The Sun. — London, England, 1812-05-08 00:00:00

SECOND EDITION. SUN-pFFICE-TWO O'CLOCK. BULLETIN. WAR DEPARtMENT. May 8, 181 z. Dispatches have been received from the Earl o WELLINGTOII, dated Niza, April 16. Sotm-r had colleted his army at Villa Franca, on the Bth of APril, but hearing there of the fall of Badajoz, he retired in the night towards Andalusia. His rear was closely followed by the British Ca I :alrY, under Sir STAPLETON COTTON, who came up With 2500 of the enemy's horse, early in the even ing of the > ith, near Villa Garcia. Sir S. COTTON A ll Upon these with two brigades, commanded by Major -Gen. Ls MARCHANT, and Cul. PONSONBY. l be French -were overthrown, and driven in great confusion to Llerena.. They sustained a ►er, considerable loss in killed and wounded, and "e roadeabout one hundred and fifty prisoners. On the part of the British, fifty were killed or wound— ed; amongst the latter is Major PRESCOTT, of the sth Dragoon Guards, slightly; and Lieut. War-- "It of • the same regiment, severely. Great coni- Ilendation is bestowed upon Sir S. COTTON, Major /eneral La MAscHANT, Colonels PONSONBY, and 1447 EY, Major PRESCOTT and other Officers. .The enemy's forces retreated, upon the 11th, from lerena, and have evacuated Estramadura entirely. Lord WELLINGTON had not heard from General gLLASTEROS. The Count DE PENNE VILLAMAR i d approached Seville by the right of the Guade li ver, and had skirmished with the garrison upon le sth, and bad obliged them to retire within their °t ics. Lord WELLINGTON had accounts from Ciu id Rodrigo, up to the 9th, when the enemy still 1 3 t the place blockaded, but had made no attack. he Y had not repeated their visit to Almeida, where SUffered some loss, in a reco:nloisance upon the of April. ° Pon the 7th inst. most of MARMONT'S troops ° veil from near Ciudad Rodrigo towards Sahagut, their advanced guard entered Castel Branco on I - 2 th, but evacuated it before day-light on the ' tb k when General ALTEN's Hussars, and Colonel C OR's Brigade of Militia entered the town. l ' f ' r d WELLINGTON is moving towards Castille, 41'4 advanced guard has reached Castel Branco. FRENCH PAPERS. r "III S, MAY I.—The Senate had an extraordi tneetin4 to-day, under the presid ency o f t h e 4-chancellor of th e E mp i re. t-rc IA, APRIL lg.—The corps of obse)vation n ,, ° °Ps in our neighbourhood, is esfimated at '"u° unen y t ... • is.'NNA, APRIL, Ig.—Nothing has transpired re the negociations at Bucharest. Probably rleni„,, • • tentiaries wait the return of a courier c ' e ned to Constantinople wiih the r esu l t o f t h e ) A °6 ferences. All i s t ranqu il i n S ervia. ar ll s , At li 1 . — To-day, between four and five c aft ernoon, Mi c h e l Mi c h e l , convicted of hay i !d the State secrets to the agents of a foreign r, suffe re d the punishment of death, to which 'as condemned, in the Place de Greve. n eral M eet i ng o f the i nhabitants of Graves tieMonday C onvened by the M a y or on onday last, it ' e d Hall, wh en a C omm i ttee was ap- Porti' and a liberals übscription ent ere d i nto, f or • ng Petitions to Parliament against the appli. , dol : . ° remove the India trade from the Port of 11. SMIT HFIELD -MARKET, MAY 8. Is's c't c d ar3 mark et h a d a scanty supply of different I:Cattle; L im b , Pork, and Veal support last : Beet and Mut lon are dearer, and the trade tiannost part was not over brisk. The sales in n 3 : E llatliet were ra th er dull ; Straw has got price, Hay has fallen in price, Clo ver f e t c h e d ar':e."-The undermentioned prices and num a correel statement : ef; es To sink the Otral, per stone of Sib. ksts 4(1 . to 6s. hd. Mutt on , 55. 4 d . to 6s. Ed. Veal, 6cl; 7 ' 6d. Pork, 55. od. to bs. Sd. Lantl?,,ls• 4d. %to' 19°. Sheep and Lambs, 5,600. Calves, sg. 0 SMITHFIELD HAYMARKET'. Clo • od. to 61. os. o(1. Straw, 21. los. •d. to 31. er, 61 . os- od. to 71. tss. od. Og ts f,Z..,X tR ANGE, M AY B.—We h ave to- d ay se: s' e "I a rrivals of Wh eat as o f l ate, part thereof give°9l'and, the trade extreniely heavy in sales, p Way in pri ce; a l so f or Barley and Malt; aijo e tl a d 13eciDS ose f each sort still a t little I ; very f ew G rey ; there are again several i ties Ival s of Oats and second., with inferior n es ed h lc a Med lowe r; Fl our cont i nues at late at ditt,l2s a 18s a 134 s ; - 1 4: aa g42S s l••• G 6 s a 75' eastefk_": ili a "1°44139 zoos 6 s a 92s - 72 S a 78S 70S a 76s Tick Beans - •66s a • 72s Ditto (fine old) 73s a 74s Oats -46 s a soS a 55s Poland ditto 56s a 57s Potatoe ditto -58 s, a 59s Rape Seed - 701 a 761 Fine Flour - less a x Los seconds loss a losi , ' IMP ERLIZ, PA PL U 4 EN HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSOAY, MAY 7. The third reading of the Embezzlement till was postponed to Wednesday next. REGENT'S CANAL. On the motion to take into further consideration the Report on the Regent's Canal Bill, Mr. CREEVY objected to the measure, principally on the ground of Lord Glenbervie not having pro duced ;)is report to the House, as Inspecior Gene ral of Crown Lands, and moved as an Amendment, " That the further consideration should be post poned to this day fortnight." Mr. MANNING said, he saw no occasion for delay after the four months deliberation bestowed upon the Bill; a period of time which he believed was never before allotted to a Bill of that nature. Mr. Bt DDULPH conceived that wliether they were guided by the pecuniary consideration of making the most profitable use of Mary.la-bonne Park, or whe ther they looked to that as a mere secondary con sideration, still they would find that the Report of the Surveyor General was wanting; upon which ground he should vote against the Bill. 'Mr. BROUGHAM de'recated the usual canvas for jobs, which he feared was too often resorted to on both sides of the House. With respect to Mary-la bonne Park itself, he regarded it as a useful and healthful recreation for the public, and the same principle • upon which a Right Hon. Gentleman, now no more (Mr. Windham) had objeaed former ly to building on it, held good in the present case. They were now going to cut canals, to build quays, barracks, and villas, and plant shrubberies ; all this might be agreeable enough for the owners, but it would reduce the ground appropriated to the re creation of the inhabitants of the metropolis, to one ttnith of its present extent. He should therefore oppose it, as a sacrifice of the comfort of the poor to the convenience of the rich. After a few words from Mr. P. Carew in support of the ail, the House divided, For the Amendment _ For the original Motion No subscribers voted. The report was then agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be engrossed. Mr. W. Pot presented Petitions from the Di reators and Debenture Holders of the Royal Canal of Dublin, praying aid. They were - ordered 10 lie on the table. He then gave notice, that he should to-morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill, to make a better provision for the Petitioners. xc , 49 ORDERS IN COUNCIL. The House next went into Committee on the Orders in Council, .and Messrs. G. Naylor,, B. Rhodes, J. Wedgewood, and.R. , Stevenson, were called and examined. Mr. BROUGHAM moved, that the Chairman should leport progress. He wished to give notice, that he would to-morrow move, that the Com mit!ee should sit on Saturday, and in the mean time he would propose .o ask leave to sit again to-mor row, but with an understanding in cousequence of what occurred on Tuesday, that the Committee should only be gone intopro forma. The CHANCELLOR Of EXCHEQUER geed it to .Se his intention to oppose the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman for going into the Committee on Satur day. He thought it unreasonable to suppose, that if the Committee were appointed to sit on Saturday, the attendance would be no other than very thin, alter the House had been occupied to so late an hour as that to which it might be expected the de bate of Friday would be protradted. Mr. Baouon Am had, no wish to press it on the House or even on the Right Hon. Genth•min He di.l not wish the Committee to sit late on Saturday but, be though)! it might sit from three o'clock to five. If this were objt:tted to, he would move, that the Committee should sit again on Monday, at the same time wishing to impress on the House the ne cessity of proceeding as tast as they possibly could with the inquiry. - .After a few words from an Honourable Member, whose name we could not learn, the proposition for going into the Committee on Saturday being ob jeaed to, the House resumed, the Chairman re ported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on . Monday. MARQUIS OF 13UCKINCHANI AND LORD CAMDLN. Mr. CaEivy - rose pursuant to notice, to call the a!tention of the House to the t - wo Tellerships of the Exchequer,. held by the Marquis of Buckingham and Lord Camden. In bringthg this question for ward, it must be seen that he was influenced by no party motive, as the too Noblemen he had named, were of different pal ties. These two sinecures had been given to the Noble Lords he had mentioned, for certain services which they had pertormcd. With this distribution he found no fault, as they came within the rule which had usually been ailed upon in rewarding such public servants. What lie found fault with was, that they had been greatly alter ed from what they were, and were no longer what they were intended to be when they were given as pensions to the parties, seeing they had be come indefinite in their amount, as their Voitle rose in proportion to the distress of the country. The revenue of these offices arose from fees paid into the Exchequer out of the money paid for different ser vices. Thus, out of the money issued for army extraordinaries, seven shillings and a fraction were paid per cent. for the _army extraordinaries, three shillings and nineponce. Other sums, which he mentioned, were paid on the Oidnance and Secret Service, and on var;ous heads ot expenditure. These offices had been first brought under the considerati on or the House, in the report of a Committee in 780, which was laid before that House in 1782. — At that period, in consequence of the extraordinary expenditure of the American war, it' was stated that heir revenue was no less than 70001. each. The fees which constituted their recenu in ordinary times of peace made t he salary of each Teller about 2,5001. It had since appeared to the House and the public, fro.n the report of a Committee in i 808„ that from the enormous expenditure in the present war with France, the fees of tl►ese officei had amounted to the enormous sum of twenty-three thousand pounds per annum and upwards, to each. Since that period, a great additional' expenditure had taken place, he believed to the .amount of seventeen or eighteem millions, and the fees of those offices must of course have increased in proportion by several thousands of pouncia.r He conceived he was fully jitstified in dwelling at some length on the amount of these lees when it wasseen that two officers annually derived from the public taxes d sum at least equal to the interest of a Million of money. Let any Geodeman look to the reMUneration which other pnblih. men lid received, and see what peciportion the salaries of these officers bore to such remttneration. It u ould be found that the 70001. per annum that had b-en given to Lord Nelson, the 40001. to Lord Wel lington, the 20001. to Earl St. Vincent, and all that had beem given to Lord Hutchinson, Sir R. Aber crombie, and certain other officers who had fought the battles of .their country, put all together, fell short by several thousands of what each of these Tellers of the Exchequer received. He wished the public to know what right these Tellers had to of fices producing so great a revenue. He thought ti(i man could doubt the propriety of reducing their fees down_to the standard by which the salaries of other public men are regulated. He might be told that these being the grant of the Crown were to be held, sacred; but he would contend that these grants are not like a grant of land from the Crown, or a grant of a portion of the Excise Revenue. Of such grants he would say nothing ; but he would contend, that offices of the nature of these sinecures were under the cuntroul of Parliament. Could any one d en y th e right of the House to alter them ? He should like to see Counsel for the two Noble Lords at their Bar, to tell the House what right these two• Noblemen had to live on the ruin of the country. He would like to hear what they could say of that sacred and indefeasible tight which was set up, and he should like to see how their arguments on this subjeft would . be received by the House. He then quoted a Re port signed by Mr. Not (now Sir Arthur Pignt) and others, which set forth the right of Parliament to reduce to a reasonable standard the emoluments of such offices. He maintained that if this was such a sacred property, that those two persons should be annually allowed to divide the interest of a million of money, raised out of the public taxes, between them, without its being noticed by Parliameur, no legislative At ought to infringe it. There passed, however, no session of Parliameot in which it was not repeatedly violated in the Bills that were passed. They had before the House, the other day, a Bill for granting an annuity of thirty-six thousand pounds to the Princesses. Or, annuities greater fees were paid to the Tellers than on any thing else ; and on that Bill, if a provision had not been made against it, each would have gained by it no less than 2001. , per annum for life. In cases of charity, and in a variety of instances, they were excluded from receiving their usual fees. Mr. Burke had brought in a B:11 to limit the vote for secret service to t 0,0001. This, if their rights were to be held so sacred that no al teration should be made to atrea them, was a Bill which they might have said had no right to pass, as the money allowed for secrot service had before 'been _ • unlimited, and there i might have been greater than they could possibly be afterwards. 13nt in addition to what he had said to prove that Parliament wai . - competent to make an alteration in these offices, he had to state . that an a6tual alteration had positively beetrmade. In they year 1710, in consequence of the expense of the atmy extrantdioaries having in creased_to the amount of three hundred thousand periods, the fees of the 1 ellers of the Exchequer were reduced trout five shillings per cent. to 3s. g - J. If then the right to these offices was not so sacred but an alteration could be made, in consequence of theartny extraordinaries amounting to three'hundred thousand pounds, he should like to know why, when the army extraordinartes caused an expendi ture of seven millions, a similar reduaion in the fees of the Tellers could not be made. He then recapi tulated his various argumenis, observing- that lie should not think it right to call on the House to say what ought to be the amount of the fees, but that his concluding resolution would be expressive of the right of Pailiament to confine those fees within bounds more conformable to the 'usual grants of pub lic money for public. services, and more consistent . . with the burthens to which the people were at the present period subject. He concluded by moving se,ven Resolutions, embodying the statements and opinions which were contained in his speech. first was, " That it appears to this House, that the two Tellerships of the Exchequer, now hcld by the Marquis of Buckingham and Earl Camden, are ottices performed entirely by deputy, and that the same were given to the said Marquis of Buck. Ingham and Earl Camden, on account merely of the profits resulting therefrom, and as a remuneration for the public services of their respedive fathers." Mr. P. MoORE seconded the motion. - The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER allowed, that the first resolution being a truism, might be affirmed without inconvenience, except ai to agree to it would imply that the House thought it neces sary to inquire into the subject at the present mc. meta. On that ground, 'he should move the previ ous question upon that and the five following Reso lutions, giving a decided preference to the last. This was a question on which the Houe ought to be jealous, lest feelings of interest on their part should influence their decision. The question was, first, whether the individuals possessing these offices under the grant of the Crown . , had, in virtue of that grant, a vested interest in the offices themselves ? and, secondly, whether that vested right could be interfered with by Rirliament ? The first point was not denied by the Honourable Mover. The of fice of Teller of the Exchequer was an ancient one, and the right of the Crow❑ to grant it was coeval with the existence of the Exchequer itself. The Honourable Gentleman allowed that a legal grant of the Crown did confer on any pro perty but that of office, as clear a right to the pus ' sessor to retain it as that held by the possessor of an estate. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) contended at considerable length, that property in offices ought not to be exempted from this princi ple ; but thesstrong part of the case was, wh.4 Par liament had done already with respect to those offices themselves. When, in the year 1782, Parliament, aware that the emoluments of those offices were considerably greater tha❑ it was supposed they would be at the time they were granted, no attempt whatever was made to reduce those emoluments, which were held to be a sacred right, but all the, proceedings of Parliament on the occasion, were prospective ; not half the advantage would be ob tained by the nation, even in the economical view of the subjea, by breaking in upon such rights as by maintaining the security of property, and denying its liability to that interference of Parliament, which being once exercised, Enigbt not soon be supped. Not only hi the case of the Tellerships of the EX chequer, but in all offices of a similar kind, in the ." Customs, in the Excise, &c. Parliament had ad:. hered to the prinCiple of • abstaining from teaching the emoluments of those offices during the lives of the individuals in whom they were vested. He should, therefore, think it his duty to move the pre vioos question on the first resolution of the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. PONSONBY maintained, that by the laws of England rio estate was better recognized or better prote'aed than the - bState of offices. This bad beed the opinion -of the greafeit lawyers. That the• State had power to interfere with thiS property he ad mitted, but its right to do so he utterly denied. If once it were admitted, that public necessity justified the State in interfering with vested tights, the prin ciple would know no bounds. It might be applied to reduce the emoluments which Bishops derived from their Sees. It might be applied to diminish the revenues of the Church in general. That principle, if .once allowed, would Stop no where but at the discretion of those who possessed the power of enforcing it. The offices in question were among those to which his reasoning applied. It was no answer to say that the emoluments were eno7 - - mous. That had nothing to do with the question of right. If it were supposed that any former agree ment tO diminish the fees weakened the right, let that-be the subjea of legal trial but it could not b determined by Parliament, which was bound t - abide by the usage of office., He was aware that what he had said might not be very popular, but the apprehension of incurring the censure of any man, or of any body of men, would never make him shrink from avowing sentiments which in his opi nion were, clearly favourable to the essential interests of the realm. Mr. BRAND agreed in the legality of the original grant ; but thought it very desirable in the present alarming state of the country to ascertain whether or not by any former diminution of the fees of these offices a precedent bad been estahlishtd, by which the House Might regulate its condUei.--ss , Under this impression, he declared it his intention of voting for the first six Resolutions, and of moving as an Amendment to the seventh, that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the subjea. Lord A. HAMILTON expressed the pain which he felt at cliff:Ting from his Right Hon. FriJnd ant him, but argued against the principle that the House had not a right to regulate the ernolo- • •- nrents of offices which were paid out of the public purse. Mr. LYTTLETON stated,, that if the early reso . , lotions should pass, be should then vtite for the .Anittndinent proposed by his Honourable Friend . (Mr. Brancll Mr. H. a HORNTON and Mr. VANSITTART each said a few words on the liability of the sums laid out in the reduction of the . National Debt to the fees in question. Mr. WHITBREAD, with all possible respea for his Right Hon. Friend, while he admitted the prin ciple 'maintained by him, denied the propriety of its ~application. He concurred with him, that it was impos-ible fur Parliament to interfere with a legal righ , ; but in the present case Parliament were en ti;led_to confine the emoluments w►thin proper li mits. Had the Crown the power to say to Parlia ment, " I have thought proper to make an i,fficer, and you must not only raise money for the public service, but you must also raise money to pay the officer whom I have made !" It - was evident, that when these offices were first granted, the prodi gious emoluments which they at present afforded, were nor, in the most remote degree, contemplated by any man. He was certainly prepared to vote all the Resolutions; but if it should appear to be the sense of the House, that a Committee ought to be appointed, he should vote for the amendment of his Hon. Friend. Mr. HORNER did not think that the appointment of any Committee was necessary to prove what ap peared to him to be an undoubted right. If he had had any hesitation on the subjed, the speech of his Right Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Pon soby) would have completely satisfied him. He cautioned the House against any interference with vested rights, and reminded them, that such an in terference had been one of the steps taken by those frenzied politicians in 'a neighbouring country to whom it was to be attributed, that that country had so long been the prey to anarchy, and every other description of horrors. ' Mr. BANKES admitted the right of the two Noble Lords was legal. Unquestionably the emoluments which they derived frau their offices, and which in creased with the increasing burdens of the people,, were much more considerable than could ever have been anticipated by the grantors. He recommended the Executive Government to endeavour to make some arrangements with the Noble Lords on the subjed. It that failed, he would by no means ad vise the House to exercise power in defiance of right. He concluded. with observing, that though the vested rights of individuals should be 1 , l rally construed, the House should be careful not to err upon the side of extravagance. Mr. BATHURST maintained, that unless Gentle men could make up their minds to do a , .v iy offices without regard to those rights,. they could not vote (or the motion. Mr. WILBERFORCE declared himself in favour of that mode of proceeding which would bring all the fads before them, and stigmatised the doing away of trusts without inquiry, as a shocking violation. Mr. TIERNEY said, that after the able manner in which the subject had been already discussed, he could not expect to influence the House more than it was at present ; but feeling a cot dial pariicipalioti in ihe sentiments expressed by his Right Honourable Friend, Mr. Ponsonby, he felt himself bound to take his share with him in the unpopularity which might attach to the avowal. He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman, Mr. Bankes, who had brought in a Bill of a more enlarged and general description, repect ing officers of this nature, could not possibly do more to defeat it in another place, than by voting sirialy and impartially for the preient motion. Such a vote would be,a practical contradiaion to the de claration held forth of respea for vested legal rights. He conceived with his Right Hon. Friend, that the Laws of England recognised a vested right in an office. The Duke of Richmond's interest in the duty upon coals, and many other cases would be affeaed by the decision, and though he lamcnted the excess of many grants, he could not touch the rights. If ft was deemed expedient to try the ques- The 1 I I \. - ~i~',~ .~ i