The Sun. — London, England, 1846-05-23 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES (YESTERDAY.) u- HOUSE OF LORDS. GROUP I. Mr. Hughes, civil engineer, was called on the part of the pro moters. This gentleman said that the line, as laid down in the plan, was the least objectionable which could be made near Mr. Chapman's property. The next case was for Sir John Trollope, M.P., who alleged that the line would also injure his property. This was the last of the landowners' cases. THE vt A ciTEILIq COUNTIES. Mr. ACSTIN said that he would now proceed with the case for the Eastern Counties. Ile would not trouble their Lordships with an opening speech, but would reserve himself till the conclusion of the evidence. The first witness called was Mr. Jasper Gripper, of Hertford, to rove that the Eastern Countiesnine would be the best accommoda tion for the traffic between that place and the metropolis. The wit ness was examined at great length by Mr. AUSTIN. After a cross-examination by Mr. DENISON, several ether witnesses were called to prove that the Eastern Counties line to several towns would be of greater advantage than the line proposed by the pro moters of the London and York. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock to eleven o'clock on Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP X. The Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, in Room No. 1 (House of Commons); present, Mr. Deedes (chairmen), Mr. Arkwright, Mr. Vivian, Mr. Farnham, and Mr. Stanley. They resumed the consi deration of the - GLASGOW , A.I.MDRIE, AND VIONNLANDS JUNCTION. Mr. r r b k y , and air. Coat bridge s Adie, the engineer, was further cross-examined G a n STTH, the counsel for the Caledonian (u bridge Railway Branches). Ews , Q.c., the witness s t a t e d th at the purchase In re-examination by Mr. Azgl , l versity buildings was effected for o company n f n t t he terms Glasgow ivadv an tageous to both. The company would purchase a new site the and erect new buildings for the university a t an expense which would leave certai n ed l y amb a ea b yl a se l o a ry n ran c in e ut ag chrh a oau lm ; s ah t iltah t b h el e e : foo . urn ß tdhuse, t the buildings now standing uses of a railway company. Awosturl which was obviously an advantage to the railway, became " where over you have coals and water you will be sure to get plenty of factories." Mr. John Millar, civil engineer, was next examined by Mr. AN. wiLi , w9, i n support of the evidence of Mr. Ad;e, whose mode of lay- Lug out the line he entirely approved ot, in respect to the choice of the direction, the levels, and the plan of working. Ile regarded the estimates to be rather full, and certainly not below the probable cost. The witness had turned his attention particularly to this sub ject, and he had no doubt that the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction would give better accommodation to the district than the two competing, branches projected in connexion with the Caledonian. Witness Is the engineer of the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway. The evidence of Mr. Smith, of Glasgow, architect and surveyor, and others, was then taken In support of the estimates, into the detail of which it Is not necessary to follow the witnesses. It appears that the cost of erecting a new university, Including the purchase of the newsite, would b e 110 ,0001., from which should be deducte d 48 , 930/ ., which the Company would receive for the land and materials to be sold, leaving 61,04/. as the cost of the terminus and station in Glasgow. The evidence for the promoters having been concluded, Mr. Errington, the engineer of the Caledonian (Dundyvan Branch), was called by Mr. FORSYTH, and gave evidence to the effect, that in the engineering merits, the cost, and the general accommodation to the district to be passed through, the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monk lands Junction was inferior to his line. The Committee then proceeded to take the evidence (according to Mr. Duncombe's resolutions) respecting the CALEDONIAN (DUNDYVAN BRANCH). Mr. Smith, of Deanston, land surveyor and valuator, was then called by Mr. Forsyth, and examined as to the accuracy of the esti mates for the purchase of the land to be required by this company. In cross-examination by Mr. ANDEMWiI the witness adhered to his Opinion that his valuation was adequate, " especially as he had no university to value."—(A laugh.) Other evidence in favour of this competing line was adduced, and the Committee adjourned at four o'clock to Monday—the decision as to the preamble of the previous Bill being postponed until after the evidence on the competing lines ; and the statement of the counsel for this Bill being also deferred until after the evidence in its support. GROUP VIII. NOETH azrrxsif (CARLISLE EXTENSION). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. Robert Cowep re - examined—The 20,000 tons of Canobie coal he meant was the quantity that would be consumed in Carlisle and south of it. To the Cfmß3lAN—The length of the canal was 1114 miles. The present rates down the canal was is. a ton, and 3d. a ton for tack ing, being Is. 3d. each ton. He had learned that there was an in tention to reduce it to 6d. The present price of coals hi Carlisle was for the best Ss. 2d. ; second, ss. Bd. ; and third quality for steam Purposes, Is. Mr. Marshall, traffic-taker, examined—He had had considerable experience in taking traffic. He took the traffic for the North Bri tish line. The observations on the present line were taken by men Placed at various points along the route in the months of Jancitry and August. He took the passengers from the way-hills. The traffic of this route had much decreased of late, on account of the greater facilities afforded by the Newcastle route from the opening of the railways south. In making his estimate of passengers, he had added 150 per cent, for increase, which he considered a moderate cal culation. In addition to the passengers through Hawick, he had taken. 1,500 passengers, who went yearly by the Newcastle route for the south that would go by the present line, if it was opened. The whole number of passengers that went that way was 10,000, and of that amount he thought 1,500 a moderate number that would go this way if they had railway accommodation. The parties by gigs and Private vehicles were taken by observation, and to that also he had added 150 per cent. The same principle of noting traffic was observed in estimating goods. He had taken credit in the tables for a large amount of fish that would pass along this line from Dunbar to Liverpool and Manchester. lie had calculated 1,500 tens of fresh meat that would go by this railway. His coal esti. mate he made out from the estimate of the witnesses examined yes terday. The cattle •nd sheep traffic was made from the information of Mr. Nelson and Mr. Maxwell. The total income was set down at 60,566 L Cross - examined—He took January and August for the passenger traffic. August was not a f a i r mon th , b ut it was compensated by January. The traffic in August was taken about the middle of the month. His information of the passengers that went by Newcastle he got from guards and coachmen and inquiries made at Edinburgh. Of all the Passengers that went by the Edinburgh and Newcastle coaches he took 1,500 that would go by this line; as he learned that a great proportion of those also went south of Newcastle, went to the midland counties of England. He had but estimated 100 per cent. of increase on the Hawick line last year, but he had seen reason this year to consider 150 a lair calculation. The men who were placed to make the observations were instructed to put down every person on horseback and every vehicle that was travelling more than three nines; and out of this Information he made his tables, striking off from the data furnished a proportion, so that the table furnished would include only those that were travelling six miles and upwards. Ile considered that 9,1371. would be raised this way. lie did not consider that an over -estimate. He had never heard of parties being purposely sent by companies along the roads in gigs, in order that they might be included in the traffic calculations.—(Laughter.) If the route from Dunbar, through the North British to Newcastle, and from thence in a direct manner to Manchester, was shorter, then the 4,000 tons of fish he had estimated to be carried by this line was erroneous, as a great portion of it would go by the east line. The fish that would go fo Liverpool and Manchester, would in all proba bility, take that route. With respect to the coal traffic, ha had taken the present consumption at Hawick, and trebled it, making 24,000 tans in all. He had estimated a ton and a half to each person. When he spoke of Hawick in this estimate, he meant the town and parish of Hawick and the district surrounding it. The population of the town and pariah of Hawick in 1841, was 6,573. Mr. RICKARDS asked how he could make up the balance of 16,000 of a population which was implied in the supposition of a ton and half being consumed by each person in the Hawick district ? Witness then went through a series of parishes in and beyond the neighbourhood of Hawick which when cast up made a population of 13,419. He admitted, therefore, that 24,000 tons showed an over estimare-of 4,000. This was at the same time on the supposition that the coal delivered at the Hawick station would go as far north as Jedburgh and St. Boswell's, and that the Dalkeith coal would be shut out of this district, also that the Canobie coal would retain its present price. His calculation given last year of coal and lime being brought out of the Lothlials must now be struck out as far as these tables were concerned, as they were calculated to be supplied from Canobie and Langholm. Mr. Patrick Maxwell, of Canobie, was briefly examined in COM boration of the evidence of the previous witness. Mr. Blythe, civil engineer, esaamined by Mr. Sergeant BELLASts— He laid down the line under the direction of Mr. Miller, The line joined with +he Ecliiihur;ll Railway at Hawick, and passed by Moss Paul, Langholm, asad the east side of Langton, on to Carlisle. The last mile of this I :.ne was nearly identical with the deviation line of the Caledoelara Company now before Parliament, for entering into a central station to be constructed in Carlisle. There would be no difli culty In both companies using the same line here with a double set of rails. The steepest gradient oil the line was. 1 in 75, between Netherby and Langton. 'fhe length was 2l miles. The smallest radius on the main line was three furlongs. There was a tunnel of 300 yards in length, near to 3(,, Paul. The ascending gradient from Hawick to Moss Paul was , one in 100, and the descending one towards Carlisle, one in 90. There were four short viaducts, 850 yards in length altogether. The main line was tett; miles in length, and there were two short branches of 1 1 4, miles each. This would form the shortest 'oute from Hawick to London and Lancashire, connecting the lines at pre sent authorised to be made. From Hawick by Carlisle the distance to London would be 343 miles ; and by Kelso and Berwick, 407 miles. The whole distance from Edinburgh by Itawick to Carlisle was 96 miles, by the Caledonian about 100 miles. His whole esti mate of the line, including land, was 660,0%/, The working expenses were estimated at 37 per cent. Cross-examined by Mr. Ileer-- - fle thought the present line would be worked in connexion wit% the Edinburgh and Hawick line. Last year his estimate was i fs per cent. for working expenses. He had not calculated the a' atstance from Hawick to London on the supposi • lion of the Lotto aolt and York being granted. If that were made then the distance, by Berwick and that :ine would be 37,5 miles, and if the Northern passed, nine miles sharter. They proposed to run I. ~ • -atO the station of the Lancaster and .Carlisle Company at Car aim, to which the latter objected. This line crossed several *tie eughfares. It crossed Crown-street on a level. Borough street was proposed to be lowered three feet, and to be crossed by an arch of twelve feet. There were several e m on the level. They might have had a gradient of one in a 100 at Netherby had they chosen to expend money for it. Witness had a ethernet(' pass along the oilier bank of the Esk, but Sir J. n't objected to it. It would have had better gradients than the Dreamt line. A deviation had also th , s ____ been made to meet the objections Duke or nuecteuch. The T v itcrossed 13 times. Itr. Hort here submitted the estimates o f works , which,a paper, with a series of ques ti ons on answers if the witness w ou ld return written mach shortened, to them, hi s ('Mr.HODe'. croes-examtnation would b e very 2slr. Sergeant Beetsans objected to this course as unusual *ought It would int er f ere much more with the time of the' and Corri mittee than if the questions were now put to the witness in regular order. After some conversation on the point, it was arranged that Mr. 1 Hope should put Lis questions then seriatim to the witness. Mr. Blythe was then questioned at length on the amount of exca• vation, the nature of the strata, the embankments, bridges, mason work, permanent way, &c., going in detail over the whole works ah.ing the line. The cross-examination was proceeding, when The CHAIRMAN said, as it was evident that the questions had re ference to the case of the Caledonian that was to follow, he thought it would be as well that a written abstract was drawn up and put in by the witness. This was assented to and the cross-examination was dropped. CALEDONIAN SXTENSION. Mr. CocisraN, in reference to an observation that dropped from the Chairman at the close of yesterday's sitting, as to whether the promoters intended to proceed with the Cale donian Extension, said it was evident that the observation of the Chairman proceeded, no doubt, from the supposition that the main claim of that line was negatived by the decision in favour of the Dumfries scheme. Now he wished to call the attention of the Committee to the fact that the southern connexion with Ayr shire was really subordinate to the real cl!ims which the Caledonian Extension preferred for the favourable consideration of the Commit tee. The main feature in the case was the formation of a connexion between Edinburgh and Ayrshire. Besides, it would have the effect of opening up to ilasgow the richest coal and mineral district in Scotland, that of Lesinahagow. It was, therefore, their intention to proceed with the Bill, which he begged to observe was independent I of the Caledonian Company. The CHAIRMAN said the Learned Gentleman was correct as to the impression of his meaning. He certainly thought the question of southern connexim was in a great measure settled by the decision in favour of the Dumfries line. Still, as the case was such as the Learned Gentleman represented, the Committee would cheerfully go into the whole case for the Caledonian Extension, and he begged of the promoters to dismiss fror their minds all supposition of the Committee being In the least egree prejudiced against the scheme. The Committee then adjouruM till Monday at twelve o'clock. The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bill cOmpribed in this group re -assembled at the usual hour this morning, s Mr. Protheroe in the chair. TIED MID RENT ATIV/OSPREILIC. The case for the promoters of the atmospheric line, was the drat gone into this morning. Mr. Wm. Arthur Wilkinson, the Chairman of the Croydon Com pany. was the first witness called. The orhinal estimate of the Croydon line was 140,000/. or 15,0001. p er mile. At the time it was earned, an arrangement w , s made that the traffic of the South- Eastern scheme should pas over that line. bin ALExanza, on behalf of the Sonth-Eastern Mid Kent scheme, objected to the evidence taking this course. Ur. Sergeant TALIOURD apprehended that the evidence was per fectly relevant to the question before the Committee, namely, which Was the bat Las for the public. Now a very larze z.apital had been expsna3l iu the =stmt.:lt ct Vas Crvl:22 lln. cu th 3 faith thst LONDON AND YORZ. The Committee met again this day at eleven o'clock, the Earl of Lovelace, chairman. The case of Mr. Chapman, landowner at Hornsey, was opened by Mr. Hors. The Learned Counsel stated that the line of railway in terfered with his client's residence at Hornsey, and nothing but a deviation of the lice would suit him, for as the line was at present on the plan, his residential property would be rendered entirely valueless. Mr. Chapman was called to speak to the Injury which he would sustain. the South-Eastern traffic would pass Over It In approaching the metropolis. Here, however, was a line which proposed to avoid the Croydon line altogether, while the Kent Atmospheric used two miles and a half of it. He contended that the evidence was perfectly germane to the matter in dispute It was to show that the Kent Atmospheric proposed to use a line which had been laid down for the express purpose of accom modating the Mid Kent traffic, while the South-Eastern scheme altogether avoiding it, if the Committee granted that line, it would hi volve an unnecessary expenditure of capital. The room was then cleared, and after a few minutes' consultation, The Committee decided that they could not permit the proposed course of examination to be adopted. The examination of Mr. Wilkinson was then resumed—Originally there was a more extensive scheme projected by the atmospheric company. They proposed at first to go entirely to Dover, and depo sited plans for that purpose, but in the autumn of last year it was thought expedient to abandon a portion of the scheme. Accompa nied by several of his co-directors he went over to Ireland a few years ago to inspect the operation of the atmospheric prin ciple, and so s a ti s fi e d were t h ey w i th i t that t h e y agree ito take the advice of Mr. C u bitt an d a d op t it upon the ,l. Croy don line, and the experiment h a d proved most successful. The miles. e.,,fT h e The atmospheric tube had b een l a id down for five great advantage of the atmosphe r ic p r inciple was, number t of trains were always at work, and c o ns e q u ently a larger could be run at much less expense than by means of a locomotive engine. The loss of time in passing from the ahat to the the engines locomotive line was not more than two minutes, s that in a very short thee the difficulty wouldta t and it was hopeda a he t removed. On cross-examination, Mr. Williamson portion of the original scheme was abandoned for the want of funds. The want o f fends was occasioned by a change,ilwny .whichdirectors, te t r oo s, k lik p a la n c t e he i r n atnhde largerpubli potentate opinion of railways ; they put forward their schemes.. turnpike Mr. CATERperonve a d opinions s e , f twerehe times obliged in aa , to o h r m i h odify their plans to meet the v i ews and the T South-n Eastern line crossed roads was veryseveralese roads ex tensive, and he had no doubt crossing them would be att en d ed with cons id era ble inconvenience Indeed, the r a il way crossing in this level. The way was exceedingly dangerous, and the roads on the Croydon line which were crossed on a level were diverted at the request of the inhabitants of the neighbourhood, and 11l consequence of several frightful accidents having occurred. Sir John Lubbock s lid the two lines from Bromley to Ockford were so nearly identical that he could not determine which was the best. He understood, however, that the atmospheric line was first in the field. He travelled every day upon the Croydon atmospheric line, and was convinced the principle had entirely succeeded. Mr. Ward, of Oldwood, a large landed proprietor, preferred the atmospheric line, because it was the cheapest of the two, and would in his opinion give more accommodation to the public. M r. Wm. Bell, bailiff to a large landed proprietor at Beckenham, proved that the inhabitants of that neighbourhood thought they were amply accommodated by the existing line, and were therefore in favour of neither line. In his opinion the South-Eastern scheme, c rossing AS it did on a level w.th the Lewisham-road, it would be at tended with considerable inconvenience to the public. There was an extensive traffic upon the road, and all kinds of vehicles, sheep, and cattle were constantly passing and re-passing along the road. Mr. Coleson, a farmer at Sydenham, gave similar testimony with regard to the south eud and Sydenham road, which was crossed on a level by the South-Eastern line. Mr. J. W. Hilop, of Bromley, proved that previous to approaching the Ravenbourne Valley, which it crossed on a high embankment, the South-Eastern line passed a turnpike road on a level, and as there was a large traffic on the road, he had no doubt it would be attended with danger and inconvenience. The road was on a severe inclination ; and on a recent occasion he witnessed a serious accident upon it : the weight of a timber waggon going down it overcame the horses, and the waggon was precipitated with fearful and tremendous velocity to the bottom. The Kent Atmospheric line avoided this road, and the inhabitants of Bromley were therefore in favour of it. Mr. John Atkins, a landholder at Halstead, was decidedly in favour of the Kent Atmospheric line. The majority of the inhabitants In his neighbourhood, and in the neighbourhood of Seven Oaks, were of his opinion. The Atmospheric Company was in the field long before the South-Eastern Company. _ _ _ Mr. Bryan Barton, of Seven Oaks, and other witnesses, gave similar testimony. The Com:nittee adjourned shortly after four o'clock till Monday, when the engineering evidence is to be gone into. GROUP XVIII. EXETER, YEOVIL, AND DORCHESTER, AND LONDON, SALISBURY, AND YEOVIL (Coitinued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The line between Yeovil and London at the station at Hungerford bridge was 124 miles, the total expense 1,600,0001. The gradients were of a favourable nature, the severest being only 1 in 106 for a length of two miles. The cross-examination ofthe witness was not completed when the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday. GROUP XX. This Committee met today at twelve o'clock ; Mr. Sotheron In the chair. LONDON, R OUNSLO IV, AND WESTERN. Evidence on behalf of this line was resumed. Mr. Scott, traffic-taker, was examined at great length as to the traffic he estimated to go along the line. Ills total calculation of gross traffic 'vas 130,585/. Among the items, in addition to the large one for road passengers, he calculated that one-third of the Great Western passengers from the Househill and Southall stations would take this line ; that 4,9971. would be realised from passengers that now went by water ; and that 2,0001. woul4 be got from Egham and -!scot races. Deducting 40 per cent. for working expenses, there would remain a net receipt of 78,7301., or II per cent. on the whole capital embarked. The witness was cross-examined at great length on the part of the Great Western Company, but nothing was elicited materially to aster his examination in chief. Captain Moorsom, civil engineer, deposed as to the engineering character of the scheme. The line was almost a perfect hycl. and of the most favourable engineering character. The whole expense of its construction he set down, if with an embankment and retain ing wall, 485,0001. ; and if with a brick viaduct, 53.5,0001. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP XXII. WAVENEY VALLEY. This Committee met as usual. Sir G. Grey, chairman. Mr. MURRAY opened the case at considerable length for several landowners who were opposing this line. Several landowners were examined as to the injury caused by the railway passing through their property. IPSWIC 11, NORWICH, AND YARMOUTH. This case was opened on behalf of the promoters by Mr. Harrison.. The first witness who was called was The Earl of Stradbroke, who gave evidence of a favourable nature with regard to the line, and also of the benefit it would afford to the district through which the line passed. The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday. GROUP XXXI. SOUTH WALES. 'Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)' Mr. Cooaz followed on behalf of Mr. Hoskins, and entered at great length into the present communication, and the whole district proposed to be traversed, and held that the proposed line was not demanded by its requirements. That district required direct communication from the pits to those places where the coal was greatly in demand. 'I he line would not effect this as It was indirect, and as the Forest of Dean Railway carried coals from the pits towards the north of the Berkeley canal to Gloucester, and he called upon the Committee to reject the preamble of the Bill. The Committee then adjourned until Monday. GROUP XXXII. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)] BUCRINGHABISHIELE (TILING TO BANBURY). This line, for which Mr. Austin, Mr. lli2dyard, Mr. Calvert, Mr. Hope, and Mr. Laing were retained, is promoted by an independent company in concert with the London and Birmingham Railway Company. It is opposed by the Great Western Railway and by Lord Carrington, Mr. Richards, Mr. Cripps, and other landowners, who appeared by Mr. Talbot, Mr. Cockburn, and Sir S. Phillips. Mr. HOPE briefly opened the merits of this line. It is 40 miles long, starting from the Tring station on the London and Birmingham Railway, and passes through Aylesbury, Winslow, Backingham, and Brackley, to Banbury, accommodating a large and important agricul tural district with carrying power to Birmingham and Banbury on the north, and to London on the south, for their cattle, coals, and lime. Mr. Thomas Pearse was examined in favour of the project. He slated he was a land steward for 20,000 acres in the district through which the line passes, and was well acquainted with the necessities of that country. No other line offered equal accommodation for reaching the cattle markets in Hereford, the coal-fields in Derby, and Stafford, and Leicestershire. He himself made 300,000 draining tiles annually, and would make double the quantity if the coals were cheaper. Mr. Humphrey Humphries, tanner, in Buckingham, stated in evi dence that it would be a great advantage to Buckingham, and per sonally considered it would be so in the conveyance of bark, fell, and leather, for in the last article ho calculated a saving of about 10s. a ton on the transit of it to London. Mr. Fraser, steward to Sir IL Verney, whose land lies in the dis trict of Banbury, stated that butter sent away on Friday did not reach London before Monday, that the timber grown in the district could scarcely be got to a market, and the bark was sold for a very reduced sum. lie calculated that a district of ten miles square exporte I annually 600 tons of butter, 9,0e0 fatted beasts, anti 30,000 sheep, which he had no doubt would be greatly increased by facilities of conveyance. The railway would offer great advantages for the carriage of store stock, and give the farmers the opportunity them • selves ol attending the market to make their own .election. The lion. Sydney P. Pierrepoint and the Duke of Buckingham were examined, and corroborated the evidence which had be•ti al ready g,:ven, both of them concurring in the rroposed line, and giving it their utmost support. 7he Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday. GROUP LV. MANCHESTER. AND HYDE RAILWAY. The Committee on this group assembled at 12 o'clock, and after much conflicting evidence it was decided that the preamble was not proved. MANCHESTER, MACCLESFIELD, AND ABIIT O'N-ITZT MI EU- LIME. After some considerat on the Committee refrained from any dect shm on this line, but adjourned until three o'clock on Monday, when their conclueon will be stated. GROUP LVI. The Committee met again at twelve o'clock, In room 29 (New Houses of Parliament) ; Mr. Ewart in the chair. All the Members were present. LONDON AND CROYDON (THAMES =NC which was originally proposed to be crossed on a level. Some dispute arose as to:whether there should be one or two side arches for foot pas sengers. It was ultimately deeided that there should be but one. The roadway in Grove-street is to be carried over the railway. It was proposed that the breadth of this road should be 30 feet, but Mr. Power represented that the trustees had it in contemplation to turn this street into a turnpike-road, and that it was necessary for this purpose that its breadth should be at least 40 feet. The Committee, after much discussion, determined to insert the clause as it stood The remaining clauses occupied the Committee up to a quarter to five o'clock, at which hour they adjourned till Monday at 12 o'clock. STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEES. HOUSE OF COMMONS. This Committi a re -assembled yesterday at two o'clock; and de cided that the Bill for the DUNDEE AND ARBROATH RAILWAY EXTENSION should be allowed to proceed. SCOTTISH CENTRAL RAILWAY. This case was called on twice, but the parties were not in at tendance. MANCHESTER, BOLTON, AND BURY CANAL NAVIGATION AND RAILWAY . Standing orders in this case not dispensed EXTENSlO with. N MIDLANDS RAILWAY. Allowed to proceed.— Th e Committee then adjourned. TION BRANCH). Mr. Walker, engineer to the Admiralty, was called and examined by Mr. Sergeant 111LittNs on the part of the Surry Canal Company. On Mr. Sergeant Wilkins putting some questions to the witness, with reference to the docks, which forms one terminus of the proposed line, Mr. Ilawraxsosr objected to any such questions, on the ground that he dock having been abandoned as a part of the Bill was no longer before the Committee. The Committee cleared the room on this point, and on our return The CHAIRMAN said that no such questions could be put. Mr. Sergeant WILKINS — Very well, sir, we will proceed with the chain and seals without the watch. The Learned Counsel proceeded to examine the witness as to the mischief that would result from the line crossing the canal on a swing bridge so near the water as that which was proposed by the pro moters of the Bill. The witness was of opinion that, to cross the canal in such a manner, would be highly objectionable. He was cross--examined by Mr. Rawlinson on the part of the promoters. _ lllr. FLUID inquired whether the Committee were of opinion th a t 1 h was entitled to examine witnesses as to the necessity for taking I l ot". property within the walls of the dockyard, and as to the c %,... 8 7 0 4 . I ;: r otui vvein ? be lt' the Committee their 1 decision, that o n s o Bence he he would withdraw. w. then pro p = to asked as to the dock, applied to the kind of evi- The Committee vrer:ithi part of the railway iyits.ion he that evidence with regard to the or the dock itself was only to the evidence as to thrrk was properly admissib u l ii e stv . erpas l i t ts that the objection on which they had decided-1r Mr. Allen, a surveyor at Rotherbithe, that in order to carry the line down to the banks called, and would be necessary to fill up a part of the dock which th e n ; m e over.Rauw Mr. Railway, h i e:g t b e s a ,i.t.e would evidence otie co o s f t about thwehi e which directorsl2,oool.w eat cessity for the proposed li ne. Mr. Sergeant the to of sh o w L o t n h d a o t n thereand was no a Greenwich .c WILICINB then rose toaddress the Committee the part of the Surrey C a more clumsy, ill-conceived,and this had never been submitted to a P It was a line which the Bin afforded no alter and remove a bridge which it contaliTredwern remove a single plank of. He, on incomplete plan than parliamentary Committee. as counsel, sho o ttlidvi in case the Bill passed, to station a body of Canal Company. He said that sto make. It was to men at bridge,thaT ia powers to alter er should say, "You shall not touch a plank or a stick of that b elients, who bridge." Again, Mr. William Cubitt hail said that, in laying down the line, he had not contemplated the alteration in the docks, or the works in in connexion with them.. flow could this be reconciled with Mr. Benjamin Cebitt s statement, that he allowed 50 , 00i. for the clearing out of the dock? How could It h e with the fact that the greater part of the hill reconciled referred to the dock? What was their preamble about? - bout ? Docks! docks! docks! docks! What were their clauses k docks ! What were their traffic tables—their estimates—their , evi " docked their scheme dente about ? Docks! And now they had . . . dwelt upon certain discrepancies be nicely. The Learned Counsel also be tween the statements of Messrs. Win. and Benjamin Cubitt , and upon the omission of coffer-dams, dock walls, purchase of certain land, and erection of stations, from the estimates. Upon the conclusion of Mr. Sergeant Wieeiss's speech, Mr. Powea said that he had to withdraw the opposition of the Tlermondsey, Rollierhithe, and Deptford-road Trustees, as regarded Trundley-lane, and that the opposition of the Haberdashers Company was also withdrawn, both parties having been satisfied by a clause which was to be inserted in the Bill. As far as the opposition had reference t i Grove-street. it depended en the result of certain Dego , tiations with the Admiralty. If the latter were satisfied with the result of these negotiations, his clients would be satisfied also. Mr. RAwbuisoN then replied to the speech of Mr. Willins. Ile pointed out the fact that the Bill had now no opponent but the Canal Company, and that all the persons whose land they would traverse were in favour of the scheme. It was nut necessary to remove the existing bridge over the canal if the proprietors of the canal were anxious that it should remain, as the new bridge could be built without touching the old one. On the conclusion of th , Learned I !ounsers address, the Committee ordered the roim to he clear , d. and after a consultation of less than a on ;,-• e. of an hour, announced their opinion that the preamble (as amended) was proved. The clauses were then read : several new ones were introduced, of which one ws, to give the power to cross Grove-lane on a level ; of ethor way to carry the railway over the poll of Trunaley-lane, RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS. EXETER, MAY 22. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Devon and Central Cornwall, 30 s. —Exeter, Yeovil, and Dorchester, 324. 6d.—Eastern Counties, New Shares, 7 p.—Dublin and Galway, 3 1 4 Bristol and Exeter, New Shares, 10Ni. _ MANCHESTER, MAT 22. STOCK EXCKANGE.—The sales are—Bideford and Tavistock, 21s. dis.—Blackburn, Clitheroe, &c., 1 dis.—Clitheroe Junction, 1% dis.—Derby and Crewe, 3 p. - East Lincolnshire, 4 dis. Essex and Suffolk, 16s. dis.—Exeter, Yeovil, and Dorchester, Is. dis.— Glasgow and Dumfries, % dis.—Goole, Doncaster, Sheffield, &c., 11-16 dis.—Huddersfield and Manchester Railway and Canal, % dis. —Lancashire and North Yorkshire, % dis.—Leicester and Bedford, 5-16 p.—Liverpool and Bury, 84 p.—Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston, p.—London and York, pAr—Ditto, Extension, dis.— Manchester, Buxton, and Matlock, 15-16 p. —Manchester and Bir mingham, Quarters (A), 8N c. p.—Ditto, ditto (C), 7% p.—Man cheater and Hyde, % p.—Manchester and Southampton, 4s. dis.— North British, Carlisle Branch, 1% c. p.—North Eastern, 1 7-16 dis. —North Staffordshire, 3% p.—Sheffield and Lincolnshire Junction, % p.—Sheffield and Manchester, Quarters, No. 3, 3-16 c Shrewsbury and Birmingham, t 4 p.—Shropshire Mineral, I% dis.— South-Eastern and Dover. Halves, No. 4, ss. —South Midland, % dis. —Trent Valley and Holyhead Junction, 19s. dis.—Welsh Midland, 245. dis.—West Lancashire Coast, % dis.—West Riding Union, 48s. p.— York and Carlisle, 14 dis. LEEDS, MAT 22. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Eastern Counties, York Ex tension, 14s. p.—East Lancashire, No. 2, 3 P.—Huddersfield and Manchester, % dis.—Huddersfield and Sheffield, 5% p.—Leeds and Bradford, 271¢ p.—Leeds and Dewsbury, 118 p.—Manchester and Leeds Extensions, 2% p.—Manchester and Birmingham, Quarter Shares (C), 7fig p.—Newcastle and Darlington Extensions, 8 p.— North British, Carlisle Branch, 225. p.—Wakefield, Pontefract, and Goole, New, 6 p.—Ambergate, Nottingham, and Boston, % dis Bradford, Wakefield, and Midland, 19s. dis.—Chelmsford and Bury, I dis.—Clitheroe Junction, 245. dis.—Clasgow and Dumfries, 10s. dis.—Goole and Doncaster, 16s. dic—Lancashire and North York shire, Bs. dis.— Lancashire, Yorkshire, and North Eastern, 28s. dis. —Leeds and York, 28s. dis.—Leeds, Wakefield, and Midland, 34 dis.—Leicester and Bedford, % p.—Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Pres ton, % p.—London and York, 2s. 6d. dia.—Manchester, Buxton, Matlock, and Midland, 18s. tki. p.—Northumberland and Lancashire Junction, 225. dis.—North Staffordshire, 31. 14s. p.—North Western, 3s. 6d. p.—Oxfird, Witney, and Cheltenham, 235. dis.—Sheffield, Rotherham, and Goole, % dis.—South Midland, Bs. p.—Welsh Mid lands, 235. 6d. dis.—West Riding Union, 41. I,s. SHEFFIELD, MAT 22. STOCK EXCAANGE.—The sales are—Nottingham and Mansfield, Is. p.—Sheffield and Lincolnshire, Is. 6d. p.—Sheffleld, Rotherham, Wakelleld, and Go)le, ss. p. —South Yorkshire Coal Railway, 13s. dis. HULL, MAY 22. STOGY ExciimmE.—The sales are—Hull and Selby, Half Shares, 27 1 4—Blackburn, Darwen, and Bolton, 64 —North British, Carlisle, 47 s. — Buckinghamshire, 445. 6d.—Chelmstbrd and Bury, 10s.—East Lincolnshire, 20s.—Goole, Doncaster, Sheffield, &c., U. Is. 6d.—Hull and Barnsley Junction, 255. 9d.—Leicester and Bedford, 11. 14s. —Leicester and Tainworth, 265. 3d.—South Midland, 33s.—Shrews bury and Birmingham, 3—West Riding Union, 41. 98. HUDDERSFIELD, MAT 22. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Huddersfield and Sheffield Junction, 17 —Clitheroo Junction, 20s. dis.—Huddersfield, Halifax, and Bradford Union, 3% —Lancashire, Yorkshire, and North Eastern, 2Ss. dis.—Manchester, Huddersfield, and Great Grimsby, 21s. 9th —North Western, 245. YORK, MAY 22. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales' are —Axholme, 11s.—Eastern Counties, York Extension, 1% —Grand Union, Nottingham and Lynn, I 2s. 6d.—lnverness and Elgin, 11. Is.— Leicester and Bedford, 11. Bs. 6d.—London and York, 21. Bs. 6d. —Mahon and Driffield Junction, 2/. 2s.—Manchester, Buxton, Matlock, and Midland, 31. 2s.—New castle and Berwick, 24%--Newcastle and Darlington Extensions, 9/. 4s.—North British, Carlisle Extension, 21. 7s.—South Midland. 1/. 10s. 9d.—Wakefield, Pontefract, and Goole, 363 i —York and North Midland, New (East and West Riding), 101. 16s. 3d. rttrix Xbitton SOUTH and MIDLANDS JUNCTION RAILWAY. SPECIAL MEETING.—(THIS DAY.) A special meeting of the proprietors and shareholders of the South Midlands Junction Railway took place this day in the London Tavern. The chair was taken by Captain L. biome Cooper. The SECRETARY read the advertisement convening the meeting, and submitted a Bill to the meeting for making a railway from Poole to join the proposed Manchester and Southampton Railway, in the parish of Collingbourne, Devises, in the county of Wilts, with a branch therefrom. The SECRETARY read a report to the meeting, setting forth the aavantages to be derived from the line, which truth he said was attested by the fact that in no line where interest on deposits had not been guaranteed had so large a proporti)n of the shares remained in the hands of the first subscribers. In consequence of the delinquency of the engineer, their plans had not been deposited in time to meet the sessional orders of the Houses of Parliament. The directors deemed themselves bound to join the Man chester and Southampton, by which priject more than three fourths of the South-Midland scheme was carried out. An HON. PROPRIETOR said that he would move for an in junction in the Court of Chancery on Monday to prevent the further proceedings of the directors.- A scene of indescribable confusion ensued, and the meet ing finally determined to dissolve the Company. It was announced that about twelve shillings and sixpence a share was all that had been spent. The meeting then broke up at about four o'clock. ROLLS' COURT.-(THIS DAY.) Lord Langdale sat to-day at ten o'clock, and proceeded with the hearing of the unopposed petitions. The proceed ings were destitute of any public interest. QUEEN'S BENCH.-(THIS DAY.) THE QUEEN AT TUE PROSECUTION OF THE HON. EAST INDIA COMPANY V. CAPTAIN DOUGLAS. The Court was occupied the entire day up to four o'clock in hearing the arguments in this case, the, facts ,of which have already been frequently published. When the defendant was called up for judgment, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL applied for a rule for a new trial upon various grounds, which he stated at great length. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, with whom was Sir Thomas Wilde, resisted the application, and thus the whole day was occupied. The other Courts sat for a short time, but in none did any case come on of the least public interest. THE FUNDS-(CLOSING PRICES.) BRITISH FUNDS. ONE CLOSINi, O'CLOCK. PRIC ES. Bank Stock .. • . • • 206 205 4 205 Three per Cent. Reduced Annuities .. 95%% 95% Three per Cent. Consols Annuities 9614 yi 96% New Three-and-a-Quarter per Cent. Anns. 97%14 97 1 4 Long Annuities, Expire Jan. 5, 1850 Ditto, 30 years, Oct. 10, 1849 India Stock .. . India Bonds, 1,0001. .. Ditto, under 1,000/. .. Consols for Account Exchequer Bills. 1,0001... 5001. . Ditto. Small Ditto, Adrertised .. 10 267 " " . 21 . 1; 7 9 c1 6 — . 34 !L ; pm. 2 1 0 7 1 - 7 2 - 0 rra. pm. 20 17 p m. ONE CLOSING FOREIGN FUNDS. O'CLOCK. PRICES. Equador Bonds .. . • • . 3 jz 3% Grenada, 1 per Cent .. .. 22 221 4 Mexican Bonds, 1837, 5 per Cent .. Ditto, for the Account .. Ditto, Deferred 171 i 17 Peruvian Ronda, 6 per Cent. .. 39% Portuguese Bonds, 5 per Cent .. 81 Russian Bonds 189% bpanish Bonds, 5 per Cent .. 24% Ditto, Three per Cent .. .. Ditto, for the Account .. 37% 37 Dividends on the above payable in London. Dutch Two-and-a-Halt per Cent Ditto, 4 per Cent. Certificates 100"2 241(2 .. 91% 91 i PRICES OF BUSINESS PAID. DONE AT CLOSING RAILWAY SHARES. PRICES. ONE O'CLOCK. and Aberdeen .. .. .. .. Amber., Notting., Bosto Eastern Junction 2% •• .. Birmingham and Oxford Junction 2 .... 2% Bristol and Exeter .. .. 75 ..... . Buckinghamshire 425. .... par .......... Caledonian .. 10 .... .......... Ditto, Half Shares .. .... ..... • . Ditto, Exten5i0n......24.... •..•.... Cambridge and Oxford.. .. .... • . Derby and Crewe .. ..... . Direct Manchester (Ilemington's) 2% .... .. • • ...... Direct Manchester (Rastrick's) s;i •• • • V ••••• • • • • • Direct Northern .. .... 17i, ••... • • • . . Dublin and Galway .. 4 .... 3% .......... Eastern Counties .. 141. 23 22 . . • . Ditto New .. 8/. 165..... Do. Perpet., 5 per Cent. No. 1.61. 13s. 4d. .......... 1% 1i 1 53n 22 , f4 7p P Ditto, York Extension 105. .... 1 .......... Edinburgh and Glasgow .. .. 50 .... .. • • Ditto 14 Shares .. 10 .... 17 IA .......... Exeter, Yeovil, and Dorchester .. 2 3 ,4 .... 2 . . Goole, Doncast., and ,heilleld,&c. 425..... 4 dls • ... • • 1 ,4 dis. Great Southern & West. (Ireland) 20 .... 23 .. • Great North of England . ..100 .......... 216 Great Western .. .. • • • • 135 •• • • ••.. • • .... 143 16% 4% Guildford, Fareham, &Portsmoth 5 1% Ipswich, Norwich, and Yarmouth 2 li dis Ditto, Quarter Shares .. • • S ........ 16 4 L/i i %.. .. : . ..... LetLeiresteterr and Birmingham B B i ed n fo in rd g 223. .• . • % I A P•• •• • % P • 226 London an ;Birmingham . ..100 .• •• ••••• • • • • • Ditto 'thirds . . . 24 .. •• 62 ••••• • • • • • 62 London and Croydon .. 13/. 15s. 9d. h .. a . m ...... ... 225. • 21% Ditto, Guarani . Five per Cent. 9..•• 9 %••• • • • • • • • 9% London and Greenwich .. 121. 15s. 4d. 9% . •• •• • • 9% London and South-Western.. 411. 6s. 10d. —•••• • • • • • _ 79 Ditto, New . .. .• .. 17% .... 28%.. •••• • • • z 5% London and York .. .. • .. .. .... 2%( ? 1 ........ 2% Ditto, Half Shares • • • • .. 2% . London and Windsor - _ .• - IA 14: - . 2 2- " " Manchester and Leeds .. .• .. 82 ..... ••••• • • • • • Manchester s7 e D v i , t t . , o, Quarters aanud B Ditto, llalf Shares .. .• .. 38 .... :• • • **** - M se id vv la e :d ti . e . Ditto, Neawnd- Southampton erwia. .... 2 .... 1 p.... •• .. 1 5,.. Manchester, Buxton, & Matlock 425. •••• % j . . une . . t . .. I ° 0 1 ( 8 3 5 :: .• 30% ' • 31 ***** .2:: 30 ' r,L, ' 8 Darlington : on North Stafford Ditto, New •••• ••••••••• 2 Staffordshire enshmi • • 4211.-•••••••• 32 43 4 % ... 1;• •• • •••• •• •• • • • .. 1 .... 0 8 , ,i ***** ... North British .. 15 .... 24% 24 .. •• • • s P h re r s e t w or s i b a u n ry d W ai : d •r ß e Ditto, Carlisle Et • • • • • • 'A .... 10 .... 61,, ..... ... • . Portsmouth Direct • •• • • ~ 425.....• •• ****** •• inniniiit. : ni : • • 25 '• • . 2 ... , .. ...... .. Scottish Midland .. :• • • •• •• • • 14 ••. •• ...., .. 4 2 25. ......:. 'T S • r •, . • :• • • ••••• •• :: South Midland _ •• ~ .. 423i4 •• • • 2 %N. ... .. South Eastern and Dovor - _ 33, 4 '1•" / 4 % dis •• • • FM., New (do. 15/.) .. No. 4. 2% .• • • •••• - " • • Warwickshire and London .. West Riding Union .. _ .. % W Y i i .. : 3 s e , a S c o h m a e n r d se S t, * T a v n e d s t • l • reym " outh 5 .... 3L I :: • • •• • • • • • York sad North Midland .. .. 50 _• • ___' •• ' •• • • Do. E. rind W. Riding Exten..• 1 •• • • 11 .. •,., " • • FOREIGN RAILWAYS. • • •• Boulogne and Amiens .. •.,, 12 .... _ ... Dutch Rhenish • • • • , • • • • 6 • • ••• 'lli% ••• ••• ~.. East In lia,, .. . ... ~ •• B s. .. .. __ .. .... .... treat Indian Peninsular .. .. ss. .... Jamaica South Midland Junction 1 .... im .. ...... Luxembourg 4 .... .- ••........ ••• • •• •• .. .... .... ...... Namur and Liege • • • • 5 ... 6 7 4 ...••••• Paris and Lyons Constituted .. 20 .... 39% ••.. • • .... Paris and Rouen • . • • • • • • .Northern of France Constituted.. 5 .... 14% .......... West Flanders .. • • • • • MINES. 8:34 24 29 3% 214 3j 1. 314 30 614 2% 34 dig par 214 p 1 Real del Mate, 'Unregistered .. • 3 °A IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, 3lay 22. Their Lordships met a few minutes before five celock. SEES OF ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR. The Bishop of HEREFORD presented a petition from the clergy of Wenlock, against the union of the Sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. THE MINISTERIAL MEASURE. Earl DUCIE presented a petition from the parish of Lees, in favour of the repeal of the corn-laws. The Noble Lord also presented a petition from the agricultural labourers of Hampshire to the same effeet. Messengers from the Commons browy,ht up several Bills. FREE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. Lord CAMPBELL presented a number of petitions, nume rously signed by inhabitants of Argyle, Perth, Inverness. Ayr, and several other counties in Scotland, praying their Lordships to adopt some measures to enable the petitioners to obtain sites for building churches. The Earl of ABERDEEN presented petitions to the same effect. CORN-LAWS. Lord MONTEAGLE presented several petitions from Bridport, Portsmouth, the Isle of Wight, and other places, in favour of the Government measure. ART UNIONS. The Duke of CAMBiUDGE presented a petition from the members of the Art- Union of London, praying for the legalisa tion of art-unions. Lord MONTEAGLE wished to call the attention of her Majesty's Government to this petitio2, which was the first of a series that would be presented on the subject, representing the f.elings or not only the artists of the country, but the great body of those who were interested in the tine arts The Committee of the House of Commons, appointed in 1t.35, had made inquiries which showed that art-unions had been attended with the most beneficial consequences wherever carried out. The amount of capital which had been devoted to the pur poses of art by the art-unions exceeded all the votes which Parliament had ever given fur that purpose. They had done more for the promotion of art than the Legislature ever had done. They had applied their encouragement to every branch of art,—they had given prizes, as Government had done, for the best designs,—they gave prizes also for the best productions in stone and marble. They had extended, too, their association over the greater portion of the earth. and a letter had been received that very day from China, giv ing an account of the establishment of a branch of the art.. union in that empire. It was scarcely to be believed that, in defiance of all the experience which they had had on this sub ject, any doubt should exist as to the desirableness of le galising art-unions. A Committee had been appointed by Parliament, who had laboured sedulously for two sessions, and they reported in the most unqualified manner that these associations should be legalised. It appeared that the art-unions were as anxious as any other society to prevent abuse, and they prayed their Lord ships to give their sanction to a Bill authorising the Crown to grant a charter, subject to such conditions as might be pro posed. That was the utmost extent of their request, and when their Lordships considered that they had released parties from debts contracted at race-courses and gambling-houses; and when they considered that they had in the course of last year interposed to protect a great bodylof the people—those con nected with the newspaper press—the artists of this country were not asking their Lordships too much to afford them a similar protection. Lord BROUGHAM said he was exceedingly rejoiced that this subject had been brought forward as it had by the illus trious Duke who had introduced it, and the Noble Lord who had supported it. His own opinion in favour of those soci eties was very strong, and therefore he would give this petition his humble but warm support. And let him say that there never was a greater delusion than that which people laboured under who opposed art-unions on the ground that they came under the class of lotteries. Other trades contended that they would have as good a right as art-unions to have their lotteries; but he denied that trades required such aid; but pictures and articles of ta , te did require some such encouragement as art unions afforded, and therefore he would cordially support the prayer of this petition. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition, nu merously signed by perons of great eminence in their profes sion as artists--among the names attached to the petition he saw those of Eastlake, Ross, Barry, NV estmacott, and others— praying their Lordships to adopt some measure for placing Art- Unions on a more permanent footing. Lord BR , )UGHAM would ask, in connexion with the name of Barry, who, it appears, had signed the petition of the Noble Marquis, w hether there was any hope, if there was hops at all remaining, when the report of the commission on the new Houses of Parliament would be laid upon their Lord• ships' table. • Vi.count CANNING was informed by one of the gentlemen forming one of the commission, that the inquiry had been of a more complicated nature than was expected. The report would therefore take some time before it was completed. Lord CAMPBELL thought this inquiry must surely be carried on in the Court of Chancery. He thought it would not be of so protracted and seriuus a nature as this case of Barry v. Reid. The Marquis of NORTIIA minciN and Lord MoNTEAaLE pre sented petitions in favour of Art Unions. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. The Duke of WELLINGTON, after presenting a potitir•n from the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester, in favour of the Corn Bill, stated that he should on Thursday next move that the liou-e do adjourn for tide Whitsuntide holidays to the Thursday following. CORN BILL. The Earl of BANDON presented petitions from places in Ireland against the Corn Bill. The Noble Earl said that he could not support the prayer of the petition as he did not par ticipate in the alarm that was felt by some persons with re spect to the Corn Bill. CASE OF MR. GEORGE MITCHELL. Lord BROUGHAM rosa to call the attention of the House to one of the most cruel cases of hardship that had ever come under his notice. He had to present the petition of Mr. Gro. Mitchell, formerly a clerk of the House, from which situation he had been dismissed. The petitioner stated, that in the year 1845,frosa an accident that he had met with, his face and head had been greatly injured, and his sight permanently impaired. Several years ago he had been attacked with epilepsy, by which he had lost the use of his right side. He was also afflicted with ulcerous swellings in his legs. In fact, it appeared that he was subjected to every malady that could afflict the human frame. Through his maladies his attend ance on his duties were necessarily irregular, and he had suf fered exceedingly in the loss of his situation at the age of thirty-six. The petition, which was dated the Strand union workhouse, prayed that their Lordships would extend their benevolence to him, and grant him such assistance as it was in the power of the House to bestow. The Earl of DEVON said it was an unpleasant task to in terpose at any time between individuals and the benevolence of the House ; still he was bound to say that the petitioner was placed under the chief clerk of the House, but his conduct h a d been such as made it the absolute d u t y o f? the latter to remove him from the office he held. More than this he (Lord Devon) would net say.—(Hear, hear.) Lurd BROUGHAM said the Noble Lord had totally mis understood him. The petitioner did not complain of having been removed, he merely asked their Lordships to extend their charity to him. LORDS HARDINGE AND GOUGH'S ANNUITY BILLS. _ _ The Duke of WELLINGTON moved that these Bills be read a first time and printed. The Bills were accordingly read a first time, and ordered to be printed. SEES OP ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented a petition against the union of these sees. BISHOPRIC OE MANCHESTER. The same Most Reverend Prelate presented a petition praying that a bishop might be immediately appointed to the newly_ established see of Manchester. THE CORN BILL. The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a petition from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses of Kingston -upon-Hull, praying their Lordships to pass without delay the Ministerial Corn Bill. The same Noble Marquis also presented a petition from a town in Ireland, praying for th e l ega li sat i on of tenaqt rights in that country, intimating, at the same time, that he did not thereby wish to express any opinion upon this very difficult subject. STATE OF CRIME IN IRELAND. The Marquis of NORMANBY then proceeded, amidst cries of " Order," for the purpose of asking for a return of the murders, and attempts at murder, in Ireland during each month, commencing from the Ist of July in each year,'distinguishing the hours of day or night at which such outrages were stated to have been committed by the constabulary force. He felt it necessary to ask for the attention of the House to this subject, the more especially as he intended to make a few observations upon the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers, in connexion with the Bill which had lately passed this House, and to the language used by the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Government in another place, in which he had been personally alluded to. It did so happen, that about six weeks after the session had commenced, and when he was unavoidably absent, a Bill was introduced into this House —called by the opponents of it, the Irish Coercion Bill, and by those who supported it the Protection of Life (Ireland) Bill—and no doubt it had been supported by many of his Noble Friends who had had a long experience of Ireland. He would not have deemed it necessary to have alluded to this measure now, but a circumstance which had since oc_ curred compelled him to do so. No man could more deeply deplore than he did the increase of crimes of this description, or that Ireland should be made the subject of such a measure as this, and at a time too when of all others the country most needed the united sympathies of both Houses of Parliament. Now he should say that no informa tion that had reached him as to the state of Ireland was such as in his opinion to call for this measure, and be was far from thinking that it was one which would reach the evil complained of. He did think it rather extraordinary that her Majesty's Ministers should have been of opinion at the commencement of the session that this measure was necessary, and that they had since had reason to change that opinion, although some such measure had been alluded to in the speech which her Majesty's Ministers had advised her to deliver from the throne at the opening of the present session. He considered that a timely display of vigour was the most efficacious check upon crimes of this nature. He wcs still of opinion that a system atic, steady perseverence in the administration of the law would have been amply sufficient to check these crimes. Of this he was sure, that of all the courses which could have been taken, and one which seemed to unite all the evils which could possibly be combined in a measure, was the course which had been taken by the Go vernment on this occasion—an occasion when they adopted a system of tardy, meddling coercion, conceding, with feeble hesitation, their arobation of extraordinary powers, while, pp at the sa me time, an efficient administration of the law of the Constitution would have been quite sufficient for all purposes. her Majesty's seemed to him something of this carelessness at the time when th e Bill was fi rst i n t ro duced to th e i r L or d s hi p .. He believed th a t fi ve weeks had elhpsed from the p er i o d o f 's speech till the measure was introduced. Even then it came in with all the humbling deftcts in its construc tion which have marked the practice of the law department of the Irish Government. At last the Bill was sent down to the other House. He could not then dwell on the tedious nature of its passage through that House. He knew the difficulties in which the Government were placed there. He thought the ignorant might imagine that the delay which took tw w h h a es e y n i he a t t h ed place in that House arose from indifference to crime. theThenig h t B e i tl timel all. of f t whenhwe What theGovernmentet wouldaman ba ce ktlontuoil impression prt come ehsesmi n i into thatf of f operation the p t e h r le a rr t ie i just s o h n wpaes opnal people believed e o v f e certain dthat all articles p rtie of in c l o r n e- - l s : m d p w ti n o r n e ? ag l a ' i h n e st im th p e r p es a s s i s o i r n a g of n t f he th l e ri ß sh ili p .eoHp l enjwi Life and Property (Ireland) Bill was postponed to a Bill which lad indsobven, moved for returns mentioned in his motion, because all the crimes which more favourableD ur ngt the the Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government had men tioned imi thene.in proposing the Bill, had occurred in the of his two predecessors, e e tdhe t ae i n m e thatohres were a h s e thheel they under officetbhae Administra tion in Ireland hi A " d Pe m e in ch i;tratio n , the circumstances of the country things during his contend with, arising out of the Catholic di crue e s u t l i t o ie n s , which he had not. He must inform their Lordships, in Homer to what had been said in reference the to himself by a Noble Lord, that he took credit of the state of administration, ner which be discharged his duties. Ali he could claim was as arising from the mode in zealously endeavouring to avail himself of the favourable cir cumstances which his predecessors hod not. In 1835 the great paint he had to consider was, whether he should carry into effect the provisions and powers of the measure under which his two predecessors had acted, and he considered the course he had taken on that occasion was the correct one. He, therefore, would say that the discovery on the part of the Right. Hon. Gentleman was of a very wrange description, if he had lately discovered that the line of conduct he had pursued for twenty years was not only inexpedient but unjust. The Right Hon. Gentleman had availed himself of the Easter recess to make that discovery, and he (the Marquis of Normanby) under stood that this measure was to he postponed till after the Whitsuntide recess, and he hoped that he would have also availed himself of that recess, and speedily come to the conclusion that the measure ought not to be pro ceeded with—that he might, in fact, come to the conviction that unnecessary coercion was not the way to inspire confidence ; that it was not at. the time to which he alluded, that it never had been, and that it never would be, as long as human na tare was what it always had been. But to what would the argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that unnecessary coercion was beneficial merely on account of the fear which it was calculated to inspire —to what conclusion, he would ask. would that lead ? He would say, that there was no despo tism—no autocracy provided ;it was only administered in a particular manner, which might. not be justified upon ;those grounds which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made use of on the occasion alluded to. He (the Marquis of Normanby) would therefore say, that this inference was not justified in point of fact, and that it was dangerous in its general applica tion. And if that was really the sentiment of the Right Hon. Baronet, they could only rejoice that it was not the sentiment of a strong Minister, backed by the majority of nearly a hun dred. He (the Marquis of Iktorenanhy) felt it necessary to bring this subject lief.re their Lot dehips in justification of the conduct of himself arid his party ; and he felt it necessary, before he sat down, to ask the Noble Earl opposite whether it was the intentioe of the Government to proceed with this measure.—( Hear, hear.) He felt certain that it was neither the desire of their Lordships nor the country, that the Bill should be held up in its present state of suspended animation. If it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the measure, let them at once meet that opposition which was awaiting it elsewhere. He contended that it was trifling with the country, if they did not at once proceed with or withdraw this measure; but he believed it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with it this session. He ought to apo 'eszise to their Lordships for having thus occupied their time in reference to a Bill which ha - clpaesed their Lordships' House, hut he was anxious to make the statements which he had made, in justification of his conduct with reference to Ireland. He hoped, in conclusion, that the Noble Earl opposite would in form their Lordships what was the intention of her Majesty's Ministers with respect to this measure.—( Hear, hear.) Earl ST. GERMANS said it was quite unnecessary for the Noble Marquis to have stated that he was absent from the House mean the occasion he had alluded to; for inde pendent of the regret which they all felt that the Noble Marquis should have been absent, he thought that the Noble Marquis's absence sufficiently accounted for his not being acquainted with the causes in which this Bill had originated. In the autumn of last year the crime of murder, and attempts at murder, had become so lamentably frequent, that it became absolutely necessary to grant ad . ditional powers to Government to repress it; and those powers were not, asked for until all the powers then at the disposal of Government had been employed to meet the evil without suc cess. It was with that conviction upon the minds of her Ma 'esty's Ministers that they had deemed it their duty to advise her Majesty to call the attention of both Houses c f Parliament to the state of Ireland, and to adopt some measure whereby to remedy the evil; and both Houses of the Legislature responded to that recommendation. But the Noble Marquis had made it a cause of complaint against her Majesty's Ministers, that they had not peremptorily called for this measure. Now, he (Earl St. Germans) would say, that he did not blush at her Ma jesty's Ministers having delayed to ask for such a measure, for he said it was no light matter to ask for a measure by which to abridge the constitutional right of the subject— and the Government did hope that when her Majesty bad ex pressed her abhorrence of such a state of things as then ex isted in Ireland, and that the Government were prepared to adopt such a measure as this, it would have had a good effect in the disturbed districts ; but he regretted to say it had not had that effect. He should also say that the Government did deserve credit for the manner in which they had brought this Bill forward ; and nothing also could be more creditable than the conduct of Noble Lords opposite, who evinced no party feeling whatever during the discussion ; and when a division did take place (the only one which did occur) not a single Peer connected with Ireland was to be found in the minority upon the division. The Bill was sent down to the House of Commons on the lath of March, and it. was not read a first time till the Ist of May. For this delay the Government were not responsible. The minority of both Houses pos sessed ;considerable power—( Hear, hear)—he thought that it was a power which should he exercised with great discretion The minority of the House of Commons had thought it right to obstruct the progress of this Bill not only in that stage, but they also announced that they would oppose it in all its future stages. He believed it was the imperative duty of the Govern ment to proceed with the Bill in the manner they did. It was in order to same time, and Fars the Bill as soon as possible, that it was introduced to their Lordships' House first, and sent down afterwards to the House of Commons. They hoped to be able, when the public business was less pressing than at present, to bring the Rill again under the notice of the House. The Noble Marquis had attempted to turn into derision a pro vision in the Bill, urging the inhabitants of disturbed districts to keep within their houses at particular hours but the Noble Marquis, while he was making that attempt, must have forgotten that a similar provision was introduced and passed in a Bill which received the legislative sanction during his own administratinn.—( Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he had only to tell the Noble Marquis that the opinions of her Majesty's Government, upon the subject of this Bill, remained still un shaken, and it was therefore their intention to persevere in the measure. —(Heer. hear.) The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought the Noble Earl had given a very extraordinary reason why the introduction of the Bill was postponed. The Noble Earl had said that Go vernment was in hopes the declaration in the speech from the throne upon the subject of crime in Ireland would have hail the effect of suppressing those outrages, which had been of so fre quent occurrence in the sister country. and which were so ranch deplored on all hands ; but in his (the Marquis of Clanri carde's) opinion, the Government had shown a want of deci sion, or want of judgment, in delaying the introduction of this Bill, after they had received an intimation from Ireland that such a measure leas necessary for the protection of life and pro perty in that country.—( Hear, hear.) He had only to repeat, that he thought it was still the duty of Parliament to use every consitutional means in their power to suppress outrage and maintain the liberty of the subject. in Ireland.—( Hear. ) After a few words in explanation from the Earl of ST. GERMANS, which did not reach the gallery, The Duke of WELLINGTON said the Bill was in prepara tion before the session commenced, and Ministers were at the same time in communication with the Irish Government upon it. The law officers of the Crown, however, had to setae the Bill before it could be introduced into Parliament, and of course this occupied a good deal of the time after the commencement. of the session.—( Hear.) It was that which prevented the Bill being introduced earlier than it was. The LORD CHANCELLOR spoke a few words in confir mation of what had fallen from the Noble Duke. The Earl of WICKLOW said, in his opinion, so unconsti tutional a measure as a Coercion Bill ought never to have been introduced, unless there was an absolute necessity for it, and certainly not if Government did not intend to press it through Parliament. The measure, it was said, was brought forward for the protection of life and property in Ireland, and it was - upon that ground that their Lordships passed it, but the manner in which it was treated by Government in the other House was perfectly disgraceful. They allowed measures of a financial character to have precedence of it, and from what he could learn from the public prints of what passed in the other House, actually agreed that it should not be brought forward for the second reading until the House allowed corn, and other financial measures before the Howe, to be disposed of.—( Hear, hear.) In his opinion, this was most disgraceful, for delay would only render the Bill inoperative. Besides, if this pro tection fur life and property was required by the people of Ire. land, the Bill ought to be pushed forward at once, and passed without a moment's delay.—( Hear, hear.) The Marquis of NORMANBY said, from the language of the Queen's speech, it would naturally have been inferred that there was an absolute necessity for such a Bill, and that it was the intention of Government to bring it in and press it for ward without any delay.—(Hear, hear.) There appeared however, and in fact there was, a contradiction between such language and the present course of the Government ; indeed there was an actual contradiction between this language and what had fallen from the Noble Earl opposite. The Noble Earl did not say that the Bill would he proceeded with at once, but only whenever the state of public business admitted of is being proposed to the House of Commons to read the Bill a second time.—( Hear, hear. ) The Earl of HAD DINGTON said it was quite impossible that Government could press the measure forward faster than they hail done, for their Lordships would remember that Par liament had been placed in such a position with regard to the Corn Bill, that Government could not, consistently with their duty to the co un t ry, h ave i nterposed any measure which should have the effect of delaying its progress.—( Hear.) The Duke of RICHMOND did not think with the Noble Lord that the Government would have acted improperly if they had not delayed proceeding with the Bill in consequence of the threats of a minority of the House. The Government gave way to threats too much. The Corn Bill was brought forward in consequence of threats held out to them. The real reason why the Government d:d not proceed with the Bill was, be. cause they themselves were in a minority, and could not keep a House. The Government had but 112 supporters, whereas the Irish minority spoken of had been 125. The Earl of H ADDINGTON stated that he did not refer to the numbers who voted for the Bill, he only referred to the small minority who opposed the Bill. The Marquis of NOR MANBY would put an end to the discussion by moving for the returns he had alluded to. At the same time, it was his opinion that the Bill would not pass into law. The motion was then agreed to. CORN-LAWS. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a number of peti tions, from Cornwall and other places, against the repeal of the corn-laws. FATTENING CATTLE. Lord BEAUAIONT presented a petition from a gentleman who had made a number of experiments with malt for the purpose of fattening cattle, praying their Lordships to take the excise duty off that article. The petitioner stated that malt was much better for the purpose than barley. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought tae result of his experiments were contrary to the opinion given before the Committee. The Duke of RICHMOND could bring forward a thousand farmers, whose experience was of more weight than all the theories of scientific men. After a short discussion upon the comparative merits of bar ley and malt, The Duke of RICHMOND stated that he knew a farmer, residing close by the Noble Lord on the Woe!sack, who was himself a great farmer, who considered that malt was prefer able to barley. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that perhaps the individual referred to by the Noble Duke argued only by analogy, he judged perhaps from the effects of malt on his own person. Several other petitions were then presented, and their Lord ships adjourned. DOUSE OF COMMONS, May 22. The SPEAKER took the chair at Four o'clock. REPORTS. The following reports were brought up and agreed to, and the Bills ordered to be engrossed, viz.:—Hamilton New Gas, Aston Rates, Gollon Inclosure, Airdrie Police, Caledonian In surance Company, Ayle.bury and Thames Junction Railway, Midland, Barnsley, Sheffield, Dewsbury, and Bradford Rail. way, York Improvement, Harrogate Waterworks, London and South-Western Railway (Farnham and Alton branch), R ea d. ing, Guildford, and Reigate Railway. MARQUIS OF DONEGAL'S ESTATE BILL This Bill was read a second time and ordered to b e committed. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time, and passed : Buckinghamshire Railway (Oxford and Bletchley Junction), Rye and Derwent Drainage, Westruther Read, Greenlaw Roads, Port Ellen Harbour, Carshalton Rates, Gra7esend and tfilton Water Is orks. WEXFORD, CARLOW, AND DUBLIN JUNCTION RAILWAY. Mr. GROGAN moved---" That it he an instruction to the Committee of Seleeti )n to refer the Wexford, Carlow, and Dublin Junction Railway Bill, being unopposed, to Mr. Greene, end the Members in charge thereof."—The motion was withdrawn. The HON. GENTLEMAN also moved—" That it be an in struction to the Committee of Selection to refer the Dublin Wide Streets Bill and the Dublin Cemeteries Bill to the same Committee."—The mo'ion was agreed to. GENERAL TERMINUS AND GLASGOW HAR BOUR BILL. Mr. DENNISTOUN moved—" That in the case of the General Terminus and Glasgow Harbour Railway Bill, Stand ing Order No. 121 be suspended, and the proposed amendments, being merely verbal, be made on the third reading."—The motion was agreed to. YORK DIPROVEMENT BILL. Mr. GREENE, on the bringing up of the report from the Committee on the York improvement Bill, moved that the Bill be re-committed to the former CommittE e. That the Com mittee have leave to sit and report on Monday next.— Agreed to. GLASGOW MUNICIPAL POLICE BILL. Mr. APKENZIE presented a petition from some of the in habitants of Glasgow against the introduction of certain clauses into this Bill, which would he the means of materially affecting their interests. The p;tition was ordered to be laid on the table. LEEDS, WAKEFIELD, AND MIDLAND JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL. Mr. P. BENNETT presented several petitions against this Bill. CORNWALL RAILWAY. Sir CHARLES LEMON presented 156 numerously signed petitions in favour of this Bill. BASINGSTOKE AND SALISBURY RAILWAY. The same Hort. MEMBER also presented two petitions in favour of this Bill. Mr. BARNARD presented a petition in favour of Art Union Societies. Mr. HAWES presented a petition against the Highways Bill. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from tenants under Trinity College, and others interested in land in the barony of Irraghticonnor, in the county of Kerry, praying the House forthwith to carry into effect the recommendations of Lord Devon's Commission, so far as regards the conversion of College tenures into perpetuities; and to move that the peti tion be printed with the votes. FREE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. Mr. BAILEY presented a petition from Sirathaven, in favour of the Bill of the Hon. Member for Montrose for enabling parties to obtain sites for building churches. AIR. W. S. 0. BRIEN. Mr. D. O'CONNELL presented seventy petitions from various parts of Ireland, signed by upwards of 60 000 persons, praying the House to discharge W. S. O'Brien from custody. TEN HOURS' BILL. Mr. HUME presented a petition against the proposed Fac tories Regulation Bill. Sir CHARLES NAPIER gave notice that he would, on Monday nev, move for a return of the number of steam frigates built for the service of the Royal Navy. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD gave notice that he would, on Monday next, put a question to one of her Majesty's Ministers for the purpose of learning whether it was the inten tion of Government to bring in a Bill founded on the report of the Land Commission of Ireland. RELIEF OF THE POOR (SCOTLAND.) Mr. BOUVERIE wished to ask the Lord Advocate of Scot land whether a printed paper, entitled " Application for Relief," has been printed and circulated in Scotland, with the know ledge and sane ion of the Board of Supervision of the poor ; if so, whether it has been with the sanction of the Lord Advocate or Secretary of State for the Home Department ; and, if it has been with their knowledge and sanction, whether the appli cants for relief are required to answer the queries contained in that form of application before their claim to relief is consi dsred, or that claim allowed. There were twenty-three queries in that paper to read over which would occupy the House too long. Now according to the law of Scotland every destitute person was entitled to relief, and he wasgiven to under stand that unless all these queries were filled up the application for relief would be refused. What he wanted to know, theretore, was, whether th.i circulation of that paper was sanctioned by the Board of Supervision, and if so, whether re lief was refused unless those queries were answered. The LORD ADVOCATE said, that with regard to the first part of the question, he had to state, that the paper en titled, " Application for relief," had been printed and circulated with the knowledge and sanction of the Board He understood that the queries had been printed at the desire of some persons as a form of queries to be put to parties apply ing for reli e f. B y th e statute persons applying for relief were bound to answer such questions in order that the dis pensers of it might be enabled to judge of the nature of their claim; but the parties so applying were entitled to relief in the mean time ; he did not, however, be lieve that any one had been refused relief, because they were un able, or refused to reply to the questions. But if any one did refuse, he might, by applying to the local judge, obtain instant relief, that officer being empowered to grant it. The queries were absolutely necessary, in order that the different parishes might not be imposed upon. The dropped orders of yesterday were then read. BRIDPORT ELECTION. Mr. CHRISTIE postponed his motion on this subject unti' Thursday next. RAILWAY COMPANIES' BILL. Sir GEORGE CLERK expre.sed his intention of pro ceeding with this Bill after the other orders of the day had been disposed of. MR. SMITH O'BRIEN. On the order of the day for the consideration of Mr. Smith O'Brien's letter to the Speaker being read, Mr. O'CONNELL moved that the minutes connected with the committal of that gntleman be read. The minutes having been read, Mr. O'CONNELL said that it was his intention to state the facts of the case as they really occurred, and to move a re<olu tion that the order of the 27th April should he discharged, it being illegal in the first place, and obtained by gross mis representation to the ,House. Of course he did not impute to the Honourable Gentleman any wilful misrepresentation, of whic's he believed him to be perfectly incapable. But he had, in his opinion, grossly misintormed the House, which would never have made the order except upon his state ment. The gentleman represented himself to be the chairman of the Committee of Selection, t.' , e existence of which he begged leave to deny. However, he called himself the chair man of it, and stated the substance of a correspondence which took place between themselves and the Honour. able Member for Limerick, aril upon tLat statement he ob tained the order which he now moved should be discharged. Now if he was able to show that it was obtained on statements founded on error, he considered he had a fair claim upon the House to accede to his motion. He denied the existence of the Committee of Selection. He granted that the materials for such Committee existed, but that the Committee itself existed he wholly denied. And now he would direct the attention of the House very shortly to another part of the subject, which, in his judgment, was one of the utmost importance, and which, on consideration of the matter, ought to be first attended to. They would find that by the first standing, order of the House a Committee of 42 Members was appointed, and by the second standing order these were allowed to be divided intosub-Committees.eaeh Com mittee appointing its own chairman, and the next order decided a Committee should be appointed every session, and that such Committee should be a Select Committee of Standing. Orders. It was enacted, and to this he begged the particular at tention of the House, that that Committee should he appointed at the commencement of every session, and that it should con sist of the chairman of the standing orders, and the chairman of Sub-Committees, three of whom was to form a quorum, and that that Committee should be denomina'ed the Committee of Selection. If that Commie ee had been formed at the com mencement of the session he would give up the question, but he asserted that no such Committee had been appointed • that no question of it s appo i ntment was brought before the douse ; in short a total vacancy existed as to the formation of a Select Committee. This brought the mat ter within a very narrow e, - ,mpass, and the letter which had been rec, ived from the Chief Clerk showed clearly that such a Committee had not been formed at the commencement of this Session. He had taken the trouble to search the votes on the journals of the House, and he could find none such. But it had been suggested to him that as the materials of the Select Committee were in existence, it might be supposed to be fully constituted, and that, therefore, its re-appointment on every succeeding session was unnecessary. He utterly denied that because it would deprive every Member of the House of a right to which he was entitled. The House, it was well known, did not appoint the Chairmen of the Committees, they were elected by the Committees themselves. He found in the Journals of the House, of the 23th of February, 1845, that the order of the House had been moved, relative to the appointment of the Committee of Se!ection ; and that such an appointment was accordingly made fir a similar order in the session of 1846. He found that none such existed. No opportunity had been afforded to the flon. Member for complying with the orders of the House. He then had to consider the right of the COmmittee of Selection to enforce his opinions. This was precisely the principle upon which Mr. Smith O'Brien had acted, and when the Committee ' of Selection, he believed, had acted beyond their powers, he refused to acknowledge their authority, and he believed that it was quite in accordance with the rules of this House, Mr. Smitn O'Brien had accordingly le fused to take any notice of the application of the Committee of Selection. The ques tion then arose, whether the authority of the Committee of Selection was to be attended to in preference to the rules of the House of Commons. According to the rules as he under stood them, there was an express directi o n that this Committee should act in accordance with the rules of the House. He should therefore move, that as the Committee of Selection had not, or. examination, ler en instituted in accordance with toe rules of the House, that the order of the 27th of April should be discharged; and, secondly, that Mr. Smith O'Brien should be remitted from custody. If he succeeded in the first of these motions, the second would follow as a matterof course, and Mr. S. O'Brien would be discharged from custody. If he did not succeed in the tint, he would have a right to take the sense of the House. and he should therefore, on that point, move for the discharge of Mr. Smith O'Brien. Mr. ESTCOURT said, he had little or no answer to make to the motion of the Hon. Member. Acecording to the rules of the House there had been two Committees established, which involved the whole of the question. He need not tell the House what had been the course the Hon. Member (Mr. Smith O'Brien) had thought proper to pursue. But this much he might remind them of, that these iio several Committees had been appointed for carrying t? I with as much view to the convenience of Members business of the country, and that they had been constituted with of b 4 e B r M embers, r t eek rulesha d c(o)fmtmhiisttedthis took e exception. pos sible. One of these Committees consiste H d e out the orders Another andCorn was termed the Committeemo m ; na i t t uh t Committee otih. That Selection. holtoto carryingn C mittee was appointed for the purpo o se_y embers, and was called of the House; it consisted of i s tt e e ie e. M It wast.ohmiAantimecimottnbeteerral Committeeoae rs n contravention t n mi hi called the Standing Orders' C stated o uustaetsews were the Committee of Selection. ehe(Awlras the Hon. Gentlemen that unless that Committee was ap pointed grounds of that exception , _ ,„ s it, o , it could not discharge the d • t e b ve y ry the Housea.ndltL Learned eodn Gentleman that po point that at signeissue as d to withn Estcourt) conceived that the standing orders of the If the laws which regulated the proceedings of the House of the Hon. Com mons. It was well known to the House, and, in fact, by byothers, that the standing orders of the House wereulndot an'an nual piece of legislation, but were laws which wo in force to govern th e H ouse of Commons until altere e d on o t r inue re pealed. The Committee of Selection had been established for several years—it was seven years, he thought, since they were constituted, under the auspices of the H nise. Now, lie con tended that when the Standing Orders' Committee, or the Committee of Selection had been consttiuted, that those Com mittees were app o i nted and established by the ' express rul es o f the House, and they mast continue until altered i o t r w a d s i s n so o l v u e n d f; eque ff n e t prwocaesedib ng or o n f e the ou H t ou i s n e to t a h p is p , oin b t e c ca o u m s - e mittees for various purposes each session, whose labours were confined to that particular session of Parliament, unless they became sessional orders by direction of the House. The dis • tinction between Committees so appointed for a particular purpose in one session of Parliament, and sessional orders, which continued from session to session, until altered or re pealed by the House, was, in his opinion, perfectly evident, With regard to Committees on Private Bills, did tit IIL Member for Derby come to the House to move for the ap pointment of a Committee on a petition on a Private Bill ? The Hon. Member did not submit a motion to the House. He did not give notice that on a given day he should move for the appointment of a Committee on a petition on a Private Bill. He came to the House and directed that the standing order shall be read, then nominated the Committee, and tin , ' nomination was entered on the journals. The same tieing 0 0 ' curred with regard to himself when the standing order wee to be appointed. He did not come to the House and give notice of a motion, that the Committee on a standing order should be appointed, but he came to the House and required that stand ing orders 3 or 4 should be read, and when they were read, be nominated the Members to constitute the Standing Orders' Committee. With regard to the Committee of Selection, be was aware that at the beginning of last session there was an entry on the Journals that the Committee of Selection was al ) " pointed, or was to be appointed, but he considered that that entry was not regular; and en consulting the highest authority he could consult on the subject this sessions, his apprehension was confirmed by those authorities, viz.—that it was not ne cessary to enter the appointment of these Committees, if they were appointed according to the proper construction the standing orders. He contended that the nomination of these Committees ought to be fou n d i n th e journals of th e House. All Committees were appointed by the s tanding, orders, and nothin g more was necessary than to call out an d nominate the Members, and then turn to standing order 4, and the entry made there. The appointment of the Com mittee was by the standing orders, but the nomination of the Member was not by the House. At the same time that the Committee was appointed, the Members were nominated, gen e' rally being th e c h a i rman of the standing orders, and the cha ir- men of the Committees and Sub-Committees on petitions ell Private Bills, and of whom three should be a quorum. 11 ; considered that th e appo i ntment of the Committee was get' With regard to their being no entry of the appointment of such Committee, it was wholly unnecessary that there should be such an entry upon the journals of the House, the Committee bein constituted in accorance wit the standin orders. It did g not appear to him that the Hon, h Gen leman h g ad rested his objection on any other ground than informality, and be trusted he had shown th at t h e appointment was sufficient , an d that there had been n o d e fi c i ency whatever in the forms w hi c h had been followed. He did not think that any grounds wh at' ever had been shown f or t h e i nterference of the House. He trusted, therefore, the House would see that the construction be put upon the case was the correct one, and he hoped t h a t it would not take the view of the Hon. Member (Mr. O'Connell) but would support the Committee of Selection. Mr. WARBURTON thought the question should be con sidered totally irrespective of the case of Mr. Smith O'Brien; The question f or t h em to consider simply was whet h er the Committee of Selection was appointed or not. If the construc tion of the Hon, Member for Oxford be the true tmet the language would not have been "that a Committee be ap pointed at the commencement of every session ;" the lan guage would rather have been, " That the chairman of the Select Committee on standing orders, and the chairmen of the Sub-Committees on petitions far private Bills be a Com mittee for such and such purpo<es." That clearly would have been the language of the standing order, had it been the in tention of the House that the sessional order should be con tinued in the sense taken of it by the Hon. Member for Ox ford. But wht, had appointed this Committee ? It was quite clear that some one must have appointed it. The Committee could not appoint itself. The Speaker, he believed, had not appointed it, and again he must ask who had appointed the Committee ? He thought it better that they should confess at once that there had been some negligence shown some where or other, or that some misinterpretation of the words of the standing order had taken place, and, therefore, the s ooner . they returned to th e rea di ng o f t h e Act, the sooner "souk' they do justice to the Hon. Member, and to that House itself. Sir GEORGE GREY said that, in his opinion, the words of the statute were to be interpretated in precisely a similar waY with the w or di ng o f ot h er pr i vate Bills, and the H ouse had_ sanctioned by m an y prece d ents t hi s v i ew of t h e case. 11,: found, in refere nce to t h e nom i nat i on of Comm i ttees on priva te Bills, that the standing order No. I should be moved at the commencement of every session. He found that that order was that the Committee should consist of 42 Members, five to be a quorum in opposed cases and three a quorum in cases not 471- posed. But th e House did not in every case require that th is order should b e su b stantiated by a motion. He found i n d e ed that with th e except i on of 1845, the year adverted to by t a e Hon. and Lea rne d M em b er for Cork, it had never been deem e d necessary to adopt this course. The Hon. Member had re fused to comply w i t h t h e call made by the House; be therefore guilty of contempt, and he had been accordingly com mitted.—( Hear, hear.) Sir. STURT said, there was no doubt that some difficul ty arose from the method in which the standing order was framV_ , . but at the same time, looking at the words, and also at wh at had been the practice of the House. He did- not thi nk they could have any di ffi culty at arriving at a decision. A ll the Committees of the House had been appointed by the same order, which only required that a Committee should be ar pointed at the commencement of the session ; and it could no t be clone otherwis e , f or th e S pea k er cou ld not, consistently with his duty, have put a question to the House which would have negatived its own authority, which, he contended, would be the case if, having ordered the appointment of a Committee by a sessional order, they put it in the power of the Member to make lightiof that appointment. It stated that these Committees should be appointed at the commencement of each session, and the order recommends that these selections should be re' ported to the House. He could not speak of the perfect accu racy of the phraseology employed, but such as it was they were bound to act upon it. The words made use of were-- "shall be appointed;" and he was not of opinio n _ a e , that the ter ms o f a stan di ng or d er were to b e construed with the s t r i c t ness o f a phrase of an Act Parliament, o r o f a bill o f indictment, but still in taking the se words in their co m m on sense o f construc ti on , it was impossible for the Standing Orders' Committee to act otherwise titan they had done. With such an impression he could not help voting with the Hon. Member for Oxford on this occasion, and giving his decided opposition to the motion. Mr. O'CONNELL thought that the Right Hon. Menthe! for Devonp or t h a d ent i re l y m i sapprehended the terms of hi s motion. Its object was not that Mr. O'Brien be immediate l y discharged from custody, but that he should be discharged to attend the Committee to which he had been appointed. He must say, that he trusted the decision to which the House was about to come would be more in accordance with commen souse than were the terms of the standing orders on which Mr. O'Brien was committed.—( Laughter.) What might be the meaning of the terms of the standing orders under which Mr. O'Brien was committed he could not pretend to say, but he trusted the House would not become wiseacres to interpret it —( Laughter)—but certainly it would be out of rule to inter pret it according as the Standing Orders' Committee had made it out. The wording of the standing order, as he would comprehend it, was at variance with common sense, and he thought in violation of all the rules of grammar. He thought then that on consideratio n the House would perceive that it would be impossible to con fine Mr. Smith O'Brien, when the phraseology of the standing order was so con t ra di c t ory i n i tse lf , espec i a ll y w h en they ee es n e , sidered how many p ersons were i n t ereste d i n th e result. O n this occasion, theref ore , h e t ruste d t h a t th e H ouse would lo o k upon the q ues ti on as h e v i ewe d i t, an d w i t h t h at h ope he move that Mr. Smith O'Brien be discharged. eMsar said eAhKo hoped Y t h a r o t s t e t; s a m questioni d s lou d would cries n o o f t " be Divide, d eeideddi vide. " wth out the officers of the Crown stating their opinion of it.." (" Oh ! oh !" and cries of " No. no")—for he was sure, in consequence of what had transpired before on this subjects, that if it wa s no t d e b ate d and decided on the groun ds . of common sense, and o n th e wor d s o f t h e stan di ng or der, t h a t great dissatisfaction would be felt by the country, and still greater dissatisfaction by th e M em b er s of that House on som e t°7. future occasion, when th e y th emse l v es might be placed 1. similar position to Mr. Smith O'Brien. Now, could anyth i ng he plainer than the words of the order:—" At the commenc e' ment of every session the Committee shall be appointed": (Several Hon. Members here called nut, "B e appo i n ted") —For his Honourable Friend the Member for Ken dal, had in his (Mr. Wakley's) opinion, given a correct interpretation of the words. The right interpretation of that order was as plain and obvious to his (Mr. Vs'akley's) appre• hension as anything they could place before him. New, what ad been the practise of the preceding session ? No one had asked that question. Was there a precedent for the course they had taken? He put that question to the House, and if there was not he was at a loss to know on what right they had now a gentleman, one of their Members, in custody ? It was, at the very best, a doubtful proceeding. But would they interpret the law in its most stringent sense ? Why should they not say to this gentleman, " We don't think you have been very wises and it is not pleasant that our wisdom should be discussed; we ) of will let you out, an d l et us s h a k e h an d s ?"—( L aug h ter . did not think that any d egree o f wan t o f di gn it y wo uld attach to such a course ; but, at any rate, it was the honest courste-e: o e for it was plain and o bvi ous th at a m i s t a k e h a d b e en comm it t e d, and he thought th e y oug ht no t t o ma k e ano th e r person Ile' for their own fault. • t bu t Mr. AGLIONBY said it was not his inte y n ea t da io idpff n peor t ien o ntte b di a n v : e troubled the House with any observations on this sub ject, the as the Hon. Gentleman had raised a technical objectior. to _ order, and insisted that the House had made a mistake, which opinion he could not coincide, he wished to occupy attention attention for but a few moments. He would not give hi sent to the opinion of the Hon. Gentleman, that the law offic e rs of the Crown ought to express their opinion of the order, had i t be fore the House adopted any steps respecting it ; for, lieu; been a question of mere law, it might have been necessary.; _ have received their opinion, but in this case they would not be considered other than simply Members of the House. T h e __ orders had been drawn up by the House, and therefore it Yr . a! the House who were only competent to discuss them, and w ho ought to be appealed to as to their construction, or to alter a nd_ repeal them, so that the other Members of the House were a! competent to discuss their merits as the Hon. and Lea rned e Gentlemen opposite. The question arose on the words b appointed." The Hon. Member for Derby bad add n uce t d . argu ments for K e Kendall iclh took seemedexc exception o b nc poliftsi;ainohlwi these i g ee.T h naw t ht: l ebr n eyd a Hns t t u toei,hr r n: e e.b : Hon. Member s conviction on the reason of the thing, but th that r , umen ts, and said HMoeums House Member se f l o: the words " be appointed";..se.yu tention on the part of th e n ut ' Committee of Selection, or did the construction of the words; m Co e r a k nt st a a t te le d as t t h s a n t m , h construction on the • standing House, wish to place a b r ) He for one would, with all possible f w or er c e or n k o we o re th t e e r Did any member e o in f se th rt e_: a L rsa i readiness, order, ?--(H a e g a r r e , a he t a o • such would a ,.mit of t he discharge from custody of as consequences to follow such a step.—(Hear, hear.) At present they were to discuss the matter as if the Hon. Gentleman never was in custody and never had been committed. If the ar ents of the Hen • be t g are i n,. every'proceect leg of the Committee on standing aenldr.Leemarinthed Omlribeenr, orders, and of all Coal e mittees appointed) by that body, nth; and void. If the Comnaittee of would be entirely a _ pointed, so as to have no authority, Selection were never.rr. it would be vicious, and ever every act emanatingl tte e e l on Groups of Railwa y proceeding of the Coma" Tee ys would be in like manner void. House might remedy this b a vote, orb y , .l lwhic h would sane' tion the proceedings of th ese matter Committees ; but that wa s of comparatively email obser vations to the sin le im port.words, He would confine his - maintained "be appointed " He main that the Committee had be en constitutionall y, a nd d „ strictly according to the wor d sap o p f oi t n h t e e standing orders. ecei was no t te r necessary that the Committee should be app by the House, as the Hon. Men her had construed the orde r to mean ; neither was it necessary that it should be apeoi?, l c e h in the House. It was virtually appointed by something had pr ev i ous l y b een done by the H ouse. The Hon. Dfemb er also said, th a t th e H ouse had not the appo i ntmen t o f the chairman. The moment the House named the materials for • the Committ ee , the standing orders, No. 4, came a n force, and ipso f ac t o th e appo i ntment was made.' Thi s was s-ques tion for th e H ouse to d ec id e, f or the Comm i ttee had been ar • pointed by th e H ouse , an d not b y any M em b er o f the Gover n ment, and he hoped it would not be thought that any lie u • Member had taken it in any other light. w ished The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that he only _ ake to make one remark. He could feel it was unnecessary to meth any comment on the motion before the House after the s a li.ev p ' ut of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Davenport, who it from the question in its proper light, mid made any remar ks him wholly uncalled for. She Home Lord POLLING TON said that the question for in to consider was, whether or not a mistake had been . made do the committal of the Hon. Member. They had nothingt o with the inconvenience which might arise out of rect if y ing e an error.—( Hear, hear.) If a mistake bad been mad t e o , ne l e tl i e: House give the Hon. Member the benefit of it by 1 . 1 u bad only t.O charging him from custody.—( Hear, hear.) —43 say that, having great doubts as to the construction of th e