The Sun. — London, England, 1812-06-20 00:00:00

Which he 'was anxious 'never 'lose /t was from its being insisted upon, that the conduct Of the two ',•: able Lords, in . insisting thattlie House hold should be dismisSeil, was intended to humi ! Late the Prince, 'as they must have known that was the intention of the Household Officers to - resign, as that determination on their part had been communicated to the Right Honourable Gentleman near him. He (Mr. T.) was not per sonally concerned himself, but feeling at he did for the honour of the two Noble Lords; he thought he should act unworthily.by their,' hav • ing, as he believed, the Means of refutiu what had been advanced, if he had'not Made the state lnent he - had offered to the lionse, whiCh had .brought him in contact with the Right Hon.-Gen .iireman (Mr. Sheridan). 'He (Mr. T) then pro keeded to expl.uin the circumstances in Which the Noble :3r others were concerned, and-for Which • be had been called to an account. He being anxious Or information on 'the Subject had applied to his eight Hon. Friend (Mr. He had • -Ic!Plogised to him for so doing, and said he felt conSiderahly embarrassed What to believe; for he understood that one brother to the Noble Mar tinis (he did not understand it from, that brother himself, and that brother was 'not the Noble Lord opposite), had stated that his' brother resigAti - . Being anxious to know if this N.vas the fact, he (Mr. T.) had inquired of a 'third person if it was true, when lie was answer- It - May be so ;, but from 'a conversation I h,'lve had - with the other brother, should, tilink that it is not." In repeating this; he had intended to cast no imputation on any one, and was not conscious tha he had been guilty of any breach of private - confidence..l,he question he • bail put on Friday, the sth inst. was, whether or not he (Mr. S.) could tell if those resignations had taken place, which Ere was anxious tis ascertain ? The Right ilon. Gentleman (Mr. S.) had. said Dtany things on the subject of staking 'money, I "tif he (Mr. T.) had understood him (Mr. S.) to sit," I will bet 500 guineas there is no such th:ng in consideratiem," (as the resignation of the dousehold). The Right Hon!Gentleman denied LaVino: said so, and therefore, according to the 'praCti ce o f th a t, H o use, he must supposehimself , to be w ro ng. He - bad not understood him seri . Ously to propose a bet of 500 guineas; it would indeed have"been absurd to have proposed a bet of such 'magnitude to him (Mr. T.) ; but he had understood the Right HonoUrable Gentleman to • '., 4 Y in a cot-ninon way, "1 will bet 500 guineas tnere is no'suck thing. in. consideration,." If he (Mr. S., did not so, he (Mr. T.) 'had totally misunderstood him, and had therefore to apolo gize to several persons; but if he did' not say he Would bet five hundred guineas, - speaking of the ziOusehold, he Wished to knoW to what the pro used bet did refer, for that he had will he would et' 500 s, was adMittel. He was reminded of , the statement he had made respecting the sittia ton offered to him (Mr. S.) for his son. He (Mr. T.) Was certainlyready to bear witness that a most i'te'rative situation had been offered to hint, which Ur. T. Sheridan had very honourably decline ,-,ceepting, however convenient such an appoii• Pi:at would have been, without coosulting his t her, and the situation was refuse , ;. lie had been drawn oW frimi what he was saying. It ~ .p P e 're d his Right Hon. Friend had brought thi, ..lootion forward, Tor th,e purpose of most,listinet 1Y Inarkip.. , his disapprobation 'of the conduct of the two N b oble Lords (Lords Grenville and Grey), xn letting the late negociations go off, with respect to the dismissal of the Household., He (Mt. T.) Would say, that if the negociations should come Over again, that, knowing ,no more on the Roble than what had been known by the Lords, they would not be justified if they Were not to act as they had dime on the late oc casion. Ile denied that they could have consist ently acted otherwise. The t*o Noble LordS Could not with justice to those whom they repre- Sented, have accepted of power, without insisting on that power over t ol for which they lad contended, 'as itwas ; their anxious wish that he who formed the Administration should have the pOwel- of .discharging the Household; and therefore it was but frankness and fair play, to in , silt upon their being given up—and it was equally frank on the part of Lard Moira to reply as he 'did, that on public grotinds he would not con .dent to their being dismissed. PONSONBY stated the conversation which bad been alluded to to have arisen in a room, in :which he with many others was, when a rumour • ,was brought that a proposition from Lord Moira liad that morning beep rejected by Lord Gren rre, and that this came from his Right Him. iend. He had said this could not be-- 7 -and on seeing him, bad asked him if he had said that it was so ? The answer of the Right Hon. Gentle nrau was that he bad not said so. He (Mr. P.) ' t old him that he had not, because what they had tie Rio was not a fact ;, and he was coufident the *Light Hon. Gentleman would not state that to be G entleman which was not. The Right Honourable v entleman then went on to speak of some 'letters U'llich had been read on the subject the night bc- , , 'f're, among which he observed, Lord Moira l uought his letter should have been read. Tie • (`'lr P.) said he had not known that that was the Wish of the Noble Lord; but if he had known, that he did hot think that it would have been pro • per to read it with those which had been read, as Lt had been his wish to mention nothing but what has (Aida', to those to whom they we're read, and the letter of the Noble Lord coming, ,as it did at t hat time, from an unauthorised individual, offer lug e: , :..lanation, did not come under than descrip j°n• That letter not coming with authority from ' same high qUarter as the othejs, he (Mr. PO with not have felt himself justined•in putting it vith them. The Right Honourable Gentleman uhad,said that letter was a part of the . negotiation. Ar e , (Mr. P.)• had said it might be so, but if his, I . "le Friend wished the negotiation to be cim- In tlecl, he bad done well to write it. In this ° Pillion the Right Honourable .Gentleman , had .: 7ented to agree. It had been said by a Noble that the intention of, the Household to re _ '..gtt was so well known to a Right Honourable ‘4 entlemaa of their party (the Opposition), that it _ , Peared impossible they should not know of it. (Mr. P.) could say that he never heard, and ix a t ti- , e Right Hon: Gentleman had never pom 4.nicated it to Likil and he would say, that if the Noble Loras had cone poWtt. -*/;thont having the point conceded, he (Mr. P.) could not have concurred with them. 1.1!;. MARTIN (of C i rnlway) contended', that Ca tholic Emancipation from the present Administra:- tion w0t . 14 be as well received by the Catholics, as if it came from any other; and it was his opi nion, that if it were conceded, it. would tend :more to tranquiliie the Empire at large; coming from this, than if it came from any other Government. He deprecated the conduct of the two Noble Lords in insisting on the discharge of the Hoitsehold, as in itself-it was an affront, and persisted in, mark ed a disposition to comeintO power, by gaiuing a victory over the Prince. Mr. WHITAREAD had only to say, that while in the country he h ad'received a letter from the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. S.), Stating,that his presence in town mil. - ;ht do some good. He .(Mr. W.) had in consequence come to town, and then, for the firSt time in his life, he lnid an interview with Lord Moira, at his house. His Right Hon. Friend was there, and . Lord Erskine. He, had much admired the .condUcl of Lord Moira towards Lords' Grenville and Grey, Noblemen whom he so much honoured and admired, that the greatest pleasure and' happiness of his life was the very near and dear connection he had the felicity, to boast' with one or them. Lord Grey had communicated to him the substance of the negociations which' were. pending; in short, while he was in the country, Lord. Moira laid the papers before him which were now before the country. He (Mr. W.) observed, that the laSt letter from Lords Grenville, and 'Grey, was by no means a refusal to continue the negociations; andhe farther stated, that heothought they were right in declining any Personal communication which was not authorised. His Loriship o though he differed from him (Mr. Whitbread), had done him the honour, in deference to his opinion, to send to Carlton-house for authority. The House hold, nor the _persons composing it, were not mentioned when he was at Lord Moira's. .On the communication which he had mentioned be-. ing made to the Prir;ce, he (Mn,. W.) left town to Complete* that duty which had called him to the. country. *He. told Lord Moira tha‘i he should communicate what had passed to Lord Grey. It was then too late to go to Lord Grey's house, he therefore Wrote a short note to let him know what had occurred. While be (Mr, W.) was at Lord Moira's, the Right,' Hon. Gentleman' had appeared Most anxious to ,see Lords Grey and Grenville in power, and : filling the principal places in the Administration. had heard that his conduct was the same while lie (Mr. \V.) was in the country. He_ (Mr. W.) left town, as he had, stated, and on the Sunday 'following he received the news of the rupture of the negociation. On the subject of that rupture, he was,not called upon to give an. opinion—he should be silent. MT. SHERIDAN replied to the observations which had' been made in the course of the debate. The House, no doubt, would duly appreciate the honourable testimony which his -Hon. Friend (Mr. Whitbread)' had just borne to the WhOle of his conduct ; Which conduot had, As. Mr. W. stated,. been authorised by the Earl of Moira. _lt would be seen from what, had passed, that his cha, ratter was not that of an intriguing man, endea vouring to keep certalupersons from the .k.citiii nistration, but that, on the contrary, he had thought the negotiators acted a consistent part 5 that part had been an cater and anxious effort to the utmost of their power to produce that extend ed and efficient Adminisdation which the.eountry . was desirous of havini. Ile could not avoid ex pressing his indignation at the attempts which bad been made to injure his fame and reputation in the country,. by the &rat/Ali:in of repolkts as infa mous as they were false ; and he bad taken the earliest opportunity of coming down to the House to move for those papers which would effectually remove allinjurio is imprcisions against.hirri. The first intimation which lle had of the charges, was, on Thursday, and on FridaY he intended to move for the papers, but there being no House, came down on the Saturday; and gave notice of his intention. His Right "lon. Friend must have known that his real motive in making the, obserVa tions which he had made to him was the vindica tion of his .own honour and character, and not with any view of maligning the characters of the two Noble Lords. His motives, therefore, must have been misunderstood. , His Right Hcaour able Friend, surely, did not set. so little value upon character as not to be anxious, if his cha racter had been grossly attacked,'-to vindicate it from any foul aspersions which might be cast upon it. Was it then c.)ltraokalinary that he should be alive.to the value of characterthat he should not be extremely anxious not to suffer any stigma to remain ? Surely his, Right Hon. Friend did not hold public character so Cheap, as .not to be aware that it became necessary to disavow any improper or insidious interference on the, instant the knowledge of .suell hupotations. was conveyed to him—(hear, hear !) Instead. of his object be ing to traduce and malign the chariicters- of the two Noble Lords, lie had only in :view the Vindi cation of his own. He had, never said, nor did he believe, that their conduct had" net been-.the most honourable-4e kid given them hill . credit for the pnrity of their Motives—be felt the cessity which urged-one of the Noble Lords to redeem, by-his ansSfers, that pledge whioh be had ,given in another ; but the adherence to that pledge he at that time thought woihld lose him the esteem of the -country. With. re spect to the conversation which had passed be tween his Right Honourable Friend .and him, a great part. of the,House must have imagined, that after the declaration made by the Noble Lord (Lord Yarmouth) on Monday ,(whose illness and absence he night regretted), no con : -versationdiad actually taken place. What he had stated to his. _Right Hon. Friend, as to the resig nation of the Household, was, as he had already informed the House, recollecting that theirgoing out of office depended on 'a contingency, and so he had told his Right Hon. Friend, the communi cation was made to him (Mr. S.), not as the channel which , was•to convey the intelligence to the. Noble Lords, for the Noble Lord (Lord Yar mouth) knew that he (M 9 &) was one of the last persons to whom the authority for making such a communication would have been given.— The Noble Lord knew that he was not in the ha. bit of having a cointnnuication with. Lord7: - . Grey, much less with LOrtl Grenville. A mes sage of the nature -he would not have taken, for such 'a message would iri effect have. arnounted,to a mendce, or, in other words, it was converting the Household Officers into a Cabinet upon the oceiGion. • 'Was it afi, office proper that his Noble Friend Earl Moira' and himself should fill ? Was it right that the Noble T.;07:1 (Lord Yarthouth) should ask and expect that the Noble Earl 'and himself 'should stand for ten minutes at the plea.- sure ofthe Household Lords, as a species of cen , - tinels, watching the precise point of time ,when the ten minutes 'should expire, to carry the intel ligence to the two Noble Lords who were to form the new Cabinet ? The Right Hon. Gentleman trusted he had proved, in what he had stated, that it was an Unmanly and ungrateful mode 'of pro ceeding, to attempt to injure hiM in the estima tion of the country, by representing him in the Journal over which, his friends had the controul, as a person who was 'Playing an insidous game— as a person who; in order to 'obtain some private end, was 'endeavouring to prevent the accession to office of some of -his 'nearest and oldest con nections. Such conduct was' furthest . from his view—such conduct was alien to his heart ; in all his public -life, he had never sacrificed either his private or public feelings , to nn worthy objects., The House Would do him justice, in believing, that no base motive influenced his conduct; he had no interested vitr: Men who played a double part had some object to gain' What had he-gained ? Where could any man point at the places he- had obtained for his friends; the pensions be had bur= thened the country with, 'or the sinecures 'he had secured fo'rhimSelf ? Under these considerations, he hoped the House Would set - that it .7as neces sary he should vindicate, hiS'honourand -character, and that 'he had done' 50. Nothing could, have given him more satithetion than to have united his friends in the service of the country, so that in the moment Of• danger they might have pre sented a bold and fair front against the .coinm,on enemy. Lord CAWLEREAGII apprehended, :that as the Right ROB. Gentleman' nid mate the)notion with' a view to give-an explanation to some parts of his' conduct, and that explanation having been afford ed, he would not 'press it 'to a division. lie thought there had h,een quite enough of discuSSion upon it. . . 'rite Noble Lord 'observed, 'that he should have been divosed to accede to the. ma tion, if any, thing could thereby have been fur nished to lead to 'any practical benefit the Ri g ht HOn. Gentleman's character. disposa lag of tote motion; therefore, by a direct nega tive„ be was -anxious the House. should express . their opinion on the manner of bringing questions Of this iLiture before Parliament. Confidential' connnunicatiOn in respect to the formation of an Administration were not fit subjects for. discussion in Parliament, and, he booed, Would not receive its sanction. The present sUbject had gone the length of discussion, which', if tolerated on future occasions, might threaten the existence of the best interests of the country. .• Mr: SIMI:MAN was not dispostA to press tlis mbtiOn. It conveyed the strongest censure upon the charges against -him which it was possible to convey, for it Went to call for official documents, when, in fact, there were none to lay before the House. • • Sir .FRANCIS BURDETT rose, merely to observe with satisfaction, which he ,hadno doubt would be felt by the country, that every thing had been done by his Royal Highness the 'rinse Regent to carry into effect the wishes expressed in the Ad-' dress of the' Ist of May.. As to. those wishes, he was conyinced, that a change of nien, M i rithout a change •of measuks, , -*Citild not lead - to any ben& ficial result ; at. the 'same time, he thought the House. would not 'he doing 'amisS', if - they returned thanks to .his Royal Highness for his' conduct upon the trying occasion. , • Mr. hurcnmsoN was of opinion With the I-Ton. Bart. that, it Was a matter-of perfect indif ference into. whose hands the Administration was confided. Thus much he knew, that the expres sion of this House. on the Ist of May was not an. 7 swered by those now in power: He thought that bad ;faith, in some quarter , or oth4r, where he could not discover; had been kept towards the two Noble, Lozds. They had not been `treated fairly. The Motion was then put and negatived. On the motion'. of Lord BINNING, the Report of the Mail Coach, Exemption Bill was postponed till Tuesday. ADT. I / 4 , 1 llt A ',TY REGISTRAR'S BILL. Mr. H. MAurits7rose to , move that the . House should resolve itself into a ComMittee on the Bill for regulating.the Office of Registrar to the Court of Admhalty' s ; -in doing which he quoted some evidenCe to shew , that, the-money of the suitors remained compulsory in the handS of the'CoLf , :t. IVILLAM ScoTr oppoSed the motion. As far as the Bill (which went- to alter the whole Administration of the Co ml.): applied to the prtieular office., he troald .state the manner in which the suitors -money was applied: , = When money Was. paid into - Court, if both parties were agreed,, an order was made for ffinding the money; if 9ne'of the parties objected to the mo ney being placed in the funds, which was not xin , - frequently the case, the party desiring the invest ment might, upon giving properr . security .to the other, pal ty, do so. The ,Registrar upon the occasion receives into his hands, and pays out the money, for which he receives a fee o two-pence in the pound in each case, The 'Bill, instead of being received by the suitors as 'a boon, would be considered by them as an injury ; and . he should therefore move as an amendment, that the bill be committed on that six monThs. Sir S: ROMILLY supported the Bill; the Sora- CITOR-GENERAL opposed it; Mr. AVHITEREAD de fended the Bill ; Mr. WILBERFORCE approved of the principle of the measure, but wished the con sideration of it to be adjourned for a fortnight, and moved accordingly. Mr. MARTIN had no objection to the proposed .adjournment. Lord CASTLERFAGH, objecting to the principle of the Bill, opposed the adjourn ment, as did also Mr. CLAniu; and Mr. Ros E— . COCHRANE supported the measure: After a few further Qbservatious from Mr. Ornd the CIiANCEhLOR of the Ltf.;ii.e... 'QUER the liouse divided :-- Fm the Adjouinulttit Agefast it Majority —3l Mr the Amendment Against it . ri2l.iority .. , . . 65 . . -S8 The Bill is eonsecti:mtly lost. The Mot Act went through a committee, tile Report of wh:ch was re .ei'ved, and ordered to in taken into,further cousideration on a Tuesday. IRISH STAMP ACTS. Mr. W. POLE moved, that the ilouse should re solve itself into a Commis:the, to take these Acts into consideration ; his object was, as he had be fore stated, to propose the consolidation of the Irish Stamp Acts, a measure from which, in hiS opinion, considerable benefit would arise. ' Sir JOCIN NEWPORT said,. that -it was impos-. sible to understand complicated regulations of this kind, from the statement of any Honour able_ Member. It was absolutely necessary that 4hey should be printed, otherwise it Nv outd be impos sible for the House thoroughly to understand them. 'He disapproved of the practice of bringing for ward measures of this sort late in the Session, and then'proptising to pass diem without their being : printed. There were two othex Regulation Bills now in progress under similar eirounstances. • Mr. POLE, said, the Right Hon. Baronet labour eel under a considerable error respecting the two Bills Which he had mentioned. The Bill respect ing the Customs was brought in yester4y, arid read a first time, and was read a second time on this day. The Right Hon. Bart. was present when it was read, and never said one word about printing it, or he should not have objected to it. The Bill respecting the Excise was not yet brought in ; it was at the Bar, and when it was brougl:t in, he should certainly not oppose the printing of it; if the lion. Baronet . desired it. With regard to the present measure, it was his intention to pro pose- to have both the Schedule and the Bill printed. _ . _ _ _ - -Sir J. INEWPDRI' said, the Bill alluded to had beets. placed On the paper as the Irish Custortis ,Bill, and not as the Irish Custonis Regulation Bill. The House then resolved itself into a Committee, Mr. W. POLE said, it was not necessary for hiM to trouble:the Committee long- upon this sub , ject ; he should merely state, that great incon venience had arisen in consequence of thei,:egula tions respecting stamps being . contained in several acts of Parliament. He proposed to consolidate all these various acts of Parliament into one ge neral Act, and to direct the commissioners of tamps to print in distinct parts the regulations attaching to the different heads of Stamps. The only material alterations he proposed to make re• lifted to cards and dice, Which' had, hitherto been , under the Excise, and he now proposed to bring them under the Commissioners of Stamps. He ShoUld also suggest an alteration in the Advere tiSement Duty. At present the duty was in pro. portion to the iength of the advertisement, in 'creasing one shilling every ten lines ; he proposed thiit the duty shO nld -on-iu the slims" man-, ner that it :A-as in 'England, where the duty, was ' three shillings whether the alvertisemeut was long or short. The duty in Ireland, however, \ he intended to make 2s. 6d. instead of 3s. This regulation, he understood, was very much ap proved.of by the persons concerned in the trade. Sir JoHN NEWPORT said; that as the Right Hon. Oentleman vas regulating the Stamp-Office, he hoped he would put it upon abetter footing than . it was before; for when an order had been ,made, some time ago; for a return of the duty on the probate of wills,. the answer was, that the return could not be made. MI. IV: POLE said, that the Right ,Mon. Baro net, who was Chancellor of the ExcheqUer in 180., did attempt some regulations, but he cer tainly did leave this office in a very . slovenly state, and the gieatest exertions had been made since to pat. it on a ,better footing; and he hoped that when the 'Ugh< Hon. Baronet ,came into office again, he would find that a very great . improve, went had been made. ,Sir Joirw NEWPORT said, that it was not the business of the Chancellor of the li,xehequer to superintend, the. interior regulations of these:of fices : that day belonged to the Commissioners. The Resoltitions were 'agreed to. Mr. POLE rose to move to bring in .a Bill to re gulate the Butter Trade in Ireland, by putting tlyle whole of the trade, With respect to the packing of the butter, on the same footing that it was at Cork. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill brought in and'read a first time, Mr. W. POLE movedfor and obtained leave to bring in a Bill for regulating the Baking Tr6.de in Ireland,. He said it was hii i intaition, as this was a subject of great • cousf:quence, to move to have the Bill printed, and to let it stand. ever till next_ Session. The Bill was brought in and read a firstlinie. The other ' , orders of the day . were disposed of, and the House adjourned. Mostc.—The rooms in • Argyle=strpet were . °peva on Wednesday last; for the benefit of Kiss PATON, a very extraordinary child, from Scotland, whose performance at Mrs. Concert have .before'noticed. She is, we Understand, about nine 'years of age, In a duet fur the harp ,and piano -forte, on Wednesday; between her acid Sir GEORGE SMART, her skill on the former in strument was surprising, for fullness of tone, de licacy of touch, and brilliancy of execution.- displayed similar excellence with the same per former in a duet 'for the piano -forte, and sung, an I accompanied herself on the harp, in the.cele brated air of Nel cor'piu non me senli, with 1 - aria. , tions, in the style of CATALANI. Shp-also recited COLLINS'S ;Ode on the Passions, 'another poem. entitled TheFlpicers, and concluded with a poetical addrdsS to the,audience. She received throughout great applause, which she fully deserved. We cannot, however, help ialthilatin;;, that her talents are strained' too Much; and that at pr:?serit they should be wholly directed to the Harp and Piano forte, till time has strengthened her organs, and her mind is expanded and cultivated, and then, we doubt not that she will slew great variety of Rowers. The Concert was. led by WEicHstu..., and had the support of a good band, as 'well as the vocal exertions of Mr. and Mrs. Lacy.