The Sun. — London, England, 1823-02-22 00:00:00

ids intende4 to go ist Aloe length into the reasons - which - dice Anted this course, but they were so obvious that he thought the Sousa would pardon him it he declined executing that pur -pow. But it was material that he should describe th e m od e i n wPlich he proposed to give effect to his plan. He proposed that the reductions should be panty absolute . and partly par tial. The Assessed Taxes were classed under four heads—the Duties on Windows—those on Inhabited Houses—the Duties, on Horses ; and the fourth (a very small item) the tax on Dogs, and Armorial Bearings, &c. He proposed to leave the last class precisely as they were at present ; as he saw no sufficient grounds for reducing them. He thought it right to leave those of the Assessed Taxes which were least complained of, and he _sold confess that what he should recommend would have fee its object to diminish those biirthens which were most ly felt by that class ••whose 'Mistress had so long heen . deplered by the House. He wished to afford the , lantkal in terest every possible relief.' lk therefore was of opinion' that the Inhabited House Tax might remain, and he propoeed . to remit no portion of that. With respect to the other classes, they comprehended a variety of small items, which in their 'operation pressed exceedingly harshen individuals--were--werein the collectiareintolerably vexatious, constantly giving occasion to eternal surcharges, which doubled the inconvenience to be en dured, both to those who paid them and to those by whom they were collected. He should therefore propose the absolute re -peal of many of these smaller items which he should now take the liberty to state to the Holies.. The first item to which he should ellude applied to persons under the head of Male .Ser. vanes, occasionally employed in Trade or Agriculture. It was obvious that the duties in question were excessively embarrass ing and led to endless disputes, which made the Assessed Taxes more unpalatable (he would not use a stronger word) than they would be merely from the amount paid—he there fore 'proposed their entire repeal. Their amount (the duties) on oeceitional Nish; Servants) be stated at 37,200/. There were tioties impulsed on another class of persons whom he had al ways regarded us ill suited to bear taxation—he meant those individuals who were returned in the schedules as peen ' item) elardeners. The tax was intended to tall on those ' who kept a garden as a luxury ; and viewed in that light he had nothing to say aeainst it. But in many instances it had operated (tholAgil such WikS not the intention of the house) to Keep poor' people from being employed, because if a man was employed for a single week as an occasional gardener, the tax must be paid for the year. Its amount was ten shillings. --Thie was nut much, to be sure, but it made an additional return necessary, and be could not deny but there was some thing unpleasant -in being, compelled to make an additional entry in that paper which was annually presented from the Tsta-office.--(A laugh,)e—To say the truth, people did not like, because from chanty, or any other motive, .they occa. ;tonally etnpluyed a poor man as an occasional gardener to pay this tax, and therefore they would he pleased with its re peal. The amount of,this reduction he estimated at 19,7001. The next positive reduction which he had to propose was 'the duty on the lower class of Taxed Carts. A Petition had been preserited on this subject, and the Honourable Member for Aberdeen intended moving, on Monday, for a return connect ed with it. He should be welcome to • the paper which would then be given, as he hoped, for the list time. The repeal of 'the duties on the lower description of Taxed Carts, would Involve a surrender of Revenue to the amount of 9,3001. , Them was another ditty, the amount of which was very small, but which it VMS desirable to repeal, as it fell on those who Were least able to pay taxes. This was the duty of 3e. at pre. sent imposed on, Punits under thirteen hands high. Formerly when money. was wanted, they were obliged to take all they could get for a' whip-up . but to , the present circumstances of the country, there could be no objection to ,the repeal of this duty, which amounted to hut 44801. There was another duty of three shillings on Small Horses employed by Farmers in agriculture and also in tratle„ which produced 0,5001. This he 'proposed to abandon. :Having stated these absolute repeals which he meant to reeortunentl, he came now in addition, to state, that be intended to submit to the Committee. a reduction usual per cent. in the duties on Horses, Carriages, and Ser. vents. These imposes, thteugh they might be supposed to fall fir the most part, on persons of considerable .means, pressed tile° 9n those who were entitled to relief. '('he first item—the duties on Male Servants, amounted to 169,0001. That on per. sons employed as Clerks, gave to the Revenue 913,0501. The duty on hour-wheeled Carriages, which he proposed to re. duce, amounted to 145,0001. ; that on Two-wheeled Car. risges, to 90,0001. ; and the tax which he proposed_ to take of Riding Horses, he estimated. at 324,0001. ; and the hewer duty on Horses, which he proposed to seduce twenty per cent. would withdraw from the Revenue' 72,5001. He now came to a subject respecting which, all classes felt the deepest Internet, he meant the duties on Windows.—The ge nerd principle on which be proposed to act with respect to them, was to reduce them fifty per cent. ; but he proposed to give is.n eheolute repeal of the duty on tete particular class. The Committee ware probably aware that warehouses, shops, • and, ceenting.houtees attached to dwelling-houses were already exempt. He meant to propose the total exemption of the Ground Floor Windows of It Shops, whether. such shops were attached to houses or not. lie thought the relief thus afforded to the small trader would enable him to compete with those who at present had an unfair advantage over him, the owners of moveable shops, who sold their roods from a cart tail. The duty thus abandoned would amount to 150,0001. The total amount of taxes to be reduced was '1,2:33,0001. With respect to Ireland he had to announce,a measure of very considerable im portance. He proposed at since to repeal all the Assessed Taxes. ( I fear I)—lfe was sure the people in Erntland would not begrudge tide relief to their fellow e subjecte in Ireland. The amount of three duties was 100,0001. He did not know that this Repeal wouid produce any real defalcation in the revenue, but ,at all - events lie was anxious to witness the effect of a measure like that which he now recommended, and he thought the equeli zetion of the English and Irish Duties would nearly compensate for giving up the Assessed Taxes. There was no one connect ed with Ireland who did not lament the consequences of the present Distillery Laws. It was known that they occasioned great distress, misery and interruption of social intercourse. — The manner in which they were necessarily collected erected aired, The Distillery Laws made it the interest of the Land lord to protect his tenant in the violation, and they made it the interest of their tenant to live in opposition to the law. He could conceive no state of society more lament dale. There was nothing to keep the people of that country toeether, but every ski i ng t!, produceand perpetuate the most fate: separation. Ile therefore could not look on the Distillery Laws without wish. ing to alter them, to restore, the blessin,t of social inter course.. Such WO the object of the measure which be meant to propose, namely, a great reduction in the ditties of Irjeli h Whether the measure would succeed or not Gott only knew, hot at all events the experiment was worth making. Evers if it would have the effect of defeating his calculation as to .. the Surplus Revenue of the year (which he did not expect) he 60014%01 be anxious to attempt to remey the evil which he • find deseribed. Ile had now concluded ha statement. The re sult was, thet lie had en increased Revenue ; but lie ought first - to have stated thnt we had as increased Cemmerce which had produced an increased consumption and increased comforts to the people, whieh naturally gave an increase in the Revenue. We had a surplus ' of which a portion could be applied to the reduction of' the Debt, and the remaining might be given to the public in die remission of Taxes, which very remission would in its effects tend to compensate the Revenue for the reductions • now made. Ile called upon the'Committee after hearing this statement, to lonk back as lie did to the efforts which the coon - try had used--to the dangers which it had braved—to the difii- Calties which it, lout surmounted—and to the sacrifices it had made to aetomplish those great objects—he called upon, them i to look back on these things, and to recognize in the fortitude . which lied been reserved milting; anti which had accomplished much, a living proof of the veneration and attachment of • the rTople of Englend to those glorious institutions, which, el. iming civil and religious liberty for their basie, were the mighty uoleeeling eupportere ROd chief cauge of the greatness and prosperity of this country.-h(The flight lion. Gentleman • resumed his seat • militia loud chtere 'from all parts of the Howie.) INIATIERLEY commenced by saying, that as the /tight litionnrable Gentleman had deemed it expedient to apt). ' love to the house with all the advantages of his Officio] in. formation, he wa.s sure the House would feel that belied a very strong claim upon its indulgence. lie should proceed at once to the most important parts of the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement ; those .'hich. related to the reduction of taxation, and to the supptirt of public credit. The Right IforeGehtlernan had taket, credit to the flueernment for an immediate reduction in tit.- ihitimates, below the Estimstes of the Committee of 1017, by saying that they were a million and a-half lower. He would not admit their right to batch credit, because that reduction now =de was is complete censure on the Government for not having inede it sooner.--411ear, from Mr. Ileine.)—To slim the vigi. lance and atikiety of the Government, in evincing the Expen diture of the country, there was the tact, that it was not until last year, that the estitnatee had been brought 700,0001. under those of the Comniitteee and now they were a million anti a half below them. But if this reduction had taken place `at first, as recommended, there would have been saved to the country no teis than ten reillions. However, he was glad that liiiisters had, at last, attended to time Report of that Com,. mitten. The Right Ifonourehle Gentleman bad also stated, wtitat there was et considerable redaction in , the cameo; of 'Collecting the Revenue. Ile, of course, had not obtained a knowledge of whateliad boen done this year; but looking to usher years, there had been the same neglect of duty on:the Now of Government. 1810, the expences Of collecting the 'Revenue were 4,283,0001. In 1822, they were 4;151,0001., leaving the *hole ditTerence at 138,0001. Ile did not see that this evinced any great attention to economy. Again, the col. decries ottliellevenue in Ireland in 1818, waso9l,oool. In • 403, it was 801,0001, The Right Hon. ()cadet= had stated. that there was surplus of Revenue•amounting to '2,200,0001., which might be remitted to the country, and yet leave no dan ger of any deficiency to meet the services of the year. The great question between the Right Hon. Gentleman anti him self wait—the best means of supporting Public Credit. I The Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to keep it up by taking' tive millions of income to be applied to the reduction of Debt,— Now if he could phew that the Public Credit might be sup ported without tithing:five millions annually from tie pockets of the people, he thought the House would go along with him in reducing seven millions of • taxes instead of two. The old systems of Sinking Funds, instead of reducing Debt, had been strewn by some able calculations made by Mr. Marshall, to have crested above 30,000,0001. But it appeared that a new light wa r s now discovered ; and after destroying a Sinking Fund which bad existed for thirty years, they were to have anew one, .and as it. seemed to be agreed on all hands, the only efficient one ; namely, an excess of Income over Expenditure. The Right Hon. Gentleman' had not, however, said whether this new Sinking Fund was to accumulate by compound or by simple interest. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made a re mark in a low voice across the table, which was understood to be, that up to a certain point, the sinking Fund was intended to accumulate at cotnpoundinierest. :11r. MA BERLY proceeded.—According to all parties, the exploded system of a Sinking Fund had been nugatory ' • and consequently it could have afforded no real support. to Pub lic Credit. Yet the Public Credit had been raised to the highest pitch. And as Public Credit had not been supported by a Sinking Fund, it was fair to conclude that it was capa ble of standing without one. The proposition he intented to submit to the consideration of Parliament, anti of which he had already given notice, would enable them to repeal 7,000,0001. of taxes, and yet retain an efficient Sinking Fund, which would effect every purpose of reducing Debt. He should not detain the House, but proceed at once to put them in pos session of his measure. In the year 1798, Mr. Pitt brought in a Bill to provide for the Redemption and Purchase of Land Tax, and as his proposition went to facilitate the reduction of Debt by those means, he should usher it into the attenton of the House by Mr. Pitt's words. The Hon. Member here quoted Mr. Pitt's recommendation of his Act, which stated that one of its leading features would ,be, that it would absorb a great quantity of debt, and yet be most simple and easy in its opera. troll.lle (Mr. alaberly) should claim no - merit for this mea sure, and he 'could not possibly see what objection could be made to it. When 11r.• Pitt's Act was passed, the Land Tax amounted to 2.000,000/. Since that period 700,0001. had been redeemed, leaving between 12 and 13 hundred thousand unre deethed. The Hon. Member then went on to explain the rea son why the Act had not afterwards accomplished its object That reason was to be found in the exorbitant terms upon which. the purchaser could alone redeem the tax, after the expiration of a certain period. He proposed to render the re:. demption and purchase more easy, and by the disposal of the un redeemed portion of Land Tax, provide for the reduction,of up ,evardi'of 41,000,0001. of debt in seven years; being neatly equal to the reduction that would be effected by the annual applica. tion of five millions for that purpose, and for the same period. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad argued as if the people did not want relief—that they were affluent and contented. He cer tainly, admitted that they were better off Alan they hed been some time ego; but there was a great class who suffered most unparalleled distrese, and who must be involved in ruin if they were not relieved. According to the measure whiCh he pro posed at the end of seven years, there would be a Sinking Fund es efficient as that which would result from the present system; and by refusing to adopt it they would be refusing the people that relief which they had a right to have in the reduction of 7,000,0001., being the amount of Income over Expenditure which the Right Hon. Gentleman bad stated. lie could also say, in the language of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the reduc tion of 7,000,0001. of taxes was not the loss of that sum to the State; but that the Revenue would increase 1,000,0001. in conse quence of such reduction. Besides this, there would be the 1 reductions in Expenditure which might be yet effected. ' large 'reduction was to be expected upon the collection of the Revenue in Ireland. According to the admirable Report of the Commissioners, this would be done. No man could appre ciate the value of that Report more thin he did. Every word of that honest, manly 'Report was a censure and chastisement of Ministers. That side of the House had always been pro posing that course to ....Violaters which they had at last adopted, From this source there mighebe expected a saving of 400,0001. In Scotland theriernight be a reduction of 350,11001. Upon the collection of the duties on beer and malt he was sure there might also be a saving of 200,0001., it properly managed.— The Army, Navy, and Miscellaneous Services, notwithstand ing what had been done, would bear a further reduction of million. If, therefore, those seven millions of taxes were re. awed, there would boa fair prospect of an iniprovetnent in the IteveniLe altogether to the amount of 4,000,0001. The Right Hon. Gentleman had found mottle to reduce 2,000,0001., and if he adopted this proposed alteration in the Act for the redemp tion of land tax, lie might as easily reduce 7,000,0001. Arid surely if ever there was a time when all means of relief Ought , to be tried, it was now when the landed interest was so over. whelmed. The Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to persons who, wished to rob the public creditor. Ile should be sorry that any otioasure of his recommendation should go forth to the world marked with that character. His opinion was, that the Public Creditor had as good a. right and claim upon his pro perty as any other man. And it was because he was convinced that his plan would uphold , the Public Credit that he intended to submit it to the Committee. Mr. BROODEN (the Chairman of the Committee), in. formed the Ron. Member that his proposition could not regu. larly be hid before the Committee. Mr. MABERIN then said, he should read his Resolutions, as they would perhaps explain his meaning more clearly. to the House than he had been able to do. The lion. Member then read the following Resolutions : • " I. That by the Resolutions voted by this House in the year 1019. It was deemed expedient that an efficient Sinking and should be created to the amount of five millions. g. That at the time in question, it was agreed unanimously that the only Sinking Fund which can be efficient, is, that which is produced by a surplus of income over expenditure. " 3. That as far as can be collected from the papers laid upon the Table of the House, there actually exists a sum of about five millions, applicable to the reduction of the. National Debt. " 4. That in addition to these five millions, applicable to the reduction of the debt, there is at the disposition of Parliament, arising from the increased productiveness of several branches of Revenue, and the various plans of reform and economy in the administration of the country, proposed to be carried into execution this year, a sum of about 2,200,0001. " 5. That it appears, therefore, that a total sum of 7,200,0001. arising from the above-mentioned sources, is applicable to the maintenance of public credit, ar.d to the relief of agricultural or other distress, by remission of taxation. " G. That although it was determined, that the capital stock purchased by the Commissioners for the redemption of the Na. tional Debt, with this efficient Sinking Fund, should be• trans. furred to their account, it wart nevertheless understood, that the interest payable upon the stock so purchased, should either de. termine at the time'of purchase, or be paid over and become pert of.the Consolidate d Fund. " 7. That taking 801. as the price ref 1001; in '3 per cent. Con. sot swir l it appears that five millions of money annually laid out durum the space of, seven years, would redeem about 48,750,001. of 3 per cent. Annuities, but should we remain at peace it would redeem a much smaller sum. " 8. That in the year 1798, for the support of public credit ?. there was passed an:Act fur the redemptron and purchase of Land Tax, which Act, 'from the exorbitant conditions attached to such redemption anti purchase, has in a great measure failed in effecting the destined object. 9. That notwithstanding the obstacles thus created, such has been. the anxiety of the public to redeem their lands, and to purchase landed tieuriti...s, that the sum redeemed and pur chased. amounts to 700,0001. and upwards. "10. That if so large a proportion of the Land Tax has been redeemed and purchased, at a sacrifice, in the first in. stance of 101. and in the second of 201. per cent., it is but rea sonable to conclude that the remaining balance of' 1,239,701/. would be similarly redeemed and purchased it' no sacrifice was necessary. _ " 11. That it appears that 1,239,7011. of Land Tax, thus re deemed and purchased, and paid for in 3 per cent. Consolidat ed Annuities, would cancel a sum, in such annuities, of about 41,330,0001. being more than t h e amou nt that would be pur chased by the regular investment of the Sinking Fund, in Stock, for the space of seven years, if we remain at peace. " 12. That it appears that-this method of reducing debt by no means differs in its substance from that which was adopted by the House in the Resolutions of 1819, the essential attributes of both plans being the maintenance.of public credit, by the di minution of the quantity of debt, 13. That as the mode of' redeeming the National Debt by re demption and purchase of Land Tax injures no class of pro prietors, and will absorb a quantity of debt nearly equal to that which would be redeemed by an efficient Sinking Fund of five:millions annually laid out during seven years, it is expo dient to substitute it for the Sinking Fund adopted in the Re. olutions of the House, of 1819. " 14, That by this substitution there may be remitted to the people, in alleviation of their distress, *even million of taxes," 'I he Member cotteluded by observing that he might be mistaken in his views, but they were the conscientious con viction of his mind. If the measure he proposed should be lost, he should always be convinced thatit was from want of ability in the individual who brought it forward. Mr. RICARDO—After what the House had, in common with the country, witnessed of the variety, vacillation, and fickleness .of opinion manifested .within that House ten part cif ptilitical econotniets, it might fairly be suspected that many wished there was no such a being within these walls as a political economist.e(Alaugh.),-Istut after thesound, eensible, anti able speech which they had heard this night from , the Right Hon. Gentlemen (the Chancellor of the Exchequei), it might - be questionable with mott n if notes% whether sound po litical economy were not in a statesmarna great public blessingl It was quite clear that there was .a very considerable surplus now at the dtepoial of Government. The Riethl Hon. Gentle:. ruin said, it• amounted to 7,00,0001. So_ tar he must differ with him, more particularly with respect to the shifting, as it had been called, of 'weight, which he considered, no more than shifting the responsibility, or paying out of one hand into another. Thue he had caul that 2,000,0001. was to be paid by . the country on fie acme of pensions, whilst they had received 4,600,09 t 1. on that account. 'lnstead, then, of taking the saving tut high as the Right Hon. Gent., he would take it that the country was relieved- at present to the extent of 2,000,000/. on the head of the dead weight. Ile went along with the Right Hon. Gent. to the full extent of his observation on the head Of the Sinking Fund; but then lie was of opinion, decidedly, - that if tie did retain is Sinking Fund, it was appli cable, primarily, to the diminution of the terrific public debt— he, to effect this great übjeet, would even, go eo far as to say he would willingly contribute part .of his own property pro vided others contributed their equitable share. He held that the Land Tax redemption scheme was not a chimera, but a measure perfectly and speedily practicable. If it could not be done on the greater scale as recommended by his Hon e Friend,' let it be encouraged to a certa i n ex t en t, an d go on as it had done for years, but with , increased incentives to pure chase up the Land Tax. Going so far with him, he still must confess lie felt his lion. Friend was desirous to go too great a length. That there was only a possibility of a renusston of taxes to the amount of three millions, he agreed with. the lion. Gentleman. He had the acquiescence also of a writer of some note on this head, who had published a pamphlet under the sanction of Comment, on the state, of the nation.—(slr. Robinson exclaimed, " We know nothing about it.")—Well, if there were a eteplus, it was only applicable to those objects which were connected with the fund out of which it arose or necruedene Hear t front the Ministerial Bench.)--It had been said that this hind being; suffered to anctimulate at compound interest would provide us in case of necessity with the means for going to war and sustaining it. Wits this the sentiment then of itlinivere ? If so, let them sae so honestly at once. He would tell any that held such an opinion that it would be much more consistent in a public servant, much more Constitutional as a Minister, to come down to the Howe and ask for a vote of money to carry on any war that might be found necessary for the maintenance of the national shinty or honour..—(hear !) It was a delusion 'to assert in that House that the produce of the accumuland interest on the Sinking Fund was appli. cable as 'teens to carry on a war, or to any other purpose than the deduction of our overgrown and enormous public debt. Mr. BARING alio bore testimony to the clear and able manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman had laid his state ment before the House. The principles which it contained were, to him, must sound and roost satisfactory. Ile agreed with what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Porterlington, as to the position of the 2,000,0001. raised upon die dead weight and Pensions. He agreed with him, that the Sinking Fund amounted to three millions, and not to five. Certainly much might be said on account of .the temporary nature of the debt incurred by that measure, butt in the next forty years the same things must hap* again, and the same dead weights and aug mentation of Pensions must be created. The ,consequence would then be, that the payment would be provided for by other meetly, and thus be thrown on the permanent debt.— He agreed that there was now, above the expenditure of the country, a clear Sinking Fund of 3,000,0001. - and 2,000,0001. fbr the reninteion of taxes ; and he confessed that the last named sum was greater than he expected to have been at the disposal of the house.—(llear !)—With regard to the pre servation of a Sueplus Revenue, no one who had the least pretension to the views of a Statesman could suppose that the country could go on without it. Ins Hon. Friend (Mr. Ricardo) agreed to this principle, and yet he would let these 3,000,000/. of surplus slip away, because he thought it impossible to main tain a Sinking Fund. Notwithstanding what his Hon. Friend had said upon thet subject, it wee undoubtedly one of the ad vantages of a Sinking Fund, that it could be applied for the purpose of .armament in the case of any temporary circum stances requiring 'warlike attitudes or exertions, which circutn stancee, front that not 'being permanent or lasting might not reader a direct increase of texatiun necessary.—(llear !)T,he Honourable Member then proceeded to vindicate the principle of Mr. Pitt's Sinking Fund. Although he did not approite of the foreign policy of that great marl, yet there was much in, his management of the internal affairs of the country which admiration, ne peculiar l y i t ra o tion.ll tl et r i l i y ought his Sinking Fund seia in e ti i t l i i o s n, a suited to the situation in which the country at that ti me stoo d. A di sposition was new demands entertained to give it a bad name, because the House had failed to support inentllear, hear.)—lle then proceeded to shew how Parliament had abandoned the system recommended by Mr. Pitt, and expressed his hope that the country would now perseverein maintaining a real Sinking Fund, and not shrink from supporteng 'it on account of the pressure of temporary difficulties. He saw great inconvenience in the plan, of the Sinking Fund now rec ommen d e d. I nstea d o f having 5,060,0001. as the fixed amount, and bringing the remaining available Ito venue every year to be thrown on the table and scrambled for by all different interest, he would say fix a standard of taxes which snould not be mutable, and then take whatever surplus remained to accumulate at compound interest as a Sinking Fund.— (Hear, hear !)—lf .the country Gentlemen looked at the Sinking Fund as capable of erecting any.retlief to thtm, they were never under so c om pl ete a delusion .--( Hear, hear !) No man felt their distresses more than he did ; he believed it to be greater than any distr ess which had ever b een felt by any other interest in the country, and he would say, also, theta had been borne with the greatest fortitude. But it was inipoe sible that they should look to the two or three millions which could be thus obtained, as affording them any thing nut the most paltry relief. The lion. Member concluded by asking a question as to the intention of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, . with regard to the Manner in which the Sinking Fund should opere.e upon the Debt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXWIEQUER said lie had omitted to state to the House that it was his intention *horny to submit to the Rollie a measure for simplifying the operation of the Sinking Fund. • Mr. ROBERTSON spoke against the system in which the House was persevering, as rot being sufficiently protective of the Agricultural interest. That interest would be destroyed if the system were persisted ins and with its destruction would come the destruction of the Throne. If the landed interest, which formed the aristocratic part of that House were to be thrust out of it, what was to become of the Constitution ? Sup, posing a dissolution of Parliament to take place now, it was im possible that the - Country fientlemen could be prepared for a contest with the Fundholders. The Hon. Member then refer. red to die financial history of other countries to shew that their distresses arose from systems similar to that now acted upon by the (government. Mr. HUME agreed with all that his lion. Friend the Mem ber for Porterlington had said, with regard to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Ile had never eat in that House and heard a spe e ch with so rnuchpleasure. Never, he believed, bad aChancellor of the Excheq uer ma d e a state ment eo clear ; and they might look forward to have future financial measures and operations so explained as to be understood by every body. He was sorry to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman, notwith et tnding the admirable principles which he had laid down, still intended to support it Sinking Fund. It was the greatest , delusion that could possibly b e p rac ti se d. Il e agree d with 'ibis Hon: Friend (Mr. Ricardo) that it woulebe desirable if 'they could be sure of maintaining a real and effective Striking Fund; but that he was convinced was imposaible. All the experience they had proved this to be the cue. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer took seven millions in one year from the Sink ing Fund ; and there had been altogether taken from the same tource four hundred and forty millions. The Hon. Mem ber then adverted to a fernier resolution of his own,-which, he contended, chewed a.e futility of the present manner in which the Sinking Fund operated upon the Debt. With re gard to the measure of last year for the payment of the dead weight and pensions, it had not yet dome into effect, and he trusted that the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer would repeal it. It was the most absurd of ell the financial measures that h a d ever been adopted. But th e rea l quest i on was, not wheth ee there was a Sinking Fund of thr ee million); or five ; but whether they should extract either the one or the other from the country, distressed as many of its great interests nuw were. The real question for the Oammittee, was, whether or not it would be best to take off' us much taxation as possible, and trust .to. Parliament and to the count r y for other means if any emergencies should require them. Ile 'could not sit down without Joining' the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his ex prelusion of regret that any Member .of that House should think of Barletta:ling the proposition for robbi ng the Public Creditor of one shilling of his right.--(Year, hear, hear !)-- Ppon this subject Ministers had in miy, honestly, and manfully stated their determination, and he must do them the justice to say, that they had firmly, honestly, and manfully maintained it. The fall of States had too frequently been hastened, if rot caused, by the breach of public faith, and he could not but suspect that d ime w h o w ooed so readily break faith with one class of the people, would never preserve it entire with any other —(Cheere-tie deeply regretted the continuance of die. tress in the Agricultural Interest % but injustice was not the means by which it ought ,u, be relieved. ne lion. Member for Sussex, wh o h a d pr e se nted a Petition froni that County, appeared to think it alnioet fair to attack Public Credit, but he trusted that Hon. Member would alter his opinion. lie could not close without o bserving abet the Right Hon, - Glettleman Mr. BENNET said, he was for the support of public credit; but by that he meant common honesty to all; to the Public Debtor as well as the Public Creditor. He was for psying what was actually borrowed, without regard to the tricks respecting the currency, by which it•becatne altered in nominal value—people were not to be stripped and beggard by this adherence to public faith, us it was called. The measure which had been passed by Parliament respecting it were mea sures of greater spoliation and misery than those which had been passed by any Government since Governments first exist ed. He trusted that County after County would meet and demand justice on this subject, and he was SUTC the Parlia ment would then be compelled to submit to an equitable ad justment. fie should not at the present moment, enter fully into this question ; but he could not sit quietly , under the_ sort of rebuke which was conveyed by those who preceded him upon all who entertained opinions similar to his own. When the proper time arrived he should state his sentiments in the open face of day. Lord 'MILTON said he had experienced two suroriaes in the course of the debate —one in the speech of his Hon. Friend Bennet) and the other, more agreeeble, in the epeech of the Chancellor of the ilxcheque . He must congratulate the self-evident, but what till letely house on a new Government, new r in all its feelings. The Chan cellor of the Exchequer had flatly admitted, what was indeed means of relieving the country wag by diminishining taxation. :Ministers were no w awake to the proper remedy, but he was Brie. vously , disappointedin the quantum of relief, which was much less than the country hail a right to expect, and inueh lees than tied been denied—that the only could be effectual. Ife could appeal to those who are best acquaint. ed with the counties of England which weje not the most fertile, whether the, proposed reduction would be sufficient to continue the cultivation of the soil. He was satisfied it would not, and that it was iocumbent on Government to melte a greater reduc. tion. For at the saute time that he must deprecate the language of his lion, Friend Cdr. G. I3ennet) he felt that the best secu rity for the public creditor would be found in the diminution of taxation.—( Hear !)-llis Hon. Friend appeared to dread spoils tion on one 'tide only, but not on the other. An equitable ad justment might have been made in 1319, when they returned to cash payments., but could not now be possibly carried into effect. He would sic gent to the Members of the House who felt as they ought to feel for the distress of the agriculturists, to press a tarther reduction of taxation on the Min ister.—(llear ! ) Sir R. WILSON said be had heard the speech of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer with considerable pleasure, particularly that part of it in which he did justice to the loyalty of the peopfe under all their privations. And as it was now fully admitted that there was no sedition in the country, he hoped the Govern ment would consent to the repeal of the Six Acts that had been passed to abridge the liberties of the people at a time when Mi. flusters most unreasonably supposed that the people had de- I creased in love tend reverence for their ronstitutior.!—(llear !) Mr. WODEIIOUSE said, towards the close of last session ' a prospect had been held out, that the duty on beer should be repealed, which would be some relief to agriculture. It ap. peered from the returns, that the quantity of malt mad e l ess year was three millions and a half bushels less than the year before, and also that then the quantity of malt made for some years past, was less than the quantity made thirty or forty years ago. The agricultural interest was alto pressed by taxes from which the other classes were free, such as poor rates, road tax, country rates, amounting together to between nine and ten millions : for all these reasons he thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer should repeal the duty on beer, or reduce the existing duty on malt. Mr. ENETT (of %Viltshire) expressed his surprise that the Chancellor of Exchequer had made no proposal for the relief of the Agricultural Interest. lie still hoped that some thing on this important subject would originate with his Ma jesty'e Ministers in the cause of the present Session. With .respect to the general relief to be obtained by remission of taxation, he was of opinion 'that the Window lax was highly objectionable in principle, and ought to be repealed. Ile was however friendly to the house TAX, which he thoeglit was tair in principle as Well as in operation. Ile bad heard. with con- j siderable pleasure, the sent i m ents expresse d b y t h e Right Hon. 'Gentleman respecting Ireland. Though not an Irishman him self, he should always must cordially support any measure which had the good of the country fur its obiett. lie was convinced that whatever was doze for Ireland was done for England—(Hear!) —and he hoped the time was riot far distant when Ireland would flourish, one of the principal ponions of his Majesty'e dominions.. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said he rose merely to answer an observation made by his Honeurable Friend (Mr. Wodetesuse) respecting the Tax upon Beer. Al. though he had not long.been in the office he now held, this-sub ject had not escaped his a t ten ti on; an d he . knew it had not escaped that of his Noble Friend, his predecessor in office. All that he could say at present was that h e wa s mo st anx i ous to find the means of altering the present Duty, and to facilitate the consumption of Beer. Tu what extent lii* wishes could, be 'reduced to practice he was not at that moment prergd to de cide. He trust e d t h e H ouse wou ld not call upon ' to give any further answer at present—Olean hear!) The motion was then agreed to. The usual annual Votes for Duties on Tobacco, Snuff, and other exciseittle articles, were agreed to. The House re -I.t to l n it ra; N ; o r n ep w o i r r i ch pro day gress the Ili to n ti l i e t d ag ; a t in te ur C i inittee was ordered to be received. The other orders of the day being now disposed of, the House adjourned at Eleven o'clock. progress, and Report obtained of - th e Cone_lea e e Prince LEOPOLD, attended by Sir ROBERT GARDINER, CHRie to town from Claremont, for the purpose of paying his respects to the KING. His Royal Highness was introduced after the Duke of 'Tonic, and had a long interview with his MAJESTY. had not deal t altogether fairly . ,by the . :ilembersonhis (Mr. U.'s)l side of the House. lie (Mr. II.) took upon himself to assert with confidence, that eery lestimete of- the'Public Expenditure had increased since the year 1817. iTthe Right Hon. Gentle man disputed this, he might prodeei the requisite papers, and the House would he enabled to ;judge. He should certainly, on some future and inure convenient .evasion, submit a motion t o t h e House relative to the Sinking Fund. - Mr. T. W ILSON congratulated the House on the honoura ble declaration which had just been made by the Honourable Gentleman wile had just sat down, respecting the public faith. - With regard to the suggestion thrown olit bytthe Hon. Gentleman for the relief of the Shipping Interest, by repealing the tax of 6d. per month upon Seamen's Wages, although he was ninth connected with the Shipping Interest, he had no desire to see it benctitted at the expence of any other. He, therefore, could not consent to the repeal of that tax, as a measure of particular relief, though he trusted, and had no doubt, that hie Majesty's .Ministers would take the necessary measures for diminishing , the expence of its collection. Sir ti. PARNELL sad he wax highly gratified at the kind •and warm feeling which had been expressed by the Chan cellorof elle Exchequer on the state of Ireland. He agreed in the general views taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman, par •ticularly those which regarded the Commission of Inquiry, the Commiscioners under which had discharged their dude; in the most exemplary manner. They had recommended a consolida tion of the Board of Revenue ; and in this he entirely concur. red with them. Ile agreed also in opinion with the Right lion. Gentleman with regard to the equilization of Custom Duties and, with reference to that Right lion. Gentleman's sentiments respecting Distilleries, lie could assure him lie would not be disappointed in his expectations of an increased Revenue aris ing from his putting his opinions in practice. He was sort; ; however, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not contemplated theeliminution of taxes upon Tobacco, and other articles of great consumption in Ireland. lie had no doubt their diminu tion would prove of considerable benefit to the Revenue. 'Lord FOLKESTONE admitted- that the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman had all the merit of cleerneee and per spicuity ; but he was much disappointed that the statement it self had been brought to,a close without opening any propo s al for, the particular relief of the elgrieultural Classes. In deed. from sonic parts of the Right lion. Gentleman's speech he did not know whether the Right lion. Gentleman admitted the existence of their distress ; for lie had appeared to treat an in creasing Revenue as a sign of unqualified prosperity amo ng all descriptions of the people. Ile begged to dissent from such a proposition ; the true question was net whether this or that Revenue was raised, but whether it was raised without extra ordinary pressure on 'the people. In India the Revenue was immense, but this was no sign of prosperity among the people, who were suffering and impoverished to a degree to which he feared thus of this country were fast approaching.— It appeared now to be the fashion to cry up Public Credit, and even to cry down those who did not cry it up. He bad said, two years ago, that it was unfair and unwise to push this prin ciple of national faith to the extreme. He had then stated cases in which it would not only be fair, but just and neces sary, to question this principle. He should not now enter into an exanunation of those mites, but whenever it should be pro per, he would fearlessly state his opinions upon them. Much had been said about the Sinking Fund ; he was old enough in Parliament to recollect the time when a proposal for touching this Fund was ae loudly condemned, and was treated with as much ignominy as was the proposal which was now broached fin affecting the Public Faith. The opinions he had long ene tertained on this subject were confirmed by experience, and he repeated, that on the arrival of a proper time he should move them, regerdless of any animadversion by which he might be threatened, PARLIAMENTARY ritocEEDINGs. • UOUSE Or COMMONS. Veneris, '2l ° die l'ebruarii, 1 03. CARNATIC DEnTS _ Nineteenth A.nnual Report of Comm aid), Newcastle and Eccleshall, &loners resentedp ; to lie on the table, and to be printed. Roaus—Peterborough, and Worthing—Bills ordered. Pre Darlaston, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Blyth Marsh, Say and Risley, Leeds and Birstall, Sheffield and Glosse , Wl' Ile). and Latigset, lleighlev and Kendal, BarnsitY.! Grange Moor, Skipton and ()nine,. Durham and 'AM 15 ,9, 4 Beaconsfield and Stokenchurch, Stirlinehirc, and 3 1 °?,, ' l, l —Petitions for Bills referred to Committees. Ureg u ' e Bill resin a first time. • ' e, ri bieLosunrs—Crordon (Surrev)—Bill read a first ton . aliens (Sussex), - flunslet (Vork), Kew (Sorrel), y! tpurhanl), Abthorpe (Northampton), and Sil4ion or', thampton)—Bills ordered. ronthill Bishop ti u iii s g ; Llanvihnneel-gener-glyn (Cardigan) —Petitions f ' )r '. ferred to Committees. • entioi Gas LlGHT—llelfast, Londonderry, ard Ratcliffe ' ~P 6 ,1 for Bills referred to Committees. Doblta—Bill ordered I,Yme Regis, Tionwort t.;011:RT or IitIQUESTA —Southwark Rwors—Southwark, a nd Stirling --- 7 - 77 AND Rows—Wye, and High. land HARBOURS—Beer, and Straw:wt . PIERS--Scarborough 'WATERWORKS, &c.—llalifax, & Skipton Cnuncitts—Huddersfield and Shady/ell P e t wirefe it t i tt o r n res.ai sfor toco ßo o l, NAvIGATION--Couriter's Creek PavlNG—Hackney 1 sum so referredy E tES and Shoreditch SALE Rooms—London Commercial ESTllY—florsleydown (Southwark) PATENT — Simeon Thorn ion's i P e titions fl st.:_i ilAfi l tt l xi7v.to ill Az:ntßiLtti,soitm:2lLDß...riloinrnEs : te_ r t tl, s a o na — rr e due 3 o r:3 l ln ar : ite u eom : s . i a. ti t e_ t: c e l .....B r ol l i' a . lß i li : ircu P: e l o aordt r i i ‘ i:;:;: ..it tini uear oc —r e c k - I_l .-u r 7 t il i tcP : oo l c orp thismei e te r " r A r o V filis_nthditaCapedoixonriimnaliinuttgeactshoLeiiirgtilvtitcetr:!3:idlelleicrCnico'll'iatr,teltsi,i)L)fid'els7dle; VI _ referred tti a Committee. (l as Light—Ha ordere d. ,the Co t IRISH Cons—Petition of Renting Trawl' , `); cam 14" sariat, complaining of the Importation of IIAWKERS AND PEDLARS—PetitiOn from plaining of the increase ther. f. &c , for th t Country. (Severn) 8/Lt.—petition of Owners itia 0 , 0 1 ; Hop DUTY—Several Pet i t i ons of ilop .pisat i : h .. repeal thereof. ' , hrrt?e' l llousE AND WINDOW T vc .°' ver.o r et,t,ons for t thereof. ' ^ --.2 vsoo , " 5' CV IthENCY—Pelition of Charles Andre w Th oll, o cy, 0 plaining o f losses arisin g f 1. . Pons of ale, Le ton) a ILIA • be printed. 1. ,,,n,-1 1 0 ' NEW SOUTH WALES AND `SAN Di E )l.t5'S +-- to be printed. ' • c.d. ROYAL BUR° us —Returns presented -16 be Frio .. ............. SDAY• • ORDERS OF THE DAY FOR MO. I. Yeomanry Corps (Ireland) Rill—Second eading.. 3. Arms (Ireland) slid--. Second Readink SuPP I Y—R Tort 4. .Suppl c ' : 9-- ottiniittee, 5. Ways and Means-- Report, 6. I ,, ava and NI ,- • - -eans—Committee. t,, g pot- 4- C h ancellor of the Exche a 1 d)Bia --1. quer re an 8. Assessed Taxes Acts—Committee theocra t ' . e . 0 ,, 4 1 NOTICES OF MOTIONS FOR MON- . g is, . co robo 1. 211 r . Peter Moore—To amend Act agilt 4t ..0 , ~ , : Poniefret, ems, —_..served 0: ,LI .. 7 ___ _ _ _____ workmen. I. Mr. Hume—llalf-pav or Allowances of Oifir s i;;;O • c r: the Yeomanry of Ireland, and of EnglAP o ,_, l ;:kalyi '‘)''' ence with the Privy Council respecting the°" !,! 0 1 ' , ing of the Militia of Jersey. 0 g hir..,,,, 3. Mr. !futile—Return of the number 0.- 11 ,1 if t lo ) Laud and Assessed Taxes in the gens'_„ llo 7„, flow ° Surcharges for Spring Carts—of Astro,'" Tax in Surrey and other Counties. , to O 0 • 0 , 4. Mr. ilaherly—To move resohinuris routivc tion of Taxes. Sir Lo : a ) : A . o rr :NOTICES a ß i pn r i ril a ri i ' l l i l d i t o e% a s n ' y ' r E_l e:r v c i .o l; p4 l :: : ::::: l ; l: . !e . c ilhD or :: ::: 0 14 :; a1, 1 ; I T ; i tz e ee nt n otp t p. h i A_s irA. C up ou pirrw, ; :i r di y tinnegeesi a i. n d t g l ii : p :r;:a aru e w e rscil r i el: " , ` ') , 0 . 2 1:1{ B l e I r th A na T l E cir BLLL y S t — str S ies Eco ND RrAvv ral hi ,°. ) 34 ~o , A :qr. Qi t.. s: t li A t 1.. Tewkesbury (S evern)Bridge illortict4"' - W.-. 2. Plymouth Lias Light 1 - 45. Ltriiigii-- i r, n l e iro. PUBLIC Co.ll3lll.i.' *6 .E : E th Foreign T ra d e , at onc• forat7ls24.c;tV, sliocs 6 ' , L x• 118 c 11411 : ° : ; a ttit: , 1 t 113 ; tt i ln°1-c4 ti ld°1;;1:esQci‘::.::1.:11 { Vx. litllg. .................... ~,,,,,, I Pitto Sotag .......... Batik for Ac t ' ....... .14;iffi I n dic for " I ' . i l* Account/ o ons. fur FE t . •J E ll PRICY ' FOREIGN ..-4.0- ,‘•700 , I ' 01. STOCKS IN Lu - 1 AT (Mr O'CLOCIi. Fivc per cent , ra. , • six per Cents. 00. .. 00. Five per Cents, (Metallic) New -01 fljtto i.e., a , 67 1, NeoPOli!an 1 s F e t r yf r r 7r,...,trnt. P ow , ') 0. ' Metallic • Five per Cents. , Five tier Cent. 00, New DiAo, 34. Scrip, 31A disc. . 9 . Prit34ian (-Five per Cent. Bondg, 1 bet 1 Ditto New, 751! 9, Chili Five per Cent. sods , i Colombian 69,. Peruvian Six p er Cent. Bonds, (8;' New Loan, 00. Bank Shares 121 54. American Six per. Cent. 90-•98„•.,, Five per Cent. ot4---r,OO, Three per Cent. 69.i' PRICE a Tins DAY AT Bank Stock --- 3 per Cent. lied. 74,Ei 3: per Cent. Cons. 73i la St pet Cent. . I ptr Cent. t on . 93 ' '" 1 New 93ii 5 ?et Cents. 1797 Hank Long Ann. Imp. 3 per Cents. — French Russian Austrian Spanish 010, 1 ; 1• 'IA HUM .. rEn AT LONDON 131t1D0F. ' .l " mg. 33 minutes after O. Evoting, orn , . rrft s eT SOLE .It auLi DICERZ rAL:S,I LONDON, 1 S-4TURD4Y, FEfifilf,llo:- - W e have received the Paris rtil )L 3 0 1 ii. ) " il • tiesday. - They contain the wail"' re , i c ' 14 ,h c0 1 Commanders of foueout of tho It . a d et , that are to form th e arm y o f Spoi'' ' co rila'" i the four Spanish Generals " 4° A : 11. :: O f ,li.iiii the Spanish armies to act in ou''' - - . ;,P conjunction with, the French , t e,•,l ~, 0 1,414 'AO " The army of Spain s yi the JournadtPu' Idroittill into -I five c° r P s ; the iiiN't ;Mt becotnitoill;ii`lji: tlcAnito,sl Luke de Reggio ; b ee 4 1°Ileni°he . the second by General na—foo c.„- a re , the fourth was to have 0 olootpiti the . larquis of bauriston, Minister of y tit ';fOP„,4 hold, but . his Excellency is not to Pin the '"1DY.,,V117,., ;no will be substituted fur' him); and the fi ts op', h ': S Y:O Genee de e°llegliano ; General Littillentinotl,!l3,we, 4 a_ General. The Baron WE:roles will co . n s T 0 ,1, 0 4 ' n r er tny o. Catalonia ; General d'EsPln e tri i tP: s '' Herat Longa that of Arrigon • and Uene r3 , i ll of the Basque Province;." ' ke P OA Tuesday Mosstrun sod t11 : 0 1) i 'i t " lic 11 :11 G°ULE3IE reviewed the Beta . I f 0 ' Body ' t A ril ' 0 Guards, destined to juin t 1 ; o py A Vi e Pyrenees. Next Monday so-