The Sun. — London, England, 1846-07-21 00:00:00

mes..eseoismele their Lora' , s wars von to the arch. , esirous that hers of bps ?hester was he thought ?en intro ten Y elr ! Lordships , pr errr )ishoprie interest he interests of Thole of the f they we re not wond er see of 130' eived under inder JO" 3 8 , a nd In 80 1 . yet, rite the two 'r the esta• this Bill A t ° ations. sees scen t es, the re' ligiour 9 ' in replY' ition 0 1111.3 ceses, wit b ue o f the u rnstanel differer ch. deratior of and he Ws? ' g estion , ,t t I e CLor c° ' the Noble !red, l' °°l ' ber of tit ° to bare $ es in gal' o ble Ear s but t ° id nO4 THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY_,EVENTIVq, 21, 1846. we ought to say to the United States, "we will not admit your produce until you solve the problem which cow oc - cusies the attention of the Anti-Slavery Society, of how einsecipation shall be brought about in the United States." In fact, far the same reason that they ex cluded sugar they ought to shut out American cotton. The same thing may be said with regard to many other articles. With regard to copper ore, slave labour is freely used in the production of that article, and yet we do not exclude it from our markets.—(Hear.) Such is your position if you proceed on this exceptionary rule in regard to the produce of foreign countries. But you have not been able to keep this ground in your dealings with these countries. You have not been able to supply yourselves only from your colonies in which slavery does not exist, or from countries where free labour alone exists.—(Hear, hear.) And in increasing your sup plies, you have been under the necessity of admitting sugar irons the countries where slavery, or something approaching it, does exist, in order to meet the wants of the markets of this country.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In your dealings with these countries you have not be en able to carry out the principle on which your present law is founded. You have not been able to inquire what is the peculiar state of society in Java, or whether it is not a state of slavery, something at least approaching to it. What the particular state of society is in Manilla, you have equally failed in in quiring into. In obtaining a larger supply of sugar from the se countries, you have not ventured to act on those principles of law upon which you have proposed to act, but you admitted their produce on the faith of the treaties you had with them ; you have admitted their produce as: the produce of the most favourned nations, and in competition with the produce of free labour.—(Hear, hear.) I say you have admitted the sugar of these countries, and though the qaantity intro duced may not have been great, still you have backed out of the strict principle which you have laid down. There can be no doubt of this. But in doing this you have refused to Spain the advantages which you have given to other countries. Spain claimed, under the treaty with her, the right of sending produce to this country on the footing of the most favoured nations. You have, in agreement with your principle, been obliged to refuse, though the act, I am bound to say, does not redound much to the honour of a great country like this.—(Hear, hear.) It was shown by the Spanish Ministers two years ago, that within the last ten years Spain has claimed the benefit of the treaty of being admitted on the. footing of the most favoured nations, but it has been repeatedly refused.—(llcar, hear.) On this subject I cannot but be of opinion that although the treaty with that country might not strictly warrant its produce being admitted on the most favourable terms, yet that the principle of the most favoured nation ought to have been applied to it. The same principle ought to have been applied to the fish eries of the twocountriea,at Newfoundland and elsewhere. If the salt-fish of England, then the salt-fish of Spain must be refused also; and the same rule must be applied to the salt-fish of France. The Spanish Minister said that he acknowledged the principle, but he said also that these treaties required to be revised by the different countries. That is the sum and substance of the conversation between the Ministers of England and Spain, proving sufficiently that the opinions of English and Spanish Ministers were against that state of things. Now, when persons stand up for a permanency in these duties, they must endeavour to find excuses for their opinions. But there are further and more vital objections against the admission of slave sugars. They do, to a certain degree, diminish the price of free-trade sugar even in Great Britain ; but the resources of commerce are injured, yet the spirit of commerce is too ener getic to be bound by the stipulations on this question. But what do the merchants do ? They endeavour to find muskets in other countries ; they search Europe ; they coast the Mediterranean; they reach Petersburgh and other places, and in this way they find markets for their slave-grown produce. Now, Sir, this affects our markets ; it may be in a -very inconvenient way, and attended with a good deal of loss to English commerce ; but still it does away with the objection so often urged, namely, that no em ployment is given by England to the cultivation of Cuba and Brazilian sugar. I see it sometimes said— popularly said that this slave-grown sugar is the produce of tyranny the produce of crime—that it is so much stolen material, so much stolen goods, which it is asked us to consume. This is very well, but what would be thought of a person who would come with a quantity of stolen sugar—stolen from an adjoining warehouse — who would come to a shopkeeper and offer it for sale. The shopkeeper would say, " Why, these are stolen goods ; I cannot buy them, but I have a neighbour who has no scruples. I will direct you to him, and he will buy ; I can pur chase from him again with the. full drawback ;" and by this proceeding the whole morality of the. Weir is lost.—(Hear, hear.) I therefore, Sir, for these several reasons, on which I will not further dwell, hold that the ground which has been hitherto taken by the Governments of this country has not been the correct one—(Hear, hear) — and that we must in this instance, as in the propositions of the late government, adopt the principle of re moving all restriction, and of admitting the people of this country to the best and cheap est markets ; and, acting on this principle, we must admit the sugar of foreign countries into the United Kingdom. But, Sir, while I say that you have no sufficient grounds any longer to refuse to the people This country that benefit--( Hear, hear. )--while you ought not to deny to them the power of obtaining their sugar at one million and a half, or two millions of money less than the price that it now pays, there are other considerations which indeed it would be improper and imprudent to overlook, and which demonstrate that such a change cannot take place immediately. It was very fairly urged by the West India proprietors that the change from slavery • to freedom was an immense revolu tion, in affecting their interests and the market for labour ; the revolution changed the produce of the growers from 4,000,000 to :2,600,000 in the course of a very few years ; and that even your twenty millions of compensation, large and liberal as it was, has not been a full compensation for the loss which they have suffered.—( Hear.) They say, moreover, that having had to reconcile themselves to this great change, and to employ persuasion where they had formerly used compulsion—persuasion to entice them away from indolence, which was natural to a people just made free—and that this country did not allow them a full admission to the other markets of the world where they could have obtained free trade. Now I think • they are somewhat justified in these complaints. The jealousy of Parliament upon this question was the origin and cause of the orders in Council which prohibited the or°. curing any labourers from Africa. Such was the course which led to the rejection of the complaints made in the House of Lords of those orders in Council which prohibited the importation of Hill Coolies from the East Indies into the West Indian colo nies. But it was not, however, the less a real grievance to the proprietors of estates in the West Indies; nor should it be urged as a claim against the equalisation of these duties with the sugars of other countries. There were reasons also connected with the revenue which should not induce Parliament to sanction an immediate equalisation of the du ties. Any sudden change of duty would, no doubt, most seriously affect the revenue ; but' it would also throw out of cultivation some of our colonies, and consequently keep the markets of this country badly supplied for a considerable time ; and, therefore, in the measure which I intend to propose to this House, I shall propose a considerable reduction of duty i t i t t ,at the th tutia w , until t hey are equalised. for the present year, and a gradual reduction from year to year eqViset It disposed thought red7e the duties upon- foreign augurs to 23, r but, considering that proposition, it appears- to "' n;t: that by a slight increase of the prices of foreign sugar in this country we' shall entirely lose the benefit of such reduc tion both to the consumer and to the grower. The average price of foreign sugar according to a printed paper laid on the table of the House, on the motion of my Honourable Friend the Member for Lambeth, was for brown or yellow sugar 20s. sd. The average price of West India, Mauritius, and East India sugar was 22.5. Bd.; these prices are for the year 1845. 'sow, Sir, suppo , ing the duty is 3f. 4d., and the price of Manilla sugar shou ld rise to 9.55., you would then have the price of sugar to the consumer 4Ss. 4d., and we should then be exposed to the same results which followed the policy of the Right Hon. Baronet with reference tot his question. I, therefore, propose that in the present year, inste.d of the duties of 635., a prohibitory duty, and a duty of 235. 4d., that on all foreign Muscovado sugar there be a duty of 21s. per e wt. I shall propose, too, that that duty should diminish n the following manner : From the sth of July, 1846, to sth of July, 1847 2ls. 1847, to sth of July, 1848 2os. ••• ••• 1848, to sth of July, 1849 18s. 6d. 1849, to sth of July, 1850 l7s. 1850, to sth of July, 1851 lss. 6d. ••• 1851, to sth of July, 1852, that a duty of l4s. should apply to all Muscovado sugar five years from the sth of July, 1847. Now, Sir, I say nothing here of the propriety or advantage that might be derived from a still further reduction of 14s. per cwt. I do not think that, considering this in operation— that it is to be continued over five years—considering also the present state of the revenue, of which I shall have something to say before I conclude, and considering the present state of the Government, I do not think it would be right for us, on any specula tion, to ask for any considerable reduction beyond this, an .l especially when it is borne in mind the reductions which had been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman last year. Now, I should say that with respect to the distinction that was made last year as to clayed sugar, it is quite true that I have shown by analogy, that that was not overrated with respect to the sugars to which it was proposed to be ap plied. I find with regard, to Harannah sugar , th a t the re is white , or w h ite elated sugar, of which the price is more than 4s. I have only to state at present that in the Bill which I shall have the honour to lay on the table of the House I propose to keep up the distinction of last year. I do this on the grounds I have stated. I have not been able to ascertain all the information I could have wished on the subject, and therefore, with regard to that part of the plan which may be affected by subsequent information, I will not too minutely enter. Sir R. PEEL—On all clayed sugars? Lord J. RUSSELL—On all cloyed sugars. There is a similar reduction, from year to year, on the refined sugar and on the double refined sugar, and I need hardly, I think, enter into the details, but at once lay the list on tne table of the House. The reduction is in similar proportions to those made on the other pagan. Sir, with respect to ler also that the revenue is a considerable sufferer by the mode In which those duties are raised. We con sider itmost necessary, for the sake of the public, f,‘r the sake of the interests most concerned, for the sake of trade and commerce in this country, to ~ndeavour this qu es ti on at a p ermanent sett l emen t, an d not to expose s qu es ti on to di scuss i on an d d ou b t f rom y ea r to year. -si w ie a may hear.) With these motives, however unpre paredseem to be, I am now, Sir, about to s tate to the Committee the general reasons on w hich we have conceived the plan which I am now about to propose to this House for t he permanent settlement of the question. Sir, i t has been generally acknowledged by all, by the most intelligent writers for many years, that the sugar duties have been enormously increased. Mr. M'Culloch, in his "Dictionary of Commerce," as well as in his recent work on taxation, states, that the in crease in the prices of sugar, supposing foreign to rise from 21s. to 255., is in the last three years not less than 3,240,000/. a year. During these and the following years, by the advance in the price of sugar, it was rendered unattainable to a large class of consumers, and, consequently, extremely limited in the demand. Passing now from what has happened in former years, I will take notice of the Plan proposed by the Right Honourable Gentleman the late First Lord of the Treasury, the effects of that P l an, and the views with which it was introduced.- (Rear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer at that U na", in speaking of Java sugar, said that, observing the he price at some months to be 225., and at other times at 245., would take the average to be 20s. per cwt., which w ould give a total consumption of 43,000 or 44,000 cwt. But in the course of the year a very considerable rise t aking place, and the Gazette prices averaging in the ' e ar first weeks of April at 30s. a cwt., and in the four last weeks of December at 35 5. a cwt ., tne hopes of the Right Hon. Gentleman were to a great de gree disappointed. I will next take the financial t sta tement of the First Lord of the Treasu r y , who said a° considered it probable that the redtiction of t he duty would equally increase the consump tion, which he estimated from 120,000 to 160 ,000 tons, giving a return of 2,240,000/. , T , he Right lion. Gentleman proceeded upon the reduc tion of sugars, and reduced the duties to the amount of l is. per cwt. on the colonial sugar which was more than sufficient, but by limiting the field of supply, and raising the duty with reference to other sugars tobe admitted to "PPly the market, his estimate was widely different from the truth . With reference to the other kinds of sugars there is the actual facts of the e ase with reference to sugars from the Ist of January, 1845 , to January Ist, 1846. The Right Hon. Gentle man calculated upon 160,000 tons of colonial sugar; the actual consumption was 237,632 tons sugar, clayed or equal t o white clayed. The Right Honourable Gentleman calculated upon 7,000 tons-the consump tion had been 1,107 foreign free-labour sugar ; the amount estimated was 5,600 tons; the actual consumption Was 3,809 tons foreign free labour clayed, or equal to white clayed 180,000 tons, the actual consumption only 54,000 tons. British Plantation Muscovado sugar was estimated at 2,240,000, the actual consumption was 3 ,326.904, instead of 1,140,000 clayed sugar ; the receipts were 18,0001. ; the difference between fo reign free labour and Muscovado sugar was 116,700 and 88,000 tons. The total decrease, according to the estimates, in the revenue received was 481 , 000 /. That was not the actual decrease, as a large proportion of this sugar entered before the Right Hon. Baronet Proposed his plan, for the actual difference is only 341,529/. Now, Sir, I think these accounts are sufficient t° show that, while the Right Honourable Baronet acted upon the principle of reducing the duty for the pur pose of effecting an increase in the consumption he was per fectly right. But it was an absolute failure when he pro • pos ed to introduce different classes of sugar at differential a " high duties, and it was only there th at be failed to make up his revenue according to his es timate.- w ill now proceed to state what are the general btllects, as obtained from various sources as to the pro -44.4..e supply of sugar for the coming year, taking the h a °lent from the sth of April, 1846, to the sth of A p ril of In the estimate which I now hold in my hand, which it• - 4 a lder extreme, and by no means li kel y to be realized, lie l i t at ated that the quantity of co lonial su g ar in ware- N al a to 40,000 tons ; that statement sets forth the ac • ok quantity, and is considerably less than the usual sth a aat. Th e es timated imports, calculated fro m the 8 4) ,,,. 3f April, 1846, to the sth of April, 1847, li a 4 - tion, to the West Indies 125,000 tons ; from the 8 0 : Lti lls, 50,000 tons ; and from the East Indies, ') tons ; amounting in the whole to 255,000 tons, :cording to this estimate ; and the most sugar which 2 , 1131 be expected from other foreign countries would be " 1. ' 990 tons more, making in the whole 275,000 tons, to W of ui ch 40,000 tons have to be added, giving a total 31 5,000 tons ; from this 45,000 the usual amount must b e deducted, leaving 270,000 tons. Nov, Sir. I have here various other returns with respect to the 81 PPly of sugar for the period I have mentioned . , which Appear to me to be no nearer the case than this. One la a statement put forth by those interested in the trad e of the West Indies, which gives to the West Indies 125,000 tons, the Mauritius 50,000 tons, and the East Indies 75,000 tons, making altogether 230,000 tons. There is another statement with respect to refined sugars, which apportions to the West Indies 115,00 E tons, to the Mauritius 40,000 tons, and to the East Indies 70,000 tOns, making altogether 225,000 tons. I have another account, which gives to the West Indies 110,000 ,„ t ° ll e, to the Mauritius 45,000 tons, and to the East Indies, 35,000 tons, making altogether 180,000 tons. have another from persons engaged in the trade, which , awakes the whole supply 230,000 tons. Now, Sir, about 40 ,000 tons may be taken as a fair estimate of the supply Of sugar for the forthcoming year. I have bad a statement P r epared of the effect of the Right Honourab le Ge ntleman's plans, from January, 1845, to January I t the p resent year ; b u t th e s tatement from April to gives 250,000 tons. I think we cannot say, According to that statement, supposing the duties we re to be nominally what they were last y ear, th at there was less than 20,000 tons of increased con lar, lltt uption. There was a statement made b y the Ri g ht Gentleman at the commencement of this year, " e ll he stated his general plan with regard to the trade and finances of the country , in which he p ro p osed th at the re s h ou ld b e a reduction on free labour sugar t „ 19 s. 10d. from 23 5., but that the duty all foreign sugar should remain the same. No w Sir, I have an extract from a circular, published at 44 Verp Q Ol , and which is dated Feb. 2, 1846. It says, The effect of the alteration in the sugar duties will be a re duction of 3s. 6d. per cwt. for foreign free-labour sugar.'i i t believ e t h at statement i s ma d e by a person of experience t tl trade, and w hi c h I s thoroughly borne out by the fact oat YOU will be disappointed in obtaining an increase the revenue proportionate to the increase in r• e consumption of sugar ou which a heavy tax ,‘ paid. Now, let it be borne in mind, that supposing the consumption is 250,000 tons, there will be a tax upon the people of this country, under Present circumstances, of 1,500,0001.-(Hear, hear)- and that is a tax which does not flow into the Ex chequer.-(Hear, hear.) I should, therefore, be na turally disposed to propose the admission of other foreign sugars into the markets of this country to supply the deficiency under which we at present suffer very materially. But, Sir, we are met by an objection Which has hitherto prevailed upon this House, contrary to the system which has prevailed during the last four or five years, but which has not prevailed here during the present year, viz., that the people of this country should not be allowed to buy in the cheapest market. There is also another principal objection raised ae ainst the removal o f the duties on sugar, and that is, t that if all sugar was admitted free into this coun try We should be encouraging the slave trade , ou tw • th at there are other considerations which /ivhi e h all financial and commercial views , viz., those do,l h ar e connected with the comfort and welfare of th e o r eat l arge. S i r, i n exam ining that argument which o n°t Propose to do at any length, I will just point 1 , what I t hi n k to be the weakest part of it. o at a rgument fails, because whil e y ou refuse admis 41n to Jour Lome markets of the sugars from foreign co untries,ether you lace no such barrier on the admissio n o f Product p ions-of cottons, tobacco, copper, and and 4rl tAls othe r thi ngs which are produced by slave labour ; theref ore , Sir, you do nut actually carry into effrct, evener pretend to carry into effect , tho se humane views whi eh Persons who are most opp >sed to the admission 'f. 3Sl alre produce consistently maintain. I hold in my After circular with respect to the sugar duties. ~ pointing out the increase which bad taken plac e iu t he prod uce of cotton from 1790 to 1845, the paper ° °ceds to call down the indignation of all moralists i tinst slav ery . B u t t h e p a p er om its one important ' l t* It states no reason why the United States should 1 1 : 4 e xeepted fr om th e p r i n ciple of exclusion.-(Hear , quer') Now, nobody can have forgotten the do ti : ts tatements that were made in this House a short book by a Right Hon Friend who sits near me, r with _ • spect to slavery and the slave trade.-(Hear, tear ' leen ') I mean the Right Honourable Gentle the ethe Member for Edinburgh. Nobody can deny iorce or the „ of the observations which he made, I:4:_rg:_;tilizstywohriethhe he then stated. We admit a produce of America, and thus, to a trade ; extent, hold out an encouragement to the slave 4t t but to preserve our consistency upon this subject, the various subjects on which the West Indian t for continuing the present duties for one month from the time body have stated that while they think that any equalisetion in of their expiration, and resumed his seat amidst loud cheers. the foreign and col o ni a l sugars is unjust to them, and ineon- The resolutions having been put, sistent with the policy which Parliament has hitherto %suctioned, Mr. GO CLIIU R N said, he agreed with the Noble Lord and set, supposing it to be done, that there are claims which that this subject was one of the greatest importance in a corn they think they are entitled to make, and placing them on per- mercial, political, end moral sive, and he thought he feet equality as respects the production of other parts. The should best advance a fair discussion of the question first is, that subject which I have mentioned to the by forbearing to enter into any debate until a House, the subject of emigration. We find, 1 remember myself, future opportunity. He should, therefore, confine when I was in the Colonial-office, we so far relaxed the orders himself to asking the Noble Lord one question with respect to of Council, which have hitherto passed ; and proposed to take a part of his statement, and upon which he did net correctly the sanction of the Queen in Council, and obtain an order for understand him. The Noble Lord stated that with respect to permitting negroes to emigrate from Sierra Leone and the the colonial trade he would seek for an Act of Parliament to West Indian islands. Now, those orders in Council have been empower the several colonies to repeal such portions of the very much considered by the Government that followed ; discriminating duty at present existing in those colonies various other relaxations have been made with respect to ether with regard to the produce of foreign countries and parts of the world ; I believe very considerable indulgence has the colonies. He did not understand whether it was been adopted by Mr. Gladstone when he was Secretary of the Noble Lord's intention siiil further to give extension to the State for the Colonial Department. With respect to that sub- colonial trade by promoting an intercourse in the produce of ject there is only one material alteration which we propose to those colonies with foreign countries, or whether it would be make. It is that the contracts or agreements which are en- confined to the ships of this country. This was an im tered into in Sierra Leone, or the British settlements, or portant point, and he shi uld therefore wish to know the in- Africa, as to the employment of negroes should hold good in tention of the Noble Lord with respect to it. the West Indies. We think, upon the whole, that with the Lord J. RUSSELL said, what he proposed to do was to present knowledge which the West India proprietors have on empower her Majesty to give her assent to those Acts of the this subject, and with th e knowledge of that, which was stated Colonial Governments with respect to the discriminating by Lord Metcalfe, asinitting, the fact that labourers duties. He did not in any respect propose to alter the naviga in Jamaica, and most other Indian islands have tion laws no w subsisting. He merely proposed to take the much more demands on the employed than the power he had mentioned. employed on the employers, I should say that we might gi ve Lord G. BENTINCK said that he and the friends around permission f o r contracts of service to be made for a single year. him, proposed to give their support to the Noble Lord, to the But with regard to ano ther pro p osa l w hi c h is to b e ma d e , plan which he had so ably and per. picuously laid loan on the namely, that they should be allowed to make those con tracts on whole, but there were two points on which they could not do so. the coasts of Africa, where we have not possessions—where the They would not consent to the removal of the protection which British flag does not wave, we do not thi n k i t sufficient th a t the colonies had hitherto enjoyed. True to the principles such should be made without some additional conditions. upon which they had acted on former occasions, his friends Other questions the West India interest has laid considerable around .him were not disposed to consent •to the admission of stress upon ; for instance, they say rum is not admitted upon slave-grown sugar on the same conditions as the produce of equal terms with the liquors a nd s pi r it s of other free labour. They were determined, if possible to secure states and colonies. We have looked into this, to the East and West Indian colonial proprietors the pro and we think a red uc ti on i n th e d u ty may be tention which they had hitherto enjoyed.—( Hear, hear.) safely made from Is. 6d. to ls.—( Hear, hear.) There is His Noble Friend had said that, in his opinion, the agricultural another subject which they complain of. They complain of interest,having lost th e i r p ro t ec ti on , it oug h t to b e a conso l a ti on t o the differences which exist in the excise duties of Scotland them that they would have an opportunity.ofohtaining their sugar and Ireland; but we think that to make any alteration in this cheap. Now, he could tell his Noble Friend that it would be no respect would be attended with a good deal of difficulty. —( Hear. ) consolation to them, that having lost their own protection they There is another ar ti c l e w hi c h t h ey w i s h e d t o h av e released would have an opportunity of robbing the East and West India from the excise restrictions. They ask us to allow molasses interest of their protection.—( Hear, hear.) A statement had to be used in distilleries free of duty ; but here there are diffi- been made to the House to the effect that there would be agreat culties in our way, and we cannot at present give them this falling off in the supply of sugar from the colonies, but he advantage. Now I think it is but fair, while we are applying thought his Noble Friend had understated the quantity free-trade principles at borne, we ought to extend of sugar that might be expected to be derived fi ona them to the colonies.—(Hear, hear.) We therefore purpose the East and West Indies for the years 1846-47. to relax the duties which are imposed on the introduction of His Noble Friend had stated the amount to he expected timber and provisions into certain of our colonies. —(Hear.) from the Mauritius at no more than 50,000 tons, but from the In speaking of this subject some years ago; I said that I best information he could collect upon the subject he could say thought the whole system of the country had gone on in a that 60,000 tons would be the produce of the year. The Noble vicious circle.—(Hear, hear.) The manufacturers asked for Lord had stated the produce of,the East Indies at no more than protection, and the colonist and the farmer were not enabled 80,000, but he had every reason to believe that the produce of to get supplies of manufactured goods from foreign countries, and the year would be 100,000 tons for Bengal alone, exclusive of were obliged to pay a high price for the home produce. The the sugar that might be expected from Madras, which was farmer asked for protection, and the manufacturer and the estimated at 60,000 tons.— ( Hear, hear.) On these pounds colonist were not able to get supplies of provisions elsewhere. he begged to intimate that he and his party were decidedly The colonist also asked for protection, and, in consequence of opposed to the proposed change, and when his Noble Friend this the farmer and the manufacturer _ were not moved his resolution it was his intention to propose an amend. able to receive supplies from them. The whole system was a bad one, and I then stated that we ought to endeavour to break the circle.—( Hear, hear.) That has been in a great measure done since 1 then spoke; and I do not think, unless the ground of morality and slave labour is to be con sidered an argument now, that you can continue to keep up in favour of the colonies the differential scale of duties—a'tax which pressed so heavy on the country.—( Hear, hear.) Ido not think that those parties who, during the pre sent session of Parliament, have favoured protection to the agricultural interests, if they oppose the alteration in these differential duties, could give a satisfactory account of it to their constituents.—( Hear, hear.) It might have been well for them to have dune so, had their plan for pre vent ng the abolition of the protection to the landed interest succeded, but it had not done so; this they could not say, and therefore it would be better that they should go before their constituents and say that the time for the abrogation of all these protection duties had arrived. I believe that it will not be considered satisfactory for them to say, we have been unsuccessful in the support of our principle, or the op posite opinion has prevailed, yet we will so contend that the co lonial produce should still cortinue dear to the farmer, and that the labourers be employs shall continue to pay a high price for al the colonial produce he consumes. 1 will beg leave to refer to another subject, because it has reference to another year. The Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his statement lately made to the House, drew a flattering prospect of the financial condition of the present year, but it was impossible not to observe that with regard to the future year his statement was not of so consolatory a description. The Right Hon. Gentleman's estimate for the next half-year, is 21,650,000/. ; out of this sum the China money is to be de ducted (700,000/.), and the estimate therefore for the expenses of the United Kingdom, is calculated at 20,950,000/. The expenditure tha Right Honourable Gentle man estimates at 50,873,0001., but if we take away from that expenditure 200,0001., which may be considered an expense of a temporary nature, it leaves an amount of 50,673,0001. But then we must add certain ex. penses which the Right Hon. Baronet has not added. There is the Irish constabulary, of which the expenses for the half /ear is only taken. We must add for this item to next half year's account 175,0001. ; we must.also add for extraordinary services 283,0001.; for school and medical attendants on poor-law unions 61.5001. ; half-year's expenses for prosecutions in Great Bri tain, 60,0001., and for Ireland, 9,0001., making alto gether an amount of 62,850,0001. I should, therefore, state the future permanent expenditure of the country, according to the Right Honourable Gentleman's esti mate, at 51,302,0401., and the permanent income at 50,950,000, thus leaving a deficiency for the years 1847, .INB, of 352,040/. Now when there is a prospect like that made out for us by the Right Hon. Gentleman, it seems to us expedik nt that an endeavour shall be made to obtain an increase of income, at the same time that no augmentation of burdens shall be placed upon the people. The plan which I have to propose, supposing that there were 240,000 tons of sugar, for the produce of the West and East Indies and the Mauritius, would give a return of three millions three hundred and sixty thousand pounds. I stated that it might be expected that 20,000 tons of free labour sugar might arrive in the course of the present year. With regard to other sugars no very great supply might be expected, owing to the examination clause.—( Hear. ) The greater part of the supply of foreign sugar at present in warehouse has been brought here in American ships, which is therefore inadmissible in this country by reason of the Naviga tion Act. Now, Sir, I should think it very presumptuous in us, for a mere emergency, to propose an alteration in the navigation laws ; for I consider any question arising as to them ought to be matter for grave and serious consideration, that there might be a permanent change in them, if change be by auy means required. 'fhe consequence will be, that a small proportion of sugar will be admissible. I have taken great pains to inquire, and I find that eight or ten thousand tons at most of foreign sugar. Mr. G 0 U 1.131171 N —Warehouse sugar ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Of foreign warehouse sugar would be admissible by the present change, but I think we may take the whole of what would be admitted of foreign sugar at 20,000 tons, 10,000 more for slave• grown sugar, and 10,000 of other sugar, making in all 40,000 tons, which at 211. would give 840,0001. I think in this statement I have taken the foreign sugar at the very lowest estimate ; but looking on it as a question of revenue, I consider that it would return 4,200,0001. Now the revenue derived by the plan of the Right lion, Gentleman was 3,475,000/. So, therefore, the plan which I propose will give an increase of 725,C00/., which will turn the account in our favour, and show a surplus.—( Hear.) I have now stated generally to the House what is the plan proposed by her Majesty's Government with reference to the sugar duties ; and I should add that I louk upon this plan as one which, so far as the principle is con cerned, is to be a permanent settlement of those duties.— ( Hear, hear.) I shall therefore propose, if those duties are carried into Committee, to found upon them a Bill in which I shal make the sugar duties permanent, and not leave the ques tion to be debated year after year. Much, Sir, as the West Ind , a interest may feel themselves aggrieved by the change which takes away this prohibition, I think the settlement of a question which has been to them a source of so much anxiety, and which has been so repeatedly a matter of debate, will be in a great degree a com pensation for that change. I do not propose to vary in any respect that constitutional practice of leaving a large amount of revenue dependent upon the yearly vote of the House of Com mons, and I shall propose, therefore, some other source of re venue, which I shall state to the House before these resolutions went.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. G. BERKELEY said he should not beprepared to sup port the Government unless they made some arrangement for supplying the colonies with labour. He for one was not averse to the colonies entering into competition with the foreigner, but first let them be placed in the position of the foreigner with regard to the supply of labour.—( Hear, hear.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL made an observation which did not reach the gallery. Mr. G. BERKELEY continued—Well then, if the Noble Lord was prepared to do his best for supplying the colonies with labour, he should have no difficulty in supporting the proposed change.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. MOFFATT said he wished, with the permission of the Committee, to ask the Noble Lord three questions. First, whether it was his intention to keep up the difference between Muscovado and clayed sugar. Secondly, whether he intended to keep up the existing duty on refined sugar ; and thirdly, whether he intended to make any change in respect of double refined sugars.—( Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with regard to the first question, he thought the distinction ought not to be kept up, but until he had obtained further informa tion on the subject he could not promise a change. With re gard to the second question, it was intended to keep up the duty • but with regard to the third, the same c h ange wou ld b e extended to double refined as was proposed to be applied to other sugars.---( Hear, hear.) Mr. P. M. STEWART urged upon the Government the necessity of doing away with the excise duty on rum altoge ther. A duty of Is. would still keep it out of Scotland and Ireland, and it would depend upon the manner in which the Noble Lord dealt with this article whether those who were in terested in the colonies would go along with him in his change or not.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BERNAL said he had never been able to learn whether the law imposed any restrictions on the use of sugar in breweries ; and he would, therefore, now give notice of his in tention to enter upon this subject on some future occasion. Mr. BERKELEY regretted that the Noble Lord had not the power to make free trade more palatable to him. Mr. EW ART would have preferred a more speedy settle ment of this question than that proposed by the Noble Lord. He did not see why any distinction should have been imposed on the importation of molasses. He hoped to see the time when the people of this country would be in the enjoyment of cheap sugar, and cheap food of every kind. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied to the remarks of Mr. Stewart. He said that the tax on the im portation of rum was not imposed merely for the sake of re venue; it was imposed principally with the view of admitting rum and British spirits to be consumed t. n the same terms. In reply to Mr. HOPE, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the yearly contracts fer wine, to which he had alluded in his explanation, would be sanctioned in Asia, Africa, and everywhere else. Mr. BAILEY regretted that the settlement of this great question had been delayed until so late a period of the session. when it was well known that many of the members had left London. Mr. HUME would rather see the House sit much longer than usual than see the settlement of a question of such vast importance delayed a day longer. He hoped that the proposals of the Noble Lord would be adopted by the House, but he at the same time must say that the laws at present existing as to the uqe of sugar in breweries were most absurd, and he hoped that the Noble Lord would embody a reform on that sub:eet in his present comprehensive plan. He entirely approved of the Noble Lord's intention to abolish, if possible, the anomaly at present existing as to sanctioning the admission of some slave and free produce, whilst on that of sugar there were differential or protective duties, which, as had been truly said, did not benefit the country. When the question of the sugar duties had been settled to the satisfaction of the Noble Lord, he (Mr. Hume) considered that this session might terminate, leaving an impression on the minds of the House that it was the greatest session within their memory. Mr. HENLEY condemned the proposal of the Noble Lords' plan as a most unjust one, and saidthA if it was carried out we should have free -trade not only in corn but in everything e l se .—( Laughter.) Mr. RICARDO hoped that the equalisation of the sugar duties would not be delayed for five years, and if the Noble Lord persisted in proposing the resolutions as they at present stood, he should feel it his duty on Friday next to propose a., amendment to limit the period of equalisation. Mr. WAKLEY replied to some remarks that had fallen from the Nob!e Lord, the member for Lynn (Lord G. Ben tinck) as to protection, and contended that the principle of protection on which that Noble Lord had se eloquently dwelt, bad led to the most ruinous consequences. He had not for gotten the observations which had been made a fe s years since in that House, upon the introduction of the Hid Coolies into the West Indies. The House should paus.t before they passed his measure; a considerable quantity of labourers were to be introduced into the West Indies, to break down the claims of those unfortunate beings who were now employed there. He hoped, therefore, that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would recon sider this part of his proposition, and protect these unfortunate labourers from the merciless, cold-blooded specu lators who traded in human flesh, and who kidnapped the un fortunate Hill Coolies for the purpose of importing them into the West Indies, in order to beat down the prices of the libe rated negroes. The House would not do its duty if they did not oppose this part of the project. Sir H. INGLIS said that he must remind the House that they were not pledged at all to the merits of the measure, but at a future time they would express their opinions on the subject, Sir DE LACY EVANS eontended that the term" un are come to on the Bill, which shall be made a yearly income, and for which the Minister of the Crown shall every year ask the Parliament. I know some persons will say that by this plan we are again destroying that principle of protection which is due to the colonies, and estranging the affections and loyalty of the people. I consider, Sir, that the time is come, when with reference to this subject von must adopt an altered policy, and I think an improved policy. It was the habit of this and other countries to provide they should have a jealous mono• poly of the commerce and the productions of the colonies, and that the colonies should be obliged to take the exclusive productions and manufactures of the mother country. I believe no country was more jealous in this respect than Spain. Spain had a vast colonial em pire, and vet at the end of a century and a half after she had'acquired that empire, we find Sir Robert Wal pole stating to this House, upon the question of Spanish trade with Spanish America and the Spanish West Indies, that the greater part of the goods sought to be introduced to Europe would belong not • to Spaniards, but to foreign countries. Such, Sir, was the result of a rigid and exclusive system, without the energy and freedom of a commercial empire. My belief is, _that if you support the proposition of the Government, that the colonies will gain, and not suffer, by this great change in your policy. I believe that the cultivation of sugar itself will be improved to a great extent—( Hear, hear) —when the colonists know that they must compete in the markets of the mother country with the productions of other countries.—( Cheers.) I believe that they will derive great energy from being allowed to seek where they like for the cheapest products of the other countries of the globe. And, "ir, recollect that you do not part with that great advantage—that neither in this country should we ever impose differential duties against the colonies, nor should the co lonies impose differential duties as against us. It is a commerce se cure in war as well as inpeace a commerce which is not exposed to the danger of conflicting tariffs, but which is regulated solely by a view of what is for the benefit of all. The colonists derive, I think, great advantage in being connected with this country, having the advantage of all the skill and the accumulated capital of this company and this empire has an immense advantage in the loyalty, the power and the assistance of the colonists. But these colonists must hereafter not exist on the limited and restricted system of former days that limited and restricted system must be acknowledged to be erroneous. Our principles must be altered. I believe that both the mother country and the colonies would flourish all the more for the abolition of useless restrictions—that after some period of mur muring, perhaps, its advantage will be acknowledged ; but in this country, and in the magnificent possessions which belong to us, it will be acknowledged that we have hitherto been mistaken in the value of the policy which has been adopted, and an affection will be all the stronger when neither is subject to re strictions, except those imposed upon the other.--( Hear, hear.) When the colonies are neither obliged to submit to some restriction for some supposed bene fit to the mother country. nor the mother country deprived of the benefit of some of the choicest pro ductions of the globe for some interests to be favoured at the expense of an important policy. I trust the colonial empire of this country is an empire of which every statesman of this country . must justly be proud—to which the people of this country justly attach the highest value. I trust that when this better system has been adopted, we shall see those colonies increase and flourish—that we shall be proud of them as our possessions, and enjoying the liberty which we have given them, and that both may flourish for long years together. Sir, I shall now only propose to the House a resolution for the continuance of the present duties, and lay on the table the resolution, the nature of which I have stated in Committee. I trust that these resolutions will hereafter be adopted, and that they will soon receive the sanction of Parliament; and should they be adopted, I think the present. Ministry, however short may be their tenure of office, will not have administered affairs without some utility to the country,—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord concluded by proposing a resolution fortunate" applied to the West Indian labourers by the Hon. Member for Finsbury was not appropriate, for they were the best paid of any class of workmen in the world. They were so well off indeed that they could not be got to work. He thought that the Noble Lord had acted wisely in limiting the term of equalisation of duties to five years. Lord G. BENTINCK, in answer to the Hon. Member for Finsbury, said, that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had no sympathy whatever with cold-blooded, merciless, or cruel speculators • and the labourers who would b e introduced into the West Indies would be amply protected. Mr. CHARM AN slid, that the Hill Coolies who had been formerly imported into the West Indies, had gone back to their native country with money in their pockets, and in every other respect they were both comfortable and 1 appy. Sir W. JAMES wished to know whether the Noble Lord at the head of the Government was prepared to lay upon the table of the House any papers tending to show that one shilling was a proper sum to be - considered as a differential duty bet Ween freensid alaneygrorn sulatt, i t - . Lord 8A NDOW aka ror some fursikeeiritarrnation on the question of slave-grown sugar, .before h. , could pronounce an opinion upon the proposed measure. From what he had heard, and what he at present knew of the subject, he thought the proposition was not at all calculated either to improve the revenue, or to benefit the consumer or the grower. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with reference to laying on the table of the House any return as to - the amount of differential duties, he did not think he could by any returns afford any information suf f iciently explicit for the Hon. Member (Sir W. Janes). T he Hon. Member also made some remarks in answer to L ord San don, the purport of which did not reach the gallery. thou Mr. P. BORTHWICK ght that hi g h er protee tion should be afforded to th e West In dian colonies. Lord J. RUSSELL sa id it was not th e i ntention of Govern ment to allow any labourer s to be imported i nto the West Indian colonies from any parteither in Africa or A sia, where there were not Br:ti.:11 settlements. This p recaution had been adopted by her Majesty ' s Government, in or d er to prevent a revival th ina etliti ny snio degree e n ofthe slave trade. H e was not inclined to draw b e tween slave and free_grown sugar. The CHAIRMAN then p ut the resolutio n , which was carried, and ordered to be reported on Wednesday next. sailors, and to the manner in which The House then resumed. SUPPLY. uteri in the British navy. There Mr. WARD then moved that the House go into a Corn mittee of Supply. there was complete protection Mr. WILLIAMS rose to draw the attention of the House judgmentof court-mar wet ooautshr courts-martial practice i appealof are flogging ro(nmsti t the The civilian, also, had every pro tection. He might a ppeal to the mercy of the Crown. against tial In viol t e h n e ce. anny But for the poor sailor there wand appeal either for mercy or against an nnjust judgment, he felt quite sure that if these circumstances were generally known the country would not permit such hardships to be inflict ed upon a body to whom they peculiarly looked for p rotectio n. The system of flogging in the navy was, he conside red, mos t dangerous, and which, if it were not altered, m i g ht bring serious consequmces upon the country. Formerly any commander could ti e u p a man an d inflict any punishment it was his will and pleasure to do. But what was th e p res ent system with regard to this infamous P unishment—th e most degrading that could he suffered by any man —and which had broken the hearts of men. Why, under the present system the lashes were conEned to forty-eight, which he was assured was equal to two hundred in the army. Many naval officers said more, and common sense points out that such must be the case. In the army the lashes were given with a small twine, boy ; b u t i t was otherw i se i n inflicted with a thickish cord, t w h ea e rs ship, gen era ll y t h e b oa t swa i n ; andtahn the navy n v ba e yv r y y th; e the often stoutestpb punishment i as man 1 1 1 le a d n r drummer m ii n m and he had been assured that after the first blow the blood streamed from every pore.—( Hear, h ear. ) H e did h o p e that the public would take up the protectioon o , • jthese pnfortnnate beings, wh o had neither just Th 4 .1.1.1 e subjects referred t o by t h e H on . an d O s N at M em b er u.lge or jury. —(Hear, hear. ) Hon. Gentlemen eermed to I would be duly attended to. make very merry on this question, but he would jint read to ' Mr. HUME deprecated the system of changing the members them som e extracis from a pamphlet which he held in his of the Board of Admiralty with the change of the Govern hand, in which it was stated, that for a most trivial fault it merit. He also deprecated the perpetual system of crying was customary to tie the sailor to a ma=y. either in cold or ' down our navy. lie really thought that discussions of this scorching weather, and leave him exposed for several hours • sort did the country very great uspery.—( Hear, hear.) —or oblige him to run up and down the rigging under a Lord INGESTRE considered that the Hon. and Gallant scorching sun—or condemn him to werr a wooden collar for Member had acted very properly in bringing the state of he days and nights together —or inflict upon him the brutal navy before the House. He ( Lord Ingestre) had often im. punishment of the lash ; and all this might be done pressed upon the House the necessity of appointing a Board of ' without even the formalities of a trial.—( dea r , hear.) Construction. He protested against the present system of All those acquainted cith the proceedings on board o f ship lavish expenditure on the part of the Admiralty. The men must know that nearly all the mutinies that had t a k en place in of-war that had been recently built were clearly disgraceful to the navy have had their origin in this practice cf flogging. those who were concerned in the construction of them. He But the important question they had to ask themselves was, had, on a former occasion, asked for a full report of the was this system of flogging necessary ? He had had commie character of the different men-of- war that had been nications on the subject with many officers in the navy, and built and sent out during the past few years. their general opinion was, that flogging, except in very extreme —( Hear hear.) That report hail ..Mot been produced. cases, was not, necessary. And if so—if there were cases in and he often called upon the Government to produce such a which flogging might be considered necessary—then he main- I report. He was of opinion that there should be more than one tained there ought to he a provision for a court martial to surveyor of the navy. He must certainly compliment the late adjudicate punishment. And who were the tarties who were Board on having appointed a Committee of Reference, which in the practice of resorting to flagging in the navy ? Not the he believed was a step in the right direction. But even that old and experienced officers, but those who were called mar- step was a mere instalment. He hoped the Board would Iwo tinets, who were exceedingly fastidious on the point of discip- teed in their present course of reform. They had also re line, and who perhaps did not well know what the duties of an establirbed the school of naval architecture ; that was another 4ld sailor were. It was well known that Nelson abhorred step in the right direetion.—( Hear, hear.) But the Govern. fl egging, and only resorted to it in extreme cases ; and that ment he hoped would find it to be expedient to reform that that great man, Napoleon, abolished flogging when he came school, by opening it to the best talent of the country. The sum into supreme power. The real n why, as stated by the Hon, that had been expanded in the construction of her Majesty a and Gallant Member (Sir Charles Napier), they had inferior yacht was perfectly frightful ; had there been a proper system seamen in the navy was this abominable practice of flogging. in operation, that would not have been the case. In this man- Out of 110S00 men in the United States navy anti merchant nor the country were constantly throwing away the money of service, not mire than 20,000 were ci: izens of America ; the public instead of applying it to more useful reforms and the greater number were Englishmen who hail been attracted a more efficient nary. to that service on account of the superior treatment they re- Admiral DUNDAS sa id th a t th e G overnment h a d now a ceived and the system adopted in th e B r i t i s h navy. He en- number of frigates and vessels better manned than they had treated the present Government calmly and dispassionately to ever been at any tune. consider this question, and afford a remedy ; especially he Admiral BO\VLES also made some statements to the same trusted that the principle of a court-martial would be adopted. effect. He hoped that redress would be afforded, so that be should Mr. M. GORE wished to call the attention of the Govern not have again to bring the question before the House. ment to the necessity of affording the means of education Mr. WARD would beg to remind the Hon. Member and and a home to the British sailor. the House that the present Admiralty had only come• into SUPPLY. office on Monday last, and therefore had not had time to con- The House then went into a Committee of Supply. Bider the question. He hoped, therefore, the point would On the motion of Mr. WARD, the sum of 394,7201- was not be pressed by the Hon. Member at present. It could not voted for the navy estimates. be denied, and, in fact, the Hon. Gentleman had himself ad- Captain PECHELL said that 267 letters had been sent in, mitted it, that it was impossible to keep large bodies of men in requesting retirement under the proposed regulations of the a fit state of discipline without punishment of some kind, and late Board. Those regulations had not been carried into effect, a hich would sometimes have to be of a severe character. He and he thought it but a matter of justice that .those letters (Mr. Ward) was glad to say that a great improvement had should be returned, otherwise they might prejudice their claims taken place in regard to the punishment of flogging within to active service, should these regulations not be carried into the last few years.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") In 1832, effect. out of 34,000, the cas e s of sev e r e punishment were 2,00.); in Mr. WARD thought that upon a future occasion the House 1845, out of 40,000 men, the eases were but 1,203.—( Hear, would have a more favourable opportunity for entering into the hear.) The lion. Member might rest assured that nothing details and merits of the question. would be left undone by the present Admiralty to do away Captain FITZ ROY made some remarks in explanation of with arbitrary and undue punishment, and to bring into opera- the late attempt to form a new system of retiring allowances for tion moral and elevating influences instead.—(Hear, hear.) the officers of the navy. Mr. HUME hoped they would, as far as possible, modify the The vote was then agreed to. rules and punishments in the navy, so that they might bar- A vote of 705,448/. was next proposed to provide for half monise more than they now did with the spirit of the age. pay officers, and the officers of-the royal marine. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said, it was quite impossible This vote was also agreed to. that the efficiency and discipline of th e navy could be preserved Sir R. H. INGLIS wished to bring forward his motion, of 1 without the power of i n fli c ti ng corporea l pun i s h ment in cases which he had given notice ,' the Museu m es ti ma t es . ' of misconduct on the part of the sailors, and he for one was Mr. HUME proposed that the chairman do report progress. therefore decideoly opposed to its abolition. In the event of It was then half-past twelve o'clock, and it would take him the punishment being unnecessarily severe, there was a court half an hour to explain his objection to the vote ; one ground of appeal for the sailor, but instances of severity seldom or of his complaint was, that the library was neglected ; another, never occurred, owing, as he contended, to the majority of the that the members of the committee did not attend to the re commanders being averse to the system of always having re- commendations of the Committee of that House ; there were course to corporeal punishment.—( Hear, hear.) Still, how- several other grounds of objection which he would not now ever, he was of opinion, that if they took the power from them, go into. there would be an end to the present efficiency and discipline The CHAIR3IAN, after some discussion between Sir H. In of the service.—( Hear, hear.) glis and Mr. Hume, then reported progress, and obtained Sir C. NAPIER suggested that, after the explanation they leave to sit again on Wednesday. had heard frcm the Gallent Admiral, the Hon. Member for The Tenants Compensation Ireland Bill went through Come Coventry ought not to persevere in his motion, hut he could mittee pro firma. not go so far as the Gallant Admiral in his admiration or The Wreck and Salvage Bill was postponed till Thursday estimation of corporeal punishment. What he found fault next. with in the system was this, that the articles of war gave the The Newfoundland Bill was postponed till Monday next. captain the power of inflicting the punishment without having CLERKS OF THE CROWN, &c. (IRELAND) BILL. recourse to a court-martial.—( Hear, hear.) This Bill was postponed to the same day. Admiral DUNDAS thought it would be almost impossible EXCLUSIVE PRIVILEGE OF TRADING ABOLITION to carry on the business of the navy without inflicting corporeal (IRELAND) BILL. punishment.—( Hear, hear.) This Bill was committed pro forma, for the purpose of in- Captain PECHELL was not opposed to continuing the troducing amendments. - power, but he certainly was an ad voca t e f or it s b e i ng use d i n a AMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. moderate manner, and only in extreme cases, when other This Bill was withdrawn. modes of punishment had failed.—(Hear, hear.) BOOKS AND ENGRAVINGS BILL. Mr. TRELAWNEY urged upon Government the necessity This Bill was read a second time. of increasing the pay of the sailors engaged in the navy. Some SUPPLY. people thought dread of the lash kept efficient seamen out of The report of the Complete on Supply was then brought up the service, but in his opinion it was the low pay, and not the and agreed to. lash. —( Herr. hear.) SHANNON NAVIGATION BILL. Lord INGESTRE said the commander of a ship in her Th is Bill was read a second time. Majesty's service had a good deal of responsibility on his COMMONS INCLOSURE (No. 2) Brt.L. shoulders, and it was indispensably necessary that he should On the motion that the House resolve itself into Committee be invested with the power of inflicting corporeal punishment on this Bill, where the exigencies of the case required it.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON said he thought that this Bill should He hoped that nothing would be done to destroy that good feel- not be proceeded with at so late an hour (One o'clock). ins which at present prevailed in the army and navy. Lord LINCOLN was very much opposed to it. - VAN DIEMEN'S LAND. The House, however, went into Committee on the Bill. The On the question that the Speaker do now leave the chair, clauses with some amendments were agreed to, and the report Mr. EWAR T moved " That it is expedient that the prat- ordered to be brought up on Wednesday next. tine of making Van Diemen's Land a general receptacle for ORDNANCE SURVEY BILL. convicts should cease, and that transportation be discontinued." This Bill was then read a third time and passed. The present system entailed the most awful consequences on PRISONS (IRELAND) BILL. the people of that country. At the present moment the con- This Bill was read a second time. vict population was about 34,000, whilst the free population FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL. was only 30,0J0. Now, the result was, that there was a most On the motion that this Bill be read a second time, fearful contamination, and the free people were not safe either Captain JONES gave notice of his intention to oppose it in 'n or out of doers. Many of the free people had openly said Committee. hat they would rather see their children die before their eyes The Bill,afterafiw? - bseryxtions, was read a second time. than see them continue to grow up amongst the convict po pulation. Now there was a system which might gradually remedy the evil, and that was this, that the convicts of this country should be imprisoned here for the terms to which they might be sentenced, and at the expiration conveyed away to some colony, where they might be free to follow those pro fessions to which they had been brought up. That system had been adopted as regarded Port Philip, and the results were most satisfactory ; the released convicts were gradually made honest and industrious. Instead of accumulating stir convicts into one spot, he contended that they should be punished here, and afterwards dispersed throughout our different colonies. The annals of our colonies loudly called upon us to bestir ourselves on this head ; they showed that our present system was productive of the most frightful results. 'f he system which he recommended was al ready adopted and approved of in France. He would forego going into this subject at any great length, in consequence of the late period of the session, as well as the chang e of th e Go vernment ; but he trusted, hat briefly as he had called the at tention of the Government to this subject, they would take it into their most serious consideration. The motion having been put, Sir GE( )RGE GREY admitted that this subject was one hich deserved the most earnest attention of the Government. Something was now in the course of being done to remove the evils of which the Hon. Gentleman had justly complained, and he hoped, that in the space of about two years, the good effects of those efforts would begin to manifest themselves. with regard to the second proposition, it could not be supposed that her Majesty's Government were in a position at present to give any answer upon the subject. In - theory he entirely agreed with the Hon. Member for Dumfries. The question of punishment was one of the most difficult with which a Government could deal. But the Hon. Member might rest assured that the subject would receive the best consideration of her Majesty's Government _ Lord H. VANE made a few remark!, which were perfectly inaudible in the gallery. Mr. HOPE said that an alteration had been made in the system of transportation by his Noble Friend ; religious im provement had been made among them ; several directions were sent out for the classification and assignment of the con victs. There were great difficulties attendant upon dealing with this complicated question, and the plan proposed by the Hon. Member for Dumfries was one which could not be con veniently carried out. Mr. HUME considered that to attempt reformation in this country would be to bring upon this country all the evils complained of in the settlements to which the convicts were now sent; he thought that education would be the most proper mode of removing and preventing crime. Mr. HAWES assured the House that the attention of her Majesty's Government should be directed to the subject of transportation to Van Diemen's Land. After a few remarks from Mr. Hope (in explanation), Mr. Hawes, and Mr. Ewart, the motion was withdrawn. THE NAVY. _ On the motion for going into a Committee of Supply, Sir C. NAPIER rose to put a question to the Admiralty, respecting the cost of building, repairing, and pulling down the vessels lately built. He thought if the Government had spent more money in manning the navy than in building ships, the navy would have been in a much more efficient position. Since 1843 he saw by a return from the Admiralty (and he was sorry to say these returns were not very correct), they had launched two ships of the line, six frigates, and fourteen steamers, and they had now on the stacks six 92-gun ships, five 84-gun ships, three 50-gun frigates, four 26-gun frigates, and a number of small vessels. With such an enormous navy on the water, what was the use of constructing these enormous ships, when, if they had a war, they could not man the half of them in three years? Whit the Government ought to do was to turn their attention to getting more seamen, and putting them on a proper foundation. They might as well say, that when they had a great many barracks and forts they had a fine army, as to boast of the number of their ships, and declare they had a fine navy. Seeing the number of ships that bad been laid down, he (Sir C. Napier) thought we were in a moat. unfortunate position. The reports relative to - the squadrons which had been sent to sea were extremely unfisvonsAble as far as the sea-going qualities of these ships were concerned. And yet we had an enormous number of ships on the stocks exactly of the same calibre and dimensions, and, as he expected, with the same faults. He found also that six 74-gun ships, which the late Board of Admiralty called block-ships, were some in the King's yards, aad some in merchants' yards, to be fitted with screws and to carry forty guns ; and he wished to know if it were prudent for any Board of Admiralty to de this to such an extent without having made a trial? If these block-ships did not succeed, what then would be the use of them? Casting his eye through the navy estimates, he ob served a sum of 18,000/. for repairs of steam gnat d-ships ; but he had no hesitation in saying that one of those ships would cost all the money that was put down for the repairs of the whole. The Retribution and Avenger would be perfect men• of-war, but after building paddle-box boats for them, the con structor came forward and said that they could not carry the boats, and they were therefore taken out and sent to store. He hoped that what he had directed attention to would induce his Hon. Friends at the hoard of Admiralty to pay a little more at tention to the sabject of construction. At present we were at an enormous expense, increasing the navy without having first ascertained whether the new ships would answer or net. He admitted that the late Government had done much for the sailor in the way of improving his food, but he wanted to know what that or any other Government had done towards manning the navy on an emergency. A good deal was done last session in passing the. Registration Bill, but it had defects, hr a e n he had d d obveee nt hopedthem. renderedthe eperowemsoepunli complete, esecretarythat Ge no w vd o e, ur afterli d i t n take ntt h the earlyhoui registrationstd eps call all the seamen of the country out by presses Immediately after a young man had served his apprenticeship on board of a mer. chantman, he should be taken on board one of her Majesty's ships, and having served a short while there, he should be allowed to return to the merchant service. If this system were adopted, the navy would always be efficient, while, on imrner gencies, it could be manned with skilful and experienced mariners without the least difficulty. ( Hear, hear.) He believed that nothing would so much raise the hopes of the seamen of this country as the establishment by the Board of Admiralty of a seaman's home at Plymouth, where their morals, health, and bellies would be provided for. Unless some one not a Member of the Admiralty were appointed to the building of the ships, he was sure things would always go wrong. The duties of the present head of that department were too numerous to allow him properly to discharge his duty, and involved in the end the useless expenditure of a large sum of money annually. He hoped that a proper Board of Con struction would be appointed, who should sit in London, and whose number should consist of three at le men. Those men would have the opportunity of considering all plans on subjects connected vi ith the navy shipbuilding. Having thanked the House for the attention which they had paid to him, the Hon. Gentleman concluded his observations. Mr. WARD hoped that the Hon, and Gallant Member would allow the House to go into a Committee of Supply. Mr. BRO'ffIERTON said there were some other Irish Bills, and as it was then half past one o'clock, he should move that the House do adjourn. THE MILITIA. Mr. F. MAULE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to sus pend fora limited time the making of lists and ballots for ale enrolment of the militia in the Unit, d Kingdom. The S. me RIGHT HON. GENTLEMAN also moved the ap pointment of a Select Committee to prepare the militia sche dules, which was agreed to. SUNDAY TRADING. Mr. HINDLEY having moved for leave to bring in a Bill to suppress Sunday trading, Mr. WARBURTON said he hail no notion that his Hon. Friend would have moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the better observance—( Laughter)—of the Sabbath at so late an hour, and as he was decidedly opposed to such a Bill, he should more the !louse do now adjourn. Mr. HINDLEY consented to withdraw his motion for the present. CORONERS' (IRELAND) BILL. The Lords' amendments to this Bill having been considered and adopted, The House adjourned at Two o'clock. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. PORTSMOUTH, SUNDAY.—The Royal Yacht, Victoria and Albert, is now ready for service, and on inspection we cannot grumble at the time she has occupied in refitting. She is in as perfect order as it is possible for any craft to appear in. Her decorations exhibit a display of the most refined taste, yet have comfort and convenience been most amply studied. A more beautiful vessel, or one more complete in all her ap pointments, there cannot be afloat, and it is but bare justice to Commander Crispin (who has made her what she is) to state that he well deserves his pest, and that honour, which we have no doubt will be conferred upon him for his thought ful consultation of his Sovereign's pleasure, comfort, and con venience—her Majesty's thanks. Both the royal yachts are going to Liverpool to attend upon the Prince Consort; the Fairy will convey the Court from Osborne to Gosport to-morrow on the return to London. On Thursday morning, about seven o'clock, as a man named James Bradford, seaman, was casting loose the frap ping of the jolly-boat on the starboard quarter of the Naiad, 46-gun frigate, in ordinary in this harbour, under the com mand of Lieut. J. W. Finch (186), the boat swung or heeled over, and the man fell over the bows into the water, at a time when the tide was running with unusual strength out of harbour, and the wind blowing nearly half a gale. The cry of " a man overboard " was instantly raised, when Lieu tenant Finch, who was in his cabin dressing at the time,. looking out, saw the man struggling in the tide, threw off what few garments encumbered him, and plunged through the port into the water, at which time Bradioad had sunk twice, and was going at a rapid rate from the ship, , being no swimmer. Mr. Finch, however followed, and per • severed in his humane endeavour to save the man's life, in which he happily succeeded, after being in the water a quar ter of an hour, and got his man (to all appearance dead) on board a victualling hoy-boat, which was going from the Clarence yard to the ship with a supply of water. The com mon remedies were applied, and the man is now perfectly recovered and doing duty on board his ship. Lieutenant Finch was much bruised and torn in plunging naked through the port-hole and clearing the side of his ship. This is not the first time Mr. Finch has similarly risked his own life to save that of his fellow -creatures, although he is married and has a young family looking up to him for support. He has seen considerable service in the navy, and especially during the last war under that distinguished Admiral Sir B. Hallowell Carew on the coast of Spain and Catalonia, while serving in the Fame, 74, and in the gun-boats manned by that ship during the siege of Tarragona. As the late Board of Admiralty promoted Lieutenant Tatham, of the Raleigh, to the rank of Commander, for saving the life of !a aearica!in who fell overboard at Chatham, a few.annnths since, we sincerely trust the nresent Board will marliNtLeir sense of the services and gallantry of LieutenankYi n e h A Mre warding him in a similar manner. • -Yr meow The court-martial orderedlat)assamble yesterday morning on board the Victory, to try Mr-Sanderson, of the Dasher, for absenting himself from duty without leave, was deferred until Tuesday morning. The Hampshire 'P&p aph states, that " Orders have been received to assemble a c our t- mart i a l on b oard the Victory, in this harbour, on the arrival of the America, 50, now on her way to Rngland from the Pacific, with an enormous freight, to try Captain the Hon. J. Gordon for leaving that station without orders. This order for a court-martial ema nated from the late Board of Admiralty. Captain Gordon is brother of the Noble Lord the' late Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The Daphne, 18, Captain Onslow, has been ordered by Admiral Sir G. Seymour to take this specie from Valparaiso to England." We believe it is ordered that quarter-masters are, after less than five years' service as such, to be allowed to retire ,,. upon 3s. per diem ; after upwards of five years, upon ss. after upwards of fifteen years, Ss. 6d.; after upwards of twenty years, upon Gs.; after more than twenty-live years,, upon '7s. ; and after above thirty years, upon Bs. I hese officers entitled to the four last-mentioned rates must have served ten years as quarter-master. After thirty years' ser vice the right of retirement is to be absolute. The paymasters and pursers of less than three years' standing, are, in future, to receive the same half-pay as at present ; after above five years' servic e , th ey w ill receive Gs. per diem; above ten years, Bs. ; above fifteen years, 10s. ; above twenty years, 135.; and above thirty years, 15s. The Rochester lighter sa il e d yesterday with stores for the eastern yards. APPOINTMENTS. Captains.--H. Stewart, C. 8., to be Acting Commodore Superintendent of Woolwich Dockyard, vice Captain Lord John Hay (appointed a Lord of the Admiralty), vice Captain Sir Francis Collier, C. 8., in command of the Channel squadron ; Sir W. 0. Pell, to be a Commissioner of Green wich Hospital. Commander. —W. N. Powell, to the Cherokee, steam-sloop, on the lakes of Canada. Lieutenants.— C. B. Strong, to the Recruit; G. W. Preedy, to the Trafalgar; J. AP:cell Boyd, to the Eurydice; B. G. howles, to the Avenger ; J. B. Willoughby, to the Cherokee ; J. Tyssen, to the Mohawk ; J. Harper, to the Minos. Master. —T. Brown (acting), to the Recruit. Surgeon.—C. Coffee, to the Recruit. Pay — masters and Pursers.--T. Goddard (1793), to the Vic• tong; G. H. L. Wise, to the Recruit. Mate.—R. H. llallowes, from the Excellent to the Con. test Assistant-Surgeons.—C. Grier, to the Cherokee ; J. Forbes, to the Mohawk. Second Master.—J. Fiddes, to the Avenger. Clerks in Charge.—J. C. Riccalton, to the Cherokee; T. S. Haward, to the Mohawk. Masters' Assistants.—P. E. Moss, to the Caledonia. Naval Cadet,--S. Babingtou, to the Avenger, e',AOT Ar , p!Antmontt. , ....l.ll - 04in&tit bEilt:,t'filWlW fill s lion, in command ; Lieutenant H. A. Pinnave, and Mr. 3. u , Pegus, a retired officer of Royal Marines, to be in commar_d of a station. Removals.—Lieutenaut J. Millet from Roselare to Arklow station ; Lieutenant Alexander from Carrickfergus to Cashel". dall ; Lieutenant Campbell, R.N., from Blackhead to Carrickfergus; Lieutenant Harris, R.N., from Wells to Palling station. COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen and Prince Albert, the Prince of Wales. Prince Alfred, the Princess Royal, the Princess Ali ce , the leant Princess, and the Prince of Leiningen, at tended by the Countess of Desart, the Dowager Lady Lvttelton, Colonel Bowles, Colonel Arbuthnot, and Le-ut.-Colonel Seymour left Osborne House, Isle of Wight, at ten minutes before two o'clock yesterday afternoon, crossed in the Fairy steam yacht to Gosport, and left by a special train for town. The august party proceeded from the terminus sr: Nine Elms, in four carriages and four, escorted by e prrty of Hussars, to Buckingham Palace, where her Majesty and her Royal Consort were received by Lady Caroline Cocks, Hon. Miss Devereux, the Lord Steward, the Lord Chamberlain, the Master of the Horse, the Groom of the Stole to Prince Albert, the Vice-Chame her Lin, Lbrd Byron, Lord George Lennox, Sir Henry Wheatley, Colonel Berkeley Drummond, and Captain Francis Seymour. The royal party arrived at the Palace at ten minutes before six o'clock. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, Lady Au gusta Bruce, Baroness de Speth, and the Hon. and Rev. C. Lesle Couttrnay joined the royal circle cc Buckingham Palace at dinner yesterday evening. The band of the Scots Fusilier Guards was in attend ance at the Palace during dinner. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Augusta Bruce and Sir George Couper, ar rived at Clarence House, St. James's, at one o'clock yesterday afternoon, from Frogmore House, Windsor. Her Royal Highness afterwards visited her Royal High ness the Duchess of Cambridge at Cambridge House, Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, and the Hereditary Grand Duke and Grant Duchess of Meeklenburgh Strelitz, honoured the Duke of Devonshire with their company at dinner yes terday, at his residence in Piccadilly. A deputation from the London Missionary Society, consisting of Mr. T. M. Coombs (chairman), Mr. F. Smith, Rev. Arthur Tidtnan, and the Rev. J. J. Free man (secretaries), had au interview with Viscount Pal merston yesterday, at the Foreign-office. The Marquis of Queensberry had an interview with Sir George Grey yesterday, at the Home-office. Mr. Labouchere had an interview with the Right Hun. Baronet. Mr. John Wood, chairman of the Excise, had an in terview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yester day, at his official residence in Downing street. Sir George Grey returned to town yesterday morning. Mr. and Lady Mary Abercromby left Farrance's Hotel yesterday for the seat of Lord Dunfermline, in Shetland. ADELPHI THEATRE. A one-act extravaganza anent Railways and Stags and Ibrahim Pacha was produced last evening at tile Adelphi with complete success. It is Entitled Abraham Parker, and Wright, albeit a sham Ibrahim, is the true Abraham. lie is a large shareholder in the Poole line ; he is informed that the Bill is thrown out, and that h 3 is ruined ; and disc using hims, if in a masquerade dross, he levants to Bristol. The worthy lieges of the metropolis of the west take Abraham Parker for Ibrahim Pacba. Deputations wait upon his Highness—the mayor and corporation speechify to him—ladies make love to him, and he becomes, much to his own annoyance, a regular Lion, " the observed of all observers," more paricularly of the police and tl.e aut'iorities; a most annoying situation for a gentleman whose personal safety requires that fur a while at least his name " Should rest in the shade." It is needless to say that the fun grows fast and furicus. The situations are all richly humourous, and Wright knows exactly how to make such situations tell. At length it is discovered that it is the Goole and not the Poole Bill that is thrown out, and the Poole shares are at a premium ; whereupon Young Egypt returns to the Stock Exchange, and Old Bristol remains stain quo. The laughter Wa 3 continuous ; from the rise of the curtain until the fall there was one unceasing roar, and therefore there can be no doubt but that Abraham. Parker will visit Bristol every evening for some time to. come. MUSICAL GOSSIP. llenri llerz, the distinguished pianist and celebrated composer, intends visiting America in the autumn. lie will start on the 25th of September from Liverpool, and will make a tour of the United States. Madame Per siani is engaged for two years by the impresario of the opera at Madrid. Molique states, in a letter from Stitt gard, dated July 9, that he proposes visiting London with his daughter (a clever pianist) early next season, There is some talk at her Majesty's Theatre of an en gagement of twelve nights with Carlotta Grisi, and a revival of the pas de quatre. This would be a politic step on the part of the management. Re port says that Mr. Lumley has purchased for England the right of performing the much talked of new opera of Rossini.—Musical World. Moriani has quitted Seville, where he had been performing for some time past, and is about to visit France ; but previous to his doing so, he will g:.ve several representations at Bar celona. Ole Bull, the " Norwegeian Paganini," is now at Marseilles, were he is giving a series of concerts to crowded audiences. Donizetti is still in France. his not haVirg yet returned to his native place in Italy is not owing to any physical inability to undertake so long u journey, but is the result of peculiar circumstances in no way connected with the state of his mental or phy sical he , dth. A new ballet has been produced at the Academic Royale dc Musique, called Betty. It is founded upon a supposed galanterid between Charles 11, and Betty, the daughter of the landlord of the Grand Admiral. The first appearance of Mdlle. Fouco created a great sensation among the habitut's of the opera, and she promises to beco:ne no unworthy rival of some of the first choregraphic artistes of the day.—Sunday Times. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. TATTERSALUS.—YESTERDAY. The business transacted yesterday was very limited, and may be dismissed with a brief notice. It was almost en tirely confined to the few favourites for the Goodwood Stakes, the other horses mentioned having been backed for such small sums as scacely to merit a quotation. Jonathan Wild was decidedly first favourite, 7 to 1 having been taken freely, while similar odds, although laid in several instances against The Hero were always offered. The St. Leger and Derby betting was almost nominal. GOODWOOD STAKES. 7 to 1 agst Mr. O'Brien's Jonathan Wild—taken 7to 1 agst Mr. J. Day's The Hero—t. and aft. off'ered 9 to 1 agst Lord G. Bentinck's Camera Obscura— taken 10 to 1 agst Mr. Irwin's Connaught Ranger— taken 20 to 1 agst Mr. Graville's Morilla filly 25 to 1 agst Mr. Griffiths's Newcourt 25 to 1 agst Sir J. B. Mill's Giantess 25 to 1 asst Mr. S. Herbert'a Petitioner 30 to 1 agst Capt. Harcourt's Druid 30 to 1 agst Mr. R. Boyce's Bold Archer 33 to 1 agst Mr. Parr's Teetotaller—taken 35 to 1 agst Sir G. Heathcote's Ahlairj GooDwooD cur. 4 to 1 agst Mr. O'Brien's Grimston—take 5 to 1 8 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Lothario. ST. LEGER. 5 to 1 on the Field 50 to 1 agst Mr. L. Fox's The Wrestler—taken 50 to 1 agst Mr. Creagli's Caurouch—taken 50 to 1 aget Lord Maidstone's Tom Tullock—taken Offers to take 20 to 1 about Fancy Boy. DERBY. 50 to 1 aget Lord G. Bentinck's Planet—taken 50 to I agst Lord Caledon's Cassandra colt—taken ROYAL lIARWICII YACHT CLUB REGATTA. ll.tawicit, SATURDAY.—This regatta commenced on Fri day, and was to have terminated on Saturday, but, owing U. the boisterous state of the weather, it blowing half a gale of wind from the south-west, and a heavy sea running, the cup presented by J. Attwood, Esq. , M.P., was not sailed f)r on Saturday. The regatta WAS under the management of J. 11/. Wilson, sq.; Vide-' Corn mo dore, W. Knight, Esq., Rear-Co m - E ti odore, and the sailing committee. The attendance on Friday, was vary numerous and respectable, and the matches came ott as follows :—A Piece of Plate, value 20 guineas, for yachts belonging to any measurement. \o cl x ub o , otfimaneyforirg,tennont tonnage. ex ceeding 13 tons, old m Entrance 1/. Name. Tons. Rigged. Owner. Ranger ... Wee Pet .. Quiz Phantom A good start was effected; the Quiz first slipping her moorings, each vessel hoisting topsails, except the Phantom. The Ranger quickly led the way, the Quiz lying second, Wee Pet third, and the Phantom last, continuing in this order till they rounded the Cork Light, when a squall came on and dis masted the Quiz and Phantom, leaving the Ranger leading, who beat her then only antagonist, the Wee Pet, by eight minutes. _ _ Xaup, value 30 guineas for yachts belonging to the Royal Harwich Yacht Club only, of any tonnage or rig. Time race. Thirty seconds per ton. 1/. 10s. Name. Tons. Rigged. Owners. Secret... Prima Donna... 25 Ino In this match the Ino laboured under great disadvantage, her mast being sprung. The Prima Donna took the lead closely followed by the Secret, the Ino third, and in this order they continued round the course the first time, when the Too gave up. In going over the course the second time the Secret gained on the Prima half a minute, the Prima Donna still leading, and passed the Committee's boat two minutes before the Secret, when she bore up in consequence of a gun being fired, which the master of the Prima Donna thought was fir the termination of the match. Tho Secret continued the course, and an objection was made to the Prima Donna receiving the prize, which will be entered into by the Committee. A purse of sovereigns for fishing-boats belonging to the port of Harwich. &c. Madcap Saucy Lass 2 Vesper 3 Turtle Robert 5 For this match each boat was crowded with sail, there being no restriction ; and the Madcap took the lead, which she kept all the way round, being closely pursued by the Turtle, till she carried away her topmast; the Saccy Lass then taking second place, when she also carried away her topmast, the Madcap rounding the station first by five minutes. Several rowing matches took place during the clay, snd the regatta dinner took place in the evening, at the Three Cups Hotel, which was well attended. ACCIDENT FROM PLACING FLOWER-POTS IN WIN• DOW'S-- On Saturday afternoon, as Henry Applebee, a cur rier, residing in Short-street, Drury-lane, was passing through Stanhope-street, Clare- market, his skull was fractured by a large flower-pot, that was blown down from a second foot window by the high wind. Lie is not expected to BUMP& ASP at() ° [O 5 on , thi s icsa Nat,. of 00 1 . 06 1 ' ow I I 4 . • r I