The Sun. — London, England, 1805-05-14 00:00:00

~. ~.. .._ . ~ .- - , .• ~ . , 1. ~t . , . . 4.4 ) 0 0 , 1 7Nw 0 r :47 ~,,e• , e •ff t , . ),, . . 14; 47 • „Oo '•••••• j ~., v„ 4vial _ ... 1 ' .. i -. ~,, .. .. i .t . , 4 *h.MILL ...:AZ trr • - I . ` ' -ri ....., V I . \,..; 0 •-, ..A:ve,....-,>" • -.....„ • V' -"1 . " t•- - .: , : •.5 .--- ~.L.... , .A "`JI B? ~ , ' -1. 4 i.,... 'id 0 mtgok 4 ,.. „,, qa, MAL VI: s iejt:t 7. MEER 3950,1 1 u E _S DA r, MA'Y 14, 1805. rPRTNZ SEXPrENCE6 1 IMPERIAL PAR LJAMEIVT. , • a high respeCt (Dr . Paley), had niiintaiWnt t hat the Government had a right to - da every thing that, was Tor the good of the people; but this respectable authority allowed, at the same time, that whenever that .exercise , of power was applied th purposes in. consistent with the public good, it became abuse no longer tp be tulerated, for then the right, if it was a right; was to be exercised only for the public good. Unequal' remit - lions were numerous, but still it was only a difference of Statement ; the thing was in sub. stance the same. He preferred the exception to the rule: they who were for (he rule, allowing the force of the.exception. . Some were of opiOion that liberties were 'to, be granted. not as matter of:favour and of potty, bur of right.. He - contended they were matter cf. right., The difference,: - however, was of no effeCi in praftical reasoning. . He contended that the liberties should,,be enjoyed as ,the general tight of the people, and when there was re necesit:; , to withdraw them ;.those (iiho.were of ,a difrerent opi. nion maintained the right of restrietion, but, al. lowed it was not to be,eierciked except in 'eases of nedeistry, and that it was to cease whers-.0 , e nre.4:ii; : y sous done away. - both sides ltd to the same conclusion, that there should .• bean equality of laws, except Where that, equality was likely to be attended with mischief. He 'wished to enforce thiS principle particularly,. beesiuse this question w a s of so witch importance, because it was, ?n its nature, not. a 4uestion of the day, but Must be, if it did not succeed now, a question of future deliberation, to be again and again consider. ed, till the satisfaelion of the claims should have 'finally set it to rest. He' wished that' those ivho were mute or less in favour of the prayer of the •Pe, iition should understand, these points, and, that.. they should not conceive there were differences 'in feel, where, there were only differences in words, and where the theory led to the same, consequences. This he addressed to those who thought that the . . Legislature of those times entetirrued the former re. stridions and provided additional ones. At the . Revolution the sirne principlte were maintained froni political motives,' - arid' tile restrittive sy tern was -adhered to, not from a - distrust of Catholics, hut' as a security against Jat.iobiies'. When James was driven out in consequenet of enormous tyranny, coupled with taligioua bigotry; it was difficult to un, ravel and separate - the ticift wl.ich tyranny and religion'had in his odiotia' Ads, and therefore both were condemned togeth'er.. It was anpossible the Ration Catholics anoliat time could be supposed not to be attacheti to a Prince who was diivete from his throne partly on account of hii adherence to their religion. In Ireland there was reason CO suppose this attachment still strooger, as a war had taken place in consequence. Diffetent restrictions It al fol. lowed conquest, but not. us against adorers of the Saints and the Virgin Mary. William 111. who was a great man,. he believed one rif the greatest t hi s country had ever seen, but ani man who wish. eeltte exalt . hien as ; persecutor, of idolatry and the e.Neeis i , of Saints, mistook his chareder most lee eritiehlifF, consented to- thu establisimierie of ree etridions with tellielance, anti only on the ground that it would be , dangerous to leave .power in the hands of those he had conquered. Vie hether - there Would have been noire witdom in _adhering to his own sentiments, it was not neceseary now to argue; • but the fart was. unquestionable, that the restraints wore itposeil, not from the differeoce of religion, • but from politica; eeteesiry, that power should not be suffered to remain - in the hands of those whose use of it may he dreaded. No' person was so min. ditainted With the history as to be ignerapt that this was the true ,statenient of the case. , The times til e , to the end - rei Anne, were chiefly times of war, and the -excitement of Catiltain was one of the means on which the enertiy relied for. bringing about a ciril war for the advancement of their purposes. When the exoeulsiOn of James4as recent, and Ireland' Wag - bait recently c eee lereel in stippterting his curse, it was iaipossibie ie.ese Who supported his family should not still lotikter assiOt. ante from . the Catholies'of trelanda It was therefore necessary to dim= those Catholics, note literally alone, but rolitically also. iNle s tay: were then of opi nion, that it would he the happiest thing. to` eon. vent those Catholics to Protestantism ; anti many thought now that if those who were then zeol'ous had gone - wisely about it, they seollid'llive sLlCCeeth ed. But in the way they did go about it it Was.ab. whitely impradicable. The laws • that were then 'passed, however, Were onlyenorninally againsi'Ca. tholics, being really against 'Jacobites, and affedino Catholics as' thee , were supposed•to be infeEled with Jacobitieni. During the two - first reigns of' the House of Brunswick the same danger existed as the Cates* for prolonging end ertforciiio' reetridion.— The condet Of the Cs;holics uotier these circum. 'stances was the best ground' to entitle them to favour -and indulgence now, if under such restridions, and : with soemuch solieitition and temptation, their lay.. tilty and atteehment. had icmained unshaken. hives impossible to grant the relief in foriner times, but former. merits seemed to strengthen . the chaini at the present moment.- He -cattle now . to the present Reign. - At the period of:Hie present Majesty's succession, or before that, all danger from the Stu. arts had become extinet they had become insignifi. cant and contemptible in the latter part of 'the Reign of George the , Second ; bat at the mencenaent of the Reign cf His present' Majesty it was impossible to apprehend any thing *from- them . . Then began the n propriety of retake the resttic.` lions, audio point of fad, Oft course sees ukere.— being the Lord Lieutenantcy of elle Duke of Bed ford, 'whei erosided at the time of the succee= sion of .His Majesty,- oyotptorns of reiaxation be. gun to sperar. CiecuenetanceS - seyurred, a few teats after, which proved most clearly, - erleat ,the cause of the -terror anti - the restrictions was 'alike at' Intend. In the American War, and the French War, which accrued•upon in, so far was the Government from having any suspicion of them, that sve . put antis in their hands fur the defence of the Country, cor3. Wry:4o the law which imposed a titstind restraint on thit point,'as if they were not fit to be misted with, arms. At that time there was considerable differ. ence of opinion here on this point, Tor thOugh there was not much-debatelin the House, Gentlemen who reeolleded the time would remember, that the si. tuition of the Catholics was much considered. The Letters of - Mr. Burke, many of which were publish. shewedo that in the year 17761hia subject was much -mentioned in conversation here, It Itcamu inconsequence a topic of much conversation, though at a time when patty politics ran extremel y high, • and every class-of men were warm about the Arne. rican Ware there was little leisure to think of other . subjeas but the opinion i then among all thinking imen was, • that the liberties of the Catholics of Ire.. landeshould be 'restored. He believed the meastire Was brought- forward here- in- favour of the Ca. tholics at chat time, by men who would be ever re; membered with honour, Sir George Saville and Me. Dunning. These measures were considered not so much as a relief here, because the restrictions here had always been much less severe,' and so much relaxed in the execution,' that they were compara. lively much loss a - grievance. It was regardediae of much greater importance, because a paved the way for the introdudion e of a milder system in Ireland. - He 'war one of those who, from his earliest' age,• had thou e iht that the principle of taint pgpalisuprema lrx could never extend to authorize the preven t.0..0.f 'any man from the exercise of his religion. The most important feature, however, in the meiteure adopted here was, the consideration that it may lead to re. taxation in Ireland, as in isel it did. And it was extraordinary. that .what seemed so much 10 stagger Gentlemen now ) WAs nut at all thought 0.1 titer,. C Pipe and the Pretender Were never once looked opon as cahses of apprelrensinn. The situatioo of the Pretender Was then looked upon by some ea entitled to compaaaion,' by other, as entitled to rester.} Mingled with compassion. S9me of the worst disc - pooltions were inclined to taunt him, bet there was in nooneanyisensatiOn like fear._ But the situation 'of the'Catholics of Ireland was peculiar. The Irish Gentlemen would excuse him if he said that their haughty assumptions had placed their Catholic FellOwasui.jells so much beneath them,. that,they could not easily be restored to their teats.. Mi. Burke; in his lettCr to Sir flercules Lanarit.he, can. sidered how far, after thiaprivation and degradation, the Catholics' of Ireland were qoalified for joyment of civil right, and civil power, tor how, ever difficult it was to diatinitaiish civil rights and politicalosower in theory, it was still more ihtfiaoit ip praelice By the restridiorta a chi' oe oaot hraught about in the whole property of Ireland wbich produced a state of thinge highly to he iamenttal.- - He did not mean to , institute a comports ~1) ht.. Aeen the'state in which the Irish Catholics were placaii Fiaa , these resaelarotaa tool,the aiatartion of Oa Vf, 111 oral( West Indies. These were shades of difrartnee bee tween all situations; but so material an eiroat been produced by the placing of the whole property of the Country in the hands of the Protestants, that it was matter of much doubt, whether political power should be placed, whatever right there might be to it, in hands width held no property, It was theoretically :true, that there Should be no dlffere.nee between thole who had property and those who had nor, but that' which-property itself niode. But the situation of the Irish Catholics . „ if they should be enttuated With power, while they possessed no propeity, would be 'altogether anomalous. The Legislature, therefore, ,began wisely with enabliug: them first to acquire property, Znot the,comeipences cif their first rifts conneatd with the right of free trade ' , recognized in 1780, not only increased hi g hl y t h e go o e ad t proportion of the wealth of 'lreland to the "Cvialth of the Empire, but in. Creased the wealth of the Empire still farther beyond all proportion. Nor was it a cummercial wealth alone that the Catholics acquired, but a large.. .proportion of landed property also. These amp). sititips had the best effeet in softening the asperi. ties ot the line of deniarcatioo between time two seas. The Catholics had, lay favour of the relaxa. titans, *gained possession of a great ; pat that property taken from their ancestors by. Cromwell, and since held under his MI of Settlement for more than a century and a half. He stated this in' on. savor to in argument whist' supposed the Catholics to refer to times heYond Cron - I%yd', for the purpose of recovering would be most wild an d -i rrat i ona l, an d n ot rec Overing &apart) , thee enjoyed. S u ch a d de.. sig to .b? juw:ißed by any thing recorded in flee fits. tory of.former times. If it were now attempted to restore the property of the Catholic aoliaa ar s, — it would be fotind that they were now. in a great meaiurs the rich proprietors; anti it would be a. question, not only how many of themselves were to he depriVed e but also to' whalextent, and at all events the number that ,could. Ee relieved by dila must be very few int Led. But he had particular' difficulty 'conceive, why the restritlions now corn. •plained of, should be continued, when the others had been relaxed. The restrialions that now re. mafired may generally be reduced .to two heads iitst, the incapacity from 'soloing certain Civil and military einphaytnents ; and, next, the tight of 'sitting in either HoUse of Parliament. To the Gentlemen who had attended to the chapter of incapacities, And he was sorry to say, it was a large one in the history of Great Btitain, he believed •he would be warranted in declaring an opinion, that it 'was' pettedly tireless for the Objett fur which it had been intended—oodious to those who iutfered—and least honourable to the Empire o f a ll other measures. First, with reaped to the int:spat. titian from office, there.were two mores of etitatiog it : first, bylestria!ling the Prerogative from the li. b el ly of appointing Catholics ; secondly, by prevent. ing Catholics from accepting such apisointment. On what principle this restri4ton could rest now,he could net possibly conceive. The Test AU for the exclusion of Catholics had been enatted la .the Reign of Chalice : 11, .when great danger will a?. preheated from jaeobites. And here a whimsical observation occurred to him, as to the different ways in which our Anceitors and we argued with respect to this point. It was Once a favourite argumentottat this restraint on the prerogative made the Gs)vern, mint more 'agreeable to analogy, and the Constitu. tioo more of a piece, when the King was obliged to 'be Protestant and.the Ministry also. What beauty titktwgiftloarostet:i:vti_ehspienpr yolß:tatsihitihitete)olriosnneal;ny;apern:isocsyowna4:shae!)i..ni::.lwt:toci:iatiail,tnititsic_.earoediulanyckrtit.gl,ihrAmtrlelceotelorciltioi,::annonsidrtits:tilhg4l.iiitte:reLsildilt. very differently' 'On this that Cooties 11. employed Catholics, nor because he was a Protestant, bat because lie 'doubted whe ther he was a Protestant ur . not. When it was conceived that there was a leaning towards any particular, Sea, as Chalesn. was au , peded to have to the Catholics, it was wise and provident to prevant the employment of that "tame- places where they 'Would belikely to second any attempt cm the others. I c t st w a r a . s ; n h o r t i merely bouid b be c6 e r e t p a i u l s e e d K i ng of ,tl es ‘ e v r a y s ic a t t:r. of o the Catholics. There were great men ar that time, and among them Mr. Locke, who thought the Test a professed Catholic. If r t n i l e l m e c r:e s : a a c r a n ?: d t; t Cori w i tc .s w 4 i:t he i r ! : w r a s s r I i v a e ga ry e . litOtlfe,tha itt was its vigilance on this point. To enable' James to appoint Catholics, ,would be to af o fazd the meant of employing them against time . . . . HOUSE OF COMMONS. • Mr, B o MONDAY', MAY T 3.. •:-. -... R vox prese nted a P et i t i on from the County of OK fati; ~,: ainst the CAtli - olic C'lalms. A INles,,ge tram the Lords notified their Lordships' assent 1114 LOrCi it AkROWRY should Attend to be examined by a. Corth.unee on the Tenth Report of the Commissioners o f Naval Li g :iry. Thel Lordships desired a conference on the kiiiedot the reques t with respect to Lord 1%1 E L V 3 LLE. Lord in s thapp e t,,ii iiitt rence, which was i mmediately agre At to , the lt es ed to manage stated their Lord s hip s ' privt g, aikt insistod p4ticiiii:riy on the impropriety of re suirroK eit•crimination, but concidtled with consenting that lota hhz.vit.t E may also atteild to citapincti. T hep - CA'rIIOLIC PETITION. etition lien % read, un tilt M itirin Of Mr. r °x• that G entleman prefaced his Motion en the . 3t11 1"0 : with a nv i , t . cnmprehensive and enlightened areen sof above three hours, the substance of which vi.in a s as follOws : He felt .contlierable anxiety i n Ng t,, address the House on a subi,a•which ex. F;"tied in immediate itnicirtance, and in probable „;, -" „ se q u encesi sOine of ahem nearer, others more re --, 1 / 4 e, ant. 00,dr subject on which he ltakevee: he,,: . "re tlaiteed a hearing. But if tin thislbeSdot 4; relg t.'diattilinary agiratron, or, the other hand, he telt 1 1 1 . a mat agreeable duty. It was a recreation to 'Ht after the liaraSsing and painful task of accu. sap' after lahourine, -tO prpmute inquiries into !nranteFs that were riot heinourabte tvi the CLuotTY, ,/,Inote-enan they write to the individual who was ti r-t !'" l47 lY the 0 jettt of them; it was a relief, and • ", grateful restotalion to him, that he had 'now to ) 4 '4 the calse ..1 a great number of the Subieds of this realm-, and to suPt;ori for . them claims ' v ' l cii if granted,' I,voulo add strength to the °t ulitY at tare, wii.hout taking from the power over the liki authority , t hake, 'and .oiliest sati3faCtion Wlit'Act Empire, by removing the dise ten excited by the sufPringw di the ec o , - I,?i t rs ' at tile same tim e . that the relief afforde d t ; t art tvoaid I'e attended with ro buriben or in. f•,, tlte nienCe" in any other querter wh,stsoever• He ell relieved in .attemptin' g to draw the attention :_t o the House, and he was sure is would ,be.drawns a istthjeti k% !licit, however erhbarrasaltig it may , ,1 )t . to ts4tently with t e , . b°111e) however dubious it may be to ()tilers, their general views lime 4,1v.0f 'policy and " :f all, scribe of the Empire, m us t, i n t h e op i n i ons allowed to be of a magnitude and itn. 114nce worthy o f the highest consideration.— L otter th ese considerations he could not help feeling ', t a a ci l end he did feel it a high honour to be solicited , i i i„ ' r i l l; the 6Ubieft forward. The Petition was but it was true, by not a great.numher of persona 3 ettu'Llt eumprehenoed the interests of I-fifth, be believ. t a n ,' tyl:ty 'ay /*Lath, of Hi s Majesty's European wuJe4s. Fur he • • d t h e milliOne eon 3 or 4 7 :ll.l e4th 'ii" Irel.ind contained, formed a portion 'ot,.4l.l,s,4_lEtiesty's Subjea s ne arer to one-fourth than t u i,.` 4ll of the populati on of, Hie — Majesty's . h i ...1)."411 dominions, He therefore felt a particu. L- in in preSsing the claims of so respettable a --y, t . , . I N ~ , l'a liostile to the power of others, much , es comi t ,.'.'e safer y and liberties of the Country, but the e — „" g inili g relief and redress of grievance with l i r), oflietrtnation of the Present polier and autho -114,en t hthe to whom power and authority were' at Ittli t : rt ," f i 4 ed r and wi:h time best prctspeas and of the means' for the permanent establishment fiat h t should bath indepeudetice of 'all. If, there. ~0 .1 nee should sneered in persuading the House to 0 the r u jUllice i claim, it was an inctease of satisfac• 16 1 to . . tim e ti hi t hat ' Gentlemen' would at the same 1 e nd ifth i 3 a mos un essential service to themselves, 1 At lar,r.grilatl the general weal of . the Empirc,4 sa ty .t h en ." M. 7 be diffiCtlit to chuse in wlia t . part of ' o ftplo. sive a subjedt to begin. To him a l'hiTi a nd , et' th mute of preference arose, from the num ber embracer! he win) st thierebts the metier of the Petition of the nonit,arted * 4l ile ' B fin he did !not Suppo s e any controversy with respeft to the precise amount ~ of upiniv n um b ,Il he did not 'k:low that difference ~ ,•11,,,, it o n , exist e d nn .the salijea, he would look ahOuld e '. m4 tter nf astonishment that any difference . .','titinlher _ I : I " as to the propriety ' of placing such a ed 'Kin" ,une•fotit at 0 the population of the' Unit. the l aw F a _k r in en an equal fOoting, with respeCt to t i o,,,:fac: liherties Of the country,'Nvitb the rest il ad for .. length tiihjlas, With respell 10 whom they li4rdshi : 1 _ 'eugth ot time antlered-severe coMpitrative fir be Il anti diabiliti , Y exam , es. He' did .stippose there privation, 1 pies in history of similar severity of that th e ~t , "'. this otulti be stated Only to spew 51,1 sithert;.lciPle Of equatity of rights Was, like ti at of ieP,lr.,,ei,PleaS subjett to variation. The Arent huth„..'l.llun Was also insisted upon by some - e t it ii,„„u_littell when eircutnstanees should ren. Oily 6e , R tes, • but whatever differertces. there 1 4 44 4 th, ry Cietw• : • 1 • :,.. IN at ,,,,._ . easi.rtke t wo . princip ea, . tn. o "nie eaue:i'i right s th e effet'l teas the rimer What , case ,ft.,_'grits never to be taken away exept, 141 4 fi. 4tretne neer ' ' ne ve r . Vil t . 4.. " that ... ssit), and to be wath i_ Vile, ow. --cessit y ceased, others called pri. es% %lit, 4 Ya to be conceded by Government, un -Ipii„„e P t e i ullar ' circumstance a called for the -Crw - of t hem a 1 . 4 ' the se eir 3 iit to be immediately restored i t 't ditfetc„e, cun"tances should ho longer exist. 441:4% vat ,w - was rather it) words than In things. IQ e a ' a ° lh rn e Q t ` i , 7, 3 .01 considering rights, in one in. tiotihe rights'iant,s of the Subjetts, in the other th e c , the °f I t : Abe Government. He was illit the fatillioll that prevailed in ' 1 04 century, ace 1. ic4:::11:te, ?trp eitattrtwleia :ntdtethittica fa t prevailed h i . to , obligations ia t n h s e o r o i g : l i t ' e s . • tigh t3.. 4 "4l we re en . * to composed the society tut47,..vtisvest:rseue:_tlit tn:xiencli uattif .I:33l;u3s;r:itsitiel:9ruira.l iii u i 4' 4 414 10 'Nil instances to exceptions t _a_ 1. closets expressed Et 1 I Y. 11c1 • Y ti f righ4 . NI a di k . 4 if , the; . any men rof great au. () 'eh ntirnents of 'l6 *4O W u ill til t , r u e lv Wlll f t st'e . et 10 this. princ ip 1e.... 1 ""le, taut for %ilium lac !lad Catholic rights should not be enlarged beyond what their principles would warrant, to reconcile their tenets with his, who would not allow any part of their equal rights, privileges, and immunities, 1 . 0 be withdrawn except in case of absolute necessity. The only difference between him and those persons .could be, that they would .consider the degree of safety and expediency to grant, while. ha considered the necessity of with.bolding, the absolute existence of Which :could with him be the only justifica , ' don. They may consider. a slight expediency,. with a view to . .forego objeds sufficient to 'nu. thor:ze them .to deny what was asked of them, and . what was their's. to grant. • Be would think the 'safety of the Country ought. to be materially con. cerned before any portion of the public rights could be withdrawn, and ; that the continuance of that danger could atone jussify the, withholding of these rights. He would hope, however; tha.► ita.this,case such slight distindions would not be insisted upon. .The Catholics in either sense had. originally an un. doubted right. ' The Governosent,had trecpiently in. vatted that right by curtailment .and, restridion; What the general justice and expediency of these re. stridions %vas, it was not necessary now to inquire; but it was necessary to attend particularly - to the times in' history when these restriCtions had taken place. He did suppose that no man's mind .could be so made as to hold that festridion.could be justified On prescription. Prescription with resped to pro. perty 'was often the best . title ;' but that it should hold td:" ustify the continuance of restriction an the rights and liberties - of the Subject was a perfed solecism in politics. To defend the restraint by pressrition when. the' cause was..dxte away ; to maintain that iTslial - Wai imposed only on acc - .7mrt" of particular circomstances.. had .aequired• a pre. scriptive - right to eternal and oppressive duration, was in his opinion adverse to every principle of justice, of policy, and of .reason. If .a restriction had been ..laid on from the necessity of peculiar CiT.' cumstancts; when those circumstances ceased the re. stridion ceated at the same. time to be politic and • just; How far people much cuttailed of their. rights could he with ,security restored to what they had he. deprived of, was, he_ allowed, a proper question. He did•not think any mischief could hap. penin this case, 'though it was certainly the aced of lung restridion, to create such feelings as to render it difficult to restore the persons restric ted to their pro. per situation. . All restridions rested on political grounds. In the times -when these particular re. atridions were thought necessary, there were per. soh, who mixed principles of liberty with the' re. atrAintsthty thought necessary. . In the early 11111C8 of restriftion, the times of tliz,rbedi and James 1. the restriction was tlistina from any sinri. merits of religious bigotry ; Elizabeth had, in many Instances, a faith repugnant to Catholics, in others not so much so. That Princess had condufted herself in very' difficUlt tiniest .with a . wisdom, prudence; fortitude, and perseverance, which en. Aided hfr to the high esteem of The woad,- and 'constituted her one of the greatest charaatrs that adorned our history. She was fur the greater part of her reign at war with Catholics, particular. ly with the King of • Spain and the league of France.' 'ln these political cireum(tances it - was natural to fear that the Roman Catholic. SUbjeds of this Realm miesht- privately form connexions with Powers hostile to this Realm, and a system of eau. tiort was of course 'resorted to. In the following Reign distrust increased, and penal laWs were en. saed ; but with respedi to restriElions and disabi. litics,the RomanCatholies‘were favoured till a later period. Suspicion arose afterwards under the Stu. arts, which strengthened former jealousy. It was - matter of controversy with some whether Charles I. was not at bottom a Catholic. With respel., to Charles aloe was a strong belief that he was of that religion : that James it. was there could he no doubt. This was the occasion' why the K itb ~;,. ~~d ~~~m 1., ''9 rt Jt iS _ air :fr , tsf L, • I ("' • t; 'H~ ~~s~=;,. ;i~ ~"r ~~ '~ ;' f, 1 ;~. ,:Y