The Sun. — London, England, 1846-02-25 00:00:00

al report this ease• had ear id when decision ded with' c ollection loubt that ,rders ha d r desirous attributed to Mai ° mittee on ast, a lso, a Bill be as a case u pon tb e in t t i' ne gu ar the h utee Yorkshire ation at the e was ° 00 1, Voll:7o3enle. would cos 11°°580 !eratiou ths • re dang Br l s eindl o oe 0 0 ,1 1119 "41 V the 6 from sac° cal elf e ' -e diP6 lae stall e proto °t b g : g .case l er to t O.° 10 6" been 40 vith u r of 1 , y Noble Loi w ool rego' i r t hi n tbe O leo ! ig the' e cot r i n land , fof tters other P i rr ia, s n " by t he l eo o d the e ts tisg l e/3 07, 1 ' 0 0s depart _ s• a head under the tariff of 1842. The ludicrous dispro portion between the anticipation and the reality he need not Point out. On every other article the same pre dietions were made. tie had been surprised to find at the great fair of Ballinasloe the great increase of sample:, and the increase of price which had taken place within the last three years. Three years ago the numhcr of sheep sold was beingiB4•l t 2 h , e . 9,283, an d unsold 19,600, the average price being 3. 10s. In 7nsrber sold wa s 61,000 an d unso ld 8,000, the price while last year the number sold was 06,861, and Vosold on l y 2,900, the price having risen to 2/. 13s. lie r emembe re d a speech made in that House by Sir J. Emerson Tena nts of thr ee - quarters of an hour i n l engt h , cramme d w i th st atistical facts, and proving to demonstration that the millers ef Ireland wou ld b e ruined if foreign flour were admitted into the country on th e same terms w i t h t h at o f E ng l an d. W e ll the Government did admit in 1842 foreign flour, and were the Millers ruined? On the contrary, there had been an increase of ter, a per cent. i n the importation of corn which entirely proved futile were the arguments which were then ti red. Nor could they complain of the ceurse ajlVted by the Ri g ht H onoura bl e Baronet. They t, r emembered 189, when he set them a precedent be would never sacrifice the natianal interests to party i nnst eo")••—( Hear, h e a r . ) That precedent was set, and a euat did they do? Wily, when the occasion was passed, they Pieced hint at their head again. Shout 1 they not have remeni. nered th at under like circumstances he would have pursued a 'limiter course. Yet they set him at their head—from the pest of all possible motives —he was the only man of their party tho was abl e to conduct it.— (Hear, hear.) With regard to the away they had given to the Maynooth question, they that tliey had supported it because it was introduced by the rou i . "es, and that they would not have given it their support if it been introduced by the Noble Lord on this side of the 4,91"- After that avowal, had they a right to attack the light Ron. Baronet for his con.luct on this occasion? He be. w i tted that when this measure was carried, as it undoubtedly i l uld be, they would be again the humble servants of the s ight Hon. Baronet.—(" No, no," from the Ministerial side. ) e :theY had cried out in 1 , 3 9 9. They had then said, " Nos h; tuts tuta fides," but they now sat on the same benches as the Hon. Baronet ; besides, what could they do without re "; • Guild they find. any man amongst their ranks who . I . ‘' lnd Play his place ? He would read an extract from a B t r, i e th r kahle -posthumous pamphlet of the letters of . Sir Sidney t an In which he said that he believed that neither of his Peet, u ncles world survive for a single instant without S:r R. Pi, and asked whether there was a Chartist in the British "attire who would not, on the first intimation of such an :t en "' „ as the abolition of the Corn Laws, order a new suit of et als and go round to his butcher and baker for an enlarged eio ' i l• Was there a "Bear" on the Stock Exchange who not realise a large fortune when such a Ministry was re;"enced? It concluded by observing, that if he were a et niel imlist, he would like to see such a measure carried into it ect, a , the effect would be mot certainly a revolution, unless If t °° L a Particul ar course , w h en it m i g ht i n d ee d en d i n a l aug h. of t did not t a k e t h at course , i t wou ld b e pro d uct i ve o f mis traleeettias effect s f rom th e L an d' s E n d to John O'Groat's, and aa - 4 one end of Ireland to another. He (Lord Ingestre) t att illorted th e measure, as he believed that it would give pro of against hieh prices, and a securityaburidance His!ood, and secure the honest trader against distress. e i ld Impression was that it would tend to confirm the commer• j ea , el "ses in the ossession of the advantages they already cn -44"; and give to industry its full reward. It had been al e,. "r- that after the question was settled, something would itarise to unsettle the public mind, and that there would be it °ta t a call for the renewal of protection as there was now for Is e e e e "oreatio n If there were such a call, it would fifty years e t ;,,,7 be looked upon much in the same light as that call was e "Aced upon wich bad been made in the middle of the last ec e- e ' ll e rYs by the good people who regretted the alteration of the th;!'ar, for the Ministry to give them back the eleven days the ) ga d lost; and historians wouldl ook upon it in very much lass Centerse light as they looked upon a similar one . in the Pete - Ys A free import of commodities it was in . their td ,le. to give —free exports of those commodities other nations t h . 4 l !" get. He would not recur to the assertions which had o th : Made respecting Hulland, Belgium, and Germany, and b e • r of the continental estates. He believed the measure to kitast and righteous in itself, and for those reasons he gave the c l o s i t rY his warm and cordial support.—( Cheers. ) Fitlonel CONNOLLY perfectly agreed with his Hon. ep att ld the Member for Dublin University, in the reports re tee the potato crops in Ireland, from his own t observations; no Oitaoe.y that, but from the obs e rvations of others in his epees co untry —in th e cou n ty w hi c h he re p resen ted—l i e had oee t° the conviction that such was the case. He was not • wllho would rejoice in the miseries of his fellow-creatures, los s t wasknowPod what connexion this measure had to do wi h the diseto disease in Ireland.— (Hear.) At the very most this N e e l" c ould not hold out longer than four months, while ies e r rasure, eve n if it s h ou ld pass , cou ld no t p os sibly come 042 1 , 1 operatio n b e f ore th e ex pi ra ti on o f th ree y ea rs.— IIeCV Therefore, ke could not understand what the ques -1,4 b ad to do with the potato disease; and the eon, People would be very badly off indeed if they s hould b e t;Peued to wait for relief until this measure should come koitoPeration. Ile did think that this measure would have a Ir e t„injurio us e ff ect upon t hi s country as we l l as upon ei ta ‘„ e us and, therefo-e, it should have his most stre • ° Pposition.—( H ear .) He had had a long experience iati ra . People of I re l and as a country gent l eman, an d h a d an tayiettii iaatsetiknowled ge o f t h e i r wan t s , an d ye t h e wou ld say h e tt ea M , ' , H see how thi s measure wou ld b ene fit t h em . e had Y opposed f ormer measures o f t his sor t, from the con es er , that i t wou ld only i ncrease the miseries of the people era.'lland, fur he had no doubt that cheap bread and low sla t Were synonymous terms. In fact, it was at one time 1.1e 4 t hat this measure was introduced with a view t o ell e th e Manufacturers of this country to compete with fo er., by creating low wages.—( Hear, hear.) 'this was, t ee ", the wolf in sheep's clothing which they hail had : be itir,etheln sixteen years ago.—( Hear, hear.) In 1842 a simi -4,-"easure was introduced, which he felt convinced would the e i t a jl injurious effect upon agriculture, and yet . he suppor . ted lw a , lett Hon. Baronet, very much against his inclinatien, sa oti lse he was told it would be a beneficial measure. He het ed d s ay that he thought the agricultural body had exhi the al , talYi generous, and disinterested course in accepting for t r l a L nimuto of protection, which they considered necessary h ey _ e welfare of their order. In his opinion, they had re eehey_ti th emselves from the imputation of class interest, and the fr oa : - sordid epithets which were generally expended on them ree te tii e opposite side of the House, in default of sounder ar iresae2e---( A laugh.) At the time the Noble Lord, the Co. v eeretary, proposed his measure, in reference to supply tie, the colonies, he (Col. Connolly) on hearing his explana he e ! o et ! him his warm and most cordial support.—( Hear.) N oin , mdered that the extension of the markets of the ma. tam e,, was the object sought by the present measure. markets, he thought, already outstripped the bounds of folly Pat consumption, and, he must say, that he thought it '""(1) r ° g iv e an impulse to that which has already gone too far. atiaettectionist cheers.) Domestic agriculture was to be made' sei t ti m e ir in the hope of entrapping other nations into the pur (*tot,' a policy similar to that proposed to be adopted by this leac e Y e - s'a system of free trade. The discontent and turbu• lead which would necessarily arise out of this measure in Ire %err° very dangerous, and were overlooked by her Majesty's s p ar e rn e : ne at. The produce of Ireland had been quadrupled in ID e a uersi and yet they were asked what had protection done ? eh is w as the origin of the great capital that had accumulated Proeae a cOunt ry b ut protection? The night Hon. Gentleman Zed th _a toshow that an abatement of cri m e had tak en pl ac e, Npi t '' art improvement w a s evident in the mor a l s o f th e Mid a '. C onsequent upon . the increased comfort which iet rod r e i sen of late in tho habits of the people. He w hat w ti ed this subject in order to make them abandon Sot the sneering called their class interests .—( Hear, hear. ) pr etee ll ; e measure before them involved the principle that no kid ta ` z 7 , should be granted to the tradesman or artizan who n eant r sett, Wtiamsenin..thainerdabdieev._( devoted his energies to the service of the it Y. This was a monstrous principle, i t was unchristian, Hear, hear.) This might be called 4 angu a t ' i t might be overwhelatend with every abuse that Sto et i o r could inveat, but while he had a soul in his body he a l / 44dd ::::;euri a c t , : : u s s e n t to inflict such an injury—one so inhuman iseal g uet— oPon the country.—( Hear, hear.) All their had been made on the basis of protection, at °nee ~,Q u at s sl 7Y ask the tradesman to pay his taxes, when they by fiv e " d ', (l that protection, and abated his ability to pay of older and - " t ate' per cent.? These were the opinions were the opi n Z e s r o h i eads than ,he could ever hope to be—they led g e on er Lord Ashburton, whose immense know s_ e ha dy enough _licoatuppidybcou y that ntrr er , y euia,• b tl lonial and otherwise no on • which i t was dis la o co ‘, _ one Whic h deny. He would say for . his pouilegence and pogvereted'erY large proportlon of taro crime wit to Ins sincere , i , -egret, arose from the at .„. h " a certaij eolle t o e f nl e n Ey e o t p o l - Creat apply . to Ireland that which he had said w;th regard to rita n , that the charges consequent on the levying and tvi t h c , ti ng the rates, together with the rates themselves, coa e led str eat '! i e great charges on lend, rendered their measure a de ?NI oue. Ireland was capable of quadrupling her present it' ta u ee within four years, if a good market could be found for Neh Great Britain. They were about to abate the means of itetornatry at t h e t i me when t h e p oo r -rates were rapidly Of and th e y wou ld very shortly he under the necessity those rates by force,. if they allowed this measure to wi t et At Pre sent the rateshe was happy to say, were paid t lrote rs e u tmost punctuality. Did they think that the Ghat the of Irela n d were lik e l y to be i mproved b y griertatle Honourable Member for Northampton called " the ee eti _Wl hand of political economy ?" Why could they not reekstheir present system of relief by the means of public tall e ver en loans? He had always votedf r such measures, as f ar d hin e re- Y e rnelo . g, ich had been lent to I . r o eland hadbeen tise iitered ef t ' e ens and had been repaid with thanks. He de • eeerael whsellntention of the Government to curtail the only well fo could be ben e fi c i a l t o t h e I ris h f armer . I t was oa . r th e H on. Baronet to deride the different fears of h ti,o h und ierabers, th at they could not sustain their present posi er Poeisi en e . present measure. He for one could maintain pee althout taxing the labourer unjustly, and he hey,! be never should live to see the timo when that k whi c h erne era now went for the encourag ment and ° aid e nt of the agriculture of the British empire, ` l l, , Pent o Ile an f r n the produce . of a foreign hear.) %1 w ne benefit of the foreigner.—(Hear, ear. ea , Lees aff Ln the Gallant Member opposite that the per % 'otri a t 'lots of this measure would be to throw off their connexion. It might be said that this was arguing t i i ,k it wonurtileraptilsle economywould contend for it, at 4 ate c en Z be better upon a principle of economy to c.on legreater a and Ireland. If he were to pursue this subject eesti eo e ngth, it would induce him to open up the whole ei ts °I the timber and shipping interests of the country k o r e , as w ho re et etti.. a Gallant Member below him, who would deal , `el, with that branch of the subject ; but on the al !Ida! 0 , : 7 . 0u1d say that he looked upon this measwe as t eas eottie 'are best and dearest interests of the country, and ta r IN, e of her political power as a greatnation.—(hear.) rteventori,`: EST RE thought an apology was due from him, tit a r i rtiro ca i b ts trespass on the House on a question of such (a eo „ort s h o e present. But the very importance of the Th e "em ee, u -L Plead h;s apology, as also the fact of Hon. h e Part et wit h. whom he once was proud to act, having acted the n. Gatltie political apostates.—(Hear, hear. ) The Right d e o!ur neu n 'an, the Secretary for the Home Departmeet, at bee:hi/erect ernent of that mot extraardinary speech, which lieoei;zsibuissair.lfeeeiseitnyights since, adduced a few tests, by which He ( Lord Ingcstre) gave him every credit thou c oo n t riV, as he also did in the case of every other coons} he had an. But, perhaps, he would be allowed— test forte for...ll:Ann° abandonment of piilitical principles to ac teat the since ..ped he would be permitted to adduce one t eh _ . a 1,4.1,111 y of his own opinions. It was well known M 1,7 ,, he shoe , .as wiitten by a Noble relative of his, of te et, Vona to ; ,tceiver speak in terms the most respectful and to Weight attac h edg re at to them, as his Noble relative was known 1 , 44 _7.) 11 attention to the seichee of agriculture.— eq.'. ally 0 , 1 Noble Friend had said that Englishmen were them aspee'sitiaesPethrseevering character.. H . e said, that come e t ° l is Ent . r e may, their energies would surmount la s •ertainin t h ese a th e 'llll l iese opinions, he would no doubt e . tr ael t LearlY partgive his support to the proposed measure. the "Y ar t Ilse,:debate, he (Lord Ingestre) was e tpa ea e t tetary at . ‘ t / on made by the Right Hon. Gentleman ae oh _ te a of r, to the effect that the present was not tra t 4 t er sensati o P ti rl ti lle, and that it was ridiculous to . cause ','lor e a elal llghout the country upon a . question of "et a h a eteae wo •ea, tie .considered that no question could be w otti ,N ee ., oi principle than that by which Hon. Mem telly tis ve leturned to that House.—( Hear, hear.) He Whictop}h Mader it a hicts 0 . 1 , is question of principle if he had made smiare a,: h ad aele_eeConstituents to support a measure, and "qa Crem e ' _ rels abandoned. , hear. ) We J Mlle • • re 4 lgnatlons upont his potion by lion, Members who thought it a question of principle. Others have written to their constituencies, or, taking advantage of differ ea local circumstances, have also resigned their seats. We have had also a sort of manifesto from a Noble Lord, a Mem ber of the Government. He would say, ❑i:en that, letter, that he could not countenance the principlus contained in that document. fie thought tie House and the country had a right to call on the. Right Haan. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Noble Lord, the Member for Monmouth, to explain to the country why they had re-joined the Cabinet, and why they were now supporting measures which they thought so detrimen tal to the interests of the country. Did the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, recollect an . - address of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, when in a somewhat similar position to the present. lie alluded to the address issued by Sir Robert Peel to his constituents at Oxford in 16 , 25, when he proposed to abolish Cathedic Emancipation. The Right lion. Gentleman then said, " You did not sent me to Parliament to relinquish Romish restrictions, but to maintain them, and to keep my seat in violation en that li,nourahle understanding would be disgraceful. I therefore resign my scat into your hands."— (Cheers. ) He (Lord Ingestre) thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer was in a similar situation, and therefore ought to adopt the same course.—(Cheers.) He ( Lord ingestre) thought the pFesent measure had been intro duced at a most infectious time. The Honourable Gentleman then quoted a passage from the Liverpool Market note, which stated that the other day (bete had been a large arrival of wheat from Ireland, and that the price of oat meal was on the decline. The Mark Lane Express made a similar statement, and he would ask the House, how could they imagine that a famine was approaching with such facts before their eyes? The Right Hon. Baronet, in the course of two or three powerful speeches which he had made on this subject, ad vocated it on the principle of its being a " final adjustment," but hr considered that the Right Hon. Baronet had a kind of at tachment to " final adjustments," as some laaies had to " match making ;" but fur his part, he considered that this final adjustment would only he the commencement of a series of adjustments, and he warned the Right Hon. Gentleman, if he gave way to his alarm respecting are approach of famine, on a future day he would be obliged to state that the day on which the corn, laws were repealed, instead of being his happiest, was the most miserable of his existence. He aked what was free-trade, and they would say it w.,5 buying in the cheapest and selling in the dearest market. Ditferent countries had difforent produce; and he thought that the true policy of free trade would be to allow every country to produce the particular articles for which she was best calculated, and to interchange our produce for it, giving them such articles as they themselves could not produce. If a fair start were effected between the dfferent nations, he believed that the indr.mitable energies of this country would surmount every obstacle and surpass all the others. He had taken a period of six years, which he had divided into two periods of three years tact), and the result of his observations would give remarkable evidence on this ques tion. The first three years he alluded to were from the years 1832 to 1835 inclusive, avid during that period the price of corn was very low and the duty was very high, so much so that they might. be called years ira which foreign corn was pro hibited. He would not enter into the details of figures, but he would state the fact that in these three years the imports and exports increased very considerably, and in the three following years, when the state of things was directly opposite when the price was very high and the duty was very low—the imports and exports materially decreased. Now, he ( Lord Ingestre) had heard it said that because they asked protection, they were monopolists.--( Hear, hear. ) He did not understand the meaning of the word.—( Laughter.) What was it ? He did not argue as an egrieulturist ;he argued on general grounds ; he argued as much for the artisan toiling in manufactures, as he did for the agricultural labourer. Could they call that monopoly which employed four-fifths of the whole population ?—(" Hear, hear," from the protectionists.) He was not sure of the exact figures, but the number employed in agriculture was about three hundred millions, and in manu factures about eighteen hundred millions.—(Laughter.) [ We presume the Noble Lord has slightly mistaken his figures, and means 3,000,000 in the former instance, and 1,100,000 in the latter.' Now, if the corn which was grown in this country was displaced by the corn brought from abroad, they must send either money or manufactures to pay for it, and so much capital would be displaced, which would otherwise belong to the corn-growers of this country. Four times the quantity might indeed come from those countries, but they would not probably in return consume more than one-tenth of the manu factures which might be required to pay for this corn. Thus they would destroy that market—the home market—which ' Adam Smith said was worth more than all other markets to gether. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated, on the other night, that high wages and low prices often went together, and that low prices and high wages were very often the case. That might be very true, he believed it was true, but that had arisen from extraordinary circumstances. Now, as he had before stated, he thought that the present law had given great prosperity to the country. He found two three authorities upon this point ; he found that the Right Hon. Baronet and the Secretary at War admitted it • but the Right Hon. Baronet indeed afterwards said that the present alteration was introduced in consequence of the success of his tariff of 1842. He stated that he had been mistaken all his life, but that his measure of 1842 had been so successful that he was encouraged to go on in what might be called the same direction. The Secretary at War, who had represented himself as a free trader • in disguise for many years, stated that the corn- law of 1842 was a signal failure. He would ask the Right Hun. Baronet and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War which of them was right?—( Hear, hear.) Under the system of protection, he (Lord Ingestre) contended that there had been greater steadiness of prices in England than ha been the case elsewhere. The fluctuation in this country had been less than in other countries, and he saw no reason why the principle should be at once abandoned, though as science ad vanced it might be gradually reduced. He supported the tariff of 1842, because he considered the previous system required amending, but the present measure he thought uncalled for. Respecting what had been said by the Hon. Member for Sunder land, the other night, about the low price at which wheat could be imported, he gave soave information. It was remarked, in answer to what that Hon. Gentleman stated, that the wheat which was imported at so low a price was inferior, but the best teat o f that was the weight ; the best wheat usually weighing about 61 lbs. to the bushel. In corroboration of that lion. Gentleman's statement,lhe held in his hand the average price of foreign corn in bond in the port of London, between the years of 1835 and 1845. In the month of January 1835, wheat was imported at 225. per qr.; in 1836, at 225. ; in 1837 at 40s. ; this was the average price of corn imported from all countries. In 1838 the average price per qr. was 255. ; in 1839, at 355. ; He had no quotations for 1840, 1841, and 1542. In 1843 the average price was 29s ; in 1844, 425. ; and 1845, e6s. These prices \were correct, and was an answer to those Hon. Gentlemen who stated that the landed proprietors could com pete with those low rates and keep their land in cultivation. It was absurd to suppose that the present breadth of land would remain under cultivation, and that to effect this there would exist any security that present prices would be maintained. He did not want to advocate the interests of one class and to exclude the consideration of another, hut he wanted to advocate to some extent the cause of the landowners, who would suffer more than any other portion of the community by the adoption of the measures promulgated by the Government. It had been said repeatedly with great truth, both in print, at public meetings, and to some extent in that House, that this was en entirely a landlords' question. There could be no doubt of it, and he would prove that this was so. He would allow an ave rage of 22 b ashels of wheat per acre, and it was well known that five loads yielded 24 bushels of flour. Each acre gave 19 loads of wheat, which yielded 340 loaves. If these loaves were charged at 61. each, these nineteen bushels would realise 170 s. He put the average rent at 255. per acre. Now, if they were to abolish the whole of the rents paid by the occupiers of land, the consumer of the bread which they produced would not be saved more than one-sixth of the present price of the quartern leaf. But if they were to abolish those rents, what would become of the landowner?—how would he be able to improve his land, and how would he be able to purchase the goods of the manufacturer? He objected to the measure on the grounds he had stated-4hat it would be highly injurious to Ireland ; in fact, they could not conceive an act which would be more suicidal to the country, because to de stroy its best markets, which had been so much encouraged by the trade of this country ; arid he for one was at a loss to know how they could benefit the peril le of Ireland by destroying the best and most regular market they had. Then he considered that the partial failure of the potato crop in Ireland was an in sufficient reason for destroying the principles on which the commerce of this country had been conducted. Why, if they were to send an abundance of corn from foreign countries into Ireland, the people would have no money to buy it. He also objected to the measure because it would be a substantial injustice on the colonies, especially on Canada. In 1843, when the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies (Lord Stanley), introduced the Canada Corn Bill, he said that it was necessary, but they now proposed to admit corn into this country under a system which wiuld inflict great in jury on our colonial possessions. lie gave the Right Hon. 13aronet credit for all sincerity in proposing this measure, but he might rely upon it that neither he nor any other Minister could ever succeed in governing this country without party—not a party of that House, but of the country. He was much dis tressed to hear the Right Hon. Baronet recant at the red box all the opinions which he had often heard him express upon protection, but he wished to ask some of those Hon. Members who hail undergone so sudden and miraculous a conversion, %%heater they would not have been equally vain in their support of the Right Hon. Baronet had he prop In trisedc,anireasonablethe r t i t s r t o n t e e r c a t n i o y n e t agriculture.—(Hear, u n it n u a h n ea d r. i f ) Ire could venture to give an advice to the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Morpeth) he would take the liberty of reminding him, that the noble blood of Howard was flowing through his veins, and also of reminding those who were acting with him, that institutions, such as those they were now attaching them selves to, ought to be a warning to the members of the aristo cracy.—(Hear, hear.) Before he sat down he was anxious to prove that the fever which was felt respecting the diseased potatoes was unnecessary, as he held in his hand new potatoes what were produced from the eyes of diseased potatoes. Here the Hen. Gentteman, amidst great laughter, took from his pocket a small packet of new potatoes.) These potatoes had been grown by Mr. Chapman, a market gardener, and he (Lord Ingestre) took this opportunity of mentioning that fact; he hoped in future, the potatoes would be turned to better use, and that it would be no longer said that all potatoes were diseased. With these observations he would conclude by thanking the House for the attention with which he was heard. Mr. TRELAWNY would ask the Noble Lord vebat cer tainty there was that the potatoes which he had produced were grown from diseased seed? The proper course for Honourable Members to have adopted was to have proposed an amendment that the ports be opened. They seemed, however, to fancy that their views were better advanced by the criminatory lan guage which they had all along adopted. lie would ask, had they not at first used the cry of "Protection to agriculture," and then, finding that they had no hold on the affections of the country, had the 3 not changed their cry to "Protection to native industry ?" He could understand in some measure the line of conduct pursued by Hon. Members, if they were pre pared to say that they would put a duty on their exports as well. It appeared to him, however, that Honourable Mem bers entirely lost sight of the great point on the present question. They had spent a great deal of time and a great deal of eloquence in vituperating the Right Hon. Baronet, but in his opinion they lost tight of the great question which they ought to have kept in view. That point was whether the repeal of the corn-laws would be really injurious to the agricultural interest. He thought that the protectionists were acting unfairly towards the Right lion. Baronet, and he thnught they were acting somewhat illogically too in charging him oith the criminality of having changed his opinions. They complained of him as if this was an act of treachery, after having entertained other opinions for a great number of years. What would be said of a philosopher who, after believing in certain dogmas for a long period, found reason to differ from his previous sentiments, if he refrained from acting on the altera tion in his conviction ' He read the spe , cites, he thought all the speeches, which had been made on this subject, and he had been unable to meet with anything that could convince him of the utility of retaining protection. He thought it was a pity that the aristocracy of this c .untry, an ancient aristocracy as they were, should rest all their usefulness to the country on a mere question of rent. The Right lion. Baronet, and the Noble Lord the Member for London (Lord Man Russell), should throw their previous conceptions overboard, and pro vide those measures only which were likely to be for the general benefit. In the case of a great war with America, he should be very sorry to trust the safety of the country to the talents of all the Dukes. A f.w years might make this mea sure not only convenient but necessary. It appeared to him that the coarse of observation indulged in by the Honourable Mel Oct opposite Wa3 not a conititutioupd mac. He could THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNES DAY EVENING. not conceive how it could be constitutional for that party of I which the Hon. Member was a supporter, to send up here certain Members as delegates from the protectionists.—(No, t no.) Had it not been stated that tl.ey were pledged to suppor t , the agricultural interest, as it had been called ; bet then ha rot the Right lion. Baronet opposite been bound by a higher pledge—a pledge to legislate for the benefit of the whole country ?—(Hear, hear.) And, if so, then, no minor pledge could be regarded as such. He had heard a great deal about the League ; now, he had never been a member of that body, but he was aware that it had done a great dead of good ; and if the Government had not introduced some such measure as teat before the House, he should have joined it. Mr. PACKE said that though he had for many years the honour cf a seat in that House, yet he did not feel at all times anxious to take a part in its debates. But the present question was one of such importance, and, in his opinion, so ruinous to the country, that he could not consent to give the measure a silent vote. He was not going to follow in the course of obser vations of the Hon. Gentleman who sat down, but he would confine himself to the subject-ma:ter of the debate.. It was with very great pain he found himself obliged to differ front an Administration, which, since he had the ho nour to enter the House, he cordially and invariably had supported.—( Hear, hear.) He did not for a moment impute to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government a single impure motive. He believed the Right Hon. Gentleman was actuated by the sincerest conviction of the necessity of the course of policy he was pursuing, but, as he (the Hon. Member conceived that course to be ruinous to the country, he felt himself compelled to make a few passing observations. One of the most startling assertions which the Right Hon. Baron tt had made, and one that struck hint par ticularly, was, that the course of policy then about to be pur sued by the Ministry was a Conservative policy.— ( Hear, hear, from the protectionists.) The Right Ilon. Baronet then stated that he could not charge himself with having acted incon sistently with true Conservative principles, and suppliantly inquired if to put down agitation w a s an act inconsistent with true Conservative principles ? He (Mr. Packe) could not conceive how the Right Hon. Baronet, could thus address the House, when he must have been aware at the time that the agitation with which the Anti-Corn-law League had menaced the country during the seven preceding years, had in creased to a greater extent during the present year. If he ( Mr. Poole) rightly understood the meaning of the term " true Conservative policy," he should say that it meant an adherence to fixed principles. And if he understood the meaning of the principles upon which the Hon. Member on the opposite side acted, he should say it was an ever-varying principle.—(Pro tectionist cheers.) The Noble Lord the Member for the city of London has, by the sacrifice of his principles, been enabled to keep his party together, while the Right Hon. Baronet has changed his principles and sacrificed his party. He had heard men say that we should not rake up old speeches, but it was by these, he maintained, that " true Conservative principles" could be proved. However unpalatable it would be to some Hon. Members, he must trespass on their attention for a short time, while he read a few extracts from some former speeches. When the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) brought forward a motion, he said to Hon. Members on this side of the House, "If you will leave us alone to settle this matter, I shall be much obliged to you." He (Mr. Packe) should like Honourable Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House to leave him and those with whom he acted to settle the present question with the Right Honourable Baronet. and he had no doubt they would be able to arrange the matter satisfactorily. The Hon. Member went on to say that all Parliaments had been in favour of protection, and that the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) had always been the consistent advocate of the repeal of the corn-law. In 1838 the Hon. Member (Mr. Villiers) moved for a com mittee to inquire into the laws relating to the importation of foreign corn. Upon that, as well as on a subsequent occasion in 1839, that motion was opposed' by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, the Noble Lord, the Mem ber for the city of London, and the Hon. Member for Man chester (Mr. Gibson). At the assembling of the Parliament in the commencement of her Majesty's reign, the Hon. Member for Liskeard ( Mr. C. Buller) stated that the House was at present ignorant of the principles upon which the Right Hon. Baronet meant to carry on his Government, if he succeeded to office. He (Sir R. Peel) then made the following declaration—" I would not shrink from the expresssion of my opinions If I saw reasons for changing my course I would do so. I have not changed my opinions, not withstanding ,the combination which has been formed against the present corn-laws, either for the purpose of procuring their total repeal or the substitution of a fixed duty in place of the present sliding scale. Notwithstanding the present agitation which is going forward, I do not hesitate to avow my adhesion to the opinions exp e sed by me last year. On thesth of June following this announcement, when 023 Members were pre sent, a division was taken, and a vote of want of confidence in the Ministers was carried, by a majority of one, owing to this declaration of the Right Hon. Baronet. At the accession of the present Government they found themselves in a majority of 91 Members, who were pledged to support the corn-law in tact. The Right Hon. Baronet had said, when the Hon. Member for Wolverhamton had brought forward his measure in 1813, " I think that any alteration in laws of this kind are to be deprecated. I think also that the existing laws afford us a fair adjustment of the question. He would go on to state what the Right 1-lon. Baronet hadstated during the following year : —" I have a strong feeling, speaking generally, that agriculture is entitled to protection. It is entitled to protection from a sense of justice, for the land sustains peculiar burdens. Look at the population of Ireland, which depends entirely on its agri cultural produce. lam not prepared to alter the amount of protection." He was certain there was not a man, either in that House or out of the House, who prior to the 2ed of January, could have been prepared for the strange and sweeping change which the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed in the corn-laws. He would now advert to the reasons which had been brought forward in support of the proposed measure. Firstly, the principal reason was the failure in the potato crop. lie must say that that subject was almost worn threadbare, so that it was hardly necessary to show why a new project should overthrow a fixed principle of 200 year's standing.—( Hear.) The second reason was, that the prosperity of the last three years was a sufficient induce ment for a further relaxation of duties. In his opinion, the prosperity that now abounded under a moderate protection was a great reason why it should be continued, and not de stroyed. Then, again, they had been told, that the wages of labour were not dependent on the price of corn. As far as he could remember, he was perfectly persuaded, that the wages of agricultural labour depended very nearly on the price of corn. In his own neighbourhood such was the case ; and whenever there was a sensible rise in the price of corn, the amount of wages were always affected by it. In the next place, they had been told that the object of the measure was to reconcile the differences and animosities between the dif ferent classes of her Majesty's subjects. Now, whether that was an alu ion to the Anti-Corn-law League he could not say; they were, however, only like soldiers in a theatre, that kept marching round and round the stage, in - order to give an ap porent multitude to their numbers. The Hon. Member then briefly alluded to the compensation which the proposed measure prepared for the agriculturists, and said he would allude to a circumstance in which the Irish Members on his side of the House were somewhat concerned. He had seen it reported in the public prints that the Noble Lord, the new Secretary for Ireland, had satisfied the Noble Lord, the Member for London, of the liberal policy which the Govern ment were about to adopt towards Ireland ; consequently, he would say, if the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, bad satisfied the Noble Lord, the Member for London, of the mea sures which were to be brought forward for Ireland, the Irish Members ought to be on the look out with respect to the in tended policy towards that country. The Hon. Gentleman then concluded, by thanking the House for their kind attention to the observations which he had thought proper to address to them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he feared he must commence with the opening sentence which had characterised the speeches of most of the Hon. Gentlemen who had addressed the House—namely, at that protracted pe riod of the debate he could not be expected to offer any new observations which could claim a right to occupy their atten tion. He could assure the House, that under these circum stances he would confine his observations to the narrowest limits which it was possible for him to do, in the discharge of the duty he had undertaken to perform. As to the question itself, it would be unnecessary to enter into any argument, after it had been so ably discussed by so many Hon. Gentle men, and especially after the great ability which had been dis • played in treating of it by the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of the Government, and by the Pre• sident of the Board of Trade; who had left no arguments untouched, and who had completely refuted argu ments which bad been brought forward on the other side. —(Cries of " No, no. ") Yes, they had established beyond the power of contradiction the fact, that the removal of restrictions and the progressive development of the relaxa tion of protective duties, had, in every instance, been attended with results permanently beneficial and advantageous to the country.—( Cheers.) Before he entered upon the general question, he considered it to be his duty to respond to the calls which had been made upon him by many Hon. Gentlemen in bd t h yi sephcoio9seudrßsteiogohft supporth e o n d . e t b Fh a e. t i e em , ned t a o .s u s t r s a e t ot e mh t ae h t e ihi g ta r , dn o b n ce d e e s nn o it ) 1 1r i eom u egnh which he thfaodrws ua was prd- posed that he differed from his colleagues on the measure before the House, and that he was going to support the measure against the convictions of his own principles. He believed that this opinion on their part, after the statements which he should make to the House, would be entirely disabused.— ( Hear)—and would prove as fallacious as the arguments which they adduced against the measure itself.—(Cheers.) He would simply state to the House the course which he had adopted. It was known that during the middle of October a general opinion prevailed as to the failure of the potato crop in Ireland and in this country, and that disease had very greatly extended itself ; and on the Ist of November the Government deliberated as to the measures necessary to be adopted under the circumstance of the case. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been informed by his Right Honourable Friend that ho had intended, either t o openo ncorn a ports by Legislative t a i n v e Ct en rc a l e e t r in i n Council, e nt.o o On both t t e h o r of la t x h e t h d se e u i ques tionses he had differed from his Right Hon. Friend. He thought that in such a case the direct interposition of the Government by an act of the kind would be an interference with the established law of a dangerous nature, and an act which could only be justified by an immediate and urgent necessity. He could not avoid perceiving that the state of Ireland was not one that required that stringent course of action. He thought that the matter might be dealt with by legislative enactment at a future period, and that it was not expedient to open the ports at that time. It was impossible for him not to consider that the Government were not called upon for a suspension of the corn•la,vs for so long a period as that suspension was con sidered necessary His advice to the Government was, to look forward to the ulterior c insequences of the step which they were about to take. It was his opinion that to open the ports at that period would have been to suspend the due operation of the law. It had farther been stated that on previous occasions the suspension of the law had not entailed any evil consequences whatever. He knew that in antecedent periods of our history the ports had been opened by an Order in Council, but the effects of that measure had always been represented to have been injurious to trade and commerce, and were only to be justified by the emergency of the case. He had always understood that the benefit of the sliding scale, which was introduced in 1828, was intended to produce a sufficient supply of corn, without having recourse to those continental interferences on the part of the Government, which had been found on all former occasions to be hurtful and inconvenient; and also he could not put out of his consideration, that, on all occasions on which recourse had been made to an Order in Council, the benefit of the sliding scale was opposed to the fixed duty. The great argument that had been brought forward against a fixed duty was that when the time of trial and famine should arrive, it would be necessary to depart from the principle of the law, and allow of this interposition of the Government in Council, in order to adroit corn into the country.—(Hear. ) Finding, then, that the consequences of these interpositions must necessarily terminate in the abrogation of the law, an additional argument of the strongest nature was furnished why that abrogation should not be effected by an Order in Council. Considering also the existing feelings on the part of a great body of the community, it was necessary to leave the power of the Government unshackled, at the meet ing of Parliament, to pursue any ultimate measure which it might tie considered necessary to adopt. For this reason therefore, he opposed the proposition to admit foreign corn into the country through the medium of an Order in Council. But his Right Hon. friend at the head of the Government proposed an alternative ; he suggested the imme diate assembly of Parliament for the purpose of effecting the opening of the ports by means of a legislative enactment. To 1 that proposal he equally offered an objection, although his ob , objeotinn rested upon different granule. The proposition was submttted to the Cabinet on the Ist of November. At that time the Lord Lieutenant of Ire!and, and a number of other parties had received accounts of the fearful extent of the potato failure in Ireland. Those ac counts rested upon considerable authority, and the statements were made so as to create considerable alarm. At that period of time the Irish crop of potatoes had not been dug, and there were no means of actually ascertaining the extent of the cola mity. He felt, then, that with those differences as to the ex tent of the calamity which was coming upon the country,i t was probable that there might be prevalent a doubt upon the minds of others as to the expediency of at once opening the ports. It was his duty to withhold giving his assent to any legislative measure which might affect the corn-laws until time I were allowed for a further investigation of the subject. That the extent of the misfortune then coming upon Ireland was nothing like that which they now knew to be the real fact, it was impossible to doubt. He thought that when the question was before the public there would be no doubt of a more general concurrence in the support of some measure for the suspension and subsequent alteration of the corn laws at that time, than if they proceeded at once to the ills cussion of a subject which had now created so much alarm. For those reasons, therefore, he entered his protest against the immediate assembling of Parliament for the purpose of suspending the corn-law:.—(hear, hear.) He might have been wrong, or he might have formed an erro neous judgment upon the question which was then submitted to his consideration. He saw, or at least he thought he saw, that the danger with which we had to deal was a question which would not be encountered until at least an early period in the spring. He felt the greatest anxiety that this question, which so largely affected the interests of the people of this country, should be supported under its difficnl ties by the greatest possible number of Hon. Gentlemen in that House, as well as by the general opinion of the people of this country—( Hear, hear)—arel therefore it was that he pre ferred delaying the commencement of operations, in order that, when they were commenced, they might be carried with a weight and an authority which would put an end to all cavilling and opposition.—(Cheers.) He had been told, that in refusing to accede to the proposition for the Order in Council, he be trayed a want of that coldness which a Minister ought to feel in dealing with great commercial questions. He might be told, perhaps, that he was in want of that sagac'ty which ought to have enabled him to see so long before-hand the extent of the calamity with which Ireland was likely to be afflicted. He might be told also that he had manifested yet more want of that knowledge of his Hon. Friends near him, and that he ought to have known that they would have willingly assented to the suspension of the corn-law Act of 1842, if the proposition had been submitted to them. He might on all those points have been in error, but this he would say, after the lapse of the periods which had since intervened, and after reflecting upon the course which he then thought it his duty to take and ad vise, and which he thought in his conscience was the best that he could give ; he did not feel, after a reviewal of the transaction, that if it were now presented to him in the shape in which it then stood, he should give a dif ferent opinion from that which they gave.—( Hear, hear.) After this difference in the Government upou this particular point, it was agreed that the question should be postponed for a limited period, in order that further information with re spect to it might be accessible to every one. That further period brought with it undoubtedly the strongest possible argu ments for a change in the corn-laws. They had very shortly afterwards laid before them a report of the Commissioners who had been sent into Ireland to inquire into the nature and ex tent of the calamity. The Commissioners in that report de tailed their views of what was the extent of the crop of potatoes, and what was the limited amount upon which the people would be compelled to subsist. The accounts of those Commissioner.; were confirmed by actual experience when the potato crop came to be dug in different parts of the country, from which it appeared that in some places one-half, in others one-third, and in others three-fourths had been abso lutely destroyed. Nay, there was a general and universal feel ing, and one which he believed was founded in justice—that the preservation of the inhabitants of some parts of that country depended entirely upon the fineness or wetness of the weather. (Hear, hear.) The case then resolved itself into the reliev ing of Ireland from the difficulties with which it was then in his mind encompassed ; and although he felt deeply that the adoption of the course which his Right lion. Friend ( Sir R. Peel) had now submitted to the House, would be attended with a dissolution of party connexion—( Opposition cheers )—and would probably cause his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), separa tion from many of those with whom he had for many years been connected, and whom he hoped he might still be permitted to call his Honorable Friends—( Hear, hear)--although he felt that that might be the necessary consequence of the measure, yet he also felt that there were duties imposed upon one holding the responsible situation—( Loud Opposition cheers)—which went beyond the feelings of party and of class, and that being convinced in his own mind that an alteration in the corn laws had become a question of inevitable necessity, he was pre pared to give his opinion that under the circumstances which he had mentioned, the corn-laws ought to undergo some change. At the same time, he felt that that change had been better effected by other persons than his Right Hon. Friend al the head of the Government—( Hear, hear)—and he entirely concurred in the resignation of that charge into the hands of others, who, from their long maintenance of the opinions by which they were actuated, were better fitted to discharge the duties, and perhaps better calculated to carry this measure.— say, that w h en h e t en d ere d t o only fhis office, h e h a d no more id ea that he (Hear,l‘j h i i s e h e i ta L r .l the d ) have He would resignatio n ha o d u to ld deal with this question in any other capacity than that of a private individual than he had of any other probability of which he had not the slightest anticipation or idea. —( Hear, hear.) If Hon. Members doubted the ve racity of his statement, he could, by most complete evidence, prove to them that he did not at that time contemplate anything of the kind.—( Hear, hear.) He did, indeed, at first entertain some doubts as to the time when the measure for the alteration of the corn-laws should be brought forward, but as to the necessity of some alteration in the corn laws, be entertained not the slightest doubt.—( Cheers.) lie thought that such a course would be best calculated to promote the interests of the country.—( Hear, hear.) He was, there fore, at that time prepared to vote upon this question in his pri vate capacity, in the same manner as he was now about to do in the capacity of a Member. On these grounds, therefore, he thought that there was no inconsistency in his conduct when he resumed office.—(Cheers.) That was, in a few words, a short history of the transaction as far as he was concerned. He trusted it would satisfy his Hon. Friends; and although diffe rences might exist between them and himself with regard to this question, he yet hoped that they would be ready to believe him when he said that, in pursuing the course which he had, he was doing what was best calculated to promote the interests of the country.—( Hear, hear.) A Noble Lord. a Member of that House, had told him, that in his opinion, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had acted inconsistently with his duty to his constituents, which he had the honour to represent when he accepted office after he had tendered his re signation.—( Hear, hear.) And he called upon him to make some explanations to his constitutents at Cambridge.— ( Hear, hear.) Now, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought that the duties of a representative differed entirely from those which had been mentioned by the Noble Lord. Hr did not pretend to say that if Honourable Gentlemen at par ticular elect ons had pledged themselves, under all circum stances, and upon all occasions ' to maintain particular laws, they might feel themselve s bound to adhere to those pledges and opinions. But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stated to his constituents generally his views upon particular subjects, if these subjects came under discussion ; he, however, re served to himself the fullest right to take upon all other questions that must come under consideration in Parliament that course which he thought most conducive to the general interest. And however it might be sanctioned by some great examples, however it might be conformable to the views which some Gentlemen who had pledged themselves might take, he for one did not admit that it was in any respect the duty of a repre sentative, acting in opposition to his constituents upon particular laws that might be submitted to the consideration of the House, to make that opposition the ground of his resigning, or even tendering his resignation, if required to do so by his con stituents. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had, given no pledges with respect to the corn-laws at any period to his constituents. He had never expressed any sentiment that might be construed into an expression in favour of a per manent adherence to the existing laws, which Hoe. Gentlemen seemed to have given to their constituents when they were elected. And on those grounds, therefore, he thought it would be abandoning the character of a representative in Parliament. He thought it would be depriving himself of the capacity of acting in accordance with the views of the constituency of the whole country (which they undoubtedly really represented) if he were to be bound on all occasions to vote in accordance with i the views of his immediate constituents.—(Cheers.) Now, so 1 far he was sure he detained the House too long upon matters which related to himself personally—(Cheers)—there was nothing, he was sure, more painful or less agreeable upon which to speak, and he would now, therefore, proceed to address him self shortly to the subject which was immediately be fore the House. The question which they had before them. was one, as it appeared to him, which might be found to be comprised in a very narrow compass. It was simply whether they would make progress in the course which they had for some years proceeded in, with respect to the relaxation of pro tective duties ; or whether they would be content, not merely to remain where they were s but to retrograde in the course which they had hitherto taken. He knew that in the course of this debate many Hon. Gentlemen had supported the Go vernment up to this period in the course which they h pursued, and yet they declared that they were bound to with draw their support upon this question. ..Those Hon. Gentle. men argued that if this measure werepassed, the interests of this country would be injured. They argued that what the Go vernment had hitherto done was exactly what was judicious and just, and, therefore, that for all time things should remain as they now were. But when he considered the arguments of some of his Hon. Friends near him—when he heard that some of his Honourable Friends had stated that the corn-law which was passed two years ago ought to be suspended—when he heard that sentiment cheered as if it were generally assented to by several Hon. Gentlemen of that particular questions, House—when he heard other lion. Members state their opi nions that the corn-law might be modified in certain parti culars so as to meet the inconvenience which resulted to the country from its present shape—when he heard other Hon. Gentlemen who went some steps further and some who did not Members had said that this measure would he thought that shipping interest.—( Hear, hear.) But g th o ey qu w it o e u a ld s fi fa n r d up i o t i v i e t r h y es d e iffieult to account. for the reason why they resisted the motion which was then before the House.— he could show to the House that since the protective duties had been removed with regard to the shipping trade that trade had (Cheematerially( C h ee House.— rs.) . ) re prosperous.—( Cheers.) The Hon. Member become far mo was one of the Hon. Members who had joined for Donegal ' Hon. Members in this statement, and instanced particularly the Irish trade ; but in the year 1e42 the tonnage of trading vessels belonging to that country was 2,600,000 in 1842. injure Hon. the and in 1845, 3,669,000, being an increase of 1,000,000. It had been stated by lion. Members opposite that the in crease of British shipping employed in the Baltic trade hadborne no proportion to the incre ase in our department of the shipping, circumstance this interest, and they argued from that the re moval of the duty up on Baltic timber had thrown the shipping trade into the hands of foreigners, and that they had in con sequence been benefitted more than the shipping of this country.—(Hear.) He considered this fact to be a strong reason why the present measure should be carried into eff e ct. He knew of no mode in which he could give that encourage ment mere effectually than by passing those measures. Hon. Members would see, if they looked at the' proportion of British shipping engaged in carrying corn as compared with other ar ticles. When the demand is immediate it must be sent by ships that are in port—they cannot wait for Britsih ships ar riving freighted with merchandise, and which could return laden with corn. And if Hon. Members looked at the proportion between the number of British and foreign ships employed in this trade, they would see that there was a vast prepon derance in favour of foreign shipping, lie thought nothing could afford a better chance to the shipowners whose interests had been advocated than by pasting the present measure. The number of ships laden with corn which passed through the Sound was 1,118 foreign, and 501 British ships. —( Hear, hear.) If, then, he wished to restore the employ ment of British shipping, let them give an increased freedom of trade to commerce, and by this means cause these articles which are casually sent to become regular freight. Another objection which is raised to this measure is that the diminution of the duty upon Baltic timber would injure the Canada trade, and our other colonies, which should be the object of our tenderest care. The Hon. Member who brought forward this argu ment had fallen into an error, which had been largely shared in the course of this debate. They imagined that advantages Igiven to one were necessarily disadvantageousto others, whereas a converse would be the case. What had been The effects of the alteration in the late tars as regarded the North American ; colonies. In the year 1842, 1,550 vessels cleared the ports with 540,000 tonnage ; in 1844, the tonnage was 789,000, and the number of vessels cleared was 2,284. This did not rest upon his own statement. A Commit tee had been appointed for the last year in which a question of a similar nature as the present was raised. One of the witnesses, a person much connected with the shipping trade, had stated that the benefit to the shipping interest by the operation of the tariff made a difference in favour of the British shipping, in their competition with the foreigner, equal to 30 per cent. lie was asked, with reference to the prices of freight, if 38s. or 40s. was sufficient remuneration, his reply wa., that if they - would insure him 385., he would contract to supply the country with any amount of tonnage. Another objection which had been raised was, that the shipowners found it difficult to maintain a competition which would remunerate them for their outlay, in consequence of the very expensive materials used in the con struction of their ships. Ship-building a short time since cost more than it would do at present, in consequence of the re duction of duty on timber. It had been stated that Baltic timber was necessary for the construction of a twelve years' ship ; but he seemed to forget, that haying once obtained this material, the value of the ship was thereby greatly enhanced. If he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could compare great things cith small, he could compare this class of shipowners with those innkeepers on the Great North Road, whose business had fallen away in conseque nce o f t h e diversion of the traffic by the railroads. It had also been urged that by adopting the present measures we should injure Canada —that country which we had flattered so before; for said Hon. members, are you not going to admit foreign corn into this country, and will not that be a breach of your compact made with them ? He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stood up for the importance of supporting the colonies of this country, and of doing everything likely to conduce to their ultirna.e benefit.—( Hear, hear.) They had no right however to com plain, if for a general benefit we introduced competition with those upon the same terms as with the mother country. It Canada complained, their answer would be that slie stood upon the same footing as the mother country, and therefore she had no right to complain. Another favourite argument Which had been used in the discussion of this question—a favourite mode when argument cannot be readily produced, is to draw some very extravagant picture of its effect. If free trade, said they, is to be adopted, we must have free trade in all things—the duty must be taken off tea, coffee, and all other commodities: He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not, however, adopt extreme opinions on this question, either on one side or the other ; he considered that it was impossible in any financial position to avoid in some measure a system of protective duties. When he advocated free trade, he did it under the considera tion that it was necessary for the purposes of revenue—for the preservation of the public morals and the public safety—that some restrictive duties should be retained. He did not conceive that in so doing he was at all deprecating a system of free trade. He viewed this question in the same light as he would the question of civil liberty. In that case it was necessary for the preservation of the public safety and morals that there should be some restrictive and prohibitory laws. Other argu rnente have been adduced to prove that the repeal of the corn laws would materially affect the conditon of the agricultural labourer. They have supposed that by tire introduction of• competition with the agriculture of other countries we were likely to be overwhelmed by foreign agriculture produce. This question had been ably argued in the course of the debate. He would not trouble the Howse with the recapitu lation of those arguments, but he would merely call the earnest attention of the House to two cases which these experiments had been tried, and he would give the result of those experiments, and he would chew the ad vantages which it afforded to the country. In the reign of Charles 11. the agricultural interests of this country seemed to have entertained opinions similar to those professed by indi viduals in connexion with the agricultural interest at the present day, and they were also deeply affected by the imports of articles which came into competition with them. In the preamble to an Act passed in that reign it was stated, that whereas certain lands of an inferior quality in this country cannot be so well employed as in fattening cattle, therefore be it enacted, that no cattle shall be imported, and those per sons who shall at any time import or cause to be imported any cattle from that country into England shall be subject to cer tain penalties which it was not necessary for him to read. At that period it was curious to refer to the arguments which which were used for the purpose of giving to this country as entire and complete monopoly. The historian tells them that there were great and general murmurs at that time, complain ing of the great injury sustained by the agriculturists of that country in consequence of the importation of cattle, which were bred in Ireland with scarcely any trouble and expense ; and if some enactment did not take place, the breeding of cattle in England would be given over, and thereby the rents would be decreased, whilst the rent in Ireland would rise to a considerable extent, and this could only be avoided by an Act of Parliament." Some members of the agriculturists of that rime, Lord Clarendon tells them, complained that they had not " land bad enough to breed cattle upon," and that ap peared to he the case in many counties. However, in the face of those Hon. Members, the Bill was carried through the House, limiting the importation of cattle. In the House of Lords, the resolution was carried with all expedition, and it was curious the Duke of Buckingham was at the head of those who favoured the Bill with most marvellous concern.— (Loud laughter.) When that measure passed, about seven years afterwards, a most distinguished man in that country, writing to the Lard Lieutenant, said " That the cattle which were brought over from the Irish coil would in future be brought from Rouen and Lisbon," The expectation of that Bill, that it would keep up the rent of land in England, was proved by those who were most capable of judging that it had not in the slightest degree that effect. There was another case which proved the great value of admit ting a competition with them. It was perfectly well known that up to the period of the union Ireland was treated as a foreign country ; and that since then, the importation of corn and cattle were freely admitted ; and notwithstanding the value of agricultural commodities considerably increased, up to the period of 1841. After the union, a free intercourse was es tablished between that country and Ireland, and the corn of Ireland was freely admitted into the market of England in competition with their own corn. It must be borne in mind that at that particular period the quantity of corn grown in England was proportionate with the population—( Hear hear)—lreland then sent large quantities of corn to this coun try for home consumption to so great an extent that it am mounted to one million quarters per annum, for the maintenance of the population of England. That importation gradually increased until it amounted to three millions.and four millions quarters annually. If those persons used the argument that the importation of corn would ruin the agriculturists of England, what would they say of that fact when the admission of corn from Ireland was permitted into England. If they could sustain the introduction of agricultural produce from Ireland at a period when their population was not snore than fifteen millions without injury, what danger had they now to fear with the increased improve ment in agricultural knowledge, and with an increased popu ei in the United Kingdom, amounting to twenty-seven millions ? Why, from the date of the union, they may date the great improvement which had taken place in agricultural science in that country. They found that in the very year that the free admission of Irish corn took place, there were a greater number of Bills passed through that House connected with agricultural improvements than on any former occasion. —( Hear, hear.) They'also found that the gentlemen of Eng land paid greater attention to the improvement of agri culture than they were ever known to do before. They found too that the price of corn in England was not reduced by the importation which had taken place ; but, on the contrary, agricultural prosperity was growing from year to year. lf, therefore, as he arid before, that large quan tities of Irish corn were imported, without findings any possible effect, but when they found on the contrary, that competition led to permanent improvements, how could they argue that a small introduction of corn from the Continent could produce those disastrous effects which he had heard so often stated? But there was another remarkable circumstance in connexion with these two parts of the United Kingdom, Great Britain and Ireland. Which of the two countries was agriculture most advantageous to—Great Britain or Ireland ? No man present, he believed, would deny that the agriculture of Ireland, com pared with the agriculture of England, was deficient in an ex treme degree. How then would competition act with the two countries ? The corn prolucers in England brought to their aid exertions, intelligence, and energy, but in Ireland agriculture remained little better than it was many years ago, for competi tion was not known there, and the w ant of agricultural enterprise proved an injury to them, which was not felt in England. It was said by an Hon. Member that that measure would prove injurious to the people of Ireland. Why, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was sure, that his Hon. Friend would feel that the same results would take place in that country which competition had created in England. The measure was far from decreasing the value of property in that country. The stimulus that would be giver, to trade there, by increased de mand, would produce in that country, as it had in England, the effect of giving employment in agriculture, and also from the establishment of manufactures, which were so much required in Ireland.--( Hear, hear.) It had been stated, and it had been truly stated, by his Noble Friend, that the markets of this country were open to the world. If there was any prin ciple better understood, it was for the most part that a home market was necessary for the agricultural produce of that country. So far from causing injury, that measure would create employment in the increased competition that would take place in the extendel commercial intercourse which such a measure would create. He would confine himself to another topic. He had heard, during a great portion of that debate, different arguments used with respect to the inconsistency of public men.—(Loud ironical cheers.) He was an advocate for consistency.—( Similar cheers.) But does that consistency consist in adhering to principles which varied with the altered state of society?—( Hear, hear, and cheers from the free traders.) If in any one measure they adopted the principles of free trade, there was no good reason why they might not be adopted in another, at a subsequent period; and he would like to know what gentleman was there in that House who had not, at some time or other changed the opinions which he held? He knew none who had not, to some extent, changed their principles with respect to those laws. Were the Hon. Gentle men opposed to the measure, themselves agreed as to what course should be pursued ?—( Hear, hear.) Were they pre pared to maintain the principles which were entertained at the passing of those laws? and were they prepared to say that those laws ought to be permanent in the country ?—(Cheers. ) When they were prepared to show him a time when the repeal can be effected with greater advantage to the great body of the community, then he would be prepared to join them ; or would the Hon. Gentlemen show him a time when resistance to the repeal of the corn- law would be attended with less danger or chance of success ? They were threatened with a great calamity in consequence of the failure of the potato crop, and they were bound to look forward to the effects which that fa ilure was likel y to produce in the produce of future years. And though his Hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire had produced from his garden a fine potato, grown from one of the diseased roots, yet there were other experiments made b y scientific men different on a more extensive scale, which le ad to very results. He had seen accounts from North America, where the disease had now prevailed for thre consecutive years, and he found that in the present year the failure in several parts of that country was fully equal to that w hich prevailed in many districts in Ireland.--( Hear. ) What happened in other countries might also happen in their own, and it was right that they should not forego the opportunity of providing beforehand a supply which would be able to protect them from the effects of such a calamity. They should also recollect that a f a il ure i n t h e crops had very generally prevailed upon the Continent, and they must naturally infer that they would experience a diffi culty in obtaining a sufficient supply, rather than that they should be inundated with corn, as some Members have imagined. Did the House ever consider that the produce of 120,000 acres of wheat, were year by year required to support the growing population of the country, and did not that circumstance alone prove the necessity of making provision in time for the want which must press upon the ceuetry.—(llear, hear.) He, therefore, th Jught in a time of general distress and disaffection, by repealing the corn-laws, they would effectually provide for the happiness and comfort of the people. —( Hear, hear, cheers and counter cheers:) He was extremely sorry that in the course of that debate so many of his Hon. Friends should have expressed themselves in terms of strong disapprobation of the course pursued by her Majesty's Minis. tern.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted that those for whom he entertained -the sincerest respect, should have expressed them selves hastily, not merely with respect to the measures of the Government, but also with respect to the pet sonal conduct of his Right lion. Friends.—( Hear, hear.) He did not intend to retort those expressions, but his Right Hon. Friend,the MeMber for the University of Dublin (Mr. Shaw) made a speech which contained far more eloquent declamation than it did ar gument. He stated a principle, which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) cordially concurred in, viz , that it was the duty of au independent Member to maintain that course FEI3RUARI 25. 1848. which he believed to be right. Now he would only ask that Honourable Gentleman to allow to those who were the Ministers of the Crown the benefit of that principle, and that he would not heap upon them those oppro brious epithets which he had made use of, for acting on the very principle whieh he had laid down for his own guidance. He told them that the Ministers were the " most unstable of men," " infirm of purpose," and were " Cabinet jugglers." He had also made use of an observation, not very kind, to those with whom he had so long acted, and which did not display that judicial coolness which became a high judicial character.—( Hear, hear.) He called them " political cowards." He (the Chancellor) might be a political coward, for he had been afraid to maintain party consistency in oppo sition to the wishes and interests of the people ; and he bad been afraid to risk the subsistence of the empire for the sake of gratifying a party. If that were cowardice, it was that of which he had been guilty.—( Hear, hear.) He had turned his back upon his friends, but he had only done so in order to protect them from their own want of foresight. —( Hear, hear, and cheers, and counter cheers.) Seeing the storm a-bead, seeing the frightful effects which famine would produce in Ireland, he had not been ashamed to oppose himself to the danger.—( Hear, hear.) He begged to to 1 those Hon. Gentlemen that he painfully felt the ling of their good opinion ; he should ever remember with satisfaetion the period when they had been formally united, and he trusted that when their judgments had time to cool—( Ironical cheers) when they shall see the dangers with which the country had been threatened, notmerely in prospective bat in reality—when they shall be aware of the necessity which existed to make pro vision for those dangers, he trusted he knew enough of them to believe that—however inconsistent it might appear with their present opinions —they would admit that they have been wrong, and that the Government had adopted the best course for the preservation of the general interests of the country.—(Chedr.) Mr. W. B. FEItItAND believed that he was perfectly is order in alluding to the petition that had been presented to the House a few evenings ago by the Noble Lord the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire. The House would remember, that as far back as 1843, he li id-stated in that House, that the Anti-Corn-law League had y purchased signatures t o th e petitions which they had got up at a shilling a hundred.—(L aughter.) Now he (Mr. Ferrand) was well aware that when the Noble Lord presented those petitions he might no doubt have believed that the signatures ware genuine; but he (Mr. Ferraud) was prepared to prove, if his statement were denied, that the working men whose signature-, were affixed to those peti tions were obliged by the master manufacturers to attach their names, and if they refused to do so, that the consequence of their re fusal would be the sacrifice of their daily bread._ (Hear, hear, and cries of "Oh ! oh !") He was indebted to th e H on. Member for Montrose for the able statement which he gave of the modus operandi which was resorte Ito in the working of this tyrannical system. That tion.Member said it was a regulation of the master - manufacturers in Scotland, that if a workmen left one manufactory in consequence of a dispute with his employer the owner of another manufactory would not employ him. The consequence of which was that the most abject slavery and subservience was created. The Hon. Member stated that that was a glorious combination. Now he (Mr. Ferrand) "was prepared to say that that combination existed to as great an extent in Lancashire and Yorkshire, and he had no hesitation in saying that there was no man in the employment of any of the members of the Anti-Corn-law League who dared to refuse his signature to the petitions which emanated from that body.—(Cries of " Oh! oh !") He would ask the Hon. Gentlemen who advocated the doctrines of free-trade; and the Noble Lord, the Member for London, if they believed that those signatures were genuine ? If they really considered them to be the bona fade acts of the parties whom they proposed to represent, they would have laid greater stress upon them. Now he (Mr. Ferraud) was prepared to prove that one man attached no less than 14,000 signatures.—(Loud cheers.) Attached 14,000 signatures to one of those petitions without ever having left his house, or employed any one even to write his name.—(Loud cheers.) That was the way that petitions were got tip by the Anti-Corn-law League, and were afterwards presented to that House with a flourish of trumpets.— (Loud cheers.) So much for petitions. Now, if the Hon. Member for Sheffield would allow him, he would allude to certain points which he had referred to in a speech he made a few evenings ago, when he interrupted the Hon. Member in rather a round manner.— (Laughter.) As, however, he had stated his views in a very inaccu rate and dictatorial - manner, he (Mr. Ferrand) deemed it Isis duty to give the statements of the Hon. Member a peremptory denial. The Hon. Member said that some Hon. Gentlemen had engaged to sub scribe 2,0001. for the recent election in the West Riding. Now, all he (Mr. Ferrand) would say on that subject was, that if the lion. Gentleman would find the individuals who were to subscribe this money, he would give him 201. per cent. for his trouble.—(Laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman also said that he (Mr. Ferrand) had published an able letter on that occasion. He believed that that statement was perfectly correct, ler no member of the League had ever yet been able to answer it.—(Laughter.) The Honour able Gentleman went on to say, that he (Mr. Ferrand) had succeeded in-his peculiar mission of creating a bad feeling between , manufacturers and those in their employment. If the Hon. Gentle man had read his (Mr. Ferrand's) speeches correctly, he would have discovered that his object was not to create bad feeling, but to expose and bring before the public gaze those cruelties and oppressions to which the, working men were subjected by th e master manufacturers —(Hear, hear.) - The Iron. Member stated also that his (Mr. Fer rel-I.l's) friends had repudiated his efforts. Now that he strongly denied. The Tory party, not the Conservative party (for, thank God, that party had ceased to exist )—(Laughter.) The Tory party had told hint that it was of no use to contest the West Riding of Yorkshire, for that the Anti-Corn-law League had, by their corrupt and unconstitutional proceedings, so swamped the constituency, that it was utterly useless to attempt a struggle. Ho told them in reple that they had truth and honesty on their side, and so far from retir ing from the contest, he advised them to persevere.—(Hear, hear.) 'He had no hesitation in saying that if Mr. Ed word Laseelles had boldly confronted the enemy, that a different termination would have followed ; or if Mr. Lane Fox had persevered in his efforts—if the battle had been fought out, he believed that Lord Morpeth would never have sat in that House as Member for the West Riding.—(Hear, hear, and ironical cheers.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite might say " Hear, hear," but he believed that any man who would weigh the circumstances of the case, could come to no other conclusion. The Hon. Gentleman(the Member for Sheffield) had said that the working men had repudiated his (Mr. Ferrand's) doctrines. Surely, if that were the case, the statement as to his having created bad blood betwen masters and the employed could not be correct. He would now tell the House what had ac tually occurred on the day of election. A friend of the Noble Lord's (Lord Morpeth) who sat on the hustings, cried out to the 8,000 people who were assembled on that occasion, to give three groans for him (Mr. Ferrand). Now, how was that met? Not one individual in that assembly responded to the call. Now, if it were • true that the working men had repudiated his doctrines, they would surely have made a response when they were called upon to give three groans for him. Honourable Members were aware that when he was in Yorkshire he had challenged the members of the Anti-Corn-law League to meet him to discuss the question of protection. He had given out that chal lenge in Leeds, Bradford, and Huddersfield, but no one had ever yet accepted that challenge. He would now repeat that challenge in that House, and he dared any of them to accept it. If they doubted his intention he would give it to them in writing. How then could they say, under such circumstances, that the working men had risen en masse fur free trade?—([Lear, hear, and cheers.) He would refer to tile disgraceful position in which don. Members on that side of the House appeared before the country. He remembered when the present Government first entered upon office, that the Noble Lord the Member for London asked the Right Hon. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury, who at that time came in by a majority of ninety-one," how he intended to conduct the affairsof the country The Right Hon. Baronet replied—" I am asked by the Noble Lord how I propose to carry on my Government"--and turning round to the -men who placed him in office, he said .. I will walk in the direct path and in the light of the British Con stitution." He (Mr. Ferrand) believed that It - was in the spirit of the Constitution that candidates, when aspiring to re present electors in Parliament, should explain to- their constitu encies what were the political principles by which they proposed to guide their conduct ; and not only that, but that they should be sub jected to a searching examination, so that their electors might be able to decide clearly what political principles their representatives adopted. When Parliament was last dissolved, the Sovereign had said that her intention in dissolving it was to ascertain the opinions entertained by the public on those points which were then agitating the country.—(ilear, hear.) There can be no doubt but such was the intention. Shortly afterwards, when he stood before the peop . e of Leeds, he heard the Noble Lord (Morpeth), on the 23d of June, 1841, giving expression to the following sentiments. -He said— " The struggle which I am now about to commence is one against monopoly, and it is not in the town-hall of Leeds that I am going to despair of a triumph." What was the - declaration of his Hon. Friend the Member far York shire, who was going to speak against the measure, and to vote against it also, and who had been deceived into seconding the ad dress ?—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Noble Lords and Hon. Gentle. men had once been charged with "thimble-rigging," but he thought they might with justice on the present occasion turn round and charge their accusers of apostacy, who threw out the bait of cheap corn and cheap bread, and humbugged the people with notions of free trade.--(Hear, hear, and laughter.) What, said the Hon. Gen tleman the Member for the borough of Leeds? He said, "Gentle men, stick fast by English agriculture in the first instance, and then try foreign agriculture."—(Hear, hear.) Now his (Mr. Ferrand's) advice to Hon. Members was, to stick by English agriculture.— (Hear, hear.) He had heard words used that evening not credit able, in his opinion, to the lion. Gentleman who uttered them —he alluded to the. Hon. Member for Montrose, who called the landlords " monopolists." Now, in reference to a former speech of that Hon. Member, he found that he had made use of the following language :—" Stick to English agriculture, because it is your interest to do 'so." Now if the Honourable Member were present, he would not ask him how he intended to vote, but he would say to him, if he was an Englishman, he should stick to English agriculture ; if he was an honest man, he would redeem the pledge lie had made to his constituents; and if he was an honour able men he would resign the scat he then held in that House, for he should not forget - that he once stood beneath the banner, on which was inscribed " Protection to native industry."—(Hear, hear.) He should then tell him, that if he betrayed his trust and deceived the people, it would add epithet to his appellation—namely, that of Ms honesty:—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Ile should next turn to the benches immediately behind the Treasury benches ; and he had no ' doubt but several Hon. Gentlemen were beginning to tremble in that quarter, and ask themselves, "Is It I that am alluded to ?" ( Laughter.) He alluded at the outset to the Hon. Member for Win chester—(Hear an I laughter)—and he begged to ask him how he had obtained his seat ?—(Hear, hear, and renewed laughter.) Had he forgotten the visit he paid to the Buckinghamshire farmers, the whie-drinking amongst them, the putting them on their backs, and the . " Hip, hip, hurraying," he created amongst them in favour of protection? (Hear, and shouts of laughter.) Did the Hon. Gentleman recollect all that, and how he subsequently marched in for li inchester with the free-traders e— o alfae . , h , e io a!;,? Was that a fair way of deciding an election e ?- jr -(C a r n ile if f lte ''' i i a s: i beer ) , He (Mr. Ferrand) loved honesty e guilty of such conduct as that to in c e "l eaned attention, he would ' masc.—Wear, hear, and cheers.) scorn to tread the floor of that The Hon. Member came before them, toedreking from the hustings, ready to stand or eels I:yprotection riculture.—(Cheers and laughter.) He recollecte I that on the 22d of February, 1842, the Ge man made a splendid speech in that House. He stood 11 1 i n er n e directly ntle in ftont of the o f fugal benches, and quoted Latin passages es by the page, in defence of protection --(Great laughter.) lie, next day, published the speech, corrected from the short-hand writers' notes, at Mr. Liddell's, Fall-mall, and presented liim (Mr. Ferrand) with a copy of it, which, with the permission of the House, he would then, for the first time, make use of.—(Hear, hear, and in creased laughter.) In that speech, the lion. Member declared, that if ever there was a scheme fraught with danger, and concocted by bad men for the destruction of their own interests or the interests of their country, they could not have hit on a better expedient than the cry of cheap food; and that the man would be mad, or something worse, who sided with such a cause.—(Great laughter.) Now he (Mr. Ferrand) was not going to say what the phrase, or komething worse, meant.—(Hear, hear, and Increased laughter.) The iion. i Member, in another part of his spe ech, said, t he question of the corn-laws was one that did not alone affect the constitution of that House, but also the constitution of the country. Now, he could tell him that the present question was one that affected his honour, and he was bound to give up his seat and appeal to his constituents anew.—(Hear, hear.) There was one more extract in ' the speech of the Hen. Gentleman, to w hich he begged to refer—it occurr e d i u the peroration.— (Laughter.) It was this-` I am resolved, far the good of the country and the preservation of its liberties, to stand by the landed interest., which is only another name for English interest, and I will uphold it by the best means in my power, and by voting for the measure of her Ma jesty's Ministers."—(Hear.) L et them mark that vote in favour of her Majesty's Ministers, but not against them, as he was bound to do on the present occasion. —(Hear, hear.) That then, was the speech of the lion. Member for Winchester, who now sat behind the First Lord of the Treasury as one of his sup porters.—(Laughter and cheers.) There was an old proverb, but a very tree one, and in very familiar use in his (Mr. Ferrand's) part of the country, and which, perhaps applied in the present case. It was this," That birds of a feather flock together."—(Great laughter.) He did not know whether the Hon. Member for Cirencester was in his place at present, but if he were he hope.] he would tell the House the place he did really represent.—(Laughter.) That Hon. Member was now what he would call the last Lord of the Treasury that had been elected. Upon the 14th of August, 1845, that Hon. Member went down to his constituents, and made a speech, from which he (Mr. Ferrand) would here read an extract. The lion. Member then read the extract, which was to the effect that the speaker said be could not, without dishonour and loss of character, vote for the abolition of the corn-laws.—(Hear.) He would next call attention to the speech of the lion. Member the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. That speech was certainly one of great ability, and very business-like, but he feared it failed in carrying the House with it.—(Laughter.) But at the very time he delivered it, he (Me. Ferrand) knew that the Right lion. Gentleman had at that very mo ment in his red box an address from his constituents, calling upon him to resign his seat.—(Great laughter and cheering.) Ile (Mr. F.) would not say why the Right Hon. Gentleman had been called upon to do so, but he knew the reason why his constituents had made this demand.—(Cheers.) The next Hon. Member to whom he would call attention was the Member for Wiltshire, the Secretary for War, and he would say to that Hon. Member that he thought his honour toe was at stake.—(Hear, hear.) About a e ear ago that Hon. Member went down to his constituents, and In asking for a renewal of first theirsupeort, lie reminded them that it was twelve years mince he appeared before them in the position of a candidate for their suffrages —that it was true that all men were liable to he mmake ee n k li e s d - takes, but that in reference to the corm-laws theagriculture upon prohibition as giving great stability to of this country.—(Laughter and cheers .) r W Well he he ee n s e deal with the Right Hon. Baronet theSeceteei, to Home Department, who had also recently b his constituents, and he (Mr. Fe his personal honour at st ake Baronet that Ito was be cons tituents, and the moment ta w te ca fe ni r e the t° obliged ko before Ferrand) wo uld ask the Right Hon. Baronet did he not stand pledged to n his constituents, and was not egedHen begged to tell the Right lion. bound to o . re d e em the pledge he had made to his nn be had changed his opinions upon this d in honour to resign h i s seat , in order that his constituents might ftuest i ' a . he wesiUn be fairly and honestly represented.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. - I - errand) had read the Right lion. Baronet'sspeech, and he steal Isay it ought to have been printed and circulated for the benefit of the country, as the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord the Treasury had done upon a former occasion, when he was opposed to the Whigs.—(Cheers and laughter.) At that time he (Mr. Ferrand) was only in the rank and file of politics, but he received a large number of those speeches, and he took care to have them most industriously circulated at a penny each.— (Laughter.) Why, the Hon. Baronet had sent them to him he did not know, but he knew not from whom else they could come. But in reference to this speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home De partment, he would just quote one or two passages which appeared to have been received by his constituents with great laughter and cheers. The Right Hon. Baronet was reported to have' said upon that occasion, that "he would never shrink from the expression of public opinion."— (Laughter.) Then he (Mr. F.) would say, "Go down again to your constituents."—(Laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet went on to say, " The Whigs are down, to rise no more." — (Laughter.) Should O'Connell or Roebuck or Bowring dare to say that the democratic principle should ever take the lead in this great empire."—(Great laughter.) Now, let him (Mr. Ferrand) a.sk who supported Lthe Right Hon. Baronet in this House ? — (Cheers.) In what position now stood " Roebuck, and liowring, and O'Connell, the conspirator ?"—(Renewed laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet went on to say that his conviction was that the full development of the democratic principle would be destructive to this country. Should that unforttr ate day ever dawn upon the political horizon when the principles of democracy will be paramount, degraded indeed will be our fate,— • " The day when thou, imperial Troy ! must bend, And see thy warriors fall, thy glories end.' But I will add,— " May Ibe cold before that dreadful day. Pressed with a load of monumental clay.' " (The mock heroic tone in which the Hon. Member read this extract convulsed the House with laughter.) And the Hon. Baronet then con tinued to sly, after this poetical effusion,that it remained now for his eon stituents to decide whether they would return him to Parliament or not."—(Laughter.) Ile (Mr. Ferrand) would like to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether he now csnsidered himself the representative of those constituents?—(Hear, hear.) One more quotation from those election speeches and he had done with them, but the last was the severest and most tremendous cut of all.—(Laughter.) It was from the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury—(Laughter) — and he would tell that Right Hon. Baronet that his personal honour was also at stake.— (Cheers ) The Hon. Member then proceeded to read extracts ftom a speech made by the . Right Hon. Baronet to his constituents, which were to the effect that he had adhered to the promises he had made upon the last oc eaSiOnhe appeared before them. " Who paid the tithes ? lie would not say altogether, but principally, the landowners of this country; and if corn could be produced by other landowners at a cheaper rate, it would not be just to the English landowner to admit their corn on equal terms." This was at the poll in the borough of •Tamworth, and after these pledges made by the Right Hon. Baronet they returned him to this House. He (Mr. Ferrand) en the other hand, said that the Right Hon. Baronet was wrong when he violated his pledges to the University of Oxford when he resigned his seat. He would prove to him that he Was bound, in honour, to resign his scat now. What did he say at the poll on the 3d of June?—" You placed me in the proud position of your repre sentative in Parliament, and you may depend on it I will be faithful to my professions. I will remain until ingly devoted to the Con servative principles, which in the face of this constituency I have professed. I will, at the same time that r pay due respect to those differing from me in religious opinion, uphold and defend the insti tutions of my country." The Right Hon. Baronet pledged, in the face of this constituency, of his own free will, to stand by his prin ciples ; and he (Mr. Ferranti) called for him—not as Prime Minister, not as the leader of the Conservative party, eras the man who once led them, but as an honest Member of that house— toresign his seat and go down to his constituency.—(Cheers from the Minis terial side.) He had said that he had made his last quotation, but would the House allow him to throw in as a kind of make-weight the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet's colleague, Captain A'Court, who had said " It is certain that the prosperity of Tamworth depends on the prosperity of the agiculturist, and I will never consent to take from the British farmer the protection he reluires.—(Hear, hear.) . I will not reduce the English labourer to the same level and con dition as the continental labourer." What figure did he cut when he looked at those Hon. Gentlemen—honourable by courtesy, and honourable by their characters and principles—who still held his opinions. Could he and his colleagues look that House in the face, and say that they had conducted themselves with common honesty ? They should not tell him that they accepted office not with the view of carrying this measure through that House. They were not bound to carry it; but when they found that they were unequal to carry out the principle of protection, they were bou.id as honest and honourable men to appeal to the country—(Cheering from the Ministerial side) —and to ask their con s tit uenc i es f or th e i r a pproval of their conduct. If the Bight Hon. Baronet had pursued that course at first, they might have rallied round him a great part of the country ; but now the population of Great Mifflin and Ireland had a contemptible opinion of his positions.—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) He would ask, how had the Right Honourable Baronet been supported during this discussion ? He (Mr. Ferrand) knew that lion. Mem bers, who were on terms of personal friendship with the Members on the Treasury benches, wept for them when they rose to speak, so much did they feel for their depraved condition.—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) He knew some lion. Gentlemen, opposed to the principle of protection, who had made some endeavours to address the House, but their consciences and their hearts had failed them. The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath felt his case so bad that he broke down in his speech —so much for the democratic Member for Bath. The lion. Member fbr Bolton had calmly said a few words, but had ventured to do no more. Without following this subject any further, he would say that no man, to whatever party he might belong, would say that this House had any right, in common honesty, to decide this question.—(Cheers from the Ministerial . side.) It was not at all improbable that au address ;night be moved in the House, praying her Majesty to send them where they ought to have been long since—before their constituencies. If that did happen to be the case, he would tell Hon. Members the course he intended to pursue was as soon as the division was over to look at the list and and the names of those men who were snugly ensconced behind the Right Hon. Baronet and who voted for this measure. He would then go to Peel's coffee-house in Fleet-street — (Laughter)—and look over all the country papers of Great Britain and Ireland and see how the pledges of lion. Members to stand by their principles of protection had been redeemed; and when the ques tion came before the House again he would show up those parties who had failed to do so, and then even the most democratic would be inclined to go back to their constituent es. It was a most extra ordinary fact that during the whole of that discussion the mannfac turing population of this country had hardly even been alluded to. They were told by Hon. Members that as the population increased it was necessary to extend the manufactures. What was the effect on the moral and social condition of the people ? He would go back 60 years and bring before them the sufferings of the manu facturing population. It was his intention to read one or two brief extracts from the debate of April 3, 1816. Mr. Ro bert Gordon said, that the parish officers in London contracted with the manufacturers for the disposal of their children, and they agreed to make one idiot for every 19 sane children, and these they sent to be at the disposal of the manufacturers, and that was now the course adopted by the new poor-law. The late Sir R. Peel—(Cries of " Or der, order.")—had said that the insane were most employed, and he had more than 1,030 of them as kis apprentices. He had also said that young children were dragged from their beds, some hours be fore daylight, and confined for fifteen hours, and put to labour that no children of eight or nine years of age could bear. Only three years after, the present Prime Minister had said, that it was true that children were employed in Lancashire for fifteen or seventeen hours at a stretch, and that often occurred three times in a week, and on Sundays. They were employed from six in the morning till twelve at night in cleaning the machinery. He says that the popu lation spent their wages on Sunday in the most profligate manlier, and got beastly intoxicated with ale and beer. Both boys and girls drank gin and other liquors to an enormous extent. The consump tion of opium was also very great in the shape of pills, laudanum, and other kinds of opiates. The labour was also stated to be very severe, being to the extent of twelve hous without intermision. In a word, besides the evils here described, the workers were repre sented as breathing continually foul air filled with fine dust, which debilitated the frame and laid the foundation of a great variety of distressing and complicated disease. The women were obliged to attend the factory to the neglect of their domestic duties, and the children were in consequence neglected, while opiates and other drugs were administered to lull them in the absence of those who ought to attend to their wants. The heavy and exhausting toil of the parents wera visited on the children, and a general physical de generation took place. The Hon. Gentleman was continuing to read the extract further, when he was interrupted by Mr. ROEBUCK calling out " Question, question," Mr. FERRAND, with much warmth, said that it was the ques tion. The question was the increase of manufactures, and the propo sition to sacrifice agriculture to benefit the manufactures. It was, therefore, right for him to show the effects of the manufacturing system on the working population—(Hear, hear)—and he would pursue his own course in spite of the Hon. and Learned Member until called to order by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Speaker of the House. He did not wonder at the Honourah`e and Learned Member for Bath calling out order but he (Mr. Ferrand) would call him, if he was capable, to attend to what he had to read.—(Hear, hear.) That Hon. and Learned Gen tleman professed to represent the people ; but he seemed, like the three celebrated tailors of Tooley-street, to represent all England, as centred in himself.---(Cheers and laughter.) The Hon. Member then proceeded to read the extract he was employed on when the inter ruption took place, which represented the disease and mortality that pervaded the children who were engaged in factory labour. He would now, he said, ask the attention of Hon. Members on the Op position side of the House, representing the Anti-Corn-law League, to the name of the gentleman from whom he (Mr. Ferrand) had been quoting. If was from Mr. Rathbone Greg, a great authority on their side, and a leader of the Anti-Corn-law League, who were now call ing on the Government to give the death-blow to agriculture, to en able the great millowners of the north to use up the surplus popula tion that might thereby ,be created in the agricultural districts. — (Hear, hear.) That gentleman says that this has been the case — and could Hon. Gentlemen have a better authority ?—(Bear, hear.) There was another witness on this question, to whom, he would refer. Doctor Kay Shuttleworth confirmed the whole of the statement ; yet this authority was one belonging to this side of the question, Ile says the working people of Manchester are border ing upon savage life—that the moral check regarding the increase of population has no effect upon them—and that the population are generally in a most deplorable condition. He also states that the ob ject of importing labourers from the agricultural districts, was to break down prices in the manufacturing labour markets. lie read another extract from Dr. Cooke Taylor, of Belfast, who is also a good authority with the League. It was takenfrom tbe League newspaper when it was the Anti. Carn-law League Circular, and is from No. 96 of that publication. It states that the writer had seen scenes of the greatest misery and wretchedness in the huts - .a' Ireland during the prevalence of the cholera—that he had witnessed the cellars of Liverpool, and been through the narrow and dirty wynds of Glasgow, but nowhere had hewitneseed misery equal to that in Lancashire. It w as there, and there only, that exti eine of wretchedness was to be seen. It was there that he beheld the immolation of th, population of the country. And he (Mr. Ferrand) would say the same—it was an immolation of the work ing classes at the altar of Mammon a facriflee to the demon of wealth.—(Hear, hear.) Yes, the best of the population were immo lated ; and he would say, advisedly, murdered by the factory system. Let them establish competition as they were seeking to carry out the principle of free-trade, and see how it Would operate in the midland counties. Mr. Greg had stated that the hosiers of this country, though protected by a duty of 20 per cent., could not successfully compete with the Saxony manufacturers. Oh, oh," from Mr. Hawes.) The'Hon. Member for Lambeth might express dissent from this, but lie (Mr. Ferrand) was prepared to prove it ; and if this was the case, under the present amount of protection, what would become of the hosiers of Nottingham and Leicester, under a complete system of free trade ? Competition would be enfeebled, and ruin would inevitably ensue.—(Hear.) And this was the rdsuit of their free-trade principles, backed as it was with a protective duty of 20 per cent. Even with this duty they were reduced to this frightful state of misery..—(Cheers.) One fact proving this mass of misery, which he had brought before the House was worth a thousand statements of three months' converts.— (Continued cheering.) It was in the year 1843, that he (Mr. Ferrand) presented petitions to that House signed by upwards of 25,000 frame-work knitters in the coun ties of Nottingham, Leicester, and Derby, showing the frightful suf ferings they were undergoing, and praying the House to prohibit the importation of foreign hosiery until at least foreign countries took the prohibition off English hosiery.—(Hear, hear.) When he had pre sented this petition, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies (who, unfortunately for the Government, could not find a place in England to return him to this House, and whose absence he (Mr. Ferrand) deeply regretted), employed Mr. Muggridge as a Com missioner to go into the Midland Counties, to inquire whether the statements of the frame-knitters were true; and now he (Mr. Ferrand) would read to the House extracts from the report furnished by Mr. Muggridge.—(The Honourable Member then read extracts the purport of which was as follows :—That daily labours extended from fifteen to eighteen hours—their wages were as low as 3s. 7d ; a great number of children were also Employed, and one-third of the married women were working on frames. The employment of these women effected a great reduction in wages. And, now, he would ask the opinion of the [louse whether this was not a frightful state of things ? Mr. Muggridge had examined Dr. Shaw, an emi nent medical practitioner of Leicester, and he said that the mortality of the children under five years of age was about 49 per cent of the whole population. This was owing to the neglect of the mothers, who were employed in the stocking trade, they not being able to have them out as in some others in the manufacturing branches. In speaking of the debility of the framework-knitter, he said that was caused from deprivation of the necessaries of life, their common articles of subsistence being bread, cheese, gruel, and tea, but the latter to no great extent. They had earned ' greater wages in former yea rs ce _a among a great deal less labour. It was also a too common practic e the poorer classes to administer Goilirey's cordial to m i fa. work.tbe object being to keep the child quiet while the mothe a r t He was now going to justify his statement, _I-b ac , _,..g wbolesalo i districts. system of murder was carried on in the manufacturing Ile quoted from an eminent suron, exaniinedji,ryee-.(ur. drops lan. Ile had known infants killed by administering Tee infants went off danum, but there was nothing quietly, not like grown He murdered their children by peoples.'" about that he could prove that, owing to the existing starvation, the poor r e a h insidious ad mannedd led t In wholesale. He knew one fainily.inwdhiic!iafonulor The infants that die the same way. this report . Mr. Mudge, became pale, tremulous, and stink. of He would ggasrik th Be HOLM w Of C O MMOIIS to pyid at last and to read it , for, lie would ley his li that they had nev er heard anything more frightful than the whole of this evidence. And now let them hear what the pawnbrokers said, and that the Hon, limber for Durham were i n hi s place. he only (U. r F err and) perhaps knew the reason for that Ho n . Member's ie b . er T , s .6 scnco _ (Lmli ater and cheers) —but were he pr esen t , he thought that the lion. Member would admit that the misery of Goatacre was nothing to this. They pledged their blankets in the mo rning for a subsistence, and brought them out again at night, at an expense of 3,1. per week. The social condition of the framework knitters was, owing to the depression under which the trade had la boured for years past, most miserable. Their dwelling-houses were of the worst and most unhealthy character ; clothing they had none, and public worship was altogether neglected by them. Afterwards the commission was to inquire into the condition of the manufacturing districts, and did time allow him, lie would produce frightful statement with regard to the manufacturing system in the county of York. He had exhibited the midland counties in a state bordering on savage life—so s Nage that they were even indifferent to the murder of their offspring. Were they to be told that when the manufacturing population were in such a frightful state as that, would the agriculturists consent to hand over the agricultural labourer to the tender mercies of the manufacturers, and allow them, in the language of Mr. Cooke Taylor, to be mutilated, that certain cotton lords might grow tither ? The Bight Hon, Gentleman the