The Sun. — London, England, 1812-04-22 00:00:00

U' not impeach the &man_ idatbdlid religidnj - Ilavrisct it doe) oot inlertere MIA the establish ' le nti of this country. We d'd not object to the / 11 "%is Of the Cathelic tellgien as observed, by other llati ° l9 , and t herefo r we have no reason to object i ° an alliance wi4h Cat holtc melons. Acting on this principl e , we hat, without inconsistency, formed al-' with Spain, Portugal, and Italy. The- Noble L ' ord proceeded to notice the manner in which the Fatholics 'of Ireland had urged their claims. At the the fits' eoncessi ins - were grauted, their lan gnage way that of mildneoi and submission ; but the utnent they gainea a ,taliding-place, they resorted ° the lang uage of intimelatioe, atid such was the la nguage -which they had held of late. Some pub i I ' e dlions had issued front the prey on the subject, t) t Which the centetits were as infamously • false as 1 ' 1. 4 thing that ever was published in the world. In i "esst a disp o siti o n appeared to rake up all the sub leeels of differenee in former times, to irritate the 'ailiolics aga i nst the Protestants, and the Protestants a gainst the Catholics ; and, in a word, to work a Bellaration between England and Ireland. To pre. veal. this separation, they were told it would be . wise -t ° grant the Catholics what they asked. How would tfl ta prevent it Would she increase of their means aheir disposition to seek a separation ? Hit 84 w no reason to think this, but on the contrary he co uld not' bur apprehend, that with the means of ma king themselvea more formidable, the disposition to be hostile would be likely to increase. lf, when They _came with the language of intimidatiou, thelr " ti ttbaud s were complied with, it would have a ten ten' Y inflame them, and 'to call forth more un: :11Nonable requisitions, so that we should -soon be pla ced in a situation nut less deplorable than that in - Z lllll the poor. -Saxons stood when they were in the 1 - 41 of buyii : g off the Danes to save their possessions j or n being piundered. Brat then it was said that : 11 rds and cautions might, be devised to make all C a fe, and therefore it was contended they ought go into the Committee. was, however, to r emembered that nothing less than absolute COM c4nCe with their demands would satisfy them ; to o l : at purpose then should they go into the - Corn tiktee ? It was of no use, as the Petitioners had e lated, that ne ither as Catholics nor as Irishmen t `' 10 (.1 they submit to domestic nomination, or to ;P e up the veto. Now it was very singular that ( )se. wh o would not concede 10 their own Go v'Tntlik'ot the slightest interference in the Dn- Ilr'alien of r e eir Bishops ) , should wish notwith a I' e alld iag, to have the Established Plotestant Church ti kr their power. • 'Was it rational that those who ti t'ihed to advise the King with resped to the Pros ' sl ' lll establishments, should refuse to give him the 4 °sl conlratted negative on the nominations in their ow e " Church? Was it not necessary that care tiot ild be taken that our establishments should not 11,nder thecontroul of those who were known-to 11 ° 6 6:e to the Protestant Church This, however, ti , ° i d. be done ; if the Catholics were placed in a e ta 'ion in which they might gain the poWer of ti, o v ,.""nleof. To shew the consisteney of the Ca ,' b acs, he wouid state a sh o rt answer which had egin „• , ny one of their body on a question put bit atm respelling their conduct. A Catholic•dig liarY Was asked, " since they could concede the fneet lia l t °n of these Bishops to. the French Govern ecie' equal l' 3 l)Pened it that they could not place cottfidetice in their own r• To this the reply was ' that they could trust it to a true son of the •• •••,?urch, but not to a Protestant Princt." His Lord -mit) next, noticed the , resolation-lately come to in the Co unty of Galway, not to send any repr esen t a ti ve to i '.arliament who would-not- first promise not to so 'telt nor accept of any place, honour, or emolu . ! I ,ent, till all the Catholic claims were co nc ed e d,— what purpose, he would ask, could their Lord 2"Ps go into -a Committee after this ? Were they p re pared to conce d e a ll t h at was requ i re d ? If not, i t wa s useless to go into the Committee, as, with 41 36 than all - this the Catholics told them plainly tey would not be satisfied. He then went on to (N e w the consequences, that would follow of having i;atholics 'in the Government. Bound to their ri e ,lB , such persons could not be free agents, as if ,their conduct met with the disapprobation of their e ilri tnal guides, eXCOilinflUtiiCintiOn would be the e °llB ,Nueln e. How was it possible such persons Cold unite with x Protestant aravernment ?ea.• ld it be supposed, too, that such persons i ll - 'd go on' ,wit bout their Church ? And was t clot apprehended that a Ronaish Esteblish- T e : t .t Would follow Whoever made up his ii i11) ( 1 , then, to vote for the present motion, must i h 14 ,ke up his mind to give up the Protestant Church trel.itid, to make way for the establiShment of a Catholic Church.—(Cries of no, no !) He "tend e d t h at thi s wou ld f ol l ow i n a ll pr o b a bili t y, z expressing this coevidiun, lie concluded, re- Pel ting the words used by Lord Clare, in 1793, 1 ) ." 1 .011 will go on step by step till at last you cata- I sh a Roman Catholic-Church in Ireland." The Marquis of WeelEseay and the Earl of Ser..- tak . rose at the same time. The House called' on eerd Wellesley, the Lord Chancellor named Lord ii l'tirk. A short conversation ensued, in which e Lo r d Ch ance ll or , L or d L a uderd a le, and the `"hake of Norfolk participated. In the end the ttrquis o f Wellesley resumed his seat, and Lord 'aelkirk having first caught the Lot& Chancellor's i_ f e ' e ) was considered as being in possession of the ()use. Lord SELKIRK thought if the claims of the Ca tholics were conceded, the differences between them 1 1 : 14 the Protestants would be heard of no more. Y reliving the former from all their religious dis abilities, all distinctions between the two sees would u e done away„ and both would be united in one corn -11,1"n bond of union. He, however, was sotry to say 1 t could n,'n think, with the Noble Mover, that such , 2 ale/Niue would at once procure the immediate and d ecided support of nor four millions -of people, as he b e li eve d t h e pr i nc i pa l cause o f th e disaf -1 r eclion of the lower orders of the people in Ireland t o sPlio'g from historical sources, which could not 't once be done away. They seemed to feel the natural antipathy of a conquered people to their c "(luerors. This time alene could femme, but that time might have its proper operation, they c'uglit to banish, as far as lay in their power, every t t i ling that had a tendency to keep up existing dif lereneeS. The Marquis WELLESLEY said - he was anxious t° v he honour of speaking after his Noble and t l ' e artitl Friend w_ll9 'prvceded the Noble Earl who 'ad just down because he felt considerable stir ._ 6E hid speech, 116 had cielftimented tipiiii B . t&O;iotliCii was said to have tleen proposed in the County of Galway, and Winch it was thought might spread all over the country. The circumetaiice was not de serving of particular notice, if it were not for the importance which appeared to be attached to it by his Noble and Learned Friend (Lola' Redes dale). It watestated by that• Noble Loid, as a grand objection to the motion before their Lordships, that the Catholics of the county of Galway, at a meeting, in which Lord French was in the chair, had agreed to Resolutions, pledging , them not to vote for any matewlio would not subscribe sj to a test or declaration that he would not solicit, nor accept for himself, or tor any of his connexions personally, or through any other channel, of any place of trust, emolument, honour, or profit, until the remaining disabilities at feeting- the Catholics should be . removed. When his, Noble and' Learned Friend pressed this topic upon their Lordships' consideration, he did not aeena to be aware of the effect the test Would have in relieving the Administration from a weight of solicitation on the part of those who might be induced to subscribe to the test. But, really, he did not expect that such a topic should have been so insisted upon, and so se riously pressed forward into the -front of the argh went, nor should he himself have theught of ad verting to it in this manner, if it ha 3 not been tor the earnestness with which it had been urged.— Having thus touched upon that• part of the .mite went' of the Noble and Learned Lord, he shduld next beg ' lease to come to the immediate quas.ion befote their Lordships, which was, w hither, under all the circumstances of the case—atter all the peti-a Lions which had been presented and were lyilig upon their Lordships' table—after all the solicitation's which had been year after year preferred to Parlia- . ment upon the subjea—atter - all the applications in favour of the Catholic claims which had been for warded from various parts of Ireland as well as teis Country, and from persons of different religious per suasionse--aipplications in most points, as he should contend, favourable ; but, whether favourebte or not, all equally tending to sitengthen his view of the case., The question, he should repeat, was, whether, with alt these rousideratioas iti their con templation, they were tampered to ne alive tee piu position submitted to them by the Noble Lord who brought forward the subject ? He atruuld here beg leave to put a question to the N'able and leeareed Lord, and to -thick Lordships genet ally---A question which he should continue to pi ess most strongly Upon their attention, aid tr:luently revere to-, to alt he should say that niiii, short as he trusted that would be; he would e e l( whether any man who telt the importance of the subjaci, who thought with him, that Without cencession to the Ca hot cs, there would be infinite danger to the Protestant Establish ment, and that conceasioe would create analill,iettiointaol bulwark for its security and support , could, cue:sta..; ently with his duty toius coutory, bring i negative thisprOpositiort ? He was very ready to allow, that in the view taken of the subject by the Nuble and Learned Lord, such a decision might be con scientiously made ; but whilst he- was prepared to admit that for liumanity,"integrity, and honour, for intimate acquaintance with the .principles of the laws and constitution of the realm, and that for most of the other qualities and attaiaments ihatillusi t r h a e teZ . charaaer of a public man, thete was no man hi s sea perior in the country, tiea..ati behha, irons he took himself of the question under consideration, to look upon the notions entertained teshedleg it by that Noble and Learned Lord as erroneous. Those, undoubtedly, who thought that the concession of th e claims of the Catholics would be productive of danger to the stability of the Protestant establishments .in Church and Sate, and as direttly tending 'to subvert the alliance between both, could consistently come to a decision against this important question. Wit hout entertaining any intention to go into a discusaion-ot the question, whether a national religious esteblish ment be necessary for the security of the State, he should take that opportunity just to state that he looked ,upon such an establishment as not only ne. cessary, but indispensably essential to the liberty, the glory, the power of a State—to every thing con fleeted .with and contributive to the means, th e magnitude, -and the strength of a nation. It was, in his opinion, the primary duty of every State, to creel, to exalt, and to maintain, a national establish ed religion. But though this was a ptimary, it Was not the. sole duty towards God or man of thee l t i, laetce . , It ought to be exercised, undoubtedly,ilhuota o but c in alli ance with other duties—duties, w lion with which it could not be pertormed in a manner calculated to prornute the happiness, the . presperity,, and the well_ being of a nation.- e Ween he said this, be meant the duties of national charity and -benevolence- to provide tor the . hap piness of all the classes of the cottunueity. With eta that, what Was ,generally calied strength and vigour was violence; and lie must be permitted to say, that violence was not vigour, particularly in' support of a religious establishment. If violence of that description were to be resorted to, it must be evidently inconsistent with the happiness of that part of the people upon which it operated ; and con trary to that primary duty of charity, winch he had before alluded to, and to -which the - nation had. a .. right, as well as subversive of that equal-justice to which every member of a free state was entitled. -e-. What justice could thre be without liberty ? And what was liberty without order and regulating law ; or religion without charity to man, especially a Christian religion, still more, a Protestant religion ; but above all,in English reformed. religion,which em phatically and truly rested upon the principle of most effectually promoting the happiness of the people I The English national. reformed Church ought to he such that its professors should he able to hold out the hand of benevolence and the balm of charity to every other religious persuasion, in which lie could Contemplate the purity of its doctrines and the cot redness and integrity of its foundation, looking up to it with affection as well as veneration for its benign spirit.and salutary influence in the preservation of his civil rights, and the amelioration of his civil condi tion. A church of such a description should want nothing necessary either to its . dignity or splendour. The prin4le which every man would admit to be the grand desideratum was that which banished oppres sion, end contributed to the happiness of the peo ple. Religious worship might in some cases inter fere with human laws. Religious exercises should be advantageous to the community, and as such generally uninterrupted by the Government, but he del not mean to condemn the interteience of Go- hen tie in and his Creafoi must becorhe matter of hutrian actions; and this dila - titled, he was surprised • hew any man could sayehar it could at no time be Justly subject . to human law. As well might ' it be maintain ed that crime could not be • sub ject to human tem: Crimes had frequently been, committed in religious exercises. These, from whatever motives they proceeded, when embo died in human proceedings, were still crimes. He would probe this subject to the quick, because whatever complaints might be made of persecution when religioueexercises we•re: impeded,, he was of opinion, that the Government had a right to pro hibit them whenever they they appeared to be den gerous to the State. As a Noble Lord had said on a former debate, in such a case, " necessity creates a right," but pass the bounds of that necessity and persecution begins. He could not admit the claims of the Catholics of Ireland to be a claim of'rig:it; but the he would say, that when a large body of men (like the Catholics) ‘eere designate.d as:unfit to serve their country on account of their religious opinions, he thought they bad a strong ClaiLll on the justice of their country, to have such disabilities removed Having stated this, it was his wish to follow the tie- . tails into which it naturally led ; and he must say, upon a review of the whole state of those laws which • were now proposee'. to the consideration. of The. House, that so tar from. being, as they wero some times represented, a fundamental, immutable, and Irre-veteible part of the Constitution, they were above all I!,es. codes ever instituted ie the , world, the most distinctly marked as tempe,arv e and liable to be al tered and' varied by times and circumstances. The question would come finally to this plain short is sue. All were agreed in the necessity of protect ing the .Established Church of England at the ex pence of their lives, if the-alternative shoukl be. put, of protecting' her in all her immunities, in all her features of -- doctrine and of discipline, and in the po-session of every power which was Feces 4ary to heecharatiet, her dignity, and her honour. Bat then came the question, whether this object • would he best accomplished by a system of restraint, - ora system- of coneiiiation ?' In his honour, in his conscience, he thooght the security of the etnpite de pended tin the just consideration of this question; on the just consideration of this point, . whether a system of• exclusion and restraint should • continue, or vvhether_a system of charity, of conci-e liation, of harmony, and peace, should be again re verted to ? In all that he had said, or should say, npon the subject, he would inculcate the absolute necessity of consideration. He did not call upon - the' Home to make concessions to the Catholics, but to consider the laws atfecting them. The quesiion had se much agitated the public mind, the hope of con 7 cession and amelioration had so very deeply inter ested them, that inquiiy was rendered still more ne cessary than ever. Would their decision, be it what it might, carry such-weight -and authority as if the question had been teferred to a Committee ? But go ng into the details, he would address the Noble - Lord 'as a Noble Earl or ea former night, in a speech replete with pure eloquence, practical wisdom, and Statesman-like views, had addressed the Noble Lord on the Woolsack--" You ask me to ,chew you my securities, 1 ask you to show me the danger."— Or to depart from the quotation, though not trout the spirit in which it was -dictated, he would say, " sheer ale peer present security." in what situation then did Ireland stand ? They were aware that nearly the whole nation, at least a considerable part of it were Roman Catholics.---. According to our present policy, these persons were admitted -to a certain extent at the Bite they were allowed t o reach a certain point of rank in the army. They were admitted to the eledive franchise, "out excludedfrorn the right to sit in Parliament, or - even to act as Magistrates, except upon such recom mendation as was seldom obtained, that of the Lord Lieutenant himself. He had heard varions modes of representing the state of the question. It would seem to any one exercising his unbiassed judgment in the first instance, that such a state of things must alienate their minds ; but in order to meet this ob jection, it was -- contended, that the restraints of which they complained operated • generally, and therefore constituted no hardship; that all per sons must - submit to certain tests before ,they could sit in Parlidment, and consequently • that no direct invidious distinction could be charged against the Government in that case. This appear ' ect to him to be a most extraordinary mode - of teas • soiling and a most evasive and unsatisfactory manner of putting the case, fur it might happen as it actually did in this instance, that the tests might be per fectly consistent 'with the faith of one party, and - direCtly the reverse with that of the other, who might deem them incompatible not only with their faith, but with their conscience and their honour. Supposing, for instance, that the Office of Lord President of the Council was vacant, as it was the other day, and that any individual accepting of it was bound to take an oath that he thought the expedition to Copenhagen was a master stroke of policy necessary to the interests, and conducive to the honour of. the nation. He could see very well, that one Noble Earl , would not only subscribe heartily to the proposition, but . re joice in such an opportunity of manifesting his sincerity, while others would hesitate and refuse ; so' that though one Class of subjeets might take the test consistently, another m ght be ready to expire on the spot, rather than adopt its principles. was, he most say, a lII V SUIC unequal and unjust. There were some who regarded the question merely as a struggle for-political power; for his part he could not draw the distindion between civil right and ,political power. , . In a free state- he' would say, that political power Was a ne cessary concomitant, as it constituted a necessary protec tion to civil right ; he did not say the attual•possession of political power, but the eligibility to it. There were m an y who insisted that this was no hardship, who Wure.ready to address the Catholics in the name of their Protestant lire. threat, and to represent to them, a ter hiving exercised the' great fundions of the State, and experienced its dignities in their own persons, and in the persons of their ancestor's, that they were quite mistaken in their feelings upon the sub ject, who were ready-to exclaim--" t Gentietnen, you are quite wrong in regretting your exclusion from those dIStIIIC- We have gone through all'the offices, we have tasted all the honours, we have mingled in all .the business of Go., vetument, WA Cif party, and we tell you that ' all vanity and vexation of spirit.' The true state of,,ha)opine,4s is that ill which we shall keep you, the' greatest r ood is that we shall contnue to bestow upon - you -•a quiet philosophical ooscurity ;" beyond this in their generosity they Might pro. raise them a security in person and an property, but to wJnim would they dare to den) it ? This was ILA a boon, n was a right secured to them by the CoPstitution under which they were born, ai , al refused to none, but L, the •lowest criMinals who had forfeited their inheritance by their crimes. For his part, he should say, that office was thegreatest glory to which a British subject could aspire, but to he shot out sit the hope of high employment, tot e excluded taut the pos sibility of counselling the State, of advising up- it The ques tions of peace or war, of being occupied in rite pturriOtion of public happiness anddoniestie prosperity, of beini . , 'raised by a gracious sovereign to the most distinguished tumours, ac companied with the delighttuiconsciousneas of owitte them partly to his own servii.es, and pill ) to the glorious Consti maim, by which thr,;e were encouraged; to. he e-x -c,uded from occupati,iia and- ftelings, aiticiewards of this • . . Tategreat Demcitthenei, when defending himself against 114 adversary, stated, as the calamity he dreadet aree.e all others, the loss of the favour of the State. 'ln such a 'predica— ment did the Catholic4-of I reland stand at this inement ; they had lost the favour ofthe Stare, a loss of which no one could calculate the value, but those tvho experiiheed the Want, and dseerved the posseasi iri. But this was net all ; rine of, the hatdest circumstances connected with their condition was, that the code had a tendency to degrade all tense who were affeded by it.—That the spirit was more severe than the letter, and that its objects were marked tort as snare thine in the nature of criminals, or at least of suspected per eons. No one had- a Inkier (Tudor) of the lieeralny of the present head of the Goventineht in I reland, bit it was iinpos sible thr hint or for any one, while such a code remained, to res. move the stigma from r•at body. It w s iinpessinle not to think it productive of daileer to the established church. The pretence was, that it was iidirded as a aeaurity tor zliaz esta blishment, but he hid always considered them the worst ene e mica of religion wh represented rewidionsa disabillrtes , and penal laws, a necessary adjunct to the establi , bineut. fie • knew a Prelate remarkable fer ail the mild and virtuous at-- tributes of his ref isti .n, woo, ne was sure, would not deny, that if the eStablishment could possibly exist without th em it must become stronger twin their misuse-sit:lot absolutely necessary, they were p-ssiiively injurious. , Would not afly man, who was asksil where the relaxation of these securi ties (it securities they could be called) would be attend-if 'sifts must danger, would he not-point to the subaltern branches of the army and navy ? Yet in those subdtern oranches, they were discominued,and discontinued in the worst °fall possible way,- with a prohibitiun ot ad educe:mein. The seine was the case with the Bar; a curious line wits drawn to pi even, them from serving the - Crown Could any thing be more injuri ously projected to- inntse disleament and aggravate danger? Such was'the pol:ey toward, I ielenit, and wino was the re.. stilt ? Could we boast a vigorous Church' Establishment in that part of the United Kole-dim ; or did he nut decnbe it justly when he said it was in. establishment of Bishops with out Clergy, and that in some parishes there was iteith - r elebe. house nor Parson ? He del n mention this as-a reproach to Ireland, but te the State. The Churais had trot streogilt to bear up against the inass of discontent created by this sys tent, rind the expedient of arraying its debility in arnetunsei veil only.to acceler he its decline. He could out conceise how it was possible for such a state of things to continue, and there tire it was that . tie pressed their Lordships to nicer the cunsi deration. Ile would say one word on the advantages to be de.. rived from the system he rec o mmended. These persees' whO were cemented together in a mass or discoutent by re. ligioil, he would admit into the Constitutioie H e w ou fn allow, that religion was one of the greatest motives or human action, but it was not the only.anotive ; there were others winch tended to weaken a"tra dissipate net operation. The Roman Catholic . Church was more sub. jeer to the Court of Rome than any other establish ment ; but in Roman Catholic countries he slid not see that they had any notion of submitting to the Pope, and one of the main dangers with resped to Ireland struck him to be the circumstances of the Roman Ca tholics not being enore under the Protection of the State, of the priesthood not being mote connected with the ariatocracy • of the country. lie, therefore, should propose to take a security against spirituals, by giving them temporals On presenting theta - with. this body , of danger, he - would ask, would they not consider, the subject, in justice - to their . King, in justice to their country. in justice to the great cause in which they were embarked, could they re fuse it ? The nexi point Which suggested itself was the danger which was apprehended from the removal of die; restrictions. In reference to this, it would be their duty to compare the real danger on one hand, with the alleged dan. ger on the other. Our present security was in oaths,- some of which they refused • to take, and othgrs of which they took, so that our principleof security was reliance upon their truth. This was rather strange that we should rely upon . their truth when looking for securities, and charge thee) with falsehood when estimating their deserts. We presumett upon one side that they would not violate oaths, ant on the other refused to trust them. But what was the ground on which all our terrors rested ? It was found that the Catholics, it admitted into the Constitution, would seek the abolition of the present Estahl shmeitte. Supposing, tOr the sake of argument, this principle to b: fixed in their minds, was it not possible- that it might arise from the ey stern ef exclusion under which they laboured ? . It so, their admission to al the privileges of subjeds' would extinguishthe principle, and if not, they might be sure it would not increase the means of its eeforcement, On the contrary, it would weaken those, means, by preventing the whole from acting as the whole might be inclined to ad, with such a stimulus to discontent. They lndi theoaths of the Catholics against the principles of which they were suspected, they had the condtid of Catholic Europe; and what was singular, the declaration of the last free Pope, But the Ccurecils of Cooetalice„ and the stere e ehateet johea Huss, was advanced as a pretence to supersede ail those tesi. timonies. -It was avowed somewhere, that the Pope was in fallible ; but suppose he had asserted that Parliament was omnipotent, that the King was immortal, or other epparently fantastical, but practically beneficial doctrines; he sleauld pie ler the pradtice of the people at the present day as the best foundation for judging of their condutt and opinions, Had Buonaearte and the Pop! suppressed the liberty of Spain, nay, had not the spirit by which that country was animated, originated, with tlie.Catholic Clergy? Had they not against Buonaparre. with the Pope in one hand, establish. ed the Government in the hand of Ferdinand the Seventh, a prisoner of littonaparte, in the face of thb l'ope's Nuncio ? Could it be said that there was any necessary cohnedion be.. tweet this religion and arbitrary Government ? Ile wzt4: aware that the unfortunate and infatuated larne.s the Second was attached to Popery, but that was not the main fee. ture Able!) formed the Revolution, it was not tile in. , strument, it was rather the symbol ; which of \ the two goddesses, Popery or Arbitr a ry Power, he loved best, it was impossible tb say, but it. was probable, that he • loved one for the sake of the other, and both for the site of each. - referresl to the Bill of Right s as a corrohoratit of those opinions, and - maintained that tests were the tern.. • porary security necessary at the time; but the spirit of the Bill of Rights was immutable, eternal, and universal, ap. plicable to all times, arid adapted to all eircumaranees. e . 1 he present policy of GovernMent was to sacrifice that which ought to he permanent, :in otter to prep imp that which was only temporary. - He also quoted the authu rity of King William against tests, and repeated his ex. hortation to go into inquiry. Petitions wa e re present.. ed, 'and a debate upon the negatur of- considering them was considered a discussion of itte subject. He called for a Cpnunittee, when they might examine the cause, and, origin. and nature, and subsequent relaxation of those laws,. , and when they woulat examine the futeleinental deistrine, whether the Protestant eetaniishment- should he slipperted by exclusion and civil- penal , e, or by that. chnity which was consistent with the mildness of our religion, With die charader of tettr country, and the parental spirit of this great stafel The Earl of LIVERPOOL. said, that though his Noble • Friend had called upon their Lordships so tar to coentenence the motion as to go into inquiry, at al l events, and in comm.. plation,of any result, he teit himself inclined to differ trona .. him Must decidedly, and to . maintain'that if, in consideration of the present times, - of the state of-the public mind, and the constect of the Roman Catholics, they were of. opinion, that . no benefit could follow from - genie into a Committee., they (eight not- to go into itoe The adoption of such. a step, under suds circumstances, would • have a ten. dente to delude , all ernes, and ending as it must end, in that case, could not tail to inflame the Catholics still More. If hi, Noble Friend's view was right, end the danger of re fusal so gteat as he had represented it, the best way Wcond be to exstinguish the disabilities by a law at once, and put an end to them altogether. He was-anxious that the distinct e point at issue alloulst be known, and without entering into/ any detail asp the necessity of religious establishments, he - would allow that every restr aitit upott a t lie religious or ;solid:" cal sentiments of the people, was in it sel t an eail only to be justified ny the necessity of the case. l'h:s brought the question to a fair issue. As to the erineiple that rue tests" were general, and therefore no evil, lie only understood it in this weir, as an assertion that there was not 10 -the Sta. tote Hoek ally direct principle whatever of exclusion, but that the tests Operated in an iodised ma,mer. Then came the question, whether they welt, necessary te the esta blish:nein s The first thing that presented itself in the in quiry, was the distinction between toe teats in Eegland and Ireland. In England, it WaS necessary that the parson ap pointed to the oftiees aliould receive the Sacrament, after the manner en use Chinch ot England . ; hot in Ireland the tests bore on Catholics exclusively. i t they were ,unfined to tioCirii-es purely.i - oligious, there was no •reasoe why the Catholic should be eiacesi nit a wore looting they any other dissente s ; but time fact was, diet they related to . paints with the - psnatical gover fluent of the country. Ile al ludei to - the lath et Suprem:ey. It was an (see silo pie-of stet oration. - It did nut call Upon them to act now. ledge the Kiire, as tired of the Crieren, hut to deny that any Foreign 'V nece tor l'OtellLte siiruhcl possess that authority. r a person Leo Li be toulati who k 4 evv the (inference between a Plotet.t.tut antra Papist, stet informed that there was It country in Eunipe veliten aimed et universal jai - belie-non, and that the that Llattil halt :MIA:Xi:a, test of aleiuration on the intr oduction to office, woeld not the pro. posit toe as Just Kasonaole ? As to tee eneaeae erti rie .._.l unfi to. 1111 l /Irm vnw.r