The Sun. — London, England, 1852-03-31 00:00:00

birb Ntrition, SUN OFFICE, .Seven o' Clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes aftoi Twelve o'clock. PETITIONS. Sir EDWARD FILMER. presented a petition from Tanbridgo against the Alaynootla Mr. ROEBUCK presented a petition from Sheffield in favour of legalising industrial partnerships. Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from Manches ter against calling out the militia ; also a petition from Perrimouth against taxes on knowledge ; also several petitions for the repeal of the malt tax. Mr. REYNOLDS presented petitions from Dublin and other places in Ireland, in favour of Mr. S. Craw ford's Tenant Right Bill; also two petitions from Westmeath and Derry for the repeal of the Ecclesias tical Titles Act. Mr. CORBALLY presented a petition from Meath in favour of Mr. S. Crawford's motion. Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from the Chamber o f C o mmerce, at Dundee, against the re-imposition of the c orn-laws. Mr. ROCHE presented a petition from Skibbereen, in favour of Mr. S. Crawford's motion ; also several petitions to the same effect, from other parts of Ireland. Mr. MONSELL presented a petition for the repeal of the Ecclesiastical Titles Act. Mr. H. WILLYAMS presented a petition from Truro, against calling ou t t h e m ili t i a. Sir EMERSON TENNENT presented a petition from Lisburn in favour of Mr. Sharman Crawford's motion. Mr. SADLEIR presented several petitions from Ire land to the same effect; also a petition for the repeal of the Ecclesiastical Titles Act. Mr. SCULLY presented a petition from Tipperary, also for the repeal of the Ecclesiastical Titles Act; also several petitions in favour of Mr. S. Crawford's Bill. Lord EBRINGTON presented a petition from the Sanitary Association, praying for the preparation of plans for the supply of water to the metropolis. Mr. HENRY presented a petition from Manchester for the legalization of industrial societies. Mr. COWAN presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce at Edinburgh, for the repeal of the duty on paper; also several petitions from places in Scotland, praying for the repeal of the grant to Msynooth. Mr. SLANEY presented a petition from Galashiels, pray ing for the legalization of industrial partnerships. TAXES ON KNOWLEGDE. Mr. REYNOLDS said the Hon. Member for Man chester (Mr. M. Gibson) had a notice on the paper for Tuesday, the 6th of April, with reference to the repeal o f the duty on paper and on knowledge, and he wished to know whether he would have any objection to post pone it until after Easter ? The reason he asked the question was that himself and ceveral other Irish Members who took an interest in the question would not be present on that occasion: and they would take it as a favour if ho would adjourn his motion. Mr. M. GIBSON said he should be very unwise to loose the support of his Hen. Friend and other Irish Members, who must be unavoidably absent on Tuesday next. Ile would, therefore, assent to the postponement of his motion until after Easter, but he would take the first opportunity of balloting for an early day after Easter. HOME-MADE SPIRITS. Mr. REYNOLDS gave notice that to-morrow he would ask the Noble Lard the Chief Secretary for Ire land whether it was hie intention in the present session to ask permission to introduce a Bill to place the manu facturers of home-made spirits on an equal footing with the importers of foreign and colonial spirits.—(Hear.) TENANT-RIGHT (IRELAND) BILL, Mr. REYNOLDS presented a great number of peti tions from various parts of Ireland in favour of tenant right in that country. He then moved the second reading of the Bill, and said that in doing so he felt a deep and weighty responsibility rested upon him, for he was not bringing forward a puppet of his own, nor standing there es the organ of any scot or party, but as the messenger of a nation. He asked their assent to the principle of the Bill because it had received the sanction of the nation. The number of petitions presented from various parts of Ireland in favour of the measure justified him in making that assertion. He was in the remarkable position of not having a single petition presented against the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) Such a circumstance was nearly unparalleled on a question of such vital import unes to a country. The preamble of the Bill recited that it was the practice in Ireland to let lands to teeants without the necessary buildings, and that in the event of their quitting, they could not obtain any allowance for the improvements they might hare effected on the land. This was proved to be the case by all the evidence adduced to the House on the subject of tenant right in Ireland. If a tenant made any improvements in his land he bad no alternative but to rely upon the honour of the landlord for compensation; for there was no law in Ireland to secure to him the value of the capi tal and labour he had expended. Now he proposed to remedy this anornaly.—(Hear, hear.) Land was the chief means of existence to the Irish population, and it was necessary that some fair protection should be given to the poor occupiers for the outlay of their labour and capital. The priecip!e he proposed with the view of attaining that object he believed would be gene rally acceptabl e for it w"s that improving tenants ebonld have a fair and full compensation awarded to them, having regard to the custom of the particular dis trict in which the land was situated. In case of a difference ail arbitrator was to settle the terms be tween the landlord and tenant. The provisions of the Bill were entirely consistent with the civil law of the laud. The Bill recognised putting the onus upon the tenant of proving the custom which existed and the value of the tenant's goodwill. He proposed to do nothing more than assimilate the law of Ireland, in regard to tenant right, to that of England. In some counties in England the tenant was required to prove the local usages and customs, and the value under them. He would fairly state to the House that the object of his Bill was to give the tenant a legel property in the im provement which be effected upon his farm, and if the Bill did not accomplish that ho had no hesitation in declaring that it would be worthless. The other day, the Noble Lord the Secretary fee. Ireland, at his election fur Coieraiue, made a speech, in which he acknowledged the justness of that principle, and he now called upon the Noble Lord to support his own views, and vote fer the second reading of this Bill. The Noble Lord distinctly stated that the object of the present Government ought to be to hold out to the te nant farmers some ieducenasnt to improve the land; and es that was the main purer se of the Bill he thought the Noble Lord was bound to take it up. If, however, he would consent to tee second reading of the Bill, ho should he quite ready to postpone its future stages until such time as Government should have decided whether they would adopt it, or introduce some measure of their owo, as they had prompted to de.—(Hear.) The tribu nal wnitie the Bill neitild establish for the settlement of disputes beta fen landlord and tenant, when they could not attiutted by amicable arbitration, was of a simple and hit xpensive cearacter. le eases where the compen %mien claimed was under tool., he proposed that the dis- Vito should be referred to the revising barrister of the 7ba 2 1, ty, 515,1 in all other caeca the reference should I t h the i n need, e l assize, wh, decisions should at d ' e " be final and no objection to hear.)Zillete thought there could bit to that provision, nor indeed could there be a n y o bj ect i on urge d aga i nst ! i h : ? ._? ex. `' Cl ause,. which made p rov i s i on f or t h e adjust s., of contracts entered into previous to the repeal of the, corn-lawe_ (hear, hear.) The 13th and 14th altered " 11 ' 433 (lid rc n originally- form part of the Bill, b u t th e cium "t stances of Ireland had rendered their in troduction necessary. Th e first of these clauses would prohibit evictions for •a limited time of tenants who were in arrear of rent, while the other clause would make provision for the pre vention of that isufferieg which had recently attended the eviction system, by securing the tenant some relief or some alternative in the place of the misery and starvation which o therwise w ou ld i nev i ta b ly overtake him.—(flear, hear.) He, however, did not urge these claims upon the attention of matter of right due to the tenant , but as House as a ti a law rendered necessary by the dictates of humanity, and im peratively called for to avert that scourge of extermination which was now raging amongst that portion of the Irish tenantry who wererthea least able to prot e ct th e mselves from wrong or opnres. sien.--(Hear, hear.) Let the House rememberi whole nation was inter e sted in the success of this that tee ,. sure, and in th e name o f j us ti ce a nd humanity, and as they valued the prosperity of Ireland, be implored the House to allow this Bill to go to a second reading.— be (Hear, hear.) Th e l an dl ord ' s r i g h t cou ld never _ safe, so long as th ose o f t h e tenant were ne glected or despised by the law ; and, deeply interested in th e ma i ntenance of his a landlord deeply own rights, he wished the House to do tardy justice to the tenant in passing this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) It was ridiculous to tell him that this Bill would confiscate the property of the landlord, because it, could not possibly do any such thing.—(Hear, hear.) It would, however, take care that while the improvements iu the land were secured to ties halo/el. the tenant should be secured his share through the medium of a money value. Apologising to the House for having trespassed so long upon its time and attention, he begged leave to move the second reading of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. NAPIER could assure the Hon. Member for Reendele, arid the House, that there was no subject more worthy of the consideration of Parliament than this , —(Hear, hoar.) It was of the utmost importance that the cultivators of the soil in Ireland should be en couraged to the fullest possible extent, but at the same time he hoped the question as it now stood would be aLetteetel clearly and dispassionately, and without any reference to party feelings or party motives.—(Hear, hear.) lie allowed that the Hen. Member for Rochdale was entitled to ,great credit for the manner in which he had pe rsevered with this Bill, and ha could aseure him and the House that for years this very suoject of tenant rieht had commanded his constant attention.—(Hear, h ' ear.) Every :pare mo ment he could find had been devoted to a it, and nothing . gave him ore, when he was called into ethee, than tee presp-an whi c h it opened up to him of being one day able to live hit ItCtours a practical shape. --(hear, hear.) .h bad, therefore, no hesitation in telling the House that he hoped u at no distant period to be able to Idy upon t he " 41 " of the House a Bill which should a-).tiafac:orily reform the law of landlord and tenant in Irelane, and secure to each party his just and equitable rights.—(lielr, hear ) Re had always been the t enant for unexhausted an advocate for compete-sitting improvements. ihe tenant , had nothing but his labour sal small wits! :0 'FOY t 9 anti as he sat ed so he ought to reap, and if when he left his farm there was any portion of his labour unrealised, he was en titled to demand some money compensation at the hands of his landlord.—(Hear, hear.) Nothing was more cal culated to improve the social condition of Ireland than the settlement of this question, and he was rejoiced to be able to tell the House that in his attempt to obtain a solution of this momentous question he should be as sisted by two gentlemen who bad the honour of serving on the Devon Commission.—(Hear, hear.) Nothing, however, could produce more evil than raising hopes which never could be realized; and he trusted, and he therefore begged to impress upon the House, that what the present Government intended to do in this matter would be based upon the report of the Devon Commission. The measure which be hoped to have the honour of in troducing would be made as simple as possibre, or it would be better to leave the matter alone, as it would only serve to create unnecessary agitation if the measure was of a complicated and cumbersome character, and he requested that the House, in its ; legislation upon Ibis very difficult subject, would take care to render its enactments as simple and as free from complication and restriction as possible.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the Bill immediately under discussion, the principle was no doubt good, indeed, no one could dispute that ; but still its provisions were not sufficient to amend, simplify, and consoli date the landlord and tenant code of Ireland. The Bill in its provisions was not sufficiently simple or general in its scope, and that was the great objection which he entertained to its details.—(Hear, hear.) Whenever these objects could be carried out by agreement so much the better, for though legislation could do much, it could not by itself make a good land lord.—(Hear, hear.) But in effecting this there were some difficulties, one of the principal of which was the limitation of property for family purposes. In such cases it was most important that they should be regulated in such a beneficial mannner as not to interfere with the cultivation of the soil. It was more consistent, however, with the commercial system of the country and the temper of the times to act as far as possible on a system of contracts. One of his principal objections to this Bill was that it was a dealing with the existing state of things, for the purpose of perpetuating by Act of Parliament the custom—after all - not a legal one—which was not calculated to work any important improvement. If they could get a system arranged by which the tenant would receive a compensation for unexhausted improvements, it would very much tend to increase the prosperity of Ireland. The course to be taken was this, to secure to each tenant such a period of enjoyment of the improved soil so as to enable him fairly to reap the fruits of every improve ment which he might have made ; and if it were neces sary, from any reason, to interrupt the possession, that, at the expiration of his possession, calculations should be made, and he should still be able to reap the benefit of his improvements.—(Hear, hear.) That in his opinion was the plain justice of the case— (ilear)—a fair principle against which no righteous tenant or landlord could consistently object.—(Hear, hear.) But the present Bill did not go to effect this; the propositions which it contained were such as to startle men from a right view of the case. It in terfered with existing contracts, and that, in his opinion, Parliament ought not to do. It was not by the violation of the rights of property that Ireland was to be benefited, nor by interfering with the fixed principles of property, but by the en couragement of industry, by inviting the application of capital, and by promoting the spread of agricultural knowledge.—(Hear, hear.) The Hen. Gentleman then proceeded to analyse and animadvert on certain state ments which had been put forth by the Tenant Right League, which he showed to be utterly without foundation. He was perfectly willing to invite full and fair discussion on this important subject, but he thought it would be allowed that to put forth statements of this nature would only have the effect of rcu,ing an un founded spirit of bitternese, and retard the ultimate settle ment of this great question.—(Hear.) He objected to the section of the Bill which related to the power of dispossession, because he thought it confounded good and bad landlords together, and mixed them all up in one universal measure of com pulsion. Whatever measure might be adopted on this subject ought to be based on the groat principles of property, which all were equally interested in maintain ing, and which were the right of the poor as well as of the rich. They were about Bow to a certain extent to provide for the wants of the futere, and they ought to do that in a spirit of justice and fairness to all parties. How was it likely that they would encou rage persons from this country to lend money in Ire land, for the purpose of cultivating the soil, if there was to be a continual change of legislation on this sub ject? In his opinion the fixed principles of pro perty must be the same in every part of the United Kingdom, although he did not deny that there might be certain special cases in the circumstances of Ireland which would require special arrangements. Ho quite agreed with the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that they ought to provide just compensation to the tenant in all cases of unexhausted improvement, and that when a tenant did make improvements ho should have a full and fair enjoyment of them, but to effect this benefit for the occupier of the land he was not ready to go out of the fixed limits of the rights of property. They had now an opportunity to effect for Ireland a great and permanent good, and he believed that all Hon. Members were sincerely actuated by that desire; but the subject was a difficult one, and though he believed that with the assistance and co-operation of his friends he had arrived at a safe and satisfactory conclusion on the subject, he was placed at the present moment in a very peculiar position. At the beginning of the session, and after ascertaining the intention of the then Govern ment not to propose any legislation on the subject, he had prepared the outline of the measure which he in tended to lay on the table of the House, and as an in dependent Member of the House to ask their co-opera tion in passing it into a law. Being now, however, a member of the Government, he thought that any mea sure which was introduced ought to be under the responsibility of the Government. It was but right that the Government should have an opportunity of consi dering such a measure, and ho could assure the House that the measure which ho had prepared should be sub mitted to the Government at the earliest period. He had shadowed forth the principal points of this measure, and talked with his colleagues on the subject, though he had not yet submitted his plan to them in a formal way. The first was a Bill by which no less than sixty Acts of Parliament relating to the subject of landlord and tenant would be consolidated.—(Hear.) Secondly, there would be a complete investigation of all the remedies of landlord and tenant on both sides, and the third would be a measure having regard to those cases in which no agreement had been come to between landlord and.tenant; for though it would be better in all instances to have an agreement concluded sponta neously, yet where such was not the case, it was but right that the law should step in, and say what would be a fair and reasonable arrangement. At present he had consolidated and amended no less than 104 statutes. He should be able to reduce the complicated law of landlord and tenant to three statutes. —(Hear, hear ) The first would be for the con solidation of existing laws ; the second would provide for a ready means of investigaion and appesl, for the purpose of defining agreements, and the third would give compensation for improvement where no agreement existed. These were the great outlines of tno measure, which, if passed, he believed would go as far as legislation could go to benefit the tenantry of Iceland. There was no exertion, no in dustry, no means of information which he would not , Use diligently, and without any unnecessary (1,4, in order to bring this question to a complete and satisfactory conclusion. In regard to agrarian dis turbances in Ireland, tho Learned Gentleman stated . - there was no power ho could wield in his office which he would not wield fearlessly, to put down all criminal confederacy with a high hand and a strong arm.—(Hear.) He concluded by expressing a hope that, with the aid of the measures he proposed, ar.d the blessing of God, the condition of Ireland might be greatly improved, and s better feeling promoted between all classes of the people.—(Cheers.) Mr. E. B. ROCHE agreed in saying that, in the name of justice, mercy, and fAir play, let the law be the terror of evil- doers; bat all the evil; of Ireland were not confined to the Ribbon lodges. The Learned Gentleman said they could not make a good landlord by an Act of Parliament, but they might prevent a bad landlord from being mischievous by it.—(llear, bear.) Though ho listened with great attention and pleasure to the first part of the Learned Gentleman's speech, he was sadly disappointed at its conclusion, for if ho ever heard good and sound reasons alleged for going into Committee upon a Bill, they were those mentioned by the Learned Gentleman.—():sear, hear.) In the present unhappy state of Ireland it was of the utmost importance that the principles enunciated by the Secretary for Ireland (Lord _ Naas) at C o l era i ne, repeate d b y the Learned ontiernan in his speech, and con t a i ne d i n t h e Bill 1 f a Mr. Sharman,,a Crawford, should be embraced in an Act o f , of the populationue all the Pa rliament,—(Elear, hear.) The main spring of state ltiJreland was to be traced to the unsatis dfaicvitdo7d itito three land question. These evils might be —first, the frightful decrease r t e h c s a l e e a c s o ge n s dly, the agrarian disturbance, out of whieh insecurity for life and pro )", the vast the ciecrbeeasf3d:/ i. 4 ten tu t s accumulation of local taxa tion. y , ! ;, a a l e e d t g h r i e rd a t l dimi nution in the numbe r o of emigration and the dimi people did houses in Ireland clearly proved crimes, l ied that the n regard to agrarian of atren th ' and shoot labourers, not respect life, for why ow tuts not or labourers shoot tenants? agrarian 9gh he denounced the perpetrators of ~ crime as rank lle was One 'who be base murderers, he thought inst . e r a n d o-- law they ought to try and remedy th e „ ils g ,enl.eg the welch gave rise to these proceedings. lieved that the increase of local tax at i on never be stopped unless the Legislature rd u c t u would never fered. Tenant farmers were the only cla ss people in Ireland who had capital to lay out on improve ments, though he admitted they did not Possess it in sufficient abundauce. There was, however , an immen se amount of property in the eaviuge banks; but this would never be applied to land except some security were gi ven to tenants for the oalay of the capital. No measure would, therefore, be satisfactory which did not give ample compensation for all improvements on land. The Government took no objection to the principle of the Bill, but only to some of the details, and if thte - refus ed to go into Committee upo n it, th e p eo ple of Ireland would say that all their decl ara ti ons an d processions as to the settlement of the gees:ion were mere sham. Lord CASTLEREAGH said it appeared to him that if any . difficulty more than another had arisen on that side of the liouse, it was that the Government had not solved the dilemma in which the country was placed in reference to this question by positively bringing in a 13i11 at once on the subject.—(flear.) A popular journal had termed the Bill of the Hon. Member an annual craze for the purpose of obtaining a false popularity, and not with the view of benefiting the tenant fatruere, but it was his earnest conviction that the calamities of Ire land were mainly to be attributed to the unsettled state of the question. It was the duty of the Government to allow the Bill to go into Committee unless they pro posed to do more than simply delay the question, and cast it into the dim future. He would not bind himself to the details of the measure, because he thought some parts of it were objectionable. He:scorned the idea of cozening the tenant farmers by false promises, and of obtaining from them a support which he did not deserve. It was was not his wish to treat the question as a tenant's one simply for the settlement of it, he thought it was neces sary for the good of the landlord as well as the tenant.— (Hear.) There was now a ray of sunshine and hope for Ireland which he had not seen for a length of time; and he trusted that the Members around him who were anxious to settle the question would not adopt any ex treme views upon it, nor be too severe in finding fault, or criticising the measure which the Government pro posed to bring in when it came before them. At present, however, be earnestly asked all parties in the House to allow the Bill to go into Committee, so that the session might not end without something being done for Ireland. He owed it as a duty to his constituents to vote for the second reading. Mr. GREENE urged upon the House the necessity of having the Government Bill laid upon the table and referred to the consideration of a Select Committee. Mr. V. SCULLY could; bear testimony to the im portance which the people of Ireland attached to this question, and the disappointment which they would feel if this Bill was defeated. The county of Cork stood in the same relation to Ireland that Yorkshire did towards England, and he knew for a fact that from Coleraine down to the city of Cork the people were in favour of the Bill. No doubt there were defects in its details, but he believed they were all agreed as to its principle, and ho therefore insisted that the Bill ought to be read a second time, and its clauses left for discusssion and amendment. He was at a loss to understand, from the speech of the Attorney-General for Ireland, whether Government supported or opposed the second reading of the,Bill, and he hoped the Member who addressed them from the Ministerieljnench would tell the House distinctly what course !they intended to pursue with regard to the Bill itself At all events, whether they supported it or not, ho insisted that the promised Bill of the Go vernment ought to be introduced at once or immediately after Easter. A judicial move might deprive the House of the services of the Learned Attorney-General, and then what would become of the pledges and declarations with regard to his proposed Bill. Why the Government would treat them as mere moonshine; and again he urged the House to press for the immediate production of the Bill. He admitted the difficulty of legislation upon this subject, but it was by no means im practicable or impossible, and it was therefore the duty of the House to attempt it if the Government was not disposed to do so.—(Hear, hear.) As ha understood this Bill its principle was plain and simple • it provided indeed for no more and no less than this, that when a tenant wished to terminate his tenancy on account of the extravagance of the rent which he paid, his landlord should compensate him for the improvements he had made in the land, or continue his tenancy at an equalized rent.—(Hear.) That was what the Bill provided, and seeing much of the distress and crime which prevailed in Ireland was attributable to there being no law in existence of this nature, he was at a loss to understand how the House could refuse to read the Bill a second time.—(Hear, hear.) Sir -EMERSON TENNENT bore his willing testi mony to the perseverance and ability with which the Hon. Member for Rochdale had from time to time introduced this subject to the House, and he regretted that his efforts would have to be followed up by a Bill of other parties.—(Hear, hear.) He at once admitted that the principle of compensating the meritorious te nant was sound and just, but the Bill, in attempting to put that principle in operation, encumbered it with so many novel and cumbersome provisions that he wus bound to oppose it passing into . a law.—(Bear, hear.) The tenant right of Ulster was believed, aud he concurred in the belief, to be based upon equity and justice, but those who enjoyed it were apprehensive that if it was extended to certain parts of Ireland that could not sympathise with it the system would be eventually„cripplecl, if not abolished.—(Hear.) The fact was this right or custom could not be made the subject of a law, and in attempting to legislate upon it he was afraid, if they did not proceed with ex treme caution, they would render the existing state in Ireland more disagreeably complicated than it had ever been.—(Hear, bear.) For instance, this Bill at tempted to solve in a few words a problem that bad oc cupied years in its discussion, and upon which volume upon volume had been written, namely, it defined the meaning of the term of " a fair rent." It must have required some courage to induce the Hon. Proposer of the Bill to venture upon that definition, and although he admitted the ingenuity of the definition he was bound to confess that it was so indefinite that it would of itself render the Bill inoperative, supposing it was carried.—(Haar, hear.) It would, however, be impossible to work such a Bill without some such definition, and he confessed that he was not prepared to propose a better than the one contained in this Bill ; but still this defi nition (was extremely uncertain, being liable to various constructions, and again he repeated that as the success of a Bill of this nature must depend upon the simplicity of its provisions, it was useless to pass a Bill the very mainspring of which must inevitably give rise to endless discussions and disputes.--(Hear, hear.) Looking, therefore, at these defects, he did not think it would b© prudent to pass the Bill, because it would disturb the stability of landed property, if it did not in fact altogether destroy its value; and if the House wished to see the land maintain its position in the estimation of investors, it would :unhesitatingly with hold its sanction to this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Viscount the Member for the county of Down had taunted the Government with a want of courage to meet the question with a direct negative. Viscount CASTLEREAGH did no such thing— what he said was this, that in the absence of the Go vernment Bill the House had a perfect right to adopt its own.—(Hear, hear.) Sir EMERSON TENNENT repeated that the Noble Viscount threw out a taunt. Viscount CASTLEREAGH rose to order. An Hon. Member had no right to make an accusation against him when he had disclaimed the imputation which it conveyed. Sir EMERSON TENNENT had put a natural con struction upon the language of tho Noble Viscount, but as the Noble Viscount disclaimed the meaning which they conveyed, why, of course, there was an end of the matter.—(Hear.) But he was authorised to state that the Government measures were to be introduced with as little delay as possible, and, in conclusion, hs begged leave to move that the Bill be read a second time this day six months.—(Hear.) Mr. KEOGH said that had it not been for the speech which they had just heard ho should not have felt it necessary to address the House. He had heard with great pleasure the conciliatory speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General for Ireland, but the speech of the Honourable Gentleman had been marked with so much asperity that ho could not help throwing back the insinuation that on that side of the House there was any desire to treat the subject in any but a conciliatory tone. The speech of the Hon. Gentleman had been directed en tirely against the details, :and not as it ought to have been, against the principle, and he could not help sus pecting that the speech was intended really for the mo tion of going into Committee. The laws of England and Ireland were very different; in England landlords were accustomed to let their farms just as they would furnished house!, while in Ireland tenants were thrown on a naked soil, and everything which they could get out of the soil by their own industry was extracted from them in the shape of rent, and no compensation whatever provided. He appealed to this country whe ther in a time of expected invasion they would not put a stop to a system which in a space of ten years had diminished the population of a fertile island by more than two millions. GRATTAN was astonished at what had taken place. He thought it was unknown in the pro ceedings of Parliaments that the principal law ;officer of Ireland should come forward and approve of the principle, and another subordinate Member get .up a short time after and find fault with that principle. All that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Attorney• General had said had been ruined by his friends, and it was a great pity that there had not been some one on the Treasury bench to keep down the lion. Member for Lisburn. Mr. B. OSBORNE regretted that a debate which had commenced so auspiciously should, in some way or other, he knew not why, have turned all at once into a spirit of bitterness. As a friend to Ireland and :her in terests he should vote for the second reading of the Bill. He was not, however, so steeped in party prejudice as to resume his seat without expressing his admiration of the wise and sincere statement of the Right :Hon. :Gen tleman the Attorney-General for Ireland, and if the subject were taken up in the same spirit by the other Members of the Government, he did not despair of seeing the question of tenant-right effectuatually settled. If he could hear from that Right Hon. Gentleman an assurance that a Government Bill would be laid on the table of the House at as -- early a period as possible, het should then consider it better not to press for a division on the present occosion; if not, however, he should certainly vote for the second reading of the Bill now before the House. Mr. WHITESIDE said that with all due deference to the Hon. Gentleman, ho was called on now to give his vote on the merits of the Bill before the House. He (Mr. Whiteside) quite agreed that some measure on the subject was necessary, a measure which ought to be:founded upon a just appreciation of the rights of property. The present Bill, however, had no such foundation, but was, in fact, completely opposed in almost euery one : of its clauses to the fixed principle of the rights of property.—(Hear.) The ground of his objection to the Bill was, not that he was unwilling to do what was fair and equi t able t o Ireland, but because it was an i ncom p re h ens ibl e an d i mpract i ca bl e measure, unjust to la n dl o rd an d un j us t t o tenants . It was the e arnes t o bj ect o f t h e G overnment to introduce not a fli msey Bill, but to pass as soon as po ss ibl e a l aw on the subject, su c h as wou ld b e b ene fi c i a l to t h e country and creditabl e to the House. ?dr. BUT LER moved the adjournment of the debate.he l' • EOGI-T1 seconded the adjournment. division raoe • .tion was,however, negatived without a Mr. BATESON (who was received with loud cries of " Divide, which which rendered him for some time inaudible) was u nderstood to say the r was not wheth er Compensation. question should be g i ve n to tena n t s for t h e tenant might effect bl and improvements which that l t and on which all were agree d —but whethe r or not compensation should be fixed by one - sided arbitration! was addressing the House when the hour 221 ottecmlocakn anived, and the Speaker declared the Souse adintned. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 31, 1852. FRANCE. THE FRENCH CHAMBERS. The following is the opening speech delivered by M. Billault : " Messieurs and dear Colleagues,--Our presence in this place marks a new era for us and for the country. Saved from most terrible eventualities by a hand whose calm energy is slow in thought (mediter lentcment) and rapid in action, France looks upon her, chief with a con fidence which is unprecedented in history. " By a vote whose astonishing (eclatant) numbers stand unparalleled, she has asked at his hands strong and protective institutions, which will restore her security and her greatness. "Placed under the invocation of the great principles of 1789, fortified by that Governmental spirit which marked the Consulate, these institutions have received an evident consecration by the scrutin by which we are eletred—ours is the duty to infuse into them practical life. That is the commencement of our mission; and that mission, whatever may be said of it, is certainly not altogether without grandeur and authority. " We shall not, indeed, see the Legislature surrounded by parties, which incessantly hold the Ministry in check, compelling it to concentrate all its forces upon its own preservation and defence, and by so doing not un frequently enervating the power of the State. When ever, as Ministers or Deputies, we may employ these Parliamentary tactics, it is to business now that we shall be obliged to consecrate them—serious and practical business. This is our part in the Constitution. It consists in voting the taxes, the discussion of the budget and of the laws. It implies not merely the right of deliberating freely and publicly, of adopting or re jecting, but also that of amendment, no longer, un doubtedly, with the same facility of improvisation, against which previous Assemblies vainly endeavoured to defend themselves, but with a degree of maturity which can only prove fatal to utopian projects. " In such functions there is, believe me, a great and real power, if we use it, as lam certain we shall, seri ously, without reservation, with loyal fidelity to the electoral sentiments which have sent us here. This power will constitute in our new Government one of those active forces which are the most usefully effi cacious. " It is in order to proceed with you on this patriotic path that the Chief of the State has called me to the honour of presiding over you. Grant me, my dear col leagues, as much good-will as I offer you devotion, and, being all united in the holy love of our country, let us give to the world no longer the spectacle of an assembly of impassioned men, continually agitated, but of a veri table Assembly of Legislation, calmly and gravely as the law itself enacting statutes upon the great interests which are submitted to us." At the conclusion of the sitting the President an nounced that there would be held a private sitting, to decide whether the Members should be required to wear the uniform on the occasion of public sittings. The following is the collective letter addressed by General Cavaignac, M. Carnot, and M. Henon, to the President of the Legislative Corps : " M. le President,—The electors of Paris and Lyons sought us in our retreat, or in our exile. We thank them for having thought that cur names would serve as a protest against the destruction of public liberties and the rigours of despotism. " But: we do not admit that they meant to send us to sit in a legislative body whose powers do not extend to the point of repairing the violation of rights. We repudiate the immoral doctrine of silence, or of mental reservation ; and we refuse to take the oath required on admission to the Legislative Corps. We pray you, M. to President, to be so good as to communicate to the Assembly this declaration. (Signed) " Paris, March 29, 1852." " CAVAIGNAC. " CARNOT. " HENON. CHANCERY.--(THIS DAY.) (Before the LORD CHANCELLOR.) His Lordship this morning proceeded with the part heard appeal of Cutts v. Salmon. (Before the LORDS JUSTICES.) NEWALL V. WILSON. This case, which was an appeal from an order of the Master of the Bolls refusing an injunction, asked by the plaintiff, to restrain the defendant from infringing the right of the plaintiff to manufacture rope of a certain construc tion, was resumed this morning. Sir Alexander Cockburn was heard this morning for the defendant; and Mr. Selwyn was following, en the same side, when our report left. VICE-CHANCERY-(THIS DAY.) (Before Vice-Chancellor TURNER ) EVANS V. NORFOLK ESTUARY. This case, which was commenced on Monday, as reported n our columns of yesterday, was continued this morning. ( Before Vice-Chancellor PARKER ) His Honour was this morning occupied with short causes and claims. Vice-Chancellor Kindersley did not sit this morning. present House of Commons, to persevere with any measures of legislation except those which were of instant urgency. Ho will not, I think, deny that he also stated that which, of course, produced a great effect, and rendered his explanation more satisfac tory—that he would not pledge himself to dissolve Par liament on any definite or particular day—that he would not pledge himsslf to dissolve in April, May, or June— The Earl of DERBY —I never mentioned those months. Tho Duke of NEWCASTLE—I must then appeal to the recollection of your Lordships—for my recollection on the point is distinct. If the Noble Est.! says that he made such a statement without intending it, I am ready to admit it; but from my perfect reliance on my own recollection I must say that the Noble Earl has for go:t4.ll his own statement; for I aver that ho distinctly said that he did not pledge himself to the time of the dis solution, and that he would not say whether it was to take place in the month of April, May, or June. The Earl of DERBY—The Noble Duke has evi den!ly misunderstood what fell from me on a former oc casion. I slid that I would not pledge myself to specify the day on which I would advise her Majesty to dissolve Parliament, or the month in which a general election should take place. I said that I thought that it was ex pedient for the public advantage that the autumn should not pass over without a new Parliament having an op portunity of discussing certain questions of deep general interest; and I added, almost in the same words which I repeated to-day, that I thought it was expedient that those questions should be disposed of before the ordi nary time of assembling Parliament for the session of 1853. That statement I repeat again. Beyond that I have not bound myself, nor will I be induced, to go. Here the conversation dropped. The Personal Estates of Intestates Bill passed through Committee. The Proclamation for Assembling Parliament Bill was read a third time and passed. ESTATES OF LUNATICS. Lord LYNDHURST said the object he had in view, in moving for the returns contained in the paper which he had laid on the table, was to lay the foundation for ex tending the provisions of the Act of Parliament passed in the year 1842, for administering the estates of lunatics found lunatics by commission. In order that the subject might be distinctly understood, he begged to call their Lord ships' attention in a few words to the state of that depart ment of the administration of justice in lunatic cases pre viously to the passing of the Act. The commission was directed to three persons to hold the commission near the place where the lunatic resided. As thesis places were often remote andjobscure, it followed almost as:a matter of course that the commission was authorised to make inquiries under the authority of the great seal, wherein they were informed of the nature of the duties they had to discharge. The con sequence was that the returns were frequently not made, on account of irregularity, or from being defective. He had seen a list of those defective returns, extending over a period of ten years, and they amounted to no less than 60. He did not mean to say that in all these returns the commission was quashed, but a good deal of unnecessary expense was incurred. In many instances, however, the decisions were quashed, and the consequence was that a new inquiry was carried on before a new jury, at the expense of the estate of the lunatic. In addition to that the commissioners were paid, not by salary, but by fees. Each commissioner received 51. per day during the discharge of his duties, besides other incidental fees. When he mentioned Si. per clay, that ap plied to the country, but in London the commissioners re ceived double that sum. In the country the commissioners received every day while discharging their duty a sum of about 201., and in London about 401. per day. Their Lord ships would be surprised to hear that in Lord Portsmouth's lunacy the fees amounted to 1,0701. In the case of Mr. De vonport the fees amounted to 500/, and it was by no means unusual for the fees to amount to many hundred pounds. Besides the circumstance of the commissioners being paid by fees, the jurors also were paid at the rate of one guinua per day; the solicitors were also remunerated in proportion to their labours; and their Lordships might come to the con elusion that none of the parties were interested in shortening the inquiry or bringing it to a speedy termination. At an early period, when abuses were more prevalent, the parties assembled at a tavern or inn, and partook each day of a din ner at the expense of the estate of the lunatic. " sic to sapiens finire memento Tristitiam vitwque labores Molli, Planes, mero." —(Laughter.) The quotation had a peculiar application, the entertainment being at the expense of the lunatic.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) B e f ore th e ver di c t was returne d the whole of the proceedings were referred to the Master in Chancery, where all the expense and delay incident to that ancient, much-revered, but now worn-out and condemned establishment was incurred. By the Act which, in 1842, he (Lord Lyndhurst) had introduced, the whole business was transferred to three commissioners, who were named in the Act. They were gentlemen of great experience, and when the commission was issued, one proceeded to the place where the lunatic resided and summoned a jury. After the verdict was found, the proceedings were of this nature— the commissioner, being on the spot, and surrounded by the relatives and friends of the lunatic, he examined them viva core, and obtained all the materials necessary for the administration of the affairs of the estate. When he in troduced his Bill, it was opposed by his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Cottenham) on one ground—that it was impossible that all that load of busines could be con ducted by three commissioners. He (Lord Lyndhurst) ventured to differ from him, and the result showed that he had formed a correct estimate of the powers of the commissioners to transact the business. Every commission was executed a few days after it was issued, and there never was any arrear. During the first year after the appointment of the commission there was an arrear arising out of the immense accumulation of business which had been transferred to them from the Masters in Chancery; but at the expiration of the first year the whole of that arrear was got rid of, and since then there had been no arrear. He would now state what alterations and extensions of the Act he meant to propose. Ile had intended to have made these alterations at an early period —as soon as he bad had suffi cient experience of the working of the Bill; but he had re signed the Great Seal before he could accomplish that, and the matter had remained stationary since then. It was ne cessary that he should call their attention to that point. He proposed that all applications should be made in the first in stance to the Lord Chancellor, and he mentioned the Lord Chancellor, not in his capacity as such, but as having a war rant under the sign manual giving him jurisdiction in all these matters. The commissioner made his report on the petition ; after this the order was made. This was a course of proceed ing attended with great expense. In a recent case, where an estate of 501. was in question, it cost from 60/. to 70/. to make an application and obtain permission to grant a lease. It was the same when repairs were in question ; nothing could be done without the consent of the Lord Chancellor, and permission to effect repairs of some 301. cost upwards of 601. for application. What he recommended was, that, as in the Winding-up Acts and in the Irish Chancery Act lately passed, this circuitous course should he put an end to; and he proposed, accordingly, to make these applications, not to the Lord Chancellor, but to the officer known as the master of the lunatics, and that the order of this officer should be binding, unless an appeal was made against it within seven or ten days. This would cause an enormous saving ; and he, therefore, hoped his .Noble and Learned Friend would accede to the proposition. There was another point most material as connected with the administration of the estates of lunatics. He considered that the commission in many instances was not necessary to be issued at all. In cases of bankruptcy the commission was dispensed with, and the fiat of the Lord Chancellor substituted in its stead. This prece dent, he proposed, should be adopted in these instances, for the purpose of saving expense to the estate. But an expense much more inconvenient was that of the grant for the cus tody of the personal estate of a lunatic. This passed under the Great Seal, and usually cost 251. What he proposed was, that the order under which the Great Seal was affixed should be held the same as affixing the Great Seal itself, and have the same effect. This would be a consider able saving of money. He came next to inquiries into sound. ness or unsoundness of mind under a commission of lunacy. These inquiries sometimes ran to very great lengths, aris ing from the conflict of evidence. The course of proceed ing on them was the most simple imaginable. The counsel for the commission opened the case as fur the Crown, and called witnesses in its support ; the counsel for the lunatic answered that statement, and called witnesses also to rebut the case. It was the same as a trial at the assizes. The cost attending these inquiries arose from the number of wit nesses, especially the medical witnesses, on both sides. Thi s could not, howeve r , b e i n t er f ere d with without producing great injustice—he spoke of cases fairly conducted, of course. But what might be interfered with was the circumstance by which the inquiry was not confined to one particular day, but extended backward over a very considerable period. It always appeared to him that a very inadequate advantage accrued from this extension of the inquiry; it was his opinion, on the contrary, that little or no good resulted from entering into long past transactions. It did not compensate for the expense occasioned by prolonged inves tigation ; and he should submit to his Noble and Learned Friend whether it would not be advisable to bring such in quiries within limits, either fixed by law, or lett to the dis cretion of the commissioner. There was another circum stance relating to the execution of the commission. It sometimes happened that under colour of interest in the cause, and ostensibly for the protection of the lunatic, per sons carried on a defence against the commission for their own costs in the inquiry. He proposed, therefore, to give the commissioner absolute and entire discretion in such cases to award such sum in the shape of costs as in his judgment he should think met the justice of the case. An impression had gone abroad that the length of the in quiries was intolerable; he had, however, made some in quiries into the facts, and he found that for the last ten years not more than nineteen out of the great mass of those inquiries had occupied more th an one d ay , an d no t more than five had occupied two days. The cases which had been complained of, therefore, should be looked upon as ex ceptions. Length of inqui r y wa s not con fined to lunacy Not long alone—it was caused by the conflict of evidence since there was an i nqu i ry b e f ore one o f th e Vice-chancel lorsmilar which lasted fift een d a y s; an other occupied a similar period of time. various cases in Lord LYNDHURST then referred to erjets Lord BROUGHAM—" Small and Attwood." d returned which commissions had been issued, and • which verdicts were Amon Among of unsoundness of mind, commission • h had been set aside or confirmed by other S om bre, w--° • t at he them was that of the late Jr.A Dye 0 , -- deluion was n gee rwinaslityhdaet examined by himself, and whose_, ex posed to overtures individualtodinoleinestdahthat where there was a a n d c° c noiluiledt h rank. ge to the Arch would be very well if he was nu A w ao h t i li te er ch c a aa r from certain ladies of hig _ se _, a challenge vre subsequently i b mi l l aC n k a charger. Ile made re ferencebi n i 8 h w e li p i which Canterbury the show of evidence in a ear y i i l respect to anotner point —n 1 ame y, P ar k, h to e b t eht not be abri 'dged• ' it should be heard , through r the jury, he should offer a suggestion• •Twenty fourthe expense 0 - - n ow summoned thry was, • „ were m fac o t u s n t t o e in fact, r jurYin'" e e a grand inquest or rand]g H natureury. e pro in he less notice was iv , that, u nless notice . g en .of the intention to posed a jury, no jury should be summoned as of course, requiro i 1 • but that the maser of the lunatics should d ec id e t h e ques tion so f himself. He also thought a that even where a jury was required less than tweaty-four might be summoned. H e would not state any particular number, but that would be an object of inquiry. It had been suggested that it would be better to have no jury at all, but that the decision should be left to the commission ; this, however, he had a strong objection to. The lunatic hadpublic a right to a investiga tion if it was required, and he (Lord Lyndhurst) should be extremely sorry to see a jury dispensed with in those cases. There was, however, another and a graver ob jection to dispense with a jury. On no subject was there such a difference of opinion as on that which constituted soundness or unsoundness of mind. There was great danger, therefore, that the commis sioner might, when six medical men, for instance, were of one opinion, and six of another, lean to either side—might fancy this or that, and therefore it was far better in cases of doubt and uncertainty to submit the evidence to the decision of e jury, men commonly of plain, bat poictical iinclerstand- inv. It had also been suggested that it would be better to do away with inquiry by commission, and refer the question of lunacy to the assizes in the country, or to analagous juris dictions in the metropolis; this, however, he not think practicable; nay more, he thought it might be in jurious to the lunatic and expensive to his estate. It was absolutely necessary, for instance, that the judge and jury should see the lunatic, as in the present practice, with the purpose of putting questions to him, which ques tions very often decided the issue. How could that be done at assizes? Furthermore, the lunatic might get unduly excited, and sustain irreparable injury by such open exami nation. At present, these inquiries were carried on very often in the residence of the lunatic. Besides this, the wit nesses were usually exam i ned on the spot where they carried on their ordinary avocations. But if there was to be an in quiry at assizes, all these witnesses would have to be removed to the place where the assize was held, and the expense to the estate would be enormous. He saw no advantage, therefore, in changing the tribunal; more especially as no limit could be placed on the length of the proceedings where the case might be one of contested evidence. With respect to another point, that of a new traverse, when twelve or more jurymen expressed their opinion that a person was of unsound mind, he had a right to carry his case before another judge and jury of the same nature. This right had no doubt been called in question by Lord Hardwicke and Lord Thur low ; but Lord Loughborough and Lord Eldon had admitted it; and the decision of Lord Cottenham in its favour had been sanctioned by the Lords Justices. Lord Cottenham decided that there was an absolute right to traverse ; and within the last few days the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack had affirmed that right, in a case now pending. But the reasons for allowing an abso lute traverse in all cases existed no longer ; and he (Lord Lyndhurst), therefore, proposed to extinguish it as such, and leave it to the discression of the occupant of the Wool sack for the time being to grant or refuse it. If he was dissatisfied with the verdict he should have the power of exercising that discretion, either by ordering a new trial or ' by such other form of proceeding as he might think best for the ends of justice. He (Lord Lyndhurst) had made these observations in reference to the Act of 1842 ; in refe rence to the Act of 1845 he would say one word more, with the permission of their Lordships. Any person confined for a s certain period in a licensed house for the reception of lu natics was deemed of unsound mind. The masters in lunacy had a right to examine into the estates of those persons, and to exercise a certain amount of authority over them. Their powers, however, were defective, for they fell short of those of the Commissioners in Lunacy. What he pro posed was that their powers should correspond with those of the Commissioners in Lunacy. The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by thanking their Lordships for the patient hearing they had given him, and stating that, knowing as he did the anxious desire of his Noble and Learned Friend on the woolsack to introduce all possible degree of perfection into the administration of justice, he confidently left the case in his hands. The Noble and Learned Lord then moved for the returns o of which he had given notice.—(Hear.) The LORD CHANCELLOR was not aware of the par ticular topics to be introduced by his Noble and Learned Friend; he could not, therefore, be expected to pledge him self to the numerous measures which he proposed. At the same time he was free to express his opinion that few of them were open to any serious objections. As far as they went they affected beneficially the great object of lunacy legislation, which was to obtain sufficient support for the lunatic, and to preserve his estate The House was in. debted to the Noble and Learned Lord for the Act which hal been passed in 1842, and for the new tribunal in lunacy, which worked, he believed, remarkably well, and which would ultimately enable their Lordships, he hoped, to carry into effect many cf the proposals of his Noble and Learned Friend. The speech of his Noble and Learned Friend opened up very serious considerations. The great thing was to discourage the vast expense which at tended commissions in lunacy, many of which were sought and maintained for the benefit of every one but the lunatic; in fact, the last thing thought of was generally the lunatic. Most of the propositions of his Noble and Learned Friend might be readily adopted ; some of them were of the greatest importance. But to abolish trial by jury in the case of lunatics —to take individual liberty and property without such a means—he did not think possible; though, at the same time, he was ready to admit that there had been cases where a great waste of money had taken place without the slightest beneficial effect. A certain time spent in an asylum was a prima facie proof of a person being under the care of the Great Seal; but that should not prevent cases being sent before a jury. The great object, however, was to provide for the proper maintenance of the lunatic, the due admi nistration of his property, and its exemption from unneces sary expense. The question of traverse was one of great difficulty. The Noble and Learned Lord proposed that the person holding the sign manual warrant should have a per fect discretion in this respect, and decide for or against a new trial himself. This was a question to be considered. He would take the case of Mrs. Cumming, which occopied six teen or seventeen days before a jury, and which the Lord Chancellor in the exercise of his own discretion had again sent for a new trial. In many cases he agreed with his Noble and Learned Friend, that it was no reproach that an inquiry should last long; but there was nothing which he (the Lord Chancellor) deprecated more than the trial of lunacy cases at nisi prius. The circumstance of the lunatic being examined before a judge and jury would, in his opinion, have a most injurious influence upon his disease. All these were nice questions. His Noble and Learned Friend did him no more than justice in stating his anxiety for the perfection of justice; no man living was more desirous than he was to serve lunatics both in person and in estate, and to see justice done. When in another place he had visited most of the asylums in Ireland, and he believed that the labour he had had was not thrown away. In the inquiry into whieh he should go when ha had disposed of the questions of the Court of Chancery he should endeavour to meet the sugges tions of his Noble and Learned Friend. Lord LYNDHURST observed that applications for new trials were never entertained unless the judge who had tried the case stated that in his opinion a new trial ought to be granted. Lord TRURO said that the Act of 1842, and the orders made under it, had been attended with the greatest possible beuefit. He thought, however, chat ttie per-centagc charged upon the estates of lunatics might be so lowered as to relieve the smaller estates considerably. With respect to the right to traverse, the ground on which a party claimed that right was that he had no trial at all. Out of 40 commissions, which was about the number issued an nually, only about five were executed, and not all of these even proceeded to the extremity of contest; and yet, was it not lamentable to find that in each of the 35 uncontested commissions the preliminary expenses up to the appointment of the commission was 2001., out of which about 55/. went to the Suitors' Fund ? He saw no reason why this enormous expense should be permitted, or why the masters in lunacy should, on being applied to by the relatives of the alleged lunatic, not proceed with the inquiry until somebody appeared to object to it. By that means they would avoid the large expense of 2001. in each of the uncontested commissions. The trial upon traverse at nisi prius which had been described as so imperfect, and at which neither the judge nor the jury saw the lunatic, was nevertheless the only final binding act; for the investigation before the commission which was so ex pensive, and the preliminary proceedings in which cost 200/., was finally binding upon no one. Let, then, the proceeding on the trial upon traverse be improved, and where there had been no previous inquiry before a jury, let it be a matter of right to have the power to traverse. The motion was agreed to. FOREIGN REFUGEES. Lord BEAUMONT said that certain papers relating to foreign refugees had been laid on the table; and on next Monday, if it suited the Noble Lord's convenience, he would draw the attention of the House to the subject to which those papers related. The Earl of DERBY hoped the Noble Lord would give notice of his motion in specific form. Lord BEAUMONT said the question he intended to put to the Noble Lord, was, whether he was prepared to lay on the table of the House any further correspondence which has taken place respecting the Rev. Mr. Wingrove who was driven out of Pesth, and another clergyman (we did not catch his name) who was expelled from another part of the Austrian dominions; and also with regard to a certain courier from Constantinople who had been arrested and deprived of his dispatches. The Earl of MALMESBURY said he could answer the question respecting Mr. Wingrove at once. That gentlem an was arrested by mistake, but had since been libe , rated and had received compensation (as we understood). Lord BEAUSIONT said that the question he meant to ask was, whether the Noble Lord was prepared to lay any further correspondence on the table. The Earl of DERBY suggested that the Noble Lord should give notice in due form of the papers he meant to move for. Lord BEAUMONT would then move for the production of all further correspondence which might have taken place on the subject. Then Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 30. MERCANTILE MARINE AND NATIONAL DEFENCE. Mr. ANDERSON called the attention of the House No the report of the Select Committee of session 1849, appointed " to inquire into the practicability of providing, by means of the commercial steam marine of the country, a reserve steam navy, available for the national defence when required," and intimated he would move the follow ing resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this Mouse, that in order the better to provide for the public safety, to economise the public resources, and to preserve peace, it is desirable that measures should be adopted with a view to render the commercial steam navy promptl y was -e available for the national defence in case of emergen cy •, In submitting this m otion he should submit to the .11 0 „ ' a few practical facts upon a subject which scarcely place h e ovni°tlhaetcoPnotlicintoieucnaidtl second in importance to any matter that they had naturally excited c h haavn e g u e n s d w er hie th h e h ir ad co r n e s c i e. d n e t r l a y ti t o a n ck . z : s pecially in Fran of Europe, some solicitude with respect to our means of . , defence in case of a sudden invasion, the result was nationai the establishment of rifle corps, ,i and enrol the militia. This, however,an a proposition to wrong end. Preparations should be , made to prevent an vras beginning at the invasion, and to meet the enemy on that element whereon we had always been was . a prevalent opinion that the ' accustomed to conquer.intwrohtehttwoloi formerly fsteam There navigation had destroyed advantages possessed in our insularposition. We r • were in a better position in that respect than we ever That was fallacious. had been in the history of the count r y. F or every ste am - ship that_th e French possessed we h a d twenty. The United Kingdom possessed 1,300 mercantile . steam-vessels of a ll classes, amounting to about 300,000 to ns , an d 100,000 horse power, most of which could be made available as a defensive force shortest notice. Government should make anarroanngtheee meet with a hundred or two of the larger class of coast ing steam ers , w hi c h m i g ht b e simply and inexpensively armed so as to furnish a force sufficient to repel any ~, sib!e invasion. Steuniere of from 400 up to 1,000 t ons 1-4- might be m a de to carry two largo traversing g uns, 32 or t, b©. 68-pounders, at an expense of fromso et / . to 1501. Of course he should not include the pack cause they were already fitted up to carry eamers s heavy gu ns , and Government had power to appropriate them to the public service whenever it should bo deemed necessary. The owners of these steamers would no doubt be wil lingr enough to make the alterationsp premium. , the iecessaryout lay being returned by an annual um to supply . surely sufficient guns a ship having been stores Admiralty and fitted with th e sweeps for receiving the guns, the ordnance should provideguns ande the ee car riages, and place them at the neerest ordnance depot, to the port from which the vessel usually mann ing of the vessels, th i f f .= usual , eJl:s rti w k o 'd u . ld be ready As to the enough to volunteer, and, s could be i ti,. ..ary, crew made up from the coast guard, commercial marine. When he (fir,fl I-poy officers, and our 1645 for 4 Commitwe to inquize Anderson) moved iti i1:49 this oubject, it was stated that it was done with a view to promote some personal o!sjeet. But he begged now distinctly to state that be had no interest in any steam navigation whet ever, except one company, in which the ships were already under the same re gu l a tion that he wished apply to many more.—(Hear, h ea r.) There was a pre judice among many naval men that mercha nt ships could not carry guns; but the evidence of the mos t Com petent naval authorities examined before the Com mittee went to show that nearly all our sea-going s teamers . were capable of carrying arms. H o held in hi s hand the report of the Committee appointed on the year 1849, to which he wished to call the attention ;el eery minute y the House. That Committee, after going into the question, and examining a number of svitne°'!," his motion in said, " The Committee are of opinion that mercantile; steam-ships of all sines, and the strength nee, scary , the reception of such guns as are used in the re) navy, would be most useful as an auxiliary force for our national defence, and your Committee do not POl eeive any difficulty in carrying out such d u o not _ o That a prompt devel o p men t o f the whole avail maritime resources of th e co untry, in t he eventfo olf. sudden hostiliti es , is most desirable as a means the preservati on o f peace; that the steps necessary t rtnder such mercantile steamers available for the ir pur pose, and the remuneration to be taking them and holding them liable for given by the public le service, must be a matter of arrangement between the owners and the Government, on which the Commit" do not think it desirable to offer any opinion.' up to this Not withstanding that report of the Committee, time nothing had been done by the Government; but a i s i Li me the subject of national defence was now exciting s° interest, be considered it his dut, again to bring th e , the pub lc question before the House.—(LlearYhegar.) The Gallan t Admiral near him (Admiral Berkeley) stated t h e other evening that in the cone: a of twenty-four hours he could line the Channel with steam-vessels. H e (Mr. Anderson) should be surprised if that could not be done, seeing that thirty vessels would be sufficient merely, signal each other, and the private company with which he was connected could accomplish that object; butwhys "- was required was the collecting a larg e number of vessel; within hail of each other, so as to operate on one poin, at a very short notice. Such a forc e wou ld not be Use° for aggressive purposes, but simply to defend the country against aggression, and the very knowledge of the of n a g a f ionracte anywould tebme attempt one of t a the ggr s h s e i s o t n. ‘ tm . - 11 g la tl e a n rd c i e ng of hear.) Fin considered the adoption of the p l;:n a f %vilheificr' he had submitted to the House would be very 5 °ill genus, and trusted the House would agree to he resoiv lion which he had already read.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MACKINNON thought it right to say a few words upon this subject, having had the honour of pre siding over the Committee to which the last speaker hod referred.—(Hear, hear.) The report which the no; nourable Member had read was unanimously agre e ' to by the Committee, and there could b® 11° doubt that in the event of a war or threatened invasion our mercantile marine navy might be rendered available for the national service.—(Hear, hea r ' ) There were ample funds at the disposal of th e Government for rendering it so available and sill ) ; plying each mercantile steam-vessel with arras a nd ammunition. There were no less than 1,230 steti ca vessels attached to the mercantile interest of this country, and if a moiety of that number were rendered fit f ort t . service in case of war, an invasion from any point 0 tho compass would be perfectly impossible. Id a therefore advocated this measure from motives of eco nomy, and he thought if the House would only gill the subject a moment's consideration it we e see at a glance the feasibility of tuts scheme. The idea of blockading t h e enemiee, pond had long been exploded, for in the event of agate of Tero arising our ships might be forced to put to sea, and be o ,ht they could return again to their posts the enernY re c t;s d embark her troops, and our coast being left unprot et/ a landing would not bo so impossible as some pe e , 1) c imagined. Now if this scheme were adopted each El danger would be avoided, and ho therefore hoped the House would agree to the motion. had Mr. STAFFORD must du the Hon. Member wh o brought forward this important subject the justice too say that, whatever decision the House might cori_2 o t_ with regard to this question—whether favouradbl otherwise—his course had been not only plain an dera ness-like, but entirely removed from all party C Oll5l A nee tions.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Member had turned his attention to the subject, not as a partisan, but ne o :_u Englishman, and he must say that he had never kn a Committee which had paid greater attention to a s_ fl tiai jeer, or conducted an inquiry in a more fair and 113 before . b e usi naauner.—(flear.) He would now proceed to laced ew,,, the House the state of our naval force as comP n , that of foreign powers. His Right Hon. Erie a il i n Secretary for the Home Department stated last pito the his speech on th e Militia Bill the following to b ". number of ve sse l s o f war on th© home station and rees,?: to serve-9 sail o f t h e line, frigates, 1 sloop , steamers, and 8 p a ddl e -steamers.. There were 15'''corth.er vessels nearly com pl e t e d. The whole of our naval de fence on the home station stood thus — Vessels. Mon. 0 •• 9 53 ..• • 7 ... 1,544 •• ••• ••• 16 ••• 6,612 5 368 Total ... 48 11,906 __; 11 ... 2,822 To these arid Hecate (cruising), 160 men; Antelope. 55; Vulcan, 152; making in all 52 I j_ ore, and 12,328 men, exclusive of 4,500 Marines on " 6 ito - coast guard and dockyard battalions; being II the gether 29,648 men. In addition he had to mentionable Simoorn and Vulcan, large screw-steamers, each "PPlutoo,ssesl, of moving a regiment, and several small steamers be sides. The whole of her Majesty's ships in commission were— East Indies and China ••• *** 19 Cape of Good Hope ••• 2 6 2 L_ Coast of Africa ... Lord 0 1 Subsequentl to the dismissal of tho u. Noble Member for Tiverton, a notion had arisen among s t foreign powers that England was inclined to ahan w : her efforts for the suppression of the slave trade. Whether it might be wise or unwise to keep up the Afr l ; can squadron ho would not stop to inquire, but he Wu l f be allowed to say, that with regard to the number o vessels on the coast of Africa, so long as they wer e al lowed to rema i n t h ere the Adm i ra l ty wou ld feel it th eir duty to keep them in on e ffi c i e nt state.—(Hear, hear.) He would now proceed to state the number of 'foreign, ships in commission, and wished to call the attention of the House to this curious document, which bad been. prepared with great care arid attention. To begi n with Russia. The number of Russian line-of-battle ships in commission were—in the Baltic, 27 ; Black See , 18: making together, 45. Of f r i ga tes and corvettes there were—in the Baltic, 12; the Black Sea, 12; together, 24. Of brigs, sloops, and schooners there were—in the Baltic, 15; the Black Sea, 19; together, 34; making a total of 103. Then, with regard to steam-vessels, Russia had in the Baltic 8, and in the Black Sea 6 fri gates; of small steamers there were in the Baltic 5, and in the Black Sea 15; in all 34—the entire naval force of Russia being 137. Ile would next take French ships in commission. The French had—ot line•of-battle ships, 7; frigates, 11; corvettes, 10; brigs, 11; small vessels, 12; transports, 22; in all 73. Of steam - vessels of 800- horse power and upwards they had 2 ; between 500 and GOO, 1; between 400 and 500, 8; be tween 300 and 400, 1; between 200 and 300, 15 ; between 100 and 240, 31; under 1 00 , 8 ; in all, 66' The naval forces of the three great maritime powers of Eu rope were: Line-of-battle ships—Great Britain, 72; France, 45; Russia, 45. Frigates—Great Britain, 83; France, 45; Russia, 10. The total sailing Coming f orce was __ Great Britain, 236; Franc e, 257; Russia, 174. s,oniing to largo steamers — Gre at Britain had 37 ; France , 61; Russia, 8. Of steamers under 200-horse power, Great Britain had 9 7 ; Fr ance, 57; Russia, 24 . t h a t we hod shownal msothe d 3 and it was; onsul at M arse i lles, that one of thes e ld I b Ta e lui r r t mb steamers;uei mLboearre a etter from Mr . ilar ß ge ut f i r t r s a b o o s ti o steamers, the Montezuma, carried in 1848 from Oran to Port Honduras, from the 20th _;,, to the 24th of •5711 3 '" 1,818 men of the 6th Light ent 195 officers Infantry and 56th Regius. men altogether. of the Line, and making 2,013 into some details •Is and crew of the ship:: „ether. (The Hon. Member , w ho ,_ went through these entered . statistics with great rapidity, then not possible on all occasions to be fully wing that it is for the purpose of sh ° pre- , pared to r • eteanit report e thatsp o k p e r s t o i indistinctly o f hisobs e t r h y a a t but he the transport of troops by means . 0f quit e o on unable to ' tiYitfl reference to the statistics above he said would be given, I seen from these figures that one great foreign power, fret!' equal which most was to be feared, stood almost upon 0 1 footing with ourselves; and it should never be for gotten that the necessary preparations in order to com plete s.a)re plete the work of invasion, which formerly would have occupied a month, could now be accomplished in a ni g ht, and it th e r e f ore b ecame of essential importance, if the House wish e d to ren d er t h e coast secure from attack, to see that our navy was placed upon an effi c ient footing . Much had been done since the Duke of Wellington , in 1847, warned us of our defenceless state; but s t ill more remained to be done if th e coun t r y desired to teach fo reign nation s th a t no t on l y an invasion but an atta ck upon our co as t was impracticable and impossible; and be had no hesitation in confessing that before many . of our ships of war cou ld h e rendered fit for sea, the services of no less than three thousand additional men would bo necessary. The Hon. Gentleman had come forward with the opinions of several eminent men, showing the itn portance of mercantile steamers in cases of emergency. Before the Committee which sat upon this subject, Captaie Chads stated that he thought it highly fleece^ sary, as an auxiliary measure, that we should have mer cantile steamers to defend our coasts against the num; ben of a rme d F rench steamers w hi c h would be sent Out to annoy them in case of war, and he added that he did not thiek that less than 150 or 200 of the most powerful vessels would be sufficient for that purpose. Captain H en d erson a l so gave i t as hi s o pinion befor e the„ same Committee, that we oug ht to have a number t.)! light fast steamers in the Ch anne l, in case a war sboulia break out, both to protect our own trade and to criq tho enemy's vessels. He a dd e d, th a t in the event o ' war, the enemy would be sure to have numberles s light and fast steamers, with a small complement Of ° Pau l; on board, cruising about the Ch a n ne l and annoyi n g 0- 0 coasts. These oninione were all of them favourable the views of the lion. Gentleman o and he (Mr. Staff V i had no hesitation i n sa yi ng th a t this Admiralty een_f e no ; the Prineiele.—(Hear, hear.) The Admiralty bftel l3 waited for the mot i on o f th e H on . G ent leman, bu t 0- cif i - e : of the first things that they did on coming into ,ins was to put th emse l ves i n commun i ca ti on with Pl' üb who could supp l y t h em w i t h i n f ormat i on upon the 5 jeer. Th e p resent B oar d o f Ad m i ra l ty acceded to 0 0 is proposi t i on o f t h e H on . M em b er; t h ey acquiesced in„flct• tuotiou, aid desired mos t sincerely to ca rry it WO er tbo (Hear, bear.) But he must he permitted to remi"" bich Ltetouraitle Geulletneu of the difficulty in navy the Admiralty found themselves, for as th e tiQ p 0 estimates had Already passed, laeru was of QQ' Woolwich ... Shoernebs Portsmouth Devonport Cork ~. MARKET NEWS.-(THIS DAY.) _... CORN EXCHANGE (WEDNESDAY) Notwithstanding that the supply of English Wheat on sale in to-day's market was very limited, and that no imports have taken place from abroad this week, the demand for all kinds were in a very inactive state, yet Monday's prices were mostly supported. Fine Foreign Wheats were in moderate request, at previous currencies. Low and middling parcels were almost nominal. For export next to nothing was doing. The show of Barley was very moderate. Picked samples lit for malting purposes were taken at extreme currencies, but grinding and distilling sorts were heavy. No change took place in the value of Malt. We had a slightly improved sale for Oats, at very full currencies. Beans, Peas, Indian Corn, and Flour were dull, but not lower. ARRIVALS THIS WEEk. Wheat. 1 Barley. I Malt. Qrs. Qrs. Qrs. I Qrs. Sacks English •• •• •• 1 , 790 3,660 1,770 I 1,610 1,640 Irish •• •• •• •• Foreign ...... 2,490 Oats. Flour. 1 7,200 i 1,230 BOROUGH BOP MARKET. Our market continues to be very scantily supplied with Hops„ yet the demand is heavy, and prices are barely sup. ported. WHITECUAPEL. The supplies of each kind of meat being in excess of demand, the trade ruled heavy, at drooping prices. Beef Iron: 2s to 3s ; Mutton, 2s 4d to 3s 4d ; Veal, 3s to 4s; Pork, 2s 4d to 3s 6d. per 81ba by the carcase. SELLING TRADE. TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES. Sir,—Observing an article in your paper of this day on .he subject of the bookselling business, we beg to inform you that the question which you discuss has been for some time under the consideration of Lord Campbell and several other eminent literary men, and we wait to be informed of their conclusions. In candour to yourself your informant should have acquainted you with this fact before precipi tating a discussion which must shortly be settled by the judgment of those to whom the question has been referred. Permit us to add the following facts : The association is not a publishers' association, but an as sociation of the book-trade generally, and originated with the retail booksellers. As publishers we are no further interested in it than so far as it has been supposed to promote the sol vency of the trade and the prosperity of literary specula tions. The sale of books by retail is so insignificant a part of a publisher's business that in supporting the association he cannot be actuated by a desire to obtain the double profit to which you allude. We are, Sir, your obedient servants, LONGMAN, BROWN, and Co. Joust Munnay. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. THE March 3). HOUSE OF LORDS, March 30. DURATION OF THE PRESENT SESSION OF PARLIAMENT. The Earl of MINTO, seeing Lord Lyndhurst in his place, csked him whether it was his intention to pro ceed with his Bill for enabling each House of Parliament to take up in an ensuing session a measure which had been passed by one of them in the preceding session? He was induced, to ask this question as ho found that there was a general impression abroad that we might very shortly expect a dissolution of Parliament. It was also said, that as a very short and hurried session would follow the general election, many measures would be passed in one House which there would not be time to consider in the other. He suggested that some of such measures might be proceeded with during the present session, as their Lordships had at present a great deal of leisure in their House. The Earl of DERBY—Before my Noble and Learned ' Friend answers this question, I beg to correct a misap prehension under which the Noble Earl opposite labours as to what fell from me some nights ago. Nothing has ever fallen from my lips which could lead any man to suppose that the present would bo a session of unusually short duration. I never said anything that could justify such a conclusion. I say further, that the continuance of the session depends on causes over which I can have no control. As tar as I can form an opinion, the next session, so far from being a short and hurried session, will commence at an early period, and will be of no ordinary duration. The Noble Earl has done me the honour to allude still further to what he supposes me to have said. What I did say was this, that I thought it advisable that the autumn should not pass over without Parliament coming to a decision on certain subjects deeply affecting the welfare and interests of the country. But I did nct say anything which could lead the House, nor did I intend to lead the House, to the impression that there would be an early dissolution in the spring, to be followed up by a short and hurried session in the summer. On the part of her Majesty's Government there was no such intention. As to the object of the question now put by the Noble Earl opposite to my Noble and Learned Friend, as to the expediency of pass ing a Bill to enable us to keep a measure hanging over from one session to another, I have only to say, that whatever may have been his intention or mine as to enabling one House of Parliament to take up in a fol lowing session a measure passed by the other in a pre ceding session, I never contemplated a measure for enabling us to continue in one Parliament a Bill com menced in another. The Earl of MINTO complained that he bad . bee n misunderstood b y t h e N o b le Earl oppos i te , an d exp_l voice what he actu a ll y had said, but in too l ow a tone of to enable us to report him. The Duke of NEWCASTLE—My Lords, Etl7_ Noble under standing t is, that the present explanation of no Earl (Derby) i s not in accordance with that w hich I with understood to fall f rom hi m on a f o r m er night, nor the understa n di ng wh i ch other N o bl e L or ds have of the expressions whi ch he then used, and which g ained approbation, nor with the general interpretatio n their atien of public. The N o bl e E ar l h as state d w ith which he greatcothre. redness the latter part of she answer then gave me ; b ut t h e N o bl e E ar l will not. I think, tonplate an deny that he als o s t a t, a l that be did e early dissoluti on o f P ar li amen t, a nd that he t d_id n o t think it rigt,t, consideripg the temper o f