The Sun. — London, England, 1846-04-22 00:00:00

come necessary, and that no stain was thrown upon Mr. Day's , pooo.,anti came up in the Oriental, ten days after. Letters rhaeacter, The lion. Member the n wer•t on to say the , . ;she ! and vipers were thrown on one side, as the delivery of that Nicholls had ascribed Mr. Day's dismissal to his n o tv,,rk aid not permit their delivery. There were papers for the equal to the duties of the ollitte The House can conceive North and South American Coffee-house—for the Jerusali m what must have been Mr. Dev'e astonishment when, after hay- Coffee-house—fur Grindley and Co., Cornhill, and various iingreeeived the letter calling upon him to resign within a others; and it appeared that all those letters were detained in t ; r toight of the date of that letter, he heard from Air. Nicholls consequence of that work, or job, whichever it was called. that, the establishment to w s a u s ec r e e e d d uC h e i d m , and that Colonel Wade The letter-carriers had been threatened to be reported if they na4 been ' appointed in the office whieb he did not assist in the delivery of the work, however attentive oo hel d Assistant-Commissioner.Colonel Wade had they might have been to their public duties. He (Mr. T. •'"vn appointed to succeed him, and he was rather inclined Duncombe) did not believe that the Postmaster-general was to think that the prolongation of the appointment had been acquainted with those facts. In answer to his observations made to suit C o l one l W a d e ' s c o nvenience. Mr. Day had con- it %multi be said that these letter-carriers collected the informa upued t o act es A ss i s t an t-C omm i s sioner for nearly two months tiers for the week out of official hours. He was happy to say Otter he had reseived the letter requesting him to resi:cn ; and I that such an answer would be quite false, for the information Ie order to complete the inconsistency which had been dis - was eelleeted during the delivery of the letters. They might haled throu g h ou t this transaction, it would appear that, from a be told that these men had an interest in collecting this infer triad er e n di ng f r o m th e 31st of March to the 18th of April, mation. They had a commission on th e sale of the work—a e district over which Mr. Day had presided was left with- fact very discreditable to the establishment.—( Hear, hear.) 1 )14 any superintendence. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite Let them have a fair remuneration for their labour, and let L ad state t, that no fault was attributable to him, but no reason them not be paid by this paltry, miserable, jobbing work. possible t lictlbeen given for being so peremptorily called upon to resign. was well known that the parties who had the least „` Could not have been that it was intended to reduce the chance of anything like favour in the Post-office Kelly were and Co. w ent of the officers employed, er to reduce the establish- who could sell most of the works of Messrs. an teen of the Poor. law Commission ; w hy, th ere h a d If the letter-carriers did not collect the informatiownar.euire stopped , no reduction in the Assistant Commissioners, other men were put, on in their places, and so much and the Board had, in fact , been materially increased from their week's earnings. The petitioner further stated that the appointment of a fourth Chief Commissioner. I the public stores, such as ink, paper, pens, &c., were freely e lion. Gentleman then read a le t ter which Mr. Day hed used for the purposes of this work. What right had they to could not to the Duke o f Wellin g ton ' when he foun d that he use the public stores ? And it was also stated by the petitioner ;Onald not succeed in obtaining redress elsewhere. The letter that the revenue had ben defrauded, by means of the sending complained that Mr. Day had been dismissed ; but with the out of the circulars for this work by the letter-carriers, with mere excuse—a vague generality of public service and public 9—the public would not feel that he had been dismissed with such a proceeding as this? It was a fraud on the revenue. The petitioner also stated that Mr. Frederick Kelly had in without a cause on the contrary, they would i e m ntertain suspi cions that some The Hon. strutted the letter-carriers how , to evade the Hawking Act on char a was reserved against h Gentleman then resumed b reading a motion, of which he the sale of the w Directory.' The books were left at the doors of gentlemen, and if they were not at home the book was left. Propriety given notice, and proceeded to say there would be no im- Pr o ,opriety in referring this subject to a - Committee of Inquiry. If the money was given for it, nothing further was said about -mere existed great similarity between the case of Mr. Da y it; but if no money was forth-coming the book was removed. Ind the ease of Mr. Parker, which had been br ou g ht before He said that this was hawking. Mr. Kelly had also, on his the H ouse. With respect to Mr. Day, he had repeate dl y own authorit y , stop p ed the wa g es of letter-carriers for debts aPitlied t o th e P oor -l aw Commissioners without obtaining any due to Kelly and Co. by the letter-carriers on account of this Satisfactory reply. Assisting Comm i ssi oners had been dis- Directory, and the petitioner also stated that he had witheld kissed at different times under circumstances which exposed the resignations of letter-carriers until he had paid himself for them to the most disagreeable suspicions. There had been no the debts due by those carriers. He could prove cases where Orsturbance about Mr. Day's case, all had been c onducted with the resi g nation of letter-carriers had been detained because the the strict es t propriety,. and he felt that both Mr. Day and Mr. individual owed Mr. Kelly money, Mr. Kelly saying that he parker had met great injustice at the hands of the would not give in the resignation until be was paid ; and the C ommissioners. His belief was, that when these letter-carrier doing no work, let it be recollected. He said that t wo cases, with all the facts connected with them , such a p rocee d n g was a fraud on the revenue— ( Hear, hear ) caould come before the public, it would be quite —and it was discreditable for the Government to sanction or I mpossible that the House could again vote the salaries protect a person of this sort. There are also 150 copies of the of th e Poor-law Commissioners without having first investi- Directory sold for the use of the letter-carriers, and paid for Sated an inquiry into their general mode of administering the out of the revenue, at the same time that the use of the work paor-laws o f t h e country. Th e H ouse was pro b a bl y an are o f was forbidden to the letter-carriers, on the ground of its occa tt Mode in which the Rochdale board of guardians had been sioning loss of time to the person using them. The work was Justified by a d ec i s i on o f t h e C ourt o f Q ueen ' s B enc h, i n sold, but never used, as the looking for the address would cc 14heYing an order of the Poor-law Commissioners. They cupy so much time that orders were given that they been compelled, after every imaginary fencing on the part were not to be used. Let the Government not come of o t their co unse l, at l ast re l uctant l y to con f ess t h at t h ey were down and say, as a defence, that these volumes a error. Th e y were o bli ge d to admit that the general order, were necessary as guides for the delivery o f the letters. a d d ressed to the Rochd a l e b oar d o f g uardians, was illegal, inas- This monopoly had been the means of r u inin g various p arties fiuc h that, aft e r h av i ng b een s i gne d by one commissioner, it who had attempted to get up Post-office Directories, and the ; a s carried by a messenger to M r . L ew i s , to receise a second public were in consequent dep rived of the benefit of competi natuoe. If then the Commissioners were wrong in one case , lion. He wished to know wh y it was that the p ublic were to t he g natural inference would be that they were also wrong in be deprived of the benefit of this competition ? The effect was tukther cases , wh i ch escaped the pu bli c not i ce . He believed that the public had to pay 30 s. for the Post - office Directory. that if a Committee were appointed to inquire into the which any bookseller in Paternoster-row could, if the same g e neral mode of administering the Poor-law Amendment Act , advanta g es were g iven them that were g iven Mr. Kell y , su pp l y there would be no difficulty in proving that mu-h mismange- for 12.3. 6d. It was a just ground of complaint, that the public w ent existed. It would be found that the Poor-law Commis- could have for 12s. or 15s. that for which they now paid 30s. stoners had neglected to comply with many of the provisions —( Hear, hear.) Mr. Robson, who hsd attempted to publish contained in the Poor-law Amendment Act. In the Rochdale a Directory, had been ruined by the interference of the Post ;ace, for instance, where there was an order required for the office authorities; and by a return which had been made to the I Roature of two Poor-law Commissioners, it had been signed House, it appeared that Mr. Kelly had purchased the copyright b P e ne commissioner, and then by the secretary, which ren- of Mr. Robson's work Now he ( Mr. Dencombe) had withinasmuch the express provi,ien of the Act. The services of the which threw some light on that transaction. ( The d ia r etary, as recordine officer, had been in a measure entirely Hort. Gentleman here read the letter in question, which .Pensed with. He ' ( Mr. Christie ) had always been a strong was to the effect, that Mr. Robson had been driven to ruin 'flendof the Poor-law Amendment Act, and had always voted and insanity, and his property destroyed, through the undue for i t • The object of Isis present motion was not directed influence of the Pest-office authorities, and that he had in con against the poor-laws, but against the Poor-law Commissioners. sequence died in a workhouse. Mr. Robson applied to the " could not tell what Would be the result of the present Post-office authorities to place him on the same footing with motion, but whatever it might be, he felt sure that the state- Mr. Kelly, but he did not succeed in the application, and meets he had made would go forth to-morrow to the public, though he had gone to enormous expense in getting up his work, it , 'they would be the judges. They would draw this inference he was obliged to abandon it, and part with it to Mr. Kelly atomattached the cases of Mr. D a and Mr. Parker, that no officer under most disadvantages circumstances. This letter was 'ached to the Poor-law Commissioners was at present safe signed by Mr. Knapp. On the return to which he (Mr. fromtheir the arbitrary manner in which the Commissioners exerted Duncombe) had alluded, it was set forth that Mr. Kelly oeir power. bought the copyright of Mr. Robson, and its the puff issued by _The motion was t h en rea d f rom t h e Chan., when Mr. Kelly, it was raid that Mr. Robson's Directory, in 1840 , sir JAMES GRAHAM rose and said he could assure the contained a number c-f blunders, which he explained and e°li• and Lear ne d G ent l eman w h o h a d j ust sa t d own , th a t it pointed out. But if the House would give him (Mr. Duncombe) e l :tad tak e? ' the o p p or t un i t y of asking him whether or not it a Committee. lie would engage to prove that in the Directory of (Sir his intention to oppose the metio n before the House, h e last year there were not less than 16,000 errors.—( Hear, hear.) James Graham) should have informed him that it was this was in the Directory so much puffed, and which had a Ot d his intention to have opposed it. On a former occasion he now total possession of the field. All the rival Directories had t old the House that in his opinion it was utterly i m pos s ible failed, and were given up, and this was the only Directory in d fu et . the Poor-law Commissioners p ro perly to di s charge th e i r London—of course the only one that could exist under the te at unless they possessed the unfettered liberty of discharg- present system, it being impossible to compete against Mr. itgtheir Assistant Commissioners, and other officers, whenever Fells', with the Post-office servants at his back, to assist him. th ey wh thought proper, without being held responsible to any In the mean time the public were suffering. But let them look ,:er power. H e h a d come to the fixed conclusion that the at the di-satisfaction that prevailed among the servants of the % --e i of Mr. Park e r had been thoroughly inquired into, and he establishment From 400 to 500 individuals there were almo s t could not see a n y di s tinction between that case and the case of in a state of insubordination, arising from the duties imposed 00 1 •• Day. wo e Hou-e had decided by a majority on a former on them in reference to this Directory. That alone was a e —e c'ion and it was not his intention to call upon the House to fact that should show the dangerous state of the establishment. • 41, ae to a division on the present occasion. He was willing at He had had several deputations of the men waiting on him, in ;Tee to acced e to the motion of the BOR. Gentleman. The r e f e ren c e to this matter, within the last forteight ; and th e y i 4 • Gentleman had animadverted upon certain circumstances in'imated that any morning they could bring 200 or - "telt had nothing whatever to do with this case. With 300 of them to wait on him (Mr. Duncombe) to prove t r i c . slieet t o th e R oc hd a l e B oar d o f Guardians, he believed that the state of feeling in the establishment.—( A laugh.) This °ere h a d b een an error in that ease, but it was was a bad, a dangerous, and improper state of things. He his intention at present to go into that matter. had received a fetter that morning , in reference to an alledged T he Hon. Gentleman had also said that the proceedings of improvement of feeling that had recently taken place among o r e Poor-law Commissioners in the case of Mr. Parker and the sub-sorters. It was represented that a memorial had been 1 7_ 1 '. Day could not be justified. lie had every reason to be- got up among the sub-sorters to the Lords of the Treasury, L 1,7% th a t the Commissioners had exercised their power in expressing thanks at the improvement made in their remu le° ne cases with great discretion. It was possible that the neration, and declaring that they had no participation in the , s l l l l erintendents of the districts might, in their opinion, be calumnious placards and statements that had been put forth in ' 4 , 1 ,,e 0 ed under the superintendence of a person who, on the reference to the management of affairs in the Post-office. Now t ulles, might be considered as more adequate to discharge the the letter he had received gave the true particulars of this, and s. But he (Sir James Graham) did not wish to institute denied that this step was taken by any member of the sub (llY comparison betw een M r . D ay an d C o l one l Wade. He, sorters, but that it was got up by only a few. A few days u ; . Ins own part, had no part i a li ty w h atever f or C o l one l after it was got up it was sent round for signatures, when aansl, i n f ac t, was unacqua i nte d w i t h hi m , an d was a l so after the strongest representations 25 signed out of 70. This tt aequaintee! with Mr. D a y ; he could, therefore, decide with very much excited Mr. Robert Kelly, and a sub-sorter of i i er fect indifference between them. All that he could say was, the name of Roberts , was charged , in consequence, with oat vvitlerespeet to any part which he had taken in this trans- some mal-practice. It was proved, however, that Roberts was etion, that he had not been guided in any way by showing not guilty of the charge, though at the time Mr. Betonell, One avuur and partiality to one more than another, It was neces- of the officers of the establishment, threatened to kick ten or i t ! i• Y to promote the public service with reference to particular a dozen of them out of it.---(Hear, hear.) Nothing would I striets, that the Commissioners should have that power of give satisfaction but the appsintment of a Committee of in 'C'Pointing w hom they pleased to the superintendence. He vestigat:on- There were many other subjects in relation to this fare James Graham), for one, would consent to the produc- topic that might be referred to, and a good deal might be said i on of all correspondence and papers relative to this trans. in the way of remedy. A great deal might be done in the a non, k Ore was fully prepared to make the most ample and latter respect if they did away with the whole system of fees lireserved ea planation with respect to the circumstances that for early delivery. According to this system, a letter-carrier oacurred 1 ,7 re f e rence to the resigration of Mr. Day as went on t the etablishment at 20. a week ; then he was in !osistant Commiesioner. Under these circumstances, he creased to o 235. ; s ad, in the course s of a few years, he was re 4ould not feel justified in opposing th e motion of the Hon. and enrced to 14s , the salary to be made up by the fees arising from 'earned Gentleman. early delivery. Now, he knew that in some districts The motion was then cut from the Chair, and agreed to the system of early delivery was done away with ; division, ti thout adi • • on. still it remained intact in many others, and those CHRISTIE said that the Right Hon. Baronet had parties who could feet give security for the early de f''!nno explanation o f hi s i n t en sied redu c ti on o f th e num b er livery of letters had to submit to a reduced salary of 145.-- sr Ass istant Poor-law C omm i se i on eee, as s tat e d i n th e l e tt er ( Hear, hear. ) They ought to consolidate the general and itte n by him, district departments of the establishment, so as to make but Sir J. GRAHAM said, that when he wrote that letter he one department ; and as they had the power to use any of lid Contemplate OL" a reduction of the number of Assistant Poor- the trains on the railways for the carrying of letters, they Commissioners. could bring them as often as they might think fit, and they ' AL- PRACTICES IN THE GENERAL POST- could be delivered with what was now called the district de ' OFFICE. Mr. P r. T. DUNCONIB said, that he would ask if it was the n tention of Governm en t — to accede to the motion he was about r; Make. H e wou ld not long occupy the time of the H o use, the Government intended to accede to it, but if it was their n tention to oppose the House,e was about to submit, he tould throw himself upon the Hide out a case for inquiry, give and l,. request it, if he its support. He °aid not conceive any pclunbirlyic, department tnnn tn this country that ,‘ was more necessary for the House to examineisteofauldasitnsqeusisrieoninht nail th e General Yost-office. At the close inquire e came almost too 'ad brought forward this question, but into the t r h e e . St e. He had asked for a Commission to Wanner in which that establishment was managed. lard to the complaints attached to the Genet al Post-office, relieved that there was no public office in this country, agai h 3 e ' , rich greater cause of dissatisfaction could be alleged. - The 'ftplaint a were not only outside the walls of that department, nit they existed en an alarming and discreditable extent vithi n its walls. ellte petition to which he was about to :all the attention of the House, in order to have t referred to a Committee, showed to him 11l sorts of mal-administration. The public complained of this lepartmeat of the public service in consequence of the delay the delivery of letters. He coi:ld pr ove that, but fur certain 9 4 -practices going on in the office. the public would have heir letters half.an-hour sooner in this city. There existed 11so a considerable amount of dissatisfaction in the office at the nanner in which the officers were treated by their superiors, Ind also at the manner in which the carriers and sorters were 'emunerated. If any subordinate officer had any complaint to 'flake to the Postmaster-General, he had no chance of reaching he ears of that gentleman, because it had to go through certain 'hannela, where it would be misrepresented or stopped, so that he men were afraid to make any complaint for fear of sus )ension. The petition to which he would call the attention if the House was from Mr. Duncan. a gentleman of great 'espectability, and proprietor of the Sentinel newspaper. He lad been at the trouble to examine the allegations contained in that petition, and there was not one of them he was not pre pared to support and verify on evidence. Mr. Duncan had given offence to the Post-office by some charge he had made against them, and which appeared in Om Sentinel newspaper. It was alleged that those statements were libellotr, and two Ik Oons had been brought by Mr. Kelly, the superinten dent of L , he letter-carrier department. One of the actions was brought xa June last, and the result was, - that after being held in a beyance for some time, thinking to alarm the proprietor of the newspape r , Costi and hinder him from persevering in attack, the were paid, and the action was withdrawn. They thought he that would g shown this merciful consideration to Mr - . Duncan not again molest them ; but he repeated his original assertion, and a second action was brought, which action was held over as long as it pos s ibly could; the costs were again paid, and it was withdrawn. If that action had been si ill pend- Ills it would he his duty not to make any reference to the pre "at petition ; but as it had been abandoned, he was at liberty to discuss any of the assertions contained. Mr. Duncan com- Inenced by . stating that there were cr d many ibu ' ses in the General Post-office in Sr. Alartin's-le- —that complaints had been held back—and that practice h h , a p a Cl es co t ntinued for many years. improvement, twhat he had said last ne (Mr. Ducombe) was in . but they had only seal ivould have caused some more hands, inefficient for tli o e f ir he ban.drttheresre; pat on a few had been some improvement in the salary but if the Post office authorities 'opposed thatttey were satis fied, fied, and that they were still to be oppressed, mis taken. The petition stated that the principal they in the delivery of letters was a private undertaking e 4'f delay Pffice, by some of the persons officially Undertaking was called " Kelly's Post -office D' The 'rectory " and be no hesitation in saying that it was a g , oss 'oh, Lid employed ir it. The the he Was ready to prove before a Committee that this private un dertaking converted a public establishment into a sort of lucra tive printing-office ; and en long as that undertaking remained, se long would there be discontent in the establishment, and and corruption, oppression. and tyranny, and so long would the pu blic be injured. The petition state d that in the cum ilation pi t hi s Direc`ory the earners and sub - sorters were engaged a a rio tie time in which the y should be performing their public duties, It would not do for the Government simply to deny his assertion, yr to attempt to screen the parties, ter he could prove that they were engage in this work during the hale year roun d, and the ,rvant d i F the Post-office were beginning to prepare the " Directory " for the year 1847. So teach were the carriers and sorters occupied that, when the tressure of public business made it necessary, the authorities t en t to Boswell -court, Chancery-Sane, wher? this work was pre get them back to the Post- office ; and th4s many etters ',: -. APved. A strong instance of this occurred the other day. It w.tas vats:: nown that this large book, for which they paid 303., came out at the :',Grnr;;c:ocement of the year, and there Was a t , Supplemental Directory, " which not in March. He knew that on the day when this supplemental Came out it was delivered io the l e tter-carriers, and the letters were detained a t th e office half an hour ter the deliver) of this Work. Letters and newspapers Lad lain in the cfnce for a *kirk and t on days in consequence of the confusion attendant up that work. The Indian mail had come in that outing It had been delayed by the has of the Liver.. livery, at the same time taking care that due remuneration was paid the deliverers, with a gradually increasing scale for service fir the years employed. The letter-carriers ought also in due course to be allowed to take the sub-sorters' place. The whole thing should be placed on a better footing ; and if a Committee were given him, and practical men—not men interested in the prevalent abuses--examined, he had no doubt a plan by which the system could be remedied might be suggested. The early delivery, in his opinion, ought to be done away with. The Post-office was established for the be. nefit of the general public, and not fcr a small party.—( Hear, hear.) One system should he made to work the same for all. lle knew of a casein which a carrier took up the late and early delivery at the same time, going up the street, delivering the early letters for the privileged parties, and delivering the late letters as he came down. He would go up in the same house in Chancery-lane and de liver thei,ad the early tletters letters of on e t ho first party thirdan d though he floor, because h e h appened to be a late de livery man, the letter carrier would Cary off his letters at a later part of the day when he came down the street. Now, thi s p rocee di ng , in dependent o f its injustice, was against A c t o f P ar li amen t , and ought not to be all ohee s , an d that whichai eil. But th e grea t comp l a i n t ; a b ove required oft ie o t investigation, ove rnm eot w i t a o s , 11 g ta as this was a public departmentto be used fo r the privuantec,imbeht interest of parties. I n th e returns )had move d, sett i ng forth the 3 a -year, , and i n th a t efirn'rowluhfrikehntbean(rsarl buncombe) of officersoft2o: the establishm en t, th e sa lary return of 3 N I 1 ,.. r . . K . o e y said that on his y put down at appointment, e Directory, in which c h h e purchased the copyright of th e Post ()me he had embarked a large private iffiai property, i and in p u bli s hi ng which he had been suppir4t4edwabsy 1,2 resources.nditure and Mrre._ Kelly said that the total difference in the .. 1,2761 4s ; he did not ce ipts of the Directory in ls i sa y whether profit or lo st , b ut he merely mentioned 1,2761. That statement Mr. Duncan was prepared was ton not t r l o e v s e s was untrue, and that the profits of the Directory than 10,000/. a year. if they granted him (Mr. Duncombe) the Committee , he woul d prove that instead of f r l,2 T 76 h / i . , 111r. su l ua r. Kelly received fr om 12,0001. to 15,000 /. a ye was received, by Mr. Kelly, or certain parties connected with him on the establishment. This was no error, but a wilful and deliberate fraud to mislead this House and the public, and if they shielded the delinquency, there was no use whatever in moving for returns on an y sub j ect. He did not see, on con sideration of honor or interests of the public, how they could examined, avoid granting the Comm ittee after svhatii heeh(aNdirsapidu. buncombe) f m N b l e) r. Kelly was called to the b ar and i in was prepared to prove this. What use was ie oer night there ,h in t a i sking for returns if each returns as the se were :..de. . an error in the tariff was attributed to Mr • or, and it Gre was urged that a Committee of Inqu ir y should be° granted, but it was found that the matter was a typograplca e w r e r, r o a r, to abned consideredthe matter waste paper , let if them returnsay so, and he would not take any trouble in askin g for them, but merely' s s if they intended to act fairly and justly in this department of the public service, they ought to grant him what he sought. The great real-practices and abuses which existed ought to be remedied, or at least inquired into. The statement he had submitted showed that tyranny, injustice, and oppression pre vailed, producing a state of great dissatisfaetion, endangering the commercial interests of the country. What state would this great commercial town be placed in if no letters were de livered for one day; and that such a step had been contemplated, and might yet be taken if such tyranny and injustice continued; he was persuaded from information which he had received. This all arose out of what he designated a gross job, for such he een,idered the " Pest-office Directory" to be. The whole place ought to be placed on.a r.ew footing, and if the Com mittee which he sought was appointed, he had no doubt some plan would come out of it which would satisfy the public, and satisfy ell parties concerned therein.—( Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman concluded by moving for a " Select Committee to inquire into the allegations of the petition of Mr. Jonathan Duncan, on the mal-administration of affairs in the General Post-office." Sir. WILLIAMS rose to second the motion. He knew the gentleman whose neme was appended to the petition on which the lime Member for Finsbury had founded his motion, and he believed him to be a person of the highest honour, and quite incapable of making any statement which he did not think he was fully able to substantiate. A charge had been brough forward by his I-lon. Friend, into which this House could not refuse an inquiry. If they did otherwise, they proclaimed to the eptintey that public servants were justified by Government in the commission of a fraud on public property. There was a charge that pubic property had been used for the private interests of this individual, and he (Mr. Williams) said that such a charge as this couid not he made, especially by a gentle- Man who was so entitled to he heard as the petitipner i and \T hen n that petitition, too, was presented by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, who could always command the attention of the House. without the Government's acceding to the motion. He (Mr. Wiliiams) believed that there was no department con n6et,ed with the. GovernmetA that required mere looking after than the, Post- effice. There had been a time, indced, when the Post-office had been looked ue to for the correctness with which things had been managed in that department, but that ti me .had now gone by. The Hon. Member for Finsbury said, that the names for the Post-office Directory were procured by the let ter- carriers. He cculd substantiate this statement. Within the last month the letter-carrier who was in the habit of leaving letters at his door sent in a paper, and asked if that were his proper address ? The letter-carrier might possibly have waited at his door a quarter of an hour—possibly he might not; but, sup posing that he waited a quarter of an hour, and supposing also that he had so waited at fifty doors before he came to his, why, it would make his delivery at least an hour and a half later. Formerly, when he (Mr. Williams) was connected with the City, he used to pay the letter-carrier an extra fee, for the pur pose of getting his letters delivered shortly after nine o'cloek, and he observed that his neighbours who did not pay did not roceive their letters till after eleven. The Hon. Member for Finsbury had pointed out to the House the many errors wkich had found admission into the Directory, but how, he (Mr. Williams) would ask, could it be otherwi , e when this individual had the monopoly of it ? The public had no choice; they were obliged to purchase it, for every competitor had been driven from the field. Ile contended that where charges of this nature sv re brought against any of the cfficers connected with any of the public departments, a Committee to inquire into the truth of these charges ought to be immediately granted ; and more especially when a serious charge of this character—a charge of fraud—of fraud on the public stores—was made ; he could not conceive on what ground her Majesty's Government could re fuse inquiry. Even if the Right Hon. Gentleman the Under- Secretary for the Treasury were to attempt a reply, he would require to depend altogether for information upon the very in dividuals who were interested in the continuance of the system. He would conclude by repeating that the petitioner was inca pable of making such a charge unless be was well aware that it was perfectly true. The Hon. Member concluded by seconding the motion. The question having been put, Mr. CARDWELL rose, and said that before he followed the Hon. Member who had brought forward that petition into the details that might be expected from him, the House would perhaps allow him to make one or two preliminary observations. And first he would assure the Hon. Member, not only on the part of the Treasury, but also on the part of the Noble Lord at the head of the Post-office Department, that no one among the Postmasters-General who preceeded him would be less ready to screen from exposure or from punishment any servant guilty of mal- practices than would the Noble Lord who at present filled that office.—(lronical cheericg from Mr. bun combe.) Tho Hon. Member might derisively cheer him, but the Hon. Member when he did so seemed to forget two of the very statements which he had made in his own speech that evening. He forgot that, while saying that the subordinates in the Post-office were prevented by dread of the consequences from addressing their superiors, and while admitting that he himself, on being questioned as to the propriety of their sub mitting a memorial to their superiors, advised them to be cau tious in doing so, that they told him that they were ready to come in a body of two or three hundred for the purpose of ex pressing their indignation at the practices which it was alleged were embodied in this petition. Now the Hon. Member for Finsbury would excuse him for saying that when persons to the number of two or three hundreds were so ready to come for ward for the purpose of attacking their superiors, there was no reason why they should not instead have addressed themselves by a respectful memorial to the Government, or to the Noble Lord at the head of the department, stating their grievances, and expressing their confident hope that those grievances would be redressed.—(Cheers, ironical cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh.") He was not to be put down by mere cheering from the Members opposite. He would repeat that if the subordinates in the Post-office had produced such a memorial, and if they had addressed it to the head of their department, their grievances would have been attended to. He (Alr. Card well) had the honour of receiving scores of memorials in the department to which he had the honour to belong, and if these memorials were respectfully worded, he would not dare to stand before the Hon. Member and the House, if such memorials had been overlooked or neglected by the particular department with which he was connected. He would say then, and he thought the House would believe him, that the Government were as anxious as the Hon. Member to punish mal-practices of this sort, and he could affirm that the doors of the Treasury were always open through the medium of the Post-office, and if any Hon. Member of that House could prove that a memorial received in that manner, had been neglected, then indeed good ground could be shown of complaint against that department. The Hon. Gentleman towards the close of his speech, referred to a subject which had afforded matter for some little controversy between himself, and the Hon. Member at the close of the last session of Parliament, namely, the early delivery. He perhaps ought not to refer to that matter, because it formed no part of the allegation in the petition. He had the hononr of stating on a former occasion, that the payment of letter-carriers by the office for the early delivery was no part of the engage ment entered into by that depariment. It was held by them as an ancient right, which had been continued, because a large portion of the mercantile community received a credit from the letter-carriers, which the Post-office could not give them, and which must create a little confusion if it were at once with drawn. That was the ground on which the early delivery was defended during the last session of Parliament. It was not defended as a convenience to the Post-office subordinates, but as a convenience to the merchants in London. If the Hon. Member for Finsbur . , could produce an instance of any ger.- tleman living up three pair of stairs, in Chancery lane, whose letters had been detained tit' a later period of the day, while his neighbours upon the first and second floors had been deli vered in the morning (because they were included in the early delivery) if the Hon. Member would produce such a case. Mr. DUNCOMBE—Give me the Committee, and I will do so. Mr. CARDWELL said that the Hon. Member seemed to infer that he asked him to withdraw his motion for a Commit tee. The Hon. Member had quite mistaken him if he enter tained this idea for a moment. All he meant to say was, that if any gentleman had felt himself aggrieved by the system at present pursued by the Post-office, it would give as little trou ble to send a letter to the Treasury, or to the authorities at the Post-office, and he (Mr. Cardwell) would undertake to say that the representations from such a letter would be attended to.—( Hear, hear.) He would not stand there and say that such a case as that instanced by the Hon. Member for Fins bury had never existed ; but he would say with confidence, that the superior officers of the Government were always open to receive any communications, and ever ready to put a period to such mal-practices as those alluded to by the Hon. Member. He (Mr. Cardwell) could not understand how any one could rise in that House to answer matters of which they had had no previous notice, otherwise than as he had done—namely, by stating that the Government would be always found anxious to terminate such abuses. Now, having so far disposed of the early delivery, he would venture to turn to that which formed the gravemen of the Hon. Member's charge—namely, the " Post-office Directory." He would explain what this "Di rectory" was, and thon give a short sketch of its history. Having done so, he would proceed to meet the charges of the Hon. Member. The fact was that the metropolis was divided int ) a great number of wards for letter-carriers, and the House would readily admit, that an absolute necessity existed for the Post-office authorities having correct information of the names of persons whom the letter-carriers would have to serve. He would ask, how was this information to be collected, except ing by each letter-carrier within his own district? ft so hap pened, and he had no doubt it would be made a feature in the debate, that the forms used in the Post-office had a heading, "1 he Post-office Directory." Of course it was not essential to the business of the Post-Office, that there should be such a heading to the forms, but it was absolutely necessary, he con tended, that the names should be so collected by the letter carriers. There were certain officers in the Post-office, desiga nated check-takers, and there were twenty letter-carriers under each cheek-taker. The check-taker had to hand over to his superior the number of names handed in by each letter-carrier—that superior filling the same situation which Mr. Kelly now held. This was information which must be collected as it was now, unless they wished to destroy the existence of the " Post-office Directory" altogether. He would now, with the permission of the House, proceed very shortly to trace the history of the publication which had been so often referred to. A Mr. Sparkes, who held a situation in the Post-office, thought that he was in possession of information to which others could not lay claim, namely, the names of those who were at that time in business in London. This was was some century ago, and Mr. Sparkes applied to the Post master-General of that day for permission to publish a Directory, which was granted. Mr. Crichett succeeded to Mr. Sparkes, and the work was published under the anthority of the Postmaster-General, and so continued until the year 1830, when Mr. Critchett died, and Mr. Kelly succeeded to the office which he now held. Mr. Kelly wished to continue the publication of the Directory, but Lord Litchfield, who was then at the head of the department, thought it right to consult the Solicitor-General upon the matter, as there were some arrangements to be entered into between the widow of Mr. Critchett and his successor. After consulting with the legal officer of the Crown, an arrangement was entered into by which Mr. Kelly paid a sum of money to the widow of Mr. Critchett, and so stood in the position in which that gentleman was placed in regard to the Directory. That an angemeut having been effected, a very great amount of expense was in curred in the publication. The name of Mr. Robson had been mentioned in connexion with the work, and some severe anim adversious had been made against Mr. Kelly in respect of Mr. Robson's death, from the pressure of distress. He (Mr. Card well) was not aware that Mr. Kelly had been thus guilty, but that had been as far back as 1840, since which time a Committee of this House had sat on the subject of the Post-office. In the last session of Parliament an Hon. Member had moved for certain returns relative to that department, and in these returns cer tain sums of money had been entered by Mr. Kelly, as the sums received by him as the produce of the Directory. The correctness of that sum had been questioned, however, by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, who stated that he was prepared to prove that a much larger sum had been received. He (Mr. Cardwell) had instituted inquiries into the subject, and from the information furnished by Mr. Bockenham and others, he was perfectly satisfied that the correct sum had been returned, n t. T a and he did not t hi n k that that sum was in any degree too large considering th e cap i tal embarked, the amount of la b our required, allowing H on n e .Membero t hr circumstance other for F fair remuneration s b to which d h ur t i o the th ae twtnhuedelay c publisher. laaly atNhdevwerthere washn d e n attention of the H ouse, b ut to which he would only shortly in the post deliv er y, was to be mainly ascribedto the employ ment of letter-carriers'in obtaining information for the Dire" ry The Hon. Gentleman had sai d t h e publication of thellll. rectory delayed the delivery of the public letters. Certainly no such delay ought to take place ; and he, for one, believed it did not. The Hon. Gentleman, however mentioned a parti cular case where delay had occurred ; but the Hon. Gentle. man was wrong in his prediction of the cause of the delay. The lion. Gentleman complained that the publication of the last Directory occasioned a delay of ten days in the deli veryby the Great Liverpool, fromsuggested G w e a n s e n r a o l t a n d quite hi si secretarym oss ble werethi of the letters whi l , b e n a t me he p ( a 3 rt ir. of c the way of s this nature to com plaind grievances open to all parties who had cthoueldHbone.soll.lemibheer pwhosettmilearsteirt. have been no lack of remonstrances taken place there would City, who were in the habit from the influential parties in the y! He happened to be of, and he was quite confident if any such delay had of receiving letters by the Indian mail. _o_ delay, and if the [lon. Gentleman The fact was, so, he would tell him what really did occur. acquainted with the circumstances o w f ou th ld is ppearmruictuiliairmcatsoe do the letters of the Great. Liver' col were so wet that it took the servants of the Post-offier, a very considerable time, indeed, in carefully separating aiai sorting them ; and he admitted that some delay, though by no means so much as ten days, did take place before they were ready for delivery. This explanation had been given to all parties interested in the matter, and he was not aware that any one of them had expressed himself dissatisfied with it.— ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman, after expressirg his regret that this subject had not been fully inquired into after the discussion of last session, remarked that some slight change had been mare in the situation of the sub-scrters, whose sala ries were raised on the very morning of the day when it was thought he would being forward his motion. But he (Mr. Cardwell) assured the Hon. Gentleman that the Beard of Treasury, in taking this step, were in no degree influenced by the anticipated motion of the Hun. Member. Another of the Hon. Gentleman's complaints was, that the communications were made to Mr. Kelly by the deliverers in official hours; and the Hon. Gentleman who seconded the motion followed this up, by declarint; that collecting the reileirej infaroption G u e n e a a e d are of etihvei.icifaecetabtlehat let ters. Both Honourable Pseatlk'irien, bettever, wereperhaps , le n i h Y eth i e h r A ti f i r e . D delivery o ir f tory were published or not, it would be irnpcs ible to carry on the business cf at h the P i Without its officers collectin g th e Post —(Hear hear.) Another statement made in the netitionp' w Ist i o e o.nd one which had some colour f of truth was, that the sorters were sometimes employed upon the Directory at the office of Mr. Kelly. This was formerly 111 the case, but it was not so now. But even then it was optional with the sorters to perform or refuse the services, while, if they consented, they were remunerated for what they did.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman hal expressd a ho go. p ,s e i d t h e r a a t t i e o r n e o l f o t n l t a he ut hori t subject ies ; and, perhaps, ctom e uni it under wouldtli e serious be g r gra tifying tifying to the lion. Gentleman to know that the subject had already been carefully looked into by the late and present Post master-General ; and it was now optional with the sorters and deliverers to engage themselves or not in collecting informa tion for the Directory. But both the Noble Lords at the head of the department were decidedly convinced that it was a por tion of the deliverers' and sorters' duty to collect the informa tion for the purposes of the office itself. Believing, then, that the information of the Hon. Gentleman was erroneous, and that while the heads of the Post-office department were open directly to appeals to remedy abuses, no such appeals had been made, he thought it was a sufficient guarantee that neither the Treasury nor the Post-office authorities were deserving of censure ; and he, therefore, hoped the House would negative the motion of the Hon, Gentleman. Mr. MOFFATT supported the motion for an inquiry. It was a matter of fact that individuals residing in London did not receive their letters in the morning till many hours after they night be delivered, if there was a proper system of manage ment of the Post-office. He could not see how his Right Hon. Friend opposite could have any grounds for the refusal of the Committee. He should have conceived that if the abuses complained of by his Hon Friend the Member for Finsbury did not exist, his Right Hon. Friend opposite should be anxious to have the Committee of Inquiry appointed so that the groundlessness of the charges might be made manifest.--( Hear, hear.) He himself felt no doubt that the public would feel much satisfaction if the Committee asked for were granted. It was confidently anticipated when the great change tcok place in the Post-office . department that many of the glaring abuses which then existed would have been re moved, but after all it appeared, from the facts laid before the House by the 1-lon. Member for Finsbury, that the greater portion of them still existed, and that even t h e ev il s w hi c h had been removed would not have been so removed had it not been for the many complaints that had been made to the Post, office authorities, the letters that appeared in the different newspapers, &e. One of the main grounds of the restoration of the revenue represented at the time that the great change that took place in the Post-office was the great increase of facilities which would be afforded to the public in the delivery of their letters. And still, it appeared that almost the whole of the old delays existed as heretofore, and would continue to exist if the public voice was not raised in a manner too strong to be resisted by the Post-office authorities. He found that after some of the old delays and abuses which existed in the Post-office, with re gard to the delivery of letters in the metropolis had been removed, in consequence of the loud and continued com plaints of the public there was an increase of letters delivered by the letter-carriers in London alone, in the following year of 1,800,000 ; being an increase of nearly fifty per cent. ; and there was scarcely a town where there had been increased facilities in the delivery of letters where there had not been a corresponding increase. But still there was a general com plaint throughout the kingdom that the Post-office authorities were exceedingly slow in their operations ; and, in his opinion, they had a perfect right to make such complaints. They had at present in London the old system of twopenny postage which caused a vast outlay and waste of money, and which proved nything but efficient. If the Post-office were properly managed, letters that were to be delivered in the morning, should be delivered before nine o'clock within even four miles of the ity, whereas at present they were not delivered before half past ten. Then there was the absurd regulation as to the limitation of weight to be carried by the Post-office, the weight being at present limited to fifteen ounces, than which nothing could be more ridiculous. There were also many other abuses which might be brought to light before a Committee of the House. There was one regulation about the superannuation of the sub-sorters, who were com pelled to subscribe to a superannuation fund. That he be lieved was also another of Mr. Kelly's regulations. No ac count was delivered to the subscribers of the sum in hand on their account. When their late treasurer died, they expected a very large sum would have been on hand, but when they ap plied to Mr. Kelly they were informed that there was no more than 701. available for the purposes for which it had been sub. scribed. The Post-office was managed in a slovenly way, and he had no doubt that if a Commit tee were appointed the result would be a very material improvement—(Hear, hear)—because he was quite satisfied that some of the allegations made by the lion. Member for Finsbury were true, and capable of proof. He could say more upon this subject, but, not wishing to detain the flute, he would content himself by simply stating in con elusion that he most cordially supprted the motion of the Hon. Member for Finsbury.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. PROTHEROE said that the House and the country should know more than they did at present of the ovrations of Mr. Kelly, who, it appeared, employed by contract the greater portion of those engaged in the metropolitan Post-office. From the statements made by the Hon. Gentleman opposite, it ap peared that the lett er - carr i ers were e mployed twelve hours in the day, and that it was impossible for him to deliver the letters put into his charge earlier than he did. Their re muneration, too, it appeared was exceedingly low, and they , eceived remuneration from parties to whom they delivered in the better walks of the metropolis, with the sanction of the Post-offi ce auth or iti e s; in fact, heir salaries were re duced in consideration of those perquisites. He thought that much good would result from the inquiry which might take place before the Committece, _ Mr. BROTHERTON was glad to have this opportunity of publicly complaining of the gross abuses which existed in the Post-office. He found that they had sent down into Manchester a numb T of agricultural labourers as letter-car riers—men that could scarcely either read or write, and who further knew nothing about the streets of Manchester. The consequence was, that several mistakes had occurred in the delivery of the letters.—(Hear, hear.) This was one of the many abuses which at present existed in the Post-office, and he hoped that the House would give every facility to the carrying out of the motion of the Hon. Member for Einsbury. Mr. CHRISTIE believed that there was an impression very prevalent in the minds of the public, that there existed a most pitiful jobbery in the disposal of the Post-office patronage, and he also believed that no one could gainsay the fact that the abuses in that department were exceedingly great. If the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite really felt that there was no ground for the allegations of the Hon. Member who had made the motion now before the House, what objection could he have to the appointment cf the Committee sought for? The Right Hon. Members on the Treasury benches seemed to be jealous of the Hon. Member for Finsbury ou this occasion. It appeared that the individuals employed in the Post-office had, instead of waiting upon them, presented their memorial to the Hon. Member for Finsbury, praying him to do his ut most to remove the abuses of which they complained. The Hon. Member for Finsbury had made specific charges against certain parties connected with the Post-office, in reply to which the Right Hon. Gentleman said, " I am informed that those charges are not true ;" but let that Right Hon. Gentle man say who was his informant.—(Hear, hear.) During the speech of his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury, he (Mr. Christie) observed the Chancellor of the Exchequer leave his place very often, and go down to parties who sat on the cross benches by the privilege of the House, who, for all he (Mr. Christie) knew, were Mr. Kelly and the other officials of the Post- office.—( Hear, hear.) Now, if the Post-office were carried on in so praiseworthy and immaculate a manner as had been represented, what objections could the Right Hon. Gen tlemen on the Treasury benches have to the appointment of the Committee, which would, if their statements were true, clear their friends of the Post-office from the allegations of the Honourable Member for Finsbury? The public were entitled to have a most searching inquiry insti tuted into the truth or otherwise of the allegations. made that night against the Post-office authorities. It had been stated that such an inquiry had been instituted, but none of that evidence had been published, and how were the public to know the manner in which the parties examined were cross examined, &c. In reply to the allegation of his lion. Friend as to the mal-practices in the delivery of letters in the neigh bourhood of Chancery-lane, the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo site said that as soon as the facts were made known to the Post-office authorities they were removed, but it was under the fostering care of the Post-office authorities themselves that those mal-practices had sprung up ; and he, therefore, conceived that the whole management of the Post-office should be in quired into and remodelled. He considered that all the letter carriers had to do was to deliver letters as they were directed. He considered that private enterpise would be sufficient to col lect the requisite informationn contained in the Directory. He could not conceive how the parties implicated in these alle gations could hold up their heads if they did not come forward and ask this House to inquire into the matter complained of. Mr. F. BARING said the real question for the consideration of the House was not the necessity of instituting an inquiry into the general management of the Post-office, but for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the allegations of the petition. There was no allegation in that petition relating either to early or late delivery, or to the necessity of having two different sets of letter-carriers. Many of the suggestions thrown out by Hon. Members were no doubt very good. He never knew any public office in which im provements might not be made, and he would be glad to see the Post-office authorities introduce any beneficial alterations. He was glad to see the improvements lately introduced in the delivery of the Brighton letters, by which the town of Brighton was brought within the range of twopenny post. From a return lately made to that House, it appeared that many considerable additions had been made in the Post-office establishment, the increased labours having rendered necessary increased assistance. With reference to the alle gations contained in the petition, be had great doubt of the expediency of leaving a work like the Directory" in the hands of private individuals, He believed that it contained much very valuable and necessary information. If the work, however, should be taken out of Mr. Kelly's hands, he considered that gentleman was entitled to a compensation. He thought that the statement of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Cardwell, was worthy of some consideration . ; his state ments were not merely denials; they had locked over the books of Mr. Kelly, in corroboration of his statements. The Honourable Member for Coventry stated that Honourable Member for Finsbury stood very high, but high might be the char ac t er o f the character of the that ground a tt ac k the he (Mr. Ba r i ng ) anydi did n H o t o n c 711 A s d e e m r b t e h r a : , h h e o s w h e o v u e l rd upon character of gentlemen who had been for a number of years good public servants. He saw no reason whatever from the statements of the Hon. Member for Finsbury for inquiry into the alleged charges. He thought that, even in matters of mis conduct of public servants, the inquiry would be conducted i n a far better manner if left in the hands of the heads of the Go vernment, than if attempted to be inquired into by H on. Members of that House. Mr. WA KLEY had been considering in his own mind what would be the probable course of conduct pursued by those parties who had been connected with official duties, upon a question relating to the misconduct of a public officer. He had always found that w h en a ny complai n t was brought against a public officer, members connected with th e Government, sitting upon either side, spoke and voted to_ ;ether. Hon. Members on his side of the Hon se seemed to think that if the present inquiry was granted it might, Tv , haps, go back to the period in which they were in o fC e " He considered it absurd to call the statement mada by the a satisfactory answer; an Secretaries of the Treasury . answer It might be, but a refutation it certainly was not. If that House failed to inquire into such allegations as those con tained in the petition, the functions of the Parliament, Its the inquests of the people, would be immediately at ass fl d . The people of England would no t co ns id e r th a t t heir represen_ tatives had faithfully performed tha duties devol ved upon them they dig thiy , and h if ad th h e e y ar d wereiro from to t h rest osvaetritnsedut.withH He uucash in a re l ay the hab ofit ceiving many thousands of letters in the course of he had scarcely to make one complaint '4o the course of the year. He considered the duti::3 connected with the Post-office to be laborious, difficult, and intricate. He thought it w as a wonderful, most astonishi,ning institution, and no person could reflect upon the exactness and pun ctualit y of the :- without being struck with astonishm ent at t h e wonderfurMa no ner in which the duties were perfo rmed. ti e believed th e " Directory" to bs most invaluable to the public. lie should regret to see it discontinued, and h e only, regretted connected with the publiptin o 0 4 1444t . w0rk: implicatrd si p diss6l • eo.ble '4 4:ll'.uais person inat which had , given rise to the present do h e-- Hear, 01 a most serious character had been brought agai nst the heads of the Post-office. Great numbers of the subordi nates had been to Isis Hon. Colleague , and had made m ost ....,usSion. — ( ear. ) Ch arges grievous complaints to him of tyrannical usage. Could the House, then, refuse to accede to the inquiry ? Hi s H on. cola leage had moved for a return some time since, from which it ' appeared that the income of a gentleman connected with the "Directory" was 1,276 1 ., whereas he (Mr. Duncombe) had stated, that if the Committee was granted, he should be able to prove that the income was not less than 10,000/. a year. The petitioner in the present case came forward, not a 3 a person having received private injuries, but upon purely public grounds, and states in his petition that public property was used for private purposes. If the motion of his Hon. Colleague was not acceded to, the people would think that to serve a certain purpose connected with the Govern ment the motion had been refused. He was surprised that the Government should refuse so reasonable a motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Hon. Member who had just sat down had stated that when any Hon. Member connected with that House made a state ment of misconduct of any public officer it was the duty of Parliament to inquire into the circumstances, and stated as an issitance of the necessity of that inquiry that an officer in the Post-office had stated that his income arising from the sale of the " Directory" was 1,200/. a year; and so because the Hon. Member for Finsbury had stated it to be 12,0007., there fore we should institute an inquiry into the subject. He thought the Hon. Member (.llr. Wakley) was too well acquainted with the bookselling trade not to perceive at once that if there was an exaggeration in the statement the proba. bility was that it would have been upon the side of the larger amount. From his experience in the bookselling trade he thought such would be his conclusion. He further asked whether Hon. Members were to be content with a mere denial. The statement of his Hon. Friend, the Secretary of the Treasury, was founded upon the report of two persons who had been ap pointed to examine the books of Mr. Kelly, the result of that examination being that the statements of Mr. Kelly were es sentially correct. He would ask, what better course could be adopted to inquire into the truth of any statement or transac tion other than had been adopted in the present case? He had said what was perfectly true, they executed the most laborious duties in the most wonderful manner. But when he made that admission that it was not to-day or yesterday, but through a long period of time, when the modes of conveyance were daily changing, that these exertions were satisfactorily carried out,h e is wh ow ol n 1 o implied ne e of Gentleman,hiscaser thatin th department was in a state of distraction and rebelion 7 -ready to strike—in order to prevent the delivery of letters. The Hon. statement, cerd a that contradiction Gentleman must have been convinced that the fact of the i manner in which these complaints were made was an answer to the greater part of them. It was a very popular doctrine that when a complaint was made that the House of Commons were bound to inquire into it ; but they ought not to admit the doctrine in the fullest sense to which it could be strained ; but that when all other means were exhausted, then it should be competent to apply to the House of Commons. The letter-carriers had a door open to them, to have their grievances redresed, and the facts ascer tained. It was not probable that they had been afraid to apply to Lord Lonsdalo or Lord St. Germans.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Duncombe.) He believed the allegation that they were afraid was without foundation; at least there could be no fear on their part in bringing their complaints under the cog nisance of the Treasury. His Hon. Friend had stated that if any malversation had taken place in the department, that the Treasury were always open to listen to complaints. If the House granted a Committee on every complaint which was made to it, they would draw upon themselves an endless labour. The Hon. Member for Portsmouth had so fully de fended the conduct of those who were principally en gaged in the business of this department that it would not be necessary for him to add anything to it. His knowledge was more intimate than his, for he had never seen Mr. Bottenham, but he knew that he carried with him the respect of all that knew him, or had any dealings with him. They had a proof of it is the testimony of the Hon. Gentleman. He had earned the respect of per sons coming into the department without any prepossession vthatevcr. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would not enter intothe general merits of the Post-office ; he said there had been more delay than necessary in cam ing into execution the improvements decided on, but great improvements were going on from day to day, and if there had been latterly some delay, it arose simply from the fact of the large accumulation of letters, which had rendered some large additions to the Post offie, but those enlargements were now completed, and the de iay would consequently cease. He considered that he had said enough upon the motion before the House, and he thonght they would be hardly inclined to embark in an investigation where even there was no allegation that the proper mode of redress had been attempted. If the House adopted the principle of inquiring into whatever an individual might state connected with his department, without in the first place giving an opportunity to the responsible Government of the country to inquire into the subject, he could see no limit to the Committees which the House might appoint, and if there was no other reason for opposing the motion, he confessed that would be suffieient to his mind. Air. B. ESCOTT—Reference had been made to an inquiry which had taken place at the Post-office some years ago. His recollection of what passed then was, that he never heard a more intelligent or honest witness than Mr. Bottenham. There was at that time a very strict inquiry made into the regulations of the Post-office, and so satisfied were the Committee with the management, and the fair dealing of the persons connected with the different departments, that those who were most hos tile at the commencement of the inquiry, were most ready in making a favourable report. Though he honoured the Hon. Member for Finsbury for his advocacy of the injured, it did appear to him that he had not a good cause to contend with, seeing that it was only a squabble between a newspaper editor and a conductor of a Post-office Directory, who thought proper to blame Mr. Kelly. He had no doubt that if an inquiry were granted, it would lead to no good result ; and if it were re sisted, he would vote against it, bearing in mind the result of the former one, of which he had been a member. In fine, he considered that it was unworthy the character of the House in a dispute, which, after all, was only one between a newspaper editor and the proprietor of a Post-office Directory. Mr. T. S. DUN COMBE said he had no doubt that Mr. Bottenham was a most intelligent witness, and it was because that he considered him so that he wished very much to have him, and he should very much like to have the Hon. Member himself. examined, to state what he knew of the regulations of the Post-office ; and with respect to this being a mere squabble between a newspaper editor and the proprietor of a Directory, the Hon. Member could not have heard his statements. He could not have heard the allegation that, only for the private business of Mr. Kelly, letters would be de livered an hoar and a half earlier. It was no light matter that when returns had been ordered by that House, that they should be made false. But all that was nothing; it was all merely a Post-office squabble. If this were pesmitted, it would be perfectly childish in the House to move for such returns, when they were to bo falsified. He did not wonder at the course taken by the Honourable Gentleman. Why, the first was, that it was the duty of public men, both present and past, to screen public delinquency. If they con sidered that he could not prove his charges, they would jump at the opportunity his motion afforded them to obtain praise, but it was because they felt confident that errors did exist, that they refused this inquiry. When eharges were made against the Poor-law Commissioners, why did they not say to them, " Go to the offi cers, before you come to us."—(Hear, hear.) He said before what he would again repeat, that he believed that every allega tion in that petition was true. Would their slighting it satisfy the public? The Right Hon. Gentleman himself admitted that he considered that a better arrangement might be effected, When the packet list was published at the Post-office, it was resolved that it should be published at the lowest possible rate, and that the profit, if any, should be carried to the revenue. This proceeding had been carried into effect. Now let the Post-office Directory" be treated in the same manner, and if it can be published at 12s. 6d., instead of thirty shillings, let the public have the benefit of it, or let it be published at the latter price, and let the amount of profit go to remunerate the poor Post-office subordinates. He did his duty in presenting the petition, and calling the attention of the House to the subject, and he now left it to the House to decide between himself and the Right Hon. Baronet, whether or not the Committee should be granted. The House then divided, when the numbers were, For the motion 49 Against it Majority —43 IRISH RAILWAY BILLS On our re admission to the gallery, we found Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN moving, that with a view to dimi nish the inconvenience and expense now incurred in carrying through Parliament Bills for the construction of railways in Ireland, it is exp e di en t t h at, i n t h e case o f I r i s h Railway Bills, all such inquiries as are now conducted in London by Com mittees of both Houses of Parliament, should, after the termi nation of the present session, take place in Ireland. The ex penditure of the last and the present session, with respect to the conduct of private Bills through that House, was such as to make every one in Ireland dissatisfied with the present mode of procedure. The enormous expense, inconvenience, and delay which resulted from the system of discussing the merits of private Bills before Committees of that House, was so great as to necessitate a change like that which he proposed. The expenses incurred by bringing witnesses from every part of Ire land, engaging counsel, agents, and other persons in this country, would be entirely obviated; but it was not a question of expense merely, it was a question of convenience. He found that in the last session of Parliament the Bills which were introduced on the 10th of February did not receive the Royal Assent till the 21st of July, a period of four or five months, and the general result notwithstanding the delay was a most enormoes expenditure. He should be glad if the Hon. Baronet would lay before the House the different memorials he had received en the subject. He would ask the English Members if they were satisfied with the manner in which the Railway Bills were conducted. It was impossible that so many Bills could be investigat!d properly. They amounted: to over seven hun dred__ in the present session, and the labour imposed upon Members was very great. Members of that House were tak en awa y f rom their higher duties and sent for days and weeks to sit on Rail way Committees, whereas they might be better employed in the discharge of more important functions. He slid not be lieve that Members of that House were bound to sit on Com mittees for private Bills. There was nothing to compel them to do so more than a mere resolution of that House, and he should doubt that such a resolution was strictly binding till he should hear it so stated by some high authority in that House. He could see no difficulty in allowing the 'Railway Bills 0/ Ireland to be conducted by Committees in that country. He thought the Government might appoint a Commission of five gentlemen-,one to be a counsel of high legal character, and the others to be civil and military engineers of acknow, ledged scientific attainments. They could report tg the o vernment, and the parties could then be eiltitled to an appeal to that House. If the House shotikl adopt the principle, he would then be for inelnding all classes of Irish private Bills ill the qualificatiqn of the Commission. Mr. F. FRENCH seconded the motion. He considered that the expenditure incurred in carrying /tills for public works in Ireland should be spent in that country. It was an amount of some consequence I for he found that the expenses of even an unopposed Rill came as high as seven or eight hundred pqmodli, knd such expenditure was taken film Ireland ; na, at the same time, the pasties were put to great inconvenience by having to attend the carrying of the Bills through Committee in this country. The flop. Member then went into a detailed description of the eperation of the Grand Jury Act. Ro said, if it was de termined on that the existence of a road was necessary, the ap plication was laid before the grand Jury, and then the county surveyor was wiledupon to decid e w hi c h was the best line of road, and tg lay it out, and then his plan was to be submitted tq a fulare road sessions, and in that way the fiscal business of the country was carried on. .net With regard to the fiscal business of the country ganeresny, he begged to observe that it was carried on for the great part by Hon. Members from Ire pdt v( 11 0 Vero Obliged to a tt en d t h e i r Parliamentary deitiestore 'also, and in illustration of which he would just state that, since the present session commenced, he bad been obliged to cross the Channel four times 3while here, the duties were dis charged in a different manner. Well, then he would wish to call attention next to the enormous expense to which the Irish 'raise were put in endeavouring to carry Et railway ; and he felt assured he did not exaggerate when he stated that the Par liamentary expenses alone of the smallest line in Ireland could not be less than 10 4 0001. Ig th e f ast place, the parties were But to a great deal of - ad nnt a expense in the House of Lorda that they ..o encounter in the House of Ciaosnaons. In the case of standing orders alone the parties had - to come over here and then go back to Ireland and come here again, and then go back ;gain ; and so on, again and again , in the most unnecessary and annoying manner—an d tlaus the et: pense was most unnecessarily increased. liea in stance recently where the parties had passe d the he of H n o o us e eof Commons' standing orders, and when they went up to tbo House of Lords they had to remain three weeks before they were heard. He contended, then, that all the difficulties had been thrown in the way by the House of Lords,and that there we; Ir T_RE S - UN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 22, 1844. no more real necessity for bringing the parties over here upon a railroad than there was upon a grand-jury road, for that the same parties were as capable of judging of one as of the other. He begged leave to second the motion. - Sir R. PEEL said it was quite clear that the House was prepared for the discussion of the question introduced by the Hon. Member, and there were several motions already before the House upon the subject. But in reference to the railroad question, he begged to remind the Hon. Member that the mo tion he intended to make on Thursday would be to the effect that unless a certain number of scripholders agreed to the car rying on of a railway scheme, it ought not to be carried on. —( Hear.) But the Honourable Member had remarked that certain persons in Ireland were as capable of udging then of the merits of a railroad as of the common roads ; but let him remind the Hon. Member that was not the motion of the Hon. Member near him. That Hon. Member proposed that the Speaker should appoint a Commission to make inquiries in reference to railways in Ireland, which now belonged to the House of Commons to do. In a future session of Parliament, of course, there would be a much less pressure on account of railways than in the present session. The experience of the present session would enable them to determine what course they should pursue hereafter. It was quite clear that they ought not to sacrifice private property unless for some public good. He thought the House could not affirm such a proposition as that which had been made by the Honourable Gen tleman—(Hear, hear)—upon such a discussion as that which had taken place. The Honourable Gentleman would not of course propose to give the power to a Commission of five to legislate. He would not, of course, give a Commission the power to take land. If he did not propose that, Legis lation by that House would still be necessary. Mr. S. O'BRIEN said he proposed that the matter should be determed by a local board—the county board for instance. He would also suggest that the Commission should re port to the House. Si r R. PEEL said, the Commission would merely have to make certain preliminary inquiries. Now, the Honourable Gentleman should consider, that to this proposition, to make it effective, they must have the sanction of the House of Lords. Supposing the Commission to be appointed, there would be no saving of expense, because the parties, if they were not satisfied with the decision of the Commission might appeal to the House and have the whole matter again investigated by the House of Commons. Con sidering that the House was not prepared for this discussion, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman would withdraw the motion, and not put the House to the necessity of expressing an opinion upon it. It was quite clear that it could not be assented to. All the Government could assent to was, the consideration of the question whether certain inquiries now committed to the House of Commons might not be transferred to a tribunal ap• pointed by the House and under the control of the House, but reserving all legislation to the House of Commons. Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought the House was in a position to consider the motion, and he should therefore press it. Mr. C. PO WELL thought his Hon. Friend was warranted in pressing the motion. Mr. WAKLEY said that there were so many drains upon the resources of Ireland, that if the Hon. Gentleman should press the motion he (Mr. Wakley) should support it. He, however, thought it would be better to postpone the motion for the present, and bring it forward at a time when the House would be better prepared to express an opinion upon it. He had the greatest objection to entrusting these matters to the consideration of local boards, because such bodies m us t h ave great local i n t eres t s an d prejudices. He must say that he could not see how the principle advocated by the Hon. Gentleman was to be carried into effect, but certainly, considering the ex penditure that took place in Ireland, and also in this country, a stop ought to be put to the exhaustion of Ireland by ab senteeism. Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON said that after the observa tions made by the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Limerick, and seconded by the Hon. Member for Roscommon, and agree. ing as he did with their views, he thought himself bound to vote for his motion. He thought that some regulation should be made to avoid many of the expenses incidental to the manner in which the Irish railways were bronght forward in London. A great number of witnesses were brought forward, and the proposed arrangement would be of great ad. vantage in diminishing the expense. He must, however, ask the Hon. Gentleman, whether he meant the proposition to apply to those railway schemes now before Parliament, or to such as might be undertaken in future, because he appre hended that very few of the Irish railways which had come before Parliament this session were in a condition to avail themselves of the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman if it were carried. He thought that the House should clearly un • derstand, whether the proposal was intended for the advantage of future railway companies, or for those at present before the House. He did not think that at the present late period of the session any extensive change in the manner of bringing forward these Bills could be of advantage. Colonel CONOLLY said he was not disposed to raise any , objection to a course which had already been found to be benc finial, but the Hon. Member for Limerick had overlooked a very important consideration, viz., that the greater portion of the money invested in Ireland and Irish railways came from England ; and as the introduction of English capital in Ire land was a very desirable consideration, he would be very sorry to acquiesce in any proposal which offered any impediment to such introduction. With respect to the course suggested by the Hon. Member for Roscommon, he thought that such a course would be the one most calculated to encourage discord and trouble in Ireland. Mr. F. FRENCH said that his Hon. Friend had misun derstood the statement he had made. Colonel CONOLLY said that he should be very sorry to misrepresent any of his countrymen—( Laughter)—or any Hon. Member in that House. The House had already found it necessary to separate all parties, all locally interested, from the consideration of the railway scheme in which they might be concerned ; and how could it descend from that high ground, to leave these matters for the consideration of a small district, with the possibility of very material difference of opinion on the subject. Mr. M. O'CONNELL said that he thought that, on refe rence to the list of the shareholders in Irish railways, it would be found that a considerable portion of the capital subscribed was from Ireland, while there were a large number of English names, which were merely samples of that zoological anomaly called the stag. There was such a thing as a precedent of a Commission in Ireland, and all that was asked for was, that instead of taking people over from the remote parts of Ireland, such as Donegal, Galway, and Kerry, they should constitute a serf's of Commissions, which would hear all the evidence, and prepare a report of it for the Parliamentary Committees. It had been calculated that every railway Bill which had come before the House had cost, on an average, 3,070/. for prelimi nary expenses ; and if they multiplied that amount by the number of Irish railway Bills say twenty or thirty Bills—what an amount that would give.—(Hear.) All he asked simply was, to consider whether they would, by commission or otherwise, endeavour to get rid of the incon venience of bringing people over here at the busy time of the year —many of them men of business—and thus expending the money out of the country. In doing this he would be benefit ing all classes, from the day-labourers throughout every business and- trade. It was doing great injustice to Ireland the bringing away the money of the country to swell the overgrown gains of this great capital. He would support the motion of his Hon. Friend, as he considered it a just and proper proposition. Mr. WILLIAMS hoped, after the explanation of the Right Hon. Baronet, that the Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. S. O'Brien) would not press his motion. The Right Hon. Baronet had expressed himself willing in any future press of railway business to consider the propriety of taking evidence, not only in Ireland but in other parts of the empire. That information would suffice at present. He was anxious as any one to sup port measures for the benefit of Ireland, but be objected to do so on the present occasion, because the object would be better carried out if left to the Government, after the declaration which the Right Hon. Baronet had made. If the Right Hon. Baronet omitted to take up the question, the Hon. Gentleman would bring it forward at another time with better chance of success. After a few words from Mr. FREWEN, against the motion, Mr. ROCHE hoped his Hon. Friend would not be induced by the Hon. Member for Coventry from abstaining from di viding the House. It was plain on the whole, it was never the right time to do justice to Ireland. Whenever any pro position was made to benefit Ireland, some doctrine of politi cal economy was dug up, to' show that it was not the right time for adopting it: He could not see how it was that the Right Honourable Baronet had not acceded to the motion, as every one who acceeded to it admitted that some interference was necessary. Much Irish money was spent in this country, and men of business were delayed most inconveniently in consequence of the present system. He called upon the Government to do something in, the matter. He protested against the putting off of the question ; against the demand for a long day for Ireland. He said, that when a question of this kind was brought forward, when all classes in Ireland had united in taemortalising the Right Hon. Baronet, it was not right Str just to say that the mode in which they wished to egrry it out was not the proper one, and he thought the moss lay with the Right Hon. Baronet to prove that it was natural. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under stood to say that he did not wish to prolong the diseussEan, but he could not help thinking that the Hon. Member seemed to suppose that a resolution of that House would be binding upon the House of Lords, Such could not be tb , , case; and be thought it better that the Hon. Member for Limerick should defer his motion. Colonel RAWDON said it appeared to him that the motion was not sufficiently understood, and perhaps be might be per mitted therefore to read the motion as it appeared upon the paper. The motion was, " That, with a view to diminish the ineonvenienee and expense now incurred in carrying through Parliament Bills for the construction of Railways in Ireland, ' is expedient that, in the ease of Irish Railway Bills, all suc h irt London, by Committees el inquiries as are now conducted both Houses of Parlianseut, should, after the terminatio,o the present session', tahe place in Ireland." Now villein the P.lght Hon, the gianeellor of the Exchequer apßeared to think that tits motion railway L e • t* in Ireland would be taken away from both is he was mistaken. He was informed by an Ran. Member beside him that in one . instance not less than thin:Ml:ye witnesses had been kept in town entkreV, at a great expenco and inconvenience, and he thAtlght that Whell evidence might be taken in Dublin the sooner it was done the better. After a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH in explanati on, Mr. DILLON BROWNE said th at i t was a most ire l Por toast matter that in the pres en t di stress some understanding should be come to on the subject. The Olery was then cleared. The House then divided, when there appeared, For the motio n . . 25 Against it MajoriPLAty against it... —44 POLINGPLACES (IRELAND) BILL. The House went into Committee on this Bill. The report was ordered to be brought up this day (Wednesday). COMMONS INCLOSURE BILL. The House went into Committee, and the report was or dered to be brought up this day. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at half-past twelve o'clock. [ADVERTISEMENT.)—DEAF NESS AND DEFECTIVE VISION Itzustvlo, *9, ALIIEBILARLIA-STRiET, PICCADILLY.—NewIy Invented ackustie tubes, for relief of intreine deafness, and when inseriet4 in- the ear cannot be perceived by the nearest observer they are entirely different from all others, and are the smallest hear ing instruments constructed—measuring only a quarter of an inch in their widest part; they may be securely adjusted in the ears unob served, and removed therefrom with as great ease and facility. Per sons are enabled to Join in general conversation, and to hear most distinctly in a place of worship, &c., and what should be greatly oonsidered, a natural expansion of the cavity of the ear is preserved —a thickening or contraction of which is many instances is par tially the cause of deafness—and by their use the unpleasant a^,- sation of singing noises in the ears is entirely obviated. Im proved hearing trumpets of every description. Imit - c olately the newly-invented spectacle le nses are p l ace d b e f or; i mpel -tact vision, eltbek by day or candlelight, that mist gull faillness whioh appear before the eyes is at ones removed, eS >y Olaf becomes clear and distinct, so that tine m most aged festive sight beeoes Fright and brilliant, and is brought to, its TouthAtl, natural, and original state. Also the most rc o verfal iehroniatio telescopes, opera glasses, and micret,emes. taition—Messrs. M. and B, Solomon, opticians, are not Yin ally way connected with a person O 0. same name in their immediate neighbourhood. nut` In any part of the country. To prevent mistakes, be cauti on s, soer.ee—only to be had at 39, Albemarle street, Piccadilly, fakiosite the Tor Hotel. BIUGHToN, APRIL 21.—The Marquis of Douro, Col. Pringle, and John Wood, Esq., Chairman of the Board of Excise, arrived here yesterday afternoon by the General Steam Navigation Comony's packet Magnet, from Dieppe. S N - - 7 THE WELSH PRESS. - .• -- On Tuesday evening a dinner was given atr,potly'sf..46o-'2 house, Paternoster-row, by several gentlemen connected with the principality of Wale.s, to Mr. James Rees, the proprietor and publisher of the Carnarron and Denbigh Herald, to re cord their sense of the talented and judicious manner in' which that journal has been conducted during the period of his management. The chair was taken by John William?, Esq., of Oxford street, supported in the vice-chair by William Jones, Bag., solicitor, of Greenwich. The cloth having been removed, and due honour having been done to the usual loyal toasts, . The CHAIRMAN rose to propose the toast of the evening, " Health to Mr. Rees, and success to the Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald," and observed, that h av i ng narrow l y watched th e principles on which that paper had been con ducted since its establishment, and always feeling a deep interest in the welfare of North Wales, he had with no ordi nary pleasure sought the acquaintance and friendship of Mr. Rees, as of a patriot and a benefactor of his country, Ile considered that the successful establishment of a liberal paper at Carnaryon was one of the greatest benefits that one man could confer upon that district of the principality tending to elevate society, and to give the public mind an onward direction. Mr. Rees had conducted his paper with great spirit and honesty, and. was a man determined to serve the cause of the people b advocating those measures which tend to emancipate then from the influences of ignorance and oppression. When the subject of the endowed schools of Wales was first tnoOted the Herald rendered its assistance to e x p ose many inslances of the shameful abuse of their funds. Much more might be done were the efforts of the Herald seconded ty the landed proprietary of Wales ; but he regretted to saisi that the Wash gentry, as a boy, were lamentably indifferent to the improvement of the lower classes. Indeed if the Welsh population were lower in the scale of civilisation than their fellow-subjects in other parts of the empire, most of the fault lay at the door of the Welsh gentry. Mr. Williams then adverted at considerable length to the Herald's akk advocacy of the Reform Bill in its original integritmr the extension of the suffrage, the right of the industrious poor to relief, its opposition to an irresponsible rural police force, and the support of those great measures now under discussion by tho Legislature, when free-trade principles much less fashionable. He also adverted to the publica by Mr. Rees of the Anuzethvdd, a monthly supplemen ig.tin a velul with the Herald, conta i n i ng information in the Welsh witghgitgion agricultu ra l su bj ects. The toast was received saspalidda,"lseh.aly. know h ow t o express to you till* ple Ar. arsnrable and grateful feelings which you have excited am s'ncerely grateful for the kind way ` in which you have introduced introduced me to the friends around, and nuid I the flattering eL!iiceelence man ner in which I have been received ; heart felt pleasure to learn that my humble but to make the Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald usefuleaenxdetteine"4 ficial to the principality are appreciated. It is true, that it has ever been my pride and study to make the Herald inde pendent ; but I must not take the whole credit of its conduct to myself ; I am associated with a gentleman to whom I have entrusted the political and literary department of the paper, and who has, I am bound to say, after some years' ex perience, discharged the trust reposed in him honestly and honourably. When the Herald was first announced, in the year 1830, the proprietors then promised that it should con tain early and full reports of all public meetings and occur rences which might happen in the district. Since I have be-. come the proprietor I have spared neither trouble noir expense to fulfil that promise. The paper Was also promised to unmask every abuse; to the best of my ability I have fearlessly performed the task, however irksome at times the task might be. Indeed there is nothing that my means will permit, and the support I receive will we-rant, that I will not do, not only to maintain the proud. position I occupy as a journalist in North Wales, but to make the paper equal to any journal in the kingdom. It would hardly :become me to enumerate the benefits which I may conceive have accrued to the principality by the establish ment of the Herald; but there are, I flatter myself, some amongst the company who may recal to mind manyinstanees in which abuses have been exposed, and the rights of the subject vindicated. I shall now merely say, that yourappro hation of the course I have hitherto 'pursued will be a sti mulus to me to continue in the straightforward path I have marked out; and that at no very distant day the Herald n ill be, in size as well as in talent and independence, equal to any contemporary print. I again thank you most sin cerely for the kind and generous manner in which you have testified your approval of my public con. uct. On the health of those patriotic gentlemen, Dr. Lewis and Mr. Hugh Owen, being proposed, they animadverted at considerable length on the merits of the different systems of education in Wales, but we regret that space will not permit us to publish their interesting remarks. Several other gentlemen, including Messrs. W. Tlyjmas, 0. W. Thomas, J. J ames, and 0. Rowland, - addressed the company on subjects of interests, chiefly that of f.k e eduea lion of the lower classes of their countrymen. We may remark, that it was unanimously resolved to revive the Gwyneddigion Society. After various toasts, including the hl.alth tif the Editor of the Cal narvon Herald, the ChairmA sad Vice-Chairman, Mr. Davis of Wigmore-street, &o &c the company separated. A Supplement to the London Gazette was published last Evening, containing the following extract of a Dis patch received by the Secret Committee of the East In dia Company : INDIA BOARD, APRIL 20, 1846. The Secret Committee of the East India Company has this day received, from the Governor-General of India, a dispatch, of which the following is an extract : " The Governor-General of India to the Secret Committee. " Camp, Lahore, March 4, 1846. " On the 20th, the whole army marched to Lahore, four teen miles, and encamped on the Parade-ground, about two and a halt' miles from the city gates. " In the afternoon of the 20th, the young Maharaja Da- Jeep Sing was restored to the Palace of the Rulers of Lahore, in charge of the Chief Secretary of the Government, F. Cur rie, Esq., escorted by British officers and troops, in the man lier described in the papers enclosed I considered it right to mark, in this public manner, the submission of the Lahore Governnient to the British Power; and to show that the restoration of the young Maharaja to his capital was the spontaneous act of the British Govern ment. " On the 21st, the Chief Engineer and other officers in spected the citadel and gates of the town to select positions for the British troops, by which I had determined that La hore should be occupied till further orders. " Early on the morning of the 22d, a brigade of BritiPl troops took formal possession of the citadel of Lahore, the Badshashee Musjeed, and the Iluzzooree Ragh. " On receiving the report of his Excellency the teinman der-in-Chief, I issued the General Order, beming date the 221 ultimo. I considered the occapation of Lahore, and the close of active operations in the field % a proper opportunity for marking, by substantial reward, the gratitude of the British Government to its faithful and brave Army, which had fiught so gloriously and so successfully; and I was glad at being able thus to bring into prominent contrast the just reward of discipline and obedience with the certain penally of insubordination and violence, as exemplified in the fate of the two armies which bad been so long the objects of mutual observation, the one victorio us i n t h e fi e ld , and honoured and bounti?ully rewarded by its Government; the other, is spite of its exceeding numbers and advantageous position?, vanquished in every battle, abandoned by a Government it had coerced, and, with its shattered remains, left, but fo:- the intercession of its conquerors, to disperse with no provision of any kind, and seek a precarious subsistence by rapine and crime. " On the 17th ultimo, the force under Brigadier Wb%eler crossed the Suttlej, a few miles below Loodianah, occu pied the strong fort of Philor, which was abandelted on the approach of the troops. Having left a garrison at Philor, Brigadier Wheeler advanced to the bank% ,of the Beas ; and the presence of his disciplined force Iles given confidence of protection to the inhabitants of t;e Dooab, who are state', to be well satisfied with their '.l:iunge of rulers. The Supplement to tho Gazette, contains man 7, other official documents relating to the recent eve- a t e in the Punjaub, the whole of Which have alrear ) .y appeared in The Sun. COURT CIRCULAR, The Queen 5 ...t2'3. Prince Albert walked early yesterday, is the royal gP.rdens of Buckingham Palace. Hir Royal Highness P r i nce Alb er t ro d e ou t on ho yesterday, attended by Lie u t enan t-C o lonel Seymour, E rse qu b e a rr c y k in WP.lting tlie Princess Royal, and the Princess Their Roy . al Highnesses the Prince oAfilieVealteoso,kPrtihneceirAulii'suead, exerciserier 3ai i ye e s s t t e y r yesterday, in gardenir,nritnhcee Albert, f,ittht attended e d Palace. b; Lady Pert man, Hon. Miss Murray, Hon. Miss Napier, Lord Byron, lion. Colonel Grey, and Lieutenant-Ccilonel Seymour, honoured the Italian Opera with their presence yesterdaz evening. Lady Portman has succeeded the Marchioness of Douro, as the Lady in Waiting to the Queen. Lord PyrOn has suc ceeded Viscount Sydney, as the Lord in Waiting to her Majesty ; and Admiral Sir Robert Otway has succeeded Colonel Berkeley Drummnd, as the Groom in Waiting ttl her Mijesty, Her 4`ajesty the Queen Dowager took an airing yesterday in carriage, attended by the Hon. Miss Hudson ar.i the 1 1 011. Miss Mitchell. Her Majesty visited her Real High ness the Duchess of Rent, at Clarence House, St. Their Royal High nesses the Duchess of Gloucester and the Duchess of Cambridge visited her Majesty the Queen Dowager yesterday at Marlborough -house. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Rent arrived at her residence, Clarence-house, St. James's, at two o'clock yester day afternoon, from Frogmore-house, Windsor. Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cam bridge visited the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday at Glott. tester-house. His;Serene Highness the Hereditary Prince of Saxe Mp; m i n , gen, attended by Sir Andrew Barnard, Captain Ta3:7tor, P.:hd Mr. Fending, le ft Marlborough H ouse yesterday rrjrutnre a carriage and four for the Regent Dock-Y ar ' l , Woolwich. His Serene Highness returned to town in the A ft ornoon. The Danish Minister transacted busines,4 )re'Aerday at the Foreign-office. The Commissioners of the Metro-Alit= Termini had meeting on Monday. There were Pm-sent Viscount Can ning, the Right Hon. J. C. Herrin, Sir Frederick Smith, and the Lord Mayor. The Comr.iissioners held another meeting yesterday. Mr. Mayers, agent. for Barbadoes, had an interview with Mr. Secretary Gladstone yesterday at the Colonial-office. Mr. Etbnund Nugent, agent for Antigua, had also an inter view with the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Excise, had ay. Inter view with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday at his residence in Dowing-street. queens. In our 11103 his noscoE, E5q...., This. is the aft volume of undergone since LIVES OF THE QUEENS OF ENGLAND, VOL. I. By of works which will prove sk great addition to English history. indeed, the boldoutline condescend to No better supplement t(1 our annals could be snatsetpi pitliemdentthlionn stration. But greatw el well- iiie i s t tc t oere_i n ieis,g bi u o e f sn r t F d 'o c : h e an s n o og f te o sfi u m r nhea k i e i h n t h g a s sto a e ll pie d rtoymi MI since And ,deserves;otiwelli of a the details of pti people or society is a thing of p: v r a h r,: e . c a h l i i t.a, e for rsi subject could lightbj ec t far too much the progress of the moment to be passed over in silence, and we think no bette r means o f sup plying this historical deficiency could be devised than by the lives of the monarchs of Englan age, by this England. Each . tit means, might find its titling • tog illustration in the person of its svvereign. Miss Strickland, in her' Lives of the Queens of England,' has I , Shown how well this idea can be carried out. Mr. Roscoe, in his' Lives of the Kings,' will doubtless throw as much light upon the political character of our early annals, 43 at a former period the personal character of the sovereign had everything to do with the aspect of his times. From various sources Mr. Roscoe has drawn facts which have never yet appeared in relation to the life of William the Conqueror. If the succeeding volumes should prove as interesting, as this one of the great Norman, we can imagine. nnnv•r• allnnaanfil 1 Ilarie e ni . kned.. ~ lors. .. - ....... _ _ \ 1