The Sun. — London, England, 1846-06-09 00:00:00

THE :'..,iINisTERIAL MEASURES. MEE LING AT LORD JOHN RUSSELL'S. A meeting of Liberal Members opposed to the Irish Ministerial measures was held on Saturday afternoon, et the resid?,nce of Lord John Russell. at Cheshom-phice. There were present Lord Palmerston, Lord Morpeth, Lord Mtlooarne, Lord Henry Vane, the Earl of Arundel and Surrey, Lord Edward L,,vd t)iinettn. Loy d Clements, Lord Ebrington, Lord Arthur Hill, Lord Mil ton, the Right Hon. R. L. Sheil, the Right Hon. F. Baring, the Right Hon Edwari Ellice, the Right Hon. T. B. Macaulay, the Right Hon. Sir John Cam Hob "lse, Sir Thomas Wilde, the Right Hon. Charles Wood, the Right' Hon. H. Labouchere, the Right Hon., l'ox Manly, the Right Hon. Robert V. Smith, Mr. O'Connell, Mr. John O'Connell, Sir William Clay, Sir Charles Lemon, Sir W. Somerville, Sir Winston Barron, the Rom Graniley Berkeley, the Hon. F. H. Berkeley, Mr. Ward, Mr. T. Dtmcombe, the Hon. Mr. Gore, Mr. P. Howard, Mr. Joseph Hume, Mr. Williams, Sir B. Ball,-Mr. Hawes, Colonel Rawdon, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. l ier.rnan, Mr. Dundas, Mr. Watson, Mr. PowlettScrope, Vyse, Sir Charles Napier, Mr. M'Carthy, Mr. Robert Dillon Browne, Mr. Patrick Somers, Colonel W hite, Mr. Hewett B r idg e man, :sir. J. M. M'Donnell, Captain Layard, Mr. Christie, Mr. James, Mr. Banner man, Mr. R. M. Bellew, Sir Valentine Blake, the Hon. Edward Bouverie, Dr. Bowring, Mr. Brotherton, the W. Cowper, Mr. Curteis, Mr. Duff, Mr. G. Dun can, Sir John Easthope, Mr. Wakley, Mr. Bright, Ge neral Sir De Lacy Evans, Mr. F. French, Mr. Morgan Jo hnO'Connell, Mr. George Moffatt, Mr. Protheroe, .„, J. Matheson, &c. The meeting was held in his Lordship's dining-room. Lord JOHN RUSSELL opened the proceedings by re marking that he was extremely desirous to call atten tion to two very important matters which were imme diately to come under the consideration of Parliament. Re alluded to the Irish Coercion Bill, and the question Of the sugar duties. He would first advert to the Co- ercion Bill, being desirous to secure unanimity of action Upon that measure. He was distinctly opposed to that Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He considered its enactments most harsh and oppressive ; and he believed that the principal a rgument adduced in the House of Lords, namely, the urgent necessity that existed for the measure, was not borne out by the circumstances of the case. Under that irupression, he .conceived that the further progress of the Bill ought to be opposed in its future stages. He thought that the best course which could be taker would be t ,_ () m ove, on Monday, when the Bill would again alive to be considered, its second reading that day Months. If thi s suggest i on me t w ith the approval of 11311 . Gentlemen present, he trusted that the debate bl ight be taken upon this measure, and that the ques tion which .had been already so fully and so ably dis cussed by the Irish Members miedit be brought toaclose at the expiration of three days.—(Bear, hear.) Any further discussion on the Bill would be useless. He would, therefore, suggest that such a motion as he had j_ u 'dicated should be brought forward.—(Cheers.) „Lord C LEMENTS regretted that he could not agree i n afi a course pointed out by Lord John Russell. He con sidered that the social c ndition o: Ireland required the ItPPlication of coercive measures ; and, entenal,,ing thet i' l "evic ion, h' co u ld not - oppose The measures pi oposed by Minise rs with reference to that couetry— thalssetit)—altneugh at the same time he did net beiie v i t they would have the eT:et of tranquilizing the unit or removing the causes of complaint. I , M ._ r• O'C ONNELL expresse d hi s d eep grati fi cat i on that '!"- 1 John Russell and lion. Gentlemen who usually wrd with him appeared willing to adopt that course s l ' - ' ll he Was convinced must ultimately promot e t h e self interests Interests of England.—(Hear, hear,) - lie had hire of _ gi v en , notice of a motion for Monde \ 1,:u• ticourse he should re.w withdraw it, in order that 1 - e ght not offyr any oFpo.,,ioon to the course suggested m..!0 Noble Lord (John Russell). which had his ust corlial app rova l. H e regrette d th at upon t h e pre jute as l ie d b een the case npr, all rin=r occasions, i„"! Irel an d' s sons had been found to declare Lis ' n ention of adopting a course calculated to militate most her interests. Holding. as he did, the highe4 h:Pect for the opinions and position of the Noble Lord, 11 - 4 Could not but say, when he yell cted that he Bill stated his determination to support the ; h i. w i thout having given any reason for adopt 11:tstle such a course, that his: opposition would have' effect with the Hon. Gentlemen around him—more e7Pecially when they considered that while the Noble -i-tord stated his intention to sri pport the measure, he at t t he s ame time said he did not think it would be found _answer to e purposes for which it was intended. _ ~ T d r CLEMENTS was not surprised to hear the Hon. such nini e e arn nts ed G ent l eman sa y that he disapproved of his a a upon the subject—indeed he quite expected The Noble Lord continued to observe, amid i s _ mu ch laughte r , th a t if saich a state of things as that !,el:,ting at pr esent in Ireland were to last much longer, landlords and the people - would find themselves in the position of the Kilkenny cats, who carri e d thei r per sonal • animosities to such an extreme that they fought nothing was left but their tails. It appeared to t rt that in Ireland they wanted to apply th e reverse o f a American proverb, namely„ that every man had a 'l ght to larrup his own nigger, and mak e th e n i ggers t rup their masters.—(Sympto.ms of dissent.) After a few words from Sir. W. BARRON, Sir C. LEMON stated that he hoped Lord S. Russell WOUld hiMself move the amendment that the second re ading be taken that day six months—(bear, hear)— f or, as cumin.' from the leader of a great. political party ' ll that cou n t ) , it might have the effect of promoting , .y "nquillity Ireland.—(Hear...) Lord J. RUSSELL expressed his willingness to adopt I le °wine suggested by the Hon. Baronet, if any object ficial to Ireland could be gained thereby; but at the sa me time suggested that perhat:is it would come more 11 1) ,Y r °Pliately from some of the Irish Members.—(Hear, -tn. ') That was a point which might, however, be re aerved for further consideration. Al ter some additional consatrsation, Lord Morpeth 71esocsitedalled up on , as one w h o h a been intimately con with Irel an d, t o mo ve the amendment, but the ptlewLord declined to undertake that duty. as then agreed that the suggestions of Lord John Ita seell should be ,adopted, and that the selectiuji of the for te d moverove seconder of the amendment should be re- Lo r tad the c ons i deration of the Irish M em b ers. Which th e , td J. RUSSELL th en sa id th a t th e se c on d subject deserved their c ons id era ti or was the question of C.fugar duties. irtle announced that it was his intention forPtheepoee, and tat of his art to suort, a otion at th e a'dcuission h cif slave-ero p y pp slave-crown sugar into this country sugar time amount of duty a s wa s levied en free labour L ord ' c ,nut under c e rt a i n res t r i ct i ons . Some years sine the e oa:nrdnn had proposed a resolution deprecatory of 11 600 111 ' c ation of the duties on s lave-grown and f c!e Wt i ld r 6 ,,, 11 - 4 ars,.. upon the principle that such a r egu l a tion llire li ve direct encouragement to slavery. This tlpu "a" , resisted by the Whigs, which the Nohlt, oro mad e f( the p ur pose of pu - ring them out of of fi ce. t lhe Y entertained e same opinions now, and intended o Pursue- a. course favourable to the reception o.' slave g r own ste /a r and he trusted there would be no diff e rence of - ' opinion, u poo the point. The Hon. GRANTLEY BERKELEY remarke d , that h e had reg,,rded the Noble Lord for many years as his Political Reader, and on that aecouet , he regretted that e could nut, upon the present occasion, follow his ad /ice or sanction the course he meant . _to . pursue regarding t he had considerable p r oper t y in the e a s s t u l g t a u r fi: l „ ut d i e e p s 'end H ie e g upon the prosperity of the sugar but i f foreign -slave-grown sugar were to be ad !riitted into this country upon the same particularly e terms as free labour sum., the consequence w ould _ prove des!ructiv to his interests and to the Binterestswil ling' of those air °ilarlciveuced as he was• hever. mst an th to support e pr incip le of the Noble 44 orn's r eso l ut i on to t h e fullest extent, the British Go vernmentweeuld give the facilities of free labour to that, e°l° u3', so a; 3 to enable the sugar growers t o com p ete with the other rn ; arkets of the world. T he meet ins shortly afterwards broke up.. at Which meeti ng - was subsequently held at the Reform Club, W hich it was unanimously resolved, that Sir William Somervillepurpose should wait upon Lord John Russell for the it w P „ ° ..". of No:vesting him to move the amendment ; and ..° flirth i do' ' .r agreed, that should the Noble Lord de clineW, s l ug i le, the amendment should be moved by Sir The and seconded by Colonel Rawdon. a h oio r i Irish Members also came to the resolution that, i c . "iu the % nig measure fail, no opportunity should be ea ear. out the Government by delay , and that in pro teeth) intent' " nistsdid not immediately declare their Coercion ion, du rin g th e c Bits, the course of the debatq, of opposing the the same o pt). os i tt L w Pu a ld give to it in its present stage th t they did upon the first reading. MEET] iNG O F , - ------- ru The protectionist Peers also E PROTECTIONISTS. held a meeting on Satur day,oumseerwouy attended. Several whi c h was very ce Members of t he Lower ti most unanimity prevailed. still by no rc ett It declared that the were present, and the ut desperate ; and it cause of Prot action is W as oclrb,2 made in Coin was determin ;ed that an attempt ghou l s the diminished toittee to 'per petuate the oppeersa,titoono, expressed that sliding scale. Confident ho ec-otion to ob wer even if they' s bould be defeated in this would-be able in the forthcoming general tai o suc h a 1 ,1 feponderance in the House of e a i ttem Pt. they Would insure them a continuance, if not ant) " as ti °n, of this a ; mount of protection. a° augmenta TH E C BEs DE NT- AND THE CROss. By ELTor WAa. Bnirpox, ESQ.- - W ye observe that a fifth editi on o f t h is in teresting book • bas been called for by the public. M r . War burton brings I et his work an accomplished mind, and well trained and het i lthful faculties. As we read, we are proud to claim him as f t, countryman, and are content that his book shall go over al .1 the world, that other countries from it may derive a just impression of our national Character. Mr. Warburton sal led up the Nile beyond the second cataract, and inspetled those wonders of art in - Nubia, whose origin is lost in their a ntiquity ; visited the great cities and monu ments of Egvc , t, then crossed to Beyrout, made a pilgrimage in the atly Lt and, and on his homeward voyage touched at eSPress and (i reece. His volumes are full of just perception i , and spi r it e d d They greatly increase our acquaintance •!‘ th Eastern scenes, arid to the traveller afford a variety of , ; r "rniation which be could hardly elsewhere find in so in eresting a s' gape.—Britannia. 11 " 7 N 1 ,D wfilIST BATHING.—On Sunday morning, seatsere o'clock, a young man named Thomas Snake, of Porl.land-street,-t, was drownel whilst bathing in the Pentin e - Joh n A S.hortly at ft- rwar an,ther young man, named tho _ who could not swim, got out of his depth, and ctrica ted whilst alive, his system was so severely Ist be io not expected to stuntiVe. DIPEit L. I' A. T. LIOUSE OF LORDS, June 8. Their Lordships met to-day at Five o'clock. THE BROAD AND NARROW GAUGES. The Earl of RIPON laid on the table a report from the Board of Trade relative to the subjec' of the railway gauges. MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Alessenger. from the House of Commons brought up several Bills, which were ordered to be laid on the table. BATHS AND WASH-HOUSES FOR THE LABOUR ING CLASSES. The Bishop of LONDON wished for a few moments to direct the attention of their Lordships to a subject, which, though not one of great political importance, was still one en titled to grave consideration. lie had some petitions to present to them which were important on account of the signatures to them, but still more so on the subject to which they related. That subject was intimately connected with the welfare of the labouring cla sses , a n d h e craved their favourable con siderat i on . btoatthe and hem. Twhesehpe-htoiutisoenes for h the had ireflearbeonucring e to ichlaesesessta,baln"rhl establ is h ment t e o d f that they would pass a law enabling boroughs a certain size, to borrow money to formeeaenhd parishes, institutions.of that might be laid out upon it, but he mustt attemptre The plan was suffieient to pay an ample return for t he capit al ied o their Lordships that it was . useless i t u o g paid of some the etliaebno,ui,,r; the sc,omnedittiimone. to their physical comfort. Their Lordships might in vain c i l m as p s r e o s ve unles t s he they m a o t ral at tempt to improve the political and social condition of the labouring classes, unless they at the same time took the trouble to promote their individual and personal interest. (Hear.) They must first remove the poor man from his extreme state of destitution, and then they might endeavour to experiment upon the best means of improving his spiritual condition—they must relieve him from his extreme misery before they attempted to attack his as a moral agent, and this was th6e only way in which they could at all expect, with any reason, to improve the moral state of the labouring classes of society. Their Lordships would allow they had tested by experience, on a mall scale it was true, but still sufficient to justify their making the experiment on a much lariter scale. In asking, therefore, for an allowance from the public funds, he was only asking for that which would make a large return on the outlay of capital that might be used for the formation of baths and washhouses The first petition he bad to present was from the bankers and merchants of London, and was signed by the heads of more than 100 principal firms ; the second was signed by the Chair man and Deputy Chairman of the London Dock Company, who had many thousands of labourers in their employ ment. The next was from the churchwardens and over seers of St. Martin's-in-the-Fields. The next was from the guardians of the poor of the same parish. The next was from the perochial clergy of the metropolis, signed by 120 clergymen ; and be felt assured th a t if time h ad been allowed it would have been signed by every member of the body from whom it emanated, for they felt it would be bring ing the poor more within the sphere of their spiritual ministrations, and would tend more than anything else to improve the labouring classes. It should be recollected that great complaints had been made that hundreds of thousands in the metropolis were crowded together, so that one family occupied one room ; but, in consequence of the numerous improvements in the metropolis, in many of these instances, there were now two families crowded into one room. It did not appear that any provision had been made against this evil in carrying out those improve ments. It should be also recollected that the step which he now advocated was only as a drop in the ocean. In consequence of this system of things, a gradual deteriora tion had taken place in the physical and moral condition of these classes. About twenty years since, when he was a parish clergyman, he knew a house in which there was sixteen rooms, and in each of these there was a family consisting ofj four persons, in all, sixty-four individual., but that was not so bad as the present condition of things. In houses thus thickly inhabited it would clearly be seen the in jury which must be felt by washing the linen of the family, as the houses would be in a constant state of humidity from the steam. He found that in the town of Liverpool, where an institution of this kind was established under the sanction if the corporation of that place, the greatest eagerness was manifested on the part of the working classes to avail them selves of the benefit of the bath. In the year ending 28th of May, 1846, there were used 3,832 cold baths, and 16,764 warm baths, making altocether 20.596 baths. The receipts fir the year were 383/., being an increase on the preceding sear of 6,667 baths, and 1501. on the receipts. This showed a desire on the part of the labouring classes to avail themselves of the belie its of these institutions. A similar institution was established lately by an association of benevolent individuls in Glasshouse-yard, a locality where probably none of their Lordships ever penetrated— ( Laughter)—and the lowest and poorest classes of society, who could not even be called respectable la ;ewers, were in the habit of resorting to it. In the second half-year the number of bathers amounted to 14,124, and the number of washers amounted to 19,937, a total of 63,142 persons t enefi td; if to these were added the number ef persons for whom articles have been washed, you will make a total of 87.0:0 directly benefited. and the whole of this goad had been done fl.r a sum net greatly exceeding 40w. He need not point out to their Lordships the immense beneficial effects which must necessarily arise from snob institutions, they were sufficiently known to their Lordships, and he would not there. fore trespass upon them further than to quote the opinion of a medical man of some experience on the subject. The petitioners stated that the returns would, in all probabi lity, amount in the whole to 1.3 i per cent., and furnish ex cellent interest on the capital invested. The petitions were from a large number of merchants, bankers of the city of London ; the Chairman and Deputy Chairman of the Asso ciation for the Establishment of Baths for the La bouring Classes; from the Board of Guardians of the parish of St. Martins-in-the-Fields;_ one signed by 121 paro chial clergymen, which was entitled to special consideration, as they complained that the want of accommodation for forward ing personal cleanliness, interfered with the attendance of the pourer classes at church. He hoped steps would be taken to meet this state of things, and that the recreation and innocent amusement of the labouring classes, which had been so little attended to for a long time, would he now considered. Unless they provided baths and wash-houses for the poorest order of the working classes, so as to beget habits of cleanliness, it would be vain for them to provide amusement and instruc tion for them by museums or otherwise. The Marquis of NORMANBY thought that the Rev. Prelate owed no apology for introducing so important a sub ject. It was a most important question, and in con nexion with a subject that had been before the other House of Parliament— the dwellings of the poor— one entitled to their greatest consideration.—(He a r, hear.) The Right Rev. Prelate was the first to draw the attention o( the Government to this question and he deserved great praise for his exertions, and he trusted that he would not confine himself to simply erecting baths and washhouies, but go to further improvements necessary to the health and well being of the poorer ch-sses of this metropolis. Lord KINNAIRD said that it was impossible to imagine the distress and misery existing in this metropolis—it required occular proof to give any one an idea of its extent. The poor were crowded together in consequence of the improvements taking place in other parts of the metropolis. There were buildings new going on at Bethnal-green, and there was not one sewer provided for them, and this, he thought, showed the necessity, and, indeed, he considered it high time that a Board of Health should be established. ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH. Lord KINNAIRD said he had to present a petition on the Electric Telegraph Bill, the report of which was to be brought up this evening. The Duke of BEAUFORT objected to its reception, as being needless. Lord KINNAIRD said that the petition was based on public grounds. Lord BROUGHAM—Give us its prayer. Lord KINNAIRD said that this was a subject of great public interest, and the object of this petition was to prevent the carrying of this Bill wiamut further consideration. The petition was not opposed to the Bill itself, but, according to the prayer, to provide for its being carried out. From these statements, it appeared, that if the Bill were carried in its present form, it might prevent the improvement of the system ; for if they gave the power sought by this Bill, it would assuredly create a monopoly. This evil had already been largely felt by the wat-'r and gas companies. The report was to be brought up this evening, and he thought that if a clause were to be introduced at some firure stage of the Bill, obliging all companies to give this advantage to the Go vernment, it would in a great degree hinder the mischief which the petitioner anticipated, and he should move that the petition be referred to the Committee. The Duke of BEAUFORT stated that the report had already been brought up, and the object of the petition had already been answered. The petition indeed had been pre sented, and had been fully c ons id ere d b y the Committee. CORN-LAWS. The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from Durham praying their Lordships to pass the Corn Bill as speedily as possible. He considered it would be of great benefit to the agricultural portion of the people of that county. ethechpaertgiteiron.whTichhe NhaodblebAeelanrqubisroduegfehntdeadgahiinmeselfhaimgainostf The Marquis of LONDONDER RY concurred in the prayer of th having chang ed his prin c i p l es an d formed an alliance with th e Anti-Corn-aw League.p, ti e bad alwa y s stated, she r d, b,eepehial in P and private, th at no M i nistry could lung r of u b th fi e c corn-laws. The Duke of BUCKINGHAAI, who was alluded to by the Noble Marquis. briefly explained. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM then gave notice that in the Committee on the Corn. law Bill he would move that the words 4 , until the first of February, 1849," should he omitted. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from a place whose name we could not catch in favour of an immediate repeal. LONDON AND RAILWAY YORK BILL. The Earl of LOVELACh brought up the report upon this Bill, and moved for the discharge of the Committee. They had been now nineteen days at work, and they had passed all the unopposed Bills. Lord BM)UGHAM considered that the proposition was a very reasonable ow:, but he considered that it wou ld b e b etter to defer it till Friday next. ' Lord VIVIAN objected to such a course. He did think that the Committee bad strong claims upon the consi deration of their Lordships' House, after having now sat for nineteen days, and particularly when their Lordships recol lected that in all the other Committees of their Lordships' House, not one of them had such a number of R a ilway Bills be fore them as had occupied, or would halfoccupy fact, and the time. He was aware of this - fore b Lordships would accede to the e t rus ted their propo sition. The Earl o f DEVON said he felt quite assured that the of that House A Committee whose .uty it was to select membe rs Committees, would consi de r the subject with the to serve on anxiety it deserved. Lord REDESDALE said it was not the duty of the Com mittee-who arranged those railways i'n g roups to consider the the req uest question. At th e same time he should a dmit t hat and that it made by th e C omm i ttee w as a reasonable on would be e as y to re f er the Bills before that Com mittee to another one. N o d ou bt it might be urged that a gr eat d eal of the evidence upon some of those Bills h a d alread y been heard by that Committee • but then he did not think that the conside • of fe w ' addition a l expen se which ration a says would be incurred by referring theßills to another Com mittee sho u ld be an suggested that the _ any reason for refusing the request. He next. House should d ec id e upon it on Th u r s day Earl FITZ WILLIAM him to open a much wider said, th a t th e quest i on appeared tits of absence for consid erat i on t h an t h e mere question of g i v i ng leave therefore it should be considered d isence to th a t C omm i ttee, and as oneof very great importance. They could no l onger go on n could not allow the opportunity th e present system, and he y to pas s wit h out observing how inefficient w ere t h e present means of conducting and important sy s t em o f national intercourse the great Lord BROUGHAM agreed with the Noble Lord as to necessity of a ne w an d independent department, r the to supersede but to aid th e P ar li ament, in its investigat i 2,0 into these Bills. It wo u ld b e o f more satisfaction to the country, and to the promoters of these Bills, that a department should be set apart, to which all private Bills ought to be re ' ferred. Lord WHARNCLIFFE was convinced that some new ma chinery should be adopted to facilitate railway business in Parliament. He entirely agreed with the Noble Lord optic). site (Earl Fitzwilliam) that a change was necessary. Li i them look to the progress of the present Bill. It was intro, THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY _MORNING, JUNE 9, 1846. duce(' last session into the H ouse of Commons, where it was the amounts received by the various departments of expen considered ribt nineteen days, b u t e i g hty-four days. Under ' diture, from all sources except Parliamentary grants or issues such circumstances, it was almost impassible to get Members from the Exchequer in the year ending the sth day of of Parliament to sit so long unless they were-compelled to do I January, 1846. - -Agreed to. so. It had then been introducedinto thi s House, in the:present Mr. CHRISTIE moved for a return of the age, date of session of Parliament. They were now i n t h e month of June ' appointment, and salary of Patrick Shaw, Esq., Advocate, Pre considering- a Bid which had been passed last year by the senter of signatures in Exchequer in Scotland, and of the House of Commons. Another company ca me into the field amount of allowance to an assistant paid by him out of his this year, and because they had a branch which competed for a salary. Statement of the duties of presenter of signatures, show short distance with the London and York Railway, the whole ing how they differ from those of the agent for revising drafts question was opened up , an d th e s itti ng o f th e Committee was of charters, proposed to be appointed by a Bill now before therefore the more prolonged. Be thought it but right, that the House, "to alter arid amend the Practice in Scotland where a branch competed with a project for a main line, the with regard to Crown Charters and Receipts f. om Chancery," inquiry should only extend to that branch. the 4th section of which Bill provides that the revising agent Lord REDESDALE was of opinion that something should shall be a writer of the signet ; and the 26th section, that the be done to alter the present system of opposition in Corn- office and duties of presenter of signatures shall cease from the mittees. passing of the Bill, but that Mr. Shaw shill continue to draw The Marquis of CLANRICAIIDE conceived that the mo- his salary during his life-time."—Agreed to. Lion could net be entertained by the House. The better plan Mr. T. S. DUNCOAIBE said, that he took the liberty at would he either to move that the standing order be suspended, the c l ose o f th e d e b a t e on Friday evening last, of moving that or that the report be brought up on Thursday next. But to the Poor Removal Bill should be taken into the consideration this latter course there was this difficulty, that th e Committee of the House that evening, with the view of its taking prcee were supposed to sit de die in diem till the report was made. dente of any other notice of motion. The public had This was only a partial report, sand therefore it was incompe- a right to this course, and they had aisn a right to expect tent for the House to entertain it • a nd as th e b e t ter p : an , that the House would not goon with the Irish Coerc i on Bill un til therefore, he would suggest that the Noble Lord should move the Poor Removal Bill had been disposed of and discussed that the standing order be suspended. by that House. In consequence of the notice given by A conversation, in which many Noble Lords joined, then en- the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, on sued, which was interrupted by the occasion of the Irish Coercion Bill having been carried The LORD CHANCELLOR, who suggested that there on the first reading by a majority of that House, such a were, several Members of the House of Commons, who had course was expected, because on that occasion the Right Hon. been waiting, for along time, but Baronet was asked when he intended to go on with the Poor Lord CAMPBELL said he was disposed to show all possi. Removal Bill, and the course of action then laid down by the ble courtesy to those Hon. Members, but he had a very few Right Honourable Baronet was, that after the first words to add to the debate, and he could not help observing, reading of the Irish Coercion Bill, they should proceed that it appeared as if the Committee wished to throw off their with the Corn and Customs, some few votes of supply, duty by a side wind. and that he should alsogo on to take the sense of the House' on After some further discussion, leave was given for the the sugar duties before proceeding with the second reading of Committee to sit again on Thursday, at four o'clock. the Coercion Bill. They had disposed of the corn and customs Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition, complaining of the —they had had votes of supply, but they had not had the difficulty of obtaining sites for the session churches in Scotland, discussion on the Poor Removal Bill, and it was now pro and praying that some measures might be adopted to remove posed to take the second reading of the Irish Coercion the evil. The Noble Lord also presented a petition, numer- Bill before they made any progress in the Poor Removal Bill. ously signed, praying that the messure then under discussion, The House was called on in the first instance to take the first with reference to the corn duties, might speedily pass reading of the Irish Coercion Bill, and not from any admire into a law. tion of its provisions, but as a compliment to the House of LORD HARDINGE AND LORD GOUGH'S Lords, they were called on to agree to that first reading at ANNUITY BILLS. once. That arrangement was made, and in justice to many On the motion of the Earl of RIPON, the further con- gentlemen on that side of the House, he would say sideration of these Bills was postponed until to-morrow (this that under that impression many had voted fur the day) se'nniebt. first reading who intended to oppose it on the second. Earl GREY presented a petition from the parish of But now, be contended that the House was taken by surprise Wokingham, which, he said, referred to a matter of some im- by t h e G overnmen t support i ng and adopting the motion of his portance. The petition stated, that the parish extended over Hon. Friend the Member for Malton (Mr. E. Denison). a space of 8,500 acres, anti contained a population of 3,500 They were called upon the other night to enter Committee inhabitants. The parish was under the jurisdiction of the Dean pro forma, in order that the Government and his Hon. Friend of Salisbury. The tithes had been commuted to 1,698/. might introduce amendments into his Bill, which was to be There were thirty acres of glebe land, which produced 601. per altogether remodelled ; but he wanted to know; because he held annum. With these advantages, the Rev. Thomas Morris re- that the instruction agreed to on Friday night did not convey ceived the small stipend of 1501. per annum, including what the sense of the House, as the House was taken by surprise ; and he received from Queen Anne's bounty, and only 401. of the he now objected to take the Irish Coercion Bill, because it amount arose from tithes. Some years since he appointed an was incumbent upon them to take the Poor Removal Bill assistant-curate at a salary of 801., leaving himself the yearly thi s even i ng , i n or d er t o di sc h arge th e i ns t ruct i on passe d t h e amount of 70/. Since that time, the assistant-curate being other night. Even the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) unable to continue at the salary of 801., r ec e ived an increase, h a d no t p l e d ge d hi mse lf to support i t , b ut i n a ddi t i on which diminished the sum to 401. Th e petition to the objections he (Mr. Duncembe) had stated against it, went en to state that in consequence of the smallness of that he maintained that the instructions would altogether render income the Rev. S. Morris had been compelled to accept the the Bill a new one as it would have to be remodelled. He had appointment of master of some alms-houses, for which he re- a right to inquire whether the House was taken ceived a salary of 1001. per annum. The duties of that ap- by surprise or not with respect to the instructions pointment made great calls on his time, and he had, therefore, and with that view he wished again to have the sense of the less leisure to attend to his parochial duties. The petition House upon it, and if the Committee of the House was averse also complained that in 1843 the church was declared to be in to it, that it might be discharged, and that the Government so bad a state as to need either extensive repairs or rebuilding. might not be put to the trouble of proceeding with it. There Application was made to the Dean of Salisbury, with regard never was a Bill which required more remodelling than the to the means of repairing or rebuilding the church. He Poor Removal Bill, and it was a disgrace to the Poor (Earl Grey) would not trouble them with the pain'ul cor- law Commissioners to have laid such a Bill on the table of the respondence that bad taken place on the subject. He would House, because it would add to the difficulties in connexion with only state, as the petition went on to say, that th e parishioners the question of settlement. He should, therefore, conclude by were obliged to repair the church; and yet, from the impossi- moving that the order of the day for the second reading of the bility of coming to an arrangement with the rector, or lessee Poor Removal Bill be read in preference to the second of the tithes, they were obliged to spend 7001. on an inefficient reading of th e I r i s h C oerc i on Bill. repair of the Church, while they were prepared to expend a much Mr. HUME seconded the motion. larger sum on rebuilding it. The petitioners stated that the The SPEAKER having put the question, condition of the church arose from the want of sufficient Sir J. GRAHAM said he, for one, did not object to the ecclesiastical visitation, while at the same time it admitted of amendment of the Hon. Gentleman, but his approval of it some neglect on the part of the parish officer. The yearly must be qualified by the understanding that he should revenue available to the parish was 1,7001., an d yet, with that only support it for the purpose of postponing the large sum at its di s posal th e re was an insufficient spiritual Pour Removal Bill. He would tell the House what accommodation for th e p ar i s h, which in one part contained a had occrred since Friday evening last. In obedience to rapidly rising population, who gained their subsistence by what he considered the opinion of the majority of the House ; precarious means, and necessarily felt the want of spiritual on Saturday morning he gave directions to prepare clauses in attendance, which encouraged vice and immorality to a great accordance with those sentiments those clauses had extent. The Ecclesiastical Commissioners had more power been prepared, but he had not had time to consider them. than any ether body to do something on this subject, and it was If it were the pleasure of the House, he should be prepared on absolutely necessary that something should be done. They Wednesday or Friday next to give notice that he should might find the means of doing so without any alteration of the introduce the clauses to which allusion had been law, but if they would not an Act of Parliament would be already made. But the Honourable Gentleman necessary. These were the reasons why he wished to recom- was not satisfied with the decision of Friday night, mend the petition to the notice of their Lordships. last, and that the course proposed to be taken by his Right The Bishop of SALISBURY wished to thank his Noble Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, with reference to Friend for the courtesy he had shown for suffering the presenta- the second reading of the measure, the discussion on tion of the petition, and he would also express his views which had been fixed for that evening. What of the firmness he had shown in thus abstaining from a cor- had taken place with regard to the Poor Re respondence which would necessarily lead to a long correspond- moval Bill was in exact conformity, with the once. He admitted the state of the parish of Wokingham, arrangements that had been previously made. If the Hon. hut it was only one of a number of parishes which were in a Member for Finsbury should think that this matter would similar condition. The means of specially providing for those receive a fairer consideration in a fuller House, he was certainly geievances had been furnished under the late Act 3 and 4 Viet., at liberty to give notice of his intention to move that the subject chap. 113, which stated that tithes being separate estates en- be reconsidered. joyed by the corporation of soels, the power of disposing of them Mr. DUNCOMBE—I gave notice on Friday. should be vested in the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, always Sir J. GRAHAM had every reason to believe that the deci suhject to any existing lease. He thought, therefore, this sion of the House that evening would be in conformity to the matter should be referred solely to them, as it was in their pro- decision to which they had come on Friday night. It was cer vines. *nle _de ':cable that they should arrive at some distill(' Ordered to lie on the table. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and their Lordships adjourned at a quarter past Seven o'clock till Thurs day next. sin!) , mos, tesirable .iat understanding on this point. Mr. G. BAN KES said he entirely concurred with the view which had been taken by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, with regard to the division of the othsr night—that it was a divi sion which took the House entirely by surprise.—(Hear.) The surprise on that side of the House was complete, when they learned that the government voted in support of the mea sure, which they had every reason to suppose they would vote in opposition to—( Hear, hear)—because it was the very same measure which had been completely given up by the Secretary of the Home-office, and because he stated that he found it uni versally distasteful to the agricultural district—( Hear. hear) — and therefore it was entirely by surprise that that motion was so disposed of; for he might state that of those Hon. Members who sat on the same side of the House with him, on that occasion left the matter wholly and solely in the hands of the Government, because they consi dered themselves acting with safety in doing so ; though it was true they had not been universally in the habit of trusting them, and on the only occasion on which they unfortunately reposed their confidence in them, a measure was passed which was adverse to the wishes of their constituents. He was therefore prepared to say that before they adopted the instruction in question, that instruction ought to be carried by a majority of that House, and before that would be done they most have another division—(Hear, hear)—and he knew no occasion on which they were more likely to have a fuller at tendance, or a more dispassionate discussion, than they would have that eveni ng . He hoped, therefore, that the Hon. Mem ber for Finsbury would persevere in his motion, and now take a division ; and whatever that division might be, they would ac knowledge that it was a decision of a majority of that House.— ( Hear, hear.) He must remind his Hon. Friends who sat upon the Treasury bench, that it was understood that this measure should be sent pari passe to the other House of Parliament, with the other important Bill that was now before it. And with regard to the discussion interposing any further delay in the question of the Coercion Bill, he believed that the opinion was universal throughout the country, that the Government had no idea whatever of carrying- that Bill--( Hear, hear)—that they had resigned the hope, if they had not given up the wish of carrying it, and therefore he had no scruple whatever in interposing any further delay to ' the discussion, of the Coercion Bill. With regard to the discussion the other night, he thought that it was impracticable to carry it out un less the present poor-law unions were remodelled. Under these circumstances, he hoped that they would now have an oppor tunity of taking a vote without surprise, in a full House of Parliament, on this important question. Sir R. PEEL said that the great majority of those who were then present must have come there that day with the full expectation that the subject for discussion was the second read ing of the Bill for the better Protection of Life and Property in Ireland—( Hear, hear)—and when the opportunities for dis cussion were so precious it was of importance that no time should be lost in consequence of any misunderstanding. He had been most desirous, during the course of the present ses sion, to fulfil any assurance he might have given. He always felt certain that the second reading of that Bill was fixed under the impression that on the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair, there should be an opportunity, he would not say for the discussion of any pi inciple in the Bill, but for Members to state generally what were their opinions with respect to it. He would not admit that he ever said that this measure should proceed, pari passe, with the other Bill that was now before the other House of Parliament. He had always stated that he should be prepared to give a full op portunity for discussion on the question. He bad also stated that he considered it to be his duty to proceed with the Bill for the better protection of life and property in Ireland. He thought it would be perfectly open to any Hon. Gent. to object to the decision of the other night, and to give notice of his intention to move that the subject should be discussed again ; but surely that subject might be discussed with greater advantage if due notice of it were given —( Hear, hear)—than bringing forward a discussion upon it now, when the majority of the House had come there that evening under the impression that the subject for discussion was the second reading of the Bill for the better Protection of Life and Property in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He did hope, then, that the lion. Gent. would not drag the House into a futile discussion upon this most important discussion; but allow them to proceed with that which had been set down for the business of the evening. Mr. E VELYN DENI S ON said he had kept perfect good faith with the House with regard to this most important question ; and on Saturday, pursuant to appointment, he had an inter view with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of. State for the Home Department, and settled the clauses of the Bill. He might go so far as to say that the clauses had been brought up, and the amended Bill printed. Would it not be better, then, to postpone the discussion, in order that Hon. Members might have an opportunity of considering it. Mr. WAKLEY could not understand hew the House could have been taken by surprise by the course proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, for notice was given previous to the recess that the discussion on the second reading of the Bill should be proceeded with on Friday. The question now pro posed to be discussed was one of a most important character, for it affected the condition of thousands of the poorer classes of the country, and he hoped it would not be discussed or treated in the light of a party discussion.—( Hear, hear.) It was a subject which deserved the greatest attention of the House, and for good or evil must effect the condition of the poor for many years to come... For himself he deeply considered the question, but he confessed, after the motion of his Hon. Col league, it required still more of his consideration. His Hon. Colleague proposed that relief should be given in unions, as well as in parishes, which would involve the continuance of the Poor-law Commissioners ; and he must confess, after what bad transpired in a Committee with which he himself was con nected, that that House was not in a condition fur , the': to legislate upon that branch of the subject.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted, therefore, that the House would on no consideration legislate hastily on this question but would take into its consideration everything bearing on the question. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that he could not unite agree with the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, and with the Gentleman who brought the question before the House. He considered it fair to the Right Hon. Gentleman who intro duced the motion to the Government, that the House of Com mons should enable the Right Hon. Gentleman to place the Bill before the House in a definite shape. It would have been better had the Bill been called the Union Settlement Bill, as it would have brought the Bill more fully before the House. He could not see the advantage of going into any discussion on the Bill on the present occasion, for it seemed to him that it would be far better that they should allow the Right Hon. Gentleman to place the Bill (having fully considered the clauses) in that shape in which he thought the House could best consider it. The Hon. Member for Dorsetshire, although he supported the Bill, and seemed to support the motion of his intend n d to h' the Hon. Friend, bad sa id what he ( Lor d John Russell) thought was, in itself, a reason f or takin g such a course. He said that the unions were ve r y lar g e, too lar g e for the p ur poses required, an d until theysaw the a Hon. mendm Baronetents to the did not Bill, i they know thatßight of, t propose some modificat ion of the size the unions ? Th ey did not know what were the details be p ro p os ed ; and as the Hon. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 8. The SrEAICER took the Chair at Four o'clock. MORAYSHIRE RAILWAY BILL. . . This Bill was read a third time and passsed. STAINES AND RICHMOND RAILWAY BILL. Colonel WOOD moved the order of the day for the ad journed debate on minion for the re-commitment of this Bill, and took the opportunity of remarking upon the difficulty which had been thrown in the way of the Company by the length ened delay of the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, in giving their negative to the measure. He also complained that the Committee who had been appointed to inquire into the merits of the Bill had net received sufficient evidence. Mr. SOT HERON said it was not his intention to vote in any way on the matter before the House. In consequence of the vacillating conduct of the Board of Woods and Forests, the Committee of which be was a mem ber, had considered themselves justified in making a special report on the Bill, which, as they thought, would have the effect of delaying further proceedings, at least for the present session. Whatever decision the House might come to, he was of opinion that in no case should any public body, to which a Bill might be referred for its assent, be allowed to offer any opinion, or throw any obstacle in the way of the pro gress of the Bill at any time after the second reading of the Bill. Mr. H. BERKELEY observed that when the debate was adjourned, it was with the express understanding that the opinion of the Woods and Forests on the Bill was to be given. The Hon. Member was proceeding with his observations, when he was interrupted by Mr. HUME, who spoke to order, and said that as a mem ber of the Woods and Forests was present, the required in formation could be obtained. Sir G. CLERK said that proposals had been made by the company to make drains for the town of Richmond, and other wise to improve it. These proposals had met with the appro bation of the Board of Woods and Forests, and they had in consequence withdrawn their opposition► to the line on the part of the Crown property. Mr. VILLIERS observed that the delay had been occa sioned by the Commissioners, and that it was owing entirely to the Woods and Forests. The present motion was not intended to be an appeal from the Committee, and he should support the motion. A desultory conversation then took place, in which Mr. F. Scott, Lord U. Somerset, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Wakley, and Col. Peel joined, and the gallery was ordered to be cleared. On our re-admission theenumbers were— For the re-commitment of the Bill ... 61 Against it Majority against the re-commitment —7 This Bill was consequently lost. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed : Caledonian and Dumbartonshire Junction Railway ; Cambridge and Oxford Railway ; Dunbiane, Doune, and Callander Rail way ; East and West Yorkshire Junction Railway ; Glasgow. Strathaven, and Lesmahagyw Direct Railway ; Kil marnock arid Troon Railway ; Liverpool Improvement ; London and Suuth Wes . ern Railway Acts Amendment; Slamannan Railway (Bathgate and , Jawcraig Branches); Thames Raven Dock a n d R a il way (N9_2.); Wilsontown, Moruingside, and Coltness Railway (Bathgate Branch) : Wil sontown, Morningside, and Coltness Railway (Caledonian Junction) ; Wilsontown, Morningside, .and Coltness Railway (Improvement and Branches). CULLEN'S ESTATE BILL. This Bill was read a second time and passed. REPORTS. The following reports were brought up, the amendments and alterations agreed to, and the Bills ordered to be en grossed : --Clitheroe Junction Railway ; Earl- of Blesinton's Estate BIB; London and Birmingham Railway (Newport Pag nell Branch ); North Gravesend Railway ; Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway ; Sheffield General Cemetery ; Shropshire Union Railways and Canal (Newton to Crewe, with Branches) ; South-Eastern Railway (Maidstone to Strood, Lear Rochester); South-Eastern Railway (Canterbury to Dora.); South Wales Railway; South Yorkshire Coal Railway and Canal. WEXFORD, WAKEFIELD, AND VALENTIA RAILWAY. On the motion of Mr. SPOONER this Bill was at ithdrawn. ST. MARTIN'S BURIAL GROUND, BIRMINGHAM. Mr. SPOONER moved that it be an instruction to the Committees on the London and Birmingham Railway (Birm ingham Extension) Bill, the Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Stoor Valley Railway (Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Dudley lines) Bill, and the Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway Bill, that they do entertain the petition of relatives of persons deceased interred in St. Martin's Burial-ground, Birmingham, notwithstanding such petition was not presented three clear days before the day appointed for the first meeting of tho C-Inmittees. • Mr. ORMSBY GORE said that a petition to the contrary effect of that stated by the Honourable Member for Birming ham had been presented by the trustees, and if the House sanctioned the motion he must move that this petition be also referred to the Committee. Mr. W. IL COLLETT seconded the motion of the Hon. Member for Shropshire. After . a few words, which did not reach the gallery, from Lord G.' SOMERSET, -- ir. SCOTT said 'that he could h hiv a iee r s d inb ly obue un fn d r erstand the reason ha; a f for r any the rate, application iif i t w oe were e the r a n H t e o d r. ; cd ca 11 B o i p r o m n in t g e House to do him equal justice, and allow his petition to be heard before the Committee. Mr. SPOONER could not consent to withdraw his motion. The prelent was a case of a novel and an important character, and should be decided at once. He hoped and trusted that it would be allowed to undergo the investigation of a Committee. As be was not inclined to oppose the wishes of the Houses, he should withdraw his motion. Motion withdrawn accordingly. KILMARNOCK AND TROON RAILWAY. This Bill, on the motion of Dr. BOWRING, was read a third time and passed. Messengers from the Lords brought in several Bills. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. in 0 0 e; oga n li .i t B, b ully : , l ifo m ,o o troh t tp i ah o t n egt l o i ifevoeShui noticeS l b r e. J t h. divided GRAHAM, ihdeeds inutled it was agreei that the House at its rising, should adjourn till Wednesday. being removed from NOTICES OF MOTION. Dr. BOW RIN G being into the Exchequer, in which they se going intoCo m mitteemove , two, o all other purposes, from limited to the exemption of poor persons from the liability of eg th ßpr e ein m isnlird o toe t ß i d o be. n ; , but fora return of the amounts not paid departments of revenue, tleducted for costs of collection, and the gross amounts received by all the separately stated. Also, a return of Gentleman asked only until Wednesdey to settle these details, lie thought that such an interval should not be denied him. Mr. BRIGHT said, that in the course of his observations, the Hon. Member fol. Finsbury had said, that the clerk of a union at, or near Stafford, had refused to allow a rate payer of the district to inspect the returns, or to give acme information which he sought for. He (Mr. Bright) had received a letter which stated that the assertion was not correct, as far as the union clerk was concerned. He would read a portion of that letter to the House. It stated that the clerk had et all times, in the performance of the duties of his office, given every opportunity for inquiry ; but that, with regard to the refusal stated by the Hon. M em b er f or Finsbury, no such application i was ever made to him, nor did h e k now until lately that was asserted that stay informati on h a d b een denied. i'he letter als3 stated that the returns of the 9th of February, 1816, were made, and th a t th ey comer ehendedevery particular care i e c fully was necessary t o ment i on. He wt hit (Mr. Bright) was sure that there was no u n i on c l er k i n the countrymore disposed t o d o his duty, and h e h a d no d oubt that the H on Member for Fins bury had laboured under some mistake, or had received erro neous information from other parties. Lord HARRY VANE trusted that the House would accede to the sugge s t ion o f t h e Noble Lord the Memberfor London. His opinions were not quite similar to those entertained by the Noble Lord, b u t h e was anxious that the question should be discussed at some f uture time, when the House possession of th e circumstances. He thou g h t the Hoaussmewould adopt a most in conven i ent course if they entered then nn recommendation of what they had passed so recently as Friday last. Such a course wou ld create as muchsur • country as that express e d b y t h e Hon. Genptleismean in the at their adoption of the instructions of the Hon. Member for it al ton. Mr. P. BORTHWICK considered that the subject ought to be referred to a Select Committee, and expressed his in tention of proposing the adoption of that course in the event of the Hon. Member for Finsbury moving the rejection of the in structions. Mr. DUNCOMBE considered it would be better for the House to go into Committee pro formd, in order that they might have an opportunity of moving the rejection of the in structions. Sir ROBERT PEEL thought the House had better see the Bill before they came to any decision respectin g it.— (Hear.) It was an important Bill, and every o n e would ac quiesce in the necessity of giving the utmost attention to it. It would be best to print the Bill, and afterwards to discuss the subject of union settlements. Mr. O'CONNELL said the Right Hon. Baronet the Secre tary of State for the Home Department informed him, in an early stage of the Bill, that it was his intention to apply it to the poor of Ireland. He trusted that nothing would be intro duced into it to prevent this, arid therefore he wished to know if he intended to carry out that principle in the Bill as amended? Sir JAMES GRAHAM intended that all Ireland should be included in the provisions of the Bill. Mr. BORTHWICK should object to the House going into Committee pro fosenci, in order to embody in the Bill the in structions of the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. DUNCOMBE said he should take the sense of the House on his motion, as he considered that the House ought not to be put to the trouble of going into Committee until the nature of the Bill had been determined in a full House. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said the instructions were agreed to, after great discussion, on Friday evening. The clauses were prepared, and he believed the Hon. Member for Melton had seen them. As he stated he had not yet had an opportunity of reading them, but in the course of two hours he had no doubt he should be enabled to look over them, so that the House might go into Committee pro . forni, and as the House would not sit to-morrow, they might be able to discuss it on Wednes day ; but, unfortunately, the business before the House would not admit of that. However, on Thursday he hoped they might enter into a discussion of its merits. Colonel WOOD had given notice that to-day he should hope to confine the attention of the House to one simple clause, viz., that a person who had been resident in a parish should not be liable to removal out of it. Mr. DUNCOMBE understood the Hon. Member to mean that the two projects should be included in one Bill, in order that they might have the pleasure of separating them after wards.— ( Cheers. ) The amendment was withdrawn. ENLISTMENT OF SOLDIERS. Captain L A YARD asked the Right Hon. the Secretary at War, whether there was any truth in the statement that had ap peared in the Times newspaper, with respect to the limitation of the period of enlistment, as connected with clause 8? Mr. S. HERBERT said the Gallant Officer was correct in his surmises as to clause 8, and that an alteration had taken place with respect to the period of enlistment of soldiers. THE GAUGE QUESTION. Mr. C. WOOD wished to ask the chief Minister of the Crown, what opinion the Government had formed with respect to the gauges? Sir R. PEEL thought it was necessary that the opinion of the Government on that important subject (the gauge) should he made known as speedily as possible, because the progress of different railway Bills would no doubt be impeded until the decision of the Government was made public. He believed that the proceeds of the Commission appointed to inquire into the subject of the broad and narrow gauges, and their opinion 'lad been reported in the shape of a minute, which had been laid on the table. The best and most satisfactory course which he could pursue would be to move that those minutes be nrinted, so that by to-morrow morning every Member in that House might have a copy in his hand. CASE OF SIR CHARLES TAYLOR. Mr. COLLETT said the Bth of June had now arrived, and the time had elapsed when he was to have received an answer from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State, with respect to copies of affidavits which had been submitted to him in the case of Sir Charles Taylor. He called upon the Right Hon. Gentleman to submit to the House the result of his investigation of those affidavits, and he also wished him to state whether Sir Charles Taylcr was still in the commission of the peace. Sir JAMES GRAHAM replied that since the conduct of Sir Charles Taylor had been brought under the attention of the House, he had made the mo s t m i nu t e i nqu i ry w i t h respect to the truths of the charges brought against him. The result of his investigation of the first charge was that the Hen. Member had relied upon the statement of a convicted felon, and that his statement was incorrect. He did not believe the truth of the statement. Since then the Hon. Member had proposed a new case—had brought new charges against Sir Charles Taylor, on the affidavits of different persons, and had furnished him with those affidavits. He had carefully con sidered those affidavits, and was of opinion that it was un necessary to take any further proceedings with respect to tie matter. With respect to the last question of the Hon. Gen tleman, he did not hesitate to tell him that Sir Charles Taylor did hold her Majesty's commission. Mr. P. SCROPE was aware that several charges had been made against Sir Charles Taylor, who had been put to con siderable inconvenience and anxiety with respect to the pub lication of them in the papers. Sir Charles Taylor had sought his advice upon the subject, and had asked him whether he could take proceedings in a court of law, or in that House, against the lion. Member for Athlone. His advice was, that he should not take any proceedings in the matter, as the truth would become apparent, and his character would be cleared. If such charges were brought against one magistrate, they might be brought against all. Mr. COLLETT said that he still most conscientiously be lieved that the allegations were true.—(Order, order.) Mr. NEWDEGATE felt satisfied that the charges which were made against Sir Charles Taylor were utterly groundless, and he did hope that the House would take some means of pro tecting an individual who was unable to defend himself from the attacks of any Hon. Member in that House. Mr. WAKLEY observed, that there was only one course open to the House to adopt, and that was for the appointment of a Committee. After the statement of the Hon. Member, that he fully believed that the allegations contained in the de positions were true, and after the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet, that he did not intend to institute any further inquiry, he was satisfied that no case more admitted or re quired a complete inquiry than the present. Mr. BANKES objected to any further inquiry, as he consi dered the appointment of a Committee would be an imputation on the veracity of the House, and be holding them up to pub lic scandal. Mr. HUME thought it was much to the honour of any Member, when he heard of any act of injustice having been done by a magistrate, to interfere and protect the victim of magisterial ignorance or tyranny. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he was unacquainted with Sir Charles Taylor, but if blame attached to any one, he thought it attached to him. He slid consider that there should be some course adopted which would prevent Members coming forward and making such accusations as those made against Sir Chas. Taylor, when they were based upon wholly ground k'ss fabrications; and that would be the only proper method of meeting out justice upon such occasions. And now, with re .nect to the legality of these affidavits—they were perfectly so, but they were nullities, and no civil action would lie upon them, nor could a civil action be brought to recover damages against any person who had made them falsely. He did trust hat the Hon. Gentleman would come forward himself when he had inquired a little more into the case, and he would apologise. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK—The Hon. Member for Montrose expressed his surpiise that his lion. Friend below (Mr. Bankes) should have shown so much warmth upon this occasion, but he should have felt much surprise if his Hon. Friend had not shown warmth, for it would be as much as to say that he was wanting in all the feelings which charac terise an English gentleman—that he was wanting in those feelings of generosity which betray a noble spirit—had he been ! enabled to have heard those charges brought against an Hon. Gentleman, 80 years of age, who had been a magistrate more than half a cesturk. What, were they to grant a Committee of Inquiry into that Hon. Gentleman's conduct 1 He trusted not. If they were to grant a Committee, it should be one to inquire whether an Hon. Member had been the instrument of a foul, a false, a scandalous charge against an Hon. Gentleman. Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said, it appeared to him that they were making much to do about nothing. The Hon. Member for Athlone, they were all aware, upon these subjects was a monomaniac. The House were quite aware that if they sent down into the county towns they would get a lot of fellows to swear anything, and Sir Charles Taylor had made himself obnoxious to the people by his strict adherence to the laws. indeed, he conside,ed the Hon. Member owed an apology for having brought forward the charge. —( Hear, hear. ) Mr. BRIGHT said, in the extreme desire which the House manifested to do justice to Sir Charles Taylor, they quite for got to do justice to the Member for Athlone. That Hon. Gentleman had given the question very minute inquiry, and he had found a confirmation of his former statements. He (Mr. Bright) had himself seen the woman who had purchased the game, and he had seen her husband also ; and there was no thing in her appearance, or in her manner, or in her conduct, which would alter his belief in her statements. But he would draw their attention to a fact which had lately appeared in a Worcester journal, that a gamekeeper had laid a snare in which he placed dead game in a field, through which there was a path to a church, in order that some person might be found to take it ; and could they doubt that if any person had done so he would be punished for it? And if the Hon. Gentleman was a monomaniac, he wished more persons would adopt his views with reference to the game-laws.—(A laugh from Lord George Bentinck. ) Mr. COLLETT regretted to intrude himself upon the House, but he could not sit quietly by when such ees ere anima aeversions had been ma d e on a Member of that - House. He had inquired into the character of Sir Charles Taylor, and he found there was not a more honourable raan.—(Hear, hear. ) He did consider that the Hon. Member ought either to sub stantiate his charges or to apologise.—The subject was then allowed to drop. COERCION BILL (IRELAND). Mr.POULETT SCROPE said, he would postpone the reso lutions which he had upon the paper—resolutions respecting remedial measures which should certainly accompany such a measure as that at present proposed for Ireland. Sir WILLIAM SOMER VILLE said, he had to move that this Bill (the Irish Coercion Bill) be read this day six months. lie had hoped that her Majesty's Government would have abandoned this measure, and he was sorry that they hail shown a perseverance with it worthy of a better cause. Ile contended that the Government had not made use of all the powers which were vested in them by the law of the land , to put down the dist ur b e d state of Ireland. They had sent a Special Commissio n t o W estmeath, but they had ta k en care to send down before band to know what evidence they could c s ol e le d ct th to e support c onv i ct i ons. Now, he asked, they pursued n believes! same course with regard to Limerick and C that they had not; if they had, he withdrew the charge. — ( Hear, h ear .) Th e people of Ireland resisted the law, as it did not press fairly upon them; they had a rooted dislike for , English law, and how were they to remove that feeling? Why, not by coercive acts, but by kind and paternal govern , ment. Since the union, a period when Ireland was not governed by a Coercion Bill, was the exception. ' He begged the House not to be led away by their feelings in the discussion of this question. He was very much struck with what fell from the Honourable Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire on a former occasion. In a'luding to the murder of the late Lord Norbury, he depicted te,e shtick which his feelings sustained by that occurrence. They all knew, however, how that crime was perpetrated; hut, stringent as the Rill was, it would be ineffective to prevent the occurrence of such horrible assassinations. They had for a calms:. of cen turies endeavoured to put the whole population of Ireland nut of the pale of the law, and they could not expeet, after such treatment, they could have a peaceable and contented body of people. The people of Scotland gave a proof of the inefficacy of keeping the inhabitants of a country in subjection when no care was taken to show them that they were the objects of the law's protection. Archbishop Sharpe, of 'Glasgow, fell a vic tim to the mob in that city, when the people were influenced by similar exasperating circumstances as the people of Ireland. To use the words of Mr. Burke, the Governrneet " were fret ting the people of Ireland with a feverish existence." And they might depend upon it, that as long as they did not legis late for the interests of the people, and the protection of their rights, so long would they and their measures be regarded with feelings of hostility. He would not enter at greater length into the question, as he had already oecupied their at tention so recently on the specific merits of the Bill. It was said, the other night, in refe:ence to the diminution of crime in Ireland, that that was owing to the debates which took place on the Bill in this House, and also to the terror caused by its having passed the House ot Lords. He could assure the spelithowever,took fthat House, people a dit cllr. o e f d l i r e e e l s a . nd H k n o e c w ou l l i t t i tl e ot what not close the few remarks he thought 9n his duty to make, without call ing their attention to ite time before the House. On the 21,11e0f during whieh this Bill was f a i r:nary last the Bill was first alluded to in the speech from the throne , and her Ma jesty's Government nearly a month afterwards brought for ward this measure. After numerous delays and procrastina tions February was allowed to pass, and it was March before th e Bill rece i ved the sanction ofthteheiioeundse of of Lords. Irrespectiv e o f th e mer i ts of the Bill, howeeerh would ask if crime had b een as prevalent in Durham, York shi re, and cther counties of England, as it had been repre sented to have been in I re l an d, wou ld they for an instant have tolerated the Gcvernment to defer the consideration of a measure for its repression for the space of five months ? (Hear, hear.) He would ask the Noble Lord (Lord G. Ben tinck) would he have done so ? After making an extract• from the former speech of the Noble Lord to show that he would not, the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to say that if it were true that assassination was so prevalent in Ireland, they ought to have taken more decisive and immediate steps with regard to the present Bill. He did not wish to trouble the House longer. He was quite certain that the Bill was altogether unnecessary, and he trusted that the Noble Lord (George Bentinck) would follow out his own declaration, and oppose it. He very much regretted that the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland should have made this the first public act of his in regard to that country. He would conclude by moving as an amendment, that the Bill he read a second time that day six months. Mr. BERNAL rose to second the motion. He was free to confess, that when a similar Bill was proposed formerly, he supported it, but he was not confirmed, by any salutary expe rience he had of its effects, of the propriety of giving his sup port to the present measure. He asked them, was that the only remedy they had for the grievances of that country ? (No, no.) The Hen. and Gallant Member said "No." Well, then, what other remedies did they propose to meet the evils under which that country laboured? lie knew of certain parts of Ireland which at that moment were suffering from the greatest distress, and indeed he must say, that all through Ireland very general distress existed. Mr. DILLON BROWN here moved that the House be counted Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. On our return, there being 40 Members present, Mr. BERNAL resumed. II; was sorry to find that during the discussion of a quest i on of so much importance to Ireland, barely 40 Members were present.—( Hear. hear.) He could not see that such a Bill a s th e present could t:ave the effect of preventing crime in Irela n d, If part i es i n that country were inclined to commit murder, thi3 measure would not prevent them, and, therefore, the objeet for which it was introduced was entirely defeated. Her Majesty's Ministers said that in February last midnight murderers were sta'kieg, firth in a for midable manner, and assassinations were taking place in many parts of Ireland, and to put a stop to sueli crime, they thought fit to introduce the present measure. He could not see why it was, that if the measure was for any good at all, it should have been delayed to the month of June. To put a stop to crime which existed in February, no legislative measure was brought forward till that evening, and he thought that the long delay which had taken place ty - eg a virtual abandonment of the Bill ; indeed, he had thought that they were to hear no more of it, and he was sure that at this period, when Ireland was in a state of quiet, no such measure should be brought forward. He believed that if they were to take the feeling of the people of this country on s uc h + a measue, it would be found against it. The people of England were not in favour of sending the Irish peasantry to Van Diemen's Land for criain committed through the misery they endured ; for it was well known to the people of this country that starvation was at the bottom, in fact, the root of all the crime committed in Ireland, and they would be for preparing other measures for remedying the evils whivh afflicted that country.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. DILLON BROWNE again moved that the House be counted, when strangers were ordered to withdraw; but it having been found that there were forty Members present, Mr. BERNAL again resumed. The House could not be surprised at the crime in Ireland when it was to be taken into consideration that the juries in that country were not impar tially chosen without respect to creed.—( Hear.) He was told that the people of Ireland placed no faith in the impartiality of such juries, ann those that came before them felt but little hope of impartial justice, chosen as they were for their political partisanship.—(Hear, hear). What had they done for the people of Ireland? Had they brought forward any great question ? Had they proposed any great legislative measure to relieve the distress which existed? The Government told them that they were full of good intentions towards Ireland ; but the House would bear in mind that those intentions were never brought to bear in her favour.—( Hear, hear.) Year after year they were hearing of the distress in Ireland, and still nothing was done for that country. It was well known that the peasantry of Ireland had no settlement, no claim on the land, and from this fact had emanated many of the evils com plained of. It was well known the agrarian crimes committed arose from the unsettled state of the landed tenure of Ireland, and it was to this state of things that the Government should turn its attention..--( Hear, hear.) It was evident that this Bill was most untimely brought forward, for it had been re marked by several Peers who had voted for the mea sure that if they were aware it would have been delayed for this period they would not have voted for it. There must have been some reason for this change.—( Hear, hear.) It was quite a romance to think that a Bill which was brought forward to put a stop to midnight murders should be delayed to a period when no such crimes were committed.— (Hear. hear.) It was a measure more fitting for Mexico than for Ireland at the present moment, and it was because he saw that it was uncalled for that he voted for the amendment pro posed. No Hon. Member having risen, and there being a cry of ,‘ Divide," The SPEAKER put the question and amendment, upon which strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took place ; and on our re-admission to the gallery, Mr. OSBORNE was addressing the House. He said that the Noble Lord opposite knew nothing whatever of the country or of the question at all. In fact, with regard to Ireland, there was not a man in that House more ignorant, with-the best intentions, than the Noble Lord, the unsuccessful candidate for Nottingham ; but he begged to tell the Noble Lord that the way to deal with Ireland was not by maintaining an aristo cratic silence on the opposition benches. But he understood that the Noble Lord accounted for his silence upon one occa sion by declaring that a man would require to be six years in Ireland before he could answer any questions in respect to the mode of governing her, However, he (Mr. Osborne) would pass over the Noble Lo-d's opinion in this respect, bat he would call upon the First Minister of the Crown not to deal with this measure in this way, for he would ask, was it right or was it respectful to Ireland to deal with this measure in this way I.—( Hear, hear.) The Earl of LINCOLN said he c uld assure the House, and the Hon. Member who had last spoken, and who had made a speech which contained charges that he felt assured could not be justified by the circumstances, that though he might be ignorant of Ireland, and Irish affairs, be would wish, in reply to the Honourable Member, who had seconded the amendment, to address himself to the subjects touched upon by him, and to explain his views and the views of the Government upon this question. But here let him remark, that when this House had been twice counted out within a few minutes, and when he looked at the benches op posite, and when he saw there only three or four of the repre sentatives of Ireland, he should say it did appear to him that they did not bestow much attention to the measure; and he should add, that it would be acting a more becoming part, and appear more respectful to Irish measures, if he, however igno rant of them, yet as the Secretary for Ireland. had endeavoured to postpone to a later period of the evening those observations he had to make, and which ho would not shrink from making at any time, upon this subject. Nothing appeared to him more probable than that he should be taunted with having risen at a time when nobody expected he would have done , so, or that he had shrunk from the opportunity of raising his voice in favour of this measure, when a large number of the Iris's Members should be present. When he had heard several voices cry out for a division, he did not wish to rise at that moment, as he thought there might be others present who would wish to take a part in the discussion ; but when he did not see any other Member prepared to do so, he then rose, and he begged to assure the House it was per fectly immaterial to him at what period cf the night he ad dressed the House, for he was not so vain as to desire to see it crowded, while he was making a speech. Now, having made these observations, in answer to the violent assault which had been made upon him by the Hon. Member opposite, be would proceed to apply himself to the subject now under discussion, and in doing so he begged to assure the House that he would endeavour to avoid all mention of irritating topics or party allasions. He would endeavour to confine what he had to say to a defence of this Bill, and a justification of the provisions it contained. The Hon. Member for Drogheda had done him the honour to say that it must have been with pain that he (Lord Lincoln) had assumed the post of Ireland.RSaercorneetta,rythfoartitwa'.wHitn pain the he eighhatd risen in e in the di sc h arge of his official couldmuch duty to garss p e r nu o tre p er ose this measure, but as it was a duty he would not shrink from it. He need not remind the House that when first this measure was introduced, the Gov' rm ertw u e r t s •e e tshueby jected to all manner of charges with regard to the course were adopting, lion. Members opposite had said that this measure was introduced without reason or excuse, or justifi cation ; and th ose H on. Members on his side, who sat below the gangway, said that the m eas u re h a d b e en delayed too long. Now, he conceived that the first of those charges had been disposed of by the first discussion which had taken place, and it had always been held good that it was not cdoeszbi appeal press on such a measure hastily, and he thought measure to the general policy of the present Government diction to the assertion that this h ad b eb e ne e t na is ntroduced r c o o d r e a d without reason, or excuse, Act to this existed in the him remind the House that a similar withouty ai* 1 3 or justification, for doing so. Let Government reva. et . allowed five afidv calyearsalso l allowed elapse ed il the deprived of many of Unlawful Oaths' Act, it had been its Party Processions Act to expire; and though they had revised the 5 attempting nndy et the to most t offensive and onoxious clauses. Then there was the , which the Noble Lord, whom he now (Lord Clements), gave such stre nuous oppos.t • that that Act had not beers put in force in any offen on, Arm sitting at saw Act , theo bar i ve m anner. With regard to the charge . of having delayed this Bill too long, he begged to ray he did' notfhink that that charge lay at the door of the Government. But he would much rather bear with such a charge th .n let it be said they were pressing it on too hastily. The Hon. Baronet opposite complained of this delay, and yet he moved the postponement of the measure ; and therefore if there was any offence in delay, the Hon Mem ber opposite participated in it. His Right Hon. Friend near him had been accused of not wishing to pass the Corn Bill, or he would not have pressed on the first leading of the Bill— and yet they were charged with delay. This Bill had been spoken of as an unconstitutional measure, and it should be ad mitted that it was so, but it could only he justified by a stern necessity, and in such a state of things as where life and pro perty were not protected by the law now within the compass of the Constitution.' In fact, the only liberty that now existed in _ 7l:-1- :: :k7 , :--- , -- . 71.11 ; .' Ireland was liberty far murder and outrage ; but the AO'. -. .: '-, ' ..,....• liberty for the protection of the peaceable and those w mil:pad_ be protected ; and let him remind the House that t 'r)e*".-:.. -:•., ,--- + , sure was intended to be applied to five counties only, \iie,,' - i.: „.. disease, through epidemic, he feared was contagious in ma 'italtaN, , - also. The measures previously introduced had been suce ;:'.,: 4 ,...-e: i i -- .‘ 4 ,4N 1 though they had not been brought into operation. ;.. f Ay L" c rty._ had been successful in operating on the minds of the people 43. Ireland. On the previous debate there had been so many cases adduced in support of the Bill, that he hesitated now in troubling them further. He knew, however, that it was more by cumulative instances, than by a few strong cases, that such a meaoire as the present ought to be grounded. The Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir John Somerville) in the course of his speech observed, that he considered the Government were bound to do three things. In the first place, they were bound to show the necessity for the measure; in the second place, that the state of things complained of could not be put down by the operation of the laws; and in the third place they were hound to show that there was a fair prospect of the Bill being effectual and efficacious in working a change. He (Lord Lincoln) was ready to admit that this was a fair representatio n of the duty of the Government in intro ducing such a Bill ; and if they were not already satisfied with the cases that had been given in support of the measure, he was willing to establish the case still further. But before doing so he must refer to a statement made by the Hon. and Learned Member fur Cork (Mr. O'Connell), who affirmed that the disorders complained of principally, if not mainly, were of an agrarian character, and were to be got rid of; by a Bill for regulating the position of landlord and tenant, and measures of a similar kind. By a careful examination of the criminal returns, he (Lord Lincoln) found this statement disprovedcor no pi n e g t h ely therew as some; and he connexionshould ro v prove tetweento the House that w these as outrages nnt j n s justified fi a e n d d the in stating land, t h the thatHweern e . eo a if n t ia d i ne r L a e ,gt a hr i ae -t r i eimadnaGjcoherniatrtylaecmnt character. They large proportion ;of the crim h e of life. To use the language fe red with, prove butt h a that that not t n o e n y l y e • n t t e e r landlord into of everyt a h n e d 0 tr Honourable tenant tl er relationship l a a r t e i n i n n s t ah e ni r dp judiced source than the Commission autho rise d ,ii s e a sLearneddiseased." , ' AI Member er provef or this, Cork, he go o b o tcloyb a 3 moret 1i eGovern ment corporate u n p w r e a .. 1 months ago, presented its report. The " the could w n h o o t l c Devon had pre sidehe referred was that over which Lord De particular attention atte h n e tion ( to inquire into the state of Ireland, and ' which, three .h Miller, superintendentL (Lord fdfto the returns police. tLincoln)he fHouse Theseu Commission to wine in the first volume of the appendix furnished by Colonel add, were arrived at, with the view of establishing ahefaemt might call the se w i s returns, he d t° disputes respecting land were at the bottom of these outrages. This, however, was not proved by the returns furnished. The offences, as furnished in 1844 by the constabulary police, are given as agrarian, and otherwise. In that year there was the alarming number of 6,337 cases of outrage. Of this number 5,336 were not agrarian, there being only 1,001 which were o f an agrarian character, or less than one-third. But of this 1,001 there were 417 which were not strictly agrarian, but were cases of threatening notices. These, strictly speaking, should be deducted. If they went into minute particulars, the case was stronger still. They would then see that crimes of the worst character were not agrarian, as the following would show : Ineendhry fires, not agrarian „ „ agrarian Assaulting and threatening life, not agarian... 238 , 1 VI agrarian . .... 12 Aggravated assault, not agrarian 99 „ agrarian 4O Firing at the person, not agrarian..... „ agrarian 47 Homicides, not agrarian. .. ..... ' , agrarian This clearly showed that the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Cork was not borne out by facts and figures. These returns had been classified as agrarian and not agrarian at the desire of the Commission, with the object of showing, no doubt, that agrarian outrages were at the bottom of these outrages, but this had not been borne out by the results. In further exemplification, he would refer to returns which he had laid on the table of the House last Friday, and which had been printed that morning. They were so voluminou s that he did not apprehend Hon. Members could have examined them yet ; but they would find, if they investigated, that what he had stated respecting the nature of the outrages was snore than borne out. He would read a few extracts as bearing on the case. He had classified them as far as time would allow, and they exemplified the real social state of the five counties in which the outrages had most prevailed. The first class frem which he would read was that relating to crimes arising out of disputes between the landlords and tenants, but not strictly of an agra rian character.—(Hear.) He would remark that this was a very small class in comparison with ihe others. The first case he would refer to, was that of an attack of a person of the name of Kelly, whose house, on the 1:3!li of December, was entered at night by a body of men whose faces were blackened. They demanded Kelly, and were told that he was from home. They sent a search and found his horse ; then they made a strict examination of the premises, when Kelly was found, and abused and threatened that his life would be taken if he did not treat his tenants with more kindness. The tenants referred to were parties living on the property, but refused to pay any rent. He knew some of the parties, and was willing to lodge informations, but he durst not move in the case until he had sold off his stock, and he could not do so if it was known he would proceed against the parties. No one would purchase from him. He would go from this class to another, compelling servants to leave their employment. On the 29th of January, in the county of Wicklow, six persons entered the house of a farmer and beat a servant of the name of Michael, because he would not leave. There was another case in which seven men beat a servant because he would not leave so as to afford employment for some other parties. The Noble Lord read several other eases of the same kind from the counties of Wicklow and Tipperary. He had one case which would show a minuteness of interference so strange as likely to excite a smile from Hon. Members, On the 23th of Dec., three armed men assaulted a female servant employed by Samuel Cowe, Esq., and that gentleman was fired at by the parties. The complaint was that the servant, a dairymaid, was too penurious in her supply of milk to the labourers. The next case to which he would refer was interference to compel masters to discharge servants. On the 27th July last, in the county of Tipperary, an armed party as saulted a gentleman, because he would not dis miss certain labourers that were obnoxious to them. He would now proceed to another class of offences, namely, that to prevent persons entering into particular trades, or pre venting competition in the county of Clare. On October the 26th, at seven o'clock in the evening, the steward of a steam. boat was violently assaulted by five men, because he got his supply of milk from parties to whom they objected, and did not deal with those which they desired. Another case hap pened on the 25th of August, in the county of Leitrim of a similar character. In the county of Roscommon three car riers were violently assaulted by seven men, because they fed their horses at the house of a particular party, and not at a place where the assaulting persons were desirous they should do so. There was another case which he could quote contained in the returns he had laid upon the table of the House that evening ; but he thought he had already read a sufficient quantity of these cases. He had read more of this class than he had origi nally intended, because they tended to show that crime could only exist where, by some means or other, society had been greatly disorganised. Now, with the permission of the House, he would read a class of cases sander the heads of " Pre. venting the Recovery of Debts," and " The Enforcement of Contracts." In January last, Michael Doctrine, in the county of Roscommon, was seriously maltreated because he had en forced a contract in returning a cow which did not turn out according to agreement. In February, a man named Mac Carty was waylaid and brutally ill-used because he recovered money on certain I 0 U vouchers. On the 7th April, in the same city, a man named Thomas Croft was " sworn' to refund a debt which he had received ten years before. He felt he was trespassing too long upon the time and attention of the House with these details, but it was necessary that he should go into them,, in order that the House should see the necessity for passing this Bill. There was, therefore, another class of eases to which he must refer. They were comprised under the heads of " compelling people to marry," " not to marry," or " to give fortunes to particular persons going to get married." On the 31st January last, Michael Byron, a comfortable farmer in Roscommon, was " sworn" to fulfil his promise to marry" a certain female." On 21st February Richard Guyer's house was burned, to prevent a particular, marriage taking place. About the same period a man named Turnan was beaten, and " sworn to marry a particular female." The next class of eases to ' which be must call thea in t the 2, and 2 n d tention of the House, arose out I(3)utt giving t iv w in otld evidenceonly be against persons who violated the ue la , of September, a man named maltreated and beaten, for having his daughter, were seriously cilnasßs.oscOomn necessary for him to read one s e niith, f l w i tiis g had lately occurred in the county of Leitrim, where a nature , ' intimidateher son not to prosecute a given evidence in a particular case. Another case of the same widow was " sworn to . 1844. He would n ow , charge which had been preferred in against certain parties o f having murdered her husb and with the permis s ion of the House, read to them some de his official roatine. There were five cases reported to hi m , tails which he rece i ved yesterday in the ordinary course o f and three of them were cases of gross interference with the social and domestic relations of life. He hoped the House would understand why he had selected these particular classes of cases. He had done so because it had been stated by Hon. Gentlemen .opposite that the outrages perpetrated in Ireland were principally of an agr ar i an character. There was one par ticular case of an agrarian character, which had recently come to his knowledge, and which he must read to the House. It occurred in the county of Roscommon, where three men, armed with pistols and bludgeons, broke into the house of a poor man, and demand e d th a t h e s h ou ld go d own en his knees to be threefacosendsetlouednocesowaws ihtheowutasknimowmiendgiawtehlyy a " n s d w o w r h n e . r ' e ' f 0 r T e l: e a n m d an fired at and wounded in three parts of his body. He was then " sworn" to give up possession in favour of his brother-in-law, who had occupied the cottage and lands some seven years be= fore. He thought he had sufficiently shown the House that there was no relationship in life in Ireland, eitbersocial or domestic, which was not interfered with ; to while,the c sea the House wou ld t a k e th e trouble to lookin they would find that it was impossible inman Having en y parts of the country that public duties could be performed.asked what was th e cause of these outrages, tered into these details, het m i g ht be h e regretted his inability t o answer that question. From bat evidence before Lord Devon' s would be seen by the answers of a Mr. Cahill, Commission, it .. . solicitor, that these outrages arose a Roman Catholic sessional out of an organised system prev ailing in the country to avenge d satisfy malice in t he manner he had stated. He disputes an now came to another important part of the statement he was anxious • to make to the House. The Hon. and Learned Member for Cork, incidentally observed the other night, that since the introduction of this Bill crime had considerably diminished in Ireland, and the lion, and Learned Member at tributed that diminution to the exertions Government were making to remove the distress which existed in many parts of Ireland. He admitted that to some extent crime might have diminished within the last three or four months in Ireland, but when he looked to the cause of that diminution, he did not think that it could be urged against the second reading of this Bill. Hitherto it had been ascertained that as the days lengthened crime diminished. And to some extent he was ready to admit that the measures of Government for giving employment to the destitute poor had tended to reduce crime in Ireland; but let him remind the House that both the distress and the remedy was of a temporary character, and it was, therefore, their duty to provide for the future. He, however, deeply regretted that with regard to this supposed di minution of crime, it was his duty to undeceive the • Hon. and Learned Member for Cork. In the early part of the evening he laid upon the table of the House certain papers to which he had alluded in the course of the observations he had felt it his duty to address to the House; they were the returns of crimes perpetrated in Ireland from the 31st December to the 31st Alay, the first five months in the present year. He regretted that these returns had not been in the hands of Hon. Members to enable them to check or compare his statements with the de tailed returns, but the truth was they only reached him yesterday, and, of course, he could not lay them on the table before that evening. This was a return of all aggravated crimes, assaults, and other offences whi c h were com mitted between the month of May, 1845, and the month of May, 1846. It was only necessary, in order to su b s t an ti a t e the correctness of this comparison , that he should state that this return did not include outrages neither age.s neither did or injuries designated as assaults on the police; -4