The Sun. — London, England, 1812-06-06 00:00:00

ImPEnt,a PAllLrAmtis! ROUSE OF LOiiiii-ERIDAY, JUNE 5. • o nl. • the que , 2,_ion for the second reading of the 44,1argeite Harbour Bill, - Adam was heard at some length, as Conn sel for the Petitioners vgainst the measure, and brought forward three witnesses in support of the allegations. Mr. Harrison was shortly heard in support of the Bill. .question was then 'put, and the Bill was r end a second time, without further discussion,. and ordered. to the consideration of a Com tuittep., 4.s On the motion of the Earl of CLA'RCARTY, the !sin for, ectending tke Power of Grand Juries in i -Ire land was read a second time. The PerceVal. Annuity Bill passed through a orttinittee of the whole liciuse, and was reported Irrithout any amer:lment. The Order for go i ng i n t o.a C omm itt ee on t h e 4 enants and Peasantry Bill was discharged, on the 1 31 ,.!'tion of E ar l' STANIIOVE, and renewed for the . riday following ' , On the question for the second reading of the lAtegeut's Canal ,Bill, some desultory conversation' t °, 1 , 8 , in which various Peers participated. • the 4 he Counsel were in attendance with repect to Q ill ; but as it appeared, that those Learned . ..sntlemen who were introduced to the bar, were 4 . 1 , 1 : for the Bill—this circumstance created a laugh, , ' 4l it was deemed unnecessary to hear them. C°lic Ma rqu i s of -LANSDOWNE expressed his d Pe, that the rights and properties of Indivi 2als, auemor especially what related to th e 7 .- asure's tending to interfere With the supply of h at " . to a Vast portion of the metropolis, w ou ld tl !, d uly attend e d to in the Committee ;: if not, he `' s ted the H ou S e wou ld not su b sequentl y sanc tionh it., unless satisfaction was •received on th a t eilat. llte Bill was t h en read a second time, and or dered to the 'consideration 'of an out-door 'Com- Llitte e. . , . ATTEMPTS AT FORMItiG 2-_N ADMINZSTRATI9N. 01 8ci 'he routine business being transacted, a pause 7440 ay moments ensue d, when Ile Earl of Moult rose to. address the House th ' - ' ' • . . k a topic connected with the above subject., Its 7uliar importance, he said, was so great, and it' circumstances of ,the country, with respect to p l '‘' ; ere such, that he could not avoid shortly tres kVing Upon their Lordships. In the discussion' 'ch. bad casually taken place on.a,former even -4,1,, their Lordships must .recollect, that it was 1 ,. 1, With reference to the transaations then ad -I,,i'ted to, that dreadfUl animosities were said, to ;1 1 t-• He was induced to think it far from. iir.- o, l ' Ible that this phrase merely escaped from the i t '''ie Lord, notnow in his place, who had fiast p, e ,, cl ; 4 .= tinif - 1': at he attached do p trtieular iin t,'`at'ci,! to . the words:, He . was sorry, however, 1111', , t.,-aid, that in : some -degree, -. 4 least, ,ap 4e:Catic . ..la been made or this language, of a c c , Y . i n's - hieva. nature. It. bad even been mis kl4eivi, aa-pointi..a. - : -._-, Jo.: aigliest ci.o.rter i and t , ..''ic-1.. - of coursi; may have most mn-1 . . - hxvous 14, t , , ' , - ,'•- 'a - the publiz • miad. - It was with a : 41;,"' ' 1. -o ~s in him tau, to obviate or, . -4 ,p away . t 4"," !. 7 :' r or effect of that Kind, that he now ion 's t ' 1- : - Hai.:2•-.s their Lonisbips. From his per t,.l ii.aowledge of - that Illustrious Character, cf l l , 2 ,was now p,*.ced in the situation of the father . 1 1 1 g's countrVa from -, ,v11..t he.had recently seen of eli.he could coor.idaotly aver, that no quality of ti l e , l i:i., or :••,- :_ling approximating to it,. had i I - it - s : ex ~.I:i.e is that quarter. lie had . to . 1 1j ) '''); 7- 1 .q H the progress made in entleavon - - to fora! a Cab:aet, that Illustrious Person had ,: ve r F-ean , ,estcd to him any _si ng l e i af li v id ua l, no r 14)PosedtO make an selection wilatever : that be it, made' any reservation of a scat ; so he could ti 4, P.pon the other bai t ed,, th a t h e ir:var proposed q t.. exelasion of any indi - - - ilit'll wbatever ; nut k: ( t tile . faliest power had been given to proceed 41.'n tqe format ?ill'., of that Cabinet, for the aduii- i' t ‘ ', tl a-tie3i of the -Government • •of thit. Illustrious C,,'',_ . ° l l, 'and fur the service and ad vantage•of the a tit ' trlc• Having stated this point, which he was ~1 1" qY desircus of` doing, he wished at the pre 7 . Lt IttOnient. to say,n6 farther ; but in so express- L 11 ' own real sense as to tlle expressions lie klteferred t:), lie considered him Self, so far, as I .4 ( r , ing a duty.to the Country. .. t r : , c 'rd CaE.Nvutc observed, that if his Noble a;• `I bad confined himself to the single point of , 4 1 •; s tr alg the House, that in whatever may have ~,,,, in the course of the transaction to which he tic;`'"d that in the conduct Of these transac i4:: Whatever it May be, there was nothing , that aye 4 -any degree . be attributed to feelings of il)l.3any nal ani mos i ty, as ex istin g where ; that 14belief, the expressions used by a Noble Mar- Ot t , ", °w absent, were incidental, an d mere ly itt i l eping froth him ; that there - had been more or P t r'rtance attached to the wo r d s , th an th e y lin t r e d ; he should not have risen•to trouble thei r " shi N ti " Ps• For hls own part, he , could ingenu kitytY, and sincerely aver, that tro .. pCrsonai aiiini?- 1 . all been ch er ish e d b y hi m , an d on t h at po i nt 1 4 %tad content liiiiie:f ,with re-asserting, that ,-; 4 ' l Y part of l his c o nd uc t, or th a t o f hiSNoble V 4(P near him, no feeling of that kipd had the I t 3 l , ti _ ll uence. Whatever their - decision had been, ceonas. dittatedby What they regarded as' a true tlaf_ ti tutional principl e; an d by th e i r rea l sense o f thtruature of the proposition made to them, whe thq that vas right or wrong . H e ' was eiinficlemt , P 4 4. zl 1 0 man could trace in that coot uct.ilie least N a i, e 'e of any thing ;ike peronal Miimosity,. , 'k t i l i st any p erson w h o cou ld 'b y any possi bi l i ty ki t' °tight an object of it. ' They alike disclaimed lia % ,, w orthv so dishonourable a feeling, either as Ota; t a t e or public' Men, and still more so, 'as being , 4; 'Y 4nworthy to exist in.the minds of men to t) p si i t could be proposed, even for , a moment, fdticipate. in the administration of pnblic af ,tolartls.i.at this awful'' and momentous crisis of the e 1 1 „ 4 ,3'. It his Noble Friend had limited what .) " 'aid to that part of the Subject, he (Lord li t th " s o () old not haVe - said a single word this 4)7.-7-- t rit t , ' , gilt it would .be far more desirable net to !ja i , 4 t. all into these discussions, at the present Ili \,; tut he could" not - avid. that what t o L '°ble. Friend • had tated might . iypear te: him . e ~,, 'ullipletely true ;s vet, in an official,raper, it distirietly appeared to him, Ant, in that PaPti, his Royal Highness the Prince Regent had signified his intentions' Who the persons were that were to be appointed to certain offices, and-that four per sons were individually named for situations in the Cabinet. These appeared from the Paper to which he alluded ; and he thought it necessary to state so much, because, according to his_understauding the words, be conceived their meaning to be un equivocal; and this he thought to be a material point in the - consideration of that decision which he felt himself compelled to take, as referable tb the peculiar circumstansts, to the well-being s and to the safety of the eiintry. The Earl of MOIRA felt it necessary to say a few words, inconsequence of what had fallen from his Noble Friend ; at the same time he thought, under the circumstanees, it would be improper to enter into any detailed discussion of the subject at present. Their Lordships;hesaid, might be sen sible that it was imoossible 'they - could exercise just opinion upon the point,_ respecting which there were no facts before them. It would be also improper to agitate a point of that nature in the absence of the Noble Person, whose language was unfortunately the present subject of remark. He must say, that in his humble judsmentit was im possible that any one could have conducted those negociations. with more correctness, with a higher degree of honour, or a more delicate sense of pro priety than the Noble, Lord to whom it was en trusted. lie was well assured, that when their Lordships came to form a judgment on that con duct, it would be found that what he now said re specting it, was at least true. With regard to the particular point, he apprehended, as he had taken' the liberty to state on a former occasion, that there existed a considerable degree of misappre-. pension. Impressed as he was with this idea, he Waestill ,induced to hope, that as these obstacles or delays arose chiefly from that misapprehen sion, the negociatiory might be renewed with those prospects of success so, necessary and so much desired. Earl GREY declared, that, as had been advanced by his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville), he too should have abstained from offering a . single word upon the subject : at the present moment, if the statement made by his Noble Friend (Earl Moira) did not place him under the necessity of clearing themselves from any`misapprehension on this im portant point that may be entertained. He cer tainly wished, that no part should be agitated until the whole of this most important Subject could be fully discussed. But above all thhigS, he wished that they should stand clear upon this point in the opinion of the House and of the country. And if a statement were made directly adverse to his in terpretation-of what had been communicated, he certainly must feel it necessary to state to their _Lordships and the public, that ,he ,Consideren that 'communication in a totally different view from what had been conceived and stated by his Noble Friend._ He understood his Noble:Friend, that in the authorised eo!. - Iratinication made • from his Royal HighnesS t7.e Prance Regent Co his Noble (LortiGrencille) and hinist4, tact no p:ati eillar cruces were deSigncitect,if certain individu - and that the proposition came. to them untetteied by any previous stipulati He must lament,ou this occasion; the absence of the Noble Lord who was the 'channel'of this authorised etnumnicatin. 'ln a comthimication made not only , personally, but' distinctly iriwriting, it Was mpOssitile for him to un- Aerstand or interpret the Nnv - Jk ds Used in any other than the obvious wai. understanding of these words. To be clearly undtrstood, lie must beg leave to Say - , that i vas stated; first person ally, then in writing, h in this document it was expressly stated; that itoyal ill huess had-sig nified his_ pleasure that Lord Wellesiey should Conduct. the formation of the Government; that the Noble Marquis shduld‘be FirSt Lord of the Treasury, that Lords Moira and Oinning, were to be Members of the Cabinet ; that it w'as . probable a Cabinet formed on a large bais should consisfof twelve or ibirteen Members ;: that hiS Royal Highness the Prince Regent wished• Lord Grey and Lord, Grenville, should, on the part of their friends, recommend to his Royal Highness four Members of the Cabinet; .ifit were to . consist of twelVe, and five, if it were to , consist of thir- teen persons, to be 'appointed by his Royal High ness to fill_ such plaCes in the CoUncil, and that he left the selection of the names to Lord Grey and Lord Grenville, - without Ocception of any person al exclusion-whatever. That the Prince Regent left,to Lord Wellesley the selection of the names of persons now occupying situations lu the Conn or of other persons for the other situations. This was the proposition made to him and to his Noble Friend ; he trusted this would afford a suf- ficient proof that certain stipulations were pro posed, and they should hold themselves as notjus tified, if they hesitated to lay this statement before their Lordships and "the Country. And he had further to state, that this proposition met with a decided nerrative from himself and his Noble Friend. .it - had been proposed by the Noble Lord in a true spirit of conciliation; and with _a zeal to promote the object of hiS Royal liighness. ' Ills Noble Friend must allow him to, say, that, these cipressions were, distinctly' made, privately and personally, for,the purpose of removing all doubts —and they were subsequently confirmed in a let ter.from Lord Wellesley ; and it was, afterwards - stated, that'he - bad no authority to open any fur ther communication, either with his Noble Friend or himself--nor had any communication been since made to them from authority, or such - as they could take any notice Of. ,For the groUnds of their conduct so far, they could refer to their asnwer to the writteu, authorised proposal, which stated, that their deterthination could not be altered by any private convertations, though offered in the truest spirit of conciliation: thought it ne cessary to give this 'explanation, with respect to theh':.conduct in, this part of the transaction.; it certainly was forced Odin hion in the Viesent instance, as, after what:had' fallen from his Noble Friend, he felt it impossible to remain silent. The Earl of Mona again rose, and stated his • canvietion, that what Proceeded from his Noble Friends are, from misappreiension, and a totally • different conception of the'-meaning and spirit of the prOposition: • He could,' with the greatest' "truthassurc the House, that the paper adverted to, was *mica in the Spiiit of the utmost frankness, and with a design that it should be subsequently iliscassed; A statcrnenir of certain 'designations was.made, with a view.td, subsequent discussion. The proposal was made in that tone of temper ; and he would say,, nothing could be urged more in a true spirit' of conciliation ; even the general 'hearing of the paper pointed to the friends - of those Noble Lords to Whom it was addressed. He Would venture farther to 'assert, that the paper contain ed no stipulation of office for any one, save those whom the Noble Li:•rds .might have conceived fit ting for'Oflice. This and every other part of the subject was left Open for discussion. The . Noble Lord alluded'to might hive expressed himself very differently froth what he did to his Noble Friends, if every consideration in that paper was not to \ matter of ample diseusSion. - From what was ap parebt, he had a right to argue that sonic misap prehension at least existed. 'Nor did it appear, froth what had taken . place, that it was impossible to conceive a new 'course of proceeding, as fit to be adopted; and he entertained th e h o p e that even yet they were not precluded from explanation in that quarter where it was true more wished.' It was'admitted on all'hands, that a moment more Critical or more' arduous for the Ilriti s h E m pi re did not exist, nor one which ntore imperiously called for the Services of all public amen ; and they were 'equally bound to contribute, as far as' in them lay, to the safety: and' preservation of the coun try: • Lord EnsxrcE wined to think, that what was urged by his Noble rrien&i, was a matter of ques tion, and worthy of serious consideration. Still, iii liis view of the p . aper allnded to, he entertained a . similar opinion, as tq 'the construction of it lan guage, with that of his Noble Friends. lie was at the same time most codscious, that any propo sition in which the Noble Earl . Nvas concerned, must be fraught with the true spirit of conciliation, and dictated by the yuo:it zealous wishes for the service of his Royal Highness and the country., , • - The Marquis of P . ouoLis adverted to the cal and momentous situation of the country, as required the speedy ,formation of an extended and. vigorous Adininistratidn. As to the paper refer red to by the Noble - Earl, he thought it was al most impossible to put any other construction upon it than Ile hairdone. His conduct, ;the Noble Marquis thought, had been mbst satisrac torily explained ; and though lie may not be quite certain as to the propriety of further discussion the absence of Noble Marquis who had 'been so prominently referred t),' yet he thought, for the benefit of the country, and of all public men, that some clay should be 'fixed for a - disenssion Of the general subject. , • The Duke of ATHOL felt it 'X.:VOA ithpossible that in such times as the present, perßinial 'ani mosity could exist any Where. FOr his part, when the British Empire Was in danger, his heart and_ his fortune were at his country's coruniand. He: deprecated' all further discussion at present as of mischievous tendency; and lie trusted that his 'Royal HizhnesS the Prince . Regent, now acting for his `.ajesty, would be able' to corn' Aft Alministration adequate to . v the Goerninent of the Conntry. He never would evil at any thing 4 fthat was for the good of his country, the safety and welfare of which was his chief Ob ject. He knew Many of the Ncible Lords oppo-' site pdsseSsed great ability, yet the - re Were other:: equally capable of co-operating in the service of the Svite. He was no party-mail-for thirty years he had supported the Gthernment of the King.,'.whorn he considered as the best part of the Constitution. Many topics, WhiCh several 'may think proper fOr iminediate discussion; he thought should not be 'agitated until an Adininistration were formed. lie felt that Many Noble Lords acted upon public principle, but the present was not the proper time for' the discussion of those sub jects, which they seemed to think required a speedy consideration. Lord BORINT6DON begged leave to express his conviction, that the words used by the Noble Mai- quis, upon which so much stress was laid, were not used in the 'sense, or' applied in . the way, a Noble Earl seemed to think. The words were cropped from him Casually, and lie -believed inad vertently,,in the course of his speech, wi,thout any reference'to any particular individuals. That the Noble Marquis in the course of the negocia tions, felt some degree of prejudice on the part of some individuals, may not be improbable ; but he was convinced, from his knoWledge of the cha racter of the Noble:Marquis, that thefailtire of the negotiation was in no way attributable to him,. NO exertions, no conciliation, 'On his part, • were wanting ; and he 'was of opinion one cause may be, that his Noble Friend had undertaken it with too favourable an opinion of the probability. of its succe?s. Had he not betn so imprizsed,,the re snit, perhaps, would have been different. The Marqui3 of DOUGLAS shortly explained. The LORD CHANCELLOR shortly expressed his ermviction, that the interests of the country re quired the present discussion, should be put an end to. The Noble Lord who spoke last had af- forded him . great satisfaction in his assurance that that the Noble Marquis did not attribute personal animosity to any of the individuals in question and he expressed his hope, that in some stage of this business, the. Noble Marquis would , say, as 'much in his place. Their Lordships, he trusted, would feel with him,, that whether the subject, generally speaking, was or was not tit for dis cussion, it certainly was.not fit to pursue it in the abSence of that Noble Marquis, and he there fore had humbly to entreat the House that, for the present s at least, it might terminate. No further observations were made, and time greater part of the very numerous assemblage of Peers immediately retired. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. The Earl of LAUDERDALE, pursuant to his no tice, presented Bills 'for the temporary Relief of Insolvent Debtors in England and in Ireland.— These, his Lordship observed, Were exactly the save as the last Bills on a similar occasion. After a few words from Lords Mot RA and Hot- LAND; they were read a first time, and ordered to be printed. the Earl of HARROWBY presented his - promised Bill, respecting CleriCal Residence. The disorder which prevailed at the time prevented our distinctly hearing the title. The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be printed. • The House then adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JuNp. 5. Accounts from the COMlll:ssion.rs of Public Re- cords, and from the Inspector-Cicaeral ;3*i theLx ports. and Imports; were pre.sented.—Ordered tJ lie on the table. 'General GASCOIGNE gave notice that he would,, .on'Monday, move for, leave to amend the 1%.c.t, passed in the last-Session of Parliament, fe the bettor Improvement of Dublin Harbour. • On the Report of the Committee (Z Means, respecting the Customs of. Ireland biug brought up, - Sir JOIIN-NEWPORT said, that at an early pe riod' of the present state of the Government, he stated the House to be in a dilemMa how to act with respect to grants of the public money. Their making grants, under existing oireamstaice;,;; might be considered irregular, while their with . hording them, in .some in s t a n ces , m igh t be pro ductive of: public inconvenience. He could wish a line drawn to regulate the conduct oi: in such a situation. • It was not his inr. , ..y7ttf,--1. to impede the measure before the House ni its , pro- ) grass ) nor to oppoSe it till it arrived, at its last stage, long before Which,- he trusted, a regaler 'Administration would be formed. The Irish ens- • tom Acts of last Session did not expire till the Sta July, and as the measure proposed 'respecting , them; was not new, but' only went to continue the present dirties, and involved a question was not necessarily affected by a change. 'of -Mi nisters/be conceived no . . - inconvenience could arise, if some delay were made, before they came to discuss it in its last stage. -Mr. W. POLE, as the Right Ilona Baronet did not oppose theßeport of the Committee, was un der no necessity,of saying any thing at present on the subject; -bathe would nevertheless- take this opportunity of. stating ;-hat could be no oth er than 'satisfactory to tile House. The measure, as the Right Hon. Baronet had stated, was but a continuation of the present duties ; and not only might it be said that this was but a continuation of the present duties, but he had the satisfaction to state, that if he remained in office to tine end of the Session, he should have 110 additional du ties to move. . Mr. BASTARD Called the attention of the H ouse to the present situation of Government in the pre sent .perilous* and distressed state of the country. He wished to press it on the.Hou,se, that if the real situation of things were concealed from the Prince Regent by those.persons who were his-Mi nisters ; if he were_not told' by them that the dan gers.to which the country was exposed were in creasing - every hour, that things were sudered to remain in their present state, thatit was for them, the House of COmmons, to come forward and tell him the real situation of the country. He hoped the Hou,N; 'would riot suffer another day pass, without telling his• Royal Highness what was the situation of the country, and what, in such a tuation, was• necessary to be done. It was indif ferent to him by - what set of men the Government of the country was carried on, but at a crisis, and 4, under circumstances like the pi - esot, he hoped _ that House would not forget its duty: General GAstoioNE had only postponed' giving notice of an early motion oilthis: subject, because he bad expected it would be 'done by some other Hon. Member. He would be. willing to bring forward the motion he had to make that day, if the House would support him in it, or, if. that were objected to, he would give notice for to= morrow, or for the earliest day on which the House would sit; but, in order that they might be ena bled to form a judgment on the nature of his mo- tion, he would then, if permitted, read the Ad dress which it was n his intention to move to the House. The SPEAKER observed, the Honourable Mem ber must take some other opportunity of commu nicating his intentions to the House. The HouSe were at that 'time engaged in a particular pro ceeding:, General GAS . COIGKM then stated it to be his in tention to offer it to. the House'as soon as ti at bu siness was over. Mr. WORTLEY thought the conduct of the House ought to be firm, but not precipitate. The situation of the country was. such as to demand an explanation of the present state of its Govern ment but at the same time having heard that a` Noble Lord (Lord Moira) had thought it pro bable he might have something of importance to communicate on that clay, he was at present against any farther proceeding. lf, however, no Administration were formed on Monday, he should then thiuk-it would be necessary for the House again to interfere. • Sir. T. -TURTON 'loped the Holi. Gentleman would not bring forward his motion that day. In the present situation of the country, it was de sirable that 'an Administration should be formed. without delay. If, at'such a crisis, delays arose from the jarrings of private int e r es t s; h e thought it was time . for the. House to resolve on some step that would shew how far public' talcnts were public property. General.G.tscoiliNe stated ,it to be his inten tion to bring forward his ReSolution that day, unless it was the expressed wish of, the House that he should not do so. Mr. SAVORTLEY expressed ,EL wish that it might be postponed. - The Ilesolutions of the Report were then -:'agreed to._ ' 'The Irish Loan Bill was read a second ,time; and committed for Monday. ADMINISTRATION. General GASCOIGNR declared himself to' be at a loss to know whether or not it was the wish of the House that he should proceed—(N6, no, no I) In order that, their wish might be more distinctly expressed, he would read the Resolution he-wish ed.to propose:, it was—" That an address be presented to the Prince Regent, most humbly to submit, to his consideration, that their duty as /Councillors of the Sovereign, and as RepreSenta fives of the People, woula no longer suffer them (the House of Commons) to remain silent, as in the present situation of danger and of peril in which- the country was'p!aced, it became neces sary to desire, him (the Prince Regent) to form, Without delay, an efliciebt Administration." Some week 3 had passed since the wicked assassihatibit of the late Mr. Perceval, during whiclitne country had been without an Administration formed of re ~,~0