The Sun. — London, England, 1812-02-28 00:00:00

Gough the printed copies of tl,e papers had, as the Honourable Gentleman had said, been delivered that day, that appeared to him of little consequence.— There was only one line in these papers on which he would rest the motion that he felt it his duty to submit to the House, and that was, " that Mr. - Walsh bad been found guilty of the felony laid in the indictment." With respe& to Mr. Walsh's let ter to his brother, it wouldbe produced at the Bar of the - House by - Mr: Jenkins, the Soliciter, • and would be read distinaly and audibly by the Clerk at the table. This, in his opiniOn, would afford the Ilousean ample opportunity of judging of its ten dency. The thing would speak for itself in the most unequivoc t terms; and the letter would exhibit a coMplete avowal of a' guilty mind and a guilty atri. If, after bavingheard this letter, the House should think further 'delay necessary; however unwillingly, he rnu,t bow to their opinion. 'There was one ar gument of the Honourable Gentleman's which he could by no means allow. He could not admit flat under such circumstances the absence _of any Hon, Members afforded a just growl(' for postpowno- the consideration of the subjed. The hour was by no means unusually early, and it ought to be knOvvn to every Alember of Parliament, that rnattets of privi lege took precedence of all &her questions. fle.put . it to the House whether or not they wined that the bbsirkss shoUld proceed ? Mr. LAMBE thought that there could - not be a tiiore grave and solemn reason assigned (or delay, than (Int Honourable Men - rives Were not in full. -• tr 1 • the subjeCt. The possession o ev er.ce on question was one of a novel nature; alai_ would therefore establish a precedent. It wa's flat - thefe fore,cOnsiiient with a due regard' to the privileges of the HiAlseto proceed so suddenly and so hastily in t he:determination of it. Mr. WYNNE would not anticipate the decision of Llouse on the question itSell. It was admitted by those who were Most competent to form a judg ment upon it,. to be one of very considerable difficul ty, and he thbiight that the House could not refuse to listen to the arguments urged by the two Hon. Gentlernen for postponement ; when they consider ed how short a time a 'part of the papers had been oil the ',table, how recently the printed . copies of then had been put into the hands "of Members, and how importalit a piece of evidence yet remained to be received. • He (Mr. W. Wynne) suggested the propriety of the. inunediateproduClion of the letter written by Mr. Walsh to_ his brother.- That letter might be read, and ordered to be printed. A sufli - - eient time might be given to allow of a comparison of that Ltier with the other documents, and of an examination of the Journals as to former proceed ings on similar cases; and thus fully informed on the. stlbjeCl, the House might come to, a more so lemn decision upon it than they could on the, pre sent occasion.. .Mr. BATHuasT., was of opinion thar,the .case was quite strong enough without the produ6tion of Mr. Walsh's letter. Still. if Honourable Gentlemen thought that the other:documents had not been printed long enough- to allow a • full - damination of their nature- and contents, a -short postpotlenont night with propriety- be ac.eclecl to. He ticpre cated,' how ever,•any unnecessary delay or •so - grave a subject, and one which so nearly , iiinplicated. the Frivireges arid character of . tlw 1-1 - ouse; • . The order of the day having been. read,' . Mr. BANKES. observing that he was 'otle,aciffie last men-who-vottld- wish twbe.,ioo hasty ;in wis ing- such a question, expressed his intenlion.rtf.pOst i,;ino4ithe ueciSion of it:until.MlOiyA , -.!, The SPEAKER apprehended, that as the.-business w.is not then to be,eunciuded„ it.would be neces make a .fiesh, order,for theattelidaote of Mr, Walsh- in his place on Mcnday, fnt.,fie.'first i;l; ! c e , however, it would be expedient to . .asceilain uhether_Mr. Walsh had been served with the order of the House, requiring his attendance in his place on this day. 01:e of the Messengers was called to the bar., . . 'T,Iie,SpEAKEn.—Mr. Skelton, have you served ir. Benjamin Walsh, Member of this House,with the Order of ti:e House, requiring his attendance in its place on this tlq ? I%&s,enger--Yes, Sir, I have. I saw Mr. Walsh yesterday morning at ten 0'c10 , ..k, and he.told me he had received from his brother the Order which J lett at his house on Tuesday night. The Messenger having withdrawn, Mr. Jenkins, tl.e Solicitor, was, on the motion of Mr. Bankes, cidled to the Bar. tie SPEAKER—Mr. Jenkins, ycu were the Soli ci:ot to the pie4eLution'against Mr. Benjamin Walsh, a Member of !ilk I-1063e. iri ?. r. The SPLAKER—Have you brought With you the lett,ir mentioned in time Order - of this House, pur- tot,,, a l; tier trora Mr. Belijarnin 'Walsh to s br()fter ? have. The SPEAKER--Are you acquainted with the ct Mr. ? MI. Jenkins—No I am not. theie any body with you who is acy,ainted with is ? Alr—Jenkins---Yes; Mr. Auricle. 'Mr. Mtride appeared at the bar. The SPEAII{---41,1r . . Attrick, are you acquainted %Anil the hand-writing of'lldr. Beoj.anin Walhh ? Mr. Attride—Yes. The SPEAKER—Have you ever seen him write ? Attricle—;•l have. The SPeAKER—Look at that letter, and inform the House whether it is the hand-writing of Mr. Ettojainha Walsh ? _ _ Mr. Ai tride—l believe it is. T:.e SPEAER-D0 you entertain'any doubt on the subject ?-I.ook at the whole of the letter. Attfide—l have no doubt that this is' Mr. Walsh7s hand-wriiiiig. The SP.EA4Eit—i-Lve .y9u ever welt that ItAL:r before Mr. Attride .. 7 -Never. The SipiK.Eit:--Mr. Jenkins, were you at trial of Mr. Walsh ?, • Mr. Jetikirks—Yei. The SPEAKER—Bi viliom:was that lettcy deli yered into the Cowl ? INlr. Je the SoLcitbr:Genet : id,. The SPEAKER-14 whose e 111 4 .04 since ? . . Mr. Jejikin ' s-4n Sr The til4t :the `ido,hQc'pl ,fie ter ; livered iiito'Ciitirt 6y the- the , trial of Ur. Walsh, and kept by you ever sincc ? Mr. Senliiht The Witnesses were then nrdered to withdraw., The letter dated Dec. 5, 181 1 , was read by t h e Clerk. (It has already been before the public). Mr. BANKES moved that it-be printed. Mr.•LocKi A liT wished to know whether to . agree to the printing of this paper would be to entertain the charge againSt Mr. Walsh ? If so, it would be a grave subjeot _for the . consideration of the Hottp , . and he requested, ther e f o r e , t o be tavourej ‘,vttli the opinion of the Chair. .• , The, St'EAKER apprehended. that the letter was: part<of the charge against the Hon. Member. What decision the House would come tocin the charge, it - would be for them to determine, when_, they came to consider the evidence of which this .letter was a parf., • . Mr. LoCKTIA - RT, understanding fhat the letter Was to be received as evidence of the clrirge, objei ed most strongly to its reception, because it was only, qidente ofa most disliOnouraOle andinfamous transac tion between one individual and another.lkle hoped the I l li,.4 . ..GentleMait ,M,eati to adduce it in support *of t he.. re c o rd of .I\4, Wolah'S conviCtien, That could norbe,,done, for the contents of the re cord trust be its only support.. If it were intended to rely on 'the letter in the - event of, the record trot being considered sufficient to warrant - -the House in acquiescing_ in the _ultimate proposition Of the, Hun. Gentleman, then he trusted the nor* would ap! ,point a Conamittee to search - for precedent; in order to discover' whethefany such charge as that which . could founded on the letter had ever been enter tained by • Pa r li ament ; and whether Parliament had 'ever proceeded to expel ,a Member on the know- IdgeO,l a trarisadion, however infamous, between one inclividual . and . anot h er . he -had. trade diligent inquiry on the - subjeCl, and .he Cutildfind only one case in the year 170, in which Sir Edward Thomas having complained, -of frauds and abuses on the part of his on towards himself, the Ho.use . did entertain the charge but they a(terwards threw . it out as not being on s uffici e nt grounds, and d e - . cided that only those charges could be entertained' which were founded on transaaliuns in'famons in a ", public point of view. All such tranSactioue resolved themselves into four classes. The ,first, cases of , persons whO were found infamou s by the records of their convidions in Criminal Courts of Law; se condly, cases of persons who had been in open re bellion ; thirdly, cases of persons gUilt v Of corrupt, and improper practices. a s Membersiof that House; and, fourthly, Ccir,:S of 'persons guilty, of . offences against thepLl.Uic. - Never, however, was a charge. entertained founded on a dishonest transaction be-, tween man and man. T o entertain such charg e s would be to make the. House of Commons.a great Court of ' Judicature, authorised to examine every private transaction that was alleged to be improper and the ultimate purposes to which such A power , might be applied no one could foresee; that it would be productive of enormous inconvenience was evident, and. he therefore pressed for the appoint-- ment of. a Committee, before a precedent was established, calculated to be so injurious in its con ,sequences. I'he CHANCELLOR:Of the EXCHEQUER confessed • hiriasell, rii.vable. to distinguish the letter from the other documents on the subject, or to understand vv,hy the oidering of the letter to be printed was more ".comPletely to . entertain the charge than the ordering of te printifig of the other documents. q't.re , Hon. Qenifernon seemed to have misconceived what fell 1 ft - till the Choir, ,The charge was no t a t pre s ent be fore lrc - House iti. a. shape to be entertained, nor be. so, until, there was a motion on the sub- E. - 4. apprehended that the Hon. Metier of the proposition . bad moved ; for the record of,convidion, the Judge's letter, &c. and had moved that those documents be printed---that he had examined the witnesses at the bar—that he had Obtained from one of them, Mr. Walsh's letter to his brother, and than he now moved that that letter be printed—all for the purpose of taking those preliminary steps which would enable the House to judge whether or not the charge ought to be entertained. The printing of the letter 'could by no means prejudge the question of entertaining the charge. He had no difficulty in admitting that the question was one of very grave consideration, and that the House must Well weigh how far they could with safety and propriety adopt the charge • without establishing a precedent which might be found produetive of serious inconvenience. Mr. WYNNE observed,. that by what had b e e n 'already done, the letter must appear on the Jour nals, And must be transmitted to posterity, as hav ing been received and read in the House, just as completely as if it were ordered to be printed,..— The objection might, with uriore propriety, bave been made to the motion on Tuesday for duetion. The letter was then ordered to be printed. • • • The SPEAKER said, that this Was theproper time to acquaint the 14.,uSe, tilat he had received two letters from Mr.. Walsh, intimating his intention of not appearing in his place, but not ascribing that intention to any bodily incapacity. Ai 'fie could not find in the Journals any preCedent of a, written defence having been receited from Members,' who, having been ordered toattend, failed to du so, with- out attributing hig non-attendance to. bodily inca pacity, he would not read those ,letters, uuless if were the pleasure of the House that he. should do so. On she motion of Mr..BANR.Es, Mr, Rex:y.lmin Walsh was ordered to attend in his place on Monday. On the motion of Mr. H. THORNTON, various Accounes of the official value of Exports and Im poris for the last four years, were ordered to be laid bel(6g the House. The Committee on the liish Population. Bill was postponed to Monday. _ STATE OF THE NATION. SiG T. TUR . TON .allowed,.that when he recolleaed the, taleats and eloquence of those great men who, on former occasions had submitted to the House motions bimil a; to that of which be 14.1 d given no tice, and, the assistance ‘yhich they derived front the reliediveparties.to which they .were attached,;, and wben,he•considered the situation in which- he stood, ~~t}aided;bye ; partyy ;acid uhproteeed by qualibc4tions ot.; perlonaLnature„ he was-aprehs;psive, the Rouse wou; , l presumptuous, if not incapable executing IJAl.4l3ll,,Ar i ssignv.Ll,u), tiii,nst If. But tfics . e,weyengt tigkes,iu.whicluaily scitish aivirre )leßisup 4,lo , gll„tp..tiety• r a.man frtm. exiirc. v ing his sense of inedsur:?.s that lie conceived to tic detriinen- tal to Ws country ; anti, una.sliattd as he patty, he haa in that eitetitiVance the Consolation cf feeling that patty prejudices could not be putted to him.- He teat ed that he should,weary the attention of the House before he sat down, but he must in this respe6l throw himaAt .ore their candid indulgence. It'had been supposed; . because he had moved for a variety of papers relative to the war in the Peninsula, that that war Was the sole objea his_ motion, Would to God that it could be so ! But it was to the alarming situation of the country in all rest eats, that he wished to draw the atten • lion ot . the House. He asked the Houle- to awake from the lethargy in which they hail for so many yeers been sunk—to consider calmly and dispas sionately the course of events since the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and his colleagues, had heed iu office—and then 'to lay their hands on their hearts aad deterrnine, whether they could resist .his motion for going itatp:a Committee on the State el the Nation. The,k-lon. Baronet here entered in to a review of the transa6tions of •thc last six yeatS, of which we shall content ourselves with a very slight sketch. He began with the termination of the Ncgociation for Peace in 1806. After that Ne gociatiota was unhappily broken off, •Buouaparte marched against Prussia. The fall of that power was • u:upitied ; but in its consequences, the pre di6tion of Sully, that,France would one day possess universal donnuion on the Continent, w t , a) fully verified. SoOn after this period, the 13,-!in and 'Milan Decrees were issued, being. much the sanie experiment upon Great Britain,' that Great Bri tain subsequently made upon France by her Or ders in Council. It Was determined in this couii try to assume an attitude most 'advantageous to resist the further aggressions of Fra:'ce. The flist expedi-' Lion undertaken by the preaeht Ministers was that against' Copenhagen, and Which he owed it to truth and justice to say was in his opi'nion highly meri torious. Soon after this occulted the resistance. in Spain to the de,Signs of Buonaparte. There was but cue heart and mind. in ,this country with re spect to the succours to be 'wanted' to Spain on that occasion ; and lie' remembred having almost been cried ao4h, for asking whether it . was not a tempo rary ebtillition in Spain rather than a 'permanent feeling? Ministers were accortlinglY.eieited to make great exertions. The SpanisliGovern men tisaved'pro ,clamatiCna foll'of energy, but never up to them. They stated it to be their intention' to Can out five hunured and fifty_ thoti4arid mien. •Undr . all the en curnatances of those times", he:did not blame Mi eisterS for having consvuted to cb:opetate with the Spaniards as allies. Hi proceeded to go over the two first campaigns in Spairi,,,teuching on, the first lanclihsof ,Sir Arthur Wellegley in Mondego Bay, . his supersession by Sir Harry 'Bitrraid and :Sir Hew Dalrymple, the battle of Viiiiiera, the Con vention 'of ch)ted, the omission of affording any assistance to Castkw's immediately after that pe riod : the Unfortunate march of , General Moore - through Spain; the desertion the Spaniards experi-• ericed in that march ; the opening of the second campaign by Sir Arthur Wellesley; his pursuit of Souk over the anno ; his imprudent march to Ta lavera ; the glotious battle of. Talavera, &c. He then considered the motives which led to the ex pedition to. the Scheldt. These were asserted to be for the purpose of creating a diversion in fa vour of Austria, involved in a war with Buonaparte, which, be would do Ministers the justice to say, they hadbeen,far from advising her to hurry into. During the operations of the Austrian army, (with the ex ception of a trifling diversion by Sir J. Stuart), not a shot had been fired by the BritiSh, although their aid was loudly called for by their Allies. 'But. after the fate of Austria bed been sealed,. by the battle of Wagram, the unfortunate expedition to the Scheldt sailed, which had been . , productive of no effect but the loss of 1 1,000 brave train, whose loss would ,have been avoided, ; if a Right Honourable Gentleman, then a Secretary of State, had come f0r.... ward and declared his 'conviction of the incapacity • of the Noble Lord at .the bead of the War Depart- Mem. Instead,, however, of impeaching that Noble • Lord or, his Colleagues, Parliament passed a vote of approbation of the measure. Was not that a ground for an Inquiry into the state of the Nation ? (ii hvigh.) The Noble Lord. Might laUgh at the con sideration th at lie Was invulnerable ; but wii3t would British historians say of the unparalleled Vote of Approbation of Parliament, after the w ste of so much blood and treasure ? By the place • which the Noble .Loral occupied in the f)ouse, he 1S ;l was apprehensive th a t th e oble Lord - would soon • return to power. In th.tt case theCabintrt would very soon become - warlike, the expeditions more tre quent, and the consequences of them 'more fatal.— lie then adverted to the question of the nature of the co-operation whicil thrL Spaniards. - affurded.— Whai was the present situation of the Country There were only two or three towns in the posses sion of the Spanish government. It becanie ne- ,cessary to ask, therefore, whether it was. expedient that this country should proceed h the conte.si, the expeptes of whir - A. were so`enOrmous, and the issue of which likely to be so unfavourable.? But he should be told . that the GoVernment ot - Spain was changed, and that greater -exettiOns Might be ,expected from the new Government. Wit:tared-it would not be so. He !wiped it might be ,so. he did not think that such a hope, contradicted by suclt long experienc, was a sut - liOent i . oducernent to thii country to continue to bear those extreme heavy ,burdens which she had,bitherco endured.— The 11 - cr.-Baronet wished to ask whether the pre sent Government in Spain was more arc.live and more energetic, so as to lead to a probable hope That the wishes of nor Government would eventually be carried into effect To that question he would art. swer himself, certainly not. Their condoel in every .respect had shewn it—they interdicted the Libery of the I > ress- 7 -they refused our - offered meditation with respect to_South America. lo4tead of attend ing to our complaints respecting the - conduct of G neral Ls Pena, in net having fired a shot, they re warded him . with the cross of a Military Order. In stead of progressively advancing to the assistance in the common cause, they hadinvatiably • retro - graded from the crimmencement of. the war to - the sur render' of General Bhike and his Army.. The policy - and conduct of the war'catried on. in the PenittsJa, in wiratever light it wa s vi ew ed, wou ld afford matter for, grav e rind serious delPo.ration it) the.(ominitik., it the House of Commons should accede his motion. With • resiwa - to the Npenses ipeorrO ins the coniest, tie snuthld ieciihed to vote any sunt, if my LOrd Wei woul,l say that toe prolongation woilld lead to &tiivoutabie re-. • snit, and that thectindueiof the Spanish Govern went was to be . - tolerated. The expeuset of the ear anto.inted to between t 1 and le millioos an nually, drawn (rem the tai;~ s whieb the country was unable to bear, rod i t iltiehfne protracted for t weetyor thirty fears, to a duration lorry; 3 5 the Pelopon fleshly: war. From this subiea the ILA. Baronet adverted to the exertions in the Mediterranean.--; from t 805 , .we had ,been Oleg the' &cilia te ; 300,0001.'annuallyi lietling up an army at an ex .pence.of o•te mill ton and a halt - aterling, in order t a i `support a Couit, the focus of se:hit:h. wasiturielld. against its supporters. Pa, n; from Sicily, he tea.; tered into the Easielndies, and oireel e d th e aatentioo of the . Heretic kothe situatiouast ?Hairs in that (leer: , ter O f the geibe,•con,endfog, - that the- acquisition of . territory had contributed to ine dasgrace, and to thel ruin of bar finances. He dreaded that if 50n7n..11144 was not done speedily to all ty she discontents in the.; 'army, worse mischief than had already happened would follow. But what hed contributed to raise . apprehension in his breast more than any other cause, was the interference of the Government in the administration of th e jurisprodetr c e o f the country, by potrishing juries who had gone against. their wishea in finding vorditts; the Advocate General was concerned in these tor/reit:lions.— [Mre Wallace exclaimed,, " No !" , j —The - .fact was so. The Houourable Baronet maintained; and : -he. would prove it et the bar, from &cu..' men ts which he i';+; in his possessner. /11 short, hd I , otew no tee. eenetit 'hat could result from our East and West India Conquests. He' then a ;vetted to •the rel at iv e s i tuat i ons at tin country and America, vellieb he mentioned tv;tll e-ett respect, hut con. tended, that the distessio ,s ~teen no hind mow, 'than a war of words, write); ,` it, seine test aleee. The relaxation of the contest arose trout the rule of war adopted in 1756, which provided e tiatt a B e l: ligetent should not-be justified in time of war in depa r ti ng from the situation which he oce e p e I in" :heoime of peace. He was aware that inavas teller jeer which required great consideration, and setioes deliberation. With respect to the Orders in Coten e cil, the latter of those, of the 11th No., ember, was issued in consequence of the (:nemy avin g declared ate ports of England in a state of b'oekade, The law Of retaliation, by this ceutitry havingetbe power in her own hands to carry the system of blockade into effect; was a just measure ; and in so doing, this country had a grand and fatuous precedent, in the confederacy against Louis XIV. for the sam e reasons which urged the adoption of the pre , sent Orders in Council,--namely, that the over whelming power of that monarch threatened he re pose of Europe. Puffenclorff and other writers ban admitted the validity of this pretext ; but the other order was an infringement of the tit!) articlexal the Treaty of 1806, which provided that Anwrica sheaf trade with any colonies belonging to the enemy, - upon paying ara ad valorem duty on the articles traded in, and by this, what he would term, pitiful expedient, a sum of thirty thousand pounds was raised, and the quarrel between the two countries commenced. Buonaparte had rescinded his Decrees, but instead of rescinding our Orders in Council, to relieve the distresses of our manufacturers, they were pertinaciously adhered to ; they were not, as tire Right Honeairable Gentleman bad stated, the lona fides, but the mala fides of this country. %Vl:en he examined the Documents published to all .the world, in respect to the discussions of Mr. Monroe, he gathered - from them,that so far from concilkatinte being - the dispoSition of the Government, the con trary was the case. He, however, conjured thet House to pause before they consented to act hestile/y towards America. As to the situation of Ireland, how had the question respeBing the situation of that portion of the United 'Empire been treated I The Honse had refused to entertain inTaily on 'what was stated to be Catholic , Cutteessiens, but was that a reason for refusing to inquire into the state of her commerce and trade, into the state of the education of her youth, and into various other 'matters connetted with the happiness of the people? Was nothing to be done to ...men late their condi tion? Tire Hon:Baronet then adverted to the situa tion of this country, ill respeet to the state of is com merce anal resources, w hrch lie would class u n der wo heads ; namely, the number of men, an,l the ex penses. The army, including the Local Militia (which he pert at 250,000) ; amounted the aggre gate, to t 307,000 men, drained from a population in England of about six millions, to which Wright be added two millions from Ireland, making, in the whole, eight, millions of I ersons. The army, there fore, vas about One-tenth of the whole of this male population, abstracted from the pursuits of e&tieulturee end other means of labouring industry. lie was aware that the answer to these observations 'tar:mild be, " Why, this war is uneateradented in the annals of the country : be6.l s, the temper and spirit of the people ate But beyond this of the adults available for service, ore out of every fourth or fifth was li +hie. The expense of support ing this vast force was little - short in the last year col, 31 millions sterliug ; above seven millions ster ling more than the expenditure for the army in 1803. With re.sped to the debt, the unfunded and unredeemed debt in I'Bt f , was not less than 0 t millions, being an itacreasetal r lel tt illions since the coMmencetneet of tie war.' In looking therefore at this increased expenditure, he had ,greet appre- • heosioo that, whatever might be the wishes and in• tentions towards Strain, the resources Of the . coma try could not be cominetiserate whit .!rose wishes; it would become the House to see whether .the country in future. would be enabled to meet the ex pentee of the war. What was the siturtion - of the country to warrant this enoranters expetex ) Tice revenue which he collected from the papers tree to the sth of January 1812, was this ; 'the sur• plus of the, Consolidated. Fund amounted to 2,873,0001. less than the preceding year ; the taxes V'ere short 2,029,0001. Was there reason Co think that when the country was at tle end of taxation, means could be formsned for car ring on the war If the taxes could not be ma d e mtet the expendi ture, i expenditure must be made to. meet tin.- taxes. The reCeiets of the Customs were"also less - by ee0,0001. ; these were fit Subjeets for inquiry.— In this cone]itionot things -was not peace dasireble it had beep said by the Right Hot). Gentlyman, that lie had.no peisond objection to Buonaparte; but supposing he had : in similar circumstances the Ge verement did wit refuse to treat- with Lewis IV. when he had nivatied and plundered the elation we now' supported.' France dot hot refuse to listen-to Cromwell; who in.. irtaini of erieciple was siLuilax.to