The Sun. — London, England, 1812-06-16 00:00:00

r 1 1, 1 R Lt1,1,1'2"-;r•Tr. HOUSE Of ,L:TD After transacting. some routine business, ,their 1.4 orashipd resolVed into a Connnittee on the °Niers in Council, L•wd Vvrtlbinghaiu in the Chair. Marrvatt, M. P. was again introduced at the Bar, and _examined at considerable length. Mr. Garnett, merchant of Liverpool; was the _bet witness ; after proceeding for a short. time with his exalt - lin-it - ion, the House resumed, when Message was received from the . Commons, ?questing a conference' on the subject of the ,I l inendments made by their Lordships to the 'Vhitby Harbour Bill: In consequence, it was ordered by their Lori niPs, that the 'desired conference should take ce on Wednesday next, at four o'clock, in .the Ch ap.all er. , • The - Irish Loan Bill was brought up from the -,'°xlainons by- Sir Charles Banbury, and the Irish r)linty and Drawbacks Regulation Bill, by Sir Graham ; 'as were few private• Bills. The °ve were subsequently read a first time. b lt * as or d ere d, on th e :m o tion of the Earl of 410 ELyN, that, the - Commercial Documents Fe -1 etite u by Mr. Irving, On the Sth inst. be printed f ar the use of the Honse. -the Noble 'Earl noticed the non-production of t documents, which were,Ordered so 'far i`tek as the 21st of May ; these, With reference ° a very important, subject, their Lordships I v Quid soon have to' disanss ; it was desirable to v e them before thellouSe as soon as possible. He q e refore moved that the accounts ordered on the , of - May shohld be presented forthwith, which ocdered accordingly. 0 :a the motion of the Earl of LAUDERDALE, .t , Orders for going" into : : a. Committee of the 404 eliouSe on the InSolvent Debtors Pill, were Postptined till Wechicsday.y Earl of HaT.l.nowi'v...nioved to. postpone e consid e r a ti on of the , RepOrt of the' Curates' b' e gatation Bill till 'Wednesday, when, he said, shOuld propose that 'the Bill be committed, , ith view to' its fuller consideration , . The Re- . ( 7' ll was ordered to. be taken into consideration Wednesday, accordingly. On Motion of the Earl - of LIVERPOOL, the tk . Local' Militia Billwas ordered to be read a tim e on Wednesday. r0 ., 1 heir Lordships then resolved into a Com til:tee on th e O r de r s in C o uncil, and th e examina .ll of* Mr. Garnett was concluded. 2 -I r. Martin, merchant and insurance broker, of so °n, -w 4 s the third witness, and was examined . 4t , s° tac length. a., he Peers who conducted the examination this ;LY , were the Earls of CtancaAy and. Galloway, aa l t he part of Ministers', and 4 - Earls of Lauder aad Roslyn on the side of 'the Opposition.' 4he Hou s e" resuming, the C om mitt e e was di 'l4 to - sit again at half past two' ,o"clock on, e4 aesday, and their 'Lordships adjourned. till tu siliorfo ROUSE 01? COMMONS—AIo NDAY. ~lr Q brought in a Bill to enable the t .Mcers of t h e R oya l M ar i nd on f ore i gn sta I °ns to draw on the Paymaster of Marines for a D a rt of their pay.—Read a first time and ordered `) be read a second time on iThUrsday. C / 2 the motion of. Mr. BaonoriAm, an account ordered to be laid before the House of the iTilbcr of ship s . cleared out from the port of front 1804 to ISI2. B ,,, La ra JOCtLYII appeared at the Bar, with. an er§ to v ar io us addresses of the House for the i e Port •of the Coinmissioners for Queen Anne'S the,pardon or reprieve granted to Walter 1 1 , 411 ,. in Ireland, for Murder, Bic. announcing that t o ß oValHighness w ou ld c a u s e th e p ro p er o ffiCe rs the same before the House.- ?‘he t,4 Gen era l E nc l osure Bill was recomm it te d ; 41 the Report was or d ere d t o b e rece i ve d 'tat orrow. IfoRNER intimated his intention after the 1 1A c Ption of th e R e p ort; to move 'that the Bill ' printed. SINECURE BILL. e r • BA.NP:rs moved the Third Reading of the li eeure Bill: t ro - '! • W. DUNDAS opposed the Bill on Pus former t 'nds as inefficient and, illusory. It would, a ve the country nothing,_and would be.most I ta ` to many indi v id u al s ; particularly in the in- Ties of the Great and Privy Seal of Scotland. Of i t ' W. FITZGERALD Obyieted to the Schedule ace s in Bill, as interfering unjustly with . several , in Ireland, such as Constable of the Car t•°f Li k Clerks and: Officers of the Per ilt 0 meric , t} le gm. His opinion on the principle of V tit -QI remained unaltered ; although, after the of the House, he should think himself pre- Ptuons in offering his sentiments-upon it. tll at °lll CAsTLEnzAnn.dealared that he still thought to; t he advantages to be derived from the Inea \,„ii`i_ 'were as nothing compared' with • the evils which it was pregnant. The Bill also 4 . , 01111 ded with technical errors, and if. passed in 5 4 Pre s_ent state, would be proilactive.of great in tti:ehiences. As, however, the Bill had re ved the former sanction of the HOnse he would Freg take the sense,of the House upon it: on the ‘ e rit occasion. 1 4 ' PONSOyBY obje'cted to the clause respect 'l1- I.e Pension List o f Ireland:. , ‘ • '.;• W. POLE coincided with the Right Hon. der who had just • spoi“..n, and expressed disapprobation of the principle of -the Si NEwrozi 'defended the clause respectinglie Pensio n List, and called thc attention of the 2evcr:il gross deviations from the civil 1 7 1. Act of Ireland. of Poogn highly approved of the principle t el `, ll e objected to that part of it which . 4\ i"(l to C ourts o f J ust i ce. I. BRowN,. as . he ,considered the Bill as a n 1j to to the Country. of the intention of the fo t lis !' to carry into effect an economical Tefonn, j , sincli ner t t o s t ate any objectiop,; but he re t;ocied to find, 'th a t i n ' t h e sc h e d u l e was in "e't the o ce Ili .0 f King's Advocate in the Co- I%s Mr. tAilitin intinlated that that aftc:t *AS omitted.. Mr. BROWN observed, that it was nut so in the copy which he bad received: Mr. COITRTENAY and Mr. MARTIN (of Galwa) objected to various parts of the detail of the Bill, and protested against it, as an unconstitutional Incas are. Lord Coditu•ANE stated it to be his intention to move an Amendment, to omit the•words ." from and after the expiration of the existing interest legally vested in ofEees,". for the purpose of in,- troducing the words "from the passing of this PAL" in order to :empower the Sovereign imme diately to reward public merit in a constitutional mannet. It was, also his intention to propose, that for 2 or SOM. named in the Bill for the re ward- of certain public servants, a smaller sum should be there inserted. He then moved, " that the Bill fie re-committed." • The SPEAKER said, it was unusual to re-commit a Bill in. tivt stacte ' after it was engrossed. lithe t House thought it'necessary to make any amend ments in it, , such amendments could be moved after the third reading. • Mr. A: BARING objected to that part of the Bill which gave the Crown the power of 'rewarding the services of JUdges with pensions, the amount of which was unlimited. .1-le. would propose,. that the pensions to be granted to 'fudges should be in proportion to their existing salaries. - Lord BINNING protested against the conso lidation of the Great Seal, the Privy Seal, and the Signet of . Scotland, Which the Bill t: ant to affect. - : He could neither consent to their be ing thrown into one, nor to their being abo lished. Mr. BANKES, in reply, went over the argu ments which had been, urged against the mea snre, and defended the - general provisions of the Bill. The SPEAKER felt it his duty to observe, that the recommendation of the Crown was not ne cessary, in his opinion, before the third reading of the Bi.l, on account of its affecting the Civil List hereditary revenues, &c. ; but it would be inconsistent with the practice of that House for a hundred years, to pass the Bill without the re commendation of the Crown, unless some amend ment .were made to take away that which had 'been spoken of. The Bill was read a third time Mr. BANxEs then brought - it - La clause to.exempt the pres.ent officers of the Courts . of King's Bench and Common Ptea - s, • and- other officers, from its operation. Mr. LOCKHART declared this clause had taken away ail his objections to the Bill. Sir W. CURTIS moved a clause to prevent- the operation of the Bill extending to the Omit of tke Lord Mayor and Aldermen, and other Courts in the City of London. Mr. WROTTESLEY opposed the clause. He knew of no ground on which such an exemp tion could be claimed by ) the City of London-. He thought the Cursitors in Chancery had at least an equal right to be exempted from the operation of the A • Sir W. CURTIS defended the clause. The question was put on the - clause, and'carried. Lord COCHRANE proposed his amendment. The question was put and this motion lost. 'Mr, MARTIN (Or Galway) objected to the lan guage of tile Bill in one part;--that. Where it gave,a pension to public servants, " provided they wanted such assistance." This he contended was improper, as whether the individual who had served his country did or did not stand in need of assistance, a pension for his services was ho-: nourable. Stfch a provision as that to which he objected in the Bill, went to cast . a reflection on those who might avail-themselves of such assist ance. It went to place a servant of the public in the situation of the apothecary in • Romeo and Juliet. It seemed to say, 'when he took such reward—, • . _ • " 11fy poverty, but not my will, consents 7 He therefore moved the omission of the words " provided they want such assistance." A division took place on Mr. Martin's Amend ment, when we understood the numbers to be In favour of the Amendment 64 Against it s'2 • Majority • in favour —l4 Mr. WROTTESLEY, after the course which the Bill ,had taken, felt it •to be his duty to move' a claule for exempting- the Cursitors in Chancery from the operation of the Biil. Mr. W. FITZGERALD moved an. Amendment respecting the further regulating the Irish Pension List, • Mr. IlusxissoN objected to the amendment, as tending to distresS Ireland, already incapable of paying. her debt in consequence of the heavy charges on the Establishment. • Sir J.,NEWPORT 'concurred in opinion with lilt /lon. Gentleman, and stated that thejtevenue was deficient half a million sterling. _ _ __- • After some observations fi:oni Mr. W. FITZ GERALD, the House divided on the amendment. For it an Against it . 59 Majority —1 On our re-admission to the gallery, we found that a proposition had been made for postponing the further consideration of the Bill till to-mor row. At length, after some remarks by Mr. WYNNE and Sir J. NEwroicr, the further consi deration, on the motion of the. CHANCELLOR of the ExcHio.uEß, was deferred till Wednesday. COLONEL AVNIAIION. Lord CASTLEREAGH, not seeing an Min. Gen tleman in'hiz place who had brought forward the subject Of•the appOintment of an Hon. Member, to be Private Secretary to the Prince Regent; 'and had fixed a day for-the dismission of that subject, as far as it, respected the salary of tine office, was authorised to acquaint the Hon. Gentleman, and the House, that his Royal Highness the Prince Regent bad been graciously pleased to signify hiS . desire, that the salary of that officer shall be paid out of the Revenues of the Privy PiirSe.—The No ble Lord thought, after this communication, the Hon. Gentleman would, not press his motion ; and trusted, therefore, that as he waS . not present, some of his friends would communicate to him the information. Mr. PONSONBY, inn the absence of his rion. Friend, would take' upon himself to statd to the _that It was tot Lis Intention to s press the inotio;). - - EXPLAN.II.TON ON THE HOUSEHOLD. Zr. S t i:Ritil)l74 rose merely to nive notice; hot • on Wedueoolay suoinit a motion to • the !louse, by way • of affordina,an opportunity fer sonie explanations on point" 4"; in which his in dividual character was deeply concerned.:—(Hear, hear),---No'one had el - di t etn Loove anxious than he had been to stand fair in public opinion;- and no one, be trusted, bad ever :been more ready, and more able to .vindicate and protect his own honour, The motion he would on that day sub mit to the House would •naturally produce , so:Le further information .on late newiciations, which was Much desired. "t am sure," said Mr. Sheridan; ." there is no man, who heirs me, and who estimates at the high rate 'which I do, the sanction of public opinion, or wile v:.=.lkies hi&.:own honour and character, as, I am sure, every Mem ber of this House does equally' with, myseif, who must not have expected that, 'after the. late re ferences and allusions avade with regard to-me in my absence, but oois.. - feel that I am called Upon to take the earliest occasion of explaining every tbinx touched upon in these allusions. .f hare accordinglygiven notice, that on Wednesday next I shall submit to the House a !notion, which will afford an opportunity fot this explanation, I do this, not unaware of the important business fixed for that day; but I do it with the consent of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, given in confidence, that after that statement has been heard, _ there will not , exist a matt, - in the shape and forM of a Gentleman, who will countenance, in any quarter, the slighteit implication (Sr doubt on my character and conduct, throughout 'the whole of these transactions." The . PAH of Sc ARMOUTiI expressed a wish to offer a few observations. lie, trusted that he should not be considered h.s infringing Upon the . usages of Parliament if he endeavoured - to re-state what he had offered to the House on the evening alluded . to. On that evening he certainly fanCied, When le 'Made ;the -statement, that he saw the Right ,lion. Gentleman' in his plaee. Understand ing that he was mistaken, he would, if the House pleased, re-state to lira what he had then stated. (Go on, go 'oh.) 7 --The Noble Lord then obsered, that he considered himself as one' of " the whole public." and as an indiVidual Member of that public he was justified in guarding himself against any finis statement and Misconception; and would re-state what he then said.- 7 (G9on, go 0n.),---He Would therefore . begin, with expressing his grati tude first to the House; for their indulgence in listening to 'what he was about to re-state, pro mising, that in' that re-statement • he would not use any surplusage ; and, secondly,• that he would not offend the constitutional jealousy of the Right Hon., Gentleman. On that night he had stated, and he regretted,that what he then said had not been heard by all, that it was the intention'on the part of a great portion of the Household, to resign their situations in the event of certain persons coming into the Administration. On that occa- , sion be had stated, not that they would wait to be turned out, ,but that they were determined to resign, not if a change of measures was to take place, but that if a change of men merely was to be the result .of the.negociations. The persons so determined were the three Great Officers of the HousehOld, and that determination was come to individually, within 24 hours; without the one stating to the other his determination ; he 'also stated that it was determined that a communica tion to the effect stated should be made to the great Political Chiefs. He further stated, that the determination on the part of all was firm ; 'that there was aiOt a' contrariety of opiiiion on the subject; 'that the matter being made known. to the Right Honourable Gentleman, he (Mr. S.) came to the Noble Lord to a 'place where they usually met, and said, " I hear yhu are all going to resign. Da not take such a step. Let me ad-. vise you as an old friend to'reconsider your deter mination, and we'll talk about it another The opinion of the Rigilt HOnourable Gentleman having some, weight ,With the • Nuble. i ord, he did consent -tri reconsider the matter; and the next day was fixed for farther chn'. - ersation ; the Right-lion. Gentleman came Co the place appoint.: ed i bnt.froM some mistake ? either Of the hour of :appointment, or from some other 'chase, he • (Lord - 1 7 ) Was gone Ont, and did not meet the ,fight Holt: Gentleinan, but subsequently--:: Mr. SHERIDAN here rose 'to .order ; observing, that it was .not his wish to stop any explanation, but when he had given dotice fia Wednesday, every person might then give an opinion . on his conduct,; and the conduct of ,the con cerned ; he thought premature. discussion would be irregular. S - He trusted to the honour of. the Noble Lordto abstain from the discussion at pre sent. At the same time, should it he the pleti +are of the House to listen. to the Noble Lord, he hoped they Would also indulge him with - ,'ermis- Sion to reply, -and if that permission was grouted to kiln, no doubt that :every Gentleman present would claim a similar indulgence. The Earl oc, NrApiothru had no wishAo pro ceed—he would wait for the opportunity on Wed nesday of explaining what -he had said, and then he was satisfied there could be no possible differ ence of opinion as to what had really passed. • Here the conversation closed. , The Committee on the Highway Bill was post -pone 4 till Friday. SUPPLY. .The CnAscntr-on of the EXCHECILTER moved the House to go into a Cqmmittee of Supply.. Previous to which, .IVr. HtTsKtssoN moved - for a variety of tapers on the.subject of Foreign Im portations, which were ordered. . - On the Motion of Mr. W. POLE, it was order ed„that there be an instruction g iven to the Com mittee for an allowance to be made to the Coin mi.,sioners appointo to inquire into the reduc tion of the Offices in Ireland, &c. The various Estimates of the Army Extraorcii naries, &c. were referred to the,Committe;:, and then the House went into a Committee. EAST INDIA LOAN. in the CoMmittee, Mr. WAaACZ, in pursuance of the notice which 'he had given, proposed a grant to the East India Company. The Right Hon. Gentleman,, entered into a short statement of the COMpiiny's 'affairs; m4intaining that the difficulties in which they are placed, are ascribable to th part which the. Companyvhave taken, in carrying on a contest at their own expense in the Fast fOr the benefit of this country. He shonkl at present avoid-entering into a commercial state ment of their affairs, as all the Papers.were not ready to be laid tfefore the House. The difti-ul ties under which they laboured, arose in ,!se quence of what he had stated, and the necessity of paying the bills for those expenses.' here. . was every probability of insuring peace and tran quility to our possessions in the East. The flight lion. Gent. made a -variety of numerical state ments- to shety'that out of the sum now pro= posed as a loan; namely, 2,500,0001. in fact only \ 900,0001. would-be lent to the Company, the re sidue .being actually owing to• them from the . public for the expenses . of the war iu India ; put he further she:wed that they had property tde quate, as security either in their own warelmeses or coming home, - to treble the amount. • When the great ,question of the Chapter came for dis ciiseicn next Session, hehoped the aspect of their affairs would be satisfactory to the House :m.. to the -country. He concluded with moving " that a sum not exceeding 2,500,0002 be granted . to his Majesty to enable him . to make good the like sum to be advanced to the East India Company,. tinder their present circumstances." On tLz question being put, - CREF,VEY insisted tint There was a sin gle document befGre theHouse,;on which to guide their decision in respect to the s•aro. now demand ed. He contended, that before the money was voted, the Report of the Committee above stairs, to wham the Petition was referre:i, should be laid on the Table. The Company, he contended, was fifteen millions worse than nothi;:g ; and,thongh the East India Directors and the Ledies and i3en tlemen who held stock might think all went on very well, the commercial interests Of the coun try Thought otherwise and ex-:::ry one must see the propriety of investigating the state of their affairs before- they agreed to_ the proposition before the House. Mr. RORERT THORNTON expressed a hope that the Hon. Gentleman would not find, Upon- itrves .tigation, thil the East India Company's affairs were in so desperate a state as he had ventured to asSert. Though, like all other botlies, they might beexpected to die, still, he trusted, that, accord ing to the Spanish proverb, they would live a thousand'years. At present; they requhed but a temporary accommodation, and they had proved thenrelves, in former transactions, to be deserving of it. The surprise in his mind was, that, under the Charter ; they had done so ,much—they had conquered every thing that was to be conquered, and were now in quiet possession of a country 'producing sixteen millions a-year. He rejoiced at the prospect of an investigation into the COM pany's afThirs. The money way: rendered necessary by no commercial blunder, bat "by tie prosecu-, tion of the war. Sir T. TURTON entered into some general ar guments - against the (4 ;duct of the British. Go vernment in India, and insisted strongly on the necessity of settling accounts with the Company before they proceeded in any further vote. Mr. GRANT contended, that the India Company at present owed the Government nothing for any past loan. The necessity of the loan now applied for arose from debts contracted, not' in commerce, but in, war, and of course territorial: The . Ob ject was to. render' - money borrowed 'and at pre sent payable ia India payable in 'England. Their eOramerce was carried on at less' ex pence, and at rather more' prOtit, than that of individuals. Mr. HUSKISSON thought , that a sinking fund should be created, bearing Such a, proportion to the sum to be borrowed, as would meet the debt before the expiration of the Charter;'. ' The eirANC..s - ELLOit of the ExcnEntrEn assured the Honourable Gentleman that the suggestion he had thrown Out had 'not escaped the attention . of Government.. lie agreed hi the' nedessity of a Sinking }fund sonconstituied. The sum required w s only a temporary accommodation; and the obiect was to transfer the debt from India to Eng when it would be chargeable with allower rate of interest: The saving Which would accrue by this - means would, in his opinion, create a sinking fund sufficient to redeem the principal in a few years. After some farther discussion, - in, which Mr. Hail, M. Walime, and Mr. W. &Intl' partici patd, the resolc,tion was agreed to. ARMY EXTiIAORDINARIES.. The CHANCELLOR of the Ik:CHEQ.UPaR moved the following grants : To defnly the Expenses of Idle Army Extracrd% narie.s, at home, To defray the Ex'penges of tile Army Extraordi- 2,301,455 tiarie, , , abroad 5 5 V)0,000 • Both resolutions, after stime discussion, were agreed to without a 'division. Mr. •W. POLE moved the grant of 15,0001.. to the Irish 'Commissioners of Inviry.,--A:greed. to. • Several smaller grants were moyed, and voted withmit oppositims. The Report o(' the Committee.was ordered:to be•received,to-morrow. WAYS AND MEANS. In a Committee of Ways and Means, the Pay and eloathing, of the Militia, WeCe. ovderett to be defrayed out of the Laud ta:!:.---Report to- Tinorro st. • The other Orders and Notices were postponed. Adjourned at tiqlf-past Twelve o'Clock. Sir GEORGE STAUNTON, who attended Lartt MAcARTNLY On his etnbassy into China, relates the following curious i. - neccibte of old _i;laN LONG., Emperor or was inquiring. of • Sir U. the Manner. in which physicians were paid in Eng land ; when after some difficulty Altje.-.ity was made. to comprehend the sy,-,tem, he exclaimed,-- i s any, man well in ..fngialitt that can afibrd he ill .t",:hrA , I will inform yOu,7 sz , ..id he, . ." how manage my physicians 1 have four, to whom the care of my health is committed J. a certain .weekly salary is allowed them ; hut the Moment that .1 am ill, the salary stops-tiU I anz welt cie;%:.n. need not inform you my illnesses are, usually short.' EDIVARD servNit to Cant.' HorKIN NORTILLEY, of Welbeek-stre t, War, throltn from his master's hoi•se,,at Kensington, c.a trild kite - dof the spot. by fracturing his