The Sun. — London, England, 1812-04-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLLIMPIVI. HOUSE OF PEERS. MONDAY, APRIL 13. Counsel were fin - dly heard in the Scots Appeal Cause, M4Nair•v. Fleming, viz. Sir Samuel Ro as second Counsel for the Respondent, and the Solicitor General on the part of the Appellant, in reply, The LORD CHANcELLOR made a variety of ob servations on the pecoliar nature of the case, and concluded, by proposing, with a view to its being ascertained whether the decision in this case was re (cognised by the subsequent practice and decisions of the Courts below, that this and aunt her case con beded therewith, ,before their Lor%:ships, should be reserved for further consideration until this day se'n- Pight. The Earl of KtNNout presented a Petition from the City of Perth, in Scotland, praying, for the rea oss asigned therein, to ne admitted to, a partici- Patton in the East India trade. The Petition being lead by the Clerk',-was, on his Lordship's motion, ordered to lie on the lahle. On the question for the third reading of the Cat- Vater Harbour Improvtruent Bill, Counsel (Mr. -Adam) was heard in support of the Petition against th e amisure. Thr LORD CHANCELLOR, however,'being of opi l'ich 1. ,tt th , allegations of the Petirion were of too gehr, I: nature,, and not SUdiCirotly specific and ihstivi4, the, Counsd were ordered to withdraw, ono was forthwith read a third time, and passed. The Eact of Wellington's Annatv Bill was, alter a few words ;ruin 11)- Duke of NORFOLK, read a thud time, and pa.st , d. The MilitAry Inquiry Bill , vent _through a Comtniitee of the whole House, and was re pored. The Re'p o ll of the Committee on the Pilchard Fishery Bill, atncuding peri-d. of the !hit's du ration, by altering hr date trom 180 g, as sent.up, to 18 tg, vv.o l agired to by the House. The teinai , ing 13:11s bc+lg forwarded, their Lord ships adjourned till to-iiiorrow. • ROUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, APRIL 13. The' Report of the - Committee on the Lords' Aniendinenis to the Local Mili!ia Bill w4s brou;ht The SPEAKER informed the House, that the Committee recommended it to them in thcir Re- Port to agree in all the intend rents blot one, which was to this eff.Ct :—The Bill, a; pas•ed by the C ommo directed Returns to be made br the Con • stablei to tire Clerk e Peace, turd, r a certain .e "iiity. The amendment of the Lords went to c ,...1 14 61, that the fit-turns sh-uld :•Iso toe made to the "rnmanderi under the same pen a l y. The House qComi-noncould not agree to such an enadtnent %)tning from the Lords. He, therefore, suggested t he appointment of a COmmittee to frame an, ar• I `'er to the Lords, stating the grounds on which th eir amendment was rtjeth-d. The Committee J' Whom 'the .Report was made, wa' apt.nirltrA to manage the - c o nference with their Lordships. Mr. CuawEN, ,in consequence of - the t pinions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and other Gentle men, who were Members of thfe Committee of 1795 and 1800, on the inexpediency of agioning the sms jea on which he had given a notice - (ine question on the scate-;ty of Corn), was induced to wave his own opinion, and accordingly withdraw his notice. On the second reading of the Devon County Rate /lilt, some discussion arose, in which Colonel BAS., TA RD , Sir C. POLE,, Mr. CURa•EN, Sir J. GRA SAM, and other Honourable Members participatvd, In amendment was moved, which went- to twit tiff the second reading of the Bill to that day six Rion! hs. On a division, the numbers were understood to be, Enr the original motion 5 2 For the amendment - 39 Majority - 13 The Bill was then read a second time. EAST INDIA CHARTER. A Petition was presented from Wolverhampton, against the East India monopoly. Lord A. HAMILTON wished to know if the Right Ron. Gentleman opposite was able to state when be should bring f .rward his plan for the renewal of • the East India Charter ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER expelled to be able to bring it forward in the week after next. tie thought in the early pin of the week. Lord FOLKESTONE wished to know in what for m he intended to bring the . subjea before the douse ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had already stated what, were his ideas on the subje&. He should move for a Committee of the whole House, and in that CoMmittee propose ceitain resolutions, which, if agreed to, would form the basis of the Bill to be brought . in. The Petition was ordered to lie on the Table. LINEN MANUFACTURES OF IRELAND. Mr. STEWART expressed apprehensions at the danger to which the Manufaetures of Ireland were likely to be exposed by the licensed importation of linen, lawn, and cambric, from France. , TheMa nufattures in the North of Ireland were not now in the most flourishing state, and such importations, he feared, would do them great injury. He hoped - that the Right Hon. - Gentleman had some informa tion to give him on this subjea, that would relieve his anxiety. Mr. W. POLE was happy to be able to do so. He then went into a statement of the duties upon the importation of the articles - mentioned into Great Britain, and of the drawbacks allowed on their be ing re-exported. The importation of lawn into Ireland be stated to be altogether prohibited. The law, he contended, was not at all altered by the li censes granted, and he did not conceive that any danger was thence to be apprehended by the manu faaures of Ireland. The Committee on the Irish Population Bill was Postponed to Friday. • A message from the Lords announced their Lord shil s assent to the Honduras Trade 8.11, and several other Bills. '\l ( kl. Mr. Jloss presented en Estimate of the Expen- dilore for the RoyaJ Naval Asylum. Ordered co lie on the table. - Mr. WHARTON presented a return of the number of Persons Prosecuted for Forging the Currency of the Realm, which was ordered to be printed. CAPTAIN KING. The Order of the Day being read . for resuming the debate on the motion for Papers relative to the Case of Captain King ; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER expressed hitosyll reidy to agree to the motion, if the Nob Lord 11,0 no objeation to the produdion of certain counter memorials, for which he proposed. 'Lord FOLKSTONE hid no objection to the pro duttion of t(ne Papers mentioned, as-lie was confi dent the more the case was looked into the stronger it would appear. _ _ The Pipers originally moved for wire, then order ed to be laid before the House; as also the counter memorials,or answers to the same ; the latter, on the molion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Sir H. POPHAM then moved that there be laid be fore the House a copy of the attestation of Lord Bar ham, attached to the memorial of Sir Home Pop ham, and presented to the King in Council—copies of the opinions of the Board of Admiralty on a refer ence to the Privy Council—and of all orders from the Boardlof Admiralty to the .Navy Board to pay Sir Home . Ponhatn.as a flag officer ; copies of the opi nion,. of the law officers, on the \ subjett of the Bue-• nos Apes Prize , 'lnoney ; as also the memorials of Captains Toulmin and King.:--Ordered. The Committee on the Bankrupt Members' Bill etas postponed to Wednesday. Thu House then resolvea itself into a COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY._ _ _ Mr. WHARTON brought forward ihe Barrack Es timates. He stared the excess of the Estimates over those of las , year to be considerable .; but at the same lime assured the •Committee that every regard had been had to economy, and every endeavour made to les,en the expense, He then went into, a Variety or derails, which were not distinctly audible in the gallery, and concluded by moving . , " That d sum nor ext., e.tinc , 524,4411. he ; ranted to defray the expences of the Barrack Department of Great Britain," Mr. FREEMANTLE thought the stalemen; of the Hon. Gentl-..man was no Ira satisfactory, and 'nought tarteer explanation wasiiecesiary. It seen - ed there was nearly an annual expenditure of 900,0001. in the Barr D•vartment, and there were works in progress which were not included-in these- estimates. Some of the items appeared to h+m very h:gh. 138,5001. appeared - tor Barrack, for the 2d regiotent of Lite - Guards. He put it to the f - fousel this was he- time at which they mtg . ,' t o . by , called upon to vote .near 140,0001. for barracks for one regiment of Life Guards. To • him such a vote at such a time would ptove a profligate waste of money.- Th.. estimated expense of erecting bar racks at Liverpool was 82,p001. He thought at a pe riod like the present, Ole House should pause . be tote they gave near 100,0001. for such a purpose.- 20,3001. was put down for stabling at Brighton a;rd here again he would ask, it a grant of near 30,0001. should be galled on for such au account :The Honourable Gentleman proceeded -to notice various items. in the estimates which he thought charged too high, and called on the Hun. Gentleman opposite . for tat the, exelanation. Mr. WHARTON explained to .t he Committee, on the points to which his attention liadbren Hon. G.tor. hail slated that there were work s in progress which did not appear in - these schedules. He (Mr. W.) was much mistaken if any nt t h e buildings in progress, or intended to he put in pro gress, were omitted in the papers before the Corn. mittee. The estimated expense of the bairacks fOr the Lite Guards was great, he knew, but the s u bj e d had had the greatest conoderation. It was, how ever; a necessary expense, as the lease of the tem porary barracks they. Occupied at present, had ex pired, and it was with much difficulty that the use of them ciuld be obtained for the present 4 even at an advanced price. Every possible care had been taken since the institution of the present Board to lessen the expense, and he was happy to say their exertions had been crowned with success. The stabling for cavalry at Brighton he contended via's necessary if troops were to be kept there, and would answer a double purpose, as it would serve for a fence to the line of building already erected. Mr. HUSILISSON said, that in former years, not only new barracks, but many other new .buildings, were'proposed by the military, which the Treasury did not think it right to adopt, yet the men were, notwithstanding, sufficiently accommodated. The building at Mary-le-bone Park would stand at the rate of 4 5 01: for every horse, and, atter all, he sus• speeled it would be one of those auk ward attempts at magnificence, neither •a stable or a palace, but - a something between both. Could not the French prisoners at Bristol be accommodatrd at a less ex pence than sixty thousand pounds, and all necessary means taken for security ? But the real question was, whether, under all the circumstances, there were not expences which might be poitponed without in convenience ? If the Right Uon. wai anxious that the )ear's expence-should not fall short of 100,000,0001. there were other ways in which he might continue to dispose of it ; in fact it was by looking to establishments of this kind that we could hope to effea advantageous retrenchments, and to meet those demands which did not admit of delay. He was still of the same opinion he had en tertained when connected with the Treasury, that such undertakings might be postponed, or, it under taken, executed at less expence. Mr. DARN ELL thought the Committee should he sitate to agree to the , proposed estimates, particular ly when they refleaed that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would come down t-o the Hopse in a tew days for the purpose of proposing additional taxes. He obje&ed to.the item of 5,0261. to the Commissioners for examining General Delancey's accounts. Mr. WHARTON . 'aisured his Hon. Frierid (Mr. Huskisson) that the good custom of not attending to all that was required by the Military Dipariment still continued in the Treasury, and also that the necessity for building barracks was gleater- no A: than formerly. If he looked to the estimates on former occasions of a similar nature, he would find they were not less, and he had every reason to hope that the expence in the present instance would be within the estimate. It wac also proper to remark that the barracks now building were not the same as the old barracks in Kinz-street, where horses alone could bu iccbrnmoAateJ, the men being obliged to beelistri bated in various parts of the town, He did not think the Barracks at Bristol could be estimated at less than slily thousand pounds, in order ,to accora modate the treope which - would be necessary to watch over the French prisoners. In like manner the investigation Of General Delancey's' account could not be cOridiraed at less expence, and was likely to produce material benefit. Mr. HusreisSoleXplained, The CHANCELLOR of the Exetteattrae said, that the barracks used•someyears ago were for infantry, but these were intended for horse guards. The Government having been ejeded from the barraCks ' of which they were in possession; were obliged to grant to the lessor an additional rent ofgeol a year additional, to give time for the building of new ones, in which it,was thought right that both Man and horse shoull be accommodated. He would appeal to 'ad those who had witnessed the late disturbantes, whether it was convenient that the horse should be in one place, and the men in the other. The Hon. Gentleman imagined that it would be a work of bad taste, but he could assure him !hit he was not Con scious of any unnecesary expence. With respell to the barracks at Bristol, it would be hard to ascer tain what sort of building it should be which was to last during the war,, it that was a principle of limit , ation which the House Would be inehiled to adopt. If a barrack was to be built there, considering the extent and population of the town, considering also the accommodation it ,weld afford to the military pasting to and from Ireland, he thought it should not be built upon any parsimonious scale. The mo ney which was thrown away under this denominas lion of expendittire, was chiefly applied . to the pur- , chase of temporary barracks, which were now un der repair. As to Liverpool, it was considered to be a great inconvenience that there should be no bat rack there, and as to the expedient of hiring the earehouses for that purpose, he hardly thought that Government would be justified in taking advantage, as it were, of the temporary suspensiOn" of trade in that place. Mr. WHITBREAD said that the Right Honourable. Gentlemen appeared to him- to have adopted errone ous views on the stabled, when he thought of such little conseaeuence to separate the soldiers from the people, mid to be surprised at any objeaion to a grant for that purpose. The Right Honourable Gentleman .had not argued that general question ; 'the time wes gone by„ but he would declare it as his sentiment, that he was extremely jealous, and he was sure the country at large was jealous of that separating.system. It hadlbeen said,' that great ad vantage,wA likely to bp derived from the labours of the Commissioners appointed to audit General Delaucey's accounts. Perhaps, at the end of four or five years, if the Country should exist so long under such .financiers, that advantage would . greatlyL increase with the praaiCei which rendered it neces sary. But whence did this advantage arise ? what , was the necessity - under which thiS boasted saving was made ? 'The want of care in the controuling power. Toe negligence and mismanagement of those who, by prober application, ought to have prevented the occurrence of cols, instead of leaving es to be obliged to the Commissioners for the as certainment of their extent. It was expected that if the Corn,eissioners, proceeded, many other defalca tions would appear. To him ibis was not consoling. The Honourable Gentleman below him (we Under stood him to allude to Mr. Huskissoe), had stated once that the Chancellor of the Eichequer was the vietim of the dela irtments, and the public were given to understand that ,the Right Honourable Gen tleman had , left the Treasury through disgest at the want of a sufficient controul. Bet did the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of tie Ex chequer) think that he wanted a military controul over the people of this country? Even at the end , of the wari which the "Right Honourable Ge.ntleman seemed to think would last long;-and while, he was sure would last as long as the career of the Right Ho noerable Gentleman, would it be necessary for us to look forward toThe prosped of Overawing them ? We's this a principle to be maintained ? Did any One ever hear a Minister coolly assert it ? 'But the Right Honourable Gentleman disapproved of the idea of applying any of the - warehouses of Lit erpool to the pet-pose of accommodating the military. He who bad made the loom useless, and the warehouSe idle,. who had spread starvation and discontent, had disapproved of that which appeared to him a natural course of proceeding—that of filling the warehouses with soldiers for the purpose of controuling the people under the inflictions which he had brought on them and on the country. But it had been said that there were French prisoners - at Bristel. He would answer, so there had for the last twenty yeaes. But even if the Right Hon. Gentleman had been endeavouring to make the expence come up to an hundred millions, did he think, or could he think, that for three years 'more the country could go on as it was now going ? If things pro ceeded as they were proceeding at present, if ex peaces continued to accumulate, and means to di minish, they must look for relief to a peace with the enemy, a peace which his tiLeasures had render ed unavoidable. In the transactions of past years he saw many weal and glorious opportunities of ending this war neglected and lest,while, at present, the system of the Right Hon. Gentleman was cal culated to produce the necessity of peace by sub mission.—But why was it necessary that the hOrse and the soldier should be more together now than at any other time ? D:d any reason exist now that did not exist before, why the soldier and the general population of the country should be kept apart, or why barracks, which lie had always regarded incon formity with the opinions of the most constitutional authorities, as fortresses for controuling the king dom, should be multiplied and enlarged ? As to the policy of it, merely with regard to the soldier, he understood that when the men were on service, those who came from reguttr barracks were not so healthful as othets, so that even military purposes were-our likely to be served by it. One of.the most lavish expellees under this head was incurred by the po , eaase of old houses at Clifton, in a ruined state, without a window ; but now we were going _back to Bristol again to guard the French prisoners.— Would to God (exclaimed_ Mr. Whitbread) sthat they were all out of this country, whether we con tinue at war or not He concluded with repeating his determinatiop to vote against the Resolution:, The CHANCELLOR of th e EXCHEQUER said, that the Hon. Gentleman must be positive indeed upon the subjea, and confirmed in the opinion he had formed, when he thought it right not only to cen. sure the conduet of _his Majesty's. Government, but to vote against the Resolutions before the Como tnittee. Mr. WHiTaaaAb, in explanation, stated that his objedion went only to the grant for building bar racks. The Cat sarscSetott of the EXCIIEQUER proceed ed to observe, that to refuse it without knowitee whether the soldiers could be otherwise aceommoa dated, might be produCtive of Much inCorivenience. He supposed, however, that by the debating strain which the Horn Gentleman had thought proper to adopt, and the topics to which he had resorted, has expected to do much towards tranquilizing the euuntry. When he brought forward his argumenis i attributing the starvation he described to the nits .conduti of Government, did he really think there was any thing in their tnanner of conducting the war against France, which ope►ated to produce the scarcity at Liverpool ? Did he' think there was any chips in it to call down the vengeance of Providence on our heads, and provoke hire's to deny the harvest .to our hopes If not; how could the Honourable Gentleman ,shut his eyes. to what every - man could see but himself; arrd resort to those imputations, which no than wh'o was acquainted with the subject could hesitate to reject? He would own that in some inflammatorypublications he had met withsome topics to which the Hon. Gent. had alluded; but he did not expert that any Member could be found who would come to that House for the purpose of making such statements. The Hon. Gent. had spoken -ofgolden opportunities for making peace, which Ministect had negleCted ; but he did not say, he could not say, whether one of those opportunities presented itself now; and if no such opportunity existed, where was the policy in asserting. that there was tin 'salvatiOn• for the country, but in peace ? It would be impossible for him to say so much against• the peace he recommended, as by saying that we were unable to go on with the war. The Hon. Gentle man had always before said, that he would not ac cept of peace but upon' honourable terms. If then peace could not be obtained on honourable terms, there was, according to the Hon. Gentleman's own feelings, and the feelings of the country, but one al , ternative. Why then should the Hon. gentleman give the sanetton of his authority to the opinion,. that the war could not' be cenduCted, and that we were only to look for consolation to the event of the enemy granting us peace ? Nothing could he more iin i .roper, nothing more unjust, no thing more dangerous to the security of the country, or more calculated to inflame the minds of the people under .the present high price of provie skins, than flinging nut opinions of this sort to the disadvantage of the, great contest in which we were engaged. He would'maintain, and he thought the Hooourable Gentleman might have been included amongst the number of those who would insist upon the same dodrine, that if we could not obtain peace (Ton honourable terms, we must maintain the war at all hazards, and under all ciicumwances, and to the last extremity. As to what has been said of his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) in• tention to keep the people dOwn by a nail Lary force, when-he bad drivel! them to madness by his po licy, hewould ask, where was the proot ?-10 that candour of mind, in which he hoped-the Henoeee able Gentleman was not deficient, he might have acknowledged, for he must have known, that it• was at least a matter of set ious doubt, whether all the difficulties experienced in our trade, would not have been aggravated if they we►e not met by the Orders in Conned. In two years after the , adoption of those Orders, this fact was demonstrat ed by an increase of our trade: Yet the Honour 'able Gentleman went on with his old proof, or rather with his old .statement, in defiance of this striking fact, and insisted that our sufferings were treat" owing to the Decrees of the enemy, but to our own Or ders in Council.. It this was logic, he was sure it Was not a Jogic which the Honourable Gentleman would apply to any other subject ; this confusion of cause and effe&, this anticipation of consequence over the means which produced it, could, in no other than a poljtical case, have warped the clear mind of the Hou. Gentleman. But if he was right in sup posing that the effeas which preceded the Decrees were not to be ascribed to it, how was it fair to re present them as the act of our own Government ? Was this his wisdom, was this his policy, was this his patriotism ) The'reasoning of time Hon. Gentleman would go to turn all the resentment not against the enemy, but against the Governmen:; and that too at a time when we were engaged its war with an enemy who, if the Hon. Gentleman . was not aware, intended our destrution, he must be ignorant of what is known to every body else. From this'country he had tnet with lass most effec tual check in the pursuit of his boundless ambition, and in his progress to universal empire, and universal tyranny, his certain disappointment. If the Hon. Gentleman did not see this, and he trusted in God that he did not, when he called upon the country -notjo look to Buonapaite and to France, but to its own Government, with indignation, and ascribed ,the inflictions of Providence to them alone e if he did not see this, but could make such statements with a convielion that he was doing right, 'he was sure that such sentiments would meet with little sympathy and little suppot t. Mr. WiirriitEAp rose, evidently in great agita^ tion ; and-began by declaring, .that if it was not in that House, he would ask the warmest friend, or the loudest cheerer of the Right Hon. Gentleman, whether the whole of his speech was not a gross misrepresentation O---The Right Hon. Gentleman was mistaken ; if he supposed that he obtained.a victory over him. No;, it was a victory ovet his own invention. The House orCorumn:4s was a fine place—the Constitution of England was a great thing,--every thing was to be admired, respected,: and supported, when an adventurer from the Bar was raised by his talent for debate to a great situ ation, but a great situation which nobody but him self could have accepted under the circumstances. The CHANCELLOR . Of Ibe\EXCHEGIJER here signi fied his dissent from the statement. that nobody would hat e accepttul the situation but himself. Mr. WHITBREAD repeated the statement, main tained the truth of it, and adtled, " If you doubt me, I refer You for information to a letter signed Spencer Perceval." [Loud cries of Order from all parts of the House followed this expression, and Mr. Whitbread ata tempted for some time in vain to be heard]. Mr. YORKE then rose to order, but- the tucluilt