The Sun. — London, England, 1812-05-22 00:00:00

. , Right Hen. Fiend world'saythat .the offer was In opinion made to him but with a wish and hope t hat han.ght be accepted: He was- persuaded that e ' Right H n. Friend would acknritivjedge that it w as made eetli pet feta sincerity. Had his -Right "on. Friend become. one of the confidential advisers • barn the 'Crown, i t ‘. vou ld n ave b een unnecessary f or lii rn Co bring forward in that House the motion of wli;ch he had not ice, because . I,e'woeld have had the power to call the attention of: the servants .the Crown themselves t 9 the subject: • did 110 t say , that his Might Hon. Friend had aated err°. 1 ,, ! °%1y declining the otlef• wl.ich was made-to but certainly, his only objection to the ac "ePtance of it, the very circumstance of his becom ing a' Minister of the Crown would have bee) a .tifficient reason for his bringing for Ward the gees etton in the shape to which he bad just alluded. He understood, howevet, that his Right Hon. Friend 3tPerienced other difficulties in acceding to the O t opositioa which had been made to him. He un tlerstood that t.is Right Hon. Friend thought the Catholic Question ought to be taken up by Govern ment without delay. That opinion would unques. bor°.)l ee..., yform•a bar to union ; but how far his Right Friend went on this poiet he knew not. All • e could distinctly state was, that the proposition W „,' B nlai!e to hie Right Hon. - Friend with the ut ,:%l sincerity o f heart ; th a t those w h o ma d e i t auxtons to-have -the accession of his abilities; 2 . 1 that they felt great • regret at finding that wish ttpoioted.- He did not profess to find any fault 17 his' Right Honourable and Learned Friend ' 1 -the subject, but he repeated that the circuit). t t ince w as one , w hi c h occa sioned great regret. He b a d in his possession a document which had be en seen by his 'Right Honourable 'Friend, ‘l(iiprellending• the feelings of Administration on t his. subjed. With reSpeet to the character of the i t' ulnitliseeetion that was about to be formed; the 2'use 'oc ee ht -to recolledt, that his Noble Friend i;"" Was at the head-of it .(Zhe Earl or Liverpool) 4 : 1 ten or eleven years ago, b een declared'by•Mr. Pitt to be an individual at least equal to any of the U n Gentlemen opposite, in talents, in - integrrty, p rk nh characterWitti the single exception of 'Mr. t ° x• Had - his. Noble Friend-done any thing since vi 'it peri o d t o f or f e i t tha t cha ra tt er ? But it there Iv e te no other objection to the present'motion, he e 'uld ask his. Holt. Friend on what principle he 11 '"Id reconcile his wish to see the Gentlemen -Op tl.usite in power, with his former Parliamentary opt t,ll°"` ? He . had no desire' to say tning persOnally e usive, but lei the House consider the principles ei l resen by those Gentleman ; and the conduce sari, they had persued. Let them consider the 11,, r '"us questions which) had been discussed in Par idgell'"upropriety t, and then reflect on' the of VP'ing a measure, the tendency of whico was to n g poAer the men, whose opinions on those iQuestions the sense of Parliament had determined so i t( P i e j 4 tedl to be erroneous. Had ht: no other 0b e,.." to the motion, that with him would be sut lent- and if he were not much nrstaken, ,the Wore, unless they were disposed to abandofi every t 4p c `Ple which they had hitherto maintained, and t e huTtish those onjects which they had hitherto a tt " e' l'!er ec t essential to the security and glory of k.countly, would not hesitate to refusing to accede Iti l s ! r • CAN NtsG declared, th-'t it had not been his Or int e n t ion to address toe-House on the pre toesteerision ; not because he lad the presumption tel l l 3 Pos e that the mot ion had any reference to him ttn, that on a motion for an A 'dress to the Re renio.e the present Adoiinistration, be was toy to say any thing wuich might be imputed tit o ` fi d;bithial ; that he was earnestly soh vit.`" e ll to dismiss trout his mind. • But, the way in 1 0 , he hid been appealed to by his' Right Ho tbike'rable Flient rendered it, nett sslr y for him to e ttt r „"vithirut nleatiing any unkuldne.s, or reproof, t're,"'"it say that he his Right Honourable da t ' , ad called upon him tee her untliirly- . What tte i k'ss•ei vcrhall) in the tete transactions was by nt reduced to wri:lng. To that mi. l 'e C 4 g) reterred—not technically, 'N.,. I Y, leuii the, Honourable Member tor Yolk tiati `hutted take , tke unworthy advant ge of th e fi g Out )rne . ut had no cogniz ace of That was' certainly true ; but 4 tiq lt, Ri, hi• Hortoui'atiiie Friend reterred to th e Ile e t ity of - c,,t• IC doer for Yorkshire on that head, d ot. old h Ve a eeti web it in his own practice he had ktliveontradieled that outliority. His Complaint Vell(i'st his Ri ght H on. Friend as, that he' had tra- V a ,, () tit of the r e c o rd: d t a d, which, act:omit% to V:ecuent of all p.-rties, was to ee constde , ed as t e . :• He ix as sorry tot this, because to some o f ri t ,l ci t 'tions put to him by his Right Honourable 41, Zhe could not reply, without (and he protest... tl _, l ng was-further hom tits intention), iipptar `ll oth uefending his Own conduct to impute blame t lt :1 1.8 His Might Honourable Friend had asked' s,„ eee t i , had -I b e ler - if he accepted office, he would c it i l)iej o , s at liberty to act in the Cabinet upon nis own ~Nwtuectn a certain great question . ? Undeubiedly-he I , el , "at be should have been so at Ilberty. He had 4\clteitill.earit to sa y th a t it b e h a d j oin ed the prcsalt t alt int'lratiore---4 he had accepted the proposition to th 1- I•use against his own pi inciple.s,under ti ers of th e N o bl e L or d, b e wou ld not h ate het, git nled to a solitary speech and vote in the Ca it ' eee tt did not say that there were not honour. e ra h ds th at wou ld not b e satisfied with such an g liB 001_ erbeut • It was his misfortune that his mind , t fie env (s) c onstructed.. He : would - never lend. the h tath of his character (be it what it might), or 1 m euts °titY °t office in opposition to his fixed sen t N asto, or would h e accept of office under the tirofai" that he was todiveSt hiMself Of the itiflu - - iC I to l e lt "tity any rate)en one great q is us ues- Oa t , c _ a ve th;it authority in hopeless a,t)(l tt 'tr t ., o : o • All th!s had been extorted from him. He ot torn. for his s e n ti ments t o the d e lib era ti ve G wont th em which. was before the public, and not I t ‘‘'' ll "g froM him by a most unfair applica tOas mae no fault of his if in justifying himself,47N . lelled to contrast his opinion with that of tli a ge b nr itli respect to the question before the te at t W e Perfectly agi e ed i n the-general doctrine, th e 'til e i as the excl usive prerogative of the Crown l ist '4) is O wn 'Ministers. He admitted that the b e the.' 4 e s trong in which Parliament , was justi ‘l44eter " ring. But Parliament had a double h est 41 '0 e t "was a Council ofConlroul ; but it te tiv iti .nuncil of Advice. He was but ill-read, ovt Journals of Parliament, but in the Cone til e country, who would contend,' ih'at •in bo case of this nature, Parliartant,,if it thOtight peoperld do so, might not interfere, and by :11b ierposition of advice prevent the necessii.y of con t. roul. That was a dangerous Species of argument, which went to show how absurd some p.; . rticular o:- rence was by bringing forward another as less ab surd and groundless. His Right Hon. Friend had used,this argument with peculiar infelicity. j He had stated, that in 17g4, in_times of great turbulence, the House of Commons never adopted so dangerous a proceeding as to interpose their advice to the Crown with .respect to the Miuistr v . No-;-they took a more mitigated course; they adopted the constitutional . proceeding of addressing the Sovereign to continue their own existence ! Had that been the present proposition . , his Right Hon. Friend would have had some sbadow.of argument, when he con tended, that it was, proposed to do too Much, If • the reverse had been the case—if the precedent were a motion foran Address to the Sovereign, requeSt inghirry to form an efgcient Ministry, and the pre sent. propo,rition were an Address to, the Sovereign, praying hiM not to dissolve Parliament, his. Right Honourable Friend might 'have con , ended with great force and effect, that although former Parliaments did stretch their pOwer by advis ing the Sovereign with- resped to his Administra tion, they had never, by addressing him to 'conti nue their existence, removed those land-marks of 'the Constitution; the destruction of which would render Parliament an illegitimate authority, and not the rut representative' of the people. H av i ng sa id thus much in justification of the motion, he must beg leave_utterlY to,diselairn all. knowledge of the intention of bringing it forward. No man admired more than he did the independent conduct and vi g,rous talents of -the Hon. Mover i no man' would oe more proud to,ca4 him his Honourable Friend; but iE there were'any,man in the House whom he should have s',-46ied as likely to evince the most de termined political hostility towards himself, it was , that Hon. Gentleman, It the . House therefore were surprised at t he motion he was not less so.— The' motion had beeri met by the. Order of the Day. Whit. ! 'was it come to that ?- An unheard of mo- tiorer—a motion trenching upon the, prerogative—in verting the march of the Constitutional powers— wresting the very sceptre froM the hand of theSove reigit, to b, mel by passing to the Order of the day ! Not by an indignant negiitive---not by a censure of the Mover—not by closing the door, and consider ing what should be &me to the bold tnnovator. No, this unheard of—this mouStrous proposition was met by the Order of th - Day, and that by an AdMi nistration which pronounced itself strong enough 'successfully to carry on the affairs of the country. The Honourable Mover of the Order.of the Day had said, that he (Mr. Canning) demanded a concession of principle as the conditions of his . acceptance, of offi..:e. He referred to his recorded minute for a, confutation of this assertion. Ali he had asked for was information whether the opinions and policy of Government continued the same His. Noble Friend, with that candour which had always dist.in ,. guished him, replied, that his own opinion conti nued the same, and that he was not aware of any change in that of his colleagues. His Right Hon. Friend had said, that if he (Mr. Canning) had con sented to accept office on the terms that were pro posed to him (that was, with the knowledge that the individual at the head of the Government re mained of the same opiniot) his motion would be, unnecessary. True he' might have moved it in the Cabinet, and been beaten there ; but he preferred moving it in the House, even if he were beaten there, for it would spew that he had not forfeited his pledge. His Right Honourable Friend , asked of his (Mv. Canning's) opinions, as if he had recently adopted them. ,It was not so. He-had held-them ever ; but he had thodght it was much better for the Catholics and the people of Ireland, to interpose his feeble shier between the Monarch and th e c o u n t r y .and not hazard, by any means, the peace of the empire, and,,the tranquiliy of his venerable Sove reign. But that which he yielded to the conscienti ouseese of his Sovereign, he was not disposed to yield to the convenience of Ministers. He would have set feted obloquy to the last moment of his life, rather than ha've plAuted his Sovereign's pillow with thorns. But rt:was too much to expect that he would treat Ise policy and opinions of individuals as he had been disposed to treat the irremovable conscience of the, King. To that obstacle aucceeded the obstacle opposed by his late lamented Right Honourable Fteendi. Did he treat the scruples of his Right HMI. Friend as he had treated those of his Sove reign ? , Did he fail to act orr the -opinion which he had advanced ? • With respect to his Noble Friend now at the head of his Majesty's Government, he paOtestedthA he had no earthly objection 4 to him, lied that he would have no hesitation in serving r;th •him, or under him, on any subject but the Catholic Chins. On that subject his Noble. Friend approached nearly to hts Right Hon. Friend, .and he would not .consent 'therefore to place himself in a 'siwat;on where his Noble Friend's opinions must predo initiate.. Did he therefore demand a concession to his opinion ? .No. All he atiked was, to let. the subject be fairly considered, where alone it cculd be considered without heats and animosities, and H here, he predieled, let the. Ministers be whom they It must, at no distant period, be consiJered = the Ca. , binet. His Right Hou. Friend had asked Mtn (and again unfairly) whether he had not seen a statement of the limieitiou of opinions entertained by the dif ferent AZembers of the Cabinet ? 'He bad seen He did not wish .to speak disrespectfully ; but, as he was forced to speak, he, wOuld observe, that on re ceiVieg it he had wr i t t en a note to his Right Hon. Friend, in perfectly, good humour, stating, that, es far as he had been able to make' it out, this docu went seemed to be of a controversial nature. It would be unfair to impute to it that it bow awed the opinion cf the. Gibinet, for it conveyed no determined opinion ; it was what- Mr. Burke had called a hors is siccus Aaf disseni, a most beauti ful speciMen of various opinions on the great clues, tions of State. He- subscribed, t o all that h a d been said of the sincerity of the spirit in which the overtures had been made to him. He' wished to cast no.slur on the motives of his Noble Friend, for whom, for twenty years, he had, cherished the wiartnest friendship.. Each might conscientiously entertain an opinion different tro - ni the of he►s ; and, once for all, he would state, that the question on which they diffeted was—not whether instant con- ces.ion should be•made to the Catholics, but whe- ther in th., temper of the times, in the presot state of Europe—in the convulsions which ogiutcd the world, it ‘atild not be wise to allay the anxiety of the public mind, by taking the sUbjeainto consi deration in the Ctebitiet rather than leaving it loose for discussion in Parliament. Had he, with this diflereoce of opinion, accede] to the'Cabinet, he must have sacrificed his cliaraMer, and without eh !- teeter no Mao could be of use to h''s country. I f 'any change were to take 'place in the sentiments of Administration on this most important subje&i, and they were to say that it should be considered liy Go vernment; although perionally he should be out of the question, he would.hail the declaration with tke utrmist - sirrcerity of joy. Mr. RYDE4 explained. Lord CASTLBilinGit entertained' no doubt of the right of Parlianpnt to give any advice to the Crown. that they might think, fir. No moment was pre mature to arrest the arm of the Crown in the exer cise of an .act which it way to recaLe But then Parliament must attend -to the policy and ne cessity of the case. They would net abuse the power to'show'that they could use it. They would well weigh any such proposition. They, mild examine the grounds 'on which it was recommended. They would' consider what had been the praOce of Par- - liament ; and from this combined investigation, they would determine what condua it became them to in the exercise of their high fonaions. He contended hat to pass to the order of the day would be a more sound constitutional- mode of meeting the question than giving it a direct negative, It marked the competence 'of Parliament to interfere while it denied the necessity of the particular case. Of all moments, 'the present,- vhen it WAS not in the power of any man to say exaaily who were in office, was the - most improper for.' such an address 'as that proposed. He admitted - that the exigencies of the State called for a powerful and combined Go vernment. He would not now- consider whether the trials which had been mide to obtain such a Government,. ought not to have been,more success ful., He willingly adMitted that unless the Noble Lord and the Right Hon.. Gentleman thought they could accept mil - ice consistently with' public and private honour, they 'were justified in declining but the fact was, the Councils of his Royal High ness had, since the termination- of the restrictions, been occupied in attempting to form a broad, strong and :efficient Administration. It might hanpett, without: imputing blame to any one, that with the utmost efforts tf the Crown, such difficulties might exist in combining public men as to render the for mation of such an Administration as that now so earnestly desired, impradicable. In tVB3, for - , period of near two months, the only individual who was in a situation to cal; himself a Represen tative of the Crown, was obliged to state in his place that his Majesty .had made every effort to produce an efficient Admiriistration ; but that up to that period all his efforts' had proved- abortiVe. Did the 'Hon. Mover of the Address mean that if the Clown could not effect that-which it wished to effeet; and , which it was so desirable to effect, that ate country should therefore be left without art Administration ? The Honourable Mover ought to have stated his opinion of the prattical course which the Crown ought to pursue, in order to rescue the country from one of its most serious -difficulties, and to reconcile public men,- differing as they did, not on one, but -on many questions of -policy.- With reference to the conduct pursued by himself and his colleagues in their advice to the Re gent, since the death of his lamented friend, who was the pride, and :might have been 'the saviour of the country, he would state that they had declared to his Royal Highness, while they recommended, if possible, to form a combined Administration, that they would never shriek front 'lwo - duty to his Royal Highness and the country at so arduous a pe riod, and that they should consider themselves the basest of men if they suffered the hand of . an assassiti to have such a poxerful effea as to compel them suddenly to abdicate their situations, or pusillani mously to advise his Royal Highness to abandon that course orpolicy which had been pursued for so many years, which they sincerely believed was the wisest that could be adopted, and to which-Parlia ment and the country had so 'repeatedly-given their' cinaion. No ; though deprived of their bulwark,' though pressed down .by public and private feeling, they:suggested to his Royal Highness to exercise his judgment in the ferroation of a ntqv Administration, and expressed their determination, if his Royal Highness should fail in 'this effort, to stand by hitn, to preserve the . Crown from any inroads which might be attertitned upon . it, and to save the coun try from the odium of having allowed such an atro cious as as that recently committed e to, change the whole tenor and .complexion of,, its r policy. He might, perhaps, be-permitted - to say S. single word 'about himself. He had occupied•as. few minutes of the time of : the House in observations on his own conduCt as any man, but in justification in the part which he had consented to take in the late trans adion, House would do him injustice if they did not allow him to_ declare, that while he would not leave his Royal Highness until he . saw what' could be effected, he' was anxions to relieve his Royal Highness from any difficulties arising out of considerations in which he wits persoually concerned. He did not eome to the Government from impa tience of office, or motives of unwoulty ambit too ;. he,came to render his feeble, assistance .to it, at a moment when the principles on which it had until that period proceeded were hazarded, by the seces, lion of a , Noble Marquis. He should have felt wholly incapable and unfit for the digtharge of the duties entrusted to him, had he not been conscious that rfo effort short -of the sacrifice of honour ought to be wanting on his part; to relieve the A !minis . tration of the country from any difficulty growing not of his personal situation. He did feel that there might be circumstances whichwoLiid . embarrasi his . - colleagues in their attempt to avail them-elves of the tarots of others. therefore, without any d's posiion to shrink from the arduous,stiuggle (a fet-1-: ing of which, he trusted, his nature was incapable) he badthaught -it his duty to tender his resigoar)Oo to his Royal Highness, and by thus putting hirnsi-lf out of the question, give► facilities for the formation , of an extended Administration, and more particu larly with reference to the condodt'of it with ability in the House of Commons. If that resignation was not accepted by his Royal Highness, or listened to by his colleagues, he was not answerable for these' circumstances; for it w.is tentlert.d witl► a most Anxious wish that it should be receivel. Adverting to the doentnems which had been published in the newspapers,: heexpressed his astonishment that they had got, there so soma. He had never' seen them until yesterday morning ; for•until the whole nego ciation was finished, motives of delicacy induced him to be no party to it. That measure was taken V the Cat ) net on its own grounds,' and he had not been present at any of their discussions. The No ble Lorsl thought the House ought to. be apptised of the pra,lical opinions of th e Ri g ht Honourable Gen-, tlern;n on tiSe subject of thoSe claims, in order that tt t&gitt be ascertained whether.. the advantage of his great vilents 'in the formation of an Administra tion would lead to a " decisive measure. Isdith-' _hold ng that su - pp l ort for the reasons which he .had adduced, did, he mean to state that in what he +ern)» ed his consideration" of the queStion, precipitate conc,>ssions should be made? He Was aware'that Gent!etre!) opposite, in their view of the subjec"t, did not consider precipitate concession as the neces sary consequence or, inquiry—they only recognized the riOit. At the same time he .was,disposed to al niit that, the question was a firndamental one, Ai conneeled•wirti the public intercsts.• to the poliCy, if he we4-e. to state his own corwttp-, iutns upon ttfe policy of torming an AdministratioA at the present momentous crisis, he should say th::t to turn his back on all other questions but the ca tholic question, was a Line 01. cond,ua danger:lns in the extreme. .To create a Government for the ex press purpose of con4ideritig .the Catholic Ciaims, appeared so preposterous a proposttion, thu not imagine the Right Honourable genelettem ex-, peeted the House to sanction it ; yet such was his hope or expedation • before 'he • would consent to take °lac. The Right H rnourable G-inthiman would dq great service to the putili;, - 7, it he tvild state whnt he distiuelly meant to propose, in that What t ould be the rational probability of security- from the• Catholic, body,, consistent with that repugnance which the Protestant Establishment telt ? lf.,he would condescend to state any safe propo-ition,: he, assured. the Right Honourable he shon.lsl have his support. But he would assure the .Right Hon. Gent. that he never saw the, possibility of giving way to these claims With perfett security. He. \ was friendly ..to them under regulations consistent with the•safety of the Established Religion, out he never had made those claims the instrument of political power.••---(Hear, hear ! froth Sir J. .A ezopo7t.) —Notvtithstanding what the Hon. Baronet had chosen to assert on a limner night, and to sing again to-night, 'the fa& W.rs. so. He _had *uniformly given his 'support to the question, and would 'again, if it could be car ried without convulsion ; but he would never let it be.a - stalking horse to disturb- larger and more ,irn potant questions. He had unifornq adhered t o those opinions during the administration of Mt. Pitt,' and hen .he joined Lord Sidmouth, but had ra,t given any pledge at the Union ; he had stated as much in .hislast visit to England, previous to the. 'Union, lc> the Cabinet. Although he was mock iiidebltd to the CathoLcs for carrying thai measure through, yet it was understood by ahem that the questi.m of Ernancipetion,. as it is -called, swas.not. mixed %it!' the Uteon. The Noble Lord declared . he Wou!d'not separate from his Colic. goes in a mo ment of great pitblic,calamity, upon the mere ques tion of the Catholic Claims, without. knOvaing what practical means could be devised of security in the event of their praye:s being 'granted. ‘ Heobjt:tied to that principle whiCh would gO the ,length taf mak4ig the Cabinet di6late to the Parliament. Such. a - principle was a direct violation of the Coos;itu•z, tion. With respect to the war in the Peninsula, the, wisdom of Parliament looked to the prosecution of the war on a large scale, convinced that it must be either advantageous or fatally destructive. Was this a time When the cause might be said to be truly Britislishen the glbry of it shone so con spicnous--4as this a time to abandon it, when the country was employing nearly .9.0 millions steiling annually, and carrying it on, including the Army, the Navy; the Supplies, and the Subsidy ? This certainly was . Dot• the lime to run, the nalonal cha racter down. . ,Adverting to the main question be fore the House, the N o bl e Lord maintained that the motion was case. Mr. CANNING 'tTude afew ob;eywatiOns icy expl,l - • ' • • Sir Jorrg I\4 I. F.‘:VPORT ,noticed the observations the - , - Noble 'Lord, respecting the Union, and de clared his i , terition. of repeating : the charge 3 aoinst the N ble Lord, of not fulfilling hfs en gagements. The Noble Lord, might - say, he had not given any' pledges. True, lie might nq ; but to honourable minds,-engagements were as bind. irg as - pledges. il:. Union was carried by theseeu ga;eMent, by sinister, dirk,,andprivate means, a n d notwilfsfandisig what the Noble Lord, had said, ht.: would cdminue to sing the sawe,soug, ua he fol. tilled his :,ngagt meats--he would not leave him a S , hsiOo, no, not Id( a Se , .sion, without teminding him of his ins'ocerily and tergiversation, and-conse quently of drawing- upon hi n the merited, obloquy of the litthhc.—(Order, Order !) Mr, MARTIN (Of GJiway) observed, .that the NO- . ble Lord hied some chrlic.il6e;'s upon the subject of the Catholic dernands , --those,demands had beet (al.. ready dttailed on the face-ot t he' P,titions. It there fore remained for the' Government to say what ctrins they were ready to grant. He wished the Noble Lord would appoint a day for that purpose, as the proposition would come with mere propriety' from the Government than ,tr,zrn the Right Ito.' noorab:e Gentlern..n. With respe'A - to the motion, he should vote for the Amendment, if' the Noble Lord would day that an Administration should be formed on.ari extended basis;. it not be would vcte for the original ,motion. Lord cASTLEVEAGII denied that he hai stated his ignorance 01 the,detuand's of the Catholics. Mr. S. WORTLEY replied very 6 , horOy, express ing* his det!:ruttn:ition not td go the length o f the , Hunnurable Ci:•ntletnao (Mr, Wilberforce) in his doctrines, for he must say that he never Le.ird a speech so. full of unconstitutional doctrine 4. The Noble Lord had failed to prove, that all bad been done which ought to have been done. The house then di'.ided on, the motion - of Mr. Eyre. A yes Noes . Mmjority against it . 4 The original rriot ion for the Address was of course. - ca: ried. Previous to ihe re-opening the Gallery- (as we understood), • Mr. S WoaTi.riv was italoced, .c) withdraw his pro:-nsitions tor, carry ingup-Abe AA