The Sun. — London, England, 1846-03-20 00:00:00

w - == IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 11 OC USE OF LORDS, March 19. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. TIMAIIDLAND GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a landed proprietor in Galway against the Midland Great Western Railway. He moved that the petition be re ferred to the Committee on the Bill. IRISH GREAT WESTERN. The NOBLE A! , H) _LEARNED LORD also presented a peti tion from the undertakers of the Grand Canal, Ireland, praying that they might be heard by counsel against the Great Western ; and a petition from Thomas Berry, El proprietor in the same Company. CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. Lord DACRE presented a petition against this Bill. DIRECT PORTSMOUTH AND EPSOM, AND DORKING RAILWAYS. Lord CAMPBELL said he had two petitions to pre sent, in which he took a lively interest, against these railways, from a lady of the highest respectability—the widow of the late Under-Secretary for Ireland, Mr. Drummond. She stated that she was now the proprietrix of a beautiful estate, near Ledwell (as wo understood), in the county of Surrey, which was formerly the pro p erty of Mr. Richmond Sharp—(Hear, hear, from Lord Brougham)—who he believed was well known to his Hon. and Learned Friend. This estate commanded the most beautiful prospect in the world. Now, he was of opinion that her rights were by no means respected, because she was a widow, as the Direct Portsmouth and Epsom and Dorking Railways were projected to run through the very heart of her estate, which in that part was laid out in most beautiful plantations, upon an elevation of fifteen feet. This he conceived to be a very great hardship, and he tructed that such spoliation would not be permitted. It was a mere mockery to speak of compensation in such a case as this. If the late Mr. Drummond were alive no such aggression would be attempted, and therefore he (Lord Campbell) hoped that whatever Committee should have charge of the Bill they would take care of the rights of the petitioner. LAWS OF MORTMAIN. Lord BEAUMONT begged to correct a mistake that had been made in the public prints, in reference to a petition he presented to this House a few nights ago . That petition was from several extensive landed proprietors in the counties of Durham and Northumberland, praying that the powers of the Roman Catholic bishops, as defined in the Mort main Act, might he restricted. But the newspapers had made it appear that the petition was from the inhabitants of the city of Durham, and the c alsequence was, that a meeting was held in that town for the purpose of ascertaining who the parties were who had signed the petition. He, therefore, hoped that this explanation would go forth, in order to remedy the error. DISTURBANCES IN IRELAND. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY begged to call th 3 attention of the House to a matter of some import ance, with a view to ascertain whether the Government bad any knowle& eof it. As there was now before this Iluese a Bill affecting Ireland, he did think it would be desirable to clear the matter up. It alluded to the pre eent state of Roscommon, and contained statements which could scarcely be believed. The Noble Marquis then read a statement from a documenthe held in his hand, from which it appeared that the system of eviction of tenantry was sadly on the increase in Ireland. It was stated in a journal published in Roscommon a few days ago—although he did not believe the truth of the whole of that statement—that a certain lady had dispossessed uo less than four hundred tenants a few weeks ago, and who were consequently plunged into the greatest distress, without the slightest means of shelter. That lady and her husband had, on the authority of the same journal, dispossessed upwards of 2,000 human beings within the last two years. Now, although he (the Marquis of Londonderry) could not for it moment believe that the statements were, on the whole, correct, although they were printed in very large letters, yet he did think that if the Government had any power of preventing those most cruel evictions they ought to do something in this particular case. Public notice ; in his opinion, ought to be taken of this matter. Every one must feel that no country could be properly carried on when such cruelties were per mitts d. He therefore wished to know whether the Government had made any inquiry into the circum stances, and, if they had, whether they had any objec tion to lay the information before their Lordships ? Earl SP. GERMANS said that the Noble Mar quis had been kind enough to give him notice that enornine of his intention to put that question. I n re ply, he (the Earl of St. Germans) had to say that the Government had received no information whatever of the cieeunistances ; indeed, it would be very difficult tG obtain any information, inasmuch as there were no names given. It appeared to him, howevermuch they may deplore this extraordinary exercise of power, it was im possible for the Government to prevent it. But at the same time if they should obtain any information, he on the part of the Government, would be most happy to fur nish it. Earl CLANRICARDE said that the case appeared so horrible, that he thought it deserving of notice. It was vite possible to arrive at the particulars of the case , if tr,:e names of the parties could be obtained, because, if any cmilles bad been ejected, there must have been some pree,.^us process at the Court of Quarter Sessions, or the Baronr. 1 Courts, in which case there would be a : record, and after s::e particulars were obtained he should be most harpy to move that a Committee of that House be appointed to take into consideration the amendment of the present law of landlord aed tenant.—(Hear.) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he had not the experience or abilility of the Noble Lord who had just spoken, and not being connected with the south of Ireland, he did not prosecute his inquiries into the matter. Ile thought that in stating the case to the House, and in calling the attention of the Government to the subj ct, they would make necessary inquiries, and report to the House what measures they would adopt to put a stop in the time coming to similar proceedings. Earl CLANRICARDE said that he might be mis t take:LAl, that infoymation might be had from the B a eeeial Courtseecertainly information might be re cetved from tbb.Sheriff'P office. t. The. Earl Si',. GERMANS said that. the Government did not desire to conceal any of .the facts. All he had skid vrasi.tleat it was not in the power of Government, if • IfiVapr4ecetoitte ivereiegal, to tat S stop to them. The Marcenie of. WESTMEATH : said, that if the • Marquis whd had brought forward the circum stance were in thelaabit of reading the-Irish newspapers, aware Abet 0,9' did not always confine sthereeeleee fee el l e.truili..-(Laughter.) Lord STO,URTQN_postponed the motion for certain ve t o-Lica neigh he had, given notice, in order not to in lei:reit.' with the everee important question on Ireland, which came ere'onsfslonday first, MINISTERS' MONEY. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from the reagiet e ratee aiirtelverenuncil of Cork, praying for the bo l / 4 tws,2l: Ounsters money. .ii:IARITABLE TRUSTS. The .ZSoELE and LEARNED Loan also presented a petitions tom certain bookbinders against the Charitable Trusts Bill. MIDLAND H AS WESTERN RAILWAY. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the guardians of Lord Forbes (as we thought) and the Viscountess Forbes, against the above railway, which threatened to destroy the property of Castle Forbes. ALTERATIONS IN THE RAILWAY SYSTEM. Lord. KINNAIRD said that he would propose, on Thursday next, that a Committee be appointed to take nto consideration the best means of introducing one uni form system in the management of railways, and of securing the fulfilment of the provisions given by the Act of Parliament under which the cora pa have o btained their powers; and b y which g reater rtos sccomeelodation and safety may be secured to the public. Secondly, to take into consideration the best means of avoiding exeeavagant expense for obtaining Acts of Par ; liament by bona fide concerns, and of preventing the formation of schemes got up for the purposes of spe culation. _ Thirdly, to consider what legislative measures can he framed for the protection of individuals from the injuries they may sustain by the laying down of lines through their property, without the ruinous expense of opposing them in Parliament. He knew cases where inoividuals had been so interfered with by railways, and their solicitors and agents had told them it would be better for them to submit to the injury than to go to the expense of obtaining redress in Parliament. POOR-LAW COMMISSI ONRS S. REFUSAL OF PAPE. Lord BROUGIJAM said, that in the case of a Com mittee formed to inquire into the operation of the Irish poor-law circumstances have occurred to which he felt it necessary to call the attention of the House. The Committee was obstructed in its proceedings by a wit ness refusing to produce papers and answer ques tions, being forbidden by the order of the Poor -lacy Commissioners to disclose to the Com mittee the contents of certain documents. It was so monstrous a thing, that he could hardly have believed it, had he not seen Mr. Gunston, the Poor law Commissioner, also the letter in which he asks per mission of the Poor-law Commissioners to produce to the Committee the correspondence. Mr. Gunston told him that he could not find the answer to the letter, but be assured Om that the answer expressly forbid him Lo produce the peoers. Lord CLANCAIITY said the witness Certainly did 1 poers before the Committee and fcr inquiry, and it had been-isTs object to produce the he thought it a fit subjec t intention to bring the circumstences under the notice of the Rollie, had he not been anetipated by his Noble Friend Lord Broueehani. Mr. unstOn had refused to produce the papers, but bad now not oi;!eined per 'mission of the Poor-law Commissioners ; but he objected that the house should be dependent on the permission a ers necessary to of ;nee public body . for h carry oi n: - the inquiries. He t . e hi:ladthought that the c oram itt„ wight to have noticed the circumstance by some special reieert in their general report, as he looked with great jealousy on the manner in which t h e Poor-law Commiseioners had le:terfered, as there WM wanActthe of Parliament which laid doNYn the manner in i dutie;hould ;ee discharged. Lord BROUGOAM said, thou *h the papers were pro duced to-morrow, an effence agains: their privileges had been committed, as those. who had refused to produce them had prevented their inieairy from oeng on to-day. g The Poor-law Commissioners silOuld be told that it was at their peril that they refuse d to p:odaee these papers. They had no right to refuse to prodece them. Mr. Gunston said he had had their permission to do so ; but they had no permission to withhold them. If the Committee required these documents, they . might report to the House, and obtain an order for their pro duction. lie was anxious to keep their privileges in as small a compass as possible compatible with the proper ee carrying on of the btainess entrusted to them, and he *Mad' net consent tolorego any prieille of an inquisi torial character which was necessary. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, MAR,CTI 00, ever, it was apprehended, would lead to no public in jury, for if they should have to refer to their own works, ' the Commissioners of Woods and Forests would be em powered to call in temporary referees.—(Hear, hear.) The salaries of the officers who would be appointed under the Bill would be paid out of the Consolidated Fund. The Noble Lord then went on to state the minor clauses of the Bill, and concluded by moving the second I reading of the Bill, and expressing his intention of pro ' posing its committal to-morrow. Lord COLBORNE said the Bill proposed by the Noble Viscount was still open to innumerable objections, and would not remedy the evils intended. It was but a small improvement on the Act of last year, which was open to every objection. That Act was oppressive, and I those who came within its operation bitterly complained of the expenses entailed by the official referees and other officers appointed under the Act. Lord CAMPBELL would not oppose the second reading of the Bill, but he must join with his Noble Friend in saying that the Bill passed last year had failed altogether. He reminded their Lordships that when it was under their considera tion, he asked them the delay of another session. I lie and those who had opposed the Bill foretold the mischief it would inflict, but in vain ; however, all their prophecies had been more than fulfilled, and his Noble Friend had given but a faint idea of its oppressive and defective operation. Not only were the clauses of the 1 Noble Viscount open to objection, but all the clauses. In short, it was beyond his power to make the old Metro ' politan Buildings Act a goad one, and he therefore hoped that he would remodel the Act which he introduced, and make it an Act to supersede the old one, or to commence de novo. That would be a better system to rely upon until a new measure could be framed. 200 acres, which could only be had by knocking away i nine or ten theusard houees at a large expense. It was proposed that one station should be established in Parliv.• meet street, another on Cornhill, two in Holborn, and others in various parts of the metropolis. Under these circumstances. the Committee of Selection had thought it better that the matter should be referred to a practical body who resided on the spot and under stood the question, rather than refer it to a Com mittee of Honourable Members, who were se- . lecte3 from distant parts of the country, and who were to arrive at their conclusions from such viva voce evi dence as 'eight be brought before them. He begged, therefore, to move an address to her Majesty, for the ap pointment of a Commission, to investigate and report upon the various railway projects of which the termini are proposed to be established within or in the immedi ate vicinity of the metropolis. Sir R. PEEL—I have no doubt that the lion. Gen tleman has very good reasons for the course that he has attempted to pursue, but I feel that there is some thing due to the country as well as to the several companies whose interests he is anxious to advocate. I do not desire to state these reasons at the present mo ment, because there is a necessity for considering this subject in the whole of its bearings. What the reasons are for such a course it is not for me at present to state, nor to say whether such a Commission should be appointed or not. At the present juncture I have only to assert that the interests which he is desirous of furthering have received the best consideration of the Ministry. Per haps I am not stating the precise position of the ques tion ; but my impression is, that the whole of the rea sons ought to have been embodied in the report of the Committee, for then there would have been sufficient grounds for the consideration of the House. At the present moment we have no statement on which we can rely, and taking this objection, and believing that more suffi cient reasons might have been afforded to the House, I feel bound to say that the debate could not well be taken to-day, even according to the statement of the Hon. Member. I shall therefore move, Sir, that this debate ho a djourned until Monday, when the Ministry will be in poss . scion of the information which is necessary to enable them to judge of which will be the hest places as stations for railways in the metropolis. On the question being sgain put, Mr. FOX MAULE said, that whatever the stations might be, and that whatever the reasons of her Ma jesty's Government might be for delaying their de cision, there was not the slightest doubt but that the public were grievously in need of .:,he stations to which the lion. Member had referred, and he only re gretted that the statement which had been submitted to the House did not cianpreherd a definition of their precise orfers. He agreed that a Committee of this Heine could not answer the whole requirements of the case, and he thought that the accommodation that was required ought to be provided, subject, perhaps, to the confirm ti' n of the City authorities. There was no question but that this was a matter which nearly concerned the people ; but he believed that the time was come for the settlement of the business. • Sir G. GEEY thought that the great objection to the appointment of this Commission was the prevailing opinion that it would interfere with the operations of the Board of Mr. WILSON PATTEN said his sole object in making the motion for the appointment of the Com mission was to obtain the fullest information on the its opinion, that decision should be made as public as p,,sbible,—(Flesr, h. sr.) IRISH LIFE PROTECTION BILL. Mr. SMITH O'I3RIEN wished to ask the Right Iron. Secretary for the Howe aplrtment if Blau es r•-ferring to taxaTion under this Bill, which had been expunged while the Bill was pasting through the IT, , rds, would be printed when the Bill came before that House ? Sir J. GRAHAM, in reply, was understood to say that they would. MERIT IN THE ARMY. Captain LAYARD wished to ask the Right Hon. Secretary at War, if it was intend that meritorious sol diers, and officers' servants, sh _mid have extended to them the benefits of the new warrant ? Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT was understood to say that he was not at present prepared to make the alteration. POST-OFFICE RETURNS. Mr. HAWES wished to auk the Right Hon. Gentle man the Secretary of the Treasury a question relative to certain returns which he moved for a short time ago, relating to the Post-office. Those returns had not yet been laid upon the table of the House, and he wished to ask the Right lion. Gentleman when they might be ex p.:Tied? Since he had moved for these returns he had seen a statement, copied from the French prints, which it would appear contained some of the points of infor mation which to required. The statement was, how ever, erroneous, and he wished to have it corrected as soon as possible by the production of the papers. Mr. CARDWELL said that the lion. Member had been good enough to give him notice of his question. and he had made inqoiry into this matter; and he could assure the Hon. Member that the returns were in the course of preparation, and they would be laid upon t..e table of the House the moment they were completed. The Duk of BUCCLEUCH said, that with regard to the measure of 1844, it wa, a considerable time before the second reading was moved. It was a very long and very heavy Bill, and no person seemed to wish to take the trouble of it.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the particular measure of official referees, he found that in several cases one had given one reason, and another had given another, but as it was quite impossible to hope for any measure, with regard to the buildings of this metropolis, which . was not open to objection, be be lieved that the amendment introduced by his Noble Friend was well worthy of consideration. Lord ASHBURTON was quite ready to meet the difficulties of this question, and among the first of the objects which this board had to consider was the subject of smoke. He knew that in the large towns in the north, for the expenditure of a few pounds, the great manufac turers had been enabled to obviate this serious evil, whereas it was well known that it was only by a mere accident that the inhabitants of the metropolis ever suc ceeded in seeing the sun. Now, this was a difficulty, and a mischief that might very easily be obviated, and he trusted the mischief would be attended to. - Lord CAMPBELL was ready to bear his testimony to what had fallen from the Noble Lord. When he had the honour of filling the office of Attorney-General, he had found it necessary to grant patents for the con sumption of smoke. It was well known that the parti cles of smoke were merely inconsumed particles of fuel, and he should be ready to accede to my motion which stopped such an evil. The Earl of DALHOUSIE was glad to accede to any proposition which would remedy such an evil. The Bill was then read a second time, aad the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow ; the House then adjourned. subject. Sir R. H. INGLIS called the attention of the Chair man of the Committee (Mr. Greene) or her Majesty's Government to a point in connexion with the matter under discussion. So far as he understood the subject of a central station for the metropolis, there were two or three schemes not abandoned, that terminated in the City, but did not extend to the river. It strut•k him that as the river was the greatest highway in the world, that half the benefit of any terminus would be lost unless the railway station came close to the river side. He was aware of one plan that proposed,to have a station opposite Hungerford-brids e. Now what he wished to call the attention of the House and the promoters of this scheme to was, whether it was not possible, without great engineering difficulties, to carry the plan further up the bank of the river, so as to give more general accommodation. Mr. LABOUCHERE considered that the Govern ment should have attended to this matter before now. They ought to have laid their plans, if they had any, at the commencement of the session. This was the proper course, and would have avoided much difficulty. Whatever delay took place would only cause specula tors in land to raise prices, so that the promoters of railway companies would be placed under great disadvar tatees. He was. however, not surprised at the Government not taking the matter up with so much avidity as he should have liked them to have done after what had befallen the reports of the Boar tof Trade last year. Whatever might be the difficulty of the case, he hoped the ques tion would be taken up at the earliest possible period, and some arrangement come to. He hoped the Govern ment had givesa it their serious consideration, and that they were prepared now with some plan. His mind was c ntirely made up on the question, and he considered that it would be much better investigated by a Commission than it would be by a Select Com mittee of the House. He thought, however, that the at tention of the Government ought to have been called to it earlier in the session, for if that had been done a great deal of time would have been saved, and other advantages would have been gained, which, in all orohahility, could not now be made available. Sir R. PEEL said that his mind was also made up on the subject. Her M tiesty's Government had had it under attentive consideration only during the last few days. As no reasons had been given in the report for the rec mmendation it conveyed, he considered that it wou!d be rather a dangerous precedent to establish to acquiesce in it at once without further consideration. He thought, Therefore, the best course would be to leave the matter at rest for the present, and he would announce what course the Government intended to pursue with reference to it on Monday next. After a few words from Mr. W. PATTEN, which were inaudible, • Mr. HUNIE said, that before the question was brought to a close, he wished to sly a few words relative to the observations made by the Right Honourable Gentleman, which seemed to reflect on the Board of Trade. He paid considerable attention to the proceedings of that Board, and he did not think that they were deserving of any cen sure for the manner in which they had discharged their duties. He bad, in consequence of the discussions on its proceedings which had taken place in that House, made the most careful inquiries into its manegement and he had every reason to believe that the Noble Lord at the head of that Board (with whom he had never spoken more than five minutes in his life), and Mr. Porter, with the other gentlemen of whom it was composei, had discharged their duties in the most indefatigable and independent manner. He did consid r that these reflectiens cast upon public men were very discouraging to them in the performance of their duty. Mr. LABOUCHERE begged that he might not be misunderstood, for he by no means meant to cast the slightest personal reflection upon any of the member• composing that board, but he did assert what he had many times previously said, that it was not con stituted in such a manner as to carry the weight with the House which it ought. He would again disclaim any intention of casting a reflection upon any member of the board. Sir G. CLER' said that he must bear witness to the indefatigable zeal and fidelity of the Right Honourable Gentlemen who were members of that board. The Governmcut could not have interfered after the jealousy which had been expressed by the House against any inteference upon their part. The debate was then adjourned till Monday next. NIGHTLY ASYLUMS. Mr. HUME presented a petition, signed by 1,000 of the ratepayers of Chelsea, against the establishment of nightly asylums for the poor. Lord EBRINGTON gave notice that he would, on Tuesday next, move for papers relative to the Honiton Union, where the pauper labourers were sent to labour in the fields. Mr. P. SCROPE gave notice that he would, on Tues day next, move for the introduction of a Bill a hich would give better relief to the poor of Ireland. LOSS OF THE GREAT LIVERPOOL. Sir G. GREY wished to ask the R ght Hon. the Secretary to the Admiralty whether there had been any inquiry as to the loss of the Great Liverpool steam-ship ? He wished to know if there ought not to be an inquiry similar to that of a court-martial, which was generally instituted when any of her Majesty'e vessels were lost? Mr. COItRY said the Admiralty had no right to make such an invest:gation as that which had been suggested. Their duty was simply confined to the receipt and delivery of the mails, and to s• e that the terms of the contract were faithfully adhi red to. In this case, the whole of the responsibility rested with th officers of the Company, and the Admi ralty, although they had been applied to by the Company to do so, had considered that it would be an ob jectionable precedent to appoint a naval offieer to act in a court of inquiry upon the acts of any officer not in the service of the country. The directors of the steam-pa •ket company had, however, insti tuted an inquiry, and they had reqttested that the Admiralty agent, who was on board the vessel at the time of her loss should be present at that inquiry, and the Admiralty agent had;been requested to attend accordingly. Mr. P. M. STEWART, as Chairman of the Penin sular and Oriental Steam Packet Company, wished to make a few observations. He was glad that this subject had been brought before the House. The company were most anxious that every inquiry should Ito made into every act of theirs. Tile Company never allowed any act of negligence, or any mis conduct in any of their servants, to go without the strictest investigation. The consequence of this was, that after carrying thousands of persons thousands of miles, this was the first serious accident that had occurred in the company's service. Many months ago when, certain carelessness was observed, the necessary attendant of a long co urse of uninterrupted success, they dictated a letter to be addressed to all their officers to remind them that in steam-vessels the compass was very liable to be . untruthful, and in such instances the officers were required instantly to com municate with the superintendent at Southampton. They were also enjoined, in approaching land under any circumstances, and especially in dark or foggy weather, to use the utmost vigilance, and under such circumstances never to dispense with the use of the lead. That letter was issued, and was not a dead letter by any means whatever. Captain M'Leed, of the Great Liverpool, who had re commended himself by his ability and politeness, was expected home in a few days, when a committee of three gentlemen would be appointed to investi gate the matter.—(Hear.) The Board of Admi ralty had been applied to with a view to their nominating a gentleman to act on the committee, but he declined ; but he hoped their application to the Tri nity House would prove more successful. He might say, in conclusion, that when the tribunal, before Inch the matter wo Id be iavestipted, should have pronouneta HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 19. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. SECOND READING. The following Bill was read a second time, and or dered to be printed, viz. —London, Salisbury, and Yeovil Junction Railway (Basingstoke to Yeovil). Lord EBRINGTON moved that the Plymouth Great Western Docks Bill, which stood on the paper for to day, be read a second time on this day fortnight, as the Compawy had some arrangements to make which were not yet completed. DELAYS AT THE BOARD OF TRADE. Mr. GREENE said he was extremely happy to see his Right Hon. Friend the Vice-President of the Board of Trade (Sir G. Clerk) in his place, because he wished to call his attention to the great delay which took place, not only at the Board of Trade, but in all the other de partments of the Government, in inserting clauses which came within their province in the railway Bills now before Parliament.. Thus considerable unnecessary ex pense was entailed on the promoters of these Bills, and much valuable time wasted.—(Hear.) Sir GEORGE CLERIC said there was no want of diligence in inserting the clauses referred to, and that it was perfectly impossible to proceed faster with the great number of Bills, in which clauses had to be inserted, unless the public interests were neglected. After the complaint of his Hon. Friend, he should take care that no delay took place except such as was necessary. The subject then dropped. OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE RAILWAY. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition in favour of this Bill. LONDON AND OXFORD RAILWAY. Captain OSBORNE presented a petition in favour of the above named Bill. CHICHESTER AND BOGNOR RAILWAY. • Mr. ESTCOURT moved that the standing order No. 110 be suspended, so far as regards the Chichester and Bognor Railway Bill, and that the Bill be read a second time. He moved that the standing order be suspended principally . on the ground of the great saving of money to the parties concerned. The motion was then agreed to. The Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. RAILWAYS.—ADMIRALTY PLANS. Mr. HUME then moved, "that in case of Bills for making, maintaining, varying, extending, or enlarging any aqueduct, archway, bridge, weir, canal, cut, dock, ferry, harbour, navigation, pier, port, railway, reservoir, tunnel, turnpike-road, and water-work, and for all other works and inclosures on tidal lands within the ordinary spring tides, a general plan showing the situation and approaches to the said aqueduct, archway, harbour, &c. should be denoted upon a sheet or sheets of the ordance survey, when published, or else upon maps of an equivalent scale, and extending ten miles on each side; together with enlarged plans and sections of such parts of the works as are on the tidal lands within the ordinary spring tides, on a scale of not less than twenty feet to an inch, with the dimensions figured thereon, shall, on or before the 30th day of November, be deposited iu the Board of Admiralty; and that the same resolution be made a standing order." He was not aware of anything further he bad ssy, ex cept to express his opinion that this motion would be the means of enabling the Admiralty to perform with greater facility the important duties assigned to them, and on those grounds he begged leave to move the reso lution in the words he had given. Captain BERKELEY said he was ♦ery glad that the Hon. Member had brought this subject before the House, because he had a very strong case in point. He would have to call the attention of the House, on Mon day next, to the second reading of the Bill for building a bridge over the river Dee, by the Great Western Com pany. That Bill was thrown out last year, in con se• quence of the Admiralty refusing to permit any bridge to be erected, as it would interfere with the naviga Lion. The Great Western Company now came forward again to endeavour to obtain a Bill to make a bridge very little differing from the former one proposed ; and they now put the House to the expense and trouble of a Committee, although they were aware that their project had been formerly rejected. He should certainly object to the second reading of the Bill on Monday next, as it would put the parties to an enormous and unnecessary expense. Lord R. GROSVENOR, after a few observations that did not reach the gallery, said that in eonsequence of four railways being proposed which would cross the river Dee, the Town Council, who are the conservators of the river, had been put to great expense and anxiety. They were not aware to which railway the Admiralty would object ; and until they knew what course the Admiralty would pursue on the subject, they could not tell how to act. The evidence taken before the Tidal Commissioners, in the course of August last, gave the inhabitants of Chester reason to believe that the Admiralty would not consent to the slightest inter ference with the navigation of that river. Since that time it had been decided by an engineer being sent down to examine and report on the nature of the bridges by which these railways proposed to cross the river, and, the question be had to ask of the Right Hon. Baronet, and one which he wished be would answer was, whether the Admiralty, as guardians of the river, would permit any interference whatever with the navigation of the river ? Mr. ORMSBY GORE said, that in corroboration of the statement just made, he begged to say that the Dee Commissioners had been about to deepen the river and improve its navigation; but that project was put a stop to by the speculators of these railways. He sincerely hoped that what had been brought forward by the Hon. Member for Montrose would have the effect of stopping this evil. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said he was ♦ery glad this motion had been made, as it would relieve the Admiralty from a great deal of trouble, and they would know what course they had to pursue with regard to this project. After a few words from Admiral DUNDAS, and Sir G. COCKBURN, Mr. JERVIS said it would give great satisfaction to his constituents to find that the Admiralty were deter mined to keep up the navigation of the river. Captain PECHELL hoped the motion would have the effect of drawing the attention of the Admiralty to the construction of bridges across rivers, and he was sure they would be actuated by the strictest impartiality. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. HUME then moved that the resolution be a standing order of the House.—Agreed to. Mr. HUME also moved that the promoters of Bills introduced this session be required to deposit plans with the Admiralty, as provided in the resolution just agreed to. Sir R. INGLIS took that opportunity of expressing a hope that a clause would be introduced into the standing orders, providing that when the 30th of November fell on a Sunday the deposit of plans should be made on the Monday following. Sir G. CLERK said that a wrong construction had been put upon the standing orders by the officers of the Board of Trade. It was clear that no deposit should be made on a Sunday. The standing order with respect to the deposit of plans was the same in effect as that relat ing to the service of notices. _ METROPOLITAN RAILWAYS STATION. Mr. PA.TTEN, in rising to move for the appointment of a Commission to i nves ti ga t e and report on the various railway projects, the termini of which were proposed to be in th e metropo li s, sa id h e h e ld i n his hand a map of the metropolis, which showed the various stations proposed to be established in the capital ; and he thought he could not do better than call the attention of the Rouse to it. It had been ebtimated that the ground required fur them would be The Earl ST. GERMANS inquired if the papers re ferred to were " private and confidential ?" The Earl of CLANCARTY said they were, but that nevertheless they contained the instructions of the Poor law Commissioners to Mr. Gunston. Lord MONTEAGLE also considered that AO public body had any right to refuse the production of papers required by Parliament. The House was not only left without information, but by having only a portion of the information they required, was in a worse position than if they had none at all. Lot d CLARE said he was a member of the Committee; that Mr. Gulston stated that he was forbidden to pro duce the papers by the Poor-law Commissioners. Lord CAMPBELL said he apprehended there must be seine mistake in this matter, as Mr. Gunston would not have been so ridiculously absurd as to have re fused those papers.—(Hear, hear.) The Commissioners were bound to produce all papers that were necessary to facilitate this inquiry ; and it was for the Committee to decide what papers were and were not necessary, and not for the Commissioners. This was the most important public inquiry that had been instituted for some time, and therefore every facility should be afforded it. Lord BR4 )UGHAM said that Mr. Gunston wrote a letter to the Poor-law Commissioners to know whether, if he should be called upon to produce certain papers, he should do so ; and the answer was, that the papers were private and confidential, and should not be produced. He would not have said so much upon this case but that he was already cognizant of a defi ciency of judgment by those Commissioners in refe rence to Mr. Parker's case. He had defended the Poor-law Commissioners when they deserved de fence ; and, therefore, he now warned them to attend more to the letter and the will of Parliament, and to do their duty without fear of the newspapers.--(Hear, hear.) That was the charge he made against them, for they had avowed their fear of the press.—(Hear, hear.) The Earl of CLANCARTY presented a petition from the medical practitioners of the county of Clare, praying for the repeal of the present law affecting their pro fession. CORN-LAWS. The Duke of RICHMOND presented three petitions, from certain landed proprietors of the county of Devon, against the present measure. The same Noble Duke presented a numerously-signed petition from the yoemen of Norfolk, who complained that in the event of the present measure of the Government passing, they would be subjected ,to great injustice by the coeration of the present Act of commutation of tithes, which fixed the sum of money to be paid for tithes upon the septennial average of the price of corn, and the Government pro posed that at the end of three years all protection to the landed interest should cease. They therefore prayed that, in the event of the present measure becoming law, their Lordships would introduce an Act to authorise the taking of the average price of corn either yearly or half yearly, instead of septennially, as regaired by the present law. The petition was numerously and respectably signed; and if he might prophesy, he would say that if the un • fortunate measure of Government should receive the sanction of their Lordships' House, many thousands of petitioners would hold the same argument ; and he (the Duke of Richmond), for one, did not see how the argument could be got rid of. LONDON AND YORK RAILWAY. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented two petitions, to which he begged to call their Lordships' attention ; one was for the revival of the Committee of last year, and the second for the appointment of a Com mittee to inquire into the validity of the subscrip tion deed of the company, or rather into the admissibility of the new subscription contract. Ihe points which the petitioners raised were purely points of law, and he thought that their Lordships should appoint a Committee to hear the matter argued. It appeared that a great number of names who had signed the old subscription list had not subscribed the new, and he doubted much whether they could be legally released from their engagement under that deed. Another point also was that the parties claimed to come before Parliament as the proprietors of the deposits paid by other parties. Now, it was a question whether any such transfer could be legal or re ceived by their Lordships' House, inasmuch as it would be an evasion of the Stamp Act. These were points which ought to be seen into, and therefore he gave notice that to-morrow he would move for a Com mittee of the House upon the subject. The petitioners, he might state, were James Tyler and George Payne. Lord BEAUMONT said that they had nothing to do with the subscription-list of last year. There could be no transfer from a deed not in existence. Lord CLANRICARDE thought that the present London and York projectors had in that case no right to come in under the old subscription contract, and there fore no right to claim the advanced stage they were at present in. Lord BEAUMONT—The parties were now in a very different position. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY did not think such a condition could be complied with. Earl GREY considered that it was quite necessary that they should have a new deed. Lord MONTEAGLE said that the present deed might be considered a substitution for the old deed. Last year an objection had been taken to the contract deed, and a Committee was appointed to inquire into the subject, the report of which had not been received prior to the dissolution of Parliament. The new contract-deed only contained the names of 280 persons out of the whole who subscribed to the old contract-deed. This was a substitution of an entirely new instrument for the old one. What was intended by the standing orders of the House - was, that owing to the latenesslof the session, and theinedequacy of Parliament to adjudicate on all the rail way Bills submitted for their consideration, parties should be placed in as favourable a position as if the session had been protracted. But if parties were allowed to sub stitute a different instrument in lieu of the old one, for the purpose of protecting themselves from the charges brought against them, whether true or false, they would be put in a better condition than projects in which no blemish rested, and which stood an excellent chance of meeting with the approbation of Parliament. But this was not intended; and, had it been suggested, would not have been acceeded to. Their Lordships did not intend to allow the Bill to stand over, unless it was produced in the same state this session as it was left during the last. The Duke of RICHMOND considered that they could not bind those who had put their names to the deed, on the understanding that it should be passed last session, to be responsible for the Bill during the present session. He considered that parties must withdraw from the con tract into which they had entered, as the Bill did not pass last session. Besides, owing to speculating in rail ways, and other causes, they must have altered their minds, and might not feel it convenient to renew the re• sponsibility. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE would not then reply to these questions. It would be a question whether their Lordships would recognise those deposits as paid by those parties as transferees or assignees, because they could not show the proper stamped documents with respect to the transfer. Lord REDESDALE protested against the present system of hanging up Bills, as one which was highly unjust. It was impossiEe to treat this petition fairly. The question had been decided before the Standing Orders Committee last year, and, in all probability this Bill would have been thrown out. He hoped that the example which had been set of hanging up Bills would not be followed. Lord KINNAIRD said, that as this was a most important Bill, he hoped their Lordships would give it a favourable consideration. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that last session was almost wholly occupied in the consideration of railway Bills, and the result was the expenditure of enormous sums of money in this particular project ; and he be lieved that, if their Lordships inquired into this matter, it would be found that the manner in which the Bill had been brought before Parl iament, was most credit able to the parties concerne d ; indeed, he believed that was the conclusion to which the other House had ar rived. Under such circumstances, he could not but think it considerably unjust, if their Lordships com pelled the promoters of the Bill to commence anew this session.—(Hear, hear.) Lord BEAUMONT felt certain that if they did not make some alloWances in favour of the promoters, there never would be a road from London to York. THE GREAT WESTERN AND PORT DARLING- TON RAILWAY. Lord BEAUMONT then presented a petition from the high sheriff and gentry of the county of Mayo, in favour of the above-mentioned undertaking. Viscount CANNING said that in pursuance of a notice he had given on Monday last, he now moved for he second reading of the Metropolitan Buildings Bill. The House would remember that the sessions before last en Act was passed, the effect of which was to repeal the old Building Act of 1774, which had been found very insufficient, and to establish a well digested and well regulated code of rules for the purpose of se curing to the community at large as much safety and accommodation in houses as was dependent on a well ordered and well regulated system of building. The Bill passed the session before last, and of which the country might be said now to have had the experience of more than a year was now to be agitated. He admitted that in some parts the defects of the Bill became apparent, and it would be the duty of her Majesty's Government to find some remedy for them. It was not to be expected that it could be otherwise with a measure so minute in its details, and affecting so many conflicting interests of so many various kinds. The consequence was that many recommendations of different sorts had been addressed to Government, stating the real or supposed difticulties of the measure, and many suggestions had b een made (some of them ridiculous enough) from various t,t quarters, pointing out what would e most proper and the safest course which the Government could pursue.—(Hear.) The Government had taken this matter into considera tion. with a view to make certain corrections, in order to obviate mistakes in future •and Lt , would be ' his deity to o bring those corrections under ' a t ,s e e . notice of the House on a future day. In the Act e p rnp u ow n er i i i t i i the year 1844, certain clauses were passed point molt of district surveyors and referees, a g rito e the ap latter all matters of dispute were to be referred. Another clause warranted the appointment of a registrar, who was to be a barrister, and his duty would be to mike de cisions and awards in all disputed matters ; in fact, he was to act as a sort of legal assessor. But the expe rience of this working of the Act had shown that and u many q uestions had arise n of great importance, p on hich the referees c ould not be got to come to one opinion ; and on which it would , be difficult for the re gistrar to say which party w as right.—(Hear.)The object of the Bill wa s to appoint _a . third referee, t being already appointed , but the third would give ha o p por tunity of coming to a decisio n upon the matters , brought before them , This appo intment would, hots _ ev er, make no difference in the cha r g es borne by the üblie By the former Bill the referees were not al 1, • nyed to exercise their calling as surveyors, but by the k refie4t Dill thy /..re allowed to do g(4 Tills, 119 r • IRISH POOR LAW. Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet the S-eretary for the Home Depart ment a question, of which he had not given notice. Some time ago he put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet relating, to the conduct of the Poor-law Com' missioners, who had taken upon themselves the task of dismissing the guardians of the union of Castleblain, in the county of Roscommon. Since then he had received information from several magistrates and rate-payers, stating that there was not a particle of truth in the alle gations contained in the answer of the Right Hon. Baronet. The statement was entirely destitute of foun dation. He (Mr. F. French) wished to know if the Rtht Hon. Baronet still adhered to the answer he had given on the former occasion? Sir JAMES GRAHAM slid, as he had not notice of the preent qu-,stion, h.- had not been able to make any further inqni-y, and therefor , he must adhere to the answer he h-td 'riven on the previous occasion. THE FEVER (IRELAND) BILL Sir JAMES GRAHAM, on moving the order of the day for bri•:ging up the report on this 8111, said that he h , al consid: r. d the slight alteration propo,ed by the Hun. Memher ill. Rochdale (Mr. S. Crawford), and had no objection to its buing; made. On the motion that the report he received, Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE was understood as complaining that one of the clauses interfered with the Poor-law Commissioners granting medical assistance in the workhouse. Sir JAMES GRAHAM sail the clause. as it now st pod. did not interfere with the power of the Irish Poor law Commissioners, or the Board of Guardians, as to admitting parties under certain circumstances. The report was then brought up and received. On e motion that the report be adopted, Mr P. SCROPE, art r s-me interruption wished to introduce an amendment, which would have the effect of remedying the deficiency of medical treatment, the chief difficulty he believed in the ex , cut;on of this law. Sir J. GRAHAM said this was at b,st but a Bill to alter the poor-law of Irelaw!, -nil therefore no radical alteration could he introduced into it. Mr. P. SCROPE thought they certainly were at liberty to introduce an amendment. Nir. S. CRAWFORD thought it was no answer to the House. The Hieht lion. Thironet conceived that the measure was perfect, but he believed that there was a great necessity for improvement. and he should there f( re move as an amendment, that after the 22d clause of the Bill words should he introduced to the effect that medical treatment should be administered to those who had disease in the house: Mr. S. O'BRIEN aas quite ready to agree to the proposition of the Hon. Member for Drogheda, Sir W. Somerville, and thought that some regulation of that kind should be adopttd. He was the more in clined to this course, becaus4 he believed that the re presentations of the Right Hon. Baronct,Sir J Graham, had not been carried out, or were likely to be carried out, and he thought some amendment ought to be in trodaced which world enable the gnar.lians to grant relief under the Irish ro-r-kw. Sir JAMES GRAHAM thought thit sufficient pro vision had already been tnacle by the full and discretion ary power intrust- dto the Poor-law guardians in Ireland. That power entirely obviated, LI his mini t, the neve— sity for any commission, without having reference to the particular ability of the individuals «no had to exercise it. Lord EBRINGION—Yes, but that power cold only be exercised through the virtue of a special order, and a variety of cases might occur in which there would be neither time nor opportunity for obtaining that special order. Sir J. GRAHAM—FuII power had been given to the Commissioners. and t' , at obviated the ease. The rerrt was then adopted. RAILWAYS. Mr. MORRISON was of opinion, that, since he found the motion of which he had given notice would not be opposed, he would not be consulting the eonv.nienee of the House here he to carry out his original inten tion. trusted, however, that the Hons.- would allow him to occupy their atv , ntion for a few minites, till he stated the leading objects which he had in view. He considered that the experience of the last few years, both in this country and in oth( r coun tries of Europe, showed that the development of traffic was going on in a esy which was never before antici pated. He prop , sed also to inquire into what extent it is possible to relieve the Committees from the heavy burdi•n impo'ed tzpon them ; ac•d. lastly, into the ques tion o! granting transferable leases ; and he would ob serve, that railways had been so recently established amongst them, an•.d had progressed with such amazing rapidity, that they were scarcely able to appreeia e it.— (Hear, hear.) But in the last year they had found that in England ae well as France, in France as well as in America and the continent, traffic on railroads had increased to a remarkable degree, and in the next year it seems probgble that it will double itself.—(Hear.) There could not be a doubt about the course which the House ought to pursue. aild he thought the course pro posed would he the best for the railways. He should never advise this House to give up the ttrinciple of com petition. If the Right Hon. .•;entlernan opposite e-euld devote a little attention to the subject, he would find that something more than c ‘mpetition was wanting in railways as well as in banking. The population of France in 1842 was 167 to the square mile, in England it was 247 to the square mile. (The lion. Gentleman then read a statistical account of the comparative popu lation and commerce of the two countries.) The popu lation of the ten principal towns in England was greater than a similar number of the principal towns in France. It was well known that the lines hitherto constructed had been very prosperous, and he believed it was the general opinion that railways prospered according to the cheapness of the rates of conveyance. He was bound to state, that in his opinion, the wholematter of railways required deep consideration, and under this impression he should move that a Special Committee be appointed to inquire whether, without discouraging legitimate en terprise, conditions may not be embodied in Railway Acts better fitted than those hitherto inserted in them to promote and secure the interests of the public. Captain MANGLES thought that much as the Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the importance of railways, he ha lin a degree under-rated it. It appeared to him that the motion of the Hon. Gentleman possessed a much wider scope than he was inclined to give it. The system had hitherto been to allow the fullest scope to individual enterprise in the construction of railways. It would appear that the scope which the Hon. Gentle man gave to the present system involved erroneous principled, and that the system which was adopted in France, and in other places on the continent, was es sentially tight. It would be found after all, that the large prizes in the railway lottery were very few. There were, no doubt, some railways in this country that had realized a large profit. but looking at the whole system of railways, as far as he (Captain Mangles) could in vestigate the matter, the average profit on the whole did not exceed five and a half per cent. A great. part of the railways in this country had not been paid up. Some companies had been able, by their credit in the market, to borrow large sums of money at a low rate of interest. He believed that if the capital of all the rail roads in this country were paid up, the average would not exceed 3i or 4 per cent. It was most desirable that national enterprise in railways should be en couraged, not so much for personal profit as for public cenvenience. Look at the Blackwell Rail way, which cost in the construction more than 310 000/. per mile, and the highest return it hod ever realised was per cent. ; but was it not a useful rail way? He found that in the year 1844. that railroad had conveyed no less than 3,400,000 passengers. By re ducing the chance of winning the large prizes, the in ducement to invest capital in unpromising adventures would he destroyed. It appeared to him the most nar row policy, because you saw a certain man realising a Ito ge fortune by successful enterprise, to rush in upon that enterprise and put a stop to it. A large proportion of the fortunes which had been realised by successful enterprise still remained invested in the capital of the cliff* rent railways which had prospered. He knew also of individuals who had made fortunes in successful lines, who had been induced to invest further capital in railways for Jamaica, in Ireland, and other places. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to have forgotten all the inter mediate steps which the French Government had taken to encourage the construction of railways. He seemed to have forgotten the law of 1842, under which the French Government offered to advance one•half of the expenat of constructing the railroads. But though they offered these large inAucetnents, they did net succeed in persuading any parties to come for ward and avail themselves of the advantage. Up to the present time there was a total of 5.981 miles of railway either making or made, or about to be cer t . structed. This was owing to enterprise being unfettered, which was what the Hon. Gentleman found fault with. The result in France, vt here the Government bad inter fered, was that at the present time the total amount of length of railway did not exceed 376 miles. Take this, and compare it with the amount in England to 1844, viz., 2,264 miles. The Hon. Gentleman had dwelt at some length on the advantage derived from the cheap ness of the fares on French railroads ; but if we had proceeded on the French system, not one tithe of the railways which eere now in existence, and which owed their origin to private enterprise, would have been con etructed. We had open communication with nearly every part of England—with Exeter,. with Carlisle, in 13 . 11 • iof rotte 4ll Derby. Brighton, and with Norwich, and we shell sons with rot hiving hretignt , testes , p , have a coast line completed. Cooly the Mon. Gentle- 'in inquiry 11 , , ( r Leboactree ) thought his w e n , man calculate the profit which had ',coved to the mer- Friend had'exerosed eetust it en den in taking t' chents and manufacturers connected with those placers, course which he had. adopted. . The Urns. Memoir o f and compare the result with the profits that had arisen Sunderland (Mr. I Jude n) had talked about a bd`s ch ° l e to the merchants and traders in Marseilles, and faith, but he (Mr. Labouchere) denied that there was , other places in France, which were anprovided •be any breach of faith in adopting the recoramenda tie l: with railway communication. It appeared to him " ;of his Hon. Friend. He should censider that any s•,a, be seething the kid in its mother's milk." Our very van:ae to the country would be toi dearly bougL", Success was urged against us as a reason why we if purchased at the expense of the good faith of rial', ll l l should prefer the French system in conducting our ment. To this motion he should give his most cose c . railways. The French people had bought up the rail- support. B.•fore he sat down, however , he could fla t roads from the English capitalists, and they had been help adverting to an incident which had occurred tt!, obliged to pay a very considerable sum as a premium to evening, and which showed the value of Parliament teg their superior industry. The Hon. Gentleman disclaimed terfering in these matters. The Hon. Member !,'„ any intention of paying the national debt by the course Guildford (Mr. Mangles), who was a director ate, which be proposed, but he certainly argued that he London and Birmingham Company, had that evenly !' could. Now, his views of paying that debt were very stated that that Company intended very much to retbar s different from.his. He did believe that by wise mea - their fares—in fact they intended to introduce a clause 70 sures, which would lead to the increase of enterprise, their Bills of this session greatly reduc ng their p aside' the national debt would be by their grand childr e n fares. This showe how important it wa s for P, easily coped with, and they would think no mor e o f . it ment not entirely to leave these companies to theinseiv.esse than they did, at the present time, of the national d e bt Mr. MANGLES explained he had stated that ts, which existed, when compared with that of the year fares were about to be reduced ; bet that cou rse was ?: 1783, which amounted to 140,000.000/.—(Hear.) He - was about to be taken - n cons• quence of the mot ion of t°: of opinion, that any attempt of the Government to inter- Hon. Member fry Inverness, or in consequence of ow fare would prevent private enterprise, and he considered proceedings in Patna:neut. that the companies would reduce` their fares to a far Mr. LABOUCHERE continued. He wished W.l lower amount than any legislative enactment would curl - a few words with respect to the sub.) , ct which had Dew pel them. The Birmingham Company had, in the Bill brought under consideration by the Hon. Mea bla which they sought for their amalgation, voluntarily for Sheffie!d, whiith vies, whether it was desirt c e bound themselves to carry first - class passengers for two - to interfere in sn extraordinary manner to 0 : - 5 . 0 pence a mile, second-class for three halfpence, and third - the application of cep tel to railway enterpril class for a penny. during the present sessi- l e to prevent any irduriou s lt Mr. HUDSON wished to know whether they would suit which such excess in the application of capttelo l upt . • carry coal ?—(Laughter.) produce in the public interests. That w as a grave(' t he Captain Captain MANGLES—He was not able to s--y whe- win indeed. When the question was brought before the ther they would do so to Newcastle—(Herr, hear, and House some time ago. by the Right Hon. Geetlems n y laughter)—but he did believe a great reduction would First Lord of the Treasury, he (Mr. Labouchere) s e take place without any legislative interference, and to Lured at that time to express an iminiole that it anY ee e this principle of notointerierence he had been always of so unusual a character were taken, it shoal be q e t accustomed to attribute the prosperity of Ens land. the recommendation of her Majesty's Government, acho Mr. PARKER observed that he wished to ask the they had duly weighed all the consequences of ° v ele G o vernment whether they were prepared to plunge at step. .On the appointment of that Committee en bet, once into an increased expenditure, being pledged to a ways of which he had the honour of being antea%en very serious one already. When the session com- the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel), and the h menced there was a very general impression that some Lord the Secretary for Ireland, led him into the i roe course would be taken by the House with reference to pression that it was the intention of the Goverhinesera railways, but nothing had as yet been done. The propose some limitation. It was true that the Goof Honourable Member for Sunderland said that on the ment laid before the Committee a classification °, st greater number of Bills the deposits would not be paid, railway Bills of the present session. After looklest and that consequently they would be thrown out on the that classification, he confess, d that it would b e c ot standing orders; nut what was the act? Up to March the oit fi cult to decide where the limitation should P r ies 17th, 302 railway Bills had passed through that ordeal, As to the question of limitation, the Committee 'oj. and 140 were shout appearing before it on petition, and to the decision that i would net become them to °e a .. the whole number rjected sing e the opening of the der it, unless it wss brought before them by the w;,/ session amounted to no more than eleven ; in the vernment, After waiting fir a month, the no mb ers b e o case of two of which they had reverse their the Government, who were en the Committee, to ld . t o decision. And now he• did not mean to cast any that they had no intention of raising the ques t° p ee imputation on the Committees. On the contrary, he be the Committee. He was still cf opinion that a (- 30a1 et lieved they had acted moss wisely, and not with any tee, such as that suggested by the Hon. Membe r „ s e pedantic strictness ; hut he did urge on the House the Sheffield, would he useless. The whole matter wit; o l, consideration of the amount of money necessary to com- which .alone should be considered by the Geyer" pass all these undertakings ; he would recemmend that and ought to b. bseught forward by them. bed a clause should be introduced putting back the execu• Sir G CLERK said the Right Him. Gentleuis e r et don ot these schemes, s o me for six, others for twelve, given a correct .d escription ot the proceedings o f and others for eighteen months, as it miglst seem n ces - Committee. The Governa,en: had originally in wi „ the sary. From the dissent he saw expressed by the Chancel- to adopt a plan nearly site I.r to that sugges:ed s i T ote d lor, he did not consider his proposition would be ad peed. Hon. Member fer Seetli 1 ; but a hen they r t of Last year it was stated that fifty millions had been ad- I that the number of plans deposited at the S e l l eir vanced'in railway undertakings. During last year the I ride had le en redo'"'4 h,fore the meeting of , i ' re expenditure had been as much, but there were n. • msnt by ois -a f. they did ot think to per grounds whatever for supposing that they would be act- then suffielent caw,• rel. interference. The D er r ing is, confermity wah the interests of the publics by originally upwards. or 800, but they had be' to oF going on with a aim-liar annual expenditure. That thee duced to abour. 440. and these included Bills r he se. of the subject was ably adv. cated by an authority widah gamerien , and several Bills, were for the same r:e.,holo every man in that House would respect, except th- The Classification Committee ad eomptised thee Noble L.ad, any' those who surrounded him—he meant of the railways in fifty-six groups. He shoe' the Economist He would nut, however, trespass longer support to the motion of tee lien. Member ter on the House. He had no wish to three any obstruction He did believe that the averags amount of rett' r s oo in the way. or to propose any amendment to the motion, not realise more than from five at d a quarter to 11;fiees but he would inculcate in the Chenceder of the Exehe- a half per cent. upon ,he capital. But hen tats „ qaer the propriety of taking the observations he had considered that the most easy modes of con'13:1;1110 made into hie most actions attentive consideration ; and, tion in this colliery we • e likely to be carried (" 5 ., ii. 4" if he saw fie after that deliberation to concur with him, extent as to supers , d • all other moth s cenitnn v e le t he that he would adopt such measures for the limitation of it did become the duty of the Legislature ti" . " to e' these schemes as might be considered necessary and ad matter seriously into consideration, with a vi e ' v ld t vantageous to the public interests.—(Hear, hear.) curing the public every possible adtaettigee ` t ,j fo g , Mr. HUDSON did not think it necessary, as her Ma- hear.) In the year 1844 a Committee was, eppa' e ; 0 1 °' jesty's Government approved of the appointment of the the purpose of making inquiries, ino this sithr e a; is o j Committee, to detait, the House at any 1.-ngth. As the after a most laberii us inquiry, a Bill was broug e w e e°' Hon. Member for She ffi eld. however, had alluded to a this House for the purpose of limiting. the P ° ••,,its! former speech which he bad made on the subject, he railway companies ; an.l after a great seal of eit l e sieL; would trouble the House with a very few observations. the Bill was carried. It h wever, be eaw i el What he then said was, that there were 800 schemes desirable, when a great number of railwa)s b b , ° „ t , deposited with the Board of Trade. and frem the state pa .jeeted, that a strict hal dry shou b, made„'"e i teu ment just made by the Hove Member , it appeared that actual amount of advroveg, as hick they Would v b e io. of 4 140 of these had passed the Standing Order* sSommittee. to cenfer upon the publits In speaking upon l e ) 0, The next observation he made was not as to the num- tion, he (S i r G. Cierk) did not mean to say that 'l e , ber of schemes, but to . the amount of capital embarked. support all the views of the H nourable " , p rir In reference to that, he stated that net more than a hut,- for Ineerness ; butbutte hoped he would have il! 11 03 , ( 0 ., Bred millions would be expended. New, it he r collected tunity of brit.gi. g the whole of the details of hi s 00 01 right, 0 e amount deposit , din the Bank if England was before the • 'ousts ; and he felt assured that every e P l e 10mill - ni, being theatnountiddepesit which was required would he afforded him to do so by this It-' lls ; * by the stauding orders, to guarantee the bond fide !allure when they saw the meny attempts that had bar a r: of the schemes pr. jected ; and this proved that he had not by companies to amalgamate with orb , r coniPa h n i o l tOr i over estimated that amount. He would now reply to the 111.terIlliIII'd oppoSito.ll those mpseies " s e"; what the Hee. Member for Sheffield stated in reference with frond rival Conipenies ; etid when they to the expenditure of money, which would take place in also the many, when:ages which the public "ty' ,o two or three ears. He (Mr. liudsen) alfalfa, d that. the likely to derive isy the itinsigaenetion of ether hn'olS sum was large, but, as be stair d before , they should erder to brine a long litre under One 11:V.InagUlt",ollt r caresully ex-,mine int., that expenditure. Mote 'ban the Government should take care tha: ac- sof il one-fifth of that amount went tram the shareholders to amouet of advantage. in other roe:texts ouievote the pockets of the landowners—it was a mere transfer cured to the public therm fore, trust from the capitalist to the landowner. He bad carefully result of the prepileed regulations would tie t° 'lO7 con adered tile subject himself, and he had consulted as advantageous to the o üblic as that would be e :Ff with some others, well able to form an opinion upon it, would be likely to result from that inteuded by ti` ' the result of which bad been that he became more - and minglaam Grand Jurctien. le e more confirmed in the accuracy of hose opinions, In Mr. HATTER said that, year after year, 1 3 ' 114 4 mine line of railieay, a here the expenditure bed been moved for, which so continually had the effect, d , ' l4 45,000/ per mile, the sum which went to the land- doing what had been done h. fore, that it war• v e ; se owners was (as we understood) 29.000/. In the Midland fieult fur Hon. Members te knew what ° e 'er ° oi l Rail Way, where from 60,000/. to 70,000/. was expended. actually about. New, he would ask what et 0 ,11 1,0 6,0001. went from the shareholders. An • ther sum of grounds upon which the Hon. M-mbsr fer Invr• fn t ,,,t 5,000,0001. would be paid for royalties, timber, &c. founded his motion He said he i conce;sed te eth 'Ten there might be a - decrease ef from two to three public were net yet sufficiently rote cted, "Lie, millions in tee poor-rates, in consequence of the employ- engaged in railway projects made enormous Pro' o bje 6o went which the expeeditUre would give. Seven to nine Committee was appointed to inquire into t hi. „, million- more would be given to labourers, who would and they made a report as to the results . f rie be pretitebly employed. There would thus be expended in the year 1832, arid two or three f .1100itto o f fifty millions, whien would go directly into the labour The Hon. Member then refesred to the apeen`r e eer s .e l market, or to those connected with the land through report, by which he said it appeared that the s which the railways would pass. About twenty yeare railways realised a dividend of net more 'il" no t d i ago from eighty to leery nations wen enrually raised per cent. There wes another point n' upe whi r o ilsie from the tax,tion of the country, ant s surely t o were word had been said, namely, the taxes pd Tw o r now in a better condition to bear a drain neon their re- to Government, which ameuteed te 5 per ten ' sources timn they were then. The fourtees milliens, gross r ceipts ..f all radways, from whies the rail 'et which was,the amount of the expenditure of 1844, had rived a certain amount if benefit. Whe t e a - 4 been expeeded ; the sum of fifty teilliebs, tee ainount of amount to in the aggregate ? He wmild " 8 .0 the bill. for 1845, was in process of expenditure ; and House to judge, by instancing the case of an i e .e ie fi l' o t from two hundred t o three hundred miles of those lines railway. In the year 1839, the tax of this ue e - e oll e it where be was director would be open in August, or paid by the Gr. at Wester', Railway ConsPe n) : o 050 1 some time in autumn m i xt . The oriole of the capital to 22.222/. Its the !tetra allawing, the blip' , !C a t; would thus come into ..peratien, and h.- felt satisfied each year ; but th e year 1845, the suns P al eor t ei that no embarrassment would ire telt is ot the employ- it en: any same as a tax to Gocer: moot rf at ment of any ca itat which wed.' h- exeelided, provided it and yet it had been saam l that rhos companie s e' was properly invested That was the most, important no benefit upon the pub ic. Then there were t matter which they ought to consider, ea; her than the rates, and county rates, and ether taxes of thig one ~600 propriety of considering whether they should put a tem ; of these taxes the Great Western -eser w roel • limit to the power, the wealth, or the enterprise of this 60,0001. in one year, le sides ocher taxes of e a l ' oe . 7 l ) , country. He assts,ws quite satesfi d that no alarm whatever which no other class of property . paid. The h " . „ - tri t) .r. we be felt at the income watch was, annually received from rail truck system. Well, in Belli urn the railvre) et ways, he considered that they would have les- , grounds taxes of any sera a din France they were I .7 Y OPP e t for apprehension. That amount had been nc e .•tly seve . fr e e f rom taitatien, or, at least, a rail road Pt' pr - o p ral millions a year, or 140.0001.- a -week. -Tee - actual same amount of tax as any other road, and t u ,,,'‘,o lll e o sum at -present was 120,0001.; but he considered, fr om direct tax to the G o v e r n m en t s .Now, he r rsa"th! the increasing prosperity, they mi g ht s a f e ly ca l cu l ate on w hi c h was t h e b est system o f t h e two ? an bees tr o sl. the 20,000/. Th en, as to th e r a il wa y s f rom w hi c h i n- li ne , a f ter an ex i stenee o f t hi rty - seven y e ars, the 3a t i t s come would be de r ivabl e d ur i ng t h e present year, h o premerte of the Government. Now, taking calculated the sum from eight to nine millions as the a-year paid by the Greet Western Com se p v s e n n Yi oof rs ti : , • s tr ii' i gross receipts. All that he would impress upon them vernment as a tax, that for thirty was to select suitable lines, and not expend mon y upon amount to over 3,000,000/.. and this was tlef ee co ts k r el i those which would not tend to the public good. U n d er vantages derivable to the Government of t ",„ePtr: l t',' all the circumstances, he would give a negative to the from rail-reaes, of which the Fr. nch Governi - elsal motion of the Hen. Gentleman, for he did not see what nothing. Then, with regard to branebes• possible good the Committee, if appointed, could do. He them did not pay the company for their e t ' r 10,,/pie contended that the House, from the i n fo rmat i on w h ic h least the only chance the compe n y had of If : 0 4:41 it had before it, was in a position to legisl a te on a ll was by the traffic which the m a i n li ne shoal" " oa ratlway subjects; and he could not. therefore, see the them. On those grounds then he would e all e r i s eti'yl propriety of appointing a Committee. Had the Hen. M e m- present system was the best th at could be ee. ber brought forward a Bill upon the subject inste a d of therefore, he would be sor r y th a t a Cotureit'''s seP preposing a Committee, he would have been pr e p a r e d granted 0 disturb it. te bet tiO °' to state definitely his views upon the subject, but as he Iserd EBRINGTON said that the Hon. had Hot chosen to take that course he considered that had just sat down_ omitted to state that th e ,„sils;O, the appointment of a Committee was mere waste of time, vernment had the advan'age of having their b labs ' 1 0 0. ' and could nut teed to the public advantage. A Coin- mitted gratuitously by the railways. wh ee giti e LV inittee had formerly sat twenty-one da, s upon the Ebringters) thought gave a very fine set 0 : 0 , 10 .ier", subject, and, after an examination of twenty six wit- French companies not paying a tax to their ' t ea %re" nesses, a Bill was brought forward and passed the House Arid as to what had been said about the e e te° , o . for the future regueition of railway business. He dep loyment given by railways, although tlieg•eteede precated, however, this constant interference with rail- were paid high wages, their wages wer e - 00 1 A ways. The Hen. Member for Inverness bad stated while they bore no proportion to the low ra ~,e1 nothing that they did not know well the last time they pa'd to the neighbouring agricultural labou r ! pte.lieer • legislated upon the subject; and, as the subj. ct was then Mr. AGLIUNBY said that the railwe-r ee edi t settled by a compromise, he thought that for the deserved great thanks for the generous e a t . , 1 01 0 :/e; next seven years they would have had some security money that they had engaged in • but at l e reil t ptir a . for their interests.—(Laughter.) According to no person could doubt that they ' had not ;n ot ed!" a statement made in a railway paper, it appeared that fives in such outlay. However, he g houl % gb• r o t F this sum of 67,283,0001. bad been already- expended on the public, and also the Hors Gentleman , re sult railways. This was an immense amount of money to be trees that were likely to accrue from th e embarked in any enterprise, and he protested against motion. tent f e e e any Hon. Gentleman coming down to that House, aft er Mr. ENTWISLE would merely Cosi est such an amount had been expended, and spe cu l a ti ng — with making a sugge s ti on th a t h a d long " — seil e s ee ne ae (Laughter)—upon its regulation. Now wh a t was th e mind. He could n o t d e ny t h a t it was in 11 - 0 0Se._. 8 0 amount of interest which many of these lines had paid? the system of legislation pursued by tha t e pter eel eat i ii Nine of them paid less than 5 per cent., and four of present amount of speculation in raill e e l ea ply; l' a t them paid from 5 to 6 per cent.. The Hon. Gentle- toted ; and had a more judicious course u`,s'eeste' e ss!'el man surely would not think that sum too large. It did ventured to state that not one-half those The Sele, 6 t not, therefore, become the Hon. Member for Sheffield to then be before them.—(Hear, hear ) ebee - ellif i ti make such vague stateme n ts with reference this ex- therefore was, that the present Committee t he g i o peediture. And 6of them paid not more than 8 per cent., some uniform description of decision ontotioeoboSie and the remaining 7 fr om 9to 10 per cent. They mi g ht go and then the same amount of wild el' ec eber e e on with these alarms, as there were some gentlemen who not exist. With that view he shout;ly o fvs_ . t e Sii! appear e d to think that their property was never secure be some Preliminary trbunal estalatheo; otos o et e unless the House was sitting—(Laughter)—but if the end to such speculation. He did not _, ° c es t o, Hon. Gentleman instead of exciting these apprehensions, that the H . use should give up its jurise l d eeisie" „ s e would leave legislative subjects to more able hands, he some tribunal possessing an uniformity of ww would consult his own ease and the interests of the pub- be estaaliehed.—(Hear, hear.) 0 6 1 ; f e n his t o I. lie for whom he expressed so much concern; at any rate Mr. HUME felt bound to exprea te e Sled he ahead not interfere with what had been granted to that the Government should have cons ° ale 1,09 1 them b successive Acts of Parliament. pointment of the Committee move d for' ty e eo , r e Mr. LABOUCHERE said that he would, in the first beneficial the lines of railway might bactLeh 1:0 t o r, place, say a few words on the question proposed by the. fore to the public, they certainly wer e e,, e id vantageous to the shareholders. Tneg iv ?P er e 30 1, Hon. Member for Inverness. The Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down seemed to be of opinion that no one dence from otter countries, from Frahee the i l'e c 4 o ,o was au competent to view the subject as one who had that by the system which they been . extensively engaged in the railway . system. He aloha enabled to pay a large per cente,geirceerr4ol adopted,, see,e.(lo, admitted that there were circumstances in the present out also to contribute materially to '.he ne ope` e s e s' e a system of railways which required the serious considers- national debt. Now, in his opint esa b e , ,,( 11 ,0 1 tion of the Legislature. Gentlemen had said that they were adopted inthis country ,';hey could e e b,r. 00 0 ought not to interfere with the good old English prin- to pay off a large portion of their national cola fi d ciple of allowing capital to take its own way. He ad- hear.) He was of opinieen that no barl e y re . .01,°, ° . 11 mitted that that was a good principle, but was there inquiry. He was as mach opposed el. It eir e e e tleir° nothing more than the employment of capital to be con- breach of faith with thee public, but he: -.4 0 ,, 6, 0 ,1 of sidered in this matter? They mast tote into their con- to give his support tie the motion of th , ) sideration that the whole of the passengers and goods for a Committee ; and he hoped the inci de sice ils of;ti traffic of the country' was not left in the hands of two conducted with' all fairness, and with b 7 ee tel s e or three companies, Is w as this that rendered the ees. nish all information possible ou the subl et b t e elO fi ployment of capital in railways different fr om its em- Mr. P. STEW ART would admit that s old% se ployment in other ways. The Hon, Member for Sun- -not be too' cautious in proceeding on the w , sa. derland bad taunted big He Friend - (Mr. Morrison) it, but at the name time he felt butt O W