The Sun. — London, England, 1823-04-30 00:00:00

mivlrr any pritatiOnsfOr the sake of this war. Now he could rot pretend to know how it was with the lion. Member's con stititents ; but as to his own he was able to assure the House that they were willing to incur no such privations fmany:stich thing.'(Bear, hear !)---As far its he knew, the feeling of the country was against war.—(fleari)--ltot if the honour of the ‘ , ..uiltry should requite it, he had no in:Atation in saying that tviitonstituents, and he believed the country at large, would ;ti heart andband with the Governme,nt in proinotion of it..— .( U. ar hear!)---Ile rejoiced most sincerely that Minister' had done what they had done, 118 tar as.regarded the result. to.this country of their negociation. Whatever opposition he might feel it his duty to make to many of their measures; he should not have acted honestly if he hal not offered them thank's for their conduct on the present occasion.—(liear, hear, hear'!) should " give his hearty concurrence and'approbation,to Vie atnetulmeni: Mr. 1101t110IISE explained, The observation 'he had' made, which had been ended to by the lion. Member for Cumberland, was, that the majority of his' constituents have been wall* to undergo anrprivationa, , in consetpignce -4Af "a war resulting from a strong protest on the part of the Duke of Wellington at Verona. But he had qualihed this declare. tinn by saying, tiratit must be distinetly,ttoderstood that the. Viar must be undertaken in behalf of the liberties of Europe against the Kings of Europe. Mr. ROBERTSON said, that he was anxitins for the peace of this country ;. hat not for one of so dubious a-character as Vila. He regretted to find, that after eo much had been sacri ficed to conciliatieg our great Allies l by the late lamented Mar quis of Londonderry, we had so little influence with them. Had we secured to our:wives, as we could, those great advan tages tnotieNavy and our Commerce, which bad been once in 'wee power, we shottld not have seen other Powers giving a preference to the sugars' of threign Colonies, and laying the .commerce of this country under burdens. it we hail shewn eeirselves adverse, he Was sure France would not have offered violence to the Constitution of Spain. The Unice of Welling.. On, as a British soldier, was unable to cope with the Despots of the Continent, who were trained up in the art of concealing ley ebeir speech the real sentiments of their hearts. 'When in Paris-Ins- Grace addressed himself' to the King of Fiance, it was seen how much that Gervernment waintaggered by die Order for recalling the delivery of the note sent to lie should have gone on to• remind the French Monarch that , 400,000 of his people under .Bonaparte had found their graves in Spain. He should have reminded him of the part acted by this country , - on the return of Buonaparte troM Elba, es a proof of our good will e. at the same time telling him that theinterests of England, of France, and ot Spain, all forbade the military occupation of the latter country. Had this course ebeen taken we Should have had a permanent peace, so formid able, he was• persitaded, was. this country. ih the eyes of the Continent. Ifs thought Majesty ' s Ministers were much deceived in' their estimate of, the expellee of our participation in this war: It was not a question of one army . , opposed to another but'of a people struggling for their liberty.—(llear !) Whenever we might go to war, we ought 'not to send a soldier to the Continent, or to meddle with the Continent at all i we might, without incurring any additional ex pence, fit out a fleet which would sweep any enemy of ours from off the face of the seas. This would cost not more than two millions and, au half, which might be taken out of our five millions of sinipine, and would therefore not prove any additional expellee. Uniler this plan of operations, the country would be little affected by a war. But if the French should occupy Spain, and we be, in consequence, shut out from it, we should not have a tingle friend an the Continent. He &mid therefore, dissenting from the course taken by Ministate give his-Support to the orileinat motion. Mr. J. WI'LLIAMS-(of Lincoln) eakeidered the question ne reduced to a smart' Compass. As to the attack made on Spain by France, there was not, in that House, one ditaientient voice. In fact, a condemnation of that conduct war's parr of the spirit of our Constitution ; aqd this being the case,. a couree of remonstrance equal in Strength to the injustice of die Attack, ought to have been observed by Ministers. lie deniedaliat the question was whether the wereefbr peace or war ; but Whether war had been prevented by. the.polfey of the Right lion. Gentle man opposite. The present feverish state of tranquillity could not be called peace. It was not worth , half a- yeer'e purchase. The question was Upon the langtrage, Used by .Nlinistere. All that was b nown in that Haase was that . war had begun, and that there wait no knowing where it would stop. it might lie proper for the Muse to look at the manner in whisk our offers of mediation were received by the two contending parties.— Spain, the injured' party, chewed an anxiety• for our good office* and our good opinion; but the French alinieter gave a contemptuous rejection to them,. though they recommend ed us to chew our good' °Mee% at Madrid. The French said that " they mild. not discuss upon theoriel„ nor orbi t-tate upon principles." Upon this hint, the Duke of Wel. lington sent, by Lord 'Fitzroy Somerset, what waA calleti a. Memorandum, hut which he (Mr. Williams) ,called a Letter ltlisaive; and what was remarkable enough, instead of read• lug a lecture of forbearance to the aggressor, we read one on moderation •to those who were about toesuifer. This was giving a species of authoritative advice. The. Deke said he thought every good Spaniard must desire to see some alter ration in the Constitution; but the Right lion., Gentleman ('Mh. Canning) had, himself declared, that atiy eiteration. ought not even to be thought of under the menace of a tbreign Fewer, His Grace had said: in this Memorandum, that there was 31A reason for suspecting that the King of Spain would abuse his power ; but he (Mr. Williams) begged to ask whether any one could have the least confidence it him.--(Hear, hear I) Bet the language of the Ministers was singularly mild when they addressed the aggressors. The Duke of Wellington had express: ed his approval of the army of observation on the frontiers of Spain and France, and had added, that st he thought there was. no person who must not approve Of it." His Grace then went en to admit that even interference might be justifitible . in a tertain case which he had not clearly defined, though define don here was absolutely necessary. There Ware one and only one other view which he would, take at' the papers before the House. From first to last, no censure had been applied by :Ministers to the invading parties. There was nu,dlrtsct re menstrance speaking the truth boldly, and giving thitinfamous transaction its proper name. He knew that the conduct of the French Government was spoken of with severity in the dispatches to our Ministers abroad ; 'but he defied. the Right Honourable Oentlemate opposite to eliew, in any. one of the 'papers, one expression of dignified, proper, and adegtiate cen sure 4m the French Government addressed to that Government. Indeed Ministers, even after they had been apprized of the firm determination of France tteinvaele Spain, they had made the same professions of good will towards the tench Govern ment. For these reasons, he thought the gotinteY had a right to complain. He thought the opinions of this country had not been properly and forcibly expressed in our Mantle:eine ; and, with regard to the consequences of this war , w h o could now answer for the various contingencies which might arise ? If France succeeded in her attack upon Spain, who could say that the attack would terminate there ? It was clear that we were not secure of peace, for even the Amendment proposed by die ifonourable Member for Yorkshire looked to a possible case of war, by pledging the House to support the honour and dig nity of the country, should that support be necessary. Had the ihike of Wellington, after having tried remonstrance, said to the French Government ; " You may poseibly l by engaging in. this war, have England fur your enemy, and it is poseible that I may again have to assist in the defence of Spain against die attacks of a French army," lie in his conscience believed that the name of leingland would have produced the desired effect on the wavering Councils of Prelim-4110er, from the concludedby saying he should vote in. &voile of the originnl mother'. The Cliet NC ELI.OR of . the EXCHEQUER said, that when the Honourable and !Awned Member for Knaresborough (cUr J. Meekintosh), in an earlier stage of the question now bee fie the Iltriee bad said that Ministers were under a serious and awful, rtssponsibility, he had rightly described their situation. When they recollected the eufferings endured, and the sacrifices made by the people during the last war, thq could not even contemplate the renewal of such a war with Out feeling tilo.deepest anxiety. His Majesty's Mi. sorters were sensible that a renewal of war would be upon the must important principles, that it would area cone eideratioue the most valuable and dear to this' country That it would also affect a country to which we were hound by the most solemn ties of friendship and treaty ; in de fence of which country we bad expended our most valuable treasure, end had , shed our best blood. Well did Ministers +know that these considerations imposed upon themselves it weighty responsibility. They knew that the question raised by these considerations would warm the feelinge tied engage the sympathies of that House, as well as those of the country; and that it would not be difficult for there to excite the gene roux enthusiasm of the people, and carry the country , at once into war. But for this very reason they had considered it their bounden duty toad with caution. Many circumstances would contribute to render war highly detrimental to us ; and he here begged in the outside of his argument, to deny that the question of " Peace or war" was unworthy of consideration in looking At the question before the House. He, on the contrary, main tinned that 0 consideration of this. question was inseparable frotn. tbett which was before the Hotiee.—(Cheersa—There *le abundant reasons to lead to s (=elusion that it was their paramount duty to maintain for Europe, if possible, but et all events for this country, the continuance of peace.— Whatever might be their sympathy for Spain, they must not forget that if they had been called upon to take a part in the war, they must have decided for one of two parties in that tountry. The lion. Member for Westminster, in the course of his speech last night, had denied that Spain was so divided as 'she kid been rupreset?ted to be ; and had said that the inteili ent..wi;re far the Constitution, and that only the priests and the *Goma persons were against it. lie (the Chancellor) theught. ie was in this circumstance that theeniefortnne, con, sisted.: Ile :was sorry for the ignorance of the people. He was sorry that they did not think a free Constitution was of advantage to Spain, and indeed to every cinintry.---(Cheers.)— , Ifs protested that no part of the conduct of Ministers had been dictated by an indifference to the extension of that liberty which we enjoyed oureelves tebut then he contended that ,we fought not to engage id tte civil wet of a foreign country. • No policy, could be more objectionable than that of taking upon eourselvies to decide between contending - parties. Ile was 'aware that war was particularly to be lamented in the present state of Europe. He was, by no means, pelectly'satiefied the appearance of affairs on the Continent. There existed a state of things froin which it was the interest of this country to keep' loof. • Contests were not no*: carried on as they, were formerly. They were not for :t peovince, or, any such compa ratively trifling consideration. They' were between revolution on the one hand, anti power on the other. He warmly wished success to the cause of liberty.—(Cheers from the Opposition. ) —He was against our engaging against liberty; but he was ;Also unfavourable to our supporting revolution against exist- • ing establishments. He believed he might take it as generally admitted, that peace was the wisest policy for us. Indeed it was impossible fbr any man of sense and feeling nett to be „convinced that, after so sanguinary and protracted u war as - .the last, the country, stood in need of repose. War, there fore, should not be' decided upon without an imperious and Averrangneceetity. The Hon. Member (Mr. Robertson) had held out, that the war, if we were to engage in it, would he a short one, and' said that we could carry it on at a small' ex. pence. But he world appeal' to every one who heard him, when` the flame of war was Once kindled who could say when it wouldbe extinelnisted.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.) Ministers hail been accused of deluding the country ; but had they phingedainto war, and ptofnieed the people that it would be a short and economical war, and might be carried on by means of our , navy only, theymight indeed be open to the charge of deluding the countrye. end if, as could not be denied, there was somethitig peCulter in the present situation of Europe generally, and of this country in particular, the circumstance cre ated an irresistible ergietnenr our' avoiding that fatal extremi ty. It was impossible to leolvat our condition, without refer ence to the question of " peace orwan" 14 peace were conceded to he our policy, the question for' the House to decbte was, whether Ministers had taken the best course to, prevent the war between France and Spain, and particularly if that war proved unavoidable, whether that course had beep folloWed up to prevent our being affected by that war. Ministers by the eiteeent motion, however, were called to account because they had not prevented two countries going to war. It was principally objeeted against them, that their tone had not been sufficiently " high and dignified." But these were terms which necessarily induced much difference of opinion among Hon. Members. Some might think dignified remonstrance would be conveyed in the declamation of the Noble Member for Nev. Sarum (Lord Folkeston), others might prefer the keen anti bitter sarcasm of the Honourable and Learned Member for Winchelseu (Mn Brougham), and others again would adopt the epigrammatic and classical language of the Hon: mover.— It wale easy to use vituperative language; but, although he would never Wish that any Member of the English House of Commons should be restrained in the expression of his senti ments upon. Foreigh Governments, or of Foreign Sovereigns (Whether in peace with us or not), although he would wish the expression of those sentiments to find no sort of restraint but in their own notions of propriety—( H ear, hear, from the Ministe riatßencheig—he must be permitted to observe that this free dom of language could not be introduced into the intercourse between different Governments. Besides, when Honourable Members spoke in that House with warmth, they wished to inspire othel. Meetibers with equal warmth ; but a system of teis desciiption could never be applied ,to diplomacy. Such a, system would neither maintain our honour nor preserve our peace. We might feel a desire to reprobate the conduct of those with- wham we maintained diplomatic intercourse ; but we should remember that they had feelings as well as our , selves, ' and a considerable degree of national pride. When irritating language began, there was an end of all effective cor respondence. Vi teen our object was to influence, what course was the nlost tti attain it then that of moderate and ra tional persuasion The lion. Member for Weenninster had said that the Allied Sovereigns were leagued against all revo hitionee Mr. HOBHOUSE said it was the word " freedom" which he had used. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had not the least wish to quarrel with the explanation of the Hon . Member. He had said that the Allied Sovereigns were leagued against " freedom." lie it so. Ile (the Chancellor) did not advocate their conduct. What he contended was simply this--- If we were to have any intercourse with them, we must apply our reasoning so as to produce, if possible, an effect upon their minds. But this was never to he done by invective. it was better and wiser to chew them the danger to which their conduct would expose their own institutions and their power.— lie was convinced that it was perfectly useless to resist the pro. webs of liberal principles. lie believed that in consequence of the increasing . intelligence of the people, those principles would make their way in spite of every opposition, and he rejoiced at It.—(Cheers.)—Let the House leok at the situation in which we stood with respect to the Allied Sovereigns. They had formerly been united with our great enemy against us.— (11 ear, hear, from the Opposition.)—He could assure Ilon. Gentlemen, be and they had no difference of opinion on that subject. lie was now merely proceeding . to state our own situation.—(Hear, hear !)—They at last joined us; and we hailed their alliance against France, because it was a benefit to Europe, anti especially to ourselves. An alliance was formed ; because, after so long and extraordinary a war, it was Impossible to suppose, that all the elements of it would become tranquil at once. Our relations with those Sovereigns were of a very peculiar neture ; and he could not but think it unwise to say, that we ought to break up the alliance with them; if our dbject was to preserve peace. The language we had held towards them wae, un doebtedly that of persuasion rather than menace. We showed them the dangers to which they would expose themselves, and Ministers considered this as the most judicious, and likely to be the most effective course in treating upon this su4iect with them. But he hoped it would be distinctly understood that he did, not admit we had made no remonstrance to them, or bad suffered them to believe that their principles on penning the allience were the same as our own. If the house would look at the paper, the first of the second series of those be fore the House, they would find that it contained an argu ment--a reasonable argument, to shew the unjust principles by which they were actuated in the year 1820, It added, that our sole object in entering into the alliance, was the preservatiOn of territorial possession, and that we disclaimed interference with the internal affairs of other nations.—(Hear, hear, hear I)—This document was the more important, be cause it had been said that the Noble Author of it was leagued with Foreign Despots against the liberties of Europe. —He scarcely dare trust himself to speak of that Noble and departed person but he hoped he might venture to, do so without losing sight of the question to which he hat to ad dress himself. lie had been strongly attached to that Noble Lord; he knew the sterling nature of his mind--(Cheers)---and appeccieted the important services he had rendered die country. —Never had man been more publicly misrepresented than that illustrious Nobleman. He undertook the management of our foreign affairs under the most unparalleled circumstances of" difficulty, and conducted them with an equanimity and decision of temper peculiar to himself.—(Cheers.)—The House knew how he checked all angry feelings, and conquered the strong est personal prejudices against him.—(Cheers from all parts of the liouse.)— It was no easy task for him to go to.Coe gfeeti and say—" this is the exact state of things which we desire id see in Europe." No fair opinion could be formed'of him unless they looked at the peculiar situation in which he was placed. The two sentences, however, to which he had referred were, of themselves, a -complete and an unequivocal denial me the part of England of any desire to attack the liber ' ties of mankind. And it was to be remarked :that this was a paper not intended, in the first instance, for publication. It was a 'secret document, addressed to the Foreign Powers in order to produce an effect upon them, and It contained the sentiments of the Noble Author as well as these of the English Govern 'dent. He trusted the House would pardon him for having for a Moment gone aside from the question.—(Hear, hear !)—There were ac scions which must excuse, thought they might not jus tify, such digressions. In this :document, then, he was en titled to say; that there appeared a manly anti vigorous protest against the interference of the Allied Sovereigns. • There was another and a most important paper to the sante effect, though . it wits not in die 'papers immediately before the House. He called upon the' House to remember the principles laid down in the answer of the late Marquis of Londonderry to the Circular issued by the Allied Sovereigns after the conferences of Trop pau, in 1821. It had been said by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, that the paper he alluded to conveyed the bit terest sarcasm upon the conduct of the Alliance. He thought that description went toe) far; but it was too much now to come forward and say that it contained no protest against the interference in the internal concerns of independent States.— Therefore, when the Duke of Wellington referred to that pro» test, no one was entitled to say that they had kept principles out of' sight, and contented themselves with making represene Wiens of interest, and a mere mild deprecation of attack upon Spain. Ilut one main object on which they had a right to rely, am! one much more important than any words they could have used, was the effect to be expected from the separation of sentiments on so momentous a question among the Allied Powers. I fany one thing could more radically operate upon their minds titan another, to prevent them front engaging in the War, it would be their reluctance to show to the world that such differ• ence existed. It would not be necessary for him to go through the various details of criticism, to which chnicnt parts of these tiegoefatinns had' been subjected:, The Honourable Member who moved the Address said, that the Government would have succeeded at Verona, if, they hati taken his course. Now the lion. illoinher: for 'Westminster told theist that Ministers did succeed .at Verona. He wee there, and heard the opinions of all classes expressed, and the cOmplaints of certain Gentleinen who lied come tdl. the Way, from the Great s _Wall of China into the luxurious climate of Italy, for nulling. And the lion.. Member fer Westminstra. was right;—they did succeed at Ve rona.—(llear !)-,=They succeeded as persnading the Allied So vereigns not to Make the quarrel ilk European Cause, belt to 11sase'iretitteely araquestien betweea l'itinee and Spain. This was a very important object to gain ; auld how were they to ob tain it ? By reisionstranceor violence ? He denied. that they had used no toneef rettionstrimce in the negociations.,,They put the queetiori upon expediency and uvoleprinciple ; but they also en deavoured to convince the other powers that it was not to their interest to take part in the interference. And'whin the seat of negociation had been removetato Paris by those means, they flattered themselves that the Name course US had been succees f u at Verona would have succeeded elsewhere. But it seemed they:had cothibitted a great eraor, When the 'found they could not :succeed altogether in averting the interference with Spain, in not retiring from the negociations; and declaring they would have nothing more to do with them; He admitted it to be a very natural question to put,.whether they shoUld pirsue that course, or whether by continuing in conference they might not attempt to reconcile the two parties, between whom the quesa tion had resolved itself. If there were a chance of doing so by their good offices or their mediation—call it what they would— it was their bounden duty to make the effort. It was a duty they owed to this country, as well as to the independence of Spain, and to .the interests of France also. For he would contend that they were bound not to overlook the fair inte rests of France. It was a greet object for us to maintain a Constitutional Monarchy in that country. Ile lied nothing to do with the internal policy of such a Government, nor with any cinestions between it and the people of France,, which were confined within its territory. The internal acts of that Government might be what they had been described in that House, and they could not perhaps be vindicated. But to maintain something like a free and Con stitutional GovernMent in France, with the present reign ing family at its head •if practicable, was no little object of interest to this country. Ile did not Mean to say that the Bourbon family had not always been jealous of this country and opposed to it. They bad been, and very probably would be again. Yet that was not a reason why they should suffer a country in the situation and circumstances of France to remain in a constant state of internal civil dissentions .to the danger and disturbance of surrounding states. With regard to the recommendations which they had thought it right to make to the Spanish Government on the subject of the Constitution, the House were bound to keep in view the true circumstances. of that part of the case. When this Government was asked by Spain for its interference, they were bound to use their good 'offices, anti how were they to proceed but by using what the Spanish Government called the pen of conciliation. France was also desirous that our good offices might be exercised suc cessfully to prevent war from breaking out. lie believed, whatever might be said to the contrary, that the French Mi nisters were not , so desirous of war as they had been repre sented. But this Government were reproached with having advised Spain to make alterations in her Institutions under the menaces ' which France had held out. And he was ready to admit, that if they had not been asked by Spain to give her advice and assistance, they should have had no right to offer any such recommendation. But when the two powers stood committed as they did,' upon principles the most opposite that could possibly be conceived, it was indispensable that some concession should be made on both sides. lf, the fore, the first step had been taken by Spain, we should have had grounds for calling upon France to follow the example and abandon some of the points to which Spain objected. Where then was the wrong of her to give way in some thing for the accomplishment of these pacific intentions. And ifa Spain could have been induced to accede to the pro. i posals made to her, it did not appear to him that she would have been making any sacrifice of her dignity, or submit ting to the least violation of her honour and independence. Because, be it remembered, they had never asked Spain to make any, the slightest concession, upon .the principles laid down by France. On the contrary, they had told the French Government that if they recommended any alterations to Spain, they would never suffer her to acquiesce in that prio a ciple laid down in the King of France's Speech, which made all free Constitutions so much waste paper unless comieg from the, mouth of a Sovereign. A mostmonstrous proposition it wee--((%heers)—and certainly such a one as had been may said to strike at the root of the British Constitution. It was then charged upon them as a fault, that they had suggested a different meaning and construction to this objectionable pas sageof the Speech. Now, if it were proper for them to inter fere with the object of conciliation at all, it was certainly pro per that they should adopt such means of conciliating those to whom such doctrines were supposed to be addressed. It was next said that this Government had been grossly deceived by thou) with whom they had been negociating in these aflairs.— He confessed that they had been somewhat surprised at the con. duct of the French Government.—( Hear !)--They were surprieed because the decisions of the French Government were repeatedly altered ; and he believed that that Government did change its intentions front clay to day: --(Hear !)—They could not, there fore, he prepared for such changes of opinion as they occurred, and thus their endeavours and wishes were in some, measure frustrated. Upon the whole view of the case, convinced as be wax, that neutrality from the first was the right and honourable line of conduct for them to pursue—convinced, as he was, that no other course of policy would have produced any other effect; and thoroughly convinced, as he was, that such was the feeling of the people of this country, he was sure the !louse would reject the motion, and not consign the Government to its cen sure, because, after a long and anxious endeavour to discharge their duty by upholding the honour and dignity of the country, and to maintain the peace of the world, they had unavoidably failed in securinja the latter object. —(Cheers.) Sir J. MACh.INTOSII said, that he ruse under tile appre. !tension of not having bodily strength to subm it t o the louse the observations which pressed upon him, as relating to this momentous question. Ile therefore looked for more of the In. dulgence of the House titan usual, although he had at all times reason to thank them for a very large share. Though he did not dispatches which had been laid before the House, which had been made of them, able ouasger,e nore in in the tile dispatches as it was, he could not refrain from congratulating the house of Commons upon that concurrence of opinion which pervaded all sides and all parties, in reprobation of the atrocious and unprincipled aggression of France ttpon the unoffentling peo ple of Spain..—Wheers.)—The Honourable and Learned Gen tleman then eulogized the sentiments expressed by the Mem hers for Yorkshire, London, and Brauiber, as regarding the conduct of France, and strongly condemned the use of feeble language and measured terms when men had to speak of acts like those upon which the House had been 'called on to de liberate. It was to the degradation of this country, that stronger language had not been used to the Allied Sovereigns, in remonstrating against the unprincipled acts w hich had been meditated, and were now attempted to be carried into execu tion. Ile was shocked to -see the document, which bore a name so enlightened as that of the Right Honourable Gentle man, speaking of an atrocious violation of the independence of nations, as .‘ a ssumption of unnecessary responsibility." -- It was the same as to declare that picking a pocket was a slight error of judgment, and that - to comma murder in the present state of the laws or England, was to assume an unplea sant. aesponsibility.—(A laugh.)—This language might do for the drawing-rooms of Vienna, but it - was not fitting for the ears of the plain rustic Esquires, and the homely Burgesses, who represented the people in that House.—(A hoped they would contrive to retain that plainness and home liness, together with the indignation-which those feelings anti manners would imply, at such language as .Ministers hail thought proper to use upon .such an occasion. The real question now for the House to consider, as it had been w 11 put by, the and Learned Member for Lincoln, was t o, what was to be done by the country now, but what Ministers ought to have done in February anti March. The pretended suppoiters of peace had used so many fallacious arguments in the course of their speeches, that, as die real friends of peace, be thought it necessary to expose their weakness and contradiction:— The first said they would not assist Spain because she was divided ; and then, to support *some other views of tile ques tion, they maintained that our assistance was unnecessary, because Spain could repel the aggression herself; and that the success of France was impossible. Ilow this was to be reconciled, be would leave it for them to expbtin. It was said also that we were never to interfere where there was a divided country. He should like to know in what part of our history this doctrine was to be found ? Was it in the interference of Elizabeth in the war in Flanders ? The next objection was, that our intrrfererice would melee the war popular in France. 0 ! wise anti magnanimous Charles the Second ! why did he go to war in the Netherlands to make the war po pular 'in e Spain ? Why did Godolphin and Marlborough de feat the ninnies and wound and humble the *e of 1 rance, and yet be so short-sighted as not to see that they were making the war popular ? Those who supported the conduct of Go vernment to the course they had taken, argued the question as. if there was no course between the feeble and degrading aans antage which had been Used, and that of violence and a decla ration of war. The Hight lion. Cheneollor of the Exchequer had said that the Note of the late Marquis of Londonderry, in answer to the circular of the Allies, contained a strong protest, and that to refer to that was sufficient. In this part of the question there was something quite ludicrous ; for, in propor tion The first conintonication to as the necessity for firmness increased, and the objectum able nets became stronger our language grew weak anti feeble. the Alliee was a dissuasive ikom • , St projected ad, and that he would allow was wen - rea soned, and pretty strongly expressed.. But when these acts came to be carried into effect, our only remonstrance was an obscure allusion to the former document. But io point of Fi . , , , t , , e t r t Ars A , p n r i o e t s cs . treated with neglect and insult. excep don, but - upon their own principle. Yet after this we were to occupied tilad'len Italy, it was not upon our ay one word, either in remonstrance,' or as a ileviaration of iittend a Congress' of ,he same Sovereigns at Verona, andnot principles. It was said that this Government did not know the object of the Congress of Verona to be the discussion of the attair*.tatfinain. , T, @n oor negoeintor appOired there under, an affrOnt, tn not having- been informed of the object, and he," too, one of the most illustrious characters of the age. Yet, even after this, offended national pride was not enough to rouse therai front their insensibility. A considerable time ago he put tie that the negoeiadons would he conducted upon *question tobis Rightllonimrable Friend , in width be ex pressed abo the basis of strict national independence, the maintenance of the balance of power, the faith of treaties, and with an adher ence to the practice of the' best simes.of our history. It now appeared that' to abstain , from violating ; the independence of nations was all that had been done, and that the balance of power had never' been mentioned or thought of. lie could. not argue with any one who would say that the occupation of Spain IV France would not destroy the Wants: of power in Europe. were under one Governinentait could , non,affect the interests With those i tt blime politicians, who said, thataif All Europe of this country, he held nothing ii? common. Ilis old habits of' thinking retained him 'far' within - That point of 'refined phi losophy. The Honourable' Member for Corte Castle had adopted this proposition, and he could not help admiring the youthful ardour and vigour with which he embraced every paradox which fell into his hands. Notwithstanding the Philosophers of Corte Castle, however; :he contended• that the balance of power was necessary to be preserved, anti that it would be most effectually destroyed if France obtained possession of Spain. When he asked his questions of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he had said that he expressed , his hope that the conduct of this country would be similar to that followed in the best times of the country. To' see whether this was the , case let them look to the great alliance founded in time of King William, and afterwards supported by the great Statesmen and Generals who succeeded him. 17 p to the time of the acces sion of the Bourbons to the Throne of Spain, France had been the natural ally and protector of the kingdom of Portugal. The rival Houses of Bourbon" and Austria were her protectors, and the Howse of Braganza reigned in peaceful security. —But as soon as the power of France became ascendant in Spain, she attacked Portugal to induce ' her to declare war against England ; and that on the acknowledged pretext that her situation in Europe demanded it. This was the first time, he believed, that ever a geographical cause of war was openly put forth. Three times was Porte gal attacked in this manner, and three times she resisted with an heroic fidelity perhaps not to be equalled, certainly never to be surpassed, in the annals of Europe. Now what was our conduct to our faithfal ally, when the time of her peril was come ? Was there any real assurance of her safety in the papers before the House ? He denied it, ;and he could demonstrete that there was none. In this part of their negociations, M M. De Chateau briand, and I. De Villele had shown considerable address. — The whole of their assurances with regard to Portugal only' referred to the time while the Army of Observation remained upon the frontier. The moment the army entered Spain, those assurances'held no longer. We had therefore done absolutely nothing for that friendly power which had been three times destroyed, or been upon the brink of destruction on our ac count. Thus it was in the land of superstition and ignor ance, that honour and fidelity were to be found ; and in the country of reason and liberty—falsehoodand dishonour. The moment France possessed the same power over the French Province of Spain, that 'moment would the sanie scene -be acted over again. Therefore, the only means which they had of preventing it, and of discharging the heavy debt vihich they owed to their ancient and most faithful ally was resistance to the attack upon Spain, The Hon. and beamed Member then - alluded to 'a confidential letter of Lord North's of which he had Obtained a copy, relative to a plotfor land ing a French force in Ireland at the time when the Rreneh and Spanish fleets entered the Channel, 'to establish the Duke de Fitz-James, a descendant of the Stuarts, in the. govern ment of that country. He concluded 'by expressing his warm ' hopes for the personal safety ,of King Ferdinand. Next to his own King, theta Was not another whom he looked to with so much anxiety. Ile wished him to live unharmed through the perils of the country, that his safety might go down to future a n exist. c o t f s i l l idl Spani she gTve lilier t n y a tio and " . h N a ‘ p ' i l i ' in t l e l s el s to th g e en ir ages as the eternal monument o f t h e mo d erat i on an d forbear eCn r o a n ti s o t n it s u y ti e c ru s n h h oti orn ld t or whether it should fail, it would at least have the glory of setting an example worthy of the greateat people that ever lived upon the face of the world. In the midst of their glorious struggle they had been opposed by fraud, treachery, and de ceit; whilst to their enemies they had been merciful—for4iving • almost to blindnees.—(Great cheering !)—lle should say that he almest envied the illustrious Arguelles in his sufferings in the cause of his country and of freedom ; he was sure he en vied him in his talents and his eloquence • but most of all lie envied him in that exalted feeling which led him to treat with forbearance, with respect, and even with delicacy,—that &me reign who had sent him to toil as * private soldier in a mice. 'Able fort, beneath the bu ing sun Of Africa.—(Loud cheering.) Mr. BAN KES exi ' 1. . e „ Mr. Secretary PE ' .4 said, that standing as he did in the situation of a party, to whom the question before the House c a A nic rt i e e r ty, the to admirable adval was a criminatory revolution, he felt that eager, and, he trusted, laudable lce .leis anrdunanswerable lea o f not giiiltydteofentheee hittge. of his Right Honourable Friend, the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, he . should, however, be well content to leave the question in the hands of the 1-louse. That defence ' he must say, had not been shaken or touched by th e sp eec h o f the Hon. and Learned Gentleman whd had just sat down. He must take leave to examine the .nature of that speech ; anti with the ex ception of five minutes, during which the Hon. and Learned. Gentleman contended that a more dignified course of remon strance should have been taken. lUe would ask the House, whether the whole argument adyanced was not in favour of a declaration of war ?—(Hear, hear !)--It appeared that an fon. and Learned Gentleman was willing to support the motion whether the question turned on going to war or not. Did the honour and interest of the country require war ? He should an swer—No,, • Did the voice of the people of England require war, ?-L(llear, hear !)—No. Did the Spaniards require this country to go to war ? Ile answered—No. If neither honour, interest, nor treaties required war, was it competent to criminate the Government on such grounds ? It really was too much to hear an lion. and Learned Gentleman blame the speech of his lion. Friend, the Member for Corfe Castle. lI is Hon. Friend had not asked, whether the balance of power would be increased by the aggression of France on Spain, but whether the balance of power would be deranged by any increase to the power of France. He might ask any man to answer by common calm don, whether it was probable France would succeed in the war ? Spain was divided in eleven parts, and it appeared ten millions were against the present invasion of France, and only one million for it. Was it possible France could maintain Hu ntley occupation of the Peninsula ? , Detested by ten millions, was it possible, even with the occupation of Cadiz, Ferrol, and Corunna, France could snake her conquest secure ? The , Honourable and Learneil Gentleman had appealed to the con duct of Queen Elizabeth,. as something upon which the Minis ters of the present day were to be criminated. Why did Eli zabeth interfere in the dissentions of foreign countries? "Why did Elizabeth lend her assistance to tie Flemings P Not upon any abstract principles_, but become it was the interest of England to oppose Spain. They had been told Elizabeth armed against despotism, and that she derived advansage from the opposition she offered to despots. No such thing...- Queen : Elizabeth was much too cautious, much too - wise, to embark her country in a war or principle.. It was strictly the interest of the country to engage in a war againet Phillip the Second. It was not until the recall of the Duke of Alva; not until eighteen thousand subjects of', Spain in the Low Countries had been brought to the scallithl : not until the appointment of Don John of Austria—that Queen Elizabeth advanced a loan of 20,0001., and sent an army to Flanders. She took as a security three towns in the Low Countries. It was, in short, the interests of England, and nothing but that interest, which induced her to oppose Spain. T4ie same influence might be traced to the proceedings which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had cited in the reigns of William and Anne. It had , also been urged that because we opposed the invasion of Spain by Buonaparte, the country was called upon at the present day to oppose France. lie might ask whether the circumstances were similar to those in the time of Buonaparte, when 60,000 men were ready to take possession of that money. Spain was now a divided country, and France would . find the greatest difil. culty in promoting her views. Could the Hon. and Learned' Gentleman thew there was any danger to Portugal, which made it necessary to go to war. He maintained there was no reason existing at that time for war on account of Portugal. —lf Pornigal was attacked, this country would be ready to discharge her obligation. France had received assurances that England would respect the obligation, and if she commenced an attack, Parliament and the country would most Zealously enable his Majesty to discharge the obligation. He could not but consider time course of debate and the impeathment of Go. vernrnent most extraordinary. One of the most important questione had been submitted for discussion, namely, whether the policy this country maintained 404 the rt sgpcuttions was calculated to meet the interest of the country, He might ask whether. the peace of Europe was the interest of England ? And secondly, if the peace of Europe was disturbed, whether it was not our interest to preserve the peace of England ? Those ques tions rnnst be answered in the affirmative, and consenuentlY it ,was desirable to maintain a madiatoriaPposition, which might provide some secprity against die meditated attack of France on Spain. The single question on which the supporters of the motion trusted, was one of degree; namely, whether or no the tone of the Minister during the negociation was too submissive.. The lion: Member for Westmjneter had declared himself an `advocate for a war of libeety against despotism. Ile for one _should deplore the hour when England ever enters into such-. 7aver. At the same time he protested as much as any man, , could, agaipst the doctrine of the holy Alliance to correct the., internahaffaies of foreign nations. He had, certainly suppertedt 'different ,,, totiibill4:eSecretary Petiylrdetail.beeluoPelltaselrnihis i b l f ei l ii r t i sgp o ci t s :o p : o f i s r4 t e :i t i h a u t t c decl ar ers ' o . am fi i a t . tiFh procee di ngs more necessary r l ec r h a ei res p e ct w N I , t'r'an ce a (nlfli Minister. l e a en a it i b i i o d .o l a t invaded 3 : p n lc i s i pia l i d ie tkep. d i e W a e ct .rit 4 : l ; S iih nt ieo l ta p a l i t a ne i tt eP e l tatu a S .ir r lP h lbNite.e f er i n t rani t : s e ep l i T nne l if il lite l r ii : of Austria and other powers in eh° affairs oft Naples was jut. titled.drawing Il a a n c i erta nfer i: n ly ee del fron iveret t thlatthaotpopiniionino,nsai, a n i it did appear to him that Austria was justified. The French - 31inuter, i tc i li o atu t ios s e e n e .of atLlTZ l e st i l l atii t do j : tis ai t ni i i fi oN ita wft tion i:lesgh in atn t dda he tiyi i ntent of England considered Austria justified in her attack. on . Naples, .they must also think France right in her attack on Spain. To that inkrente he mold • not iteectLe Ile could , different. In Naples they called on the King fur aCo The mob attacked the King in his palace, and said the) would have it in twenty-four hours. The object of that revolution was the derangement of all Ital, and Austria was justified in garding• aggression se revolutionforconsideration. (' r i tri ranee. Spainpain r t r y ! I re against revolution there, as bearing the diameter of the revolution in. Naples, and he had no hesitation in declaring that the to , vision of Spain was an act of aggression on the pert °€' France.—(Hear, hear, heath—An Honourable 31enther leid declared himself the advocate for war of a peculiar character. — The Honourable 31ember could not have a land war, but re a Naval war. The Hon. Member though t the hulks ships we liable todecay in ordinary.; and if they were sent to sea, the country would not be much the itisevi Ile was not dieposed to differ with the lion. Gentleman an ,to.the.. expellee of sueli a. war ; but some difficulty would arise anaren 3 d in7 . France to keep up a Naval war. What would the Honourable Gentle man gain by a maritime war? What could be done in aid _f Spain by a maritime war ? What could . he the re.sult of such a war ? The Honourable Member thought they might sue:. eeed in the capture oF Martinique, get all the sugar, ita" war would be no,ntors: The Honourable and 'Leaned Gen! deman had- said Ministers might have told France that it , they attacked Spain they would have to 'nee the Puke ot Wellington on the arena ;. but the question nwas, w h e ther we weve pre par to carry. threat. ito execution. If war was oc. cesaary, the ed s country ought to g o to war; but to use threats without the intention to aupport , high 'language, woold ,Fnil e bring -upon the country contempt. In the courae of 11 ' negociations there were three distinct , features. The ConO!! at Verona, Lord Wellington's return to Paris, and the tip of the King, with the subsequent events. It was truly ear Di. the Hon. Member for Menthes,. that they ought to b vie m_ mind all the circumstance& under which the dispatches .roe written. Was it intended to• criminate the Governmenrt et; had abewn , through the whole of' the lang i trge the language in these dispatches? His Right lion. F i t .." age d to i. n:,' Allied Powers, that England consideredherself sepia. 7 from those Powers-. What was the language held at I e i rolli: o . M. Montmorency said iu his dispatch—" If England le d e ~t_ separated herielf from the Congress at Verona die meiriar _', l ` . contemplation for the amelioration of Spain would. have_Py ie ceetled." That was the admission of France— what,n e the opinion of Spain ? The dispatch of 31. San 3liguei 1 na,.., a. .... 12th of danuar,"comPlained of the part taken bY Fag,.., she He said, " Will England not give effect to the Prerinofithe part professes ?" At that moment Spain was not awa-- •was net taken by England. The complaint wset, that Sshe did. apprized of the part England had taken, but when_ on kisow..the pait taken. by. England, was she diseatisfireolsrure or, the 24th of December,.,M. San Migu e l said, " a \Vie it also call . England, and satisfied with her. pet . tee." lit ln - g ' & b e efed the attention of the House anthe epmion of Spai l l, LI , _ b , by San 11iguel, as to the mediatory course to t_ ; K_T in ri: England. 1 t was this:---" There is certainly nothing r i_'4 3 t sent to induce us to ask for such mediation' hut wetaienaly sea, surrounded by dangers, and we Ina): want geein. hand." There was no - proof of the dissatisfaction , oh m a - ..., e . An Hun. Gentleman had alluded to crooked and strittlf_h q i u ho but he was ready to contend that. his Itight linth„er,!: li ca me a p_referred a rightof taking the course win.e c i! .. 1 ._. - i l i . e n B au riti mot ah 3 1 herar:tenr:ena.v_oitliinegart:>_e twialeesotreirn. danger the; lots:rate of the country. His Right i into ia,,.• weal& carry houte at the end of the debate the centuro._tion"'of faction of having performed his duty, and the anO.,,, n _ i ',, t een adverted to the- mediation, apd obseryedd desire „, me diate in peered in that transaction, but a frir d a l Y she e g, what was to be a manner advan!ageous to Spltill• l' e r ' • conflicts of the last twenty-cola t right, on a that gained by agreeing to theartotion ? W 116 1 nion that the non on which Ee had formed its deciiive opi _ c t e „ ads !, isces,cr,ewathatiryn_7olmll ii:ettopti., House of Common,, should condemn the Isolicy of 11 t.,,,, t desirable. .Aftet i,_it Ministers. Strict neutrality had b ee n mos- s$ the hest course for this country, whilst it e° l- ` - of the interests. honour. The Government luul acted in stlPPor t . - . n su b m itted of the country, and notwithstanding the P r°l*mti o ° , the ail l°- by the lion. Gentleman, they would doubtless en.l ) . hation of the nationandpublic confitleece. , Sir Y. IJUIIDET'I' agreed with the 1g to ta ke aa' demon who had just sat down, that intoorder.__ . hies t old rest view of the luestion it was better l .o o lt 17 .fac w t i on toad circumstances.. He could not but express 1 ! 1 $ '%, ti ggress w the genets' unanimity of sentiment respecting • ' ' able Gentle coFrilltinnewe.ot on l I e of France wris not broken by the Riht honour.oonourabir man. It had occurred Os him that the Rightt conduct of years striicti tillecuptrr:lsietryedw, oil Secretary might have retained the opinion on th ' ro pecting France which wroi expressed on a former dot_ A a t letot, Austria and tiagles. It was a satisfaction to ir c u n ouot 0, a general feeling in that House on the acTOCIOII lan ~,a t it was not fit to descend to verbal crilicism on the Papers.w After ought to be considered ou a far store general andvte the pa there had been so much discussion on tbe subject. ~, ~,,,mina for t at he lm p i h t ras tetl eo w it i ) t g lt y t . he Right lion. Gentle!' lfitcy pers had been so ably examined, there . wits i'tu c an e. ; ( ho OP; the minion. had made a sound argument; and after whole ag o. been said, it would ill. become him to go over the the top n , Ile should confine himself to a feR , obseriations, °,l set doir,a' of the Riht Honoureble Gentleman who ha d ' li e . t the Iligil On that which took place at Verona, be should Me w, . in that Honourable Gentleman in linaine, and say there, f a Mji)l: transaetion• more than enough to call on the hes" of askEd ster the censure of that House. 'The seer was whether the King of England wotild withdrair his f r out horitY• and give up to France the weight 'of her mor to ore so They asked him what effectual support' he w° ,hise rt" e " France in- the execution of her measures. If 'fi s h 0 11 `" The lion. Gentler 0 Lions had been answered, as it became an rang the feel.• ster to answer, the language would have roa r ', „ o eli IW'; ings of indignation entertained by the country up. .., ak , wa r l'asitionia He knew not whether it was tt:oriusters the result,, but it certainly was not the du ty of r no thing c° , abandon the high spirit of the country. War Illt,h i ,huat i eel . do with the question. It might have been Sitid 1 4 t a n Otr i * ' l can give consent to a proposition of this sort. eeetbtatealZt ble England' can &elte her moral support to 'stich 6 "' loo t s upPo s i of aggression, and so far from her deriving soy " . so oter . from England, the will feel herself bound to till ,rocteatngi weight into the other srale. There was a line. 7 P o d rrio r , g o 'short of war, which would have saved the dig"' Y the s tate l ot Character of the country from being ptit inn .. we l', which it then stood.' 'They should have gaol line of lie% take- these steps without transgressing the 6trict hil' t i° trality which may are tleterraiued on this odious purls; we sat of o at Much lent counteract your design'' , n",,,ditwieirea ou Ambassador. We will do all that is rota breach I __ oa ts . . 0 Such a line of proceeding would have been t.i!!! . 0 1; a e fer 4 } :_ e ' t with the character of England. It would have hc!. the Ar i.r, , _, 4 the detestable proicet of France, more forcible trial,' a hint that of the J)uke of IVellington, which only convsuosillot, France Was taking on herself unneceasari. r a t tie s of dour, The Papers niade the Ministers app!fir antic r, becat ilic po tion injustice, and seducers of Spa.rosh honouri witho ot a v ie made propositions which Spain Could not giv ( n t a_l' e sea in 0 '143 render. of honour. It was an attempt to in httf.4 e t here_ m , up her Constitution, not for any Advantage, would tho'sirt-p. no proof that the Cabinet of t he Tuileries _ . „,, st m to , _ . . re (icy. 'lle English mediator never gave them saj e %,`,7 o - old s'c e u e f nose that if Spain wave up her Constitution, 1 ,11 01)11 also herself against the danger which threatened bor. _ bl inder , 11 , Wellington might see well in the field, but he was was there Wellington might see well in the field, but •t,l" ijtl' ":' is mole to the faults of those he called his friello i s i when he came back to the Throne, muniereon,i_let,„ a oy__!'„,,, nothing iiiiethwehcoo ndtilauge:.aocefdlieriistilinnaontidiert,hbeeSetrovyent,.l,o,ls:freint4cilieetrilrei:y was quite impossible not to see there was cleave m e in! . the ing with that party. It was difficult to 14 . V 1 7.:„ ha d 1 , , . po t of ictiolme pecillueent"andhadnoacttthellewtilthrpesg°°doffatiitli:ll-I":"ci'llithriegliac.r.'l:it"tv.-e'r have been greater enemies to the Spentrai _ invo Je d !irt„,,, was in more danger than when the itiot!Trl*gurope rnlf,B If the act of atrocity could succeed, e'rhleiland heooto to op pis All would be lost, anti .ti , g , " A wildernees again — ~, inha bitants.' olentitj Peopled by wolves --its 01 _ goa d, so . 1 _ ou t Never was the independence of Europa T on of spell ;_," b i e to, If France should succeed in the stittitte i l no t be po 1 " thiS couetty remain in parsec ? A '•