The Sun. — London, England, 1812-04-15 00:00:00

stated the reasons of the appointment ; end if no form of oath was adMinistered to the Private Secre tary of the Crown, neither was there auy to the Private Secretaries of the great Ministers of the Crown, who were equally connected with the pub lic, through whose hands the same description of papers passed, and whose office was equally confi dential. The present appointment was not that Of a fourth Secretary of .Staie, but of -an assistant to his Royal Highness. Pox his part he disclaimed the idea of being exonerated in the srelallest degree from his share in the responsibility of the Go vernment ; it was in fact nothing else but a re lief appointed by his Royal Highness to assist him in carrying on the busineSs of the country. This naturally brought him to the question, whether the. office was necessary or unnecessary, and he. • would allow, that if the necessity of it could not be made out, the appointment could not be justified. When they talked of King 'William and George the 1. and 11. they should remember, that the whole system of the. Coun►ry was different, that business was since accurnulated,and establishments increased,, that our army then was but a pigmy army, that our navy was.nothing in comparison with its present state, and that' the whole population was not trained to arms. At that time the Sovereign and the Ministers too might have discharged their duties with greater ease, for be night observe that Ministers were not then in the habit of attending the House to such late hours as modern practice rendered necessa ry. How,, under 'circumstances so dissimilar, any parallel could be atter s tipted to be dra cn, surprised him. L•roking to all the existing circumstances, could any one say that it would be possible for a Monarch of this country to discharge all the manual labour which would be necessary, without some assistance of this kind ? He was confident, that if his Itoyal Highness should determine to give up his mind from murning till night, nut on the great con templative and dignified business of the Govern ment, but to the lower toil of a private Secretary, to the mere manual labour of office, he never would be able to discharge effectually all that would be re _ . . quisite ; and the necessity, therefore, of the appoint ment as well as the constitutionality of it, appeare'd to hitn to stand upon clear and unshaken grounds. Ilhere was nothing in the appointment of Colonel I \VNlalion that would make him responsible for any ati ; and he would again repeat, that it would be impossible for the Sovereign to undo - take the greater and" more important functions of royalty, it he should resolve tci apply himself to the more subor dinate tasks. Upon all these grounds, he . hoped the Rouse would be satified that the Constitution was • pot entrenched, and that the refusal of the papers 'was not with a view to denying information, taut to the repressing that ulteriortneasore, which he Was persuaded the. House would not be disposed to adopt. Mr ELLIOT observed, that -the question before the House was one of those in which the merits of the individual wit° was the object of it, did not come under consideration, and therefore in point of faa the motion was direCted against-the appoint ment of a new office. With respect to the indivi, deal, be had not so much acquaintance with him as Other persons ha 4, but he had no hesitation in ad tbitting that lie \vas deserving of the appointment from all t? at he had heard of his character. As to the Illustrious Person conferring the appointment, _it! must again state', that it was perfealy natural for hite to be anxious to reward the services of a faith ' Ital. and confidential servant, for a faithful and con fidential servant was in truth a faithful friend. To reward such servants, therefore,. was in the cha racter of any person, in humbler life or in the more dignified station of Royalty, a great and distinguish- Tcl virtue. It was the genu,ne source of national, itrength. There was no quality which could ema bate in the mind of a Prince, that could so strongly %hew the charaeter of the person, and could fix him zn the hearts of the people, as rewarding long tried and steady' attachments. But in this instance his uyal Highness had been unfortunate in his choice_ the reward. There was a marked disiinction the cases of Colonel Taylor and the present. His Vaiesty had never called for -assistance, until by the aisqtation of Providence lie was deprived of the tfiiy to assist himself. Now in the present the Prince had none of those infirmities w.rlieh prevented him from teansatling the bu t:fleas himself. Colonel Taylor was indubitably e hand and eyes of the Sovereign, end it was due t 0 him to state that he discharged- the duties of his illation with integrity, 'prudence and -reserve.— were was not the least shadow of imputation tdinst his conduct. He had always thought the ;PPointment of that. Gentleman _a responsible one, bki he [mist take blame to himself for not having f.°l;lecled to it. Circunistances, however, had, called and the reason he had not questioned-the le b4'itY of it was, that the situation of the Monarch threw an air of sanaity about it, which prevented i b(11 from iaterfering—(Hear, hear ! from the Ali side)—that cheer, Mr. E. observed, for the future would serve as a lesson not only to himself, b rtlt, he trusted, 'Wall his Friends.—(Hear, hear! jeated by the Opposition).—He hoped ,that %a hat- Pet might he the situation of circumstances, deli ileac)? would not induce them again to yield to-any PPointnient without due consideration of its con • .4Nuelices. If the duties of the department wete trea,, the House ought to be informed of it. Was 4'14 duiv of the Private Secretary to take' the sense 't)f .the Faecul;ye Government upon all matters of °1 business, and ct;Dvey it to the different Officers ()I the Government ? Were the duties of these Of ,cers so great, that they could not go through i'i "e(ll3' If so., let them ask assistance, and let a fourth pt. "eretary be appointed, and he would vote for the 4PPointinent, and that he should be a Member of Parliament. But in coming to that conclusion,' he stopped in limine, because there was no case h'ade out on which to decide. The Ministers .were rtind to sheer that there was much public busi, "NI to transact for this private Secretary. If they ~°uld satisfy the House on that point, then private ""shess was no reason for the appointment, for the b( aa of folding up papers and putting them in .e* did nut require the. aid cf. a Privy Counsel,. Zr with a salary of 20001. a year. It was fair, , ,"`erefote, to the individual, tl.at he should be 11Prise I of the fa& ; if he was" not so ap-. I.li,cd, he was treated with gteat.iciustice.'; canting ''"111 whatever quarhr papers might come, he was IVo I fiont the .31:uisterial side.) l"e did not know the situation of the Un r Secretaries of State, of the Secretary of the Treasury, and similar situations were Gazette% or whether another office more i.nportant was, he mead the Secretary to the Lord Lieu:en:lnt ot -Ire land. On these 'grounds he should object tv the appointment, until information on tl Inch he coup decide was before the House, and should therefore vote for the motion of his Honourable and Learned Friend. ' r The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER agreed with the Right Honourable Gentlemen (Mr., Elliot) that the question did not come under consideration as personally affecting .the individual who was the objed of it, but was to be considered on the grounds of public expediency, and of public law. On these grounds he shotild examine the question. The cha akier which the Right Honourable Gentleman had given of Colonel M'Mahon, as an old and faithful servant, was not more true than it was honourable to the person on whom it was bestowed. But he must•again state, that those circumstances would not afford justification for the creation of a 'place which in its nature was illegal And unconstitutional, for, so the Right Honourable Gentleman had stated it to be. The reward of faithful set vices was cotunien dable in every one—a proper attachment to any . person for faithful services was correti, and augured well of the person, whoever be might be, that con ferred a favour. But the Right Honourable Gentle man'a sentiments on this subject seemed to be re ceived by his friends with a something more than met the eye. Did he mean to say that private at-• tachments should be the ground of selection for pub lic services?---Was it constitutiooal doctrine to con tend, that private friendships. were tasupersede the public interest ?.—Ditt he mean to insinuate that the moment his Royal Highness succeeded to the Go vernment, he was 4lien to lead the head of the party ?—lt that ,was his meaning when heaalked about rewarding private friendships (tor that insi nuation was cheered), a sentiment more inimical to the constitution could notbe uttered—it was con netted with, an aristrocratical confederacy, and brought forth it) Supporeof constitutional principles in the most extraordinary way he bad ever Ireard.-,-- If the Right Honourable Gentleman did nat .mean any such insinuations, he must ask his parden for the suppoaision. With respect to the great consti tutional question; the Hon. Gentlemen co'nsidered themselves bound to stand forth as the champions of that constitution,aand contend thaartie Sovereign on the Throne was not entitlea,to have a Private Secre taiy.--The Right Hon. Geetlemau seemed to think, too, that there was tio difficulty in grant itta the mo tion, conceiving that the appointment was illegal and unconstitutional, and therefore called, for , the paper, in order that the House might censure the advisers of the .appointment. If the paper was to famish the mere details of what Ate Private Secre tary should read, and what he should not read ; what he should write, and what be should not write, then a line of ditty was chalked oat, that the House might be enabled to judge of the fad. But the question was, whether this line of duty would be so defined by the instrument, as to be. within the description of a legal and constitutional office? If it was-so, that would appear on the s:atement,_and those who thought the appointment illegal, would vote for the paper. BA there was no dispute about . the fad, for the paper would not furnish an) , evi tlence. The proper mode of treating the question, was to take it up onahe il'egality of the appoint. ment, with a view to famish evidence for ulterior punishment. Now U was considered, .by those ob.. Jeding to the appaintment, that it is an_ unconsti tutional b':cause it was a new office. But th e Hon. Gentleman would not deny the authority of Queen Anne, who passed an Act recognizing th e appointment of new • offices, it necessary, w t a o the Crown. He should deny, however, that it was a new office : the 'appointment of Coi• Taylor just as illegal and unconstitutional as the present. When the Right Honourable Gentleman took blame to himself for not having objected to that appointment, he (Mr. P.) had cheered him. He apprehended, ,that if the act was an unlawful and unconstitutional one, those persons in power when Col. Taylor was appointed, should have stated .their reasons then, and not have remained silent. But he must con tend, that the authority of Parliament constituted its legality. They did, not when in cffice conceive it necessary to question the legality,' but now they viewed it in a new light, and contended that they were compelled to admit its legality under the peculiar circumstances in watch 'they were placed. The Right Honourable Gentleman had maintained that the Private Secretary was the organ of the'Executive. He must deny that asser tion. Col. M‘Mahon could not,in his official cape city cominunjcate ibe pleasure of the,Pi ince Regent in any other way than by taking upon himself the responsibility. How could that responsibility arise, for the office was not a State office ?, it was merely an office of accommodation and assistance Wattle Sovereign; who could not perform the business which he had to do without 'such assistance. The Tnanagernent of the papers necessary for his Royal Highness's examination was become laborious; they came not merely from one office, but from all the offices in the Government. When it was considered the vast influx of papers which must be produced, _for the consideration of the Prince Regent---asoine• from their nature to be postponed, others immedi ately considered, and all arranged, the House would see that it required considerable attention, and the discharge of manual labour. The great mass of papers was of itself a consideration for the appoint -merit. It had been sail that his Majesty fled done the whole of the business for 40 years, laborious as it was; that was true, and it was astonishing that he was enabled to do it ; but the House would re coiled the' difference between George the Third and the Prince Regent. His Majesty came to the Throne at a time of life when he was peculiarly fit ted for his station ; he had all the vigour of youth, and the' aptitude for business; years of attention and labour induced, ,the habits of business; and though, when he ascended the Throne, the labour Was trifling in comparison, yet his habits were early formed, and he was initiated into a facility of disposing of business which grew with his years What was the'case now ? The Prince Regent was at an advanced period of life, not accustomed to bthiness ; besides the. pressure was considerably greater since the unfortunate malady which afflicted our. beloved Sovereign. Now, with respec't to the motion itself, he could not conceive, why it had been brought forward, unless from a disposition to com plain, for the very introduttion of the tnotioo, on their own snewing, had exhibijed a most extraor d;nary fa6l, the, absence of real and substantial proof for the prodUCtion of the papers; for never way there shewn a greater proof of poverty of com plaint; or the impossibility of attaching to it the importance of a great constitutional question. It ,had been said, that the appointment of Colonel AltiVlahon was - as the new Secretary of the,Cabinet i behind the Cabinet. What superior or over-ruling influence, ot which 'so much had been heard, there was behind the Throne, he did not know; but did any one person actually believe that such influence existed ? Was- Colonel M,'Mahon then that per son ?---.(No, no, front, the Opposition.) But it was' said by the Gentlemen oppwite, that he was the instrument to carry into etfet the wishes and plea sure of the Head of the Executive Government. — Such assertion might be very well to turn a para graph in a newspaper, in order to keep alive the impression unfavourable to Government, which at all times Opposition are in the practice of making against the existing Government. He trusted the House Would not be disposed to see in the appoint ment any thing either illegal . or unconstitutional,. and theretbre that they- would not accede to the motion. • Mr. ELLIOT made a few- observations in explana tion in respell to personal, friendships. • • Mr. PONSONBY conceives that his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Elliott), in alluding to private 'friend ships, did not mean ..to say that the person exercis ing' die SoVereign Power was aduated in ctroOsing his servants from that motive. 'He trusted such .would never be the case in this 'country: He was convinced that the Princeeßegent was incapaßle of being swayed by any such motives in his, choice. If any such advice wai,given, he knew that the advisers would incur the'disfavour of him to whom it was given. The choice of the Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Perceval) was a strong instance to the contrary. If he were to judge as the case stood at present, uninformed as'he 'was, he should say that the apppointment was doubtful in a constitutional point of view. If the nature of the Office described by the Right Hon. Gentleman was as he had stated, and all the official business is to pitss through the private Secretary, then, in his opinion, within a very short period in the history of this country, the Private Secretary would become the Prime Minister. Now, as to the office, it was true that his late Ma jesty employed Colonel Taylor because as he could not, unfortunately, write himself, his inforrelation called for aid ; but was his Royal Highness incapa ble„ol-business ?' It had been said that the public business was so much increased since the accession, that it was impossible for the Sovereign to _discharge it without assistance. - Did the Right Honourable Gentleman forget when the King came to the Throne, that there was a very great pressirre of busi ness, that the Country was in the midst'of a seten years war ; that the foreign correspondence was at that time five times greater than now ? - Yet without the benefit of experience,. the youthful Sovereign was able to transact all the busroess of the nation. But it was evident, from what bad been stated, that the office iwas to be a perma nent one. The Hotase would, upon reflection, see, in what a situation future Monarchs might be placed who might 'not be of mature age, and Inca panic ot judging. the Private Secretary have no influence on the Government ? Would- not a Sovereign rest him or .herself a little, upon the advice of the Secretary ? Would not many of the communications made to the other part ot the Go vernment from the Sovereign be the result of the ,opinions or wishes of the Secretary ? It was not in the nature of things, but that it should be so, 'and therefore he would care to be any thing but the Mtuister of the Crown,. a person possessing the greatest influence in ihe country. Much had been said of exterior and interior Cabinets ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman had said, that it was a kin\cl of cant used by Opposition, to say that the servants of the Crown were not chOSeu by the spontanemis wish of the Sovereign, but by the influence of other persons. This - might be the language of official men, but .had the Right Honourable 'Gentleman read elle History of England foil the last century ? If he. had, would he ellen say there was no such thing as secret influence ? Was it cant ? The Right Hon. Gentlemen knew well it was not. For this reason he wished to see the paperconstituting theap pointment. The Rt. Hon. Gent. had treated slight the assertion of his Hon. Friend respecting the ob ligati"on of CO. M`Mehon as a Privy Counsellor to give his advice to his' Sovereign ; but if he would re fled, he would not think the assertion so The . Noble Lord hadialked of the necessity of get ting the Regent' Ilona under the load of papers which covered his shoulders, like another Atlas ; but if the Prince was that Atlas, lie 'was sure the Colonel was not a Hercules, and he might be in the situation of the Tile of the Lap-doss and the Cat, and the Bowl of Milk—the Colonel might be suf forated under reams of official papers. But the sobjed was too serious for ridtcule, and he should vote for the motion of his -Hon, Friend.' Mr. Secretary RYDER telt it iiecessat y to `rescue his Right Honourable Friend from the species of misconception which . the Right Honourable Gen tlen4nin had prat on his speech. He defended the appointment, on the ground of precedent, for if it was unconstitutional, so was the appointment . of Colonel Taylor. The Right Hon. Secretary went over the same grounds taken by his Right Hon. Frienzls. Mr. LAMB trusted the House would not forget. all the old constitutional principles. The present was a case in which censure was imputable to those per sons advising the appointment. From the JUdicial department,- to the whole of the Ministerial depatt ments, the nui9fers were the Secretaries: it was their duty to communicate with the Sovereign.— What were the dutiek of his office ? It he was the organ of communication from all the departments 01 the State, that circumstance must give him great powers. The Hon. Gent. said that great 'dangers might arise from entrusting to an °dicer of this de scriptiotk too much power ; his duty ought to be defined. For might not he, if he had to yead the papers which it was necessary for him to lay before . the Sovereign, give his advice, and might not, that advice sometimes have effeet ? He trusted, upon Constitutional principles, that-an alteration of such importance would not be hazatdeol without due con sideration. Amongst all,the bad signs of the times, apathy to these appointments was the worst.- Mr. CALCRAFT hoped that the apathy which the Hon. Gentleman dreaded, did not , in reality exist, for the_House . was periettly alive to the interests of the country. He could not see any thing in the state of things 'to cause alarm. There was the pre cedent of Colonel Taylor, who had filled the office for seven years, not only without blame, but in the most pratsew , rthy manner, and yet because a simi lar appointment was made, all these alarms were created. He wished Gentlemen would exercise a little common plain sense. What was done by C.l. Taylor was to be done by Col. M'Mahon. He was to transaa the busintss of arranging the pap ‘rs, but not to detract t 1 - roe. official responsibility, • How the appointment conld - ne said to be unconstitutional he did dot know. He saw no just grounds stated for , inducing the House to grant the motion, and should therefore Vote against it. Mr. WHITBREAD said this was indeed a new era,. in which we are doomed to,lose the friends of our early public life. Accustaned as he had been to the voice of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Calcraft), sop ported as he had been by his opieions and hip vote, .he should have been astooished when he came to the House this night and heard him again, to find too •that he had.quitted his early friendship, that-he had hailed the new era. •He should have been deceived, and before he entered the House, would have betted any wager that hiS Hon. Friend, whom he had heard so eloquent'on former occasions, was now ,support ing his old - and early friends ; but how much would; he have been deceived ! There was, he said, no analogy bet Ween the case of Col. Taylor and Col. - M‘Mahon—the former was not a privy counsellor nor a member of Parliament—he was introduced at a time when the infirmities of the 'king required as sistance. "A contrast had: been drawn as to the ha bits of one person at the head of the executive, and the other. No such thing ; the Noble Lord had introduced a good image into his speech, when de scribing the duties of the Officer, in saying that ,the Colonel's duties were to dig the Regent from under - a file of Papers. But then, the Regent was to con sult with the Colonel. Was it everin,tended that a consultation should be held with Colonel Taylor ?---. Was ke not 'the mere conduit of communication between the Monarch and his Ministers ! Btu then he had duties .of great importance to perform.--r What were these great duties ? Why the giving him power over the.fortnnes of then. If his situa tion was nothing more than as the Noble Lord term ed it, " the Seleaor of papers," that, was empower ing him with controul of a very high nature, for he might recommend such persons as be chose ; lie ,might seleci such papers as he thought fit; M short he was placed in the charaeler of a .responsible ad, viser. If the faet is nut so, why was the public burthened with an Officer holding a place of 20001. a year, and perforiniug duties that a common scr• rant might perform ) He denied that there had been . any great accumulation -of Royal 'busi ness; and • alluding to the early friends of the Prince, he obserived, that any insinuAtions re. specting them, could not apply to him, as he had not had the honour to be classed among ihern, and of course disclaimed the right to be so called. It. might be supposed, during the private lif of iheil his.tious individual to wh(iin he alluded, that there were predilect;ons in his mind, because the grounds . for such a supposition hari been recorded and au thetricated. But the moment that that private lifii ceases}, Parliament and -the Ceunrry werehoued to Consider the Regent as speaking only by his Mini sters. 'He hoped that the motion would be agreed to, and that the Gentlemen opposite would lac beaten on the diViiion. Mr. WILBERFORCE declared,. that with one ex ception, there could not, in his opinion, be a more unobjectionable appointment than tbat which was the subjed of the present discussion. By the gene ral there was a greater weight of busin6s on the, Sovereign at the present day, than a: any former period. It any one voted against the motion, except on the conviCtion that there had been a great increase in public business, that per son's view of the subject was very different from his. The situation of Private Secretary was not one of 'responsibility, neither did it encroach on the province of any Minister of the Crown. The Mi r isters of the Crown would, still be the legal and constitutional organs. through which all the public business' must be transaded ; and they would - be liable to the same responsibility after this ap pointment as before it. The necessity of a Private Secretary to the ,Prince was obvious. As a precedent it , was not dangerous. It was indis pensable. Even his present Majesty, the most.la ! borious Prince who had ever filled the British Throne, haJ, towards the letter part of his reign, been al most overwhelmed with public business. At the same time, the publicity which the proceeding that bad been adopted in preference gave to the appoint ment; was a kind of security against any secret. in fluence. As he was on the subject of secret in• fluence, he would mention to the*House, that he once had a conversation with a Noble Lord, now, no more (Lord North), who, in a former part of his life, had spoken of an influence behind tho Throne, greater than the Throne itself; and that on his questioning that Noble • Lord with iesped. to,his then opinion on ti eexistence of such influence, his Lordship said that he did not believe that any such existed. He should have no• hesitation .in voting against the motion, because to rote for it would be to' vote for the.reversal of the appointment that had been made. Mr. WHITBREAD explairled. Lord EOLLESTON E expressed his anxiety to know the fundions of the Private Secretary to the Regent; and contended that the appointment of Colonel Taylor to be Private Secretary to his Majesty was by no means a parallel case,. Mr. MA It ft YATT observed, that many of our Com manders on Foreign Stations had no less than three Private Secretaries, 'and that surely the Prince Re gent must stand in need of one: Considering this to be a party, and not . a constitutional question, he should certainly vote against the motion. Mr. C. ADAMS contrasted the present question with that on which the House had determined, not to grant the salary to Colonel MsMa!)on as Pay master of the Widows Pensions, and defended the consistency of those who, although they voted against that grant,. would vote against the present motion. Mr. TIERNEY denied that there was Such an in 4 crease of public business pressing on the Regent, as Wai asserted. He argued at some length in sup port of the motion, and implored those who - thought the House had gained some popularity by refusin4 i J assent to thu tortner appoinuneta of Col. M'Aliihon