The Sun. — London, England, 1823-05-13 00:00:00

.tte.t 114dr:stets of the county, to authorize the meeting. He (.oeictisi to the arrangeinent which this petition called for with ..:,;spett to Church property. He could wish some changes . ..made in the system, which would have the effect of binding the --Clergy and those under their ministry, more closely together fry 'affection and good will, but he could agree to no seizure of -..:hurcit property, as he considered the. Clergy to have' suffered as touch as any other class of persons, from the circumstances f the times. ,tlr,-.Ctift WEN spoke in favour of the Petition. Agricul ;MT had experienced some relict' from the advanced prices, but .:he was of opinion ti-at funded property ought to contribute to the support of the poor. Mr. ,RICA RDO anticipated no permanent good from the . ad vaneed7prices of agricultural produce. - He thought the whole • system Of our • corn laws ought - to be revived, to guard against -those ruinous . fin eatations in price which were now taking place. It Was said the famiholder ought to he taxed for the support of -the poor. This would have been fair if it had been stated. at -the tune of. negocituing the loans, hut it was not fair to pro •pose it now, after bargaining in the first. instance that the inte rest which the lenders were to rec,tive should be free from all :imPosts. Had a different course been taken at the first could any man believe that the Government could have raised loans .for die public service on terms like those on which they had - beer. obtained? Mr. BENETT was of opinion that the low price of corn had -caused, perhlips, as Much wheat to be consumed in eight months as Would, - under other circumstances, have sufficed for a year. But with the currency in its present state, it was visionary to expect that the - price of wheat would exceed five anti forty, or from that to fifty shillings the quarter. Mr, PHI MAPS strongly censured the mischievous tendency of. the poor laws. Mr. MONCK disapproved of a general seizure of church lands, but he thought those in the gift of the Crown, or in that of the - Lord Chancellor, might be properly sold for the public" ' benefit. For tended property, he did not wish to see it made to contribute to the support of the poor, as he was glad to see one descrip6rin of wealth exempted froM the grasp of the Poor Laws. Those laws ought to be revised, for he was convinced that the more they gave to the poor, the more they might give, under the present system. • ' 'Mr. WHITMORE had not the least wish to see corn rise hi,gh, as he was convinced that if he did so, it would only rise to fall again, and involve many in. distress and ruin. • Mr. CITRWEN explained. sir. T. LETII BRIDGE commended the Magistrates who had sanctioned the Meeting at which the present petition was voted, after the Sheriff had refused to call one. - He complain • ed oldie poor laws, which threw four-fifths of the burthen of 2niaintaning the poor em the land. This had never been origi nally intended. Ile was sure when the system was framed, • • that the Legislators of that day intended the sums necessary for' the maintenance of the poor should be levied on all pro perty.. This ought to be done now ; for it ought to be remem bered, that the landed interest, in consideration of what they contributed to the support of the poor, were not exempted from other burdens, and had, in common with their fellow-subjects, been compelled to pay ten per cent. to the Property Tax. Ile *Us surprised that no 'substantial measure had yet been brought forward to effect a complete revision of our poor laws, and, indeed„of our whole system of taxation. He ob.. jected less to the amount of the taxes, than to the manner in which they were raised, which took the poor man's money, • and frequently suffered the rich to escape without contri -bnting. • • Mr. F. PALMER-spoke in favour of the Petition, and was •: of opinion that if any of the expressions which it contained, were thought too strong, this ought to be overlooked, in consi -deration of the circumstances under which the meeting had ~ b een held. . _ . Lord PALMERSTON stated the Sheriff; in refusing the meeting, td hsve been only influenced by a sense of duty, and -had acted on his Own judgment. The lion. Baronet (Sir T. Baring) might differ from him as to whether the Sheriff had acted wisely or not, but he had acted from no improper motive. The requisition kid not been numerously signed by the lead ing men of the ceunty. The name of the Hon. Baronet was rot to it. If it had been, he doubted not the Sheriff would :halte complied with therecoisition. Sir T. BARING described the petition to have been signed by 600 per Sons all of whom held property in the county. If '-few men of title, or few Landed Proprietors had given their signatures, this did not seem to him to authorize the refusal of the Sheriff; as he was of opinion the people ought to be encou raged to petition. The peution was read, and ordered to be printed. Mr. .1 RV IS presented a petition front Alton, praying the repeal of the Duties on Coals—Ordered to be printed. SLAVER V. • • - Mr. A. CA M PllET,C;;;;;el7teaii petition front a body of lArest India Planters residing in London, against the content plated measure for the Abolition of Slavery.—Ordered to be printed. .S. ir.l. GRAHAM presented a petition from the Inhabitants , -of Carlisle, very numerously signed, praying for the Abolition .of Slavery. , Sir L COFFIN said there had been many petitions present ed in favour of the Abolition of Slavery, but none of them pro posed to give compensation to the owners of Slaves : and none of them pointed out the measure by which eight hundred thou sand persons were to be supported, who, if slavery were abo lished, would be unable to maintain themselves. Were such a measure rashly adopted, it would probably lead to a bloody struggle between the blacks and the whites like that which bad been witnes3cd in St. Domingo. He was no friend to slavery— he wished that a slave had never been seen—but looking to the evils which must follow in the train of a measure like that now proposed to be introduced, he should give it, whenever it came before the "louse, his most decided negative. Mr. CLIRAVEN was in -favour of the Abolition of Slavery, as he thought. it would prove beneficial to the Planters them selves. . . . . Mr. MANSFIELD thought it right to state that the present .petitioners declared themselves willing to bear their share of any burden which might he enforced, for the purpose of car. • .rying the Abolition of Slavery into effect. Mr. BARING was of opinion the subject ought not then to 'be debated, as its 'discussion might lead to the most serious consequences. .Some years ago, it would be remembered, an .insurrection had broken out at .Itarbadoes, on a mere rumour that Mr. Wilberforce had .emancipated them, and many lives were lost before it was put down. - Nothing could be more convenient than to have this notice Standing on their books from week - to week, as this, of all subjects, was that which .ought at once to be taken up and disposed of, as by keeping those whom it most hcarly affected in suspense, it might pos sibly. eventually excite them to attempt nothing less than u general mitsitacre.- The (.31ANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER concurred -with the Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken, in objecting to • the premature discussiou of this subject. It was, however, no • more than justice to the Hon. Gentleman who had given no. Aiee of a motion respecting it, to say that Government was to blame, if blame attached any where for the delay which had so Occurred in bringing it forward, as it had been put off for their .accommodation. The last ptistponement was on account of the Inquiry which the House had thought it right to institute. On .Thursday, the day for which it now stood, he had no doubt it would be brought MU . Mr. F. BUXTON was much obliged to the Right lion. 41entleinan for' the explanation which he had made to the flousc , and announced it to be ins intention not to give way to any other motion err Thursday. • An lion. 11 r Nalco inquired what would be the nature of ~the rmoltttioto; to he moved by the lion. Gentleman. nux.ToN begged to decline answering the question At present.—,The Petition was ordered to be printed. VASSPOWP S,'I74)pPED--.I4ETTERS OPENED. Mr. ~ secretary (A NN laid ow the table of the House -.-;certain .Papers relative to the Slave Trade. - Mr. if 0111101.iSE did not know that he could take a better -;.-oceasion n,,;; ;:lo present to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman a question, •i trutl to know from the Right [lnn. Secretary of State t; ; Affairs, if he were award that an Officer of ;the to whom be had lately granted his pass port to preceed t; ;• . ,rt'u, on arriving at Rome; could not get his passport sigmal. by the Neapolitan Minister, but Was at once told that ho would. not be allowed to go through the Nea - ,politan terrialry.—(Hear 0-11 e HobbOuse) had brought this subject forward s ;isle felt himself in some degree respon. ...slide for. the treatment to which this Gentleman had been ex. posed. The Gentleman had been inclined to travel with' the French Ambassador's passport ; but to guard against any accident. he (Mr. Hobhouse) advised that he should obtain the ?assport of the. Right Hon. Gentleman, as he knew that that of the Bri ish Minister had hitherto been trea:ted with the greate/-1 ruspect. The House would easily conceive how the Geotleman had bear surprised to find 'himself thus detained at Roma, and actually unable to proceed. The Gentleman begged to Iznow the reasons which existed fbr refusing him the expected permission. The Neapolitan Minister declined giv ing bill: any, but scrupled not to say he must prosecute his jourocy by some otivr route. The Gentleman was now at Ancona, from which plaCe he proposed to embark for the island •of Corfu. The . whose case he had thus brought forward was Captain lilaquiere of the British Navy. While on big if it were not taking too much a liberty with the Night ifonour.tble Secretary, he would beg to ask him an. .other ouestioa.. Was he aware that since the invasion of the Peaiositla by • the French, time commercial intercourse with this country had been soriously interrupted? A rner , .. l eanti!o house last week, fond that its correspondent's let. t -tee 11x1 opened, and instead of the papers which were I exp..to - the clailiat-ion of the Trappist and that of the 1 I ,re • 'Duke lad been enclosed and forwarded, but not .one word of the intended coinimmiCation had been received.— Treatment like this was, perfectly new from one of the parties engaged in a war to a neutral Power. Whatever the differences between France and Spain, it became the duty of the British Government to take care that our commerce should not be thus interrupted, and so great an insult as this ought not to pass unnoticed. When he stated that the Firm, to which the papers in question had been addressed, was that of Messrs. Bowrin ,, , the House would feel perhaps, that it was probable the French dificer, who had examined the letter, in consequence of what had lately occurred with regard to Mr. Bowring, thought it would be an exceedingly good joke to detain any thing on its way to a person of that name, and to send in its place the pro clamations which he had mentioned. The case,. however, ap peared to him one of serious importance, and he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would be of the same opinion._ Mr. Secretary CA N N ING said, with respect to the first ques tion, he had certainly received information of the facts from Mr. fils9uire himself, who had written to him on the subject, - of the Neapolitan Minister refusing to sign his passport at Rome. lie (Mr. Canning) was utterly at a loss to conceive on what grounds such refusal had been given, and he had im mediately done all that he could do at present, by writing on the same day to our Minister at Naples, instructing him to ask the cause of that of which Mr. Blaquire bad complained...- With respect to the second question, it was quite new to him. In general since the commencement of the war in the Penin. sula, be had been surprised at the little interruption which commerce had experienced, seeing there was not only a French army out, hitt a Spanish army also, besides Guerillas, and robbers of all sorts assuming that name. The Hon. Gentleman said, the house which lie had mentioned had received two proclamations under cover. In sending these there was no great harm. But the Hon. Gentleman stated them to have been substituted for something else which was expected He did not understand how this had been ascertained. If the H on. Gentle Man, or any body else, would satisfy him that this was known, he should deem it his duty to make inquiry into the circumstances of the case. Mr. HOBHOUSE said another communication had been expected, and the proclamations being received under a cover, addressed to the parties in the hand-writing of their comma. cud agent,, the Messrs. Bowring could have no doubt that these had - been substituted' for something else. Mr. Secretary CANNING remarked, that it had not been stated before by the Hon. Gentleman that the Messrs. Bowring had received the proclamations in an envelape, addressed to them in the hand-writing of their commercial agent. This made a material difference, as from that circumstance it would ap pear that their letters had been detained. Were this not the fact, there would have been little ground for complaint on the subject of the proclamations being sent, as in that case the proclamations would have been all clear gain. The Papers were ordered to lie on the table. Lord G.SO3IERSET presented a Petition from the Bankers, Merchants, and others,' in the town of .Monmouth, against the Insolvent Debtors' Acts.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. R. MARTIN presented a Petition from certain Inha: bitants of the County of QalWay,, praying for the imposition of a duty on Foreign Barilla.—Ordered to be printed. COMM ERCIA lEVANCE. Mr. J. SMITH had a petition to present of considerable im portance from a very respectable body of men, signed by a Teat number of merchants and bankers of the city of London. hey complained-that at present, on making a consignment of money or goods, the merchant had no adequate protection, but was exposed to certain risks, by enactments not at all analo gous to those of the common law. Mr. Alderman BRIDGES supported the petition. Mr. SCARLET' regarded any thing suggested by so re spectable a body as entitled to serious consideration, but he was inclined to think the petitioners had not taken the most correci view of the subject. He proCeeded to explain the ob ject of our law (which he understood to have been borrowed from the general law of the Continent), which had been framed with a view to protect the principal against any fraudulent at tempt on the part of the agent to appropriate the property of his employer to pay his own debts. Mr. BARING contended that it long been a desideratum to have this law altered. What the merchants wanted was, to let persons know into whose hands they entrusted their goods beforehand, and then to leave the factor with the power of selling, so that there might be a free circulation. The object was not to look at cases of possible fraud, but to acquire a free circulation of trade. If frauds occurred they would fall upon the merchants, and not the lawyers. . Mr. HUSKISSON said he agreed with the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, that the question was one chiefly af fecting the commercial interests. He held in his hand a simi lar petition, which he should have to bring up that evening*, coming from all the bodies concerned in commercial pursuits in the town he had the honour to represent. He should not pre sume to otFer an opinion opposed to that of his Hon. and Learned Friend, but why should they not send the question before a Committee up stairs, to inquire how tar the law of Europe agreed with that of Englan d upon the subject, and to arrange the difThrence if any existed. Mr. SCARLET'!' explained. Mr. RICARDO should understand the argument of his Hon. and Learned Friend, if he could point out to them the means of knowing a factor from a merchant. There must ne cessarily be a loss somewhere, and it ought to tall upon the man who neglected to use proper caution. After a few words in reply from Mr. .T. Slum', and an in audible observation from Mr. J. MARTIN, the Petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. J. SMITH gave notice that he should to-morrow move for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the subject. Mr. CAWTHORN presented a Petition froM Lancaster against any equalization of the Sugar Duties.—Ordered to be printed. FOREIGN TALLOW. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a Petition from the-But chers of Leadenhall, complaining of the glut of Foreign Tal low in the market. He wished to ask the Right lion. Chan.. cellor of the Exchequer, or the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade, whether it was their intention to add to the import duty on Foreign Tallow. Air. IIUSKISSON said he was sorry his Right Honourable Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not in the House, for as the question was clearly one of finance, he could not answer it. Mr. HUME said, he hoped that instead of increasing the tax, Ministers would take it off altogether. Mr. MONCK said, he hoped that no exclusive protection would be granted to the agricultural interest. Taxes ought nut to be levied on the people for the purpnse of keeping up prices, in order to enable landlords to sustain their enormous rents. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE explained. Lord MILTON expressed his surprise that the honourable Baronet should not see the obvious fact. that any new tax upon the importation of this article must fall upon the people, and lessen their means of purchasing it. Mr. RICARDO made a few observations on the same side. The Petition was then ordered to be printed. • -- Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a 'Petition from Kingston, in Somersetshire, against the General Turnpike Act.—Refer_ red to the Committee. Mr. HUSK ISSON presented a Petition from the Merchants, Bankers, Traders, and Factors, of the Town of Liverpool, praying for an alteration in the law of Principal and Factor, similar to that presented from the City of London.—Ordered to be printed. BEER BILL. Mr. DENISON rose to present a Petition front certain Brewers of Small Beer and Ale against one of the provisions of the Bill now before the HOLM. By the present laW they were allowed to brew an intermediate beer, which.by the new Bill they would be prevented from doing without erecting new brew-houses, at a distance of at least 200 vards from thole oc cupied by thei brewing of other beers. These -gentlemen had embarked a large capital in their trade, and he would ask. i any Hon. Member if it were fair to do them such an injury, and only for the sake of an experiment, as the flight lion. Gentle man himself admitted his measure to be ? But it was said the object of separate breweries was to prevent the mixture of beer; 1 and that was very proper. But to chew the good intentions of these gentlemen, they said that they only wished the measure to be put off for one year, in order that they might lay their. case before a tlommitt ee , an d if t h e y c ould not satisfy it, that no mixing of the beer would take place, • they would then sitb mit to any fines, or even the penalty of transportation upon detection. But the w a y t o avoid all these difficulties would be, to take off the duties on beer altogether, and place them on the malt. By that means they would remove the inustice of mak ing the poor man pay a tax of baween two unit three pounds, where the rich man paid only ore. 31r. RICARDO condemned the provisions which compelled the new kind of Beer, to-be brewed in separate brew-houses,— The expaices of the new ones must all be paid by the people, and by such measures as these, the people payed taxes far be, yond the amount received by - the Treasury. - He would ask his Hon. Friend the question, as to where could arise the harm of laying all the tax on Malt, and leaving the Brewers to make the Beer of what quality they liked, Mr. 3IABERIN • said, that no petitioners ever came into the House with a stronger case, yet he feared the Bill would be read a third time without any relief being granted to them. Such an experiment was useless mud unnecessary, because a comprehensive investigation of the system of the Revenue laws must convince the Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exche. quer that the Beer Duties ought to be removed altogether, and pLeed. upon Malt. Mr. Alderman C. SMITH, spike in favour of the duties being; placed tm Malt. 31r. G. BENNET said, that the measure carried upon the face of it the marks of injustice. It was absurd and improper that the price of an article.should be fixed, whatever might be the variations in the prices of materials from which it was made. The interest of the poor man ought to be considered, and if any difference were made it ought to be in his favour. At all events he ought to possess at least e qu al a dv a nt ages w ith the ridh man. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that in the Committee on the Bill, every one of the - arguments which he had now heard, were advanced, and he at that time an 'swered the objections as well as he could. Other stages still remained, at which full discussion might be had, and when the House might also come to a decision. But he did not Conceive. that he could be expected to enter into the whole question of the measure upon the presentation -of a Petition. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, had applied harsh terms to his measure, and such as he conceived were unjustly Applied. Whatever might be its defects, it was certainly intended to be a modification of some of the evils of the existing system. — He must say that it was disheartening to any wishes for gra dually removing those evils, to find such opposition made to a partial attempt of this nature. The measure, he was con vinced was one of improvement; but if the House did not choose to pass it, the law must remain as it was. Mr. HUME contended, that the Right Hon. Gentleman was acting against his own principles in doing violence to so large a capital as that, which would be injured and destroyed by the Bill. Mr. RIDLEY COLBORNE thought the fair way of look ing at this measure was in comparison with the law as it now stood. At present the poor could only get a beverage so strong that they could not purchase it, or so weak that they could not digest it. The object of this Bill was to supply beer of mo derate strength, and at a moderate price. He thought the thanks of the House were due to his Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for the manner in which he had taken up the subject. Mr. F. PALMER contended, that as the duty being placed uppn malt would 'enable every man to brew his beer, or to purchase it upon equal terms, there was no ground whatever for refusing to make the alteration. Mr. MONCK took the same view of the question.`" Mr. MABERLY asked whether the Right. Hon. Chancel lor of the Exchequer would allow a committee to be appointed if he should move it, to take into consideration the propriety of placing the duty on Malt instead of Beer. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not prepared to answer in the affirmative. Mr. MABERIX then gave notice that he should, upon an early occasion, move for the appointment of a Committee. Mr. BROUGHAM had to thank his Hon. Friend for the notice he had given, and to regret that the Right Hon. Gentle_ man had not consented to an inquiry. Every discussion of this iniquitous tax would he useful, because it would open the eyes of the country to the enormous. injustice of making the poor man pay a duty of fifty shillings where the rich man paid only twenty shillings. He was confident that.so cryingly iniquitous a tax could not long be supported by any House of Commons. After u few words from Mr. DENtsow and the CirAwcEL- Lon of the EXCHEQUER, the Petition was ordered to be printed. SILK MANIM %TORIES. Mr. F. BUXTON said, he had been requested to mit a ques. tion to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Iluskisson) which was of the greatest interest to a large class of pcbple.. He wished to know if the Right Hon. Gentleman would con. sent that the bill he was about to bring into the House that night should go to a Committee. If he was not so fortunate as to succeed in this request, he trusted that at least time would be given, before the passing of the Bill, for the interest of the parties affected by it to have due consideration: Mr. lIUSKISSON should not object to the request if he could. see any advantage that could possibly be derived from sending the bill before a ComMittee. The question had al ready been before several Committee's, and he had been in long communication with the parties, so that they had sail dent time to state any grounds of objection to the measure. lle consbfered it to be a question of principle, and without some such measure the eventual destruction of our silk manufactories would be certain. With regard to the other question, he could only say that without hurrying the Bill, it was most desirable not to keep alive the irritation which arose from doubt and uncertainty for any longer period than could be justly avoided. If a Committee of the House came to are solution that night, that the present Act should be repealed, it was his intention to bring in the Bill to-morrow, and to move its second reading on Friday, leaving the other stages to be fixed after the holidays. A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships had assented to several Bills. IRISH INQUIRY. Mr. BROUGHAM rose to move tar returns of the Crown Books for Ireland, from the year 1808 to 1822. After a conversation across the table, the..,motion was with drawn till tomorrow. Some observations passed between Mr. II umr. and Colonel lLtuttY, in which the latter declared that he was desirous and ready to go on with the investigation on Wednesday. USUIt I LAWS. At the request of Mr. Go UT.BUR:d Mr. Sergeant OwsLow postponed the second reading of the. Utiory Laws Amendment Bill to this day_forp2iot. IRISH 'INSURRECTION ACT. Mr. GOULBURN said, that when upon a former occasion he submitted to the House the propriety of extending in Ire. land the provisions of the Insurrection Act, he ventured to express a hope that he should not again be called on to perform that duty. With the greatest regrethe found that hope to have been fallacious, and that now the painful task was imposed on him of recommending to the House to continue those provisions, not for the purpose of preventing the recurrence of outrage, but of resisting an alarming, and in the opinion of some a formi. dable insurrection against the laws of the country. He was sorry also, to have to inform the House, that in particular dis tricts—or rather he should say, it was confined to one particu lar province—that there was the same general disposition to outrage, the same general combination of the peasantry against the property of the country, the same system of illegal oaths and resistance of the laws by the substitution of others, aupported by acts of terrible crime, as was manifested upon former occasions of a similar nature. It was impossible for him to undertake the defence of the law he was about to re commend in the abstract; he did not stand there to represent it as a law contbnnable to the Constitution. But he was convinced, they would not withhold from the Marquis Wellesley that which he firmly believed, and that which the Noble Marquis himself had %hewn by the documents on the table, to be necessary for governing the country under its unfortunate and peculiar circumstances. It was impossible for any man to look at the daily records of what passed, and not be convinced that there was something in the state of the province of Munster, which required extraordinary powers to correct its disorganization. It was not only that there was a diviSion betwixt the poor and the rich,—but that the power of the multitude was exercised in obstructing the ordinary course of the law. Criminals were protected from justice by the whole population. If infbrmation were obtained against any of them, he need not tell the House that when the attempt was mace to bring them to trial, the evidence either disappeared, or under the influence of terror witnesses refused to come for ward. At the late Assizes at Cork the number ofthose discharged from the inability to bring the witnesses before the Grand Jury, was almost equal to the number charged with crimes. In fact, the present state of the country . was that of protection to the wicked and criminal, and oppression to those who observed the law —to all that was loyal, good, and honourable. The first oh ject, therefore, watt to give protection to that class, and to leave for subsequent periods the other measures of improve ment and amelioration. In other parts of the country the Act had produced the greatest benefit, by tranquilizing the gene ral state of society. The house would recollect that in the county of Limerick, only eighteen months ago, these out rages were perpetrated,. with the addition of a system of assassination with which lit was happy to say the present disturbances in the county of Cory were not contaminated.— t U r i a h n e g application of th e Insurrection Act had already restored great portion of the county of Clare. The same might be observed of the county of Tipperary, which had been among the most disturbed of all the counties. Ile stated these circumstances to show that the law now proposed, if en forced with propriety, might eventually lead to the restoratian of tranquillity. He had not, the House would observe, consi dered it necessary to enter into the extended question as to the causes of the disturbance, for which this law was to provide.— That was a question which created the g reatest difference of opinion among all w h o were connected with, or took an in terest in, the affairs of 'lreland. lie considered it sufficient to shew that there was an emergency which required to be met by powers beyond the reach of the ordinary constitutional laws. To those who were anxious for an inquiry into the cause of these disturbances, he would say, " Let the disturb ances be first repulsed, and then let the cause of them be examined." Under the present circumstances, and while the disturbances themselves existed, he thought it would be im possible tin the most enlightened and scrutinizing mind to as certain exactly what was that cause. Ile therefore begged to move,—" That leave be given to bring in a Bill to continue the said Act for a time to be _ Lord ALTHORP Said, that the House was called upon, year after year, to pass mtiastws of coercion, but still fresh complaints were made of the continuance of the disturbances which those measures were intended to put down. lie thought the House ought to consider of 'measures of conciliation ; and, although he did not intend to enter into a discuision of the ; of Ireland, he holy l_the House would give some pledge to institute. an inquiry into this subject. Ireland, at present, was Of no use to this country. Indeed, it was governed by a compromised Administration which" rendered unanimity out of the question. He had no objection to give additional powers to the Government, provided they would give such a pledge as he had mentioned. He should, therefore move, as an Amend ment, " that it is the opinion of this House, that the measures of coercionso frequently adopted since the Union with Ireland, have not been effectual to imp 1' J the condition of the people, or to secure the tranquility of , the country ; and that it is ne cessary to take into consideration the state of the Administra tion of the Laws of' Ireland, with a view .1 secure the perma nent peace of the country; and an equal security of rights." -Mr. JOHN SMITH seconded the Amendment, it waS im , possible to suppose that the cause • of the disturbances could not be ascertained. Scotland had suffered in the year 1817 from faMine, and, yet no disturbance had taken place There.— He understood a-plan had been adopted by several Gentlemen of influence in Ireland, for the purpose of commencing a ma nufacture of coarse cloth, which would ensure employment to a number of the labouring classes. He considered that moral and religious instruction would have a very beneficial effect.— Riot and disorder were connected with ignorance, ainl. peace and regularity with instruction. He knew an associMion had been formed of several respectable Ladies for the purpose of giving instruction, unconnected with religion, to the poorer women of Ireland. He should really like to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman, 'whether he thought the measure now pro posed would restore tranquillity to Ireland in three or four years ? He cordially supported the amendment, because he thought this would not be the case. Mr. ROBERTSON spoke at some length, in favour of the Amendment. He thought many of the evils of Ireland were to be attributed to the persecution which was exercised against the Catholic Priests, and he was satisfied that tranquillity would never be censured until religious distinctions were abolished. The Hon. Gentleman here took an historical review of the pro gress of religious toleration in different parts of Europe, for the 'purpose of shewing the benefit of toleration, and the mischief of a want of it. He feared there was too great a similarity be tween our Government over Ireland, and, that of Turkey over Greece ; and he believed it would be 'difficult to say what might be the consequence of an invasion of Ireland by a fo reign foe. He thought this measure would do more harm than good. Sir N. COLTHURST agreed in much which bad fallen from the Hon. Member (Mr. J. Smith). He would be happy to concur with that Hon. Member in acting hereafter upon some of his suggestions; but he conceived the: the present was not a fit time for discussing them‘ The question now was, whether disturbances amounting almost to rebellion should or should not be put down. He considered that the situation of Ireland fully called for and justified the motion of his Right Hon. Friend. Notwithstanding,the many burnings which had taken place in different parts of the country, it was most diffi cult to obtain the punishment of the offenders in the ordinary course of law ; and, in the cases wherinanercy had been shewn by the Government, that mercy had been attributed by the ob jects of it to motives of fear. He thought the Insurrection Act was absolutely necessary to retain a chance of preserving the lives and property of' the peaceable part of the community of Ireland. Lord A. HAMILTON supported the Amendment. For several years he had heard the same complaints as were now made, and they were always purposed to be. met by measures of severity. He had heard the .Attorney-General for Ireland, on a former occasion, condemn this very Bill as a total sub. version of the Constitution. Indeed, he saw few of the Right Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite benches who had not, at some time or other, opposed the present Bill. He (Lord A.) not only abhorred the measure InMself, but could not conceal his regret that English Members could view it so lightly as they did. The measure itself had been tried 'over and over again, ineffectually, and he should therefore oppose it. Mr. PLUNKETT said, he should not have offered hithself to the notice of the House, had it not been for the pointed allu sion which had been made to him by the Noble Lord. He was sure the Noble Lord had no intention to misrepresent him; but he was certain the Noble Lord had forgotten the course of his (Mr. P.'s) conduct with regaid to the affitirs of Ireland, or he would never accuse him (Mr. I'.) of inconsistency in sup porting the present motion. He had supported it last year ; and in IMO, during the administration of the Duke of Bedford in Ireland, he had himself prepared the Bill, and would have had to introduce it to the'House, had not that administration been. changed. He thought the Bill necessary at that time, but the circumstances then were not a hundred' part so strong: to ustify the measure as they were now. - Lord A. II A MILTON here said that he bad referred to the the dot cu Expressed, oypfer neverae rs ee lBl6. ldas,naadi 3 s:t ec h ' f or n o e n l . e y dd l s i— i c it t e t h t i ne s: as he it was not t gret se co u n , s h is o te a n ct e e e d i t l l i t i e n, ge a n s er w a e l ll la n ws ior ha c ißn l ni i sle : air : ll l Bj. 9fosio.intt unconstitutional 13.ttaNu l lt l ti t elii o t1(111.tel:Illin'.11neallenarane' called le did forno ure He dis the idea of this being considered as a permanent measure. It was intended to meet a temporary difficulty, and he thought it was the hest which could be devised. If the Noble Lord would tipropose what he might consid er as a b ett e r , he (Mr. P.)should e happy to hear it. He could not of course pledge himself to support a measure merely because it would be a subtitute for this. An lion. Member had suggested the adoption of Martial Law, but he (Mr. P.) did not approve of this. The pre sent difficulty, and which was felt, even under the present Bill, was the .want of evidence, as, those who were to prose cute were generally deterred from so doing in consequence of the terror which had been, raised in the disturbed districts. This, however, was a difficulty which would not be removed by the adoption of martini law; for he presumed no one in. tended to propose the infliction of punishment without evidence. He had heard the sentiments of the Hon. Member for Mid hurst (Mr. J. Smith), respecting Ireland, with great pleasure, and he was sure every friend of Ireland - must thank that Hon. ,llember for the expression of them. The Noble Lord had ac cusedhim of inconsistency with respect to thetatholie question. If ever there was a man in that House who in good, weather and bad had clung to that question, it was himself. The Noble Lord said it was impossible to give credit to him anti others for sincerity upon that subject. Notwithstanding the Noble Lord refused him credit for sincerity, he was not doubted by those whose cause he advocated. Ile was happy in receiv ing satisfactory assurances from the Catholic 'body. Since the period when their affairs took an unfavourable turne he receivedhad the thanks of the Catholics. It had been said, that his former sentiments in favour of Catholic Claims, made hint unfit to occupy the situation •he did in dint House. He wa s ready to admit, that in 1813 he expressed his stronglopinion on the mischief which might ensue from a Cabinet divided on that subject. Ile said on that occasion, that the Catholic Emanci pation was a fine qua non in providing for the interests of Ire land. He expressed in strong language his opinion on the dis. astrone consequences likely to flow from a divided Cabinet on that subject ; but lie never believed that expression of his opinion excluded him from the favour of his tiovereign. lle acted cordially upon the question with a Noble Lord, now no more. Under the feeling and opinion of that Noble Lord, the Catholic Question gradually made its way in that House, until it was ready to pass. His opinion always had been, that the Cabinet should not be divided on that par ticular question ; and when his Majesty recommended con ciliation in Ireland, lie certainly thought be was not lower.: ing the' cause of the Roman Catholics in becoming a Mem ber of that Government. He joined the Government thinking he could act with them, and not because any change had taken place in his opinionit. With respect to the Nfotion of the Noble Lord, lie could not sup fort general inquiry at this time into the state of Ireland. The country was not in a state to justify temporizing measures. The Bill under discussion was efficient, and would put down insurtectionee_ It was his hope, that the Bill might have passed through the House with unanimity in order that the wretches in Ire land might know there was no sort of encouragement held out to them in Parliament. He was not aware of any specific proposition in the contemplation of any individual. The mea sures of the Hon. Member for Midhurst should have his sin, cere support. •It had been said he was inconsistent in giving his support to the Bill, after the observations he had made in that house on the inviolability of church property. In voting for the Bill of his Right Honourable Friend he did not act in consistent. - Ile considered the roperty of the church sacred. The proposition of his Right llonourahle Friend was calcu lated to remove unpleasant feeling between the Clergyman and his parishioners. The Bill, on the gretind of public conve nience, made a change in the property, but a compensa tion was given. He did - not think that the charge of lenity in the administration of the Insuirection Act was adverse ro the 00. remittent of Ireland. The fact was, the Learned Gentleman, r. Serjeant Loyd, to whom the administration of the Act was intrusted, had acted with the greatest honour and humanity.— . Under the Insurrection Act, person in a disturbed district was absent from his house at night, he was liable to be taken up. A man was taken up at night who had no house, and it was held that lie was not subject to imprisonment. In another case, a man left his house to avoid an arrest for murder. No man was bound .to remain to be arrested for murder, and that case was also considered one which did not warrant trial' and imprisonment. Sir N. COLT/lIIIIST and Lord A. HAMILTON explained. Sir J. NEWPORT was anxious to state to the House the ground on which he wished to support his Noble Friend's mo tion. He was not desirous to take from . his Majesty's Minister; the: means ofgoveinment, but he opposed the long and conti nued series at coercive measures. He had moved in vain for Committees to inquire into the real state of Ireland. Whether war or peace, no inquiry took - place. In war the cry was, " This is not the time for inquiry ;'• and in peace it was said, " Why do you interrupt tranquillity ?" By inquiry the system of Ireland was to be tried. No - single measure would be effixtual; even Catholic Emancipation - would not restore tranquillity, but it would be the basis of much good. The Honourable Baronet advocated Parliamentary Inquiry into the state of Ireland during tha last twenty years - , No man could charge him with insincerity. From the earliest 1 1 ' hour of life his effort was_ to ameliorate the condition of his country, and it would be his wish whilst he had life. He could not take part in any measuse where the great question of int. quiry was not made a sine qua non. Lord ENNISMORE said the Catholic question had nothing thingiltnt gliaodn%..ersFrie advantageouset d th t l e l e anylels i.serryti rig ht to do with the insurrection in Ireland. Knowing how anxiou s e iitrts that Secretaryo of country,G o o l f , e r l n re m l h a e n en d t ja,,,ab s was ust o t dr o ur a yt t y t et too n d sha t r o s • constituents compelled him to say the Insurrection Act had not been administered with sufficient severity- Many it was proved threw themselves in the way of transportation, in order to get out of the country. In a speech made by Sergeant Torrens, that learned person said those who endeavoured to get trans- ported under the Act would find, instead of transportation, punishment of whipping. The Honourable Member described in strong terms the painful and dangerous situation of persons residing in Ireland. A man with his family could not sit , down to dinner without fire-anus. Such a state of things might be endured for a short time; but in the present con dition of Ireland there was no hope of peace. The human mind could not bear a state of constant misery, and the conse quence would be, that the respectable oppreesed part of the population would leave the country never to return. The In surrection might to be renewed. The people of Ireland were more disposed to, rebellion than at any former period. It would be necessary to strike terror into the lower class of the people. The object was the destruction of the Protestant po pulation. The Magistrates ought to have the power of em ploying martial law in every disturbed district. Lord MILTON thought the House ought to look cautiously at the speech of the Noble Lord. The Government of Ireland appeared to rely on coercion as the grand panacea. The evils of Ireland arose from the ignorance of the eople. In the North of Ireland the people were tranquil. Education made all the difference. In the South the interior classes were in a state of barbarism, and until the people could be instructed, much might he done to restore tranquillity. The way to rule Ireland was by love, not fear. Mr. Secretary PEEL seated the propositions of his Right Hon. Friend, and the object of the amendment of the Noble Lord. In addition to those propositions, his Noble Friend the Mem. bar for Cork, had recommended the application of martial law. The speech of his Noble Friend might contain strong sentiments ; but no man did the duties imposed on him with more honour and humanity. Be was not desirous of alter ing the Act under the fear that it might become a permanent law. He wished to consider it a strong but temporary mea sure. He should never think it right to place Martial Law at the disposal of Abe Magistrates, until all obedience to civil law was lost. No Gentleman had opposed the expediency of the measure, with the exception of one Honourable Nevi her. If that Honourable Member had found his property e x menaced by the nightly incendiary, and his posed to the assassin, he would not have doubts( the inght r which every loyal subject had to call on the Gotenunent 1 for protection. It had been said for twenty years, ineasurs of coercion had been used and nothing else. He s hould ay aside the Catholic Question, and ask whether there Ma been e- Ir any disinclination to attend to measures for the benefit of Ire land. The Right Hoe. Secretary enumerated the various mess suns passed to relieve Ireland from the rest incomiere and under which she was placed. The regulation of herlaw Police were questions of the first magnitude. Three v e let a 0 ! had not escaped the attention of the House. The reYo a t° n , t ' . ! the Magistracy, and the establishment of Education lu t tote been neglected. When he was in Ireland his object was to pro ta n_ t . i. education without any limitation on account of religious a faith. ' Those who considered the Catholic Question a sine n ' lie select ' !. were perhaps influenced by a too strong feeling on t State,.e Whilst the Protestant feligron was the religion of t he .awen t!, could not believe the concession of the Catholic Quesuoof "" intro- lead to tranquillity in Ireland. He was not desirous ta . se. clueing any asperity, but never could consider the es a.t n , l , l o l, _ meat of the Roman Catholic religion at all likely to I , d . _ f o e anxious to g'" ' tranquillity amongst Protestants. He was anio. 1 adin i- Ireland the benefit of a scrupulous and en impart p rivileges tion of justice; he would give the Catholics all the to not consent to which they are entitled by law ; but he could , e not come place more political power ut the hands of whothose . _ which . feel the same attachment to the present establishme nt their Protestant fellow-subjects did. ed Eneland little Mr. S. RICE considered that Ireland ow , . "In twenty- , gratitude for the measures adapted since the lin_ i dic'flo'r which the one years hut three important acts had asse P toespla Government could suppose themselves entitled c . tag in the from the Irish people. Ile noticed the freqnuen 1 n ht if some. • rs•a d dioug government of that country of late year 'O . that Parliament thing were not done to give it more stab il i t y, means of restoring itself would scarcely be able to devise the m t e te aufre _ ngs 0 . Irish Ile depicted with gnat enlrinsLed th ar: .0.- the Irish population, and their causes. O South of Ireland, thing must be done by Government in th e tor the peon i .. either to provide enlarged employment lie thought woo ta cilitate emigration ; and the latter tussah of keening up large be more economi ca l t h a n the Presant s ystem sufferers.— military establishments to awe the . d had to complain, he . Among the grievances of which lrelan In the city of % noticed the great increase of local taxation. the charge rs, Dublin alone, during the last twenty-one yea from 2, 4001, to borne by its inhabitants had been encreasect Iry 27,001)!. He supported the amendment. Lord Esr NISRIORE explained. the charge that Mr. V. FITZGERALD strongly denied , 0 , _ oer . England bad only exerted herself to ieflict measurve:rattisc in, elms on Ireland. He reminded the House of the 1 , the tiaY, °- stances in which England had succoured Ireland ut 0 ,. to o t • • distress. The present measure was one the adoption 1 but this • could only be justified by the necessiy of the case ,__ r ot a. . • being established, if it were thought right to cell for , 112: titution rection Act, he thought it would be treason to the halltd°'l weir I not to bring it into action without delay. If Irelan to m a burden to England, it was no fault of ber's-circuni , ti i i er bad made her so, but for the meat urea whichjiad rei1u.,c1..b1e,.... to this situation, no Ministers of our time were r`r 4) , °l ',.',. it hail The good effects produced by the Insurrection Act " c ' ' he was previously been enforced, induced him, convinced al 1 .. to of the necessity which existed for resorting to it' "tmwle„ltl vote for the re-enactment of the law, but to. hope that it be passed without loss of time. it to be Mr. P. MOORE opposed the Bill, and announced, clock in his intention to tit up, if necessary, till two or three 0 irep the morning to prevent certain stages of it from cing s ' • b he 1 1 °"' e titiously pressed on the House. He hoped that t . llama would not pass the measure without first obtaining 11 tion, of which it was not possessed at present• uld c d wo Mr. BECIIER, if nothing better were pro :41iry to support the measure, being convinced that it wits Tr_ c t o i lovi ett put down insurrection ; but he hoped that it would too, dis by acts of a very different nature. He should, h°" coer cion amble, if he were not to sa that in Its Opinion,ort rosh must be used, in the first instance, revolt men .. t he to n should vote tor ing on to their own destruction. He sh°" - be lost , h e , amendment of the Noble Lo r d, and if that should. et a m otiotl , should then feel him se lf a t lib ert y to support the orifitS the °rig:- Sir F. BLAKE and Colo ne l BAGWKLL SUPP°rIe nil Motion. The House then di v id e d, w h en the numbers t eer 82 For the Amendment - - - la Against it - -......-80 - . . Majority The original Motion was then agreed to. A th Hali te e a of an - e The other Orders of the Day were disra e ' m orning. adjourned at a Quarter before Three o'cloc k t."' s - , 1 LAW INTELLIGENCE. THE MATTF The AI:I: COURT OF CHANCERY , 314tv 1J• the ained leave to be inserted in the .R OF LORD PORTSMOV,I.O wijei FORNEY-GENERAL Said, that tO the Pe tlt4° d o :, to he had opt ' confirm • ~,,_ ~ Master's report appointing a committee of pit . - ortsmoutit s (.4 tate, there was no objection Inlitle-- confir ' confirmed accordingly. paper for to•., .4ord o l 'Dr. Clarke C t ° lsi N s S d with various irregularitiesa i y ST u o .llc t i l ii i : C a.t: O hitibec t e r v, R ,:a T irgut t day of ,des:fuinsyt w e 'out b e ri l i n 4 ct ot: alV" r i on ir,t i l n rol._em e rve ou ar, rt_pursuant to admonition, in the suit institu. d it o i i b fo y r the Church Wardens of Great IValrhan, In , which parish he is the Vicar • lin which they chatbe,tion l of his duty. The Court held that the charges bad he .he Lim o: u tn n wtht tl eienla t vt h el a tthea t ne n el o thanedv sit einor b ugi s i :. ip:el n ne t lei l d ig edh tl is ; ro f o e m n s. c l e l4. h fi. t d uen b le e sr et jotio ' nn ea ! yhatsoever, both in his own parish and in the diocese c' t fearing, as Inetent to allay the irritation of spirit and restore r urt harmony between himself his rrisbioners. The kola su—. he remarked, that l a s condemned him likewise in coats, but directed that thei 9 " be duly taxed. ;site,rteJrueilecrftilir convey news to the French ea d to The telegraph is not only now emploiethe capital from _ army, but to distribute the same intelligece fro m the capital to the provinces. A striking instancee of this rapidity appears in the Strashurgh 4to of the sth, which, arri-finz yesterday, ontal the bulletin published at Paris on the same dad'