; they were merely the carriers of the sugar, and had nothing whatever to do with the consumption of the article. The West India co lonies of Spain had been next alluded to by his Noble Friend, as deriving some benefit from our treaties with Spain. Those treaties did not apply to the merchandise of the ' colonies ; they applied only to the subjects of the co.onies, ;and in that sense the court of Spain alway s i n t er p re t e d . them. As to the treaty with Brazil, there was no provision whatever in that treaty for the admission of sugar. He objected to the time at which this measure was introduced, because he believed that it could not go forth to the country as a permanent or well-considered measure. He felt satisfied that although the desire to obtain sugar at one halfpenny per pound might be prevalent during the present free-trade mania, still the country would not accept of such a boon by the passing of any measure which would render useless and nugatory, or worse than useless and nugatory, all the efforts which had been made for the last twelve years—all the sacrifices of blood and the treasures which had been expended to put down this accursed traffic. He thought it would be difficult to persuade the people of this coun try that slavery would not be increased by adding 25 per cent. to the value of stave-grown produce in Cuba and in the Brazils. He would conclude by moving that the Bill be read a first time that day three months. Bus in the present state of their Lord ships' House, and at that period of the session, exhausted as their Lordships were by the sittings, which had now lasted for more than seven months, and after the unexpected few which was come to by the other House upon th o e wa s ,j u give ten t toth their concerned, nights since, he should not, so far, at least, as h and to one objections to the Bill. entertained the strongest and the gravest 1 should think it right to sotihmaullaetne divide the question,ho should feel it his duty to vote If, however, lrace House upon the l* art he would say " No" to the first Lordships au npyonNob t the recorde T t or thator b te he o wasf dividing. n against the Bill. For sis p reading of this Bill. hisan d iree hostility imperative st h i i t t : y is t °l eit d h l t b e i c e p h r e ih n . : Lord ow , to trade in human beings. There was no doubt that such would be the necessary result of this measure. To talk of ENglA,Nfeltto it declareto be slavery and slave trade with other feelings than those of abhor rence,' those with would be utterly impossible. The Noble Lord who opened the debate had expressed his feelings in that manner ; but he (Lord Denman) thought it strange that parties profess ing such principles should introduce a Bill calculated to pro mote slavery. The GoTeramertt 110 w yfished to reduce sugar tethhipeelle)e°tehoisf England,Bi bwehlioemvinhgeawdoublede been encouragel eon° fg t h connected, e a nwdi one halfpenny per pound, and to increase the revenue. God forbid that it should be done at the expense of the injured and the helpless Africans who were not represented in their Lordskips' House. The Noble Lord then proceeded to read some extracts from the resolutions of the British Anti-Slave; Society, and commented upon that porti,n of those resolutions referring to the failure of the means which had been adopted on the coast of Africa for tt:e suppression of the slave trade. He did r.ot think there had been any failure ; great good had resulted from the cruisers on the coast. The Go vernment were now calling upon the country for pokier to make an innovation upon one of the greatest schemes that had ever been set on foot for the removal of the foulest stigma from the face of the earth. The proposed measure would not only produce misery among the captured, but it would give an impulse to crime in those buccaneering characters who were enraged in this worst and foulest kind of piracy. He did not thick the Government could be justified in commencing this great ex periment of comp-tition between free and slave labour, for it was his opinion that, for some years at least, free labour would be entirely driven from the market. If they multiplied slave grow❑ sugar, they mul , iplied slavery. He could not help thinking, before this Bill was introduced, that they should have given the scheme of emigration, as regarded India, the Mauritius, and other places, a fair trial. He wished to know whether it was intended to apply the principles of free trade to what he believed would be a traffic in bloodshed and crime. There was no analogy between corn and sugar, for one was the produce of free and the other of slave labour. He did not hesitate to express his surprise at the time and manner in which this measure was introduced. The Marquis of LANSDt iWNE said, that in the first place it was said that this measure at the present period was intro. duced, not for discussion, but decision—( Hear, hear)—but he would say that her Majesty's Government would not he doing their duty if they allowed that session to pass without securing her Majesty's subjects an increased allowance of sugar from this source.—( Hear, hear.) They were justified, by the frequent discussions that had taken place on the subject, and by the speeches that were delivered, containing arguments not brought forward for the first time now, but such as had been urged again and again. The preceding measures were inade quate for their object, for he contended that, notwithstanding , the unparalleled expenditure that had taken place, there 'a as left no benefit for any individual. In fact, there only remained a fanciful distinction, leaving the consumer of this country liable to the payment of a larger sum than by the ordinary rate of trade he should be called upon to pay for the consumption of sugar. But the Noble Lord who spoke second in deb .te had said, " You should put this on the prin. ciple of free trade, which it is not, because it will leave the consumer liable to pay a duty of 145." But did the advocates of free trade assert that this country ought to be left without any revenue ? All that was sought was to withdraw the stimu lus to monopoly. They supplied Rio Janeir., with a great por tion of the sugar they consumed. His Noble Friend ought to have remembered, when he talked of bloodshed and crime, that English ships supplied the trade to Brazil. In the course of the last year there were 23,859,000 tons brought from Rio Janeiro alone. Sugar was brought from Rio Janeiro to Russia as well as to Austria. He did contend that they (the Government) in introducing the present measure would diminish slave-grown and increase free-grown sugar. There was, as the Noble Lord opposite, from his colonial knowledge, was aware, a disposition in Cuba against slave-grown sugar, and i n B raz il i n f avour o f free trae in sugar. His Noble Friend had said that there had been a great deficiency in the West Indies in the production of sugar. All that was wanted in that country was the introduction of efficient machinery. Now, he could understand from unquestionable authority that there was a company forming since the introduc tion of this measure fur the purpose of supplying the West In dies with machinery. Now this was done by men of good sense, who were embarking their capital from a conviction that they would be able to realise a large profit on that capital. He did hope thot they would be enabled, with the concurrence of other countries ' to put a final stop to the ac curse d system o f t h e slave trade. There was such a disposition on the part of the Bra zils to do so, and give a fair chance to free labour— that labour which was becoming more fruitful year by year. He had heard that a number of white persons had emigrated from one of the West India Islands to the Madeiras, and there was clearly a manifest improvement in the agriculture of the island ; and he considered that if greater facilities were given to emigration there would not be such a demand for slave la bour, and consequently the present measure would not propa gate the slave trade. He considered that the Noble Lord would treat the House of Commons in a more respectful man ner if he varied his motion, and moved that the second reading be taken this day six months. Lord ASHBURTON said he came down to the House quite prepared to give his vote for the rejection of the measure, if it were the intention of his Friends to divide the House upon it. The great argument by which the measure was advocated was that of free trade, which had dropped from the clouds upon them, and which had shown itself for the first time in the present year—( Hear, hear)—and he feared they would find the fallacy of that measure when it would be too late to re medy it. It had been said by his Noble Friend that the present measure altered the whole colonial system. He agreed in in that statement, for he considered it involved the principle of the use of their having colonies at all. What was the ob ject of colonies? They might have points of refuge for naval power, such points as llalta and Gibraltar ; but the real use of the colonies was to have an exclusive privilege of trading with them ; and the moment that they departed from that system colonies ceased to be of any advantage—( Hear hear.) If the different:al duties were aholisLed in Canada, the gentlemen from Manchester would find that the market for cottons, of which they believed themselves to possess a monoply, would be taken from them. If these principles prevailed, the whole system would be altered, and they would weaknn every de fence of the country. He warned their Lordships, that those who were pressing on these measures upon the country and Parliament, were running the risk of seriously undermining the prosperity of the country.—( Hear hear.) They were told that these reformers, as they were called, would give a new impetus to the English farmer and the West India pl ester— that was, they expected to give an impetus by taking away the reward which should accompany his increased exertion. The question was, whether they would pass a Bill which would open new sources of supply for sugar from two countries, Cuba and Brazil, where slavery and the slave trade existed. That was the point at issue, and that was the question that their Lordships had to decide. He could not conceive that this country would wish to see the continuance of the horrible system of slavery for the purpose of saving a few vile pence in the price of sugar. He believed that the feelings and disposi tions of this country had been totally misunderstood, and that if they could be made to compreher.d the principle of the measure now proposed, they would treat it as they treated the proposal made in the year 1841, when the same proposition about cheap sugar, with other delusions of a similar character, were offered to, and repudiated by them. He should, therefore, withhold his support from this measure. He telt bound to protest against the system which this measure would establish. He also protested against the conduct of those Noble Lords, who intended to vote in favour of this mea sure, merely because they did not wish to disturb the present Government by opposing the measure.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord MONTEAGLE said, in conjunction with the Noble Lord, he regretted that the discussion on this measure should have taken place at so late a period of the session. It had been said, why not postpone this measure till the next session, but he conceived that it would have been a great dereliction of duty had they delayed for one hour the settlement of this great qaestion.—(7lear, hear.) After the settlement of the other great question of free trade, they were hound, with out the slightest delicacy, to propose this measure, which was but a part of the question of free trade. The parties engaged in the cultivation of sugar had already suffered greatly from the delay which had taken place in the settlement of this question. It bad been said that the Legis liture had pledged itself not to disturb the interests of those concerned in the growth of sugar, but what had they been doing during the whole of the last twenty years? They had been continually passing changes, which were but the heralds of future changes —( Hear, hear.) Then he contended that the Government were not only justified in, but actually bound not,to allow this session to terminate without laying before the Legislature such a proposition as this.—.(Hear, hear.) Noble Lords who were opposed to this measure did nevertheless sup port a measure in 1825 which was but the herald of this. Even the Noble Lord himself who had just sat down had frequently stood up in his place in Par.. liament in support of a reduction in the price of sugar. He asked whether any one really believed that the grounds of Noble Lords' opposition to this measure was the present state of political parties in this country ?—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord who had just down had raised one of the largest systems which could be raised, and which could not be discussed in a mere parenthesis. That question referred to our colonies. The Noble Lord had said that if we adopted this system we were about to depart from our present colonial system ;• but that system involved mutual robbery—and were their Lordships desirous of continuing such a system ?—( Hear, hear.) He contented that every colony in our possession ought to feel grateful to the Government for this measure.—(Hear. hear.) His Noble Friend had endeavoured to lay down a principle that it was not right to commence a wrong, although it might be right to continue a wrong. He (Lord Monteagle) did not agree with his Noble Friend in that principle. He did not think, that in a case of right and wrong, such a principle was tenable. It had been sneered at that all these alterations were to be made for the sake of a reduction of one halfpenny per pound in the price of sugar ; but a sacrifice of 800,0001. per annum had been made in the article of cotton for the sake of five-eighths of a halfpenny on a former occasion. The extra. vagance of the popes in the middle ages, in their divi sion of the earth into eastern and western portions, was not to be compared with the egregious folly of that nation which attempted to define, by geographical limits, the morality of the consumption of slave-grown sugar. There was only one other part upon which he wished to call the attention of their Lord ships, and that was the financial state of this country. That might appear consolanry to the superficial thinker on the sub. jeet, but to tho-e who took a deeper view of the subject, it presented a most alarming appearance ; for at present there was a most serious deficiency, notwiths - arrling the Income Tax; and it was therefore imperative that measures of this nature should be passed to avoid the serious consequences that might ensue from this state of things. He thought the present the best mode of meeting that state of things. Lord BROUGHAM said that a fortnight since he had called the attention of the House to this subject, and he had waited through all this debate to hear the answers to those statements which he had then brought forward, but he had waited in van. The fact of his being unanswered, might seem to relieve him from the necessity of making a second statement, or troubling their Lordships again upon this subject. His Noble Friend had gone through all the points of his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley's) speech, evidently actuated by the gardener's motto: " Please net to touch." To take the debate on the second reading was the usual course, b u t th e present course adopted for public convenien ce . B u t h e (Lord Broeg: a troduced the question by anticipation.of b Noble the a r " Lord opposite had not answered danyintrodnc.ed. He ments he (Lord Brougham) should uld properlyhav e did adhere to his former opinions thatschtilialeisnmi been brought in at a proper PetriLl'a new Ge measure n t Government must discussed. It was contended the ing that it was necessary for a new do something. He admitted h to go to the country with, and Government to have something to enjoy the residue os;tneir days. Now, he could butnitdefir)rstaarniyd inno tr t od se u e cerLfo y r itthiswpaus purpose brit brought d why the Bill shouledeubied other purpose he speedily in the other House. Through an their property, and the Noble use. their gone through so rob them of love of justice Lord who openeit e debate said to the unfortunate planters, you are a set of itca les, and therefore they must intro duce machinery amongst them. There were few arguments, for it resulted horn the position of parties, Sir R. P ee l h a d passed the Corn Bill, certainly ; but it was quite on different grounds, and on the im mutableprinciples of hum ar niity. was prepared for c hanges, but he as to . deal He with them. He h ad been for a lone time o in pr c e o r n i fli;tt with the planters of the West Indies, and the he had little syme pathy with them. He, however, loved justice, and therefore he could not but express his surprise when it was stated that this measure was introduced for their benefit. Now, he had received a letter from a valued friend, from which it appeared that he had used machinery. Now there had been a great deal of stress laid upon the fact of a company for the manu facture of mach.nery in the:centre of Jamaica, which was to work wonders ; for such a change as had taken place, in the opinion of the gentleman, was cited as an authority on this subject. That gentleman no longer thought this measure op posed to religion, to the Bible, and to the existence of colonies. There was another fact which belonged to this subject, one which arose out of it—which was, that the West India mer chants have refused to send out their supplies to the planters because they believed this measure would so injure the planters, that they could not depend upon them for their supplies. Sir John Rae said that the West Indians had a perfect right to protection, and that protection should be afforded them. Then Lord Brougham contended, that the whole arguments in favour of the measure begun, continued, and ended in this, e that sugar will be reduced in pi ice, and brought within the capacity of purchase to the people of this country—the price would be lowered, the quantity would be augmented. Now might a man of common sense ask the Noble Lord at the Board of Trade how o p en i ng th e p or t s f or s ugar of all kind s could increase the supply by 30,000 tons or hogsheads ? And how was this increase to be provided for, that was the question? There was but one conceivable way, which was by means of slavery. The execrable e norm ity, th e grea t es t practical evil which the world had ever experienced, must be admitted as an engine for the cultivation of sugar, because the Government %zished to have sugar at a halfpenny a pound cheaper. Why, it was said, did they take cotton, and coffee, and other articles, which were slave grown? Why sugar could not he compared with cotton and coffee; it to he sure was West India cultivatton , but that was all. Dui gentlemen know that these negroes were worked in a gang in a line, with the lash driving the feeble to keep up with the strong ? The question at present was with regard to sugar, and it was no answer to taunt him with cotton and coffee. Let them come with the question of cotton and coffee to him, and be would deal with them ; but because one evil existed, was no reason that another enormous one sh uld be perpetrated. The duties on cot ton and coffee still Existed, and that was enough for him.—( Hear, hear. )—and the duty made a material differ ence. lie would not point out those dreadful scenes which occurred, and made it painful to think that they belonged to the same class of men as those miscreants who were employed upon the slave trade. There was one instance in which a vessel of 110 tons carried 120 slaves, more than one half of whom perished in the voyage. It was ludicrous to compare the slave systems as carried on on the African coast with the American slave trade. What he was going to state with regard to the African slave trade was not merely his opinion, non meas isle sermo ; it wa , the opinion of our own negotiator, his Right Hon. Friend pc. Lushington, who had prayed him not to delay urging the necessity of doing away with the arrangements for putting down the slave trade on the coast of Africa. Dr. Lushington charged tho se w h o were f avoura bl e to the principles of this measure, with being the accomplices of all the tortures which were inflicted on the poor negroes employed in the cultivation of sugar ; and it was the opinion of that high authority, that those individuals were as much guilty of felony as those who fitted out the vessels, &c., for the carrying on the infernal traffic in human beings. He had now discharged a duty which, he was most anxious to p er f orm . H e h a d b een long engag ed in the cause of freedom to the poor negro. It was as a ques• tion of slavery, arid not of slave trade, that he looked upon this measure. lie was told that slave labour could never enter into competition with free labour. He admitted that, but that would not be the case unless two descriptions of labour were in the same position ; one must not have privileges which the other did not possess.—( Hear, hear.) There was an end to the argument about slave labour being able to compete with free unless they were put upon a parallel. He little thoughts that after all that had been done in the cause of humanity by the Legislature of this country, he should hive lived t o s ee the day when he should be obliged to rise in his place in Parlia ment for the purpose of denouncing a liberal Government for encouraging the horrible traffic in human souls. In the words of Lord Chief Justice of England, the conduct of the Govern ment was most extraordinary and unjust. This Bill was un' doubtedly a measure which would have the effect of encourar ing the slave trade, and as such he should certainly sal "Not content" to it. Earl GREY then rose and said that the Noble and Learned Lord had complained that the speech of his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) had not been answered, but when the results of that evening's proceedings would go forth to the public, they would be able to say whether or not that speech had been answered. —(Hear, hear.) But if it had not been answered, he (Lord Grey) would presume to make an attempt to answer the speech. He would appeal to their Lordships whether the Noble and Learned Lord who had just sat down had, during the whole of the time in which he had occupied their Lordships' attention , adduced one single argument against the measure. He hot certainly, after his usual custom, entertained them with maul jokes. This measure he (Earl Grey) contended would benefit the whole of the British population, and ought their Lordships,. without serious arguments being brought forward against, re ject the Bill, and thus deprive the people of this country of that proper supply of cheap sugar to which they were entitled. Bad any Noble Lord ventured to submit that we were bound to exclude the use of slave-grown articles as much as W e should stolen goods ? Not one had done that. Indeed, one of the Noble Lords opposite had admitted that such conduct would he an act of nothing less than Quixotic benevolenc e. They already had slave-grown coffee, &c. A few years sgf the duty on the article of coffee (in the cultivati on of which slaves were employed) was materially reduced. Copper Orel too, was introduced under a r e d uce d d u t y at t h e very t i me the the Noble and Li arned Lord himself was in the Cabinet. But the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) Wa s as slippery as an eel ; there was no catching him ; he said that he knew nothing about this introduction of copper, and vet he re gularly sat in that House every night, and must have been col;' nisant of the whole of th e procee di ngs .— ( H ear, hear.) The effect of their reduction on the slave-grown article of coffee wa s an increase of 34,300,0001b5. per annum. That reductio n had been sanctioned by the N o bl e an d L earne d L or d, and Ye,t that reduction had, according t o th e N o bl e an d L earn ed Lord argument, tended to the increase of the stave trade, but o_ , l all these reductions on slave-grown arti c l es , h e pro f es sed a happy ignorance —he pretended to know nothi n g a b ou t them.—(ll%, hear, and laughter.) He had in hi s h an d a r eturn o refined sugar, and he found that in 1845 they had export, was 273,000 cwt. of refined sugar, an d th a t 50,000 cwt. of it .s. sent to the British colonies Th e i r L or d s hi ps s hould resne ta yt ber that 99 of that in eve r y 100 was s l ave - gro ve; sug a a r i as e i d was the rankest delusion that ever was attempted to ü by it off upon the country ; in f a ct tho se w h o h a d been d en ied that had become ashamed of it. H e f u lly an d en tirely hain,rd this the measure would encourag e th e s l ave trade, would endeavour to show them that by Pa55.-o end measure they would go far to put an t that t t . free e He l e a b c o o u n r c e w i s e d n , o tthaabtl ablate f t o th c e e y4 , r e o t c o l a w i t e h d 4 b a y v e t h l a e b i r o , n dr the! would be doing a vast injury to the cause. Such was not t h e language of Mr. Wilberforce —sizch was not the language o f the anti-slavery party. He, for his part, still believed that free labour, properly encouraged, would be able to compete with slave labour. It was his opinion that India would yet banish slavery from the market; and even with regard to the West Indies, he did not hold the gloomy and desponding views which some gentlemen took upon the question. On the contrary , his expectations were cheered by the knowledge of the facts which he had stated. The West Indians would now know what they were to encounter, and they were not so desponding as the Noble Lord ; on the contrary. they were luckily them selves up for their tasks, nor did they fear it. These reports would most admirably repay their Lordships' perusal. It showed e that it was only by men, whose intelligence had be n t developed, who had received the truths of Christian it y' that they could expect to receive the due a mount. 2 0 la l labour.—( Hear, hear.) The Council of Jamaica ' l ' adopted that principle, and were carrying it out in Pr''" tine. The company who was about establishing a manufactory y for machinery in Jamaica was sneered at. It had been said that it had existed long before this measure was introduce d ' but there was nothing in the horizon which portended the coming event. This measure would introduce p a division big who ; for it would give rise to a demand for several ager ki ; who were not now in existence, and who could not posi; exist under a state of slavery.—( Hear, hear. ) He believed that there was a great number of planters ready to take up tog subject, and proceed upon it with vigour. The intention iv., to put all parties on an equal footing. The reason theY,r a , not sweep away at once these differential duties was, that it apprehended that some financial difficulty would arise t bv:t tn l e a Noble Lord at the, head of her Majesty's Government: efU ie u d , gladly avail him se lf o f an y pl an b y w hi c h t hi s cou ld to avon' rhe Lord BROUGHAM said he had a right to explain. ; a s Noble Lord had stated that his opinion on that subject syse fop that no man woma n , or c hild, i n th e country, wou ld c are J eri But it wo u ld surpr i se th e H ouse to l earn that the. Anti- 0 , 3 0 / r d. Society had se l ec t e d hi m to present a pet i tion to their 1:000, ships, and asked hi m t o s i gn hi s name to one of the i r petitjjetl, The cl - arge that had been made against him ws.s t nafoun ri o f for he had giv en hi s ass i s t ance to hi s N o bl e F r i end the Vaaa. Ripon on this question, and when the Nolsie Lord s o o r ii ses vented, by an accident, from atte n di ng i n hi s p l ace i n the P ug et the whole weight of the business fell upon him. Heth„°,o is that the Parliamentary re f orm b e i ng b e f ore the ile-h-ips• 1831 was sufficient to occupy the att en ti on o f t h e i r Lords th i s Lord ASHBURTON said h e w i s h e d to know measure applied to shipping. Earl GREY said, that was a ques ti on em b rac i ng suc : h prehensive topics th a t w ith th e i r Lordships' permigi l i; „„l en' would decline answering th e quest i on. Wi th respe ct WP gagements, the reaso n o f th e termbeing fixed at a rt r that it should be of that duration which would not inau'Ll o nt to break it. What they proposed was, to give the Governments an opportunity of coming to an arre n go - ss satisfactory to the parties employed. That, howeve r h ' er +.1 , 1 matter to be settled by the colonial authorities, r at „, - 0 00e,% . to be attempted to be regulated by her Majesty's; Gr i- o Lord ASHBURTON said, that taking away all P yublic ;1 from the colonies was a subject so important to the eo r n tion - large that they should be acquainted with the in ters Government. co o, Earl GREY stated the Government would, of • to e° propose to remove the differential duties. ses' l° d b ° Lord STANLEY said that under the British P c r , gad e uniform rate of duty was fixed for all the col°l., ° esc e ' thought it right, under all the circumstances of I.'" tiles up.. provisions of that B i ll s h ou ld b e a dh ered to, ea to ha d, Earl GREY said that, so far as allowing the ro oent restricted competition was concerned, the Ckfi e made up their mind on the suect. Lord STANLEY wished to bj know whether the 63°111°11e:1 thei r t to have the power of levying duties, according tn uniforni ra e different and conflicting interests or whe t . h ,r; a " of ditty should be enforced upon the eo lo a ni i, e apared upon that Earl GREY—No Bill was not I e subject. riosug too ht bad that a Bill on eel' Lord STANLEY thou gbebfor ward after the portant a subject should be August. wi .bed to know wheth er th e c ruiser s Lord DEN w ere to be continued. the coast of Afric& r tainly. Earl GREY'ds from Lord STANLEY and Ea rl 154g-sl. f' s° differential duties, of yi d t o r the A f s t u e b r i ß e a f i t i wa s read a first time. Lord StaßleY then arraneed that the amendment of nd gaging The _ W 8.5 should be put upon the motion for the sec° ene mo no.. instead of uponaitihde_flf.sot reading, in accordance wj ti & nl re .n on li s i • be of the House, read a second timeuount BiLliobredreSadTANLE Y T t h ( u .lo r t s t d r ,a te y sy ne t x o t t . he House.. The Ear of CLARENDON then moved that the the' th at uii• moved as an amendment, that `" that day three months. He was anxious objection should appear on the records of the House - an d theigr Several oth er Bill s were then forwar d e d a stage , Lordships adjourned at Half past One o'oloek. BIR On the 7th inst., at Sandgate, the lady of F. D. Esq., of a ghter. On the 7th dau inst., the wife of T. R. Kemp, the ESq'' fay 191 P i. Dr° On the Bth inst., at Myddelton-square, la Golding Bird, of a daughter. ----- MART:JED, Yorke, E:A., of Goddigg, 'N' - ' • W ' r j On the Gth inst., at Wallasey Church, Cheshire, SIIII°II second daughter of Colonel Hon." Sir Edward and Lad,viitil On the 6th inst., at the Collegiate Church of B° F t "-a vie S : Notes, George. son of James Hairdock Hill, Esq* , o ' of Venerable George Wilkins, field-street, Notts, to Georgina Hay •. daue-hter 0. - Marine, t, r . f liaras t 0 Victoria Mary Idoisst: D. D., Arclideaco" 0 I n /ED - of Jane, at T . America, 13/1111 On the ?oth Adams, Esq. ucaeas, South i On the 3d inst., at Sherburne-place, Leamington, eldest daughter of the late J. Pinkerton , E f Tottenha • On the sq., 0 Wilson.. 4th inst , Anna Maria,; wife of John Patten, o Esq., M.P. • On the 6th inst. at B •Thomas Worthington, E45C14 righton, of Hartshorne, Del3l - , aged 49 1* of On the 6th inst ,at - . EI" the vi e Mr. Alfred Wood, ' aged 27. _Newington-place, • m in, __........ Carolir Loud N r r , 112 Condon: Printed and Published by 1111711,130 YOUNG, 01 Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, N 0.112, Strand, in the Pre Savoy, of the 11 1846. 00 County of Aliddlitoox, TuopclitY. 0101. v