The Sun. — London, England, 1852-03-17 00:00:00

fourtt V2lTifton IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS• The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes after Twelve o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. BATESON took the oaths and his seat, on his re election for Londonderry. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time:— Abbey Tintern and Bigswear Roads. Battle and Robertsbridge Road. Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway (No. 3). Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway (No. 4). Shields and Morpeth Roads. Someraetshire Central Railway. Southam to Kineton Road. Thetford Fen District Drainage. Torquay Market and Slaughter-houses. PETITIONS. Mr. B. DENISON presented a petition from Leeds in favour of the Pharmacy Bill. Mr. MILES presented a petition from a place in Somersetshire against the Maynooth grant. Similar petitions were presented by Mr. T. DuNcomnE, and by Mr. BOUTERIE from a place in Scotland. Mr. KERSHAW presented a petition from Stockport in favour of secular education. Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a petition from the county of Lincoln against the post-horse duty. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Rochdale in favour of the Pharmacy Bill. Similar petitions were presented from the metropolis by Lord Dudley Stuart and Mr. Wakley; by Mr. W. Patten from Burnley, Lancashire; by Mr. Hindley from Hants; and by Mr. W. Williams from Walworth. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from Finsbury, praying for the compulsory enfranchisement of copy holds. Mr. GEORGE THOMPSON presented a petition from females residing in Sheffield against the Militia Bill. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the corpora tion of Manchester against the Manchester and Salford Education Bill; also several other petitions from Man chester, and one from an educational society in London, to the sane effect. Mr. ADDERLEY presented a petition from the municipality of Cape Town, complaining that the local Government had delayed the introduction of the new constitution, and praying that steps may be taken to carry the constitution into effect as soon as possible. Mr. PIGOTT presented a petition from Reading, against the post-horse duty; also one from the same place, in favour of the Pharmacy Bill. MANCHESTER AND SALFORD EDUCATION BILL. Mr. BROTHERTON, on moving the second reading of this Bill, said as he was anxious that all persons should be fairly heard, he did not object to the petitions which had been presented; but he reminded the House that they ought to have been submitted to the Private Bill-office.—(Hear.) He would not delay the House by expatiating on the importance of education, for it was admitted on all hands that it was necessary to extend education in the country, but he would frankly state the origin of the Bill and the circumstances in which it was placed. There were three parties in the towns of Manchester and Salford anxious to promote the cause of education; and they differed as to the best means of accomplishing that object —one party being for religious education, another for secular educa tion, and a third for voluntary education. The Bill was supported by a very large number of rate payers. No less than 40,000 rate-payers in the two townships had signed petitions in favour of the measure. The Town Council of Man chester had, howeeer, thrown out the Bill by a ma jerity of 32 to 2e, out the Town Council of Salford had approved of it by a majority of 17 to 14. The majority of 17 paid 9,243/. in local rates, and the mi nority only 1,826/., showing clearly that the feeling of the rate-payers was in favour of taxing themselves for the purposes of education. It had been objected that this was more of a public than a pri vet® Bail, but the promoters had despairsd of seeing a general measure passed applicable to the whole king dom, and the necessity for education in Manchester and Salford was so great that they deemed it advisable to propose a scheme of their own, which would not only not infringe upon the consciences of any, but be gene rally acceptable to the ratepayers. If the House agreed to the second reading, the Bill might be referred to a Select Committee, or, when the report was brought up, it might be submitted to a Committee of the whole House, and then treated in all respects as a public Bill.—(Hear.) He considered that the towns of Manchester and Salford had done themselves immortal honour in setting so noble an example to the kingdom, and of showing that they sincerely desired to promote education.—(Cheers.) All they wished was a system of education suitable for the working classes, supported by local rates, and under local management. The amount of remuneration to be given under the Bill de pended entirely upon the number of scholars, the prin ciple being to pay in proportion to the work done. The Hon. Member concluded by moving the second reading of the Bill. Mr. M. GIBSON said he intended to take a rather unusual but not an irregular course with regard to the Bill. He meant to in ,:3 an amendment, to leave out all the words aftsr the word " that," for the purpose of adding a resolution, to this effect—" That a Select Com mittee be appointed to inquire into the state of education in the municipal boroughs of Manchester and Salford, and adjoining townships, and to ascertain whether it is advisable to make any further proposition, and in what manner, for the education of the inhabitants within such boroughs and townships, by means of local rates to be raised within the same." He made this amendment, because the measure, as a private Bill, was extraordinary. It was, no doubt, tech nically within the rules of the House. It possessed one peculiar distinctive character of a private Bill —viz., that it was limited in application to par ticular parties and to a particular locality —and persons who wished to legislate iu that way might, undoubtedly, proceed with such a Bill as a private Bill. But he hoped to have the Speaker's ap proval of a different view of the question. It had been the object of the House, for some time past, to limit the number of objects fur which special applications were made for private Bills ; and it had passed general and comprehensive laws of which particular localities could avail themselves by complying with the conditions which they set out. Now, if education was made one of the objects for which spe cial applications were to be made, such a course would nut be consistent with the past proceedings of the House. —(Hear ) If every town in England applied fur its own particular Education Bill, there would con stantly he revived religious subjects which would lead to Prolonged discussions iu the House. The reasonable way to deal with the question of education was for Parlia ment to decide on the general principles of a measure op. plieable to the whole community, and then to show particular ft loc a li t i es to ava il themselves of that measure in the public policy as that of sanctioning the formation of free school s for secular education, supported by local rates, without a preliminary Parliamentary inquiry, was never attempted before, and he asked the House not to accede to SO novel a principle until such as • inquiry had bsen instituted. This was a measur e ti lte d • g far more than the ques tion of levying 1,e4.1 rate„ fair the purpose of education; it involved the great principle how children should be educated, whether ir, thePetaa.!f how children should be educated, whether ju the Catholic or Protestant reli gion, and upon titeroi Oa the corporation of Salford or Manch had yet pronounced e p' - would have in reference (Hear, hear) There was one neduen on whatever, chester for :: tri s a ttßilltimicayd, except it tribute to the ra'es—(A laugh)._ ptirauivisblo'ndyoininiMona.—n_ to the Romeo Catholics, they c 'led only avail themselves of the provisions of the Bill by allowing the authorised version of thu Sctiptures to be used in their schools._ (Hear, bear.) It was not necessary for him to go through all the previsions of the Bill, because that tee s a bubj,,et which ought to be left to the c e nsideration of t h e cow _ mittee--(Hear, hear.) Ho admit ted tha t the pro moters of this meet .ure wire deserving of gr eat credit for th e trouttle and expense ‘r hieta th ey had brought to the service of this mementeus question, aid he should be sorry if their efforts ulti mately produced no legoilative results, but many , disagreeable cons e q uences wou ld b e s pared to them It the House would only adopt the course which he re commenited.—(l.lear, hear.) It was frem no hostility to a plan of supporting education out of local rates that he moved this amendment, it was not in the spirit of op posing rating for education that he nom pro posed this course, but in the present state of public affairs it was hopeless to think the promoters could succeed in carrying their Bill this session.— (Hear, hear.) It was, therefore, with the view of en abling them to husband their funds to be used in the future that he proposed this second course of disposing of the question now.—(Hear, hear.) Let not time House be led away by the p e ti t i ons which had been presented on the subject of this Bill, because many parties had signed those petitions under the erroneous impression that they were signing petition s i n savour o f rat i ona l education.—(Hear, hear.) The niej , srity of the people were anxious tor a Parlia mentary inquiry on the subject of tnia Bill—nothing more; and he hoped the House would not sanction the principle which the Bill contained, but agree at once to the plan which h.- had suggested. di M r . RO EBUCK seconded the amendment, hut h e so upon a much narrower ground than that which had induced his Right Hon. Friend to propose it. He objected to the Bill being considered in the light of e private Bill; it was fer too extensive to be placed in that category; but if technically it was a private Bill, he should be ni se i to hear some one draw the line shear, ere a Btll ceated to partake ofprivate bh This he eoatended was e private - rscter.—(il hear.) he insisted that it a o s ti Q g o httiJht Bill at ale Elio! theref ore stopped in limine.—(Hear, h eir) Great public prin cntereiples st were but i actu nvol a ve lly embracedd in this Bill; it in vo l ved no private tee great, w id e quest i on i, of national education and religious prejudice, and he was at a loss to understand how the Government could allow it to go on 83 5 private Bill.—(Hear, b ear.) Mr. WALPOLE wished to state the individual e l feWSPlWKlthice he entertained upon the subject of th e ( - 4sert' e- : ee the coarse which ho desired th,,,,, , .....„ „ reuse to o. a t • _ t e: le , , s 7 lth,( ar, hear ) Niue credit was d ile to i i, - 44..., , 4 11 *`, P l'tfih re of the Bill, no t only for endeavourin / !e t * 4 lfe o te e.. 1 education for the people of Ainng be read a A h ,i etetet -teehe,e: • t for founding their scheme, not up*tei C i s ''' pthe '&l 7% -... tiSttleibti e r. but a religious basis.—(Hear, hear.) fi e modifications -- - 57r,_=-I- - ;--ftpoughr, wever, that the Bill could not tu i -----.,' leatied time, though ' with some slight na he 14 boulcfiee no objection to the adoption of the auleadolent. ' Lieutenant -Colonel BOYLE presented a petition from Frame to a similar effect. Mr. J. BELL , i n moving the second reading of the Bill, presentee o petition from the President and Coun cil of the Royal College of Surgeons in favour o f it ; also a pet i tion to the same effect from the principal:me: cheat men of the metropolis. This last petitio n i u parti cular, he thought, would remove the objection which had er beenunora(ised by the Lion. Memb er f or Montrose, and otla ceesity for tuerable Member s , th a t t h ere was no ne physiciau,s h Bill. Formerly the compounding of apothecaries; p r escriptions had been performed by rn, e n t when th that body had been transformed into medical men, Several eft a , duty had been taken up by the net ~,,tttrthsrhad been made to amalgamate this body with sc ished body, butit was round im possible, and ultiely th s e o Y e were termed by royal charter into the Pharmaceutical had at present no power s 10 Prevent persons assuming the name and functions for such an important thine Bill to render it unlaw abilities and education req_ duty. It was proposed by ful f or any person for the futur e to assumehout the h profession of a pharmaceutical chemist , i o certificate _a a ving gone through a certain examination, and re ce i ve , andt there terfere of fitness. It was not, however, prop osed of any person s with the vested interests a clause in it exempting all persons who had s i cced was A embarked in the business. It was not his intention either to interfere with the medical profession, and there was another clause which e xempted that body from the operation of the Bill.— ( u ettr. .) The Bill was con fi ne d ent i re ly to chemists and drug.. gists, who were the persons who dispensed medical pre scriptions without belonging to the medical profession, or acting under the authority of any recognised body. '.Cho penal clauses of the Bill wore not of a stringent nature, m fact their were mild prohibitions against any person assuming the name of a pharma ceutical chemist without proper authority, and the Bill itself was a guarantee to the public that all persons belonging to the body were properly quali fied to discharge their duties. He was aware that ob jections would be offered to the Bill, the first of which was that it would raise an obstruction to medical reform. Now, the distinguishing feature of the measure was that it had no relation whatever to the medical body, and that while dealing only with chemists and druggists, it left the medical body entirely at liberty to make what regulations they pleased to meet the alterations which would be made. The second objection was, that too much power was left in the hands of the Pharmaceutical Society, en d i t was said, that the Secretary of State ought to have a super vision over all the bye-laws of the society, and that none should become valid without; his sanction. Th e Bin which he had introduced last session had contained such a provision; but the then Secretary of State showed such a THE SUN, --(Hear, hear.) He did not agree with those who declared that thi s was not a private Bill, for, according to the definition of the stand ing orders, this wsis essentially a private Bill. —(Hear, hear.) But he did not object to the Bill upon the ground of its not being a strictly private Bill, but because it p ropose d i n a pr i vate shape to d ea l with a great public questi on , an d if it were a ll owe d to pass it might be made a dangerous precedent.—(Hear, hear.) There were four g reat p r i nc ipl es i nvo l ve d in ibis Bill: the first would be found in th e 64th c l a use, which proposed to levy a rate, the second, in clauses 29 and 31, which . would make all schools free, and specified the system of education to be a d o pt e d, th e third, in clause 69, which gave the rate-payers power to appropriate the rate to the schools, but not to dispose of the surplus if there should happen to be any, while, in clauses 75, 76, and 85, provision was made that the aat'aorised version of the Scriptures only should be used in these schools.—(Hear, hear.) Now, these were four great principles, and before the House could be called upon to affirm them, they ought to b e we ll dis cussed and considered in Committee.--(Hear, hear.) For instance, he doubted the expediency of removing the responsibility from a parent of providing for the educatio n o f his child, while with regard to the provision making the schools free, he put it to the House whether that was a principle which it ought to assent to without a great public discussion.—(Hear, hear.) The other two prin ciples, if they were adopted, would introduce all the grievances of the church-rate without the necessity for it. At present church-rates pressed heavily upon some classes, and the third principle would only tend to increase the evil.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the last principle of this Bill, ho was firmly convinced that may education to be established by law should be based upon religion, and so far therefore he was fa vourable to the last principle, but seeing that none of these p r i nc i p l es oug h t to b e adopted without previous discussion, he felt that the best course to be adopted was to re f er no t t h e Bill , b ut t h e w h ole question, to the consideration of the Select Committee.—(Hear.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought this course was the best the House could adopt.—(Hoar, hear.) He did not agree with all that the last speaker had said, but he did agree with muc h o f i t , an d h e concurre d with him that it would be better to make this a public rather than a private question.—(Hear, hear.) It was of the utmost importance that questions of education should b . e restricted to public and not suffered to be embr ac ed in private Bills.—(Hear, hear.) Looking at all the cir cumstances of the case, however, he thought this Bill might have been read a second time and referred to a Select Committee, provided it was afterwards to be considered in a Committee of the whole House, but as the matter now stood he felt that the better course was to pass the amendment.—(Hear, hear.) Had this been simply a question of whether the Bill should pass or not, he certainly should have voted for the se cond reading, but those who resisted the measure did not desire to carry th e i r oppos i t i on to the extent of negativing the principle of the Bill, but they simply wished that the Bill should be framed upon a more extended basis, and to that suggestion he could not have the slight est o bj ect i on.—(Hear, hear.) He agreed with the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite that some of the principles of the Bill, if ! adopted, would seriously interfere with many of our schools that were now maintained upon the voluntary principle, but some proviso might be introdaced into the Bill which should meet that case.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the last principle of the Bill, he felt the diffi culty of deciding upon some religious system of educa tion in which all parties could agree, but he thought it might be provided that the children of Roman Catholics should be exempted from attending the religious department of the schools. It would be unjust to the Catholic and to the Jew to compel them to contribute towards the support of a school which imposed such duties upon their children as they could not con scientiously perform, and he saw no differ ence between forcing a Roman Catholic to read the Old Testament or forcing a J ew to conf i ne himself to the New.—(Hear, hear.) But these were points of detail which must be left f or t h e consideration of the Select Committee. And aga i n t h anking these who had brought this Bill forward, he concluded by re commending the House to agree to the amendment without any modification 'whatever.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. CARDWELL rose to answer the appeal which bad been made to him by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. Though he had not been intrusted with the conduct of this Bill, he still had t a k en great interest in it. If the promoters of the Bill reaped no further reward for their laborious exertions than the present discussion, their meritorious exertions would have been fully rewarded. They were much indebted to the Right Hon. Gentle man the Secretary of State for the Home Departm en t, and the Noble Lord the late Prime Minister, for the light which they had thrown on this subject. They were all agreed that the Bill should be referred to a Select Committee, and that the subject should have a full and fair inquiry. 'The Bill in the mean time was to rest at its present stage; and he was quite prepa re d to say t h at the House was in a position at present to agree to the principle of the Bill ; and the prom o t ers of it were not at all likely to seek to attain from the course which it was now proposed to take any surreptitious acknowledgment of that nature. The fullest justice had been done to the Bill, and to the merits of the people of Manchester in seeking to obtain for themselves some settled and effica cious scheme of education. There ought, therefore, to be no heartburnings on the subject, and he hoped that all would unite in agreeing in the expediency of the course now paraued. Mr. W. PATTEN thought it would be a wise course for the promoters of this Bill to accede to the proposi tion which had been made to them; but at the same time he must say that the efforts of the promoters of the Bill were certainly nut in such a good train for obtaining the desired result now as they had before been. The promoters of the . Bill had not th e s li g h test o bj ection to a full and fair enquiry, but he thought that some pro vision ought to be taken that the opponents, as well as the promoters of the Bill, should not be put to any ex pense in appearing before a Committee. Mr. BROTHERTON had great pleasure in acceding to the proposition which had be en ma d e , an d he would ask that the second reading of the Bill be deferred until this day six months. Sir R. H. INGLIS said that the doctrine which he held was that the education of the country was vested in the Church established by the State, and nothing he had heard had induced him to depart from that opinion. The Noble Lord the late Prime Minister had laid it down as his opinion that all education ought to be religious, and he (Sir R. Inglis) thought that if the country were to be taxed for th e purpose of affording religious education to the people, it ought to be an edu cation in accordance with the religion established and recognised by the State. Mr. FOX agreed that if money was to be raised by taxation for the purpose of inculcating religious educa tion it ought to be in accordance with the religion of the Church, but that was not the principle of the Bill. He agreed that en inquiry so general and universal as it was pr oposed to be would b e o f no use. With regard to the Billitself he regr e tt e d th at i t did not appear to provide any improvement iu the quality of education as well as the quantity. It was well known that the great mass of schools in their particular locality were any thing but a desirable condition and were not able to afford an education up to the wants of the community. Col. THOMPSON thought that the great object was to get over the religious antipathies of the different classes of the community to contrib u ti ng any money to the religious education of those opposed to them. Mr. SLANEY hoped that one part of their labours would be to inquire into the propriety of exempting those persons from taxation who entertained religious scruples on the subject, and who could show that they contributed to the education of their own religious de nomination. The amendment was then withdrawn, and the second reading of the Bill postponed until that day month. The motion for the appointment of a Select Com mittee to inquire into the condition of education in Slanchester and Salford, and to report on the best 'teens for improving the same, was then agreed to. PHARMACY BILL. Mr. ELLIS presented seven petitions in favour of this Bill. LONDON, disinclination to go into the matter, owing probably to the experience which he had had of the difficulty of dealing with medical matters, that he had thought it better not to fetter the Bill with such a clause, and in its place had inserted a provision that no by-law should become valid without the sanction of a special meeting of the Pharma ceutical Society. Again, it was urged by the medical bodies of Scotland that as their diplomas included phar macy their licentiates ought to be placed on the same footing with those who had passed an examination of the Pharmaceutical Board in this country. Now, he had no intention of preventing the licentiates of their bodies from acting as pharmaceutical chemists. It was objected that the definition pharmaceutical would exclude all belonging to medical or surgical bodies, but that exceptions had been introduced by the master and wardens of the society of chemists, and supported by the provincial medical association. His conviction was, that if the Bill passed, in a few years it would make great improvements in the body of pharmaceutical chemists; for, notwith standing the prohibitory clauses, it would be the means of inducing every person who wished to become a chemist to pass through a proper scientific education. The ex amination required.;would protect the public against ignorance and incompetence, and would furnish persons the :groundwork of an education which, by means of perseverance and the exercise of their talent and genius, would make them useful to the public and creditable to the country. He therefore hoped no objection would be offered to the second reading. Mr. WALPOLE considered before the House gave its assent to the principle of the Bill they ought to know something more of the constitution of the pharmaceutical society which was invested with such great powers. He sug gested that the Bill should be referred to a Select Com mittee, and in the event of such a Committee being ap pointed, he would suggest the propriety of some altera tion in the second clause, which gave powers to the society for the formation of bye-laws and regulations which he thought ought not to be given unless the society was placed under some supervision and control. He also thought that great difficulties would arise under the 15th clause, which subjected persons to penalties if they used the name of pharmaceutical chemist without being properly registered. Mr. BOUVERIE objected to the Bill because it would give a monopoly to a chartered company of which they knew nothing. The real object of it was to turn chemists and druggists into apothecaries, and to enable the body of pharmaceutical chemists to obtain a larger revenue than they now derived. Mr. BELL intimated that he would accede to the suggestion of the Secretary of State for the Homo De partment for sending the Bill to a Committee. The Bill was then read a second time on that under standing. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACT AMEND- MENT BILL. Mr. BUNBURY, in moving the second reading of this Bill, briefly explained its object, which he said was to make certain amendments to that part of the Municipal Corporation Act which prevented a member of a town council entering into any kind of contract with the cor poration. The Bill was introduced by Lord Cranworth in the House of Logs and received the sanction of all the legal authorities in that House. After a few words from Mr. HEADLAM, who stated it was his intention to propose two amendments in the Bill, it was read a second time. COMMON LAW FEES REGULATION BILL. This Bill was read a second time. BURGH HARBOURS (SCOTLAND) BILL. This Bill was also read a second time. PROPERTY QUALIFICATION OF MEMBERS. Mr. TUFNELL then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to abolish the property qualification of Members of Parliament. The Hon. Member said he made a similar motion last session, but withdrew it on the promise of Lord J. Russell that he would introduce a clause into his Reform Bill abolishing the property qualification of Members. That Bill had been brought before the House with such a clause in it, but the Noble Lord had abandoned the measure. He had, there fore, taken the earliest opportunity of bringing the subject again before the House, and if the Government would now cousont to his motion he would defer the discussion upcu the question until some future occasion. Mr. WALPOLE said he would not oppose the intro duction of the Bill, but he obj ected to pledge the Go vernueent one way or the other' es to the course they would take. Colonel SIBTHORI' could :not oppose the motion after the course the Government had taken, but he was extremely jealous of the introdviction of any Bill which did away with the constitutional qualifications of Mem bers which had long been held sacred by the House. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. The other orders of the day hming been disposed of, the House adjourned. WARWICK RACES (THISDA.Y.) (BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH (Continued from our Mird Edition.) Two Years Old Stakes. Libel colt .. Catherine Hayes A dead beat. Warwick Handicap. Doubt - Waterfall ... 1 ... 2 ITALY. We have received (says Galignani) a letter from a correspondent at Milan, which contradicts in the most positive manner the statement lately made in a letter from that city, published by the Opinione of Turin, that the greatest severity had been exercised by the police with regar d to Eng li s h travellers, and that, except un d er special cir cumstances, no English would be allowed to remain in Lombardy more than twenty-four hours. Our correspondent asserts that the police regulations, with regard to passports, instead of being more rigorous, are, on the contrary, less severe than they had ever been ; and mentions, as an instance, that some military officers lately arrived from India had obtained their passports on sending a porter, instead of being compelled to attend personally, as was formerly required. The Virgilio steam-packet arrived at Genoa on the 11th from Porto-Torres (Sardinia), with two Depu ties to the Turin Chamber on board. The latest accounts from Sassari are of the 9th. The province has been disarmed without resistance, and upwards of 2,000 muskets have been deposited, besides those of the National Guard, which gave up more that it had received from the Government. On the 11th expedi tions were to be sent into the Nuovo districts, which are infested by armed bandits. Cagliari, Tempio, Alghero, and Oziero, where disturban ces h a d b ro k en out, are now perfectly quiet. The Opinione of Turin, of the 13th instant, pub lishes the following letter from Milan of the 10th : The avowed object of the journey of the Emperor to Venice was a visit to the Grand Duke Constantine, but the real motive that induced his Majesty to show himsalf to his happy subjects in partibus infidelium was to ascertain the nature of the intrigues carried on in Italy by Russia. The second son of the Czar, now residing at Venice, makes frequent excursions along the coast, under the pretext of studying his pro fession 53 Admiral, and expends about 100,000,000 f. monthly. It was thus that the Empress, in 1847, under the pretence of roonvering her health, fixed her residence at Olivuzza, near Palermo. The consequence of that Imperial bad health was an alliance with the King of Naples, who thereby was sufficiently strong to breve England and the Italian revolution. An extraordinary flute was given towards the close of carnival at the Cm cano Theatre. In order to escape the vigilance of eubaLern spies, the price of the tickets was fixed at ten livres, and, with a view to exclude the white warriors (the Aus trians), it was agreed not to admit armed persons. Two deers having presented themselves, were invit©d to deposit their swords; they refused, and witildrew. An hc ur afterwards, Count Gnilay arrived Aith all his staff', and, after walking round the hall with his sword 'knocking on the floor, retired. We have been assured that the Grand Duke Constantine will visit LombareV next summer, and spend some weeks at Monza." TURKEY. The following has been received by electric tele graph, dated Tri.e ate, 14th inst.:—" A steamer has just arrived from Constantinople, bringing the news that the Sultan, on the 6th, recalled Iteschid Pacha to the functions of Grand Vizir." The Patrie, in giving this dispatch, says "This confirms the opinion which we have al ways expressed that the ex-Grand Vizir would soon return to power. So many services rendered by him to Turkey, -and so many proofs of devotedness given to the Sultan Abdul-Iltiedjid, left no doubt on this point on th.e3 minds of all those who are ac quainted with thus state of the Ottoman empire, and the great things •which were commenced under the in fluence of Reschid! Pacha. The enemies of those new in stitutions to which Turkey owes her regeneration will feel anger at :.he recal of the Prime Minister. The true partisans of the grandeur of that country will re joice at it, as a happy event for liberty and for the future welfare of the Turkish people." PERSIA. A letter from sal Austrian officer, who has recently entered the Persian service, states that the present S hah, who is only. 22 years of age, is one of the finest 'hen in the empire:. His great grandfather had 300 wives and an imnaense number of children, who, in their turn, have bad so many descendants, that it is calculated that Ca e Imperial family now reckons at least 10,000 indiv.iduais We have received PlaAltaLdlOutals to the 9th inst. On the 2d, at the zittin went the ordioani:E, f or i ff ie ° militia force was. read with some slight alterations. states that a project corps for the adf litioral protection of the Council of Govern in formation e of a Ilaltese Committee, igttreaen,d dimancl passed ° f forming ,e i t n r E l l it s g o e nt i o a s t i l h a : L a d d m Mr w i i r afl a a i s e i l also much spoker I of. On the 3d, ier was given by the mi Jitary and naval Sir William Pa) :ker and General Ellis ; e ea i i . e The re occa sion of their ap ?roaching departure from U na i r tl i i Governor and it zany of toe public funetio • present at the d inner. , WEDNESDAY EVENING, STATE OF TRADE. (From the Manchester Guardian of this day.) MANCHESTER, TUESDAY.—Th e quietness that came over our market last week is a good deal increased to day. There is still less inquiry for yarns from the merchants, who are evidently more dubious as to the maintenance of prices, than they were then. The production is too extensively under contract for any very noticeable effect to be producedupon the value of yarns by this change of feeling ; but those extreme and merely nominal quotations which the buoyancy of a fornight ago gave rise to, are now more generally modified than they were on Friday; and the bias of actual prices is slightly in favour of buyers in some kinds of mule and water twist; that is to say, a buyer may secure a little advantage to himself, if not with one spinner, yet with another whose engagements may be nearer their termination. As a rule, however, much steadiness prevails. Warps are affected the most; for they are to be had at a decline of kd. per lb.—fully that, indeed, in some kinds. Next some degree of wea k ness . Th ere is s o also them acopds betray some demand for such goods as were lately in active request; indeed, the falling off is very marked; and if sales must be made, rather lower prices must be submitted to; butmauufacturers have too many orders in hand for any such pressure to take place. The home dealers were beginning to make rather more inquiry for domestics, but this turn for the b e tt er i s scarce ly sustained to-day. The absence of the Ame rican news may have tended in a small degree to quiet ness, though in a less degree than its actual receipt towards the close of business hours. A more evident cause of dulness is the ominous fact that that system of free trade under which the great interests of the coun try are making such rapid progress, is placed in sus pense by the Government, and made to depend for its continued existence upon the result of agitation and electioneering contests. Hardly anything else has been talked about on 'Change to-day; and men of all parties feel that the course which Lord Derby asks the House of Commons to allow him to pursue is fraught with most serious evils. ROCHDALE, MO NDA.Y.—The flannel market continues very inactive , with not much prospect of a speedy change. There is no change in wool, either in price or demand. As the manufacturers wish to produce as little as possible under the present circumstances, they purchase the raw material for immediate use only. TUESDAY.—The position of our staple M manufactured goods, in reference to de m and, con tinues much the sam e as we l ast note d ; b ut t h e want o f confidence on the p art o f wholesa l e b uyers i s muc h com plained of in th e spr i ng d eman d. Th e t h rown s ilk market is now little less active for the present, but stocks generally AcmcLannusrfai are comparatively light, and prices continue firm. In the raw silk market, the business doing is moderate. Prices are much the same as last reported. HALIFAX, s ATtritDAy. —We have rarely had a duller market than to•day's. The uncertainty that hangs over the political world, both domestic and foreign, checks all operations ; and the aspect of the worsted trade is of a most desponding character. Yarns exhibit no amendment ; prices are at a stand, and the amount produced is greatly diminished. Wcol is to be bought on easier terms; but the transactions are neither large nor numerous. HunnEasPIELD, TUESDAY.—There has not been quite so much doing in our market to-day as last week. Crapc9, doeskins of large patterns, end light goods generally, suitable for spring wear, have been inquired for. The fancy trade continues dull; a moderate busi ness has been done in wools, at firm prices. ntimetres. TH E N EW COLOURS OF THE FRENCH ARMY. The manufacto r i es a t L yons are actively employ e d i n making the s ilk f or t h e colours to b e pres e nt e d to the army and N at i onal Guards. As soon as a p i ece of the silk is mad e i t i s forwarded to t h e Mi n i s t ry o f War, the,h mp er e e it ir u e n ; dergoes a trial to test the goodness of th e dye. Th ese colours, the silk of w hi c h i s d ou b le, will bo ninety cent i metres square , us they w ere under ee t h o e n s o t ti n n e d a r side d of will s the cavalry s e r w i b i l l e d b i e n sixty letters :—" Louis Napoleon au regiment." At the four corners will be placed a wreath of oak, within which will be the initials L. N., and the number of the regiment. On the other side the corners will be similar, but on the white stripe will be inscribed the initials R. F., and under them the campaigns in which the regiment has distinguished itself since its formation. The colour staff will be surmounted by a gilded eagle. Under it will be, on one side, the let ters R. F.; end, on the other, the number of the regi ment. The staff will be ornamented with a tricolour colour knot fringed with gold like the flag. The colours of each battalion of the national guards will be similar to those of the army, except that the fringe will be in silver. These colours are all to be completed by th e 25th of April next. SIR JAMES BROOKE.—A large number of the highest members of the mercantile and shipping interest, among whom are some of the East India directors, have de termined to invite the Raja to a public dinner, "in order to mark the sense they entertain of the eminent services ren dered by Sir James Brooke to the interests of commerce and humanity, in his endeavour to put down the evils of piracy in the Eastern Archipelago, and in his labours to advance the interests of civilization in that part of the world." The dinner will take place after Lent.—Norfolk Mercury. THE LONDON GAZETTE, March 16, BANKRUPTS. James Franklin, innkeeper, Great Marlow, Buckingham shire, to surrender March 27 and April 30, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Whitmore, official assignee, Basing hall-street; Spicer, Chancery-lane. Samuel Gash, builder, Hatcham New Town, Camberwell, March 26, at twelve, and April 27, at eleven, at the Court of Bankrutcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall• street ; Lawrance, Plews, and Boyer, Old Jewry-chambers. Henry Holland, builder, Eldon -road, Kensington, April 2 and 27, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Groom, official assignee, Abchurch-lane, Lombard. street; Mozon, Southampton-buildings, Chancery -lane. George Warhurst, ironmonger, Leigh, Lancashire, April 2 and 29, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. Mackenzie, official assignee, Manchester; Slater, Man chester. Thomas Lord, boot maker, As hton - under-Lyne, March 29 and April 26, at twelve, at the Blanchester District Court. Pott, official assignee, Manchester; Cobbett , Manchester. Robert Dilkes, inn keeper, Warrington, Lancashire, March 26 and April 19, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. Fraser, official assignee, Blanchester; Nicholson, Warrington. William Hough, jun., joiner and builder, Rochdale, March 30 and April 27, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. Fraser, official assignee, Manchester ; Downey, Rochdale. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. W. Carman, milkman, Broad-street, Lambeth. St. W. Georgelndsor.. F. Debenham, baker, St ney- errace, Kilburn. A. J. Weatherly, cheesemonger, Cumberland -row, Islington. W. Pyett, grocer, Bird-street,,.dt Lambeth. J. Price, cheesemonger, Upper W hitecross-street, St. Luke. the - Martyr, Bridge House ' Newington-causeway. place, Newn4, G. Boon, milliner, Hanway-street, Oxford-street. W. Carpenter, grocer, High-street, Shadwell. J. Dalling, hair dresser, Brewer-street, Golden-square. maker, Adam's t i r a o c w k , fr l ia la rs m .r p o s a t d ea . Hampstead -road. W. Gillbanks, Manchester agent, Mintern-street, Hoxton. J I . D B a i y g , g y 'l e ' atry clerkschoolmaster, o f J. G. Hutchinson, furrier, Edmund-place, Aldersgate-street. W. T. Webb, linen draper, Hall;street, City -road. T. Rossetter, miller, Windmill-street, 'hackney. J. C. Roeder, baker, Royley-street, Old-street-road. T. Ward, commission agent, Little Litchfield -street, Mary- RR.. Malony, Gellard, b li o c o e t n. Mary lebone. W. H. Thompson, jun., gentleman, Albany-street, Regent's park. s m ed ak vl S. Andrew, cotton waste:dealer, Ashton-under-Lyne. J. W. Barton, cotton waste dealer, Manchester. J. Heap, butcher,;HeatonNorris. E. Morrison, common carrier, Manchester. W. T. Moule, commission agent, Oxton, Cheshire. W. T. Hunt, gas engineer's clerk, Brunswick -terrace, South wark. T. A. Owen, shoemaker, hleaton Norris, Lancashire. James Prescutt, builder, Bolton-le-Moors Lancashire. Walter Scott, printer, Havant, Hants. , Richard Brown, bootmaker, Birkenhead. Charles Whitworth, carter, Rochdale, Lancashire. J. Cooke, sen., brickmaker's overlooker, Longton, Stafford shire. G. Robotham, jun., beer retailer, Longton, Staffordshire. D. Parry, brewer, Trosnant, Monmouthshire. B. Pearce, sen., stone merchant, Portland, Dorsetshire. E. Pinder, jun., builder, Birmingh am. Benjamin Ash, miner, Great Hucklow, Derbyshire. Richard Christie Brown, attorney -at-l aw , Bi r k en h ea d . J. H. H. Keeling, blacksmith, Great llucklow, Derbyshire. John Stevens, coach builder, Cheltenham. Thomas Thew, brazier, Bishopsvrearmouth. J. Leeds, licensed victualler, Milton-nett-Gravesend. W. Lewis, milkman, Birmingham. E. Mogridge, leather seller, Edgbaston, Warwickshire. J. Nurse, attorney-at-law, King's Lynn , Norfolk. G. Reid, gardener, Gra smore, Westmoreland. J. Schorab, journeyman hair dresser, Leeds. Thomas Wadsworth, chemist, Manchester. John Henry Francis, tailor, St. Helen's, Lancashire. John Lewis, tailor, Manchester. James Charles Poulett, tobacconist, Woodford, Essex. Richard Sharp, tailor, Middlesborough Yorkshire. James Hughes Allen, clerk, Dover. James Beckett, hosier, Huddersfield. James Jones, farm labourer, Talgarth, Brecknockshire. DIVIDENDS. In the Country. J. Johnson, Live rpool, and Seacombe, Cheshire, grocer, April 6, at eleven—at the Court, Liverpool—J. Brotherston (not Brotherton as advertised in last Fri day's Gazette), Liverpool, merc h ant, A pr il 2, at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool —T. Dalton and T. Edwards, Birmingham, ironfounders April 8, at half-past eleven, at the Court, Birmingham. L'AYMENT OF DIVIDENDS. E. Thornton, Iluddersfield, ironmonger, 4d., on Thursday, March 18, or any subsequent Thursday, be tween eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Freeman, Leeds. J. Sykes and T. Sykes, Soyland, Yorkshire, woollen manufacturers, 45., on Thursday, March 18, or any sub sequent Thursday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Freeman, Leeds. A. R. Stace, Strood, 'Cent, ironmonger, 4s. 6d., on Tuesday, March 16, or any subsequent Tuesday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall chambers, Basinghall-street. T. Rutherford, Agnes -place, Waterloo-road, mer chant, Is. 2d., on Tuesday next, or any subsequent Tuesday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basinghall-strcet. Burton, York-s quare, C ommerc ial-road East, clerk in her Majesty's Customs, 5d., on Tuesday next, or any anbacquent Tuesday, b etween eleven an d t wo , at the. il. office of Mr. Pennell, G u il dhall-cham b ers , Basingha stree J. uller, City-road, glass merchant, 45., on Tuesday next, or any subsequent Tuesday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, B as i ng hall-street. A. Campbell, ls. 3d., on T ues d a y next, or any subse quent Tuesday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basinghall-street. J. Greenshields and M. Strang, Liverpool, merchant; la., on Wednesday, Murcia Zl or any subsequent Wed- MARCH 17, 1852 nesday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. I Morgan, Liverpool. G. rke, Bryn Malley, Denbighshire, limo burner 55., on Wednesday, March 31, or any subsequent Wed nesday, between eleven and two, at tho office of Mr. Morgan, Liverpool. W. Pownall, Macclesfield, silk manufacturer, is. 6d., on Thursday ne x t, an d three following Thursdays, be tween eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Graham, Coleman-street. R. Summers, Bath street, City-road, pawnbroker and silversmith, 9s. I ld., on Thursday next, and three fol lowing Thursdays, between e l even and two, at the office of Mr. Graham, oleman-stre e t. H. J. Cook, Hedge-row, High-street, Islington, linen draper, id., on Thursday next , and three following Thursdays, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Graham, Coleman-street. W. Taylor and J. Wylde, Wood-street, City, and Lock's-fields, Walworth, flock manufacturers, Bd., any Wednesday, eleven and th ree , at the office of Mr. Whitmore, Basinghall-street. T. E. Southee, Fleet-street, advertising agent, 2a. 5d., any Wednesday, between eleven and three, at the office of Mr. Whitmore, Basinghall-street. A. Heilbronn and J. Harrison, Great St. Helen's, City, drysalters, Is. 10d., any Wednesday, between el.ven and three, at the office of Mr. Whitmore, Basing hall-street. NOTICES OF CERTIFICATES. In the Country. D. Little, Liverpool, merchant, April 8, at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool—T. Ramsden, Chester, timber merchant, April 8, at eleven, at the Court. Liverpool— Mary Ann Keel, Liverpool, coffee-house keeper, April 6, at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool—D. Morton, Wal sall, Staffordshire, chemist and druggist, April 7, at half-past eleven, at the Court, Birmingham—W. Wor ley, Smethwick, Staffordshire, licensed victualler, April 7, at half-past eleven, at the Court, Birmingham. CERTIFICATES GRANTED. J. J. Hatch, Friday-street, City, furrier, certificate of the first olass—J. Sherwin, Liverpool, baker, certificate of the third class—G. Nock, Frith-street, Soho, gold smith and jeweller, certificate of the third class—S. V. Burge, Taunton, Somersetshire, saddler, certificate of the second class—T. Dixon, Bradford, Yorkshire, iron merchant, certificate of the second class—J. Roberts, Rhyl, Flintshire, innkeeper, certificate of the first class, after twenty-one days from Feb. 19—T. H. Harris, Liverpool, shipowner, certificate of second class, after twenty-one days from March 4. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. J. Armstrong, sen., and J. Armstrong, jun., Carlisle, Cumberland, attorneys—C. B ou l t b ee an d J . B. Stedman, Whittlesey, Cambridgeshire, surgeons and apothecaries —E. M. Matthews and J. Stephenson, Tynemouth, Northumberland, ship chandlers—D. Noble and J. Fielding, Salford, brewers—E. Noah and P. Aaron, Bir mingham—H. and J. Crossley, Woolwich —J. Hann, W. Clark, and A. W. Makinson, New Palace.yard, West minster, civil engineers (so far as regards J. Hann)—J. 11. Berrey and G. Sutton, Acresford, Leicestershire and Derbyshire, brewers—T. Cummins and J. Firbank, Gateshead, Durham, painters—W. and I. Haywood, Rood-lane, City, merchants—T. Lowis and G. Kerr, Newport, Monmouthshire, drapers—J. Brown and H. Axe, Sheffield, slaters—L. A. Reeve and E. Benham, Henrietta-street, Covent-garden, publishers —W. H. Cook and J. Morley, Kingston-upon- Hull, drapers—W. and J. Shaw, and J. Caudwell, Manchester, bakers (so far as regards J. Caudwell—B. J. Nowell and J. Hemingway, Isle of Anglesoa, J. B. Hemingway, St. Mellons, Monmouthshire, and C. Pear son, Leequith, Glamorganahire, contractors—E. B. Dimmack, Thompson, J. Firmstone, and J. K. Black well, Pontypool, Monmouthshire, coal and iron masters (so far as regards J. K. Blackwell)—W. G. Baker and IL Dunn, Nowcastle-upon-Tyne, brewers—R. Silk and T. Brown, Long-acre, coach builders. INSOLVENT PETITIONERS. George Williams, Helston, Cornwall, butcher. Henry Young, Newport, Isle of Wight, smith. Robert Moffatt, Wolverhampton, carpenter. John:De Grey, Wolverhampton, baker. Evan Davis. Bradley, Staffordshire, miner. Robert Johnson, Runcorn, Cheshire, grocer. John Smith Deane, Altrincham, Cheshire, painter. Peter Saunders, Hitchin, Hertfordshire, cordwainer. Wm. John Thompson, jun., Birmingham, revenue officer. James Hardy, East Dereham, Norfolk, millwright. SCOTCH SEQUESTRATION. F. Robertson, GirvAn, surgeoa, to meet within the George Hotel, Girvan, March 19, and April 13, at twelve, IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 16. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. The Marquis of CLA.NRICARDE rose to ask her Majesty's Ministers whether it was their intention to propose any alteration in the present applica tion of public money to educational purposes in Ireland. He expressed his conviction that any amelioration in the condition of Ireland must be based, in the first instance, on the diffusion of education in that country. The present system worked well, ho believed ; it had been prepared with great care and deliberation, after long consultation with the hier archy of the country, and since its first establishment its sphere of operation had continued on the increase, and there were at present 562,000 children receiving instruc tion under it. The Noble Marquis then briefly traced the progress of the National School system, from 1832 down to the last report which had been presented on the subject, with a view to show the progress which it had made. In 1834 there were 789 schools, giving edu cation to 107,000 children; in 1843 the schools had in creased to 2,912, and the children to 353,000; in 1846 the number of schools was 3,600, and scholars 455,450; and according to the last report, in 1850, notwithstand ing the great extent of emigration in 1849, the number of schools was 4,547, and the pupils receiving instruc tion 511,639. Additional accommodation had since been obtained, and the schools now numbered 4,600, having 526,000 scholars. Now, he maintained that these schools ought to be preserved by the Government of the country, fur he took upon himself to say that there did not exist a better system of Christian educa tion in any part of the civilised world. The books of the National Society were sought after not only by schools in this country but in various parts of the conti nent; and it was a system of education eminently prac tical. There were seventeen model schools in diffe rent parts of Ireland, besides those which he had mentioned, and the whole system was calculated to be of the utmost benefit to the country. This being the case, he was sorry to have had hie attention lately called to a speech delivered by her Majesty's Attorney- General in Ireland. He did not wish to find fault with any particular words of that speech, but with its general purport, which appeared to be to find fault with the pre vent system of national education, and to state that ha should endeavour to induce the Government to lend their support to a different system. He stated that Lord Derby had said that he would have an honest inquiry to see what could be done. Such a speech coming from so high an authority would certainly have the effect of leading persons to suppose that the present Government were inclined to extend their plans of education to other systems than that of the national board, in contradiction to the policy of their predecessors. When they consi dered all the difficulties with which the national school system had had to contend—all the antagonism which it had to encounter—it was impossible not to award praise to those noble, learned, and reverend persons by whose untiring zeal and assiduity—by whom its success had been mainly secured.—(gear, hear.) He hoped the present Government would support the system; but if it was said that the matter was under the consideration of the Government, and a doubt was thrown upon it, it would be most injurious, not only to the system itself, but to the Government; and ho thought he was doing no bad service to her Majesty's Government by asking tho Noble Earl if it was his intention to make any change whatever in the appropriation of the public funds? The Earl of DERBY said he was sure that their Lord ships and the Noble Marquis himself must suppose. that if any person were personally interested in the well working of the system of education in Ireland, it must be the individual who had then the honour of addressing their Lordships; because, without taking to himself any further credit, he was the person during whose adminis tration as Chief Secretary of the Affairs of Ireland, the various reports of former commissions and plans pre pared by learned and painstaking individuals, were ex amined; and the Government of which he was a Mem ber, came to the conclusion that it was necessary to introduce a now system of combined education. It was his good fortune to be the organ of that Government in framing the original regulations and introducing that system. He had watched with the deepest interest, he needly hardly say, the progress and increase which the Noble Marquis had so ably sketched of the number of schools and scholars under the system then intro duced. He believed no step which could be taken could have any effect in weakening the influence which that system had produced on the minds of the people of Ireland. He believed it had deeply rooted itself in the institutions and affections of the people, and th a t th e p rogress o f th a t system was as certain as he believed its results, on the who s l e e, af had e been beneficial. Great as had been the increase d not it a number of schools and pupils, he believed . been more than commensurate with th w e given in Ireland point of quality, of the educationnßoaarg improvement, in under the auspices ofas compared some twenty with the quality of the the Nationaltion given d ce should be withdrawn years ago. And he also believed , that if at that mo ment all Government assistan a from that and all other schools, advantage would have been derived. The people of Ire land now knew and appreciated what really good education was, as compared with that prevalent some 20 or 2 5 years ago; and they would no t be satisfied with wines , tion of a an o; inferior quality to . that which th ey now re ceived. Nor did he believe it to be in th e power of any class of persons, however great the i n fl uence they might i exercse ove r a portion of the population, to support schools of an inferior character, in opposition to those of the present system.—(Hear, hear.) He gladly joined in the tribute of respect which the Noble Marquis had paid to those Reverend and Learned persons to whose assi duity the progress of the system was more to be attri buted, than to any assistance which had been given by the Government. He had spoken of this as a system of education, but at the same time it was impossible that the Noble Marquis must not acknowledge, as ho must himself, that in the course of twenty years various modifications in the de tails had been introduced, various alterations in the minor details of the board, and even some connected with matters of primary importance. For example, he understood, for he had not of late, attended minutely to the details of the education in progress; but he believed that that which in the first instance was rendered com pulsory, namely, the use of Scripture lessons in all the schools, had, from various causes, been left to tho will and pleasure of the managers ; and, consequently, in Many ;schools whore Scripture leaseno were not used there was less of Scripture education given in those schools than was originally contemplated in the syetem. He did not mean to say that, although that was the case, there was not given to the great bulk of the Roman Ca tholic population a far more enlightened education than they would ha ee received if that system had not been es tablished. But various modifications, of which that was one, had taken place from time to time. They were aware that some time ago various objections, based on religious grounds, were taken on the part of the Presby terian bodies, who held aloof with as much perseverance as many—he might say almost the whole—of the united church of England and Ireland, The absence of that co•operation he felt it to be a great mis fortune. He felt it to be a great misfortune that the system was not taken up by them, because they would by this time have obtained great influence over the edu cation of the people, and thereby over the minds not only of the Protestant, but the Roman Catholic popula tion—an influence which ho did not mean to say would have been improperly, but beneficially used. But while he regretted that the Protestant clergy of England had stood aloof to such an extent, he was not ashamed to say he considered it a matter of the greatest importance to ascertain whether, without departing from the original system, it might not be possible to introduce into that system such modifications as might mitigate the objec tions, and induce the clergy to co-operate far more largely than they had hitherto done in the system. — (Hear, hear.) He had not had time to read much; and ho hoped his Right Hon. and Learned Friend the At torney-General for Ireland, if he heard what was then taking place, would not think that be was treating him with disrespect, if he frankly avowed that he had not read the speech to which the Noble Marquis had alluded. But this he knew, that he had had communications with him ou the subject, and he knew his straightforward and candid character too well, not to believe that he had made no statement in which he was not entirely borne out and warranted by the lan guage which he (the Earl of Derby) had used. He thought an investigation would tend to remove misun derstandings on both sides, and he intimated at that time that he was strongly disposed to submit the ques tion for their Lordship? consideration, and to move that a Committee of that House ho appointed. There was one point which he thought it desirable to consider, how far this system was practicable with a combined educa tion, which would bring up the youth of Ireland in con stant and familiar intercourse with those of a different religious persuasion to themselves, and teach them rather how many points there were in which they agreed than on which differed; how far such a system was an exclu sive system, not practically, but in its results; how far the schools under Presbyterian management were prac• tically confined to Presbyterians; how far in the south and west of Ireland, where the great bulk of the people were Roman Catholics, and the schools were under the management of Roman Catholic patrons, and had Ro man Catholic schoolmasters—and as the great majority of the people were Roman Catholic ho did not complain of that—he thought it right that they should know by the investigation how far this system was practically a system of combined education. He thought for that purpose it was desirable that a Committee should be appointed; he thought that the labours, and investiga tions, and suggestions of that Committee might remove a portion of the objections that now existed. If the re sult of the inquiry was to find that, practically speaking, in the great majority of schools in which it was intended a combined system should prevail, there was in reality an exclusive system; that there were Presbyterian schools here, and Roman Catholic schools there, from which a portion of the community were practically ex cluded by the rules of the board, ho hoped it would not be considered as anything that would in the slightest degree trench on the existing system, if they entered into a calm inquiry how far assistance might to a certain degree be afforded, even to schools which did not come within the letter of the law, whether by the supply of school requisites, or by the supply of the literary works of the board, which fully deserved the praise the Noble Marqrais gave to them, and which he believed had been adopted, not only throughout this kingdom, but in a great part of Europe also, and had been recognised both by Protestant and Roman Catholic. He said that there I were other schools which were excluded from the ad vantages of coming under the direct superinten c d ,r e i n ve ce fr a o n m d control of the board, and yet if these schools might be admitted to the advantages which they might d the assistance of the board, without sacrificing their own principles, he did not see that they (the Government) were in the slightest degree violating the principles on which the board was founded, if, adopting the example which was set in this country in the first instance, they consented to give some assistance to those schools, be they Protestant or Catholic. He did not shrink from the consequence adverted to by the Noble Marquis. If they gave such (assistance to Protestant schools they could not withhold similar assistance from Roman Ca tholic schools. In 1831 and 1832, when this system was first originated, there was a difference of feeling from that which prevailed now which would have rendered any assistance to a school exclusively Roman Catholic on the part of her Majesty's Government a matter of absolute impossibility. He had reason to believe that the feeling which then existed did not exist in the pre sent day. He believed that the objections which were then entertained, as to educating Roman Catholics as Roman Catholics, had not the same weight in the minds of the people now that they had in 1831, He believed, that affording such assistance to a school composed of Roman Catholics, would not meet now the opposition and objections which it would have met with in 1831 and 1832; but, he admitted, that if they gave such assistance to schools exclusively Protestant, they could not refuse it to schools exclusively Catholic. Whether it was possible to combine the independence of these schools, in their internal ar rangement, with the superintendence of the board, when they received aid from the national funds, was a matter on which, at the moment, he could not give a positive opinion. He thought it was a subject that if they sub mitted it to a Committee —if they ascertained that, prac tically combined, education had been the rule, and ex clusive education had been the exception—he thought it then deserved their attention whether they should ex tend the principle still further, and without, in the slightest degree diminishing the influence exercised by the Board of Education, whether thee , might not on the one side or the other extend the benefits of a good educa tion, assisted by Government, supplied with the hest books, and controlled by Government. His Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland was perfectly right in stating that he did desire him to overcome the opposi tion of the Protestant clergymen to this system; he did desire that an investigation should take place into the practical working of that system, into the modification which from time to time it had been thought neces sary or expedient to make in the regulations of the board in the course of the last twenty years, with the yet further modification which, without departing from the principle, might be adopted; and he was fur ther justified in saying that he desired the co-operation of the clergy—that he desired, above all, to have the means in Ireland, as far as possible, to extend to Ro man Catholics and to Protestants, under the superin tendence of the board and of the Government, the ad vantages o f a good moral, literary, and religious edu cation. Further than that, he then expressed his opi nion that the appointment of a Committee, fairly chosen, and entering into such an investigation, might tend to remove difficulties from, and give facilities to, the extension of education. Neither he nor her Ma jesty's Government were in the slightest degree pledged. But ho was of opinion that an investigation by a Com mittee was desirable, for the purpose of seeing how far modifications might be introduced into the existing system which might have the tendency, not of diminish ing the influence of the board, but of carrying out more extensively those great objects which to u great extent had been accomplished, and which it was his earnest desire to see thoroughly and completely carried out. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he was glad that tho Noble Earl had thought fit to give so full and, in many respects, so satisfactory an answer to the ques tion put to him by the Noble Marquis. To the honour and credit of the Government to which he had himself the honour to belong, they gave to the system of educa tion in Ireland the most anxious attention and their un bending support. The Noble Earl, from the knowledge he had of the subject, would be aware of the mandyiffidiffi culties they had to encounter in carrying it out— eul- fatal if it had not been for the happy and f fo t r h tu a i t t ties which ho did not hesitate to say would have e p e r e o e v i e r d . system cir cumstance that there were at the head distinguished for their prelates of two churches equally Noble Earl well knows, the and by the anxiety, as the enlightened character and their liberality those two prelates, the to all classes; labour, and the assiduity made acquainted with th e people of Ireland had educationi had enlightened, instead of —if he system had been kept ab li e v e e n , o and_the gn g o r r e a a n t t meadssucoaftiothe e io a n y T—h w aa i tn th all the success that blessings of b h t e o h p a w e n ou t bl hey ' have anticipined. but with a much greater degbereee might use had the d a nfeodexrpenrroce before. thheatt,oliietheTattahlal: attended,whieh they could fairly And had would dn not s inferenceay could not t o he f success ey b i sf e t e e u be h de r ewwo u but if it were touched, it should be touched with the greatest care. The Committee could be so composed as to produce good results; but he was against going into that Committee, with any view that 1t le substantial foundation of that system should be departed from. Now, the substantial foundation of that s 'stem was a when the common education f or a ll . And, 3 Noble Earl threw out as a suggestion the possibility of having separate grants for Protestants and Roman Catholics and Presbyterians, he trusted he would consider whether by such grants, he would not cause the common system, of education to be the exception, and exclusive educa tion the rule; and that all the grants of money, and all the exertions of disinterested men to carry the present system out, had been wasted. Another reason for their being cautious was this—he bad mentioned that the success of the system was owing to the exertions of two prelates. U n f or t una t e ly they had at this moment to de plore the loss of one of those di stin g uished prelates, who had done honour to the church with which h e h ad been connected. Much would depend on the choice of the person who would be his stiec . essn and upon th e state of things which he would find.ert That,• he said,, was an additional reason fo r not disturbing the system which, he held, was at the present mo ment successful. The Earl of DE RSA T said the object was to ;give a general e d uca tion. He denied that the p resent system e d u cation. He afforded a general ethought it desirable to have an i n vestigation , with a view not to separate, but to unite all classes. said, The Earl of RODEN when . this system was proposed to the house he felt it his duty to oppose first that no measure should i t. H e thought by her Me.iestY's Government under a Protestant Con stitution that had not for it s f oundation the teaching of t h e Scriptures and the spread of the Bible among the children w ho were to be admitted to tho schools. He h a d learned since that Roman Catholic children to a large amount were attending, and were very glad to attend, schools under scriptural education. He could not agree with the Noble Marquis that this system of education in Ireland was successful. He admitted that the books were good, that some of the schools were good, but the great majority of the schools did cot give an united education, and were exclusively Roman Cetholic. He was certain that the op position of the Protestant clergy was from con scientious motives. The Noble Earl had stated that an inquiry might be of use, and that, if it should appear that grants might be properly made to Church education schools, it should be so. Ho was glad to hear it. He believed that no fewer than 10,000 persons had, through the reading of the Scriptures, been brought out from the Church of Rome, and this had taken place in the diocese of Dr. M'Hale, an eminent man, a man of great talents, and who, he believed, sincerely maintained his opinions because he had, in accordance with these opinions, opposed the establishment of these melees! schools. Throughout his diocese there was not a na tional school to be found, and consequently the children went to the schools were the Scriptures were taught. Lord MONTEAGLE said he thought the Noble Earl who had just sat down would enter into the proposed inquiry on principles entirely opposed to the system. This, no doubt, was a fitting q uestion te be the subje c t o f a Parliamentary inquiry ; but the investigation, in such a case, could only be with a view to partial amendment, not to complete alteration; because a system such as the national system of education in I re l an d was not to be lightly d ea l t with. But considerable dangers would arise in the event of the Legislature sanctioning such suggestions as those of the,, Noble Earl (Earl of R o d en ) . On the very fi rst v ote ot . money for the encour agement of a separate sys tem et education for the peasantry of Ireland the knell of the national system would be rung,—(bear, hear.) N ° doubt there were nume r o us cases i n Irelan d i n which the Protestant children h a d b een w i thdrawn f ro m th e c national schools; but in all th ose cases i t wou ld be found that it was because the Protestant minister had with drawn his presence from the school in order to es tablish a separate school for the children of his owl; creed. There was a most serious principle involved in this demand of separate grants. If the Legis lature conceded the d eman d of the Noble Ear l (Earl of R o d en ), th at t h e P rotestant children b o eau" cased in exclusively Protestant schools, th e n, logica ll y' theyg would b e b oun d to admit that e whole of 91 education of the Roman Catholic children of Ireler o p u ri g e h st t s to or be ir plc n e d d ._ in ( t H he ear h , an h d esaor. f ) the Roman Catholic consequ e nc e o f t h e first concesTsihoins;waonudk,l to 04 ! w ithout wishing to depart from his invariable rule of speaking with the utm ost respect of the Roman Catholic cler gy such men in Ireland, he did not h esitate to say that sileVe consequence would no t t en d to the advancement of t"" objects which a wise Legislature should have in vie w c; (Hear, hear.) In co nc l us i on , t h e N oble Lord move d for the production of the l e tt er o f M r. Stanley to t h e Dul of Leinster (as we understood), explaini ng the view s is Earl Grey's Governm e nt w ith regard to the @stab il° went of the national system of education in Ireland. The Earl of DONOIJGHMORE thought that the O P tem of common education, it it meant merely the educe' tion of the childr e n of different creeds in one school, li s o , not succeeded to any great extent i n Ireland in effectin the princip a l o bj ect f or w hi ch it had been estab li s hed; s for he believed that religious rancour was fully es t fe h a l this moment in Ireland as it had been in 1832. A l' o-e and illustrious Duke (Wellington) had once used the e expression in their Lordships' House that there we r 6,000,000 of Roman Catholics in Ireland, and thate whether their Lordships liked it or not, there these tail' lions were. He (Lord Donoughrnore) might sugges t an analogous argument on this occasion. There were 1, 6 v,,, educated gentlemen, Protestant clergymen, in Ireland' These These rev, gentlemen were conscientiously oppose d the system of national education; and whether tb" . Lordships liked it or not, these individuals would coo" tinue to be opposed to that system. This was the fa ct; and it was absurd to maintain that that system could be a thoroughly nati ona l system which had not obta i ne d the sanction o f persons of such influence an d u position. He could not perceive the peculiar difficul ties which were alleged to he in the way of 1 1 satisfactory settlement of this controversy. It seeme d to him that th e so l ut i on o f the problem was to be found in such a now system as would make the patrons of th e several schools the judges of the character of the reli' gious education which should be given, with the proviso that the minimum of religious instruction should be the reading at the stated intervals of the scriptural extracts decided upon us part of the arrangements of 1832 in re ference to the national schools. Certainly such a solo' tion would be accepted with satisfaction by the large majority of Irish Protestant clergymen. He was glad that there would be a Parliamentary Committee on the whole question, and he was not without hopes that the advocates of a change would produce such evidence be fore the Committee as would be calculated to remove all further doubts upon the desirability of resorting to 8 new and batter system. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE replied, in a few brief observations; and after some conversation between the Noble Marquis, Lord DE Ros, and the Earl of DONOUGEIMORE, the subject d ropped. The House adjourned at Half-past Seven until to morrow (Thursday) afternoon. HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 16. PERFORATED POSTAGE STAMPS. Mr. MUNTZ'moved for a Select Committee to in quire and report upon the areement entered into be tween the Commis s i oners of Inland Revenue end the _ patentee relative to the construction of the perforating the sheets of postage labels, and whether i . would be desirable to carry out the principle for gehe ra : use. He said the patentee (Mr. Archer) bad invented b. " machine for perforating sheets of postage etanePa , Li f, which great benefit would be produced to the publie• and had submitted his improvement to the Goverrio e° , t hg be had asked for no remuneration beyond what be taiba r et entitled to in proportion to the advantage derived - ° d t he , o, bu t t ha w y h o e ff n er th ed e machine f or his invention. The Commissioners of Stamps a n •th' Commissioners of Inland Revenue were satisfied w! - „ rannor atto h ; the invention, only ues t 2 i° ,o n ool. f , i a n l v lu en de ti cl on to, although the machine itself cost 1,0001., and the patent 1,1001.. 'vitae out taking into account the years which Mr. Archer 11..". devoted to the invention. He thought, teso, that ". Archer had not, in other respects, been fairly trestr u .. He had offered to stamp the whole of the sheets of Fo s ' age labels for a certain sum a year. One of the Com missioners had tak en advantage of this, and after haviag t . informed the perso n w h o at present held the contract of Mr. Archer's offer, continued the contract to that pewrsor! at a reduced rate. H o h oped the Governmen twould not oppose the motion. Mr. GROGAN said he had given notice of the fel' owing amendment to the motion : —For a Select Commit tee to inquire and report upon the p re sent mode of en - . graving, printing, an d gumming the postage label stamps , and likewis e w h e th er an d how the perforating machine , invented by the patentee, could be applied to the Fame with advantage to the public. He agreed with what the Hon. Member for Birmingham bad said on the subje ct, but as his a men d ment was an extension and not a con tradiction of the motion for inquiry, he hoped it would be adopted. The question having been put, the Hon. Member for Birmingham was, that itas of an agreement to exist between the Commissioners Mr. HAMILTON said the objection to the motion of when no such agree mentlnland Revenue and the patentee, 1847 the true that and to the Commis patentee presented to the Post-office n for perforating stamps, sinners of Inland Revenue. a P a would be attended with public; but he stated that existed. It was quite truthat in which according to his ns Jon o the de ftrrwoamit with r. m regard ow t A o T t T h a he would leave the question of of stamps. Li de cision of the Commissioners tie could not proposed by the advantage and saving to ! v re w p nompe a.. t Hon. Member consent to the inquiry s Dublin, he thought° amendment of the House the Hon. Member fe d to institute ought to adopt it, an the inquiry proposed for A ß il i e r r m a in f g ew h ham; in ito rd b s u object in bringing nd Mr. GEscir, Mr. MUNTZ said as his only for ward the motion was to have the matter investigated, ho was w illing to withdra w i t i n favour of the amend ment, He admitted there was no bona fide agreement, but the Commissioners of Stamps had acknowledged the principle that the patentee should be remunerated ac cording to the advantage derived by public from the his invention. The original moti • on having been withdrawn, the amendment was put a n d agreed to. PROPOSED RAILWAY FROM OBAN TO GLASGOW. Mr• J. STUART rose to move a resolution as to the expediency of assistance being afforded by Parliament and the Government to facilitate the intercourse and traffic between the Western Highlands and Isles and the 1 southern parts of the kingdom, by the construction of a railway from the town and harbour of Olean, in Ar gyleshire, to Glasgow. The Hon. and Learned Gentle man, after having presented a petition from about 300 proprietors, clergymen, and other inhabitants of Inver ness-shire, in favour of his resolution, proceeded to say that a grant of public money had formerly been pro posed by the late Chancellor of the Exche quer for the relief of the inhabitants of the Western Highlands and Islands, by facilitating emi gration among them. The measure which he had then to submit to the House was one of a different cha racter, but was framed for a similar purpose. It wall well known that the benevolent project of the late Go vernment had failed from peculiar circumstances. His (Mr. Stuart',) object was to direct the attention of the House to certain facts which would show, as he believed, that a grant of public money might be made for the construction of a railway between the port of Oban, in Argyleshire, and Glasgow, without any ultimate loss to the national revenue and with great benefit to the in habitants of a district placed at present under very pe culiar disadvantages. Such a railway would open up a communication between the remote and secluded Western Highlands and Islands and the great lines of communi cation throughout the kingdom. It would supersede the long and dangerous navigation by which the traffic of that district was at present conducted; and that traffic, he should remind . the [louse was of an ex tensive character. The Chambix of Commerce of Glasgow, whose members must have been Per" fectly accputinted with the whole subject, had memo rialised the late Chancellor of the Exchequer in favour of the project, and had expressed their belief that it would ho difficult to conceive how the public money could be more legitimately or usefully employed than in aiding in the construction of such a work. Tbe condition of the inhabitants of that district was at pre sent most deplorable in consequence of the want of that system of communication. Such an application of tho public funds had been sanctioned by some of the wisest of English statesmen a century ego, when roads had been constructed in the Highlands under the direction of General Wade. In the year 1847 the late Lord 0 • Botitinek had brought before the House a prop for an advance of public money for the construction o f an . extensive system o f railway communication in Irehin:l: ..c and, although th a t project had been rejected the G o " 0. went by whom it h a d teen opposed had themselves ou I 3