The Sun. — London, England, 1846-03-24 00:00:00

:tiAILWAY COM mrivrEEs. (YESTERDAY.) HOUSE OF LORDS. THE BELFAST AND COUNTY Dint.7l4%. Their Lordships having formed themselves into a Com mitte on merits, proceeded to hear the case of the Belfast and County Down Railway, which was unopposed. The Bill having gone through the customary forms, was declared by their Lordships to have passed, and will be re ported to the House and set down for a third reading. HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP I.X. GLASGOW BARBOUR raINEIZA74 TZRIVIZZI US. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) To the CITAIIMAN.—The width of the basin at the mouth is 40 feet. It could be made 55 feet with the present esti mate, and he thought it would be wise to make an alteration in that respect. This closed the case for the Harbour Mineral scheme. blr. Gray, the deputy-chairman of the Clyde River Trust, was here called, and shortly examined by the Chairman re specting the dues to be charged in the Mineral Harbour Basin. The Mineral Harbour dues were to be charged on :goods, except that the charge on coal was to be Id. per ton qin each bottom, instead of 2d. With this exception, the hiu-bonr dues were chargeable independent of the scale of char-es given in schedule Aof the Harbour Mineral Bill. Mr HILL, on the part of the Grand Junction Harbour scheme, said it would be a great convenience to him if his opening statement was put off till to-morrow morning. The Committee, after some deliberation, assented, and the 'promoters of some of the other schemes in the group not being ready to go on, the Committee adjourned till to-mor- TOW at a quarter to twelve. GROUP XII. GLASGOW, PAIESSEMT, 1t11.7.V111.12.N0C1E, 1111 D ATM (NO. 2—ZIVIT:ZN2I nu—Nelms.) (Continued from Our Afternoon Diition of yesterday.) The allegation having been concluded, The agent to the Bill said there were some statements in the end of the petition, about " errors and fraudulent con trivances," which had made a great noise in the country, but which had not been proved. The Committee said they had nothing to do with sucb statements, as they had not been entered into. HAINCTILTON AND STELATILILVEN LINE. This line was opposed by John Tenant and others. The agent to the Bill said they had given notice in this case of their intention to lease and to sell to another linP. The line would not pass through any county but Lanarkshire. The length of the line is 91 miles ; the estimated cost 117,000/., or at an average of 13,000/. per mile. The first allegation of the petitioner was that the sections and plan did not show any datum horizontal line. The agent to the Bill admitted the allegation to some extent, but explained the error by reasoa of an accident baying occurred to the engineer; Lut it was afterwards corrected. Standing orders not complied with. Several other errors of this class were alleged, some o 1 which were admitted by the agent. The standing orders were declared not to have been com plied with, and the Committee then adjourned. GROUP XIV. THE ITonTn KENT LINE. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) In the course of these crosi-examinations, Mr. Vignoles stated that the cost of the line between Southwark and the point of junction with the Croydon lis.ilway would be about 292,904/., and the cost of land and stations for the same portion of the line would be perhaps 300,000/. This part of the line would be partly on a viaduct, partly on embankments, and partly on retaining walls. The estimate was not sufficient to make a viaduct the whole length, but it was sufficient for the purposes of the railway, laid out in the mariner lie had just stated. The CH AMMAN—WiII yaur estimate enable you to provide for openings under the viaducts and embankments ? Mr. Vignoles—Certainly it will. There will be several openings. The Cumnaux—Besides those for existing roads? Mr. Vignoles—Yes. The CHAIRMAN—How much of this part of the line goes over fields and gardens? Mr. Vignoles—About a mile and a half. The CHAIRMAN—DO yon contemplate that this will at some time be built upon? Mr, Viguoles—Yes, I do; and I have provided for openings accordingly. Mr. CALVSWr—Are there no sewers on this part of the line? Mr. Vignoled—Not many; and the consequence is, the land is marshy and a nuisance. The other day a child fell into one of the ditches, and was smothered before assist ance could arrive. Had there been a sewer, there would have been no ditch. _ _ Mr. CabvEßT—When was your estimate made ? Mr. Vignoles—About three months ago. 11Ir. CAlLvEfer—Have"you made no allowance since far the increase in the price of labour and materials which has taken place since that time ? Mr. Vignoles—No, lam not aware that the price of labour and materials has increased; at all events, I have not found it so where I have works in different parts of the country. The witness was then re-examined by Mr. Sergeant Wttaxonam, on behalf of the promoters of the North Kent line. The witness stated positively that the Kent hada priority of claim to the North Kent district, for in 1836 he assisted in bringing a line before Parliament passing through North Kent, and running from London to Dover. That line, which was identical with the present one from London to Chatham, was opposed by the South-Eastern Company, and thrown out by Parliament. In 1843 he proposed a line to Sittingbourne, and at this time there was only one other line in the field, but that one did not go further then Gravesend. With respect to that part of the line between Southwark and New-cross, the station at London-bridge was quite inadequate for the traffic likely to come upon the North Kent line, while it must be evident to every one that his own station. in Union. street, was amply sufficient for the North Kent traffic, and so situated that it would give better access to the west, and as good access to the east of the metropolis, as the station at London-bridge. The bridge crossing the Medway had been approved of by the Admiralty. His' line of last year went much nearer to the Powder Mills of Favershaaa than the present one, but he did not alter the direction of the - line, because he thought passing so near to the powder-mills would be dan gerous, but because he wished to remove the prejudices of the people in the neighbourhood. Mr. J. O'ComeELL—Nove, Mr. Vignolee, I wish to ask you a question ; but for fear you should not be competent to speak to this point, I will mention the matter first. It re lates to third-class fares. Mr. Vignoles—Oh, yes, I can speak to that point. Our Parliamentary low fares will be three farthings per mile, and I propose for the short traffic, such as to Woolwich, the same description, or perhaps a better description of accom modation will be given to third-class passengers than is found on the Dublin and Kingstown Railway. Mr. O'CONNELL—NO doubt the accommodation on the Dublin and Kingstown Railway is very good ; but great com plaints are made of some lines that they keep their third class passengers a long time on the road. Mr. Vignoles—lt is my wish and intention that third-class carriages should be attached to every first-class train. In my opinion companies will always find this to be the best principle. Mr. O'COYNELL—With regard to Sunday travelling, how do you propose to run the trams? Mr. Vig,noles—l propose, that except during divine ser vice, trains shall run for the short traffic as often as possible, and I think it is much less a desecration of the Sabbath to give the working man an opportunity of breathing the fresh country air, than leaving him to drink in public-houses, and en'ail the air of a smoky atmosphere. Mr. Tite, the architect, proved that the estimated cost of the land on the line was 894,815/. to which lie added 100,000/. fur building stations. This estimate included everything. _ In the esurse of cross-examination, lie said his estimate was bas 2d upon the calculation that the minimum width of the line between London and New Cross was 60 teet, and the maximum between 80 and 90 feet. The Committee adjourned at Four o'clock till Twelve o'clock to-morrow. GROUP XV. . _ The Committee met, at twelve o'clock, in the Bail Court; present, ➢lr. O'Connell, chairman, Mr. Mackinnon, Captain Hatton, Sir R. Price. 23RIGH 1 011 , 1 AND CIEICEMSTE2 (DOSNOR AND LIT TIM 21111 UPTON E 2,A.NCZES). Counsel, Mr. Austin and Mr. Meresvetlier ; agents, Burke and Co. CHICHESTER AND BOGNOR. Counsel, Mr. Johnstone and Mr. Clarke; agents, Deans, Dunlop, and Co. Mr. Rowia opposed the Brighton branches, on the part of the Duke of Richmond and other landowners, and the Com missioners of the Felpham Level. Mr. Jolla's-m/4 - E complained that the line he appeared for had been considered as an opposing line to the Brighton branch, and that if so considered, he had been unfairly treated, inasmuch as the Bill having been read a second time oil Thursday last, the standing orders of the House had not been complied with, giving them seven clear days' notice. His objections were overruled. Mr. Ausvn said the Bill on which ho appeared was for two hi - amities. The one, to Littlehampton ' started from the Leo minster station, on the Brighton and Chichester line, would be 1 1 4 miles long, and would cost 10,0001. The other branch left the same line at Woodgate, for the town of Bognor, a bathieg-place well known, and lying eight miles west of Lit tleb anapt on , and seven miles south-east of Chichester The length would be 3i miles from Woodgate to the sea, con structed at a cost of 35,000/. There would be no engineering difficulties on the lin e , an d it would be of great importance, as connecting, through 'the Brighten line, Bognor and Brighton and Lewes. The opposing line from Bognor to Chichester was in the present state of things an absurd project. Mr. Austin said it was six miles long, leading to no town except Chichester, and that with the existing communication, the distance by that line to Bri eliton and to Lewes, and to London, would be eight miles greater than by the other, and besides that disadvant age, the cost of constructing it would he 80,0001. The opposition to the Brighton line was unimportant ; the Duke of Richmond was the owner of only one field and the opposition of the Commissioners of the Felphani Level was met by a clause which he (Mr. Austin) was pre pared to introduce into the Bill, binding themselves t„) clear all embankments and dikes on the level. Mr. MErtEwrrma proceeded to prove these things by witnesses. Mr. Rastrick, the:engimer, being called,gave evidence that the sections of the Bognor and Chichester line showed erro neous levels, in consequence of which that line would be 16 feet below the other rails, where it was proposed to join them at Chichester, and that they had been tested by survey, and found incorrect. Mr. JOHNSTONE begged, on the . part of the Bognor and Chichester line, to have the examination postponed till Wednesday, that he and his friends might have the oppor tunity of considering the point of error which had been un expectedly raised, and especially that the engineer might survey the ground. The Committee having decided on going on with the case to-morrow, adjourned. GROUP XVI. Et 21.1V1P TON 117-ELNCIT. The Committee on Group No. 16 met at twelve o'clock to day. The objects of its inquiries are the several railways protected to complete the communication between the metropolis and the southern coast between Beachy Head avid Portland. It is but a duty to the public and the other gentlemen who act as the official clerks of the House of Commons to observe, that the first instance of incivility, and a want of that obliging disposition which forms one of the greatest amenities onife, and which is cer tainly one of the greatest expeditors of business, was expe rienCed by us to-day in the deportment of the person who officiate s ns the clerk of this Committee. The public have a right to know the whole of the proceedings in the several Com mittees, and the duty of a reporter is sufficiently arduous and the responsibility sufficiently important, without being sub• THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 24, 1845. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 110 USE OF LORDS, March 23. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on th© Wool sack at Five o'clock. WEXFORD AND WATERFORD RAILWAY. The Earl of WICKLOW presented a petition in favour of this line. CORK AND WATERFORD RAILWAY. A. NABLE LonD presented several petitions in fal'Our of the York and IVaterford Railway. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. 1,4-d DENMAN presented a petition from a person named Robert Green, who is now confined in the Queen's Bench Prison for debt, praying their Lordships to amend the law for the relief of insolvent debtors, in order that persons imprisoned for debt . might regain their liberty without going through the Bankruptcy or Insolvent Courts. jected to the impediments of a jack in office, who appears to , tance between the neighbourhood of Colonel Challenor'a have a greater experience of puerile self - sufficie nc y than of ' estate and Guildford, would be increased in consequence of a sense of gentlemanly urbanity and of public duty. Hap- I going by the railway by 7 miles, and to London by 2;} mile s. pily the House of Commons is sensible of the importance About sixty prisoners were annually sent from his part of the of the opinions of the public, and the Members themselves I country to Guildford, the expense of whose transmission invariably exhibit that courtesy of which their subordi- would be reduced to one-third by the railway. nate has, in this instance, shown a most sadly deficient 1 Captain Cavendish, a magistrate and agriculturist, con knowledge, the exhibition of which to-day was for a time an firmed Colonel Challenor's evidence, particularly as to getting impediment to the obtaining of that information to which by coal and chalk from the south east, as also the transmission prescription at least the public have acquired a title. of prisoners. After some discussion on the arrangement of the business be- I The Committee then adjourned till to- morrow at twelve fore the Committee, o'clock. Mr. ALEXANDER said, - that he wished to inquire what . course the Committed intended to pursue. It was decided that the Hampton Court branch should be taken to-day, and that the Epsom braneh should be taken on Wednesday. The Committee, which comprises Sir C harles Dou g las, chairman, Mr. Lockhart, - Lord Pollington, the Hon. 0. Duncombe, and Mr. Blevtitt, having thus arranged, the Chairman called upon - Mr. HILL, who appeared on the part cf the South-Western Company, said that the object of this Company was rather with a view to the accommodation of the public than with a view to profit. It was intended to deviate from the present established line at about a mile below Ditton Marsh, and to terminate near to the bridge at Hampton. The cost would be about 40,000/., half of which was for land. It having been intimated that opposition was to be pro duced on behalf of the Western Green Chapel Trustees, Lord Hotham, and another gentleman, Mr. HILL called Mr. John Wilson Croker, who stated that he lived at Monlsey, within about a mile and a half of the proposed line, and was satisfied that it would be of great convenience both to the public in the metropolis, and at Hampton and its neighbourhood. As an illustration of the utility which this line was likely to be, he might say Oat the -first passenger line which had been este bibbed between Paris and Versailles, which places bore re spectively much the same positions as existed between Hampton and London, and in France, they had not been content with one line, but had established two; one on each bank of the Seine. Between - Hampton-court and London there were no less than twenty-two omnibuses.and coaches constantly passing, while on the main line of the railway there was not a single conveyance of that kind. Every landowner but one was in favour of the line. Mr. Sharpe, the principal landowner, though not summoned to give evidence, had requested him to state his perfect con currence in the plan of the Company. To the inquiry of Mr. H. J. HODGSON, who appeared for Lord Hotham, Mr. CROKER said that his Lordship had not signed the petition far this extension. Mr. Edward Jesse, conservator of the royal parks at Hamp ton, and author of the celebrated works on natural history, stated that he had known the neighbourhood for many years and believed this line would be highly advantageous to the public, in consequence of the great influx of visitors to the palace at Hampton-court, of whom as manyas 8,000 had been there in one day. In the winter the visitors chiefly consisted of the lower classes, who generally came there on Mondays and Tuesdays. During that season the visitors were certainly few, but there was a large influx from early in April to the end of October, to whom this railway would be a great convenience. Mr. Giffard, of the Ailmiralty, gave similar evidence, and then further stated that for himself and other gentlemen, whose duties required their constant presence in London, it would be a great convenience, inasmuch as it would very greatly reduce the time of the journey. At present it took hint twenty minutes to get to the train, and three-quarters of an hour to get from the train to his own residence at Hampton, a distance of only four mile?. The amount of traffic might be gathered from the fact, that on his journey to town three omnibuses drove up at once to the station. He felt assured that by the construc tion of this line the value of property at Hampton would be greatly increased. After a little discussion respecting the right of Mr. Evans to be heard in behalf of the trustees of the Weston-green Chapel, he was allowed to proceed, after stating that the two grounds on which the trustees opposed the line were, firstly, that the line would take their ground and chapel ; and se condly, that the congregation would be disturbed by the passage of the trains, which would be only 80 yards distant. The first ground was done away with, by the declaration of the Company that they would use their powers of devia tion, and leave the chapel the distance stated from the line. As to the second ground of objection, Mr. Giffard stated that there had been a church built lately with the appro bation of the ecclesiastical authorities, within sixty yards of the line, and that the congregation in that church To ere not disturbed by the passage of the trains. He thought there was a doubt of this, because a relative of his had a house upon the brow of the cutting through which the railway passed, and where no disturbance was experienced. On Mr. TALBOT inquiring as to the course the Committee would pursue with respect to the traffic tables which he had to put in, and which were very extensive, Mr. Evers again pressed hie objection, which Mr. Talbot proposed to meet by going to a jury for the value of the chapel, which was both small and unconsecrated. It was at last determined by the trustees, as announced by Mr. Evans, that they would not withdraw their opposition. Mr. Locke, the engineer of the Company, was then called by Mr. Ausrprovho stated that the line commenced near the 12th mile on the main line, near the Ditton station, the length of the branch being nothing less than two miles, throughout which there would be no engineering difficulty whatever—the cost eveuld be 40,000/. the smallest carve would be one of twenty chains throughout three furlongs. The line affected no ornamental or residential property what ever, and there is a good deal in the neighbourhood. There was no petition from landowners upon this point. The line was intended to be a double one, the working expenses amounting to 2,181/.; the returns, according to the traffic table, would amount to something more than 5,0001., leaving a profit of about 3,000/. a year. One public road would be crossed on a level. year. Mr. HODGSON, Mr. Locke replied that there was in tended to be a station near part of Lord Ho tham's property, the line being conducted partly on an embankment, and partly on piles. No difficulty was apprehended from the flooding of the mill stream, be longing to Lord Hotham, as, whether the station were erected solid from the ground, or on piles, it would in no way affect the stream, which could go off in no other way than by the direction which it was now intended should be given to it by the line. If any objection were raised to a fixed bridge, he was was quite prepared to give a swing bridge instead. To Mr. Evaws, Mr. Locke replied that the gradients on the line, were one of 1 in 1,560, one of 1 in 396, and one of 1 in 126; the, rest of the line would be level, and none of those gradients in any way interfered with the chapel property. The nearest point from the centre of the line, from the front of the chapel, was about 80 yards, and there would be about 57 yards from the foot of the embankment to the chapel and he thought it very possible that the passing of a train or of a carriage alengthe common road might possibly dis turb the congregation in the celebration of divine worship. The South Western Railway now passes within thirty yards of Trinity Church, in Argyle-street, Lambeth, and that of the Church of St. Mark's, the railway having been sanctioned by the Archbishop. Every provision had been made for the safety of passengers along the road, which was crossed on a level near the chapel. To Mr. Amex, Mr. Locke replied that he had given a full assurance to Lord Hotham that he would undertake that the construction of the bridge should not stop the mill one quarter of an hour sooner, or obstruct its working - one minute longer than before the making of the line, with which assu rance his Lordship had expressed himself as being perfectly satisfied. To Mr. HODGSON, Mr. Locke said that he could firmly assert that no backwater should exist after the construction of the railway. Mr. HODGSON said, that notwithstanding the proposition of Mr. Austin, in consequence of Lord Hotham not having been put into a position to oppose the Bill in the Standing Orders' Committee, he should still continue his opposition elsewhere. Mr. CRAWFORD stated that the value of the land to be taken was, 2,880/. ls. 9d., including all collateral damage. If any injury was done to the mill-stream it would be easily calculated in money, for he had made such decisions himself. After some observations by Mr. EVANS, who, on the part of the trustees of Western-green Chapel, showed the diffi culty in which that body would be placed in finding another site, Mr. Schofield was called, who stated, that he was one of the trustees—that the chapel bad been erected in 1804, that its dimensions were 46feet by 28 feet, beside the vestry and otherand that valueofthe adjoining buildin gs; that spuc retipro, p t e t r h ro3 7 was a garden attached, wetsfreehold, e found wasby ti e w rt l y lic w h el . e to be the trustees. A clause was then tendered by Mr. Hope for the Company which, he thought, ought to satisfy the trustees. On this the Committee divided, and on the re-admission of strangers the Chairman stated that the Committee had decided that the preamble had been proved, subject to the introduction of the clause tendered by Mr. Hope, which the Company expressed their readiness to include. The Committee then went through the clauses, which were agreed to, with a few unimportant amendments, and the re port was ordeied to be brought tip. REIGATE nztarzczr. Mr. bra made an application to the Committee to abridge the time for taking the consideration of this branch, upon which the Committee decided that as the private opponents of the Bill had appeared they would dispose of the uncon tested Bills, and then take the Reigate branch as the first of the competling lines. CHERTSEY ADM SOUTII-EGHAIYI. Mr. HOPE in bringing this branch before the Committee, said that this was another of those small branches the South Western Company had projected rather with a view to the accommodation of the public than to profit, like that of which the Committee had just disposed. The line was to be six miles in length, and was to run from the main line, near Weybridge to the foot of Staines -bridge. The distance would be materially shortened, and the two chief towns of Surrey, Guildford and Kingston, the two chief to wn s on which Chertsey and Egham depend, would be relieved from long and circuitous routes. The several details would be given to the Committee, so that be would not enter upon them. The Company were quite ready to accede to a desire expressed by the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, and carry the line into Staines itself. Staines had a population of between 4,000 and 5,000, placed in the centre of a rich agricultural district, which greatly required railway accommodation. One instance of this was shown in the heavy cost of the carriage of lime, a manure much required by the soil in the neighbourhood. That cost was now 1/. a ton, whereas by the formation of this line that cost would be reduced to is. Bd. a ton to Chertsey and 2s. 6,1. to Egham. The line was likely also to be very useful in opening a better access to the county towns f Guildford and Kingston during the holding of petty ses sions and the assizes. A good avenue would further be opened e, t t h h e e co tr u a n d t e r , y. bot o h ne fr o om ther th a e dv e a as n t t e a r g n e l a v r o id uid w b e e st o e n rn e which oug h t ofhot alto g eth e r to be passed over—that was the facilitya e ccess which the construction of this line would give t o the opposition was to the Isle of Wight, and Brighton. late S o l n i el only ff of Londonwas• on the part of Mr. Evans, tie: re anxious to meet but°ffere'l ,whose objections the Company by every means in their several of the witnesses were required to n n e/Tow at Kingston, he (Mr.oe to be at the Assizes would pass through the evidence as quickly the Committee Colonel Thomas Challenor, of PortlacrutlyP a a r s k theL could. Virginia Water, a considerable landoe nor, testified that the traffic by his property had so decreased, that instead of thirty-two coaches, which had been put off the road by the Great Western h er South Western Railways, there was declinedn every other day. Property had consequently in value. It now cost him 245. to get a waggon load of chalk from Guildford, and that he could only get oc casionally in the winter. The railway would reduce this expense, so that both he and his neighbours could obtain this manure, and thus would render their land twice as pro e.uctive as it was now. So far as the Court was concerned, he had to observe that Windsor was now eighteen miles from the Farnborough station, and there was no cavalry post be tween the two places, a distance far too great to send an escort of cavalry. As a magistrate, he conceived that this branch would be very advantageous in improving the com munication between the several parts of the country and the country towns—indeed, in every way the line would be beneficial. Ily a cross-examination of Mr WORDSWOP.Tif, who ap - peared on behalf of Mr. Evans, it was shown that the dis- Sub-Coi , rnitteo No. 1. PAISLEY, ZIAIIIITIEIVD, AND nuns.= LINE. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The Learned COUNSEL commented upon the opposition offered, and then proceeded to call witnesses in support of his case. Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS, who now entered the Committee room, argued th•dt he was entitled to be heard in opposition for the Ardros.san Company. They were a competing Com pany, inasmuch as they proposed to carry coals from the Penton collieries to Irvine. Sir T. Fulmars replied. He contended that his Learned Friend should not be heard as competing, fur he proposed only to accommodate the town of Irvine, whereas the parties he (Sir T. Phillips) represented intended to carry the line on to the port itself. The Committee decided that the only branch to the Per ston Collieries should be held as competing. Mr. Miller, C. E., then, after explaining the course of the present Ayrshire Railway, described the proposed branch to the port of Irvine as commencing three miles from Kilmar nock, in order to remedy the present very circuitous route. The country was peculiarly even ; there would be no tunnel ling; the steepest gradient would be 1 in 75; the smallest radius of a curve, 15 chains ' • the estimated cost 80,000/. Cross-examined by Mr. WHEATLEY, Q. C.—The Perston branch did go through some fields belonging to Mr. Guthrie, and very near one of the farm-Louses. If the line were diverted, the estimated cost of 4,000/. would be nearly doubled. The Company was most anxious to meet the wishes of Mr. Guthrie as far as possible. It was suggested by the Committee, that Mr. Miller should try to effect an arrangement with some engineer representing Mr. Guthrie. I IMr. WHEATLEY' contended, also, that the compensation should be made to Mr. Guthrie for " way leave," this branch proposing to yield a way to certain private collieries, which would come into opposition with Mr. Guthrie's. Sir T. Pfirtaars replied that no claim of the kind could be made by Mr. Guthrie. After a few words from Mr. WliEsTr.Ev The Committee decided that Mr. Guthrie was not entitled to compensation for " way leave." Mr. Robertson, Provost of Irvine, was then called to prove the benefit to Irvine from the opening of these several branches. Mr. Christie, mineral surveyor, estimated the traffic on minerals by the new lines at 5,3641. lls. Bd., and the increase on the existing one of 5,8331. 6s. Bd. Mr. Andersen calculated that the goods traffic between Kil marnock and Irvine would be 4641. 12s. 10d., and pas sengers 757/. 16s. Tho Bill was then ordered to stand over as previously ar ranged, and the Committee adjourned. Sub-Committee, No. 2. cuEznersroaD AND BURT. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) It was then alleged that on the section at a certain point one road, on the main line at the 10th mile and seven and a half furlongs which was to be lowered, was not correctly marked on the Stowmarket branch. This allegation was abandoned. It was then alleged that the alterations on the cross sec: tions were not marked in figures on the said branch. This allegation was not sustained, the Committee being of opinion that the allegation was not sufficiently specific. It was then alleged that there was no specific reference to certain cross sections on the Stowmarket branch. This allegation was sustained with respect to the road, 3 A, which was omitted on the plan deposited with the Clerk of the Peace for Suffolk, and 6 A. The next allegation was, that the plans deposited with the Clerks of the Peace for the Counties of Suffolk and Essex, were not suplicates. This allegation was substantiated with reference to the point at the road marked on one plan 17 feet 6 inches, and on the other 16 feet. Mr. WEnsTErt objected that the allegation should have stated upon which plan the respective figures were marked. The Committee overruled the objection, and found that the allegation was sustained. Some other allegations to the same effect were admitted, which terminated the case for this petition. Mr. Erxrcomix said he appeared in support of the next petition from Mr. W. Stevens. He was unwilling to occupy the time of the Committee by going into that pe tition, as it contained several allegations which had been sustained in those which had preceded. The number of allegations substantiated was so large that he advised his client not to press his petition. Aftersome discussion , _ it was agreed to take one or two dis taict allegations, which was accordingly done. These allegations stated that there were some inaccuracies as to the marking of the gradients on the plan deposited in the Private Bill-office, which were sustained. There was another'petition, whicli was not pressed, and the CHumtAx announced that in the case of this Bill the standing orders had not been complied with. The Committee then adjourned till to. morrow. Sub-Committee No. 6. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) SCOTTISH SOUTHERN'. This line is to commence at Stranear and terminate at Dunmore. The length is seventeen miles, and the estimated cost 30,0001. Engineer, Mr. Miller; Parliamentatv agents, Messrs. Deans, Dunlop, and Hope; solicitor, Mr. M'George. The Committee decided that the standing orders had not been complied with, in respect of the datum fixed point, which was not near one of the termini. In all other respects they declared the standing ortkrs to have been complied with. LES.M.A.II.IIGOViT, 8.5.7.5E27.1 1 , AND COAT BRIIIIVZ MTN MULL 3-UNCTION. The promoters of the Bill seek for powers to construct a mineral branch to the Wishaw and Coltness Railway. Length two miles; estimated cost 50,000/. ; engineer, Mr. J. Adee; Parliamentary agents and solicitor, same as in the last-named Bill. The Speaker having been announced to be at prayers during the consideration of this Bill, the Cdmmittee ad journed until to-morrow, when it will again come before them. STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEES. HOUSE OF LORDS. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) DIRECT LONDON AND PORTSMOUTH RAILWAY. This was the next line which came under the consideration of their Lordships. An objection was entered against this Bill that the names of parties who were promoters of the Bill last year, and whese connexion had ceased with the line, were still reLined to the Bill. The Committee decided that, in consequence of a resolu tion passed last year—that every Bill should come before the Committee in precisely the same state as when it was referred back last year—those names were of necessity retained, and they therefore recommended that the Bill should be allowed to proceed, on the parties undertaking to strike out the re tained names, and producing a Bill signed only by the pre sent promoters. The Committee adjourned till to-morrow. ROUSE OF COMMONS. Sub-Committee, No. 3. EXETER GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday•) The decision with regard to the former allegation was postponed till a witness was sent for, and with regard to the latter, Mr. ti ENABLES, on the part of the promoters, presented a document from Lord Bridport and Mr. Thomas Hoskins, two of the petitioners, assenting . to the line. The Committee were of opinion that they could not receive their assent as a withdrawal ; that the proper course would have been to have announced their intention to Parliament by another petition. With regard to the numerous inaccu racies in the plans, the disagreement between the plans and sections, and other engineering points, alleged as not in con formity with the standing orders, some of them were aban doned, and many of them were held to be immaterial, but still to amount to non-compliances. There were 75 allegations contained in this petition, which occupied the Committee till four o'clock, when they adjourned till to-morrow. RAILWAY SH ARE MARKETS LIVERPOOL, Mencn 23. STOCK EXCHANGE —The sales are—Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire Junction, 2 p.—Caledonian, Halves, r,4 dis.—Chester and Birkenhead, 50 ex d.—Ditto, Halves, 24% ex d.— Ditto, 201. Shares, 31 p. ex el.—Derby and Crewe, 2% p.—Edinburgh and Glasgow Halves, p. ex d.—Glasgow and Dumfries, 20s. Ws.— Glasgow, and Greenock, 18—Grand Junction, 212 ex d. and new—Great Grimsby and Sheffield Extensions, % dis.—Goole and Doncaster, p.—Huddersfield and Manchester, 26 p.—Liverpool and Bury, 12 p. —Ditto, New Shares, 1% p.—Liverpool and Leeds Direct, Bs. 6d. (113.—Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston, 2 p.—London and Bir mingham, Quarters, 241 p.—Manchestcr arid Leeds F,xtensions, p.—Manchester, Midland, and Great Grimsby, 7s. dis.—Manchcster, Matlock, and Midland, 1 1 ,4 p.-3lidland Stock, 145—North Stafford shire, 3% p.— St. Helen's and Runcorn Gap, 29—Sheffield and Man chester, 115—Shrewsbury and Herefordshire, 1% dis.— South-East ern, 3o—Ditto, No. 3, Consolidated, % p.— Ditto, New Halves, 14 p. —South Staffordshire, % dis.—Tean and Dove:Valley, % dis.—Trent Valley, 22% p.—West hiding Union, 234 p.—Mullingar and Athlone, 5% dis.—Great Western of Canada, p.—Dutch Rhenish, Ip. • MANC HESTER, iteßcu 23. _ _ _ _ _ . 8 - rocK EXCHANCIE.—The sales are—Pirkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire, 1 '% —Derby and Crewe, 2% p —Direct Northern, I Is. c.—Essex and Suffolk, 116 dls.—Grand Union, 9-16 dis. — Leeds and Thirsk, New, 116 dis.—Liverpool, Orniskirk, and Preston, 1% p.— London and Manchester (Remington's), 1% dis.— London and York, 3% p. c.—Manchester and Birmingham, 764—Ditto, Quarters (B), 7 p.—Ditto, ditto (C), tilt p.—Manchester and Ilyde, Is. p.— Man chester and Southampton, 6d. dis.—Northumberiand and Lanca shire, 3-16 dis.—North Staffordshire, 538 p.—Preston and Wyre, Halves (B), p.— Sheffield and Lincoln Junction, % p.—Shrop shire Union Railway and Canal, sA dis.—Tear and Dove Valley, % dis.—West Riding Union, 2% p.—Manchester and Leeds, Sixteenths, 9—South-Eastern and Dover, Halves, % p. LEEDS, Meacn 23. STocs EXCIIANGE. — The sales are—Manchester and Leeds Ex tensions, 2% p.—Manchester and Birmingham, New Quarters (C), 6 p. —Great Grimsby and Sheffield Extensions, 14s. dis.—Hudders field and Manchester Extensions, ss. dis.—Huddersfield and Shef field, 6 p.—Leeds and Bradford, 24 p.—Leeds and Dewsbury, 3 p.— Leeds and Th!rsk, 355. dis.—Newcastle and Berwick, IS % —North British, New Carlisle Branch, it. 19s.—Wilts, Somerset, and Wey mouth, 10s. dis.—London and York, 2s. 6d. p.—Direct Northern, 1 % —Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston, 31s. p.—West Riding Union, 3/. 19s.—Birkenhead, Chester, Mold, Etc.. 295. 6d. dis.—Chelmsford and Bury, 20s. dls.—Essex and Suffolk, 20s. dis. —Leeds and Liver pool Direct, Bs. dls.—Leeds, Wakefield, and Midland, Its. 6d. dis.— Northumberland and Lancashire Junction, 255. dls.—North Sta. fordshire, p.—North Western, 9s._ p.—Welsh Midlands, 265. dig. SHEFFIELD, Aisacn 23. STOCK EXCUANGE.—The sales are—Grimsby and Sheffield, Ex. tension, it. 120.-31ancliester and Lincoln Union and Canal, 11. 13s, 6d--Shefileld and Uncolnshire, 2 - : South Yorkshire Coal Railway, 2. HULA., MAkcn 23. STOCK EXCIIANOE.-The sales are -Blackburn, Danven, and Bol ton, 4 3 4-Great North and South Wales, 245, -Hull and Barnsley Junction, 255.-11ul1 and Selby, 100 -Liverpool and Leeds Direct, 415.-Manchester, Buxton, and Matlock, 31. 25.-North British, Car lisle Branch, 405.-South Midland, 2/. 125.-Tean and Dove Valley, 13i.-West Riding Union, 4. YORK, MARCH 23. STOCK EXCHANGt.—The sales are—Eastern Counties, York Ex tension, 14—London and York, 2/. 17s.—Manchester, Buxton, Mat lock, and Midland, 3%—Newcastle and Bernick, 18M —North Bri tish, Carlisle Extension, 21. Is.—North Western, 11. I4s.—York and North Midland, New (East and West Riding), 9%. THE WEATHER.—The papers from all parts of the country notice the recent extraordinary change in the weather from the mildness of advanced spring to the cold and snows of winter. The railway trains and the coaches in the north have been impeded by the depth of snow, and our Newcastle correspondent states that on the railway to North Shields, between which place and Newcastle the dis tance is usually performed in twenty minutes, the trains were delayed three hours. In many places the snow was two fot deep, The Bishop of Carlisle, Mr. Hutt, M.P., and Colonel Jones, hc4 interviews yesterday, with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. POOR-RATES. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Tiver ton complain'ng that the poor-rates fill heavny on the owners of real property, that other parties wore ex empted from them; and praying. that they *I uld be superseded by a national tax, and that if any deticienc) took place, it should be defrayed out of the Consolidated Fund. He could not exactly agree in the prayer t f tht petition, but he could not help stating that the proposed law of settlement did not meet with the approbation of the country, as it would preis heavily on the agricultu ral portion of the community. TI r HES. . _ Lord CAMPBELL inquired if the Lord Chancellor intended to introduce any Bill with respect to the levy ing tithes this session, as there was considerable differ ence of opinion on the subject? The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the case carat under the consideration of the Court of Queen's Bench, and they were equally divided upon it. The same case came also before the Court of Common Pleas, who wen also divided upon it. Under such circumstances, be con sidered it to be a very proper subject for legislation, and he proposed very soon to lay on the table of the House a Bill having special reference to it. LONDON AND YORK RAILWAY. _ Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Archbishop of York, agaitut the London and York Railway. The line prl)osed to pass within a quartcr of a mile of the windows of the Archiepiscipal Palace, at Bishopsthorpe, and would cut off as communication with his farm-house. Another line of railway ran within a mile of the palace, and he prayed the protection of the House against such interference. It was not for himself so much as for his successors that he made thy present stand. FEVER HOSPITALS (IRELAND) BILL. Earl ST. GERMANS moved the second reading of this Bill, and in doing so he holed their Lordships would pass the Bill with as little delay as possible, as it had been ascertained from returns that had been laid upon the table, that fever was rapidly on the increase in tha country. The Bill was then read a second and a third time, an passed. STATE OF IRELAND. Earl GREY, in rising to move that an humble ad dress be presented to her Majesty, relative to the state of Ireland, felt bound to apologise to their Lordships far thus bringing forward a subject of such extreme difficulty, and to which he felt unable to do justice. The measures which had been introduced with re ference to Ireland, were, in his judgment, of such a character as to render it imperative on the House to take the earliest opportunity, after having seen these Bills, of declaring by their assembled votes that those measures were in themselves quite in adequate to cure the social evils by which Ireland had been so long afflict d, and that they were only justified on the supposition that they were intended to give time for the application of other and more effectual remedies. —(Hear.) In bringing this subject befues them, unfor tunately, there was but little need to dwell upon the un• happy condition of Ireland. The Noble Lurd opposite had described the state of society as most awful to contemplate—as a state of society in which there was no security to life or pro perty—as a state of society in which the extrems wretchedness was most appalling, in consequence of the partial failure of the potato crop, a failure which sea likely to lead to famine and pestilence, unless counter acted by the measures introduced by her Majesty's Government. The ordinary condition of that coun try was one of wretchedness and lawlessnes. It was so described by every competent authority, and there was no intelligent foreigner who pushed his in quiries as far as Ireland but gave it this description. It was a disgrace and a reproach to any country, a standing disgrace to England, that Ireland should re main in the position in which it was. It was a greater disgrace because this state of things had been created by our on n policy. The Government of Ireland before the Union was else moat ingeniously bad that was ever contrived—it was the Govern ment of a corrupt minority sustained by the su perior power of the Parliament of this country, and it triumphed over the good legislation of those opposed to it, and left behind it fatal and irreparable evils. The Union, however, was a matter of history. Halt a century, or more than fifty years, had elapsed since that measure was carried, and for nearly fifty years Ireland had been under the control of the Imperial Parliament of England. Another generation had since grown up, and was now passing away and giving place to another ; and he asked what impression had been made on the evils of Ireland since that time ? He could not deny that many good measures had been passed, and he was the first to acknowledge and approve of them. After commenting upon the report of the Com missioners, the Noble Lord referred to the declaration of Sir James Graham, that we held military occupa tion of Ireland, and that that country could not be governed by any other means—that it was occupied by troops, but not governed like England. Should it be told him that the condition of Ireland was in such a state that it was impossible for them to alter it, he would say that that was a libel upon common sense, unless, indeed, it was not in the wish of the Legislature to alter it. Ireland was gifted by nature with great resources. She had great coasts and harbours— she had great water-courses—and, indeed, her great natural resources were not to be denied.—(ilear.) He was not cf opinion that evils of so long standing could be remedied all at once, but he was persuaded that if the consideration of them wa , undertaken with proper earnestness and singleness of purpose, and without regard to preconceived opinions, that they could in a short time give evidence of what could be done for the good of Ireland, in pro clueing a better state of things than what at present esisted, as well as a better ordered community. He repeated, that if Parliament discharged the duty which was incumbent upon it, no despair should be entertained of success, far they might depend that the blessing of Providence would attend their endea vours. But he could not forget that the perma nent employment of the Irish people depended upon private enterprise and capital being ex tensively employed in that country.—(Hear, hear.) No country could be in a wholesome state that depended upon the Government for mere artificial means of em ployment. When they looked at the present state of that country, and the amount of em ployment given to the people b y the Govern ment, they should see that it would be literally and en tirely inadequate to the purposes for which it was in tended. Ever since the union large sums of money had been provided by the Government for the completion of Irish works, but he believed, nay, he greatly feared, that much of the money which had been g ranted had been to a very large jobbed.—(Hear, which h ed. e s-g -h(tHear, hear.) Ile did hope that th e mea sures obtain the sanction of that Ho us e—h e did hope h o meas ures, would have th e e ff ec t o f p rov idi ng extentwt might more than mere temporary advantage—should they have the advantage of obtaining the sanction of the other portion of the Legislature. He believed that the provision for public works was in the highest degree useful ; but even these, useful as they might be, would never alone have the advantage of giving an impetus to private enterprise, and of eliciting that commercial spirit through which alone anything like a permanency would be given to enterprise in Ireland and the employment of capital for national improvement. For these reasons he feared they must not flatter themselves that they would succeed in their present attempts to establish good order and peace in the country, by the exercise of the ordi nary powers of the law. But the great object which they had now to obtain was to establish peace, and security, and con fidence, by the exercise of those powers, and not by the en forcing of temporary and arbitrary laws. He would now come to the special object of his motion, and in doing so he was bound to say that he did not see, in the measures which the Government proposed, anything that was likely to produce this result. There was nothing in them likely to have the happy effect of producing unanimity, without the exercise of thous strong powers which he was compelled thus to deprecate. He was compelled to say, that there was nothing which gave him the assurance that the ferment now existing in - that coun try was likely to be subdued by the measures before their Lordshipv, nor could he hope anything better from the matters under the consideration of the other branch of the Legislature. Was there anything to assure them that in Oct. 1849 they would be freed from the necessity, in order to obtain peace, from pass ing some measure equal y as despotic as that to which he had alluded ?—( Hear, hear.) He would assure their Lordship's that his conviction was quite the other way, and ho thought the great duty imposed upon them was to ascertain what measures were necessary to obtain the object which he had laid before them. Let them compare the difference between England and Ireland, when some great crime was committed. In this country, if a mur der had been committed, and the culprit had escaped, the news papers, if the culprit were known, carried his description over the breadth of the land—an hundred eager eyes were on the watch for him—all to whom suspicion could attach were taken into custody, hurried before the magistrate ; and in this way it was that the real culprit seldom escaped. But in Ireland the popu lace did not interfere to secure the murderer and bring him to justice; on the contrary, the whole body of the people were banded to screen and protect him, and to such an extent was this feeling carried, that the greatest disgrace which could attach to an Irish peasant was that he gave the slightest assist ance to the officers of the law. The character of informer, were the name attached in Ireland, was as much as a man's life was worth. What was the definition of the term informer in Ireland as compared with the same term in England ? In England informer was understood to mean a man who fer gain, or for the purpose of obtaining a penalty a4ainst another, would lay an information for some infraction of the law, frequently of the most light and venial description. That was the informer in England. But what was the meaning of the term informer in Ireland? The informer in Ireland was a man who dared to give information to the officers of the law of the commission of crime. Their Lordships were told the other night of the extreme danger of giving evidence by the son or wife of a man who had been, perhaps, unhappily murdered ' • that man wad, per haps, dragged out of bed at the midnight hour by a band of hired assassins, and in the presence of his wife and child inhu manly and basely murdered, and yet that wife or child, al though they knew the assassins by name—although they could well describe them—dared not do so, as, in Irish definition, they would be hunted down as informers. That persons, even under this strong provocation,- could not venture to give infor mation to justice was most melancholy and alarming ; and it was well known that for the protection of witnesses in former years, where a man gave evidence on behalf of the Crown, in the case of murder, as soon as the trial was over, the Crown was obliged to allow the expenses of emigrating to the man, that he might leave for the colonies. ae his life was no longer safe in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Their object must be to change this temper and disposition, and, he asked, had the Coercion Bill any tendency to de so? Were the revere previs sions that they were compelled to adopt, when endeavouring to. suppress crime, of any avail, while the people continued im bued with the spirit he was endeavouring to describe? Were these severe provisions calculaeed to reconcile the people to the exiting law, and to induce them to look upon the English as their friends. instead of as their enemies? This Bill was of a source like the dram of the drunkard, rho, in the fit of intole rable depression which succeeded Lis excesses, knew that a 1, esh excess would give him temporary relief, rind to that ex cess ha applied. The feet was, that the measure would be some redress for the moment for the commission of crime, but it had no tendency to take away the spirit which caused their greatest difficulty in the administration of the law. That such would be the result was proved by reason, and also by expe rience. Had not measures of greater severity been tried long enough (and without much regard to the degree of severity employed) without effect? He found, in a speech made lay the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, in the year 1829, in introducing to the House the measure in which he proposed the removal of the Catholic disabili ties, the histories of the measures which had been adopted in Ireland. He said that, in the year 1809, we find that the Hobe .s C0r,.114 Act was suspended, and the Act for the suppression of rebellion was in force ; in 1501 it continued in force, as also in 1802. In 1803 the in sureetion for which E.t . a:nett suffered began, and Lord Kul warden was murdered by a savage mob. In 1801 the Act con tinued, arid in 1806 the west and lentil of lielaed were in a state of insubordination, difficult to repress by the ordinary course of the law. Jo 1837, in consequence of the increase of insubordination, the Insurrectien Act was increased in power, giving to the Lord Lieutenant the power of pleping, by procla mation, any district out of the pale of ordinary law. It sus pended trial by jury, and made it a transportable tff-nce to be out at any period from sunset to sunrise. It continued in force from 1807, through 1808, 800, to the close of 1810. In the year 1814 the Information Act sti'l continued, and through the Sears 1815, 1810, and 1817. In 1822 it wag again renewed, during the years 1823 and 1826. In i&2e a esnperary Act intended for the suppression of dangerous associations, and especially the Catholic association, which was continued during 18'26,1827, and expired in 1828. In 1829 a now demand arose for tb abolition of the whole Act—but he would not continue 614 pl - 4i4ful history—only four years afterwards, it was again iaunti necessary, a shirt time alter Sir Robert Peel came into power, to introduce a similar measure of the severest kind. That measure, or at lea3t a great part of its provisions, were renewed in 1824, and it expired only four or five years ago ; and now again, in the year 1846, they were called upon to rep it, Site]; t9s the result which xperience t , howed to have been obtained by wiere coercion. Such was the eximple they had; and if their efforts were used in the proper direction, they would be able to prevent, by rigorous measures, the commission of crime. They had the prospect of restoring real seeesity to Ireland. lie contended then that they must look further than they had hitherto done ; that they must look to the root of the evil, and see whether it was not possible to change the temper of the people, to effect a reconciliation between them and their rulers.— ( Ch. ere.) To make them friend; instead of Gi , porients of the administration of the law. This was the object to which their efforts ought to be directed, and it was the object which, if the efforts to which he had referred were honestly directed, they should be able to attain. It was true the task was a most difficult one, because they had to erase from the minds of the Irish people the deep impression of long ages of mis-government—they had to convince them that their rulers had both the will and the power to serve and promote their happiness and prosperity. This was what they had to accomplish, and he should endeavour to show what, with that aid, he theeght they would he able to establish in Ireland. In the first place, he said, they must endeavour to convince the people that the law really existed for their benefit. They must amend the law both in its provisions and in its adminis tration, for both are defective, He was of opinion that the law as it is now in Ireland was quite inadequate, as it effected the poor man. It was so more especially as to the landed tenure of Ireland. This was said to be the fact by the Secretary for Ireland. That Noble Lord said, that the state of the law as to the occupation of land in that country was the root of the evil in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He (Earl Grey) believed that injustice could take place under the present state of the law, with respect to the land question in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He should like to know from her Msjesty's Ministers, vshethtr there was any truth in a statement with respect to an affair at Roscommon ; ,f the paragraph which he had read in a paper was true, it was most dreadful. There were, it was said, three or four hundred persons tusned off their land, where they had been for years; they were turned out to starve without as much as a place to lay their heads in. He trusted he was mistaken ; he sincerely trusted that the paragraph was not correct. He be lieved; that a resort to such measures was most unjust. He thought that when a lease fell out, to resort to such an extreme measure was a disgrace to humanity—it was a disgrace to civi lised life. It was well known that whatever little draining took place of land in Ireland was not paid for by the landlord, but by the tenant. He did think it hard, that when poor men, who had toiled upon the land for years, and after giving it a double value by the improvements of their capital and labour, that they should then tie turned off, if the land lord to whom they had paid their rent, had failed to pay it to his superior landlord. This evil was to be traced to the practice of cub-letting land in that country. A NOBLE LORD—That is also the practice in England. Earl GREY—That may be the law in this coun'ry, but it was well known it was never acted upon to anything like the extent that it was in Ireland. He had heard of an instance of a poor man who had taken half an acre of ground upon a plan that was called the conacre system, for which he paid 91., and from which he was to derive patatoes sufficient for the maintenance of his family.—( Cries of " Name.") This, he was informed, was a common practice in the county of Waterford. This poor man had a person over him who got into arrear to his sujericr, the head landlord. That head landlord, not having been paid his rent, seized upon this poor man's crop, placed a keeper upon him, snatched from him the means of existence, and he would not be even told for what or for how much he had been seized upon. But, in order to ascertain this fact, the poor man actually committed an assault upon the keeper, in order that the fasts of the case might come before the public. Now this was a class of cases which the law in its present state could not reach. Now, in order to remedy such a state of things, he conceived that the Govern ment did take a step which appeared to him the most im prudent and injudicious that could well have been adopted. A measure of a somewhat similar nature was introduced by Mr. Sharman Crawford; but was withdrawn, upon the understand ing that a remedy would be applied ; and in the next session the speech from the throne announced that a Commis-ion had been issued for the purpose of making► the necessary inquiry. Upon the debate which took place in February, 1844, upon a motion of Lord J. Russeelt, he ( Lord Grey) took the liberty of expressing his regret that such a Co mission should have been issued, inasmuch as it would have the effect of creating exaggerated expectations in the minds of the people of Ireland that would never be realised. The present increase of agrarian outrages was, in his opinion, traceable to it. It had given rise to impressions among those who lived upon agriculture that they were no longer to be the tenants, but the occupiers of the soil. He did not mean to charge the Government with attempting to stave off the consideration of a difficult measure by appointing this Commission. He did not mean to charge them with such a deriliction of duty, but he did charge them with an unpardonable imprudence for the manner in which they had dealt with it. He said now that not a moment should be lest in taking the question up and dealing with it as the circumstances seemed to require, not in the spirit of a technical lawyer, but in the spirit of statesmen—not to arrange the laws affecting civil property in an equivocal and partial manner, but on the broad foundation of equity. A reform conceived in such a spirit was now absotutuely necessary, and he sincerely hoped the Government would set about it. It was not the mere letter of the law, which should be im proved, nor its technical provisions, but they must also improve its administration.—( Hear, hear.) A Noble Friend of his, whom he regretted not to see in his place, had remarked that he (Lord Grey) had gone teo far in saying that there was one law for the rich and another for the poor in Ireland, but he would go still further and say, that not only was that the case, but that both were hl administered. Since 1841 a change for the worst had taken place in reference to this ; less confidence was now felt by the people of Ireland in the administration of the law than before. This was to be attributed to the hot and eager, and virulent partizanship displayed by the Government in placing the administration of justice in the hands of men who' had not the confidence of the people. That practice also, which existed from 1835 to 1341, of exciading men from juries on account of their religion, has been again to some extent revived. Any thing mere objectionable or more improper he could not well imagine. Better for them to put an end to trial by jury altogether than to countenance such a proceeding. No jury was far better than a pertizen jury. A reform in the lass, limvever, and a reform in its administration, were not the only pints which required their consideration. As long as the Parliament which enacted the laws, and the Government which enforced them, were objects of hostility and contempt, instead of respect and confidence, so long would discontent and disturbance prevail. lie knew that in express ing this opinion he was going against high authority—against those who imagined that political discontent was essentially dif ferent from agrarian outrage. All the consideration which he had given to the subject induced him to say that that was a great mistake. He considered that agrarian outrage and poli tical agitation were essentially connected. So long as the cry for the repeal of the union prevailed capital would never flow into the country, and commercial enterprise never take root. It appeared to him impossible to expect political discontent to exist without exasperating the feeling of the people against the law. The enforcement of the law should be the great object of Government, but they could never bring the people to obey it, or look upon it with respect, until they induced them to confide in it. What, he would ask, was the character of the crimes com mitted in Ireland ? Since the notice which he had given of that motion, another outrage had been committed. A magis trate had been shot. The crimes committed were not of the same character as those committed in this country. They did not proceed from a love of plunder, or from those motives which generally promote their commission in other countries. They were the work of private combinations and se cret societies. It must be evident, therefore, that if the rules laid down to guide the relationship . between man and man in that country were influenced by justice, the people would soon learn to appeal to the regular tribune's of the country to remedy their grievances, rather than to these midnight legislators. He said that the desperate fidelity with which they cleaved to this kind of legislation showed a desire on their part to cling to those for whom they expected a redress of their wrongs. Captain Rock and the repeal judges were obeyed ; and so well too, that it was considered by Noble Lords as giving evidence of the worst symptoms of the state of Ireland. Does not the fact of their being so obeyed show that, where they can be made to attach themselves, they are obedient and amenable to control ? A consideration of these circumstances led to the inference that to make the laws effective and well obeyed the attachment of the people must be gained. While the contrary is the case the laws will be power less, and a well organised state of society will never be secured. He now thought that he had made out his propo sition that political agitation and social discontent were closely connected. Noble Lords might say, in reply to that, "put down the repeal agitation, then murder and social disturbance will be also suppressed." Pefore that such a proceeding was attempted, let them recollect that that experiment has been already made, and not with a success which would encourage its repetition. Even if they were to try and put it down, they could only put down the external manifestation of it, and that, too, by means repugnant to the spirit of the British Constitution, and at variance with the feelings of Englishmen. Let them remember, also, that the tendency of such an attempt would be to alienate from their ranks a body of men (he hoped a large body) who valued constitutional liberty. While they kept aloof from the repeal agitation the spirit which pervades the followers of repeal would not be subdued. They must look to something more effectual. They could not win men's hearts by force ; they must win their affections, if they ever expected to govern them well. It might be said that it would be impossible to do this, or that nothing could turn them from repeal. No one in that House could more firmly resist repealdli al himself, but lie firmly believed that no nuiversal discontent ever yet prevailed, unless there existed some grounds for it. The sufferers may bs mistaken, but it was seldom found that a redress of real grievances did not remove all complaint. An analogous case occurred in Scotland. A discontent more hopeful than that which existed in Ireland prevailed there in 1713, on the repeal of the Union with this country. A motion was brought before that House to dissolve the Union. Did they reject it by an overwhelming majority, as the other House did the preposition of the repeal of the Union with Ireland, which he considered would not find a mover or a seconder in that House ? The result was 54 in favor of the motion, and 54 against it, and it was only by a majority of four proxies that the motion was rejected. There were ✓seventeen proxies against the motion, and fourteen in favour ot it. What was the consequence of that agitation ? Parliament set about remedying the grievances of Scotland, and she rues placed upen an equality with Enalend ii, every constitutional right and psi, g arid the consequence was that all desire for dissolving, the connection was removed, and he did not believe that there was at that ens:merit elm advocate in all Scotland for such a measure. Let them try the same system siith Ireland. Let them adopt a similar mode of procedure with regard to her grievances. Let them grant such measures as Ireland would adopt if she had a Parliament of her own. Let them adopt the- language made use of by a Learned Prelate in his speech on the Maynooth grant—" That they engaged, when they took the government of Ireland into their own hands, to rule her as if she had her own Parliament," Let him ask, had they lii-herio governed Ireland in that spirit? Would an Irish Parliament have re fused Catholic emancipation in 1827 ? Would it have given such a measure of corporation reform? Would it have acted in the same way regarding the registration of waters ; and, above all, as to the tithes and the Church, that that Parliament had done ? Would their le g islation have been the sam e ? That was the test which they should apply to their measures. He must now canto to that awful and momentous question, the state el the Irish Church. He was w ell aware that this was a subject upon which he should meet with emu little sympathy from almost arty part of this House ; hut still he should follow it up. It was admitted in the year 1844, by the Secretary of State for the Home De partment, that in every attempt to legislate for Ireland, the great difficulty which met, the Government at every turn and every step etas the Irish Church establishment; and whatever Gogernment proposed a remedy for the grievances of Ireland, they should be prepaearl to grapple with this difficulty. Now let him ask their Lordships to consider what was the real state of the case in this respect. They all knew that the property and revenues of the Protestant Church were originally granted so the Roman Catholic Churoli, ter tile; purprise of instructing the mass of the soreusurrity in that ferns of Christi in faith is, which the people would alone accept that institution —(Hear, hear.) But, by the imperial and conquering power of this country, those revenues were diverted from their original pur pose, and they were row at the disposal of a small minority In a debate in this House last yeas! ' a Noble Lord oppo s ite stated, ;h e at the prapeety of the Irish Church ameunted to the enormous sure or boo,ooo'. a year, the whole of which was applied for the benefit of 700,000 or 800,003 persona; and that such a state of things existed in a country, seven-eighths of the population of which were Roman Catholics ; and the Noble Duke opposite also stated, in the same debate, that those seven eighths of the whole populations derived no benefit what ever from this endowment. But his Noble Friend (the Noble arid Leerned Lord on the Woolstack ) had stated another fact, namely, that since the ',Lion, the Established Church in Ire land had received annually 595,000!. Now, just let the House consider these facts well. First, they had the foot that the minority of a large population, consisting of the wealthy classes, had received a magnificent endowment. The Presbyterians also, who were Dissenters as well as the Roman Ca holies, had litewise been cared for. From them the bounty of Government had not been withheld; while to the Roman Catholics of Ireland who were by far the largest in number, and to whose misery and destitution he had al ready alluded, the Government &eve no assistance whatever. The Roman Catholics build their own chapels, and provide for their own olergy, and yet these were the people for whom the Government had literully done nothing.--( Hear, hear.) Let him ask, then, was this a state of things that was likely to prove satisfactory to the people of Ireland? Let them contras' the scene presented by a Protestant church and a Roman Ca tholic chapel in any perish in the south of Ireland on a Sunday. On the one hand, they saw, perhaps, the Protestant landlord, with, it might be, one or two of his servants, occupying a cor- Ler in a comfortable building, and listening to the Seiptures explained by a well-educated and well-paid functionary. On the other hand, a vast mass of the people —a mass of that portion of the people whose labour gave its value to - property, that portion of the people from whom those magnificent grants he had just spoken off had been wrung by violence and wrong—that class of people might be seen in vast numbers, crowding the inadequate and misegable building which their scanty means e na bl e d th em to prov i de for the worship ofthe Divine Being; and those whom its limits were not capable of aescommodat'on might be seen kneeling without in hundreds upon the cold wet ground, Sunday after Sunday, throughout the whole year. Let him ask, then, did this House expect that a people so treated csuld bear such a state of things wthout feeling a deep rankling sense of gross injus tice? But this was not the worst part of the case he had to make out. If it were, and that they were content with having their property thus wrung from them, and that justice had been done them, in other respects in by-gone times, they might, perhaps, have less cause of complaint. But smelt was not the case ; for in spite of all this amount of wron arid in jury, the Prote s t an t Ch urc h s till was on l y known slid felt in Ireland as the cause of oppression and injury for the lest cen tury and a half.—( Hear, hear.) These were strong' words, he admitted, but not stronger or as stsong as the case required. because one portion of the administration of the Irish Church —he meant the tithe system —was the most atrocious and ini quitous that ever existed in any country of the vvoi Id ; and if it was imposed upon the people of this country, they would de , nource it at once as a yoke which no pool le could bear. This imposition was denounced in the years 1787 and 1788 in the Irish House of Commons, in the burning eloquence of Grattan, who only asked for such a mitigation of this system as would afford the people of Ireland some temporary relief. His re ' guest was refused, and that refusal it was that drew down from him those memorable words, which denounced this tithe system as the worst law that ever disgraced the statute book, and which called forth his indignant denunciation of the whole system of the Established Church in Ireland. His motion was opposed by the Irish bishops, and it was their determine resist ante alone that defied all his efforts, and which compelled him to exclaim, with indignation, that to the Bishops of the Esta blished Church in Ireland was mainly to be attributed the defeat of every effort for the improvement of the condition ot the people of that country. He denounced the establishment as grinding and oppressive in the last degree ; and he con cluded his memorable speech in words which few would now be bold enough to use, but which he (Lord Grey) might venture to quote, as the words of Mr. Grattan, and which were to the effect that it would appear that religion could not be supported without enormous wealth, and that Christ could not be represented upon earth unless Mammon took Him by the liand.—( Hear, bear.) Well, then, with regard to the tithe system, it was only at a very recent period that a measure was passed for the partial remedy of that law, and which was called the Tithe Composition Act, and which eventually proved to be no remedy at all. At a period still later, another Noble Lord opposite proposed another remedy, but that was not until the people had taken it into their own hands. Let him ask, was this the mode calculated to endear the Protestant Cheetah to the people of Ireland ? On the contrary, he would 'say that the whole system was calculated to impress upon the minds of the people a deep and lasting sense of hatred and enmity. to the Establishment ; and they never attempted to propose a remedy, until an agitation bad been raised demanding emancipation in terms that could not be suppressed. But all measures of justice were invariably 'refused upon the ground that the safety of the Church Establishment in Ire land would be in danger. Did the House wonder, then, after this, that a deep•rooted feeling should exist against the Esta blishment? He would ask them to judge of the feelings ot the people of Ireland by their own. Let him ask the Right Rev. Prelate the Bishop of London, what his feelings might be, if the revenues of his see were to be given for the instruc tion of the few Roman Catholics it contained ? Let him sup pose the whole case reversed, and that England was placed in the same position as Ireland. Ireland the governing country. England the governed ; he would ask how long would Eng lishmen bear with it? The answer was obvious; the same argument ap shied to Irishmen, and they should be more or less than men if they did not feel their wrongs deeply and bitterly rankling at their hearts. The Noble Lord then re ferred to a debate in the House of Commons in the year 1807, in which an Hon. Member, a friend of his, declared that unless the Government made same alterations in the system of the Established Church in Ireland, they might give up all hope of governing that country otherwise than by military force.— ( Hear, hear.) He (Lord Grey) had already supposed the case such as that of the revenues of a Protestant see, going to the support of a splendid Catholic hierarchy. Such a state of things would be a description of slavery to which no English man would submit.—( Hear, hear.) lie heard the Nobie Duke opposite declare in this House last year, that there were eight millions and a half of people in Ireland professing the Roman Catholic religion—that there they were, and the, could not help their being Roman Catholic; ; bet, as they existed, they should be provided for. He felt that he had impe feetiv expressed his feelings as to the invaluable nature of this mea• sure, and how imperfectly he had described what seemed a monstrous injustice. Considering the state of Ireland, that was undoubtedly a matter of extreme difficulty, and a man must. indeed, have most overcoming confidence if he could, without information, as an individual Member of that House, or with. out the assistance and advice of many others, contemplate the possibility even of broaching this substantive measure to the satisfaction of the country. All he would now say was, that he proposed a perfect equality of treatment of the Catholic and Protestant. What was done for one class should be done for another, and what was done for one religion should be done for another. There were various modes of arriving at that end. Some proposed that all endowment should be be taken away for the present purpose ; and that:as so ,n as the existing interests fall in, the property of the Protestant Church should be applied to secular education. He should greatly re= gret to see such a measure adopted. He had never been made to understand the advantage of the voluntary system, but he thought it of very great importance that a large public fund should be made for the maintenance of ministers of religion, with permission for them to teach the people in the form in which they had access to the instruction in the sacred truths of Christianity. An arrangement of that kind should be come to, but he should be deeply grieved that all endowments should be taken away for the purposes of secular education. The present system combined all the faults and thisadvant ges of the voluntary system. 'I hey had a voluntary sys tem as regarded the people, with all the invidiousness of a State Church. He, for one, should not be prepared to say that all the property of the Church should be applied to those uses of religion. He thought that the Catholic Church should be established in Ireland as the Protestant Church was in England, and the Presbyterian Church in Scotland. There was in favour of that principle the opinion of a man whom he reverenced more than any man now living—he meant the late Dr. Arnold. He reverenced him more than any man now in existence, and he believed that this was his view as to what should be done in this case. He had no hesitation in saying that it was deeply to be regretted that such a principle was not now in existence. It was a great pity that the Protestant Church had been made the Established Church in Ire land—it was as fatal a mistake as was ever commit ted. Another proposal, made by a Noble Lord whom ha then saw opposite, was that a toll should be levied on landed property in Ireland for the payment of the Catholic clergy. He thought that proposition a perfectly just and reason able one. Another Noble Earl, who was formerly one of her Majesty's household, asked if it was true that there were 150 parishes in Ireland .n which the rent charge amounted to no less than 58,0001., and in which there was not a single Pro testant. The answer he received confirmed the accuracy of his supposition or informant. He (Earl Grey) believed that on the other side it was not shown that the statement was sub stantially erroneous. lie had no hesitation in saying that this was a state bf things which could not endure. As the existing interests fell in, a portion of the property of the Protestant Established Church ought to he diverted to the use and payment of ministers of religion of such a kind that the Catholics would consent to receive instruction from them. He could perceive that an answer to this would be given—the objection would be that the Catholics would accept no assistance. It would be stated that the time had gone past ; that a few years ago the Catholics would have accepted their bounty, but that they would no longer receive it. As to that belief, he knew that if the assistance were given in a proper manner, and with due precaution, it would be accepted. They could no longer obtain the advantage they might have obtained. They could not attempt tO-establish, directly or indii ectly, the right of inter ference with or control over the Catholics. Formerly the Catholics would have granted such a power, hut now the op portunity was lost, and it would be the heif,tht of madness to attempt it. He believed that they would not accept of any vsistance as a direct payment to any individual clergyman, but they would take assistance if given to a fund to be applied at their own discretion. We owed this state of things to the unhappy error made by Sir Robert Peel in 1825. He still believed that the Catholics would take a grant, if it was given in a sum to be administered by some Catholic authority, to be applied by hint to-the building of chapels and houses, or in such ways as might seem necessary. He had always said that the Catholics were ready to take assistance if large and gene rous grants were made for them, excluding stipends. He had, however,,gone further into details than he intenled, and it was not the :time for trifling diseuslun. MI he would say was that there should be an equality of favour ehown to both re ligions.—(flear, hear,) They ought out only t o erelow the Cathelics, but tete; oteght to go f ur th er , th e y tweet to give them the same secal position as the Preeest ant Clesgy, Trier must allow then their proper rank, and must reverence the Catholic hierarchy even more than the Catholic Bequests Bills tsli:eh was passed last year or the year before. As a body the Catholic clergy %se re distineuisheit for their piety, and their earnest feeling for the we lf are of their flocks, and therefore they mi d st be allowed some rank. He could go so far as t o !ay that he wishei to see C a th o li c pre l ates taking their place' cm the bench in that House.—( Hear, hear.) He wished, coat' sidering tee state of Ireland, that the 110113 C could have the advice and asisistance of those who knew the Catholic popu lation, and could explain to the House their feelings and their wants. He wished that the House had the advice of those sell possessed th e means o f conciliating the Catholic people, and he did not thi n k th at any danger, would re su lt f rom their intro duction; at least it must be a timid person who could sup' pose that anything d angerous wou l d he the consequence. I s e believed that the House was net we easily led away that four Catholic erelatee co u ld o bt a i n any un d ue author i ty . }lt le Levet' that the course of policy that they were now recteel' meeding to I re l an d was opposed to their feelings. /le was prepared t.o find th a t hi s mot i on met with little support i n that House. He was prepared to see the address he was about t" move thrown o ut by a great and overwh e l m i ng ma j or ity, but many years would ne e e l apse b efore its essential features ue'l la becorce the law of th e country. As long as he had been 11l public life, he had ample reasons for saving that he had seen that any case resting on a solid foundation of truth and jusl i r e was sure in the end to get on; justice and reason were sere; prevail. He remembered nothing more discouraging in the appearance than " the Bill for Catholic Emancipation. in t e , s _ year 1e27, bat that measure had become the law of the 1 11 7 1 At the same time free trade seemed altogether impossible, an those who advocated the opinion which he wished to a.peleee the commercial regulations of the country-1 principle whieee cabinet pliilosce hers had advocated—were regarded as pe rs e er whom it was not w o rth w hil e to answer ; and when teei made the slighte s t a ll us i on t o any a l terat i on in coin, they co gi not muster more votoe than from a dozen to twat); Nineteen years had s i nce e l apse d ; h e h ad li ve d to sett the question, year by year advancing, till now it was its final time; and if it was st ill d oomed to be re fused (Hear, hear)—it was only for a short period, for they we" 0 sight of the goal. I n th e same way i t was with every re 02.40 having regard to any alteration in the policy we pursue. tower 0. helms; with regard to her church, but it might now be sod that the time was not very far distant when that church see u e , be recognised. That time was advancing rapidly; he cceilil,s he it in the tone of this debates last year ; and in the speech of f l ' e , Noble Duke opposite, in his arguments in favour of the Nalf nooth grant, he could see the evidence of the progress this measure. In the minds of those who advocated justice l a Ireland in this matter no change of opinions had, occur!! r e but he heard of frequent and substantial changes on the otne , side. He saw men, who had come to Parliament with o Pi ni e le of a different nature, were inclined to adopt this now; r ee e above all, he knew its progress in private conversation. - "`e, all knew, and could not fail to hear in private conversatieega that the state of the Irish Church was unanimously adreid i s to be such as ought never to exist in a civilised country, was deeply to be regretted that a difference was ever made; el an adjustment of that difference was earnestly to be de..rr" - to It was true that lie heard such language folloe-ed up 1 1,, ation that reform, however desirable, was rendered td, possible by the prejudices of England and Scotian which which were so strong that they would not be able carry a measure of that description. That was a question vet's; important to consid er , b u t l anguage o f t hi s sort ou ght O tos ' be adopted, nor should such principles be acted upon. A tbst of true honesty of thinki ng wou ld sate that it was right eel this question should be proposed, as it was only by beiog posed and discussed that they could hope for success. i f sees e guage of that sort were to be used, it would be unjust to ad , e icef, it to his countrymen. They had, it was true, strong prei" eat and he was very wele aware very deep-rooted prejudices; so d at the same time he knew that the language of reason o pt justice was never add resse d t o t h em i n vain, and if they had wrong in this matter it would be the fault of those whe_ip, to guide them right. If th ose w h o took art in public and to whose advice and guidance the nation was aceusle, er , to look, and who, standing in this high anti res ponsibles'i rea s tion, from want of discer nmen t o f w h at was requ i re d, or .01 want cf courage to state th e i r o pi n i ons f rom f ear o f i n eurrLe s e personal opposition by stem m i ng th e current o f pu blic or t be —if such now, from such opinions, condescend to give uel'efore position and privileges Of E ng li s h men, i t m i g h t b e long tf of they were disturb e d, but it m i g ht b e too l ate for t h e w e t ted ,the Empire to do ju s ti ce t o I re l an d, w h en t h ey thought test saw the necessity. He would fain hope for better things' ea ts in this. debate they wo u ld t a k e a l esson f rom the r t ie 1829 and 18-16 that they would not be again guilty ° or disingenuousness, and of th a t want o f f ores i ght of ceeetee events, which the result has shown mi g ht j ust ly be i l rr e the to them for their conduct in 1829, and th e y wou ld not, l? o is third time, place themselves in that most painful situat° o 4 which they were compelled to sacrifice for a great eree r g eoa ds the dearest interests of the country, or incur the just reP lid of having_ deceived their folowers, and of having been th e le;eo sons to carry the measure which formerly they had ever s ob first in resisting. He hoped he should not again see any the state of things ; he t r u s t e d th a t now i t was t i me to co ns'l l ei state of Ireland that they would acknowledge the ner es e s ore applying remedies m ore effectual to quell th e ev ils whic h Isf now inflicted upon them. Th e a dd ress w hi c h h e would be before them did not call up on th em t o express any oPini.°4 aof felt it would not b e r i g ht, as h e did not stan d i n t h e posle t eses sufficient authority to give him any right to ask 0 00 to come to so momentous a decision. At the thos them, he felt himself bound fully and fairly to express e t e e his long and unaltered opinions —opi n i ons w hi c h he of e• tertained from the first mo men t h e h a d entere d that , Although his address did not call for an expression ofe_pedies, en any particular question, if th ere were ot h e r r e let better calculated to meet the evils laid before the them be proposed and discussed; he was confident he want' most happy to hear them, and no effort of his should be Tete ing to give the most p a ti en t, f u ll, an d f a i r cons ideratio n. N e elo were called upon to expre ss , by an a dd ress t o her gate!! their conviction that Ireland could no t b e l e ft in the 3 eeies be which it was. Something most be done, and if the ro ll _ ce lcir proposed wer e wrong , ot h ers m i g h t b e a d opte d bettertroel, lated to secure th e i n t eres t o f th e empire. I.le that the great crisis was at an end—he believe" eoll there was one way, and, in his opinion , e 'rigs one way of appeasing and allayi ng th e di scon t en t of tl.'my nation, and of gradually r e st or i ng or d er an d tram:lW 01 , that disorganised portion of the em pi re . Th ere was 00 e d not and only one way, and that was not to grant repeal, Plan oss to follow the advice of the Right Rev. Prelate. The p ar t ie simple—it was to legislate for the Irish as an Irisn do se ment ; to act fairly and consistently, and they could et wrong. If they did not, they would see nothing ne u v e er tbs miserable continuance of misery and destitution. Whe " j ets accidental failure of a crop occurred, it would cause 0 3 , pr. and pestilence, only to be awarded by the interference r e is etee !lament. They would see outrages but imperfectly Pr e , 0 00, by severe and troublesome methods, until at last vir i of the some frightful catastrophe, fatal alike to the dominie n ', s aw English and the safety of the empire. This was what t h _ e y e jecle do, and he (Lord G re y) as k e d t h e i r L or d s hips t°_, themselves to do what in th em l ay t o aver t this fear woe by agreeing to the address t o h er M a j esty , w hi c h he v v ° ui 1 061 111 take leave to read to them. (The Noble Earl ectllee ate proposing the address to her M a j es ty, w hi c h i s contained othercolumn.) On the question being put, is intet The Duke of WELLINGTON rose. It was n " s pee c, : t tion to follow the Noble Earl through his very a i ble ,b e t Much of it was foueded on fact, unfortueately, and • did po t of it therefore he was unable to answer. But really 06 fee"' think that in that other part to which the Noble Earl re ...poi to —he meant the act of her Majesty's Government in re the nomination of a Com m i ss i on t o i nqu i re i n to the r ho i bee' hstween landlords and t enan t s , an d t h e measure schieb„ n itte e e i adopted in consequence of th e nom i nat i on o f that Ce' o s 0. He thought that the Noble Earl would admit that It 00; quite fair to say that hi s Ri g ht H on. F r i en d, w hen ' l v pri etl , nated this Commis s ion, a d m itt e d e ith er t h e justice er r t : t ed t of the motion un,ler c ons id era ti on a t the titre which re,f ts tld the fixity of tenure. B u t h e wou ld now con fi ne hilese' se , b s d address moved for by the Noble Earl. Similar addresmeserj, been presented frequently both in the last and at the ee tD i f eeP re merit of this session. Parliament always expressed i tl n ,eal o to co-operate with her Majesty's Government in er erY poss i b v ie which could tend to the prosperity of Ireland. It was h '• -- he could concur in the address moved by Earl ; and, considering the speech he made, more Pa r bje ete t i the latter part of it, namely, his admission that his,clost ass to felled on that address a system of measures *chi" i s od, • in the extinction of the Church of England i n ire 0 o pe ; Noble Earl had spoken throughout as if this wer e obi e :i question—as if Parliament had done nothing 00 the acio pt o —as if it were a question on which measures eould u b o f fol i o without the smallest difficulty, or without any lare aD "i o t *ter arrangements or compacts. If ever there was theesisteiro was made the object of a special compact, it wal distie et 10 of the Church of England in Ireland. That was sing out os object which two Parliaments had agreed in carrY i ere perpetual. This was one of the articles which t h ,l'i ni t h e ar timely pledged to maintain. The Noble Earl sait oh be b i r b not desire them to repeal the union, but that w,u t eve ss itt sired, he stated, was that they should adopt the au,righsed is was to lead to the putting down the Church of g og iate l i be Ireland, which was to deprive the Ch urc h of en d ier A tl Ireland of its present possessions, and which tile s ; io ble e j e tl , repeal of any treaty of union, which the r etle,, oe stated it was not his desire should b e 4 ,u s tiell t he The Irish Parliament was, as a body, cipable of l e g: e rl r e f the that subject. It was because they had lormallY a g r i - i e e union that Parliament ventured cn the considera,eoige question, under the auspices of the Government of or tiel / e' f a r and then it was agreed and stipulated that the stll united re which the Church of England in Ireland was to b r e S o fit 00 ever to the Church in this country, was to be f ° . o se d ie orl maintained. They could not place the Irish "a ° both s ore, Irish Parliament in the same situation in which th e Y , t berr . , o b at the time that compact was made, and he s a ` t ti t a t w ilist that they could not depart from that compact v vitho taile d or of the engagement then ent ere d i n t o . He mat'be reeo,l3° they had no power upon the subject, and therefore, ropose, be mended their Lord s hip s no t t o agree to t h e address i ) coul d e< them by the N o bl e E ar l. Undoubtedly, Inea si l the t oeff adopted calc u l a t e d t o b ene fit I re l an d , an d that a" t roes' iv' House of Parliament o u g ht i n every cas e to ad e P eve r th e lie and to legislate for the good of Ireland, w i l era tioe: ee l terests of that country came under their cons! 0 " parka able would say to their Lordships that in his hPi r ; l ka t the aril, had done its duty on that subject. He believe(' _ ne ver er r Lord did not deny that. He believed that there of (T eo .) country which had so advanced in improvemen ts , H e ar, D og° tions as Ireland since the period of the union.— pe oie re He would not go into details on this subject , D vcr oieg o bl e Noble Lords would speak in the course of the ver ear se, al capable than he was of doing so, but it was r eer!._ in every way, in trade, in commerce, in shipping, 3 .hinti r, t • h a r i so the customs, in the excise, and indeed in every Lord ol d I_ lv esis crease had been enormous, but the Noble Lo a "_, to lrf, 11 0 eat lier part of his speech that foreigner!, who went o r _ 0 is expatiated on the miseries which they witnessed a t:1 1 110 e ta , true there was misery and great poverty there, a co t c l l ' ._ g se other countries, but yet in Ireland there wasett.it,3 b e there were great riches ; which Out Ireland was at that momen t example to the world, an example ino o eF r of railwaYst lions at this moment in the construction imitated in few countries of Europe, she was laY tb rash , vale expense of indi viduals. ' There were, it was true , ror construction in ountriee Gee' o o f Ee -, in the course of co e s the other c of but how were they constructed ? At the Bos e; experl e e_e_ t ! op . ent ; not one of them was constructed at the c xy: w c o o vatem i n dividuals. It was in this country that n e l oly itr a,ol .l,l strutted at the expense of private individuals the the orf' country and in Ireland—in every other country ea „ T s _ re they were constructed at the expense of the • Ptr voi , the phis Now, he did not much care whether this capital i t : l it o f pert y of Irishmen, or whether it had been borr th e cre dit e d country. If it were cent there, it was sent on,_ e . d be to Irishmen ; if it were the property ofilrishinen n s," t co oot%fit it was) why it showed the vast improvement I t" . ; p a eli t s' o re which at least the Noble Lord ought to have I f lor e and those who governed that country some ered!t t "_', owe J 1 ,00, the property of England and lent to Ireland, 3 s" 1 ,0 ',et ti n ued e l Gose was some credit in 'lreland, and that me° i s teo ra , more confidence in the restoration, and eon u peace than :he Noble Lord had, He wa?s7 fore sard,_ tbe t , merit would do everything in its power to bring h to o ,as i sures which would be calculated to give sa_l aw la: be t i 7, country, a , dto insure public tranquillity. IN that there was evidence to show that the N. o b e le v,i E sh a te r . o ifr li e : tertained towards the Established Church of n o tesul little mistaken as to the very great dislike whiton remarkable c land. He thought it was a very re 0 , but it was a fact that their Lordships would 'to