The Sun. — London, England, 1812-02-28 00:00:00

their. rwn immediate friend:. iks to the principles by V' keeli" he was aeluated, t hey were the same no* as before. He was formerly for the measure, but agarnst ti•e circumstance and the times. He was so still. It would be desirable to know what the principles of the Hon. Gentleman on the other side were after all their studied equivocation. Did Lord Grenville mean to stand by his letter to Lord Fmg.•ll ? Was it right that he should leave his opi nion in d i oubt at this time ? It would appear as if he bad anandoned the safeguards which he proposed originally ; for neither in his speeches, nor in the fowl to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent was tierce a word ebout them. The inference was, that they could force this measure without any safeguards or qualifications, whether the people of this country were. favourable to ii: or not. It was curious to see how those safeguards were abandoned, for he was - ju , tified in presuming that they were. The re act' stated was, the increased danger of the coun try. He could not perceive "wherein that in crease existed, Our late victories could, hardly be supposed — to have increased our danger.— In Ireland some proceedings had taken place which were in themselves illegal, but - lie never looked upon them with that alarm which some had done, and he believed there Would be still less ground of apprehension if Hon. Gentlemen had stood upon their own prieciples, like Siattsmen, instead of be tray ing them to popular clamour. Had such a course been pursued, the prospects of the Catholic would be much brighter than they were. But whatever difficulties might exist with respeEt to Ireland, or the Empire, they would not be diminished by the appoint nent of those Gentlemen to office, who would attempt to force that question on the country. He practically agreed with his- Right Hon. Friend, and circurnstarn es might bring about a practical dif ference. He had stated enough in what he had al ready said, though not to satisfy those on the oilier side, yct'to satisfy his own mind, and the House at large, as to the propriety of that conduct, which he had felt himself bound to adopt. With respect to the campaigns, ‘if the Honourable Baronet thought it advisable to go into a Committee on that subject, he ought to have done so two years earlier. Was it nothing, he would ask, to the mi litary interest of this country, that in those cam paigns Portugal was wrested from the enemy? He would conttml that the first had procured the safety of the south of Spain and the port of Cadiz. He would moreover assert, that to the compaign in Est:•emadura, we owed that other great hold in Gallicia. But for thee, Portugal had not b en ours. The port of Cadi,z had been 'in the hands of tie enemy, and the fleet of Ferrol seized upon. The allusion to Waleheren had more of parliamen tary trick in it !kiln of justice, and the Hon. Gentle nem loins. If (Mr. W.) had been candid enough to allow on a foriner occasioh, that he had afforded every means of inquiry. When the Hon. Gentle men said he. %as incompetent, he should have re collected his admission, that he had no fault to find With the execution. 'He thought his present decla ration ia.her inconsistent: As to the principles on which he should act, they were those which Mr. Pitt had sanctioned with his immoital name, and he should think h - onself apolitical coward it he was efraid to place his humble services,at the disposal of the Prince Regent. It was for ,him (the Prince lie,sen . ) to command, and under that command be world fight the battles of the Constitution with at .croy. Ac,“. the ' , wow, - J's prink:iplc seemed to be a orinciple, wheaevel he saw vii occa sion, to be for the Catholics, and whenever be saw a fit occasion, to be against them. They were just the saute on goi , g in as they were on coming out. ; There was a distill& understanding that something - s) , as stipulated in favour of the Catholics, bat the - Noble Lord had now dope that hope away, and all he should say on it was, that there had been in the highest quarter a most extraordinary misunderstand ing. The question was, whether the Awry would have any Administration, for at present it had none. Tie defended Lords Grey and Grenville, and main tained, that if the Catholics saw the Administration ' Inclined to accede to their claims, they would bo ready . to give every security that could be required. With resped to the Spanish qnestion, therecould be but one honest wish in the couutry,namely,to make every ex ertion against I hecoMmon enemy. But it was indispt u sable to ascertain a correspondent disposition on the -part of the Spanish Government, and to be assured of our own means of supporting them. Ot Lord ' Wellington he entertained the highest opinion a braver Officer, one more beloved by his troops, or zealously attached to the interests of his country, coned not exist. By why had Lord Wellesley re signed ? He presumed that he (Lord W.) had as enthusiastic a feeling for the cause of Spain, and that he - was as Statesman-Eke a 114inister as the Noble Lord opposite. What . was the cause of his quitting office ? Was it 'the Catholic Question ? Was it the state of our Finances I—Was it a diffe rence of opinion with respect to the assistance to be rifforded to Spain ?-=The lamentable state of the Government at the present moment, when all was 10. , 5e conjecture, tendered the proposition fur Committee on the State of the Nation sun wore expedient. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained, and adverted to the fiucluation of conduit in the last AdmioistratiOn on the Catholic Question. Lord Telma contended, that, Lords Grey and Grenville never had given up the Catholic as a Go v erument Question. Of Lord Grenville, it was not permitted him to speak, but of Lord Grey, he would say that there was no individual, however great in talent, however aspiring in charader, who would not gain more public credit by tollowing such a man into retirement and obscurity, than by accompanying any other Statesman to the highest situations of profit and power. With respe& to the offer recently made to Lords Grey at:d Grenville, he spoke of it as proceeding from a responsible ad- viscr of the Regent, and as such he must say that it was meant to be refused at the time it was made. Lord CASTLEREAGH and Lord TEMPLE mutually explained. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER said, that the 800. Baronet opposite, who had made the mo tion, had endeavoured to amuse the House with the idea that it related to the numerous objets preheoded by - him in his speech, when in fad it atoonnted only to the question, whether or not, on- LONDON : Printed by 1 H( At the SUN OFWICi der the existing crcumstances, it was the duty of Par liament to address the Prince_ Regent to look _for other Coensellois ? It wits an inquiry not into the State of the_Nation, but into the State of Parties.— His Noble Friend had been accused of having, great conveniency of pi inciple.. That charge applied much more.jeatly to Gentlemen on other side. His Noble Friend's opinion on the Catholic question was the same as it had been from the ITuion. But those who now excla;med against any change 'of of opinion on that subject, - might recoiled, that only a year before Mr. Pitt's death, they declared they would use every means to bring the Catho lic question - to a successful issue. When, how ever, they came into office, although they ma naged to abolish the Slave Trade (a most important measure, and one in the highest degree honourable to them), they allowed a whole Sessi ! u to pass without a word on the Catholic Question, and in the next Susaion only tried to introduce something on the subject into the Mutiny Bill. It was the first step, but the consequences to which it led were such, that no Wise and reflecting mind could fail to exue rience the greatest uneasiness from their conteMpla- - tion. Finding that some difficulties lay in their way, these unchangeable men stated their readiness to continue in office rather -than press the matter, Mr. Fox was the pattern of the Gentlemen opposite, yet thiough hes lite they waved the consideration of the Catholic Question ; but now they exclaimed that there could be no delay, although something very like insurrection or rebellion was at the bottom of the proceedings en that subject. The opinion of all the Membcrs of Government' was what it had.'re cently been expressed to be. ciencuiroi that at least the present was not the proier time for the concession of the Catholic claims. Shouldthe mo ment arrive when his- Noble Friend might thiuk that the coin,. tsions might with safety be made, he would of course give that advice to his Royal Highness the Regent, who would have to de cide between his Noble Friend's advice and his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer). Without as piring to a knowledge of what might be the future opinion of the Regrut, he was content to serve Ins Royal Highness, while he would accept his_ services.; and when his- Royal Highness should no longer think his advice good, with every feeling of respect ful gratitude for the honours conferred upon him, he was pet fecily piepated to make his bow, and re tire. He should not think himself justified in endea vouring to fix a permanent and indelible impression on the Royal mind. It was his duty to give his Royal master the best advice in his power, during the period *of his service ; but he should have no right to impute to his -Ruyal Highness a dereliction of principle, should he, under a change of citcum staeces, alter his npinion. Nor in the circumstance, that because the Regent, at the comtnencemene of the Regency had expressed himself frankly, and under the influence of the prejudices studiously ex• cited in him against the aipisters of his Father, acid because the observation, that in so short a pe riod their services had been productive of the greatest advantage and glory of the countty, occa sioned the magnanimous expression at the end of. the first year of his Royal Highness's Regency, that he could not withhold the sanction of his approba• tion from them, could tie conceive any thing that re.: fleeted -on his Royal Highness the slightest cause of disapprobation. On the various topics so well haw. died by the Hon. Baronet, he weeJd say tat ping, but content himself with referring the HODOor.ble Baronet - for a reply to 014 past debates, aud. to the debates that were to come;. satisfied as he was that the real object et the motion (although, pet haps, the Hon. Batonet might not himself be aware of was that which he had stated at the commencement of his speech. Mr. LAMB was not disposed to undervalue the re sources of the country, but he could not see that agreeing to the-Hon. Baronet's motion would be a confession of weakness. A Committee on the State of the Nation was particularly called for at an sera like the present, when the atlairs of the State were carried on by an inefficient and divided Mi nistry-They had lost their strength in the Noble Lord who had resigned (Lord Wellesley), and gain ed weakness in the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Cas tlereagh): The present commercial eistress he did not impute to Ministers, but in a great measure to the Ruler of France, but it had been greatly aggra vated by the conduCt of Government. Time notice given by an Hon, Friend of his respeOing the Or ders in Council was no argument against going into a Committee, as no where, in his opinion, could the subject be so properly brought forward. With resped to the question relating to Ireland, if it was really let loose, he was glad of it, as if every man was allowed to vote as he thought right on that sub ject, he telocontident that heehould shortly vote in one of the largest majorities that had ever been seen in that House. - He hoped that Minis-Jere would not, 'for the sake of keeping their places, put any jug • gles on the vountry. if they did not mean to let every man loose - on that question, he hope they Would continue to ad- On their old system, and not, by a juggle, throw the obioquy of rejecting the pe tition' oft the Ministers, on the (louse of Commons. ' He agreed will. the last speaker in the view he took of the Peninsula. Notwithstanding all the errors that might -be charged to Ministers, he could,not look on the war which we had carried on there with any thing like dissatisfaaion at the condud of Great Britain. He thought it had rased the character of the army and of the country ; that it had improved in the best manner the discipline of our troops; and that With such a chance as we had appeared to have of doing good, we could never have been exculpated to posterity it we had not generously and ga ll ant ly - spread the shield of our defence before Spain. He thought the House ought to go into the Committee; bat if it were gone into, it was his intention not to impute that to Ministeis which was the fault of the times. Lord DYSART opposed the motion, and contend ed that to go into the Committee might be produc tive of evils of considerable magnitude. He defended the present system with great ability, and maintained that it was necessary to put faith ad the energ!es of war, In order to bring , the, present contest w a glorious termination, in an honourable and advan tageous peace. Mr. HERBERT defended the policy of continu ing the war in the Peninsula. It he could see any good likely to result from ding into ti:e Cuaunitiee, )111AS WOOD, of No. 35, Maidsn-lane, Covent-garden; aft ;, No, 112, kaand, W 161.111 Advertisements, Orders he would vote for the motion ; but as it Was not clear to him that any thing of the kind could b.: reasonably anticipated, he should vote against it. Mr. M. MONTAGUE wished to know of tie Hon. Gentleman, who had described the present Govern ment as an inefficient and divided Ministry, why his friends had nut accepted of the invitation which had been given them, to come fore and and strengthen them ? There never was a tirnO when unanimity and strength were more to be desired, and never was there a time when men, on slight grounds, could refuse to serve their country with less pro priety, and with less appearance of loyalty to him from whom the invitation had been received. He wished to know why, on such an occasion, they had not come forward, and could not but consider their - failing to do so as something like a dereliaion from duty.? He wished to know if Gentlemen opposite were less divided among themselves than , the Administration was said to be ? Who was their leader ? Had they any one equal to the Right Hon. Gentleman who was at present at the head of Government ? No, he defied them to name one. He then proceeded to compare the opinions of va rious Gentlemen in Opposition. These he shewed to be very contradiflory. He could prove others to be equally so ; and if he were to take them by lot, he would engage, that out of " five lots " he might draw, " four of the couples would disagree." —(A laugh.) Gentlemen Might make it difficult for him to• speak, but this flattered him, as it proved his argument pinched then - 4 and therefore he would not drop it. He was far from being intimidated by any of them. When they attended to him as they did‘to others, he should be Jess proud, and perhaps their conduet might enable him to express ,himseif shorter than he otherwise could t!o. Be conclud ed strongly opposing the motion. Mr. CANNING. hal EllliCipled the turn which the discussion had taken ; nernely, to a considera tion of the p inciples on which the new Admi nistration (if it Could be so called) was formed. — It was - painful to an individual standing alone, un backed by any party, tceexpress his opinion on this subject ; but it was a duty from which he .had de termined not to shrink. There were two mate rial considerations on which the House had to de cide. The first, the military exertions abroad. The second, the peace and tranquility of the Em pire at botne. With respe& to the first, he must say, that he shan't most warmly and strenuously support any Government that would carry them on as they had been carried on for the last two years; but the oilier consideration demanded mote delibet ation. He had' opposed the recent motion, to consider the state of Ireland, because it implied a censure on Government, which he did not think they deserved; and because he thought that the first step towards concession to the Catholics should, be taken by the Executive, rather than by Parliament. But when his Right Hon. Friend distinelly declared, that as long as the Goverement rested on its present basis, the door must be shut against the Catholic Claim, (for no other meaning could be collet fed em 'what had fallen from his Honnourable Friend), the question became serious. The Noble Loid declare 1, that his opinions on this subjed retwined the same as formerly. So did his. But had nothing happened since the Noble Lord was be foie in Administration ? He had no hesitation in saying, that when the - Noble Lord and he were in Administration together, there existed on the part of their revered Sovereign, a conscientious scruple, adveree to the Roman Catholics, which no argu ment could overcome. Prudence, duty, and feel , l i ng combined to determine that the claims of the Catholif.s should be for a little time withheld, ra ther than that the peace of the Monarch, who for 50 years had constituted the happiness of his people, should be disturbed. But circumstances were now widely different, The obstacle (would to God it had not been so !) was removed. It was impossible to say what would be the result of disappointing the well-founded .hopes of the Catholics on the subjeCt. It was pre' oseerous to talk of discussing the ques tion with. ut any influence on the part of the Crown. The abolition Of the'Slave Trade has been referred to as an instance of a snbje& discussed under similar circumstances. The feat certainly was, that on the first year of that discussion, Mr. Pitt was so satis fied that it must prove successful, that he rashly pledged himself not tb use the influence of Go vernment in its support. What was the consequence? That it remained uncarried, until the,Hon. Gen tleman opposite, profitting by experience, made it a Government question and succeeded. Such ought to be the course adopted with respect to the Catholic Question. Until the claims of the Catholics were conceded, the country would never be safe. But he was far froM wishing that the concession should be unqualified. On the contrary, he thought it ought to be accompanied with ample guards for the security of the Constitution, both in Church and State. Disapproving, therefore, of the condua of Government on this question, he should .certainly vote for the motion of the Hon. Baronet. With respect to Spain, he confessed, that in the secession of Marquis Wellesley Government had lost their main spring. To the exertions that might still be continued in the Peninsula; he should give his cordial support, as on malty other points. On the subject of the currency, for instance, he thought that the course adopted by the House last year, whether wisely or not was not the question, was conclusive. The general system of our foreign rela tions he "highly approved, arid he declared, that should any other set of men be placed at the head of Government, who might think it expedient to abandon that system of werlate, by which the country had been raised to its present glorious height, he %Quid give them his determined oppo sition. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY coul.l not suffer the Hoßse to separate without noticing a most important ex pression which had fallen !tom his Right Hon. and Learned Friend. In alluding to my Lords Grey an&Grenvalle, he had stated, that they had bone nothing on the Catholic Question during their ad ministration, further than " inserting a.something in the Mutiny Bill." Now he (Sir Samuel) recol le&ed, that at tine time of the introdutiion ' this " something" was reptesebted by his Right Hon. Friend as a matter of sitcli tremendous importance,, that he had noticed it in his public address to his constituents, and added; that the King would make a stand for the Constitution, and he bad stood by his Sovereign on that occasion. This was - so irnper: tam a fad, that he could not avoid noticing it,now; for his- Right Hon. Friend, to setae his own pur pose then, took occasion to make that publ'c state ment, which his followers re-echoed, and had nea ly raised a war of religion in the country. The CEIANCELLOtt of the EXCHECLUEIt was de. sirous of setting right one of the most eitra,rdi nary misrepresentations ,which he had ever heard— , the more extrantdinaty, as coining from a persint sd . capable of understanding every thing that could pass. He (Mr. P.) had certainly made use of the: precise words imputed to him ; but he had stopped there ? Had he not said that the " something " was introduced upon such arguments and princi ples, that, to persons possessing any thing like wisdom, or the qualities of Statesmen, must evit dently appear to encourage hopes beyond that pro posit.on, and they must know, might lead to tire most dangerous consequences. The noise in the House might have prevented his lion. Friend from hearing distinctly, for, he could not have intended knowingly - to have misrepresented him. . Sir THOMAS Ttni•rox - replied, and then the Elouse divided— Ayes t 36 • • Noes 2 09 • Majority agaiust the Nlotiort -73 The House adjourned at three o'clock this morning; MA I I.s. AR a D— I Br2ZIIS, r Dublin, l' Waterford. 1) LI fi —1 Malta, z Guernsey, 2 Jersey. PRICE OF STOCKS. THIS DAY AT TWSLVZO'CLOCK. Consols. - 6311 Red. Ann. - 6zlf I Published by WI I LI A M AItMIG E R SCRIPPS, South Molton-street, Gr nYeror- square, or the taper, Leiters for the Editor, &c. (post-paid), must be addressed... THE SUN. SOLIIM QUIS DIC4kI ?A I.SUM AUDIS A T ? L 0 N I) 0 N. FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1812. We this morning received Co iunna Papers, from which the following are extraets : VALADOLID, FEB. 3.—A1l hopes of succouring Ciudad Rodrigo having vanished ; the troops which• marched for that purpose have returned. "On the , 30th ult. five Generals, with e'altt pieces of Artillery, and 5000 men arrived here, and the following day marched for Burgos. " On the tst inst . . entered this place, 6009 men, with 14 cannons, and many waggons ladtn wirit sick ; and on the same day, set out for Burgos, the Officers and Staff of the Army of the North, and 16 pieces of artillery, belonging. to the Imperial. Guard, which went from Tordesellas to Tudella, and thence through Arunda to its place of destination. The 6000 men who arrived the day before yesterday ? have matched by the same road for Burgos, and it is probable, the remainder will take the same route, be cause there is no corn in the magazinesiand meat has " The Duke of RAGUSA, who wai lesterdly peaed,'h , ts not yet atrived. I , is understood that the Imperial Guard, the regiment of Neutchat-1, and the Poles, will march for France; and we are likewise assured that the troops have received orders to take - a position upon the Ebro, beeausa there is no subsistence, not- any reinforcements cotne.d,, A Debate took place last night in the House of Commons upon a Motion on the State it the tion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER err tered into a most able vindication of every pa i l of his recent conduct, in reply to Mr. TIERNEY anti Mr. WHITBREAD. His speech 'was received with the loudest cheers. Lord CASTLEREAGH took his seat on the Trea sury Bench ; he will this day receive the Seals of 011 lee as Secretary of State for the Foreign De partment. PLYMOUTH, FEB.. 26.—Yesterday a severe storaa was experie.a:d at this port, accompanied by thun-. der and lightning, the &fleas of the latter have been severely felt among.the shipping; one of the crew of his Majesty's ship Salvador del Mundo, (the guard ship in Hamoaze) when at the topmast-heal. of that ship, was struck by it, and instantly felt on deck and expired. The lightning remained between decks some minutes, and we regret \ to state many of the crew were severely injured.--- Several of the crew belonging to the !Formant marl of war, lying in Cawsand Bay, were also much hurt by the lightning, and the masts of that ship were so much damaged, as to render it necessary that Oa should g() up the harbour immediately to take_ io new ones. It is feared that other ships have sc ceived lika damage. THE THEATRE.--At the Lyceum a new Fay was introduced last- night, under the title of The !louse of Morville ; the plot and char.r6ters, a 4 stated in the bills, '' drawn in humble iuritation oi the ancent English Dramatists." There wps thing of striking novelty in the fable or i charaelerg of this Play, but the sentimenft, and: the cast of tie language, were in the style which the author pro fess‘ d to copy, and were often vigorous and impres sive. The great fault in the cOnstrueion of this Pl:ty is, that the audience ale told what is to 11,ipri-o, and afterwards bear in narrative what 'has passed action.—As the piece is very much too long,• this objection may be easily removed.—The acting Way throughout very commendable, particularly that of RAYMOND, WROLIGIiTON, DECAMP, and:Nits. ED' WIN. The Prologue was a poetical eulogium on Winter, and the Epilogue a very humonrous touch at the times. The frequent mention of " Law," ex cited much laughter, and induced t RAYMONDiO Ste,) forward and,_beg-thrik the au&ence w o uld h ear cie play out, and in the name of the Proprietors pledged himself to withdraw it, if it were finally disapproved. With judicious curtailment and compression, it will probably be repeated with success. Report errone ously ascribed it tO Sir JAMES BLAND 13ORGESS.-^" The scenery was rich, piauresque, and beautiful.