The Sun. — London, England, 1823-06-13 00:00:00

. coalti not eoneUr is opinion with the I.Carneit Civilian (Doctor a him to eatry .. ale a gcana reeding neplettgeathimselr, not only Ptiillimore) as to the improbability of it m e asure so just and , to gate them due notice of his intention td ,(I . vance it another reasonable passing into a law. ' image, but to consult their own convenience in this respect to .The petition wan brought up. 'the utmost of their power. M. .M. A. TAY1.011• thought it neaceetatat !tante -step Ur. BANICES said, he had no intention or Wish to offer a should 'be taken to save the parishes front the buiten /earn• vexatious opposition to the Bill. - Ile had, lit ! wever, to make a ..), lairwea of ; but he thought the Catholic Clagy were moth to few remarks on the motion for a second !Teeing, which would blame that thev did not, after the examples . their brethrintin be in opposition to thee. motion. Ile would, itoweverepromise other pate of the country, refoce to solerithate marriages er- not to make any objection to the itmtion in point of time, even cording to the rites of the Catholic Church, unless the pititiat if the Noble Lord should bring it on after midnight. *ere previously married ,in the parish cintfthes. 'Phaitgli a 'Lord NUGENT said, he merely wished the second reading genera friend to concession to the Catholics, he coOld not see to take place now pro forma. Ile did not prepuce to make or how the disability complained (*.rot& be reunite(] Without to invite any discussion on the principle at' the Billa very strict grounds. a . . 4 Mr. BA NKES was understood .to say, he feared he could De. PHI 1,1,1 MORE cld:tined; that ltuul merely felVised not consent to this Arrangement. his Noble Friend (lend ,Nugent) nut to end:lnfer the fate of Lord NUGENT, said, he lied understoOd time Hon. Member ,hilt Bill by introducing a provision respecti4Wwitiages into did not intend to offer a 'vexatious opposition to the Nil ; and, it. He (Dr. Phillimote) had formerly prepared al. Bill to en- upon this understentlibg, he had appeal al to the courtesy of able Catholics to be married'by their own . lergy, biettbe bad the lion. Membei. Ile apprehended that lie toilet iliac' mid.' not introduced it in consequence of -haying found it woulsd+ ex. taken the nature or the Hon. Member's opposition. cite opposition in another plaap. ' I 1 , ISLE OF MAN CIIARIT'IES. . ' Mr. BENNE'I' hoped ailillab fentedy this evil *mild be; e e Mr. BROUGHAM begged to ask a question of - the Right introduced, that if there was any 'one so deficient in decent flog. Secretary opposite, respeeting' the Charitable Inistetti. feeling as to ,ttppold the ardent' state of things, the world tionlepplie !sled Alan. The Comesion for inqUiry into the might see, c t h o e miring eyes, the soft of person who might "use' if Charities did not extenst,to that island ; but: h e under. be the It eitteseteeilive of a nation boasting of superior lights stood the 'night lion. Gerais:matt held directed certain. inqui. anti improyed reason. , t. T..EVIAS hoped, though hot a Iliend to Obncessiott ifs wished to know of whom those inquiriee were made, arid what gent r. Chat such a bill would be broil& in. The Catholic was their result. , . . Priests *dit hound by the la* of their religion not to throw Mr. Secret a ry PEEL sa id lie had stated, on a former &ea any obstacle lit tile way of marriage, Which was with them- a - Rion, that he was not adverse to the Commission being ex. soctanient. tended to the isle of Man, if the charities there were sufficient Ma t Mm A. 'TAYLOR Raid, in many parts of England in value to warrant such an expence. They did not appear Catholie Prietas thought it convenient with their conscience to sufficient ; and inquiries were therefore made, of the Bishop . df 'tale the prildent course he had &Wilted. Soder end Man on the subject ; the iinstreee te which inquiries- Mt. J. P. GRANT observed„ Th at , i n S cot l an d, thou g h mare were perfectly satisfactory. If the Hon. sled Learned Member ridges solemnized by Cathdlie iiriesta were valid, the Priests j te lo o l t i i i h i l t. move fbr the correspondence, lie had ho desire to withel themselves Were liable to heavy penalties for solemnizing them. , --Tie bad oncecto defend u Catholic Priest for having married Mr. BROUGHAM said the matter of complaint affected the two of his flock. ile.hoped the law, in this respect, weld be Millet:himself. Ile did not mean the Bialtop individually, amended. but the Bishops generally. After a few wards. from Dr. Pure - 1,1310110 and Mr. M. A. Mr. Secretary PEEL said that every thing appeared to have Taverna the petitlep Was ordered to be printed. b een done to advance the interests of the Charity, and there had Sir J. MACKINI OSII presented a petition from the Flax- undoubtedly been settle departures front the strict letter of the Dreseers of Knaresboioatait against the reduction of the duty on intentions expressed in &Jule of the bequests ; and he had 'in Pan Tow 'it - Imported. - consequence apprized the ihdividuals intrusted with the ma: M. II Cala; thduglit the measure petitioned against credit. nagente,nt of them, that; hotieteer laudable might be their views, able to the Government; as the duty on Tow had before been they had no power to exercise a discretion, and must adhere higher as t ampared with its value than that on Flax. literally to the terms of each begtiest. 'Mr. S. RICE observed, that in the Citstoms Consolidation Mr. BROUGHAM said he should take an opportunity of! Bill the promised reduction on Yarn iniPorted into Ireland was moving tilt the production of the correspondence in question. not Inade. ALTERATION Ol'' CU 11 RENCY. ' 1 Mia C. GRANT said, its omission was through error, and Mr. WESTERN moved time Order tit the Day for resuming weuld be remedied. ' ' the debate, on the motion for a Committee to Inquire into the Mr. BRIGHT gave notice, that Pn the Customs Consolida. effect of the Resumption of Cash Payments. Sion Bill he should move to repeal the duties of twenty per The miestioit being put front the Chair, ceht. on articles not enumerated in the Schedule, imported Mr. WODE HOUSE said, that in rising to triage some ob. from the Colonies, eetvations on this subject, it would not be supposed thtft he was PRINCESS OF CUMBERLAND. attached to grumbling for the sake of gruintilingi Hie opinion Sir G. NOEL moved, that the Petition presented on the 3d of this question was, that it was one of paramount importance, .~"harsh last front the person claiming to be Princess of Cum. and egregiously misunderstood. The Noble Marquis °pies:l4sl berland be pritited. Ile gaVe notice that, on Wednesday next, had accused him with being the author of the term " equitable' he should move for a Select Committee, to take the case into adjustment." Ile admitted that it was so, and he would ez. I consideration, its it was important the question should be set plain to the House how he had first used it. It was at a dinner , at rest one way or other. The conduct of the Mitalaters wea in honour Oldie memory of the late Mr. Pitt, that he had observ. equally disgraceful whether tire Claimant was or was not an etl; that had that great Statesman lived to see the result of his impostor.—Petition ordered to, be 'printed. own measures, he would have hit upon some means of admi. HEMP—SHIPPI NG. nistering a more equitable adjustment towards the several in. Mr. HUME presented a Petition from Mr. D. Hodson, a terests of the community, some of which were suffering so much shipowner. complaining of the duty on hernia which was now more than others. This was the way in which he had etnploy. equal to 23 per cent. ad valorem, and which formed a heatry eel the eapresSion in question ; he might be wrong, but he burthen on British shipping. thought that every slay gave, Confirmatioti to his opinions. lie Mr. ROBERTSON took occasion to defend a statement had also been alluded to agitating quoted the sentiments of Mr. which he had made on a former night, when ate asserted thud Henry Thornton ; but when he called to the recollection of ' American ships were not admitted into French ports on equal the House the panegyric peased dui Ott Gentleman by the terms with French vessels. He read the Ordonnance of the. Right lion. Gentleman 'helopi him (Mr. Huskisson), he King of France, whence it appeared, should stand acquitted of having spoken in terms not autho. francs a ttin Wu retained in favour of French shipping. at g premium of 2d' He sized. But what he particularly attended -OW, that if Mt.' mentioned this to show that the policy proposed te be intro. Homer himself had lived, his opinions of lab Wotild not have :lima into this country was entirely new, at least as far as na.. been those he expressed in 1019, and that when Mr. Locke tint were concerned that aimed at naval greittnese. As he was quoted it should be considered that as he did not know, hail before said, our shipping had decreased 130,01RJ tons, our nor conid have conceived what had since occurred; it was like Seamen 8,000, while our trade had increased four millions ; a ginning an authority from before the flood, about transactions fact which showed the danger to Wilkh our maritime greatness which had since taken place. Thug it was, he wisheil the ace I suet ezposed. thins of his Majesty's Ministers to be viewed. Ills firm con- Mr. OTABERLY thought a reduction of the tleitet mentioned viction was, that when they agreed to this meastite, they were n the Petition would be attended with gteat benetft. not aware of itt magnitude. ilia opinion was, that they were The Petition was then read and ordered to lie on the table. too much enamottrol of the theories of the Hon. Member for Mr. III. 1111.1.: moved for certain Returns relative to Excise Portarlington, that Hon. Member himself not being awned of Prosecutions.--Ordered. the importance of did measure. Ile wished td speak of dust Mr. lIUME presented a petition from a person named Hon. tlentleman with the respect due to Mandel - its and chntac. Clayton, relative to the Laws respecting Coal Aletage. The ter, but be needed no inure to prove his assertion than tO point Hon. Member said, he should next Session move for a Com_ out, that that lion. Gentlemen told them in 11119 that the tuittee to enquire into those Imam. principle of the measure was important I hut that the nestle of 'rite petition was ordered to be minted.. carrying it into execution was " trivial, and not worth half an IRISH BREWERIESse that . hour's notice." After that ; was it ►possible to au • Mr. ELIAS presented a petition from the Brewers etiDutitn, a mind such as his was, would have so expreseed itself, had 'Cork, and 'Waterford, which he coneidered as expresiing de it been impressed with the true nature of the measure which sentiments of the whole of the Brewing Trade of Ireland. e had delve so much sail? 'He referred to the Report of stated that the diminution of the IVhuiekey Duty had lovaered the Aricultattd Committee, which pOinted out the vast pro g ress; the price of that commodity so as to lender it (from its in. &ion of nation/it iMattovement as a proof of the unnatural eff e ct of the eetramatdinary issue of paper money. He did not meat creased consumption), injutiotte W the morals anti health of the people. It also had the effect of diminishing the consump. to resort to permute' observation ; but he could not help re . ton of Malt by one third. The Petitioners in consequence, minding the Right Hondttrabla Preeident of the Board of apprehended the entire destruction of the Beer Trade; and Trade (Mr. Huskiesen) that his sentiments upon these ins. portant topics were at etre time very different from what he they therefore prayed for exemption of the Duty on Malt, and a replit an gof the Duty on Whiskey. had since expreseed. He did not impute this to him as blame, Mr. . LEWIS said, that every argument advanced by the but merely to shew that they had 'gone to legislation in total petitionefs had been fully considered, and had not led diet:met. error of the eititatiorm they were in.' Mr. Horner told them mittte Of the Irish Revenue to recommend any alterationor the. that corn wits the MO proper standard of value ; arid the systetti now proposed. late Lord Liverpool had observed, 'that in the time of Queen Sir JOHN NEWPORT spoke in favour of the petition; ' Elizabeth men had a foresight and knowledge, which taeght llra C. fIiTTCHINSON thotighathe extension of the Brett , - them that the sensible value of money must be tried tty the cries was of the first importance to the peace and prosperity tif value of other commodities. Ile supported his argument by elreland. quoting part of Mr. Locke's letter to Lord Somers on the sub. Mr. GnaTTAN and Mr. Ilia supported] the petitiOn. jest of time currency, in which that great man pointed out that Mr. MONCK thought the soltjetit referred to by the ftefidOn money was as likely to fluctuate in value as any otltet commo. •Wal well deterving or the coneitierOttun of Government. dity. • He believed no work lately &Wished ott this subject Col. BARRY eleo spoke in favour of the „Encouragethent of was better entitled to attention &vitt that 6f Mr. James. -Iraqi Breweries. That Gentleman was simian , ' to be examined before the The Petition was then read, ar)a ordered to lie on the table, Agricultural Committee. Ile Kali-. Wodehouse) had wished and'after a few words from Mr. IlEititflos and Mr. It tat:, was him to be called as a whites:l. The Committee were not willing 'ordered to be printed. to do so; and finding' this indisposition on their part, he Mr. WESTERN said, his lion. Friend, the Member for (Mr. Wotlehouse), like a fool as be was, had waived his de. Weymouth had given notice of a motion for this evening which mand, and thus much valuable information had probably been might have the precedence of the adjourned dehateint . last night. lost. He could have wished every man examined who had Considering the great importance of the question raised by any plan to ofFer for the relief of the country. This might thnedebate, he hoped his Hon. Friend would consent to Pre it have Involved them in a chaos of . projects ; but from that chaostheepoecedence, order would probably have arisen. Ile combated the arid. -Mr. BUXTON said he had no objection to this, en:aided ciples advocated by Dr. Copplestone, denied his facts, and ;eertain papers, for which he intended to move, should be pro.. contended that his work was full of blunders. In the epitaph litleed ; and lie would in that case bring on his motion, founded on Queen Elizabeth, she had been _praised for various acts of on those papers, on the 24th inst. her reign, imd et last come the words, et moneta in fustum va - Mr. PRICE plettented a ,s Petition from m ae'oeral freeholders boron redactor. He, however, was satisfied that she had not 'of Herefordoltive in favour of a reconsideration of the Act fur restored money to its just value in the sense, in which it was roaming (.rash Peytnents. now contended that she btu] done so, and he Was of opinion th at EAST INDIA. MILITARY P 1 NSIONii. if tiny thing could make time old Queen (Elizabeth) start from Mr. wvs ri said. that allusion had been made on a former • het grave, it would be thte imputation on her thitiacter, and he 'evening to certain claims which the Government had on the had no doubt, in the case' supposed, that of her rising again, East India Company in respect of the Pensions and Al. • her Melody *AM tell. those of her admirent; who maintained the doctrines to which he had alluded, that they were all a lewanees made to Officers in his Majesty' s *orrice who had served in India. A correspondence had taken place between parcel of fiats..-stet laugh.)—lle strongly censured the Act of hii Majesty's Goapmnient and the East India Comp a ny on 1019, as a most pernicious measure. Some good, he thought, tine subjeete add lie hod the sAtisriction to state that the elites. might yet be done by adopting a silver currency. In conclu- tion hal • been met tie the fairest manner by the East India sion, the Hon. Gentleman maid, he' wag aware that various Company, which had agreed at once' to a payment of 00,000/. constructions might be put on what he advanced; but this he in part satisfaction of those ego& Tel giye effect to the ar. heeded not, animated as he warr, , bet by a sense of public duty. .• rangement, the sanction of a Conemittee Of that. House would Mr. JAMES was not so fortunate as the Honourable Mem . lot necessary, mind he therefore begged to mete that the House bet for Norfolk, for he had not read the writings of' Mr. .4,14011.1. resolve itself. Into a Conemittee foe that purpose to- Locke and alr. David 'hone on the subject o f cu r r en cy .— tuotrowe that time House ehntildarmoncireo* resolve itself into He had, hoWever, read the hook of his namesake Out no a Committee to consider of the' atilariee of the Bishops and relation) Mr. James, and he had also read Mr. Cobbett's Clergy, the Judges, and other Officers of the Courts of judi. " Paper against Gold," and, in his opinion, that great and caters in India. eminent writer had thrown more light on the ; subject than all Both the motions of the Right Honourable Gentleman were the other* together. ' He proceeded to explain the effects of an . agreed td. attetation in the dim oney, and gave it as his opinion, titat as air. lIIISKISSON presented"a petition from several Owtiers 'the' Legietattere bad ...produced the evil ? they were bound to of Tenements , in and near Liverpool, complaining of the cx. attempt to supply a r e m e dy, To refute an inquiry into the pence and inconvenience to Alen they were exposed by dui ' subject, raotahl he to sanction a real revolution of the worst present Law respecting Tenants who Mil Over after having re. kind, anti to countenance e vils more appalling in their character caved orders to quit.—Ordered to lie on time titbit). than any the most tyrannical despotism lied ever inflicted. Mr. Secretary PEEL presented a petition from sever a l Lora FOLKESTONE rose with reluctance, but did so, as Linendrapers of Belfast, complaining or the gr e a t expense to it had been' thought the proposition which he had to offer might 'Which they were put by the high price of Coal, and other ma. be most conveniently off ere d in the shape of an amendment to tceials, necessarily used in the process of ble a ching li nen , an d the motion now before the House. He • contrasted the argue Jo-aying for rellea—Ordered to lie on the table. ments of his lion. Friend, the M e mber for Portarlingtora , and After a few words from Sir A. tatiortosoea in f avour o f remarked, he could not have faith in his present prediction, 'the petitioh, tt was ordered to lie on the table. remembering es he did how time former prophecies of his 110. TREATY OF 1014. nourable Trend had failed. Ile had spoken in 1019 very :dr. BUXTON Moved 'several for copies ot Papers, con. lightly - of the inconveniences which would follow from the ewieting principally of aeorfevontience between the Duke of adoption of the measure then under consideration, and had 'Wellington and E a rl Bathurst, respecting the amount of the said, that ere lon g (he believed the Hon. Ge n tleman laid limited stuns received from Prance , under the Treaty of 1814, in antis. the period to time following (:hrietines) they would took back faction of the claims of I:tighten! upon that country ; 'and for With wonder to time apprehensions whielt they had felt on this several Accounts shorting the appropriation of thoite name.— subeeat a Since ttra . Blithad passed,' however, the prices of every !description f'o agrtcultintel produep had declined, and' the sites ; . Ordered. . that on the Midi Width lie' titot of those connected whh the land had been continually et. Mr. BUXTON then gave notice, shook' submit a matiOn td the noose, tObe founded on these tang worse from that period down' fce the present time. The effect which the restoration of' the curtency had prodtaced on all Papers. ' c ontracts previously made, that he proposed ( to nmekte as an FIGLISH CATHOLIC WM.. ' a l which lie amendment to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman tile audition Lord NUCIENT said he had to repeat an appeal I' lied made in the est ter part of' the eveniti to' the collevY. of of words declaratory of the intention of the House ttte inquire die lion. Meinhcra who opt the B'll furaittendidg tre pH. into the practicability of making some equitable anlngement 2 to 1 f Fatikkie He was which would save the parties concerned from impending ruin. , sileg es of the , rt4sh C itth l he- -- those o n iiied to move the By some it was said that such a proposit?on tended to a revolt:. aapreheneive List unless oe were now _ per inbound reading of the Dill the time would be too far advanced tion ; but he would maintain that to tersiat in the present course ur it to pas* through the other House this Sessionr i Ire theie. was more likely to lead to such an even, as wgreater revolu. toe" , thelion3tetnhers who opposed the Bill would. abw ellow tion in property lifaT Rot./ taking pleVe than had el et fteen Wit:, • • nesaed 'before. lie arqntly eulngiatal the.aireccii of . his Soble Friend (the Maniniartif 'fitelifield), on the preceding night, which had clearly demonstrated the revoluthinary character. t*f the present system. lie had shewn that persons of the Highest rank and most ancient families here faat.losing-,the Patrimony to which they had been born, anti werain many in stances unable to claim the 9tlvantages to which they were en titled by birth. Such beingytlie fact, - perseverance in the same course must eventually reduce the House of !Artiste the situa tion of being liable to be called "the Housed Paupers." The Constitution was therefore attacked by that of which he. Com plained, . for such a body as he :had supposed the.other.,Houetz. might becqme, would not be fitted to transactilfat portion of the public business which sow now Ject to the lionaeoll e ords. But thy' House of ,Lords, besides a third estlite,riVKA a Cotirf of Justice, before which, as a derhier resort, questions of property he fitting that midi ilttekhint thtittld Wire to be tried. Would it be decided by a body who batmen tlespdiled of their wealth ? it French Gentlernan of great tteateness, e‘s appeared from his *erica, had come to England some time ago to study the forms of British .Indicature. He lied ,eipecially . admired the , he reditary Aristocracy of England, as giving advaniages to this country whidlt could ' nearer. be - realized in France., as that was etfectually prevented by the law which re. uired the property of an individual deceased to be equally divided alining all his sons. The measure now in operation, went to destroy the hereditary aristocracy of the country, not less effectually than would. such a, law ors that. of' France. Il e proceeded at much length to describe the pf&setit depressed state of the country. It was veiy. well for aliniltteill to say, that if it were necessary, the country was in a situation to go to war. Ile believed that it would be found exceedingly difil cUlt to raise enough in the present currency . by additional taxes to carry on a wnr throUgh one or two campaigns. list assuming that we were not called. upon to go to war at presenti he main: tamed, as his Noble Friend had done on the preceding day, that this was the time for regulating our . . affairs, so that we might be prepared fur whatever might occur, for that nation Was in a lamentable state which did not hold itself ready to act its part in a war should it he. necessary. Ile read from an an cient Scotch law' a recognition of the principle On which he contended. That principle had been also adopted in a French degree, and had been acted upon. Hall thettintracts in France had been regulated in, relation to the altered value of the as: sigmas, might it not be possible to effect What he contended for, an equitable adjustinent, be effected td etifinteract the evils resulting from the change of 'etirrencY In England. Stith 'it principle had, in his opinion, been sanctidnOtt when the it of the lath Charles 11. was framed Weenie all differences with respect to the property of the City ref London in 1(P16. Thai unparalleled calamity which, according to Stdarc, or those who had continued his history, btu) coveittlit3o acrea with the ruins of houses, of which no fewer than. 13,290 were destroyed. Commissioners were then appointed to adjust the claims of the sufferers. Now, if' the principle of an equitable ad justment were acted upon in .France, and in England after the Fire of London, when the claims tei he satisfied were ne cessarily so difficult of proof and so &Infused front the de: etruction of title-deeds anti other documents in most instancei, he could not but think, that it might not, be possible to act up on it with advantage. His Lordship went into a variety of ' statements to shew the necessity which existed for having re: course to the measure which he had recommended. The prin: ciple he maintained was of very ancient date, for it appeared from Crasar's Commentaries and his Life, that after the wet' between Ctesar and Pompey, money became sir acaree through all Italy, that the people could not pay , their debts, even though they stripped themselves of their all. Inconsequence of thia state of things, Commissioners or Arbiters were clic:kelt to effect an amicable a dj u st men t b e t ween t h e p art i es . hoped this Net • Would have some eflect on one Honourable Alember of that }liaise, at least (3lr. 11. llanko;), who hail published " 'The Citfi and Constitutional liihtory of 'tome," who had spoken in ;aorta to this effect :—" Caisar having un dertook this operation; itthlth was a wise and, salutary mea sure," 'or something like it: After this he' trusted that Hdrt. Gentleman would not hesitate to Vote for the.cquitable adjust, meat now suggested. In France the Prineipla had been a d opt ., ed not only by the French Iteedintittaista, hot in the time of Louis X15.'., us also during the regency of the Duke of leans. His 'Lordship considered this countrY to be at present in a melancholy situation. In his opinion, therdistresa. of t h e agricultural part of the community could not be exaggerat e d. Ile could not anticipate relief from them: Wain any ,MOderate period, and eventually it could OnlY ,otrOlded turoottil still greater 'calamity to others a, dituunition hi * Inti Part food, ' if no remedy were applied of the kind which he had euggeited. If a seareity.of- grain were experienced, would be Mu c h to be deplored, its it would have, the eft:ttet of driving the English people to imitate the Irish •by Hyingt, upon potato cx . That this was an evil he was conYificed,,ana it had afrorded him pleasure to and that it had been T401;1474 as *such in that noose. In COaCiasion, his LOrdallip Sai4ill4 4 1 4,' nut under stand the objections raised against the, adjttstipent.wbieh he was about to proptise, us he desired nothing to be done yhielt, wits not really and truly equitable. 114 concluded by inovlng, as an amendment to the motion before the tiouse, the addition of the following words : " Anil to consider further of the expe diency of providing some ee et edy for the said . eVile ; and, among others, to consider of the preetitability of establishing an equitible adjustment of contracts." lilt. Secretary PL'Ele, after the full debate Which . this strlie ject had received in the last two, nights,.' and after We repeatea discussions which had previously taken place, felt thrtt it would be quite unwarrantable in him to trouble„ the Hindi with a atingle preliminary obeervation, anti that his centldct would be exceedingly . reprehensible, if. he were not at once considerations which must to addreas himself' to those main ' proposed that, at influence every one on this import a nt occasion. The Ilon. lir 11eef for Essex had proposed, on the 12th June, that a Committee should be appointed to entertain a number of the nd cocomplicated inquiries that could occupy body of lie um. tnlheostainfeTiticonnt°olS ay of any this taifitel of the Session, the Committee should "lake into its comadefation the various changes whiciaiad . taken.place in the value Of the currency since 1793, and the effects produced by the reformation of the currency_ on the mon e y i nco me of the coun try derived from industry." He confessed that if he were in the Cdminittee he should not know what was meant by "the effects produced on the money income of the country derived from industry," nor how that Income derived from industry was td be distinguished from income Wowing nut of other sources. The Committee was also '6 to consider of the opera.: tion of the taxes pressing on the arionied income; but. abofe all, it was to inquire into the effects produced by the change in the currency on the money contracts of the country."— Now, he would ask, was it FOSSible to consider of all these subjects, and to come to any decitsion on them in the course of the present Session ? They rdighl prolong the Session two mon t h s if . t h e y pl e ased, and suit to come to any decision VII all these questions would be impracticable. He begged to remind those who favoured this motion, that the donts° hail three times in three Sessions decided that it would not interfere' with the 'treasure Of Mit In ordinary cases the diction of 'the House' aguitat a )particular motion was not to be considered any bar te, the bringing forward of' that motion again. But the present was no' ordinary ease.— Individuahr had been induced to regulate chef, ebncerns by the dettrin?natibn which the House had avowed, and now to take a different course would be to shake all confidence in them, and to make the public feel that no' dependence could be placed on their R eeo lutions. Ile would now apply himself to these considerations. First, Did the general interests of' the country require a revision of the currency; and, secondly, Had indi vidual interests been so injuriously and unjustly affected by the ref6Yrnation of the cuirrettey, as to Lipid the House ax, a duty the task of attempting to effect an' espaitable ad juitment of contracts which had been made. By the gene ral interests of the country he meant those of the manu facturing, the commercial, and agricultural classes. Now, was there any ailing in the' tirosent situation of the manu facturing and contmercial inteiestit which required a revision of the currency? He might even ask the same question with re spect to agriculture. With respect to the manufacturers, was it possible for the Honourable ()exult-111ms opposite not to ad mit that their former predictions (much their satisfaction he had nOtloubt), had been falsified by the eVeni? Ile wax inclined to think that many persons in this caner*" were disposed to be too desponding. Ve were hypochondriac, and apt to think our Constitution w orse t h en i t was , and while the resources and )lower of Engl an d were t h e e dniiration of all the world, we often supposed ourselves reduced to a state of despera: den, and involved in difficulties to which no remedy could be supplied. He Would ask the Members of that House to look at the state of °ter commerce anti manufactures; and see if they presented not decisive indications of the greatest prosperity. Ile knew that some Gentleman mig.lit get up and answer him by stating t hat ho was connected with some part of the ciaintry which was not in tt flourishing state with respect to corethierce otr.manufactaires. But he wished to take mime general standard by whiCh they might judge of the present from the former state of the country. lie, with this view, would direct the attention of the House to the year 1817, a period antecedent to the passing of that much abused law, the Act of 1817.--(Hear, hear!) —He undershoot that cheer from the Learned Gentleman. He kneat that he meant to'inti mate that the same causes were then in operation which were now felt. This he (Al r. Secretary Peelymost fully admitted, but where then were the groutide fethe'clamour raised against the Act of 1819 ? Before the owing of that Bill the swene'evils had been felt. and these lie contended were of necessity produced by that state a timings which followed the Bank Itet " ictit ' n Act at . 1797. TO show what the situation of the country had been in IklY7, he would refer to a most able speech then made by the Honourable and Learned Gentle man opposite. To this he should turn as to a valuable re cord of the distress which then existed in the manufacturing distriets. The argument now walla that the change in. the' , rents had ended all daises SO itS Id `have produCed the greatest distress. Ile wished to *hew that such was not the fact, buiAnk.gi'eat:'endigeneral distress prevailed, before the Act of ' 9 had posed into a law. If he should b e abl e t o prove"d tliklittiodiiiig Masses connecteil with commerce and manufact reVerlialtlinployed, were tatinquil and comfortably enjovino4.4l o lnit frnita o !their induAry, he hoped he might be allpsVett to arlitit,thaf isirelieve these who might still suffer, it v..oulli g fhb{ be 4 w 7 cii"i'U' Winer 'with the Currency. On the 13th of March, 1817, the. Honourable and Learned Gentle man. had lisouitt,.;!'st7ard certain resolutions, which concluded with i le fol °limb one t-L"'Tliat' the Trade and Manufactures of the Country arc reduced' to 'such a state of unexampled depression, m as doande the most serious consideration of this House." In the course of his *peed', the Honourable and Learned Gentleman stated that which fully justifies} the reso lution With WhiCh he had concluded. , Ile;went . through the several - branches of. commerce and manufactures ; h e poin t ed , to, the ttiit'avourable state of the revenue, to th e diS con t ent s whibli p revailed; told argued that if the manufacturing Otiose* were so unfortunately eircutosuinced, it WAS not to be ex pected that agriculture could flourish. He concluded ,one of the branches of his speech with this quotation--" Trade and land," says Mr. Child, " tare each dependant on the other, and so it never goes well with trade hut the land must flourish, nor does it ever go ill with commerce but the land must fall." Ile begged to take the llonourable and Learned Gentleman for his attthority, and to say, that since trade and nuinufac tures flourished these held out a prospect of greater relief to the agriculturist, than could be affintled bjt any proposition to tamper with the currency of the country. The Honourable Gentleman, to ihew the distress which prevailed, had referred to the state in which Leeds and Halifax were then, where he had found that not fewer than one:third of the whole pdpulation were idle; tine not - More than t*d men in nine had full employ. At the beginning of the present year, be (Mr. Secretary P e el) had thought it his duty ni Mike nu:Pries on this subject, and I accordingly addressed letters to all the local and Municipal authorities,desiring information. He would only trouble the House with that which applied to the criterion laid 'down in 1817 by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, by which, to judge of the state of commerce anti manufactures. He would begin with the great clothing districts, Leeds, Huddersfield, !fa k e. and Halifax. Til6 Lion. and. L earned Gentleman find stated in 1817, that out of 3,360 inhabitants of a particular part, only 7117 were in full employ, while 1,164 were wholly idle. From Huddersfield the report was, to the commencemeni of this year, that she working classes we'ra well employed ; that tithes were never so well with them, as Spinniii received 25 shillings per week, and weavers from 18 to 21 shillings, and all were perfectly quiet. Thefe. 441 e great increaie of build: log, and the Pours' rates, whiai In 1815 amounted to 10s. in the pound were brought down by the beginning 'of 11121 to I Us. 4d., and hail subsequently been reduced to 6s. Bd. Ile had also made enqiiiilea with respect to Sheffield, as that, though not in the disirief particularly alluded to, and thou g h no eltithing town, wail important for anOtheE branch of inttuttfy there curried on. In Sheffield he found the poor's rites had in 1820 amounted to 36,0001. In 1821 they had been re: thi4ed to 25,0001.; in 1822 to 19,0001.; and the estinitte for 11123 was only - 13 ,000!. giving a reduction of nearly two Ihirdi of the whole amount from 1820 to 1823. He had inquired about new buildings there, for if these continued to be increased and to he inhabited there could be no doubt that the tenants of them would furniih a valuable market for the agriculturists. To this inquiry the answer given watetlntt at the time of the last census , IWO houses were returned es untenanted, while nosy, though huildin had gOne on to a considerable extent, scarcely a single house seas unoccupied. In Halifax he found that labourers had never been so well off for employment. The Poor.ratei bad been much and gradually reduced, and a great incrcase in the number of houses had taken place, at rents Of from seven to.eight pounds per annum. So much for the clollsinn towns. The Learned Gentleman had than spoken of Birmingliaiii, which he aelected as affording a . fair view of the State of the ikon trade ift that time. Ile' had stated (truly nit doubt) that ciut - of a population of '114,000 pertions, 2,750. were relte*ed front she Poor's Rates. • One.third of the Working claii were out of' employ, the rest but half employed, and the l'oors' !trues amounted to between 60 and 60,00. In the year c l oo B 2l 2f lo , : i i n i.n a to n_swer to his Inquiries, lie (Mr. Secretary Peel)learn ed that the werkinen were well employed—that there were no toluierynelrieneerxe n er o ecn p ted p d e m a p r o o a ut n n i t f e on o c f t disloyalty—and in a single parish 420'neti lid Uses haul been built. The Poore Rates, which in 1817 had amounted to between 50 and 60,00 W., were in 1820, ; in 18 2 1, 111,000!.; in 1822, 47,0001. ; and in 1823, faces,hoprt.wAtillti which hisporiocvt p roved which ch favourablec o mp r eh e nded chan etioa Manchester t e t a r k: n n place d i its in exceedure ? 2 111 0," ca l i . ne no W w er t e o t n h o a t t d m l o es r e e im mediate neighbourhood. The picture drawn by the Learned Gen. (to,lilyti,elasiteitsrett thousandei , de t g t ur o ;ra f it t nat h ugn a adt t ti l hln i de s ieem t r cip i ir e ceerp t ar l ers n nrede l d 8 l o 7. n i t h n a ie d la ta n k el e i n ot t y h , e b p d a t i l i l l e s d to ou a b sc t e et r l ta n i ot n t t r h u e e ti , v e k r l a e g l e iad a m :stated ount t i h n ere woodffei w ere ireakg: t h et ha lf f a million of weavers in that ou th ule, e liadtp w eer isg :rcec e uu t rei pid issze d_ yvne:;_ t el o s, r li e T hi s ,ilr u t4 n t r:i i c e t t r t e t om i s ' deserved attention. In 1800 the average pay of, 4 leaver in,the distrjet referred to w a s 13s. p er wee k ; in 1119 t, it had fallen to 10's. ; in 1012, it declined to 6s. 4d. ; in 1816, to ss. ; hi 1417, to 4s, W. • and in some instan ces , b ut 3s. 3d. WAS the sail of a working man to maintai n hi s f am il y f or a week. T h e Honourable and Learned Gentleman wished not to shock thefeclings of the House unnecessarily. but he felt it his duty to state that in some instances half a pound of oatmeal, with salt and water, was all the sustenance which the weaver tasted through th e day. At night the sufferers retired to bed early, for though they might be employed through tril , night, a man could only earn three halfpence, by. giving up Ina rest:, of which he was obliged to pay a halfpenny for the candle he worked by, and the labour {hum sustained so unfitted him for work in the day that it was deemed better to go to bed than to toil for the penny, Which was all he could get for his night's work. This we the situation of the manufacturer there. He called upon the House to look on that picture, and on this which he hid to present. Now the Manchester cotton trade was greater titan it had ever been known. It was not said that the profits of the manufacturer were very large, but all parties on to that n w e e i r g e h c b o o m ut fo h r ood table th . an M w or a e s b in uil p d r i o n g g re w s a s s la nA ve y r ea g r o . infi rhe people • Iwere tranquil, anti workmen, instead of receiving, as in 1818, ss. 2d. per week, or 3e. 3d. as in 1817, were now paid us fol lows:—Fine spinners got 30e., coarse spinners from 20*. to Ns. r cotton weavers, ten shillings, and Ark weavers, Ills. per week. The Poor Rates in Manchester amounted in 11120 to 27,0001., in 1821 to 23,5001., but in the first three quarters of the year 1822, they did not exceed 15,000/. There was now ttiore employment than ever. In 36 townshipti, no ft4er than 100,000 men were employed. In two years the population in those townships had been increased by 0,000 potions. Look ing at these happy changes, could any one say, that there was any thing In the present state of our commercial or manufac. airing interests whack &ado reMibn of the currency necessary. The real question 14 tbehti to consider was, whether, if the ' distress alleged existqde it proceeded from the restoration of a metallic currency. He admitted that the agricultural int eres t was in a state o depression, but he could not admit that the measure of 1819 had say considerable share in producing it. lie Would take a proof of this from the speech of th e !`lon.Member for Essex (Mr. NV astern) who now came fol Ward with this motion. In 1816, that Hon. (ientiemeh told theni :4oal:v.ld paid no rent at all. This was one of hiSreaolutiont On the sub..; ject of agricultural distress at that time, and it was impositible he could have a stronger argument to convince that Hen. Gentleman time this deprodion did dot proceed from the mea sure of I'ol9.4llear, hear !)—He referred also to a spe ec h o f the Hem and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham), delivered at the same period, fot a must able exposition of the causes, altogether extrinsic a the metallic currency, which oper.ted .to the depression of the agricultural interest. lie there ' pointed out most dearly how the extensive speculations in land, which had brought two' millions of acres in to e Ul t i va . Lion, which haul never been tilled,- must tend that say, us we ll as t he consequent contraction of the circulating medium, from the withdrawal of the war expenditure. Let the House only ' look to the fall in the price of wheat in one year long benne I 181 , 9, as a furtherproof of his position. In 1813, for instance, , the quarter of wheat was 120 s. In January, and in Novernho 1 following it was 745. He cited all these facts to chew thot the , ' agricultoral interest was liable to the operation of causes to. ; P tally unconnected with the change of he standard currenc. ' He considered it equally clear that the restoration of the m e. Lillie currency could not affect the agricultural or other 'tote: rests more than three or four pey cent. if so, the House he , thought would not desire to tamper With the currency again for' the sake of so small a considdittiatt. With regard to the' Bill of 11119', be still considered it was the best step that could be taken under the circumstances ; when the question wait, whe. titer they should' have a new issue of paper, or make that Bite , ration which would place matters upon that footing, the depar. titre front which has caused so many evils to the country. He admitted that there were cases of individual injustice, but these must yield in importance to the general good. He would now (apply himself to some of the arguments of the Noble Lottl op. polite (Lord Folkestone). Hsi tigil them that all he wanted was equitable adjustment, and at led film wiiettier there was not something in the very term to indu'c'e him to embrace it. His answer was, that it was impracticable r and he asked the, Noble Lord in return, how he would discover who w a s, an d who was not, the real creditor or debtor? People mud be called upbtt' to produce their title•deeda, for one might have made hue contract ten days ago, and another ten years. Then again, lio* were they to discover and to arrange' the dif ferent periods of depreciation at which the various sums were borrowed or engaged for ? The Noble Lord said, if I borrowed a pound note at a time when it was only worth 175.-why am I k now to pay 201. ? True; but the Noble boi'd's contracts Were •., . , Made at periiids when the P ou nd note was worth 15s. as well as 17s. and alsd more than 20s. And if haves necessary these should be duly attended to, what standard were they to take to measure the depreciation ? The Noble Lord said the dif ference between the mint and market price of gold was no criterion--how then were they to determine ? One Noble Lord told them, there had been no contracts made lately, and ano ther informed them that' there had been a complete revolution of property within the last two years, affording another proof of the difficulty of applying an approved measure of value. It was impossible they could d o justice to such an undertaking but by proceeding in the manner of a Court of Justice, exa mining title dears, and going into the particular merits of each individual case ; and it really was a pretty summer amuse ment which the Hon. Member had proposed to them on the 13th of June, to revise all contracts sinee 1793. The House having determined in 11121, and twice in 1822, that it would not enter into any such in qu i r y, h ow . cou ld t h ey now assent to it ? The Noble Lord had pointed out orie individual case of hardship, as he asserted; but here again was the difficulty he had all alone pointed out—for how was it possible for them to distinguish betwixt improvident specol.itari and the ening:: in the currency ! The year 1812 was remarkable for bad specula dons, and if dill were to go into all such cases e they would have enough to do. It was for these united reasons, because he saw the flourishing state of the manufacturing interests, from which he hoped more benefit to agriculture, than *sly tunipering with the currency , arid because he d e nie d the competency of that House to rectify one thousandth part of the contracts that had been entered into since 1793, that lie gave his most unqualified opposition.id the niou.—(Loitd cheering.) Mr. BESNET cog d not, on a question of such magnitude, give a silent. Vote. 3 ucfi as lie admired many of the sound argumeas of the Right lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, lie regretted he should resort to technicality for a defence.— One of his arguments against thiS notion was, the time of the year; but that he thought would appear wi.h an ill grace be fore the country, when it remembered that they had sat in equally unseasonable periods, toWarths matters of fraud and forgery.—( Hear !)—The Right Gentlenian told them that the Manufacturing Interest was flourishing; but were not wanes low—did the poor labourer benefit? But the Agricul tdrists he benevolently left to themselves, and truly it appeared that in another cycle they might rttcover. The prices ot 1818, it was titre, were high ; but then they we re p a per pri c es, an d produced by an inordinate issue of paper money. To ascer tain the real state of the country at present, they had nothing to do but to compare the amount of poor-rates now, with the amount for sonic other year. For instance, in 1812, the poor rates in paper currency amounted to 6,000,056/., and for the year 1822, in metallic currency, it was as nearly as possible the same. Now, he. Contended, that three millions now would purchase as much of the commodities necessary for the exist. ence of the poor, as six millions would in 11112, whence it was evident that the country was twice as poor at present as it was in 1812. It was in this gtmcral way that this question was to be. viewed, and not With reference only to partial interests. l.et them look at the impoverished state ot Ireland, where prices were reduced to Whit was never known before, and yet the rift ple were starviqg for Want of die Small means of purchasing the necessaries of life. There were differences of opinion he knew respecting the extent of depriiiiation, as well as npon other parts of this subject; but these he held were so reason,' to entering upon investigation. 3lr. IJEJSKISSON said, he had expected that the Member tor Essex would haie followed die example of the Hon.. Member for 6onterset (air T. Lethbridge), and have abandon ed the enseasonablo motion he had thought fit to bring forward. Certainly had he not been so personally allotted to in the de- , bate he should not have trespassed on the time of the House. He really did tunic that in proportion as the country had ex isted long in a state of restored metallic currency, it would be difficult to find reasons fur returning to thut state of currency from whichrhey had departed. But still, if he could think the evils of their situation were of st ch magnitude as they were led 4 t h h e r g rounds w ould dnsi put.a k e fordsany s f a o c r r t i z m t o o t i ogetmotion vriasd one, e t , h_ : 0 71 4 every interest in the country was in a state o i r ‘ e m pr o es n e gs nt t ed o distress, and the lion. Member for Shrewsbury told them t h at the poor rates of the present time were double what they were in 1812. From thin he inferred that the country was twice as( poor; but did,not the lion. Member leave entirely out of sight that, since 1812, our population hea increased to the extent of two millions ? Besides which, if it were triie, as he state d, that three millions now would pprehese what six millions w ould Le required to purchase in 1812, wai not that, a reason why the ar,riculturists of the present day ought not to complain ot any little abatement of rent ? '1 lie Motion of the lion. Mem ber. for Essex was, for a revision of all contracts for money sines the year 1703. But, before they could enter upon such a task, it was absolutely necessary for them to settle upon sonic stand ard by which to try the varying depreciation of different years from that period. Upon this no one could be found to agree with another. Neither was tilde tiny thing to shew that the depreciation began in 1793. What reason, he asked, was there fur such a supposition ? If it were to be ascertained by a re ference to the fineness and weight of the metal with altering his' eutrency, there W was no ground for it. lie had been charged opinion relative to corn ; but be still niaintained that if at present corn did not afford the British grower u rem u n era t: ing price, it would net.hing inconsistent.i in that with what he h a d mai ntained : still .go higher than 170. T here was and the consumers of this country must not expect to be sup plied in esatifiroaance at present prices. When persons talked of the price of corn being taken as a standard of value, they must leave out of their recollections the great variations and fluctuatidos as tried by the money mealtime to which that article watt Subject. He thought his Noble Friend was inclined to look at the question with teference to tbp rent of. land, and he hid stated the depreciation to be 25 or 3O per cent. It might be so : he (Mr. II.) believed it was; bit then, it wash, he remembered that rents had doubled during the war, so that this was, at most, bur a depreciation of 30 per cent. upon doubled rents. This &Bend him from the apprehension expressed by his Noble Friend, as to the destruction of thin Aristocracy. The House mutt look at the landholder in the abstract, and at the' fundholder in the abstract. If they looked at individual, oesft att ended tpteeei speculation. laotr t ito h i en o r. s e t ol w vp h hu o e s en e . cases on one side, they must do so in the other. The great evil which had attended the derangement of the currency, so far as sh l: a o e t w t e t r ial n e lso a:t i e tt :t i t i li alt a g t t 11 1 i w s s speculat ors, latora, and as liable to estates were charged by circumstances which they could not all ce°ithnala t t l rir ce eanic t. t -o ; n dti t l i lle n a'rnhl e odu n slueo c s : w es t his Noble Friend expressed Ins fetes that refit would fail alto gether, he surely forgot that English land always produced a greater rent than any other land of the same description. The Marquis of numi FIELD explained ; but so as not to be heard. Mr. HUSKISSON resumed, He should consider the int.' poverishment of the Aristocracy as an evil of tude; but he had no conception t h at t h e rental oletlaitellialant; proprietors would be consumed merely by the alteration or the currency. Undoubtedly there were m an y cases o f dif ficulty; bu: he was sure h is Noble Friend had too high a sense of justice to think of relieving one class at the ex. pence of another. The Noble Lord opposite had talked of the case with which an equitable adjustment could be ef fected ; but really the illustrations which he put skewed that it was impossible to effect it. Something had been said about the Court of Chancery i but, if this proposal were to be adopted, they must have more Courts of Chancery than they rani had public houses.—.(A laugh !)—Universal confusio would be the necessary and immediate result; all contidtne between man and man would be destroyed. If we once brelei in upon the rights of property, we should lose the beet eel . r. rity by which we now endeavoured to maintain them. tau 11'4 Noble Friend had held out something like a clipped loc4nly '" beirt a proper means of remedying the evil; and he par.i. cularly said that lie would pay the Public Servants of thtf Crown in thifttlipped. money. And, as allusion had been par.' denier!) , made to himself, he begged to inform his Noble Friend' ahtit the salary of his office hail been lessened 25 pei cent., within a few years, end that it was now less than it was 15tf years ago. It was therefore rather hard for his Noble Friend tO propose making him a present of this clipped money.—; (A laugh !)—The fact, however, was that the curr e n c y h a d' been at last e s tablish e d, and the argument was, that public Inconvenience would follow froth an alteration Of it. Much indeed had bear A& Of depreciation ; but holy could dem: ciatibh be understood or determined except by reference to current value ?—(Hear, hear !)—He had not only not de. :lied, he had even argued, that there was a diminution of valhe; but if this were to be allowed as a reason for such an inquiry as that which was now proposed, there would be no end to inquiry. They must go Intl the whole system of country banking, and appoint a Standing Committee for every possible adjustment. If they were to a 4 upon this principle, they would be at the'itilAq, not of the Bank of England alone, but of every , foreign' State.America, , for instance,' might hake large quantities of paper, and affect the value of our own cur rency. The Act of 181x9 had been described as a Calamity ; but it had been proved that this Act had had no influence on' the price of commodity, in the w a y i n which ' that sherd doh wits argued'. That Act had shut the door against future fluctuation, and that was what had been intended. The price of commodity always adjusted itself. Low prices might write ineiettied cOnsumption ; but increased consumption would lesson supply, and then the price would revive.—(Hear !)—lle Would particular not go into all th e points' whiCh had been winced ; but he re a lly cou ld not forbear expressing his surprise that his Nobl e F r i en d should stinpose this count!) , was so crippled that she could notod't6 war. He was convinced that the amount of th e taxes repealed, only repealed since the war. were alone sufficient tb'form a fund for the maintenance of the honour of the country. And there was no one of those taxes. grievous as thiy Admitv e d they were; which the country would not willingly bearclor the' Preservation of its rights and the f