The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

:~"t LI 41% t Lo r -ro j .?1,0 N Set', o' RA I IN A COI I . IITTE ;.-_-S ril3 LA HOUSE OF LORDS. GROUP I. LONDON AND YORE (THE EASTERN COUNTIES). k Ccilinued from our Afternoon Edition.) Mr. Stephenson was examined as to the distances. The London and York, including the loop, was 283 miles. The Eastern Counties Extension was 227 miles. The expense of constructing the London an't York line, would almost construct the London and Birmingham and Grand Junction lines, which were heavy lines, and the York and North Midland lines, which were comparatively light lines. The cost of railway construction was higher now than it was last year. As there was a portion of the line easy and cheap of construction, eight millions , would be a fair estimate for constructing the London and Yort line, according to Mr. Cubitt's plan. The original estimate did not include the miscellaneous expenses, such as law, Parliamentary and surveying ; these expenses would exceed 2,0001. per mile. The cost of constructing the Eastern Counties Extension would be, Including all expenses, be about 3,000,0001. The gradients on the Eastern Counties line were favourable. The gradients on the Cambridge line were almost a level. They were as I In 1,7000, 1 in 1,900, and lin 2,000; with these exceptions it wris a perfect level. The gradients on Mr. Cubitt's line, were as lin 200. Practically speaking, the difference of distance in the two lines would be but little, considering the superiority of the engines of the Eastern Counties. line ovr those which could be had by the London and York lin h e n . t T t h he gradients on the South-Eastern Counties were so favourable that engineers would be able to get over more ground, and the ultimate stann result would be that the difference in distance would be almo line. of hilated. The delays and stoppages which took place on many railway were owing generally to the character of the gradients, and this would he the case with the London and York line. The witness was further examined in chief, at th tn e l c l on n, c e l l u ne si k on to- of which, it being 4 o'clock, the Commi ttee adiourned morrow, when the cross-examination will commence. HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP 11. The Committee met this morning at the usual hour; Viscount Morpeth in the chair. C0UTZ1147.111.1. RAILWAY. The witnesses called this day on behalf of the Bill were :-3lr. ; Mr. Pendarves, M.P. ; Captain Sullivan, Mr. Rodd, IsrelawneY. and Mr. W illiamson , who gave evidence in favour of the line. The Committee then adjourned till Monday next. GROUP X. GARTCASU naariTOlL (Continued from ar Afternoon Edition.) The Committee resumed its siting at three o'clock, with the full lumber of Members as usual, when the remaining portion of the Bill --Caledonian (Glasgow, &c., Branches)—was declared to have been proved. The clauses relating to the Gartcash Branch were gone through spriatim, and agreed to, with the amendments resulting from the previous arragements. The Bill as so amended was passed, and the Committee rose, having gone through all the Bills in the group assigned to it. GROUP XI 11. The Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, Sir Wm. Clay in the chair. The other members present were Earl Jermyn, Mr. P. Ains worth, and Mr. Curteis. CALEDONIAN (LANGHOZZI BRANCH). On the assembling of the Committee, HOPE, in the absence of Mr. Cockburn, who was not present to sum up when called on, and whose Speech was therefore deferred, proceeded to address the Committee against the North British Extension in respect to the junction proposed at the Carlisle central station. If the Com mittee would sanction the junction in question, he hoped they would place his clients, the Lancaster and Carlisle Company, in a very awkward position. That company had already entered into an understanding with three other eompanies for station accommo dation, and were the North British allowed to come in, in addition to those, the public inconvenience would be very great. So many lines crossing at the station, and the influx of passengers, Vronld be so great, as not only to endanger the sate working of the station, but to damage to a great extent the whole arrangements of the Lancaster and Carlisle Com pany: Ws clients thought such a junction unjustifiable, as the public convenience did not require this Hawick line, the whole wants of the etistriet being fully supplied by the great trunk line of the Cale .lonlatt Company. Their opinion was that the Hawick line was not at all required, and they prayed the Committee would not allow the line in question to come into the station, Occasionally an alteration Of the level, depriving the Company with which arrangements had been A lready made in regard to station room, and deranging the whole a zdeg of the Lancaster and Carlisle Company. On these grounds, therefore, he prat ed that, even did the Committee see fit to pass the preamble of the Bill, they would allow the line to come no further at present than the outside of the walls of Carlisle, leaving It to a future cession to loilstate as to the mode in which it should enter the city. eefr. COCKIICIIN then proceeded to sum up the case on behalf of the Caledonian Company. He submitted that no case had teen nuele out to justify the large amount of capital maned by the promoters of the Hawick Company. They preposed to repend Irons 600,0001. to 700,0001., the principal portion of which would have to be spent in that part of the tine between Latighohn end Hawick. Two-thirds of the capital remold be required for that part, against which he submitted that no ease of traffic had been made out. This extent of country was purely an agriceeneral district; little traffic in respect to it had been made out, mid go the cases had been made to depend on the manufacturing c e eeeete e e ifeaeashigle and Hawick. Then, in regard to these, the lereest of "bitch bad Ail 7 A population of 8,000, the necessity of the Lae was urged :a regard Pe the traffic going to the south. With respect to Itaw:e'• it 11144 08Ii4 shown that the whole value of the manufacLa of Haenek, per annum, was about 250,0001., or in weight, 620 tons, of which it had been shown not more than eighty or: ninety tons would find its way to the south. In the case of the Hawici..l"d Edinburgh line of last yedr the great point dwelt on was the inter6l"fee to the north—to Edinlourgh and Glasgow—and not that to the south. Rut even with regard to the small Southern traffic now shown it had been proved that railway accommodation could be had to the south by way of Berwick and Newcastle; and with regard to heavy eemenodities to London, they would still have the steam and exiling vessels from Leith and Berwick. The same principle ill respect to the course of trade appliud to the imports to Hawk): sad lestlashlels. The principal import was wool, for which it was alleged s reilway communication was required in order to get the article from Ltrerpeol. Now, it had been shown tleAt it could be got from ilawicie to London by steam and land conveyance for 22e. a ton ; whereas, being a bulky article, it could not be brought from Liverpool by railway, a distance of 168 miles, for less • than 2d. a ton per mile, making 4es., thus showing a balance is favour of the other route of 20e. a ton. He apprehended with this kind of bulky commodity the water con gee/ice would always be preferred to that of land. Hawiolt and tlatashiels had already eolneannication with Edinburgh and Berwick, and they had the full benefit of the water conveyance from these parts to the various ports of the MOO; Kingdom. Reviewing the whistle manufacturing evidence of traffic, Metre Wes no case made out to warrant such an enormous amount of capital. ny . ; next point of the promoters, and on which they had talj great' etress, was the local traffic along the line, eepeelei/Y expels. On that article alone they bad estimated 24,000 tons to be carted W Hawick for annual consumption, though last year they endeavontel to prove that that place would be supplied in a great measure from Mid-Lothian. The witnesses of his clients, Mr. Wil liamson and Mr. Wood, had proved that the extensive ,zoal-fields of Berwickshire, of which the produce was superior to Beet of Caneuie, would supply Ilawice. in a great measure, and that supplies Weald he bad also from Nortlitunteerland and Mid-Lothian. On this article of mineral, as well as on that of lime, it had been shown that the North British promoters had greatly exageerated their case. The same applied to the alleged traffic in grain Own Beaburgitshire to Dumfriesshire. The reason for this expected tragic wee, that prices were higher in the latter county than in the former; bat it had been subsequently preyed that prices between the two districts were fast assimilating, and that no such trettle as they took credit for could be had on the various heads. The North British took credit for 60,56te, but certainly no ease had been made out warranting such an amount of traffic. The Learned Gentleman then went through the items of passenger traffic, contending that from the evidence of Mr. Piper and Mr. Tither, coach proprietors, of Carlisle, said of Mr. Pare, the traffic taker, no such traffic existed on the line of road As they had taken s,redit for. Not silly had they swept the road of *eery person seen upon the road, but they had in addition assumed that the traffic would be developed to the extent of 150 per cent. more. It wee most unprecedented to sweep the road and then add 160 per tent. ter increase. The proper correctiots, therefore, was two-thirds Mee than that they had taken credit for. Nat only had the various inane of traffic he had referred to been monstrously eXaggerated, but the same applied to the Items of stone, bricks, timber, arc email parcels, on all of which Mr. Pere had, from correct data, made lafge deductions. Ir. l'ase'r calculation were the result of observations made at a fair average time of the year, And they had every ap pearance of being fair and reasonable. With regard to the item of fish, which it was alleged would pass from Dun bar, he never heard a more monstrous assumption. '/Q4' were to bring the that a long journey over the Scotch mountains, as if these was no Rea on the west side of the island, and Liverpool at present had too fresh fish. It was most abaurd to suppose that 2,10 W. would be pro saueed by any such means. Not only was Liverpool to be supplied with fish, bet also with slaughtered meat ; but, at present, at all events, we such traffic existed, nor did he think there would. Bet, supposing even this traffic to arise, it was the legitimate traffic of the Cale donian which was now constructing on the faith of an Act of Parlia iseent obtained last year. But, supposing a case of local traffic eras made out, what was the result in regard to the Caledonian line eareader sanctioned'? It was no longer disguised that they intended tad tae & through competing line with the Caledonian, and to take away the traffic that was expected to come upon that line. He sub- ' muted, whatever might be the view of the Committee in regard to seanting accommodation for local traffic to any place that could Aatte out anything lie* a case of :raffle, that on the grounds of estoity and justice the claims of the Caledonian should be considered. That company was in a position from which they could not recede, as a million of money would not reinstate that Company in its former position, and therefore he did hope the Committee would not grant a direct competing line through to Edinburgh. With regard to the'Nithsdrlieline, the case was made to depend on local traffic, mud he believed the Committee decided it eta last view of the question, but in the present case of the North British there was no disguise ; the object was avowedly to compete through to Edinburgh, against which be hawed his clients would be protected by the decision of the Committee. It hes matter of through traffic was set aside, then he was quite sure no ease of 1411 traffic lied been made out. And then let them look at the char:Wee of the eatintatee. He hadcalled whele,sses to show that 190,000/. more thaii the capital of 660,000/. would be required to complete the line. There was no doubt a conflict of authofity on these points, still it was a aeitter for their grav e d e lib e r a ti on , dig the correctel results were given .by experienced engineers, who e ettek einallar ae were tually en gaged 'flakinga line Assuming that of railway the one estimate Was too 11, , m g 4 the other must be considered too low, and viewin g this in deatlexe with the correctio ns ma d e in the traffic tables—assuming that :.'.etb oldies were exagger a t e d , l et the Committee calmly consider whether there was any case ma d e out to warrantt. line. The Learned Gentleman having thapicilratTrtwaee": _points, proceeded proceeded to compare the portion . of the H te n ne "' holm to Carlisle with the Caledonian aw sch k em rr e om be La ehe same points. The only difference between them was else miles ; and while the Hawick promoters would has e is construct 19 miles of railway, the Caledonian would only have to make 13 miles of new railing. Willie the 214 miles of length was in fa.Vatlr of the Hawick scheme, the g rad i ents on the Caledonian line would more then compen.salte for that difference ; for while the gradients on the f or mer were one in 1 40 for t wo miles, one in 130 for one and d one in 175 for two and a half miles, the iltree-quarter miles. an he latter was one in 150. The difference in heaviest gradient on t ' o peen Lang on-half ess avour o le e hat the of expense would als be holm and Carlisle that the Mau line, The only p oint Langton ; but he would, with Caledonian did not touc h was t a sorrier place in that deference, joy, there was no her ettees:yes dominions — there was not the means of ge t t in g a single dinner in the place. S ir James Graham su bmitted the inn in t;,:e place was shut up. He did not think, therefore, that there was niece , necessity tor railway accommodation fr such a place. lie could well tesderstand how the Duke of Bu ccleuch, through w hose I property lase line ran for 26 miles, and Sir Ja mes Graham, w estate was intersected for 8 miles—he could well understaeid how they supeorted that scheme. It would no doubt be an advantage to them, but he submitted. Hotwith' taild• tug the high character of these proprietors, that the national capital should not he applied without a prospect of remuneration, and to the prejudice of the vested interests of a line that had secured the ' sanction of the Legislature, merely to benefit them in their indi vidual position of great landed proprietors. The Learned Gentleman having amplified further on these points, and ewapitalated the heads of his address, concluded by estifing on the Committee to reject the preatieele of the North British (CarleneEettenidon), and tepee* tea of the Caledonian (Lenghelm Branch). Mr. TALBOT then replied on the part of the "forth British line, sod on behalf of the petitiouing proprietors, the Duke of Buceleuch x.stid Sir James Graham. Ile would, Its the tirA place, deal with the affirmative advantages of the Iti:1 f which he appeared before t , ,e replied to the elequeut statement of his Learael Friend. The preened* of the North British (Carlisle Extension) line set forth that *Teat public serail/ages would result from the paselng of tie: i;iil Pit question. They promised at the opening of the proceedings neat they would establieli a strong case of local traffic, and they had amply redeemed that promise. They had showa that the district to be seerenmedated was a rich agricul tural and pastoral district, which was, ln reta,rd to the woollen tra le, the West Riding et ecotland--a district, moreover, which as yet had meither canal nor railway accommodation. It had, he seekettled, teett proved that the trade of the district was very great, and tnal , die only thing that interfered with the ample development of the &aria was to elleap and abundant supply of coal, 'which 'at preseiete could not be had in the manner and at the price desirable. By the railways already sanctioned aw ickhad been pLiced on the apex of a triangle, in regare to ace j O i m deli It was on the poi nt of tragic conflttenee of the two lines sanctioner; e leorn Edinburgh and Berwick last year. This clearly showed that this was the natural course of traffic, and .ell ticket was required now wee gee outlet to the south, to accommodate the Mineral and aujenunill produce of the district. As tar as ,e , e ,i dewo had been taken, it h ad been .howil that at ' testa otie'atee4 of sh e ege kesi i esral produce went west ai7l south, awl re.- quired the present L cest of railway accommodation, The proof was clear that the produCP of Roxburghshire went in large tin s :' titles to Dumfriesshire, and that at least 3,300 tons of grain went - ' , tom the former to the latter county for seed and for other purposes. 2t hal also been shown that cattle ud sheep were fattened largely in Roxburghshire, and that they absolutely required a s - ,uthern rail way accommodation like the present line. They had called the best « amiss in Scotland or; the subject, Mr. Scott, who de posed that he sent south to Liverpool and Laiicashire generaiiy Pout 4,000 fat sheep yearly, besides a large quantity sent from East Lothian, ria Glas..;ew to Liven - cwt. It had also been proved that there would he large traffic lean cattle and sheep that would Pass along the line, arising from the large fairs held in the ootinty of Roxburgh. The evidence of air. secitt on this head wits fortified by the evidence of Sir. Nelson, who Lad been actually examine.' en a similar point the year before he the CaledoutanCempaey. Ito was, therefore, an unimpeachable authority. Me (Mr. Talbot) had now dealt with the agricultural exports, and he would now briefly call their attention to tkelquestion of imports in Order to effect improvements in the cultivation of land. The area of Country around Hawick required tiles, or, at least, clay, to make them of, and coals by which to burn them ; and these would lie sup plied in large quantities, and at a cheap rate, from Canob ie. lies also necessary to have railway connexion in order to obtai h n e s n u of guano and other manure, from the adjoining ports. T regard to the southern limb of the scheme, they had strongly in fa - the Duke of Buccleuch and Sir J. Graham, who spoke the evident your of the line as a means T r a i t ts of the agriculturists of that the those of a agricultural features of the scheme ; now for that the quantity of foreign manu facturing character. It had been proved . part of theofeousnutprpyl.yinSgo tmheuchdet awick, and, also that a large trade was ca m ur p e e rs ti . tior t shhnodrt been wool:especially wool from New York, was incre e a d sin on g t evr ina s i e n a n r a a o ! direct routes were indispensable for ria d tured goods with Landon . In these dayasneuffaeect shown by Mr. Locke. the Tweed fo r r aper, that . no litre of communication would be advisable . the district, unless it connected it in a direct manner with Liverpool and Manchester. It was therefore absurd, and out of all character, that the inhabitants of the district should be sent thirty or forty miles round, by way of Berwick. Again, it had been proved that in Gala.shiels and Hawick the water-power was almost taken up, and that a cheap and abun dant supply of coal was necessary, in order to apply steam as a motive power ; and it had been further shown that the supply of e this mineral could be best had from the Canobie coal-field. Such was the outline of the case for the line, presenting a case of strong local want for the line in question. One remarkable fact in their case was, that of the 42 miles in extent, they had on 37 miles of it the assent of the landed proprietors, while on the whole they had but a single mile of dissents. The Learned Gentleman hav ing dwelt on the points of the case as developed in evidence, went on to reply to the observations made on behalf of the Caledonian Corn , patty, by Mr. Cockburn. With regard to the Caledonian line, he must say that it was useless to the district through which the Hawick line passed, and it would be worse than useless if it were to protected, during all time future, from any line passing from &Aisle to Hawick. He submitted the Caledonian had no standing before the Committee, and had only sneaked in by their proposition of the Langholm branch. In doing this they submitted the principle of the Hawick line, though they stopped shut of giving that accommodation to the district which it required. Beyond the portion of the Hawick line that competed with their Langholm branch, they had no locus itandi, and had no right to appear against the twenty miles from Langholm to Hawick. He repudiated the notion of the Caledonian line talking of vested rights. Ile hoped the day had gone by when vested rights, except in well-established cases, and not on such as the Caledonian had submitted, had gone by, ant tint the pub to int eree: a were to 14 acrificed to the se!ti.sh policy of a grasping company. The Learned Gentleman then went over the various points adduced in support of the Caledonian. He denied that the present line was put forward as a competing line with that, though he did not deny but that some parties might come along this one, in preference to the other. But the whole through traffic was estimated at about 21,0001., and the utmost that might be taken from it could not he [more than 4,0001. or 5,0001.:; yet on tee bare contingency of that they were led to believe that the Caledonian was a Company that could be extinguished by the slightest blow. Then they were assailed that the North British Company would not have enough of traffic to support their line, but he submitted that was ne business of the Chairman and directors of the Caledonian Company, though he admitted it was a subject for the consideration of the Committee. His clients had produced along the route of the line witnesses who knew the wants of the district well, while those called on the other side, with the exception of that notable member of the fourth estate, Mr. Steele, who had all along been a partisan of the Caledonian, had no local connexion with the district whatever. He submitted: that manufacturers and agriculturists, who knew all about the district and mineral agents, residing at Canobie, were witnesses more to be relied on than Mr. Pare, who had been employed to get up a case, and the other parties, who had merely run over the district once or twice, and who had no knowledge of the real wants and traffic of the country with respect to the Canobie coal-field. Evidence had been clearly given to show that there were ten seams of coal, of which 'but three were now working ; that the supply was most ample ; that so far from coals from Berwick supplanting Canobie coal at Hawick, it was more likely that Canobie coal would g., to Berwick, en account of tht superiority of tire article. All the Com mittee could de on this point was to compare the one evidence with the other, and judge between them. On the passenger traffic it was a remarkable fact, that where these estimates could be corrected by way bills, It was found to agree in the main with the other side, as shown in the evidence . of that euphoneous pair, Messrs. Piper and Tyther : and it was only when the romantic calculations of Mr. Pare were introduced that a discrepancy was made out. On the engi neering differences in the estimates he would set the established character of Mr. Miller against the evidence on the ether side, with the high observation that Mr. Locke in his original esti mate set down the Caledonian line at, 2,100,000/. Taking away 130,000/. for plant, and dividing the remainder of the number 'of miles, the! amount per mile would show actually less than .the estimate of Mr. Stiller. This would show how the matter stood In tween the rival engineers, and how much this alleged discrepancy was worth. The Learned Gentleman then addressed himself to the Langholm branch and the junction at the station, showing with reference to the evidence of Sir J.Graliam, that the line ought to run upon the south hank of the Esk, and that with respect to the junction at Carlisle, the promoters of the Bill were willing to leave the matter to the adjudication of the Board of Trade. The Learned Gentleman Concluded by strongly impressing on the mind of the Committee the necessity of passing the preamble of the Bill. The room was then cleared for a division. IMPORTANT DECISION. After an absence of about half an hour the parties were called in, when The CRAIRMAN said the decision of the Committee was, that the preamble of the Bill ofhe Laugh°lm branch of the Caledonian Rail way had not been ;p. oved; also that the preamble of the North British (Carlisle Extension) had not been proved. They, however, reserved that portion of the North Itritish preamble that related to the small branch to the Canobie coal-fleid, so as to ascerta'n whether by the forms of the House they could retain it, so as to form a junc tion with the branch of the Dumfries line. Practically, howcver, the decision was the rejection of both schemes at present before the Com mittee. The consideration of the Candbie Branch and the clauses of the Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle were adjourned till Monday week. GROUP XVII, B.OIKSZT AND REDISILIDGE BRANCH. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition.) Mr. C. gamin, the traffic manager of the Great Western, was then examined. He said when the traffic bills were printed, he Invariably examined them. He had a copy of the passenger tables issued about the Ist of January, 1841. He was not sure whether the line was opened to Northern or Southampton at that period ; but the distance between London and Southampton, as stated in the bills of that perked, was seventy-six miles and three-quarters, hut the goods traffic distance seventy-six miles. Minchtleid was looked upon as half-way between Southampton and London, and was considered thirty-eight miles trom Southampton, The time bills were published about every month, and little variation was made In them, except in May and in the fall of the year. He could undertake to ' say that no chsnge took place in the bills between May and September 1844. By the May bill of that year, the dis tance was set down as seventy-seven miles and a quarter, and the distance froth Southampton to Winchfield was thirty-nine miles, or from Southampton to London seventy-seven miles and a quarter. By the bills of January and March, 1445, the distance charged for passengers between Southampton was forty miles, and fur !foods thirty-nine. The abatement for carrying twenty tons for forty raer, was thirty per cent., and for thirty-nine 20 per cent., making a ditterenee of 10 per cent. They were entitled to charge for forty miles, if the distance was a fraction over thirty-nine. Nothing, however, was gained by this, as it had nothing to do with the charges. The line was, linweaer, re-sun - tat last year, and this seeming discrepancy was rectified, and the fates lb* Lotb passengers and goods were only charged for the net distance. Mr. Davia—Then the passengers by the Parliamentary train should pay Id. more than they 0, and the Company gain 10 per cent, by having charged 40 miles for passengers, and only 39 for goods? The witness said under the old time Bill referred to by Mr. Davis that was actually the ease on the face of if, hut the Company really derived no advantage from it. betweenT o 'hichtield. and Southampton. Coals taken from the wharf at Nine Elins to Southampton Isere conveyed at 2%d. a ton, but 3d. a ton was charged froth Southampton. Examined by Mr. IlaarsaitTow—The distance in 1845 was found to be 78. The heavy traffic of all kinds did net exceed five tons a week between Winehfield and Southampton. The charges for eon veying coala were regulated by the large quantity sent from Lotian, and the small quantity sent from Southampton. The arrangement made with the Dagk proprietors at Southampton was made for the purpose of imprOving the trade of Southampton. But an alteration had been made which equalise4 MP expense to Its. Spy at both docks and pier ; but the carriage of goods to till (ruin the ,-,y! . 1.3 2s. 6d. more than the docks. John Davis Fe : !;..xamined—The charge of carrying 10 tons from Southampton to Wifidfici4 WAS formed, 2/. 16s. after deducting the " rebate" of 30 per cent., btlerklW 41, 14s. 2d. was charged, thus in creasing the expense to 18s. 2d. A.fier a few ebservotions from Mr. Davis, the ease of t 14,1 2 1 ,3pPnents of the BI ;,1 vas closed. . . MANCHUS-TIM AND SOUTHAMPTON. The formal proofs in this were then adduced, and the Com mittee adjourned till Thursday next, at twelve o'clock ; when Mr. s t siLpant Wrangham will open the case of the proMaM, 9ROLTP XVIII. EXETER. ANT! %VX67:ZIAN RAILWAY. B. Denison, chairman. J. Jones. Esq., vice-president of the Charter GI CIOTHROTCe, Guern sey, was examined on behalf of the Great Western Company, hpt his evidence was not of a nature even to benefit the South-Western Company. The principal parts of his evidence went to show the convenience of a railway from Weymouth to the northern, western, and eastern parts of the country. lit cross.examination, however, he admitted that all the railways were at present constructed limn which he could derive any advantage. Captain White, commander a steam-vessel between ilouthamptou and Jersey, proved the superiority of Weymouth over Portsmouth as a hathoUr for the trade ot the Channel Islands. 11r. Devenish was next examined—ln the course of his examina tion, however, The CHAIRMAN stated that his evidence, in his opinion, went as much in favour of the Exeter and Yeovil Company as for the Great Western. Mr. Cullen and Mr. Fox were also called on behalf of the Sunlit: Western Company. At the conclusion of the last witness's examination, the CHAIRMAN ordered the room to be cleared. On the parties being re-admitted, the CustausN announced that the Committee had desired him to intimate to the parties that they should endeavour to ascertain whether it would not ite practiCable to Aanstruct the line between Exeter and Yeovil , in such a manner, that it m ight amt both gauges. They wished it at the same time to be dia. tinctly understiscd that the opinion of the Committee was not to be considered as favourable either one scheme or other. The Committee then adjourned :II; Monday week. GROUP XXVIII *!lect Committee on this group met this morning in Rooni Sa ; Lord DatraL47 in the chair. LOZDON AND TOM (ST. ALBANS. DUN- E rr2,.'9l 4 Z, AND LIIWON BRANCH). Wet.t.s. on the tint of the promoters, proce.Aeci with the exa mination or witnesses. Mr. Deetwtsost, on the pert of the London and Birmingham (St. Alban's and Luton), honors woes-examining the first witness (a farmer at Harpenden), wtsPect tp s oiseest to the Committee that, in truth, these were not Competin g ti nes. #t w a great point raised oa the part of tha London and York, th at as thin hue did not give any accommodation to MI northern part or I, H t twit gr to Harpenden. Now he, Mr I I ore, did not pretend that this Mite WAi};d accommodate either of these places ; and, indeed, be did not to ew i to cross-examine any of the Luton witnesses in future. He sub. mitteti that these two Might to proceed Independently of each other. . _ Mr.W zu.s having replied, and Mfr. , MIA 4/Pln rejoined, The Committee ordered the room to be cleared. St. Aiumes mmittee are of opinion that . he I.,qiidn it Do our return, and Birmingham, Luton, and the London and York; S ' t. 7 A h lia C an's, Luton and Dunstable , are competing lines; and have O 11/IRMAN said the CO . resolved that they be tre v a r t h e Q d ee tlt e a d with the cross-examination of Mr. othero Mr. DENNISON - then n • la -- fay the our of the Sibley. Ilarpenden ; Mr. Mr. Ilowse, of Wheathamstead I Mr. L Rogers, of Dunstable ; and air. sue of Wingrove, of Luton, the two first being farmers, 3lv * I tV , an 4 Alr, straw-plat manufacturers, gave general evidenee ' London and York Luton Branch. On Mr. Dviit;f2o. rising to cross-examine Mr. Lewin, Mr. WALLS requested tx) Wallowed to ask a question of his L Friend. Ile wished to know area it wgs that his Learned Learned 'Soon had forgotten the good lution lie kid awle i n the -:.: so part of the morning, not to cross-examine any of the 1 , 41.0 ,,f,??' nesse' ? It was hardly fair for his Idend to take this cou ri . 4 7 la; did implied promise contained in his assertion that lie did not lee., to cross-ex4inine any Luton witnesses. Mr. De:cm:tort wirbed to !mow whether much time would be saved by his friend being allowed L; loss-examine him 1 Ile proceeded with the cross-examination of the witiizsCer , ivisral other witness from St. Alban's and ',taw. eige then called, # l 'd V.1.-ye genera , evidence as to the straw-plat, coal, and &ilex tia4.::; of those plec.,es. This class of evlateriee pecitpied the whole of the remag part of the day, and at about twenty minutes past four o'clock the Com mittee.adjourned till Thursday, the tith of Jr,ne, when they will meet et twelVe o'clock. The engineeriug evidence enti 84 1 49 AT. 4 1 4 1 blisl - will then be proceeded with. GROUP XXIX. ELY LLND BURT. (Crigtkined from our Afternoon Edition.) Mr. H. C. T.acey, Chairman Lf the Ely and Bury Company, and chat' man of the Huntingdon Company; as 3vpll as a director of the South Western Company, stated that the project Was 'hit CA):1,K1 , 04 in 1544, and would have been brought sooner before Parliament, but for ALP illness of Mr. Buck, the engineer. The object of his evidence was to show that this being a branch line, the establishment of a staff fur iiiiinagemen i t, would answer for other lines as well as this, and the eipeiise' therefore, be economised. The Learned Counsel tAi,eu went through a detail of the Piipttlation o - the line, the villages SloNving 414 aggregate bf upwards Of 1 i,d6o, • ekclusive or thy country be.Avee S9wbanr and Ely. The differenee•hetWeen this Wagth e( the two lines J 8 t;Vo miles on one line thig-:--the•rulirrg "•ot tir 44, but on the other kineit Is '1 hi 132. Ships of'4oo 'tons •••• Lvtui, LA, ai,e *At** so not a slilpowner , but he • ¢ram... can come up t.. belivvedthat such 18 tug ,..... On cross-examination, it appeared that the objects of the line is to place Ipswich in cumpetith it with Lynn. with.ss replied, that there is a lline, b a . pr je:tor connecting uni and Ely. I t 'o if h e the ( t Mr. Ellington• ' , s tat •d in reply to Mr. DANIELL, that about C,OOO Counties e quarters are malted in Dory, for which there is at pees! iit not styli cient carriage. This line would afford accommodati o n a i r w hi c h there is no present faedity, especially as regard s Mild enha ll , con nexluit with London is now so precluded that the Inhabitants of that district crnnot enter into time bargains. To Mr. 13011.THWieg — The witness replied that the line now pro jected would require no extra expense to get to London. Mr. S. Webb, of Mildenhall, a limeburner and brickmaiker for thirty years there, stated that the Hine they made was obtained from the limestone in the neighbourhood. The railway would make a difference of ss. 6d. a ton at Bury, and of Os. 6d. at Stow market. There would be no accommodation by the other line, and the saving would be only 104. at Tilford. The difference would be only Id. or 24. a bushel between the two lines. Mr. Kerling, the steward of Sir H. Bunbury, who has more than 8,000 acres at Mildenhall, where the sessions are held. In the neigh bourhood there are extensive gravel pits, the extracts of which are largely used in the repair of the few roads, and if this line were es tablished, the cost of carriage would be reduced Bs. a ton. Mr. Gwilt, an extensive landowner on the line, testified to the quantity of gravel which is obtained for the improvement of the roads of the neighbourhood. Mr. Robinson, vestry clerk of Mlldenhall, gave evidence to the same effect. Mr. B. Jennings, of Bury St. Edmund's (which is one of the largest seed markets In England, and the largest corn market in Suffolk), stated that from the 9th April, 1145, to Ist Apt il, 1846, there were 162,000 quarters of corn sold ; and of seeds there are between 3,000 and 4,0410 tons sold every year. The line Is of vital import ance, for should this railway not be made, the inhabitants of fury would become the servants of the merchants at Lynn and Ipswich. Mr. O'MALLLY appeared for the Corporation of Bury, and put In an interlocutory as the line aft cted Bury. Mr. Croft, an auctioneer and surveyor, stated that the line would intersect the town, and that the distance to the Marsh Gate was 567 yards, and generally testified as to the difference of the advantages of the two lines with respect to Bury, especially with respect to the cattle market and Brook-street. A conversation ensued with respect to the communication with Newmarket, but it led to nothing, and the Committee adjourned till Monday week at one o'clock. GitOUP XXXII. The Committee met this day at two o'clock, Mr. J. E. Dennison in the chair. OXFORD, WORCESTER, AND NVOLVER NAIVIPTON BRANCHES). Mr. SELF, for the ironmasters of the district near Dudley, stated that what they principally objected to in the matters of tolls was the six miles clause, which gave the company power to charge for one mile as for six miles, and the per centage clause, which allowed the Company to charge 2F per cent. more when the carriage was under 23 miles. They wist, ed in the one case a two mile clause. Witnesses were called to give evidence on the subject of tolls. After considerable discussion, Mr. COCKBURN offered for the Company a 4 mile clause, but this was rejected. The room was then cleared. On re-admission parties were told that the determination of the Committee on the 6 mile clause was that that clause should be left undisturbed on the main line, but in reference to the side line the Committee were prepared to recommend, alter what had passed, that not a four mile but a three mile clause should be adopted. Some debate afterwards arose concerning saving clauses, as to the interests of the Warwick and Birmingham Canal. But the Committee seeing they could not go through all the clauses to night, adjourned at half-past five o'clock to eleven o'clock to morrow. GROUP LIII. SHROPSHIRE UNION AND CANAL (CHES TER TO 'WOLVERHAMPTON. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition.) Mr. Stec, the manager of the canal, proposed to be converted into a canal, was called to prove its failure since the eonstructi , n of rail ways in the district. The witness having undergone a lengthy cross-examination, The Committee adjourned until twelve o'clock on Monday, the Bth of June. GROUP LIB", COVENTRY, NUNEATON. BIRMINGHAM, AND LEICESTEIL. The thrther investigation of this scheme was proceeded with this morning by the Committee, who did not assemble till one hour after their usual time of meeting. Mr. Ellison, a civil engineer, was the first witness called, and corroborated the engineering evidence that was given before the Committee yesterday. Mr. Hairs, of Leicester, deposed as to the value of the land that would be required for the purposes of the railway, and stated that the cost of the land would not exceed the amount set down in the estimate. With the last witness, the case for the promoters was finisla.d. Mr. CALVEAT, on behalf of the promoters, said that he had to state to the Committee that he proposed to amend the preamble by with drawing that portion of that portion of the line which was net in eluded in the commtuncation between Nuneaton and Wigston. The t;,rmel proofs of assents and dissents were then put in. Mr. M. I). HILL, on the part of severel landowners on the line, wished to propose some alterations in the clauses, and to introduce Clew clauses ; and a discussion ensued, which occupied the attention of the Committee till tke hour of rising. MARKET INTELLIGENCE. (From the London New Price Current of May 29.) SvcAn.—To-day buyers of West Indian Sugar were induced to operate with more freedom in consecuence of merchants again sub mitting to rather lower rates, and a gool business was transacted, but chiefly by the refiners, the quantity sold amonnting to 650 bids. ItErnsEn.—To-day prices underwent no alteration for Refined Goods, but the home trade operated with caution. In bonded Crushed Sugar a large business has bean transacted, and 325. per cwt is the value of first quality with a firm market. Mararrics —This afternoon importers of Mauritius Sugar were disposed to sell, and offered 9,286 ba_s 30 casks at public sale, the whole sold, but the rates taken were in some cases rather under those that previously prevailed. EAST Irsoia.--For white and yellow Bengal rather lower rates having been taken, has occasioned the demand to be good, and pri vately several parcels have been disposed of. The genuine Dolesll sorts are held for 50s to &s, but there has been only a limited busi ness transacted by private treaty this week. Of Madras there being little in the market, prices remain much the same as previously quoted, but few purchases have been made privately, and none has been offered at auction. Of Foreign East India prices still rule above those of other descriptions of Sugar admissible for home consumption. FOREIGN.—There has generally been more activity in the market for Foreign Sugar this week, but at present little improvement has taken place in prices. COFFEE.—This afternoon Plantation chiefly sold, bt holders were compelled to take previous reduced prices. Mocha is neglected, and 378 bales 252 half bales were all taken in—middling at 545, good mid ling green long bean 58s, good Gas, bold triage 425, black 12s, Gd a 14s 5, and good pea berry Gss per cwt, being about the former value. MOLASSES.—AII kinds of West India have been much in demand, and advanced rates are again paid. Bengal Treacle has been In good request, and prices are stil rising. Honey of common quality is still much in demand, and fetches full rates. COCOA—holders of British Plantation evince firmness, and still refrain from offering any at auction, purchases to a fair extent have been made privately, and full rates are given. TEA.— Prices of the inferior sorts of Congou are rather higher than they were in 1845 at this time; but the better kinds are lower by 11- , ,,d to 2 , X t d ; Twankay of all sorts by ld to 5d ; Ilyson 5d to Is. Imperial Gunpowder by 4d to s per lb. RICE.—To-day Bengal Rice met with little attention, and 3087 bags, 500 pockets at auction were only in part sold at barely funnel* rates. SPlCES,—Although prices rule for low black Pepper, still the de wand privately has been limited from exporters and the home trade this week. The Stock and arrivals are much under those of last year, and prices are as low as they were at that time. There is still a large supply of Nutmegs, and the demand being limited, the prices taken exhibit a small decline ou those previously quoted. SPIRITi.—An increased damand has prevailed for Leeward Island Runs this week, and buyers have been compelled to pay a further advance in prices. Calcutta has been in much better demand. and stiffer rates ere paid. Jamaica has been purchased with more free dom, upon former terms. Demerrra has been in good demand, and brought better prices. The Brandy market has a very dull appear ance, and prices are nearly nominal. COURSE OF EXCHANGE.--(THIS DAY) Amsterdam .... —C.F. 12 10!,, Gibraltar Ditto, at sight • ..... 12 7)4 Leghorn Itottcrdam ...... 2U. 12 11 Genoa • ... 26 15 Antwerp . • . Hamburgh .... • • 31.8. 13 15% Venice........ Altona.• ........ • • .... Naples .............. 391,4 Paris, 3 days' sight .... 25 85 Palermo, per 0z.... 119 Ditto, 3 months 26 10 Lisbon. ... 52% Marseilles •••••• • • .. • • 26 15 Oporto • • • 52% Bourdeaux. Frankfort on Maine.... 123 Bahia . Petersburgh, 3 U 5.... Buenos lyres ........ ......... •• • • New York, 21 days' sight Vienna, effec. flo ••• • • • 10 11 Philadelphia Trieste, ditto.... • • .... 10 12 PRICIS OF BULLION, PER oz. Uc t li id • , ,• • 36 Foreign Gold in bars...£3 17 9 Cadiz • • ..• ..... 36 Portugal Gold Coin .. 3 17 5 Bilbao. • — New Doubloons ...... 0 0 0 Barcelona .• ••........ Seville.. • ..... ........ 1 , New Dollars Silver in bars • . 0 4 11 THE LONDON GAZETTE. (THIS EVENING.) FOREIGN•OFFICE, MAY 27, 1846. The Queen has been graciously pleased to appoint the Hon. Charles Augustus Milicah riaw F.CCretary to her Majesty's Legation at Naples, to he her Majesty's Agent Awl Consul-General in Egypt. The Queen has also been graciously Pleascci to appoint Lord Napier, now First Paid Attache to her Majesty's Embassy at Constantinople, to be Secretary to her Majesty's Legation at Naples. DOWNING-STREET, MAY 29. The qqegn has heel} pleased to appoint Thomas Frederick Elliot, Charles Aleipinder and Precieriel.t Rogers, Esqrs. to be Coin missioners for wpgvintMdillg the salePi/ sPiileillent of the waste lands o' the Crown to MO PPlonieS, and the conveyance of emigrate thither. C om m m ill i t s i s a i_on c lai pt t . he Q E. u S e . en Simith to be Adjutant, Royal Westmorland Vice fiPOnet. YPtire4 4WD full pay, may 7. panniissions by the Lord Lieutenant of Northamptonshire. The Earl oft Ps*PP, to 4o PePto tkip 3 41rquii of Chandos, to ha Deputy Lieutenant; the Earl pt Pomfret, to bp De puty Lieutenant ; the Baron Henley, to he Dej,ut; Lieutenant; the lion. Richard ,Watson, to be Deputy Lieutenant; William Bruce Stopford, Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant ; William Cartwright, Esti , to be Deputy Lieutenant; 14inuld linightley, Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant ; John Alichael Seyerne, Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant ; Richard Aubrey Cartwright, Eat., to be Deputy-Lieutenglit ; William Willes,..Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant; George Nyllo, Esq.. to he Deputy-Lieutenant; William Smyth, Esq,, to be DoputpLientenant ; Henry Neville, Esq.. to be Deputy-Lieutdnant. -Northamptonshire Regiment of Militia. —ll It. Fletcher, Gent. to be'1441.0, May 21 ; (1. J. Gates, Gent., to be Ensign and Surgeon's Mate, May Commission by the Lord-Lieutenant of thp F t r Wohnorland Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry Cavalry—M. 11 ttarrt son, Gent., to be Cornet, vice Robinson, resigned, Jan. 20. 1845. Commissions by the Lord-Lieutenant of Itenfrewshire. Rentrewsbire Regiment of Militia—T. Crawfor, Gent., to be I , f9y 4, • 4.ye, gent., tp be Lieutenant, May 21; J. Morris, Gant, tp I,M 4 1 15iFq ! 44y Ip ; C. Is. S. )0•1141.n, Oapt. tp be Ensign, May 21, Commissions by the lAT4Liptcp4pt of suffolk. First Troop of Suffolk Yeomanry Cavaley— V. Nal:atone, Gent., to be Lieutenant, vice the Earl of Euston, resigned, May 22 ; F. M. Wusos ( - mit , t i be Comet, vice Iluddlestone, promoted, May 22. Pfitif PPXY SiTPE ttSEDED. James Hishto4 f eoltqnlpinner, yalp lioddlesden , Francis Rolfe, tailor, Great Marltorolan-S , Foe+, to Wrender, June 6, at one, and July 10, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. 4!iager, official assignee, Birchin-lane ; Messrs. A'Beckett, Golden square. . . . IV:114111 Darrihrongh, teller, Ittchmorul, Surrey, June 5, at half past ten, and July a; at twelve. at file Copt, of ltallPtipleY• Becher, official assignee ; Mesere. Kinder and Sorrell, Jwery,street, Ahigate. John Boyd and James Boyd, at two, and Julylo, at eleven, at the Court of, Bankruptcy. Graham, • official assignee , Coleman - street ; Philips, size-lane. 11 4 11) Merchants, Sonthwark, June 15, willikini Lock.s, timber merchant, Lombard-street, Curtain-road, at half-past two, and July 10, at twelve, at the g o Urt 4l of ieh li i. 4 4l4 4l l l4 6 4. pr,Skotit, official assignee, Abchurch•lane, Lombard-street i Tayi,or, Mporgate-atreo i 00. Charles Frederick Ellen - ill/a, eonitnission ifh.;relptn i l, Pillipol-lane, City, June 12, at t w o, and J u ly 10, a t h a lf- pact eleve n , at the Court of Bankruptcy. Edwards, official assignee, Fre crick's-place, Old Jewry ; Amory, Sewell, and Moores, Throginorton-street. pA,rio Freonfan, grocer, Croydon, June 5, at eleven, and July 11, at one, at t 9 O1)41; of pan i rnptoy. Gr ee n, o ffi c i a l ass i gnee, Alder lnallinlrY : Allan ap4 1. 1. 91 ? 4ucent4li:Vit,./.:h;400e• • Thomas Jeffries, vietualler, UeryetwYlif, C61 , 4 1 ; 11 3 1 , J4ll O 9 , and July 7, at one, a t the 14 . 114.1 District Conn. Miller, Official assignee, Bristol; Harrison, Birmingham; Chaplin, Grays-lnn-square, Lond.•ii Marta Bird, milliner, Cheltenham, June 11 and• July 9, at one, m ilia 4ristol District Court. Aerasaan, official assignee, Bristol; Win terb'oit' Ant, c0e.44,01;a:n. Robert Davies, drake, Ahhey Tialeq, Zlontimthshire, June 12, at one, and July 10, ao eleven, at theltristiil Distilet Court. Button, official assignee, Bristol ; Bevans, Bristol. George Samuel Coxwell and William Croser, merchants, New cr4lie:.,,pen-Tytte, June 5, at half-past ten, and July 9, at one, at ih . , : , '' - ,r_ttvpit:st/e-upopiTytte Dlitrlet Court. Wakley, official ass:gnee, Nev.. , ~ic,,c)eu-Tyfur; lisnpti,' : , .•e 4 , , ,ipaatite ; ;upen•Tyne ; Capes and es"' lnn, LondOn '' . •:t , ,-• . . .„ • Gray's • Baldock, grocer, Nottingham, June 16, and July 14, at ,st ten, at the Birmingham District Court. Christie, official half-past - t lam ; Browne, Nottingham. Bittn lig i aBs il ig i l l ' i c hi% '1 ite, tailor, Ta.vistock, Devonshire, June 10, and July 1, '''""" - IS '1 Exeter Court of Bankruptcy. Ilernaman, official , at the at tipy - pm , ,A.,...5t00;4), k% stet j paw, 4:zee:. tics - ignite, t' , 4 l 'l h fi,,„ d , Erewer l 41 . . Prfitigif; r lYilt3iiife, June 11, liche wlail " 'Lie 10 at twelve, at the Bristol District Court. StVintiimn Bristolassignee,, • Bennett and Paul, Sise-lane, London, Hutton, o merchant, Kingston-upon-Hull, June to and cons • Thomas Sager, C---1 ,, t the Kingston-upon-Hull District Court. J u ly 1, at eleven , " 0 , null; Hicks, Gray's Inn, London; Ky nail:4i, c`,ll,:le! as" • at eleven, Itoldeti and ii ii; )(u.lt: PRICE OF SUGAR. ' • 1 f-311.4stiAvado Sugar, the pre. bvill 0 The average price of Br ... . officialdi a's—sigi' ' duce of the British possessions in America, computed from the returns made in the week ending May 26, 1846, is 355. 9 1 / L.d. per cwt. IMPERIAL VARLIAMENT. (THIS EVENING.) HOUt4E OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the chair at POUT o'clock. GREAT LEINSTER AND MUNSTER RAILWAY. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to he com mitted. WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAIL WAY (AIETHLEY, ASKERN, AND OAKENSHA W BRANCHES.) On the motion for the third reading of this Bill Mr. M. AIILNES opposed it, because the great majority of his constituents had expressed their disapprobation of the Bill owing to the promoters having sought to take away ten acres from the race-course at Pontefract. Mr. BERNAL said that the Company proposed to take away four acres of the waste part of the course, and to indem nify the inhabitants by giving them ten acres of superior land. A discussion was about to ensue, when Lord G. SOMER. SET moved the adjournment of the third reading until Mon day week. The motion was agreed to. STAINES AND HICEIMOND RAILWAY. Colorel THOMAS WOOD moved that this Bill be re. committed to the Committee on Group 20. Mr. SOTHERON. the chairn an of the Committee, sa;d that when this Bill was before the Committee, the solicitor to the Woods and Forests came before tlem with two eluuses ; the first gave the assent of the Crown to the Bill, and the second contained conditio ns w hi c h it was impossible for the parties to fulfil without exceeding their esti mates, and deviating from their levels. The Committee tharefore threw out the Bill. O n th e 4 t h o f M ay th e part ies came before the Committee and stated that the Commissioners of Woods and Forests were ready to accede to conditions which the promoters could adopt without infringing their estimate or al. tering theirlevels, and they, therefore, wished the case re-opened. The Committee, however, refused to accede to their request, but stated that they would make a special report to the House. In this case thousands of pounds might have been saved to the promoters of this Bill if the Commissioners of NVoods and Forests could have made up their minds before the 20th of March or the 29th of April, instead of the 9th of May. Would such a course be a just thing to either the promoters or the opponents of the Bill? Supposing they allowed justice to those parties who opposed th e Bill , an d who, h av i ng overcome all_ object ions, the promoters would b e i n j ure d, an d supposing that they allowed justice to the parties promoting the Bill, what was the condition of those - opposing the Bill. By recommitting this Bill, they would do great injustice. He wished the House to consider whether it was right to allow parties to make such an application to the House ? He wished to ascertain what was the intention of the House with reference to this subject ? After a few words from Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET, Mr. BA RCLAY, and Mr. ESTCOURT, which did not reach the gallery, Mr. WA KLEY said, that if in this case the House should decide against the re-committal of this Bill, he must say that it would be the most unjust decision it had ever come to— ( Hear, hear) —and that was saying a great deal.—Hear, hear. and laughter.) Would the House for one moment attend to him whilst he stated the facts of the case. What was the case ? That parties promoting the formation of a railroad from Richmond to Staines, ten miles, went before the Com mittee of their House, and after being before that Com mittee a few days, or a certa i n l engt h o f t i me, t h e Committee gave in their report. And what was the report ? That the consent of the Commissioners of the Woods and Forests was tendered, and that the surveyor of the promoters of the Bill in his examination, stated that he was prepared to make a line in conformity with the recommenda tion, when it became analogous that the promoters could not form such a line, as it must be contrary to the plans laid down and deposited in the Board of Tral.e. The Committee there upon closed their proceedings on the Bill without hearing the whole of the evidence in favour of it. It would appear that this matter had been considered ; but he must say that it had not rightly been decided upon by the Woods and Forests. To this he had no objection, but it be came a material question when the public convenience was concerned. Cries of " Order, order.") There might be an outcry, but still he must assert, that if this were a question of 40, 50, or 70 miles of railway, there might be a matter for consideration; but he must assert that the case of the promoters had not been properly heard, and when the question was whether ten miles or railway should be made, at an expense of 150,0001 , or whether a Bill should be oteained without any reference to public convenience, he thought that the necessities of 150,000 people had not been sufficiently attended to. Mr. BERNAL thought that great negligence had been exhibited on the part of the Commissioners of the Woods and Forests. Mr. WOOD (Brecon), hoped the . House would give the motion a favourable consideration, as the promoters had been treated with much injustice. Colonel WOOD considered as the promoters of the line had expended a large sum of money in prepairing their case for Parliament, that they ought to refer the rule again to the Com mittee, in order that the disputed question might be settled. Mr. TANCRED said this was the second session the Bill had been before the House. It was thrown out last session by the Committee of Selection on account of some informality. He submitted that from the first moment of its pro jection it was quite obvious that the Woods and Forests would not consent to the passing of the line through the property of the Crown. When they came before the House this year they were in the same position with respect to the Woods and Forests, as they still refused their consent. The Committee to whom the Bill was referred found it impossible to proceed with it under such circumstances, and they there• fore negatived the preamble. After detailing the proceedings of the Committee, he concluded by expressing his opinion that, in eases in which the consent of the Wocds and Forests was necessary to the construction of a railway, that the fact of such consent having been obtained should be shown before the Committee of Selection. Sir G. GREY must say that if the promoters of the Bill were not able to produce the assent of the Commissioners of the Woods and Forests before the Committee in consequence of the delay of the Government, it would be a great hard ship to prevent their Bill from proceeding through the House. It, on the other hand, the non-production of that assent was caused by a want of due diligence on the part of the promoters, he could not see any reason why the decision of the Committee should be reversed. Now, what he wanted to know as, whether the delay rested Government; and he should not like to give his vote on this occasion without some explanation on this subject from a member of the Government. 111 r. HODGSON said that the reason the Committee re jected the Bill, was because they had deemed the estimate in sufficient. Colonel WOOD said the Hon. Member was mistaken as to the facts. Tne fact was, that, in the prosecution of the works, the Woods and Forests required that the railway should be made not only under the park but under the river. Sir R. H. INGLIS said, that previously to giving any vote on this subject, be thought the House ought to be in possession of the whole of the correspondence which have passed between the Commissioners of the Woods and Forests, and the pro moters of the Bill. They would then be enabled clearly to understand the position in which they were placed. He would beg leave to move, therefore, that the present discus sion be postponed till this day week. The amendment having been put, M r . P. VILLIERS said that he would believe that his Honourable and Learned Friend, the Member for the University of Oxford was very anxious lo have further information on the matter before the House, bat he was just as sure that the parties more immediately interested would rather have a decision at the present moment. He begged to say, before they came to a division, that the Select Committee had, as yet, pronounced no decision on the Bill. The Hon. Chairman of the Committee had made no complaint against any person or office. He stated the case very tempe rately and fairely, and, as the case would be establishing no precedent, lie trusted that the Rouse would consent to the motion. Lord LINCOLN said that, judging from the circumstances he bad heard since he came into the House, he felt inclined to support the amendment of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Oxford. He (Lord Lincoln) was connected with the Board of Woods and Forests in the last year, and he recol lected that precisely the same line was laid before them, and the Board then intimated the determination to resist it to the utmost. They had commissioned an eminent engineer to re port as to the effect the line would have upon the Crown pro perty, and he had reported that the line was very objectionable, but that no other could be carried through the same country. The line waa dropped last year, and was now brought forward in precisely the same shape. He should not be disposed to vote against the Bill. He was astonished to hear the charge brought against his Hon. Friend at the head of the Woods and Forests. Mr. WAK LEY rose to explain. Colonel WOOD hoped that the House would accede to the proposal of the Hon. Member. The fie4atp AND tilt Mond4Y week. NORTHER AND SOUTHERN CONNECTING On the motion that this Bill be read a second time M. WAICLEY moved as an amendment that the Bill be read a second time that day six months, After some observations from several Hon. Members, The SPE A Kgfi, having put the question that the Bill be read a second time, The motion was negatived without a division. (LEFT SITTING.) IMPEAJAL IeARLiAIVIENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 28. CORN-LAWS.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Earl GREY (in continatiun froni ---- mit 7 Third Editiop of last night), propeeded to say,-Thp fi . ilt observa tion I 1140 b4yei to addxess ' to your Lord ships is,. that throu gh the whole course of the debate it bits struck Ter)? forcibly that those Noble Lords who have been opposed to the Bill have all ayoldeg explicitly reviewing and defending that which 1 take to be the main point and hold of the existing corn-laws, as well as of all other laws upon the same subject. It is clear that the real aim of these laws and the object of all law; intro duced; is that of spewing a rempfrative price f cern, or in other words to raise the price of food to the people by an artificial supply l<t appears tope that, .as I have ventured humbly t o su b m i t t o your Lordslt which 11118: !PO intention and object ofa4l these ; 41y; it is coo requires to be proves b y argument, and unless cogent returns in the absence of all argument, can be adduced in favour of so artificial a restription of q)p qupply, it most by concltided that lawn which will give c h ea p ness of !boll to the people ;re Inlie) • (fesii : o- They rep resent that th e repeal of those laws will accomplish other than those which ; think are its real objects. In particular, most npble Lords who'have spoken, assert that the great object el toe presak iaw, '"was to pounce h certain Supplb to protect us from the great danger of dependence upon foreign nations for a supply of that food which is necessary to the existence bf the people of this country.--( Hear, hear.) these ate the arguments which many Noble lords 114 Ye pelt forward' r(1) •withont"foeitiing anY'offende, itittY be perrnitfid td that it is quite O4tt f power to !Cora this in any other liOtt thair as a colourable argument— not the real object for which the continuance of the law is supported. Let• me just ask you this? Suppose a give implicit reale' to . hi similar argument , and under similar circumstances, were urged by us, w ou ld those ~ uble oppose the re p eal of tho cornt s Lords wiia now for the sincerity t en n i: t it ° I will suppos e that the cotton manufactures of thii 'country, initead mnufac cdociumnetirtykA:L4rer(itligthratthlaline price rest of manufac turing for the whole world, rriznUf.tett;re only eiNr R'A'n and that the goods produced elsewhere were excluded c o o t ' t the U w or l d , this from our markets by the high protective duties —now, my Lords, if under such circumstances the question befqrP I. I F dutt" were, wheth er we should repeal such High protective 'and !Hippos'. the ce'ton - niandfactuters of tin s countr'y yore ;cline' t ` p iii a p cl @ a ye 4.ell6 niit be so rash as to repeal those duties, as you will leave yourselves dependent on foreign nations, and your population will be without shirts and gowns, and )0 . 11 lament your great rashn ess ." I want t know whether we should feel perfectly con vin ced that it was tats disinterested feeling for the 4 ,•• • dictate d inith 4otirsi;. and I consureers that want to know whether if this were done, if high duties were created, if a body of manufacturers were to meet and no other persons were present, they would not discuss the grand topics of high rates charged to the British manufacturer, and the cer tainty, if those protective laws were repealed, of the evils that would ensue, that bales of foreign goods would rush into our markets, and that certain destruction of our manufacturers , and others would be the result. Should we under such circum stances believe that it was a mere regard to the interests of the consumers that dictated their prayers ? My Loris, I mast say in the same manner that I sin a little incredulous whether that which has excited the enthusiasm of protection societies— that which has drawn such large crowds together at Willis's rooms that the two Noble Dukes who sit on the cross benches were obliged to divide their forces and to preside over different meetings—l say I cannot entertain a doubt, when that which has excited such a feeling among the producers of corn, and when 1 do not find such a feeling among the consumers, I say it was a mere apprehension at some future time our supplies from abroad might fail, and as a consequenee that prices might rise to an extravagant height, I cannot help thinking that the apprehension of having too much corn and also too low prices will not be verified. If I were to refer to a sufficient answer to that, it is to be found in the argument employed by the Hon. and Learned Lord (Brougham) the first night of the debate, when he referred to the fact—the indisputable fact—that Napo leon, in the heighth of his power, and during the most exciting period of the French revolutionary war, was unable to exclude corn from being imported into the English ports. If that one fact is riot conclusive, and if you wish more, I need only refer to what was said by the Noble Lord the late Secretary for the Colo nies, when he stated, in the course of his address, that competition was the cause of certain articles not rising in price. He stated, in the boldest and most authoritative manner, that of all the paradoxes that ever were conceived the doctrine that competition did not lead to the making of articles cheap was the worst.—(Hear, hear.) It is just as well a paradox to assert that the best security to the receiving of a plentiful and cheap supply of food is by the imposition of artificial restrictions on national and commercial intercourse. It has been argued, that the measure before the House should be rejected on the consideration that this subject is not one for legislation. If there be one question more than another on which I entertain a strong opinion, it is that the present question is a great and proper object of legislation.—( Hear, hear.) What is the effect of this rai.ing of the price of corn by the operation of a re strictire law? It was well put by the Noble Earl that spoke the last night of the debate (Lord Clarendon). He showed, nn the calculations of the Noble Earl opposite (Lord Stanley), and from a calculation taken from correct data, that the amount in the fall of price and the amount in the increase of consumption that would take place if the existing corn-laws did not exist could not be less than ten millions of money. Double the amount of the income-tax, and double the amount of the malt-tax,— a tax not a farthing of which goes into the exchequer for national purposes ; but a tax imposed for the benefit —I will not say the benefit, but rather the injury, or at least the imaginary benefit—of a single class of society.—( Cheers. ) But, my Lords, I know that it has been said that this is an unfair representation of the circumstances. I know that it has been admitted that the price of corn has been raised by the corn-laws—it has been admitted that the payment of a highs r price for their food is in itself a burden to the working classes. Still it is assertea that no real injury is done by this system of protection to agriculture, be came the fects which result from the existing law show that its effect is to keep up wages in the same proportion that it keeps up the price of corn. This was the great argu ment of the Noble Lord who spoke so ably on Monday night. I cannot help remarking that it is perfectly clear, in the first instance, that the increase in the price of food is in itself a heavy tax on the working classes, a large proportion of whose income is expended in the purchase of food. But it is asserted that the effect of the corn-laws is to keep up the wages of the labourer. We ought to be sure that this is the fact; it is net one which ought to be taken for granted, without the fullest and closest investiga tion. But that that lies at the root of the matter was lightly glanced over by the Noble Lord. He argued that if the price of corn was low, competition in labour would bring down wages in the same proportion, and, therefore, that the industrious classes would be no gainers. This is an easy way of disposing of the question, but it is not by any means a satisfactory one, and it was the less satisfactory because his Noble Friend made an admission which would lead to a directly opposite conclusion. He admitted that you by your le g islative measures did no t in terfere with the rate of wages. He told us that wages did not fall in the same degree as corn did, and, therefore, ho really admitted that when the price of wheat rose the working man was exposed for the tirae to a considerable pressure. lam sure your Lordships will admit that I have not unfairly stated this argument of the Noble Lord. lam sure that the experi ence which we have had in the last few years is perfectly satis factory upon this point, if we compare the state of things in this country in the dear years as compared with the cheap ones. If you compare the state of things in the years 1833, 1834, and 1835, when wheat was low, with the years 1939, 1840, and 1841, when it was dear and scarce, you ea! find that in the first of those years there was a great demand for ]about, and wages were high, while in the last of those years you will find, on the contrary, that trade was slack, that there was no demand for labour, that wages had fallen, and that numbers of persons were thrown out of employment. The ca lamitous slate of the country during these years is a matter so recent, and it has made such an impression on every person who knew what the condition of the people really was, as to render it unnecessary for me to dwell upon it. But, my Lords, the reason of this state of things is obvious. There can be no doubt at all that the difficulty of these unhappy years to which I have referred can be easily accounted fur, When corn rose to a high price, very family throughout the kingdom was compelled to expend a very large por tion of their income to obtain a supply of loud, and there was, of course, a less available income for other things. There was less available income for clothing, for tea, for sugar, and other article s o f th a t nature . Th ere was less demand for manufactured goods, fur the articles of the small shopkeepers, and the merchant. '1 here was, therefore, a general diminution of their power of employing labourers, and a general eiminution in the consumption of the producing classes. This explanation is quite sufficient to account for the sufferings of that year. I ask what possible reason there is for believing, if these prices are low, the price of food become s permanent. I see no reason of the kind, I believe permanently as well as temporarily, if the price of food is high, there is a small proportion of national income available for other pur poses, and therefore a comparatively small demand for labour, anii a larger proportion of persons seeking employment. Upon the other hand, in seasons of plenty and abundance, and low prices, the population consume other things in larger quantities there is a great demand for labour, and consequently a prosperous state of things takes place. I presume the correctness of this course of reasoning is strongly borne out by fact, because when we look to other countries where there is this state of things—permanent low prices of food—in these countries we invariably find wages high. The Noble Earl, who spoke last night, admitted the fact. He said it was per fectly true that wages did not appear to be governed by the price of food, because, he said, in America and Australia, where the price of corn is low wages are high. In Poland, the price of corn is high, and the wages are low, being kept down by the mis- government of that unhappy country, the restrictions upon industry, and the want of employment. I challenge my Noble Friend to mention any country in the world, from Ca nada to Australia, where there is a small population, with an extended territory, whore food is cheap, and where there is good order and good Government—l defy him to mention any such country where wages are not exceedingly high. I believe that is an acknowledged fact, and I further contend that the reason for these high wages is to be found in that abun dance of food, for while food is abundant there was a competi tion amongst employers for labour, whereas when food was scarce, and in a thickly peopled country, the competition was amongst labourers to find employment.—( Hear, hear.) If you apply restrictive laws upon the trade in food, you increase the disadvantages under which a fully peopled county necessarily labour, because if you interfere with or restrict the trade of a large corn-producing country, you increase the proportion of your unemployed labourers, who otherwise would be engaged in manufacturing goods for those corn producing countries— ( Cries of "Hear, hear")—while, on the other hand, if you encourage the mutual interchange of products with such countries as Hungary, Poland, and America, you are increasing the inevitable disadvanta ges t o w hi c h the la bourers of a thickly populated country are necessarily sub jected.—( Hear, hear.) After, however, what fell from a Noble Friend beside me upon the subject of the interchange of the commodities between a fertile, though a thinly populate;] country, and a thickly populated country, I should be ashamed to trouble your Lordships with a single word further upon this part of the subject.—( Hear, bear. ) It is this interchange of commodities which keeps wages up in both countries. But I see a Noble Marquis opposite denies the justness of my eon,. elusions, and I hope in the course of the debate he will point out to me where my chain of reasoning is defective. If I am right in this argument, that one fact ought to be con clusive, anti there ought to he an end to all future argu. ment—if we are once satisfied of that fact, no other argument, in a Christian country, ought for cne moment to be use d against the measure.— ( Hear, hear. ) Vhen I look at the condition to which the lehoering elassus have been subjected, when I collside; how frightful has been shown the condition of tho agcicult4ral labourers in Dorsetshire and Wiltshire, whe el know how much they are below what we could desire, eve? ee L e e most favoured countries, and when et the stile time I know that the effect of the corn-laws, - t thinh are still working, is to depress wages and ;cis ; : the price of food, it seems to me that it is utterly useless to argue the question further. Thmo who, in the year 1842, ca led themselves th e farmers i ft4nds, did a most serious injury to those w h o were so gqii;hic as, to believe. They rushed into the markets to gat ri,d of their property, but they very soon found out, I belice, tow great hid been their mistake; and it is ply c.onvietton that the country has not yet *Teamed iron} the effects of their folly. lam happy to find notwithetanding the agitation and the prophecies which have been made as to the effect of this IneAsu - ce, that land never let better, never sold setter, anti 4,at a greater spirit of agriculture never existed irt tees eeentry._.(Hear;hear.) I belieee the et t eum i ol see diaining tiles is much increasing —Se 111.1C11 so, that the moment a kiln of draining tiles is knoven to be ready, there is a struggle amongst the feerreves of the neigh bourhood as to who shall be first snppliad with those necessary grtisties feet the iieproecemeni of their land.--( Hear, hear.) Illy Lords, I think the farmers and occupiers of land need mit fear the passing of this measure ; and 1 think that, (r e am what I have stated, it will be seen ;het there is no ground for the calculations end fears of my Noble lieieeo, apd I think that his statement that corn can now be sold ip this country much cheaper th an f ormer l y i s entirely groundless.—( H ear , beer.) illy Lords, I do not want—even if it were the fact that the price of corn would grgatly fall in consequence of the passing of the Bill which is now under consideration--I do not walla to go to aev Ingth on this portion of the question, but at the ;Aisle time'] cannot help adverting to the stetereie n t W2Bmade with ver y great conedeeete, bX esy Noble Priend, who spoke on Monday night, es 'hiving been previously made by what seemed high practical authority. My Lords, he told us that there werg cargoes of wheat at this moment in this con,ptry. which had been pur chased it the Palt;c :iaa at 14i., and had arrived in this country, and was offered at 235. the quarter. Now, my Lords, I was told by a gentleman, with whom I am certeiele not ac quainted, but who describes himself as largely intrested in the corn trade—thoy,,h r,seanl not to . tretible your Lordships with soy figures, hope you will forgive me if A tread a very 4tritte froln the letter' to ivhiCh 4 liars adverted. This letter is dated'`.t yosterday." He says it is perfectly teee that 'Lord 'Stanley's correspondent has two cargoes of wheat imported into this country, which cost him (mind ]tin s the price named in this lett er . Nothing "*1 era more falla cious than the state:T=4 was made era' thatmed. eat whets reale he deed in' this &dentatenamed. The' 'the price t The'oeigitial eost is about 335. per quarter, including •eeess • ard all other charges that arise fro Ist t ft a Stanley's in t Yof the sliding-scale. ees eegerfis the h a e l a a t te i rn . statement country, I yen. corersiSerseerit es to the price of see purchased at less than 455. • rota to say that wheat cannot b the quarter at W ; eimarand when 10s. is added to ththat,freight and all charges,etca . nnl be sold endes-Lee. per quarter.' Taking into consideration r t e risk aseregards the quality o f co7n, ao ail tee disadvantages which it could be In oug h t intothis•eountey, bef . ere the •peice of their corn is a't,ecetedejy the o pening of -our p'ort's, theirveodece Cased'eut h e i ntroduced issto this country at dowse pr ice than that w hi c h the British . torn is now bearing in the market. I think that the result of protection of some kind to the farmer ought to teach those • at the .ntroductioM' of foreign terested in laud, how little foundation there wa y t i n" present expressed with reeere t eerie Sty friend, in the :Teeth to ishidtilhave toldus that the manufacture of wool was a strongadverted, has My Noble Friend has endeavoured tomake„ Out that the fail in the price of wool was in consequence of the removal of the protection duty. What were the real facts of the case with regard to the wool trade ? The duty on wool was repealed at the time of the great panic in 1825. After that panic the SA hole trade of the country was affected for a long time. The value of wool went down like the value of other articles for two or three years before they recovered it. An injury was dune to the matiufacturers by the existence of high duties at that time. In the year 1828, when a Committee of this House was moved for, the evidence was brought by a number of gentlemen and persons connected with the wool trade, for the purpose of proving that wool at that time was at a ruinous price, and the manufacture of it was not sufficient to pay its expenses. They went on to say, according to the proofs they had on that subject, that the maintenance of the duty would be of advantage to the foreign grower ; ar.d they said the depression which they then experienced was nothing to what was coming, and that they should have bales of wool at prices which it was folly for the British grower to attempt to compete with. They stated that the same land which was valuable for the production of corn was valuable for the production of wool, with the same labour, soil, and industry; and in the course of a few years the cheap cern. growers would apply themselves to the growth of cheap wool ; and that wool, in proportion to its value, was of smaller bulk than corn, could be transported a greater distance at less ex pense. Therefore that free-trade would cause the price to rail to a ruinous extent. The House was fortunately wise enough to refuse this committee, and what, he asked, was the result? In the course of a short time—in one or two }ears — the price of wool recoveretittnerderfudy. The wooden menu factures were greatly improved, and from that time to this wool has been one of the best articles of manufacture and of profit to the farmer. There was no article on which their profit was greater. The Noble Duke may shake his head. I kno,v something of the price of wool, and what ever may be the price of wool in Sussex, I can inform him that in Northumberland the price of wool on the average of years, from 1828 to this time, has Leen considerably higher than the prices during the existence of the prohibitory duties. That was a strange fact. We are told that the competition in wool was more dangerous than that in corn, and that the removal of protection will destroy the woollen trade. The experiment of removing the protective duty had turned out well, and was it not reasonable that the same principle should be applied to the corn-laws ? There was another article of the same kind. At the time of the reductien in the tariff it was adverted to with the greatest possible apprehension, as being likely to in troduce cheap corn. My Noble Friend in some portion of his speech, says :--" That in admitting foreign stock, it was actually repealing the corn.laws, for then corn would be im ported in the shape of fat cattle, and the foreign agriculturist would thus be saved the expense of carriage." I believe that my Noble Friend was right. He has been very careful in hit arguments to show that the present high prices of stock were owing to the tariff; and so far 1 am bound to say that 1 concur with him. We have had four years' experience of the tariff, and if any great alteration has been made in the market by any supplies from abroad, we have seen from the state of the mar ket last year, that tar from it causing any re duction, the supplies from abroad have been unable to check the rise in the market, while at the same time the in troduction or the small cattle imported from Germany has pro dueed a material effect in that country, and the cattle in many places, in proportion to their size and quality, fetch very nearly as high prices as in this comatry. I could go on to show that the same thing occurs with reference to the produce of other States. All these things are grown on the same land, by the same labour, and by the same means that are available to pro tection ; and they were all more valuable in proportion to their bulk than corn ; and yet in this article in which the trade is far less, we have found by experience that the British grower has nothing to fear. My Noble Friend has turned round and said to us, " If you deny that you expect a fall in the price of corn, what is the advantage you expect from a reduced duty upon it?" He thought that by that question he had reduced us to a dilemma from which there was no escaping. That was the sort of argument he had taken, and it requires very little con sideration to perceive that we do not expect to have a fall in the price of corn, but we expect it will be much more even. We do not believe that we shall have such variation under free trade as we saw when, in 1836, in December, the price of corn was 355., and in 1839 it was 81s. per quarter. We shall have neither of these extremes. We expect that we shall have the average prices lower than they have been during the last dozen years, arid reduce the a m ou n t of fluctuati o n. Th e Noble Lord has denied that it will render the prices more equal, but I believe that there will be no difficulty in showing your Lordships that the prices will be more secure. What is the invariable regulation of prices? What is it that lowers the prices in dear years, and heightens the prices in cheap years ? It is commerce which bestows this upon us, and which puts us in that superior position to which we were in those barbarous times, when we had at one time a plentiful supply and great distress to the grower, arid at another time scarcity of corn, and famine and distress to the consumers. In a civilised country this is the operation of commerce ; a man is been for his own interest. He buys in the cheap year arid sells in the dear year, and in this system of social organisaation, when not interfered with, regulates the prices so as to check that extensive suffering of one party or another. The opera tion of the tariff has rendered the dealing in corn a gambling transaction, in which a great part of the merchants hesitate to embark. So strong is that fact, that it was proved before an agricultural Committee of the other House, that the course pursued was such as to render any trade in corn so hazardous as literally to hinder any merchant from embarking in it. There used to be at one period a stock, such as would always carry on the country for six months, but since the trade in corn has been rendered one of so hazardous a nature, the stock in the country has been reduced to just enough for a fortnight's con sumption. That was a proof of the injurious effect of any corn-law. What was the reason that prices fell so low in 1839 ? Was it in consequence of the competition with foreign corn ? Was it to the competition of any foreign country that we owed that ? No. It was our own succession of good crops in this country. The high prices and low credit of a few years before had artificially stimulated the prices of corn, and, in consequence of that, a great effort was made to increase the gro.vrh of corn, and a large quantity was then produced, at a time when the consump tion was not sufficient to take it off the hands of the growers, It was the excess of our own produce; and so long as we adopt only one source of supply, we must be exposed to want in years of scarcity, and excess in years of plenty. How different the case would he if we tOO% the same proportion of supply from abroad. If that were the case, and you had a re, guitar trade in fereign corn—enough for home conserepie e ,_ the foreign corn would be quickly supplied in the dear years and in scarce seasons ; ane, n consequence, the price would be higher in comparison that year than in other yoers, The trade would bear a larger proportion in its prices of ocrn than it then did, end therefore it would be less inducement to the merchant to introduce foreign corn, and the country would thus be able to take off all of its own growth by a slighl ree striction on the quantity received from abroad, The le oeld be the natural operation, and the farmer, by sciling a larger quantity of corn, would be compensated for file fall ii, its price. I do not deny that, in plentiful years, the produce would be cheaper than in scarce years, and it would be the foreign grower, and not the home grower, who would reap the benefit of this measure. There is another advantage winch we shall derive from the repeal of the law, an advantage of great im portance. The advantage would be a greatly increased con. sumption of corn. Will any man attempt to argue that the people of this country consume as much corn as they desire— that they do not desire any more. In Wiltshire and Dorset shire, the consumption was far less than what the labourers desired. He believed that the peasantry do not wish to live on less bread than they do at present, and to supply the place with inferior articles of food ; and the effect of repeeliag the re striction on the statute book, would be to cause a greatly in creased consumption of corn. There would also be a greater consumption of cattle; the consequence of an impreaved de mand would he, that the farmer would take even a larger number than at present; and, I need not toll your Lordships, who are yourselves landowners, that every attempt to improve agriculture, is commenced by tha taking of an increased num ber of stock. There will be a greater crop in consequence, and cheaper poen. The direct tendency of the system would be to authorise the gradual improvement of agricul ture ; and in my belief, it will offer a stimulus to competition, and an encouragement to trade. Un der the increased demand and consumption, agriculture will make far more progress than it has hitherto done. We shall see that the science is but in its infancy. It has been said that a removal of the cld tenantry would have to take place. I believe that 'inch a thing will be unnecessary, A change of tee eetee 1 should aal rtcor alteration s r ol e ln g o s a ie r nd d t h a t co s ae improvegtrn:etatit y m i s t (F e s-ru notne andne pessary—the th a e " f e ar e m in e n r g s Condi tion and those under them. (al eourse, foreign countries had riot prepared corn to the. extent we require, arid the intreed tion would on l y he felt by degrees. In my opinion, the chaneg; should gradual, and as the cultivation gradually extended, so seosild the consumption of the country extend in an equal ratio. The means by which the facilities of would be increased weeld be by ad o pti ng the re:to ll :la ' e ° n y t e l z a n jo ri n t of my Noble Friend's Committee, with regard to the transfer and conveyance of landed property. Let me remark, also, that improved farmer; would ereplo.y mere agricultural la bourers. In that farming, called the higher farming, the owner employs more hands, and employs them more continually on the land, In the evict nee adduced before the Committee of my NoVle I~:vic4id, we were told, that the farmer of the iketh of England was obliged, in order to prevent their being thrown on the poor-rates, to employ more hands than he re quired. When it was said, that the land would go out of culti vation, it was a wrong calculation of the probable effect of the law, Sea far from it, it will be better employed. I, for one, do not expect to see any fall even in the rents. The land in a populous country would always be used in some way. I would have entered upon a very important point, in reference to this question, but 1 trusted to have the opportunity at another stage of the 13i11.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," and cheers. ) The Noble Lord who spoke last night considered that it was impolitic! to narrow the means of employment by letting in fo retee goods in competition with our own. But let me observe with reference to the colonial, that there is no smelt difficulty as to the means of finding profitable employment for labour and capital. The difficulty there is to lied sufficient labour and capital for the profitable development of the natural resources and wealth of their country; and the effect of your protecting duties is to divert their industry and capital from its natural, and therefore moat 'legitimate, channel, into a eourse of opera tion of on artificial and unproductive character. No man doubts that Canada is poorer than she would have been had you not given her protecting duties on her timber. Let any man say the vast amount of labour and wealth which has been expended in consequence of your absurd and impolitic s y s t em . It has had the effect, of importing a vast amount of bad and in ferior timber into this country, This is the same with respect ' to all the other colonies. l'hey gain nothing at all by your protective IT:teens. They would have full employment under eey eireumstances for all the capital wh'toh they possess. But , u. at the same time, whil e th e y ga i n not hi ng b y these pro tective duties, they are serious leers by them in consequerie i protection which we elaim from them in returoe Protective they have suffered greatly in not blies( t o send duties have been highly injurious to our N h Y le es o i o u b d t i a a i n n c t o h i o o i n r ie v s s.. , their pro duce supplies from differees markets, end that to t most nothing t h gadbvyanytnaogreoduosti duties, a m n s 4 . point d ln uce West India colonies, is this principle which appliesthe other colonies ; examine the esliele e t a s tc' h i a v gaited t the o y o u . will find my seatement ensee e s, o e i ls r o ci : o p f pl t ic h a e le m le , a tz s all • • -y eons nestrictive duties, 11 I sers e but that they are actua 0. , eeessequence of the reci aeeleatutd w t the history of this ;Gent ry, net that do they not gain anything 1. • ty which we claim . trom in return. Is there any lain prom ka American in a a o r e ilY 'see that it was the desire to fe s - ' the hoetero of the et a el ' : American war, 'commercial dependence news t w h h a o t is ct. 1.. 1 ; terse o involved this conOvi It was this commercial policy nies that was really at and what resulesel 'se the les s of those tettr enormous debt. batn.d plitnirsaactfeadet,war, great colonies to attempt to enforce this sySt€ll and bress4h4 on ° One li , a t t h i a ° t n th in e litTekrCiaelvdeeriyiendencys was the lteaf.,,,thi jeottlis;iet,iir,edothis country from the United ]lave still remainedto say that these large pressinees wooltt States. aey different manner, Crown. rr a te ee. parted with us in a They at in the possession„ s 4 the British mightand st.;ll es'eeerved amicable relations with us, ov "groin degree of jealousy and angry feeling which always seems to exist between Amer,; 'end this country. I should have thought that the Noble Earl would his have i a n l d luded , t c o : th a t topi c , el might h ave pro d uce d i n ees ' disagreeable reco ll ect i ons of a ::e hich' ''' tO'ok I • .ace . the Hon'se . of Commons on the question of last m the edinisiion of Aus tralian co rn i n t o t hi s countre, yeat . was' the course of pro ceeding at that r eried s You granted them the privilege of sendinl their coin ihtoehis country. You refused, that privi- lege terall the other celQnies and rye tAk 4411 -1. ads, toms.: r ; she had just before been in a state of insurrection, while at the same time you refused it to those colonies which had ever been loyal. My Lords, 1 for one think this was a course of policy well calculated to rouse a spirit of disaffection. fhe Noble Earl went on to say that it was your duty to keep these colonies always in a state of dependence, and alluded to the great military and naval expense attending keeping these colonies. I must be permitted to :ay, that this is rather a debt: five mode of argument. The paint to be proved is the advantage of a protecting duty. That being the point to be proved, you first say if you donut give protection you lose the colonies, and that therefore is a reason for keeping protection, and then you turn round and say do not take as ay protection, fur there is no further reason fur maintaining the colonies it you do ; that is, I cc nsider, arguing in a circle. You say do not touch the protecting duties; having thus estab lished the necessity for protecting duties, you turn round snd say, if you have not protecting dutiee, of what me are the colonise? This was one of the most complete possible examples of arguing in a circle which I ever knew. We have the ad vantages of a colonial empire, possessing friends in every q uarter of the world—of having a large population in every part of the globe possessing great natural resources, ready to unite heart. and soul with us, and prepared to defend our positions, to support and defend our interests, and to take part with us against all attacks which may be made against U 3 ; and, upon the other hand, they have this inestimable advantage, and. which, I verily believe, they prise and value—they have the; glory and security derivad to them from being part of the' greatest, the mightiest, and most civilised nation on the face of the earth—the have the glory of calling themselves British. subjects, and the proud satisfaction of feeling that in defence. of their interests and the protection of their just rights ; the power and might of this great country is ready in a moment to be called forth and be exercised for their defence. I believe that they are fully sensible of these benefits ; and I believes if t base benefits, you extend a liberal policy bath political and commercial, and extend to them the clearest and mast' indisputable right of Englishmen, the power of self-govern' ment, and avoid vexatiously meddling in their international: affairs, you will bind them to you with a chain which no powers on earth can break, and that connexion between the' parent state and the colonies will be extended till their p_ol'"' lation far exceed that o f th e mot h er country. The Nubia Lord next proceeded to show how unjustly this measure won't ° operate if passed into a law upon Canada. He proceeded to say—you have encouraged Canada to extend large sums of money upon the faith of your continuing to than the protection afforded by the existing corn-laws' and that it would be an act of great injustice to that country if we were to alter the present law. He fur , ther said that the Canadians have no chance of competing with America, and if we passed this Bill in its present state wo should ruin the commercial prosperity of Montreal and Que bec, and transfer the trade and commerce of these places tr New York. My Lords, I think in the present case the opi nions of the Canadians are entitled to some weight from you Lordships. What are the feelings of the Canadians upon the subject? My Lords, I hold in my hand a newspaper pulp , lished in Canada, containing a report of the debate which took place in the House of Assembly of Canada upon that subject. It may be as well to state that her Majesty's Government, etas mediately upon coming to their resolutions respecting the alteration of the corn-law, made a communication to the Government of Canada of their intention., and told them that , they were at liberty to repeal the duty of 3s. a quarter uoma American wheat, which they had imposed when the measure was submitted to them by the Government at home, A mead sure was accordingly introduced for the purpose of repeaint the duty on American wheat. In the course of discussion oroe that question a motion was made and carried in the Assembly. for reporting prog ress . Wh a t turne d out to be the fact ? seems this amendment was carried in consequence of a miser, prehension, some of the parties not exactly understanding each : ' other as to the effect of this vote. In a few days after the consideration of the subject was resumed, and a' vote was taken upon the subject. I have read the speecbet. which took place during that debate ; but there seems to have' been nothing of that desp on di ng an d h opeles feeling to "'Lich the Noble Lord referred. On the contrary, there was i n general a tone of more manly and hopeful nature ; a nd as proof of the existence of the feeling, the measure seas carried by a majority of 45 to 27. The Noble Lord went onto: say, that the passing of this measure would shake their feeliege of loyalty to the British Crown. I confers, my Lordsa that I heard this language with great regrets' as it seemed to imply that the Canadians would be almost justified in manufacturing a spirit of disleyalty and disaffection' Why, my Lords, the very same week in which they had bees discussing the repeal of the corn•laws, in that same week I. Alike], Bill was und er th e consideration of the Assembly. * will read to you an account of the proceeding , , i n the As sembly. ( The Noble Earl ( Grey) then read. areport of the proceedings upon this Bill, the tensor of which implied a fee l ' of confidence in the Government at home.) The result, there' of those considerations is, in my mind, to demorstrate lint" the passing of this Bill, now before your Lordships, is inn' peratively required by the great masses of that country; —( Hear, hear)—and that, by passing this Bill, we cur no risk of any injury to our interests, c"14917n. or domestic. None of the great interests of the e mpire 11 7 be exposed in my opinion to any injury. Upon the other Wu'. by rejecting this measure, you will injure many great int . , e ' s setting on th e cross-benches, who at an early perido rests. I ask you ; an d I remind the Noble Duke (Riehnoon"; th i evening, when the petition of the merchants of the City London was presented by a Noble Earl opposite, asked sligni," j casitly how ma n y s i gners of the petition are holders of bolwe'''; corn. I think y our L or d ships all know the inuendo coneeY " in that observation ? Now, my Lords, I wish to a. k Oc' n e and I will also remind the Noble Duke, that if we reject this Bill, whether the Noble Duke's example w ill not be followed by other parties, and whether it will not lead then! to think upon the subject of your rejection of this measure, and inquiring into the reasons which may have led your Lordships to reject this measure ? I ask whether they will not begin is inquire 'now many of your Lordships are owners of land? A. l l Lords, I do not believe that, conscientiously, at all events, eni of your Lo r d s hip s can b e i nf l uenced by these motives. Bu after what has been said by the Noble Duke, I cannot think but that a great many of you are influenced In yof decision by the facts th a t y our Lords - hips are own ers o f l a ud. believe my Noble Friend felt himself justified in asking that p ef an wha as t ee w o : b u i l d y, question. But thins it would h ave b een much better if, eaitiatgu producedes !n on hhee had l c mind,remembered b w n h eh the e offsetof land owners rejecting a Bill imperatively calk. for by tire people of this country. 1 trust, my Lords, that before you take a course which seems to me SO full of danger, you will reflect upon the practical consequences of the rejection of this measure. I trust your Lordships will not act upon mere passion, nor gratify any feeling of indifo"` . ; tion which you ma y f ee l towards those whom you think rosy have deceived you ; or that your Lordships will not act upon, the principle of pu n i s hi ng th e Mi n i stry, or certain Members of the House of Commons who gave opinions upon this measur e contrary to your Lordships, but that you will consider fall! and fairly before you determine upon the rejection of the measure, what will be the practicable effect upon the pe( , )P; of this country, and what may be the probable oplOw_ s which the people of this country will form upon the m otives which guided the decisions of your Lordships. For what_; the fact ? De your Lordships believe that vote can maintai n the existing corn -l aw ? I s t h ere a N o b le Lord iti th io House who now h ears me w h o b e l ieves that the Governm en t o f t hi s country can, looking that the events o f t h e l ast f ew years, and the great change tr... has taken place in public opinion, think it is possible to orlaT o Lain the existi ng l aw f or a p er i o d o f any length. I sok three Noble Dukes (Richmond, Cleveland, and Buckiugh"" if they belie ve it p os sible, by an y com bi nat i on of circunastancees for two years to maintain the existing corn-laws? The Duke of RICHMOND—" Yes."--( Laughter. ) The Duke of CLEVELAND—" Yes, yes."—(lncresoe laughter.) The Duke of BUCKINGHAM—" Yea, yes, yes."—(ll.ldird of laughter.) Earl GREY—The Noble Dukes say " Yes, ye s " be I can only say that the Noble Earl who spoke last niglat with great animation, and at considerable length upon the subjee" seemed to expect some alteration in the existing la t But if it is likely to tend to the same result, then no man T . his sober sense s w ill recommend a dissolution of Parhamet, When we c ons id er t h e i n j ury which would be inflicted on t "", country, the absolute paralysis of trade which must ensue, old wo say that it i s a thi ng to b e desired that the country sh,na be put in on e un i versa l f l ame, when the result wouldbe h; passing of th e same B i l l ? But, my Lords, can they irnogin: that by thro w i ng out t hi s B ill, that they can obtain even a ee'iool promise, a n d th a t t h ey could induce Parliament to pa" 5 0 e 4 less objectionable measure? My Noble F r i en d on Ingot to night threw out many hi n t s t h at t h ose who voted for the t to in the prese n t s t age , cou ld h ave opportunities of alter i ng i another. However, I put it t o y ou, d o you think it advisa bl e ter ject this measure in the hopes of substituting another ofthoZ; a It is a vain hop e . L ook at t h e spirit of the times, and tell _ of do you think it p oss ibl e o f accomplishment ? If there alteration it will he an alteration of free trade in a more tended degree. My N o bl e F r i en d s, it was a great inconsisteller in me to support such a measure as this, when I formerly r o e., ported a fixed duty. B u t I slid support a fi xe d d u ty, r the principle of p rotec ti on , but because I beli eve d that ho e t or duty would be th e b es t p r i nc ipl e o f p rotection; for I h av e ever objected to th e w h o l e p r i nc ipl e o f w h at i s called protectvit. But at that time I thought a moderate fixed duty was ad top able, becaus e I b e li e v e d it would p ro d uce l ittle percept ible ference to the consumer, yet nev er th e l ess b e t h e means,i , i t greatly augmenting the revenue o f t h e country. I thoti o :__ ne , was a reasonable compromise, and t h at i t world give " years sooner all the advantag es o f a free trade, an d that it would avert a most injurious struggle which I f or esaw proaching. These were th e groun d s on which I ma i n tains that a fixed duty was desirable, for I took the liberty of as;__ ing those gentlemen who were th en support i ng t h e Gov u f ment, that the measure would lead to an entire free tradea el l told them that if they desired a fixed duty, that the days,, even the hours, in which they could be secureclo,rewneerte adopted at by, and that I, for one, if a fixedduty such o a settlerr P e° at the time it was offered, believed , that inable, and that the choice would, at a future moment, be un attainable, convinced that, had t" would never be propounded. 1 „ vi a eiuin have bee n d by" accepte measure been adopted in 1842 it firmly persuaded th • at it would be the country, but I am no less n would contioo e n could diet no longer so. 'f he or such a compromise. I am de o l i to , 7 interested in this clue e s r t e l s ° ted. As a philosopherlandowner enoug o i r t deny that I am so interested. List be affected, rin this cou and I am most env on' my pecuniary interest_ ld be done to injure my feet * that nothing; should Property ; a nd f I should deprecate is nothing which ld t d more than the pas sin g o I measure which wou en to keep agitation alive, woich believes would be the effect f o • a fixed duty. I.3 s u a . how can such a measure receive the sanction of Parliaanen t, ' t roy L or ds, we cannot exclude from Our co me re' nosseratioas so , Bard to public Opinion, and the pnc•• • ff i rs Of country. By what party, by why 't ion of the a a t set of men in this " te can of the you effect it ? We know that it Governnaeot. We know that cannot be by the party of jot week to nothing of the kills', they are pledged withi the a fixed duty is quite in e a Se i r t hl for them. The alternative .' language held by I , tue protect-is protection, but re ro ,, e lf wer d t tonists, that free-trade, "_:. eag e preferable to protection And what has been the la" " to set the party with whom • N I have had the honour hitherto _ t f ee oble Friend, who is at the head of that party , s tated tt e defs commencement of the session that he repared to " s os take the duty of Government . ‘"s P ;a" Is on the principle of relies' ,0 ,eels all know that my worthy friend is the best man to listen Go to k suggestion, and the be s t p erson t o come f orwar d to 11°P bird • fixed duty aft er w h at has passed. W e ll, then, there is the t Is party as t h ey call themselves, are they prepared to do i 2 6 , my Noble Friend who represents their °pa v t i,i nio ioto this House, or the Noble Dukes who coincide in __ o r s tb - s• with torn, are they prepared to form a Government L ur e!) L OW principle? I think, alter the very severe language w", o joion have held on the subject of inconsistency--of changee he jot-% and of eating words—l think they, of all, should ot b w euf_o• and would be the last—to propose a fixed duty ; f they be then demonstrating how far the i nc onsistency t . , "oo nature was possible.—( Laughter.) At all events , eY till never listen to su c h a p ropos i t i on. —( H ear . h ea r.) there is nobody to take the charge of such a c 0 . 700. tiny the idea of a fixed duty may be consigned to oblivion. ! so ro astin g ; opiaion it would have been the bust settlement by the had it been adopted when it would have been ac w . l :` toa o,r i n t i; country. We have now to choose whether we more otaple the law es, it at present exists, or consent to a n_s .y l orj , , nay_ acknowledgment of the principles of free trade. A u l ab l y ad Noble Friend on Monday night who addressed )0 .2 : 0 , the Anti . verted to a speech delivers d by a leading Metoba out al terl"r Corn-law League, in which the Speaker pointed con. :treasures which were contemplated by that associat Logu e . Lord KINNAI RD.—The speech was out madeat ,tn e % 41 0 e Earl GREY—I am told that it waa oot made at t . n . .;40 it is a matter of little conseittuce, awl to 11 4 " F THE SUN, LON FRIDAY„EVENING, MAY 29, 1846.