The Sun. — London, England, 1812-07-22 00:00:00

thesdbjeet.- It had aiv.a.ys b - een Ihe . practice in rela And for the tcorney,Generat to order a notice of this kind to be given, before he filed theinfor :nation ; he did not krinw that , the notice was al ways-precisely in the same form of WOrds; but it was in substance always the same as . -that which his Right Honourable Friend 7 comPlained of.' This notice was not given with a view...to intrndude Star Chamber practice, as had beewinsinuated,br for the pnrpose of entrapping the defendant,. and veigling him to say something that. might tend to convict himself, but, with the view-of - giving the defendant an opportunity of stating any thing which might induce the Attorney—General not to institute the prosecution. In this country the de fendant would have no such information, because the inforniation wouldbe filed in the first instance. His Right HonOurablOriend had stated,. that Mr. - Fitzpatrick did go to th 9 house of the' Attor ney-General, in consequence of this notice ; he supposed he had collected his inforMatiOn from. the letters signed "A Barrister," in 'the Irish Ppers, in which letters it was stated, that Mr. Fitzpatrick 'having, at the Attorney-General's house, declared that he had nothing to say, was not interrogated by the Attorney-Gneral - This fir: -s a pretty decisive proof that the intention of the Attomney : General was not, as it had been insi nuated, to ensnare the defendant, and to • induce him say something that might be prejndicial to himself., This notice, then, was meant to he, and in fact was, a favour to the subject, and he did not think the people of 'lreland. would .thank his Right Honourable Friend, if through his in terference it was discontinued. The defendant knew very well that no.pena?..y would attach upon him if he did not attend the summons : he knew that it was entirely optional with him-to attend or not.. It had been stated in- other places, that the Irish Government, in instituting this prosecution, were proceeding against the Catholic body, be cause these books contained nothing , but a state - meta. of the penal laws affecting the Catholics : against ON asset tion be. desired to enter his pro test in the strongest and most distinct manner.— This prosecution bad no more to do with the Ca tholics, or with their -claims; than with any sub ject the most remote. Neither the Government, nor the Attorney-Generalof Ireland, had or would interfere with the Roman-Catholics for supporting their claims irs any nehrter they thought proper, .provided they did it in a legal and constitutional manner. But surely it could not be contended, that because the Roman Catholics,of Ireland were preferring certain claims, the laws of Ireland 'Nvere to remain in estateof abeyance ; that libels, con taining the most foul and unfounded assertions, were to be circulated and taken under, the patron age of large bodies of men ; .that the most serious charges were to he promalgated against the very ,fountain head of justice ; that the, Judges and the _Government were to he- accused _of crimes little short of muider. Whether the case in question 'came within his description it was not for him to Say ; that was a question to,be determined in a Court of Law ; but as an abstract proposition, it could not be contended that libels .of the kind that he had stated, should be circulated with impu nity. His Right Honourable Friend, he was sure, could not have read the book - to which be had alluded, through, for be had described the. ' . passage which the Attorney-General had felt him self bound to prosecute, merely as a misrepre sentation of something that had passed at a trial ; now he would' read the passage, .and leave it to the House to . determine whether his Right. llon. Friend had described it correctly, or whether time Attorney-General could, consistently with his duty, have passed over it without legal notice. " At the Summer Assizes of Kilkenny, 1810, one Barry ,was cimVicted of a capital offence, for which he was afterwards executed. This man's case , was truly tragical. He was wholly innocent ; was a respectable Catholic, formerly in the county of Waterford, in good circumstances.. His in nocence was clearly established in the,interval be tween his conviction and execution ; yet. he was • hanged publicly, avowing his innocence. There are some shocking ciremnstminCes attending this case, which the - Duke of Richmond's administra— _ tion may yet lie invited to explain to Parlia ment:" He would now ask the Honse whether it was possible that the, Attorney General could, without being guilty_ of a 'dereTion of. his duty, have avoide4 taking 'notice of this charge. It; was the duty of 'Government to administer justice with impartiality to every sUbject of the - . realm, and justicelvould not beadministered.with impartiality if one man was punished for i an of 7fence, while another committed a similar act with impunity. What would Mr. Walter Cox, who was last year prosecuted and convicted fora libel, and. was now suffering imprisonment in Negate in Dublin, what would he ,say, if another man, . equally guilty with himself, was suffered to escape with impunity ? The principle upon which the Duke of Richmond's Administration had always. acted, and he defied any man to produce a case to the contrary, was to administer justice equally, and \fallout any distinction, to all classes of his ;Majesty's subjects in the present instance, they _ - had not departed from that principle,' for it was -impossible that any Government could suffer such a - charge to go unnoticed. Having given this ex planation, he felt it necessary to add, that be did not think it necessary that the Paper moved for' should be laid before the House„, But there were 'other reasons why be objected the production of the paper : there were proceedings pending ; the whole case ./ Ivas about to he submitted to a Jury, any intefference therefore on the part of that • House would be improper. His Rt. lion. Friend had, said .that he wanted to knout what the law was upon this subject 3 that information he would soonhaVe from a Court of. Law, for Mr. Fitz-. patrick had brought an action against the At torney General, and laid his damages at 1000 i.. SO that the question of law must soon be decided. - His Right Hon. Friend had also expressed some• apprehensions that ti.*: Attorney General might proceed-against an ignorant man, who might from his ignorance ruin his own cause ; • but his Itight .Hon. Friend nead not entertain any apprehen sions of thatkind,ifc the case of Mr. Fitzpatrick, 'who boasted 7 , of having the advice of a King's Counsel, and wh6 had not taken a single step in this business without advice. With regard to what .his. Right lion. Friend :had said about the Government in England being ignoral,t of t 46 , commencement of this prosecution, it was cdtainly true. Did his Right Honourable Friend suppose that the Irish . Government was so wretchedly pusillanimous, or so inattentiv'e to their duty, that they Would not take notice of such a paragraph •as he'had read without orders from this -country . ? If the charge contained in that paragraph Was true, the Judges ought to be cashiered, and the Lord Lieutenant impeached ; when such. an -ac cusation was preferred, was it to be suppOSed that the Government of Ireland was to wait for orders how to proceed ? He should not trou ble the House any longer, but he thought it right, befgre he sat down, to state that this pro secution had no connection, directly or indi T rectly, with the Roman :Catholics.; the Attor - - ney-genenal made no distinctions _between Ca tholic; or* Vrotestan . ; and - if the :passagii in queSti6n had appeared in any of 'the answers to " the Statement of the Penal Laws," instead of •in that work itself, it would have been equally -Prosecuted. His Right Hon: Friend had adverted slightly to the manner in which this book was :written ; he (Mr. Pole) would not now enter in to that part of the subject. }, He had upon a for tiler occasion made some observations upon it,' and had shewn, that, upon the subject of charitable donations, the hook . did ,contain much misrepresentation, but he would not now recur to that discussion, - . because, as he had be fore said, the claims of the Catholics were wholly unconnected with the question before the House. His Right Hon: Friend who came into the HouSe just when he" (Mr. Pole) hail done speaking on .the occasion to Which he wa) alluding, made some pretty sharp, observations upon a speech which he had not heard. lie would not troublp theflonse any farther, except to state that he should give his negative to the motion: -Mr. HUTCHINSON aid Sh P. litr,p)ETT in short . speeches each supported the ;nation ; Mr W. Fitzgerald and Lord - Castiereagh'opposed it ;. Mr. Sheridan replied ; and, after a few words from Mr. -Tighe, Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Barham;and Mr. Sheridan, the House divided : . 23 . . . . 67 . . . . -44 For the Motion Against it. Majority FINANCIAL RESOLUTIONS. On the motion of the - CHANCELLOR of the Ex- CHEQUER, the adjourned debate on . the Finan cial.Resolutioni was postponed until to-morrow. OVERTURE FROM FRANCE. Mr. SHERIDAN did not think it would be ne cessary to preface with many - observations the proposition which in 'consonaace to his notice 'he was about to make, as lie understood that it Would be acceded to by the Gentlemen opposite. 'But, undoubtedly, considerable interest bud been excited in his mind by the intimation which the House had last night ,received, that .hiS Hon. Friend on his right hand,. (Mr:' Whitbread), had hurried to town fort•the express purpose of de claring, thatle conceived Ministers' to be entire ly wrong-, and that the late overture from the French Government was the last Opportunity that could possibly have beers afforded for' enter ing into a negoeiation for peace. That the mo tives of his lylon 'Friend were excellent no one , could doubt ; but be eonfesied that he waited with considerable curiosity to hear how his Hon. Friend would attempt to establish his ptoposition.. In the mean time he certainly felt great timidity. He experienced the sensation of a partridge or a pheasant, with a hawk hovering over him, for Tie very well - knew his Honourable Friend's power. But undoubtedly he must hear some very strong arguments to the contrary, before he could be convinced that the letter of the -French Minister did not deserve the character which he had given to it on a recent occasion ; that it did riot deserve to be called perfidious, insidious, and insulting.--:- Perfidious, because it called upon us to be guilty of the grossest perfidy to our ; insidious, bi!co.use it was evidently' written with the convic tion, that the proposal which it contained could not be accepted ; for he exonerated the policy of the Emperbr or Ruler of France (he cared not 'which he was called, and considered any dispute on that point as a matter of silly etiquette) from the weakness which would attach to it, if it could be supposed for a moment that the ',French Government thought or meant that their -overture should really be acceded to by the Bri-_ tish: Insulting, because it - affected, on certain flimsy pretences, to induce the British Govern ment to depart from the most sacred and, honour able engagements. To the reply of our Govern ment sthe Ruler of France returned no answer. He never cared for any answer to his original pro-' position. The fact was, that when that proposi-' tion was made, he was in the heat of a7' negociation with the Russian GoVernmant i and feeling that the negociation was•not going on so successfully as he could wish, he sent to Great Britain the overture which we had received, 'hoping that an impression favourabh: to his views might be made on the Russian Cabinet, When they should find that he was willing not to push the boundary of . his dominions beyond. the Pyrennees, to guaran tee the independence al Si- 'ly, &c. but certainly not entertainipg the instr,,:ina• expectation that this stratagem could deceive the British Govern nient.- The French proposition was dated April 17 ;' it was promptly replied to by the Noble Lord on the 23d. -By some mistake, however, the flag of truce in which our answer was conveyed, was fired at from Calais, and was obliged to proceed to Morlaix; This very much delayed the arrival' of the British dispatch, and before it reached Paris the dispatches of the French Government went off to Russia. But it was impossible that any one / could be surprised that no answer was made to the Noble Lord's communication. He was persuaded that Napoleon would laugh at those who thought he seriously meant to carry on a negociation for peace with Great Britain. If we could penetrate into his thoughts; w 4 should find the course of them running thus :—" I will 'send to the Russian Cabinet to terrify them with the prospect of my 'concerting a peace with England entirely disadvantageous to Russia. I am Compelled to go to war with Russia, and for the purpose of intimidating that power, I will desire the acquiescence of 'Great Britain in, a pretended negociation for peace. I want 150,000 men out of Spain. .1 will tell England that I wish she would release them by withdrawing her troops, in order that I may use them in my designs agains t , Russia. Tte answer of England will be, What is your quarrel with Russia ?'-1 reply, because she inexorably ref•ises to assist me in ,destroying that maritime ,Strength, and those maritime priril ciples on which alone your existence as a - great nation depends. Because Russia will 'not - join with hie m destroying the sinews of:yoUr power, I make war upon liessia; I ask you, Eughmd, to lend me your assistance ; and when I have achiev -ed my-object, I Will come hack to Spain, and shall -be very much obliged to-you." For his•,.part,ltie could see no proper answer:to a proposition which veiled such hitentions,as these, but precisely that which the Noble Lord had given. To the propo sition that the present dynasty in Spain should be declared independent, no other -answer could.,be returned than that to accede to,. it would be in consistent with the obligations of goird, faith on the part of Great Britain towardS her allies. .`,lt was whirusicvl to hear the. French Minister, hi his note of the lath April to Count ROmanzow; the Russian Chancellor, tell him that 'the Emperor, " constrairiedto - abandon every hope from Russia, before he commenced the contest in which so much blood must be shed, felt it-to be his thity - to - address himself to the English, Government ; and that the diStress felt by England,_ the agitations which preyed on her, and the changes which had taken place in her Government, had induced his Majesty to take this course." Any one who could really suppose that the French Emperor saw the state,of our trade, and our agitation, as he term ed it,- with any thing like affection, or a wish"to relieve uS-, must be more than ordinarily credu ' lons. He gave credit to him (the Emperor of the French) for not expecting that such credulity would be shown by the British. Government. ever there was a time at which Great Britain might and ought to make a grand struggle,. it.was the present, when the enemy affected godd - -will to- Wards the country, and pity for its agitated state. Nothing but the Bill which had-recently passed , through the 'House could countenance the sup position that there was any thing- like --dis: r loyalty or -disaffection in the country ; but notwithstanding that Bill, and nothwithstand ring the commercial and manufacturing distresses I .Which really existed, he firmly believed that if the point at issue were the degradation ofGreat Bri tain by submission to France, there . was not an Englishman Who Would not perish rather than Consent to it. He was, most happy,to hear his Henourable - Friend express him Self lately in ; such strong terms` against the -conclusion of -a-disho nourable peace. He was sure that his Honour able-Friend would act up to his professions. But ' did he recollect that to commence a-dishonour able_negociation vas 'little less reprehensible than to conclude a dishonourable peace ? Was it pos.:- sible that hiS Honourable Friend 'Could be - blind to the sole objact of Napoleon ? Did his Ho nourable ' Friend think that the - affairs of the Peninsula, or o Sweden, - or any other coMpara tively minor consideration, prompted his policy and governed his actions ? Was it not manifest that itslong grudge was seated in his heart ; for the gratification of which he. alone ,lived; and that the real . object of ihis ambition was to des• s troy the maritime superiority of Eng,larid ? Did he even-Conceal this object ? By no means. He had repeatedly avowed it; he had made it the basis of his treaties with other countries. In his proposition to us, was there any expression of a contrary resolution on his part, to abate his hostility to those just_ rights which we Inherited from our brave anceStOrs, and which it was to be hoped we should leave unimpaired •to out poste rity ? They were rights which the enemy could not wrest from us by Near. He (Mr. S.) trusted .that we should not be wheedled out of them by negociation. The acquisition of them, however,. was Napoleon'S sole object. With regard to those undeniable rights, he should like to ask it any other nation in Eutope,had it possessed themi. would have used them -with equal moderation :, Would the great Emperor himself, had ,be the power at sea which England possessed, use it with equal" moderation ? It was a libel false-as hell to say that Great Britain ever foully • availed 'herself•Of her maritime,supefiority. '" If there be those," continued- Mr. S. who 'think that any portion of these rights' might be advan tageously, surrendered, I tell them that I for one, (and-I am sure that lam only echoing the senti ments• of, the House, would rather scuttle this Island of England, and alto* it' •to ,be over whelmed by the surrounding ocean - ,than would surrender one iota-of that charter which has " ap pended to it - the seal of nature herself; and which —I speak it with reverence—enjoys the guarantee of Providence, manifested, in the high glory and - prosperity of this renowned nation."—To this point alone, however, were all Napoleon's efforts directed. He was ,at war with Russia-for no other cause than that - she Would not cordially join with him . in attempting the destruction of the 'British Empire. Under theie circumstances he felt himself imperiously called upon to applaud the conduct of the British Government, in ire fusing to enter into the disc:.ssion of propositions which were ,evidently Made. with no otlwr view than to have an--effect on, the politics- of die Ca binet of St. Petersburgh. into, the details of those propositions he 'would not enter. It would:b. time enough for him to do that after he should have heard the observations, of _Honourable Friend, acid after. the , documents should be laid on the table. At- present he : would content him self with repeating , his „conviction, - that of all the hasidiOus propositionS ever made by one country to another, the late overture from the enemy was the most so ; and that - the worst con sequences must have ensued, had / any disposition been evinced on the part of. the' British Go vernment to entertain' an offer so hollow and in sincere. - lie concluded by moving— " That an humble Address be presented to his Royal High-, ness the Prince Regent, praying, that he would be graciously, pleased to order the proper Officers to lay before the House Copies of all correspondence or communications between the Duke of Bassano and the Right Hon. Lord Viscount-Castle reagh, in the mouth of April last." Mr. WHITBBgAD rose to second the notion of his Right Hon_ Friend. .fte observed, that from the speech of his Right Hon. Friend, those who bad not been in the House must have supposed that he (Mr. W.) had preceded him, and had been' contending, as the basis of s negotiatiOn, for an • unconditional surrender• of the maritime rights of Great Britain, for the purpose of laying prostrate : not only the Bitish -flag,but himself and his coun try at the feet of France. But those who were • present would see that' it was the work of imagi nation merely. He had uever intimated such -a ~. disposition to his Right Hon. Friend, nor had any conversation which could lead ,hine to form such a.conclusion. His Opinion was founded upon some report of what he had stated ; for which he ~ (Hr:W.) was not answerable; and the scope of which his Right, Hon! Friend had 'entirely Mis taken. At the shine time he must say, that if thia country was prepared:to go the length of the opi- ' nions which his 'Right' Hon. Friend had just pro -1 amiigated, they _must be prepared for eternal and I everlasting war. ' With the Ruler of France'it Wits . inipteeOble to make peace, or to treat foe.l.Leare, I it such 'doctrines were to be proceeded upon. /Hi; • sole object Was to overthrow this country, aiat . I was iiot that the object Of this country as applied` to•EranCe ? It had been so for the last centurvZ: -, Long befare the' name 01 the present. Ruler (')f , France was known, the- overweening ambitioa Of..igngland was to destroy France. In her turni; - France directed her enmity tow'ards the overthrow,' ' of. the maritime polder of England. The object was conmion and reciprocal. • With respect to the line of argument taken by, his Right Hon. Friend upon the letter of the Duke of Bassano, he found ' no sentence derogatory to this countryhe found • no proposition aiming at the destruction of our „/ maritime rights—yet those rights were the cause for complaint all over the globe - . -He would put it to any Civilian, whether the fact was not , so , whether England was 'not abused for - the eau- " wise of theie rights ? Wit § the atrocious act con' mitted against Spain (the seizure of the - frigates) so soon forgOtten ? Was the Copenhagen business obliterated from therannals of . our history ,? And was it 'necessary to call fOrth the powerful -elo quence of his Right Honourable Friend, to. array}' in brilliant colours those black deeds ?. Was it a proper period e . .when. the armies of France had • advanced to-the frontiers of Russia.(There tra , a negotiation atiooing on . , said Mr. Sheridan)—Cer tainly there was a negotiation going on, but ne vertheless Franee Woula not evacuate the'Russian territories, and on that account the conflict be-- gan, . just as. Russia had concluded the foolish war' - whiCh she carried On against Turkey. - The 110 9 -. Gentleman then noticed" the opportunities which -in his opinion had been aelforded for entering into a negotiation, which hail; been lost—the variou'' flags,pf truce . sent over by France, • and the ail - ' savers to the se propositions. He :knew that on one occasion our flag had been fired at, but that: circumstance was - , purely accidental, and -aft - ample apidogy was afterwards made. Some - of those, propositions were, as' he understood , sincere. With respect to the last propositions he thought the -Noble Lord had acted iMpru" - dently in retiirning the answer which , he did ; ani e were it not % for that sentence in the letter ea the Thike of Bassano, in which he talked about , , the dynasty of Spain, the negociation would. have been entered into. The Honourable Gentle - mar' then, at soine length, contended for the necessitY of negotiation, and that this was , as -fav,ourable .. an Opportunity as could' be afforded. He !was not -disposed tocommute either the dignity or honour of the country; but :he thought Ouvernan4 4 .! . should have stated the terms upon whigh they would be inclined to negocifite, making the eal" ;,i isting authorities in Spain parties to the nego 4 ' t elation. He condemned persevering in the Fin' . ..ciple of eternal war. That principle was repro bated in 180, and those friends with whom his' Right Hon. Friend then acted, considered peace of such vital importance, that they proceeded to open a negociation. In so doing they met the approbation of his, Right Hon. Friend.- Ad verting to the embassy to Russia, he observed , ' . ' that before , the arrival of Lord Cathcart,' St . Petersbnrgh might be in possession of-the French , anti then his mission would be useless. With re spect to the war with America, he thought the _war would be more fatal to Great Britain than to . - America. He - wished to hear from our financiers/ ,and especially from the Right Hon. Gentlernal l ' (Mr. Vansittart), where the supplies were t o be obtained for currying on- the war ? , Lord CASTLEREAGH did not mean to oppose the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. A g reat part of the observations which he otherwise should' have troubled - the House with, were rendered un necessary by the speech of the Right Son. Gen' delimit. With respect to the observations of th'P Hon. Gentlemen ,(Mr. Whitbread), on the answe r -given to the proposition from France, and which the lion. Gentleman had characterized as an ab solute rejection of all 'overtures for peace, he would 'pet • it- to the judgment of the ttouse, whether . such Vas in 'their opinion the result of the al' sever ? Whether his Majesty's Government was not- bound to give the answer which they had ~ given ? Whether they would not have, forfeited the good 'opinion ; and deseeted the contempt of the allies of England, if they had neglected tcl . proceed upon negociation under an idea of the ne - ' cessity of keeping strict faith with her allies ? But in contending s for-the propriety, under. existing circumstanoes, of sendingsuch an answer, he shonio not, he hoped,, be considered as' wishing to con tend for the principle of eternal war ; the House , he was certain; did not understand the Right 1-I°n• Gentleman (Mr. Sheridan) as supporting any suc h principle. He was prepared to admit to the-Right Hon, Gentleman, that the views a France, as d i , . rected to this country,• were those of a great rivu` , • i power ; such must he the character of the el reacl Government, in the present day, even though a Bourbon should be on the Throne. Though he No t s uotdisposed to contend for interminable war , Y e if'his Majesty's Government were to adopt the feelings which seemed to pervade the mind of the Iton. Gentleman for the last twenty years'--feel." ine- P s which induced hini to place confidence in th e i propositions and sincerity of the French Govern ment-a-he surely could not be expected to e mbrace this moment as the best for success in the result of any negociation for peace. The Hon. Gent. did, not expect that his opinions, as to the suppose ( ' sincerity of the French Government, were to 11 taken as _arguments and reas ;nett upon. It woulo ' be recollected that the French Ruler was in the practice of sending overaropositions similar in ef fect to the one under discussion whenever ke • was about to place himself at the head of his arina' t , for the purpose of extending his conquests. 130 the Hog e Gentleman wh i was so friendly to ocg°-