The Sun. — London, England, 1837-02-09 00:00:00

r the purpose of assisting such poor men as were incarce rated for tithes, who were committed to prison on illegal grc nods, ne Lord Plunket had lately decided—it was for this pv epose the Assoeiation first determined to collect small sums al money a, and. Mr. Pigott, the gentleman so calumniated last 'night, only person who opposed it, a gentleman whose conduct nt the late Longford electien drew commendation even froml:ts enemies. The Association was calle d a convention. I :Vhy, even that House owed its existence'and authority to con veralions—the King owed his Crown to conventions. Wererd t' e cre not conventions in Ireland in 1782, of which Lo loon re and other distinguished men were members? It 'was idle to say such conventions were illegal. It was said the Association by the resolution they came to had outlawed a Noble and Learned Lo rd. Was not Dr. Lucas outlawed in Ireland, and Mr. Wilke in England, for supporting the liber ties of the country ? If the Association outlawed any person they took care to have some just cause for it. The Learned Sergeant (Jackson) attacked a host of pe r s ons last ni g ht (the recut Member gave the names), and among the rest Lady llulgrave. They had fought the battle at the registry, as the Right Hon. Baronet recommended, and fought it suc cessfully. He could tell the House that the present Member for Drogheda would not be returned again, that the Member for Carlow might take his leave. They had been also suc cessful in the registries at Athlone, Belfast, and Sligo. The city of Dublin was not certain, but the county of LongfOril was settled, and they would return two for the county of Car kw. Mr. Yigors must come in, and that, too, without a struggle. In the county of Donegal they were certain at least of one. The county of Cork was safe for one Member s but as to Monaghan and Cavan 'no could say nothing positx:e as yet. The Queen's County was certain. With respect to Bandon, the result depended upon one, so that the Learned Sergeant (Sergeant Jackson) was hanging between heaven and earth. On the whole they would gain fifteen. votes, which were equal to thirty. They had a majority of fib before : they would after the next election have a majority of from 110 to 130. The society would &se olve itself when justice wasdone to Ireland, but never till they had acquired equal rights with the other subjets of the empi re. Mr. LEFROY could as, ore the Hon. Gentleman that he was mistaken in his calculai .ions, and would find but a small account of his long list 'a i any succeeding Parliament. He had been appealed to with regard to his opinion as to the le gality of this Association.. He entirely a g reed with his Hon. and Learned Friend (S ergeantJackson)that it was an illegal assembly. It was obvi , usly united to oppose the law and de feat the rights of prop'arty. The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland was fond of romancing, and, in consequence of this propensity. after his wild tour of the west opened the prison doors of Ire land, thereby, in his •ovisdom, substituting for the wisdom of the Judges the opinions of the gaolers and the opinions of his owr private secretary fc,r those of the Secretary for Ireland. With one who thus obvn.ned the law it was impossible to think that the Noble Lord oppo site could deem it an honour to be associated. He had one ser'nus charge to make against the Lord Lieute nant, which, if be could not support, he deserved to be co vered with shame. The Lord Lieutenant had been guilty of setting aside tin nine instances gentlemen perfectly competent to fill the vifice of high sheriff—men who had been approved by the Judges of the land, and others substituted in their stead. The practice in Ireland for 20 years was that sheriff, should be appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, on the recom mendation of county Members who supported the Govern ment. In June, 1816, Sir J. Newport pointed this out as a great political evil, and as calculated to poison justice at its verb source. The Right Hon. .Member for Tamworth, then Se cretary for Ireland, admitted the evil, and pledged himself that Ireland should be subjected to the same system which was acted upon in England, namely, that the going Judges o: Assize should make out a list which should afterwards be sub jected to the twelve judges and the Lord Chancellor; and that out of these the Lord Lieutenant should make his selection. Lord Plunket who was then in this HOLM'. on On same side with Sir John Newport, admitted the advantage which this plan would confer upon Ireland. The plan win adopted, and, since then, with but one exception, was acted upon by every Lord Lieutenant, whether Whig, Tory, oe mixed, until last year. Last year a return was made bt the Judges, which had been scrutinised in the usual man ner. Lord Mulgrave thought fit to pass by this list in nini instances, and to substitute others instead of any of the twenty seven gentlemen who had been recommended. It would Le well to know the grounds upon which Lord Mulgrave de parted from a rule which Lord Plunket bad declared would be so beneficial to Ireland—(Hear)—and reverted to a system which, according to Sir J. Newport, poisoned the fountains of justice at its very source. A charge had been made against Lord Mulgrave, which he took his place in the House of Lords for one night to answer. The charge was made by e Mr. Leigh, who, being appointed to the office of High She riff, and being notified to that effect, was, when he came ti the Castle, told to go back, as his appointment was not to be confirmed. Mr. Leigh petitioned the House of Lords, stat ing the circumstance. Lord Mulgrave admitted the charge. and, throwing himself on the clemency of the House, stated. in explanation, that he had been informed that Mr. Leigh Via= a member of an Orange lodge. The rule which his Lordship laid down for himself when going to Ireland was that hr would not appoint any person to any office who belonged tc secret and exclusive political societies. This guarded and critically worded rule opened a door wide enough for alt those belonging to the National Association. In the case of Mr. Leigh, however, Lord Mulgrave admitted that he had been misinformed, and that gentleman had been appointee High Sheriff this year. This whispering of Mr. Leigh ou of his office at the suggestion of the Solicitor General showed how mischievous the principle was. He thought that the Lord Lieutenant had acted in such a manner a, to create s doubt of the impartiality of the administration of justice le Ireland.—(Cheers.) Mr.. WA KLEY deprecated the irregularity which had in troduced as the leading, subject of the debate a matter wholly incidental, and had left the real question—that of the right of the Irish people to Municipal Corporations—comparativel) untouched.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that the fault had ori ginated on that (the Ministerial) side of the House, yet he net the less condemned it.—(Hear, hear.) To come to the real question before the House—the Municipal Corporations of Ire land. One expres,ion that had fallen from the Hon. Member fir Bradford required notice. That Hon. Member had said that. if the people of Ireland were of the same description with :lir people of England and Scotland, he would not desire to refute them the enjoyment of municipal privileges. Now. much hat' been said of certain expressions used in the other House, bug could anything be more offensive to the whole Irish native than those words of the Hon. Member? What did the word " description" mean ? The Hon. Member would of course admit that in physical constitution and moral oblieatioes the people of Ireland bore some resemblance to the English anti Scotch, that they belonged to the same class of animal beings that the babes of Leland sucked their nutriment from tic same source as those of England, that they belonged to the class marihuana. Mr. HARDY explained that he had said, " if their conduct was the same." Conduct was the word be uied. Mr. WAKLEY— As the Hon. Member disavowed the ex pression, he ( Mr. Wakley) was bound to intice it no fin-the.% but he had taken down the words when used. He was very glad the Hon. Gentleman had not meant to use them. If the Irish people were not to have Municipal Corporations, why was the Emancipation Bill passed ? The avowed object of that mea sure was to relieve the Irish Roman Catholics from civil and religious disebilite. That Bin admitted the gentry of Ireland to Parliament—n . hy should they hesitate to allow to the citi zens of Ireland the management of their own affairs ? The reason was that they Wera Roman Catholics, and n) other. —( Hear, hear.) If Mu:deipal Reform were denied, then was the Emancipation Act ono of the groe'est frauds ever imposed on a nation.—( Hear.) He called on the Right Hon. Baronet opposite to shake off the lethargy that bad latterly enchained him, to throw off the shackles that allied him to a bigotted fac tion, and to act again on the principle of his celebrated decla ration in 1829, when he said that, " Although he had all elong opposed Catholic Emancipation, he would now yield to the moral necessity which demanded it." Let him now again yield to moral necessity. That state of things had again - arisen. The people of Ireland bad, with one voice, declared that they looked for the full advantages of Emancipation. Mr. WEST—As one of the persons who took a part in the proceedings of the Protestant meeting in Dublin, and who en tirely concurred in every resolution passed at that meeting, he hoped he might presume to address some observations to the House.—(Hear, hear.) The course which the debate had taken had, whether intended or not, involved him in some dif ficAty. The Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home De partment had come down to the House a few nights ago, and in announcing his intention to introduce a very important measure had also expressed his determination to enter upon the subject of the resolutions passed at the Dublin meeting ; and to open and discuss the whole subject of his Majesty's Government in Ireland.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Lord kept his word. Of a speech of great ability and consi derable length, three-fourths were devoted to the motives and insignificance of that meeting.—(Hear, hear.) Then came the reply of his Hon. and Learned Friend. He knew not to what Hon. Gentleman on the opposite side the duty of answering that speech was allotted— ( Cheers)—for that duty was still to be performed ;—(Loud cheers)—that eloquent and admirable speech, which the candour even of his adver saries would admit presented a powerful case in defence of his friends, and a strong inculpation of the measures of his opponents.--( Hear, bear.) In this situation the Hon. Mem ber for Bath cam e forward, and undertook to deliver a very eloquent lecture to the Representatives from Ireland at both aides of the House--(Laughter)—not only upon the unfitness of their conduct to the usages of Parliament, but also upon the grace and propriety of their gesticulation. —( Much laughter.) And he would say that, as a moral teacher or an instructor in those graces that ought to accom pany public speaking, the: sentiments and manner of the Hon. Gentleman were quite worthy of the character he had as sumed.—( Cheers.) But he (Mr. West) could not follow the Hon. Member. He must rather endeavour to pursue the Noble Lord. And first, was anything ever heard like the at tempt made to give an answer to the speech of his Hon. and Learned Friend ?—( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) Of all the charges and all the proofs adduced by him, there was no allusion made in the reply of the Hon. and Learned Mem ber for Kilkenny except upon t h ree points—the appointment of Mr. Cassidy, the case of Carter, and the conduct of Lord Mulgrave in discharging the gaols of Ireland—(Cheers)—and what was the answer to these cases? That the Hon. and Learned Member had not been aware of the conviction of Mr. Cassidy for resisting the execution of the law, and suspected it was not true ; whereas an Hon. Member, the son of the Lord Lieutenant of the county, was present to vouch the fact, and therefore there was no doubt upon that subject. Then, as to Carter's case, no personal attack was made or intended against Mr. O'Loghlen.—(f, Hear," from Sergeant Jackson.) The inaccuracy discovered with so much profession of triumph in the Hon. and Learned Sergeant's speech was, that, in a case where there were three abortive trials, the first, which might have gone off, as it did, by an accident, took place when Mr. THE SUN, Lib - 1'41)0N, THURSDAY,: FEBRUARY 9, 1837. ..---.--- Blackburne, not Mr. O'Loghlen, was Attorney-Generals— (6‘ Hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Now he was assursed it was neither—( Hear, hear)—that it was Mr. Perri o.— (Laughter.) But was it of the slightest consequence to the case which it was ?—( Cheers.) The objection was thi'.: that by the innovations in doctrine and practice by the present Go vernment a horrible crime had escaped detection, r ai d punish ment, and a notorious convict was not prevented, 'from placing himself upon the Jury at the second trial, str,d that by that means no verdict was had. And lastly, what answer was given respecting the novel practice of di'asharging the gaols ? Au appeal to the character of Hon. G.e.ntlemen at his ( Me. West's) side of the House, to know - "healer, as men of feel ing, they could find fault with Lord, Mulgrave for an excess of clemency ?—(Laughter and (;seera.) The Noble Lord (Cle ments) here again took a Different ground of defence, and seemed to justify the prac dee, inasmuch as the offences were insignificant, and the me•seure itself had, in fact, acted bene ficially.—( Laughter.) Ciut there were some gentlemen in Ireland who certainly thought very differently both of the motives and the re sults of a proceeding unparalleled in the history of ciaril proceedings in these countries. — (Loud cheering.) He would read two letters upon the sub ject, written froirs different counties by gentlemen of honour and respectabil'asy, with whom he was acquainted.—The Hon ourable awl - .Learned Gentleman then read the letter. His Excellency spent two hours in Mullingar ; before he departed he discharged nineteen prisoners. Suppose he had given the ailaole of the two hours to that alone—what sort of examina tion could he have to make into the merits and details of nine teen cases where there had been convictions? —( Loud cheers. ) But to the Judges this conduct was worst of all. Hitherto it had been deemed of some consequence in Ireland to pre serve in the minds of the lower classes a reverence and respect for those who administered the law and presided in its Courts of Justice.—( Hear, hear, hear. )—lt was a beneficial thing that it should be believed and known, as it was, that mercy as well as justice was to reach the offender through their interference. Bound by their sense of duty, with such men an obligation as sacred as their oath, to do that which was right, and to do it mercifully, they had awarded the sen tences and punishments assigned by the law to such offences ;, but the Lord Lieutenant not only gave the impression that they were wrong—that in the exercise of their office they amt.° tyrannical, but he appeared to add the flagitious insult which he (Mr. West) could never believe was intentional by any British nobleman, of substituting for the bearer of the King's commission in the administration of justice as well as mercy— (Loud cheering)—the keeper of the common gaol—( Great cheering)—to be the medium through which the merits of these malefactors were to be ascertained, and the prerogative of mercy to be administered.—(Great and continued cheer ing.) Did he exaggerate ? Look to Colonel Yorke's letter to the gaoler of Lifford—to another respecting Meath gaol, from which 21 persons were discharged. It was the same at Cork, the same at Tralee ; and the only impartiality and jus tice which ho (Mr. West) could see in the transaction was, that every county was to have its due proportion of vagabonds scattered over it—(Tremendous cheers)—and that there should be no county in which the Judges should not be impar tially insulted.—(Cheering from the Opposition.) And with respect to the prisoners themselves, if entitled to a par don they ought to have bad it properly. There was no man who was not bound by many obligations to society, and it might not only he important to the prisoner to have the legal consequences of his conviction completely removed, but there were many cases in which the public might have an interest in it. Take him as a witness, for example. The public might have an interest in his testimony—the conviction rendered him incompetent. At common law his pardon must have been under the Great Seal ; but a late statute had given a shorter process of restoring the competency by warrant, under the sign manual of the Lord Lieutenant, backed by his Secretary.— ( Hear, bear.) Now he (Mr. West) should feel exceedingly glad to know in what manner any of the very able lawyers of the Association would set about pleading such a pardon as this, given in the many cases of felony and misdemeanor with which the several lists abounded.—( Laughter and cheers.) That the Earl of Alulgrave being the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland came upon such a day, in a very handsome cap and feather— ( Laughter and cheering)—presented himself at the door of the gaol of Sligo—( Loud laughter)—and then ,and there ordered the gaoler, who neither knew the Lord Lieutenant, nor had any business to know him—(Laughter)—to let loose the particular offender-4 Laughter)-- which the gaoler did accordingly, without anv further warraut.—(Cheers.) There were precedents enough to be found of proper warrants for the purpose. One, and not a very distant one, in po'nt of time would be mentioned by a Learned and Hon. Friend ; but be ( Mr. West) would venture to furnish another to the official and Hon. Gentleman at the other side, which might be useful hereafter. In the list of malefactors discharged from Sligo gaol he perceived the name of one who had been sentenced to nine months' imprisonment for an assault, with intent to commit a rape. Something of a similar offence occurred in the reign of James 1., and a pardon was granted; and the form of the warrant conveying the pardon was preserved ; it would be found in the 21 vol. State Trials, 739, and a portion of it was in these terms : " THE PARDON OF SIR ECSTACE METE'. " James Rex.—Omnibus ad quos do salutem—Seiatis, quod nos de gratia more spcciali, ac excerta scientia-et mero motu nostris, pardonavimus, reraisimus, et rclaxavimirs, ac per pro', sentes, pro nobis, limredibus et suceessoribus nostris pardons mus, remittimus et relaxarnus, Eustatio Harte, de villa do Southampton, militi, omnia, et singula crirnina et offensas adulterii, fornicationis, et incontinentim, quoscunque, per ipsum Eustatium liarte cum aliqua muliere, sive aliquibus mulierihna, ante datam presentiurn. nieunque, quando eunque, quornodocunque, et qualitereunque, facts commissa, vel perpetrata." —(The reading of this passage excited a continued and un controllable laughter in the House.) But, as the law allows the King to annex any condition to his grant of a pardon, King James took care to annex a condition here. It will be found, on a reference to the warrant, that Sir E. Harte was to commit no more offences of the same kind.--.( Continued laughter.) But times were changed. The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland took no such precaution—(Great laughter and cheers)—and the Sligo effendcr had gene back to society in capacitated in his civil rights—incompetent to give testimony in a court of j:istiee—and, through the excessive clemency of Lord Alulgrave, competent to nothing but the unlimited com mission of such offences as it might be his will and pleasure hereafter to indulge in.—( Continued laughter and cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to the appointment of Mr. Pigott, of whose talents he spoke very highly, and al luded to the fact of his office having been filled by Mr. Ser rTeant Greene, on whom he pronounced a warm culogium. r He said that there was no man of his profession whose ta lents, learning, and character could give the dcci.ions of the Government a greater weight, or ensure more confidence amongst the gentleman of the country. He had been promoted by the Whigs therwelves, and by their ap pointment held his present rank. Yet this man was re moved from his uflice, and ?dr. Pigott now succeeded him. This involved the question of the legality of this Association. His opinion concurred with that expressed by his Friend.; who had gone before ; but he could give an opinion on this point which the House would hear with more pleasure than anything he could present—the . opinion of Mr. Canning upon an Association the same in everything but the name. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then read Mr. Canning's opinion on the illegality of the Catholic Association.--( Loud cheers.) One power this new Association possessed was not known to the old—the power of appointing magistrates.—( Loud cheers.) He then adverted to the dismissal of Colonel Butler and other gentlemen, by Lord Plunket, from the magistracy, for presiding at anti-tithe meetings, and the disinclination of his Lordship to reinstate them. But the Association was formed, and an lion. Member of this House expressed himself strongly upon that subject. It was enough for him to s ay that Colonel Butler was now reinstated and in the Commission of the Peace. The result of all this was natural enough. The Gazelle of last year contained 290 proclamations for great outrages, 71 of which were cases of murder; in the first month of the present year, 28 proclama tions and 12 cases of murder. This was the diminution of strerely direceed that the Cr own solicitor should not set aside a juror merely on account of lily religious or political opinions." Sir, I 'can easily imagine aat this general rule (like all ge neral rules) may be attenz. , aid with partial and occasional in convenience. But it is a matte rof great gratification to find that upon the whole Chia rirl.e is not only right in prin ciple, but has been successful 'in practice. Another promi nent ground of complaint on tb a part of the Honourable and Learned Sergeant, met a wine Hon. Members who followed him, is the manner in which t 1 le prerogative of mercy has been exercised by the Lord Lieutet tant of Ireland, on the occasion of his inspecting the gaols of that country. Sir, it is an in convenience that when . any , ecific charge of such a nature is suddenly made, I have not the means of immediately laying my hands upon the docunter its which would enable me to answer it, when I am not accurately informed of the circum stances of the case. I do not complain of this : it is the in evitable consequence of the discussion, which I admit we on this side of the House ha Pe provoked and compelled.—( Hear, hear.) However, I will snake a. few statements with respect to the rule which I believe has guided the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Gosserntnent on this point ; and if it should be objected to theni that they are not satisfactory, I can easily obtain the meaarn of affording a fall explanation on the subject. Since his. first visit of inspection to the gaols it has been his invariable. practice also to inspect all institu tions supported by the 'public money.—( Hear, hear.) On his visits to the prisor my of Noble Friend is in the habit receiving reports on three distinct points. From the local authorities he r eceives a report on the conduct of the prisoners during the;.r confinement : from the medical men he receives a report 'ef the state of their health : from the neighbouring gen'clemen he receives a report of their previ ous character, ?Aid of the probability of their amended con duct.—(llcesr,) In the county of Tipperary, last summer, the Noble Ee:rl'vent further on this subject than he had previously gone_ It is well known that that county has the bad emi• nestee of being distinguished by outrage and disturbance. It has been intimated that the feuds and factions of the Goya.; . and the Poleens in that county have not met with sufficient discouragement from the surrounding magistrates, who have been influenced by the mistaken logic, that when parties fall upon one another they will refrain from falling on any third party.—( A laugh.) Such a supposition exhibits a great ig norance of human nature—a great ignorance of the fact that when men are accustomed to acts of violence and steeped in blood, their fury is easily turned into any new direction. Tho inhabitants of the county of Tipperary responded in a remarkable manner to an urgent admonition which the Lord-Lieutenant addressed to them on the subject ; several thousand copies of which were distribeted in the county. An Association was formed in the county for the express purpose of suppressing the outrages and disturbances com plained of. At the sessions for the county the law was administered with great vigour by Mr. lowly, the able assistant-barrister for the county. Mr. Howly absolutely rejected the system of compromise which had before been so prevalent, when the parties came before the Grand Jury. Did any improvement in the state of the county of Tipperary take place? Let the following extract from a subsequent charge of Mr.: Howly answer:—" That a great improvement has been thus brought about, appears by the official returns, which extend over a period of the last four months, during rshich the principal fairs in this county have been held, and which formed heretofore the battle-ground of the several factions.— [ Here the Learned Chairman read a return from Captain Nangle, chief Magistrate to the Cashel district, stating that 26 fairs had taken place from the 7th of January to the 26th of June, and no riots or fights occurred at them. Another return was read from the Chief Magistrate in the Nenagh dis trict, Major Carter, stating that nine principal fairs had taken place since the first of April, and no faction fights had taken place at them. .1 think I may here observe, that the law, as it at present stands, is quite sufficient to repress outrage, and punish crime, without having recourse to any new or more coercive enactments.—( Hear.) It is much better to work with those laws which are familiar and constitutional, and see whether they cannot prevail, than, without a great necessity, rely upon the application of any Act which_ although it may punish crime—yet will want that full accor /Nance and assent which yield to laws their best influence and power." I will also read a letter addressed to Mr. lowly by Mr. Yadlin, the clerk of the peace for the county of Tipperary :_ " Clonmel, Dec. 19, 1836. " My Dear Sir,—Your letter of the 16th I have been unable to answer until this day. I now forward you a return of the convictions at quarter sessions for the last three 3 ears, in which you will perceive very little difference, except in eases of bodily injury inflicted between man and man, a great in crease in larceny cases, but the affrays or riots have decreased most wonderfully, as the number of convictions for the last year do not amount to the total of either of the two preceding years, although the greater part of the convictions under this bead were of persons who ought to have been brought to trial before your appointment. I may safely say faction fights are at an end, never to revive in this county. The only way to judge of the real state of the county is by the convictions; these speak facts not subject to newspaper misrepresentation. On looking over the informations for next Cashel and Nenagh general quarter sessions, I do not find one single instance of se rious This justifies my assertion, and will, 1 hope, con vince you of the very improved state we arc now in. " Should you wish for convictions at assizes, t can procure you copies of the different rules of court for any period you wish, on my hearing frem you. " I have the honour to be, my dear Sir, your most faithful servant, " YADLIN. " John lowly, Esq., &c." Now the lion. Member fur Dublin has made an attempt to re fute the convincing part of my Noble Friend's statement, by taking the state of crime at one period only, without giving a comparative view of that subject in reference to a former period. Sir, we do say that the government of the Earl of Mulgrave in Ireland, is conducted upon upright and impartial principles, but we do not pretend, we have not the folly to imagine, that we have converted Ireland to a perfect Ireland, or to a Garden of Eden ! What is the state of the returns of the principal ounces tried at Tipperary, at Nenagh, and Cashel quarter sessions? Let the House refer to them, be cause whereas in the case quoted the returns were made up to the Ist of July I.lst, the returns to which I will now refer are made up to last December and even January. I find by the returns made by the clerk of the peace for Tipperary of the numbers of indictments in the years ending Ist Jan., 1836, and Ist Jan., 1837, that the following is the result. I will im prove upon the principle of the Hon. Member for Dublin, and I will take tic two corresponding periods. It appears, then, there were— Year ending Year ending Jan. 1, 1636. Jan. 1, 1837. For Riot 3 26 63 Assaults 194 123 Rescues. 153 57 Grievous Assaults Forcible possession .. 24 l5 _ _ I is ill now refer Co oee other county, namely, that of Kilkenny— the county the alarming state of which was the direct and im mediate cause of the Coercion Bill. Now I beg to read to the House an extract from the charge of the chairman who pre sided at the last Quarter Sessions at Kilkenny, in which he says : Gentlemen of the Grand Jury—The few observa tions which I shall have the honour to address to you, on the great and signal diminution of crime, and the improvement of the state of this county, are as gratifying to me as the facts are creditable to the county , itself. Since I had the honour to be appointed Chairman of this county, I have had, at each suc ceeding session, to congratulate you upon a sensible diminution of crime and the improvement of your social condition. On the last occasion I had the satisfaction to notice, that although the number of indictments was apparently large, amounting to one hundred and twenty-nine, yet the offences were in point of quality very trivial, and might for the most part have been disposed of at petty sessions, and not, unnecessarily, sent here for trial. But cheering as the condition of the county of Kilkenny then was, its present state is still more so ; crime having not only been diminished, but almost extin guished. In conclusion, I have again to congratulate you, gentlemen, on the peaceful state of your county, and the pleasing prospects which that state presents." It was during this progress of improvement and transition that the Lord- Lieutenant visited Tipperary gaol, and after making the most complete and diligent inquiry from the governor and deputy governor of the prison, by whom he was attended, with refe rence to the cases of these who had been convicted of light offences, and more especially of those who had been convicted of sharing in those long feuds, which bore best their confine ment ; as to the case of those whose sentences were nearest expiration, and those who came from that part of the country where the fewest commotions prevailed ; to th ese cases t h e attention of the Lord- Lieutenant, I say, was pa r ti cu l ar l y di rected, he acting upon the charges of the judges in passing the original sentences, and with reference to the effect of the exam ple to be shown, and his judgment being always d e p en d ent upon the consideration of what result a vigorous administration of justice might have on the improved state of the country. But this mode of proceeding on the part of my Noble Friend the Lord Lieutenant has either been attended with success, or it las not ; and let the House decide that point. I say, how ever, do not trust to my representations alone, but allow me to refer you to documents. I have here two letters which were intended to be private, but they are addressed to me in m y official capacity, and therefore I consider myself at perfect liberty to put the House in possession of their contents. One of these letters is from Mr. Howl}', bearing date the 27th of January, and I could not well have better testimony than this document. He observes, " The civil business of the present Session I never recollect to be so heavy, nor the Crown busi ness so light. The mercy extended by his Excellency, during his visit to this county, has fallen with a softening influence upon the popular mind, and has contributed much to the tran quillity which prevails." I lately chanced to receive a commu nication on another subject from the county surgeon O. f ,pp e _ rare, dated Clonmel, Feb. 3, 1837. He says, " My Lord,_ Having lately seen some attacks on the Government, in conse quence of the liberation of . prisoners by his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant last summer, I take the liberty of inform ing your Lordship, that out of fifty-seven prisoners dis charged from our county gaol, by the Lord Lieutenant's com mands, only one has been recommitted, though the interval that has elapsed is nearly six months. This solitary case is that of an idiot."—( Hear and laughter.) I certainly thought myself, when I first read this preliminary passage, that it did not tell much in favour of the selection of cases which had been made. But the writer adds, " This information your Lordship may rely on, as I have taken care to ascertain its ac curacy ; and, further, it has scarcely ever occurred that any such number of persons has left the gaol without some of them having been recommitted, even within a much shorter period. It is therefore quite certain that in this county his Excellency's clemency has been attended with the best effects. I have the honour to be, " Your Lordship's very obedient humble servant, " DENNIS PHELAN, " Surgeon to the County of Tipperary Gaol." Now I do not say that we have cured the evils of Ireland, but I contend that we have very much improved her social condi tion. I have here, too, another letter from a person at Tip perary (addressed to the head Commissioner of the Police) who it seems had made an application in favour of a person in whose welfare he was interested, and ho says " that the signa tures to the certificates sent might be confirmed, and that no doubt the party would prove an acquisition to the establish ment, and that the grievance of the applicant was of a new character, Tipperary being so quiet that the police had no business to do there." Now, Sir, the same causes and cir cumstances which have been so observable in the county of Tip perary have all operated in other parts of Ireland, and have led to a corresponding exercise of the prerogative of mercy on the part of the Lord Lieutenant .—( Hear, hear.) Sir, the Hon. and Learned Sergeant, the Member for Bandonbridge, quoted a case from Sligo, in which the sentence was commuted from that of death to nine months' imprisonment. This fact goes to show the circumstances under which that commutation of punishment was made, or it speaks little for the state of the law in Ireland. The Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin University stated that this case was gone through in two hours, and that it was decided upon instinct of course. This was certainly a very candid and libe ral suggestion on the part of the Learned Gentleman. I have already spoken of the laborious pains which the Lord-Lieutenant took under the circumstances; and it must be remembered that the memorials in each case were laid before him, and formed the subject of very grave delibe ration.__( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Sergeant has quoted a correspondence which took place between the private secretary of the Lord-Lieutenant and the local inspector at Lifford. The Learned Sergeant chose to put me down when I referred to this part of the subject on a former occasion ; but I hold copies of the correspondence in my land, namely, of a letter from Colonel Yorke, the Private Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant, to the Rev. Mr. Clark, the Local Inspector at Lifford.—( Hear.) And I must here declare, that with re spect to the discharge of the duties of local inspectors by the Protestant clergy, the Protestant clergy do discharge them with perfect fidelity, with great discretion, and with unremit ting zeal.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," from both sides of the House.) The Learned Sergeant has reflected with some as perity on the circumstance of the Lord-Lieutenant having desired that the proper authorities should furnish him with some of the names of the persons entitled to mercy in Lifford gaol, a gaol which is much celebrated for the excellent ma nagement which pervades its internal arrangements. In pas sing through the town on his tour it did happen that it was not in the power of the Lord-Lieutenant to visit the gaol, but he thought that he should be wanting in respect to those whose skill was so manifest, if he did not give them some opportu nity to point out such persons as they might think proper ob jects for the exercise of clemency. Now the Learned Ser geant quoted only the beginning of the correspondence in ques on, but I must carry his attention and that of the House a ,tle further. Mr. Clark says— " Lifford, Aug. 13, 1836. " Sir—Agreeably to your wish, expressed in your letter to the Governor, I have with him selected such cases as we feel ustified in recommending to his Excellency's humane consi deration. " With reference to those convicted of assault, I have not recommended any case in which there was waylaying proved, or any other circumstance of an aggravated nature. In all cases recommended, I have been influenced by a feeling of com miseration for the innocent families of those confined. " I have the honour to be, &c. &c. &c. (Signed) " E. M. CLARKE, " Loc..al Inspector and Chaplain. " Lieut.-Colonel Yorke." Colonel Yorke, in his reply, states that these cases will be considered by those to whom such cases were referred. I believe that in every case except one the list of persons committed to gaol has been forwarded to the Castle by the High Sheriff. This, however, did not occur in the case of Meath, owing to a mistake on the part of the High .She riff, which irregularity, nevertheless, has not been conti nued. Colonel Yorke says, " That the Lord Lieutenant felt himself, in cases where individuals had been accused of breaches of the Revenue-laws, strongly impressed with the conviction of enforcing the full punishment." This then led to a further correspondence, which Mr. Clarke thought it better should be published in the papers of the country,. and this was accordingly done, and the letters so published led to some severe animadversions and reflections in the Epening Mail. I will now only quote ono more docu ment, it being an answer which was written to the / ondon- Jerry Sentinel, i❑ consequence of what had appeared in the Evening Mail, which article certainly afforded and evinced a good sample of that system of misrepresemation which has obtruded itself into the Mansion-house of Dublin, and has even found its way into the Commons' House of Parliament. The article to which I refer is this : " Copy of a letter from the Rev. F. M. Clarke, Local Inspector of the gaol at Liff3rd, county Donegal, to the Edi tor of the Londonderry Sentinel:— " Six persons convicted of assault, sentenced some to six months, one to four, and four to three months' imprisonment, with ten convicted of a breach of the revenue laws, were re commended on the ground that their offences were not of an aggravated nature, that each had a large family depending on him for support, which in no degree participated in his guilt; and his absence from which, at this particular season, might prove ruinous. Of these so recommended his Excellency liberated six confined for assault, and two for illicit distillation. " The correspondent of The Mail, in his letter to which the caustic remarks on mine are appended, asks, How many . Protestants his Excellency has discharged?' and answers his own question by saying, not one.' " On this point I have to observe that, of the sixteen re commended here, three were members of the Established Church, 13 were Roman Catholics. " Of the nine discharged, four were members of the Esta blished Church, five were Roman Catholics. " I remain, &c., (Signed) "E. M. CLARKE. " Lifford, Sent. 16, 1836." Now, thi s , I uil s l say, is a good sample of stating facts spe cifically ; and with some truth the Hon. and Learned Member , for Dubliu declared he did not like adverting to facts. lam now about to speak to this dearest and most valuable exer cise of the prerogative. Ido not mean to contend, and lam sure no lion. Gentleman would, that the exercise of this privilege would establish a good system for permanent prac tical ope ra ti on ; but under the peculiar circumstances of time and country I believe it to be perfectly justifilble; and I be lieve that its exercise under the circumstances which pervaded this case was of considerable use, and that much benefit has resulted therefrom. But, Sir, severe strictures have been made upon the use which the Noble Hari, the Lord-Lieutenant, has made of the same pre rogative in former cases which have been brought before him, of prisoners who have been sentenced, and whose sentences he interfered with, the Lord-Lieutenant not having first taken the opinion of the judges. Now, I take upon myself to say, that the present Lord-Lieutenant has not been surpassed by any of his predecessors in that most laborious consideration which lie has bestowed on all the criminal cases which have been brought under his notice, and which has formed the most onerous part of his duties. I will also take upon myself to say, that it is, and always has been, his rule and practice to refer to all cases to the judge who may have presided at the trial of the prisoners, when the point turns upon the circum stances connected with the trial itself. As an instance of the way in which the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland has shown his want of respect for the authority of the judges -( I should he the last man to impugn the respect due to the character of a judge ; but I must hint that that respect ought to be reciprocal to the respect due to the representa tive of the Sovereign)—the Learned Sergeant has brought forward a case which was tried before the Chief Baron, and I owe an apology, perhaps, to the Learned Gentleman for the exclamation I made on that occasion, when I said the case had occurred last year. I did not, however, do justice to my ex clamation, because I should have said the year before last, though I do not mean to say that this would be a justification if it had occurred three years ago. But, Sir, what led to my exclamation was the fact that this charge had been already served up to us in July, 1835, on the motion of the lion. Member for Londonderry, and I thought the matter had been fully disposed of. I must say, that when I found the Learned Sergeant had bottled up this story of the Chief Baron, I was surprised. The opinion of the Lord-Lieutenant had been given to the Earl of Haddington. The Protestants, who were supposed to be the parties aggrieved, had the lighter punish ment allotted to them, whilst the Roman Catholics had the heavier. But it was after the expiration of the period of con finement extended to the Protestants that the jury unanimously came forward to petition that a similar exercise of mercy might be manifested to the Roman Catholics, they having been al ready a longer time imprisoned than the Protestants.—( Hear, hear, hear.) His Excellency took an opportunity of looking at the original notes of the case, and of considering the judge's opinion, and, thinking that a sufficient period of confinement had been allotted to both parties, he assented to the enlargement of the Roman Catholics.—( Hear, hear.) Upon that occasion, in 1835, I remember the name of the Countess of Mulgrave was brought forward for having obeyed the impulse of her gentle and charitable nature, and expressed a wish in favour of a prisoner from whose wife she had re ceived a letter--(Hear, hear, hear); and I really had hoped that her name would not again have been brought forward even to appease the dignity of my Lord Chief Barot.— ( Cheers.) But we have not yet done with the misconduct of the Government in the last year. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Donegal says that the liberation of Mr. Reynolds was a most unjustifiable step. He stated further, that not only had we committed the enormity of acting upon that oc casion without the concurrence of the Learned Judge by whom Mr. Reynolds was tried, but that we acted in direct opposition to his opinion, after it had been asked and obtained. The Hon. and Gallant Member is mistaken. We did not ask the Learned Chief Justice of the Common Pleas for his opinion as to the propriety of mitigating the sentence passed upon Mr. Reynolds ; but from what transpired through the ordinary channels of information the Lord Lieutenant felt himself called upon to ask for the notes of the trial, for the evidence taken upon the trial, and for the charge delivered by the Learned Chief Justice to the Jury. These documents, when obtained, he immediately submitted to the legal advisers of the Crown, the Attorney-General, the Solicitor-General, and the Lord Chancellor, and it was in consequence of their unanimous opi. nion, as expressed after an inspection of these documents, that the Lord Lieutenant ordered the immediate liberation of Mr. Reynolds.—( Cheers.) This happened in November, or, at the latest, December, 1835 ; yet upon this grossly unjusti able step until last night not one word has been said in either House of Parliament, either in the way of reproach to the Go vernment, or vindication of the offended dignity of the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas.—(Cheers.) Colonel CONOLLY—I beg the Noble Lord's pardon. I alluded to the subject myself not long after the transaction took place. Lord AIORPETII : I am reminded of what I had certainly at the moment forgotten. I remember that the subject was crime. Lord MORPETII then addressed the House to the follow ing effect :—Sir, I have been twitted by the Hon and Learned Member for Dublin with having taken time since the opening of the debate to prosecute my researches into the materials which I might consider it necessary to use in the course of it. It is surely no very great novelty that a person whose conduct, and the conduct of the department of Government with which he is immediately connected, are arraigned, should suspend his observations on the subject until he ascertained the bulk of the accusations which it was intended to prefer. Indeed, if I had spoken last night, I should have missed the opportunity of adverting to the lucubrations of the lion. and Learned Mem ber himself. At all events it cannot be alleged that I have taken much time to prepare my reply to the charges which have immediately followed brought against me. My Noble Friend was followed by the Hon. and Learned Sergeant, the Member for Bandon, in a speech undoubtedly distinguished by great ability, coupled, [however, with an acerbity which is but too common in the Hon. and Learned Sergeant's effusions, and which prompts him to attack the character, the honour, and even the religion of those who are opposed to him.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and " No, no.") The Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, who has also made a speech of great talert, charges this side of the House with attempting to fasten odium upon individuals, and with indulging in personal imputations. But does not the declaration of the Hon. and Learned Sergeant, the Member for Bandon, that no Member of the same profession as himself could hold office under his Majesty's present Government without degradation and dis grace, savour somewhat of personal imputation ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Did not the Hon. and Learned Sergeant's expression, when he spoke of the Protestant members of the National Association, that they were persons "calling themselves Pro testants," seem like a personal imputation ?--(Hear, hear, hear.) The first point of the attack of the Hon. and Learned Sergeant was directed against the rule established by the present Master of the Rolls in Ireland when he was Attorney- General, respecting the setting aside of jurors on criminal trials. The Hon. and Learned Sergeant admitted that this circumstance involved no imputation on the character of the Master of the Rolls, but maintained that it greatly impugned his discretion.—( Hear.) In answer to this charge I will read an extract of a letter from Mr. O'Loghlen, writ ten soon after the establishment of the rule, and giving an account of its operation :—" I observe that they allude in the address to the system of not setting aside j urors in criminal cases. If the subject shall be mentioned in Parliament, official returns (some of which were sent to the Home -office after the last circuit) will prove that the course pursued has worked well. There were more convictions under tile new system, in proportion to the number of cases tried, than under the old. It has given to the people a confidence in the administration of justice which they had not when jurors were selected by the Crown, and juries in effect packed. The rule made by him did not prevent the setting aside of any juror to whom any reasonable or fair objection could be matte, but ,> mentioned in this House, but only mentioned, I believe, be cause we on this side of the house had dared the honourable gentlemen opposite to bring the case forward if they had any complaint to make upon it.—(hear, hear.) Thus it cer tainly happened that the subject was mentioned—( A laugh)— but no motion or subsequent proceeding was founded upon it. ( Hear, hear, hear.) . The Right Honourable and Learned Member for the. University of Dublin (Mr. Shaw) has in the present debate applied himself chiefly to the subject which also engaged his eloquence at the meeting at the Mansion-house in Dublin, namely, the selection of sheriffs for 1836. This likewise appears to me to be a matter of last year. My noble friend's ( Lord John Russell's) charge against the honourable gentlemen who sat on the opposite side of the house was, that they shrunk from bringing forward in Parliament those charges which they urged wit so much vehemence in places where the Government had no power of reply.—( Hear, hear.) How does the right honourable and learned gentleman meet this? In July last the Earl of Mulgrave attended fur several suc cessive evenings in his place in the other House of Parliament, and one would have supposed that such an opportunity' of bringing him to an account for his government in Ireland would not have been lost by the Hon. Geutlemen opposite. The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman in the course of the debate on the present occasion has gone into most lengthened and laborious proofs to establish that which we never denied, namely, that in nine cases the Judges' list has been departed from and other persons substituted to fill the office of Sheriff. —( Hear, hear. )—And we gave ,the reason, the Earl of Mul grave gave the reason for so doing. The Earl of Mulgrave stated in his place in Parliament the reasons which had in duced him to put aside the recommendation of the Judges on the appointment of Sheriffs. ( Here there was an expression of doubt or dissent f, out a Member sitting on the Opposition side.) I think the Hon. Gentleman will find that the Earl of Mulgrave did on that occasion state that he had felt it to be his duty to put aside all gentlemen recommended to the (Alice of Sheriff who were in any way connected with Orange lodges —(Cheers)—or, to use hie'words, with a recent exclusive po litical society.—(Cheers.)—The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman says, with a gravity and solemnity of face which I own quite astonished me, that in May, 1836, the fact was not known that in the proceeding month of February we had in nine instances departed out of the Judges' list. Why it was as notorious as the sun at noon-day—(Hear)--the newspapers attached to the party to which the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman belongs were ringing with it " From night to morn, from morn to dewy eve." ( Hear, hear.) Yet the only charge brought forward in Par liament against the Earl of Mulgrave was, that he had im properly departed from the Judges' list in the case of Mr. Leigh. Upon further inquiry, it appeared to the Noble Earl that he had been misinformed with respect to that question, and when his name again appeared in the list for the suc ceeding year he lost no time in appointing him.—( Hear, hear.) The course which led to the setting aside of the other names upon the list was resolved upon in the month of December 1835, it was promulgated in February 1836, we were in our places in Parliament during the whole of the ses sion, Lord Mulgrave was present in his place in the other House in the month of May, and yet. till the holding of the meeting at the Mansion-house in Dublin, in the month of January, 1837, no accusation has been brought forward against us impugning the propriety of that course.—( Cheers. ) The Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman has tried to justify his case by going into some long details respecting the character and qualification of the gentleman who was to fill the situation of sub-sheriff for Wexford. He has questioned the fitness of Mr. Corcoran to fill the office. I believe him to be a gentleman of great respectability ; and as a tolerably strong testimony to that fact, as well as to his utility, I may mention the fact of his having been se lected as electioneering agent for the late lamented Mr. Kavanagh.—( Hear, hear.) I do not -know whether Hon. and Learned Gentleman would have preferred the con tinuation in office of the previous sub-sheriff, Mr. Reid, who, upon a quantity of corn net being bid for at a tithe auction, bought it himself, and set fire to it in the sight of a destitute and excited multitude.—( Hear, hear.) I know not whether the Hon. and Learned Member would have had that person continued in his office; but so strongly did - the Government feel the propriety of not running the risk of re-appointing him, that' they addressed a note to the proper quarter ex pressing a hope that Mr. Reid would not again be named upon 1 the list of sub-sheriffs.—( Hear, hear.) That note was promptly replied to. Mr. Reid retired, and Mr. Corcoran became his successor.—( Hear, hear.) Passing, then, from the case - of Mr. Corcoran I conic to that of Mr. Cassidy, which has been made the subject of much severe comment in the course of the present debate. It is a complaint very ge neral throughout Ireland,-and nowhere more prevalent than in Queen's County, that there are to be found upon the bench very few magistrates who profess the same faith or sympathise with the opinions of the great majority of the population. —( Hear, hear.) I do not mean to say that this should stand as a reason for appointing or rejecting any par ticular person ; but it was undoubtedly a fact much to be lamented. Several names were forwarded to Lord de Vesci, the Lord-Lieutenant of the country—against whose integrity or honour I should be the last person in the world to say a word —as fit and proper persons to fill the office of sub-sheriff. Lord de Vesci did not think fit to approve of those names, and an appeal was in consequence made to the Lord Chancellor arid to the Irish Government. An inquiry took place. Lord de Vesci stated his objections to the names forwarded, and the grounds upon which those objections were founded. In the instance of Mr. Cassidy it appeared that his objection rested upon certain proceedings before. the Court of Quarter Ses sions, with which that gentleman had been connected. The case arose, I believe, out of a demand for county cess, which Mr. Cassidy contended was improperly levied upon him. It turned out that when the demand was about to be enforced, some persons in Mr. Cassidy's employment offered a forcible resistance, and a disturbance ensued. lam told that Mr. Cassidy unequivocally expressed his disapproval of the con duct of his servants, although of course he was compelled to bear the weight of the damages incurred in consequence of it. Mr. Cassidy was recom mended to the Government by several gentlemen in the county of ,high station and great respecta bility. The Hon. Gentleman opposite shakes his head as if that statement were not true. Mr. VE SE Y—Will the Noble Lord name one of those gentlemen? Lord MO RP ET lI—I am in possession of the names of several, and could mention them, if I pleased ; but I really do not know whether I should be justified in bringing them forward in this way.—( hear, hear.) I state the fact upon my own responsibility.—(Cheers.) Persons whom 1 think to be respectable, recommended Mr. Cassidy to the Government.— ( Cheers. ) His father had been reported to be one of the best magistrates in the county of Kildare, and in the King's and Queen's counties.—( Hear, hear.) His younger brother is a magistrate and sheriff for Kildare, and he himself holds the commission of the peace for the King's county, to which he was appointed by Lord Oxmantown, no great advocate of agi_ tation or repeal.—(hear, hear.) But the utmost thunders of the opposition seem to have been reserved for the appoietment of Mr. Pigott. Now there is no nomination upon which, both on public and private grounds, I take more cordial pleasure.— ( Hear.) Ido riot know a person of whom 1 have a higher opi nion, or for whom I anticipate a more successful career, whether in the estimation of his fellow-citizens, or in the first walks of his profession.—( Hear, hear.) He is a member of the Asso ciation.—( Hear.) That he has often appeared there or taken any promiuent part in their discussions, or delivered any of his sentiments there, lam not aware. The last time in which I saw his name mentioned as connected with the pro ceedings of the Association was when that body had been very near passizig a vote of censure upon him.—( Hear, hear.) But undoubtedly I do not disguise that there are many members of the Association who entertain to profess opinions widely at variance with those of the Government under whom I have the honour to serve.--( Hear, hear.) But I apprehend that in availing ourselves of any benefit which may be received from the advice of Mr. Pigott, we in no way remove any respon sibility which his appointment may impose either upon the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, the chief law officers, or myself. For my own part I can only say that I shall most willingly share in any responsibility which may be supposed to result from his appointment.—( Hear.) With respect to the Asso ciation, it is impossible to maintain that the existence of such a bode, and the extent to which it carries its functions, can be said to indicate a perfectly healthy state of society—( Hear)-- or that we could contemplate its permanent establishment with out giving rise to serious uneasiness and jealousy on the part of the local Government.—( Hear.) I am therefore the mor e tempted to bewail that mistaken and perverse course of policy which made its establishment and its wide-spread and daily i n _ creasing influence a natural, and, whilst men's natures continue what they are, an inevitable consequence of the provocation that had been offered.—(Cheers.) I have yet to learn, from the opinion of any competent authority, that it is an Merrill body.—(Hear, hear.) No Gentleman opposite has ventured to state a positive opinion upon that point.---( Hear, hear. The Hon. and Learned Sergeant (Jackson) spoke strongly in support of the op inion that it was il legal, but he did not far commit himself, as to declare positively that it was. The Right Hon. and Learned Recorder for the City of Dublin (Mr. Shaw) said that the Association was clearly against the spirit, if not the letter of the law.--( Hear, hear.) A tole rable presumption, I think, that he does not consider it against the letter of the law.—( Hear, hear.) I cannot suppose that the Hon. Member for Dublin (Mr. West), who spoke last, b e li e ves it to be illegal , because he fortified the opinion he ex pressed upon it, by quoting a passage extracted from a speech made by Mr. Canning, in which the same grounds of illegality were imputed against the predecessor of the present Associa tion—namely, the Roman Cath olic Association.—( Hear. ) Thus it appears evident, from the tone adopted by th e H on. Gentlemen opposite, that they do not consider this body to be clearly and manifestly an illegal one.—(Hear.) At all events, most happy am I to be the servant of a Government who will not prefer to introduce new laws for its suppression, to remov ing those just causes of complaint which are the pretext arid the aliment of its being and its vigour.—(Cheers.) A great attempt has been made on the opposite side of the House to impute a variance of opinion to different members of the Go vernment. I do'not anticipate any difference of opinion as to the practical course to be p ursued.—(Hear .) I suppos e I must leave the question of what composes an exact identity of opinion in an Administrat ion to be contes ted and settled by the Hon. Members for Do wn and T y ro ne.—(Laughter and cheers.) Having now gone through most of the specific cases that occur to my memory as having been alleged against us, I must say, with respect to all the general and sweeping charges of our being disgraced and degraded in our administration, and holding office wholly subservient to the dictation of one single individual, that while those who think these things are wel come, with all my heart, to their thoughts, I may meet them with a denial as broad and absolute as the tone and mode in which the expression of them has been advanced.—(Cheers.) I know that such charges have not been confined to this as sensbly—l know that they have lately been uttered in other places of high-sounding names.--( Hear, hear.) lam sorry to identify or to associate either patrician titles or the Protes- i_ tant cause with the utterance of slander.--( Cheers.) I know' that every latitude must be given to the fervour of excited elo quence, and therefore it is not to the speech of any noble or reverend orator that I refer.—( Hear, hear.) Their speeches might be misreported ; besides, no man would be compelled, and few, perhaps, disposed, to read them.—(Laughter and cheers.) But at the late meeting at the Mansion-house, Dublin, I find there opinions set forth in all authentic, pre meditated, and deliberate form—in the form of a resolution receiving the full sanction of the meeting :—" Resolved, that the patronage of the Irish Government and its prerogative o f mercy have been abused to the furtherance of purposes inju rious to the peace of the country, the administration of its laws, and the stability of British connection—that partisans have been placed in office as assistant-barristers, 'es magis trates, as officers in the constabulary and police, whose re commendation in some instances Iws beets their unscrupulous attachment to a faction ; and that appontinei:ts made in this spirit have been subsidiary to the creation of fictitious voters, and have greatly prejudiced in public opinion the odrninistra tion of justice," Now I should be unworthy of hold.'ng a si tuation under the present Government, and should be .unwor by of appearing in this House, or before any assembly t,f my countrymen, if I hesitated to brand this resolution as a tiN'ae of the most unfounded and most unbecoming imputations from its beginning to its end, in every line and every letter.— (Cheers.) Yes, said the Noble Lord, addressing himself pointedly to the Opposition, it is easy for you to condemn our exercise of patronage. We assert that your imputa tions are unfounded.—(Cheers, and counter cheers.) When ever you bring forward a name, I am ready to meet you, ___(Loud cheers.) With the assistant-barristers who have, been appointed under the Government of the Earl of Mul grave, and who, in the resolutions of the Mansion house meeting are made subject to such dishonouring impu tations, I have the pleasure and the honour of a personal ac quaintance; and I take it upon myself to say that in probity and honour they are equal to every one of those who attended. that meeting,—( Cheers)—and judging of the character of the members from the proceedings adopted at this meeting, in sense, ability, discretion, and moderation, I will institute no comparison between them at all.—(Continued cheering.) I have many papers in my hand relative to the cases tried be fore those assistant-barristers. I will not go into them here ; not only because I do not think this House the fit arena for a discussion of the kind, but because a committee has been re cently appointed before which it might very properly be brought, if to any Hon. Member there should appear to be a necessity for further investigation. But three names—l omit all the others—have been specially signalled out as subjects of reproach and suspicion—the names of Messrs. Hudson, Gib son, and Fogerty. In the case of Mr. Hudson I beg to state . these facts in reply to the insinuations that have been made against him. In June last he rejected seventeen Liberal claimants who were tenants to Mr. Vigors. and subsequently nine others, all of whom were admitted to the franchise upon ap peal to Judge Johnson, at last summer assizes. Similer clai mants had been before admitted by Mr. Hulstonge Robinson, the Conservative assistant-barrister, and also by Mr. Moody, but Mr. Hudson rejected them. There has been only ono appeal by the Conservatives from his decisions, upon the ques tion of value. Fully one-third of the Liberal claimants have beer, rejected by him at the sessions. The average number of notices served was four hundred at each sessions. With re ap et to Mr. Gibson I will only say, that in the Leinster Ex press, an Orange local journal, there is an article, published in the beginning of last November, attacking the apathy of the Conservatives in the county, in not coming forward and stating that Gibson registered fairly and impartially, upon the prin ciple of the - beneficial value, and that the Conservatives had thus an equal chance with the Liberals, if they would come forward to the registry. I find, too, this practical result of the registration in Leinster, for the years 1835 and 1836. AC the Winter Assizes, of ten Conservative claimants nine were admitted, whilst of 96 Reform claimants 27 only were ad mitted—( Hear, hear)—and again, in the Spring Assizes of 1816, out of eight Conservative claims seven were admitted, whilst of 103 Reform claimants only four were admitted. The Hon. and Learned Member for the city of Dublin, who spoke last, alluded to the course pursued by the ma gistrates of King's county towards Mr. Gibson, the assistant barrister; but that circumstance hes already been fully gone into by my Noble Friend who opened the debate, by whom the reason of that proceeding was fully and amply exposed. I will merely say, that at all events the magistrates made a speedy atonement to the assistant-barrister; because, after having removed him from the chair, they found them selves constrained to call upon him for his assistance in making the charge to the Grand Jury. —(Loud laughter.) Another part of the resolution which I have read embraces the officers of the constabulary and police. With respect to those per soi►s who have been appointed officers in the constabulary and. police, I of course have not had the same means of making a personal acquaintance with any of them, as I have had the pleasure of doing with the assistant-barristers. I can only say, that they were recommended to us from quarters on which we thought we could place the fullest reliance, and that the qualifications of all of them were submitted to the personal scrutiny of the distinguished officer at the head of the estab lishments. One qualification I admit they have not possess& ; they have not been recommended by the Hon. Members op posite, nor by their friends and supporters.—( Cheers and laughter.) We admit that they are in no hurry of attack. In this we admit that they arc eminently defective. They arc emi nently defective also in persecuting Protestantism. Talking of persecuting Protestantism, the Honourable and Gallant Member for Donegal had attempted to be witty at the ex. pense of my Noble Friend the Member for Leitrim (Lord Clements), because he was not at that meeting ; but my Noble Friend wanted one requisite qualification ; for, in the first place, it was necessary that all must be Pro testants who were admitted, but, further than that, they must all be aggrieved Protestants. Now, my Noble Friend did not admit that he was aggrieved, although he was quite ready to go to the meeting, and most worthily might he have been admitted, for a more honourable, a more upright, impartial man does not exist than my Noble Friend.—( Loud cheers.) I think that the lion. and Gallant Officer will feel that my Noble Friend has satisfactorily proved that he was not entitled to be present or to be heard at that meet ing. Now, with respect to the exercise of patronage, what ever the requisite qualifications have been, and the selection has been necessarily confined to a few persons—as, for in stance, to the superintendents of hospitals, or to the higher and more responsible functionaries of education—l can ven ture to say no Government could have gone further than what Earl Mulgrave's Government has done in making the appointments exclusively in reference to the highest degree of fitness of the person who was candidate for the office. And if in doing this we have not always had the pleasure of appointing - persons friendly to us, in the ordinary exer cise of patronage, we have followed that selection amply enough ; where our path, too, was illuminated by the proceed ings of our predecessors.—(Laughter and cheers.) The head and front of our offending is this, that we have preferred our friends and supporters to our avowed adversaries, our open vi lifiers, and our insidious underminers.—( Immense cheering) Such has been hitherto the policy of Earl Mulgrave ; and in spite of all that shall be alleged or charged against us, such it will continue.—( Renewed cheers.) Upon the general .prin ciples on which the Government of Ireland ought to be con ducted I feel that it is beyond my present :province, and per. lisps out of my place, to enter. Albeit I am myself con nected with the local Government of Ireland, yet I will say, as my Noble Friend has most correctly stated, that the head of that Government has had the happiness of carrying it on with perfect union and harmony of feeling, and that the House will perceive that they have enjoyed the confidence of the central Government at home. With respect to my own individual share in the conduct of that Government, I have reason to believe that my own constituency—certainly not the least numerous, not the least industrious, not the least religious, not the least Protestant in the empire—have not withheld their confidence from me.—(Loud cheers.) The impression upon me grows stronger day by day, that if they do not carry on the Irish Government in any other system—in a system of repression, in a system of alienation, in a system of keeping back the people of Ireland, or in keeping back and keeping down the Catholic laity of Ireland, or in keeping aloof from the Catholic clergy of Ireland—l - do not mean aloof with respect to the honours and profits of the State, but from all confidence, assistance, co-operation and good will—a pretty task our successors will have in putting down the National As sociation ; but not content with that, the Hon. and Learned Sergeant has thrown in the putting down the Roman Catholic Hierarchy.—( Immense cheering.) But to carry on that Go vernment in any other system than one of kindness, of conci liation, and of equal and impartial justice, is a plan which will be attended with enormous risks in Ireland and in England. Whatever partial difference may exist, whatever partial prepos sessions may exist, if you ever come to make the critical de mand, I doubt you will find very little alacrity on the part of - the people in bestowing the necessary quantity of blood or treasure to keep up or perpetuate such a system. I have touched upon what relates to our own department, as a mem ber of the Irish Government. It i s t h e d e p artment o f Parlia ment, and of this House primarily, to determine whether the policy of the executive shall be ratified, followed up, and ex tended by the proceedings of the legislative department-- whether what we can generally manifest but in spirit and in. intention, you will convert into a living and lasting enact ment—( Cheers)—whether you will change the favour that now may be bestowed upon them by any individual into a deep rooted, because well grounded, attachment to the laws that arc equal, and the Constitution that is common.—(Cheers.) And, with such views, and in such a course, you cannot take a better or a more effectual step than by giving your votes to the measure of my . Noble Friend this evening.—(The Noble Lord sat down amid very loud and long-continued cheering.) Mr. Sergeant JA CKSON begged in explanation distinctly to state, that the letter to which the Noble Lord had referred, as having been read by him (Mr. Sergeant Jackson) was a ge nuine letter, and was addressed, not to the Inspector, but to the Governor of the gaol.--( Opposition cheers.) Sir J. GRAH A M confessed he waited with some impa tience during that long and in some measure desultory discus sion to hear the defence of the Irish Government from a con fidential adviser of his Majesty. Hon. Members bad been pleased to throw out taunts with regard to a supposed collision on that (the Opposition) side of the House; and the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had indulged in sarcastic al lusions to his (Sir J. Graham's) consistency. But he had done nothing secret, nothing covert. Everything he bad don° was in the face of day. He had committed no act of which he was ashamed, neither had he sacrificed opinions.-- (Cheers.) He rejoiced in the unanimity which prevailed amongst those on the bench where he had the honour of sit ting. No effort had been wanting on his part to promote that union, and none should be wanting to strengthen and perpetuate it.—( Loud cheers.) That union had been ren dered necessary from the dangers which surrounded the cool try--dangers hieh had been produced by. the combination . which bad taken place on the opposite benches.—(Hea r, hear.) He confessed he was astonished to find that when the Irish Government had been attacked by the Learned Sir'