The Sun. — London, England, 1846-04-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. - 110 USE OP LORDS, April 24. Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. SALE OF SPIRITS ON SUNDAY. The Earl of REDESP, ALE presented a petition from the inhabitants of the ros;il burgh of Inverness, in public meeting assembled, praying that a stop might be put to the sale of in toxicating lienors on the Sabbath-day. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Messengers from the House of Commons brought up several Bills, which were laid on the table. CHARITABLE BEQUESTS ACT. Lerd BEAUMONT ir:bsented a petition from a person pro fessing the Roman Catholic religion, residing in Lancaster, complaining of le interference of the Roman Catholic bishop with certai n 'moneys b equeat h e d for charitable purposes, and rayin g eeat the House would order that the funds should aPPP.ed for the purposes for which it was intended. NEWENHAM'S DIVORCE CASE. Lord BROUGHAM wished to present a petition to their Lordships which referred to the case of Wm. Burton Newen lam- A petition had been presented to that House which, 1 2ers the suggestion of his Noble and Learned Friend upon the Woolsack, was set aside on the account of informality. It was con sequently withdrasrn, and an amended petition had been framed, which upon being submitted to his Noble and Learned Friend bad met with his approval, and he now begged to submit it to their Lordships' consideration. Lord CAMPBELL had understood that the parties to that 'petition had never met together as man and wife, but if they had met together as man and wife in a single instance, and there had b een i ssue from that marriage, he should most decidedly oppose the reception of the petition. THE CORN-LAWS. The Duke of CLEVELAND held in his band a p which h e part i cularly desired to call the attention the landed Lordship s . I t was from parties connect/ withpetition their ition to individuals. interest, and was signed by upwards came from that class of persons who ar o e d f o that the :o' v s r t a m ye at . erially affected by the existing corn-laws, an now - enjoyed might amount of protection 01 9' upon the subject were 110 t be reduced. His oleinl ; ns n ecessary for him to say too well knowe, to render to i its prayer, but that he not only thee he assented heartily ter:incurred which this country now enjoyed.in their oppostion to the re duction. of the protection He wouldthe House by going through the petition, would just read the hea ds of it. notbut weary he The Noble Duke then proceeded to do so. Some of the statements were to the effect that the petitioners were of opinion that a free trade in corn would be the rain of the home grower. He concluded b y d ec l aring he believed that the petitioners were right, while that the pro ceedings of many representatives were in direct contradiction of the promises they made at thn last general election. ABOLITION OF DEODANDS BILL. Lord CAMPBELL said, in rising to move the order of T e e d r y upo is hi th s were alris Bill he would say but a very few Words. Lord s peady aware of the utter inutility of Inflicting deodands. The formal manner in which they were imposed before the coroner was su c h as might be supposed these woul sta fire in the C our t o f Queen's Bench, but __proceeding s we re invariably quashed in that Court. Mr. Wakley, the coroner for the county of Middlesex, a gen tleman of great experience, had assured him, and had autho rised him ta say that no benefit whatsoever arose in any in stance front deodands under the present law. With regard to the other Bill , which formed a part of the same measure, it would be enough to read the preamble, which contained two assertions.—( Hear.) He asserte d , was h that remedyaccordingatfor a to the p resent l aw of deodand there death caused. U n d er th e p resen t l aw the doctri ne was, t hat when death ensued the life of a man was so valuable th a t no estimate could be put upon it, and its loss. If a accordingly no remedy was to be obtained for man had a limb broken onacc ount of th e negli genes of coach proprietors of railway negligence com p anies,ha d he had a legal remedy to resort to, but if their been of a still grosser character, so that death ensued, there was no remedy to be given to the surviving relations, and the wi.iiow of the man was thrown upon the world. The general ride of the English law was, that where there was a wrong done the law should give seine compensation ; so that in cases of murder there was net only a punishment to th • crimi nal, but a compensation to the surviving relatives. That law was not put in practice, but he believed that it was admitted in England, and also in all the continental nations. He trusted they would allow these Bills to be read a second time, without offering any opposition to them, as ha would require again to draw the attention of their Lordships and of her Majesty's Government to them. He had, within the last five minutes, been told that the railway interest to es so enormous in the House of Commons that it would be utterly impossible for these Bills to have the chance of succeeding. One company alone, he was told, could muster as many as eighty votes. It might be that there were many railway proprietors who were Members of Parlia ment also ; but he hoped that they would magnanimously forget that they were railway directors only, and that they wool consider that they were citizens and subjects—that they were men —and, therefore, bound to do full justice to their fellow men. The Noble Lord concluded by moving the second read ing of the Deodands Abolition Bill, and the second reading of the Death by Accident Compensation Bill. Lard LYTTELTON said it might be , remembered that last year he had introduced a Bill having similar objects with those introduced by the Noble and Learned Lord opposite. He was glad that the matter had fallen into abler hands than his own. He would willingly give the measures his sup port, and he trusted they would meet with no opposition on the part of the other branch of the Legislature. The B:11 of last session, to which he had referred, had received the sanction of the legal authorities in that House, but he understood that the legal authorities in the Lower House had met it with some objections. Lord BROUGHAM said that he entirely agreed with the Noble Lords who had already spoken upon this measure. He (Lord Brougham) was one of those who attended in Committee upon this subject, and he could only say, that every attention had been given to the preparation of these Bills ; and he was therefore sorry to hear that they were likely to be objected to in the other House. He considered that if a slight alteration could obviate these ob jections, they ought to introduce them. As regarded com pensation for the loss of life, the law of England was an exception to the law of every other country. The law on the subject had 'seen, that life was so valuable that no compensation could be given for it. However logical that might be, he could not give his assent to it. He thought it was high time that this opprobrium to their law should he rerneve,i, and he thanked the Noble and Learned Lord for taking the matter up, and introducing the measure. After a few words from the LORD CHANCELLOR, to the effect that they should make themselves satisfied the grounds on which objections to these Biils had been taken, so that on technical grounds there might be no pretext here after for rejecting them, the Bills were put and severally read a second time. LOAN TO THE IRISH PEOPLE. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition in from a,place its Ireland, the name of which did not transpire, the prayer of which he could not agree, though it was couched in respectful terms. It concluded with asking Parlia ment for an immediate loan of three millions sterling, with an annual loan s ?or the construction of public works an Ireland. CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. The - Earl of ELDON presented several petitions against the Charitable Trusts Bill. The petitions were from the Masters of Trinity House in Hull, the masters and wardens of the Paper Stainers' Corporation of the City of London, from Middlevnels, in Cheshire, and the rector and churchwardens of St. Mary, Whitechapel, in the county of Middlesex. THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that he was not about to move that the report of the Select Committee on the rebuilding of the new Houses of Parliament should be taken into consideration, in consequence of the opinion which their Lordships had expressed on the last occasion the subject was introduced, that it would be better that the matter should be left in the hands of her Majesty's Government. He would, therefore, ber , to move that the order of the day should be discharged. But he would beg leave, before he would de so, to hear his Noble Friend the Commissioner of Woods and Forests make some statement on the subject. As yet he had Made none, and he very much feared that their Lordships' interests were not properly taken care of. If he was not deceived, Mr. Barry, in an swisr to a q uest i on put to him, said that their Lordships had not any foundation, from the evidence given at the Com mittee, for the suppos i t i on that they would have their House ready ' for their reception by the commencement of next ses sion. He begged leave to say there was not one Noble Lord on that Committee who was not led to believe that such would be the fact. That it would not only be most possible, but most easy to effect it.—( Hear, hear.) And when they looked to other countries and saw the works which were daily carried on of a much greater magnitude, they should conclude that their interests were not taken care of, especially when they became aware that the House of Commons had ordered the preparation of fifteen or twenty rooms for the immediate reception of their Committees. This might, he had no doubt, be most con venient for the dispatch of public business ; but he did say that it did afford a very strong ground of suspicion that their Lordships' interests had not been attended to. Great inconvenience arose to the law Lords, Who were so good as to sit many hours in the day in that Rouse for the purpose of the dispatch of public business. He wished, therefore, to know whether there was any obstacle at present in existence to prevent the elder and more impor taut Members of the Houses of the Legislature from obtaining titeheutsainsyse a ccommodation? H e wished to learn from his Noble at Me at was the present conditi on o f the buildings of th, Irma m?ment, what prospect there was what me ssel:4l'l'g speedily finished, and especially r Lordships getting into their own Chamber was sthof thei r He did hope that during the,. 11:41"ing of neat sessim paltry squabbles, wilich n a e ::". n tr laentike none of those the works of late, Would ' l 7:""xt f ito hays impeded progress, pfoarrstiuosie wdeemtoed inthteerm fere with their future steel to be altogether unworthy of under the direction of her Nlajesty's GovernmentsfelifficallY squabbles and disputes were not suffered to exist, not s o u n e l h y would there no: be any intermission of the works but they would be - so rapidly advanced as to enable their ardships to take possession of their new House at the beginning of next year. Viscount CANNING, before answering the question of his Noble Relative on its main grounds, would beg to reply to his remarks with respect to the House of Commons. On the Ist of the present month the Speaker had sent notice that a considerable addition to the number of cemmittee roome would be wanted on the 27th instant, and at the ind.acement of the Speaker and Sergeant-at-Arms, an endea vour was made to secure two or three houses in Palace-yard, but they were ultimately found to be quite insufficient for the purpose, He then spoke to Mr. Barry, by whom it was agreed, that the committee-rooms in the new Houses might be made ready by that time. With respect to the accommodation of their Lordships, there were in the new Houses nineteen committee rooms, which were precisely in the same condition as thi committee rooms of the Commons at the time Mr. Barry un dertook their preparvion, and he believed that if it were needed, they could be got ready with equal expedition. If their Lordships should require further accommodation, he had taken care to guard against that by desiring Mr. Barry to 0 . - t ien a further access to their rooms on the river front, to which their Lordships would have exclusive access. He was Imrry to say he could not answer some other parts of the Noble Lords' question, particularly with regard to the time at which their Lordships' House was likely to be finished. lie regretted to say that they were not in such a state of forward ness as had been expeeted But with regard to the squab bles t o b y hi. Noble Friend, as having taken place be il.. r egr etted an d Mr. Barry, he begged to say that it was ranch t o ) gentlemen that the differences that had arisen between these t wo men were o f a much more serious character than mere squabble,. It appeared to h• r been laid upon their Lordshi s t. ' were of so momentou s a charaPc : tma l;le7t m hat 'e th r o e s p e or d t iff t differences were Pla.t.hat unless a Government investigation were to take additional' the country would be put to an enormous the delay would be much greater. been clearly shown that the system (1 expense,t!7 believedia i?„annaadri apparatus adopted se, ultimatelyvbo.e by Dr. Reid was such as would suit the Hes e , e , of was, in fact, at all feasible, although the required extended over eight or nine aerea ear land.—(Hear.) Would their Lordships then peril th e safety of the New Houses by any hasty step ? He had considered that the best course which could be followed would be to select three gentlemen, whose eminent positions and professional and scientific acquirements would ensure a sonnd Select Committee appointed to try. the merits such election, intended to be objected to, giving the he a d s were required by themselves or agents tode o l f iver in to the the list of voters in the eveningof the objections, and distinguishing the same agai ns t t h e sin the o'clock names of the voters. It further enacted that th ese objections could o f t n h o e t da b y e hef l o o r d e g t e h d e thannlaotmerination o Com mittee. Now, how did he stand under this Act. 240 elec. tors had voted for him, and not less than 96 had been objected t o .—(Hear ' and laughter.) Wh at h e asked, then, was his position ? The fair meaning of the clause, he apprehended was, that they would give to every man accused of bribery the chance of meeting the charge. He trusted that the House in that case would give him the same chance of meeting the charge that would be given in any tribunal in the country, He was in the meantime as ignorant as any Hon. Member in the House what particular charge would be brought against him, or what voter would be objected to, and, under those cir cumstances, he would put it to the House whether this was the fair course to adopt with respect to a Member of that House ? As he had said before, he conceived that the meaning of the clause was, that the parties objecting should have stated their case distinctly, and have at once in formed them what charges they intended to bring forward. He mentioned this, not so much for hissown sake as for their guidance in future election cases, for how was it pos sible for him to meet objections when he did not even know what witnesses would be called against him? His only intention in rising was to submit his ease to the House, and to show how the parties who opposed his return to Parliament were disposed to act towards him in the matter. He would not, however, trespass on the House further than to say, that he was absolutely in the dark as to the exact charges which were to be brought against him, and that it would be to the interest of Members placed in a similar position, if the House would consider whether the Act of Parliament ought not to be clearer than it was, so that Members whose retucn might be petitioned against might be put in possession of the allegations which would be brought against them in Committee. Lord G. SOMERSET, who spoke in so low a tons as to be hardly audible in the gallery, said he understood the Hon. Member objected to the clause as it now stood, but it was im possible to avoid the inconvenience which it imposed on Mem bers whose return was petitioned against. Mr. J. COLLETT said the Hon. Member might think him self fortunate that so small a number of those who voted for him at his election had been petitioned aeainst. On one occa sion his return was petitioned against, when the whole of his supporters were objected to.—( Laughter. ) Mr. O'CONNELL said, when his return for Dublin was petitioned against, 4,000 of his supporters were objected to. Sir R. H. INGLIS said, if he understood the Hon. Member rightly, he wished to obtain a list of the names of the persons whom he was accused of having bribed.—( Laughter, during which Mr. Cochrane dissented.) Then he apprehended many Hon. Members had so understood him ; but it appeared that his charge was against the law as it stood, and not against in dividuals, and because 96 out of his 210 supporters had been served with notices of objections, of the exact nature of which be complained that he had not received information. if it nan been his misfortune to have bribed—(Laughter) -96 persons, he:( Sir R. H. Inglis) could not understand why he objected to the serving of notices, or their objecting to their votes on that account. Mr. B. COCHRANE appealed to the well-known candour of the Right Hon. Baronet, and was at a loss to know how he could have so understood him. He had always understood that the Act provided it, the affording of opp or t un i t i es t o Mem bers whose returns had been objected to, in order that they might knew the charges against them, and to provide rebut ting evidence. This opportunity was even given to criminals in all the tribunals of the country. The SPEAKER called the Hon. Member to order, and he resumed his seat. Mr. AGLION BY understood the Hon. Member to object to the clause in the Bill, and did not believe that the Hon. Ba ronet the Member for Oxford intended to say that he admitted there was any ground for the charge of bribery. Every Mem ber present had so understood him. He thought there was no means of getting rid of the difficulty except by means of costs. Lord J. MANNERS would be glad to know what the real intentions of the framers of the Act were, and thought a clause so incautiously worded ought to undergo some revision. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said they had fallen into a most irregular dircussion, for the House had nothing whatever to do with the question before them. ft was for the Committee down stairs to de cide whether the notice was valid or not, or whether the notice was so framed as to be an evasion of the Act of Parlia ment. The Act itself put a check upon improper objections by giving the Committee power to award costs, and that was the only re=sible means by which the Legislature could guard against improper and frivolous objections. Mr. P. BORTHWICK was glad to find that his Hon. and Learned Friend had now so much confidence in the law of Election Committees, and trusted that this increased confidence arose out of reforms which had taken place since a memorable instance in which his Hen, and Learned Friend and himself were engaged.—(Hear and laughter.) Both of them had good reason to recollect that instance, and if he remembered rightly the case was precisely similar to that of his Honourable Friend the Member for Bridport. He remembered that there was a great number of objections, many of which turned out to be of so frivolous and trivial a character that the Committee declined to entertain them. He thought Hon. Members should, for their own pro tection, see that the law was properly amended so as to prevent the recurrence of such cases as these. The Hon. Member for Bridport deserved the thanks of the House for calling atten tion to this subject. The question that the Committee should meet at eleven o'clock to-morrow was then put and agreed to. Mr. O'CONNELL, who spoke in a tone so low as not to be heard in the gallery, was understood to move for certain returns connected with the present state of Ireland. Captain LAYA RD moved for a return showing the number of men who had volunteered to regiments in India from the last five regiments that bad been ordered home from that country. The Hon. and Gallant Member also moved that the petition from Chelsea Pensioners, complaining of deduction of five per cent. (presented April 21) be printed. WIGAN ELECTION. On the motion of Mr. BRIGHT, the minutes of evidence taken before the Wigan Election Committee were ordered to be laid before the House. COLONEL STODDART AND CAPTAIN CONOLLY. Mr. B. COCHRAN rose to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government relative to the families of the two unfortunate gentlemen who lost their lives at Bokhara, namely, Colonel Stoddart and Captain Conolly, Those officers were employed in the service of the Government at the time they lost their lives in Bokhara, and therefore he (Mr. Cochrane) was of opinion —he was sure that it would only be an act of justice towards the families of those officers to give some tribute of respect to them. He was not aware whether Colonel Stoddart had surviving relatives, but he was sure that Captain Conolly had, and he (Mr. Cochran.) hoped that some provision would be made for them. Sir R. PEEL said that the only sum which was left dis posable in the hands of the Crown, as rewards for public services, was 1,2001. per annnm ; that 1501. per annum had been allowed to the two surviving sisters of Colonel Stoddart, and he was not aware that there were any surviving relatives of Captain Conolly; if there were, he was sure that that very eminent and wealthy body the East India Company would, in accord ance with their accumstorned liberality, act with what they considered due regard to their servants.—(Hear, hear.) He regretted very much that there was not a larger stun left for this purpose in the hands of her Majesty's Govern ment.—(Hear, hear.) opinion heing ,given, and would enable Govern men t t o ac t w ith confidence. The three gentlemen selected with that view were to follow the instructions given to them, and they had been requested to consider how far practicable, and if practicable, how far it would be advisable to apply Dr. Reid's system a ventilation to the New Houses of Parliament, and t : all the subordinate offices. Also whether the application of the system should be restricted to the New Houses of Parliament generally, or to a more limited portion, and whether it would be of advantage to apply the s y s t em t o diff erent portions of the building separately and independently. The Government were also anxious to ascertai n h ow f ar D r . R e id' s system was com patible with the rend er i ng th e b u ildi ng fi re -proof. These op inions they had, l as tly, b een d es i re d , accor di ng to the they formed on th ese po i n t s , to repor t h o w the building a s were necessary f or Dr. Reid * would be fur nished to him, an d w h e th er f urt h er informationhat he manner. Tre ears pl a ns of had been uch quisite, and t o w h a t ex t en t, a nd i geenet lw known as an architect, who had construe gentlemen sele c t e d were Mr. Hardwineketwed a th in Lincoln's Inn ; Professor Graham , a n new buildings welt r ofessor of chemistry experience, and who had paid great attention to the r tila e t a ion of mines, &c. At the in the London University ; and M t r. George Stephenson, who was known as an engineer of g be had not come to the determi nationassure their Lordships that t very mature and anxious con • without first plush the House might i v t e o n tject to this course, but he could he had just stateddlt that, on taking upon himself this w sideratiorn cons ideration of their Lordships. He had reason to beli eve responsibility a , na he he sou ld at once submit the matter to the d not take up more than a very f ew d ais , that the inquiry gentlemen should have b een cornm u and they should reed an answer in that time. Wh en t h e opinion of these g .est ,s n i ce ted to her Majesty's Government, if it should be necessary to take such a course as would in terfere with the arrangement already existing between the Government and Dr. Reid, or if those gentlemen should prescribe a course in any way at variance with the plans already existing, it would be right that the Government, before any steps were taken in the matter, should state their intentions to Parliament, to give an opportunity to Noble Lords and Hon. Members of making any remarks they might think fir. He thought that it was better that he should fortify himself with the opinions of the gentlemen he had mentioned, before coming down to the House to propose that they should go on at all hands and risks, or relieve the burden from one or other of the gentlemen through whose miskprehensions these delays were occasioned. Lord BROUGHAM said that no man in that House could doebt that the Noble Lord had given not only a clear and sate factory explanation, but that he had adepted the very b,•st course he could under the circumstances. The inquiry was now brought within a reasonable compass, and he thought the course proposed by the N. ble Lord the very hest that cou'.d be adopted. Their Lordships at present suffered most severs ly under the processes of Dr. Reid—(Laughter)—he meant under the processes of ventilation brought into use by that gentle man ; and for himself he could only say that, sitting there from ten o'clock in the morning until five at night, he never suffered more from cold in his life than he did while attending to his legal duties. On that day he had suffered most severely. What the reason was he could not say; whether it was that addieional fuel had been put ea—(Laughter)—or whether there had been a complete stoppage of external air—or perhaps it might have arisen from the want of their Lordships' presence. At all events, he could not say from what particular cause the cold had arisen, but cold it certainly had been. He could assure the House that the Noble Marquis had not exaggerated when he had spoken of the severe services of the law Lords. It was diametrically opposed to the fact that they could not get into the House within a short period, for the whole evidence before the Committee up-stairs proved that they might have got into their new House in eight or ten months at the furtherest. He did not mean that they were to wait until every nook, and cranny, and crevice, and rat-hole in the House was ventilated.—( Laughter. ) He thought that the plan of ventilation under which he had suffered that morning was the most xtravagant principle that was ever brought before the notice of Parliament. He trusted that the inquiry would go on, and he was sure that no better men could Le chosen than the men named by the Noble Lord. He hoped he should not be considered as detracting from the opinion of the Committee if he added that some of the questions submitted to them answered themselves. There was no difficulty whatever in coming to a conclusion, and that before many days. He took no part with either of the individuals implicated in this quarrel, but he considered it was their bounden duty to see that i.o squabble should interfere so as to detract from the progress of this public work. He had heard the other day, when up stairs, with the greatest indignation, that the works had been su3pended for several months, in consequence of the disputes between the two parties. Such a state of things should be put an end to.—( Hear, hear.) Lord CAMPBELL considered the Noble and Learned Lord had been too severe in the speech which he bad just made. He would not enter into the controversy between Mr. Barry and Dr. Reid. He would throw no blame on Mr. Barry, who might have conducted the works with perfect skill and the greatest care, but he must say that the Noble and Learned Lord was prejudiced in the case. The fact was, the ventilation was per fectly successful. They had only to look to the House of Common 3, where this ventilation had been most successful ; both in respect to the temperature, heat, and air, it was the best place of legislature ever built. He hoped that the sneers of the Noble and Learned Lord would not be allowed to prejudice Dr. Reid. He admitted at the same time that while the ven tilation of the House of Commons had been perfectly successful, the ventilation of their Lordships' House had been unsuccessful. At one time they were in Greenland, at another in Bencoolen. Noble Lords who came there from five to seven to listea to amusing speeches, such as they had heard, could not speak of the matter as he did, who sat there on Scotch appeals often for six hours in the early part of the day. Therefore he lived that they would have some comaatision on them, and that no relaxation would be m a d e i n th e i r e ff orts in order to get the new chambers. Lord REDESDALE hoped that, though they admitted the importance of getting the House ready as soon as possible, they should take care not to manage matters as they had hitherto been done. The House of Commons had only to say 6. We want a c,rtsin number of committee-rooms by a certain day," and it was done directly. Now these committee-room; were net in a state o t greater forwardness, when that ord. r was issued, than their Lordships' House. In fact their House was now in such a state that it only required the completion of the ventilating apparatus ; for the flooring and ceiling and the four walls had been finished ; and with regard to the ventila tion, he believed that there were two chambers for that pur pose, one beneath the flooring of the House and the ether over the roof, and the apparatus required nothing more now than a permanent fitting-up. If those fittings-up should b • made in one of the chambers he had mentioned, and should be found l not to answer, th en th e on l y i nconvenience that could arise was the removing of those fittings from one of the chambers that he had mentioned to the other. If, therefore, their Lordships did not come to some resolution now upon the sub ject, they need not expect to get into their House before the next two years. On the motion of the Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, several Bills w.-re advanced a stage, and the House adjourned. Friends around hint. But he felt anxious to know what were the principles which would be adopted for providieg food for the starving people—and the question was anxiously put by men of every party, without any distinction as to their opinions. With respect to the supplies of Indian meal, he must beg to observe that those supplies were at present totally inadequate to the necessity that existed. The next substitute was oats— the substitute to which the people were most accustomed. Now it was a fact well known that the price of oats had been con tinually rising, and that within the last two years, the rate had become at least one-third higher than it was before. At Limerick, which was one of the largest places for the sale of oats, the price of oats at present was Is. per stone, when it was well known that Bd. per stone was a price that would suffi ciently remunerate the farmer. Now, with respect to oats, he thought that Hon. Members opposite must consent to dis pense with the law for three months. If they did so, the amount of loss to them in any way_ or to their supp or t ers could not be considerable. With respect to wheat, there would be no reason for such an alteration, for he believed that wheat had not risen in price pro portionate with oats, and it was not largely used in the support of the population of Ireland. Considering all these circa - nstances, he thought that the Hon. Gentlemen opposite might accede to his request, for if it were necessary he would read a long extract from the catalogue of the miseries which the Irish people were now suffering; and he would, therefore, ask the Noble Lord ( Lord G. Bentinck) for an answer to the question, as to whether they would support her Majesty's Government in a suspension of the corn-laws for three months as regarded Ireland. Lord G. BENTINCK begged to thank the Hon. Gentle man for the courtesy with which he had preferred the question which he had just now laid before the H .use. Although there was some reason for surprise at its being put to an isolated Member, yet he would admit at the same time that, though the course was unusual, there was sorn.whing of pro priety about it, when he recollected that the pasty with whom he had the honour to act, although a minority, amounted to 112 in number, He could not forget that it was the party who had placed the present Minister at the head of affairs, and that it at one time comprised 340 members of that House. Neither did he overlook the fact that, though broken in its numbers, it still constituted, when taken with the Irish mem bers, a majority. Under these circumstances, then, he was prepared to give an answer to the question, and he trusted the House would excuse him if, in doing so, he tres psesed at some length upon their attention. 'The question was whether the party with whom he acted would support her Ma jesty's Government in a suspension of the corn-laws as re garded Ireland for three months? The Hon. Gentleman had read a long catalogue of calamitie s now afflicting the Irish pert ple, which it was most distressing to hear: It was painful to hear such a catalogue at any time, even though its cause should have only a temporary existence, but it was still more painful to think that this statement of distress was an annual tale of sorrow. —( Hear, hsar. ) He learned from the report of the Earl of Devon's Commission, as well as from the Hon. and Learned Member for the county of Cork, that in ordinary years there were never less than 2 300,000 destitute poor in 1: eland. But there was nothing in the long account of miseries sshich the Hon. Member had read to induce him or any other man in that House to suppose that the distress now existing in Ireland was more severe than that which was usually felt in the course of this season of the year. He would state to the House the reason why he thought that no measure for the repeal of the cern-laws, or even for the surpension of the corn-laws, would afford the slightest relief to the people of Ireland ; and any measure that had been proposed by the Hon. Gentleman opposite would not be listened to; but he (Lord Bentinck) would maintain that any measure proposed by that Hon. Gentleman, who ruled, as he might say, in the hearts of the people of Ireland, was one entitled to the con sideration and respect of this House. The protectionist party did not feel that the measure for the suspension of the corn laws would afford any relief to the people of Ireland. He be lieved that he spoke the real sentiments of all those Gentle men aronnd him, when he stated, if any measure for the relief of Ireland should be brought forward by any Irish Mem ber, it would have their cordial support. They felt that it was not the want of food in Ireland that occasioned the present distress, they believed it waa the want of money.—( Hear. ) The want of money was the real and only cause of dietress in Ireland, and they thought that was the local applicatory remedy that ought to be applied ; and noney must be afforded in the payment of labour, as the means of enabling the working classes of Ireland to purchase food and other necessaries. That was the kind of measure which they thought her Majesty's Ministers ought to have introduced into that House. They were willing to remove all fear of a diminution in the supply of food by throwing open the ports of Ireland, but in doing so they would enter their solemn protest that such a measure would not afford the slighest relief to the people of Ireland. The Government might cajole the people of;lreland, they might make them satisfied for a time, by telling them that the repeal of the eorn-laws would be a relief to Ireland ; but they (the protectionists would do no such thing, they would hold out no such fabled delusions to Ireland. What, he would ask, was the state of things in Ireland ? And what was the state of the London markets within the last three months as compared with the markets in Ireland ? Why, 260,800 quarters of oats had been imported in that City alone. from the markets in Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the city of Limerick ; he could tell the Hon. Gen tleman that 34,000 quarters of oats had been brought from Limerick into the London market. Was it possible then, by sus pending the operation of the corn-laws in Ireland, the people could be supplied with food at a cheaper rate than at present, when it was a notorious fact that the price of oats in Cork, which is the highest market in Ireland, was lower than the price of foreign oats, exclusive of duty in the London market ? Under these circumstances he would ask, how was it possible that foreign oats could find their way into Ireland ? If the law was suspended, corn would be virtually excluded. The price of foreign eats, without duty, averaged from ls. 9d. per quarter less in London than the pri e quoted in the Irish mar kets. From a circular which he held in his hand, he would quote the comparative prices of oats. The average price of foreign oats, which were equal in quality to English oats, was 245. 6d. in Mark-lane; the average price of oats of all descrip tions in the Cork market, up to April 18, was 225. 3d. The average price of oats of all descriptions in Mark-lane, exclusive of duties, was 225. 6d., being 9d. per quarter higher than the price of oats in Cork. It was clear, then, that it must he utterly impossible, that by a repeal of the corn-laws, or by a suspension of the corn-laws, one single grain of foreign oats could find its way into the Irish market. And the same facts would apply as to the price of Irish wheat. In the city of Cork, the average price of wheat was 495. 6d. ; foreign wheat in the metropolitan market averaged 455. 4d., exclusive of duty. That was a difference of 4s. 2d., which was to the ad vantage of the Irish grower. How then could any suspension of the corn-laws, or any abrogation of the corn-laws, be a means of introducing one single grain, either of wheat or of oats, into the Irish market. It would probably be admitted that there was no pat t of Ireland in which greater distress exists than in the county of Cork. There was the largest number of persons in distress in that county. He would give the House a compara tive statement of the prices of grain that were brought into the market of Cork during the present and previous years. It would appear that the aggregate amount of grain that was brought into the Cork market amounted, in the year 1844, to 344,547 barrels. In the year 1845 the amount was 337,624 barrels; but in the present year the amount had risen to 366,384 barrels—( Hear, h ear ) s , —ana tney were told that the people of Cork were starving for want of food. No such thing, they were starving for want of money to purchase it, and for the want of that employment which would furnish them the means to purchase it. It was not at all a surprising thing that there were riots in Irel an d . I f her Majesty's Mi nisters rang the alarum bell, and told the people of Ireland that they must starve, was it astonishing that the people should rice up in remonstrance against such fearful information ? It was not surprising, under these circumstances, that in one case they should carry off twenty-three carts loaded with meal, and in another case illegally posse's themselves of one hundred tons of flour, and should rise up in arms against its going out of the country.—( Hear, hear.) Why, the Queen't Ministers had told them that famine and starvation was among them. taut what was the real truth of the question? He did not be lieve scarcity was so prevalent as had been represented, and he had it upon no less authority than the Earl of Shannon, who was a resident landowner in the county of Cork, that at all events in his vicinity scarcity did not exist ; and that, although he (the Earl of Shannon) admitted that great distress prevailed, yet that the distress arose not altogether from the want of potatoes, but from the people holding them back, and refusing to sell them, in the expectation of obtaining a higher price. Her Majesty's Ministers had told the country from November last that a grievous famine existed ; they had reiterated the cry that the potato famine was rampant in England, and what was the consequence? As far as his own experience went the price in his own country in December arose to 111. 6d. per sack ;it had now fallen to ss. 6d. per sack. The price during last year was Is. 4d. per bushel, the price during the present year was Bd. per bushel. He could show the House, from a t statement he had in his hand, the comparative prices o f po tatoes in Yorkshire. It would appear from that paper that a farmer who had refused to sell 200 sacks of potatoes in the month of December last year at Ils. 6d. per sack, was now not able to obtain 2s. 6d. per sack. He had heard a similar account from a gentleman in Huntingdonshire, who informed him that on a recent occasion a sale of potatoes took place in Caldecot, in Bedfordshire, that the price realised was 2s. 10d., with six months' credit, while last year the price realised was 3s. 10d., at three months' credit, That gentleman further told him he could have any quantity of potatoes at Is. 4d. per bushel. He (Lord G. Bentinck) was himself a grower of potatoes in Sussex. In November last he carried his crop. He was told that the price of pota toes in Chichester market was 7s. 6d., and was further in formed, that if he held his potatoes to the month of April, he would realise 10s. 6d. The month of April had now arrived, and the price had fallen to 6s. It was clearly natural that the price of potatoes should rise, and not fall, as the year advanced, but their high prices had been greatly increased by the false alarm which had been raised by her Majesty's Ministers, and the people of Ireland were suffering from the same cry. He had recently read in a Cork journal a story of a parcel of old women who were determined not to sell their potatoes unti HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 24. The SPZAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. GLASGOW HARBOUR RAILWAY. The report on the Glasgow Harbour Grand Junction Rail way Terminus was brought up, the amendments and altera tions agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be engrossed SECOND READINGS. The followin g Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed, via.:—Stockport Improvement, Toateth Park Improvement, and the Allhallows Tithes. The Bolton Waterworks Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. GREENE moved, that in consequence of the agents for the Bill not having obtained the breviate in time to give an earlier notice of the second reading, the Stockport Improve ment Bill be permitted to be read a second time this day, not withstanding the time prescribed by the sessional order had ex pired.—The motion was agreed to. Mr. SPOONER moved that the Glasgow Harbour Grand Junction Railway Terminus Bill, of which notice of report had been given for this day, be reported this day, notwith standing the resolution of the House of the 7th day of April.— Agreed to. _ _ th 1 Right Hon. Gentleman with he ' about to ask for those of the party opposite; and he was not IrgSeTATE OF IRELAND. On the question being put that the order of the day be now read, to the effect that the House go into Committee on the Custoras and Corn Importation Bill. Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN rose for the purpose of asking the members of the Government ss;lether they intended taking any steps towards rescuing Ireland from that appalling state of starvation in which it appeared, by the returns lately laid upon the table of the House (and which he hoped every Member of that House had carefully read), that that country was in at this present moment ? These returns represent many places as a ctually suffering under the effects of famine. After this report, he would ask, would the Government invite the House to consider a measure for the purpose of abridging the liberties of the people of Ireland, rather than one for the relief of the poverty which so alarmingly prevailed ? Ai they had failed, however, to do that, he should feel it to be his duty to call the attention of the House to some of the statements that were to be found in the report of the " Scarcity Commissioners." (The; Honourable Gentleman then read extracts of the report for the month of March.) In many places in the county of Clare large bodies of the people could only purchase one scanty meal in the course of the day. In one parish 500 or 600 families were in a state of complete destitution. In the parish of Clare Abbey, out of 200 families, 50 of them were only able to procure one meal in the day. In Naas, also, the supply of pota'oes was so small as to leave the people in a state of the greatest want. In Mitchelstown, also in the county of Cork, there were 20, , 1:00 persons in a state of destitution. In Tipperary, too, the distress was very great, and it was, instead. of di minishing, on the increase to a most alarming degree. (The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to read a statement to show that hundreds of the population in the county of Mayo were lying idle for want of employment ) The Hon. Member, who a comments in onos Osborne escenesand 1 r o . f i e i h n inaudibl e, bb ee n w made itn ess some ed by Capt distress which w os h t at Clonmel. Some people blamed the clergy of the Ryan, the magistrates, who were called upon to quell the dis turbanceßoman Catholich Church for some of the evils, but he could assure the House that they bad done all they could to avert some of this suffering. Government said this state of things had taken them by surprise, but how could they maintain this position after the statements he had just read to the House ? The famine, Government admitted themselves, was anticipated in November, and they ought to have taken steps then to avert it. He would net go veto the details of such a measure that ought to have been adopted, but it was his firm belief that had they encouraged labour in Ireland many of the evils would never have arisen. He charged Government, then, with having failed in the performance of their duty. Another ex cuse was, that they could do nothing without the co-operation of the landlords. He did not know how far this complaint applied to the landed interest of his part s o ia . , : du : bt,:str ~r n,iCeri7r o ol f ntuy t nh h : at : dha be country,,iroceutt distresstbwe eenn b t lay sethtt i h amd e o there was fa w i on, olaetst. the tes Tc scarcely oahuperpG: a roo avf p ne a ter r hne i e s m h t eh n i a n t de bate on the Irish Coercion Bill, and charged the Irish Mean. leers with having delayed the progress of the Corn Bill th y had said, " We cannot discuss the Corn Rill until the ; C e r cion Bill is read a first time." But he could not understandoe how, if the Government undertook to carry on two great and distinct measures at one and the same time, the progress of one should be made dependent on the progress of the other. —( Hear, hear. ) But let it be understood that the Irish Members had distinctly said before the Easter recess that they were perfectly ready to let the Government have the command i Broil,n Englishg behaved time of every Tuesday and Friday night fur the purpose of proeeed oasorestheel a t u ior g i h rh t laughter.) rC. that)o e r e l thei l o r e l Liberals°e: very b a! ,i,i Bill. l y o . .n:t (lh And d t.a h r e , h question w ea a r : English Liberal press, too, had joined in the cry against the conduct of the Irish Members, when they determined to oppose, ' as they conceived it was their duty to do, the very appearance of such an odious measure as that which had bees proposed ostensibly fur the purpose of protecting life and pro ert Ireland. Every Irish Member had distinctly said that hey in was determined to oppose in . every stage the progress of that mea sure, and yet the Government persisted ' in proceeding with it. They had no right to couple the question of Irish famine with the question of protection. If the Government had come down to the House, and told them that the people of Irelard were starving, they would have helped them to have pro . - sided means to have remedied the evil. He did not wish to pocrisy, but he did consider that there was a sin,gular want of use the word, or charge candour in putting forward the Irish famine with the corn law, which was a measure essentialy English. No matter what its influence might be in Ireland, it had been called for solely by the opinion of the English people, and not by the agricultural population of Ireland.---(Hear, hear.) He would frankly state his own opinions upon the subject, as he was afraid of any unpopularity which he might acquire on his side of the House by stating that he was then, as he was in 1842, an advocate of a fixed ditty.—(" Hear, hear," from the protectionists.) The Noble Lord, whom he followed on that occasion, had left him in the rear—(Crip i,f " Hear, hear ") —and the Right Honourable Gentleman had shot beyond him again : on the question of general policy, therefore, he had tha misfortune to differ with his Honourable Mr. T. EGERTON moved that the petitions of James Lock and the Mersey and Irwell Navigation Company (presented 22,1 April), praying for leave to withdraw their former peti tions against the Warrington Waterworks Bill, be read ; and that the Bill be treated as an unopposed Bill, and referred to Mr. Greene and the Members ordered to prepare and bring in the Bill.—The motion was agreed to. Viscount SANDON moved that it be an instruction to the Committee of Selection, that the Liverpool Sanatory Regula tions Bill, the Liverpool Paving, Sewering, and Watering Bill, the Liverpool Water Bill, the Liverpool and Harrington Water works Bill, and the Toxteth Park Improvement Bill, be re ferred to the same Committee.—The motion was alsoagreed to. Mr. ESTCOURT moved that it be an instruction to the Committee of Selection to refer the Bristol Waterworks and Sewerage Bill to the Committee to which the Bristol Water works Bill stands referred.—Agreed to. CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. A petition was presented from the Roman Catholic inhabi tants of Brighton in favour of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, SMALL TENEMENTS. Petitions were also presented from places in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire, praying the House to order the six-pound tenements to be rated to the landlord and not to the tenant. Ordered to be laid on the table. SHREWSBURY AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY. Mr. SPOONER presented a petition from Birmingham against the proposed line of railway, and against the Belfast Gas and Improvement Bills. NO RT il STAFFORDSHIRE R AIL WA Y. Mr. ENT\VISLE presented a petition from Manchester in favour of this line of railway. FISHERIES. Presidet of ' Capt a i n PECHELL beaged to as k a quest i on of the Vice • recollec t ion of the Board of T ra d e . It might be in the the House, that in 1843 an Act was paa*ed, introducing certain r egulations in the fisheries and the Government were that titmoe stated . th i a't , p h t ad sun b i ar the French authorities were about regulations. He had since learnet4 that such done ; and his questio n was, whethe r the colle , ztor s of been bad been furnished with a copy of the orionnances of the French Chamber, as such a proceeding would be extremely useful, so that parties might know under what 1:114S they were acting ? Sir G. CLERK said that the Government had received no officisl information on the subject, taut that a copy of the ordonnances would be furnished as soon as they were obtained. Mr. FELLOWES presented several petitions from the parish of Huntingdon against thei r b eing compelled to pay for the erection of county lunatic a sylu tions praying , that the Government would ' take n into p eti- its consideration the expediency of passing a law, to the effect that there should be no assessments upon houses not exceeding the annual rent of 51. ; and petitions from Suffolk and Hunt ingdon, praying that the House would not sanction a union between the sees of St. Asaph and Ban/or. POOR REMOVAL BILL. Mr. G. BAGLEY presented a petition from the inhabi tants of a parish in the county of Dorset against several of the provisions of the P,or Removal Bill, and also a petition from Swanage, in the county of Dorset, signed by a large number of the clerg,. of the Established Church there, and also by many Dissenters of different persuasions, praying that the House would take measures for the better ob , ervan,e of the Sabbath in that town, by restricting the sale of spirituous liquors on that day. fam resolu'ion had been cause d by the fear ofine expressed o n they could reali se o ne f ar thi ng a piece for them, and this fooli s h the part of her Majesty's Ministers. —( Laughter. ) He be lieved that the high price of potatoes had been greatly exagge rated, and that many of the people were able to obtain them at a fair pric e . If it would allay the excited feelings that existed in the breasts of the Irish people, they were willing to open the ports ; but at the same time they did not believe it would re sult in any good. They were far from thinking that the aboli tion of the corn-laws would benefit Ireland. It was hie (Lord Bentinck's) firm and conscientious belief that the abolition of the corn-laws would be the destruction of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He had pondered well upon every word that fell from ea land. x,ti ,i 3, en n arisec H f., He b y also outth e believed rf the lips of the Hon. Alemb.'r for Limerick. He concurred in eery sentiment that that Hon. Gentleman had uttered. He believed, with him, that the repeal of the corn-laws would not benefit, but, on the contrary, a very high authorit would render still worse the condition of the labourers of Ire action ptheaei , doi with fstrtehses him,cor corn-laws, whichh- laatwth, wouldere thatwouldwould ul calledb at intoerne d. very much to hasten and facilitate the repeal of the Union.— a Roman (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman was himself t il er that had come into his hands, which perhaps was a still igher authority. That letter was addressed by Mr. Hughes, y, and he would road to the House a let- Cath o li e priest of considerable distinction in the county o f M ayo, and a man of high character, to Mr. Moore, on the eve of the late election, and it de.erved to be read for the setirnents the re i n expreved. It was dated the 6 th of Febru ary. It stated that " Mr. Ilughea' pro moting his peal question were of a similar nature to those entertained by Air. O'Connell ; and if Air. 11 ore entertained similar opi nions, the writer would I . disposed ° give his vote to Mr. ,el to Mooreopinions on the re , and whatever little influence he might possess in pro b9yot Sir Robert dist an . (Air. Hughes) expected that if the present Parliament should election " The letter went on to state that ' he continu e for another year, that the county of Mayo would be in Peel Th ewou commerciall would i n a - short a better position to return a repeal .oember.' He further "Y 5l, " lie had another consideration which satisfied him that the repeal of the present Legislative Union was become the law of the eountry. The result of those measures would he to facili tate the repeal of the Union, as when carried into effect, they could not fail to make repealer: of the landed aristocracy of hvci>rers time which were entertained Ireland, for there was not a gen tleman in the country that i would not continue satisfied with those measures. The legis p.tife enantm. nts of Sir Robert Peel would drive out of the . ,Osi, roark,ts Lite agricultural i pro duce of Ii eland. i , e , arni ' would then b e t h rown on it resour ces; the establishment of Irish mar k tits—of Irish manufactures would then ensue_ and, finally, dm neoessity for the construction of an Irish Par. I - BRIDPORT ELECTION. Mr. Bingham Escott, Lord Dalmeny, Mr. Charles Wood, Lord Claude Hamilton, and Sir W. Somerville, were sworn in to try the merits of the I3ridport election. Mr. B. COCHRANE said that he would make a few ob servations to the House relative to the Committee which was t 9 meet to-morrow morning —not in the expectation that the Howe would deviate in any way from the rules laid down—not so much, he said, from any regard to his own personal interest, hut f,om a desire to protect the interests of other Hon. Members who must be placed under similar circumstances with himself, and who must suffer (and he said it with all respect) from the wording of this Act, and therefore as it must be the wish of the House to do justice to the indivi dual Members who composed it, as it must be their anxious desire to give a fair judgment on a question of this nature, he trusted that they would permit hint to occupy their time for a very limited period. By the recent measure which had ben ; broughts allin the by the . Right Hon. Gentleman at the head I ofthe Go vernment for the suppression of bribery, it was enacted i n one of the clauses that in all cases of controverted i parties complaining of such election or rellurn ' 1 THE S UN, 14 ON DON, SAM!) A it , E VENI Nl, APH I I_l 25, 1846. liament to protect those interests would becorhe paramount." This he (Lord G. Bentinck) believei to be the true picture of reasonthe res ul t s whyoft h t o h s e e me Minister asut et i a littenteawsiutrhe thei Ireland, support an of d a n t hye Irisho l y Member was, that he thought by voting for those measures be was facilitating the advent of the repeal of the Union.-- ( Hear, hear, and loud cheers from the Irish Members.) He knew not whether the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government was then secretly considering the probable effects of his policy. It was impossible to foresee, from one tyheearßtioghatnHoothn. Baronet. another, what an e c t o ( Hr, hear.)urseeoafpolic He ( Lo y would be adopted b g y e Bentinck) saw himself that the consequence of that policy would be the dismemberment of the empire, and that conse quence would be further facilitated by the present course of the Right Hon. Baronet. He could well conceive that the distress that would be brought on in Ireland might drive the Irish to plirensy. They had been told by the latest convert—the latest Noble convert to the cause of the repeal of the corn laws, the Earl of Essex, that one class of farmers must suffer by the repeal of the corn-laws—( Hear, hear)—a class of farmers which, in the estimation of that Noble Lord, ought never to have been farmers at all, not being possessed of capital. They were farmers who had got no capital but honour and in tegrity, and these were the men—once the pride and strength of the empire —who were to be sacrificed.—( Hear, hear.) If farmers without capital were to be sacrificed—if the round frocks of England were to be sacrificed, what would become of the Irish farmers ?—( Hear, hear.) They were told that there were 558,000 farmers in Ireland holding farms not exceeding fifteen acres ; and he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite how much capital these 558,000 farmers possessed? He asked what capital they had but their hard, horny hands and sinewy arms, with which they cultivated the land? and these 558,000 Irish farmers of the Earl of Essex were right free to be sacrificed to the political conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet. If they estimated, as he believed they might estimate, that there were not five, but six per sons, to a family in Ireland—for, to their honour and to the credit of the Irish tenantry and Irish reople, he believed, that instead of, maintaining themselves and their own children only, the custom was, among the poorer clas - es, to support their aged and infirm parents —( Hear, hear) — they might, therefore, imagine not five to family, as was the estimate in England, bat estimate six to a family, and they would have at once 3,500,600 persons who would be deprived of subsistence by the measures of the Right Hon. Baronet— ( Hear, hear)—and 558,000 families, or 3,500,000 persons—if the letter of the Catholic clergyman were right—would be de prived of their farms aed homes. There were reasons which counted as high with him as with many others, for maintaining the present corn-laws. If this measure were carried, would it not give cause of dissatisfaction— if they had 3,500,000 people thrown into a state of destitution, in addition to the 2,300,000 already destitute ? Some other measures than the suspension of the corn-laws would be necessary to provide for so much misery.— Hear, hear.) He for one could see no remedy for the evil but in a poor-law, of a construction different from that now in existence. He could see no salvation and no peace for Ireland save in a liberal and generous poor-law, which would be ear r.ed out on the principle that' no Irishman any more than an Englishman should starve. They were told the other night, by the Hon. and Learned ltsember for Cork, that 256,0001. was levied annually for poses -rates in Ireland, 90,000/. of which went to pay the interest of the money laid out in work houses, and to maintain the staff of the Poor-law Commis sioners, leaving 166,000/. to provide sustenance for 2,300,000 destitute poor in Ireland. That amounted to a farthing and about a third per head per week. He understool also that only 37,000 people came to the workhouses to be relieved out of the funds of the poor-law. 166,000/. divided amongst that number only made Is Sid. per week per head, a sum not sufficient to obtain good and wholesome food for them. In the ordinary course of things, and deducting 37,000 people, there were 2,263,000 people left. destitute, and could they he surprised, in the ordinary course of things, that with 2 263,000 people without money, without potatoes in Ireland, there should be riots and disturbances in that country? The people would have food, and there was but one resource, and that was to provide it for them. Was it to be endured that there should be food to the value of 10,000,0001. sterling sent out of Ireland, while not more than 256,000/, should be given to the people in that country? He was well aware that a poor-law was not to he carried without much consideration. That it could not pass in a day— in a week— in a month—or in three months perhaps, in that House, but there must he some immediate provision made for the present emergency.---( Hear, hear.) He did re collect, that in the year 1833 that House almost unanimously supported a measure to grant one million sterling to the desti tute Protestant clergy of Ireland, who were in arrear of their tithes for the years 1831 and 1832. That money became gift to those whose duty it was to pay the tithes; and if they could, in 1833. make a gift of a million sterling to the tithe-payers of Ireland, could they not then, when the people were !starving, break through the rigid rules of political severity—(Loud cheering) —and attend to the wants of Ireland. Let them for the time being supply the wants of the Irish people from the funds of this country, and set to work in earnest to make a lasting and permanent provision for them. These were the opinions which he believed were generally en tertained by his friends sitting around him, and if the Members for Ireland would introduce such measures as these they would have their cordial support. These were the opinions held in former times by an eminent statesman holding the confi dence of that House (Mr. Huskisson.) In the year 1829, Mr. Huskisson said that the introduction of a good poor-law in Ireland would be found to be the introduction of a feeling of security, and would invite and maintain the employment of English capital in Ireland. He said it was that feeling of se curity that brought the greatness and wealth of the country, and it was that feeling which alone could have a similar effect in Ireland ; and unless such a measure was soon brought for ward, all his cherished hopes of the good effect of the Roman Catholic Emancipation Bill would be disappointed. He (Lord George Bentinck) did once, in the bumble position of secre tary to Mr. Canning, twenty-five years ago, possess the confi dence of that illustrious statesman ; and he had often heard him say that it was to the poor-law of England that England owed her strength in the hard struggle against the united arms of Europe. It was in times of the greatest difficulty, when the the people were called on to make the severest sacrifices to bear the burden of the war, that:the poor-law of the country showed its beneficial effects. These were the substantial measures to which his Hon. Friends around him might look for the salvation of Ireland, for the quieting of disturbances. and the maintenance of peace in that country ; and whilst they agreed, in deference to the feelings that had been expressed by the Hon. Gentleman standing so high in the confidence of the people of Ireland, cordially to concur in that suspension, they wished heartily to acquit themselves of believing for one moment, or wishing to make the Irish nation believe that in the suspension, or abolition, of the corn-laws, any relief what ever could be afforded to the misery of one single individual in Ireland.—(Loud cheering.) Mr. V. SMITH said that he should not enter into any dis cussion of the attacks made upon all the English Liberals on that side of the House for having exhibited a want of sympathy on behalf of the people of Ireland. He could say that he him • self had not shown any such want of sympathy, and he believed that many of his Hon. Friends around him could justify them selves in a similar manner. As the Hon. Gentleman had in troduced the question of the return which had been presented of the applications for work in consequence of the scarcity of provisions, he (Mr. V. Smith) would say that he thought that what had been read to the House was not the enly painful part of them. They showed the absence of individual exertion by parties possessing property in Ireland. This was a question that greatly affected the people of this country as well as the people of Ireland. The people of this country were submit ting without a murmur to spend large sums of money for the relief of their suffering countrymen. But the Government and the Houses of Parliament should ask what had been done by the landlords of Ireland. The statement presented the other day not only showed the entire absence of individual exertions, but applications of the most extraordinary nature. One of the applications was from the Earl of Kingston for 500/. to make a fish-pond in his domain, and to employ the people of Ireland. The return was deficient in one respect, for it did not say what answer was returned by the Commissioners. He could not suppose that such an application as that would be en tertained by any Commission or by her Majesty's Ministers, but he wished to know if it were passible for the Right Hon. Gentleman to submit to Parliament any return of what had been done by persons holding property in Ireland, and whether they had made any contribution for the relief of the distress which prevailed. It was due to the people of England, and to the Gentlemen round him, many of whom had contributed largely from their own purses, to inform them whether the per sons possessing property in Ireland, whether absentee or other wise, were willing to come forward and assist by their contri butions. Sir J. GRAHAM (who was very indistinctly heard) said that it was an invariable rule which he had always acted upon, that whenever any sum was advanced for public works in Ireland, one moiety was in the shape of a gift and the other moiety was secured by the Grand Jury presentment, and no advance had ever been made exLept under that rule. Govern ment had advanced money for these purposes, and under that regulation, but in the suburban districts of large towns this regulation could not always be strictly acted upon. The Lord- Lieutenant had a discretionary power in this matter, and if the property of any person were improved by the works, the pro prietor of the grounds always contributed half of the sum expended. With respect to the case put by the Hon. Member with regard to the application for bOO/., that application had not yet been attended to, and he might state that he did not think, that under the circumstances, the Commissioners wouki grant it. r Mr. E. . ROCHE said that he had never heard with more satisfaction any speech made in that House than the speech of the Noble Lord opposite, were it only for one principle laid down in that speoch, viz., that on Irish subjects. The voice of the Irish people expressed through their representatives in that House should be protected. Were there no other as sertion in that speech, and were it to contain no other prin ciple of hope for Ireland, that principle, corning from a man of the Noble Lord's weight and standing in that House, should be received by the people of Ireland with gratitude, and he confessed that he never in his life felt more hope for the future prosperity and peace of Ireland than at the present moment. He thanked the Noble Lord, who had the confidence of the party he represented, for the generous and liberal sentiments he had expressed—that his wish and determination, if he had the power, was to relieve the distress of the people of Ireland. However urgent the misery which the people was suf fering, that expression of sympathy would excite in them tome hope. It was painful and humiliating for Irish Members to come down there every day to detail to the unwilling hearers the misery and suffering which prevailed among their fellow countrymen. Nevertheless, if only to justify the position the representatives of Ireland had taken, it was necessary for them to do so—to state the overwhelming misery which the people were forced to suffer. Perhaps the House would recollect that lately he felt it his duty to detail a great amount of misery and suffering that prevailed in his own neighbourhood. In adddition to what he then stated, he would further inform the House that he had since received a letter fr om Roman Catholic clergyman, who was a competent aut h aut h ority on the state of things that prevailed in that coun ty. letter was one that arose out of a correspondence b etween .e neigh them on another matter the construction of a roade I n h bourhood. He would read an extract from t letter t which was written from the parish of O'Hodda, in t he county of Cork. (The Hon. Gentleman read the extract ins question,which set forth that the distress was increasing ; that the Con servative gentlemen stated that Sir Robert Peel did not care for the distress, only that it would enable him to pass his Corn Bill; that they bad tried to get some corn meal from Liverpool to meet the wants of the population ; that the people con siJered watereresses and turnips a luxury ; and that potatoes were as high as Ils. a barrel, or at the rate of l Id. a stone.) — ( Hear, hear.) When (continued the Hon. Gentleman) he saw the people literally starving, worse than the beasts of the field, he did not care about being told about the representa tives of Ireland interfering with the public time in their appeals to the House of Commons and the Govern ment for the relief of the people. Everthing was asked to give way to the people of England and the Corn Bill. But the people of Ireland were starv ing, and therefore what did they care about the Anti-Corn law League and free-trade ? If they appealed to the Anti. Corn-law League, they got nothing but doctrines of political economy, but on appealing to the Noble Lord (Lord George Bentinck) he would give them food and money.—(" Hear," from the protectionists.) Wherever they found relief, that was the source on which they ought to trust. The Irish Members were called names, and marked with opprobrium by evLry ieribe ;:,ey ale , i weir starving fellow -countrymen. v The common epithets ap t' s to them by the press was that the Irish Members were mpracticable malignano." An HONOURABLE MEMBER remarked, that the remark ; had been used by the Morning Hera'd. Mr. ROCHE said, No ; it was used by the Times news ' paper. The Right Hon. Baronet depended a great dent on his free-trade measures ; but he (Mr. Roche) would ask if free trade would take the people of Ireland out of their slough o! suffering? If so, then ought the Right Hon. Baronet to apply free-trade measures at once—( Hear, hear)—and not hold it in abeyance while he destroyed the liberties of Ire land. If the people of Ireland were to be free, iv seemed they must starve; but if they were to have food, it was upon the condition of their being enslaved. But they (the representa tives of Ireland) said they must not enslave the people of Ire land. He must say, he had more hope from the statements which had fallen front the Noble Lord (George Bentinck ) than anything he had heard for many years in that House. In the great county which he represented he did not know any good the Government had done in the way of relieving the people. In illustration of this, he might refer to the parish in which he resided, with the clergyman of which he had had the correspondence already referred to. That correspondence was about the making of a road for a better connexion with the harbour of Cork, and to employ the people. He (Mr. Roche) wrote to the Board of Works, stating that the resident proprietors were prepared to advance one moiety, if the Board of Works would advance the other. After some correspondence it was arranged, so he understood it, that an engineer should be rent to survey the road, and he had made, he (Mr. Roche) believed, a favour able report. Subsequent to that. he wrote to the Board of Works for information as to the way the instalments should be raised. That was on the 6th of April, and yesterday a letter was forwarded to him on the subject, dated the 18th of April. In the interval nothing had been done to meet. the case; this showed the way the executive Government of Ireland acted; not applying themselves to the question as they ought, but going on in the old jog-t:ot system. This mode of adminis • tering relief was a perfect farce ; nay, it was worse than a farce, it was tragical to the people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) The Government was evidently not equal to the occasion. They undertook the Government of the country and pretended to be doing a great deal, and when he made an inquiry, he found them going on in the old system, and mystifying and deceiving the people of Ireland. The relieving the distresses of the people of Ireland was a much more absorb ing question to him than any other question, and therefore it gave him great pleasure to hear the Noble Lord say, that he was prepared to give them full measure of relief. The speech of the Noble Lord, he could assure him, would be read with the greatest satisfaction on the other side of the Channel, and his name would be received with honour and respect for the senti ments he had uttered. Again, he (Mr. Roche), asked the Right Hon. Baronet, what had he donee...what was he doing to relieve the existing distress? He (Mr. Roche) maintained absolutely nothing. In conclusion, he was glad that the Hon. Member for Limerick had brought the subject under the con sideration of the Howe ; in doing an he was entitled to the support and gratitude of every friend of Ireland. Mr. BELLEW complained of the want of parties duly authorised by the Government to go through Ireland, and look after, and report upon the works necessary to be carried ou:. In many instances already, though grants had been made, the woeks had not been undertaken, from the want of parties to put them into op ration. He would speak for his own county, where no progress had been made in the proposed works. He must say, he did not agree with the Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken, in his estimate of the speech of the Noble Lord (Lord George Bentinek). He (Mr. Bellew) happened to be in favour of a repeal of the corn-laws, though not a repeal of the Union, and he would not be bribed even by the promise of a million from the Noble Lord, to forego his opinion on these subj.'cts.—( Hear, hear.) He complained that the Irish land lords had not done their duty, and that whatever advances were made by the Government would fail to a great extent, unless the landlords were brought to perform their share. The evil was, public opinion was not strong enough in Irela n d t o ma k e the landlords do their duty. In that case, they ought to have a law, to make those who had to give to those who had not, even though the principle of it might not be in accordance with political economy.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. E. B. ROCHE explained. Mr. S. O'BRIEN said that this was not the first time he hail expressed his want of confidence in the Board of Works in ' Ireland, and he did not think the suggestions offered by the Honourab'e Member who had last spoken would supply the de ficiency. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) had gone over to Ireland, and he found the state of the potato crop there even worse than it was represented, and the answers received from the Board of Public Works showed that no reliance could be placed upon them. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) then wrote to Lord Lincoln, stating that he was willing to take charge of his own people, but as the necessities of the neigh bouring district were so great, he could not undertake to support them all. He wrote to Lord Lincoln on Friday. His Lordship replied on Sunday, and said that he would on his awn responsibility send down a Government officer, and on the Monday Mr Griffiths arrived in the district, and on the Wed nesday numbers of the poor were set to work. When he, therefore, heard the remarks of the Hon. Member for Cork that evening, he could not help saying that it would always be a subject of satisfaction to him to bear witness to the zeal, the exertion, and the ability displayed by the Earl of Lincoln in his official capacity—( Hear, hear)—and he was sure that the Right Hon. Baronet might receive his statements with any confidenee ; and it did give him (Mr. O'Brien) the most sincere pleasure thus in his place in Parliament to do justice to the kindness - received from Lord Lincoln. —( Cheers. ) Mr. CALEB POWELL would wish to say one word in reference to an allusion made to a Noble Lord in Ireland, whose name was returned in the Report of the Board of Works as making an application for 500/., with the view of construct ing a fish-pond on his own estate. He (Mr. C. Powell) did not for a moment doubt that this application could be satisfac torily explained from the fact of the well-known philanthropy and patriotism of the Noble Lord. That Nobleman resided on his own property—(Cheers)—and he was profusely lavish of his expenditure for the good of the tenantry. To his (Mr. C. Powell's) knowledge he had_spent 500/. a week f:r many consecutive weeks. The same feeling might have prompted the Noble Lord in this application to Government. Mr. D. BROWNE thought that the Government had ex hibited a most benevolent feeling towards Ireland, but they were mistaken in the means of carrying it out. He quite agreed with the Hon. Member who stated that there was abun dance of food in Ireland, but that, in consequence of the scarcity of work, the people had no means of purchasing it. He always agreed with the Noble Lord, that unless the land lords did their duty, they would be under the necessity of esta blishing a poor-law system in that country, which would give to the poor an absolute title to relief.—( Hear, hear.) But he thought that the Noble Lord had not properly stated the senti ments of the Rev. Mr. Hughes, who was an intimate friend of his own, and who had supported him throughout the whole of his political career, when he said that the repeal of the corn laws would make all 1ri. , 11 landlords repealers. He (Mr. Browne) believed that Mr. Hughes would hail the removal of the corn-laws as one of the first boons that could be offered; and he quite disagreed with the Noble Lord, when he asserted that this Government measure for the repeal of the corn-laws would prove disadvantageous to Ireland. He would, with the permission of the House, illustrate the view he took of this subject by a reference to matters of history. In the reign of Charles 11. the Irish people memorialised the Government of this country, through the then Lord-Lieute,ant (he believed Lord Ormond) that the imposition of a tax on Irish food, imported into England, would inflict utter ruin upon Ireland, because they would not then be able to keep up their standing army. The tax was, however, imposed, and the Irish were consequently obliged to direct their energies into other channels. The result was, that the coun try increased in prosperity from the establishment of the linen and other manufacture s to such a degree, that an after petition prayed that a tax might be imposed upon every article of ex port.—(Laughter.) He for one would express hi s gratitude to the Noble Lord for the conciliatory tone in which he had re ferred to the policy to he pursued with respect to Ireland. It was always pleasing to hear his country spoken well of, and the Noble Lord had shown his appreciation of their sufferings, by not only sanctioning the importation of corn duty free, but by expressing also his readiness to go to the public treasury for a fund to meet the distresses of the country. But he wished to call the attention of the House to a motion which had imme diate reference to the district with which he was more immedi ately connected. He referred to a communication e. hich had taken place between Mr. Kennedy, chief secretary of the Relief Board in Dublin, and the Rev. Sir. Moore, an estimable Protestant clergyman of Cong, in Mayo. Sir. Moore lived in his immediate neighbJurhood. He (Mr. D. Browne) was a Roman Catholic, and Mr. Moore, as he had stated, was a Protestant clergyman, yet they lived on the most friendly terms, and he was therefore enabled to speak to that gentleman's usefulness in the district. Mr. Moore apprehended that famine would assail their neighbour hood, and with the most praiseworthy intentions (because the unfortunates whom he intended to benefit were all Roman Catholics) went to Dublin, and obtained an interview with the chief secretary. The Rev. Mr. Moore stated that a con siderable time elapsed before Mr. Kennedy would deign to notice that he was present; he seemed too busily engaged in giving directions to his clerks and the printers • and when at last he did se e M r . M oore, and when that gentleman told him that there were great apprehensions of! amine in his district, the secretary very coolly referred him to the poor-house of Balinrobe, because theret . one could he or they obtain relief. He (Mr. D. Browne) was a guardian in the union of Balinrobe, and he could inform the House that one-fiftieth of the inhabitants of the district in which Mr. Moore resided could not get relief there. Mr. Moore then addressed a letter to Lord Lincoln, but the Noble Lord himself did not deign to reply to it. He, however, sent an answer through Mr. Penefeather (a most unintelligible answer), stating that the relief afforded would be regulated by the man ner in which the landlords would perform their duties. What! was relief to be tested by the scale of a landlord's moral obli gation ? If Mr. Penefeather had told Mr. Moore that relief was to be given commensurately with the amount of the land lord's subscription, that would be intelligible enough, however unsatisfactory it might have been to Mr. Moore, who was sur rounded by pro?erty belonging to absentees. His Reverend Friend afterwards wrote to the Lord-Lieutenant, stating that they did not ask a boon from Government, all they wanted being a cargo of Indian corn to regulate the prices in the market. It was ten days before he received a reply to his communication, and that a most unsatisfactory cne, because it merely referred him back to Mr. Kennedy. (The Hon. berbe tween here read the corre s pondence which had taken place the parties.) What was the deduction to be drawn ? That however beneficially inclined her Majesty's Government might be towards Ireland, her people might be allowed to starve until they had first ascertained what were the intentions of the land lords. The people might, however, die while this relief body in Dublin were deliberating as to the propriety of giving re lief. Why, the people in Ireland had been waiting for upwards of a century in expectation of getting justice from their land lords; but the people were at their mercy, and they got no justice. The landlords in England recognised the principle that labour had its rights as well as its duties ; but in Ireland the landlords recognised no such principle. The Hon. Mem ber concluded by impressing on the Government the duty of coming forward immediately to alleviate the distress in Ireland. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD coincided in the opinion of Hon. Members who had spoken before him, that the time had come when a tax should be levied on the land and landlords for the support of the poor in Ireland. Her Majesty's Govern ment had taken on themselves the responsibility of providing for the poer in that country, and he trusted that by some mea sure of this kind they would redeem that pledge. He (Mr. S. Crawford) would g i ve th e res id ent l andlord a fair draw back from this tax. There was another part of the subject to which he would refer shortly. He was sorry to hear the Hon. Member for Limerick describe the repeal of the corn-laws as solely an English question. H e (Mr. S. Crawford) thought it was more important as an Irish question ; and h e h a d no doubt, if the duty on corn were abolished, ve r y cons id era b le benefits would accrue to the Irish people. If they were to be taxed for the support of the poor, it furnished the greater reason why they should have cheap food in th e country. He did nut blame Irish Members be. cause tbey gave a legitimate oposition to what was called the Irish Coercion Bill. But he did hope that they would limit the discussion to what was really necessary on the subject. Ile was, therefore, most anxious that the Bill for th e total and entire aboliti on o f t h e corn-laws should be proceeded "l because of a ll o th er t h ings that were necessary for the good and pro s p er it y o f I re l and, during the present crisis, cheap ness of food was t h e most needed; and he, therefore, hoped that some a rrangement might b e ma d e, w h ere b y the measure could be proceeded with without any further delay.—( Cheers. ) Mr. O'CONNELL was sure that it would be admitted that he did not at all question the good intentions of the Govern ment towards Ireland, wen llmy pro,emNi e;r meas4!-o f the reli e f o f the people during their present misfortune s .— or ( Hear, hear.) He would be ashamed of himself if he doubted the goodness of their intentions in proposing that measure, but he had to complain (and he was happy to know that that cent plaint had been joined in by several other Hon. Members) o the inoperativeness of the parties employed by the Govern ment.—( Hear, hear.) There were sadly too many diploma and references from one party to the other. There was tedi ousneas everywhere, and activity nowhere, amongst the gentle men deputed to administer relief to the people during their ;resent distress. Let the Government appoint men of energy and activity. The men that had been appointed were ignorant of the localities to which they had been sent, and they mani fested entire ignorance of the proper mode of relieving the wants of the people in such a crisis as at present prevailed in Ireland. He thought that the House would agree aerial him, when he said that the Government should expend more money than they proposed to do for this purpose.—(Hear, hear.) He was ashamed to ask for more money for his impoverished fellow-countrymen. He was was not there as a mendicant asking for further grants for Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Let the Government advance their money without fear ; there was no doubt that they would, as they bad previously done, take care that they had ample security for its repayment. Let them tax the landlords.— ( Hear, hear.) Let them insert into their next Loan Bill such provisions as they had inserted in the Coercion 13i11 for the taxation of the landed proprietors.-- ( Hear, hear.) Let them transfer to the people the protection which they proposed to give to the landlords. But whilst they taxed the landlords, let them observe the rules of equity and justice. For iartance, they should tax but lightly such a landlord as the Hon. Member for Northamptonshire, who, it appeared, had done his duty to his tenants in Ireland.—(Heare hear.) But let them tax heavily such landlords as failed to perform such duties as they owed to their tenants. It might be said that those were unconstitutional doctrines; but the people were starving—they were actually dying, while the Members of that House were .canvassing constitutional doctrines.— (Hear, hear.) They were perishing by hundreds whilst they were discussing the best mode of relieving them. Did they not hear read from the returns, which they them selves had placed upon the table of the House, that this family had hut one meal a day, and another family had not tasted bread for 48 hours, and if they waited till the next 48 hours were elapsed they would find them in their graves ? The Government had professed an anxiety to relieve the fearful calamities of Ireland ; let them then come forward frankly ; he was sure that the House would not shrink from giving teeir support in any measure which would effectually alleviate their distress.—( Hear, hear.) But let there be no longer any laziness or delay. It it were true that, the Government was not able to meet the challenge which he had already made, tor the effect that not one single shilling had as yet been laid out by the officers of the Government for the relief of the people of Ireland, why did they not bestir themselves, whilst that people, according to their own reports, were famishing ? Let there be no eilatoriness, no unnecessary delay at the Castle f Dublin.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the measure that had been proposed by the Government for the relief of the people, it was quite true that he had thrown out opinions con trary to what he now offered, but when the people were starv ing it was no time to discuss private opinions. Let the Go vernment at once tax the landlords of Ireland for the support of the starving tenants ; let them make that experiment, and when they did, let them do it boldly. Let them drop their Coercion 13111. Let them bring forward a Coercion Bill for the landlords of Ireland, by which they would be coerced to do their duty to their oppressed tenants. Let them introduce some measure which would compel the landlords to perform their bounden duties towards the poor around them.—( Hear, hear. And whilst he spoke of landlords, he did not mean to include all the landlords of Ireland. Many of the landlords were good men, but there was at the same time, an abundance of clearance and " destroying" landlords in Ireland.—( Hear, hear. ) It would be seen at once that he had still :.7is strong objections to the plan of ont-door relief for the alleviation of the distress in Ire land ; but, under the present circumstances, he was anxious for the introduction of any measure that would bring food to the people, and he was, therefore, sorry that' his Hen. Friend, the Member for Limerick ( Mr. Smith O'Brien) was opposed to the total repeal of the corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) His (Mr. O'Connell's) own conviction was, that nothing but repeal would do the people of Ireland any good.— ( Cheers.) The existence of the present corn-laws had clearly done them no good.—( Cheers.) The existence of that mea sure had been concomitant with misery —with increasing misery : it was concomitant with destitution ; and, therefore, any man that could suppose that Ireland was benefited by the continuance of the corn-laws must draw very largely on his imagination.— ( Hear, hear.) It was quite plain that the corn laws had not enhanced manufacturing industry in Ireland, nor the number of her manufactures.—( Hear, hear.) What did they want for Ireland ? Wages. Agriculture would not give ahem wages, nor I ad the corn-laws given them wages. —( Cheers.) They had said that the corn slaws had been introduced for the good of Ireland; but of all other cosine tries in Europe, that country had been the least benefited by such a measure.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped, therefore, that they would at once, and for Heaven's sake, set about the passing of the Bill for the abolition of the corn-laws and postpone their Coercion Bill.—(Cheers and laughter.) Mr. P. SCROPE was anxious to make a few observations with respect to a portion of the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn (Lord George Bentinck ), because he was very much struck with its inconsistency. That Noble Lood had spoken of the enormous exportations of corn and other provi sions that were rent from Ireland to this country, and he had said that if they abolished the corn-laws, they would ruin 500,000 families who lived by the cultivation of the soil in that country. Now really it appeared to him (Mr. Scrope) that the only effect that would follow the abolition of those laws, would be that the Irish people (supposing the Noble Lord's argument to be true) would have the 10,000,0001. worth of provi sions which they annually sent to this country to consume themselves ; all their batter, their corn, their cheese, their po tatoes, their poultry, and other provisions, would be kept for the support of themselves. That was the only result which to his mind at least would follow from the passing of the corn laws. He could not admit that the whole of the time which had been occupied on the Coercion Bill had been thrown away. He thought that that debate had had the effect of showing such Hon. Members as were ignorant of the state of Ireland, the great necessity of passing some measure for the substantial remedy of the miseries under which the people of Ireland laboured. It showed in his opinion the necessity of procuring for the people of Ireland substantial employment, such as had been enjoyed by the people of England for centuries. He did not think that the Government need entertain any dread about the introduction of any measure which would compel the landlords of Ireland to support the poor around them. Let them fearlessly proceed with their measure for the abolition of the corn-laws. They surely did not want to starve the people of Ireland—they could not, in fact, de so, because the people would be fed in some way or other. The hungry millions would not suffer themselves to be starved to death ; and he therefore maintained that the Government must feed the people of Ireland, by whatever means they might accomplish that object. Now, if that pro position were conceded to him, the next step was this—How were the peopled fed at present ? Why they were fed in the most wasteful, extravagant, profligate, and foolish manner that any people could be ft d ; they were fed by a misguided system of almsgiving. The mendicant travelled through the country and found his way to everybody's cottage; he attended at every door and begged from al the inhabitants. It was ad mitted that a mendicant's life was the ver worst way of obtaining a livelihood and that the present system of almsgiving in Ireland, was one which de moralised the character of the people, as had been proved by the Reverend Dr. Doyle, whose name was venerated throughout Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) That Right Rev. Gen tleman had proved that it supported a set of the most profligate and abandoned characters, and that the poorer classes became in consequence greatly demoralised. A pauper would, as it appears, send out his wife and children to beg whilst he him self remained at home doing nothing but trifling his time away in gossip and smoking his pipe. And laying aside the demo ralistne tendency of the present system of mendicancy in Ire land, let us look at it in a pecuniary point of view. It neces sarily caused a profligate waste of money ; besides, able-bodied men were kept in the character of idle paupers, who might be otherwise employed in furthering the interests of Ireland. Their reports proved that there were thousands of that cha racter at present in Ireland. Now, he wished to ask whether it would not be preferable to have all the money that was given in the shape of eleemosynary relief in Ireland, collected by proper parties, fur the purpose of distributing it to worthy characters? And whilst they did so let them collect money for the relief of the poor—from the willing as well as the unwilling ; let them compel all who were able to support the poor of that country.—( Hear, hear.) Let them thus introduce a methodical and economical relief of the wants of the po,'r. Let them collect taxes for the support of the poor from absentees as well as those who resided on their property in Ireland. Le: them bring out the recourses of Ireland and compel the landowners to do their duty to their tenants ; let them introduce some o ompulsory measure, which eventually would remove the evils of Leeland in a great measure. Let them not leave the relief of the poor to the discretion of the landlords of Ireland, foe he thought that they must have clearly found that thee' were wrong in an ticipating the voluntary co-opperation of those gentle men in their efforts to relieve the wants of the people of Ireland during their present distress.—(g od ,:. hear.) It was quite clear from the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet that the Government had relied very much on th e co . operation of the landlords of Ireland, and it was quite clear also that t:2e3 . ' had failed to afford the anticipated cooperation to a very great . extent.—( Hear, hear.) He certainly regretted most deeply that they had been mistaken in that anticipation; the expe rience of past years might have prepared them for such a failure. The Government were responsible for the present im perfect system of relief of the poor in Ireland, and in a great measure for the present distress in that country. The distress that t a t- C. P 3 ,. re W en as t there not notin I a faminereland w in a s n Ire o l a t nothing i n n e l w B2 i 3 n , t hlaBt277u andn -1842 ? and not many years ago subscriptions to the amount of several hundred thousand pounds had been raised in England fur the support of the people ; and after all it had been proved that that very money had gone i n t o th e pockets of o f an Irish the i d lords. He happened to have a copy evi d enceof_tahveenjish) which was tendered gentleman (the Hon. Frederi ck C that o sum no of which a L et into the pockets of the Irish landl or d s, in the shape of ordDeir boenfor was e the the M h em ea b d e , rs which o f th provede Commissi on h m a is t si ts.—( Hear. hear.) He did hope that this discussion would dint terminate witheut some substantial measure for the relief of the calamities of Ireland being proposed. He did think that the time was come now when sorr.e measure should be adopted by the Legislature, for the purpose of compelling the land lords to do their duties to those that surrounded them.— ( Hear, hear.) He slid not mean to say anything against the landlords of Ireland individually; he knew that several of them were worthy characters, like the Hon. Member manner.w h i n e ed h a t h d _e s f el i o n k er e a n rp, einhnpelaet r h .n e )n c t o hT u eh r i s re e ye s o dt a f i dt e t h ts h i i s eni d r e au b vt a me t e roy . 3 t pf T roar h i s e ts ehyieemn sup port h n e y.. - port of the destitute population of the neighbourhood of their iiron bestates. It was, h owever, necessary that the landlords should e compelled to do their duty, for there were clearly hundreds who w ou ld not, if left to contribute a voluntary tax, attend in the least to the state of the peer. If some such measure were introduced, he felt "confident that the people would be made more industrious and useful members of society, and peaceable subjects of her Majesty.—( Hear.) Mr. COBDEN—We have rather lost sight of this question —( Hear, hear)—and I merely wish to say a few words upon that pint. This is rather irregular; an unexpected debate has arisen from a question put by the Hon. Member for Lime rick. The question is this—Whether the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, and the party connected with him, will be willing to vote for the suspension of the corn-law for three 'Booths ; but this suspension is to be applicable only to Ireland. Now, we have another proposition before us—not the suspen sion of the corn-law, but the abolition of the corn-law.— ( Hear, hear.) Then I presume, therefore, that this proposi tion of the Hon. Member for Limerick is, that instead of the abolition of the corn-law for England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, we are to substitute a three months' suspension of the corn -law for Ireland alone. I beg, in the first place, to tell the Hon. Member for Limerick that there are other parties besides himself and the Noble Lord, and the 240 who sat be hind him, to l o his proposition.—( Cheers.) There are the peo ple of England—l do not mean the country party, but the party living in the towns, and who govern this coun try.—( Ironical cheers from the protectionists.) The English people, the Scotch people, the Welsh, and, I believe, the Irish too, from what I have since heard, are determined not to be deterred by the suspension of the corn-law—(Cheers from the Ministers and free-traders)—bnt to have the aboli tion of the corn-laws.—(Continued cheering.) Now, I think this matter has been determined out of this House long ago. —( Tron' , l! cheers from the prot”ctienfsts.) .1 7 .1 T .. r ,,iolett !f:i . ,;, ails tia..v . ,,r. a i.“., e;k:CCI-Iii:! cut, it,. .OL:gt; be I.ia,:t! a matter of compact.—(Cheers.) It i s disposed of and settled out of doors ; and though you are rejoicing at the delay which you have occasioned, that delay only shows in the minds of the