The Sun. — London, England, 1805-04-27 00:00:00

.11111'ER1,41, PA I.IMENT. 11OVSE'OP PEERS. . . $ pKIDAY, Arkti, z 6. MR. EltSlittnit W•b heard 41 continuation for the Respon. dent, in the Appeal Wane v. the Earl of Cassilis. The Earl of so ir roLx . toi6 to submit to their Lordships a the nature of which he had already explained to the Noble Secretary of State. He meant to move for an Account of the Bills drawn from the West Indies on the Treasury, betwren the years t7B and 15a3 ; and he declared that it was-his intention to found this Account a charge of public delinquency against the Treasury, He moved, ' That there be laid before the House an Account of the Bills 'drawn in the West Indies upon the Treasury, from the 15t December, f 798, to the tst of December, Igoe, diStinguishing the' amount of iach Bill, the' date when drawn, time o f p a y me nt, Lord HAW tits ISLI Y should not resist this Motion, though it had freiluently happened that Papers were called for with. out the Mover appearing to have any other °hied in view thatt that of gratifying an idle! curiosity. This pradice had often occasioned much inconveniense, and greatly retarded Public Business in the different Offices of Government. He was therefore of opinion, that the House ought to refuse to call for Papers, when no distind Parliamentary ground was . stated for producing them. The Earl of Se tri•oLK could not help .noticing a word which, had Mien fronl the NOble Secretary of, State. The term Ilk surely could not be meant to apply to his Motion, 'which, so far from deserving that epithet, was of very great importance, as his objet was to found upon it a charge of vublic delinquency against the TreasUry. Lord HA wttESUURY said, diet certainly he did not mean to apply that term to the Noble Earl's Motion, as he was prepared to give his assent to it.— The Account was Ordered. On the Motion of Lose C HANCILLLOK, a Committee was appeintod (to sit on Tuesday next) •to inquire into the state of Appeals and Writs of Error before the House. Adjourned to Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY, Alittlt, 26. On the Motion of Mr. R. Tuoit o-ro NI, the Speaker is. sued his Writ for this Eledion of a Member for the Borough of Bletehingly, in the room of JAS. MILNER, Esq.. deceased. On the Motion of Sir -W M. SCOTT, the Committee ON the Prize-money Agency Bill was postponed from Monday next to - the 13th of May. On the Motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, the Motion of the 7th of March last, fbr an account of the Expence incurred by carrying on State Prosecutions in Ireland, was read; after which the lion. Baronet inured, that the Return moved for be made forthwith.—Ordered. • The Hon. Baronet-also moved, that all the Papers pre. vented yesterday from the t)llke of the Chief Secretary in Ireland be printed.—Ordered. Sir joniv Awnseson•hrought in a Bill, granting Liberty and Means to make a Road underthe Thames, train Rc ther hithe to Limehunse which was read a first time. The Thames Lastage and Ballastage bill was read a second time ; and after a few words between Sir MAT THEW WHIT z RDL and Mr. G. Rost;, lespei...ting the most proper day fur its next stage, was ordered to be committed on Monday fortnight. Sir Asit l asw S. Unmoor) moved, that there be laid before the house a Copy of the Letter, dated April zz, 1805, from the Comptroll4 of the Navy to the COMIIIISSIOIKTS Of Naval Inquiry, respeeling the Eleventh Report.—Ordered. • Mr. Ca risv eit gave notice, that he should move, on Friday itext, lot a Committee to inquire into the application of the remainder of the surplus Revenue of the Isle of Man, which amounted to about 17,0001. • The Order of the Day for proceeding to ballot for a Seled Commit tee of twenty-one Members to con. eider further 'tile matter containea in the Te.rith Re. of Cie Commissioners of Naval Inquiry, hay. log been read, the Silt AKE i ordered tne Serjeant to go with 114 Mace to the Speaket's Chamber and the Court of Rt:cttests, to summon such Members as might be in thoie places to attend the House im. mrdiately. This form having been complied 'with, the names of all the Members of the House of Com.; tn-os were then called over; and each, as he felt in -6114 , put his name in writing into time Balloting., glass, which was piked on the Table. When the List of names was gone through, the SPRAKIR put the question, that a . Committee be ,appointed to inspect the names, contained tri the' glass, and make. rt: turn of, ttiventy.otte Mentbeis to form a Select Committee. Mr. Wi111132 tiAD rofic, and Staid, that it was Serrated to him th't% morning, and he held 'hen in his hand a Paper which ctinfirmed him, in the npi. nion, that lists were circulated among Members of those whom persons of the greatest authority wiilted to be chosen for the Selea. Committee. The Ho. stowable Menmer then read the following list : Lord Castlereagh, ' Mr. St. lohn, Mr. Whitbread, Mr. Foster, Minster of the Kulls, Mr. H. Lai:cents, mr. W. Windham, Sir H. Mildmay, Sir W. Seen, Mr. S. I%torriton, Mr. T. Grenville, Mr. J. Fine, Mr. Ryder, Lord Doyle, Lord G. Cavendish, Mr. Cartwright, Lord Dunin, Mr. Hawkins Brown, Lord W. Itubiell, Mr. Gunning. Mr. Loyce4ter, If it should appear from the return, Eliot those Mew. tiers whose names he read should be belated for the Committee, he tilt it iu be hisduty, though no pre. cedent should exist 1,, , r such a proceeding, to move that ;he names of borne, who were obViously objec. tionable, should be expunged from the list. If the return to which he alluded were made, the in. Iference would he easy and clear, not only to every Member in the House, but. to every man in the Country. Should he succeed in the erasure of those na m e s, he s leul.l then propose others, ,of whose impartiality no ti,ubt could be e»tertained, Mr. F.o.7(observed, that no difficulty Could stand iii tile way of Such a proceeding, for, eren in casts where t he rules of the House wete'rnost imperativei he meant EleCtion Committee», on sufficient ground, the attendance of Members WAS dispensed with. He. hoped, therefore, that tLe Same attention wotrld be paid in this instance to Members wlm might be ap.. - pointed on this occasion. litr,Litesor. presented a List of the Corn. millee to inspett the Names in the Glass,, &c. Who •weri; ordered to withdraw forthwith to the Speaker's Chamber. RID/11V said, he thought it competent to Hem. Friend (Mr..WH Pre a AD) to proceed by a Mutton on the subjed of the return of the :Committee, should it contain the names just repeat. e d. H e c o n sidered this Ss most important, .and involving the 'interest and honour of the Country. But what opinion would be entertained by the peo. ple of such a return as that' proposed, which was merely the Minister's mark, and the nomination of the Treasury. When the List was put into Mem. bers' hands, why should the Public be imposed on, dud led to believe, that the eturn was made by a Committee appointed by the R House of Commons, when, in reality, the return was made out by His Majesty's Minister ? He recolletied a ease somewhat simil4 to the present, sorne time ago, when, in consequence of Lists having been put into the M ein . bora! 'hands on rntering, by Joseph Pearson, the oor.leteper, I.e aeoeeti, that Pearson be Nought up to a wc, A .r'.,t 1,14 toiscundu4 . ; but unfortunately he was left in a minotity, Had he succeeded in the first instance, he could easily have traced the order for,the'circulatiou of those Lists to the Treasury. He must certainly say, that it was not to the credit of the House to have negatived that motion, when he offered to prove the fait. With regard to the "present question, he should recommend it so his Hon. Friend to lay the List on the Table. Mr. WiIITKREAD asked the SPEAKER, whether it would be consistent with the Rules of the Hoop to bring up the. List and laY it on'the Table, with a view to proceed on it afterwards, if necessaryi 'The SPE AKER informed the Honourable M;mher, that no 'Paper could be admitted without a Motion, founded on the matter of complaint which it may contain. Mr. WHITUR AD thee moved, " That it was a high 'breach of privilege to circulate Lists of the Nam of Members to Constittite ta). se Commit. tee." On the Mltion being put front th . e Chitir, the fiquse divided—:—Aires, 4.5--Noes Ajurity against the Motion 109. • On the re-adruission of grangers, the }-1 , ,u4e were discussing the question brought larward yesterday 'by Mr. 'Gil Er, as to THE LIBEL IN THE ORACLE. Mr. ATKINS WRIGHT spolce against the adoption of any severe measure as to the Editor of The Oracle. Although he was pettedly convinced in big own mind, as to the propriety Of supporting. the Resolutions of the House, yet his peace of mind was not at all broke in upon because his conduct, along with that of other Members, had been severely censured.. It, was well known with what rigour the Hoese had enforced their determination not to re. strain any animadversion by the.PUblie on the con:. dud - of Parliament. God forbid I said the Hon. ,Member,' that* the "PeoPle'of this Country should have any impediments thrown in their way, in dii. cussing the condud of their Representatives fairly, and freely. Most certainly, such a liberty ought to be exerciset t i in a becoming tnanncr. It was well known, that the Publishers of rapers were too apt to indulge themselves in discussing what they called Party questions. He professed to be of no Party ; but he felt as much as any man the necessity of maintaining, in all .its purity, what was called the Liberty of the Press. His own opinion in the pre. sent instance was, that the honour and dignity of Parliatent would be best maintained by passing over in silence - such trifling indiscretions. The acting otherwise, would haute no other died than to court, ienance them. Parliament • might to entertain a firmer reliance in its own reditude. Such were his sentiments un this occasion, and he hoped, that some. other Member, better acquainted with* the customs of the I T -louse; would suggest some mode by which such a dignified and independent condud might still be tigorously attended to, even in the i)r u sent case, - Air, GRAY said, that if he had conceived this matter to be of light or trivial importance, he should never have snide such a complaint. . There was nu Member in the House more unwilling plan he ,was to enter' complaints against individuals, or to. interfere with the free discussion at Public Af. fairs. Had the present paragraph been only a free comment on Public Matters, 'as the Hon, Gentle, man.. who had just spoken seemed to imply, he should not have troubled the Hotise on this ocea. sion. It was not difficult, however, to judge of the true nature and beating of this matter. He. who runs might read in the present instance, It was only yesterday he had seen it, and he still retained the same opinion he then did, ax to,its tniSchievous tendency. It could not be viewed at all in the light of a fair discussion of a public qoettion. If it did appear to the House in a contrary light, he was pertenly willing.to forbear from all further proceed. ings.. To him, however, it bore a very different aspen and chartiner. It was no discussion, it was mere invective, absolute and unqualified abuse, tending to Vilify the proceedings,_ degrade the cha. nine*, and insult• the auth o rity o f Parliament, He lamented` the necessity he was under of perform. tug such a duty, slid he would willingly have over. looked it, had he nut been convinced that it out. stripped all bounds of moderation in the candid discussion of Public Affairs. It the Hon. Member who had endeavoured to justify such a manifest in. fringement of their privileges, should think' proper toonove that the Order. be discharged,' he should not think it necessary to press his Motion any fur. The Question, which had originally been pro. posed by Mr. GREY, WAS r4fl rUt from the Chair —" That . the- Printer of the .oiade and True Briton be called to the Bar of the House." Mr. ATKINS WAIGHT Again ruse, and said, that as pitch Motions might introduce greater inconve. nience than some Members Were aware of, he should move the Order of the Day. Mr. 11 1 /NDLIAM said, he was not inclined to rem; the matter further,.if the House really appear. cat, to agree with the arguments and proposition of the Hon. Gentleman ,who had just sat down. He should wish to' know, whether that _ Hon.. Gentle. man who had jest sat down was 'dispOsed. to do that,' in regard, to his own person, which he seemed inclined to do towaidii the House Of Commons. Did he (Mr. Wilton) mean to say, that he would . clopirte every thing that coubi be said against him I Really, for his put, lie could see no reason . why Members ought to be more tender of their own charatiers, as individuals, than they should hoof the character of the Hintse of Commotis. The not be. lug equally attentive to the eh,itader of the House was sliying to the Public, " yoo may say what you please, we do not mind it." lk such was the rule, why.. not 'proclaiM it I Why: hitt, say to the writers of , Newspapers, you may trine what you choose, there will be no injury done by your misrepresen. onions ? Was it' tobe said, that, because the House had passed over a great many' instances of a similar' nature, we ought on that account to pass ovet every one I—This would be false logic. The freedom of the Press had been too long toletsted, not only to' the 4+lll of Public, but pr4ate-men--,not only to the genetal degradation of the Higher Or. &I'S of Society, but to the general corruption of the lower. The only question was, whether the in. stance now before the House . was one which went to' that excess as shoulalead them to interfere to maintain their own diznity. It' was impossible, in his opinion,. to enneeive any till'ng MDfe groAc, in. jutioua, calumnious, anti licentious, and therefore he should he, guilty of no great vindiaive principle, if he should Vote fur punishing the offender in a certain degree, ,as a caution to others. Mr. S',HERIDAN said, he was perfetitly con. vinced that there was no person more -disposed to favour the•liberty of the Press than his Honourable Friend who had brought forward this question. For his own part, he had always expressed hisitigh • approbation of that liberty to a certain extent. His Hon. Ftiend had said, that this was a para.. graph that outstript all others ; but when' it was compared with the vast variety of other patagraphs, relating to. the condOft.. of the Ministerial Party themselves, it was, mere milk and water. In fair., nest there ought to have been some notice or warn.' ing upon the subjett, as had been stated yesterday, so as not rashly to pitch upon one single paragraph as bring more severe than others, which it had been the pracliee to throw out against the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. It was a faft, that the House had not for a number of years taken notice, of that variety of paragraphs he alluded'to. As to the ale. bates of the House of Commons, it was undoubted. ly enough to say, that Parliament countenanced and' connived at the publication of them. He highly approved of the praCtice adopted in that respect, and he should think it a great public calamity, indeed if the people at large were not, by such: means, apprised of the proceedings of that House. The , Members themselves were for ever speaking 'more harshly of the conduit of each other than these paragraphs did in the public Prints,. Since they took such liberties with the charaCters of one anu. tiler, it was certainly somewhat excuseable that the Public should imitate their (the House's) example. He was adverse to instituting any prosecution against . the . person accused of this misdemeanour,. when he rccollefted what was the consequence of fCirmer ones. Here the Honourable Member ded to a Pamphlet published some time ago by a Gentleman of the name of Reeves, which statetL that the King was the foundation of the whole Consti. 'mkt) ;.that the two other branches might be lopped off; and that there would. be a good deal of tree still. On that occasion a Learned Friend of his (Mr. PLosat a) successfully defended the Pamphlet in question. In the present instance, he thought the House could not apprehend any•danger as likely to arise, should the Printer be merely called' to the Bar, anti the House be.sitisfied with' any apolOgy he might make. CIiANCELLOR of the • 'EXCHEQUER said, he was of opinion, that whenever any thing came before the House, which touched upon their privileges, they ought to take notice. of it in an impressive 'manner. He felt, however, the truth of what had .been said by an Honourable2Gentlepiart opposite, that, wherever there were abuses'or inju. rtes of the kind now under discussion, it was.cer. tainly the height of severity to pitch upon one in particular, es it fit reason to punish an individual, without some previous intimation hasing.been eit• pressed by the House of their intention to be more strid in future. As to the case alluded to . by . the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. SHiRIDAN) he had forgot to make any distindion between the Liberty of the Press and the privilege of a Trial by Jury. Mr. FOX,s4d, that he would never approve. of i t , l e te t.u H re o;is j e u i r t;bri w ii i t ie ting nan t ; a question grossbreach being b eachoi rooght privilege had been committed. It was the pradice of ano. titer Court in the Kingdom to submit any contempt of theirforms to other Courts. He . li4d not seen any thing so gross and injurious to. the dignity of the House as the paragraph in question. When the proceedings of the . House were in unison with the Administration, there was not a Paper that could dare to attack their proceedings. He thought the present one an extraoldinarycase, and the } - louse ought to thew that they will in future be watchful and vigilant. SW/T,ll thought the paragraph in question would prove to be completely harmless, as the pub. tic mind was most perfettly in unison on this OCCa. glen. Any libel on an individual was More severe than on a body in a colledive capacity, because, wheire the sense of the Public went along with their proceeding's, it defended them_ from any bad effeCts attending any libel, although sometimes more gross than the present one. lie was one who slid not wish to take any notice of such libels—but, in the present case, it was peculiaritthe duty of the House rddefeod the charader and dignity of. the SiiltAtßß, whose casting vote determined the important ques. lion. It was impossible to suppose that such ade. cision could be come to in a violent and intem, petite manner, and on that -account he certainly thought the House ought to show ita disapprobation of such a paragraph. Di.. LAWRENCE Spoke in favour' of the Mo. Lion, which was then put and carried. without Mr. Stuart being then ordered to attend at the Bar, was shewn the Paper containing the offensive matter, which he acknowledged as having been printed and published by him. He was then asked-- , g What he had to say for himself t" when he short. ly addressed the Sr a AKB It as follows: " Permit me, Sir, to assure you, that I very much regret that any part of the contents o f my P aper of yesterday should nave incurred the displeasure of this lion. House. 1r; Sir, I have expressed myself too warmly in taVOur - of Lord Melville, for 'whom shall always entertain the high. es; respeti and esteem I beg that this H on . H OUGC will view it as the unguarded language of the heart, and not a wilful intention to provoke the censure of a power ,on which our dearest rights and liberties depend. 1 intreat you, Sir, that some allowance may be made fot that freedinn of dis.. cussion of public afikirs which, for a long series of years, has been sanctioned by common usage : and that the hasty cont. position of* Newspaper may not be Considered as A deliberate design to offend this Honourable House." ' Mr, Stuart was then ordered to withdraw. Mr. GREY , said it would be necessary to move some ResolUtiOri of the House, which he should now cin, without premising it with any observation, as the House would consider the sort of apology which had been made. He then moved, "'f hat the para. graph in question is a high breach of the privileges of this fluuse." Thr iITTURNEY.GENERAL said, he certainly did not mean to objet to the proposition of the Honourable Gentleman, Although it was acknow. lag , d to be a libel, ) . et he could nu; help thinking ' - that there was too great a -degree of carpus le some to prosecute on this occasion, while they had overlooked others of greater magnitude , T here have been proceedings of Whig Clubs, in.which sa Hon. Gentleman apposite (Mr. Fox) has been I. presented to have said, that the Home of Commas afforded no security or protectiou to the Peel *, while it remained so constituted. These, and other paragraphs equally absurd end irregul ar, had been inserted in the public prints ;. and although he did not believe that the Hon. Gentleman alluded to had ever expressed himself in welt a manner, yet in no instance had that Hon. Gentleman ever thought Igo* per to call the.authors of them to account for their misdemeanour. . .. , , . . Air. FO X observed, that what he had said Sal where he never was ashamed of, and if the Fie u : c had thought proper to call on him to stat e why h e had said so, he would cert ainly have done it• ra had used similar expressions within. the Bose et well as without doors. There was no part of these speeches which, if shewn to him , he could nut do. criminate what was his and What was / 1 ". • The Motion was put and carried. k if f Mr. Mitzi, WRIGHT then Moved, that -- „er sa d" Stuart - be celled to the Bar,' reprima nded, charged.", • Mr. GREY said, he felt no objedion, if the lios te thought it to be a sufficient punishment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEVO said, he thought It really would oat be doing h i Pt i r, were he to vote - for this Motion. He 611"lu S sty fur a mode of proceeding more suitable to theilie ltst of the House. He thought t r itest Mr. S l .. tlar , l ::: i st s;s submission, p a e n e d d y if he afterwards made a I" er Id to'be committed to the custody of tibe el l" .. t ad h h A to e urmin i : s l (Mr. PITT) Motion conlisattiqubeeneeneAmend' should t w io h n i t c : l a i v h e e n h o a d o i n ,j o e d lionotibtiboa :roan:en; The Right Hon. Gentleman then moved an he negatived.o thistiettisietat recent to that purpose ; which was agreed to, after 1 immediately ordered into custody. In t 0 1 ' laid be . Mr. CANNING moved, II That there be : l' t oo. fore the House Copies of the Correspondence ''' mil' the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry and Lora' vile, Mr. 'trotter, See."—.Orticted; . . ,M. CLAUD SCOTT . , f oal Mr. Seriedttt BEST said, that it had been ' • exit red I n to 'him aka fad, that certain abuses had e x i m - ne ja regard to,the miney arising from the sale (h i i sett Neutral Ships which bed , been taken fro r L Mr. Swat and , where, with theil•Cargoes, • they were g °1 ; 1 41: oat hundred thousand pounds and upwards. .„' - bee of was kit in the possession of an Hon. ,ivi c ," l „ c a. brought by Government into this mooned' rtvyo - the House i Mr. CI;AVD Scurr) who had O . '. a ..,i e And n i ii i „ trusted with the management of that "" n , ll' remained in his hands down to the year Iv' ba t wished to know whether' or mii this was the 'and for that purpose he Moved, of th e ; Atcee —That there be laid before the House Copies °: ell to, --* of siich sates, and the time when they werugiv,e!',,ltittlt verninent, with Copies (tithe Orders given us' to' to mt. c laud Scott for thatpurp ose . ' . _Oen ° Mr, cLaupstorr ' s aid, that tile WAill°. of th ,1-. man was nearly right- as 'to the amo unt o.f r- pi t o or he had at various times received for 11 0 6 g. iota 0 Cargoes. That. money was the Bank-of England, where it remained unrall'i.j'ept and was of no manner of use to him: i r lic ,„d l a s elik. was owing to Government not having f , io d 811 what accounts to tarty the proceeds. 4‘ along lain at theif ditposal. . alla , regularly real we d, Mr. ROSE said,. that, to the best of h",,,, one y in tion, the Hon. Member had nut had an y tu en etallY hit hands fur upwards of one Mundt, a' he i f co ifed • paid in the money from time to time a s h b l du o 111 0 it. He was glad the matter . had Coln e uent jeffil House for the justi fi cation of the Ho' d awn 0 and he therefUre would vote for tile I gu the Papers alluded to.' E Offef g h a vi Th e n g When the no g ti said, he could not lielp thinkiog thAt„,‘"! s en h e I talic . Ci t) ' e R en iINCELLOR of ribt -h; aue.oo had been brought forward without 0 110 , 1 v iew's" lions were stated to have existed in telir des orAls icveenwailsf gthievenl:Anioaitirepelropine.ratflAoriosdic; sale of they Vessels. He w as Certal°'Y the Papers should be brought for War ro c g ot igal it s° Alter some further convereations M agreed to: ' the TOULON FLEET • ion to ws I Mr. SHERIDAN rose to put a clu e° we' King's Minister. Intelligence, he fear f j cl if /°° oot 0 rotinded, had obtained very Viler"' cr edit , c e ' ntit' i4 French squadron had sailed from Toulon , frig or eleven tail of the line anti seven heav e Y d tboaffil all full of troops, 'and that they hod Pl u kt roe! the Streights of Gibraltar the 9t h of ii oycio nsai. , Month. Ho desired to know whelhe r , . g . d . to tb li hdd received any offiCial at authentic .101 . effed ? 10 ° 114 ° 144 the fad. "- - - :-• k , c vet' ly M iec e cii P vc /Tr d adryeipeclisedw,htilciabt GiciniVeLntni;:nit to joay- mug colas. . .„,,.,i o a of , . s i Mr. Fosieeit, in pursuance ut h i s itii i 10 pie; tardays moved for leave to bring in a gi ll ci„„oh, the Provisions of an Aft to proin ut t i .001 11, / ,,,,„, of Irish Tokens' Altai Silver Coin to be j i , j e elatl' Governor anti CoMpany of the Bank a Leave. given. - • CO tßiskt LOAN• , i nt o a . Joe' muter of Ways arid Mean' , ly OW • LW.' . The House haying resoived itsels Mr. FOSTER said, he should on Trey n ona , the attention of the Committee lor , 8 be.yol , It would be recolletted, that earlY s'. l 1 0 00. 0. ;:l Session he had stated, that a Lon. °I ' , O itel a dal Or t o ;t reed, would .be proposed td be contra d aiso a , h , .. , . 01 ,4 for the service of that Country ; d ue oven "ft /,) that there was a sum of 800,001. .0 a W ls 0 0 .sury Bills, respetting which lie ell'"' flePj to reserve all discussion till a future day. 0 : j rioaissetaateLtoOantlioet r,Soo,ooot.totttmttree, that tend, rleteispillell.;eoyf:rot:l,ll:e:rhi, been made there whicli ,were oat the van , to were then made in this Country tor glinil, ti o . ' ° .,t 0 'he had felt it his duty tos accent ; '5 O ituo" 1, 13 0 0 Contratt so made that he had Hoo.' i d . t he .iubutit to the Committee. The Tam • 0 ' were— . • kf 4 ' iced. Long Annuities, - eilA Or IV aat. inlhos per Cent*. ,* •r t Makin togetht A' e 61. 4 1 . th e fluji " ,: j,.',