The Sun. — London, England, 1812-05-22 00:00:00

Anal tnost manly line of coudua to ptitsurae to op p ,se the formation of an Adrnnitstration of which he could not approve; rather :han to let it be form ed, and then. strike at its measures. He thought the voice of the people; expressed through that Hotee, might have the effect of inducing the Prince Regent to snake a new effort at forming a strong and efficient Administration. By the motion which he intended to inake, he did not mean to pledge himself td'support any Governmeot than might suc ceed•the present, nor did he mean to pledge him self to oppose all the acts of the present Ministers ; still . .ess did lie mean to oppose the Constitutional tight of the Crown to choose its own servants ; that which he 'wished to do was to, induce the House to exercise its good old constitutional pralice of addressing the Sovereign, and praying him to adopt such measures as would enable him to form a strong Administration —implying,. by such an Ad dress, that the present Ministers had-not the con fi.lence of the House andof the country.' He would now proceed to state the grounds on which he brought forward this' motion; and he wished every man vt ho heard him to put to his conscience the questions which naturally . arose from them.—There were three CideStiQns which they ought to put to themselves--ist, If in the present situation of the country, it was not necessary that an Administra tion should manage its affairs, which possessed the confidence of Me people-2dly, If the present Ad ministration possessed the confidence of the peo ple ; and, idly, Whether all- had been done that could be done towards forming such an Admini stration as might be looked up. to by the na tion with confidence ? On these three points he asked the deliberate judgment of the' House, and to that he confidently appealed. On the first question he would not take up their time by dis cussing it at any-length. That an Administration p-ossessing the Confidence of the nation was neces sary, could not be denied. Every man must admit that at no former period were the troubles to which we ware exposed so great and so difficult to meet as those which at present'pressed on our attention; and therefore that a Government was necessary, to which we could look up with confidence and re sped, must also be admitted. On the second ques tion which he had suggested, he was also well a ware that it was not necessary for 'him to take up much of their time. That it did not possess the . confiderce of the people, was not less clear, than it was certain, that the Government ought to possess that confidence. He must believe that the present Adminietration did not possess the confidence of the people . . How could it, under existing circum stances r That it should do so 'Am almost impossi ble'. Standing as - he did, closely uni ed .in friend ship with some members of that Administration, it wauld ill become him to use language that might cause personal irritation, but it became him 16 say '(standing there in his Place) that though he had been one of the warmest supporters of Mr. Perce val's Administration, be 'had never thought it a strong Administration. He had not thought it so strong nor so efficient as an Administtation.at a crisis like the present ought to be; but when, above all, that charader was taken away from it, who, of all he had seen in that House, was most fitted to take the lead,when so eminently possessed the talent of winning those who heard him, and of confirming tho-e he won in his political views, when such a Charatier was taken from the Administration, be could not but think it far from • being efficitait, far from being such as_ the country ceuld cotifj,dein. The present Administration had already. been tried, with another person at s c ti•ete ad, and found not to• possess the con fidecce of tl,e nation ; he referred to the year law, when 'they were in office under Mr. Addington. It might be said, when he thus expressed hiinself of that Administratiec that the Administration of Mr. Perceaal was composed of the same materials, and lightly as he spoke of them under Mr. Addington, be had voted with therm when they formed the Ad mieiatration of Mr. Perceval. It was true he did s' but Mr. Perceval was there himsdf. If Mr. l'ereeval were still with them, he would still give them his warmest support ; hut when he (Mr. Per cesal) was taken away, their great, if not their whole.sUppost was gone. On the' third question a iii. b he wished them to consider, namely, had every thing been done that could be done to form a strong Adminiviation ? He had to say, that, in liis opinion,' all bad not been done that might have been done. It was true that an unsuccessful attempt ,d been Made to induce a Noble Marquis, and a Right Hon. Gentled an of great and acknowledged tatents, to give their abilities to the present Go arrnment ; but that they could do so, from the terms of the communication made to them, he con fessed appeared to him to be quite impossible. He ()ever scrupled to arraign parts of that Right Hon. Gentleman's charater to his friends, where he could not approve of his conduct ; • but; in the present instance, he thought his conductprecisely what it' ought io be—and considered his letter to Lord Liverpool as equally honourable to his head 'ant heart. He thought it was in vain to hope to forth a strong Administration,,unless Government resuived to try to do sotr.ething to conciliate the Catholics. He bad voted against their cleirns, but if might be well to consider it a something to con ciliate them could not be effeded. He looked with weal' anxiety to-the result of this motion. If" suc cessful, it. would afford him the highest satistaation; but he would tell Gentlemen opposite, that - in or der to make it so, it would be better to refrain from that language which on former occasions bad been used, as it u ould only tend to excite irritation in a ceraip quarter, to provoke personalities, and to call forth the abuse of the low and vulgar. For himself he would say, that in, the line of condudt which he had felt it his duty to take that night, he sae d alone., He had taken care not to employ any body, or any party, to suppott him. 4 ,He had con sulted nobody, and even then, while speaking, tie Was ignorant whether or'not any one would second _els (potion. Having been one of thelate Minis ter's warmest friends, he had thought it right to shale' ti e, present G'overnment thus eat ly that they could not expect' the support of all Mr. Perceval's friends. Bound to the NuY'le Lord, now ai r the head of Govertitoent by the ties of relationship, and still snore by those of attachment and respect, he re gretted the nee ,- Ssity of the step be Was about to take; but it . was a tr.eeint with him, that private feelings ought not to i —acre with political consi derations, or bate any tele on political' differences. He was unwilling to intuLt a pang any where, but suing gs lie did, he Went on the broad ground of duty. He concluded, moving an hurnble Andress to the Prince Regent, praying that he would be graciously, pleased io take such measures- as would enable him, under the present circumstances of the country, to form a strong and efficient Adminis- trat ion. .Mr. EYRE thought it unconstitutional for that HoUse to interfere with the nomination o' Ministers by the Sovereign. The Honourable Gentlemati had grounded his motion on the inefficiency of the present Ministry. It was to be remembered that they had invited persotis of acknowledged talents to unite with them in forming an Administras ion, and though the reasons which induced those persons to decline, the offer might be very good, - and justi?y their . re tusal, yet it . by no means authorised the passing of a censure on Government, .seeing they had made such application. The persons applied to would got come forward unless certain questions were con ceded to them which were sanctioned by the House, and 'he believed by the country. He did riot place much faith in the prophecies made with respect to, whcit new administrations would prove to be. He had heard Ministers spoken of as weak and unfit for their placeti, who had afterwards filled illem with great ability and vigour ; and he had heard clarets extolled as the poss6ssors of all the talent in the country, whose measures caused general disap pointment. He was anxious to meet the motion with a most decided negative; but in point of form it might be better that he should move, " that, the other Orders of the. Day be now read." Loid .Mturosr supported the motion at some length. The applications made by the present Go vernment to others to join them, led to - the con clusion that they felt themselves incompetent to manage the affairs of the nation. It was impossi ble at present to foretell- the event of the present motion, even if it were carried; but he hoped, whoev.er might be called upon to form an A.dmitais tratiOn, that a government would , belormed, who, in all great political considerations, would be able to agree among them Selves. He had certainly opposed the last. Administration, or the present, it it might be so called ; but it . was his opinion, that a mere change of persons would. not benefit the country without a change of measures also. Sir F. BURDETT at least agreed with the Noble Lord, that'a change of men could not benefit the country without a , change of measures altogether. When he said a change of measures altogether was necessary, he had up-hesitation in saying, that nati onal power should be applied to national objets alone, that all those who lived under the same Go vernment should be allowed to participate in the blessings of the Constitution; whatever their religi s ous denomination might be. But still more, it was his opinion, and he was bound to, state it,. though perhaps he might not find many to concur with him, that these changes should be followed up by a reform of the representation of the people in Parli ament. On taking a short retrospea of the attairs of the country, it would be seen that in the variety of Administrations formed withiu the last fourteen or fifteen years, they had had Administrations said to possess all the talent of the countrys and Admi tristratiOns said to exclude all the talent of the coun try. They had seen one person of unrivalled abili ties and great virtues, at the head pf the Govern ment, who, with all his great qualities; had,but in creased our evils,- and placed us in a situation front, which, while the present system continued, it was difficult, if not impossible, for any talents to evri ote us. They had, within the period he had men tioned, seen . all parties in, and all parties excluded 3 they had seen Administrations of every description, of every mixture, and of every sort that could be imagined ; yet the country, far from being relieved. by them, had only, seen their dangers increase with their burthens. He could not think with thelion. Mover, that the great specific (or all evils was a strong Administration : .but, at the s,que time, lie thouglitibere was nothing at all unconstitutional in the proposed ad ale's, as it was the great business of that House to council thetCrOwn. He thought that more was necessary, and' that witkout reform in Parliament, no Minister would be able to carry those plans into effect for the good of the country he might entertain. It the question before the House had been brought forward free from every thing else, merely tot.the purpose of making an at tack upon IVlinisters, he should not feel disposed to give it his support on that ground alone. It might be urged, and fairly urged, on the other side,, that at present it was not ascertained whether or not Allot sters were incompetent 'to fill their situations in a proper manner. They might say, " give us time, and when .you see our actions, you may-possibly find that he, of whom we have been deprived, was not, as you think, the source of all our strength : at all events, do rot prematUrely condetnn us, without first taking "the benefit of a little experience." This, under the circumstances whiCh he had described, might be fairly enough urged, by them ; but feeling as he did in the present case, that it was necessary than, the Sovereign shOuld be apprised of the. situa tion of the country, and of the necessity of doing something to conciliate the people, be should beg leave to move an Amendment to the origine4 Ads dress. He thought the Address should not be merely for a change of Ministers—as he did not know but the Gentlemen now in office Tided their situations as well as they could 'be filled by any, other persons e if the same system were to be persevered in. He would therefore move as an amendment — The SPEAKER observed, that .the Honourable Baronet might-spare himself the trouble of reading his Amendment, •as the original niotion was :al ready covered by an Amendment, which must be disposed of before a new Amendment could be pros posed. Sir F. BURDETT wished merely to read his Amendment, to .put the House in possession of its substance. It was"his intention to move, that the early part of the motion should 'he omitted, to admit words expressing a hope that an Administiation would be formed, whose chief , ohjed it . w ould be to redress grievances, to apply national power to national objects alone, to conciliate the-Catholics, by admitting them to a participation in the - blessings of the Constitution, and to effect a reform in the representation of the people in Parliament. Mr. Wteaaaaoace obje&cd to the motion be-. fore the House as being unconstitutional. When he considered the present state of things, when he considered the infinite number of bearings of every political question, and when he considered hoisr-sel dom the prophecies of the greatest men respeaing Meastlres had barn justifitsd hy - the re el, he \ could not in the tirvser. t instance consort to, a de viation from what hail been tie practice of the Con stitution. The Hoe, Gentleman nano broeglit ward the motion had said, that he thougni it the best and most manly way of proctesling. He (Mr. W.) would reply in the-words Of a celebrated enooy rinius writer, when called upon by a•soldier, who signed what he published with -his name; and called upon hisantagonist (the anonymous writer-) to do the saine—"That his doing so might be a, proof of spirit, and if it we - re a proof of any thing apiiit he should 'be inclined to follow 'his example." lie re membered the same question being distussed nearly thirty years ago, when the right of the Crown was contended for on the one hen& and denied on the other, it was finally decided -that the House hid not that "right. It appeared to him by no means proper that they 'should throw any thing like labiate on the appointments of the Prince heforte the Administra tion was formed,' and before they werelacqusioted with its corfOituent parts. The Hon. Baronet seemed to think, that before an Administration were twined, the persons who were to compose it shotild be called upon to declare w hat were their senti ments wit h rasped to the questiors . of C Emancipation aed Parliamentary Reform. To this he objeeled... He thought it was not for them to put the persons who were to-be chosen members of the Administration at the bard that HouSe, and in quire of them • what they meant to do. He thought it would become them better to let ,the Crown first do its part, and then it would be for the House to suppoit or oppose the Ministers as they should see fit. It' was in these principles he (Mr. W.) had been educated. Astiug upon, these, he bad hereto tbre seen the country great and glorious ; ono from these, while he teirsamed a Member of that House, lie svoula never depart. He thought the Honour able Baronet had unfairly charged, the evils, whiCh had been experienced by the country, on Mr,, Pitt, when he could not deny that that Right Hon. Gen tleman had possessed the confidence of Parliament anal of the country. If he were to see a noble three masted vessel come into port severely fettered and , disabled ; would he, from this view, prefer a charge • against her commander, who might have- been bravely fighting the battles of his country, Without first taking into consideration the force to which it had - beep opposed ? Such a tbarge would not be more unjust to the Commander than it was to his . late Right Hon. Friend e Mr. Pitt to censure him for the evils which had been felt by the • circumstances of the times in which he lived. He wondered the Honourable Baronet could think a reform in Parliaa went would lighten the burdens of the petiole in any• material degree. tie (Mr. Wilberforce) had voted for a reform, not with any such idea, but with a wish to do . away what many considered 'a blot in the Constitution. He did not know that the,- had ariy Pat liatnerntary, grounds for voting the Address which was proposed. Of the three grounds stated by the Hon. Mover, he wished to hear how be made out his thitd: How did he know that enough had"not - been done' to endeavonr th form a strong Administration He supposed he only 'went on what was known from the Newspapers. He did not deubt the authenticity of what had there been published, but to adopt 'a measure on docu ments so Hid before them, was' inconsistent with the usages of Parliament. Rr his part, he (Mr. W.) was ready to-support any Admiiihrtration which rea gulatedits conduct with a view to the public good, and he. only lamented, that at a crisis like the, pre sent, they. did not sufficiently castotf. their personal prepossessions and predilections. At stich a petiod, to recur again to the figure he had made use ofs he thought, like the crew of a vessel in extreme danger, they ought to uni.e heart and hand th fight the ship .to the last. On every side he saw many Men who dearly loved their country, but it was no exaggera tion to -say, that when they descended to personali ties, there was great danger of their being thiaunder's stood by . many well disposed persons, who were thus led to form very erroneous opinions of those who sat in that 'EL use. Sir F. ButeueTT explained.. Mr. WARD declared, that if the motion were hos tile to the Constitution, whatever temporary advan tage might be derived from it, he should agree with the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, that that advan tage ought to be foregone. This, however, tie de nied. It was not contrary to the Constitution, it was .not . contrary to precedent, that Parliament should advise the Sovereign on every subject ; 'and partictilarly on the formation of a new Administra tion. He allowed that. this . was a praCtice which ought not to be resorted to too frequently ; buflif eyelathere was a time for enforcing it, - it was the present. Unless the principle of such an inter ference were wholly abandoned, it must tieadmit ted that the - present was preciaely the period in which it Ought to , ' be acted upon. There were two conditions. necessary, in his opinion, to the justification of such an , interlerence on the part of the House of Commons 5 namely, great public diffiiulty and -danger, and acknewledged Weak ness in the 'Administration. With respea to the first, no one ceuld question the pecul4r ditlicul ties under which the country laboured, with refer ence both to it a external relations and to its Internal stare: With respect to the second, he would spare himself time disagreeable task of canvassing nhe per sonal charatters of. Gentlemen ; but he mast say, that- theweakness •of the existing Administratien was a metier of -general and public feeling. Perhaps this could not be bettele,ascertained thio by asking IA hat' was the universal language in speaking of the Government, before the death of Mr. Percevar?- When it was then objected that the Administration 'required strength,,the answer uniformly - was, that such were the charaCter, the talents, and the po pularity or Mr. Perceval, that alone he was able to supply the deficiencies whin were acknowledged to exist. The House would pay but an ill.compli went to Mr. Perceval,' if now that he, was 'with drawn from them by the late lamentable occur rence, they should still give their confidence•to per sons comparatively -so inadequate to the task of carrying his system and principles into etfeet. But an attempt, it would be said, had been made to. add to the strength of AdminiStration ? What `WM the nature of that attempt ? It very mach resem bled the offer that was made to two Noble, Lerdt. in February last, except indeed; that it was still More absurd, more inadmissible, more, insincere, and would have-been disgraceful to the persons to whom it was'addressed, had they accepted ' For what were those persons asked-to dd . ? To surroder fot the gaite of plate . their_chargter, and the plett;es which they had givett to the country engap in an_ on principles directly the reve,se of those which . but a short time . before, they had declared their determination to support. Ha would not praise that Noble Lord _and, that Rio,ht Hooourabie Gentlemen (or their' refusal. It wottlii be to pay . them but a very ill compliment to be: s, for no reasonable and lumen man could . have -hes-i.; tared a single instant op_ that subject. G;eat' a were the talents of that Noble Lord, and great ai were tte talents and elogne'nce of his Right Hod. F's lend, he was persuaded, that be , did not go too tar in saying,-that had they abandoned theit-princiL pies on this occasion, the utmost emersion of theif abilities for the rest of heir lives, would never tiav4 , 'put - thein on 'a level again with men. of moderatd. powers and acquisitions, who had preserved theii tailless and consistency, He presumed - this was td. .be'treated as a bona • firle attempt. The courktry; hOwever, would h,..-- blind if it did not see that :ilia. original design of those by whom it had been madek• was to leave things as they were, to afford pe6onkia, office a convenient pretext .for remaining so, and: to shift from them the odium of remaining in the Ad— ministration without having made some efibrt to ins vigorate it. The House had been told. that 1114. ought to wait uutit they ,saw the nature of tbo tneasures.that would be adopted. This-was an old and a specious argument. Bpt at all times, and par-. ticolarly at the present period, it was most incxpe diem that men should be in powerw hoin Parhamsot found it necessary cautiously to watch at every step. , For such - an imbecile Government, an Administration pos,essing auiltority and influence,of establ is': ed nan and charatter, ought_ to be substituted. If the pre' ,. sent Ait'uinistration possessed any charaaer, it - watu anti-catholic. It was the anti-catholic Administra - • lion of the 14!„getit, led in that House by his .Noble Friend, He. would ask the House if they could rea sonably feel any reliance on the continuance of Ow present system ? or if they thought that the cham pions of it were so firm and dauntless, that they . were not to be diverted . from the pntla they had. chosen ? Was it likely, with the limited means of resistance which they possessed, that they would be able to resist lite consideratior of the Catholic c,aimit . If this were at least doubtful, would it no: be. arab better to see - the Administration in the hands of per' sons who would be Able to talk to the Catholics in 3 firmer tone, and who, while they granted fair con cessions on the principle of toleration, would be at) l =' to resist any unreasonable demand Or expectation. it appeared to him that they were now called upon 10 decide whether at any time.they ,would interfere - * he would not say with the choice of the, Sovereign'' but on an occasion-line the present,—whether the/ would establish the principles of theirright the moat important instance in which it could be tablished, or whether they would surrender. one their most important privileges for the sake of givi'lg sanction to an Administration founded on mere favouritism ? Lord WaLroiE , contended that the proncsitiO? was unconstitutional, and referred to precedents its Support of his opinion. .Mr. HERBERT (of Kerry), although he differe i from the late Right Hon. Gentietnan's Administr: lion in.many important points, yet could not oyl.A. to the present motion, because he thought it trenc .. i s 7 i on the prerogative of the Crown. .He prit," ba t ready to support any .Administratinn t would originate.anygood measures. Mr. Secretary RYDER gave full credit to his Friend, the MOM of the proposition beforetaf; House., for his motives ; but maintained'. that if were .agreed to, it would violate one of the first most randoubi.e,d prerogatives of the Crown. Ti o t ; was not a single instance of the interference Of f !lament during the ai'Aual formation of an Ad rnil" c i stration. He wished that when his Hon. ktlet, thought proper to make a proposition of 4 nOvo - nature, be had adduced one precedent from I tio°1 ! in justification of it. There was no such preeedewf except indeed that to which be hel'eVed an 1 Gentleman opposite had made some, allusion. 1 13 the corn mencernene Of t bat Administration of wi lic , c Mr.' Pitt ,vas at the head, Mr. Pitt vaca ted his s e l : e by . the acceptance of the office of First Lord o f T-easury. Mr.. Fox, on that occasion, in rfu)vt an ,address to the King not to dissolve Parliatne',ll,- apologied lc; cluing so in the absence of and acknowledged that it would be.unconsti futl° ' for the House. to interfere with the CroWit Ifl. notnination of its Ministers. That was a per''; e j, great heat and irrital ion ; public men were d i9 ° 3 l;e . o at that time, to go greate ,- lengths than had eve r di e fore been gone, iti.opp v esing the Ministers oyi Crown ; yet neither Mr. Fox, any 'nor O ther ( 3 ' hzt great men Who constituted the Clepositoti of 1 1 . 0 „ day, veneered upOu salt. an unconstitutien alr J position as-that made by. his Hon. Friend. , ' ht , there, were circumstances at that time whi ch to'g. 4 if any thing could, have in spire measure Je." i t r the preceeding,. The Crown, in the exer.is e : 9 } ;,.. a n prereptive,.had dismissed Ministers who h oc ' supported iii many imp°, taer questions, by m.ai t nities that House ; and it had to laced sus ,,et Ministers•by men who had ken most aCtive iti opposition to them. It v,-as in fire; at , ' t he time, that the new Government e_ame in throtigi l or exeic.se of tincon n.l s'itutiol influence, and tha t -were men who opposed measures• which had ed the cOncorrence of Nrliament.' Now be 1 13 u ice ' heard it surmised that any uticOnstitutional had bee 6 exeried !tithe present insr.ince. the Administratori tnight . yet be said to be 101 ": 0 - it was.known who they were. There w ere net sons who had oepoied measures which had.re ct ' v t v• the'apolobation. or Parliament, brit.men, cularly his -Nob!e Friend at the head of his Counei! - 4 who 1.1 7 3 . 4 Afere;ore been successfu4 dueling t hat.systiln'w I och for tour.) ears had r ct '',, , l .' er e ' the sanetion• of Parliament. Th ou ., t h ere fore, oit ,. in power ho had . been ,the tnost se tae , in . suPl l- 0 1. of those. measures, .res . pertting .:which the seng'.o7o.., ' P,irtiament had been so repeatedly and so tineq% edify expressed. Yet it was , with the nom inatV' i these person; that,against all precedent and printPr4e his Hon. Friend wished the House to interfer e ' 1 4 spoke the more freely on this subje&, because---cir.. lie took !het present opportu.tity of statieg i l oo la cumstances, which it was not necessary fo r og er to detail, rendered . ianyi impossible for him any c fill a place in the Adinihistia;ion of the Cotit % ;,An Hon. Gentleman opposite, had thooglil I ot t e r press some deub.s as to - the sincerity of o ,' e lips w had been niade . to a Noble Lord all b ielr Right lion. rendE on the floor. HG. ell PO'