The Sun. — London, England, 1837-11-21 00:00:00

se a fro m coalition * and I require • put to you this question, that th e j ° r 4 a distin c t declaration, for if it is intended tfloati e shall be a c oa li t i on , i t i s right that the people of the S ee d, should not be taken unawares.—( Hear, hear.) Since a fa et i" Of 1833, the Opposition in this House has assumed Ri g h t ',Ts character. Wi.at was the language of the myself ir:!ati?nrablo Baronet then? I have been amusing Nat s e s u.'og over some of the speeches that were made in gate w e ' ' n and a most entertaining work it would make. as en d Gentlemen professing one thing one time and Of t h e at another. Th e Right Hon. Baronet said °PPosition of that day that they selected the Peopl e ' s ' that were already practically decided, and that %dr eg s n'inds were made up upon ; but that they dare not B ept er 4 the Ballot, the extension of the Suffrage, the not en "' Act, or other questions of a vital nature— la th e C ; of those questions h.,s been touched upon Th e R .'Peeeli which we have just heard read.—( Hear.) Prosp e 'g ht Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) said, I offer the io civil continued peace, reduced estimates, improvements went or Jurisprudence, reform of ecclesiastical law, a settle -11 the tithe question in Ireland, commutation of tithes t e d r g es a _nd, a removal of any real abuses in the Church, and 5 .,.°f those grievances of which Dissenters justly corn- Rte ss i en I. offer you a steady though very cautious pro- The R i the march of improvement.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Radiant Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) is almost froe t - th ' e a sn i Reformer in comparison with this Speech is this Throne Laughter.) There is not a single thing for i t 'Peach, th a t s h ou ld i n d uce a Radical Reformer to vote Itiartaiii.nisrtrtahtiaOni.s calculated to give confidence in the prese n t I fear in this Session a renewal of those le th e and rancorous proceedings, which have been exhibited Wai t :, House d ur i ng t h e l ast three sessions—proceedings ey e , u&ve lowered the character of this House in the dene e °f , the nation and withdrawn from it the cora desire of the people, inducing them to believe that all the at ee ' of public men is to obtain office—to hold the seals of Of et _ Pocket the fees of office—and dispense patronage tlie t f r e i ; It is fit that the delusion should he dissipated, and t 4 rist ot , er e bc any who believe that the leading members of the 4nterea-,racY of this [louse are disposed really to advance the tes ti% S of the people, tlsat the people should know what the thea t. e ", of the Aristocracy are actually disposed to do for thee, Rork 1829 we commenced, as it appeared to us, !Ilse ° l ;„°f Reform by passing the Catholic Relief Bill. When NA L " was before the House, the language of the Right B aronettlst aa : (Sir Robert Peel) was of the most conciliatory li eus --. o angua ge o f a s i m ilar description was held in the the 4 .7 5 . f Peers.—( Hear hear.) They wisely thought that Lot s i l i da tenanee of a particular form of religious belie f ou g ht eajo sai any part of this kingdom, to be an obstac le to the ah e ut of any civil office. I allude to this , because it o wep eople the deep-seated working of factious strife, unless the itta th are allowed a full representation of their opinions Perl of t" e 'r ititerests. (Loud cheering.) Ireland at that a nd t i; was in a state, if not of turbulence, of extreme agitation, for e , e Right Hon. Baronet was compelled to yield to the mes a e t . Popular controul.—( Hear, hear.) But the alto i e re was brought forward in this House in such a manner to earr ad to th e b e li e f th a t any person was sincerely desirous eth er Y oat its operation to the fullest possible extent. And 1 3' e q u alY beieved that the HOLM of Peers was animated l ead e sinecl l rsst feeliags.—( Here the Honourable Member the House extracts from the speeches of the Duke of 'ffeei ri g t° h , Lord Lyndhurst, and Sir Robert Peel, to the f u g .that the intention of the Bill was to secure DasseQtall equality to the Irish Catholics.) That Bill has been t eatl io d p eight years.—( Hear, hear, hear.) . Are the Irish ba rn emancipated ? Are they not at this moment de of th e . "m the enjoyment of corporate rights in consequence the -". b eing Roman Catholics ?—( Loud cheers.) Then, in thi a ;,, e sent state of this Houee, can Ministers expect to pass roe st Vnicipal Bill ?—( Hear, hear.) The people of England erne; " appealed to upon this question, and not the Aristo sautlecr(Lo.ud cheers. ) it suitable that this q uestion Whi eti been introduced into a speech eve r y other line of ri pa 'night hav e been written by the most determined and fr atieu r a's Tory ? (Cheers.) Without an extension of the 4g e L ise t is not l eOssible that this Bill shall pass.—( Cheers. ) mo ney expended in the late elections—the Spottiswoode, fr or ! -- .,(Cheering from the Ministerial side , and " Oh, 0h,,, Peoaf" "': Opposition)—had all the same object, to prevent the e from deriving, any advantage from that Bill. An on. t ar " l ' e t ( Sir F. B ur d e tt) I observe smiling; an Honourable aern n e net who m uc h re s e mbled bins w as my Representative eaano Years ago for Westminster—( Loud laughter)—but t be the same individual, for, alas! the remains of the 1 gentleman w e re buried in Wiltshire.—( Great cheer :44nd loud l aug ht er .) It is often said that there is a Je ineollgrUOU2 mixture at this side of the House. sill Tomes succeeded in 1829 in passing the Catholic Relief and in 1832 they became conformers, when the Reform Bit Passed. Th ey succee d e d i n making - the Emancipation th a , a dead letter, and it is now their interest and endeavour of tie fruit should arise ; but really I think on the other side (Ileacthe House there ie. no very smooth amalgamation.— ~ and I el ter ) One Gentleman was my political h * aug_ter)—a . nd we laboured together in the cause It 4 tilcal Reform in 1818, 1819 . , and 1820.—(Laughter.) e had great difficulty in restraining his zeal. —(Loud laugh . ter) 1 -le brought forward motions in this House for Annual i t `t r dareents, ° Universal Suffrage, and the Vote b y Ballot. Can ue U '1)1e that any g en tleman who entertained these opi tlierts.sotisosu' id now desire that the people should reap no fruit e r n their new charter, the Reform Bill ?—( Loud cheers.) s e i 2 o , 4 Y r the people of England have been deluded to this hour and I, - erenee to public questions and par ties in this House, nassL at it argues badly for the honour and cha racter of this arid an d' for the peace of society. and the security of life "alted "Vert Y• When there is a disregard manifested by pri nc i ple Personages for what is called public honour and there • -- (Loud cheers) —Will it, can it, be believed H that wh o - at least one person sitting on that side of the House th 14 th e year 1819 represented the Tories of England zr.d, wh os e greatest monsters. that ever existed in the • 1 Narbs t n object was to destroy the people ?—( Loud cheers.) th at e Parties are united in this unnatural manner,. it is a proof the u e ,, People of England have lost their due weight and in- Tee - s ee , in this House, and that the Reform Bill has failed to the object which its framers had in view.—( Cheers.) h d e 1 as failed, why have not Ministers the . courage to so cial.° _ rt ith alt is impossible to maintain their position that Bill existing as it does. In this House, as out of e e i tL t he Radical party have ever been desirous of . speakingt eil e ue ut disguise. We have been accused of lending ase - l tu e rtid to the present Ministry. I have lent them my e b etter assistance frequently - , from a belief that they made ld 4 ,.Jette r set of Ministers than gentlemen opposite useful , CI that they are desirous of promoting many ; but I contend that the people of England are not to p t c, e 've these Reforms as donations at the hands of their Re sea-Patatives but that they have a right to expect that laws h i e " b i e ,enaetCd founded upon just and equitable bases, and that t u i Ti feudal distinctions disgraceful to civilization will be Ikka,°l.4"ed•—(Cheers.) In the Address there is no mention —e of the Repeal of the Corn Laws, or of the law of prime (Loud laughter from the Opp osition Benches.) L to glad to hear that laugh—it shows what the p eople are ecp u e p e o t n from those Gentlemen.—( Hear, Beall hear, hear.) her Majesty's Ministers to protect the people from fro 'rots grasp of the Tories—(Hear, hear, and Laughter eatrnt e tbe Tories)—l do not speak as the en em y of the Exe ef-vGovernment ; on the contrary, I wish to be the friend the Minist ers . I hope that the Noble Lord (t he Seere aarY for the Horse Department) will give us in his spee ch rel i lli ght some manifestation of his opin i o ns, which ma y Thron e us from the gloom which the Speech from the is calculated to throw upon the Reformers in this oe 'lse •—(llear hear.) The Gentlemen upon the other side hthe. House ha v e been accustomed in their spe eches from the a r °oe to hold out hopes of liberal policy ; and I know not p e , Thi t heY have managed to delude an immense mass of the capt;',, e nr this country.—(Laughter, and loud cries of " Oh, ati ehi lr rno the Tories, which was responded to by vehe to i;` cheers from the Liberal Benches.) Gentlemen seem th e e amused ; but let me ask them how long do they think wh e - Ypould be in office before the people would be freed from th e delusion ? If 1 ask the farmers what do they . expect i from the Tories, they tell me " Oh, there's the Marquis of Cha s nd s oa r k ee will give us the Repeal of the Malt Tax ; and there Peel, he sees all the evil consequences of his mischievous Currency Bill, and he will relieve the country by giving us t .e t one -pound notes a ain.—(" Oh, oh," from the Tory . side.) But vo e . " not the Ho g use very well know that Sir Robert i ear.) A n t not give them the I/. notes again ?—( Hear, hear, th e d° we not all know how adroitly he managed to l prevent ' ts ca4orturssetroyt.( gig peal of the Malt Tax in 1835. But the speee of this Hear. a good Tory speech—it is not the speech of a Reform ) No Minister determined to go upon a R \ eform with a firm step and an honest mind would nlate t t : i" s uch a Speech. Believing t hat the p eo p le will never or th in tile reforms which they need , wit hout the amendment rn "e t ,; e A ct of 1832, I wish to propose t hree distinct amend oPon the Address the House has beard read.—( Great tlv eeter. I am sincere in making three distinct amend- Weak,:,""or wish to deprive Gentlemen of the o pp ortunit y of N l l excuses f o r no t voting' on the three, as they si' t l if I had put three distinct questio ns in one thee--meet. Gentlemen might say to their constituents that / or / k would have voted for the Ballot, but they could not vote taie u f ri dged Parliaments—or, again, that t hou g h the y would fen s ' or the extension of the Suffrage , t he y would not vote hay '"e Ballot. Th e y would say—confound h i m , I would Voted for some of his measures h ad be p ut them w ay r Hear.) The first of those amendments that this Ilouse embraces the earliest opportunity Pre • but tiblY assuring her Majesty that it will in the s eties en.t session take into consideration the state of the repre • c , tio n .1 PI. "1 th e people in this branch of the Legislature with s ay e t " to the extension of the Suffrage. Now, Sir, Ido not beel ga t we shall have Household Suffrage, but if any Mem hass,)l anxious to go for any extension of the Suffrage, I shall his With me—l shall have all those with me who are 1 4e t ° ,; Is for Household Suffrage ; and if there be any t !ate % `, l ' er (and I fear there are but few) who desire to to a , - the Suffrage still farther, they surely could not objectis, that a mendment a mendment such as this. My second amendment. fitll this House embraces the earliest opportunity of respect ittl t 'l : a ssuring her Ma'eet • that it will in the p resent Session into consideration coeie the necessity of protecting the people e .ex e • oti n reise of their franchise, by establishing the , mode of th* •by 1r a _ c,n Ballot. —( Loud cries of " Hear, bear. ') The ° De an nment is, that this House embraces the earliest kil l eitaiity of respectfully assuring her Majesty that Ari e ' t Zll± present S -* take into consideration the pro , a _ ls .. essioe, je () epealing tl.e Septennial Act.—( Hear.) Now if s e ,, thee ° t breathings be not carried into effect by Statute, frtr Ylo not ,lbtain an extension of the franchise, and more `t Parliaa lents, and the protection of the Ballot, I be - 44 Y lt is scare el , ossible that the people should derive h er le nt . 4 from . t ) he P pr - o a ce l edings of this . House, and . hope te e t'oa a a J e9 t3''s Miaisters will see that their own existence er -s 'Von these measures, and that they will not oppose fle ntments. If they do, lam quite certain I shall soon see them on that (the Tory) side of the House. I do not say who shall replace them, but I shall regret the glorious opportunity which they have lost of immor talising their own names, and conferring great and vast benefits on the community. But as sure as they now sit upon that (the Treasury) bench, that fate awaits them if they do not change that policy which they have hitherto pursued. The Hon. Gentleman then handed up his amendments to the Chair, and moved that they be inserted in the Address. Sir W. MOLES WORTH felt it his duty to second the amendment of his Hon. Friend, because he thought that the Speech from the Throne ought to display to the House the line of conduct which Ministers intended to pursue during the Session, and the reasons which actuated them, so that the representa tives of the people should be enabled to weigh those reasons, and fully consider them. The Speech which they had heard from the Throne was, as usual, but a mere assemblage of words. The framers of the Speech seemed to have made it as obscure as possible ; their whole anxiety seemed to have been to ab stain carefully from the insertion of any words which, by possibility, could raise discussion. No reference had been made to the evils of the elective system ; however, he hoped that the Ministers were ready to remedy those evils, and that they were then prepared to make a declaration to that effect. It was unnecessary for him to enter into any details of the annoy ance and expense of registration under the Reform Bill—as they had all come fresh from the elections it was unnecessary for him to state the manner in which the friends of the Hon. Gentleman opposite had acted upon the advice given by Sir Robert Peel, nor of the manner in which they had made use of the Registration Courts for the purpose of harassing those voters who were on the other side. All those were gross evils, and ought to have found mention in the Speech from the Crown. The late elections had shown that the Reform Bill had been an entire failure.--( Hear, hear, and laughter from the Opposition.) Those elections had proved that all the evils of the ancient system were still in existence—( Hear, hear)---certain people of great wealth had, before the Reform Bill passed, been able to send persons nominated by themselves for the purpose of taxing the people, who bad 110 voice in the reduction. The object of the Reform Bill was to change that system, and to make that which was no representation a real representation ; but its effect had been to place the whole of the counties of England in the hands of the landlords.—( Laughter.) He contended that the Reform Bill had completely failed in its object, and that that House did not represent those classes of the community that it pretended to represent, for in fact the whole of the counties were no better than nomination boroughs.—( Laughter, and cheers.) A great cry had been got up by Gentlemen opposite of reaction, but he denied that there had been any reaction to Toryism, and he would call their at tention in proof of his position to every large constituency in the country--( Hear, hear)—he would ask them to look at Westminster, Birmingham, or Leeds, where the To ries were left in a miserable minority. A feeling of indiffer ence did exist among the people—indifference towards the leaders of the Ministerial ranks, and that indifference was occasioned, not by a leaning towards Toryism, but from a want of confidence in those leaders. The people now feel that it is not worth while to exert them selves. They feel that it is riot worth while to make sacri fices for men who will do nothing to relieve them from the mi sery, demoralization, and corruption, which have arisen out of the old system of abuse. Now was the time, at the com mencement of a new reign, if Ministers were determined to take any steps towards removing those evils, that was most auspicious for their purpose. Upon these grounds he would support the amendment of his Hon. Friend ; and if he should press it to a division, upon these grounds he would feel bound to rote with him. The SPEAKER then read the amendment, and orders were given to strangers to withdraw. Mr. HUME said that he had no hesitation in stating, that in much that had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman near him he cordially concurred. He did not think that her Majesty's Ministers would have shrunk from laying on the table that statement which the House had a right to ex pect, and which the country demanded.—( Hear, hear.) Why had he supported his Majesty's Ministers so anxiously and strenuously during the last Session? It was because for so many years they had professed themselves disposed to effect those reforms in the Church, and also in the va rious departments of the State which were best calculated to promote good government—and because they had stated that the moment they had the power to carry these reforms into effect they would do so. Why had he opposed the Right Honourable Baronet opposite in 1835 ? Because he distrusted those with whom the Right Hon. Gentleman acted, and the professions they made, and because he considered it impossible, even if the Right Hon. Baronet were so inclined, that he could carry out those Reforms shadowed forth in his address. In that address, which was far superior to any thing which appeared in the speech laid before them that day, he had stated fairly and candidly his intentions, and he (Mr. H.) thought that the country would look to her Majesty's Ministers with great distrust when they found that the great questions of the Church and Church-rates, and those amendments to the working of the Reform Bill, which were so essential, were not even mentioned, noticed, or alluded to.—( Hear.) When his lion. Friend called on Ministers to state what their real in tentions were, and to know whether they intended to carry out these reforms, which had compelled him to oppose the Right Hon. Gentleman opposte, he thought he was entitled to some answer. The situation of the House now was very dif ferent from what it was at the commencement of the last Parliament, when the Right Honourable Baronet was on his (Mr. IL's) side of the House. The Monarch was then believed to be unfavourable to the present Ministers, and to the opinions they held. He was believed also to be favourable to the Right Hon. Gentleman, and as he himself declared, he retired possessing the full confidence of Isis Ma jesty, and merely in consequence of a majority of that House being against him, which prevented his carrying certain mea sures into effect. On that occasion he acted from a convic tion that there was a hostile power in that House, deter mined to carry through those reforms which the people required, and which were imperatively demanded for the prescrvatioa of good government, and the peace and security of the country. If the present Ministers wished to enjoy the confidence of the people, they must pass those measures of Reform which were demanded—they must pro tect the franchise, and enable the people to enjoy the fruits of their industry under a good government. It was therefore unfair, now that they had a Court which was understood to be favourable, and a Ministry which possessed the confidence of the Sovereign, to withhold such information. They had a right now to expect from her Majesty's Ministers that candid, manly, open declaration, whether they intended to do any thing or not—(Hear, hear, and laughter)— or what reforms they would carry through. There were se veral questions arising Out of paragraphs in her Majesty's Speech, meagre as it was, which should be answered before that House could agree to it. He wished to ask the Right Honourable Gentleman below him what he intended to do with those questions which be thought so important to be laid before the House as essential to the welfare and peace of the country. In the Right Hon. Baronet's speech he had dealt with the subject with great candour and fairness, and he had stated the extent to which he would go. and the point at which he would stop. Let het Majesty's present Ministers do the same.—(Opposition cheers.) Let the House understand what they mean—let the country also understand it, and he had no hesitation in saying that if they were honest in what they proposed, they would meet with the general support they deserved. He would read two or three sentences from the speech of his Majesty to that House four years ago. —(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Honourable Member here read some extracts from his Majesty's speech on that occasion, in which the attention of Parliament was directed to the state of the Church, more particularly as regarded the temporali ties and maintenance of the clergy—to a change in the tithe system, and to consider what remedies might be devised for the correction of acknowledged abuses, and whether the re venues of the Church might not admit of a more equitable and just distribution. He (Mr. 11.) would now ask the House, after the lapse of four years, during toe discus sions which bad taken place connected with the Church, and those discontents, and those acknowledged. and avowed abuses which had been alluded to in his late Majesty's speech —he would ask, had they been remedied, or even fairly met ? The tithes was the only point of all those connected with the Church which had been fairly met. The Noble Lord, the leader of that House, brought in four bills as essential to the good government of the Church—let him now state to the House whether it was his intention to renew those Bills—was it his intention to carry out those reforms, and reform those acknowledged abuses which he bad said existed and ought to be corrected.—(Opposition cheers.) Ought they not now to demand of the Ministers what was their intention with respect to Church-rates ? No allusion to the grievances of the Dissenters had been made in the Speech. Ile (Mr. H.) had supported the present Ministry, and he hoped to be able still to do so, because it would give him great pain to see them leave their places ; but he would ask them on whom did they rely for support ? Was it on the opposite party ? Certainly not. His late Majesty had placed the Right Hon. Baronet opposite in power, but it was the people who had brought back Lord Melbourne and his colleagues to office.—(Ministerial cheers.) It was therefore their duty to adopt such measures as would carry out the reforms which were demanded by the people. What situation were they now placed in? The people had bailed vo o t f er th w at would be House protected, and b y w the passing of the Reform B ill as the means b y which the representation ic h the suffrage would be extended —by the -ded--by ec"lr would be fairly an d honestly given to them. m.The example of the last two or th ree elections ought to have convinced the Right Hon. Gentlemen that the Bill had altogether failed for uch or to 30 40, teow such purposes ; and wh en be saw the majority of the people in that House dwind led down from 150 rate at which they at pre sent were—( M laughter f l ow the Opposition Benches) —it w as because they had a small majority that he ca lled the attention of Ministers d that he entrea ted of them to follow the object o f his H to the present question , an _ h men, her Majesty's Mnisters If experience could ever teac i onourable F riend. had bad a lesson read to them. He considered them bound i n consistence with their original determ ination when the 8 . 11 was introduced as an experiment, or a tr ial as it had been termed.—( Cries of ..Oh !" and much laughter.) By some it might be considered a final measure, but it was insult to any man's understanding to consider it such, or to declare such a thing.—( Renewed laughter.) No measure could be declared final in a representative body like that which was daily moving on and progressing, and he would sty that that man was a fool who could suppose such a thing.—(Rears of laughter.) Ile Is as glad to find the Noble Lord below dissented, because on the introduction of the measure, he had admitted the necessity of its not being final, and in confirma tion of that he had introduced several amendments last Session.—(Hear, hear.) He would now only ask of the Noble Lord to extend his vision a little farther, and see what had been the result Of the late general elections.—( Hear, hear, from the opposition.) It had been to overpower the free and honest Suffrage of the people— ( Much laughter from the Opposition Members) —by the most improper influence ; by intimidation, by bribery and corruption -( Laughter and cheering from the same quarter)--and he would say, that the Bill having failed to give that, which Ministers held out, protection to the voter, that he might exercise freely and honestly the trust reposed in them, Lord Melbournt and her Majesty's Ministers were bound now to give there that protection which they had promised, and the people had every right to expect. They had now in that House Hon. Members arrayed in nearly equal numbers, and he would ask the Noble Lord whether he had acted wisely in advising her Majesty to make such a Speech as that which was now laid on the table. The people were entitled to the free exercise of their rights, and he had seen so many cases of oppression, and cruelty during the late election, that if another took place without that protection being extended to the voters, the power of the present Ministers would be completely annihilated. H e (Mr. II.) therefore, because he was anxious to see her Ma jesty's Ministers continue in office, wished them to take up the question of the Ballot, by which the honest exercise of the franchise would be protected. Let it not be any longer left as an open question—let them bring it forward as a Cabinet measure, and try it fairly before the House. Unless that measure of vital importance and first of all rearms be carried, it was in vain for the Right Hon. Gentleman or the Noble Lord to hope that they could maintain their standing in that House, o r be supported by the country. It had been stated by the Noble Lord that no constituency under 300 would'be allowed by the bill, and yet boroughs were at present suffered to exist with consti tuencies of only 200 and even 150. His Hon. Friend was therefore quite right in bringing that question before the attention of the House, and he deeply regretted that her Majesty's Ministers did not see, in the furtherance of that question, their own strength. Upon the people alone they could rely, and if they took from the people their support election after election their fall would be inevitable. —(A laugh.) It was because he (Mr. H.) was anxious to avert that fall that he was anxious to see the Bal lot established as well as Triennial Parliaments, being convinced that short reckonings make good trustees.—( Hear, hear. )—There were one or two other points in the speech upon which he should like to have some explanation before they proceeded farther. Some allusion had been made to the province of Lower Canada, and he regretted that neither the Hon. mover or seconder of the Address had thought fit to enlarge en that subject. He thought Ministers should explain what their inten tions were. After the resolutions that had been passed, tyrannical and unjust as they were, the Commissioners had told them that if the House of Commons agreed to the resolutions, by a large majority, the Canadians would yield. He (Mr. H.) and his friends had told them the contrary, and what hail been the re sult? They had excited in that country a ferment never equalled. He wished to know what were the measures Government al luded to in reference to Canada, that that might guide the House in some degree. There was another subject he wished to ask a question upon. Her Majesty in her Speech stated that she placed unreservedly at the disposal of Parliament those hereditary revenues which had been enjoyed by her im mediate predecessor. The House had been led to believe in the first instance that this included the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster. He hoped it was so, but yet if the words "immediate predecessor" were to be strictly construed, it might be supposed that it was intended that they should be held, during the present reign, as during the last. He was sure it would be in the recollection of many that when this was made a reservation, when William IV. ascended the throne, the utmost indignation was felt by the Liberal party of the House; and he wished to know whether the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duchy of Cornwall were to be held now as during the former reign ;to be mismanaged--to be plundered es before. With respect to the Civil List, he was one who had always been an active promoter of the change that had taken place last Session. He was one who never wished to see a sum put down to the account of the Sovereign, merely to swell that account, which was not to be applied to his own use. He was not one who wished to narrow the income of any official, much less the in come of the Chief Magistrate of this great country ; therefore he was willing to join in the answer to be returned to her Ma jeety, that the House would willingly provide for the necessary expenditure; but in saying this the House and the Ministers had a duty to perform most important to the future interests of the country. They would have to consider that the settlement of the Civil List would have to rest on principles perfectly diffe rent from those on which it rested in the time of 'William IV. We were now in a situation somewhat analogous to the state of things which existed at the time George the Third succeeded to the Throne, and therefore the Civil List must be settled on a similar footing to that on which it was settled on that occasion. The question then arises by what test should they try the pro position for the Civil List, and by what rule we should mea sure the amount. Her Majesty's Ministers should recollect that the Civil List was greatly augmented on account of the alteration of the currency. Indeed, Sir, nothing could be more unsatisfactory than to look back to the alterations and augmentations_that took place in the Civil List in the reign of George 111. —( Hear.) I should wish to grant the most liberal alowance, but I think that when once fixed it ought not to b 3 exceeded. The expenses of her Majesty, it is true, are not now so great as they may be at a future time, or upon an alteration of her state. But Ido not think that:the practice of paying debts of members of the Royal Family who have exceeded their income ought to be allowed. I believe that the pay ments of such debts, which occurred eight times in the reign of George the Third, only led to the incurring of other debts, and to encreased extravagance.—( Hear, hear.) I hope that the establishments connected with the Throne will be carefully scrutinised, for if extravagance be allowed in them, the House will not be able to give that relief to the people which I am sore her Majesty is most anxious that we should afford. lam particularly sorry that no mention has been made in the speech from the Throne, of any proposed reduction of the expenditure of our military establishments. lam sorry for this omission, be cause it leaves me little hope that such a reduction is intended ; for I know that when any Ministry has any thing useful in view, they never aro backward in putting it forward.—( Laughter. ) The Hon. Gentleman, amidst loud laughter, said, " That is only a little Irishism—a little bull—and therefore excuse able.") He had never seen but once, in 1822 he believed it was, that any good measure in contemplation that was to be introduced during the session, but it was prominently put forward in the Speech from the Throne. He wished to know if they were to have hopes of a reduction of taxation—of a reduction in the army, either of officers or men—any reform in the system of promotion in the army or navy. All these details lie considered essential ; and as nothing was said in the Speech about relief, he feared there would be nothing of that kind introduced. The House eug,ht to tell the Ministers, that the only means of keeping the Tories from office was by affording protection to their friends. The Tories were quite pleased with the present state of affairs—they had done very well at the late election, and only wanted one more trial of the same means ; but he (Mr. H.) wanted to improve the laws now, and so defeat them and keep them from office, for which they longed.__ (Cheers and laughter.) For these reasons be would support the amendment, though he entirely deprecated the policy of his friends dividing.—( Great Cheers.) He doubted that policy, and would state his reason for that opinion. —(No, no. ) The question of the Ballot was not one to be debated by a side-wind.—(Loud cheers.) The question of an exten sion of the Suffrage was one that was of importance enough to be debate singly. As to the question of shorten ing the duration of Parliament, he was not aware that much more could be said on the question.—( Laughter.) But from the speech of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) at Stroud, it appeared there was a quinquineal clause in the Re form Bill, so that they might hope for a five years' Bill— ( Hear, hear) —though they could not get one limiting the duration of Parliament to three years, even that will be better than none. and we must receive it with gratitude if we get it. Although he was quite prepared to agree to the great im portance of those questions, yet he would ask the Hon. Member for Finsbury whether he was likely to do justice to those questions by the course he was taking.—( Cheers.) He thought the notice of his lion. Friend the Member for the City of London ought to satisfy the lion. Member for Finsbury. As to Housshold Suffrage, if nobody else would call the atten tion of the House to the subject, the Hon. Member for South wark has given notice of a conjoint trio of questions.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Some one undoubtedly would give the House a fair opportunity of taking the sense of the House on those questions.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") It was on these grounds, therefore, that while he entirely concurred in the propositions of the Hon. Member, yet he hesitated in thinking the present time was the most opportune for taking the division.—( Cheers. ) Mr. GROTE wished to say a very few words on the subject of the amendment proposed by the Hon. Member for Finsbury ; and although a portion of that which he eras about to state had been anticipated by his Honourable Friend the Member for Middlcsex—',Great laughter)—the Member for Kilkenny— (Loud cries of Hear, bear, hear, and renewed laughter on the Tory benches)—be nevertheless felt it his duty still to say a very few words on the same subject.—( Hear.) In every one of the three amendments which the Honour able Member for Finsbury had proposed, he most heartily concurred—he ir eant in the substance of these amendments; and, most assuredly, if he pressed either one or all of them to a division, he should vote with him, for although he considered the proposition of them at this moment was the very reverse of opportune or seasonable, yet he could not so far disavow the principles he had maintained as to refuse to support them under whatever circumstances they might be proposed. If any Honourable Gentleman proposed the vote by Ballet as an amendment to a Road Bill, he would support that amendment, however unwise it might be at the moment to put it.—( Laughter.) But he would put it to the Hon. Member for Finsbury whether he thought that any satisfactory evidence as to the real intention of her Majes ty's Government could be collected from the fact of their re sisting the amendment that evening. No such evidence could be collected from the mode in which the Hon. Member put forward his amendments, but even though the Government might look favourably on the Ballot, or many other of his pro positions, yet put forward as they were now nakedly, without the opportunity of a preliminary discussion , without a full statement of the case pro and c o vo disposed urable toey eye, look yet at t h e either t mighther o f n, he could conceive that even though the Cabinet w ere sist the proposition of th e m on such an occasion as think h e questions d t u v t i y th tots re the present, and brought forward in such a manner. For these reasons, interested as he was on all these questions, but particularly on one of them, which he had the honour of frequently bringing before the notice of that House ; inte rested as he was in the success of all these measures, he would yet put it to the Hon. Member, whether the course he had taken seas the most likely to ensure that success.—( Hear.) Although he could not concur in the propriety of that course, he agreed fully with the tenor of the hum gentleman's speech in introducing his amendments, and in the obser vations of the other Hon. Gentleman who had followed him. The most important subject of consideration that Ministers coul d bring before the House, and the most pressing of all the-grievances complained of by the country, was the state of the representative systern—( Hear, hear, hear)— not only because it was a grievance in itself, but bechuse it was the source of other grievances. The result of the late elections bad fully demonstrated, that without the aid of the Ballot the representative system would not be sufficient to i 4ustain the present Ministers in power.—( Hear, hear.) Hon , stood the balance of parties at present in that House. Was it not true that no measure, no matter how good in itself, would be suffered to pass the other House unless it was countersigned 'iy the Hon. Baronet opposite ?—( Hear, hear, from the Minis terial, and cheers from the Opposition side of the House.) l'he virtual result of the present system was, that the Honourable Baronet had a veto upon every measure that was introduced in that House by her Majesty's Ministers. This was a painful conclusion.—(Laughter from the Oppo sition.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite might laugh, but such a conclusion could not but be painful and humiliating to him, and to those who thought with him.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was the Conservative principle which was in the ascendant in this Parliament ; that was the negation of all substantial Reform.—(" No, no," from the Opposition ; " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) If this result had arisen from a system of representation which gave to the people of England a full and fair representation he should bow to it submissively, however little it might coincide with his own individual judgment ; but he said that it was not the case.--( Loud cheers.) There was every reason for asserting the contrary.—(No, no, from the Opposition—cheers from the Ministerial side.) He could not conseit to take the votes of tenants and tradesmen, given under the control of landlords and customers as the expression of the opinion of free citizens. —( Loud cheers.) He said that the English public were a reforming public, and if their sentiments were freely and fairly represented, that would be the result which would be maintained. He knew that that would be denied by the Gen tlemen opposite, but he challenged them to put it to the test— to give him any system which would fairly represent the opinions, he would not say of an extended suffrage, but of the existing constituency, limited as it was—( Hear, hear, and cheers)—and there would be returned a House of Commons very different from the present.—(Loud cheers.) He did not reproach her Majesty's Ministers with the defects of the Reform Bill—( Hear, hear)—but if, after the experience of the last few years, they now held to the Reform Bill as a final measure, a consummate measure, an unimprovable mea sure, they acquiesced in the present distribution of political power—in a representative system which deprived them of the power of executing any Reform measure which they might entertain, unless it had the sanction of the Right Honourable Member for Tam worth. --(Loud Cheers.) There was no way of escaping from that position but by rescuing the voters of this country from a system under which the Aristocracy had the real control of the representation of the whole kingdom.--(Loud cheers.) Although, however, upon the gounds which he had stated he ventured to entreat the Hon. Member for Finsbury to withdraw his amendment, it was with the sincere desire that every measure embodied in that amendment might be fairly discussed and received— ( Cheers)--and the strongest belief that by withdrawing it, the Hon. Member would ultimately secure his own object.— ( Cheers.) I concur in the sentiment of my Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex—(Loud laughter)—l mean for Kil kenny, that this is the most unmeaning and unpromising Speech ever delivered from the Throne—that there is little for information—still less for hope. There is one remark which I will make upon part of the speech of the Noble Mover of the Address, in which he seemed to advert to the probabi lity of debts being incurred if liberal provision were not made for the Civil List—and that is, that I protest against the sys tem of paying debts previously contracted by royal personages. —( Hear, hear.) It appears inconsistent with the rules of sound principle and morality that if Parliament provide libe rally for royal persons, they should not set an example of living within their income. —( Cheers.) Mr. LIDDE L said he was one of those who had been al luded to by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, and he rose to say a few words in reply to the charges he had brought forward of their making statements at the hustings inconsistent with their speeches in that House.—( Hear.) As to what he had thought proper to charge in reference to the Ballot, he con curred in opinion with those with whom he acted, that a grosser delusion had never been attempted to be practised on the minds of the publie.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the extension of the Suffrage, he, with his colleagues, was pre pared to stand by the qualification of the Reform Bill, for which his party were not responsible, but which, being esta blished, they did not wish to disturb. Lastly, as to short Parliaments, he was decidedly of opinion that that was not calculated to contribute to public convenience.—( Hear, hear.) As to the repeal of the malt tax, and the disturbance of the currency, the Hon. Member was equally at fault on those two charges, because, as the decision of the House on the last occasion sufficiently proved what was likely to be the fate of any Bill brought in for the repeal of the Malt Tax, so the decision of the House equally spoke in terms not to be misunderstood of what the result would be of any measure to disturb the currency. He could well imagine that those gentlemen who had already addressed the House felt no little disappointment at the extraordinary barrenness of the Speech from the Throne on these subjects. In this respect ha entirely agreed with the House, though he was not disposed to concur with them in the amendments that had been pro posed. At the same time he could scarcely think it possible for Hon. Members on either side of the House to expect any other sort of Speech, seeing that the present Government had been so long in office, and that they had as yet done literally nothing.—( Much laughter.) The Honourable Member for Kilkenny (Mr. Hume) had alluded to the Speech from the Throne in 1835 ; and he (Mr. Liddell) would also advert to it, but with entirely different feelings, and he could only regret—(as we undertood him)—that no similar expression respecting the maintenance of the Esta blished Church occured in the present Speech. He could not refrain from calling the attention of her Majesty's Ministers on this occasion to their own peculiar position in the House. The late elections, in spite of all the influences which could be brought to bear upon them on behalf of the Administration— in despite of the unconstitutional use which was made of the name of the Sovereign—( Cheers from the Tory benches) in spite of the popular and exciting topics, which had been resorted to by gentlemen now on the opposition side of the House, who advocated those extreme opinions, to which one-half or more than one-half of the supporters had thought proper to pledge themselves—in spite of all those things, England had maintained her character.—( Tory cheers.) Ile had spoken decidedly, and he trusted irresistibly, in favour of Conservative opinions.---( Cheers from the Tories) The Reform Bill had been passed for the purpose of overthrowing the Conservative party, and of fixing for ever in their present places on the Treasury Benches, the framers of that Bill. But the people of England were tired of agitation, and finding that the Reform Bill could be made a means of good govern ment, they have returned a majority of Conservatives to this House, and given to Conservative principles a decided triumph. In Scotland, the Reform Bill opened the constituency to all parties, and consequently the Ministers had not obtained a single vote in that part of the Empire.—(Cheers from the Tory Benches.) It was only in Ireland that they had obtained a majority upon which they rested for support. Now, what measures would they be for which Ministers must rest upon a majority so composed, and obtained by such agency?—( Hear.) Here being on the subject of Ireland, he would again refer to the Speech of 1835, and although he did not see in the present Speech those words promising to protect the Church, he was glad he found in it no intimation of hostile intentions towards the Church.—( Hear, hear.) He would ask the Ministers, and lie could assure them that the country was looking with much anxiety to the answer which they might give—(Loud cheering)—he would ask them whether they were determined to maintain the Protestant Church—that the fabric of the Church should not be pulled down by open violence, or the Clergy robbed of their just rights? They had now the support of a Learned and Hon. Gentleman, who formerly was in the habit of denouncing the clergy of his own country. Lately he bad not been so loud in his denunciations, and had written a letter to those clergy, offer ing a settlement of the tithe question—it was a plan full of er rors, and one to which there must be many objections, he would be glad to know if it had been put forth as a feeler, or if it was sanctioned by the Government? That Hon. and Learned Gentleman he supposed had been propitiated by the sops al ready thrown out to him by the Government. He supposed that the political Cerberus who keeps the Keys of Office from his command of so many votes in that House had already received his sop for the support he gave them— ( Loud laughter, amidst which the Speaker told the Hon. Member he was out of order.) If he had trans gressed any of the rules of the House, he was sorry for it , and bowed to the Chair. All he meant was, that the Government had obtained his powerful support in some way or other. Look ing at that support, he would ask, did the Government in tend to throw overboard the Church of Ireland—(oh, oh !) —or were they determined to maintain it in all its in tegrity ? It had pleased the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin to dissolve his Irish Parliament for a li mited time ; that lion. and Learned Gentleman certainly had a Parliament, and had more power than Royalty, for he called his Parliament, and levied taxes on his Irish fellow-subjects at pleasure.—(Laughter.) Was that Parliament dissolved upon any suggestion or communication from any one connected with the Goverment, for most undoubtedly he would receive his quid pro quo for the assistance they had from him? He trusted the Government would answer his questions—that they would speak out on the subject, and at once say in answer either yes or no. Colonel PER CE VAL rose, and was greeted with loud laughter. He was peculiarly called upon to protest against the words " domestic tranquillity" being applied to that por tion of the country with which he was connected. —(Laugh ter. ) He had the honour of representing Sligo, where mur ders were of almost daily occurrence. He therefore wished to keep it open to him, by protest, that upon a future occasion lie might animadvert upon the disgraceful state of that county. Under present circumstances, he would not disgust the House —(Loud laughter) —by entering into details of these harrow ing and disgraceful murders, which were the offspring of mis government.—_( Laughter.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, it is my duty to offer any explanation which the Speech from the Throne may req uire ;_ but I must at th e same time say, while I am ready to a ff o r d these explanations, that in respect to the Speech itself, I wil lingly admit the reproach, if it be a reproach, that the Speech was framed with a view to prevent a course of ad verse discussion. I admit the fault, if it be a fault, that we did not wish en the first day that Queen Victoria has opened her Parliament, in the divided and balanced state of parties, to bring forward questions which might make it necessary for gentlemen, in vindicati©n of their own consistency, and in the promoting their own opinions, to create angry discussion and to carry that discussion further into division. ( Hear.) We did think that upon such an occasion it was desireable that the Queen should receive, if not the unanimous, at least nearly the unanimous address of this House, and that the expression ofour reliance and attachment to tier person, should not be marred and disfigured by the mingling of those questions upon which opinion is known to be divided.—( Hear, hear, bear.) Sir, if this be a fault, if this be a crime in the Ministers, we are guilty of that crime. Now, Sir, to come to my own per sonal consistency which the Honourable Memb. r for Finsbury, who moved this Amendment, was pleased to attack—with respect more particularly to the speech I made in the year 1835—he quoted a sentence which I think did not bear him out in that reproach. lie stated that by maintaining in our Address certain principles and cci tain measures, we should avoid the reproach of pusillanimous weakness on the one side, and of inconsiderate rashness on the other • and, Sir, what is the proposition which the Ho.i. Member for Finsbury makes ? That we should have put in the Speech from the Throne—Ballot in the first place, extension of Suffrage next, a shortening of the dura tion of Parliaments next, the_ consideration of the Corn Laws next, and then the Law of Primogeniture.--( Hear, and Laughter.) Why, then, Sir, if we had introduced all these topics, inconsiderate rashness would have been the proper praise to bestow on Ministers. = (Cheers.) Sir, the circum stances of 1835 are quite different from the circumstances in which we are now placed.—(Hear' hear, and cheers.) The circumstances then were that Lord Melbourne, who was at. the head' of the Administration, and engaged in framing measures of Reform, was dismissed from his Majesty's coun cils, and when Parliament met he stated what the extent and purpose of his measures would have been. Sir, were there any of those measures so exceedingly different from those that we have subsequently proposed? One was Municipal Reform in England. We proposed to introduce Reform into the Municipal Corporations of England ; have we not kept that pledge a--(Cheers.) Is it not now the law of the land, Sir? With respect to another of our measures, it is said that we ought to have removed the grievances under which the Dissenters labour. I say that the Registration and Marriage Acts are a sufficient redemption of that pledge. Another ac cusation against us is that we have not removed the abuses which have impaired the efficiency of the Church establish ment in this, and lowered its character in the sister country. —( Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, with respect to the first part of this question, which relates to England, I do say that if the Honourable Member for Finsbury, and those who agree with him had given us their advice in a shape less difficult to adept, they would not now have anything to accuse us of. The Hon. Gentleman has asked me with respect to why I have not proceeded with a measure with respect to pluralities which was introduced two years ago ? Sir, lam ready to pro ceed with that measure, and would have carried it through, but for the strong opposition which was given to it by the Hon. Member himself at the time. Sir, it is my intention to pro ceed with that measure, adhering to the same principles in which it was befdre founded. With respect to the measure relating to Church-rates, we brought it forward and supported it to the best of our abilities in this House. It satisfied the Dissenters, while it removed from them a grievous burden, did not impair the revenues of the Church Establishment ; and that measure met with great opposition—so great, that it would have been useless to have gone on with it with any hope of success during the last Session. Why, what was said then?—(Hear, hear.) Why, it was said by the Honourable Member for Kilkenny and others—you arc bad tacticians—you have attacked the Church—it was moat impo litic to do so; and similar language was the language made use of by gentlemen who now complained that Ministers did not go far enough. I could show the Hon. Member for Kil kenny, not only from the printed newspaper reports, but from other documents, that he himself said it was impolitic to at tack the Church. Why, did we not know when we differed from the heads of the Church that we were encountering a formidable opposition? We knew that quite well, but still we thought that that was a measure which, if we could have ob tained the favour of the country in, and could have got it carried by popular feeling, would have settled the question in a way that would have been satisfactory to the Dissenters, and which we thought could not hare been injurious to the Church.—( Loud cheers.) The Honourable Gentleman opposite asks rise a question . ; undoubtedly he has not been a Member of this House before, and I really cannot conceive what part of the country he has been residing in. —( Loud laughter.) He asks ins whether we mean to support the Church Establishment? Whv, Sir, I have never ceased to say I would support the Church Establishment.—(Much cheering.) And I dieconsider, and do consider, that if you mean to maintain the great foundations of the Church Estab lishment, the more you can do to prevent discussions and bickerings between the Church and those who differ from its doctrines, the more secure will that Church be—( Applause)— and that though men differ from it in doctrine—though they differ from it in opinion—yet that they will still regard that Church with respect, and look upon it as a means of fostering and promulgating the principles of true religion.—(Cheers. ) These are not the views entertained by our opponents, and therefore it is impossible to say, the measures brought forward last year with respect to Church-rates can be brought forward now with success. There has been much misunderstanding upon that subject, but a Committee which shall look into that question will enable Parliament and the country to decide upon it, and quit the country of a question which has divided Churchmen and Dissenters with g,reat bitterness, and caused the most intolerable injury to the Church and religion g enerally. Sir, the Hon. Gentleman who moved. the Amendment has brought forward questions which have been dwelt upon by other members and which he asks us whether we will support. He has mentioned the Ballot, the extension cf the Suffrage, and Triennial Parliaments.—(Cheers.) He has brought these forward in three separate amendments, avowing that they formed part of the same measures. He has put his powders in three different papers— (Tremendous laughter)— but they must be considered as forming part of the same me dicine.—( Increased laughter.) lam not now, Sir, going into the arguments bye which each of those measures may be supported or opposed ; but I will, with the leave of the House give an explanation of my views with regard to the position of the Reform Act arid its present operation.— I cannot, Sir, be ignorant of the attacks and the injuries to which the Reform Act has been subject. I admit that in the late elections corruption and intimidation had prevailed to a very lamentable extent—(Most tremendous cheering)— that with respect to some parts of the Reform Bill, there are means of making it a great vexation to the bona fide voter— (Cheers) —and that with respect to the registration of voters, in particular, great amendment may be made.--( Cheers.) But these are questions upon which I consider Parliament was always bound to be alive, and see that the Reform Bill did not suffer any essential injury—that any error in detail made in the commencement, might be afterwards remedied.—( Cheers. ) They are questions totally distinct from those three—the Ballot, Universal Suffrage, and Annual Parliaments, which I can consider as nothing else but a repeal of the Reform Act. _(Cheers.) Well, am I prepared to do that? I say, cer tainly not.—(Loud cheers.) With respect to the Registra tion of Voters, I am ready to bring forward (or rather my Learned Friend the Attorney-General) the Bill which was frequently under discussion in this House, and am prepared myself to give every facility for the introduction of the Bill brought into this House last year, in respect to the payment of rates ; but I do say, that having now only five years ago reformed the representation, and placed it on a new basis, it would be a most unwise experiment now to destroy that basis to form a new suffrage, to give a new mariner of voting, and to look for other and securities fur the repre sentation of the people.—( Loud cheers.) At least, for myself I can take no part in that experiment.—(Continued cheer ing.) And I must say, liable as I may be to the somewhat harsh term applied by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, to those who think the Reform Bill a final measure, What are the circumstances under which I consider that I am bound so to regard that measure? When it was brought forward, it will be generally recollected that the cry was that it was too large, too extensive, and radical Reformers were, upon the whole, much better pleased than moderate Reformers with it. But it was the opinion of Lord Grev, stated in the House of Lords, and by Lord Althorp in the Commons, that it was safer to make a large and extensive measure of Reform, and that those who thought that a smaller measure would be preferable, might have this reliance, that in bringing forward that measure, it was intended to be a final measure. Now, Sir, do I say any such nonsense as would entitle me to the appellation which the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Kilkenny has mentioned 7—( Hear, hear, hear.) Do I say that the people of England arc to be debarred from making any alterations in the Reform Bill, or from repealing that measure altogether?--(Hear, hear.) Certainly not. The people of England may of course, by their representatives, repent it if they think fit. But I think it would not be wise in them to do so.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) I think If you were so soon again to alter the principles of your repres.mta- Lion, you would destroy your Constitution.—(Loud cheers.) I ay that I would take no part in 'that re-construction.—(Hear.) I say that, having been one of those who brought forward the Reform Bill, it will be impossible for me to take part in those large measures of re-construction which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wakley) proposes. It would be a breach of faith with all those who took part in the framing and passing of the Reform Bill—if I, who acted with them," with the under standing to which I have referred, should support this amendment. But if the people of England are not satisfied with that course—if they will insist upon the alteration of the Reform Bill, let them place others in her Majesty's councils, who may think it expedient and right to repeal the Re form Bill.—( Hear, hear.) But let them not call on rue to do that which I think unwise and inexpedient,—and which I would not be justified in doing, in justice and honour to those who acted with me.—( Hear.) The Hon. Member who brought forward this Amendment has asked me whether there is to be a coalition ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Now Sir, I can only answer that I know nothing of a coalition. .1 can not say whether or not a coalition is intended by other's ; but if so, I know nothing about it.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) But the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. has rut some questions which relate to the Speech from the Throne, and rot to the amendment. With respect to the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall, to which one of his questions applied, I think, Sir, that the words of the Speech are sufficiently plain. Her Majesty surrenders the hereditary revenues of the Croivn precisely in the same manner as thev were surrendered by his late Majesty—and no further.—( ll- ear from Mr. Hume and others.) I think that there were evils in the management of those fiefs of the Crown. I think there were evils in the management of the revenues arising to the Crown from them, occasioned by the circumstance that the exp enditure cams less under Parliamentary observatie' than the other revenues aud ex penditure. Sir, we propose to get rid of both these evils by pre ducine: all the accounts relative to the management of these revenues, and by laying - before Parliament all in!orinat ion connecteJ with them, and the manner in which these Duchieshavebeen conducted. I think if we had not taken this course—if we had proposed a total sur render of the Duchies it would hardly be an aAvantage to the C ro wn, because we must take it for granted that the great ma jority of this House seeing that her Majesty on ascendiog the throne, has not derived that personal property which I be lieve nearly all her predecessors from the time of George the Second had derived—having lost the revenues of Hanover, which had been enjoyed by the Kings of England for the last 1 9 0 years. I may safely say, that seeing that reduction of the Crown revenues, it would not have been the province of this House to take them without some fair and honourable corn- peesation.—( Hear, hear.) It would not have been right tt put her Majesty in a worse condition than any of the Sove reigns that went before her, and I think it rather better that we should keep to the ancient settlement of these Duchies than to have a sum of money in lieu of them, by which the public would not have been gainers, and unnecessary innovation .would have ensued. With respect, still farther, to the Civil List, it is the intention of my I).:ght Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche quer, and of which he has already given notice, so early as Thurs day next to prol.o e ell the papers to a Select Committee. Before that Committee, the whole question of the Civil List will come, and they will be in possession of all the information that can be given. I have no doubt that that Committee will meet it with perfect fairness, and with no disposition to withhold what is due to the henour and dignity of the Crown ; and I trust we shall be able to show, on our side, that we do not propose any useless expenditure, or that cannot be justified by the reasons we shall give. fhe Hon. Gentleman who spoke last referred to some undue influence said to be exercised by her Majesty during the elections without any par ticulars on that sul:ject. I can only give a general denial to his general assertion. I hope, also, he is equally prepared to deny all those rumours which we have seen in the public papers, that he was the bearer of certain letters in which the landlords desired—( Ministerial cheers)—that he would report to them the conduct of their tenants, and whether they did or did not comply with their just wishes on the subject of the election.— ( Vehement Ministerial cheering.) lam sure he is too well cognisant of the Constitution and resolutions of this House not to know that such interference is extremely unwarranta ble, and after his allusion to undue influence, I must say that I am sure he never was the bearer of such a letter.—(Much laughter.) The Honourable Gentleman made another allusion to Ministers, and said that he was not surprised that there was nothing in the Speech, because the Ministers had done nothing. lam not going to detain the House by recounting to the Hon. Gentleman all the measures for which we claim some approbation, they being acknowledged to be of • considerable use to the country. I will refer the Honourable Gentleman to a speech made at Glasgow, by the Lord Rector of the University there. That Right Hon. Gentleman then enumerated a great many measures, which had passed through Parliament within the last few years. In future he would not ask the Hon. Gentle man to read the history of the last few years, but would refer him to the opinions of his Leader. Instead, then, of re proaching us with having done nothing, he must give us cre dit for doing a great deal, otherwise he will at the same time contradict him whom he wishes to follow in this House. I have now, Sir, gone through all the details of the Speech. Taere is ene however upon which I have not said anything— _upon the paragraph respecting Canada. With respect to that matter, I will only say that it is a subject which well de serves the gravest consideration of Parliament. I have to thank the House for its attention to me during the time I have thought it necessary to address them.—(Cheers.) I • will give my most decided opposition to the amendment of the Honourable Member for Finsbury. I trust that Hon. Gentlemen will accept of and act upon the advice which has been tendered him, and not divide the House.— ( Cheers.) 1 hope lie will not persist in dividing the House, but let them agree to send tip an unanimous address to her Majesty from the first Parliament of the reign. Sir R. PEEL then rose and said—l have frequently, Sir, on occasions like the present, taken the opportunity of ex pressing my opinion both when I was in office and when I was in opposition to the Government, that it was not convenient on the first day of the session to call upon Parliament to give direct pledges on any subject or measure.--( Hear, hear.) I ex pressed that opinion, because I thought it unfair that a Go vernment being naturally and necessarily in possession of the measures which it meant to propose, should invite Parliament who had not the same cognizance, which they had of public measures, after probably only the deliberation of two or three hours, to express an opinion upon matters of the very deepest public importance ; and the opinion which I expressed on former occasions I still retain.—(Hear, hear.) Had the Throne been now filled by his late Majesty, a Sovereign ad vanced in years, I should have maintained the same opinion. Had it been thought desirable to call upon Parliament for a pledge on any particular question, I should then have urged the absolute necessity, in point of justice, of reverting to the more ancient practice, and giving to all those, who were so called upon to express an opinion, at least the opportunity of deliberating for forty-eight hours on the measures ; but consider the multiplicity of measures which are necessa rily alluded to in the Speech from the Throne. I think it infinitely better for the Crown to content itself with indicating generally the measures which it means to propose, and so to word the Address in such a manner that we may be enabled, on the first day of the Session, to concur in the Address with out any compromise of our opinions. And if I should havo felt the force of those opinions under ordinary circum stances, I do feel, considering the circumstances under which we are called together, considering this is the first occasion on which a Queen, at an early age, has addressed her Parliament, it does appear to me that the opinions to which I have re ferred acquire extraordinary and peculiar force.—( Hear, hear.) I cannot refer to the concluding paragraph of that Speech, in which her Majesty states that the early age at which her Ma jesty is called to the Sovereignty of the kingdom, ren ders it a more imperative duty, that, under Divine Providence, her Majesty should place her reliance upon the cordial co-operation of a Parliament. I cannot hear those expressions fall from the lips of the Queen of this great empire, addressing her Parliament for the first time, without anxiously seeking the means of concurring in the Ad dress which is presented in return to that Speech, and render to her Majesty nothing else but the assurance of my loyalty and desire to afford that co-operation.--( Cheers.) I give to that address, therefore, my acquiescence—my entire and us quali fied acquiescence—( Loud cheers)—because I must say, that independently cf my desire on this occasion to avoid the opportunity of contentious debate, still less the ne cessity of an amendment, the Address is so worded that he must be very critical and fastidious indeed who could find fault with it.—( Hear, hear.)* At the same time, it is right I should say, 1 reserve my opinion upon every measure alluded to in that Address.—(Hear.) I cautiously abstain from giving any pledge to any of the measures addressed to Parliament from the Throne, or to say to which any reference is made in the Address. I disclaim any acquiesence is the facts. I cannot take them for granted, and I necessarily, therefore, abstain from either giving any opinion upon them or pledge on the subject.—(Cheers.) 1 shall, therefore, acting on the principles 1 have avowed, and looking at the terms in which the Address is proposed, have the greatest sa tisfaction in eying it that acquiescence which I thought, till I had heard the speech from the lion. Gentleman opposite, would probably have been unanimous. —( Hear, hear.) It would be apart from the consideration of the circumstances to which I have referred—it would be apart from any beneficial effect, now to enter upon the points contained in the Speech. The affairs of Canada—the question of the Civil List—the state of Ireland and the questions connected with it—how de sultory and how ieeffectual must be that debate, which attempt ed in one discussion those various important considerations.— ( Much cheering.) So far as the Civil List is con cerned I refer to no other matter than that which the Noble Lord has referred to in his speech. We are called upon to express no opinion upon that, but I don't hesitate to say, it is gratifying to me to find it is not meant to abandon the revenues that are derived from the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord classed those two Duchies together, but yet I apprehend that there is a difference between the two in point of law. The revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall are held by the Crown as a trust, whereas in reference to the re venues of the Duchy of Lancaster there is a more direct and immediate control over them. I don't notice that distinction just now for the purpose of establishing any inference that they ought to he practically treated as separated, but I rejoice that those ancient revenues are to be maintained. Upon the particular measures to which the Noble Lord has adverted, I beg to reserve my opinion till they have been mere fully explained.—( Cheers.) I am called upon to decide whether I shall vote for an amendment which has been pro posed by the Honourable Gentleman. That ameadment appears to have been proposed under the impression that her Majesty's Government were composed of what the Honourable Member called squeezable materials.—(Laughter.) I have not the slightest doubt that the main object of the amendment was not any hope that the House would acquiesce in it, but in the hope that by a conjoint squeeze of those squeezable ma terials, he should get some satisfactory statement from his Ma jesty's Government upon the points on which he was anxious to obtain information.—(Laughter.) I rejoice that the Noble Lord has defeated the expectations of his Honourable sup porter.—( Cheers. ) For, with respect to the Reform Bill, and the other measures alluded to by his Honourable supporter— (Laughter)—the Noble Lord has not shown himself of such squeezable materiels as the Hon. Gentleman supposes. -(Laughter. ) he has declined taking any one of the powders of the Honourable Gentleman—(h creased laughter)—notwithstanding the gra cious manner in which he offered them.—(Continued laughter.) And the Hon. Gentleman must, he thought, see that so far as the Noble Lord is concerned, he has entirely failed in praueing what he naturally thought would be the result.--( Great laughte r. ) The Hon. Gentleman, I apprehend, will persistin his amend ment, and take the sense of the House upon it. I know per fectly well that the Hon. Gentleman considers that the coun try ought to be aware of the opinion of its representatives upon the questions he has enumerated, and will compel them to record them. I must say, however, that the Hon. Gentle man's amendment falls very far short of his intentions, for it embaces neither the law of primogeniture or the Corn-1aw......„ ( Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for Kilkenny, ten, has no right to quarrel with the Address, for he himself says that since 1822 he has never known any good measure to be introduced in an Address. The Hon. Gentleman turns round and asks how can you account for the majority baying dwindled from 120 to 30? Don't let them make you believe that it is attributable to intimidation or corruption—(Oh, oh, from the Ministerial Benches.) Can you believe it possible that intimidation and corruption have produced this? Is that the opinion you entertain of the Reform Bill?—.(Cheers from the Opposition.) Do I hear in 1837, after the predictions that were formed of the satisfaction it would give and thee, public confidence it would receive, do I hear it now declared teat of all grievances the Representative system is the worst?—{Cheers from the Opposition.) Do I hear it now aeserteelt that the country is groaning, for that is the expression, ineiter the representative system. Groaning only could express the degree of disatis faction with which the people of England regarded in—(Great laughter, and Hear hear.) This ;,'t is that has changed the Pub lic mind : this it is that alreris the public with fears of new revolutions—( Loud cheoss)--I take the expressiitn of the Noble Lord who told u', that the country could not afford to have a revolution ever year. —( Continued cheering.) What must the public—tiae respectable public —not those who are under the base inP : uence of 'corruption and intimidation—what insist the people The argu tili:ll:, as to the House of Commons ? They had reasoa to b e lieve, from th e declarations of all parties, that the Rcfc,eni Bill was to be a final meas ure. accomplished, was—" We vsen t a tivo system wa s a relent addressed to our anxieties when this great change in the repe in not order only tot th p a r t ev th e e n y t newdemands." e e epn c es t oi tr 'p' curse—the th e evil under which they labour, ' s m A a a n ti k d s e fi n c t o s h V ,e l'e;:juetantteghleal tteitxtie: THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1837. -4