The Sun. — London, England, 1852-06-05 00:00:00

Mr. ADDERLEY observed that he did not think uniformity eeptece attainable, or, if attainable, desirable. e M r. E. DENISON rejoier d that the power had been onf erred on th e genera l and not on the local legisla tures , • Tne G enera l C ounc il wou ld h o muc h more a - "el to settle th a t pr i ce w hi c h was f or th e b ene fi t o f 8 e°rat nilnity at large; nod he trusted that the price here se t would he followed in dealing with our othe t r colonies. Mr• P. SCOTT did not think that this Bill wculd ped i n settling what was the proper and sufficient of land in New Zealand, and suggested the poet r°onetnent of the Clause. tt J. ?ARINGTON could not accede to the proposi °4 for of Postpeoement. With reference to the question res tee. Post -office raised by the Hon. Gentleman. the f;tumittee would see that the regulation of the Post aLacsevas in all countries a matter of Imperial concern 2it was here, and be could see no reason for any de parture from that universal practice in this case. Mr . P. SCOTT sa id h e wou ld mo ve ,that the words i 4 lee u4t 'ornee" be struck oat. And after some discussion, in which Mr and P' PEEL said that he had only suggested, snot mean t o move hi s p ro p os ition relative to the die_ P OB Bl of the public lands. The amendment was negatived without a division. Ili r eply to an observation from Mr. V. SIIITH, as to rine? differenc e b e i ng likely to arise in the legislation Petting Europeans and natives, lee PAICINGTON said that the whole spirit of se e Raul was to lace the natives eel the same footing as . t 'u ti e s,. E "°Psan in - habitants, and he should be very sorry' th e in the Bill should lead to a difference in the•t,egislation applicable to the natives as distinct from vtropeans. Perhaps, then, the Committee would "` t he r matte stand over for his further consideration. T he e , clause was then agreed to. C lauses 20 and 21 were agreed to without discussion. 1 0 . n elsuse 22 ° f l u!. F. PEEL suggested that one-half the members qu o om council was too much to be requisite to f orm a /ea. & S ir J. PARINGTON consented to reduce th e amount -° ne-third, and The clause as thus amended was agreed to. Clauses 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, and 28 were agreed to with- At discussion. wh O i n clause 29, relatin g t o th e per i o d of time during eh the Govern or m i g h t di sallow a Bill passed by the ' e ltialative Council, Vie, MOLES WORTH thought two years, the period tasted in th e c l ause, was too long. Ho would suggest ° or three months. rlio After a short conversation, in which the general opi af the Committee appeared to be in favour of a n e e . ll shorter period than two years, to' nr PAKINGTON consented to reduce the period thr eeh months. f a c b, e clause thus amended was agreed to. 810;! e uses 30, 31, and' 32 were agreed to without discus ell Clause 33 ncil, , limiting the number of the Legislative hae Sir e PAKINGTON said that in deference to what tiC e b een stated in the early part of the evening by oet;',72 l e Lord (L or d J. Russell) he meant to strike Co Words limiting the number of the Legislative Co macil Sir tie of W. MOLESWORTH said that the great object el eth - se cond chamber was to obtain the conservative steC e ent .,tand create a proper balance in the powers of the merely- liut neither of these objects could be attained b . y halv e introducing nominees of the Crown in the Legis enee Cuu nc ll - For the nominee usually lost all influ tard with the people after his appointment, being re- Ilueeed only es the tool of the Government. He would vier e i t et) therefore, that instead of the nominee system, Ze al v jas most unp o p u l a r both in Australia and Now the they should adopt a system somewhat like that se eted e United Status, where the Lower House repre sented e t e h e Population, while the - Upper House repre thooektua district, province, or state; and he further lee e rt that the members should be appointed for eight Offi ce ' w ith a provision that one-half should go out of %tat? four years. !his ei:" . °WATT was of opinion that if they retained ?ein e " Il ee--if they determined upon the Upper House 4 014„...aoreinated by the representative of the Crown, ves til ,we L r Perfect the Bill might be in other respects, it had De utterly valueless for the objects which they W 4 e t ti r• ah h el j; ri eseßTEß looked upon this clause as an abortive seem °} attempt to make an imitation of the 4 0.44 e t. Lords. He hoped that the Hon. Baronet the lioe r i t t f or Southwark would persevere in his opposi . , list.sibrVituty of the said he would much prefer the re the Government itself than of its nomi create I le thought th a t the clause, if carried, would Strpele mischief and disturbance in the co i lo h n I :,"INGTON said he had heard w t . some d s melt 1 8 ,a , : "on. Members say that this clause involved Qin timPortant principle that if .pressed the whole tuo s n t nici be valueless. He thought they wore attaching Was, a - ex aggerated value to the clause. His answer tai t e, did not believe that such was the opinion enter (ihf,„,/3!ltt3' colony under the protection of the English c elled When the Hon. Member for Tavlstock e t , itti . thi s mi abortive and bungling attempt to make tiatie t a tt ole of the House of Lords, the only construe entW w ( Sir J. Pakington) could put upon such a state 'toeal a% that the Hon. Member had never taken the gvi %% B % f inquiring into the present constitution . of oa d °B° , colonies where free institutions existed. as 'ante te . Members opposite were pressing upon him * lthis Pernn ent which had hitherto never been tried afeyi, u the British dominions. He had no hesitation in che ne g th at nothin g cou ld i n d uce hi m t o c onsent to the °Piet' a e ec r °Posed.—(Hear, hear.) He had the strongest Pollee ;; 1;11) ° ,1 ite It was observed that the plan pro toe) dietvred in the United States. He (Sir J. paking vdth e e „„..:, /t 'say that it did. not; but this he said, that Donee to - J re sPeet to the United States, he was not e _C l lear g° there for precedents upon this subiect.— ques e ' v ea r.) Re referred to the institutions of his own ‘ ll ° IV and he would there look for his precedents. olopiwieou tonfo.rß.aatrionet opposite had brought forward no ar . - elective Upper Chamber which in his axe eut n would not equally apply to an elective Crown or t'olo ba " lve ,Government. He thought that every British Laotle' r nn gnt to be a reflection of the institutions of the "a„eln e- er e nntree , so far as it was possible to make them 'llat e eelY bad. no precedent for au elective Upper t m th• a e r. The Crown nominates the Upper Chamber 40 ti• s i- Co untry, and in every colony where free institu ,eoradc4ist the same pri nc iple was carried out. They nc t , he confessed, make the anology close and r ally uut this was certain, that in their colonies gene they gave, the Crown the nomination of the cl ose ors of the - Upper Chamber, and this was the l a ten analogy they could have to the Upper Chamber tla, : l l ° mother country, the only difference being that ta t), 'guides conferred on the colonies were not heredi the_, as they.were in this country. In North America ti re were no less tha n five representative constitu els, re t at . "fie Hon. Member for Tavistock appeared to o f get this fact. They were the constitutions of Canada, leele Brunswick, of Nava Scotia, of, Prince Edward's th k nd, and of Newfoundland. If they go to th e E ast , "Y wo lel fi d that with the exception of the convict Col • se -a les and British Guiana, which has a peculiar con, which had been given by the Dutch, in every Gated having t w o chambers the upper one was nomi bY tt a P Crowe. They had precedents before them 1 , 0 such constitutions being in existence for hundreds of h ars. There was no doubt a case which perhaps might f. 9 e o urg g! 4 en exception—he meant that of the Cape of that -- ee "v e • - e(lear, hear, from the Opposition.) But had w as n ©axception; for it was a constitution which yet only besent out there the other day, and was not • S t :P le e• He would not be a party to the adoption %h ut ? course but that which goes to assimilate the in- Fl a Pris in the coldnies to those in the mother country. taeou.iangreed with Hon. Members opposite as to the fren:%tieal advanta ges which they argue would result leelot" adoption.of the principle which they advo c ate. Prop„! l ',,ed upon the' upper chamber, constit u t e d as h e Cp u ru, as a most wholesome ch e ck u p on the nacre pal branch of the Legislature—standin g b e t ween t h e rt e th e > rig represented by the Governor, and the people. ital e ° light they would find a much better ch ec k i n an bodendent body of men thus nominated, than in a ele c t ,o,f Men who derived their existence from th ose w h o te e ; t°er representatives in the lower branch of the ii ii t t ature.—(Elear, hear.) vih a F. PEEL thought it was very natural that they tion sknew ah by experience the advantages of their institu , e lec nicely balance and so j,unoy stlroportioned, 111°,4 desir that their descendantst only there, but NZ, colonies, should participate in this boon. They nit f ; e l however, to give not only the form, but the sub. ILL ,',°f the British Constitution. The great practical 1 0; a t - e' a ge of an upper chamber was to afford ample time te te te consideration of important measures, and to p d re p - - elea"„hasty legislation. Another great advantage teCu'e from it was to prevent the Crown or its repre tod i t etive from coming into collision with what appeared the se the will of the people. If they wanted to e ees_ Powers efficient they must constitute a body pus le7ad of inherent force and vitality, which would curet the i t:etid the respect of the country, und enlist besides d Housesterlriie of the people He could well understan the cif Lordi exercia . in a ower of this kind with ciency, because they were a p body of distinguished ;t a n ; possessing large territorial property or otherwise acterised by the valuable se rendered either by t hemsel ves or their ancestors to the country. But what t Z,erablance was there betwe en the House of Lords and e m e's proposed upper chambe r ? It was to be nominated iphe governor , but there was no condition of eligi pieltY required. The governor w as to select whom he to n4e d, and such a body so chosen was not likely th_conitnand -the respect of the country. By this Bill te Z clembers of the council once chosen were to hold Now, though elected at first by th e a life tenure. independent of governor they would become altogether et th e th at - eovernor, and would constitute a Close oligarchy, 00 most probably would obstruct the business of the tttatry instead of advancing it. When the Right Hen. th e ' re cni ct referred to North America, he would remind eol e -4 aial t hat there had been recent changes made in th e teo" constitutions of North America of an impor a" character. An agitation was lately going on Whenget the people of North America to alter or amend n iet tn6 Y called their system of irresponsible govern eet.4s--"n gevernment that was said to be composed of s° sins w ho Possessed a majority in the Rouse of As- At o „?• In Canada, Nova &Teen and in British North tea,ist,l""c this. system a irresponsible government was we re he established. The vticancies in the c - aincil tilt! no filled up by the governor, upon the advice of fe e tae who recommended a r f_u tl ee to their abilit persons, not with re- Cease and position in the colony, but party se . it was alleged that they sided with their own Ch u ! view*. He said, therefore; that the effect of this pe e , u n ge .. i e n the constitution had been still lower to de the T .. character of . those councils, and to deprive th eto. et that respect which ought properly to attach to Ned 4h4Right Baronet said that he must be o 1: "" 144 already established, and he THE SUN, found that wherever they had appointed legislatures with two chambers, one et them was always nominated. Now they had an extensive colonial empire. They had but in the provinces of B ”' r it it o is n l: 7in Norththe EastA er l ic n a d , ie e s it ' am pies of a legislature with two chambers. If, however, they looked to the . West Indies they would find that neither in St. Lucia nor Trinidad was there a second chamber. In most of these colonies he admitted that the upper chamber was nomi nated; but he contended that there were peculiar rea sons for ,tee councils being so nominated,. -which reasons could not in any way apply to the case of New Zealand. In the West Indies the Counciloonstiiuted not only the upper house of legislature, but they were also members of the Privy Council and the Executive Council of the governor. Now, no one could suppose that the Executive should be elected. The council of Jamaica was cotneesed of eleven persons, three of whom were ex officio, and the eight other members held the chief offices in the executive depart• ment. There were reasons why the council in these places should be a nominative council. But what was the course taken by the House of Assembly in Canada? They passed a resolution, declaring that the council did not possess the confidence of the country, because it was nominated, and they prayed that it should be elective. Then they had the provinces of British North America and New Brunswick. In British North America he could not say that the people so entirely acquiesced in the form of their constitution as the Right Hon. Gentle man had represented. Last year, in New Bruns wick, the House of Assembly passed a resolution, and pre sented an address tothe Crown, in Which they said that the Legislativ e C ounc il ou g ht to be made an elective council. He did not know whether their, prayer had been assented to, bat ho know that the Governor of New Brunswick had last year prepared a measure upon the subject, the consideration of which the council postponed until the present year. New foundland, too, had last year presented an address in favour of a responsible government and an elective council. In Canada there was kept up a constant state of antagonism between the two chambers. As an illustration of this state of things, he referred to the measure on the subject of the clergy reserves. Would it be believed that in nine consecutive sessions the House of Assembly had passed a Biil for the seculari zation of clergy reserves, and ten times it was stopped in the Legislative Council. Such a state of things was owing to the fact of the Legislative Council being nomi nated. If they were not nominated the Bill would have passed.—(" Hear, hear," from Sir J. Pakington ) These were reasons which were calculated to make them doubt whether the precedents relied upon by the Right Hon. Baronet were of such weight, and whether the present was not a good opportunity of trying the experiment of making the Upper Chamber in New Zealand an elective body. Mr. WALPOLE said there was one illustration in the remarks of the Hon. Gentleman, and one observation which were sufficient to justify the Committee in adopting the clause. The object of an up per chamber was to form a safety valve against crude and hasty legislation; to prevent the le gislature from reflecting too rapidly the premature opi nions of the people, while at the same time it raised an effectual barrier against any pressure of the Crown upon popular liberty. If . that was the object of a second Chamber, as he apprehended it to be, then the very de fect attributed to the clause under discussion by the Hon. Gentleman opposite was an additional reason why the Committee should come to a vote its its favour. In dependent of that, however, the precedents furnished by his Right Hon. Friend afforded sufficiently ground for the adoption of the clause. It was perfectly right and proper that the political institutions of all parts of her Mejesty's dominions should be assimilated, and he (Mr. Walpole) was astonished to find that censure was cast in colonial matters upon those institutions which, ,as ap plicable to this country, were always the subject of so much praise. but which Hon. Gentlemen were generally only too willing to abandon as applied to the colonies. And he would add that if it was wished to encourage the best class of emigrants from the mother country to the colonies, that object could not be better effected than by securing to them all those laws, habits, usages, and customs which they enjoyed in the home they had left.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. AGLIONBY agreed with the Right Hon. Gen tlemen that, to give something analagous to the House of Lords, would be to give encouragement to the best class of emigrants. He did not object to a second body in colonial legislation; but he asked the Government, was there no other mode of creating it than that pro posed by the clause, which was the blot on the Bill? There was no resemblance to the House of Lords in the council proposed in the clause. The best qualification would be a large property one, not dependent either upon the Governor or upon election. The system of nominees wae, in his opinion, the worst that could he imagined. The moment a man became a nominee he be came a suspected person in the colonies. Mr. ADDERLEY thought the nomination of the body in question for life was the saving clause of the Bill. In reply to the Right Hon. Gentleman, he (Mr. Adderley) begged to say that every principle in the history of English colonization was in favour of an elective upper chamber. Tee colonies of North America had had such a system, and they were the first colonies in the world. The statement of the Right Honourable Gen tleman that the constitution et the Cape of Good Hope, in respect of this feature, was sub judice, made him (Mr. Adderley) tremble; as the withdrawal of that feature would convulse the whole colony, seeing that it was the most popular in the constitution. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman entertained no view of altering that constitution. If the clause, however, were to be a sine qua non of the Bill, he (Mr. Adderley) would not object to it; though he certainly would prefer an elective upper chamber to one named by the Crown. Lord J. MANNERS supported the clause. It seemed to him that Hon. Gentlemen, in expressing their views on colonial constitutions, were too apt to look upon them as perfect productions rather than as experiments. The objection urged against the Upper Chamber in N e w Zealand might be also urged against the popular assem bly of that colony. The question to be decided, how ever, was, would these colonial institutions effect the same object as the :Analogous institutions in thg mother country. The highest duty of statesmen in these days was to provide constitutions for the colonies calculated to effect the same results as had been obtained by similar means in this country, and he (Lord J. M.anners) be lieved that the constitution under discussion would pro duce a chamber far more independent than any that had been suggested by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. For these reasons he hoped the Committee would accede to the principle of the clause. - Mr. V. SMITH. was astonished at the change of tine in her Majesty's Government. If there was ene thing more certain than another, it was that the elective principle was the most popular in the colonies. This was what would make the constitution of the Cape of Good Hope the model for all future colonial constitutions. He (Mr. V. Smith) was surprised at the horror of the Right Hon. Baronet at American institutions, when he saw the Bill contained a power of creating six email republics. All that was wanted was a double assembly for the purposes of deliberation, and if the second was formed on a Alf- , ferent principle of q ua lifi ca ti on f rom the first, that was all that was wanted. In every colony nomination had been the main question of dispute, and he (Mr. V. Smith) implored the Government, therefore, to re.con rider the question. If they did not do so, it would be the duty of the Committee to assert at all risks the elec tive principle adopted by that House. Mr. MO WATT said the consequence of not making the upper chamber elective was this—that instead of our colonies being the outlet for our sobs and daugh ters, 99 oat of every 100 emigrants went to the Ucited States instead of going to our fine colonies. Tice explanation of this circumstance was this—that we had been accustomed to legislate for our colonies, oven to the minutest matter, instead of leaving our colonies to manage their own internal affairs. Until we altered our system, and gave the colonies real self-government, instead cf talking about it, our colonies would never prove a relief to the mother coun try. The American system of election had worked well —no man could deny that; and that was the reason why he had alluded to America and the American in stitutions—a circumstance which had given so much horror to the Right Hon. Gentleman. He would not take up the time of the Committee in exposing the ab surdity of ooreparing this House of nominees to our House of Lords. Is resembled the House of Lords only in matters and qualities which were neither useful nor suited to the interests of the colonists. Ho was not without hope that the Right Hon. Gentleman would lay aside all idea of his being committed to this Bill; and, as the Right Hon. Gentleman had not had much official ex perience, he could hardly feel hurt at a proposition to alter one part of the measure. Mr. ANSTEY wished to know whether it was desired by theorists in this country, or by the colonists, the es tablishment of a bastard House of Lords in the colony— for a real House of Lords was impossible. He asserted that the nomination principle tended to exclude landed proprietors and respectable persons. The lauded pro prietors were all in the elected House, and were nearly all democrats. He was satisfied that no gentleman of character would bo found to sit in the nomination Rouse—the colonial House of Lords. There would be nothing but clerks, adventurers, and that class of per sons brought into notice by Mr. Thackeray—" Snobs." It the people were trusted, they Would repay theconthfie dence reposed inT them. Distr us t t h e people,and worst consequences would follow. It was this distrust which had produced the rebellion in Canada ; it was the proposition fora nominative council whi c h h ad nearly produced rebellion in Australia, stud would, he antic& pated, produce discontent in New Zealand. He contended that only one House was expedient and necessary. si r W. MOLESWORTH would move that the clause be omitted. Sir J. PAKINGTON denied that he wanted to create six republics in the colo a n y The Bill had been discussed in a very fair spirit, nn h . e hoped the spirit would pre vail ' throughout. The Noble Lord the M , mber for Lon don had a d ver t e d to the question of a nominated chum her, andahough ho had not spokea riie velrlypider for h decidedly, said, though inclin e d t o agree with' ,still he did spea k in favour owfth p . Grey: in prelerriug an elective u p per ch a mber, st ill he dd+.'li ' ietfeel L d o i: d po b se a d d to endange r th e Bi ll on that points The h Noble listened stated th a t i n di stinct terms. (Hear.) al attentively to the discussion but had heard not h i ne r support the sta t e ments that the principle of a nornulat: d chamber. was di sapproved of by the colony. On the contrary, the petitions which he had laid en the tehle all said that as the Bill was, sci the p e titioners hoped it would pass. He w ou ld remind the House that not only Canada and :the West Indies were legislated for on the acme principle, but two years ago, when a new constitu tion for the Australian colonies was under discussion, that constitution was re-constituted on tee principle of a single chamber, but also that the principle of nomination was to be still retained, one-third of that single chamber being nominated. lie retained the hope that the House would continue to act as it had hitherto done, and that differences of opinion would not be permitted to iuterefere seriously with the mom. Sir W. MOLESWORTH considered when the dis cussion was entered upon it was understood that the mi nority was to give way to the majority. He was anxious the Bill should pass, and, therefore, he hoped the mino rity would give way to the majority. If the Govern ment should be in a minority on this question, he hoped they would yield. Ho was prepared to carry out the Bill without offering any factious opposition ; but if the Right Hon. Baronet held out a threat to the effect that, if the upper chamber was made nominative instead of elective, he would throw out tho Bill, that, he con sidered, would be a departure from the previous under. standing. Sir J. PATiINGTON freely admitted the fairness( which had characterised the proceedings of the Hon. Baronet. He would, however, beg to remind him that at, the commencement of the discussion he had an nounced to the House a number of Important alterations ho made in the measure, principally in deference to the wishes of other Hon. Members. But, having made this concession, he did not feel justified in denying himself the privilege of exercising a discretion on the part of Government when an important principle was brought into question.—(llear.) Mr. WALTEIt said he entertained strong objections to the clause, and he thought delay would be of little im pel tanco compared with the establishment of a constitu tion for Now Zealand on sound principles. The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the clause ... ... 132 Against it ... 89 Mejority The clause was then agreed Co, and so were the clauses up to 67 inclusive. On cla.uso 68, relating to the powers of the assembly to make alterations in the constitution, Sir E. BUXTON said that nothing could be more dangerous than to give a power to the colonisti to esta blish any internal superiority of themselves over the native population. He hoped some words would .be in troduced to limit the power of tho General Assembly in such a case. Sir J. FAKING TON did not think that the Legisla ture would desire, or that the Governor would allow, of any such superiority; but to prevent misconception, he should consider the point before the bringing up of the report. The clause was agreed to. On chime 71, which provided that the Queen and Go vernor might cause the aborigines laws to be maintained, Mr. ANSTEY thought that the amendment of which he,had given notice was preferable to the clause as it stood. Sir W. MOLESWORTH wished to direct the at tention of the Stcretary of State to the immense power which the clause would confer. on- the. Governor of New Zealand. Under this clause the Governor might se lect any district in New Zealand- and convert it into a "native district, by establishing native laws and customs therein. Atter a few words from Mr.. Walpole, Sir W. Moles worth, and Mr. Aglionby, The clause was ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 72, which gives a power to the General As sembly to regulate the sales of waste lands having been proposed, Mr. F. PEEL said he believed that the clause was wholly unnecessary, and would give, no poWera which were not already conferred. He would therefore suggest that it should be omitted from the Bill. Sir J. PAKINGTON said that the only complaint of the Hon. Gentleman against the clause was that it was mere surplusage; but he (Sir J. Pakington) would rather that that complaint should be made than that any doubt should exist as to the object and effect of the measure. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he wished to know what security there would exist after the passing of that mea sure for the payment of the loans made out of the Im perial Exchequer to the New Zealand Company? Sir J. PAKINGTON stated that those loans bad been cancelled, upon an understanding between the Govern ment and the New Zealand Company. Ho should add, that be earnestly hoped that the old quarrels between the company and the Government' would not again be revived. Mr, AGLIONBY said that the loans had been can eelled under an arrangement entered into in the year 1847, by which the company gave up their claims to a vast tract of land in the colony. He entirely agreed with the Right Honourable Gentleman the Se cretary for the Calonies, that it was most desirable that the old differences between the Government and the New Zeeland Company should no longer be remem bered or discussed. After some further conversation the clause was agreed to. Clause 73 was also adopted. On clause 74 being proposed, Sir W. MOLES WORTH rose, and contended that it ought to be struck out of the Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had no objection to the postponement of the clause. Mr. AGLIONBY observed that the two succeeding clauses ought also to be postponed, inasmuch as amend ments had been prepared and sent to the Colonial-office, with a letter setting forth the grounds on which the New ZSelancl Company founded its claims, and which amendments the Secretary of State for the Colonies had certainly not had time to consider. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no wish to press the Committee to proceed further at that momint, and would suggest that the Chairman should report progress, and ask leave to sit again on Thursday next, afier Supply. The House then resumed, and The. CHAIRMAN reported progress and obtained leave to sit again on Thursday. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it would be for the convenience of Hon. Members if he stated that he proposed to take Supply on Monday, and the Metropolitan Burial Bill and the Water-works Bill on Friday evening next. On the motion that the House at its rising should ad journ to Monday. Mr. ANSTEY rose amidst loud groans and cries of " Oh." Hon. Members (said Mr. An3tey) must know from long exPerience that that sort of thing would not go ro d o r ag n ain w s i t th a, h l i t m tia .— t. him.-(Oh, oh, and laugh ter .) He w as p h o t f e t r h . ) e i x e c h wishedquer to draw the attention of — t ( h ß e e C ne h w a e n d e to the subject of c ert a in papers long p romised, relatin g to the disgraceful business of the expuls ion of Protestant Chancellor missionaries from the Austrian territories, and contain ing the Earl of Malmesbury's acquiescence in the pro ceedings of the Auitrian Government. These papers had not yet been laid before the House, and be now begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman to use his in fluence to obtain their production. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he believed the papers must by that time he printed, and as soon as they were ready he presumed they would be laid upon the table. Lord D. STUART wished to put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer respecting some papers which had been laid before the House that day with re gard to the outrage committed upon Mr. Mather, a British subject, by an Austrian officer in Tuscany. It would ap pear from those papers that her Majesty'aGovernment en tirely disavowed th e p rocee di ngs o f Mr. Scarlett in t hat case. As he read th e Papers, Lod Malineshury entirel y disavowed Mr. Sea r l ett , and was not a t all satisfied with the arrangemetue which h a d b een entered into by that gentlemen with tb e T uscan Governmen t. He trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would inform the House whether he was ri g ht . i n so read i ng t h es e dispatches. and whether it was the intention of the Government to take any further stepit to obtain redress for the outrage. committed on a British subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER must say that he was rather surprised at the inquiry of the Noble Lord. The Government had laid upon the table all the Lepaversasked whict h re a l t at o e p d in t i o on hthise was sub o form,ectiandyet andthe Noble what conclusions he was to draw.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The papers would soon be in the hands of every Hon. Member, and he must ask the House to form its own opinion upon them. He was confident that that opinion would be satisfactory to her Majesty's Govern ment, though he would not answer for what might be the opinion of the Noble Lord. All he could say was, that the Government had fulfilled their duty in laying the whole of the papers on the table; that there had been no reserve on their part; and that the Noble Lord was now in a position to form his own opinion upon the subject. Lord D. STUART said the Right Hon. Gentleman did not seem to understand his question.—(Order, order.) He wished to ask whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Ministers to take any further steps to, obtain redress for the outrage committed on the person of Mr. Mather? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his answer was that they had placed on the table of the House all the papers relative to the subject, as also a dispatch deseribieg the ulterior steps that her Majesty's Telinisters were prepared to take on the subject.—(Year.) Mr. MILNES thought when the papers were before the House, and when the question was repeated, the Government would be able to give a satisfactory answer. SUPPRESSION OF BLASPHEMOUS ASSEM- BLAGES. Mr. WYLD wished to kno* by what authority as semblages of parsons in Bonner's-fields were dispersed by the police of late? Mr. WALPOLE replied that the question had been previously answered. Information was received at the Home-effice that parties lectured publicly on blasphe mous and profane subjects, to the great annoyance of many; and instructions were accordingly given to pre vent such assemblages, as they were prevented in Hyde park, St. James's, and other public parks.—(Hear.) The question that the Honse at its rising do ajourn to Monday was then put and carried. In g -BillB,A t i o E vv B h S i A ch G t ll hoi E r ß L O or M dsh T i Kelvin Bridge H ps E ha L d O a ß g D re S ed . : . A messenger from the Lords brought up the follow- A St t) . b il ey ele ir n i ' n s to G r af.aGn r sg o:orviku o 4e w :B6 ; bere a roit n iutra d g.Rh o o t ß h a e da r sil.w W a o y r: s. LU M ol i vn d ed d r ;e : s n b (n r Ce o i t t i V: g ati a cra n r d lla Sharpies and lloghton Road. Shields and Morpeth Roads. Merthyr Tidal Waterworks: SoMersetshire Central Railway, without amendment. Mtnehester, Sheffi?ld,nnd Lincol ns hi re Railway (1-.) London Gam Light Company (Amendment of Acts, & c .--No. 2). - Port-ush Harbour, with an amendment. PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION BILL. The second reading of the Bill, was negatived without a division. TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL. pa. sed through Committee. PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the queition that this Bill as amended be Con sidered, Mr. BROWNE moved the insertion of a clause giving powners against the decision of a power of appeal to shi passengers' agents. SATURDAY Sir J. PAKINGTON opposed the admission of the clause. Mr. BROWNE considered the clause of vast import ance, and as such should be admitted. Tho Hon. Gen tleman moved the following proviso :—" Provided always, that whenever the owner, charterer, or consignee of the ship shall be dissatikfied with,the decision of the emigra tion officer, in any matter in which such decision is rendered authoritative by the provisions of this Act, then and in every such case it shall be lawful for the owner, charterer, captain, or consignee to apply to two justices of the peace having jurisdiction in the port, and suchjus goes or one of them shall by order under their or his hand appoint two disinterested persons having acquaint ance with the subject-matter in whi c h suc h d ec i s ion may have been given, to hear th e appeal o f t h e owner , -charterer, captain, or. consi gnee aga i nst such dec i s i on; and such two persons shall ret urn t h e i r determ i na ti on upon such appeal in answer to .suc h order, and upon suc h determination the .justices or -justice shall make such order as to them or him shall in the premises seem meat, and such order shall be final and conclusive." Mr. HENLEY said the clause' was brought forward on very extraordinary grounds, because he had brought forward no C33CB of,difficulty.that had arisen under the existing arrangement. He belieied the giving such an appeal as that proposed would .ba a great curse to the shipowner. Mr. A. • HASTIE and Mr. MOFFATT supported the pro viso; and the House divided r , For the proviso ... 25 Agaihst 73 • Majority against the proviso • -48 Amendments were then agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time On Monday. • The Turnpike Trusts Arrangement Bill was read a third time and passed.. Mr. ANSTEY moved the second 'reading of the Cor rupt Practices at Elections Bill (No. 2). Mr. ADDERLEY objected to.a measure of so much importance being discussed at so late an hour, and moved that the debate be adjourned. • Mr. KEQGH saiddt was a very reasonable arrange ment that the present :hour (half-past one o'clock) was too late an hour for discussing important business. He should be glad to know what was the opinion of the Go vernment upon this point. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think any stated rule could be observed in such • eases, and at the present period of the session they.must make some sacrifice in order to get through the business that was essential. As the measure_ proposed by the Hon. ü ber t k i r t Y would uh ai be v q as u i te lik ri e g ly ht to to create pd a n oi ee L ei e st i. a o r e n , e d h e M t Mr. SADLEIR complained of the unreasonableness of the Attorney-General for Ireland in not fixing some time fcr the discussion of the Irish measures he proposed to bring forward. Many Hon. Members had been in attendance since twelve o'clock the previous day. The debate was then adjourned. The Suitors in Chancery /i•lief Bill was read a third time; some clauses were added by way of rider, and the Bill was then passed. The Trustees Act Exteniion• (Stamp Duty) Bill was re ported. . • . The Trustees Act Extension Bill went through a Com mittee. The Savings Banks (Ireland) Bill was read a second time. Mr. KEOGH moved the adjournment of the House, and took that occasion to coMplain of the discourtesy of the Right Hon. Gentleman .the Attorney -General for Ireland, who would not giv.e.any .promise -as to the time when he would proceed : with what be must con sider a Coercion Bill for Ireland, the Right Hon. Gen tleman having stated. that he would proceed with it at any hour of the night. He could assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that he would neither expedite, public business nor promote his own or• the i n t erests of his party by acting with sick discourtesy to war d s Hon. . Members for Ireland. 'He could tell him that he would be met with opposition at every step. Without mean ing the least offence, - he could assure him that they would insist on being treated with the same Courtesy as other Members, and - that he would not be allowed to proceed with important business at that -hour of the morning. The Bill, besides, was one that ought not to he entrusted to a provisional Government. Mr. NAPIER said the Bill' in question was to con tinue an Act at present in force, and he was therefore surprised when he heard that the Han. and L earn ed Gentleman meant to oppose it: Ere had distinctly told him that it was his intention, at any hour th e H ouse would allow him, to go on. with the Bill. When the Hon. and Learned Gentleman Mentioned the arrange ment that had bee n ma d e with the Chancellor of the' Excheqer, as the leader of the House of Commons, he of course submitted. : This he could say, that he ' would treat every person in that House as a gentleman, and neither threats nor anything else would divert him from dein.. what - he believed to his duty as the fir s t l aw o ffi cer of e the Crown in Ireland. Mr. ANSTEY said the complaint his Hon. and fmor a t o t i o t n n to i a s s i3 ul t , h t e n o p y u r n p Learned Friend m a d e was, t h at h av i n g appli e d f or in aodsenooft tghievenit;and he believ e d Government with re gardthey were fishing for a night when_ they would have a majority to enable them to carry. the measure through its stages. He thought it would be better for the Go vernment not to attempt to make-a show of carrying a measure which they would never -be able to pass. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said they had no intention of advancing the Bill a stage, as it had been already postponed., He must say that it was not to the honour or credit of the _House to allow their discussions to close every eveniu with these unseemly brawls, which bad now become almost chronic:—(Hear, hear.) It irould be much 'better if they would give themselves up to the transaction of public business with good temper.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned e h -o e f se t e ho th m e orni_ Member for Youghal had not the slightest ground for unpleasant. He believed the the remarks he had made; but he must say he was alWays 's complaint. was founded upon a misconception. and that 'he had no good prompt an t d o i L n e tr a o rn clu o c d e m se e m m e n th er inf or Athlone did tim use 'of continuing the morning, If -Irish Meth: , bars were to ao home when English, business was dis cussing, and English Members to go to bed when Irish business was on, that would not.. b e _ d g i r s ° c u ti u s ( l of for at ; t n li o a r t the proper way of carrying on the business of the nation. The measure' would not be brought forward at•tetime when an oppor tunity would not be afforded of fair discussion. Mr. SCULLY agreed that it was a great waste oftintie to discuss matters that could not be advanced that late at hour of. the night: Lord NAAS reminded the Hon. and Learned Mem berber for Athlone that when the Measure was originally ut forward 1847 he had supported it in every stage. The House then adjourned at T wee o'clock. -4.---:SJune 4. LAMP IN TELL intcrloe a-- NCB. I G HOUSE OF :LORn - (Before the LORD CHANCELLOR, other Peers . ,) erd 1311.""Alf' and AND OTHERS. THE DITILE OP ATHOLL V. Ton r , * • First Division of tho Court of This appeal is from an an action of declara blic highway;which, s h p t o h n e d ir en r t i s gh to tt c o a u rr s y epaea c 00 , sustaining the s g e t° ,r3' judgment of the torl°too of s t t b abl r i e s lies between Blair Atholl, i n , but in the county of Aberdeen, , w hi ch habire, and Braemar through Glentilt, the provrty ea in its, course passes the appellant. The point involved in -g ake of Athol!, touch the merits of the question of tii t he appeal does not to travel by the Glentilt-road e right of the public preliminary technicality raised . ha new w " in the nature of to defeat the action, by denying thf, the al ° appellant. d e nts to sue. tide of th e respona The material facts to the point,' a counsel on both sides having been' eo '44 the argument of . The LORD CHANCELLOR,' in EClOViia4Cluded, the Rouse, remarked, that in the co g 0 4 judgment of ment at the bar, considerable stress h a r a s° •Qf the argil legal difficulties of the case, h et ate , been laid on the would find that it did not turn out, to be all the House portance in point of law. The merit s r',„ one of • real ini.; ther Glentilt is or is not a public hi ovv 4 the case, whe in question. The simple question i s, i., 4 7, was not now suers have the right to sae in the characters"ntr the presented themselve themselve to the court a r a civ in wh they of contention had arisen as to wh at a . A good deal averments made by the pursuers in_thdr-as the effect . al olarator. .It was strongly insisted that - ,thinnions of de to prove the use of the road by the riti „" wall necessary them to maintain their right of acti n ; nra to enable terlocutor of the Lord Ordinary, confirm' 411" that the in• of the First Division, was in effect a de 1 1 the Lords question against the appellant. That l e d r 4 ien of that 1 derable discussion at the bar, though it now Beet very admitted on on both sides (that is 'the 0110 . 8 ? enied to be doubt, the other admitting) that that questi on did not concluded by the judgment, but that the Pure" Was not by their own declarator averred that they had having road through Glentilt, they will have to used the Pro, in tile course of further proceedings, which ma: that fact in the court below. That re lieved the rich tse be taken considerable difficulty; and he believe d thatta from a been admitted at the bar was tho law of S eet i s iTat had judges in the 'court below may decide that .it • The necessary in swill an action of declarator as the present not that there shOuld be arty use of the road by the3resent suers, and he apprehended that- that question - would not be at all concluded by the presena judgment.f law As the case now stood,: the House was relieved from difficulty; and then came the question whether, .akin the this the averments as they stood on' the summons, theeetaking ment showed a title by which the pursuers coula aver- Referring to the description in the summons sue?* found that Alexander Torrie was an " advocate, he siding in Aberdeen;" .Robert Cox, " writer i , re- Signet, residing in Edinburgh;” and Ch ar l es r the Jaava a ~ merchant, residing in Perth:' Take the na me of : i. latter, for example; he resides in the very " II " through which this road passes; and it was moreover ty averred that he had himself paid conversion ea v statute labour money under the Act of Parliament .for r e a. luting and converting the statute services in the ectt , Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there was 1 1; law against their right to maintaie -the actian it would seem that a right was stated. The statement of the con descendence excluded any question; for in th e came _ seendence they positively state' that they hair() all used the road, and that they cannot, proceed from one ter minus to the other unless they go round by a circuitous route of some miles. SupP o3 ingt heso facts to be Proved, there was a very diff e rent case from that which w as the eubjeet of contention at the bar; for there it was . made an abstract qu es tion, namely, can any one of ner M a . ieslY's subjects maintain an action of declarator not having used the road? If the averments were proved, tho present case*ould - really come so much within all the authorities which had beta cited, that he appreh en d e d there could b e very Scot. lit t le question. The whole difficulty arose from th e diff eren ce Of the laws o f En g lan d and Scot land in reference to questions of this nature. In England I no difficulty can mho like the prese nt, because here (We have a remedy b y i n di c tment; any- person can proceed by indictment to try a right of road on behalf of . . the public generally. • teas But there was no suc h i., , mode o'Z estehlishing n right b (Pinion i s wh-y ett:eer ltw of Scotl an d and therefore, the the t m ht ode adopted in the present cane is or is not l aw f ul. cordance wiAla the law of Scotland,there , et s h-aoanaoa other mode of which he was aware b y which a co p , e s r t s i who i had merely a right generally cou ld try the admitted that the right o f way contended fore,wirsea:mriwghast in the public generally ; it would, therefore, follow that every man wa s en titl e d to v i ndicate his right.to It was not denied that he m i g ht d o so i n the case of i special obstruction, but th e question Was whether any could by the law of Scotland do so by action of decla rater. Why should he not ? There might be incon venience in doing so, but that would arise from the de fect of the law itself in not having a remedy by indict ment ; btrt that defect could not take away the right. It was not denied by the appellant that a gre.z.st many people coo exorcise the right, but it was attempted to limit to certain classes of the public the right of vindi cating a public right of road. It would be rather sin gular if the law of Scotland had placed any limit on this right to vindicate. In the course of the argument, when this was so strongly insisted on, he had requested the Learned Counsel to hand up in writing the propositions contended for as bald on the authorities. To this he should presently refer ; but he would see how stood the authorities. It was contended that all the cases cited only showed a right on the part of the public to a certain extent, inasmuch as in these cases the decisions wore in favour of certain individual:, or classes interested, to institute an action of this sort. Then the question was, could it be logically said that the right could only be maintained by persons having immediate connexion with the road? If there was to be a limit of the right, then what was to be the limit? Was it to be a yard or a mile? Where were you to draw the line? But in the appellant's argument on the authorities it was contended that a case could not be shown in which a man simply es a member of the public had maintained the right. Bat he asked, was there any case in which it had been denied, and the answer was " No." The authorities, case by case, showed that the right of vindicating a public right had been maintained, and they were all against the appellant. The authorities cited failed to show that there was any limit in the right. That the exercise of such a right might be attended with inconvenience he was ready to admit, but it could hardly be called a practical one—in convenience had not resulted in practice. And he really believed that it never would do so, for men would not go to try actions of declarator of this nature who were not naturally connected with the locality. There could be little doubt that the application of the law would be confined to those persons who, according to the admis sion at the bar, were clearly entitled to maintain an ac tion. Inconvenient, it might, no doubt, be for persons who had no connexion with a locality to bring actions of this kind, but the danger was as great, or greater, on the other side as shown in Campbell's case (as we under stood) cited in.the course of the argument, were an owner of land may maintain an action against the pub lic. But a court of law could not be supposed to deal with extraordinary imaginary cases of this eature—a nature not very likely •to arise. If there was any abuse of the law it would be sure to be corrected. Suppose, for instance, that the appellant had brought an action of declarator, with some view of obtaining a decision against the right of the public to use the road in ques tion (and were there any persons ha would have been more likely to fix on than the present pursuers?) no very serious inconvenience could have resulted. An notion might be brought, but the question would coma before a jury, cad then there would be very consider able damage to the persons who instituted an improper action. Ho then came to the question whether this right of vindicating a public right by action was one that should be extended to the public generally, assuming for the moment that the question was actually before the House. He thought there could be very little difficulty in disposing of that point. In the case of " Tait and Others v. the Earl of Laudtrdale ' (5 Shaw, p. 330), a great deal of discussion- arose whether servants were excluded—that was a case where a road having been shut by a decree of the justices, a summons of reduction of the decree was brought by nineteen persons, of whom ten described themselves as being " servants" in Lauder and its neighbourhood. Servants, not householders, wore held to have no title. But he could not see how that case bore on the present point. It only went to show that a particular class of servants did not form members of the public, that is to say, that the public are a more limited class. As re garded the question of public right, the question just stood where he did before. Tait's case, hoWever, had an important bearing on the general question. Several of the pursuers there were described as being merchants in Lauder, and it was impossible to read the opinions of the Learned Judges without coming to the conclusion that the right to bring the action was acknowledged, not simply because the pursuers were merchants in Lauder, but, being merchants there, that they ,were a part of the public, and,; had,a right to sue. Every case cited was, in his opinion, in favour of the pursuers' right, and against the appellant. When the Learned Counsel were asked the question, they said the right must be either patrimonial cr local; and they seemed very much disposed to contend that it was a servitude. It was no such thing. A servitude was ono thing, a right of road another. It had nothing to do with a dominant tenement or a servient tenement; but the question was whether the road had been dedi cated to the use of the public. If it had been so dedi cated, why should the public not have the right to sue? That this was a patrimonial right could nut possibly be maintained. That it was merely local was equally un tenable, seeing that it was impossible to fix the limit. When he asked the Learned Counsel at the bar to state the bearing of the authorities on this question of limit it was said, in the first place, that theco authorities had not determined the extent of locality or precise limits, but that the Court had ne gatived the right of the subjects of the realm generally to sue. Now, that was not correct, for the Court had not negatived the right as stated, and they had certainly done nothing to show a limit, as each case was in favour of the pursuers. It was next said that if the limits were now for the first time to be defined, it must be to persons adjoining the locality (so wo understood his Lordship). It was only necessary to hear the propositions that were contended for at the bar to see that the question of limit was not a matter capa ble of being settled into a rule. And indeed why should such a rule be established? If it is found that the inha bitants of a particular town or district have a right, why orb ow should any limit be placed on the exercise of the right because some of them may be beyond an imaginary circle? It seemed to himtquite clear that any attempt on the part of the appellant to limit the right to sue on local grounds had failed; that it was a contention that could not be maintained. Ho did not apprehend that an affirmation of the interlocutor of the Court below would in any way prejudice the question on its merits, for the question would jest stand as it stood when it first came to the bar of their Lordships' House. The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by moving that the interlocu tors appealed from be affirmed and the appeal dismissed with costs. Judgment accordingly. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. TlslES.—There is all the difference in theworld be tween the use and the nbuse of a model us also bet a faithful and merely fanciful imitation. In general, when when the two spheres present. more points o o i r c, t entrest than of comparison, it is better not to attempt; pre tend an imitation, which cannot but deceive. Vic o- pee . warnings are particularly needed, as it aro': ob vious us,. in the . very natural and praiseworthy en 2 deav r o s u t r o a whin Eaglishmen will always make to transfer the idea of our own inimitable Constitution to the eases of our fifty colonies. Here are Ministers telling us gravely that they are giving a House of Lords to New Zealand. Why, what is our House of Lards? A House o Lords is not an institution of a natural nod universal character, like the parental relation, for it so happensth does not no reis t no corresponding institution in th e world that present the widest and most fundamental differences. The British House of Lo n r o d t si o s n the h ereation of near 1,000 years, and represents, ut .,o many et eleme l nts of k stability and power. t represents e . hereditary and historical prestige, p ie() r ller s a o n. e -h La ra t n h immediate influences of the Crown and of the dominant party, payty, military and diplomatic talents, the highest legal wisdom and probity of tho ago. It varies oven from one day to another. Enter the House in the morning , and you will see a legal tribunal; in the evening , and y ou will see a synod of divines. On Monday you will find our great territorial nobles discussing the rights and duties of property; on Tuesday you will hear field • marshale, ex-govereors, and Indian eommanders-in chief discussing colonies and wars. Perhaps, however, the most remarkable feature of this body is not the variety, but the gener al paucity of Cie attendance. On almost any evening you can mention, according to the written proceedings i of the House it has been very busy, and you might mag,ine five hundred Senators had been busily at work. In fact, hove ever, the attendance has never exceeded a dozen, and has sometimes been much less. There have been long and important siftings of only three or four Peers. What is the meaning of this spare attend ance? It is that the . House of Lords works more by it s v e to than by its initiation. It has been compared to the College of Augurs which every now and then interfered, and on some idle pretence, but possibly some good reason, forbad further proceedings. The House of Lords is, in fact, the ballast of the state ship. But it is the ballast because it is independent; because it is an cient, hereditary, rich, and venerated; because it is the object of an al most su p erstitious regard; because it can throw out half a dozen Bills sent up from the Commons in one week, and address a strong remonstrance to the Crown the week after; because a peerage can not be taken away, or conferred without weighty reason. Such being the British Home of Lords—an in stitution which many great and enlightened. States have attempted in vain to imitate —what is the use of pretend ing to create a House of Lords in a colony, or defending any equivocal institution, by reference to the model of the mother country? S3y, if you please, that there mat be another House besides that of the reFtsenta tivea—that there mint be an . Upper House, or that there must be a House representing property, legal offieial experience, and even into infltlenee; but to out twenty respectable .men . late a rood and call them a tiouee of Lords is a chimerical and Illusory Echerno. It is better to start . with..lut a name, or a model, that is certain to mis.eau. The colonies them SCiVC3 are far more likely to . . know what they net an d w h e t is possible in their circumstances, than ' are hampered with the ideas we have bee n oern and The question to, and w hich we see realised aro un d a ,; a , i , quest i a a is, what . do the colonists want? and v probably the beat judges themselves on that paint.e' arete As little ase: ' i7l f course they don't want dukes and earls, because, first place, they cannot have them.theyt.'jhe want a House of pure nominees, we should think,uo_. that the Governor himself must necessarily L seeing so a House of nominees is wholly have a veto, Superfluous, In the 5, 1852. earliest and rudest phase of the British Constitution, the Peers were not subszantially or generally nomi nees; for under the feudal system there was here• ditary rank and office, there was oligarchical influence, and there was th© power of combination. • The barons who extorted Magna Charta were not nominees. A colonial Governor, of course, v, ill have his council, and that counnil, for the preparation of measures and the dispatch of business, will consist of nominees; but tact is not an Upper House. If a second House is renlly necessary_ and we do not dispute it—what is more suitable to the condition of a colony than that it should he elective? The particular pcttern, or principle, we do not venture to sug,f,;est; probably it would differ in diffe rent colonies; but she Upper House would generally be elected with a hi g h er qual ifi cat i on , an d, as i n th e U n it e d Sates, larger constituencies. But let us know cer tainly what the colonists themselves want. A skyish adherence to our own models, and still more, a more:y Pretended adherence, not enough for use, and enough for deception, cannot Possibly be the way to permanent co lonial institutions. RAILWAY INTELLIGENCE. LONDON, BRIGHTON, AND SOUTFT COAST. A special meeting of this company was held yesterday at the Bridge-house Hotel, London-bridge, for the pur pose of submitting to the proprietors a statement of the proposed arrangements with the Crystal Palace Com pany; Mr. S. Laing in the chair. Several shareholders complained that they had not received any statement from the directors with refer ence to the question intended to be submitted for their consideration and approval. They stated that they were kept in perfect ignorance of the course the directors in tended to adopt up to that moment; and, before hearing what the chairman had to say, an opinion was expressed by Mr. Herti.path, Mr. Levy, Mr. C. Bell, and other proprietors, Clot, after hearing the chairman's statement the meeting should be adjourned to give time for the consideration of any proposition ho might think proper to submit. The CHAIRMAN said, that if after the statement he had to make there should be any difference of opinion with respect to it, there could be no objection to adjourn the meeting, and, in the meantime, send a circular to each shareholder, stating the arrangements proposed to be entered into, and the arguments of the directors in support of their .recommenations. They were all met for ono common object —to promote the interests of the company, and it was necessary they should have a clear understand ing of what they proposed to do. Ho also suggested that a paper should be enclosed to the shareholders re questing them to say "Yes" or " No" to the proposition. That would enable distant shareholders to express their opinions and save the expense of proxies. There were about 4,000 shareholders in the company, and circulars had been sent to them respecting the Crystal Palace, and he had received but four letters from gentlemen against the scheme, and three out of the four had ex pressed themselves satisfied with a short explanation hs had sent in reply to their objections. Oa the other hand, he had received the approval of 600 shareholders in re spect of the proposed measure, by their taking shares in the Crystal Palace Company. Ho then detailed the circumstance relating to the removal of the Crystal Pelace. from Hyde-perk, which bad led to the proposed arrangement with the Crystal Palace Company. He stated that the site at Sydenham, on their railway, had been selected as the best and most convenient of 21 other sites in the vicinity of London. The selection of Sydenham led to a competition with other companies who were anxious to secure it for their lines, and the result was that a premium of from 70,000/. to 80,0001. had been offered to the gentleman who purchased it if ho would - consent to break off his proposed engagement with the Brighton Com pany, and thus enable him to erect the palace in an other place. This offer he declined, feeling that it would not curry out the object he had in view of choos ing the site, and rebuilding the Crystal Palace in a su perior style, making it in every respect worthy of the public object for which it was originally designed. Sy denhatn having been chosen as the best site for the building, it became absolutely necessary for the direc tors to take the matter no, and make as good an arrange ment as they could for the benefit of the railway com pany.—(Hear, hear.) It was first proposed to erect the building on Mr. Laurie's park, which, on measurement, was found not to be large enough. Tee only other site was that adjoining Mr. Laurie's, belonging to the deputy chairman, Mr. Schuster.—(Bear, hear.) When they fixed upon that site they communicated the matter to Mr. Schuster. The first thing that gentleman said was, " If that is your determination I will not name a price for the land; I will leave it to independent parties, land valuers, on both sides, and you shall h ave tor the Crys tal Palace." He (the chairman) would say that if they secured the Crystal Peleca for their line, they would have to thank Mr. Schuster for it. In the first instance it was proposed by the Crystal Palace Com pany that they shout(' have a_ certain guarantee on the capital required; but this was refused on the part of the railway company, although he believed that had they done so it would have been but a nominal guarantee. The directora felt that to do so would be taking the shareholders out of their legitimate course, but they saw no objection to making an equitable traffic arrangement. The Arran Cement, subject, of course, to the approval of the shareholders, was, that the receipts, including faros to and from the Exhibition and the price of admission, which would be paid in one sum at the London station, should form a joint fund, out of which would be taken in the first instance, a certain portion of it to cover the the expenses in relation to the traffic to and from the Exhibition, the remainder to go to the Crystal Palece proprietors until they received 6 per cent. on the capital. In the first place, the railway com pany would be allowed 4 per cent. on any outlay they incurred in providing additional accammodation for the Crystal Palace traffic. For this purpose a short branch would have to be made from the railway to the interior of the Crystal Palace, and to lay down en additional line of rails on the down line, which, sooner or later they would have to make to accom modate the increasing traffic on the line. They would have to enlarge the accommodation for that traffic at London-bridge, which they could do by removing some offices and by building up the arches from the ground below, at a cost of 7,000/. They had already on a part of the line three lines of rails, viz , one line down and two up. The additional line of rails on the down line which they proposed to lay down would enable them not only to accommodate the Crystal Palace traffic, but their present short traffic. The cost of laying down the fourth line ot rails would be 50,000/. Tho expenses of improving and enlarging the station would be about I 25,0001., making together 75,0004, which at 4 per cent., would entail a charge of 3,0001. per annum in respect of the proposed traffic. Ile then stated that an amicable arrangement had been come to with the South-Western Company, by which the latter would construct a short line as far as Mitcham, and there join a branch from the Brighton line of 2 4 1 miles in length, which this company proposed to lease at a rental of 8201. per annum. This arrangement would enable them to render unnecessary a proposed junction from Wandsworth to Croydon, which would have seriously interfered with their traffic had it been sancioned by Parliament. By this amicable ar rangement the South-Western Company would be en alik' to bock passengers at Waterloo and Vauxhall sta tions for the intended Exhibition, but their trains could not come • further than Mitcham without the consent of the Brighton Company, and the Brighton trains could not go beyond Mitcham without the consent of the 'South-Western Company. The distance from the Wa terloo-road station to the Crystal Palace by the South- Western Railway would be 15 miles, or about half an Loaf's ride; and by t h e B r i g ht on Railway from London bridge about 7 miles, o r a bout a quarter of an hour's ride. .If that online-era-cult should g ive their neighbours h a share of the tree°, and accommodate the phsbliecdattothee west end, he would be very glad, aa they t good friends, and perhaps they wouldra ffifoc e r i e s:a t i l i t s i h satisfied ed f t r h om at they were not excluded from the the attraction of the new building. Byy th weouairdranfigrestment with the Crystal Palace Company the de duct 0,500/. or 3,0001. from the receipts o f the joint fund. The remainder would be divided into n o four parts, for the the Brighton Railway Company would tho working expenses of conveying the passengers to and from the Exhibition building, and the Crystal Palace Company would take the remaining three-fourths until they amount to 30,0001., which would bo equal to 6 per I cent. on the proposed capital of that company. I When the receipte exceed that amount the ex cess i s to be divided in the proportion of three-sevenths to the railway company, and four-sevenths to the Crystal Pa lace Company. He then showed that if the admission mo ney, including fares to and from the Exhibition, did not eseed is.—and it was not to be less—they would I have for conveying 480 i tt a t the n pe rate ci . al train o f 6 6 / d . .f for e r t hmeillea per miles, train, t fepo h i pere:trPa,shedamismacc passengers mile per would sh g i b oo a n t ß s k ii b i cga n e. hr, Lwonas'slsC^l2l - per mile per train. Th. 6d., er sc t r u ti h. h E o a n o i n te th a rn o s pt m ," o eny r y e ,sw t t h oru an alind t s h i 1 averagee 3vlef t 1 h2eas. u6 r ind ee . to the expenses, the average p' ,r In on ile th P e Id 9' d c . oy cover They the. Brightsn Railway was §.s. 9/1., st.hledr., afore,atid seee %ile a S t h a - I N I V ow e s a t n e c r (i: would o th n e t expenses. It was clear that if they travelled b w lin o e ald 3 , 3 7 , the ordi nary trains they would fill the carriages that which would be also an advantage to the comN‘pereyenapty then showed that 40,000 pe.sseegers would an- . no charge of 3,0001. for a whole year on the ca pay the first to accommodate this new traffic. That ve piltal required number of otitd be a less passengers than the average n for a single day at the Great Exhibition— t rber of visitors ber being 43,007 persons. When the ea . verage num point of the arrangement to receive y arrived at that the divisible fund, they would receive three-sevenths of the passengers to and from the .. E, . tneir full fare for 9 , 00,000 persons at ls., or 600,000 zoiLition. So that produce 45,0001., and give 30,6001. at Is. 63, eac h. wou ld - P proprietors, and le ave , after at to the C r y s t a l Palace them. If 1,000,000 pass enger a, addits pat in expenses, 5,000 L for he had me nt i one d (600,000) . ion to the number the railway palm— r Would were conveyed in the year, t of 32,0001., and the Pal-co Cons: an additional sum then stated that the att; e • monpaey also 43,000. 0 1 . D ' ll} de-park h a d given then " I ° 3 of the Crystal Palocl in 25,0001., and he thow-'a.additional trellis in 1 0 that they would have 4 j et it reaFonable to supe; fares from other parts of th IlL'.e • Dortion cf traffic at fall fa` at Sydenbam, ind eir lane to and from t ament with the Crystal Paleee Cnizependeut o! the arrianns) d out olher sources of traffic which pan - y. td li b e:als t o ! l e d u by the Exhi bi:ion on their line, n eeevitohubeentered induced into an eluborate and gloving description o' w e, - 11 ELt i was intended to be ex hibited in the new building, anti the admirable manner in which everythino• would be ca-rangedt and classi fied. He considered that a large traffic would be derived from it without any risk whatever. In conclusion, he stated that if the majority did not approve of the ar rangement the meeting could be adjourned, and the mattery. r would b e su b m itt e d to the proprietors at large. Ile then moved a resolution to the effect that the arrangements entered into with the Crystal Palace Coln- ( 11 a , - I~`~ ,~ r pany be, and are hereby apprcßicViairl^*!thopi z in,,,sh, directors to carry the same into. effect, - • 7 Mr. HERAPATEI was of opinion, -t4ai kretr i carried the resolution it would be ilf?Tgal.—•- They4 ou ld not carry out the propossd amigo:dente F. Act of Parliament. Mr. - LEVY raid he did not approve of the scheme. Ha held 300 old shares in the company, and had alway s a high opicion of the chairman until he appeared at the head of the Crystal Palace Company. He feared that he would now mislead them. He could assure the chair man that he would rather vote him 1,0001. a-year in additive to his present allowance than he should be engaged in any other undertaking to divert his attention from their interests in the Brighton Company. Mr. HERAPATH thought it was utterly imnossible for any man to follow the chairman through the mass of figuees he had quoted. It appeared, however, that their enntal account was to be ope Led, and 100,0001. added to it by the present scheme. As far as the Crystal Palace was concerned he had no objection to the traffic arrange mAlts, but as to reopening the capital account of the Brighton Company he felt that it was his duty to oppose it by every means in his power.—(Great applause.) He agreed with Mr. Levy in understanding that the chair , man was to hafe devoted the whole of his time to the Brighton Company in consideration of the 1,500 a year which he received, and he (Mr. Herapath) would rather give him (the chairman) an addition to that sum than that he should give his time to other companies, which might act vrejudicially to the interests of the Brighton Company. He begged to ask Mr. Schuster two ques tions,--first, respecting what he (Mr. Herapath) had t heard from a respectable quarter that Mr. Schuster was the real purchaser of the Crystal Palace, Mr. Fuller being the nominal one. lie (Mr. Herepath) wished to know whether that was to or not ? Secondly, from two different persons, unknown to each other, be (Mr. Herapath) had heard that he (Mr. Schuster) had solo, or agreed to sell, property to the Crystal Palace Commy for 120,0001. which cost him (Ur. Schuster) only about 30,0001. ; he wished to know whether that was so or not? Mr. Scaus-enn emphatically denied that there was one word of truth in any part of the statement, and said there was not A,"210t a word o f truth i n i t from b eg i nn i ng t o e nd. Mr. . BERAP for the the mich purposet of same of te lluproar,telling said m r that he merely rose. Schuster th a t as he had emphatically denied the truth of the effect the statement, he (Mr. Her shareholders man ho was bound to believe him. Herapath) thought as a gentle- Mr. C. BELL quite agreed that it would be adjourned for three Rbekt;; to follow the Chairman th a He proposed an toamendmenttoug- a long detail of figure& theeaQehd in the meantime the of the subject they propose to submtt Mr. MAWDSLEY had been inducedthat the meeting . to dbeer become beimpossible estatementa sh ar e directors to send round to in accountthe b Brightoneing closed. Re e share in a hc! railway i d iwt e aa r ly ld la h st ar C e hr a i n s y tm th a i s 4g speculation, and had never held to do cwithh deeply. ther. - a tou - sly avoided a th n e y y u s n h t o i u l re gretted e th om at p Crystal Palace scheme, and hoped that the would not continue to be chairman of both companies. He (Mr. Mawdsloy) would rather increase his salary, -alle ii that would induce him to devote his services i exc ustvely to the Brighton Company. A long discussion ensued on the propriety of opening the capital account, as the effect would be to reduce the value of their shares. The CHAIRMAN said, when he joined the Brighton Company the stock was at about 55, but it was now nearly doable that amount. The traffic was 450,0001. per annum, but was now eOO,OOO/. per annum. lie had brought the working of the lice, with the aid of the officers of the company, into a system which enabled him to devote some time to the Crystal Palace Company, and ether matters connected with the interests of the com pany. He would not remain at the board unless he was supported in his management by the majority of the shareholders.—(Hear.) After some discussion as to whether the meeting should be adjourned, or a new meeting called, The amendment, proposed by Mr. BELL, adjourning the meeting for three weeks, and specifying that a state ment of the scheme should be circulated among the pro prietors in the meantime, was carried by a majority of 14 to 10. Mr. SLIGHT, sen., demanded a poll, which it was an nounced would close on Monday, and the meeting sepa rated. CORNWALL. The directors of this railway appear to be in earnest, and to bo determined to make up in energy for the fu ture what there may have been wanting in the past. The West Cotnwell Railway will be completed in August next to Truro, and the directors of the Cornwall lino have instructed Mr. Brunel to obtain tenders from con tractors for executing the line from the junction of the West Cornwall at Truro to St. Austell. By this means the whole of the mining districts west of St. Austell and St. Blozey will be brought into immediate connexion. The revised survey of this portion of the line has long ago been completed, and parts of the work were then commenced—reasons whHa have probably influenced the directors to proceed with that portion of the line. Glennie, of Plymouth, also immediately go carefully over the ground ;rum Truro to Falmouth, where the chief engineering difficulties exist, so as to determine en the best way of going through that part of We country. With the Cornwall Railway proceeding, and the West Cornwall nearly completed, and with a line in embryo from Plymouth to Tavistock, there is at last good reason to hope that the west of England will, ere long, esijoy some of those great advantages which hare been expo rieaced in the north from the development of railway commualcation.—Eyniouth Journal. _ RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS: BRISTOL, Jurrr . 4.. _ STOCK EXCHANGE. —The share market presented an im proved appearance to-day, and prices generally had a ten dency upwards. The transactions were as follow.—Bristol and Exeter, 90A—Great Western, 91 ;zg —Taff Vale, 1 58 1 /• LIVERPOOL, JUNE 4 Stter EXCIWIGE.—We have no improvement to notice to-day. The transactions have been very limited, and prices varied little from those which have been quoted for the last few days. The sales reported,were—Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire (late Chester and Birkenhead ),18—Birmingham and Dudley, 30,4—Caledonian, 18,i—East Lancashire 17 i ii Lancashire and Yorkshire, 71,'y—Ditto, Fifths (West Riding Union), 4 1-16 dis.—London and North-Western, 122 Midland, 6714 —Shrewsbury and Birmingham (B), W e — Oswestry and Chester, 13 —South-Ea. - itern and Dover, 2054 3 — York, Newcastle, and Berwick, unpaid-up, 2 15-16 dis. BIRMINGHAM, JUNE 4. STOCK EXMIANG.—The business to-day was very limited. The only transactions reported were—London and North 'Western, 122—Shrewsbury and Birmingham ( A), 7%. THE ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH CO2 - PANIES. , Mr. Baldock, Yesterday. on the re-aesem - Wing of the Committee— , Earl, and Miller were examined on points of scientific technicality, R M il . h S t t il an o l ll ey . , L a o n r d d m llo r. th w am cs , t_ E m arl es J sr e s r . m G y i n ipin in ono of Lis usual sole I°f after which Mr. Hope, Q.C., on behalf of the Electric Tcle,raph C om p a ny, summed up the evidence against the B 11 - o C v7r. pa t n w y o hours and a half, she .addresses, meant of space, may be to what ho termed the unprecedented and we t the cenli d, British inf o gr as directed ter of the powers proposed. to be conferred penal charac before the Committee —unprecedented graded the compulsory powers to ' and P enal as re 'railways, as well as in the item of interfere with the Hay, which, if conferred en 0 proposed indica'ted e be . ads o f limited lia should be extendedisimultaneously telegraph company. Counsel drew the attention to all. The Learned tho want of a subscription contract, o- C ommittee to the of things disclosed in tho evidence and satirised the state been no telegraph laid down since 1850, asserting that Competition in matter a solution to the enigma. the present case w ,Juld 3 generally was a delusion, bat in between th© parties be creative of continual squalls the and if competition in any shapeand railway companies, of telegraphs it would were carried out ia the matter been suggested, of be the alternative one that has a route by the old coach road. Mr. Sergeant w The Committee ___ then a dj ourne d unt il Monday, when.. rangban2, Q.C„ will reply for the Britis h Company. 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' THE NATIONAL GALLBRY.—T Two valuable pictures. purchased at the sale of the l and at another sale in p ate Marshal Soult's collection, ) the National Gallery , aril', on account of the trustees of have arrived and been safely deposited I in that establishment , Palms Vecchi9. Ohe'lelwl'itian, and the other : 1)A • LONDON,- EVENING, JUNE