The Sun. — London, England, 1846-08-11 00:00:00

Aa eveisw eotou is well from the pockets of the wealthy as the poor Pensioner. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that some misapprehension seemed to exist on the subject. The mea sure which the Hon. Gentleman proposed to alter was introduced at a time when it was the greatest boon to the soldier. At the time it was brought forward all persons were paid at the end of the year. He assured 'he Hun. Gentleman that the sub ject should receive the consideration of her Majesty's Govern ment, but it was impossible fur him to gu further than this de claration. Captain L AYARD said, that under these circumstances, he would withdraw his motion. After a few words from Mr. P. HOWARD, the motion was Withdrawn. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The Home then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr. GBACZNE in the Chair. Colonel ANSON then moved that a sum not exceedii.g 575,670/. be granted to her Majesty for pay, allowance, and contingencies of Ordnance Military Corps. After a few observations from Mr. Williams, Mr. Bernal, Air. B. Escott, and others, the vote was agreed to. The next vote proposed was 340,981/. for the commissariat and barrack supplies for her Majesty's forces, great coats for the army, clothing for the colonial corps, &c. This vote, after an irregular discussion in reference to the barrack accommodation at Hong-Kong and other settlements abroad, was also agreed to. The following votes were then agreed to :- 94,903/., to defray the expense of the Ordnance-office. 223,025/,, to defray the expenses of the ordnance and barrack establishments in the United Kingdom and colonies. 125,3921., wages of artificers and labourers in the United Kingdom and colonies. 390,1841 to defray the expenses of ordnance stores for land and sea service. 611,946/. for work?, buildings, and repairs. 60,969/. for the scientific branch. - -- 120,459/. was voted to defray the non-effective services, military and civil, for three-quarters of a year. The resolutions were then agreed to, and the House re sumed. REVENUE. Mr. MOFFATT wished to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer what article it was proposed to levy a duty upon to make up for' the deficiency which would be caused in the revenue by the reduction and equalisation a the sugar duties ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not prepared to say what the article was on which the duty was in tended to be substituted. It would be exceedingly incon venient to say at present what that article was, and, consider ing the difficulties attending the subject, he thought the best course would be to defer naming the article till next session. GAME-LAWS. Mr. COLLETT said, seeing the Member for Vest Glou cestershire in his blare, he wished to ask him whether it was the intention of the Hon. Gentleman to bring the subject of which he had given notice before the House, or whether he was to bring forward the grounds of the allusions to him (Mr. Cel lett)? He would certainly be present, but he wished to know 'what the Hon. Nlem her meant to do. Mr. G. BERKELEY said he certainly meant to bring the subject of the game-laws b fore the House, and would allude to all who had lent their aid to bring those laws into con tempt.— (Laughter.) ARMS (IRELAND) BILL. On the order of the day being read for reading this Bill a second time, Mr. LA BOUC HERE said he wished to take the discussion on this Bill, and the second reading of it, on Wednesday, as several were absent whom he thought would better be present. Mr. T. DUNCOM BE expressed his amazement at the course proposed to be pursued by the Government. He won dered especially who those gentlemen were for whom the dis. cussion had been postponed. Mr. L ABOUCHERE thought it would be better for all parties that the second reading should be postponed, that all night have due notice, and especially the Irish Members. He was afraid also that it would be late before the House could enter upon it ; but, if it was the wish of the House, he had no objection to bring on the second reading to-night. CUSTOMS DU TIES ACT. On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Haute went into Committe on the Customs Duties. On the article spirits being read, Mr. MACKINNON said he begged to press the motion of which he had given notice, on the eeualisation of duties on colonial spirits with British spirits. In Ireland the duties were 2s. Bd. ; in Scotland, 3s. 4ti. ; and In England, 95. 4d. The consequence was, there was a differential duty between England, Scotland, anti Ireland. He asked the Government why they should violate the principle wl.ich they had recog nised in the Sugar Bill ? Nay, more, recognised in a late measure, which admitted spirits made from sugar in the Channel islands, at a lower rate than spirits from the colonies. That only encouraged a monopoly, which discouraged the co lonial trade. He should wait till he heard what the Govern ment would say on the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Hon. Member was under no obligee ion of apologising for the intro duction of the subject On which he had occupied the attention of the House. It was one of great importance. With regard ro the duty imposed on colonial rum, the difference between the duty imposed en it and British spirits was made, he would not say whether rightly or wrongly, in order to equalise the fiscal burdens upon the two classes of producers. It was quite clear that colonial rum should not be admitted on the same duty as British spirits, when they considered that there was a duty on the raw material of the latter—malt, which was not imposed on the raw material of the former. He was perfectly willing, equal burdens and fiscal impositions considered, to place colo nial spirits on the same footing as British spirits ; and it was in the spirit of this proposition that the present alteration was submitted. If this change was not a sufficient equalisation between the two products, he would do what he could hereafter to make it so. With regard to the duty imposed on Irish or Scotch spirits, when the duty was high, continual at tempts were made to evade the duty, anti illicit distillation prevailed to a great extent. But since the reduction of the duty had taken place, illicit distillation had almost ceased, while the consumption of regularly produced spirits had greatly in creased. The present duty, therefore, was as high in each country as could be, without giving great encouragement to illicit distillation. The facilities for evading the revenue in Scotland and Ireland, from the nature of the countries, were so great that it would be impossible safely to retain any higher duty than the rates now imposed. In England the spirit duty was regulated according to the circumstances of the country, and if it was higher, smuggling would inevitably prevail to a great extent. There was a large amount of unprotected coast in England, especially in the west, and to raise the duty higher, would be to offer the greatest inducements to smuggling. He did not throw out these observations as an answer to the objections of the Hon. Gentleman, but rather to show that great care and considera tion should be observed before any change was made. Tee Hon. Member concluded by a review of the scales of duties mposed on British spirits, at various periods from 1802, with he object of illustrating the course of argument he had been ursuing with regard to the duties that should be imposed. Mr. HUME was satisfied with the exptanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman with regard to English spirits, but he was not so satisfied with that relating to Scotland and Ireland. He could not see any reason why the people of these two countries should be obliged to pay more for colonial rum than they paid for whisky. Mr. GOULBURN would take the proposal of the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) as an in stalment of what was due to the colonies. In the year 1830 he had occasion (being then Chancellor of the Exchequer) to re vise the whole subject, and proposed an additional duty of Is. upon British spirit. Corn was then subject to a higher duty than it was by the existing tariff, and then it would be three years hence. Unfortunately, he was unable to carry his ar rangement into effect. With respect to the differential duties of Scotland and England, he thought there were departmental difficulties in the way of their equalisation ; but these were not insuperable. He considered that in consequence of the disad vantage under which the West Indian colonies laboured by the recent measure, which affected their interests, to adopt the proposed reduction on rum was an instalment of what they were justly entitled to. He thought, therefore, the equalisation of the duties on rum and British spirits was a measure to which they were entitled in accordance with every principle of justice. Mr. P. M. STEWART told the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to proceed in the course he had commenced. He deprecated the anomaly which existed between the duti es en I r i s h an d S cotc h spirits, and contended that on one article, drawing a revenue of five millions yearly, such a principle should not be applied. He hoped they would not attempt to settle the sugar question without eqnalising the duties on rum and British spirits, and regulating the supply of labour, two measures which the West Indies were entitled to in consequence of the measure which had lately passed for the equalisation of the sugar duties. Mr. BERNAL said, if the West Indies and British Guiana were to be considered as integral parts of the British empire, there was no reason why their commodities should not be allowed to come in on the principle of competition with the same commodities the produce of the United Kingdom. He said 'ne would not say a word on West Indian grievances, all he would say was, do justice to the colonies and the West Indian interest. He remembered well that the landed interest in this country was always made the foundation of these differ ential duties ; but he hoped the House would deal with the sugar grower as they had done with the corn grower, and equalise the duties. Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to explain, and said all that he meant was that some time was necessary for the Govern ment to consider this question, lest injustice might be done to any parties. It was certainly his wish to avoid this, and he hoped his Hon. Friend would allow the Government time to take it into their consideration. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in answer to a remark from Hr. Goulburn, said that the duties in the tariff, of this year, were put down exclusive of the 5 per cent. Mr. GOtILBU RN said when rum was put in the schedule reduced to Bs. 10d ,he hoped the Chancello r of the Exchequer was aware there was a 4d. additional to the nine shillings of the former tariff. He wished to know whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer was aware that he might only be reducing the duties on that account by merely 2d. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he understood the suggestion, and would see that his intention was attained. Mr. MACKINNON then withdrew his motion. The several articles were then gone through and agreed to. The report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. The House then resumed. ARMS (IRELAND) BILL. On the order of the day for the second reading of this Bill being read, Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was with extreme reluctance that he rose to move the second reading of this Bill ; but that feeling, he said, did not arise from the Bill as a whole, for the Government, and he agreed with it, was of opinion that this Bill was necessary for the well-being of Ireland. He did not agree with all the provision s of this Bill, and had he been con sulted on it, he could never have been a a party to the introduc tion of it into the House.--( Hear, he.lr.) But he hoped to show the House that it was perfectly in consistency with this opinion that he rose to move the House to pass the measure for so limited a period as would g i ve the Government time to con sider what might be the best course to take in the Govern anent of Ireland. He said the House would agree with him in this, that it would be no fart of a wise po li c y to have the peace and s ecur i ty of that country g ,larded. He said t h is was net a continuan ce Bil t ; the Go vernmentun- in that respect had adopted a most novel course, ior it came into the House, and asked it to pass thi s B ill only till the E:•st of May next, that v it might have time t o consider the opt. pursued on this He did net know any other coursee°urle the Government could have question, as th e of policy it sh ould a d terms of the Bill made it imperative that the whole question should be fully considered early in the next session of Parlia ment. It m i g ht h av e been said,ruby not withdraw the p resent Arms Bill, and introduce the Arms Bill previously in opera. tion ? B ut h e had o bj ec ti on s to that Bill , greate r ob j e ctions than he h a d to t h e present one , a nd, therefore, the best course he thought w , uld be to renew the Big for the short period he named. Whil e h e proposed t hi s, his objections to the present Bill, w hi ch he ha d state d on a former occasion. still remained, both as regarded the re gistering of arms and " brandin g ." Wi t h regard to, t h e f or mer, the re gistrations were ov er , an d no harm coul d ar i se from that clause between now and next M ay ; an d w ith regar d to branding that hail already taken place. No harm could there fore arise from the continuance of the Bill for nine months oneer. By so doing her Majesty's 0 , vernment would have the opportunity of fully considering the question. A great deal in the meantime would depend on the way in which the Government would carry the provisions ‘at . the Act into opera. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, - AUGUST 11, 15146. tion, and while he pledged himself that it would be carried eut in the least objectionable manner, he must bear his testimony as to the forbearing way in which the late Government had carried its provisions into effect. He would, theref re, merely as a temporary arrangement, move that the Bill be read a second time. Mr. HUME said the easiest way for the Right Hon. Member to have met the difficulty would have been to allow the Bill to drop altogether.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had not given the shadow of a reason for the continuance of the Bill. He admitted that the Bill had been a failure, and yet he asked the House to consent to the continuance of this bad Bill for nine months longer. The only argument used was, " I have confidence in her Majesty's Ministers," as to the way the provisions of the Bill shall be carried into effect. But he would not consent to place the question on that tenure, and he considered the Government would do itself great injury if it adopted and carried out this 1301. He had a greater re spect for h, r Majesty's Ministers than they had for themselves, and be wished to save them from attempting auy further ccer cion. The Noble Lord at the head of the Governm en t hi mse lf moved that the branding clause should b e ex p unge d f rom t h e Bill, and yet he now sought to perpetuate the measure which he then condemned. He would advise her Majesty's Govern ment to drop coercion and try conciliation ; and, depend upon it, tl.ey would find that much more advantageous for the wel fare and peace of Ireland. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time this day month. The amendment being seconded, Mr. SHAW denied there was any thing coercive in the Bill. The principal clauses objected to were inoperative now—those relating to registration and branding ; and, therefore, there could he oo objection to acceding to the request of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland. The course pro posed by the Government was the most reasonable that, under present circumstances, could be adopted. • Mr. BICK HAM ESCOTT said if the Bill had been found troublesome, useless, and expensive, as asserted by the Hon. Member, who had just sat down, he would ask where was the necessity for re-enacting it now ? He could not understand the motive for bringing it forward again. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, gave no l i reason for passing this tyrannical Bill, or why the constitutional rights of the Irish people should be handed over to the exec t tive Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman trail them three years ago, that it was the custom of the executive Go vernment to resort too much to their unconstitutional proceed ings. If that was his opinion, then, and if it was as he called it, a tyrannical measure, why did he now, when he passed over to the other side of the House, propose and support what he then so violently and unhesitatirgly condemned? No man pretending to common honesty could adopt such a course. Fur his own part he called upon the House to reject the Bill. Mr. MUNTZ sa'd that public men were at great discount now, he might say that they were at Birmingham discount, 75 per cent.—(Laughter.) And he thought that the late change which had taken place in the opinions of the men who composed the present Government, as compared with those which they held when they were on the other side of the House, would not tend to raise them in the estimation of the country. He thought he would be degrading and disgracing himself by supporting the present Government in this measure, though he was gene rally in the habit of supporting them. Mr. SHARMA N CR A WFORD condemned the Bill. He thought that the branding system was very disgraceful ; and entertaining as he did the views with which he formerly re garded it, he would vote against it. Mr. REDHEAD YORKE would reluctantly vote against the Government; but, to be consistent with the opinions which he formerly expressed, he must oppose them on the present oc as i on . Mr. BELLEW would vote a:ainst the Bill. The Govern ment were inconsistent with regard to it, and he would oppose them. Mr. PIGOTT supported the Bill. The Recorder for Dub lin had truly stated that all the mischief of the Bill was oast. The greater portion of the arms had been registered. During the last six months very few registers had taken place. He called upon the House to allow the Government time to consi der the whole subject, as he believed that, under all the circum stances, such a cuurse would be most expedient. Mr. HORSMAN said his regret at the introduction of this Bill formerly was greatly increased on this occasion. The members of the Government, when out of office, had opposed this measure—had said that coercive measures had been a signal failure, but now, vil.en in office, they not only abstained not from such measures, but they adopted them. This was surely infatuation; certainly it was humiliat.og to the Right Hon. Gentlemen to uphold what they had previously opposed. He said he could not give the measure his support. Sir J. FERGUSON said he would certainly support the measure. Mr. B. ORBORNE said he could not understand the dis tinctions which were to he drawn in this legislation between England and Ireland; that English people were to he allowed to use their powder without restriction, and the Irish were not. The Government came in with protestations of good-will to Ireland, and a wish to destroy distinctions between that and this country, but here, with a measure which was not be queathed to them, they contradicted their own previous pre tensions. The Bill was not bequeathed to them. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) hod said that the Bill was entirely a faiitire. Why, then, he asked, should the Govern. ment allow this Bill to remai.i on the statute-book? He would certainly give the measure his opeosit ion. Mr. T. DUNCOM BE thought the Noble Lord, who by some means or other was considered the Prime Minister in that House—( Laughter)—would have occasion to explain his votes. He had, a few nights ago, asked the Noble Lord on what principles he meant to carry on the Government. The Noble Lord talked about everything except what would have been an answer to his question, and said at last he would carry on the Government on the principles which he had al ways advocated. What? Was it thus that he was to carry out the principles advocated by him in 1843? By a measure like this—a measure which he supposed they were to pass as a tribute to their predecessors, whom they had turned out of office on the principle of non-coercion for Ireland. They had turned them out, and now the first act et the Government was an Act of coercion. One Hon. Member had called this a piece of infatu ation; it was a measure which would have died of itself, arid no one would have hoard of it. For his part, considering what would be said in Conciliation Hall, that here another Saxon Parliament had passed another Coercion Bill, he would stand to th.• last in his place and oppose it. Mr. P ROT HEROE might have, under other circumstances, voted against the Arms Bilk, but, at present, he must support the Government. He believed if the present Government was thrown out there would be no chance of getting a Minis try so well disposed to do justice to Ireland. Lord MORPETH claimed no gratitude for himself in rela tion to Ireland, as he had on various occasions proposed Arms Bills to Parliament, but he did so on those occasions from a pressure of necessity. The Hnn. Member ( Mr. Duncombe) spoke very harshly in relation to the members of the Government in voting against the coercion, and proposing the prese,t mea sure. Now, there was this difference in the two case; while they objected to the plan proposed in the Coercion Sill for tran quillising Ireland, it did not follow that they were against all regulations applicable to the proceedings of the people of Ire land. He, for one, was n , t prepared to say that Ireland could do al:ogether without some form of an Arms Bill, and some measure to regulate the sale of gunpowder ; and while they objected to many of the provisions of the present Bill, all they asked i,f the House was to continue it a little longer, in order that the whole question might be considered, and that a measure might be digested, which would be more in accordance with the feelings of the people of Ireland, and cal culated, with the measures that might be proposed, to improve the general condition of that country.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. SPOONER thought the proposition of the Govern ment a very fair and reasonable one, and it had his most un qualified approbation. Lord JOE-IN RUSSELL rose, after the various attacks made on him by Hon. Members, to occupy the House a short time as to his consistency, and as to the provisions of the Bill. Now, in preparing the present Bill, he had only one of two courses left him to pursue—either to propose the Bill as it stood, or to throw it out altogether. Had he dons the latter, he would have acted more inconsistently than he had done in bring ing forward the proposition for the continuance of the measure. When the measure was previously before the House, the Bill submitted contained two parts ; one providing for the regis tration of arms, and the other had relation to the sale and transfer of gunpowder. There were two main objects sought to be obtained by the Bill, and he gave them his support in 1843, reserving to himself the right of proposing amendments when in Committee. It was, therefore, perfectly consistent in him now to support what he oid in 1843, and for ten years before. He, therefore, in 1843, voted for the Bill going into Committee, and when-in Committee, he otjecied to the branding clause, though even that clause was not so tyran nical as represented to be. He was defeated in his attempt to improve the Bill in Committee, and, in consequence. he aban doned all further opposition to the progress of the measure. He had now, therefore, to choose between a continuance of the Bill, containing, he admitted, certain very objectionable clauses, and giving it up altogether. He adhered to the former course, as he did not think the power conferred by the Bill should be entirely taken away From all the consideration he had given the subject, he was not prepared to take upon him pelf the responsibility of abandoning the measure altogether. If there was any particular objection to the clauses, as they were now on the second reading, why not reserve their opposition till they went into Comtnittee, when the obnoxious clauses might be considered. He believed that without this Bill, life and property would not be safe next winter in Ireland, and, believ ing that, he could not shrink from his duty in proposing the second reading of the Bill. Should the House reject the Bill, he felt persuaded that many of these degraded characters, whose proceedings they read of in the Irish papers, would think they had an impunity to do what crimes they ileased. An Hon. 3110111EK—Then the Bill is to be permanent in that case. Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not say that it would be per manent on that account. What he meant was that the sud den withdrawal of the Bill would have the effect he stet d on the minds of those unhappy creatures. He was ready to incur all the unpopularity which the proposal of this measure might entail on the present Government. but a regard for the necessities of Ireland required that he should propels its temporary continuance. He should be very glad when the time for altering the Bill came, but at present he hoped the House would sanction the course which the Go vernment proposed to pursue. Lord SEYMOUR would vote for the Bill if the Noble Lord tJohn Russell) would promise to expunge the clauses to which he objected when he sat on the other side of the House. .Mr. MILDMAY came down to the House t o support the Bill, but in consequence of the arguments brought forward by the Treasury Bench in support of the measure he was deter mined to oppose it. The Noble Lord, the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, said that there was no time to consider the Bill with a view to its alteration; and ct. that account tht ught it would be better to propose its temporary continuance. As, however, the Government themselves thought the measure ebjne.tionable—(Laughter)—he could not sanction the course pursued by the Government with regard to it. Mr. GOULBURN would support the Bill. The late Go vernment had thought the present Bill necessary, and as he considered the same circumstance which called for the Bill still existed, he would support the Government. Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to the Hon. Member behind him ( Lord Seymour), had no objection to accede to the ex punging of the objectionable clauses. Mr. WAWN would oppose the Bill, and he believed the conduct of the Government with regard to the measure most inconsistent. Mr. COLLETT thought the Bill uncalled for, unneceszary, inapplicable, and ineffic.aious. The Noble Ltrd frequently ob jected to the sliding-scale of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth ; he had, however, followed that Right Hon. Gentleman with regard to flogging in the army, which he proposed to continue during the life of the Duke of Wellington —(Laughter)—and he now proposed to try the sliding scale with regard to the present measure. He would, therefore, oppose the second reading of this Bill. Colonel SIBTHORP would adopt the same course now as he did when the Bill was last before the House. He would never support a truckling Government. If a stringent measure was considered necessary, why not at onee bring in a c°erel 110 mß Us ll e The then divided, when there appeared, For the ame or n re d ieit m uye e si n nte t df ... , . thuart 23 :.• • * of: , ...... •" • • Againtt it he 56 M. ESCOT M V printed. form er Bill 9 .-- ho 3 u 3 id be Lord JOHN RUSSELL consented, Mr. T. DUNCONIBE said it was generally understood tEa' certain objectionable clauses were to be emitted ; in delseft they v r er tz. al vo tes had been given the Noble Lordoiall en that ground. little o nd. I were excluded, be would give the Gwrwn bie. He hoped, and he saw no reason against it, that Ireland and England would be governed on equal principles. How ever, the Noble Lord had nut yet said lie atonicl exclude. those clauses ; he had merely said to the Hon. 'Member Opposite, that he would take it into consideration. But all knew what that meant. Lord J. RUSSELL said the question proposed wi.s a d f - cult une, and it might require consideration ; but he would con sent to the exclusion of the clauces question. Mr. HUME said if he had heard the same from the Noble Lord sooner. be would not have divided the House on the subject. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted on Monday next. FORMS (ASSESSED TAXES) BILL. This Bill wan read a third time and passed. PUBLIC WORKS (ADVANCES) BILL. The report on this Bill was brought up and agreed to. CONSTABULARY (IRELAND) BILL. The report on this Bill was brought up. WILLIAMS' could not agree to the mode in which the public money was to be appropriated under this Bill. Mr HUME objected to the charge, and felt inclined to take the sense of the House upon it. He believed the advance of the money would be no relief to Ireland. Mr. CABOUCHERE defended the vote, and stated it would cause great dissatisfaction in Ireland if the vote was withheld. 'f be report was then received and adopted. THE COUNTY WORKS PRESENTMENTS (IRELAND) (N,.2) BILL. The Report of this Bill, after a very few remarks from Mr. Hume, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and some other Hon. Members, was received and agreed to. DRAINAGE OF LANDS BILL. The report of this Bill was brought up and received, and several additional clauses to the Bill added by way of rider agreed to. FLOGGING IN THE ARMY. Mr. B. ESCOTT wished to know if the Noble Lord had any jection to lay on the table a return of persons flogged in the army in Great Britain and Ireland, in the years 1845 and 1846 to the end of July; specifying, 1. fhe offence. 2. The regiment, the place of station, the time. 3. The sentence. 4. The order for its execution. 5. Whether the trials were open to the public, or only open to the regiment, or with closed doom 6. The number of lashes inflicted, and the day. 7. }low soon after punishment the man was able to return to his duty, and at what plat- he was then quartered. 5. Whether death had followed within twelve wonths of the flogging, and the date of such death. 9. Whether the punishment was iiiflic!ed, if in cavalry regiments, by the ti umpeter or farriers; if in infantry regiments, by the privates or drummers, anc with what instrument. 10. Copies of the surgeon's minutes of all such punishments, and any subsequent observations on their con3equences. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he had an objection to the motion in its prQsent Air. 13. ESCOFT then said he would postpone it till a future time. SUNDAY TRADING. Mr. lIINDLEY moved the first reading of a Bill for the regulation of Sunday trading. Mr. C. BERKELEY moved as an amendment that the Bill be read a first time that day three months. After a few words from Colonel SIBTHORP, strangers were ordered to withdraw fi,r a division. But tin re being but four, een Members in the House, it was counted out at half past Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, August 10. The Earl of Stra FTESZU AV took his seat upon the Woolsack at Five o'cle•;k, when several Bills were brought up and laid upon the table. On the motion of the Earl of CLARENDON, several Bills received a first and second read'ng. POOR REMOVAL BILL. Lord ASHBURTON presented Several petitions, amongst of hers, one from Hampshire, complaining that ihe proposed mea ,ure, in reference to the removal of the poor, was a most imper fect measure, and calculated to do the greatest injury to the petitioners. LIVERPOOL, ORMSKIRK, AND PRESTON RA M IN A Y. presented s t e h l e i t e c , o , m a p p a e n n y t The Earl of ST. GERMANS laid upon th e t a bl e o f th e House a repo r t o f a S e l ect Committee appointed int L o n t r l d ie s fa r et A s N al L le E ge y d to inquire ion from a corporation of tailors of Dublin against the Exclusive Privilege of Trading ( Ireland) Bill. Lord CAMPI3ELL laid on the table of the House a report from her Majesty's Commissioners of Woods and Forests with respect to the new Houses of Parliament. POOR REMOVAL BILL. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the chair man, vice-chairman, and board of guardians of the Leicester union, complaining of the inefficiency and injustice of this Bill. SUGAR DUTIES CONTINUANCE BILL (No. 3.) Lord CLARENDON then rose to move the first reading of this Bill, and hoped that their Lordships would, in accordance with the usual practice, permit the Bill to be read a first time. It was, as their Lord ships were aware, customary to discourage any explana tion which could lead to a debate, reserving such debate until the second reading, but after the consideration which had been given to the measure, and that their Lordships were prepared to discuss the measure, if he asked their Lordships' leave to depart from that course on the p event oc casion, he could assure their Lordships it was from no wish to interfere with the practice of the House, or to establish a precedent, which, he was sure their Lordships would always continue to sanction, and still less so be cause he had not, on the part of the Government, any intention to prevent a full discussion of the question. At the present late period of the session, it was desirable that their should be no unavoidable delay. He would refrain from any details on the subject, because with those all their Lordships must be familiar, and upon the principle of which they had already formed an opi nion. He trusted that those opinions might not be adverse to this Bill, and that it might be allowed to pass without oppo sition. But even if he were certain of the votes which they would give on this question, he felt that he should be wanting in respect to their Lordships, and he should be improperly discharging his duty, if he did not lay before their Lordship the grounds upon which her Majesty'e Government asked them to grant a measure which involved considerations as various as the principles of the measure were interesting to the country. He must, therefore, for a short time trespass upon their indulgence wh.lst he briefly discharged the duty which devolved upon him. The princi ples of the present Bill had been sanctioned by the policy of the Government and Legislature during the last four years. Parliament had ceased to legislate for particular interests, and had adopted what might b-s considered, he thought, a principle of Rational benefit ; and the system of protection, or rather non protection, might be looked upon as settled and, he might ven ture to add, for ever abolished. He would, therefore, say no more on that part ot the subject, but content himself by expressing his confidence, that as their Lordships had declared ultim,tely to withdraw protection from British agriculture, that they should not refuse to adopt the same policy towards the colonies, and consequently not 'eject the principle of the corn-law measure which a few weeks ago received the sanction of their Lordships. He was further induced to feel this confidence because he relied upon the consistency of that House, and because he was fully assured that no political changes would induce their Lordships to depart from the principle which, under such circumstances, they had adopted. He also felt this confidence, because a departure from the course he pointed out would be injurious to the great mass of the people. as it would prevent them from obtaining one of the first neces saries of life at a mederate rate. Besides the rejection of the measure would be injurious to the revenue, and, above all, its rejection would inflict great injury on those classes of our fellow-countrs men with whose interests its welfare was bound up—he meant the British consumer ; and he must add that upon this question, to them so important, they had exhibited the greatest moderation.--( Hear, h ear .) He included in this Colonial merchants, who call for nothing beyond that which their countrymen here enjoyed. From the moment when they understo o d th a t th e abolition of the corn-laws was settled here, they also understood that the time had come when there should be no difference between sugar, the produce of slave, and sugar the produce of free labour.—( Heer.) But they considered that the worst thing that could happen to them would be to leave the question in that state of uncer tainty which had occurred from year to year on ac count of the annual discussion of the subject of the sugar duties by Parliament—a course which fre qtently rendered their business fruitless and devoid of profit, because it was impossible to apply their capital and ma chinery to the best advantage. They looked anxiously forward fur a final settlement of this question. They were induced to look, in this state of things, to the great amount of dif ferential duties, together with all the sums paid for the eman cipati• n of the slaves, wh;ch had imposed upon this coun try 42,000,00 W. daring the last eleven or twelve years. He would show, with reference to sugar, that Parliament had inflicted a constant, unnecessary, and cruel injustice. Forty years ago, when the whole population and wealth of this coun try was less then than at present, the consumption of sugar was estitnatad at 301bs. by some persons and by others at 22ibs. per head, and this was no exaggerated allowance, for the humblest classes of this country atipresent were allowed 2211b5. per head, and the consumption for the sailor in her Majesty's navy was 341 b. 3ox. But, notwithstanding the in crease in the wealth and population of the country, and in the improved mode of living, the present average amount was little more than Itilbs, per bead. But even this gave no correct estimate of the consumption with reference to the labouring classes. The price of the article had made no alteration in the consumption by the rich and middling classes, the former of whom consumed 601bs. per head, and the latter 371b5., while the amount left to be divided among the poorer and labouring classes did not amount to more than 81bs. per head, or 180 per cent. below the pauper and !he convict, and 300 per cent. below that of the common sailor. In order to show what was the power of consumption of this article, he would tell their Lordships, from a return whish he held in his hands, that in New South Wales the annual con sumption of sugar amounted to 104 pounds per head. If their Lordships referred to any of the various tables which had been submitted, showing the wages of the labouring man, they would find that the allowance was not more than three or four ounces per head per week. This might be sneered at by the philanthropist of the negro race, and they might say this was a necessary state of things ; but he looked upon it as a disgrace to any Parliament that they should thus deprive, by the existing liws, the poorer and the unprotected classes of the country of the means of procuring an article which, with the exception of bread, was capable of a mere useful, nutritious, and extensive consump tion than any other articles imported into this country. lie begged to call their attention to the course to be pursued in that respect. In 1821 the duty on colonial coffee was Is., on East India coffee Is. (id., and sin foreign coffee 10s. In 1825 the duties were 6(1., 9,1., and Is. 3d. In 1835 the duties on colonial and East Indian coffees were equalised, and the duty on the foreign coffee remained the same. In 1844 the duty on foreign coffee was red uce d to i std. The consumption n 1821 was seven millions of pounds, in 1831 it was 22 millions, in 1841 it was 28 millions, and in 1835 it was 34 millions, and the increase of revenue was from 340,021/. to 718.000/. The consumption of tea in 1821 was 22 millions, in 1831 it was 29 millions, in 1841 it was 3t; millions, and it, 1845 it was 44 millions. The revenue, in 1821, was 3,200,0001, and in 1845 it was 4,800,000/. Then they came to the consumption of suger. In 1821 it was 4,000,000 cwt., in 1831 it was 4,000,000 cwt., in 1841 it was 4,000,000 cwt., in 1844 it was 4,000,000 cwt., and in 1845 it was 5,000,000 cwt. The revenue en sugar from 1823 to 1845 varied from 5,500,000/. to 3,800,000/. The price of sugar had varied very little during the last 17 years, the lowest price being 1/. 3s. 8,1., and the highest 21. Os. bid—the population during that period havi n g i n c rease d f o ur millio ns , a n d th e consum pti on having remained nearly stationary. Under these circum stances, he hoped th at t h e H ouse wou ld agree w i t h hi m t h at the time had now arriv e d w h en th ese d u t ies s h ou ld b e p l ace d on a more liberal and a firmer basis. ! bat ha I been the object of her Majesty's Government, with a due re. gard to the interest of the British producers, to the exigencies of the revenue, and the wants of the people. He trusted that he should be able to show to the House that such an alteration would be for the benefit of the public and the consumer. From 1841 the duty has been reduced to 14'. The consequence had been that there was an increased amount in the consumption of augur in this country. while, under the former system, it could not be shown that any advantages resulted to the planter himself, si 1 t hat th e labourer derived no advantage from the ; y stem 1. 4, ; t - isted. He did not glow - that: s:a (is, t - ev am): of production of the commodity. It did not appear, there fore, that any advantage resulted from these iliff , rential duties. It had led to attempts at gain which were nut justified, and the confident p edictione that were uttered at the time had not been file - Lied. In 18:24, when Mr. Huskisson admitted foreigu iron, it was broadly stated that every furnace in the country would he b:own out. But what was the result ? Why he believed the produce at that time was about 300,000 tons a year, while now it was fully 1,8:10,000 tons. The same prin ciple held good with regard to the Colonists in our British West Indies. Only let them do away with these differential duties-- only let them do away with this uncertainty respecting the duties which are to be charged—only let there be a sufficient assurance of the immigration of labour, and both planters and labourers worst(' alike partake of the benefit, and would easily accommodate themselves to the circumstances and in no way be injured by the change. By a report which had been re ceived from Sir John Hawkins, which had been read in the other House, it appeared on the representation of the worihy Baronet that, at a meeting of the East, India and the East India and China Association, called expressly to consider this very question, a resolution had been unanimously come to, that if there were a sufficient supply of labour, the colonists would have no reason at all to apprehend the change. It should be recollected that there was still an advantage preserved to the colonists, and that no trifling or insignificant advantage. The protection reserved to them even under the new duties—( Hear, hear)—in the first year would be equal to 50 per cent. in the second year 43 per cent., in the third year 32 per cent., is the fourth year 21 per cent., and in the fifth year 10 per cent. Lord STANLEY—But how does that affect foreign sugars? The Earl of CLARENDON—The duty under the present arrangement would lie 21s. ; the colonists desired 233. 4d. It was desirable that the price of sugar with the duty should not be more than 455., if the consumption were to be extended so as to ensure the benefit to the labourer and the security of the revenue. The price of foreign sugar on an average was 245. 4d, which, with the duty of 23,e 3d., was about 475. 7d., being about 2s. 70. more than the desired rate. The price cf British Colonial sugar was, during the year, duty included, 505.; that is, 365. for the net price, and, with the duty and clearance, making up the rate he had just stated. But this was in some degree owing to the deficient crops of last year. These two sugars had found their level, and British colonial sugar was now selling at the level price in the market. And as to the quantity which may be expected, he was very far from attaching any undue consequence to the statements which had been made, but he could only say that the statement which he now made was collected from the best sources, and framed with the greatest care, to prevent exag geration. From the present time to the sth of July, 1847, there would be about 2,000,100 cwt. ; in the second year, about 40,000,000 cwt. in the third year, 240,00e,000 cwt.; in the fourth year, 260,000,000 cwt.; and in the fifth year, 270,000,000 cwt. Then, with respect to the revenue, the result would be found to be equally satisfac tory ; for when it is considered how necessary it is, for the safety and honour of the country. to maintain our esta blishments in a proper manner, and befitting this country, such a consideration must have great weight. The revenue of the two successive years would be 4,e00,000/., that of the present year was 3.800,000/ , and in the filth year it would be 5.000,000 e He would now come to the question whether her Majesty's Government were warranted or justified in preeceing to their Lord.hips this measure, as far as it would affset the slave trade.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") In the first ;dive, (said his Lordship, with much warmth) I must beg leave to say that I yield not to my Noble and Learned Friend, or any man living, in abhorrence and detestation of that inhuman practice—( Cries of " Hear, hear")—and that there is no sacrifice, nor any risk, that I would not incur in order to put a stop to it, if I thought that we could check this system by perseverance in the course we have hitherto pur sued, and in making any alteration in our diffe rential duties, I would not yield to any man in my exertions to put an end to the system. I should consider no risk, nor no sacrifice too great for such an object, but, at the same time, my Lords, I should require to know the amount of success that has followed our previous policy. —( Hear.) At the same time that we restricted the comforts of our people and the receipts of our Exchequer, did we put an end to this traffic in human beings? At the time we imposed our prohibitory duties, and those privations upon our people, and that we exposed ourselves to injury, I ask you, my Lords, what was the result of our efforts? Could they (continued his Lordship) after calmly and dispassionately reviewing the past—could they say that they had succeeded in abolishing slavery, notwithstanding all their great risks and their gseat sacrifices, and their collisions with foreign nation+ ? ( Hear, hear.) It was notorious that during the last thirty years they had not— not wi hstanding their unabated energy and courage in their struggles to put down the system —they had net, in fact, succeeded in doing anything. He was sure their Lordships must still bear in mind that eloquent and powerful speech which had been ad dreseed to their Lordships a few weeks ago by his Noble and Learned Lord opposite (Lord Brougham) on the sub ject of slavery. That Noble and Learned Lord alluded, in the course of his speech, to the great efforts of Napoleon to put down a particular system. hut as Napoleon had failed in that object, so had we failed in our attempts to abolish the system of slavery. They had made treaties with every maritime power in the world, with the view of abolishing that system. The naval powers of this country had been brought to bear against the system; they hail dimi nished their revenue, and they had imposed privations on the people, and they had quarrelled with some of their best cus tomers and allies —( Hear, hear.) They had coerced the weak, and succumbed to the powerful nations of the world, in respect of the slavery question, and yet they had not succeeded in their objects.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") [he Noble Lord, who at times was scarcely audible in the gallery, then went on to say, that by returns it appeared that seventy-five vessels engaged in the slave-trade were misled last year. Da not let their Lordships reluse to adopt measures now proposed, however much they might have been committed against them, when the necessity for them was not so great—do not let them refuse to deal as they should with that worst of contrabands—slavery. He did not believe, irrespective of the idle dreamers in political economy, that any injurious result would accrue from the adoption of this mea sure. He did think that the means were within their g r a sp of adopting a better principle with respect to free and slave labour, because, in the first place, it did away with the disparity between the labour of the slave and free man ; and if protection, as their Lordships had affirmed, was injurious to agriculture, the same arguments would apply to sugar. —(Hear, hear. ) He did not, in saying this, state an opinion ansupported by practical men, or a problem which could not be easily solved, for he was affirming that principle which practical men in India, and in this country, were anxious to see carried out, because, it was well known that free labour competed upon equal terms with slave labour its all the markets of the world. The Noble Lord then referred to a speech of a Mr. Burnett, a respec - able landowner of Trinidad, at a great agricultural meeting in that colony, which was attended by art immense number of elanters. at which he said the removal of the restriction on sugar and labour was ab so'utely necessary in order that they might tra le unrestricted with all the world— ( Hear)—irrespective of the colour of the labourers by whom the sugar was produced.—( Hear. ) He would go still further, and quote the evidence of General Plinter, and his Noble Friend opposite would see by his statements that his fear that free labour could never be able to compete with slave labour was groundless. (The Noble Earl then proceeded to read an extract from General Plinter's works, from which it appeared that a free labourer could work for a longer period in the field than a slave labourer.) The proprietor who em • ploved free labour had not to sink his capital in the pur chase of slaves, nor had he to contend with the losses consequent upon their death or illness. It also appeared that coffee, indigo, and other tropical productions could be produced in the colonies by free labour at a much le s s cost than by the employment of slave-labour. It was al-o evident that - free labour was more profitable than slave labour, from the fact that estates in the West Indio+, worked only by slaves, did not pay a shilling upon their capital ; whereas, estates worked by free labour, or partially by free labour, yielded a fair return for the capital invested. He thought it would be far more profitable to work these estates by free than slave labour. But the profits were not to be derived by a system of protection. by a proprietary living at home in their ea-e, and leaving their estates to he managed by agent., whose interests were by no means identical with the proprietors, but by an improved system of agriculture, by the application of skill, capital, and machinery, which was pre pared to be sent from this country as soon as this question was finally settled, and the capitalists knew what they had to do. Then, and then only, would their colonies be able to defy the slave trade, by underselling the slaveowner, and bring about that state of things which nothing but the wealth and the intelligence of this country was able to produce. He would go further, and say that the present mo ment was one peculiarly favourable, and the condition of the two great slave-dealing countries would most mates rially assist in the experiment. The revolution of slaves three years ago in Cuba had left a powerful impres sion and the greatest feeling of alarm in the minds of the white population of Cuba, and he was convinced t hat, although their mo tives were different, their abhorrence of the slave-trade was at this moms nt hardly inferior to their own. In proof of this he would refer to communications from Beta and the Brazils, de ca trine- that they would rather suffer a diminution of their agri cultural interest titan be exposed in their lives and properties. The consumption of sugar had, during the last few years, sin gularly increased in Europe. It hail taken place principally in Busses. Along the shores of the Mediterranean ; it had taken place in the states of the Zolverein, anti still more in the United States of America. In the states of the Z ilverein, in 1840, there tea; introduced 30.000 tons of sugar, and in 1844, 61,000. With respect to the Visited States, he hail no ac counts upon which he could r, ly ; hut front official documents it appeared that in 1840 there were imported 4t3 001,090 IN. of sugar and 15,000,01)0 lbs of molasses, while in 1844 there were 111,000,000 lbs. of ground sugar and 194,000,000 lbs. of molasses Now, from what had taken place in the country to \vied) he had alluded, there was a convincing proof that an increased demand for sugar had been met by a greater consumption of labour. It was, therefore, high time for them to make their increased demand, which he felt a ssured would tend to amelio rate the condition of the slave. They should then be better entitled to meet the charges that had been made against them by foreign nations.—( Hear, hear. ) Sugar was the single ex. ception to the maxim observed of the dealing with slave-dealing countries, which had been Adopted universally in all other arti cles. It should be recollected that all the slave-growing coun tries were slave-dealing countries It should also be rec dieeted that this was a measure of protection; a measure not so much to exclude tee produce of slave-dealing countries, but to reduce the slave trade itself. He could not understand how any ex ception could be made to slave dealing for one object and not for another. If it were not so, why not object to th e s l ave trade of the United State:, where slavery existed in all the meat brutal and demoralising features which it had ever exhi bited, and infinitely more than had ever been seen in the Bra zils. Yet that had been done with slave-holding America Why, in 1835, this importation of cotton wool was 2,840,000 lbs. ; and, in 1845, it was 600,000,0001b5. Then with re spent to tobacco. In 1835 the importation was 25 0)0,000 lbs. ; and, in 1845, it was 39,000,000A55. We claimed to be a more moral and religious nation than any other, and yet we were thus indirectly encouraging th e slave trade in all its most odi o us forms. Why, if they were to reject thi s Bill, they would be writing the most bitter and grieveus satire against many o f their late acts, and w ould be doine mu c h t o y retard the very thi n g which they so loudl Professed to d es i re. Why should they adopt this principle with respect to sug ar and with respect to no other article which is pro lneed by slave labour ? It was a perfect fatuity to attem p t to stop the slave trade by simply throwing a che ck u p on su g a r alone. They' had done no such thing. They had laid a low duty in order to increase the quantity which th e y received, a nd they made a sacrifice of 800,0001. in order to admit this sam e pol luted cotton free. What has been the practice of this c oun t ry with regard to tobacco? Had they endeavoured to admit the tobacco cf the United States at a lower duty than that of Cey lon ? No ; hut they had forbidden its production, both at home and in their colonies, in order that they mi g ht o f twelve hundred p er be enabled to lay a duty cent. upon tobacco coming froth the slave growing states. 1 so much, and to w hich Inian raaize, from which they ex pecte they had made no objection, was equally cultivated by slave labour as su,sar —( Hear, hear) —and the r e were a great m an y other producti o n; w hi c h were equally labor i ous to be cultist Jed as sugar ; arr ow roo t i s qu i te as I t b o rious —indigo is more labo rious__( Hear, h ear )-- r i ce i s i n fi n itely more destructive of human life. Before he concluded he came to the production of copper prod uce ; an d fi rst o f a ll he would mention the cruel ties exercised i n th e product i ons o f copper. T h e slaves wer e y ex a together in the min es , and wore o:rupu.ousl mined, for fear of their having concealed an3thing. Within the last few yearn they had received from 50 to 60,000 tons. He then came to ti:e production of coffee. They would con sent to receive large quantities of that article, and yet they would not receive one single ounce of sugar grown by the same slave. We were the greatest dealers in the world in the article of sugar, and sent out enormous quantifies of our merchandise in exchange fir it. There were generally in our warehouses from BJO,OOO to 1,000,000 cwta. of this sugar, and after refining it we exported it to our other colonies. After this—the cruelty of the slave trade-the English people called themselves the opponents of the slave trade. It was, however, well known that slave grown sugar was actually admissible into this country under certain circumstances, and he knew that it actually was admitted. He thought that he hail succeeded in showing: that our virtue and morality con sisted in refusing one particular article from one particular place, and admitting the slave grown article from other places. Was not pi otection at the bottom of all this, and were they not afraid that, as they themselves were producers of the article, they would have too strong a competition ? Every cwt. cf free labour sugar that they consumed was replaced by an equal quantity of the slave grown article. Was it not wrong to pro ceed on this small fraction of a principle, and call it their mora lity and humanity, while they indirectly encouraged it under these circumstances ? He asked their Lordships to give their support to the Bill. Lord STANLEY said that it was necessary that he should say to his Noble Friend opposite, who had just sat down, that tome of the observations he had made required no corrobora tion or contirrnat!on from him, but at the time he held it to he his duty to commence the observations he had to offer to their Lordships, by confirming to the fullest extent the statement the Noble Lord made in commenc ing his observations. —( Hear, hear.) However unusual had ten the course adopted in introducing the discussion, it was adopted with the consent, and in part for the convenience, of some Noble Lords on his side of the House. He concurred with his Noble Friend, that it was desirable to have the question settled, for the benefit of trade, and fur the benefit of the pecuniary affairs of the country ; but, with the exception of these two points, he did not agree with a single principle of his speech, or a single doctrine which he had held out. They were called on to come to a decision on a measure which had been passed through the Houseof Commons in a short space of time; and on little or no warning to adjudicate upon this important question. The present Government had in the year 1841 been defeated on a question relative to protection, and the sub sequent Parliament had confirmed the opinion of the old one, and still this same Parliament had turned round and opposed their former opinions —on what ground ?—why. that they might, as the Noble Lord had said, appear consistent, and not contradict the principle which on a late decision they had come to. Anything less called for than the present measure to com ply with the principles of free trade he never heard. They had heard that prices were to he lowered, that import duties were to he diminished The duties on the inferior articles of tea amounted to 200 per cent. ad valorem, and thus the superior description of tea was released at the expense of the inferior classes of tea, the articles which the poorer classes consumed. The duty which would be charged on sugar would be about 14s. on what cost 305., which amounted to 50 per cent. He considered that if the doctrine: of free trade were introduced and carried practically into effect they would involve the finances of the country in inexplicable confu siert. But then they were told that sugar was a monopoly. What, a monopoly, in which nineteen states competed with each other? Why, there, were only two countries in the world who ...ere excluded from the monopoly, and they, because they used a maehiney which gave them a superiority over other countries, and the use of which was considered by Christians as a disgrace and a crime. He übjecte,i to the period in which the Bill was brought forward. He objected to it on the principles of expe diency—on the principles of policy—on the principles of huma nity, and he would almost say on the principles of consistency. There never was a measure more uncalled for than the present. In Is4o, her Majesty's Government declared that the price of slave-grown sugar shoudi not be taken into consideration. At that time sugar was about 48s. 8d per cwt., exclusive of the duty. Well, the price has fallen to 325. 6d., and the supply has increased from 161,0 A) tons to 245,000; so that was his answer to the necessity of this measure—that was his answer to the sug:.r famine. His Noble Friend had gone further than he had ever heard or believed a man could go ; in the calculation respecting such a crop as sugar, he ventured to calculate for five years—what few would have attempted to have done for three. But he would ,take an opportunity befere he sat down of refuting the Noble Lord's calculations, and showing him the absurdity of attempting so enter into such a detail. They had now 46,000 tons of sugar exported from the Mauritius, from which Mr. Huskisnon said that if they ever received 10 090, he would eat it bodily; he therefore asked his is/chip Friend upon what principles he made his calculations of the cansumotion and supply of sugar. But he would come back to the former point, and be would ask what was it that had reduced the price of sugar ? It was not because they had the stimulus of competition, but it was because they had the sti mulus of protection —( Hear, hear. ) The West Indies, under the promise of protection, had increased from year to year—in 1841, from 44,000 tons; in 1842, 55.000 tons ; in 1843, 69,090 tons ; and in the present year 80,000 tons. The same was the cane with respect to the Mauritius. In 1841 they exported 20,000 tons; in 1826, 46,000 tons; and in the next year it was estimated at 60,000 tons. But that would not be th t whole of the effects of the proposed plan. It would add the value of 51. to every ton of sugar imported from Brazil and Cuba.—( Hear, hear.) They would, by the plan proposed, in crease the net profits of every slave engaged in the cultivation of sugar to the amount of either 101. or 15/. a }ear to his master for his services.—( Hear, hear.) And that was not all, nor nearly all ; it would not only cause an increase in the demand of 25,(00 tons—it would not only increase the value on all sugar imported to 5/ per ton, but it would increase the demand o this country, by reducing the price of the sugar, and they must take into calculation the amount of sugar which would consequently fail off in their own colonies in the West Indies.—( Hear, hear.) And did their Lordships, or did any man, believe, that after this mea-ure should come into opera tion the West Indian estates belonging to the people of this country could be permanently cultivated to the same extent and the same amount as they were cultivated and carried on at the present moment ? The effect of this measure would be the exportation of 10,000 or 20 000 additional slaves from the coast of Africa. And for what purpose would those 10,010 or 20,000 additional slaves be exported from the coast of Africa? For the very purpose of increasing the slave trade in the Brazils and Cuba. Let their Lordships look to the gr , at expense and loss of life to which this country had been put with a view of preventing the traffic in the people of Africa. He admitted, with his Noble Friend, that our present cruisers on the coast of A frica, great and vigorous as had been their exertions in the attempt to extinguish that system, had been subjected to great loss of life, but he believed at the same time, that all their exertions and all the money expended by this country in the suppression of slay is was but benevolence, and philanthropy misdirected.— ( Hear, hear.) Let her Majesty's Ministers speak out upon ' this question.—Cheers.) This country had already expended 21,000,000'. in purchasing the freedom of some slaves, and yet the horrible system of shivery continued, despite their expenditure and the gallant conduct of their cruisers. We had ttonnd foreign countries by treaties to j do with us in the ' suppression of the slave trade, and yet her Als,jesty's Govern ment were actually at that moment proposing a measure which would further the avaricous designs of tt e slave trader, and defeat and stifle all our previous efforts in the cause of emanci• pating the slave.— ( Hear. ) Such conduct would justly lay us open to the charge, not simply of extreme folly, but actual hypocrisy.—( Hear, hear,) If this measure were carried, the Government must then withdraw their cruisers from the coast of Africa. Who would believe, then, that this country that had expended such enormous sums, and sacrificed so much human blood for the extinction of the ,lave trade, would now propose a measure actually approving of and sanctioning that very system ? This country would, undoubtedly, become the laugh ing and the ridicule of every people and every nation on the face of the earth —( Hear, hear.) They would subject theme Ives to the contempt of every human being, as the grossest and most absurd hypocrites, who would act so incon sistently and unjustly fur the purpose of saving id. in the price of every pound of sugar, and a slight and temporary augmentation of the revenue.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend opposite had -aid, in the course of his speech, that he was ready to make any sacrifice for the purpose of patting an end to the slave tra le—( Lord Clarendon, " Hear, hear") —and the one sacrifice that he was called upon to make was one half-penny per pound in the price of sugar.— ( Hear, hear, and laughter.) But that it appeared was too great a sacrifice for the morality and philanthropy of the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.) Wh t did the very Com missioners of the Government themselves say on the subject of the traffic in slaves exported from Africa? Her Majesty's Commissioner wrote from Havannah, in the course of last year, that there had been a considerable reducCon in the exportation of slaves from Africa in consequence of the low price of sugar, whi .h was occasioned by its exclusion from the British risark , ts—( Hear, hear)—that it was net their cruisers on the coast of Africa that had produced this effect—( Hear, hear) — but the laws passed by the Legislature of this country, prohibit ing the introduction of slave-grown sugar into this country at the same rate as the produce of free labour.—( Hear, hear.) There was another point on which he should like to have an answer from her Majesty's Government before he sat down. and that was, whether they intended to remove the restrictions and differential duties upon foreign goods? His Noble Friend had said that they were net afraid that the West Indian colonists would not be able to compete with slave-holders if tree immigration was permitted. He should like to know what sort of immigration they meant, because, at this moment, there existed no obstacle to prevent any man from any quarter of the world entering the West Indies as a free labourer. He wished to know what they meant to do with the coast of Africa, because it was from that quarter that the slave holders contemplated supplying themselves with s l aves . H e wished to know what restrictions on immigration the Govern melt prepo-ed to remove. He presumed that they rid not its• t-nd to permit the exporta• ion of slaves from the coast of Africa. They would prohibit the slave trade, but they would encourage all the horrors of slavery is the interior of Africa. What did Government mean by conferring this boon of unrestricted immigration upon the West India colonists? His Noble Friend hail alluded to the circumstance of sugar being introduced from the slave countries into this, and exported by the mer chants of this country into other countries. He ( Lord Stan ley) contended that by such a mode they did not encourage the growth of a single pound of slave-grown sugar ; they were merely the carrers of the sugar, anal had nothing whatever to do with the coosumption of the article. The West India co lonies of Spain had been next alluded to by his Noble Friend, as deriving some benefit from our treaties with Spain. Those treaties did not apply to the merchandise of the colonies ; th e y applied only to the subjects of the co onies, 'and in that sense the court of Spain always interpreted them. As to the treaty with Brazil, there was no provision whatever in that treaty for the admission of sugar. He objected to the time at which this measure was; introduced, because he believed that it could not go forth to the country as a permanent or wed-considered measure. He felt satisfied that although the desire to obtain sugar at one halfpenny per pound might be prevalent during the present free-trade mania, still the country would not accept of such a boon by the passing of any measure which would render useless and nugatory, or worse than useless try thought that, slavery v w e n r u y ' d w h w e and nugatory, all the efforts which had been made for the last twelve years—all the sacrifices of blood and the treasures which hail been expended to put down this accursed traffic. He the value of slave-groWn produce in Cuba and in a _ first ti tim e is Ile would conclude by moving that the Bill be r ead d ld exhausted as t n%t u t e t increased e r su ad Lord ships' House, and at that period of the!es had now lasted for g heir Lordships were by the sittings, which e b y t h a e d p il e i o n e 2s o t f p t ee h r er c an o z 7 unexpected decision more than seven months, and aft-o- th e the subject a few which was conic to by the other House "cl a n s he was concerned, j th a t d a y three mont ho. But in the present state of their niashts since, he should not, so far, at . east . , Lordships the trouble give their record that he was one of those who had en entertainedtent to place upon strongest and the gravest objections to the Bill. the Lord should think it right to divide the If, however, any Noble . of dividing, he would be con " N " v ot e against the Bill. For his part he wou ld say I o to the first reading of this Bill. I DEN \IAN felt it to be an imperative duty which he Lori. feelings than those of abhor- House upon the question, ho should feel it his duty to owed to those with whom he had been long connected, and to th e peop e of England, to declare his direct hostility to the prin ciple of this Bill, believing it would encourage and stimulate tie trade in human beings. There was no .loubt that such would be the necessary result of this measure. To talk of slavery and slave trade with other renee would be utterly impossible. The Noble Lord who ~peoe, l the debate ha,t expressed his feeling' in that manner ; but he (Lord Denman) thought it strange that parties profess ing such principles should introduce a Bill calculated to pro mote slavery. The Government new Wight/CI to recline sugar sine halfpenny per pound, and to increase the revenue. God f,rhid that it should be done at the expense of the injured arid the helpless Africans who were not represented in their Lordslaps' House. The Noble Lord then proceeded to read some extracts from the reolutions of the British Anti-Slavery Society, and commented upon that porti,n of those resolutions referting to the failure of the means which had beets adopted on the coast of Africa for the suppression of the slave trade. He did not think there had been any failure ; great good had resulted from the cruisers on the coast. The Go vernment were now calling upon the country far power to make an innovation upon one of the greatest schemes that had ever been set on foot for the removal of the foulest s , igma from the face of the earth. The proposed measure would not only produce misery amongthe captured, but it would give an impulse to crime in those buccaneering characters who were engaged in this worst and foulest kind of piracy. Ile did not think the Government could be justified in commencing this great ex periment of competition between free and slave labour, for it was his opinion that, for some years at least, free labour would be entirely driven from the market. If they multiplied slave grown sugar, they multiplied slavery. He could not help thinking, before this Bill was introduced, that they should have given the scheme of emigration, as regarded India, the Mauritius, and other places, a fair trial. lie wished to know whether it was intended to apply the principles of free trade to what he believed would be a traffic in bloodshed and crime. There was no analogy between corn and sugar, for one was the produce of free and the other of slave lab.iur. He did not hesitate to express his surprise at the time and manner in which this measure was introduced. The Marquis of LANSD )WNE said, that in the first place it was said that this measure at the present period was intro.. duced, not for discussion, but decision--( Hear, hear I—but he would say that her Majesty's Government would not be doing their duty if they allowed that session to pass without securing her Majesty's subjects an increased allowance of sugar from this source.—( Hear, hear.) They were justified, by the frequent discussions that had taken place on the subject, and by the speeches that were delivered, containing arguments not brought forward for the first time now, but such as hail been urged again and again. The preceding measures e ere inade quate for their object, for he contended that, notwithstanding the unparalleled expenditure that, hid taken pl ice, there e as left no benefit tor any individual. In fact, there only remained a fanciful distinction, leaving the consumer of this country liable to the payment of a larger sum than by the ordinary rate of trade he should be cailrd upon to pay for the consumption of sugar. But the Noble Lord who spoke second in deb to had said, " You should put this on the prin ciple of free trade, which it is not, because it will leave the consumer liable to pay a duty of 145." But did the advocates of free trade assert that this country ought to be left without any revenue? All that was sought was to withdraw the stimu lus to monopoly. They supplied Rio Janeiro with a great por tion of the sugar they consumed. His Noble Friend ought to have remembered, when lie talked of bloodshed and crime, that English ships supplied the trade to Brazil. In the course of the last year there were 23,889,000 tons brought from Rio Janeiro alone. Sugar was brought from Rio Janeiro to Russia as well as to Austria. He did contend that they (the Government) in introducing the present measure woule diminish slave-grown and increase free-grown sugar. There was, as the Noble Lord opposite, from his colonial knowledge, was aware, a disposition in Cuba against slave-grown sugar, and in Brazil in favour of free trade in sugar. His Noble Friend had said that there had been a great deficiency in the West Inches in the production of sugar. All that was wanted in that country was the introduction of effieient machinery. Now, he could und. , rstand from unquestionable authority thatthere was a company forming since the introduc tion of this measure fur the purpose of supplying the West In dies with machinery. Now this was done by men of good sense, who were embarking their capital from a conviction that they would be able to , ealise a large profit on that capital. He did hope thot they would be enabled, with the concturence of other countries, to put a final stop to the accursed system of the slave trade. There was such a disposition on the part of the Bra zils to do so, and give a fair chance to free labour - that labour which was becoming more fruitful year by year. He had heard that a number of white persons had emigrated from one of the West India Islands to the Madeiras, and there was clearly a manifest improvement in the agriculture of the island ; and he considered that if greater facilities were given to emigration there would not be such a demand for slave la bour, and consequently the present measure would not propa gate the slave trade. He considered that the Noble Lord would treat the House of Gammons in a more respectful man ner if he varied his motion, and moved tha' the second reading be taken this day six months. Lord ASHBURTON said he came down to the House, quite prepared to give his vote fier the rejection of the measure, if it were the intention of his Friends to divide the House upon it. The great argument by which the measure was advocated was that of free trade, which had dropped from the clouds upon them, and which had shown itself for the first time in Abe present year—( Hear, hear)—and he feared they would find the fallacy of that measure when it would be too late to re medy it. It hail been said by his Noble Friend that the present measure altered the whole colonial system. He agreed in in that statement, fir he considered it involve thi principle of the use of their having colonies at all. What was the ob ject of colonies? They might have points of refuge for naval power, such points as Malta and Gibraltar ; but the real use of the colonies was to have an exclusive privilege of trailing with them ; and the moment that they departed from that system colonies ceased to be of any advantage— ( Hear hear.) If the different:al duties were aholist ed in Canada, the gentlemen from Manchester would find that the market for cottons, of which they believed themselves to possess a monoply, would be taken from them. If these principles prevailed, the whole system would be altered, and they would weaknn every de fence of the country. He warned their Lordships, that those who were pressing on these measures upon the country and Parliament, were running the risk of seriously undermining the prosperity of the country —( Hear hear.) They were told that these reformers, as they were called, would give a new impetus to the English farmer and the West India pl-nter— that was, they expected to give an impetus by taking away the reward which should accompany his increased exertion. The question was, whether they would pass a Bill which would open new sources of supply for sugar from two countries, Cuba and Brazil, where slavery and the slave trade existed. That was the point at issue, and that was the question that their Lordships had to decide. He could not conceive that this country would wish to see the continuance of the horrible system of slavery for the purpose of saving a few vile pence in the price of sugir. He believed that the feelings and d spesi tions of this country had been totally misunderstood, ant that if they could be made to comprehend the principle of the measure now proposed, they would treat it as they treated the proposal niade in the year 1t441, when the same proposition about cheap sugar. with other delusions of a similar character, were offered to, and repudiated by them. He should, thererore, withhold his support from this me Isere. He felt bound to protest against the system which this measure would establish. He also protested against the conduct of those Noble Lords, who intended to vote in favour of this mea sure, merely because they did not wish to disturb the present Government by opposing the measure.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord MONTEAGLE said, in conjunction with the Noble Lord, he reeretted that the discussion on this measure should have taken place at so late a period of the session. It hail been •aid, why not postpone this measure till the next session, but he conceived that it would have been a great dereliction of duty had they delayed for one hour the settlement of this great qaestion,—( Hear, hear.) After the settlement of the other great question of tree trade, they were hound, with out the sliehtest delicacy, to propose this measure, which was but a part of the question of free trade. The parties engaged in the cultivation of sugar had already suffered greatly from the delay which had taken place in the settlement of this question. It had been said that the Legis -I,,ture had pledeed itself not to disturb the interests of those concerned in the growth of sugar, but what had they been d iing during the whole of , the last twenty years? They hail been continually passim: changes, which were but the heralds of future changes —( Hear, hear.) Then he contended that the Government were not only justified in, but actually bound not.to allow this session to terminate without laying before the Legislature such a proposition as this.---( Hear, hear.) Noble Lords who were opposed to this measure did nevertheless sup pert a measure in 1825 which was but the herald of this. Even the Noble Lord himself who had just sat down had frequently stood up in his place in Par liament in support of a reduction in the price of sugar. He asked whether any one really believed that the grounds of Noble Lords' opposition to this measure was the present state political parties in this country ?—( Hear, hear. ) The Noble Lord who hal just down had raised one of the largest systems which could be raised, and which could not be discussed in a mere parenthesis. That question referred to our colonies. The Noble Lord had said that if we adopted this system we were about to depart from our present colonial system ; but that system involved mutual robbery—and were their Lordships de:drous of continuing such a system ?—( Hear, hear.) He contented that every colony in our possession ought to feel grateful to the Government for this measure.—(Hear. hear. ) His Noble Friend had endeavoured to lay down a principle that it was not right to commence a wrong, although it might be right to continue a wrong. He (Lord Monteagle) did not agree with his Noble Friend in that principle. He did not think, that in a case of right and wrong, such a principle was tenable. It had been sneered at that all these alterations were to be made for the sake of a reduction of orse halfpenny per pound in the price of sugar ; but a sacrifice of 800,0001. per annum had been merle in the article of cotton for the sake of five-eighths of a halfpenny on a former occasion. The extra• vagance of the popes in the middle ages, in their divi sion of the earth into eastern an'l western portions, was not to be compared with the egregious folly of that nation which attempted to define, by geographical limits, the morality of the consumption of slave grown sugar. There was only one other part upon which he wished to call the attention of their L.rd ships, and that was the financial state of this country. That might appear consola - ory to the sup, rficial thinker on the sub ject, but to those who took a deeper view of the subject, it presented a most alarming appearance ; for at present there was a most, serious deficiency, notwiths'anding the Income Tax; and it was therefore imperative that measures of this nature should be passed to avoid the serious consequences that might ensue from this state of things. He thought the present the best mode of meeting that state of things. Lord BROUGHAM said that a fortnight since he had called the attention, of the House to this subject, and he had waited through all this debate to hear the answers to those statements which he had then brought forward, but he had waited in va n. The fact of his being unanswered, might seem to relieve him from the necessity of making a second statement, or troub'inti their Lordships again upon this subject. His Noble Friend d haul gone through all the points of his Noble Friend,s (L motto, Stanley's) speech, evidently actuated by the " Please not to touch." To take the debate on course was reading was the usual course, but the li!orradseißrougham ) in erder the second adopted for public convenience. But he The Noble troduced the question by anticipation. re a ( y of the argu- Lord opposite had not %r a iz ) d hac t introduced. He rnents he (Lord Brougham did adhere to his former opinions that this measure_shoulrlhave been brought in at a prop er period, when it might be properly discussed. It was contended that a new Government m us t clos e thing. He admitted that it was necessary for a new Government to have something to go to the country with, and to enjoy the residue of their days. Now, he could understand why the Bill should be introduced f or thi s purpose, but for arty other purpose he could not see why it was brought in a n d gone through so speedily in th e ot h er House love of justice they rob the m o f t h eir prop er;y Through their and ;he Noble Lord who opened the debate said to the unfortunate pl an t ers , You are a set of incapables," sod therefore th ey must intro duce machinery amongst them. There were few arguments, for it resulted from the position of parties. Sir R. Peel had passed the Corn Bile certainly ; but it was qu i te on diff erent grounds, and on the immutable principles of humanity. He was prepared for changes, but he was not prepared to deal with them. He had been for a long time in conflict with the planters of the West Indies, and th ere f ore h e h a d li tt l e sym pathy with them. He, however, loved justice, and therefore he could not but express his surprise when it was stated that this nieasuse was introduced for their benefit. Now, he haul received a letter from a valued friend, from which it appeared that lie'had used machinery. Now there had been a great deal of stress laid upon the fact of a company for the manu fscture of mach nery in the - mentre of Jamaica, which was to work wonders ; for such a change as had taken place, in tha opinion of the gentleman, was cited as an authority on this subject. That gentleman no longer thought this measure op posed to religion, to the Bible, and to the existence, of colonies. I here was another fact which belonged to this subject, one which arose out of it—which was, that the West India mer chants have refused to send out their supplies to the planters because they believed this measure would so injure the planters, that they could not depend upon them for their supplies. Sir I John Rao said that the Wevt 7tirliane had a perfect tight protection, and that protection should be affosJed them. Them Lord Brougham contended, that the whole arguments fa favour of the measure begun, continued, and ended in this, that sugar will he reduced in price, and brought within the caprwity of purchase to the people of this country—the price would be lowered, the quantity would be augmented. Now might a mar, of common sense ask the Noble Lord at the Board of Trade how opening the ports for sugar of a ll kinds could increase the supply by 30,000 tons or hogsheads? Anq how was this increase to be provided for, that was the q uestion. There was but one conceivable way, which was by !teens of slavery. The execrable enormity, the greatest practical evil which the world had ever experienced, must be admi tted as as engine for the cultivation of sugar, because the G overnm ! n wished to have sugar at a halfpenny a pound cheaper. g r bYt it was said, did they take cotton, and coffee, and otherarticles: which were slave grown? Why sugar could not be compared with cotton and coffee; it to be sure was West India cultietat'"+ but that was all. Did gentlemen know that these negrees were worked its a gang in a line, with the lash dr ivin g the feeble to keep up with the strong ? The question a t presen to t was with regard to sugar, and it was no ans wer e taunt him with cotton and coffee. Let them el no with the question of cotton and coffee to him, a nd , would deal with them ; but because on e evil existed, "va s e' lle reason that another enormous one s h uld be perpetrated. duties on cotton and coffee still c x:sted, acd that was ensile, for him.—( Hear, hear )—and the duty made a material dqle.rh ence. He would not point out those dreadful scenes vcn i ic eto occurred, and made it p a inful to thi n k th a t they heleng e " the same class of men as those miscreants who were enaploylof upon the slave trade. There was one instance in which a vel e e 110 tons carried 120 slaves, more than one half of whom P ert° is in the voyage. It was ludicrous to compare the slave syst eu de . carried on on the African coast with th e A mer ican slave tr%e What he was going to state with regard t o the African: J o t trade was not merely his opinion, non nuns hie sem(); It i y, the opinion of our own negotiator, hi s Ri g ht Hon. Frie nd t he Lushington, who had prayed him not to delay urging t i v g necessity of doing away with the arrangements for P ut down the slave trade on the coast of Af r i ca . Dr. Lush in s g t e l is charged these who were favourable t o the principles "% ic e measure. with being the accomplices of alt the tortures l•"ti„, were inflicted on the poor negroes employed in the cul tica tba s of sugar ; and it was the opinion o f th a t hi g h authority , o b e those individuals were as much guilty of felony as those fitted out the vessels, &c., for the carrying on the ie f le traffic in human beings. He had now discharged a du'Y he was most anxious to perform. He had been long ern e s • in the cause of freedom to the poor negro. It was as a ( 1 -- a tion of slavery, and not of slave trade, that he looked ePteee this measure. He was told that slave labour could never let into competition with free labour. He admitted that, bee r that would not be the case unless two descriptions of -s pic e were in the same position ; one must not have privileges the other did not possess.—( Hear, hear.) There was an !,b to the argument about slave labour being able to compet e . e t i l free unle. s they were put upon a parallel. He little th° : ° ,,e ey that after all that had been done in the cause of hunisa" r ee the Legislature of this country, he should have lived to sec t '. , day when he should ohliged to rise in his place in P ar for meet for the purpo:e of denouncing a liberal G ov ernme n ' t ei encouraging the horrible traffic in human souls. In the sera, of Lord Chief Justice of England. the conduct of the Ge ce ee s ment was most extraordinary and unjust. This Bill w as doubtedly a measure which would have the effect of enc," ur ,se ing the slave t ra d e , an d as suc h h e s h ou ld certainly . "Not con•ent" to it. Earl GREY then rose and said that the Noble and Leat at t Lord had complained th a t th e s p eec h o f hi s N o bl e Friend( that Stanley) hail not been answ ere d, b ut w h en t h e res ults of go ld evening's proceedings would go forth to the public, they be able to say whether or not that speech had been anOted —( Hear, hear.) But if it had not b e e n answer ed, he t e - es le grey) would ereoutee to make an attempt to answ er the sPessiel He would apeeal to their Lordships whether the Nettl e te of Learned Lord who had just sat down had, during the "‘" ° o re the time in which he had occupied their Lordships' atteettioa adduced one single argument against the measure. with of certainly, after his usual custom, entertained them wite„ - ,, 1 6t jokes. This measure he (Earl Grey) contended would r h i e ps• the whole of the British population, and ought thelr Ler ° , se , without serious arguments being brought forward agair ts e .' of jest the Bill, and thus deprive the people of this countt t i e d. that proper supply of cheap sugar to which they were en e tt eo pti Had any Noble Lord ven•ured to submit that we were t'y C e to exclude the use of slave-grown articles as much done should stolen goods ? Not one had done th a t. ineeeetaties of the Noble Lords opposite had admitted that such c°, l ' es e • would be an act of nothing less than Q u ix o tic benev eLe go They already had slave-grown coffee, &c. A few Yeneiell the duty on the article of coffee (in the cultivation et ore , slaves were employed) was materially reduced. Co t est too, was introduced under a minced duty at the very ti,e le b i o et. the Noble and L , arned Lord himself was in the L' a eias as But the Noble and Learned Lord ( Lord Brougham) h - s t he , slippery as an eel ; there was no catching him ;he said e re , knew nothing about this introduction of copper, a nd vet co gs gularly sat in that House every n-ght, and must have bee n Tee nisant of the whole of the proceedings.— ( Hear, bear.) e s ess effect of their reduction on the slave-grown article of ce e e tiet ioe an increase of 34,300,0001b5. per annum. That reu edy st had been sanctioned by the Noble and Learned Lord, ' a l s ord 'a that reduction had, according to the Noble and Learned but o f argument, tended to the increase of the save trade , ;1' 1 ,4 all these reductions on slave-grown articles, he professed a,Veie, ignorance—he pretended to know nothing about thern• — k_ f t ee, heal., and laughter. ) He had in his hand a return grind 0 p orte refined sugar, and he found that in 1845 they had e f it vi ss e 273,0 cw. of refined suga and that 50,0 cwt. sw s:tee sent to oo t the British colonies r, Their Lordshi 0 pso s houla r bet that 99 of that in every 100 was slave-grown regparaimea was the rankest delusion that ever was attempted off upon the country ; in fact those who bad I ? e e e r y g ulled etD i e d that had become ashamed of it. He fully and be t ee d tra 1 the measure would encourage the assing this 1, 3 1 by Pe- ro d would endeavour to show them fe but an measure they would go far 1 to b their conduct to it. He conceived, that if they Penc-aim d te e o by it not We would be doing a vast injury to the ` was . not ____ e of that free labour was not able to compete with la y v . el w ale as our , the anti-slavery party. He, for and entzr his part, still I ) a ble language of Mr. Wilbe,force—s....ch was not the language that free labour, properly encouraged, would be that to compete with s l ave l a b our. It was his opinion a India would y e t b an i s h s l aver y from the market; Ar ia even with regard t o the West Indies, he "r not h - dd the gloomy and desponding views w hit some gentlemen took upon the question. On the contr as ts his expectations were cheered by the knowledge of the f a e c e . which he hail stated. The \Vest Indians would now I ' l lla what they were to encounter, and they were not so desp o "_, , as the Noble Lord ; on the contrary, they were luckily thrt-to selves up for their tasks, nor did they fear it. Thee° r ,l,:ed would most admirably • epay their Lordships' perusal. Rse that it was only by men, whose intelligence bad, !Rey'. developed, who had received the truths of Chri s tian o f that they could expect to receive the due 2 ° l( l ' bad labour.—( Hear, hear.) The Council of Jamaica fleece adopted that principle, and were carrying it out h i ra torf tire. The company who was about establishing a m,a n e u e said for machinery in Jamaica was sneered at. It had tlii tt eee , that it had existed long before this measure was int r de e the hut there was nothing in the horizon which nern s lots coming event. This measure would introduce a et, y- ,enth labour ; for it would give rise to a demand for severs' ti n t' o ill who were not now in existence, and who could no t exist under a state of slavery.—( Hear, hear.) HE: bthis th a t th ere was a great num b er of planters rea d y t o take, tt gas subject, anti proceed ueon it with vigour. The inte t,v tn e jig to put a ll p art i es on an equa l footing. The reaso n to / t he) not sweep away at once these differential ditties was, they t t he . apprehended that some financial diffi c ulty wou ld arise: but Noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's Governmen t Jed' gladly avail himself of any plan by which thi s could be a/J T ll° Laid BROUGHAM said he had a right to eXPlait,o one Noble Lord hail stated that his opinion on that subject " re fort that no man woman, or child, in the country, would i'si,eerl But it would surprise the House to le arn that the Anti- Lord Society had, selected him to present a petition to the i ttiel ships, and asked him to sign his name to one of their % to le i f The ci arge that had been made ag a i ns t him was ° of for he had given his assistance to his Noble Friend the w s pre - Ripon on this question, and when the Noble Lerdeeleloet; vented, by an accident, from attending in his place jai' t eolig' i ' o the whole weight of the business fell upon him. H e ns that the Parliamentary reform being before the r j,eir B ; 1831 was sufficient to occupy the attention of their Li' if this Lord ASHBURTON said he wished to kn ow measure applied to shipping. h c O1 1: 1 ; Earl GREY said, that was a question embracing 9 . °C ,' prehensive topics that with th e i r L or d s hip s ' pere lls t - To „,"; would decline answering the question. With resP ec ee sr " t e gagements, the reason of the term being fixed at a d e e e th e . s l that it should be of that duration which would notin tt e olee t ni to break it. What they proposed was, to give t i . h r e Og en :: - S Governments an opportunity of coming to an a t e - e a e, satisfactory to the parties employed. That, 110 0 % t eer matter to be settled by the colonial authorities , Z e t - ern! t n oo to be attempted to be regulated by her Majesty's ‘l, - „ T r otr-' Lord ASHBURTON said, that taking Deese at' r e bb e o f from the colonies was a subject so important to tbe t l e ' n tion large that they should be acquai n t e d w ith the 10 Op Government. - of coats Earl GREY stated the Government wou ld ' :„, ao propose to remove the differential duties. , _ ciss ese'n o ;i he Lord STANLEY said that under the Britisn. o l'_, e , a e bit , uniform rate of duty wai fixed for all the col , t n b i e c a, • " thought it right, under all the circumstances °I n ieg u" provisions of that Bill should be adhered to. ~,, col° , had Earl GREY said that, so far as allowing t o ' ver onlen' restricted competition was concerned, the 0 iei w°re made up their mind on the subject. ht , colon • o vro Lord STANLEY wished to know whether t , r , their r ite 1r..., L. , . -.... • to have the power of levying duties, accorow;__ ufli fort' thi t different and conflicting interests, or 7 i h on e t ie h : r ? n of duty should he enforced upon the t c et Earl GREY—No Bill w as no y o subject. ht it too had that a 13111 on ' 2, ,b Of P upon Lord STANLEY t h "g brought forward after the 1 to know whether the crui'e" al be continued. Certainly. p A o uL r a t , a ,ur n s, t lt .o a Doi s u Ef. w b sA j e wr_tr c ioi t Acr s ad n .ts Ts : furodiem, ht be. Lord EC °/1 OrdSTANLEY and Earl Cl' the coast a F..x..... After a . t h e su b - iect of differential duties, It was then arranged that the amendmen t ~ e c " e a Staßl e l The Bill was read a first time. ot . o y, n o.- ~ i c l og, should be put upon the motion for th e with the instead instead of upon the first reading, in acco or u ' lle of the House, and out of courtesy to the House th tkonREN DON ' TheEarrif ti e m L e at t 131 11 be Lord STANLEY „ to yed t ti,.., kip , t the read a second then 'Thursday as nex an t. avvri dre n r x t ( 00 , t hat Bill be read that d ' a b moved, h H was a ,. ree montus. e oU-e• an d their objection should app y ea t r on the records of the 1 -1 0 ,, , Several other Hilli were then forwarded .a stage Lordships adjourned at Half past One 0'0 1 "• --- -- ------- --------- On the ith inst., at Saßnfißgraltle3,.the lady of F . D. Ilsjejb —l., the a_dau.ghter Go O id a in;_ t r h i e 3i B a t i h , 'HI Inst. ;he wife of T. B. Kemp, Es ( l . ' °fa os ni pr. ladY ° oirl.l.lautglyrd.deltou-square, the MARRIED. iniCIO On ice, t 1 11 , ! q 6 ., tll inst., at Wallasey lurch, Ches hire ' Pols° , Tor second ri :laughter of ( G )f 2 (.: l o d l i o g i g :e ' l Nll.ll7."Sitrollid'ilevta°rrdia'airsllaLrYaddhCivueiltl, Botts, the 6th inst., at the Collegiate Church :s, George, sou of James H A ek Hill, Esq. , c' t. N t l:6 field-street, Notts, to Georgina aYl‘'i'at. ri, daof ughter of _. Venerable George Wilkins, D. D., Archdlaeaco, of Sot _3_,.., On the 20th of June, at 1)T1----agclia.cas, South Adams. E, q . On the 3d inst Caroline, 0, 9 . a the 6th init . ., eldest dau , ht thep, Leamington, t On the t, cr of late J. Pinherton, Ea+, of Tot c2.aLla Paten, 4th inst. Anna Maria,. N% ire of John 1 Y il sv n, Esq., m.p , !hr. Alfred America, DrYas Oa they llbv Oa the 6th , 4 . J. at Brighton, Thomas Worthington, s4l't NN ood, aged 27 ~ at INewington-place, Emlin, the vile of lathe 50. lig London: Printed and Published by 1111CrEDO YOUN —ewe Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, N 0.112, Strand. AssUir• of the Savoy, the County of Atiddleses , Tu 11 1846. 0