The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-01 00:00:00

• • IMPERIAL PA RIAAMENT. - NO USE OF LORDS, April 30. The Loan CHANCELLOR. took his teat upon the Woolsack at Five o'clock. CHARITABLE TaUSTS BILL. The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said he had to preeenta rti tints from the trustee s o f th e Foureiline Hospital, against the Charitable Trusts NI. His Royal Hig',ness read the peti tion at length. whirl' was then hid on the table. The Oaken( WELLIN GTO al presented a petition from the trustees of the Lying-in Hospital against the same measure. Lord CAMP dELL said he had also to present to their Lordships' House several petitions against the Charitable Tracts Bill.—( Hear, hear, and laughter from Lord Braugharn ) His Noble and Learned Friend might laugh, but the petitions were from the Cordwainere Company and several bashes egainst that Btil. There were several petitions now lying on their Lordships' table, in which the petitioners request that the Ctamtnteeoners of the Court of Chaneery will pooreute certain itersons for ap plying in:iney which had been gyms' for charitable purposes, to their own in;livi 'nal u e. Lord C:)TTEN HA ‘I presented petitions from St. Mary, Whitechapel, Dnn:Jee, and several other places, against the Bill. Lord BROUGH A II sad that he had also a petition to pre sent from a respec'abl • indiaidual praying that this Bill might pass ; and it was not only the opinion of this gentleman, bat of several other individuals, that the funds given for charitable uses should not he applied to purpeees of jobbery,. gusting, ro eurion, and all those other vices which his Noble Friend.; were desirous to patronise.—;Great laughter, arid cries of " Name, name.") Oh, he would not conceal the name—the petition was from Mr. Henry Walker, surgeon, St. John's-street, Clerkenwell, and when his Noble Friend was talking about the number of petitions, and the number of petitioners by which they had been signed, he must Fay that he thought the number which he had presented was greater than theirs. But the real ques tion was, not the num ber of petition., bat', wh, ther they were right or wrong. Now, Mr. VI :deer happsnel to petition for that which was right, whilst those p r e-ented by his Noble Friend happened to be wrong. He would say nethiog further upon the subject, but reserve his suggestions until the Bill came under the discus.. sion of their Lordships. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petitien from Major- General Wyridtaina aerainst a railway proposed to be con structed in the north of England. near his property at Cocker mouth, by which his castle, which had continued in the pos.. session of his family since 1063—the days of Wiliam the Con. queror— would be very much injured. The line would pass within a third of a mile of the eerie. This was an irrerferenee which he was sure their Lordship would not sanction, the mere especially as the castle had beta in the posoession of the family for 84t0 years, aid h a d l a ' er l y b een very much im proved. The promoters of that railway, however, did not care if they had possessed it for 8,000 setts, or before the t ee d. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented several petitions against the Charitable Trusts Bill. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' AMENDMENT ACT. Lord BROUGHAM moved the first reading of an Act for amending the taw of insolvent debtors. Earl GREY presented a number of petitions against the Charitable Trust' Act ; alai another petition in favour of a Ten Hours' Bid. The Noble Lord also presented a petition from Manchester, eomplainind of the careless manner in which railways are managed, and praying the Meuse to pass an Act compelling railway companies to compensate the rela , ives persons killed upon their lines. RELIGIOUS OPINIONS RELIEF BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that upon the second reading of this Bill he felt bound to call their Lordships' at tention to it. His Noble Friend had framed a Bill last year for the purpose of repealing several penal Acts against her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects. He at that time asked the Noble Lord to entrust the Bill to him. His Noble Friend complied with that request, sell he (the Lord Chancellor) laid the matter before her ilajesty's criminal law ad visers, after which a Eill was inter), tuced to their Lordships' House which met with very little opposition, and was passed by a very great maj wity in the other House of Parliament. He had pledged himself to loot into the merits of the subject, and with that pledge he had complied, arid accordingly he had referred the mater to her Majesty's first criminal law adviser (Sir Edward Ryan) and other eminent lawyers. It w a s possible that considerable difficulty had been felt be some parties at some portions of the Biil. To the former part of it consides able objeetion might be entertained, but in the other be conceived these would be no ohjewion whatever, He had, therefore, determined to Aside the Bill into two parts. The first part related to :ore'. which it was necessary for minis ters of the Church of England, as well as Dissenters to make on certain th c.eoes. The other related to cer tain disabdii s ender which some portion of her Majssts's sub jects at preset', lals-ur d r, the first part r.n olijsceon wher ever coult be relies, and the ti , her propos-el to repeal no less than thirty Acts of Per iametit which imposed throb lities on persons of the Jewish t ersuasions. The two first of tnese Acts were those of Henry 111. vet Edward 1., by which it was de• creed that persons of that persuasion cou!d not po. , sess lantt or houses for their own dwelling That Act imposed various re strietions and inOsolities —one of then was that badges . 4f , ould be worn' beth by m a: it females. an-f it describe.) the form which these be. He theegho therefore, that he has! shown sari-tonere) , that it was necessary to affetel relief, aed that the Bill sheuld be read a second time. The next point to which he would allude was the penalties imp ose d b y t h e A ct of the sth awl 6th of E d ward VI., and he could nit refer to this without alluding to the Amos passed in the reign of Qu een Elizabeth and Char les. A torm of prayer was established in the reign of Edward VI., which was to be used in different chapels of the kingdom. Certain penalties were imposed upon those who did not conform and join in that prayer. Th it prayer was altered in the several reigns which succeeded. These penalties wet e afterwards confirmed and others were added. One of these was, imprisonment of six months for the first offence, for the second offence one year, and for the third offence imprisonment for life. These penalties were still existing, for they had been continued by different Acts of Parliament down to the present time. In the session before the last, their Lordships repealed them so far as they related to Roman Catholics, hut they were stiil con tinued so far as Presbyterian Dissenter% were concerned. A Dissenter, hoe ever, e,cap. d from these penalties by taking a particular oath ; but was not this an inconsistency? But their Lordships must remember that people of the Jewish persuasion were always subject to those penalties, for they could not take the oath to which he had already referred. He, hoped their Lordships would think, then, that the 3d of Edward the Sixth ought to be repealed. Now, then, the second penalty to which he had referred required every person to attend the service of the Church in his parish every Sundly, and if he d d not, be was liable to be admonished or subjected to a penalty. Now be proposA also to remove these penalties; but a Right Rev. Prelate, for whose opinions and character he entertained the highest respect, was desirous that the first penalty should be still eKlied to parties connected with 'the Established Church. It. was; for their Lordships to consider if any, and what, pcoceedines had been taken under the powers of these Art.'. lt. *lv r ea:ea then that for the last one hundred and fifty years no p , ceeetne,3 under such statutes had been taken, ant it was new for their Lordships to consider whether it was necessary to have such a law at all.— (liear, hear.) He alluded to the first of Elizabeth ; there was a clause which enacted that any one acknowledging the supremacy ad the see o f Rome, was subject to a penalty of forfeiture of ills goods and property ; for the second offence they were to be further punished, and for the third offence they were to he deemed Runty of high treason. 'These were monstrous acts, and ought to be repealed. It was true, that the Act relating to high treason had been repealed, but the others still remained on the statute-book in all their original force. lie proposed that these Acts should be re peal d . Th y applied alone to Roman Catholics. aril did not apply to sec , arrant generally. They 'all knew the Roman Ca tholics of this country, and it could not be denied, that the fundamental principles of their religion was to acknowledge the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff in religious matters. It was preposterous, then, to suppose, that any penalties could be retained against Roman Catholics for holding the ecclesiastical and spiritual headship of the Pope. But he had heard it in timated, not asserted, that opposition would be offered, from a quarter where he woe it hive least expected it; but if it were to be so, he conceive.t that no opposition could be more in famous, or less maintainable, more utterly hopeless than that was. This Act was not to prove that ecclesiastical supremacy which had been oter and over again declared by the ancient Acts of Perhernent. The words which specified it in the sth of Elizabeth were precisely the wo:ds used in the first. It had been stated before, in the same terms, in the. hth and 26th of Henry VIII., and was, he held, an inherent and an inalienable right in the Crown of the e realm ~ A Right Rev. Prelite, an ancient friend of his, proposed that the psneliies, as 'far as related to the ministers of the Established Couch, should not be repealed, with regird to the sepreinacy. To meet that, he would propose that these Ministers should still be subject to the censures of the Church; and would introduce a previso that the clause should in a r way a feet the other clauses of the Bill. He would now come to the statu e passed against Popish recusant., and with regard to that statute he should say that no one could doubt the pro.‘riets of 4b di•bieg the p , nalties which that statute imeosed Tee next Act of Parliament to which he referred was Inc stattu e of Jarne,, winch required parties to anent their palish ehoteh on the anniversary of wham wax tailed the gunpewiler plot, and any person who di.obeyd this injunction was liable to he indicts.' for a modemeanour. So far as the Retrial Catuolics wee.* concerned, thes , had already passed an Act ..t P ar l iament , r tieving them from - the provisions of thi- Act. but ~, they t ze . re,..ttlia l ipt e .ble t o the inemh -rs of the Clurch Eng4 n d - . urc their f...en,ter!, t iers ins of the. Jewhih p>r , u Asian]; but he w as Act tatight to be rep:. vf,.....ttua.gtrheeemwkilih,,,ll:nl'i'hhaetntf,haist Art of Parliame nt to *loch I la r c e wit.h.-.1 to refer, prohibite.i the introduction into this c m to r y ings, from 'he see of of ose A "k., and papers, and writ e Parliament was guilty of h• g t, ny ti .Z.,, r 7 ierialMlit this Act tried and executed for that offence . Eve ry holy a l:n t e i w " l l 7he toh his tory of this Pope Pius the Seve;th o. e' Queen Eiiz itieth, and the Bull for this purpos e I Z l TT i u e l ,: ca , " " ti t the palace of the Bishop of London, and upon some place i u n't.h o e metropolis of France, which excited the intii t4tiati.in of the monarch of that country. was waiter the e feelings that the Act was passed ; and he would tell their Lordships why it ought to be repealed. Their Lordships had already passed a law tolerating the performance of the Roman Catholic wor ship; but this could not be done with ou t t he c l e r gy and pre laves of the Church communicating with the Pope of Rome ; and it was for this reason, as Well as from a know . ledge that neither Scotland nor Ireland pasted a similar Act that he proposed their Lordship' should repeal it. He now came to the 11th and 12th William 111, which were two of the severest Acts that ever were passed. By these Acts any person seizing a priest after having performed mass, was to receive 100!. ; and every young person, on attaining the age of le years, was capes ueon to take a number of oaths'; and he thought their Lordships would hive no objection to repeal an Act of that sort. By the 2d of Anne, any person becoming reconciled to the Chu, oh of Rome, or causing another person to be reconciled to that Church, subjected himself to the penalties of jet cmerrire. Their Lordships. were aware that she effect of was to place a person out of the pro tectioa o f the il l P aw7 an d i t thad even been debated whether such a person might not be slain with impunity. He had no hesita tion in saying that that Act ought to be repealed. By another Act of Parliament , no person could keep a sc h oo l, or become private family, with out a licence from a tutor in a the Bishop or Archbishop of the diocese. By another Act of Parliament any person not going to t e o h id ur t c h h at and when he was was s es s e ub it e c e ts t to • pecuniary penalty ; were obsolete, he could not help under or five years fourteen poor labourers recollecting that within four had been co nvicted it, and sentto prison, and were only released after an applica tion to their Lordships. By the lit of Elizabeth, any person ? set going to church, or refusing to go, was subject to a fine of 2c.'. a month during the time of his abstaining from going. An option was given afterwards to the Crown to seize upon the lands of the recusant ; and in ens year the fines amounted to 30,1001. These ;enalties also affected a married woman, end if her husband chose ZO nay the penalties to liberate her, t he was only then freed ii 3 'n the consequences of her recusancy. He had new m tde his statement, an d h e was prepared to give every explanation in his pewter, to 'any Noble Lord that mig'it require it. If any mischief be Ile hail t 'mild result from reseal of these stringent enaetment, he now e con would be sorry po'ncr t at t e to prors their a h HT be read a second time. ell"P ' by Im" " I q uite eoncurre 1 with his Noble and Li e d BROUGH • L earne d Friend, alties on the statute book. He that nn man cbul,t rise in that House and pro the continuAnce of these pen p oie 'Me and Learne d Friend had se': jest . his Hun and Learned Friend on the e ntirely eJnentrad w W oo h ae ;,-, on this saj , et. H is law , _ en alluded to ti;e fart or this g raceful " rtian " into operatien th' • year IS4I, and he defied t h e to point out anytkuog that coahl more ohm the dormant THE srN, LONDON , rßin A ORNIN'a, MAC'' 1. lA4c; who repudiated his authority, or taken any steps to punish 'them. Then, as regarded the prlnciple of renouncing this su premacy, the rule was, that the bull was never repealed; other bulls melt be issued of decitletilv cmtrary tendency, but no b th i e l i withdrawn. Thu: it was !uppas e a t h at Z i ; ; ;:;;a7t ralY ill a i l niisted upon, bet no greater mist.:lse cuuid possibly be made. With respect to the Act of the 13 'e of Eli sabeth, he rvaa not at all surprised at its passing ; and whn i h e ilooked !hack to the perio.l, and the circumstances by which it was excited, and the history of these circurnitance,, he was not at all surprised at that Act passing, nor could he charge the parties through whom it becatne law with the spirit of persecu ewreoref porpoemnulylgpaatsiosendotfhbmuulltsh, itthenepoedoo.onitlycobe;obast;sarvifedtitlehraet tion which his Noble Friend had ascribed to them. A s to t h e I danger of promulgation of bulls, it need only be observed that t ang were any ilaegetous or tress in able matter in them, the parties publishing them were equally !Wale to prosecution wits any iyher doctrinal (Senders against the law. If the law of su premacy had been anything su!h as it was represented to be, he svou'd he a had C.c belie if he did nor hold it up, and extol it as his Noble Friend had done, instead of utterly and entire.) , rei:u iating it, as he emphatically did at the present moment. He felt hound to say that the rtempt to introluce Noel domi nation in temporal affairs in all the cantineutal countries. was without success. He would ask them to repeal tt:os> numerous .A.tts with re , erence to persons protesting the Roman Crhelic reagion, and to blot them out at once in the stature. Let their laws he a - little more in aceerlaiice with the other civilised Governments of - ':urope, and let measures be adopted at once to Jo away with the anomaly. Their Lordships might be assured that there WAS nothing to fear at the present moment with respect to any aternpte(husurpat ion of the Papal power in this country. Taey knew little of the Roman Catholic spirit if they could think that any attempted interference on the part of the Pope in temporal again would nit be resisted. Were they aNnainted with the state of society on the Continent, and with the spirit which existed in the various Roman Catholic State- ? Did they know what was the general feeling which ri.igned in the society in Italy and also in Spain within the last year or two? Had they read the writings of various learned authors in France? He was convinced there was no danger in the present mature, and would wiilingly kin in expunging those obnoxious Acts from the statute-book. He would leave, however, the entire management of all ulterior arrangement to his Noble and Learned Friends. Lord COLCHESTER said the Noble Lord had rererred to the temporal change in the Pope's supremacy which hart been made in other countries. Ile thought that the Pope had acted very wi s ely in interfering in Spain, Portugal, and other coun tries, because the state of us n 4 minds in those ccitintries was etch as not to admit of any interference en the part of th , i Pope in their temporal affairs. He thought that very great change• were taking place among the clergy in our country. and it was net altoge her clear that their domlivtion might not ul teriorly be gr..atly increased if steps were not taken to prevent it. He was quit., willing to acquiesce in the principle , ' of that Bill which provided that no penalty si'ould be intimied on any person profeAsing any riligion, whether he were a Roman Ca !belie, a Jew, or a Mahomedan. Lord CAMPBELL said he did not wish to throw any ob stacle in the way of his Noble and Learned Friend, but he thought at ad events he ought to have introduced the two Bits together, that they might be inked pari passe, and their Lordships might have the opportunity of judging of both. The state of the law with respect to Roman Catholics was most dis graceful. Roman Catholics were obliged to say that it was no pat of their religion to say that they did not believe it was lee ful to murder a man who had b:_eti exeorninuticated by the Pepe, before accepting any office) of trust. Noble Lortis pro fe.shog the Roman Catholic religion, before they could take a seat in that House, sere cenapelled to take an oath that they did not think it lawful, if her Majesty were excommunicated, that she could be dethroned by her subjects. The Bill, in its present form, met with his most. hearty approval. He felt satis fied, that unless some understanding was come to between this country and the Pope of Rome, tie Roman Catholic clergy in Great Britain would never be at rest with respect to the re ligious powers they might possess and exercise. An arrange ment might ea,ily be made which vimule settle all differences.. He hoped that the Bil would pass will the altno,t unanimous opinion of the House, and trusted that the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack would bring his other Bill before the House. snake into' a vicious vitality. . In that me the worthy magi strates could net forget the unfortunate men for poaching. But, determined as they were not to allow them to escape, one of the worthy magistrates cried on', e Oh, but you were not at church last Suadity." " Ne," said his victims. '' Oh, then," said he, " it's Queen Elizabeth's shillings." Teey were therefore fined Queen Elizeheth's shilling, which in value amounted to one pound eight shilling!, and they being labour ing men and unable to pay that sum, were committed to prison for (we mouth. The Act said that we must pttend our own parish church...so that it would not do if we were to attend any other church—for the words of the Act fixed the pl ice of worship. Pension, restricting a ;nan from the exercise o his religion aecereling to his own faith. penalties. not against the f individual for an act eomm itt e d against the country, but or the exercise of a p a rticula r faith ; for e expressed. pininua f or or it worship exercised, ought not to be allowed to remain amonte statute book. But when they proposed to em penalties edicts, the bulls, and decrees of a foreigatustprs eccles i astical, potentate, inflicted upon peisona for intreducing into thiscoun w t b ey o t a h s ts . as sumed superior juriotction in Tu tt .i ti a t i,s o ty ver the th vi e le w en ho o le er Esigland, be for one cotes not agree to such a proposal. histhe subject:ownotuitnthreyr, world, uut a1 1: n ne d o i e n e e the Church of El:gland , th e Sovereien, the State, or the If the Pope sent a bull int o this court, ry, in any way lioelling Par liament of this country as by law established, the person who fixed that bull up or published it was amenable to the law as it now sands. Bin the ingenuity of the Vatican did not stop there; the Vatican was too ineenioua to make any such mistake as that. It well knew how to issue its de crees through the priest to the congregation, and obtained such an influence as would very mischievously effect the minds of the people. He, therefore, saw great difficulties which in duced him to pause before be assented to the repeal of all i o s f i t v h e e to ß t o h m e s w h i e ll these penalties ; for there was not a body of men on the face of tmhaestearth thanm owreer s e lay th is e hly prl u es h t m s C hurch nr i ical a u t f ho u li r c yrs to the Pope's ceinmanda. They might laugh at the temporal power of the Pope, but threirsh the submission of the Catholic priests to their Sovereign. the Richop of Rome, there was no potentate in the whole wand more powerful in spiritual matters than the Pepe. The penalties of puernunire and reentency were absurd penalties, and they ought not to be allowed to remain on the statute-book. He bad only to add, that they could not altogether dispense with the prohibitions a= to processions. He knew how offensive these Popish processions would prove to the people of En4land, and he co wider. d that they would excite strong feelings among the inhabit:sun; of Birmingham and other townie. With regard to blia he would say nothing. as he did not think their orthodoxy could be affected by them. The LORD CHANCELLOR intimated that there was nothing proposed in the Bill with regard to bets. He had great respect for the Roman Cathreaca; he had nothing to do with their reli , fous suiterst.t.ons—be only wender-d how they believed in them.—t Laughter.) The 'Noble aria Learned Lord hat stated the case fur a repeal of this Act iu the clearest manner—aa he did on every other matter—and he trusted their Lordships would see the neees,if y of repealing the Act. The Bishop of LONDON sad he had to address a few words to their Lordships on the Bill before the House. He had not gone fully into a comparison of all these statutes, because it required rather a legal than a theological mind to look properly into them; but, after such consideration as he could give them, he had come to the determination not to resist he second reading of the Bill.---( Hear, hear.) The last enes tion was,' whether those penalties could not he melded, for it should be recollected that this claim of the Poae to supremacy had never b-en formally and openly laid aside or renounced. By that supremacy the - Pope claimed the right to exonerate her Majesty's subjects from their allegiance. He did not expect this doctrine would be openly promulgated, because he appre hended that the) person proclaiming would subject himself to the punishments of a seditious Act. He named this, because he conceived that it would in some degree account for the apprehension which it had been intimated was entertained by himself and the friends near him, and because he thought that this 13:11 might be going further than his Noble and Learned Friend apprehended and intended it should do. It should be recollected what the circumstances were under which the sth of Elizabeth was passed, and the fears which were then ascer tained. The Commissioners who prepared the Toleration Act, had expressed their opinion that the clause imposing penalties might be modified, but that it should not be altoe.ether abrogated ' If the Roman Catholic religion was tolerated at all he did not see how they could continue these penalties He was extremely glad that some objection had been made by a Noble Lord to part of the Bill, but hs quite concurred that as far at least as supremacy, it was a political question. He confessed that he at one time wi,hed 'he assistance of her Majesty's judges, with regard to these provisions, but after what Transpired he thoueht they wool.' geeeraly eoneur in removing those dishabilities from the freedom of opinion. Lord CA MOYS returned his thanks to the Noble Lord for basing introduced such a Bill, and he quite coecurred with him that these o.:ioee - peoalees 'should be repeated. He thought, however, that the laws which 'orbade Roman Catholics , to present to livings should else be repeel d. No evil could result from Rsman Catho'ics having that !. poser, for the clergyman - would require to be pre viously examined before his presentation to any lisinst, I (The Noble Lord then quoted from Butlsr's edition of Coke upon Littleton, to prove 11 - at no d tiger could result from licusean Catholics having that power. ) If the Arts of the 111th of George IV. were exsmined, it would be found that the Roman Catholic divine, who aaewed himself to be called Archbishop, was liable to a penalty of one hundred pounds. How would this apply to the Right Rev. Dr. Murray, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin. I/ f /VAR OF CO AI 110111 S, April 30. That .Right Rev. Prelate was always acknnwledged as the The SPEAKER tosk the Chair at Four o'clock. Arohbishap, but no such fine had ever been inflicted. The NEW atEMBER. Noble Lord then read the Acts referred to. He could not Mr. Enween UseatLes took the oaths and his seat for perceive what psssible purpose such Acts would serve, and he the boroug h of Rip°, thought the sooner they were removed from the statute boek YORK NEW WATERWORKS. the better. It was not the - cath e lies alone who sought to The Lords' amendments on the York New Waterworks Bill have these clau'es repealed, hut there was a large partO, were read anti agreed to. struggling far the sake of common sense and toleration, who METROPOLIT AN SEWAGE MANURE COMPANY. wished to see th es e penalties bl o tted out of the statute book. C , lonel T. WOOD moved the second reading of this Bill. Representing, as he del, the Roman Catholics of the United Sir DE LACY EV ANS presented two pinion. against the Kingdom, he thought he had stated sufficient to induce the Bill, anti moved that the secoted reading be adjourned for a Noble and Learned Lord who sat upon the woolsack, to take fortnight. the subject into his serious consideration, and he would leave After a f-sv words from-Mr. MANNERS SUTTON, it for the good feelin g and tolerant spirit of the Noble Lord to colon e l WOOD consented that the second 'teasing of the hereafter adopt the suggestions he had vent ure d t o t h row Bill should be postponed for a fortnight. out.—(Hear, hear.) NoIITH AND SOUTH JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL. The Bishop of EXETER wished, after what bad f a ll en f rom Mr. GREENE moved that the order, referring the North the Noble Lord who had just . sat don e to say a few words, hut and South June ion Railway Bill to the Committee of Selection, - he would promise not to detain their Lordships for more than a be read ; thatehe said order be discharged, and that the said Bull few minutee fee did no t intend to oppose the Bill which was be oi;hdrawn,—The motion was aeresd to. befoie their Lordships, but notwithstanding what had fallen RAILWAY COMMITTEES. from the Noble Lord who last addressed the House, be could Mr. DUNCOM BE moved the discharge of the order for in not helpthinking that these penalties were as justly inflicted structim t o Committees on railway Bull, and to move amended upon certain eartiea at the time they were enacted as they instruction, namely, by substituting for the words, tt And that were now justly blotted out of the statute book. Until that the Committee report speciall) on each of the fwegoing par evening, he thought the day hail gone by when a Noble ticulme," the wwds, .4 And that the Committee immediately, Lord would get up and speak against an Act of Parliament on h a ying completed this branch of their inquiry, report . spo which gave himself the right , f a seat in that Horse, and their cialle on each of the foregoing particulars."--The amended in- Lordships she benefit ot his Attendance and advice. The Noble stru4ions were agreed to. Lord, in speaking of the same Act, said a stranger coming in at NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN CONNECTINr3 the moment, anal hearing what he said, would think he µas RAILWAY BILL. quoting an Act passel in 1816, instead of 1846, but in his Colonel T. WOOD moved for leave to twesent the Northern t opinion it was foolish for the Noble Lord to talk in this strain, and Southern Connecting Railway Bill.' notwithstanding the M because al hough there w ere s . me o ff ences which s li d not de- order of thc use.— flue moti n . was agree.. -. to. e serve to be treated as acts of high treason, yet it was neceieary FORTH AND CLYDE N A VIG ITION. for - their Lordships to put u p w i t h the incotiven'e.ice Ma-. LOCH moved that th e pet i t i on of the C. . enpanv of Pro of proh•hit trig these offences, by sanctioning a legis- prieters of the Furth and Clyde Nay, aeon praying for le a ve . lathe measure which inflicted upon parties coin- to wi ini , aw the;r firm - r petition thr.Stirlireshie milling them penalties of a trifling charaetsr.--a Hear, hear.) l alitilaed Junction Railway Bill, be read, and that the ' Bill be . At• the present moment (lucre was a Bill passing through loafed as an unopposed Bill, and referre d t o Mr. Greene, and the other House of Parliament, which appeared to him to the Members ordered to prepare and bring i n the Bill. comprise the objects of this Bill. Ha did hope that that Bill, This motion was also agreed to. which did in face contain a clause similar to that to which RESOLUTIONS ON R I.ILWAYS. - the Noble Baron objected . Would not pass that House, but be Mn. RICARDO observed there was some difficulty in the was quite sure that if ever it reached their Lordship's table it minds of railway proprietors as to the interoretition of would either be largely modified or altogether rejected. He one of the resolutions that had recently been passed who was 'at the present time Prime Minister of the countre, with respect to railways. lie wished to know whether tie and who had been mainly instrumental in passing the Act of pros uctien of scrip would be sufficient to meet the order •f the 1829, had stated in the henesty of his heart, and he believed Houss, without the attendance of the holders a his heart was honest, that if ever any eff e ctual attempt were Sir GEORGE CLERK replied that the resolution was made to do away with the small security which that Act suffisiently explicit, ani the best answer he could make to the preserved, he would, give it his sternest and most decided op- lieu. Gentleman was to read it. The Right Hon. Baronet poSition. The Bill in the other House had already passed then read the resolution of the House, which only required the the second reading, but he believed that it would be impose production of scrip without the attendance of the holders, sible for it to receive the sanction of the Legislature. In the either personally or by proxy. Act of 1829 there was a section of what the Noble Baron te,-med Mr. HOPE JOHNS TONE moved that the Committee on petty regulation, but which he himself conceived to be of little Group No. Bof Railway Bulls have leave to sit and pro cee d importance. 1 hat section imposed a penalty of 100'. upon any on Monday next upon the Caledonian Railway (Leith June. one assuming the title of- blshon, archbishop, or dean of any tion) Bill, and Coledoni.n Railway (t lid Lothan Branches) province to which they were Lot entitled by the law of the Bill, notwithstanding that sever, clear days' notitte of the sitting land. It was evident to their Lordship-, that there could tee of the Committee on those Bills has nut been given at the Pri be two bishops of the same province at one time. The f _et vote Bill otEce.—Agreed to. was estentished, anti the law that ruled it was recognised ; and LAW OF SETTLEMENT. it was no derogation fr.m it, that the efferce hail teen repeat- Colonel T. WOOD presented a petition from a place (the edly committed. because - there was a difficulty in bringing the name ot which we could net hear) comp aining of the I,w of parties who had offended'under the penalties of the Act. It settlement at present existing. and praying for its abolitio n . ~ , , Rs not because letters ,appeared in the newspapers, signed SALMON Ft Sit ERI ES. " John •of Team," that the parties were consegitently Colonel CONOLLY presented a petition from the owners of convicted of the offence. They might certainly sub- salmon fisher i es in Ireland, stating that some of them had re eceea'the editors, - but unless it could be shown that a letter centiy lest 5.0001. in consequence of the recent enactment, felt bat( been aetually }laced in theirbands, signed in tse hand- biking ths fishing of salmon during more than one season in writing of the person eh, claimed the title, they had no else] the year, anti praying that this stringent enactment might h« proof of the ()Grim. But thete was another impertant cense- rem-wed, and the laws relating to salmon fisheries in Ireland, quench w hich floated from what the Noble Heron stalled petty assimilated te laws of England on the game subject. leeislation. This wsa the declaration, under the Act of 1824. SELLIN . SPIRITUOUS LIQUORS ON THE tea. the Church 'of England and Ireland was the Catholic SABBATH. Church, and that the humanists either in this country or in Mr. LAWSON presented a petition aiainst the selling of Ireland, were in a 'tats of schism —( Hear, hear.) spirituous liquors on the Sahhath. He would now ask if the Romig Catholcs were fit persons to TN F. DANNEI CLADS. tru.teea to present to he be nefices? He was astonished that Mr. G. HUDSON presented a petition in favour of the . the refusal of t e state to grant, stvh a power route! be con- Danish Claims. Iseiered a &gra le' ien. It was a gross anomaly in the law of ADP WANED DEBATE ON THE COERCION BILL. the land to slow any but memhsrs of the Established Church to On the motion sf the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE make suc h pr4sent ariens. Before ttonclualitie hel would allude QUER the motion of the day for resuming the adjourned de- hrietiv to the RAI itsel in some of it s s provisions . This was bate on the Irish Coercion Bill was read for the purpose of not the 8-at nor the huridroth '' was discussi,d. if the hill tone the question of supremacy being s nostpnred ill to-morrow.—Agreed to • would be countenancing tl pa ssed ~,s,i in .. its present form they THE CALEDONIAN RAILWAY. o f the Pope in t A,,,, most ill iber al of the supreinacy Sir J. GRAHAM said he had a petition to proaent from Pope chose to assert. 11„, , : ,,,,,d al bemanner that any himself. with the Noble and Learned Lerd i glad to concur Ti e SPEAKER said the Hon. Baronet could not present a ii. naltie3 of prmatuire and • high t n mitigating the petition from . - him-ele—( Laughtsr. ) reason but the e • as to the supremni of the Pope ought' to have nactment Air. S. HERBERT, under these circumstances, presented touched, anal he considered the safest way would been have left un- the'petition from the Right Hen. Baronet. It was concern mitigate these penalties null r than abolish tlietnaavietobeetnh"' Mg the Calectonien Railway. Nominally the Pope had no direct temporal b ut h er ' NOTICES OF MOTION. power, teeti a he had that, power indirectly. He had the power of de • . tr. SPOONER p.,,tpJned his motion relating to the Wl thraning kings. It would be remembered that the Pope, when - (lon of alr. Tonimin Smith from the 12th ti ll the 14th May. he was erected to the pontifieal - throne, sent letters Pe) Dr. BOW RING moved fora copy of a p etition of the in- . sovereigns of Europe announcing the fact . '. During to the habitants tif matte to the Qteeti in Cotincil oth subject of of Napoleon. the Pope eightydeposed bishos because the reign 1 their grievances , and espi.cially complaining n .e su j . . of the interference did rot subscribe their allegiancetohim. bisho p s Now this act they itf I of the police at the last Carnival.— Agreed to. the Pope was defended by the great friend of Roma n Catholics, THE POST-OFFICE. Mr. Charles Butler, who went into a very able and lear ned Captain VIVIAN wished to draw the attention of the Heuse argument in support of this deposition of bishops, beeatise they to letters great irregularity which took place in the transmission wou ld not give the allegiance which they had sworn to L ouis of and newspapers from the General Post - office, and the Eighteenth, to the usurper of the throne. He was a ain t , s t i upon i tete suhjeet he would desire to ask a question of the taking off the statute book the penalty of supporting and eng.enes 1 tight lion. Member the Secretary for the Treasury, ing the pernicious principles instilled by the supremacy of the i whether the Goner were prepared to make any Pope. No difficulty had been experienced from the etatenee of I i rran tr e fi ements on the, subject ? A friend of his, only these Acts except that they were declared to be a disgrace to the I t: t i t e r , re d miles from London, was accustomed to receive his statute book, and if their Lordships gave them up, they would, He Z u a t t e l to papers eight-anal-forty hours after the proper time to anj extent, be acknowledging the' supremacy of the Pope. formed him t hi li s t ue s w'agent' a Air. Sin"h, who, in reply, morn- Thein common law of the country discountenanced this moire- I L e ta ti io v sacks of newspapers, posted in the ine,were ref macy, and he could see no reason why they should not do so believed that it t A the evening. He (Captain Vivian) in the present Act. It was di ffi cult for him to say how the believed Mr. CARDWELL was arose from a deficiency in sorters. should do this, but because it was surrounded with difficulties . plaint againit the delivery rather surprised to bear any com he•would lerre it in the hands of his Noble and Learn.' Friend i sense irregularity in nthe of letters. He was aware of on the woolsack, believing that his actin. and intelligent mind There had been a very great tr . ansetission of newspapers would find some means for getting rid of the di ffi culty. the Londen (lady pa; increase in the circulation of era by the morning mails 'thin the le s t Lord BEAUMONT. wished to join with his Noble Friend 1 two months, an,. he thought that H on wi who sat next him, in thanking the Noble and Learned Lord 1 surstit.ed when h e stated to them that G te h d e held i n hi s Gentlemen wo u ld b e for introducing this Bill, and to say a few words upon the hand a retur n i n wh i ch it was sta subject last alluded to by the Right Revereud Prelate who had ! week within the pres en t year the nn that in on e mber of new ' just resumed his seat.—(Hear, hear.) He was not surprised I papers (tarried by the P os t- o ffi ce was no lees than 729 7 s. that the Government had thought it necessary to take some Perhaps some Hon. Gentlemen were not aware of the l measures fur securing themselves against the supremacy of the some of those newspapers. He held i n hi s hand One af iulk of rh Pope, but there were abu n da n t means for guarding against newspapers, and 729,000 of those had been forwarded ino use n any a b use of their privileges which their priests might exercite. w eek alone I—( Hear, hear.) The irregulariti es complained o 7 might well avoid all this by a concordat, or by doing as as he had already stated to the House, were b y no ' They means every other Government in Europe had done, by placing general at the POSt•offi connected or in any way with that ! thelie de p artment themselves in relati en with the Government of Rome. d , They wore from causesany other Som., they done so, all difficulty would have ceased, for to all those I newspapers wore sent without covers, and some were misdirected had done so, resc:i ts had been forwarded i Some were sent at the very last moment. There were many empowering which . . p 1 which the Post - officeauthoritie s s n Y them to take the direction of the clergy i nto their irregularities for . be as obedient in I accountable. With regard to the responsibility of the Post.. own hands, and then it became their duty to all spiritual matters as it was their duty to be in temporal. But of fi ce, he had alre.atly stated the great increase which had tak en in fact this degree of supremaey was altogether regulated by place i n th e (lispstch of the morning mails within the last two also beetle entedderab i e increase • in the different rules than those which were g'rierally supposed to be. months, and there had _ . had been new machinery. which had The doema of supremacy, in fact, had never been fully carried I public hu.iness. T here . .51 on I here ha i beer , an att. oat. What was the eetirto which the Court 4 Rome had pun- - only rec. fitly been put two opt r I. h h appointed to ti.. , hinge r e inctestun g sued with regard to Si al.. ? What with regard t • Fence and ditietial number of persons app He ved, other countries ? Why, it was well known that the Pope had' duties, and he had every reason to believe that the irregulati als never excommunicated the clergy who bad obeyed the rulers ' ties complained of would soon be remo , : hut o the The LORD CHANCELLOR, in reply, said he would deal with the case of supremacy. It had been suggested by a Right Rev. Prelate, that tte Judges shotfd be summ , med, in order to give their opinion upon that point. He objected to such a pro ct eding, because that poMt was so clear, that the JudgPs would th•nk it a mere w late of time for them to attend. A very lygli aetitority had been consulted, and hi. opinion eras clearly in accordance with his own, which hail been expressed on a former occast'n. Another Tie4tion with respeo, to the promulgation of bus irorn the. see c,f Rome. had arisen. Bulls had, however, been imported with impurity into Scotlan.i, and no h,irm had a,i.en, not had any harm been anticipated. Why, thrn, was there any da,ger to apprehend from their importation into England ? The harm was purely imaginary, and was not w .rth a molt. nt's con4idera.i.m. Lori CAMP iF.CL want. d kn wv when they might ex teet to see the other lid; of hie Noble and Learned Friend? The LORD CHANCELLOR said that perhaps his NAI L . and Leaaned Friend wouid .ak charg- of it himself.— ( Hear.) He believed that " bulls " re included in the new tariff, and noeld perhaps be admitted under a Custom how, regulation. The Hil' WAS then read a second time, anti ordered to be committed. Their Lordships then adjAurned sltisfaction of ,tating to Elan. Geni- men that he was in constant communication with the authorities at the. Post.ntlie, and it a,peareil that there were • cite ntan'es preient esi s tim i prev:mted them from discharging their doi ies in an effie,e , i m iry,ittr. They were, however, most anxious to taw.,` ev,'y puiiible r.ie , ns fix the due cEsitharge of the init. portantwhich &volved upon them. CONVEY ANCC. OF TROOPS TO TIIE COLONIES. E 4he.i to atk a qu, , F•tion of a tueii he hail given notice. name y. whit:her :t:u:liitietit provis'on hai been mules having lit--boats to ace•impany such ships a, conveyed oar troips to the colonies? The public were mnell interested in the answer that m'ght be given by the Government t.) this imprtant qu'9ti n. Sir G. COCKHURN made some answer to the Hon. Metnlter, which was perfectly inaudible in the gallery. At the the coue , n- , ion of his remark 4. Mr. HUME stated that the Hon. Baronet had quite mistaken his quition, with reference to the nuinb , _ir iif with which earth ship was to b•• provided. Mr meant only that one life.b iat shioull be carried in each ship, co , the pal) v4e of e , nveytog a ripe to the shire in (wie of shipwreek. 1-1- would aid( tne President of ihe Hoard of Trade wheth ir any provhion had be , n mad , i of this nai we? sir G CLERK ;tve I that ?h. Ath'ect had been under the consideration of the Board of Trade. THE IiEEitsr:LLERS. Mr. M. PHILLIP:'; wished to ask the Right 11.. n. Bironet the Sec eta: v for the Home El - pi..tra.tnt a qu?stion with re spect to certain peitions which bad been preaented from the twersell-rs of thy' coo try. Tne beersellers were aniiious to know eh ttlier it was 'he intention of the Government to legis late at all with r.,ference to their cla;in to be placed upon an equality with the licensed victuallers ni the country. Sir JAMES GRAHA:II sail he had received a great number of memorials upon this subj , et. One of the privileges of the licensed victualers was, that they should keep their hove' open during tbs. , night. Of course, if the b?ers,Uers were placed upon an equality, they would c!aiin a similar right. Were strth a privileje .-xtended, h.' had no doubt th it it would be abused, and therefore be -ould not h.ild out th I.ast ex retati-in that any legislation could take place upon this subint. Mr. BELEM/ wished to ask the Right Hon. Secretary tar the Home Deparfm?nt whether it was tb+' intention of Govern ment to act on the rec - :mnendation of the Landlord aad Tenant Cotninis4on. ant! c•tos , loa - e ;he offices i f C erks of the C-own in it lferent. counties in Ireland, or replace them as the offices became vacant. , : ,m . ..... o f a Clerk of th e C rown i n Tr&and was a very G:tAl4 A Al (who was very imperf ec tly h ear d) sa id that S i n the j. impor:anr office in co:inction with the constitution. The lion. Member. as well is the lloii,e, mutt be aware that tfte were appoi n t e d b y th e C ro an on th e re ,,pnanaviiers of the C ro w n . Th e v ar i e ty o f Clerks oflin,.e.st, e of lity t n ~ ahe of ther w i dCe(oi n,iiler , ..ble expenoeo, ard the Government "has preparing a 13i11 to c•itimilintte thoie office', under Or., recom mendation of the Comrais,ion the than. Member had re ferred to. MESSAGE FROM THE LORD S . 3l , 3,engilr, from the Lords brought op ~ ever.4l Bilis, which were ordered to be laiii on the tab!e. INSOLVENT MB roas' ACT. Thy ATTORNEY-GENERAL, who was very heard in the gallery, was understood to ask the Hon. Member for Lambeth to postpone the second reading of this be cause it would be quits impo.:siole. on that evening, to give it the consideration which it merits demanded. Mr. HAWES said lie was quif; ready to-accede to the Hon. and Learned Alensher's proposition, by postponing the second reading till that day fortnight. ,_ _ PRIVILEGE— W. S. O'BRIEN. Mr. ESTCOUR moved that the adj turned debate on the proceedings connected with the Hon. Member for Limerick be resun:ed. Mr. E. B. ROCHE said that it would be in the recollection of the Flout?, that at the conclusion of the debate tri the preceding evening it had been his duty—his painful du-y —to come down to that. House, instead of his Hon. Friend, in order to mak- a certain statement to the House. Ttae Right Hon. Baronet opposite, acting, as he ( Mr. Roche) admitted he did, is the forest and most asncable sidrit p•sible --(Cheers)— thought well to give his Hon. Friend eight-and-forty hours to consaler his resolution. His Hon. Friend had considered what course he should pursue, but he complained, and he (Mr. Roche) considered that io that complaint he was jti.tified he corwptained that he had had no opportunity af explaining to the H use the posit ion in which he was placed. and the reasons which had actuated him in adopting the course he had followed under the circumstances. He did not know what course his Hon. Friend would have pursued. but what he would suggest .vas, that the House, either by a positive mo.inti, or in s ome other way. would allow his Honourable Freud to come to the bar and explain the reason for his adoption of the course he hat pursued on this occasion.—( Hear, hear. ) It might. be trite that he was asking the House to pursue an unusual course, inasmuch as it slight be at variance with the rules and regulations of the House, but he was sore that, when he appetled to the House on behalf of the Honourable Gen tleman, who .tooi in the painful po.ition of not being sustained by many individuals in that /base, he st o "d in a painful pn.iti , n. la , cause he had taken a course of acti .n differen. from that adop ed those who u-ualiy awed with •him. He was sure, however, that the House would see that, whatever might be the nature of the rules and regulations of ' ll, House. he considered that, in jastim and f.irness, and ails their usual desire to see fair play administered, that they would, in their indulgence and kindness, grant the motion which he had risen to make. lie had therefore simply to move as an amendment, " That Mr. William Smith O'Brien should be heard in his place." Mr. O'CONNELL seconded the motion. Mr. HUM E apprehended that there could be en olisctlon to grant the amendment of the Hon. Member. —( Hear. ) He was anxiou. as any one to maintain the privileg-s of the House. but at the same time, when a request was made in the way in which it. hail been made by the Hon. Member, he thought the House should assent to it, provided, however, that the grant ing of it would no materially itverfere with the rules of the House. He hoped they would agree to the motion. Mr. R. YORK E said he had somewhat eons dered the qww tion, and if they wished t. preserve the rules of the Hotoe itivio.ate, tt would be absolutely ital,ossible to grant the not ti ai of :he H Member. —( Several Members in the vicinity ot' the Hon. Member called out, " Why," but he made no response.) • Mr. O'CONNELL said - his Honourable Friend (Mr. Smith O'Brien) would no► doubt be seisfied at the way iti whilo the sut,ject had been brnught before the House, but he (Mr. O'Connell) did not think his case had b-en int in a proper mann , .r heciire the House. Si; ROBERT PEEL—Sir, it is my desire to relax the strict rules of the House as tar as possible —( Hear, hear)—and at the same time I do think that, as far as my private indin :ulnas are concerned, I wish to act on that principle; but in the position in which stand I owe a duty . to the House—(Cheer,;)—and therefore it is of the utmost importance to consider whether it would be' advisable to e9tabtisb a precedent, by granting the amend- ment of the Honourable Member. We must con sider what wit be the sffeet of the relaxation of the rules of the Muse. 1 must remind the Honourable Member ( Mr O'Connell) that the Hon. Member for Limerick ( Mr. S. O'Btien) hid every ojr:eirt unity off ere d t o hi m to b eg t h e or d er which 'us; made on th e su bj . ct ; an d I d o d i st i nct l y re - Aking oe th e so j-ct, he 9aal that although eoil : .c tthe that , f I in. he had suet] an opp irtunity, obey he did not think he should it, because his ssent ientsm ents the subject were already on record in the correspondence which had taken place on the subject, and t o • w hi c h he said he must refer as the grounds for refusing to attend. I find, being in hi= pace, and having been called upon by the Sraker, he s tated that he had alrear;v given his reasons, that he hat no tu•ther obeervatinn to diet upon the matter, and that he sill held his determieat;on. He then withdrew. Now I apprehewt. having declined to obey the orders of the h e i s in, what is technically called, contempt. Whether or not there were precedents for acceding to the motion which was made, I am not awwv, but I beg that you will have the goodness to state what are the rules of his House. Ii they are in favour of the extension, I should certainly be rej, iced, but if they are the reverse, I shall feel it my psitiful duty to support the rules of the House. The SPEAKER —1 must state, with very great regret. I rememb I. no prec‘elent which would justify this House in acceding to the amendment. —( Hear.) The Honourable Gentleman had an opportunity of bcing heard in his place, and that was ;he time to make any explanation he 'thought proper. The Hon. Member did net do that, and the House of Commons th,n resolved that he hid been guilty of a con tcrit,t. I cannot call to my memory any precedent which would justify the House in acceding to this mot ion. Mr. ROCHE of course, bowed to the decision of the House, and he would now beg leave to ask whether there was reason why the on. Member should not be heard at the bar of the [Luse? The SPEAKER said that there was no precedent fo• an Hon. Member appearing at the bar of the House unless as a criminal. qtr. GRATTAN said he had been requested by his Hon. Friend to sta+e, that when he had the opportunity of being heard in his place. he wa4 not aware of the motion which the Chairm:n of the Committee of Selection should propose. Mr. ROCIIE—Of course I bow to the decision of the Speaker. Th.• SPEAK RR then put the queition—that William S nith O'Brien, El., having been guilty of a con'empt, by neg`ect ing to attend a rAlway Committee during the prewnt ses• sion, after having been summoned, resolved that a warrant do issue aga:nst him, and that the Sergettit•at-Artn, do arrest him aecordingl•. .11r. M. MILNES, :,midit great impatience, 'ail he rose humbly ►o submit to the attention of the House whether it woul , l not he po..sibie to avoid the uuplea•an•neis of agreeing to !he course proposed. He believed it Wa3 perfectly clear, that if the Ilonoorahle Member should conti, ue to rt•maiu in a vs's of c intempt he could not take his seat in the !Luse, nor of course take.part in the proe.edings. If this b i e low a , hie r, Lo too t k ake part debate were adjourned till that day six months, h.• app e ,... hended thst the Honourable Member for Limerii•k vt.mbl in the deliber‘lio , s of the House, and he dd think that the best way of av•,idir g the one',easantness th.t attended the eou ► se recommended by the Hon. Member that bad made the original motion w.m'it months. —(Loud e:ies of " Divide , divide.") be to agree to the adjournm.nt of this debate :ill that day r a i" H ox 31E-sincis having s , contled this amendment, tl:e Hon. Member said, that as it appeared not to meet the views of the House he would withd:aw it.—( Hear, hear. ) B o r t i i e o n n 8 n n being ni d Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. No division, agreed te. It wasP place Zn orderediacnsettqlautenMcer: oSfmit;hheo7 be "'omitted to the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms, and that Mr. Speaker b. directed to issue hit warrant accordingly. on the THE DANISH CLAIMS. Mr. lIAWES rose . am idst much confusion, and !poke as follows: Sir, one, more I venture to make an app e al to I he House, and once next , wa ke the motion which I hovel laced P.iPee of to-da , to consider of those Danish claims which ar ose out o f tra p -actions which occurred in Denmark in In occup )eg the year 1807. Sir, after the arguments which have been adduced ageinst this question, and the many discussions which urged have takers place upon it, I should hardly feel myself justified that I stroee, st ~tat conviction of the equity and justice of these claims. the time or the House, unless I entertained . the I will endeavour, Sir , to compress what I have t . o say *lvo a "."" compass. Now, 9 Sir, the arguments which have been theth that t Hon,tk ow n ' ' raised against these claims have merely, so far a - -t I have . been enabled to c . oisi•ler them, resolved thenvelves into . two in num ber. They have been of a financial character, which have been the Exchequer, who, I think, rather looked to the di ffi culty of Upon the House from time to time by the Chancellor of m"etin g the claim, than to the justice of the case. The other odjection was of a far more important character, and cr,e legaln an l d feel Loeb Le a rned remenuihnGsd Gentleman e h hrn l t yani haven opposite,cboerei contending e n ra d wi i s n eh f ol . with. he as sr. e ex hibite d especially I li, by o h w be a t; cult consider ab l e cht k oh n a o mv w ee l e e bt d ee. g e n ju o k, f .ggeodv law—especially .hon,,t,ht adtet there e i r n r t e e , r ia n rf a eh t p i m o I n a : on l ysd law— are diffi culties !on - sounding this questio n. Nevertheleave those diffi cultieslnui a1 , 4 .= 1 th'e , sloils, from affirrulno - . by considerable majorities, the the of the claims that were urged on the attention of ~,e. Lem,. Now the circumstances out of which these claims arose I may state in a very few words. In the year 1807, th e B r i tish Government h av i ng b een i n f orme d th a t the Danish fleet e.- . to he placed at the disposal of Napoleon, adverse to t e interest a d' this country, determined, upon the nu in!, .• • ' ---414 0 -,,, had reeeived , to take measures for seizin g th, t a ,• t,. he ei l eoli•ien was trip •ha• was Rot tie wnh 'l4, g,..e,est ftec.cey and the weatest et- mo. nu le. am! I need only re, to the eutirs relating to the flaw out and i arrivalofth e expeditiou ea the coast ut Deuutark, iu order to show to the House that the expedition was so p-nmie anti secret that the British merchants could nit by pie have had any intimation of it. That exfoole, cared tram this country on th 3 27th of July, airl ived c ith the British Minister, at Copenhagen, on the ! Cops nhagen was ioveeted on the &h. This ex v • w cut not for the purpose, as it has.since transpire;', of making a hostile Aggress shin on Donal rk, but for the puroase of eliforeii;e:a negiria- 'ion. A negetiatinn was entered into on the arrival of the fleet "ft the coast of Ireenat b: fore any act of hostility commenced. It continued fru .n for a co. - t.titieraVe time atter. The Danish ft-et was seivd. and Denmark, , -f eou,se, pi 4..e•1 an ernha-go on Blitih property. and British • veseeli, an , Dinish proi'erty and vessels were in tarn seized by • the British. Our Government took properti to the arreint of 1,3.:0,00 , an - t the Danish Government sited property to halt that amount. The negotiations had ci:m nenced before a single shot was tired, a , I have before said, end continued Inne after the surrender of the fleet and the seizure and cenfiseation of preeer y. This negotiatien came to no satisfactory eionclu sion, aed D.eirnark &dared war against this country on the 4th of November fallowing; hut it was not uotil the 24:h of Deeeintier tire • Britain deelared war against I) • nmark. It is urged by the R:ght Hon. Geotleinan, the First Lore of the 'f reasery, it he will permit ine fer a memen• to refer to him, that this .fpg+tration of war on our part WO natural and twee... nary in defence of our own prooerty. The fleet of Derim it k was s:tz -41 and Cu peobagen attacked by Hritish arms while a convention was pending ; an<l this aoeventio a ileeared that al tut; ilittee were to cease, and that all pubic and privaes pro perty was to be re-pecleit. I allude to this eonventinn for the our,iese of shoeente that it mast have b'en io farce up to and at the period or the declaration of war. 1 he declaration of war did not set aside the provi.ione of the convention to which I have allude,l. and therefore the parties for whom I seek the erotection of the House were entitled to the ben: tite of its provisions. Not to give them Jhat benefit was all '..-rant, violation of that convention. The debts arose out of th, declaration of war. Some time after these trans. actions took p'oce, Mr. Caiiriirg mitie a remarkable itle claratioo on • Irs subject. It was in answer to Mr, l'ereeval, who broiight the que.sti:m of these claims under the considera tion of the (louse. (The Hon. Member here read the extract, • trot frorn the noise that prevailed in the Houle it. Was impos sible !o catch the words. Its !melee was, as iar as wit ceuld gather, an admission on the part of the Governinere, that the claims were founded in justice and ought to be cntertained ) Whatever opinion might hive been entertained of the trans action at the time which it happened, - it woe certain since that time Parliament had on several oecaaloni admitted that the ::policants orb, had sufLred diming thit war, ae.l utader the convention to which he had referred, were entiled to consideration. The claimt put forward were of three kinds. The first claim was that of those who - owl d e bt, owing to them by Danish 5 übj-ets. Toe sec-end kind of claim were tho.e preferred by 11,0-chants, who o'ool,‘ sized on the occa,ion. And the third claims were these of parties who had an interest iu ship , and eartmes that suffered in the war. The words of the minutes of that convection acknowledged the justice of the claim; advanced 1r ; the three classes; and in the years 1535 and 1836, the first two clas s es of claimants had their demands settled. In a year or two afterwards, the subject was again brought under the consideration of the G-verement and of the country, and the Government received triwards of 1,300,00111. in order to settle these elaime. Hut the Gnrern he states that the objections to these claims are of a financial clotraoter. They never, let me observe, rested on that. prin. elide. as the Hon. Member for Portsmouth had presumed, for whether these claims be, as they were now, for 500,0:0-. or t..100,000i., it is not the amount that we should • regard itt our decision, but it is the principle involved by coming to such a decision. The danger involved is not only the exornse we should incur, hut the expense we should expose ourselves to in r •spect of post wars, and our successors in respect of those wars core,. The qaestion mated in a great rner.ure oil rote: na tional hi t now hod down iR this House, by gentlemen of the ighest legal our hority ; and it alto rested on the opinion+ r f men who combated the formedi.lament on this imporraot goes. tte•n. Tee Solicitor-General had expressed his opinion against it in this House, when the question was legally diseuesed. and 1 have never yet heard any answer to his opinion. The, question does not rest otily on the opinion of those lion. and Learned Gentlemen who have lately given their opinions, but it rests on the authority of all ihose legal gentlemen wh o have taken pa t io previous deb ties in this Hons., when former el rims were aged. • Those gentlem e n all said that the claims :hat were then urged were only to he maintained where there was some eenviction or proof of any viol -,tion of the law of na tions; end ey reserved to themselves the point thsit the sir. comstaner on which this claim was founded. were of a totally (Wren...it eh tracer frotn those laid thaw,' in the category of those who m d the claims. Tnis was the argument of the Hon. Memb r o • Sheffield, when he said that these claims should be decided bs an exposition Of international law. These claims have been supperted by an Hon. GentkmaWformerly a Mem ber f Liven.° ‘lr Cres.well), and in his con-titueney were lame holies of Wilivoluals personallv interested in the question now before the House. Mr. Cresswall brought forward the que s tion, es ne considered hr had a duty to perform to hie eon . stituency. and that he should preserit to tip. House the (dream ' stan oes under which this ca-e arose, in order that it might have *the benefit of a discussion in the Home of Colimons. Great importance is attached to' the opini n of Mr. Justice Cres-wel, from his eminent legal a ; but it oug'et to be ho rn,. in mind that he represen , ed a large mercantile. hotly, ro•.ny of 'chose had an interest in the question.—( He ir, hear.) Whatever v due is attached to the opinion of that eintnect • lawyer, the Howe should weigh against it the fact that he acted in that matter as it. bee .me his ditty as a representative in Parli • meno—( He.ir, hear.) The /len. Gentleman who brought forward this quiotion lays great stress on the ground ilort this was a secret and tb. injury to which Vie merchants had been exposed in C0110(1111.11Ce of not bovine information so as to e cape the danger. On this point the i-louse stoiold coe.iiler the extte e hazard which wouA or , w on. or o viog io - ormation in ',eh ca-es. I have not heard any s -trod reao.n given w - la impen3ation should le riven in eas 5 of this k•n.l, and arising out of such circum stances. lis .ve heard nothing advanced to convince me of the ()Anion that the capture. fir which compensation is sought took Owe after the declaration of war. The declaration of war aoainst Denmark took place on he 16 hof August. 18417, a o d caotore was proved to have taken place subsioolent to that date. I have already refereed to this deelaration, and given its terms, and I nox aasert that it was issued on the ltith of August, and the captures were antecedent to that period. Rut it is said it w a secret expedition, arid, therefore, ; compensation should be given. I' you carry out that principle what will he the effect? I.* you eive compensation in the pie ' sent instaneo. you Are hounilta give it in every other case: went, altbou4h allowing the jus iee of thosv elatms, ,ftt.ed to enforce redress, althougi they held 1 r perty , ufficient to satisfy the claimants. In the year 1 , 339,-the subject wa , again bought before the House, and who brought it forward? It Giant the pr.iient claims. and whenever an enemy is attaeked under st,oilar circum-tances, whenever a se.cret expedi is fitted out, you will be hourrl by such a prece. 4.11 nt for every capture which is made at sea diving the progress of thtt war. Lei us see how the principle was brought forwarJ, not by an hwoble individual like my.eir, whose ()Pinions whatnr,r tivy might he, wou'd be scarcely worthy of recollection, but it was brought under ihe notice of the House by a most accomplishel laiii3er, who would not have done so until he had well considered the consequ , nces. He submitted these claims to the Hon.-, and the lions? again sanctioned their justice ; but the then Chancellor of !he Exchequer still delayrd....the settlement hf them. With the determination, howe , e, to ascertain their If , cal , t, a motion was mad:, for a Committee, which was carried. applies to other tva,s. See how it would apply to the fast war with the U..ted States. No notice was given then that our merchan. shipping was in danger, yet, ac,:ording to th's prineipl, , we sh. uld be hour, t to grant compensation for every clituro. Such a ground of compensation now sought would establish a principle appl.cabl , not oily to the Danish war, hot to all ether wars; and in all capture= of merchants ships arising out of - secret expeditions they would have motions made and claims advanced for comperoation. . In ever) partis The Committee met, a .o 1 th:v reported upon eular case the 'House would be called upon to m adv-anees the claims of these parties. To that repo r t.' hall shot tly call of money in order to eatis y the parties. it would be impos the attention of the H ouse . It s t a t e d t h a t th e Committee hid Bible for the country to gm into war aid defend its just lights proceeded to consider th e merits o f the s everal claims submit- without being subject '0 claims for da:naee done to private in ted to their consideration, and that they came to the following di e id us i s i n t h e result :—The claims amounted to half ►million, which was re. prosecution of such expeditions as that out of which had arisen the present claims. But here seems to be (Need to two hundred an t seventy-five thousand pounds Scotch. great doubt among Hon. Gentlemen who stupor! tk is modem This 'AIM of money w as obtained from th e sa l e of several ear- The Hon. Member for Lambeth supported the claim= of one goes which hail been seized and s--Id, anti which consisted of class, while the Hen. Baronet the Member f Huh suoported goods imported from the Baltic. In 1841, Mr• Jutsic t Cress- the claims of anoth e r cle f t. The !lon. Memher for Hull says, well move! and carried an address to the Crown that the 'plea- that no indemnity oueltt to be given in certain cases, because tion wou1•1 b.' speedily settled ; and had not Mr. Justice Cress- he has found out that an Order in Council was issued on the well been convinced of the legality of these claims. he would 2nd of September, I SO7, that no British ships should clear out no have ventured to have diked his professional reputation by foe Denmark because th e y would be liable to be ieiz el ueen insisting on them. I m ust s a y th a t thi s ea s e ou ght n o t to rest and confiscated by that Gevernm fnt ; and therefore argues the on strictly technical grounis. At the time tho-e ...Pismo's were lion. Baronet they have no realm for indemnity. What i s t h e made the Government were expos -d to considerahl • danger ; effect of teis disagreement? Wlay, out of the eighty-five afronn o it thought it necessary to fit out several secret expediri ns ; and who, according to the statement of my Right Hen. Frie s id those who were losers by them were, of couroe, thtee chiefly opposite have claim-, if the opinion ot the Honourable connected with the mercentite interest. And the ileu-e should B a ronet the Member for Hall is taken—( Hear, hear) —only never for,oet that prizes were made to the extent of 13 ww.. and 10 can have any claim at all. Titus we see that these learned that they never distributed more than Hee, half of them. doctors—learned in the doctrine of internatemal law —are Sir. lam most unwilling, therefore, to tout h upon that ques- divided to the extent, that while the one would adinit tlie tion. I rith sr wish to deal with it as a question of an en. rights r_f '45 claimants, the other volatile only giv • conil-ensation tirely personal nature. I think it ant one will take he trouble to 10. Can a strong et proof than this he requeed that the —if any one has tak •n the trouble to refer to all that ha- s ubject is not of that very clear character that it was repre tran.pired on this subject, it is qUito clear that these claims s -wet! by the Hon. Meniber for Lambeth to be? The Hon. are founded in justice, inasmuch as the public pilaw which Member f or Laiebeth has, I think, not very faith stated the induced the Governmtut to take the part which thes did in- opinions of L or d thhorp. as given in 1834 The report of volved the people coneetned in their losses. It is geite stn. 1834 states—es We are all aware that these claims are male possible fir me to say whether that policy was j tst or unjust.. fir the losses 'us, a ined on this occasion be the act of the But, suPposing that policy t o h e just. i t w. s perfectly imp's:- Danish Government. but we do no• t•oetheive that Parliament sible fin the Government to pretend to anything like jnstii e would be to admit the principle that such claims could when they gave pro public notification to 'he merchants of Mi. he entertained." As I have gated befere, I am very little country that they were ab o ut to enter u ?o n th e course which competent to arsue the legal point* as to what con tit utes the they took. The Admiral of the port rsceivei re) intimation lawful seieure of property. It tray aimear that there is no of that. policy, and the merchants took no 0 . h er precautio n s for valid reason why property on shore may not he captured as their safety than they would under ordinary eirr uinstances sell a , property at. sea. and why the homer should b.' safe aeainst sea risks. The trade i n the 13,lit e wa s considerert while ships and cargoes sheulii be expeset to seizere. Bii 1 safe. and they therefive entered into nnthino more than the believe no one wilt deny that such is the principle of interns. ordinary insurance nail's , sea risks. Sir, under these cir- 'hotel law.—( Heir, hear. ) They hsve respected pro ertv em curnatatices, when the British merehanta were not f •rewerried shere. ut never that on the sea. This pro. t sty, like a great by any ruble Act, or warned be any effie al notice, they deal of o her property, had undergone the chances of war. it have, I contend, a perfect right now to ask this House and la said that three were oily reprisals, and that they therefore the lioverament of this coutery to give their sanc o o n to 3 o t en e from tither ships. Now, what to the qusstion of repri- Committee of this House for inve.tigaiioe th o se claims. Sir, I gels? It is something of this kind. You lay your hoods on have eniteayouree to go as little over the whit!e ereund as whatever property you can legally take, in order to comp e l p o ssible ia subinittirig the case of the clattnants. You. will your enemy to accede to reasonable terra.—( Hear, hear. ) not, I will venture to say. refuse the Committee for which I Well, then, this property happens to consist of ships and mist ask. I hope that those Hen. Alembero who have aiteniled to chanilise. If the differences are settled, they are returned; this subject from year to ye sr will a:4in give the vote which if the !tsar goes on, why, they are s- , hl. Rut really, they did in favour of a Committee of Investigation. lam after the war has commenced there io no ais , notion as perfectly aware that the Goverment was plaeed in great difficulty to property captured after the deelaratioe of war and after by the opinions delivered by the law officers of the Crown. the eommencement of actual hostilities. All I wish to in- Bet I subints that this,ctiestion is not am a ter of law. It is a culcate on the House is the danger to which the country will mixed ease of law, eque y, justice.— (Cneers.) be exposed if they set a precedent that if they went tow,, Sir J. HAN tIER—I hold in my bawl a petition from the pith a foreign nation, some six and-thirty tears aft. r ley could town I have the 'honour to r Mresens.—(The Hon. Member be induced to compensate all who had -offered any ilierimiire. was proceeding with his speech, when the Sergeant-at-Arms St.,r e tng in every respect upon the tooting on whieh thee appeared at the bar, and ann• iunced, " That in obedience to earg•e s and ships were taken, I contend 'hat. you are out emitted the orders of the House, and in conformity vett, the warrant to a k the House of Commons for a Committee to inquire into of the Speaker, he had teker, the Honousable Wileam Smith these claims- Sir, I can assure the House that it is only lam O'Brien into custody.")—Tile Hon. Member recommenced by a sincere desire to avoid all the dengsrs which I see Meth tit saying, I boat in my h os t a petiti on teen the town to an acqeieaceoce in 'things of this kiroJ that I have on so I have the honour to represent, and in resent- mane occasions expressed my opinion on this-subeie. I have ing that petition I take the opportunity of es- Abstiiitied, as the Hon. Gentleman has dime, as much a' pits pressing in a few words the reason why I consider this question Bible, from repeating the arguments which I have used before should be speedily decided. Ido net think th a t it is at tigether with respect to this que-tion. I do not. rest, a= the Hon. quite a proper coestien for the c ,nsileration - of Parliament. I Gentleman does, upon' any technic-al grounds. It is upon a cannot say that I look with any considerable favour upon thi s c , n . great n frier-al principle, it is upon the bread reirciple vthich I tinned renewal of the (Mei' ion• and I 104 earnestly that justice have already stated, that if you once lay &wen this p - inciple should be done, and that afl decision upon the qui stion that yeas will protect all ships And e 2.1.40,3 during war, no i-nit shad be arrived A t—and that a c omplete. c l ear , and strong ex- can be placed .o suet claims hereafter. I , is on ihes, gt i.unds pression ot Parliament should be come to on the subject . I that. I must reriot the rwition of the li on . Al i min, opposit e am afraid that year after year we shall he going e n further and for a Committee to inquire into the nature of the Danish further from arriving at such a result. Arid now, to claims.—( Hear, hi ar. approach the merits of the question itself, it appears to me that Air. WATSON—I trust I shall be able to chow the House, they lie in a very narrow compass. In the case of the Danish on principles of public justice and national law, the justice of claims, all compensation for tho.e Danish claims has formerly these claims. 'f he Right Hon. Gentleman has said that been denied. At that time it was stated by the Honourable those who represent large commercial constituencies have a Member for Portsmouth, that the large and respectable betty peculiar mode of looking at the question of international law of individuals who had suffered upon the oecasion, mei who in this House. Will he allow me to make a retort that the now claimed compensation for their losses, had no right to Right lion. Gentlemen who have visited the ptirlieua of the come to Parliament, or be compensate,i by the Government. Treasury seem also to have a very extrtordinary view of the 1 1 I think that Government had chosen properly to compensate public policy and the public justice of international law.— two classes of toe Danish claimants. They were those claim- ( Hear, hear, and lauehter.) Now, Sir, let us see first of all ants who could not be supposed to withdraw easily, and at a what the fads are in 'his case, and the grounds on which this short tie time, front the port of Danmark during the war ; claim must succeed These cargoes and ships were taken who owne4 good debts in the town of Copenhagen, or pos- before any declaration of war whatsoever. —( Cries of -eased 'argues and valuable goods in tlte warehouses of Den- " Ileac, hear.") This country having ascertained plat. mark, were possibly pr even t e d f rom setting sale as"' with their ships, a arty was about to seial - the Danish fleet, sesit and gettMg out of the reach ot th ose w h o w i s h e d to obtain out a fleet und er sealed orders and perfect secrely, so p..ssessinta of them. was the argument used by the that not a ' merchant . of this country scold know then SoliOtoreGenerel. However, 1,10 no t thi n k th a t we can where that flet:t insre sW Is. The relations b. t sveen Denmark and sustain that opinion altogether, but I think if an embargo England continued ; the msrchatits continued in their inter was laid upon these ships before any officisl public notiee was course with the Baltic. They continued in their intercourse given to merchants in thiscountry, that th e Danish with Denmark all the time. The fleet werit to the Baltie, anii Government wished British shins to leave their bar- on the Admiral being asked whether or not they might safely hour—if no intimation was given that the state of trade in the Baltic, he distinctly com h iuunicatvii to the mer the repaid ins of Denmark with this countrwere th e i b s eut to he chants that they might h do t so ; — rou ( h t , l i ea o r t , hear. Well, i e s ll t , h Sir, that disturbed. —I do think—and Ido not advance e ion hying a because lam Member for Hull—that such claimants have 8( 1. ) ; attem p ted as k t ° e i d i to w be, re " sistei? not i be ou t r t p h u e b " fit reason to be comp mated f o r the hotel which they sus- claims to encourage the m-rehants in carrying on their tarred the proceeding, 11 it fair notice was given to them trade? I sa s s that by our national law they are clearly entitled to set sail tor another harbetue I would not so strongly insist to those claims. But what was the declaration that was made on their right to receive compensation ; but if no official no- to the Admiral when they eniered the Baltic? They said, Vice was afforded before the 2nd of Feb., 1807, those persons "We come to your shores as inhabitants of Zetland, riot as have a right to be considered as not having started upon a ear rnies--; this, I believe, was dated August, and I hare not the vague expedition against which there was nit impediment, exact date)—not as enemies, but in self-defence, en 4 to prevent and the unfortunate termination whieh was beyond their those who are so wilting to destroy Eu. ope from doing so," conception ; then. I think, they are entitled to that comp n- "We come not as enemies," and yet the Right sation. Now, Lord Sidmoudt, on the 17th of Obey, 1803, on Hontiursble Gentleman has said they are not entitled which occasion a similar motion to that now before the House, by intet national law to make these —( Hear, hear. ) was tfiscu,s d, said, " Such a n..tiste was payee in the Ci.urt War was declared on the 4th of November. The Danish am oi Denmark, on the 2nd of September, and a similar order ba.sader dem-witted his poop arts on the 16th November. It was afterwards issued by his Alajeey's Government in Council, has been etre:, t• dto say that the declaration of war took place that no ships heiotiging to his Majesty's subjects should clear on ihe 14th Aueust, in the declaration of Croestadt. In the out for tee port of De nm ar .as a general embargo was in- case of a declaration of war beiween two ceuntries, the in tended to be laid on them." Now, if that notice was issue I habitants of each country would have warnlng not to trade with ,in this country on the 2nd of Sepiernber, anti ships sailed each other ; if' they were to do so, they would then be guilty of afterward', then, I think, they are not entitled to the a breech of the law of their couetry. sari vessels going to Den compensation sought. The opinien of Lord Selineuth, in mark might be ju-tly cal/tune' by English vessels, an the ground which I agree, is very favourable to the corneenaation of that th 'v were attempting, to trade with an enemy. or. the those who incurred losses, He said. on the subjeet of cempen- 7th of August , it was declared by th e B-ittsh Envo y that war _ sation, there cieild not be 'the 'stnalie.t diffeenee of opinion. was 'lain the point of commencing between thet. , o c.inntries, Unforf ffe unasely, there was a d:reeee of ups stun, which had and at the same time demanded his passport, the ground that exited up tolhe present time, sni t tied , elued the settl em e n t war b e tw ee n the two countries mi g ht be considered as having of the question fir these several years, acid Lard Sidmouth already broken out. It lesbi en said by Hon. Members oppo• had been Chancellor of the Exchegiter, concluded recce this was a declaration o e f war het decision ace with site thatwen', the two vein i h of Lord Stow e ll, reprisals, ari d other countries, and was abl e and competent to give an opinion tries. will prove, by t on the matter Now, Sir, I h ave stated the enly arguments on that this was a declaration "nd in of . n the declar a ti on which 1 intend to rest. I say that I fi n d on th e 2il of Septem- net s declaration of war ; a ber an order was issued by his Alajests's Government; after issued by `he Danish Government, the folk:wing w or d s which no person had a right t o cointrensat i on . Now, I think occurred : We merely call upon our fmtheal subjects to the issuing of that order vc , s a staifi e ient pioof that the mer - un , stms to defend themselves and their property, and t o chants had no right to clear out of Vie Desist, por t s before that ward ir this violent attark ;" and this document further states time. I beg leave ' ; that an embargo would be lard upon fertien vessels. N ow t h at On the gnestien being put,. point has been decided by Lord Stowell, in the Admiralty, u Sir, to second the motion. The CH A NCELLO it of the EXCHEQUER rose and said the case of the s , Orioe. ' 'lles ease was, whether the rapt art' I can assure the House, sir, that it is ver y patteul to me to was the right o f the Crown or the Adrnir lt to He thesaid, y' have again to repeat tholes opinions and those sentiments which if the capture was melts before the declaration of war. i t was cr,,w tthia t I have se often had occasion to a ddress to the House on this the right of the Admiralty, but it reverted part i cu l ar s ubjimt ; sometimes when sitting on this Side of the taken a fter the declaration. The capture was. therefore, t h e House, an d sometimes when bitting on the other. But; Sir, I right of the Crown , in asmuch as there was ti eclaratio n o f have hail from these repeated diseussiens full opportunities ot war until the 4th November. The Chancellor of the Exche hearing all that can be urged on this particular subject, having quer comes down to the Houses and says we must resi s t t h ese had various opportunities of considerati , n and reflection ; a n d claims, because the Hon. Members for Lembetb, anti H u ll , 1 adhere to the opinion which I have always expressed upon may entertain, some little difference of opinion upon the tine subject, that it is one in which it is not consistent with subject. The real question is, when was war declared? It public policy for the House to interfere, arid that it is one in has been stated by some Hoe Members, that there is great which it is not consistent with the duty of him to whom her danger if we compensate these Danish claimants we shall a l so Majesty haa entrusted the finances of this country to acquiesce. have to compensate the French and other claimants for losses Sir, I believe al so , very s t rong ly, th a t it i s a mai ter of great which they may have sustained in a war with Ergland. A delicacy on the part of th House of Cotutnons, in dealing with little reflection will tell those Hon. Gentlemen that such could a question of this kind in the manner in which the Hon, not be the case, because after a dsclaiation of war is made the Gentleman proposes to deal with it. A rule was most wisely prises are the prizes of war. Such prizes are not entitled to laid down by the constitution, that the House cf Commons compensation when the war has broken out, for everybody should not take upon itself, indenendently of the Crown, to knows the situation in which they were placed, every ship ca p e originate any grant of money, and this rule was expressly laid tured by the Danish and French are not entitled to compensa down to guard against the possibility of parties being urged, tion. Now let me look at the justice of the case. The Chan ra•her by persons who had a direct interest, to come to a vote I cello,. of the Exchequer has thrown some impediment in the of public money. which a consideration of the general interests 1 way of this matter. tie says it is not respectful to the Crown ot the country did not authorise, and 'he House, therefore, —that it is a question that reflects on the Ministers. In 183 l e imposed the check in that respect. But it will place the the. Hon. Member for Shoffield brought the matter forward, Crown in that most inconvenient position of having, instead of i and again in 1837 aryl in 1838. In 1841, the Com as usual, to originate such a grant, to refuse it when recommend.• mons voted that in justice the compensation sought ed by a Committee of this Mao,. I think that it is a most in- for should be given to the parties, but, however, convenient position in which to place the Crown on an oc- it was rot acceded to, .and now the Right Hon. Gen casion, where grave legal doubts as to the claims exist, and where tleman wishes to- - t vast distinction with respect to the question of how far the right of the House to interfere is f the rights of tb' d jays it is not respectful for us involved, to call upon it to make any grant upon sech a mae ter, l to address the nay, it is a t sag. poet respect. Tie' I lon. min immmen eel tits s ieech by seating teat ful 'or us re upon 'he rabic t when justice these viitirns sere refused on r it special grounds—one to these can be 0- or, up to ties time, no jut, tee ground, being financial, and the other being founded on inter- has be , The Treasury at this moment national law. Ido not agree with the Lion. Gentleman, when ' has inch were paid by the Danish Government nn account of these claimants ; and, therefore, it was ;imply a debt due from the Treasury to the persons 50 claimieg. But perhaps the Chancellor of the Exchequer dote not wish to part with the money from the c, ffers of the Trea sury. Now. Sir, with re=peat to the other poiet—the question of international law. Ido not boast myself of a very perfect knowledge of the law, but I -have looked at the °pinkies of those lawyer, who have considered the question, and they have come to the conrethion that the parties are entitled to the consprnsetion which they seek, as the capture of their ships wail not a capture in war. There is not a better !awyer than Mr.. Justice Cresswell. and ill is not at all likely that he would corn. promise his legal knowledge on this !object Lecause he wall the Member for Liverpool.—(Hear, hear.) But there are two great parties whem I have not the honour to see in their places at this moment-.-I mean the Attorney and Solicitor General.—because, if I have stated anything erroneous in point of law, they would no doubt have collected me.--(Cries of " Why are they not here?") I will tell you why they are not here. Both the. Attorney and the Selicitor Generals voted for this m tion on a previous occasion, but have I not. the opinions of Mr. Justice Cresseell, one of the most acute and just: lawyers in England? I say it is not likely that he weuln warp his legt'l judgment on the matter ; and if the Attorney-General or Solicitor-General were here I at o sure they w old net dispute the law. teeeuee they have voted fer the motion. The Hon. Member for Worcester (sir T. ' Wilde, who voted against the melon) challenged Mr. Justice Crrssw. 11 to pro,luce any authorities in flavour of his view, and on ,he next nietit, the lOth of June, he did produce two au thorities, and said, in the course of his address, " I have been clean-need that there is no autherity on the subject ;" and he then read an extract tram Vattel, which stated. " those who hAv,b; reprisals lost their property, are b iund to get compen sation for their hisses." In Grieue' Special Jury Cases it is stated, " it- is the duty of the state to Rive compensation to those on whom reprisals have fallen. He say s, " But hef re she declares war"—l now beg the at 'tuition of the House to this—'t Before she declares war, of which we shall treat—ira the f !lowing book al there are various methods practiced e yi :yeg nations " He says, "He seizes on some property if he,. an opportunity, and declares it seized until tie has give:, lei* sufficient satisfaction." Then he says, Ile takes possesslon of what belongs to a either and keep it utit•l payment ;or he detains it as a pledge." Then be sari " The effects seized upon are preserved while there is any hope ot obtaining satis action or justice, but so soen as that hope ii. ppeirs they are confiscated, and the le priaaie are then complete." Now ran any lung be more clean than that? For the purpose of satistaction they seize, arid when all hope of satisfaction disappears the reprisals are complete and the geo( l6 are disposed of. " Thu Is the lest remaining effort previous to the c numeneement of open hostilities ; then, indeed. is the Sovereign to compensate his subject on whom repriaals shall have fallen " I say that Pelliatnent and the monarch of Great Britain ought to conipensete those en whom rep• isals fell by the Danish trarisaecion4 of 18 1 .7. 't. It is th e duty of this state or the nation to make this t!oo,l, litteau, each eit , zen ought only to pay his tiunt I." The Honourable Gentle. man the Seeretary fir the Treasury is well versed in law, arid perhaps he will point nut how, seeing *hat vier was me declared until the 4 h of November, the s IZU es were captures of war, and not merely reprisals.. There wis a .nest extraordinary argument used here on a fan nor ()erasion. upon the de: ision of Lied Stowell upon the seizure of priperty in Demerara, and the elaili that was made by persons, calling themselves British subject., fur restitution of their property. - -These individuals were first British sub jecte, then Dutch suhj res. and afterwards British subjects again; and Lord Stowell ileeteed that, as the parties were Dutch subjects at the time o' the seizure, they had no loos stand' in the ceurts of law of his country, to iileain restitution... Lord Stowell said that the question mainly depended on w hither the property was taken before or after the declaration of war. N. Sir, I say that this question originate oil the ground of public pulley, public justice, and international law ; and whether this was merely a reprisal, where the persons in juied were entitled to compensation, on the part of thous_ who had caused the inquiry. lam sorry I have tr o ubled the House so long on the s.uhji ct, but it appears to me that justice rcqeires that the law should be justly and fairly put in practice on this occasion. Mr. CARDWELL—On no occasion should I have pree surned to enter the hart with my Hen. Friend opposite, for the purpose of attempthig to sancta to an argument of a legal cha racter; but on the ere sent ecca,iori I shall not shrink from the task, and I will endeavour to give a legal argument, which fne the first time since the cemmencen.ent of this diseussions has ever been submitted to the Heuse. It will appear remark able to those not familiar prefetaianally with legal aubjeet4,t ha t ith all the acumen of Sir James Alackintosh, rind alt ; he Crown Lawyers that then hi Id office ueder her Uajesiy, it has been reserved for to-night to brine forward a legal argument againit • the subject on which 1 feel it my duty now to speak. For the . sake of the parties who sustained Herat. strong from the expedition to Copenhagen in ISA', this case was ratted by .ur James Mackintosh, and he stated that if any portion of those goods e ere taken by Denmark in centraven tbm of the establisheit lain of 'wines, it became our imperial duty to vinilteate that Lew en the part of the suljeets who were injured; an if tor airy reason whatever ne felled in ditehur Mg that • ut,, it became our duty to compensate the subjects who sta., ed by our rowing to discharge that duty. This was when the Danish claims were first raised. and Sir James Mac kititesh and these who were etigagett with him in their former Atteurptt, took care to have nothing to do with the Fart of the claims now the subject of diseussien. The, felt that it was necessary, resting on that greund, carefully to eistinguith between those eitims which advocated coulee° . satire' for pro ; erry in shere. and bake, deb's, and tho s e clairni en trehaS of Fsh •es acid reit, becaute they felt that in such 11 , positi o n th e r e wa one rt ply which coal be made, it ships; an.' cargoes were ackn••wledgeir to stand tin the tam? tooting at the property oft shore. Wt y , id the Hon. Gentleman opposite osek to bring that case w thi the law of nazi tlas, when the re al ground on a hieh it rested was we e th er th e reprisals were man ° before or after the declaration or war? What. follows has re latien to the subject of reprisals. The Hon. Gentleman ba t ' g ree e e e e his eriseiiin on a point of law, on which it is never nary that the legal argument should he clearly understood 11 1 etch of us. The meseing of the words reprisals and capture° vie tr rot to be used in the ordinary and popular 'elite, but ill as • and legal eine,. Now, the Hee. Nlienber had taken th!, ry arid e tiler mea t n ne of ere, isalt. and continued e, :Loy ene h gall, as the female ion of Iris areu•nent. He hat laid down tht;di•unvtiott in the eeurte of hi s addre St a" - “1/ that censtructem entire. ds, teat if captures took place b e. I ire the declarari in of war, the, are to be censitiered repriee% and cote, esatee 4 ith giant def slice to the Hon. 6' nil nein I ust eay, Ido cot aeree with him in his I g al define' ; arid tia that gro nd consider they are not entitled to coirrpensarion. Reprisalt between nation and nation are al owed in order to en the them to do justice to each other j iir matters where they' consider themselves itiggrreved, when they have n r other means at redressing themselves. a nation re totes rel° justice to another, then the latter, accord ins to tire law of ea' iotet, Hight seize the .hips of the fouler' and keep them eri pledge till justice is done them ; or if thl fail to de so, then the capturing parts mr) keep the ships ite, property s eized, arid dee' :re them to ceetisca•cd.—( Heart/ Iran open rut ore in e ns pence take' place, and war ewe' : then are th j ifie at ireee in t er e fi tea r . g all h at has bee', itrevieusly siezed. Tnt. ts the distinction between reproo ° and captures. Thu •. if a capture takes plane, and no w arfar e arises between the countries in conseqee c•-. then it the G P ; verninew hound to !aka the claim of the injured parties twee consider a t her, and to gran t c i mpensat i on. — ( C r i e s 1 ' Hear, hear.) But wh e n a r e e l rat i ou o f war ta l , 0 plates, the retro-activ e e tl ec is, that canta t a_ fall under the orthnary, rules of wa , and are not entitled compeleation. The Hon. Gentleman says there was no de' claration of war; but it has been read this evereng, and is di r tinet enough. It declares on the vart of the D a ni s h Goselli m upon int that war is actu a il a b ro k e out , ai d ca ll s a ll faith ( °i subjects to come forwa r e arel take such steps as are best , w lated t o re p e l h ost i le attacks. Ths declaration of war is °l4 l, Ciotti'. enough, wh a t ever may have been the acts of Denials'', before the period ef its beteg issued ; and this declaration v"" issued on the Nth of Aueust, 18117. Well, but the Member says that the fira declaration of war on the part England was made on the 4th or Neveerber, leo7 ; and be ret I think, my Hon, anti Learned Friend has conf •uuded two c ir :, cutnttanees. A declar a ti on o f war, accorritne to the prac';'" of this country, i s an act hastility, anal believe that no " e c i claration of war, according to the tense of my Hon. ° ha Learned Friend, had been i ssue d a t th e very t i me w het, e il t was on his way to take part in the battle of Waterloo. ' was the object contemplated by the erochimation of 'the 4th a ? November, to which the Hon. Member has made reterent , i e or " That was not a proclamation of war, b u t a p roc l ama tion e i l d the distribution of prizes ; and b e f ore suc h p roc l ama tion 4 been issued such prizes became ['rotes to the Admiralty' " l ea were carried to account of the Coesolidated Fund. • As bet° . England, therefore, and Denmark, the bombardm nt of Cel le :, hirgen was the declaration of war; as between the Govere, m n e of F:nglaill and the captors of p r iz es . I b e li eve that : e t ' them only had the proclamation of the 4th of Novelly,' reference; and I am astonished that my Hoenurable an.ll 'Learned Friend should have read a j u d gmen t o f L or d St°° e oe in support of his position. Wh a t thi s I S , i s a simple etv'tite) between the Government of Great Britain and i , s sulks d, net between the Governments of England and Denmark. !P oe therefore. not bearing on th ere D an i s h claimants. I do not kl' oe whether I have succeeded in fixi ng th e a t tent i on o f t he He o to the core:ll39ton I would s ee k t o es t a bl is h. I conse ter: b my Hon. and Learned F r iend h a s, i n some d egree , 0 00 ,... w a t the question as between the Impe r i a l G overnment of Gr id Britain Britain and the subjects of (hen B ri t a i n ma ki ng cap tureet. , the Governments of Great Britain an d o f Denmark. °blab think, is the complete answer to th e l ega l argun • e ntt %l ve l me Hon. and Learned Friend has for the first time sub' of to the House; an argument wetter has eseaoed the atteutiontic, Sir James Mackintosh, which has n o t cou . e un d e r the lie d by of Mr. Justice Crestwell, and whi c h h as no t b een observf te r any of the Host. Members who have introduced this 0 0 6 4 before the House. Having taken up PO much trine in rebu t te r this argument. I will proc rni ; in d d.,fi ve tt r h ishortly to notice the r ,) argurneuts of my Hon. and Lea ned Friend.—( Hear, b e e t l e illy fieneuratee Friend says, that gentlemen taken n - a a r i i i d ec L u , l peculiar Learned d ie it i r e:" t n h e i c s t q ed up, w tin it n h . I th: ,,,u 6 id ov r e e • her, ilea Lord Althorp had the subjere under his cent! e ar tion. These claims were breught forward for the first to ( Cries of " Nit, no.") Those who had other Oster te l -vance were too p ru( l etit to embarrass themselves with t":0' —( Hear, hear. ) Th erefore 'hit was the first time the, jest was introduced. Lord Campbell and the Alarle t ' otet Wercatter did advi se th e Government what course t" pt' and the Government had not been influenced in the die 'bet natien which they carne to by any otht r c on sul era tiona, t he those of public policy.—( Hear, hear. ) N ow , Sir. I thittelt be Hen. Gentleman will admit that, if h is p o i n t o f law 001 ° ,115 sustained, h e h as no groun d to re l y upon i n regard terieo priori ; lea of general public poli c y. I think my Hon. si tu mutt see the vicious precedent which he is about so eet s ' or l od the law of nat i ons i s es t a bli s h e d f or use f u l purptseet se r i principl es w hi c h -h ou ld no t, an d oug h t not, to bed ePslitt from.—( Hear, hear.) Observe the precedent you S i l e „ s rd to set with regar d t o f u t ure wars . B u t i s i t on ly in I '7' feet' tut ut•e wars? Why, these claites are more tbau thirtl old.—( Hear. hear Mr. HUTT— O r.) h, no, by no means; they were toote e before the Treasury five-and-twenty years ago. t hef°Z Mr. HAWES—They wer e nev e r b e f ore Parlianlet' sf or Mr. CARDWELL—It was not until thirty year s , l e Danish expedition that these claims were brought. t bey tr Mr. HUTT—The Han. Gentleman is mistaken , brought before the Treasury. a °lf Mr. CARDWIeLL—I believe I am stating a foe ne oe. _ 4 S persons who had substantial c l a im s u p on t h e Geverl ie pre' - 0 thought of embarrassirig the ease by bringin4 tri c alla t er one, and it was not until thirty years a fter that e t, oe. brought under the notice cf Parliament. And* se that length of time, when the law was against 3i°° , -- ,: e e fee . Mr. WATSON—No, no, the law is not againt..' the jtteent Mr. CARDWELL—You are prepared to gre nt he pree t ;_ 0 1 • of the claim in any individual cases o f the kind, L it I kef e 0 0 that you set does not apply only to future wars ''"" era ett7 t es° no ground of justice, of policy, or of national w r o , ttl . e be df wnich you can refuse to deny in the case of. an Y w hich 0 0 1 .0 6 : $ occurred in the histery of this ceuntry, can bring evidence that has the semblairce of _t I ' llo ll4 Hoe; u pon co in s io, of a similar claim. Sir, having, therefore, a' t di t t o d o le satisfactorily answered the novel argurnra e ° ee rooeu ee eet,, Gentleman, which is placed entirely upon 11 . °_ wo reS t tb: o tinction, and having cursorily gone over t he e It o arguments of the Hon. Gentleman who "the H o us er IP Committee and has brought the matter before of resist' to hope that the Home will see the necessity cca' i(l er Hon. Meieheria motion. this " rt l Mr. HUel V, —Sir, it is no' n . c owry woe: c e p enter, a.er the debate that has now• taken ittee',„ n y gl_ ee plv l only ars afterwails, t te a t t a th il t e t r h u a i t s haaovekh;=enta...e. y preCeet•