The Sun. — London, England, 1823-05-16 00:00:00

:Ministers, on dis subject, rntidebimieel !Ibis 'duty to ad - dress' the House thus early, for the purpose of stating without re serve, as without hesitation, the opinions entertained by him self and his colleagues with respect to this most important, and at the same time he must say it, notwithstanding the rebuke of the lion. Gentleman, most fearful question.—(l l ear, hear !) He had never come to a discussion on any question under feel ings of such great difficulty, not as to the principle on which his decision would he formed, nor as to the practical resolution to which it would be expedient-to come, but from a conscious ness of the danger which, notwithstanding all that had been advanced by the Hon. Gentleman, he must declare attended this discussion, in which one rash word, one ardent expression might: raise a flame that it would be no easy task to allay.—(Hear, shear!)--He stated this not for the purpose of attaching; any blame to the Hon. Gentleman or to those who concurcewith him, nor did he say it with a view of discouraging fair and free deliberation on this subject, but as a caution to those who, in a more advanced stage of the debate, and in the conflict of opinion, might be disposed to colour too highly that picture which the Hon. Gentleman had sketched' with no light hand, and who might pursue a practical goo6l with unnecessary hazard. *This the Hon. Gentleman appeared to him to have done, for what had the latter hart of the Hon. Gentleman's speech to do with the practical purpose which he had avowed ? What had past delinquences to do with his present object. and why was he to bring forward occurrences in the West Indies which, if , they had not been remedied before, could not be thus corrected. Why recall the cruelties formerly brought under their consi iteration ; and why, when the question was totally new, did 'the Hon. Gentleman couple it with another, with which, if it had been at dll connected with the present one, had never, for the last 30 years, been placed in the juxta position in which he (Mr. Canning), taking; the part he thought it his duty to take, had placed it, but for the sake of contrast, to declare that voting for the abolition of the SiaveTrade, they disclaimed all intention of abolishing slavery.—{hear o—When he made such a dis claimer it was not done for the purpose of asserting that slavery should be indefinitely continued, but to assure those concerned, that in fairness and in honour they could not 'bring that Act (the Abolition of the Slave Trade) to beer against slavery which they allowed to remain, not for ever, but till on its own grounds they should feel that they had a right to deal' with it. It was not necessary to look back to the extin. guished atrocities of a remote penod to revive past animosities, by urging against . those whose interests were now put at hazard, 'that which had been contracted should not be urged against the continuance of slavery, the horrors of the English Slave Trade. The Honourable Gentleman would have done better to have confined himself to that which necessarily connected itself with his present motion. He would not follow the Hon. Gentleman through what he had said on the Slave Trade, but should treat it -as that which had gone by. The slave popula tion in our Colonies was said to have been accumulated by a series of crimes. This, if it were historically correct, was not legally so. The Hon. Gentleman had argued this question as one of atonement. This might serve for the reflection of the historian, or the sentiment of the moralist, but in a case of great magnitude and inconceiveable difficulty, like the present, such an appeal ought not to be made to that House. The ques tion before them must be dealt with as a problem, which re quired all their prudence and all their caution. When he looked at our Colonies, he found a great slave population there, with a comparatively small white community. The question then to be propounded, seemed to him to be this, in what way can the greatest degree of moral improvement and political happiness be communicated to the blacks, with safety to the whites, who were entitled to protection, as belonging to our own country, as being fellow-subjects and as fellow-citizens. He, who would cut a short way through this difficulty, by ap pealing to the passions, rather than to their reason in favour of the blacks, without regard to the whites, might eloquently de chdm, but Parliament would pause before they suffered their conduct to be influenced by such an Advocate. Was it then possible for those most interested in the success of this question—for those who only looked on it with the eyes of moralists or philosophers—was it possible for any persons to look at it as Members of that House, mid still more as Mem bers of the Government, sincerely as they might commiserate • the situation of the unhappy beings to whom the motion re lerred, and anxious as they Might be to raise theni in the scale of existence, 'was it possible, he asked, to•look at the system with the extended root it had taken—strengthened and con 'firmed itseas by the lapse of ages, without feeling that it • ought to be touched with a delicate band ? These were knots which must be carefully untied, and difficulties which must be gradually solved, to elieet which the most patient considers. tion anti the undivided attention of that. House would be required. Were this lost sight of, the most flagrant injustice would be cont. rnitted while they aimed at justice, if they considered themselves to be carried away by an appeal to their feelings, without paying due regard to existing etreumstances. The Hon. Oen.. tleman had commenced his resolution by a recitation which he • (Mr-Canning) owned embarrassed him. His resolution set forth, " that a state of slavery was repugnant to the principles of the British Constitution and, of the Christian religion." Now God forbid that he, if he ventured to say this was not correct, should be understood to say that slavery was identified with - the . Constitution, or .with the Christian religion. He did not -say that the Slave Trade was consonant with the principles of the British Constitution, and still less was he disposed to say 'that it was consonant with the Christian religion. But though he did not say this, he must deny that the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman in the sense which he appeared anxious that it should convey was practically true. If the Hon. Gentleman meant to assert that the Constitution did not admit of Slavery in that part of the British Empire in which the Constitution had been framed, the fact could not be denied, but it made nothing for the object which he had in view. If he meant to say that the English Constitution had not tolerated for centuries another state of society than that which was preserved here, he stated that which could not be maintained ; and he (AIL Can ning) but imperfectly understood the distinction which it was intended to make between that which was morally true, and that Which was historically false. The Christian religion was framed to controul every thing that was vicious, by its operation on - individual conduet and individual conscience. But to bring its authority forward to aid a particular purpose, however laudable that purpose, seemed to him in the present instance an ill-timed'and improper reference. If this proposition were true, that the Christian Religion opposed itself to the prin cipal of slavery as to every perversion of the human mind, and in that sense might be held to condemn the practice of making' man the property of man, he could understand that St might be considered to oppose heat' to slavery, as to every thing else - that was erroneous or vicious : but if it weremeant by the Hon. *Gentlemen to convey an idea that Christianity and slavery could not be co-existent, again he must declare the statement to be historically false. The Christian Religion accommodated itself to all conditions of life instead of confining itself to one. It gilded the sceptre with glory and freedom, while it beamed consolation on to slave. It tended to harmonize all differ ences of condition, by , shewing that the objects of this world were trifling compared with those of the world to which it di. rected pious expectation. True it was that it was hostile to every abuse of power,; but it was not true that it opposed slavery in the sense in which the lion. Gentleman would have it understood that it did. Nothing in the Scriptures proved that the Christian Religion could not be co-existent with slavery. lie would therefore say "non men: hie aenno," and contend that the position of the lion. Gentleman was not completely defensible. One learned expounder of the Bible, Dr. Paley, if his authority were admitted to have weight, would at once decide the question between him and the Hon. Gentleman.— ' l'ilere the Right lion: Gentleman read a long extract front Dr. Paley, setting forth, that when the Gospel was first pro mulgated', slavery formed a part of the Civil Constitution of. most countries, yet there was no passage to be found in the • Sacred Writings which condemned it. When Christianity so licited admission into all the states of the earth, it declined in. ferferenco with the civil institutions of any. It did not thence follow that Christianity discountenanced the change from a 'bad to a better system, but it had not enjoined, such a cluing° as indispensable .to Christianity ; for to have done so would ."have been to set one half of the world against the other.— This would have caused many calamities; and, among them ' might be counted that of a bellini servile.l—The Honourable Gentleman could not wish fbr more than that in the dif. ~fusion of light and liberality the Christian Religion should be left to its sure and free operation ; but it could - not be for his own object desirable that those dangers should be incurred • which a precipitate and violent course would almost of neces sity provoke. They must recollect that Christianity , was first put forth to the world amidst the galling slavery of the Roman -Empire--a slavery not exactly of the some character, yet so galling and oppressive as to give the power of life and death.- - They all knew the queation of the fine Lady in Juvenal's 6th Satire, desiring . her husband to crucify the slave for not having fulfilled her wishes. It was not by its o.ane that Christianity worked the overthrow of that system, and it was therefore not tor the Parliament to put forward the name of Christianity now, for the purpoiee of dissolving the chains of modern slavery, but to allow its principles to act their unerring part in finish ing the last great work of emancipation. If slavery were re pugnitnt to the spirit of the Constitution, and to the spirit of Christianity, how could the lion. Gentleman pause for a moment in endeavouring to obtain its entire destruction ? Instead of which his own proposition 'was that of leaving to the one-half the certainty of continual slavery, while only providing for the gradual liberation of the other. But it was not entirely repug nant to the Constitution to have slavery exist in some parts of - the dominions, although its spirit might be in the abstract op. poled to it. It was because the spirit of the British Constitu tion and the spirit of Christianity were inimical to its exist ence that he should be inclined to leave them to work our eventual emancipation. Ile agreed with much that had 'fallen from the lionoursble Gentleman, and he. agreed in the necessity and justicesof neuch which he recommended to be dome; but he could not agree to preface their exertions' by resolutions so liable to misconstruction. If he were asked why he objected to the plan proposed, he would say that they must, in some degree, tionsider property as the creature of law, and ae therefore being entitled to the laws' protection. But if the Hon. Gentleman asked him whe ther he would have the progeny of the existing race be slaves, undoubtedly he should say No." If; then, he asked him, how he could reconcile this with . preserving the sacredness of property, his answer was, that in removing a great national stigma, in doing a great national justice, hp would not consent for that national stigma to be removed, for that national justice to be done, at the expence and loss of any single class or in terest, but that the burthen should be borne alike by all.— (Cheers !)—ilis opinion, made up with that of his colleagues after the most earnest and mature deliberation, was, that in oilier to work with more certain and secure effect, these ope rations had better be left in the hands of the Executive Go vernment. With that view he should move certain resolu tions for the adoption of the House, instead of those proposed by the Honourable Gentleman,. and they would differ only in this—that he would lay down the same principles more cau tiously, leaving them to act more gradually, and, as he be lieved, more securely. Although he deemed it expedient thus to treat the question upon general bases, yet he did not shrink from particulars such as the Hon. Member had gone into.— The lion. Gent, asked, whether it, were proper that there should be drivin g to th e field with the t art whip ? and he should say, certainly not. He was for abolishing in tutu that degrad ing punishment as applied to females. He would h ave th e Sabbath more strictly appropriated to elevation and religious instruction, and a greater time should be allowed for recrea tions, To those three points he was disposed to yield entirely; there were also other points upon which he wished for a more gradual change, but upon which he also agreed with the Hon. Genileman in principle. The right of holding property he would render still more sacred. lie agreed that the liberty of bequest should be extended to 'the slaves, if possible ; he agreed also that it was desiiable to allow of receiving their evidence, with certain restrictions and regulations. He agreed with the Honourable Gentleman, that public scales were not justifiable upon the moral consideration, but then a legal question superinduced over it upon the writs of venditioni ex ponas. There were many representatives of the property which this question involyttl, who having every thing at stake, were still anxious to ameliorate the condition of , the slaves, and to give them freedom whenever they believed it practicable and safe. Under these circumstances, he would ask whether it were not the course of .wisdom to deliberate with calmness, and - to act with caution, or Ishether, in the heat of angry dis cussion, some expressions might reit fall innocently there, but which being in rafted in another place, might produce conse quences which he was sure the Honourable Gentleman him ! self, though he did not expect them, would be anxious to , avoid; and, therefore, he trusted that he would be satisfied with his Resolutions. There was one seaseein which, indeed, they disagreed with the opinions of the lion. Gentleman. '"He thought the shortest and the best way of extinguishing slavery would be to name a day after which all who were born should be free; and he moreover thought that such a measure would satisfy the present race of slaves, and render them con tented with their situation. Now his (Mr. Canning's) opi nion was, not from any knowledge which he possessed of the wishes and feelings of that unhappy race but from all he knew of human nature, that It would be At least a matter, of doubt, whether pouring out the full blaze of liberty upon their eyes as being the portion of their children, would produce that effect, or whether its actual effect would not be a direct contrast to the supposed one. He only threw out these doubts as presenting themselves stronly to his mind ; yet they were but doubts, and if he, an d those who acted with him, could be ultimately convinced by the Honourable Gentle man that such doubts were not well founded, the channel of their conduct would still be open. But lie objected to giving any pledge of an abstract nature, and laying it down for the construction of those whose every feeling and passion would be awakened to force extreme, unanticipated, and con tradictory meanings upon the terms employed. In Parliament laying down those principles in such a manner, the enslaved would see what the eye of reason must see—unqual;fied eman cipation. They must not, therefore, lay down their principles too largely, or their qualifications would come too late. The course he would earnestly recommend to the House was, to bind up their qualifications id the body of their principles, so that no misapprehension could be pleaded, and no misinter pretation arise. To efreet this he should propose the following resolutions:— _ " Ist. That it is expedient to adopt efficient and decisive measures for ameliorating the condition of the slave popula tion of his Majesty's Colonies. " 2d. That in their determination to persevere In the timely, judicious ? and temperate enforcement of such measures this House will look forward to the gradual and progressive im provement in the condition of' that population, such as will prepare them for a participation'. in the civil rightsl and privi. leges enjoyed by the other daises of his Majesty's subjects. " 3d. That this House is anxious to accomplish such change, at the earliest period consistent with the well-being of the slaves themselves, the safety of the colon 4 es, and a fair and equitable regard to the rights of property involved." It these resolutions were agreed to by the House, he should follow them by another, which was (as was understood), that the Resolutions be laid on the table and printed. There was one other topic upon, which he would detain the House for a short time ; he meant the conduct to be pursued by the Execu tive. There were some Colonies in which the Crown held au thority without independent Legislatures ; and there the mea sures decided upon might be carried into effect without obstruc tion. What was done there, he trusted, would operate with the force of example upon theother colonies. He thought it was only fair to expect a real and earnest co-operation from the Colonial establishments. Looking to the extreme, and what he believed not to he the probable case, of any disinclination or opposition to the measures recommended by the executive, on the part of the local legislatures, he should not be slow in coming to Parlia ment to its assistance. Having said thus much, rather, he was anxious to persuade himself, calculated to close debate than to provoke it, _he should relieve the House from attending to him further. The Hon. Gentleman had perhaps pursued a some what different course ; but he had only to deal with the ques don as one of humanity, prompted by the undivided influence of moral feelings. Their conduct had also been actuated by motives of the same nature ; in fact their duty prescribed it ; but they had also to be guided by the consideration of prac tical results, and of the preservation of doubtf u l i n t erests __ They should not, however, be backward in endeavouring to recover the character of the country, by doing justice to those whom it had so deeply wronged ; at the same time having a just regard to the rights of those who, by no fault of them selves, were placed in a situation which they had inherited from their ancestors, and in which they had been encouraged by re peated Acts of Parliament. The very encouragement which Parliament had given them, had placed them in a situation of hazards and difficulties ;-hazards, therefore, which they (the House) had no right to aggravate, and difficulties which they had no-right to increase.—(Cheering.) Mr. WILBURFORCE said, that lie was at a loss to con. eelve how a preposition which was so much in the true spirit of Christianity and the British Constitution, should have met with any opposition. That unfortunate class of ' men who were the objects of this motion, were British subjects, and to what tribunal could they appeal for relief more propnly, than the British Parliament? And it was impossible to state that case correctly, without going into details. He rejoiced, however, that his Honourable Friend had not labour ed totally in vain, for it was an important concession which the Right Ilouourable Gentleman had made of abolishing the punishment of women, the abolition of the Sunday slave-market, and the dispensing with the working of slaves on Sundays. But it was a duty incum bent upon his Majesty's Government, to observe the prac tical effects of Government in the Colonies, and apply such remedies to it as might, be necessary; on these grounds the discussion of the question was at all times proper, and as to the danger which might be apprehended from it to the colonies, former experience had disproved the probability of it, for reports of former discussion, of this question had been published in the colonial newspapers, and yet no insurrection followed. The condition of the slaves was ultimately con nected with the Government of the West India Colonies.— There were upon the table returns of' the population of the %Vest India Islands, from which it appeared that a great de crease was still yearly taking place. This decrease had been attributed to the excessive labour imposed upon the slaves.— It was idle to caleulaie that the prohibition to import slaves would be effectual, whilst slavery was suffered to exist in the SVest Indies. Ile admitted, that it would be better if the slaves , were prepared gradually for rise enjoyment of freedom ; but unless the legislature interfered, no bene.. ficial improvement could take place. Certainly, if they were so converted, it would be as much for the benefit of the planters as the slaves themselves. Surely the legislature might sanction some of the preliminary steps; a proposition was made thirty years ago, by Lord Melville, for bestowing upon them, partially, some of the blessings of freedom, which if it had been adobted, there would not be a slave in the West In. dies. But the question was whether the changes were to be made by the British Parliament, or the Colonial Legislatu.e. He had no hesitation in saying, that if these latter took up tie matter, he would prefer them. But how was that to be ex pected pec . Had the House no experience on the subject ? It was a fact, that the colonial legislatures had always opposed every proposition for setting the slaves free. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would feel the necessity of effecting some re form in the state of the colonies, and that he would feel him self responsible for seeing the Reform into effect, as these per sons had no other protection to claim, but that of the British Parliament. lie hoped, however, the matter would be mended in one way or other. In one part orhis Honour able Friend's statement, he differed from him, namely that in which he compared the slaves of the West Indies to the Helots of old. In the condition of the two classes, here was this broad distinction in favour of the latter; that when they distinguished themselves by any particular good con duct, they were generally rewarded with their manumission, which was rarely done in modern times. It was not enough that the changes should be recommended to the colonial legis lature, but the Government should see them effected. It was their duty to do so, and it was quite consistent with the spirit of the constitution, that they should insist upon having those changes carried into effect.--( Hear I)—He congratulated his Hon. Friend upon what he had gained by his mstion. He was in a much better situation than when he came into the House. He hoped, therefore, after the pledge given by Government, that his Hon. Friend.would not press his motion, but confide in that pledge, that thasubjeet should be taken into the earliest and fullest consideration. Mr. C. ELLIS said, that he always felt the difficulty of op posing the fascinating eloquence of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, but he felt in a still stronger degree the duty of supporting the rights of that class to which he belonged. He did not stand there the champion of slavery, nor were the pre sent planters to be held responsible for the establishment of that system which they were compelled to uphold. They found themselves in possession of property acquired by their ances tors or predecessors, and amongst a population with whom a certain scheme of society had long been carried into effect.— All they had to do was to administer their power with feeling and humanity, carried as far as their own safety and the secu rity of their property would allow. if they had not done so, they were answerable to a much higher tribunal than that House. The Slave Trade had begun, not for the benefit of the Colonies, but for the commerce and manufactures of the country. Be fore slaves were employed in the Colonies, this country was engaged in the traffic, and carrying them for foreigners, as a common use of ships and seamen. The establishment of sla very in the Colonies, he contended, was- the fault of the Go vernment, not of the planters. Before the Ijouse came to any strong measures upon this subject, it was bound to reflect and weigh the consequences. Liberty was the greatest bless ing that man could possess; yet it was liable to abuse if conferred on those who were not fit to receive it, and to be abused to the injury of those on whom it was conferred. Supposing that amongst those negroes, where Christianity had but recently and imperfectly bden inculcated, some should fall back to their old, superstitions, and take to mur der and plunder, after having been emancipated. Should they in such a case have done their duty ? He should con ceive the duty of the House to have been of a very different character. He believed it to consist in bringing the slaves under the gradual and complete influence of the Christian Religion, and then they would be fitted for emancipation.— The Honourable Member then alluded to a proposition which he carried through the House upon the subject in 1797, and to the progressive measures which had been taken at other periods, for ameliorating the condition of the Blacks.- 1 With regard to a repeal of the law of renditioni exponas, he had no doubt that if the legal difficulties Which appeared to present themselves to such a repeal, could be surmounted by the Attorney-General, or the Noble and Learned Person who presided in the Court of Chancery, no objection would be made to it by the planters. Many improvements however had taken - place without Parliamentary interference. The Coro ners Bill .had been paired by the Assemblies, directing In quests to be-held on the bodies of slaves, and the purity of the office of Coroner was ensured as far as it could be by a liberal salary. But the principal improvement was in the condition of the slaves themselves. They were, in general, much more Orderly:and more industrious than they hail been. They at tended divine service in great' numbers, and marriage among them was very frequent. lie mentioned these facts merely to spew that Improvement had actually taken place ; for really, t o some of die proposals of the lion. Member he had no sort of ob jection. For instance, the proposal to secure property to the slaves. To this he did not apprehend any difficulty would be offered. As to the driving system, he was convinced it had been much exaggerated, in the statement. He did not believe the whip was generally used as a stimulus to labour, but merely as a symbol of authority. Indeed the West India- Proprietors attached but little importance to it. To the proposal respect. ing the punishment of females there would be. no objection, that lie was aware of. To that for rendering the evidence of slaves admissible he believed there was no objection ; but the adoption of this proposal must be understood with considera ble qualification, and must, at all events, be preceded by rell. gious instruction. Much stress had been laid on the inattention which had been shown to religious instruction amen the slaves, but it should be recollected that the Colonial Clergy were nominated by the Governors, who were appointed by the Crown. The only share which the Colonists had in these matters was the payir.g of the salaries. They were therefore, not to blaMe for the inattention in question, though their liberality in the payment had too often proved a tempts.' tion to an abuse of the patronage. He by no means intended to insinuate that any abuse of this description prevailed at present. On the contrary, he believed that the Church pa. tronage was now most judicioulsy exercised ; but it must not be forgotten that the present state of morals among the Slaves ' was the fruit of seed long Mince sown • and, at all events, he apprehended the remedy was not to be found in emancipation. Ile did not even think that mere emancipation would have the least tendency to correct it; for the House were not to be in formed that the greatest degree of li cent i ousness was com patible with political freedom. He considered that the course proposed by the Right Honourabl e G en tl eman was the wisest, as well as the most just. He had no doubt that it would meet with the co-operation of the Colonial As semblies, nor that the very able and statesman-like speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman would materially assist towards the insuring of that ce-operation. Indeed, this course had' been also pointed out by a most able writer, who was himself friendly to the cause of emancipation ; and had been glanced at by the Report of the African Institution for the year 1008. These authorities had recommended that slavery should be abo. lished by , a change of manners an d t h e encouragemen t o f manumission, rather than by compulsory enactments ; that it should be accomplished by insensible progress; that it should not be mowed down by the scythe of Legislation, but should be gradually rooted out by stalks collected by individual hands. Mr. W.M. SMITH gave credit to the Hon. Member who had just sat down for many of his sentiments. He agreed with him that the abolition of slavery should be gradual; but then he thought it should be certain ; and the proposal which had been made that night by the Right Honourable Gentleman rendered it uncertain. He begged to call the attention of the House, and that of the ltight lion. Gentleman opposite, to a circumstance to which he did not appear to have given its de served importance. In June, 1816, that House had voted an Address to the Prince Regent, requesting his Royal High ness would be graciously pleased to use his influence in the British Colonies towards bettering the condition of the negro slaves, by giving them moral and religious instruction, and increasing their comforts; and to this Address his Royal High ness had returned a most gracious answer, promising so to use that in fl uence. Now, either th e pl anters did not attend to the •reeommendation of the Crown, or, if they did, they must have notions differing very wide ly from those of that House as to what was comfort and what was not. Ile would ask the Hon. Member who had just sat down, whether any one of the propositions to which he had himself admitted there could be no objection, had ever been put into a train of accomplishment by the West India Proprietors ? When he looked at the papers which had been laid on the table, respecting the condition of Negro Slaves, he was not a little surprised to find that no return had been made from Jamaica; and the House was therefore obliged, as to that Island, to take the statement of the Hon. Member, drawn probably, in a great measure from that of others. He found, however, on reference to a Jamaica Gazette of last November, that the Committe reported there was no at tendance of the negroes at places of divine worship, except in few large Chapelries. Indeed, the condition of the negroes lie was satisfied was as much backward in some respects, as it was fcrward in others, and in particular, in,anumission had been rendered more diflicult. The lion. Member almost appeared to protest against the right of interference on the part of Parlia ment. Mr. ELIAS said, he had applied himself to the policy and the consequence Ot interference. Mr. W. SMITH said, if the arguments of the Hon Member in this view of the question were allowed to prevail, the work of abolition would proceed slowly indeed. When they were told of the slowness with which the abolition of Villeinage in Europe had proceeded, was it to be inferred that, in the 19th century, they were to make no greater progress in the aboli tion of :Slavery ? For his own part he should always protest against the doctrine of man being, under any circumstances, the property of ma n ; an d unt il t h is id ea s h ou ld be altogether done away with, he feared the march of amelioration would pro.. ceth meat slowly. Before he sat down, he could not but ex press his wish that the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated more fully ard explicitly, his views as to the length of time he pro. posed, and the kind of security he ()trued. Mr. BRIGHT appealed to the dispassionate sense of the House whether the condition of slavery were in many islands gradually improving. There had been some misrepresentations published on this subject, whence it would appear that some of ;he Colonies had adopted restrictions on granting freedom to slaves, almost amounting to a prohibition of manumission. The fact was, that these fines on manumission hhd been in St. Kitt's and St. Vincent's remitted, or front being from 3001. to 2001. had been redacted to a mere annuity of 101., 151. or 181. per annum. In Tobugo, the line was entirely remitted. In De merara, Tortola, and Trinidad, all the large fines on manumis sion had been remitted ; so that in 'most cases, these fines were now remitted or abolished. He was hence emboldened to ques tion the inference that the heavy tines now existing on granting freedom to Slaves, almost -amounted to a prohibition of the , practice ; in fact, West India Traders had been excessively ill treated by many persons who had written on the subject, and more particularly by a' Mr. Macauley, who wrote a work on this subject. The fact was, that if any important change could 'be effected in the state of the West India Slaves, the West India Planters would be glad to throw away the whip altogether.— Such was the opinion of a very intelligent and worthy medical man, who had been a long time a resident in those islands. For his own part, he must assert, that as far as he was acquaninted with West India Proprietors, he believed they were actuated by the sincerest desire to improve and ameliorate the condition of the Slave population. Mr. ROSE said, that he had felt, as far as he was connected with the West India Islands, through a small estate which he possessed in Jamaica, the greatest difficulty in procuring fur his slaves any religious instruction from any other quarter ex cept. through the Wesleyan Societies. On his own estate, the scale of punishment in a very short period had sunk so low, as not to exceed in the course of a twelvemonth above ten in stances in 150 males, and one instance in above 100 females.— He hoped, through the medium of religious instruction, the objectionable practice of severe punishment would be altogether abolished, as already some islands were opened to the %V esley ans, against whom alone any objection existed. He was strongly induced to hope the work of reforming and improving the con dition of slaves in these Colonies would be effected, if en couragement were given and funds created by West India Pro prietors for the use of the Wesleyan, Moravian, and other religious Missionaries. Mr. SYKES objected to the evidence of Mr. Williamson on this subject, who it was plain was a friend to the system of Colonial Slavery. It was impossible to look at the Jamaica Gazette without perceiving that slaves were excited to action, called to their meals, and even to their miserable repose, by the exercise of the whip ; and that they and their little property were continually exposed to sale with the cattle and furniture on the estate. He was happy to find that the business was about to fall into the hands of Government. They could do much more; perhaps, to alleviate the condition of slaves than any who were not official persons ; and he hoped they would take care that the Local Legislatures should not be permitted to defeat their benevolent intentions. Mr. MARRYATT said, he had recently had occasion to re fer to some documents from the island of Dominica, and he was enabled to state that slave testimony had been rendered admissible by an Act of the Assembly passed in the year 1013. —(Hear !)--This had been found to be attended with no incon venience, and he had no doubt- the measure would be adopted by the other Islands. The Hon. Member for Norwich would probably ask if any thing had been done in consequence of the Address of that House to the Crown in the year 1816 ? He (Mr. M.) confidently answered, there had. It was very ex traordinary that the Hon. Member had not read the Reports of the different Governors to the Crown in consequence of the recommendations which followed that Address. Or, if the Hon. Member had read those Reports, it was extraordinary that he had not collected the fact that great improvement had taken place in the condition of the Slaves.—[The Hon. Mem ber here referred to the Report from the Governor of Domi nice, stating that the Slaves of that Colony were well treated, and that the Planters were inclined to attend to any recom mendation from the Government' as to their future treatment.] A similar Report had been made by the Governor of Hondu ras, according to whose account it appeared that the Slaves were allowed the produce of their Saturday's labour, and that the Sunday was considered as their own. This Gover nor had said that he was, when he first went out, " a per feet 'Wilberforce as to slavery."—(A laugh.)—Reports to the same effect had been made from St. Christopher's, Nevis, Montserrat, St. Lucia, Tobago, and Jamaica. Theplanters of the latter island were merely apprehensive of too eudden a ' change in the manners of the slaves. It was a fact that many of them preferred their present condition to manumitting them selves, or accepting manumission when it was offered to them. The authorities to which he had referred were not those of the rather the as original proprietors th emse l ves , but of governors. Indeed he be lieved that the slav es of the West India islands are better off than th e l a b ourers o f t hi s country . With regard to the two motions before th e H ouse , h e t h oug ht t h e difference a between Motion theme twhoatniltats g t i o ve j the us e t nd gro in on v d iew of . thoughtHe s dissatisfation, and that the Amendment would cause good will between the planters and their slaves, and induced the grati tude of the latter towards their masters. He should support the Amendment. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he could not allow this question to be finally disposed of, without taking care that he should not be understood to be a party to what he thought would prove a delusion though he sincerely believed that it would not be a delusion intended by the Right lion. Gentleman who had been uniformly a warm and able advocate for the abolition of slavery. He (Mr. Broughtn) could not see any means of carrying into effect those admirable doctrines which were somewhat slieculatively advanced in the Amendm ent . T wo Addresses from both Houses of Parliament had, at different times been presented to the Crown, praying that it would . take measures for ameliorating the condition of the Negroes. Those Addresses had been most erraciously received by the Crown ; and yet, seven y ears a ft er the last Address, they were not any more forward than they were originally. He was told however that his distrust of Colonial Legislatures was misap plied; and his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Bris tol (Mr. Bright) was well content to take the testimony of the slave owners themselves as to their humanity. His Hon. and Learned Friend had also told them not to trust to a book called " Negro Slavery," anti had brought a grave charge against the author of that book, a Mr. Macaulay, whom he had long known as a friend; and whose conduct was above all praise. After a warm and eloquent eulogium on Mr. Macaulay, and his exertions in the sacred cause of abolishing slavery, the Honourable and Learned Member observed that, in the case of the particular charge brought against that Gentleman respecting his misquoting Mr. Cooper, the answer was short and decisive. Mr. Cooper had himself corrected the press sheet of that part of Mr. .111acauley's work.—(Hear, hear!)— He (Mr. B.) was quite satisfied his Hon. and Learned Friend had no intention to bring an unfounded charge against Mr. Ma caulay. The Hon. and - Learned Gentleman lamented that he could not see the treatment of the slaves to be so admirable as an Honourable Member lied described. He admitted that Go vernor Maxwell was humane, but if the inhabitants of Domi nica were as humane, why was the Governor presented by the Grand Jury ? It was said 211 was perfect, and that the slaves were so delighted with their condition that they had no wish to change. Ile had seen in the Jamaica Paper something like a contradiction to that statement. It was not reasonable to suppose they wished for no change in their situation, because he found not less than fifty runaway slaves advertised— The Honourable and Learned Gentleman read the advertise ment, and also one for a runaway female slave named Celia; her person was described as being marked and branded with the letters P. IV. S. He denied that ancient history could furnish any cases of slavery so disgusting as the system of sla very in the Colonies. No one could find anything like the bru tal force anti use of the whip which distinguished the treatment of slaves in the West Indies, who were reduced to a footing with the brute. It was said however, on a former occasion, when the subject came under the consideration of that House, that the unfortunate negro would be enlightened by reli gion. They were told of the kind Governor, the humane master, and the amiable driver. All these topics were urged to render the generous efforts of humanity made for the libera tion of the unfortunate slaves unsuccessful. The statement that slaves were under the controul of old masters was incorrect. The West India Planter was not like the English landholder, Nest In dia property was always subject to fluctuation—masters of plantations might be humane, but it appeared on in qu i r y, that it was not the interest of masters to behave well to slaves. Persons too often purchased Colonial property as a specula - tion, and to make the most of their purchase they were tbs_ posed to flog their slaves, under the expectation of making the property more productive. The Postmasters in England often flogged their horses on a principle of profit and loss. The more the animals could do, the greater was the interest of the merciless owner. He might ask what had been done since the abolition to ameliorate the condition of the slaves ? His lamented Friend (Si, S. Romily) put that question, and no satisfactory answer could be given ; and all the advocates of em a n c ip a ti on h a d been bitterly disappointed. After dwelling upon these topics at considerable length, he expressed a hope that his lion. Friend would not quit the subject until he produced a law to make all male children born in the Colonies free; and con eluded by hoping that this and other similar regulations would be enacted. _ _ _Mr. ManitvaTT explained. Mr. BERNAL thought his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member for Winchelsea, had made an invidious attack on the owners of colonial property, in comparing thtm to Post-mas teri. He could prove that acts of cruelty in the West India colonies had been prosecuted and punished. It was unworthy the talent of his Learned Friend to state that negroes were branded and treated like cattle. Was it candid or fair to call in the aid of ridicule which could only cast unmerited obloquy on the unfortunate planters. Run-away slaves had always been found by advertisement, and were secured in workhouses. It was well known that in Jamaica 41 persons of the black popu lation having claim to freedom, could proceed by law against any one who detained them, and recover dantages. Mr. ALA INING explained. Mr. BARING shewed that the statements as to the situation of the slaves had been greatly exaggerated, and entered at some length into the general question that it was not one on which this country could form a correct judgment, and of course the greatest circumspection ought to be used in legislating upon it. Lord ALTIfORP strongly condemned the present system, observing that he wanted nothing more to prove the necessity of interfering in behalf of these wretched beings, when they were -content, of their own free choice, to doom their progeny to the perpetual lash of a brutal master—their daughters to his lust.—(Hear, hear!) Mr. F. BUXTON made a general reply. Mr. Secretary CANNING explained that he had abjured the idea of perpetual slavery, being convinced that a time must arrive when the progeny of slaves must be free. But he had guarded himself, whatever might be his feeling, front saying any thing specific as to when or how, because lie had no pre cise plan in his mind, and also because he did not wish to say any thing that night, which he might hereafter be required to qualify. Mr. F. BUXTON said, that under these considerations, with the concurrence of his friends, he had only to express his ex , treme satisfaction at the decided manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman had declared himself, and ask permission to withdraw his motion, with liberty to renew it, should any mis understanding arise. The Motion was then withdrawn, and the other Orders o f the Day having been disposed, the ouse adjourned at HALF. PAST ONE. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. MOCSE OF COMMONS. Joris, 15° die Maii, 1823. GAs LlGHTS—Brighton, and York—Bills reported ; to be in grossed. Woolwich—Bill read a third time, and pas sed. Po LlCE—Gorbals---Bill reported ; to be ingrossed. DRAINAGE—EIy—Two Petitions of certain Persons, against. Deeping Fen—Bill reported, to be ingrossed. ROADS—Okehampton—Bill read a third time, and passed. Tarporley, and tVansford and Bourne—Bills reported, to be ingrossed. A LLagorcr's DIVORCE—BiII read h third time, and passed. SLAVERY—SeveraI Petitions for the abolition thereof. COAL. DUTlES—Petitions from Bkaunton, Bovey, Norwich' and Ugborough, against the Duties on Coals carried coastwitte. MESSAGE FROM THE Logos—That they have ag reed tO Quorum Magistrates Bill—Union Duties Bill-1 minster, 'Wisheach, Wibsey Foot Bank, Keighley and Kendal, Ha worth and Kighley, Eccleshall, &c. Bishop's Waltham, Knsresborough, Melton Mowbray, Newcadle.under.Lyme and Blyth Alarsh, Bridgford Lane Canterbury, Bill—and Wo rceste r Greenfield, and Uttoxeter Roads Bills—Rochd a l e , Belfast, and Dublin (hs Light Bills—Hof' and Dr -beck (Westm or land) Inclo sure Bill—lloffman's Naturalizati on Bridge Bill, without amendment; and to Kettering, and AVadsley and Langset Roads Bills—Thame (Oxford) lncin sure Bill—Masters and Servants Bill—and Liverpool Gas Light Bill, with amendments. That they have passed a Bill, i nt i t uled, "An Act for effectuating an exchange of an Estate in the parish of Stone, s in the County of Stafford (to which Ann Unet t, an i n fant, i entitled in tail), for and Estate of greater valtte, belonfing " John Wilkes Unett andiElizabeth his w ife, and Letnce Cnett. Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable the Reverend Richard Buck, Clerk, and Margaret his wife, an d the survi vor of them, to grant Leases of a moiety of the Coal Mines within the Estates devised by the Will of John Hull, de ceased, in the County of Lancaster." Also, a Bill, intituled, " An Act for exchanging anEstate in the County of Wilts, whereof John Biddulph, Esq• and Augusta his wife, and Philip Jones,Esq. an d Sarah his wife, have joint power of disposition, for Estates in the Counties of Warwick and Worcester, settled by t he will of Santli Richards, in bust for the same parties and their children.' LiI.AT Es—Buck's, and Biddulph's—Bills read a first time. FOOTPATHS—Two Petitions of James White, jun. of Plyi mouth, for the establishment of Footpat hs on the sides o Roads, to lie on the table. LAW MERCHANT—SeIect Committee appointe., '6 fd3 in rire into the state of the Law relating to Goods. Wares, and ler: chandize, intrusted to Merchants, Agents, or Factors, the effect of the Law upon t h e interests of Commerce,anu "' report the result of that inquiry, with their opinion` laans to the House :"—Power to send fo r p ersons, paper num r e " cords ; five to be the quorum. ORDERS of the DAY lor TIIIS DAY. 1. Joint Tenancy (Ireland) Bill—Further cons iderat i o n of Report. 2 76. .. 3 coG f r as mea te nt: rs sissaessi an ri d oesn A s p (ins p e ren lold, t a im nd s ) Bill —Committee. 8. Grand 3. Tithes Composition (Ireland) Bill—Committee. 4. Commutation of Tithes (Ireland) Bill—Committee. on or 5. Confirmations (Scotland) Bill—Turther considerati • Report. Report. ration of Report. 9. Church Rates (Ireland) Bill—Committec. 10. Registry of Vessels Bill—Committee . Jury Presentments slß(ilDiirelanill_s—ceoFounrßdtliiincir_eaFctiouinorthgsi 12. Customs Duties Act [59 Geo. 3, c. 521 —Report thereupon. 11 1 97 5 .. . Tc 1 i i rau r .p a sr y siNnetapereoi al k:tale c r l lrTic: 3 unt i ces e ans a to n Den s esie — i.nfe: Co ill—ice: m :TtTp n ino l iT i gin t o t oß ee Nvi . el 13. Supply—Postponed Resolutions of 30th April to be cons. dared. . d er er" co ti ns un ide of.. 14. Supply—Committee. • 11. Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Bill—Further consideration of 16. Linnen Manufacture (Scotland) Bill.—TiCiolmsmpitAteflet...be Imouse 18. Silk Manufacture Bill—Second 20. Supply—Report. ;RA:s 7 cion ß ng e d. ad n in e g ad . jog. 21. Commercial Credit (Ireland) Bill—Committee. 22. Unlawful Oaths (Ireland) Bill—Committee. JOUTlllrient 0 to Wednesday next. NOTICES GIVEN YESTERDAY. 1. Mr. Huskisson—To e llif tl a t y e Duties on Pm's itn "'" mi l tyn ed in Foreign Ships with those payable on the like goo , s •--- ported in British Ships, in all cases where British Ships are treated with the same reciprocity in Foreigb States. 2. Mr. Fyshe Palmer—Bill to enable the Public Brewer to re: tail !leer in smaller quantities than four gallons and a hal?, trovided the same be not consumed on the premises of the Brewer. Tuesday, May 27. 1. Mr. Lushington—Civil Cottin,,ireiteies, Mr. Wilmot Horton—Bill'fo i r establishment of Civil Courts in the Colony of Honduras. Friday, May 30. ' Miscellaneous Estimates. (In Committee of upplY). P e " ferred from May.l6. ing for reception of his late ur—* 2. Mr. Goulburn—Remaining Irish Estimates. (In Commit tee of Supply.) 3. Mr. Goulburn—Report Supply ild• 4. Mr. Chancellor of the Eieheq - • e Vote for a new Btt Printing, and deferred .'Majesty s , tish Museum. (In Committee of Supp l y' ) Monday, June 2. .a ration the Lord Archibald Hamilton—To take into consi e ove state of the County Representation in Scotland. (To m , Resolutions.) PRIVATE BILL--SEcorrn READING for THIS DAY. I ibrary at the 13:1-, 17In . PRICE or FOREIGN STOCKS rt. LONDON, ND' V AT ONE O'CLOCK. Five per Cents. 88. {Six per Cents. 00. Five per Cents. (31etallic) 00. Ditto New 78g. Neapolitan l" Five per Cent. .Bonds, 00. .1 Scrip, 00. Austrian Five per Cents. (Metallic) 00. {Five per Cent. Ilonds,. 00. Spanish ' New Ditto, 351. Scrip, 00 disc. Prussian 1 Five per Cent. Bonds, 84. . 1 Ditto iVew, 83. banish Five per Cent. Bonds, 90. Chili 68g. Colombian Six per Cent. Bonds, 07. Peruvian New Loan, 00. Bank Shares A.V.I ss. American Six per C:nt. 90-98. Five per Cent. 95i-97. Three per Cent. 7(1. French Rumim T G r o eas v. flank n y k . StockDockb:P4l. per ee C rr PRICE cent. nen O nt IRISH ___STOC Di g.,: t f l A p Y er l c 3 : npt. . c.. t . . v 3, : 9 1: A i Stock, 3.} per et 89114 ---DittoStock. ........... 039 GD:ori.dned..esebtra.enweatildel;artit.on,64per ct. Royal Canal Stock .......•• Gov. Deb. 5 per cent. City Debenturells, :, Do. ..... . . 6 per rent. cent... Lying • Hospital 4 per ct. 5 per cent• ............... per s cent. per Water Deb. 5 per et. w, Exchange on London, ?gay 19, al.. BRIDGE TO-MOROW. Evening, 5 4 minute* After 7' iilol-1 WATER AT LONDO Morning. 26 minutes after 7.