The Sun. — London, England, 1812-12-01 00:00:00

practical vt'isilinn from the conduct of those, whom we nnanimously, admire. For this system of forbearific , %Vat, of mitigated . and half-afraid hOstility, we are told there, two-fold . rea son, IVe are told that we have-friends in :Amer rica : whom We ,Shoidd endeavour- • to conciliate - by mildness, and that, we should be careful . to, put oinseives, and to show : ourselves completely the right. No man can subscribe mug readily: than I do to the latterpropo4itifan. S 6 much sr, in, deed, that I confess,l should contemplate. the. most splendid . N.'i;,:tor that e.ver decerated the his torte page with little i.diniration, if it were gamed in a, catisi manifestly unjust. It al s o inayb;, Wise • to giVe that preponderance to the a- party. n Arne ric-1 will not call 'it English, for that `would be -unjust—,-good Americans, who love ?their. country, and, who maintain the opinion that. an alliance with England is preferable to an alliance - with France. Besides, Sir, are we Sure that by . ,this mitigated hostility we are really 'playing the "game of the ,party:friendly to 'Us ? I doubt it. 111 iniagine,a country (lividedintopar , • ties, one of which predicts the evils.that must fol .. low hoStility With England. :I caainot conceive a - mode better calculated to, diminish the influence of . that party than by making the hostility, when it .does come, harmless ; thus repdering the prophets • contemptible, and enabling those opposed to, 'them in politics to .appeal to expel ience, from. foreboding S.. But is this an ideal picture ? I found the other day the report of a speech •_ made by one of the party in America, .whom eve are told we ought to conciliate• .by forbearance. This, 'gentleman, (Gen., German) endeavoured to tleterhis countrymen froth war, by..in anticipation ,oftheevil's which. Great Britain could inflict upon .Ainerica the montent.that war was declared. In An address to, the Senate he observed, "that the . • consequence of the maritime superiority of goat, Brjtain watild be the loss. of New Orleans, from - W ‘ iiich the:glish:,66lll.4 „not. be clislo&pl OZ., • ••• E.n . 'w)thout a great sacritice of blood ancftreasure; that they alight then pass northwArd4mg, the American c . ,Wl$ t t (11aile,S ti.) aitd . 1 . 0-1101 L i f ; and he asked .V. ,. '".if:they thought it: ,possible, tb defend those of that they Would . 4°1;1) c in the possession of the English in sik (figs.?" Ile assured the Se thatif they calculated on the forbearance of'theEnglish, they . wonld be deceived ;'.' and • went on` to ridicule. the idea, that c .after the step . • 'of detlaring war had been taken, any thing, would 'postpone the vengeance Of -Great Britain. "The step, has, been. taken,„ and the prophet • .can be na longer respected. He is lost to us ' to any useful purpose.' • Every one knows, that, `the inconveniences Which it is in the power of an` enemy on the breaking , out' of a • • war frequently retard that event. • conveniences have passed - by, and A.Merica has leos reason to dish for the discontinuance-of hos ' tilities. If, however, any. Man can_ slew • that•six monthS spent in in , and that to negociate with an enemy's, fleet instead of. capturing it, are the • modes of :making. a.'Cause • lust,' / • submit AO such proof. Biit, Sir, if it he so - eery cle6irable to pit us in the right. on thisqucsriuon, quesri , on, surely there, was a shorter Way.. The de clarlition- Of War oti the part bf Anierica was rc teivcd - aboiittile end of July. It imputed t o besides th'eOrdersincouncil (which have been suf fiCietitfy Jlisell6se . d . liqr:`! to render any finth s er servatio.is upon unnecessary),, Other Silt:lSt:3p gm-m(l6 oft:pupa-el; Which document inthe face of the world and of posterity, remains unanswered ! • L it :not the custom of European diplomacy, • when a - clechiration of war imputes to one nation provocations to hostility, that the declaration of • war on the part of the nation so accused, is ec .Companied by aP;iblie answer toathe deClaration.? If, then, it AV aSi so desirable tolie:right, Paftia meni not being sitting, •-,wliN:ik,,aviire not means resorted to by 'th'e , , - ktlectitive GoVern mut to rebut the attack ? inWhya t is there not on the - Table of this Housti; . :2ll(l. why was there not dispersed - through . Europe. an ample 'and - satisfactory refutation =of the' 1 charges Treferred 'by the American Government ? ..This Was 'rendered more desirable by the sup= posed- -probability of an itimiediate resto.ration of peace. For ' had peace been concluded, then it• would have been 'too late the accusation would have. been recorded, and .no public answeika it would have been in existence. One of the iniptita-. tion earitained in the declaration ) was, that we deinalicied' of . Ainerica that , she should force hits produce and manufactures .upon France. Such a - demand would have been most unjust. Ihave •no donbt that it •Vvaa never made. But it was hifilY important,''' ninethat, o - :'a a 'month titer the iirfciatulgation of iin • accusation ,it Should be refuted •by our‘.. Governmept.-- .• Another imiatted cause of war e ' in which . I . - 'ersonally impliCated, Was .'that in 180,9, It=hen -we were in a anticable Pe, :•gociaton with - . America; a misSion Was sent to dis . • member the anion,, and to stir up I know not avhat distinbances. Sir, aught to •IliiVe been directly contradicted ,by 'our Govcrnment its the face of Ktirope.' When I said that:l aviiS pet stmally- implicated in ,this .it •p traps . action, 1 meant that at that periozr I 4acl llionour to hold the: situation 'of the Seere'tarl 0f State,' in whose" 'department such a transae -•-action, if it toOk.place at all, must have originated 'and 'I solemnly declare, to the' whole worm, 'tliatlf.such a mission was dispatched, .1 ,had' no 'earthly knoWledge of it i I was no party. to It, I neiret heard of it>. until I' saw it iinputed to the • , 13ritisli Government in the .American declaration. :The indignation which.r feel ,on my own dccount - at this 'accusation, like ‘vise feel,tor, my Sove-- reign; and I contend, - :.that,, it is an accusation which•ought to havibetainStantly and distinet-- ly repelled-,—Sir, there one 'point mote., not comprehended' in the Speech and Addresa, 'but ouiitted in them, to which I wish to advert.— I ain not going to blame the 'oinissibn; bk. I think I - should be. liable to -Islaineif iiassed by, tke subject -in silence. The Polat - 'to Which. 211-tlthi is what is called Catholic .Ethaticipation. 1 impute no bhinie for the omission of . any Ls:cation of this topic itthe speech, becausel do not cc-iiceive . that The operation of the'inotion which' .T.ad - the hohout, to Make last year, imposed On the_ Ly.ecttiire . GoVtinunent the duty of originating any • consideration of it. Certainly the motion whith T lead in-contemplation originally to make, would have unposed on thelLxecutiveGovernment. such a duty ;,but _as great chje.ctioa l s were madeby Gen tfemen whose support t wish to secure, to tranS lerring the consideration of this important subject from Parliament to the Executive Government; '1 • changed my intention, and contented Thyself with. moving - 1 1 •e_ solutions of the. steps which Parliament would take, - which Resolutions were laid atthe foot of the Throne. These resolutions. -lid-not _impose on the .Ii xecutive Government• the duty of originating any'cOntideration of the que&tion .3 but it did impose on them the duty of making their minds to meet the discussion to which Parliament was pledged. When; therefore, the.subject-shall' disciissed elsewhere, I sballhe satisfied if I .find that Government have deliberated on the subject, and have Made up their minds to meet it in - a manly_ manner. The opportunity of ascertaining this will probably occur at no very Aistant period:. Those who remember the occurrences of the last Session will recolleetthat, at the suggestion of the Right, Honourable 'Gentleman opposite; .seeonded by, the recommendation of . the Honourable .gentle man near hith, I most willingly sUrrendered i the Catliblie cause to that - Venerable .and patriarchal individual whObag'so frequently advOcated it with unrivalled clOqueuce aria .entbusiasal. Into, his ban s;I committed it; without -any pledge on - my . owu part but that of genefat support, yetaining a perfect discretion with respect to the pzirticular course that eiromnstanceg . might induce ine to_ pursue. S%r, 'With the qualifications Which ; J have stated,- I cordially concur in the Address as it goes to , pledge with heart and soil 411 "ti ineanS-.afidresOurces of the - country at, our tlis 7 .. pOsal tO the prosecution of the contest in which' we are engaged, niv conscience I believe ,that there are,. no other niciinS of tertniGating it with safety arid„honour. I am,persitatiedin Ithe spirit of the" observations made by th s e, able. seconder of the AddresSi that the -greater the vigour_ With Which we ,Carry on ,the war,. the nearei:. sinf - J1 IN'e ► he: to the attainment of pettee..--Itis not. hesi- . tation and indetison that- we can hope to obtain that ohject, but by manly and inth!„fatigable per-, severance in the Most Strenuous and unceasing exertion." ' After a considerable panse— The .fT. , o:l',Ell• again put the question, and no Meniber on the Opposition sliewing a disposition to rise, . • Lord iCASTLEREAO-11 said, that as the only tas ,apparently to be imposed on Ministers this night was' rather to give explanation onplints which might call for further investigation_hereafter, than to meet any opposition on any of the political.tea tures of the Government, or of the subjects con tainedin the Prince Regent's. Speech, he.should not find find it necessary. to enter very minutely-into the consideration ofthe valions matters Whieli had been touched upon - . Considering what liad fallen fi Qln the Right Hon. Gentleman who .spoke last to • be callingfor explanation, - rather than As differing opinion from those who had preceded him, he (Lorti C.) had waited in expectation, that if any ,Hon. Gentleman o n the oppOsite side had, any fur- titer informrtion to require, thatthey, would state what such information was, and thus-enable him 'at the same time to reply to them, and endeavoiir to satisfy the Right nom Gentleman. It was no small gratification to the country, and to: the Prince _Regent's Ministers, at this momentous and difficult crisis of the world, to find,.on the opening of: a new Parliament, that the only : claim upon them was for an explanatiOn'of the general princi ples of poliey by which their future actions were to be regulated; and that there appeared no ground for 'censure, no cause for compiaint„and no source for apprehenSion or -discouragement. It in- . deed evident that the prospects of the-country were improved for if this had not been broadly fonnd 7 ed at fact, he would this night have made.,upou him demands of a Very different nature from those which had been made. The Right Hon. Gentle man had With perfect. propriety divided, the eouo - of the'Subjeet before. ihe Honse into tivo• parts, connected with the external and internal si tuation of the country, and had applied himself ge nerally to the former. , ' : This in itself is is another sottl'Cr. cif gratification to' him, and most,. he wag: sure; .be equally satisfactory to.thcH.puiei when they considered the state in whichthey were about the period of the end •of the lakSesSion of Parlia.; meat. -When'they reflected on the condition of some of theitounties at that time, they . Would inclined.to think that his Majesty's 'Ministers had a very difficult task to perform,and would agree in what -had-been so ably stated by the Noble Mover .and Hon. Seconder of the Address - ,.. that there was great cause for congratulation in the termination of noSe diffieulties, by the means which `Parliament provided, - Meao devised in the spirit of conciliation, althonah Wcuhtted t6' ri•press . the ,system.Of 'subordination 'that then' unhappily existed: In the aliminiStration of those laws with which-they Were armed, - it was_pleasing to him and his ,col leagues to observe,: that there was no insinuation Of an abuse 'of power ; and it -was squally gratify • ing-t6 grim tO:loVe*.tostke, that the.people them selvesby their own good sense and alltgiance had 'retraced their mistaken steps; and that their rege neration is id grown more out of their disposition than out . of 'the tfficacy Or - enforcement of the le g,islatiVe provisions W • `which had been. 'resorted to. In looking to the larger blanch of the ,question_to 'which the Right Hon. Gentleman 'had directed his rittention---Llarger as - it idseeted• the security and 'destinies of the world-43a must treSpasS at some what ;greater length upon the patience of the House; in - order, not to discuss fully, the several important pronositiods started, but to record-what Might 'be the grounds on whiCh. Ministers would Meet dick, various inquiries, and. if necessary, defend thems-elyes 'from attack, should they . be Made matter of accusation. His-task in this would have been.much narrower, if the: Right Honour.: able Gentleinan had not built much of the reason for his reserve' in 'cordially agreeing with the Ad dress that had just been moved, o'n assumptions entirely inapplicable to Ministers, and withont . foinidation in point of fact. This tlie - .ltight.lion. Gentleman hid done in the absenee of that,infor .niation•which it was impassible for any person 110 in - the Government to possess, but Which he would • . r lANDON: 1V001),:of NO. 92, Riissz:ll-couxt; 13rydgei-greet, .Corentgarki At ti,w. SUN 9k1,10E, NO. 112,,5ticau4i Nvlicre iitivvrasenitin.s, grat..l4 10 in so far . as AIMS consistent with his public duty, ,and what he owed to,his own. and to other eon's tries, endeavour. to 'prodtitte. frr looking to our external relations, the Right Hort. Gent. had - first brought before them-the most impottant state of. affairs in the North of Europe ; he had, secondly, directed their „-regards to the war on the Penin sula ; and, in the third and last place, had al-. hided to that contest in which we were engaged alone, and Which might therefare he considered as more : peculiarly - within our own province, namely, -. the _war with. America—a war which he WOUld O'er continue to think most unfortu nate and afflicting. endeavoming to folloiv the Right tic - in. Gentleman - :.:over these grounds, he would bek leave to-vary a little the order in which he had considered the several. topics. He "would take the war on the-Peninsula in the first instance, arid this he might the more naturally do . ; since the Right Hon. Gentleman had:spoken of it as the point iii 'Which they ought, by the ordinary course of policy; to snake : their effort ,as'a diver sion in favour -of Russia, : since -it could, not be - expected of this co.untry; that it was able, at one and the same time, to make A proper- exertion in . that qUarter, and nerve the aria Of Russia in the NOrth-,' by furnishing her with men- or money:— He beggeitto assure the Right Hon; Gentleman and the Honsej . that Ministers , would not be-in-. dined to_ rebut any censnre thatmight-be applied to thein;tin the ground of relaxation in their ef forts to' carry on 'most Nigototisly -the war in Spain ---There had been no 'retaxationion their parts- - -,1 »either bad they neglected any Means by which Was possible -for thenr,- by -previous provisions; to obtain-pos . sesBiow of . , sr:greater ,disposable force; They would not found their justification on any grounds of postponernent, or inclination to delay ,• exeeutiug that which -was- in their - power. Ile' Also rejected,• in theirnaose.. the- -defence that might be set- up for not .calling earlier on Par- , liament,to furnish, them with. more -extended Means. The Ministers of the. Prineellegentivere prepared to defend themselves ou the exercise the Means they actually did posses.F., or Could pos-: sess; and their having employed the resources en trusted to them to the Utmost,.without draining the country beyond that pitch - whieh no nation could sustain or suppOrt. Whatevel- mighi be the Right Honourable Gentleman's opinion on this head, .Ministers certainly could not look - on to make these, unnatural attempts by Gentlemen -en the . other . side ; -.by those ,who •had ever inculcated upon their minds tine necessity there was tor hits -binding our resources, and. -even. •on. the Penhi sula, keeping our exertions within bounds of the -strictest moderation. It was ngt his intention to throw. out any invidious reflection, and all h e wished to do at this tune was, -to lay in his claim to the grounds on :which he .shOuld'be prepared hereafter to combat any attachment of blame to his Royal Highness's ' advisers on this subject. In deed, it was obviously impossible for Ministers to .enter on an ample elucidation of the meastu es respecting ,which doubts - might be thrown out, on a night like the present, when all the numerous points, of policy connected with the country were th rown :open . for partial 'discussion, and their at tention was not - confined to a single object, though many.of those alluded to were sufficiently intricate and important to require of themselves their utr Most diligence powers Of inquiry. lie begged leave to caution the. House, againste,k ing; as it' was apt to be, led to expect too much from successes, or •to despair at reverses, even though . they might- be such as .placed 'the allied -fortes in the lines fir:Torres Vedras. -It was neither one disaster, or one vietorv,• that could decide the'f4e.. of the Peninsula,' and it was a dangerous feeling-to indulge,' whiellAvould be elevated be yond correct - views - even I.by such a yietory as , for the thanks of , t4e Rouse 3 Or he depressed .laeyond •oceasion by e:-erfrfailiffe 'of complete success that might at= tend our .exertions. When by the most consum mate Generalship, that vietors , , unparalleled in the, iii Story of the - war, and as g;orious, as, ever adorned theßritishname---When.tbatvictory Made the enemy feel its eifects.to the utmost extremi ties of his, force, and I disloCated his armies 3 he — cause• our illustrions and excellent Commander had accomplished thiS,had-they any reason-what ever tip suppose that the entire French power on- Ili'erPeninsttla, would be at: once . extinguished, and • the Allies enabled to march to the Pyrennees The public mind was apt to run into, &course too san guine,. and to believe any statement . Which might pretend that, the effect of a defeat like this would he the total extinction of the enemy in Spain.. But when the House reflected.that at the commencement Of the campaign, the French force Oil the Penin `sula amounted „to 200,000 men, which rya's per ' haps reduced by detachments sent to the North to 150,000, at the period of - .the battle of Sa lamanca, they would be inclined to, take. a different and:inure correct view of the Subject:. They would Observe that such a, force, when - spread oVer the face of Spaifi,:might rraintaiti the possession of the country, by:keeping down the spirit_of its popula tion, which they were now unable to do when col lected into two great masses. After the:memo rable battle - of Salamanca,. they were rendered too feebleto keep possession of 4ain, and hivtead of driving, the British into the sea,they were , driven, by the British. But When :they gaveupt pro "vinces and became a•concentrated army, any man looking with a soldier's eye might be able ra see,. that even after the battle of Salamanca, the Mar quis of Wellington had a heavy task to perform to drive the French'froth Spain:, IThey might wor ship the spirit of the people of this country,whos. exultation 'on 'the triumphs of their gallant court-. trymen ih Spain was . so great as to induce a sari— guine feeling, not warranted by the actual state of the case. But whatever expectations the people built upon, as fa,r .as Lord Wellington with his knowi ledge and information went, his. prospects had been largely and liberally accomplished. He could assure them that Lord Wellington had ceived supplies and reinforcements to a greater. extent than ever. - In the course of last year, 20,0 . 00. Men had been sent to join him, and he (1 . Ord C.) should be able to contend, that though large reinforcements had not arrived since the battle of Salamanca, this arose from the impossi bility of sending men sooner than had been done. •Adj6ln'tied. len; IPublishe4l by WILLIAM ARMIGEB SCRIPPS, South Molton-sticet, Grosvcner-svutre, r the l'«i) I Was to& am Zclikr,, &c. (past pr ice), must be addrussed. )• The exertions of the GoVertrzlent, and ie Ddeco: liar . iminner a of the Courmanderain-Chief (the Duke of York),- •tca Iming regiments to such a 'state,: of wileiency .as ,takrender them fit .for-fn reign serviee, had been 'incessant and strew/ohs. And• he had• to apprise the Right Hon.-Gentla mlin, that on the wisest principles the grants frorA the Militia had• not- heeh earlier available ass - a re-. •gular force„. till the month of May, and that nei-. ther the internal state of the >conntry, nor of Ire land, would, at a former period, admit of thase forces being spared which might now be united to their gallant comrades in the glorious task of delivering . the-Peninsula. He again repeated, that the . greatest possible efforts had been niadc' for an active ; campaign ; and he trusted- what he.had said on this t .point- -would be received as A fair .and candid solution of the doubts thrown oat by the Right Honourable Gentleman. Thus far he had rather opened, the matters at. issue tween the Right Honourable Gentleman and him self. He ,perfectly agreed with, him; 'that the' aid_to Russia onght to,' be given in Spain ; and he was also- re.adyato admit,- that as the .North opeued_praspects of -greater " a_uccessa insomuch , oughttipy,to . .make more strenuous - efforts on.. the Peninsula. With respect - to. the ,ivar the. North, the Right Honourable _Gentleman had laid what was-necessary for him 'to advert to, into a narrower compass, as heahad•not Made any chargs in so far - as Russia : was concerned. He and all_ the_ world must ,feel, .and none felt . k 'More than" the illustrious person at the - he *'of that vast Lan.-; Aire,,-who was so Likely to auleliorkite the destinies of= the wOrld, that it was.not to_ be expected from this Country ,to make larger: sacrifices; or its other • quarters, than . _ those in which' she was engaged, That great Monarch did a ,not call .on 'for De cuniary .support. He said, `-` you are fightingfry causeand thecauseof theworld in Spain; and there. : it is that your efforts will lie most available and aaajoua.ca . His Impeaial Majesty felt this bs the - EbTnilitiitrapoliey, in the common cause, and. in- - . Steatt€6fitdok4ng , to -us for aid, he has looked taa a ffff.ittreiLcatid nobler source--be has looked to thel4ericitilfina the liberality, the unbounded beralitlVilie spirit and the loyaltylof his peopie„. - to uphold him in the great atreggle for inde pendence in which he is . engaged, - raid to us ha has looked for the effectual carrying on the Cam, test in Spain. Of Sweden; to which the Right Hon. Gentleman has alluded, it is more . difficult to speak. Without divulgiug any of those .secrets 'which belong to the Cabinet of this tax oF. other' . ,countries, he might state that SWeden as well as Russia had received injury from France, and.both .hact felt it. Russia bad Wien the field to the aggressions . , her - adversary ; an d -therefore there could be - no iMpropriety Of speakingg-opena ly ,of her measures ; but as Sweden. had not taken 3. - §tO so decided, he hoped. the llanse woelCLane he a o6; ; opinion that he h a d a dutv• twete7 7 niana - 441entlered• it vei - y..diffic,ait foi• to make ati;ys_tery open statemt -. enon this point.— Yet witAl4ifittt eaceedinga - discretion, he might aaa, that if fhe exertions of Sweden, necessarily i., t::ar; '• than those of. R uss i a , had reqUired thespeaata,ary aid of this country, to cause a diversion in the I of the French armies, Ministers would haee :been ready to have assisted her operations to that'-ex tent. , He declined entering further into. ahis matter at present. France : hadacomuniteclaamt unqualified aggression "on the -Swedish MOD itch : which had as yet been. only nit lay.a aoiaaavhat qualifted resistance. Whit were the mativea - far ..collecting the force upon her coasts, ,it woal4 not, be expected for him to explain ; hat it a., - taild be seen with a feelina• of hope and exeltatiOu„ . that between - these great. Northern rowers., for they were : both great, caat of their contention, which' had " led to, the eis:aelh bcymeut of the province-of Finland troll", of that - contention a .sy.Stetn had ariaeu; wiiieh happily • h a d not prevented their being inked - , together in bonds of the c‘icise t g . nd But those who were not a tisfiedrwith this demoastnttion_of friendship, must have every apprefieusioo relieved bv: the peraotaal interview at Abo, atter which, SOJO men from the port of Sa"yinbargh were dispatched to Rign„where they arrived in tine to join General Wiatgen stein atthe critical period which enabled hi m t o turn the scale of the war in that qnarter, and de feat the object althe enemy's right wing. Heanight • ..also be permitted to say, that if there had -not been any actual military exertion - on the part. of Sweden, yet that much benefit had been; reaped froth the posture. which she ussumed. He called upon- Par liament to take sober views of these questions. Ho w. ever much we alight wish other Powers. to enter.inte _resistance against the enemy with as great energy aai;efeh'selvas, when we consider that not pos seillfilgothe advantages of_our insular _situation, theyrWere'nOt so safe and remote from danger as *ve oier'ev-we ought to look with,forbearance -to their , tneasiires, and not run them down, or impute Want of virtuous feeling to them, because they Might - not embark in hostilities with the avidity wedesired. [We' regret that, for want of room, we are under tha ne cessity of ()nutting the.remanider of the Debate.] • ..•:• . • .. - Mr. Wit vrta.EAD, after a long- speech,' in which he censured the ..truditet Of; Miniiters, eontiuded with moving an 'Aineln d ment, the.principal object of which was to; recommend Whit , Ptincc ltegt!fn. to COMM ence overtures for Peace: .. Mr. BA'Flitlit3T fel)lied to Mr. WHlTlntii.ll:!.. :Mr., PoNiONBY • disapproved . of Mr. Wn!'ettar.AVs Amend meut .on the subject of Peace. . _ After a few words from Mr. VERNON and Mr. .1 , •44,icr, tii 'Address was voted Without a division. - - • PRICE OF STOCKS._ hG.T.TTJ);; ; , rws DAY AT TWELVK O'CLOCK. . Civi4o 3-1 1.4 4 1 1Rtd.init.....5714 m 0amiu......4+1 • SUN ;V77; . jt a A L •• SOLEM QUIS DICERS FALSUNI AOIMAT? L 0 D 0 N, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 1, 181,2. There were not any arrivals this morning either froth the North or from the Peninsula: • PRICE .or BREAD—*ame.as last wee'..