The Sun. — London, England, 1837-06-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, JuNE 9. The LORD CHANCELLOR teak his scat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock. The Earl of HARE WOOD presented a petition from Thirsk in favour of the Great North Railway. _ _ Mr. POTTER and other Members of the House of Com mons brought up the Welland Enclosure Bill and several other private Bills. Lord DEVON presented a petition in favour of the Lord's Day Bill. Several private Bills on the table were advanced a stage. The Duke of RICHMOND moved for a return of the amount received by the extra halfpenny charged in postage in Scotlan 1 ; also for a Return of the amount of tolls paid by mail-co aches there since the imposition of those charges. JUDGES OPINIONS BILL. Lord DEVON moved the second reading- of this Bill. The Duke of RICHMOND asked whether it was not the law now that Quarter Sessions could ask the opinion of the Judges. Lord DEVON said that application must first be made to the Secretary of State. After a short conversation the Bill was postponed ti‘ Tuesday. IRISH MUNICIPAL BILL. Viscount MELBOURNE moved the Order of the Day for going into Committee on this Bill. _ _ Lord - LYN DHU Rs'T said he had not been in the House when this Bill was last under consideration ; but he would take that opportunity of saying that he agreed in the course pursued by their Lordships in respect to it. It appeared to him also that consistently with them selves, and, acting as they ought, they could not pursue any other course except a further prolongation of the considera tion of the Bill. On the former occasion the Noble Duke moved to postpone the committal of the Bill, in order to afford an opportunity for two other Bills which were before the other House to come before their Lordships.—( Hear.) It was certainly supposed that, when they came before them, means would be found, from the mate rials of which they were formed, of such a character as would deprive this measure of some portion of what was objectionable in it. Accordingly, the committal of it was postponed to tae present day. That had been done on the assumption of the fact that the two Bills in ques tion would be now in their Lordships' House. It appeared, however, that in this the Noble Duke was mistaken ; for the second reading of one of them was appointed for this day. The Noble Marquis opposite had told their Lordships, he (Lord L.) understood, that this was purely accidental, and alive from the necessity resulting from the state of business in the other House. He (Lord L.) was quite willing to as sume this to be the fact, he was bound to believe it to be so —and if so, and if that circumstance could have been anti cipated by the Noble Duke, it would follow as a matter of course, that instead of fixing the 9th of June for the com mittal of the Bill, he would have moved that it should be taken on a more distant day.—(Hear, hear, hear.) How then could it be consistent with their former pro ceedings, if he pursued any other course than to move that the Committee be further postponed, in order to carry out those views which they had formerly expressed ? It seemed, then, that they had but one course to pursue— that was, a further prolongation of the time for the com mittal of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) It was opposed by many Noble Lords on the opposite side of the House, and was said to be equivalent to the re jection of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) It was clear that his Majesty's Ministers did not consider it so, because they had pledge.] themselves that they would deprive the country of their service and assistance in such a case ; the postponement of the Bill had not led to such a calamity— (A. laugh)—therefore he premised that the postponement was not taken as a rejection by the Ministry. He was not disposed to refer to the arguments which had been used during the last Session, but he might be permitted to say that he still retained the opinions which he had then given utterance to. He considered that the best and safest course for the tranquillity of Ireland was to pursue the same measures which had been adopted by the House last year. He was contented to give up his own opinion and his own feelings, because he was most anxi ously desirous that this question should be settled ; because he was convinced that in matters of legislation it was safest not only to do that which was best, but also to give up some part of their own feelings, in order that the legislation should be satisfactory to the country. If he were satisfied that the Bill were so moulded and framed as that it might pass into a law, consistently with the tranquillity of Ireland—con sistent with the safety of the Protestant Establishment and Protestant interests—then he would be most desirous that it should pass into a law, but he agreed with what had fallen from the Noble Duke (Wellington) on a former occasion that unless it could be so formed— unless it could be so moulded as to give safety to the Protes tant establishments of the country, no consideration on earth should induce them to pass it. He was firmly of opi nion, that upon the tranquillity of Ireland founded upon Protestant principles, depended the perma nancy of the union of the empire. It was not his intention to go into the details of the measure. He would merely glance at them in passing ; and first, he would call on their Lordships to look to the qualification which was to be settled by the Bill. By looking at that clause their Lordships would be convinced the vvliole scope of the Bill was to hand over the corporations of Ireland to the Roman Ca tholics. The corporations of Ireland were now exclusive ; they were now exclusively Protestant, but it was to be borne in mind that theywere now in the same state, and acting for the same purposes for which they were established—namely, the support of the Protestant Establishment of that coun try.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Considering the changes that had taken place in the manners and customs since those early days, he was willing yet to go so far as the measure of last Session ; but by the Bill before the House, it was pro posed that the corporations should be exclusively Catholic, and be placed under the dominion of the agitators of that country. That was the immediate object and the avowed one. The further object was one which was kept steadily in view, viz., the destruction of the Protestant establish ments, and he could not help thinking that the Ministry shared in the feeling which he had stated. Observing the language which they held with respect to Ireland, he felt bound to think so, and it was quite natural, because they looked towards the support of that party in Ireland for their own continuance in power.—<Cheers.) .If he had wished for a striking and convincing illustration of what he had put forth, it would be the conduct of the Government with respect to Ireland. Neither the history of this country, or of any other civilized one, ever showed an establishment such as Ireland now contained. The Association was composed of men from all parts of Ireland,' to a very great extent of the priesthood.— (Cheers.) It was in direct communication with the whole of the Catholic priesthood of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) In every parish it had its agents under the name of pacificators.—(Cheers.) It assumed to itself the powers of levying money, voluntarily it was stated ; but in many known cases it was forced.—(Cheers.) They took upon themselves to superintend the registration.—(Conti.. nued cheering.) They also overawe the elections, and in many instances even the Government itself.—(Loud cheers.) The principles upon which it was established were avowedly the overthrow of the Established Church.— (Cheers.) They declared that they would never dissolve their body until they had attained their object, or in the event of its being lost, until they had obtained the Repeal of ti►e Uhion.—(Continued cheering.) What step had the Government taken with respect to that Asso ciation ? They had never taken any step for the purpose of dissolving it. So far from making any attempt to abate the nuisance, they had directly supported it, by appoint ing its members to the Magistracy as Assistant-Bar risters, even though one of the avowed objects of the Society was to overawe the decisions of that House. Nay, more, one of the objects of the Association being the superintendence of the registry, they had selected from it persons whose duty it would he to preside over the registry of freeholders—nay, more (to show the manner in which they had countenanced that Association), they had se lected one of the most influential members of the body, and who was employed in the original formation of its regu lations, for the most private and confidential oiiiee with which any one could be entrusted under the Government of Ireland—an office in which: he might be callsd upon to pass judgment upon the pi ocaedings of that Association. They had done nothing to discountenance it, but every thing to encourage and uphold it.—( Hear.) In stating that, he wished to draw the attention of their Lordships to the conduct of the Irish Government i❑ reference to another as sociation of a widely different ❑ature. He (Lord L.) never had approved of the manner in which the Orange Societies were organized—there was a defect in their constitution, but they were assembled for the purpose of supporting the in stitutions as by law established, and above all, for the pro tection of the Protestant Establishment and .the Pro testant religion in Ireland. The moment his Ma jesty had intimated his desire that they should put an end to their Association, then by a voluntary act they had dissolved themselves—( Hear, hear, from the Duke of Cumberland.) But what was the conduct of the Government with respect to that body? They had laid it down as a rule that no member of that Society should be appointed to any official situation, and they had carried that into effect in the most important points ; and they were prevented from entering the police, as was embodied in an Act of Parliament which had passed that House in the last Session. Was he not warranted then in the statement with which he set out, that the increase in the Catholic religion was not viewed with distaste by the Noble Viscount opposite? He did not say that was not natural—it was a formidable was for a time exercised in favour and support !rnment, and therefore he did not mean to say natural, they should look to an Association of engine. It v Ewc _. , i qf Gove it ot Ri • , - • / that kind, having those objects in view ; but at the same time, supporting the Government with as fa vourable an eye as possible.—( Hear, hear.) But in what situation did the Ministers of this country stand? Had the Ministers of this country ever stood in such a position in any former period of our history ? To whom did they look for support ? They looked for support to the enemies of the Protestant Establishment in Ireland ; they relied for support on those who were the declared enemies of the Protestant Church in England. —(Cheers.) Their main stay and support were the politi cal dissenters. Deprive them of the aid and support of one or the other of those bodies, and what would become of them ?—(Cheers.) The Government felt their power would then be gone, and that they would no longer have the power of supporting themselves ; and he repeated that this was the first timst in the his. tory of our country, that the Government of this country depended for its exclusive support on the declared enemies of the Protestant Church.—(Cheers.) Where was this to stop ? Concession led to still further concession, ac cording to the general course of events. Give them a part of the spoil of the Church ; assist them in the op pression of the Church up to a certain point ; and you encouraged them to further demands. Where would the Noble Viscount stop in his recklps career ?—( Hear, hear.) What were they told by certain individuals ? Why, that they only received what was offered them in part payment of what they demanded—( Hear)—that they would receive it as an instalment of their just, demands— and that they would never cease agitating, that they would never cease convulsing the empire, until they had attained the whole of the objects they had in view. They were told that in order to tranquillize Ireland, they must concede the demands of those who agitated it ; and if they were not contented then, that they should go on con ceding till they were satisfied—they were told this by one of the Ministers of the Crown, not the least able member of the Cabinet to which he belonged. What were those demands now ? The prostration of the Church of Ire land, and the next would be the repeal of the Union.— ( Hear, hear.) He had formerly stated that nothing could induce him to acquiLsce in passing the Bill as it stood ; and when he saw that the qualification for electors was a 51. qualification, he was not so insensible to what was passing, as not to know this was HO qualification at all. What was the cry ? Justice for Ireland, and the demand to place her institutions on the same footing as those of Scotland, and yet in the latter country the qualification in the smallest town was one of 10/.—the qualification alone then would induce him never to agree to the Bill. Then there was this inconsistency in the Bill. Last Session an Act had been passed which took from the magistracy in Ireland the ap pointment of police-constables, and transferred it to the Lord-Lieutenant, and vet this measure gave the appoint ment of the constables to the Town-councils ; and the jurisdiction of these was extended all over the counties in which the boroughs were, and in some instances beyond them.—( Hear.) Another objection he entertained to the measure was the extraordinary patronage it created, and the fact that their salaries were paid in amount at the discretion of the Councils, who were also to have the power of levying rates to any extent to maintain their own power. Thus, agitators would exist throughout Ireland, combining and corresponding with each other, which would form these Corporations into formidable instrument; for carrying out the designs of the patrons of the Bill.— (Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Viscount had been sometimes in the habit of philosophising in his observa tions, and had said more than once that bodies aiming at more than legitimate power brought upon themselves contempt. This might be the case in England, but not in Ireland. The Noble Lord then quoted the observations of Mr. O'Connell, to the effect that if the Ministerial Bill were passed, he would be responsible for every thing else. This was evidence of what would be the result of such a measure passing into a law.—( Hear, hear.) It had been stated that the criminal law would be much more efficiently carried into effect after the passing of the English Municipal Bill ; but as regarded Bristol, the con sequence had been that every criminal was now carried a a distance of 30 miles at a great additional expense to the country for the purpose of being tried before the Judge of Assize, instead of as formerly before the Recorder of Bristol. The Noble and Learned Lord here alluded by name to the distinguished individuals who had formerly filled the office of Recorder of Bristol. The Noble Viscount had again stated that this Act would put an end to party feuds and dissensions in England ; but he held in his hand documents which had been trans mitted to him from various places, directly at variance with these statements of the Noble Viscount. The Noble and Learned Lord read extracts from the documents to which he had referred, for the purpose of bearing out his state ments. It had been said that the people of Ireland desired the extension of municipal institutions to that country, and it was for the purpose ofendeavourina• to carry these wishes int o effect that lie now a s k e d f or a further extension of time. By that time the Irish Church Bill, at present under dis cussion in the other House, would perhaps have been sent up to their Lordships, and that being once satisfactorily settled, one of the greatest obstacles to the passing of the present measure would be removed. He would therefore conclude by moving, as an amendment, to strike out the word " now," for the purpose of substituting " the 3d of July ;" and if it could be, satisfactorily shown to him that the Bill would be sent up at an earlier day, he should have no objection to alter his amendment. Viscount MELBOURNE—Judging from the com mencement of the Noble and Learned Lord's speech, though I WWI well aware he was going to make the motion with which he concluded, yet I must own that, judging from the commencement of the Learned Lord's speech, I did hope that, on the general subject at least, he was about to adopt a calm, cool, and dispassionate tone ; that he was about to adopt a tone which would not be, altogether, otherwise than conciliatory ; a tone exhibiting that fair and proper feeling to which I beg to declare myself not at all insensible. I am sorry to say that my hope has been disappointed.— (Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord has in the course of his speech used expressions, he has in the course of his speech uttered sentiments, which, in my opinion, are very little if any less objectionable—which are very little if any less offensive—(Cheers)—which are very little if any less likely to have a prejudicial effect on the feelings of the two countries, than was that speech which he delivered on a former occasion in this House with such eminent success—(Loud cheers)—with so much success in exciting indignation and passion —with so much success in accumulating every difficulty and obstacle possible in the way of a fair and conciliatory conclusion of this subject.--(Much cheering.) 'What does the Noble and Learned Lord say on the present oc casion? In the course of that invective in which he has thought proper to indulge, he has said that those who com posed the Conservative meetings are the friends of the King and Constitution ; while we, the Ministers, arc supported by none but the enemies of the Constitution. What right has he to make that assertion ?—(Great cheering.) What right has the Noble and Learned Lord to make that charge? —(Cheers.) Be they Roman Catholics or be they Dis senters, by what right does he assume that superiority of character?—(The burst of cheers from the Ministerial benches prevented us from hearing the conclusion of the sentence.) What entitles him to assume that right to cen sure and condemn ? Is his character so high ?—(Cheers.) 13 his character so far above theirs—(Continued cheering) —as to justify him in setting himself up as the censor of others—(lienewed cheers)—as the censor and condemner of such large masses of his fellow-subjects ?—(lmmense cheering.)—l mean to speak nothing but what is respectful of that Noble and Learned Lord.—(Much laughter from both sides of the House.) I have always expressed a great respect for his abilities ; and I repeat what I have more than once in this House stated, that I confine my re spect strictly to his abilities.—(Repeated cheers.) Having that respect for his abilities, I say it is not fitting—l say it is not becoming the station which he has filled in this coun try--that he should cast this bitter censure on so large a body of his fellow-countrymen, or his fellow-subjects.— (Cheering and laughter.) But with respect to the question which the Noble and Learned Lord has brought before the 'louse, I stated on a former occasion that I could not concur in the grounds which the Noble and Learned Lord has submitted for the postponement of the measure ; and having objected to them on the sth of May, it is not likely that I should concur in them now on the 9th of June.— ( Hear, hear.) I do not think the reasons urged are at all sufficient. 1 think it is unusual—l think it is most impru dent—l think it is most unwise to make the operations of this House depend on any thing passing in the other House -of Parliament. I say, first, that the course proposed is a new mode of proceeding—l say it is an inconvenient mode ; I say that it cannot tend to advantage between the two co ordinate assemblies, each being a House that is the guar dian of its own powers and privileges, and acting one on the other-1 say, that proceeding on this principle is not likely to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. My Lords, I see no reason why your Lordships should not go into Committee at present. The Noble and Learned Lord has stated objections to the details of the Bill ; he has objected to the jurisdiction given to the Cor porations ; to the extent of patronage they will have at their disposal. These, however, are all questions for the Committee, into which I now move your Lordships to go. But though the Noble Lord stated these objections to the details, the greater part of his speech went to the prin ciple of the Bill—(Hear, hear)—it referred to the state of Ireland—to the stata of the population of Ireland—to the power to be given to those who form the greater portion of the population of Ireland. The Noble and Learned Lord said the Bill proposed to confer on them a power which cannot with safety to the Protestants of Ireland be trusted to them. Yet he says the people of Ireland are desirous of the Bill, and he also is desirous that the Bill should pass.--(Hear, hear.) He is desirous, too, that it should be founded on the principle of election.--(Hear, hear.) Why, is it not extraordinary that lie should be de sirous of passing this measure, entertaining the opinions he has expressed respecting the majority in Ireland, and the motives by which they are actuated? But the Noble and Learned Lord would have the 'Bill founded on the principle of election. Now, I will answer for it, that be his ingenuity and skill what they may, lie will not be able to escape from the difficulty of the majority of the popula tion of Ireland being Roman Catholics.—(Hear, hear.) If that really unfits them fur the privileges which this Bill would confer on them, no skill or ingenuity of his can ever contrive an escape from it. I therefore beg to say, that in my opinion he has acted most inconsistently in giving any countenance to the Bill whatever. The Noble and Learned Lord, having been unfortunately ab sent during a considerable portion of the session, has come forward on the present occasion, and raked up all the topics of the Roman Catholic Association, and the ap pointment of persons who were members of that Asso ciation to office in Ireland, those topics having been discussed over and over again. It was what the ses sion began with, and, according to the Noble and Learned Lord, it seems to be that with which he intends the ses sion shall close. The Noble and Learned Lord appeals to his own consistency, and to the consistency of the House on the present occasion. He says you cannot consistently with what you have already done adopt any other course than that of postponing the Bill on the grounds on which you postponed it before. I beg to claim for myself and for the Noble Lords beside me the privilege of paying some attention to our consistency, and we feel that we cannot give our consent to any further postponement, having objected on a former occasion to the reasons advanced in favour of the delay as insufficient. I stated that to act on the grounds which were then proposed would be most dan gerous, and to postpone the forwarding of one Bill till some other Bill comes down from the other House is a course of great difficulty and delicacy. I put it to the Noble Duke, than whom there is not, I believe, one of your Lordships who is more capable of taking a sound practical view of any question, whether it is not s o ? I as k hi m w h e th er h e thinks it practicable for the two Houses to proceed in this manner —whether some accident is not likely to occur—whether some temper may not be excited—whether some difficulty would not probably arise which would render it impossible to bring the matter to a satisfactory termination. The course proposed is one more refined and subtle, I will ven ture to say, than any which the sound sense of the Noble Duke ever suggested, or which has come within the range of his experience. With great bodies of men you cannot act in that manner, and if that be the object which we have in view we shall fail. 'Then why not go into Committee ?' What is the reason why you will not go into a consideration of this Bill—why you will not go into Committee, and then take into consideration all the practical suggestions of the Noble and Learned Lord, rejecting all the general objec tions with which he has chosen to accompany them, and which, if allowed to take effect, would be fatal to the whole measure ?—(Hcar, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord has alluded to gentlemen whom he has pleased to call the patrons and defenders of the Government. He says we are entirely supported by the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and we are therefore willing to assist and promote their in terests every way in our power to the prejudice of the Pro testants at large. I say that is not the case.--(Hear, hear.) I beg to deny that imputation altogether. I beg to say that we are no more willing to see the Protestant interest in Ireland trampled or trodden under foot than he is—not in the slightest respect.—(Hear, hear.) We are determined to assert the rights, liberties, and properties, and all that belongs to every class of his Majesty's sub jects, whether they are of the Church Establishment, or whether they are not of it—whether they are of one de scription of faith or of another.—(Much cheering.) The Noble and Learned Lord has adverted to the Roman Catholic Association of Ireland. I have said what I think of that Association, and I do not consider it necessary to repeat my remarks on the present occasion. But the Noble and Learned Lord says, was there ever such an Asso ciation before ? In reply, I think I might endeavour to re cal to the Noble and Learned Lord's recollection, whether, when he sat on the Woolsack from the year 1827 to the year 1829, there did not exist such a body in the country ? —(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The Noble and Learned Lord then called to his aid neither the common law, if that was sufficient, nor did he introduce any new Statute on the occasion. —(Lord Lyndhurst expressed dissent.) I know what the Noble and Learned Lord is going to say ; he would tell us that he did not introduce a new Statute ; but though he did so, was it not under cover of the Concession Bill 2 (Hear)—of that Bill which was to confer equal civil rights and privileges on the Roman Catholics ? I will not inquire now whether what was done on that occasion was prudently or wisely done ; nor will I express an opinion as to the ob servation which accompanied the measure, because I do not wish to stir up matters which formerly created great diffe rences of opinion ; but I cannot help saying, that I think, unless it had been the intention to concede to the Roman Catholics all they required as regarded equality of civil rights, that concession never would have been made. The Noble and Learned Lord has stated that we gave way to the Roman of Ireland, and speaks of the Ass°• ciation in Ireland as a Roman Catholic Association. Un fortunately that Association is not a Roman Catholic Association ; and if there is any thing dangerous and for midable in that Association—if there is any thing which makes it more dangerous and formidable than the former one, it is that a bedy of Protestants belong to it, and that it has a more general character than any that ever before existed in that country. With respect to persons who have been members of that Association having been appointed to office in Ireland, I must say most distinctly that when an Association comprises amongst its members many distin guished individuals—when it has grown up to be of consi derable importance—when it has excited a great deal of enthusiasm in the minds of young men, and many young lawyers have been induced to enrol their names in it-1 think it would be unwise, I think it would be exceedingly imprudent; on the part of the Government to pronounce against all connected with it a ban of exclusion from office. --(Hear.) But, says the Noble and Learned Lord, that is what you have done with respect to the Orange Societies. Now, I beg to say that though that course was proposed by the Government, I entertained doubts as to its policy : I will even say that I never came to a decision with greater doubt ; but I yielded to the proposition on ac count of the peculiar character of those Societies.—(Hear, hear.) They were entirely secret—the members were bound together by secret oaths. I never have been irate tiated in their mysteries, but they were similar, I believe, to those of freemasonry.—(The Duke of Cumberland :, " No, no !"). I have understood that rites were observed of a very solemn nature ; that they were of an awful devo tional character.—(A laugh). Certainly the members of the Orange Lodges sometimes were bound by illegal secret oaths and awful ceremonies. The Duke of CUMBERLAND said, having been much connected with those Societies, he begged to observe that there never was anything of the sort described by the Noble Viscount, or he certainly never would havecountenanced them. Viscount MELBOURNE—If there were not secret oaths, nobody could go in but members ; the pro;xedings were secret. The Duke of CUMBERLAND—The meetings of every club in London are secret.—(Hear, and a laugh.) I never would have belonged to a society in which any oaths were taken of the sort mentioned by the Noble Vis count, or in which there were any proceedings contrary to the spirit of the laws and constitution of the country. Viscount MELBOURNE—The members of the . Orange Societies were, as I believed, bound together by oaths of secrecy—(Hear, hear)—and that induced me to adopt, with respect to them the policy of excluding them from of fice under the Government. The Noble and Learned Lord, in speaking of the Roman Catholic Association, made it a ground of charge against them that they took on themselves to levy money, to nominate candidates, and to influence the elections. Will the Noble and Learned Lord allow me to ask him, is there no club in London which does that ?—(llear, hear.) Does he know of no club in which money is raised, and that has been in stituted for the very purpose of carrying such objects as the influencing of elections into effect ? If that is to be a complaint against the Roman Catholic Associa tion, there are other bodies that must share it. I deny that any encouragement of the General Association has been given by his Majesty's Government, and I say that to appoint a professional man to office under the Govern ment who has been a Member of it is not to afford it undue encouragement. The Noble and Learned Lord had ob served that 100 years ago the number of Catholics in Eu rope was not equal to the number existing at present. I do not know to what countries he alludes ; but if it be a fact that the Protestants are diminishing, or that the Ro man Catholics are increasing, I am sorry to hear it. I am sorry to hear that the Roman Catholic religion is gaining anywhere on the Protestant religion. I have seen a state ment to that effect in the writings of men of ability, b ut I hoped that it was not accurate, and I regret to hear a si milar statement made on the authority of the Noble and Learned Lord. But, if it be true, that does not alter the present case at all. If the Catholic religion be winning and gaining—if it be increasing and drawing on the re formed religion--it is not by refusing to impart to the Roman Catholics the rights and privileges belonging to them—it is not by objecting to their number, that we shall correct or remedy that which we regret.—(Loud cheering.) The Noble and Learned Lord had adverted to one or two of the arguments which I used when I had the honour of submitting this Bill to your Lordships' consideration, and he has more particularly adverted to the proofs I furnished of the successful working of the English Municipal Bill. That perhaps was an impudent argu ment to use ; it certainly has had the effect of raising more discussion than I intended, and might tend to pre vent that very good which it was my object to show ex isted. What I have always said was that it would be, and I now say it is, evident that the Bill has worked better— that it has worked more smoothly—that it has worked more tranquilly in the second year of its operation than it did in its first. I expect it to work still better next year. As evidence of the success of that fact I appeal to time, which tries and passes judgment on all measures. With respect to the operation of the Act at Bristol, and the counter-statement of the Noble and Learned Lord, I have only to remark that I have been entrusted with a large petition from Bristol, agreed to at a public meeting, which confirms everything I stated on the subject on a former occasion. That petition I shall have the honour to present to your Lordships, and I do not wish to excite any further discussion on the subject, because I know it is one on which parties might be found who would make as sertions on the one side which would be denied on the other, without coming to a satisfactory ccnclusion. My Lords, I again declare that I cannot agree to the proposed p ostponement of the Bill. I must say " not content" to that postponement. Having made these observations, I shall p iss by all the more violent parts of the Noble and Learned Lord's speech. His long absence will perhaps account in s ime degree for the violence in which he has indulged ; it may be the result of his opinions having been for a con siderable period pent up.—(A laugh.) In conclusion, I must say not only " not content" to the postponement of the Bill, but also " not content" to the recurrence of any of the warmth which has been allowed to exhibit itself in these discussions. Their Lordships then divided, when the numbers were— For the motion ll9 For the amendment .. Majority —B6 The amendment was consequently carried. PRIVILEGES OF PARLIAMENT. Lord DENMAN stated that, in consequence of what he saw on the votes of the other House, he should not b ing firward the motion of which he had given notice for Tuesday next. The House then adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Java 9. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. WIGAN RECTORY BLL. Mr. BROTHERTON moved the resumption of the adjourned debate on the Wigan Rectory Bill. Lord DARLINGTON was one of the Committee who had considered the Bill, and in that character he trusted the House would bear with him for a few moments while he explained its provisions.—(Hear.) In passing, he would merely observe that during the whole of his Parliamentary experience he had never seen the pro ceedings before any Committee terminate so satisfactorily to all parties ; and, such having been the case, he could not adequately express the surprise he felt at the attempt to introduce a clause of so extraordinary a nature at a future stage. The Bill was for the purpose of allowing the Rector of Wigan, with the concurrence of the patron, to let the glebe lands out on building leases. While the Bill was before tke Committee, a petition was presented from the inhabitants of Wigan, com plaining of the stopping up of public walks which they had enjoyed from time immemorial. The Com mittee at once agreed to the proposition that they should be respected, that they should be beneficially enjoyed, and enacted that a portion of the land should be left free from building. There had been no petition before the Committee at all analogous to the clause about to be _ -- proposed. He considered it one w hi c h, if agreed to, would strike at the root of all private property, and was altogether one of the most extraordinary nature that he had ever seen introduced into the House.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was not proved that there was any want of religious instruction in the Parish ; if so, then undoubtedly the Rector, who, he understood, had a large income, was the proper person to supply it. But there was another person's interest concerned. He considered that his patronage was as much his own private property as any land of which he possessed the title. The principle contained in the clause was so strong and so iniquitous that he hoped the House would never agree to it. Mr. HINDLEY then moved the following clause— " Provided always, and be it further enacted that nothing in this Act contained shall in any manner prevent or interfere with any future appropriation by Parliament of any of the monies raised under and by virtue of this Act to providing salaries for additional Ministers of the Established Church in the parish of Wigan." The SPEAKER inquired if the Hon. Member intended to divide upon the introduction of the clause ? • Mr. HINDLEY said that he did. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided. The numbers were— For the clause 29 Against it B4 Majority On our re-entering the gallery, we found Mr. HINDLEY opposing the Bill. He said there was a clergyman in Wigan, named Bailey, officiating in a Church that had 1,800 sittings, and who only received 401. a-year. He thought the time was come when Church property must be improved, and when the poor and work ing clergyman must be remunerated. He did not want to injure any clergyman connected with the Established Church ; but when he found a Bill of this nature before Parliament, which sought to double the income of the Rector, in a place where 18,000 persons had been proved to be utterly unprovided with spiritual education, he felt bound to oppose it. Mr. E. ELLIS said there had never been an inclosure of the property hitherto, and there was a well in the centre of the ground sought to be enclosed, which was of great use to the inhabitants of Wigan, who had strongly peti tioned against the Bill, and the only person that would be benefitted was the Rector. He therefore felt it to be his duty to oppose the passing of such a measure. Mr. WILBR A HAM also opposed the Bill. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when the numbers were— For the third reading ll2 Against it Majority On our re-admis;ion to the Gallery we found Mr. HUME addressing the House. He said that on Monday a Committee was to be appointed to consider the best means of increasing the value of Church lands by a different manner of leasing.—(Hear.) The Bill then before the House prejudged that question, and as it was one of very great public importance, it would have been only consistent that his Majesty's Ministers had been in their places to support their own views of the subject.—(Loud cries of " Divide, divide.") In order to have the benefit of the attendance of his Majesty's Minis ters upon the question, he moved that the question then in the hands of the Speaker be agreed to that day six months. No division took place, and we were again admitted in five minutes, when we found Mr. D. W. HARVEY on his legs, complaining of the attempt to dispose of a great public question like that be fore the House, in the absence of the public.—(Cheers) He regretted the absence of his Majesty's Ministers—he re gretted that they should have been in their places in order to give all their support to a private Bill for making a Rail way from London to Brighton, and that they should not have found it convenient to attend and vote upon a question of such great importance, in order to have strengthened their own case, which was so soon to come before the House. The House appeared to be studiously kept in the dark on the question. He heard statements made on one side of the House which were flatly contradicted by the other ; and it must be at least with a feeling of pain that the House would decide upon a Bill, without any ex planation, which was characterized as a job. It was admitted that the Rector of Wigan already enjoyed an income exceeding 2,000/. a-year—he was ic.formed 2,3001.; now the effect of the Bill was to double that income. —(No.) Would the Bill, in any manner, increase that income ? If so, he called on those Gentlemen opposite, who had come forward upon a late occasion as the most strenuous supporters of the Church, not as an Establishment, but as the poor man's Church, and as being most anxious for its further extension—he called upon them by their vote upon that occasion to keep clear of the charge of hypocrisy. Now that an opportunity presented itself, when they could carry out the views they had then only theoretically put forth, every club had been scoured and emptied in order to swell the numbers of the Conservatives against their avowed principles.—(Laughter from the Opposition.) By their support to the Bill they proposed to bribe a Clergyman till the depth of his worldly advantages would make him forget his high and holy calling. —(Hear.) He trusted the House would by some means or other procrastinate the measure, even in its final stage, until the Ministry were present to clear themselves from the inference which might be drawn against them, and to give Hon. Gentlemen opposite an opportunity of consider ing the vote they were about to g ive. Mr. HINDLEY was astonished at the very full at tendance which he saw on the opposite benches.—(Laugh ter.) He called upon the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Sandon) to vote with him upon this occasion, as upon the Church-rate question he had said that wherever a Clergyman was amply provided for, ho for one would be most willing to apply the surplus to the spiritual wants of the people. He begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Chair whether it would be in order then to move that the title of the Bill be 'altered ? The SPEAKER thought it was. Mr. HINDLEY then said that it was necessary he should go into the general principle. The question was, whether the House would allow this money to go to the increase of the luxury of any individual ; or would the House appropriate it in the manner recommended by the Com missioners ? Mr. BAINES thought that an attempt had been made to prevent the value of this living being known.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He had a return by which it appeared that the gross income was 2,323/. a year, and the net 2,3301. Now what were the facts with respect to this arish, with reference to Church accommodation ? There were no less th tn 800,000 inhabitants, and only room for C0,C60 Where, he would ask, could there he a better opportunity than the present of increasing Church accommodation ? —( Hear, hear.) He would put it to the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool, whether the present was not a fair opportunity of increasing Church accommobtio ? The question was, whether the House woul f sanction the proposition for increased accommodation, or would uphold the abuses of an overpaid Church ? He did not wish to put the matter too strongly, but that in his opinion was the common sense view of the case. if Church accom modation were required, he trusted the House would act upon its information, and not upon its ignorance. Dr. BOWRI NG said the presentation of this Bill to Parliament was the act of the Rector himself. Ile had put himself into the hands of Parliament to decide on this particular subject.—( Hear, hear.) When the question of the increase of Church property was to be brought before the House, and some general principle was to be discussed, it was going too far to take this particular part of it out of the operation of that general principle.--(Cheers.) There was then a cry of " Strangers must withdraw," but Mr. ROEBUCK rose. He said—There is a great deal of hypocrisy, Sir, in this House.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches, echoed by loud cheers from the Opposition.) I see the Right Hon. Member for Cambridge opposite. I want to meet that Right Hon. Gentleman on this matter.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Sir, I hear very often on the opposite side of the House great statements made about accommodation for the worship of God.—( Hear.) I heard this week, on Wednesday night, great statements made about the necessity of worshipping God on the Sab bath Day—(Cheers)—and now we have in opposition to the worship of God a certain quantity of money to be put into the pocket of the Rector.—(l-lear, and cheers.) And now we shall find the value of certain protestations by the vote that will be given on this occasion.—(Cheers.) Which will carry it—Worship or the Parson's pocket ? (Laughter.) The Parson's pocket, if I understand it.— (Cheers.) You (pointing to the Opposition benches) talk about worship when it is for your own p - e - culiar party purposes ; but when there is a question of whether you are to have money or worship, you are all for money.—(Cheers and laughter from the Opposition benches.) The Wght Hon. Gentleman the Member for Cambridge laughs at that. He acknowledges the statement. He laughs when I talk about the worship of God.—(Cheers.) Let the country know that we shall understand the excitement of the Right Honourable Gentleman before we have done.—(Loud cheers.) The question is this :—a certain Clergyman, hay inc, above two thousand pounds a ye ar , w i s h es t o p u t about b double that sum into his pocket by an improved value given to the estate by Act of Parliament.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The Earl of DARLINGTON here rose, and was greeted with loud and general cries of " Order, order," from the Ministerial benches. He said, I cannot speak to order, because the Hon. Member is misrepresenting the question. —(Cries of " Oh, oh.") The SPEAKER explained that the question was, whe ther the debate should be adjourned to this day six months. The Earl of DARLINGTON then sat down. Mr. ROEBUCK--I have to know, Sir, why lam in. terrupted.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord rises to cal me to order—for what ? The Earl of DARLINGTON—For misrepresenting the question.—(Cheers from the Tories.) Mr. ROEBUCK—Misrepresenting the question! The person who put me out of order was th e N o bl e L or d him- self.—(Loud cheers). If Hon. Members were called to order every time they strayed from the question there would be an eternal interruption of debate. The real question before us is, are we to interfere by an Act of Parliament so to increase the value of Church property, when there is before the House a measure respecting improving Church property generally ?—( Hear.) This is nothing more than an attempt by a side w►nd to take out of the operation of that Act a certain particular person—(Hear, hear,)—and I am somewhat surprised his Majesty's Ministers are not here. It is now 20 minutes past five by that clock. Why are his Majesty's Ministers not here to defend a specific violation of the measure ?—a violation of their measure to a very important extent, and let the country understand to what extent it is. A man having 2,0001, a-year is not satisfied with that, .and he is a non-resident.---(Cries of " No, no," from the Tories, and cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He would say " Yes." They were endeavouring to in crease the value of the property twofold.—(lnterruption.) He would not be interrupted. A new rule had been intro duced, by which one Hon. Member was not to interrupt another.—(A laugh.) The question was as to the ad journment of the consideration of the question, and until the general question of Church property was settled, the present specific one could not be fairly brought before it. If his Hon. Friend divided the House upon the question until four o'clock to-morrow, he (Mr. Roebuck) would go with him.—( Cheers.) Lord SANDON did not wish the question to go to a division, until lie had corrected a mis statement made by the Hon. Member for Bath. The Hon. Member had stated that the present was an attempt to withdraw certai❑ property from the operation of a measure to be introduced by the Government. The object of that measure was to give increased value to Bishops' and Chapters' leases, and with that the present question had nothing to do. Mr. W. PATTEN denied the statement of the Hon. M mber for Bath, that the clergyman was non-resident ; on the contrary, he was one of the most regular resi dent clergyman in the diocese.—(Opposition cheers.) Mr. C. BULLER was delighted to find that the Cler gyman was resident, and it appeared to him that he was amply paid for it by an income of 2,8001. a year. He could not conceal his astonishment to find Hon. Members coming down to double that income, wholly forgetting the destitute souls whose howlings prevented those Honourable Mem bers from sleeping. When the question of Church rates was under discussion be appealed to the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, whether his prin ciple was not a different one when he brought forward the measure of Irish Church-cess ? He had then said, when the Legislature stepped in and gave property a value it had not before, much as lie was inclined to maintain the sanctity of Church property, he was not inclined to give that additional property to the Church, and in such cases the Church had no claim, and it might be applied to secular or any other purposes. After a few words from Mr. WASON, Mr. HINDLEY rose amid loud cries of " Spoke, spoke," and " Withdraw." He only wished to correct the statement that had been made, that the whole matter in dispute had been left to the two Hon. Members for Wigan. —(Cries of " Spoke.") Lord SANDON rose amid tremendous cries of " Spoke, spoke." After a few observations from Mr. AINSWORTH and Mr. WILBRAHAM, Lord STANLEY rose to address the House. Hon. Members had refrained from making statements, because they were convinced that the only object was delay.— (Cheers.) The sole object of the Bill was to allow mining to take place upon the land which now belonged to the glebe. The Rector of this living had been charged with being non-resident ;so far from that, he performed duty three times on a Sunday and twice in the week, and was noted for his liberality, spending no less than 1,1001. a year for the good of his parishioners. Taking all the circumstances of the case into consideration, he thought the course pursued was most vexatious.—(Cheers.) Mr. WAKLEY said that he expected an answer from the Noble Lord to what had been stated by Hon. Members on:that side of the House, but he had given none. The fact was, that the Hon. Members on the opposite of the House was acting the part of hypocrites. Lord FRANCIS EGERTON rose to order. He be lieved it was not competent to Hon. Members to accuse others of hypocrisy. The SPEAKER said the words used by the Hon. Member for Finsbury were out of order. Mr. WA KLEY said, after the opinion of the Chair, he would not accuse the Members on the other side of hypocrisy. This question must be understood by the country.—(Cheers.) The object of the Bill was to add to the comforts of the Rector. Mr. STUART WORTLEY deprecated the course pursued by the lion. Member for Ashton. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared— For the motion Against it. . 108 189 - Majority against the motion -SI On our admission to the Gallery, we found Mr. C. BULLER on his legs, deprecating the statement of the Nnble Lord opposite (Stanley), who had accused the Hon. Members on that side of the House with adopt ing the course they had done for the purpose of delay. He wished to move an alteration to the title of the Bill, in order to show that the opinion of the House was that the object of the Bill was to divert public property to private pur poses.--(Cheers.) Mr. HUME wished to observe that the reason why his side of the House had adopted the course of opposition which they were now pursuing against this Bill was, that they were forced to it by the unexpected nature of its provisions, of which they were not aware until informed of it, after the se cond reading, in a getition from Wigan. The principle which he ( Mr. Hume) and those who voted with him wished to as sert was the right of Parliament to improve the revenues of the Church, and to apply any increased value which by such means they might attain to public purposes. He should cer tainly wish to see the further discussion of this question post. poned until his Maje§ty's Ministers were prea*nt. Mr. HINDLE Y supported the amendment. He put it to the House whether it was not too bad that one Minister should have 401. a year for most anxious and laborious duties, and that they should give the rector, who bad two curates Ile under him, 4,0001. i nstea d o f '4,00/. a year? .4 shook, move that the further debate on this subject be adjourned till Monday. Lord SAND ON was understood to express himself a' ::verse to an arljeurrment. Mr. D. W. HARVEY hoped no attempt would be throw over so imp° , tant a question. Looking at the ire Pe r .,, tance of the principle which appeared to be involved in it, lie thought it but due to the members of his MAjesty's Goveti?, . ment that they should have an opportunity of expressing their further sentiments upun it, and he therefore hoed that the discussion of it would be postponed, in crier that they wig' be present. The supporters of this Bill denied that its objec t was greatly to augment the revenues of the rector of W l iPi r !' Why, if that were really the case, it was directly contrary I . o t what was stated in the preamble of the Bill, namely, that I made to would he " of great advantage," and so forth, to the rector. The ILn. Member then proceeded to taunt Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who were set apart as saints, and whose b u siness . i 1 was to lectur e a t E xeter -h a ll, and to defend arid promote the religion of th e coun t r y, an d w h o ma i n t a i ne d that all Chur eß property should be applied to spiritual purposes, fur not raising their voices on the subject of this Bill. Mr. HARDY would beg the House to bear this in mind, that if this Bill did pass, it would not take the rectory of Wig an out of the operation of any general measure which might here after be passed on the subject. Let them, therefore, pas s Bill to apply to all the livings in England, but let them ne t legislate upon a new and important principle for one. Mr. AGLIONB Y hoped that his Majesty's Gov would bass a Bill affecting not only the Bishops' leases, a"' Church leases, but ever y description of Church prop.erty. throughout the country,.and confirm the principle of the re' of Parliament to apply all improved revenues as it though t proper. Mr. LAMBTON hoped the Hon. Member would withdraw his motion. The House then divided on the motion for the adjournment, as we understood— Id 66 165 For the Amendment . Against it . . Majority against the Amendment... 99 On our return to the gallery, Mr. HAVES was on his legs, addressing some ° Jen tions to the Opp os i t i on b enc h, which, amidst the ca ul-- which prevailed, was quite inaudible. After a few words from Mr. WILKs and Mr. W. PAT T Mr. C. BUL L was understood to say that having Put his sentiments on recor d b y t h e amen d ment w hi c h be moved, he should not press it further. ng The amendment was t h en put , and negatived without Pi to a division, and th e ti t l e t o t h e Bill agree d to. PORTLAND CEMETERY. The further examin a ti on o f w i tnesses re l at i ve to the Port land Cemetery Bill was postponed till Tuesday. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to take the opportuto s of stating that as it wou ld b e i nconven i ent that t h e iltl t should adjourn till M on d ay , h e wou ld move that i t meet , morrow for three or four hours. It was necessary that the English Corporation A men d ment A ct, as returne d f r om t . House of Lords, s h ou ld come un d er t h e considerat i on of t°' House as speedily as possible ; and he would therefore 112 ° 11 that the House at its rising do adjourn till to-morrow. VOTERS IN IRELAND. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON wished to ask the Noble I" °rd if it were the inte n d )n of the Governm en t t o i n t r oduce aPv to measure this Session r e l a ti ve t o t h e qua lifi cat i on o f v oter's Ireland? Lord MO RPETH said the subject was under consi ders ; tion, and it was the an x i o u s w i s h of Government to introchfe some measure, but they wished first to have the Report of Committee on fictitious votes, and particularly that part of it i r „ lative to the county of Longford. It was a subject of diffico" t and he could not say wh en h e wou ld b e prepare d to bring I forward. THE CANADAS. for Mr. ROEBUCK w i s h e d to as k t h e U n d er S ecre tar of the Colonies when the Bills relative to the Government Canada were to be introduced ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said no day bad yet bee 0 0 0, pointed. Probably he would be able to inform the Member on Tuesday or Wednesday. STEAM NAVIGATION TO INDIA. fe e Lord W. BENTINCK move d t h at a S elect Cornrn' t— o f be appointed for the purpos e o f ascerta i n i ng t h e best reed° steam navigation to India by the Red Sea. Mr. G. F. YOUNG—The last words, "by the R e d Sent ought to be omitted. Mr. HUME said it would be desirable to have the full ac ; count of the Euphrat es ex p e di t i on b e f ore t h em, before tti House came to any resolution on the subject. The motion was then agreed to. PLURALITIES BILL. In answer to a question from Mr. A. TREVOR, t o Lord JOHN RUSSELL sa id i t was not his inten tioe bring on the Pluralities Bill that evening, and be could not say when ; nor w as h e certa i n t h at he should be able to go ° l3 with it this session. IRISH TITHE BILL. for Lord JOHN RUSSELL move d t h e O r d er of t h e DaY the second reading of this Bill. Mr. O'CONNELL p resen t e d a pet i t i on f rom Dr. WI i ll of the diocese of Tuam, complaining that the Irish Tithe B_ was insufficient for th e p ur p oses for which it was intend e d' The Hon. and Learned Member also presented 73 petitio to from varioua towns and counties in Ireland, praying,, House to support the general policy of his Majesty's M illis ' ters towards Ireland. Mr. SHAW presented a petition from certain P ers °l, in the diocese o f Cl oyne an d R oss against the Ministerial measure. Mr. D. BROWNE presented a petition from Tuam iu 61. • Your of the Bill. Mr. BODKIN presented petitions against the Tithe from the inhabitants of the town of Tuam and its viciniti' from the town and parish of Dunmore, from the united P s f rishes of Liskeary and Adragoole, from the united parishes,,, Buovenagh and Temple together, from the R oma n Catho' e clergy of the. archdi ocese an d d eanery o f T uam, an d f ro m tb i united parishes of Kilkerrin acid Clonberran. STATE OF THE NATION. On the Order of the Day being read, Mr. ROEBUCK said it would be in the recollection 0. - h e House that he had given notice of a motion relative to the state in which the Governm en t s t oo d, an d h e cons id er ea , t present occasion a fit o pp or t un i ty f or re d eem i ng hi s pledge' The circumstances in whi c h th at H ouse stoo d were most red markable, and required deep consideration. Two Bills sib been sent up to the o th er H ouse o f P ar li ament, b ut t h e y wet s told the House of L or d s wou ld not ta k e t h em i nto cons ide.,"; tion until something h a d b een d one b y t h at H ouse to Pleji them. Of that thr ea t no not i ce was ta k en, an d particule r at none by his Majesty' s Mi n i s t ers , an d h e was bound to say, fro their whole conduct, that they did nothing for the Pe ° P,t, though they did much ag a i ns t th em ; t h e i r l a b ours , in , were little better than nothing. The House and the countrtio had been told at various times that justice was to be done be Ireland ; but wh a t h e w i s h e d to ca ll t h e attention at, House to, was th e s i tuat i on i n w hi c h t h at H ouse, t h e 000 t„ , try, and the G overnmen t were , at the present w omen and he asked the House, and he asked his Majesty's , nisters, if they were not i n a ver y extraor di nar y diffievi t l e .; —( Hear, hear, hear.) What was that difficulty i f 1 : 16 ,t was no Government of th e coun t r y. Th e diffi cu lty wes..`, be r , the time of the House was sp en t t o no purpose ; an d AT b y than that, the stopp a g e to b us i ness was not on ly L:110 0 ' 1 12 0 the other House, but also by the House of Commons• the other night the Government had really suffered y defeat on the Chur c h- ra t es Bill, w h en , on a division, the „. B had only a majority of five in their favour. Now, @Yell' knew that was virtually a defeat, and the Bill c ould, P ee again be brought forward in th a t House. Ministers a l e , not in the position in which they st oo d a t th e comme n ol ment of the session. They stated then that they 1, (6 .., place their existence as Mini s t ers on t h e f a t e o f the Li. be t poration Bill for Ireland. Th e N o bl e L or d th e L e ader of ;tile House stated in his place, that if that Bill did not pas; his House he and his colleagues would retire. What 1 4 ' te sfl come of that Bill? 'Why, it had been postponed, and Ott distinctly understood that it would he postponed .00 Lords knew nhat that House was about. The other /lu s o thwarted and obstructed measures sent up to thernv virtually said to the blouse of Commons, if y ou will 00t t ha what we like we will not pass your Bill. That el a t e t position of the House of Lords ; b u t o b s t ru ction and hc itt - were not confined to the House of Lords. Wbat bad o re done in that House? Every proposition—every Inu l ds be brought forward for removing the evil, th e Noble Lord an . s s, Government had distinctly and unequivocally refused to Pa Every one of these propositions the Noble Lord had ei, ar es of by an evasion. In what state, then, were they ? aee se, lysed. And he asked the Noble Lord, he asked the fi t i e and, further, be asked the country, wh a t good was t o c .u e , r i t be rived from playing over a farce by discussing the Iri-nfest Bill ? Did they not know that, if it passed that House, d e w ? awaited it elsewhere, and that it could not become ea to Every one said that to his neighbour, that it was of no vs He discuss such a measure, because it was sure to be lost. a id wanted, therefore, to see if the position of the countrycues, be altered—he wanted to see if there were any inenn. s ifice jty. tricatiug the House and the country from the di_ Lile s Everybody knew the difficulty was great—everyb od y if that the existence of the Ministry hung on a thread a ;.;i,erf present circumstances continued, there would not be _r_ ber ) much longer. I am willing (continued the Hon. 51 ,e_ i f ire es to allow that Ministers have honest intentions, and are .. ?l no s to carry out the fruits of the Reform Bill ; but et' l o l e yed ask what has been done ? It must be in the recollection Of . a after the par e classes—those who were to remain unrepresented c.a _ to t he ing that on the passing that Reform Act the unrepre• ing of the Reform Act—determined to forego tbeirt i, t h e ir franchise, upon the representations made to them a , mea s ure friends of the advantages to be derived from t i ts wort told when it became a law. For example, the p . eOPL• wadi that important reductions should take place le the edit" tare of the State. Improvements were promisee' , . to versa-, v: nistration of the law in all its branches. Justice was s eta. long delayed, was now confidently anticipatedf w o uld posed that by a reformed Parliament effectual n er thue o tt . e be provided for the education of the Pe ° P le ' t : the est f e or ground laid for e t rid of every objection . corruptiond to thcrmore, we were told that the governmepo'n was raisesaint sion of the suffrage to all classes of the peop,leof was to be ended for ever, and Tory dominati e s then da be doomed to eternal destruction. Th e hop m ade have ." _OO6 have been miserably disappointed—the p nditure „ ) f the u . , o f have been shamefully broken. The earn the Pal a l try is as wasteful and extravagant as • of expend''h reduction 0 ob,o f Toryism. There has been no actual cry a may en ture—( Oh, oh.) Honourable Members o's at the. tea certain unfortunately there are certain 0, Adn" nis Re certain figures.—( Cheers and laughter.) as of the the a Y Irelan d of the law is as disgraceful now as before e to been den , formed Parliament. Justice bas not THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, JUNE 10, 1837.