The Sun. — London, England, 1837-12-08 00:00:00

en orga-lised system of misrepresentation—be was not sure that some of the obscure • papers in Ireland were not under. the pay cf thoss gentlemen, and ho was not sure that •it was nut their business to supply the grossest misrepresentations or facts, b: . Isehoeds which had no: existence except in the brain of thcs, aho originated them. He was not sure that some of these persons would not be found receiving a portion of this fun t. He was anxious to state what was the true cause of the !striking results that attendedalre-lare election. Three-fourths of the Irish Members were returned in opposition to the ' views and the tei,hes pfalie Hon.. Gentlemen opposite. This hid not been done by - intimidation, by fictitious votes, or by bribery. , The Hon. Baronet bad given a similar statement respectieg - .the Eaglish - eleetions, and he ought to know how they had been , :conducted. It was the declaration of Lord .7Lyndtiorst; acting in the capacity of leader of the party, wrich, he was sorry to say, was so numerous on the other side of -taus House—ii was that Ncla!e Lord'. declaration, never re tracted. but pei.vered in for three years. It was the fear that if he and party got into power they would act upon ,t' e poliey thus implied, and upon which policy they coninued tc act as fir iis th..y cou'd'—a Ras this which induced every Crtholic in Irelawl, from the Nobleman to. the peasant, the Clergy as well as the laity, to rise with a common impulse, and resist those candidates who presented themselves as the tiger's of that policy. H e would take the liberty of calling rhe attention of the House to the effect of encouraging such subscriptions, aria would ask whether it was possible to devise any proceedings more calculated to draw forth the bitterest animosley? - Whcn the qu-stion of the Repeal. cf the Union • was agitated in Ireland he did all be could teed'sceurage, and he oppese.d it in Parliament. But he must sa: that no argu ments hal ever been usA- by the advocates of that measure which coul,l oper a te so powerfully upon the minds of the people of Lelend, or upon his mind, as those subscriptions to d e f e at 'the return . of Irish Members. There was not one of these arguments which' such a proceeding would not justify. If the people of Ireland did not feel confidence in the present Go ye-Ist:lent of that country he would not answer fur a continu ance of the connection between England and Ireland.—( A laugh.) This question should not be viewed as it related to Ireland alone. There was perhaps no ground at the present time, and in the present House of Common 7, to apprehend the possible evils that might anise ; but suppose the House of Commons to become more corrupt, was it impossible that the direct force of money might be employed to act u; on Members that House ? Put the case of the Bank of England or of the - fast India Company desiring a renewal of their Charter upon more advantageous terms. Supposing at the same time that the parties on .each side were nearly balanced upon the question, was it impossible to conceive that an at. tempt might be made to secure a majority by the application of a fund raised by subscription ?—(ll.3ar. ) He came now to that part of the proceeding with respect to which he had most right to complain. The Honourable Baronet opposite ( SirFs. Burdett) the Member for North Wilts wrote a letter to Mr. Spottiswoode, which he should beg leave to read to the House : " TO A. SPOTTISWOODE, ESQ. " Sir,—lt was my intention to have announced myself this day in the House of Commons as one of your gang ;' but I find the motion that relates to it is deferred until the 6 , h of next month, and I thank it very possible that it may be put off altogether ; and that, although Mr. O'Connell has pledgad himself to prosecute the subject, he may also drop it, as I cinnot have the same confidence in his word that the Prince of Denmark had in that of the Ghost, although poor Mr. Raphael took it for double the amount. I now, therefore, in order to secure to myself the honour of beimg one of the gang' of seeing justice done both to Ireland and England, by subscribing to A fund intended to defray the necessary expenses for that purpose, and in order to make my wish as public as possible, take the liberty thus to address you, and to request the Editor of the Times to transmit to you my subscription of 201. —I remain, Sir, you most obedient humble servant, " FRANCIS BURDETT. " St. James's-place, Nov. 29. The Hon. Baronet had, of late, become very fond of quoting Shakspeare. The Hon. Baronet must be aware that he was liable to serve upon the Election Committee that might be appointed to try his return. He must serve under the obliga tion-of an oath.—(Hear.) With the feelings which he had expressed in that letter, was he a fit judge in such a case?—. ( Hen. cheers.) It had been mentioned to him that the Hen. Baronet did not pay the whole of his subscription; that he meant to pay it in instalments : because, if the case wat decided early enough by a Committee, then the Hon. Baronet might save. part of his money, if any unexpended re serve remain to be disposed of.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Opposition.) He did not say that such was the case. He heard so. In fact, the Honourable Baronet recommended 2uch a course at a public meeting, and it was not unreasonable to conclude that he would do himself what he recommended to others. Now, could the Hon. Baronet under such circumstances become, in fairness, a judge in his case ? There were many Members in that House subscribers to the fund for supporting the petition against his return. Would any one say they were fit. judges in his case ? Would any Gentleman opposite say so ?—( Hear, hear.) Suppose a combination entered into and a subscription raised to the amount of two hundred thousand pounds to oppose the return of Hon. Members for Ireland. They might. under some circumstances, effect the object of their combination more easily by giving a sum of 5001. directly to the sitting Member, on the condition (so we understood)* that he should not oppose a petition. Now, in such a case, would not the House of Commons be competent to make any in quiry upon the subject? Was it to be said that a Committee might inquire into a conversation said to be held by the Member for Tipperary, and that they were excluded from all inquiry into conversations of this kind ? Even if the appointment of a Committee could, under the Gren. ville Act, afford no remedy, still if the result was merely to discountenance such a course would it not be a great be nefit? Supposing they determined that there was no law against it, he could not give up the expectation that it would tend much to put an end to such proceedings till some more effectual remedy could be devised. He saw no reason why a Committee should not decide one way or another in this case a; well as in any other. He hoped that both sides of the House would agree in the course he should propose; that they would not treat this as a party question.—( Cheers from the Opposition.) Were Gentlemen opposite disposed to act in a spirit of fair play ?—( Repeated cheers.) Would it he acting in a spirit of fair play if they refused to support his motion ? He would conclude by leaving it to the House to decide the matter either as a question of privilege or any other w..y they might judge most advisable. The Hon. Member co ,eluded by moving for a Select Committee to inquire i ito the allegations of petition. Mr. E. L. BULWER said it was only an hour back that he had been requested by his Honourable Friend to so 'end this motion. He did not deny that there, might be occasions in which a person opposed in politics to another might still enter into a subscription of this kind. He could not, however, disguise from himself that the Hon. Baronet ( Sir F. Burdett) gave the sanction of his name to a subscription which might possibly have the effect of placing hi a in the situation of accuser rnd judge—(Hear)—in which the same individual might be prosecutor to-day and judge to morrow. He was not disposed to visit a person to acting with punishment---( A laugh from the Opposition)—but the House must, by their vote that night, determine whether the subscri ber to such a fund ought to be Judge in the case in which he must also be considered as prosecutor. He put it to their eommoe sense of justice and honour whether this was fair, whether both the theory and the practice of the Constitution ma; not against it? The spirit of the Constitution wls, do not condemn a man before you have determined on his guilt. This was a principle which he apprehended neither the Hun. Baro net nor any other person could deny ; but the question be- ' came infinitely of greater importance, when it was proposed, in effect, to disfranchise a nation. disregarding a principle oh erved is every other ewe. There was not a swindl..r, thief, or a murderer who did not claim the right, and to whom the right was not extended, of not having his case pre judged. But their jouraals, their pamphlets, their pharisaical columns of subscribers, refused that justice to Members of the House of Commons which was never refused to the most ob scure and the most abandoned of criminals . . The Hon. Baronet the Member for-North Wilts said it was unheard of in Parlia ment to censure such a proceeding. The Hon. Baronet him self was the very last man in the House who should say so. The Hon. Baronet could, no docile, carry his recollection so far back as thirty-five years. Now, by a singulai coincidence, it happened that on the 6th of December, thirty-five years beck, a petition was pres.nted in that House, con - Qlaiiiing of the re.: turn of the sitting Member for the county of Middlesex. Sub scripti , ns had been entered into to support this petition, to de fray the expenses that might be incurred before a Committee. Upon that occasion an Hon. Baronet ro;e in his place and said, " There cannot be two opinions —( Ministerial cheers)—that to enter into a subscription to support a petition was highly imp,ot,er, and liable to objection, as tending manifestly to pre judge the ca,e—(Cheers)—and to prejudice the minds of these who might after become the Judges of it."—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Baronet then proposed this resolution :—" That to subscribe money to support a petition which may be pending in this House is a breach of privilege."—(Tremendoue cheers from the Minis terial benches.) Now, eha made this complaint, ani who proposed this resolution ? The Hon. Member for North Wilts, Sir Francis Burdett.—( Loud cheers from the Millie -aerial benches.) He ( Mr. Bulwer) once heard of an old wan who, on the condi.ien of bei ig restored to youth, agreed to give up his whole personal identity, all remembrance of the past, all old frienris, all early connections, all former opinions, all early attachments. This was the very situation of the Hun. Ba. -'net, with the slight deduction that he had not yet received yo..th in exchange.—( Loud cheers.) The lion. Baronet for,r,ot all past event;, relinquished all form' r opinions, lost ill former friends, and loaf, he was sorry to say, all his fair public name. Let the House obserse the dul . ..•rence of criminality in both c iscs, in the sul,scriptioi against the Middlesex petiloi and in that against: the returns for Ireland. In the former they who were subscribers were all electors. In the latter the subscribers were not elector;. In the present inqinee the Hon. Mcmhc'r for Limerick only moved for a Committee of Inquiry into the real circumstances of the case. What appeared to Lim (Mr. Bulwer) to be the worst feature in these proceed,ncrs wiv, that the whole object of the subscriptions was directed against ode part of the empire.—( Hear, hear.) They bad had contests botb in England and in Scotland.—( Ilear, hear.) Petitions had been presented against Membe:-3 suppose,' to be unduly r-turned for places in both parts of the Kingdom ; • and yet not a single shilling of these subscriptions was intended to be devoted to them.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial si.le.) But all the resources of party malignity were brought to bear against the private fortunes of Irish Representat'ves. And th:s was called justice to Ireland.,-(Loud cheers ) This was whit was culled the preservation of the Union I -Cheers.) Were England and Ireland one king dom ? (Near, hear.) If so, how could Gentlemen oprosite unite foe Pe purpose of overbearing the votes of the Me era of one part of that kingdom by a system, the_ whole ohj. cf whi,•ll was directed against a body of men, not because they. were political opponents, but because they were the repre sentatives of Ireland.—( Cheers.) He eos wished to address a few observations to the Right Hon. Baronet the Meritle-r for Tamworth. For that Right Hon. Gentleman he had ever entertained a high opinion as a eanscientious poli tical opponeet, and he now asked him whether Le ap• proved of the olket and application of these moneys ? ( Hear. )—lf -the Right Hon nurable Baronet could not exo net the Hon. Member for North Wiltshire, and thought that these subscriptions would a-'d no moral strength to his party, let 11m ask him why he inisted on preserving just long enough life to the sys-em to afford an acknowledgment of the malignity of party ?—( Loud cheers.) When the present state of patties was taken into consideration, and when it was not impossible that be might, at no very distant period, resume hi • position as Pri.,-ne Minister of this country, it did appear to hint ( Mr. Buller) to be nothing mnre than what wag fair and just towards Ireland that. she should know whether it w s such means as these that the Right Hen. Gentleman would maintain the power of his Government—(Cheers)—and who tit's. the ►epresentatives of the one-third part of this emi.ire were to continue to be thus put up to auction—( Loud cheers)--and candidates to be intimidated ale] deterred from corning forward by the adoption of means intended to ruin their characters ?—( Hear, hear.) He thought, too, that the Noble Lord the leader of that House ous_•ht to come boldly forward and protect his representative. The Noble Lord had ever been the consistent advocate of religious liberty anti toleration, and these suhscripti , ms were peculiarly dir,eted against t!;e religious liberties of the Irish people. —( hear.) They came from the same party that refused a Mayor an l C.rioration to list' communities —( Cheers)—from a party which would now be.satisfied with nothing leis than a wholesale disfranchisement of the Irish people.—( Cheers. ) On the question b.ing put from the Chair, a rathri u.testr. l , circumstance occurred. No Hon. Member rose on either side, and the eries of " Divide" were loud and frequent. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but. within two minutes afterwards the gallery was reopened, when S:r W. FOLLETT rose and said—When the lion. Mem ber for Limerick said that the circumstance of a le dy of pe sens wlio were not his constituents, nor localli connected with the con- ty which he represented.. presu.ring to question the legality of his return, was a breach of privilege, h, ( Sir W. Follett) tYd think it was the pa: t either of sonic Member of her Majesty's Government, or of one of the law officers of the Crown to condescend to state to the House whether it was either unconstitutional or a breach of the privileges of Par liament for any part of the people or constituencies of this empire to subscribe or associate for the purpose of bringing be fore a legal and constitutional tribunal the right of persons returned to act as representatives of the people in that House.— ( Loud cheers.) He would, if that was the question—if it was in reality cantended that such proceedings were unconstitutional or illegal—at once enter his protest against such a supposi tion—( Great cheering from the Opposition benches) —and he would like to know when it was that her Msjesty's Attorney General, or the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home De partment, first discovered their illegality.—( Immense cheer ' ing.) He could not help thinking that it was some ' thing in the peculiar state of parties at the present mo ment—something in the peculiar position of the Govern ment —some latent suspicion.of infirmity in the titles of their supporters—( Loud cheers)—which had induced them to dis cover illegality in a practice which had prevailed longer than the period to which their memories could carry them back, and existed, perhaps, as long as Parliament itself.—( Cheers. ) Had not any Member of Parliament full and unfettered power to legislate, not only upon matters affecting the general in terests of the country, but even upon the local and:personal in terests of every town or village of the kingdom ?—( Cheers.) He could no longer, then, listen with patience to the doctrine that it was unconstitutional to subscribe in support of petitions to refer the question of the validity of the returns to that House, to the proper tribunal appointed to decide upon it.— (Cheers.) He knew no time of party excitement and ani mosity that had not been witness of similar practices. Before he himself entered the House as a Member he had used his best exertions to promote the return of a Noble Friend of his for the county cf Dorset, in 1831. The Noble Lord"was returned ; but he had no sooner become a Member than no tices and placards were issued from a Committee sitting in London—( Hear, hear)—calling upon the Reformers of the United Kingdom to come forward and subscribe in aid of a petition to unseat his Noble Friend.—(Hear, ;hear.) That petition was presented, although the cause of the opposition' to the Noble Lord's return was most - frivolous and unfounded. But who were the Members of that Committee ?—( Hear,hear.) He should like to know if the Noble Lord the Member for North Devon was in the House or not ?—( Loud cheers.) If he was, would he now say anything more about the same men being both Judges and jurors ?—(Cheers and laughter.) He would ask him whether he was not himself a Member of that Committee, and whether he bad not a hand in the circulation of those notices and placards ?—( Iromense cheering.) Was the Hon. Member for Bridport a Member of that Committee? —(Much laughter.) He (Mr. Warburton) could perhaps tell them whether any foreign potentates had interfered on that occasion ?—( Laughter.) Perhaps, too, he could tell them where the persons came from who subscribed their shil lings in aid of the petition, for the chief part of the subscrip tions were paid in shillings.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Mem ber for Chester and for Cornwall were also on that Co nmit tee, as was also an Hon. Member for Wiltshire —not, how ever, the Honourable Baronet, the present Member ( Sir Francis Burdett), who was now the object of such virulent attacks, but another, whom the House would recal to mind (Hear, hear.) He should like to ask the Honourable Mem ber for Bridport, who talked so largely of the duty of, persons absenting themselves under certain circumstances from voting with regard to Election Committess, whether he was not him , self present at the Ballot for this very petition— ( Hear, hear, hear,)—and whether he did not take a very active part in stri king it ?—( Loud cheers from the Opposition Members.) Would he tell the House if he and the Member for Chester, and the rest of those Honourable Gentlemen, thought it neces sary to absent themselves on the occasion to which he re ferred ?—( Continued cheering.) The lion. Member for Lincoln had that night brew extraordinarily eloquent on the impropriety of the Hon. Baronet the Member fer North Wilt shire's subscription of 20/. "He ought not to subscribe," said the Hon. G ntleman, t" in a case in which he is at the same time both Judge and jury." Would the Hon Gentleman say that he had himself never subscribed to the aid of an election petition 2—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon and Learned Gen tleman then read the following extract. from the Glebe news paper of the 27th of March, 1835 .4 We understand that Mr. Villiers has the strongest case against his opponent, and would be sure to unseat him on pe tition. But the misfortune is, that the expense to which he has been already put will probably incapacitate him from re newing his efforts. The electors of Canterbury, who have a more permanent interest in the establishment of their right, have come forward most nobly." —(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Hon. Gentlemen cheered, but let them not cheer toe early, fur it did not stop there, he could assure them. The extract from the Globe went further and said:—" It would be a shame to the Re formers of England if these patriotic exertions should be left unaided." (Cheers from the Opposition, answered by ironical cheers from the other side.) The H et. Member for Lincoln shire wa s not an elector for Canterbury—( A laugh)---but not withstanding this the paper expressly named him as a subscriber to the petition in question :- 44 We perceive in the list of subscribers to the funds for conducting Mr. Villiers's petition ag iinst the return of Mr. Lushingtnn the name of Mr. Ed eard Lytton Bulwer, M.P., for 51. 5..."—( Cheers from the o position side.) ' Mr. BUL WE R rose to order, but resumed his seat upon being told he could not do so un lee the circumstances. Sir W. FOL LE CT said he should be glad if the re z )ort in the paper was not correct. Mr. BUI•WER--It is not.—( Hear, 1-ear.) Sir W. FOLLETT said the Hon: Gentleman had sub scribed in aid of an election petition. Mr. BULWE R—Never.—( Hear, hear. ) Sir W. FOLLETT—It might be that the Globe stated what was not true; but he would refer to another circumstance upon a similar subject. A meeting was held no later than yes terday in the city of London, to take into consideration the petitions presented against the return of the Members for that city. At that meeting resolutions were passed that those pe liens were frivolous, vexatious, and unfounde.i, and the chliir man of that e 7 meeting was a Member of Parliament— ( Hear, bear, from the Ovposition benches)—and an individual who was liable to be called upon to serve on the Committee Letore whom the merits of the petition against the city of Lon don Members would be tried.—( Hear.) Was there any dif ference between this case and that of a party of miens' ex pressing their opinions upon any other election petition? In this ease, too, the resolutions not only expressed the opinions of a party. I ut a Member or that House was also actually the chairman of the meeting. But it was said that they ought not ts subscribe to petitions without examining their merits or de merits. Let him, 1 owever, call the attention of the House to what took place at the meeting of an Association in another place. The Hon. Member for Lincoln asked why it was against the Irish returns alone that these petitions were pre sented, and designated them as an attack upon the Catholics of Ireland. Now he ( Sir W. F. ) was the last person to stand up and offer offence to any particular class of persons, but it certainly did appear to him to be an abuse of the term to say that the persons petitioned against were the representatives of the Irish electors.—( Hear.) There was strong reason to believe that many of those elections had been carried by inti midation, or by means of those who had no right to vote, and the House ought to come to so:ne conclusion as to whether th f e shat 3 oti was called fictitious voters had been bro u g ht forward or not. It was rr u-ed against these petitioners thattohke place meeting on o called the " Spottiswoode gang" to August, a period too soon for them to know anything Of de real eircurrstnnces of tl-e Ir's'a returns. Bat he found that a meeting had been held in Dublin at an earlier period still, ie., en the lath of August—( Hear) —at which it was stated that it was well known then that petitions would be presented against the returns for Dublin, Queen's County, Belfast, Ca-- low, Clonmel, and other places, 23 in number.—( Hear ) He had received a letter from the Secretary to this so much com plained of Association (the Spottiswoode meeting), who stated that no communication, either direct or indirect, had taken place between that body and the electors of the county of Li meriek.—(llear. ) • A resolution passed at th , t Association stated the fullowing, fat's : " It has never beer. their purpose, nor do they now enter-- rain the idea, of originating or cadent king the presentation of ele ct i on p et i t i ons f rom I re l an d, cr o f interfeoing with their managemen t w h en presented. They merely propose to mace grants of money, in aid of tile necessary expenses—( A laugh) —in such cases as seem to them to 1.),C of a just and deserving charazter, and in which the parties promoting them are really in need of the support of the public." ft They will therefore racers:, it all cases in which their assistance is asked, to be satisfied that Oa* itre good grounds THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, DECENIBER 8, 1837. ror the pros-eution of petition=, that they have not IPen pre setitNl for the purpose of ...losing vex:tt'L,n or annoyance: t. - ) the op-,,esite party, and that Vt.,: ialla:)itantq of the ciunty or bc rcugh in li-clAnd so applying for aid have done all in their power to false the necessary funds amongst themselves, and stand in need of assistance." .. " To thes: three points--namely, a cautious abstinence from all countenance to vexcelous petitions—a careful exienination of the merits of the cases requiring aid—and a stipulation that the constiteencies in Ireland shall themselves conti Irene to the ext nt of their aeility, the Committee tow readily pledge themselves, and they trust that on this assurance the Censer yeti% es of Great Britain will place such reliance as to encou rage them to a general and liberal contribution in aid of this great national object." Would the House, then, after this practice had received the sanction of all p:•rties, now consent to pass a vote in its con demnation ?—( Hear, hear.) He well remembered that the Dublin election petitioners acre put to great expense on a former occasion, and that the Honourable and Learned Mern b,r for Dublin received, when defending his return, subscrip tions tam 'persons wholly unconnected with Dublin.— (Hear, hear, hear.) He recAved them from the people of Eng land to the amount of 8,003/.—("Hear," and cheers.) And was it nut fair, in a case of a similar nature, that the peti tioners should hare some money granted them ? When another election had taken place, and the majority was still nutrower, were they not to be aided, when the money came from the same part of the empire as that received by the Ilon. and Is:anted Member for Dublin ?—(Cheers.) But they were told they should not prejudge the question by raising funds, and urged by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord John Russell) not to do it in a hurry, and so forth. But he found that the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, who was so eloquent lee night upon the subject of Judges and Jurors, had been in the very predicament he deprecated himself. Let him ask that Hon. and Learned Gentleman, after calling the attention of the House to his own eats, how he could come and use in that House the arguments he had done ? He found in the Freeman's Jonrnal of April, 1837, when no dissolution had taken place, and no elections were going on, the Ho nourable and Learned Gentleman stating in Dublin, " that it not to be endured that the supporters of Lord Mel bourne's Government should be put to expense—( A laugh)— and he was most anxious that those who supported such a Go vernment should be re-elected free of expense."--(Hear, and . laugheer.) "It would be found no easy matter to shake them," continued the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, " and in order to aid them by every way in oar power, I propose that every Liberal Irish Member of Parliament shall advance 601. to meet the expenses of their elections—( Hear, hear)—to form a petition and anti-petition fund."—(Laughter.) But he found that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was, on that occasion, interrupted by Mr. Barrett, who suggested that " anti-Tory" would be a better word—(Laughter)—to which Mr. O'Connell answered, " of course."—(Loud laughter.) The House would observe that some of the parties called upon to subscribe by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dub lin were the Irish Members—weee men who might them selves be placed in the situation of judges and jurers.— ( Cheers.) " lf," continued the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, " the Irish Members will give the sum I have mentioned each, it will leave us 3,0001. for a commencement. This will not be a bad beginniag. I will put down, in the first instance 3001., as a subscription for myself and my three sons."—( Vehement cheering from the Opposition Benches.) It would be recollected by Hon. Gentlemen that each of the three sons of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin were at this time Members of that House.—(Renewed cheering.) " Many high and wealthy persons of the upper orders will, I am satisfied, not be backward in coming forward with their subscript'ous, when it is known that the money to be collected is intended to be applied to prevent the present petition sys tem."—(Renewed cheers.) " I will engage that after this no petition will be presented against the return for Carlow or for Longford either." In this 'prediction, however, the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin was mistaken, for it so hap pened that there were petitions against the returns of both the places which he had named. Why, did Hon. Gentlemen th:nk that this conduct of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin was at all consistent with the statements and argu ments which he used in that House last night? Now, what did the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin do? Why, he did that which had brought about the meeting of what he called the " Spottiswoode gang."—(Loud cheers.) But when, he asked, was the proposition of a general subscription made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin ? Why, in April, 1837, during the sitting of Parliament, during the lifetime of the late King ; and it was not until the 30th of August fol lowing that the meeting so bitterly inveighed against by the Hon. Gentleman opposite took place.—( Vehement cheering.) He wired, was it fair or right, after they, on the other side of the House, had done this—after the great leader of their party openly, and without either concealment or disguise, had done this—after Hun. Members of that House who were named on the CoMmittees which had conducted such subscriptions, and might afterwards be struck on the ballot, and sit on the Com. mittees appointed to try the validity of such petition had done this—was it, he asked, light or proper, on their part, after all this, to come forward now, and demand a Committee to report upon, or otherwise express an opinion against a system which owed its origin to themselves ?—(Cheers.) He could not help thinking that the character of that House—and he put it to Hon Members with all sincerity—would be lowered in the eyes not only of the people of this country but of, the world in general if, on account of its being inconvenient to some Hon. Meiebsrs opposite, the majority of that House were to attempt to carry measures, or do acts, which would relieve them from the inconvenience which was apprehended by denouncing proceedings as illegal which he had no hesita tion in declaring neither the law of Parliament, practice, or usage of this country, had ever considered in any other light than as le.trfectly constitutional. —( Great cheering.) Lod EBRINGTON did not rise for the purpose of re plying to the very able speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, but simply to explain the ea-t he had taken in reference to a former election for the county of Dorset, to which the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman had made particular reference. At an election fur the county of Dorset, which took place some years ago, he cer tainly had, though an elector, taken a very deep interest in the success of an Hon: Friend of his, who then contested the county a ..inst the Noble Lord who now sat for that county. He well recollected that he allowed his name to be put down as a Member of a Committee Fund in London, for the purpose of promoting subscriptions towards that election, to which sub scriptions he also himself contributed.—( Opposition cheers.) He recollected also having heard at the time of circum stances connected with that election which, in his opinion, formed very strong grounds for a petition against the return, and he would not pretend to say that he might not have authorised the use of his name as a Member of a Committee which was then formed for the purpose of promoting sub scriptions in support of such a petition.—( Renewed Op positi in cheers.) At the same time he trusted the House would believe him when lie said that he had no recollection of having. taken any part in the proceedings of that Committee, no: of having subscribed towards the funds of Hear.) But even if he were mistaken in his recollection of these parti culars. was then.. no di.tinction to be drawn between a sub scription pronimed for the individual purpose he baa described, and that which they were now 'considering?—( No, nn I from the Opposition)—the subsetibers to which could have no knowledge of the general merits of all the Irish elections, to petitions relating to which their funds were to be applied ? He would ask again, was there no difference between his conduct in the case he had referred to, and that of those individuals who, without any inquiry into merits, issued a a holsesale sub scription against all the elections of one portion of the king dom ?—( Cheers . ) Until he had heard something more con clusive then any which he had heard on the subject, he should not be induced to consider that his conduct in this affair offered a precise parallel to that of the parties to the subscriptions they were now considering.—(Cheers.) Mr. DENISON begged to offer a very few words in ex planation of %%Ira his consluct really had been in reference to the mee ing on the subject of the City Election Petition. At the late election for the City of London, as the House was I,hln. Members opPos4e were fait.ty.by: hint for he could .positiveiy as-ert z wh thight be -the else with, other Members, that in conise.of- his life-he ( Mr. Poultcr) had never +.3bsciibed one farih/tig,,;--(Lotid' laughter and cheering from the 0, position, )' 11. believed it v.ould be found that a more fair, a rn)re honest, or a tore constitu3 tiunal return had never taken place than that ft.r the borongl of Shartest,ury.—(Llughter.) He was surprised that nom Members on the other side treated him with so much un fairness ; but he maintained tl:at the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had recently addressed the House from that side had entirely failed in defending, upon consti tutional ground , , the pro ricty of these subscriptions. He . , saw no difference whatever between unjustly prosecutiug a petition in that House, and instituting unlawfully a suit in a civil court. The form of proceeding was similar in the two cases. The petitioner proceeded, as a plaintiff, by declara tion, and was required to establish his proof secundam ellegate. —( A laugh from the Opposition.) He found it stated in books of high authority, that a person leaving the sum of 201. for the purpoie of maintaining an action at law was guilty of an illegal act. Were not these petitions, supported in the manner that had been described, equally guilty ? Ifs ich a system were allowed, it would Lave this effect- that a large umber of persons, at a trifling expense, might prosecute to . „ . . ruin a single individual.—(Laughter from the Opposition.) It was impoAlblo fur him not to. desire that a check should be _ . . . put to such proceedings, when he saw such individuals as Mr. Curling putting down their names for 501., 20/., or 101.; for no other object, he firmly believed, than to ruin a humble though independent individual.—( Renewed laughter from the Opposition.) Surly the House could never say that this was not a case which, in all its ei.-eumstances, should be probed to the bottom. This was a question in which the Government and every Member of that House were deeply interested ; and he was sarprised to hear so serious a charge as that which the motion conveyed met by the imputation of unconstitutional proceedings on the part of persons professing liberal opinions. He did not think that his own was a case which ought to be prejudged, and he was satisfied that it supplied a strong argu ment fur the motion for a Committee, which should have his most strenuous stwport.—( Hear, hear.) Lord ASHLEY—I entirely agree with the Hon. Member for Bridp ort (M r . W ar b ur t on ) that there is a vast difference between the p,Aitiois at prtsent under consideration and that wh i ch was instituted against my return. There is certainly a Very great difference in the two cases, »hen the whole force of a country was directed against one individual, and when or.e large class was struggling for victory over another.—(Cheeps from the Opposition.) Now let me tell the House the grounds on which the petition and subscription were go up against me, and I think I shall be able to prove that a more unwarrantable proceeding never was instituted. What was the argument used used in private to induce persons to subscribe ? Why this—" Show but a menacing attitude ; he has no money to resist ; he is exhausted by the contest, and he must retire."— ( Opposition cheers ) They did show that menacing attitude, and I did retire. It is true that my friends used their best exer tions—( Hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—and contributed by sub scription for the purpose of obtaining for me a fair hearing ; but it was to the malignity of my enemies—for I can call it by no less harsh a name—which I do not, however, mean to apply to the Honourable Member for Bridport, who has be haved to me in the most candid and honourable manner-- that I owe my sole preservation.—"( Opposition cheers.) The poll was vexatiously kept open for eighteen days, three Sun days having occurred during this period. The election doted on the 17th of October. I arrived in town on the 19th, and on the 20th, or 21st, at the very latest, the whole town was placarded with appeals to the country to drive me from my seat.—( Opposition cheers.) And what was the effect of this appeal ? Only two days ago a gentleman residing at Reading told me that he perfectly well recollected when the news of that subscription came down to the town which I have named, and that it produced a strong sensation amongst the Re formers—the tradesman and labouring man contributing b i ls shilling to swell the fund destined for my destruction.—( Op position cheers, and an ironical cry of " Hear," frOm Mr. O'Connell.) I had to defend my seat for seventeen days---L one day less than the duration of the election itself. And what in the end was the result? Why, the Hon. Mem ber for Bridport (Mr. Warburton) said to me, " Well, if I bad known you had so good a case, nothing on earth would have induced me to take the part I have done."—( Opposition cheers.) . I feel happy to acknowledge the manly and honour able conduct of the Hon. Member for Bridport, and of the Noble Lord the Member for North Devon (who has pursued this evening his invariably upright course), in admitting that they had affixed their names to a Committee-list, the object of which was to amass subscriptions for turning out an indivi dual.—( Loud and long-continued Opposition cheers.) Mr. WARBURTON said, in explanation of the assertion of the Noble Lord that he had expressed surprise at his case being so good a one, that before the petition was presented be declared his opinion that it ought not to be persevered in. Mr. GORING and Mr. O'CONNELL rose together. There were loud cries for the latter, but the Hon. and Learned Member gave way. The former Hon. Member said, it was illegal and unconstitutional for a Lumber of persons to subscribe in order to defeat the return of a man who might not have means to defend his seat, and the House ought to purge itself from every imputation of unfairness and oppression. Mr. VILL I E RS did not hair it disputed that men of wealth and station had combined to contribute to their funds for the purpose, by means of the Parliamentary tri bunals, of removing a class of persons from this House, and substituting in their seats partisans of their own—( Cheers) ; and that they bad so engaged to promote and maintain these petitions before Committees, without inquiring into the merits of the case, without having an immediate interest in the re sult, and without ascertaining how their funds were to be ap plied for the purpose.—( Hear, hear.) These were the facts before the House. They had the object in view, and they had the fund contributed for its accomplishment; but the country had another circumstance before it, namely, the cha racter of the tribunal as it had been described by Honourable Members themselves on all sides of the House, and which was allowed to be as imperfect in every respect as tribunals tried by any test whatever could be found to be.—( Cheers. ) In his hearing it had been admitted by all par ties that the Judges were justly suspected because they had an interest in the result of the inquiry ; that they were incompetent because they were without learning and experience, and they were exclusive, for no man of moderate fortune could ever think of appearing before them.—(Cheers.) What, then, he asked, were the people to think who heard this character of the tribunal, and heard that large sums had been raised to questiim the seats of their repre sentatives before them ?—( Hear, hear.) He knew that it was the custom of this House to repel with indignation the idea that their votes would be influenced by place or pay—( A laugh) ;—but when the people I:card of Members denouncing Committees of their body as impure, why should it be an ex travagant supposition on their part to believe that the direct mode in allowing the judges themselves to share in the fund was the mode in which the favourable decision for the contri butors was to be obtained ?—( Hear, hear.) No one would deny that any Irish elector would be justified in his opinion, and was it right to leave justice 'thus to be suspected ?—( Hear, hear.) He was sorry to think that thin: was less importance attached to the p.oceeding because it involved only the fate of Ireland—hu obse: ved with regret the manner in which persons allowed themselve3 to speak and write about Ireland ; but if he could appe a l t o no hi g h er feeling, let Members only think themselves, let English and Scotch Members remember, that this was a bold expe riment just made, which, if allowed to pass unheeded, would not be confined to the Irish, but would b applied to any c i !tss who were obnoxious to the wealthy classes, who hod combined• their property for this purpose.—(Hea-, hear. ) Where was it to end if they did not now mark their sense of The injustice and impolicy of this scheme ? Why should not every popular member be driven from his seat ?—( Hear, hear.) And what was the answ,r which the HON. Member for Exeter aware, there 14e _e five candidates) and his lion. Friend near him was r,turned by 2 majority of six votes over the rejected candidate. The friends of the rejected candidate, however, gave to the opinion of the Crown, that if this were allowed by the Constitution it ought not to be ; or the answer to his Hon. Friend the Member for Liocoln, when he asked the Right Hon. Baronet the Member fur Tamwcrth why he sought to defer or prevent the reform of the tribunal? Why, that the practice was of long standing in this country so to inter fere with the due administration of justice--( Hear, hear)— that it was done on both =ides, for his speech was nothing from beginning to end but recrimination and bandying back the charge ui on this side which had proceeded from it--( Hear) .I.snd what did that prove but the greater necessity of Reform, and' to the extent to which, the injustice had been carried ? ( Hear, hear, hear.) He had heard that the colleges of Ox ford had come forward to contribute their funds for the pur pose of maintaining petitions against Irish Members. Would it be, then, wond. rful if Irish Members were to reta,'iate, call 'for inquiry into their charters, or institute suits against their presuming that they bad forfeited them ?—( Hear. ) Colonel CONOLLY hailed these subscriptions as a proof that the generous feelings of the people of Great Britain were excited in behalf of the oppressed part of the c,,nstituency in Ireland, whose rights had been grossly and scandalously trod. den down by a system of corruption and intimida'ion, which if related in that House would be hardly credited.—( Opposition cheers.) After the accidental expression of '• alien" had been reiterated to an extent that prevented any body from listening to it any longer, a new alarum bell was now to be sounded of the hostile feeling of Great Bii!ain, because the people of this country were anxious that the oppressed electors of Ireland should have honest and fair means of approaching the legiti mate tilbunals of the country.—(Opposition cheers.) Mr. H. GRATTAN slid his conviction was that the whole con:piracy had been organizel long before the elections took place, and ho referred to the' events which attended the Long ford election in proof of the fact. But in addi inn to its being an anti. Irish conspiracy, it was more particu:t.rl) aimed against those members from that country who professed the Catholic religion.—( Cries of " No, no.") Let Hon. Mem bees who doubted thia assertion took to the list of the subscribers. —( The Hon)urahle Meryber here read a long string of :ow-ncs from among the subscribers, with a view of show ing that a conside!.ahle proportion of the fund had beet• sent in by persons notoriously hostile to th e C at h o li c re- But What puzzled him most was to see the names of so many fair ladies on the list--old dowagers and interesting spinsters had entered heart and hand to aid ihe fund. There was Mrs, Hastings, Miss Mary Hastings, Miss Ann Hastings, &e. &c. to the end of a_ long chapter. Now, why in the name of comm o n sense s h ould all these good ladies be so hostile to Irish Members ?—(Roars of laughter. ) But what to him was the mctt vexatious part of the whole a ff a i r, t h e spot t§lygodc onspirators had actually s w indled three most amiab!e and interesting female relatives of his own. --(Roars of laughter.) But to be serious. Did the House know how many Pretestant clergymen figured on the list a contributors to this fund for upsetting the Irish elections? Why no less than 1,121. Cheers from the Ministerial benches.l Why 9 was the !qn. flatonet (Sir P. Burdett) Who Clamoured so loudly about the' unholy combination of " Paid patriot., Popish priests, and Irish agitators," while he stated this fact ?---c Cheers.) What bad he to say upon this now petitioned against all the four sitting Members,. and a subscription was raised by the. Conservatives for the purpose of supporting that petition. The subscription on the sitting Members' part, therefore, was merely a defeesive one.-4 Op- - position cheers.) With respect to his having acted•as Chair ,: an at the macting in the City for the purpose of forwarding this object, he begged to assure the lion. and Learned Gen tleman opposite that he ( Mr. Denison) had the honour of b.;iog an elector fur the City of London, •for he took care to inquire into that fact when applied to by the Secretary to pre side at this meeting, who assured him that his name was on the list of voters, or they would not have applied to him. IVith respect to the possibility of his being on an Ele ct i on Committee, he could also assure the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman that before he took the Chair he said to a friend of his t h a t he did not think he should serve again, because having sarved on eight petitions he should swear off.—( Hear.) Mr. WARBURTON admitted the charge made mainst him by the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter, of his having taken an active part in the election for the county of Dorset some years ago ; for he acted a s Ch a i rman o f t h e London Committee for his friend Mr. Ponsonby, in opposi tto this election, as f ar as h e cou ld recollect t this di s t an c e o f ti me , M em b ers l e e iunal L rs o et r fae d Ir c e n sc w e h e a o now sat for the gaunt', A s to w i h n a o t o o k the t place N coi Noble of Parliament studiously avoided subscribing to the funds in support of the petition against the Noble Lord's return,—. (Hear, hear.) For himself, as far as allowing his name to b: insetted in the advertisement, calling upon all the inhabi tants of the United Kingdom to subscribe in support of this petition, he believed the Honourable a n d . Learned Mt= ter for Exeter had certainly established a ease age.ilizt --a fact which, of course, Members opposite would not fdi to ttie to thn best advantage. —( Hear, and 01. position ct.oering.) With respect to the subscription to defray the ex/a, nses of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin in defending his return, he certainly not only did all iu his power to advance that subscription, but he had contributed to it him self.—( Opposition t beers.) But then it should be recollected that this subscription took place after the Committee had com pleted their labours and had given their deeision---( Hear, hear)—and he krew that a very strong feeling had existed amongst all those who projected this subscripti n, that nothing o f the kid 1 should he entered into, and no steps taken towards it until after the d'sputed rgurn was decided,— (Cheers,) Mr. P 0 ULTE It thought the House ought to to Wort-tied that this system of subscription was not confined to Irish elec ions. He held in his hand a provincial paper, dated Salis bury, November J.l, in which was an advertisement calling ing upon every peraen in the poiptry to subscribe in supp ort of a petition agains t his ( Mr. P . ..ltees) —(frianical cheers from the Opp osition.) And he was" sorry t o ' se ., amongst the subscribers to this proposed fund the name of one of the Lion- Meßbers for porch9ter. Fie did tlot think combination ? Hon. Members on the opposite eide exclaimed War is protection 1" He sail so too, if such combinations were to be deemed the el.-meets of peace.—(Cheers.) But notwithstanding all the great Spottiswoode conspirators could do, his conviction was that the spirit of liberty would, ere lone, estabnsh on the firmest basis the rights and linerties of frig Irish countrymen.—( Leud cheers. ) Tee Arro lt E GENE It AL was desirous, in a very calm and dispassionate manlier, to state to the lipase the view he took of the case under discussion. When the Hon. Mem ber for Limerick last night gave notice of his intention of mov ing for the Committee, he ventured to express his opinion that its appointment would be altogether inexpedient, and no less useless. The opinion he then expressed he still meinta . hed. —( Hear.) Fur what purpose, he asked, should a Committee enter into this investigation ? The facts of the transaction were not at all disputed, and that being the case, when these facts were reported by the Committee what would there be to be done ? No one proposed to institute a criminal prose cution ; he believed it was neither intended nor wished by any one —(H a-, hear)—.then, was the House to enter into any question of breach of privilege ? Such questions, in his humble o, inion, were as far as possible. to be avoided —( A cheer from the Opposition b 'aches.) Honoureble Gelitlemen opposite cheered, but let them hear him out. \Vhenever necessary let the House practically bring them for Nerd, and exert those privileges with which they were invested, but do not let us mix up with them any speculative question in volved in debate.—( Hear, hear.) For these reason-, if the question came to a division, which he hoped it would not, be should vote against the proposition for a Committee.— (Cheers from the Opposition benches.) But was it from this to be inferred that he approved of what had been done by the the subseriers to this fund ?—( Chem s from the Ministerial benches.) No : he most strongly condemned in as being un constitutional, illegal, and as tending to most mischievious con sequences.—( Loud cheers.) His Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Exeter had not ventured to defend it. The whole of his address, in which he displayed his usual acute ness and deep casuistry, amounted in the end to but a recrimi nation on his (the Atterney-General's) si le of the House. Tu quoque was its starling note from the beginning to the end. This was, in point of fact, neither more nor less than a sub scription against the Irish Catholic Members of that House —( Loud cries of " No, no," from the Opposition benches.) It was so.—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) It was an appeal to the Protestants of England against the Catho lics of Ireland.—( Renewed cheering.) The Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) had stated, no doubt %Sill perfect sin cerity, that he was ignorant of this being the fact; but he (the Attorney-General) contended that it was proved beyond all doubt.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore it was, he asserted, that this subscription was peculiar in its nature and most dangerous in its consequences, for it tended to stir up religious strife, and endanger the integrity of the empire.—( Loud cheers. ) He had narrowly consulted all the authorities bearing upon the point, and the conclusion to which he came was this, that these subscriptions were illegal.—( Loud end continued cheering.) Even at an early period it was found neces sary to enact severe laws against combinations which had either a direct or indirect tendency to prevent the due course of justice ; and among other things it was expressly specified, that unless a man had a direct interest in a suit— (Cheers from the Opposition benches)--although he believed the case to be founded in justice, and although he was con vinced thct the party whose cause he espoused had right on his side, by the law of England he was precluded from as sisting hint with money.—( Hear, hear.) But there was an exception to this general rule, to which the cheers from the Opposition benches referred--that was the case of a man having an interest in the suit. A man having a right of common with several others might make a joint stock purse with those others to carry on an invasion of the right ; but, as far as he could find, there was nothing in JIM law books which at all applied to the case, and, on patriis intermiscere petite the contrary, this express question had been decided by a Verba foris malis, Canusini more bilinguis ?" high tribunal in the country, as if it had been a case of But in fact the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had it s maintenance. The case in which he referred was that of h un d re d t ongues --one f or every society into which he ente red ' " Wallis v. the Duke of Portland," reported in 3d V ese y, At White Conduit-house, however, having voted for the N°P junior's, Reports. It was here held that a party not an L or d i n t h e H ouse o f Commons, he denounced her Majesty ,a, elector, contributing money, or assisting anywise the pro. Ministers as enemies to Reform threw them over the bridg es secution of an election petition, was guilty of maintenance. and d ec l are d hi mse lf a simple Radical. The Noble Lordd A gentleman, named Jackson, was returned for the borough his part, came down at once from the eminence on which t.' of Colchester, and Mr. Tierney, the unsuccessful candidate, h a d p l ace d hi mse lf . The great poet of the country be . petitioned against the return. Upon this the Duke of Port- vided life into seven ages ; but the Noble Lord proceeded' - land employed the plaintiff, who was his attorney, to carry once to enact " the lean and slippered pantaloon ;" and on the petition at his (the Duke of Portland's) expense. The "His big manly voice, petition being decided, the plaintiff Wallis, so employed, came Turning again towards childish treble, piped against the Duke of Portland for the money he had laid out And whistled in the sound." in the prosecution of the petition, and his evidence not being So that it was really impossible to know at any tinee wat complete, lie filed a bill of discovery, in which he set forth th e th e N o bl e L or d would be in twenty-four hours. So discor - fact of - his being employed by the Duke of Portland, as above ant were the materials with which the Noble Lord bad 10 ,, mentioned. This bill was demurred to, on the ground that it work, that he found it difficult to keep them together. So me ' set forth what was not legal evidence. Lord Rosslyn, in giv- times the Noble Lord quarrelled with his materials, and then ing judgment, held that the employment of the attorney Wal- again he was reconciled to them. Now for a word or tw o ° a lis by the Duke of Portland in the prosecution of a petition in the question before the House. The Hon. and Learned which he had no legal interest, was a violation of the law, and Member for Dublin had received 9,000/. to indemnify bi ln 4n4 for that reason the demurrer was allowed. This in itself was the expenses of his petitiote s He had previously iricienan o a strong case, but it was made stronger, and brought more himself to the amount of n.,000/., for which sum he soa t e e home to the present by the language held by Lord Rosslyn in representation of the county of Carlow. A Committee ne pronouncing his judgment. He said, " Put this ease—a sub- that House, however, exculpated him from the charg e scription to carry on a petition to the House—l c o n f ess I a l- p ersona l corruption, But now the Hon. and Learned e'e ways thought there was something oft crime:in it. Th e ca s e di s - tl eman pretended to find fault with persons who had done nn„ closed is of this nature—an undertaking appeared between the thing more than that whica had always been the practili plaintiff and defendant, that the letter would contribute to the ex- The thing bad been done over and over again ; and he we pease of a petition against a Member of Parliament—that is, recollected that such had been the case when he was a mel n ,: e an engagement between two parties to the injury and oppres- of Brookes's Club.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Nothing bad " — en . sion of a third. In short, it is maintenance, for maintenance done more than that which it was usual to do for the pros e— se is not confined to supporting suits at common law."--[The tion of felons ; and if the proposition before the House 101 ." reading of this passage elicited loud cheers.] To this de- successful, he should expect to see the table leaded with Pe"; cision of Lord Rosslyn there was an appeal, and the case w as ti ons f rom felons, complaining of the unconstitutional manne r brought before the House of L or d s f or their decision. It in which they were treated by illegal combinations._( Hear.) was argued there, and they unanimously affirmed the jedg- Mr. BULWER, in explanation, denied that he had, in 51 1 ment of the Court, as w e ll as th e d oc t r i ne th a t L or d R oss l yn way, subscribed with reference to the Canterbury peLit i T l :, had laid down, th a t su b scr i pt i ons t o carr y on an e l ec ti on p et i - W hen applied to to do so, he had answered that he might be tion by persons who were not e l ec t ors was ma i n te nance an d b a l loted as a member of the Committee to take the petitie:: illegal.—( Cheers.) So much with regard to general sub- into consideration, and, therefore, must decline any W e "' scribers ; but when they came to the case of Members of that ference.__( Hearnshear.) .House being s u b s c r ib ers , h e did not h es i tate to say th at t h e Mr. O'CONNELL said that the argument of some o f the subscription was most gr oss ly ill ega l. —( Ch eers .) M em b ers speeches which had thatnight been mad e w i t h a iew to opP ° ! o 0 of that Hous e s t o od i n th e s i tuat i on o f J u d ges i n respect to the motion of the Hon. Member for Limerick, was directly.l, these election petitions, and th e f ac t o f t h e i r su b scr ibi ng f or f avour of that motion. For instance, all the proceedings „nice the prosecution or defence of p e ti t i ons p l ace d t h em i n t h e h a d b een described by the Noble Lord the Member for Derbli situation of persons having a pe cun i ary i nterest i n t h e case. s hi re, were proceedings which ought to he taken cognizaneefe In support of this position he had more than one striking case by the House. The Noble Lord had told the House that li dn to cite. In the case of a pros ecu ti on i nst i tute d b y t h e S o- h e d been nearly the v i c ti m o f a combination against hi m , a 2 ciety for the Suppression of Vi ce , th e J u d ge, upon a sug- t h at, although the election was a fair one in his favour, " gestion made to him by the p r is oner ' s counse l , ad d ressed the had nearly been driven from his seat. Did the Noble In°d Jury, asking if any of them were subscribers to the fund, for make a formal complaint to that House? If he had dine so ' if they were they could by no means serve on the trial. In he ( Mr. O'Connell) would have voted for an i n vestignu n , another case—( the King a ga i ns t D o lb y , reporte d i n 3d i nto the subject. The case afforded another instance of tbne Barnewall and er e s sw ell)— a s i m il ar d ec i s i on was come to. conspiracy of which himself and his friends complained. The Let the Hous e se e i n w h at s i tuat i on a M em b er o f P arl i ament Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter (and none rn° „ ( 3, might be placed if this practice were permitted. If he had learned or more able, or even so able) made a long subscribed in favour of a p e titi on agai ns t a sitting Member, powerful party speech, but did not meet the question n and if the defence o f th at M em b er were d ec l ared fr i volous fore the house at all. The question was not whether. and vexatious, l i e s ave d so muc h money out o f hi s own she lion. Member f or W ater f or d or whet h er be ( 1 pocket. He did not believe that any Hon, Member would O'Connsll) was wrong. Did the Hon. and Lcern e n t be actuated by such mot i ves . B ut t h e l aw was aga i nst the Gentleman attempt to justify the practice complainechbant practice ; th e l aw di squa lifi e d any person from being a by the Hon. Member for Limerick ? Not at all. NY judge or being o n a j ur y w h o h a d t h e s li g h test pecun i ary in- the Hon. end Learned Gentleman did was to quote, ir on. terest in the matt e r a t i ssue . H e re j o i ce d t h at the subject an arguaseatum ad hondoem, the cours e w hi c h h e n Mr- ° the had been brought before the House and the public. And he nell) had pursued on a former occasion. Now, what were 1., trusted that if there should b e any f uture su b scr i pt i ons for facts to which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman similar purposes, th e y w ou ld not b e o f a nat i ona l or religious luded? In April, when there was no had when there h ro cast. was no election, he (Mr. O'Connell) had hinted that a I ten Sir FRANCIS BURDETT must s a y th a t h e wished t.c.ion fund at such a period as that might be desirable. l' more of the individual s w h o sat on t h e T reasu r y b enc h was l awyer enough to know that if no cause was pending, or ni n had addressed the H ouse on t h e su bj ect. O n l y one H o - i n v i ew, such a subscription m i g h t , even accor di ng to t ime nourable and L earne d G ent l eman h a d spo k en f rom t h at l aw of maintenance, be entered into. But did the 1-10a*. an d bench ; and if 'wh a t th a t H enoura bl e an d L earne d Gentle- L earned Member for Exeter mean to say that this prope ntion nn man had sail was true, it put tho case entirely out of was proceeded isith ? Was a penny actually subscribed ? 1 :; f3 court. Great as n ecessar il y was t h e we i g h t o f t h e H onour - certainly wished the matter to be carried forward, but °nee able and Learned G ent l eman ' s op i n i on, an d l ayman as he the sitting of Parliament arrived it was d e te rm i n ed not 10 t o ( Sir F. Burd e tt) was , h e was prepare d to meet the Hon. any step until a dissolution, and the plan was abandoned art and Learned G ent l eman on t hi s const i tut i onal question, and a shilling was ever subscribed. Having disposed of tba t P t to call on he r M a j esty ' s G overnment, if the case was en of the subject, he would proceed to the matter imn.e diany illegal one, t o b r i ng i t un d er t h e cons i deration of a much before the House. To wh a t e ver remark the statem en t t r e S r o . b t better tribunal thin that House, in which all sorts of insane subject him, he had no hesitation in acknowledging political feelings and passions prevailed, In the first place be was engaged in a great national expeiinient. —( , g et e e a er must thank the Honourable Member for Limerick, who had hear, hear.) He was endeavouring to ascertain w' e r e brought forward the question, for the mariner in which he had there was sufficient love and smpathy for Ireland it' to done so. For instance, the Honourable Gentleman had not Legislaturemf Great Britain, to y justify those who wil s ' ne n !charged him ( Sir F. Burdett) with being a conspirator, and preserve the connection between the two countries. ll o n t ee guilty of every thing that was vile, merely because the Hon. endeavouring to ascertain whether the sense of justice on Gentleman thought that the practice of which he complained part of England towards Ireland was such as to induce 1 ' so n, was a bad practice, and that the House ought to interfere to to preserve the connection, or whether, on the otherrsonaana put an end to it. On that last point be (Sir F. Burdett) the feelings of England towards Ireland were so adverse a differed from the Honourable Member for Limerick. He did unsympathetic as to warrant Ireland in wishing to dissnln: ri o n not think that the practice to which he had recourse was a bad connection. He had heard the Hon. Member for L u n n ie n or practice. He did not see why honest men ought not to be who famerly was asntrongly opposed as tiny man co .r iu rn r o gb permitted to combine to promote the law, not as men of ano- sibly be to the agitation of repeal, expressing - now atr irt tl.or description had combined, to defeat the law.—( Hear. ) con vi c tion that if such a course of proceeding torsa o re id n ot It was a common tiling throughout England for honest per- laud as the presept were persevered in, the Irish wo uld but sons to combine to enforce the infliction of public punish- only be justified in looking for a repeal of the „ In augh at ment on individuals. There was not a county in which per- would be bound to take the means to obtain it. " sons did not subscribe to a fund for the purpose of bringino us," exclaimed the Honourable and Learned Ge ntleman. plea se, felons to trial. Even the Attorney-General, who went on the " augh at us if you :please, sneer at us if YcjitOl rsclves antiquated law of maintenance, ecknoWledged that it had nothing think that we arc unequal to the task of righting es o not s l i p whatever to do with independent men who subscribed for the but remember that the history cf the world . n u o a. ;_, Lou d. Purpose of bringing - persons to trial who would not otherwise a period at which seven minions of individ but l remon be h r be prosecuted. He ( Sir F. Burdett) and those with whom be laughter from the Opposition )—aye, laugh— had acted, had said nothing of the prayer of the truth by a sens e petitions; they that there is no instance in the history of the world in w hic had not said whether that prayer was right or not. tie seven millions of people once roused to the cowers .) (Sir F. Burdett) had never thought well of the borough sys- of ii.justice have ever failed to right themselves Amatio l n u t: l 4 theca tern; although the Noble Lord, the Secretary of State for Ireland has eight millions of inhabitants. the Home Department, had in former years said that it was are opposed to us. I make millions wiil practically useful, and that it had placed some of the ablest but I tell you that the remaining se l v t e_ nn. , not tnemselves, au men that hal ever lived in the House of Commons. But when lack the power sooner or later . of rig the British Parlie on of obtaining 1 • justice which it seems Was it he (Sir F. Burdett) saw a set of priests in Ireland calling test and laughter.) , _ men to vote for their God—when he saw the lion. and ment will riot e told them."--( Cheers of the misery °f Learned Member for Dublin affixing to the houses of other then that they learned for the first f time you a resen n t of that seven hundred years at: teen the insignini of death, and endeavouring to influence elec- land ? Far from it ; the history n o ofpsessi of erimleion! :ions by a system of terrorism more horrible than had ever forded them nothing but a detailof e Pe peuv , ic. n e !e than existed in France i n th e t i n e o f Robespierre,. he felt justified the suppression of the just rights h with more of ingenuity in considering w h e th er some m eans might not be devised of and Learned Member for Exeter, puttingoan end to such proceedings. Were not such procer d- candour stated that if be though t Ceti:o Catholics of Ireland, hen fo r it million What a„, en ings worse than cor ruption Was it not notorious that assessi- scription against the Roman d as a nation was resorted to for the purpose of influencing the would not support it. Wee, distinctly put forwar Cheers.) elections in Ireland? Had not the most dreadful and her- put forward as? Was it not Catholics ?—( thing R i o ' inan rible murders been perpetrated in that country for that pur- testant subscription against pi _ d it purport to be Ca a gelie s pose ? For instance, were there not the murders of Allen Take the advertisement. .. tiro - . against Roman election and Mackenzie, in the county of Sligo ? Had rot one of else than a Protestant subsci in aid of In sn t • n „ h e ld the most respectable Noblemen in Ireland, a Roman Catho- It was entitled, " A subscription At a mee 'entice-- say don lie, a man whom he ( Sir F. Burdett) highly honoured—had petitions.," and it then w 3 e o nt , on to , not Lord Kenmare declared that the enlightened Roman on WedneFday, August 1837, at the Lon_ that it v.. hattih4.i..assweiss it?a Protestaetr one Catholics of Ireland had nothing whatever to du with those house, Ludgate-hill, it was , i nnanim a doubt that several Ireland Ireland proceedings? And a large potion even of those who sup- pears to this meeting b th (l e 3e lm ' Imperial Parliament f and polling ported the objects of the lion, and Learned Member for Dub- tains lately made to intimidation,personation, long. b r Te e pei Hon. In, were co 11 e Illpeoes. to do so by a system of tyranny more have been obtairied lied and other u nenti . the .3, oppressive than was ever before inflicted upon a prostrate the, votes of disqun o Oh !" exclaimed how w art! . people.—( Hear.) Ireland I He (Sir F. Burdett) had donee (Cheers from the Opposition') " I am very hapPY to find o _ f Vie House.re. more for Ireland than the lion: and Learned Geptlemen, with arid Learned Member, on the other nidedd trusty rcsolvedi but the ing all his rent.—( Hear, and a laugh.) Put tne whole question 1 the lion. Gentlemen are e was at all end, Thc Hqn. a,nd Learned Member for Exeter— (Cheers from the of the lo- Ministerial .13 nchcs.) A .-- he shoeld be happy to eail him his - Hon. an; I the had dem lislied the whelearguinerat of those who sueportee . motio e • - The Hoe. Member for Lincoln had referred to his ( Sir F. Burdett's) opinions and conduct thirty-five years ago. He must confess the folly of his youth.—(Hoer, and a laugh.) lesigated as he was at the period to which the flonourabl Learned Friend Member for Lincoln alluded, by political anger, by the ruin:us expense of two election contes . s in which he had been engaecd with the Gete-rrenent of that tidy, reduced as nearly as Voss! etc to beggary—( No, no)—reduced at l e ast to what—'al though a philosopoer might be contented with it—to so riA-_ row an• income as only just to be able to keep a carriege and hotees, and to maintain the position in society of a genthmaLnt was armor than at present, after such severe contests, .d e until the payment of his debts—thirty years ago, When his big l'id, believing himself oppreSsed by means of the public purse, h certainly had made the appeal to the House of Commons which had been described by the lion. Member for Linciohres. But what had been the consequence? TI at Sheridan 'duel! .. d at bine andhat the House of Commons rejected his petito' alfflost tux voce. But the lion. Member - for Lincoln bad al lowed dint he himself had entered his name a: a stib•criher to .. a fun I fir a simi'ar perp ;se to that a 1 i .11 seas now to dernned.—(Cre sof " No, i. 0.") Certainly d., Hatiourate.s Memb,r for Lincoln did not deny that he ha d ereeredte h nameon such a s , seription list.—( He i l ir, hear.) All that he ' ( Sir F. Burdett) understood the Hon. Membe , t o den y was that he had paid any money. —( A laugh.) Perhaps the Hon; Member's name was placed on the list as a decoy-duck !..) others. The present question, he (Sir F. Burdett) mat.tie: tanned. wag an Irish one. But, as a great poet o f old satu everything was d fferent in Ireland from what it was eve.l where else. Among other things. it appeared tha t a p atio in Ireland was very different from a patriot everywhere Clse: He ready was at a loss to know wheiher the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin was a Ministerial man or ti 3 t• Sometimes the Hon. and Learned Gentleman wattalY-ser Forted the treasury bench ; sometimes he was quite dumb; and nobody knew what to make of him. At the meeting, of Parliament, the Noble Lord on the opposite side ba" made a sdeech which had given hint (Sir F. Burdett) satisfaction and gratification. " Here," said he ( Sir F. Burdett) to himself " is one of the best Conservative speeches I ever heard." No sooner, however, was the speech uttered than the Honourable Gentlemen who sat on the benches below the Noble Lord fell on him with such vin- ' 0 lence that he (Sir F. Burdett) could not help exe!abP it l' with the fat • knight, " Call this • f 'endi! you backing your rl• A plague on such backing say I." Upon this the Noble Lord rose, like the genii in the Arabian Tales, coming for th as a flame from a bottle, had declared that be rejected the ancient institutions i e n m st b it e u r ti f o o n r s Foli.nsEbnugryk;ndb,ustntdhat nothe aa inn t ; a b n i o ci ' ni t h°h et three powders wl.i.2h had been prescribed by his Friend the great ; h f it to anybody. surrenderw oul dm He (Sir F. Burdett) then certainly that the time was come when all the friends of the Constit g " tion night unite in its support, and show the Irish Radicals and democrats that . the sweepers of streets were not eaa n , et h l i e the persons to govern the country.—( Hear, hear.) AC e . Noble Lord, however, in consequence probably of an° t " — squeeze, in twenty-four hours changed his Like Na- a tone. I hornet's tomb, shoe Noble Lord appeared to be suspended be tween heaven and earth, and at times it was difficult to knO r whether he was standing on his head or his heels. But no sooner did the breach between the Noble Lord and his friends appear to be healed th an th e H on . an d L earne d M e mber for Dublin went to dine at Copenhagen or White Conduit house, and there he th rew a ll his Whig friends comp lete', overboard, declaring th a t h e was not even a Whig-Rao', but a simple Radical. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, seemed to speak •se in the Saxon language in the House 01 . house. Commons, but in his native Milesian tongue at Copenhagem" use. It might be asked of the Hon Learned Uell . and tleman—