The Sun. — London, England, 1846-02-24 00:00:00

' bas .e had been a ❑d their pre to that the measure if the coon• tit. THE SUN LONDON., TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY Q 4, 1446 . . --,.....-.-.......-.w.k.:,- ..,... L. , -.4..4",,,,......,•,,,,....... 0..... a.PrOPer distinction between persons convicted and not con :eted ; for a l unatic might take away life--he might commit se murders, be imm ediatel y conv i cted; eral murders, or ot h er crimes of less magnitude, for which he where but it would be ex t rem ely hard, tin combination s , and no crimes like those pointed at in the 17existed, that the Lord Lieutenant should order a 0 44 es in the shape of compensation, to the rela tions of the sse sil it... Considere d that if the inhabitants rose up and arrested the b °, ho committed a crime, they ought not to be punished 7 tne infliction of penalties for such crimes: I ce w. worthy _efricnnethveedirthatdships' observation, th at in courts of e us it had been many of thole crimes were committed by strangers ~___ trother counties, and he (Lord Clanricarde) thought :7 here it could be proved that the perpetrators of crime o nf int:o ht to justice no penalty. ought to be imposed. therspoint also, which was, that he thought that t„,lsosv.ir oftranssi , rtation for life should not be given by the the signature of the - Lord Lieutenant being obtained. With respect to the change 0 p ee rs tll.iruree v r o e w u bw i s t r i :: e.._, e mu', he thought it was very often a &sad /7;11e for a man to be tried in another county. It o t " was a bad character and was .sonvicted, he thought portant that that conviction should take place in the county . where th I re - .e e act was committed. There ought to be, also, ir um e ' ece to the gentlemen of the county, to take the te r , stances into consideration. But these were mat• eotlormore detail. He rose to say he was more and more he had d that such a measure was necessary; from w hat ditty, b he ard, the Government were tardy in doing their the tit he would give them his cordial support. di sPoese e tad of WICKLOW said he was not in the least ' th en ht g. e iiR -' t° iv any opposition to the Bill, because resp eet g it an exceedingly useful measure. With 'Peso t ° the - observations of his Noble Friend re of w i n i g the permanency of the Bill, he (the Eerl hen ' ''' k ei) begged leave to observe that, as the Par- P et Met Meat, or every year, it was in the power of the Govern. alease i . any individual Member, to move the repeal of the Dity 0 : a ny' desirable. He would take that opportu ,°,klects ,g is ,ing his opinion that there are two great ' 4 it ,‘,":' Be attained for the prevention of crime in was wS7:lltry, and it appeared to him that the Bill was framed for the purpose. There was another for . the e lls N e m f bringing to justice the perpetrators o crim . 'lleri °_,and Learned Friend alluded to that subject. He (Lord the detZe) considered that it was quite as necessar to secure Apeo,:eslisf;tihio: and conviction of criminals as it was to p r event _ t h e 'etails 'l,°°°lcrime. Their Lordships saw the result of thiein the Pea sed ‘s"ivb had been read to them, from which it ap it was impossible to find witnesses to tildis whi t d, or jurors to convict. In other coercion uougit-t'ltirh had been enacted, and in the last on e, t i e ectirc th e n 11 . Lord Grey, there was . a provision that t h, t _ eonviction of criminale. He did trust, therefor e_ tl i , pre; kiovertiment would introduce clauses to this effect into ivet, t e i nt i iill, or would bring in a Bill specially on the su t'isbiseii„oe ',feed riot at this stage of the proceedings make a n y . '" c se fe - t° , t he Bill, but would content himself at present with ,Thee 4 ',serrations. 6 il o f 1 „ CLAW', ARTY did not wish the discussion to 5 ,, f n tiv ‘ing ,.';' to a dote without ' making a few observations ts -. .. the n A - ,:, t,he rovisions of the Act. In the first clause . 17. 41 Pt to' It Was stated, that . - when . murder or an at s.'" Li e murder was committed in any district, a the s' o 'tio tai etenant would have the power of sending doen an . - 's did iiburnber of constables and magistrates to that lecaley. 'tii ß l t t hink that this was the most effectual mode of '''' t. ''' c ase for local knowledge was an object of greater Thai (N esse . , hoe' un 'r ' than numbers of policemen and magistrates. deti t° ess the stipendiary magistrates were to be a perpetual ' '' 3 ie s t he country (which God forbid), the Noble Lo . r se4,l" er e-id not: be obtained by them. The local magis ste :f t) -,*(' seel a greater interest in the preservation of the I ts is tan s , t9't district. They would, and could, give moreas h f ilsth: ° such cases as these, and it would . be more li ke) tautest t h e the ends of ' justice. The police magistra te e;est i , c ,_ same focal knowledge, nor does he feel the same 4 4 741 1 4 'fle well being of the district. .If the pol ice courts s li aise' sf eer e Pieced in more immediate relation with the m ss l tsati l e ,a,tes, no person would have more ready access to „ r a r d '. .; "'an they would; to none would information be t‘ficdrediteedt'Y Conveyed, provided he were looked upon as a.n l e net m e c cer for maintainingthe peace of the country. He D ;: the an that sort of information held in such abhorrence i,'Pele e r l ' e , ° Pie of Ireland—information made for the .:,;iieerr;dotairee-,g the rewards offered by Government, hut k ,„ to land) to that information which a poor man may make seme , f 4 ' f‘ sst, rord , who, as a magistrate, might turn it t ,'lat e ' 4. the prevention of crime ; which he (the . Ear . l ' lL' ln e° the Y) maintained,' would be much bette r than vindi e,' did Justice of the law after the comm i ss ion of crime. l i j'tdi erv tl t wish to cast any imputation upon the le 44 to '',l. rosisistrates ; but could their upo n the 5, ' l ts Yf1g1.55 ' but could their Lo rdshi s ~ tre,, "lat large catalogue of crime!, those unclaimed op ie' h lise le!I those offences which had h itherto gone tn ,''stlis ' without coming to the conclusion that, notwith- J Este g th e ii, th - , eri , ,, great increase in the . administration of Iss 'uht had, nevertheless considerably _ incr . eased. 4 - 'tie t , , a reference to these circumstances might raise the LINN to "ether a paid or unpaid magistracy were the proper ti,rrier tim e v entrusted with authority in Ireland. .Again, in la* T there had been causes for dissatisfac )l's hai l e were thegrievances of the penal statute. e , i ' r t ed re to n how ever, all g been removed. Again there e h ! ef e„en.g!'r exclusive privileges. They had had aevente s e n n . e o !'s, triliatory measures, they gas had . C . athoi h lc d em beee I) 4 ;Se,' , t .,7 R.eform Bill, Protestant . sociations . a _ _ kh oe fu he tithe had been comparatively extinguished, the 1 0 ,%19 ; ds . , had been withdrawn from the Protestant 15;4 a n d Placed at the disposal of a board which S t i b 'el f, te the Roman Catholic than to the re ofs,h'ee -lt " He might add that the Church of Rome shoesisy er , ' inctioned in Ireland, and last, not least, the college k I a t le h ad been endowed. He thought that these A t c t t e s lf,'Pere te l .. ast a disposition on the part of . th e Governmen t Of ti l i ii ihed ;' the establishment of peace i n I I t ot , tk e Act 0 call the attents in of the House to the provisions sf ~,- " e e ' He thought that the clauses which provided es,j, 4 0 - „ rc ilies of persons murdered In the present . state 11 "eisl:, 4i trY should be recast. An alteration in this e e h,_ would add t the utility of the measure. t est k eot that their L or ds ) i s should previde some enact li, r stes - i,'!hieh the poor should be compelled to resort, instead rsNid' in g as mendicants upon the face of the country; and j; re th saY that it their Lordships did that, they would do much I,:lssd . an this Bill could do for the peace of the people of st. : e ls _lrk! the prenerate been applied to that yurpose— st,ser, m ass of the poor Of that country been relieved, th e 11; 144;(1!stitution which at present was so fearfully Th s pe ople to so great a measure tend ed . to demoralise lei / w ere '• w ould have been considerably lessened. . s i it. 4 l mpoverished and forced to associate with de tereese :Vert and thus were brought about those IV' tft',4sod'shed the details of which had been laid 1 4 ' n. sir Lordsh ' ips. Under other circumstances le o s•nrder s Lb, g is would not have been committed. But and eoesttse a number of destitute persons peTvaile .. cl k i l ed 'Y, without any stake or interest in it, sj ti at stu bl medicant life, they need not be sore sti:4l as Z. a state of things as had been detailed to them. tse e v Would ;retell and wretchedness prevailed in Ireland so s t ,"'nse, a sise Peace of the country be destroyed, despite such hsT e viiise -s e 9se present. He could not sit down without th i s asis olsi Ta very deep regret that the case of he el le gal be year after year draeged . _ before ps ui %ju n '''. which was calculated to give such ite r h ...: . . imPression of the character of its ,reilio n . 44 Irishman he felt indignant, because the theglishme that was thus created in the minds of tie are } was very t ouch the reverse of what la id is L ori Y. deserved. They were not such as s . ;, hete s ; ' t i ,"Ps Might infer from - the details which had been k„,, 4 111,,,,,ir1,!r• The Government ought to bring f o r ward 4 i ‘ le o' i . . as were calculated to make the people com fortabl e o L a , leo, and they might then expect the country . t Via `'" P e te•eabl .- would effect its s , , e e lose e eonditition, Such measures . sse, so more than any coercive measure which they could 4 4 nel ci te , tif c 4 fr "PBELL thought that the observations which had r , te e cl es the Noble Lord who had just sat down were worthy „ssr ..,_gstratest consideration. He wished to make a 'toi s t e ves eations ors what had fallen from his etild and Learned Friend (Lord Brougham). He t, tiot presum N P l 2 ti hi s _to offer any obstruction to the Bill, but e h le and Lesarrsl Itiitsttapnlaeteefdremb p i' against a doctrine propounded by Ins t iet rioe, that in the % le e n& He must protest against the y th et hpilsaceliCisil:tech , e of things : I ti r lo bo of such cases as was con fe , partie s should be tried at a dienn which .1, de. That there might bea NI pity, and witnesses declined thsite would not tir,4;:eourse was not to be would be necessary to do in vshi h juries would not do tk giving they evi "qtrii;:t it . t . s eess But he bad no axetraordinary • * e ' 'd nce. But elless in un sa er n e g, yi that such a 4 01 It was made a standing law, dimon it y would be an invasion of t4Oisliggathkand privileges of the people. He defended that &Nit k_ ue common law of England that the accused part lee tried in the neighbourhood of the place where th e . n'kit f,P4 committed. The advantage to the individual h had et ts Ted in the neighbourhood of the place was, that he hisd qt„°_PPortunity of establishing his innpcence d. amon g tant place. , ": 11 , who knew his character, than in a Zn t id 1 1 : 1 ise was dragged to a distant part , . the i difficulty a% the t ' ) ' Produce his witnesses. It might be ~„ ~_ ern„ Government should be compelled to pay "` Z t y ess e e f s (17.1ese witnesses. But it would be e t ,. ee ls take witnesses from their employment impossi t b o le di i s n . ~, 41 Pat, t ' and then the accused would suffer from want of 0,,, , S evidence. Beside 3, the trial and conviction of a t ,, i eld ha ' 7 t e n the nig,liboullo o d where the offence was committed t;, c te te,. t. a greater effect than it could have in a distant part, tri: i N rael ;alte had never been heard of. If the Executive orbi t in 1 ,,,,. k 1,waYs had the power of selecting the place 0 teie`!„asy ' ` lt ival cases, they might commit the most 4 Nered "Ps,----(llear, hear: ) A man who vv,4llld . be , Vy ho Innoeent in his own neighbourhood, and might iii ' , lt toitit " 8 , co mmitted no o f f ense must be carried to i r . t . ' l4l t.ii a r e -r ‘ ef the country, where Prejudices existed against 11,' I vil of , s-nts, political or religious and he reight be unjustly con te,s Noble" eenisliett for an offence he had never committed. 1: 4 *a, th and Learned Friend had 'stated, that practically I,, t gked „! 1 .0 , of England, but it was not so. The law of 1 ,,, , t 4 t y xis:rereled that the trial should take place only in the i, 'se tee the offence was committed, subject only to the emPttree,e c.,brrovisioo, that upon cause being made out, the e s , l. , th, 7 !-' t of Queen's Bench might change the venue, an _ ee l ° he had . 41 to take place in the county where a fair trial e,,, , ery, v The criminal law of Scotland, he regretted . to say, l':s,; el th e ,. 47'1Urable to the criminal. The civil law, how• l',;:suil 1-1'„".-'°untry was the be st ' in existence, and the law of le; s it• 1 , - " often borrowed i t ': 4 '. th 4 “ t the eritni aia w nl o a f n Scotlan . d . was arbitrary and kh ''' C l %I A -.` extreme • n i, it, i'Pe se d • The Court of Justiciary . in Scotland, * t ''s te "old do what the leased with crminat , 4 4° the T he regretted that they d y id p not always acts.accord ,.4l%sett‘%ll,sjitte:elistottfepru.dence or justice . ' fill lately, in Scot t: h % ti ' l lOO4 1 et the jury, he too the panel, and named e po le c o se upon the jury ; and within the last six ee to.it e er to tr urt of Justiciary in Scotland declared . that think tinge' „'Y to exile eats any new offence which they might . L '' lee. or policy, or justice. There was a differ itiai e s„:r .vsith r ' egard le ' the punishment which ought i t ,' , laid, sh lur the offences which had been referred to. s''"nee t. s i ,Th en lif' but t li gtl it was agreed' that the 11 , 1 Q 111 4 At i ,', l : , ' i titi ' Z i t i o d t b li v o ' ' t a 7 t ri e s r t , i o , l• , t e atiU l i iiot s l l i s e or h il Cockburn was the hoped that the prac te,,,t.it forl'!eseeileil in Sc Aland would not be a conclusive ar b. had miltdeadoption in Ireland. —( Hear.) If the G.overu lireeowee, th out a strone. case for giving them this arbi i''Ule e n ded th e n' might lave been entitled to it. But he " 4, 41 swer 11 1. ths measure introduced by the Governmen t •[„, d _e e b ;e _ ., the purposes required. He strongly concurred :t.,,t5:, ag:ii,',Liwris which had fallen from many Noble 4, th lt q uf ; eotlnuing the measure for an indefinite ~.s „ ,‘ ri,4 at th:estilt.to pesiod.—( Hear. ) If the state of the 'ul cult 1° a si t Pu'ation of the law sought to be established t _ 4 l ‘ .. or. ,e . i si eo_nsetate te allow its abolition, there could be no t ' '• g l il teg% H il ig it. I - t h e t i p : o e f er s 4 ;o . ;a A M wished to say a few words in explana seikw . .arliy e . (ieV¶T said the law of England . was similar t k tl 'illa t , ii ' dow n i ° with respect to the violent crimes sought te os . el, ero n Ireland. He said that underlhe law of f t i 4tl ee. Leti° n• w ere eases in which it was , difficult to obtain ~tsittst, , He we 's was notorious in smuggling cases, for in `vil in e \,i) h a d t s a r y his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord I tee m s en t i an,i. the trouble to show what a bad law ex e• th at r. . Wih respeet to them, however, he simply 1,,,,41 tea 'i - ie s ,l, ° I might come out of evil. His Noble and ii!LitieePect to ttargotnent was the same as that used by him !km for that )bogy privilege question, in which it was main- Il e ic e !t viol s e might make any punishment they 4 it e ioo of the privileges of the Houses of Parliament.. ue a great general improvement if it were the law generally. He was quite sure, if his Noble 'Friend looked into th- Act, he would find that a Fimilsr one hadbeen proposed by him ( Lord Brougham). There were two Acts, and he recommended his Noble Friend (Lord Campbell) to refresh his memory by reading them. He felt it his duty, when in troducing those Acts, to create court-martials to try alloffences, and . giving a power to condemn a man to transportation for life.' In the 79. h clause of the same Act his Noble Friend would find what he had stated to be correct. He did not enter into these general questions at all. But the venue Act, which was not opposed, passed in the month of August, and he (Lord Brougham) was quite sure there were not such excesses as at present. • Lord CAMPBELL said he would not enter into any con troversy with his Noble and Learned Friend, for it was well known he was a Scotch advocate, and it would be very much for the advantage of his country if he had never changed his intentions.—(A laugh.) In his Noble Friend's Bill, he mis• understood what was its intention, for as they say, their Lordships did not make the law, but were only to de clare it. Earl GREY said, before the Bill was read a second time, he wished to say a few words, and he was bound to remark that his Noble Friend had made out a sufficiently strong case to justify Parliament in arming the Government with additional powers. He deplored and he regretted that a case had been made out for passing stringent measures, but he could net but remember that that was not the first Bill of that description that they had been called on to pass. For the last half century since the union took place there were no five consecutive years in which the ordinary law of the country was sufficient. A suc cession of Acts had been passed at different times for the purpose of arming the Executive with additional power. With what effect towards the pacification of the country, the fearful state of things which the Noble Lord depicted in introducing the present Bill was evidence, the tendency of which no one could mistake. After that statement it could hardly be supposed that this Act, which was of a similar nature, would be suf cient to repress the insubordination which existed. They had no other alternative left but pecuniary grants. So tar as eleeme ynary relief could meet the distresses of the country, Parliament afforded that relief ; but, notwithstanding all the Acts which had been passed for the purpose of repressing outrage, and notwithstanding all the grants for relief that had been made by the Imperial Parliament, no permanent or effectual improvement bad taken place in that country. This proves that they ought not to continue in that line of pro cedure. They were bound to go to the root of the evil, not merely to repress by arbitrary power the commission (of offences against life in that country, but to take away the spirit of disaffection which prevailed. He therefore thought that Parliament would not be doing its duty if it did not pass a measure of the kind he referred to. He was well aware that the second reading of the Bill was not the time for the discussion of those mea sures; but, he said, that if before that Bill left the House some measure of the description he alluded to were not introduced— if, before the third reading of the Bill, we are not given some full and wise policy which her Majesty's Ministers mean to adopt—in that case it will be the duty of this House not to de lay the passing of the Bill, not to refuse the Government those powers which are necessary for the protection of the poor man even more than the rich, but, at the same time, by a solemn vote to record our opinions upon the necessity of coupling with this measure measures of the kind to which he had alluded.— ( Hear, hear.) So strongly did he entertain the opinion, that if no other Noble Lord of longer standing in that Hoarse, and more entitled to claim the attention of their Lordships, should be prepared to bring forward such a measure, he should take upon himself the task, when the present Bill was to be read a third time, to submit to their Lordships, in what shape he had not yet sufficiently considered to be enabled to state, a resolution in an address to her Majesty, calling upon their Lordships not to rest satisfied with the present meas ire, or with these other measures of immediate relief, to which lie would give his cordial consent, and to lookmore deeply into the present condition of the people of Ireland, and to endea vour to apply some remedy commensurate with this evil. He considered it better to reserve any remarks which he might have to make upon the details of the present measure. He would, however, just say that he cordially approved of the prin ciple of that part of the Bill which sought to throw upon those districts of the country in which offenses took place the burden of providing for the support of the bereaved families, and the expense of giving rewards for the discovery of offences.— ( Hear, hear.) He believed this was a sound and wise princi ple, and he hoped that Government would render this clause more perfect, and make them permanent enactments. He could not help protesting against the alteration sought to be introduced by a Noble Lord. The effect of the alter. ation would be to induce juries to find persons guilty upon insufficient evidence, because by finding these persons guilty the district to which the persons who composed the juries belonged world be relieved of all expense. He con sidered that there might be a temptation which might act upon the minds of the juries to relieve the districts in which they lived by unfair verdicts. He thought that, in the shape in which the Bill then stood, an inducement would not be given to jurymen to convict parties, and, therefore, he thought the amendment sought for by the Noble Lord would not be an im provement. He agreed, that though the cost of those crimes on the district in which they were committed was perfectly proper and reasonable, the population had great means at command for the prevention of crime, if they were inclined to support the law, for crime only recurred because it was unpunished. It was his opinion that the district should bear the pocuniary expenses which arose in consequence. There was another point to which he particularly wished to call the attention of their Lordships. He thought that a clause should be inserted in a Bill to limit its duration. A Noble Lord had suggested that the Bill should be repealed. He thought that his suggestion was the better one, because no Government would propose its renewal, unless circumstances were such as to justify them in asking it. In the present stage of the sill, he was not prepared to dissent from it ; but he hoped that the clauses which had reference to the punishment of persons out between sunrise and sunset would be considerably modified. After a few words from the Marquis of WESTMEATH, the Bill was read a second time. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Monday, Feb. 23.. THE ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. E. BULLER rose to open the adjourned debate, but, from the confusion that prevailed, owing to the number of Honourable Gentlemen who, at the moment, left the house, his remarks dal net reach the gallery. He would briefly refer to the arguments used by the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, with regard to the question then before the House. Those arguments consisted not of any new proposition, they were hackneyed statements always put forward by the protectionists viz., that an excess of importation would lower the price of labour. The House would at once perceive that the arguments brought forward were merely old ones, which the talent of the Honourable Gentleman placed in a brilliant light. He had sent forth a jackdaw in the plumage of the peacock. He ( Hr. E. Buller) would endeavour to show that those arguments used by the Hon. Member were founded neither on a just principle nor on sound policy. The Hon. Member had said that England could vie with other countries. He told them to look at America, and see if there was any great party there founded on either class interest or politics that would advocate such a measure as the one proposed by her Majesty's Government, or would they find any public man who would give it his countenance or support.—( Hear, hear.) The only way to induce foreign nations to adopt freo trade was for this country to set them the example. If they were to show those nations the advantages that were to be derived from adopting free-trade principles, they would not be slow to follow our footsteps. He was one of those who believed that it was wise to fight hostile tariffs by free imports. The amount of imports from France, from the year 1833 to 1844, increased to 3,000,0351., whilst the exports of this country to France advanced to 3,340,0001. On the other hand, every year proved tl e necessity of this measure. Instead of sending English gold to Russia to purchase Russian goods, which they would sell here to a disadvantage afterwards, they would have the advantage of being able to get those goods in exchange for English goods. He knew how much had been said upon this subject already, and therefore he did not intend to delay the House much longer.—( Hear, hear.) But the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury had warned the House not to pass this measure. Now he knew nothing of the arguments of the Honourable Member, but he had heard that the Honourable Member mentioned the Turkish empire in connexion with the question. He would say nothing of the absurdity of comparing the two countries. One was a country pre-eminent for its commercial prosperity, while the other was one possessed of a people so proud and haughty as not to be able to appreciate the value of commercial enterprise, and who knew little or nothing of the steam-engine and power-loom. (The Hon. Gentleman then quoted several passages from flati Sharaff, Prime Minister of the Grand Sultan, in order to show the benefits of a good administration. ) The greater the supply of food to the working classes the greater was the chance of elevating their moral and physical condition. A cheap and plentiful supply of food enabled the poor man to rend his children to school and to give them a moral education. 'fhe Hon. Gentleman the Member for Shrews bury had been looked up to as the embodiment of a 6‘ great idea," and he (Mr. Buller) had listened with much anxiety and attention, on Friday night, expectit ' 7 to hear the enonciation of some great principle to govern the new genera tion, and which was to shed light and happiness on the world. And what was it j that the Hon. Gentleman proposed ? why, to give a preponderance to the agricultural interest—to give power to one class. Now, he could notadm i‘ i i t e t m he be p r ri f n o - r prin ciples which had been pr o p ounded b y the Hon. Shrewsbury (Mr. Disraeli). If those principles were to be adopted nothing but confusion must arise. It was neither more nor less than saying that for the benefit of class interests the whole community must be distressed. The next question was that which had been proposed by the Right Honourable Baronet First Lord of the Treasury. The great question was, whether protection was right or wrong, and what course they should adopt con cerning it. It appeared that the country was divided into two great parties—the moneyed and the industrial, he ought to say the agricultural interests. If they favoured one, they could not but injure the other. It was evident, therefore' that protection was either a delusion or a fraud. If they were to protect one at the expense of the ether, it was making the Sovereign of the country not the Sovereign of the people, but of a faction or a party. He could not see how the dis tinction was to be drawn. They had been told that protection ought to be shown to the colonial interests. If such were to be the case exclusively, what reason would not they who have to do with foreign commerce have to com plain of the restrictions imposed by the duties on the articles in which they dealt ? It was, in fact, giving a benefit to one portion of the empire at the expense of the rest. la conclusion, be would thank the House for the attention they had bestowed on him, end he would merely state, that feel ing the necessity and importance of carrying the measure as speedily as possible, he should give the Government his humble but most cordial support. They had, in circumstances of pecu liar difficulty, followed a course most consistent with their own honour and with their duty to their Sovereign.—( Hear. ) Captain BATESON observed, that during the whole of the protracted debate but one Irishman had spoken to the question, and he,therefore, rose to state thzt he would give his most decided opposition to the proposed measures of the Government. He held in his hand an extract from a report by Mr. Leonard Falk ner, a Factory Commissioner, in 1845, in which he states that a vast number of accidents arise in consequence of the cogs of the wheels of the " throstle break" not being properly " boxed." The Hon. Member having concluded reading the extract, he said that the recommendations contained in the report for the amelioration of the ,condition of the working people in factories had particular reference to the factory of John Bright, Brothers, of Rochdale.—( Hear, hear.) And he would now leave it to the House to say whether the Honourable Member was sincere in his sympathies for the poor, whether his regrets for their condition were not feigned, and his philanthrophy spurious.—(Hear.) One word more in reference to that Hon. Member, and he had done with him. He had been asked What was the compara tive duration of human life its Wiltshire and Manchester, but he did not think proper to answer the question. But he (Captain Bateson) could tell the House that in Wiltshire the average duration of human like was thirty-three years. while in Manchester it was only seventeen. —( Hear, hear.) Having made these observations, he would now confine his remarks to his own unhappy country. No man regretted more than he did the failure of the potato crop in Ireland; but would it not be a mockery to say that the people of Ireland would be benefited by lowering the price of the agricul- tural produce of a people, eleven-twelfths of whom depended upon it for support ?—( Hear, hear.) The Drainage Bill would be one which, under the fostering care of protection, would much benefit Ireland. Employment had been acknowledged on all hands to be one of the most efficacious means of relieving the misery and distress that prevailed in Ireland; and he (the Hon. Member) had fondly looked forwaid to the improvement of land as a means of increasing employment, when prosperity would be certain to increase in proportion as distress diminished, and so would the people of Ireland be vastly benefited.—( Hear, hear.) But if the measure of the Right Hon. Gentleman should be carried, could any person expect or suppose that the landlords would lay out their capital with the certainty of loss staring them in the face ?—(Hear, hear.) Could the tenant afford to reclaim the bog and sow it with corn, so as to compete in the market with the foreigner, who had the advantages of climate and land in a superior state of cultivation 2—( Hear, hear.) No ; the bog would remain barren, and the hill-side would continue to grow nothing but heather ; and one of the chief channels of employment would thus be blocked up. He felt strongly on the question, both far the sake of the agriculturist and manufacturer. In the north of Ireland the hand-loom weaver was often a farmer; and under the present system of protection, in one small town 18,0001. worth of linen was sold at the weekly market ; but should the present measure pass, trade would be destroyed, and the agriculture of the country would he shut out by means of foreign competition. He protested against the measure as being an unnecessary, a hazardous, and a revolutionary scheme.—( Hear, hear.) No doubt the mea sure would have the effect of stimulating the advocates for repeal of the union to increased exertions. They would say to the farmer, " England has deprived you of the advantage which her markets have hitherto given for the sale of your corn, butter, beef, and pork—your occupation is gone, and you are in no better position than the foreign trader, and can you now refuse to cry, huzza for the repeal of the union ?" He would again implore the House to pause before it placed so dangerous a weapon in the hand of designing agitators. He confessed that it was with feelings of apprehension and alarm, that he looked forward to the proba bility of this measure passing into a law, the consequence of which it was impossible to foresee. It might be the fore shadowing of another revolution which would affect things of a more vital interest, and lead to the destruction of all for which we oncessprized the English constitution. He would not take up the time of the House by alluding at length to the smallne-s of the compensation which had been given to Ireland, he should only state one fact, which was, that in Lon donderry the average charge for the police force for the last three years was 2,2171. 10s. 5i., which was a very small fraction above Id. per acre. If the Government had intended to relieve Ireland, why not forego the repayment of the loan for the erection of workhouses in that country ?—that would have been considered a real boon. At present the only persons that would be benefited by the compensation would be the midnight legislators, who require a large police force. He asked the House if it would sanction by its deliberate decision— would the House declare that there was to be a new faith for its Members—were its Members to become weather cocks, veering about at every breath of popular opinion, to point out tl.e quarter from which the blast of agitation was strongest? He should still abide by the old war-cry of the country, " No sur render I" But, however, let him give them this warning, that while they were advancing the doctrines of free-trade, they did net injure the very cause which they most desired to serve; that whilst they were urging proceeding on the impulse of this age, and endeavouring to go onwards, .let them take care that whilst their progress was onwards, it was not at the same time downwards. Now, let him ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether, in the concoction of this comprehensive measure he provided for the contingency—for he was bound to provide for all contingencies—if he had provided for contingency that in the event of its proving by dear bought experience that his measure had failed—that in the event of these acres which he was now throwing out of cultivation remaining untilled, supplies from abroad failing, the industry of the great manufacturing districts being paralysed, and famine and want staring that in dustrious community in the face, he begged to ask the Right Honourable Baronet whether, in the event of such a contin gency as that, he had made any provis'on for retracing his steps, and restoring the country to prosperity and abundance— " Facilis descensus averni, sed revocaregradum hic labor est." Mr. MONTAGUE GORE was anxious to justify the vote which he was about to give, and the opinions which he now entertained of the subject before the House ; and he was anxious to do this for the respect he entertained for a great party within the House, and also fora great party out of doors. In doing this, he must beg to remind the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, that if there was a consistency which was a great and noble quality, and which he hoped would alw j ays ba met with in this country, there was also another species, of which obstinacy and self-interest were ingredients. When Hon. Gentlemen talked about changes of opinion, he could convince them that in every great question which had agitated this country there had been great changes of opinion. On that great question of the corn-laws a great change of opinion had taken place in those who bad in 1814 and 1815 maintained that any price below 90s. a quarter for wheat could not be remunerative. Mr. Huskisson, in 1814, was a strong advocate of protection mea sures ' • and yet, as every one knew, he subsequently de clared that the corn-laws could not be maintained. If it were an error to change, then were the public and all parties guilty of the charge. He (Mr. Gore) would consider himself un worthy of a seat in that House—he would consider himself unworthy of taking part in any public debates—if, when con vinced of an en or he did not come forward and manfully and frankly avow it. But he considered it a very material point that a question which distracted public councils to such an ex tent should have a settlement, especially when no injury could arise to any of the great public interests of the country from its being done.—(Hear, hear. ) When they locked to their colonial possessions—their Indian empire—they must see bow desirable it was to their interests that these measures should pass, and that energy should be imparted to the executive Government. Ho would not have voted in support of the Minister on the mere plea of the necessity of a settlement, if he were not convinced that these measures might ba passed without detriment to the public interests.— ( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for the War Department, made use of a term which has been laid hold of in a sense which he did not mean it to signify ; he said, that the agriculturists were acting under a delusion— he meant under mistaken views. He (Mr. Gore) perfectly agreed with him in that opinion, for it was quite a delusion to consider that the country would be deluged with an inun dation of corn. He would just state the result of his inquiries on this subject. According to Mr. Jacob's report in Dantaie the price of wheat averaged at forty shillings the quarter. They should then add freightage and the expenses of landing and lading. A friend of his stated that he paid 4s. Bd. for freightage, Is. 4d. for insurance, and 6s. 91 for lading and landing, in all 12s. 9d. Another gentleman of the highest respectability makes it 10s. At Odessa, in 1840, wheat averaged 345. per quarter. And he had been informed that for freightage it was usual to pay 8s 6d., insurance is. 4d., and lading 55., in all 14s. 10d. Another gentleman made the extra charges amount to 15s. With regard to capital being in those countries, or that they were progressing in agricultural improvement, he had only to say that those countries did net possess either capital or improved agriculture, because the facilities for conveyance were so few- and bad that capital could not be in vested there and labour was wanted there, because the present was of feudal tenure and the labourers were little better than serfs. In Odessa matters were not better than in Dantzic, because the roads were not only bad, but the corn was brought by bullocks, and they were so scarce that very little competition need be feared fro n that quar ter for many years. It bad been said that an immense inundation of corn might be expected from America ; but there was a great want of capital in America also, and labour was very high there, and the cultivation of the land net good. (The Hon. Member thee read a speech delivered at Albany, by a member of an agricultural society, to show that the corn crops of that State were often defi cient, and did not in some years average twelve bushels an acre. In the course of the debate many allusions had been made as to what would be the remunerative price to a farmer ; and he should then say that, in his opinion, a more difficult question could not be put, for if there existed a diversity of opinion en any question, the present was the very one.—(Hear, hear.) If they looked at the great lin provement that had taken place in agriculture, they would find that a corresponding improvement had taken place in manufactures. If they took the history of the country for many years past, they would find that, where an improvement took place in agriculture, a corres ponding rise took place in manufactures. This fact was evident in the year 1760, when manufactures began to rise in importance. Where large towns sprung up, and the population rapidly increased, the two branches were most flourishing, and his opinion on that point was backed by the best authorities. He mentioned a remarkable circumstance regarding Spain. '1 he Spanish people had pursued . a system of restriction with respect to their colonies, and nothing but distress and disaster occurred. At last new counsels prevailed, and a better system was adopted. What was the consequence? Thecolonies immediately flourished, and the people of Spain obtained great advantage from their improved con dition. This was In 1765. What was tht strongest feature of the case was, that Cadiz, which was the place most opposed to the change, was the principal places that was benefited by it. Another circumstance which he would refer to was the great im provement made by the formation of turnpike roads. When they were first talked of there was a great apprehension that they would be a serious loss to their land, but it was well known to what extent, as Adam Smith had shown, they had increased the value of these lands which it had been sup posed they would have injured. But he would new revert to the most important point which had been opened hi this debate, viz., the way in which the measure would affect the condition of the poor. It had been asserted that with high prices there were always high wages. Such might be the case it' the estimates were to be taken from long periods ; but he believed, that if the times were taken when there had been periods of greats scarcjty they had always proved periods of great distress. He thought it would he better to take the years us they followed each other, and he sb ri Ge m z i i i i l 6 : l l . l q6 a us t a. i rp u tee l rr 7 .q 9 u s la , ~i, .t . re ih 7 re 9 .7 7 ,ln e hie7 harvest hi ea w ni a t s bhe c e l e e ne fi r c ot i p e a n dw t as , t in h b a ge t ut NtaVelhri it b tt was deficient in quantity; it had risen considerably in yPriene, on and the stock had been so kept down, that in 1799 w h eat had risen t • 925. 7d. a quarter. as st continued goli8:: as e i n , u N el v do l 51e deficient,s when per th harvaeit quarter.a 1 1 0 8 8 0 8: 1 . t d risen hA anci been when ex tremelyth bad,e same it I l i v a a r s v u e s p t and bread was as high as Is. 1014 d. th e four-pound h loaf. The corn law had no advantage t• those for whose benefit it had been established. It could not be possible to name a period in which greater fluctuation hi prices had tak en p l ace than from 1814 down to the present time. He fhlly agreed in the s en ti ments expressed by the Right Mon. Gentleman the Secretary at War. The corn-law had no! worked so well as many Hon. Gentle men supposed for the welfare of the agriculturists. Let them consider how the shipping interest had been influenced by it. Nothing was so injurious to that interest as great fluctuation in prices. Under a cor n-law the y had sudden demand for foreign corn, which brought sudden demand for shipping. Freightage of course rese, and the shipowners got great profits, but the moment a variation in price took place, then the demand for shipping ceased, and a very considerable loss was sustained. It should be the object of the Government, when they reflected on the poverty of their fellow -countrymen, to extend the means of supplying them with the necessaries of life, by permitting corn to be imported, not only from Europe, but America.—(llear.) He did not believe that it was by unduly swelling any one interest to an unnatural proportion that the well-being of the country could be secured, but by cordially assisting to make equal laws for all, that the symmetry and vigour of the whole State could be preserved. If the permanent prosperity of this country was desirable, it could only be decreed by equal laws. For these reasons, Sir, I shall support the measures of her Majesty's Government—believing, as I do, that they are based on principles of sound policy; and that they are calculated to promote the general interests •f the empire. It is not by swelling into unhealthy, because unnatural proportion, any particular in terest, but by fostering the general well-being of the state, that the life-blood Is best distributed to every member, and the symmetry and vigour of the whole preserved. I think that the true prosperity of agriculture must rest, not en the enactments of your statute-book, but on the energy and enterprise breathed into it by the spirit of your free institutions, and guarded by the fence of your equal laws. And if looking beyond the immediate precincts of this island I regard the remote countries and the distant nations to which British commerce extends— " The shores watered by her wealthy tides," view her diffusing comforts, kindling enterprise, stimulating In dustry, quickening into life the germs of social excellence, and shedding far and wide the invigorating beams of civilisation, liberty, pure religion —I cannot refrain my cordial assent to mea sures which, by giving further development to , com merce, will diffuse such blessings to the human race. I ask you not to consent to this measure from any dread of popu lar agitation, or from any wish to keep In power a particular Ad ministration—l feel that such motives would be unworthy of us as Legislators, and as loyal English gentlemen; and while dissenting from the judgment of Hon. Gentlemen who oppose these measures, I honour and admire their firmness. But I call en the House to come to a decision on this question with their hearts—to use the simple and elegant language of that prayer with which we ausplcate our daily proceedings in this House—with our hearts free from " partial interests, prejudices, or private affections," and to 'give that vote which, by laying on durable foundations the future greatness and prosperity of this mighty empire, may conduce to the welfare of the countless millions who are subject to its sway or dependent on its destinies. Mr. R. A. FITZGERALD said, that until a recent period he had no intention of occupying a seat on the benches of that House, or troubling Hon. Gentlemen with his opinions. However, witnessing the awful vlsitation which it had pleased Providence to inflict on his country, and drsading the consequences that might follow, he thought it his bounden duty to attend there, and urge as far as his bumble ability would allow him, to impress on the minds of her Ma jesty's Ministers the necessity of taking immediate steps to prevent the horrors consequent on pestilence in that important portion of the British Empire.—(Hear, hear.) It was with no small gratifi cation he had listened to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Ministry the other night, and most cordially and warmly did he corroborate every statement made by him—most willingly did he concur in every opinion advanced by that Right Hon. Gentleman ; aid most grateful did he feel, also, to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department, for the anxiety he had evinced in bringing forward measures for the pro motion and encouragement of employment—thus giving the people of Ireland a means of providing tbod, of which they stood so much in need. He regretted that both Right Hon. Gentlemen were ab sent, as he should feel a deep satisfaction in expressing to them the feelings by which he was then actuated. But though he felt that these measures would be productive of great good, yet they were not of that comprehensive nature which the distress of the people of Ire land demanded. At the seine time, he had hopes, from the opinions he hail heard expressed by Hon. Gentlemen, that measures would be brought forward as further evidences of the good inten- Huns of her Majesty'S Ministers towards Ireland, and their wish to remedy the evils that afflicted that country.—(Hear, hear.) He was not going to answer the statements made by the Hon. Mem ber for Londonderry, with regard to manufactures, as he confessed that he was better acquainted with the details respecting land. Neither was it his wish to notice the accusation male against Messrs. Bright and Co., as he had no doubt if that Hon. Member were iu his place he would be able to answer everything satisfactorily. With regard to the measure now proposed, and the consideration of which had occupied the House for so many nights past, lie would say that he fully concurred iu its principles. He thought that tile agricul turists ought to have time for preparation, as the speech of the Hon. Member for Durham had convinced him that any sudden change would be more injurious than beneficial. He regretted the calami ties that had recently occurred to Ireland, and he felt sure that what ever happened to that ,c•untry would interest England; but he certainly did regret that the connexion between .the nations had not been of a more cordial nature. Ile would take another opportunity of expreising his opinions en that subject. When the measure of the Right Houourable Baronet had been first spoken of, it had excited the greatest alarm, but only amongst his own constituents in Ireland. He thought that the measure was likely to be very disastrous, but the alarm was allevi ated by the statement, that in that part of the Empire conmeneation would be given Ter any injury sustained. There is no doubt that it would be needed, and they were quite ready to take them on either site.--(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) When the nature, however, of the measure was known, the whole of the alarm was im mediately dissipated ; and the country, and he himself might say for his constituents especially, that they were prepared to give their whole support to the Government. Some Honourable Gentlemen were very much in the habit of talking of going forward in legislation at a railroad pace. Now, he had no ob jection to going forward, but, at the same time, he should not like to go downwards.—(Hear.) A steady pace forwardly would be more for the advantage of this great empire The position of the Irish nation was between the two parties In that House. They conceived that their interests were generally opposed by the party on the Mi nisterial side, and they ust.ally looked upon gentlemen oil his (Mr. Fitzgerald's) side as friends. The Irish people were now placed in this dilemma. They were befriended by these on whom they had been accustomed to look as enemies, and found their interests op posed by those whom they all along regarded as their friends. lie felt satisfied that In the vote lie should give he would receive the thanks of his constituents. He thought that the Right lien. Baronet at the head of the Goveniment had evinced great moral courage in the part he lied acted, and had shown himself werthy of that high position which he occupied as the chief Minister of this great empire. —([tear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in the measure which he had brought forward, had considered the interests of the whole nation, and had not sacrificed those Interests to the aggrandisement of a class.—(Hear, and cheers.) Captain LOCKHART, who was almost inaudible in the gallery, was understood to say, that the products of this country required moderate protection, but that one article of produce was not entitled more than another to the exclusive advantages of protection. He was elected a Member of that House, to represent a numerous con stituency on protective principles.—(Hear, hear, from the protec tionists)—and had heard no new principle or argument brought for ward which would induce him to change his opinion.—(Hear.) He did not see that the House was to be called upon to repeal the corn-laws, in order to remove a temporary evil—a simple provision might surely be found for a remedy, without disturbing and destroy ing the different great existing interests. It had been argued that the experience which had been seen since 1843 furnished abundant reason for the abandonment of protection,. ./.1p (Captain Lockhart) was of opinion, on the contrary, that Ole effects of the measure of 1843 were a strong evidence in favour of the continuance of moderate protection. It had been presumed, that when Great Britain should set the example of free-trade, the whole world would simultaneously follow it. Such an idea was, however, purely chimerical, and would not be relied on. The Hon and Gallant Member having briefly alluded to the displacement of interests which would ensue in agri culture and commerce when the measure should come into full operation, proceeded to say that he lied met with experienced farmers, who were of opinion that the effect of the Bill would be to throw much land out of cultivation. He would read a brief extract from a letter which he had received from a friend, a practical far mer, who was a great admirer of the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of the Government. "If," wrote his friend, " Sir Robert Peel succeeds in carrying his intended Corn Bill it will ruin this part of the country. The greater portion of our inferior land will be thrown out of cultivation, and the grass land will in - a few years be come altogether useless." The. measure opened up an alarming prospect for Great Britain. The policy which was now being pur sued was similar to that which ruined ancient Rome, and it was his sincere hope that it would no longer be followed up.--(Cheers.) Sir GEORGE CLERK. after what had fallen from Hon. Members around, would make a few observations. After the Bill had been so fully debated, he thought it would be useless for him further to parti cularise its merits; but he would confine himself . simply to its de fence. It had been stated that the pollcy of the Government resolved itself into two heads, one of which was to provide for an emergency, and the other to construct a system. One Hon. Member had said that it was to carry out a new system of commercial policy. He (Sir George Clei k) would altogether deny that it was to carry out a new system of commercial policy. If his Right lion. Friend carried out this measure, it would be merely a continuance of the principles whichan d a h had laugh, ) bee pursued l which characterised the measure of 1842 ; or, t o go f urt h er b ac k , n those principles which the Right Hon. Gentleman entertained, in common with the late Mr. Huskisson, in the yea r 1824 . E ven at thought that this country for the last twenty years could not be considered asconstructing t that period it had been stated that the Government hadrun wild with the n t to f notiol o i li n e f w fr t e h e e f trade.—(Hear. ( o l f fea p r o , lic h y ear, only of a temporary nature.---(Hear, hear.) H e wou ld go a little f u rther forward, with respect to the dreadful fate that awaited Ire land, than the present time. I t must be borne in mind that potatoes the emergency o a novel system of policy. As respected the case, he wished he could cons id er i t as will be wanted for the years 1847 and 1848 and 1849 as well as for the present year. The crop of the present year was se completely destroyed that it would be impossible to furnish seed sufficient for the next season. He had been informed in his own neighbourhood that this disease had never been known before to have .reached so exten sive a height as at present The answer which had been made the other night to a question from the Hon. Member for Cockermouth with respect to this disease, would be a sufficient reply to the Honourable Gentleman who talked of this matter as a mere " temporary emergency." It was very much to bo feared that this disease would not be confined to this year, bat there was reason to apprehend that it 'would extend to the next and future years. It was not to be wondered at, that they did not get parties to agree On this subject of the potato rot, for it was very various in different districts of the country ; and as gentlemen received their informa tion, so they held their opinions and expressed them. But there was one test to which they might refer, as to what was the real extent of the calamity. They wore all aware that the potato formed a very large proportion cf the food of this metropolis,—what then was the state of the supply of the London market? He found upon inquiries, that the supply during the last four months of the last half-year, ending in 1845, amounted to 770,000 sacks, while during the same period, from the let of October last to the 14th of January, they had only 540,000 sacks, showing a falling off of one-third of the supply to the metropolis (Hear, bear)—and if a similar inquiry were made with respect to the state of theirlarge ma nufacturing districts, such as Manchester and Birmingham, they would find that the difference amounted to a much greater proportion. Let them now look to what had been the effect of this scarcity upon Prices in London. At the end of January, 1844, potatoes by the ton averaged from 50 shillings to 80 shillings; 'at the end of January in the present year they rated from SO to 160 shillings, the lowest price being nearly double what it was before. The poor people would now be driven to purchase bread for food, and it was an ascertained fact, that in those parts of the town inhabited by the poorer classes, the bakers that before baked but 10 sacks were now baking 12, showing an increase in the consumption of flour of 10 per cent. When they took these circumstances together—when they considered the crop had not been sufficient to supply the demand for feud—although they had been importing largely for the last six years —when they were aware that the whole supply for Ireland was likely to be cut off —that there was already an increase of 10 per cent. on the demand for flour, and that the reports from Yorkshire, from whence their chief supply of potatoes came, stated that that supply would. not hold out till the month of May— he would ask them what was the best course for the Govern meat to pursue? Was it not their duty to endeavour to prevent impediments from being thrown; in the way of an adequate supply of provisions for the country.—(Loud cheers.) He should wish also to advert to what was perfectly well known, that in consequence of the great variability of the season, the harvest, though not deficient in bulk, was exceedingly so in the weight and quality of the grain. What was the effect that this deficiency had upon the averages in last autumn, when it was of the utmost importance to the country to procure a supply of foreign corn—when they knew that the potato disease had extended over the whole of the country— and when It was well known that the harvest In Europe had failed to a very great extent, in consequence of which Holland and Bel gium had removed all impediments to the free imp rtation of corn? —(Cheers.) At that very time we found that the price of core averaged very low, while the averages of the duty were moving in the opposite direction, and were rapidly rising. No subject attracted the more anxious attention of the Government than these facts. They compared week by week, the quantities of corn exported with those imported, and they found that the proportion of the former was very trifling. If they perceived,' however, that the supply was not sufficient, would it not have been their bounden duty to have opened the ports and prevented that supply from being diminished by exportation ? And in such an emergency the Government would be justified in taking upon themselves to open the: ports.—(Hear, hear.) What was the great argument for: the system' of the sliding scale? namely, that it contained within itself a self-adjusting principle, The Hon. Member had said a great deal of Russia, aid spoke of that country as if Great Britoil derived the whole of her supply of food from it ; but he would show the Hen. ifember that he was mis taken, and that England never did get from Russia this enormous a r re ete d ri to ed t , hi E n n k g sle d d h it d ß a ut v a e t ry th d e eti pe a r e io n d t t s . o u u p p which f a t f l hod find tdhH: which o e . h r e M h e t emh appeared e a r Hon. Member had to ransack the whole world for facts upon which to support his argument. Now the fact was, that in four years this country had received only 1,200,000 quarters of wheat from Russia. It was true that in 1840 food had reached a famine price here, by reason o f scarc ity th a t y ear ; b u t even In fact, the Honourable Member had argued as if G rea t Britain as the only country i n • t h e world that looked to o th e r countries for a supply o f corn i n a dditi on t o it s own resour ces. But he begged to tell ties Hon. Member that there were other countries besides Great Brit a i n w h o r ece i ve d a l arge su pply from Russia, and who, therefore, took off a gr e at portion of that quarters. during that year England imp o rted fr o m R uss i a on ly 317,000 te supply which the Hon. Member had given England the credit of re ceiving. Then with regard to the United States, the llon. Member had said that they were most fertile in the produce of corn; but he begged to tell the Hon. Member, that from the great extent of the population of that country, and the great increase of that population, it was not likely that England could expect a supply to any con siderable amount from the United States. He found, by returns which he had now before him, that since the year 1793 Great Britain had imported less corn front the United States than from any other country, except in the year 1840, and even then the extra portion was but very small indeed. In the year 1840 the population of the United States was 17,000,000, and during that year ex ported 10,600,000 quarters of corn, which left only four bushels per head for the whole population of the country; but corn not being the principal article of food in the country, it was found that more than a sufficient supply had been retained for the use of the population; but in the whole of the quantity exported very little of it came to England But even supposing that the argument of the Hon. Member was well founded, if the population of this country should go on increasing in the same ratio as it had for the last few years, he doubted whether this country could obtain more than a sufficient supply of food for the use of its Inhabitants, even supposing that all the available resources of Russia should be developed.—(clear, hear.) He saw by returns he had before him that in five years 10,000,000 of quarters of wheat had been imported into this country, or at the rate of two millions a year, and yet was any one prepared to say that the people of thie country had been overfed? (Hear, hear.) And even if that import trade The Hon. Member for should increase to 3,000,000 a year for the next ten years, it would not be en ever supply, taking into account foreign corn wee only 225., the probable increase of the population. Shrewsbury had spoken of the great quantity of corn imported from various ports in America, but the increasing population of that country and the great quantity of land out of cultivation, would have the of ouse that the increased con the effect of stopping that. The Hon. Member for Sunderland had stated, that in the year 1837 he imported a quantity of wheat from America, and after having paid all expen f ses he was enabled to sell it riee and, therefore, he could well _understandl how the Hon. Member could sell his wheat at that price. —(Hear, ear, hear.) The experience Canton at the of all former years ha d l e a to an increase gumption of any article at 255. ; but iii titat l y ia e d ar sh t o h w e n P f tee which ease of price. With regard to the article ° ' ' able had been introduced the other night by the Honoti a r t t, Member for Shrewsbury, he (sir G. Clerk) felt convinced tl t r the l e Hon. Member's arguments preserit time, and compared it with tt price .i in the corresponding month of 1844, he would find 80l o. had very much increased in ) And then, with respect to the wade e cotton, which were not sound , for if he looked at the price of tea at ducat by the same Hon. which had. also been intro f the duties Member, facts went to show that the redactione es on that article had been followed by increased imports, ands t correspondinghd increase in price. —(Hear, hear.) ' For his own par , t t e h id not know where the lion. Member ( Mr Disraeli 4 go estatements which he read to the House on Friday M., t last about cotton.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) If he looked at the price of cotton at New Orleans at he would find that it was sold at 6 1 ,4 ' the present moment, cents, and lower than 9 cents in some instances not per lb.—(Cheers and have b laughter.) There might certainly i i ii been a case where, from a stagnation in trade, or some s e dt h ar cause, gotten had been mention , sold at the low Price as fhethe Honourable Member, but that should not ba ci "te" seasons, and price at which cotton was sold at almost all • ns, and in every year.— (Hear, hear.) By the inventions of a certain gentleman in America (whose inventions were somewhat shullar to those of Arkwrlght in England) cottont fifty certainly be sold at a much lower rate than formerly. Aboudrears *go a petition was pre sented to that House, by farmers r ig in the neighburhood or London, who stated that if turnpikes were introduced into the northern parts of England, corn andother agricultural produce would be brought at so cheap a rate to London,. that their trade or interest would be completely ruined.—(lleer, hear, and laughter.) They also stated that labour was touch cheaper per in the northern parts of England, that it would be impossibl jo . com pete with the northern agriculturists. In the year 1 4 ! when Mr. Pitt proposed to repeal the laws restricting the importation of Irish corn, the greatest alarm took place. Members representing the western parts of Scotland stated That if such a measure were passed, the agricul ture of Scotland Wo u 1 d be ruined. 3lernbers also representing dif ferent parts of Ireland protested against the passing of such a mea sure. But what was the fact ? om Fr -- Year to year since that period the agriculture of Scotlandhat had b een continually prospering, and he would venture to say in no part of the three kingdoms was agriculture in so prosperous a state its it was in Scotland at the present moment—(Hear, hear) —and yet the metivre when proposed in 1787 created almost as much alarm as did the present measure of her Majesty's afinisters.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The House would bear in mind that in the year 1820 a petition was presented to that House by all the principal merchants in London, praying the Rouse to remove all reetrlctious from the commerce of the country. Lord Liverpool, who was then in ofilce and at the head of the Go vernment, acted upon those recommendations and did introduce a great number of measures which had for their object the removal ofpro bitions on the importation of linen and other articles. Great alarm was occasioned by the proposal. Several Irish Members protested against the measure, on the ground that the linen manufacturers and all in their employ would be completely ruined ; and the Hon. Member for Lancashire at that time no doubt spoke to the same effect. But the fact was, that at the present time the linen manufacture was in a prosperous state. The Hod. Member for Shrewsbury had for gotten that powerful speech which had been made by his friend the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government— (Lead cheering) when he made his /statements. (Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet had shown that the linen manufactures of Ireland, particularly in the neighbourhood of Belfast, were in a most prosperous state.—(Hear, hear.) He showed that from year to year, since the measures of Lord Liverpool, the linen interest of Ireland had been continually im proving, and the result was that they were now able to compete—the manufacturers of Ireland were able to compete with those of France and Britain.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Birmingham had stated that the zinc trade had materially suffered by reason of the reduction of prohibiting duty on that article, but he (sir George Clerk) should confess that he was astonished at the statement, and could not imagine how he made out his case.—(Hear, hear.) The price of zinc at one period was 751. per ton, and the duty 451. per ton. Now it should be admitted that zinc was au article of recent origin, but since the duty was removed the trade in that article had vastly increased. Therefore, by the reduction of the duty on that article alone, a new manufacture sprung up, and em ployment was given to additional hundreds of the la bourers of the country; whereas, had the prohibitory duty been contiimed, those persons must have remained without employment.— , (Hear, bear ) In the years 1843 and 1844, the quantity of zinc ins ported was 7,000 tons, half of which was again exported to India and China, and in the last year the quantity imported was 12,000 tons, not more than 2,000 tons of which had bee n ex p or t e d . X ow, could there be a clearer proof given of the value of the article, inde pendent of the vast benefit it afforded to the numerous operatives and labourers engaged about it ? —(heer, hear.) New, as regarded the silk manufactures, he could say that they had more than doubled since the duty was taken off them. In the month of Fetruary, 1842, the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced the reduction of the duty on raw silk, when objection was taken to the immediate introdue tien of the measure ; but as regarded the feeling of the House, it was unaninlius on the matter, and the question was carried on the 7th if March in the same year. Honourable Item hers will find that the most successful method of increasing their revenue is by removing high prohibitory duties. That opinion is fortified by the experience of the last twelve years. We have been removing duties upon French goods, as well as the goods of ether countries. He would mention a few articles upon which the duty had been wholly or in part taken off— French silks, gloyes, flax, and cambric, clover-seed, and linseed. ]'he Honourable Baronet then went on to state that he was as anxious as any Member of that House that the landed aris tocracy should maintain their proud position, but if that existence depends upon the corn-laws, he really trembled for it.—(Laughter.) If he understood rightly the arguments of the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, he seemed to maintain that the preponderance of pro tection should be given to the landed proprietors of this country, in order to maintain landed interest. The Hon. Baronet, whose speech throughout was almost inaudible in the gallery, concluded by saying that the agricultural party would best consult their interest and the interest of their constituents by censen.ing to a speedy settlement of this question, which cannot long be protracted, and which may now be settled under very different circumstances than these which will not fall to accompany it if delayed to a longer period, and considered that these measures, if passed, would tend to consolidate the interest of the country, and place its institutions upon a firmer foundation. Mr. 3IUN TZ rose to explain. He stated that he never expressed an opinion in opposition to the reduction of the duty on speller. He used upwards of 1,500 tons of zinc in his own business, and he could not, therefore, consider it anything but a boon thus to reduce the duty. Mr. LII?DEL stated that the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down had made one of the boldest assertions which it had ever been his lot to hear from any one who sat upon the benches along with the Hon. Baronet.—(hear, hear.) At the beginning of his speech, the Hon. Baronet startled the House by stating that there had been no change in the policy of her Majesty's Ministers.—(" Hear, hear," from the protectionists.) Why, then, did they go before the country in the year 1841 ?—(Hear, hear.) Why did they protest be fore their constituents against the change proposed by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London?—(Bear, hear.) What were the three articles upon which the Noble Lord proposed to make that change—that change which is admitted to be a more judicious one than the measure at present proposed. If no change had taken place, why, he would ask once more, is the Noble Lord and his friends upon the Opposition benches ?—(" Hear, hear," from Col. Sibthorp.) Why is the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland (Lord Lincoln), again before his constituency, and to all appearance likely to be rejected by them? Why have many Noble Lords and Hon. Gentlemen resigned their seats, acknowledging their responsibilities to their constituency ? Ile must say that he hid never heard any thing more startling than the assertion that the measure now pro posed by the Government was a natural consequence of the measures and principles which they had adopted for the last few years.— (Hear, and laughter.) Then there was another propo sition in the Right Hon. Baronet's speech, namely, that we should be called upon to give a reason for opposing this measure. These rea sons are already provided for us; we have only to look at the opinions of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government to find our limits to justify us iu our opposition.—(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, the converse ought to have been the case. We have a right to call upon Hon. Members of the Cabinet for reasons why they should alter their past policy—to inform us of the means by which they had been induced to alter their course of policy, and adopt that which they now recommended. The Hon. Member then went on to state that if no important changes should take place in the price of bread, what becomes of the argument which is so con stantly used to excite the public against us ?—(Hear, hear.) Telling the populace what bold impiety it is to make dear the price of bread which God Almighty has given to the poor. What becomes of this argument, if the expectations held out with reference to those important changes should not be realised ? (Hear, hear.) lie would now drop any further reference to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, who had just sat down, and he would now allude to the statement made by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government.—(Hear, hear.) In that speech there were some fallacies awl some inaccuracies, which, with the per mission of the House, he would allude to.— (Hear, hear.) That speech might be very properly divided into three heads—the first part contained a statement of the direct causes which had led to the recent change of opinion on the part of the Government. The second part entered into an explanation of the course which the Government intended to adopt, to meet the state of things which led to that change of opinion. The third part enumerated various facts and instances of the success which had attended the relax ation of prohibitory duties, and which circumstance was an en couragement to the Right Hoiourable Baronet to proceed still further in that course of policy.—(Hear.) The first part of the speech had been so ably treated by different Members on that side of the House since the debate commenced, that it was altogether antic cessary for him to allude to it.—(llsar, hear.) The Hon. Member for Devonshire had proved that the causes alleged for such an.altera tion were inadequate, and the remedies proposed were insufficient.— _ . (Hear, hear.) He would not, therefore, detain the House with any observations on that point. He did not hesitate to say, that with regard to the silk trade, there had been an over-amount er excess of legislative protection. He considered, however, that when the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to adhere to a protective duty of 151. per cent. ad valorem, on silk, lace, and other articles of manufac ture, he did not see why he felt called upon to abandon the principle in reference to corn. The Right Hon: Baronet proposed to reduce the duty on foreign timber from 255. to 155., with a view, no doubt, to afford a better supply to the consumer. Now, with regard to the dimished cost of timber, it was fair to take into calculation the trade of the past year, when partly from the late judicious revision of those duties, a depression had taken place in the price, and the advan tage of this reduction went into the pocket of the consumer. If the interests of the British public were thus involved, the NU ' tieners expressed their concern that the greater part, if not all, of I the increased importation from the Baltic would fall into the hands of the foreign shipowner, and the foreign producer would receive all the benefit. That point brought him to the utter incapacity of the Bri tish shipowner to compete with the foreigner. And what was the reason? Ile would call the attention of the House to the comparative expense of building a British ship in the Baltic. He took the facts from the evidence taken before the Committee on British shipping appointed the year before last, and which showed the relative cost of navigating a British and a foreign ship on a three months' voyage. The wages for working a British ship for three months amounted to 1691. 10s., and 'the wages era Prussian ship for the same period and of the same tonnage, was rather more than 811., being a difference of rather more than 88/. in favour of the Prussian ship. With regard to the cost of previsions —the cost of victualling a British ship for a three months' voyage was 96/., and the cost under the same head for a Prussian ship was only 391.. being a difference of 561. iu favour of the Prussian ship, or 140 per cent. in favour of the Prussians. So much for the costs of navigation and victualling. But he would now call their attention to the ques tion of ship-building, and he would ask whether those who looked to the British shipowners fur the carriage of articles could quarrel with the high rate of freight. They agreed to that addition of prices, because their own safety was secured by it, and, in the words'of Adam Smith, he would say, " of all the restrictive policy in the his tory of this country, I am compelled to say that the navi gation-laws are the most justifiable as national security is preferable to commercial produce." In the port of London the wages of shipwrights have not varied for the last 25 years, and that curious fact was caused by the combination existing between the carpenters and the shipwrights. At Toulon the shipwright's wages, as stated in the official reports from the French Government, amounted to a franc and a half per day, and in our dockyards at the present moment the shipwright's wages were 4s. 6d. per day. The foreign ships could be built for 5/. or 61. per ton, and such ships were superior to the vessels built at Sunderland for 101. per ton. A first-rate British ship, built in the Thames at a cost of 161. per ton, when quite ready for sailing, would cost 211. per ton. After this statement, he would ask the House whether the protection to the British shipowner could enable them to compete with the shipping from the Northern ports? Could it be possible for them to contend against such advantages unless they brought down the wages of the British shipbuilder to the miserable level of the Continental shipowners ?—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) They were asked by the Right Honourable Baronet whether they were to advance or to retreat. They might make a step in advance if they reduced the wages of the labourer, but they would deteriorate the condition of the nation, and he thought that such a step would be a retrogade movement, and no advancement. But to pursue the subject with regard to foreign timber. What were the returns of the British and foreign trade from 1842 to 1844 ? The total amount of British tonnage entered inwards from Norway and Sweden was 109,382 tons, and the foreign timber entered in the same period (the year 1842) amounted to 241,533 tons. In the year 1844 the foreign tonnage advanced considerably in amount, as did also the British. In that year the British tonnage advanced to 150,000 tons, and the foreign timber to 520,000 tons, so that in the two years the British ship ping engaged in the foreign trade increased by 20,000 tons, or 19 per cent. on the whole, while the foreign shipping in the same period increased to the extent of 187,189 tons, or 54 per cent. on the first amount of 350,000 tons. The result of this would be, that British shipowners would be driven away by this unequal competition, and the trade in the Baltic timber would fall into the hands of the fe , reigner. This was the argument of the shipowner, who was not desirous of raising prices but of lowering them. The Right Hon. Baronet had made one or two errors in his statement. He had said that it would not be believed that at that moment there was not one ton of Baltic timber ir. the port of Liverpool fit for building a first-rate twelve years' ship, so they would see the estimation in which the Baltic timber was held. So much for that part of the question relating to timber, and the prayer of the petition of the shipowners that had been laid upon the table. Intimately connected with this question was that of the colonial trade. On this point he would detain the house for a few minutes, He would begin with the case of South Australia, and he would call the attention of the Right lion. Baronet to a notice which had appeared respecting the state of this colony in the public prints a few days ago. It referred to a petition last year by an Honourable Member .1' that House, teaching the question of a free importation of Australian corn. It was asked as a boon, but it was opposed by the Right Honourable Baronet on the oceasidn, and he (Mr. Liddei) after the arguments which the Right Hon. Baronet had laid down respecting the Canadas, could not con ceive how he could oppose placing Australia on a similar footing. The statement in question represented the progress of the colony during the last five years, including 1840 and 1845, and it showed the number of acres in cultivation in the different - years. In 1840 the number of acres under cultivation was only 2,503 ; but in four years after it was 6,696. 1843 was the year in which the greatest increase of cultivation took place, arising from the demand for produce, and the high price which it bore in the market. It was remarked that in those years when prices were low, comparatively little land was brought under cultivation, in fact, in some instances it decreased, while an increase of price brought with it an increase in cultivation. If, as expected by the measure of the Government, according to the same rule which had been found to operate in Australia, prices fell in Great Britain, then land must go out of cultivation.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He could hardly conceive how prices could be maintained, if they imported five et' six millions of quarters and if Australia could not import corn to this country when there was a duty of ss. on it, how was it to be expected that the wheat of that colony could find a market in this country when there was tree importation admitted from every other nation. What also became of the argument used in support of the Canadian Corn Bill which was brought forward as a boon, because they could not import corn into this country under a duty of ss. ? They would be obliged, under the measure now proposed, to resort to the United States for a mar ket. Now, with regard to the general question he was extremely anxious to learn the opinions of her Majesty's Goverment on one point—what was the real opinion of the Government on the pro bable consequences of their measure? On this point he (Mr. Liddell) was as yet unsatisfied ; and perhaps during the progress of the pre sent debate, or at some future stage, the Right Honourable Wouldonourabie Baronet, or some other member of the Government, favour the House with some calculation of the general amount of price that might be expected under a free trade in corn. His opinion was, that if they discouraged the home grown produce, and trusted to foreign countries for the supply of their markets, al though a fruitful season would maintain an extension of prices ; yet, in a bad season—in non-productive years, and with, perhaps a rup ture with foreign powers, he believed that the cora trade would ex hibit a dangerous fluctuation in price. That was th e gran d po i nt in w hich the public were concerned, and it was in order to maintain this steadiness in supply and price, that they advocated the principle of protection. He was also ashamed now to acknowledge that he had opposed the measure of 1842, for as circumstances went, he was now inclined in favour of it.—(Cheers and laughter from the Liberal benches.) Me congratulated the Right Hon. Baronet on the accession of the Hon. Member for Finsbury to the ranks of lilt supporters, and however he might regret the loss sustained in the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster (Captain Reus), lie was fully repaid in the support of the Hon. Member for Finsbury.— (Cheers and laughter.) He admitted that the new law of settlement would be not only a great boon to the agricultural interest, but to humanity. He had often seen with the most heartfelt pity miserable beings—men, wives, and families, wandering in the public highways of the country, without a place to lay their heads, and unable to go to their parishes, not knowing where they could find a settlement, with nothing in the shape of peounhuy relief before them, seeking a miserable pittance from the hand of charity, and if they reached their own country—say Scotland, or Ireland—perhaps literally starving. He trusted, therefore, that no consideration would cause him to lay aside this measure, for he had no hesitation in sesing that by so doing he would confer a lasting benefit on the country. It would be unnecessary Dar him to trouble the House longer. He had entices voured to set before the House the true postlion in which they stood, antt the claim., the agriculturists hed to protection. lie did not • pretend to' say that after the declaration made by the Right Hon. Baronet, and by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord John Russell), the corn-laws in their present shape could be maintained, but so long as he sat in that Rouse—so long as he had the honour of representing his constituency—so long would his voice be heard in flavour of a modified protection. Mr...HUTT said that two days ago he had thehonour of presenting several petitions from shipowners on the Wear and the Tees, in which they refuted the fallacies advanced by the Hon. Member who had last spoken relative to the interests of British as opposed to foreign slapping. The Hon. Member wished to uphold the Interests of British shipowners by maintaining high duties in timber.—(Hear.) Could anything be more absurd than thus to place an interdict on the materials of ship-building? The principle Was scouted by all the intelligent shipowners of the north of England. The only market at present opened to them was the Baltic, but he would not follow the Hon. Gentleman through all his detailed argu ments on this subject. Ile expected that after the petitions presented by the Honourable Member he would on some future day bring the whole of this question before the House. He thought that if Hon. Gentlemen opposite were so dissatis fied with the Right Hon. Baronet, they ought to adopt the mein mendation of his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury, and bring the Right Hon. Gentleman's conduct before the House in a motion of want of confidence. What was the worst charge tkat they could bring against the Right Hon. Gentleman ? It was only that he had been unwilling to be an instrument In their hands. They had supported him in his tariff and Corn Bill of 1842, and now, when they came to the best and 1, isest tariff of all, they suddenly stopped. lie thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had greater reason to complain of them. It had been asserted by Hen. Gentlemen opposite, that If the measures of the Right lion. Gentle man were adopted by this country, foreigners would give us their corn, but they would take nothing but our gold in return. This had b3en represented as a most alarming state of things ;-and that we should be giving employment to the labourers of the Continent, while the people of the Continent would give no employ ment to us. Now, he was prepared to say that foreigners would not require us to give them gold in exchange for corn. Even if they did so he believed that it Would be advantageous to us. Look to our trade with China. We curried our dollars to Canton. and we took the Chinese silks and teas in return, and did Hon. Gentlemen mean to say that our Chi nese trade had not been a most advantageous one to this country ? He denied that the repeal of the corn-laws would have any effect on the precious metals, and concluded by declaring that their aboli tion would not only improve the condition of the country, but prevent what seine Honourable Gentlemen so much feared, an undue impor tation of bullion. Captain HARRIS said, in the month of June last, they divided a united majerity of 254 against 125 against the repeal of the corn-laws, and on that occasion they heard nothing from any Member of the present Government to Indicate so great a change in the corn-laws as now proposed, since they heard something from the Hon. Secretary at War, while he was in Wiltshire; but he attached no importance to what fell from him on that occasion, and certainly did not think that they were to take that as a notice of the proposed change. He would be glad to see any measure introduced which would relieve the population of Ireland, and particularly the lower classes. He would ask the non Gentlemen opposite, whether it was not the wish of every Member at his side of the House, be he Whig, Tory, er Radical, to relieve the distress at present existing in Ireland ? The Govern ment have, much to their credit, taken measures to relieve the dis tress now so prevalent in that country , by ordering in great importa tion: of. flour, but that precaution should have been taken sonic months ago. lie would ask the Government, was it a sufficient argu ment to use for the purpose of removing these laws ? Can such tem porary distress be adduced for one moment in support of the present measure? And the question naturally arises, to Whom were the pre sent state of things doe ? and the answer was, to the Right Hon. Baronet at the bead of her Majesty's Government. He had never entertained any doubt of Lis sincerity, and of his patriotism, and he did not ask him to change his opinions to meet the views of his side of the House, but lie asked him to do so as a Minister of the British Parliament. On the details of that question he was well aware lie could not advance any new proposition on the subject, for he had heard it eloquently debated in that House, and every argument used for and against the measure that great talent could command, and he (Captain Harris) would only bewilder himself by entering at any length into details. (Here the gallant meinber read a statistical account of the trade with Russia, which went to prove, that if it were not altered, there would be a serious derangement in the currency. The Gallant Captain continued, and said that he frequently heard it stated that freo trade gave great development to the commercial classes, but he did not intend to state any objections on that point, although, if they looked to the manufactures of France and the ex ports and imports of this country, he thought the measure would strike the House as one of great injustice in its details.—(llear.) He pledged himself to protection principles when he was returned to that House by his constituents, and he had not heard anything to make him change the opinions which he then expressed with the utmost sincerity.—(Hear, hear ) Mr. MONCKTON MILNES observed that the present was the second occasion on which he had witnessed the great subject of the corn-law come before that House, and as it had been his ob ject during all the discussions which had taken place to give the party who sat opposite the credit, of acting from the best motives, ho would not act differently on that occasion, but he would believe the party with whom he had acted for so many years were likewise influenced by the purest motives. —(Cries of " Hear, bear.") lie did not consider that statesmen were to be judged very harshly for modifying their opinions on the subject of the corn -laws, for they would find that Mr. Ricardo him self, one of the great apostles of free trade, recommended a fixed duty of ten shillings ; and he believed that if the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury told them his candid opinions, he would be found to have experienced some slight change at the very least. It was not for him to say whether a statesman of the experience and ability of the Right Hon. Baronet was conducting the affairs of the country in such a manner as was best calculated to confer a benefit by doing away with what was called monopoly, but he could not but regard the proposed measure as presenting but very insufficient reasons for a deviation from his former opinions.— (Hoar, hear.) He (Mr. Milnes) did consider that the ques tions of the Irish Church and the repeal of the corn-laws, were the two great questions upon which depended the fate of the pre sent Ministry. He had always entertained this opinion, and he felt it now so deeply, that he could not see how he could change it. _ _ He could not understand why a man should sacrifice his conscientious opinions, in order to support a Government upon a particular mea sure. lie, for one, would not do so ; and he should say, that if ever an opportunity offered when the Hon. Baronet might have done good by a different policy, and had thrcwn it away, the present was that opportunity . ; at a time when, under Providence, he had the greatest and grandest opportunities of doing great practical good for the country. He believed that the present Government had done more to reconcile differences between hostile parties than any Government which had preceded it. He also believed that they had accomplished many great acts which Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House per haps desired, but had not tile means to accomplish.—(Hear, hear.) He now saw those means of confidence which had been hitherto afforded to the Right Hon. Baronet by Hon Members on his side of the House utterly lost, and their power utterly destroyed.— ( Hear, heat.) He could not say that he gave the Right lion. Baro net his support cordially and freely. He did it simply because it was the only course which he could conscientiously pursue. Ile would go back to the year 1841. lie then represented to his consti tuents that he would do all in his power to place the Bight Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Government, for the purpose of enabling him to effect a settlement of the corn-laws. At that time there were provincial Chancellors of the Exchequer, and he (Mr. M lines) brought before the Right Hon. Baronet a proposal for changing the duty on corn, which was considerably simpler and lower than that which the Right Baronet then proposed, and therefore, however much he might regret separating from his friends on this question, he felt bound to give it his support. Hon. 'Gentlemen on his side the House had asserted that their party was broken up by the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet; but the array of talent and unanimity which they had manifested showed that that assertion was without foundation Ho could not give his assent to the doctrines of the agriculturists. Ile had eve' regarded the con-laws as of mere accidental and temporary opera tion. He had never seen anything else in it, but as the mere means— perhaps the useful means—of educating the agriculturist of this country so as to enable him to compete with the foreigner.—(Hcar, hear.) And when he saw at that moment that that end was so far accomplished—when he looked at what he might call the chemical agricultural changes which had lately developed themselves, seeing the increased improvement with respect to tile draining, and all those other ad vantages which had so rapidly developed themselves, he did feel that it was but just to say, that the corn-laws should be changed. Ile had always been anxious to modify the present system, but he could never disabuse himself of the idea that a total repeal of the corn-laws would he attended with a great displacement of pro perty. But, nevertheless, he could pursue no other course of con duct, in reference to the measure, than that which he had ever ob served. The produce of America had been alluded to by several Hon. Geutle.nen, but corn might be flourishing in the valley of the Mississippi and the people of England not be able to procure it. It these changes should take place suddenly, he had no doubt but great suffering would be occasioned. The difference in price in com petition between the English and foreign fanner should be distri buted somewhere, between the landlord, the tenant, and the la bourer. It was contended that a large proportion would fall upon the labourer, but he did not believe that such would be the fact.—(Hear.) The worst that could happen would be that the labourer would be left where he now was.—(Hear, hear.) Ile had somehow or other imbibed the notion that there was far more equality on the subject of wages between the labourers of England and those of the Continent, than is generally supposed.—(Hear, hear.) There was something in the question, of which political economy could hardly take account. Wages depend in a great measure upon the physical capabilities of the labourer. He had heard that gentle men employed upon the continental railways were ready to give half as much again to the English labourer as to the French, provided they will not get drunk.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Compare the Frenchman, with his nightcap en, and stopping every five mi. nutes to speak —compare such conduct with the hard, steady work of the English labourer. We need not fear competition in this respect. The labourers would not be the immediate sufferers in this case. He considered that the labourers derived advantage from their contiguity to the large manufacturing districts.— (Hear, hear.) They tended to raise the price of labour, not only in their own neighbourhood, but also throughout the whole country. The tenant-farmers, he believed, would come worst off by the pro- ~ posed alterations. At present they were, by the consolidation farms and other causes, subjected to a great many evils, and these would be aggravated by tie repeal of the laws relative to agricultural protection. Ile believed that the land was not at present let at its due value, for if it were higher, he considered that the consequence of the abolition of protection would be more seriously felt. The landlords would, in the language of the Right Hon. Baronet be exposed to the temptation of becoming mere manufacturers of food.—(Hear, hear.) That was a point on which he could not change, or his mind acquire additional experi once. The landlords were exposed to a very great temptation which he believed they would overcome ; but to which they ought not to have been exposed. He believed they would resist that temptation. They would consent to make some sacrifice of power and convenience rather than lay the burden on those who were dependent upon them. To do that, to overcome that temporary difficulty, they must exchange their present splendid benevolence for another and a more useful class, and must consent to employ more protective means. Their wealth was considerable. The proof of that was, that a great portion of it was spent in amusement and accomplish e m o entt en l i, they were ready to make the sacrifice that was demmd as d soe f ia l t t ions all would go well. It was possible that rna , ny r eaiiy civil ad vantages in their possess , . might be interfered with. Let n th a e nd lai i i tl i t lo he d no n; • 'lllll their prosperous condition, a tlTe t y ain mig ti l ' i e t lose something, they would shortly and permanence, or the ed fluctuatinge mainthefergtrueanets boufltwasrkgrseonftleetmileptti.e,e.ace K BANKS IN SCOTLAND AND IRELAND. Oy o t i t , 7 , i r n - ot T ion of Lord INGESTRE, the debate was adjourned. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the regulation of Joint-Stock Banks in Scotland and Ireland. _ _ _ _ _ The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'clock. COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen will hold a Privy Council to-morrow (Wednesday), at Buckingham Palace. The Council Is appointed at three o'clock in the afternoon. Her Majesty and Prince Albert took their accustomed early walk yesterday, in the royal gardens. His Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by Colonel Bowles and Colonel Wylde, visited Captain Siborne's Waterloo Models, at th e Egyptian Hall, yesterday. The visit was quite private, the models having been closed to the public on Saturday. Ills Royal Highness expressed much pleasure in examining those historical works, and examined them minutely. Their Royal Highnesses the Princess Royal and the Princess Alice Pala were taken airings yesterday, .i n the royal gardens of Buckingham ce. The Queen and Prince Albert honoured the performance of the French plays with their presence yesterday evening. The Royal suite consisted of the Tiscountess Canning, Hon. Miss Stanley, Earl of Warwick, Colonel Arbuthnot, and Colonel Wylde. Her Roy-al Highness the Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Fanny Howard and Sit' George Cooper, Bart., also honoured the performance with their presence. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, attended by Major Stephens, presided yesterday-evening at the German Hospital dinner. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited her Royal High ness the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday, at Gloucester House. Summonses were issued yesterday morning to the Cabinet Minis. ters to attend a Council, at half-past two o'clock, at the Foreign office. The Ministers who assembled were Sir Robert Peel, the, Duke of Wellington, the Lord Chancellor, the Duke of Buceleueh, the Earl of lladdington, the Earl of Aberdeen, Sir 4,1115il Graham, Mr. Sec. - re. tary Gladstone, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Ee..11 Of Ellen borough, the Earl of Ripon, Lord Granville SonieTset, the Earl of Dalhousie, the Right Mon. Sidney Herbert, and the Earl St. Germans. The Council sat two hours, • Mr. Murphy, the Mexican 1114Lsier, transacted business yesterday at the Foreign-office, Mr. Cunard 444 an interview with the Chancellor of the Exche quer yesterday at his official residence in Downing-street. Dispatches from the Governor of Hong-Kong were received yes terday at the Colonial-office.. Viscount Jocelyn had an interview with Sir Robert Peel yesterday. The French Plays were last evening most brilliantly attended on the occasion of the debut of Mona. Felix. There were present the Queen and Prince Albert, attended by Viscountess Can ning, the Honourable Miss Stanley, the Earl of Warwick, Colonel Arbuthnot, and Colonel Wylde; her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Fanny Howard and Sir George Cowper ; her Royal highness th e D uc h ess of Cambridge, attended by the 1 1"aroWl Ahlefeldt and Mr. St. John Mildmay; the Marchioness of Ailesbury, the French Ambassador, Lord Mallon, the Baroness llrunnow, the Austrian Ambassador a nd the Countess Dietrichstein, the Earl and Countess Bruce, Lady snot the Misses Burgoyne, Honourable Mrs. Leicester Stanhope, and Lady Shelley, Lady Jodrell, Baron Koller, Count Ktelmausegge, Sir Henry Webb, Sir J, U. Lowther, the Honourable Janie% Macdonald. &c., S U N 11'14' 11,7-111° 4- 4 THE VICTORY 1N \ l- 0 OF FICIAL DISPATCH •\, "GAZETTE EXTRA ORDINARIP " 41411: B F. 23, 1846. A dispatch, from whi c h \ t he IA foll OAßD owing is an EB extract, has been this day received at the East India House : FROM THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL OF INDIA TO THE SEGRE 7 COMMITTEE OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY, DATED CAMP, FEROZEPORE, DEC. 31, 1845. (Extract.) The Seikh army, in large numbers, commenced crossing the Sutlej on the 11th, and, after investing Ferozepore on one side, took up an entrenched position at the village of Ferozeshah, about ten miles in advance of Ferezepore, and about the same distance from the village of Moodkee. In this camp the enemy had placed 108 pieces of cannon, some of large calibre, with a force exceeding 50,000 men, for the purpose of intercepting the approach of the British force moving up from Umballa, to the relief ef Ferozepore, which had been thus treacherously attacked, without pro vocation or declaration of hostilities. I had ordered, on the Bth instant, that portion of our army posted at Umballa for defensive purposes, to move up on the 11th ; and, after a rapid march of 150 miles, it reached Moodkee on the 18th, where, on the evening of the same day, it repulsed an attack of the Seikh army, and captured 17 guns. On the followins , day the army was concentrated at Moodkee, and, on the 2rst, moved by its left on Feroze pore ; and having on the march formed its junction at half past one o'clock with 5,000 men and 21 guns, under Major- General Sir John Littler, which had moved from Ferozepore that morning, the Commander-in-Chief the army in order of battle, and attacked the enemy's entrenched camp, and on that evening and the following morning, captured seventy pieces of artillery, taking possession of the enemy's camp, wits large quantities of ammunition and warlike stores. These successful and energetic operations have been fol lowed by the retreat of the Seikh army to the other side of the Sutlej ; the British army being now encamped between' Ferozepore and the fords of the Sutlej. You will not fail to observe that these important and bril liant successes have been achieved by that portion ofeur army posted at and in advance of Umballa for defensive purposes, and that our forces from Meerut and other stations from the rear, ordered to move up at the same time, are in reserve, and will reach this neighbourhood between the sth and the 9th of January. I have the honour to inclose two reports from the Com mander-in-Chief, detailing the admirable manner in which importantceu withrt duti es ehfe Directors lirie h acj a te re e - srtey b e, e sf en t performed heEast ; and Government, Ind iNavi Company,llh lam i con vincedghl 2 pi concurrenceth ese t i e p in r - e c ci i a d t e e f, t a h n e d em by in t e h n e t nseffirse-eicra.es nrnenn.dneermedmibzietnheedCeoffimemeras,iidaenrd soldiers of the Indian army. The Commander-in-Chief has successfully accomplished every object I had directed him to 'effect for the relief of Ferozepore, and the protection of these British States. No ac cident or failure has occurred during the complicated opera tions of a combined movement ; and our army, whether for defence or attack, has shown, as heretofore, that its power is irresistible. FROM GENERAL SIR HUGH GOUGH, BART., 5.C.8., THE COM MANDER-IN-CHIEF OF THE ARMY IN INDIA, TO THE GOVERNOR GENERAL OF INDIA. Head-quarters, Army of the Sutlej, Camp, Moodkee, Dec. 19, 1845. Right Hon. Sir,—lt would be a superfluous form in me to address to you a narrative of the campaign which has opened against the Seikhs, and the successful action of yesterday, since you have in person shared the fatigues and dangers of our army, and witnessed its efforts and privations, but that my position at its head renders this my duty ; and it is necessary, from that position, I should place these events en record, for the information of all Europe as well as of all India. You, Sir, know, but others have to be told, that the sudden and unprovoked aggression of the Seikhs, by crossing the Sutlej with the great proportion of their army, with the avowed intention of attacking Ferozepore in time of profound peace, rendered indispensable, on our side, a series of difficult combinations for the protection of our frontier station, so unjustifiably and so unexpectedly menaced. From the advanced and salient situation of Ferozepore, and its vicinity to the Seikh capital, its defence against a sudden attack became a difficult operation. It was always possible for the Seikh Government to throw a formidable force upon it before one sufficientiy numerous could on our side be collected to support it : but when, upon the 11th instant, it became known at Umballa, where I had esta blished my head-quarters, that this invasion had actually taken place, the efforts to repel it followed each other in quick succession;* notwithstanding I had the fullest con fidence in Major General Sir John Littler, commanding at Ferozepore, and in the devotedness and gallantry of the troops occupying it. The troops from the different stations in the Sirhind division were directed to move by forced marches upon Busseean, where, by a most judicious arrangement, you had directed supplies to be collected, within a wonderfully short space of time. _ The main portion of the force at Loodiana was with drawn, and a garrison thrown into the little fortress there. From this central position, already alluded to, both Loodi ana and Ferozepore could be supported, and the safety of both places might be considered to be brought, in some mea sure, within the scope of the contingencies of a general action to be fought for their relief. All this is soon related ; but most harassing have been the marches of the troops in completing this concentration. When their march had been further prolonged to this place, they had moved over a dis tance of upwards of 150 miles in six days, along roads of heavy sand; their perpetual labour allowing them scarcely time to cook their food, even when they received it, and hardly an hour for repose, before they were called upon for renewed exertion. When our leading corps reached Wudnee, a small jaghir» of the late Maharaja Shere Singh, its garrison shut the gates of the fort against them ; and, as our battering guns were far in the rear, it was determined to reserve it for future chastisement, and we remained content with compelling the village to furnish supplies (it could, however, provide little, except for our overworked cattle), under pain of enduring a cannonade and assault ; this it did without the necessity of firing s shot. When we reached Wudnee, it was evident that the forc e before Ferozepore felt the influence of our movements, as we heard that a very large portion of that force had been de ached to oppose our further advance ; their feeling parties retired on the morning of the 18th before our cavalry picquets, near the village and fort of Moodkee. Soon after mid-day, the division under Major-General Sir Barry Smith, a brigade of that under Major-General Sir J. M'Caskill, and another of that under Major-General Gilbert, with five troops of horse artillery, and two light field bat teries, ander Lieutenant-Colonel Brooke, of the Horse Artil lery (brigadier in command of the artillery force), and the cavalry division, consisting of her Majesty's 3d Light Dra loons, the body guard, 4th and sth Light Cavalry, an d 9 t h rregular Cavalry, took up their encamping ground in front of Moodkee. The troops were in a state of great exhaustion, principally from the want of water, which was not procurable on the road, when, about three P.N., information was received that the Seikh army was advancing ; and the troops had scarcely time to get under arms, and more to their positions, when, the fact v.as ascertained. I immediately pushed forward the horse artillery and cavalry, directing,the infantry, accompanied by the kid bat teries, to move forward in support. We had not proceeded beyound two miles when we found the enemy in position. They were said to consist of from 15,000 to 20,000 infantry, about the same force of cavalry, and forty guns. They evi dently had either just taken up their position, or were ad. vancing in order of battle against us. To resist their attack, and to cover the formation of the infantry, I advanced the cavalry under Brigadiers White, Gough, and Mactier, rapidly to the front, in columns of squadrons, and occupied the plain. They were speedily for lowed by the five troops of horse artillery, under Brigadier Brooke, who took up a forward position, having the cavalry then on his flanks. The country is a dead flat, covered at short intervals with a low, but, in some places, thick, jhow jungle, and dotted with sandy hillocks. The enemy screened their infantry and artillery behind this jungle, and such undulations as the ground afforded; and, whilst our twelve battalions formed from echellon of brigades into line, opened avey se vere cannnonade upon our advancing troops , which as soon joined by t e wo light v ß i r g ig or a o d us ier ly ß r r e o p o l k ie e l to whichby the w battery of horse artillery under field batteries. The rapid and well-directed fire of our asv li t oul va a s dv n a e n c eing the artillery too near to the ,bungle, I artillery appear e e ss d a s u o , on to to co p m ar p a l l e y t s e e o th u a r t iz o d f ai t l la tr e y en d e i m sp y o ' s ; it a ion nd s , directed the cavalry under Brigadiers White and Gough to make a flank movement on the enemy's left, with a view of threatening and turning that flank, if possible. With praiup. woi thy gallantly, the 3d Light Dragoons, with the 2d brigade of cavalry, consisting of the body (ruard and sth, Light Cavalry, with a portion of th e 4th ' Lancers, turned the left of the Seikh army, and, sweeping along the whole rear of its infantry and guns, silenced for a time the latter. and put their numerous cavalry to Right. Whilst this ma ment was taking place on the enemy s left, I directed the re mainder of the 4th Lancers; the 9th Irregular Cavalry, under Brigadier Mactier, with a light field battery, to threaten their right. This manoeuvre was also successful. Had sot the: infantry and guns of the enemy been screened by the jungle,. these brilliant charges of the cavalry would have been pro. ductive of greater effect. When the infantry advanced to the attack, Brigadier Brooke rapidly pushed on his horse artillery close to the jungle, and the cannonade was resumed on both sides. The infantry, under Major •Generals Sir Harry Swith, Gilbert, and Sir John M'Caskill, attacked in echellon of lines the enemy's infantry, almost invisible anaontest wood and the ap proaching darkness of night. The opposition of the enemy was such as might have been expeeted from troops who had everything at stake, and who tart long vaunted of being irre— sistible. Their ample any' xtended line, from their great superiority of numbzes, far e outflanked ours ; but this was counteracted by the flank movements of our cavalry. The attack of the infantry now commenced; and the roll of fire from this powerful arm soon convinced the Seikh army that they had met with a foe they little expected ; and their whole force was driven from position after position with great. slaughter, and the loss of 17 pieces of artillery, some of them, of heavy calibre; our infantry, using that never-failing wee!. pon, the bayonet, whenever the enemy stood. Night manly saved them from worse dis as t er , f or thi s stout conWxt w as maintained during an hour and a half of dim starliroint, amidst a cloud of dust f rom th e san d y p l a i n, which ye t more ob scured every object. I regret to say, this gallant and antenatal attack was of tended with considerable loss; Ile force bivouacked on the field for some hours, and Only ' re t urned to its encam pment after ascertaining that it no enemy before it, an that night prevented the possibility of a regular advance In pur suit, I beg to cngratulate you, Right Honourable Sir , on this c first defeatour invaders by the army I have the honour to Command. The perseverance by which success was attained you personally witnessed; and the troops, I am sure, felt exposedprotid ofi the iim s self-devotio n . danger h ger wh ich amongsttheir G t o h v e e m. rn or p e b n ef e o r re al advance the n a: said that our loss has been sever e : it could not be es teemed small if we had no other to reco rd, when I mentio n that , to wards the conclusion of the a ff a ir, Ma j or. Gene ral Sir Robert ' Sale, to whom India and England are so much indebted, had his left thigh shattered by a grape shot, and yßanoit h Bolton of h i wound has since proved mortal. Sir John M'Caskill, an 01d . and valued officer, who has done his country much g ood servo vice, division,vice , rece a h n 'e d d o ball immediatelythrough p his i r expired. chest, on Brigadiers Mactier, and Lieutenant-Colonels Banbury and Byrne, and other valuable officers, are amongst the wounded. These losses our country and the service will deplore, but not con, cider unavailing, when Ferozepore shall be rescued from ttse invader, and the insult to our territory and rule fitly punished. I have every reason to b e proud of, and gratified with, theexertions of the whole of the officers and troops of this army en this arduous occasion of the gene ra l s of divisdiF:n' tl2 Lzisit :130,and e general, personal with divis ions , the b rigadie r s the conduct o f tredsedviesposral arms,,, brigade stag and ti`,4 * ►Sie in orig.