The Sun. — London, England, 1846-03-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 110 USE OF LORDS, March 9. Their Lordships met to-day at Five o'clock. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. A messenger from the House of Commons brought up several Bills. PROTECTION TO AGRICULTURE. The Earl of STRADBROKE presented several peti tions from places in Staffordshire in favour of protection to agriculture, and against the Government measures. They complained that the attempt now made to re peal the corn-laws was a breach of faith with the agricultural interest, as the measure of, 1842 was re presented to be a final settlement of the question. They also complained of the compensation proposed, which they considered altogether inadequate. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from the hop growers of the county of Sussex against the measures proposed by the Government, which the peti tioners stated, would be ruinous to their interests. The Noble Duke likewise presented upwards of thirty peti tions from the county of Derby, praying that protection to native industry might not be withdrawn. Ile also pre• sented petitions to the same effect from different places in Devonshire. NUNS OF MINSK. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to know from the Noble Earl the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether he had recently received any further intelli gence respecting the persecution which these indivi duals had undergone in Russia. Ile had seen in the newspapers of that morning some additional par ticulars respecting them, and he wished to know if the Noble Lord had received any documents ? The Earl of ABERDEEN had seen a copy of the re port recerred to by the Noble Marquis, which appeared in that morning's papers, and he had every reason to believe that that statement was correct. When the subject was referred to by a Noble Lord, a few even ings ago, he took the liberty of saying that it was one with which they had nothing to do, and he considered that it would be most unwise in them to take any steps in reference to it. At the same time he expressed, and further declared, his belief that there were no grounds whatever for the accusation. There might be ecclesias tical severity, and religious persecution, but he did not think that there were any of the atrocities cammitted which were alleged. The very existence of the. person in the present transaction was called in question, and it was ascertained that there was no official deposition made at Rome similar to that which had appeared. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it was a source of great satisfaction to him, and it would be to the country, to hear the statement of his Noble Friend. Lord BEAUMONT said he would wish to say one word upon this subject. He did not wish to say now whether lie believed these statements or not ; but he quite agreed with the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs that this House could not interfere in the matter. LAW OF MORTMAIN. Lord BEAUMONT said he had a petition to present, signed by a large number of very wealthy inhabitants of Durham and Northumberland, praying that steps might be taken to- restrain the power of th Roman Catholic Bishops in the law of Mort main, or else the result would be oppressive to the clergy to 1 unjust to the laity. Lord BROUGHAM said he was aware that many highly respectable Roman Catholics, possessed of very large property indeed, had declared that they thought the law of mortmain did not go far enough in affecting real property only. He was aware that some of those persons were worth five and six thousand a year He was desirous of obtaining the same advantages in the law of England as is obtained in the provision of the French law ; he believed that according to the code of Napoleon it was devised that no clergyman, medical officer, or solicitor, who was in attendance during the last illness of any in dividual, should take any bequest under his will without a very explicit declaration of his feelings, and he thought too great care could not be taken in this country, or the subject. Lord CAMPBELL could not refrain from expressing the very high satisfaction he felt at the general good sense his Noble and Learned Friend had just now evinced. lie believed that it was highly necessary to obtain the advantage of securing an individua in a case of severe illness, from solicitations to rob his own family, from what was generally termed pious purposes. It was the law of every other country in Europe, and the regulations of those laws were, if possible, most stringent, and the greatest care was taken to hinder the attempts of interested indiviluals from interfering with persons who were quite unable to think for themselves, and he thought that any measure that might be determined upon on the part of Government would be in the highest degree satisfactory. CORN- L .9. The Duke of RUTLAND presented several petitions against any alteration in the corn-laws. SCOTTISH SCHOOLMASTERS. The Duke of RICHMOND wished to inquire whether any steps were likely to be taken by the Government to revive the Committee of last year for providing any suitable dwellings for the schoolmasters in Scotland ? It was well known that the Commission of last year led to no result. The Duke of BUCCLEUCII said that the Committee of last year was likely to be revived this session, but it waited for the attendance of several Noble Lords that reside in Scotland, and whose assistance it was desirable to obtain in that Committee; the subject had not escaped the attention of Government, and as soon as they ob tained the report of this Committee they were prepared to act. He hoped in the course of a day or two, in conse nuence of the attendance of Noble Lords to whom he alluded, to move the re appointment of the Committee. PROTECTION OF LIFE AND PROPERTY (IRE LAND) BILL. Lord DENMAN said that he would proceed in the shortest possible manner to state to their Lordships his views with regard to the Coercion Bill for Ireland. In the first place, he had heard with abhorrence and regret the statement which had been made in that House the other night, when its sanction to the Bill had been so licited. He did not mean to enter at any great length on the Bill, but he believed that the less stringent the Bill was in its nature, and the less it inter fered with the ordinary feelings of mankind, the more likely it was to be efficient With regard to the first clause giving to the Lord Lieutenant the power of placing any district where a solitary offence had been committed, under the operation of the Act, it was altogether too great a stretch of authority. It appeared that where any murder or attempt at murder had been made, or any assault, with intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, had been perpetrated, that that solitary fact was to be sufficient ground for calling this measure into action. The House was aware that such crimes were occa sionally committed in every country, mid yet the com mission of a single crime was to be a justification for using this Act. He had suggested to their Lordships that the justices of the peace in every county should make a representation to the Lord Lieutenant, in the event of this measure being necessary, bat that pro position was not approved of. He had, however, found on inquiry that the Lord Lieutenant had sufficient information from the ordinary police reports, and he - (Lord Denman) could not see the objection to giving his Excellency the power of calling this Act into opera tion, on his own responsibility, a 3 such a course would be preferable to the present system.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the transportation clause, where any person found out of his dwelling after sunset and before sunrise was liable to that punishment, he confessed that he could not help feeling a very strong reluc tance to an Act granting such a power, with out the fullest proof of the necessity for it. He owned that the mere right of taking up indivi duals who have been found out after sunset and before sunrise, was, in in his opinion, giving a very extended power to the Executive Government. He thought, therefore, that the person so taken into custody should be allowed to make an explanation before being taken to prison ; and he was glad to find that this clause had been altered in the Bill, for this purpose the person being taken immediately before the petty sessions. He was sorry to find that there was one con dition in that clause which pressed rather hardly upon the individual—he meant that which provided that if oily one magistrate were sitting at the ses sions the person should be taken to prison. He thought the liberty of the subject ought not to depend upon the accident of only one magistrate being at the time at the petty sessions. He regretted also that the punish ment consequent upon the offence was so severe. He felt a repugnance to transportation for fifteen years, or (as it was now reduced) seven years. He did not think this severe punishment would be attended with any good effect. Their Lordships were perhaps aware that a transportation for seven years was in many cases a transportation for life, because persons in that humble station of life could not always command mand the means of returning home. He was t o ld transportation was a punishment they &ended, and that they cared nothing fur imprisonment ; but the power of apprehending was ' a Dower for the prevention of mischief f or the me at least, and let the House depend on it that imprisonment was not a light punishment to a induced the other labouringday man. He had been speak to the Noble Lord who had intr o d uced ° view of making the punishment the measure, with a T a ro i !e e ortihnate, that was to say that the individual niinu slightly pu n i s h e d for the first offence, more heavily the second, and when °mindul punished f or third time that he should be held contumacious, ht u e and sentence of transportation be passed p There was other subject to which he wouldoT him. i refer It was that which related to the change of venue to. another county to that in which an offence was com mitted. If a strong ease was made out for this Act at all, then ought the power to change the venue be gi ven , i n order to put down such schemes and associations as were supposed by the Act to exist. —(llcar, hear.) The law Which existed in this country on the subject ought to be extended to Ireland. He could not agree with the Noble and Learned Lord bshind him, that it was a great privilege for parties charged with offences to be tried by their neighbours ; there were many cases in which it would operate injuriously for persons to be tried within the limit of small Jurisdictions ; and there were many instances in which it was niuch more convenient for offenders to be tried out of the county in which the offences were committed than in it. There were many parts in Lan cashire, Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, in which it was found much more convenient to try parsons in the ad• joining county. It was a great consolation to him (Lord Denman) to learn that the Noble Lord (the Earl St. Ger mans) in his statement the other evening, did not state that juries were intimidated in the discharge of their duties ; still he (Lord Denman) could not but think that such must be the case if the violence and insubordination stated to be the foundation of the Bill bad an existence. It would be better and safer in his opinion, however, that instead of introducing the power of changing the venue in any particular Bill, like the one he was considering, to introduce the principle into a general Act of Parlia ment, so that the practice might be the same in Ireland as in England. The practice of the Court of Queen's Bench, in his opinion, ought to be made gene ral, and he would, therefore, submit this point to the consideration of her Majesty's Government. With regard to the 20th clause, he had every objection to its becoming a part of the Bill, for it appeared to him that it should not be a local or temporary Act. It was one of the greatest offences which could be committed, and he did not see why they should have the odium of making it a particular instead of a general Act. He had great regret in finding that particular circumstances rendered it necessary that it should be applicable to any part of _the United_ . _ Kingdom ; but he submitted that it was an offence which should be made the subject not of a particular but of a general law. He also felt that the punishment of trans portation was one which ought not to be lightly in flicted. Lord BROUGHAM agreed with some ef the obser vations made by the Noble Lord who hadjust sat down, and he especially agreed in every opinion he had expressed that the law should be general, not particular. He would not now refer to his own amendments, but would come to the punishment of transportation. Now, ho denied that the punishment of transportation was one inflicted for a light offence. In the first place the case was one where a discretionary power was given to the Judge who should try the pri soner, - and it could not be inflicted unless the individual apprehended was arrested under suspi cious circumstances. To be convicted even then, it must be proved to the satisfaction of a jury that the individual was out not on a lawful occasion. Unless the jury were satisfied that such was the fact they could not act on it. It had been said that there would be no possibility of a party ?roving the lawfulness of the occasion on which he was out, but it was not from being out that a man would be taken up . because he would not be under any apprehension unless in a district that had been proclaimed, and in such a district nothing could be easier than for a man to provid e hi mse lf w i t h ev id ence by which to prove the lawfulness of the occa sion.—(Hear, hear.) The fact of a man being out merely, would not be sufficient to warrant h's arrest ; but if a man were found with a pistol, or a bludgeon, or a dagger, and with a baud of fifty others, then indeed he would be liable to be arrested, and should account for himself. Why, the fact of being out with others under such cir cumstances, would render any individual liable to the imputation of being out for treasonable purposes. Me did not mean to say that this being out would amount to a treasonable act, but he could not but say that many a lesser act had amounted to rebellion against the queen's authority. The individual charged was not to be liable to transportation for being out at night, bat for being so under suspicious circumstances. He was glad, however, that in consequence of the suggestion of his Noble Friend the duration of the Act was to be confined for three years. He thought there was very good reason assigned for such a decision of the Legislature, for if the Act was sufficient for the purpose, the sooner it was repealed the better, and if it were insufficient fur that object they would then have it in their power to provide a more efficient remedy for the subject. Earl GREY could not help believing that the Noble and Learned Lord who had just sat down had entirely misapprehended not only his own motion but the amend ment of the Lord Chief Justice. He thought the Noble and Learned Lord had conceived that the fact of an individual being out at night was a far more serious offence than it was ; and unless there was also the ad dition of very suspicious circumstances, the serious sen tence of transportation was far too grave for the offence. Now it was very easy to create suspicious circumstances where they never existed. A man might go out under the pretence of meeting a friend, whereas his real ob ject might be to join a party of Whiteboys. Another might go out with the r ea l i n t en ti on , i t m i g h t b e, to commit an act of Whiteboyism ; and he thought it was too heavy a punishment to subject a man to trans portation for a mere act of thoughtlessness, and for leaving after nightfall the miserable cabin to which during twelve or sixteen hours they confined him. The more he considered the subject the more he felt it con trary to justice th a t so h eavy a pun i s h ment s h ou ld b e given to so slight an offence. They might say that it would not be a slight offence if a man were found out at night with a pistol and a dagger in •• 'ocket, and evidently going to the commission of offence. If he was taken up there could be no difficu y in providing that he should be searched, and if he was found to be armed or disguised, it would be easy to make that a se parate offence by a clause to that effect. It was not just that so severe a punishment should be gills equally to men guilty of a serious offence and men 'Billy guilty of a breach of police regulation. He had been surprised at the way in which the Noble Lord had bolstered up his view of the case, but while he had had the honour of a seat in that or the other Hone, he had never seen so slight an offence visited with a heavy punishment. Lord BROUGHAM said, that if the Noble Lord lived much longer, he would see much stranger things. He had taken to himself all the credit of the proposi tion of the Lord Chief Justice, but he should remember while he was talking of heavy punishments for slight offences, that for the venial offence of being out after sunset he had proposed that a man should be imprisoned for three years. Earl ST. GERMANS suggested that the discussion of the measure should be postponed until to-morrow, when several amendments would have to be taken into consideration. The Noble Lord, while complaining of the power given to the Lord Li e ut enan t, h a d propose d to give him a larger discretionary power than the Bill as it at present stood allowed him. It seemed to him that the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland might take, upon his own responsibility, th e power o f proc l a i m i ng any par ticular district ; a n d h e th oug h t i t was a suff i c i ent limit ation that he could not proclaim any district in which the crime of murder, or a crime approaching to murder, had not been committed. He confessed, then, that he did not see the advantage of adopting the suggestion made by the Noble and Learned Lord ; but he at the same time was free to confess that he would like to see the amendment which the Noble and Learned Lord proposed on the subject. With regard to changing the venue, he had taken the liberty of suggesting to the Noble and Learned Lord on the woolsack to withdraw his amendment, because he considered that the matter called for the general consideration of Parliament, whether they should not make this a general measure, as h . e was convi nce d th a t t h e amen d ment d id not d o Justice to this important subject. With regard to the 20th clause, he coincided in the opinion expressed by the Noble Lord, and if the Bill which the Noble and Learned Lord had introduced were passed this session, he should altogether agree w i t h hi m that there was no necessity for this clause. But they all knew that the passing of any measur e th roug h b ot h Houses of Par liamentin the course of a session was a matter of great uncertainty, and therefore he thought it better that the 20th clause should be allowed to remain in the Bill. With regard to transportation, he also agreed in a con siderable degree with the Noble and Learned Lord. The Noble Earl who sat opposite had drawn a very forcible picture in his speech the other evening, and he had been so much pleased with his own performance that he had again presented the same picture to them. He had presented a picture of an innocent man, who had been out after sunset for the purpose of seeing a sick friend, and of a guilty man, who had used the same pre text, but had been rosily out for the purpose cf joining a party. The Noble Earl asked if it would not be very hard to transport the innocent man who had been found out under such circnmstances, but in his conscience he (liarl St. Germans) believed that the Noble Earl's own amendment of three years with hard labour, was much worse than seven years' transportation. He to a certain extent agreed with what had fallen from the Noble Lord, for he had supported the alteration of the clause to the form in which it now stood. He also concurred in the observations of the Noble and Learned Lord (Denman), in regard to the introduction of his Bill, and would be happy to see what he wanted done in the present session. Lord STRADBROKE made a few observations, which were perfectly inaudible. Lord CAMPBELL would support the Bill of the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Denman). Its object was to prevent the intimidation of juries and witneises; and any person who was guilty of such an offence, in his (L6rd Campell's) opinion, deserved transportation. It was a Bill that ought to be made a permanent law, and applied to every part of the United Kingdom. He re joiced that he had the con c urrence of the high authority of his Lordsh:p in the objections he (Lord Campbell) bad made to the Government Bill. He had also to com• , plain that important amendments, which had been agreed to on Friday night last, on two clauses, and that one especially where "suspicious circumstances" had been agreed to be inserted, were not to be found in the Bill as it now appeared. In neither the one clause nor the other did these amendments appear. The 21st clause also had been amended, but the alteration had not been made. Earl ST. GERMANS intimated that it was an omission in one case, and that the other clause had been postponed. Lord CAMPBELL was happy to know that there was a mistake, as ho felt much annoyed that the Bill did not appear with the amendments which had been agreed to. He hoped that the suggestions made by the Noble Earl who had just sat down, would be attended to. These suggestions entirely agreed with those which ho (Lord Campbell) had made when the Bill was under dis cussion a few days ago. What he most anxiously wished for was au amendment in reference to the change of venue. No doubt it would be very desirable that in cer tain cases the venue should be changed, but then it would be only fair that the prisoner should have the ad vantage of being able to avail himself of this privilege as well as the prosecutor ; and it would also be very de sirable that the power of changing the venue should be vested in the Court of Queen's Bench, before which good cause should be shown before the change was made. The LORD CHANCELLOR said it was quite apparent that th e Noble and Learned had just sat down, theavas not in th e House upon Lord who the occasion of had Irma of the amend ment to which he or ho would not have addressed the o b szrvatien Lord if la had fallen from him to the House. He (th e en tirely concurred in the necessity for this lic ;iil7 andr) therefore he would give it his m )st hearty support: begged to remind his Noble and Learned Friend that a similar Bill, introduced by him three years ago, had a clause in it condemning a person convicted of being out at night to three years imprisonment, and he was to b e tried, not by the ordinary courts of law, but by a court martial.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord talked of the limits of discretion, and he said that they might impose an imprisonment of three or four years for lighter offences ; that they should limit the punishment in all grave cases to seven years transportation. Now he ccm ceived that the law in this country was carried out with leniency and great discretion ; and he thought that it might be safely left to the ordinary functions of the law to understand with what severity they should visit the offenders who might be brought before them, whether for the simple o:fetwe of being out at night, or whether it should be established to their satisfaction that the parties have been guilty of a more heinous crime—for , instance, individuals that had been brought before them might have surrounded the house for the ostensible pur pose of demanding arms, but for the ultimate intention of murdering or ill-treating. lie would readily admit with the Noble Earl, that the simple offence of being out at night in a proclaimed district would be sufficiently punished with two or three years' imprisonment ; but as these offences were to be tried by judges of the ordi nary tribunals of the country, who had always admi nistered the law with great lenity and kindness, he thought that cages subject to the charge of aggravation might be safely left to their own discretion. Earl St. GERMANS thought that the case was materially affected by the peculiar circumstances of it, as for instance, a number of individuals might be out, not armed, with what are called weapons, but in struments of husbandry, that he thought would meet the objections of the Noble Duke on the cross benches, whose observations would always be entitled to the utmost consideration and received with the utmost re- spect. But ho believed that the remarks had been fully answered ; and he, therefore, proposed to bring up the reports as soon as possible; not to-morrow, but Thurs day, or Friday at the latest. The Duke of RICHMOND said, he gave an unwill ing support to the Bill ; but he did not like to see the postponement of it, for the purpose of making it more palatable to the House, and he hoped the measure would not be made more stringent than was absolutely neces sary to meet the state of Ireland. Earl St. GERMANS quite agreed with the Noble Duke, that the provisions of the Bill should not be more stringent than the state of crime in Ireland de manded ; and he was as anxious as any one to make it meet the present exigencies, without, if possible, in fringing the liberty of the subject. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that if the Bill was necessary, no time should be lost in carrying it through the House. and if unnecessary, he thought the Government should not have brought it forward; and if so he would very much regret the vote he gave the other evening, which vote he gave because he felt that the whole of the arguments brought forward were fully sustained on that occasion—otherwise the measure should not have received the sanction of his vote. He gave his vote for the protection of that party who seemed to be left out of consideration altogether —the innocent people who were oppressed, and .chose liberties and whose lives were safe neither night nor day in those disturbed districts of Ireland, where crime was so common and so difficult to put down. He could prove, from evidence he received that day— he did not like to name names, for it was very well known it was not safe to do so—and their Lordships he was sure would not require him to do so that in a considerable town in Ireland there were per sons employed in the bank, who were obliged to take exercise at an early hour, because they were afraid to remain in the town after nightfall. With such a state of things no other measure ought to interfere, and he thought the Government were bound to prosecute the present Bill, and let no measure in the other House interfere with such a Bill as the one before their Lord ships. He regretted it should be found necessary (if it was necessary) to proceed with such a measure, but the Government were responsible for the protection of the property and lives of her Majesty's subjects in Ireland, and were bound to act in the best way to meet that responsibility. If they said the measure was necessary he would support them, but if not, then he would vote with pleasure against the passing of such a law as that which they proposed. He always thought it much more dangerous to see Government straining the mlinary law, than to pass a measure of a stringent na ture fur temporary purposes, especially when it was for the purpose of protecting the British subject. With respect to the Bill under consideration, he must say it was a very stringent measure, although recommended by his Noble Friend (Denman). If their Lordships looked at some of the clauses they would see that any person offering a bribe was liable to be transported, but still, as they had the authority of the highest, as well as the lowest, for saying, that life and property was inse cure in Ireland, l is could not vote against it, and he thought there should not have been such a bother made about its passing into a law. They had the authority of the Repeal Association, who were, he believed, more ac tive than her Majesty's Government in putting down crime in Ireland, for they actually sent down a gentle man, who was called,he believed, the " Head Pacificator" (from having been very successful on former occasions in tranquillising the people), for the purpose of stopping the outrages so frequently committed, and he returned from his mission and acknowledged that he had sig nally failed. If such authority was seen to fail in Ireland, he thought their Lordships need not be afraid to grant her Majesty's Government the power which they demanded, for the purpose of suppressing the crimes and outrages which unhappily prevailed at present to a considerable extent in Ireland. The Earl of WICKLOW said he was exceedingly sorry his Noble Friend withdrew for that night the further consideration of the Bill, on the ground that there was business of greater importance before the other House of Parliament, and of so imperative a nature as to supersede all other measures for the present ; and he (the Earl of Wicklow) quite agreed with his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Clanricarde) that if the measure was not of immediate necessity it ought not to pass at all, but should be postponed to some future occasion. His Noble Friend said he should post pone the further consideration of the Bill until Thurs day, and he hoped that in the interim he would turn his mind to the amendment which was proposed respecting persons found out after sunset. The magistrates at petty sessions are to meet only once a-week, and a person might be arrested and kept in prison for six days and seven nights, although perfectly innocent. In every previous Bill persons were immediately brought before a magistrate, but it was stated that a single ma gistrate would not like to take a responsibility on him self, and that he would not be safe in doing so ; now it was very well known that the people were never disposed to visit magistrates with punishment for simply the per formance of their duty. He believed a case of the kind never occured, and he believed no magistrate would suf fer from such an apprehension. If there was any great ground for entertaining such a belief, he would call the attention of his Noble Friend to the amendment for the change of venue, as one of great importance, for if magistrates were in danger for doing their duty, how much more dangerous would be the position of jurors and witnesses. He believed that it was imperative that the petty sessions should sit more frequently, in order to meet the objections which he had made, but how were they to make unpaid magistrates attend for the per formance of judicial duty. It may be said that stipen diary magistrates could attend, but there was no pro • vision in the Bill to that effect, and they had not a power to do it. The people he apprehended might be kept for a week, and during that period there might be no petty sessions, but their Lordships would have an opportunity of discussing the measure when it came before them. Lord MONTEAGLE said it was a just and legiti mate thing for his Noble Friend to throw out the sug gestions which they had heard, but great inconvenience might arise by giving the power to a single magistrate ; and yet if they did not, how could the magistrate decide on the cases brought before him ? By bringing a man who was innocent immediately before a neighbouring magistrate, and taking bail for him, the party accused might easily perhaps prove his innocence at the petty sessions, and give an explanation which would be quite sufficient without keeping him in prison. The LORD CHANCELLOR wished to know whe ther the Noble Lord would mike it imperative on the magistrate to bail the party accused ? Lord MONTEAGLE said that he would not make it incumbent on the magistrate to take bail. Earl ST. GERMANS said that they would have time to examine the amendments, and should be able to present them for consideration on o-morrow evening. Lord BROUGHAM said that it appeared to him, as the Bill then stood, that a person might be sent to Botany Bay for taking a ston e ou t o f a wa ll or a stake out of a hedge, provided he had b een b e f ore prosecute d . Lord DENMAN said that in committee the Bill would require a great deal of consideration, and as it would go before a Committee, then they would be at liberty to modify it. The Government were bound to put down intimidation, which was at present practised to prevent jurors and witnesses from doing their duty, and he thought there was not the slightest analogy between the two cases—that of the necessity of changing the venue and protecting witnesses from intimidation. He did not wish it to be said, because he had introduced some amendments of the Bill that, he was, therefore, an advo cate for unlimited privileges. Lord BROUGHAM said he had no doubt but his Noble Friend would alter his Bill, although it was a dangerous thing to prophecy—(A laugh)—at the same time he did not object to the measure. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 9. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes before Four o'clock. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time and ordered to be committed, viz. : Dundee New Gas Dover and Deal Railway Upwell-cum-Welney Rectory Northumberland Docks Conglcton and Crewe Railway Great Grimsby and Sheffield Junction Railway Ex temism (No. 2) Glaig,ow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway (Branches to Thornliebank, Ilousehill, and liarlet) Ely and Bury Railway Southport Improvement Dundee Gas Amendment Colchester Navigation and Improvement ,Bury Gas Bury Waterworks Monmouthshire Railways Rugby and Huntingdon Railway Derby and Crewe Junction Railway Woodstock Roads Chichester, Portsmouth, and Rireham Railway (by order) London and Birmingham Railway and Birmingham Canal Arrangements (by order) Eastern Union Railway—Ardleigh to'. Colchester (by order) Gravesend and Rochester Railway Great Western Railway Hu ß d l d i e lw rs a fi y e s l d A a m a al d g S am he a ffi tion eld, and Manchester and Leeds Liverpool and Bury, and Manchester and Leeds Rail ways Amalgamation Mitcham and South-Western Railway (by order) General EVANS presented a petition, signed by 170 shareholders, praying that the Great North and South WO ks Railway Bill might not pass into a law. NEW WRIT. Dlr. YOUNG moved for a nelvwrit for the borough of Windsor, in the room of Ralph Neville, Esq., who has accepted the office of one of the Lords of the Treasury Mr. ENTWISLE presented a petition, signed by the Mayor, 10 alderman, and 199 of the princip4l in habitants of Manchester, in favour of the West Riding Union Railway Bill, and praying that the standing orders might be dispensed with. Several other lion. Members also presented petitions to the same effect. THE GOVERNMENT MEASURES. Mr. 0. DUNCONIBE presented a petition from the North Riding of Yorkshire against the measures proposed by the Ministry. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the county of Clare praying for the establishment of a loan office in that county. FREE TRADE. Mr. BRIGHT presented several petitions in suppor of free trade. PUBLIC FUNDS FOR HORSE-RACING. Dr. I3OWRING presented a petition from a place in the north of Engla►►d, the name of which we did not catch, against the granting of any public funds for the encouraxement of horse-racing. Al3o a petition against the West Ridirg Union Railway sill. Sir J. TYRLELL presented a petition from Cs;gshill against calling out the militia. THE POST-OFFICE. Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the proprietor of the Sentinel newsp4per (as we understood) complaining that when any inquiry was entered into by that House with respect to the Post office, the Post -office authorities withheld information. He also complained of a publication called the Post office Directory, by which he said the public were injured. Mr. Kelly, the proprietor of that publication, hal stated that the .profits of the work amounted to 1,2561. per annum, whereas the petitioner was prepared to prove that they amounted to 10,0001. per annum. He, therefore. prayed for inquiry. MERCHANT SEAMEN'S FUND. Mr. HUME presented a petition from a meeting pre sided over by Sir E. Codrington, praying for an inquiry into the state of the Merchant Seamen's Fund, with a view of founding some substantial and proper establish ment, which would include all merchant seamen, and ap plying the funds, which were now disposed of in five or six different ways, to their proper purposes. THE WA OF SATTARA. The HoN. MEMBER also presented a petition from an Association in Dublin, praying for an inquiry into the cir cumstances which had led to the deposition of the Raja, with the view of removing the injustice which seemed to have been exercised in his case. STEAM COMMUNICATION WITH AUSTRALIA. Dr. BOWRING begged to put the question of which he had given notice, namely, whether any measure had been taken in order to give to the colony of Australia the advantage of steam navigation ? Mr. CAItDWELL said the subject was a most im portant one, and the attention of Government had been directed to it, but he was not than in a position to inform the Hon. and Learned Member that Government had determined on any fixed plan, with regard to the afford ing steam communication to Australia. FAMINE IN IRELAND. Mr. O'CONNELL hoped the House would allow him to correct a mistake into which some of the news papers had fallen respecting the statement which he made on Friday evening concerning the failure of the potato crop in various parts of Ireland. On that even ing he produced a letter from the Rev. Mr. Doggett (as we understood), which set forth that the potato crop had failed in many parts of Ireland. He (Mr. O'Connell) also stated that he had received a communication from Queen's County, with respect to which he was reported to have said " that he regretted the absence of the lion. Member for that County (Sir Charles Coote), than whom a better landlord did not exist, because he would hare been able to corroborate the information which he had received, that his tenants had lost half of their crop." lie stated this much because nothing could be more correct. He was then reported to have said that "whole families werecom pelled to subsist c n charity, for it was well known that an Irishman would share his laet potato wit's his unfortunate neighbours." He did made such a state ment but, it applied to other parts of Ireland. The Right Hon. Baronet to whom he referred took care that his tenants were not dependent upon charity for their existence.—(ilear, hear.) [The mistake arose from the low tone of voice in which the Hon. and Learned Member spoke on the evening in question. J Sir CHARLES COOTE thanked the Hon. Member for the correction. OFFICERS IN THE DUBLIN LAW COURTS. Mr. HUME moved for a return of the names and salaries of all persons holding offices in the law courts in Dublin, and of the names and salaries of those, if any, who discharged their duties by proxy.—Agreed to. EXPORTATION QF SALT. An Boat. MEMBER moved for a return of the quantity of British salt exported during the past year, with the ports from which the vessels sailed, which was agreed to. THE COMM ERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. Sir R. PEEL gave notice of his intention to-morrow evening to move for the production of various returns illustrative of the commercial policy of this country with Belgium, and of the effect of the reduction of the duty on flax ; also for various returns connected with the importation of British and foreign segars. MERCHANT SEAMEN'S BILL. Sir C. NAPIER wished to ask the Right Honourable Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade when he proposed to bring in the Merchant Seamen's Bill ? Sir G. CLERK was unable to give any definite or positive answer to the question of the Honourable and Gallant Member. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. Mr. O'CONNELL rose to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet opposite with respect to the state of the potato crop in Ireland and the consequent distress it had entailed upon the people of that country. Be fore, however, he put the question ho wished to say a few words upon the s Abject, and to assure the Right Honourable Baronet that the accounts he h a d re c e i ve d from Ireland were really frightful In the county which he represented the distress was very extensive, and he had accounts from men of e x p er i ence d eta ili ng the rapid progress and increase in the potato decay. He wished to impress on the Government the fact that this failure of the potato crop would have a fatal effect on the people of Ireland ; and also that the sums of money already voted by Parliament would not suffice to give relief tee the people of Ireland. He begged to be understood that he was not sueing, i n forma pauperig, for money from this country ; he concluded by asking the Right Hon. Baronet whether he was prepared to lay upon the table of the House a statement of further mea sures intended to be taken, in order to obviate the im pending famine in Ireland ? Sir R. PEEL was sorry that the statement read by the Hon. Member did not at all vary from the impres sion which had been made upon his mind with reference to the probable pressure that would be felt at a later period of the seaso n , an d t h e i nability of the inhabitants to provide themselves with other arti tidies of subsistence. He had reason to believe from the accounts recently receive-I, as well as from those which had been received in the months of October and Novem ber, that these melancholy facts would follow. The Hon. Member was aware that the first act of the Government had been directed towards providing subsistence for the people by the . best mean ; he alluded to employment. He considered that it would be far more satisfactory to the fe e lings of the people who were suffering under the scarcity to enable them by payment for their labour to pay for their food. He believed, in justice to wards the labouring classes, of those w h o were i n t h e greeeest destitution, that it would b e more agreea bl e to their feelings to give them an opportunity of earning their subsistence by labour than trusting to charity. The Hon. Member was aware that the first acts of' the Government, preliminary to that measure, whi c h w ill be brought under the discussion of the House this even ing, was to submit to Parliament three or four measures for the relief of Ireland. They had made advances in those measures towards erecting piers and harbours upon the south and west coast of Ireland, in order to enable the inhabitants, with more security, to carry on their fisheries.—( [fear.) They had also proposed to give to the grand juries of Ireland the power of raising money. The sum of 100,000/. had been advanced out of the public funds to encourage the grand jury to make presentments for public works. These measures involved an advance of public money, which he believed would facilitate the means of giving more employment to the people than was in general to be obtained. If, however, the measures proposed and the sums advanced by Government should not be sufficient for the purpose, while the Parliament was sitting there would be no difficulty in making fresh advances ; an even if the House should not be sitti ng , sooner than the p e ople o f Ireland should be in a starving condition, he should not hesitate to take upon himself the responsibility of making further advances to obviate the mischief. Nothing could be easier than obtaining renewed and enlarged powers. The Hon. and Learned Member, however, would agree with him, that it was not wise to be too liberal, because after all, the great assistance must be derived from local efforts. With regard to the introduction of Indian corn, he had every reason to know that it was used in United States very generally for the purposes of food, and it was admitted that it was a most palatable article. The Government had provided information as to the best mode of preserving it for use, and had adopted every measure in their power to avert the dreaded famine in Ireland. In the month of November last, on their own responsibility, they ordered a very large quantity of Indian corn, and it had since arrived, and every facility would be afforded for supply ing it to those districts where it would be required to avert the dangers likely to arise from a scarcity of food. He hoped the Honourable Gentleman would not require him to explain further at present, as it would not be prudent at the present ti me to enter into details. It would be most important, a n d he was sure it would be fully accorded, the concurrence of the landed proprietors, who should use their exertions to aid the Government in the carrying out of their intentions. He did assure the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) that every exer tion had been made, and every precaution taken, not last week, or the week after, but many months ago, to avert the threatened famine in Ireland. In reply to a question put by Sir R. H. INGLIS, Sir R. PEEL, who spoke with his back to the gal lery, and in a low tone, was understood to say that in the event of the present Corn Bill receiving the sanction of the Lords and Commons, the duties on corn which shall be received in the meantime should be repaid to the importers. Dr. BO WRING wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, whether any inquiries bad been made by the Government as to the late potato crops in such countries as usually imported that article of food to this country? Sit ROBERT rzEr., said that it had been found that there had been a great failure in the potato crop in Italy, Spain, Belgigip, Denmark, some parts of Prussia, Prince Edward's Island, Nova Scotia, .and other countries. No dependence could be placed on any importation, as the root was very likely to become diseased upon the voyage. Mr. M. GIBSON wished to know with reference to the articles of maize, rice. and Indian c )rn, whether the new duties should take effect after the passing of the measure. Sir R. PEEL said that as 'oon as the resolutions had passed he proposed to issue a Trearury order, permit dog the importation of those articles duty free. WINDOW TAX. Viscount DUNCAN intimated his intention of post poning his motion in refm.nce to the window-tax to Thutaday next. CORN DUTIES. Sir J. TYRRELL trnsted that the House would not be of opinion that he was unnecessarily detaining Hon. Members when he took the liberty of reading a letter which he held in his hand. He could assure the House that he did not wish to interpose delay to the business of the evening, and he felt certain he would be best con sulting the convenience of the House by proceeding at once to read the letter. But in the course of the other evening the worthy Alderman, the Member for Stoke, made a statement in the course of his speech, which WAS cheered most loudly by a Ministerial gentle man. He (the Hon. Baronet) had a letter in his hand which went to contradict that statement, and he trusted that the importance of the statement would cause the House to bear with him while ho read it. The letter was from an Essex farmer, and, as they were very often alluded to in the debate, he felt assured that their opinion would be of some consequence. The Hon. Baronet then read the letter, which said that a statement had been made by Alderman Copeland in that House to the effect that a farm of nine hundred acres was let to an Essex farmer at an increased rent of 2001. per annum, notwithstand ing the decrease which was likely to take place in the value of land by the introduction of the Goverment mea sure. The Hon. Member had not, however, stated the whole facts of the case, and he (the Essex farmer) hoped the House would be put into possession of the facts, as it would serve the cause of the farmers.— (Laughter.) The statement of the worthy Alderman had a tendency to damage the cause.--(Great laughter.) The farm had been taken from the company to which it belonged, at the increased rental, because they were determined not to take less.—(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.)" The company, however, had allowed the tenant greater privileges under the lease, and that more than counterbalanc d the increased rental. But, above all, a clause was inserted in the lease that in the event of agricultural protection being withdrawn, then the tenant might be at liberty to quit the farm, and in the event of its operation being to reduce the price of his produce, and should his landlord not agree to let it him on such terms as he might feel safe in continuing the occupation, he might be at liberty to leave it. Now he (Sir J. Tyrrell) regretted that the worthy Alderman was not in his place; for although the statement he had made was not exactly true, he must do the Worthy Alderman the justice to say that it had been very well invented, and it was like faces in some respects —to give them the slightest twist was to alter their expression. If the Hon. Member for Stockport had been in his place, he (Sir J. Tyrrell) would have alluded to another Essex farmer, respecting whom a statement had been made as unfounded as that of the Worthy Alderman. Mr. LIDDELL said it was not his intention to give the Right Hon. Raronet any trouble on the timber duties.—(Cheers.) He might state that when he moved that the petition should be printed with the votes, it was his bona fide intention to move that the House should express an opinion on the subject of the timber duties. He had thought it was his duty to do so, be cause he knew perfectly well what was then the feeling of the shipping interest upon this subject. But he was bound to say since that period so many petitions had been presented to that House in favour of the pro posed change, and having r ceived no petitions against it, that he now considered the shipping interest could not be opposed to that change. He wished to sat the Right Hon. Baronet right as far as he (Mr. Liddell) was con cerned, Sir R. PEEL—After the severe remarks which my Hon. Friend made on me for proposing the commutation of these duties ?—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Lord G. BENTINCE was understood to withdraw his opposition to the propositions of the Government, on the understanding that he should again bring them for ward in an advanced stage of the Bill. Mr. MILLS said, from what - had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), he understood him to say that he would take care to introduce some alteration in the resolutions before the House, in order to limit the importation of buck-wheat into this country. If he had understood him rightly, this would withdraw a vast deal of opposition on his side of the House. By introducing a few words stating that the importation of buck-wheat would not take place for three months, say the Ist of July, or some other time, the Upper House might take the whole business of the tariff irate consideration without any unnecessary delay ; which, according to his notion would not be the case, if the duty on that article was proposed to be remitted on the passing of the Bill. He hoped the Right Honourable Baronet would adopt his suggestion because he would per ceive from the disposition shown by the section of the House to which he (Mr. Mills) belonged, that it was not their intention to offer any obstruction to the importation of food into Ireland, for the re lief of the people of that country, free of all duty and that they, therefore wished to meet a tempo rary evil with a temporary remission of the protection duty on that commodity, instead of voting away nearly all the duties on articles imported into this country. Sir R. PEEL—I wish to explain what my proposition is. I propose that by law there should be a permanent reduction of the duty upon Indian maize and corn, and upon buck-wheat and rice ; that the duty shall be reduced to a mere nominal amount ; and that this shall be the permanent law of the land, and shall take effect so soon as this Bill shall have received the consent of the Legislature and the Royal assent. With respect to buck-wheat and Indian corn, I propose when the resolution respecting these articles shall have been reported, to issue a Treasury order, remitting the present legal amount of duty to a nominal rate ; such Treasury order not to have effect until the Bill shall have passed both Houses of Parliament and re ceived the royal assent. First, leaving the duty upon buck-wheat and upon maize to be removed by a Treasury order, in order to meet this emer gencies of the country, instead of leaving the mat er to a decision, by which great delay cannot fail to be occasioned ; but I cannot consent to alter the determi nation, by inserting the words suggested by the Hen. Member. I propose for the permanent law of the land that the duty upon Indian corn or maize should be re duced to a nominal duty, but that the immediate opera tion of the measure should be merely temporary. Mr. MILES said, from what had fallen from the Right lion. Baronet, he gathered that the remission was not, in fact, to be of a temporary character, and he wished, therefore, the agriculturist to understand well what they were about to do. They were going to take the duty off maize or Indian corn altogether. Now, the pro perties of Indian corn were little understood in this country. A bushel of maize or Indian corn was equal to a bushel and three-quarters of barley, and to three bushels of oats ; that was as nearly as pcssible the rela tive quantity of the three grains. There could be no doubt that ma'ee or Indian corn would be used in this country and Ireland, as largely as barley and oats were at present. They could compete with foreigners in the production of barley and oats, but in respect of Indian corn they could not. Mr. Col bett, some years ago, intro duced into this country Indian corn, but owing to the temperature which prevailed in this island,• it was impossible to bring it to maturity. Some years since he tried it in the West of England, and after having cultivated it in the best manner he could only succeeded in ripening it once in three years, so that in the case of this article it was impossible for England to compete with America. The whole of the west and southern states of that country are adapted to the growth of that article ; and if we look upon the quan tity of wheat consum e d in this country as compared with the United States, they would find that in this country the consumption was at the rate of one quarter per head, and in America only three-ancha-half bushels. What was the reason of that difference ? Doubtless because labour was better paid in this country. The Americans also prefer bread made from Indian corn to bread made from wheat. It appeared some what extraordinary on account of the mention m tde by him of the great quantity grown in America last year. He found that upon referring to his authority he had mistaken in ouo instance quarters fur bushels ; the quantity of wheat grown was 2,500,000 quarters. and of Indian corn 700,000,000 bushels, or about 87,000,000 quarters. When, therefore, he looked at the immense quantity grown iu that country, and also when he considered how much more easily it was culti vated than any other cereal corn, and after the great use in clearing land, he considered that they ought to reflect before they allowed such an article to be imported into this country. He was very anxious indeed to have heard something respect ing the dressing of this Indian corn, but he was not to be enlightened by the Government. He had him self received a letter from a gentleman, enclosing him a small package of Indian corn, and he states that the duty paid in America was only one per cent., and that the quantity he enclosed, when a quart of water was added to it, would be as much as four grown persons would eat at one meal. The Americans use sugar and sometimes molasses, and also salt in its preparation, and for an article which was used by them ill preference to wheat they only paid eight shillings a quarter. It made excellent, light, good bread, with the addition of a little Bri.ish flour. The article would not alone enter into use for the feeding of cattle, but would also be very ges s nerally used fot human consumption, and of course would throw out of the market a similar quantity of wheat ; and, as he had before said, it would have the effect of preventing the English farmer from competing with the foreigner. It was in vain to talk of stimulating the farmer with such facts before him. He thought it right to make this statement, in order to show that the introduction of Indian corn was not a matter of slight importance to the English farmer, whose interest would be seriously inter fered with. The Americans would have to pay only Is. per quarter, but if they had even to pay a higher duty, it would be impossible for the British farmer to enter into competition with them. Our markets would be inundated with that description of corn ; such immense quantities would be introduced into the English markets that the produce of the farmers of this country would be driven out, and the land would, of course, become seriously de teriorated. He, therefore, entered his protest against the present wea,eure, and he would sit dawn by thanking the Right Hon. Baronet for the details into which he had entered. Mr. CARDWELL was sure that nobody who had heard his Hon. Friend the Member fur Sotnersetshire (Mr. Miles), but most teel that he was perfectly sincere when ho declared, in the strongest and most emphatic laeguege, that he sympathised with the sufferings of the pal,le of that part of the United Kingdom, whose prin cipal food was the potato.—(Hear, hear.) Now, what was the position of the question? His Hon. Friend had read statements which were exceedingly exaggerated ; it was untrue that 87,000,030 quarters of corn could be produced in America. It was admitted that a very large portion of the people of Ireland depend upon the potato crop as their only means of sustentation; now, if they could by any proceeding of theirs produce a taste for a higher description of food among that people, and intro duce habits of industry which would be culculeted to make them able to live upon that food, they would be effecting one of the most practical measures of reform, of any age. feegislation would be able to assist them but !itde, but it often happened that an affliction of Providence produced the most beneficial effects. They should, therefore, take consolation that there would be such a result in Ireland, and that the famine would produce a demand for a higher kind of food,—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had introduced into the House some specimens of the potteo, grown by a Mr. Chapman, which were of an exceedingly healthy nature, though they were slips taken from unhealthy plants. He (the Hon, Member) had made personal inquiries ; all of which confirmed the accounts received by other Hon. Gentlemen and laid be fore that House ; and he therefore believed that the in terposition of Government at the present moment was opportune. He also believed that, before the lapse of many years, the potato would recede from the position it held at present as an article of staple food, to its ordinary level as a vegetable, which he believed would be a great blessing to the people of Ireland.--(flea,r.) After a few words from Mr. NE\VDEGATE, which did not reach the gallery, Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said, there were more reasons than one why it was absolutely necessa, y that more than a temporary aftlicion should be pro vided against. In the first place, to his knowledge, during the last ten or twelve years, there had been disease in the potato crop in various forms. In the year before the last, the disease appeared in the corn ; but as regarded the potato crop, he had (very reas( a to fear that it wou:d not be removed speedily.—(!fear, hear.) From these and other reasons, he was inclined to think that, if possible, other measures should to ad , p ed for the benefit of the people of that country. He thought that the greatest blessing to Ireland would b, to lead the people of that country not to depend at.ne upon the potato for food. It would, indeed, be a great blessing to Ireland if they could get cheap food.— (Hear.) The people of this country wondered how those in Ireland lived at all. To entede the Irish people to live they must be famished with plenty of employment. lie should be glad to find the one shit ling duty taken off the Indian corn.—(Hear, hear.) Let the House imagine how a man and his wife and five children were to provide food, when for that fsmi!y it required five bushels of potatoes at three pet ce stone. Mr. HUME hoped that Indian corn would b brought into competition with wheat, as it would elatle tf- e people to obtain good and wholesome food, when what could not be obtained. He, therefore, hoped that the shilling duty even would be abolished. Wow I SIBTIIORP wished to know if he had under stood the Hon. Member for Rochdale rightly, in saying that the wages of the Irish labourer were as low as 2s. 4d. per week It that were the case, all he could say was, the Lord have mercy upon them. He had no hesitation in saying that they were an excellent people. He knc w a good deal about them. He had been exposed in I-eland, and yet he had never witnessed in the lower orders of the Irish anything but kindheartedness and civility. He did not wonder at their being discontented, if their wages were only 2s. 41 per week. He was convinced more than ever that the proposed measure was mere trash, and utterly worthless. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD observed that for his part he would very gladly see the duty of , one shil ling per quarter removed. The Earl of MARCH said that the lion. Member had stated that considerable disease existed in the pota to crop of Scotland, and that there was every proba bility of the disease becoming as extensive as it was in the United States. He (Lord March) felt bound to say that he had received letters only that morning from persons residing in Morayshire and Ayrshire, which stated that the disease did not exist in those counties, and that there was every prospect of a good and plen tiful crop. Sir ARTHUR BROOKE observed that the general rate of wages in the north of Ireland averaged from 101 t ) Is. and sometimes to la. Bd. per day. A considerable number of the landed proprietors, with incomes from 8,0001. to 9,0001. a-year, furnished employment to 100 or 150 labourers throughout the year. If the same :mount of wages was paid in Ireland as in England, half the labourers would be thrown cut of employ during a portion of the year. He was bound to thank her Majesty's Ministers, and others, for the great anxiety which they had manifested to guard against the threatened famine in Ireland ; but, at the same time, lie thought that unless measures were taken to introduce constant employment among the labouring classes, they would not be much benefited by the bringing in of cheap food. He (Sir A. Brooke) had seen, during several years, the usual food of the Irish people sold as low as 10s. per quarter, during which period never had there been known so much starvation and di:tress in the country. And why ? Because the farmers, who held small farms, averaging from 20 to 30 acres, finding that the price of their produce was reduced in the market, were compelled to diminish the number of their la bourers. He did hope that her Majesty's Governmen! would take into consideration the means of devising a plan by which constant employment might be secured to the labourer. As to railroads, he considered that they would be productive of great misfortunes, and more evil- to Ireland than any other evil which he could conceive. The present condition of Ireland was not adapted ti maintain the number of railroads that were intended ti be constructed and carried on. The traffic in the coup try was comparatively small. The duty of furnishing employment to the labourer rested first of all with th landed proprietors of Ireland. They should put thei, shoulders to the wheel aid use their most energetic endeavours to supply food and employment fur the wretched and unfortunate people. The resident landlords would be willing, he was sure, when the ext gency should arrive, to provide for the poor on their own estates. The landlords were dividable into three classes. There were the absentees, the middlemen, and, lastly, th squireen. If the Government want to sea Ireland pros perous and happy, they must deal first of all with these three classes. The only way in which he could sugge that these three classes should be dealt with, was t. place them in the power of the poor-law guardians, who, when cases of distress and famine happened in their dis tricts, should possess authority to levy extra poor rates. to be paid by the landlords, the absentees, and middle men. When he made use of the term absentees, he dici not wish to include all who did not reside on their estates. There were several noble exceptions, in such men as the Earl Fitzwiliiarn, the Duke of Devonshire, and others, who. although not living in Ireland, mani fested the greatest care to see that the comforts of their tenants were properly attended to. lle(Sir A. Brooke) however, knew of some proprietors who had never seen their tenants, and who had not visited their estates for a period of 30 years, and the consequence was, that the resident landlord was obliged to provide for the people in times of difficulty and distress. Without employ m not, it was his firm conviction that it would be useless to introduce cheap food into the country. Mr. POULETT SCROPE thought that the poor of Ireland should have the right of relief from the district to which they were attached. It had been mentioned that there was at present an abundance of food in Ireland. but it shou7d be borne in mind, that that food we; rapidly being carried out of the country. It would be very desirable that an additional supply should be ob tained from America ; he considered, however, that the resources of Ireland should be allowed to be fully de veloped and exhausted before they applied to the gene rosity of England, or had recourse to the superabund ance of America. lie trusted that the wants of the people of Ireland should be supplied from the resources of the district where the distress should exist, and he hoped that her Majesty's Government would keep that consideration in mind in dealing with the question. He thought that the bounty of England might be repaid in some shape by the levying of district taxes. Mr. ESCO r I' thought it was extremely desirable that the price of food should be reduced to so low an amount as was possible. They had heard that wages were so small that it was impossible for the hest-disposed land lord to pay his labourers more than five shillings a week—this was additional reason why the price of food should be reduced. Some inquiries had been made at an early period of the evening for information respecting the Indian corn, which it had been proposed to bring in. Her Majesty's Government had introduced a measure to let in this Indian corn, of which there was a large supply. The lion. Member for Somersetshire had supplied him ( Mr. Escott) with all necessary statements as to the Indian corn. He had proved that it start an excellent article of food. The only difference between them was that the Hon. Member thought that Indian corn, being an excel lent article of food, ought to be kept out of the country, while be (Mr. Escott) was of opinion that Indian corn, being an excellent article of food, ought to be let into the country.—(Hear, and cheers.) A circumstance had occurred some time back, the par ticulars of which came under his own personal know ledge, and which he would state to the House. A large quantity of Indian corn had been brought into port in this country, but owing to the severity of the duty, it was prevented from being landed. The consequence was that the whole of the corn was transhipped, taken to Hollandeand used in feeding Duch cattle instead of our own. He would ask, what is the state of the agri cultural labourer at this moment with respect to the only supply of animal food, which he ever, by any chance partakes of, viz., bacon and pork ? Why, in nine cases out of ten, where the agricultural labourer Is respectable enough to keep a pig, one half of it is pawned before the pig is killed, in order to supply the labourer and his family with ceramon necessaries. Now, what a blessing it would be if every agricultural labourer could keep for himself a fat pig, or even two. He (Mr. Escott) knew of nothing that would tend more to exalt the condition of the lebouring poor than a plentiful supply of food. He believed that the extension of trade and commerce would raise the market for agricultural produce to an extent that would amply repay any imaginary reduction in the price of grain. What was it that had, during the pre sent year, given an impulse to agriculture, and partially raised the condition of the agricultural labourer ? It could be ascribed to no other cause than the increase of employment, which had taken place in consequence of the small relaxation in productive duties, which had taken place a few years ago. It was this relaxation which had given a degree of prosperity to the agricul tural interest which it had never previously experienced. , Mr. 114111IIS WM of opinion that the GovenigeDt should take some measures to prevent the e xportati d e ,ne of potatoes f or suc h a per i o d as m i g h t seem pro per. , was aware of so me exper i m e nts w hi c h b a d been ink by a gardener, the result of which was that the you n g; f potatoes p ro d uce d from good seed gave indications of the rot. With respect to the famine in Ireland, the sitin , doubt seem e d t o prevail on the other side of the lione e t as to its ex t en t. t i e had no hesitation i n affirming th e ,. it was as great as the Ho n . B arone t h a d pictured to lew House, and be therefore gave the Government greet credit for their introduction of there measures. tee Mr. P. HOWARD cons id ere d t h at t h e Legisis"" , should b e muc h i n d e b ted to the Mem b er f or Wintus' e ; ter, for having directed attention t ) the advsnter" which w ou ld b e con f erred upon the popu l a tion of t oi l° country by the introduction of Indian corn. He le o that Fath er M at h ew had also aroved of it as a n to . de of food f or th e people of Ireland. It was very ° Tee sively used in Italy, and especially in TUSCSDY. 0 , peasantry of which were the best fed and most ° to , fortably olothed in Europe, as to the palatable lit er of the food, very much would depend upon the Oaf & or ts preparation for ore ;it would require an d bolus leaveee Indian corn next to wheat:, .Ed he begged to differ with the First Lord 01 0. Treasury, who termed cats as a nobler kind of gq c i e a Mr. FIT; GERALD begged to state that the de ...0 payment of the labourer in Ireland did not arise fr°, ll. ooo twhaenrt.notnf ogeoroodfwpoiollp?enotuhteopraertntplfo'ytimieenita.ndHlorede,e3bnus!,looo.o:t that railways in Ireland would be of vast an, i e felt permanent advantage in removing this evi]; an" 001 fat no doubt that the country would be most gr ate , side , any benefits bestowed up •n them. He did not e V e eing that it wool I be fair that %le whole burden of r e 'i s od' the poor of their districts should be cast upon the ste t lords of th e a h 'entee estates—as it ba d b e en eugg e g eef by an Hon. Member —bat be did consider thatod to ought to be merle to pay th e ir just proP' l.ll°l/ ' a rose° felt that this visitation of Providence would be the of restoring the Irish people to their proper Mr. P. S. BUTLER said that there were veri f oo laboerers in the south of Ireland who got less than l i tt le ss. to 6s. per week, and in the summer time : ed bis more. Whenever, however. the labourer otP en w hose means he fell into the hands of country usurers, tootsge terms he was obliged to accede. One great 0, 1 8 , 0 0 which vt oald at i , -e from the present reduction in t`, l _ et ; 0 0 of grain w• ‘lll I be that the labourer would be taken of the hands of those extortioners. Under these cl o d 0 stances he never had :'seater pleasure than be supporting the Right Hon. Baronet's measure. . Of Mr. J. A. REID hoped the House would b a r in gketo, measure to a close as speedily as possible. "'l e a den, that ere long Hen. Members who had hitherto °!"' bi; the alerati , n would see that th"ir oppoition ° e el,'" been unnt ce,sary. and would find that the gre n. positie feo vantages would he eenferie d by it on t',e countrPrefe Mr. LABOUCHERE was of opinion t hat wit h iro issi to the introd uc ti on o f I n di an corn into &ie. it would afford considerable assistance to the P oo tbe that country, living as they were at pr se nt e i e pbf: potato. It would greatly raise and improve t h fio s 0' :deal condition. If they could obtain a better bt 0 ,14 cheaper rate then they now had, he bad no t d i ni/ eo tbe ff f would adopt it. The use of Indian corn w0 111 ° : "00, 1 , 0 the effect of throwing wheat out of use, for i n : 0 11 0 ' the United States which he had visited such a 7141 not .ollow. With respec to the importation .. . 0 ° 0 0 d corn by the Government for the use of the rd e et d r Ireland, he thought it should be carried into - o .o o ' soon as possible. Had Government purchased c°o in time ago, they would not now be put to such ell, hoc procuring a supply of Indian corn. He tre ats ' GI; ever, that an impression would not go abroad o f in t . vernment might be always looked up to in case u e l d,io ll l emergency ; for Burke, with whom he agreed of eP :el " Thotiehts en Scarcitv,” pointed out the evi l A dul t 03 '0 dependence. He hoped that no unnecessary oe' e e e s el l . take place in passing these resolutions, and „ b OO 0100 hold himnelf inexcusable for detaining the 0° "; of Tie subject, believing, as he did, that a prolonga" to t ie agitation would cause the greatest iikiu r i e 0 0 monetary, manufacturing a n d agr i cu ltural c lll 0306 0 was very glad to s ee th a t th e G overn ment id o pr the bold course they had done, and he w° ll ' them in carrying it out. eo rti' After a few words from Mr. FINCH . , i po l e Lord G. BENTINCK gave a detail of sever s w dy , ' is o ments which had been made by Mr. Reese, of.. r b l iell 4 e and others, upon decayed potatoes, one o d ,f u w.. g or e ; very successful in producing vegetation. 1 " - e,lt Ole ment was made with magnesia mixed with (1 11 ,„ 1- 00 amd he mentioned the circumstance that i 6 '- generally known throughout the country. rse ji The resolutions were then agreed to, the ter it ordered to be brought up, and Bills founded 11P troduced. The House then went into Committee upon t he A CUSTOMS (TARIFF). e 1(1 °i f el Sir R. PEEL, in answer t o L or d G. Bent s b e ' , that with respect to b ran d y an d s ilk, i t would le eil., 11! • to have the discus s i on on th e reso l ut i ons . Lord G. BENTINCK sa id, th a t a g reat g e§ ll ; tlemen were then out of t own , w h o we re reel .1 1 port the amend men t s . . 0 obe y Mr. MILES thought it b e tt er th e discuSe le r e e take place on th e re p or t. ere b eioi Sir R. PEEL tho ug ht it wou ld b e f o und In g er ficial to take th e di scuss i on on t h at even ing', e ll 01 a few of the main articles till Monday nex t a e g it ° of Lord JOHN RUSSELL was o f op i n ion tu og s o e"o be more advisable for the debate to take plan; be 011 possible, and th a t it wou ld b e b etter it should 0 0 vote of supply. taltepit) , Sir R. PEEL—Th e di scuss i on cou ld v - , 4 e rtajoo that night, as f ar as th e supp l y was conc erne d ' regard to other a r ti c l es th e di scuss i on could - en Friday next. e at of ills 0 1 . 0 Mr. AGLIONBY f eare d t h at t h e arrangeungioo,l) Hon. Member would interfere with the,rnio' Noble Friend of hi s , w h o b a d a mot i on for x'' ,r - eceect to the inventio n by C ap t. W er ner. is th e r e Sir R. PEEL co u ld see no i nconve nience a o t o rangemeut. He had effered his Noble Dieerjo he Ince all the corre s p on d ence t h at h a d t a ken PLI I " Or )apt. Warner and himself, and therefore 0 ° 0 0 .ould take place on the subjeet. 0 11°0 1 , Mr. EWART s aid h e h a d to move the - t ei g f O , 0 "reign ho , ks sh ou ld ceas e. H e thought th ro e 0410 •lee!ical books ought to he admitted at the se t, 00 aegn p a p er , nam ,l y , 1 4s , t h e hun d re d weloisoo duty hefor. 1821 was 4L the hundred weigh (0110 low on some b ioks red uce d t o 21. 10 e ., an; i n the thl i , mounted to 51. There were b o' s s printed ' - g hi OP Tang 'age. which ought no t t o b e kept o' oo oel o , o o duty. This was a grea t commerc i a l grin : 5 11 ,40 4 early booksellers complained of it t ie. y ke ...° amounting to a prohibit on of such wt. P eel " 0' rom that, he (Mr. Ewart) viewed tu l e - r etna`l mailing a great commercial evil. He was s " fri` - dtie 1 tbe people of this country were pleased at , wee r :all communication a hich at -resent existed ut os ec d ,eo and foreign countries, and it ought not to be ' ffeleo duty upon the literature of the Continent. 0 0 0 0 few days ago the works of Sch'ller sold fort sy ou la boo o j shillings, which, had there been no dutY,, bo el 000 P been purchased for seventeen shillings. ' o e gad, c e et te ° or;nted in Germany were much cheaper , ba n tbe` V be produced in this country, and such of til e— D eice: d e to England would be charged an immens e 'lO6 - 0' eas now speaking of books in the Gertna n 1 /0 14 , 0 c 0 Books ther e o f th e classics, Greek and Latitl'oll ' 0 exceedingly cheap ; f or i ns t ance Euripides, tojelve works as that, were sold to th e es. etlf . 2s. 3d. in G ermany , an d re t a il e d a t cove', 0 he should like t o k now w hy O x f or d and h ts °Abe t should not enjoy th e same a d van t ag es in t etbn'ote the German Colleges. The re cou ld be no do n to or e gbe Derdrof's Germ an Editi on o f th e G re ek Gr n ba t fu'os: the very best that could be used at scho ols .'4 e d e t glile use of the country, it was obli ge d t o be reP r- f e ri g ! fi cri: ford. On those grounds he w ou ld conten d h i s col'ioP the duty upon foreign books, imported into t 03 e t ; oo li was enormous and disproportionod, and be W og ton e t hi e to know why it should be so, or why bie Ip a e nsil. a e i r * be opposed. He would n ow conc l u de by cc di d g , nal; proposition into these few and simple W °r o ge, tacit , that foreign books, printed in a foreign la°§oglllll OP, a foreign country, should be a d m itted into , st i t ioo , • free, because they could not come into coraP' In to English books, nor would English books 01 1ie Ite petition with them. old 1 4 1 e0 1 ' Sir GEORGE CLERK said, that there C oo. re' doubt but that it would be desirable that WI; 0 0 ;0 bees motion should be carried. The w a l l ° 0 0 f° ;0 ceived by Government i n th e s h a pe of du e ,J a nd l l . ' ta e' books did not amount to m o re than 10,0001 t Bo O to it, sum was so trifling it could scarcely be fe dea it Opter while at the same time he was ready to , 0 0 1 0 00 would be very desirable that the country el lge ies 're; change its literature with that of other O n la ! seo ebon eon liberal terms. But at the same time it - „ o ks e ,r, e oCe' membered that it would be only fair tha t " - e in . .. 0 - 0 in in this country should be guarded from Pirs e ,f re tect l eo d 0 and that French works should have a liket i iheq ie r b 0 0 ( this country. The Right Hon. Baron se et I°f clause (fee • clause from the 7th and Bth Victoria, caP• A t he e r 0 In called the International Copyright Act, 11 . 11 . 7, o utb% 00 which was to protect the works of Ene. l 7 ben eve n ei gion . the manner he had above described. 11 , e ,„ (1 13 per' to to say, that at present the amount of du t y upon o e. l was not more than equal to the excise dllty wh i e h io t.o There was now pending an arran g enient le u e Y ad lniW fo u re he published in Prussia and France would and there press big this country upon very liberal terms, to pre would suggest to the Hon. Member, not,„. t. a. g ee motion until the arrangement came into e c n';;; o wha,' oo ee Mr. FORSTER said he could not cor! !`„ re sen_l be err question of copyright had to do with tn e v et r , od 1 0 0 There was no German press in the count_.7. sag lee_. o ‘e fore he could not conceive why the Ge!ln l e i h u e i r laOr England should be deprived of books la 1, e ell t a' at by keeping up the hieh price. could 110 a Mr. CHARLES BULLER said he s i coPi 0 0 It was quite fair that as the French t-s°,`__o2 pica:/the conceive why w m h ix y ed th it e p question of oo f ne in n t o e „.( rn b : e t_ f l o o_ r n eerntro be eo l 4 ..t o r iti hibited the works of English authors an ger 4 l, France, that England should protect i 1 01 ,„$ be s e u e d. works of French authors in this countraasefe"of tla I _`.4 ceived that had nothing to do with the quf . tw c ia olv ery T o mission of foreign books printed in a forpe y f r ee' i o should o s r s e y i gn that the o n for a e d i n gt te b °°d o ks o : c e ° o l3l deli s ti lil l thus the poorer classes of foreigners s t in t li d o s ua country was an exceedingly e u thei r on . hea re VY Sidee i l I.4l s ttid iel. were deprived of the means of carrying riote d .16.00 e mense number of books ; which it wouldat a WI Many of the small states of GermanYp bo yerf ro u go of the able to have admitted into this country duty. ot see, he Mr. DISRAELI said, he could 11 _ a we t o Ur re" he ing the discussion. He would like s o .e _ . _ 0 .en,. question of copyright should have tbeeknnno: wbetberutie; tax derived from this source was dt t Y he su ep o i st o r and if an inquiry were to be made into the Government in continuing it? eh li arged u pon Y';', 4 6. t her the fact that a similar duty w_ G a e s rmany ; but h° op P' books going to France and _ e d. )3as would ask was it thought that the_reeswualtswnooutlo_,v;/,_o_ei olio thought there was AQ each dtitY Illniv THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING. MARril 10, 1846.