The Sun. — London, England, 1812-03-17 00:00:00

EIPERLIL PARLLIMEIVI. 'ROUSE OF PEERS; MONDAY, MARCH 16. The Bishop of MEATH (Pr. O'BFARNE), took the 'Oaths and his seat as one of the Irish Representa tive Prelates. The farther investigatio% of the claims of Sir J. Innes Kerr, Bart, to the Roxburgh Peerage, was, in consequence of what took place on Friday night, adjourned till to-morrow. Two witnesses were sworn at the Bar with re -13 Peel to their intended evidence before the Commit lee of Privileges on the above case. The farther consideration of the claims to the l'iogsiand Peerage, which stood fur to-morrow, was 'adjourned to the following ray. The Bilk upon the Table, cliieflyof a private •Itatore, were forwarded. , The Mutiny Bill was bronflt up from the Com thons by Mr. SWANN and other Members, .and read a first time, as were a few private Bills brough t up by S r JAMES GRAHAM, and °lila' Gen tlemen. STATE OF THE NATION. Earl GRosvENon-acquainted their Lordships, that it was• his iwention ere long to move for a Com rilitfee on the State of the Nation. As there was ti motion, however, of great importance fixed for Thursday, and another for a future day relative to the petitioos !ruin Ireland, he should not bring for- Ward his proposition before that time, but would Wait until those motions should. be disposed of. Im in the present unsettled and distracted state of the country, he should feel it his duty, at no dis tant period, to submit a motion to their Lordships on the subjea. PORTUGUESE ARMIES. The Order of the Day upon which their Lord- WO were suralmoned, viz :—for taking the Re. , gent's message - on the above subje& into considera tion. 'being read ; The-Eati of LIVERPOOL rose, and said, fc I cer , t ainly, my Lords,, feel it unnecessary to take up you!' time, under the circumstances in which the present lubjea coma before at any length in discussing i!s merits. What the Ales Sage of his Royal High ness the Prince Regent refers to, is a proposed con tinuance of that support and assistance, that was af forded by Parliament and the Prince Regent fo Por tugal in the last year. - On such an occasion, my -Lords, I think there can, be but "one feeling in this Mouse, which is, that what has been so given to t our'faithful Allies, - who have stood so honourably and steadily by us, under the most - arduous and dif ficult circunistluces,. was; an aid not given in vain, A ") on the contrary, that it has answered every Purpose that was—expeard from it. On former oc casions, your I.ol , Wps may recoiled, that the dis cussions of this subjea principally turned on one P9int, namely, the pra(.ticabiliiy of the object for • kliich the aid, was aff,irded. No man, however, P * ll o 10,1 s at the history of the country, in the st a'e of its enga g ements, as exibting for centuries, " 1 1 be but aware, that nothing was of more ina -I°ltance, or more affecting (save the iaimediate de tittee of this country itself) to the vital interests of Biitish empire, than the defence of Portugal; I meant, n m more iinpoant for coutental b objetts, pro vided it were ptacticable to at upon it. The question always must conic, as to the practicability, or chance of the prat'ticabilily of the object which Ave contend for. We now, my Lortls, have ample xperience on this subjeti, and that experience leads to this conclusion—th.t the defence of Poi tu gal under Lord Wellington, and acting upon the Principles of that great and distinguished officer; , and supporting him in his great and various exer tions, is an object practicable- to_ the arms of this country. The next qu.estion refers td that of sub 3idtes, or support given that way for the mainte tauce of her forces, and improvement of her mili tary system, and Low far that object has been ob tained, in rendering the military aasistance to be af forded by Portugal Independeut of the British ar a l ilies'. And, upon thin second object ,I likewise 3 aY there can be no difference of opinion. About two years ago, opinions were entertained by some I nert in Parliament, and even of 'Officers_ who had served in that country, that it was, impracticable to Produce a Portuguese force capable of co-operating With a British power in the way we see it was done. To their own honour, some of the Officers to whom I allude, have allowed their mistakes in that respect. Int what, my Lords, - I ,ask, has been the re ? With a view either to Portugal, to ourselves, or to the ultimate delivcraiice of Continental Eu- - tope, could her nations awake from their stupor ? We have seen a Portuguese force established under the general direcliOn of British Officers ; but I must accompany this by remarking, that' much may be attributed in thia respeel - to The exertions of Portua guese Officers. , We have thus seen a Portuguese force arise capable - of meeting in aEtion the most diStinguished battalions of 'the French army,. under its most able and veteran Commanders, and under the most critical and trying circuinstances. I speak upon the authority of the most able and intelligent °dicers. We have seed them Barossa intrepidly tscking a formidab!eforce of the enenty,advamage eusly posted, and attacking the flanks of that enemy. Upon that occasion, and upon every other, the Poi tugueae military proved itself equal to combating the Fondest battalions of France. I refer, my Lords,. to these leading considerations generally, feeling it would be a waste of your time to enter upon any particular details. These results, how ever, are established, that the defence of the king dom of Portugal is practicable, and that the Portu guese Government has aided most essentially in that defence. Under these circumstances, I can , not believe there exists a doubt in the minds of many men, that we are doing too much for an an cient ally—an ally always remarkable for the fidelity of her adherence to her engagements, and who, by her conduct under the pa, ticular circumstances of the case, presents an additional claim to. our assist ance and consideration.. Your Lordships are aware, that soon alter the necessary retirement of the Prince of that country, it was occupied by the French ar mies, and of the conseqmences of that occupation, the great difficulties which every where obtained ; and it cannot be a 'matter of surprise that under such circumstances, the objeals,. since obtained, could not be'aellieved at once, but by a system of pvrheverance and attention to the most minute de through which; the exertions made have been eiteolual for their vbjetls. tut, your Lordships would be much mistaken Wert you to suppose that the grants made last year, and now proposed to be continued, are alone sufficient. The Govertim,nt of that country applied, in addition to our grants, no less a sum than 1 - ,800;0001. for the suppoit and maintenance of its military system.—l think it right to state, my Lords, that we are not giving money for those who are doing nothing for themselves:— I shall trouble your Lordships with no remarks in addition upon the snbjeti, but to move the Address to his Royal Highness tbe Prince Regent, which I deem proper and - suitabfe for the occasion." The Noble Secretary of Slate then moved an Ad. dress, - corresponding with the tenor and ohjed of his Royal Highness's Message, and assuring him of the cheerful concurrence of the Huuse. On the question being put, Earl GROSVENOR, after protesting against his pre sent vote being regarded as any token of his appro bation of the condutt of Mioisters, even with re speta•to Portugal itself, observed, he could not but join in the universal praise so well bestowed on those dttinguished:cbaraders who were the obje6.l. s of the Noble Earl's eulogy. But considerations of duty would lead him to inquire in what situation the affairs of the Peninsula stood now, after ail the hopes- that had - been held out, however wise the system may be or not 1 ,We were in possession of Portugal four yeats ago, and at that time when that gallant and lamented Otlicer Sir .Jola Moore was direeled to proceed beyond the frontiers, almost into the heart of Spain, the consequence had been so ca lamitous ;, and now, though we were in possession of that part of the country, yet there was scarcely an important part of Spain that was riot subjed to the French arms. He adverted to the numerous forces of the Allies in .t he Peninsula, and expressed his opinion, that when such a force was contem plated, neither the country nor the people Would look with favourable eyes upon the result of the cause, unless i,,ore were done than has.been. Some great and combined efl'ort shon:d be, made that may terminate at once the fate of Spain and Buotiaparte. Let the vast expence of blood and treasure already incurred, be consideted. Not a man fell in the struggle whose fa:e did not vibrate in every heart of feeling. The Noble Earl referred to the relief which had been afforded to the Pottuguese in a former year, arid regarded the case as very different' since they were relieved from the, pressure of the Freack arms, and seemed to think that a portion of, the extiaordinary sum furnished by its govern ment, might have been applied to the relief of those persens who were reduced to a state of dis tress. Earl DAR LEY said 'a few .words respeAing his vote on the present occasion, which he seemed de sirous of not being construed into an approbation of the conduct of Ministeis ; but, upon the whole, circumstanced as we weie with recded to Portugal, he thought the assistance propw.ed ,should not be withheld. Eirl GROSVENOR briefly expktined. The question was tne.ll put and carried nem. dis. and the Address ordered to be presented - to the Prince Regent in the usual ct ay. Adjourned tnl to;rnorrow. • HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, MARCH 16 • Lord CASTLERRAGH took the oaths and his seat for the Borough of Plyropion. Mr. W. POLE gave notice that he would tomor row move for leave to bring in a Bill to empower the Coadjutors of Bishops and Archbishops in Ire land, to perioim certain duties ; and also a Bill to amend the Act of last Session, respecting- the Fa milies of the Irish Militia, and a Bill to provide for the Wives and Families of Soldiers volunteering for Foreign Service. - • The Dublin Coal Bill:arid the Indemnity all were read a third time, and passed. • The further consideration of the Report of the Irish Still Bill was postponed to,the IGth of April. Mr. WELLESLEY POLE moved for various Papers relating to the appropriation of -Monits by the Board of First Fruits, for the erection' of Glebe Houses in Ireland for the year.—Ordered. - The Offices 'in Reversion Bill and the Legal Quays Bill, went through CAnmiltees, the .li e _ ports of which were ordered to LK: received to.; morrow. • Tl►e Als relating to Pilchards, and the ALAS re lating to Glass, were severally taken into considera tion by a Committee of the whole House. The Reports to be received to-morrow; Mr. ABERCROMBIE brol4it up the Report of the Infant Suitors' Bid, which - was agreed to. The Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. COMMERCIAL R EGULATIONS. On the motion of Mr. RosE, the House, in. por suance of the Order of the Day,'resolveditself into a Committee on the Trade betweeo Jmn.iica and St. Domingo, and snbsevently into a Committee on the Bet muda 'rode, a'id into a Committee on the Canada Trade. In the first of these CommiVees, the Chairman was instructed to move the Hous , :s for leave to bring in a Btll to prohihf all intercoorse : between the INlaod of Jamaica and certain parts of the Island of St. Dontingo. In the second Cohn - nil tee, the Chairman was rn uaed to move the House for leave to bring in a Bid to allow I.3ritish Plantation Sugars and Coffee to be imported into the Island of Bermuda in British ships, and to be exported thence to the American States'in American ships; as also to permit certain articles the produce of the Ame rican Slates, to be imported into the Isiand of Ber muda inAtnerican ships, and to be exported thence in British ships, to any of bi t s Majesty's West India - Colonies. in the thiid Committee, the Chairman was instrueled to move the House for leave to bring in Bill to prohibit the importation of certain fo reign goods into Cauad.t, and to allow a Luger im portation of British Woollens into, Canada. The reports of these Committees were biought up se riatim, and leave was granted to bring in the're spettive Bills. An the motion of Mr. ROSE, it was ordered that the House should to-inoriow tesoke itself into a Committee, to consh!er the duties on mahogany imported from 'Honduras. • The Committee on Pot Ash was postponed to to morrow. DISTILLATION FROM CRAIN IN IRELAND Mr. M. FITZGERALD wished to knOw whether it Was the intention of the Right Hon, Gentlenhin" op polite, in tl:t remit state of Irelaild, with respe& to corn, to propose the prohibition of the distillation from grain, and the adoption of tneasures to prevent ihe export of grain ? .The CHANCELL O R Of Ille EXCHEQUEIt + S reply was wholly_ inaudible in the gallery,.but. w,,e-presunie that it was in the negative ; for _ _ Mr. M. FITTG ERALD give notice that on Wednes day he would call the attention of the House to the subject. PORTUGAL. The Prime Regent's Message respecting Portugal having been referred to a Committee of Supply, the House,resolved itself into the said Committee. Lord CASTLUREA9H, in rising to submit to the House a Motion on the subject, did not feel that*it would be necessary for hint to trespass on their pa tience at any considerable length ; or to adduce many arguments to shew the expediency of afford ingehat assistance to Portugal at the present mo ment, which had been sanetioned-by the approba tion sof Parliament, at former periods, when the ad vantages attendant upon it were by no means equally evident. Indeed the question appeared to him to be drawn into such a narrow compass, that it was scarcely possible for any one to doubt :the principle of expediency on which the proposed giant rested, unless one of the following propositions was affirm= ed, viz. that it was so fundamentally wrong to sub sidize any foreign power, that no application 'of that nature ought to be made to Parliament ; or that the state of the war in the Peninsula was that, notwithstanding the treaties by which the two countries were so closely united, notwith standing the glorious" successes of our arms, and notwithstanding the sale= faith which Parlia ment had so' repeatedly pledged on the subje&, no further exertion should be made by Great Britain, but that Spain and Portugal should be left to the dreadful fate which 'awaited them. Un less one of these 'two grounds was taken, he con fessed himself wholly at a loss to conceive how she present proposition could be opposed. It was far from his wish to re-agitate those topics which at former periods had given rise to much controversy. It was unnecessary to recur to those topics, in or der to sustain the motion with which he should con clude. Nor would it be politic to recur to them ; for he was persuaded that if the Committee should agree with him in thinking that the same pecuniary support should be extended to Portugal as, was given in the last Session, they would also agree with hint in thinking that it should be done with as much unanimity . as possible; for whatever differences of opinion might have ekisted in Parliament at a time when the experiment of assisting Por tugal had not been tried, now that it had been tried and proved successful, he trusted that a general disposition would ultimately be mania fested to mark by an unanimous vole, the ap probation with which the British Perhament re garded the exertions of the Portuguese in the com mon" cause and the fidelity which they had mani festO under those numerous circumstances of ex treme peril and difficulty, to which the various for tunes of the war had necessarily exposed them.— Without, therefore, dwelling'at any length on the 'topics to which he had alluded, he would just csil to 01. e recolleCtion of the Committee, that when the pi inciple of the present proposition was broach ed o veers ago, a ,great disposition existed in Parlimnetit to doubt whether any military exertions witieb it :might -lend occasioually to Portugal, could be eltituately successful. Many Gentle men of high military tharaCter seemed inclined to believe that the Portuguese army, which it -was the objeft of that proposition to raise and subsidise, could never be brought into such a state of disci pline, as to render it efficiently 'serviceable. The division on that occasion exhibited a strong feeling in the minds of a great number of Hon. Gentlemen, that the encouragement in a military point of view held out by the preposition, was by tio means ade quate to the expense of it. Those, however, who enjoyed more intimate means of judging of the probable result, pressed the vote on the House ; it was passed, and in the course of -the year tire efforts made in Portugal in 'consequence were such, that in the next Session of Parliament, -even those who had opposed the proposition in the first instance, candidly - allowed chat it had been productive of the most advantageous results. Accordingly, when the proposition was agars brought forward, these who voted against it in the first instance abstained from a repetition of that vote ; representing however, at the same time, that although they admitted that !he measure had produced,great advantage, yetahat after all, the efforts of the combined British and Portu-' guese armies had ended only in shutting them up itr the lines of Cintra, and leaving the enemy in posses sion_ of the remainder of Portugal. - At least the Committee would feelehat this obstacle to an una nimetui expression of sentiment was removed ; for the vote of last Session had enabled Lord Welling , ton to drive_the enemy over the frontier, and expel them wholly from Portugal. P.alament therefore was now called upon to contemplate a system, not Which, might lead, but which actually had led to the most brilliant success. The Committee, in com hig Loth: consideration of the present Resolution, wou:d be divested of all those difficulties which had - heret.ofore existed on the sUbjea. He would, how ever, m die a few observations on the principle up on whici, ,the present proposition rested. If ever, there was a question of subsidy which could be maintained on sound, legitimate, and justifiable grounds, it was this. Li the first place, it was subsidising a power with which we were connected by a kind of natural feeling. Indeed, it could hardly be censidered in the light of a subsidy ; for the measure afforded such effeauel aid to the British army, charged as that army was with important operatiOns, comprehending otir own essential inter ests, that the money tight with poaoriety be voted on that view 'of !he subject alone, and without any particular reference to Portugal, for it was impossi blenof to admit, that those splendid exertions of Lord Wellington would have fallen very short of their existing extent had that Noble Lord been de prived of the support of that pate of the army which had arisen out of the policy, on which the present proposition was founded. That such was the true clienteles of she Portuguese army was felt by the enemy at Busaco, who considered it as British, and attributed it to Lord Wellington as a stratagem of • war s that (or the purpose of alluring an attack, he had clothed the British soldiers in the Portuguese uniform. Ariother ground for granting this sum was, that it would be applied and administered snider the inspeSinn of tritisli Ofgcers. Netter had any stab , sidy been 'afforded, for the faithful application of which such complete.securuy existed as 'this 1t he Government of Portugal. There was another ‘.iew to be taken of the subjee. This was not money granted to Portugal in *exoneration of any chatges which •he Might faitly be,expeaed to bear' herself. The Government of Great Britain had been accused on former occasions of unnecessarily subsidising to , reign powers. BUt this remark was not applicatole to Portugal. It waS asaiisfatiory and interesting fad, and one which he was sure the Committee would learn with pleasure, that such tad . been the fmancial exertions of Vortugal. that at the prr,ent moment, after all the effeEts of the war, after te country had. been in 'the temporary _ro,,sessiOn . of the enemy, and drained ev , n by that t , -rup()rary possession, the revenue of Portugal applicabl.. , to the prosecution of the war was at a higher point than before the commencement of - the cbhtest. The Portuguese Government was in the actual collodion of a greater revenue, and cherished hopes that b 1 measures now in progress, that revenue would b . : considerably increased. They came to the Britii) Parliament only to assist them in making, those ertions adequate to the great cause in which the tW . .) countries were so deeply interested: On thewhol , therefore, he trusted that although there might be ground for doubting the expediency of such a pro- . position as the present, when originally made, yet as the experience' of the two last years had ci , m 7 pletely disptoved the soundness of those apprelien- shows, the Committee would, by an unanimous de cision, mark the feeling of respect which They enter- - tained - for the exec Lions, and for the fidelity of Per. tugal; for it was a prond circumstance" for that country, that when it was overrun for a lime by the enemy—when the British army, aduated by mo tives of profound' nilitary policy, retired is To:rt s_ Vedras that they might aga i n ad v a nce w i t h greater effe6l—the faith of' the Portuguese. remaiced. invio • late; there was npt the most momentary adherence on their part to the enemy; they submitted to all the military inflidionS which their firmness occa sioned; they bore the devastation of their count:y without repining—and in - no single. ibstanc..! 1 , 1 erc theyfalse to the common interest, The Noble Loral. then concluded by moving the following Resolu- tiOn "'That it is the opinion of this Committee, that a sum Pot exceeding two millions. sterling, be granted to his Majesty, to continue in his Majesty's pay a body of Portuguese troops and to grant such further aid and assistance to the Govern. meat of Portugal, as the nature of the contest in which that country is engaged,• :my, appear to require." Mr. FREEMANTLE denied that the Noble Lord had satisfied his mind with respect to the propriety of the proposed grant. • The Noble Lord had stai verted not to the general state of the war, but to the particular state of Portugal. To ,all that the Noble Lord had said in praise of the exertions of Portugal, he heartily subscribed. But he could not allow an additional hurdler) of two millions to be imposed upon the country, without bringing back to the re collection of the Committee the, original object, for the avainineet of which this grant was in the first instance voted. That object had failed, and there fore to continue such grants, was merely to persevere -:_in a system of, lavish expenditure, from which no „satisfactory result could be eke peeled. When the first , grant of this nature was proposed, it was to afford British aid towards . rescuing Spain from the gripe of France. At that time lid concurred most cordially with the whole country in the effort. But four year elapsed; and nut an inch of ground having Men gained, he had a right to alter his opinion on the subjea. So far were we from having emancipated Spain, that we have not a single man there, nor could we en. tertain a rational prosped of making any impression on the enemy in that quarter. He put it to the Committee, whether it four years ago the merely remaining in Portugal had been described as the ul timate object of our effOrts, the proposition to make those efforts would have _been received with that adelamation and support which actually accompa nied it ? In objeaing to the present. motion, he felt that he trod on ground not most popular just then; of course he should have to contend with the Gee tlemeteepposite. He should also have to contend with many with whom he was in the general habit of political accordance. But so strong was his con viction on the subject, that he felt it imperative upon him to express his opinion. He had patient- ly listened to every argument and opinion con neaed with it, both in Parliament, and in private so ciety, butfiitherto no:one had been able to persuade him that, under the present circumstances, Great Mitain ought to persevere in a system so lavish, that it - must eventually lead to her utter destruaien. It was on the ground of expense, that he argued against the motion. We had failed in every etEat we had made to drive the enemy from Spain. :•We had failed, not :from any want of coutage in our troops, noefrom any want of in our officera, but from a want a want of co-operation on the - part of the Spaniards, from a want of that assistalice which we expected from theme and which we, had a right to expel. In the present atate of the Coni mittee he would not enter into any detail's alt he War i n the Peninsula ; hut he would implore them to pause before , hey fruitles-ly exp en d e d two nations of - der publicmoney. .Let them consider, that two millioe3 was near one sixth of the produce of the lecteee Tax. Let them look at the enormous expenditure of the country, and 'endeavour to devise the means ofdiminishing, ratlrer than of augmenting it. Tae present annual expenditure of Great Britainamortiii ed to nearly one hundred Millions! The Hon. Gentleman would defy any Minister to maintain the present - expenditure of the country, with resources so diminished, and the trade and commerce simi lady circumstanced. He need only refer the Rigl,t Hot). Gentleman to what he had satttd last year, when proposing a subsidy for Portugal--when at the same time, there was a• petition front the manufac• tuiers, complaining of the decay of trade, and prsyr. ing some relief. On that occasion, the Rght Hon. Gentleman had said, that it was impossible to afford the relief prayed for, until Buonaparte had tattered prohibitory Decrees. Since then the Ruler of France had increased them, and therefore the situation of the country in that respect was worse. Under these circumstances he should most earnestly recommend to the House to adopt economy—to diminish the expenditure, and make it more commensurate with the means of the country, The Noble Lord had stated that the revenue of Pot tugal was materially improved since the former subsidy was voted by Parliament. If so, she had no right whatever to