The Sun. — London, England, 1812-03-20 00:00:00

4sting. Whenever a proposition was made fo Statesmen of different opinions to coalesce, it Was a subject of much consideration. Different Circumstances must lead to ,different decisions. —The two most recent and most celebrated coalitions were, that of Mr. Fox and Lord North ; and subsequently that of Mr. Fox and Lord Grenville. Let the House reco!leEt the cir !utnstances of those periods. The great political ifferences between Mr. Fox and Lord North re -Irded America. Lord North advocated coercion, r. Fox objeded to it. But it was not until the se 'ation of America, and therefore not until this es fial political d.fference was removed that Lord -th and Mr. Fox coalesced. Notwithstanding, ever, the union was' formed on honourable -the people were nut pleased with it. If therefore, consequently unattended hbenefi- Ted's, and ought to operate as a warning againit tempt to form a Cabinet in 'contraditlion to ntiments of the nation at large. With re the latter coalition, the chief political diffe between Mr. Fox and Lord Grenville bad tom the French revolution. The one con .or war with France during that period, the peace. When that revolution ceased, the' and of political difference was removed, and of Mr. Fox and Lord Grenville was most ly, effected. : But at the present awful ueriod the distresses of which he feared rapidly increase), it was proposed to ion in the Cabinet of persons who differed in almost every point of forego and obey. For instance, Administration with a conscientious feeling), had deter nly not to relieve the Catholic:sof Ireland disabilities under which they laboured, to allow their case to be taken into On the other hand,those who were r Administration entertained opinions te,t hitting it absolutely necessary he Catholics, and declaring that they err duty, if in the Cabinet, to advise less the. Prince Regent to take the it modes of carrying that object into with respect to the disputes be lin and the United States of Ame e Noble Lords on his side of the that the Orders in Council ought .dministration, on, the controry, 'tug this important subjea under either House of Parliament— , e starving state of the iVlanufac tresses of every description of ry, so determined were Mini ir system, that they would not be a4itated ; they wculd not pointmeni of a Committee to er these circumstances of di ion on questions of such vi pealed to - the House and to is Noble Friends could have they had done ? The No o a long argument in fa h Catholics from their disa ish might as well be asked iel and to live on dry land, all the subje6ts of the on the same footing, and l rights. Unless - any set g to justify with-holding it was tyranny to do so. ry itself was intelerance, attire would not be 1111 i ., Uierting to America, he 'o contemplate not so rohable future state of tat in twenty years her nust render her either ai , lable foe. On the , he returned his sin ids for the manliness I. As there was no \ere was no evil un t by the late occur ons of the country public had been in n to public men, abused, when they tie influenced by some explanation e evening of the -y, at such a eh- Noble Marquis, Personal respect, nerally acknow- in' the course duty to make, is to the feel mover of the vould be ten )eld possibly 'ed for a mo f the Noble twn, in The ave thought what were re called to their hopes form an if the No lly insult of Lords hich tile nuud the curable nds did and it place, •opped 'here, e?-- that r his dual tion les, ent rat ch to heard of the Circumstance until that evening) had been declaiming violently against the Catholics.— This had been a very common usage ever since the Reformation. Had it increased so considerably within the last -six weeks, as to afford a ground for les No ble Feiend's motion i• But then, in addition to this, the extraordinary state of the press • had been ad duced in support of the motion. Was that a new thing within the last six weeks > Certainly the press teemed with strong attacks; but whence did they come ? From what portion - of the press did they proceed ? Was it because a part of the press was audacious enougfi to bid defiance to all, decency, that the House must agree to the motion of his Noble Friend ? Adverting to the Noble and Learned L'trd's argument in favour - of ,•the Catholics, he obsrved, that tire Nobie and Learned Lord was a convert on that subjea ; - for when in the Cabinet he believed that the' Noble and Learned Lod 'had not shewn himself a friend to Catholic emancipa tion. But the Noble and Learned Lord did not now hesitate to pronounce it tyranny, if Government ex pressed ail - solicitude that the - fundamental prin ciples of society itself should not be overturned by injudicious concessions. With respea to the necessity of Parliamentary grounds for the motion, the House must be persuaded that the Admieistration had lost the confidence of the country. Was the House so persuaded from the statements made by the ,NOble , Mover ? •Was the House satisfied that the present Government could not carry on the affiirs of the state with success? if so,- then ample grounds were afforded for the proposition.. But he would put it to the candour, to the judgment, and to the experience of the House to say, whether,' either bete or in the other branch of the Legislature, there was 'apps-' rently any difference of feeling in the country ; any distrust of the Goverriment as to call for the inter ference of Parliament ? It Was for the House•to pro nounce whether or, not the coediict of " Ministers ,was so criminal, so utterly destitute in action of tair principle, as to induce the adeption of a tiew step completely inimical to the principles of the Consti tution ? He should, therefore, unless it could be fairly shewn to him that such was the case, give his decided negative to the motion, and support the amendment. Luotion. • Lord EitsrerNE,ln explanation, denied that he had changed his opinions. - It -was, known when he was administrauon, that the grand obstacle to dealing. with 'Catholic Emancipation as now, was the im pra6lieability of effeeting objet. He in com mon with his coadjutors had acceded to the propo sition, but he. felt that if thee had , advancdd a 'step further, it tv ould traveled to a dissolution of the Administration of which he formed a part. (A Laugh) Noble Lords, might be inclined to laugh when he spoke of going ow of office, but they would abstain, if they knew the necessity of preparation before going in. The LORD CHANCELLOR conceived - that if the Noble and Learned. Lord 'thought that it was for the general benefit of the subject that he should take place,_ he Was.right ; bit if he thought that to advocate the cause of the Catholics as a means of at taining office was right, then he was wrong. If he could bring himself to be of the latter opinion he should vote fore he motion, bat he must be convinced that from the Revolution downwards the country had aCted on erroneous pi inciples. Every man who enter tained principles similar to those of the founder of the Revolution,ewho t.eld office upon opinions incompa tible with those principles, deserved public detesta tion., • His Noble Friend, in his introduatory obser vations on his motion, had taken great pains to convince the House that he had biought it for ward with the best of motives. No one could doubt the.assertioo. The Address - thep began with the most complimentary language to the Prince Re gent, noticed the freedom from restrictions, and the subsequent expedations entertained. in conse quence, and then went on to quarrel with the only ad which his Royal Highness had done sihce the restriction, and recommended the ne cessity of forming• an Administration calculated tO conciliate the-affedions of the greatest part of the subjects these realm's. The Noble Lord then went en to argue that. the present Administration did nut possess the affections of the people; and then, thotigh he does not recommend, wishes a broad botiowed Administration, which of 'all others, under circumstances, was the most mischievous thing that could happen. Noble Lords seethed to be pleased ; he was happy to give satisfaCtion, especially% he n Noble Lords were so prone to be out of humour .w hi) him for no cause. ' The Noble Lord had stated that those persons who had refused to take the Petitions_ of the Roman Catholics live consideration were ob noxious ; were an Administration, • not hkely to conciliate the affe&ions of the people. If so, he trusted, the Noble Lord would, alter he had turned that Adniioistration out, shcW to the a iouse where an Administration was to be found 'which, should conciliate the afnetions of the people. For his own part, lie did most solemnly 'believe, thlt the, people were so exceedingly weak and foolish, as to give the present Ministers much more of their ailed ionate re , gards than many Noble Lords would consent to ad mit. Would it be denied that the Prince Regent has the right of chusiog his, Ministers, subject', undoubtedly, to those - proper checks which the Constitution provides ?• -After those servapts have been,choen, then they became the responsible ad visers, and not befoe, or the Sovereign. His Noble and Learned Friend would, tleeetore, forgive him, if he said, that iu a strict Parliamentary sense, the debate on one of the letters alluded to was disorderly, because one of the standing orders of the House was, that his Majesty's name should not be mentioned in debate. It could not be used for Parliamentary influence, as was strewn by the Noble Lord's harangue, for half an hour, , oh the proceedings of the 13th *of February. The case must be a strong one indeed, which cotsld induce Parliament to interfere with the Crown, in . the nomination of its Ministers; such a proceeding would have the effect of destroying that responsibi lity in the Ministers which Noble Lords seemed so desirous to establish. It would. be too much to say, when his Royal Highness had in the'fitSt a 0 of his authority appointed his Ministers, that Parliament should go to him and say, " Your Royal Highness has appolited an Administrationevhich does not pos sess the confidence oft he.cotintry,nor the aff:•dions of the people, and therefore you must get rid of those Ministers." Thp Noble Lord had stated that Par liament had refused to take into consderaiion the Petitions of the subject. When, he would ask, did such a Reiolution pass ?' The Petitiens of the Catholics were not confornnable with the established priiiciplos of the Revolution in 1688. At that Revo lution, religious freedom and religious toleration, coilsisoint with national religion, were permitted to their fillkst extent. To say, iherefore, that th::1 sort of reiiginui olerdt ion, which was incompatible with the E-tabiisited Religion of the State, was to be admitted, was an algument which could not be trtdured. It must not .be forgott6n, that at the Revolutiop, the Crown was plated on the head of a Protestant. for ever. The question of emancpation had never been thought of by Mr, Pitt, and it was but in speeches in Parliament, and from publications elsewhere, that it had been comtnened upon. Securities had been talked of. Would thegionse tell him what these pro- posed securities were w The sentimes and opin:ons of Mr. Pitt he would wish engraved on his tomb. All that he required was a testimonial of his charaaer, to have thus written-,--" The Itiend of Mr. Pitt."— With respect to the sentiments of that illustrious man, all he could say was, that he died without be ing able to te.ll him what those securities.meant. If such was the opinion of Mr. Pitt, could he be blamed for not agreeing to the proposition ? .There was no wan more disposed than himself to concede when it could be shewn that such conceslion ...vas for le general interests of the State. Witp respea to re• state of the relations with .America, and the system pursued towards that country, that system was not really adoPted, it had been carried .on by the Giwernment immediately preceding the one now administering the affairs of the State. -He must therefore obj - e6t to the argument which held forth the .country as being . too tenack)us of . he-r ghts. On the contrary, she had invariably pre- _ . _ . . . served those rights with a proper . degree of reel ihgand respect to that nation, with whore it was necessary to be on amicable terms. The Noble and Learned Lord declared, that unless the Noble Lotd could spew him some cause for the distniswal , • of the present Ministers, he was convinced that he was iaterfering in a way petfealy unconstitu tional, and consequently he could not agree with the Earl GREY was not prepared to make a profession of political faith, however the Noble Lord might call upon him so to do. He would advert, as well as he was 'able,- to - all the topics which had been urged, and afford as well as he could an adequate explanation. Sentitnents had been imputed to him dirthly contrary to those principles. which Le had .. . . ever professed, and that misrepreSentation of :,,k hiCh be : complained might be -repeated. in a - . few d Ts, nay, wiihin,a few hours. He was anxious to wale h is opinioos upoo-tht question, not wishing to deny ___ :0 the Noble and Leaned Lord, that thj was sObstantilily—a motion for the change of the Adminiwation: He was convinced the Noble Loral conid not have intended it for any othei purpose,' nor could he Understand it in any other light,. The into tion of ,the Noble Lotd, therefore, was to,pro cure the dismissal of Mini Stets as not being the Mi nisters of the- country, and wishing by the address to procure an union of the abilities of the country, competent, to.direa the powers of the Empire, and the resources with benefit to the State. With this View he was not disposed to deny to the Noble and Learned Lord that the measure was a strong one.-- With sufficient grounds stated to Parliament, he con ceived that the Sovereign would listen to the suggei tion's of Parliament. It certainly was not a part of the proceedings of this House to nominate to the Crown the persons competent to form an• Admini stration : he had, however, till this .night, thought that , on the statement of sufficient grounds for re- moval,. an application from Parliament to remove Ministers was always attended to, and the more at this .important and momentous crisis of great dif ficulty and danger. The motion of the Nollse Lord was legitimate and lawful—that could not be denied; the question therefore would be, whether, in _the Address, the present Ministets had been truly de scribed as incapable of wielding the strength and re sources of the Empire, so necessary to its existence? The questions to be considered were, in the first place, whether the motion of the Address truly 'de scribed the Administration as in char:46ler and prin- ciples inimical to the public interest ? and, secbadly, whether those principles, and that charmer .thus recognized, could be maintained with s.ecurity and safety to the 'Empire, and without.endangeting the Establishment in Church and State ? Now, of what materiols .were they composed ? They were in • fad an Adminisirrition upon resistance. to Catholic Claims. What had.been the general conduct of the head'of that Administration since his elevation t o power ? \Vhy, an unqualified and eternal resistor), e to Catholic Emancipation, as tending to the ahsolote dtzstruttiou of all security in Church and State; that opposition, the Head ot. the Administration was ready to maintain, and to support the principle of eternal exclusion to all classes of his fellow subjeas. Wherever the Head weut the rest must 1011 1 w. - -- The Noble Secretary had said often, th it Parlia ment had' gone to the limit of cnnee,aion. The Noble atu Learned Lord had said that the fund - menial principles of the Constitution would forbid the - granting of the Claims. Would he state that he differed from the Head of the Administration in re spent to opinions upon the subjea? \VoulJ the new. addition to this strength in the Executive Government '(Lord Castlereagh),:,vould he, for he' w,as an eminent person in politics, world be dissent from his colleagues'? with such an Administration formed on principles to'resistCatholic Claims ? It had been said by a Noble Lord, that he had never heard of the denunciations (alluded to by his Noble Friend) against the Catholics. These denunciations had been frequent and loud' for the last thre'e weeks. They had proceeded from the pulpit in sermons, which on certain occasions had produced to the pre.i-cher much benefit. One of these Rev. Preachers had been lately Gazetted as one of the Prince Re gent's Private Chaplains.- These were strong and un deniable proofs of the intolerance of the present Ad ministration—of the pr(dite&ion for exclusion, corl,_ 7 trary to the genuine principles of the British Consti tution. The Noble and Learned Lord had said ftere was nothing so mischievous as 'what was generally vulgarly termed a broad-bottomed Administrat - on there certainly was nothing so, mischievous, when forming an Administration upon a liberal basis, a, to compose it of persons possessing discordant prin ciples, which could not in any wise coniribute to the safety or security of the'Empire. lie therefore was' disposed to give credit to the Noble and Learned Lord for not wishing to extend the Administiation upon a basis which should provide for the security 1 the Euipise. It tepotts were to b 4 credited, the present Administration were- to receive an aecessitna of strength which _perhaps they thought would bea refit the State. But what benefit cou;cl arise from . the conjunction of men who were the de ermined enemies of religious liberty, who professed to at upon principles of exclusion to Catholics ? There wereetwo Ts*Sreble Lords whom .he sae., who were reported as likely to give . strength to, , his weak Ad-. ministration. He did not know whether the de voted vietims to place had recei -ed from the Prime Miniver any communication of their intended dis. grace. But these two Noble Lords had professedly avowed determined . principles, of exclusion: One of the Noble Lords had revived the Coronation 0 th; as being an insupenble bar to the cliiims of, the . Cetholics being allowed. In short, at all points they had been armed with the cry of—No Popeiy.- WaS this an adminhitration coespeteet to an the purposes and objeas for which Administration was formed ? Was it not an Administration rather : oh-e nexious to the people ? Would seen an Admi , istration conciliate the seTeellons of the people i The necessity of conciliation was Fppare,nt. Much liad been ..said of the principles of tire Revolution ; he was, however, prepared to deny_ that tire rile ciples of the 'Revolution were such as now stated; the disabilities then imposed were ditlerent from three at present insisted upon ; those disabilities were connected with certeirt poiitical incepacitiea which preeented them from receiving what they dernanded. When the necessity for imposing these restraints seased, Alien to continue them became tyranhy at the very worst description. The question . to examine was, whether any danger was to be ap-. - preheaderi to the State, from the existence of these disabilities; or rather from nhe removal of them i? Sp.far from wishing to restrain the CarholiCs' from the exercise of their rights (as he would contend) in common with their fellow subjects, he was for ex tending to all classes,of the subjeasof these reAmit that emancipation from restriction which they were entitled to. What danger was to be apprehended ' from such concession ? He had the right' to a , k 016 Noble and Learned Lord to d hew where, the danger existed, before he was called upon to produce secu rity against !he existence of danger in the event of the rearm/al of the restrietions. rite danger existed in the continuation of these restriaions, which would deprive the Erupirc.of the assistance of nearly four millions of her population, which, if unrestrained; would contribute materially to the strength and ad vantage of the Stare. The Noble, and Learned Lord had said that Mr. Pitt, though he propos ed the Measure Of concession, was not enabed to tell him what the securities for the due per foemance of the agreement were. The fad was, that the expeaation was held out to the Catholic-, and therefore when the Noble Lord talked of nut bring able to ascertain what these securities were, be strewed that the condu6t of. Mr. Pat was a a mete prete; ce—a delusion held out. to deceive Parliament. When the Catholics had experienced from time to time various concessions, had they not the right to expec=t, in conformity with the promise held out to them, that further concession would he mide ? Had they not the right. to hope that they should ultimately obtain the fair object of their am bition ? Such had been the opinion of some of the most enlightened Statesmen. Mr., Fox, Mr. Butte, and some others had been of that opinion. In 1'793, and in 1795, these hopes had been held out, though in the follossieg years these hopes had been damped by the scenes of blood and torture which occurred, and which had not beets exceeded by the bore es of the French "Revolution—scenes which made every English heart bleed., The Union been obtained upon terms, which not being fulfilled, had operated to the disgrace of the country ; that measure had been carried into effed by the Catho lics, upon a direct understanding, that in the United ParliaMent their claims should be attended to.— If the House could put themselves in the sittraiion of the Catholics, with their expectations blasted, what would bea their feelings upon the occasion ? - Was, it matter of much surprise, that - discontent should arise ? Was it matter of astonishment, that finding themselves duped, they eilebited chagrin.? The expectation still remained,' and it was for the responsible advisers of the Prince Regent to, an swer, for he would not believe that his Royal High ness would induce hopes .which could never bo aealized. It could never be expected that the " new era" would be an era of bigotry and super tition. The proposition of the Noble Mover was to form an Administration that should conciliate the affections of the people. He doubted :ouch whether the people of En:;land were against Catho lic Emancipatioth He belieVed that if a new set of mess were called into power, the 'Measure would be carried with little difficulty. With rested to the letter signed by his Noble Friend and himself, they therin stated that they would not accept of office upon any other terms, than those that recommended the adoption of those measures of conciliation to the Catholic*, so necessary, in his opiniolr, to the safety of the State. The. very terms of it cut off the probability of jon&ion with the present Admi nistration. It was written not in the temper ct ex clusion for however warm he might be its political conflifl4, no man could accuse-hini of being subject to- political resentment. When ditferSmaes upon great political matters should cease, he would not be averse to unite, if such union could be advanta geous to the State. But he would ask Noble Lords opposite, did they really expel, that, with the views which he and his friends entertained, they could 'cordially join the present Administration, for ism Must take it for granted, that, being the consite tional advisers of his Royal Highness, they advised the letter which had been sent to his Noble Friend and himself ? He would ask them, with' feelings such as he and his Noble Friend possessed, would they have ,accepted offices upon those terms ? Would they consent to defeat all these expe'tations which the Catholics knew they were pledged to ? The Noble Lord then proceeded to discuss the to pics contained in the Address ,and with respea. to, America, he denied, if it was imputed him, that he would lay at the feet of America all the glory ref tire nation, by gi%itsg up her national rights. He telt most imperiously the necessity of preserving them. As to the circulation of the country, he was dispos ed to adhere to the opinion which he had always entertaiiied, that it was necessary to revert to those tine principles which in a free State were the essen tial requisites, and without which the trade of the country could not be placed upon its true basis. He would not therefore remain : a, Member of that Go vernment which declared that it was necessary to