The Sun. — London, England, 1837-04-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 14. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, Lord BROUGHAM, and the Mar quis of CHOLMONDELEY sat to-day to hear Scotch Appeals. THE INCORPORATION OF TAILORS V. COUTTS. The facts of the case, as well as we have been able to collect them from the great mass of papers and the statements of the Learned Counsel, appear to be these. Many years back the Incorporation of Tailors of Aberdeen being the proprietors of the lands of Crabeston in that city, resolved to let them for the purpose of the improvement of that town for the erection of buildings. Upon coming to that determination the Incorporation drew up certain regulations as to the style of the buildings and the different erections to be made, which every person who rented the -land was to be bound to carry into effect. In 1823 part of the property was let to a person of the name of Nicol, a builder, and a charter was granted by the Incorporated Tailors which gave that individual the pos session of the land. That charter was drawn up by a Mr. Allan, who, together with the respondent, were the joint clerks and assessors of the Incorporation, and it was cor rected and settled by the respondent. That charter, it was alleged by the appellants, did not contain many of the regulations required of the Incorporation ; and it was further asserted that they bad been purposely omitted by the respondent, he having at the time he drew it up contempla ted the purchase of the property himself. Nicol entered into possession of the land and built upon it, but before those buildings were completed he became a bankrupt, and the re spondent purchased the property from his trustees. Proceed ings were then taken in the Courts of Scotland for the purpose of compelling the respondent to perform the stipula tions required by the Incorporation of Tailors, al though they were not mentioned in the grant. On the case coming before the Court of Session, it was de cided that the respondent was only bound to perform the con ditions contained in the grant, and that the clauses which it was said had been purposely omitted were not effectual for the purposes for which they were intended. From this decision the present appeal was brought. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL concluded to-day the opening which he commenced yesterday on behalf of the appellants, and Dr. LUSHINGTON followed on the same side. Mr. STUART addressed their Lordships on behalf of the respondent, and had not concluded when their Lordships ad journedduringpleasure._ - 'The further bearing of the case was postponed to Thursday next. In the absence of the LORD CHANCELLOR, Lord SHAFTES BURY took his seat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock. Several private Bills on the table were advanced a stage. Lord BE XLE Y presented several petitions in favour of Church-rates. Lord KING presented a petition from a parish in Surrey praying for amendments in the new Poor-law Act. Lord POLTIMO RE presented petitions from East Put ney, and from parishes in Devonshire, against Church-rates. Earl BROWN L O W presented petitions in favour of Church rates from places in Lincoln, Lancashire, and Warwick. Lord K ENYON presented similar petitions from North amptonshire. The Preston Railway Bill was then read a first time. The LORD CHANCELLOR then took his seat on the Woolsack. The Duke of BliC CL E LTG H presented a petition from a parish in Northamptonshire in favour of Church-rates. The Bishop of HERE FORD presented similar petitions from parishes in Hereford. The Duke of WELLINGTON presented similar petitions frm the Clergy of the Deanery of Dereham, and from Broadnall. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Messengers from the House of Commons brought up the Licensed Victualiers' Assurance Company Bill. The Bishop of ROCHESTER presented petitions in favour of Church-rates from West Bromwich, Gravesend, and from the Clergy of the Diocese of Rochester. The Duke of NORFOLK presented petitions agains' Church-rates from Horsham, from the Baptist congregatioi of the same place. and from parishes in Yorkshire. The Bishop of CARLISLE presented petitions in favour of Church-rates from Sevenacre, and from places in Cumber land. MUTINY BILL. On the motion of Lord SHAFTESBURY, the Mutiny Bill, and the Marines Regulation Bill, were read a second time. —To be committed on Mo . nday. C BURG RA - TE S. Lord BROUGHAM presented petitions in favour of the abolition of Church-rates from Coventry, signed by 1,056 per sons, amongst whom were 11 magistrates ; another from Lin coln, signeciby the mayor and inhabitants ; a l to f rom Huntngdon, Whitehaven, Uxbridge, Shrewsbury, from the Lord Provost rulci inhabitants of Perth, and from Kinross. The Nobly Lord then observed that he was he believed not the only Member of their Lordships' House who was awkwardly si tuated in consequence of applications made to him from cor porate towns, in order to have clauses inserted in the Nlunici. pal Act Amendment Bill, which hed many salutary alterations amongst its provisions. The applications to which he alluded occurred in consequence of the parties not having suggested them in time to be considered in the other House; but several of these clauses he considered were money clauses, over which they had no control ; he would, homever, move that they be printed, and then it could be considered if they were money clauses or not. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that it was one thing to make a proposition, and another to have it supported ; he, however, had no objection to the proposition. Lord ABINGER then said that he hoped to hear from his Noble Friend (Lord Lyndhurst) on Monday, and to fix Fri day next for the second reading of the Bill. Lord HOLLAND p resente d petitions in favour of the abo lition of Church Rates, from places in Cheshire, Hants, Abe restwyth, and Bethnal Green. Lord HA DDINGTON said that a Noble Lord had moved for a return of the number of petitions presented for and against the Irish Municipal Bill. Now, with the permission of their Lordships, he would move for a return of the number of petitions presented in favour of new Corpo rations in Ireland, distinguished from those which—in praying for this—extended its prayer to other objects. The Bishop of LL AND A FF presented petitions in favour or Church-rates from the inhabitants of the county of Glamor gan; from Merthyr, Mawr, St. Asaph, and several places in Glamorgan and Warwickshire; also from the clergy of the Archdeacoriries of Wilts. Lord BROUGHAM then presented a petition from a place in Glamorganshire, which was signed by 95 out of 150 rate payers resident there. The Bishop of LL A NDA FP stated that the meeting from which the petition he presented frons Glamorganshire was very fully and respectably attended, and that the most enthu siastic feeling prevailed there. Lord WITARNCLIFFE presented petitiiins in favour of Church -rates, from places in Yorkshire ; and one from Not tingham, which was signed by 600 ladies, and he felt great pleasure in being selected to present it. JURIES (SCOTLAND) BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the second reading of this Bill, and sa id t h at t h e purpose was to assimilate the' law of Scotland to that of this country. Lord MANSFIELD doubted whether the Bill was ne cessary, or whether it was one of which their Lordships should approve. It would be a great advantage to the people of Scotland if their decisions were revised as in Eng land ; for he believed that impartiality was not the in variable characteristic of the Juries of Scotland. He hoped their Lordships, therefore, would not give their sanction to the Bill without considering well what its probable results would be. Lord BROUGHAM supported the Bill. He contended that there would be no interference with the jurisdiction of that Rouse ; it merely revised the judgments of the Courts below, and rendered more explicit some clauses in a previous Act. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. AFFIDAVITS (SCOTLAND AND IRELAND) BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the second read ing of this bill, the object of which was to give the Lord Chancellor in Ireland, and a person to be appointed for that purpose in Scotland, the power of taking affidavits, and thereby diminish the trouble and expense incurred in many cases by requiring the attendance of persons residing in these countries. He did not anticipate any opposition to the Bill. After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM in favour of the measure, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Cornwall in favour of the Ministerial Church-rate Bill. The House then adjourned to Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, ATRIL 14. The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour. Mr. MOSTYN presented petitions from Denby and Flint in favour of the Chester and Crewe Railway. On the motion of Mr. STEWART, the Waterford County Rate Bill was read a second time, and ordered to b© com mitted. Sir 0. :MOSLEY presented a petition from Chester in favour of the Chester Junction Bill. Mr. SC HOLE FIELD moved the second reading of the Fishguard Harbour Bill, and presented petitions in favour of the same. Mr. JOHN JERVIS brought up the report of the Com mittee on the Chester and Crewe Railway Bill. On the motion of Sir G. STRICKLAND the Barnsley Waterworks Bill was read a second time. The Hon. Baronet :also presented a petition from the Earl Cadogan against cer lain parts of the Leeds Waterworks Bill. Mr. TURNER presented a petition from George Turner and Thomas Greenwood against the Holme Reservoir Bill. Mr. FITZSINION presented a petition from the trustees of certain turnpike-roads against the Dublin and Drogheda Railway Bill. Mr. WA K LEY presented a petition from an individual re siding at Islington, complaining of some mis-statements that had been made by parties before the Deptford and Dover Committee. Mr. LISTER presented a petition from Bradford, against the Poor-law Amendment Act ; and also a petition from the vit ae place, in favour of the abolition ..)f Church-rates. Mr. G. LANGTON presented a similar petition from S. •mereet. ; lir J. BECKETT presented several petitions against the ahol,*tion of Church -rates. Mr_ MAUNSELL presented a similar petition from the Dean and Chapter of Peterborough. \fr. MAUNSELL also presented 15 other petitions against the ab olition of Church-rates. Mr. L A WSON presented five petitions from places in the West i tiding of Yorkshire, to the same effect. Also, a peti tion ag, rintit the Poor Law Amendment Act. Sir 0. MOSLEY presented petitions from Stafford against the abolition of Church-rates. Mr. GREENE presented a petition from Whittington, in Lancashire, against the Ministerial plan. Mr. BAINES presented four petitions from places in York shire in favour of the Ministerial plan. Mr. DIVETT presented a similar petition from Exeter, signed by 2,000 persons ; also, another petition to the same effect, and from the same place, signed by 265 rate-payers. Petitions against the Ministerial measure for the abolition of Church-rates were presented by Mr. Miles, Mr. Palmer, Mr. C. Pelham, and other Hon. Members ; and by Mr. Potter, Mr. Handley, Colonel Parry, and others in favour of the measure. SUPERANNUATION PENSIONS. Mr. TOOKE presented a petition from Benjamin Hill, thirty years tax-collector of St. Pancras, complaining of the small sum allotted to him as a Superannuation Pension. Mr. BAINES presented a petition from Leeds, praying for a repeal of the duty on Wool. Mr. HANDLEY presented a petition praying that the Shipping Gazette might be sent by mail postage free. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a petition from Island Magee, and Grange of Nalteen, county Antrim, pray ing for the total extinction of Tithes and Regium Donurn, and all compulsory assessments for the purposes of religion ; from Derryloran, county Tyrone, praying for the total extinction of Tithes ; and from Magheracoolmoney, county Ferma nagh, praying for total extinction of Tithes and ministers money ; also from M. and A. Rievan, extensive corn merchants and millers of Dundalk, praying that the millers of Great Bri tain and Ireland may be permitted to grind flour from foreign wheat for exportation, in the same way as sugar refiners are permitted to manufacture foreign sugar for countries abroad. Mr. BROCKLE UR ST presented petitions from Mac clesfield, in favour of the abolition of Church-rates. It was most numerously signed. Sir E. CODRINGTON presented a petition from Ports mouth, praying that millers might be allowed to grind corn under restrictions fur exportation. Mr. W. PATTEN presented a petition from Lancashire against the Church-rate Bill. Mr. WILSON presented two petitions, praying that no alteration may be made in the Poor Laws Bill. BELFAST HARBOUR BILL. Mr. KIRK presented a petition from the merchants, ship owners, and traders of Carrickfergus, in favour of the 13111 which adopts an open channel in Belfast Harbour. The Hos. MEMBER moved that the Committee on the An trim, Coleraine, Belfast, and Lisburn Roads Bills have the usual power to send fur persons, papers, and records.— Agreed to. Mr. WILK S presented petitions from Hardstown, in Norfolk, from Kingsland and Mile-end, in favour of the Ministerial plan for the abolition of Church-rates. Lord G. SOMERSET presented twenty petitions from different parts of Wales against the abolition of Church-rates. Mr. SHAW and Lord LO WTHER presented petitions to a similar effect. TWOPENNY-POST CARRIERS. Captain I'OLIIILL presented a petition from the two penny-post carriers of the metropolis, soliciting the attention of the House to the painful situation in which they were placed, in consequence of the inadequate remuneration they received, when compared with the arduous and fatiguing duties they had to perform, and the responsibility they incurred. The Hon. and Gallant Member was proceeding to state the grounds upon which the petitioners made their appeal to the House, when he %vas interrupted by The SPEAKER, who suggested that the proper course for him to pursue would be to bring up the petition, and give notice of a specific motion upon the subject of it. Captain POLHILL then gave notice that he would, on Tuesday next, move the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the prayer of the petition. CHURCH-RATES. Mr. HODG ES presented petitions from Kent, in favour of the Ministerial plan for the abolition of Church-rates. Sir S. WHALLEY presented a petition to the same effect from the vestry of Marylehone. HOUSEHOLD SUFFRAGE. Mr. V. SMIIII ',resented a petition from 500 inhabitants of Southampton, praying for Household Suffrage. EDUCATION (IRELAND.) Sir R. BATESON presented a petition from the Bishop and Clergy of the diocese of Derry arid Raphoe, against tee national system of education in Ireland; and praying that all creeds, catechisms, and forms of prayer be done away with, except the Lord's Prayer; also a petition from the Bishop and ninety-eight clergymen of the diocese of Down and Connor, to the same effect. The Honourable Baronet then presented a petition from Mr. Ellice, who had been for upwards of 30 years clerk to a Court of Conscience in the city of Londonderry, praying, that in the event of the Irish Municipal Bill being passed, some compensation wou.d be awarded him. BIRMINGHAM AND DERBY RAILWAY. Mr. CH ET WYND moved that the order for the second reading of the Birmingham and Derby Railway be discharged, and the Bill be referred back to the Standing Order Com mittee. Sir E. WILMOT said the Gallant Member was labouring under a mistake. The present Bill was merely for the pur pose of remedying a clerical error, which had crept into the Bill when being engrossed last year. Mr. S. LEFEV RE said, as he was Chairman of the Com mittee before whom the Bill would be sent if the motion were agreel to, be hoped the House would permit him to state that the Bill being for the mere purpose of remedying a cleri cal error, there was no Standing Order which applied to it. The motion was negatived without a division. Oa the motion of Mr. WILBRAHAM the Clarence Railway Bill. was read a third time and passed. SOUTH UNION RAILWAY. Sir R. PEEL presented a petition from Tamworth in favour of the South Union Railway. CHURCH-RATES. Mr. PE ASE presented a petition from Bishop Walton, most nusnerouely signed, praying for the abolition of Church rates. Mr. E. J. STANLEY presented two petitions from places in Chester, in favour of the Ministerial plan for the abolition of Church rates. POST-OFFICE REFORMS. Mr. LABOUCHERE had on a former occasion postponed the Committee oe the Post-office Bills, for the purpose of making some alterations in the form in which they had been drawn up. These alterations having been made, he hoped the House would now allow him to go into Committee pro forma, in order that the Bills might be printed in their amended shape. The House then went into Committee on the Post-office Management Bill; the Post-office Acts' Repeal Bill, the Post-office Offences Bill, and the Franking Bill. The Bills were severally ordered to be printed in their amended form, and recommitted that day week. Sir R. BATE SON seeing the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland, in his place, wished to ask him a question relative to Mr. Gore Jones, who some time since was Stipendiary Ma gistrate of Derry, but who, in consequence of being convicted in the penalty ofsoo/. for illegal imprisonment, was dismissed from that office. He wished to know from the Noble Lord whether he had been re-appointed to the office of Magistrate in any part of Ireland, and where. Lord MORPETH said that he had been appointed a ma gistrate in another county, but he could not at the present moment state what county that was. THE VIXEN. Mr. MACLEAN wished to ask the Noble Lord the Secre tary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether the negociations with respect to the Viren had come to an end; and if not, when they were likely to do so. 7.,,,;L0rd PALMERSTON said that he had no official infor mation on the subject. Mr. LABOUCHERE presented a petition in favour of the Ministerial plan for the abolition of Church-rates, signed by 800 inhabitants of Taunton. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Mr. E. J. STANLEY, a new writ was issued for Lewes, in the room of Mr. T. R. Kemp, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose, and said, that before he moved the Order of the Day for the further consideration of the Canada question, he wished to state the course he meant to pursue with respect to the business of the House. With respect to a Bill of very great importance alluded to the other night, namely, a Bill for the establishment of Poor Laws in Ireland, it had been his wish to have brought on the second reading of that Bill before Easter ; but he was then told by various parties, and among others, parti cularly by the Hon. and Learned Member for Bandon (Mr. Sergeant Jackson), that it would not be convenient to Irish Members that the Bill should be read a se cond time before Easter. With a view to their convenience, and not at all for the convenience of the Government, he had fixed the second reading of that Bill for the earliest day he could, and that day was Monday, the 17th of April. The Right Honourable Baronet opposite (Sir Henry Hardinge) had since given notice of a motion for Monday next relative to the affairs of Spain. He did not with at all to have that motion postponed, but only to state, that the postponement which had hitherto taken place, and the postponement which would take place, of the Irish Poor-law Bill, was not in consequence of any desire of his to postpone the discussion of that question.—( Hear.) He would therefore postpone that Bill to the next earliest day on which he could bring it forward, namely, the Friday following. It was his intention to move the Order of the Day for a Com mittee of Supply on Monday, and that the Ordnance esti mates be referred to that Committee, and then the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite would very properly arise according to the ancient practice of that House. Sir H. HARDINGE was not aware when he made his proposition that the notice for the Irish Poor Law Bill stood for the 17th, nor had it been intimated to him by the Noble Lord. As, however, he, as well as the Noble Lord, was impressed with the importance of the subject, he should bring it forward on that day. Sir R. PEEL—The Church-rates Bill stands at present for Friday, and that, I suppose, will be postponed ? Lord J. RUSSELL—Yes. Mr. WALLACE had a notice on the paper regarding a matter of very great importance to Scotland, and although the Lord Advocate had done his best to get the Scotch business forward, he found that the affairs of that country were put to the wall. He did not wish to interpose his motion be tween the business of that evening, but unless an assurance was given him that an early day would be fixed for bringing it forward, he should certainly feel it his duty to persevere in his motion. If a Committee was appointed he would be satis fied ; but, at all events, he hoped the Noble Lord would give him an assurance that the Scotch business would be brought on on Friday next. Lord J. RUSSE LL was most anxious that the Scotch business should come on, but he would rather defer till Monday any assurance that the Scotch Bills would be brought forward on Friday, as he would then have ascer tained what the business of that evening was likely to be. Sir R. PEEL believed the time was fast approaching when the House, by a general movement of all parties, would make some great improvement in the manner of conducting the pub lic business. Discussions had proceeded to such a length, and they had got into a habit of adjourned debates, which was quite unprecedented.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was easy for an Honourable Member to bring on his Bill, but it was not so easy to force the House to come to a satisfactory conclusion on it.—(Laughter.) It would give much satis faction to the country if all parties were to unite, and settle what was the most important business ; they would then select two or three Bills which were most important and pressing, and perfect them before proceeding with any other. Such a course would be much more satisfactory to all concerned than the present manner in which the business was done. Mr. ROEBUCK said if the leading Members of the parties in that House were to make their speeches before 10 o'clock it would be felt to have a beneficial effect. At present the House was nearly emptied from soon after five o'clock till that hour, as it was well understood that no great gun would go off be fore 10 o'clock.—( Laughter.) If it were understood that all the artillery of a debate would be discharged somewhat before that hour, the House would not be so deserted, or its time so much wasted.—(Continued laughter.) Sir ROBERT PEEL was quite sure that all those who were expected to take up a subject, after every argument had been exhausted, would heartily join in the suggestion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. It was a most harassing duty for any one to get up after a three nights' debate, and reply to the vat ious arguments which had been put forward. AFFAIRS OF CANADA. Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the House resolve itself into a Committee on the resolutions relating to Canada. Mr. WALLACE would not interpose with his motion, in the hope that the Scotch business would be brought on and disposed of. Mr. BERNAL then took the Chair, and Mr. ROEBUCK said, that he had a proposition to lay be fore the Committee, which he desired to draw to their atten tion before the debate became •xarm, and the ordinary aspe rity resulting from that warmth took place. He had to pro pose a plan for the pacification of the Canadas, and he trusted the House would give him its attention while he stated what that plan was. If the present opportunity were suffered to pass, he believed it would be the last that that House would have to adjust the affairs of Canada. If the House allowed the Resolutions to proceed, it was his firm conviction that all hopes of reconciliation had gone for ever. In pro posing the present plan, he; did so in the discharge of what he considered a most solemn duty. It must be evident to every one who knew anything of Colonial policy, that a time must arrive—when it would arrive he would not say—but arrive it must—when the Colonies would be separated from Great Britain ; and he was desirous to so rule the Colonies that they would always look to the mother country with kindness, and not for one moment think of re_ quiring assistance from other powers. ( Hear.) What he had to do was to propose, if possible, a plan which should adjust the dispute arising between the mother country and the colonies, in which it must be ad mitted there existed peculiar differences. He had to propose a plan so extensive that it w ould satisfy the demands of the Canadian people, and at the same time not offend the pecu liar prejudices of the English. He had to steer betwee n those two alternatives.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") What he wished to prevent was the people of Canada flying to the people of America. He wished to prevent their assuming the standard of revolt against the English, and appealing to the people of America for support. He wished to put an end to the democratic feeling that existed in America.—( Hear. ) The Governments of this country had not endeavoured to con ciliate the democratic feeling of Canada, but had yielded to the aristocratic feeling of Europe. The plan he would lay before the House, which he had great difficulty in stating, it being a matter of detail, and very little attention being paid to such matters by the House, referred to the following psrth ulars—first, to the Legislative Council ; secondly, to the Executive Council ; and thirdly to what had already been hinted at in the resolutions of His Ma jesties' Ministers—namely, a General Assembly. So far the alterations which were proposed affected the Constitution not merely of Lower Canada, but of Upper Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward's Island. He should also include in his p:an the finances of Lower Canada, the Land Tenure Act, the Land Company, and that which was also hinted at in the resolutions of his Majesty's Ministers, an alteration in the boundaries of Lower Canada.—( Hear. ) He wished to make the Legislative Council responsible to themselves. There had been a great talk that the Legis lative Counsel ought to be made independent—that was a great mistake. It should be responsible to somebody—not indepen dent. What he wanted was to see if he could fashion a plan to make it responsible immediately to the people of Canada—to make it responsible directly to the Governor-- indirectly to the people of Canada. Hu first proposed to abo lish the 'Legislative Council. Every person who had spoken of that Council had condemned it. In the year 1828 a Com mittee of that House had condemned it.—( Hear, hear.) The resolution passed by that House the other night had condemned it, and the Commissioners appointed by his his Majesty's Government had condemned it —[The Hon. Member here read an extract from the report of the Com missioners to that effect and proceeded]. Was he not then at liberty to say that it had been condemned by all parties ? Something, then, must be done to render that Council ac ceptable to the people.—( Hear, hear.) Why should the people of Canada be required to retain a body of persons who were at present irresponsible ? What he proposed was to create an Executive Council to be called the Governors in Council, and to be composed of Attorney and Solicitor- Generals and ten Councillors, to be chosen by the Go vernor. They should have the power, wl.en a Bill was passed by the House of Assembly ; to revise that measure and suggest amendments, and then send it back to the House of Assembly ; but they were to have no power of rejection. The Bill was to be afterwards sent to the Governor himself, who might either give or withhold his assent. The reason he ( Mr. Roebuck) desired that was, that he wished as much as possible to con centrate the responsibility on the Governor—to get some known established person to whom he could point and say, " That is the man who has done this."—( Hear, hear.) In the long run both the Governor and the Imperial Govern ment must yield here, and compromise there, for the purpose of ruling according to the will of the House of Assembly, in the same manner as the Ministry in this country must govern according to the will of that House.—( Hear, hear.) According to his plan, the Council would be directly responsible to the Governor and indirectly to the House of Assembly: He did not want to have a Council like the pre sent one, which was responsible to no one. It was said, and might be said again, that, in the present temper of the people of this country, it was impossible for them to abolish the Le gislative Council at present. He would ask, why not ? The Commissioners had reported that the existence of the Council was not at all necessary fur the happiness of the people of Lower Canada, neither was his plan a startling new Constitution. He proposed such a Constitution as existed in every colony of Great Britain, except Lower Canada. His plan was identical with the Constitutions which at present existed in New Brunswick, Jamaica, and many other of the colonies. Was it possible that the friends of the House of Lords in this country could for a mo ment suppose that there was any analogy between the House of Lords and the Legislative Council of Lower Canada—( Hear, hear)—that there could be any analogy between an ancient nobility, intimately connected with the wealth and prosperity of the country, and a clique who were possessed of neither property, station, or wealth in the country ? If they believed there was any analogy between the two bodies, and that it were true, did they suppose he would be there moving the abolition of the Legislative Council of Lower Canada ? No.—( Hear.) He would be then moving the abolition of the House of Lords in this country.—( Hear, hear.) It required a very strong feeling and judgment to get rid in a man's mind of those immediate associations which he had gathered in his cradle.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There were millions of associations that endeared some men's minds to the House of Lords ; but that was not the case with respect to the Legislative Council of Canada, which was composed of a clique of hungry officials, and who had the hatred of the people of Canada. He proposed there fore, the abolition of the Legislative Council, and that the Governor in Council should perform their functions.--. ( Hear, hear.) When he had done this, had he done all that was required ? By no means, there was much yet behind, and he had a thorny path to tread. One of the great feats that had been performed with respect to Canada was the administration of justice. In an evil hour the Government of this country had demanded a perma nent Civil List to pay the Judges.--(Hear, hear.) That was not called for by any conduct on the part of the people of Canada or their representatives. It was a most remarkable fact, and he begged to !press it on the attention of his Majesty's Ministers, that the permanent salary of the Judges was the first thing that caused the dispute, which ended in the separa tion of the thirteen provinces. It was said that the Judges were responsible to nobody—that there was not a sufficient power of control over them---that they behaved ill, and that t large number of them did not possess the confidence of the country ; therefore it was that the House of Assembly had said they would never grant a permanent salary: to the Judges until they had means of trying them for any offences that they might commit. His peat object was to have a General Assembly over all the Canadas. What he therefore proposed was, that the House of Assembly of each Province should each choose five delegates, and that they should constitute a General Assembly.—( Hear, hear.) Then came the question what their functions were to be. He proposed that they should be two-fold, first, Judicial, arid secondly, Legislative. The first would give them the power of impeaching the Judges.—( Hear.) He should propose also that this body should choose one Judge, who should sit as a Court of Appeal ; performing the functions which were at present performed by the Privy Council of England. It. would be difficult to describe accu rately the precise extent of these judicial powers, and the manner in which they were to be exercised. A law of peachment would be required, together with a code of pro cedure. But no difficulties of any moment would here obstruct the path of the legislator. If this tribunal were created for the trial of the delinquent Judges, no difficulty would arise in granting them a salary for a term of years. This tribunal could decide upon all questions of provincial difference, such as those relating to rivers, canals, and the Post-office depart ment. This might be said to be a chi:nera ; but all the diffi culties attendant upon it had been overcome in the United States. He would now take occasion to remark that the lan guage so prevalent when Hon. Gentlemen spoke of the dis putes now existing between Upper and Lower Canada led to very erroneous conceptions. People fancied that the two pro c:rl= wcro quarrelling. with each other, and that Lower Canada was endeavouring to impose upon the Upper province. This was by no means the case. It could only be for mis chievous purposes that certain persons talked of disputes, and endeavoured to create ill will where none now existed. He could, however, easily understand that causes of differ ences might arise between Upper and Lower Canada which could only be settled by such a tribunal as he proposed. The Noble Lord was fond at times of indulging in homely, nay (he must pardon him for the saying), even in vulgar illustra tions. These sometimes added significance to a sentence which a more polished phrase would not have conveyed. In the pre sent instance the Noble Lord accomplished this feat with a very sinister dexterity. " You," said he, addressing the Mi nisters of the Crown, " you show your teeth, but dare not bite." What would the Canadian people conclude from this? Why, that the Noble Lord, having shown his teeth, would use them on the first favourable opportunity, and indulge his snar ling disposition by snapping at and worrying the Canadian people. He might soon have the opportunity afforded to him. The Canadians knew this, and they therefore would naturally accord to the Noble Lord's address a greater weight than it deserved from any intrinsic merit of its own. But that which he now aimed at was to persuade the Noble Lord to " sprinkle cool patience upon the heat of his distemper ;" to lay aside, on so critical an occasion as the present, the personal vanities of debate, and approach the question before them in a spirit of calm deliberation, of conciliation, and of kindness. He had done but too much mischief already by the unhappy petulance of his uncontrolled temper. Let him even at this hour endea vour to repair the evil. Turning from the Noble Lord to his Majesty's Ministers, he would at their hands endeavour to ob tain a deliberate consideration for the project which he had laid before them. Their strength, if they had any, laid in the belief that some men had of their being the apostles of ge nerous and liberal principles of government. Deprive their supporters of this belief, let the people of England and the world at large think that that was a mere delusion, and the fabric of their present greatness crumbled at once? Did not the Noble Lord who proposed the resolutions plainly per ceive that he was a tool in the hands of others ? Let him be known in one hemisphere and in the other as the asserter of liberal principles of Government—not as the lover of freedom in Europe, but a district in America. Before the House decided upon this momentous question, he would entreat them to contemplate for a moment with him some of the con sequences that might result from their determinations. In the plan that he had presumed to lay before them, he had endea voured to provide for the future as well as the present. The time must come when the whole of their American possessions should become independent States ; and there were peculiar combinations that might occur when that happened ; one fraught with danger to England, aye, to Europe ; the other carrying with it protection to the world at large. If any cir cumstances should lead the English colonies of America to join themselves with the United States, and thus confer upon that already powerful people an unbroken line of coast from the Gulf of Mexico to the North Pole ; and also a territory stretch ing from the Pacific to the Atlantic Ocean—if such an event should happen, a very few years would be required to make that American Republic as formidable to all the nations of the earth as was ancient Rome in her days of greatness. Let them, then, not so anger and thwart these Colonies, while under their dominion, as to make them turn to the United States for sympathy and support : but let them teach them to act toge ther, to look also to them for kindness and assistance ; so that when the time of separation did occur, they still be close friends, aiding each other, and protecting and reciprocally for warding the interests of both nations. Let the House, then. hesitate ere they refuse the means now offered to them of establishing peace and content in the long-disturbed and ill governed colony of Canada. The question being put, Lord STANLEY and Lord J. RUSSELL rose, but the latter gave way, when Lord Stanley said that he thought per haps his Noble Friend would excuse him if he ventured then to address the House, particularly as the lion. Member who had just sat down had directed some of his observations to him in a very pointed manner. He could assure, however, that lion. Member, that whatever might be the uncontrollable temper upon which he had been complimented by him as pos sessing, it was never less likely to be disturbed than on the present occasion. It was not his intention at present to enter into the general question with respect to Canada. His wish was only to explain, and by that explanation to save dos, time of the House, and have the debate unfettered by any thin;; like misrepresentation. Some inju s tic e , h e rea dily a d m itt e d, had been inadvertently done by him to the House of Assembly, and also to that House, by the statement he had made. He did not wish to explain any thing that he had said with respect to the effects of the policy that had been, and in his opinion ought to be, maintained by the Mother country towards the Colonies. With respect to that lie entertained precisely the same opinions as formerly. But with respect to the House of Assembly he might have expressed himself stronger than upon a further investigation of the papers could be fairly borne out. lie had stated on the former occasion alluded to that at the time his Noble Friend, Lord Goderich, brought forward his proposition lie did it under a specific pledge from the House of Assembly that they would pass any ineaeure that the Gouernment of this country should require. In the Spring —he believed in February, 1831, he wished to state this clearly and satisfactorily to the House, and to the Hon. Member for 13eth, so that they might see the difference between his present and his former statement—a Bill was brought forward under the superintendence of his Noble Friend the Colonial Secre tary ( Lord Ripon), and his Noble Friend (Lord tiowick) the Under Colonial Secretary. In bringing forward this measure his Noble Friend ( Lord Howick) on the 18th of February, 1831, used the following language :—" I am willing to admit that these persons (the Judges and the Governor) should not be dependent for their salary upon an annual vote of the As sembly. The Assembly have recognised that principle, and therefore his Majesty's Government think they are perfectly justified in relying upon the good feelisig of that Assembly for a proper provision for conducting the civil government of the colony. In that confidence we shall leave the whole of the revenues at the disposal of the House of Assembly." He must observe, in passing, that this Bill excepted the casual and territorial revenues arising from the sale of waste lands. He would now read the expressions of the Hon. Member for Mid dlesex on the same occasion, and on the same subject. They were as follows :—" It is well known that the Canadian peo ple were determined never to give up that point on which they conceived their whole liberty to rest. They, however, have been in advance of us ; and have come to resolutions which will be found in the very report which has been alluded to. They have offered to provide for the Civil List, on condition that you give them that command of their revenues which you are now about to do. I quite agree with the Noble Lord that it is better to trust to the liberal feelings of the Canadians than to assert your authority with vigour." It was due to the Hon. Member for Middlesex to say, that he did not at that time mix up the subjects relative to Canada as he had since done. " The present measure," continued the Hon. Member, " will remove one great cause of dissatisfaction ; but I am convinced, from communications I have had from both the Canadas, that they will not be satisfied till they have the election of both the Councils." But the two questions have been kept altogether apart, and a Bill was introduced in 1831 previously to the dis solution which followed on the discussion of the Reform Bill, and after the dissolution, in the September of 1831, the same Bill was brought forward which the Hon. Member for Middle sex asked if it were the same, and was passed through both Houses with little observation, until it came to the third reading in the House of Lords. The Lower Assembly re jected that measure, and the Upper Assembly received it. Now Hon. Gentlemen would be able to perceive how far he had formerly made a mis-statement, and how far he was borne out. In opposition to the sentiments of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, he would refer to resolutions of the House of As sembly of Lower Canada, who, it would appear, were at that time satisfied with the resolutions of 1828. They were as follow : " That, under no circumstances, and upon no consideration whatsoever, ought this House to abandon or in any way com promise its inherent and constitutional right as a branch of the provincial Parliament, representing his Majesty's subjects in this colony, to superintend and controul the receipt and ex penditure of the whole public revenue arising within this pro vince." " That on the permanent settlement before men tioned being effected, with the consent of this House, it will be expedient to render the Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, or persons administering the government for the time being, and the Judges and Executive Councillors, independent of the annual vote of the House, to the extent of their present sa laries." Now, in the account transmitted to this country, these resolutions were studiously excluded. Lord Aylmer, in his despatch to Lord Ripon, after this had occurred, an nounced that the House of Assembly had abandoned those two resolutions, altering the Constitution of the Legislative Council. Lord Aylmer in that communication to Lord Ripon, said that the Civil List was not rejected, but postponed for the present, and that it was intended to withhold it while cer tain particular grievances remained unredressed. The cha racter and Constitution of the Legislative Council was not one of the grievances named. [The Noble Lord then read an extract from the speech of Lord Aylmer in the House of Lords, on September 6, 1831, explanatory of the misunder standing that had taken place, and declaratory of the inten tion of the Government to include Lower Canada in the pro visions of the Bill which he (Lord Stanley) had previously alluded to.l He wished to state what he had done, and that only. So far from there having been a breach of faith with the House of Assembly, that House had itself got rid of the obligation. His mind was not altered the slightest in its po litical bearing with respect to the case, but any alteration was grounded on the bearings given to the question by the con duct of the people of Lower Canada. Lord J. RUSSELL said that, in the view which the Go vernment took of the matter it did not appear to them desi rable, as long as any chance remained of an amicable ar rangement, that they should come to the serious and sorrowful conclusion, that the Act of 1791, which gave a Constitution to the Canadas, could not be executed, and that they should, consequently, either he obliged to yield to the demands of the [louse of Assembly of Lower Canada—demands, he would say, quite inconsistent with the relation of a colony to a mo ther country, or to put an end at once to the system of Repre sentative Government there, and suspend the Constitution of 1791, by abrogating the Act under which it was granted. These were the two courses pointed out as adequate only to the occasion. If by the Resolutions the House of Commons was called on to make a decided and definite disposition of the question, it was in a position, Ist., that the demands of the Assembly were such that they could not be conceded consis tently with the relation of a colony to the mother country ; and, 2dly, it was not in a position to propose carrying on the Government of the Colony without the intervention of the House of Assembly. Neither of these courses were the Government prepared to take, because, in a matter of that serious kind, it should be considered that those with whom they were at issue were the Representatives of the people of Canada, declared to be such by his Majesty's Com missioners to that colony, and contending with them as such, the Government were not willing, so long as they could avoid it, to come to a final and decisive breach witl t th e Peuse nl Assembly, and surrender ultogether their hopes of carrying on the colonial government of that country on the general prin ciples laid down in the Act of 1791. But he (Lord John Rus sell) was mistaken if the proposition which the Noble Lord op posite seemed so inclined to favour, and which was the same he supported when in office, that if the local Government found the House of Assembly would not assent to its proposals, the Crown should be enabled to continue it for any indefinite period it chose without their consent. The Act of the Ist and 2d of Wm. IV., commonly called Lord Ripon's Act, contained excellent reasons why the Act of 1791 should not be suspended, or any power derived from it by the House of As sembly: abrogated. That Act was one not so much at issue with the propositions before the House as with the allegations of the Noble Lord. A large question was before the House —a great matter was at stake, but this country, in its conten tion with Canada, was contending with a Power very minor to it indeed. It was not therefore a subject to make a quarrel out of between both, one way or other; or that there were jus tifiable grounds to say to the House of Assembly, " As you have not fulfilled your promises and kept your part with us, we shall now impose on you, whether you will or no, such or such a pe nalty." That would be a course he should not recommend to the House to adopt ; for it was one, in his opinion, more likely than any other he knew of to exasperate. The Act alluded to by the Noble Lord, the Act of the Ist and 2,1 of the King, was undoubtedly founded on the expectation by Lord Gode rich that a Civil List would be granted subsequently to its passing by the colony of Lower Canada ; but then it should be also said that there was nothing of that nature specifically stated in its provisions. It stated broadly, and without any exception, that, for the future, certain funds, heretofore ad ministered by the representatives of the Crown, should be appropriated by the representatives of the people in the Assemblies of the province ; but there was not a word of a Civil List to be thenceforward substituted in their stead. He (Lord John Russell) believed, indeed he knew, that the advice of Sir James Kempt to Lord Gode rich at the time was, that the conditions by which a civil list might be secured should be made with the House of As sembly before the passing of the Act ; but Lord Goderich rejected that advice, and the Parliament and Legislature agreed with him in giving the controul of these funds to the Canadians, unconditionally. What stood now on the statute book of this country in relation to it was a free and uncon ditional acknowledgment of the power of the House of As sembly of that colony to dispose of the revenues in question as they thought most conducive for its good government. To suspend, therefore, or repeal an Act of that nature now, on such grounds as implied want of faith on the part of the Ca nadian people, was a proceeding more likely than any other, in his opinion, to produce ill-feeling between the colony and the mother country. Believing that nothing should be done, which could be avoided, to hurt the feeaegs of the people in that colony, he (Lord John Russell) as the organ of the Go vernment, had put the case on these broad general grounds, and kept entirely aloof from anything which could touch per sonal feelings. The Hon. Member for Bath had stated with the utmost ability the case for the House of Assembly, and explained his own views on the subject. But he (Lord J. Russell) felt bound to apply to the Hon. Member's statements the reflection that, although the Legislature should accede to the Hon. Member's proposition, as on the part of the House of Assembly, that body might still deny the power of the Hon. Member to make conditions for them. After so long a discussion in the Assembly of Lower Canada he (Lord J. Russell) was of opinion that it would neither be prudent, dig nified, nor safe of the British Parliament to accept the repre sentation of the Hon. Gentlemon as the distinct representa tion of the conditions by which that body would be content to abide.—(Hear, hear.) Commissioners had been sent by his Majesty from this country to Canada, as ascertain the grounds of dispute on the spot, and to suggest a remedy for the grievances they might discover ; yet the House of Assembly of Lower Canada spoke of them from the first moment of their arrival to the last time of their meeting as wholly unauthorised persons, strangers, who had no right and no legal power to interfere in the affairs of the province. He (Lord J. Russell) should read to the House the %fords they made use of in their address ; and they would be per ceived at once to be anything but decorous to the dignity of the mother country, the power of the British Parliament, and the honour of the British Crown.—[The Noble Lord then read several passages to the effect that " the province was pestered by certain recently constituted authorities," " stran gers to the country, whose vague and subordinate mission could not be acknowledged by the Constitution of the Canadas." If that was the manner in which the Assembly of Lower Canada spoke of the King's Commission, and after their peremptory refusal to make them acquainted with their views, were the Lords and Commons of England to be called on to believe that the Honourable Gentleman was authorised to re present the wishes and wants of the complainants ? Ably and skilfully as the Hon. Gentleman had stated his propositions, he (Lord J. Russell) could not avoid the conviction that if the resolutions of the Government were to be altered and varied to meet the principle he laid down, the House of Assembly might turn round and say to them, " We told you that you should look to us alone—the Assembly of Lower Canada—and we, therefore, repudiate and disavow every word which the Hon. Member for Bath, or any other Hon. Member of your House, has uttered as for us. We call on you now, as we did before, for an elective Legislative Council, to be removable at the will of the representatives of that people, and to nothing else will we consent." Such might, and such, in all probability, would, be the answer of the House of Assembly if Parliament thought fit to adopt the pro position of the Hon. Gentleman. It seemed to him that the best manner of proceeding would be for the House to agree to the resolutions which lie had proposed, because they did not look merely to supplying the immediate wants of the Judges and other official persons in the colony, as the Hon. Member for Bath would fain have made the House believe, but went straight on to embrace those points on which the House of As sembly had taken issue with the local Government. They de clared decidedly the opinions of the House of Commons of Great Britain on these points ; and, he trusted, would also de clare those of the Legislature at large. The Hon. Gentle man had said that if their demands were denied the House of Assembly, or rather the people, of Lower Canada might raise the standard of revolt against Great Britain, and place them selves under the protection of the United States of America. Now his ( Lord J. Russell's) conviction was, that they knew too well what was their own interest to think for a moment of such a proceeding. Besides that, in his (Lord J. Russell's) opinion the United States would not at all be anxious to pro voke a quarrel with Great Britain upce such unprofitable as well as untenable grounds. His further opinion was, that, if those resolutions were carried, the House of Assembly would soon see fit to consider the advantage they derived from living under such a free Government as that of this country, with such light taxes as were imposed on them, while they enjoyed the disposal of all their own revenues for local purposes ; and seeing in this consideration how little of real practical griev ance they had to complain of, they would be induced before long to abandon their propositions, or otherwise to state their wants and wishes in a manner with which the country could agree. With respect to one of the points on which the Hon. Gentleman had touched—that the Legislative Council of Lower Canada had not altogether answered the object of its creation—he (Lord J. Russell) was quite of the same opinion with him.—( Hear, hear.) But, to show the cause why it had not done so, it was sufficient to refer to that part of the Con stitution of the colony which created it. By that reference the animus with which it was framed would be at one per- ceived. The part he alluded to, was that by which his Ma jesty was empowered to grant titles of honour and hereditary seats in the Legislative Council of the Canadas. At the pe riod that Constitution was granted the opinion of Parliament ran as much in favour of aristocracy as an omnipotent instru ment of national Government as those of many Hon. Members on his side of the House ran on the opposite to it. That was the pervading feature of the time ; and it was not to be won dered at all that it formed part of the Act which conferred a Constitution on Canada. He (Lord J. Russell) did not think that there were any persons in the province so distinguished as to entitle himself on the voice of the people to a scat in the Legislative Council. It was not on the fitness of the Leeds lative Council that the objection to it was founded. The Pro position made by the House of Assembly was, that the Legis• lative Council should be elective ; and it added that " the opposition which they gave would not be put an end to until the Constitution should be so altered and amended as to meet it." The contrary was certainly the opinion of his Ma jesty's Government—they would not accede to that demand.— (Hear, hear.) With respect, however, to the suggestion of the Honourable Gentleman, that in place of making it entirely independent, the Legislative Council should be more closely connected with the Crown, he (Lord J. Russell) thought it worthy of the utmost consideration.— (Hear.) It would be well worthy of observation to see in how far the Constitution of Lower Canada was superior to those of the other colonies in North America and the West Indies, or whether superior at all. The Canada Committee of 1828 took the same view as the Hon. Member, that the Legislative Council should be made independent also. He (Lord J. Russell) had always doubted the wisdom of that re solution, because he was not at all convinced of the advantage of having au independent Council where the Members were not more properly qualified or pointed out beyond their fellow citizens by any superior merit or distinction. The Hon. Member had spoken of the Judges of the colony. He (Lord J. Russell) should read presently the proposition which he intended to submit to the House on that subject, but be fore doing so, he should refer to the conduct of ;the House of Assembly to those official persons. The Crown of England declared its willingness that the Judges should in the future hold their offices during good be haviour, and not during its pleasure, as they had been pre viously held. The House of Assembly accepted that boon, but what did it do besides ? By appending a resolution of their own to the resolution declaratory of the intentions of the Crown, they voted their salaries year by year, instead of making them a permanent charge on the revenue of the country. From the spirit which actuated the Assembly on that occasion it was not difficult to foresee the present result. Now the Judges were independent only of the Crown ; they were dependent year after year on the Assembly so long as their salaries should be voted by that body. The proposition which he proposed making to the House on the subject of the Judges' salaries was connected with the question of the joint Committee also proposed by him ; and,he would take leave to read to the House the various matters which that Committee would embrace. The joint Committee was to consist of 24 members, and their duty was to be—(The Noble Lord then went on to read the duties of the joint Committee ; but he (IA so in such an inaudible voice that we could only catch the purport of a few. The general duty cf the Committee was to originate laws ; but the particular portions of that duty were—the import and exports of the province, the control of the Court of Appropriation, the creation of a Court for the trial of impeachment ; and others, twelve in number in all.) The last of these were the subject of some observations by the Hon. Member. He (Lord John Russell) would next pro- coed to the ether Feint c:,the Ho , l G..;ntleman !lap spoken, namely, the land revenues of the colony. The Hon. Gentleman, in treating that subject, had laid down certain propositions relative to the revenues of the King of England which he (Lord John Russell) did not expect to hear advanced by such an ard. t lover of liberty as he professed to be. He had said that the land revenues of tha Crown were the private pro perty of the Sovereign, arid as such could be disposed of or alienated the same as any other private property. Such was not the doctrine of the Constitution of the country. If it were James 11. would have as legally held them after his abdication as he did before it ; and Parliament could not settle them on his successor William without doing injtutice to private property. These revenues were not the property of the King but of the Crown ; to the Crown they alone belonged. The Crown was unable to provide sufficiently for the services of the household, the army and the navy ; and thence arose the arrangement by which these revenues were relinquished to the State during the lifetime of the Sovereign, in lieu of a civil list which it was bound by the compact to supply him with. The revenues of Canada, and the other provinces held as land revenues, were the same; and it was a pretension never before put forward that the Assembly should say the Act of 1791 deprived the Crown of them, and took away all controul over their distri bution. He ( Lord J. Russell) could never assent to that doctrine ; and he believed that all the lawyers of Great Bri tain would be found on his side in the view he had taken of it. But he did not think, after all, that, as a matter of prac tical grievance, there would be found any great difference between the House of Assembly and the Government appro priation of these revenues by the King.—( Hear, hear.) The House of Assembly desired the management of the land revenues. That, they said, was a matter of public concern, and one in which they ought to possess a proper controul over the receipts and disbursements. Now, with respect to this matter, lie did not think, other differences being arranged, that any dispute would exist between them and his Majesty's Go vernment.—( Hear, hear.) It was, he believed, the intention of the Earl of Ripon, and also the Earl of Aberdeen, and Lord Glenelg had since stated it as his opinion, that all the colo nial revenues should be subjected to the general controul of the House of Assembly, provided they would consent to agree to a certain Civil List, to be submitted to them for settlement. While he said this there was one noint respecting which it was right no misunderstanding should exist between the Hon. Member for Bath and himself. When he said that a Civil List should be settled by the House of Assembly he meant that the House of Assembly should agree to a Civil List, to continue until the demise of the King, or for a term of years, and that at the expiration of such settlement the casual and territorial revenues should again revert back to the Crown. This proposition had been met by some parties in this way : They expressed their readiness to settle a Civil List for ten years, provided the interest of the Crown in the casual and territorial revenues of the Colonies was then to cease. Now that was not his understanding with respect to the pro posed arrangement for settling a Civil List. His under standing was, and he thought it would be the honourable and sate understanding, that if at the period fixed for its expiration a new Civil List was not agreed to, the casual and territorial revenues should, as a matter of course, revert hack to the Crown.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Upon this point the different Governments in this country had long been agreed. In fact, the Colonial Secretaries who had held office during the last five or six years entertained no dif ference of opinion whatever on the subject. That was a point on which the) were all willing to concede largely, but upou the understanding and conformably to the terms which he had stated. He thought that upon these various points, and as regarded the statement between the Hon. Gentleman and him self, there did not seem to be any very wide difference of opi. nion ; but, even if these questions were settled, the terms pro posed being finally adopted, and that difficulties not applicable to the general opinion should arise, he would arrive at the same result. He was most anxious for the final, speedy, and satis factory settlement of the matters in difference; but he was at the same time not at all disposed to delay or abandon the present resolutions.—( Hear.) He did not wish on the other hand, to ado: any course which would have the effect of keeping the Government of Lower Canada and the House of' Assembly in a state of perpetual hostility for the next twenty or thirty years. He had stated one argument with respect to the repeal of Lord Ripon's Act, and he should now refer to the last despatch of Lord Gosford. In this dispatch Lord Gosford stated that the duties under the Imperial Act 14 George 111., c. 88, amounted in 1835 to 47,6021., and in 1836 to only 28,4321., leaving a deficiency of 19,1701. in the latter as compared with the former year. For this falling off Lord Gosford accounted by stating that—" The principal decrease last year, as your Lordship will observe, occurs under the head of importations from the West Indies, upon which the diminution is 43.4721. This arises chiefly from the quantity of spirits distilled in the two Canadas, which, being mixed with West India rum in the proportion of about one-third of the latter, is now generally consumed by the inhabitants, in. stead of the genuine rum hitherto used. From the great cheapness of the home manufacture, which is untaxed, it is to be expected that the importation of spirits from the West Indies will continue annually to decrease until it reaches the minimum quantity required to flavour the produce of the native distilleries." That was a statement which solely re garded the finances of the colony ; but let them contemplate its influence in a political point of view, if the contest were to continue. Already had the consumption of an article pay ing duty diminished one-half; and might not the House of Assembly say, " We will not oppose you by arms or revolu tion, but as far as abstinence or non-consumption goes we will oppose you, and prevent you from carrying on the Government ?"_( Hear, hear.) This was an impolitic and degrading way for a country like this to carry on a contest, and, therefore, for the sake of their own reputa tion they ought not to adopt measures which might oblige them to say, " We feel it necessary to carry on the Go vernment of the colonies totally independent of the House of Assembly." It might happen that when the House of Assem bly received the determination of the Parliament of the mother country they would not be averse to a compromise, and it might also happen that they would insist upon their original demand, and refuse to support the Government. If, however, they should take the latter course, the consequence would be, that they would put an end to the Constitutional Act by which the Canadas were governed. He saw, if they took that course, no blame could be imputed to them, if they, being driven to it, endeavoured to carry on the Government by other means than by that Act ; but until he was thoroughly con vinced on the subject he should use every possible means to avert the evil, by stating why he could not concur in the de mand made upon them. He still, however, hoped that some accommodation would ultimately be effected. With respect to the present, the 4th Resolution, it referred to a demand which it was impossible to grant. This demand was, that the Executive Council should be a responsible body, like the House of Assembly, and removable, as Ministers in this coml.- , try were removable, when they lost the confidence of the people. Now, it would be impossible to comply with such a demand, or place a local Government on the same footing as the Imperial Government. The Governor, it should be re collected, acted under the orders of the King, and therefore it would be absurd to say that the Council, who were his re sponsible advisers, should be chosen only under the directions of the House of Assembly. In proposing these resolutions, he was not going further than he deemed necessary to pre serve the connection between the colonies and the mother country.—( Hear, hear.) Lord STANLEY wished to put a question to the Noble Lord, which he thought it important to have answered before they proceeded further. These resolutions, it would be ob served, involved a great variety of questions, and what he wished to know was, whether any and what steps were to be taken, either by the introduction and passing of Bills or other wise, for carrying them into effect ? The Noble Lord had said nothing as to the course to be adopted in case the resolutions were not fu::Aed. It was clear that no measure could be adopted on the fifth resolution, which said, "that, while it is expedient to improve the composition of the Executive Council in Lower Canada, it is unadvisable to submit it to the respon sibility demanded by the House of Assembly of that province." But still, if it were the Noble Lord's intention to follow up the other resolutions by Bills, he for one would not object to give them a general acquiescence. If, however, no Bills were to be introduced, he must decline to pledge himself in any way to those resolutions, because, if no Bills were to be brought in, they would be nothing more than so much waste paper. Mr. ROEBUCK observed that the Noble Lord who now declined to pledge himself had acted upon a very different principle when lie brought his resolutions concerning Canada forward. Lord STANLEY said that he merely followed the recom mendations of the Committee of 1828, and distinctly declared that the composition of the Council of Lower Canada required no enactment but that of the Executive. Mr. ROEBUCK was understood to deny that the Noble Lord had adopted the recommendations of the Committee of 1828. Lord J. RUSSELL said, in reply to the question which had been put to him by the Noble Lord, that it was his inten tion to bring in Bills on all the subjects embraced in the reso lutions requiring an Act of Parliament, but that it was not then necessary to notice the parts which would not require that course to be taken. It was intended that the Judges should be excluded from sitting in the Legislative Council. Mr. WARD regretted that he was unable to concur in the conclusions at which the Noble Lord had arrived. He differed from the view taken by his Hon. Friend the Member for Bath with respect to the waste lands, because he entertained this opinion, that those lands did rightfully belong to the Crown. —( Hear, hear.) He admitted that, by the Charter of 1791* the Canadians claimed the lands which they had won from the forest or desert, but he must say that they could have no claim whatever to land which was as yet unoccupied. The HOn• Gentleman claimed those lands for the Canadians, but he ( Mr. Ward) claimed them for the Parliament of Great Britain.—( Hear, hear.) He now came to the resolutions, and although they had been considered separately he looked upon . them as constituti ng one w h o l e system for the Government Ut the Canadas. To that system he objected, because he regar ded it as a direct violation of the Constitution given to them in 1791—as an abrogation of that Constitution, and he conten ded that they had no right whatever to adopt any such c ourse• The eighth resolution r e m ove d th e on l y c h ec k w hi c h the Ca nadians had upon th e E xecu ti ve , t h a t o f stopp i ng t h e s upplies; and as they had no other it was only fair that they should have this. The question was, were the Canadian people to have a responsible Government or not? They were more interested in that question, than those who lived on this side of the At"' ]antic, and for his part he could see nothing at all inconsisten t in local responsibility. By the course they were pursuing they would only exasperate the House of Assembly, and yet they ie must, it was evident, d e pend u po n th a t b o d y f or carrying the resolutions into e ff ec t. Wh a t secur ity cou ld t h ey h a ve that they s would nut, three years hence, be called on a s arbitrarily as now now ? He hoped th e G overnmen t wou ld pause a little in orde r to see whether some t erms m i g ht nu t b e propose d to adjust the differences differences satisfactorily. Th e y c ou ld a ff or d t o treat, as there 0. were no petty national consid era ti ons t o preven t it. He ha d THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, APRIL 15, 1837.