The Sun. — London, England, 1846-03-17 00:00:00

of tine pol L oil e Bing ter the -41i1 waY gh the 13reila, re right ute the e herer. to-dal of 10 k, veg . I ,T, be report. confirrn Ws 011° L ie °cell' withou t ra solu - Lu l a t;q ll : npt w i ` l n-insitioo be 'lin 'eons not Gover n : Lern, it ved o'er ;in rod' Craco ir ' ation• r oi 'j:l7cziot n twenty priAimere• the In a tiii 6 urrection Ldch the)? tonisbioS I. BUD. 62 13 ,g 61 E• r `, A c $t a • m orn'' ' bou !, ) 1 3 ce r arnn der so itcbe 6 ' (20 , 0 1, „ to r el frog , Dept' for , of th e js:' al 1 1 ' 116 i n ches* 0 1001 of C° A 0 1 52 ' t ti` " !" t 0 10 ig- 11 : o f i t e •ct r olf ti e th e " o c le ute i P4 i ron" rig l "te; i 1,05 r$ A S 1 0 3, 0, - r„,(r - o ' 13; si . e ,i 4f thet 1r" a „0 1 ‘ e ( t / ' $ tipe ;It i i_ ll on, to t aLe r ) 1 •„ t , 813/' O ur de" ' _l4. • • er r ' e t, Nodg f'crt- k : •-• it. 0 ,1 ,010 1° - 4tS t'' r 9Ad 014 D o o . yeg, a f tett° er' l 7, ,tsft hel 01 tb , ! e l le tip i l , iOO l. ,4 th e rry I b t e lO n eo ci s )rfloo',4o/ e 00,4 e o bi li ; 1 0$t n ,.rli t f.:1 1 eft d e r tvribe • stbc r. so i tou t , r to Litl: , i ts• 111,7.10 th 10 6 ' it tb: o druid re `;' re °di .. flei 9i; 11" ) l t,e , ,11 c :3 .: 1 - rit 11 :a . f"' i CUg sl'' •„110%t • rdb,Y,r ,re! .~.. F T. 4 - PO• • SA 01 LW:D...., March 16. ZllC,;?,isnps met. Five P_,%!:colc• witN WALL at AND CENTRAL DEVON RAILWAY. uGIIAM, producing. en immense roll of , said —My - Lords,. I Inure the honour to pre. „,;',°,4 Lordships a pet•tion wh;eh your Lord - IttPr• • • ' Wte j it ut d e ter thetc)ei.e is of great voinme, it„ ar e at great. or extemive measures to Pr" sent before the country. relate, 1 1 7rIPPa s uo import an t mi-a..ure• ard it is calledlll ' th e. Cornw a ll rind Central Devon Railway. °ell; petition I ever nrestnted in favour of t 441 1C. 1 'i, 111 ,4 being one really: of -the greatest ien " worthy of your Lorl.ships' oven 11,bt,teors': , a ,greed up m at an immense county meet -041'04i,,,,,4. My Lords, tho I have the honour k"'tllt a ii' , is in favour of the Cornwall and Central I.:)waY ; and it will be only necessary for me ~e lL a tet to entitle it to the utmost attention of 044, t t l iPs• It is signed by no fewer tan pit o. ..nay tisand 'Cornish men, including „ t he landed proprietors of the county, and in '4t -41"t the electors of the ); i t three fourths of ‘ta cotir li also signed, to show that the interest t t bilil l i t ., l °ed to Cornwall, by 15,000 of the men of . 1 Y Lords, I will say no' more than 0 4 , 4 , (I.l.itci sufficient to entitle the melsure to the tle . p a , t ,',r 4 llen and attention of the Ho ,:e. I,ht N 0 '.„ .1 .()n was ordered to lie on the able. ji t ofti 4 ;;E LORD then presented a petition from the t ailrr dt agida t one of the Lincolnsh'.ro railways. OlaP; 4 Ili-may told the netl.oner that if he in their proceelings it would he all the worse I. l it•ti a Prayed their Lordships' most serious con 44kjitiotavour of the petitioner. o wris ordered to lie on the table. '",!irt', l3 ,,°f LONDON presented a petition, pray. tjt of t " . '`dPs not to alloW of any increase in the )4 , kl ktitslitlblic-houses. s a ,, Ii JAIRD presented a petition from some f r o a ",ttoff, deprecating the cesecration of the . the 30th November laSt, by the depositing 041417 Plana on that day, and praying that the 4 !tie t e i *ool d prevent a recurrence of such an act. Of DALHOUSIE said that several repre e:loll p been made to him on the subject of the ‘te ll !iew r : t i e tltk'd by • the' Noble Lord. iNo per tha • the matter with deeper ,regret tad •-" the scene of the 30th of November 4,1 t d id not lessen his re ; ret to know that tt the ea of . bustle and confusion were going k olltit; b attle time in every county through thi s h • Every e xer ti o n h a d been made to ri it 46 ce , -ding, - but it could not be done with `tiserialt."'n of the law.. In consequence of asnount .of money 'at stake, he did llitw to incur the -responsibility of refusing Ltif T .The 'nee, s s ity arose frp in a standing V l ci b a t rg ainent ; and, under all the circumstances, 1174! undertake.- to :act otherwi.e than he had l',.e•sPeet, however, to the future,.he Yk ti d" te% days submit to their Lordships th alents in the standing orders which would Ol t : r ecurrence of similar scenes. His amend kEtt sthrirling order in question would appoint 'Pi Vby whi c h S un d a y world he avoided. t`"ta OREGON TERRFI'ORY. ON, u t ( 'LARENDON said that he would move jti to for the [r, duction of the correspondence I t ll 4 •"nPlact• her • ' n her Majesty's Government 114 i. "e the Oregon ty. t ier at Washington, relative to 4 a .; + l, 4, fav () r i , "'s of CLA.NRICARDE presented a peti t,6ol the Irish Great Western Railway (from 1 1, 111 4i lwa Y ) b ut , t UPOLITAN BUILDINGS ACT. BUCCLEUCIIof stated that he would ~'oi'tlnd-reading of this Bill on Thursday next. bALIIOUSIE gave notice that he would , ;4 'ilt4 ll4 ill returns relating to the production of GHAM have notice flint he 'wOuld move or the numb .r of arehbisho a- and bishops the amount of foes and revenues which • ta,.: e eeived iu 1831, and the amount they re ther adjourncd. 4 0 , St.l.._BE OF COM PIO VS, March 16. took the Chair at a few minutes to If tlf. ? ,''el e , NEW MEMBERS. 1 1 1 ' IL LE took the oaths and his seat for the l , t t $ se, e Wind sor. ' t iked . A ltNEtalE also took the oaths and his seat 1, 1511, SECOND READINGS. • . . t -7 ' . 'ng Bills were read a second time and ' I ° be -le /) , committed, viz. :- 41 Naent t v`'av' '' ,1 1 1 , 4 111 , 4 1 gation. •' , "d South Wales Railway (by order). t oth, „ . ,' Race. a id Midland Junction Railway. V t lfiert l ilt, and Basingstoke Railway (Tring to "Marais ‘.o\ . ~ 1 , „) 4 w ... t,,,,,d . • - ' , i, N, ~,er-4.l)rks. • i,, i cav j' l l d Belfa s t U n i on R a il wa y. i'%i,„ •.,4rhour 9riand•Junctian Railway Terminus. "z 1 % P . ,„;? 3 hankment. ' • ''a ,o.,'ldiEß mewed that the following recommen- Oit t :ltain.ed in th e tifih report from the S :lect : ,i ttl,%, on Railway Bill s Classification be con -3,1 11,,t - 4 ..:—., Your Committ ee further recom - • ..ki d, the Worsborough Branch of the tti,twshton, and - Manehescer Railway (Dukin ,,,title• qaborotigh . and Gl oss op B ranc he s , and Shef- S ' k kl i n). be provided for in a separate` Bin, and Me et t his this group (No. 37)." That the report, from Ave, eommittee on petitions for private Bills, 1.11 1 Y:',..11 1 , Oth of Fermi:lrv, in reference to the Sheffield, Ne l l' ,:. I ', l "r-Line ' and . M inchester Railway (Dukin ,i,litidle-:.o,orough, and Glossop Branches, and . Shi,.tti . eld tl i , l ll f ` l t 'on, be real; and that leave be given to bring k tir i pt itte z Z e e,flabling the. Sheffield, Asitfi in- ulider-Lin , -, VI t, 341 ' Railway Company, to make a Branch i'l4()ti ‘Vorshorough. It t 0 11 was agreed to. ii 41 NORTH AND SOUTH WALES ,„tat or , RAILWAY. i . ‘" l se a l tlS moved that the order of the day for the ittlin •• - discharged. - „ , I, I J L , t , of this Bill• be IN lik„ . 'VANS said that the discharge of the order 1i, t i11a. 4 . 14 t'ne exposure of °Lie of the most disgraceful ttl .t Vtel l ,, t i_ h " ever Leen brought before Parliament. 'St ' c har e 4 i tu , gd. . do e r 0 - I ' l2 presented a . ,petition in favour of the e t w`-”tinsboretigh Railway Bill. '4 l l `eati .e.t.Sll MIDLAND RAILWAY. , .., w tlif. ' () 013 presented a i elation from a parish in s . "our of thi s r a il wa y. N. ,1 11, 1 ,,, LIVERPOOL DOCKS. ''' Y i '''I" ) ON presented a petition from a select Wlt IP: Li v i_li je erpool, complaining that the proposed ‘t . °40,. I vould injuriously affect them to the extent e , c 40). -P e r annum, and praying that they might be it ,"f;er'lisel before the Committee upon the Bill. ~Ikr , e , W , Tds from Mr. GREENE, the petition .e4.,:iti tit the Committee. ai t OBSERVANCE OF THE LORD'S %,4I• 4 . - DAY.. ‘t, t i l l t o t I NG CIS pre-tented a petition praying the i Nli, 1,,.,ii',:,s smut: measures for the better observance zmL ta. ' L s-day. The petitioners complained . espe iNi: la. t t ", violation of the Sabbath in Nit- Atl;k 1.,: ' `,'Y the parties who deposited plans, &c., ktile i o l 1411 wayi in the offices of thQ Board of Trade, ti t titl e , I , tot ht have been prevented by the Le -11 k civ e , i:roviding that those documents might have Z 4, m ad on the next day. They prayed the H use t e " t t 'op a state - of things and generally to `CP 't e: t t t% 4 f ' P*Ss measures providit'g for the better ob 11%kble the Lord's-day. The petition waS in kt itl t „,. ti nd numerously signed, .; He also held in k ' , 6 Other petitions to the same effect. l '• RI Vr 'l4i '•,,,,.. CORN -LA% S. 40 qt ' l, Presented a petition from Mallow against . tnetisur of -tile Government with regard to ale - es o. i i,II I :Ce't"' kNe. p -L ESIASTICAL - PREFERMENTS. t tlit • /11,F vo. 1 -qei 4- ~EI presented a petition from (as we l .in ) s the Reverend Mr. Brown, of Bal -41,i. ah i treland, complaining of the disadvantages I, :t!hoe tL ) l ;he minor clergy of the Established Ct.urch t li t ti „' l ttloUred in consequence of the selfiah con i s tn air ecclesiastical superiors. The pea ''iti,hfeolt,„4ll that he had been a curate for the e 7 4 t -4 r4a l- seven , ears, and that he had always ,a Pa t . his - duties in a satisfactory manner. 1,.. 11 (t",iil t d hlg . which his application for promo b.‘,l"kli - ; e11 rtkcted by the Blshop of Limerick, ~It,,,i'ile, 'h. each case appointed his own sons or ille,' th it eouneiciens to fill them. He further k y)r - NIA Ile had been nineteen years in the dio tgt:lttillr, "' a t a person who had nut served in it ‘'''ii r 'li(,,,": , ' - ji years was appointed . . b t the titshop to 1,1,. t of . vint.h tie applie , l. One living, which ae•s in ' t y l vt t 3 "en persohs, of whom five votAi for him, i.7 1 i1 4,1 3.,:iv or, Bishop to his chaplain. Ile there titt„, t,,,, i t 4 the. House too take steps . to enable li. i t ) it,;(l devoted their lives to r- ligious duties k l 'i' '' I,lt Pr"fnoti . en to which they were entill d. '` 4 1 , 4 , It I E MINIST E,ll I 1 L PO 111 IY. ' flk, " 4 . I NNER-; .1- ••;ent. (I a p tition from Nr: w -16 °i n' ttf the tnea. l s ' iir ' es of the Government. llii,'ll t i- IiANOOIt AND S I'. ASAPII. V s t.;,. NI %maga presented' a petition a':_aitist the N4l: It! ,n, er. , and •Sr N.-npll it ~ o f u:in, 4 ..r ‘• • • e l it ~ : () I ? V I)U TIES A-Ni) IMPORTATION. OF ll,,,e is tilA - v" PROM 'l'llE UN 1.1 ED S PATES. om ti','lti e '\ itl) DOU iL..,S presented petitions from 4; . t . ' 1, 4 1 ,i4.,„, C ,!' of coitan -; c. of 1......vciTp0 , ii and the prit,et • Ot e „''er, „*"'s aeainst, list; prepesed loather rt cltc • ~, t i ~,t t '; G, "'" i t :,,. . t • ; --; .11 ,i . corn It OM LI, c; U:'• c• .1 I 'o ... Il ' • •' .. '• ! • '- ' I - - '. ,of i i 'l l '.1 , , , , ' '.1.i ,, , -. c:)!,, , ,: , .., , ,A.'in.; that it 1.r0pu.:,.., . 'f t " tl ' ,''' :'' 1,,, ',. , .i•i wai, ia re,lity offering a !•• p er ,- h t. •lt eihmtry of es. 6d. eer ,barrel on now, and la il l , a t t t.'. l ' , r , er en avte:at over- the . proitice of Canada.. I th. t orer , theretore, that the nortions of the un..rt,,ore red t" these tv.tiolt.s might not be carried into tt Aci I - -1., '• . 1 -cpr Tri/ ki cOV PENS NTION. - a. Yi r ,, •fl 'et„ „-',_, ' - ' -' ' I ' . ,''' ^. 1 ) ; j t 1 4 1 . • 't 1 v•IN prespot,d a petition from Limerick, 1, : t i . , , iii" r it . .• iripeta , , , ,ti - 0: - '1 la tilt - , cgricultoribts o, that , '''lts,, s ' 4 'vent of t h e Ilieisteritil measure passing 1 6 • Il ti. • l it il to 1 , 1 M t , BUILDINGS BILL. lOC -t '''') ' Pr , :ante.l up..titi..n front certain builders e . , p . - • .. . ,A A 11 1 ,, 0 )111t 1 tlg eut many deiteits in a Bill then . i i t(47t : "1 i l .,i' s l t ' 3 , for the Purpose of • .•.mending a Bui . ld. • • e., il e iti , .. session, and praying the House to un. ' ktOP, Vi : h, the txteilt rt.cptir..(l. I , cl 'i) t ,' 11 4 AATItINS IN THE ISLE OF WIGHT. s ari s r N. M,., , t - ' 44ll Pit i - , ..nted a p••11.1oii troth the Il‘ ) 11. ' 4.8 . P '" Oikt'lli it I ' e Isle of Wight, complaining of . the 'tit it '',. giLiaLfferunce of the It4;xeis..• to the touttcr of I\44tltiLt!c ,w le,Pr`Liilg iliel H .use to recitic the duty en I. ' t t• ` th the view of doing away altogether with i:.,7 - ., 1 R0ir,c17 ''lr-.Nc,4, Ti;.l•' • • • tition e,rtant zneient, au the parish ut Nlatylenone, comptatu int; that series of poietutions had beast instituted against it,,tividnals on the score of blasphemy, and pray ing that the laws which authorised such proceedings might be put an end to. CORN-LAWS. • Taitions wtre• presetteJ by Mr. Thoinely, Mr. BaiLi Coehrabe, and • atc:tt.or fLat. Member, against the cern-laws, frem Staffurdshire and Bridpurt. SUNDERLAND DOe.:K.S. Mr. GREENE presented a petition in favour of the Bill fir making a railway to these docks. CORN LAWS (IRELAND). Lord G. BE:` , iTINCE: pres , :qtted a petition, signed by • itim•tet n magistrates the county of Tipperary, rissm bled at Mime!, including the High Sheriff, praying that the measures of the Government in respect of the corn-laws might not be pawed, and stating that in the event of those measures passing, they apprehended a great scarcity of potatoes, as they believe , that. the curtain consequence of those measures would be to throw a large quantity of land now unemployed in the growth of potatoes out of cultivation, and, consequently, oecasion the greatest distress in the county Tipperary. Ile had another petition to present of a rather remarkable character ; it was signed by upwards of 3.000 of the electors of the eastern division of Cumberland, and he believed, with the exception of the steward of the Estate, it was signed by every individual tenant of the Laird of Netherby Hall (z-,ir James Graham).—(A laugh.) The object of the petition was to pray that the Government measure re specting the corn laws might not pass the Legislature. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pre sented a petition praying for the continuation of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor, which was ordered to lie on the table. GOVERNMENT MEASURES. Sir R. PEEL said he had been requested to present a petition, which, from the respectability of the signatures attached to it, he felt highly honoured in being called on to present. It was signed by the vast majority of the great commercial gentlemen of the city of London, and he believed it included all the merchants engaged in the East India trade, and was couched in the Most respectful terms. The petitioners complained of the great stagnation and embarrassment under which commerce at present suffered ; and they prayed that the House would consider such with a view to relieving the em barrassment. • The Rignt Hon. Gentleman presented another petition from the linen manufacturers of the North of Irelsnd. They stated that since the removal of protection the culture of flak had flourished, and was the only article of agri cultural produce that had flourished ; and further, that they were then -in a position to compete, in the manufuetuee of linen, with any country in the woad. provided that no protection was afforded them. The Right Hon. Baronet presented a third petition from the work ing men employed in the establishment of Beily Bro.- thers, Salebridge, in the county of Chester, praying that the late measure* introduced by her Majesty's Govern ment might pass into law as soon as possible.—(Hear, hear.). The petitioners stated that the application was their own spontaneous act,-tied that they were unite fluenced in so doing by their employ ers.—(Hear.) STATE OF IRELAND. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he eished to give nodes , that he would postpone his motion with respect to Ire land until after Isaster.—(llear, hear.) Mr. OSBORNE desired to aek whether the attention of the Government had been directed to the facilities which the Irish Arms Act afforded to ill-disposed persons to pastas themselves of arms; and whether it was the intention of the Government to bring in any measure for the amendment of that Act ? Sir J. GRAHAM observed that the Irish Arms Act did not realise all the benefits enthipated, nor was it at tended with the evils that some lion. Gentlemen sup posed. The Act terminated in that session, and he did not See any reason why the Government should not propose, its renewal a ith proper amendments. Mr. SHAW wished to ask whether it was the in tention of the Government to adopt the some course with regard to the Coercion Bill as they did in 1833 with regard to the Arms Bill. The cum se then pursued was, the Bill was read for the first time on a Friday, and Lore; Alt.horp' moved - its second reading on the Wednesday following. He wished to know whether the Govern ment meant, in point of time, - to follow that precedent ? Sir R. PEEL said his earnest desire was to name the earliest day that he possibly could for the consideration of that measure. But he must say, at the same time, he was most anxious to proceed with those measures which were, of vital- importance to the trade of this country—(Hear, hear)—and of such importance did he deem them that he must postpone for the present the Irish Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He did not know whether the House would go through the tariff that night or not, but he hoped they might -(hear, hear.) They would fix the second reading of the Corn Bill for to-morrow, and he would Then name the earliest day that he could for the first read ing of the Irish Bill, and he was determined to pro ceed with it as rapidly as he could.—(Hear, hear.) THE ARMY. . . Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE (who spoke in a very low tone) was understood to ask what was the intention of Government with respect to the clause of the Act of en listment, under which it appeared that about 400 soldiers had recently claimed exemption from service in the army, on the ground that, they had been enlisted in one county and attested in another, the present Act re quiring that a seldier must be attested by a magistrate, either in the same district, or acting for that district in which - he had enlisted. It appeared that these soldiers had been enlisted in one county and attested in another ; it was discovered that the en listment was in point of fact not legal, and the con sequence was their immediate discharge. It also appeared that. there were a great number, no less, in fact, that! 5,090 or 6,000 Men in the same position ; 400 out of 1,500 of the Grenatiier Guards were similarly cir cumstanced. Now, he wished to ask the Right .Hon. Gentleman. the Secretary. at-War what was the course which the Government intended to pursue with respect to the present impethct Act, and whether; it would not be desirable to confirm all those. eniistmet- ts ?—(Hear, hear.) He understood that another course had been suggested, which was -to compel those men who had taken 'advantage 01 the clause to refund the money which they had receivei on their enlistment. Under the present, law he believed that a person who had served twenty-one years in the army was entitled to a pension, and some of" those men had become very muclealarmedi but the Government should (although he did not believe ttiey would) take advantage of the present defective lew. Those men had already ssrved ten, and in some cases fifteen years, and they were ahead that all that period of service would be leer, in consequence of their having been enlisted in one county and attested in another. Ile was quite sure that the Government were prepared to set all things square On the best plan possible, which he iMr. Duncotobe) bslieved would be by bringitt iu a short Bta. ft vets quite clear that soinething should be done for the sake of those • men who had :Arcady failliftilly served a great uumher of years in the service of their country. Mr. S. II E '..IER I' (who spike in a very indistinct our) was utelerstood to say it was perfectly true that tlur rig the last feW days the ettention of the Govern msnt had. been called to the subject, as many - had claimed exemption on the group i stated, but they were not aware that the ntimeer ass es great as the Hoe. Member stated. • The subject was of very great import ance, arid wits under the consideration of the Govern ment. On a future day he should be able to state what were their intentions on the-subject. FAMINE IN IRELAND=FEVER HOSPITALS. Mr. SMITE! O'BRIEN inquired whether it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the second reading of the for erecting fetter hospitals in - Ire land .o-night ? • Sir J. GRAHAM (who also spoke in a low tone) was understood to say that he had hoped that the second. reading of the Bill might be taken before 12 o'clock to- night,—(Hear, hear.) But be feared that the continued opposition to the Government measures, With respkt. to the import duties, would, • prevent that consummation. The Government were very, anxious, to proceed with the Bill without loss of time, but it entirely depended on Ron. Members 'whether the Bill was passed in a short while," or in the course of a few weeks.--(Hear, hear.) Mr. S. O'BRIEN said, his object in asking the question was not to obstruct the progress oftheßill by discussing its provisions at any length, but simply that an opportunity might be afforded 'him, on its second reading, to call the attention of the House to several documents which he had received from Ireland since he last addressed them, describing the progress and alarming increase of .the disease in the potato crop, which showed that the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Wakley) - was cor'- reet in saying that the Irish people required food instead of physic at die present moment. • Mr. P. SCROPE considered that no time ought e to be lest in provding food for time people of Ireland in the pre sent emergency, and that food and notphy sic was required. He thought that the chief object of the poor. Jaw of Ire land was to save the people :from the effect of famine and coesequent pestilence. Now, what he. wished to ssk the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Home Dspertment (Sir J. Graham) was, whether the Govern . - meta had provided any measures for limiting the distress wh ;eh the pit or in Ireland were suffering previous to finish . ing he discussisin of the Government meaeure ? lie thought this was desirable, because his impression certainly was, that the poor of Tralee required food rather than physic. In Esgland there were previsions made under the poor law for sick hospitals ; but he thought that a better plan might be alloptsd by preventiug the sickness Str J. tIRAH AM said that nothing hail resen spared be the Government to provide for such a contingency as ties Honoureble Gentleman had alluded to. lie hoped that the flint. Gentleman would net fail to make this mattsr the substance' of a substantive teethe!, for Iv, qaPStiOn could . certainly be more important than the one he had brought before the House. Now, before ' any alteration could take 'thee in the poor-law of Ireland, several subjects must he discussed which had a eeferenee to its. prinei pies ; and he hoped that when that suject, came before Howie, the Honourable Gentleman would net fail to repeat his question to the House. In the meat:- tin e fie might esstire the Hone uruble Gentleman of the Meese that the Government had taken evert measure which had been suggested to their minds for the relief of the distress in Ireland the nature of those measures he should be most happy to • state to the _ House when the proper time, elem. -r obtaining AIM sanction of Parliameut for rep ricd: g these Acts authoritative. In the mean time they were me‘sare that rice -Ministry were responsible, but were quite eon ideto. jue. ife teeir preeeeemies in this mattes. J'lt•.'l3u 1 , ;•w ::s s lad to hear that the. Government had taked . this. wetter into their consideration, but he trusted they wouid net be so ready te give food without its ikLg armed,. for that he - did- . not - think would be TEI E SIJ N, at al n ise anal he must pretest - against, any meesure. the' el e led ha ,e the effect of rendelieg the whole c f (he people of I; eland paupers. - Mr, O'CONNELL—That is just exactly what the people of Ireland require. Sir J. GRAHAM—The anxiety of the-Government had been directed in the first. instance to pro- vide works upon which the people might labour for the purchase of food, and thus obtain an independent subsistence. But where from the nature of • the country, or trout the position of Its inhabitants, it would be too long to wait until this labour obtained its return, facilities had -been provided which would enable the people to purchase food - before the wages were due, but this was only where diStress was urgent and imminent. ! Mr.o'CONNELL— That is exactly what the Irish Members wish and what the Irish people want. Mr. WAKLEY—The Government . (night to remem ber that wages could not relieve a ant* until they had been earned ; and it was the'want of food which occa sioned famine and pestilence. Now, he wished to know why the Irish and the English labourer were trt ated in a different way under the same Government ? Now, under the pc or-law in this country, if any number :of the labouring population fell into 'sick ness and distress, a maintenance and all requisite necessaries were . provided for them at once. If a poor man were to die of starvation in this country, after having made application for relief to the proper 1 officers appointed to administer it, of what offence would those officers be guilty at law ? Why, if they had a ithheld the relief they would he guilty of the crime of murder ; but in Ireland it appeared that hundreds and thousands of destitute people might die of starvation, without any parties being answerable for it. He was not astonished that Irish - Members could not be quiet under such circumstances. If he were an Irish Member, there should be no peace in 'an English Parliament while such a state of things lasted in Irelai d, and so far from condemning the spirit evinced the other night . by - the lion. Member for Limerick, he admired the course the Hon. Member took upon that occasion. It was now apparent from the official returns, that throughout Ireland the most dread ful distress prevailed •, and from whom did this in formation come ? Why, it had come from the medicel officers of the various poor-law diStricts in Ireland, vidio bad opportunities not only of obtaining information from the infirmaries and dispen• series in the county, but :were well acquainted with the state of the poor in the various districts in which they practised. Now the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Govern- Hn stood better a ith the people of England in re spect of this subject than any other Member of the Howe. In the first week of November, foreseeing what was likely to arise, what did the Right Hon. Baronet propose ? Why he proposed that the ports of the country Should be opened ; and because he could not carry such a proposal he resigned his office-in the Go vernment. Stich conduct was in the highest degree com mendable, and he fur one envied the feelings the Right Honourable Bassinet must experience. at that moment. The public expected that when the Noble Lord the Member for - the city of London had an opportunity of forinieg an Administration, he would have clone so; and would have acted upon the principles* hich he propounded iu his letter to, his constituents Instead, however,'of doing so, after some petty squabble, the NobleT Lord abandoned the prospect of 'forming an Administration, and the predictions which the Bight lion. Bari net made at the close of the last ear had since been fulfilled. Now, lie should like to ask the Hon. an Learned Recorder for Dublin, whether he was satisfied that the ace -nuts with regard to the- deplorable con dition of the people Of Ireland the Right Hon. Baronet had given to the time were not xaggerated.—(Hear.) He should propeSe that the prior law shoul.d be at once amended in prefi retice to their passing any fever Bills. If that were not done, or if it were not distinctly stated eh), a different rule of conduct was to be observed by the Imperial Pat !lament, to the poor of the one country and of the other ; until that statement were made, he for one (although he acknowledged that what the Government was doing with respect to supelying the Irish poor with fever hospi a's was very right and proper), t,..ught that one paramount duty was being neglected, namely, that the law should be made to provale for the poor of Ireland. - It was admitted by nearly every. one who had furnished these statistics that the cause of fever was to belfound in the deficiency of food or in the bad quality of it. He : had stated on a •pevious night that prevention was better than cure, and he considered it the Government's bounden duty to adopt such measures as would for the time coming render the sister country less; liable to the visitations of famine and consequently of fever. Sir ROBERT PEEL hoed that the House would • not get up a debate which must necessarily postpone the consideration of the meaeure, which had been agreed 'upon as to occupy their aaention for the whole of that evening. The tariff had provided for the remission of duty on most of the articles of sub sistence as soon as it had received the sanction of the House; and when the resolutions which he had bad the honour of - proposing to the House should be reported, an order would be made for an immediate reduction Of the corn in bond to the terms of the tariffs He would remind the Hon. Members that the more haste that was used to pass this measure, the sooner would they be able to supply the poorer of of her Majesty's subjects in that country with food, arid therefore it was that he deprecated any debate which could in any degree interfere with the passing of these resolutions. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wak ley) would remember the difficulty which had been ex perienced by the Noble Lord opposite in passing his Irish Poor-law Bill, on account of the many qualifica tions and tests of distress which that Bill proposed, and many of those who he believed felt the deepest interest in the welfare of Ireland, offered that measure their most strenuous opposition, thinking, as they did, that, such an Act was calculated to lower the condition of the Irish people. He would strongly advise the House • not to lay down any specific rules on the subject of dis t tress, or the mode in which relief should be adminis tered., : They might depend on it that if they attempted to apply a general principle for the relief of distress, they would find its working utterly impossible. Why in the ease of a district in which were many rich landed proprietors living together, Government surely had a perfect right to call upon them to co-operate, but on the other hand, in remote and in poor districts, it would be ,bsolutely necessary for Government to have the power of granting partial relief. He did not think that they should be burdened with qualifications. Let the House trust to the Government, in order to defeat those' who ' might he inclined to take advantage of these qualications. . He-trusted that the Parliament would look at the ques den in this light, and allow the Government to come down to this House and ask for a dis - crctionary power. (Hear, hear.) This :was. a Scourse which had been pursued oh former occasions, and thobeneficiel results that followed fully justified it.—(Hear.) In*s'act it was a matter which recreired' so much tact and local knowledee that to lay 'down any le gislative measure upoei the subject would be to set a very . . - dangerous precede n t.—( Bear," hear .), T ut aboie all he would beg of the Eton. Member to bear in mind the fact that the postponement of this measure would have the most injurious tif,ets upon the demand and the supply of food.—(Hear. hear.) . , . Chiptain JONES, amid cries of "Oh, oh," said he was .not going to make a speech. He merely meant to say, that if the House imagined that the people of Ireland were in that state of distress that had been . .represented, he begged to say he did not • believe it %vita so. When he left Ireland in -January last he. was. aware that the nura her of parsons in the poor-house was considerably smaller than it was before,' and he was certain that it was this 5 - e r fully five per cent. under shat it was last year. Mr. SAIITH O'BRIEN said he could not understand how the impt , rtation of butterfrom Holtand,or theimporte• :ion of bacon fraire America, or the postponement of those importations could affect the question before the House, respecting the distressed state of the people of Ireland. He did• not intend to offer any ebservations to the. House upon the questions • now before •it ; but he would enter his, protest against it being said that the consideration of the tariff by this House was - a matter of greater im portance than the present state of Ireland. Lord G.'BENTINCK — (Amid cries of " Oh ! oh.") Said he was not going to address observations to House upon thts question ; but he. would say that it was most gratifying' to, him to observe that an almost total abolition of the duty upon auctions and glass was proposed. The proposed reduction upon these items amounted to over 52J3001., which he was much pleased to hear. The duty that had-been received upon 'auctions and upon glass amounted to over o which 600,0001, was paid upon glass, and 300,0001.- upon auctions.. But 'the question he now had to ask had reference to: the further consideration •of the reduction of the customs . dutiesit was this, whe ther similar results had follow(d from the reductions that.had taken place in the redifetions of the custom's duties between the year 1842 and the present time? and also whether any reductions in the salaries of the offi cers of the customs had taken place in pruportiou? Sir R. PEEL stated, in reply, that perhaps the House would recollect, when he proposed the total reduction of the auction and glass duties, he gave as a reason for such prudent reduction, not only the immense advantage to be derived from the non-interference of the . Excise with these articles, but also the encouragemeW certain to be given to the full scope of the exertions of all persons engaged in the mannfacture of glass.—(Hear,) His Noble Friend had asked him also if there had been a concurrent reduction in the number, and amount of salaries of Custom-house Officers, since the abolition of duty on auctions and glass. Now by was bound to tell his Noble Friend that there had not been than corresponding ndeetien, nor was it 'possible that there could as yet be any such reduction.—(Hear.) The entries were required for two prposes. They vier, requited. for statistical •purposes, - and were found 'of great - importance.. en - account._ of the knowledee they furnished of the quantity •of foreign goods" brought, into • country. When, in 1842, it vests .said GoVerriment could not ascertain the amount of feud brought into the country under the traiff th,en propOsed, he promised that every exertion would• he mAle fast cure this object. -For this end therefore the entries at the custom-house were 'required. Another rte9ol,- whylisle eastern-no:eta survQi dance was necessary wise the taking of the precaution that, under the pretext of. being .ditty free, no goods that wsre liable to pay eustoms, were adulated ssiti,out beieg subjected to the daty. For this eurpose there was an exttolinici.e., and an entry necessary; lie admitted at once that the in : crease cb,feeepx pa greatint ! e u , b t dutyauisue trust a na l s n tor o a t bd b ee e admitted I e c q c u m a , e L t. : haa t : h p ece there increa s eof thadhe 'reduction in the customs. - The decrease in the customs hod thus reduced an increase of the. trade of.the country, 51. d had thus given _them equivalent advantages. He held in his hand an account of the shipa,with theircargoes that hal ei;Wrtal the principal ports of the United King doin durirg the last few years, in illustration of this; acid So desirous was he of affording information on this poitit,' that he would have wa ol4eotioh to -wove that the ,LUN DON, TUESDA j M.QRYING, MARCH 17, 1846. account for- every -year should-beplaced on theltible_of t h, H,,nse: He Could read the result as far as it affect ed the principal ports, showing ;hat the extension .of trade had been co•extensiv°e with the repeal of these duties. LONDON. In 1842 the ships from foreign parts that en tered the port of London, were In 1845 ... Th. , goods entered in • 1842 were In 1845 ... ... 6,379 ... 7,521 • ... 484,000 • 567,0u0 LIVERPOOL. DI 1842 the ships e.at eut*red, this port were In 1845 ... In 1842 the goods that entered were In 1845 NEWCASTLE. In 1842 the ships that entered this port were In 1842 the goods that entered a ere ... In 1845 ... ... DtTnati. In 1642 the ships that entered this port were In 1845 In 1842 the goods entered were ... ... In 1845 ... Now he would go to Scotland:— DUNDEE. In 1842 the ships that entered here were In 1845 ... ... ... • ... In 1841 the goods that entered were . In 1845 ... GLASGOW. 312 415 7,042 9,645 In 1842 the ships that entered this Fort were 280 In 1845 ... ... ... 418 In 1842 th , goods that entered were ... 212,000 In 1845 ... ... 307,000 This showed the great increase which had taken place in the foreign trade of the country in the three years since the passing of the Act ta1842, compared with what it hat been .previously, • MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. Messengers from the Lords brought down certain Bids. After some delay, CUSTOMS AND CORN IMPORTATION. The House then proceeded with the further considera tion of the report as to the Customs and Corn Impor 'tation. Oe the question of the reduction - of the duty on hops, Mr. PLUMPTRE wished to call the attention of the' House to the effect that the measures of the Government would have upon the hop-growers of Kent, Sussex, and 'orcester. • They considered that a protective duty of 255. per cwt., as proposed, would do the greatest injury to the home grower. Those accputinted with the growth of hops must know that 'some time was required to bring plantations into a' peeper , state for their growth. This delay was attended with expense, as buildings had to be erected for drying them. Between 20,000 or. 30.000 acres were occupied in the growth of hops.in Kent &one. He could not speak of the extent to which -they were grown in other counties, but he knew that those plantations gave em ployment to great numbers of men, and their wives and children, 'who were paid on the average 8L per acre more than those employed on arable lands. But if they allowed the importation of foreign hops, great num bers •would be thrown out of employment, and large tracts of land in Kent and other counties, in which hops were now grown, would be turn, d into arable land. The hop grower considered that if the preient duty of 455. was to be reduced, -that the Excise duties which they were compelled to pay must be remitted, because, if they reduced the duty to 25s per cwt., and retained the Excise duty, then they would be compelled to discharge their workpeople, and the vast sums of money which they h,d eiperided in the cultivation of the article would be lost. The hop growers of East Kent obtained a better price for their hops than those of Sus sex, who would, therefore, be, more seriously affected than the former. He therefore earnestly entreated the Government to give the subject further consideration. There were ten pounds paid on an acre of hops to the labourer alone who worked upon it. If they were to put an end to the hop plantations by this reduction of du y, it would throw a great many persons out of em ployment who had no - other means of gaining a living. There was another point to which he would advert. and that was, that as the proposed reduction would. injure the grower. of hops, her Majesty's Ministers would - reduce the present excise duty. Sir R. PEEL did tot know that he could add any thing to what he had said to the Honourable. Member for Sussex. When the duty on hops was reduced at a former period, it was then said that the reduction would materially diminish the growth in this country. The United States grew hops, and they were an article which did not benefit by a long voyage, and this country would only have to compete with America in a very small de gree. Considering the small amount the Americans would import into this country, and the great expense of the long voyage, he did hot consider there wag -any in= jury to be apprehended. .He could add nothing more to what had been already said, but with great respect for his Noble Friend he- could not_ consent to . the reduction of the excise duty on lonis e Mr. .FULLER said that the repeal of the corn-laws was bad enough, but to take off the duty on hops wonld be still worse. The Government ought to repel the malt duty which pressed on the industrious classes,- and was highly injurious .to the agricultural interest ; but whether they did or not, he - wholly concurred in the opinion that that tax could not endure one single year after the repeal of the corn-laws. Colonel Al.J.,TEN.thtmght it was unnecessary to put English hop growers in competition with the: American hop-growers. He'had been informed, by a gentleman engaged in the cultivation of hops, that if the Govern ment would allow of a sufficiently low . eltity to let in foreign hops, he would send over his own cultivators, and export hops from that country into Eagland. Mr. KNIGH as a Member fora hop-growing county, could not allow the proposed reduction of the duty to pass without comment. It' appeared to him that any relaxation in the duty would distress the English'grower very much, because he paid the duty before the hops were dry, while the foreign grower would pay the duty only on the hops that were already dried and sorted. He understood that hops imported from Belgium had been offered in the river at 21, 25. per cwt., but they were excluded from being brought in; owing to the duty being 41 4s. per cwt. If, however, the proposed duty had been in force, 'these hops would have been brought in to the great detriment of the English grower. He found that the avera ge price of hops had been 5 1 . 9 s. 2 d. This was not a very high pri ce ,. b u t, he would argue, 'that if fori.ign'lMPs could be brought into the river at '2l; 2s. the addition of the proposed duty making. 4/. 7S. per cwt., this price would be far under what the Eng lish hop-grower had been able to accomplish, or never would be able to • accomplish, The con sequence would be that a very large 'proportion ! of the hop land would be 'thrown out of cultivation, and' many labourers would- be • compelled to give up their e mployment. Supposin g the hop grounds to be broken, up—and such he was assured would be the case--ewhat would become of-these unfortunate people ? They must become burdens on- their 'parishes, iu the same way as when any branch of. trade was suddenly given up in a manufacturing town. Its' the hop districts the wages of the labourer were generally very good, much superior to the wages . given to any other class of agricultural labourers. The hop grOunds were perfect gardens, and he was much in hop es , before the preseat free-trade measures of the Government were introduced, that the whole .of. England, with proper attention, would have become one large garden. He sincerely hoped the Right Honourable Baronet would not reduce the price so low as to prevent the Eegl:sh hop growers from culti vating the plant. The Right Honourable Gentleman had dsignated the hoparatie as a eambling speculation. It was to a certain - extent a speculation, because :the value of the crops could never be ascertained before hand, and it was perfectly true that none but men of 'capital could embark the trade, so that they could season, but the real question was, shill we ru in t hose men be prepared to bear .11p or shall we not ? Another consideration was , that in the hop districts upwards of a million and a half y ards of canvas cloth were consumed for t he p ur p ose of against the exigency o f a bad making bags, and ten thousand tons of coals were an nually . used in order to kiln dry, and clean the hops. The censumption of canvas and coals must neceasssrily be diminished if the hop trade is destroyed. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet- would remove altogether the excise duty on hops, if foreign hops were to be admitted at a reduced duty. If the Right Hon. Gentleman wanted to give the poor man cheap beer, let him take off the duty on malt, and he would have the p ower e ntirely in his own hands. Mr. Alderman IIUMPHERY said the hops were sold as soon' as they• were grown, and the merchant bought them generally at 'a - high price before the new crops were sown. lie did not think there was any r'eas'on to fear that liops - grown in America would com pete with those that were grown in Kent: • . Mr..HOPE observed that s e a the cultivation of hops boP growers eoithe et y -e % re er n e o t t r ,. a rt° d r ers The same care and attention that procure d a g ood c ' r o e r ve a rses which attended pewsear well m p a e oe i: speaking, uncertainn cultivators.g,' cu l iv a s t pG o e r ec s ui olearf speculation. The one year, would not insure a similar res ult on. the follow ing year. Hop profitable year in a bed season. The English, growers depend e d on the surplus that atten ded their fa v ourable years. Hop ,;rowers growers , without a capital, were not able to stand a order to enable looked t h t to them the to meets u r p l t u h s e run of bad season s ; but the hop grower, who had a capital, was able. to lay up his harvest in a plentiful season, and sell it at a fair price in a scare, one, to enable him to meet its deficiencies. But, with free trade in hope, such a course would be no longer open to him • he would be obliged to sell, no matter at what sacrifice 4 This he thought established the case for protection-- waving, for the time being, the peculiar difficulties at tendeat on the cultivation of the hop. • But when they remembered that it payed the enormous excise duty of two-pence per pound, and when they -considered the 'great uncertainty of the produce—the grower ever de pending on the superflaity of one season to enable him to meet the deficiency of the next—surely they could not. but reckon it et very great hardship to cliininish the pro tection upon this plant in the least particular.—(Hear, hear.) _For hs own part he considered the. Excise duty as the greatest evil inthcted on the hop culti vlttor, and if aidled a free trade''!:o hops, let them fir t remove the dutee—(Lond• cheers.) lie understood that at the very present moment a merchant gave a large order for American hops, which he would be able to bring into the market at a much cheaper rat( than thoscof home growth, and he was 'informed that the cargo was at present at Lloyd's.--(H ea r, hear.) -• In the part of the country where he lived land let at ten shillings an ac re, and the price of the agricultural lab Curer was twelve shillings a week all the year round —(Hear, hear.) —for in winter they were employed in cutting wood to prepare for the harvest ; and during the five or six weeks that the latter lasted the wages were a great' deal more, not - taking into account that every one.of a whole family Wete employed, e from the youngest to. the eldest. Let them . tak.o protection from. cite Oop-greiTer, tad the reodt would be that the land_would be thrown ont of cultivation, and these ad vantases would be cast away. But on the contrary, - let them remove the excise duty, and then the growth of hops would be followed as a lucrative trade, and' not in the spirit of gambling. They ought to remember that hops were of perrennial growth, and that once planted they must be t eated as trees ; he, therefore, considered the', under all these circumstances, the Government should be exceedingly cautious heft re they would entirely destroy a produce—productive of such advantages to the labourers employed upon the soil where it grew; and considering that it paid such ad enormous duty to the excise, in the same proportion did it demand en increased amount of protection. Mr. H. FREWEN said that the Right Hon. Baronet had alluded to the great fortunes amassed by hop growers. Now the fact was, that although many hop growers had made a great deal of money, it would be found that the contrary was the case with a large majo rity. In England, wherever sufficient protection was afforded, the manufacturer was sure to reduce the amount of his profits to the lowest possible amount. In his opinion, if all the hop gardens in England had been in the hands of one man for the last ten, twenty, or twenty-five years, he would have infallibly lost money.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Southwark had alluded to the year 1817, as corroborative of his statements, but that was admittedly a 'Very extraordinary year, and ought not, therefore, to be quoted as a precedent. He would assure the House that the hop-growers generally looked on the present measure as one seriously destructive of their interests. He would not have made these obser vations were it not that he considered himself bound to answer the argument of the Hon. Gentleman. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was ex ceedingly pleased by the statements made by the last speaker. He had told them that the system of piotec thin had the effect of rendering the growth of hops a losing concern. Could there be any argument stronger in favour of its abolition than the fact that under the ab soarte system of prOteetion, persons of small capital en gaged in the growth of hops were, in the long run, al most always losers.—(Hear, hear.) But when they talked of a free trade iu hops, they must remembr that the Government has not put the foreign trader on an equal footing with the home merchant—on the former they had imposed a double duty. He would ask them, was it fair that an article of such necessity should vary in its price from Si. to 381. per cwt. ? or should the excise, for the sake of maintaining a protection, lost. 220,000 L a year of revenue ? The Hon. Gentleman, when he stated that the duty should be paid by the pro ducer before the hops quitted the roast-house, stated what was not the fact—the duty was nut paid until several months after—and he was often not called upon to pay for a considerable time after he had sold the crop. Lord G. BENTINCK said that there had been a great deal of grumbling with respect to the gambling hops were likely to produce, but very little of the same spirit was manifested with reference to the gambling really going on in railways at the present moment. He considered that no trade ought to be put down in this country, because gamblers chose to bet upon the honest efforts of patient industry.—(Cheers.) He apprehended that the hop growers were not the gamblers--.(Hear)—and therefore he considered there never was a more flimsy objection against any measure. than that made by his Right Hon. Friend the First Loret of the Treasury.—(Hear, hear.) The greatest proof of the advantage arising from the abolitiOn of excise duties, was' the fact that they had abolished the excise duties on auctions, amounting to 900,0001., avid they had saved 52,6321. in revenue, and 450,0001. in salaries to excise officers. They ought to follow the suggestion of . the* Hon. Member .for Southwark, in permitting the ,bop=' grower to bond his hops. A Gentleman from Kentwall assured him (Lord nentinck) that under the regulation of tLe excise, he paid in 1836, 18s.8d. a hundred weight on 15} tons, and the year being a plentiful o'ne, he held over his store, which he was eventually obliged to sell for 16s. a cwt. The Chancellor of the Exche .quer said that in 1817 hops were 381. a cwt., but what did he tell you ? That he hunted all Europe over, and no hops were to be found.. Why, what did that prose? Nothing but that Providence visited every 'other country with the same blight which had fallen upon' this. But he would. ask them, supposing they threw the hop gardens out ..of cultiva tion what would they do' with the Tithe Commutation Act, He understood that the same land which as weak soil paid 7s. an acre, as hop land paid 295: It would at least take seven years to remedy that evil. As the forms of the House prevented him from propos ing any intermediate duty, he wished to prOtest against the support he would give that resolution,.as being in dicative of his opinions. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, The House then divided; when the numbers were— For omitting the item 44 For retaining it 9l Majority The next article was boots and shoes Mr. KNIGH suid, with regard to boots and shoes, he had to state that since the proposal of the reduction one house in London, which paid no less than 5001. a week in wages, had shifted its establishment to Ostend. This firm was in the habit of manufacturing and export ing an immense number of boots and shoes. He very much feared that many other interests affected by the tariff would be similarly circumstanced, and would be obliged to adopt a similar course. Sir G. CLERK said that in 1842 there had been a. reduction in, the articles of boots and shoes of 17s. This was a large amount of duty on an article the original value of which was only is. The reduction then made, brought the duty down to 7s. 6d., .and it was now pro posed to make it 55., which was only 20s. per cent. ou an article which could be smuggled with the greatest faci lity. The consequence of suppressing smuggling by decreasing the duty was the means of increasing the home trade : in this article. They .teed not, therefore, fear foreign competition. The reduction proposed would still afford ample protection to those employed at home in this department of trade. .. The item was then agreed to. . On the reduction on straw-plait being proposed, Mr. REPTON regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed any reduction in the duties on foreign straw, and he doubted very much whether, if passed into a law, it would he productive of good. In the counties of Hertford, Buckingham, Bedford, and Essex, there were from 40,000 to 50,000 individuals employed in plaiting straw. They manufactured it at their own homes, and many of the persons so engaged were chil dren and young girls. The grass'out of which the plait was made grew in Tuscany, in Italy, and between Pisa and Florence ; and there were three or four kinds of plait used, which were of different qualities. Much had been said by the Right Hon. Baronet about promoting the welfare and morality of the industrious classes, but he (Mr; Repton) doubted very much whether this re duction, if carried into effect, would contribute to im prove those who were dependent on this department of industry. If the reduction took place, the quantity of plait which would be introduced into the country would be very great. Ile did not wish, however, to press the matter to a division, but he could' not allow the item to pass without making his protest against the reduction. The item was then agreed to. The next item proposed was the reduction on silk. Mr. BANKES would propose to omit this as well as a number of items of the same nature, of which it was proposed to reduce the duty to a large extent. In doing so he would take the liberty of referring to a challenge which had been made some time since by the Right Hon. Baronet, who challenged any one to show that any disadvantage or deterioration had resulted to any de partment since the reduction of duty which had taken place on the articles affected by the last change in the tariff: The Right Hon. Baronet undertook to say that no such deterioration had taken place, He (Mr. Bankes) would have no hesitation in accepting that challenge, and though he had no practical knowledge or experience 4,11 this subject, nor had received any instructions upon it from his constituents (who were nevertheless inter restest in it), yet he had an authority, to rely upon which could not be disputed, that the reduction of the duty on this article had been productive of any thing but good to those engaged in the manufacture in this country. So far from the reductions which had been made by Mr. Huskisson, benefiting the trade, they had the effect of materially injuring it. This had been urged upon Parliament with such forcible reasoning that the weight of it could not be resisted. Accordingly, in 1832, a Committee was appointed fir the purpose of investi gating the subject. There were 32 Members of the House appointed on that Committee, and of these seven only were Members of the House now. The Right Hon. Baronet was among the number, and he had to state that the Right Hen. Gentleman attended the sit tings very seldom. He (Mr. Bankes) thought, if cir cumstances had enabled the Right Hon. Gentleman to attend that Committee oftener, he would not have thrown out the challenge respecting those whose trade or occu pation had been affected by his tariff. Had he attended, he could not entertain such opinions as he did, influenced as ho would have been by the weight of evidence given before that Committee. It commenced its sittings early in the month of March, and had been occupied most as siduously for a long time afterwards in investigating the subject. The Hon. Member for Montrose had been in constant attendance, as he always was, when the public service required his labours. The terms on which the House had agreed to appoint that Committee were— " That a Select Committee should be appointed to in quire into the state of the silk trade, and to see what effect the change made in the tariff in 1824 had upon it ; also to inquire what measures might be adopted compa tible with the interests of the public to check smuggling, and to report their observations on those matters to the House." That Committee sat for five months, and only closed its labours when Parliament concluded its sit tings. It sat, therefore, from the Ist of March to.tho 2nd of August. Before they dissclved, they reported to the House that they regretted they were unable to draw up a general report on the, several matters that had been submitted to them ; that the extent of the subject and the number of witnesses who were examine:l, and who still remained for examination, prevented them from doing more than laying before the Home the evidence which they had taken. : With the impressions which he entertained in consequence of that evidence, he would, had he been a anember of the next Parliament, have moved for the re-appointment of that Committee.. He had not, however, been a member of the next Parliament, nor bad he sat in the /louse far several years afterwards. Had this been the case it would not have been his (Mr. Banked') fault if the opinions which he, and more than half a dozen of that Committee, had entertained on that subject were not carried into effect. On that Committee was, it ho did not mistake, Sir E. L. Bulwer. A majority of the Members had made up their minds to a d vision on resolutions, but before the division took place, an Hon. Member was sent for (Sir Henry, Parnell) who, during the previous sitting of the Com mittee, had absented himself, and by this vote (which was the casting one) were the Members who were guided by the evidence defeats d.—(Hear, hear.) That was suffi cient to. show that there had bet n no report worthy the consideirelion of the House. Ilad the report of the lion. Members who — took his. (Air. &tikes) side of the ques tioai Wen varied, it would have sholvßtiurt, to far from . -47 Mr. Huskisson's experience being favourable to that 'article breciainnerce (silk),-the-contrary was the .result. It was well known that the wages of the parties employed in this trade were high before .this change had taken place, so high, indeed, that they were enabled to enjoy much of the comforts and luxuries of life. He would prove, however, that during six years subsequent to this change, their wages had fallen -very materially. This 'he would prove by quoting the evidence taken before the Committee. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read from the evidence of Mr. William Bruwskiil, the silk and ribbon manufacturer of Spitaltields, which went to show that great distress had been occasioned by the competition which had taken piece through the reduction of the. duty on silk, .between the manufacturers of this country and foreigners.' He, the witness said, that' the demand in this country for the manufacture was good, but it was almost entirely sup plied by the foreigner. That he also-said that smuggling was carried on to a very great extent, and most materi ally injured the revenue ; and that, in fact, he could name some very Dirge firms who dealt in smuggled goods. He was asked, continued the Hon. Member, if he meant to attribute the great increase of wages, paid to persons in that trade, to the introduction of silk and ribbon from France, and his answer was emphatically in the affirma tive. Now what said the manufacturer of Coventry, who had also been examined by this Committee? He had told the Committee that the average wages of the men em ployed in the silk trade had fallen in the course of six years from 18s. to 10s. 'There was also the evidence of a Mr. Brockhurst, 'of Macclesfield ; he said that in 1824, there were 276,000 spindles, and the number of people employed in working them amounted to 10,000. In 1828 the number was reduced to 159,000, and the hands employ ed to 5,254 ; and in 1541 the spindles were reduced to 122,000, and the persons employed in working them were reduced to 3,000. In 1824 the wages of the able-bodied working mss were at 18s., and of the young and un practised men, 14s. 'The women were paid at 125., and the children at from ss. to 7s. In 1831, however, there had been a great reduction, the wages of the men had been gradually reduced till it had fallen as low as 45..6d., and the wages of the other persons were also compara tively reduced.- It was known that at this period a great increase had taken place in the poor-law rates; it had increased to 4,2911. in Macclesfield alone; and this it would be seen was the result of th e grea t m i sc hief caused by the reduction of the duty on the article of silk. Was he then to be told that the injury had only lasted for four or five years ? He had shown a case where great mischief had been done by' their experiments ; he had shown that wages had fallen from that period from 18s. to 4s. 6d., and if he had his will, he must say, they should not go:further with their experiments.- Her Majesty's Ministers might say that the great manufacturers were ready' to take their chance of the injury which the change now proposed would cause—that they were ready to show the glory of the great experiment, and to suffer in 'emnaoiewith others, the results of the measure. Well, they might be so inclined, for by their wealth they would 1 46 able to bear up for five or six years against any de pression' which might ensue; but would the poor labourer '—the poor workirg people, be able to bear up against the great reduction that would take place in their wages, and which reduction must evidently follow the passing of this measure?—(Hear, hear.) There were many or the great manufacturers in that House, and they would, no'deubt, express their opinions upon the question. He. should be glad to hear how they would get over that which applied to , the working"men. The weaver from Spitalfiehls, whose evidence he had quoted, was himself manufacturer, - and he, no doubt, had given his evidence most impartially; and what was its effect, but to show the great diminution of wages consequent upon the intro duction Of the' foreign article? It had been said by the Hon. Member for 'Montrose that the silk-weavers of Spitalfields had . no right to settle down in that place, for that it was no place for the manufacture of that article.—(Laughter.) He was sure, when the Hon. Member said so, that he did not mean it as it would read, but he felt confident that the Hon. Member did so deliver himself.—(" No, no," from Mr. HuMe.) Now- the Hon. Member bad denied it, he (Mr. Bankes) would stick to it that he did so express himself.—(Laughter.) At the very moment the change took place, they then had the means of competing - with these foreigners in the manufacture of silk and ribbons ;' and in one instance, where a seizure of silk was made, it was proved to be British manufac ture.—(Hear.) It might be urged that persons employed in the manufacture of this article were now all em ployed, but there was this great difference, that they were not paid anything like the wages they were paid before those changes had taken place. It required no very great acquaintance with the working classes to know that they were greatly dissatisfied with having. now half the wages they got before such a reduction of duty had taken place. . It might be said that no such great teduction had taken place, and that no such injury• as he had submitted to the House would result from the changes proposed by her Majesty's Ministers a but he would read to the House the opinions of the operatives employed in the manufacturing districts. At a pablic 'meeting of the manufacturing -operatives of Manchester and Salford, a Mr. Cann was called to the chair. Now he could not account for the authenticity of the proceedings of that meeting,-but he had found it reported in a most respectable journal, and lie had no doubt on his mind of its being. perfectly accurate. The Chairman, in address ing the meeting, declared that the measure introduced by Sir Rebert Peel would be of the greatest injury to the silk trade, and he was of opinion that it should be resist d by every operative interested in the silk ma nufactures of this country. The next person who I addressed the meeting was a Mr. Bennett, and after de ploring the great injury which the measure was calcu lated to inflict upon the manufacturers' of the article in question, he said that every advance made tower is free trade always brought injury of the most serious character upon the manufacturing labourer.—(Hear, hear.) The same speaker'mentioned the names of two Hon. Members of that House, great manufacturers, as having made lare-e fortunes by continually reducing the wages of their workmen. The names of the Hon. Members were publicly given, but ho (Mr. Baulics) would not of course read them ; but the most serious charges were publicly made against those Hon: Members. In fact the manufacturers never raised the wages of the working people when food was dear. Mr.' hiuskisson had brought ruin upon many poor families .by his Mea sures, but the measure of Sir Robert Peel 'would prove a still worse measure." The next - . speaker addressed the meeting at some length and said, " that the English artizan would be easily able to compete with the French in the manufacture of silk, if their taxes were light." The next speaker was a Mr. Field, and he gave'ex pressions to sentiments . to the same effect; he lidded that "it was all very Well for Mr. Hume--(Laughter)--to advocate low wages, because hiS lady would get a silk dress or a new bonnet somewhat cheaper."— . -(Latighter.) Another meeting was held upon the same day in another town; of hand-weavers, which sentiments of a like character were expressed. Now, if' he found this language held at Manchester, was he not bound to be lieve that those who used it were in favour' of protec tion?---(Hear, ;,hear.) It "surely could not be said that what they - had stated thus openly was untrue, or that they did not really apprehend that further change would deteriorate their wages.—(Hear, hear.) No doubt those men were not men of great wealth, but it was not because , they belenged to the working classes that their statements were to be disregarded.—(Hear, hear.) Those men had felt the effect of those changes, and therefore they had given expression to what they felt.—(Hear, hear.) When he (Mr. Bankes) had been told that the Spitaltield weavers, had gone to Manchester, why then he folloWed them there, and this was the state in which he found them, and this Was the language which they held inreference to the cord-laws. He would now ask this Hoillie to look at the returns which had been made to it by the Inspec tor of factories, Mr. Saunders, in the year 1845. That [louse had the inspection of a district embracing Derby shire, Hampshire, Kent, Lancashire, Middlesex, Surrey, and York, - and a portion . of that report was to this effect :—That between the years • 1838 and 1845, the comparative increase and decrease of mills in those dis tricts, as cbmpared with his 'former inquiry, was, that in the year 1838, there were 304 cotton-mills in the dis trict, and in the year.lB4s, there were 361, showing an increase of 59' mills in that tin e lB 45 Of woothere w l mil em ls there were, in 18 3 8, 566 m ills ; n , , olwi3rsi , 3 showin g n s s i increase ; e in n f 89 . 1845, 0 4 f 38, worsted showing mills a n there increase we of in 8 50 mills in that trade. There were 59 flax mills in 1838, and 65 in 1815, showing nn increase of 6. But then, came the silk trade. Of those, there were in the whole district 69 mills in 1838, while in the year 1845 'there were only 63, showing a decrease of 6, which proved the important fact that the silk trade was the onle one which had 'decrees e.l during than period.—(Hear. hear.) The same returns exhibited the number of children employed at 13,000, only 800 of w v a . o h ni were employed in the silk trade in Lancashire. g th i e r b s e . i e l n k m e x i ) t . n th u e f n ac h tu e r iv e - r (T , l w d h s n a3 h , , a t d ha b t ee h n e' i d ., ! p d o n rt o: d fi . a n s h t a n i st n the kingdom. It was true he pelled from London, had established themselves ia any other part of might be met by_ the Honourable Gentleman the Vice: President of the Board of Trade with the answer, that those persons were now mixed up with. the various other branchea of the silk trade ; but he (Mr. Bankes) begged again to remind the Right Honourable Gentleman thai it was the question of wages exclusively to wh;ch was now applying himself.---(Hear, hear.) He would now direct the attention of the House to .another paper,' which had been: largely circulated, and was rather an ingenious one. He would only read an extract here and there ; one of the statements of the author was, that "the wages of the silk weavers were now kss than halt of that paid them in the would 1824." He (Mr. Banker) hoped that those wages would be found to be higher elsewhere. The author then went on to say, that the grass value of silk goods eaported in that year from England, would be found to 'be less by 2,000,000 ot 3,000,000 than they werein the year 1824. The author then went into detail, and he stated that the export of to France from England consisted chiefly of coarse yarn or twist; while that which was imported from Fiance to this country congaed ot theory finest fabrics. The value of the article exported from England to France did net exceed 7s. 6d. per paund, while that which was' imported from France to England, exeeeded• in value ee s . per lb,, and that lie - conceived sufficiently marked the differeace in the value. Then the author went Oirtt:i state that the total gross valu.e . oe silk goods exportee from England to France, in the year 1814, did not ex ceed 16 . 9,6901, while the gross value of the . same article' imported front France to. England, exceeded 1,000,0001. sterling. New, not having a practical knowledge of this trade,. he (Mr. Baakes) would notonter much further upon the subject, but he would direct the earnest atten tion of the House to these facts, arid trusted they : would have the effect Of preventing further experi ments. It was quite true that his constituents were not. a very large body. But when, upon a former occa sion, urged their case upon the consideration of the. .Right Hon. Baronet, he (Sir R. Peel) adnaittal that the county which he (Mr. Bankes) represented bad suffered much by :reason of the depregiatioa e of Van silk trade, 'caused by. the 414%1049u of Waal . and ;ga1:40401.y. But he (Mr. Bankes) begged to assure the Bight Hon. Baronet that the manufacture of throwing silk could be quite as well and as profitablf Carried on' by the use of water power as that of steam. Therefore it was not the fact that the loss sustained by his constituency heel been owing to the introduction of steam. In the co unty which he represented there were at one th.aa 400 silk-throwing mills, which gave employment: to a great number of peopleebut now there was only one, and the number of hands employed and the wages they had received had . both been greatly reduced ; and the result was, of course, that a great number had been thrown out of work. Those then were his reasons for having adopted the course he had taken in reference to the article of silk. He did not wish to mix up this item with any other porti es of the tariff, lest he might dee mage the cause which he now pleaded. There were many other items to which his observations would equally apply, but he now wished to separate them en tirely, and, vote as the House would in reference to the subject of Ole repeal of the corn-laws, he trusted that this subject would not influence their votes upon this.—(Hear.) The silk weavers had already suffered much in consequence of experiments. He had quoted the authority cf a Committee of this House, which, he trusted, would have some weight. It was true' that that Committee had reported unfavourably, but he had also shown that that vote would have been otherwise but for.the fact of one of the Members of the Committee having been brought in to give a rote against it, though he had never attended the pro ' ceedings of the Committee at all.—(Hear, hear.) He hail no doubt but that the Vice-president of the Board cf . Trade woUld'endeavour to show the House that the silk trade was now a flourishing one in this Country. But he would say, if they were se, let them be so.— (Cheers.) In conclusion, he (Mr. Bankes) begged to say he would divide the House upon this point as it .mooted many other articles, all of which wore in some measure connected with the article of silk.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BUIS (who was quite inaudible in the gallery) was understood. to say that he felt certain he was doing but justice to the good, feelings of Honourable Gentle men of polite, when he gave them full crelit for the sincerity of ..their statements.—(Hear.) But the ques tion then was not considered; they turned to the f nesser state of the silk trade. It had been assumed that if they continued protection, the manufacturers would enjoy the same wages as they formerly did. The Hon. Gentleman who preceded him had stated that since the year 1832, the number of silk weavers at Spitalfields had vastly decreased. Now, the fact was, that in Spitalfields there were not really more than six or seven independent men of capital ; and much as had been said of French manufactures, let them but induce men of capital to em bark in the trade, and they would soon be in a position to rival France, though she grew a superior description >f silk.—(Hea,r, hear.) In fact, it might_ be said that already they were rivalling France, as the Messrs . . Bakers printed an article of calico which they imported to France. Mr. BitOta.LEIIURST would beg contradict the :onourable Gent inan in that statement. Mr. ELLIS explained, and then continued. In 1824, a reduction took place on the duty on silk ; and such was the feeling amongst the manufacturers, that they were prepared for the total abolition, after a few years, of all duty-affecting the article.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BROCKLEIIURST should say that he had really been astonished that so narrow a view should be taken of the question as had been by the Honourable Gentle man who preceeded him.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He had stated that France produced a superior sort of silk. Why was:that so ? Simply because she prohibited the exportation of the article, and confined it to herself. He had also stated that in 'Derby and other parts of Eng land, silks were abundantly manufactured. Now, in his opinion, that showed the importance of keep ing the silk trade in the • country.—(Hear.) The petitioners also alleged that from 1816 up to 1824, the increase in the silk trade had been so great, that in the latter year no less than fear millions of lbs. of silk were worked up. In 1824, the silk trade was in the height of its prosperity. The amount of silk worked up in 1844 was only an increase of that in 1824 to the extent of about 10 or 15 per cent. Thus the trade had remained almost stationary, while the cotton trade had increased 300 or 400 per cent.—(Hear, hear) The pe titioners also stated that the finer branches of the silk trade had gone to the Continent, there being now 5,000 or 6,000 less looms in Spitalfields than formerly. The petitioners, therefore, prayed the House to take this trade into their most gracious consideration, and not re move the present protection afforded. These were the opinions of those engaged in the silk trade.—(Hear, • hear.) The Hon. Member then referred to the silk trade of France, showing that a great increase had taken place in the exports in that country, in comparison with this. The Right Hon. Baronet had pleased to lay on the table several returns of the trade, with the object of bearing out the change he was proposing, but he did eiot consider he bad succeeded in his object. He (Mr. Brocklehurst) would refer to those returns. The Honourable Member then went through the items referred to, endeavouring to show that up to 1824, under the protective system previously in existence, the silk trade bad gene on progressively improving, while since that period, by opening the home market to foreign silk manufacturers this country had nearly lost all the finer branches. .The French had taken from the weavers and manufacturers of the United Kingdom all the finer branches—(Hear, hear)—and the remainder bad almost remained stationary. The trade, he con side.red, ought to be looked on as a branch of luxury, and treated as such, and also for the purpose of raising a revenue. This would be a twofold benefit, raising a revenue while it gave a guarantee to those engaged its the manufacture of silk in this country. He would leave it to the Government, whether they would post pone this portion of the schedule, or enforce it, and drive the matter to a division. He would agree to 15 per cent. duty, but he must .oppose the duty proposed in the present schedule, Sir GEORGE CLERIC said that the Hon. Member for Macclesfield, at the commencement of his speech, said that he was prepared to show, in opposition to the state ments made by the Right e Hon. Baronet, that the silk trade had not only temporarily but permanently suf fered by the measure of 1824. In 1852 a Committee had sat to investigate the matter, and the Hon. Member himself was upon it. Lord Sidmouth, who then held • the situation of Vice-President of the Board of Trade, stated that Government did not entertain the slightest desire of increasing the duty fixed in 1824 nay, more, he wanted the Committee to declare that duty as much too high, and as holding out a temptation to smuggling, and he moved an addition to the original inquiry, that the former should consider what measures should be taken to discourage smuggling. True it was that several of the witnesses stated then that there was a falling off in the wages of the operatives, as compared . with an antecedent period ; and no doubt the same dis tress occurred in that trade that was prevailing in many others. He wondered that when the lion. Member re ferred to the Committee of 1843, that he did not also refer to 'the evidence taken before a Committee at a former period: The Hon. Member did not state that the desti tution which existed in 1841 did not exist to the same degree in 1816, when Spitalfields enjoyed protection, and when many families were dying of want. Petitions were then presented to the House from the silk weavers of Coventry, to inquire into the state of the silk trade there, and he (Sir G. Clerk) would venture to say that the stated distress then quite equalled that of 1832 ; for men who had been formerly in the habit of earn ing 245. and upwards per week, could only at that period (working seventeen or eighteen hours a day, or more than 100 per week), make at the most ss. 9d. The Hon. Member must admit, then, that that stated dis tress was not justly attributable to the change of sys tem, but to the fluctuations of trade. , But what was the consequence of this state of things ? That the weavers in the silk trade were exposed to every caprice of fashion ; and the evil was further augmented by the absurd regulations which prevailed with the manufac turers in the metropolis. It was impossible for mas ters to give a- higher rate than was fixed by luee pa a rt i i ) e ig u h la e r r r t a e t b e le of ; w e e n g d ee f n o o r a m m as o te re r p c a o r u t i l c d u ar intro ar tiele, neither could he 'offer a lower, consequently when led trade came on, they, not being able to alter the rate af wages, were compelled to discharge their workmen. Thus the trade being driven from Spitalfields, the mann tVeturers were compelled in self-defence to erect works at Macclesfield, Coventry, and other places. Let them look to the condition of the silk trade now. The Hon. Member for Dorsetshire admitted that for a year or two the silk trade was in a more flourish ing 'condition than it had been. Was that the reason that he objected to the question now ? If they found that in this country silk goods were not con • sidered a luxury, to be confined solely to the higher classes, but if they found that persons in the humbler sphere of life could afford to procure them, be thought it was a sufficient vindication that the trade was in a flourishing . condition. And all this was done by adopting an exactly opposite course from that of former periods. Then they had enormously high duties upon the raw materials. They fixed the operatives' rate of wages at 'a . minimum value, and thus discouraged the introduction of foreign manu factures. Under such a system it was impossible for the silk trade to flourish, and they found that from the years 1765 to 1817, during the first triennial, the silk trade had only doubled the manufacture ; whereas, now in the last triennial period they had more than trebled, leaving out the water silk and the husk, so frequently referred to by Honourable Members. They found the raw silk imnorted amounting in that period to 1,000,000, whereas now it had increased to 4,000,000, He admitted that they were unable to compete with the French in a particular description of light goods, but it must be remembered that this particular description of goods never were, nor were they ever likely to be, manufactured in this country. He believed that there was no cleat that British manufactures were quite equal in texture, quality, and ml-;orto any of the manu factures on the Continent, lot in point of gage the French manufactures surpassed the British; but if the y remote d the restrictions a Melt had 'hitherto been placed en the trade, the. British manufacturer would be able to compete with . ' the foreigner in this respeet - also. The ne - at'braisch of the subject to which he came to was that which related to wages: Now it was difficult to obtain correct information upon the 9ubject of wages, for in some case's the lebotirer was pia by the piece, while in "others Lc received a weekly salary. It was unjust to nelhe a cemearison bete een the wages of th e present day and those of twenty , years ego, for although the money wages .of the present p . t. rind were . less than those of former years it must be remembered, that with the improvements in the loom the labourer could tune out double the work now to what he could twenty years ago. The Hon. Member fer Dorsetshire had asked him to state where the silk trade had gone to since the amount of piotec-: tion had been removed. The Hon. Member bad referred' to the report of the Factory Commissioners, and re marked that he found that while woollen and cotton mills had increased, silk mills had decreased. But the Hon. gethher vias miatike4, for the removal of the restrictions gave Acttl3k impetus ,t 9 0044,tioas ;gad o- 3,285 3,900 ... 188,000 ... 226,000 908 22,000 30,000 261 307 21,700 30,219 .... 0 4 26 7% 7. uonel - , 001 ocN ao I