The Sun. — London, England, 1837-12-15 00:00:00

Member. His object in rising was not to indulge in an y thin g of a personal nature towards the Honourable Member, but as as - I , e „,"nn could to guard against prurient legislation , and p re- T. the Statute-book from being loaded with unnecessary laws. Noble JOHN RUSSELL sa id that he understood from his 1 1e Friend th a t th e Commissioners of Woods and Forests had :°_o 3. bjectien to the introduction of the Bill, but he entertain ed l e !rae doubt as to its progress. The consent of the C rown Ras necessary before the Bill could be intro d u ced, and he would have no objection to the 13r11 being introduced Low, tiththe understanding that the consent of the Crown shou ld mgfiren at a future stage. 11 0 SPEAKER was of opinion, that the Bill might be ltreduced without the consent of the Crown ; but that it was a measure which ought to originate with the Government. After a few words from Mr, MAHON Y, who stated that bA had taken charge of the Bill, at the suggestion of the Noble Lord, The Bill was, by leave, withdrawn. RUSSIA. Mr. ATT WOOD rose for the purpose of calling the atten tion of the House to the recent aggressions of Russia, add to Russ some questions to her Majesty's Ministers reepectinie the and Circassia—the affair of the Vixen and the Treaty of ITn kiar Skelessi. He must say many things had surprised him, al though they were told that a man of experience should not be surprised at anything in human affairs. He was not so far ad- Itanced in years yet as to be incapable o f feelin g surprise °n ,`zany occasions, and he felt much surprise on the occasion When f l ..r Majesty's Ministers met Parliament. In neither the speech from the Throne, nor in any they had since beard, had one single word proceeded from their mouths, or the royal mouth, respecting the distress existing amo n g the industrious classes. He Was s till more surprised at the position which Russia was assuming in the affairs of Europe, and he was astonished that her Majesty's Ministers should sit there day after day, and week after week, troubling themselves with matters unworthy the consideration of that House--fit only -for discussion in a village pot-house ; and while th e y were discussing these little nasty matters, Russi r was preparing a terrible war up °u England at her own mos t convenient time.—( Hear, heap. ) ~„. be Bon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Duncombe) who he be lieved to he a very good man, seemed to think be ( Mr. Att- Wool) wa s rather sanguiee in his views of the power of Russia ; but he held in his bend a pamphlet written by Com mander Crawford, from which ;:e would read a few exc-acts, who described the state of ilia Russian fleet at crenstadt. He ( Mr. Attwood) was sorry that a trades roan lik e him should find it his duty to bring f o rward this great and sesous matter, while the officers of the army and navy who sat there for the vindication of the honour of their country—if they sat there for a nything—a the nd if they did not sit th ere for that purpose, sooner they qu itted it the better — (L au g hter) —did not think proper to bring this question forward. It did not be come him to criticize their motives, but he might possibly suspect that one set of men were alarmed lest they should incur the displeasure of the Min i s te r s ; and ano ther s e t, lest they should incur the displeasure of the Petto Ministers—the would-be :Ministers—(laughter);-- buthe trusted the honour of England would not be compro nlised in consequence of their silence. Captain Crawford, in his pamphlet, stated it was a strange feeling that ,came over him as an Englis hman on finding himself in the Baltic, with twenty-six line of Russian battle ships, With 30,000 men, better soldiers than sailors, and four months of provision on board, knowing that to protect our Chan nels a n d our ports we had only seven line of battle ships in state of preparation, and those not fully manned. Captain Crawford stated that he absolutely trembled for the preservation of our ancient sovereignty of the seas. The Hon. Member proceeded to read several long extracts from the same pamphlet as to the state of discipline in which the Russian Navy now was, through the exertions of officers ago had received their nautical education in the English Navy ; and concluded by stating that Britain no longer enjoyed that superiority upon the ocean which she had long boasted. Re did not care whether Russia was our friend or no—the moment a country depended upon the friendship of a tyrant, that moment the people became slaves. Yet, while all this Was going on, the Government were quietly sitting at — home asleep upon the benches of the House.—( Laughter.) He had told them three or four years ago how things were going en._( A laugh.) What did they laugh at ? Ills Hon. Friend laughed, but would he laugh if the Russians appeared lii twenty-six line of battle ships on the coast of Norfolk ? (Laughter.) They might laugh. but he spoke upon the au. thority of an officer in the British navy, and England had no power to prevent them appearing off that coast. Upon the authority of the American captain of the Inde. Pendent, he last year met a fleet of eighty vessels of war be longing to Russia, yet England had no power to prevent them appearing off this coast. What force had England to prevent them entering the river Thames, and burning Sheerness? Ile was told that they had six ships at Lisbon —they were ostensibly kept there for the purpose of protecting the life of the Queen of Portugal—they were no such thing ; they did not case a rush for the life of the Queen ; they were Wanted for the purpose of crushing liberty in that Country ; they were wanted for the purpose of allowing the Queen of Portugal to break her oath, and crushing the rising liberties of that country. Bring away those ships, and then Yeti would have thirteen at the mouth of the Thames, but the Russians would come with twenty-six, and then where would be the power of boasted England ?---( Hear.) They ought to be prepared to meet a war with Russia. They Ought to be prepared to met France and Holland and America combined with Russia. All the little jealousies which had so long ;listed in other countries would be aroused,and they should there- Ohe p repared to crush Russia at once. Our Saxon ancestors '`` lost the dominion of the seas—they had a national debt or a private debt, or sonic infernal bedevilment of that sortes(Lsughter)—which prevented their meeting the on Danes their faces and sung psalms, instead of preparing for the fight. While he was stating these facts one Hon, Gentleman laughed—( Renewed laughter) —another Hon. Gentleman cried, and a third Hon. Gentleman went to sleep ; and that was the way England in these latter days listened to the degradation of her ancestors.—( Hear, and a laugh,) He would be glad to hear what answer her Majesty's Government intended to make to the questions he was about to ask, and:what remonstrances they had addressed to the Russian Goverument for its aggressions. He believed he had said enough upon that point, --(Cries of " Go on.") Why, he could perhaps speak for two hours more upon the subject—(Much laughter)—but he would be glad to know why the Noble Lord had not destroyed the 15 line-of-battle ships which the Russiansnow had in the Black Sea, and which he could have effected on several occasions. If the fleet which Sir E. Codringten commanded in the Downs in 1831 had been sent (as was expected that it would have been) into the Baltic, Poland would at this moment have been independent. Lord Grey disgraced his coun try and his principles by allowing Poland to fall. But the Duke of Wellington commenced English degradation by the Treaty of Adrianople, and b y suffering te Rus pass the Pruth in 1828. The Russians deceived both Mr. Can ning and the Duke of Wellington, and began a separate war on Turkey,'contrary to her declaration that she would not carry hostiities beyond the Black Lea ; she carried them into the Mediterranean- The Duke of Wellington being stran gled by sinister influences at home, allowed the Russians to blockade the Dardanelles ; and was bambooz!ed by Count Ncsselrode into the belief that in so doing - British interests were advanced.—( Hear.) A system of our national degradation commenced by the Duke of Welling ton, and carried on by Lord Grey, was to be finished by Lord 'Melbourne. The lion. Member remarked upon the war which Russia was now engaged in with Circasssia. If Russia ob tained a footing in Circassia, our Indian possessions might be endangered. He was nut, however, much afraid of In lie being threatened, for he was one of those who considered that British India, with a population of '27,000 Europeans, and One hundred million natives, was in a better situation to threaten St. Petersburgh than St. Petersburgh was to threaten Calcutta. But Russia could do much with Persia and Turkey added t o her own dominions. With regard to Cireass'a, the question wa s, nut whether Russia had a right or not to that country, but whether it was for our interest one not the that Persia and T ur key should be overrun by Russia. Ag, Cireas sians were devoted to England and hated the Russians, and 3 . et we pretended not to know that our honour and the hide tendence of our country were deeply concerned in the strugs Pie which was being carried on upon their coasts. The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the case of the Vixen, and to the fact that no notice of the blockade of the Dardanelles hae appeared in the Gazette, to which, however, the Foreign Secretary had referred Captain Bell before be sailed, and who was, in consequence of the absence of such necessary notice, taken prisoner, his ship condemned, and himself cast into prison, whence he was only li berated by what was called the condescension of the Ern om - Perot-. What had David Hume—a very different man fr tic Hon. Member for Kilkenny—( A laugh)—said seventy years ago ? He had said that the time would come when the national debt would be the ruin of England, and when fo reign nations would, out of respect for England's former glory, abstain, perhaps, from attacking her in other ways, but use towards her the language and the tone of "measured in. soleace." Here, then, in the case of the Vixen, had 'Hume proved himself a true prophet. Here was the "measured insolence" of Russia.—(Hear, hear.) Lord Durham's embassy to St. Petersburgh was the something less than the ridiculous mouse which the Foreign Secretary bad brought forth in reference to the policy of Russia.—( A laugh.) Tie Noble Lord had been very valiant on a late occasion among the Venezuelans, and had taught us how to come bullies to the weak , and cowards to the strong. Be fore the Emperor Nicholas the Noble Lord was abashed and humble. They were told that the press was the public in structor ; but he considered it nothing less than a public im- Position, no matter by whom conducted. Not one paper in the Zeintry spoke the truth—they were all the toos oeithe - "ries, Whigs, or Radicals—they were anything l but t the ore gans of the people of England—they concealed from the People all those great truths which he felt himself obliged to rise and enforce. He hoped that this country would yet re cover the unbought glories which it acqui red durin g a period of 700 years, and that England, who ha d p lucked the great Napoleon from his throne, would not stand tamely still, to use the language of the writer of the p a mp hlet to which he had referred, to be delivered up to be crushed by the Great Northern Bear. —( Loud laughter.) No w what was the ob tet which Russia had in view when that country offered insult o this i n t h e i ns tance of the Vixen? Why, to prove to th e rest of Europe that England was no longer what she had be ets. This was one consequence of the national debt, and it br ought forcibly to his mind what Mr. Brougham on ce said iluen referring w that debt. The op inion which Mr, roug,liam then expressed was , that this countr y was " bound 1 e l ' a penalty of eight hundred millions not to g o to war," and cio one w h o p a id the least attention to passing even ts could, 4thought, doubt that the fact was so. The trut h was that gland was in the position of a fat fool walking along the Strand with a notice on his back intimating that his pockets were full of money, but, as he never meant to fight or go to law, he might be insulted with impunity.—(Loud laughter.) The fact was, that they should at once relieve themselves from their debt with the same indifference that a lion would shake a dew-drop from his mane.—( Laughter.) With respect to the Radicals, he must say that he believed them to be worse friends of liberty than either the Whigs or the Tories.—( Hear.) Yes, he considered that the most remorseless and bitterest enemies England ever had were the Radical'. Of all the enemies the. industrious classes in this country had, he must express it as his opinion that the Radicals were decidedly the worst, and this he did not hesitate to say, although he was one of them.— ( Hear e hear, and great laughter.) Oh, but there was some little difference between him and them, for he was not quite so had as they were. He was the real friend of liberty, but they were its foes.—( Hear, hear.) The Radicals wished merely to enable the industrious classes to preserve life, but they cared not a jot about the national honour ; while his view of liberty was, that he would pull clown all the institutions the country to maintain its independence and glory among the nations of the world, and place the poorer classes in sech a situation as would enable them to live in comfort by their honest labour. lie now came to the treaty of Unkiar Sky lessi. It might be unjust, perhaps, to sweep away the national debt. Such a measure might cause anarchy, confusion, and destruction ; but, netwithstami.ing all this, he not hesitate to declare that he would run the risk rather than see the honour of England sacrificed. Well, the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi was entered into two years ago, and It had been ob jected to him by the Noble Lord the S, cretary of State for Foreign Affai. s, on a former occasion, that he (eight to have brought it under notice before. Why, he hail called the at tention of that House to it four years ago. He then knew it was coming, and he gave the Noble Lord a caution against adopting the course wnich he had afterwards taken re spect to this treaty. He had told the Noble Lord that Con stantinople would be in the hands of the Russians, an l did not the result prove that he was right ?—( Cries of " No, no.") Well, but the Russians occupied Para, and that was as much part of Constantinople as Southwark was part of London. But what had this country got by the treaty of Unkiar Ske lessi ? The Noble Lord had stated that it was a treaty of re ciprocity ; but if so, the reciprocity, as far as England was concsrncd, was perfectly Irish, for not only was Turkey ex cluded from the Dardanelles, but this country also. Why had not the Noble Lord taken, as he ought to have d ane, possession of the Dardanelles, when he found the Sultan too weak to defend a point of such immense importance, not only to Turkey, but to this country. What had the French done, although they had never occupied the position on the seas that England had always until recently maintained ? Why, they had taken possession of Algiers, on the ground that it was an appanage of Turkey. The French, too, had also taken possession of Ancona, because they knew the Pope was unable to defend it, and deemed the place necessary for their own in terest. Three years ago six line-of-battle ships would have been sufficient to have :aken possession of the Dardanelles. Two years ago twelve line-of-battle ships would have been able to accomplish the same object, aed even now it could be effected by twenty line-of-battle ships. He now came to the point which he considered the most important of all, and that was, the propriety of increasing the British Navy. The Go vernment said they did not like this expense ; but when they must know that Russia, or any other Power, might insult t hi s country on the coast of Norfolk, or of Lincoln, even at the mouth of the Thames, were they not bound to place the Navy in such a condition as would en able them to repulse any sudden attack that might be made against Britain by Russia or any other Power? He thought that twenty more line-of battle ships were required to complete the naval armament of this country. This would require an addition of 20,000 sailors; and if it should be said that so many men could not be obtained, he would tell them the reason why men were unwilling to enter the Navy. The fact was that the sailors of this country were ill-paid and badly treated ; but still , if p ro p er means were adopted, he had no doubt a sufficient number could be easily procured, as he verily believed that nothing would be more popular than a war against Russia.—( Cries of " No, no.") The questions which he had to put to the Noble Lord were— First, a was it the intention of her Majesty's Ministers to adopt any measures for the purpose of preventing the Russian naval armament at Cronstadt ? Secondly, was it their Intention to give assistance to the Circassians in the war between them and Russia, and allow Russia to take possession of the most important country in Asia ? Thirdly, was it their intention to obtain redress for the audacious violation of international law committed in the instance of the Vixen, or to take any steps for rescinding the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi ? And, fourthly, did they intend to make such addition to the Royal Navy as the present eircunistences of Europe seemed to re quire ? In conclusion, the lion. Q.lol.emtin moved two reso lutions', in accordance (as we understood) with his ewe view as to the course which the Government ought to take both with respect to Russia and the increase of the navy. Sir EDWARD CODRINOTOS wended the motion, He thought that a great deal had been said by the Honour able Member for Birmingham which deserved the attention of that !louse ; and he entirely agreed with him that the condi tion of the navy was much too low for the safety of the country The Honourable and Gallant Officer referred to the con duct of Russia prior to the battle of Navarino, arid said that at that period Russia evinced the strongest disposition to sot with honour, and to take no advantage of her allies, When, however, it became known in the East that his late Mejesty characterized the affair of Navarino as •‘ as un toward event," an expression which no King should have been advised to use under such circumstances, the Viceroy of Egypt considered the time had come when lie could make ear advantageously on Turkey, without the interference of either England or France. Russia, therefore, was forced into that war ; and, for his own part, he must say that, driven as Russia was into such a position, she was perfectly entitled to all the advantages which she had reaped from it. As Russia had shown such activity in augmenting the navy, he thought this country ought not to remain supine in this respect.— ( Hear, hear.) Lord PA LME RSTON would first answer the questions which the Hon. Member for Birmingham bad put to him. His first question was, whether any measures were intended to be adoitted to prevent the naval armament of Russia at Cronstadt ? With respect to the equipment of a fleet by a Foreign Power, he apprehended no Government could inter fere ; neither did he think any Government could ask another nation what ships they were building, or what veze.ele they equipped ; but he at the same time admitted that the inquiry was one whieit every Government was entitled to make when they saw a specific force either by sea or land. which was an appearance indicating intentions the were unnecessary as regarded other Powers. The naval armament of Russia in the Baltic had led to an explanation between the English and the Russian Governments, and he could only say that the explanation given by the Russian Government was perfectly satisfactory, and, although the Russian fleet was fitted out for the purpose of being reviewed, the fullest as surance was given that this display of a naval force was not in tended as any indication of hostile intentions.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the next question of the Hon. Member, as to wtether it was the intention of her Mejesty's Government to give assistance to the Circassian*, his answer was, that it was not the intention of Her Majesty's Government to inter fere in any Nay in the war between Russia and the Circas sians. As to the next question, as to whether it WAS the intention of her Majesty's Government to adopt any measures for obtaining redress in the affair of the Vixen, his answer was, that the papers relating to that transaction, and a'.l that took place on the subject, were laid before the House during the last Session. He thought that the Russian Govern inent had given such an explanati in with reference to the affair of the 6 ixen as ought to satisfy he. - Majesty's Go vernment that no further proceeding should be adopted either as regarded the honou r of England- or the claim of the own ers for redress. It wile not a violation of the blockade in the sense in which the Honourable Member used the term, but a contravening of the municipal or custom-house regu lations of Russia, which gave rise to the capture of the Vixen. The question which the Hon. Member next asked was whe ther her Majesty's Government intended to adopt any mea sures either for rescinding or abandoning the treaty of Un kiar Skelessi. The papers connected with this treaty wore laid before the House two years ago, and as the whole matter was then fully discuseed, he had only to inform the Hon. Mem ber that it was not the intention of her Majesty's Government to have recourse to any measuri s for compelling either Russia or Turkey, two independent nations, to cancel this treaty _ ( Hear, hear.) He did not think it necessary for him to fol low the Hon. Member through his statements respecting the wars between the Saxons and the Danes, nor would he attempt any vindication of the Government of the Duke of Welling ton in 1628 and 1829, as it was sufficient for him so confine himself to those matters which wore connected with the Go vernments of Lord Grey and Lord Melbourne, of which he had the [concur to be a Member. Neither the Radicals nor any other of the Ilon. Member's friends partook of his alarms, and it was clear that the Membe: s of that House, that the press— the b ise, unfeeling, heedless press—that the people of Eng laud, did not participate ie his opinions or share in his alarms. It was not in the principles for which the Hon. Member had contended that he (Lord Palmerston) differed with him ; it was simply in the application of these principles, in connection with what lead been stated by the Hon. Member. The Hon. Member seemed much more anxious to find an occasion fur going to war than to entertain any serious apprehension that war would be forced upon us. The Honourable Mem ber, feeling that this House would obint, with their eyes open, go to war, had imitated the and and sooth • ie e e e l Manner of a Noble Lord now a Member of the other 1 1 1- lOuse of Parliament, of whom it was said that he often accomplished by good humour what other persons had not been able to effect by more vigorous and pugnacious pro. ceedings. If they were to act upon the advice of the Hon. Member flaw•• should go and burn the Russian fleet in the Baltic, destriy the fleet in the Black Sea, and, as the friends of the Sultan, take possession of the Dardanelles, and hold them until such time as he (the Sultan) would be better able to keep them himself.—( A laugh.) This was certainly an easy mode of sliding into war at a time when there were no measures directly leading into it. The Hon, Member had professed a great anxiety for the interests of the country, and he had shown so great a zeal and attachment to the honour and institutions of the country that he said that, to defend either, hp was prepared to sacrifice the House of Lords, the House of Commons, eed the Crown into the bargain, and to throw the national debt into the ocean of oblivion rather than the institutions of the country should suffer or t h e n ational honour be tarnished —( A laugh ) And when by the destruction of the national debt, the Honourable Member should have succeeded in effecting a national bankruptcy, and w hen, moreover, he should have destroyed the House of Lords and House of Commons, he was at a loss to know where the Honourable Member would find the institutions, and the honour, too, for the prwrvation of which he would seek to contendl—( A laugh.) With respect taw tho Rtissir fleet in the Baltic, the Government had acted on the priniicple that England had a right to look with jealousy on any ostentatious display of naval force in IA Russia or any other foreign Pow; r night indulge. But when tle. llonouralle Member said that there was a considerable display of naval force o:, the part of Russia, and that we should look to cur own naval establishment, and consider it ssi..h reference to our means of maintaining a war, that was a doctrine which he ( Lord Pal merston) by no n.eans felt himself bound to concede, aad which, moreover, it would not be prudent to act ups. It was a nice distinction to decide upon, and one which ought a! all times to be left to the prudence and responsibility of the Executive Government, who knew fcom day to day the nwure of the relations existing between this and foreign Governments. They should be allowed to judge what was the time of peace, and when there was no immediate prospect of war before them, what ought to be the amount of a peace establishment. Whilst they took care that they should not be left without adequate protection, they should not unnecessarily increase the burthens of the country. The Hon. Member would r collect that two years ago, when a proposition was made by his lion. Friend the Secretary to the Adetiralty to increase the navel force of the country, that proposition was not satin. factory to ,me parties in the House. He did not recollect whether, in making that proposition. his lion. Friend hail fully stated the grounds on which the Government had decided on proposing that augmentation. but he believed that his Hun Friend had at that time called the attention of the House to the naval armaments of Russia, an d to the periodical equip ment of her fleets. He did not admit, as far as her Majesty's Government were acquainted, that there was aey ground to think that there was an intention on the part of any Foreign Power to insult England—( Ilea-) but he believed that, if any such intentions could be en tertained, the ships we had now at sea would be perfectly well able to protect this country from Russia or from any other Power whatever.—( Hear.) He thought that the House ought to place confidence in the Executive Government, to determine on their own responsibility, what amount of naval force it was necessary to propose to Parliament. Wieh re spect to the first point of the Hon. Member's speech, with re spect to the fleet in the Baltic, he should not be-itate to state that be thought that Russia had a larger naval force than was requisite for any defence of her own territory, or than was consistent with the general practice of other countries in the time of peace. That certainty was a point to which the House and the country were bound to direct a watchful eye. This vigilance was quite right and becoming. But he did not appreheed at present any hostile proceedings on the part of Russia. Having, then, reason to be satisfied that Russia did not entertain any intentions hostile to this country ; thinking, that, on the contrary, she was disposed to be friendly towards this country, under these circumstances the Govern ment did not feel it necessary to propose any further additions to our naval force, on the ground which had been stated by the Hon. Member for Birmingham. The Hon. Member had also adverted to the aggressions of Russia upon the coast of Circassia, and the Hon. Member had quoted an expres sion said to have been used by him ( Lord Palmerston) on a former occasion ; but if the Hon. Member would more strictly tax his memory he would find that the expression at tributed to him was not exactly that which he had used on the occasion referred to. He (Lord Palmerston) stated on a fernier occasion that which he would state at present, that the claim of Russia to the sovereignty of Circassia was not well founded on the grounds on which Russia stated that she rested that claim. The Hon. Member had quoted some olvervaion which he stated him to have made with respect to the Vixen. Now, on that occasion he expressed no opinion upon that point whatever. On the contrary, he stated that the matt , r was then under the con.ideration of the Governments of the two countries, and that if the result should turn out not to be satisfactory, he would feel it his duty to state the fact to the House. That result was explained fully in the papers that had been laid upon the table of the House, and the explan..tion given was of such a nature as would not justify them in pursuing the matter any further. The Honourable Member in the course of his speech was not content with strangling Ministt r after Minist-r, but he felt bound to brWs in the cardect of Lord Durham, and to call in question the manner in which his Noble Friend had discharged his duties at the Court of St. Petersburgh. Now, there was no person who could speak better on that subject than he (Lord Palmers ton.) It was with him that his Noble Friend cor. f@RPondcd d i men; iris entire residence at the Court uf ifussia, and, so tar frem the Earl of Durham menifests jug indifference to the honour of this country, it was imros sible for any one to have served his country with more zeal than he did. He had served his country well, and those ssrvices had been appreciated, and he had received at the hands of hie late Mt;jesty a well-merited token of his appro. batlon of those services. The interests of this country with respect to Russia could net have been more anxiously taken care of by the Honourable Member for Birmingham himself than they had been in the hands of Lord Durham. The Ho nourable Member was quite rnlstelten if he thought that this country was disposed to . send forth all her naval thunders when d( aline with a weak power like Venseuela, and that they shrunk bacl, when they had to deal with a great Power like Russia. The Honourable Member had laid great stress on the case of the Vixen, but there was also the case of the Lord iSpenfrr. This vessel, though net p4plorott was seised by a leuseian pruisereseehe was det al aed spate heere aed carried out of her course. On a complaint being made to the Ru.mian Government, and the fact being inquired into, it was found that the transeetion had occurred ehreugh the mist tke of the Russian officer in command of the cruiser, and en ape: logy was made to the Government of this coun!ry, anti coin= pensation given to the owner of the vessel for the . l. - ss he had suffered by her detention and lose of time in having been turned out of her course. The Hon. Member had said a great deal concerning the treaty of Unkiar Skelcssi ; but that treaty was now one of the acknowledged treaties of Europe. There would be no use in England now going ti war to force the abrogation of that treaty. It existed only for a limited period, and when it terminated he did not think that the two Powers would find it Leet's , ary that the engagements it involved should be renewed. With regard to the speech of the Hon. Member, he would do him full justice as to the motives of his conduct with resnect to the principles on which be had argued. He I differed with him entirely as to the propriety of interference in the circumstances in which we stood. He thought that the country was never more secure against foreign enemies th an at p-eseot; and that the honour of the country never stood higher than it did now. The Hon. Member had stated on this occasion what he had eften statel before, that the count' y had given a guarantee of 800,000,0001. of debt 85 a secur i ty to keep pt este with foreign Pi+tions• Put surety the lion. Member did not think that this was the only country that Lad financial difficulties to contend with. Did the Honourable Member mean to say that Russia would find no financial difficeitlee In the way of an offensive war? Did ho think that if Russia, which the Ilan, Member had represented ae the great terror of Europe, attempted an offensive war against this country, that we should not be in a condition to resist and repel the attack ?—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Hon. Member was much mistaken if he thought that Russia could find the means of any offensive war which England united, in spite of her debt, would not find herself able and ready to repel ? Now, during the war, which terminated in 1815, what were the sums paid to Russia for her part in the war ? She received from England subsidies to the amount of 7.000,0001., and from France 4,000,000/. as her share of the subsidies. This was the means of furnishing the 160,000 men which he himself (Lord Palmerston) saw assembled on th e plains of Champagne. Russia expended in reviews in the north and in the south that money which, if properly expended might give occasion for the alai ms that had been expressed by ti-e Hon. Meather. But it weuld require more means and money than Russiacould readily command, before those troops could be concentrated and marched to any country which might be destined fur their attack. He repeated that Russia was by no means in circumstances to justify apprehension. He would wilt, in conclusion, to quiet the Hun. Member's appre hensions. The Hon. Member might be assured that the Thames was in no danger. Sheerness e ould not be attacked —the buoys need not be cut--and the Hon. Member might go to sleep from this well next April, or until this time twelve reolnh, perfectly secure that his slumbe , s would not be dis turbed by the intelligence that a Russian Beat had anchored in the Pool, and that Russian soldiers were marching through the streets of London. —( Ministerial cheers.) Mr. MACLEAN said, in a former debate the Noble Lord had censured the conduct of Russia with respect to Crcassia. On that occasion the Noble Lord had stated that though Russia was not bound in that particular step by the treaty of London, yet she had entered voluntarily into its ertgagemeets, and was bound so far as a veluntary declaration. It had been distinctly understood on the part of Russia, that she would not look for the acquisition of territory, yet, notwithstanding, she had obtained an acquidtion of territory of two hundred miles extent, from the south of Cuban to Fort Nicole. The lion Member referred to the letter of the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Foreign Afftirs, addressed to Lord Durham, in May 1837, and urged that our Government sanctioned the occupation by Russia of the coast of Circassia. In the treaty of 1782, a treaty fully acknowledged by Russia, that (Circassia) was guaranteed as Turhi-ii territory. There could be now no question that Russia was bona fide in possession of the whole of the coast of Circassia. The Noble Lord must recollect that the Russian Government claimed a right to establish sanitory regulations along the coast ; but they went further, for they claimed a right to search vessels approaching that coast. Whilst Circassia was in the possession of Turkey this country had the same right to trade there, by paying the same dues paid at any other Twkisb port, but upon that coast she was now forbidden to land goods of any description which were not included in the Russian Tariff, and the commerce of England was in this respect greatly impedsd. With respect to the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi, the fact of a large armament in the Black Sea would seem to argue sonic ulterior designs on the part of Russia, and if Rus s ia was secure in her confidence in that treaty, for what purpose was the keeping up a la.-ge armament in that mare clausum, unless touard the coast of Circassia ? It was a subject of great importa g nce to our commercial interes ts. This trade of Trebizond alone was worth a million a-year to this country. It was a question of too much importance to be lost o cm f u , omxt a c i or t t d ,naAn s tc h (T)e o Tsa u , l ‘hti d %eitvo b it,r, e oiuns brought o n n v forward e a r La ienr. would U n d n e o r t t e h r e e se cir ss his seeing that the sense of the House was against his pressing the question to a division, felt it his duty to yield to it. But he would tell the Government that, if they did not change their question would be forceldi"uHYP eon t b h ,t. : Qi; e me a d y nt % o v would vl u d t r o na m e.3r, e tthhweehye resolu tions, could i is !Wittig' avert nor avoi P ; The resointions, whjeh had been put seeiatim, we r 0 then , b y leave, withdrawn. MUNICH' BOUNDARIES BILL. Mr. V. SMITE) moved for leave to introduce a 1311 to settle the boundaries of boroughs in England and \Vales. With some trifling exception, the Bill was the same as one which he had introduced last year. It the House gave him leave to introduce the Bill he would propose that it elleuld tie read a first time and printed. There would then be time during the recess to circulate the Bill amongst the different that would be alfcct,d by it, aod att-r it had been considerel he would be happy to receive any sug gestions from any fl;m. Member towards the imprcvement of its provisions. Ti:e only exception male to the Bill of last tear was placing the situ of Exeter in the same position in which it was before, and ins'ead of the Parliamentary boun dary, restoring to it the old municipal boundary. This he had consented to do on the representation of both the 71 , 1,mbers for Exeter, representing, as they did, yArious interests there. fie hoped there woull be no objection to alLw him to introduce the Bill. Mr. G ASKELL hoped that he would not fix an early day for the second reading. Mr. V. SMITII suggestcl that it might probably be fixed for the middle of Febr , .iary. Mr. WILLIAMS said if the Bill was tile same as last year it would most injuriously affect the boraugh of Coventry, and he would feel bound to give it every opposition in his Mr. G. F. YOUNG thought the Ilan. Member ought to state the objects of the BT. There w , re many Members pre sent who did not knJw what were tl:e pruvisions of the former Mr. V. SMITH said if the- lion. Member would call on him he watill Le happy to give him every information on the subject. Mr. BORT II WICK was of opinion that the Bill would re quire some alterati-in. Mr. HINDLE Y was favourable to the Bill, as he thought it would afford an opportunity of enlarging the small constitu encies. Leave was then given, and the Bill was rea d a fi rs t time. Mr. DENISTOUN wished to call the attention of the House to the consideration of a petition from the spirit-dealers of Glasgow, praying for an alteration of the present licensing system. It was a very great hardship that persons ahoce qua lifications were severely scrutinised when their licenses were originally granted should be compelled year after year to be at the same trouble in repeating their applications. No injury would be done to the revenue by an alteration of the system, whilst meat inconvenience would be spared to respectable in dividuals engaged in the trade. Another objection to the pre sent system of licensing was, that it put a power into the hands of magistrates which might be turned to account in influencing elections. He would conclude by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law of regulating the granting of spirit licences in Scotland. Mr. WALL ACE seconded the motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that this was not a fiscal question, but one relating to the moral conduct of the parties receiving the licenses. He ad mitted the hardship of compelling an annual application, but at the same time the conduct of persons keeping public houses should be more closely 'coked to than that of other-, and their certificates should be strictly scrutinised before li censes were granted in the first instance, bat beyond that there was no further necessity, unless some complaint were made or some offence proved. He would not speak to the point of magisterial influence, but he admitted that even the liability ought to be removed. Limited as the object of this Bill ap peared to he, he had no objection to it. Mr. CH APM AN stated that there was a precedent for this measure in Irel :lid, and it was found to work well. Sir R. INGLIS thought the arguments of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if good as ratted to spirit dealers, ought to extend still further. He was of opinion, however, that if an inquiry was necessary before the grant cf . the original license it was equally necessary afterwards. Mr. F. BARING thought the original certificate quite suf. ficient, and he was sure the Hon. Baronet, if he knew the hardshi.s which such frequent applications occasioned, would be one of the first to do away with them. Mr. HUME was glad to hear what had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as there was now some prospect of their legislating on principle. He agreed with the Hon. Baronet, that the argument would support a further extensiop, and if the principle were good there was no reason why it should not take place. Mr. FORBES would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, bit would reserve the right of opposing it at a future stage if he thought fit. He was not a-quainted with Glasgow, het he was not aware that the power of licensing was used by the magistrates for political purposes in any county with which he was acquainted. —( Hear, hear.) It was of the utmost im portance that such houses should be kept by persons of unim peachable character. An HON. MEMBER said there was no doubt that parties seating licences canva - scd the magistrates (as we understood), and R:omised to support their friends at the elections, Ho hailed the Chancellor of the Exchequer's admission with re spect to this Bill, and hoped it would be extended to England. Leave INA 3 then given, Oa the motion of Mr. HAWES, the name of Mr. Acland was substituted for that of Lord Viscount Howick on the W. tropolitan Police Committee. WAKLEY presented A potitiqn from Mr. Thome Green, and moved fo r 4 rotwo of the correspondence between the etlliticlate And the Lords of the Treasury. He did so as a matter of form, as the Treasury, also acting on a formal oh, jeetion, refused to make compensation in mos lilt@ the present u:Ail the question was first brought before the House. The C A NcELLO it of the EXCHEQUER seconded the prop 4 :,ition, kod explained that the object of the formality tg obviate fraudulent claims which miglit otherwise be Blade under peculiar circumstances, Mr. WARBURTON, a 7, Qhalrman of the Committee to which the services had been rendered 'whereon the claim was fotltidod, 041A14 assure the House that it was a bona fide one. It hwl in the first instance been made for 801., but he had taxed it down to 251., which he consic'eced to be the proper amount. After a few words from Mr. Hume, Sir R. Inglis, and Mr. F. Baring, Mr. NV AK LE Y said that, as his object had been eff.,cted in going through the fore of bringing the matter before the House, he should aithdraw his motion fur the production of the correspondence. BODMIN ELECTION. Mr, BULLER niaved the adjourned debate on the Bod ruin election recognizance. He re-stated the difficulty of Mr, Harrison's positron, and thought that under all the circum stances of that gentleman's CAW the House ought to allow the substitution of anuthee name as surety for the prosecution of the petition. If the extension of thirty days, as had been pro period, were carried, it would not remove Mr. Harrison's diffi culty, as the House would not be sitting at the time. The only question for the House to consider was, whether the surety was real or not. He would, therefore, move that Thomas Merrick Peel, of Aihion-street, Hyde Park, should be substi tuted as a surety in the Badmin election petition in place of Edward Harrison. Sir T. FRE MANTLE felt himself bound to oppose the proposition made by the Hon. and Learned Member. He thought that they ought in all such matters to remember that they were acting in a judicial capacity, and he would put it to the good faith of the other party if that would appear to be the case if the course proposed was to be alopted? The Gentle man who was the surety might be prepared to establish his right, but he thought the petitioner had also a right to know whether his surety was, not only solvent, but willing. Every facility ought to be afforded by the exteniion of time to allow of the surety's return from Paris. He should, therefore, move, as an amendment, that the time allowed to Mr. Harrison be enlarged to thirty days. The SOLICITOR GENERAL quite agreed with the Hon. Baronet opposite that they should remember they were acting in a judicial capacity, and that such questions should be decided without any reference to party feeling. In this case there was the argument a priori airnittel that the party in question was ready to enter into the recognizances, but there was also the argument a posteriori that he did enter into the rccogniznnces before the magistrates, and did all that the Act of Parliament required. Mr. MAC LEAN said that the reeognisances had not been entered into, but an affidavit only had been made before the magistrates at Dover, which was a very different thing. If the gentleman were well enough in the time proposed to come from Paris he would no doubt also be well enough to go from Dover to Edinburgh, if the Speaker should be there, so the" the business might be completed. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the original motion For the amendment 111‘.jority DUCHESS OF KENT'S ANNUITY BILL 66 30 -27 On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the E XCHE- QUER, the Duchess of Iccnt's Annuity Bill was read a se cowl time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow (this day.l Sir T. FREMANTLE moved that the petition of Mr. Ellis, relating to the Bodmin election recognizance, be printed, and intima' ed his intention of submitting a motion to the House on the subject to-morrow (this day), if, upon further inquiry, he though the case was as good as it then appeared to him.-- Ordered to be printed. Mr. D. W. HARVEY gave notice that he would to move, on the question of due provision of the Civil List being brought forward, that it was the right of Parliament to reserve to itself the power of future investigation into the reve nues of the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster respectively. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, aid the House adjourned at Ten o'Clock, A melancholy accident occurred towards the close of last month at the Theatre de la Scala, at Milan, during the first representation of the ballet of Hector Fieramoxca. In one of the scenes Hector Fieramosca th'ows himself head long from the summit to th e f oo t o f the mountain in the background. A due quantity of mattresses, &c. had been disposed to receive the actor who played the part ; but, in taking his leap, he overshot his mark, cleared the mattresses, and fell head foremost against the box in which the prompter usually sits. The unfortunate man's brains were literally (lathed out on the stage. Every assistance was immediately rendered, but in vain, as the victim had expired on the spot where he fell. An inquiry having . been il:stituted into the circumstances of the ense, by order of the authorities, it appeared in evidence that the actor, who had perished in so untimely a manner, had frequently expressed his intention of committing su:cide, and it was generally believed that his death, in the manner we have described, was the result of premedita tion on his part--not of accident, as on a close inspection of the scene of the catastrophe it was proved to be impos.ib l e that any person could unintentionally have cleared the interval between the top of the theatrical mountain and the prompter's x- A subserip.ion was opened for the benefit of the wid ow ht-t And children of the deceased. The late Master of the Rolls made an e xtraordinary will—t o his eldest son, Sir B. *Mahon, Bart., he left 1,000/. a year, and a stun of money to be applied in no other way but by a purchase of a company in the Guards. Aftg disposing of his other sow, his landed prcverty is to accumulate for the heir of air Get:esford, who will be married in a few days.— , Irish . Paper. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, DECEMBER 15, 1537 MR. O'CONNELL IN BIRMINGIIAM. (BY EXPRESS.) Mr. O'CoNNELL paid a visit to Birmingham on Thurs day (yesterday), on his way to Irefan l ; at the request. of several influential Reformers in the t.,am, 1 :rolong-d stay a few hours, in order to address the " Men of Bir mingham." Although his arrival was totally uncspekt yet the moment his carriage was recognised at the Sxan lintel, an immense assemblage cAlected in the Town-h where it was speedily ascertained he wool-1 address the p: ogle. A fewminutes before twoo'clock (about half anhour after his arrival), Mr.O'Connell, accompanied by anumerous body of gentlemen, entered the Organ Gallery of the Hall, amidst the most deafening and enthusiastic cheers of the im mense multitude. The building at this moment presentel the most imi.,oiing spectacle we ever recollect to have wit tyssse.l—the body of the hall being elo , ely crammed Ly a dense mass of the working classes, the side .z-tilsnies o•Tuped principally by ladies. Altogeth-• r, there could not be less than 6,000 individt.!s assen,b:,(l to do honour to this patriotic and distinguished ft inid of his country and mankind. When the cheering had somewhat SOl)Aled, JOSHUA SCHOLFIELD, M.P., eeme forward amidst renewed cheers, to take the chair. lie said that he was not aware till late last evening that his distinguished friend on his right was likely to pass through Wralingham, and con;eque he di I not know that he was to address them that morning. But he need not tell thorn that a greater pleasure could not possibly have been afforded him than en opportunity of hearing this distinguished and ealightenrd friend of man. —(Loud applause.) Toms were a few points, he be lieved, on which his excellent friend and himself differed —(Hear)—but it was his high, st pride—his greatest honour here, and his most fervent hope hereafter, to think that on some of those points dearest to man he was espe cially a fellow-laboarer with his distinguished Friend,.... (Great cheering.) Ile would advert very briefly to a meet ing which took place in London a few day: ago, in which he need not say that they all took a lively interest, and that was on beha!f of the poor, opprs=e:l, ill-used Polish nation. To have heard the e!equence or M. O'Con nell upon that occasion wooli have excited the deepest emotions of sympathy in their hearts.—( Hear, hear.) He has a'so heard him, on a recent occasion, appeal to the justice and sympathy of the British people in behalf of another insulted and degraded class of their n 11 nv-creatures with equal power ancl feeling, and he must say that the very best friend and advocate of the unhappy negro was to be found in Daniel O'Co.anll.—(lmmcnse cheering.) There were particular cases in which the sympthi,s of all good men were united, and it was not, thee., a matter of surprise that Lis Hon. Friend should have stood forward as the friend and protector of those unhappy little beinp, the Factory Children.—( Hear, hear.) Tacy talked of the cruelty endured by the Poles--they talked of the cruelty perpetrated upon the negroes ; the cruelty to the poor in rant of six or seven years of age exceeded either of these. —(Shame, shame.) To think that out of the forms— no, not the forms, for they were yet scarcely formed— but that out of the flesh and muscles of th EC poor child ren should be picked the interest of that internal debt— for by what other name could he designate it—a debt, which neither himself nor those whom he addressed had any hand in originating—was a de- p, an indeible, a na tional disgrace.—(Tremendous cheers.) lf, again, they looked to Ireland, there Mr. O'Con .el. st od pre-emi nently forward as the friend and benefacter of his eauntry. —(Applause.) What Ireland had bet n, and what Irel teal then was, they could all judge ; but they tuti,t go a step ferther, and say that they owed all that had been done for Ireland to Mr. O'Connell.—(Cheers.) He hid come ! amongst them that day to address them, and to expres his sentiments on the present state of public affairs. If he could give hopes, which he confessed he did not possess, it must be gratifying to all, and to gene more so than to himself to hear them ; but upon this he (Mr. Seholeficld) was sure they would ngroe, that all that could be done by man—all that virtue, and courage, and talent cou!d effect would lie done by Mr. O'Connell.—(Great cheering.) Il e believed that his excellent colleague (Me. Attweead) and himself would never displease them, wuen ileey were found at the side of Mr. O'Connell fighting the battles of justice and freedorn.....(Reneyteil cheers.) Theirs was a peaceful struglo i and tho',:gl; their enemies would wish to drive them to OP.`. of violence, let thorn still adhere to the course Marked out by Mr. O'Connell—" Agitate ! agitate! agi tate !"—and he had no doubt that before long they would find justice done to England—to Scotland—and to Ire land too.—(Tremendous cheering.) The Rev. T. M. MACUONNELL came forward to move the following resolution :—" That the thinks of this meet ing are eminently due, and are cordially presented to Da niel O'Connell for his general, indefatigable, and powerful advocacy of the rights of all mankind." It would, said Mr. Macdonnell, be his duty to endeavour to prove to them the justleo of this tribute to Mr. O'Connell.— (Cries from the body of the Hall of " No, we know it.") But as some gentlemen below him said they were already aware of this, he hoped they would take Mr. O'Cennelfs speech on this subject as a part of his ()an, and when thet part of his speech was finished, be again come for ward and propose his resolution.---(Cheering and laughter.) Mr. O'CONNELL, on. earning forward, was again greeted with such a hearty and-enthusiastic reeep,ion as we believe the " Mon of Birminglialt" can alone give full effect to. When the cheering, whielt lasted a consAeraUe time, had somewhat subsided, he sail—He did not well know how they could take his speech as any part of that of lit Rev. Friend—( Laughter)—beeause he intended to oppose his motion— ( Laughter)—nnd unless their native country had given them a privilege to speak for and against a question, they couid not call them one speech.— (Continued roars of laughter.) Now, he would tell them why he opposed this motion, and it was this, that he should deem it an act of the highest presumplion on his part to imagine of himself that he could say any thing to the intel ligent and patriotic men of Birmingham, wl,ich would be necessary to guide or direct their efforts better than the excellent men to be found amongst themselves who had so long guided their councils.—(Cheers.) He had no such presumption, and he therefore appeared before them that day, not at lits own instigation, but at the request of others in whose judgment lie had a higher opinion and a greater confidence than he had or ought to have in his own. But now that he was there, his business was to talk to them.— (Great cheering and laughter.) And the first thing he had to say to thorn was this, that he owed a deep debt of gra titude individually to Birmingham—that Scotland owed a debt of gratitude to Birmingham—but, above all, that Ireland owed a debt of the deepest gratitude to the men of Birmingham, but for whose exertions—and lie spoke the language - of undoubted truth—the Reform Bill would never have been passed.—(Hear. hear, and im mense cheering.) But that the men of Birmingham met and debated, and were reselved—( Hear, hear)—but that bey frowned, and those frowns told their rulers that, like ,e thunder-cloud, ,they would be followed by the light- nine's flash—(Cheers)----but that they were determined cn Reform, that Reform Bill would never have been passed.— Applause.) He remembered it well. Some of the advisers of the late King told him that the Reform Bill went too far, and p.srhaps they would like to know that they wished. Why, that Old Sarum, which boasted of a single tree, and Old Gatton, which had its mound of earth, should continue to send representatives to Parliament, but that the popu lous, the wealthy, and the intelligent town of Birming ham should not be represented--( Laughter and cheei A most preposterous idea, truly ! but the m n of arming ham thought otherwise, and while the question was loised as it were in a balance, they heard the tramp fi o:n ming,ham—they heard the sound of coll'ng feet—they knew that there were brae and determined hearts and firm hands in Birmingham, and the Reform Bill was car ried.—(lmmense cheering.) He thanked the men of Bir mingham heartily for what they ha I done, but they owed the people of England and the people of Ireland more.— RHear, hear, bear.) They owed them another bit of eform.—(Great laughter and cheering.) He confessed that his chances of getting that, depended much upon the organization, the determination, and the agitation of Bir mingham.—(Hear, hear.) But he would tell them this, they were in the centre—the very heart of England, and it they wisely, and discreetly, and determinedly rose and agi tated again, they would have more reform and more jus tice.—(Cheers.) " What !" it might be said by some, " have you not had Reform enough •e"• No, I thank you, say I.—(Great laughter.) He admitted that they had struck off in the former Bill fifty-six rotten boroughs—that was a good sweep of rascality to get rid of at one blow— (Laughter)—and that there were one hundred others which he would not call quite rotten, to whom they had given a kind of paralytic stroke ; but this th; y had since dis covered, instead of doing any service to the p Irty intended to be benefited—inscad of giving strength and vigour, and producing a healthy generation—had produced a dwarfish race of plunderers and p 'culators, who exercised the power of doing more misitief than before.—( Hear, and cheers.) Schedule A was a good schedule—it cleared out all the corruption together ; but schedule B was a bad schedule — for it left half the vermin alive, and that was not the way to destroy vermin in any honest house.—(Laughter.) He ac knowledged that, apparently at first sight, the Tories had this advantage over tho.n. They s hid, you told us' the people of England would get good and cheap govo!nm3nt by the Reform Bill—you told the men of B:rmingham, who carried it that tax ition would be diminishe 1, that the pony man would have more of his own, that he would he beeter remunerated for his ir.dastry, aid that. the abominable bread tax would be abolished, He (Mr. O'Cont;e11) ac knowledged that they thought s ) at the time, and he be lieved the Tories were also of th t opinion ; for what war their conduct at the time ? Why, that Sir Robert Peel, who is as fond of penions as any hungry fellow is of a meal of meat—(Laughter)-..seeing that the height of o ssev es, r-- by corruption was elem. c mi g to al en d \ 4 /I=Ng pee ormo us amount of the pcop:e's m they in ' etstaerfeb short week.—(Cheers.) Pe s.w that tlf.4l3oticbitOikrifAsi placed a gulf between him aid po.ver—he el:spired of ever again coming into office, and determine-1 to watch the progress of the measure, and if possible resid-r h a nullity, if he did not present. it doing a,onl. Like the laden Angers, described by Milton, he and his ploy lay flesindesin; beneath on the burning pool of Referteh until (m , Ole Peet went on to dese Pro the Satanic host) rising from the fell sea in which their enemies had flunti them, Toty4lll risen again, and made another sttanteel attefilet IA a lee the dominion of fair England, and make ita people &LOU, —(lmmense cheering.) The result Of their efforts Weli too well known. Tee)? bad returned a m e t irit7 et Represetie tatives to Parliament for the oodles a t the last eieut;ed. and a large situnhor fur the l ''::oughs.—(No, no.) No, ti wao nut Own, ; the men of Birmista tt e ear e ni n s;a e e-- • ..ev to tied boiler stuff ; for two liosesese Lav e titan their worth y It pre.sentatives never drew the hrea'h of life.—(lmm-nse cheering,) But what had the Tories dime ? They had used intimid ttion—they had forced the unwilling electors to vote for them in the Counties—and is the Boroughs, they had bribed them. Thus they had been guilty of bribery and intimida tien, and last, and worst of all, they had been guilty of he pecrisy.—(llear, hear.) They had assailed the naturally religious feelings of the people of England, and told them— what ?—why, that it was inconsistent with thei • Christia nity that (idlers should have fair play and justice. ( Laughter and cheers.) They sad if they did not pay the clergyman who:n they nsver saw, and whom they dal not w tnt, twice as much as the ,minister who laboured for them (a thing, by the way, which Englishmen did not like) — that the Church wsuld be pulled down, and religion endan esresl.—(G: eat cheering.) For this object, he admitted thy could rot find fitter instruments than ireitnidation, bribery, and corruption ; and what was the consequence ? The people would hive been satisfied with the Reform Bill; they wou'lliave e..de :veered by its means to work out good thi ge ; s h y would hay. o ideavoured to lessen taxation, and give industry a better scope—they would have endea voured to rsuisely the unfortunate fluctuations of the carreney.—(Great cheering.) With the Reform 8.1 l they might have done all this, but the Tories would not let them. They intervened—they blotted nut for ever the Reform B.ll—they had anniailated it—they mad it work for evil instead of for good.—(lmmense cheering.) They were still on the watch for the solid poueds and pence, and what they valued still more, the titles of honour ; and it was only the other day that they came forward in a bedy to support the Pension L'st without examination.—( Hear, bear.) Oa the 16th of November, IB3J, the Duke of Welltn;ton's Administration was broken up ; and would they like to know how much of the public money they squandered aw,,y on that very day in the shape of pensions? Just 1.000/. per annum for three lives. But this was not all. On the 20th of November, the dsy which they actually went out of office, they gave a pension to the wife of a Member of Parliament of 6601. a year.—(" Shame, Shame.") ad they understand Tory jobbing now ! In one week to m..ko away with 1,6601. of the public money. —(Renewed cries of " Shame, shame!") Oh, what a number of poor families would th's sum have supported to the year's end! Ho.v many would it not have saved from want ; and what numbers of deserving and industrious men would it not have supplied with a meal of food ! But such was the character of Toryism. Msn out of office would have had the decency to consent to an inquiry.—(Cheers.) With FO many inducements to be honest even from policy —with so many crying them up, and saying they were tr. good as the Whigs—they sti'l had not even the t ffeetation oF doing good.—(Loud cheers.) One would suppose they would have put themselves in the position described by the poet in the well-known distich-- e When the &0., was ill, The desil a milk would be; When the devil got well, The devil a monk was he." (letatighter.) But when they would not eNect theme when Jut of office, what could be expected ef them when in office, and when they had the power of plundering the people again.—(Resiewed cheers.) lie had already said, that the Tories had prevented tbe Reform Bill from working as it ought. Now, what ":ere they, the Reformers of England called upon to do ? Men of Birmingham, the Tories have spoiled your jeis. Ycu must give them another job which they shall not spoil.—(lmmense cheering and laughter.) The real national debt was due to the people. You were promised all. You got an instalment of it. The Tories fiched it front you. Therefore, up, Men of Birmingham and get the rest.—(Loud and continued cheering.) The ext Reform must be a more sweeping one, or you have not common sense, or common honesty.—(Renewsd cheers and laughter.) I would have been satisfied myself with a cmisider als extension oF the franchise. I would have bean satis fied with household suffrage, but I conf s , now I tlii. k all England should cal aloud for universal suffrage.— (Tremendous cheering.) He (Mr. O'Connell) t .ought t' e Tories had rendered this absolutely necessary, aid he a . not a bit sorry for it.—(R mewed cheers.) But they e not secure—their i rapt rties were nat secure—and, b ;ve all, that most sacred of all property, their I.beer, was n. t ecurc from the pluni. r :re unless every man had a vote.— (Enthusiastic cheering.) Let the Tories th n ccme out wi h their intimhlatioe. Let them come out with their bribery then. Where, he should like to know, would they get money to bribe then all ?—( Renewed cheers and laugh ter.) The next election, he supposed, they would come dewn to Birmingham with their hats full of money.— (Laughter, and cries of "No use here !") So he thought.—(Clieers.) But they would go to other places, end continue to bribe anl to corrupt. He wanted, them the men of Birmingham, to tell the Tories, as they told them before, that there must be Reform—to tell them that they had spoiled the first Reform Bill, and that they would three . nether instalment peacefully and constitutionally, and that every man must have a vote.—(Great cheering.) Ile, however, consented that some should be excluded from the esjovinent of this right. If, for instance, he found any v‘ret the:l dolt who die not wish to be on an equality with sis nei s h o it—if he found any poor slave who said he was tot fit t have a v.:Le—a:id catch this fellow if they could— (1 a seeter)— . l he found, as it was proved to be in Jamaica, th. t there were but two classes in society, a master class and a slave class, then so much the better ; but could th re be anything more degrading than that English men should be parcelled out into two communities, so ,h it one class should have votes, and the other have no votes It al? Why, he asked, should not the man who ocsupicd a 10/. house have a vote ? Did he not get his bread as honestly es the pensioned profligate, and had not God created him in human form and given him a soul as sacred as another? Bet they said the non-repre sented hrd a part to perform. They had no vote, it was true, 1 ut they were to look after those who had.—(Hear, and taught r.) Whe this was an insult. It was just com paring them to those dogs which are employed by shep herds to go barking round the floc.: in order to keem them in the pen.—(letnehter.) Tee non-electors were to be the barking d egs, while others were to have the fl ece and all the warmth t gave them.—(Great cheering and laughter.) The next thing he was very anxious for was Vote by Bal lot.—(Loud elieering for severel minutes.) If every man had a vote, end they votedby ballot, no doubt they would, h tae good r .presentatives, for no one could intimidate them. The candidate or his agent might threaten an elector before he went into the ballot box ; he might succeed in extract ine from him a promise, but it lay with the voter, when he did co in, to see whether such a elan was a fit representa tive, and whether he would not give him the little black spot which he earned, and which he had no doubt he would tecei:e.—(Lowl cheers.) Ile did not come there as the a tvocete for telling a lie—lying of any kind was bad, but was not the lie told now ? It was ; and doubly so when they were commanded to vote for some one whom they conirdered as unworthy of their choice. This was not only an officious lie, but an active lie—the worst kind of lying ; they did violence to their own conscience, and were treache rous to their country.—( Loud applause.) He did not want to encourage falsehood, but to put an end to it, and the to y worst kind of falsehood was hypocritical false hood. B. the Ballot the temptation to commit this odious mo al offence was taken away, and this was all that the best moralist could do—it was absolutely satanic to offer temptation to the poor man, and it was the part of the rr.ora ist to take it away.—(Cheers.) Bribery would also be put an end to by the Ba'lot.—(Hear, hear.) There was an old English phrase—" No man buys a pig in a poke"—(Laughter)—and no one would be fool enough to trust his money, without having some security for its value.—(Cheers.) But there was another advantage arising from the Ballot, seldom ascribed to it, and ie was this, that the man who wished to go into Parliament would use no other influence for the attainment of that object than the influence of his character, his conduct, and his public and private virtues. He would have a perpetual interest in m tking himself useful to society, and respected and bolos rd by those around him. If upon the bench, he would ad.n raster justice faithfully—he would be the poor man's friend, who would pray for him in secret as he re tired to rest, and ballot for him in sa'ety and security on the morrow.—(Loud cheers.) So bete tam Providence he verily believed there was nothing so likely to or e anize England into a society of affection and rnutu I retard, making the wealthy in station and talent anxious to emu late one another in doing good ; and if they were to in scribe on their standard of morality " The Ballot," they would find throughout universal England men earning the title of representatives and a place to Parlismsnt, only by the influence of thsir virtues.—(Cheers.) He thought as the Tories bad run away with the Reform Bill, that they should give the people this Reform in its place. Bat what did t h e y ate to tho.-e over whom they how exereis td the pow t of intimi.laion ? What did the landlord say to his te n.tnt by whose toil he hid accumuheed his wea7C-,who hal t improved and ens iched his land, and by whose labour he en. joycd every luxury he possessed ? " If you do ..oz. vot,ein.he vi._ - 1--w-: ) r.y/.4Y' t517..j.,•_1,7 :1.413) ° T: ~—,, ... . • 2 I ) .