The Sun. — London, England, 1812-03-24 00:00:00

eas'ons, and this was cn3 which they should by no me , ns suff 1 - to pass unnoticed. For a long time the person to whom he alluded ha , i large sums of the publ c money passing through his hands ; and it was not a little extr ,oichitary that one of the C erks of the Treasury should be able to expend such large sums as he hld done in building and in other ways. He thought it his duty, thus early, for the reasons he had stated, to call the attention of the House to the subjec - t, respelling which he trust ed they should hear something from the Noble Se cetary of State. The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, their Lordships Must be sure he could-not regularly afford any in formation on the subject. The transaction referred to; was one between the Lords of the Treasury, and one of the Clerks of that department ;. the prodeed ings were of some notoriety, and by the extent that was issued, a consideratle sum was obtained. The affair did not come under his immediate cognizance. It was un4pubtedly competent to the Noble Earl to bring forward 'a motion on the subject if he thought proper ; and it would be for the House to consider how far such motion could be eut.;:itained. ORDERS IN COLINICII.. . _ Earl FITZWILLIAM, in a _faint voice, addressed a few observations to the House, which appeared to us to refer to this subj , i6l. He said he should have several petitions to present from manufaCturers and other commercial' persons, complaining of the in jurious and demo ctiVe consepri-nces resulting to their interests from the system 461 measures connect ed with this subjza ; and chit, when theSe 'petitions should be before the House, he feel if in cumbent on him, under the circurnsiauees, to come forwa i rd with a :notion respecting the abrogation of . so njurtou, a system. AFFAIRS OF INDIA. Earl GREY observed, that under the circumstances of the case, he felt the attention of Parliament should be specdily_direeted to another topic of the highest importance. He meant the affairs of India, sled the approaching expiration of the Company's caarter. In this view he had to express his sur ly Ise, that not a single document, or an official paper, had yet been laid on the ,table by Ministers. What he principally rose for was, to ask it Ministers meant to bring on his great and important subjea in the remaining part of the present Session of Parliament ; and to know their opinion whether, during the re munder of the Session, there would be adequate time for the due consideration of so extensive and' important a stibjeEl ? Lord ViscOunt MELVILLE, in answer to what had fallen from the N ble Earl, stated, that it certainly was inteudrd to bring forward the subject adverted to, in the present Session of Parliament: It would be brought forward as soon as possible after the re cess. He had also to state, that a disclission was going on between the Court. of Direttors and Go veroment on the subject; and he had little doubt but soon after the recess it would be produced. With respeet to what the Noble Earl stated as to the time the remainder of the SesstOn would afford lie said, it wa's h ghly probable that fully as much time would be alloaed fin the discussion as was al lowed on the last occasion the subj.,,a was Under the consideration of Partiament. It was at that time the lnttr end of Ai ril wren it vas brought for ward. Their t—dships would recollect that a Com mittee of the'House had the subj.2o long under their cunsideration ; and lie was confident that Noble Lords H oul4 be amply and stuisfaetorily informed OD the ,übject. The Earl of LAUDERDALE concurred in the opi 7 riot: of hi :Noble Friend, that the subject should be IKought under the consideration of Parliament at an ear tier ' , period. The Noble Viscount said as much time as possible would be allowed for the con sid.a ation of the übje Et , but there was not the least • j'esemblance existing between the case, as it at this time presented itself, and as it then, steod. At that time they were 16 believe that the East India trade could be only carried on through a very extensive capita!, and preferably, by a joint stock company. It was carried on by a company who avowedly had no capital at ail! He was afraid there was no resem 7 blance in the cases. A - negociation, it was said, was carrying on between Government and the Company, but he would ask, were the Govern ment and the Company tke only parties? Were not the deteriorated, the distressed manufacturing and commercial interests of the country to be con salted and attended to ? They were told this would have been the case on the former occasion, but in that instance the traders were deceived by the Ml 'nisters. .The iime was not sufticieot in either case, and he thought the result of the discussion alluded ita ought to be-laid before Pat liament. Lord Viscount 'MELVILLE in explanation said, he should not - be provoked by any thing which tell from the Noble Earl to enter into any premature discus sion of topics not regularly before the House. When the period for consideration should arrive, when the subjra should be before the Public and Parliament, be should answer, ar.d he trusted successfully, the *rguments of the Noble Earl. In a feW days longer, by booed, they all would be infOrtued of what Go vernmetit intended to propose to the Legislature on the subject. The Earl of LAUDERDALE spoke in explana tion. - Earl of DARNLEY acquainted the House, that as he understood it . was' not the intention of Ministers, to extend the prohibit;,on of distillation from grain to Ireland, he should bring forward the proposition connetied with the subject to-morrow, agreeably lo'his nonce on a former evening. The House resolved into a Committee on the Lo cal Bill, in which, after some conversation between the Earl of Liverpool and Earl Fitzwilli am, a few amendments were propoSed by the Noble So tretary of State, were agreed to by. the Commit tee, end the Report was ordered to'be received to- morrow. The Debtors Rel'el Bill passe 4 l through a Com mittee•, and rrceived 8n amendment, suggested by the LORD CHANCELLC , ft. To be reported to7mor low,.—Adjottrued. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A4ONDAY, MARCH 23. - . A new writ was ordered for the County of Nor thumberland, in , he room . of Earl Percy, called up to the other House. Mr. HERBERT postponed his motion respeaing the LeehSe '1 rade, to the i 6 :h April. Accounts of Uri net produce tot the Permanent Taxes for the last year ; of the ar4ount of the Na tioual Debt, and expeuces from 1790 to 1811, were laid on the Table. 131ttACH.OF PitIVtLEGE. Mr. ED-B N -made a complaint against a man of the name of Hayes; an Officer to the Sheriff of satiey, for having arrested a person of the name of Campbell, who was on his way to be examined be fore a C-Antnittee of this House. The Hon. Mem ber stated that he was Chairman of the Committee .. appointed to inquire iorothe state and condition of the Transports. It being necessary, to examine Mr. Campbell, he on Friday issued his precept, requir ing his attendance, and that person was, in obe dience to that precept, op his way to the Committee Room, when he was arrested by Hayes. Camp bell spewed the Officer the precept, but the latter disregarded the order, and carried him to a place of confinement, where he now remains. In such case, the Hon. Member observed, he should follow the pradice which was.adopted on similar occasions, and which was also rz-•cootised by the Judges of the Courts below, who always peote6ted Witnesses in going and coming to their.CourtS-rand move that " Mr. Hayes, Officer to the Sheriff of Surrey, and Mr. Campbell, do attend this House to-morrow." On the question being put, Mr.LOCKHART apprehended that there was no ne cessity to order the attendance of Mr. Campbell, as the Mere statement of the matter of -privilege to the House, would be sufficient to induee the -Offi' cer to discharge him out of custody ; therefore all, that was necessary . to be done was, to order the Of ficer to attend to answer the complaint. •- The bPZAKEIi observed, that the course of pro ceeding was so clear, that it was unnecescary for - him to interpose his opinion before putting the question. The course proppsed by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Eden) was, the ordinary Parlia mentary course, namely, to require the attendance of the two patties before the House—the one to state the cause and manner of his arrest, and the other to give such answer to the charg e as might to him seem proper for having committe d an exttaor dinary insult and outrage on the privileges of Par liament. The Order for the attendance of Hayes and Campbell was then made out. TRADE OF LIVERPOOL. General TARLETON presented a Petition from cer tain Merchants, Ship-owners; and Traders of the town of Lwerpooli against the renewal of the East India Charter, praying for an Abolition of the East India Trade Monopoly. Time Hon. General stated, that the Petition was-signed by upwards of 4000 persons, in one of the largest .assetubles hich had ever been convened in that town, and the signa tures were all procured in a few hours. On the question for bringing it up—. Mr. CEEEVEY did not rise to oppose it. On the contrary, he would he glad to see it on the table.— He merely rose to cOrreti a misrepresentation of the HonOurahle General's, with tespea to the aelual situation of the people'Of the town, and to maintain that - the statement -which he (Mr. Creevey) had originally made of their distresses, was the true ta lenient of their condition. He had stated, and he now repeated it, that the number of poor had in creased from eight to fifteen thousand persons. So _far from his account being overstated, (as the Hon. General, in the explanation which he had given on a former night, had made out) he was, from sub sevent information, more convinced than ever of his own correctness, and of the decay of trade in that to . wp. It was most extraordinary to him how any Gentleman could wish to deceive the House, w hen it was evident that, as he had before said, the ships were dismastcd, the riggers antr carpenters out of employ, and the general appearance of the town • such as to satisfy any person of the distresses under which the inhabitants labour. The absence of the American trade, which constituted one of the chief props of the town, had occasioned this decay, which was felt in Chester and Manchester ; also, in the • falling offof exports of salt and goods of various de scriptions, To shew the vast decrease in the trade, he had a document from the Customs _which stated the exports - for the last to o years for that town. In the year preceding the last the amount was two millions six hundred and seveniy-siX thousand pounds. In the last year 1,770,0001. being a defi ciency of about nine hundred thousand pounds be tween the two years _ending sth January last. In addition to the distress occasioned by the -absence of trade, there were distresses of another kind connect ed with'the colleaion of the . taxes. He understood that an Attorney in the town, (a Mr. Parti) per haps not the most eminent in his profession, find ing business not coming in, had made application to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and got conveyed into an InspeClor of the district. In this new cha ratter he suggested to his llght Hon. Friend, as his fellow townsmen would not employ him, that the revenue would be greatly improved by surcharging them on their assessments generally. The conse quence of these surcharges was a general manifesta tion of discontent throughout the town, and an alarth among the Collectors of taxes. The Sorveyor of the district finding he could not discharge tie oust reposed in him faithfully under the new li,- speclor, resigned his office, and others were about , to follow, or had followed his example. The At torney perhaps had received his appointment in con sequence of having been a client of the Right Ho nourable Gentleman, at a period of his life when he followed the profession of the law, and therefore gratitude might have led to the appointment, At any'rate, it was not to be endured that men should be induced by such appointments to become in former, against their neighbours and fellow towns men. Mr. ROSE was not prepared for the statements of the Honourable Gentleman. He would not deny that Liverpool, in common with other great towns, had felt decay of trade. With respect to the statement of the great increase of persons claim ing and receiving relief, he would wish to observe, that there were persons not receiving parochial aid, but who were, from circumstances, glad to obtain assistance from the Subscribers Fund, which had been established to a certain extent. This was no new fund, for the same assistance had been afforded se ven or eight years before, when similar pressure was felt; and then between seven and eight thousand more pet sons than the number stated by the Hon. Gentleman, were relieved. As to the decay of ship ping, he had received a return from the Colleaor or the and tlis numbers were only 93 or 4, and seven or eight of the owners of those ships had become bankrupts. In po'nt of faa, there were none lying by the walk, fur most of the ships had employ in other trades than to America. He would admit, however, that the interruption of the intercourse with that country had contributed to the injury of the saluArade, but upon the whole the de cay was less than might be reasonably expected un der existing circumstances. General TAItLE.TON referred to documents which he had before produced, to shew that the statement of his Honourable Friend (Mr. Creevey) was not corre&. These documents, winch he read, were furnished by the Committee at Liverpool, to refute what his Honourable Friend had asserted in his place ; and stated, that with resped to the situation of the inhabitants of Liverpool, 'diet had been af. forded, and some of them receiving tickets, had pawned them, Nat to procure rovisions, but to ob tain admission into the theatre ; that labourers might have had employ at the rate of 3s. per day, but they refused; that a sum of 2,5001. had been subscribed for the purpose of affording relief, and 2,e701. expended. With respe6t to British ves sels, and the persons employed in them, there was . not, on the 14th of March, a carpenter in the place unemployed. General GASCOYNE conceived the best mode of judging. of the state of the town, would be to take the medium between the two, accounts; most cer . tainly there had been a considerable diminution in the trade. It had been stated by his Hon. Friend, on a former occasion, that there were 56 ships no employed ; not one half of that number, however, were for sale. When it was recollected that three fourths of the trade at Liverpool was tO Antes ica, could it . be thought extraordinary that there was a stagnation ? He trusted that the inconvenience would be of a tempoialy nature only , the chief cause of the distress arose from the depiession cf the Colonial. trade. Mr. A. EsaiNC observed, that in the Town of Liverpool, the Corporation generally supported the Minister of the day, and their zeal of course in creased, to represent the town in a better condition than it actually was. He thought it was a great in jury to the interests of the country, that things should be misunderstood and misrepresented. It the Right Hon. Gentleman, who from hii situa tion was peculiarly appointed to watch the trade of the country; was so ignorant of the state of the Town of Liverpool, as to'credit the reports of the Mayor and Corporation, little chance of getting relief might be expected by the people. Whether the present system with respect to America was right or wrong, was not the question now, .but the fact was-, the trade of Liverpool was injured to an enormous extent in consequence, so also were the Potteries in Staffordshire, the Salt Work in Che shire, and the Trade of Manchester, all these places had suffered very materially. The Right Hon. Gen tleman bad misrepresented the state of the shipping in - the Port of, London ; there was not now a great demand for - transports ; - there never was a period when transports were taken up on smaller terms ; it was known that the owners were losers by the con trads they entered into, but they thought it better that their ships should be employed. It had b•!en, stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the French were giving way, and opening the door to a great trade. -But be would ask, was it a proper mode of remedy ing distress, to rake from the con tinent French calla - tries, lawns, jewellery wares, li nens,-- &c. brought in vessels of countries under the controul of France, to the amount of between t and 20001. per ton, and in return export to the va lue of only 51. per' ton ? Was this a fair balance of trade ? With respell to- what the Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Creevey) had said about the colledion of the taxes, he•was performing-an ungracious task in throwing obstacles in the way of the collection. „Mr. Rosa, in explanation, denied that he stated that the shipping of Liverpool was in a prosperous state, nor bad lie said that the shipping in the ports of • London was so. The transports had increaSed from 19 to 235. per ton. He 'believed he was cor red in that statement ; sure he was that the price of transports was considerably more than in former years. As to the trade with France, he had stated that he had reason to believe that some trade would be opened, but - to what extent he could not tell, nor indeed was the subject a fir one to discuss now. Mr. A. BARING observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman was mistaken. Mr. RUSE.--- I do avow again that the Hon. Gentleman is-most entirely mistaken." _ _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived the House would not think he adeff correctly, were he to allow the observations-of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Creevey), to pass unnoticed. The tone and manner of the Hon. Gentleman, when talking of the appointment of the Distil& Inspector of Liver pool, must have impressed on the House an opinion that he felt most warmly fur, some old client, as the Hon. Gentleman was pleased to term this surveyor, to whom he (Mr, P.) had owed a good turn for,for mer_favours, and therefore thought the best thing That could be done for old friendship was to get him to surcharge his feli9w-townsmen, for which pur pose he had appointed him to a situation in which he rnklit carry his object into effect. S•A the. Hon, Gentleman wi:shed the House to understand. -It appeared from the statement of the Hon. Gentle man, that this old client and new protegee, so anx ious to carry on his nurpoSe, had 'under him a person of very delicate nerves, who, not being able to fol low his superior Officer in his duties, thought pro per to resign. Now, with respect Co this attorney and client, he had no knowledge whatever,_ but fie did recoiled something of the Gentleman under him of delicate nerves---the same, he supposed, from whom the Honourable Gentleman had colleeted corred information—who had been called upon to account for some misconclud, and this call had so abutted him,, that he thought it better to resign.—He did recoiled that another per son was appointed upon the recommenda tion of Mr. Lowndes, and that person, he ima gined, was the old - client of whom he had spoken, but of whom he had not the most distant recolle-c -tion. , Now, it would become the Hon. Gentleman, before he roundly asserted any thing fur fact, a lit tle to suspect the accuracy of his informant, espe • cially when that informant was a discarded Sur - veyor.—(l-lear! hear !)--The tone and insinuation of the Hon. Gentleman implying more than was said in words. If he (Mr. P.) had roade'a bargain with an old client, as was insinuated, would not 1.14 Hon. G,Ciltlqa)RD have acts wore fairly-, if Int had made it the sublect or a grave charge agairat him (or an act, as unworthy a one as could be yell imagined ? With respect to surcharges generall, there was no intention of making any such agree ment, and „until the persons making surchprges Were examined, it was the greatest assumption which the Hon. Gentleman could take upon him. , self to suppose they were wrong. Was it nut right that pers , ,ns assessed should pay their just proportion to.the expense of the-State; and therefore if they kept back, was it not equitable too, that they should bo chzfrged to the extent of their liability to pay ? The Right Hon. Gentleman deprecated the pradice of making false statements of the trade and resources of the country, as injurious in the highest,degree_ Mr. CR EEVEY denied that he had received his fin - Illation from. a disc t . deci Colleaor. The-1-Jon.• Gentleman was proceediii , 2, when .the House.calie.l' but " Spoke, spoke!" And after .an obseivatioit from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Petition wai brought up. Mr. A. BARING declared that he should not gone into the subjeti, if he had not thought the pe. Lion wag a general onc, complaining of distress, atsLi not for the non-renewal of the Company's Chat ter. He wished to know whether it was intended to' bring on the suhje..l of the Company's Charter thN : year ? He hoped if so, it would,not be put off ti.l the close of the Session. Mr. Rosa was ready to meet the subjea when it was regularly before the House. It would not bo decent or becoming. to make any obierrations Oputt any sui*Cl totally irrelevant to the question before the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, in answer to the. Hon. Gentle►uan, .that. it was - his in tention, after the recebk, to bring the measure be fore the House. The petition was then laid on the table. General TA BLETON presented two other peti ions on tie saute:subject fiorn the Corporation. On the motion.ot Mr. Rosa, an account of the number of tanspoits hired, and the prices paid for the same, flout 1.807. to the 20th► Match List, ordered to be laid hetore,the . House. Lord CASTLRREAGII gave notice, that on Wed nesday he would move, in,a Committee of Supply, the usual subsidy of 400,0001. for the deleoce of Sicily. Lord PALMERSTON brought up certain returns, ordered by the House, and, obtained lcave to bring in the usual Bill for incmsing the rates of Int:- keepers' allowances. M !YNOOTII COLLEGE. - - Sir J. NE' PORT wi.hed to know if the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ryder) had any objedion tq produce the documents on which he had giounded" an assertion he had advanced in a late debate, name► ly, that many of the persons who had received their education at Maynooth College had made an un due use of the "influence they possessed, to, gala proselytes to the Roman Catholic _religion. - Mr. RYDER denied having accused the persons educated at Maynowli, of exerting an undu , ,. ence ; but he had said, if means could be dcvi-ed of divesting the establishment of such a n etfrot he should be glad, as he believed it tended to spre.id the Roman Catholic Religion in,coine tmts of Ire land, IA here form :0y the Protestant Religion was, in a great measure, established. With tins feeling , he bad opposed any extension of the gram for tin; support of that College. Sir JOHN NEwroaT repeated, that the • . Rig-ht Hon. Gentleman had made use of the words winch had '..•!..a) imputed to him, and said, he would give notice of a motion to-morrow for the produdion of those documents, on. which what be had advanced was founded. The SPEAKER observed, that -to give such a no• tice, with a reference to words said to have fallen from an Hon. Member on a former occasion, but, which were denied, and to call for documents on them, went beyond any thing which bad hitherto been the custom of Parliament. Sir .1. NEWPORT gave notice, that he would move to-morrow for documents on the subjed. Mr. D. GIDDY wished for some information re spe.eting the Dublin Capal Company. Mr. W. POLE begged leave, in answer to the question proposed to him by the Hon. Gentlemtw, to stale, that the subject to which he had referred, had occupied the most serious attention of rte Government ; and he hoped to be able, after i he Ho. lidays, to lay some Papers before the House respect ing this Company. He had taken great pains to in vestigate their afTh:rs, and he had no hesita. ion in saying, that the more he Gad inquired, the more the opinion which he had formerly expressed upon thic, subject was confirmed. This was certainly a case of great importance ; he hoped, however, that the Hon. Gentleman would be satisfied. with this gene ral answer at present ; he would certainly. torn his attention to it dining the recess,. and he hoped, that. at the conclusion of it, he should be able to com municate to the Hon. Gentleman, and the House, some satisfaaory information. COLON EL NPMARON. Mr. WARD wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentle man opposite (the Chancellor of. the Exchequer) question, on the subject of Colonel . new - appointment. He wished to know if tl.e office of Keeper of the Privy purse was a new office, a-d if there was a salary attached to it ? The CUANCULLOR of the EXCHEQUER presumed the Honourable Gentleman was aware. that Colvnel Taylor had held such a situation under ti.e King, for which he received a salary. Colonel M‘Malion received the same salary from the Prince as Colonel Taylor had , received for the same service under the King. Mr. WARD wished to koow what were the - duties of this Office. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived the duties of it to be in some measure expressed by its name. They we►e those of a Private Secretary to the Regent. Mr. WHITBREAD wished to ask, if such an office had been in existence before the infi;mhies of the, King rendered.it- necessary? He bad thought thir such an Officer tad only been appointed in conse quence of the infirmities of the King, and it he was correct in this idea, it might have been hoped , that stch an Officer Would not have been required by the Noce Regent. He wished to know whether or not the appointment of Colonel Taylor had ever been gazetted as a regular Court appointment, and whether the salary of, Colonel MrMahon was to h e d awn from' the same fund on which. that. a Colonel Taylor had been charged,