The Sun. — London, England, 1852-04-24 00:00:00

Wit irre voeably secured; and it tho present Goveranaent ! gaited t hi s truth, he thought the sympathies of the L at lttY would carry them triumphantly through the rltt P etliement.—(ilesr, hear.) Whether the present Gov ernment adopted thi s c o u rse or not he took his sta n d t_e liber a l conservative free-trader.—(Cheers.) He pPolted to gi ve hi s support to any Ad m i n i strat i on b ase d Pon liberal conservatism , and he would support the resentir_ hat.pohe G y overnment until they attempted to subvert - which was ineugurated and eubsequently ed by Sir Robert Peel, a id which owl endeared his y‘ l4B in the t affectionate re, ollection of hundreds of al itanda the people of this country. Re :bog to the su bj ect f rom w hi c h h e h a d t h us di gresse d % t hought he had a ri g ht to ask the House of Commons I t was the reason of their present most extraordinary establishment. The drift of public affairs not explain it. When Prince Schwarz -n " "K wail at Vienna, his well-known enmity to England „ I ght make p recaut i on necessar y, an d he admitted that " 4011 the - Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton sounded the alarm; difficulties did exist, but at the present mo . %eta these difficulties had most materially diminished, and there was scarce left a ripple now on the muddy Waters of Enropean politics.—(Cheers.) The only plea • f Or the i ncrease o f t h ese m ili tar y a nd naval establish ` it:delves the possibility of sudden inva sion by the i' l liPort of troops throogh the medium of s tea m p ower. $e asserted that this country was in a position co repeat the lesson o f humiliation sae bad ever giv.n to all 'ta lking that competed with her. el e would like to know ,What w as s eu dd en i nvas i o n? The Noble Lord the Mem i.o,er for Ti verton h a d ventured to give them a definition. 'le said that they nad to provideeteonst a disaster, wltich might happen not at the and of six or eight months, but a,..danger which might arise in a fortnight or a month. tte asked hi m if he received intelligence that 100,000 1111 Anten were to be landed in this country in a tert night; would he believe it?—(Hear, bear)—or if he did, Of whet use where those who h a d memos of diplo mac y e seen teemed licensed spies, whose dutv it was to maintain Watchful eyes over the interests of this country ? It was kapossible that the necessary preparations could escape thei r . ..do wn s. Bat there was another check. To his Personal knowledge the ores.; of this country was sin gularlyenergiric in obtaining, and singularly cornet i n its information. Before Government c uld receive of ficial intimation of an event the press had made it puolic. If the watchful eyes of the licensed spies were deceived, could the vigilance of the press be lulled. He thought it could not. However, there was a more sensitive chain for communicating intelligence. He alluded to those commercial relations which bound nations more together than the diplomacy of Cabinets or the intrigues of statesmen. The merchant at (Meese, at Marseilles, or Manchester, would taro obtain the required informa tion, nor would he be backward in forwarding it to his Government. He was the last person who would wish to disown the advantages which accrued from a militia. All he meant to say was, that if there was any danger now, he Would greatly prefer to see some 10 000 men ad led to the regular army. He thought that the country would be thus koreefficiently served, and with less disarrangement to the social economy of the nation. Teen came that great difficilty; a standing army impoveri.hed the MOOD. Sir ft , Peel, upon this subject, in 1841, said:—" What tel the, advantage of increasing your establishments? other nations will follow your example, and you will obtain no real amount of advantage more than you now Possess. By maintaining a standing army you are de riling Peace of half its advantages, and extirpating the e nergies of war before occasion regoires." He repeated, that he had no desire to deprecate the utility of militia- Lment from p e r s onal as well as historical information. he : 0 1 not fe e l justifi e d in so doing. He had himself in the space of four weeks, an army of 100,000 feed and torn from their domestic comforts to engage Itt battle the call of their country. That strife was BPPily terminated , and he had seen them peacefully . return to their domestic hearths. In the glowing pages Macaulay they would find recorded the gallantry of the Sornersetshire militiamen in the Monmouth struggle, `fie re they drove the enemy from the field, and only lost victory from a want of ammunition. Lord Mahon, in his' history of A mer i can in d e p en d ence , records the bra y"Y of the Massachusetts militiamen, whol gained the vic earYst Bunk er ' s H i ll ; an d W as hi ng t on h a d ga i ne d hi s rillient reputation et the head of militiamen. Washing first acquired his brilliant reputation at the bead of , 4 lttiainen in the Canadian war, and obtained the Asa.. ~"jean of Bunker's Hill with men called out only for , 74 3'ear.—(Hear.) He made these observations for the ~,._etrPose of showing that with his personal experience, information derived from historical resources, he was f: horn depreciating the value or efficiency of a militia -a e - -(Cheers from the Ministerial enches)—eith tis lialb. differenee, that he only considered them of value h in a'l3luntries where there was no standing army. Wnere ra p i r e was a standing arm y contentions and strifes gene ta existed between the regular soldier and the mill '. ea 7, l , oswhich it was very difficult, if not impossible, to ril e (Bear, hear.) They had seen it in Spain, and fo p had seen a more marked instance in the struggle lee e the independence of Prussia. Between 1813 and Co t t!'l'lle l audwehr was univevady organized, and great ' P r a u t s l i t Y existed between the landwehr and the regular an Besides that there was one or drawback to this, ys:em of embodying a militia affee4 °-tle t t tve industry of the country was directly might beby tee withdrawal—however shortly timed it atie 101•Pendi Y the withdrawal, unless imminent danger n their dom. , la, of such a large number of men from atio hotnes and the ordinary occupations of life. ' -- (Cheer 11014. se 8 f rom the Opposition.) It was for these rea • sin ; : 1 4 England in the happy enj .yment of the bliss g ot profound peace with an her neighbours., with every • E uropea n o b jen i. elate. that he ventured to record his bumble lona to this Bill. In an economical point of view, • ;;,vfgretted • t hi s vast expenditure of publ i c money, • _teti circumstan ces did not j ustify nor po li t i ca l expe • ; e 'eett necessitate.—((3ear, hear.) And be would re . to see thi s 3 0 10 e circu Bill abandoned, which, under the altered . ' . Instances of Government, he considered would be p e rf e ctly insifiable—nay, honourable—to her Majesty's l at ent Minister s . F urt h i r , b e ma i nta i ne d that, far • 27 4 b seen' ing peace, it would have a detect tendency to w ar) and that they might rest assured the men whom it Was ' • ee now propo se d to em b o dy wou ld b e not one iota lees • 71atble, without these summa drills and preparatory to respond with patriotic zeal to the call of ai r country when neerled.—kOueer , ) And tie was ;quite :: eertain that if any foreign force should attempt to Pollute these sacred shot. aof England—it any attempt should be made with in invading army to ravage, fire, b. SO Pillage, one ruling cry would re echo throughout L a !rY nook and corner of this island, one spirit would "hate every British heart and countleot thousands on the senthern coasts of England would d mend mutat - !lend° homage as a nation of warriors called together in !'2112011t sacred cause—that of national iedependence.— . (vehement cheering, tollewed by calls for a division.) Colonel CHATTERTON, as a military man, and in military point of view, begged to off-r a few observe * "'oils upon the matter now under discussion. He was quite aware of the diversity of opinion existing as to the itpediency of augmenting the standing army, or em . bodying the regular militia. He was quite aware of the Idtipopularity of the seldiery in this country, and also t hat Znelishmen did not understand their value; and he trusted they never would acquire that knowledge by the dear-bought experience of having a hostile force in pos session of any part of our country. He was quite con- Winced that his Right Hon. Friend had exercised a sound discretion in bringing forward his Bill, and it should have his warm support; but in doing so be would beg to Suggest some amendments fur the con-ideration of his Right Hon. Friend. J u d g i ng f rom t h e exper i ence h e had bad and • the period eri:odfthat not a little, he was quite convinced of training was ta r t oo li m ited. L i the short indeed leatrwentY-eight days an Englishman would tart' duty. * is l e e t rY little, if anything, of mili- Manufacturer ad jther the English peasant nor 'vice which Was 025 that apitude for military Ber th() continental nationtesed by the people of almost all recommend that three mo li nt e h a should, therefore, beg to as the period of drill, lit an for the first year of at least, be fixed upon en rolment, as that time ould events recruit into anything ltke w a mu: tary shape. He would , necessary to bring the also recommend the utandero for else, if it were continued at th e low, to be raised, inches, he feared his Rio n EF ,T . . Thr iz i size of 5 feet 5 weuld . find there deluged with a set of giments (of the first levy, at CZ ) • a bl e dissipated low, miser , creatures, with which our districts eboundad with • accout rements them, and totall • manufacturing, neither strength, stamina, nor cbaraotrfto unable to carry the heavy of a soldier, oit use with any eff , c t the se cumbrous a rms with which our infantry were encumbered. He begged to off-r thes e suggestions tor his ltgh e . t Hon. Pttend'a consideration and he would also take leave to ask what meal he the prowtion of' the most intendsd to adopt for , . onsintens, Ireland, ui a table part of her would doubtless carry in hie ree '- Majesty 3 a Right Hon. Friend a lection that that country had been thrice invaded by ° foreign enemy, and no doubt would again upon the first bPPOrtuuity. At pres ent she was quite in a defenceless As regarded the stat e , with ne ither army nor na v y . latter, the magnificent harbour of the city he had the honour to represent had only with a crew suffi one line-ef. battle ship there stationed, a 58 screw steamer, d o short-handed cleat to man half her 6 f or moment she co u l d not go to sea. He could not gang, and army in their ,-magine his Right Honourable Friend could doubt the Fayett e yof the bid' molten or fear putting hands in their own country; nor could he itchmen • the muchereceived opinion that excluelng bel panacea a su . bscribe to from the operation of this Bill was meant as a psna • to calm the w o u n d e d f ee li ngs o f Ireland at this exclu sib% He rejoiced at one advantage gained by this Bill, namely, doing away that most timeless and expensive e stablisbment, the militia staff. He ever thought. it a Most extravegant waste of the public money; keeping it hp as a nucleus upon which to form the militia was Perfect farce, compo.ei, as it was of, in general, old, fat, s on -commissioned officers, whose military ardour had long since evaporated— w h o wou ld h ave to com mence uencrvo all drib, to enable them to teach others the newly adopted military system, and even then they would Most likely be ineffective. He begged he might not be misunderstood; he dil not intend to cast either slur or i mputation upen the militia; on the contrary, he ho noured and respected that national force—he had seen their value and knew their utillty.—(Hear, hear.) His ,Right Honou ra ble Friend said, a few ev e ni ngs ago , t h at •h e had heard that some militiamen were at the battle Talavera in their militia uniforms. His Right kithn • Friend was perfectly correct, for ever since the Bill passed allowing the militia to volunteer into the line, the letter were admirably supplied with excellent `: 7 , c _ d atiteers. He a ssu red the House, in military parlance, Tat the army greatly regretted those gallant men .. !wed too late- "to be blooded" at that glorious, hard rought, and crown i ng v i ctory ; w h ere , no doubt, th e y would have proved that the militia, acting together, were equal in bravery and discipline to any of our ve teran troops. He hoped his Right Hon. Friend would excuse the suggestions he (Colonel Chatterton) had rah, and he t rusted the House would pardon him for °e"Piecl ratteh of their time in their exPrea -4191"-(149‘4 chem.) t , • • ~ r • ;. Mr. P. HOWARD should support the motion of her Majesty's Government,--(Ch,ter,) He had - supporeed the measure of tkte Nettle L trd late at the heal of the Government, and in that retearkeble division h e was a follower of the new fallen beuner. The Noble Lerch hevieg established the necessity of increasing the in ternal defence of this country,ee se some theC i tl question ino iorl di l( 6 ) c r at h i i o Ca n to consider was, whether, because in his measure had been made, he (Mr. P. fiewerdl should new be justified in pursuing si different cou rse , and voting against the measure ? In hie opinion it was impossible to do so with anything like coa sistency.—(Gbeers from the Ministerial benches.) Perhaps an increase of the regular army might be a more effec tic(' mode of providing for any danger, but it would be diffi cult, year after year, to maintain that addition to our force. During the riots in Lord G. Gordon's time the safety of the metropolis was owing not to the regular army, but in a great measure to the Northumberland readyxecu twhichi v t e o h rest om ig might Government,h e b e subjected a nd responsibility to oro incurf atuhnpi3s: political mmeilstivar. o oil d n i e u t h m wea t F4s o portieg the present measure.—(Hear, hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON thought that the course which fee Hon. Member who had just set down was about to teke was a mere emasistent course than that announced by smile who had preceded him. Amid the little rival schemes upon the paper, and the different objections, as various as the Honourable Gentlemen who had made them, to-the measure of the Government, he had been greatly struck and gratified by the tact that no gentleman had attempted to grapple with that proposition urged in such le markable terms by the Deka of Wellington in 1847, and adverted to by his Hon. Fiend behind him (Mr. Newdegate)— eelateh had bee n urge d b y t h e N o bl e Lord at the head o i the, late Government, et d was now pressed forward by the present Ministry, viz,, that the defences of this come ry were not such as in common._ prudence they tenths to be.—(Cheers.) After the speech of the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) he did not kn )tv how far he might consider him an exception to the; rale. But he must look to the high authority of the Dbke of Welling ton >is that upon which he must place more weight than upon the opinion of the Hen Baronet on this question; and looking ro the state of air/pi and the detences of this country, he thought we were in policy and prudence hound to take care that the defences of this country were more satistiwory than they were now.—(Cheers.) There appeared to prevail among the leading politic•ans a general opinion that the most constitutional and best mode of providing these defences was in some way or other by the old and approved plan of a militia force.— (Elear.) To the speech of the Honourable Member toe Leeminster ( 'de F. Peel) ho owned he had listened with verygreat surprise.—(Hear, and Ministerial ceeers.) Tout Hou. Gentle -Dal was a member of the late tio • vornment. He was one of those who sat oe the Trea sury benches when the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) urged, in torong and just language, that to which the members of the present Government took no exception. He was bound to suppose that else Hon. IleeVeer then thought with the Government, and that he was prepared to eupport them by his vote. Yet, it now appeered that the Hon. GeeVeinen was opp tied to the very principle of a Militia Bill.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Member fair Richmond (\Er. Rich) was now prepared to vote for reeding the 8.11 a second time that day six months; yet he also was a member of the late Government, and was, he must suppose, also prepared to vete on that occasion.— (Cheers.) This showed the effect of good discipline, that those Hon. Members should be prepared to support the late Government althoiagh they now oep iced the lilitia B111.—(A laugh.) The Honourable Member fur Richmond said that one of the objections to this Bill was that it would interfere with the industrious habits of the country. He (Sir J. Pakington) took the strongest objections to this mode of stating the ques tion. The first duty of every citizen of the Stive was to take care of the protection of property in it.—(Bear, hear.) By the Miliiie Bill this protection was proposed to be given upon the fairest terms, and if they looked to European countries and to the United States, where the rights and habits of freedom and industry prevailed to as great an extent as in any other country, they would find there the most stringent militia law,--(hear.) The lion, and Gallant Member for Westminster (Sir D. L. Evans) did not assert that the defences of the country were what they ought to be, and it was not upon such paltry points as he urged that the broad question of im proving the defences of our common country was to be placed. It was said we might strengthen our defences by recalling our troops from the colonies. But he hoped that this view would not be taken by the House, that because we were weak in one part of the empire, we' were to weaken the more distant parts of the empire. —(Elear, hear.) The Honourable Member for beganßich his argument with a view which he was surprised in°ud should proceed from a Member professing popular opinions. He said the House ought to be afraid of putting arms in the hands of the militia; that a danger of riot and disturbance might arise, and that then we should be sorry to have intrusted the militi a with arms. Now, he had no such fears.—(Cheers.) He believed there was no ground for such apprehen sions; nor could he subscribe to the Hoe. M nnber's other objections, that if Parliament passed this law and embodied the militia they would encourage drunken and nad habits among a loose and debauched portion of the people I; was impossible to say what class of volun teers might join and take the bounty, and we might have people of greater respectability than the Hon. Member supposed. But, if it were otherwise, were net the beer-houses open to these persons now, and would habits nI military discipline make them worse citizen" , and subjects than they were at present?—(ll ar.) He did not understand that the Hon. Member ter Man Chester was against a militia B;11, but oely that he wished to pos.pone it until next session of Parliament. —(A laugh.) But the notice be had read with the most surprise was that of the Honourable Mem ber for Westbury (Mr. Wilson), who said it was better to make an addition to the regu• lar army than to embody the militia. When he read the lion, Member's notice he could not help picturing to himself the reception which a proposition for adding 10 000 or 20,000 men to the standing army, if m'ade by the Geie etiusent , would have experienced from Hon. Gentlemen opposite—not excepting the Hon. Member fur Westbury hicnselt.—(Cheers and laughter ) Compared to an addition to the standing army the em bodiment of the militia possessed many advantages. lii the first place, the country obtained the services of 80,000 or 100 000 trulilarnen fur the came outlay which would make an addition of only 10,000 to the regular army. Then, uga, , n, the militia, when not embodied, cost the country nothing. The Noble Lord the Member for Ti. vertov had alio referred to another reason for preferring is militia force to an augmentation of the army, namely, that when a portion of the army was disbanded it could not be recalled. while the militia could always be ap pealed to in case of emergeucy.—(Rear, hear.) Past experience also proved that the meat expeditious and efficacious mode of adding to the army, in case of need, was by draugtiting from the militia men already eccustomed to military discipline. The Home had not, on the present occasion, been favoured with the views of the lion. Member for the West Riding and the Peace party, who believed that the action of armies could be superseded by arbitration. [hough he could not concur in the opinions entertained by those gentlemen, he nevertheless could understanii how they could consistently oppose the proposition of the Government, or any other plan for increasing our military establishments; but when the proposal of the Government was objected to by persons who, like the lion, and Gallant Member for Westminster, admitted that our national defences ought to be strengthened, the House was entitled to expect some better arguments in support of the objection than any which had been off-red in the course of the diecuision.—(Rear.) The plan of the Government was more free from objection than any other that had been suggested. The Noble Lord oppo site (Lord J. Russell) had, on more than one occasion, proposed the embodiment of the militia. He proposed it first, in 1848, when, as was understood, he was in duced to abandon it from financial considerations. The Noble Lord then stated, in the most explicit terms, his ~. . pinion as to the importance of embodying the militia. In the course of the present session the Nobk, Lord again proposed the same measure, and met with no opposition from the party with which he (Sir J. Paltington) acted. A difference of opinion arose as to whether the militia should be general or local, but to the proposition for the emn,diment of a militia no opposition was offored.—(Hear, hear.) Her klajests's Goverment con fidently believed that under their plan volunteers would be so numerous that, it would be unnecessary to resort to the ballot, except, perhaps, to a limited extent. The Government had framed their plans with the view of strengthening the defences of the coun:ry in the most economic .1 manner, and with the least pessitile derange ment of the industrial pursuits of the country.—(Herr, n _ p "ar.) Should the intentiomi exist of offering any serious (ins to the 0 positiun to th , ) Bill, he trusted that it would rest on ar g"aeuts were more worthy of the House and the subject than ~ ,r n Y n a,n ich had been urged. The Mt-misers of the ewera conscious of having discharged their (U. a ,.. ho oun A try in bringing this measure forward. lieved to upon theni, the proposed a tneuure which they b. , - h 7ti d titz under the responsibility imposed whether it ' , old be be!t c ' t t r . e h m e iined for the House to decide view, and it noW it eulated for effecting the object in leaving the country i n it i u d n .j . " l.ll his ow n o u the continent of Europe. the responsibility of the present sta'e F, o , t r o h, p , art he would not—in the defencele ss state in the face of nt i su r r to occupy —incur the (Rear, hear.) position which he had the wer.e—(Cheers.) responsibiiity of ebsta iv defences, I lion o , this roestsuro on the Reu:e m urgiu g the adop tion J. RUSSELL—If I h seco th nd read ingthink that the country requires 0. aZieti,-,o` Ithese who s hould probably b. n.ady to cons ent wo to ul t d be n c a ause me of this Bid. I might say that althou g sure was not required—althouqh it i wastene a - of ~,„e y , yet as no great mischief can arise from i t , and as tb ,4 G overnment had brought it forward on their wa s . willing that it should bo re a d because I feel that the a country ' ‘r defences--because thick I that its de requires turt.A. better organivd tltati they now arcrseec3,P,nudn'tiihnidiet';Y'hint it is fences ought to be reading ot . this Bill. , that I cannot consent to,thhe,; the ground that I secondbe lieve laughter continued fur of defence, an utter lieve it would prove, as a measare that —(Loud e o t u Un d ec.r)iesl°4;‘o°,tethbe Bill on we should God at delusion—because I am convinced }liar•) I object to the end of a year or two that it give any seouri . y to the country.—( ' • me to Lufl utt,rlv failed to the Bili for the same reason which wouli induce which would burst, or into the hands of c a valr y a : t . object to putting into the hands of infantry musketsw)rl.o which would break. I object to the Bill, because it is doing mischief to persuade Parliament and the country that you are providing for the defence of the coun try, when, in fact, you aro not doing so. I must beg the House to listen to ma while I state 1 wt:at I conceive to be the danger to be encountered, land what is wanting for that purpose in the present measure. I do not wish to be mixed up with those who entertain gpprehousioDA of tbc euddeu arrival in this dotintry of 50,060 hostile troops in a single night, and of an ainlyairching;tip to L andoa without notice. These ar6l7tiins which are foundeckupon panic rather than dii reasonable calculation.. I_Procae.d. only on the ground that we have near us a powerful nation with which we have engaged in warsfour times during the last century. About a century ago we went to war with France be cause she wished to obtain possession of our American colonies. About 20 years later we again engaged in war with France because she was disposed to detend our American rissesslons which had declared themselves in dependent of us. In 1793 we once more went to war with France because democracy prevailed in that country, and because we feared the spreading of the republican spirit of cenquest. In 1804 we engagedia hostilities with France because. she was then'stibjectee a pawerful and despotic Sovereign, and we dreaded the spiritof conquest under his sway. I cannot believe that national feeling has so much changed, that the passions of people are so much assuaged as to leave no probability of a war arising between the two countries. Then the question arises— what will you do to protect yourself against invasion, in the-event of hostilities occurring? Those who look to the history of formeiewars will find that they occurred more than once at a time when we were ill-prepared for hostilities, when our naval and military establishments were at an exceedingly low point, and that it was not until the second or third year of the war that we were able to make any great efforts against the enemy with whom we had to contend. It' we examine what has been going on in the world of late years, I am afraid we must come to the conclusion that the arts of war us well as those of peace have been much improved; and it is ;he opinion of all professional men that the operations of an armed force would be snore speedy and destructive than they were formerly. If that be the case, it will not be sufficient to refer to the fortunate chances which have hitherto saved this country from invasion. Steam now triunphed over the elements. I do eat wish to exaggerate the form which an invasion might assume. There might be 5,000, 10,000, or 15,000 m , n •landing from steamers at some part of the coast, and, at the same time, there might be four or five steamers landing more forces at another part of the country. Then • the question oc curs What force have we to meet • such an inva - ion?" And the answer must be—though my Hon. and Gallant Friend near me seems to think that our force is much greater than I estimate it—that we have not a sufficient farce to meet the circumstances of the case.—(Hear,) It appears that we have, including the Guards, but 24.000 inf entry in Great Britain, and 17,000 in Ireland, in all 41,000. As to bringing over these 17,000 troops from Ireland, I tnink any Elecutive Government would hardly venture on such a measure, seeing that, if there was an invasion of this country, nwhing would be more likely than that it would be followed very soon by an in vesion of Ireland also.—(Rear.) To do so would be taking a most improvident Course, and one which would probably be attended with very calamitous results. I must come, then, to the conclusion teat the 24,000 in fantry in Great Britain and the 17,000 infantry in Ire land, with a force not very considerable of cavalry, is not sufficient to meet the evil with which we have to contend. Here I must, at the halerd of wearying the House on that subject, refer to the measure which the late Go vernment proposed, with the- view of providing the means of additional' efence. The Itight Hon. Gentleman who spike last, as well as some others . who pre, ceded him, seemed to be in some doubt as to the.cha rawer of that measure, saying at one time that there was but little difference between that measure and the pre sent—though if it be so, I may ask how was it that they would not allow the late Government to introduce their Bill, there being so slight a difference between them.— (Hear, hear.) Or if they . take the other side and say there is a difference of principle—which is indeed the fact—between this measure and the one which we were prepared to introduce, then how can they object to our viewing their measure with as much repugnance as they received ours?—(Hear, hear.) Now, in considering this measure which I proposed to introduce, it seemed to me, and to those who approved of it, that there are two ways in which men may become very good soldiers and fit to defend their country. Tho one is when men of high spirit and character, moved by some strong religious or political feeling, or excited by the love of their country, or by any danger eminently threatening their country, are induced to become soldiers. Of that description of men was the force which Cromwell, with his usual sa gacity and knowledge of mankind, raised and com manded himself, and which he brought to a state of dis cipline that enabled him to defeat the bravest and most spirited cavaliers of the royal force.—(Hear, hear.) Such a force was the 400,000 men who at the beginning of this century started up as volunteers to defend this island against what they believed would be the inva sion of a despot who would destroy our independence. — (Hear, hear.) Of such a description of force were those who of late years, in Hungary, fought in defence of their country when they were attacked by the whole force of Austria and Russia.—(Hear, hear.) But there is another mode in which our soldiers have usually been raised, and our army constructed, and that mode is by taking young men of unsettled. dispositions, who have a love of military adventure, who have not perhaps any decided character, but who, by military discipline and habits of subordinations, are 'brought to be excellent soldiers and ready to perform the greatest feats of arms. —(Hea,r,hear.) With respect to this latter description of character we have some information from an autho rity who has been quoted to-night, and whose words I will lay before the House. Washington says of men like these:— "It takes you two or three months to bring new men acquainted with their duty; it takes a longer time to bring a people of the temper and genius of these into such a aubordiunte way of thinking as is niviessary for a soldier." And again, "To bring men to a proper degree of (rubor dinetion.ie not the work of a day, a month, or even a year."—( Hear, hear.) To the same effnt in one of Mr. Pitt's speeches at the commencement of this century, we find him saying that six weeks or two months is the least that any military man requires to make a soldier. Now, these being the different ways in which soldiers are made, our Bill went on the principle of taking men of spirit, and of independent character, and asking them without any bounty ea become part of the militia force of the country.—(Hear, hear.) But as this kind of ser vice is a very great hardship on the community, soften it as you will, seeing that it diverts men from the walks of industry, we endeavoured to tem per its conditions with every sort of alleviation that we could devise. In the first place, we said we will not take married men—we will not take men from the age of 25 to 35, most of them married and settled in life—but, we will take young men from 20 to 21 years of age. For the first year we proposed to take men from 20 to 23, but afterwards those only from 20 to 21.—(Hear.) Tnis made a great limit, and confined . those who might undertake serv ice for a short time the ballot to a class of men.who wer e not settled in life— toand afterwards engage in industrial occupations.— (Hear.) In the second place we said, these men in or dinary circumstances should not.be moved out of their own counties. We did not propose to take them to a distance; but, in the third place, we said this, that even in the case of invasion, or of eminent danger of invasion, they should be taken for six months, or at most for one year only, to defend their country.—( Hear.) Now, considering the age of these men, and the time they were to serve , I think there was much of alleviation of hardship in th ese three con ditions; and that you might expect, in the case of inva sion, that such men would not object to go for one year away from their homes, to have their places then sup plied by the regular army, and afterwards be able to re turn and take to such trades and occupations as - they wished to follow.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") So cone vinced was I of the necessity of putting in conditions of this kind, and not resorting to the regular militia, with its- old form of ballot, that when the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton proposed to resort to' the old form of militia, I declared at once I would be no party to introducing that measure. (Hear, hear.) I said it was no slight or insignificant alteration that was proposed to the House, but a change of the whole prin ciple of the measure, that I would not introduce it myself, and, if introduced by another, that I would feel myself at liberty to oppose the second reading. (Hear, hear.). Now let us consider the measure that has been introduced by the Government; it is a measure worthy of our consideration, because it is the first coin from the golden ore from which the Noble Lord at the head of the Government seemed to think he would derive such great riches. (A. laugh.) I must say, however, that in the present case there is considerable alloy, and that he will hardly find it of such value as he supposes. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) In the first place, this measure loses the advantage of either of the principles which I have mentioned. What I say is, either form a force that you can depend upon from their high spirit wad great love of country, or on whose enthusiasm and morel energy you can rely; or else form soldiers by dint of discipline, not caring from what source you get them. But in the present case you have neither the one advantage nor the other. In the first instances, the motive you propose is entirely mercenary. You recommend tha 61. of bounty shall be given to those who enlist. By offering this 61. you will naturally get those men who are most in want, who are most needy, and who have ^ the least prospect of rising in the world, or obtaining sufficient wages or salary to enable them to live in comfort. Such men, no doubt, do make excellent soldiers; they are every day makieg excellent soldiers; but it is because they are subjected to the discipline of the army.--(Hear.) When a man who indulges in a restless disposition, and habits of idleness or drunkenness, is brought under the excel lent discipline of the army, he is taught' that when on duty he must be sober, when on guard he must be vigilant, and that at all times he must be obedient, and thus the restless and unsettled young man of eighteen becomes at twenty an excellent and obedient soldier.— (Rear, hear.) What he becomes, indeed, has been advantage. seen very lately in the accounts we have of those t hvee° t ys h the were St h il e l r t was than as brave men who, when the unfortunate vessel in which of l thers.—(Hear, hear.) partticvvuelnatry.poluacee rhuen th e risk willingly o of sacrificed endangering the lives wn But you expressly avoid. this to his Having got the man whom you can °Wak e easily by money from any quarter—for there is nothil,g unsettled and restless ;-having taken that man, you drill b ins say must be a settled inhabitant of 'wry ays, and then let him off to have re course for that former habits, and to relapse into that strikes one is, hear.) The first impression which t iri this h man will never be a good h mode of life that induced t A im to soldier, and that heao_tatiat you mosfy your rb4 ably yailinnogt ma work, p3enaps, him out to drill any the case 0 itoeept yo h m a r .h b it o s u a n n ty d o Ilea a r y hear.) Let hasfiwlaadn lad ad of him --( Hear,ht n i o in n t y o gthat inducedsomewhere him else —to part :he same he, iu the mi a railway in Canada, or to servo, it on litia of Illinois or Arkansas.—( that a f r as k t his House, is . .0 Ce upon- which - me t o b s i i s og i that d can sefely rely?—(Hear, hear.) N ow, su i s country some 80,000 men landed ins distant an d oppose, th4t the C°lalnandeNn-Chict V.', the an should wish to keep what army he had at -no great dis- Lance from the ca.pieal, and from our southern coast. would - it be sate or wise to collect 10,000 or 12,000 meta of this character in order to oppose a force disciplined in the highest degree, who had been in Algeria, in the actual practice of war, and under an able commander, prepared to attack a ay army that maybe brought before them ?—(llear.) I believe you will be totally deoivel if you expect good service from melt men. It would be quite a different thing if you had the men whom we pro posed by our Bill—men of a vest different character, settled in their different places of abode, and who, when drawn for the service, would enter up in it, with a proper mcniie and spirit.—(Hear, hear,) But then there is another part of_ the Bill, which contains the ballot. I should - say of the Bill-that - it consists of two parts, one of which is inefficient, and the other oppressive.--(Heer, hear.) All the beginning part, which offers this money of 61. for bounty, or 2s, 6d. a-mgrth for volunteers, by wbich yon might get a pauper militia, is certainly not opPressive, hut would he inefficient. But when you come to the other part of the Bill—to the ballot--you have then a ballot comprehending persons from 18 to 35 years of age, which evculd therefore interfere with persons engaged in all the various occupations of the country, and which takes the married men who are already successful in that way of life in which they are skilled.—(Great laughter.) Yes; in the Case of the weaver, for instance, or any other man who has some skill in the industrious arts, you take him from his oc- cupation -and send him to serve for five years as a soldier, and thereby inflict a very great hardship on him.—(Hear, hear.) No ma n can well deny that to take a man of 30,- ! 3', or 31 y ears of age, who is a l rea dy settled in life, an d to tel l hi m th a t for te tl andt five r z g should b e a soldier, was a g r e at y p r e s r prospering interference with the ordinary occupations of life; and nothing but the greatest em ergency could j ust ify you in so acting. I am so convi nce d o f this, that I am mper suaded, as I stated at the comenenceent, that you will not have tried your measure for a year without finding that the country will resist such needless oppression and oblige tee Parliament, by their remonstrances, to repeal it.--(Hear, hear.) I am now talking in reference to the contingency which I think most likely to happen, that though you might have a great deal o f mo ney to spare, and though, possibly, you might ply 300,000/. in the way of bounty in the present year for 50,000 men, yet, in the next year, you would find that you would not hav e 4 f orce o f 80,000 men, which you expect, but would be obliged to have recourse to the ballot to supply the numbers. These, therefore, are reasons which induce me to think that the would be so great and so present Bill is very improperly fremed for its purposes; appertainiug to the old militia, which the late Govern every ono of the propositions in the Bill a and I am the more inclined to say so ment considered and deliberated on, and deliberately representedre jected.—(Hear, in this House, that the be able to defend such a measure. or,ec because tpioonps 0 almost lthioanv es jected.—(Hear, hear.) They felt the overwhelmingG stated, over n amuedn Government h w e y owuh f l e ed i n t n t o h t at Therefore the late Government refused to bring for v.aid a measure of that kind. The present Government, however, somewhat thoughtlessly, and without entering into the consideration of all the c ircumstances I have referred to, and without reflection, have adopted all ffinselpropoeitions. A question, and a very serious one, then occurs,,aud it is thist—Supposing it be true, as I say, that we cannot be exempted from the dan ger o f war, and if war arises that wo cannot have the same provi sions to meet it as, wo formerly have had— supposing some force should be required for the defence of the country (and this measure doe s not give you the pros pect of such a force), what is the course which this litni nlee i t i t ug r is n ht to o doubt ptirsu one I say, in the first pl ace , t h at thefor the consid erat i on of the Government. It would not do , a s th e Right Hon. Gen tleman who last spoke seemed to imply , if the House re jected this particular measure,' with all the particular clauses, objectionable as they are—it would not d o f or the Government then to say that, therefore, this House does not care for the defence of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It is the bounden duty of the Ministers of the Crown either to produce a measur e w hich they think suffic hic ie w ntio h I took, rthed andefenee of the country, o r ta k e the course say, " We will no longer con tinue at the head of the affairs of t he n ation. — (" Hear," e o t vasdaoidpt. that and laughter.) We all know t ha t is not the course The Ne was willing to submit to any humiliation , to any d egree whichoble Lordthe aptr theese a n t e a G d Government r t n h m e Government er mean nme t not of affront and mortification—( 4 No. no") — to any degree of mortification—rather than advise the dissolution of Parliament sooner than be thought necessary.—(H ear, hear.) That is what the Noble Lord stated. I am going to make an inference—my own—that he is to assemble Parliament again in October, and until that Parlia ment was assembled he would not think of resign ing his present situation. In short, the present Ministers are like pheasants, not to be killed until after the Ist of October.—(Greet laughter.) That is their position; and no vote of this House can affect their offi cial situations. Then, I say, that they cannot get rid of the other obligation .to propose such measures to the House as they think necessary for the defence of the kingdom. They can hardly say that the present means for the defence of the nation are ample and sufficient, and they are therefore bound to declare, after what they have stated, if this measure does not suit the House, that they have other measures by which the country can be adequately defended. In respect to the little I have to say, I speak, of course, only as an individual Member, without the sanction of any one but myself ; but, for my own part, I should not recommend the Government to make a large increase to the standing army.—(Bear, hear.) I du, however, think that there are other mea• sures, partly suggested this evening, by which a much larger three might be engaged for the defence of the country than exists at present. I think a much larger force might be obtained in time from a proper organi zation of the pensioners. That was dwelt on by my Honourable Friend who spoke early in the debate. Sup posing that the House has rejected the present Bill, and that the Government will not propose that plan of mi litia which I sketched out at the commencement of the session (for, if that plan was proposed, I should give it my support, from whatever quarter it might pro ceed, as being the best measure), I then have to consider what other measures should bo adopted. I should say that you cannot for some years obtain a sufficient force of pensioners, even by giving a discharge with a pension to those soldiers who have served fourteen or fifteen years; and I should say it would be advisable to have a force of some 10,000 or le,ooo embodied militia. The present Bill is not a measure for embodying militia ex cept in case of war or imminent danger thereof; but it you had 10,000 o? 12,000 embodied militia in Great Britain and Ireland, drilled aed disciplined, then you have a force as serviceable for the object in view as the regular army. But it might be said that it you have this force, it would bo at tho same expense as the regular army, and therefore would it not be better to have an increase of the regular army? I, however, think that there would be a 'great advactago in having the ,em bodied militia in preference io an increase of the regular army. In the first place,. the increase of the army is liable to the objection that if the army should be augmented by 10,000 men for one year, the next year might be a year of dist ress, and then there would arise a great cry for economy; rind we should be called on for the reduction of that force.—(Hear, hear.) I do not believe, however, if you had a regular force of militia such as 1 have mentioned; that the principle of the mili tia would be abandoned, or that you would be asked to reduce that force, unless you had other means of de fence. Again, when you increase the regular army, th great part of that increase, unless you should make pro visions to the contrary, would be sent to regiments in the colonies, end, perhaps, to colonies which do not require further defence, and thus the increased number of the soldiers would not be for the defence of the United Kingdom. I am not for diminishing to a great degree, the force maintained in the colonies, but still the plan adopted by the late Government, and which they were about to carry further, might be proceeded with; for in stance, you may diminish your force from time to time in certain colonies not being military garrisons, and thereby obtain some 6,000 or 7,000 men for the defence of the United Kingdom, These, with the 10,000 mili tia I have just reforrod to, and the 4,000 men proposed to be added to the army in this year, would make a force of 21,000 men in addition to the present force; so that, instead of the 41,000 infantry now in Great Britain and Ireland, we should have a force of 62,000. I think that we may then assume that the 15,000 pensioners may, without any great difficulty be increased in no long time to 20,000, and so by these mea ns you would have a force of 80,000 men; and I think, with the artillery and cavalry, you might main tain a force of about 100,000 men in the United King dom. This calculation is based upon the supposition that a certain amount of embodied militia would be esta blished; and then there is no part of the force I have mentioned, tho whole of which would bo effective, which might not be used at any moment, at the commencement of war, for the defence of the kingdom. I believe, also, our forces could be rendered more efficient by better ar rangements with respect to our military depots. Those who see the estimates of cur forces on paper do not con sider, perhaps, that part of those forces, consisting of small bodies of troops, and sometimes the skeletons of regiments just come home, exhausted by the fevers and the unhee ithiness of other climates, is hardly fit for any military operations; but I think that a better arrange ment of our depots, and the giving them (as we under stow]) officers permanently attached to them, might mak', that part of the force more efficient. In this way I think yeti might obtain a much larger force for the de fey co of t h e kingdom than you have at present. It appears to me that the- United Kingdom is the citadel of this great empire, rind that therefore you ought to take means to secure it from surprise and injury. It has so happened that in the dangers to which this country has been exposed the winds' and storms have defended it, and that adverse invaders have been driven off by the force of gales, but that in the case of the only in vasion intended for the happiness of England—that of 'William llL—the elements favoured it. In the present state of science and improvement, h owever, an enemy attacking our shores would no longer have to depend on the favour of the winds, and we could not say that some eight or ten steam ers might not be c o ll ecte d , carry i ng 1,500 or ") -, 000 men each, prepared to take the chance of au expedition ag ainst this country.--(Elear, hear.) am persuaded, if su ch an event should happen, that the injury done would b e far more than t h e i mmed i ate loss; that the people o f this couut ry, brave a s th ey are, wou ld be struck by so u„eepected_an occurrence, and if any long time should elapse before the invading force were captured or driven from our shores, th a t t h e apprehen sions entertained by persons en gaged i n commerce an d peaceful Pursuits w ould cause an irreparable l oss . H av ing this persuasion, I was undoes to see a good measure of do• fence provided.lint _ I am extremely sorry th a t t h e p rese nt G over nment have brought forward a measure which It, I consider so objectionable. was my int en ti on to have supported the second r eading of this Bill—(H ear , h ea r,, and a loud cry of ge! ,, from Colonel Sibthorp)--in the hope that it might h a ve been amended i n C omm ittee, cad ma d e a Bil l ten ding to the sect; ity of tbe country. If that had been the ease I should have been glad to have voted with the Hon. and Gallant Mernher for Lincoln--(Hear, and cries of Order, order")—esho has taken _that view of the merits of this that although objectioneLle in some respects he is in -favour_ of seeing it go into Committee. But I am persuaded that, at the present time especially, while it would be most difficult to frame amendments which wore conso nant with the spirit of the Bill, it would on the other hand be exceedingly difficult for the Government to ac cept a measure which would require that total alteration which I think this one requires. I have, therefore, come to the opinion that, thinking the measure totally futile end inefficacious, believing that it will not be a good and efficient defence to the country, I shall vote for the amendment, and against the further progres of the Bill. Lord PALMERSTON—I had hoped that when this House was called upon to consider a measure which had been admitted in its principle, at least, if net in its de tails—in its object if not in its provisions—by all par ties, by both sides of the House—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial side, and counter cheers from the Opposi tion) —by the Government that was, and by the Govern ment that is, to be essential for- the best interests of the country, the measure would have been discussed solely with a view to the defence and security of the realm, and that no party feeling—(Tremendous cheering and coun ter cheering)—that no party feeling would have mixed itself up with the discussion of the present night.—(Re newed cheers.) I confess, Sir, it is with much surprise and with still greater pain that I have witnessed the line which the Noble Lord and those of his followers — (Cheers and counter cheers)—have thought it their duty to take on the present occasion. The Noble Lord, in deed, more practised in Parliamentary warfare, has stated his objections with much greater discretion and skill. His intended rejection of the measure is not the less positive and announced.—(Further cheers.) But the two Honourable Gentlemen (members of the former Government) who spoke in the early part of this debate, advanced arguments and stated objections which went as strongly against that tonsure which no doubt they would have supported if the last Government had continued in power, as'they would pos sibly apply to the measure which is now under discus. sion ; and I must say I wonder the Noble Lord should have finished the statement he made without reproach ing his Hon. Friends for their desertion of that standard under which they had fought under his command.— (Hear, and laughter.) I must beg to set right at once an assertion which the Noble Lord has repeated to night, and which he has often stated before—that ho was prevented by the motion I made and carried from bringing in the Bill which he had stated his inten tion to propose.—(Cheers.) My motion produced no such effect, except that of determining the Noble Lord to resign.—(elseers and counter cheers.) If I had pro posed that the resolution should be read that day six months—if I had proposed a negative to the resolution —that no resolution should be bronght in—then it would have been true I had opposed and prevented the bringing in of the Bill ; but the object and effect of my motion was simply to make the title of the Bill in harmony with the provisions the Noble Lord himself had stated, and there fore I deny the assertion that the motion I made pre vented the Noble Lord from bringing in his Bill. The late Government, after maturely considering the state of the national defences, came deliberately to the opinion that a militia force of some kind was necessary for the defence of the realm—(Hear, hear)—but we have now hoard from the Noble Lord that a militia force is not the proper force—(Loud cheers and counter cheers)—that it would be far better to have a small amount of embo died militia—better to add to your pensioners, and va rious other methods, by which it is proposed to have 100,000 men in the permanent pay of the United King dom for the purpose of defending the realm. That was not the measure which the last Government, upon full deliberation, proposed, and which, being, as they had foreseen, negatived, they thought the refusal w a s of such paramount importance that they could not think they could longer, with credit to themselves, hold the admi nistration of affairs.—(hear.) With regard to the mat ter itself, I must say I think great ignorance prevails in the country both as to the inadequate state of oar defences and as to the real reality of the danger to which we are exposed. Tho Noble Lord has very fully explained how impossible it is, notwithstanding the peaceful na ture—the friendly nature—of our relations with foreign powers, to reckon with confidence that some unforeseen event may not, from year to year, take place which may put you in a position in which you cannot either resent insult or injury, or submit to invasion. Many persona out of doors, who discuss this matter, seem to think the question of peace or war depends on the opinion of one party alone—that it is in the power of any country whe ther they should remain peaceable or should take up arms in their defence. But that question depends not upon one party alone, but upon those from whom aggression may be expected—(Hear, hear)--and it has been stated by many lion. Gentlemen, and the Hon. Member for the West Riding has been reminded to-night that ho himself enumerated various occasions in the course of the last f e w years, in which this country was brought into a po sition in which war might have been unavoidable. Now, if war be an event against the possibility of which you cannot provide, then we must consider whether as to that country especially which, without any unfriendly feeling towards ft, or without at all anticipating the real arrival of an event that may place us in hostility with it, we must nevertheless regard as one of the Powers with which possibly we may perhaps be involved in war, circumstances have occurred of late years which might have some effect on the offensive feelings that might arise. I have hoard many say, " Why alarm yourselves about the chances of war; we have never been invaded since Heaven knows when? We have during the last thirty or forty years been in perfect tranquillity. Bonaparte tried to invade us in 1804, and we alt know how difficult were his preparations to make, and that it would have been easy to have defeated them;" but when they refer to that former state of things as a proof we need be under no alarm as to the possibility of invasion now, it is as it a person told me that, some thirty or forty years ago, it took three days and nights to come from Edinburgh to London, therefore it was impossible to come now in twelve hours—(Hear, hear) —that because, thirty or forty years ago a person in Dublin was for weeks without receiving any direct intel ligence from London, therefore it was impossible now communications might be transmitted, as I have no doubt they will be, from one town to the other in as many minutes as formerly it took days, especially in the pre valence of the westerly winds. It augurs an entire forget fulness of the improvements made in modern times for any man to argue from what happened 30 or 40 years ago that it might happen now. The application of steam to navigation has in effect made a bridge over the chan nel and has brought the means of quick attack —an at tack on a scale of great magnitude which did not exist before.—(Hear.) But it is said we should know before hand if any preparations were made. I say you might not know—(Hear, hear)—because, by the internal ar rangements of railways the distribution of troops is such that 50,000 or 60,000 men might be collected at Cher bourg before you knew anything of the matter; and those who have seen what those immense works ero,must be perfectly aware that a number of men could walk from the quay into their vessels as easily as they could walk into their barrack-yard.—(Hear, hear.) A night would bring them over, and all oar naval preparations, be they what they might, could not be relied on to prevent the arrival of such an expedition, as no batteries or gun boats we might have on our shores could be relied on to prevent the landing of the expedition when it had ar rived.—(Hear, hoar.) The history of all times and all nations, and the history of our own nation in especial, proved that a large force, when it is determined to land, will land against all opposition whatever.—(hear.) Be sides, can you reckon that the invading force shall be one, and directed against one point only.—(Hear.) There aro many points against which an expedition may con currently sail; one portion of the force might land in Ire land, another on a distant part of our own island, while a third, designed for the metropolis, might land on the coast over against the metropolis.—(Hear, hear.) Our limited garrisons would be, in such a case, divided and distracted—(Hear, hear)—if we heard of an expedition landing in Ireland, everybody would say, " Send all the forces to Ireland," and then an expedition landing on the southern coast would not find a force adequate to resist it.—(Bear, hear.) I therefore say, that the pre sent amount of the standing army, adding the pensioners —excellent troops, but who from their condition, being men past the prime of life, have not the respired activity of frame, and the extent of the augmentation of whom, moreover, has been greatly exaggerated,—but, including all, regular troops and pensioners, the amount of our standing army, I say, is not sufficient to meet an emer gency of that kind. As to the marines, on whom some gentlemen count, they would be required to go on board ship, and cannot, therefore, be reckoned on as part of the home garrison.—(Hear, hear.) There are two ways in which the deficiency I speak of may be made good l We may add materially to our standin g army, but , for one, am utterly opposed to such au addition.— (Hear, hear.) Tu make that addition to our regular army would require an am o u nt of expenditure which the country would not bear , and which the country ought not to bear.—(Hear, hear.) Tue othe b r at w a a n y organization of a militia, is the meaning by, t tra i ne d only of reserve, or body of men drilled and for a portion of the year, and which wouldnotctorsutettpss one-tenth of what au equa l number of regular hriecg else e would cost; so that for the e xpenditure tu for tb w e might have an additional, say, 8,000 men army, we might have 80,000 militiamen trained.—(hear, hear.) Adopt the planof en? I'll tell 8,000 regular troops, and what would p samePthing would o l a y d d P i a n r g t you what would happen; just the uul happen to these 8,000 men that .. w . edundant where as it is said, r colonial troops, who being,TO° Hon. Mem d happen to the they are, it is proposed to have hu h r ome. ber for Montrose, or some Other of the troops now in gentleman, has pro sbsearllainh.r G th e e at c l o e: posed to have a large proporti the colonies sent home, as beinge,unsundecet lonies; but let them come ohrto k ee p them as addi man would next propose, tion to the borne garrison,rl:bubet atro.)disAbaandd so e n i d t gwebturlidd be them immediztely. — regular troops I have with the 8,000 su gemthe House, feeling deeply for the pp ( l Etea entary pointed to. SalVes-net e o f ou r permanent defences, moment the inadeq isee were to agree to addthis.uBeo,opo?bourmlo,ooo men to the regular ' year, perhaps next army, you would k© L year, but in the third 3ear there would recur a feeling of a h s ad th c e o roi economy, and gentlwemereengwteotualdpsfaotreL`wvaeshf.e in vasion; these men them;” they Auld be dis s no invasion we don't wan banded, cud then for all purposes of defence they would be just as though they had never been under arms. you have 80,000 .militiamen trained this year But, if and the next, oven supposing that in the third year some a bad harvest, a detective revenue mo tives of econo m y , , or seine other occ urrence should induce t he House to w i t hd ra w the annu al vote for the training of this m ilitia, we s hould still have a valuable result for our expenditure; we should have 80,000 men partially trained, armed, equipped, enregimented, enrolled, and liable to be called out at ten days' notice, should danger present itself.—(Hear.) I say, therefore, that 80,000 militiamen would ee a more valuable addition to our military force than 8,000 men added to the regular armee—(Host.) For these reasons lam of opinion that _this ie a good measure—(Hear)—and, really, what is the difference - bctween — the present meaauressand flea measure which the late Government made a vital gut s tion?—(Hear.) The characteristic of that measure vies, that compulsory service was the rule, and voluntary service - the exception. What is the characteristic of-the present measure? That voluntary service is thorule and compulsory service the exception.—(Dear.) The ground, therefore, on which the late it is Government hot g e o o e m s p i u n hor op posing the present measure is, that enough—(Hear)—that it relies, in the first instance, on voluntary enlistment; that it does not compel people to serve, and is not, therefore, a measure calculated to _meet the oneasion.. I have heard of' a great many meet ings in different parts of the country, where objections were urged against the proposed militia; but the gene rality of these objections turned on the ballot. The No ble Lord says that his ballot differed from the other - ballot ; but ho has not explained in what instance it did. His ballot is accumulated on one class of the community, whereas the ballot now proposed is not only deferred, but is spread over various ranks. — (Hear; hear.) The Noble Lord says that his was a dis criminative ballot, the result of which would be all good men, moral men, well-conducted men, who would all return home properly to their families when dismissed, whereas the other ballot would produce only bad subjects. —(Laughter.) I am, myself quite at a Las to conceive in what respect the Noble Lord's ballot is more discri minative than any other; or how he can conceive that a ballot, in its nature compulsory, and which only in special instances can be avoided by substitution, can he more oppressive to the country than a ballot which only likely in t o e x o t e r c e u m r ( e cl a rt,fhloos Douse s 0 hear.) cases tol t bear eswa• said, ra i e at e a a l s l e .— s, a oC re eU h r o s t and, by the by, I must — request u se mind that argument of those who proposed the last measure, thst they were not altogether in harmony with each other, any more than the provisions of the Bill with its tide; for while, on the one hand, the measure announced by the First Minister of the Crewn went, at last, on the principle of allowing substitutes to serve, I remember that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre tary-at-War, and afterwards President of the Board of Control, argued at great length, and evidently with a strong force of conviction, against substitution at all, saying that substitutes were good for nothing, were fellows who would pocket the money for becoming sub stitutes, and then, when they were really wanted would vanish, and become altogether uncomeatable. Now, I have not such an opinion of Englishmen,—(Cheers.) I believe you would not find SO,OOO men in this country who would take the bounty and then go off to America. —(llear, hear.) I may, in the simplicity of my nature —(Loud laughter on both sides of the House)—have too good an opinion of people—( Laughter)—but I do not be lieve, making those abatements which must be always made fur occasional defaulters in great bodies of the people—there are defaulters even in this body, some times, when there is a call of the House—(A laugh—l do not believe that, if you proceed to raise men by vo luntary enlistment for this army of reserve or militia— call it what you will—you will find the men whom you have enrolled, who have taken the oath of allegiance, would absent themselves from the call of the country in the hour of danger.—(Cheers.) I therefore look on this measure as one calculated to do essential good to the State.—(Hear, hear.) But, even if I thought there were come portions of the measure which might bo im proved, this would be no reason why I should refuse it a second reading.—(Hear, hear.) That would be a rea son why I should propose amendments in Committee— (Herr, hear)—but if I believed that the defensive force of the country was inadequate—if I believed, as we have forcewould was bec a become just heard, t h at occas i ons may occur in which additional threes force n desirable ecessary to o f have, ar b e e , lie a v h e d d if I thata militia had staked my political and legislative existence on a measure to ithat purpose, I might think a particular militia measure might be better in some respects than it at present was, but I should vote for its second reading and pass it into Committee, in a friendly spirit, with a view to i m p rove it—(gear) —and I should not endeavour to throw the measure out, or especially in the existing state and condition of Parlia ment, postpone, at all events, the initiation of a mea sure which in its principle I had proved, by retiring from office on the question, I deemed to be of paramount importance.—(Hear, hear.) Ido hope that the example which has been set by two members of the late Go vernment will not be followed by others—(llear, hear) —I hope there are no other men, who, having been prepared to vote for a measure involving mainly com pulsory service, will object to the measure before us be cause it is mainly a voluntary measure—(Hear, hear) —who, having been prepared to vote for a local militia, now object to this measure because it is based on a re gular militia.—(Hear.) The difference between the measure of the late Government and that of the present Government consists rather in name than in reality; if there be any difference, it is in favour of this measure, inasmuch as this measure is founded on voluntary en listment mainly, whereas the other is liable to the ob jection that its essential basis was that of compulsory service. —(Hear, hear.) Mr. MOFFATT moved the adjournment of the debate till Monday, and, Atter a few words from Colonel SIBTHORP, the mo tion was agreed to. The House then went into Committee upon the Re payment of Advances Acts Amendment (Ireland) Bill. Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to without amendments. On clause 3, which provided that the Treasury might cause erroneous charges to be corrected, Mr. CLEMENTS proposed an amendment, with the view of enabling the Commissioners, if it should appear to them expedient, to alter the number of years for which the annuities charged on the electoral divisions had been fixed. Lord NAAS objected to the amendment, on the ground that it would re-open a question which had already been settled, and would create great inconvenience and con fusion. After some discussion, the amendment was negatived without a division. This and the remaining clauses of the Bill were then agreed to, and the House resumed. On the order of the day for going into Committee on the Improvement of Towns (Ireland) Bill being read, Lord NAAS observed, that as the measure was of a very complicated nature and was likely, he believed, to meet with considerable opposition, he begged to move that the order be discharged. The motion was agreed to, and the order was dis charged accordingly. The Sheep. &c., Contagious Disorders Prevention Bill, the Poor Relief Act Continuance Bill, and the Exche quer-bills (17,742,8001.) Bill were severally read a third time and passed. Sir W. JOLLIFFE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to continue an Act for authorising the application of highway rates to turnpike roads. The Hon. Baronet also obtained leave to bring in a Bill for further continuing certain tem porary provisions concerning ecclesiastical jurisdiction in England. The Bills were brought in, and were read a first time. Mr. lIERRIES moved the re-nomination of the Select Committee on Indian territories. Mr. ANSTEY objected to the motion, on the ground that the selection or Members to constitute the Com mittee was one-sided. The Committee comprised seve ral Members of the East India Company, three of whom were directors, while he looked in vain for the name of the Hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright), and the Hon. Member for the Tower Hamlets (Mr. G. Thomp son), both of,whom, it was well known, took great in terest in Indian affairs. He thought it was pretty clear what the character of the report would be, and that that proposed inquiry would, under the circumstances, be no thing but a mockery. The Committee as proposed was one in which the people of India ought not to have, and would not have, the slightest confidence. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD moved to strike ou t one of the )Moore), in names proposed (and selected M that of Mr. order to substitute that of Mr. Anstey. i Mr. BERRIES observe d that that lion. and Learned Committee, and Member opposed the appointment of the said he believed it woul d be use less. e atived, and the Com mittee Scholefield's motion w • as % g as follows:—Mr. Her mittee was appointed, constitute Lord John Rus sell, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, m ties, Sir Charles Wood, , r. sell, Mr. Baring, Labouchere Sir James N e wdegate, r. Gladstone, Mr. Thompson, Graham, Mr. Alderman Sir William Moles worth, v Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Vicount Jocelyn, Vis count Mahon, 2ar- Cobden, Mr. Hardinge, Mr. Milner Gibson, Si r James Emerson Tennent, Mr. Mangles, Sir James Hogg, Mr. Hume, Mr.Bankes, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Robert Ililyard, Mr. James Wil son, Mr. Moore, Sir Edward Colebrooke, Mr. Plowden, Mr. d Mr. Cardwell. The an Th e House adjourned at five minutes past One o'clock, HUSH RAILWAYS. COMPLETION OF THE DUBLIN AND BELFAST JUNCTION RAILWAY.-011 Monday, whe n th e morn i ng mail-train a rrived at Wellington Inn (whence it was dispatched by road to Newry, and thence to Mullaghglass station, two miles north of Newry, the intermediate part of the line is not yet completed), a trial trip took place over the new works of the railway comprised in the foregoing line. Sir John Macneill, with four of the directors, proceeded by engine over nearly the entire space, and, we under stand, expressed his satisfaction at the manner in which the works were executed. The directors expect to be able to open the line direct by the 10th of May; and about that period it may be expected that a change in the receipt and dispatch of, probably, all the northern mails will take place.—Neicry Examiner. The 10th of May is named for the opening of the Waterford and Limerick Railway from Tipperary to Clonmel, and rapid strides are making between Clonmel aed Carrick in the progress of the works, and no . doubt , need now be entertained of it s comp l et i on to D un kitt b) the end of this year. [ADVERTISEMENT.] — Holloway's Pills for the Cure of Nervous Debility and Determination of Blood to the Head. —Extract of a letter from Mr. John Lloyd, of Erwn-wen Harlech, Merionethshire, To Professor Holloway. Sir,—l think it my duty to inform you that for a long period 1 was afflicted with giddiness and swimming in the head, attended by loss of appotite, and generally impaired health. Every means had failed to give me relief, and at length it became so alarm ing, that I was afraid of going out without an attendant. Mr. Hughes, chemist, of Harlecla, advised me to try your Pi lls, which immediately did, and am happy to say they effected a perfect cure, and restered me to health and strength.—Sold by all Druggists and at Professor Holloway's Establishm ent. 244, Strand, London. FLOW- , ERS AND THE FAIR Sex. -- FiOWEITA are prettily said to be " terrestrial stars, that bring down lleave, to earth and carry up our thoughts from earth to down Woman, lovely woman, has been still more prettily define Hav as "something between a flower and an angel." ing both these " gifts" to gladden us , what happymein' tellowS we men ought to be!-Kidcl'a 04774./oyr/la. v R. receive,There i in the o in fi e r a s s t ii THE _MILITIA FILL, t l r . t , fl 'h e i e e , h as i in t i i : tt i e i r s s na o l f a e n o d ufi p d r c o m p u et; i t ig ti... sli e . 4 ci .r ., „::, F irne r ss om the Times-) /e -': e4Y ..*:. ~... p th r t o l v e: to istiz in G ,d o . v b e u rn tit me i ;t. eom T m he b y tity me fe y it o t n ba e t a i a f in w iu e a m tio ri - s I,l ' . ~- - f 1 ';? . 7, -1 :, . 4 1 / 4 .7. k- 9,4 , \--, ~ -..... give up our prejudicein their liteearit - eateeeelyebee—for: --- 'aee l l . '- - reasons that will shako our confidence in their authors. , •-• .., ae. Jteasures of national defence, it is evident, come under IteraVdS at'ef this categOry: - There is no such very wide difference between the militia of Lord Jolla-Ewell, that suggested . by Lord Palmerston'si amendment, and that of the pre- - tent Ministry. Bat as the Conservatives, with a re markable agreement of opinion on an exceedingly ab stract and shadowy point, rejected Lord John's measure, the Whip are quite as strongly aud quite as mysteri ously moved to throw cut Mr. Walpole's, The exact character of the present opposition is betrayed by the circumstance that when Mr. Rich, or any other Whig Member, gets up to criticise the Bill now in the House he inveriebly goes off into a general disparagement of militias of all shapes and kinds. A militia is neces sarily a half and half measure; it is necessarily an at tempt to combine the conflicting conditions of peace and war, of security and danger, of civil and military life.. As such it must needs be ambiguous and queee tionable in the strictest sense of those terms. It is in measures of this mixed and intermediate character that the authority of Governments and the intervention of statesmen aro most severely taxed, and so liable are they in their nature to the most plausible objectioes, that the mere fact of their being pulled to piotes, and even covered with ridicule in the arena of the liegish'' tare, need not startle those who ere prepared to Ell yport them. It would appe . ar to bo an impossibility for ql" . tions of this sor; to be decided upon their own mea`t!. The state of parties and the general aspect of the pole , tical world must be taken into consideration. Knowing. es we do, that it is scarcely possible for the Bill now in the House to pass in anything like its original form, and seeing greater evils just now in its discussion than in its postponement, we are prepared to rely for the present : on our existing defences, with perhaps some additional regular soldiers, and to put off for anuther year prepare tions that, at beet, are prospective. We are prepared to do so, because there is really no other alternative. Not the least evil of the present discussion is the ir retrievable damage it is certain to inflict on the fair fame of British parties and statesmen. The moment the national defences are in the hands of a new and un popular Government, it is discovered for the first time by the supporters of the late Government that it would take at least a month for an invading army to march from the coast to the metropolis, that by the time they had reached the suburbs, if they ever got so far, we could muster a regular and well disciplined force of 200,000 wmeenb,a vhave with least ob attaibedthis a hundred vaetarm fl field b ld gums, enlistment, eII that and b though y i a m p pals possible b t l o e selfish fih and procures l e mercenary l f m t o b t a i motives, e n s i u , mb t e a r . o u e l f d r b e e . spectable men for a few weekslvofa wi thout nenuar annua l training, t t r h a a i nntinkh thankful e g u , l and ballot. Very case e y well, of. invasion, s f e o r r ip ou ti r de oba f n en d ce reliefthe fi portion bd l these e o g f ionsof discoveries. It start is no 'int); defenders st up Bil e l' o l t i of the holes and cor ners o f the land, frene dockyards tied decks, from police and prev ent i ve sta tions, from amidst us and around us, on all sides. Ro derick Dhu no soener whistles than every rock, every bush, reveals an armed friend. But why is this disco vered so late? Nay, how does it come to pass that while supporters and even members of the late Government aro assuring us that we have nothing whatever to fear, and that we are in fact a great military power, wanting only a little more organization, the chief of that Government still recommends his own measure, and endeavours to persuade us that it was a much stronger and mare real measure than that before the House? Our readers will nut be surprised to hear that this extraordinary scene has had the very natural effect of raising Lord Palmer ston once more into the position of arbiter of parties, the censurer of faction, and the scourge of his old col leagues. How far the new honours of candour and im partiality sit gracefully on the brow of the veteran di plomatist, it is hardly for us to say; but there can be no doubt that a great opportunity has been presented to him, and cs little doubt that he bas availed himself of it to the best possible effect. Lord Palmerston has, at all events, retorted on Lord John Russell the charge of gra- tuitous and malignant opposition. The most important result of this di3cussion so far has been the revelation of oar hidden strength, as con fessed by the supporters of the first Militia Bill of this session. Mr. Rich, we can't help fearing, has greatly exaggerated our present available means of defence, but even the most moderate estimate is rather roassurieg. especially when we are told by the hero of actual invasion, that it would take even a small FreL\Ch de tachment ten days to land, with everythin g in its Ovour, and twenty days more to reach tow n . The folio oing estimate of our present available force, made by a vi`rY competent and careful authority, may be applied , 4 0 check Mr. Rich's too flattering picture of our nations" ••• ••• strength:— Force of all ranks, inf an t ry ... 61,000 Pensioners ... 16,000 and volunteers Yeomanry 14,000 Artillery ... 7,000 Marines ashore • • ••• 3,000 Coast Guard for land batteries ... 5,000 Dockyard battalions ... 5,000 Add to the regular troops and infantry . . 10,000 Irish constabulary ... .„ 10,000 Metropolitan Police „. 7,000 Total 140,000 The addition of 10,000 men to the infantry is thus obtained. There are 58 regiments of 850 men, and 9 regiments of 900 rank and file. These 67 regin:ents might be augmented to 1,000 men without one additiOnal officer, and the result would be as follows .- 58 regiments, 150 each 9 „ 100 ~ ... 8,700 ... 900 Additional rank and file 9,600 Hence there are 123,000 men, beyond dispute, mostly good and trained soldiers. The 17,000 additional men, consisting of police, are certainly available in case of emergency, which is all to be provided against at present. Under these circumstances, the public need not take it very much to heart, if they find the House of Commo.us in too di vided and agitated a state to pass a Militia Bill this ses sion. Should it be suspended, a good commission of military men and civilians ought to bo appoint:A to exa mine into and report upon the present state of Ole militia law, upon the actual force in the country , an d upon the best and most economical means of national defence from foreign aggression. At all events, foreign countritA 6 v% ill learn that we are not in so destitutela state as to icivite invasion; that, having respectable means of defence, we can spare time to consider the best plans for future pi 'O - if any are called for; and that even now, unprc , - vided as wo aro alleged to be, we could, without much delay, rut the Duke of Wellington at the head of a Bri tish force larger than he won his greatest victories with —larger, indeed, than any he ever commanded. MARKETS. 23. ITGE.—The improvement which has mani STOCK EXCHA share market for the last few days was of 'Change this morning. The well supported on th as follow :—Great Western, 113—Vale of transactions were York and North Midland, 2u. Heath, 3',4 dis- - fest: itself in th L e vE WABYRISSTVAPRmE: . op ß e P thn OOL, APRIL 23. v, rt alecie.—The share market opened this sroch: —.- rather better than yesterday, but towards the morninglof the day symptoms of a decline and inactivity displayed themselves. The purchase, h owever, b y one or two leading brokers of stocks at full rates restored confidence, and the market closes at its best with a fair amount of busi ness- The transactions werelas follow :—Ambergate, Not am and East Junction, Idis.--Caledonian,n, gip?,,—D t it ilto to o , s lir n eenock, guaranteed,er cent., 17%—i:est ern and Ifoly head, Preference, guarant ee d 51/ p Counties, 9 7-V i — Edinburgh and Glasgow, 33—L an cashre and Yorkshire, 74—Ditto, Fifths, 6 dis.—Liverpool, Crosby, and Southport, 21 14—London and North-Western, 1241, c. —Ditto, New Quarters, 5% p.-31anchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, Preference, 13;i Midland, 69 —South- Eastern and Dover, 221i—York and North Midland, 25 , a —South Staffordshire, 114 dis.—Dutch Rhenish, 31. i dis. MANCHESTER, APRIL 23. STOCK EXClikNOE.—The busine s s to-day was very limited.__ but prices had an upward tendency. The transactious.r3rw as follow :—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 54 _4 an, Kendal and Windermere, 12—Midland, 68.i. — Cal eau " Quarters, ties, 9 7-16—London and North-Western, 1 ; - ,_e_vf .. , (No. 1) , 20 M—South-Eastern and Dover, 22 15-16—Eastern Coun ties, p.—Lancashire and Yorkshire, 73 N —Blaf : 'n' i u n '" 9 ` 4 N di / . 6 V.—Sheflield, Preference, Catedonial East Anglians, 4 !,, dis,—Ditto, f; per cent., 13 3.l6—West s g ,_ Preference, 8 ! , a . STOCK EXCRANG E. —There was an a i nd p a good bu.4neuis hibited in the share market to-d T y, BIRIAINGHAAL he sales reported were — has been done at improved pri9 3 : 9 ,- 13 , Midland Stock, 66 London and North-Western,e: ~ e , 7 6 .._ }e Shrewsbury and roved feeling es- STOCK Union. 3 dis. Birminghamt(B), 5 '4l—Shropso ) Ariu .ni e 2 1.0 3. v Ditto (Birmingham and D :7 ____----- _ EIGHT PERSONS DROWNED. —On Tuesday evening, as nine persons were coming ashore from a vessel, the Jane. lying at Benllach, near the Red Wharf, the boat being small and overloaded capsized, and all were thrown into the water. The weather at the time was calm, the v,-ator smooth, and about seven feet deep. They were about a hundred yards from shore, and their cries for assistance were most ived rr heart rending; but only a fe w wom e n w ere to be found o a n the spot, and those in a state of distraction. When moo it was too late to render any assistance to the tudortunatet sufferers, except one boy, Evan Jones, nine years old, vi,'°T they found on a piece of timber floating, and succee(.lo,,,T: saving, who is doing well. Six bodies were found that n '•,"" and the other two next morning.—North Wales Chroniel,:_. FATAL ACCIDENT AT TUE CAMDEN- TO WN Ss Chapin,T!,T —Yesterday, as a goods train belonging to Dlesswri; and Home, carriers, was entering the Camden -to it rec ' t : i t v i°P* the last truck came in contact with a stone, w hen was riding on a sudden jerk, which threw off Frederick aged thirteen, the conductor's brother, ;ow w as raised up the truck with the latter. The poe , ri , on y o yed within the quite insensible and speechless. and n;ighbouring surolfon, station, where he was attended b 3. gentleman's arrival ' , his but he was quite dead before th at neckls:,x.-0n Wednesday bot h a e ni n denberg er, out on the premises of Drs. establishentof arrivalth oosfe the e nt e l n e g m in e t ns s liacelhiruerst, which at one time threatened to Newington, At ' i s. FI R E A T TicE broken i In broke by t S e U f all. 8 E destroy n clv, from the exertions of the people in but which, fortnna: . d and the speedy g no b o e n e , n and'funbrid e-w lls from Ilawkhurst The g e .., was confined to the directingb rhoo urni bearing gthhb t ev' e gentlemen, centre o f the building. hh e :u x c er ? t t i ' o t of the villagers, their perilous situation, and sustained no injury whatever ; they were accommodated without delay in 4 other premise connected with the institution. The magistrates, neigh rendered v h g o r s e e a t en s most praiseworthy. The i ces sustained is calcu'ated to amount to 10,000/., but fortunately the whole was insu:ed. NEW RAIL ' 1 ‘ AY Illus.—During the present aes-. :Tr; a l • c e w t e% sion 72 railway Bills have been read the second time in the House of Commons, and referred to Select Committees► s.ta 17 railway Bill s h ave b ean rea d the third time and Pas;"'. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 24, 1852.