The Sun. — London, England, 1812-04-22 00:00:00

Quarter Session, ought never to he allowed to be come a. Judge ,on the Bench. It lay, on them to stew, why he who was allowed to elect Members of Parliament, ought never to be allowed to sit him self as Legislator. He took his great stand on the Ad of 1793. The enactments of that Act, by which important c'oncessions had been made to the Catholics, were in themselves proofs of the title of the Catholics to the concessions that remained to be made—they were proofs of the strongest assur ance on the part of the Legislature of the fidelity of the Catholics to the Protestant Government. • No o , e, he trusted,Would contend that the disabilities of the Catholics were so engrafted on the Constitution as ado illy to make a part of the Constitution. No one, he trusted, would contend that what he called a mighty evil was one of the our works of.t Ire Constitu tion. There was an argument that had frequently been urged, to which he would now advert. It had been said, " What ! would you admit the Catholics into political power ?" Were not they already the electors of a majority of the Irish Representatives ? And yet sonic people affetted to fear giving theth political power. Another strong argument in their favour-was the manner in which the case was argued on the proposition fur granting to the Irish Catholics the elect we franchise. It had been contended by one of the ablest opponents of that proposition in the Irish Par liarnew,, that if the Catholics obtained the elective franchise, they could not be afterwards jr stly refused the privilege of sitting' in Parliament. Unquestion ably, that was the great and master object of their minds. To the cry, therefore, not to admit the Ca tholics into the State, he would reply that they had already been aicliiitted by the acquisition of the elec tive' franchise, and by the number ,of offices to hich Parliament had rendered them eligible.— The claims must be granted, not as a boon, but as an acknowledged right, or Ireland would never be tranquilisede Let men of every persuasion be acknowledged to have a right to unite in the see vices of the -State, .withput the distinEtion of churches. He declared, that he would notsaccept a part of the claims of the Catholics as a boon to them. They claimed, on the ground of right, to be relieved brim exclusions, which, however, they might belastified by former necessity, were . not re qiesie at present. The Catholics had e a right to comflain of the want of -feeling towards them, on the part of the Legislature ; but against Ministers they had a complaint of a still heavier nature. Mi nisters had added insult to injury, in the manner in which they had resisted all concession to the Catho- - lies. They had itritated the Cathdlic mind in every possible way. In the other House of Parlia meet, amidst the most profuse expenditure on other aubjeels, when a person wished to add four thousand pounds to the grant for the education of the whole Catholic priesthood of Ireland, one of the Seere - tariessof State had the indecency to say, that he was sorry in his heart there had ever been such a place as the Col:ege of Maynooth !.-4 t,3001. was given on the same night to the Protestant Charter Schools; 12,0001. to that small body, the Dissenting Ministers in Ireland; bur when it was proposed to 'add 4,0001. to the 8,000 I: granted for the edUca tioo of the whole Catholic priesthood of Ireland, the proposition was scouted and refused. Those by whom it had been refused forgot that one of the strongest arguments which they had urged for denying the claims of the Catholics, Was, that they were illiterate savages. , Who made them savages Who withheld from them the means of education ? Government complained of their own ea., They first tarbarised the Catholic population, b% denriv -ing them of the means of civilization, and they then accused them of being barbarians. An 'apposite itory Fay it was conceived) was quoted from Gil Blas for the purpose of Rutting the Catholics down. It had been said, t hat in 1793 the Catholics were sa tisfied with what they bad .got; but that now they came forward, like the beggar in Gil Blas, with a . nsosket at the breast of him whom he petitioned.. He entreated the House to consider that these never was a time which called more loudly on them to evince their liberality . or their discretion, or what ever it Might be called, than the present. , If they abstained tram granting to-the Catholics their claims ai the present period, a time of peril would come, which eould make it a matter of absolute necessity to grant them, aqd which would therefore do away all the effect which a free Act of Grace might other . wise produce on the Catholic mind. He adverted to an extraordinary declaration, which he understood had been made for the purpose of intimidating the Catholics. It certainly had trot proceeded from one of his Majesty's Ministets, but it was supposed to in ye come from an individual of great weight. If it had proceeded from the Throne itself, he should have had no right to corn. mot on it, but it - was understood to have proceeded from behind the Throne. It had been spoken of in that House, and in various Clubs. Thi,s declaration was neither more nor less than that it would be expedient to send a battalion or Iwo of bis . Majesty's Guards to Ireland, with a certain illus trious person at their head. That it seemed was the sort of answer to be given to the Catholics. It was intelligible enough to be sure, and so lie trusted, if it were made, would be the rejoinder.; for his coon trytnen were sufficiently aware of the value of their constitutional rights, and of the best mode of de fending them. Such a proposition, let it proceed from whence it might, deserved the utmost con tempt and indignation, and he was persuaded, that the person who was capable of making it would be mere disposed to create hostility than to take his pia,:e in the front of the battle. However high might be his rank ; however near he might be to the person of the Regent, he (Lord D.) thought it necessary, in the fulfilment of his duty in Parlia- Inept, to mark such conduct with the most decided reprobation. From the commencement of the pre sent reign, to no event did the Catholics of Ireland look with more confidence and hope, than to that auspicious period when the Heir Apparent should assume the uncontrouled exercise of the Sovereign authority. In him they thought they saw 'he messenger. of peace—the pro mised gusrdian 'of the ptnple's rights—the indig-: narir spectate, - of the discords fomented under his tat her's Government—the plighted friend of the oppressed Catholics of Ireland. They recoLected that trey lino p ; cuhar churn on biteconerderation—they re, that on the first occurrence of the sus peosion of the regal outhorits,. Ireland mairitaieed sucse%stully the cause of the Prince of Wales, !elide iu Ern lanes that cause was defeated. His contidink couutormen had humbly trusted that they had bound their future Monarch to titans by e clokibla Strong, indeed, appeared to be the foundation on which their hopes and expectai imas were built. But it vanished. Instead of the paternal indulgeuce for which they had fondly prepared themselves, the sharpened edge of a slumbering statute, never before awakened, was, fur the first time - , called into mis chievous activity against them. A set of desperate Men dared to intercept the Petition Of four miltians of people to be confirmed in the possession and ex ercise of their rights ; and these ten. were made the Ministers of his Royal Highness's awn choice. by the first act of an unrestricted Regency. The country had, indeed, been told from the highest authority, that the present. was a new wet. — But what were the circumstances which gave to this high-sounding phrase its distiuguishieg characteris tics ? What act of mercy and grace to a suffering people had introduced this new order of things ? What grievances had been redressed? What pledges, the accumulation of a long public life, had been re deemed ? None., The expectations of the country had been disappointed, and to come mote nearly to the question before the House, the dearest interests of the Catholics of Ireland had been sacrificed.— Such were the true characteristics ; such were the distinguishing features of the new era. It was an era unequalled for the abandonment of pre-conceived opinions, and Oldie pledges of former times. Those who were at a loss for the influence which the pre sent Ministers had unexpectedly obtained might dis cover it in the linearnentS' of that setter sex which first beguiled mankind. They might discover it in the youthful allurements of CalypAo's Cour', uuited with the wiles of maturity and experience. It was there that the facility of getting rid of all en cumbering prepo , sessions was' acquired. There was shaken off that Noble Lord, the prick—the re fuge—the hope of his distracted country--the or nament of this. But be would dwell no more on this painful subject. He would rather in cHge in pleasing anticipations of the future.— He would imagine that the illusion would speedily vanish, and that the spell would speedi lyebe broken, by which a generous and enlight ened mind was at present held in bondage. He would now address Ministers. He would put it to them, whether they had calmly deliberated on the .circumstances of the country, and of Europe, before they determined to exclude so large a portion of the people - from an equal interest in the general wel fare ? A.moment like the present, when such a gi gantic mass of enmity was directed against this coun try, by the energy of a great and compreherisive mind, was surely not the precise time to sport with the feelings of our Catholic brethren—to irritate a generous, gallant, and high-spirited population, the sinews of our naval.and military strength. We had arrived at a crisis so alarming and portentous, as to render necessary the operation of that hi g h and con trolling authority of which Parliament was pos sessed. Parliament might secure a double claim to the confidence and affedion of the Publi,e--by open ing wide their doors to the petitions of the people people—and by annihilating the exclusive sys tem, together with the administration by • which it was to be supported. He could not permit him self to doubt of the ultimate salvation of the Empire. He trusted that there were in store for thi s un i te d nation a long series of blessings ; and with this hope and expectation .he must still recommend to her suffering and calumniated countrymen the ex ercise of that patience and endurance which they had hitherto manifested so honourably to them selves. He would conclude by moving, that a Com mittee be appointed to take into consideration the penal laws, as they affected the Roman Catholic seb jects of Ireland. With respect to the petitiens, no counter-petition lied been presented except one from the ministerially obsequious corporation of Dublin. He had a right, therefore, to assume that the peti tions of the Catholics spoke the almost undivided sentiments of the people of Ireland on the vitally important question at issue. He should also move to refer the Petitions to the said Committee. His Royal Highness the Duke of SUSSEX second ed the motion. He observed that every good subject must respect the laws of his country, which it was his duty to submit to, and to maintain as long as they existed. This religious observance of the law, how ever, did not prevent any one from investigating statutes, which, however necessary when originally framed, might by a total change of circumstances become very unnecessary and even very oppressive. If on such an investigation the subject had reason to find himself aggrieved, he had a right to petition ' the Sovereign and the two Houses of Parliament.— This right was one of the greatest privileges of our glorious Constitution--,-a privilege to which too much importance could not be attached, as it re lated both to the liberty of the subject and to the tranquility and happiness of the state. All such me morials as were humbly and respectfully presented te the Sovereign or to Parliament, ought to be received in a condescending and gracious manner, and the utmost attention ought to be paid to their prayer, that the people might be, satis hed there was an inclination to redress the grievances of which they complained. With such impressions the House ought to regard the memorials before them, and ought to give to the subjea the consideration which its importance and magnitude demanded. They would bear in mind the additional weight given to those petitions by the charaaer, both with respect to moral worth and property, of the individuals by witom they were signed. They ought to deliberate upon them with the most serious p , itienee—to lay aside every passionate feeling—to evince the utmost calmness .and prudence, in order by a strict comparison of cir curnatances to form a correa judgment as to the dis cretion, the feasibility, the propriety, and the expe diency of granting the prayer of thu petitioners. If bigotry were to be. found in that House, skulking in dark end loathsome corners, it ought to be ouittd, to make room for a wise and enlightened toleration. H such were the pilot at the helm, whatever might be the dangers which surrounded the vessel of the state, no doubt could be entertained that she would be ultimately brought to a safe anchor.--- Much had been said about a new asra ; he had looked for it in vain. It was only to he found in absurd publications of murders committed 1, PA; iiri, ' which were fit to frighten women and cliOren ; and in lette's addressed to divines, exhorting tiieui to preach on ;ratters which wire much better kept out of tie pulpit. Whet) a systcm of general tha r4 should be pinsued, tlyit indeed would be a new xia, and oueht to be hailed with ioe, tuft religioti, mild and amiable in itself, Gail been her too freteently made the in4rurnent of intolea , ranee and love of blood. Let the country avoid thi s stigma. To Parliament the petitioners looked tor re dress. Let Parliament convince them that am Wand just iceatill dwell in the country, and here still loved . to build their nests. He was well aware that the man who spoke his sentiments freely on political subj its' must raped to be. calumniated ; but he who felt the anior patriee, and had the welfate of his country at heart, would not hesitate to put on the armour of Curtius, and plunge into the gulph for her salsa lien. He Might perhaps be a, cused of indispo - etion cowards the Established Church. On the contrary, he was one of its wannest friends ; and he should continue to conceive it the most perfect system, as long as it should' continue to be the most charitable one. It was the cause of humanity which he was anxious to advocate. If a man were prevented from _Manifesting his religious opinions, he must become either a silent. and suspicious charaier, or a hypo-. ' critical and detestable one. The wiseit way was, to leave all religions to themselves, as long as they did. riot disturb the quiet of the commu nity.. A 1 good Giavernmeuts had tolerated a diversity of - Relig'ons. On the principle of toleration, the Greeks and Romans cenquered the greatest part of the known world, leaving to the ,countries which they subjected the erne enjoyment of their laws and religion. To the same cause might, in a great degree, be ascribed the success of modern France. How advisable would it be in this point, to take a lesAna from our evenue., and thus to gain millions of faithful and loyal subjects. His Roy 4 Highness proceeded to a detail of Ecclesiasti cal history, in order to Oliew, from the authority of Pope Gregory, and others, teat the Sovereigns of Cbentries in Europe had by no means been uniformly considered as ading under the controul of the Pontiff. No country had. re,isted Papal in flaence with so much determination as the Citholic Sovereigns and Parliaments of this country. Even four hundred seats before. the birth of Henry the Eighth, Catholic judges of England; in expounding the laws; decided against the supremacy of the Pope. William the Conqueror had . refused to swear obedience to Pope Gregory VII. The ob• taining of Magna Charta, that palladium o f our liberties, was attributable to the thinness of Cardinal Langten, aided by the Nobles, Although cettamly Henry VIII. was influenced by privaje rather than by public views, his opposition to the Pope was no . turious„ Mary, although she armored min of the Ads of Henry VIII. would not allow the Pope to interfere in - the State. Elizabeth re-enacted those Acts, but such was the wisdom of her policy,_ and so judicious her toleration, that had the Catholics of Spain landed in England, they would have found Caftdics and Protestants equally .hostile. His Royal Highness referred tO the auzhoritay of the best writers, to shew that the Catholics did not acknow ledge any power in the Pope dangerous to the State, and that their faith and loyalty might be depended upon. If it were necessary to answer the vulgar belief, that Catholics did not think themselves bound to keep their woad with heretics, the beha viour of Maria Theresa, a Catholic Princess, to her Protestant subjeCts might be instanked. When she was surrounded by tier enemies, she said to her Pieeiestant subjects, " Take toy son, guard him, and when lie beconies a Sovereign, he will Strew you his gratitude." And at a subsequent petted, this Ca . - tholic Princess repealed the restrictions which her predecesior had imposed on their Protestant sub jects." This noble conduct he contrasted with the - conduct of queen Anne towards the Catholics,-- He then took a view of the situation of things at the period of the accession of King William, and contended that the revolution was very different, considered as it effected Ireland, from what it was considered as it effected England. In England it was the effort of the great body of the people to establish their liberties in opposition to a Small party in Ireland it was a ,small faction establishing its own authority in opposition to the people at huge. The exclusions complained of by the people of Ireland were exclusions of which they Might well complain, as he thought any thing that went to deprive a man of the fair meats of sup porting himself in that line of lite most agreeable to himself, robbed him of the best rights of nature, of those rights which were dearer than life itself.— Such exclusions were unknown to the Coustiiu ion, and eventually they would destroy the Constitution, or the Constitution would •destroy them. He then took a view of the Protestant and Ca- IbOi:C Settlements, Services, and. Establishments, and. contended, that, from this similarity,. there was a prospect of their feeling no hostility towards each - other, of a nature that could at all endanger the State, if the Catholics were relieved from their disabilities of ,which they complained. The doetrine of the Catholics he e thought presented no barrier to the most•cordial union with Protestants. He would ask, were we not even now co-operating with the Catholics of Spain ; and thus aiding the Catholics abroad by our exertions, and injuring those at . home by our asser tions?. Our cond u ct in th e .cape, instance belied our sentiments in the other. Notwithstanding all that had been said, that this was not the proper time toge into a Committee on the subject, he thought, whether it was a question of right or of justice, that they ought to go into the proposed Inquiry. It had been send it was not a proper time to go into it, On I.ccount of the disturbances which had taken place ; but surely it Would not be maintained, - that because the - people were turbulent, it was necessary to give them cause to be so, in older to make them quiet. •He knew the Catholics felt a warm alma:lenient to their coun try, notwiths'atiding all the disabilities under which they laboured; and no man could deny that such disallitiies were grating things. He had .secn i when at [tome, in one Of their large rooms, a pietore of - their Majesties, and this he thought furnished - an incontrovertible proof of t: eir attachment to their Sovereign. In those moments' when indulging in' solemn reflections, when standing as it .were almost facds to face, with his Maker, lie had aked himself seriously, what if, was that court recommend him to the mercy of the Almighty ? tie had mentally answered, that all hopenauss be founded on fellow ing the Divine precepts dictated by the Creator—to love one another, awl' not to do that to another which he would not like another to du to him. This. was his" feeling, strengthened by • a consciOusnesta that the more fan hfully man pert°, ined hiri'day here below, the greater would be his reward on hio at • I' on - t't Ilia he thbiight ttiey Ottgiit t4bt to hesitate, no dAnger ought so be apprehended to the Estq biished Church, from conceding that which wasse quired. Lost indeed would chat Church be, wi n s 'existence depended on depressing a great body the people, and deny ing. them what they conscien tiously backed to be their right.: Sir John Davi the Attorney-C.;enerai of King James, had on on occasion dt claied chat these-never was a nation i tile world so fond of justice, even though it mid against: itself, as Ireland. The conduet of ...th Clergy in Ireland had been alzo highly panegyrised and it had been said so far bark as in . 1414, that th Irish hierarchy was .the most independent in to wodit. He concluded, by piess.ng on the House the beneh.s which might „be hoped from a c!rang with reiuect Co Ireland, and thankirig their Lorc ships for the attention with which he had been ht nonred. The Bishop of ExEi•ER observed, that the me tion merely spoke " Catholics," be thought was necessity that Roman 'Catholics should be ex pressed ; a, d theicsfore. tnoi.e 1, as an atnendrneni th ,t the word " Rowan" should he instrted after th word " the." On the motion of Lord DONOUGIIMURE, the Pe tition from Cambridge vves read, in a hid) the Cd tholies were went:wird as he had nvidiontd the,, tn the motion. His Ltrushlp trot th Roman Catholics outnt.• Limier the dconminitio which ne 11;41 ustd, but ilk tJJ :to .bje,iion to in ik the proposed ch,,nge, pßoided the N , b!e Lore. wh, hai stigvp.:ed it woolci givc ttit motion •ns, support On such an widen; wining he w wd be w'diing t, insert any other woi4 which the N0....e Lord t o 6h wash to intro uce. .' The LORD CHANCELLOR wished to be eoetrart in this priliciple, but he thought tree plunder in th ,Petition Louie n o t justify another itt toe mother. Lord REDEgDALE stated his objections i• grantio the prayer of the Cateolice; but doing this, how ever meet' he had at heart the interests of the Esta blisted Church, he was much deceived if any feel ing of envious hoStility to the Catholics, such a had been descrioed by the Noble Earl, influeoce his conduct, or any bigotted attachment. isnie the 2d, whatever had been his motive (whether hi object vt as to gain arbitrary power, or merely to in •troduce the Roman Catholic Religion) had elides voured to establish the Roman Catholic Church it ' this' country under pretence of granting religioo toleration. What was it that mainly prevented hi carrying this design successfully into effeet ? Wh; - it was this—he could introduce Catholics into civi situations without violating the law. He therefor' broke..the law to introduce them. For what par pose did lie do this ? Why uedestroy that security by which the Protestant Fetabtishment was pro. tected. Had then the Roman Catholics been caiia. ble by law of holdeig such situations, what leg been the consequence ? Why, in'that case, the people would have had no right to say the Aft which placed them there, were a breach of the la'c and e therefore, from this immediate circumstance, it was evident that the law complained of had p r os , . ed of essential service to the Protestant Establish. merit. In many - other instances it could' he prove that it had a similar effeel, and therefore he could not lightly g've it up. When the Prince of aerie! was called upon by the people of this couetry 0 , - take upotibtrnselt the Government, they called u-pen him to assert their religious as well as their civil li. berries. In the Conventional Address it was stated that " King James the Second and divers persen4 bi:d endeavoured to subvert the Protestant Religion: &c. &c. which was directly contrary to law." Their Lordships wofrild recollect that they called upon hire to assume the reins of Government that their religi4 ous laws and linetei.'s might not be again in danger , After the Pi ince of Orange had accepted the Crown, this - declaration of their rights was carried into et. feet in the second Session of William and Mary, and it was enacted, that no Popish Monarch shotild ' sit on the throne; and marrying one of th'; 'Popish religion, it was enatted that he should be excluded from the 'sovereignty, and that his heirs should be declared for ever incapable 0 1 inheriting , the Crown. Other securities were still thought necessary, into which the Noble Lord went at some length ; after welch he proceeded to wad i aed to coin-,rent upon the Curottation 0, 1 111 1 The question at plesent before the House was, wile , titer or not that_whicli, was requited by the Cad tholics, would or would not be injurious to the Protestant subj.:ee ? When he took tins suhjea into consideration, and read in the history of the cousitrys and found that the most effetnual security for the existing establishments had been found t, be this exclusion of persons professing the adman Ctutiolie religion from all political power, 'he could not easily be induced to join in any specula ion which went to give up that security. Here he wished to call the attention of the House to the situation i n whi c h the Government would be placed, if the wishes of the ' Roman Catholics were complied with. In a Goe verement where the Prince was absolute, he had X controul, which, under other circumstances, could not be exercised, as poisessir.g both the Legislative and Executive Power, the same di-omen was not likely to prevail, milicli, under other circumstances, must exist. In a Government like our , , it was very ditLuent, as if the Cttholics were admitted to all Protestant privileges, to hold . high situations in the State,, the consequence would be, that there would be a large political body in the State, hostiie to 111 °. existing .Establishment. -This rt itorally followed, as a true Roman Catholic was necessarily hostile to Protestant interest. Men m ould be men ; and in cises where honours and emoluments were to' be obtained, they would beeanxioes that they should be possessed by perqing of Own persuasion ; biz in a case like: theeresent; the stimt,Ls to struggle ice suderiority was infinitely -stronger. It - would ap pear to them not only desirable to take the'neces-7 nary steps to compass 'this de ig t, bit i would be fit to be an imperative duty, as they must feel II strongimpression on their rni ,, tls that theirs was the only true Church. ;On this subj. , d he was strengthen_d by the Opinions of Mr. Locke and many oilier persons of gte:at authority. With re spect icewhat had been said by the Royal Duke oil the subject of the "corti'l'aditeon in our refusing to, accede to the wishevol the Catholics, while we were laboui Mg `to assist the Catholi, s abi oad, he vt mild observe, that abstraetedlye we had no hostility to the Roman Cal Italic religion. We had - 1 10 o ., jed)on to ii, - So long is it did not disturb oat State. If a clout try chose to establish an •exkluitive