The Sun. — London, England, 1805-04-26 00:00:00

feared to hi en to be the best mode of proceedinß; lint he was ignorant of law, 311(1 he regretted that rbe House had not enjoyed the advantage of hearing the Law .Oftleers on this subjel, whose opinion very deSir&>uq (0 Obtain. HZ could not See why a CoinMittet ruight not first be appointed, and she AviemeifV GL err %AL after ,vards employed, first to discover if anV interest had been derived, and then - to encertain the quantum. There was one principat point which the Law Officers could not determine, and that was, whether or not Lord Mel. vibe had participated in the fraudulent gains of Mr. Trotter. He was convinced, that the Public would Willi touch more satislatlion see the HoUse of Coin -motes retain the whole power of Intrity and Punish menu in their own possession, than filet them trust ing it to others. Tlitir woceedings wauld be at. trended with much More solemnity and effeCt. The ATM 1V EY .G JVERAL would not enter into a comparison of the greater or, less power which might 'be exerted by a Committee of the House or a Coott of Law. That of the Committee 'night no doubt be the greater. But should it be the opinion of thu House, that he, in his capacity of - His Majesty's Attorney.-General, should proceed -against Lord IVlelviiist and Mr. Trotter for the recovery of the pl.( fits ,they may have derived from the use of the public money, he .was ready to confess, that however= he might proceed, they would still have the power to demur. So far, then, as an ample source of information might be expeeted tee be derived from such a prosecution, that expe&v. tion might he frustrated. As to his own particular opinion, he was ready to say, that the Law Ofli. cers of the Crown could undertake for nothing lespeeting the result, whether a civil or a criminal proceeding was to be instituted. He at least should Mcsnly say, 'that whatever he undertook, he should endeavour fairly and faithfully to discharge as his duty direeled. Sheu!d the matter be brought be fore a Comnnaittee, they might not hesitate . to infer -the guilt of the accused, shotild they take refuge . under the-proteCtion of the law. In so doing the Committee would, no doubt, go farther than a legal -proceeding could attempt to go ; yet as fat' as evi , rilenee would justify him, he should equally proceed so discover to what extent LORI Melville might have participated in the profits of Mr. Trotter, and how far, consequently, Lord ',Melville stood reSpon sible*to refund to-the Public. It Was the inclina -lion Of his opinion, that if profits appeared to have been spade by Mr. Trotter, which could not be traced to .Lord. !ben he could not pro. ,teed on the principle to recover equally from lord Melville- It would therefore lie incumbent on him to examine to what' degree Lerd Melville might he responsible, and that extent must be measured by the nature of the evidence. The only and great difficulty was to ascertain that point before there _was any regulation to ascertain it. But these pro_ fits had since been regulated, and if they could ' raw be traceable, .Lord Melville, they would, rln doubt, be- recoverable. The questi:m would atilt remain, whether the . profits were made . by ,the Public Money, or by sums drawn in favour U. individuals. This could as easily be ,ascertain. .ed in a Court of Law as by -a Committee, nay, better. The Committee vaigitt be excluded from most Of lime intelligence •whieli might be procured by a legal 'proceeding. Even were time Comtbittee agreed to, Lord Melville and Mr. Trotter might atilt reneiin with. mouths closed, and neither be convicted by theuitelves or any other means the Committee could resort to. Ile should therefore vote. against the Committee, unless it were intended to follow up the .Report by some cri:ninal' proceeding. Mr. TIE 11.1Wie and the ATTonNEY.GENERAL severally explained .respeeting the extent of the Towers of the Committee. Mr. J. Li•XANDAR explained the nature'nf the manner in which the public .secouots were kept ; and contender% that the House could not grant the powers required, as they tv:.uld then delegate a power to the,Committee which the floute itself did Tint Mr. SAYRID :4 N wished to-make an observa. tion'or two , upon what had fallen from the. Right• lion. Mover ul the AMendment. The Amendment of tiv Right Hon. Gentl‘man seemed twassume that i,the House'hati already determined the Matter should he strut before a Curt of Equity. A Motion to that ;Get might have been intended ; but reasonsliad been ad k !uced to caution the' Huuse to pause 'before i t was adopted: Perhaps 'Ole Right Hon. Gentle. man himself might make that mitt" but he should not. assume it to he alrcaoy made and decided. He could not but commend the delicacy of the Learned Gentleman (this' ATToRNEy GENERAL). Thar Learned Gentleman cautiously abstained from de. whether a legal proceeding should be load. toted or not. At least, he has given no reason toot ped that any good could be expetted to result from ; and all the other great Law Officers were equally silent upon that point. But what says the Learned Gentleman, 4 whatever may be the mode of proceed lagmay , they nest demur, and 'refuse to answer ? and they &mut . , where Is the emnpulsion.' Before a .11:Itnuctittee..they could• demur only under the pro. lettion of the ith clause of the Mt. Still he would have Lord Meiville and Mr. Trotter brought be fore the Committee. Who could pronounce what nail ht be,in the contemplation of the Committee to adept ; and if no suggestion had been thrown out of a pfosectition by the ATTORNEY GENRRAL, it' he supposed that the Committee s.vouhl be , found` to instxtute,ont ? The Learned Gentleman gives the preference to 'a Court of jut: t ie s .-.and for wharreaaott No doubt, only beb cause it is proposed to limit and cripple the powtis of the .Corronittec. There you might examine the ty.oks, the Clerks of iVieasrs. Druannond,.or There you mi l ot take 'viva iveee evidence. Wha t w as the language held• upon a forMernight P Was not the House ,told---Do not be rash—do not come to a vote before a Selett Committee furnish you with e v idence Those, therefore, who then accused you of rashnesl, arc now themselves ready to vote for a roseeution in a Court of Equity, though' u evt. &nee is produced by the Committee. In whatever light It was viewed, there was every reason to lament the proposed Amendment of the Right Hon. Gentle man. It would have, the worst possible efFed out 91 The House, Let it not be said, that House was already tired of the first appearance of the good that iatd bttp d o e. lie w. l s not one of thute who ex. OA i. t ilehttakeil nnaln thr; 14nitia, far its first decision. That alp!! irate savoured some, what of inhale at seeing the House do its duty ; it had done no mare---was there rootn for sta.. prise that welt a Itesoluti:o), - after such evidence, should have been -carried by a intj• - ;rity of oite i ) 7 7- Fo_r his parr lie hoped the public eye would remain stratly upon the busint:ss, and attend to see how it would be followed up; as anxiou , ly did he hope that the night tip. Gentleman would not shackle the Inquiry by any -unnecessary re3triaions. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that it could be • his intention to cramp the Inquiry, as it-was his wi,sh that they should have the power to examine. into every thing except what was referred to the Law Officers. Mr. FULLER was strongly in favour of an en. largetl Inquiry, or rather that the matter should he again reterred to the Commissioners already em ployed in the examination of our Naval Affairs. Mr. FOX said, that he never had more reason to rejoice at any thing than at the order with which his lion. Vriend (Mr. Wt.itbread) had brought 'forward his Motion. Indeed he had ample con. vietion from every side of the House of the appre. henions entertained by the Friends of Lotd vine. He was particularly' satisfied with what fell from the Attorner.General. The Learned .Gentleman fairly explaioed how he . would proceed, and what were likely to be the conseqnences of such a proceeding.. He did not hesitate to acknowledge the difilcutties that might arise, when it. came to he examined to whom the money which it was attempted to recover properly belonged ; whether it was the Money of the Public or of Individuals. Should it turn out to belong to individuals, then the whole proceeding must fail. if the idea thrown out by the Learned Gentleman respe6ting what might be the result of the Prosecution was corral, nothing could be expected from such a proceeding. The House then must be sensible that they would be guilty of a dereliCtion of their duty it they sur. rendered the power of inquiring themselves ioto the whole business. Indeed the recovery of the money ap. geared to him not to be the essential part of the case. It was the character of the House that was at stake, and that ought to be anxiously at tended to. They should be aware not to forego fundions which were fundamental to the constitution, and which they should exercise immediately and without any delega. tiorr to .any other description of persons. The old proverb'edinonishes, do not do by another what, you can do by. yourselves ; if that maxim be true re. speding , individual conduel, how Much more so Must it be with regard to the conduct of the Houie of Commons. Let it nut be said, that if the ac cused are again examined they may demur, they may refuse to answer. He was not for again examining Lord Melville or Mr. Trotter. There were other means of coming at the fads. Other peisons and all the different accounts should be examined ; but the whole of these matters .should be left to the discre. tion of . the Committee. In the further inquiry into abuses, many things might occur that would en lighten and direct the researches of the House. He must again advise them net to let the powers of such inquiry go out of their own hands. Mr. CANNING was surprised how any man could accuse his Right Hon. Friend of any intention to cripple the Inquiry ; it: was only litnited to the essential points it should have in view. • Besides, Isis Right Hon. Friend left Gentlemen on the other side the option of which mode they should pursue. He could not but advert to the topic concerning which so much clamour had been raised out of doors. Nothing was so much insisted on as the loss which the Public had sustained lay these transeetions. If there was a loss let it be ascertained, if not, let the mistake be correded ; and how could that he better done than by the mode recommended ? How could the Money be better seemed than by a legal pro. ceediog ? It was rather wonderful that Gentlemen, .who in every other resped were so anxious to abide by.what was preacrihed• by the Commissioners, s h ou ld i n t hi s iristatice rtfilSe to adopt that audio. rity. The Conimissioners. pointed out the proceed. ins of a Court of Law, yet Gentlemen now wished to shrink . from shat • mode of proceeding. Indeed they seemed solicitous only to follow what made an impression out of doors, and to change their ground, and shape their conduit in the manner the most likely to catch a few stray votes. The SOLTCITOR. GENE'S. AL spoke in foour of the Amend tnent, and insisted on the arguments urged by the AT TOIL« NiLY cEliiltAL. Mr. FONIIILA;JQUIL disagreed from both, and contended for the eniaroAl powers of the Committee. Mr. 11 1 111TBAEN) in reply said; 'that he should be al ways happy so to. shape his condo& as to merit the more go. neral approhation of the house. He was ready to waive his Motion for the prosecution by the ATTORNAY GENLRAI. so that a Committee might bu appointed with the fullest powers to inquire into every abuse. He did not look upon the recovery of the money of so" much importance as the et. ample to be made by the punishment of delinquents, As to the Comniissioners, they did not point out the mode of pre• ceeding as stated by the Right.lion. Gentleitian ; they only shoved that the delinquents .were debtor to the Public, and ailed it was for the House to make themruedfillyudc for, .slid the . The Question was now very lo Houie divided. Vor Mr. P T'S A mendinent Against it t 22, - IS I, Majority 7 3 ' Strangers were not re•admittaci after the Division, but we understand that a Debate took place upon the mode of chess ing the Committee; Mr. 1' r proposed that the Members shottici , be chosen by ballot. Mr. WiItTBILEAD and -Mr. Fox co►ttended this the Comtnittee should be then appoint ed by the, Hous`e, and proceeded to Move the list of ►Members whom they wished to constitute the Committee. Tht . tirst Member I►rol►oscd WA$ Mr. BAKE a, of Hertford—upon this Motion an Amendment was moved, the clfe,cl of which was, that the Committee should be appointed by ballot ; which was carried by 25 t to Ml. Majonty for Mr. I" vr's Amend ment 13 1.--Adiourned at Half- past One, THE SUN. .10LEP4 QUI/ DICkAII ALSLIM AUDRAT L NO. N,, FRIDAY, AP R IL. 26, 1805• We are now enabled to state; upon full Authotity, that the Toulon Fleet Ills sdually wade its escape. It is supposed that its destination is fur the West Indies, We have every reason to believe that the gallant NatA , QX is at their heels, and will he able to (Ayr a wind act - munt of them. They pA;sed t(ic Straits on the evening of the 9th, sad were seen irons CdNralrar, They were in sight of the Renown and Kip ed on this side of the Gut. If their des tindtion should atquilly la)e to the West Indies, they ore likely to find a much warmer reception than they expea in that quarter.. BY our accounts from Deal this morning, we have some further particulars of the capture of the Enemy's Gun.boats. It appears that nine of them were taken, seven of which are armed with a 36- pounder aft, and one 13-pounder forward ; one of them is timber-loaded, and one full of Troops.— They were al l sent into Ramsgate Harbour. Not a man was hilted or wounded on board our VesselP. They were stealing round Cape Grisnez for Bsru. logne; they had on board about 150 Troops. Tr; 13 House of Commons met yesterday, fur the Ann time after the Recess, and the subjetts of dis cussion were interesting and important. The CHAN CELLOR of the ExCPIEQUER gave notice that he' should on Monday next move fur a continuance of the Powers vested by parliament in the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry, He also gave notice of his inten, tion to move fir a similar Commission to inquire in. to the Military Expenditure of the Country, to re port the abuses, it any should be found in that De. partment, in order that the wisdom of Parliament might suggest all expedient and praffleable remedies and improvements. This comprehensive spirit of investigation is charaCteristie of his enlarged mind and elevated views.' Mr. Gar If then moved, thitt the Printer, and Publisher of Tke Oracle do attend the House this day, to answer for an article insert ! ed in that Paper yesterday, and which the Hon. Member considered as a Libel upon the House. It is somewhat extraordinary t h at though the Opposi tion hold themselves forth as peculiar Friends to the Liberty of the Press, Motions of such a kind as the present are chiefly found to originate with them. If Ministers were to imitate their cAultr6t respecting what ale deemed Opposition Papers, the spirit of Discussion out of doors would no longer - give Eng lishmen a proud superiority over every other People on earth. Mr. WHITBREAD afterwards, in pursuance of his. Notice given before the Holidays, moved for a Seled Committee to inquire further into the mat. ters contained in the Report of the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry. The CHANCELLOR of the Ex. CHEQUER, deeming such a Motion too loose and indefinite, moved an Amendment, importing that a Selett Committee should be appointed, limiting the Inquiry to the application of Money gianted for Naval Services to other branches of Public Service ; and also to any irregularities which may have taken place in the mode of drawing that Money from the Bank, and the recovery of arrears, &c. After a long and desultory Debate, the Question was put, and the House divided : FOC M. PITT'S Amendment - 22.9 Agaimit it - - . . 1s x Majority . - - Last night we received Paris Paper: to the 21st, and Dutch journals to the 2q.rl►. The following are ►he most important Articles of Intelligence whicl► they contain : A Letter from the Hague, of the 221 i inst: says, " The Army destined for the Invasion of England is to go into Camp at Zeyst on the loth May next, The Troops not destined for the :Expedition are to be commanded by 'General Mlows, who is e. paled frOm Paris.' 41 Mons. AUBFRNON, Chief Commissary, is al. ready arrived at Utrecht. "It is here confidently reported that the Brest Fleet, having on board all the Troops destined for the Expedition from that Port, has put to. sea. It is added, that the Toulon Fleet did put to' sea on the 3oth March, since which nothing has been heard from them, They are suppos e d to , be destined for the Ea st Indies, ,where some important blow is expeded to be struck. " The information of Admiral GR AVINA having put to aca 'from Cadiz, with twelve Sail of di» Line, is stated to be cfilcially confirmed ; his ohjen is to form a junOion with the Brest Fleet." In the Vienna Gazette it. is mentioned, that the EMPIROIL of GERMANY, instead of going to Italy, intends to go to and to have a per. 'Kla' interview with the EMPEROR ofßtlsisA. An Article from Genoa, slated the 6th inst. (in the Moniteur of the ioth,) mentions a report of Lord NaLson's squadron having put into Malta, for the purpose of re.vidualling, and landing the sick. But ti letter from Cadiz of the 29th ult. inserted in the' journal des Debts, states, an the contrary, that his Lordship was then before Barce lona. lithe gallant Admiral were adually in that diredion at the time here. mentioned, there can be little doubt of his having received tim e ly i nt i tna . lion of the progress of the Toulon Fleet, whiclt sailed the beginning of the present month. At the above date there were before Cadiz five English Ships of the Line, a Frigate, and a Brig ; and an English. Ship of go guns bad arrived at. Gibraltar from the Eastward. There is no mention made of the. Spanish Squadron having sailed from Cadiz. Couriers arc continually passing and reprising he. rween Vienna 'and St. Pererrburgh. The ,Russian General nit LA.SCY I is now on his way from the latter to the former City and it is asserted, that the Emperor of AUSTRIA means shortly to set out for Hungary and Gallicia; in the latter of which in . () v an interview is to take place between him and the Emperor of RtISStA. A Lettcr . frotn,f;:rankfort, of the loth of April, states, that in the retershurgh Court Gazelle rgth, is published the Reply of the Erig v e rnment to the Letter of the Fr ench Einperehooe. raining the Overtures of Peace , unaccomp i nied 111' the Letter itself. A Camp of 20,000 Bavarian Troops is toitebroll ed in the neighbourhood of Munich early in the CP suing summer. A Projed has been presented to the Diet pt Ito tiibon,.by which there will be for the future, inths College of the Princes, 7 8 Catholic votes, nth" same number of Protestant rotes.pn Two Englishmen were arrested at Fheilush m ing the 9:11 inst. suspeCted of being spies. Tr W are riot mentioned. They were found concealed la a garden. The son of Lard ELGIN died on the is tkinstall Paris.-- 1 oarrlid des Debats. Prince Jose rit opened t he Eleetoral Culler Brussels on the 16th in grea t form, andlogilt utmost solemnity. BO N APARTE was procl lireti King 0 1 1141 I; Milan, on the trt /1/41, with gre at and 00 pomp. A variety of grand iCtes, balls Ba. hare btu' given at Lyons, in compliment to 'Boilitrtrt._s his Wife. High 11/lass was celebrated befortll°' On Easter Sunday, by the Cardinal ifsaa. notc h A proposition has been submitted to the i t i os Legislature for imposing upo n the in4abitiffill. that Countries ceded by the French Q.)veromeilileal Republic, as an extraordin ar y War Tax, a ,al4 l to one.ltalf of their ordinary contributiailf.latii The French Funds bare fallen. OP 111 -! 1 • they were 564, ize off Celiio' .00 --- , oil leer, Biter, P Y lt il l et i :/te 2 e 5 ;, — .4 f o l cu i sa,lVlMljse:ityY ' I , 5 a 1 :: ?'9414 Gun.brigs, cam , : in from a Cru Yesterday mining the Gallata and fr 4, Gun-brigt, crui s ing between Calais and Holes fell_ . in with between 40 and so of til, e , i ine kolt, Flotilla, running down along shore from . 141:itc, and after an Action of one hear end a hit ' iff s ' Gallant received four shot between Wind tintiOino and was obliged to haul of; the 0/01‘4,0 4°Ig at Calais the Aetion. The British Squadron itatiliod , on hearing the guns, ran iing o e, )° ,!,41 . shores and succeeded in cutting nine oi 1 "'Os which they captured and sent into the Diwn s ' '4OO of them are armed with one 36 pounder gift I d on e A I a ac .p iau o inn o forward e n h d da e do r wnot full of Troops. They are all sent inu', l ",nitil ► Harbours this tide. The Ships and OW diaman, attahldenslta,noirektritil,floecrd3o4rrAviirno.uoryntildplatio:rlio:i..o tra In " ........... Adi 10, 11 ,. ALMOUTH, APRIL 23.--Arrivr- - d e aggii r- F and Dextrous Gun-brigs to gliere itotr",,,, h ispari Ve,sels here bound to the Metliterranesnt,n;: OW or Oporto. • r;,;. morning arrived !he 4 3 ", i - g v eil -lijas tram Lima, with 280,000 tiAl° lll : an ioi * i valualale cargo of 3undries, captured in o - . va ett 211 f: 6. by the il/aior and anivri% °JP, of ‘3l,serncc), an d lt Verpool. :terse) Letter of ittriActoirp, His Majesty's Ships gllttN, Or 90 Pl' ell KNIGHT, Captitio PINDER, Prire t s 171 :11 1 0 44 CaPt•GRIFFITH, and a Shrll) 0 1 W4f t Sti tlig 0' of Tran,ports, etc. passed this Port W -I ward, , th MO Sailed the Leicester Packer, BF 6 LI WI , / polte) for the Windward Islands; anti ilotii" SCituYLIR, %ith Mails for Lisbon,. NAVAL NEWS. lit S HEER .. Poo . month's aß f A o s r This rnmth a bee s wdija t ndi , :iyEtiv : 3l:s l ast : hnLoh' e wicewilA w eit L;I: i P1 11:aarldtcilhdille13 theAllW2aißln3l;:l::Gviraiarictr:4:::::::c4itseli I'l ercv r e3'l e . devi:11(1:);I:vi illeitec::r;e118):"R'4:4;:;14:11:1° Dropped .2 • .11:13iel t3l:ll,to:lasTitxlsixiernoliuvanTritibitsoiuorATtru:ftliyd:Syl2ll:it),%ti:il: v bc P I 0 ... - - - Inai ; ,1-1,„,, Pt , Fleet h ) Ave al th e l pIIVICti filfUtigli the INIC:4" ":10'14( Jant Dmirbes f G ,fi ,r ich still teal the Matherbank: • " ° II' v 4 t.lsgtira)uastAnttnestilt.swnhaßcdernao,e.i.bmek..Tarp laden x with it i 2irfu. 17, Ai rr or ina etii i , b 0 oi ; v{llll:frj 1-.' P L Yolliwn:,sfr'paolsuvsmitlifortiiihrnistoiliviutbertynt:gciloahieivernyiivi. btii k i : a icr.", :r v ' n i : v ei l e;: is , o: : ;: a . f. i : l tir : is f ,,, r io : l : : l , c ...... 0 r: r yl), wit), 1 . C the 1411111 Fredri kparque Laratitia, laden with linie!air,e,„ sel Fe; stadt for this Port a, put to ) J The ship ......... a ~.10 s Privateer, 'Wag not the Privverr '°l t " / jitt er 0' marna_ commanded _...by Captain G00nAt.t.,,1)04,0 Attm. which ; called Elie O t t stisera4 ..L.' ern.:.P1,0,1 O P, Icn "led from Livetpool gill Yl of l v A a elFrioenn:h }lgo' Prect.' fll/1) taken the 20th by was mortally diate wountleil ; on itn,tl;ilicl'hictil'ieClZeinialeP y struck the Colours. , , c i l e Mrs-, M nI,WI , 0 4$ t o u talk. I N has s son, fourtec--:'.1,0 ne eirlepreecti,e)d e : ) . , ar (nine y e ll hi: t nig h j r: !fi t :f i t ly: l : wno was so 1 -ve momen co ex ,irt. An 4 x '''' re made fur her, and Of .4st ', .1 sk it' represcote,• •n Return. the Lir:cad of the new .14.0ce aide e a id At ExCh, ae vie itla 10.414 I.;:ri' cX' Plies of W I , ln- 'of FOO,P ' fiCi t co, a nd malty c ogoes o p , sremeiT dull • , Rivas; loYi was about sale, iron) ,11 OW .-, , cc fvfli. 1, ma. per 12Wirter Cheaper 0" 'a3 101) )i and e,letl'd at st ill lot ;..13arler i'l f1:y.5,0, aenf_i. is I°wer ;.--isilalt likewiie ;---114'ile ,n il i 4 0 Sr ' I : , acll sort are at about Jost currency i--;"6001e:: Fine de m and for `public service ; they all, r ; , W1'1;1 FLOW* it not very v le fit dui, and r. c I. ! i Of t other sorts at 1 •d 1 ' article 1 C 53, aill t 113 lower. 1 , KILL S'l'L)t.'s .$ 101 s7i i ,t Oninitial,.; ~,,,, it, I ni• PAY •rT o , rots "":„;;;,,,,,,,„.....4 --......;-•.,-----',..,.:--.. ~....,,,,_,r,,:,..,7!:';-:,-----' ~,coo, Lo N DO --'-'''' . 14,010. ~,t l' Bow.streeNt : Printed by R. liAltAtt I,ottirr, t.)t moution.sl);:cUiTti i)tiblistled by %V, i. 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