The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

i f to admit with my Noble Friend, that the existence of the Anti-Corn-law League is a great evil. Do not let it be sup posed I mean to pass any blame on those Gentlemen ta ho are at the head of that association—far from it, I have no hesita tion in saving that this country, and that even those in that House, owe a debt of gratitude to the leaders of that party, and more especially to Mr. Cobden.—( Hear, hcar, and a laugh. ) Yes, to Mr. Cobden. It is to his genius—to his indefatigable energy and perseverance, and not to Sir Robert Peel that we owe the present position of this measure. But to my llon. Friend, Mr. Cobden, we are all indebted for the achievement of this measure, which I believe to be one of the most import ant which has ever come under the consideration of a legislative body. I say we are indebted to him for the method in which he has conducted his triumph by means legitimate, nay, unexceptionable—no attempt to overawe the deliberations of Parliament by the assemblage of vast multitudes. The Marquis of SALISBURY—Because he couldn't. Earl GREY—I say that we are indebted to him for this course of proceeding on this occasion—a course which has been dictated to him by high constitutional feeling. He has been able to convert the opinion of the nation—to show what the real interest of the community is opon.this subject ; and considering the time in which this great change of opinion has been greeted, his success and triumph have been most miraculous. But, nevertheless, I still admit that the existence of the Anti -Corn-law League is an evil-it is an evil, because such a holy never can exist, except it has been first created by a sense of wrong and injury existed. And, my Lords, it is only a grievance which could have created so for midable an organisation—but when once created, the removal of the grievance will not remove the desire to remove the organisation.—( Hear, hear.) And I fully agree with the sen timents so eloquently expressed by my Noble Friend in his able speech, that the crop of political power is too sweet, when once tasted, to be readily relinquished. Such a sentiment is perfectly true, and I have no doubt that there will be a great auxi.ty, even after the removal of the evil, to keep up this formidable organisation. I have no doubt that such will be the fact. It is consistent with past experience. But what is the inference you ought to draw? Is it that you ought to keep up the grievance which first created this Franken stein? Do you not consider that the sense of the injustice which they have suffered, aggravated as it will be by its continuance, by the feelings that their hopes in re moving it have been disappointed, will greatly increase the power of such a body ? I say, on the contrary, that we ought, without the least possible delay, to repeal the law which has given rise to their complaints ; and that, my Lords, is my great objection to one portion of the Bill, by which we are going to enact its continuance, though even for a modified time—it gave an excuse for the keeping alive of agitation. I should like to do away with all that part of the measure which will give an excuse or a ground to those parties who may be desirous to .keep up the organisation; and, therefore, 1 look forward to the power which is vested in this House to amend the decrees pi the House of Commons, and I hope that we will amend it in this particular. But my Noble Friend, almost in the same beenth, went on to describe, in language most refined, the power of this House. He said that we were constituted for the purpose of placing a salutary obstacle to rash and inconsiderate legislation, and that it was not the practice of your Lordships to liberate public opinion.— ( Hear, hear.) That was the language his Noble Friend had expressed in his usual felicity of language—that we are placed as a restriction upon hasty legislation. but that we are not to oppose ourselves to a continuous and deliberately formed stream of public opinion. It is, therefore, of the deepest con sequence to us that we should distinguish the difference of a hasty and inconsiderate expression of opinion, and of a calm and deliberate conviction on the part of the public, before we set ourselves against it. It is perfectly clear in the one case that we must give way, and by so giving way we must sorely lWpair our proper authority. My Lords, in this case, there ore, it is our duty to endeavcur to determine whether the de sire of the people—of the House of Commons—as ex- Pressed by their votes, is a deliberately formed Public opinion, or whether the voice of the court -117 has been expressed in favour of hasty legislation, awl what are the symptoms which lead to the inference that Übe desire of the nation rests upon hastily formed opinion. 'Mae principles on which this Bill is founded were brought be fore` the public 80 years ago, when the petition was signed in fay / we of a free trade in corn. Adam Smith, in his work, has laid divan , with a force of reason which cannot be contested, the great principle of free trade. That principle had found its Way amo t ,:qat the philosophers of every civilised country in the world l and it had found its way to the closet, but it was long before statesmen and merchants would consent to its validity. By degrees they began to do so. At first the authority of the principle which had been received as infallible by the philosophers, began also to he received and admitted in a hesitating and doubtful manner; but as dis cussion went on—as the good effects of it were experienced day by day, new con verts came over to the justice, and to the a eknowledgment of the justice, of the principle. My Lords, in my own memory how great has been the change on this subject. Nineteen years ago, when I first voted upon this question in the other House of Parliament in favour of the principle on which this Bill is based, I voted in minorities, sometimes as small as 15, and never exceet,ing 50. My Lords, VI flow see year by year how great has been the progress of th e peineiple of free trade ; within the last few years we have eeet a o evidence how deeply the sympathies of the people are wound t;tt in its ultimate triumph, and we see that the prin ciple of restriction cannot be much longer maintained, for we stow see her tlajesty's Ministers at last coming forward and Manfully avo wing a complete change in their opinions. 1, for one, my Lords, give them credit for the manner in Which they have avowed their opinions upon this question ; and I regard it t.'s an earnest, and sincere, and a candid avowal. And when t find that that avowal has been the re sult of the inability of that party to resist any longer the ex pression of public opinion in reference to this measure, I do say, my Lords, that I cantaot but regard it as a strong proof of ,the policy and good sense of y ielding to the expression of pub lic opinion. It may be said y some Noble Lords that there were not sufficient reasons for some persons changing their opinions, and becoming advocates of this measure, or that the reasons which had been adduced afford anything like a fair justification for that change. Now, my Lords, I beg to say, that it is not my purpose, nor is it my wish, to make any in. Inquiry into the reasons by which others were led to hold the views and entertain the opinion, they now do upon this qu •s- Hon. I do not wish to know whether they have taken into consideration what may be the consequences of this change of opinion in the year 1839, as compared with the year IS4I ; but Whatever their opinions may have been upon the subject, it is quite apparent that circumstances have occurred of late years, which render it impossible for any rational man to entertain the same opinion now. I can tell this House that this sacrifice of opinion has been well considered out of doers — cost of doors men are of the same opinion, in reference to the c aenslaws, as those entertained by the majority of the other 11 0. e6e. There was a time when the manufacturers of this e ottn ,al were of the same opinion as are the protectionists at present, and, let me ask, were not those very men amongst the majority o f those who originated this very measure? I say that theglaSiat mistake of our commercial policy, as is apparent in this cort.`•4avi' ow ing to them. When I first has been entered upon Itiblic lif e,the •• in favour of so strong was fe eling . protection that wion Mr. Huskisson introduced his measure for the rep e al id. t igs duties on foreign shi pp in g , he was re garded as a traitor td' tbe interests of that branch of the corn turree of this country. tion o f Li ver h Yet, strange to say, the corpora pool , t e con, oration of that very town of Which Mr. Huskisson was the representative, are the f o rward with an almost People who now come unanimous demand for a total repeal of the corn-laws. There. fore I do say, m y Lords, thit the propoition for the inconsi repeai of those la ws h as not b een the result of any rash, or de rate, or hasty measure of legislation, but is one which has been the result of rational and well-considered public opinion. And that your Lordships will pass this Bill by an overwhelm ing raajority is no less my firm and constant expec °lion than it is my most firm, carnest and anxious hope. Lord ASHBURTON said he could assure their Lordships that he bad not risen for the purpose of making anything like a long speech upon this most important subject, for the best Pofsibise reason, that though he considered it importan t b e y ond any other measure he had yet seen introduced into this House, yet he did not feel that he possessed the power of addressing their Lordships at any length upon it ; he would, therefore, endeavour to be as brief as possible in the few remarks he had to Make, and he begged to assure their Lordships that he would cautiously endeavour to avoid bing betrayed into any observation which should in the slightest degree partake of a personal character. He would endeavour to confine him self, in the few o bservations with which he would trouble their Lordship!, to what he conceived would be the general political position of this country as the results of the passing of this measure. The Noble Lord who had just sat down, asked what would become of this country or of the present Government if this measure should be rejected, but he (Lord Ashburton) legged to remind their Lordships, .that_it was not upon Ilse result to any Gover nment that this House was to deal It was not the busines s of Itich this measure .—( Hear, hear. ) this House to consider whether any change, _or wh . .it change party, a s the result ge, of the pass ing or the was .na sake place in any .ther.efore he t. would say that their rejecti.'sn of this measure , and Lordship; would disposed of iT t, hi l a rr n e i s i p l ec ha tv d e coomaenyhesfuocrhe theircon- siderations.--( B ear ' Loriships in what hear.) he should call a very humble shape. and had been designated as nothing more than a Bill to regulate the trade in corn ; but whets it came to teone be w w h e ie ll h co N n e s u id h e t r e e ff d e , a he v b e e ry lieved it would be found t great chaages in this . After all the attention he had 1 after the speech of his oi ar y been able to give ciorrtpryar.ti, sidering also the present night — Noble Friend on Tuesday possessed of paying position of this country, and the po c w ° elbirutitd Acuity and danger Its debts, he should say that nothing g h mistaken in the ap t neared to him as the result of tlie pashstingeof this measure to the Country .—( Hear, hear.) that he had it was, View. he had taken, but, as hetileiaradi-said before, had been able to give . the result of all th e attention he been cGsespelled to came to no o ther . this question were had ake.viy mentioned. His v iews upon . conclusion than that he the result of forty . years' experience, during which time . he unities of judging of the results of great legis had ample o,vpotat lative experireenta• In the year 1815 he was a strenuous op- Portent of any' great alteration in the corn-laws, at a time . when the pro t ectin g price of corn was at 80s. He then opposed d it was rather remark it because he c onsidered it as a wild and ill-consist:red measure ; an able that his Noble Friend, who had introduced this measure to the House, was one of the most strenuous advocates the Hear, that h hear. is Opposition then had, and the re'llit Of which house had actually beers p l un d er ed by :he tads we re upon which ) Now ju s t l e t th em examine what the groi: this measure h a d b een a d voca ted. Some Noble Lords ha d ed in stated that the passing of this measure had been render , dispensable by reason o f the great distress that' Ireland, but he should ea had I.;:en very greatly aggravated-- say that that distress prevailed in 41-lear,hear ) —and should confes s conviction that this thing like a remedy f a o s , not a measure which would afford any also say that lt was perfeCtl at "il. los . 0 " Hear, hear .) lie would o f the ports would have j o a r l t l e surd to suppose that the opening d th th e necessary relief. On the other hand it had been stated , o f t h e ports would be a very at the result of the opening alarm in the country ; that was met by the advocatelfr z h e t n e h e e e d for a very short time. Government measure declaring that the ports would be Now, let him ask what reasons h had bee The experiment of ope:i state one occa• adduced against such a proceeding? tried half-a -dozen times before, and ports had been ceHin the was Ashburton) he w oul dngte sion upon which that measure __.resorted(L to, namely, under the auspices of Mr. Huskisso p ri la . of what took was now speaking year 1825. I that year a strong appre hension was entertained that there would have been a scarcity of provisions, and corn the 725. ; and the result of this apprehension was, that. then s at Nissen brought in a Bill by which to enable the Go vernment to let snit the corn then in bond free of dut y , and he beli eved a would not be disputed that that statesman was one of the wisest, ablest, and best of those England ever possessed. i n the month of May, 1825, there were 400,010 quarters of w h eat In bead, and Mr. Huskisson proposed to let that quan tity into consumption to meet the apprehended scarcity, but in doing so he had adopted the precaution o f letting it out only in such quantities as would meet the appre hended scarcity, while no mischief would be sensibly felt as to the result. But what was the present Government going to do? They had now nearly 2,000,01.0 of quarters of corn in lli end , and the result of the passing of this measure would be to let that enormous quantity of grain in upon the count, y, at a tcsne too when there was a fair prospect of an abundant har vest.--(Hear, hear.) . The Noble Lord then proceeded to read es:tracts from the evidence of a Mr. BanfielJ, in reference to the pr,asent position of the agriculture of this country, in which ;he. Noble Lord contended that there were strong Proof s of the i ns peliey of this measure.—( flea; hear. ) But now as to ;he future. Suppose they came, in the ceorse Of three years, to a system at e ntire free trade—must, not this country then be dependent 'upon foreign countries for its supply of food ? And the prices might be wholly independent of the cost of producing the article. Corn was a perishable article.—( Hear, hear. ) It suffered very much when kept for any great length of trine ; it must, in point of fact, be dis posed of without any delay. Flit could wish to have an answer from his Noble Friend who was sitting at the table— (Lord Mouteagie, we believe, was the Noble Lord alluded to) —and who would, very probably, speak on this question before their Lordships went to a division. The question which he wished to ask his Noble Friend was this—What, in his opi nion, would be the conduct of foreign countries towards Eng land when the principles of free trade came into operation ? Belgium, Dr ince, and all the other countries of Europe, have hitherto invariably shut their ports against the admission of foreign corn when they had had an abundant harvest.--( Hear. hear.) England was now called upon, by the promoters of this question, to admit freely all foreign grain, whilst no other country in Europe would imitate our example,—( Hear. hear.) If they were living amidst independent nations, who e isegs, prepared to act upon the same principle, the plan of free Were would be intelligible.— (Hear, hear.) If the principles laid down by those Noble Lords who had spoken in favour of this measure were carried, he firmly believed that the people would be completely deceived and the country deluded. The princi ples of political economy, as laid down by those Noble Lords, were completely fallacious. They speak of people as if they were mere machines. He would n ew quote the opinions of a writer on political economy, which he was sure would be received with the greatest resp ect ; and although Noble Lords who had spoken in the course of this debate had quoted the speeches of statesmen , he wa s not about to do so—he was about to quote the calm opinion of a man penned at home. The writer to whom he had allude was Lord John Russell.— ( Hear, hear.) He knew that the o p inions of that Noble Lord would i he received with the greatest respect.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord John Russell, in his treatise on political economy, stated that "political economy" was an awful expression —( Laugh ter)—and that the Legislature was often called upon to decide questions which involved the immediate I appiness—perhaps the very exist ence—of millions of people, by the rules of a science which changed from doy to day.—(Hear, hear.) Notwith standing those awful 'differences of political economists, their Lordships were called upon to pass this measure, and to regu late the affairs of this great country in such a way as, in his humble opinion, would bring thousands of its people to irre trievable ruin.---( Hear, hear.) He would take the liberty of again quoting the printed opinions of Lord John Russell on another part of this subject. That Noble Lord said that if all nations were at peace, if they had tile same currency, the same weights and measures, it would then be easy for the Legislature of this country to act upon theoretical principles, but the frequent occurrences of war, the breaking of all national treaties which have taken place from time to time, render such a subject much more difficult than any problem in the range of mathematics. For instance, it was very easy to say that corn ought to be admitted free, or any other article of com merce. and that if our farmers could not grow corn as cheap as foreigners, they ought to let it alone.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) But the Legislature could not deal with a question of such vast importance, on those principles. But those were the principles on which the promoters of this measure hail called upon the Government to act.—( Hear, hear ) They had been told that m,ny millions of capital had been laid out by thousanes of people in the improvemert of the land of this country, and yet they were called upon to adopt this measure, which would deprive those people of the benefit of all the capital thus expended. They had been told, too, that the taxes im posed on the proprieters. of the . soil of. England were heavy, whilst on the other hand they were exceedingly light, and yet it was contended that the British farmer should be compelled to compete with the foreign farmer, under such disadvantageous circumstances as these.—( Hear, hear.) They were called upon to ciecide the fate of this country at the mere caprice of a few speculating politicians.—(Hear hear. ) As he had before said, this was not a mere question of a few shillings being paid for corn either less or snore, but in it were involved the happiness and the social relations of almost every family in the United Kingdom.—( Hear, hear.) Our colonies would feel the shock, and he thought that if their Lordships revolved these facts in their minds, they would find that the dangers with which this measure would be attended werel incalculable.—( Hear.) He ventured to predict that the consequences of entire free trade would be the ruin of this country. Their present supply of corn was quite enough, and it so happened that the very time when corn under this mea sure would be imported in abundance into this country, would be when we least of all wanted it—when, in fact, we had abundant harvests.—( Hear, hear.) The price would no doubt in some instances be as low as 255.. per querter, and such cheapness would, he felt convinced, be attended with great danger to the country. He maintained that by the sliding scal the prices of corn had been preserved in a very steady condition. During the three years that it had been in exis tence, the price of corn per quarter had been 505., 515., and 51s. 10d.—( Hear, hear.) There was, therefore, no reason to say that the sliding-scale had acted prejudicially to the interests of this country. He advocated a reasonable protection to agri culture in 1818. Since that period their Lordships might be aware that he had been no advocate of any extravagant or absurd system of protection to agricul ture ; on the contrary, his object had always been to regulate the admission of corn into this country on such principles as were reasonable, and calculated to further the interests of the people at large. He had in fact voted for a mitigation of the corn-laws many years ago. He voted for a reduction of the prohibitory duties in the year 1842. He voted for the Canadian Corn Bill, and in fact every reasonable relaxation and mitigation of the corn-laws had received his warmest support.—( Hear, hear.) But he could scarcely call the present corn-laws protection to agriculture, and he could not vote for this measure, because by it they would be over stepping the boundaries of reason and justice. The present was a case of a totally different description to those to which he had just alluded.—(Hear, hear.) The object of this measure was not to regulate the affairs of this country on reasonable, prudent, and just principles ; its object was in fact to deprive the country of that happiness which it had hitherto enjoyed under the system of protection. . The measure militated against that which had existed at all times and in allconntries.—( Hear, hear. ) Their Lordships might be aware that there was no period in the history of this country when there was not some regulation with regard to the admission of foreign corn.— ( Hear, hear.) The British Legislature had always thought—. even from the time of the conquest—proper to deal with that subject ; and they must recollect that during the last 150 years much capital had been invested in the great business of farming. and that by the aid of that capital the land of this country had been much improved. All that capital had been expended for the worthy purposes of fertilising the English soil ; bat if this measure were passed, the thousands and thou, sands of pounds that had been so expended would be rendered useless and lost. Of all authorities on political questions in this time, he had always been mere disposed to pay the greatest respect to the opinions of Mr. Huskisson, and particu larly on the subject of free trade and protection to agriculture. Mr. Huskisson said—( A Noble Lord—" What is the date?")- 1844. He stated that nothing could be more dangetous to the safeguard and tranquillity of the country than to admit foreign corn free from all regulations. Almost all had changed their opinions on this subject, and yet they were called upon to adopt such a destructive measure as this at the suggestion of men who had themselves changed their opinio is on the subject ot free trade.—( Hear, hear.) He did not know when Mr. Hus kisson died, but he thought it was in 18..:9—( A Noble Lord— " In 1830" )—Mr. Huskisson ' however, at that time advocat e d a reduction'in what was called the protective duties, and he said, " It has, I understand, been quoted against me, that I hold an opinion that England ought not to depend too largely upon other countries for its supply of corn I maintained that opinion in 1815, and 1 maintain that opinion now."--(Cheers.) He also said, " I am anxious to render this country, corn mercially as well as politically, independent of foreigners, anti 1 therefore think that it is not prudent to suffer the free ad mission of foreign corn into this country." Every wise states man, in every nation of the world, maintained the same opi nions, becaase they well knew the danger of allow ing their country ever to be dependent on foreigners for the supply of food. ( Hear, hear.) Then as respects the objection of the Noble Earl, he might ask whether the cautions were at all likely to be effectual with respect to the foreign countries to which he had alluded, and in eelling in the licensing system of Napoleon, he thought that a due regard ought to be paid to the effects of that system. And what was that system ?—(Cheers.) It should be recol lected that at the period to which allusion had been made ' this country had been labouring under a heavy debt, which debt this country had to pay. That system of licensing had in the first instance been imposed for the period of three years, but it should be recollected that Napoleon had issued a command that the restriction should hold for five years.—( Cheers ) Let there only look at the variations of prices which had oc curred during the several years in which this licensing system had prevailed. In 1809, the price of a quarter of wheat was 945. ; in 1800, it was 1003. ; in 1802, it was 925. ; in 1813, it was 106 e, per quarter. The average of those years was 3s. 10d. a bushel. What. then was the obj ec t o f this system ? Was it to put money into the pock e ts o f th e Frenchmer? No such thing, for it was evident that notwithstanding all these restrictions, corn had beencontinued to be poured into England from the French territories. What then was his object, for it was evident that on th ese terms no efficient benefit could be wrought for the Ex. the e chequer. hoyn, hereth e a w n a n s o ag unc r e e rn at en o t ut o cy of the f t a o c t, whether wha th what was e supply of cord would be equal to the n ecess iti es o f t h e time. The manufacturer; were up in arms. His Noble Friend miss , remember the diseu , sion which took place when they were both Members of the House of Commons The motion was met with a cry of universal laughter.—(Laughter.) He would merely show the state of feeling which existed at that period, and he merely adduced the instance to show what was the opinion of the country at that period, and of showing to the Noble Lord what was likely to result feem a free importation at the present . period, and what would be the effect of an allow ance of foreign countries to introduce their corn free of duty into this country. But, did they suppose that this would be a safe scheme ? In his opinion this could not be the case, and he believed that his Noble Friend would be totally wrong in the supposition that the supply of foreign countsise would at a ll satisfy the necessities of this country. They were going to diminish the rights of the population, end to reduce the returns in the production of future years. Whetirer they did this con stantly or not alt was not the consideration, Let them look to the case of Ameriza ; for in whatever way they looked upon the statesmen of the present day, they would have e speci ally to look to the (condition of the cours4Ty,—( Cheers.) Then if they were to look spec} this simply as a mattes of gpance, their Lordships would recollect I;yhat was the state of the ceentry during the war, when the country, to e great extent, was de id e o off foreignutltre de priced ,upplies. He might, indeed, adduce the in the corn trade during last eptember. this example, because it had a in stance weah rightstate to e f adaneP and because it was of material reference to the question band, showing what yes really th e c as e as an important means t respects corn , and he might adduce —but thus much tie a dduce the case 4 Sprig as a cor reteseration of hid Inews—e ay tha the cakesi sloe was perfectly 40 d rrec , t in stating that the average -as 105 shillings a Quarter ware exclusive s ) stem. .theirLords4li's question.— ..-ould excuse his being t i which he intro aged this desultory in the way i tr ,' , the would attend t.e 4.t:A l s smother • (Cheers ) The first thing al He t o V . Th e Noble Earl went on :he es theory of the Noble E . truth in the Sou that prosperity sumption that there was fii3 ii4, l stated that es of food. always attended on low Vic of food the labouring popoletion when there were high prices This reminded of prosperity . were generally in a state t h e war, when the him of the state of thin sduring sufficient reiai;:: for • want of money was alleged as a o uld be recollected th at the dearne s s o f p ro vi s ions. But it F.h the m one y b orrowe d d ur ing the war had to be paid when the p r i ces o f t h e war were no t on ly reduced in name, but ab solutely o blit erated f rom t h e commerc i a l cote. This rem inded him of th e ra il way schemes which ha d l ate ly e ngaged so much of public attention ; he meant the railways in which the least skilled labour of full benefit of the country was to enjoy the protection, and to enjoy a full share of the prosperity which had been reaped by the other what classes. But, see from this prosperity arose, and what were the symptoms of that pros perry en which the country - In his opinion it wag so earnestly congratulated? . .was like prosperity of the present day," Where ma ty of thti railway manta or 10,0001. a year—when many many men made their 8,( comforts and the luxuris de Ibeve a were now enjoying the railways, and advancing an artificial eh their direction ot soundness in it, notwithstanding the p e r t , , , o rc r p t er. o r f ty l, a which had no It appeared, then, that there were three cases t AT N, el,:ie Lord. question might be considered. There was, firstly, this the protection of native indust;y ; there was, ae'eonie,,,casethoef protection of home-grown corn against foreign countries and there was, thirdly, tho protection of the cotton manufactures. Then, again, there were three Pbarg s es on the land. There were, first, the charges on land whipis bee a particular refer enc,e to this question. Now, there were certain gesartiee which Putic,4o,4 geeted the laud, the truth of which cow Actly ascertained by experience. That experience he believed he had attained, and the truth which resulted was, that the land had I "been bought with the perfect understanding that it was bought with the incumbrances upon it. ( Hear.) But the argument was as to what was the amount of the charges upon the land, but he must at the same time state what his feeling was respecting these various declarations. For him self, he allowed that he was dazzled with the declaration of Mr. Maculloch. He would adduce the evidence of Mr. Islaculloch, than whom no higher authority could be adduced. The Noble Lord then read a statement from MacullUch, to show that the facts were as lie had stated. The Earl of CLARENDON—What is the date? Lord ASHBURTON—The date is 1814.—( Laughter.) A mistake had evidently been made, but as Lord John Russell stated, that mistake was fatal. Cheers.) Lord John Russell had proposed a fixed duty of ss. a quarter. Whether that wee right or wrong, it was perfectly evident that the agri eesiCeig Ought to be prtitected, and that the demand ought to be 'FeriFffel independent of the supply from foreign competition. But it was thought that by a little stimulation the parties would be made to provide the supply. Now the question was, whether the farmer could be stimulated to provide the supply, without foreign interference, and the rule used was, that as they knew what could be got out of a bad horse by a pair of spurs, they should use the stimulus of the spur in order to ascertain what they could obtain from that source. From what he could understand, he would venture to assert that the returns would give the valid price of the produce, but it appeared that the prise depended on the value of the produce, and that when the returns were below certain amounts the number inclined to obtain farms was such that there was no reduction of rent when the farms were let. He thought that the minister was a bold man who would venture to assert that corn could not he produced on the continent at a cheaper rate, when of equal quality, than it could be produced in this country. From a return of the several markets, it appeared that where there were equal charges en the land, there were also equal prices. And when the Noble Lord cited this principle, he nalght well adduce the supply of food from Norfolk. But there was another from Prussia. But what was the statement? Why, that Prthsia and England were on equal terms, although an attempt had been made to place England and Ireland on the same level. The Noble Lord had said that what was a pro tection to England was a protection to Ireland also. In the latter country it appeared that the charges were laid upon the land, amounting to 2d. per acre. This included the land tax, the poor-law, and every possible charge. Yet he was bound to acknowledge that there was only a problematical statement to this effect, and it should be recollected that it was a general understanding that the manure produced on a farm should be consumed upon it, and that by this means the whole of the advantages obtained from the farm would be expended on the soil of which it was composed. It should be recollected that this land could not be improved, or the land preserved, without the value of the stock it had upon it being taken into account. This was the great deficiency, and no law could possibly provide :a remedy, as be would contend. The next popular error to which he would allude was that which would make the price of labour to be apparently independent of the price of food, and that as bread was cheap the price of labour wonld be low. To this he would only adduce the information of the Parliamentary reports, and to these he might add the advantage of his own knowledge. It appeared from the reports of the Parliamentary inquiries that the Labourers in the north of Europe were in the habit of enjoying meat once a weak. He had heard that there was a report that in Ireland eggs were sold at sixpence a dozen, but the grand difficulty was to ascertain where thesixpence was to come from. The consequence was that eggs were scarce.—(Cheers.) Now, it appeared by this simple allusion th a t th e p r i ce o f food did depend upon the price of labour, and that the elements of food, population, and labour are the main elements of income, and that on in come the price of food depended. If they were to take a purely agricultural district, as for instance the east of Lin colnshire, they would have a clear reason for the grounds of their conclusion. He was aware that some objection might be effered to this, but thus much he would assert, that where the lands were cul'ivatcd by manual labour there the price of labour might be readily ascertained.—( Hear, hear.) If a gradual means were used he believed that there could be no difficulty, but where the price of labour was dependent upon the produce of the soil, the price of wheat was a main element of the consideration before their Lordships, and that the remuneration of labour would be ruled for some years to come by the reward which industry was able to &stain for its exed tions. What would he the immediate consequences of this measure? Why, that the landlords of the country would suffer, and that immediately through them the farmers, and ultimately the labourers would be injured. That was the kind of language that those who were oeposed to this measure held out ; adod supposing, as he apprehended, that would be the result, he was of opinion that the language was completely justifiable. The tenant first of all began to suffer a little, and then began to apply the screw, and the labourer, not understanding this sort of political economy, and being sanctioned by the Parliament, would naturally resist any reduction of his wages, and resist any attempts to deprive him of any portion of his necessaries. That would be the operation of this Bill, always supposing that the House sanctioned the proposed alteration of the duties upon corn. He wished to address a few observations to the Right Reverend Bench, that the clergy would be affected, and their incomes would be reduced—at least those of not a fixed tenure. What had been stated ley a Noble Lord on a former occasion was quite tree. That nothing could be more critical than the poli tical conduct of the parochial clergy of this country on the pre sent measure. If this measure was not intended to diminish the price of corn, what then was the meaning of the Bill ? (Cries of " Hear, hear.") Very little foreign corn was ad mitted except in times of scarcity. Every clergyman of the Church of England would be reduced in his income, in the porportion of two-sixths, so that the man with 300!. a-year would have his income reduced to 2001.—( Hear, hear.) And even supposing the position of those who advocated this measure to be trite, and that no diminution in tithes would ensue, why the clergymen would be no better of.—(Hear, hear.) Their Lordships must be perfectly well aware, that if they let the daff go out of their own hands, they virtually exposed them selves to the attacks of those without and left themselves com paratively defenceless. It was a mischievous thing to set up the cry of cheap bread, and that mockery of the poor man's coin fort, when it was backed and supported by the advocacy of a Ilember of the Crown.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") If the Ministry make experiments at all, let them trifle with the protection of things of comparatively inferior import ance, and if they found the removal of protec tion on minor articles were attended with advantage, then their Lordships' House would be more justified in coming to a resolution which would sanction the operation of the present measure. It was his belief that distress in the country would always be found, mainly attri butable to some difficulty in the means of circulation. When the currency got into any difficulty it would cause nine-tenths of the distress that might abound. He could show, in fact, that the distress which has existed in the manufacturing dis tricts could be distinctly traced to circumstances which had directly to do with the direction of the in - onetary system. He would call the attention of the House to the probable effects which this measure would have on the colonies. The people of the Canadas were ready at a moment's notice to throw off the English yoke. Their Lordships knew what the French feelings were, and all that feeling of nationality the people of Canada possessed. They were all ed to France by ties of blood, and by a long formed connexion, and if the measure were carried, it would, by rendering England dependent on them for a supply of corn, render them independent of us, and give them an excuse for annexing themselves and their interests to the power of France. That was the opinion of two French gentlemen, NI. le Capitaine and M. Paphen, who were high authorities. In the Lower Canadas the French influence was predominant over the inhabitants, and the British Government had no more right to that country than the French or any other continental nation possessed. It might, perhaps, be well to argue that this measure would be a benefit for all the world; but were they to become the advocates of the human race, and to be con cerned with the affairs of all mankind? He thought the more prudent course would be to be concerned with only our own affairs.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl who proposed this subject told the House that all Europe was going to fol low the example set them by the free-traders of England. The measure met with great praise and admiration, but every one said that it did not exactly suit them. It was not in the nature of things that every country was to assimi late and hold the sante opinions with regard to these points. And even let all the world be of one opinion with respect to their free trade operations, he questioned very much whether all the world would be any better for those opinions. —( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The entire if the civilised world was divided into states, provinces, and kingdoms, placed under dif frrent governments, and it was very desirable that, as far as possible, they should have mutual opinions on different points, and a general amalgamation of interests, as it were, to pre vent war, and conserve the good of mankind. What would be the result if the principles of free trade could be universally established ? This country might become a large manufac turing shop, brit its agricultural interests would be neglected, and foreign countries would laugh in their sleeves—this coun try, being dependent on them for the supply of food—at the threatened destruction of boasted British independence and the dissolution of its interests. That which was desirable for all countries was, that they should have every description of in dustry and of international commerce, so that each in its own resources would not. be left wholly dependent upon another. The aristocracy of that. House, and the great gentry in the country, would be interested in preserving the protection in which they had so long and so eminently flourished. If however their Lordships should be of opinion,notwithstanding the great prosperity which had attended the system of protec tion, that the interests of the country require the concession of their cherished opinions they would yield it, although, perhaps, with regret, yet with the hope that it would be for the benefit of the country. But do not let their Lordships think that any such anticipated benefit would be derived from this measure or that its consequence would tend in any way to the general interests. It was a great mistake to suppose that any measure which had for its object the di-truction of those prin ciples-which had raised the country to its present paramount position would result otherwise than in universal dissatisfaction and contempt for the authors of the measure. (The Noble Lord, who throughout was almost inaudible in the gallery, sat down amicht loud cheering from all pares of the House.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he rose in that stage . .. of the debate, which was now the third, and he hoped the last night of the cichate—(Cries of " No, no," and " Yes, yes")— to express his sentiments on the measure now under considera tion. He should promise them that he would not .retain them for a long time in the observations he was about to make, and he should be extremely sorry that any Noble Lord should be prevented giving bia opinion before their final decision was taken. The Noble Lord who had just sat down need not be very conch alarmed th a t h e ( t h e Marquis of Lansdowne) was going to enter into any exposition of the " awful subject" of political economy, which he asserted had been so described by Lord John Russell twenty years ago, when a young man, and before he held office under the Crown. That Noble Lord was repiesetiii - 4 Rs describing political economy as an awful subject then, and the }„roh)e Lord who just sat down represented it to be an awful' subject now. He (Lord Ashburton. ) 2ssured the Noble Lord that he need not be ala.rined now that he was aiotit to enter into any consideration of that subject, except in as few as it was connected with the present question. In rasing, however, he twonld not profess, in answering the Noble Lord (Lord Ashburton), to follqw his precept rather than his example in abstaining from entering into Ley subject that did not enter fully into the present ques tion, and eipeeally the consideration of the burdens on land. He would leave that suNeet.„-that most imprtant subject— hi ti e s ; c ou !s idrt view it in any other sense than as a ques tionthe proprietors of land. Ifis Tr;oble friend t h o u g ofil must be aware of thn opinions he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) a e cl edi n n e g v a er co m rti o e re cte s d tron w g it ly h h p a r o h c asserted than when c advising tlteii Lordships . ' House.—(Hear, t h l e li a s r.) que"l" before the subject, h • always held—opinions witih their etienticl from it now, and im plored them to draw. House, . 1 : • t-',. N . le before the w nen .1,, h But, important g,s was e ;En- I described as one of the greatest, if not Friend had sc norrect y r fed their consideration. subject tit ti, c:icr gemrria_, , the greatest ~ h-f - ro tberr 14d been the • which was nu Af ~, o , , ~ But the question ~ . n for many ycars past to t, - , - ,11 suticet of debate and discussion . . blies in every district, town out of Parliadoent, q,nd by assemblies . fix it on that question t d t^ tl , s , ir Lerd tresen , 7 I.! I,' SuMe somewhat of a new . aspect, as i . e _ oro and village in the country, ships' House. The question at the present time came be tor,; f sanction o them In the s'o;aL4 of a Bill that had receiv.td the b her Maiesty's Goverrimeiii, ,;,ntl. likewise sanctioned a y a ) !, lc itestion„, therefore, did t o asty majority of the other lisiu4e" of Parlitmeni,—,C.lfS4r , he r: li fe ' Voble Lord (Stanley), who has been . abSent front the ,kte House this eVe n i n until now, told them that that decisi On on the Corn Bill should not operate on their Lordships' mint's , and he set the decision of the same House . in 184'2 against it de , .cision now, _ .. .• The House of Commons of 1842 against the House of Commons of 1844: But unless they were to suppose that the House of Commons had become servile and infirm in four or five years, he did not know why the decision now come to, which had resulted from matere deliberation and inquiry on the subject, should be set aside. He knew , a'so, that another Noble Lo r d, w h o h a d s p o k en on the previous evening, and whose sentim en t s were en ti t l e d t o be heard with every attention and respect, had told them that, though the decision of the House of C ommons h a d b een a rrived at by a majorities elearmjo m rit o y r o e i c t .le a a v n as o i: a o n t tahisc? N leara majority.—( a,jorhie would dl ty.—( Hear, hear, from the cross henchas.) H e wou ld as k th e m, Were former there ever been a de c i s i on coma to t h at was m ore free from Al the exercise of auth or ity an d extraneous influence than the decision on the Corn Bill i n t h e ot h er House? had been in the practi ce o f l ea di ng an d gu idi n g the delibera tions of the other H ouse — an d i t was not f or th e m to ac l , had who question their motives when by a large majority they had sent up this Bill, with the object of settling a difficult and most importan question. He knew some Noble Lords on the cross besche had stated that sos.ne of the public declarations of the leading parties who supported this measure was different from that which they entertained in private; but he did not profess to drag these parties to the confessional, or to drag their sup porters there.----( Hear, hear.) It was sufficient for him that they had altered their minds, and, having so altered, sup ported the present measure.—(Hear, hear.) He took the oe cisine of the House of Commons as he found it on this mea sure, as the declaration of the representatives of the people. Before entering with his Noble Friend (Lord Ashburton) into the commercial phase of the question, he would say a few words on two points, which required to be c onsidered th as n' t- question. The first point was the politica l aspect cessary and preliminary to the considera tion of the general raques tion, e et of er th which was referred to by th e Noble Lord th ~. the Noble Lord who last addressed Secretary the Colonies, and also the House. The importance of being independent of foreign nations for the supply of food, and the political dangers of that th Lansdowne)e Noble would not ea r r n e e a d • e iit Lardto whatycho followed the Noble Lord the Se cretary for the Colonies, and which also had been refe r red to by the Noble Ear l behind him. dependence. so f forcibly b l He e He must observe, however , that that striking fact wh i c h had y stated(Lord by been so strongly put forward had not been met. The gigantic influence of Napoleon extended all over Europe. He employed every commercial means to ruin this country, and prevent a supply of food, but human interest was stronger than the power of Bonaparte, and his policy was defeated.—( Cheers.) Look at the price of corn then, and contrast it with what it might have been had that policy been successful? But corn was coming in all the time. Ile power of Napoleon, great and paramount as it then was, did not succeed ; had it done so, corn, instead of selling at 105 s. a quarter would have been 1505.--( Hear, hear.) If no corn had come iu, ruin would have overtaken, not only those engaged in Manufactures, but the farmers also. That importation of foreign corn was necessary to save the labouring classes from starvation and the farmers from ruin. But what said the Noble Lord, and the Neble Lord opposite, following him in the same line of argument, in talking of the danger of depending on foreign countries for a supply of food? They rested their case in respect of this point on the present sliding-scale. Now, in his opinion if there was one law so contrived more than another to create this dan g er it was the sliding-seals—( Hear, hear.) — because, under the operation of a fixed duty, or free trade, they could regulate the quantity of corn from foreign countries that might be required, and what corn-growers in those countries might readily expect in regard to the supply. But with a sliding-scale, they proclaimed their danger, as far as scarcity was concerned, to all foreign countries, and if those countries, as had been represented, were disposed to conspire against this country, they could easily do it, for at the very moment when the sliding-scale proclaimed the scare* , of corn in this country, they esuld easily cut off the supplies, and reduce the country to starvation.—( Cries of "Hear, hear.") He was persuaded there was infinitely more danger in the sliding scale than in any other system of law that could be adopted. Yet ;his system had been proclaimed by Noble Lords on the other side. The Noble Lord (Lord Ashburton) had in illustra tion of this subject, referred to the cotton trade as showing the danger which would arise in any rupture with America on sic count of our being dependent on that country at present for sun plies. Some Noble Lords were alarmed at the thought of giving the f *reigner a control over the supply of corn, but in his opinion quite as much mischief, misery, and starvation would follow a sudden refusal on the part of America to suply this country with cotton as with corn. ( Hear, hear.) And yet the very last act of the Government, on which the Noble Lord also had last addressed the House, was:to reduce the duty on the importa tion of cotton from America. Upon the subject, therefore, of rendering themselves dependent upon foreign - countries, they ought not to trouble themselves for a single moment.—Cf - lear. hear.) Now there was another point connected with this Bill in a preliminary point of view, to which he must direct their Lord ship's attention. A strongopinion prevailed amongst some Noble L , rds that the passing of this Bill would be attended with con sid srable alteration in the social state of the country. He kne w it had been very much the fashion, not merely amongst Noble Lords on the cross benches, but amongst eminent persons both in this and other countries, to say that this measure would pro duce a great alteration in the social condition of this country ; and he had heard very conspicuous persons in neighbouring counties pronounce a sort of panygeric upon the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government for having under taken to work out a revolution in the social system of England. Now nothing he thought was further from the Right Hon. Baronet's mind in bringing on this Bill than working out a great revolution in the social condition of England. Nor did he think there was any reason for troubling themselves with such an apprehension, for landed property would always have attached to it a large degree of importance, while the possession would always exercise some control over the decisions of the Legislature. Even in countries of a pure'y commercial character, such as Holland, which was described as a country which could extract nothing it wanted out of its own soil, the possessors of landed property exercised a certain, indeed a high degree of influence on their particular legislators. —( Hear, hear.) He did not at all apprehend, then, that this Bill would diminish the power or influence of the aristocracy, or of the country gentry, who were described by the Noble Lord, the late Secretary of State for the Colonies, as being an essential part of the aristocracy of the country.— ( Hear, hear.) Having disposed of these two preliminary points, he now came to the consideration of the commercial principle involved in this measure, but here he must stop to remark that he did approve of the Bill, because he altogether approved of its provisions.—(Protectionsst cheers.) In sup porting the B:11 they were acting as practical men, relying upon the experience they had had of protection, while those who opposed it were not supporting practical, hut purely theo retical views, for most of the restrictions which had been placed upon trade were intended to be experiments, and the corn-laws as an experiment had failed. Now, hitherto all re strictions which had failed had been abandoned, and what. strongly indicated the expediency of their abandonment was the fact that those parties who were supposed to be most interested in them had never made an attempt to induce the Legislature to restore them. It was not as if they were now called upon to resist a change in a system which had for ages proved successful, but they were asked to do away with restrictions which were passed as an experiment, and which experience and observation had fully shown had failed.—( Hear, hear.) While, on the other hand, the experience of the last thirty or forty years had sufficiently served to convince them that changing the re strictive system invariably resulted in benefiting the country and improving those trades which it was thought it protected. Look, for instance, at the experience they had derived from the change which Lad been made on silk, hops, and kelp. His Noble Friend who last addressed their Lordships bad told them that Mr. Huskisson had once given an opinion in favour of the protective system. Now, in his opinion, one of the greatest benefits Me. Huskisson conferred on this country was doing away with the duty on silk.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. Huskisson was terribly reviled for that act, but Mr. Huskisson said he would persevere, notwith standing he might be called hard-hearted, and the result proved most triumphant, for at the time the charge was made these were only 200,0001bs of silk manufactured in this country, while now there were 600,0001bs.—( Hear, hear. ) His Noble Friend the late Secretary for the Colonies hail boldly declared that the abolition of protection had proved highly injurious to the shipping trade, but they had never heard of an attempt on the part of interested parties to re store the whole system. His Noble Friend, however, must have looked at a wrong paper, or he would not have made the statement he did. His Noble Friend had stated that there had been a positive diminution of English tonnage in the year 1845, but he found from a ver y carefully prepared and tole rably accurate paper, which had been lately laid upon their Lordship , ' table, that in the year 1832 there was an increase of 2,618,000 tons, as compared with the period 1 when the duty had been reduced. But th , re was a subsequent reduction of duties, and yet with thas reduction the number stood thus—in 1832, the tonnage of Eng land was 1,936,000 tons, while in the year 1845, it was 3,660,000 tons. —( Hear, hear.) Hs could hardly believe then that the shipping trade was suffering under the relaxation of protection, and nothing, he thought, could be more conclusive in favour of this Bill than the figures he had given.—( Hear, hear.) But it was said the shipping trade of foreign countries had increased since the abolition of protection. Well, he ad mitted it, and gloried in the result, lie WPS rejoiced to hear that these measures had been conducive to advance the in terest of other countries as well as their own, and God forbid that it should ever be objected to any measure tl at it was calculated to lead to such a result.—( Cheers. ) In the year 'B5, Mr. Pitt, in his statement of Political Eco nomy, did not consider it as strange to his principle ; when he endeavoured to avail himself he did not see any great success liable to result from its application. He entertained a com mercial proposition for a free trade with Ireland ; that was founded on a principle of improvements in commerce. There were not wanting persons of high authority, like him ; and people out of doors, who then, as now, saw in the adoption of this proposition the ruin and destruction of England. A near relative of my Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies (Colonel Stanley), whom he had the honour to know, came forward on that occasion, and presented a pe tition enforcing it, in which he stated what the peti tioners stated—that they desired to be heard by counsel, for that was about to be done which would put the finishing stroke to the cotton manufacture of Etlgland. It was the ad mission of Irish fustians and sio.tons which caused this alarm, and they stated that the working people, manufacturers, and their children, would be s acrificed. The petition was not adopted, and what was the event ? These cottons were ad mitted, and he certainly regretted to say, that Ireland did s not now produce enough fo r her own consumption ~ for that time the cotton manufacture of England was greatly increased. They next came to another extension of this system ; for, anxious to get at the root of the protective system, a commercial treaty with France was proposed. It was debated in that House, and he would say with the concurrence and ap p robation of the Noble Bill. House They o n p aroe r r t of making Were unity Lord, who was sitting on the cross bench. Th e measures came before the House i n the form of resoluti ons' , instead of fboerionig n placedorde irnto the placed in th a t ' a same vie ws any alteration in that Bill. The treat y w as debated in that o House, and a person of scarce l y inferior authority to Mr. Pitt, tgivefo rm that f a though in a different walk of life — a friend of the , tate Secre tary of di,: Colonies—he meant the Bishop of Llandaff or Dr. his Noble Watts—took Friend. I n c e t t o i l o d e,: h o o f Houseprotection that the they w ere t h row i ng over all the experience of their ancestors. In that op - - n ien be f.:,llowed, or rather preceded, th e example - of l his Noble Friend, and read the preamble of an Act of Chat les 11. The preamble of this Act set forth, that as it had become universally known that •the wealth of this country was disappearing altogether in consequence of the money sent out of the country to purchase French wines---( Laughter). The experience of the ancestors to which the Noble Lord had re ferred might be very gOod, and be revered the experience of their ancestors, as they founded the great principles and con stitution of the country. He believed they had laid the go vernment on the sorest, foondation, and contributed much to the prosperity and happiness of the country. But he would say that his respect did not extend to any of those nostrums which 01.1 applied from time to time by Act of Parliament, They applied all those nostrums, and invented various schemes founded on the principle of protection, which uniformly failed in their effect. If the Noble Duke who presided at the Egard of Trade had leisure (4:4 k .e believed th a t h e h a d not ) to look ct through all the papers inmemorials which had from time to time been sent to the board, from those papers th ey wou l d f;nd th;:t fie commerce of the country had had more dangerous and hair-breadth escapes than were even encountered in the adventures or Sinbad the Sailor. The commerce of this countt) bad undergone various iniproy'ements nod alterations, v ii e ' ' it 'ere to have seriously injured it ; .., • but they h a d a se 4. al ways ended by the commerce of the country finding itself, after the lapse Of a fe w years, in a higher position than it 6 ha4 attained before. Therefore, he again said, that lie thought that experience was rather against tha n in favour of protection. He knew that it would be said by many that they were prepared to abandan every thing if the principle of it were not for the farmers of England. Nothing could be more erroneous than to suppose that the farmers, with all the advantages of the wealth and prosperity of this country—with a growing population—derived their sub sistence from the sickly atmosphere of protection instead of their oven industry and labour. His Noble Friend had voted l Ir. Huskisson as the wisest of commercial statesmen, and said that he had agreed to the maintenance of the prohibitory sys tem. He thought, when his Noble Friend told the House, when he quoted the opinions of Sir. Huskisson. as given in 1815, and also his last speech of 1828. he entirely suppressed all mention of his opinions in 1815. His Noble Friend had said that Mr- Huskisson was the wisest of our commercial statesmen, and said that he refused his au th or i ty to confirm these opinions. He woul d beg leave mr to read so me remar k a bl e passages i n t h e l ast speec h of . Huskisson. Me (Mr. Huskisson) had said that to whatever extent they attributed to other evils the present state of the country, the corn-laws were themselves burthen and a restraint upo n the manufaetures . and the commerce of the country. How was it possible for his Noble Friend, after he had read that speech in 1830, delibe i ratelLt_o k eome down to of i‘r. the House and quot e th e au th or i ty in Huskisson as enter taining views coi nc idi ng w i t h h i s own . g the corn-laws. He believed th a t there were not among the natives of the kingdom a class of per sons better inror me d an d more l ong-s i ghted in any of business whi c h re f erre d to themselves than c ecotch far mers. He had a li s t i n hi s b and of s i x or sevenlargearms in Scotland, in a n i mpor t ant part of the country, which f had been let lately, and one as lately as a fortnight since, when this Bill had passed the House of Commons, and a greatmsry 0 . 5 f these lettings had taken place at AnAdvance of from 10 to and 40 per cent. Were these unf o it una t e Scotehmen to' n 3 1e f e held up to public derision ? Were they to be handed down to posterity as Scotch dupes ?—( Laughter.) Memorials were presented by the Board of Trade—deputations of Members of Parliament attended to represent the infamy which would follow repealing the duty on flax. He would trouble their Lordships for a few moments, and these were the last figures he should trouble their Lordships with, to the effect that would follow the withdrawal of the protectMn from flax. The produce of Irifh flax in the year 1841, the year before the withdrawal of protection, was 25,001 tons. The year after protection was withdrawn, the quantity of flax produced in Ireland was 36,000 tons—so that it was clear that when protection was re moved, in spite of all the dreaded anticipation, there was a great increase in the produce of wool. Lord Devon reports in his Commission, that sat in the north of Ir land, that they had examined a Mr. Blake, who stated that the cultivation of flax had greatly increased since protection was removed. Mr. Maculloch stated, in answer to a question put to him, as to whether he thought flax was a remunerative crop, that of late years it had become very remunerative. Their Lordships had therefore the evidence of persons residing in the country, the best evidence which could he accumulated, to show that the removal of protection from flax was followed by a great increase in the cultivation of that article. But it might be said that this was owing to the in crease of the linen manufactures, that it so happened that protec tion to linen was withdrawn at the same time. He was of opinion with Mr.'Huskisson, though not his earlier opinion, but in his latter opinion, that the corn laws were an impediment to the progress of manufacture. He contended, therefore, that all restrictions when removed had been followed by an im mense increase in the production of those articles. If those persons who fancied that the removal of restrictions would have reduced this country from its proud rre-eminence to the lowest state of degradation, and if they were to rush to those scenes were desolation and ruin were expected, and thought they wonld see nothing but ruin, desolation, misery, and wretchedness, they would be surprised at seeing an im mense district in a most flourishing and happy condition. He was told that they thought too little of the home market to the agricultural interest. All fears with reference to the removal of protection in the manufacturing districts anti the county of Lancashire, have, according to accounts which he had lately received, been entirely removed. He would call their Lord ship:' attention to the immense increase which had taken phase in the value of manufactured goods as compared with agricul tural. In the former case, the increase hod been 6,300 per cent., whereas agriculture had advanced only 3,500 per cent. He therefore considered it very short-sigl ted not to consider the manufacturing interests as part of the na tional prosperity of the country. He could never bring him self to consider the prosperity of manufactures as a sort of morbid secretion which the State physician was to keep down by a restrictive regimen. Ott the contrary, he considered that the freest scope should be given to manufactures, and that the workmen should be enabled to obtain their food at the cheapest possible price. —( Hear, hear.) He thought that a fixed duty was preferable to the alterations now proposed, and he did so because of the advantage which would accrue to the revenue of the customs ; and tecause he wi.h d that in all great changes the prejudices and sentiments of all should be consulted, and not suddenly interfered with. By adopting it, the chance would be gradual and moderate, and prove satisfactory to the agricultural interest. Those were his opinions some time since ; and if he had the settlement of the question now, those would be his opinions still.—( Hear, hear.) The question which he had now to answer was, whether he would adopt that principle when the Bill went into com mittee. He had no hesitation in answering that he would not, because, though he might be nominally voting for such an amendment. if it were possible, he would be really voting against the Bill ' • and the consequence, he firmly believed, would be, that instead of a fixed duty being eventually passed, their Lordships would be called upon to pass a totally different Bill.—( Hear, hear.) His hopes, as connected with the fall or rise of provisions, in consequence of this measure, were not up to the depression which was predicted on the one side, nor to the exaggeration on the ctber. The way he thought it would operate would be by a gradual and certain increase of commerce which would be placed on a more solid foundation. —( Elea-, hear.) He was confident that the effect would not be injurious to the British farmer, and he would apply in re ference to its operation the lines of one of their most beau tiful poets. " Trade's proud empire bastes to swift decay, As ocean sweeps the laboured mole away." He was willing to adopt the two following, lines in addition— " A self-dependent power can storms abide, As rocks resist• the billows and the tide," And with that confidence he would sit down and give his vote for the second reading of the measure. Lord Beaumont, the Earl of Eglinten, and the Earl of Essex then rose together, and for several minutes the House presented a scene of the most indescribable confusion, some calling for one Noble Lord to be heard, and some for another. Amidst the uproar, _ . . . The Duke of RICHMOND rose and moved that the Earl of Eglinton he heard. Earl GREY moved as an amendment that the Earl of Essex be heard. The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question to the vote and declared that the "not contents" had it. The Duke of RICHMOND said that the " contents ' had it. Earl GREY—I say the " not contents " have it. The Earl of EGLINTON at length gave way, and The Earl of ESSEX proceeded to address the House.—He was sorry that he should have occasioned such trouble ; but he was desirous to express the opinions he entertained with regard to this great question, and as he was so little accustomed to ad dress the House, he hoped for its favourable consideration while he made a few observations on the subject. He had come to the conclusion he had entertained with anxious de liberations of great doubt, and he did not found them on the opinions of the Brights and Cobdens of Manchester, but upon thorough conviction. He had had much doubt as to the repeal of these laws, and he should still feel much doubt in his mind were it not that the opinions of her Majesty's Ministers had broeght forward such arguments as they did in support of the repeal of the restriction an the trade and commerce of the country. But whatever doubts he had on his mind as to these laws they were removed, and he now had none.—( Hear, hear.) But long before this measure was brought forward, he was of opinion that the cheapening of corn would be of great benefit to the farmers, for it would allow them the means of fattening cattle at a much more remunerative rate than at present.—( Hear, hear.) He was also of opinion that this measure would greatly improve the sale of cattle, and he was sure that they should all live to see the benefit of the repeal of the corn-laws to this country.—( Hear.) He was not one of those who impressed upon the people that this was a measure which would be of great benefit to the country. He did not seek to be popular by using such arguments, but he was not for making the people believe that high prices were for the benefit of the people. He was for making the farmers be lieve that the new system of farming was the better ; and he was for impressing on them the necessity of doing away with the old and antiquated system of farming. He would take that opportunity of doing away with an unfavourable impres sion which had been made with respect to himself at some of the farmers' meetings a short time ago, where it was stated that he ss as careless of the interest of the small farmers. He had never said anything which could lead any one to so repre sent him. What he had said was, that the repeal of these laws would do more injury to the small farmers, would injure three who farmed land in a small way, and who had not capital at all to enable them to make the nesessary improve ments in agriculture. He had so expressed himself, and he was at a loss to know how it could be expected otherwise. There was one thing to be very much regretted when consider ing this question, and that was, there was an impression amongst those who were ambitious to rise and to be of importance in their various parishes, that it was thought by them to have large farms was to be the mast respectable. This false feeling made many take more land than they had capital to work to their advantage. This taking of large farms they thought the most necessary to their prosperity. Now what said the late Lord Leicester, the great promoter of the agricultural interests, and the great authority on all that affected the farmers' interests ? He said that he would never let a farm to any one who had not at least 104 per acre capital. The consequence of this was, that he had brought round a class of farmers who were the most prosperous and happy, and who reflected credit upon the country. If farms were to be taken on a different system to the present one of letting out small portions of land, they would find men of large capital who would embark in agriculture. It was the opinion of the Noble Lords on the cross benches that it was not for the benefit of agriculture for men of capital, who were acquainted with agricultural pur suits, to bring their capital into such a speculation, but such was not his opinion. lie was not at one period in favour of free trade principles, but he was now converted to such an opinion. He could only say that his conversion was pure. He had nothing to expect from her Majesty's Ministers—he sought no reward ; on the contrary, be had made a great sacrifice ; for it was a sacrifice to lose the good opinion of the farmers of England. He had made that sacrifice, because it was for the benefit of the country 'at large. He could not sit down withdtit expressing his regret that those who had brought forward this measure had not considered more particularly the burdens upon the land with a view to their alleviation. . He believed that the Ministry did not expect that evils would result from these burdens, which would make it necessary that they phould take them into their particular consideration, He thought that now they had an admirable opportunity of con sidering this subject, and of alleviating the burdens under which the agriculturist was labouring, for he did not consider that the continuance 'of protection for three years was an equivalent for the injuries inflicted by these burdens. Believ ing as he did that a great change had taken place in reference to this question—seeing that those who had formerly advocated a 40s. duty had now reduced their claims to exactly eq-half the amount—seein g , a l so , that tie - 4e wh o bad f ormer l y advo cated a small fixed duty were now contented with no duty at all—and believing, as he did, that the period had now arrived when these laws must be rescinded, he th oug ht it better that th e y should adopt the wiser course of at once yi e ldi ng to the popular o pi n i on , i ns t ea d of endeavouri ng t o retain former opinions and former prejudices. B y t h e adoption of this peliey, they would restore harmony where bitterness at present prevailed ; they would extend commerce, and establish on a more friendly basis the relations of foreign countries. In conclusion, he would state that he had every confidencein her Majesty's Ministers, an.; in. - ire particularly in the sa gac i ty o f t h a t able and sesiomplished Minister who presided over her Majesty's councils.—( Hear, hear, cheer;, and eounter-cheering. ) He would ask their Lord ships to point out any one person who had been entirely con sistent on this subject.— ( A Noble Lord—" You were not.") He saw few or none, around him, who had been so and he believed only those could lay claim to coneistencY who had films the beginning u rge d th e propriety of a owl abolition of those laws, He dici not, therefore, see, that those who had become converts to these opinions, cold be greatly charged with inconsistency. Until they could prove that this country was not in a progressive state—until they could prove that the 7 wants of the population did not increase with their growing numbers—until they did all this, be would rather trust tQ the sagacity and foresight of her Majesty's Ministers, who had, in his opinion, only introduced this measure at a period when it was really required. For himself he would only say, that even if be had not changed his opinion upon this subject he would never have joined in the outcry which had been raised against Perhaps the most eminent statesman who had ever rul•ol the destinies of this great country. Whatever, therefore, ski: I:t he the fate of this measure, whether it were to pass into s lax, or whether it were to be rejected by their Lordships, this csto.; ry still would be deeply indebted to that Minister for the series of admirable measures he had brought forward, and for his endea vours to raise the country from the slough of despondency in which he had found it.—(lmmense cheering.) The present measure was admitted by all to he not a factious one ; :t pos sessed in itself all the elements of success ; and even if it should disappoint the expectations which had been formed of it, the country would acquit that Minister of any blame in conse• quence. It would increase the comforts of the labouring classes, it would extend the advantages of commerce, which under the protective system had been paralysed, and when time should have obliterated all party feelings, the name of this Minister would be looked up to by all posterity with Bra t itule and admiration. Ile should give his hearty support to this measure. The Earl of EGLINTON said, that since he hail the ho nour of seconding the address to her Majesty's speech from the throne, he had never obtrudetgoimself upon the notice of the House further than by addres ne very few words to their Lordships, and, therefore, he trusted they would excuse him on the present occasion. Like the Noble Etrl, who had just sat down, he ( Lord E Clinton) had no doubt of the propriety of the course he was pursuing, but, unlike him, he had not changed his opinions—( Cheers and counter-cheers) — for he had adhered to those Conservative principles which, from the very first, he had advocated. He doubted not that it would be a wise and temperate course to modify opinions in order to insure the unanimity of a party, hut there was baae point tst beyond obreedpieree he which reprehensible. e .1 they yH dictumcou le was of f o t o fa go,loepai,anbni. opinion where they had neve r reac h e d that point, and when they found the leader who ta gonetalents, t past, s, a e desertinginculcated those thus- p p r r i i n n c e i rp l e l e s s , prostituting and the party who h e ld th em, h e considered that further obedience to him would be most reprehensible. He He did not wish to b e p ersona l, though e like the present it was to o muc h t h e habit to occasions personality, and ascribe to those w h o m i g h t differ froth them, all kinds of improper and dishonourable motives. He would beg to say that he had to) much respect for those who occupied the Ministerial benches, ton much respect for their Lordships' House for one moment to indulge in any observations of the kind. How much he might lament the course which they had judged it expedient to pursue, how much he might blame their facility in yielding to a line of policy which be considered as pregnant with danger to the country, vet he believed they were as much actuated for the general good as the warmest and bitterest of their opponents. And though it might appear very strange to him that out of a Cabinet of 13 one only should have been found to have come out unscathed from the furnace, still he believed that her Ma jesty's Government were not actuated by any love of office, but that the party were influenced by an extraordinary want of firmness of purpose and a more extraordinary admiration of their leader, but he considered it a legitimate subject to inquire into a change of opinion. In the first place, the failure of the potato crop had been denied by the Noble Lord in his opening speech upon the measure, as the influencing cause of the change, but he ( Lord Eglington) must beg leave to differ from him, and exaggerated statements of a failure was the reason for the introduction of the measure. He did not mean to say that those statements were entirely without foundation, He did believe that there was a partial failure of the potato crop, but it was not of sufficient amount to involve the consequence of a famine. Some of the poorer inhabitants ran a risk of incur ring more than their usual quantum of suffering, and it cer tainly was the duty of Government to interpose to the best of their ability ; and if he thought this Bill would have the effect of relieving distress—if he considered that it would prevent the suffering of one poor family, he would support the Bill; but he did not think it would have any such effect. A great many measures could have been found to a ll ev i a t e di stress. An increase of the income-tax might have been imposed, but how the present measure could have the effect of providing against the famine in Ireland was quite out of his power to comprehend. There was no scarcity of provisions in Ireland ; the only scarcity that was felt there was a scarcity of money, and he could conceive no measure less calculated to benefit Ireland than the present. Ireland was strictly an agricultural et untry, and ;thousands of its acres were uncultivated, and if there was anything more incumbent on them than another, it would be to pass measures calculated to reclaim these lands. But he put it to them was the present measure calculated to have any such effect ? On the contrary, it put an end to all agricultural enterprise. But then, forsooth, they were told that they had been pampered into sloth by protection, and that competition would infuse life into them, and that where they at present grew three qrs. of wheat they would grow five qrs. But he did not understand how competition, which necessarily induced low prices, could have any such effect, Could the landowners, who depended for their inc times on the rents cf their lands, afford to lay out the necessary expendi ture, which would involve the probability of the produce of five years instead of three.—( Hear, hear.) He was particu larly interested in the state of Scotland, and he believed that the present measure would be most injurious to the farmers it , the western district of Scotland, who lived in the manner of labourers, he a!iould like to know how they would be able to compete with the low-priced corn. They had laid out all their money on their ground, and now, when they expected to 'reap some return, they were to be delayed by a sup ply of corn, at a cheaper rate than they were able to produce it. Bad land could not compete with the very low price, and it would be thrown back into grass. which it could hardly produce. Then, as regarded the principle of competition, suppose a new railway was to he started in competition aeainst an old-established one, both having the same termini, he would put it to them, would it conduce to the prosperity of the old? And if they had cheaper fares, even under a better mans ~temeni weal it tend to make their dividends 5 per cent. 'n ti of 3.? If after the ample discussion which had been given to thismea sure and after the deliberate opinions of the people, it should be decided that the country must be governed on the principles of free trade, he for one was not prepared to say that that House should stand in the way of the avowed wishes of the nation.--( Hear, hear.) As hereditary guardians of the people. as the protectors of their rights, as Peers of Great Britain. he called upon them to reject this Bill.—( Hear, hear.) He besought the Noble Duke, without whose assent this Bill could not appear before their Lordships, he besought him to stand forth once more as the protector of that country which he had so often saved. He called upon the Noble Lords opposite who adhered to those principles of protection which they had al ways advocated in common with himself though they differed very materially on other points. Laws might be re-enacted, statutes might be repealed, but character once gone could never be regained. He besought their Lordships not to share in the degradation which this ill-omened measure had brought upon the public character of British statesmen—( Cheers) and which he feared would cast a foul blot upon them in after ages.—( Loud cheers.) Earl DALHOUSIE and Lord BEAUMONT here rose simulta neously to address the House, and contested their right to do so for several minutes, during a scene of the greatest confusion. The latter Noble Lord struck the table several times in the most violent manner, and in the midst of most vociferous cries of " Dalhousie" and " Beaumont" shouted " I move the ad journment of this House." rc.l Dalhousie at length gave way, when Lord BEAUMONT, in a m,)st excited stale—l am surprised that the Noble Earl should persist in his attempt to prevent me from addressing your Lordship, because I said to him across the table that I would occupy but a few minutes of your Lordships' time—(Cheers)—feeling anxious, as he is, and all your Lordships must be, that this debate should conclude.— (Cheers.) And when I rose it was for the purpose of confin ing myself to a very few remarks. Although I confess, my Lord:, it is with rain I do contract my observations into a small compass, because I feel much on the subject. I have thought much on this subject.—(Cheers.) I have attended to every speech that has been made on this subject, and I do think that there are certain points which have not vet been alluded to.—(Hear, hear.) But, my Lords, notwithstanding this strong feeling, I will still keep the pledge I should have given, and if your Lordships will but lend me your attention for a few minutes—(Cheers)—you will find that I will not detain vou long.—(Cheers.) If, my Lords, in those few remarks which I feel it my (Icy to address to you, I do not dwell on that portion of the subject on which so much stress has been made in other parts of this discussion, I mean that strange change of opinion which has come over cer tain Noble Lords,l trust you will not impute it, by any silence on that subject, to any small value that I may be supposed to pist upon the consistency of character in 'public men. I feel as much as any man the shock which public morality must have received by this uncalled-for and injurious measure. And if the question of the conduct of the Government were brought forward separately, I myself would move a resolution, the object of which would be to reprobate their conduct, for on such a subject I would feel • it my duty to vote for such a re solution as that.—( Hear, hear.) But on the present occa sion, my Lords, I would confine myself to the subject before you, because it is my wish that this subject should be treated on its own merits. I wish, my Lords, to come to a consider ation, Svhether or no, you are now to abandon that principle, which for so many years as guided your commercial qualities ; and supposing you to come to that resolution, w i.. ,lier the measure proposed by the Government is the best niaie of i f:o doing ?—( Hear, hear.) These were the grounds, my 1 1.ort , on which I hoped to have seen this measure discuss.s, and the nd cnly of th grounds . e debate , t h t m need y v n o o t t e, say,sha shall be g Lords, iven no ng te s a t t this this m l e a a t e sure. You have based this measure on Its real ground, for with the exception or two Noble Friend., who sit together, the Noble Marquis and the Noble Earl who spoke on the former occa sion' if any arguments have been b roug ht f orwar d i n favour of the Government measure. I am sure we have had none from the Government themselves. What was the ease in regard to t n h e t r N y i o n b g l e t oEa bringr wh f o o r opened a t n h e e x d c e n b s a e tfe:r l wasted on tahliosng question,period He vote a long list of votes against his secretly entertained opinions.— ( Hear, hear.) Th e l arger portion of the Noble Earl's speech was to the effect that he entertained free-trade principles, but he did not venture to vote in accordance.—( Hear, hear. ) The remai n d er o f the Noble Earl's speech was a feeble attemp. t at argument with regard to the grounds and principles of this measure. After partially abandoning the cry of famine in Ireland, he said, My Lords, I know that it will be satisfactory, notwithstanding the ( - Astress in Ireland, that corn in immense quantities has been imported into this country. The fact was, they were about loseoutttoe the nha benefit ncethe of thevalueope of every to e b a n r e t h i o a c b i n e t c a e a i nnetdhd the b e p c y r e t s t e s h e a e royf of food.life--to competitiono Suchf a singlemed to mar b k e thetien objectorde order o t o f every projector o f t h e Bill. He was see aware that a great at tempt had been made to show a deficiency in the oss , l l, of potatoes in Irel an d . Thi s he drew froth thelast returns sent to England; but a great deficiency Lad occurred in the potato crop, and the natural acussequence was, that the peasantry would neglect the culture of potatoes for white crops. What eves might be the eloquence employed upon the subject, no charge whatever could be made respecting the points before the House ; and when the halatree of trade was talked of, it was of little consequeroo on which side this balauee was to rsst, but certainly, when there was anything to poise, it might well be asked on which side the advantage was tq be gained. They were told that gold was to pay for the exchange of goods, and gold was to be the grand maximum of faith in exchange. When he looked to this t radiosilaalanco o to f e t a r e a n de o , the h r e , thought that there were certain countries and that the result was the difference in expense, the difference being the respective value of manufactures in this country. From the returns that had been made to Parliament, ho was led to e!ieve that the principle they went, upon was the value of i a b ou e.—( Cheers. 5 Lord BROUGHAM was quite sorry to interrupt his Noble Friend.--( Great confusion. ) The Earl of WICKLOW really thought this was a grievous interference with the order of the House.—(Great confusion, and cries of Order, order.") Lord BEAUMONT must really persist, though it was with great pain, but it appeared from the returns, both from Prussia, Russia, and America ' that the price of labou r , and the price of wheat had been regulated by the price of gold. This being the case, he trusted their Lord ships would look upon the question in the proper light. Under the operation of the present system English goods were sold at Trebizand, and other places, cheaper than in the Eng- Rah market, Ile not oulx made this statement s but he found, on referring to the evidence of Mr. Gly before the Land Burdens Committee, that that geetleutan stated that in the China market the exports wets Felling et less and less e end that, many losses were in consequence so Wised. He believed the exports must be met by imports, and put gold among the' other articles that are to be estimated .in the calculation. Grain entered comparatively little into the foteien trade, as creniared with the home trade, which, ie regard to the exports . they were selling year by year for less and less, while higher prices were being paid for returns to be imported e •-( Hear, hear.) If they reduced the price of labeur dn the home market. to an equivalent extent, there would, however, be no loss. if tlie' rate of labour in both countries we; eppreeitneed there would be no lose. The great argument with regard to, tie eerg-lavrs. was, that in order to increase the exports of the country, it was necessary to increase the imports. • He believed iq that rekeet that the imports were regulated in a great measure by the state of the home market. Taking the population of England and Wales, they found the population to be 16,000,000, consuming each a quarter of corn. It seemed according to political economists there were twenty millions of acres of arable land in the country, of which fire millions of acres were tender wheat.' Supposing that each acre yield three quarters—and that eat less than was produced in many places he knew, but it was the average amount of corn yielded—the amount produced would he fifteen millions, being one million less than the whole required for the consumptien of the population. There was but one million of quarters which were male up from Ireland and the colonies. Ile amount of deficiency was so small as to leave but little to be made up by importation from foreign countries. —( Hear, hear.) But the. lowest food at present consumed by the people was wheaten bread. He made this statement, and he made it advisedly. It had been proved that When distress prevailed Leeds-erd Sheffield there was more wheaten bread consumed than at times when trade was flourishing; as at the latter period the consumption of butcher's meat was so much greater.—(Hear, Lear.) At present therefore, even in seasons of depression, there was but 1,000,000 to make up, though in many seasons the country produced sufficient to supply its want,. But it was said that free-trade would increase the quantity to 2,0:t0,00.1 quarters, e and that the great object of the change was to increase t exports be above the present amount of ' English grown quarters, over a! , country im, orta importation encouraging c 2 o , u o r o a o g , i o n o g o largeif so, imports.t.h eymust displ s a v e aeszoooo to :( 7 .) mwaonoulifiatice tse be substituted to a glee. too much, as butcher's meat would consumed. He a tu n r d er if s t o l f ie t r h e e w co a u s n a t n ry, extent for the wheaten bread at present v.ho slt increase t hen t h o a t t r t t e h r e s prosperityl fi , 00,00 a of among Sears the many an y d ea that it nearrriu ttoterheimal,luadnedtowroatstfait,leldfletehmatthdeurNinogble Lord produce of the country was equal to its demands, this meet would beau great wouldbefoxrd, d h th il a , t injefhtihsisrewspeeece so tth t e he p n re h se o r w it would m measure s the ex p ec t at i ons of those who expected that this meas u re wou ld brine a l arge accession of imports. There would be perio d s if this were true, there would he seasons and periods in which the l arge supplies exported would ' not be required, and then away would ea go the principle of the manufacturing interest, who expected from this measure a large, regular, and perma nent increase of trade with foreign countries.—( Hear.) The Noble Marquis also said that if they adopted this measure of free trade, the foreigner would regulate his supply, and there would be a regular produce for each and every year, but this was nothing more than wh a t th ey had at the present oe ment ; for the rn Noble Lord remarked, and truly, that under the present system the foreigner had warning when they were in distress, and when they had abundant harvests, This was just what he required ; and he seas, therefore, strongly , favourable to the present system, but whether they had a slid ing-scale or not, the foreigner would always be informed as fo the prices of wheat in this country.—( Hear, hettes)' If lleiy were to have foreign corn, ;it was bell:ee l : . he 'theirerhr, that it ;Could come into the countrytraseteg tt ee s iee duty. But it wits argued !. tlr having a knowledge of the state-cif titereatkete in'tlitscenntey e could easily stop the supplies during disturbed cited - Vitae+ did this agree with one or the'7teternen'irria , 4l by fli4 Noble and L, arned Lord Who later interrmittidlath?: Noble . - leae amnedriLd meridian Learned s statedo i r ,o d o...e iv i t h it a li f ';eNvattit)--16. earl h ob iere IT N ia . . - t a l l,' C,. -61 1r - ?.A &Melee r6el This "dtfileVe:4ll:kat'Aear.) the world, and lead leve.ef h.i's lie ,coeld not prevent coffi - C4eln e le' info "this was antAtti 17 M 1461 310 -11 4t ;Tiudb -.7 be l s fore he sat down.' The protectionists were asked nhv the English faimer.could not compete with the foreigner, 'Now, he contended, in the first place that the English farmer came into the market not on fair terms with the foreigner. He was as convinced.of this as he was living at that moment.—( Hear, hear.) In balancing the trade of tare country, the English farmer brought 16,000,000 quarters of corn into the market, while the foreigner only brought 2,000,009,. or 3,000,000-- the one, however, came positively loaded with taxation, while the foreigner came in free. The Enghih farmer had, perhaps, foreignerquei t quarter o f hiswh who wheat, paid and n yet tax li e r c . ompe n te e:e.a w e i f :.h the s to pay 4s. or Os., in the shape of direct taxation upon eve,ty o h w a n d ate to v ' e Noble and Learned Friend knew little or nothiree of Russia, or he never would have made the statement ho did with regard to it. Instead of Russia being in the position it was, the land was already clear and ready for plough. It required neither manure ear any thing else, and it only waited for the seed being thrown on the land.—( Hear, hear.) Would this ,city then compete with the British farmer on fair and equal terms ? He would wish to knowewhether his. Noble Friend was a. German scholar.—(Laughter.) Well, perhaps he was not—(Renewed laughter)—if he were, he would remember the description of the state of the corn soils in Russia. The description an immense tract of land, ready to receive the grain, and .only likely to give a return in case of a proper market being found. Not long ago, he was at the port of Goole, in Yorkshire, and he there saw corn which had been conveyed on board' a, vessel there at Ili. 6d. per quarter. They might use their in formation as they liked, but he could produce a confirmation of his statement, that the corn was conveyed on bird free, at 12s. Gd. per quarter. He referred to his auehority, as there was a disposition to contradict his statement. It was not probable that they could maintain that the price of corn would remain so low as it was at present. He knew that if a large trade was carried on in corn the prices would rise, but they would be subject to an enormous fluctuation. He had seen last autumn and winter in Germany that from. Monday to Wednesday the price of bread had risen sit kreutzers. When they did away with the bonding system they would be exposed to these fluctuations, and acct unpro vided with corn gores. 'fhe garnering systetn Was adopted all over the eantinent; in France, Austria, Ger many , T ur k e y, and even by the Facl - .: of Egypt, If ther-, was not sufficient provision its the country, tho people c.ell back on these stores, which as late as last winter had b e e n the means of preventing famine in many parts of the reountry. The b mding system rte England ensured that pre:rective systene.—( Hear, hear.) We had in bond a certain quantity of corn which was always a provision, end it was pretty certain rot to come into tee market until it was w/hterl, and it was certainly a safeguard to the country, and it was more certain and more economical than any other that could be arranged. They hail not in this. country whit was seen at Constantinople, when the pe op l e were clamouring at the arsenal dernanchig the surrendee of the provisions contained in the bnildmg. Something' might be done which would hinder the country beino eefiendent on others, If they were to follow the sugge. Q....10r; of his Noble Friend near him, they would cultivate entire stock, instead of having a proper quantity of arable land. His Noble Friend said that stock was a great improvement in farming, but they must have the stra . for the stock, and must have the land to supply that straw and receive in return the manure. If this measure was passed they would he eomielled to make up a suf.ni7ient number of quarters of foreign wheat, and having no bonded system, you will then be driven to extreme distress. Then would happen that grievous object for which they appear to strive—namely, the market will be only supplied just with what it wanted for the moment. Then; if anything sudden were to happen to the country to check this system. so that tors importation could not take place, what would become of the country ? Under the present law there was always a sufficient quantity in bond t o su ppl y th e d e fi c i ency, i n case tif an accident of this kind. The Marquis of NORMA NBY—Tiernember veer promise. Lord BEAUMONT—The Noble Marquis had reminded him of his promise. He had only to state that he bad a few words to say with reference to the question of population in extensive districts. There was no doubt that whatever the population was, there must be a grew demand for labour. Li this country, however, the population iv is v:ry dense, so that there was a great supply rather than a deficiency ; therefore, the whole argument drawn from the circumstanc•zs of America, did not in the least appl3 to this country. Their Lordships must bear in mind that this e •untry was the most densely populated country in all Europe. There was another point to which he must call their Lordship' atuntion, and that was the question of freight. The freights were greater from Selby and Goole to London than from Hamburgh to London. He was sorry to detain their Lord ships so long, lie spoke from the fulness of his feeling. He was extremely sorry to stop so short as he had done—he re. gretted that he could not proceed at further length ; that. wishing as he did that the debate should be concluded to-night, and knowing that they yet must have a long and an able speech from the Noble Earl opposite (Dalhousie). lie said a long and able speech, because he thought the Government we re bound to show some better ground thin had }et been done, r a n d nnF i ndrwi also r t i ln t s hi in the article of show what would be the diminution of price . . duringsome this better measure. reasons o n Ile the considered i of de. r e l d h e that Government.it was t h e i r o for t u n t t y rn ; t i ; h perthe cent.,m a material a 1 20 1 i ncome, or cent. or whether corn—w from the income of this country. He would refer to one point— htheethyeirntieindwertlod ta d k i e mi 3 n th n e e r . e n nt t a h l e o m f o l r a t n h d. Ridi T n h g e nf re y n n ta r l ks o h f ire th , is i3 c l. ou in ntr s y wn w e as pa l r 7 t / s . an f tV r ale i s. There were two parishes in Lancashire in which Mr. Ashworth's manufactories stood, where the rental was only 81, an acre. This fact was given in evidence by Mr. Ashworth before the Committee appointed to inquire into these matters. lie would conclude by observing that he very much regretted hlb h aer e tien c tghh o i could not e n bod o fe tfttohhrreeee their r e tv r hLe en t oi o rnad o gtst t he h hin e pet r silovin, 01dtfh subjectsnet their tek w i ifrnu h di i tn c h h eesr h s ed,Aew, Lordships,it taahsi detain whichdu t e ht s e ir ma o t ti s o thatf ' th an e: had heard him. g i I Ot the GH NobleA M Lor d explained. w a was t 0 preventH Lh iobject, a s odrar.e arlHiys esothnaNetces:dabp,iltdei and terLtuorpdtilln r fo e r ga t r i ti ke to co w n h v a e t ni h e e ne (t e .m o rd f Brougham) Noble ghai) had entirely misunderstood his statements and his arguments in reference to Russia and to Napoleon Buonaparte, and he had entirely reversed the in'•erence which he had drawn. His object in interrupting the Noble Lord was merely to set him right. and to prevent his (Lord Brougham's) arguments from being' misunderstood. The Earl — of DALHOUSIE hoped that their Lordships would do him the justice to believe that in rising to address them in favour of the second reading of this Bill, he did so under deep and unfeigned distrust of his inability to discharge the task intrusted to him, but he hoped, from the continual course of kindness which he had experienced from them, he would meet with their indulgence, while he made a few obser vations on the important question at I)resent under their con sideration. Nothing should fall f rom hi m to increase the feelings of discontent which prevailed among their Lordships, but he would a dd ress hi mself to the question without attempting v to excit e any i rr i tatien on so im portant a subject, !he debate, as far as i t h a d yet gone, had divided itself auto two considerations—the one referred to the measure itself, and the other to the conduct of those who had brought it forward. It was, he admitted, hard to endure, and painful to listen to the comments which had been made upon those who were identified with the present measure; and though he admitted the mortification, he felt, on finding him self in opposition to those with whom he had for.. Merly acted, still he must admit that there w as some cause for their comments which he had h ear d . It was not from any disrespect for their Lordships who dif. fered from him on this question, that he would not add ress t h e i r Lordships at any length. His Noble Friend, the lat e S ecretary for the Colonies, had laid the case so fully beforo them, that : he would feel it unnecessary to address them on the arguments ople o a Lft i o l sp v r a rdto n soth c eti e cip d i tesi o b ttnh y the r aaldtveahseonNob had oattdhtliaoes always been maintained, ns tbre3,e.n le should l olfi()ep ihnfnaiorini ftto m hwua e na c te i hnid o e n o stpth t r o aiintn t ei heir oui nion not upon any light grounds, but had formed it from att examination of the history of the commerce and the legislation of this country. That was the source from which his opinion was formed—that which his Noble Friend said he had sought for in vain —namely the history of facts. The tariff since 184'2 had placed the question of protection beyond all d oubt as. , to its eff e ct s an d as to the necessity of its alteration. Int; making th e s t atements which he now did, he made ne state.-` ment at vari ance w i t h t h e pr i nc i p l es an d op i nions which he had advocated for years. Ever since he bad the fortu ne part in th e a d m i n i s t rat i on o f a ff a irs hc . h_ad ttasfti l said anythin g b u t th a t w hich he , well that when he expressed his eent,Tnia, 0 , :ZZ 1;1 1q: