The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES. (YESTERDAY.) HOUSE OF LORDS. ',C,ROT2I' T. 2.ONTIOIIT 1117 D "701ZIL (A1L5T271727 COUNTIES.) The Committee met this day at eleven o'clock, the Earl of Love lace, chairman. air. Lane, a trafllc-taker, was called to speak to the comparative amount of traffic of the Eastern Counties and the London and York lines. Mr. Pl.arrT objected to the Eastern Counties Company examining in detail on the to attic evidence, and the Committee having curtailed that portion of the case for the London and York, A long discussion then sprung up on this objection, after which the room was cleared. After a lengthened consultation the parties were called in, when the following decision was given by the Chairmen : The Committee resolved not to hear further evidence as to the traffic, on the ground that the tables given in on both sides showed very similar results in some of their component items, and that the dis trict traversed by both the competing lines, with their respective branches and with the transverse railways which communicated with them, will constitute a sufficient revenue for either project. The ease was thenproceeded with in accordance with this decision. HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP 11, Thin Committee met to-day at the trival hour, Viscouut Morpeth in the chair. C °ENV/AMA, The CHAIRMAN read a communication, which he said he understood to have been sent by the Admiralty to the parties to thisund which was to the effect, that ' a meeting of the Admiralty would be held to day, and that they would be able after that meeting to give their decision as to the cresaing of the Clyde. It was, the re f ore, pro posed by the Chairman th at this Lill should further stand over till th e mee ting being over, the decision of - .lle Admiralty sho u ld b ecome known. They certainly could go on with the proposed alternative line, but as that line would b . e opposed by the W est of Scotland J u nction, it would not be wort h while to go into it unless it appeared certain that the Admiralty would refuse their consent to the crossing of the Clyde. This was assented to, and after some discussion as to which case should now be proceeded with, the case for the GLASGOW SOUTHERN TERIVCINAL wan opened by Mr. EILDTAZD. The Learned Counsel said that this line was projected by the proprietors of the Glasgow. liarrhead, and NeiLston Direct Railway, who obtained their Bill last session. By that Bill they had proposed to cross the Glasgow and Paisley Canal upon a swivel bridge and on a level, but, In consequence of the op position of the Canal Company, a clause was inserted by which the parties were compelled to cross the canal upon a fixed bridge, giving nine feet clear headway. The necessary alterations of level resulting from this clause would require a deviation beyond the limits. Mr. Dixon, the owner of property through which the Barrhead line would pass, had agreed to give his consent to the extra deviation, on condition of his receiving 3,0001. from the company ; but not otherwise. In consequence of this de mand the company had lot their line unfinished, and had made use of the goods station of the Greenock Company as a terminus ;having ne terminus of their own. ICy this .I',Ul they proposed to make a line from the Barrheact It.iiiway, near Titwood, to the Caledonian Railway, which was, in fact, the same concern with this, an agreemert ;; an amaLomation having been made. By this means they would have a communication with a station at their own disroettl. , • Mr. Graham, the secrets!y to the Darrlicad Company, gave evi dence in support of Mr. liildyard's ?tatement, 1.:1,1 Mr. Robson, the engineer to the hue, gave the usual engineering evidence. The length of the lind is one, mile, ow furlong, and five chains. Thy; steepest gradient was 1 in and the sharpest curve had a radius of six furlong. The estimate was 531,C001. Is. tid. _ _ Several oilier witnesses were called, and cross-examined by Mr. Hot ,- ,: on the part of Mr. Dixon, who petitions against the 8;11, u, the ground that it would do great injury to iron works on his i:roperty The Learned Counsel set up two hn,,s, either of which would all the injury to prop,rty, hut impracticable, 01 1( head Act, an, Committee r' jested both as - ,Eition to a clause to the Larr lie:it of where it wou; Mr. Hors %, deuce had n.;_, The prea , ' The i2oheil 01.4.5 EZ. 0 ViT, P.A. - (POZ,LO _61211Y, .S.IVD GI:LE .1, IVO r; X aOl 11.17 23 Zit II MT ) • The elaus mil the Bill CALZDOZiriI27 Tzr.:47.z:zz 11 1V33 i~~ i i ~6~7iL ~~'d Aa) A mas3aga •alty ;heir to the crossing A Claus: was pany to make a , ca-.e of their o , taining t 1 time, in which c thry as originally The Cominitt ,, e to aaout a quamr-;, - ,sz Laving now dispo, i vf r the corn 11 make their ter wth s!,l cd ;a .4et , :!;;A• the Oat their 1;3 Jce 1. thrcO.y adj. I; II u;, (Continued 0r.7 Attenloon Edition of :, - Estm3ay.) C 11.7ACIDONIA ( ZE, AIZT:I3 COAT g mai T.1:7,1. - Z nltalqC ) This Bill, which izlst of t! !..,Totto, was thin Mr. Fonsmt staZ,l tne ; , roatutor this 331;1 was a ver: should not he of 3 ketch:A the detail= were generally tho Inquiry resisce';:g he submitted that tl:o agreed to 'with a clnuEe carrying out the Airdrie purl dine, and Mceiklands other prortion of the lii:e that as it wag not a coati,: mitten would allow it The CHAIRMAN' WaS ctlki seterae was disposed of by lir, de , cisic the Glasgow, Airdr'e, an.l. Itmiklqn eeive the evidence which the protam, Mr. Errington, the c Mr. WitrrltonE as to It shcr`, 1 aid l:!,3 speech I:avir:g I:rier!), W'' ich c ir Ti il'itt _,,, y bra, rs iron cv. Air. t to tic [My fn ilway, the Com r:e If , rti.,n of the irnittce i thpv 4. IT '• • Mr. Kfrg, Inanager Cartsherrit., the extc t this bnzneh, Mr. lIILDYARD, Q.C., The room was thcil On our re-admission, The CHAT :ULAN stated preamble of the Bill, so far a;; it portico, was not proved. The Committee adjouraed at f! .;;; an-,1 t favour of would. re- mined by leis departn)ent. A - ny, :Fad Mr. Bahl, cf t~ ~. 7~ cufttee. tuld w.?ei,lel that the t o the 2..ir+Lie Coaticidge ics, , A till one t GROUP XIII. c-luorrow; This Committee met to-day at the usual hour, Sir William Clay In the chair, when the case was resumed on behalf of the cAzzaDoaaaza (MATCGT.SOIaiI 21=11.NC11); and in opposition to the case of the promotevs of the NOZTII (C nmaslor. EXTENSION). Mr. Collister, civil engineer, eras recalled and examined. 113 said there were one or two mints which he had not explained on Tues day. One was that he lied not viided to the estimate of the North British scheme the expente ortiie appU , :.tion to Parliament for their Bill (30,0001.), which would mike the total estimate 550,000/., in stead of 66.0,0001., as st.,ted by them. The other point was in re ference to their entering the Carlisle station. The North British proposed to use the ;ante station as the other lines that converged at Carlisle—the Lamas! of the former line wal of eigiAt ieet, whereit of two feet. Besjeg, and Carlisle, the Maryport, &e. The level fi'erent in level to the others, to the extent the Parliamentary deviation only admitted ere wal n t room for more than the tour' companies that i. r. and tlisre was uut land scheduled to make up the differ. LIDDELL - w!re no lines of railway Cross-eicaminc. in Carlisle at prey was a branch of ?be 3t:tr. British line up to Crown-s Lancaster and Carlisle lin( British scheme had sehedu! , a junction. The difference street. The Lancaster and Car tortil of Crown-stteet. Ito wag e level as the case' with the Int aware thet the North d lan i at Crwn-street, in 0 the lev S toot rose from Cro' at eorough- street to Borough-street, which it crossed • at It feet elevation ; whergag the North British crossed at an elevation of only 10 feet, according to the plans. He was aware that the land for the joint station was between Crown -street and Borough-street. If land in that position was obtalsed, and the North British sanctioned to join the Maryport line, then the jrutcticu would take place by the North British with a gradient of lin 270. That was an ob jectionable gradient at such a position. Though there wis a station at the place of junction, still it would be a through traffic that would pass along there, and therefore the gradient was objectionable. Sup posing the North British :ine to be elevated two feet. in crossing Borough-street, that weal flatten the gradient all along to about I in 600. The Caledonian, in its approach to Carlisle, went up on a gradient ot'l In 110, arct again descended on a gradient of I in 420. There was not much ohjc^tion to this, as the descending gradient beim', so slight, It overcan i the effect of the ascending gradient. The Cusiastaza admitted that ihey need not pursus the point fur- ther, as it did not appear from tl ous engineering difficulty. It was more a q engineering. Witness—He had set down the expenses of the Caledonian appli cation to Parliament at 40,0001., of this about 8,000/. was set down for the Langhoha branch. lie d. at there was any geri ition of property than now flu her it W:LS ❑sual to add such expenses to the estimates c did it. He was not aware that the surveyors of the North British were iMerfered with by the order] of the Duke of Buccleuch as weli as the Caledonian surveyor!. The Caledonian line was the first he had been engaged on. The works were not lett); competition, but they were let before the Passing of the gill; conditional on its enactment. He thought the system of public competition .decidedly objectionable, as they mild get works done that way at any price. He knew that Mr. Biller had had extensive experience• in making railways in Scotland. Mr. Miller had constructed large works last year on the Edinburgh and Glasgow Rail6wi,bu but In that he had made a tunnel which he esti mated at mate of the ttina r which cost i,5007. The original esti \jag for a single line of rails, and It Was made for e a the difference. The base 9 0 a f ble, but that ought not 20 make yes heit embankment he calculated at ten yards breadth. The sloset down at one to one.half. Mr. Millerpricmalcuolfatecdutttihneg b h r e ead se t t h at the base to be thirty-two, feet. The at 3s. a yard for whinatene rock, and ordinary earth is. downl ;, red sandstone la. lid. a yard. He estimated tlic_q is u l a_n . t ‘ ii) ... o e f cutting to be nearly the 1 same as that furnished .b.r thecoj a a t u u t t it r y ; but the great dire, ence between them was in ofem d baument, which Ohe made 717,000 hl.: feet more, o n e in the the various works. With regard to the tunnel, he T' e e s e tim se a t te d d o it to wn be 501. a yard. The breaclth of the tunnel he represented to be 28 feet. The tunnel Mr. Blythe bad sec down at 321. a yard. He was not ,netructed a similar tunnel last year aware that Mr. Miller had e , through similar strata en i tie North British ice at 301. a yard. The CHAIRMAN did not see what the course of examination would end in but in a differe nce of op inion h. tweet' the two engineers, which the Committee weld have h weigh at the close. The differ ence at present between the too in regard to the estimates was he alwAys 230,0001. - Mr. LIDDELL said he MS w in the hands of the Con:2rlitt mntter where it was others wvuid agree to the same course. Mr. COCKBURN could net t They had Mr. Erring• i) do se. - ton and Mr. Locke, the engineers, to call ; or, if the Committee go thought fit, he was Willing th a t an independent engineer should down at the expense of the parties to survey the line, /tad report the result of the Committee. Mr. LIDDELL was quite wining to leave the matter as it was, and let the Committee decide between the estimates ; but if the other side were determined to go on in the course they named, they would have to follow up their cross-examination. After some conversation the cross-examination was resumed. The witness was then cross-examined with the object of showing that similar bridges as t'.nse set flown for the present scheme had been constructed in that part of the country, and on the North British line. He had s , t down the rails at 751bs. He was not aware that the weight they had cal,ulitted v - as 6. 1 1b5., and that that was tite weight of the r.tii tor the N. rth British line. The price err ton lie ealeilated at 117. las!, on another li]le. lie• examined— nate in thelr brid. could testily. Ile use' ealeulatect Caledonian line. 'kite v best conUlietors 31.`Kenzie. The lin:et!, two principal prop: Graham. The line went thron; t embankments. he roperty auto of Mr. .ti.;gs :izrt. Mr. Vignoles was examined with reference to the enginziering fea tures of this line. His evidence went to support the statements made by Mr. Locke on a previous occasion. Mr. Hawkshaw also gave evidence of a similar nature. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP I.Y. The Members met in Room 7 (Cloisters), at twelve o'clock, Lord 'Morsley in the chair. CALEDONIAN' (GLASGOW mmaxvinvz AND 13722131 CBES). - - - - Mr. Locke, a a thinly Populist+•d jultify it, uric, it Edinburgh t ere the throng ?h tratrre, the Calc ttongh if ACCOULMOLI: Formed thit would b The Caledo ti la n, With Langholn: lie hau of the NOT lister's er( cost what sanctioned their seheni, Edinburgh 11 course By 3 miles ea in operation. Tl Carlisle, by favour of tile set he two bet ter on the .„,. case being 1 in 73 in the oti;;:r :Ming Only twvo uillesi and 4. halt; North 'ne wird the C .„.....„ v proposed, would accommoilat, Dover the estimates and seetioli ven3ion, toad ho had also gone over Mr. Cot 31 , 1 he perrerlly agmed that th for Whether I Le present line era; finish the whol e o f . _ - ly contracted for, I;ii ;rt..] there wa3 not _ _ were nit hAlt* in oc,wt-vcr, were Ingo., thor ; sevet - c,,L, in the otic 50. Thus, for the purpose of woad hays twc , directly ctau• Batt' peting lines. There would to to fililleulty, in his clainicn, in con: r.tsetiii.; the Cale,lo ,, isn Longhelm branch with the Canotie coal 'kids. The difference iroat Edinburgh to Carlisle between the Hawiek line mid the Caledonian was three miles in favlur of the .tirreer, !Jilt the gradients abtl curves of the Caledonian were Letter. Under all circumstance;, he fait v that, if both lines were constructed it would produce a ruinous competition, which woall end in a coalition. Witness also agreed with Mr. (;ulster as to the difficulty of junction at the Carlisle Central station. To Lit the North British in in the way they pro posed would destroy all the arrangements the ot,.er companies had made with reference to this station. Cross-examined--The station at Carlisle was rot yet formed, and by WV ring the levels of the lines proposed to meet in the stations, the junction might be effected. He believed the various lines met on the same level at Crown-street- He could not speak as to the amount of traffic between Carlisle and Edinburgh, and therefore he could not say what amount the llawick line would take from the Caledonian. He did not see any reason at present for a direct line from Laaghohn and.Carli,le, in order to save 2% miles. He lied no objection if the traffic was developed, and of such a character as to justify a shorter line, that this 2% miles should be saved. He thought that a little opposition was necessary, but it ought to be directed against lines that were already established, and upon proper data, which they had net here. With respect to the cuttings and the works, he took his information from Mr. Collister, but he had a knowledge of the prices himself. Mr. Miller might have taken cross sections as well as Mr. Collister, as it was not necessary to give them in the deposited plans. The plans and sections of Mr. Miller, as deposited, were such as he would have deposited himself. Mr. WOOD, civil engineer, said he wont over the Hawiek line, and also over the estimates of Mr. Collister. He considered the calculations he had made fair and reasonable. . . Cross-examined—He constructed the Carlisle and Newcastle Rail way. He was a director of that line at the time. He was also en gaged in the making of the Brandling Junction. He was a coal en gineer as well as a railway ore. Mr. Errington, civil engineer, gave evidence that he generally concurred with the estimates of Mr. Co/lister. From his experience of the works on the Lancaster and Carlisle, as well as on the Caledo nian, he considered that, according to the sections submitted, the works could never be constructed at the money. He had sur veyed the seuth of Scotland, under the Government Commissioners, and then it was considered that the traffic would not yield more than a fair return on 21 . 4 millions. Now, tor the lines constructing and proposed, there would be required about ten millions, requiring an annual revenue Cf 800,0004 In that estimate, he set down the work ing expenses at 7001. per mile, which was the minimum rate. Cross-exit/dna—The Caledonianscheme was not intended to grasp Edinburgh and Glasgow, but because it was considered the traffic of these cities, was necessary to make the scheme pay. He believed that cattle were now carried to a much greater extent than originally expected. He had had some connexion with the Perth and Inverness line, which went through a very difficult country. The proposal of that line was only admissable as a continuation of the great north mail road. He would individually never have proposed the line, nor should he Ill:e to have been a shareholder. The estimate of the Caledoniae originally was, he believed, 1,900,0001., bat he could not exactly say. The works, he believed, would cost 18,0001. or 19,0001. a mile. He could not, however, speak exactly as to the amount at that moment. Mr. Tight, the architect of the station at Carlisle, examined—The room at the station was very circumscribed, even for the four com panies that were arranged to occupy it, and he did not think a fifth could be accommodated without great difficulty. The area of the land on which the station was to be built was about 600 feet long by 400 feet broad. The station would be 2.50 feet by 200. Cross.examlued— The area ;of the station was four acres and a quarter, but that did not include the gas •works which the Company had bought, nor the land they had at Crown-street. The whole extent of the ground up to the House of Recovery was 1,000 feet, but the House of Recovery intruded in the space. He win ; not say whether that pi operty was scheduled. lie knew the Derby waif , u, and that a number of lines met i ;Jere. the passengers met and departed on the same sick. Re•ex pose of wcAks t:;:. 'rhos c, were purchaed for the pur uid 11,1 accommodate the 1 - • a s.. cropoz. , c(l, except by lengthening the platform. dicitor to :he Lancaster and Carlisle Company, de rion ground at Uarlisle was In that Company's ex at=ive pa, , ,sesslon ; and that in regard to the companies they had already taTanged with, and the convenience necessary to the public, they eeird not consent to another party coming In. sen7crs further potqA that the st Cross-examined—They had powers in their pct to take land along their line for stations to the extent of fifty acres, that was with the consent of the proprietors. The land for the .taboo they had ar ranged for. The oat - vanity was four or five acre.?, but they could not reach it without crossing Crown-street. They had not Parliamentary powers to cross that street, btit they had a Bill bcthre Parliament to meet that difficulty. iZe-examineti without Interieriog with vt: ho arm for the station could not be extended valilabl.3 propel ly,, i • f the Cale for till to-Icor This el d the e ian (2(:mpany - c o'clock, tc case on Lodi sides. CUOUL X[v ,bIW at merits cf the ,ul.l hour thi TZO)I!iIiC. when-coun6el w The .5, he ann,,s; .he Hastii Icei Conitr,ittee a T engineer (1 the line, a oa ttu Seuttt- I L w a much more cciarentent manner a the (Hie r, right out to ti 1 engiiws in ,vu to be. reltiovcd In order to nut OH to i nd re-examination c i:oacit,,,l at four o'clock till tllo Bth of GIZOITI' XVII AT:J-73 .SO T 0 - LT MAZTC:72',STER. 1"1' o 1? "Kim SOTI Mr. I :3 (in oar Afternoon Edition of .a - a, the paces to which a Jet to coltstruet which the be taken without their eon !, a nature: of the water, craft the manth ; during the stile to iio so. In crdinary sa so-called important ports they vi - ere unloaded by the evident when lie stated from 200 to 300 tons, timber spoken of being belonged to merchants of ~ea said as to the necessity of Sails •e (treat route than that which now n Company were now making tram- amisoury mai Yeovil line to the coal-pits in the vicinity of Faarno attd Weila, w bath coals would be obtained in Salts , fairy at Niel, a ton, viatiek wild take away the necessity of reettirina moat front aaiutliampton at the rate of 255. a tort. Then, again, the line C1'03,1 two truportant streets in Southampton on a level, which he considered was in itself a paramount otjeetion to , he Bill, as the gate.; would have to be opened a number of times in —tors,: of a day; and as a number of children were colt- Li streets, serious accidents could lie then drew attention to the abuses, ~ x i-tod en Gin Great Western Railway. In .:;lied that thataCempany charged 20s. per ton for ‘a ants from the quays of Southampton, to London; I; via +in Cowes, tor instance, sent a ton of goods to v wotild convey them to London for 10s. per ton, thus try on the traders of Southampton, and making au arrangenient wait the Dock Company, lee their mutual advantage, wh:elt Parliament, when they gave them their powers, never contemplated. In 181-1, a rnemerial, signed by the most important merchants of Southampton, and by Mr. White, one of the directors of the Great Western, wee presented to the Corporation of South ampton, setting forth that the railway did not afford sufficient facili ties, that great delays took place and unnecessary expenses incurred In the transmission of goods. The Company In conveying goods 20 miles rave a " rebate" tat IL per cent., fat 30 miles 10/. per cent., and fa: 40 and under 50, le/. per cent. ; but if they carried passentsra to Winehtleal, they charged as for a diFtailee of 40 miles ; but in the :C.11',0 of goods, thr.y elp.r;,ed only for 39 miles, b y w hi c h th e goods carried iost a rebate of V. per coat. Ott these grountliat Ka called upon the Commi , tec to reject the preamble of the Bill, dving so to state his anbooeht conviction, for he attended there without fee or reward, that if the preamble were passed it woela des.tv , y ~,, uthanipten as a port. ;i 7 tr. J. C Knell, who hail resided in Redbridge for the last thirty years, examined by Mr. Davis—The trade of RetihriCa e within the halt two years had much decreased. The depth of water at Red le Lige was from ten to twalve feet during spring' tines, and from five to six feet at " neap" tides. At Eling the titles were about the same depth. Thu proprietor of the quayS at these two places could make any charts lie thought proper for unloading a vessel. It often happened that the confers could not approach the quays, and that they were obliged to unload them in the river by the means oh barges. Cross-examined by Mr. TIATEIERTON —IT the railway were con structed, the sca-borne trade ,avtth Redbridge would, no doubt, in crease to a small extent. `_ r~ ~... , ..<.. ~, t !'y a t the Great Wcel , t ` c:c'sii(l; i el tiottally phi :tot 1,11 to which he to id , t, .s1(1 pruul of'tY:i9, Ii 11• A aL injt Re-e:Kaininert by 2i r. Davis —The proprietors of the quays were not compelled to aceorninotlate merchants. Goods sent by the Southampton and Dorchester line to the prc7ent station contiguous the docks, would ovoid the duce now charged at the Southampton quays, By the Committee—Redbridge was not a place in «hicii a large trade could bp centered, it ',vita merely a kind ot 4140 t for the supply of inland places. Although the 3lanehester and Southampton Rail way might injure Redbridge and Fling, it combined great public ad vantage& John Cooksey, a 7,rocer at Southampton, deposed that a great por tion of the business; had Leen transferred Irons the quays to the docks, and that the dues received at the pier had materially decreased. The town thus suffered great injury. do desire had been evinced on the part of the Great Western to reduce their fares until the Manchester and Southampton was projected. Since the present railway was made, he considered that the trade of the town had decreased. This, however, he attrilmtsd to the Inefficient communication at present afforded. In his, cross-examination he stated that the advantage afforded to those sending goods to the docks to be conveyed by the South Western, was not to promote the export trade, but to give a stimulus to the ctoeks. Mr. Davis applied to have all the time and charge bills of the South Western from 1843 produced, in order to prove the statement with respect to the differences of the charge to Winchfield for pas sengers and goods. The solicitor to the Company stated that he would produce all the bills, if possible. lie had felt some difficulty that morning iu making up even an ine7mplete set. This closed the case of the Corporation, with the exception of these The Committee then aclJonrrted till one o'clock to-morrow. CEOUP XVIII. EXETER, YEOVIL, .A.NM DORCHESTER, ATM LONDON, SALISIIITSLY, .sue D YEOVX . Z. - - - --- Mr. TALBOT, Q, C., opened the case on behalf of the Great West ern Company this morning. lie stated that' he laboured under con siderable disadvantages in consequence of his not having the same opportunity of retiTy which his learned friend would possess. The prin- P the Learned Counsel dwelt were, that competi tclioiall p wo o n il li t I s heVnopton which afil, je rd h cii by the continuation of the proposed line, that they would effect a junction with the Bristol and Exeterline, and thus secure the entire monopoly to theinselres of the west of England. The line supported by his Learned Friend Mr. Cockburn would not sufficiently accommodate the ports of Plymouth and Falmouth, in consequence of their present connexions 'lt ids Southampton. Dy the scheme proposed by the Great Western Gowan); this accommodation 'would be afforded, and those ports rest tired to their former prosperity. the eaustru.tio l l of the opposing line they would also seriously damsze the interests of the Southampton and Dorchester line, the aunan of th e i r company haying himself stated that the county wmic, not support two lino of railway. Contrasted with the other accommodate a greater line, the scheme for which he appeased W ou l d population, and atTord a means of conimu nl a ca e t o i mn w un tt l i c i i t northern g Le o,t..„.th t e parts of England, and would also open up large coal-fiats of Radstock, and effect thereby a Sevin as La. a ton to the consumers in the district through Whieli a th n' e ru b e Passed. The total estimate of their line was 1,800,000/. There was little or no opposition on the part of the landowners. The Learned COMISeI concluded a very lengthened speech by stating that upon, a full and mature consideration he was satisfied that the Com mittee would sanction the measure for which he appeared, and that thisi contest would be satisfactory to the Committee, and conse quently satisfactory to the public. J. Foster, merchant, of Plymouth, was the first witness called, who gave evidence in favour of the scheme of the Great Western Company. The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow. GROUP XX The Committee m e t 4 . 0.0ay at twelve o'clock, Mr. Sotherne I n th e chair. LONDon 'r.c0177.1:31.01.7,7, AND WEST ERN •in closed on Tuesday, the whole of the ilefuing evidence on the part of the fitting =Wad )111Inittee t 1 toeir behalf, after which :11r. ners moon the cour , e of the line wer e hno, n hip, it ,v eouki frjare their property, than hi point of pub!ic accommodation. t four o'clocl: till 3:widay week. 1:01 - P IPSVTIC.I-Z, L.I:TD YARMOUTH. Continued from our- Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Forma! evitTen.Le 14 to, the estimate,, eze., having been given in, Mr. h. 31 I 7 RP tee on t are that then: North avexey swleh, preamble of I; that the Nor- (Norwich Ex.- orloliilway ; end that the itv.7, - V 'tile coi “?. tics Rain morrow", to co 's Railway, at R h( t Yarrnc;va N mlll 11111. that the out - 11,2110n, 3 ch,us:s of rii with the p - Nr:c GIZOLT XXXI. PORIMUE7 PILE .11.1 , 17 D (Continued from Edition of ycgercLy.) Several n ew eLzus, s t:oon introduce.' into the Bill with the mer± n of the Cani,lit tee, auci the toili clause ha , in4 been revised, Le Dal was ordered to Le repented, atta the ConatalltyC adjourned. THE_ siTN, LONDON, FRIDAIT„EVENING, MAY 29, 1846. GROUP XXXII. OXFORD, WORCESTER, AND WOLVER HAMPTON RAILWAY (ZILANCRES). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The Committee at this point ordered the room to be cleared. On re-admission, parties were told by the Chairman that various matters bad been discussed during the interval, but the conclusion was that the Committee decided that the preamble of the Bill was proved. _ - Mr. LAING did not know that the room had been cleared with a view to considering this point, otherwise he would have interposed to offer evidence on the part of opposing landowners as to the insuffi ciency of the capital of the company and other matters. The CHAIRMAN said the room had not been cleared at first for that purpose, but the Committee would suspend the decision, that no in justice might be done to Mr. Laing's clients. Mr. LAING said there was a line before another Committee almost parallel with that before this Committee;:through the same district of country; and his end would be gained if the Committee would adopt a resolution which would have the effect of impeding the pro gress of this Bill, that both projects, this and the Hampton and Ash church, might be considered together. The CHAIRMAN had no power to do what had been asked; but he would lay the circumstances of the ease before the House when it came on to be considered there. This was agreed on. Mr. SEISE addressed the Committee on the part of the ironmas ters between Kidderminster and Dudley, with a view to obtain clauses compelling the company to accommodate them with the narrow gauge, and to revise their tolls. The CHAIRMAN said the Committeewere determined to revise the tolls on the whole line, and would advise the accommodation of the narrow gauge ; this request was very reasonable. As some clauses were produced by opposing parties, and application was made for time to consider them, The Committee adjourned at 3 o'clock till 2 o'clock to-morrow, when they will meet to go through the clauses of the Bill. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 28. Their Lordships met at ten minutes to Five o'clock. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the county of Herts against the Ministerial measure. Earl HAREWOOD also presented a petition, signed by 4,280 of the most respectable inhabitants of Dorking, praying their Lordships not to pass the Bill for the repeal of the corn-laws, as they conceived it was fraught with the greatest danger to the country. ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR. Earl POWIS introduced a Bill for the disjunction of these sees, which was read a first time. CORN-LAWS. Earl HARDWICK presented a petition from the Commis• sioners of the Bedford Level, setting forth that they had, by the expenditure of large sums of money in the erection of steam engines for draining the land succeeded in reclaiming a perfect morass, and making it excel lent growing land that it was now flourishing that they were interested in the maintenance of protection, and praying their Lordships not to assent to a repeal of the corn-laws. want to know whether if this were done, if high duties were created, if a body of manufacturers were to meet and no other persons were present, they would not discuss the grand topics of high rates charged to the British manufacturer, and the cer tainty, if those protective laws were repealed, of the evils that would ensue, that bales of foreign goods would rush into our markets, and that certain destruction of our manufacturers and others would be the result. Should we under such circum stances believe that it was a mere regard to the interests of the consumers that dictated their prayers ? My Lords, I must say in the same manner that I am a little incredulous whether that which has excited the enthusiasm of protection societies— that which has drawn such large crowds together at Willis's rooms that the two Noble Dukes who sit on the cross benches were obliged to divide their forces and to preside over different meetings—l say I cannot entertain a doubt, when that which has excited such a feeling among the producers of corn, and when 1 do not find such a feeling among the consumers, I say it was a mere apprehension at some future time our supplies from abroad might fail, and as a consequence that prices might rise to an extravagant height, I cannot help thinking that the apprehension of having too much corn and also too low prices will not be verified. If I were to refer to a sufficient answer to that, it is to be found in the argument employed by the Hon. and Learned Lord (Brougham) the first night of the debate, when he referred to the fact—the indisputable fact—that Napo leon, in the heighth of his power, and during the most exciting period of the French revolutionary war, was unable to exclude corn from being imported into the English ports. If that one fact is not conclusive, and if you wish more, I need only refer to what was said by the Noble Lord the late Secretary for the Colo nies, when he stated, in the course of his address, that competition was the cause of certain articles not rising in price. He stated, in the boldest and most authoritative manner, that of all the paradoxes that ever were conceived the doctrine that competition did not lead to the making of articles cheap was the worst.—(Hear, hear.) It is just as well a paradox to assert that the best security to the receiving of a plentiful and cheap supply of food is by the imposition of artificial restrictions on national and commercial intercourse. It has been argued, that the measure before the House should be rejected on the consideration that this subject is not one for legislation. If there be one question more than another on which 1 entertain a strollg opinion, it is that the present question is a great and proper object of legislation.—( Hear, hear.) Whatis the effect 1 of this raising of the price of corn by the operation of a re strictive law? It was well put by the Noble Earl that spoke the last night of the debate (Lord Clarendon). He showed, on the calculations of the Noble Earl opposite (Lord Stanley), and from a calculation taken from correct data, that the amount in the fall of price and the amount in the increase of consumption that would take place if the existing corn-laws did not exist could not be less than ten millions of money. Double the amount of the income-tax, and double the amount of the malt-tax,— a tax not a farthing of which goes into the exchequer for national purposes; but a tax imposed for the benefit —I will not say the benefit, but rather the injury, or at least the imaginary - benefit—of a single class of society.—( Cheers. ) But, my Lords, I know that it has been said that this is an unfair representation of the circumstances. I know that it has been admitted that the price of corn has been raised by the corn-laws—it has been admitted that the payment of a high , r price for their food is in itself a burden to the working classes. Still it is asserted that no real injury is done by this system of protection to agriculture, be came the facts which result from the existing law show that its effect is to keep up wages in the same proportion that it keeps up the price of corn. This was the peat argu ment of the Noble Lord who spoke so ably on Monday night. I cannot help remarking that it is perfectly clear, in the first instance, that the increase in the price of food is in itself a heavy tax on the working clauses, a large proportion of whose income is expended in the purchase of food. But it is asserted that the effect of the corn-laws is to keep up the wages of the labourer. We ought to be sure that this is the fact; it is net one which ought to be taken for granted, without the fullest and closest investiga tion. But that that lies at the root of the matter was lightly glanced over by the Noble Lord. He argued that if the price of corn was low, competition in labour would bring down wares in the same proportion, end, therefore, that the industrious classes would be no gainers. This is an easy way of disposing of the question, but it is not by any means a satisfactory one, and it was the less satisfactory because his Noble Friend made en admission which would lead to a directly opposite conclusion. Ile admitted that you by your legislative measures did not in terfere with the rate of wages. He told us that wages did not fall in the same degree as corn did, and, therefore, he really admitted that when the price of wheat rose the working man was exposed for the tittle to a considerable pressure. lam sure your Lordships will admit that I have not unfairly stated this argument of the Noble Lord. lam sure that the experi ence which we have had in the last few years is perfectly satis factory upon this point, if we compare the state of things in this country in the dear years as compared with the cheap ones. If you compare the state of things in the years 1833, 1834, and 1835, when wheat was low, with the years 1939, 1840, and 1841, when it was dear and scarce, you will fired that in the first of those years there was a great demand for labour , and wages were high, while in the last of those years you will find, on the contrary. that trade was slack, that there was no demand for labour, that wages had fallen, and that nuaabers of persons were thrown out of employment. The Ca lamitous state of the country during these years is a matter so recent. and it has made such an impression on every person who knew what the condition of the people really was, as to render it unnecessary for me to dwell upon it. But, my Lords, the reason of this state of things is obvious. There can be no doubt at all that the difficulty of these unhappy years to which I have referred can be easily accounted for. When corn rose to a high price, very family throughout the kingdom was compelled to expend a very large por tion of their income to obtain a supply of food, and there was, of course, a less available income for other things. There was less available income for clothing, fur tea, for sugar, and other articles of that nature. There was less demand for manufactured goods, for the articles of the small shopkeepers, and the merchant. There was, therefore, a general diminution of their power of employing Labourers, and a general a iminution in the consumption of the producing classes. This explanation is quite sufficient to account for the sufferings of that year. I ask what possible reason there is for believing, if these prices are low, the price of food becomes permanent. I see no reason of the kind, I believe permanently as well as temporarily, if the price of food is high, there is a small proportion of national income available for other pur poses, and therefore a comparatively small demand for labour, ante a larger proportion of persons seeking employment. Upon the other hand, in seasons of plenty and abundance, and low prices, the population consume other things in larger quantities there is a great demand for labour, and consequently a prosperous state of things takes place. I presume the orrectness of this course of reasoning is strongly borne out by fact, because when we look to other countries where there is this state of things—permanent low prices of food--in these countries we invariably find wages high. The Noble Earl, who spoke last night, admitted the fact. He said it was per fectly true that wages did not appear to be governed by the price of food, because, he said, in America and Australia, where the price of corn is low wages are high. In Poland, the price of corn is high, and the wages are low, being kept down by the mis• government of that unhappy country, the restrictions upon industry, and the want of emeloyment. I challenge my Noble Friend to mention any country in the world, from Ca nada to Australia, where there is a small population, with an extended territory, where food is cheap, and where there is good order and good Government—l defy him to mention any such country where wages are not exceedingly high. I believe that is an acknowledged fact, and I further contend that the reason for these high wages is to be found in that abun dance of food, for while food is abundant there was a competi tion amongst employers for labour, whereas when food was scarce, and in a thickly peopled country, the competition was amongst labourers to find employment.—( Hear, hear.) If you apply restrictive laws upon the trade in food, you increase the disadvantages under which a fully peopled county necessarily labour, because if you interfere with or restrict the trade of a large corn-producing country, you ir.crease the proportion of your unemployed labourers, who otherwise would be engaged in manufacturing goods for those corn-producing countries— ( Cries of "Hear, hear")—while, on the other hand, if you encourage the mutual interchange of products with such countries as Hungary, Poland, and America, you are increasing the inevitable disadvantages to which the la bourers of a thickly populated country are necessarily sub jected.—( Hear, hear.) After, however, what fell from a Noble Friend beside me upon the subject of the interchange of the commodities between a fertile, though a thinly populated country, and a thickly populated country, I should be ashamed to trouble your Lordships with a single word further upon this part of the subject.—( Hear, hear.) It is this interchange of commodities which keeps wages up in both countries. But I see a Noble Marquis opposite denies the justness of my con clusions, and I hope in the course of the debate he will point out to me where my chain of • reasoning is defective. If I am right in this argument, that one fact ought to be con clusive, and there ought to be an end to all future argu. ment—if we are once satisfied of that fact, no other argument, in a Christian country, ought for cne moment to be used against the measure.—(Hear, hear.) When I look at the condition to which the labouring classes have been subjected, when I consider how frightful has been shown the condition of the agricultural labourers in Dorsetshire and Wiltshire, when I know hew much they are below what we could desire, even in the most favoured countries, and when at the same time I know that the effect of the corn-laws, which are still working, is to depress wages and raise the price of food, it seems to me that it is utterly useless to argue the question further. Those who, in theyear 1842, ea led themselves the farmers 'friends, did a most serious injury to those who were so gullible as to believe. They rushed into the markets to get rid of their property, but they very soon found out, I believe, how great had been their mistake; and it is my conviction that the country has not yet recovered from the effects of their folly. lam happy to find that, notwithstanding the agitation and the prophecies which have been made as to the effect of this measure, that land never let better, never sold :setter, and that a greater spirit ofagriculture never existed in this country.—( Hear, hear.) I believe the demand for draining tiles is much increasing —so much so, that the moment a kiln of draining tiles is known to be ready, there is a struggle amongst the farmers of the neigh bourhood as to who shall be first supplied with those necessary articles for the improvement of their land.—(Heer, hear.) My Lords, I think the farmers and occupiers of land need not fear the passing of this measure ; and 1 think that, from what I have stated, it will be seen that there is no ground for the calculations and fears of my Noble Friend, and I think that his statement that corn can 1 now be sold in this country much cheaper than formerly is entirely groundless.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, I do not want—even if it were the fact that the price of corn would greatly fall in consequence of the passing of the Bill which is now under consideration—l do not want to go to any length on this portion of the question, but at the same time I cannot help adverting to the statement which was made with very great confidence by my Noble Friend, who spoke on Monday night, as having been previously made by what seemed high practical authority. My Lords, he told us that there were two cargoes of wheat at this moment in this country which had been pur chased in the Baltic Sea at 145., and had arrived in this country, and was offered at 235. the quarter. Now, my Lords, I was told by a gentleman, with whom I am certainly not ac quainted, but who deserioes himself as largely interested in the corn trade—though I meant net to trouble your Lordships with any fi gure ., I h ope you w il l forgive me if I read a very ‘ short extra c t f rom th e l e t ter to w hi c h I have adverted. ilets letter is da te d " Liverpool, yesterday." He says it is perfectly sof true that Lord Stanley's corresp on d en t has twoeamoe him wheat imported into this country, w hich cost him (mind ) the price named in this letter. Nothing falla cious than the statement which was made could the be more tld pricy hatle named. The that all wheat could he sold in this country a The original cost is about 335. per q uarter, including freight and all other charges A Asthat regards the from the glorious uncertainty of the sliding-scale. s tatement of Lord Stanley's cprrespondent as to the ( 4 wheat in this cemitry, I vece tame to say that wheat cannot be purchased at les s t h an 455, the qu arter at Weimar; and when 10 s. is added t o t h at for freight and all charges, it cannot be sold und er 55 5. per. querter. Taking into considration all the i isk as regar d s the quelity of corn, and all the disadvantages under which it c ou ld be , ought into this country, before the price of their le eir corn is affected by the opening of our ports, their prod uce could not be introduced y into this country at a lower pri c e th an that which the British e corn is now bearing in th e mar k et. I think that the result of protection of some ki n d t o th e f armer ought to teach th ose in terested in land, how li' de foundation there was for the fear at present expressed with regar d to the introduction of forign corn. My friend, in th e speec h to which I haveadverted,has told us that the manuf ac t ure o f wool was a strong case in point. Aly Noble Friend has endeavoured to make_ 04 that the fell ,in the price of wool was in consequence of the removal of the protection dely. West were tee oesl ,f regard to the wool tra.de ? Tite duty on wool was repealed at the time of the great panic in 1825. After that panic the whole trade of the country was affected for a long time. The value of wool went down like the value of other articles for two or three years before they recovered it. An injury was done to the manufacturers by the existence of high duties at that time. In the year 1828, when a Committee of this House was moved for, the evidence was brought by a number of gentlemen and persons connected with the wool trade, for the purpose of proving that wool at that time was at a ruinous price, and the manufacture of it was not sufficient to pay its expenses. They went on to say, according to the proofs they had on that subject, that the maintenance of the duty would be of advantage to the foreign grower; and they said the depression which they then experienced was nothing to what was coming, and that they should have bales of wool at prices which it was folly for the British grower to attempt to compete with. They stated that the same land which was valuable for the production of corn was valuable for the production of wool, with the same labour, soil, and industry; and in the course of a few years the cheap cern. growers would apply themselves to the growth of cheap wool ; and that wool, in proportion to its value ; was of smaller bulk than corn, could be transported a greater distance at less ex pense. Therefore that free-trade would cause the price to fall to a ruinous extent. The House was fortunately wise enough to refuse this committee, and what, he asked, was the result ? In the course of a short time—in one or two years— the price of wool recovered wonderfully. The woollen manu factures were greatly improved, and from that time to this wool has been one of the best articles of manufacture and of profit to the farmer. There was no article on which their profit was greater. The Noble Duke may shake his head. I know something of the price of wool, and what ever may be the price of wool in Sussex, I can inform him that in Northumberland the price of wool on the average of years, from 1828 to this time, has been considerably higher than the prices during the existence of the prohibitory duties. That was a strange fact. We are told that the competition in wool was more dangerous than that in corn, and that the removal of protection will destroy the woollen trade. The experiment of removing the protective duty had turned out well, and was it not reasonable that the same principle should b applied to the corn-laws ? There was another article of the same kind. At the time of the reduction in the tariff it was adverted to with the greatest possible apprehension, as being likely to in troduce cheap corn. My Noble Friend in some portion of his speech, says That in admitting foreign stock, it was actually repealing the correlaws, lor then corn would be im ported in the shape of fat cattle, and the foreign agriculturist would thus be saved the expense of carriage." I believe that my Noble Friend was right. He has been very careful in his arguments to show that the present high prices of stock were owing to the tariff; and so far l am bound to say that 1 concur with him. We have had four years' experience of the tariff, and if any great alteration has been made in ihe market by any supplies from ate oad, we have seen from the state of the mar ket last year, that far from it cau.in,g any re duction, the supplies from abroad have been unable to check the rise in the market, while at the same time the in treoluction of the small cattle, imported from Germany has pro duced a material eff, ct in that country, and the cattle in many places, in proportion to their size and quality, fetch very nearly as high prices as in this country. I could go on to show that the same thing occurs with reference to the produc, of other States. All these things are grown on the same land, by the same labour, and by the same means that are available to pro tection ; and they were all more valuable in proportion to their bulk than corn ; and yet in this article in which the trade is far less, we have found by experience that the British grower has nothing to fear. Sly Noble Friend has turned rout end said to us, " If you deny that you expect a fall in the price of corn, what is the advantage you expect from a redueed duty upon it?" Ho thought that by that question he had reduced us to a dilemma from -which there was no escaping. That was the sort of argument he had taken, and it requires very little con sideration to perceive that we do not expect to have a fall in the price of corn, but we expect it will be much more even. We do not believe that we shall have such variation under free trade as we saw where in 1836, in December, the price of corn was 355., and in 1839 it was 81s. per quarter. We shall have neiiher of these extremes. We expect that we shall have the average prices lower than they have been during the last dozen years, and reduce the amount of fluctuation. The Noble Lord has denied that it will render the prices more equal ; but I believe that there will be no difficulty in showing your Lordships that the prices will be more secure. What is the invariable regular ion of prices ? What is it that lowers the prices in dear years, arid heightens the prices in cheap years ? It is commerce which bestows this upon us, and which puts us its that superior position to which we were in those barbarous times, when we had at one time a plentiful supply and great distress to the grower, and at another time scarcity of torn, and famine and distress to the consumers. In a civilised country this is the operation of commerce ; a man is been for his own interest. He buys in the cheap year and sells in the dear year, and in this system of social organisaation, when not interfered with, regulates the prices so as to check that extensive suffering of one party or another. The opera tion of the tariff has rendered the dealing in corn a gambling transaction, in which a great part of the merchants hesitate to embark. So strong is that fact, that it was proved before an agricultural Committee of the other House, that the course pursued was such as to render any trade in corn en hazardous as literally to hinder any merchant from embarking in it. There used to be at one period a stock, such as would always carry on the country for six months, but since the trade in corn has been rendered one of so hazardous a nature, the stock in the country has been reduced to just enough for a tortnight's con sumption. That was a proof of the injurious effect of any corn-law. What was the reason that prices fell so low in 1839 ? Was it in consequence of the competition with foreign corn ? Was it to the competition of any foreign country that we owed that ? No. It was our own succession of good crops in this country. The high prices and low credit of a few years before had artificially stimulated the prices of corn, and, in consequence of that, a great effort was made to increase the growth of corn, and a large quantity was then produced, at a time when the consump tion was not sufficient to take it off the hands of the growers. It was the excess of our own produce; and so long as we adopt only one source of supply, we must be exposed to want in years of scarcity, and excess in years of plenty. How different the case would be if we took the same proportion of supply from abroad. If that were the case, and you had a re gular trade in foreign corn—enough for home consumption— the foreign corn would be quickly supplied in the dear years and in scarce seasons ; are', n consequence, the price would be higher in comparison, that year titan in other years, The trade would bear a larger proportion in its prices of corn than it then did, and therefore it would be less inducement to the merchant to introduce foreign corn, and the country would thus be able to take off all of its own growth by a slight re striction on the quantity received from abroad. This would be the natural operation, and the farmer, by eelling a larger quantity of corn, would be compensated for the fall in its price. 1 do not deny that, in plentiful years, the produce would be cheaper than in scarce years, and it wou.ki be the foreign grower, and not the home grower, who would. reap the benefit of this measure. There is another advantage which we shall derive from tire repeal of the law, an advantage of great im portance. The advantage would be a greatly increased con sumption of corn. Wilt any man attempt to argue that the people of this country consume as much corn as they desire— that they do not desire any more. In Wiltshire and Dorset shire, the consumption was far less than what the labourers desired. He believed that the peasantry do not wish to live on less bread than they do at present, and to supply the place with inferior articles of food; and the effect of repealing the re striction on the statute book, would be to c au:se a greatly in ' creased consumption of corn. There would also be a greater consumption of cattle; the consequence of arts improved de mand would be, that the farmer would take even a larger number than at present; and, I need not tell your Lordships, who are yourselves landowners, that every attempt' to improve agriculture, is commenced by the taking of an increased num ber of stock. There will be a greater crop, in consequence, and cheaper corn. The direct tendency of tb e system would be to authorise the gradual improvement of agricul ture; and in my belief, it will offer a stimulus to competition, and an encouragement •to trade. Un der the increased demand and consump titan, agriculture will make far more progress than it has hitl sort° done. We shall see that the science is but in its infan ey. It has been said that a removal of the old tenantry wo old have to take place. I believe that such a thing will be unnecessary. A change of tenantry I should regard as a great misfortune, and also such a sweepng alteration in the count ry. It is not ne cessary—the farmers are disposed to improve their condi tion and those under them. Of course, foreig el countries had not prepared corn to the extent we require, nut el the introduc tion would only be felt by degrees. In my opinion, the change should be gradual, arid as the cultivation gratin: Lily extended, so would the consumption of the country extend in an equal ratio. The means by which the facilities of improvement would be increased would be by adopting then recommendation of my Noble Friend's Committee, with regaled to the transfer and conveyance of landed property. Let in ie remark, also, that improved farmers would employ mores agricultural la bourers. In that farming, called the high er farming, the owner employs more hands, and employs then a more continually on the land. In the evidence adduced befc toe the Committee of my Noble Friend, we were told, that t rise farmer of the South of England was obliged, in order to pi 'tweet their being thrown on the poor-rates, to employ more h: aids than he re quired. When it was said, that the land wot del go out of culti vation, it was a wrong calculation of the prot,v able effect of the law. So far from it, it will be better empl o yed. I, for one, do not expect to see any fall even in the rent s. The land in a populous country would always be used in sot a e way. I would have entered upon a very important p o i nt , i n re f erence to this question, but I t r usted to have the opport u nity at another stage of the Bill.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," and cheers.) The Noble Lerd who spoke last night consid e red that it was impolitic to narrow the means of employment; by letting in fo reign goods in competition with our own. Ih it let me observe with reference to the colonies, that there is t r o such difficulty as to the means of finding profitable emplr e vment for labour and capital. The difficulty there is to find su 9 iciest labour and capital for the profitable development of the :natural resources and wealth of their country; and the effect o f y our protecting duties is to divert their industry and capita!, from its natural, and therefore most legitimate. chennel, into :a course of opera tion of an artificial ar,d unproductive char teeter. No man doubts that Canada is poorer than she would have been had you not given her protecting duties On her ti usher. L e t any man say the vast amount of labour and wear it r which has been expended in consequence of your absurd and itapolitic system. It has had the effect of importing a vast amot te,t of bad and et with . respect to in feriortimber into this c oun t ry . Thi s i s the s to all the other coloni es . Th ey ga i n not h in @: I st allntyuder r Y o protective system.. Th e y wo u ld h ave full e a P°Ynien possess. But, any circumstances for all the capital which they your at the same time, whil e they gain nothing duties, they are serious losers by them in ee se protective quence of the protection which we claim from themo in reti sr n. Protective West Indian colo n i es ; they have suffered great duties have been highly greatly notinjorious to our being able tr. t obtain th e i r va rious supplies from different markets, as by t and tc I send th e i r pro- duce to this country on the most adva titageo us terms. dnothing ' • game by your duties, and of fact they have In point this principle which applies to the West I ndia c o l onies, is • • ne the whole to all the other colonies; es ;amine also applicable circle of te e m, and you will find my a' item net correct, that not only they not gain anything ley your re t nedVe (nes but that they are actually losers in consequer. of the reci procity which we claim from them in return. llt the • -that is ordinarily acquainted with the histor re any min who does not see that it was the desirey this country, to force a sys tem of commercial dependence upon our A r lerican colo nies that was really at the bottom and what resulted in the loss of of the A.; nerican war, this country ? It was this those grew colonies to that bloody and Protracted commercial policy brought on s-, and involved the nation in ono: mows dcbt. It is a fact, notorious to every one, that the attempt to enforce this system of commercial de e), eedency, was the cause of the di ion this country crcm third Stan's. am not i in s s n l ia ri i , n p e a d red in t o ti s r ay that these lit; te h provinces would have still re e piCrown. Th ey might at any rate o h s - s t e m s' l i o a n r te o na w t i le, rus i i t n i h a diff,!rer.t manner, an d st i ll preserved amicable 'relations with 03, instead of a certain degree of jealousy and . angry feeling which always seems to exist between Amen tea and this country. I should have thought that the Nob' V t Earl would not have alluded to that topic, as it might have produced in his mind certain disagreeable rccollc, ?lions of a debate which took place last yea 5. in the House of Commons on the question of the ado me on of Aus tralian corn into this country. What was the covase of pro ceeding at that period? You granted them tt le privilege of sending their corn into this country. You refu end that privi lege to all the other colonies and gave it to Ca vada, because she had just before been in a state of insurrection, while at ths 'erne 2-,•!•ee •i te :hese enie. •.. r been lose'. My Lords, I for one think this was a course of policy well calculated to rouse a spirit of diaffection. The Noble Earl went on to say that it was your duty to keep these colonies always in a state of dependence, and alluded to the great military and naval expense attending keeping these colonies. I must be permitted to say, that this israther a defective mode of argument. The point to be proved is the advantage of a protecting duty. That being the point to he proved, you first say if you do nut give protection you lose the colonies, and that therefore is a reason for keeping protection, and then you turn round and say do not take assay protection, for there is no further reason for maintaining tee colonies if you do ; that is, I ct nsider, arguing in a circle. You say do met touch the protect Mg duties; having thus estab lished the necessity for protecting duties, you turn round and say, if you have not protecting duties, of what use are the colonies? This was one of the most complete possible examples of arguing in a circle which I ever knew. We have the ad vantages of a colonial empire, possessing friends in every quarter of the world—of having a large population in every p ar t of the globe p ossess i ng great natural resources, ready to unite heart and soul with us, and prepared to defend our positions, t ° support and defend our interests, and to take part with ne against all attacks which may be made against us; and, upon the other hand, they have this inestimable advantage, and which, I verily believe, they prize and value—they have the glory and security derived to them from being part of the greatest, the mightiest, and most civilised nation on the face of the earth—the have the glory of calling themselves British subjects, and the proud satisfaction of feeling that in defence of their interests and the protection of their just rights; th e power and might of this great country is ready in a moment to be called forth and be exercised for their defence. 1 believe that they are fully sensible of these benefits ; and I believe if these benefit s , y ou extend a liberal policy both politica l : and commercial, a n d exten d to them the clearest and most indisputable right of Englishmen, the power of self-g o vern: ment, and avoid vexatiously meddling in their international affairs, you will bi n d th em to you with a chain which ne powers on earth can break, end that connexion between th e parent state and the colonies will be extended till their PcPu lation far exceed that of the mother country. The Noble , Lord next proceeded t o s h ow h ow un j ustly this measure wou l d operate it passed into a law upon Canada. He proceeded to. s y—you have encouraged Canada to ext en d l arge sums of money upon the faith of your continuing to theta the protection afforded by the existing corn-laws , and that it would he an act of great injustice to that country if we were to alter the present law. H e fur ther said that the Canadians have no chance of competing with America, and if we passed this Bill in its present state we should ruin the commercial prosperity of Montreal and Que bec, and transfer the trade and commerce of these places tO New York. My Lords, I think in the present case the opt' nions of the Canadians are entitled to some weight from y o ur Lordships. What are the feelings of the Canadians upon the subject ? My Lords, I hold in my hand a newspaper pub lished in Cenada, containing a repoit of the debate which took place in the House of Assembly of Canada upon that subject. It may be as well to state that her Majesty's Government, im mediately upon coming to their resolutions respecting the alteration of the corn-law, made a communication to the Government of Canada of their intentions, and told them tha t they were at liberty to repeal the duty of 35. a quarter upon American wheat, which they had imposed when the measure was submitted to them by the Government at home. A mea sure was accordingly ini reduced for the purpose of repeaing the duty on American wheat. In the course of discussion e" that question a motion was made anj carried in the Assemble" for reporting progress. What turned out to be the fact ? It seems this amendment was carried in consequence of a misaPZ prehension, some et the parties not exactly understanding each other as to this effect of this vot e . I n a f ew d a y s after the consideration of the subject was resumed, and .. a vote was tak en u p on t h e su bj ect. I have read the speec hes which took place during that debate ; but there seems to ha ve been noth ing o f t h at desponding and hopeles feeling to which the Noble Lord referred. On the contrary, there was 11 general a tone of more manly and hopeful nature ; and at - proof of the existence of the feeling, the measure w as carried by a majority of 45 to 27. The Noble Lord went on to say, that the passing of this measure would shake their feelings of loyalty to the British Crown. I confers, my le urd e s s ' that I hea r d thi s l anguage with great ten as it seem e d t o i mp l y that the Canadians would be 0109 justified in n - ianufamuring a spirit of disloyalty an d disaffectlu e r i Why, my L or d s, t h e very same week in whi c h they had h i e% discussi ng th e repea l of the cern•laws, in that same week 1 Militia Bill was under the consideration of the A s senabier., will read t o y ou an account of the proceedings in the As sembly. (The Noble Earl ( Grey) then read a report of te . proceedings upon thi s Bill, t h e tenour of which implied a fee! of confidence i n th e G overnment at home.) The result, th: of those con s id era ti ons i s, i n my mind, to demonstrate t hat the passing o f thi s Bill , now before your Lordships, is an peratively required by the great masses of that countreri —( Hear, he ar )— an d t h at, by passing this Bill,we e. cur. no tisk of any injury to our interests, colonial or domestic. None of the great interests of the e mpire a ‘ , l _, , be exposed in my opinion to any injury. Upon the other h .w i e u ,.. by ejecting this measure, you will injure many great rests. I ask you ; and 1 remind the Noble Duke setting on the cross-benches, who at an early peri. this f city 0 evening, when the petition of the merchants of the &B . sig bonded London was presented by a Noble Earl o e posite, asked ' candy how many signers of the petition are holders of bon corn. I think your Lordships all know the inuendo conveys's:, in that observation ? Now, my Lords, I wish to ask and I will also remind the Noble Duke, that if we rej ect l this Bill, whether the Noble Duke's example will theee be followed by other parties, and whether it will not lead a to think upon the subject of your rejection of this measure, (Richneosi inquiring into the reasons which may have led your Lordship s ..o to reject this measure ? I ask whether they will not begin to inquire how many of your Lordships are owners of land? 3 i , Lords, I do not believe that, conscientiously, at all events, any of your Lordship s can b e i n fl uenced by these motives. But after what has been said by the NoLle Duke, I c annot think but that a great many of you are influenced In your decision by the f ac t s t h a t your L ordships are owners of land. believe my Noble Friend felt himself justified in asking that question. But I think it would have been much better if , when he asked that question, he had remembered what wo uld be the eff et produced in the public mind, of an assembly of Im:dot-mei s rejecting a Bill imperativ e ly called !or by the pe o pl e o f t hi s county Lords, y. I trust, my that before you t a k e a course which seems to me so full of danger, you will reflect upon the practical consequenq s of the rejection of this measure. I trust your Lordships wall riot act upon mere passion, nor gratify any feeling of indigos' tion which you may feel towards those whom you think may have deceived 'sou ; or that your Lordships will not act up:. the principle or punishing the Ministry, or certain Member:tr.; the House of Commons who gave opinions upon this m r ea,_„„ contrary to your Lordships, but that you will conside se e manedasufarier,lywhbae f t o r w e ilylo beu dtheteerpmraincteicaubp practicable en effect theupon rejection he ofp e.opinion of this country, and what may be the probable opi t e_u e ' s which the people of this country will form upon the motives which which guided the decisions of your Lordships. For w? the fact ? 134 your Lordships believe that you can maim' the existing corn-law ? Is there a Noble Lord in that the who now hears me w h o b e l ieves t" the Government of this country can, looking 8 t the events of the last few y ears , an d t h e grea t c h ang e that has taken place in public opini on , thi n k it i s poss ibl e to main tain the existing law for a p er i o d o f an y l engt h . I as k th e three Noble Dukes (Richmond, Cleveland, and Buckingham/ if they believe it possible, by any combination o f c i rcumstanc e* for two years to mai n t a i n th e existing corn-laws? The Duke of RICHMOND—" Yes."—(Laughter.) The Duke of CLEVELAND--" Yes, yes."—(lncreased laughter. ) The Duke of BUCKING H AM—" Yes, yes, yea."—(Roars of laughter.) Earl GREY—The Noble Dukes say " Yes, y es ," but I can only say that the Noble Earl who spoke last night with great animation, and at considerable length upon the subject, seemed to expect some alteration in the existing law. But if it is likely to tend to the same result, then no roan "° his sober senses will recommend a dissolution of Parliarner t. When we consider the injury which would be inflicted 0 0 t he country, the absolute paralysis of trade which must ensue, call we say that it is a thing to be desired that the country should be put in one universal ' flame, when the result would be th e passing of the same Bill ? But, any Lords, can they imag ine that by throwing out this Bill, that they can obtain even a come less o promise, and that they cod induce Parliament to aide" night measur ul e ? :My Noble Friend on Al e ";, t il night threw out many h in t s th a t those who voted for th to in the present stage, could have opportunities of alteringel se, another. However, I put it to you, do you think it adyisable_t. e r fy ject this measure :n the hopes of substituting another of the e ke L i e It is a vain hope. Loox at the spirit of the times, and t .s llf' ns do you think it possible of accomplishment? If there I alteration it will he an alteration of free trade in a mote t'„ tended degree. My N o ble F r i en d s , i t was a great i ncon s te"? .. in me to s upp or t suc h a measure as t hi s, when I formerly s ported a fixed duty. But I did support a fixed duty, not a the principle of protection, but b ecause I believe d t h a t ".,. duty would he the best principl e of protection ; for I have e v er objected to the whole prin c ipl e of what is called proteece , But at that time I thought a moderate fixed duty was auV ef , able, because I believed it wo u ld pro d uce l itt l e perce ptible . "`,4 ference to the consumer, y e t nevert h e l ess b e t h e meal'' greatly augmenting the rev enue o f t h e country. I thoug ht was a reasonable compromise, an d t h at i t wou ld give us , it years sooner all the adv an t ages o f a f ree tra d e , an d t h at would avert a most injurious struggle which I foresaw, al'' proaching. These were the grounds on which I maintained that ❑ were rapiclq, innth a t t h a o fi s e x fixed o d t i l t e t y in was ew h o e desirable,were then for I t s e a o p k peon t r h t, e irneg liberty th that . the days, and ment, that the measure would lead to an i free e t o- r G aL v . "ll told them that if they desired a fixed duty - f a going by, and that I, for one, t that such a settlemen t at the time it was offered, believed t be unattainable, an d even the hours, in which they couldfixed be s y e'cured, that the choice weuld, at a future moment, be• am convinced that had h=d tb would never be proponrind 1842 it would have b e accepted t by measure been a dnpied aded that oul t• nw would - • l 1 , 13 e agoa to oo continue nor could --le n.° le" firmlayl)e'li iene hw an such a ao e believe )aibe)tieanspivaorrnet,yr ease upon such a coredeeply g rd to public believe it would c promise. lam e • this question. I am not interested in philosopher e nough' eo inierested. As landowner this •rft ,eny •nterest must affected, my pecuniary be ect measure nthoelocrotihgun: trt w rs: ; a. i c nab h u: w -l o a u rfi l d tend to keeopf agitation alive, whit u i s nothing which I should deprecate M d o and th ere that n othing should be done to injure , rae an t d hfiax l ne am most d m pu o at s sys t : e a u tx , i fh e o u rl e my property ; $ the effect you effect it ? We know tha t eacbriedivtehtheanction of Pa, ham _7; re , my Lords, we cannot exclude f rom our consideration so me rem t he Government. We know that the country. By week to nothing of the kin I a fixed duty whate pose ion of the affai r s .aate e ast language y a se re t of men in this theithin t ,.f :Be it cannot be by the parry of lest held by the prote 'lca is quite inaPP the for them. The alternative - ;*r emember ctit t ) s nis p , r s ote t c h t a io t n ire bou-ttradeitself w o of preferable to protection. And what has been the langu a g a e c e s, the party with whom I have had the honour hitherto 10 aft t the My Noble Friend, who i 3 at the head of that party, stated .o._ commencement of the ses,ic,n, that he was prepared to is e n ci a 0 take the duty of Government on the principle of repeal; 3 suc h all know that my worthy friend is the best man to listen to se a a suggestion, and the best person to come forward to PreP;third fixed duty after what has passed. Well, then, there is th .ls party as they call themselves, are they prepared to do it?ls in my Noble Friene who represents their opinions n jell this House, or the Nob'e Dukes who coincide in o P__ t ele with him, are tlrey prepared to form a Government .tilpebuthey principle? I think, after the very severe language which have held on the subject of inconsistency—of change _ and of eating words— I think they, of all, should be the ,ceo et and would be the last—to prepose a fixed duty ; for t l o ej eurna n be then demonstrating how far the inconsistency " Iv (w ee nature was poe,ible.—( Laughter.) At al! events, they tboa, never listen to such a proeesition.—( Hear. hear. ) el l ' d there is nobody to take the charge of such a compro en !Di the idea of a fixed duty may be consigned to oblivion q uestion opinion it wou ld h ave b een t h e b est sett l emen t of the accepted by th° had it been adopt e d w h en it wou ld h ave been accep inta i n country. We have now to choose whether we will ma the law as it at present exists, cr consent to a more complete acknowledgment of the principles of free trade. Sly Lords , ably' ad' Noble Friend on Monday night who addressed you /To the An verted to a speech delivered by a leading Member of, ulterior Corn-law League, in which the Speaker pointed out . measures which were contemplated by that associe.tion Leag ue ' Lord KINNAI R.D.--The speech was not made at the Earl GREY—I am told that it was not made at the uite Leaguedpropel it is a matter of little consequence, and I am q EXPLOSIVE SUBSTANCES BILL. On the motion that this Bill be read a second time, The Duke of RICHMOND rote and objected to the course now proposed lo be taken. It was contrary to the usual prac tice of the House to enter upon business of that kind until the presentation of petitions was over, especially did he object to any departure from the usual course when such an important Bill as the Corn Bill was under the consideration of the HOLM'. CORN-LAWS. The NOBLE DUKE then proceeded to present a petition against the Ministerial measure, on the corn-laws, from the landowners, tenant-farmers, and others, resident at Chelms ford, in the county of Essex. Petitions in favour of the Government measure were pre sented by Lord Radnor, by the Earl of Ripon, and by Earl St. Germans. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM presented petitions from the county of Essex against the Corn Importation Bill. Lord BEAUMONT presented similar petitions. The Earl of DALHOUSIE, in presenting a petition, said that the petition which he had the honour of pre senting was numerously signed by the merchants, bankers, and traders of the City of London. The petitioners prayed that their Lordships would pass the mea sure which her Majesty's Government had introduced be fore the House. The petition was signed by twenty-four of the Directors of the Bank of England, by nineteen of the bankers of London, and by two hundred and seventeen of the merchants and traders of the City.—(Hear, hear.) He was sure that whether as regarded the intelligence of the persons signing the petition, or the material interest which they had in the measure which was then before their Lordships, their Lordships would give that petition the consideration it deserved. He would not enlarge on the influence which ought to attach to that petition, but he might remind their Lord ships that a petition was presented in 1820 which had given rise to the system of commercial policy which had been from that period step by step pursued. In the same way he trusted that this petition from the merchants of Lon don would cause their Lordships to sanction a course of policy which would lead to renewed and extended commercial policy. Lord ASHBURTON would venture to say that it would be easy to obtain a petition as large, andi 3 numerously signed, informing their Lordships that in tor.: en iio .113 measure was fraught with danger to the interests of the people of this country._(Cheers from the cross benches.) He thought it necessary to say these few words upon the subject. The petition merely expressed their individual opinion. Lord BROUGHAM quite agreed with the Noble Lord, that this petition w as one express i ng t h e op i nions of individuals. But. if it be true that such a petition could so easily be brought forward by his Noble Friend upon such a question, he pro nounced the City of London to have totally changed their opi nion since his Noble Friend presented their memorable petition against the corn-lawsin the year 1815. Lord MONTEAGLE did not consider that the signatures to this petition might not necessarily infer a perfect una nimity of opinion upon the subject. It did not follow, that a petition of quite another effect might be presented here after. He hoped the Bill would not be disposed of by the vote of to-night, he therefore invited his Noble Friend to use all his influence with the merchants of London to produce a counter-petition from them. Earl DALHOUSIE did not intend to provoke any dis cession on this occasion. He did not state that it was a pe tition of the City of London, but a petition, signed by mer chants and bankers of the City of London, and wished to draw the attention of their Lordships to the respectable nature of the signatures attached to it. The Duke of RICHMOND —I should like to know, my Lords, how many of these persons have got any of the bonded corn ? —( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Lord BROUGHAM must say that the Noble Duke had made an ingenious observation in the form of a remark, but he confessed he did not hear the same observations made when the petition was presented in 1820.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord ASHBURTON said the petition alluded to by his Noble and Learned Friend contained an expression of the opinion of the merchants of the City of London against re strictions in trade generally, and not against the corn-laws. He doubted, however, whether even that petition was signed by the majority of the most considerable merchants of the City of London. Lord BROUGHAM wished to ask his Noble Friend whether the petition against the restrictionson trade generally contained any exception as to corn ?--( Hear, hear.)' The Duke of CLEVELAND presented a petition from the landowners and tenant-farmerslof the county of Essex against the Corn Bill. Earl DALHOUSIE presented petitions from the mer chants and brokers of Liverpool, from certain operatives of Stockport, from the merchants of Kingston-upcn- Hull, and from the Commercial Association of Man chester, in favour of the Corn Bill.—( Hear, hear.) Also a similar petition from the American Chamber of Com merce, Liverpool.—(Hear, hear. ) VENTILATION OF THE HOUSES OF PARLIA- M I NT. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said he had received a communication from Dr. Reid in some degree explanatory of the intense heat which their Lordships had suffered on the last night of debate. He had also received a communica tion from a Mr. Gurney, who offered to ventilate the House upon a new principle. He would not recommend them to adopt any theory, but to resort to the good old prat ciide by which the former !louses of Parliament was venti lated, and which succeeded perfectly well. (Hear, hear.) There was one fact which he would state to their Lordships with reference to Thursday night. The thermometer, brought in at 61, had, before the candles were lighted up, risen to 75. He would ask that the letter might be laid before the House. Lord BROUG HAM had no objection whatever to make to his Noble Friend's motion. He had' experienced much injury from the excessive heat on Monday night, and what he wanted was not explanation, but air.—( Loud laughter.) He should not care a straw for any explanation which might be offered to their Lordships by the ventilation of the House.—( Hear.) It was a hard thing that he was to be tortured like some low animal by Dr. Reid, or any other doctor. —(Laughter.) He really believed that at the bottom Dr. Reid was a heartless de ceiver.—( Laughter and cheers.) Lord CANNING handed in the letter alluded to by the Noble Marquis. CORN-LAWS.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Earl GREY—Before I address the House on the subject of the order of the day, I beg to present two petitions relating to that subject—one from the Town Council of Hastings, beg ging your Lordships to pass the Bill now before the House immediately and unimpaired; also a similar petition from Wilts. My Lords, I am conscious that the subject which is now before the House has been both in and out of Parliament,, by speeches and writings, so long and so fully dis cussed, that your Lordships may well be of opinion that no new argument remains to be urged upon it, and that you must therefore naturally be anxious to bring this debate to a close. My Lords, I cam assure you I should not have contributed to the delay, I should not have ventured to tres pass upon your Lordships' attention on the last night that we sat, with what, I 'fear, must be thought pertinacity, were it not that, having for many years taken a deep interest in this question, I could not reconcile it to myself to stand aloof from this, I trust, the final battle of that great cause, or to allow this debate to conclude without showing the deep interest I took in the debate. My Lords, I must further say, that one strong inducement—one principal reason which urged me to a strong desire to address your Lordships, was my feeling that a great impression had been made upon your Lordships by the speech which we heard on the first night of the debate, and which was listened to with such just and general admiration— of course I mean the speech of my Noble Friend the late Secretary for the Colonies, for whose absence this evening, from whatever cause it may arise, I very greatly regret.—(Hear.) My Lords, I can assure you I listened to that speech with as much delight as any of your Lordships because, though I think my Noble Friend made an admirable speech, he was much misinformed in what he stated to your Lord ships. His reasons were unsound, and his conclusions were unjust; but still his arguments were so ingenious, and were put with so much skill, and clothed in language of such ex treme beauty—in fact the whole speech was so brilliant a dis plays of rhetorical talent, that for upwards of three :hours it received the attention of every Noble Lord who listened to it, making it unlike most other speeches —not a labour but a pleasure to hear. I know that some of the arguments in that speech have already been answered, es pecially by the Noble and Learned Lord who followed him in the debate, and by a Noble Friend of mine, who now sits behind me, and who spoke on the subject last evening. But it seems to me that there are still some por tions of that speech to which it is required that your Lordships' attention should be called, I am not vain or pre sumptuous enough to suppose that I am fit to enter into the lists with my Noble Friend, but I have such confidence in the powers of truth, that I believe that the cause even in my humble hands may be successfully recommended to your Lord ships, and that on some of the more important parts of my Noble Friend's speech,: I shad succeed in satisfying your Lordships that he has been wrong. The first observa tion I shall have to address to your Lord ships is, that through the whole course of the debate it has struck me very forcibly that those Noble Lords who have been opposed to the Bill have all avoided explicitly reviewing and defending that which I take to be the main point and hold of the existing corn-laws, as well as of all other laws upon the same subject. It is clear that ,the real i v a n e i m t n e t r u i t o e of d n h a t n h u dm ob ject e e b l i duced, is th at of securing a remunerative price f laws and the object of all laws intro corn, or in ot h er words to raise the price of food to the people by an art i f i cial supply. It appears to me that, as I have y j etcot ofa l submitthteos these laws; it is Lordships,onewhich t hisi s requirest he real to be proved by argument, and in the absence of all argument, unless cogent reasons can be adduced in favour of so artificial a restriction of the supply, it must be concluded that laws which will give cheapness of food to the people are much to be desired. They represent that the repeal of those laws will accomplish other than those which I think are its real objects. In particular, most Noble Lords who have spoken, assert that the g bfie r he e ep a se t r o m bject of th e present law, was to secure a certain supplia to prote c t us f rom the great danger of dependence upon foreign nati t o ae n irnnd s e e faonNryfoawto, other my peprl peopleof that f f t o h o is d which is ne cessary He ar h t the existhis a i t t e t e t d h e t o arg a u y na t :et a t t s w t h i s i which quite manyout of Noble y t ,Lor ds er to h r v e e o. p a r u d t light than without meanin g a mea c n ol in o g mur a a n bi y loe f a en rg c u e rn l ; m a_ ay not the real object for which the continuance of the law is supported. Let me just ask you this? Spose a similar argument; and under similar circu mstances, thefow , e p r oc e turgedthese on.manufactures ea np b : y ai c u o t s fu , rt eh w se o d those Noble Lords, who now andur ththeatsiotcheeritygooof6 opurroi manufac turing for the whole wo o !: c3nsumption—that c orn - os l t a iev w oe s su g n? i t v r e y, p i n nw i s di el c la i d t is c uo r pf e l c s l mo i s t l t u o trah u ca. s t from our markets by the high ed Lords, if under such circumsta House were, whether we should eomestic is y pendent country was much higher than in the rest of the world, question before the I such high protective population will be without on ofsherierittliane aric;toinons: duties on cotton: and supp ose of this country wered "Do not be to same to us an say, should feel perfectly so rash as to you will leave e repeal those duties, as yourselves d dr ilaicenrepeuseprflaopestetaerietlwi iertezoeof .1 were 3iec f rts o te r :nen o x ti oie r wnl u, O tdm - i manufacturers so gowns, and you lament your be rashness." I want to know wile , ber we feeling for the Consumer; s in th ce a d t d t ic h t a a t te i d t wsuaschtahicsoduirssient;eraensdteld GROUP XLIV. THE BLACKBURN, CLITHEROE, AND NORTH-WEST JUNCTION. (Continued from our Afternoon Editleis of yesterday.) After Mr. Gurney had concluded his address, the Committee ad• lourned till twelve o'clock on Wednesday week. GROUP LII, This Committee met to-day at three o'clock, Mr. P. Miles is the chair. GRAND ZIINCTION (HUTTON AND WAR RINGTON BRANCH), AND ST. HELEN'S CANAL AND RAILWAY. The preambles of these Bills having been proved on Tuesday last, the Committee met to-day for the purpose of considering certain clauses which were disputed. After some alterations and amendments, the clauses were agreed to, and the Committee, having concluded their labours, broke up. GROUP LIII. SHROPSHIRE UNION RAILWAY AND C az7.11.16 (CHESTER TO WOLVERHANIPTON). i (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. Edward Eallis, land agent, in Cumberland, was also called to prove the benefits of such a line as this to that country. Mr. Charles Warren, solicitor, and occupier of laud in the neigh bourhood of Market Drayton, stated that that district was greatly in want of such accommodation as this line would afford to them. Mr. E. Thley, farmer; Mr. J. Firth, land bleacher, Market Dray ton; and Mr. Wilson, landed proprietor, gave similar evidence as to the advantages of the line. The last-named gentleman admitted, on cross-examination, that at the late meeting of the proprietors to determine whether the scheme should be persisted in or not, although the holdefs of 78,000 shares voted that it should, there were the holders of 20,780 who recorded contrary votes. At that meeting, also, a resolution was adopted, to the effect that, supposing the di. rectors could only obtain one of their three schemes passed by the Legislature, they would immediately abandon it. Mr. Thomas Blakemore, banker, Newport, and Mr. Holland, of the same place, stated that it was the general opinion in that dis trict that the construction of this line would be of great benefit to Newport and the neighbourhood. Mr. Whitehead, land agent, was also called to show the advan tages which the line would confer on the people of Stafford. Mr. Hayes gave similar evidence with respect to Crewe. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock, GROUP LIB'. covmnalty, NTTEI EATON, EXIINZINGEAVE AND LExcraimn. The Committee resumed their labours this morning by proceeding with the further consideration of the above scheme. The case fur the promoters not having been finished, witnesses from Coventry, Birmingham, and Leicester, and their locality, were called to prove the extensive mineral and other traffic in those parts, and the neces sity that existed for the construction of a line of railway to accommo date the traffic, and furnish a free intercommunication. The engineering evigence was gone into, from which it appeared that the line could be constructed without having to contend against any peculiar difficulties, and that the estimates were lady sufficient to carry out the construction of the works. The line of examination was objected to on several occasions during the progress of the inquiry by the opponents to the scheme, but the objections were not always sustained. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock. GROUP LVL The Select Committee appoinTedio — Consider the merits of the Bills comprised in this 'group re -assembled at the usual hour this morning ; Mr. Ewart in the chair. LONDON AND Z3MACIMITTAX.I. EXTZNSION. Mr. Whiteman, the superintendent of the existing line, was called to prove that last year 3,300,000 passengers were carried over the Black wall Railway, while it was calculated that if the extension passed, the number would be augmented to upwards of half a million more. This closed the case for the promoters. Mr. GURNEY then addressed the Committee on behalf of the Corporation of the City of London, who contended that the public necessity for the extension was not sufficient to justify the destruction of private property which it would involve. The Learned Counsel pointed out to the Committee that not a single witness had been called to speak to the necessity for the extension, and complained that it would not be fair to grant it upon the evidence of witnesses who were officers of the company promoting the Bill The case was then adjourned till Monday week. MNIFIELD Z-ND EDMEOZITON. This case was then gone into. It was opened by Mr. JAMES, who stated that the object of the Shill was for making a railway of two miles a,ad seven furlongs in #Angth from the Eastern Counties line near Edmonton, to the town of Enfield. The cost was estimated at 36,0001. Mr. 'Waddington, deputy-chairman of the Eastern Counties Company, who resides at En,laid, Captain Owen, a merchant and shipowner, also residing at Enfield, Dr Miller, of Edmonton, and Mr. Winstone, of Enfield, were called, to prove the advantages the. proposed Ike would confer on the neighbourhoods through which it passed. Mr. Borthwick, the engineer of the Northern and Eastern Com pany, proved that the engineering features of the line were highly favourable, while its cost would net exceed 36,000!. The Committee adjourned at tour o'clock till Monday, the Bth of June. Sub-Committee, No. 4. This Committee should have.met to-day at twelve o'clock, but up to three o'clock Mr. Shirley and Mr. Hope Drummond only were in attendance; and a sufficient number of members not arriving to make a Committee, no business was transacted. STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEES. HOUSE OF LORDS. The Committee met to-day at two o'clock. Their Lordships resolved themselves into a Committee on the merits, and declared the preamble of the Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead Railway proved.—Adjourned until after the holidays, for amendments. The preamble of the Rugby and Stamford Railway was also de clared to be proved, but to hear further evidence as to the level crossings. —Their Lordships then adjourned. - - WHITEIIA VEIL AND FURNESS JUNCTION RAILWAY.—SPECIAL MEETING. A special meeting of the proprietors, shareholders, and scripholders took place yesterday, at Guildhall Chambers, Basinghall-streekto consider the propriety of their proceed ing with their Bill in Parliament. Lord Lonsdale took the chair. The SECRETARY read the advertisement convening the meeting and the heads of the Bill which they sought to obtain. The meeting had formerly been twice adjourned for the want of a sufficient number of shares being represented, only 2,7.56 having appeared, but at the present meeting there were 5,829 represented. The whole capital of the line was 17,5001. Resolutions in favour of proceeding with the line were put from the chair, and passed unanimously. The CHAIRMAN observed that the company were pro ceeding with the line na fast as possible. A vote of thanks having been passed to the Chairman, the meeting adjourned. LARNE, BELFAST, AND BALLY MENA RAILW AY.—SPECIAL MEETING. A special meeting of the proprietors, scripholders, and shareholders of this Company took place yesterday at the London Tavern, in pursuance of the sessional orders of both Houses of Parliament; Mr. Spottiawoode in the chair. The SECRETAItY read the advertisement convening the meeting. A strong opposition to the further proceeding with the Bill in Parliament took place, but on a scrutiny it was found that the total number of shares re presented were 2,830, and that 1,980 were in favour of pro ceeding with the Bill, whilst 1,690 were against it, leaving a majority of over 300 in favour of the progress of the Bill. The original length of the line was 45 miles, but in cuisequence of the shares not having been paid up, it was reduced to 14. The Company had spent the 15,000/. paid up, and brought the shareholders 1,500/. in debt. The meeting then separated. LANCASTER AND CARLISLE RAILWAY.—SPECIAL MEETING. A special meeting of this Company was held yesterday at ne Hall of Commerce to consider the propriety of proceeding with their Bill. Henry Howard, of Gray - stock Castle, in the chair. The meeting was merely formal, and resolutions in favour of proceding with the Bill were unanimously carried. COURT CIRCULAR. The following bulletin of the Queen's health was issued yesterday:— "Buckingham Palace, May 28, 1816, "Nine o'clock A.M. " The Queen has passed another good night. " Her Majesty and the infant Princess continue wall. (Signed) "JAMES CLARK, M.D. "CHARLES LOCOCK, M.D. " ROBERT FERGUSON, M.D." Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited her Majesty yesterday. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge called yesterday at Buckingham Palace to inquire after the health of his August Relative. His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horseback yesterday, attended by the Equerry in Wait ing the Hon Captain Gordon. The inquiries after her Majesty's health were again very numerous. Yesterday evening the Queen was going on per fectly well. fiZe; m ac a c ir e i m ng pa y n e i s e t d erd b3 a r y Their Royal Highnesses Prinee Alfred and the Princess o n g w a i g n e r an Lady e h Ly e , t a t r e r l i t a o g n e , t m he orn p i and four. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and the Princess Royal took • a carriage drive in the afternoon. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday - evening at Gloucester House. Mr. Kirk, M.P., had an interview yesterday with Mr. Secretary Gladstone, at the Colonial -office. Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Excise, had an in- Wtervi d es ew da y with the Ch ance ll or of the Exchequer en en. The Commissioners of the Metropolitan Improve , 1 : ad a meeting yesterday, at their Offic e in White- IneTitt• ... • There were present Viscotnt Cannin ,, . c'• ...., sir Lan-place. . Inglis, Sir Charles Lemon, the Lord Mayor, B. H. C . Gore, and Mr. 1 nr flun3pbery, Hon. Al erm, . P r i n ce Ca te In icala was present yesterday ev en i ng at .i the debate in the House of Lords. The Bishop of Jamaica had an inter v i ew w i th Mr. Secretary Gladstone on Wednesday at th e C o l onial office. Colonel Gawler a nd Mr. Robert Gardne r h a d Bight Hon. Gentleman on also interviews with the Wednesday. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has issued invita tions for a full. dress dinner party on the 9th of June, at _ her his residence in Downing-street, in celebration of Majesty's birthday. t t:1