The Sun. — London, England, 1846-03-07 00:00:00

on t bs t. G er. OsSeel ,d Cbid e a 0:3 a&inL ti i —.et! Dill; 'cessal non Ile": e to"' P r ea' . t ' 0 'wog' ice Yeg; l o ate_ or. WOW' auents b e ----.....................111......... - . .. - • . ----''''-- the i t CaUSe the Lord Chief Justice had objected to confine principle. He . wanted to know if any Noble Lord in that _ ll4 _ l re: e l' s : l i r : t° Ireland and t o o n s w erateanenso Il e coanen 1, dolls, would give the Lord Lieutenant power to transport a Ifut tre tim eostpene the contiderat ion of his amendmeot nil non supposed to be of a dangerous character. Ile was sure 1 4 am ore t wla en he It general proposed to bring theist forward as part that no Nob'c Lord would grant such a pewen They were R ay to et, measure. He did not thick tint the bast too much imbued by English feelings to do so. It they were esusio with the , amendments was to take them alt into really to transport a man for his bad character, better for them to er-tlon too. th '4ake out his oe srs The accused person had in this case to do so avowedly on that ground; and there oueht to be a +. fittOd,t lf)ei:e, _sais tm_ fi s:3 t s i ta e t e s T s e i n o t nT ile had to tell his own atom. ' searching inquiry into his character. Let him suppose the case o. ghttrwas ta :t: was to or the magistrate, as the case a !over, or that of a man going to see his pried, and teat either ..4ether it a be disehargel. li he did not satisfy them, of them were suspected to be going to join a party of . SS bite :sea be c ommitted fir trial at the discretion of the magi; . boys, who were to meet that niohn and were ace-twit:set) , ar • was in his opinion a great improvement, hut res•ed. Tee coincidence of sued a meeting (in case there was wto re _ , mourned to so great an improve-met-it or safeguard • one) would be certain to condemn them before a jury. Ilestion'uner t ransportation unnecessary was quite another • These were the su•-picious circumstances which the !Ka tr • While he was on his lee's, he ' woold soy one word N , hie Lord thought justified the passing of tels o i 4ns Port at' t t .—a. He ion, as that punishment' had great w e ight i n i such a clause. lie did not distrust the tooted K . had heard from persons limn all parts ,it this juSgss of the land. who were to try the earth's, bat ha would ethe gseat in ,g g . d ' in . that the tear of that inflow on !lad ask hose coula the judges pronounce upon character? How sial"kitslo n -...eet in deterring the people irom th e could they proctiea? Was there to be a public investigation? nate, whichof crime. He also wished to s is7tlest another ,It treemed to him quite impossible that such a mode of pro thille'Pei .01fali,11. did tw i t , require tube siroiloht r ote s . r d , th e cewling could be jus , ifitid. A mats petfectly innocent crate as tea Y eerso He eeld it to to the utmost importance• • meter vet the reaen of ;he Bill as the mast gurity, and + such so l*4l ii. Iro 4 Who tor atss offence shoald have h, en , en _ a:o-nart might i.e e,onder,n,: to the :severest punishment, and ;betas" tend to troll:et tatioto should not ;lore tsar i n t e r- not :troy iminseit, lost all . essetiding, on him. He thought it t issiee steitt ene sentence aid its execuotto. The petomn or inoostowas that their Lorilsities would sanction such a clause. It t▪ weed have sent at to ." s so ,, t h e oioa it, ,h e „tt unit Let ant e supposts a man esiettol - roes his lend under the clear the-sodeeteieSi.eiemor+e. tLe effect . of . cieeraancoe tit, mete:owl, a• ce system.. and onto be toopsesoid 0 0, - tose . f e e e l n iti a g r : whichl w v , n o l ,_ . tik e 10 6 6 :, no thou the eonomission of iike (sift-owes for been eetert :seed by such a man as loo n as ri t nature . , r t : t sies with ‘s i t . oe, tom' double the Oussislina"rit net itetoon • "ha' it was—if. under such eirutunaretes, although innocent In e ' i et sh oel l i at celerity of execution. G o d f or bid that th e ' and uottfe n dit t g, the actual victim of oppres ion was tran tilerf Lind hurrii-d away to New Sou. h Wales or Van purled for his expression of strong feeling. would it :ani se s of hero , e the Crown had time to exercise its pre- I not be most m- nstrous ?—( Hear, hear. ) fhe system would es,kdhaee mercy; b ut h e st i ll thttutstlir that such a co ur se ails., have the effect of lowering the character of the police in Th e y P ro digious effect in intireasing the - cars i ,f cruet- ! Ireland, inasmuch !ms it would create a system of espionne de ttidtty yea ail knew what had to:pp:oleo in YO,kit:ire F. , ,rne ' grolieo to that body. ;sect celeelated to im i nar th 'r rffienency. iue,ekis dais, ges Timere was a c monnice between a father : It ,i - ie e low was ti; is this power to the poliee, it would utterly lII' qe d ito ' thter - to charge a person' oa h rape. Th a t seas ; destroy the liberty of the subject. Neither did he think this sl oe , 0 effeet tot s th ey '-- •in the mor.iing. Between tame mod ten power shook be given to the lees! magistracy, though he had a acre -iave their evidence oil the trial. Bs :en o'clorik t great mespeet iir them, without its being greatly abosed. 1 6 ,ere Re nd jury saw toe need silty of a vertliirt of ansuotal, 1 Toy airs to beets commueication with the Lord Li , utenant, kV if the Perjury its the costs. Too y, LC We , i . e tni e a i but he had tso teat is means . of knots leg the character Of the. th e that th gratid jot y had bum, diecharown :suit, ~n t,ing ! man that the Joehee. I lie aceused party, if convicted, o tto e ase t o ih. eY were not, ire desired them to (ms dirt' was to b' , sent from ,her dock to tho ship. and r e ir bill et _e, fa' her arid ft tuishter. The grand ju - y ,eat in ti - terefoN. 5 , n it Fewer or mesos of appal to the % el ? th ree e ieveti o'clock, the prietme , s were ;rot at I w e lvs, i Lord Leuterisitt ii td he ? These were ihe reesens they Vs ee sioni ee s weie ou toetr way fool' the gee; ii, s e t a, i n I that infloonced Hai is Oitiking. 01 , irCe10:1 to thi' clause. th r .: 4 t4 ti ,' W the execu.aon of their sentenc e . Every o ne 'lf it was the objsc, of the Bill to enforce obedience to the pro a eir eei i°e northern circuit would ehnit, that for tee next claination, sueely twelve moot hs' imprisons:nen', wi Is in, :I H 5 t h ad :th, effects o f the ro - n0 ,j,„,,, o f 'hi s • pun •,),_ labdUr, W.,121,i , :t, amik' puniehinent ft beteg out at night. I thd r4 enti o a ne l ui orY effect in unintahteg the amount of crime, a snore strintrent clause were required, let it be inserted, but st e .'lltne re ef ti'at fact as he oely wished to show the great let it be so woreltel as not to endanger the liberty of an into atiel,sinto,eit. " ects produced he promptituSe in the infletion of cent man, and perhaps the lives of his family. No man was th e 'ltal te „ lle wished a l so th a t th e Executive Government more opposed to agrarian outrage than he was; but there tl ei "tap raet ':r! that when a murder had been committed, were ample means of framing clauses to . meet . such cases as tt t a!ise °f ee ' ti'r executing the sentenee as near as possible t o men about found vi anderieg about at night with arms con tot*" Pr tei n'" should he revived. He kn e w th e b o l e ff ec t cealed their persnis, or other suspicious circumstances. so ne Plie e et „L Principle in Lancashire where the ex,euticir e s What was the real cause of this system of agrarian outrage ? tiii7of t h e 'ne end of the county, probably distant from the at hat was the bottom of it all? They all knew it was the Asti bit no , e ritne, and time Westmoreland peasant had t h e rooted hatred of the poor to the law, the result of long ages of k ei l'th eee ; an example. He would only say, in concl us io n , gross misgovernment ; a nd they had been told by hi g h autho nit, U ggestions we re f o ll owe d t h e e ff ec t wou ld b e a di- rity that in Ir e l an d th ere was one l aw f or th e r i c h an d an weir irl n e unt of crime. • other fir the poor, and long ages of misrule had con- S es ti4 !lleT re d t sh ;Ps then went into Committee on the /3ill. vineed him of the fact ; and in order to eradicate that el t i s yr e a Ilst oi e s iatise being read, feeling would they pass such a measure as this? Would these tois ed whi c h , u , °HAM referred to the amendments in this cases of oppression which he had pictured, and which it would tin e to pe ine Lord Chief Justice (who was absent) had in. be impossible to avoid under this Bill tend to eradicate this berPositi 4 P ° ses He Lord Brougham could not agree to feeling? woultl it not re-her tend to increase the evil, and tn i e lltir ed ,' 1 that the testimony of three magistrates Ob too lii exasperate the f•eings of the people? Wauld it not rather be 14,.„.ti et ee the,: wdiestkvistorefore district was deelarel. 1 f th e y waited till better to rely on , he ord.reare taw of the laild ? He knew he l w etbs o t e , sent up evidence of a district being in a state soots"! he met by the argument that this was no new measure. might fail in vets mans instrice Rut that WA, an motet tonal teassn why he would oppose it, lo d Iar I ' ANI IICA *a ' ' ' • . . 3* e ee , in g ~ 'SDI: entirety agreed in the opinton twat because such measures never Laird any other effect in Ireland amongst . the people of that e i °` a district should be left to the Lend Lieu- than to create a worse ieehng colostry against the Government by which they were ruled. • 41I tlu il es il t 2, 1J ,G, HAM thought that the interference of three He begged to apologise for having trespassed upon the House lila' Lrtic i l'a in many cases operate injuriously. so long, but he would now conclude by propose-1g that the l'lti e , l ' i l lt th e I , AN CELLOR made a reference to the Act. 3 and sentence should be twelve months' imprisonment instead of so to sSre ai ,, s si in respect to this point, the applieatien of transportation. Its i li sp o l i g° t understand from the low tone in which his Earl WICKLOW said he conceived that there was no class Sti es e Earl of e ' n , of the community irt Ireland who would more rejoice at the nl ie — Woul d 0 " ICKLOW remarked, that as the Lord Chief passino, of this clause than the peasantry of Ireland, the very lett i l l ietis e 4 0 t• be present till next week, and as the feeling Mass for whom . the Noble Earl tool made s i pathetic a speech. to e the pseared to be against the adoption of his amend- Be (Lord W icklow) admitted this clause was a severe one ; c'esS R i q.,ht it would not be fair to wait for him but, though similar acts had been enforced kefore, he never is 4 t lino, U G HA M. said his Noble and Learnell Friend heard of a case of such hardship and tyranny as the Noble Earl' 11 . 1 111- 41 e lit7t l _ 4t o e sfor . three magistrates being, required to depose had been so . i:atheticelly describing. In answer to the Noble 1 4 t h e va w as, .7_ of for district before it was declared. All that he Earl's pathetic spec - cu, he (Lord IVicklow) begged to refer the S e Pre eee ' u nse better foundatien for proceedings than these House to the speech of a great statesman, Lord Grey, who V i'd c"t Bill 4 lldh e CITTF, • • in I S:l3 introduced a shmlar measure, the severity of which he Th e — be n i — N HAM was of opinion that the matter lamentest, but he said that its very severity was its best b e cla use left in the hands of the Lord Lieutenant. security. This present Bill made a misitemeanour a transport cites;l Was agreed to, as were also clauses 3,4, and 5. able offence, and the Bill of Lent Grey contained a clause pre kl4 '4l C L A 6 being read, cisely similar. Watt ° ACO,Sif L e seit 51i leed th Y observed, that the Noble Lord who The Lord CHANCELLOR. and Lord CAMPBELL said that Zh' bee Y 14 Retai l e measure had complained of ties very gr e at Lord Grey's Bill tsint mined no such clause. . 0 _ 4 t0 ,..._. g witnesses to come forward when any crime Earl WIC - s LOW continued to say that he considered this 1 o e lnle r''"led• There w as ti , t d ou bt t h a t in d ov id oo l s Bill would be useiess without this clause, and therefore he kik l ' l tes , ° "card to •. . 1.. - gi%c t rir evid nee ware , •xposed woulti oppose the amendment. icee eeierey great denger. It was not, however, so Lord CA,sII ) I3ELL said that the Bill of 1833 made beingp fo rwe n , a f personal harm that prevented witnesses timiiiation of witnesses a transportable offence ; but the plitt 4 4or u b c .w : it was the fear of having attached to them out at night seas made simply a misdemeanour, without de :,_thi_ np. te et ,ocorisidered . a, informers. It was a ver y dig titling any puoishment beyond tine and imprisonment. The '' t o ld, ' H u e glut' evidence in Ireland from what it was in Noble Lord then rend the clauses he alluded to, the words of Ni7, t t th a j__ we,. d earriestly propose to her Majesty's Go. which bore out. his staterneets. He than continued to say that ki ed lel „ i , i t 'e ur s . should be woe,' to the local magistrates in the present BSI no etioincion whatever was made between wit tiesses. J o e d w e ere „ enpefe r o r t s pst sons to come forward whom they he- the t &noes, and therefore he shsuid say that so far this Bill I'll:441e'l AfolriPthrie ha-1 been most unhappily framed. The, &rotes of intimidsting NI 44e of, A . imeulty Edl...els as of oration that the law had already o jet man or a witness, or thing out armed were transportable whien the Noble. Lord had co r n. offenttes ; but no distinction was made between those offences. S. sett be detained witness might b 41 . e .._ s . ze in custoe; .tso e .._ size s. He was also liabl e -t- ' ornent if he nen , a ,necte u to appe ar n c n otst o pelled to corn, forward. and that of simpt! being nut at n'ght, perhaps upon his lawful tt, tit th e trial should c , me on business. Si that a man heal.; out at t 4 t, ularmcd, or punished with fine c ad !sanded, butt " 'seder suspicious . tances. as the Bill had ' hl that 11 . a the law could do had fur the case f'll t ta d when called on. I-1,, in was to be tratisporten tor fitt e e ic o u y m e s ars. The Noble Lord kitteti. e go stand wor:ds from Lord WICKLO V alreNadv been done to then read a upri..ei e a se, upo , %yawl' a form o ion te men ; a. been framed, and contended that a document so loosely worsed 1. 0 1 , 4_ anel part of the Bill. ' the clause was sitoulsl nut be p, rrnitted to ,. e r n s s l t i . me A ut rn h a , n r might b c, e .h o i u ch t upon ttl au 'e 1 bean, upon a " lawful eiccoeion'', but )et it might he Ne pry, ensued e read, a ton, co nversation, inau,iilde in not 11 4 I , 4 ti, Lo ed between Lord Cotte r e satn, the'Lere, c.„,.. f mod difft , •olt to vrr,c, ,. . that it was mils-a - eh oi l s '! the Lo rd , CdmPbtll, after which ti le c i ause was m ade Ile (the Noble Lord) d.(l nor believe that the present inea- , ure V la 8 : "1. was the proper sus,- for the malady that prevailed in IrelalA ; it, v , tth r a .' neat proposed when tor tit, y reoulti not mske the low mere respected by nicking it k iki th. t e 4ti gl o ' , W . Lsels',TME:A r d eensidered Urn the remu noire cruel and unju•ti lie nisier! that, on consider - viols, f it t o ' arao unt r ad wpo night bs injured :lams ,1 nit he ptht they would coin •to the voovicti .n that their object would he 0 1 .4 4 1 ) "d that been le vie,l on the county which was Ii- better attained by rowed - tog to the amendment of tie Noble ,t h 4.. H e ho _ e , s. (d iiot be pat i out of toe comisoli- Earl. Agtariati outrages were condemned by every man in tZ r dTi t. o 4 , 4foreilitu the clause would be tittered to the effect the country, anti by tin min more strongly than Mr. O'Connell, , N T , wai made par of the Bill. who had ever s t his foe:, a e ainss such.--( Hear, hear. ) And 114 11; 4 'a ra;P A GLE objseteo antoret he: to any such alter- he should then say it the Bill passed in its present form it kl o loP oso e s e t file conso;idared 'fend was contributed to would have the effect of aggravating, rather than correcting, ti s lar eei : by Ireiand as he England. the roots cotriplairteit of.—( Hear, hear.) 1 / 2t tipt 4ath, e el WES IAIEA:TIi withdrew his amendment, Lend 013.0 LH Ali said he had attended to the arguments of l i tiitit t h n e nt ywha,sliordereu to stand part of the Bill. . Noble Lords on both side-, and he should confess that, in his 0 4 ,, 3t v. . eved that it would be in other fair, proper, opinion, the subject had been approached with an absence t ee _ L aeir e ile landlords of Ireland should be exonerated from of all party ieeliSig.—(Loud cites of " Hear, hear. ') e4"," e gbt s a e at e of the ex eases incurred in prosecutions. But after having given the fullest consideration which I„7tl l ,9‘ll(l 4e u r t hat the present oreadful want of the Irish he could to the arguments, be was forced to admit that he was 'er 4 .1ut 0 ' er have existed if the landlords of Ireland had entirely in favour . of the Bill without the amendment. In his tk e t tleet i' e t? the people under them. He should alto- opinion some of his Noble Friends had been led away by their t i le i s. srl o f t 'euses 13 and 14. feelings on the occasion, and had not sufficiently attended to Clfirl it i t e ","'D EN, with same wermth, said that if the what the stature of the power intended to be bestowed on the 40t1 1 t ted a. ll ued to state that the evils with which Ireland Government really was. His Noble . Friend who had moved ohtlitokietense from the neglect of the landlords, or from the amendment, all along affirmed that the very vernal offence Itti t ' a /I 9 as ) d i 4 e t ' their part, he (Lord Rohm) should feel it of beieg out an hour after sunset was a misdemeanour, Stft . e n es,e rect a contradiction as was consistent with the and punishable by transportation. But it was not for so s e , °tott of p!) to deny the veracity of any such assertion. venial an offence that he was liable to transporta ‘kltn. A ll ,t:kIINHASI would also deny the Noble Earl's tion, but for an offence which he (Lord Brougham) h em that he harm he wished the Noble Earl for the re- considered by i l i, means venial—being out under sus )ekitl %% c at r a„ep ai : t relght be an Irish landlord, and be obliged to pieus circumstances, aod not on lawful, arid then - VtattEy." l ol task of residing on hee estate, foe ot, unlawful. occasions—the `tow having declared that public ti t iti s m e g t sts eet e t lPlained, that possibly he had spoken with wicurity riquirtel that he should not be out on such unlawful % t bi tti la i 3' th e great change had token place in the. tic anions. —(Hear, hear.) N o w the r e h a d b een a di s ti nc ti on :11 the and of their tenants. Time present evils sought to be drawn between what was a moral and ,V et' .tae p a " s l,snas afflicted were perhaps mainly attri- what was a legal offence. Now, he ( Lord Brougham) ‘ l 'it i ef ee iri t thews history of that country. The state of things could not at all conceive the difference, as a well irre?!er i ee t ,e was the direct consequence of the dereliction disposed subject should ever consider that whet was opposed to 1 „ I nlords in their duties to the people. —(Cries of law was opposed to right, and, consequently, to morality. l, t,' tt v , 1:11,i ~ 1, 4 at t a t „as an historical fact, with which [that nly Again, a man was not to be transported for fifteen years for so IN 11 5 0- e world, was acquainted. anti all the venial an effence as Noble Lords imagined; for the Court was V e iN tiol :p ee l' P ° 'ite might say or do would not make the fact armsd with a power to examine whether he was out on lawful I te se : l of we business or under suspicious circumstances,—( Hear, hear.) l lo tel ° flr e i W ICKLOW was of opinion that the present What better security, he wished to ask, could there be, than I/411 ; 11 'k- kr lead was owing to the gross mismanagement that the Judge before whom the man would be tried would go Nntl, Y. If 1014 l , we e admitted that a great change had taken into the particulars of the case, and direct the jury as to the 11 1 aiSoPesti h ail 1 Protest against the historical facts which nature of the offence ? And then, even though he should be niettteei, employed. found guilty of tieing out under suspicious circumstances, the lV a t I t ' th, ;,°_ LAN SDOWNE was opposed to the intro- same judge would mete out such punishment as, under all the keln ot tio ee ' t dtt . ses to which his Noble Friend had objected. circumstances of the case as proved before him, should appear I li t ift s ,lee tieh e , c that these murders were committed by to him to he just. —( Hear, hear.) If the man hap bitZtee'mstlaßeee"rna feeling d country, and were concealed, penes! to be out under circumstances of a very s prevailing mischievous ta,eef tinieaturnee—ighabloweadi,soedtakemrg locality account the n se c retro through con--er)'' and partly he of was os afraidai — and that Nthl..ANrd hear. ) he was proved to be a man of good character, would not that t l absTid th 41t TY observed that the Noble Marquis had t go into the jury.box in his favour ?—(Hear, hear.) And was kNo tt i l ii tt oei rd e source of these lawless assassinations, and i t not certai n , that the sentence of the Court would be perhaps zl, l ,041 d ItY to avaSl th ems elves of the notehtoery whieh a day, or two day s imprisonment, or perk cps a fine of fire 5111 i 1 101; 4 th e ;"°rd them to relieve the pour people from the linos ?—( Hear, hear.) It had been asked, is why were not the titw e e t l e e - , class of vaelants. lie would wish the Noble suspicious eiteurnstaneeslefitieti?"—(t• Hear, hear," from Earl v eh etn e t "e oftener - sent st the inr tory then ooino on Grey. ) Now his answer to that was because it would be im sSnNleheee'44 1; 4 II ; Tri.h l) e lo - raw " , .as he l anticipat ' ed nuch possible to define them : fir instance. one man being seen with Not °lt o t e e e ueeted from " his knots ledge of Irish affairs. l a bludgeon, night be no great crime, but when 59 or 60 men it p ipi gh ih m z i ,,,, - ',lrurnen tal in putting the Noble Earl's name armed with bludgeons were seen together, wculd not such be lo.(0S11 - "tee, but as yet they hart gamed but little an aggravation of circumstances?—( Hear, hear.) In reference N R y geo ce . to the mixing up of agrerian outrage with landlord tyranny, he il , hi ll Z Jo e i ' r a , i r that he told the Noble Lord distinctly that (Lerd Brougham) should say they were questions that , ehould . h - t ‘l e lt see l lato, 1 :- power to attend, and yet, in spite of that no t b e mix e d togethe a for every such coosiclera . den . wtaken e weakened rl .4 . 4 s ,.P . ersevered in i •lacing his n ame upon the the efficacy of the measure for the suppression of crime. toL.t , ` l 4 kts _ti iin u ee au t attended the first few days, as i t was in the people be ever so misgoverned, that gave thernno right . go ntoitstand. v oat time it was utterly impossible that out on snobs and make life insecure and property valueless in that 14 4 1 %T v isa liOn of ill-fated and unhappy part of the empire.—( Hear, hea ) y i s , 4, 4 . 1 :t - . clause IS was then r stponed. When the time came tor cowidering the grievances under which ILO 44. I. it his duty to move an am , ndmacit nk the agricultural population laboured,. he would be as d rea. , , ty as i V l ttiZt e haty eeis ietiose ma-Ac it an offence, transportable any Noble Lord to enter into the question, but he felt disinclined it Ots. ;tite r ' for a person to be out of h is boils, to mix the goes.ions at present—( Hear, Lear)—and he there k t NI I - . ti ~i a, suns e t. N ow t h e y mast reeolte e t fire felt it hi; key to support the measure, in doing which he 10 ," WI It o • tri g podee offence, and by no means involving could not avoid saving that he was giving his support to a alo It te i lsh ro ) , t neral printople ; he, therefore, would move meantre infinite y less stringeot than the one which his (Lord r t 'Sa e l;trii e ase d ( ''',l , Should be lito.ted to imprisoomint for one Brougham) haa the honeur to present to their Lordships for itt:,:::, ,er ed, '': bun that the power which oas proposed accey.!ance. It was true, the, e was this severity in the present 'lts t "av e s e li nd not now fur the first time, upon the measure that did not. exist in his nil!, namely, the makieg misa 4 1 to o . " l 4l ent of It elaad, was one which should not demeanour a traps-portable offence ; yet lie could not help say. \S et h. % i e n 0 ,,e ° ,,1 ureter the insist extraordiriaty eircurns in g , that in bis opitth,n ; the cm:ow-martial clauses in his Bill . t. 1 4 ,te tt e e 's be told tOat the eve for wh,ch such a w e re de e pet•l the most important clauses in the measure, and I NO, I s i t e i slid ' was one which called. for , so severe a pun- tulle jos , itied his anticipation, as not a single man was tried s apt pd ° Ol ., however, consider that the etreern kik4 under them, so great was toe terror which they inspired,— IsSfg, - I C the Personal liberties any such case . as that. He was of (Hear, hear ) iikitd di, „ I L . ) ?n . a, liberties of the tillilJants of a pro- Ihe Marquis of CLANRICARDE cons dered that if the l t tt i ;b l a ee stay seii °, l n not . be so . iettered as tat . they. five woule amenoment ',reposed by the Noble Earl (Earl Grey) \ )4,..tf IDr their c .bins from about four es in were carried, that the . Government would be armed with no :),4 2. .4- , ember day till half past teeet the follow-. more than the ordinar t power. As to teaching people to t .o th lole that they would not s et th e ir toot out of respect. the law, such could not be done by letting them see, ,iti l it tli t ah.leeti,, Cott ages during a period of sixteen hours year after year, that by a combined effort they could defeat it, a t. the titeeSg. t hemselves to these severe penalties. A arid overreach the constituted authorities.--(Hear, hear.) kltti ° 4lii "4 e l f s e l t ISis friend —m my not gO to his work, withOtl , They ‘A•gui•il on this matter as if the law were to he universal) , SslS ' bf e t a t i d t e ue inse arrested bra volicernati and afterwards applied all over Ireland, but their Lordships should recobeet ‘tCttl 't ,e o fr r e ruve (what no man (mu l t i 'p rove ) that his hat. its tipeto: ion was limited to the disturbed dioriets, end no kk i s e to hettias free from criminality. It was said by the honest men, he would toolertake to say, would in such a dis k 4, to rtititsin, 7, clause was necessary, and . that it . only trict be found out of his house after sunset.. The . really goad iett ee p he etnini e n° were found under suspicious circuns- effect of the measure would be, that while it inspired honest '''re tt "ti t etrati ",t, however, coesent that it should ever men vvith confidence in the power of the Government, it at k e., 14 trttoe; t t 1; 3 :2 4 any of those disturbed districts, and no the same tine struck terror into the hearts of the evil-disposed V'et i 1 1% t: t bsio n. w nd s, heard could induce him to come to a by the severity of its clauses. If the amendments of the Noble iliac, f Pass 01 's as it to he supposed that their Lord- Earl were, however, acceded to, the Bill would be so weak i, An t th e Nstne w Of such unexampl e d s ev e rity, because erred in its operation that it would be cornoaratively useless. ‘ ',Ss'llelj too, - tedium Perhaps, of the enacoment, should wish The very papers read by the Noble Lord who hail introduced et s :lis et 0 c`g.e by o af a sixteen hours' continem• nt in his the measure were a satire upon the imbicilits of the Execuive tl/4NY eV t: 415 1 t o sa e l s2 te ln g out to breathe the fresh air, that, C over e nn ao, ;Intl f o rmed the very best indictment, that could 14th"eki:Peo tt i " lin he should subject hitusell to be be drawn up agamst them. 1f sorivernment tied Img ere that k. it . i tiet llie a t o evsettlement for fifteen years. It was so time assumed a 1 teller tore, it they Lad brought. tar, power of Chi , h - etedtuttie b eer y principle ot natural justice, hat, the executive to beer toion the itsturbtql portions of Ireland, i i,gly' SO s oi i n it h 'ore their Lordships' House wish that the evils they were then cortsid ring o toll have hail no exist kie:l'lle.la oiOt t, e ' for one, would say, " Net conten t " once . He should oppose the amendments of the Noble Earl. ti:im, Reekoise and old that it did not apply to peaceable Lord COTTENHA II said that time Noble Earl, by his s te ll st e 'eolo t ei ftnio d : o in .l s . u, burdinate persons, aed that those amendments, did . not wish to rescind the clause to which the ins Ol d thie e .eor ne _ inat was called " fuspicious circurn- amendments applied; all he wanted was to , . limit In some . degree k kt h pa 4 Fact o eit under its iofluence. What, he vvoulti the punishment of offences. The first °inert of society was of rtlphte clipl r ° Rin s e ,eurnstan ee . o li e ,j,1,,f t o know how course to secure life and property, and the only question was, N i,"411y ' oetw een . .'t I-: , 1 44 f ii 54:.13,0.. I situ! , ! Llo men %SIM , were mut. out, tdereio-e, oco . v toey were . best toWhen this Coercion t. L i!ed," e.. tots roet , e o seasion, and ateetner who was 111.- Bill was first introduced it was proposed . to make it a perma 10,Nonthst "; R o l e 'ves? He would take two iestances. nent law for Ireland, but it was now considered only as an ex hiQe e, 9 e o art os i, e _g oht for the purpose of visitiog hit traordinary exsedient to remedy an extraordinary state of N 4 r ty 11 ; 41 1 , 1, 1 ,1, th Zr r goi ng to join a party of Whitehoys, timings. With regard to the particular clause in question, al- Vl Noti t e l n imo'eould e b e tett by a policeman, ohm. differ- though he would not deny foram oment that this was a res s t ital_so he _ es , s e o ayo,„ ~ at tound in the external circumstaitces tion on the liberty of the subject, still if . the peace of Ire -4,..111,4e40, 4 . _ d t eljn . , one man was itsfinensed by ins- land required it, the Government were right to persevere. s; t is i t tee t e , vit st o the tehe other was innocent ? No men This was a measure of precaution, adopted for the purpose of Is t Jtop s re s ;' Rho any re „V . Vin. an heart, and therefore it would preventing sffences. It appealed to him, however, that the t< t b , 4 ei„ .uti as t j e C e r n ot to er j w us h tice, to ray uri T tle h r e such punishment, as provided by the original )Noble was t e m e m rd ercifully i meete r e t . h a e n e d x i , th e n a that i t e n s e e fa theme n e d a r s n e e . n t f Theythe eel i L ' laemeti,seZtot:tvereapunishment.andcouldremember tee had heard it stated that there were gradation; in crime, and that while one man q 1514 t ll r e utild eeio w .as a mode of detecting a man— might be out of his house after sunset for the worst of pural 'a y proposed him. If that was really the poses, another man might be also out for purposes comparatively to got it was a most dangerous innocent. Tho introduction of the words " under suspicious I circumstances," into the clause, was a great improvement. The Nobles Lord who had last spoken, had referred to the terror which would be induced by this measure, and adduced it as an argument for giving extended powers to the executive Govern ment. But the sense argument would apply in every case where Government demanded extraesrdinary powers. He did not feel dispi:sed to dispute the propriety of arming th 3 Go vernment with these extended powers, but he yet felt that the amendments pi oposed by the Noble Earl were improvements upon the original measure, and he should therefore support their adlitiori. Lord MONTEAGLE said that if this were a question of law, he should consider it presumptuous indeed in him to rise alter the Noble Lord who had last spoken. But although he disc mined i lea of vying with his Noble Friend in legal knowledge, he thought that as regarded a knowledge of Ireland he was biter infermed than the Noble Lord who Lad sup ported, or the Noble Earl who had moved the amendments. Tnere could be no more painful position than for a person con nected, as he him , elf was, with Inland, to rise for the purpose of advocating the enforcement of strong penal measures, and nothing but the s'rongest sense of duty could have induced him to come so prominently forward. If he were mistaken in sup porting coercive measures, he had soiac sa'isfaction in looking to the past history of Ireland, for he found that, if err he did, he erred ii good company ; he erred in the society of the best aud wisest that country had ever produced—men who were warmly aqached to popular institutions, and strenuous in de fence of civii liberty. He could not look to that question as if it were brought before the House for the fi. st time. lie found Lord Plunkett advocating such a measure bath in and out of office. .!_sir oi:n Newport took the same course ; but the greatest. name of all remained t.) be mentioned. In respect of this very measure, Henry Grattan, when at the height of his popultrit:„ and at the hazard of his life, came forward to support it. He, the creator of Irish independence, the friend and leader of the Irish people, in a British House of Parliament did nut he: itate to ?.!ive his aid to the passing of a coercive rrif asure. That measure, too, was infinitely str.nger than the present one. Every day added a new crime to the dark catalogue which disc 44r zees" the country. He would call their Lordships' attention to the fact, that the concealment of crime in Ireland did not arise from any desire to oppose the law— it arose from intimida tion. If c.ey retested to the testimony of .John Davi s , they would find that thole were no poople more imbued with the love of jtritice than the Irish. The r,cl - 1 bad couch greater protection afforded to than the pour, wild it was for the • i.nriy-e of aflarding them the sau , iy to which they were entitled that he rose to defend that Bill. No person contested TIC pri ,•, of t`re measure ; his Nohle Friend had admiited it, and the only que.ition was as to the duration of the punishment. and he would meet all the arguments which had been urged against the Bill by this assertion, of which no one could deny the complete justness, namely, that they were bound to adopt such a modicum of justice as would render the measure effec tive. lie could show that the sentence of imprisonment for three years would be more cruel than transportation, and that transportation would be more effective for carrying out the objects of the Bill. Yet there was another fact which he would impress upon their Lordships, that this was by far the mildest and most uneonstitutional measure that ever was proposed for the adoption of Parliament. Mr. Grattan's Bill committed the trial to the bench of magistrates, and that without the benefit of a jury. By the present Bill the case would be submitted to a judge of the land, a tribunal which it must be admitted was tar more constitutional than the bench of magistrates, ic;ftined as they mi.tht be by the transactions oc curring around. But the result of the punishment by imprison ment would be this, the criminal would return from the gaol an adept in every kind of lawless violenee, particularly if he were dispost•ei to any of those offences before his punishment. lie could never give a vote on any subjecl more painful to his feelings than on the present occasion, as hewas unwilling to be considered the supporter of a measure, which would tend to the restriction of the liberties of his country ; but having a strong conviction on his mind, that by limiting the perild of punish ment they would deprive the measure of its efficacy, he did not consider that it would be just or manly to give a silent vote. Lord LONGDALE observed that there was no question made as to the principle of the Bill, nor was there any inten tion to offer it any obstruction, but the offence which it created was cne of degree, and admitting of every variety of mitiga tion. The question, therefore appeared to him to be whethOr they should have the same punishment for each degree, or whether the punishment was to be limited by the description of the offence ? new he did think the latter was the most rea sonable point to view the question. Earl GREY said that as one year had been considered to be too short a period by his Noble Friend, he was quite willing to alter it to two. The LORD CHANCELLOR raid that as it did not seem to be generally understood, he would take that opportunity of stating That it was the intention of the Government to limit the period of transportation from fifteen to seven years. Marquis of LANSDOWNE would have no objection to voting for the Bill, provided it were limited. He would ask to wtiat length of time it was proposed to extend the Bill? The Earl of Si'. GERMANS replied that, as the clause then stood, it was for a period of fire years, but he was quite willing that it should be further limited to three. Lord STOUR CON hoped that the Government would per severe in the limitation of the Act to five years. The Margot:, of LA SSD° WN E iniimated that, at a fu ture time, he would take ihe sense of the House on the pro priety of hunting it to three year:. Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared- Content . 7 Not content Adajorny .igainst the amendment Clauses 24, 25, 26, and 27 were then agreed to. On the last clause being proposed, limiting the duration of dietili!ti five years, The Mar(pis ~f CLANRICARDE thought even three years too long. It was the most uticonAAutional Bill that could be enacted, and it should terminate, at the utmost, on the Ist October, 1,-149. The Eari of WICK LOW thought five years short enough. The n...cessity for its existence would be as strong at the et piration oft hree yea•s as at present. The Margins of LANSDOWNE said, that. if it was pro posed to continue it longer than the time mentioned by his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Clanriearde), he would take the sens, of the Huse upon it. Lord CLARE thought it wholly unimportant whether it con tinued three years or live years. the Eari of ST. GE dAI A thoug'tt that it was of so much importance that thtor Lordships should be unanimous, or as nearly so as possib►e, that rather than run the risk of a second division on the point he would have no objection that the lesser period of three years should be substituted for that of five. It was then agreed, after some conversation, that the Bill should bs limited in operation to three years. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF C0 ,1 1.110..15, March 6. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes before Four o'clock. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were severally read a second time and ordered to be committed, viz.:— Airdrie and Bathgate Junction Railway. Rye and D&'rwent Drainage. Heywood Waterworks. Leicester and Tainworth Junction Railway. Ei•field Chase Roa,l. Wakufiri.J, P.iitefract, and Goole Railway, and Port, &c. of Goole. Welsh Charity School Incorporation. Creat Grimsby Gas Stafford New Gas Rugby Leamington, and Warwick Railway South:Eastern Railway, No. 7 (Ashford Stations Enlargement) Monmouth and Hereford Railway London and Brighton and London and Croydon Railways Conz,olidation Monk!and and Kirkintilloch Railway London and Oxford Railway Eastern Counties Railway (Epping Extension) Mr. NEWDEGATE moved the first reading of the Man chester Direct Railway Bill, which was ordered to be read a second time. Mr. KEMBLE moved that the order for the second read ing of the Mitcham and South-Western Railway Bill, on Monday, March 2, be made an order of the day for Monday, March 9, and that the Bill may be read a second time accord ingly on that day.—Molien agiced to. Mr. WILSON PATTEN moved that the Scottish Grand Junctio'i t-?ailway Bill, now placed in Group . No. 5, be re• ferred to the Chairman of Ways and Means, and the Members ordered to prepare and bring in the Bill; The motion was agreed to. Mr. GREENE also morel that the second readings of the folloNing Bills, notice for which has been g i ven i n t h e P r i vate Biil-offi're for Friday the 6th of March, be made orders of the day far Mon-ay next, the 9:h of March. Chichester, Ports mouth, and Fareham Railway Bill ; London and Birmingham RaAway aid Birmingham Canal Arrangements Bill ; Eastern Union Railway ( Ardteigh to Colchester) Bill. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BUSFEILD presented petitions from places in York• shire, signed by upwards of 9,000 individuals, against the en rolment of the militia. A petition was presented from the Poor-law guardians cf the parish 01 Caisley, remonstrating against the interference of the Poor-law Commissioners in their parish. Colonel 'F. WOOD presented a petition, very numerously signed by the inhabitants of Chelsea, expressing their satisfac tion at the proposed measure of the t , nvernment, and at the same time stating their belief that the measure would be materially improved if it included the total and immediate re peal at the corn-laws. Mr. WARD presented a petition, signed by the Lord Mayor and council of the city of York, and also by 15,000 of the principal inhabitants, rgasnst the enrolment of the mili.ia. Mr. T. DttNC;O.IIBE presented several petit►ons Against the enrolment of the nalitia._ . . Tmr. r.S 1:(ou it I brought up the report of the Standing Orders' Cunirnit ee. 111 r. BRIGHT presented several petitions from the county of Somerset praying for an immediate repeal of the corn•laws. Mr. HUDSON presented a petition from some place, the name of which did not reach us, in favour of protection. Mr. YOUNG moved that the Speaker do make out his warrant for the election of a burgess to serve in the present Parilament in the room of the Honourable Thomas Carnegie, who had accepted *he office o: one of the Lords of the Treasury. THE SU24, LONDON, SATURDAY MaRNING, MARCH 7, 1846. upon by the Government, and if not by them at least by some Select Committee to be appointed by the House. He there fore wished to ask the Government whether they intended taking any step in the matter? Sir GEORGE CLERK said that the question of the amal gamation of existing railroads had been fully considered by the Railway Department of the Board of Trade last year ; and one of the reports which they presented to the House was devoted exclusively to thee subject. In that report they laid down general rules under which such amalgamation should be pertnieed. In every instance the amalgamation of existing railroads was permitted, because where the railways proposed to be amalgamated lay in the same direct line, the public would be advantaged by the traffic being carried throughout the whole length of those lines under the same manage ment. But, on the other hand, it would be depriving the public of the benefit of competition, if railroads that ran parallel to each other were permitted.—(Hear , hear. ) He did not know whether, as a general principle, amalgamation sheuld be permitted or not ; bat he was of opinion that it would be extremely ineonver ient that where amalgamations were propoied to take place, that they should be referred to the same Committee as those which sat on separate Bills. In ge neral, those amalgamation Bills were not opposed ; they came before the Committee as unopeosed Biils, and the attention of the Committee was given to Bills that were opposed. He thought in consequence that all those Bills should be rererrod to the same Committee, who should take care that no amalgamation took place which would not be for the benefit of the public. Sir G. GREY wished to know whether the Government would propose, as the Committees were now about to sit on railway Bills, any suggestions for their guidance (as we un derstood) respecting the broad and narrow gauge? Sir GEORGE CLERK said that he had half an hour ago seen the parallel evidence, and that he hoped in a week or fortnight to lay it before the House. After a few words from Mr. BARING and Sir GEORGE CLERK, which we could not catch, Mr. F. MAULE said thet many of the Bills would not at tract the attention of the Committee at all with respect to amalgamation. PENSIONS FOR G:rVERNNIENT SERVICE IN Sir V. BLAKE begged to put a question to the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, the purport of which it was understood was to inquire whether the atinitry were at all likely to bring in a Bill for providing pensions for those individuals elm lost their empleyini nt after long service. If lint, lie should himself bring in a Bill for giving a pension of 75/. a year to all those who have filled prin.. cipal situations after twenty years' duty. Sir ROBERT PEEL was really not aware the Hon. Baronet was going to ask such a question. He had not given any notice—at least it did tot wand for to-day—(Cries of " No, no")—or he would have taken care to have provided himself wieh the information on the subject. The Hon. Baronet was quite competent to bring in a Bill if he thought proper, or if he chose to put a notice on the paper, he would be prepared to give a reply on a future day. SCOTCH TURNPIKE ROADS. Sir JAMES GRAHAM moved the second reading of the Turnpike Roads (Scotland) Bill, in order to have it postponed for ten days, in consequence of the absence of the Lord Ad vocate. FAMINE. IN IRELAND. Mr. O'CONNELL rose to call the atterr ion of the House to a letter which he had received from a Catholie clergyman, de tailing the misery which existed in his parish. 'the reverend gentleman detailed that in his whole district there were 1,222 comvrising 7,332 individuals ; of these, 72 fa milies had six months' provisions, 16 had four, 184 had three, 48 had two-and-a-half, 218 had two, 87 h a d six, 200 had four, 23 had three, 57 had ten, 32 had one, and 3C9 were without any provision at all. He was sorry the Hon. Member for Queen's County (Sir J. C. Coote), than whom a better landlord did not exist, was absent, because he •.rould be able to corrobate intelligence which he (Mr. O'Connell) had received from that part of Ireland, that half of the potatoe crop of his tenants had been utterly de stroyed, and that they were compelled to subsist as they best could, on the indifferent portion left, and on the charity of their friends and neighbours. PROTECTION TO LIFE AND PROPERTY IN same, in consequence of the averages preventing the purchase of corn at a reduced price ; but after that, when the harveit at home was made available, the averages fell, and foreign corn came in when it was not required. He would be glad to meet any Hon. Gentleman who was ready to defend the corn-laws, and he would undertake to prove that every one of them, ac cording to the confessions of their supporters themselves, had been failures. He should vote for no amendment against the proposition of the measure of her Majesty's Government— ( Ironical cheering )—because he was anxious that the measure should pats the Houses of Parliament. He was quite sore that a fixed duty would do more harm than good, and he voted for this measure because he thought the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government best knew what was likely to pass. He thought the other branch of the Legislature ought to have a fair field upon which to do some good. Do not let the House of Commons take all the credit. What he would advise the House of Lords to do would be, to amend the. Bid by proposing total repeel.—(Cheers.) He was satisfied that if they adopted that course they would consult their own inte rest, and the country would then say, thank God, we have a House of Lords. He, therefore, sincerely hoped that the House of Lords would adopt that measure. Mr. S. O'BRIEN said, his Gallant Friend had commenced by deploring the delay which had taken place in passing this measure ; and yet, in the course of his speech, lie threw out a challenge to discuss, during the progress of this measure, all the corn-laWs which had been passed since the year 1815. Now, there was as great a discrepancy in that as in the two statements the lion. Gentleman had made respecting the price. In the first place, he stated that this measure would raise the price 3s. or 45., and in the latter part of his speech he said it would make no difference at all. The Right lion. Gentleman at the head of the Government had stated that the price would be raised Is. or 25., but the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had improved upon that. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to the law of settlement, hut that could have no reference to the famine in Letand. If the present measure raised the price of corn, it was obvious that, as far as Ireland was coecerned, it would he better to delay the passing of the measure, for that wculd be beneficial to the poor. Granting all these provisions were correct, and that the great change that the Right Hon. Baronet had thought it his duty to show was not to be looked upon merely as a change on the importation duty on flour, but rather as a great change in the commercial policy of the country ; it seems that there was this great diversity of opinion both in this House and out of doors; it seems still further that there was this evident deter mination to continue this discussion through all the different stages of Parliamentary usage ; seeing, also, that it was as serted that the uncertainty occasioned by what may arise in thin House, or elsewhere, he did think that the R ght Hon. Baronet could not do less than grant the means of indulgence to the Hon. and Gallant supporter behind him, and to allow the discussion on the law of settlement to precede the debate on the alteration of the corn-laws. Now he thought he was bound to remind the House that, seeing they were in a great minority, and that it was impossible to prevent them from protracting this debate to almost an interminable length, and occupying the time of that branch of the Le g islature by a a cold discussion, he th oug ht h e was entitled to show the House and the country that he and his Noble Friends near were free from any blame on that point. They might have clogged the notice-book with intimations of motions, which would have had that effect, but they had not taken that course. When the other night the Right Hon. Baronet had expressed a wish that the debate should proceed, the Hon. Member for Athlone ( Mr. Collett) had refused to accede, and referred to several Members. Mr. COLLE VT said his reference was made to the Peers. Mr. S. O'BRIEN—Yes, but he did not blame the Hon. Member, for he had not made his reference discourteously, but he Lad raised a discussion which he had even a right to do; the same circumstance had occurred with respect to the Hon. Member for Liskeard (Mr. Buller.) When the Honourable Baronet had moved for going into Committee, that Hon. Mem ber had moved an amendment which also brought on a dis cussion. He did not blame those Honourable Members,i but he wished to show that he and his friends were free from all blame on this point. The only Member of those with whom he acted who had put a notice on the book, was the Hon. Member for Warwickshire, but it had immediately been set aside. He would repeat, he did not blame those Members, for he thought that in such an entire breaking up of a party as this question had proved, and in the important change which was likely to take place, that the measure which introduced it ought to be closely and doggedly discussed, and that it ought to have the most mature deliberation in all parts of the House; ' but he must at the same time remind the House that, however severe might be the famine suffered by the people, and how ever high the price of provisions, or however great the disease amongst the potatoes, that he and his friends near him were free from all culpability. They were not responsible for the non-opening of the ports, and the only reason he saw against such a measure was the fact that the Noble Lord had proposed it.—(Hear.) They were not responsible for the non-introduction of a temporary Bill for Ireland. They were not responsible for Parliament not havin g been summoned on the 22d o f January; and if the Hon . Baronet chose to i n t ro d uce measures of such vast importance, it was unfair to charge them with offering them a factious opposition, because they were anxious they should be fully discussed. Now he was determined, whenever that charge was repeated, to protract the discussion. He should not, however, interfere with the progress of the amendment. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but on our re turn to the gallery, we found that no division had taken place, and that Lord G. BENTINCK was in possession of the House. The lion. Gentleman stated that he considered that nothing could he more inconsistent than the speech of the Hon. and Gallant Member when compared with the course he pursued. On the division which took place on the motion of the Member for Wolverhampton ; and his Hon, and Gallant Friend (Colonel Wood.) who formerly supported the opinions entertained by the protectionist party, new turned his back upon them and sup ported the propositions of the Government, though he was elected to support the sentiments which he (bid George Bentoick) and those around him entertained. He was sur prised, entertaining the opinions which he did with respect to the poor-laws, that he did not advise the Government to; defer the further consideration of the measures which they had proposed until the treatment of the poor (who were being carted about from place to place, and who were sub jected to the greatest hardships) had been amended and re medial measures adopted. He (Lord G. Bentinck) had never refused his support to any measure which bad for its object the admission of foreign corn to feed the poor of this country, during years of scarcity and famine, and he bad also supported the sliding-scale introduced by the Right Hon. Baronet, be. cause he believed that the corn-laws of 1815 required modifi cation, and that a graduated scale should be adopted. But even under the law of 1815, the price of corn in England in 1816 was cheaper than on the Continent, as he found that whilst corn in England was at 112 s. a quarter, it had reached 116 s. at Vienna; and that in 1817 whilst it was 112 s. in Eng land it was at 1•275., at Vienna, 140 s. in France.—(Hear, hear.) He did not, however, as ish to say anything in favour of the law of 1815, but whilst he approved of the sliding-scale of 1842, which the Government seemed to think was a great failure, he could not forbear saying that the corn law of 1815 had prevented foreign corn from being introduced into this country at famine prices, and consequently from materially injuring the agricultural and commercial interests of the country. After a few words from Colonel WOOD and Lord Joins RUSSELL, (which were inaudible in the gallery,) 11r. COLLE l'T stated that he did not wish to embarrass the present question, or unnecessarily delay its progress, but he must say, in answer to the charge of the Hon. Member for Northampton (Mr. S. O'Brien), that any word he had said with reference to the four Noble Dukes in the other House he belived to be perfectly true, and would again repeat the charges if necessary. Sir JOHN 'f YRRELL was surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Brecon ( Colonel Wood) state that he would vote in favour of the Government measure. He (Sir J. Tyrrell) had always looked upon the Hon. and Gallant Member as the Nestor of protection. He was surprised at the general state of ignorance, with reference to the feelings and opinions of the constituency of the Hon. Member. He believed that there was a requisition in a considerable state of progress, by the members of the Gallant Colonel's constituency, who, knowing his great honour, and the great honour which had always distin guished his actions, had no doubt that he would meet the terms of that requisiti©n in a perfectly manly and honourable manner.—(Laughter.) The requisition was, he believed, signed by a considerable number of gentlemen, and those per sons to wham allusion had so ofen been made in the course of the late monster debate. He alluded to tenant-farmers, ' and he (Sir J. Tyrrell) was given to understand that in con ' sequence of the late mania for farming companies, this class had started " an Amelganaated Small Tenant-farmers' Asso ciation." What number of shares the Gallant Colonel thought it right to hold in that speculation he would not pretend to to say.—(Cheers and laughter.) While, however, he was on the subject of ignorance, he might be permitted to say that there was one measure which he would propose, and which, no doubt, would give satisfaction to the country—(Hear)— one which would not interrupt unnecessarily the progress of the business of the House. Hon. Members on his side of the House, who had accused the Government of treachery, in not taking the sense of the country upon the subject of their treachery, they woull be satisfied if the Members of the Go vernment would let them carry on unnecessary business of the country, namely railways ; and when they came back to their places, after having an opportunity afforded them of appealing to their constituents, they would be satisfied with them, and in the interim would carry on all the necessary business of the country, railways, for they are the only matters of any im portance to the country. The Hon. Baronet concluded by saying, that they ought to rally round and support the corn laws as much as they would the Crown. Lord 'A ORSL EY, although he agreed in full with the Eon. Gentleman's proposition, yet he did not see what he could gain by pressing it on for division.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. CU RT EIS wished to correct an observation made a few evenings since by the Hon. Member for Sunderland.—(Cries of " Order," and " Chair.") It had been stated in an agricul tural speech.—( Renewed cries of " Order.") Well, then, he would not refer to what had been said, but state plainly that he was prepared to show that the wages paid the agricultural labourers in Sussex were not Bs. per week, but 125., and in some instances 13s. per week.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Curteis) was a considerable farmer, and he could state that every man in his employment was paid at the rate of 12s. per week, He (Mr. Curties) was in favour of a 6s. or 4s. duty, or no corn• law at al ; and he thought the Hon. Gentleman would get credit for much more discretion by not pushing his propo sition to a division. The farmers complained that they had not been treated fairly by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government ; and many of them were ready to give up the corn-laws, provided the duty on hops and other imports were abolished, so that they could then do as they liked with their own.—( Hear, hear.) For himself, he could say that he was perfectly rea ly to give up the corn-laws, and that the agricultural portion of his constituents were ready to do the same. But he did think that whilst they were about to give cheap food to the people, they should accede to the wishes of the hop-growers, by repealing the malt-duty. He should con tinue to agitate upon that question until it was settled—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the qtiestion now before the House, he would express his belief that the attempt to impede the progress of Free-trade, was labour in vain, and he therefore hoped that the amendment would not. be persisted in —( Hear, hear.) But he would never resteatisfied until the duty ma malt was repealed hear, an d lauuhter)—and this brought him to the point of the hop-duties.—( Cries of 6 . Ohl oh !" and laughter.) lie begged to slate to the Right lion. Baronet, that he press up on the House that should feel it his duty to an amount, equal in propor:ion to half the excise duties, should be taken off the protective duties. The Right Hon. Baronet was going to take ss. of protection off, and half the excise duty would therefore be about 10s. He really thought that if the Right lion. Baronet would only con• sider this question, he would see that it was only fair towards the hop-growers, that an equal proportion should be taken off excise duties as was taken cff protection. And now that he was on his legs—( Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Divide ")—he would like to mention that, as a farmer, he believed that a very considerable change was craning over the hop-eroeiers of Sussex, whatever might be the fate of those in heat. His constituents had desired him to say that rather than have their present questionable protection they would be without any at al:.—( Hear, hear.) It was only fair therefore that the present duties on malt should be repealed by nay of compensation. In conclusion he entirely agreed with the Noble Lord ( Wore.- le y ) that this amendment should be withdrawn. Mr. HUDSON begged to state, in reply to what had fallen from the lion. Gentleman opposite, that he had never, either in that House or in any other place, made any state ments at all bearing upon the question of agricultural labourers' wages in Sussex. He had certainly, during the dis cussion on the corn-laws, spoken of the agricultural wages paid in Wiltshire, in reply to the statements of the Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War. flit he lied never made the moat distant refer nee to Sussex —( Hear.) lie was very much gratified indeed to hear from the lion. Gentleman opposite of the amount of wages paid to agricultural labourers in Sussex, and he had no doubt that the House would be equally gratified.--( Hear, hear.) Her Majesty's Illinisters must also feel pleasure vs hen they heard that lab curers were so liberally treated in the county alluded to.—( Hear, bear. ) Mr. CriRTEIS begged to apologise to the Hon. Member if he had misrepresented his statements.—( Hear, hear.) But he was quite sure —( L ou d cr i es o f " O r d er , or d er , an d divide, divide," in the midst of which the lion. Gentleman resumed his seat.) Lord DUNCAN having made a few observations, which did not reach us, Mr. W. 0. STANLEY then withdrew his amendment. Mr. M. MILNES then rose and said, that in bringing for ward his present motion he begged and implored the Right Hon. Baronet to take iota consideration the great importance of compromising the present question, and thereby bringing the agitation which was at present so much felt in the country to a happy termination. He had come to that consideration from no trifling time spent in examining the question. He would now shortly state the reasons why he brought forward the !notion, and he considered the present rate or scale which he proposed was far more effectual in arranging the question than the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet; and his (Mr. Alilnes') scale of duty was simple and extremely moderate, and ranged over a small amount of prices. In 1842 he thought it his duty to declare in that House that the scale of averages was complicated, and much too high, and nothing had occurred since to alter his opinion. No scale of protection, such as that the farmers had under the present law, was at all sufficient to enable them to compete with the foreigner. lie considered that the formidable combination of the Anti ' corn-law League would net be less zealous in prosecuting their designs. They could not obtain immediate peace by passing something; o h tr moewpepaotrsipstnegign,eat that sbcoi enmeasure,ismtueostfonfh theoaprp, psoleisi Right prospective tti t vt l eh i enikokgne legislation, ia:wtrniooo, Baronet to i et f th,hiadrtideserveen"iel upone it ha f ra o s r d. founded his measure, not upon a`pr ls. i e o rev i i i d p e , n m ce f ,:i is ot ex u p po e n rie ti n ie c o e ry of , but upon true in d uctive pr i ncip the last three years— what experience, however, could he have bad of the th ree y ears to come ? Suppose that in the' year 1849 corn should be th e same pr i ce as it was in 1835, does he think that, with corn in England at 375. a quarter, and abunda ante of corn ready to come in from foreign countries, any thing would be the consequence of the frightful panic to the tenant-farmers and producers of the country ? He did not think it wise to depart from those precautionary measures which had regulated the trade of this country fur so many years. The Right Hon. Baronet possessed great popularity in the country, but let him use it rightly—let him not attempt anything so rash, or so hazardous as the prospective alteration in the corn-laws at the end of three years. It was easy for the Minister of a country to give a great victory to one party over another, and if this measure was passed in its present state, it would be regarded by one class as a most triumphant victory over another class—a victory which would not fail to leave a deep-rooted malice in the heart of society, and which it would be impossible to eradies e. If he might be allowed to say a few words to the protectionist party, he would say that he thought they had not acted so wisely or energetically on the present occasion, in re fusing all compromise on the present question. He thought they should not refuse to vote with the lion. Member who moved the last amendment. Whatever might be the increase of the population of this country, he considered it unwise in them to resist any alteration of the law of 1842. He could not conceive how any person, regarding the enormous increase of the population, could regard the corn-law of 1842 as any thing better than a temporary measure, for the purpose of developing the industrial resources of the country. When he looked upon the map of the world, and saw the small amount of acreage of this country compared with the rest of the world, and when he con airier d also that England was the only wheat-eating country in the world, he really could not conceive how Hon. Members could wish to preserve the law of 1842 intact. He begged the Right Hon. Baronet to act with his usual prudence in this mat ter, and he would not fail to reap an abundant reward. Ile knew the difficult position in which the Right Hon. Baronet was placed, in endeavouring to sustain in harmonious connexion the institutions of an ancient monarchy, a dignified and honor aye aristocracy, and a free people. He hoped however that the Right lion. Baronet would not, by persisting in this measure, hold up to the w o rld th e spectacle of a conflict between the mobile classes and the aristocrecy. He begged him to submit to the expae, , ,sion of public opinion. He would not by thus doing compromise his character, but would show to the world that he is the Minister not of one class but of the cornhined energies of the people. Mr. AGLIONBY did not wish to place any obstruction to the progress of the present Bill. He would, however, call the attention of the Right lion. Baronet to the situation of a great nnmber of persona resident in the North of England, which he considered connected with the corn-laws. He did not think any person could predicate the results of the present measure. He found from the speeches which lied been made by Hon. Members on both sides of the House that different results had been predicted. His conviction was, that the price of corn would be reduced by it. It had been said that at all events the farmer would be able to compete with this state of things by an increase of capital and skill, but in some parts of Cumberland there are very few large estates and they are in the hurls of a class of persons called statesmen, a term anala,gous to that of yeoman. They have no capital, their farms are small, and cultivated for the most part by members of their own families. They may no doubt apply themselves to chemical agriculture; this House could not give them capital, but it could relieve them from the difficulties under which they laboured. They are at present under the remnant of a system of feudal tenure. Their farms were all held by copyhold. They are subject to a two years' fine on change of proprietorship. Upon the (heath of the Lord of the Manor they were also sub ject to a two years' flue upon every acre of land. He did not wish to be understood by this statement, that he was opposing the present Bill. He was in favour of the mea sure, but he wanted to do that which was fair and just, and which might result to the benefit of the country. Ile consi dered that the House had power to enfranchise these copyliolds, and thus render the farmers and their families independent of the results Is birth must fohow the passing the present mctsur s. The Hon. Member referred to a repot t of a Committee of thet House, appointed to inquire into the law of copyhold tenure, presented to that (louse on the 13th of August, 1838, of which the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) was a member. It was the opinion of that Committee, that the abolition of a tenure of this nature would be profitable to the country. He (Mr. Aglionby) would not press]the question at the present period ; but at some future stage of the proceedings, when he could have a full discussion, and would be able to enter more into the details, he would bring it under the notice of the 'Luse. Sir R. PEEL hoped that the Hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. M. Milnes) would not think him gulity of disrespect, if ho disclaimed entering into the consideration of his remarks. He could not do so without dividing the whole question. When he proposed his measure, he stated the reasons which had induced him to believe that it was desirable for all parties that a time had arrived for the final settlement of this ques tion. lie could not he felt enter into the question with the Hon. Member, without opening the whole question again. lie must therefore, state that he dissented from the, proposition of the Hon; Member, and he could not therefore consent to the re-opening of the question, the principle of which had been decided by a large majority of that House, composed in a great measure of Hon. Members who considered a total and immediate repeal preferable, but who had on that occasion voted in favour of the measures of her Majesty's Ministers. The Hon. Gentleman says it would be a great advantage, but he seemed to forget that there was another class which would object to it. The present law gave the same facilities, but still it would be very desirable, he admitted, to avoid the expenses of transferring property, and the inconveniences which some times occurred. The greatest disadvantage was felt by those who had to purchase small properties—it was felt by them more than by those who had the power of buying largely, for the expense was not so much a matter of complaint as the inconvenience felt by delay. The impediments for the transfer of property were, lie admitted, very great, but still he thought it would be very unwi eto discuss that question there. At the same time he had no objection that the Hon. Gentleman should reserve to himself th e f u ll power of bringing it under the consideration of the House on some future occasion. Mr. MILES said that the question was to him and-his party a great question of principle. He understood that they would have full and ample debates, and he could assure the House that the feelings of the Members who were opposed to free trade principles which would be known throughout the country. When they arrived at that election, mo.iiet: they be lieved was not far aft, then it would be known whether their opinions or those of the Right Hon. Baronet were the most agreeable; and ho would assure the Right Hon. Baronet that until then, it was not his wish to say one word, or throw any impediment in his way, more than was absolutely necessary. All he would say was, that with all the amendments proposed he entirely disagreed, and he would endeavour to retain that law which the Right Hon. Baronet seemed so anxious to abolish. All he wished was a full, deliberate, and ample discussion of the question, in order that the convi t -ti rthe o l i n th to country may be arrive at. It was necessary i a k gnroiweniiityurouuir produce.statements H th e a tctohnesriedewroeudldt that stit y w a o t u d l il b w e es i s rn io p n o i s n I I changes , Bible for the present holders tion ifefthe contemplatedfarins toretain them, or to maintain their position , were carried into effect. — ( Hear , hear.) He was anxious few words on the change which was said to say a to have taken place in his opinion respecting the immediate repeal in preference to the distant repeal of the corn- laws. Tho Right Hon. Baronet conceived that it was his (Mr. Mites's) opinion that be should prefer the measure of the Noble Lord the member for London to that of her Majesty's Go vernment. Now, what he stated was, that he would give his decided opposition to the propositions of both, at the same time, as far as the farmers were concerned, he (Mr. Mites) stated that he believed they would prefer the measure of the Noble Lord to that of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government. The Hon. Member for Dor chester bears me out in the statement that he now made, to he similar to that which he made on a former occasion. He hoped and trusted, a great discussion having taken place, that another would not then be introduced ; at the same time, he was ready to go on with it if it were for the public service to do so.—(No, no.) He wished it to be distinctly understood, that though they allowed those resolutions to pass, they were opposed to every one of them, and that they allowed them to proceed pro fornid, in order to oppose them on the second and third reading, and finally come to a division, in older to show to the country that they opposed the resolutions brought for ward Sir by R sp t h ß e E R R i t r, E H E on L . s l a i a i d r o i n t et. would be most u nj u s t to ex p ec t o G t i t , n o tl m em ea a s n ot a o cce in d, d co to mm th it e to r e e . sl he was b as eca o u o s t e t t o h e o H p o p n o: o.ut.on, It i was never further from his intention • than to suppose that the Hon. Gentleman would not oppose the Bill. although he distinctly declared that he wouldprefer the proposition of the Noble Lord the Member fur London to deferred repeal, although he preferred the existing law to either.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Miles) stated, that if the Noble Lord the Member for London stood to his guns, he would be ready to support him.—(A laugh.) It appeared to him that the lion. Gentleman was somewhat inconsistent when he said he hoped there was no difference between them. When the lion. Gen tleman states he would not enter into the question, then at the same time it was hardly fair of him to say there would be a great downfall of prices, without at the same time stating any arguments to support him. When he ( Sir R. Peel) proposed a removal of prohibitory duties on a former occasion, by the introduction of cattle, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Miles) then begged for a reduction of the duty upon barley, for the pur pose of feeding the cattle in this country, and said that there would be an enormous depression in the price of meat unless such were done; but he (Sir 11. Peel) did not yet see any ve rification of that prophecy.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. MILES said, that when he made that statement, it was not his own individual opinion. He was merely giving cut door opinion —(Cries of " Oh. oh")—and he did Lot state that foreign cattle would accumulate, and give that fact as a reason for the increase of price , , which evidently would not take place. He hoped he had not proved himself so tall ie s H prophet as the Right on. Baronet would make hi m by him. would be ready at a future pe r iod of the question to show this country convincing arguments that the price of corn In must fall by the introduction of grain from foreign countries by a free-trade measure. Mr. BURROWS could inform the House that the copy hold farmers were suffering under many disa dvantages. They were invaria which they were subjected , bly complaining of the many charges to and he had, upon Inquiry of the sur veyors of the districts , found that the farmers were generally subjected to many charges. Mr. HUME would advise her Majesty's Ministers to follow the advice of the Committee which had made its report in PROTECTION TO LIFE AND PROPERTY. Mr. YOUNG presented a petition from Clare, In favour of the Government measure for affording better protection to life and property in Inland.' THE LEICESTER AND TA3IWORTII RAILWAY. Sir ROBERT PEEL presented a petition from the mayor and inhabitants of Tamworthinfavour of this railway. THE TIMBER DUTIES. Sir ROBERT PEEL presented a petition from the port of Sunderland, signed by one hundred and torty-four shipowners, in favour of the proposed reduction of the timber duties. The petitioners were not partners in any joint stock com pany, but individual shipowners, and stated that the proposed reduction of the duty on Baltic timber would be of the greatest importance, as it would enable them to compete with foreign shipowners in the building of vessels. They not only prayed tile House to reduce the duty, but to abolish it altogether— ( Hear, hear,)--as they considered that such a step would not injure the Canadian trade.—( Cheers. ) LONDON AND OXFONIi RAILWAY. . . A pet hi,n was presented in favour of thi, Bill. .1‘ I r NE V!' DEG ATE (in the absence of Mr. Spooner) moved that the petition of Joshua Tournlin Smith, presented yester day, be printed with the votes.—Agreed to. AMALGAMATION OF RAILWAYS. Mr. W. PATTEN said he had been directed to make an inquiry from the Vice-President of the Board of Trade with respect to the very important question of the amalgamation of existing railway companies. The railway Committee of which he was a Member experienced great difficulty in the case of amalgamation which came before them. He was in duced to ask the question which he was about to put to the Right Honourable Gentleman, not only for the purpose of enlightening the railway Committees, but also the pubitc at large ; because it was one which involved circumstances of a very serious nature. He wished, then, to know whether the Government ;ntended taking any measure this session with the view of .settling the different amalgamation Bills now before Parliament. The Committee had directed him to put the question before they proceeded any further with the subject. One of two plans had been submitted for the settlement of the question; but he thought he might state that the opinion of the Committees was that a question of such vast importance to the country would be much more satisfactorily determined IRELAND. Mr. ROSS presented a petition from Antrim, in farour of the Government measure for affording better security to life and property in Ireland. SUPPLY. Lord INGESTRE asked when the Government proposed to move fora Committee of Supply ? Sir R. PEEL said the Government would be entirely guided by the length to which the discussion on the Govern ment measures might extend this evening. THE GOVERNMENT MEASURES.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. The House then went into Committee on the Customs and Corn Importation Acts. Mr. W. 0. STANLEY rose to propose the following amendment to the propositions of the Government :—" That in lieu of the duties (sow payable on the importation of corn, grain, meal, or flour, the product of foreign countries, there shall be paid a fixed duty of ss. per quarter upon wheat, 23. 6d. on barley, and 2s. on oats ; meal and flour in proportion." He said, although he represented a purely agricultural county (Anglesey) he had not yet t sought proper to trespass on the attention of the House; and in now stating the grounds on which he had thought proper to propose this amendment, he should not occupy much time. Before he did so he had paid the utmost attention to the observations which had fallen tram Hon. Members on both sides of the House, but their ob servations had • not in the least shaken the opinions which he had always maintained. In his estimation the propo‘itions of the Government were just, and would con fer great benefit on the country. He would say, in the words with which the Noble Lord the Member for the city of Lon don conc:u led his last address to the House—" 1 think the interests of the country dc , involved in the immediate, com plete, and tranquil settlement of this question." He cordially agreed in these sentimehts. It was most important to the best interests of the country, that the question of the corn laws should be set at rest, and that it should be effected immediately, completely, and in a tranquil manner. No person could say that the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet if passed into a law would he a tranquil settlement of the questien ; and with reference to an immediate settlement of the question the recorded votes of that House had declared that it should not be immediate. Neither is it a complete set tlernerat, and as a proof that it is not a tranquil settlement he would refer the House to what had been stated by several lion. Members in the course of the debate. Tne lion. Member for Durham (Mr. Bright) and the Hon. Alembee. for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) said they would agitate the question, year after year, so long as the duty remained on foreign corn. He would rectal to the recollection of the House the speeches of Hon. Members on the Opposition benches. The Noble Lord the Member for Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck) said that he would vote for the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet, because in the course of three years there must be a general election, and that period w o uld give them an opportunity of re-organising thei r f orces , an d of raising such a cry in the country as wou ld compel th e Government to 'wind those measures if they should be passed. No one, then, could think the present a tranquil settlement; he therefore proposed an alteration in the proposition of Government, whi c h h e th oug ht w ou ld b e a complete settlement of the questio n . H e f e lt aisure d th a t th e country would be satisfied with a moderate fixed duty ; a duty of that kind would improve the revenue and would not injure the interests of the consumer. Ile had the authority of the Noble Lord, the Member for the city of London, who had stated that a fixed duty of five shillings would not raise the price of foreign corn to the consumer more than one shilling. The Right Honourable Baronet at the head of the Govern ment had r stated in his first proposition to the House, that the principle which he recommended he was not about to confine to any particular class or interest. Now, upon many other important articles of manufacture, such as cotton, linen, leather, and cheese, the Right H onoura bl e G en tl eman de clared it was his intention to reduce the duty ten per cent. On that principle he (Mr. Stanley) proposed that a moderate duty of ss. on wheat, 2s. 6d. on barley, and 2s. on oats, per quarter, should be laid on these ar ticles. Another reason he had for proposing the duty was, that, while it would not hurt the consumer, it would be of great advantage to the agriculturist. He appealed to the Right Hon. Gentleman, and begged to ask him why, in the face of all he had stated, and with the power he possessed of judging of the state of the country, as First Minister, he felt justified in pro posing in the present instance a 4 s. d uty to b e lev i ed on home c onsumption, .while after the lapse of three years foreign corn would be admitted free. It would be but justice to the agri culturists that when the duty on manufactured articles should cease the duty on agriculture should cease also. That was the reason he felt it his duty, though he calculated on very little support, to introduce the present measure to the House, and call upon• Hon. Members to deal with i t as i t m i g h t b e deeme d wor thy. The Hon. Members on the other side of t he House deceived themselves, and they should pause before they ventured en such a step as to throw the country into a state of tumult and agitation by a general election. They would have to array their forces against the League, and such an operation would be attended with some difficulty, for if their proposition were carried out it would disarm their friends. He had no wish to go into the comparative merits of a fixed duty on the sliding-scale, it would be quite sufficient for him to submit his present proposition to the House. If he did so, he must ne cessarily go over ground that had often been traversed before, and he certainly (lid think that it was for the interest of the country that there should be a complete and final settlement of this question. The SPEAKER having put the question, Colonel WOOD said that he, like the Hon. Gentleman op posite, had not as yet taken any part in this debate, and he would therefore now trespass on the attention of the House for a very short time.—(Hear, hear.) He would venture to say that the delay in the settlement of this question had caused most serious results to the poorer claeses and the country at large. He was acquainted with a certain extensive miller who now, in consequence :of the delay of the settlement of the Right Honourable Baronet's measure, did not purchase one farthing-worth corn more than what would just keep his mill going. All parties connected with the agricul tural interest were also suffering moseseriously from this delay. The small tenant-farmers, about wh . orn lion. Members pro fessed to take so much interest, suffered the most seriously ; the disposal of t h e li ttle Y wheatwhieh in yet sayingr ni that they were now losing three to four shillings upon every quarter of wheat, by reaso n ai ned to them ; and he h a d no hesitation of the present suspension of trade, and his firm b e li e f was, that upon the settlement of this question the price of corn would either rise or fail to an awful ex tent. 'The present suspe.nse in the corn trade was productive of the most serious results to the small tenant farmers. And now for the large tena nt - farmers. He believed that in consequence of the present mini ster i al proposal the duty on the iinpuriation of foreign corn had risen, and wa s u p to the present day 18s. p er quarter. ship loads of corn were arriving at every sea-po r t, an d th e i r contents were immediately warehoused, and the consequence would be that after this measure was disposed of, there would be a larger accumulation of foreign corn in the warehouses. But there was another class of society, who did not seem to have been regarded in this debate by any Hon. Member except the Hon. Member f,r Finsbury. Th 4 House would be aware that the measure had been brought forward lately to abolish the pre sent ciuel law of removal to their natives parishes, and he hoped that whilst this House mani'ested its anxiety to pass the present measure, they svould also have regard to the interest of the lower classes, by assisting to their utmost in carrying out the measure to which he had alluded. Let both measures go hand in hand together, and whilst they toook care of themselves, let then take care of their poorer neighbours into the bargain, by relieving them from the operation of the cruel law under which they were now suffering. For his part he was totally opposed to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, for in his opinion the time was arrived when a total repeal of the corn-laws ought to take place. He had no hi st tation in saying that he had voted for every Act that had for its object the regulation, and the reduction of t h e i mport d ut i es on corn. He remembered when the Secretary of War stated in the year 1815, that it was absolutely necessary then to vote for that Act, but he (Col. Wood) had no hesitation in saying that the present Act of Parliament might have the effect of causing a calamity, over which, at present, they could have no control. The Act passed in 1815, and in the year 1816 the most calamitous harvest which he had ever remembered the people of England had to contend with—when a little kiln dried corn would be most useful, but the then regulation of the averages prevented its introduction. The ports opened on the 16th of November, and they remained open until the 18th of August, during which period the prices remained muds the ->. B , ?G, which recommended the doing away with the heavy charges imposed en the copyhold tenant-farmers. It would be the wisest course to make that report a part of the presets question. After a few words from Mr. CURTF.IS, Villich were quite inaudible in the gallery, Sir ARTHUR BROOK said he would state his reasons for voting against the question proposed by her Majesty's Go vernment. He was satisfied that the measure would be of great and incalculable injury to Ireland. In England there was some expectation of a benefit from free trade ; it was an importing country, but it was well known that Ireland exported, and that that export consisted of agricultural produce. The people of Ireland were greatly interested in agriculture, and they would feel the injury of free trade mulch more severely than this country. Ireland was an exporting, and England was an importing country. He was of opinion that the people of Ireland would be much more benefited by full employment than by any result of the Right Hon. Baronet's measure. If they were to open up canals from Lougherne to the river Shan non, it would give employment to thousands, and confer a great advantage on the country. He wished the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork was in his place, as he wished to read a letter from that Hon. Member to Conciliation-hall, It was impossible to expect any measure to be of advantage to Ireland, while those who could an d wou ld spend money there were in danger of losing life and property. The lion. and Learned Member fcr Cork heal said in his letter. that the mea sure about to be proposed by the Government, for the punish ment of crime, should be resisted. He was greatly oppose d to the measure proposed by the Right lion. Baronet for the relief of the distr es s o f the country, and mor e espec ially as it would be greatly injurious to Ireland, and for that reason he should oppose it. Mr. ACLAND wished to say a few words. He thought that if an indefinite arrangement had been proposed, it would not have extended longer than three years, whereas they had now the advantage of knowing their own position. He was glad to see his friend had given his preposition to the House without any of the vituperation which had marked the earlier course of the debate, and that his friend had also refrained from taxing any Member of this House with his changes of opinion.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. STAFFORD O'l3R 'EN begged to second the request of his Hon. F r i en d th e Member for Pontefract, that the House would not divide. lie (Mr. S. O'Brien) found a pro position made by the Government laid upon the table of that House, and he considered it his duty to oppose that proposition. He opposed the Bill without stating his own views with regard to it, or t o th e ma i ntenance of protection as it at present ex isted. He found the motion for the repeal of the corn-laws, and he declared his intention of fighting against it. Mr. CHARLES BULI.ER said that his Hon. Friend had o stating eont contente d te hisdhimself reasons. th I certainly found the motion f or t h e repea l of the corn-laws, andw Tm aretiy did he offeringsaariino thepp o s e i a t i r o l r i i er w p i tahrt of the evening? He sa id h e knew there we y re various amend ments, but he would not notice any of them, nor would his friends propose any amendment on their side. The Hon. Mem ber, who had brought forward the proposition, hal certainly done it with great temper, but when he found that the sense of the House was against it, it would be as well to discontinue his efforts to promote it. Mr. PETER BORTHWICK said that he thought the present measure, as proposed by Government, was uncalled for, under the existing circumstances of the country. He dtd not, however, say that ci r cu ms t ances mig ht no t arise re quiring a chang e i n th e corn -l aws , b u t th ey h a d no t arisen yet. A change ought never to he male at all unless there was enough geod in its effect to balance the evil. The Secre tary for the Home Department had remarked that he (Mr. Borthnick) had prophesied that the corn-laws would not work well—he certainly had done to, but his opinions were now changed, as he thought the laws worked very well,--(Hear, hear.) The meaning cf the oprosition he had given to Go vernment was that her thought the present circumstances re quired no change in the laws, but he was ready at any future period, should circumstances require it, to take into considera tion any project for an alteration in the corn-laws. Mr. WARD said that he was astonished at what he heard from the Hon. Member, when he knew that he was connected with the Protection Society in Bond-st: set, which was pledged up to the very eyes never to allow a repeal of the corn-laws. Yet the Hon. Member made a sort of " Mysteries of Udelpho" speech, in which he contemplated the probability of supporting a measure for an alteration in the corn-laws arter such a do claraeion. He (Mr. Ward) could have no mote confidence in him than he could in any Member on his side of the House, and that world he rcducittg it to a very small scale. Mr. LAW SON said, that if this measure were carried, ruin would be the result of it. In his neighbourhood, both Whig and Tory concurred in the belief that protection was necessary to agriculture. fIUME said that the protectionists had declared that they would fight this Bill from pe,t to pillar. At a meetirg of the Agricultural Protection Society last Tuesday, a resolution was proposed by 31r. W. F,her Hogg, and seconded by the Duke of Richmond, which resolution set forth that the altera tion proposed by Sir Robert Peel would cheapen food and other artit-les to the injury of the labourer and manufacturer, and therefore they acre bound to maintain protection and resist the progress of the abolition of the corn laws. Since that time several Members had modified their opinions, and he, for one, was glad to receive a convert, however he was obtained. Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said that he had stated nothing more than his simple opposition to the measure, and that he would give no reason for that opposition. Mr. FI Z GERALD said he had paid great attention to the measure proposed by the Government, and he thought the Irish people would reap as much benefit from it as the English people. It certainly had not been lift to their choice ;no per son had applied to the Irish people to ascertain their opinions on the subject, therefore the Irish had only to adopt the mea sure as it came to them, and to ascertain what benefit they would obtain from it. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said that he begged leave to say to the Honourable Member ( Mr. Hume) that there was no flinching on that side of the House to uphold pro teeti. n to agricultural produce, and to other articles of domestic eonsumption. If the Secretary for the Home Department would only fulfil the pledges and promises he gave to the coun try in 1826, what compensation would he not have to give to agriculture? He had promised that 30 per cent. should be taken from annuities chargeable on land, with various other deductions of a like nature. Relieve them from tithes, poor rates, the malt-duty, the duty on distilled spirits, and the hop duty, and they would defy the world. Not one among them would ask for protection then. Put he would tell the Hon. Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward) that while these burdens remained on land, they (the protectiouist.,) would still claim that a certain amount of protection be c,needed. lllr. 11. MILNES said he made the proposition tinder a strong sense of public duty, but seeing the feeling of the House, he would beg leave to withdraw it. The amendment was accordingly withdrawn. Mr. P. HOWARD then rose to move that the amount of duty proposed by the Government be extended to the Ist of Febi, 1851, instead of for three years. He said he would briefly state the reasons that had led him to make this motion. It was in order that the change might be gradual, and with due respect to existing interests and coot! acts. He knew that there were many farms held on lease in the country ; held for periods of seven and fourteen years, and to withdraw the pre sent amount of protection from them would be doing the far mers a great injustice. In order to preserve the interest of those who had made those leases, as well as other contracts that had been entered into, he now proposed the extension of the period. While making the motion, he would beg leave to ob serve, however, that unless the House showed a fair disposition to entertain his preposition, he would follow the example of other Gentlemen who had proposed amendments, and withdraw in—( Hear, hear.) He wished the question settled as soon as possible; so that they might be prepared with peace at home to resist aggreoien abroad ; and he must observe that though he differed in some respects with thellinisterial proposi tion, he did not consider it either an unconstitutional or uncalled for measure. He would have preferred a fixed permanent duty, like that which prevailed in Belgium, where the Govern ment had a discretionary power of relaxing it, whenever any exigency arose. If the present measure passed, he trusted the farmer would not suffer from competition with the foreian agriculturist ; and with the expression of this hope, though he would have been glad at an extension of the period for the termination of the duty, he would, under the circumstances, as seeing the disposition of Hon. 'Members, confine himself now to the simple declaration of his sentiments on the subject. He could not but rejoice that they had secured a period of mo derate protection before entering upon their new career, as it would prepare the country for that great change. He thanked the House for the attention they had paid him, and he would con clude by saying, that though he had formerly supported the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London, in r pro e pos t iLi e g fixed duty, ho would, now that the House ha , d ,r l d all he principle of a total repeal at the end of three years, e n ee . Hon. Member sat could to give effect to that uses ore. T down by withdrawing his . amendm ent. light t ou n t s the three years' securi ty , e s e ar s n a e id li Sir W. JOLII'FE, could n ni r d e n fe n r t en se c e e toit in t h w e lion. Gentleman who had just sat down. He could not look u pon it as any security at all. There might b e a c h ange of Ministers, and Sir R. Peel be succeeded by Lord John Russell ; in which case that Noble Lord would be bound, accord ing to his professions, to propose a total repeal.--( Hear, hear.) There could, therefore, be no security ; and he, for one, if a change was to take place, would prefer the settlement of the question at once by a total repeal.---( hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman COPELAND entirely concurred in the measures of the Right Hon. Baronet, and was glad that the Hon. Gentleman had withdrawn his resolution. lie would state a fact, to show that the farmers did not seem to dread the proposed alteration in the corn-laws. He knew the case of a farmer, who had just taken a farm from one of the Cor porations in Yorkshire at an advanced rent. The former tenant had paid 1,22.0/., rent, but the new one took it at 1,4001. This fact had a great influence on his mind, and the commercial world, and showed the fears expressed by lion. Gentlemen were groundlecs. After a few words from Mr. FINCH, in reply to the state ment of the previous speaker, Lord G. BENTINCK said he would take that opportu nity of asking the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government what he expected would be the probable opera tions of his Bill ? Could he give any idea of what the ave rage price of wheat would be ? He (Lord George Bentinck) thought that a Minister, making a proposition of the kind be fore the House, was bound to state what would be the probable price of labour under it. He also wished to know what was to be done in the commutation of tithes ? It was stated on a former occasioe, by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department, that the price of wheat would be about 455. a quarter, and it was also stated by the Right Hon. Baronet in 1842, that a duty of Is. per quarter would be no protection whatever to Ireland, but a great injury. He (Lord G. Bentinek) wished to know if the sentiments of the Right Hon. Baronet were stiil in accordance with these views? Judging from all they had previously stated, wheat, under the new system, must average from 455. to 50s. per quarter. Sir R. PEEL, who was very inaudible, from his turning his back to the gallery in addressing his observations towards (Lord George Bentinck) said, that he really could not give an answer to the questions of the Noble Lord. He had no desire of reviving the discussion which had al ready occupied te House for three wee ks. The Id have heard the R. Peel) stated in that debate, else he . wou He then endea voured to show the causes that opert e ed of to wheat. And in so production, and to reducc h th i e p during which the average last alteration in the corn-laws, t the result of the of wheat was 51s. that that price NV,. . price agricultural improvements and doing, he showed that within the three years afrer the He shots ed that agricultural pros causes of another builtnat e u n r the price of wheat, for it would ap pear,perity was not • s 67e per quarter, while the that in 1842, tee . price was . corn laws, but arose from that agricultural prosperity did not depend on the exist enceproof ' three years following it averaged , 51s. This was a strong of the corn-laws. Ile had no answer to make to what he m i g ht have previously stated, or to passages fro m " 'Hansard," but to say that, having paid the closet attention t o th e quest i on, he had seen reason to change his views ;and whilst h e cast no imputation on other lion. Gentlemen for any opinion they might entertain, or any cha nge o f sentiment they might have lie tru s t e d t h ey would ex'eud the same t c e o n n t s i i o d r e l s r , a t a i r o i n d to h e h i m cl .ai claimed gapet s h a e m m e seen proper to make, !ti e l r l i credit l f f . o r h L o a rr s e t s year, when the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) made his speech for the repeal of the corn-laws, he (Sir Robert Peel) replied to it, and on that occasion Lord Howick, now Earl Grey, said, it was conclusive in favour of a gradual repeal of the corn-laws. Since then circumstances had shown him the necessity of the course he now proposed to the House. But he had no desire to go into the discussion, as he seas desirous that the Bill should be brought its founded upcn the resolutions ....0 sack at e {light ranleot