The Sun. — London, England, 1823-02-27 00:00:00

1 :,. ~ 'aeraeti in the establishment of their liberties. Look where a' column principle prevailed, such as in the presetit Corn Law —look apt Poland--look at France during the Revolution, when the aty was " Guerre - aux Chateaux"--look at this, and see where a principle of division exists, if it be no; necessary at once to correct it, and avert those evils which have ruined others. Looking at this—looking at the near approach of that period when Reform must come—he thought it a moment of i4l others when no principle should be introduced of hostility or jealousy amongst the people and those above them. If this principle once set in, it would be morally impossible to pre vent its growth. The policy now was, to augment and in. crease' the manufactures, on whose comfort, as well as on that of the landed interest, so much of the riches and real wealth of a country depended. We should, of all things, avoid all high taxation ; and no high taxation was more ruinous than a high price of corn. We should avoid acting on any principle .1)y which capital would be withdrawn from us. If we had be fore ill-advisedly acted on such a principle, we should not now be the admiration and the light of the word as we are. Look -at the state of Italy, where no capital was employed. There, sit every tern, you have splendid marks of her former greatness, and at the same tithe the strongest living monuments of her wretchedness and misery— • . 4 —. Not far remov'd the date, When commerce proudly flourish'il - through the state : At her command the palace learn'd to rise, Again the long-fall'n columns sought the skies : The canvas glow'd beyond e'en Nature warm ; The pregnant quarry teeni'd with human form ; Till, more unsteady than the southern gale, Commerce on other shores display'd hex sail ; While nought remain'd of all that riches gave, But towns unmann'd, and ler& without a slave : And late themetion found, with fruitless skill, Its former strength was but plethoric ill." Look at her condition, thus so well described by the Poet, and .take care that by acting on mistaken principle you do not one day or other (though it may be very distant) resemble her con dition. The Bight Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellot of the Exchetpter) had told them of the flourishing state of the Re venue, in consequence of the increasing comforts of the people. —(Hear, heath—But if any principle such as he alluded to ,were permitted to enter into our laws, that Right Hon. Gentle . - Man would have a very different exposé to offer to the House. The alteration which he should propose in the law would be to . lower gra.doally the import price, now at 70s. a quarter, by 2s. ouarter each year, until the import price should come down to bes. In this manner we should gradually be enabled to compete with the foreign grower. The landed-interest had strcng claims on the House on account of the Land Tax, the l'oors.rates, and. the heavy charge which the maintenance of the Clergy created on their property. The interests of agriculture did not demand that the duties on importation shoula be heatry or carried to a very great height. To increase it greatly would be to entail on Government great responsibilities, and considerable danger of disgust in the minds of the people, who were always ..alive to the apprehension of scarcity or famine in a greater or less deree. No Government would dare to force such stet unpopular measure. The only - substitute for this ar tanjgement now proposed would be the doctrine of averages, which he could not consider equally advantageous as that pro posed. Ile considered that, to secure the farmer, a fair remu nerating price, the duty on Foreign corn should be only equiva lent to bring it into this market at fitis. a quarter, which would , keep down the too great influx of corn through over abundance. It was difficult so to lay on a tax, and arrange the enacting law SO that the artificial price should cease at a stated moment, He thought a duty of 12s. per quarter would be equivalent to a pro. tection, considering the price which the grain must cost the met. . chant importing it Into this country, and the charges of freight with the incidental loss and expences arising from its shipment. Except to such persons as were apt to take an exaggerated view of the supposed cheapness at which corn could be purchised in _Poland and7the interior of Europe, it would appear that . the 4.;nglisit grower would be thus enabled to compete with the foreign grower in this market. Many intelligent persons whom he had consulted thought it nut possible to bring foreign coin to be sold here at less than 6114. per quarter,.and such cer tainly, was the impression on his mind. The country blentle • men and Agriculturists would be content, lie believed, with this atrang,etnent of price ; if they could be only satisfied and mut ed dist it might, be considered a permanent arrangement. Hay lag steted ao much of the outline of his Bill, he should content Liaised(' without going further into the subject, reserving to him self, with the permission of the House, a right to reply to any itoprtarit observation which might fall from any — lion. Mem betMeer !)--He then moved' fur leave to bring in a Bill to . an the Corn Laws. 'Mr. CLIRAVEN said, lie loid been particularly anxious to cetth the speaker's eye, in ordex to be the first to protest against the.impropriety, inconvenitlice, and danger, which would arise .frso , the agitation of this question at the present moment..-. Tie p 4 .id trihtiLe u, the memory of that great Statesman, nave no. n).ir.•.,, itose), which, in his mind, was due to his csi y.ls and careful consideration of the difficulty of this very ;risportallt titttstion—the Corn Laws of this country. However in-.'. (filter on some other points with that Gentleman, lie contessstl he agreed with hint on the subject of the corn.trade, 1- a tiesever widely the lion. Member thr Bridgenorth might be . disposed to denart in his principles from that Right Hon. Gen , tiernan's theory. He could not but avow, that he considered • the Corn Laws an unwise measure. But he did not wish to tree sliniaters.propelled by any ill-timed effort like the present to iii!opt any hasty measure of relief.—( Hear ! from the Ministerial 1 kneels. s.;--After fter alluding to the statement of his opinion, by the lee; sir. Rose that the whole North of Europe could not spare enough of surplus corn from its own supply, to create a supply for Ile total consumption of Great Britain for six months, he Observed, that whilst labourers, manufacturers, and artisans were to be, as they met be fed, provisions must always affect the price of labour., teal that if tbatlabour were to becorne consider ably higher, it would be a calamity much to be deplor'ed. flow, awn, he would ask, wits the remunerating price of labour to be kept down witlqsit rubbing the poor man of his fair share of the ernoymeras tif elite of toil I' lie knew of no way except by denreosing our taxes ; he ivas happy to think thaltheineens now pusuing by Administration were likely to attain the desired rfhlect °f lowering the price or expences of cultivation which, was the in-and desideratum. The period of the greatest possible epplication of capital to agriculture was in the year 1814, when it was at 22,4. to a quarter of wheat, whereas now it was not above 17a. tir 18s. which would make about a million of quarters • almitilly different in the supply of corn railed for eonsump tit*, or abinit as much as was now imported into this country Ogre Ireland. He did not see any great danger in opening the ports under certain matured regulations. But he could not • eta:At - diet a duty of' even. 20s. a quarter would be a sufficient or generally approved protection to the agricolittritte, because, when the, ayekuliurist wanted it, it was nustt. likely he would nut have it, fie was satisfied that nothing c9uld be better qua. litied to meet the difficulties of the agriculturists than them pr doefs Wit down its a basis fur the reduction of taxation in the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer oa a former By the proposed reduction of 2,0410,00)/. of taxes, there would twertie certainly it material advantage to the great capitalists; t;':;,t it was of little eonserittence to the genenil crisis of agricultu ralists, who had already taken their stand, rind reduced their es tabliahnient so es not to be greatly benefited by the proposed re eduction of assessed and other taxes. The great reduction in tax. anon ought rsi be directed to relieve the lower and middle orders, the cottager» end labourer*. These persons paid still enor mously foe their five windows, their :candles, and soap, whilst thistle ill Mont nepulous places and towns were testi burthened by time intooehions. lie expected little trout the proposed reduc. tine of the Leather Tax it his lion, F'riend's motion should be enectessful. It Iv3S remarkable that in the expos 6 of the Right jinn. Gent. it app,;:nreil no attempt was to be.tnatle to lower the' 4 4 ticg on With, time of the effects or which wail that our light .hods were now generally . spplied to the cultivation of wheat. '('hues the public found it necessary to relinquish the idea of gtv wing their own balky, in order to brew themselves a whole. sortie and sober beverage, whilst metals and health had gradually been hnpared by the substitution of Hpiii ttiou liquors for home brewed rile and beer.. It was certain that the corn-grower had suffeletf much from the very great importation in Ma, w h en there . was, it WAS supposed, three months' supply of :grain brought ion) this country from. foreign markets. Such, „however, was not our condition at ,pre*ent ; nor was there the some imperious-necessity for legislating to meet the evil._ He ticprocetsee any attempt at snaking any alteration at this mo ment. Although he should oppose the lutll, he did not say he should tape theaense of the Ifoitte upon it.. , Certainly he must . may that hi: wish•stlit ,era withdrawn until a more fit opportunity' pre.s,:ated itself for introducing an impoved system. At pre_ sent the agitation of the question at. all must he 'dangerous, and • at all events impolitic in the Im:sweeten: of agricultural affairs, whiCh were already about to he relieved to a certuiti extent by die Ri g ht Hon, Gentleman. Every thing ought to be done to ob tain a remission of taxes which preas on the middle and lower order of agri::ttlturisti, t as provide adequate remuneration for labour, Isesen the poor rates, and enable the greater and small larmer ts: go oni upon a lees expensive scale of agrieultural outgoing . arid expenditure. Let the Right Hon. Gentleman Jake off' the candle tax, which now made to the pear cottager ..such a diftteence in this article, that instead of pitying NA per Th. fur catie,les, he now paid 10d, This would prove a saving of at least Ifie, to each vaunter. An additionel B*. a year ought. : to be taken Off his window duty. If in addition to this 18*. a . year,_ the to was tah . en ofrintilt, so as to give hint at a cheap rate little-Wholeseirie beer, such a relief, he wait siitislied„ would so decrease their burthens, that ip a very shine period million deem. pt out of cultivation Would be reetortal to productive. 'cultivation, thus inceeasing the 'littoral weans and wraith of ilia station. As now emu& be thought, if it were possiblue .live milliousioftexes ought to be'appropeiated to the immediate. 'raid of the agriculturists. Whatever might be grid in or out of: ;doers of iteensded spolietion of individuals, he saw that there prevailed a strong feeling of displeasure at the fact, that one class of property, namely, the funds, was not compelled to sus tain its share of taxation or contribution• to the State. If the House did not voluntarily do something in redressing this grievance, he felt the table of the House would be so crowded with petitions that the Government of the Country would be compelled to take some steps to make funded property pay its fair share of contributiow to the State, as it was in common justice bound to do. Such at least had been the opinion of those best informed on the subject, as Might be inferred from the opinion pronounced by the Jud g es incidentally in a well recol lected ante. Begging pardon of the House for so long detaining them in expressing sentiments, he was desirous to be the first to put on record, with a view to persuade the Hon. Member to withdraw his motion, he should sit down again pressing that suggestion on his attention. Air. BENET'r (of Wiltshire) expressed his decided opposi tion to the measure now proposed by the Hon. Member for Bridgenorth (Mr. Whitmore.) Out Corn Trade was best pro tected at that period when we had a bounty on exported and a duty on imported corn. It had been well observed by Adam Smith, and the opinion was eubsequently supported by Air. Mal thus, " that all States which depend upon others for anyportion of their food, can have only an ephemeral existence.' The Hon. Member entered into a calculation, the object of which was to thew the average pressure of taxation upon agriculture, but the occasional dropping of his voice rendered him frequently Inaudible in the gallery.. We understood him to state that the taxation upon agriculturists amounted to 67 per cent. His object was to reduce taxation, and thereby reduce the price of agricul tural produce. This, he maintained, could be done, and to a far greater extent than many Gentlemen seemed to be aware of. The rate per cent. of relief afforded to the farmer by any reduction of taxation, might, perhaps, be considered, so trifling as to be unworthy of consideration. But Gentlemen should consider that every saving, however trifling, told in the ag,gregate. If no bal ance remained in the hands of the farmer from the sale of his produce, after defraying the expence of cultivation, &c. then there could be no rent. The lion. Gentleman then went on to chew that the reductions in the malt, salt, leather, agricultural horse, and other taxes, amounted to 18 per cent. out of the 67 per cent. under which that interest alone had been labouring. This chewed what beneficial effects,were to be derived from a persee vcring reduction of taxation. In order to prove that the depre ciation of prices did not arise front an importation of corn he observed that, for 64 years of the last century, wheat was. at 32i. At that period our exports of corn exceeded our imports, there being a duty on the one and a bounty on the other. In 1793, when our imports increased, wheat ense:lii 455, per qr. Here was a rise of 13s. per quarter, notwithstanding that the import of the commodity had increased: The great pressure under which agriculture laboured, was the immense taxation with which they were borne down ; in addition to this, they had the charge of the Poor's Rate. For, the price :Of labour had fallen inproportion to the reduction of the price of wheat (to prove which the Hon. Member entered into a variety of cal culations) so that the burthens of the farmer increased as his re sources diminished.---(Hear!)--The farmer might receive a certain extent of relief from the effect of low prices, by a reduc tion of his rent, but he could receive no relief from the injuries sustained , in consequence of the late alteration in the cur rency, except through the interference of that House. Ile did not wish to interfere improperly with the right of the fund holder. but he contended that the landholder was as much entitled to protection against ruin and beggary as the fund holder could be.--(Hear !)_—But he again repeated, that the only protection, the only effectual relief to be afforded to either must he by means of a reduction of taxation, not only directly. but indirectly. Many Gentlemen - immagined that they would directly derive great advantages from a reduction of certain taxes, while they overlooked the much greater advantages to be derived indirectly from a reduction of others. One Gen tlemen might say, " Oh, I shall save 301. by a reduction of window tax, whereas, my housekeeper tells me that a reduction of the salt tax would not make a difference of more than Al. or 101. a year.". Whereas, in point of fact, the salt tax, if re duced, would make, directly or indirectly, a saving of from ont/. to 8001. to that individual. He also wished for the aboli tion of the taxes on leather, beer, soap, and candles, by which an indirect relief to a great extent would be afforded to the farmer. The Honourable Member, in conclusion, expressed a hope that the House would not, under existing circum stances, e its assent to any alteration in the present Corn lift WS...* h ear!) Mr. VI ODEHOUSE was disposed to give the Hon. Mem ber for 13ridgenorth entire credit for the sincerity of his motives. The country was much indebted to him for the able state-' went he' bad just made, and the lights he had thrown upon this difficult subject--clearly the result Of much labour and at tention. 'rlie douse could not but be surprised at the view in which this question was now presented. It was not many weeks ago that the apprehended danger was supposed to.pro ceed front surfeit—now the fears were that we should experience all the inconveniences of scarcity. That the present Corn Laws were 'very imperfect could not be denied, but in his (Mr. W.'s) opinion, the present proposition was not calculated to amend them. He was not a friendao high prices; he did not think them either desirable or practicable. In proof of this, he referred to a conversation he had sometime ago with the present President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Iluskiesont, when he said that. if he made 64 the maximum of protect. ing duties, such a proposition should have his (Mr. W.'s) support ; and if the late Committee 'upon Agricultural Dis tress came to a resolution of that - neture, he should never have objeCted to their Report. The lion., Member for Bridgenorth had attributed all the fluctuation in prices of corn to the opee ration of the Import Duties: This was not the fact ; for by a calculation made by Mr. Malthus, it appeared the greatest fluc tuations took place from 1792 to 1805, although the high Im port Duties did not come into full operation until the issuingof the Berlin and Milan Decrees; The lion. Member also re. leered to an extract from die Eton Register, by which It ap. peered the years preceding the laying on of high Import Du ties were as productive of arbitrary fluctuations in the price of. corn as any that succeeded. Upon this subject he thought the Agricultural Report of 1821 was not sufficiently explicit. Ile had great respect for those who were most active in drawing up that Report, but he protested against the conclusions to which the Committee had come, for several reasons, one of these was, that they did not take sufficient notice of the particular dis tresses of which the several petitioners to the House complained, inasmuch as they reported that the commerce of the country was free from restrictions of any kind. Another was, that the Re port glanced too lightly at the consequences of the alteration whiclehad been made in the 'value of money, a subject to which he (Mr. W.) attributed the whole distress of the country. It was also objectionable, as laying down the principle that, the protecting duties on corn should not exceed ten or twelve shil lings a quarter. This was a duty too low to protect the English farmer. When an attempt wag made to correct this by a pm position of the Hon. Member for the Queen's County, for fix ing the maximum at 63, it was opposed on the ground of its giving too great a monopoly to the English fanner. The third position taken up by the Hon Member was, that the quantity of corn imported was greatly affected by the operation of the high import-duties. In refutation, of this, he (Mr. W.) referred to •the evidence taken before the Agricultural Committee. It was there stated by Mr. George &Ott, than whom there was no better authority, that the supply of corn from abroad wits al. ways governed not by the importation of duties, but by the this mantel for it. And to show that its price was not enhanced by the operation of the duties, Mr. Scent stated that, in 1789 he pur chased .for Government it large quantity of corn in the Baltic, which was delivered here at 40 shillings. In thesaine year, too, the Board of Trade reported that the quantity , of foreign corn upon the western coasts was en great, that the English farmer was quite unable to find a market at any price. So much then in answer to his assertion that, during the operation of the high duties, the importation of corn wits greatly limited. It was the opinion of Mr. Webb Hall, and subsequently of' Par. Lenient, that the quantity of corn imported was not affected by port duties, however high they were. For all these reasons, he hoped the lion. Member would persist in his intention of withdrawing this motion. Mr. HUSRISSON said he 'should not trouble the House 'tfien - wit not that the Member for Norfolk who spoke last made some allusion to him. He fully coinsided in the wish expressed by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Wodelrouse) thatahey might have a speedy deliverance from this debate. Ile, (Mr. 11.) made no complaint of the Report of the Cotninittee of 1021. What he complained of was, that the Report had been ascribed to him - singiy, and not, as it ought to have been, to they/hole body of the Committee.-..(Hear!).—Many alterations were made in it Contrary to his wishes. Ile would not follow - the desultory speeches made mum the present question, nor examine the va nous and contradictory plane of relief proposed by different lion. Gentlemen. It was enough for him to say that, to re move the burthens Which now pressed upon agriculture, they were enabled fortunetely to remove taxes to a Urge amount.— (Hear !).-When the Member for Cumberland (Mr. (urwen) expressed a desire for the removal of two particuler taxes, he was not elute borne our by the calculations on which he grounded 'the reasonableness of the tneasure. The Hon. Member said Ithat every poor family consumed 401bs. of candles in the year, and that therefore by a repeal of the CiMdie Tax each family would be relieved to the amount of 1 OA. The duty on candles was only one penny in the pound. Ile was therefore at a loss to know how the lion. Member drew his conclusion that the relief would he to the extent of 10s., particularly when it WAS taken into consideration that the consumer seldom derived int mediate benefit from the repeal of any tax of tine kind. He need only refer for proof of this to the repeal of the Leather Tap:.---(iliac!)---The flotiourab le Member was not more fortunate with reepect to the, Window. Tax. The cottages of farming labourers, unless they had. more than six windows, which he believed was seldom or never the case, paid no Win dOw Tux at all. That the Candle Tax did not press very heavily was sufficiently proved _by • the increase of consumption, Ile timid not clearly understand upon what calculations the Mem ber for Wiltshire (Mr. Benett) estimated the relief to agricul ture, arising from the repeal of taxes at IQ/. per cent, This, however, he would say, that the agriculturist had no claim to compensation proportioned to the general amount of taxation. All those taxes referred to by the Member for Bristol (Mr. Bright we believe) applied equally to the artisan and the agri culturist. If they could be removed so much the better ; -but they were borne not by agriculturists .alone. As to the duties on cloth, and other articles of consumption exported, they 'were paid by the consumer abroad, and the consumers at home it was clear. had an advantage to that amount. Ile did enet understand the views of Hon. Members, as to what they considered a proper system of Corn Liws. They did not profess themselves friends to high protecting duties, but at the same time would introduce such regulations as would preclude the impor tation corn. —ear !)—lle agreed that the discussionnf a sin le b of this subject of corn. —( Bear was of the highest importance, what ever might be the result; but he could not admit that the present was a proper time for entering into it, on account of the great difference of opinion that existed as to the cource it would be most wise to follow. While such a difference prevailed both in and out of doors, it was impossile that any proposed altera tion could meet with an impartial consideration. n hen so many burthens pressed upon agriculture, it was most desirable that no change should be attempted that might have the effect of throwing new difficulties in the way of a satisfactory ar rangement. The , alteration proposed might, perhaps, have beneficial effects if the parties interested were not likely to draw very opposite conclusions upon it. By agreeing to the propo sition they would place themselves in a situation of great difficulty. The Report of the Committee appointed in 1821 had this good effect—that it opened the eyes of the country to the mischiefs of the system that prevailed ; it proved that mo nopoly was not profit, and that restriction and monopoly were not synonimous terms. All who read the Report was con vinced that toeillow a monopoly up to the price of 80s. the quarter, and then to open the trade without limitation, was, in the highest degree, prejudicial ; and that it was not a good corn system which shut or opened the ports according to a fractional difference in the price of corn. Another principle Inculcated in the Report, and one of no small importance, was, that, the English agriculturist was entitled to protection against foreign competition equal to , the peculiar burthens under which he laboured. Updn view of the difficulties of the ease, the Conimittee recommended protection to that amount. This principle met with the concurrence of his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Robinson). In the next Session another Com mittee was appointed to consider the best mode of applying the principle of the Report, and the result was a proposed alteration to mitigate the principle of the Act of 1815. When the bill was brought forward, his Noble Friend (the Mar quis of Londonderry) stated that there was no difference in principle between it and the measure of the previous year, and that it shouldnot go further than met the wishes of those who were most interested. It was then objected that it (lid not go far enough. Ile stated these circumstances to ;thew that it was not now desirable to make any proposition not likely to carry with it the feelings of the pereons most deeply concerned. Ile did not mean to say that the subject ought not to be dis cussed; and he was obliged to his Honourable Friend (Mr. Whitmore) for his able statement, and the clear nnoiner in which lie pointed out the injurious reaction that might arise from the present state of the land. They must, however, prepare themselves, and the country gradually, for a system more con sistent with sound principle. He thought they had now seen the worst of the low prices. Corte effect of them was, to increase consumption and add, to the confidence and cottifort of the ma. nufacturing classes. On the other hand, owing to the diminu tion of the farmer's capital, there must be for some time to come a diminution of his profits and his produce. 'This circumstance, connected with an unfuvourahle harvest, could not buthave the effect of producing . a rise of prices. By any premature change, they might soon hung themselves into the difficulties from which they had just escaped. It was desirable to avoid such altera. thins as tended to produce in alteration of high and low prices, which equally distressed tWiartner at one time, and the manu facturer at another. Satisfied as he was, that the present. system of laws was as well adapted to.the existing state of agriculture, as any which could have been hitherto devised, he could. not see the advantages which would arise from the continual change of them. He agreed with the principles of his Hon. Friend that monopoly would be productive of great dangers, as well by the raisin g of the prices of agricultural produce above those of the other countries of Europe, as by exposing at one time the capital of the manufacturer, and at another the capital of the agriculturists to continual fluctuations.— Whet lie thought would be woeful, was the protecting of the British growers above those of the Continent, us fur as the burthens of the State rendered their state difihrent t'rom that of the foreign agrienituriste. The principles of the lion. Mem ber being similar to his own, lie hoped that the Hon. Mem ber would withdraw the motion, which was calculated, without the prospect of any ultimate eticeeeS, to excite discussions which would not be agreeable to any of those persons interested in the welfare of all classes. Mr. CUUWEN and Mr. BrlviTT explained. • Mr. RICARDO thought that all the Gentleinen who had spoken, even adversely to the motion of his Hon. Friend, had argued in favour of the principles of it. The Right lion. Gentleman had seemed afraid of the dangers likely to assail the capital of the agriculturiets ; the motion ofhis lion. Friend had been founded upon those very fears, upon the necessity of pre venting them from being hereafter realized. Ile would therefore support the motion of his Hon. Friend, because it would he pro ducuve of benefit, by contributing to remove the evils which caused those fears. In the system which his Hon. Friend had offitred to the House there was one evil, namely, that of hay. ing fixed prices. The Right lion. Gent. bad admitted that pro tecting duties, as far as the Britieb growers were more burthened than those of the Continent, would be useful; that was likely b ut the principle of fixed prices could not be regarded as ikely to be thus advantageous to the British agriculturists. His Hon. Friend had thought, when those duties, together with the remunerating prices, would allow corn to be sold at flOs. that corn might be imported at 00e. lie would agree with those principles so fur as that a protecting duty ought to be Impos e d for the protection of the British agriculturists for the burthens of the State, and that a drawback ought to be allowed to them On their exports amounting to those burthens. Such a eyseem would tend to prevent either'a glut or a scarcity in the market, as it would support the impart and export at proper times. The Right Ifeln. Gentleman hart deprecated the preeent Bill as likely to create agitation ;—it would not cause it. His lion. Friend had said that the principle of his measure ought not to be carried into effect until the price should reach 80s. ; but he thought that it would be proper now, or when the price was 70s. The Honourable Member for, Norfolk had stated that the Right Honourable Gentleman had promised the price to be at fits. for ten years ; he would he satisfied, even according to his theory, if no corn was to be imported after the price should be as low as 605., and he could see that Hon. Member would not dispute for the other four shillings. lle could not agree with the reasoning of the on. Members for Cumberland and Wiltshire, that the taxes paid by . the rentholders were a grievance to the agriculturists ; for the cultivators were not so much aggrieved by the taxes paid by their landlords' as they were remunerated by the high prices of their produce. As he therefore considered the motion likely in some measure to be partly productive of the benefits which he foreeaw would accrue from the system which he advocated, he hoped that the motion would not be withdrawn. Much had been said of the Report of the Committee, which could not be denied to be excellent in its principles--those principles could not be too frequently repeated-4hose . princi ples, from frequent reetition, would produce the beet sion as well on the house 11.4 an the country. fie could not therefore consent to the withdrawing of the Motion,particti H - laxly as it related to a question of vital importance. e would take the sense of the House on the question. The prosperity of the manufacturers depended on the price being low and steady ; and he could not but lie friendly to a system which mould tend to produce that effect, while it would produce the greateetadvantage to the growers of corn.--(Hear !) Mr. \VODE HOUSE explained. Mr. ATTWOOD supported the motion, and entered at sonic length into details which have frequently time canvassed in debate. lie contended that a high price of corn would not have the effect of injuring the Revenue, end maintained that, with the exception of the freight, the English fanner was sub. ject to as heavy charges us time foreign agriculturist who pent his corn to this country. Mr. MONCK said he would support the Bill, agreeing as he did with the lion. Mover. It WAS his (Mr. Monck's) opi nion, that the only way of relieving the distress of the Agricul. tural interests was by diminishing the expence of cultivation, which could be only done by diminishing the amount of taxes. Colonel WOOD said that be did not know any thing which was mere likely, at the prow moment, to unsettle the mind of tide country than to tamper with the Corn Laws, after the decision of the House last Session* said he hoped the Ho use wou ld s M ir r. T lßE L sai m il l eh t iat ß h i e D w o o t ulti divide the House on th e Bill. not adopt the prin c ipl e of the Bill; it was not sufficiently com prehensive to afford to the sgdeulturists any relief. li e hop e d that_Ministers would vote egoir'st Mr. WHITMORE said that he would not press the nio. tion, but if any llonourable.3l ember should divide the House upon It, he would vote precieely as if lie hail hi mse lf ca ll e d f or turists, unless the p o rt s were kept open, and unless there was a that division. Th ere wit s, in hie opinion, no relief for agricul. regulated duty. Mr. LEsTER, said that before the price of corn could be re. deem], the object which could be only the reduction of notation. expence of producing it should also. be reduced—an The I louse then divided—For the motion, 25; Against it, 70 a rteiued by — Majority against the motion. 35 . The other Orders of the DRY were then disposed of, and the House adjourned, FOREIGN INTELIAGENtE. PARIS, FEB. 2.l.—The Duke (le Reggio sets out this week for the Army of Spain.—(Moniteur.) W e h ave re ceived a letter from Bayonne, dated the 18(h. Many fresh troops bad not then arrived. Two maiis from Madrid were due, but it was expected they would arrive on that or the following day. It was known from travellers that Madrid was quite tranquil. There is a report that Spain has determined, in order to secure the alliance of England, to cede to her, if it should be required, Ceuta, Santana and Mahon.--(Journal de Paris.) The first brigade of the camp equipage of the Duke d'Angouleme will arrive at Bordeaux on the 26th invt. It consists of 13 individuals, 22 horses, two carriages, and 13 gendarmes for escort.—lt is reported this afternoon, that .5,000 seamen have been ordered to be levied at Brest. CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES.--MONDAY. FEB. 24. SPEECH tf M. DE 'MULE on the WAR SUBSIDY. [From the Moniteur of Tuesdayl " GENTLEMEN,--The Government will find in this discussion the greatest justificatioa which could be made of the course which it has adopted respecting the affairs of Spain. In fact, of all the speakers who have attacked the appropriation of funds proposed by the aovernment, none have advanced the objection which ought naturally to present itself to those who oppose that appropria tion ; that is, to prove to the Government that it is in error, in regarding the honour anti security of the country to be incompatible with the pre sent state of things. I ask every candid. man whether this be not the real question ? Is it not the proof which ought to be brought forward at this tribune ? But when, instead of endeavouring to impress this conviction on your minds, it is at tempted to alarm you on the consequences of the war, and to go into digressions on the opinion of this or that Minister, on this or that act, :foreign to a question so important, then, I say, it is con fessed that this question cannot be otherwise re solved than the Government itself has resolved it. (Marks of approval on the right.) " The Deputy who opened this debate, who disputed the right of intervention, has taken care not to approach this point of the difficulty : lie has throughout supposed the state of Spain so regular, so coUfortnuble to principles which could not he applied except to ourselves, that he has exhibited it as the condemnation of those who are impressed with the necessity of combating it : but he would certainly be bound, according to his own principles, to come. to very different con clusions, if he had been disposed to view the present state of Spain, such as it is, such as has. placed us under the necessity of having recourse to war, since we could no longer remain at peace with that country with honour and security. " The lion. Speaker whom I have followed did me justice when he said, the President of the' Council of Ministers would wish to preserve peace, to avcid war. • Ile .had no need to speak of a Minister ; he hid only to refer to the senti ments of the Monarch, to be certain that no Minister could have continued i n office, had he given counsels such as we are at this moment sup posed to have followed ; that is to say, to advise an unjust war—a war which, in the situation of our country, we could not avoid.—(Again'an expression of approbation on the right.) Yes ; and I have already declared from this tribune in the secret Committee, that it is with regret—it is only-because honour and safety require it—that we have recourse to arms : if it had been pos .sible. to avoid war, we would have avoided ite--, We'have tried every nieans to maintain amicable relations with Spain=we have tried by every means to avoid the calamities of war ; but things being brought to the situation in which they are, and as long as the state of Spain shall .continue' • what it is at present, 1 declare that there is but one way of attacking the proposition of Govern ment, and that is to prove that it can with honour, with safety, with less injury than will result to the interests which are represented to us as being compromised by war, maintain peace with that country. " The Hon. Deputy, who has done me justice with respect to this particular of my character, might have rendered me equal justice with re spect to another : it is, that it was only to bear the responsibility of office in times so difficult and troublesome as the present, that I renounced an advantage which I was as likely to procure, with the ideas which he gives me credit for, as any bpdy else. Assuredly, I cannot give a better pledge of, my conviction that it is impossible for us, with honour and safety, to remain in our pre sent situation, than is to be found in my not having quitted office with the opinion that would be attached to my sentiments for the preservation of Spain. If there is sacrifice to make—if lam to give a pledge and a confirmation of the truth of my opinion, that what has been done has been, as it ought to be, commanded by the interests of the King and of the country, I have made that sacrifice, and I have given that pledge, by continuing in office with all the burdens they impose upon me, and by, renouncing the popu larity .which I should have acquired by quitting it.—(Strong sensation.) " A state of peace appears to me a hundred times snore preferable than a state of war; so also does a state of war to disgrace ---to seeing the most solid interests of my country compro mised; and this undoubtedly is the situation in which the Spanish revolution has placed us. (Nu merous voices on the right, oc Yes, yes ; t►ravo.") For, as has often been said in the course of this, debate, it is only the blindness and obstinacy of the Spanish revolution which is to blame for all the evils which may result from the present situ., ation of things; and herein exists a great differ ence between the probability of events, and the comparisons which it has been wished to make with what has previously occurred in Spain. " Yes, Gentlemen, there is' blindness, there is obstinacy, there is even forgetfulness of the in. Wrests of Spain on the part of those who at this moment govern in Madrid ; and can you believe that in this' situation a generous intervention, dictated by the most sacred interests on the part of France, will be received as was the first en trance of the French armies into pain "The King declared to you in his speech, I t it h s at ci i r f el t e he al w id ar lim b i e t i i t i s ie t v lu it r a a b t l io e n , .he would COIItrIC I . :. . -, ,•:. : it E n vain will it be answered that such expec tations were formerly entertained, and that they were disappointed. But why, Gentlemen, were they disappinted ? Because the war MIS under taken to establish a foreigner on the Throne of Spain, to overthrow the laws of the country, aod to convert the Peninsula into a province of France. tis , the any on l y law, Bat when, far from entertaining any s uch int°. ioi presentmoutirrmseulrys onest to mainta in 0? au. thority of the legitimate SoVerei.;n, without wish in g to i mpose re not see how we can be prevented from alivayS " You have been told, the right), I do inainiug masters of the power of circuinscrihiag the mode of the war, and of limiting its duratian• gers to_which our commerce will be exposed. II it possible that, in a French Chamber, Fre nch orators can come forward to tell us that the wa r with Spain will - compromise the interests of our commerce ?--(Voices on the left--" Yes, Ye s; they are already compromised.") —ThPY I already compromised, lam told. Gentlemeni , repeat the words, for an lion. Member has used Gentlemen, of the do them before me. You bring into this discussion prejudices which ought not to prevail in it- The annunciation of war has produced all 1b ee f : c i t s e that war itself will produce; and th at enec' fj nothing more than a moral effect, fo r yon yin° , 1 facts.—(Livly be greatly punled to mention any igt; substant!as oe crie interruption on CriaS from that side," Th e f a ll of the Fillid s ' '-' from the right sid e , " mGlowfcurut liaotrtsedni e Ii ce ought The PREMEXT 1, To , . p ' a siw ,k e r is eitiot-e, -, ' , The right of reply is . common ln 'to ernj ali t the. Chamber; lAt t w e speaker ought to be hard befo , .. ' ever; thine (Bile nl itc e e d °I re-es a tablished, and the Minister . - of Finance th en 'wee - , s e l ect Ought we not to attribute that moral e " of exertion s ilie Order, order.") ~ ~ pi , to Which I have just alluded, to the party spirit ? Indeed, who - can fear It ' s i De vessels which we have in the coloni..s shoo" 1 , v ti e le ry cr t e r d u u tt l i i , ty G o e f ut t le h i e ni p . captured in endeavouring to enter our harboor.ii %Vill it be those who have speculated io roin ni iii commodities ? (Laughter on the r i g ht. ? t hat some individuals have displayed a desire I na , • you knoworo. state of our navy : you know that in the A i l ve , in our colonies, and upon our coasts, " r ,' iti oat much greater number of vessels or ivir tu' ll nie , unhappy Spain, tvitli Whose vengeance yoa nace , us, can furnish from all her ports. _ goo,. 4 In whatever point of view, the debat ° r eel sidereal, it will of course happen that 'th e m i, , question will be discussed ; and that qu es t/ve t. —can the present state of Spain, of whi ch jo ger fects, as far as they relate to france, can go , .0 , be concealed, coLth l ui, to „, - , i t ii * .thn ui , V a g (lacing danger and dishonour to oorselstes•vibio. know the facts ; you have seen the reP l Yt. s , o( asks of France to withdraw her Ar1,"0,0 nulbliich:adforal,inost sae. burr Observation from the -Pyrenees. Ti l, ere ti o etv • en , condition of peace: -: . Examine it, G t l / 1 ,, pre' te o. rm ad in o e p d t t u h l e io , and tell us whether, consistently w ith ‘, - , 1 (1 l b ' :nervation of the honour of the Gro'i'n , T . i . l eft t t ri e b i u n n le e rn h t a .i s l security_ of the country, there was any ° li l t :oil , ' for the King to take than that whiCli he ir ' 0,4 ,111,(I'vraanncenedhans" assertion i. d t e i : I :L I : ifiris'i t il i ;‘11::' n Fi t l a, i k it i- .l r i lg. cha A rte n r I : ent l i: at enrce g f l a t:i : o o unt t is r isli o lti:lee S u t i. n r co p tt.. u hot a tti t a i iit i l i eir ' o i ii ' arasi a crvi l a ‘lea l ,o l e y r, l ot(rd d .i i iyo l s) l oin S etr i s l i i .i i i itv ' U sil i alo a t iu . cia,. l t rfi l l i t. o e l i i,l, i ~vieit t l t t .l, : t i wa n t iv vil l i s ti: : :ll, t eti l t -1 00 ' 6 - ,4 . 1 , ' 1, ‘ ,s l e litri tl i) ii, oi a l e pl i i °l ollil i iii r l;t _own institutions : we know that dui 5- tio tlier but can we answer for their isuitiag °„iairil people ? Do you think us so litiie tioil,"%sta spsoisi, t wep . i c o , l ..0 0 wish to i p nl- impose u p on P theni histitutions;wlit I , no , t , have originated with themaelvas,*- , A fear ft'r I.repent it, W" have no reproaCa say — e ra: - ~,,, a the Government of the King 11 ' 15 " l e has In ":" in its power to maintain 1)(;"'" - , t i u tee P . ; the greatest sacrifices: and yoit Iv ut , ht t i not li r eindured from Spain. Notiiiiig hot th e '41,4110, will say the almost could have induced a star, • lik e F rinice oo l : t a fter Navinrcise such astonishing forbearo ce* , go tiii' :i lg so conducted ourselves for so I° , a ' ; isle it it was our duty to ask ourselves if su c " ou r cof e things could continue without dang er I ,l ° s illel i i t 's . came for making known 0 try ? We thought it could not ; n il ". oo il'i time point, we did it from - profound coirvi' tl e d tha t I my part, I think I have sufficiently Prnvocieseei have obeyed merely the dictatesof ley co t 1 Oa' ' think that peace is preferable to wl r ; I .: i tl e Ita illte i ' ' also, that in the sit • of ;le .. 00 uattoti .pa 7 all t o nonce o fthat a t For tO- 1 , peaceis impossible, and reasonsitwou l:1 l b e thinko lor a t i t i l a n t n y g o e u r ocuasntilli;ttirrs:'fauPrsi t ' e l I (i' tr °1 1 1 :11 ° 0 1 1 0.1 : 11 ) . , dies which are required of you." (A g l e .,, n c (' llaW ber i o ' the present a sek e !..7el l i e n7;e w ;f o ii i iis t ie ti :i r s i t g li i : to°lo c tt.i' ir ' el tfh l ' il °ll4l'! present crisis, we. have trarislatesi it entir e leg P - 0 1 )11*. tear. speech, in winch he forcibly deprecated wart li_„a e ice 'ige 3 b i f tsA hi. Royer-Collard opened the debate ill a 0,41 the projected invasion of 'pain had not beenr o 'Thron e j ell i it yal mind, but by a party SUMS er than tl-'''',,l ll .: whoae object as the establiii n e • r g of arbilrarY ii tu tor P l ', lad excited public odiuni b Itilielir'entleavottO i t .;,'',, peti c iot, j 9 _ th at the whple storation into a scourge, insi Y ead of a banclit' t° „ . itii c e: t it t" . maintained, as; l'iine l Talleyrind had nor? 1 , I .„;3ett speech on the Address in cue' Chamber of r e ' e r k . 'ea " 1 ,40, 4 1 thc ^ institutions of France. which were to he O l t% iv "'ow and not the Spanish Revolution ; and energioctili4 iipliapiVi fora cause which would bailer own, but that z 0°, 4 ,01, ‘ l ,,t b'et felt she would be fighting against her 43 w 0 ' n ' - be 344 ' tO'''' every victory which might b.. obtained vieuhl 4 40 A, tial a elf-' s— lle wars follow 4 by M. babounionoge;',hcsili, Ilifl the Ministers for not go - hid to war sooner, but tu05,„ 0 ,:0.,„, nation would voluntardY 01 leis ecr7,-,11, supportvd the motion for the subsidy' I ' tw o ~,,, pi ~ ON horde, who painted in striking colours the (Weil, tie ,iiie l 'o the, all but impossibility , of mimeos : next i:t000,10.11e el, who voted for the )s'l;r, tri the ground or sury%eso, r ah of the Crown.-31. Del;:sitert then delivers s o tots b lot 0 44 . ttgairist war, in which he quoted the reP O )", 1,17, amen et t.'„ in 1803, by the,. Alinister of OtionapArt 0 , ''' r ° sv, r oll / Spain; and observed upon it, that tile Chitou e lia ..,' 3 rlll ol _;', much num in powtr resembled each other , 3 t AO o fitv'T tificationr:sted on the same grounds as that 0 ~: 1 .,,,,,101 0 o , , M. Citadel baj ac made a declamatory harangne':j that a 0 4r General Foy, with great eloquence, 1:0 06 3` 1 i n ; o' 00' ' I 1P" a rl '' ) hung' ,I, which lie ea an old soldier could not )e a n fi should be employed in a service in which, AS (ilea. en) 'Crust ilOllO it•wouhl fail. - have g iv lie ° at The hlinister Villele (whose speech w e d A loog ',pet - 'awed; and af,:er him, M. Basterrecht, rea 0 a dj0a....,,,e. A i favour of peace. The discussion wa s the yika $ 11l osSr o'clock, for want of sufficient Members to,!,`„ 100 0 so , , o ctit , 4 o l The galleries were filled with Veers a 4 ; s s no‘i'd ront't of distinction. The English Arobassatl° some of the papers ascribe the to the expectation of a speech from : 51d however, did not speak. inunemeaccohsocoltiou,